From: tgtchb@tb3.chem.tue.nl (Harold C.L. Baur)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Ouija - some thoughts...
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:08:46 GMT
Reply-To: tgtchb@chem.tue.nl

toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater) writes:

>In article <tgtchb.720799530@tb3.chem.tue.nl> tgtchb@chem.tue.nl writes:

>The reason for the effect you observe is that the information must be
>filtered through the minds and belief systems of the participants.
>Thus there is always a certain amount of 'distortion' -- the truth for
>me is not the same as the truth for you.
>For example, if I am a theoretical physicist, and I try to get information
>about theoretical physics, it *may* come through relatively undistorted,
>depending on things like how open my mind is.
>However, if I have a 2nd grade education, and I try to get information
>about theoretical physics, it is bound to be considerably more garbled.
>In this case I simply would not have the vocabulary or thought patterns
>necessary to obtain the information clearly.

   The filtering effect would indeed account for some messages being
   being rather quizically. But in this I don't see an explanation for 
   all the "gaps" in the answers you get. 

>>  But, if I was to roll a dice - hiding the outcome from everybody's eyes -
>>  and asked what side came up - the reponse would vary from vague to
>>  insulting (which is mysterious-and funny-enough I guess :-) but never
>>  would it be satisfying, let alone correct.
>You make the common error of assuming that the 'spirits' (if you wish to
>call the information that) are omniscient, which is never the case.

    Hmmm, I may indeed expecting too much here... let me put it this way:
    The whole thing depends on wether "the spirits" have some way of
    absorbing information from their surroundings OTHER than using the minds
    of the participants. Having heard about dancing tables and ectoplasmatic
    appearances, it would seem a piece of cake to check out what side of the
    dice shows up. But of course, if the "presences" can only reveal their
    existance THROUGH or minds or work with information coming FROM our
    minds, than the whole dice-experiment is useless. On the other hand, 
    if that is the case, I am ready to believe they only exist IN our minds, 
    which brings me back to my first mailing.
 
>The real question is, what was your intent in performing this experiment?
>If you simply intended it as a frivolous thing, and 'knew' deep down that
>it wouldn't work, than this intent/attitude will likely lead to the
>inconclusive results you experienced.
>On the other hand, maybe you were serious about it, and wanted to really
>know if there was anything to this psychic stuff.
>In this case it is more likely that your results will be positive.
>But there is more stuff that needs to be considered.

  My intention was very serious (and still is) and I got some really 
  interesting other results... it's just that this dice thing struck me,
  and I was trying to assemble a nice "theory" to account for the things 
  I experienced. After some time I kinda felt I didn't ABSOLUTELY need 
  "spirits" in that theory... but who knows...
  Anyway, what you write comes down to this (correct me if I am wrong) :
  "It only works when your initial attitude towards it is positive."
  I get a very funny picture about higher presences that NEED me believing
  in them in order to get things going... dunno... but maybe those presences
  are more human that we (I) like to think of them.    

>Have you considered what would happen if you *did* get positive results?
>What effect would this have on your life?

   Hmmm. I don't think I would suffer more or other effects than the people 
   who already DO believe in it and ARE getting positive results.

>Would you suddenly start to play the lottery?

   Attempting :-)

>Do you really believe deep down that having this kind of power would be
>beneficial for you?

   Well, the people who claim to have paranormal powers usually seem
   pretty happy with their lives. I am happy too by the way. I am merely
   interested it because the whole thing (whatever is causing it) is so
   bloody intriguing :-)  

>If not, then maybe subconsciously (or whatever) you really *don't*
>want a positive result.

   Who knows? My subconsciousness may play MANY tricks with me :-)
   
>Anyway, the point is, this is a much more complex subject that it appears.

  I agree.
 
>By the way, it's usually spelled 'Ouija'. :-)

  Yeah, I apqlqgise for that :-)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories