HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edhresko@hresko.EOS.NCSU.EDU (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: WANTED: Info &/or FAQ on getting FFL in CA
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:45 GMT
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.



|>Howdy:
|>
|>I was told by an acquaintance (FFL holder) that the feds now require 
|>state approval for issueing FFLs (or something like that). Is there 
|>a FAQ about getting FFLs in CA?? Any other info would be appreciated 
|>as well.
|>
|>Thanx, Eddie 

	I didn't need anything from the State of N.C when I got mine.  I did
need to get a privilage license to sell guns here, but that is related to the
business aspect, not the actual acquisition of an FFL.  I simply called the 
area BATF (look in your phone book) and asked for an application.  I got the
FFL exactly 28 days after my 21st birthday.  I have had more problems obtaining
the proper tax forms than I had getting my FFL. 

	Eric
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168*
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         *
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    *
******************************************************************************
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun show schedule wanted!
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:44:04 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

I would appreciate any info (Date/time) on upcoming GUN SHOWS around
Los Angeles area. Thank you very much. 
BTW, has anyone gone to the SOF convention in Vegas in the pass? I'm
wondering should I take a couple of days of my vacation and attend
the show in this upcoming September. I would appreciate any info
and comments. Thanks again.

  == Minh ==
  minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov
From: barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:48 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


#In article <11883@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
##...
##This is a new form of Kalifornia madness.  I don't know if anyone has
##been convicted or not, but the last time my wife went shooting at the
##indoor range in Cotati, CA, the rangemaster warned her that Cotati
##Police had taken to sitting outside the range, and stopping people
##coming out of, or into the range, and inspecting their handguns.
##They were using the "ridiculous interpretation" of the Kalifornia
##law to confiscate guns from people who had a loaded magazine in 
##the same bag as a gun.  No effect for my wife, she has a permit
##to carry, but it's pretty amazing to think that the Cotati PD has
##enough time and energy to engage in this sort of madness.

I have heard the same thing from several ranges, but I find it interesting
that I have never observed this in person.  Nor do I know anybody who
as observed it in person.  Now, I shoot a lot.  I'm active in USPSA/IPSC and
various NRA competitions.  I hang out with people who shoot a lot and they
have never observed it.  Is this an urban legend?

Question to the net.  Has this happened to you or has this happened directly
to anybody you know?  Friend of a friend, overheard at the range, etc. doesn't
count.

I question this as an urban legend because California gun law has many
specific exceptions when going to or from a range.  My reading of the law would
seem to place loaded magazines when traveling to or from the range clearly in
one of the exceptions.  Not that I would want to test it in court.

Clayton, you read more law than I.  Do you think that this is covered in the
exceptions?

Regards,
  Barry.

-- 
Barry Needham          barry@uts.amdahl.com          USA (408) 992-2527
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Stupid Shotgun Tricks
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:22 GMT
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club


OK, now for a round of "Stupid Shotgun Tricks":

I once loaned a Remington 1100 to a friend to shoot sporting clays with.  On
the very first shot he took, he managed to grip the forearm so that his thumb
was covering one of the gas ports.  When fired, he got a nice burn on his
thumb.

I watched a guy one day shooting an OLD side by side, with outside hammers.  I
also learned that many of those old guns, when opened, will drop the hammers,
without warning.  The guy shot a single with one shell, and opened the gun,
forgetting about the other hammer.  Bang, went the gun, oops, said the shooter,
and there's a hole in the shooting stand.

When shooting skeet, never, *ever* let anyone load two shells on station 8. I
would guess I've seen this one twenty times, and it makes me crazy.  It works
like this: shooter loads two, and aims at the high house, to the left of the
squad.  He shoots, and then proceeds to rotate 180 degrees to the low house,
but by turning to his *left*, not the right.  Net result: he just pointed a
*loaded*, *safety off* shotgun at the whole crowd for a minute.  Most times,
these people never even knew they did it.

And the grand capper of stupid shotgun tricks is the guy who refuses to follow
reloading recipies, confident that he can come up with the most awesome shell
for that incoming dove shot.  I've now seen three barrels blown, two by the
same guy.  From what I can figure, he's living on borrowed time.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Do you want some guns?
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:09 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Aug23.181718.1@vaxr.llnl.gov>, yurick@vaxr.llnl.gov writes:
# A friend of mine is trying to sell the following:
# 
#	.........

Remember: sales in California now must be processed through a licensed
gun dealer.  It's a misdemeanor to buy or sell a gun (except for
curious and relics) directly except to family members.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What .22 cartridge?
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:27 GMT


Can't help on the identity of the cartridge, but the headstamp is
that of Fiocchi: G.F.L. = Giulio Fiocchi ???



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt AR-15/Sporter
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:35 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <24215@oasys.dt.navy.mil> shaver@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bryan Shaver) writes:
#So what are the main differences between the AR-15 and the Sporter?

The AR-15 came with a "evil" 20-round magazine, a bayonet lug, and space
for inserting an auto-sear.  The Sporters come with a PC 5-round mag,
no "evil" bayonet lug, and a block of metal blocking where you need
to put the auto-sear.
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HP ammo in other countries?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:58:23 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

Reading the Net the past few weeks, I have noticed that
several Non-US poster such as from Canada, Germany and
New Jersey :-), have stated that possesion of Hollow Point
ammo is not allowed, or is not allowed for defensive
purposes.  What I was wondering is: What do the Police
use in thes jursidictions?  Do they also follow the
NO HP law?  If not, couldn't someone force them to also
have to obey the NO HP law, or are there special exceptions?

Since this is rec.guns and not talk.politics please don't
post to rec.guns.  E-mail your response and I will condense &
E-mail to anybody else who is interested.  I'm only posting
this here since this was the group that the "NO HP" laws
were initally mentioned.

				Thanks,
                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:07 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Aug24.224445.20992@inmet.camb.inmet.com>, tas@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Tom Sprott) writes:
# I'm not a rec.guns reader, but the news story of Mr. Weaver (the fugitive holed
# up in Idaho) has made me curious about something.  His original federal weapons law
# violation was the possession of a sawed-off shotgun.  What is the purpose of 
# such a gun, and why is it illegal where a normal shotgun isn't?
# 
# Tom Sprott, tas@inmet.inmet.com

The purpose of such a gun is to kill at short range, especially under
conditions where careful aim isn't possible.  This can be legitimate
(such shotguns are used by the U.S. Marshall's Service for protecting
witnesses from professional hit men) or illegitimate (armed robbery
with such weapons is pretty common).

Why were they restricted?  I believe because they were so deadly and
so concealable.  Handguns are more concealable, but seldom as 
devastating a weapon at close range, and besides, handguns need to
be aimed with some care, unlike a short-barreled shotgun.  Such
shotguns were used in trench warfare by U.S. soldiers, much to the
consternation of the Germans.

Keep in mind that to make a sawed-off shotgun requires a hacksaw
and a few minutes of work.  This doesn't give me much confidence
in either Weaver's intelligence, or the strength of the case the
government has.  Some guy approaches him, asks to buy something 
that the buyer can make himself in a few minutes, and Weaver sells it?

Either Weaver is an idiot, or the government set him up.  Since
Weaver is apparently part of Aryan Nations, I'll lean towards the
"idiot" theory.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael Larish)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: CA gun laws
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:27 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico


	It's been a year or two since I've paid much attention to gun laws in
California.  I've heard mention of some new laws that require you to keep your
guns under lock and key in the home.  I've also heard mention of similar laws
about transporting guns in the car (ie having them in either a locked case or
with a trigger lock on them).  The last I knew, you could transport a gun in
a car if it was a) unloaded, b) out of reach (ie trunk) and c) with ammo
separated from the compartment the gun was in.

	If anybody could enlighten me as to the current laws or how they
might have changed, I'd appreciate it.

	Please send any responses via E-mail to nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu since
I don't always have time to read this newsgroup.

	Thanks!

-- 
Michael G. Larish       | Amateur Radio Callsign:  KD6CTZ
aka Nomad the Wanderer  | Golden Empire Amateur Radio Society (GEARS) - W6RHC
nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu | Chico State Amateur Radio Society (CSARS)
CSU Chico, CA           | rram FAQ Maintainer email: hamradio-faq@uts.amdahl.com
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:33:22 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9208311032.aa10582@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#Doug Gwyn writes:
##9mm is definitely not as effective a manstopper as the larger
##calibers.
#Standards? References?

Standards: demonstrated performance in gun fights.
backed to some extent by Evan Marshall's findings, also by simple
physical considerations.  Taken to an extreme, a torso hit by a 140mm
cannon is certainly more likely to stop an assailant than a torso hit
by any 9mm factory round.  The real question is how small is still
"big enough".  Before Super-Vel, clearly 9mm was not stopping as well
as .44 or .45 cal., and I'd go so far as to say that experts were
unanimous in that assessment, which was based on the existing results.
With a large variety of elaborate bullet designs, the situation is now
more complex, but the same physical factors should still be at work to
some extent, so all other things being equal larger calibers should
continue to be more effective.  (Larger momentum, broader cross-section.)
From: glaird@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: reloading & lead
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA


Tim Moore comments:

# And finally when someone talks about powders burning clean or dirty I have
# always interpreted this as an indication of how much residue is left in
# the gun (which is proportional to how hard it is to clean) as opposed to
# how much smoke it makes.  

   My comment about clean included both.  I have found W231 to produce less
smoke and less soot/garbage.  H110, produces lots of smoke, lots of soot, and
no garbage.  Hercules Blue Dot & 2400 produce moderate amounts of smoke,
some soot, and huge quantities of dirt/garbage.  AA produces moderate smoke,
more soot, and no garbage.
From: stevem@Solbourne.COM (Stephen Matson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 3/4" Weaver Scope mounts?
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:13 GMT
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO


   Has anyone ever seen 3/4" weaver type rings?


 Thanks

 Steve Matson
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W J Frames
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:32 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <13400028@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:

#/ iftccu:rec.guns / uunet.UU.NET@mimsy.boeing.com /  8:09 pm  Aug 22, 1992 /
##While perusing the S&W catalogs, I ran across an optional bobbed hammer
##called the NYPD*SP. Has anyone seen this hammer? How bobbed is it? can this
##be replaced by a RKI, or should I contact the factory? It's about 33 bucks.

#It would probably be cheaper to simply have the 'smith bob YOUR hammer.

I wonder--would grinding the hammer down lighten it enough so that you
might get misfires? I've thought of doing this myself, but have hesitated
for that reason. 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:15 GMT
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Clayton Cramer writes about short-barreled shotguns:

#  Such
#shotguns were used in trench warfare by U.S. soldiers, much to the
#consternation of the Germans.

I've seen this at least half a dozen times both in t.p.g and here.
And I've e-mailed a couple of people about this and both ignored me.
So I'm going to throw it out to rec.guns in general and ask if
*anybody* has a reference to short-barreled shotguns used in the
military.  The trench guns of WWI and WWII (including Win M97 and M12,
Stevens M520 and M620, etc., etc.) all had 20-in. barrels, which is a
full 2 inches over the limit.  Even the current issue Mossberg M590
has a 20-in. cylinder tube with 2-3/4" chamber, as per the original
spec.  The military has *never* used a "trench gun" with a short
barrel, at least not by that name.  Is there something I've missed?  I
think a few people seem confused about the US vs. Miller decision,
unless I am. :-)


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 s&w questions
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:40 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <9208261502.AA26301@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> by gonzalez@BBN.COM:

# I had a chance to confirm my suspicion at my favorite store last
# weekend.  The Taurus clones have a three-position lever: "safe", "fire"
# and "decock".  If you get excited, as you might in a self-defense
# situation, you can hit the lever too hard, overshoot the "fire"
# position and end up in "decock", which LATCHES.  The gun will not fire
# until you push it back to "fire".  The dealer agreed that he considered
# it a misfeature, and is the one thing about the Taurus clones he
# dislikes.

I've seen ones that DIDN'T remain in the down position.  I think they were all
.40S&W guns.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: more handloading info required...
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:17 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

Okay, so my friend and I decided on Lee handloading equipment.  It should 
arrive in a couple of days.  Now I have some very important questions:

We are interested in handloading 9mm and 10mm rounds, and own Glocks.  I 
know that Glocks can take very high pressures, and was wondering if anyone 
out there can give me the upper limits of what a Glock 17 and 20 can handle (
eg, a 10mm 185 gr JHP moving at 1800fps, or however else it should be 
stated).

Thanks.
From: jimf@iwtdr.att.com (James R Fehrenbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: More on jamming Mossberg 5500 MKII (works perfectly now)
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:16:23 GMT
Organization: AT&T


I took the gun apart this evening, worked the little shell stop mechanism
by hand several times, couldn't see anything awry. Went out and shot
a box and a 1/2 of game loads, sporting clay loads, and a few cheap
Federal dove loads, keeping the gun loaded with 3 shells at all times,
and the gun worked perfectly every time - no
hint of a jam. I'm thinking there may have been some powder or lead
caught under the shell stop mechanism preventing the other end from
swinging out far enough to stop the 3rd shell coming out of the
magazine and jamming the 2nd shell. Or the cheap Federal Dove loads 
I was using when the jamming occurred may have had slightly substandard
brass casing or something.

Anyway, think I'll stick to Remington or Winchester ammo and keep
the Mossberg - seems like a great shooting gun, especially for the 
price, and fits me well. I actually like the 26" barrel (as opposed
to the 28). Seems to improve the handling a bit but don't know how it
would do for duck hunting. I would guess OK with an extra full choke.
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: German Firearms Regulations
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:31 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Aug19.213818.17031@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#
#Can someone tell me what firearms, if any, the ordinary citizen is
#allowed to own in Germany?  How about tourists and/or US Military
#folk assigned there?
#
#Thanks much.
#
#The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
#Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
#3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
#Santa Monica, CA  90405

A German citizen, studying at another U.S. university, was taking a course
at IU this summer and was my guest at our range. He said that it was
nearly impossible to own anything without having a great deal of money
or leisure time needed to join a shooting assn. or take hunter training.
He said most of the laws were late 1930's vintage <and you know who was
running things then>.
-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rtaraz@wpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Taurus 3 way safty
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:14 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute


I finally baught a Taurus 92 after many people suggested it on this 
group.

any way, the 3 way safty will not cause any problems in a tense
situation. (maybe I sould first say how it works, if you flip it up,
its locked, middle is for firing, down is for decocking) and to go
from lock to fire you dont have to push the lever hard, but from fire
to decock you need to exert alot more force.

I hope I was clear on this!
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mail call
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:06 GMT


Just received Petersen's Handguns and Gun Week.

In Handguns there is an article on the 9mm 147 gr. JHP by Ed Sanow. He
gives it a decided thumbs down.

In Gun Week there is reprinted a letter from Ruger General Counsel
Sanetti to a California politician opposing the proposed ban on
firearms with a melting point of less than ~800 F. The intent of the
ban is to eliminate cast zinc as a material, but of course it would
also affect Glock. Curiously, Ruger doesn't produce any firearms
from either zinc or plastic (or do they?); perhaps the reaction to
Bill's TV appearance is having the desired effect.

[MODERATOR: Comments on this latter topic that Ed sneaks in here should
probably go to t.p.g. ... :-)  ]


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: CZ-75 misfires
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:16 GMT
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics


I took my newly purchased (2nd hand) CZ-75 to the range for the first time
today, and experienced 7 misfires in the first 20 rounds. I fieldstripped
the gun and gave it a quick cleaning and continued shooting, 3 misfires in
the next 30 rounds.

The ammunition was Finnish factory ammo ('Lapua' brand) which has functioned
perfectly in all other guns I've tried it in, including 2 other CZ-75's.

The gun is as already mentioned bought second hand, but the previous owner
has not to my knowledge altered or substituted the mainspring. Except for a
trigger action tuning the gun looks pretty stock to me.

I found out that the gun has the full profile (=heavy) firing pin and a
short and rather stiff return spring, will it help to buy a lighter firing
pin? I compared firing pin length with another CZ at the range, and it looks
good to me, it's not a short firing pin causing the problem.

Like I said, the return spring seems _very_ stiff to me, does cutting off a
small part of it sound like a good idea? Or is a lighter hammer the way to go?

If the gun was to beused for bullseye shooting I might consider giving it
some time and see how it develops, but I intend to use it in IPSC matches
and do not like the idea of having one or several misfires in the middle of
a match...

Any opinions will be appreciated!

regards,


ragnar