HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: re: simple margin question
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:19:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.195648.10064@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu (Steve Meyers) writes:
>I'm considering getting a margin account. My first understanding was that  
>I'm allowed to buy (typically) 50% beyond my holdings (cash and stocks) in  
>the account. Then I heard that only certain stocks are "marginable", so I  
>could only go 50% beyond the value of these marginable stocks+cash. 
>
>Am I getting warmer?
>
>Does anyone have an opinion on margin accounts in general?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Steve

Different brokers handle this differently. Schwab didn't include some
stocks I owned with prices less than $5 to $10 in my margin value. So
I would presume that higher priced (regardless of volatility) stocks
are automatically included in margin value for Schwab margin accounts.

barry

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: Re: Where to turn when stock funds come down
Organization: TRW, INC.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:54:27 GMT

In article <BzEvF1.6HL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng) writes:
 
>What should I do if I sense (ha!) an eminant market crash?
				      ^^^^^^^ imminent, I hope
>Where should I move my growth funds investment to?  (I want to stay
>in mutual funds.)
>	4) Money Market fund and back in when the market bottoms out (Ha!)

This is so easy I almost hate to respond :-)

Obviously, you should go into the money market, preserve your capital,
and wait for a good buying opportunity.  This is called market timing in
the vernacular.  A lot of people claim it can't work.  But if your sense
is correct :-), then money market is appropriate.  
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Subject: Re: Body Shop (from "Don't Become Fixated
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:49:02 GMT

In article <BzD2Jo.80x@unccsun.uncc.edu>, yhari@uncc.edu (Yog Hari) writes:
> 
> In article 22043@cbnews.cb.att.com, lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib) writes:
> >In article <265@emtek.UUCP> werner@emtek.UUCP (Werner Ehlenberger) writes:
> >>> > >2. Body Shop (pink sheets)     Recent Price: 2 3/4
> >>> > >
> >>> > >retail stores in the U.S.  Traded on London Stock Exchange.
> >>> > 
> >>
> >>
> >>Is there any way to buy the stock in the US, if it is traded on the
> >>London Stock Exchange?
> >
> >  
> >I've always heard people say any full-service broker can buy foreign
> >stocks. I use Schwab, however, so I called them and they told me they don't
> >trade foreign stocks but that Body Shop is indeed traded
> >in the Pink Sheets. Current price is 2 7/8-3 1/8 and I was told they
> >require that you buy at least 500 shares. 
> >
> Ditto for my broker at A.G. Edwards.  The problem with these stocks is how do you follow them?
> 
> Yog.
> 
The body shop is listed in the Wall Street Journal under the London Exchange.
It is listed in 100's of a pound, so you have to convert it.

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: neal@sequent.com (Neal C. Wyse)
Subject: Re: Why is Borland downgraded?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 22:33:45 GMT

In article <4DiyVB7w161w@cdthq.UUCP> gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
>fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox) writes:

	[ stuff deleted ]

>cut it if the margin was 15%. Look at the salaries, benefits,
>and Bill Gates' new $35 million house; that's most of what 
>you're paying for when you buy Microsoft; I don't think Kahn
>has anywhere near that large a house (two 20-car garages is
>a little much....).

On one hand I can't fathom a 35 M$ house, but this is not what you are paying
for when you buy MSFT products (IMO).  Gates is rich off his stock holdings.
I don't know what his salary is (anyone with a prospectus?) but I doubt it
is far out of line.  From what I know of salaries from a few I know that work
there.  They are ok but not great.  It is the stock options they get that make
the difference.  From what I've seen also, they earn it (i.e., work very hard).
-- 
Neal C. Wyse	neal@sequent.com	(503) 578-9888
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: philba@microsoft.com (Phil Barrett)
Subject: IBM Breakup value?
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:17:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

I've seen several references to IBM trading below its book value
recently.  Does anyone have a sense of how that bookvalue is computed
(I know what bv is, I want to know IBM specifics).  Is the break up
value of IBM really reflected in this book value or is the book heavy
with leased mainframes (on an accelerating obscelesence curve)?  I've
heard people speculating on IBM breakup and have to think that a bunch
of little rotten companies wont do any better than a one big one.

By the way, their PC business is looking up with the intro of their
value-point series and they are reputed to have the largest captive
semiconductor fab capacity in the world so there may be a few gems in
there.  (bias warning, ref my organization) Their sw efforts do not
seem to be profitable given their sales level vs investment and clearly
the mainframe business is tanking big time.  What about their
communications areas? I'm unfamiliar with this stuff but people keep
holding that up as one of their shining lights -- true or not?
How about their workstation business, does anyone have some thoughts?

I think the most ominous point for them is their management's inability to
use layoffs.  They keep doing this incentive based approach that just pushes
the good people out the door and retains the loosers.  [If you were a looser,
would you take off to try your luck on the open job market?]  Until they
clear the deadwood out, the company will continue to flounder.  It is 
interesting to note that lexmark has appeared to have turned a corner and
shed its IBM mindset so there is hope for IBM.

The above is strictly my own opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of 
my managment, employer or cat.

Phil Barrett
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lcardali@encore.com (Louis Cardali)
Subject: Re: Could someone talk to me about Novell (NOVL-OTC)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:19:10 GMT

You should check out the Dec. 14, 1992 issue of
Information Week. In this magazine is an article
about Novell.

Here is an excerpt:
	"Roger Billings of Independence, Mo., claims
Novell stole his idea for server-based distributed computer
networks for its wildly successful NetWare product. His
patent infringement suit, filed a year ago against Novell
and BankAmerica Corp., a key Novell customer, demands
$220 million in royalties."

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pkedrosk@student.business.uwo.ca (Paul S. Kedrosky)
Subject: Re: IBM Breakup value?
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:04:46 GMT

lcornel@eis.calstate.edu (Louis Cornelio) writes:

> I was wondering myself just what bottom price we could expect for IBM. I
> suppose a the inevitable dividend cut will further lower the price, but at
> what point is it perhaps a bargain? (assuming a company losing BILLIONS
> --- really? ---) can ever be said to be a bargain. Still...
> 

Most analysts seems to think (and this may be a complete oxymoron
given what analysts were saying about IBM as recently as last summer)
that IBM's book value is around the $51 mark. The implication is that
it's not realistic for the share price to stay below that mark for any
extended period of time. Nevertheless, it is important to note that the
book value of a stock only truly acts as floor to the extent that it
is realistic to anticipate some form of liquidation of the underlying
assets at some point in the future. In IBM's case that may not be very
likely.

Paul


 __________________________________________________________________________
     Paul S. Kedrosky              __/ "In a certain village in La Mancha,
    pkedrosk@business.uwo.ca      __/ which I do not wish to name, there
   University of Western Ontario __/ lived not long ago a gentleman..."
  (519) 679-2111 x5174          __/
From: hacker@access.digex.com (Dark Hacker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: "Market efficiency" (Was Re: Rationality of the stock market (NOT!))
Date: 21 Dec 1992 06:08:37 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

>probably won't run away from you.  I say "probably" because there is a
>broker around here who thinks that IBM will be a better value when it
>is broken up into individual companies, sort of like the Baby Bells of
>yesteryear.  Wait and see.

Oh yes.... I forgot to mention.  There is talk on the street about
the possiblity of IBM being broken up into Baby Blues.  If this happens
(and its very possible because IBM is giving a lot of autonomy to its
13 divisons) then you can expect to see investors run away with the stock
when a breakup is announced and then probably prop the individual
stocks quite a bit beyond that.  Probably have the usual technical
corrections in there too.

This is all specualtion of course.  But it sort of makes sense doesn't
it?  The boys in the boardroom (are there any women in executive positions
at IBM?) aren't stupid.  And if they don't respond to the company's
problems with long-term solutions they'll get booted out of there by
the shareholders (yeah RIGHT Garth).

- Hacker
-- 
Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation
hacker@black-silicon.mclean.va.us

"Life itself is... COMPUTATION!"
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: etpeters@dal.mobil.com (E. T. Peterson(Eric))
Subject: Re: futures & options
Organization: Mobil Exploration & Producing Technical Center(MEPTEC), Dallas. 
Distribution: misc
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:28:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.4136.19309@dosgate>, "franz hrazdira" <franz.hrazdira@canrem.com> writes:
|> Hi,
|> 
|> Do we have any futures traders around here who would like to comment
|> on the use of options in place of stops when trading futures.
|> 
|> I would be interested in comments from people who have traded futures
|> & futures options for quite some time and have some understanding of
|> hedging strategies to limit the trading risk in various markets ...

I've traded futures and futures options for 6 years.  Buying a put to
protect a long futures position is a rather expensive way to get downside
protection.  You will now have to get a medium size up-move just to pay
for the put premium.  A stop is "free", but of course has the drawback that
you will be out of the market, and won't benefit if the market turns around
and goes back up.

A strategy I often use when I expect a medium up-move, but not a huge one,
is to place a stop at some level below my entry, and also sell an out-of-the
moeny call.  This offsets some of the loss if stopped out, and provides extra
income if the market moves up but not past the strike price.  You can actually
make money on the futures and the option.  Similar to covered call writing
on stocks.  The drawback: you don't make a huge amount if there is a huge move.

*********************************************************************
Eric Peterson                  The sooner you fall behind,
Research Geophysicist          the more time you'll have to catch up!
(214) 951-3251
etpeters@drsol1.dal.mobil.com
*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Sorry, my fault...
Keywords: IBM plunge
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 20:08:34 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

etpeters@dal.mobil.com (E. T. Peterson(Eric)) writes:

> In article <1992Dec16.034224.3595@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ghuntres@nyx.cs.du.ed
> |> I really want to appologize to everyone for todays plunge in IBM stock.
> |> It was all my fault.  I bought some on friday, so obviously it was 
> |> headed for the dumper.  'cheez, you'd think I'd learn after buying
> |> Westinghouse at 23 (down from 27) - currently at 12.
> 
> Thanks for being honest!  We forgive you.  But next tinme could you tell us
> before you buy a stock, so we can buy some puts and make a killing??

Really; between Huntress and the guy in comp.unix.whatever who
consistently buys his OS from companies that immediately go under
or get sold, we could make a fortune in short selling.  :-)

Gary Heston, at home....                ...he didn't appreciate it when
gary@cdthq.uucp                         I suggested the same thing...
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.taxes
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Subject: Re: Cafeteria Health-Care Program: HELP?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:08:43 GMT
Organization: Superseding Information, Inc.

In <BzFnFw.4sz@taligent.com>, cep@taligent.com sez:
>In article <1992Dec17.230042.2523@panix.com> eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:
>>If she agreed to have $10/week deducted for medical, and left after
>>only 4 weeks of January, she would pay only $40 for having as much as
>>$520 of free NON-taxable benefits; of course, she would have to incur
>>the costs in that 4-week period (which isn't so hard to do).
>
>Sorry, but that's not how it works.  The employer is risk-free.  If you
>leave your job, the employer is required to charge you for the FULL
>AMOUNT that you signed up for in year ($520 minus contributions to
>date, in the example you show); you do not get anything for free.

I cannot claim to have read the IRS regs on the subject; rather, I am
relying on a recent article from the NYTimes business section, which
described the system as I have.  The point was made that since
companies are permitted to treat benefits paid as a cost of doing
business, and since they obviously don't have to make the FICA
contributions that would apply if the funds were paid as regular
salary, the companies are compelled to bear some risk in return.

I can attest, however, that my secretary took advantage of her former
employer's mandated risk in precisely the manner depicted: left in
January, paid a negligible amount into her health spending account,
and still received reimbursement for substantial medical expenses in
roughly the amount of her projected full-year contribution.

Instead of listening to me and Christophe squabble over this point, I
recommend that people simply ask their employers what happens if you
depart mid-year.

-- 
			Sold by weight, not by volume.
  Some settling of contents may have occurred during shipment and handling.

	   Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com     ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
From: mj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Jakubowycz)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: IBM Turnaround?
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:13:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4f=wMK_00WBNQ4sGFn
	<17552@umd5.umd.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>To me the crucial thing is mainframes.  Mainframes are extinct (he said,
>expecting disagreement) but many inside and outside IBM don't know it yet.


You hit a major point. MAINFRAMES.... and for this reason IBM is dead.
They make a different product but still think mainframes......


RIP IBM
             [                        |    A boat is a hole in   ]
             [   Mark Jakubowycz      |    the water surrounded  ]
             [ (mj00+@andrew.cmu.edu) |    wood into which one   ]
             [                        |    throws money.         ]
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Gas/Oil production partnerships/Evergreen Securities
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:25:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Dec17.145929.19443@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> warren@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (warren.a.montgomery) writes:
>                                It promised a return of 15%
>annually for 37 years based on the known reserves, with some tax
>benefit as well.

I'm unfamiliar with the specific offering you were solicited with,
but a market timer who I follow, Richard Band, has been
highly recommending something similar that is an initial public
offering this week.

It's called William Coal Seam Gas Royalty Trust. Richard said it
would pay 10-11% return per year for the next decade, all tax
sheltered. Like the tax-sheltered investment you were offered,
this too is a business aimed at new sources of energy from
known reserves.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Free Stock Newsletter By E-mail
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 20:11:30 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

mrand@sdf.lonestar.org (Marc Randolph) writes:

> In article <Bz3tIn.Lq@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writ
> >[...]
> >There are no funds averaging > 20% over 10 years.
> 
>    I hope you meant to type "several" rather than "no".  CGM and 
> Sit New Beginning, as well as a few others, have returned just over 20% 
> avg over the past 10 years.

Is that real returns, or before expenses/load/comissions? 

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: klur@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.s.klur)
Subject: Tax Questions
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:58:00 GMT


A couple of end of year tax questions:

1.  I currently own some AIM-Weingarten MF shares, and I would
    like to sell them to rrealize a capital loss for tax 
    purposes.  If I transfer my investment to the AIM-Constellation
    Mutual Fund, can I still realize a capital loss on the shares
    that I have "sold"?

2.  Quoting from the MFF, "Foreign governments usually withhold taxes
    on dividends and interest earned in their coountries by American
    Mutual Funds.  U.S. shareholders of such funds are entitled to a
    deduction or a dollar-for-dollar tax credit equal to their pro-rata
    share of the amounts withheld.  The tax-credit is always more 
    valuable, and is claimed by filing a Form 1116 with your tax return."

    I'm not sure what this means, but I own some shares of a closed-end
    mutual fund investing overseas (The Iberian Fund).  Is there some
    tax benefit I can realize?

3.  Can I deduct the following expenses from my income?
	+ mutual fund fees
	+ broker fees

Thanks,

--
David Klur 	           | "There are two types of people in this world... 
AT&T			   |  Those that think there are two types of people,
dklur@attmail.com 	   |  and those that know better."
Me? Speak for AT&T?!?      |    -- Tom Robbins, "Still Life with Woodpecker"
From: volks@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (Lorraine Van Wingerden)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: GM stock/dividend ?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 19:53:12 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Does anybody know what is going on with GM,
I heard that they may drop Oldsmobile from their line, but
how this will effect stock prices?

What is going to happen to dividends?

Do you think that GM has any chances of survival?    


Thanks,
volks@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: roth@feline.cs.wisc.edu (Bill Roth)
Subject: Where can I get cost-of-living data?
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:25:54 GMT

I would like to know where I can data on the relative cost of living
differences in major cities around the country. I would like to know,
with some degree of accuracy, either statistical or scientifical,
what the cost-of-living differences between Madison, WI and Austin, TX
are.

Does anyone know where I can get this kind of data?

-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Roth, University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept.
Internet: roth@cs.wisc.edu. BITNET: ROTH@WISCPSL. HEPNET: PSL::ROTH
From: hacker@access.digex.com (Dark Hacker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Sorry, my fault...
Date: 21 Dec 1992 06:14:51 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Keywords: IBM plunge

Yes well I have a desease sort of like Gary's.  When I buy a stock,
it never looses... it just doesn't go anywhere.  I can't tell you
how many times I've screamed at the WSJ...

"SO!  Do something YOU TWIT!  Don't just SIT there!"

Never fails... the market can shoot up 1000 points but boy my stocks
are steady as the Rock Of Gibralter.  Talk about preservation of capital!

- Hacker
-- 
Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation
hacker@black-silicon.mclean.va.us

"Life itself is... COMPUTATION!"
Xref: sparky misc.invest:14838 misc.taxes:3786
From: kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Peter Kaplan -Yodh)
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.taxes
Subject: A question about the advantages of deferring taxes
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:44:19 GMT
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Laboratory for Research on the Structure of Matter, University of Pennsylvania

I am a graduate student (read: I have essentially no income) with 
a financial problem.  My wife (also a graduate student...) just inherited
her father's pension.  Because he never paid tax on this money, we will
have to pay income tax on his pension as we receive it.  We have great
flexibility as to how we take the money over the next several years.

Our accountant told me that the rule of thumb is that it is better
to defer taxes as long as possible.  I certainly understand why this is
true for retirement savings -- you don't pay tax on the interest as the
investment ages.  It seems to me that there is NO advantage to deferring
taxes unless tax is also deferred on the interest.

Scenario                     Final Value (N years)(tax rate T)(Interest rate I)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Tax deferred on
principal (P) and interest    P(1+I)^N(1-T)

(2) Tax deferred on
principal, but not interest   P(1+I(1-T))^N(1-T)

(3) Tax paid immediately on
principal and interest        P(1-T)(1+I(1-T))^N

I note that  (1) >> (2) = (3)
But (1) is not an available option for us.

Obviously, deferring taxes is not as benificial if tax rates are rising.
Since we will eventually graduate and our earned income will presumably rise
I am sorely tempted to pay as much tax, now, at our current 15% tax bracket
as possible.

Am I missing some advantage for deferring tax on the principal?
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lschiffe@co-dev19.shearson.com (larry Schiffer)
Subject: Has Anybody heard of William Seay ??????
Organization: Shearson Lehman Brothers
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:32:16 GMT

Has anybody heard of an investment advisor named William Seay ??
He claims quite a record on short-term trading profits.
Has anybody made any money with this guy ??


LS
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.consumers,misc.entrepreneurs,soc.college