From: guth@unixg.ubc.ca (Geoff Guth)
Subject: Re: Serbs and Croats (was: Where have all the Saxons gone.
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 05:09:02 GMT

In article <Bt1qo2.J2q@well.sf.ca.us> dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood) writes:
>In article <1992Aug4.001234.21759@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander)) writes:
>> 
>>There are no ethnic differences, and damned few cultural ones,
>>between the Serbs and the Croats.  Doesn't keep them from 
>>genocidal strife.  
>
>If there are no important differences, why do they have two names?
>
>I have the impression that the populations are distinct enough that they can
>often be told apart on sight, and that Croats are Catholic while Serbs are
>Orthodox.  But I'm just repeating hearsay.

If I may be so bold as to interject an extremely brief history of the two 
groups:

In the 7th century, slavs were found through much of Eastern Europe, with
the exception of the Balkans (part of the Eastern Roman Empire).  They had
been conquered by the Avars during the end of the 6th century.  However,
a combination of the revolt of the Roman army against the Emperor Maurice,
the devestation of the Balkans (left defenceless by the Roman revolt) by
the Avars, and a decline of Avar influence over the Slavs, especially those
moving into the Balkans.  This "arm" of teh Slavs was gradually cut off 
from the rest by the 9th century by, among others the Franks, remnants of
the Avars, Bulgars, etc.

In 1018, the Byzantine Empire, enjoying a bit of a renaissance, managed to
regain some of the Balkan possesions that had been lost more than 300 years
ago.  This involved conquering the southern part of this south-slav "arm"
--the serbs.  This revolted again in 1043.  The byzantines reconquered the
serbs in 1122, and managed to hold it for about 100 years.

The Croats, on the other hand, was conquered by the Kingdom of Hungary in
1097.  The Kingdom of Hungary was part of the Western (Catholic) church,
while, of course, the Byzantines were Eastern (Orthodox).  The Serbs, thus
were converted to Orthodoxy, while the Croats to Catholicism.  This also
led to a few other differences...the Croatians used the Roman alphabet (ours)
and the Serbians the cyrillic (developed by orthodox monks for slavic
languages). I understand that both _speak_ the same language...Serbo-Croatian,
but use different alphabets to _write_ in it even today.

Croatia maintained much closer ties with the west than Serbia throughout
the remainder of the Middle Ages (I don't know much beyond then) as part
of the Kingdom of Hungary.  Serbia, after a period of independance
following the collapse of the Byzantines after Myriocephalum (1176) was
conquered by the Ottoman Turks at Kossovo in 1389.  After a brief period
of independance in the early 15th century, they were conquered by the
the Ottomans (Ottomen?) in 1439..this time until the 19th century, while
Croatia remained part of first the Kingdom of Hungary and then Austria,
until world war I.

The major differences between the two are in religion and writing.  Religion,
of course is enough to keep a war going (e.g. Northern Ireland, the Middle
East, etc.)  However, the Serbs and Croats are extremely close relatives,
there has been less than 1000 years divergeance between the two, so on
ethnic grounds, the war makes little sense.  Yugoslavia should have been
a reunion of long lost families...

A minor point...I am unsure as to the origin of the Slovenes.  I assume that
they are a group of "break-away Croatians", although I may be wrong.  They
may not even exist as an ethnic group...I am not sure.

Balkan Medieval History is NOT my specialty...I would appreciate people
sending me corrections etc. therefore.

> >lord Anton the fair, token pursuivant for Cloondara
>-- 
>D Anton Sherwood *\\* dasher@well.sf.ca.us *\\* +1 415 664 2229
>Libertarian candidate for California Assembly, 12th district

Ricardus Britnel Sariberiae
please direct comments, flames, etc to
guth@unixg.ubc.ca

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