HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:19:03 CST
From:         Len Rugen <C4322LR@UMVMA.UMSYSTEM.EDU>
Subject:      If you (dis)like Rush

Whether you like Rush L. or not I'd recommend some of the following
daily radio programs on Christian radio stations:

Family News in Focus - 5(?) min several times a day current events update
from Focus on the Family

Focus on the Family - 30 min daily (aired twice on many stations) various
topics hosted by Dr. Jamed Dobson and others with various guests.

Point of View - 90 min various topics with listener call in.  Some stations
only carry the first 60 minutes.  (ask for the last 30 if that's the
case!)

Money Matters - 30 min show about personal finance from a Christian
perspective with Larry Burkett.  This may not be the title, they
also have 2 minute spots on some stations called (I think) "How to
manage your money" but I may have these switched or just wrong.

These are almost never your typical "radio preaching"!

Len Rugen, Sr. Systems Programmer      E-Mail-C4322LR@UMVMA
Information Technology                  Alias-C4322LR@UMVMA.UMSYSTEM.EDU
University of Missouri System             Alt-CCFLEN@MIZZOU1
401 Clark Hall                             or-CCFLEN@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
Columbia, MO 65211

314-882-9237           cc:Mail Gateway-UMCCFGW.RUGENL@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:32:55 -0600
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: CHRIST AS A ROLE MODEL.

This thread has reminded me of a conversation I had years ago with a
non Christian roommate.  I was a new Christian and was reading Watchman
Nee's book "The Normal Christian Life".  My roommate, who had taken some
psychology classes, took issue with the title.  She said that we can't know
what normal is, it
it's different for each person.  Well, being a new Christian, that initially
confused me until I found the answer.  The life of Jesus is the normal
Christian life.  Thank you for this conversation and the reminder of
a conversation years ago which taught me an elemental truth.

Molly Archibold
marchibold@mscd
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: CHRIST, NOT PURGATORY
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:17:53 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92110607354494@ASUACAD.BITNET> Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:

>The NIV is a concept translation, not a "verbatim" sort like the NASB.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you mean it's a paraphrase rather
than a translation, then you're wrong. If you mean it doesn't just pick
one English word for each Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek word and substitute directly,
then that's true (but also true of just about any other translation), and
in any case I don't see what's wrong with being a "concept" translation.
Can you explain what you mean by a "concept" translation, and say what's
wrong with them? Thanks.

>The term "flesh" has been debated, and the Context seems to favour
>it over the sin nature alternative ... at least in some places.
>Again, context defines terms ... not the reverse.

Yes, in some places. But not in most places.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:21:33 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CHRIST, NOT PURGATORY
              4 Nov 1992 17:03:19 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Dear Steve Creps ;

Question for ye :

"Did Jesus' death at the cross make salvation 'possible' applicable upon
the meeting of certain conditions, OR did Jesus ACTUALLY accomplish the
forgiveness of all the sins for whom He died?"

Concomitantly : "If the latter, can there be any punishment for sin left if
all sins of those for whom Christ died were ACTUALLY Expunged?"
laid on Christ who then bore punitive judgement in place of those whose total
lot of sins were thusly borne in His body (ie., judgement for guilt concurred
Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:44:58 CST
From:         Anthony Glen Jeffries <jeffries@IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: God raises people up....
              04 Nov 92 08:26:48 -0600. <9211041620.AA25641@po-1.iastate.edu>

> Maks...
> You're on the right track.
> It's in the one of the four Gospels where Jesus said that
> "Those who are exhalted, will be made low; those who are abased I
> will lift up"...
> I think it's in Matthew

Here's where I found it with my concordance...

"For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself
will be exalted."  Matthew 23:12 (NIV)

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles
himself will be exalted."  Luke 14:11 (NIV)

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles
himself will be exalted."  Luke 18:14 (NIV)

Here's another verse which is * very * close to these.  It's not Jesus
speaking, but James:

"Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up."
James 4:10 (NIV)

Anthony Glen Jeffries
Iowa State University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:09:58 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jesus tells Thomas about evil and sin
              12 Nov 1992 16:09:26 CST from <sweberg@GARFIELD.WES.ARMY.MIL>

Scott:

About the Urantia Book, I have not personally read it. My information is
second-hand, but I trust it's relatively good. Jeff Pollard had to battle
with the lies in that book when he witnessed to Kerry Livgren (Kansas).
This is back when Jeff was still with Louisiana Le Roux and on tour with
Kansas. I spoke very briefly again with Jeff last week and he told me in
about 50 words or less that the Urantia Book aims for a One-World govt. with
an avatar as ruler. Unlike a Hindu avatar, the god who descends to earth in
bodily form is what would commonly be referred to as an alien. The followers
of the book might not call him that, but just listen to what they say about
God's supposed other Sons like Jesus who are described as celestial beings,
etc.

Hope this is a start.

Tom Brewer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:19:19 CST
From:         "Jesse (laughing all day) Carnes" <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Gospel
              13 Nov 1992 04:03:12 GMT from <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>

Dear Tim Rolf ;

A question : "How do you KNOW that my interpretation is allegedly private
rather than in agreement with the Scriptures?"

Second, if you read the Scriptures and STILL agree with Rome, then either you
have not read what Rome REALLY teaches in their OFFICIAL stuff vs. what you
get in your perishchurch, OR your hermeneutics are coloured by Rome's
presuppositions, in my opinion.  You might be bending the Scriptures around
your Romish presuppositions.


Jesse Carnes
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From: ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Trinity...
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:48:45 GMT
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Excerpts from christia: 6-Nov-92 Re: Trinity... JLong@UA1VM.BITNET (551)

> I'm new to this list and it is very encouraging to know that there are a
> lot of Christians out there in every day life.  I do not know what you
> have been discussing, so correct me if I ask the wrong question. Is not
> the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost one and the same?

The answer is, no, they are not "the same" in the common sense of the word.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three Persons (hypostatis
in Greek).  They are distinct personalities, BUT they are inseparable.
They are all consubstantial (homoousious) -- that is, they are all
"composed" of the same essence or substance (whatever "stuff" the Father
is made out of, the Son and the Spirit are made out of the same "stuff",
and all the "stuff" is connected, to give a vulgar explanation of it).

The Father is uncreated, unbegotten, and does not proceed (explained
later).  The Son is uncreated, eternally begotten of the Father, and
does not proceed (check me on this, you theologians).  The Spirit is
uncreated, unbegotten, and proceeds from the Father through the Son.
Each is fully God.

All three Persons are coequal and coeternal -- none of them is greater
than another, none of them has a beginning or an end.  There is,
however, a rank or order:  the Father is the First Person, the Son is
the Second Person, and the Spirit is the Third Person.

Somewhere I have the Athanasian Creed which does an excellent job of
explaining this.  If someone has it, please post it; I'll look for it,
though.

Note that it is quite erroneous to say that the Father, the Son, and the
Spirit are merely three names, modes, or offices of God.  They are three
distinct Persons.  The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit.  The
Son is not the Spirit.  The converse of each of those is also true
(saves me typing).

Hope this helps,

Eric
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Re: Point to Eric.
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:49:57 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

Jesse asks:

> Eric ;
>
> But my man, is your idea that God's relationship to us is analogous to a
> parent and child ACTUALLY Biblical ... as you state it?

and goes on to describe the analogy as strained, and offers some others to
replace it.

I find this startling in view of the heavy use Jesus makes of this
analogy. Do I really have to go through looking for references for
this? I hope not.

But perhaps Jesse's objection is not to the analogy itself (if it's
good enough for Jesus it's certainly good enough for me!), but to the
use Eric makes of it. Jesse, why don't you approve of the analogy in
this particular instance, apart from the fact that it supports Eric's
position? The analogy is used often enough by Jesus that you ought to
have a pretty good reason for saying it doesn't apply. So... ?

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:05:13 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      One more radio program...

If you like sports, Sports Spectrum is very interesting.
We get it once a week...12 noon on Saturday, est.  Coaches,
players, sports commentators, all Christian, are interviewed.

I like sports, and the guests are good examples for our 14 year
old son.  A Sports Spectrum magazine is also produced.

Just a suggestion...
Carol Nemec
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:38:11 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Jealous God

In article <CHRISTIA%92110906310655@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Angela Zimmerman
<AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> says:
>
>Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
>Phone: 588-6757
>
>God created people just for the purpose of worshiping him?  Doesn't that
>sound like God is an egomaniac?  (sorry, but it had to be said).
>Plus, if people are here only for the purpose of worshiping God, why
>do people have jobs, families...basically, why do people have *lives*?

Apparently there is some difference between God in the Old Testament and
God in the New Testament. Perhaps someone out there could explain why that is?



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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:10:06 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Free Will and Predestination

Dear Michael ;

Sorry I mispelled your name.

my fault.


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: danderso@nmsu.edu (David Anderson)
Subject: Help Wanted:
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: bit.listserv.christia
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:41:08 GMT

Hello everyone!

I have not been following this group as much as I did last year
because of an incredible load of work from both my job and my classes.
One other thing that I need to keep on top of is being the chaplain
for a campus organization.  I was wondering if anyone could send me
some tips on how to be an efefctive chaplain.  I've been rather
disappointed in myself for having accomplished as little as I have
with the position so far this semester.  An additional item, hte
organization will soon be having a formal induction for new members
and I need to do the invocation.  I have very little experience in
this area and would appreciate any help available.  God bless!

David Anderson
danderso@nmsu.edu
From: ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: More on deuterocanonical books
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:49:00 GMT
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Jesse,

I just found out something else.

The Oriental Orthodox church, which broke off from the Catholic church
in 451 A.D. after the Council of Chalcedon, also includes the
deuterocanonical books from the Septuagint in its Bible.

Hence since a church a full 1,000 years removed from Trent -- a church
which has no affinity for the Catholic church -- accepts the
deuterocanon, we know that it was not merely added at Trent in
retaliation by a spurned Catholic Church.

Eric
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)
Subject: Intentionally offending... (was Re: God/Allah...)
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:59:07 GMT

In <92318.081347ICH529@DJUKFA11.BITNET> ICH529@DJUKFA11.BITNET (Matthias Radke) writes:

[...]

>I understand that you may feel upset, but I don't believe that a
>Christian will intentionally offend any of his sisters or brothers.

This is very interesting, considering some of the rabidly anti-<fill in the
name of the group> postings some people send to this newsgroup/listserver.
Of course, some may not consider as brothers and sisters people who are
homosexuals, or Papists, or Santerians, or . . . 
-- 
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:42:33 EST
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer request

Please pray again for my husbands Directors' wife.  She had a heart attack
last week and is still in a coma.


                                   Bernice
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X-Orig-To: Christia@asuacad,Joy Locke,Miley@ncpa.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:24:30 CST
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      I ask your prayers....

The Lord knows my heart concerning my career choice.  He knows me
also concerning my musical abilities, which came from him in the first
place.  I have said before, that He has not told me to "change my major".
Not in three years, at least.
Here are some developements that might result in "the G" becoming
a non-music major.
1. Concert band auditions were held Monday night.
   We were given our music TWO *WEEKS* IN ADVANCE.  Not enough time
   for a musician to work it up to audition quality, obviously.
   Or at least not THIS musician.
   Three of us MUSIC MAJORS are seated in the EXACT SAME spot we were
   given at the beginning of SPRING TERM LAST SEMESTER!
   My friend Kristi is seated third, Missy is seated fourth, and I,
   lastly, and to my dismay, am seated last .... of 7 flutes chosen
   for this organization.
   I am not at all pleased with these results. God has given me music
   to use for his glory.  And, as a result, I try to get to a practice
   room as many times in a week as I can.  How can I use the talent he
   gave me if another musician tells me that I'm not the player I *KNOW*
   I've worked to be.
   Several people other than myself know that they too, are better
   than the results stated.
2. I took a test in a music form and analysis course.
   I flunked this class first term, and need to pass it to graduate.
   Up to this test my average was at least a 75.  The instructor
   told the entire class he would play the piece to be analyzed in
   class.  On the test day, he didn't play it like he said he would.
   Therefore, a friend of mine scored a 78 (should have been a 98!)
   I scored a *46* that should have been at least an 75.
                                                                            Yes,
 I think auditions are "rigged".  That's life, not everything we do is fair... h
owever, I say give the MUSIC MAJORS the chance to play in these bands.
Not only this, but we need Doctor John Bivins teaching the class that
he is contracted to teach.  While he was out having brain surgery, a
man was put in his place, who I'd had the class under the first time,
... and who could care LESS about the material he's teaching.  Theory
is his bag.  Not form.  Doctor Bivins should teach form next fall I think?
I might take it a third time...
Please pray for me.  I feel like I've done all that is humanly possible.
God has blessed me with the talent to play, and to UNDERSTAND music.
Why can't I do this like I used to?
I have studied my posterior end off!
Frustrated, sad, not-so-musical-at-the-moment.....
"G"
Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 10 NOV 92  9:39:05 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:39:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Help Wanted:

Date:     Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:54:00 -0400
From:     STYLESBG@CA.TUNS.CCS.WATT

> Hi David,  Pastor Bill here.  Just a few thots:
> 1.  You are ecxtremely busy,  so try to set a few reachable goals and meety
> them. Otherwise,  you will feel like a failure if you set a few mtns that
> are un-reachable.  You know how much time and energy it takes to do your job
> prperly, and your school work, and etc.  I will join others in praying that
> you will be sensitive as you plan out goals and make plans to meet them;

Sound advice but remember to also set aside prayer, rest and recreation times.
So often when we have so much to do we forget to draw apart and rest.  God
had the real task of managing the universe and he rested.  Shouldn't we
also rest when we are "in charge of the world"  Get a routine for you rest
periods - settle down in a comfortable position - a position you reserve
for rest and prayer - say a simple prayer for god to protect you and mind
all the tasks you have had to set aside for this - clear your mind of every
other thing except Love of God and rest and enjoy and be there.  It takes
practice to "stop thinking" but it has its rewards.  Use physical relaxation
methods - find one which works for you - to still your body (even your eye
and speech muscles - these actually can help you relax anywhere if you can
identify them and think them warm and still.)  Don't forget to come out of
our rest session with gentleness and care.  Like going on retreat, you will
feel the world may jolt because you take yourself out o step with it for 20
mins or so.

> 2.  Enlist others' help,  see Eph 4 and other portions which talk about body
> ministry and each joint supplyiong LIFE to the whole;

Let everyone know there is a time when only life or death emergencies can
interupt.  Make space for yourself.  Fear of interuption can stop you
relaxing.

> 3.  Let nothing come between you and your time alone in the Word of God
> preferably at the start of each day.  You will find giving you abilities in
> organization etc etc far beyond your years of experience,  see Proverbs
> 16:1,  and also Prov 4.

Yes, same applies to the "Resting in the Lord" time as well.  I'm drawing
a distinction between the two - it is a different sort of thing - I'm not
sure how to explain. O.K. off the top of my head : It is the difference
between two lovers doing things and them just relaxing in silence by a warm
log fire.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:46:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Cell Group Churches

In a message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:22:11 GMT
Received on 9-NOV-1992 17:43:10.85
Jon Reid <jmrg9881@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU> wrote:

> The point is that I am not talking about
> home churches which are independent from each other; cells make up a body,
> and the body gathers together on a regular basis.

Nor do I. The home groups are not independent, but are meetings of the
local church they belong to. The leaders of these home groups are
taught, trained and held responsible by the church.

> I have written many other messages about cell group churches, but the
> messages have expired.  If you (or anybody) are interested in them, please
> send me e-mail.

I read them when they came in and have retained copies of some. Thanks.

It seems to me that the difference between churches  * with *  cell
groups and cell-group churches is not that fundamental at all. It all
depends on how the specific cell-groups (in either case) practice their
fellowship. I tend to think that the boundary between the two is not
sharp. This might become evident by the answer to the following
question:

Given a church would want to change its structure from building-based to
group-based: which steps would you recommend the elders of this church
to take?

peace,
Wolfgang <><
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