HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Fletcher Prouty's New Zealand Story (JFK)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:16:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Aug19.151657.629
 <1992Aug19.120533.627@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> <1992Aug19.183300.27213@cas.org>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug19.183300.27213@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.120533.627@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.142710.18984@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
>>> In article <1992Aug17.093243.603@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>>>
>>>>       Books by Agee (an ex-CIA agent who now lives in Germany and
>>>>can't even get a US passport anymore after CIA persecution)
>>>
>>>      Before using Phillip Agee as a source, you might want to
>>>      ask him about his disciplinary record in the CIA and
>>>      where he his money comes from.
>>>
>>>      Alec Chambers
>>
>>       I would hardly expect a glowing report from the CIA on any
>>whistle-blowers.  What about Marchetti and McGehee?
> 
> 
> 	I have no opinion on Marchetti and McGehee because I am not
> 	familiar with their corpus.  What I have seen of Marchetti's
> 	work seems to be sound.
> 
> 	As far as Agee is concerned you still have to answer questions like:
> 
> a.      Why did Agee fail to report a number of trips to Cuba?
> 
> 	As this was revealed in a public domain document and he
> 	didn't sue for defamation or libel I conclude that the
> 	report is true.
> 
> b.      Where DOES he get his money from?
> 
> 	This is the big question and has shut him up on several
> 	occasions.
> 
> 
> 	Alec Chambers.

	Agee's character I could not begin to attest to one way or
the other;i.e., is he disreputable or a victim of the 'big smear'.
	What he has to say, however, is right in line with Marchetti
and McGehee.  Let's face it.  Any former agent who goes public
with an insider's viewpoint of intelligence activities knows the
price of poker ...and it appears to have been a hefty price.  McGehee
particularly impresses me as a real patriot who just never could
sell his conscience.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:3055 alt.conspiracy:10137 sci.skeptic:14634
From: busta@vicki.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:55:19 GMT


In article <schuck.713688893@sfu.ca>, schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan
 Schuck) writes...
>Mitchell S Todd >
> 
> 
>>	"They" did so more by necessity than choice. Conscription
>>	tends to keep the grunts young, especially when an unpopular
>>	war keeps a lot of poeple from enlisting on thier own for
>>	longer terms.
> 
>>	Anyway, how did these tenneagers do in 'Nam?
> 
>Not very well at all.


   On the contrary. `They' did damn well. `They' never lost a single
 battle. The Vietnam fiasco was lost due to the higher ups not having
 a plan of victory. A war of attrition didn't stand a chance. `They'
 were sent into a village or hamlet to kill whatever VC and NV regulars
 and then move out. As soon as `they' would move out, the VC and NV regulars
 would move back in. Had `they' been allowed to move into these villages,
 secure them and keep a presence there, and continued marching North
 doing just that, `they' might have had a chance of a peace accord
 similar to what transpired in Korea 20 years earlier......

   Of course, that could only happen with the SVN people backing them...
 which, for the most part, they were ambivalent.....


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Paul R. Busta	Busta@vicki.enet.dec.com                       Salem,N.H.  
		--or-- ...!decwrl!vicki.enet.dec.com!busta    603-894-3962
		--or-- busta%vicki.enet@decwrl.dec.com

           "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
                            -U.S. Vice President J. Danforth Quayle
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Bullet Velocities
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:10:06 GMT

mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:

>Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>>mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:
>>>In article <schuck.713065419@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...

>>>>In light of my new found belief in the incredible slowness of the
>>>>'magic' bullet, please tell me:

>>>>How did such a slow moving bullet embed a bullet fragment so deep in
>>>>John Connally's thigh bone, a long hard bone, that the surgeons left
>>>>it embedded there rather than try and dig it out?

>>>	The fragment was never embedded in the bone. In the AP x-rays
>>>	of Connelly's thigh, it certainly looks like the fragment is
>>>	embedded in the bone; however, the side view shows that the
>>>	fragment is not far under the skin and not embedded in or
>>>	against the bone.

>>Thats funny. Both X-Rays in HSCA vol 7 show the fragment embedded in the
>>thigh bone.

>	Whose version of the HSCA report are you using? The Reader's
>	digest condensed set? I had no problem whatsoever locating the
>	fragment in the lateral view, and it wasn't even close to
>	the bone.

There are two X-Rays in vol 7 of John Connally's thigh.

The X-Rays are of two different views of the thigh.
 
Both have a fragment dead centre in the thigh bone.

In one the fragment appears to be leaning slightly, and in the other
you get a straight up and down view.



Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:3020 alt.conspiracy:10056
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: <None>...U2 Flights
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:43:50 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug17.143844.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>, ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
> Aploogies to whoever posted the following
> 
>>>>...and 1 former Marine, fresh from the Atsugi Air Base, where U2's flew
>>>>out of -- Lee Harvey Oswald.  
>>>>                                  [from Conspiracy by Anthony Summers]
> 
> 
> Isn't there a connection between the U2 flights, the CIA and Kennedy.
> (or was that Eisenhower)?. 
> 
> Isn't it possible that LHO was involved in action/information which could
> compromise these flights, and hence the President, during his time in Russia? 
> 
> Alternatelty perhaps he was to watch for the methods the Russians used to down
> Garry Powers and others, or perhaps help pilots who had ejected?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Al.

U2 flights were controlled by the CIA.  As a radar operator at Atsugi, LHO
had access to critical information such as flgiht altitude for which he
would have needed at least a secret clearance.  His file as reported to
the WC showed only a confidential clearance.  He went to Russia shortly
before the U2 with Gary Powers was shot down.

Interestingly, the CIA denied debriefing Oswald after he left the Soviet
Union...a supposed turncoat with critical information re the U2 who loved
Communism and was in Minsk when the U2 was downed.  Hmmmmm.  Many, including
myself, take this as supporting evidence that Oswald was CIA.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:3023 alt.conspiracy:10059 sci.skeptic:14467
From: jxxl@huxley.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: OCCAM doesn't like it. (Teen Agent)
Keywords: teen agents exist!  Oswald and Sue's father in-law
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:24:33 GMT
Reply-To: jxxl@cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi) writes:

> I believe that we can now conclude that there was at lease one teenage spy
> and dispose of Robert's silly syllogism "no spy is a teenager", which has 
> gotten much undeserved mileage.

We can now move on to the reductio ad absurdum that because it cannot
be proved absolutely that there has never been a "spy" under the age of
20, the Oswald must have been a spy. It's true that he led an unusual
life, but since he seems especially unsuited and unqualified for espionage
work, it's not necessary to make the leap that he was a spy. He mainifests
the characteristics of an uneducated, then self-educated person: his mind
is a random patchwork of knowledge. He could convince himself, because of
his reading of idealistic Marxist books, that the Soviet Union was a
paradise.

> My opinion as of this time, based on information some of which has floated
> previously on the network, is that Oswald was politically, a rightist, who
> had a "special relationship" with both the CIA and FBI, and during that
> relationship developed a "cover" which was that of a political leftist.

You can believe this, but you can't prove it. The overwhelming evidence is
that Oswald was a Marxist. The reason for having a cover is to appear--
plausibly--to be something else. An American who defects to the Soviet
Union is very implausible indeed. It does not make a good cover because it
draws so much attention to its strangeness.

> This scenario is very firmly established in evidence, so much so that we
> now routinely take it for granted, not remembering the days when Oswald was
> still seen as the Warren Commission painted him -- a kind of left-leaning, 
> Squeaky Fromm-Commie-wannabee, and a loner. For a lefty loner, Oswald 
> sure had an extensive network of righty consorts.

Oswald was friendless. The acquaintances he had after returning from the USSR
were people--George de M., for instance--who were interested in Marina's
welfare. There was no network of consorts, right or left.

> Garrison got it right -- Lee Oswald, boy spy, easily explains a whole bunch
> of data that the WC was struggling to explain, and, because of this,
> Occam likes it a lot.

Occam nicked himself shaving. The "boy spy" only explains Garrison's web
of half-truths; it does not explain much of what really happened.

> (P.S. -- Don't forget.  Now that Boris has opened up the Commie files, we'll
>  get to see what THEY thought of Oswald.  Stay tuned.)

This was covered on Nightline some months back. They did not say much more
than Nosenko said after he defected in 1964.

John
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Subject: Re: Gallery Magazine July '79
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:58:22 GMT

In <93512@bu.edu> abw@natchez.bu.edu (Al Wesolowsky) writes:

>In article <1992Aug10.211731.23597@watson.ibm.com> cc@cowan.fishkill.ibm.com (Chris Cowan) writes:
>>Recently, I stumbled across a copy of Gallery Magazine 7/79.   In it was
>>a special Newspaper-style Insert and one of those detachable plastic records.
>.....
>>Unfortunately, I can't find the freaking record!!!  Anyway, I was wondering if
>>anyone else has copies of these recordings?   I sure would like to hear them
>>to satisfy my own curiousity.

>I bought this copy of Gallery when it came out (for the record,
>honest.  Not for the pictures. No sir...) and played it on my hi-fi.
>But I couldn't make out squat. Rumbling and hissing and static was
>about it.

>Don't know what I expected. Maybe Lady Bird's voice saying "Lyndon, take
>your fingers out of your ears and sit up straight."?

>It was a great gimmick though.

Is there someone out there who has a digitized sample of this dictabelt
recording?
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Subject: where to get _Six seconds in Dallas_
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:39:18 GMT

I just received notice from my local bookstore that they can't get a
copy of Thompson's _Six seconds in Dallas_. Is this book, which is cited
so often, really unavailable or is it my bookstore that did a lousy job?
If it is still available somewhere I would very much like to have 
information on that.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:3012 alt.conspiracy:10035 sci.skeptic:14425
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Fletcher Prouty's New Zealand Story (JFK)
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:46:41 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article <29647@ursa.UUCP> billm@thor.fsrg.bear.com (Bill Moss) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.010738.24134@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>>
>>The quality of the photo looked better than what I get with my modern FAX
>>machine.
>>
>>
>
>Many people on the net are making a big deal about the fact that this photo
>seems too clear to have been received in New Zealand via wire.
>
>Maybe it wasn't.   But this proves nothing.
>
>Oswald shows up in wire service story.  Newspaper looks up in files for
>picture of Oswald.  They find an old picture.  They print it.
>
>Remember, Oswald had had newspaper coverage before, when he defected, and
>when he returned to the U.S.


Name one article with Oswald in it, before Nov. 63.

I doubt there is one.
From: abw@natchez.bu.edu (Al Wesolowsky)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Gallery Magazine July '79
Summary: Rumble rumble
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:59:23 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Aug10.211731.23597@watson.ibm.com> cc@cowan.fishkill.ibm.com (Chris Cowan) writes:
>Recently, I stumbled across a copy of Gallery Magazine 7/79.   In it was
>a special Newspaper-style Insert and one of those detachable plastic records.
.....
>Unfortunately, I can't find the freaking record!!!  Anyway, I was wondering if
>anyone else has copies of these recordings?   I sure would like to hear them
>to satisfy my own curiousity.

I bought this copy of Gallery when it came out (for the record,
honest.  Not for the pictures. No sir...) and played it on my hi-fi.
But I couldn't make out squat. Rumbling and hissing and static was
about it.

Don't know what I expected. Maybe Lady Bird's voice saying "Lyndon, take
your fingers out of your ears and sit up straight."?

It was a great gimmick though.

-- 
Al B. Wesolowsky         abw@bucrsb.bu.edu      Chresmology
Boston University      arc9arn@buacca.bu.edu   (cheap rates)
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: The Garrison Tapes (JFK)
Date: 15 Aug 1992 02:27:21 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug13.143203.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
|In article <169qinINNofb@darkstar.UCSC.EDU
|>, david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Aug10.054930.11707@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU
|> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
|> 2) A memo from George Bush (!) warning the FBI of rumours of a possible
|>    assassination was shown, but the source of this document was not stated.
|> 
|> have you gotten a source for this yet, by any chance?
|> 
|You may have missed my post re the Hard Copy (AUS.TV) show:
|By pausing and slow motion on my video the following was obtained from the film
|"The Garrison Tapes " produced by John Barbour:
|
|Photocopy of
|":US SECRET SERVICE memo
|  Re James Milton Parrott
|  Houston on November 22 advised that George H. W. Bush, a reputable
|  businessman, furnished information to the effect that Jim Parrott
|  has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston..."
|
|It is a poor photocopy so you need a good video copy to read it.

Thank you. It seems to be the very George Bush we have all been waiting
for.

|> |Also the Bronson film showing that there was no one on the sixth floor
|> |is very important.
|> 
|> ? Thompson says that his photo experts say two people (or more?) were on the
|> 6th floor.
|
|
|In the Garrison Tapes video it shows the "The Bronson film" in colour.
|It shows no activity at any of the TSBD 6th floor windows during the parade.
|Watch it for yourself and decide. (The film also shows US Govt Memo 63-43
|dated 11/25/63, claiming that the film does NOT show the TSBD and is of poor
|quality and irrelevant). Why?

Just a note: what you or I see is not particularly usefull. He claims that
looking at the originals he sees people moving around. I don't see it either,
and his stills of the film are not entirely convincing.


-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright)
From: Robert.Daniels@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Mommy was a Commie? (Was Teen Agent...)
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:10:38 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <_04mgdb.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>
>Oswald's mother learned Russian, as a lifelong Marxist this had great
>importance to her. What little LHO knew, he probably learned from Mom.
>

Do you mean Marguerite Oswald learned Russian before Lee joined the
Marines?  

What is the evidence that Marguerite was "a lifelong Marxist"?

What point in Lee's life are you referring to with the phrase "What little
[Russian] LHO knew.."?  Presumably this is some point before he joined the
Marines.

Could you please give sources for these points?



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: Re: Fletcher Prouty's New Zealand Story (JFK)
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Distribution: world,local
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:23:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.093243.603@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> 	Books by Agee (an ex-CIA agent who now lives in Germany and
> can't even get a US passport anymore after CIA persecution), McGehee,
> and Victor Marchetti, gofer boy for Richard Helms during this dark era,
> who authored "The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, et al, et al.

Sorry about the subject title (none) in two posts last week. Should have
included JFK for the skeptics. At the time I was having some hassles with the
USA Visa I am applying for.

FYI, the form asks whether I have any connections with the NAZI government of
Germany or have been involved in genocide - I had to laugh. But the question
about whether I had been arrested for anything (even if I had been acquitted,
pardoned, or not convicted) I thought was a bit unfair. Fortunately none of
these apply to me.

I remain......Big Al (my wife calls me this)... but it is not copyrighted.
From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:31:04 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

(Tom Warner) writes:
ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:

>>Isn't there a connection between the U2 flights, the CIA and Kennedy.
>Eisenhower, mainly. The U2 was an espionage plane flown by the military,
>though, not by the CIA.

Not only did the CIA fly U2s over the Soviet Union some of the work
was contracted out to the RAF to circumvent the limits imposed by
congress on the number of flights that could be sanctioned
(reference: A recent BBC TV series on the CIA that included an interview
 with one of the RAF pilots and film that was shot during his training
 for the U2 flights)

I believe that U2s are still used for flights over Cuba
(I can confirm later)

	Aaron Turner		aaron@minster.york.ac.uk

P.S. Is this particularly relevant to alt.conspiracy.jfk?
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:38:44 GMT

Aploogies to whoever posted the following

>>>...and 1 former Marine, fresh from the Atsugi Air Base, where U2's flew
>>>out of -- Lee Harvey Oswald.  
>>>                                  [from Conspiracy by Anthony Summers]


Isn't there a connection between the U2 flights, the CIA and Kennedy.
(or was that Eisenhower)?. 

Isn't it possible that LHO was involved in action/information which could
compromise these flights, and hence the President, during his time in Russia? 

Alternatelty perhaps he was to watch for the methods the Russians used to down
Garry Powers and others, or perhaps help pilots who had ejected?




Big Al.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: INVASION!!!
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:57:16 -0500

 GS> I am sitting here writing this, as my dad sleeps in the room next to
 GS> me...Apparently, the aliens and the CIA placed something inside to
 GS> monitor him, as I knew from previous experience with the kinds of things
 GS> I hae gone through, because every few minutes he lets out a agonizing
 GS> series of moans that makes my blood curl and my hate grow.

The only thing he is moaning from are the mounting hospital bills from your
electric shock therapy sessions.  I told you not to let that insurance policy
laps!  Now take your lithium...have a cookie...and watch 'Comedy Central'.



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: <None>...U2 Flights
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:53:28 GMT

Didn't a U2 recently crash near Korea? Is the plane still operational?
How old is it? 

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: pete@uunet!ctbilbo (Pete Ritter)
Subject: TESTESTESTESTEST  TTTT
Organization: Communications Technology Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:47:07 GMT

prueba,  prueba,  prueba.

uno, dos, tres.

tres, dos, uno.

se acabo.

gracias.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Pete Ritter    uunet!ctbilbo!pete          |    Yu no can kaikai buai na    *
* Communications Technology Corp. Dallas, Tx |    spet long makit.            *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science
From: conibear@sol.carleton.ca (Dave Conibear)
Subject: Re: why the moon/sun looks bigger -new expl
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:26:48 GMT

For those bemoaning the lack of photos comparing the "moon at horizon"
with the "moon in sky":

Try getting into the habit of blocking out the moon with your thumb
(better yet, your pinky) held at arm's length.  When you find that the
"moon at horizon" is no harder to cover up, you get a whole new class
of hypotheses:

a) The apparent "size difference" is not due to atmospheric effects

b) Your thumb (or pinky) is larger when pointed at the horizon

c) Your arm lengthens when inclined upwards

Testing these hypotheses is left as an exercise to the reader.  :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Q. Conibear                            conibear@math.carleton.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------------
    DISCLAIMER:  My employer doesn't approve of lunar hitchhiking.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science