HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
dov
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Unicode and ligatures (was Re: font encoding morass)
From: dov@menora.weizmann.ac.il (Dov Grobgeld)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:37:18 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center.

Unicode will allow me to send a letter to anyone in the world, or
read any text document, mixing English, Swedish, Japanese, Hebrew,
Amharit (if it is included in Unicode), and mathematical formulas,
in a standardized nonencoded way. That's the beauty of it. That,
and nothing more.

Of course it doesn't solve typographical problems of all languages
of the world, and that was never its intended purpose. Does it e.g.
include the ligatures of Arabic? Each character in arabic can appear
in four different forms. It certainly doesn't solve the problems of
attaching vowels to Hebrew, which appear as dots above and below the
characters. It certainly doesn't solve the problems of mathematical
typesetting layout.

What it does, is that it raises the level of abstraction. Instead
of having to write \infinity I'll just see the infinity sign on the
screen. (I have a solution to the input problem if anybody is
interested.)

I don't think it should be used for font encoding, because if it
did, it should be complete and include the whole Unicode character
set. Who wants to design each font and include 16k characters? To make
matching versions of roman, greek, hebrew, japanese, etc, etc characters
of each font?

Just my \cent 2...

--
                                                        ___   ___
                                                      /  o  \   o \
Dov Grobgeld                                         ( o  o  ) o   |
The Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel             \  o  /o  o /
"Where the tree of wisdom carries oranges"              | |   | |
                                                       _| |_ _| |_

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: ah238@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Zupko)
Subject: Stone Font
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:36:35 GMT


Anyone have a stone font for windows?
-- 
	It may not be today, or tomorrow but the truth will comeout.

 
 AH238@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU                            --------->>>>>>>>>>JAZ
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: v065hjku@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Jason Osborne)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Converting Mac TrueType to Windows
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:18:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.BtAD3F.1Gp
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>	Can someone please give me instructions on how to take a Mac
>TrueType font and convert it to Windows.  When you get the Mac


you need to get someone running on a mac to use ttconverter, a shareware 
utility available from sumex-aim.  That'll do the trick.

______________________________________________________________________________
Jason Osborne | Disclaimer: Who'd listen to me anyway?
______________________________________________________________________________
For information on the Underground Phont Archive, drop me a note via email
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: delahunt@adobe.com (Jim DeLaHunt)
Subject: Re: font encoding morass
Followup-To: comp.fonts
Summary: Unicode + Line Layout isn't supposed to give source-level portability
Keywords: encoding unicode line layout portability
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:48:26 GMT

>>In article <71384@apple.Apple.COM> opstad@Apple.COM (David Opstad) writes:
>>
>>As I've said before, Unicode and ligatures are completely orthogonal issues.
>>I have on my machine right now a Unicode font containing almost 1,000 
>>glyphs, including scores of ligatures. The ligatures, like the rest of the
>>typographic richness of this font, are accessed via a well-defined method
>>that has *nothing* to do with the character encoding (i.e. Unicode).

I believe this is right on the money!

> In article <1992Aug20.013444.6313@adobe.com> mmwang@adobe.com (Michael 
> Wang) writes:
>
>In the case of document portability, I don't feel that Unicode and
>ligatures are unrelated issues. 

Well, we weren't talking about this kind of document portability before.
Unicode only pretends to provide portability of *plain text* across 
platforms.  Think of it as having the advantages and limitations of plain
ASCII text.  Formatting and ligature substitution systems like Line Layout
Manager are (as far as I understand) platform-specific, but can support
multiple encoding schemes. The PostScript language can describe formatted
documents in *final form* across platforms.

I think what you want, Michael, is a way to have *revisable* source form
documents, which are editable, portable across platforms, richly formatted
with ligatures and layout, yet have the same appearance across platforms.
I'd love to have that too, but I don't know of any way to achieve this yet. 

By the way, I'd like to give Berthold a cheer for starting this thread.
I symphathise with his frustration too.

> [Michael Wang continues:]
> How do you setup Unicode so that it can uniquely encode each of these
> different versions? Do you turn Unicode into a 24-bit encoding where
> each of the regular 16-bit characters can have 256 variations?

Perish the thought!  Unicode should stay the way it is.  If you want
consistent glyphs across platforms then use functionally identical
formatting systems, and a richly formatted source format, on all platforms.

My two cents worth,
	--Jim DeLaHunt, Developer Support, Adobe Systems Incorporated	
delahunt@adobe.com	...!{apple,decwrl}!adobe!delahunt      +1-415-962-3790
My own daydreams, not Adobe's daydreams.


Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: rick@jpusa1.chi.il.us (Rick Mills)
Subject: Re: Type manipulation software.
Organization: JPUSA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:34:43 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

dmandl@kabbalah.shearson.com (David Mandl) writes:
: In article <6497@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> duanem@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Duane W Moore) writes:
: 
:    In article <1992Aug10.112407.9967@waikato.ac.nz> bwc@waikato.ac.nz (Ug!) writes:
: 
:    >Quick question:  I'm after a program which will run under Windows 3.1 with
:    >ATM, and which will produce type distortions (such as rendering in per-
:    >spective).  The resulting image should be exportable to Aldus Freehand.
:    >Does anyone know of any possibilities?  Freeware/Shareware/Commercial will
:    >all be considered.
: 
:    Corel Draw or Adobe Type Align will do this.  
: 
: My $.02: Even though Adobe Type Align is very inexpensive, I found it
: COMPLETELY unusable.  It's one of the slowest pieces of software I've
: seen, and I'm using a reasonably fast machine (Zeos 386/20).  You'll
: get frustrated really quickly if you use it.  Corel Draw is great, but
: a lot more expensive.
: 
:    --Dave.
: 
: --
: ---------------------------------------------------------------
:          Dave Mandl            |    Opinions expressed here
:        New York City           | are not those of my employer,
: (dmandl@kabbalah.shearson.com) |          believe me.
: ---------------------------------------------------------------
	
	If you have a fast machine - get Bitstream Makeup - definetley
cheap (59.00?) and has a lot of effects. I've had Type Align and diskliked
it too.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: mxl6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael Lederman)
Subject: Font Porter
Reply-To: mxl6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael Lederman)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:25:20 GMT



Anybody know what "Font Porter" for the mac is?  I was told it is a great
utility.  What does it do?
Thanks.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Drake)
Subject: WANTED: mac IPA bitmap
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:21:08 GMT


        Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a font that
contains the International Phonetic Alphabet symbols?  I am
working on a Macintosh/HyperCard application that will drill
students in phonetic transcription.  Bit-mapped fonts would be
sufficient, since they will only be used on-screen.  I do not
have access to FTP, alas...    any help would be GREATLY
appreciated.  Please respond direct to me:

Luigi-Bob Drake
MultiMedia Development
Cleveland State Univerity
au462@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: ulma@coli.uni-sb.de (Ulrich Mayring)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Design advice: Optima & Bookman?
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:56:28 GMT
Organization: U of Saarbruecken, Dept. of Computational Linguistics

bwc@waikato.ac.nz (Ug!) writes:

>Jacob Galley asks:
>> If anyone has any experience matching a serif font to Optima, I'd like
>> to hear from you.

I don't think you can convincingly prove that one or the other font goes well
with Optima, and others don't. Something you like may turn others off. It's 
as easy as that. Of course there are cases where most typographers would say
that this is wrong, but chances are: If you don't like Times by itself, you
will probably not like in a combination either. I don't think there is a book
that solves your problem, why don't you try the following:
Do it as you YOURSELF like it and then, but only then show it to others. If 
most people like it (not only typographers, but regular people) then it is 
good.


     Ulrich Mayring
     volksdesign.

       - Man muss schon sehr genau hinhoeren - 
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: dmandl@bilbo.shearson.com (David Mandl)
Subject: Re: Changing Font Names in Windows
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:18:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.011500.25424@nic.umass.edu> s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger) writes:

   I have recently begun using CorelDraw 3.0 and would like to change
   the odd names it gives to fonts to the more correct names. I tried 
   changing the names in the win.ini file but the changes were only used when 
   I entered the fonts section of the Control Panel. What do I have to do to
   make other programs use the new names. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
   Chris Belanger

I'm assuming you mean the names that are used within Corel (not outside, i.e. in
ATM or other packages like Pagemaker or whatever--Corel's fonts aren't directly
usable outside of Corel anyway).  This is very easy.  There is a file in your Corel
directory that contains pairs of filenames and font names, and you just change the
font name for whatever file: Ottawa becomes Optima, etc.  I'm not at my PC, and I
can't remember the filename, but it should be fairly obvious: coreldrw.ini or
something.  If you can't find it, email me and I can give you more details.  Regards.

   --Dave.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Postscript Fonts & EPS Clipart
From: htweedie@madhat.actrix.gen.nz (Hamish Tweedie)
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:51:58 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: The mad HATter's madhouse
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

	Does anybody know sites where I can FTP any of the above from?? Any
Type 1 or 3 fonts in either MS-DOS or Mac format would be much appreciated.
Likewise any libraries of EPS, PCX or similar clipart would be great.

	Many thanks!!

-- 

|           ///    htweedie@madhat.actrix.gen.nz  Bombora/Ross 780 sailor|
| Taste    ///       OR tweedie_h@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz        | RZ350, R65,|
|= Amiga  ///        OR tweedie@ivory.isor.vuw.ac.nz        | K75S rider.|
|    \\\ /// "Computer programmers were put on Earth to make accountants |
|     \XX//  look interesting!"   "Stretch yourself.........get morphed!"|
From: yefchak@hplred.HP.COM (George Yefchak)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:44:35 GMT
Subject: Star Trek font?
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: comp.fonts

I thought I saw a reference somewhere to a Star Trek: The Next Generation font.
Anybody know if this exists, and if so, where?
From: ulma@coli.uni-sb.de (Ulrich Mayring)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Font size choices (was Re: SWFTE Typecase)
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:16:12 GMT
Organization: U of Saarbruecken, Dept. of Computational Linguistics

koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) writes:

>To clarify, a book must be produced on a manual press with the assistance
>of an ordained typographer, which is to say, it must meet certain rigorous
>standards of purity of process.

Guess what? Most books are _not_ produced with the assistance of an ordained
typographer and certainly don't meet rigorous standards of purity of process,
whatever you mean by that. Most books are shelled out by the thousands in
order to be available in bulk quantities. Or would you like to pay 10 Dollars
more for a cooking book, just because an ordained typographer has supervised
its making?


>This notwithstanding, I once encountered a very book-like object which had
>an error in the righthand headers that looked embarassingly like a word-
>processor-based editing error.

Which of course means that without that fumble in the righthand header the
object would have been indistinguishable from a book.


     Ulrich Mayring
     volksdesign.

       - Spielen richtig verstanden ist etwas Wunderschoenes -
From: opstad@Apple.COM (David Opstad)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: font encoding morass
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:59:03 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <26760@life.ai.mit.edu> bkph@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Berthold K.P. Horn) writes:
>
>Finally:  Let's hope that UNICODE with its 16-bit characters will help
>resolve some of these problems.  Although, UNICODE is dead in the
>water if it does not provide access to ligatures.  For there can be
>no fine typesetting without ligatures.

As I've said before, Unicode and ligatures are completely orthogonal issues.
I have on my machine right now a Unicode font containing almost 1,000 glyphs,
including scores of ligatures. The ligatures, like the rest of the
typographic richness of this font, are accessed via a well-defined method
that has *nothing* to do with the character encoding (i.e. Unicode).

Unicode encodes meaning. Ligatures are inappropriate in this context.

Fonts encode appearance. Ligatures, swashes and everything else are very
appropriate in this context.

Dave Opstad
Line Layout Weenie

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: dmandl@bilbo.shearson.com (David Mandl)
Subject: Re: Changing Font Names in Windows
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<DMANDL.92Aug19111832@bilbo.shearson.com> <6642@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:04:10 GMT

In article <6642@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> duanem@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Duane W Moore) writes:

   In article <DMANDL.92Aug19111832@bilbo.shearson.com> you write:

       In article <1992Aug18.011500.25424@nic.umass.edu>
       s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger) writes:

       I have recently begun using CorelDraw 3.0 and would like to change
       the odd names it gives to fonts to the more correct names. I tried
       changing the names in the win.ini file but the changes were only used when
       I entered the fonts section of the Control Panel. What do I have to do to
       make other programs use the new names. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
       Chris Belanger

   I'm assuming you mean the names that are used within Corel (not outside,
   i.e. in ATM or other packages like Pagemaker or whatever--Corel's fonts
   aren't directly usable outside of Corel anyway).  This is very easy.  There
   is a file in your Corel directory that contains pairs of filenames and font
   names, and you just change the font name for whatever file: Ottawa becomes
   Optima, etc.  I'm not at my PC, and I can't remember the filename, but it
   should be fairly obvious: coreldrw.ini or something.  If you can't find it,
   email me and I can give you more details.  Regards.

   --Dave.
   ----------

   Chris clearly stated that he is referring to Corel DRAW 3.0, which uses
   TrueType fonts.  Previous versions of Corel DRAW have included information
   regarding changing of font names.  In those versions, the change was known
   ONLY to Corel DRAW.  But since version 3.0 provides all those fonts which
   can be shared with virtually all other Windows applications, it is very
   desirable to change the names of the True Type fonts to the names that we
   all know them by.  I'd like the answer also.

   -- Duane

All right, all right, my mistake.  I read the post a little too quickly, OK?
(And I still haven't gotten my hands on 3.0, so I wasn't aware of the improve-
ment.)  As I told Chris via email, I haven't worked with TT fonts, but I have
worked extensively with PS fonts: with the latter, the name is read by ATM
from inside the PFB file (it's right at the top).  Change this and you've changed
the name of the font.  I assume it's more or less the same with TT fonts, but I
may be wrong.  Take a peek inside your font file.

   --Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------
         Dave Mandl            |    Opinions expressed here
       New York City           | are not those of my employer,
 (dmandl@bilbo.shearson.com)   |          believe me.
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: hcheng@Auspex.COM (Howard Cheng)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Design advice: Optima & Bookman?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:29:55 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

In my opinion, I think that Stone Serif or Garamond look pretty good with
Optima. I've never really liked Bookman anyway.

There are a few books available regarding type, but I'm afraid I can't remember
any of the titles. Go to your school bookstore and they should have a lot of
stuff in the computer books area (e.g., "Type From the Desktop" is one (some-
thing like that)).

h.

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: slibman@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Sanford Libman)
Subject: Re: Type manipulation software.
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:38:22 GMT

>
>   In article <1992Aug10.112407.9967@waikato.ac.nz> bwc@waikato.ac.nz (Ug!) writes:
>
>   >Quick question:  I'm after a program which will run under Windows 3.1 with
>   >ATM, and which will produce type distortions (such as rendering in per-
>   >spective).  The resulting image should be exportable to Aldus Freehand.
>   >Does anyone know of any possibilities?  Freeware/Shareware/Commercial will
>   >all be considered.

Bitstream's MAKEUP is designed to do exactly that.

-Sandy
>
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: brians@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Brian J Smith)
Subject: Need OMNI magazine font
Summary: Need OMNI postscript typeface for Mac
Keywords: OMNI
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:14:14 GMT


I'm doing a magazine section for OMNI here in Australia and have to use their
house typeface but it is only available (to us) as a page of original to cut
and paste. How boring. I do not have time to do a Fontographer translaton to
make up a typeface, so wonder if anyone has heard of such a font out there.

You know the one, like the cover of OMNI magazine . All caps only.

Brian Smith
Sydney, Australia

brians@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: ias2033@frontier.draper.com (Ike Stoddard)
Subject: Q:Mac pd-font.cpt.hqx to Unix anything.bdf.gf
Followup-To: poster
Summary: how to? mac pd font to UnixTeX on Sun
Keywords: Mac Unix TeX 
Organization: Manned Space Systems, Draper Laboratory
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:00:52 GMT

I have downloaded some PD fonts from mac.archive, but I'm
not intending to use them on a Mac.  I'd like to unpack them
for use in UnixTeX, ideally, or to try out as screen fonts
under OpenWindows 3.0.  I also grabbed and compiled macunpack,
hexbin, and t1utils.  I'm just a little confused about how to 
proceed further, after checking the download, for example,

%>macunpack -i goudymedieval.cpt
folder="GoudyMedieval"
 name="GoudyMed", type=LWFN, author=ACp1, data=0, rsrc=21046
 name="GoudyMedieval_Fonts_TT", type=FFIL, author=DMOV, data=0, rsrc=28381
 name="GoudyMedieval.AFM", type=TEXT, author=aCa2, data=4379, rsrc=0
 name="GoudyMedieval.bmap", type=FFIL, author=DMOV, data=0, rsrc=8532
leaving folder "GoudyMedieval"
%>

What are all these pieces?  What are they worth to me?  Please help!
Will I need the .bmap *and* .AFM files?  Will just the .AFM do?
What should I use for macunpack arguments to make the result
readable on Unix (SunOS 4.1.1b)?  Should I just pipe it to afm2tfm?

I've already gone a few weeks back into comp.fonts newsgroup, and
couldn't find anything relevant.  I've also excavated comp.lang.postscript,
comp.text.tex, comp.sys.sun.admin, and the font info on mac.archive.

I can ftp/telnet/mail/news to receive the answers, and I'll post
a summary for inclusion to the FAQ (which I also read already).
TIA,
-- 
Ike Stoddard		found daily at, but not officially representing
STODDARD@DRAPER.COM	Manned Space Systems, Draper Laboratory, Inc.
(617) 258-3882 24 hrs.	Mail Stop 4C, 555 Tech Sq., Cambridge MA 02139
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: howell@blegga.u.washington.edu (David Howell)
Subject: Re: Unicode and ligatures (was Re: font encoding morass)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:38:34 GMT

bkph@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Berthold K.P. Horn) writes:
>In article <9819@fs3.cam.nist.gov> koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) writes:
>   It would be nice to see a discussion of how existing applications of
>   various sorts and existing fonts (including fonts with the Dingbat
>   symbol set, as Howell has suggested) might be adapted to work with
>   UNICODE.
>UNICODE contains all of the Zapf Dingbats (as well as countless other random
>symbols, operators, relations, delimiters, roadkills, what have you)

Why on earth would it include the Zapf Dingbats?
A "Dingbat symbol set" is oxymoronic. Why map Minion-Ornaments
leaf at 113 to the Zapf splat at 104 or 105? Or should it
be mapped to the voting box at 113?

Mapping dingbats in Unicode is effectively saying
"Put random thingies here." Unless, of course, you want
to be able to count on having those checkmarks and hands, in
which case we still don't have a place for my Utopia leaf
at position 49.
From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: font encoding morass
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:31:31 GMT
Organization: UIUC SCS

In article <1992Aug20.050548.7456@trilithon.mpk.ca.us> henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:

>In article <26760@life.ai.mit.edu> bkph@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Berthold K.P.  
>Horn) writes:
>    *  
>    *  THE FONT ENCODING MESS:
>    *  =======================

>Much applause is due to Berthold for enumerating the encoding
>issues clearly.

>One glimmer of hope is PostScript Level Two ``glyphshow'',
>which renders glyphs by name, bypassing encoding issues.

>But seriously, we could use a forum to discuss and attempt to
>resolve some of these encoding problems -- they are a large pain
>in the neck.

>       ........  Henry


Actually there is a simple solution:

Each glyph in very font must have a numerical location in the
font.

Just allow accessing any glyph by font name and its numerical position.

This mechanism should be outside of any other method available -- it
is completely general and useable anywhere. It gets completely around the 
problem of "meaning" or "character codes". 

Doug McDonald
From: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: hp fonts
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:17:59 EST
Reply-To: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

PD>I tried to strip the header of the file and only keep the data part,
PD>assuming it was like raster data. But when I tried to just send that f
PD>to the printer, I got some garbage. Is the font data different from
PD>raster data? Can I achieve what I am after with this font file?

the font data is stored as compressed raster data with a peculiar encoding 
scheme. i have manual that describes it, but i haven't got it handy.

Herb...

Herb.Chong@Channel1.com

---
  WinQwk 2.0 a#314  Black holes are where God divided by zero.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: comp.fonts