From: cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:45:11 GMT
Organization: Cow Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA

dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) said...
>pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>>[Brad also writes]
>>>but I'm not queer.
>>>Not if queer means I'd give up marriage, 
>>Once again, note the lack of any mention that already married couples
>>should break up.
>
>But no mention that perhaps if that is what is important to the individual
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your net.tour.guide would like to call your attention to this phrase.  It
will be referred to later.  (maybe there should be a quiz, with appropriate
rewards and punishments....)

>that it should be accepted without condition or reservation.  Why should
>a bisexual deny a strong urge to marry and have children or whatever, if that
>is what is honestly in their soul?  This 'privilege' is a fluke of our
>sexuality, and doesn't even apply uniformly.  It is only available to bi's
>who have a MOTOS partner.
>
>The difference stands, and needs to be dealt with.  Avoiding marriage because
>of the inequity is still a valid political act if that is really what is in
>that person's soul; avoiding marriage because the lesgay community will be
>more accepting of bisexuals is the type of accomodation and hiding that I
>am against.  I defer (egomaniacally) to the last two paragraphs of my
>original article. (....)

Brad has brought up some interesting points about the bi and gay 
communities.  There is an assumption about marriage, though, that
i have seen before on this group.  I have heard several people say
things to the effect of: "don't tell me i can't get married - i
want to have a committed relationship".  Although Brad is one person
that i have heard it from, he is not the only one, and i am not
trying to pick on him specifically.

Let me say this as clearly as i can:
Marriage does not necessarily imply committed, loving relationship.
Committed, loving relationship does not necessarily imply marriage.

If a married couple found out that the paperwork had been screwed 
up, and they were not really married, would they suddenly love 
each other any less?  

Marriage is one of many ways to affirm a committment.  It is the
only state-sanctioned way.  It is one way that people in MOTSS 
relationships cannot participate in.

It is a bigger issue than just "gay people taking bi people
seriously".  I know het people who won't get married, and the fact
that marriage is not equally available to all couples has played
a part in their choice.

I've been trying to think of a good analogy; this is the best i
can do (with assistance from a net.cutie):
Let's say you come from a family that has lived in your area for
centuries.  There is a country club that your family has belonged
to for generations, and has always been an important part of your
family's interactions and traditions.  (let's also assume family
interactions and traditions are important to you :^) )  But you 
notice that this club does not admit non=white people.  You care
about equal access for all races, but your family heritage is
_important_ to you.  (Please note the reference back to the earlier
phrase: "what is important to the individual")
In response to this, many people would not attend the club for as long
as the policy held, and would work to change the policy.

In some respects, this is a close analogy.  It is about giving up a
privledge because it is not available to all people.  (yeah, i know
country clubs are not available to all people.  gimme a break, it's
just an analogy.  Money is not the issue here.)  And i beleive
the analogy can be taken a bit further:  in this country-club analogy,
your family interactions will not suffer if you all stop going.  You
will find different ways to enjoy each$others' company.  Similarly,
a MOTOS relationship should not suffer if they pass on the state-
sanctioned marriage.  There are so many other ways to affirm your 
love and committment.

-Coe
-- 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Theta waves are brain waves
Coe L. Salzgeber - San Luis Obispo, CA !  (4-7hz) that are dominant in children
Internet: cjohnson@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU !  ages 2 - 5 and in psychopaths.