HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markl@dvorak.amd.com (Mark Luedtke)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Bad cops - a perfect example
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:09:34 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <cm=rr9f@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
>
>>My brother is a cop in Phoenix. 
>
>...
>
>>My brother once followed a guy for 5 blocks, waiting for him to 
>>screw up.  The guy apparently saw him following so he didn't do
>>anything wrong.  When my brother got tired of waiting, he pulled
>>him over anyway.  Why?  The guy yelled obcenities at a fellow
>>officer who was directing traffic (a thoroughly thankless job
>>if you ask me).  The result?  The guy recieved a citation for
>>"unnecessary noise from a motorized vehicle." :-)  He was extremely
>>belligerent during the whole process, which simply made my
>>brother feel that much better about writing the ticket.
>
>This came from rec.guns but the proper followup belongs here.
>Here is a perfect example of the kind of pigs that give them all a bad
>name.  And this guy thinks it's funny.  Maybe one of his belligerant
>victims will put one right between his eyes one day.
>
>John

That whole discussion on rec.guns turns my stomach.  I should not have to
worry about being shot by a supposed law enforcement officer for openning
my glove box or getting out of my car after being pulled over.  IMHO, it
just supports my contention that on a daily basis, I am in more danger from
cops than any other group, and that situation is only getting worse.

-- 

Mark Luedtke    markl@dvorak.amd.com

This was typed by an infinite number of monkeys.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: New Libertarian Gun Control Book
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:44:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.015104.19925@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
}Kopel's book can also be ordered from the NRA. Phone number is given
}in the American Rifleman which I don't have access to right now.

Ah, good to know.

}The information in this book about the legal systems of other
}countries is compelling in its own right.

It certainly is.  I've just about finished the third chapter, on Canada,
titled "Love of Government."

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: The Knee Jerks in MA
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:39:05 GMT

cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>12/17/92 Middlesex News

>     Moroney's World 
>     Tom Moroney
>     OPINION

>This is the usual argument you get from the gun crowd: Killers will always 
>kill, no matter what the laws are. 

>But that just isn't so. For example, what if the Montana sniping suspect had 
>been forced to leave the state for his semiautomatic? 
>And what if he had found God on his trip, got lost or just never came back? 

	Damned strait!  Why, if he had to leave he might have been killed
by a drunk driver and never gotten.. that...  dangerous...  gun.  That's
against the law too, isn't it?  Never mind.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<   "You can have my rights when you pry them from my cold, dead     >
<   Constitution."  --  Dan Sorenson, viking@iastate.edu             >
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: SYSTEMM@BARNEY.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Ruger bashing
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:14 GMT


  I have been puzzeled by the ocassional "Ruger bashing" on this net (I am a 
  relatively new subscriber).  I own some Ruger firearms and think they are 
  great guns, and the price was right, too.

  In the letters to the editor in the current (DEC) Americal Rifleman, Bill 
  says that the TV show (whch I didn't see) _severely_ took his remarks out
  of context, and without other qualifying statements.  To wit, the remark
  about supporting waiting periods and background checks was promptly 
  followed by the admission that the anti-gun zealots would never be satisfied
  short of their goal of banning all guns, and that the large number of illegal
  guns in current circulation made the effectiveness of waiting periods 
  doubtful.  Guess which part of that total statement made the "show", and
  what was left out.

  Out of a total of an hour interview, only 30 seconds made the air.  They also
  edited some of Wayne LaPierre's comments.  We all know the "host" of the 
  show, Tom Brokaw.  Surely none of us would suspect that he would let his 
  personal biases interfere with honest reporting! ;-)  NOT!!!  This bum 
  couldn't tell the *TRUTH* if he knew it!  What a Sleazebag!  Him and Slick 
  Willy would make good bedfellows.

  Well, I feel better, now.  I still think Ruger makes a good gun at a good
  price.  :-) 

  (Followups to t.p.g ?)

   Mike  (Coyote)   (Pronounced Ci'ute, not Ci-yoo'-tee)
   SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL



Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:25143 soc.culture.japan:12265
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Rikiya Asano and blatant namism (racism by another name)
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:56:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0f_g9ka00iV1E4SatP
	<1992Dec12.055222.20124@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Tad writes:

> 
>I'm so sick of Rikiya Asano's blatant racism. On USENET, one would
>have to say that the clearest indicator of ethnic origin is family
>names. Feed Racist Riki a name like: Choi, Lui, Theodoropoulos, Levy,
>Ridiccio, and, despite whatever nasty thing they may say about him, he
>will invariably spit back (as if preprogrammed to do so) that he likes
>you. His response to a person is most definitely founded on the ethnic
>origin of that person. (Do you deny it Racist Riki?)
 

Yes, I do ! I like the Greek Culture! Now, what's wrong with that? And, do you
see racism. Just because I'm asking the man if he Greek or not! C'mon!
Be serious! Choi= most likely Korean; Lui= most likely Chinese;
Theodroropoulus
most likely Greek; Levy= most likely Jewish; Richiccio= most likely Italian!
I do like them! They never did anything to me nor can they! Here is a
little saying this is kid said to another: Sticks and stones may break
my bones and names will never hurt me! So, in light of this philosophy,
You are all my friends. Is something wrong with this?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: A Coffee-House Conversation with an Imaginary Nadja
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:51:49 GMT

In article <LAMBERT.92Dec14105324@nankeen.spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au>,
lambert@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Tim Lambert) writes:

> >>>>> On 8 Dec 92 06:36:59 GMT, boucher@csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) said:
> > (Tim Lambert) writes:
> I understand perfectly well how you can manufacture a trend by
> creative data selection.

I'm sure you do know this, *you* manufacture trends all the time.

> If you take four successive random numbers
> there is one chance in eight that they will form an ancreasing or
> decreasing sequence.

This depends on the limits of your random numbers.  If you allow any
number between -Inf and +Inf, then the probability that your new number
will be greater than the previous is 0.5 (it's not obvious that this will
be true if you limit yourself to the natural numbers or positive reals).

[As I recall there are a finite number of people in the world, so it isn't
 possible to have an infinite number of crimes commited by these people.]

If you reduce the available numbers to something finite, this is no longer
true, as the sets differ greatly in size.  You no longer have your nice
equal probabilities, and need to be more clever.  You can demonstrate this
easily by rolling a 100 sided dice (or write a program to give 4 random
numbers).  In fact, if you do this using random numbers between
0.0 =< N < 1.0, you will find that it's more like a ~4% chance.
Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself (obviously Fortran):

        integer*4 i,j,k,num
        real*4 x(4)
        num = 2**15
        k=0
        CALL SETRAN(-1)
        do i=1,num
                do j=1,4
                        x(j)=RAN(1.)
                end do
                do j=1,3
                        if(x(j).ge.x(j+1)) goto 10
                end do
                k=k+1
10      end do
        write(*,*)k
        end

you'll have to install your favorite random number generator.

> Your "trend" is nothing more than random fluctuations.

Perhaps, but it only has a 4% probability of occuring.

> You can read the article I cited for a proper statistical analysis.

I have yet to see you perform proper statistical analysis on your postings.
You attribute physical events to statistical fluctuations and, of course,
you never consider error analysis (which would make it obvious that your
"events" are lost in the noise).

> I don't think it is a good idea to let your political beliefs cloud
> your powers of reasoning.

I agree, Tim.  You should try it...  ;-)

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: 20/20 to crucify FFL holders
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:22:00 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: FFL, criminals getting FFLs, HCI agenda

In article <1992Dec15.175706.5813@guinness.idbsu.edu>, betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz) writes:

> another gigantic hole from abc: if sarah brady and the gungrabbers
> want a waiting period for a background check, then aren't they just
> a little concerned about the errors (that they so lovingly documented)
> in the NCIC?  am i missing something here???

Yeah, you're missing the prepared response, which is, "Then maybe we're
just going to have to make it LONGER so it can be performed BETTER."
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Guns, Registration, and the Second Amendment
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 05:58:05 EST
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
> 
> >Driving a car is not a Constitutionally protected civil liberty.  Owning and
> >carrying a gun is.  The two do not equate.
> 
> Uh, unless you agree with (thankfully) Ex-justice Burger that the 
> 9th and 10th amendments are "dog meat", you are absolutely incorrect.
> Nothing in the constitution reserves to the state the right to 
> drive a car or regulate same.  Therefore since the right is not 
> reserved for the government, it belongs to the people.

What the  9th amendment says is that there may be rights which are
independent of the Constitution and in no way dependent on the
Constitution for their existence, so what the first guy says is true.
If a right to drive exists, presumably as a corollary of a right to
travel, then it doesn't derive from the Constitution and would exist
even if there was no Constitution. I think a pretty good case could be
made that there is a right to travel that exists as part of the
traditional rights of a free people. To what extent a right to drive
could derive from that is arguable. A more accurate way of putting it
would be the right to operate motor vehicles on public thoroughfares,
since no one seems to be asserting that you can't drive on your own
property without the permission of the government or be a passenger
without the government's permission. It might be interesting to see
someone do an analysis along those lines. It might be interesting to
see if this also means that we also have a right to fly planes while
we're at it.

It seems to me what the Supreme Court was saying in Roe Vs. Wade was
that the right to privacy was always out there and they choose to take
judicial notice of it, since it was relevant to the case before them.

BTW, if there is a right to privacy, where does the Census department
get off threatening to throw me in jail if I don't tell them how many
bathrooms I have in my house? It seems to me that name, address, date
and place of birth are pretty much the limits of their constitutional
authority.


(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Black Leaders
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:42:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.225520.19203@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
}	Innes' main strength (IMO) are also his weaknesses, i.e. he is an
}	intelligent and dignified person that maintains his decorum and
}	seems to always act in an intelligent and civilized manner.  Sadly,
}	it seems what he needs to get more attention from the Black community
}	is to behave like an idiot bufoon, ranting and raving idiotically
}	in the fashion of the beloved Al Sharpton.  Since he seems unwilling
}	to stoop to this, it seems that he may never get the chunk of public
}	attention and support I feel he deserves.  Too bad; if Black America
}	were to wake up and get smart with Innes and CORE you'd see changes
}	you never thought possible IMO.  Of course, Innes would be dead inside
}	a few months and then perhaps it would be civil war... oh well :(.

What you describe isn't the way to get attention from the black community,
but the way to get attention from the media.

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Mail Order SKS
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:03:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.011735.10896@socrates.umd.edu> ice@socrates.umd.edu (Fredrik Nyman) writes:
>The NRA, however, has, and claims that as a student, the guy should
>have been considered a Mass. resident.

According to the BATF "Red Book", the NRA is right.  The question is
asked and answered in one of the "but what does this all mean" sections.

So, if the BATF is right, their pubs, which are supposed to be used as
guides by FFLs, are wrong.

-andy
--
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Black Leaders
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 06:03:59 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:

>All politicians do this.  I don't see much of Thomas Sowell or Walter
>Williams in the media either.  Williams was on Crossfire or some such show
>a while ago, but only as a guest.  I'd love to see him on as a regular.

Anyone know where to reliably read these two fellows?  They are by
far and away my favorite non-humor political commentators.  
The Atlanta Constipation and Urnal is ohhh to PC to ever think of
carrying more than a token Sowell and no Williams.  I'd prefer
to read them on-line but dead trees would do OK too.

I have a quote from Williams that everyone should contemplate carefully:

	"We can no more blame our loss of freedom on congressmen 
	than we can prostitution on pimps.  Both simply provide broker 
	services for their customers."

	John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Control: A modern, REALISTIC view.
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:23:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <LAMBERT.92Dec11021350@nankeen.spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au>, lambert@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Tim Lambert) writes:

> The act that is illegal is using any firearm owned for self defence
> for that purpose.  It is not illegal to use a firearm owned for some
> other purpose for self-defence.

Thanks for outlining for all of us just what a stupid, meaningless 
law it is, and just how ineffective it is destined to be.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Bad cops - a perfect example
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:04:09 GMT

dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:

	Cool name, BTW.

>And what you're missing is that the crooks already carry pretty much at will,
>so it doesn't seem to me that letting any Tom, Dick or Harry carry at will is
>going to make cops that much less safe.  Unless of course the citizen in
>question is another Rodney King, in which case they might be a little more
>respectful of his rights.  Either that or blow him away for no real reason,
>in which case they should lose their badges and go to jail.

	Did you *ever* hear of a real street cop complaining about Bernie
Goetz taking out a few muggers?  Ever see a real street cop write an
editorial letter against the situations given in "The Armed Citizen?"
Believe me, the cops know the criminals carry at will, but they also know
that an armed but honest citizen doesn't increase the threat to the police,
and in fact makes their job a bit easier.  For every armed robber a citizen
shoots, that's one less body the police have to carry out, one less felon
the police might suprise while checking doors on a warehouse, one less
bunk in the over-burdened jail being used, one less person willing to shoot
at them while recieving a moving violation, and one less person they have
to testify against in court, taking valuable time off of their street duties
so the criminal can get parole instead of an aquittal.

	Ask a cop, off-duty, what he thinks.  The vast majority will let
you know, in no uncertain terms, that they are thankful any time a
citizen defends himself and they don't have to clean up the mess
afterwords.  They will also let you know that they will attempt to bust
you as hard as they can should you act irresponsibly with that firearm.
Frankly, I don't expect nor want any different treatment.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: mjp@austin.ibm.com  (Michael J. Phelps)
Subject: RE: Mail Order SKS
Originator: mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:36:38 GMT
Reply-To: mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps)
Organization: IBM Kingston NY


In article <92351.141413JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
|>    According the piece in today's New York Times he purchased the SKS
|> on Monday in Pittsfield, Mass.  The Times calls the SKS a modified
|> AK 47 and labels the gun an "Assault rifle" several times in the article.
|> 
|>   My questions is did this young man comply with Massachusett's rather
|> strict firearms laws?  Did he have a Mass FID?  If not, how did he
|> legally purchase the gun?
|> 
|> Michael Gordon

According to the news (WTZA, kingston) ammunition was purchased via the mail -
and they said that the school "may have known about it [the ammunition]".  

-- 
Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com ..
                (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy         
 (and last but not least a disclaimer)  These opinions are mine..       
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Washington Post on Qat
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:14:14 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) writes:
>	The Washington Post is one of the very most biased "mainstream"
>papers you are likely to find.  Look up anything to do with guns in Infotrack 
>sometime.  WP, along with their rival for this, the NY Times, wrote about 95% 
>of the articles listed, and the bulk of them contain shameless BS.
>...
>	Who better?   I'm only disappointed that the Post is still in 
>business.

     Considering that its only local competition is the Rev. Moon's
neo-converatively-slanted _Washington Times_, I'm not surprised.
Personally, I prefer the weekly _City Paper_, which btw has a very
nice story on the anti-prohibition movement this week.

     Unfortunately, the biases of the _Post_ seem to reflect, by and
large, the biases of the local populace. Especially on gun control and
drug policy.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
      Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the
      Realm, Defender of the Faith, Emporer of Siberia" or
      "Director of Corporate Planning".
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: The pro-RKBA political spectrum (was Pro-choice/pro-gun stuff )
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:02:37 GMT

>>I _know_ that this is an oversimplification. I might accept in
>>less danger but not totally free of danger. BTW y'all second ammendment
>>rights are GONE in the peoples republic of Illinois.
>
>Does this second paragraph refer to something the news hasn't covered?  Are

No.

>you talking about the new Congressional "representatives" from Illinois?  Or
>the sweeps through housing projects in Chicago?

Well the chicago sweeps and the laws that spawned them effectively
nullify the right to keep arms and the state statutes have made it
illegal to bear arm "within the limits of any municipality". That
last one has been in force for some time. Of course there are exceptions
for the "right class of people".

Nothing new here just warning those who might contemplate moving
here. Of course if you bring a large block of voters with you...

>
>I know that's ONE state I'll never move to...
>
>    don

				mike
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns