HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: Morris: more fuel for this debate
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 19:09:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.173858.3022@unixg.ubc.ca> stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis) writes:

>Has anyone noticed that Morris has only been allowing a BA of .204 at home?
>The Skydome is a hitters ballpark and he is allowing only .204!!  This is
>#1 in the League among pitchers who were on opening-day American League ML 
>rosters for.  

This is certainly a point in his favor. And yes, Morris has been a
good pitcher this year.

But BA is not all there is to baseball. And if I recall, Morris has
a history of leading the league in most home runs allowed. I'd be more
impressed if Morris was leading the league in slugging percentage
allowed.

Of course, none of that matters very much.

For batters we have to deal with measures like BA and SLG and OBA
because there is no easy way to figure out how much a given hitter
contributes to the runs his team scores. For pitchers, we have
better indices like ERA (or RA) that pretty much tell exactly how
good a pitcher has been. They are some problems with RA, but most
of these same problems apply just as much to BA allowed or similar
stats.

So even though Morris has allowed a low opposition BA, he does not
have a particularly good ERA. So he's allowing runs. A low BA tells
me that he's not allowing a whole lot of hits. But with an ERA like
his, he *must* be giving up *something* that causes a lot of runs. 

Maybe walks. Maybe extra base hits.

Either way, we know he's giving up these runs. Why does it matter
how these runs are scored?


-- 
Dave Eisen    dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU   Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
      There's something in my library to offend everybody.
        --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
From: ahn@pop.cis.yale.edu (Eugene R. Ahn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The Superlatives of the NL
Date: 4 Oct 92 06:25:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Yale University

Best starting pitcher: Greg Maddux (superior ratio, KO, wins, consistency)
Best relief pitcher: Doug Jones (Lee Smith's 41 offset by BS, W-L, ERA)
Best middle relief pitcher: Mike Perez (9 wins, sub 2.00 era, over 75
games)
Best control: Bob Tewksbury (anyone disagree?)
Best KO artist: David Cone (now in AL)
Most surprising pitcher: Mike Morgan (who would have thought this...at
Wrigley)
Best second half pitcher: Doug Drabek (again)
Best acquired pitcher (free agency or trade): Curt Schilling
Best rookie starting pitcher: Rheal Cormier (what a 2nd half!) 
Most promising rookie pitcher: Pedro Astacio
Best rookie relief pitcher: John Wetteland
Most likely pitcher to get rocked (on the team for a while): Kyle Abbott
Most disappointing pitcher: Andy Benes
Best comeback pitcher: Doug Jones
Most underrated starting pitcher: Ken Hill
Most underrated relief pitcher: Mel Rojas
Most exciting starter to watch: John Smoltz
Most exciting reliever to watch: Rob Dibble

MVP: Terry Pendleton (the core of the Atlanta Braves each day)
Best hitter: Gary Sheffield (great in the clutch, superior power, average,
RBI)
Best power hiter: Fred McGriff
Best power-speed hitter: Barry Bonds (waaah! they're pitching around me!) 
Best leadoff man: Bip Roberts
Fastest hitter: Marquis Grissom
Best rookie hitter: Eric Karros
Most promising rookie hitter: Reggie Sanders
Best new starting hitter: Dave Hollins
Worst contact hitter: Pete Incaviglia
Best contact hitter: Tony Gwynn (two worlds apart, these two)
Best comeback hitter: Darren Daulton
Best Canadian hitter: Larry Walker (deserves an award of some sort)
The No-Pain No-Gain Philosopher/Hitter: Andy Van Slyke
Best comeback for a "failed" rookie: Bernard Gilkey
Most disappointing hitter: Matt Williams
The hitter most superior to all others at one position: Darren Daulton
(Ryne Sandberg usually wins this one)
Sweetest swing: Always Will Clark though it didn't do as much this year
Most Awkward swing: Jeff Bagwell's topswing

Best catch of the year: Otis Nixon's leap over the fence grab during the
Braves winning stretch. Put a punctuation on the Braves push to re-win the
pennant
Best Manager: Jim Leyland (I still don't understand how he did it)
Worst Manager: Jeff Torborg is the easy choice, but I say, Greg Riddoch.
The Mets and Dodgers were bad teams. Riddoch is simply an awful manager.
Best Farm system: The Atlanta Braves (it's disturbing to follow their AA
and AAA clubs)
Most Promising Expansion Team: The Florida Marlins (a better organization)
 




--
Eugene "Mos Eisley" Ahn     ahn@suncis.cis.yale.edu
"What did you think of that reply?"
"No sir. I don't like it."
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cy Young?
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:43:17 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Just as the title line says.....Who should win the Cy Young

   O                                     There are two kinds of people:
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       The people who know alot, and
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         the people who want you to
  /     David Taylor Model Basin         think they know alot. The hard
   \___________________________          part is discerning the difference
			     \\          between the two.
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blue Jay musings...
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:16:13 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

well, if i were the jay  manager, i'd start cone in 1, 4, 7 (if necessary)
 
 but of course jack morris is great.  of course.        sheesh.


anyhow, that wasn't your question.  the a's do much better against lefties than righties.

i don't have this year's stats in front of me, but too many years of
 table baseball leagues made me remember that rickey is a god against
 lefties , lansford is pretty good against lefties, mcgwire is
 better against lefties, so is steinbach, and if dave henderson comes
 back, he's much better against lefties as well.

baines can't hit lefties, and i don't know about ruben, or any
 of the younger players.

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:18:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.225111.26316@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>>Was he the reason the Pirates lost?  
>
>If he had hit .300 in the 1991 NLCS would the Pirates have won?

Here's really the crux of why I think your argument is seriously flawed.

The Pirates and the Braves played a very tight series that went a full
seven games.  If you played that seven-game series again, and everybody had
the exact same cumulative performance over that seven-game series, there's
a good chance the outcome would be different.  

Hey, Jay Bell hit .414 in the 91 NLCS, and the Pirates lost.  Why do you
think Bonds hitting .300 would mean the Pirates would win?

It would seem to me that if you believe in "choke"/"clutch", you would
believe that the variance in performance over a seven-game playoff series
is higher than the variance in performance over some random 7-game stretch.
Do you?  And why?

>SGI doesn't pay me $3,000,000 a year so I wouldn't expect that kind
>of abuse.  If SGI *did* pay me $3,000,000 a year I would feel a
>lot more responsible for the company's performance and would accept
>blame if things went wrong. 

So, did "chokers" not exist in the old days, when players were paid poorly?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:29178 soc.culture.japan:8607
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Japan Central League
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:10:14 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo

Japan Central League Standings ( Through games on Tuesday October 6th)

                     W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Hanshin Tigers      66  60   2   .524   --
Yakult Swallows     66  60   1   .524   0.0
Yomiuri Giants      66  63   0   .512   1.5
Hiroshima Carp      66  63   0   .512   1.5
Taiyo Whales        61  68   1   .473   6.5
Chinichi Dragons    59  70   0   .457   8.5
-----------------

  I am so glad to hear that Katsumi Hirosawa's solo homer in the bottom of the
seventh inning lifted the beloved Yakult Swallows to a 1-0 victory over the
Hanshin Tigers Tuesday night at Tokyo's Jingu Stadium.
 The win pulled the beloved Yakult Swallows even with the Hanshin Tigers at the
Central League standings ( 66-60 records ) with four games left to play.
-------------------
Central League Leaders ( Through games on Tuesday October 6th)

Batting               AB   R   H   RBI   Pct.
^^^^^^^
Howell (Swallows)    432  63  123   81   .3271
O'Malley (Tigers)    462  54  121   80   .3270
Furuta (Swallows)    555  84  147   85   .3170
Paciorek (Tigers)    546  72  154   87   .3100
Komada (Giants)      552  73  155   64   .3093
Maeda (Carp)         581  82  151   89   .3087
Sheets (Whales)      533  61  149  100   .3080
--------------------

Home Runs
^^^^^^^^^
Howell (Swallows)     35
Ikeyama (Swallows)    30
Furuta (Swallows)     30
Hara (Giants)         28
Komada (Giants)       27
Sheets (Whales)       26
Moseby (Giants)       25
---------------------

Pitching               IP      SO   W   L   ERA
^^^^^^^^^
Morita (Whales)       131 2/3  80  14   6   2.05
Nakagomi (Tigers)     190     104   9   8   2.37
Nakada (Tigers)       212 1/3 189  13  12   2.54
Kitabeppu (Carp)      181 1/3 101  14   8   2.58
Saito (Giants)        182 2/3 144  16   6   2.66
Yufune (Tigers)       144 2/3 134  11   6   2.68
Ito (Swallows)        138      78   7   5   2.74
Okabayashi (Swallows) 197     131  15  10   2.97
----------------------

----- Hiroshi
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ Hiroshi Yajima, 
  / | /     /       /    NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories,
_/  _/    _/      _/     9 - 11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,
                         Tokyo, 180 Japan,  E-MAIL: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
                         TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254

                         
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith)
Subject: Birthdays
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:45:22 GMT


Baseball Birthdays

September 29
Mike McCormick, 1938
Harry Steinfeldt, 1876
Rich Reese, 1941
David L. Orr, 1859
Craig Lefferts, 1957
Rob Deer, 1960
Warren Cromartie, 1953
Gene Richards, 1953
Byron McLaughlin, 1955
Tim "Timmery Flanster" Flannery, 1957

--Steve
-- 
 sgs@u.washington.edu             * 
 Steve Smith                      * "We want a pitcher, not a belly itcher." 
 University of Washington HR-20   *    			-- Bill Plummer
 Seattle, WA 98195                * 		
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Why bother to watch the World Series?
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:34:35 GMT


In article 14804@leland.Stanford.EDU, daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao) writes:
>Of all the major sports in the United States, major league baseball
>has the most illogical and capricious system of determining home
>field advantage in the playoffs.  Since 1987, starting with the
>Twins, the team with both the home field advantage in the LCS and
>the World Series has won the championship.  
>
>The home field advantage is assigned in the following fixed order:
>
>This year
>LCS                       World Series
>American League   East
>National League   West    NL West
>
>Next year
>LCS
>American League   West    AL West
>National League   East
> 
>etc...
>
>Without even noticing what the teams did this season, all I have to
>know is that the Braves won their division in order for me to predict
>with confidence that they will win the World Series.  

So, explain the apparent anomaly in 1987 that brought the New York Mets
of the NLEast and the Boston Red Sox of the ALWest to the WS.

Or the dominance of the Yankees in the late 70's in WS play. 

And I guess the Tigers in '84 and the Buckos in '79 and Phillies in '80
are flukes. 

I admit, the last four teams also won their WS, and it could be reasoned
that they were so dominant in their year that home field would've had no
bearing on the outcome. 

You still need to win your games, plain and simple, home field or otherwise.
Should we lend credence to this conspiracy theory? I think not.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  1992 Election Ballot
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  For President-
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  ___ George Bush (GOP)
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |  ___ Bill Clinton (Dem)
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |  ___ H Ross Perot (Weenie)
******************************************************************************
From: tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: PIRATES AGIAIN!!!
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:10:39 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <kelrH_S00WBOQ6ZH4o@andrew.cmu.edu>, ed19+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric Alva Dunmire) writes:
> 
> 
> CLINCHED 3rd STRAIGHT !!!!
> 
> 
> ANY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!



  Calm down, dude.




-- 
Thomas Miller      Georgia Tech Network Services        GT EE 1992 (?!) 
WORK: (404) 853-0254 / Rich Bldg Rm 127, 258 4th St  Atlanta, Ga. 30332
HOME: (404) 351-1017 / 1185 Collier Rd NW apt 2A     Atlanta, Ga. 30318 
Internet:  tmiller@prism.gatech.edu   or   thomas.miller@oit.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bandwen@eagle.larc (bando)
Subject: Re: 1904 world series, or lack thereof
Reply-To: bandwen@eagle.larc (bando)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:53:26 GMT

 i've been continuing playing with my franklin baseball encyclopedia.  one
of the features that it has is the result of all the world series.  so i
go to the first world series, 1903, and it says, "RED SOX (AL) DEFEATED
PIRATES (NL), 5-3".  i then hit the "next" key to bring it to 1904, and
it says, "GIANTS (NL) REFUSED TO PLAY RED SOX (NL)".

what's the scoop?



--
John McGraw, manager of the Giant's at the time, refused to play an American League
team because it was "stealing" players from the National League.  This is what I've 
read anyway.

--bando


Newsgroups: rn,rec.sport.baseball
From: s_hallee@oz.plymouth.edu (garth)
Subject: allan anderson
Reply-To: s_hallee@oz.plymouth.edu (garth)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 03:30:10 GMT

Does anyone know what happened to allan anderson? The last I knew he
was in the minors doing rehab. does anyone have any info on that?
thanks in advance!!

---Steve---

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:01:38 GMT

In article <joeb.718377962@cserver> joeb@cserver.plexus.com (Joe Brotz) writes:
>IMO, it would be hard for anyone to produce any truly meaningful 
>statistics to measure the impact of a team's running game. Here are
>my observations of the running game's affect in a baseball game
>(obvious ones anyway):
>
>
>  1) the stolen base itself 

Well, it's certainly fairly easy to measure this one.  We have a pretty
good idea how stolen bases and caught stealings affect a team's offense.  

>  2) getting an extra base on the hit-and-run

Actually, this should be just getting an extra base, as in going from first 
to third.  The real effect we're after is is what effect is team speed and
aggressiveness having on the offense, and it doesn't matter if they got to
third because of a hit and run or simply because they were fast and
aggressive.  

We can measure things like how often teams go from first to third with play
by play data.

>  3) pressure on pitcher causing balks

This is also easy; did the team induce more balks than average.  Pretty
small effect, anyway, I'd say; most of the time, you're talking about
advancing a runner from 1st to second without an out.  A good thing, to be
sure, but we're probably talking less than 20 for the year. 

>  4) pressure on pitcher causing bad pitches (this one could  
>     have a HUGH impact, but how do you measure it?) 

Does the team get a bigger boost from batting with runners on than average?
Definitely measurable.

>  5) pressure on fielders causing errors (or just bad decisions)

The bad decisions part is difficult to measure, but we can definitely
measure whether the team caused their opponents to commit more errors.  We
just can't tell what that means.

>  6) avoiding double plays when the baserunner is in motion

Did the team hit into fewer double plays?  Again, the issue is not whether
they avoided double plays becaue the runner was in motion, or because they
were fast.  

>  7) extra pressure on the catcher (takes his mind off of calling
>     the game??)

I don't see any particular reason to distinguish this from (4) above; the
net result is bad pitching.

>  8) putting infielders out of position when they have to cover
>     the attempted stolen base (turns an out into a hit).

We can at least make an estimate of the bound of this effect with
hit-location data. 

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood)
Subject: Re: Expos logo
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:58:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.150542.26771@oracle.us.oracle.com> usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster) writes:
>
>The squiggly thing over the "E" is a French accent symbol, but since I
>don't know French at all, I can't help much.
>

What Ari means here is the acute accent over the "e" in "Montreal" on the
jerseys. This accent provides the french pronunciation of Montreal, with
the "e" pronounced "ay", as opposed to "ee".

Simon
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lead off walks....
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:20:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Oct3.142030.1346
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Oct2.194023.2681@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.130542.1330@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> 
>>What does irk me is that you and the other stat
>>heads are so damned rude to anyone who doesn't fall down and kiss your feet.
> 
> Aw!  I think I hurt his feelings.  Shame on me.  (Did anybody see me
> demanding that he kiss my feet?  Frankly, I'd rather keep uneducated
> idiots like him as far away from me as possible.)
> 
> Brandon states that 2 + 2 = 5.  I tell him (by e-mail, I think) that
> he's wrong.  He tells me "It's not your newsgroup, I can argue that 2
> + 2 = 5 if I want to."
> 
> And I wasn't even rude, the first time.

	*This* is the person that line was meant for.

	Nope, you didn't hurt my feelings. I simply refuse to listen to anyone
who is rude and arrogant, regardless of who is correct. If you are wrong,
ignoring you doesn't matter, and if you are right, agreeing with you will only
lead you to continue your crass, small-minded attacks on others, since you will
only get more self-righteous.

	Crude persons do not deserve to be listened to (if you consider me in
that group, *please* put me in your kill-file -- I wouldn't want to hear from
you until you learn not to be obnoxious, anyway).

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:19:22 GMT

In <1992Oct1.020833.9870@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <1992Sep30.225111.26316@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:

>>I don't think I am
>>ragging on Bonds the way people "rag" on Acker and Galarraga.
                                           ^^^^^
>Indeed.  Those people have good reason.  Those two players have no
>business being where they are.  

The unemployment line?  :->
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lead off walks....
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:31:47 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <GRABINER.92Sep30183837@germain.harvard.edu>, grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.153621.1287@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z writes:
> 
>> 	Okay, time for bad-but-possible-explaination-time:
> 
>> 	The avergae pitcher gives up a hit an inning. If a pitcher gives
>> up a single to lead off the inning, there is a good chance there won't
>> be another hit that inning. OTOH, if the pitcher leads off yeilding a
>> walk, the batting team still has that hit they are likely to pick up
>> later in the inning.
> 
> This is the gambler's fallacy.  The chance that a coin will land heads
> does not depend on the previous flip.  Likewise, the chance that a team
> will get a hit in the current inning does not depend on what happened in
> the earlier part of the inning.

	No, it is not gambler's fallacy; the chance of a team getting two hits
in an inning is less than the chance of them getting one hit in an inning.


Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: josh@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (joshua.h.rosenbluth)
Subject: Re: RC/MLV Study
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:25:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.170141.11358@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>Both of these points can be explained in that I believe MLV undervalues walks
>and OBP on the whole.  In addition, when you are using this model, as I was
>earlier, of taking a player out and substitute a replacement player, there are
>two points of caveat:
>
>1.	DON'T use the "average" given in Baseball Weekly, which assumes the
>	player plays 162 games.  You have to scale down to the player's actual
>	playing time.
>
>2.	Even that undervalues a good player (particular one with a good OBP).
>	A good player will get himself and his teammates more plate
>	appearances, and therefore more runs.  Just taking his stats out and
>	inserting average stats will then undervalue him somewhat.  (I am not
>	sure how much, though.)

Are you saying that MLV undervalues OBP because it doesn't change the number
of plate appearnces for the team?  Sounds plausible.  Any other reasons?

When I do my study replacing each player from his team, I will assume that
the substitute AND the team will get a different number of plate appearances
in accordance with the substitutes different OBP.  I will share how I derived
this difference (once I figure out how to do it!).

>Not so fast.  I still think that MLV undervalues good hitters, especially ones
>who walk a lot and/or have a high OBP.  RC/Out might *overvalue* those players,
>but I don't think the books are closed on this one yet.

I agree.  I'm not *totally* convinced.  The next study will shed more light.

Josh Rosenbluth (attmail!jrosenbluth)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball