From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: New Topic
Date: 17 Dec 92 07:36:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec17.073636.20401
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <1992Dec14.195258.5951@panix.com> mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa) writes:
>The topic was what do you think of guys who go abroad and come home with
>white women.
There have been many (firey, nasty) discussions of the topic of inter"racial"
marriages in soc.culture.african.american over the last few years. I do not
know how applicable these are to s.c.a since Americans of African descent
are IMO Americans with dark skin. That is, their culture, upbringing, social
reflexes and the rest have nothing to do with Africa but with North America.
Let me say at the outset that I am absolutely in favor of people marrying
whomever they want to. The concept of "race" is biologically meaningless and
itself a racist rationalisation for colonialism (cf. Ashley Montague and
others). I am, however, sensitive to the concerns of intercultural 
relationships. Often one or both partners does not understand quite how the
other thinks and does not know how to treat him/her properly.

>-Do these marriages contribute to, or destroy the African family and society.

>-Are the men who marry these women mentally colonised, seeking to have the
>white man's possesions
I wouldn't quite say it that way, but there may be a little truth to this.
In many cases when a nation is conquered there is a tendency on the part of
the conquered to adopt some of the values and fashions of the conquerers. To
try to be like them. On the other hand if people are of an age and station
to be looking for a spouse and people of a different ethnic background are
around there are some who will by statistical necessity find somone suitable
from that other background. This has been quite a problem for Jews in North
America and Europe. Their children go to schools which are not primarily
Jewish and meet (and marry) non-Jewish men and women.


>-Does the African man (Not all but some) promote these values among the
>society by equating beauty with lighter skin. 
>-Would the above attitude be the cause so many skin lightening products
>(like AMBI) are sold on the continent because the women are trying to look
>"more beautiful" in the mens eyes.
Yeah, I would have to say so. [Here starts a series of comments by Tiel,
Todd's wife
I grew up as an expatriate in Tanzania. While I am not "white" by N.
American standards, I am light-skinned enough to have been regarded as
"white" by the people among whom I grew up. I found that both men and
women in Tanzania tended to regard lighter-skinned people as more
attractive. This didn't always extend to Europeans, but often did. I can
see how a person (male or female) who already had such a preference might,
in this country, prefer white people over Black or African people.

With regard to skin lightening products, have you noticed that Black
models in American magazines (both male and female) are extremely
light skinned and often have features more like those of Europeans?
This society definitely perpetuates the attitude that light skinned
people are more attractive.]
N.B. So do Asian cultures.

>-Why is it when you see a brother with a white woman, she is usually
>mediocre.  Yet when you see a white man with a sister she is FIIINNNEEEE!!
Maybe you just don't like the way white women look. De gustibus non
disputandem est...

>-Since this is not a colour blind world and no concrete steps are seeming
>to be taken to make it one, is rejection of white women cultural
>self-preservation.
It is not a color blind world. However, the best step anyone can take to
make it one is to support interracial marriages. In a world where you
can't be a racist without biting your own tail racism doesn't make a
whole lot of sense. Likewise, if you reject a potential wife strictly
on the basis of color you are contributing to the problem and maybe passing
up a wonderful marriage.

>The women claimed there were not enough good men to go around.  The men
>said the women were in hiding or taken.  Some men claimed it was not okay
>to date or marry, but having a fling was okay.  This infuriated the women
>to no end.
All women and all men say this regardless of race, culture, or anything else.
"All the good ones are taken" is a refrain I have heard from Irish, Korean,
Jewish, WASP, African, etc. people both men and women. I can understand why
the women would be infuriated by the third sentence. How about "African men
can be fun for weekend or so, but God, I'd never _marry_ one." Doesn't
that make you feel good?

>The some of the women claimed they were treated better by these guys than
>some of the Africans had treated them.
What can I say, jerks come in every color. Maybe they liked Western attitudes
towards women. Maybe they find white men more attractive for the same reason
some African men find white women attractive.

>The guys wanted to know why when a brother had a white woman across his
>arm they said "look at that cute guy with that ugly woman....." Yet before
>he went out with that woman he was not cute.
You know the saying "The grass is always greener on the other side of the
fence"? I've noticed that women of every color often find men more
attractive when they are no longer available. Don't ask me why. Come to
think it, I've found some women looked cuter once they were involved
with someone else [What has that guy got I don't !?]

Basically, what seems to be unique is that you have a small group of 
African men who come to this continent to study. In an academic setting
they don't have much access to Black, let alone African women. The women
they tend to meet are mostly white. The men are young and far away from the
family and community that would steer them towards a more traditional choice
of woman.

Is this bad for African society and family? I don't think it makes a whole
lot of difference. These men represent a very small fraction of African men.
They tend to work at jobs in the cities where people are more cosmopolitan
anyway.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."