HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Gaze in the NBA?
Date: 1 Oct 1992 16:32:41 -0500
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu

dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce) writes:


>I don't think so.  Gaze numbers were great in D II in Italy because he was
>playing against D II opponents. They aren't that great so he looks like a star.

>Kinda like when you play against your little brother and are able to crush
>him 15 - 0 every game and then you go to the park and get your butt whipped
>by some REAL ball players.

YEAH!!! And also kinda like going to some nothing NAIA school like Arkansas
State and whooping ass there and expecting to do it in the NBA! Like that
Scottie Pippen character! Never mind.

>					Dennis J.

Stan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Can someone please post this stuff again?
From: adem1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Adam Edward         Demeter        )
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:21:12 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

   Can someone please post all this stuff again? they ahve all expired, (not
   to sure if that is local or global, what was the gist of underestimating
   lakers and salary caps? what is the signing info of magic? 94-95 1 year?
   Does that mean that he is playing not this year but the next year? That
   doesn't really make sense!!

Thanks,
Adam.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Underestimating the Lakers, again
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:02:46 GMT

max@ocf.berkeley.edu (Fude Max Chuang) writes:

>>suggest that Magic might disrupt a team chemistry. They'd have to run

>I guess the best way to minimize the disruption would be to have him come
>in off the bench.  Maybe he could be a 3-point specialist or something.
>Certainly it would be less disruptive than changing your starting line-
>up every other game.  Plus, imagine having your first two reserve guards
>coming off the bench be Magic and Peeler.  Heck, if Peeler can play,
>they can relegate Scott to backup.  A backup backcourt of Scott and
>Magic :)

	Magic -- off of the bench?  U must be joking!  On the greatest
	team of all time -- USA '92 -- he started every game he could
	play -- and if people like Stockton and Drexler can't unseat him,
	Threatt will?

	Besides, Magic has been a starter his entire life.  And, it
	doesn't seem like his skills has deteriorated to the point where
	he has to come off of the bench.  In the games he plays, Magic's
	going to start and play 30+ minutes.  Count on it.  As far as
	changing lineups -- someone like Threatt was a part-time starter
	before his years w/ the Lakers anyways -- so it shouldn't botheri
	him all that much.  I don't think Magic will disrupt team
	chemistry.  He'll be that extra edge every time he plays.

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dstanzi@eng.clemson.edu (daniel stanzione)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Where is ex-Knicks Kenny Walker ?
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:47:14 GMT
Reply-To: dstanzi@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.



	Actually, Kenny WAS playing in Spain, until he blew out his knee
last winter, then came home to rehab.  I haven't heard if he's going to
try to play again or not.



-- Dan Stanzione
From: max@ocf.berkeley.edu (Fude Max Chuang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Underestimating the Lakers, again
Date: 1 Oct 1992 08:07:42 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct1.061411.7342@nuscc.nus.sg> art30248@nusunix1.nus.sg (NG LING LING) writes:
>Yet, nobody has mentioned what the new coach, Berthka (sp) will do.
                                                ^^^^^^^
I think you mean Pfund.

>suggest that Magic might disrupt a team chemistry. They'd have to run

I guess the best way to minimize the disruption would be to have him come
in off the bench.  Maybe he could be a 3-point specialist or something.
Certainly it would be less disruptive than changing your starting line-
up every other game.  Plus, imagine having your first two reserve guards
coming off the bench be Magic and Peeler.  Heck, if Peeler can play,
they can relegate Scott to backup.  A backup backcourt of Scott and
Magic :)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Magic's Back
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:34:45 GMT

satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair) writes:

>Hi,

>Am I the only one that is slightly distrubed by Magic's return?? Now don't
>get me wrong I think he's one of the greatest players of all time but come
>on now, basketball is a physical sport and the likelyhood of getting cuts is
>pretty darn high.  Now how many of you would want to participate in a full
>contact sport with a person who's carrying an infectitious disease when 
>he starts bleeding???

	I've always wondered why everyone's made such a big deal about this.
	Think about it -- Magic's been in the league for over a decade now,
	and -- have U ever seen him suffer an open wound?  Sure, I've seen
	him injure a knee, or pull a hamstring -- but I've never seen him
	get anything as much as a paper cut!  In fact, just off of the top
	of my head, I have barely ever seen any open wounds at all -- sans
	the time when Isiah Thomas ran into Karl Malone's elbow... :)

	Jazzy J

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@leland.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: What the hell happend to the CAP! (Re: Magic signs $14.6M)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 05:17:08 GMT

In article <38933@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:
|
|> 
|> Well, let's look at the ages of a few current Lakers:
|> 
|> Player		born		age by end of 94-95 season
|> James Edwards	11-22-55	39
|> A. C. Green	10-04-63        31
|> Sam Perkins	 6-14-61	34
|> Byron Scott	 3-28-61        34
|> Sedale Threatt   9-10-61        33
|> James Worthy     2-27-61        34
|> 
|> And of course Magic, 8-14-59, will be 35.
|> 
|> By '94-'95, many of these guys will be retired, or getting up and
|> down the court with canes.  If the Lakers can't sign draft picks or
|> free agents to replace or spell them, that's a pretty significant
|> problem.

You are correct that signing anybody, free agent or rookie during the
year that Magic makes his $14 million will be nearly impossible.
As one NBA GM recently said, if your team goes over the salary cap,
you had better really like the team that you have.  

The Lakers were really smart to pay Magic in one big lump sum.  They 
will also pay him $2.5 million per year each of the next succeeding years.
If they had strung out this payment over several years, their salary cap
numbers would have been affected for all those years.  Now their team
salary will really be out of kilter for one year.  They can probably
still sign people then by heavily weighting their salaries in later years.
When a team is over the cap, they can only offer the NBA minimum of
$140,000 to free agents and rookies.

|> 
|> A frightening thought just occurred to me:  if Magic plays two more
|> seasons and then retires (for real) before the 94-95 season, does
|> this give the Lakers a $7.3 million exception that they can use to
|> go out and sign, say, four players at $1.825 million each?  Could
|> this be the gaping loophole in salary cap rules that West and Buss
|> have discovered?

No, the Lakers cannot do this.  Let's say that Magic does retire before
the end of the 94-95 season.  This will allow the Lakers to reduce the
salary applied against the cap by half of his salary, or $7.3 million
as you point out.  However, the Lakers will only have available any
money left under the cap to sign free agents or rookies.  Let's take
a couple of examples.   If the Laker team salary is $25 million, and Magic
retires, then the effective team salary for cap purposes is $17.7 million.
This year's NBA salary cap is $14 million, next year it will be $15 million.
If the cap stays at $15 million for the 94-95 season, the Lakers will
only be able to offer the league mimimum salary to any potential free
agents or draftees.  If the salary cap that year is $18 million, they
will have a maximum of $300,000 to sign rookies or free agents.  

					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What the hell happend to the CAP! (Re: Magic signs $14.6M)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:32:05 GMT
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <1ano4eINNa7q@ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu> goedde@ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu (Chris Goedde) writes:
>
>Ancient history! (If true, I'm not aware of this, and would be
>interested in hearing more.)  The NBA and its financing are vastly
>different today than they were then.

Which is exactly why Anthony's point is a valid one.  The term is
"return on investment".  Before say, the early 80's, it was not worth
it for many clubs to pay huge salarys to star players.  There was
no way the'd ever get that money back, so what you might consider
"stupid GM decisions"  were in fact probably "economic GM decisions".
It's not worth it to keep this guy on my team.  Huge TV contracts
with the league completely changed that.

>So, I still don't
>believe that the cap leads to parity by limiting free agency.  It does
>it by restricting trades, and thereby protecting the stupid.

But now, as you say, the NBA's financial situation is "vastly different".
Before a team in a small market might give up a star, since it is not
economically a good idea to pay him huge amount of money (ROI).  That
type of situation does not exist today and the salary cap helps to
keep it that way.  What happens if the Lakers sign their own contract
with CBS then go and get the entire Dream Team at $14.5M each?  Great
move right and it's great for the Lakers - but how good is it for the
NBA anbd basketball?  You have to weigh the benefits of the individual
teams with the needs of the entire NBA.  The league has to come first.
--
Harry Koehnemann
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: Shaquille/Sampson
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:26:33 GMT

In article <BvnpBI.58@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>
>	Interesting to note -- after that 2nd season of 22.1 ppg, Sampson's
>	scoring average dropped every season he played after that.
>
>	Trivia -- can someone name (without looking) the a player who played
>	more than 8 years, and his scoring averaged dropped every year from
>	his rookie season?

Good question.  Unfortunately, I have no clue.  I would guess Bill Cartwright,
since his rookie year was best and ever since, everything has come spiralling
down.  Side note trivia: who's the guy who's increased his scoring average
every year (except for last I think).
From: grubin@virga.ucar.edu (Rick Grubin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Shaquille/Sampson
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:21:50 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Distribution: na
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO



kbowers@esrc1.uucp (Ken Bowers) writes:
>Everyone has question marks coming out of college. Here is a list for
>centers:
>Moses Malone: no college prep, (believe it or not) too thin

Believe it.  Did you ever see Malone play in the ABA's last days, or
even see pictures of him playing with the Spirits of St. Louis?  He
was a stick.  As an 18-year-old from Virginia, Moses was not the hulk
he was later in his career.

--
Rick Grubin     grubin@ncar.ucar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: Shaquille/Sampson
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 12:32:48 GMT

tseng-neill@CS.YALE.EDU (Neill Tseng) writes:
>I was just thinking about Shaquille O'Neal the other day and all the hype 
>he's received.  Being from Houston, it couldn't help but remind me of all 
>the hype Sampson received when he was selected with the first pick in 1983.  
>Sampson was a chronic underachiever until injuries ruined his career, but 
>mainly because expectations were unrealistically high.  Just wondering, does 
>anyone think the same thing might happen to O'Neal, that he might be the 
>next "bust"? Also, it'd be nice if someone could compare the college stats 
>of the two.  I think that would provide for interesting perusal.

I agree that expectations were always a little too high, but to call Sampson 
a chronic underachiever until injuries ruined his career shows that you 
simply did not follow Sampson in the pros.  

As we all know (or may not know), Sampson was drafted Numero Uno by Houston 
in 1983.  During his first three seasons in the NBA, Sampson averaged 10.4 
RBG, 2.7 APG, 20.7 PPG, and shot 50.4% from the floor.  He also played in 
the All-Star Game in his first three seasons and was MVP in 1985 at 
Indianapolis.  He was NBA Rookie-of-the-year during his first season and, 
at that time during his career, could dominate a game by himself.  He was 
also an excellent defensive rebounder and outlet passer.

If it weren't for the injuries, we would likely be saying his name when 
talking of the modern-day centers, such as Ewing, Olajuwon, and Robinson.  
Compare his first 3 season stats with Olajuwon and Ewing, and he didn't 
look much like a 'chronic underachiever'...

*Sampson
Season  Games  FG%   FT%   Rebs  Asts    PPG
83-84      82 .523  .661    913   163   21.0
84-85      82 .502  .676    853   224   22.1
85-86      79 .488  .641    879   283   18.9     

*Olajuwon
Season  Games  FG%   FT%   Rebs  Asts    PPG
84-85      82 .538  .613    974   111   20.6
85-86      68 .526  .645    781   137   23.5
86-87      75 .508  .702    858   220   23.4     

*Ewing
Season  Games  FG%   FT%   Rebs  Asts    PPG
84-85      50 .474  .739    451   102   20.0
85-86      63 .503  .713    555   104   21.5
86-87      82 .555  .716    676   125   20.2     



On a side note, what the hell got into me to defend Sampson so much?

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Magic's reappearing act
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:26:53 GMT

In article <97306@bu.edu> sheyn@csa.bu.edu (Igor Sheyn) writes:

>The discussion raises the question: has anyone before Magic returned to
>NBA after an official retirement?

     Sure, Bob Cousy retired somewhere in the early or mid-60s, coached
at Boston College and then with the Cincinnatti Royals (now Sacramento
Kings).  At one point, when he was about 40, he unretired and was
player-coach for the Royals.  He played very few games, very few
minutes, and with not much effectiveness however.  
     He was coach of the Royals/KC Kings when Nate Archibald became the
only NBA player to lead the league in assists and scoring in the
same year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |
From: art30248@nusunix1.nus.sg (NG LING LING)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Magic's Back
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:08:35 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

But how much of a difference will it be if he doesn't playt away games ?
Note: if the Lakers need a clutch play down the wire...ka-boom They will
blow it, as they did often enough last season. Worse still, the rest of
the team might feel pissed that Magic will get royalty treatment because
of his HIV and unretirement status.

Just a sideline note...Bobby Fischer unretired and proved to everyone
that he should have stayed away, remained a myth and a legend. If Magic
comes back and sucks badly, it will really dismantle his reputation.

Finally, I must add that I'm a Laker fan.

Go ahead...FLAME.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sharring@cs.tamu.edu (Steven L Harrington)
Subject: Re: Rodman Trade Rumor (Here we go again!)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:49:36 GMT

In article <5859@news.duke.edu> radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu writes:
>Pete Vecsey today in McNews reported that the Worm himself met with the Pistons
>CEO last week, and it was decided that the club would try to trade him. 
>The most immediate offer is a straight-up trade with Sacramento for Wayman
>Tisdale.  I think that the Kings would certainly get the better end of this
>proposed deal.


-----------------------

I'm not so sure about who would get the better deal. While Rodman
is by far the better defender and rebounder, Tisdale's offense
is extremely good - he's nigh impossible to stop in the low post,
especially one on one. I can't think of too many players that are
better offensively with their back to the basket. 

I guess it just depends on whether a given team is searching for
O' or some big D'...

--Steve Harrington
--Texas A&M University
--And yes, my Jenks, Okla. H.S. team _did_ face Tisdale's 
  Washington, Tulsa team... and yes, he did dominate us,
  and _no_ I'm not entirely objective - thank you.
From: jcoryell@nwu.edu (John Coryell.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Street & Smith predictions
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:44:30 GMT
Organization: MI
Originator: cheading@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <BvEDBC.HE4@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>
>>I was surprised at first, but the more I think about it, the less I am
>>surprised.  They do look to have a very stong starting line-up with
>
>>PG  Bogues
>>SG  Curry
>>SF  Gill
>>PF  Johnson
>>C   Mourning
>
>	Wait... Gill at SF?  Gill's a lock at off-guard -- pen that in!
>	There's no way he's going to get any bit-minutes at small forward.
>	He's not big enough (6'4") to defend effectively there.  Can U
>	imagine him trying to defend someone like Xavier McDaniel or
>	Dominique Wilkins at that spot?  They'd post him up all day.
>
>	Besides, Curry is so effective coming off of the bench.  If he
>	starts, the Charlotte bench has no offensive firepower coming off
>	of it.  I would look to move LJ over to the small forward slot,
>	where he'd match up better on defense (plus, he'd give opposing
>	small fowards all they could handle).  I would see someone like
>	J.R. Reid or Kenny Gattison starting at PF.
>

Wait... they still have Newman, no?  Is he starting to play yet?  Any
word from those in the know on how the training camp's been going?
This is what I have through one depth:

PG   Bogues / Bennett
SG   Gill / Curry
SF   Newman / Reid (Johnson is also not big enough to defend here)
PF   Johnson / Gattison
C    Mourning / Gminski

... and the other two, I'm not sure about.  It's a good group, very
fast with the starters, much more top-heavy with the backups.

John Coryell.
From: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Magic's Back
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:53:31 GMT
Reply-To: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <BvEDGr.HLt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:

>	There's no way that the rest of the team will get pissed!  Are
>	U kidding?  This is Magic we're talking about here.  He's THE MAN.
>	He's the best player on the team -- by far.  He's a living legend.

For the most part, this is true.  But A.C. Green seemed less than thrilled
to hear the news.  He said something like "I'm neither happy nor sad.  I just
am thinking about playing"  As I recall, he was the least supportive player
last year as well.  
  One of the best things about Magic back is that it makes Randy Pfund's job
a LOT easier.  A coach on the bench and a coach on the floor.  Hopefully they
won't get in each other's way.

--Robert Clough
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tim@kudzu.viewlogic.com (Tim Foster)
Subject: Selfish
Originator: tim@kudzu
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:55:36 GMT


If you expected this article to be about Magic, you're right.

I believe that what Magic is doing is very selfish.   I continue to
have little respect for the man.  Why?  Not because of the money.  If
the Lakers are foolish enough to pay him, that's their problem.  It is
a business transaction for both parties, from which both stand to 
profit.  But because I believe he is putting himself before all the 
other players in the league.  Magic has a disease which is fatal to all
who contract it.  The way that this disease is communicated is through
blood.  Although the odds are probably pretty low, there still remains
a chance that some contact with Magic might cause blood to flow.  Teeth
can easilty break through someone's skin if hard contact is made.  That
is the nature of the game of basketball, especially in the NBA.  Anyone
who denies that this is a possibility is just fooling themselves.  If 
Magic was concerned about his peers, he would not put them in the 
situation where they are threatened.  I know most of his peers say that
they support Magic, and that's great.  But it would still be the "right"
thing to do for Magic not to risk their lives, just for his own 
happiness.



-- 

Tim Foster 
E-mail: tfoster@viewlogic.com 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro