From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:24:16 +1100
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>In article <1hrfo6INNpa1@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>In article 4600@bimacs.BITNET, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>>...
>>Nobody disputes that there was significant migration into and out
>>of Palestine over many years, but your contention that most
>>Palestinian Arabs of 1910 resulted from it is not supported by
>>the evidence.  Here is one of many pieces of quantitative evidence
>>that prove you are dead wrong:

>>  Birth places of residents of Jerusalem and Hebron districts in 1905.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>                       Cities              Villages
>>  district       Jerusalem  Hebron     Jerusalem  Hebron

>>  same place        78.0     96.7        93.9     94.8
>>  other Palestine   10.3      2.5         5.7      4.4
>>  not Palestine     11.7      0.8         0.4      0.8

>>  [U. O. Schmelz, Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron
>>     districts according to the Ottoman census of 1905, in Ottoman
>>     Palestine 1800-1910 (G. Gilbar, ed.), (Brill Leiden, 1990).]

>>These figures demonstrate that even in the most cosmopolitan place in
>>Palestine, Jerusalem city, most people who lived there in 1905 were
>>born there.

>Very nice , but I wrote about the STRENGERS population in the land of
>Israel, not about the total population (JEWS and strangers) at
>Jerusalem of 1914.

Mea Culpa!  The numbers I quote above are for MOSLEM residents only.
Sorry about that.  They were definitely not STRANGERS as you can see.
The paper gives the same statististics for Christians and Jews,
as well as lots of other stuff.

>( first dates statistics based on Othman (Turkish)
>Sources  they occupied the Land till 1917 later - on British ones
>they occupied the land till 1948).

>Year         Jews         Moslims         Christians        Total
>1840         7,120        5,000              3,390           15,510
>1870        11,000        6,500              4,500           22,000
>1896        28,112        8,560              8,748           45,420
>1905        40,000        7,000             13,000           60,000
>1931        54,000       20,000             19,000           93,000
>1946        99,500       33,500             32,000          165,000
>1967       165,000       60,000             10,800          267,000
>1985       328,000      115,700             14,000          457,700
>1990       353,900      125,200             14,400          493,500
>1991       393,200      136,530             15,170          544,900

I think (from memory, I may be mistaken) that the 1840-1905 figures
for Jews are not Ottoman figures but the considerably higher figures
collected by Arthur Ruppin from Jewish sources.  However, since the
conversation was about Arab residents, this point doesn't matter.

>Hence : from 1840 Jews are not just the largest minirity  at
>Jerusalem, Jews are the majority at that city.
>Add to the above the fact that many strangers came to Jerusalem after
>1910 e.g. those north African Moslims who lievd at the Magrab sub. of
>Jerusalem, and the fact that many strangers sattelt at Haifa area ,
>like those from Syria, the fact that the 2 part of Beit Lehem :Yammani
>( "from Yeman") and Massrawi ( "from Massr - Egypt") are new commers
>and you will get a more accurate picture about the situatuin.

The idea that _most_ Arab residents of Palestine in 1910 (or so)
were recent arrivals is one that cannot be supported on current
evidence.  In fact, I don't know of a single academic demographer
who believes that.  On the contrary, I think it is a propaganda
lie designed for a deliberate pupose: to rob the Palestinian Arabs 
of their natural rights.  

Your recital of examples of immigration proves nothing without 
statistics.  We could fill 100 pages with examples of immigrants 
into Japan during this century; should we then deny the Japanese 
their right to the Japanese islands?

Even if you were right (which you are assuredly NOT), so what?
By which authority do you presume to tell the Palestinians who
can be accepted into their family?  Would you permit them to tell
you who is a Jew?

> Shalom    gideon Ehrlich

Brendan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic