HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Objectivity, its Objectifying....
Keywords: abortion, slavery, history, atrocity
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:34:55 GMT

knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
] In article <pizefb7@Unify.Com> sean@Unify.com (Sean P. Curley) writes:
] >
] >It is deisnged to draw in the reader without mentioning abortion (since 
] >pro-abortionists are often turned away by the mere mention of anything
] >negative about abortion), and then to relate abortion to some atrocities
] >of the past.
] 
] 
] Gee, you're so objective that I can hardly wait to read your post.

David,

How many times do we have to tell you that there 
are all sorts of things that ProAborts are Not
willing to face unless there is a Lot of Mentioning
about how Had Abortion been a viable alternative
then Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin would NOT
have Been able to Murder Millions and Millions
of Born Persons, as they would never have been
Born, and would have trickled past the pages 
of history as little more than a missed period.

BUT are you willing to FACE that HORRID TRUTH!

Had it not been for the Hideous Influences of 
a Frivilous Older Genertion then Youngsters like
charles d' gaul and Liddell Hart would have 
postively influenced the development of armoured
formations in france and britain and provided 
and effective defense against the Armoured
Fist of Nazi BlitzKrieg!!!!! More Porof that
anyone who is too OLD must be put out of 
their misery!!!!

How Long are you ProAborts Going to blithely
go along forgetting the OBVIOUS OBJECTIVE FACTS
of History and their CONSEQUENCES!!!!!


ciao
drieux

ps: Hum... Maybe that was NOT what Sean was looking at??????



-- 
If I have Told You Once, I've Told You a Thousand Times:
To Keep Good Girls From Going Bad,
Put them back in the Refrigerator.
This Also Works for Stale NFS Handles.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: dyer@marina.asd.sgi.com (Dyer Crouch)
Subject: Pro-Choice Event
Keywords: event, walk, abortion
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA
Distribution: world
 From: dyer@marina.asd.sgi.com (Dyer Crouch)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:57:47 GMT

** If this is a duplicate, sorry I had trouble posting. **




THE PRO-CHOICE COALITION OF SANTA CLARA COUNTY (CA.)
WILL BE PUTTING ON THE FOLLOWING:

THE 4TH ANNUAL  (drum roll.......)

**************************************************

     >>>>>>     WALK FOR CHOICE!       <<<<<<

**************************************************

EXPRESS YOUR OUTRAGE OVER THE EROSION OF OUR
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS!!!!!!

             > 5K Walk and Rally <
    > Celebrity Speakers and Entertainment <


*WHAT IS THIS COALITION?

We are a coalition of Pro-Choice groups dedicated
to keeping abortion acessible, safe and legal.
Some of our member groups are:
The Democratic Central Committee / ACLU /
Catholics For Choice / Republicans For Choice /
Planned Parenthood / Santa Clara Womens Community
Clinic / and more. We have about twenty seven
membership orginizations.


*WHY?

We raise money each year to cover our expenses as
well as help others in the pro-choice community.
For instance, we give financal aid to member
orginizations staging protests over anti-choice
descisions. We sent $1000.00 to the Redding, (CA.)
Feminist Women's Health Center after they suffered
another fire at the hands of arsonists. We sponsor
events such as the "Religion, Abortion, Politics
Fourum" where members of various faiths are
invited to discuss thier views on abortion.


*WHEN?

****** SUNDAY, October 25 / Rain or Shine! ******


WHERE?

***** Plaza Park (In front of the Fairmont) *****
***** Market and San Fernando in downtown  *****
***** San Jose. *****


################################################

 INTERESTED IN VOLUNTEERING OR WOULD LIKE MORE
 INFORMATION???  CONTACT ME:
 E-MAIL:  dyer@asd.sgi.com

 Please indicate the following:

 A. I would like to Volunteer for helping with
    the walk.

 B. I would like a "Walk Packet" including more
    information, as well a sponsor sheet.

 C. I would like to be contacted for more
    information.

You can include name, address, phone, and
E-mail address if possible. If you do not feel
comfortable with some of the above info, please
send enough info so someone can contact you, or
send information.

 Thanks, dyer.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 1 Sep 1992 15:44:11 CDT
From: Chi-Lan Vu <U19188@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: QUESTION about abortion


Hi all,

I have a question

Can the government forbid abortions on the ground that they are morally

wrong or bad for society?  Why? Why not?

Chi-Lan
Xref: sparky alt.abortion.inequity:3492 talk.abortion:34899
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Just Some Thoughts on the Subject
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:23:55 GMT
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Organization: SGI TechPubs


In article <1992Sep3.223424.1123@news.yale.edu>, Damian X. writes:
|Is a woman's right to "control her own body" more important
|than a child's right to exist?  No.  Life is life, and murder
|(the ending of life) is wrong according to the morals of the
|majority of this country.

Since when has the majority of this country been vegetarian?
Since when has the majority of this country been against the
death penalty for certain crimes?  Since when has the majority
of this country been conscientious objectors & pacifists who
refuse military service?

"Life" is not "life".  We as a society value some "life" more
than other "life".  We don't value the lives of animals,
some criminals, our enemies at war, and fetuses.  How is
this surprising or unusual?

|Should we legislate this morality?  Frankly, I don't see it
|having a terribly significant impact on the number of
|abortions.  Soon RU-486 will be available in the United States.
|When it is, morality will be the responsibility of the
|individual.  Not that it's not the individual's responsibility
|now - it's just that lately a lot of people are not taking
|responsibility for their own actions (prime examples: gov't.
|spending & abortion).

I fail to see how obtaining an abortion is not taking
responsibility for one's actions.

|Maybe pre-sixties morality has some beneficial aspects, eh?

You mean, just as much sexual activity, plus hypocrisy and a
double standard that punished women for sexual activity but
expected it of men?  No thanks.  I'll take honesty any day.

---
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com	C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"She knew not how to reconcile two such very different accounts of the 
same thing; for she had not been brought up [...] to know to how many 
idle assertions and impudent falsehoods the excess of vanity will 
lead." --Jane Austen
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: killing
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:43:37 GMT
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

Gorden posts
**How do you kill a refigerater?

With an M.16 or any other gun. If you screw up the insides (and outsides
for that mater) so that it is beyound repaer you have esentaly killed it.
You have stoped it from working rather efectively just as if it stops working
and is beyound repaer it has died. non-organic machines can be killed and
can die every bit as much as organic machines (like us). For those who wish
to argue the organic machine bit let me explane. We have blue prints (DNA).
we are constructed out of proteins and we preform functions. ie we manipulat
tools, we walk, ectra.

ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: stumic cell
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:31:15 GMT

In article <1684FD3E1.M21433@mwvm.mitre.org> M21433@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.080754.5488@news.iastate.edu>
>txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
> 
>Why can't you spell correctly?  Your argument is lost amidst your terrible
>grammer and spelling errors.  It is a jumble of nonsense.  I can't follow
 ^^^^^^^

Oooooh, ouch.


>whether you are arguing for or against the abortion issue.


Agreed, it is impressive that a person can know enough about computers to 
participate in a net group discussion and still not be able to spell stomach.

On the other hand, much of what she is saying is correct (factual etc, see 
where she knows more about genetic code than Mr. Chaney below) and heck,
everyone makes spelling errors, right?  ;-)


> 
> 
>>all cells in an oganisum have 100% of the genetic code for that organisum.
>>this fact is what makes cloning posable. anamals tend to be complex enufe
>>that once certin cells have diferentiated the genetic codes for other
>>types of tishue structurs arnt used. Stumic cells are concidered to be
>>the best bet for human cloning as they are the most flexable of our
>>tisues. red and white blood cells are made by the marro inside our bones
>>marro cells are not blood cells and reproduce themselves as well. blood
>>cells are incapable of reproducing themselves. also a cell does not have
>>to have a coding to be twins. a scietist can take a zygote in its
>>early stages and force it to split. that zygote did not have a pre-disposition
>>to be two people whin it started out yet do to the scientist it now will be.
>>that same zygote can be combined with another to make a single indevidual.
>>this has been preformed on mice. the also injectied a the zygote a white
>>mouse with cancer cell. the cancer cells became paret of the mouse. as
>>they were not albino cells the showed up as black pachis on the mouse.
>>now how miny indeviduals are in the formentioned cassis?
>>
>>ELF-KIN


-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: grape in throat
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:00:45 GMT

Larry Margolis writes
**So if she feeds you a grape, and it gits lodged in your throat, getting
**it out should be a joint decision.

This is a *REAL* bad analigy. If you git a grape lodged in your throat it
is usualy a goint decision to git it out. Some one is going to have to
decided to give you the hymlic manuver for you to git that grape out as
you are lable to be passing out shortly from asfixeation. grapes have
a tendincy to be large enufe to compleatly block of your airway.


ELF-KIN spreading wisdome
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: what the bible says
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 03:05:15 GMT

one of the interesting things about the bible is that it can be ligitamitly
used to argue any point. the bible meens difrint things to difrint people.
there are as miny difrint translations/understandings/meanings of the bible
as there are people who read the bible. it doesnt even have to have any
meaning to its reader. 

Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: idqm400@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: companies supporting abortion
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:21:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: indyvax.iupui.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I would like a list of companies that support abortion rights
and a list of companies that are anti-abortion.

Can anyone send me a list?  Thanks.

Dale  (IDQM400 at INDYCMS.iupui.edu) 
                                                         
 D

Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: stumic cell
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:06:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.080754.5488@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>all cells in an oganisum have 100% of the genetic code for that organisum.

Red blood cells don't.  Neither do immune system cells, necessarily,
due to rearrangements, deletions, and other modifications of the
chromosomes.  I don't know of any study which conclusively shows 
that such rearrangements and deletions don't occur in other cells.

(There is no reason a priori to believe they shouldn't.  Clearly, the
mutations that changed "organism" to "oganisum" and "organisum" did
not prevent your article from being read, but they are hardly the
foundation for rebuilding a dictionary of English, for example.)

>this fact is what makes cloning posable

No, the preservation of +some+ cells (enough to permit "undifferentiation")
enables cloning.  

> ... also a cell does not have
>to have a coding to be twins. a scietist can take a zygote in its 
>early stages and force it to split. 
...
>now how miny indeviduals are in the formentioned cassis?

Is this a topic for talk.abortion, or are you suggesting that
the failure to divide zygotes manually (or to clone)
is an inequity to the "potential" individuals?  
Why did you post this here?

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Observations
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:39:26 GMT

perez@mgr.hjf.org (Charles Perez) writes:
> serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:

>> Let's face it folks, we have sex organs in order to reproduce.
>> They are not there as a toy.

> In other words, we have no right to have sex for pleasure.

I understand that Mr. Perez is being sarcastic, but let's just
expand on this a little bit...

We have legs in order to move around.  They are not there as a toy.
In other words, we have no right to dance or ride a bike for pleasure.

We have hands in order to manipulate objects.  They are not there as a toy.
In other words, we have no right to create sculpture or post on the Usenet
for pleasure.

We have brains to regulate autonomous processes.  They are not there as a toy.
In other words, we have no right to dream or visualize for pleasure.

Do I have that right?

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
"No I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."  --  George Bush
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: Abortion in historical comparison
Keywords: abortion, slavery, history, atrocity
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:44:30 GMT

In article <pizefb7@Unify.Com> sean@Unify.com (Sean P. Curley) writes:
>
>It is deisnged to draw in the reader without mentioning abortion (since 
>pro-abortionists are often turned away by the mere mention of anything
>negative about abortion), and then to relate abortion to some atrocities
>of the past.


Gee, you're so objective that I can hardly wait to read your post.




-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: his choice also
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:17:07 GMT

why shouldnt he have a say in the wellfair of that f/e/f after it is conceved
it sonds like anne and several uthers her who argue that by denieing legal
abortions one is helping to denie women equal right feal that any place
were women have lower rights there rights should be incresed but in places 
were they have greater rights things should be left allown. equal rights
means that men and women have equal say in every thing,equal pay in 
every thing and equal imployment in everything. that meens that he should
have as much of a say in the well fair of that z/e/f that he already has
had as much of say and part in creating that she has had. If you want to
have equal rights all the way you have to take all the aspects of it even
the ones that you dont like.

ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: Damian X. 
Subject: Just Some Thoughts on the Subject
Followup-To: alt.abortion.inequity
Organization: Public Macs, Academic Computing, Yale University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:34:24 GMT


	Hello. Chew on this:
			  Is a woman's right to "control her own body" more important than a
child's right to exist?  No.  Life is life, and murder (the ending of life)
is wrong according to the morals of the majority of this country.

						Should we legislate this morality?  Frankly, I don't see it having a
terribly significant impact on the number of abortions.  Soon RU-486 will
be available in the United States.  When it is, morality will be the
responsibility of the individual.  Not that it's not the individual's
responsibility now - it's just that lately a lot of people are not taking
responsibility for their own actions (prime examples: gov't. spending &
abortion).

      Maybe pre-sixties morality has some beneficial aspects, eh?

comments, anyone? 
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: alt.abortion.inequity
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:58:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.120741.1@uncavx.unca.edu> bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu writes:
>When discussion of the question whether one should destroy a human being in the
>stage of gestation reaches the point where the protagonists simply assert their
>systems of belief, must one not inquire regarding the bases of the assurance of
>the correctness of this or that system of belief?  Then why not do so and move
>to the appropriate heading, or rubric, with clear signals of that intent?  A
>personal note: Bill Thurman has often asked regarding the above-mentioned
>destruction, Would not almost all arguments presented to justify it also tend
>to justify destroying the same human being after gestation?


You have ignored a crucial difference between that which is a 'human being'
at different stages of development. This is the classical 'problem'.

You would not call a sperm and egg sitting next to each other a human being.

Many *do* call a sperm in the process of entering an egg a human being.
 
Still more will call a fetus with a myelinated brain a human being.

Lastly, all agree that a born baby (with a myelinated brain( is a human being.

Let's not get dogged down with terminology; If you want to call that thing
a person and not a human being, fine.  I don't want to waste time arguing
if the DNA in the fetus makes it a human or monkey or anything like that.


Seeing as how a fetus ,*before* myelination at least begins, doesn't have
a functioning brain, it *cannot* by any stretch of the imagination, be
a person.  You must agree that a brain that functions is required to 
support the existence of a person.


-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:20:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.145443.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jfinn@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.144121.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jfinn@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>> In article <1992Aug14.170115.2124@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>>> In article <1992Aug13.051846.29948@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws) writes:
>>>>
>>>>In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
>>>>on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
>>>> for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
>>>>certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
>>>> ABA membership. I urge all lawyers who oppose abortion to do
>>>> likewise.
>>> 
>>> Good, there are too many barred lawyers anyway.  I don't mind if a bunch of 'em 
>>> commit career-suicide.
>>   
>Query: In what way would this be career suicide? 


Ask a lawyer how far he gets without being a member of the ABA.

-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: the father
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:24:11 GMT

to Andrew Hackared

It is evedent that you have no chidren if you can not beleave that the
father is efected by the mothers decision to abort. I have a freand who
was told by a woman that she was pregnit with his child. even though he
was not sure that he was ready to be a father it hurt him a great deal 
later on whin she told him that she had lost the child. He had all ready
picked out a name for this child should it be a boy. What hurt even more
was whin he found out that it had been a ruse, that she had not been pregnit
to begin with. By the way I feal that the person who wants the child is the
one whose decision should be paramont, there is no reasion that a child that 
is wanted should be aborted.


ELF-KIN	a mind is a terable thing to tast!
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: alt.abortion.inequity
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:07:41 -0500
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: bthurman

When discussion of the question whether one should destroy a human being in the
stage of gestation reaches the point where the protagonists simply assert their
systems of belief, must one not inquire regarding the bases of the assurance of
the correctness of this or that system of belief?  Then why not do so and move
to the appropriate heading, or rubric, with clear signals of that intent?  A
personal note: Bill Thurman has often asked regarding the above-mentioned
destruction, Would not almost all arguments presented to justify it also tend
to justify destroying the same human being after gestation?
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:55:10 GMT

In article <jf.24@pacnet.wesleyan.edu> jf@pacnet.wesleyan.edu (JOHN FINN) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.212049.10340@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>
>>Ask a lawyer how far he gets without being a member of the ABA.
>
>Membership in ABA is thoroughly voluntary and hardly a prereq for 
>professional success.

Correct, but how many folks want to hire on a lawyer who is *not* a member?
According to a lawyer friend of mine, being a member is very important to 
establishing a rapport and credibility which, in turn, is what determines,
to a large extent, one's career in law.

I don't want to argue about lawyers, but I would *love* to support 
those pro-life lawyers who wish to quit the ABA in protest. More power to them.


-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity