From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: DC: Lay off buddy ...
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:43:55 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul28.151227.13042@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
> ... you're gettin' off the subject and on my nerves.  I didn't come here to
> debate the morality of war with you.  Hey man it's a bad thing.  And no I
> don't feel those people invading home and hearth deserve to die.  It's just
> (more delted) 

You started out your first post by saying that fantaszing about rape is sick
and deviant.

I countered with cites that say it is O.K., provided fantasy and reality do not
mix.

You said you didn't buy it, and anyone who would want to watch a rape film is
sick.

I am specifically asking you, what is the difference between watching a film
with a rape scee and a multitude of John Wayne movies??? Why is fantasizing
about killing people noble (heroic) while fantasizing about raping is sick,
sick, sick?

You have no problem seing that non-rape fantasies, even if on a socially
unacceptible subject, are fine.

My question is, what makes rape fanatsies different from all the rest? What can
you say that can not be applied to all of the others?

And, if you can not discern a difference, matbe there isn't one.

I can understand that are are upset by the subject. However, you face two
options which do not co-exist:

1. Attack blindly hoping to solve the problem.

2. Try to understand the problem WITHOUT being sidetracked by emotionalism, and
then go through the difficult process of modifying your actions to help solve
the problem.

There are no easy shortcuts.

Something else you said earlier is somethign you might want to consider--you
stated (I believe it was you) that you were relatively sure that your wife did
not have any rape fantasies. But, you were not sure. Based upon your extreme
reaction to any differing opinions on the subject, IF she had any, do you think
she would feel comfortible telling you?

And, if she did, would she feel guilty about it because she could not talk to
you about it? And possibly feel guilt about what she was feeling about
fantasizing about such a thing which she know to be horrible in reality?

If you need to rant and rave and scream, by all means do so. But it is really
counterproductive to bemspewing emotions without facts OR honestly asked
questions. 

> 
> DC I am appalled that you would use words like "pussy" and "faggot/homo"  I
> certainly haven't used that kind of language.  Of course I would come to the
> defense of a man being assaulted.  I just don't think I would be as motivated.
> Sorry, just the way I am.  I don't see the connection to this attitude and my
> position on punishment for rape.  Pardon my density but maybe you could
> enlighten me.  And thank you, but no, I don't think I would like to be shredded
> by feminist.  

I am curious why you would not defend a man as readily. I know why I have the
same feelings. I am curious if you know why you have yours.

> 
> What d ya' say we lay off or at least de-escalate.  I mean I didn't even
> address that last post to you yet you felt compelled to respond.  This crap
> ain't helpin' nobody man.
> 
> KimmyD
> 
> P.S.:  If you are just lookin' for someone fight with, go pick on somebody
>        your own size man.  Your beatin' me up to bad ...

Good. Attacking my rape scenes list deserves it.

In all seriousness, all I have been trying to do is point out some areas where
your ideas conflict with either reality or your other ideals. And you are not
alone in that respect. Most people grab onto what seems like a quick fix to the
problem (actually, ANY problem) and say this is what should be done. However,
this world is an interconnected mix that does not permit only one thing to be
affected.

Death penalty for rapists? Less filing, more violent rapes, less convictions,
less prosecution, more of a perception that the govenrment is treating rapists
to hard. The pendulum swings in a direction no one wants.

Same peanlty for all rapes? Same swing of the pendulum.

Repression of erotic rape scenes? More exploitive R rated movies,
sensationalism of an issue, total numbers of rape films shoots up, and instead
of showing penetration, film makers must contend with more graphic scenes of
violence (Thank Ed Meese for that one.)

Ban films showing rape? First amendment problems aside, how do you portray rape
in all of its ugliness? Set up a panel to censor good from bad rape movies?
How long before the panel sensors films with unhealthy sex scenes that lead to
rape? 

The only route which appears to avoid any backlash is the one the public is
following--learn more about the real cause of rape, and try to cope with it
WHILE stressing that a woman's body is her temple, and if she doesn't want to
let you in, go find another priestess.

DC