HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:42:38
From: Eberhard von Kitzing - MPImF - Heidelberg - FRG <mpimfhd!vkitzing@oneworld.wa.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: <none>
Reply-To: vkitzing@germany.eu.net
Subject: Re: Question about Different Religions
Distribution: world

David E. Barrett, Honolulu, Hawaii (DB) posted on s.r.b:

DB> Common view of Hinduism is that it is polytheistic and yet the 
DB> Baha'is claim that all religions come from one God.  

Simply that the same name is used in different cultures does not mean
that the same thing is designated.  The Hinduism also know a supreme
God upon which all other Gods and Godnesses are are dependent.  I
would relate these minor Gods to the Angels in Christianity and Islam
and to the "Names and Attributes of God" in the Baha'i-Faith.

DB> How do Bahai's know ...  that alot of the other religions have 
DB> corrupted themselves from their original form contrary to what each 
DB> religion today is professing (Incarnation,  reincarnation and 
DB> absolutism)?  

It is known from history that all the religions have changed over
time.  Especially for the older Religions the authenticity of their
souces is not clear.  If one considers all the evil done in the name
of religion one has two choices: (1) the religion itself is evil or
(2) it has be corrupted by human beings.

DB> How do Bahai's know their claim to be true ...

This is a fundamental question not only for every religion, but for
everything with believe to be true.  It is to a large extent our
personal choice.  We have to decide what we are willing to accept and
what to reject.

------------------------------------------------------------

Eberhard von Kitzing
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Medizische Forschung
Jahnstr. 29, D6900 Heidelberg, FRG

FAX : +49-6221-486 459  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-486 467  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-385 129  (home)

email: vkitzing%mpimfhd.uucp@Germany.EU.net  or  vkitzing@mpimfhd.uucp
From: nihong@oregon.uoregon.edu (Hong Ni)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: My Perception of Baha'i Faith
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:29:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43919
Organization: University of Oregon

I met a group of young people teaching Baha'i Faith this summer.  From
then on I started to explore this faith.  It appears to be, at least
on the surface, socially progressive, religiously tolerant, and
musically beautiful.  The nature of this faith is more like a
philosophy rather than a religion, given its many practical
approaches, such as "harmony with science" and open-endedness.  Baha'i
people are charming, but they are still human, and are not free from
human flaws, including prejudices and biases.  Baha'i Faith is a
relatively new religion, if it IS a religion, and therefore the
historical evidence (or "God's manifestation", in Baha'i words) of the
late last century regarding the beginning of this faith and its
immediate aftermath tend to be more convincing than other religions.
However, many aspects of this faith remain to be deepened.

I love the young Baha'i people, and I enjoy the music.
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:47:25
Distribution: world
From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: University of Chicago
Subject: Re: Question about Different Religions

Arindam Ghosh (mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU) writes:

 > First we do not recognize Hinduism with all its practices; 
 > we recognize Krishna as a prophet.

Personally, I do *not* recognize most rays ever emitted by the Sun,
except of course those that so conveniently happened to warm me, plus
may be a few others. Since the entire range of Solar phenomenon has 
been geared towards winning my recognition, I can see how greatly 
diminished the Sun Itself and those other light-rays that chanced 
upon other peoples must be. :-)
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:45:59
Distribution: world
From: djull@Athena.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: <none>
Subject: From the Baha'i Writings

Is there any Remover of difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God! 
He is God! All are His servants, and all abide by His bidding!

The Bab
--
David Jull
djull@athena.mit.edu
From: Steven.Kolins@lambada.oit.unc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Unity of Religions and God's U-turns (was: Questions about Manifestations of God)
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:32:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43918
Organization: -

About comparing the religions of God.  Baha'u'llah has not, to my
knowledge, done a searching comparison and reconstruction of older
religions to make it obvious that they are the truth, (though he did
reveal a book claiming to be the essense of all religions, and another
the essense of the goal of all religions.)  The closest would be the
Book of Certitude - which addresses specifically Islam and the Faith
of the Bab, and a little of Christianity as well.  There is a general
sense of the fortelling of His own religion, but it was revealed
before He declared His own Faith.

However as a person i think there are a few things to look at.  For
example Christianity and Buddhism...  Let's be careful - Christianity
offers multiple ways of interpriting Jesus' role, and Buddhism does
the same (Mahayana and Hinayana (sp?) are what i am thinking of.  One
does propose a personal relationship with Buddha does it not?  Not
that this is correct, and the nihilistic picture is wrong, just too
simple to cover Buddhism's beleifs.)

As for Hinduisms multiplicity of "gods" - Christianity has a few names
as well for God.  I beleive that Hinduism does integrate their
pantheon towards Something called Brahman (not Brahma), which is
beyond all understanding.  This fits the Baha'i Faith perfectly -
attributes of God (and are to say they have no function of Their own?
Are not Prophets the Words of God?  Are not the Attibutes praised?)

To really step into the path of speculation i beleive there is a
reconsiliation between the teachings of the [Baha'i] Faith and
Hinduism without undermining either.  However i'm not sure this level
of speculation is for this forum.  Essentially what i understand the
Faith's claim is that the individuality of a person does not repeat
itself in creation.  "The Baha'is beleive in the attributes and
qualties, but maintain that the essence of the reality of things
cannot return." {Lights of Guidance p. 536}  I point to the words used
- essense and individuality vs identity (identity is a compound thing
- how much of ones identity is bound up simply in ones appearence for
example.)  As for people remembering past lives...well contact me
directly for my views....

God is free to do as He pleases, but to date we beleive He has been
consistent, and promises to stay so (this is the Covenant of God along
one point of view.)  However there may be a problem with what we
attach to consistency.  For example - Prophets appear to be only male
through history.  If the next one were female, we might have some
learning to do.  That would be our problem with God's consistency, not
His inconsistency.

thanks
Steven
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: xabaea@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: Universal house of Justice Email address???
Organization: University of South Australia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:16:43 GMT


A friend of mine, called Vahid Chittleborough from Adelaide, recently left to do
16 months service in Haifa (? I don't know how to spell it..) as a security
guard at the "Universal house of Justice".

I'd like to be able to communicate with him via e-mail, so does the U.H.O.J.
have an e-mail address or the like, preferably his own account?

Please use REPLY rather than FOLLOWUP.

Say hello to him from me if your in the area. My name is Graham, he'll know...

Thanx.

Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: Terry Maton - Construction Engineering Assistant <MATON@pplant.usask.ca>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: From the Baha'i Writings
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:03:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43917
Organization: -

O MY FRIEND IN WORD!

Ponder awhile.  Hast thou ever heard that friend
and foe should abide in one heart?  Cast out then
the stranger, that the Friend may enter His home.

The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah, #26 from the Persian

Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: djull@Athena.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: From the Baha'i Writings
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:39:20 GMT
Organization: -

Who, contemplating the helplessness, the fears and miseries of humanity
in this day, can any longer question the necessity for a fresh
revelation of the quickening power of God's redemptive love and
guidance?  Who, witnessing on one hand the stupendous advance achieved
in the realm of human knowledge, of power, of skill and inventiveness,
and viewing on the other the unprecedented character of the sufferings
that afflict, and the dangers that beset, present day society, can be so
blind as to doubt that the hour has at last struck for the advent of a
new Revelation, for a re-statement of the Divine Purpose, and for the
consequent revival of those spiritual forces that have, at fixed
intervals, rehabilitated the fortunes of human society?

Shoghi Effendi,
quoted in Balyuzi, _Baha'u'llah - The King of Glory_ (Oxford, George
Ronald, 1991) p. v

--
David Jull
djull@athena.mit.edu
From: ashkon_k@apollo.hp.com
Subject: Reading for Thursday, October 15, 1992
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:22:22 GMT



        "This is a Tablet sent down by the All-Merciful from the
     Kingdom of utterance unto all that dwell on earth.  Happy is
     the man who hearkeneth and heedeth and woe betide him who
     hath erred and doubted.  This is the Day that hath been
     illumined by the effulgent light of the Countenance of God -
     the Day when the Tongue of Grandeur is calling aloud:
     The Kingdom is God's, the Lord of the Day of Resurrection.
         Thy name hath been mentioned in Our Presence and We have
     deigned to reveal for thee that which the tongue of no one
     among the peoples of the world can recount.  Rejoice with
     exceeding joy inasmuch as thou hast been remembered in the
     Most Great Prison and the Countenance of the Ancient of Days
     hath turned towards thee from this exalted habitation.
         We have truly revealed the signs, demonstrated the
     irrefutable testimonies and have summoned all men unto the
     straight Path.  Among the people there are those who have
     turned away and repudiated the truth, others have pronounced
     judgement against Us without any proof or evidence.  The
     first to turn away from Us have been the world's spiritual
     leaders in this age - they that call upon Us in the daytime
     and in the night season and mention My Name while resting on
     their lofty thrones.  However, when I revealed Myself unto
     men they rose against Me in such wise that even the stones
     groaned and lamented bitterly.
         Great is thy blessedness inasmuch as thou hast hearkened
     unto His Voice, set thy face towards Him and heeded the Call
     of thy Lord when He came invested with invincible power and
     sovereignty."
     
         -Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p.253
From: shams@sun18.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Maitham Shams)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Talk on: Bosnia, the Muslim Prespective
Keywords: Talk, Bosnia, Zafar Bangash, Waterloo
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:20:41 GMT
Followup-To: soc.religion.islam
Organization: University of Waterloo
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>									<>
<>			   University of Waterloo			<>
<>			Muslims Students Association			<>
<>			 	 ( M S A )				<>
<>									<>
<>======================================================================<>
<>									<>
<>	Presents:	BOSNIA, THE MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE			<>
<>									<>
<>	By:		ZAFAR  BANGASH,					<>
<>			Editor in Chief of the 				<>
<>			"Crescent International" Biweekly		<>
<>									<>
<>	DATE:	Thursday October 15th					<>
<>	TIME:	7:30 p.m.						<>
<>	PLACE:	Rm. 1302, Davis Center, U of W				<>
<>									<>
<>======================================================================<>
<>									<>
<>			All Are Welcome					<>
<>									<>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

	Muslim Students Association,
	University of Waterloo
From: ys3359@csc.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Shura (was:  Are We Having Fun, Yet...?)
Keywords: Shura, Shariat
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:05:17 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Albany

In article <1bcvgpINNm9b@aludra.usc.edu> jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) writes:
>In article <718753660@lear.cs.duke.edu> ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes:
>
>>I doubt whether we have to dress like them, as traditionalist Muslims
>>insist, as the Arabs of the 7. century were wearing that kind of
>>dresses - whether believer or unbeliever. 
>
>I don't believe it's required by the Shariat, but maybe you
>should ask yourself what distinguishes you from the Kuffar....

I would hope there is more distinguishing me than mere superficialities
such as clothing.  The merit of a person is based on actions not images.
Arguments against Western clothing as opposed to clothing of seventh
century Arabs I believe stem more from resentment of colonization and 
fear of losing cultural identity than any truly Islamic viewpoints.

Yasmin

**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *                                    *
*                                   *          Clinton/Gore '92          *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *                                    *
*                                   *                                    *
**************************************************************************
From: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (exuasqa)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Dogs & Islam
Date: 10 Oct 92 20:52:31 GMT
Reply-To: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article 27786@life.ai.mit.edu, ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes:
>
>In article <26876@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:
>
>   Salam alekum.
>
>   In some corner of Pakistan, there is a tradition that dogs are haram.
>   I am interested in knowing the exact Hadith which support this.  Are
>   there any Hadith which support this, or denouce this?
>
>   I would be interested in any information.
>
>   Salam Alekum,
>   Basalat Ali Raja.
>
>I can't give you information that all dogs are so, but there is at
>least one hadith which says indirectly that SOME are. It is in Sunen-i
>Tirmidhi and orders that black dogs should be killed as they are
>"devils", a word used for bad behaviour. (It is used for some sort of
>camels also).  However, I do not know whether this was ordered, and
>may be, it was only for a timeperiod in Medina so.
>--

I was told by a brother who came across this Hadith that not all black dogs
are so, only those who are fully dark-black in color, also those dogs have
red eyes.  But in general Dogs are not haram in Islam, they are good animals
that could be useful, hunting, guarding, cattles..etc.  The only thing is
that they are not suppose to enter inside the house of muslims, because
the Angles don't enter a house that has a dog inside.  Maybe you all know
the Hadith in which a thirsty man-in the desert- found a well of water, he
went down the well to drink, as he was coming up he found a dog breathing
heavily-was very thirsty- so the man filled his shoe with water and let the
dog drink out of it, what was the reward of that man?; the dog thanked Allah(God)
for that man and what he is done for him, and asked Allah to reward him, his
reward was that he will enter paradise in the here-after.

Dogs are OK, the only thing is what I mentioned above and one must not 
allow it to lick him/her, or must not touch by anymeans the liquid that 
comes out of its mouth, this liquid shoud not also touch the persons 
cloth, if so happen he needs to wash it.
Islam is religion of ease, one could say what about those guide-dogs used
for blinds, Islam does not say that those dogs are haram, especially if the
person has no human to guide him!.  Allah knows Best.

I hope this covers it.  If I made a mistake in the above then its because of my
lack of knowledge.  Allah is All knowing and he knows best.  

Muslim.
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: Dogs & Islam
Date: 7 Oct 1992 04:51 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
Reply-To: WRH7@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: iago.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


This may lead to yet another category, but I shall continue in the "dogs"
line.  While dogs may be unclean, I've been lead to believe that cats are
NOT.  At one time someone quoted a hadith or perhaps incident in the
Prophet's (PBUH) life in which he allowed a cat to remain in his lap.  Which
led to a question of what was the name of this cat, if indeed it belonged
to the Prophet?


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Wayne R. Husted                                                    |
| Religious Studies Program      `We are there where even            |
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| Bitnet:    WRH7@PSUVM                                              |
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From: murtza@andromeda.rutgers.edu (SANDMAN)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: QUESTION ?
Date: 10 Oct 92 20:59:00 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE COULD HELP ME WITH THIS QUESTION.

IF YOU SHAVE YOUR BEARD DO YOU GET 'GUNA' FOR THAT ?

I'LL BE WATING FOR AN ANSWER.

KHUDA HAFIZ

SHAMOUN MURTZA

-- 
*DEATH TO THE 'DUSHAMNS' OF PAKISTAN		* SHAMOUN MURZTA              *
*WHO SAYS THAT I AIN'T RIGHT . . . .		* RUTGERS UNIVERSITY	      *
*LIFE IS FOR MY OWN TO LIVE MY OWN WAY		* PH: (201) 997-2685          *
*				-METALLICA     	* PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.	      *
From: acsormd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Randall Desmond)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Science and Thought
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


	Assalam mu'alaikum...

	It seems that many people today are relying on science as
	a _proof_ of their faith(s).

	Whatever happened to pure thoughts about creation and
	how awesome it is without the use of discrete measurements?

	- Your brother in Islam
From: U36167%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Looking for Qu'ran on computer file
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:13:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


About a year ago, my friend had mentioned that she had a copy of the Qu'ran on
her CMS account and was looking for a way to print it.  Therefore, I know there
is an electronic copy of the Qu'ran available some where and I would like to
get a hold of it.  Can any one help me with this? I would greatly appreciate
it. Thank you.
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Hijab in Islam
Date: 7 Oct 1992 05:04 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
Reply-To: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
NNTP-Posting-Host: iago.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


in Article: 6814 of soc.culture.arabic jamshid@socrates.ucsf.edu (J. Naghizadeh)writes:


-------Begin Quote----------
As I said, to my (incomplete) knowledge, stoning is not mentioned in
Koran. I would like to see the exact Soureh and Verse reference which
refers to stoning in Koran, if you disagree with me.

in Soureh Noor which refers to covering the "BREAST" and not the "HAIR".
This type of "hijab" is no different from the practice in most of the
world. If you have any other Ayah in Koron which refers to 'hijab"
please produce it here.
-------End Quote------------

Jamshid,

If you return to any book that deals with the ISlamic principles of
deriving laws, you will see that Muslims rely on Quran as their primary
source. BUT they also rely on the SUNNAH of the prophet (PBUH).

Denying a fact based only on its nonexistence in Quran is ver dangerous.

I assume you are a Muslim. Then you pray. Tell me can you change the
number of Rakaa's (bowing) in your Zuhr prayer from four, say to five or
three ?
The answer is obviously NO
(if your answer is YES then I think we should return to the very basics
of Islam).

Then, can you provide me with any verse in the Quran that says that Zuhr
prayer must be four Rakaa's ? Clearly NO. Because Quran stresses in many
places the importance of Prayer but Left it to the Prophet (PBUH) and
his sunnah to explain how this salat must be performed.
This is the same as for hijab, the Quran mentions in many Surahs that
women must wear appropriate hijab. The details of this hijab are to be
found in the seerah of the prophet (PBUH) and what he (PBUH) ordered
Muslim women to wear. Among those muslim womwen were his daughters and
his wives. 
People (Ulema) who have studied extensively the Quran and Sunnah agree
that for a woman covering the whole body is a must. They only differ
whether covering the face and hands is required.

As far as Sura "NOOR", it does not say "BREAST" in english, it referes
to "Flyadribna bikhoumourihinna ala jouyoubihinna" it further ssyas that
"la youbdina zinatahounna illa ...." and recites the people who can see
the woman without hijab.

rached
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: Contradictions in Quran? -- Acquiring a Qur'an
Date: 7 Oct 1992 05:16 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: iago.caltech.edu
Keywords: Acquiring the Qur'an
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


In article <717708953@ramm.cs.duke.edu> d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi) writes:

>To understand the holy Quran you will have to read the whole of it.

Actually, I would say that it is required to read the whole
Qur'an to understand ISLAM.  To understand any one aspect
mentioned in the Qur'an requires studying the appropriate
passages.

It is recommended that one read the entire Qur'an, however.
That way we don't make statements betraying our ignorance....

>I recommend you to contact the I.P.C.I and tell them to send you a good
>translation on it. Its the one translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and it has
>commentaries which which may make it easier to understand what is meant.
>I believe it cost something between $7-$10.

Please note that the Qur'an itself CANNOT BE BOUGHT OR SOLD.  It
is the Word of GOD and has no price.  Prices given are requested
as donations so that the giver can acquire more Qur'ans, but the
common practice for muslims is to give things freely and without
charge or remuneration.  Especially among their Brothers and
Sisters in Islam.

Ask any muslim for a copy of the Qur'an and they'll most likely
just hand you one.

-AQ
From: srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve Rose)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Any Sufi related resources on the Internet?
Keywords: sufi
Date: 10 Oct 92 22:23:52 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Status: RO

Hello friends.  Wondering if anyone can point me towards resources 
(mail lists etc.) on the Internet related to "Sufism" (it's not really
an "ism", but...)  My name is Steve Habib Rose, and I can be reached
at srose@mizar.usc.edu (I don't believe the mizar part is necessary).
Thanks much.