HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rob Gordon <rgordon@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: Can Colorado discriminate against straights?
Originator: rgordon@cvxcs.cs.convex.com
Reply-To: rgordon@convex.COM (Rob Gordon)
Organization: CONVEX Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:29:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Nov10.205214.26096@athena.cs.uga.edu> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
:In article <1992Nov10.132745.44592@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> rminor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
:>A question of clarification:  Does the Colorado vote mean that I can
:>discriminate against people who are straight?  Could I as governor
:>announce that I will not hire any self-proclaimed or suspected
:>heterosexuals?  In other words, I can discriminate on the basis of
:>sexual orientation if I want and exclude heterosexuals since they are
:>no longer protected either?
:>
:>It looks to me like protection from discrimination does not give
:>special rights to gay and lesbian people, but that it protects
:>everyone from such discrimination on the basis of their sexual
:>orientation.
:>
:>Just a thought!
:
: valid thought.  You are right, the CO vote does mean that anybody
: can discriminate against anybody else on the basis of sexual 
: orientation.  Of course, the likelyhood of any largescale 
: discrimination of straights is fairly small, BUT it would be
: legal.
:

No, this is incorrect. The CO #2 specifically mentions "homosexual,
lesbian, or bisexual orientation." It does not use the vanilla
phrase "sexual orientation."


rob

Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: CO-2 Ammendment PASSES 8-(
Date: 06 Nov 92 20:55:19 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: alt

In article <1992Nov4.162958.4674@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE) writes:
>  Oh yea, as an ammendment to the constitution of the state of KKKolorado, 
>ammendment 2 cannot be declared unconstitutional.  Only the Supreme Court
>of the US. can do that, and that is considered VERY unlikely.

     Are you sure about that?  I thought that any federal court could
overturn it, not just the Supreme Court.

				-Phil

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: pjohnson@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Peter Johnson)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:34:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.170122.19258@athena.mit.edu> grisha@athena.mit.edu (Grigory Golberg) writes:
>I am sorry, but I mentioned that what I
>wrote is approximately what the Bible says. Now, I'd like to point out 
>that the very original Hebrew text has the same meaning.
>
>-Grigory Golberg

	You are attempting to compare two non-things, a logical fallacy.  

-- 
Peter Johnson	       "There are times, sir, when men of good conscience	
Independent Studies     cannot blindly follow orders." --Capt. Jean-Luc
University of Waterloo  Picard (Patrick Stewart) to Adm. Haftel, STAR TREK:
pjohnson@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca 		THE NEXT GENERATION, "The Offspring"
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: bruceg@access.digex.com (Bruce Garrett)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:57:52 GMT

 nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) bravely continues:

 > By the way, if you're going to talk about "the human species", it's
 > interesting to note that it's preservation is not entirely compatable
 > with homosexuality, no?

       We're a small fraction of the population...always have been, and
even in tolerant societies we always were.  You're a college boy, right?  You
know how to do a little >research<...uhm...?  Give us some examples of
societies where homosexuality was tolerated and the population declined
because of it.  Given the...ah...energy with which our straight counterparts
occupy themselves in sexual matters I'd say we could make up a good half to
three quarters the population and still not make a dent in the growth curve...

       Sorry Roger...the argument that if homosexuals were given equal rights
we'd find ourselves swimming in them and the human race would become extinct
just doesn't wash.  Unless of course...you just    BELIEVE.


-Bruce Garrett

Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: scottm@intime.intime.com (Scott Michel)
Subject: Re: CO-2 Ammendment PASSES 8-(
Organization: -- J/24 -- Racers Home for Programmers
Distribution: alt
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:13:32 GMT
	<1992Nov4.141446.20339@yang.earlham.edu>
	<92310.042345IO92142@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>

In article <92310.042345IO92142@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
IO92142@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:

   There was a neat sound bite on NPR today.  They were covering
   the Governor of Colorado's reaction to the passage of #9 and
   he said something like...

   "...I will fire any state employee who discrimintes on the
   basis of sexual preference..."

   I'm pretty sure he said "preference" :(, but his overall message
   kinda didn't make the passage of such a terrible bill
   feel so bad.

Hey, wait a moment. Doesn't the Constitution protect your right to
live your life the way you want to? Specifically, it allows you to
express your opinion, etc, etc, even though the majority of opinion in
the US doesn't agree with you. What does the Constition do that says
that peoples of alternative lifestyle preferences (whatever the PC
name du jour is) are in fact a minority? What about us WASPs? We
should be protected as an endangered species!  (:-) But you'd never
find us passing a law to protect ourselves as a minority, now would
you? (Yes, I'm 1/2 WASP, a victim's badge I wear with honor!)

Explain it to me. I'm actually interested.

   If anyone knows exactly what the Governor said please post it.

   And now my personal message to the voters in Oregon...

   *cups hands infront of mouth*
   "Hey, Oregon!  Thanks!!  Just defeat it when it comes up again with a
   wider margin!"


No problem. Glad to be of service. :-)




   James Gray                    "Family values is a cheap way out,
   io92142@maine.maine.edu        we all believe in family morals and
   University of Maine            values.  I'm got going to put down what
				  your doing and don't put me down for
				  what I'm trying to do."

				  - Toni Rumsey, Freemont Michigan

-scottm
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jmfuchs@unix.amherst.edu (JESSE MICHAEL FUCHS)
Subject: Gays using Gay-offensive terms
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:03:29 GMT


	Hi, I'm Jesse Fuchs, and I'm new to the net. Although I am heterosexual
(so far - after all, I'm not dead yet!) I am the co-chairman of the Amherst
College LBGA. Don't ask - my parents don't understand it either. 
	Anyway, one of the fun fun things I get to do is hold workshops on
homophobia for first-year of them had an interesting question; we had put up
a Gay Pride Banner on Coming-Out day, and everyone basically wrote their own 
stuff randomly on it. Some of the statements were on the order of "I'm a Dyke
and I'm proud," "Fags Unite!" and other stuff. (I'm having problems with the 
darn computer, if you didn't guess - the sentence a few lines up should say 
that we had a workshop for first-year students, and one of them had an 
interesting question.) Anyway...some stuff that didn't seem out of the ordinary
to me. However, he asked why it was okay for GLBs to use these terms, and 
wasn't it just hurting our own cause. 
	The first part I didn't have much trouble answering, to my own
intellectual satisfaction if not his (he was, admittedly, kind of a weiner.) 
	Basically, I just thought of the entire history of groups making fun
of themselves - Richard Pryorprobably said the word "nigger" more times than 
any redneck on earth, and I don't think anyone misunderstood what he meant or
were offended.
	The second part, however, I'm having some thoughts about. Any ideas
pro or con the use of normally derogatory terms by GLBs?

							-Jesse Fuch
From: andyg@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Andrew Gryc)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:00:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Fear.  Lots of fear.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality

Well, happily, measure 9 was defeated 56% to 44% (about--I don't remember
exact figures).  Initial results were much more positive (about 73% NO to 27%
YES) but that was because urban areas were able to return poll results first.  

It seems that we just squeaked by.  Of course, just because they didn't pass 
this one doesn't mean they won't stop trying (well, if we tweak this wording, 
we'll appeal to 2% more people...)

I can't say I'm happy about the whole situation--fundamentalists are running
a little too rampant for my likes...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew J. Gryc  | Nothing I do or say represents my company.  Unfortunately.
Hewlett-Packard |
Corvallis, OR   |

Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: I am weird
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:08:04 GMT

So, I am "fucking weird" for saying that you should look at the roots of  
discrimnation to fight it, and also for saying that the analogy left  
handed = homosexual was quite wrong.
Also, I talked about social perceptions.
And you said that I was "facking weidr" or a "toon".
Now, look at Colorado and think.

AAP
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: Can Colorado discriminate against straights?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:22:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.210806.19519@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.205214.26096@athena.cs.uga.edu> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
>|In article <1992Nov10.132745.44592@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> rminor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>|>It looks to me like protection from discrimination does not give
>|>special rights to gay and lesbian people, but that it protects
>|>everyone from such discrimination on the basis of their sexual
>|>orientation.
>
>| valid thought.  You are right, the CO vote does mean that anybody
>| can discriminate against anybody else on the basis of sexual 
>| orientation.
>
>That is completely incorrect.  Please read the amendment.

You are correct. Just re-read the amendment, I had misremembered it.
*sigh*.  Anyway, as the amendment is written, ONLY LGBs are effected
by the ammendment.  

Sorry for the mis-information.

later,

kraig.
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:11:14 GMT
Organization: Bradley University

In <1992Nov12.215551.18253@wam.umd.edu> aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>In article <1992Nov12.211544.17333@bradley.bradley.edu>  
>larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton) writes:
>> In <1992Nov12.202304.14752@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo  
>Pinkas) writes:
>> >In article <1992Nov12.193724.22309@tc.cornell.edu>  
>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>>    You are supposing a relationship between 'causes' and 'made them'.
>>    There is scant evidence of such a relationship as there is of 
>>    the 'nature' hypothesis.  
>>    As for your question, can you prove any differently?
>> 
>I am not claiming either way. I am just asking because it seems to be a  
>common argument. If you cannot show it either way, why using it?

   I focused on that bit of your logic to illustrate a mindset you already
   have.  Debate seems pointless.
>>  
>>    Many of those who voted No will understand, perhaps even join.
>>    You don't seem to understand that we are fighting for our rights
>>    and, in that fight, must sacrifice to win.  I give of a lot of my
>>    time and money to win these battles - and I live in Illinois.

>Must sacrify?
>Great. So, if someone looses his/her job because of your boycott, even if  
>s/he voted No, that person has to understand that s/he has to live on  
>poverty and, maybe, stop living as a human being, even if for a short  
>time, because of your rights. How about his/her rights?
>Interesting. What if they decide to sacrify your rights in order to  
>achieve some other goal?
>Now, boycotting Colorado from Illinois is simple. Why don't you move there  
>and then suffer the boycott?

   I have a vested interest in the boycott -- even from Illinois.  Do you
   not have a cause you believe in enough to make sacrafices?  I work
   3/4 time to allow for the time to work with PWAs and CrisisLine which
   is volunteer work.  Are you so void of compassion, so empty of commitment
   that a cause is worth whatever it takes to accomplish the
   longterm goals?
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: endora@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Kenneth McCamish)
Subject: Re: Gays using Gay-offensive terms
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:05:26 GMT

In article <Bx8H1u.DBy@unix.amherst.edu> jmfuchs@unix.amherst.edu (JESSE MICHAEL FUCHS) writes:
> ... we had put up
>a Gay Pride Banner on Coming-Out day, and everyone basically wrote their own 
>stuff randomly on it. Some of the statements were on the order of "I'm a Dyke
>and I'm proud," "Fags Unite!" and other stuff.  
> Anyway...some stuff that didn't seem out of the ordinary
>to me. However, he asked why it was okay for GLBs to use these terms, and 
>wasn't it just hurting our own cause. 
>	The first part I didn't have much trouble answering, to my own
>intellectual satisfaction if not his. 
>	Basically, I just thought of the entire history of groups making fun
>of themselves - Richard Pryorprobably said the word "nigger" more times than 
>any redneck on earth, and I don't think anyone misunderstood what he meant or
>were offended.
>	The second part, however, I'm having some thoughts about. Any ideas
>pro or con the use of normally derogatory terms by GLBs?
>
>							-Jesse Fuch


Jesse, I have thought about this a lot, myself.  I use the word "queer" and
claim that by using it, I take some of its sting away from those who use it
as a weapon.  However, a friend of mine, the president of *our* student
group, said that he hates the word no matter who says it.  I have to admit
that I can't stand the word "fag" no matter what and rarely utter it.  (I
think it's because of the connotations and the origin of the word.) Anyway,
I really don't know what the answer to your question is.  I think I just
like to call myself queer in situations where it shocks people and also
where it could make people think that the word has no power over me.  As
a consequence, I mind being called a fag, but don't mind as much when someone
calls me queer.  Wierd!


      *           -The very idea that my opinions might resemble those of
     ***           Purdue University frightens me.  Please don't even
    *****          think about it.

endora@sage.cc.purdue.edu -the patron witch of mothers-in-law

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-----_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-____-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"Blame not thyself; Cry         /    "Yes, we're all      /"I have to go to the
witch!  - Samantha Stevens     /  different! "           / bathroom, there's
                              /  "I'm not"  "Shh!"      / pees in there!" -
                             /                         / - Jeni Stein
_______---------_________--------_________----------_________--------________
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Love Thy Neighbor Rally (
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

LM> Remember not all churches and not all people who attend church are in favor of
LM>Oregon's Measure 9.  There are more gatherings to take a stand against hate and
LM>bigotry.  Please let others that may be interested know.

LM>#1.  Love Thy Neighbor Rally on Sunday 11/1 (2:00 pm) at Pioneer Courthouse
LM>Square, Downtown Portland.

LM>#2.  Prayer Vigil to defeat Measure 9 on Monday night 11/2 (7pm-7am) at
LM>Westgate Plaza, 3800 Cedar Hills Blvd., Beaverton, Oregon.

Is Christian becoming synonomus with bigotry?  What a sick joke!
I think in the USA freedom of speech goes a LOT too far in allowing
messages of hate to proliferate the way they do.  Here in Canada we
at least try to put a lid on that s..t!
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Go ahead! Do it! You can always apologise later.
                                                                                                      
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:23:16 GMT

In article <Nov11.212152.61564@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> doug@crevasse.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Doug Cripe) writes:

>I'm sure there are  
>many at CFV who would have welcomed him with open arms and tried to ease  
>his pain had he made an effort to contact them for help.

Open arms ... and latex gloves ... and surgical masks ... and,
undoubtedly, some handy-dandy legal writ.  They're so good at that,
after all.

>Moreover, please  
>don't refer to the people at CFV as "ilk."  Can't someone disagree with  
>you without you resorting to name-calling and insults?

Bastard.  All Amendment 2 means to you is "disagreement?"  Where the
fuck did you learn to read?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: citer@jetson.uh.edu (Sanders, Raymond L.)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Jesus was gay and John was his lover. (NOT!)
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:21:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BxKGBy.F3C@cmptrc.lonestar.org>, jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence) writes...
>In article <9NOV92.15554756@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu> smothers@nauvax.ucc.nau>>     Actually, in response to the previous post, I too have heard this

>Please, we don't want any co-dependents in this newsgroup. Let him bash.
>It takes time to learn that what we say actually hurts people. My
>question is: Can Christians give unconditional love to Homosexuals?
> 
Ray (citer@jetson.uh.edu)
And...can homosexuals give unconditional love to so called Christians?
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalisr Nightmare
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 00:50:24 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Nov2.215458.9034@athena.mit.edu> grisha@athena.mit.edu (Grigory Golberg) writes:

>So? By the way, what Bible actually says is 
>something to the effect of "thou shalt not lie
>with a man as with a woman; it is abomination."
>And this is not a human-made law, which could be
>called discrimination, these are the words of God.

Yeah, right.  Got any proof?

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
From: ULCREG@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (Ellen Greenblatt)
Subject:      Call for Nominations
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 10:14:42 EST
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Please excuse the cross-postings.  We're trying to reach as broad a base
as possible.
***********************************************************************
                      CALL FOR NOMINATIONS
     AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION GAY AND LESBIAN TASK FORCE
                   GAY AND LESBIAN BOOK AWARD

The Gay and Lesbian Task Force of the American Library Association is
issuing a call for nominations for its 1993 Gay/Lesbian Book Awards.
Awards are made for both literature (long and short fiction, poetry) and
nonfiction, and are given to books of exceptional merit relating to the
lesbian and gay experience.  To be eligible, a book must have been
published in calendar year 1992.  Awards are not limited to works issued
by American publishing firms:  books published outside the United States
are eligible.  As most non-English language titles cannot be read and
adequtely evaluated by all committee members, only titles in English
translation can be considered for these awards.

The awards have been given since 1971, making them the oldest gay and
lesbian awards in the United States. A committee made up of librarians
who are members of the ALA Gay and Lesbian Task Force decides each
year's winners from a list of nominations compiled throughout the year.
Any individual or group not affiliated with the publisher of the book
being nominted may submit nominations to the Chair of the Book Awards
Committee.  Please send nominations to:  Susan Hoffman, Reference
Librarian, 180 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
55455.  Fax transmissions may be sent to (612) 626-9353.  E-mail
nominations may be sent to either:  ulcreg@ubvm (BITNET) or
ulcreg@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Internet)  A short statement describing why
the book is being nominated must accompany the nomination.  Nominations
must be postmarked no later than December 31, 1992.  Award winners will
be announced in March 1993.

%%% overflow headers %%%
To: sappho <sappho@mc.lcs.mit.edu>, ILGA <ILGA@eng.ox.ac.uk>,
        GayNet <gaynet@gallifrey.kent.edu>, "soc.motss" <soc.motss.usenet>,
        "alt.politics.homosexuality" <alt.politics.homosexuality.usenet>,
        "Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual People of Color" <glbpoc@geri.ucs.dec.com>,
        sistah <sistah@geri.ucs.dec.com>, act-up <actup@world.std.com>,
        Lesbigay Scholars List <lw@andromeda.rutgers.edu>,
        Queer Nation <qn@queernet.org>
%%% end overflow headers %%%
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jessec@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: <None>
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:35:18 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana


   I just have to say-- some people on this newsgroup are doing a fine 
job... confronting and refuting the arguments of homophobes with eloquence 
and authority, where I would be likely as not reduced to mere angry, 
incoherent, frustrated babbling.  Particular examples of this are to be 
found in the recent posts of Mr. Mehl and M(s?r?) Entropy... Carry on the 
good work. :-)


   --Jesse.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics