HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conrad@ravel.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Du Pre recital
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:56:37 GMT

In article <15SEP199211421234@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:

>I've always gotten the impression from his recordings that Barenboim was just
>an ok conductor and pianist.  

I feel much the same, though on occasion he can be a better-than-ok
pianist.  Usually in piano music that is not "mainstream soloist
repertoire."  His DG recording of the Mendelssohn Songs Without Words is
quite lovely for instance, as are his Lieder accompaniments.

>And why did he get to succeed Solti?

Orchestral musicians like him.  (Apparently subscription audiences do
too, but I have no info about that.)  Time and again I've talked to
professional orchestral players who name Danny as one of their
favorites.  I don't know; perhaps, being an active instrumentalist
himself he comes off as "one of them," a musician.  Or maybe the things
he likes to do as a conductor are the same sorts of things orchestral
players like to do too, and usually aren't allowed to (like stretching
out every little internal high point).

I should add that I do not consider orchestral players' likings as much
of a reason for choosing a conductor.  I don't go all the way with
Norman Del Mar, who wrote that "players will love any conductor who
dismisses rehearsal early," but I do feel that they aren't in the best
position to tell what kind of results he achieves from the audience
standpoint.

I recall Margaret Hillis talking about him.  She, of course, is the
director of the magnificent Chicago Symphony Chorus.  She said that when
she prepared a chorus for one of the big works, and then handed them
over to a Solti or Giulini or Abbado, she felt privileged to do so.  And
when she did the same for Barenboim she felt insulted; she could have
conducted it better herself.  I should add that she felt that he had
improved (this was in 1979), and she no longer felt this way, at least
not as strongly.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: recommandation for good performances of choral works.
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:43:24 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake dmnhieu@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Duy-Minh NHIEU):
>
>   If I were to study performances on choral music (ie: What constitute a 
>good choir or choral group?)

>     big groups:  The King's college choir
>                  The Cambridge singers (John Rutter)

(Insert shrug here)

I find these groups to be very wimpy; there's a very English sound about them
that is (to my ears) weak and shrill.

>                  The Montevedi choir (together with the English Baroque
>                                       soloist, conducted by John Elliot 
>                                       Gardiner)

Hard to beat, in almost anything they do.

>                  The kings' singers

Blreah.  I used to think they were cute; now I simply avoid them.

My top few:

Small groups:

	Hilliard Ensemble

		Very very very good.  Incredibly tight ensemble, amazing
		range of periods and styles.  Their recordings of Arvo
		Pa:rt are stunning.

	Tallis Scholars

		Unmatched for English Renaissance music; also superb for
		other music of that period.

There's another group, directed by Philippe Herreweghe, that has the words
"Chappelle Royale" in their name, that does superb motet work across a variety
of periods.  Check out their Mendelssohn and Brahms motets.

	Les Arts Florissants

		Have singlehandedly resuscitated the music of Lully and
		Charpentier.  Superbly musical performances.


Larger groups:

	John Eliot Gardiner, Monteverdi Choir

		Gardiner has the Midas touch; everything he does turns
		to gold.

	Robert Shaw, various groups

		Atlanta symphony and chorus, Robert Shaw chorale, whatever
		the group, Shaw knows vocal music.  His work with the group
		of vocal musicians and teachers that perform the Rachmaninoff
		Vespers on Telarc is superb.


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 10th. Symphony
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:56:28 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep10111951@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>I've looked at Mahler's original and heard the arguments and listened to
>the result, and I consider this a Mahler symphony.  What else would it
>be--a work of Deryck Cooke's?  Aside from editorial questions, it works.
>I asked Giulini if he had any interest in it and he responded "It's not
>Mahler", but to me it is.  I'd like to know other netters' opinions.

Oh, it's unmistakably Mahler - and it even moves forward from the 9th.
I can imagine questioning whether it's a symphony or not, though. That
is, whether it really is integrated into a large structure the way Mahler
would have done it. 

							Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: Karajan & Solti (& now Sibelius)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:30:00 GMT

>From: smith@CS.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith)

>In article <8SEP199216410533@deimos.caltech.edu>, inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:

>|>   although there are some very fine recordings, it's a very Germanic 
>|>  Sibelius that he presents 
>|> 

>Perhaps,  but Sibelius himself said that HvK was the only conductor who 
>understood his music.

>Jeremy.

 When did he say that? What about Beecham, Kajanus & Koussevitsky,
all of whom (esp. Kajanus) had close links with Sibelius while he was
actually writing music

  Astonished,
     Psasdena



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Suo Gan "Empire of the Sun" song
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:20:33

mitchell@Software.Mitel.COM (Robert Mitchell) writes:

     The Steven Spielberg movie "Empire of the Sun" opens with a song
   called "Suo Gan".

     It is a Welsh lullaby. What does the song title mean ?
   What is the song is about, and who wrote it ? When ?

     There are several people interested in this little mystery.

Tell them all to buy "Candlelight Carols", by the Trinity Choir, Boston
(London 430 456-2).  It is a traditional Welsh melody, and the words were
written by Robert Bryan in 1905.  George Guest made the arrangement on this
CD, and provided the translation.  Read the translation, and you'll find
yourself remembering with nostalgia the days when you didn't understand it;
it is fairly vapid.
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:12369 news.answers:2800
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Korngold
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:17:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


_Magic Fire_ contains no original Korgkold music. Just arrangements
of Dick W's operas. EWK compressed all of the Ring into 2 and a half
minuets
Has anyone listened to the 4 CD collection of Korngold orchestral
music. Lotta cool stuff, in particular a "Baby Saranade" done like
a Kurt Weill with a cheery, happy view on life. Comments, please.
Mark Stackpole   pacnet@rocky.claremont.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Sibelius Second Symphony
Organization: Visual
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 12:26:32 GMT

>hearing Vladimir
>Ashkenazy conduct the 7th in concert several years back

Incidentally, I've heard tell that members of the Boston
Symphony found him to be a delightful man, but nearly 
impossible to follow as a conductor.

Personally, I've always thought I've heard a marked lack of
rhythmic energy in the works he's recorded.  I saw him do the
Schoenberg "Pelleas" with the BSO last year, and found
that to be a rather muddy experience as well.

In a general sense, I'd say his conducting is servicable but
unextraordinary.  I admire his ambition, particularly in
pursuing both his pianistic and conducting endeavors 
simultaneously, but aside from that I guess I miss what
all the fuss is about.

Anybody else care to comment?

Rob
From: pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: *NEW* FAX # for Breitkopf und Haertel, WEISBADEN needed
Date: 5 Sep 92 18:21:24 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I asked this question a year or so ago, and no one knew the answer.  My
very idle curiosity still not satisfied, I'll ask again.

East Germany and West Germany each had their own post-war versions of
Edition Peters and Breitkopf & Haertel.  Did these companies re-unify
after 1989?  It was always nice in the East bloc to purchase very cheap,
albeit low-quality Peters editions of basic quartet repertoire and the
like, though I suppose not so nice for the low-paid people who actually
did the publishing.

-David Pesetsky
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Le Sacre, Stravinski
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:25:51 GMT

In article <BuCxsJ.8Ix@cs.vu.nl> lrozend@cs.vu.nl (Rozendaal L) writes:
>I'd like to know which performance of 'Le sacre du printemps' is considered
>the best. Any opinions?

I like Stravinsky's and Boulez's (Cleveland) from the early 60s.
It seems when the tempo is slow, I like Boulez's, and when the tempo is
fast, I like Stravinsky's.

I understand Boulez has re-recorded it in DDD with Cleveland, and it is
on Deutsche Grammaphone.  I have not yet heard it.

Jeff
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Tristan and the taragota
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:45:28 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <18ptr7INNin8@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:

>Margaret Mikulska (mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU) wrote:

>: 3. It was the other way round: Wagner specified cor anglais, and
>:     Mahler suggested the use of tarogato instead.
>Can you provide some source information about that? - I'd like to track it
>down. I know the scores I checked don't have a T., but I have read it the other
>way in a few places. 

>It would however fit Mahler's view on tarting things up. But to whom did
>he make the suggestion?

The suggestion might have had a very practical reason.  When the pipe
is supposed to give the "signal" later in the act, it does so over full
orchestra.  The chances of an English horn being heard from backstage
under such circumstances are slim.  Hence the experimentations with
other instruments.  Even a trumpet has been used.  This also might be an
explanation of Wagner's having thought of using other instruments, even
though he settled for English horn in the published score.

>: I never heard of any recording of Tristan with tarogato (unless I simply
>: didn't notice that it was there). 

You can hear different things on different recordings.  I belive Robin
Holloway's chapter in "Opera on Record" (ed. Blyth) mentions some, if
not all of the variances between recordings at this point.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: Of Mice and Schenker
Reply-To: Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:04:09 GMT


I have often felt that poorly-taught Schenker is worse than no Schenker at all.
If Hector (and anyone else who is curious) will allow me to beat my own drum
(as accompaniment to a 3-2-1 melody over a I-V-I bass) just a bit, I would
call attention to the following item from my list of publications (with
apologies for the LaTeX source style):

\item ``A Computer Aid for Schenkerian Analysis,'' Computer Music Journal
{\bf 4}, No. 2 (1980), 41-59.

This provides a basic exposition of the principles which should go down well
enough with the computer-literate.  Basically, the game is one of constructing
parse trees using transformational rules.  Since none of those words were in
Schenker's working vocabulary (and since he had this alternative of
establishing the superiority of German music with Brahms at the apex),
one will not find such a simple explanation anywhere in the Schenker canon
(and the disciples are no more likely to let on since simplification is not
in their best interests).  Once the underlying principle is recognized,
however, most of the obscurity can be blown away.  Vance invoked the right
analogy.  You do not appreciate literature by diagramming sentences.  Schenker
provides in interesting approach for how one might "diagram sentences" for a
particular corpus of tonal music.  (Whether or not the approach can be extended
beyond that corpus is an open question.)
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Re: Wagner Weekend and Karajan
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:09:45 GMT

In article <27990093@otter.hpl.hp.com> 
>sec@otter.hpl.hp.com (Simon Crouch) writes:

>Rob Writes:

>> [Parsifal] is the first Wagner I ever came to know.  It is the only Wagner
>> I have ever seen staged live, and for that I had to make a pilgrimage to
>> NY and shell out the bucks to stay in a hotel and attend the opening
>> night of the (then) new MET production with Domingo and Norman.  

>Is this a common effect? Those friends of mine who have experienced
>Parsifal have all said it has had a deep effect on them. I seem to 
>remember reading somewhere that Elgar was deeply moved...

I went to Indiana U back in the 60s, when Parsifal was still a regular
event every Eastertide.  Huge quantities of local folk went to the
performances (always on Sunday with Bayreuth-scale dinner intermission).
Everyone seemed deeply moved even though I bet few of them had a
coherent idea of the story (I know I didn't at the time).  I remember
one older man remarking to his family in purest Hoosier: "That-there ol'
Parsifal theme sure tugs at the ol' heartstrings, don't it?"  

As for me, though I was impressed in a general way, I didn't really get
to *know* the opera till 1988 when I sunk myself in restudy of the
mature Wagner pieces in preparation for Bayreuth (where, alas, I saw
everything they were doing that year BUT Parsifal).  I'm now an addict
myself, though Meistersinger remains closer to my heart.

>> That said, I agree that a Wagner Anonymous group should be started.
>> I doubt I know anywhere near enough to run for president, but 
>> I would volunteer for "recording" secretary.  Can never turn down
>> another Wagner recording, you know ...  (Sorry.)

>I think we'll need to fight that post out at the hustings!

It'll be a three-way fight, as soon as I can look up "hustings"!!

Jon Alan Conrad
From: bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: RE: Funeral music
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:13:17 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

M. Valinis's notes on possible funeral music include

>Having played for many years in two concert bands, I've also
>fleetingly considered adding Sousa's The Stars and Stripes Forever to
>the list, but even though they have come to expect almost anything
>from me, I don't think my family would appreciate this.... it WAS
>played for my daughter's wedding, however.....

1) The Sousa _was_ done by the Boston Pops -- ppp, no conductor --
when Arthur Fiedler died.

2) Frederick Fennell is on record, in public print, as wanting to have
E. E. Bagley's [you guessed it] played at his own funeral.

The piece that I find conspicuous by its absence in everybody's list
(that I've seen so far) is Ives' _The Unanswered Question_.

Bertram Walsh  Mathematics Dep't  Rutgers University New Brunswick NJ 08903
From: rpt@edscom.demon.co.uk (Richard Tomlinson)
Subject: Re: help!
Organization: EDS-Scicon, Milton Keynes, UK
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:19:58 GMT

In article <ZyRTqB4w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:
> 
>CBC radio has done it again...played something brilliant and didn't give 
>the name of the piece.
> 
>Anyone know what piece I'm talking about?

No. But why not ring up the radio station and ask them?

Just an idea.

Richard.
-- 
Richard Tomlinson, EDS Scicon, Wavendon Tower, Milton Keynes, UK MK17 8LX
rpt@edscom.demon.co.uk   Tel:  +44 908 284539          Amateur radio: G4TGJ
All opinions expressed are mine, and are not necessarily those of my employer.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
In-reply-to: rwh@visual.com's message of Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:57:18 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:26:13 CDT


Rob Holzel recounts a Bruckner -> Shubert/Dvorak switcheroo.  How about
this one.  We had bought (expensive for Minnesota) tickets for Mahler 3.
Our best friends had come 300 miles to attend this with us, he being a
Total Mahler Person.  About one minute before the music started, we
realized they had changed the program, and thereby narrowly missed
hearing Bernstein's Candide overture.  Think about Candide's opening
notes and imagine hearing that when you're expecting Mahler.  This is my
argument for retaining the capital punishment option.  (Just kidding,
mostly.)

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

You should try the version by George Szell with the Concertgebouw Orchestra
of Amsterdam.  It is available on Philips CD 420 177, and is paired with an
equally superb performance of Beethoven's Symphony No. 5.  Szell's legendary
precision is a real plus for both works, and for its age, the sound is 
excellent.

Rick Scherer
From: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Schaeffer and Henry
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:22:53 GMT
Reply-To: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Organization: Heurikon Corporation, Madison, WI

In article <1992Sep8.145451.11673@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>Help... Could somebody please enlighten me as to the available CD recordings
>of music by Pierre Schaeffer and/or Pierre Henry, especially their *musique
>concrete* and electronic pieces. They may be available on obscure (to me)
>French labels which don't make it to my part of the world.



ALL of Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henri's musique concrete is collected 
on the 4 CD set on INA-GRM/Librairie Seguier edition [catalog number 
INA C 1006-1009]. This includes all of the original compositions, the
"redone" versions Henri went back over, and a disc of interviews wit
M. Schaeffer. It gets a fair amount of airplay here, and you'd be surprised
at the number of our black-clad industrial music pals who exhibit some
considerable consternation upon discovering the work is some 40-odd
years old. 

There's also a disc of Henri's tape work, including "La Voile d'Orphee"
on Harmonia Mundi. Don't have the catalog number offhand. 

--
A machine plays many pianos at once and the music holds them aloft, a different
tune for each ship. Freedom has nothing to do with control and control nothing
to do with my weak heart lonely for its birthday and the excitement of pure
sunlight and of snow parting into countless buoyant shapes over the airfield.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: Du Pre recital
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:14:07 GMT

In article <FKFQB385@cc.swarthmore.edu>, rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) asks...

> Can anyone reccomend a good recording of Mahler 6?  I hear Haitink's
>new Berlin Phil recording and Karajan/BPO from the 70's are well worth the
>$26.  What about Tennstedt or ("oh god this is so slow") Bernstein.
> 
Check out either Solti or Karajan recordings of the 6th.  I do not 
recommend Haitink for the "middle" Mahler 5-8, I have not heard a recent
one by Tennstedt, but his earlier recordings (I had a chance to listen to 
his cycle on Everest or some obscure label) left much to be desired for a 
variety of reasons - not all conductor related, and unlike others in this 
group, I have never particularly like Bernsteins's Mahler.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: L'Incoronazione de Poppea
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:33:48 GMT

In article <9844@fs3.cam.nist.gov>, blue@cam.nist.gov (Jim_Blue_x3809) writes...

> I seem to
>remember, but cannot find, a recommendation of the Harnancourt
>recording. Did I just imagine that? Is the Harnancourt any good?

The Harnoncourt is very good, with the caveat that it's performed on
period instruments.  So if you have a problem with viola de gambas and
sacbuts, you may want to look elsewhere.

If you can find a copy of the LP, you'll find some very atypical cast 
photographs.  One of the sopranos wears a see-through blouse revealing
her perky smallish breasts quite clearly (in the classical style and in 
good taste, of course).

Harnoncourt's recordings remind me of Woody Allen movies (if we can
forget for the moment the recent broohaha) in that he seems to use
all his friends, like Kurt Equiluz, Tom Patterson, Max von Egmond,
and the rest.  One reason is that they have made it their business 
to understand and interpret renaissance singing, ornamentation etc.
(you know, all those ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha's?).  Perhaps the most
often heard detraction about Harnoncourt's interpretations is that he is
not free enough in the chamber orchestra and should allow more ornamentation
and maybe even some improvising, and I do think there is some stiffness
at times, but, overall, I get the feeling of a very accurate and
true performance...it sounds... older.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: oboes (was: violists)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:38:10 GMT

Shifting to another maligned instrument:

Q: How do you get two oboes to play a perfect minor second?

A: Ask them to play in unison....
-- 
=>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+{*}+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <=
+>=>      "Language, n.  The music with which we charm the serpents      <=<+
=>+>=>         guarding another's treasure."   -Ambrose Bierce         <=<+<=
+>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical