From: peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Vampire System's Merit (NOT!)
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:54:38 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Nov20.224832.11084@nevada.edu>, wildcard@nevada.edu ( WildCard !!) writes:
SNIP SNIP
>The "mechanics" of Vampire are best used as gauge rather than a hard-and-fast
>number for the purpose of crunching.  Some of my players said, "That sucks!
>Why can't I bench 133lbs? Why are the increments like that?"  I replied that
>they were general guidelines and should not be taken as exact measurements.
>
>When used as a guideline for what a player and a ST'r then they become a tool
>for resolving conflict rather than a solution within itself. (ie "Roll this
>number or less on xDx and you do it)

SNIPPPED SOME EXAMPLES

>In conclusion, when used as a gauge, the "mechanics" of VtM are quite usefull
>and allow for flexibility but can be depended on, in a pinch, to satisfy
>those who like the random element of games. You may have to "tweak" them to
>suit you, but what game *doesn't* have house rules or some such thing.

Problem with Vampire is that you end up with *all* house rules.  When I
buy rules I expect them to work.  As for Vampire as a guideline well
howabout the skill system?  Skill 5 in X - the description says that
you are a great such and such What if the *usual* basis stat is very
low?  These descriptions are meaningless.  (Vampire is not the only
game to suffer from this).  Suppose you have Stealth 5, which you
bought with a few XPs.  You have DEX 1, so you're no good at stealth!
The description of Stealth 5 says you are.  The mechanics prove that
you aren't so hot.  The average Brujah with his Celerity adds to Dex
hat on will out-stealth you anyday.  Of course you can poke a hole in
this example, but the basic point stands: the descriptions
in the rulebook of different skill levels are a load of s**t.

As for difficulty 10, I laugh in the general direction of people who
attempt to defend this piece of poor game design.  Too many 'Ways'
result in difficulties of 10 or more and the system breaks down.  You
have to make up your own fic for these cases which is easy.  Why then
isn't it in the rules?

As for taking a second edition to invent the index, proper contents and
meaningful chapter organisations...  Are these people idiots?  I am not
buying another book from them just because they made a mess of the
first one.  To me that's a reason *not* to buy again.

As for Werewolf...  They seem to have added an index.  The contents is
still useless.  The rules themselves get as muddled as ever.  There are
about five different sectionsthat you have to read to get the full
story on Rage.  In one place it says you get rage whenver you're hit,
but nowhere else.  In fact it contradicts this in the main rage
section.  So no improvements there.  Hey and they added another magic
system.  Now we have Thaumaturgy, Hedge Magic, the stuff in Mummy and
Gnosis.  I think there's another one, but I've forgotten it for the
moment.  Every one has significantly different mechanics as well as
effects.  I think this is bad.  It does not add *character* it adds
rules.  I can't wait for Mage.  How many magic systems will we have by
then?

Who's seen the Storyteller's Guide?  Was it the lamest piece of self help writing you have ever seen.  I think it has.  "My dad didn't understand roleplaying."  I resent paying money for such s**t, I'm glad I didn't.

Ars Magica is so good and Vampire so bad because they are written by
different people (BTW).
--
Peter Wake
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy