HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: svilen@sofia.ks.uiuc.edu (Svilen Tzonev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Have you made Bulgarian Yogurt outside Bulgaria?
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:20:51 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Arseny Nikolaev Markov writes

- some text deleted - 

> >My version of the name is Lactum Bacillus Bulgaricum - LBB.
> 
> Excuse me, Svilen but who cares 'bout your version? Don't forget that
> in your article you write a follow-up to a PROFESSIONAL molecular bio-
> logist.

- more text deleted -

> >here I may be wrong - I think the main reason the LBB is praised is  
> >because it somehow changes the cow/sheep milk sugar and makes it  
similar  
> >to the human one ).
> 
> You think... That's good but maybe you should read first on the subject.

thanks for the good advice.

- more text deleted - 

> >During the 60's and 70's LBB was very popular in Western Europe and  
> >especially in Japan. For some reason(s) it never become popular in U.S.
> 
> Svilen, I know personally the lady, Dr. Kondareva, from the Department
> of Microbiology at the Medical Academy of Sofia who made the contract
> on bulgarian yogurt with a company, a subsidiary of Coca-Cola in NY in
> 1978.

> Arseny Markov
> Virology and Oncology Lab
> Division of Biology
> Kansas State University

	Ashamed. Sorry for my ignorance.

Now Arseny, you'll maybe elucidate why / if true / Lactobacillus  
bulgaricus doesn't grow (normally or well or ... ? ) outside the region?

Did kiselo mliako become popular in US after Dr. Kondareva's cotract? 

( I talked once with a japanese girl and she knew about and liked bulg.  
k.m. in Japan.)

best reagards from:
nonprofessional, ignorant, curious, Svilen
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: About the Bulgarian Jews and the Bulgarian people
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:02:12 GMT
Reply-To: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

In article <154s7gINNcto@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
[deleted]

>All I really meant to say about Boyadjieff's book was that it is a little
>bit "rosy"

Hm, may be my fault that didn't include the non-rosy bits. There are such -
but as I told you - I couldn't post the whole book.

>light that reality.  I have no disagreement with any facts.  I DO disagree
>with you on the following:
>>
>>> in which Jews and "Bulgarians" (note
>>>how the word "Bulgarian" often does not include the Jews)
>>
>>What do you mean? When talking about ethnic and religious matters, I can't
>>see how it "includes" it.
>
>Oh?  So a Jew cannot be a Bulgarian?  I hope that is not what you are
>implying. 

Look, of course that a Jew is/was/can be a Bulgarian. And they WERE and
ARE. And they fought for Bulgaria and felt themselves Bulgarians. But as an
ethnic origin, they awlays felt as Jews. And during times of persecusions,
one has to distinguish things - how otherwise you will say - Bulgarians
were persecuted under the LDN and Bulgarians were not? Do you understand
the difference (or where you do it wrong)? And so many Bulgarian Jews I've
met are far more "Bulgarians" - in terms of love towards Bulgaria, the way
they speak about her, all the songs they sing, etc, etc, than most of the
new generation Bulgarians which I know - it's just amazing (and very pity -
for the new generation !!!).

> Can a Bulgarian only be Christian or Moslem?  Is a Jew who
>speaks Bulgarian (most Jews in Bulgaria do, you know) not a Bulgarian?

See above !!!

>The first step is to say things like "Jews and Bulgarians"; then when

It has been said so many times in the book.

>times get bad, the Gentiles can say, "What are these Jews doing here?

It was imported influence - not the "Gentiles" said but imported ethnic
intolerance which never get roots in Bulgaria. I remember an interesting
episode which happened in Triavna and I'll tell it if there is an interest
for it.

>They aren't Bulgarians!  Let's treat them like the second class citizens
>they really are!"

??? I'm speechless. If you want to write a book on your own, with your
conclussions - please do. If you tell me that I pick the wrong paragraphs
only - I can agree, but I really can't understand neither your point, nor
what are you after.


>Brian Sutin


Luben
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bulgaria:1066 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:158
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Have you made Bulgarian Yogurt outside Bulgaria?
From: lihouba@iris.weizmann.ac.il (Christo Houbaviy)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:06:45 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computing Centre

In article <5373@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk> ehganm2@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Nikolay Mehandjiev) writes:
>Have you made Bulgarian Yogurt outside Bulgaria?
>
>
>If yes, how? And how successful?
>
>I am sure that the "Lactobactericus Bulgaricus" does not know about
>language or state boundaries. Why it is said that it can live, grow
>and multiply only on Bulgarian soil?

Actually the name of the germ is Lactobacillus bulgaricus. As far as I know the
problem is that the above species can not be grown stably in culture (even in
Bulgaria) not that it cannot grow outside of Bulgarian territory. I have even
heard that inoculum (yogurt that is) is being exported so that the actual
product can be made elsewhere. Therefore the recipe that you suggest should
work in principle.

[Stuff deleted]

>Well, now you can guess one of the things I miss from Bulgaria.

[Stuff deleted]

Why there is plenty of other things like Bulgarian cheese and lukanka. By the
way as far as I know Bacillus lukankus can be grown anywhere in the world :-).
Only I can't remember the exact recipe although I think that the proportion was
one pig per one cow.:-)
Apart from that skiing at Bansko, climbing Vihren, going to Nessebar - plenty
of things I can't have here.

>Nikolay Mehandjiev

Christo Houbaviy
Department of Molecular Genetics and Virology
The Weizmann Institute of Science
Rehovot, Israel

bitnet: lihouba@weizmann
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: daniel@danbo.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Subject: Re: Birthrate in BG about to rise!
Organization: Digital Systems
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:34:00 GMT

svilen@sofia.ks.uiuc.edu (Svilen Tzonev) writes:
: Luben Boyanov writes
: > In article <1992Jul26.060741.14750@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>  
: lihouba@iris.weizmann.ac.il (Christo Houbaviy) writes:
: > 
: > >makes 5.5 condoms/day which is more than enough.
: > 
: > According to some old jokes I remember, one can say "Just enough to  
: survive
: > without a risk of contracting AIDS" :-)
: 
: I don't know about England or Israel but here in the middle of the Midwest
: "such kind of jokes" could be easily declared very SEXIST. ;-)

And then one wonders why Bulgarians are considered sex-maniacs. :)

Daniel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: peter@itnux2.cineca.it (Peter Yovchev)
Subject: Re: Er Golyam
Keywords: alphabet, er golyam
Organization: Laboratorio di Fisica Computazionale, INFM. Trento Italia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:36:40 GMT

dim2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alexander Dimitrov) writes:

   [deleted]

>>>>The alphabet is as follow:
>>>With my suggestions to the right 

[deleted]


>Well, I have missed that. But of course i-kratko has long been denoted
>with 'j', so we can just continue the case. 
>Therefore: Pyrvomaj. Nice?


>>
>>>>y -Er malqk in the 'consonant-er malqk-o' combination
>>
>>Poor letter we use it for the third time.

>I already explainde in my previous post that the use of 'y' from both
>er-malyk and er-golqm won't lead to confusion, since er-malyk is used
>only along with 'o'.

And you were wrong:

"syob]avam","syomga"

>>
>>>>yu
>>>>ya	- q
>>
>>
>>It is not bad to have an exotic ideas for the alphabet but
>>don't forget that the alphabet is a set of letters not of
>>signs like parentheses,slashes etc.

>I tend to disagree with that. An alphabet is a set of signs, through
>which statements can be expressed. Anything that is convenient will
>do, IMHO. I can as well use chineese pictograms for this purpose, but
>that will be hardly labeled convenient ( for the bulgarian language).
>So I use [ and ] instead :-)

I completely disagree. An 'alphabet' is a set of signs, not but of
lexical units in the formal language theory only.
On the semiothic point of view a trafic sign set is also an alphabet.
But in the natural language theory we distinct letters-the formal re
presentation of sounds or phonemes and signs-for lexical,syntax and
prosadic relation's representation.
So we can use a combination of two letters /something normal for
all languages/ for representing one sound /or phoneme/ as 'sh',
'yu','ya' . It is match more readable then using a 'chineese
pictograms' like '[',']' etc.

>>And of cource it is impossible to have an alphabet with contradictions.

>What reminds me of the Russian way of spelling. They have this e" (e
>with double dots), which is a soft e, but they don't write it, using
>ordinary e instead. The analogy is quite obvious. Any comments?

Of cource the russian alphabet is not perfect.
It is made /simplified from the old one used in tsar's Russia/
by the comunist 'language scientists'. What you expect?

>>All the best
>>
>>Peter Yovchev

>Na sluka
>Sasho

Ciao

Peter


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: stanchev@brahms.udel.edu (Gueorgui Stantchev)
Subject: Re: Have you made Bulgarian Yogurt outside Bulgaria?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:43:32 GMT

In article <Bs0sqq.Gq2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> svilen@sofia.ks.uiuc.edu (Svilen Tzonev) writes:
[deleted]

>BTW, if you watched the opening of the Olympics, did you notice what   
>Bulgaria is famous with in the sports arena? It wasn't kiselo mliako...
>The comment of the NBC speaker was "home of the weight lifting ... " and  
>later "... use of steroids ...". :-( 

I think that the problem here is not what Bulgaria is famous for, but what 
American journalists are notorious for.  If you watched the Opening Ceremony
on NBC, did you hear them say a good word for any of the other teams showing up
in the Parade of Nations.  Can you hear them now in the competion days say a 
praising word for the other teams winning medals /if you can watch at all some-
body else winning medals but Americans./ I don't mean that everybody is flawless
but all in all there are other fields for propaganda, not the Olympics.  
At this point I would gladly continue this discussion on a glass of 'slivova'
elsewhere but on the net. 

Anyway, my point is that we should be more concerned what we really are but not 
how we are presented in the eyes of the others.  

Hope this will not incur such a disasterous argument as the innocent issue of
Lacto...whatever.

Vsichko naj-.
George Stanchev (Zhoro)
-----------------------
stanchev@brahms.udel.edu
From: lb@ra.cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Can one buy 'sudjuk' outside BG? Favourite cuisine?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:02:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

Dear all,

Reading your thoughts on the yogurt ('kiselo mliako'), which I never liked
(with the exception of the one I used eat in Sliven for 2 years :-( ) I
decided to ask, if anybody there has tasted/seen something like "sudjuk"?
Together with the white cheese, this is something I miss from the Bulgarian
food. But I've never seen anything similar here - in England (I'm talking
about the "podkova" type of 'lukanka', or 'sudjuk'). Has anybody there
seen/tasted such thing?

Best regards

Luben


PS. I'm also curious to ask you all what kind of non-Bulgarian cuisine do
you like, and what is your experience with other people liking (or not)
the Bulgarian cuisine? 

Our (my and my wife's) favourite cuisine is the Chineese.
It seems that the British like a lot Bulgarian food, and also our rakia (not
mentioning the Bulgarian wine, which is well known, and very popular here).
From: ANTHC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Newspapers in NYC
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:54:28 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Hi:
   Someone was interested in the Bulgarian newspapers available in NYC.
I don't know any news stand selling Bulgarian newspapers right now.
In 1991 for a short time "Democracia" was available, but because of the
high price ($1 an issue) nobody was buying it.  Now a beautifuly designed
"Nova Macedonia" came on the news stands, but the same stupid policy -
$2 an issue.  Despite the good paper, color and resemblance with "US Today"
again no body is buying "Nova Macedonia".
   I wonder why the the JES Air that flies 3 times a week to NYC is not
bringing old newspapers from Bulgaria.  They can have here the old American
newspapers for no money because in NYC nobody recycle newspapers.  I am sure
that the outdated American newspapers and magazines will have a good market
in Bulgaria.  So the Bulgarian newpapers in USA can be more afordable.
The Albanians, the Rumanians, the Yugoslavians are doing the same thing and
their newspapers are always available on the central news stand for foreign
newspapers on 42nd Street.
From: haralaag@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Bulgarian Yogurt
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:10:50 EST
Distribution: world ,world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article stanchev@brahms.udel.edu (Gueorgui Stantchev) writes:
> 
> In his article of July 20, Nikolay Mehandjiev expresses his nostalgy for
> Bulgarian yogurt, which obviously is an essential part of this Bulgarian
> Dream that I suppose all of us living abroad keep in our hearts. Fortunately
> with regards to yogurt the situation is not so desperate as long as one can
> find very good substitutes in certain grocery stores in U.S.  To start with
> I would mention the cheapest brand name I have encountered - Pathmark Yogurt,
> sold apparently in all Pathmark stores. Some other nice brand names I can
> recall now are Dannon Yo. and Brown Farm Yo. , which may be found in almost
> every big supermarket.  

Well as I see the situation with the yogurt is better in the Delaware than in
the Cincinnati (we have only the Dannon and one more brand which strange enough
are more expensive than the sour cream - "smetana")

> 
> So enough with my gourmet adventures.  What is important with regard to the
> question about Lactobactericus Bulgaricus is that probably it is not the only
> bacteria capable of producing yogurt, or if it is then it obviously have been  
> imported in the States or elsewhere. 

I am not biologist, but I remember that I readed some time ago that when you
take Lactobactericus B. out of the Bulgarian region after a few cicles of
making of yogurt the taste of the product became different and if you want the
original taste you must to start again with original stam. (for more clear
explanation lets biologist in cyberspace come to help  8-)
Anyway with all this brands of yogurt if you add enough cucumbers, wallnuts
(orehi) and a little garlic and olive oil the result is wonderfull - especially
in those hot and humid days in Ohio.

> Unfortunately I haven't encountered any
> form of Bulgarian cheese around /some similar looking American products have
> nothing to do with it/, so I dare launch the hypothesis that it is probably
> cheese that requires some magic bacteria which may not be able to live outside
> Bulgaria and the Balkan Penninsula.  And I'd like to contribute to Luben's
> 'zhalba za Bulgaria' with the image of a thick slice of 'selski hljab' and a
> piece of 'mandradjijsko sirene' sprayed with  some 'merudijka'. And, I forgot,
> a tiny slice of 'luchetz'.

Well there is a few special shops in Cincinnati with imported feta cheese from
Bulgaria and Greece (biyalo sirene) and kashkaval from Bulgaria and Yugoslavia
(labels are still old...), but on the price of $5/lb  I prefer to take a few
pork chops and with the help of 'luchetz' and a few peppers to make something
more special on 'shish'.... A, and of course with well cooled wine...

> 
> Cheers,
> George Stanchev (Zhoro)
> -----------------------
> Univ. of Delaware
> e-mail stanchev@brahms.udel.edu
>   

Regards (and 'dobyr apetit')
	Alex Haralampiev - Sasho
	Univ. of Cincinnati
From: nexus@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Arseny Nikolaev Markov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Er Golyam
Date: 22 Jul 1992 23:29:13 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

<IO11412@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>Dobar den,
>Dobawr den,
>Dobwr den,
>Dobyr den,
>Dobxr den,

>Any ideas?

>Drago
>----------------
>Univ. of ME
>Comp. Sci. Dept.
>----------------

Dobqr den!, as well.

arseny
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: About the Bulgarian Jews and the Bulgarian people
Keywords: Bulgarian Jews, Macedonian and Thracian Jews, King Boris III
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:51:09 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

In article <5462@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lb@ra.cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:
>
>Hello everybody,
>
>on the the Bulgarian Jews. I'm quoting Christo Boyadjieff and his book
>"Saving the Bulgarian Jews in World War II". The author has used
>over 60 titles in his bibliography and has emphasised the role of the
>Bulgarian people, and the spirit of the country, concerning this noble act.

Although I have no reason from my reading to disagree with any of the raw
facts in Boyadjieff's book, I think his book suffers a strong influence from
the post-WWII communist revisionism, in which Jews and "Bulgarians" (note
how the word "Bulgarian" often does not include the Jews) fight side by side
against the German aggressor.  Bullshit.

Please get me right -- the unique thing about Bulgaria is that it is one of
the few geographical areas of Europe not bathed in Jewish blood.  This does
not make Bulgaria into a paradise.  Bulgaria tried to treat the Jews like
shit often enough, just like everyone else -- just not as badly.

Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Need suggestions
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:06:33 GMT
Reply-To: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

In article <1992Jul24.143511.19474@pixel.kodak.com> gls@ssd.kodak.com (Gary Simonds 253-1980) writes:
>
>In mid August, my wife and I will have the pleasure of visiting
>Bulgaria. We will be near the city of Ruse in some of the local
>villages.

[deleted]

>We would like to properly show our appreciation to the families
>that are hosting us. Could you suggest some ideas for gifts or 
>actions that would be appropriate.

>Since we really don't know the culture well, any tips on
>courtesy or even things not to do will be appreciated.

I'm not sure about some more recent changes in culture, but one thing which
was different in Bulgaria in the past was that receiving money as a gift (a
very practical and "normal" in many Western countries) was not considered
as very nice - people would normally refuse the money. But if you
understand what they want to have (during informal talk) and you can get it
from somewhere around (in case it's in the fin. range you want to make the
present), the people will be very happy. People are very interested in what
other countries look like (including shops, streets, building, nature -
everything). So - if you can prepare a way to present everything you see
around you (incl. "little' things) in America - with some little "examples"
- this may be very interesting for your hosts. At least I think so.

>We are also visiting several orphanages while in Bulgaria. We plan
>to bring gifts for the children (sweets, coloring and picture books,
>crayons,..?) and for the orpanage (non-perscrition medical
>supplies,..?). Any other suggestions?

That will be great - you're doing a very human job indeed. Thank you.

I wish you a nice time

>Gary Simonds

Luben
From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Electronic Matchmaker
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:45:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Women, I am about to launch a free electronic matching service on 
Usenet.  Unfortunately, more guys than gals have expressed an 
interest so far.  If you would like to see the fourth draft of my 
questionnaire so we can alter it to also fit women's needs as well as 
men's, either send me mail or look at the copy I posted in 
alt.personals.
 
This service is serious and I already have 119 men and 86 women signed
up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected and
programmers are being lined up for the construction of the listserver.
 
I should point out that this questionnaire really, really, really, 
needs some more input on CULTURES.  I need some questions to make sure
that matches are compatible culturally.
 
                                                            Eric Klien
From: nexus@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Arseny Nikolaev Markov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: About The Bulgarian Jews
Date: 29 Jul 1992 21:16:58 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:


>I would just like to point out that it you came out saying such things in
>the US, you would be immediately labeled as a Nazi or a Klansman.  If you
>were a politician, you would be thrown from office.  To call the people
>whose ancestors were forced by the Turks to convert to Islam (or
>voluntarily converted) to be no longer Bulgarian is to rudely deprive them
>of their culture.  You have torn Bulgarian citizenship away from Jews, some
>of whose families who have lived in Bulgaria for over 1500 years.

>Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu

I believe you, Brian. People in the U.S. of A. like labels. And why not-
it's a free-market economy and free-label politics. Don't get me wrong,
please. No offense meant. I would just like to clarify the mistake you
make, labelling Christo as a Klansman or a Nazi. "Saying such things in
the US...", that's the whole difference, Brian. The US was built on the
UNITY principle. It has been primarily the home for outcasts from all
over the world. People needed the sence of national identity and they
still do. That's why american citizenship means so much for an American.
And there is nothing wrong with it. What's the logo of the US --
"E pluribus unum", A multiple unity, isn't it? Now try to get out of
the US for a while(I know it's difficult) and be in Bulgaria, where
ironically the Bulgarian citizenship doesn't mean anything, because of
the bitter history of this country, a cross-road for invaders, where
national identity has been suppressed and the people enslaved and
deprived of a citizens selfconsciousness. And I'm not talking of the
perversions of the communist regime on the last subject... One little
example only, how can you feel "a citizen" and be proud of it, when
about a few years ago as a Bulgarian you were not allowed to show
your nose out of the "fatherland"... So, Brian the concept of ethnical
identity has been the only force, holding communities together in histo-
rical prospective and not the concept of "Bulgarian citizenship".
That's why you can talk of "Bulgarian Jews" and "Bulgarian Turks"
without sounding derogatory or for short, just "Jews" and "Turks".
These people still keep their ethinc roots and there's not a political
"unity" idea that can give them the label "Bulgarians". As Christo said,
there was such an "idea" introduced from the communist government to
forcefully change the ethnic identity of the Turks living in Bulgaria.
So, these are quite different historical backgrounds, Brian and thinking
as an American won't help you to understand the matter.

Just to make the contrast bolder, can you say that you know your ethnic
roots, Brian?


Arseny Markov                  nexus@ksuvm.ksu.edu
                               nexus@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Division of Biology
Kansas State University
Manhattan KS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria