HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wsonnen@alnitak.usc.edu (Wayne Sonnen)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Anti-oxidants v. oxygen therapy
Date: 7 Nov 1992 12:21:15 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: alnitak.usc.edu

In article <61410006@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
>
>
>		how oxygen therapy and anti-oxidants are both supposed to 
>	be good for your health? 
>
>	How can both anti-oxidants and oxygen therapy be good for us? Isn't
>	this a little like having your cake and eating it too?
>
In simplistic terms, the body's defense mechamisms use free radical agents to
kill foreign substances. In addition to this mode of generating free radicals,
the bodies metabolism creates free radicals durring a "normal" chain of chemical
reactions. Once the job of the free radicals is completed, the body needs to
destroy them. 

There are a number of 
closely related theories which suggest that free radicals created by "normal"
metabolic functioning cause dammage (to just about everything) when they are
not destroyed immediately after their job is done.
The idea of takking supplemental Vit. C, E, etc. is that these substances
can "scavenge" free radicals which are not destroyed immediately after their
metabolic/immune/whatever function is completed. Although these nutrients/drugs
are not perfect, they do seem to help. There have been numerous studies
demonstrating the benefits of these substances, however, the "free radical
theorys" are still subjects of research. However, more and more evidence
is mounting in favor of these free radical theories. As a consequence more
of the medical community (correct me if i'm wrong!) is recognizing the
benefits of supplemental anti-oxidants (Vit C and E for example).

You can thank the dogmatic thinking on the part of the medical
community (this is changing) for the lack of research on these issues
in recent years and the FDA for their censoring of this information 
to the public.

A book that i can recommend which discusses this is:
"Life Extenson", by D. Pearson and S. Shaw (1982 ?).

I welcome discussions on this subject---over the network please (so
everyone can read them).

Wayne Sonnen, Ph.D.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley)
Subject: Re: Milk and Mucous
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:08:28 GMT

Timothy Freeman (tsf@CS.CMU.EDU) wrote:
: 
: Did your mother change you over to cow's milk before you were one year
: old?

No, I was just a bit over one at the time.

Someone also posted asking about milk allergies.  I believe there are
three parts of milk which can cause allergic reactions (whey, cassein,
and I forget, and it's possible I've gotten this wrong, too), plus
lactose intolerance (which isn't an allergy, but is nonetheless unpleasant).
Over and above allergic reactions to milk, some people (my maternal
grandmother when she got older) have difficulty digesting fat at all 
(which can be a problem with whole milk, in particular).

I find the addition of milk solids (particularly adding whey to breads,
and even to margarine!) to be particularly frustrating.  While this
is tolerable in small amounts, the cumulative effect often makes me (and
others) ill.
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: More heart disease in Southern U.S.?
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:26:12 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I married a southern girl (So. Georgia) and was soon introduced to the
traditional breakfast of her area: literally heaps of bacon, scrambled
eggs, sausage, buttered grits, buttered toast, biscuits.  Loved it!

Later we both learned how bad this stuff is for you.  However, I have
never seen any statistics showing a higher rate of heart disease among
southern Americans as opposed to northerners.

Anyone know about this?  They have apparently
eaten this kind of breakfast for generations; it's much worse
cholesterol-wise than anything I've ever seen "up north."
-- 
-Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> {Sometimes you have to look reality straight
 OPINIONS ARE MY OWN            {in the eye, and deny it. - G. Keillor
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: niacin and the NIH
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:27:50 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

In <1992Nov9.091149.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mpmena@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>Rich Young writes:
>> 	Excuse me for butting in, but I think there's a semantic problem
>> 	here.  "First choice" may well not mean "worst", but it doesn't
>> 	necessarily mean "best," as in "most efficacious," either.  
>Rich, you're absolutely right... Sometimes, however, I have this bad habit of
>urging on certain personality types...I know I shouldn't, but it's such fun!

To you, perhaps.  I think it was a waste of bandwidth and made you look like
an idiot.  

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Are there any dietary magic bullets to lower cholestrol?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:32:40 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

In article <BxGJxt.1MF.1@cs.cmu.edu> tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman) writes:
>Or, according to these guys, you could regularly drink beer instead of
>taking your copper.  I prefer the copper myself; I want to keep my
>liver and brain for a while yet.
>author	=	"Leslie M. Klevay and Robert J. Moore" ,
>title	=	"Beer mitigates some effects of copper deficiency

Curiously, beer is a good source of chromium--chromium also appears to 
be effective in lowering cholesterol levels.  

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley)
Subject: Re: Milk and Mucous
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:42:00 GMT

Aviva Garrett (aviva@ultra.com) wrote:
: I have always heard that drinking milk causes mucous, but I have
: never heard a scientific explanation for this.
: 
..
: 
: Can someone provide an explanation of the
: relationship between the milk and the mucous?
: (My guess is that the mucous formation is related to the proteins
: in the milk.) 

My guess, based on my own experience with respiratory difficulties and
milk allergies, is that your daughter is allergic to milk.  My mother
tells me this is pretty much what happened with me as soon as she quit
breast feeding me and switched to cow's milk.  My pediatrician diagnosed
this as a milk allergy and had me put on soy milk, eventually working
me over to skim milk and later 2% by the time I was about 8.  The problem
worsened again (partly my fault -- I started trying to eat ice cream) in
my late teens and I am now unable to drink even skim milk.  The manifestation
of allergies as respiratory problems (mucus, phlegm, difficulty breathing
and, in worst cases, blockage of airways) is not unique to dairy products.

Whether there is another connection between milk and mucous I will leave
to the more informed.
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Pearson & Shaw (was Re: Anti-oxidants v. oxygen therapy)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:13:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxGL6M.32C.1
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1dh8frINNmie@alnitak.usc.edu> wsonnen@alnitak.usc.edu (Wayne Sonnen) writes:
   A book that i can recommend which discusses this is:
   "Life Extenson", by D. Pearson and S. Shaw (1982 ?).

Beware -- Their research is very sloppy.  They have a bibliography,
but the text doesn't have pointers into the bibliography, so you can't
easily find out which source (if any?) supports any given claim.  

Here's a book that carefully refutes parts of Pearson & Shaw's book
and says lots of other reasonable things as well, without slavishly
conforming to medical orthodoxy:

       AUTHOR: Yetiv, Jack Z.
        TITLE: Popular nutritional practices : a scientific appraisal / Jack
                 Zeev Yetiv.
    PUBLISHED: Toledo, Ohio : Popular Medicine Press, c1986.

Among other things, this fellow recommends a diet limited to plants,
eggs, and milk.  (I hate those long compound words describing the
different kinds of vegetarianism!)  (If you want to order the book via
mail, check in Books In Print for the publisher.  The copy I read was
not published by Popular Medicine Press.)

Pearson and Shaw's book is worthwhile as a list of weird ideas to
consider and to check carefully before using, but it would be a
mistake to do anything they say simply because they say it.

--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk and Mucous
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:52:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxGK71.22F.1
	<1992Nov7.004200.25902@ninja.zso.dec.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Nov7.004200.25902@ninja.zso.dec.com> rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley) writes:

   My guess, based on my own experience with respiratory difficulties and
   milk allergies, is that your daughter is allergic to milk.  My mother
   tells me this is pretty much what happened with me as soon as she quit
   breast feeding me and switched to cow's milk.  My pediatrician diagnosed
   this as a milk allergy and had me put on soy milk, eventually working
   me over to skim milk and later 2% by the time I was about 8.  

Did your mother change you over to cow's milk before you were one year
old?  According to past posts here, the gut "closes" then, which means
that your gut starts to do a reasonable job of preventing undigested
foods from getting into your blood stream.  It stands to reason from
this that food allergies are more likely for foods you eat before 1
year; I'd like to know if your experience is consistent with this.
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: request for info on egg consumption
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<1992Nov6.180954.23503@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:14:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.180954.23503@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:

   I have heard rumours to the effect that the amount of lecithin in eggs  
   is high enough to mitigate the extra cholesterol.  Can someone confirm.

No, that's not true. I've read several times that this is false.
Sorry, but I can't remember the references.

--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		O tempora! O mores!

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: ag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)
Subject: Re: Are there any dietary magic bullets to lower cholestrol?
Reply-To: ag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:33:08 GMT


In a previous article, sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) says:

>You got it.
>	HDL/LDL ratio is satisfactory.  Diet is already  
>semi-vegitarian; what red meat that's left is visibly fat free. Resting  
>pulse in the morning is usually 48-52.  And I'm already putting in 75  
>miles a week of exercise.  
>	At this point the only obvious sources of fat to cut out are  
>milk (currently 2%) and cheese. 
>	But cholesterol is 250, and the doc wants that to come down.
>
Switch to skim milk, and cut out the cheese!
That should help a lot.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Are there any dietary magic bullets to lower cholestrol?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:04:57 GMT

Subject says it all.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold)
Subject: trans- fatty acids
Gary:  in reply to your email in reply to my posting:
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:00:50 GMT

Fats and Oils in Human Nutrition by Udo Erasmus describes
the chemistry of oils.  It's quite an important book, although
lacking proper scientific references.

In nature, only certain specific fatty acids are produced by
plants.  Double bonds occur only in certain places along the
carbon chain (e.g. at the third and sixth carbon atom, but
generally not at the first, second, etc.) and they are generally
cis-double bonds rather than trans-double bonds;  the cis-double
bonds give the carbon chain a bent shape, while trans-bonds are 
almost straight.  (If you think of the carbon atoms as
tetrahedrons with four attachment places, there are these
two ways of arranging the bonds.)  Of course, our bodies have
evolved to tolerate and use the fatty acids that occur naturally
in plants, and to transform them into hormones etc.

When oils are heated, saturated oils don't change much (well,
maybe they oxidize), but unsaturated oils change easily:
the double bonds move to different positions on the carbon chain,
and cis-double bonds change to trans-double bonds.  The result
is substances that are foreign to our bodies, and that can,
for example, bond permanently to and thereby disable enzymes
designed to operate on similar but not quite identical substances.
Erasmus points out that margarine, for example, contains about 
20-40% by weight of a mixture of these substances that have
not been tested for safety in human nutrition and that vary in
composition from batch to batch.

I avoid foods containing "hydrogenated vegetable oils" or
(especially) "partially-hydrogenated vegetable oils", and
I don't cook unsaturated oils.  If the "hydrogenated
vegetable oils" really are completely hydrogenated, there's
no problem, but they probably aren't.

I probably won't be around to read replies to this. 

Cathy  woodgold@emr1.emr.ca  Ottawa, Canada  Standard Disclaimer
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: B6 as anti atherosclerotic?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:00:26 GMT
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.

The maximum safe dose for Vitamin B6 is more like 200 mg., and not 200
grams! 
--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		O tempora! O mores!
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Logic
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:29:58 GMT

In article <1da87lINNdm1@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> kjell@cse.ucsc.edu (Kjell Post) writes:
>Isn't the idea that sugar (and similar carbohydrates) will cause
>the candidal overgrowth,

A dubious premise.

>but that yeast is a common food sensitivity
>among those having candidal overgrowth?

Only among the credulous.  Of course many of these "candida sufferers"
aren't suffering from the medical syndrome known as candidiasis.  They're
suffering from what used to be called hysteria or neurasthenia.  Following
a strict regimen (it doesn't matter WHAT the regimen is) is often enough
to make such people feel better.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:35:22 GMT
Subject: The Players in Health Freedom
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition


								11/7/92

		      The Players in Health Freedom

As you may already know, various players are involved in legislation that could
limit our access to vitamins, minerals, amino acids and herbs. 

The legislation is the 1990 Nutrition Labeling and Education Act. 

The interested parties are:

  Health food stores and supplement manufacturers who have organized under the
  names NNFA (National Nutritional Foods Association), NHA (National Heath
  Alliance?), CRN, UNPA and CFH. They oppose the legislation.

  The FDA (Food and Drug Administration). The last I've read is that they 
  want to make amino acids and herbs available only by prescription. I'm not
  clear on their latest plans for vitamins and minerals. They're chartered
  to protect the public's health.

  Californian representative Henry Waxman. Health food organizations suggest
  that special interest groups have contributed millions to his campaign funds 
  in return for protecting the established medical community. Representatives
  can redirect excess campaign funds to fellow representatives who vote 
  "correctly", and the same health food organizations claim Rep. Waxman 
  controls the votes of up to 150 other representatives.

  Sen. Orin Hatch, who has introduced the Health Freedom Act of 1992, which 
  would limit FDA regulation of health food stores and manufacturers.
  
  Congress, which recently agreed to a delaying the FDA's regulation for
  one year. 

  The comptroller general is directed to review the process used by the FDA
  to decide just which supplements to approve.

  The Office of Technology Assessment will conduct a separate analysis on how
  other nations regulate supplements.

  The Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services will receive 
  these reports by June 15, 1993, and will propose supplement regulations
  which take effect on December 31st 1993.

  Consumers, who have a little more time to ask their congressmen and women
  to vote accordingly on Senator Hatch's Health Freedom Act.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: niacin and the NIH
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 02:30:18 GMT

mpmena@skcla.monsanto.com writes:

| OTHER TIDBITS FROM MEDLINE
| Regarding dosages and side effects, the flushing is a topical response, caused
| by PGD-2 release in the skin...
| 	Lavie CJ et al. Am J Cardiol 1992 Apr 15;69(12):1083-85

Isn't that PGE-2 (prostaglandin e-2)?

== Bob Yazz ==
-- 

Welcome to Sci.med -- where-school-of-thought bashing is as old as
sickness itself.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: request for info on egg consumption
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:09:54 GMT

Paul Taplin writes
> If this is a FAQ I apologise...
> 
> A friend of mine believes that one fowl egg per week is the suggested
> limit to avoid raising one's cholesterol level too far.
> I would like to know a little of what the latest research says about
> the "dangers" of eating eggs, and the suggested maximum per week.
> 
> Thanks,
> 

Well the sheet my doc gave to me last week to help reduce cholesterol  
said max of 2 egg yolks/week  (Whites are ok...)

I have heard rumours to the effect that the amount of lecithin in eggs  
is high enough to mitigate the extra cholesterol.  Can someone confirm.
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: dietary magic bullets to lower cholestrol?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:14:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ra.BxH1vz.FFI
Organization: NRL

> You got it.
> 	HDL/LDL ratio is satisfactory.  Diet is already  
> semi-vegitarian; what red meat that's left is visibly fat free. Resting  
> pulse in the morning is usually 48-52.  And I'm already putting in 75  
> miles a week of exercise.  
> 	At this point the only obvious sources of fat to cut out are  
> milk (currently 2%) and cheese. 
> 	But cholesterol is 250, and the doc wants that to come down.
> 
Hate to say this, but try drinking skim milk (you'll get used to it,
especially if you just use it on cereal, etc.) and using nonfat 
cheeses or none.  You can substitute tofu for cheese in alot of
dishes (like lasagna), which cuts down on saturated fat and prob.
overall calories (not sure how it compares with nonfat ricotta, 
though). How about switching from the red meat to fish or chicken or
turkey, if you can't handle going completely vegetarian right
away (or ever; sorry, it's hard for us veggies to avoid SOME 
preaching)?  Is high-chol. common in your family?  In that
case, there may be a limited amount you can do about it :-<.
HOWEVER, it's still better to keep up the healthy habits, as 
you're doing --- they can only be helping (IMHO)!

Judy Karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil     not quite vegan, and chol.~120 
                                (but still a chocoholic)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Logic
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:44:25 GMT

>Isn't the idea that sugar (and similar carbohydrates) will cause
>the candidal overgrowth, but that yeast is a common food sensitivity
>among those having candidal overgrowth?
>

I'll have to look up the details on canadia. More after I find out
more.

john

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
From: techjn1@sdc.boeing.com (Henry Noble)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Are there any dietary magic bullets to lower cholestrol?
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:25:22 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services (ESP), Seattle, WA

In article <1992Nov6.180457.23321@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
>Subject says it all.

The only ones I know are (1)Read labels & cut down cholesterol intake;
(2)increase exercise markedly and (3)Take niacin, if you body tolerates it.

Good luck.

-henry
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Pearson & Shaw (was Re: Anti-oxidants v. oxygen therapy)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:36:42 GMT

tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman) writes:

| In article <1dh8frINNmie@alnitak.usc.edu> wsonnen@alnitak.usc.edu (Wayne Sonnen) writes:
|    A book that i can recommend which discusses this is:
|    "Life Extenson", by D. Pearson and S. Shaw (1982 ?).
| 
| Beware -- Their research is very sloppy.  They have a bibliography,
| but the text doesn't have pointers into the bibliography, so you can't
| easily find out which source (if any?) supports any given claim.  

A very valid criticism of their first book.  However, they have two
more (_Life Extension Companion_ and _The LIfe Extension Weight Loss
Program_) wherein the text DOES contain the pointers into the
bibliography.

| Pearson and Shaw's book is worthwhile as a list of weird ideas to
| consider and to check carefully before using, but it would be a
| mistake to do anything they say simply because they say it.

In their books they say exactly this, multiple times, and in much
stronger and ruder language.

For example, they say that anyone who takes their experimental
supplement formula without a doctor's care and ongoing medical
monitoring is a "damn fool".

I'm also partial to some of the quotes they include at the start
of each chapter.  My favorite is from Mark Twain:

	"Beware of health books.  You could die of a misprint."

Best Wishes

== Bob Yazz ==
-- 

Welcome to Sci.med -- where-school-of-thought bashing is as old as
sickness itself.