HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heath@iceblink.cs.jhu.edu (Dave Heath)
Subject: Re: nn6.4.18: dumps core creating .newsrc?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:22:02 GMT

vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox) writes:

>nn6.4.18 compiled under SunOS 4.1.1 for a Sun 3/260. Ask all the right
>questions, but dumps core and exits when trying to create a .newsrc.
>Any clues?

There is a bug. Here is a simple patch. 

I don't know where to send this for inclusion in an official patch.
Anyone know?


*** global.c.old	Fri Apr 19 13:40:43 1991
--- global.c	Mon Nov  4 18:40:02 1991
***************
*** 482,487 ****
--- 482,488 ----
  {
      struct stat st;
  
+     if (!f) return 0;	/* dave heath: fixed bug if no .newsrc */
      if (fstat(fileno(f), &st) < 0) return 0;
      return st.st_mtime;
  }

END OF PATCH

-dave heath
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: guckes@math.fu-berlin.de (Sven Guckes)
Subject: How do you kill all follow-ups within a group ?
Followup-To: poster
Originator: guckes@medusa
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:12:43 GMT

You've probably seen this situation before:
Only the original posts are worth to be read - most of the followups are
real junk. (cf. rec.humor )

So - how do you kill all followups ?

Sven :)
!!! Followup-To: poster
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman)
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:42:37 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Keywords: poor design

In <BxAuIy.4qJ@ie.utoronto.ca> green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green) writes:

>'ve recent switched to a machine that uses nn and am stunned at what poorly
>designed piece of software it is. It violates just about every human factors
>principle in software design (consistency, dialog closure, smooth  error
>handling, etc). And of course, the documentation is a joke.

He's just bitching because it doesn't have a GUI.   :-)

>The only good thing about it is that it serves as a source of wonderful
>examples for my software engineering course on how not to design systems.

>Why is this damned thing so common?

Whether a program has all the qualities that a Computer Scientist (TM)
'thinks' a well-written program should have DOESN'T MEAN ONE DAMN THING
when it comes to whether the program will be accepted by the end-user
or not.  For example, MS-DOS, is the most popular operating system in the
known Universe.

Nn has the following going for it:

o  The first to use a subject database to increase the speed of the program.

o  The first to offer "select-subject-first" style newsreading (well, I 
   think GNUS does it too, but nn is very fast at it.)

o  The first to offer 'interface candy' like file completion, and full
   screen curses control for that professional look.

o  Nn still has most other newsreaders beat just in the number of 
   customizations (macros, behavior settings, etc) you can adjust or put in.  

o  It is relatively bug free, and it's very fast.  


Besides, for Unix, it is way above average for a FREE program.


I would like to see your list of newsreaders that you think are better...

I would like to see if you can demonstrate what you have learned in your
course by telling us how you would improve nn.  Then do it! 
 
The world has enough complainers...  Especially for free software. 
-- 
     ____/     /     /     __  /    _  _/    ____/
    /         /     /     /   /      /     /          Chris Sherman
   /         ___   /        _/      /          /
 _____/   __/   __/   __/ _\    _____/   _____/           sherman@unx.sas.com
From: jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Switch to -a (all) within newsgroup ???
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:08:22 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


How does one display all the subjects (read and unread) without 
leaving a newsgroup ? It happened to me by accident once.

Thanks,

E-mail only: jgraham@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu
From: jjz34245@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wendell Gee)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Can I change servers with nn?
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Hi,

I would like to use nn to connect to a remote news server.  Is there a way
I can set that up being a regular user? Or are the operators here the only
ones that can change that?

Any info welcome,

-Zim
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: fred@ivhs.mot.com (Fred Brunner)
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Organization: Motorola IVHS Group - Northbrook IL
Date:  6 Nov 92 19:21:08 GMT
Keywords: poor design

green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green) whines without citing any examples:

>'ve recent switched to a machine that uses nn and am stunned at what poorly
>designed piece of software it is. It violates just about every human factors
>principle in software design (consistency, dialog closure, smooth  error
>handling, etc). And of course, the documentation is a joke.
>...

Having a bad day?

>Why is this damned thing so common?

Because it happens to be an excellent newsreader. It is unsurpassed
for configurability, has good performance (timewise, anyway), and
has *excellent* documentation, IMHO.

Now if only it would thread...

-FB
-- 
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   
Fred Brunner - Sr. Systems Engineer (all opinions expressed solely my own)
Intelligent Vehicle/Highway Systems Group - Motorola, Inc.
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---
From: acbhour@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Rudi van Houten)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Re: Can I change servers with nn?
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:05:40 GMT
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht

In <BxMC3p.J86@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jjz34245@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wendell Gee) writes:

>Hi,

>I would like to use nn to connect to a remote news server.  Is there a way
>I can set that up being a regular user? Or are the operators here the only
>ones that can change that?

>Any info welcome,

You'll need the the system guys on both the machine you use and the remote
news server.

-- 
Rudi van Houten	<rudi@cc.ruu.nl>
Academisch Computer Centrum Utrecht / Besturings Systemen
Budapestlaan 8  -  3584 CD  -  Utrecht  -  Netherlands
:-) Experience is the harvest of many mistakes.
From: harley@engrhub.ucsb.edu (Hahn)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: CREATING A NEW .newsrc FILE
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:14:26 GMT

Could some kind soul please help me out with a definitive answer
to the following question.  I need the answer right away so can
you please answer by email. Thanks.

If you were instructing a beginner, what would you tell him or her
to do to take a shortcut to build a full .newsrc file before
starting to use nn for the first time.

Remember, this is a virgin user so there are no .newsrc files and 
no .nn directory.

In the FAQ, it says to start nn and quit right away.  However, my
experience is that this only gives you the newsgroup names
for the hierarchy that happened to be first.  For example,
when I tried this, the .newsrc only contained the alt groups.

The FAQ also says to try nn -a0, but without an .nn directory
this seems to choke.  When I make a .nn directory first, it has
the same affect as above.  The .newsrc only contains the alt
groups.

In Ed Krols book, he says to:

(1) make a .nn directory
(2) create an init file
inside this file insert:
sequence
alt
comp
talk
misc
rec
and so on for each heirarchy you want.
(3) start nn and then quit.

Yes, this works but it is really ugly for a beginner.
Surely there must be a better way.
What do beginners do to set up the first time?
What about people who want to create and then
edit a .newsrc file?

Thanks,
Harley Hahn
From: hunt@shy.umd.edu (Brian Hunt)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Keywords: poor design
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:47:57 GMT

green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green) writes:
>'ve recent switched to a machine that uses nn and am stunned at what poorly
>designed piece of software it is. It violates just about every human factors
>principle in software design (consistency, dialog closure, smooth  error
>handling, etc). And of course, the documentation is a joke.

>The only good thing about it is that it serves as a source of wonderful
>examples for my software engineering course on how not to design systems.

>Why is this damned thing so common?

Gee, if the point of software engineering courses is to teach people
how not to write software like NN, then no wonder most commercial
software is so lousy...

Brian Hunt
hunt@ipst.umd.edu
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: lingy@jonah.its.rpi.edu (Dan)
Subject: Re: nn problems within xterm
Reply-To: lingy@rpi.edu
Organization: Somewhere Special
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:03:23 GMT

stefans@bauv106.bauv.unibw-muenchen.de (Stefan Schwarz) writes:

>i have some trouble when running nn within xterm.
>My xterm is a large (75 line) xterm and auto-preview is set on. So i have
>enough room to see the whole page of subjects (a-z,0-9) and the
>selected article. However, there are some strange effects:
>(1) After printing an article, the screen gets erased an never refreshed.
>    So i have to switch to another page and switch back to again see my subjects.

I have encountered the above problem too and maybe someone has a fix for it?
Thanks.

Dan
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: datpete@daimi.aau.dk (Peter Andersen)
Subject: patch 17+18?
Reply-To: datpete@daimi.aau.dk (Peter Andersen)
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 15:46:41 GMT

I wonder I anyone could tell me where to get patch 17 and 18?

I *have* read the FAQ, and I see one site having patch 18,
but no one offering patch 17?

Also, are patch 17 and 18 *official*? I haven't been reading this
group for a long time (actually since Kim was the only official
"patcher").

Peter Andersen
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Date: 7 Nov 1992 14:57:11 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
Keywords: poor design

{complaint deleted}
# Why is this damned thing so common?
# Marc Green
# Trent University

Because we have not be able to get the far_better newsreader YOU
wrote and posted to compile.......

{I used nn because I found it to be an order of magnitude better than
rn.  Kim even added a half dozen features at my request. Last time I
checked, he hadn't gotten rich off of his YEARS of effort.}


--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: kurt@dna.lth.se (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Problem with new-group-action
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:14:03 GMT

Has anyone ever encountered the following problem?

I have set new-group-action to 4 - confirm addition to .newsrc...
When new groups arrive & I say "no" to addition, I am presented these
groups during that session if any article has arrived yet...  The
names are not saved in .newsrc though...
-- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green)
Subject: Why is NN so common?
Summary: NN is is a very poor piece of software. Why is it so popular?
Keywords: poor design
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:49:46 GMT

've recent switched to a machine that uses nn and am stunned at what poorly
designed piece of software it is. It violates just about every human factors
principle in software design (consistency, dialog closure, smooth  error
handling, etc). And of course, the documentation is a joke.

The only good thing about it is that it serves as a source of wonderful
examples for my software engineering course on how not to design systems.

Why is this damned thing so common?

Marc Green
Trent University
From: harley@engrhub.ucsb.edu (Hahn)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: re: CREATING A NEW .newsrc FILE
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:17:50 GMT

WRT my previous post asking how to show a beginner how to
create a .newsrc file.
Woudl it work to use the newsetup command (if rn happens
to be on the system)?

What doesn't nn have something like a newsetup command?
Why do you have to jump through hoops to
get a full .newsrc file?

-- Harley Hahn



Newsgroups: news.software.nn
From: eggert@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Keywords: poor design
Organization: Twin Sun, Inc
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:50:03 GMT

green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green) writes:

>The only good thing about [nn] is that it serves as a source of wonderful
>examples for my software engineering course on how not to design systems.

My advice is to build a better replacement for nn.
Students already have seen many examples of bad software --
you don't need nn for this, and indeed I'm sure you can find even
juicier examples from other poorly designed systems
like GNU Emacs, Microsoft Windows, and SVR4 Unix.
What students need most is exposure to good software,
and you are ideally suited to provide it to them.
From: ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Where is NN available?
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:41:56 GMT

Where can I ftp nn from?

--MBH
From: rshwake@irscscm.UUCP (Ray Shwake)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Re: Why is NN so common?
Date: 7 Nov 92 17:32:07 GMT
Reply-To: rshwake@irscscm.UUCP (Ray Shwake)
Distribution: na
Organization: R|S|X Technical Services, Washington, DC

In article <BxAuIy.4qJ@ie.utoronto.ca> green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green) writes:
>'ve recent switched to a machine that uses nn and am stunned at what poorly
>designed piece of software it is. It violates just about every human factors
>principle in software design (consistency, dialog closure, smooth  error
>handling, etc). And of course, the documentation is a joke.

	Compared to what? Having used readnews, rn, and tin, I find NN to
	be *vastly* superior. The ability to tag individual and thread-
	related articles makes it possible to scan the hundreds or thousands
	of articles received daily more efficiently. The built-in help is
	better. It ports well to common platforms. It's quite robust as
	public domain software goes.

	Yes, its 80+ page "man" page for nn(1) probably sets a record for
	volume. Yes, some of its command syntax violates getarg standards.
	Yes, a proper user guide is long overdue. It's still the most
	valuable piece of software I've ever pulled off the net, and I'll
	continue to use it until something substantially better comes along.

>The only good thing about it is that it serves as a source of wonderful
>examples for my software engineering course on how not to design systems.

	You and your students are certainly welcome to develop and promote
	a superior alternative.
From: mullins@convex.com (Don Mullins)
Newsgroups: news.software.nn
Subject: Re: Switch to -a (all) within newsgroup ???
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:55:51 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In news.software.nn jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End) writes:

>How does one display all the subjects (read and unread) without 
>leaving a newsgroup ? It happened to me by accident once.

  This is the way: "G<RET>a"

  G     - goto newsgroup
  <RET> - current group
  a     - all

>Thanks,

>E-mail only: jgraham@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu

Don
--
---                     Don Mullins, mullins@convex.com
----                      Convex Computer Corporation
---                         Richardson, Texas (USA)
--
Newsgroups: news.misc,news.newusers.questions
From: mayers@landshark.syr.EDU (Michael  Ayers)
Subject: Re: mailing Xerox
In-reply-to: mick@atlas.abccomp.oz.au's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:53:56 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University
	<BxL6xx.8CI@atlas.abccomp.oz.au>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 14:22:21 EST

In article <BxL6xx.8CI@atlas.abccomp.oz.au> mick@atlas.abccomp.oz.au (Michael O'Halloran) writes:

> his address being USER:sydney:rxaus

	That's not an internet address - what you want is a XEROX
 gateway.  You would send your mail to that gateway in the form:

	"USER:sydney:rxaus"@gateway.domain

	So that the XEROX address would remain uninterpreted until it
 reached the destination machine, which would know how to interpret it.
 UUCP addresses are often done in the same form to reach remote machines.

	Where's the gateway?  I would suggest looking for a machine (or
 domain) xerox.com and then sending a polite letter to postmaster@machine
 for help.

	Unless, of course, someone else replies with a more informative
 response . . .

--

             Mike                       mayers@rodan.acs.syr.edu

    C: Confusing code means job security.
  
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Subject: Re: moving the ftp'd file to my drive...
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:18:09 GMT

In article <Opal_Sullen.00mz@republik.fidonet.org>, Opal_Sullen@republik.fidonet.org (Opal Sullen) writes:
> In a message dated Mon  2 Nov 92  4:07, Fsars@acad3.alaska.edu wrote:
> 
>  FRS> You're not telling us what your home machine is.  But I assume it's
>  FRS> either a MacIntosh or an IBM-PC/clone.
> 
> why would you assume that?  it's an amiga, but i do have both a mac and a
> peecee too.  ideally i would have one of each.
                        [Rest Deleted]

I assumed the two likeliest possibilities (MAC and PC).  You didn't
give us enough information.  I'm glad you found your answer, but it
(your answer) was meaningless to me, except that you're referring to
z-modem downloads.  I'm not only unfamiliar with your software/
hardware, but didn't even know what you were using.  Keep in mind that
Z-Modem refers to a protocol (and perhaps a transfer algorithm) and
not software.  There is plenty of software (a lot of it shareware or
freeware) that uses Z-Modem protocol.

BTW, I agree with your stuff about shopping around for a computer, the
amount of software written for your platform should also be
considered.  MacIntosh and IBM compatable PC's both have a
considerable amount of software written for them.  But what did that
have to do with your original question? === Al
Xref: sparky news.misc:1869 comp.misc:4293 news.admin.misc:313 alt.folklore.computers:16120 misc.misc:3777
From: xyzzy@mertwig.UUCP (Daniel Drucker)
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.misc,news.admin.misc,alt.folklore.computers,misc.misc
Subject: Re: How is the Net financed and what does it cost?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:05:38 EST
Organization: Odd Parity Hacker's Group

limes@ouroborous.eng.sun.com (Greg Limes) writes:

> In article <gmmsTB9w165w@mertwig.UUCP> xyzzy@mertwig.UUCP (Daniel Drucker) wr
> |   Like telephone?
> |   I don't want to have to pay more to telnet farther. Thats plain stupid.
> |   The whole point of the net is a cyberspace where distance is meaningless.
> 
> Fine. Figure out what it would have cost if all of your connections were
> to timbucktu and send the difference to your favorite charity. ;-)

It really shoudn't cost all that much more! Yeah, maybe a milliwatt of 
energy. But I'm not USING a line, just a couple nanoseconds of time for 
my packet.


Daniel Max P. Drucker            | #define SLOGAN Hey! Lets port it to COBOL!
The 14 year old net.comm.genius. | Disclaimer: I don't know COBOL.
 /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\/~\/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ 
/  Difficulty! It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!    \
\__________________________________________________________________________/
/    Is there anyone out there in net.land in Port Washington, New York?   \
\______a m a t e u r____r a d i o____c a l l s i g n____p e n d i n g______/
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.misc,news.admin.misc,alt.folklore.computers,misc.misc
From: dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon)
Subject: Re: How is the Net financed and what does it cost?
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:04:23 GMT

In article <gmmsTB9w165w@mertwig.UUCP> xyzzy@mertwig.UUCP (Daniel Drucker) writes:
>> Someday we'll probably see network usage metered by packet similar to
>> the way electricity is packaged, but that's some time off.  A better
>> solution would be to charge similar to the way phone services are
>> charged (a flat or cheap rate for local service, more for long
>> distance) but the accounting would be pretty hard so it's unlikely
>> that such a technique will be used.
>
>Like telephone?
>I don't want to have to pay more to telnet farther. Thats plain stupid.

Stupid?  It reflects the costs, and someone will be paying, somewhere.

You bits take up space on more metres of wire if they go further.  And
those metres have a maintenance cost.

>The whole point of the net is a cyberspace where distance is meaningless.

I don't think Internet was *set up* as a `cyperspace', even though
that's a very nice way to use it.  So I don't think it can be the
``whole point''.  B^>

Damon
-- 
Damon Hart-Davis | Tel/Fax: +44 81 755 0077  |1.30|| Cheap Sun eqpt available.
Internet:dhd@exnet.co.uk, Damon@ed.ac.uk, d@hd.org|| Mail/news feeds available.
--------------------------+ Will exchange uucped local articles free over V22b.
Public access UNIX (Suns), news and mail for #5 per month.  FIRST MONTH FREE.
Xref: sparky news.misc:1847 comp.misc:4249 news.admin.misc:267 alt.folklore.computers:15909 misc.misc:3723
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.misc,news.admin.misc,alt.folklore.computers,misc.misc
Subject: Re: How is the Net financed and what does it cost?
Date: 7 Nov 1992 01:09:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> 2) What are the costs to send electronic mail messages and
>    data packets? And are there other costs?

I was hoping someone would point out that those "other costs" are by
far the largest.  Blair Houghton did:

    The human resources are a combination of the administration
    of the networks, machines, and news software, and the time
    taken by participants to read and respond to the articles.
    This last element is easily the largest cost you'll ever
    encounter for the net.

Mostly true, although "ever" is a long time ...

> > That assumes you buy the disk space for each new message (say,
> > by having /usr/spool/news on floppies? ;-)
>
> Imagine how long a Bnews expire would take with a full feed (one
> week expire) on 360k floppies? 

Is that (360k) the actual number of floppy disks that you'd need?
    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)
Xref: sparky news.misc:1859 comp.misc:4262 news.admin.misc:288 alt.folklore.computers:15970 misc.misc:3736