HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Lappis (Was: Re: Non-Indo-Europ
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:52:45 GMT

In article <hberg.277@polisci.umn.edu>, hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob
Hammarberg) wrote:
> Bulgarians (who regard themselves a True Slavs) regard Russians as mere 
> Slavicized Finns.

I wonder what the Bulgarians say about the fact that the "virile", ruling
element of the first "Bulgarian" state formation was a Turkish-speaking
people, who originally came from further east [the Volga Bulgars being
their brethren, and they were Turkish [in the broad sense]-speaking
pagans].

They _were_ assimilated pretty quick, though, leaving just some words and
the name of the new nation of Eastern Balkan Slavs.

Moskva/Moscow:

Like I wrote, the etymology _is_ unclear. But still a lot of people believe
that the name of the city is of Fenno-Ugrian origin - I do not know what
they
currently believe that it really means... Placenames being, like we all
know,
notoriously difficult...

PC
From: perw@elixir.e.kth.se (Per Westerlund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish Defense
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:42:15 GMT
Reply-To: perw@elixir.e.kth.se (Per Westerlund)
Organization: School of EE, Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden


In article <1992Dec15.062903.13623@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
> In Sweden the finnish-speking conscripts have to serve in swedish speaking
> units. Swedenfinnish Centralorganization has proposed the idea to the
> Swedish army that the finnnish speaking conscripts should serve in finnish
> speaking units. Swedish army has denied this wish by arguing that it
> disintegrate swedish army. So it must be the same in Finland, swedish
> speaking units disintegrate Finnish the army. We have copied a lot of
> thinking
> from Swden, at least it is boasted so, why not this thining too.
> 
> Are you for this too? Or are you for unequality?
> I am for an absolute equality of the people regardless if they live
> in
> Sweden or Filand. What about you?
> regards,
> jarmo ryyti
> en finnj{vel
> 
> 
Should we start again with a discussion about the Finnish-speaking
minority in Sweden versus the Swedish-speaking minority in Finland?

I hope not, because we have discussed nearly every aspect of it, may be
with the exception of the armies. Is not Finnish the command language of
Nyland's brigade, the only army unit for Swedesh-speaking Finns?


Per Westerlund
perw@elixir.e.kth.se
From: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: "So called home-language..."
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:44:23 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>"So called home-language"...are you going to build homelands for the non-
>swedish, non-mother-tongue-speakers too? 

You sorry excuse for a rational thinking human being!!
If Sweden were trying to turn all immigrants that come here into swedish
citizens the why should we TEACH them their NATIVE LANGUAGE and
HISTORY? Please mr. Ryyti, explain that to me, because you really
semm to be the one in the world to turn to when one wants something
prperly explained.


>And only the swedish mother-tongue speakers pay taxes?

Dont you kind of like the idea, huh?


Of course not, but since it was possible to missinterpretate the sentence
then you did it , right?

-Henrik Jonsson , d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: CMOHN@FINABO.ABO.FI (Carl Mohn)
Subject: Re:  Traditional Christmas Song
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:04:23 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

> 
> 	<asterios@emke.chalmers.se  (Asterios Kastoris) wrote:
> 
> >P.S. We have a little disagreement my friends and I,  about which is sung 
> >first,  the ears or the tails.  Anyone out there on the net who knows  

In <1992Dec15.131508.14402@pellns.alleg.edu> booserm@quig20.alleg.edu writes:

> 
> 	First of all,  I could be wrong but I thought that song was sung  
> at Midsummer.  But I do know that the ears part does come first!  God Jul  
> och Gott Nytt ]r!!!!                  =========

	Not over here it doesn't. I wonder where the lyrics got screwed
	up on their way to this side of the Gulf of Bothnia..? :-)

> 
> 	Marcia Booser  booserm@alleg.edu 

==============================================================================
CMOHN@FINABO.abo.fi	* "War is peace, freedom is slavery,
Carl Mohn               *  ketchup is a vegetable." - Unknown
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Recipe for Julvort
X-Xxdate: Fri, 18 Dec 92 10: 37:46 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: tnb1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:33:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.043950.14540@midway.uchicago.edu> raymond thomas
pierrehumbert, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu writes:
>Jul igen!  Our favorite shop down at Andersonville doesn't
>seem to have any julvort (spiced Christmas bread) this year,
>so we'll have to try to make our own.  Could somebody send
>or post a recipe?  I know it contains brewers' yeast, but
>there are some other mystery spices in there too I haven't
>been able to figure out.

Making leavened bread is a good start :-).  I use beer, especially dark,
porter-type stuff, for the liquid.  Sugar is a biggie, the Swedish syrup
has the right flavor, but I usually find only Lyle's Golden from England
which works fine but is expensive.  Aim for about 6% sugar by weight. 
Orange peel is the main flavoring in mine.
From: kfa@atomi.hut.fi (Kim Fallstrom)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinn seek official support from Finland
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:10:53 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland


I don't quite understand all this language-fighting. If (when) I will
emigrate somewhere from my own country, I do NOT count on getting some
special treatment suitable just for my cultural and lingual tradition.

The Finns in Sweden should learn to speak Swedish. It is usually a 
good idea to try to be part of the society of the country of your
recidence. I have some vague memories of many Finnish-only speaking
groups of Finns in Sweden. If that is the case, then the problem is
with the Finns, not with the Swedish government. It is a good thing to
try to preserve one's own cultural traditions, but closed-mindness will
create problems in any society. 


Kim Fallstr|m

--
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: suopanki@stekt2.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Dementia spreading in Social Democratic Party
Reply-To: suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:22:59 GMT

>>>>> On 15 Dec 92 00:44:10, tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) said:

ryyti> Comrade (*) U.Sundquist is an upper class finlandswede 

another example of Jarmo Ryyti's "facts"...

Tor> Hmm, are you sure about this? Isn't "Uffe" from Sibbo/Sipoo?  His last
Tor> name at least doesn't indicate any "upper class" connections, like,
Tor> say Ehrnrooth or Donner. 

His family was poor and his father was a construction worker.


-Heikki
From: chad@ithil.enet.dec.com (Chad Leigh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:10:56 GMT
Reply-To: chad@ithil.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Munich Germany


--
In article <LHE.92Dec17100016@yang.sics.se>, lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:

>I think the translation "Maiden maiden maiden maiden dear" is better.
>The swedish word "jungfru" means both a young woman and someone who
>has not had sex. In this particular case, the first meaning is clearly
>the intended one. To me, the English word "virgin" primarily means
>someone who has not had sex. Or is it just my non-native understanding
>of English that is playing tricks with me?

From a non-swede who doesn't know the tune, "Maiden, Maiden..." sounds
more likely.  "Virgin" in English has three similar meanings, one really
a subset of the other, an that in turn being s subset of the third.  The first, traditional one is a woman/girl who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
The second meaning is anyone, regardless of gender, who has not experienced
sexual intercourse.  The third is more modern (I think) and means any
non-adulterated (is that the spelling for that) thing, for example,
virgin olive oil, virgin ears (those not accustomed to hearing "filthy"
speach), virgin vinyl (that is what the inside of my notebook says -- I assume
that it means non-recycled or whatever) etc.  It can mean (and in (older) literature usually does) mean
the first (woman) one without having to refer to gender.  For example,
you might read something about pagans sacrigicing virgins to their gods.
Here it is assumed a female sacrifice.  (There are always exceptions, so
don't flame me).

>--
>Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
>Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
>Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
>S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30


-------------------------------------------------------
Chad Leigh                         | I don't speak
Digital Equipment GmbH             | for DEC and they
Munich, Germany			   | don't speak
Originally from Pepperell, MA, USA | for me
-------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: nkjrm@taxus.uib.no (Rolf Manne)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Organization: University of Bergen
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:05:07 GMT

In article <hberg.274@polisci.umn.edu> hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:

>In article <nkjrm.84@taxus.uib.no> nkjrm@taxus.uib.no (Rolf Manne) writes:


>>Smaa grodorna is part of the Swedish "Dans kring granen" (Dance 
>>around the Christmas Tree) activity. Many of these songs and dances have
>>nothing to do with Christmas, but this is the time of the year when you
>>do this.

>But how long has Grodorna been a Xmas "tradition"?  I've never associated it 
>with Xmas; one was likely to encounter it at parents' day in kindergarten, 
>or in children's programs on radio/TV (regardless of season) - at least in 
>svenskfinland.

I learnt the songs and dances mentioned in the 1940's when I was a kid
in Gothenburg. You could do them at other times also, but we certainly
did them at Christmas time, not in homes (takes too much organization)
but in kindergarten and in school. I am sure that they were old then.

Rolf

Rolf.Manne@uib.no
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Jarmo smells like bat barf
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Dec11.155508.620@jyu.fi>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:49:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.155508.620@jyu.fi> joheko@jyu.fi (Jonne Henrikki Kolima)
 writes:


  >Flame the moron senseless.

  But Jarmo Ryyti is immune to flames! That is the nature of all these
weird fanatics. They can go on forever, arguing their weird fanaticism
until the sun goes dim and all life on Earth ceases.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: lchoqu%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette)
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:21:04 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <asterios-141292082754@g0-mac3.ekti.chalmers.se>
asterios@emke.chalmers.se (Asterios Kastoris) writes:
 > Friday the 11 of December i wrote a little merry song about the little
 > frogs.   I didn+t realize what a national disaster would split the nation
 > in two.
 > Half the nation seems to want the ears first and half the nation wants to
 > have tails first (Judging from my E-mail).

I dug out my mom's Bosse Larsson record, which was made in the '50's and has a
couple of dozen ringlekar on it, like "Virgin virgin virgin virgin dear," "A
really neat mother-in-law I want to have," and "The priest's little crow wanted
to go out and ride."  :-)  (If you want lyrics, send E-mail.)

Bosse sings the ears first.

BTW, my mom used Asterios' idea in a Christmas party with some Scandinavian-
American friends.  She read "The fox runs over the ice" and "Small frogs" in
English, pretending to be a poet at a highbrow poetry reading.

	(with a serious face)
	Small frogs
	  Small frogs
	Are funny
	  To see.
	No ears
	  No ears
	...and so on...
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
   . . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . . .The early worm . . . . . . . . .
  . . . .lchoqu@cs.utah.edu . . . . . . . . . gets eaten. . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From: murat@cs.ucsb.edu (Murat Karaorman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Copenhagen accomodation requested!
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:19:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody would be interested in offering me a place to 
stay on the 27th of December(Sunday) and/or January 9th (also Sunday).
I will be having a stopover for one day on each of the dates as I fly
from Los Angeles to Istanbul (and return). I am a serious traveler, very
interested in different cultures, and people. Even for this short time 
I have in Copenhagen I would like to maximize my exposure to the life in
Copenhagen. 
So if you are interested in offering me a bed, couch or whatever, please drop
me a mail. (my e-mail is murat@cs.ucsb.edu) I am willing to pay up to 25$(US)
a night. Otherwise I will probably be staying  at a youth hostel, and would
still be interested in meeting people. 

If anybody out there, planning a trip to California, (especially Santa Barbara
area) I would be glad to offer whatever I can to the open-hearted traveler.

peace and joy,
murat.

[(805) 968-6170 (home) 	     764 K Birch Walk, Santa Barbara, California 93117]
[  //  893-4178 (lab)        Dist.Systems Lab, UC Santa Barbara		      ]
 
--
****  First learn your horn and all the theory. ****
**    Next develop a style.                       **
**    Then forget all that and just play.         **
****                -- Charlie Parker           ****    [murat@cs.ucsb.edu]
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<nkjrm.84@taxus.uib.no> <1992Dec15.153510.2729@cs.cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:29:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.153510.2729@cs.cornell.edu> elster@cs.cornell.edu
 (Anne C. Elster) writes:

   >Hmmmm ... I seem to remember a few others: "Saa gaar vi rundt om en
   >enerbaerbusk ..." (This is what we do walking around an evergreen
   >bush ..)

  In the English version, "Here we go round the mulberry bush". I suppose
many of these games and songs are found in slightly different versions
throughout northern Europe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Finnish Defense
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:01:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.070316.18124@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>I can assure you that no ruskie or ami know where is my rifle and knives...
>privet,
>jarmo

we can all sleep peacefully now, knowing that korpisoturi Ryyti is armed to 
the teeth and prepared to defend old Suomi - unless, of course, you speak 
Swedish....
From: urf@icl.se (Urban F)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish Defense
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:34:24 GMT
Organization: None. On USENET I speak only for myself.
X-Alt.reply-Address: n.g.u.fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>Cetainly our neighbouring super -power is dangerous, it may start a war
>in the Gulf of Bothnia any time. If there is needed guerillas against
>the swedes I am cetainly a volunteer. We must defend Finland.
>The danger is the 5th colonna of Finlandswedes. What should we do with them?
>They have even an own army unit, inside Finland. It may be dangerous in the
>future.

Well, supposing the great power to the _east_ of you would attack
you, then it would be practical to have Swedish-speaking units in
the army, as it would be easier to integrate Swedish Swedish-speakers
volonteers then.

BTW: As Sweden no longer can draft lots of Finns from Finland to fight
our wars, an attack from this direction seems _very_ unlikely, doesn't
it? ;-)
--
 Urban Fredriksson  urf@icl.se  
 A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: m92mmy@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Myrberg)
Subject: Please repost Moomin-picture
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:01:33 GMT


I lost my copy of the Moomin-picture,
could whoever posted it repost it, please ?

Thanks in advance.

/Mattias

_______
Mattias Myrberg

m92mmy@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi>
Subject: Re: Kansallis-Bank buying STS-bank? / more details
Organization: Turku School of Economics
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:42:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.024102.7054@microsoft.com> Juha P. Salin,
juhasa@microsoft.com writes:
>process?  Anyone has the details?

It is said that Ty|v{en Opintos{{ti| - The Workers' Studying Foundation -
would have sold
stocks that entitle the majority to Kansallis-Osake-Pankki for FIM 70 000
000. The losses
will be caused for state through Kansallis-Osake-Pankki will be approx.
FIM 2 500 000 000.

A shopping centre in Espoo called Lepp{vaaran Galleria had been sold for
Suomen
ty|v{ens{{st|pankki before the selling the majority of its stocks to
Kansallis-Osake-Pankki.
The foundation that sold Galleria, bought a Big farm - kartano the same
time.

With Minister of Finance, Iiro Viinanen, KOP reach an agreement, that
KOP's losses - unsolved
loans and so, will be parked into state-quaranteed "junk banks" to be
established later on.

This has been widely discussed in parliament, because MPs were not
informed tresurer's aim
to introduce a proposal of the junk bank(s). Minister of Justice, Hannele
Pokka will put an
investigation and some businesses made by the Workers' Studying
Foundation, Ty|v{en S{{st|-
pankki and KOP may be cancelled.

Also the question of cleaning banks balance sheet by skipping losses into
junk bank(s) is
discussed. Treasurer Viinanen is not in political problem because of this.

The Social Democrates near the Labour Movement and Trade Unions (Maj-Len
Remahl & Co) have
proposed that chairman Ulf Sundqvist should go, but the members of party
council still keep
him. No problems for Sundqvist either, I think.


- Olli-Jukka Paloneva -
From: anders@buast7.bu.edu (Anders Jorgensen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Travel in the Nordic Countries
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:48:03 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <etxmow.724696654@garboc34> etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:
>evans@ece.arizona.edu writes:
>
>
>>Would someone please let me know, when is the best time
>>of the year to visit the Nordic Countries, when
>>the weather is bearable and there aren`t that
>>many tourists.
>
>   There are never many tourists here, due to the prices :-)
>   If the weather is a concern go anytime between early May and late
>   September.   
And be sure to bring an umbrella - and shorts, a warm sweater, t-shirt,
scarf, and sunglasses - and ofcourse your towel ;).
No, seriously - it's a great place to visit, but the weather is unpredictable
to say the least - this summer denmark had 8 weeks (I think it was 8) of 
sunshine and no (zero, nothing) rain, but that was a 100 year record. 
There has also been summers of constant rain, but mostly it's inbetween.
I think the best time to visit the central Norway for outdoor stuff (and 
I'm speaking statistically here) is in may-june.

-----Anders


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Lappis (Was: Re: Non-Indo-Europ
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:11:13 GMT

In article <user-151292221353@hf-mac16.uio.no> user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen) writes:

>       As a Slavist, I find it very interesting that the whole of Northern
>Russian (down to and including Moscow - Moskva is _probably_ Fenno-Ugrian,
>the etymology is unclear)

Are you referring to Moskva < 'machka aba' = bear mother?  I thought that 
had been thoroughly discredited.

> once upon a time was _Fennophone_, and that some
>features of the Russian literary languages, and even more Northern country
>dialects, might be taken as influence from Fenno-Ugrian (but such themes
>are often very disputable and difficult to pin down).
>       Some of the tribes which eventually joined in the making of the 
Russian>people, were also Fennophone!

Bulgarians (who regard themselves a True Slavs) regard Russians as mere 
Slavicized Finns.
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Kalle Dussins arme (was Why Finns should study Swedish)
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:26:25
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tik.vtt.fi
In-reply-to: ryyti@jyu.fi's message of Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:02:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.160203.24774@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

> Tor Lillqvist (tml@tik.vtt.fi) wrote:
> : 1) Nobody can deny there is a Finnish minority in Sweden. 

> Really, not a long time ago some swedes wrote about finnish immigrants
> on the net and explained that there are for instance no finns in Tornedalen.

Maybe so, but you claimed that some Swedes deny there is a Finnish
minority at all Sweden. Hardly can anybody deny that. 

> I am trying to say following things: there is no census made in Sweden
> since 1930:s where mother-tongue had been asked; this is what sweden-
> finnish organisations are demanding from the authorities,
> Statistiska Centralbyron, in order to become visible in the society as
> an ethnic minority.

Can this be true? No official statistics in Sweden giving the
population's mother tongue?

> The Finnish organisations of Sweden are demanding to be recognized
> by Swedish administration as an old/traditional ethnic minority of Sweden.
> Also for this wish swedish authorities have turned their backs.
> (Do not try to explain that the Finns are demanding more priviledgies
> than the other "immigrants" in a very popular swedish way...)

But isn't the fact that these Finnish organizations in Sweden that are
demanding these things have as members immigrant-Finns, not
"Forest-Finns" or "Tornedal-Finns"?

> : 3) Isn't the (possible) overrepresentation of Finns in Carl XII's and
> : other Swedish kings' armies something that Finns could/should be proud
> : of ("we are so good soldiers, we have this thing called sisu, one Finn
> : is as good as n+1 Catholics/Russians/whatever" etc ad nauseam).
> Proud of being as a cannon futter? Are you crazy?

I was trying to be satiric. In fact I am a pacifist and conscientous
objectioner myself.
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland,
Laboratory for Information Processing (VTT/TIK).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.usa