HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Sitting on the fence (was Re: Pentacles/Consorts)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:29:30 GMT

In article <716546298.F00006@blkcat.UUCP> Craig.Vaughan@p365.f342.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Vaughan) writes:
>In a recent missive, Ciaran Benson writes:
>  CB> 
>  CB> The idea of defending this kind of social setting -- indeed,
>  CB> institutionalizing it through your incorporation, really doesn't sound
>  CB> like much fun for a fair number of your members.
>  CB> 
>  CB> I sincerely doubt that I'd have much fun in such a setting, especially
>  CB> since I've gotten fairly used to communities where people participate
>  CB> based on their abilities and desire, rather than their gender.
>
>While this may appear unfair to a certain segment of Society members, what about
>that part of the Society that feel that having same sex rulers is disruptive to
>the medieval feeling at events, etc? When one joins a *private* social
>organization one should expect to play the rules of the games as the
>organization has defined them  . . .

At the considerable risk of dragging real-world sociopolitics back in
here . . .

*Are* we a 'private organization' within this meaning?  We admit all
comers as members--though we have a costuming requirement at events.
We are legally recognized--and granted certain tax advantages for what
we do.

This subject has been much on my mind for batter than the past year.
How *do* you define a 'private organization', and subject to
'rpomoting the common welfare', to what extent are private
organizations permitted to violate public policy?  Lest you think this
is borrowing trouble, I would like to point out that the defense
raised by the Boy Scouts of America for maintaining their membeship
restrictions (no gays, no atheists, no women) is by wrapping
themselves in a mantle of privacy.

I would submit that private and public in organization status is not a
binary choice, but rather there are shadings and degrees along a
continuum.

So long as the SCA maintains it's not-for-profit status, I think it is
at least semi-public in nature.  If we want to be private, we should
change the tax status of the corporation.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homoerotic poetry
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:25:04 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

According to the September Pikestaff, the A&S issue deadline
is October 5.  Send email to Ellisif Flakkari mjc@nl.cs.cmu.edu

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Pentacles
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:25:54 GMT

In article <BuBrJy.816@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
> Branwen mentioned a prohibition in the West on fighting while carrying
> stones, charms or herbs of virtue.
> 
> So, Branwen, where can I get these "herbs of virtue?"  If I go on down to
> Berkeley, and buy some "herbs of virtue" in People's Park, can I bring it
> into Canada, or will the Canada Customs throw me in jail? 

Depends on which virtue you're after.  I understand that pennyroyal is
quite good at repelling fleas, for instance.  Seems like not having
fleas might be considered a virtue to anyone close to you.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: sussman@socrates.umd.edu (Jeff Sussman)
Subject: Re: Town Battle at the War
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:44:20 GMT

In article <Bu8B1z.LCM@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>
>How about armouring the marshals who are in the thick of things?
>
>Aryk

The marshals most important defense is identification.  Putting armor on the
marshals will mean that a given blow will hurt less but that they will get
hit much more often.

Richard
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Multiple titles (was Edward Zifran of Gendy)
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:07:49 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Corun MacAnndra writes:
> Arval writes:
> >At the risk of sounding unbearably stuffy, I'd like to point out that
> >stringing multiple titles before a name...
> >
> >> Viscount Viscount Viscount Viscount Sir Sir Master Master Edward, 
                        [ stuff deleted ]
> >The correct usage is one title at a time, as appropriate.
> 
> I have the utmost respect. Given that I got the string from Ed, the fact
> that I would use it in a public forum as a jest he shares, is a measure of
> the respect I hold for the man himself. I am proud to know him and be counted
> among his friends, and would be so regardless of his place in the Society.

I'm still curious, _two_ knightings??  Story please?  Inquiring minds want 
to know.  ;-) ;-) ;-) 
                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

THE LAST THREE WINNERS OF AETHELMEARC CORONET TOURNEY HAVE BEEN...
_A_riel       fighting for the wife of Sir Raimund  of Rhydderich Hael
_B_ear        fighting for the wife of Sir Ogami    of Rhydderich Hael
_C_hristopher fighting for the wife of Sir Carthalo of Rhydderich Hael
  "Hello? Sir Bedawyr? This is _D_agonell.  If you're not fighting for your
   wife Lena in the next Coronet Tourney, I have a proposition for you ..."
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Using period words to refer to mundanities
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 92 16:41:41 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Lothar wrote:
>
>    As a general rule, I like to use words that ignore or conceal an
> item's modern origins, rather than coming up with a cutesy term that
> points out the fact that it is strange and that I am trying to hide the
> fact. (Ex. wagon instead of dragon for car, garderobe instead of
> portacastle for nasty chemical toilet at Pennsic).

Anyone have any other examples of this type of thing that they like to
use?  I myself prefer to use period words (I like "boggard" instead of 
port-a-john, myself), and am always on the lookout for others...

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Town Battle at the War
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:13:10 GMT

In article <715836061.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:

>How about constructing towers, like unto the towers that lifeguards 
> use?  What with structures already being part of the battle, one 
> more should not create a problem.

How about armouring the marshals who are in the thick of things?

Aryk
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Demographics
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:07:30

 WH> Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
 WH> I have severe reservations about the demographic issue, however.
 WH> Students are probably (proportionately) over-represented on the
 WH> Rialto.  I don't think--and I have no data to back that thought--that
 WH> the student population within the SCA is all that large a percentage.
 WH> I would be surprised if it's as high as 10 percent--and I don't
 WH> consider that a large, let alone VERY large--percentage.
*I* think that a large percentage of SCA members *were* college students 
 when they joined.  But for many of us, that was long enough ago and far 
 away.  Here in the Steppes, our college-age population is fairly small 
      I have this theory on how the location of a college makes a 
 difference in the local group.  Here in Dallas, the local colleges are 
 *generally* attended by "stay-at-homes" -- i.e., there's not much 
 travelling.  My guess is that the type who has more "derring-do" has 
 managed to convince the parental units to *send* them to college, thus 
 the bigger draw in towns where the students don't live at home.  Also, 
 many 
     "college towns" are dominated by the college -- so the college 
 students outweigh the post-grads.   Commentary, anyone?
        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd
             Steppes, Ansteorra  (started in the Outlands....)

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Prince of Thieves wrongos
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:56:00 GMT

In article <199209092313.AA15413@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg") writes:

>What book is that? Robin Hood is a medieval, legendary figure who
>appears in ballads from the 14th century and on. There *is* no
>"original book". The legend has been used by many different authors.

I beg to differ slightly.  The "original book" of Robin Hood is, of course,
Howard Pyle's retelling of the stories.  Based largely on Scott's view of
the Robster, this book shaped much of what we think about Robin Hood.

>There are no rigid borders between genres, but they serve a useful
>purpose in classifying books. I used them to clarify my opinion
>that the RH:PoT movie is not set in anything like Tolkiens Middle-
>Earth or Pratchetts Diskworld, but in 12th century England.

It is problematical to say that the Robin Hood stories are set in 12th
century England.  While Pyle and Scott certainly placed the Robmeister
there, many scholars who think about these things place Robin in the
reigns of the first three Edwards.

It is a queer 12th century that has friars, for example.

And I accept a share of the blame for continuing this thread.  It may not
be topical -- perhaps it could be described as ... anachronistic.

Aryk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: An Tir Crown Tourney
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:13:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.194000.14357@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:

>I would sing you the ballad of the first Aethelmearc Coronet Tourney, held
>in the midst of Hurricane Hugo, but I can't: I never made it to the event.
>We we're about a third of the way there, somewhere in the Poconos, when the
>wind came up and the rain came down and the car turned around and went home
>to bed.

I was there, so here's a ballad:

By gosh it was cold
By gosh it was cold
Good thing there was that big fireplace inside, so's we could warm our back-
	sides.
Good thing Longship Traders was there, so we could shop while warming our
	backsides.
I guess there was some fighting, but Haakon lost, so who cares?
Then we went back to Michaele's house and drank her beer.

Here ends the ballad.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Same Sex Consorts
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:39:02 GMT

Hal Ravn wrote:
  Only *one* current Board member is from California--and he isn't
  terribly active.  (Though I grant everyone that he's been around the
  Society a *long* time . . .)

Two.  Duke Siefried von Hoflichkeith, and Viscountess Caitriona ne Bhrian.
      Walnut Creek, CA                    Stanton, CA

	Tibor (pedant and worse)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kevin@isi.COM (Kevin Davis Connery)
Subject: Baldrics (WAS: Re: safety for marshals)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 16:12:27 GMT

Dagonell, who probably _does_ know better, wrote:

> BATTLE RULES FOR STICK JOCKS (EK VERSION)
> ----------------------------
> 1.) If it's wearing a baldric, do what it tells you.
> 	Serious effort has been made to follow the KISS rule (Keep It 
> Simple, Stupid!)  Marshalls wear black, water-bearers blue, heralds green, 
> chirurgeons red.  Yellow, white and purple are still unused.  And I think 
> one of the first two would be better than safety orange.  Want lots of 
> cheap white? Go to Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc.  and pick-up a few 
> dozen used bedsheets.

Another source of white -- often already cut and made into baldrics --
are those Masters of Arms, who, oddly enough, are often on the field
along with the rest of the fighters. (I can see a Caidan making that
mistake; Dagonell, shame on you! <g>)

> 2.) If it has an _open-face_ helmet, tell it it's dead.

And if it's a marshall, say 'oops', and NOBODY IS HURT. Sounds OK to me.

> 3.) If it has a _closed-face_ helm, hit it. 

...one presumes after whatever rules for engagement have been
established. (Lines count. But pipple _near_ a combat line without
'fighter's helmets' don't. [Dagonell statements didn't imply otherwise;
I just wanted to make sure.])

Keradwc
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Keradwc an Cai     |       Adfui, Feci        |  In the Mists of the West |
 |--------------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|
 | Kevin Connery      | Quality must be designed |   Speaking FROM, not FOR: |
 |                    | into software; it cannot |   Integrated Systems, Inc |
 | kconnery@isi.com   | be patched on afterwards |           Santa Clara, CA |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: brandon@husc10.harvard.edu (Joshua "y-p" Brandon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pentacles (was Re: consort gender)
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:35:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep9.143508.15497
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


Nicholas writes:

>Unfair?  Hardly.  The College of Arms does not reject devices with 
>religious elements because they are religious, or because of they 
>are of any particular religion.  It does not reject devices that 
>contain *period* religous symbols, provided those devices otherwise 
>meet all of the College's rules for heraldic devices which apply to
>religous and nonreligous symbols alike. Note the word "period."  If
>you want to create a nonperiod devise, with pentacles or dollar signs
>or thermos bottles as the main charge, and display it, you are certainly 
>welcome to do so -- but not within the context of a group that recreates 
>a time and place where such things did not exist.  I don't think that
>is unreasonable.

I feel obliged to point out that there have been some apparent period
examples of pentacles in heraldry discussed on the Heraldic mailing list,
including the attributed arms of Sir Gawain (I think --- one of the round
table knights).  Also a Swedish example or two, if I remember.  They are
uncommon, but so are some other things we register.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that we equate pentacles
with swastikas (the presence of which would make me feel *distinctly*
uncomfortable, no matter how period they are).  And I agree that although
this is an extremely small difference between the treatment of pagans and
others, it can make people feel very slighted.  So perhaps a letter
campaign to the Laurel King of Arms or the BOD is in order.  If a majority
of the people in the Society believe that allowing more recognition of a
religious symbol is more important that the adverse publicity it could
generate, then the policy certainly should be re-considered.  But until
that is demonstrated, all we are doing is calling each other names.

P.S.  It also seems that the pentacle was considered a *Christian*
religious symbol in part of the Middle Ages, representing five virtues or
something like that, hence Gawain's arms.  I don't know whether the symbol
was co-opted from an earlier religion, or what....

Para servir a ustedes,

	Simon Santiago de Cordoba		Joshua Brandon
	Duncharloch, Carolingia, EK		brandon@husc.harvard.edu
YAZ/mycroft
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Re: History vs. dreams (Was: consort gender)
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 20:35:33 GMT
Reply-To: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)

In article <1992Sep9.154503.19336@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep9.134414.23156@access.digex.com> thom@access.digex.com (The
|> Elf-Lad) writes:
|> >
|> >Now, I find it interesting that Michelangelo and Jean d'Arc are
|> >brought up, by another poster, in support of a "dream" that many
|> >would like to see exclude gay people and pagans.
|> 
|> Is there a movement to exclude gays & pagans?
|> -
|> Otto

Dear Gentles,

I think things may be getting out of hand here. We must remember that
this forum is to express ideas not policy. If you want to know why that
corpora expressly says that the reigning royalty be of opposite gender,
ask your local BOD member. If you want to know why you cannot registar
a swastika (sp?) or pentacle, ask your local BOD member. They are the
only people that can give you an official answers. Any response posted
here is just the interpretation of the good people here of what corpora
says and completely unofficial.

In my most humble opinion, the SCA is the most open place I have seen
to express ideas and lifestyles. I have not in my mere 3 years of being
involved heard any discrimantory remarks against anyone in the SCA by
another in the SCA. I have never felt a group of people who are as open
as caring as the people of the SCA.

I feel as if a dead horse is being beaten here. If there are gentles
against these current corpora rulings, then it is your obligation to
try and have it changed by talking to corpora.

In Service,

Euriol of Lothian
From: rad@genco.bungi.com (Bob Daniel)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: 4 triangles of equal size out of 6 straws of equal length.
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:06:05 GMT
Organization: Gentry & Assoc. Excelsior Springs, Mo.



Last time I was at a bar in San Francisco, I was playing straw games with
the bartender.  She had one that took me about 10 minutes to solve (with a
couple beers in me :-).  She has tried it on atleast 100 people and said
that only one person other than myself has gotten it.  Judging from the
patrons of the bar, I didn't get the feeling that many there would give
it much effort.  Nevertheless, it might make a great addition to
Mensan testing.

With 6 straws of equal length, make 4 triangles of equal size (in area).


Hint:  It would be difficult to represent the solution graphically in
an ascii reply.  It can be easily explained, however.

Bob Daniel
rad@genco.bungi.com
From: rad@genco.bungi.com (Bob Daniel)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: 4 triangles of equal size out of 6 straws of equal length.
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:15:29 GMT
Reply-To: rad@genco.bungi.com (Bob Daniel)
Organization: Gentry & Assoc. Excelsior Springs, MO

In article <Sep.10.22.22.05.1992.11123@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:

>Tetrahedron.

Correct!  It's easier to solve this without straws in front of you than
playing with 6 straws. :-)  Those I've shown this to (using straws) has
attempted to solve it in two dimensions.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: 4 triangles of equal size out of 6 straws of equal length.
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:38:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: claris.15151

In article <39@genco.bungi.com>, rad@genco.bungi.com (Bob Daniel) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I was at a bar in San Francisco, I was playing straw games with
> the bartender.  She had one that took me about 10 minutes to solve (with a
> couple beers in me :-).  She has tried it on atleast 100 people and said
> that only one person other than myself has gotten it.  Judging from the
> patrons of the bar, I didn't get the feeling that many there would give
> it much effort.  Nevertheless, it might make a great addition to
> Mensan testing.
> 
> With 6 straws of equal length, make 4 triangles of equal size (in area).

Simple:  Make a pyramid.  Three straws for the base, and one straw from each
vertex of the base to the top vertex.
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Dot Puzzle (SPOILERS)
Date: 5 Sep 92 09:03:44 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Sep4.214412.22946@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, Johnson writes:

> Draw 9 dots in a square 3x3 grid on a piece of paper, i.e.,

> ...
> ...
> ...

> Now try connecting the dots with:

> 3 lines (here it starts to get hard)

These are dots, not points, so they have size.  Therefore three
connected zigzagging lines which are long enough can be made to
pass through the dots.

> 2 lines

I don't see a natural way to do this, off hand.

> 1 line

Use a very thick marker.  Or assuming the universe is closed and
finite you could arrange it such that one line (a very, very long
line, that is) passes through all of the dots.

It can also be done in 0 lines, if we assume the paper is 2-dimensional
and the dots are points.  Just fold.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

"In a study of schoolboys, an educator discovered a correlation between size
 of feet and quality of handwriting.  The boys with the larger feet were,
 on the average, older."        Wallis & Roberts, _The Nature of Statistics_
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: simple puzzle
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:42:21 GMT

cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>So the minimum number of weighings within which the odd coin &
>the nature of it's oddity CAN be found is THREE, PROVIDED you're
>lucky. Otherwise, you'll need FOUR tries.

You can do it in MAX 3 trials in all cases. Clue: not all balls need be
placed in pans in trial 1.

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kaufman@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ken Kaufman)
Subject: Re: An even SHORTER Puzzle
Summary: I will not buy this tobacconist.  It is scratched.
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:02:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.131301.8584@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>>On a day that he finds 36 cigarette butts, how many cigarettes will
>>he get to smoke?
 
>>Make any "reasonable" :-) assumptions. This is fairly straightforward.
>>Of course, the answer is NOT 6. 

>7

>(plus 1/6 towards his 8th)
                       ^^^
                       actually his 13th when you consider what he'll
                       have to go through to get there.

... and 1/36 toward a later smoke, and 1/216 toward another ...

In fact, if we credit the butts as possibilities for future recursive
recycling, we can easily sum the infinite series (6 + 1 + 1/6 + 1/36 + ...)
and see that his supply of 36 butts can ultimately supply him with
precisely 7.2 smokes.

==Ken Kaufman (kaufman@gmuvax2.gmu.edu)