HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: *Welcome* to Cabal Talk
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 20:18:15 GMT


In article <71892@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew
Melmon) writes:

>I wouldn't worry too much about any meetings of the
>nefarious Grand Cabal.  Perhaps changing the initial letter
>to 'B' - thus making it the Grand Babal - would be more
>indicative of what would likely transpire behind closed
>doors (certainly, it wouldn't be anything sexual...)

Please, no envy.

I think the script was *great*, much better than your
average dinnerware.  Are you *sure* you haven't been taking
night classes at the AArneson College of Camp, sometimes of
West Hollywood, but usually all over the lot?

If you insist upon changing the name, would you object
awfully to Grand Babar?  That's more fun.

However, the cabal (remember it doesn't exist) would
*indeed* be doing sexual things, some of its most
illustrious members in virtual Broad Daylight, certainly not
behind closed doors, according to taped reports.

>(with many thanks to Michael Meyers, Madonna, and Roseanne)

Naturally.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:40:38 GMT

In <1992Aug28.202150.13394@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>Let me get this...uh...straight:  Bob and Alan and Matthew
>would have us all act like "normal" gays in the dubious belief
>that this might give clueless straights a better image of
>homosexuals and make it easier for "normal" gays to emerge
>from their closets.  When some of us respond in our glorious
>diversity that we have other priorities, like maybe realizing
>our full-individual-human-potential-unfettered-by-the-strait-
>jacket-of-irrelevant-gender-roles-and-expectations, and if
>those guys had half a clue between them they'd realize that
>those same clueless straights will hate them just as viciously
>whether they're in three-piece gray flannel or a fucking tutu,
>but thanks all the same...

Let me see if I understand this: I suggest that maybe Bob has a point, and
I state something about my *personal* likes and dislikes about something to
do with *behaviorisms*, get flamed for it, and I'm supposed to smile
sweetly and walk away saying, "Gosh, how silly of me"?

And you think *I* don't have a clue?  Puh-*leeze*.

I don't think *anyone* should be the target of mindless discrimination.
Period.  I also don't think morons like you have a clue as to how to
*really* defuse that discrimination, other than to point fingers and cast
half-truths about others to show the world how *baaaad* they are.

Try reading *all* my posts.  You might learn something.

--

 ________________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/ "Are you afraid I'm jeopardizing my secret identity, Ned?  I don't     \/
     *have* one, remember?"  --The Black Condor, _Black Condor_ #5
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGA
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 10:40:45 GMT


In article <65098@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com
(Frank - Swilling) writes:

]Our historically hip Arne Adophson sez:

]Sargon II of Assyria (ruled 721-705 BC), consolidated the Assyrian
]empire.  He concluded the siege of Samaria in Palestine and conquered
]Cyprus, Armenia, and Babylonia.  His method of retaining power was
]to deport hostile tribes.

]I have to admit, I'm chuckling over that one.  Very clever, Jess.
]You are still a *wicked* *evil* boy for butchering Sarver's name,
]but at least you stabbed with a sharp blade.

The point, the point!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: place for vacation  Dec 18-Jan 14
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 20:42:15 GMT


   Anyone have suggestions where to get away from everything for
   a month?  This is going to be the 'bitch' semester of all times
   and I will need massive R&R.

   Requirements:   warm/water/motss friendly/not horrendously expensive
                   NO  phone/screaming kids/noise
                   have passport, will travel.
                   Dec 18 - Jan 14 (both dates are flexable <> 2)

   
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Pepsi
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 02:30:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep2.003039.27298@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>Uh-huh.
>
>I really hate those Pepsi commercials, don't you?

I haven't seen them.  Is there more to them than the usual bone-grinding
heterocentrism?

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: the openness of USENET
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: we are talking in public
Organization: practicing faggots
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:09:00 GMT

posting to a newsgroup is talking in public.  you have to assume that
your words *might* find their way to absolutely anyone, and you're
entitled to act as if other posters realize this (because they should).

after i posted chunks of my literary-porn novel-in-progress a year
ago, a (gay) colleague of mine at ohio state came back from a
conference in europe with the news that lots of lots of (straight)
linguists in europe had been reading the stuff and found it "amazing"
(though i'm not sure what judgment that word describes).  and every so
often a (straight) linguist in the netherlands who used to be in my
department at ohio state writes me about my soc.motss postings; he
seems to read all of them that have anything to do with linguistics,
plus at least some others.

so i figure any random person *might* eventually read my words.

on the other hand, there are so many postings on soc.motss, and they
usually diffuse so slowly (if at all) outside the newsgroup, that for
most of us the chances are small that any particular non-reader will
see what we've written.  this is one of the things that makes
soc.motss not a bad place to start the coming-out process.  you get
the relief of saying "i'm gay" in public; you get some support from
other people who've been through similar experiences; and you probably
are not informing everybody you know, yet, but if you eventually do so
through posting to soc.motss the news comes to them in an indirect and
nonconfrontational way.

any random person (even a soc.motss reader) might *not* ever see my
words.  this means i don't in general know who has and who hasn't, and
that allows me not to care about it.  that feels good.

arnold
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Don't faint dead away but...
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:36:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep2.043626.8078
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <65099@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I do hope you mean "re-scanning" by the above, since if you try
>to convert from a GIF to a JPEG, you won't gain much in the way
>of storage space, and stand an excellent chance of utterly
>ruining the image with artifacts.  A dithered 256-color image is
>most definitely NOT appropriate source material for a JPEG.

I just took a GIF image of you, George, which was 60K, and using
"good" quality (whatever THAT means, but it's what I used generally) 
compression, converted your image to JPEG.  The file went from
60K to 20K, and loss artifacts were minimal, even at 4X magnification
on a 24-bit screen.  Maybe I should have tried it on someone on
whom artifacts would be more noticable. :-)

I'd probably be most inclined to try this on the large files there,
and only replace them if I couldn't tell an important difference,
and possibly rescan photos now that I have a decent scanner.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: move to canada, eh?
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:19:08 GMT
 <manz.714898888@ee.ualberta.ca>
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of Maine System

well, i was thinking about moving to canada anyway.  bush has
explicitly stated that he doesn't like gay families and the
whole idea of lesbians raising kids, and i'd certainly move
to another country before i would allow someone to take my daughter
away!!!!!
                                     -ailsa
From: csjgp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jim Pierson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:15:15 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

I'm one of the many persons who read soc.motss on a regular basis, but
seldom post.  I've been reading this thread for some time, however, and
it really bothers me.

I used to feel much as Mr. Sarver does.  This was ten or twelve years
ago, when I was still very much coming to terms with myself.  I have in
common with Mr. Sarver military service (mine was in the Army), and I
think that was part of what contributed to those thoughts.

Needless to say, I no longer feel the same way Mr. Sarver does, (and I'm
a much happier person.

The thing that pains me about this thread is that everyone seems bent on
beating the 'other guys' down rather than discussing any issue.  I
wonder if anyone else reading the thread has read <After the Ball> by
Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen.  The book outlines a possible strategy
for gays in the USA to help straight society "conquer its fear and
hatred of Gays...".  Many of the actions they suggest make use of some
of the same kind of thinking Mr. Sarver has been spewing forth.  The
difference is that Kirk and Madsen present their ideas with little
judgement, and stating full knowledge and sympathy for other positions.
While I do not agree with everything they put forth, I feel they raise
many interesting points to ponder and discuss.

Does anyone else know the book?  If so, I'd really like to hear your
opinions of it (and it's relationship to the issues at the bottom of
this thread's 'flamefest'.)

Jim Pierson                      csjgp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sexuality as a private matter
Date: 29 Aug 92 16:57:16 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) comments on Jack
Hamilton's observation that straight folk don't keep their sexuality
to themselves and wonders why anyone's sexuality should be
considered private:
 >surely this is as important a fact about people as their sex, or
 >age, or occupation, or for goodness sake, *hobbies* (about which
 >people exchange information publicly all the time), right?  it's
 >something that is relevant to new people you meet, and of course to
 >your friends.  it's information they need and (should) want, if they
 >are to treat you in any but the most superficial fashion.

In the last couple of years (more or less since returning to
Manhattan after having been in Princeton) I've been realizing how
interested I am in people's sexual orientation.  I don't mean that
of my friends, but that of people I see on the street.

It used to be that a motos pair immediately suggested "couple" to
me, unless I knew otherwise.  I certainly knew better than this; I
was (very mildly) victimized by such an assumption when I was often
seen in the company of a colleague with whom I was working on a 
long-term project.  Rumors abounded.  (Fortunately, our respective
spouses weren't hurt and each of us was more flattered by the
assumption than otherwise.)  At that time I wouldn't think of a
motss pair as a couple unless something else about them proclaimed
them either to be a couple or proclaimed them (or one of them) to be
gay-- hand holdings, pink triangles, explicit tee shirts-- some
index. 

Now, you know, I can't tell.  Especially with women.  Especially
with fairly athletic women my age or a little older.  

It's not a puzzle that yells "solve me" in quite the same way
someone's ambiguity of gender does.  It's more of an intellectual
puzzle:  What are my clues, how can I tell.  There's really no more
reason to smile at a motss pair that are a couple than at one who
aren't.  Is there?

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Insults
Date: 26 Aug 1992 10:57:14 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <71676@apple.Apple.COM> 
mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes [quoting some psycho-babble]:
>
> >>"Although many denigrations stem from, and perpetuate,
> >>collective self-hatred, at least some undermine the
> >>oppressive cognitive structure, attacking those who deny the
> >>group."
>
> Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that's all *one* sentence.  

One quite straightforward sentence.

> I have tried,
> several times, to figure out what the spook means by 'undermine the
> oppressive cognitive structure.'  

Are "you" insinuating that Stephen Murray is a ghost, a spy,
African American, what?  The phrase, in any case, is quite
clear.

> To undermine is to make weaker, yes?  

Very good, "Matthew"!

> Does he mean to imply that the denigrations are an attempt to
> escape from the oppression of others - by, in effect, substituting
> an oppression from within the sub-culture itself?  

No, Stephen Murray doesn't mean to imply that.

> Has the Marquise (I think I shall stick with Marquise, rather 
> than Madmoiselle, 

I've already told "you" that the word is spelled "mademoiselle".

> in reference to The Grand Faggot) misquoted, and perhaps used the word
> 'undermine' for what should be 'underpin' 

No, sorry, "Matthew".  I quoted correctly.

> - whereby the denigrations
> would therefore become a force used to define an 'acceptable' 
> structure of behavior within the sub-culture?  Tools, as it were,
> to punish those who *didn't* belong?

That isn't what Stephen Murray wanted to say, so he didn't.

> I confess, my mind is weak.  The spook has succeeded with his 
> smokescreen.  The psyc-speak doth confound me.

Back to the drawing boards, Apple!

> In any event, the Marquise has posted a piece describing, quite
> closely, the ebb and flow of discourse in these here parts.  The
> *thrust* of the piece seems to be that we take delight in sniping
> at each other.

"Sniping" isn't the correct word, and in any case that's only one
thrust of the piece in question.

Arne
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Peter Gomes
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:56:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug25.235642.9459
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <=mny9!h@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>I have been trying to determine if thi Peter Gomes is  the same Peter Gomes
>THE NEW REPUBLIC referred to in a piece on Gay Republicans in June. They
>mentioned some guy who was gay and whose last name was Gomes and had something
>to do with Reagan's inauguration.

Warren Goldfarb reminded me the other day that Gomes IS a Republican.
Pretty scary.  That doesn't answer your question but it's still pretty
scary.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: eating at Furr's
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:50:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep3.075036.23776
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Sep3.054747.13386@wam.umd.edu> jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N.
Shaumeyer, who I've missed) writes:
>If pressed, I *might* consider sharing my reflections on the Photon
>Correlation Spectroscopy meeting.  

Oh, do it! You know how much academic speak turns some of us on!

>[It confirmed my feeling that scientific meetings simply are *not*
>cruisy things.]

Is this true? Why? Is it true for heterosexuals, as well?

How would having a "lesbigay lunch" at a scientific meeting be
received? I've been to exactly one academic conference in my life -
the Artificial Life conference - and I was completely at a loss for
what to do with the few hours I had away from presentations. I would
have been most grateful if someone at the conference had organized a
motss-type event, not so much because I wanted to cruise but just to
give me an excuse to rub shoulders with some people. The food in Santa
Fe is great, but I can have myself for company anywhere.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Homosexuals were invented for an episode of Barney Miller
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 21:44:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug17.110834.310@news.Hawaii.Edu> <1992Aug18.012210.27894@riacs.edu>

>     >>pleasure. Do not do it, it is mean and nasty. My original message was
>     >>intended to be sarcastic, and I regret that it was possible for
>     >>someone to read it and think I was serious.
> 
> Well, that'll teach YOU not to leave off those smiley faces!!!!

Why bother with smiley faces?  Sentient readers don't need them.  They are
merely for the convenience of morons, so why bother?  If the idiots get
upset, maybe they'll burst a blood vessel and die before breeding, thus
sparing the world more idiots.

--Tim Smith

ps: :-)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How evil are the Republicans?
Date: 26 Aug 1992 10:27:24 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <mcmelmon-240892130730@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

Hi "Matthew"!

> My poor, feeble little mind...  It did *completely* forget about
> this string.  How kind of JA to remind me...  And what, to my glee,
> should I find but a missive from Madmoiselle du West Hollywood.

I said I'd only let you get by with it once.  So make up your
"mind", "Matthew", am I "Madame Adolphson" (Mme), or "Mademoiselle
Adolphson" (Mlle)?

[...]
> How very clever of you, Mdme., to leave nothing to bite. 

That's "Mme", "Matthew".  While you're at it, you should
have the Apple people fix your list of cliches.

Arne
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:43:22 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:

>                                         ...In fact, I can occasionally
>lapse into a two-second "camp" phase with certain friends, but I generally
>feel slightly queasy afterward...

Oh, Mary -- get over it.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What's a "beaner"?
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:24:56 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) says:

>There's an ad on TV about prejudice and hate.  It starts out with a white
>screen, then the word "faggot" appears in one corner, followed by "nigger"
>in the opposite corner.  Then "beaner" shows up.  What's a beaner?
>
>--Tim Smith
>
I believe "Beaner" is a durogitory term for Mexican or Mexican-American.
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy)
Subject: How many homosexuals did the Nazis exterminate?
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Kalamazoo College
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:20:49 GMT

I'm interested in finding out how many homosexuals were killed in Nazi
extermination and concentration camps during World War Two specifically
because they were homosexual.  If you know, or if you know a source
where I might find out, please drop me a line.

Email only;  if there are requests, I'll summarize.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy      Internet: k044477@kzoo.edu      AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "It's bad enough to send a rude message to another via such an anonymous
  channel [as email].  To flame someone on an open forum is, to me, the
  height of insensitivity."                                 - P.J. Plauger
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: daz@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Dazza Primm)
Subject: Re: Buck Rogers (was: research on the gay male voice)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:48:11 GMT

fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>:I refuse to stand by and hear the movie Flash Gordon maligned. That is
>:one of the most *fun* movies I have seen in a long time. Maybe you
>:have to watch it in a crowd of obnoxious self-conscious intellectuals
>:who are all stoned or drunk.

I enjoyed Flash Gordon a lot as well. It was a lot of fun watching Brina
Blessed being noisy as usual, Timothy Dalton doing his Errol Flynn
impersonation, and Sam Jones doing his 'i cant act' impersonation :-)
Music by Queen was good though...

Daz.


--
  Darren (Dazza) Primm, Dept EE Eng, Melb Uni, Parkville, 3052, Australia
 "What's the point in being grown up, if you can't be childish sometimes!"
   Internet: daz@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au  [dazza@ecr.mu.oz.au]  IRC: Family
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Peter Gomes
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:56:44 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <=mny9!h@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>I have been trying to determine if thi Peter Gomes is  the same Peter Gomes
>>THE NEW REPUBLIC referred to in a piece on Gay Republicans in June. They
>>mentioned some guy who was gay and whose last name was Gomes and had something
>>to do with Reagan's inauguration.

>Warren Goldfarb reminded me the other day that Gomes IS a Republican.
>Pretty scary.  That doesn't answer your question but it's still pretty
>scary.
Hmmm, another Gay Black Republican named Gomes from Harvard? I doubt that
there is another. I just don't remember what the exact connection to Reagan
was, but it was mentioned in the ``Pink Elephants'' story in THE NEW REPUBLIC
and made me feel quite nauseous. Also reading quotes from JUstin Raimondo
[ex-head of Buchanan for President Campaign in San Francisco, who is a 
homosexual] is always enough to make me lose my lunch.
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
According to the January 5, 1992 _New York Times_ 0.1% of all abortions in the
United States occur in the third trimester.