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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:00:33 -0400
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Heaven,

Excerpts from christia: 29-Sep-92 Re: Heaven, Stephen P. Kingston@ABER (3465)

> which sounds almost the same, but I would contest that James uses a
> different connotation to the verb "to justify" to Paul. James is not saying
> that man is saved by his works, but that his faith is made perfect through
> them.

More specifically and Scripturally, he is saying that good deeds makes
faith _complete_.  That is, faith is useless without works, as James
says -- useless, not real faith, unable to save, unable to justify.
It's not just a "better" faith -- it is only faith that can truly save
("Can such a faith save him?")

What Paul said is correct -- we are saved by faith, and not by works
_apart from faith_.  Paul never said, however, that deeds played no part
in this -- besides the fact that Paul is speaking of the Jewish law, and
James is speaking of Christian good deeds of charity.  Paul never said
we were saved by faith _alone_.

> I say again, I believe that James is talking about what we, with our
> theological
> hats on, call sanctification. James is saying that where there is faith
> there ought to be works too.

Indeed he says that there _must_ be good deeds to complete the faith,
for without those deeds, the faith is not a saving faith -- it is not
real faith, it is only on the level of the demons who believe.  The
demons believe in the Son of God, but they certainly aren't thereby
justified, now are they?

> No, I am aware of the Catholic position which I believe amounts to a faith
> plus works situation, which is why I contrasted this to "faith alone".

> However, I feel that such a view robs us of the joy of working for the
> Lord, for if you work merely to maintain your salvation then you live in
> as much fear as a muslim who attempts to achieve his salvation through
> good works (with a sprinkling of grace thrown in).

> If you know that your sonship is secure then good works can become a
> joy, and we can know some of that freedom, as well as that peace of God
> which Paul talks about.

Paul tells us in Philippians to "work out our salvation with fear and
trembling" (NIV).  Not sure that assurance is justified here.  But you
are wrong if you say that such a view robs us of the joy of working for
the Lord.  Anyone who truly has faith will have no fear of losing his
salvation, not because he can't, but because Christ has offered the
grace to us to persevere and anyone who has saving faith in Christ will
naturally do what God asks.  The only one who has anything to fear is
the rebellious son who won't obey.  Do you live in fear that your
parents will disown you?  Do you deny that they can, or will if you
behave wickedly enough?  Do you live in fear of having your national
citizenship revoked? Of course not!  You would never contemplate doing
anything that would cause you to have your national citizenship revoked!
 Yet you know it is possible to lose that citizenship.

How do you understand the parable of the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew
25:21ff? Those we feed the hungry, welcomed strangers, clothed the
naked, ministered to the sick, and visited the prisoners were welcomed
into the Kingdom; those who did not were condemned.  No mention of faith
here.  How does one reconcile this with salvation by faith alone?

Eric
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