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From: I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh)
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Subject: RE: Just Laughing at England
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:42:52 +0000







dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>tedwards@cam.nad.northrop.com (Tony Edwards) writes:

>>OK which league is better the Scotish Premier or the English Premier
>>Well since they dont play each on a regular basis, how about we compare
>>the past history in Europe lets say over the last 20 years. That should give
>>us a real idea on who has the better overall record (Does anyone have that
>>information). We could compare the number of winners each country has had
>>in the three major European Cups, This would give us a good overal picture.

>All that would tell you is who could adapt best to the European style of
>football best.
>Undoubtedly English clubs, in particular Liverpool, with a few others like
>Notts Forest Man Untd etc.
>The only Scottish club to win at European level in the last 20 years is
>Aberdeen, though I have hazy memories of Rangers winning something maybe
>20 years ago against Moscow Dynamo methinks.

Didn't Dundee United win the UEFA cup? Or did they just get to the final.

>It would be an unfair comparison anyway as English clubs were banned from
>Euro competitions for a number of years after their fans ran amock at
>Heysel and elsewhere, so there was only Scottish (and Irish, dunno about
>Welsh clubs?) in the competitions.

Welsh clubs were not banned from european competition. I one of them had 
been champions of division 1 during the English ban they would have still
been allowed to play in the european cup. As it was they had their yearly
entry into the european cup winners cup.

>>And you can not have a real battle of Britain unless it the two winners of
>>the leagues right after the season is over. Because if Leeds were the best
>>team in England they would be top now not 12th wouldnt they.

>True, and if one side one the other would inevitably yell "We wuz robbed",
>bad referee, a clear penalty, etc etc.

>>And if you want we could throw in the other countries to find out Europes
>>best league overall.

>Italy, and I don't think you'd find many disagreeing with that.

>>and then maybe the bickering will stop

>Nah!! Then we couldn't have fun when all the Usenet predictors of English
>glory get it wrong and have a "Laugh at England".
>We couldn't have that now could we?

>The trouble is that there is a streak of arrogant assumption in the English
>media that somehow England is the best football nation in the world and
>have the best leagues, or at the very least, on a par with Europe's best.
>n Scotland, we are supplied by the BBC (or EBC as Scott prefers to call it)
>and ITV, both largely English based companies and we are forever having rammed
>down our throats Sportsnight with articles on how great England are, Saint
>and Greavsie with how great England are, Grandstand and Jimmy Hill on how
>great England are, John Motson and how great England are....you get the idea?

Jimmy Hill is a pillock, he always has been and I've not met anyone down here
yet who thinks otherwise. The saint is *scottish* and whenever I've watched
him he tells us how great Scotland are, not England. Greavsie is an England
supporter through and through and he doesn't try to hide it. These two 
when balanced up provided both sides of the coin.

>They then follow it up by stuffing it full of English sports like cricket
>Badminton horse trials (ho hum), darts (yawn!), snooker (zzzzzz!) etc.

This is a pathetic attempt to slur sports which have WORLDWIDE 
participation including people from Scotland.

>I don't recall having ever seen shinty, or curling on them.
>These are networked programs intended for the consumption of Britain as a
>whole and not just England and it gets rather tiresome having this same line
>pushed at you again and again.

>This is the closest we, in Scotland, get to knowing what the English supporter
>thinks of their own team and have to conclude that this is the popular view
>amongst English supporters at large.

>Of course there are some English posters here who say the media is full of
>crap, but equally there are posters who appear to go along with it and make
>bold predictions. Therefore it gives us great delight to see England come
>a cropper as in Sweden or the Leeds Rangers game. Funny thing is, all those
>who say the media is full of crap only seem to do so AFTER England or an
>English team has not lived up to the hype. Oh well..

>If truth be told, the the English Premier *probably* is better than the
>Scottish Premier, most of the clubs in the bottom half of the Scottish Premier
>wouldn't be able to hold their own in the English Premier, but, the English
>Premier is chock full of Scots while the SCots Premier is chock full of
>English so make of that what you will.

I don't see where this argument is going. The team I follow currently live
in the English football league division 2 and people can call it crap until
the end of the earth but it wouldn't stop me following my team, no matter
which league they were in. 

The only way you could really compare the standard of football within leagues
is if those leagues were to amalgamate and produce one champion.

>Dave

Tom.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer