From: Mic.Oettinger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger)
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton - Family Values?
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:36:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.220151.14970@cco.caltech.edu> danlip@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel Adam Lipofsky) writes:
>
>Actually, Jennifer's post was accurate and showed much insight.  People
>have children to satisfy biological/psychological urges (or by accident).

Dan, I believe Jennifer was only speaking of views she had heard from
others, she has no personal experience to accredit her views to. Maybe you
can tell me WHY the urges are there? Certainly they don't think that they
will abuse the child or not want to care for it after it's born? I don't
know, but it seems many people here don't give a rat's behind about the
children they are fighting so badly to not have to support. Maybe those
people shouldn't have had kids in the first place then.

>Maybe you can be insightful, Michelle, and tell us your reasons if they
>are any different, as opposed to just making pointless flames.
>

My views are NOT flames, they come from my heart, and what she said was a
generalization. Nobody can tell me that the reasons for having children
are the same in all situations. I did not mean to cut her down as an
individual. That was bad judgment on my part, and I am sorry for that. At
the time I was just furious, because in generalizing she was talking about
ME as well as other wonderful single moms I know who I could never imagine
saying those are the reasons they have kids.

My reasons for having a child? It was an "accident", although I really
doubt someone who really didn't want a child would allow an accident,
except in situations where they were using birth control but got pregnant
anyway, or were raped (of course). To tell you the truth Dan, I longed for
a child to love and care for, all by myself. I had lots of love to give,
but no one to give it to. As I've always said I was born to be a mom, and
I love it. For all you men complaining away about money, think of this:
About 2/3 of my monthly earnings goes straight to my son's welfare, and I
wouldn't have it any other way. Maybe some of you can tell me how you feel
about your children, rather than griping about money all the time.


>The point Jennifer was trying to make (I believe) was that many
parents
>don't think about the commitment they have to make for the next 18 years
>when they decide to have kids to satisfy their urges, and this is what is
>responsible for much of the neglect and abuse of children that exists
>today.  You claim you had more forethought than that.  I am willing to
>believe you.  This does not negate the fact that a large number of parents
>don't show this forethought, and that parents do not always have the
>childrens best interests in heart, and therefore it is sometimes a proper
>thing for the state to interfer.

I agree with you Dan, you are very much correct, but that is not the way
she put it. Obviously, you put more thought into your message than she
did. Bottom line: being a mom myself, she insulted me by not including
enough words like "most" or "some" or "many".

>
>Please, think before you flame.  And if you still wish to flame, I will
>be happy to refer you to the appropriate group.  Let's preserve this group
>for intellegent discussion.
>
>--danlip

Like I said, I did not mean for it to be a flame, I'm sorry if it came out
that way. BTW, you know me not, so don't assume you know the intellectual
level of my views, maybe if you read it a few more times you'd see the
underlying message.

Michelle


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