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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:03:36 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2873
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                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2873

                          Thursday, August 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 684

                            Flipper Moves Ahead O
                               Re: music help
                             Re: "Blind Loyalty"
                          Re: braille n speak compl
                              Re: Screen Reader
                          Re: what is a team player
                             Re: what a surprise
                          Re: Braille And Spelling
                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                               Re: conventions


                                ******


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Subject: Flipper Moves Ahead O
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message 07-29-92 (20:19) From: KEITH BUCHER To: STEVE RICHARDS
KB>Hi Steve, Maybe it could if Doug would have implemented more of
KB>my suggestions.  I don't think he realizes just how few changes
KB>it would take.  Oh well, I tried.

You sure did.  And, hey, you had some success.  The biggest stumbling
block seems to be the many ways the PC cursor is still not recognized
verbally, and I would also have to pick on the lack of cursor beeps.
It's peculiar; most people don't understand what the cursor beeps can
do.  They are a quicker, less-annoying way than verbal prompts to know
when a word processor has loaded, when a disk save is completed, when a
new menu has been displayed, etc.  A single high-pitched beep as the
cursor jumps to line 1 column 1 is one heck of a lot faster than
hearing, "Doc 1 PG 1 LN 1 POS 11" and there's no need to silence the
speech.  If I had to listen to the message lines every time I summoned a
familiar procedure I'd go batty real quick!  We're supposed to be trying
to equal sighted folks in our speed and efficiency, doggone it!

KB>subject, I put out a message about obtaining a program to copy the
KB>volume label and so far no takers.  So how about uploading such a
KB>program in the near future, Okay?  I'm sure others could use it as
KB>well.  And another thing.  Before you got on, I've seen discussion on
KB>here about the dictionary for the Accent, so you might want to
KB>upload yours to BlinkLink so that it can get spread around.  Now if you
KB>could just get each vendor to send you their synthesizer, you could
KB>write a dictionary for each one, those which allow such things, that is.
KB>I have those messages of mine you missed and they're waiting for the
KB>disk. Keith

Ok, I'll try to get that little program written real soon.  It's not
really hard, it just requires direct disk writes.  Good idea; I think I
*will* upload my dictionary to Blink Link.  I'll be getting a disk and
tape out to you in the near future, but at this moment I'm working on
that information for Chuck Hallenbeck.
Steve

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Subject: Re: music help
From: John.Sanfilippo@p0.f102.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (John Sanfilippo)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/102.0 - The Event Horizon, Bay Ridge NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Sorry, I should've put it in right away.  Why not deal direct:

Magnetic Music
647 W. Orange Grove
Pomona, CA     91768
(714) 865-0407

A word of advice: Your speech software should be able to track a
specified ASCII cursor: It happens that if you want to do any
detailed editing, Texture uses an enhanced control P and control
Q to surround bits of midi data being edited. These are always
direct screen writes for speed which will not be spoken unless
the speech can report what it finds between these specified
characters.

Good luck
jjcs

... Help stamp out, eliminate and abolish redundancy!

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Subject: Re: "Blind Loyalty"
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Darryl!  I wish you would have introduced youself if you saw me in
Phoenix!  I'd like to meet you.  Oh well, hopefully another time.

I agree that one should not make a point of publicizing dissent since
this may emphasize it unnecessarily.  However, the issue of NFB's
democracy or lack thereof is being discussed.  It is relevant for those
who steadfastly maintain that it is democratic despite articles,
personal stories, and other evidence to the contrary--to provide some
eviddense in their defense.  I am not saying that someone should
personally or politically attack another member of the NFB, just give a
couple of significant examples of differences of opinion between that
person and the leadership view, such as is prompted in the Braille
Monitor.  After all, this publications's motto is that "The National
Federation of the Blind is not an organization speaking for the blind;
it is the blind speaking for themselves."  All right then, would a
member please speak for him or herself?  Surely, all members "speaking
for themselves" is not the same as "an organization speaking for the
blind," otherwise their there would no point in the statement being
made in the first place!

Wishing to remain active in state and national issues affecting blind
people and believing in the importance of collective action, I did
after of reflection join the American Council of the Blind.  As I've
said in another message here, I find the major strength of NFB to be
its philosophy of blindness and the major strength of ACB to be its
democracy.  I wish there were a single organization that combined the
two strengths.  I don't think NFB will be able to become more
democratic as long as Jernigan is around because he has such a
need/desire for control.  I do believe it is possible for ACB to become
stronger philsophically and part of what convinced me to join is that I
have seen this trend in recent year.  For example, it has taken stands
supporting at least minimum wage for blind sheltered shop workers and
the right of blind persons to be travel instructors.  Unfortunately, I
think that some of the less progressive positions of ACB in the past
were mainly over-reactions to NFB.  This is changing, however and I i
would like to contribute to such changes that evaluate issues on the
meritsand from the perspective of the consumer interests and long-term
interests of blind people.  NFB, has, from my overservation, actually
been regressing in this orientation.

Regards,

Jamal

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Subject: Re: braille n speak compl
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 TW> that is the extent of it. that is one reason I would never buy
 TW> this seventeen hundred dollar

Tandy,
    Just for the sake of accuracy, and since I now see that it is the
old model BnS your employer purchased..

    It has a retail price of $895,  and the 640k has a price of $1299.
    The Blazie personal braille printer, the Blazer, costs about $1700,
so maybe that's why you've heard that figure being tossed around...
                                        Willie

... It's easy to see both sides of an issue you're not concerned with!

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Subject: Re: Screen Reader
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 GP>    I'll ask you a third time.  Please state the specific
 GP>    deficiencies you think exist in IBM's Screen Reader.  What
 GP>  do other packages provide that Screen Reader doesn'

Greg,
    I don't particularly want to get involved in this discussion, but..

    I think David's saying that Screen Reader is dependant upon a
knowledge of PAL to make it work well is fairly specific.  Likewise,
your claim that it doesn't is just as specific, no more and mo less.

     Now then, 99% of us out here, who have never seen Screen Reader, are
being left in the position of having to decide which of you is telling
us the truth, assuming that both of you have the same opinion as to what
is user friendly in the way of speech and what is not!

     Wouldn't it be nice if we could all get our hands on a demo of
Screen Reader so we wouldn't have to leave this debate up to just you
two?
                                        Willie

... I always listen!

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Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: what is a team player
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DC>   my view of the
 DC> organization is mor like that of a union than a club.  If a
 DC> union is involved in a strike action the union can't put on a
 DC> public display of disunity because that defeats the whole
 DC> purpose of the strike action.  I think the nfb looks at life as
 DC> a strike action.  This is gross over-simplification, but I'm
 DC> only trying to communicate why I believe Jernigan believes team
 DC> play is so important.  If you put a religious organization on
 DC> one extreme and a club on the other,organizations like the nfb
 DC> come somewhere in the middle.
I think you are right about this union thing, Doug.  I think the N.F.B.,
in our efforts to assist blind individuals with their employment
problems, as well as with other areas of discrimination, must have a
very unified spirit.  If we are always quibbling about small details of
a case, we could never get anywhere.  However, I think we must always be
able to have a point of view and discuss it openly with Mr. Jernigan, or
anyone else with whom we feel it is important to discuss it, and I think
we should be able to feel we can do that without reprisals.  I think
sometimes that does not happen.  We do, however, have a somewhat
religious leaning as well, but I think for those of us who have a really
strong faith in something, we do not worship anyone at the top of any
organization, whether it is religious or the N.F.B.

 DC>               In that religious organization I used to belong
 DC>  to, what happened is that the clergy began to identify
 DC>  themselves too much with God,and interposed themselves between
 DC>  the rest of us and God.  They taught that commitment to God
 DC>  equaled commitment to the organization.  Logically, then,the
 DC>  organization equals God.  It sounds to me like you guys are
 DC>  saying that in Jernigan's mind and in the minds of staunch nfb
 DC>  supporters that the cause equals Jernigan.  If what you say is
 DC>  correct, then the same thing will happen to the nfb that
 DC>  happened to the religious organization I used to belong to.
 DC>  After Jernigan is gone there will be a power vacuum and some
 DC>  egos will try to fill it not having the understanding of the
 DC>  cause or commitment to the cause which supposedly motivates
 DC>  Jernigan, bu will only be interested in holding the same power
 DC>  he has. disciples away after themselves and split the
 DC>  organization.  I rendered an ineffective ruin.
I think what you have said here is a concern.  I believe that when any
person is in power for a very long time, it is hard to let go of it,
particularly when that person has invested so much of life and energy in
it, and if that is true, the kind of power struggle you speak of is a
real possibility.  Many are being groomed for this eventuality, so
perhaps this will never happen.  Perhaps those of us who have that
concern are just over reacting.

I personally am very much committed to the cause and not the leadership,
and I hope that people can see this difference.  Many of us really do
feel that way.

Cindy Hallenbeck

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Subject: Re: what a surprise
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Bill,

About the NFB Hams.  The dues are $5.  The club is hoping to affiliate
with ARRL, and there has to be 50%, I think it is, of the members who
are ARRL Members.  I suppose you must be a member of the NFB to be in
the group, but you were, at least before.  Anyway, that's the only
requirement.  I can ask Curt Willoughby about it.

No, I hadn't heard about your job.  I'd like to know more about it.  I
hope you are enjoying it as much as I am enjoying mine.

Thank you for the nice complement.

Cindy H.

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Subject: Re: Braille And Spelling
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DM>> I remember in second grade when my father asked me to
 DM>> spell the word "good", and I blurted out "g d"!  It
 DM>> came as a horrible shock to them and me too.  I then
 DM>> realized the dangers of grade 2 braille.
I haven't followed this discussion much until Chuck mentioned the
discussion about the spelling of "good" "gd."  When I was a kid and,
yes, this was after the invention of braille (grins!) We had a spelling
book that had the grade 2 sign along with the full spelling.  I was
always a good speller, and I think that people who use it can glance at
a word and easily determine from the contractions whether it is spelled
correctly, for braille rules take sylabification, etc. into
consideration.  However, I suspect when a child is learning to spell, it
is good to use the full spelling of the word next to the contracted
spelling.  No one could ever learn to spell "knowledge" by just seeing
the "k", and it wouldn't take long for most  kids to figure out that
there must be more to it.  I don't know how spelling is taugh to
children these days.

Cindy

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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Chuck Hallenbeck to William Wilson 31 Jul 92 20:39:52

 CH> Boy, that BNS is really being pushed to be something that it is not. I
 CH> recently paid $1000 for a brand new notebook computer that weighs five
 CH> pounds, has 640k, a 20M fixed disk, a 3.5 inch floppy, and runs DOS 5,
 CH> the 4DOS shell, and I installed WordStar version 7 and a whole
 CH> shipload of other neat stuff. How much do they want for the BNS 640
 CH> nowadays that runs one external program?

Hello Chuck, I could be wrong, but I think it's about $1,300.00 or
so.  Furthermore, Blazie wants $500.00 for an external 3.5 floppy
drive.  Oh well, what can I say.  You know Chuck, I've said on this
echo before, and I'll say it again.  It isn't all bad, but for the
price of that bNS, and taking in to account how little it can actually
do along with the notebooks out there such as yours, why in the world
does everyone and his brother, and sister, for that matter, seem to have
one?  I must have seen several hundred of them in Phoenix.  Just kidding
you about that braille printer. I'd say you might want to consider the
Juliet or BookMaker. I'm just a little worried that the dot height
adjustment won't be in the Juliet, but hope so.  I should know a lot
more about it when the manual comes out.  Keith.

... ICE CUBES ARE A HOT ITEM IN HELL.

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Subject: Re: conventions
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Bill Burgess to Tandy Way 29 Jul 92 21:23:02

 BB> On the subject of
 BB> conventions, I have no idea what they cost on average for registration
 BB> and accommodation.

Hello Bill, rooms at ACB conventions are usually about $45.00 to $50.00
per night, at least that's what they've been since Richmond in 1989.
If you want the convention program the registration fee is but $5.00.
But I warn you, once you go you're hooked!  At least that's what
happened to me.  I may miss San Francisco but have gone to several.
Hope this helps.  Keith Bucher.

... On a clear disk you can seek forever

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                  End of Issue # 2873 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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