HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knguyen@emr1.emr.ca (Kim Nguyen)
Subject: Re: Diem and Strategic Hamlets
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:20:23 GMT

In article <BxFBq9.577@cs.uiuc.edu> drk@cs.uiuc.edu (David Kohr) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.212723.25899@emr1.emr.ca> knguyen@emr1.emr.ca (Kim
>Nguyen) writes:
>> But I tell you that I dream to see Communist Vietnam die.
>
>To anyone reading Kim's postings, this admission should serve as a warning
>signal regarding the accuracy and completeness of the historical facts
>presented and the biases reflected in the conclusions reached.
>-- 
-----------

-Gee ! Now you talk. My fate is different from yours. While you have eaten
beef, I have taken rice and barley when living under communist rule. I did
live as a free man and live as oppressed man. This experience has created
reviews of what I had in mind about communists. Under that short period
of 5 years, I got chance to listen to their boasting about how they 
did defeat US and SVN.

- I am not ashamed to say what I believe and why I have escaped. I did
want to stay back in 1975 because I love my dear country which, to me,
is the best in the world. I did believe that, giving communist a chance,
to convince me that they did what they had propagandized before through
student movement, I could stay and contribute to rebuild a war-torn
country. But that is illusion and that is why I am here.

-What are biased facts and distortion ? Bring them up so that we can debate.
If I am wrong I would accept my weak reasoning.

Newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
From: knguyen@emr1.emr.ca (Kim Nguyen)
Subject: Re: Effects of US war protestors (was Re: Stockdale....)
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:58:10 GMT

In article <BxGn9K.KMs@news.orst.edu> olsenm@ccmail.orst.edu (Monte Olsen) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.131003.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>
>Greg Franklin, f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>
>>In any case, if you're going to the memorial, I'd like it
>if you could
>>tell a little about the ceremony.  I've never been there,
>but would like
>>to go sometime.
>>-- 
>>Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how
>do you spell relief?"
>
>
>Greg,
>No argument with any of what you said, bro. But I'll be
>damned if I'll allow some of the comments about one-sided
>brutality go unanswered. It is an absolute injustice to
>those who were there to leave such comments alone. It
>honestly doesn't do my blood pressure any good to read
>these things and respond to them. And, I'm afraid, when I
>get angry any logic evades this half brain, so the
>statements may seem somewhat spurious. For that I
>apologize. 
>
>I was going to the "Moving Wall" in Portland, OR last
>weekend. But, to tell the truth, I didn't want to go by
>myself. My blood bro (older) also spent a year in Nam (as
>did my cousin) and I wanted to go with him. He, like me,
>was afraid how he would react. He went through more than I
>did, was there from 10-67 to 10-68 as a grunt, and I
>didn't want to push him. But, to tell the truth, after
>some of the things said here by Tuan, et. al., I felt a
>strong desire to get up there. Couldn't convince him to go
>with me and was too afraid to go by myself. However, I
>subscribe to another BBS where people also are going and
>promise to describe how things went. I'll post some of
>their comments here if you like.
>
>Take care of yourself,
>
>Monte

-----------

No ! No ! Monte.

Not all Vietnamese are like Tuan who may be born here or too young
too know what was going on. Two million Vietnamese in exile around
the globe and more than 900,000 in US are not testimony for their
belief ? Some who came to US in early 1975 would not have chance to
know what a communist society was really was. A kid of 5 or 10,
brought by their parents to US, couldn't know either; but almost
those young guys have evolved in political debate in their community
or have been depicted by their elders at home. That is the situation
you can get.

Don't you know that SOLDIER NEVER DIES ?
I am sad to know your brother has died.
D
D
D
I sad to know that your brother has died in action
Newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
From: drk@cs.uiuc.edu (David Kohr)
Subject: Re: Effects of US war protestors (was Re: Stockdale....)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Comp Sci, Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:01:13 GMT

In article <JTURNER.92Nov6181803@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
jturner@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner) writes:
>50,000 American dead vs. 3 million Vietnamese dead.

The figure I have heard most commonly for US casualties is more like 68,000
dead.  I have seen figures ranging from 1 to 3 million for the Vietnamese;
it is very difficult to make an accurate estimate.
-- 
Dave Kohr     CS Graduate Student     Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Work: 3244 DCL, (217)333-6561  Home: (217)359-9350  E-mail: drk@cs.uiuc.edu
                   "One either has none or not enough."
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
Subject: Re: Veterans' Day
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:54:13 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Nov12.135532.28226@kodak.kodak.com>, henry@kodak.kodak.com (R.W.Henry) writes:

|> 
|> I had to point out that the difference, the significant difference, was
|> that the people who did most of the planning, the people cheering the
|> loudest, were the PARENTS!  From day one, they were tying yellow ribbons,
|> they were the ones who stood up to the anti-war crowd, they were the ones
|> to make sure the "media" got it right, and they were the ones who,
|> win or lose, were going to celebrate the homecoming.
|> 
Excuse me, but as a member of the "anti-war crowd", why was
it necessary for parents of soldiers to "stand up" to me?

Are you going to claim (as has been claimed about the
Vietnam war based on a small number of incidents) that
we were sorry to see these young men come home safely?

I'm tired of hearing the repetition of the (99.9% false)
statement that people who oppose a particular war
either support the enemy or hate the soldiers or
weren't relieved to see them come home safe.

Just for the record so that people won't forget again
25 years later: We were protesting against the
*government policy,* not the soldiers!

I know that you can point to some well-publicized
incidents where returning soldiers were spat upon
by protestors, but I think that's far outweighed
by incidents where protestors were abused by
war supporters.

I had thought that we were beginning to heal the
rifts between pro- and anti-war folk.  That had
started to happen until some ugly rhetoric
during this Presidential election campaign
heated it up again.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: olsenm@ccmail.orst.edu (Monte Olsen)
Newsgroups: alt.war.vietnam
Subject: Re: Effects of US war protestors (was Re: Stockdale....)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:58:29 GMT
Organization: OSU Extension Service
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A723E722F203A70D@reynolde-mac.ads.orst.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 9 Nov 92 18:00:02 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <1992Nov8.131003.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>
Greg Franklin, f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>
>In any case, if you're going to the memorial, I'd like it
if you could
>tell a little about the ceremony.  I've never been there,
but would like
>to go sometime.
>-- 
>Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how
do you spell relief?"


Greg,
No argument with any of what you said, bro. But I'll be
damned if I'll allow some of the comments about one-sided
brutality go unanswered. It is an absolute injustice to
those who were there to leave such comments alone. It
honestly doesn't do my blood pressure any good to read
these things and respond to them. And, I'm afraid, when I
get angry any logic evades this half brain, so the
statements may seem somewhat spurious. For that I
apologize. 

I was going to the "Moving Wall" in Portland, OR last
weekend. But, to tell the truth, I didn't want to go by
myself. My blood bro (older) also spent a year in Nam (as
did my cousin) and I wanted to go with him. He, like me,
was afraid how he would react. He went through more than I
did, was there from 10-67 to 10-68 as a grunt, and I
didn't want to push him. But, to tell the truth, after
some of the things said here by Tuan, et. al., I felt a
strong desire to get up there. Couldn't convince him to go
with me and was too afraid to go by myself. However, I
subscribe to another BBS where people also are going and
promise to describe how things went. I'll post some of
their comments here if you like.

Take care of yourself,

Monte
Newsgroups: alt.war,alt.desert-storm,alt.war.vietnam
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Veterans and Remembrance Day
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:58:18 GMT

	The 11th of November marks the Armistice that ended the First
	World War and is remembered in Britain as Remembrance Day and
	in the U.S. as Veterans day.  I thought that some lines from
	the soldier and poet Siegfried Sassoon might be apropriate to
	remind us why this day is marked.


	Repression of War Experience

	Now light the candles; one; two, there's a moth;
	What silly beggars they are to blunder in
	And scorch their wings with glory, liquid flame -
	No, no, not that, - it's bad to think of war,
	When thoughts you've gagged all day come back to scare you;
	And it's been proved that soldiers don't go mad
	Unless they lose control of ugly thoughts
	That drive them out to jabber among the trees.

	Now light your pipe; look, what a steady hand.
	Draw a deep breath; stop thinking; count fifteen,
	And you're as right as rain...
				      Why won't it rain?...
	I wish there'd be a thunderstorm tonight,
	With bucketsful full of water to sluice the dark,
	and make the roses hang their dripping heads.
	Books; what a jolly company they are,
	Standing so quiet and patient on their shelves,
	Dressed in dim brown, and black, and white, and green,
	And every kind of colour.  Which will you read?
	Come on; O _do_ read something; they're so wise.
	I tell you all the wisdom of the world
	Is waiting for you on those shelves; and yet
	You sit and gnaw your nails, and let your pipe out,
	And listen to the silence: on the ceiling
	Ther's one big, dizzy moth that bumps and flutters ;
	And in the breathless air outside the house
	The garden waits for something that delays.
	There must be crowds of ghosts among the trees, -
	Not people killed in battle, -they're in France, -
	But horrible shapes in shrouds - old men who died
	Slow, natural deaths, -old men with ugly souls,
	Who wore their bodies out with nasty sins.
	You're quiet and peaceful, summering safe at home;
	You'd never think there was a bloody war on!...
	O yes, you would... why, you can hear the guns.
	Hark! Thud, thud, thud, quite soft... they never cease-
	Those whispering guns - O Christ, I want to go out
	And screech at them to stop - I'm going crazy;
	I'm going stark staring mad because of those guns.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Powered Body Armor
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:51:27 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <Uf0bywu00iV4029adc@andrew.cmu.edu> js43+@andrew.cmu.edu (James William Stepanek) writes:
>City fighting would also bee a good use,
>considering that they would act as very small light tanks, and be
>(hopefully) proof from sniper fire.

  The trouble is that snipers nowadays also use RPG-s and rifle grenades as 
seen on the Balkans and in the Caucasus. I don't think it is possible to make a
powered body armour that is RPG-proof, and since RPG-s and similar are 
peanuts in comparision to the probably hideously expensive power armours...

>James Stepanek
>esp

-bertil-
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Women in Combat
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:54:08 GMT


    Recently there has been much talk of women and thier role in combat
here in the US.
    I am wondering how many examples there are in modern times of women
fighting in regular or near-regular units. I know that there were female
pilots used by the USSR in WWII.

    What other examples are there?

DanZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.  

Newsgroups: alt.war
From: tobeor@pmafire.inel.gov (Ray Hoover)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:44:18 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: How to get a bronze star?
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <1992Nov11.205959.9290@news.columbia.edu> dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>
>    My brother-in-law won a Bronze Star in Vietnam. Since he _never_
>talks about his experiences there, I was wondering what kind of things you
>get a Bronze Star for.
>   The medal says "for valour or meritorious conduct" which could be just
>about anything.
>a
Unfortunately in Viet Nam what was needed to be awarded a Bronze Star depended upon whether you were an officer of an enlisted man.  My observation was that for an officer of high rank say a Lt. Col or higher, all that was needed was to be withing a few miles of where the bullets were flying.  For officers of lower rank, they had to be in the general area, while for enlisted men, the requirement was to have actually to have risked their lives.  Of course there were exceptions to what I just said, but that 
about sums up what I observed.
>DanZ
>(ps: my last three articles should not have come out as followups to each
>other, but it appears in trn that they are. funny.)
>
>-- 
>This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
>narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
>not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.  
>


Newsgroups: alt.war
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:52:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.230855.444@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>
>And I think that the politically correct liberals who are pushing for women
>in combat roles have no regard whatever for the combat capability of the
>armed forces--what's important to them is that women should have a good
>career path. To my mind, the armed forces ought not to be a vehicle for
>social experimentation--they exist for one reason and one reason only, and
>that is to fight. I oppose doing anything that might harm their ability to
>carry out that mission. 
>

   Glad you support women in the military.
   According to the studies I have heard about, if you want to limit the
armed forces to only the most capable and efficient soldiers, then the army
would be all lesbians.

   I almost choked on your "good career path" line. You should write those
"be all you can be" ads.

   Is there any evidence that the average soldier is significantly different
from the average woman?

DanZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:47:01 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <1992Nov12.174849.12064@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>I think she/they should be in their late stages toward becoming fighter 
>pilots by now, possibly they're doing in-squadron tactical training or 
>something like that.

  As a note to our American readers, there is only one type of pilot in the
Swedish AF and that is the fighter pilot. When they get up into their 40's(?)
the best ones to on to become instructors or transport/FAC pilots and those
not so lucky get to pilot a desk.
  So there is no such thing as a non-combat pilot.

>Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se

-bertil-
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery)
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
	<1992Nov11.205408.9168@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Nov11.180642.27283@ms.uky.edu> <1992Nov12.120548.1857@cas.org>
	<1992Nov12.171506.29709@menudo.uh.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:34:19 GMT

Irrespective of the correctness of the DoD Homosexual policy, I find
the recent court decision a very bad precedent.  If soldiers (etc.)
can sue the Army (etc) and be granted temporary relief (e.g.
reinstatement in this case) while the suit is pending, this is not a
good thing. 

Are we going to be subjected to a wide variety of lawsuits against any
policy (e.g. K.P., assignments, attack orders, etc) that someone
doesn't like?

				dave

Newsgroups: alt.war
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:15:06 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Nov12.120548.1857@cas.org> jac54@cas.org writes:

[women in combat stuff]
> 	I find the U.S. attitude rather strange.  The U.S. military has, to
> 	its great credit, been far ahead of society in some fields, notably
> 	in racial integration.  I wonder if this is the last stand of
> 	the reactionaries.
> 	Alec Chambers

  Speaking of this, I hear today where the courts have forced the Navy to re-
instate someone discharged becuase he was gay.  President-elect Bill Clinton
has also expressed his displeasure with the US military's regs against homo-
sexuality.  Looks like another barrier is about to go down.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:05:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.180642.27283@ms.uky.edu> randy@ms.uky.edu (Randy Appleton) writes:
>dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>
>
>>    Recently there has been much talk of women and thier role in combat
>>here in the US.
>>    I am wondering how many examples there are in modern times of women
>>fighting in regular or near-regular units. I know that there were female
>>pilots used by the USSR in WWII.
>
>>    What other examples are there?
>
>The Israeli army back during the foundation of Israel is another
>example.  Also the Russians used women in many combat roles, not just
>as pilots.
>
>Several months ago I saw the air force Chief of Staff tell congress
>that he would rather *reduce* the effectiveness of the air force
>rather than allow women in combat.
>
>Last week a special commission decided that women should *not* be let
>in combat in the U.S. military, except for certain non-submarie ships.
>In particular, not on aircraft, even though it is held that women's
>bodies are *better* at high-g activity than men.  Also, one quote from
>a dissenter from the commission said that the commission realyy wanted
>no change at all, but felt politicaly thatsome change is needed.  The
>navy was picked as punishment becuase of the recient 'tailhook' scandal.
>
	There was a letter dealing with this in the Proceedings of the
	U.S. Naval Institute (Nov. issue) from a senior naval officer
	in Canada.  His opinion that the integration of women into
	the RCN had gone well and had not affected effectiveness or
	combat readiness.  I believe that the Canadians (or one of the
	Scandinavian nations) also allows women to qualify as fighter
	pilots.

	On the other hand, have the Israelis not been pleased with their
	experiences with women in combat?

	I find the U.S. attitude rather strange.  The U.S. military has, to
	its great credit, been far ahead of society in some fields, notably
	in racial integration.  I wonder if this is the last stand of
	the reactionaries.

	Alec Chambers
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Women in Combat
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:25:21 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.

In article <EMERY.92Nov12133419@Dr_No.mitre.org> emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery) writes:
>Irrespective of the correctness of the DoD Homosexual policy, I find
>the recent court decision a very bad precedent.  If soldiers (etc.)
>can sue the Army (etc) and be granted temporary relief (e.g.
>reinstatement in this case) while the suit is pending, this is not a
>good thing. 
>
>Are we going to be subjected to a wide variety of lawsuits against any
>policy (e.g. K.P., assignments, attack orders, etc) that someone
>doesn't like?
>
   Well, you can do this already. But you probably won't get much support
from the courts for getting out of KP.
   The point is that you shouldn't change a persons status while they appeal
a ruling against them. This is particularly true in the case of employment.
If you get fired, you are out of work. If you feel you have been fired
wrongly, then you sue. But you certainly can't live for 6 months to one year
waiting for a court to hear your case without a job.

   I don't think the court ordered him to be placed back in his old unit
with the same duties and responsabilities. If they feel they will win the
case, they can put him on some unimportant job.

danZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Dan Guerrero)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: PC Games
Date: 5 Nov 92 05:08:43 GMT
Organization: not enough

In article <COACHO.92Nov3105307@black.iesd.auc.dk> coacho@iesd.auc.dk writes:
>
>I recommend No Greater Glory, wich is published by
>Strategic Simulation Group (I think!)

Why??

--
Dan Guerrero : dguerrer@rigel.hac.com    Hughes Aircraft Co. Denver,CO
==========================================================================
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 
"social sciences" is: some do, some don't.  -Ernest Rutherford
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: bjm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Bobbie J. Mann)
Subject: Re: PC Games
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 09:35:05 GMT

Are these games available for the Macintosh, or just IBM and compatibles?

Roland


Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: coacho@iesd.auc.dk (Flemming S. Jensen)
Subject: PC Games
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Distribution: alt.war.civil.usa
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:21:13


I recommend No Greater Glory, because its the only game I have seen
that puts you in the presidents seat in either the south or the north.
That means that you have to put down strategies, not only for the armies, 
but also for your economic policies, foreign affairs and so on.

You appoint you own cabinet, and you choose your ambassadeurs in England
and France. You also appoint the generals, but the most popular generals
have to have one of the big armies or you will loose support in his home
state.

All this makes the game extremely complex and difficult wich again makes
the game interesting to play again and again and.....


Flemming