From: hem@maverick.col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey - Still no answer
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:23:13 GMT

In article <wys4TB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>chips@eskimo.celestial.com (:crp:) writes:
>
>> An acceptable answer to why honey is kosher is still waiting to be found.
>> The main thread at this point is that since the honey, like cows milk, is
>> not used by the 'animal' itself internally, therefore the stomach is 
>> just acting as a holding vessel. To support this , it may be noted that
>> pigs are used to dig up certain mushrooms with their snouts and mouths and
>> that these mushrooms are still kosher.
>> 
>> However, the problem remains that their is no other substance that is 
>> digested by a non-kosher 'animal' and considered kosher. So to reiterate
>> the basic question:
>> 			Why is bee honey kosher and tigers milk not?

As I point out below, milk is created within the body of the
animal using the nutrients as raw material and for energy.  Honey
is manufactured by being carried in the stomach (with some
processing) and regurgitated.  THe basic consideration is
different.

>> 
>> And PLEASE!, the bible only talks about DATE honey !
>> 
> From the "Encyclopaedia Judaica", vol.8, page 963:
>
>    HONEY (Heb. degash):.... In accordance with the rule "that which issues
>           from an unclean creature is unclean"  (Bek.1:2) it should follow
>           that bees' honey is forbidden since the bee belongs to the class
>           of unclean insects.The rabbis, however, permitted its use on the
>           grounds  that  honey is not the product of the bee; it is merely
>           stored in its body (Bek.7b).....     
>           
>    My question is: what would an entomologist say about the last sentence?    

The Encyclopedia Talmudis has a long article on the nature of honey
and the rules regarding its use.  There are three major
definitions of the word "Dvash" which we translate as honey.

1. The sweet sap of fruit in general.

2. The sweet juice of dates (date honey)

3. The sweet secretion of bees (bee honey)

The Tanach has instances of all three definitions.  The main
definition in the Torah is the first one, all kinds of sweet
liquids are called dvash as in the commandment not to use
"dvash" as part of a korbon or incense.  This includes all kinds
of fruit sweeteners as well as bee honey since it is
manufactured from fruit sources.

Rashi translates the "dvash" which Yonasan tasted in Shmuel I chapter 14 as cane
syrup and Tosfos in Meseches Brochos 36b speaks of sugar cane as
a source of dvash. The usage of dvash as bee honey can be found
in Devorim chapter 32 pasuk 13 (Haazinu) where Moshe Rabbeinu
speaks of obtainin dvash from a rock as well as Shimshon and his
riddle with the lion.  The meforshim write that the plain usage
of honey in the Torah is date honey as in the pasuk in Parshas
Aikev - Devorim chapter 8 pasuk 8 - where it describes Eretz
Yisroel as "... a land of olive oil and dvash".

The later sages use the term dvash as bee honey as in "cakes of
honey" in meseches uktzin or in the rule in meseches bchoros
page 7b that any other kind of insect must have the kind added
to the term dvash as a modifier.  Similarly, the colloquial use
of the term dvash as "honey" refers to bee honey as is seen in
the halach of nedarim [oaths - hem].  A person who forbids
himself the use of "honey" is considered to have meant bee
honey, while date honey always has the modifier attached.

The Encyclopedia points out that even though bee honey comes
from an "ohf tamei" [a non-kosher flying creature] it is still
edible and is not considered subject to the halacha that any
secretion of a nonkosher animal is nonkosher [such as pigs' milk
- hem].  The bee is considered to put the honey into its
body but not to manufacture it in its body [as is milk - hem]
since they ingest the pollen and convert it to honey in their
stomachs rather rather than creating it in the body [as a cow
does milk, using grass for energy -hem] (Meseches Bchoros 7b).
They then store the honey in their hives for later use.

By this reasoning, similar secretions from other insects would
also be kosher.  The example given is of insects called "Magazin
or Tzoraim" which are either a kind of bee found in the desert
(Dvorim Midbarios) or a kind of locust.  The gemoro in Meseches
Machshirim states specifically that the honey of Tzorain are
kosher and quotes Rabbi Yaakov for learning this from a pasuk in
Parsha Shmini (Vayikra chapter 11 pasuk 21) which in effect
states that a "sheretz" may not be eaten but that a secretion
("mashritz") of a sheretz may be eaten.  There are those who
disagree and state that this applies only to plain honey
(something which is referred to only as "dvash") while the honey
of other kinds of insects are excluded since they have the
nonkosher modifier as part of their name.

This is a machlokes [argument] among the rishonim with the RMBM
in his code in the section on Hilchos Maachalos Asuros [Laws of
Forbidden Foods] saying it is mutar and RMBN in his halachos on
Meseches Bechoros that it is asur.  However, they all agree that
we do not have to be worried about this since honey from other
insects is not used at all.  Thus any honey sold can be assumed
to be bee honey.

-- 
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
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