HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Subject: Re: Beyond the Fall of Night
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:56:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.143738.13927@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:

[......]
>"Who cares?"  Besides, unless I missed something explanatory, he commits
>a major error.  There is a reference to the fact that the Moon has an
>atmosphere with some sort of permeable membrane to hold it in (I think). 
>In the first part, it had been millenia since the Moon had been destroyed
>in order to keep it from smacking into the Earth...
>   Oh well.

Yeah.  I noticed that.  And here we are wondering if _cover artists_ read the 
book their working from ;->


Chris Miller
>		-EMeyer
>
>-- 
>"Unstable condition--a symptom of life       | Eric A. Meyer (eam3@po.CWRU.edu)
> In mental and environmental change          |  Alumnus,  Beta Nu of Theta Chi
> Atmospheric disturbance--the feverish flux  |---------------------------------
> Of human interface and interchange-"  -N.P. |    "What do you think, sirs?"


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: disaacs@lata.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs)
Subject: Re: Jack the Bodiless -- Spoilers
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:30:45 GMT

In <31dmytm.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>I said 'spoilers'.

>I'm getting into this discussion late, because it took me till now
>to find an inexpensive copy of "Jack the Bodiless".  So, who is Fury?
>Given that May played fair in giving us enough clues to Hydra's
>identity, we should expect that she played fair with Fury, too.  So
>it's not some unknown lurking offstage.

>The obvious candidate is Denis.  This would explain Jack's negative
>reaction to him.  It's also consistent with Denis's lead position in
>the last Victor 'metaconcert'; with Denis's initial readiness to
>ignore the laws in order to rescue Jack; and with Denis's 2082 date
>of death.

>There are a couple of nagging problems.  First, since Denis passed
>the mechanical scan (or did he -- it's not obvious whether he was
>considered part of the 'dynasty') it would seem that at some level
>he is not aware of being Fury.  Second, it's hard to believe that
>Marc's twin, Matthieu, has no significance here.

There are really two questions.  1) WHO is Fury, and 2) WHERE does he
reside.

I am fairly convinced that Fury is some sort of incarnation
of Victor since, in the conversation between young Marc and Unifex, Unifex
say "I am not Victor Remillard or one of his creatures, but it is wise not
to forget about them" (or something like that).  Assuming Unifex is always
right, then Fury definitely has some of Victor in him.

As to where Fury lives, it has not been proven that he actually has to reside
"in" anyone.  He could just exist in space like a Lylmik.  However, if he
does reside in somebody, then we have to look at the clues.
 
 (i)  I don't think that Fury was on the Orb when Margaret was killed, since 
      the Hydra has to inform him of her arrival on the Ord.

 (ii) It seems that Fury was present at Jack's birth.  Who knew where 
      Rogi and Teresa were hiding out.  Only Denis and Marc, I think.

 (iii) At the Xmas celebration on the Orb (I think it was Xmas) Fury tells
       the Hydra that he must be going away for a while.  What does that
       mean?

 (iv) add more observations to your hearts delight.  I think I am
      going to have to read the damn book again!

-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 ____  ____  __  David Paul Isaacs ________________________________________
 _____ _____ __  Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering ________
 _____ ____  __  Carleton University ________________________________________
 ____  __    __  Ottawa, Ontario ___________________________________________
_________________disaacs@ccs.carleton.ca __________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF?  /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:32:38 GMT
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: kgpowe

In article <1992Jul26.193023.20522@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
> I just finished reading "Buffalo", by John Kessel.  (Thanks to
> Brad Templeton, btw).
> 
> I am left with two questions:
> 
> 1. What exactly about this story makes it SF?  Except for the use of
>    H. G. Wells as a character, I saw no SFnal elements at all.
> 
I agree with the above.  If the story is science fiction because it dealt with
real characters in situations that didn't happen, then a large amount of
'mainline' fiction is SF.

Joel
-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Portions of the preceding were recorded.  As for the rest, I quite fear that
 it was all in your mind" -- Alfred Hitchcock
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Science Fiction Book Club
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:07:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Jul19.200915.1@vax1.umkc.edu> nvaught@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>> In article <142e8pINNlsp@network.ucsd.edu> earharta@sdsc.edu writes:
>>>  Bad Points - 1) I HATE that stupid 'check this and send it in by
>>>                  such-and-such a date or get some books.'  I got a
>>>                  lot of books from them because I was soooooo lazy
>>>                  about sending in that card (like the music clubs 

>If I got a book I didn't order, I would send it back unopened, with return to
>sender on it.

I've sent them back *opened* (and resealed) many times, and always
gotten a refund with no questions asked.  I often forget whether I have
any orders outstanding, and besides, I'm willing to glance at an
unordered book to see if I might want to keep it.  I've been very happy
with the SFBC.
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: That Perfect Book...
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:28:03 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Distribution: na
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <36481@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> asm@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Amin Meghani) writes:

> I thought I was the only nut in the country riffling through
>the bookstore shelves to get that PERFECT-looking book.
>  Hey, maybe we should get together and form a club or something.
>How about SFFPB (SF fans for perfect binding)?

Amin -- you don't want to call it that.

Perfect binding (tm) is a very cruddy form of binding, which is best
used for manuals not intended to be used for a very long time, etc.

(Yes, I know that that's not what you meant -- but you don't want
people to think it is.)


			I cooked your meals, I cleaned your house,
			And this is how you pay me back
			For all my kind unselfish loving deeds?  HA?!?
			Well, you just wait, they'll find you yet,
			And when they do. . .
				-- "Napoleon XIV"

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:55:26 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <NICKH.92Jul23075557@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU> nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.182247.25176@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

>   In article <691@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:

>   [about `hiding out']

>   >Also, in some cases where this sort of thing was tried, the ones doing it
>   >*won* the war (read Vietnam).

>   Note that we didn't have the will to nuke them.  That won;t be a
>   problem in a Motie style disaster.

>Do you really believe that would have helped?

>The big problem for the US in Vietnam, if their goal was to perpetuate
>their installed government, was that the majority of people in South
>Vietnam hated that (right-wing dictatorship) government, and therefore
>supported the insurgents, most of whom were South Vietnamese. Nuking
>the people is not going to make them happier about their country being
>steadily destroyed by your forces.

The idea was to nuke North Vietnam to the point where any kind of
organization was impossible.

If you read the autobiographies of people like General Giap you will
learn that the Norht Vietnamese support was vital to the Viet Cong and
that Northenr cadres filled extremely important roles. 

Moreover, during Tet the Viet-Cong lost their ability to project
force.  They were never agai a major threat.  In fact, when South
Vietnam finally fell it was to regular North Vietnamese army
divisions.

Given these historical facts it seems likely that eliminating Norht
Vietnam would have solved the problems.

Also, I would like you evidence that the majority of the South
Vietnamese supported the insurgents.  Most historians of the war
disagree.  The majority of the South Vietnamese didn't give a damn and
supported whoever was pointing a gun at them at that particular
moment.

>Whoops, bit off-subject there. I still believe the `hide-out' plan
>could work for Moties to quicken the Cycles (and if the right Moties
>hide out, possibly to stop the Cycles). They just need to find
>somewhere sufficiently unguessable to hide in. I still think the Oort
>cloud is the best bet.

Well, that's a bit more possible until you think about it for a
moment.

Given Motie physiology, if the Oort cloud is inhabitable then the
Moties are going to fill it up.  It's lebensraum.  Now what happens to
our hiders?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Fantasy winning Hugos
Date: 21 Jul 92 00:51:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: tdkt.711701461.F00002


 BT> The Hugos, of course, allow fantasy, even though they are the World SF
 BT> Award and there is a World Fantasy award.   On the other hand, I doubt
 BT> high fantasy would ever win, though it might qualify.

The World Fantasy award isn't nearly as old as the Hugos, though.

Off the top of my head (but verified), Poul Anderson won for "The
Queen of Air and Darkness" (novella) in 1972, I'd consider that High
Fantasy.

Nearby on the list is Fritz Leiber's "Ill Met in Lankhmar", novella,
1971.  Then back in 1968 there's Fritz Leiber's "Gonna Roll the
Bones", novelet.  Jack Vance's "The Last Castle" in 1967, Poul
Anderson's "No Truce with Kings" in 1964.  Robert Bloch's "The
Hellbound Train" in 1959.  Jack Vance's "The Dragon Masters" in 1963.
I vaguely recall that both Vances on that list may have
behind-the-scenes SF explanations, maybe they shouldn't count if
that's true.  For that matter,  McCaffrey's "Weyr Search" won as a
novella (tie) in 1968, and the SF underpinnings of that universe
hadn't been revealed yet back then.

The pickings don't look so good more recently.  I thought one of
Card's Prentice Alvin books had won, but if so I can't find it on any
of my lists so I'm probably wrong.  

 * Origin: Terraboard, Mpls MN: Home of the SF echo (1:282/341.0)
From: cbrunson@vermont.East.Sun.COM (Chuck Brunson - Sun BOS Corporate Software Engineering)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Jack the Bodiless -- Spoilers
Date: 21 Jul 1992 19:49:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: cbrunson@vermont.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: vermont.east.sun.com

I think Fury may be the reincarnation of Felice (She was sort of killed
by Elizabeth and Marc at the end of the Nonborn King, its mentioned at
the beginning of The Adversary also). Before Fury came along I had suspected
that she might also have something to do with the great carbuncle on Rogi's
keyring, since she was conatined in a red crystal. I guess that at this point
I really don't know but thats a Good Thing.


---
UPA Masters Team: Red Menace			Chuckie B.
1991 Nationals Masters Champions		Sun Microsystems BOS
BACUL Team: 	  RADial ACTive			chuck.brunson@East.Sun.COM
Boston Area Corporate Ultimate League		Work Phn. (508)671-0527
 You're NEVER too old to play!
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:12:31 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <771@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)  
writes:
> In article <young.712301210@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> young@elec.uq.oz.au  
(Steven Young) writes:
> |Just re-read Daniel Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon" (1959?).
> |(Do you hate 'Just read ..., and thought it was brilliant' posts?   
Sorry)
> |
> |I can remember reading it years ago, but I think I read a condensed
> |(short story/novella) version.  Could this be true?  The novel was  
much
> |more satisfying.
> 
> Yes, I believe the condensed form is called "Charli".
> And, yes, the full length novel is better.

No, the "condensed form" (which came first, by the way) was also
called "Flowers For Algernon." It won a Hugo. The movie was called
Charley.

I liked the short version, by the way.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:48:15 EDT
From: <JMH131@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: awful Delaney

 Not long ago, I read Samuel R. Delaney's _Flight from Neveryon_.  It was one
 of the WORST books I ever read.  It was part of a series (I'm glad I didn't
 start with the first book), and, somehow, I thought there was a reason behind
 the writing, and so, took on the reading of the book with great fervor.  Well,
 besides the quotes introducing the stories, which I found completely
 incomprehensible, and the Appendix at the end, which I found completely
 incomprehensible, the stories themselves were just plain DULL reading.  There
 was one GOOD part in the whole book.  That part where the one guy confronted
 the border god in total darkness, but that only lasted several moments, and
 was not WORTHY to be printed on the back cover as a highlight of the book.
 In my opinion, Delaney's _Neveryon_ series is more of a textbook of some sort
 for intelligent individuals with large vocabularies.  Alas, I fail there.
 It was a rather disappointing experience.  IMO, Kurt Vonnegut's _Breakfast of
 Champions_ was much better.  While I'm talking about awful fantasies, I might
 as well mention Harry Harrison's _Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers_.
 It was LOUSY.
--John, whose favorite fantasies are P.J. Farmer's _Riverworld_ and _World of
 Tiers_ series, S. King's _Dark Tower_ series, and the _Thieves' World_ series.
 I never finished P.J. Farmer's _The Dungeon_ series, but I liked what I read.
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Organization: SCTC
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:48:28 GMT

jsinger@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer) writes:

>Actually, this idea of hiding out in the Oort cloud might prove a possible way
>for an enterprising (read:  Crazy Eddie) master to try and break the Cycles.
>The Oort cloud may not be habitable, but say one master decides to send his
>entire "family," including himself, on a long round-trip cometary orbit 
>through the Oort cloud.  (They have the suspended-animation techniques from
>the original light-sail probe.)  The master times his ship to come back in the
>middle of the Moties' most savage period of breakdown, whereupon with his own
>loyal Warriors he takes over the planet.  His last step is to impose the birth
>control hormonal shots for all other Masters except himself and direct, loyal
>progeny.  He's got the entire planet under his thumb, with control of the
>Warriors, mediators, and all masters.  Bingo.  Cycles broken.

>Oh, yeah, there might be some practical problems along the way, but in theory
>this ought to work.  Any suggestions as to why it hasn't happened?


This depends upon him always restricting breeding successfully.  So,
over several thousand years of relying on ``direct, loyal progeny,''
someone cheats.  Bingo.  Cycles restarted with minor (2000 year)
fluctuation.

Remember what the book said:  ``someone always cheats.''

	Mike

-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                       (612) 482-7420
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Daniel Keyes
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:32:42 GMT
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

In article <9207311519.AA29378@rutgers.edu> FARMERMJ@VAX1.BHAM.AC.UK writes:
>Since there'e been discussion of whether Flowers for Algernon was based on
>a real case, I thought I'd mention something concerning another Keyes work:
>
>A few years ago, there was an article in New Scientist about multiple
>personalities, and what they showed about the workings of the mind.  This was
>all very well, but the author quoted, to demonstrate her theory, the case
>reported in _The_minds_of_Billy_Milligan_ by Daniel Keyes.  I'd never heard of
>the book, but the author's name made me do a double-take.  The author of the 
>article apparently thought that it was the story of a real person, rather 
>than a novel!  So if you think that Keye's characters sound real, there are 
>people out there who actually think they *are* real. (I only got that issue of
>New Scientist, so I never found whether any correspondent broke the bad news to
>the author)


_The Minds of Billy Milligan_ is indeed a non-fiction book.



Regards,

rafem
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gerrold
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:27:08 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <224211@dupa.UUCP> root@dupa.UUCP (George Brickner) writes:

>  Look for _A Season For Slaughter_ in early 1993. Book #5 won't be too far
>behind #4 (according to Gerrold).

And we all know how reliable those promises have been in the past.

I've figured it out. I've been waiting for book #4 for SO LONG that I have
lost books 1-3. Now I need to re-purchase them so that I can refresh my
memory before reading 4.

What an amazing marketing ploy.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
 "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech,
  or of the press..."
  Freedom of Speech. It's not just a good idea. It's the law!
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Jack the Bodiless -- Spoilers
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:22:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I said 'spoilers'.

I'm getting into this discussion late, because it took me till now
to find an inexpensive copy of "Jack the Bodiless".  So, who is Fury?
Given that May played fair in giving us enough clues to Hydra's
identity, we should expect that she played fair with Fury, too.  So
it's not some unknown lurking offstage.

The obvious candidate is Denis.  This would explain Jack's negative
reaction to him.  It's also consistent with Denis's lead position in
the last Victor 'metaconcert'; with Denis's initial readiness to
ignore the laws in order to rescue Jack; and with Denis's 2082 date
of death.

There are a couple of nagging problems.  First, since Denis passed
the mechanical scan (or did he -- it's not obvious whether he was
considered part of the 'dynasty') it would seem that at some level
he is not aware of being Fury.  Second, it's hard to believe that
Marc's twin, Matthieu, has no significance here.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
From: wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!shiva@cactus.org (System Smof)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: awful fantasy alert
Date: 30 Jul 1992 11:09:09 -0500
Organization: The SMOF-BBS: Science Fiction Online Since 1985 [512-467-7317]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

stas@soda.berkeley.edu (Stan Malyshev) writes:

>
>I'd just put down the grim creation of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman
>called _Dragon Wing_ of the Death Gate Cycle series, after reading about 20
>pages.
>
>Their style of writing is that of an average high-schooler;  I was surprised
>to see this in published form.
[...]

Why, then, do you suppose that Weis and Hickman are bestselling authors,
richer than Croesus, in spite of the criticisms of their betters? Targeted
marketing techniques so devastating that it would make a Scud missle leak
rocket fuel all over its launching pad, perhaps? :-)
From: flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Redwall by Brian Jacques
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:13:46 GMT
	<1992Jul27.175121.27738@u.washington.edu>

Ethan A Merritt:
>	Wind in the Willows meets Robin Hood, no I mean Watership Down
> as written by Robert Louis Stevenson, nonono I mean Mrs. Frisbee and
> the Rats of Sherwood Forest.

I read Redwall, Mossflower, and Mattimeo, and though I liked them,
they seemed curiously insubstantial.  I don't know if they will have
the same staying power as The Wind in the Willows or Watership Down.
Perhaps when I find Mariel of Redwall, I'll read the whole series
again and see how it suffers rereading.

Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH I'm still undecided upon, partly
because the sequels written by Jane Leslie Conly confuse the issue.
The sequels, while good, are not very much like the original.  The
second sequel even changes the rules (so that rats can talk to
humans), in order to explore different themes.
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Subject: Re: Great SF Shorts
Reply-To: at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 13:23:41 GMT


Try the Heinlein collection once titled "6 X H" now retitled
"The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag." The Big H takes
a crack at most of the themes of SF in that one:

alternate reality -- "The Unpleasant Profession . . . "
time travel -- "All You Zombies"

and lots more (which I'm too lazy to look up just now).

It also holds to a minimum the preaching H instilled into
some of his more famous (and later) works.


-- 
"It's money, and adventure, and fame. It's the thrill of a lifetime.
 And a long sea voyage that starts at six o'clock come morning."
     -- Carl Denham
        "King Kong"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Motie threads --- a note of appreciation
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:31:11 GMT

In article <1hCrFx#6C9Dhk42WlGt4pfpyT6BnsK7=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>I'd like to take a moment and congratulate everyone involved on the high
>quality of the postings dealing with the Motie problem.
>
>These threads have been going on for weeks.  They've supported intelligent
>discussions of ethics, population biology, speculative physics, and several
>other subjects bearing on the Niven/Pournelle universe.  There have been
>some spirited arguments but I have yet to see a flame.

And I don't intend this to be one; but isn't it worth pointing out that
such traffic belongs in rec.arts.sf.science?

c