HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cwechter@cyclone.mitre.org (Christine G. Wechter)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: The word FAT
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:57:38 GMT
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <1992Nov19.001746.19552@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>jessica@wrs.com (Jessica Hart) writes:
>
>>Does anyone here object to the word FAT, used to describe an overweight
>>person?
>
>>I remember in the past, options such as CHUBBY, PLUMP, etc. were used in a
>>vain attempt (usually by thin people) to be less offensive. Didn't work,
>>in my opinion.
>
>>More recently, I've seen ZAFTIG and RUBENESQUE, which are at least more
>>poetic than the others.
>
>>Comments?
>


I like what Erma Bombeck (I think) used to say:

 " I'm not overweight, I'm just undertall!"

 
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: jblackwo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J P Blackwood)
Subject: CFV: misc.health.alternative
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:32:38 GMT

There is a proposal for an alternative health newsgroup in news.groups

To vote yes send the message vote misc.health.alternative yes

to:

kaminski@netcom.com
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Another opinion of diets don't work
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:01:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <9989@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg) writes:

>Progress not perfection.  (Maybe
>I'll have this tattooed somewhere over the holidays...)
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And just where exactly _are_ those, and why do you want to cover them up?
;-)






-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Another opinion of diets don't work
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:20:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1ej8j0INN3v5@agate.berkeley.edu> mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu () writes:
>What Roth and other people on the 'diet's don't work`
>bandwagon are saying is, find the ability to limit your food by slowly
>but surely taking the complusive eating and overeating habits out of
>your life. 

That's certainly a prerequisite to weight control and I hope most people
who read Roth or hear about her get this message and realize the context
of the "eat all you want" message. 

If someone is engaging in abuse of food they need to stop that 
behavior *before* trying to diet.  But, anyone who thinks they can lose
weight by waiting to hear the little voice inside saying "enough"
is probably going to be disappointed.  My little voice says "Call
Dominos...buy the Skor bar...it won't matter."  [just one thin
mint...]

Even if someone never loses a pound if they can stop the binge
behavior then they have made progress.  Someone with out-of-control
eating can hardly be expected to move to strict calorie control all in
one step but without doing that I wonder if they'll ever be able to
lose the weight they want to lose.  Progress not perfection.  (Maybe
I'll have this tattooed somewhere over the holidays...)
-- 
John Lundberg
From: MOSTERBE@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Flying on my own...
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:23:40 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <63620071@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>
brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks) writes:

>off the fast for 18 months (where I lost 185 pounds), and have held my
>target weight (+-5 pounds) for a year (those 15 pounds were a lot
>harder to lose than the others).  I signed up for the standard maintenance
>program, and "graduate" November 19th.  I elected not to rejoin,
>partly for the cost ($250/3 months), partly because I've learned a
>lot, and partly because I want to see how I do on my own.
HURRAY FOR YOU!  DO YOU REALIZE YOU'VE LOST ENOUGH WEIGHT TO EQUAL ANOTHER
PERSON?  EXCELLENT WORK.  (AND VERY ADMIRABLE I MIGHT ADD).
Also, you'll have to remember YOU lost the weight.  The method may have been
someone elses, but YOU lost the weight and YOU deserve the credit.  That's
why you'll keep the weight off because you have the right "mindset" now.
Congratulations! (and Good Luck)
Maureen
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Nonfat Foods (Bogus)
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:29:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Jessica Hart (jessica@wrs.com) wrote:
> 
> That's true, you can't trust the label just because it says
> "nonfat." I was on the verge of buying some "Molly McButter"
> because, really, popcorn does taste better with butter. The
> nutrition label said 0 fat per serving, but the ingredients
> included butter and other oils! 

I don't know about Molly McButter, but I think Butter Buds separates
the butter "solids" from the fat.  So it's like dehydrated, defatted 
butter.  

I wish someone would do the same thing to peanut butter.  
--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
3033 Science Park Road
San Diego, CA 92121
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: CSMSCST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Chris Thomas)
Subject: Re: Health Factors
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:41:58 PST

In article <1992Nov21.142103.24498@inmet.camb.inmet.com>, on 21 Nov 1992 14:21:03 GMT,
mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:

>Below I have listed all the risk factors on the chart, the desired rate,
>the average for women, and the average for men.  Other factors that don't
> ...                                                                   't
>                                Average         Average
>Factor          Goal            Woman           Man
>
>Tot Chol/HDL    4-4.5           4-4.4           4-4.5
                  |
                 ???

Is this perhaps a typo?  I'm not a medical expert, but I don't
know any cardiologists who wouldn't classify a TC/HCL of 4.5
as significant risk.  I'd believe 3-3.5 as a goal...

  -- Chris Thomas (CSMSCST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: amygk@watson.ibm.com (Amy)
Subject: Re: Limiting exercise (Really lowfat recipes)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 23:05:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BxxKM4.CJr@wrs.com>, jessica@wrs.com (Jessica Hart) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov18.144123.12444@watson.ibm.com> amygk@watson.ibm.com (Amy) writes:
|> >
|> > (A lower-fat banana bread recipe:)
|> 
|> >1/4 cup walnuts                    7.7g   (chop them, they'll go further)
|> >1 egg                              5.6g
|> >1/3 cup skim milk                  0.5g
|> >3 Tbsp unsweetened apple sauce   < 0.1g
|> >
|> >total for part of recipe          13.9g
|> >
|> 
|> 
|> (Look, up in the air! It's a bird...a plane... it's Fat Fanatic!)
|> 
|> You could cut those fat grams just about in half by using just the egg WHITE!
|> 

Or egg substitute, which we use all the time at home. However, I just wanted
to show that it could be lowered significantly without a lot of effort...
-- 
Amy (amygk@watson.ibm.com)
My opinions, IBM's hardware.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: amygk@watson.ibm.com (Amy)
Subject: Re: Nonfat eating; Lunch; Baba Ganoush (sp?)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:23:22 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Nonfat lunch, baba ganoush

Christine G. Wechter at Mitre asked about a recipe for baba ganoush.
I found this one on a can of Near East brand Tahini (sesame seed paste).
Tahini is usually near the peanut butter in the super markets in NY.
I haven't tried this recipe yet (used the Tahini for a Felafel recipe).
Comments follow the recipe.

Baba Ganoush Recipe:
Pierce 2 medium eggplants with a fork. Place them on broiling pan
in the oven, 3 to 4 inches from heat source. Turn often, until skin
is charred and eggplants are mushy and falling apart. Remove from 
oven. Scoop out pulp and place in blender or food processor. Add one
recipe Tahini Sauce, minus the water (recipe below), salt, pepper, and
1 or 2 Tbsp olive oil to taste (comments below!!). Add some chopped
scallions and parsley, and serve with fresh pita.

Tahini Sauce Recipe:
  1/3 cup Tahini paste
  1/4 cup lemon juice
  2-3 garlic cloves, crushed
  salt/pepper to taste
Mix all the above until smooth. Refrigerate if not eating right away.

COMMENTS:
For those who may not know, Tahini paste is sesame seed paste. According
to the T-Factor Fat Gram Counter, 2 TableSpoons of sesame seeds has 8.8
grams of fat (94 calories). Yikes! I don't know how many Tbsp sesame seeds
makes 1 Tbsp of Tahini paste - probably not a 1 to 1 ratio. 

That said, 1/3 cup of tahini paste makes
close to 1 cup tahini sauce (when the water is added) and having a TableSpoon
or two of the finished sauce isn't too bad once in a while. Just beware,
that's all. Having a serving (what ever size that might be; 1/4 cup?) of
baba ganoush isn't fat free, but it won't be too bad if you don't add the
oil that the recipe suggests.
-- 
Amy (amygk@watson.ibm.com)
IBM's hardware, my opinions
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: sad@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (downie,sharon l)
Subject: Re: STEP AEROBIC TAPES 
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:40:23 GMT
Summary: KATHY SMITH'S STEP AEROBICS TAPE

Has anyone tried Kathy Smith's Step Aerobic Tape?

Also I would be interested on any recommendations
on STEP tapes.

Thanks for your help.

Sharon Serene




Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: grenus@pasture.ecn.purdue.edu (Karen M Grenus)
Subject: holiday dieting
Summary: how to survive a diet in this season?
Keywords: diet holidays socials
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:18:24 GMT

How are people handling the holidays? So far I have a potluck and two 
Thanksgiving dinners to go to. I've been on NutriSystem for 4 weeks and
have lost 10 pounds, but I'm afraid of gaining it back.
	Should I just eat very little the day of the party and work out like mad that week? I don't want to offend the people that invited me to dinner by not
eating or by whipping out my own freeze dried entree.

Karen Grenus
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: gund@msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Linda "the goose" Gunderson)
Subject: Recipes with Nonfat Miracle Whip
Reply-To: gund@msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Linda "the goose" Gunderson)
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 20:49:23 -0500

Hi folks.  Here are the lower fat goodie recipes I have
had luck with:

1.  Chocolate Chip Cookies
1/2 C Nonfat Miracle Whip (NMW)
1/2 C Brown Sugar
1/2 C Sugar
1/2 tsp. Vanilla
1 C + 2 Tbsp. Flour
1/2 tsp. Baking Soda
1/2 C Chocolate Chips

Mix all ingredients except flour and chips well.  Mix in flour,
then chocolate chips.  Bake at 350 for 8 mins.  Makes 24 cookies.
(This is adapted from the Joy of Cooking; when I made them some
of the bottoms were burnt and some were not, so I would be careful
when baking.  Perhaps the sugar carmelizes and burns more quickly
without oil.  But I liked the texture and the taste of these a lot.)

2.  Chocolate Cupcakes
1 C Sugar
1/4 C Cocoa
1 tsp. Vanilla
2 tsp baking soda disolved in 1 C warm water
2 C flour
1 C NMW

Mix all ingredients except flour well, then mix in flour.  Pour
into muffin cups and bake at 350 for about 30 min. (Cooking time
is approximate; they are done when they look done.)

Good luck and I hope you like them!
Linda
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: please think before you diet..
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:43:11 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov20.015620.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> awinters@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>one thought I would like to remind you:  scientific studies show that 98% of
>diets do not work.  This means that weight will be regained and sometimes you
>will end up with more than what you started with.   the diet industry is
>exactly what it says it is it is an industry....created to make money.  please
>be careful with them.  there is no reason why everyone should try to be the
>same size.  think carefully before you go on a diet.  there are ways of
>accepting your body without changing it. 

I would like to suggest that anyone who claims "scientific studies show..."
mention just exactly WHAT "scientific studies" they're referring to.  Often
what people think scientific studies show is quite  different from what
they actually do.

The high failure rate of dieting has been cited frequently and I'm sure
everyone reading this group is aware of the claims.  BUT I persist in
thinking that I'm unique--by this I mean that I'm only trying to fix my
own problems and not solve the problems of a group of people.  Likewise,
if you produced some kind of statistic that showed how few people did
well in higher mathematics courses it wouldn't necessarily constrain me
from trying.  And universities are full of people who are successful
in higher mathematics.

"Dieting" and weight control seem to be a fixation in our society.  Just
look at the trash papers at the supermarket checkouts.  Many people do
need to learn to accept their bodies and do harm themselves by repeated
diets and/or abuse of food--particularly people who are maybe 10-15%
over their desired weight and who have unrealistic images of how they
want to appear.  BUT other people face a totally different situation.
As my 69 year old father pointed out, you don't see many fat old people.
For many of us losing weight isn't a matter of becoming more attractive
to those we wish to become more attractive to, or a matter of being 
able to wear some fashionable clothes: it's a matter of survival.
Without a successful diet and a lifetime commitment to change in eating
and exercise we face an early death or disability.  The message
of "learn to accept your body" is distinctly unhelpful for someone
who is seriously overweight.
-- 
John Lundberg
From: mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Another opinion of diets don't work
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:51:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu

Steve Dyer writes

>In article <17526@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>>>She suggested that we really enjoy eating
>>>Eat in a calm place without distractions
>>>Eat anything you want      
>>>Eat until satisfied
>>
>>That's exactly what I did for the first 25 years of my life.
>>At the end of that time I weighed 335 lbs and was gaining at
>>the rate of 1 pound per month.  Just how long was I supposed
>>to continue trying this method?  I think it may work for some
>>people, but for others it is a quick trip to the morgue.
>
>Or a slow one.  This is my experience too--I really enjoyed eating, ate
>w/o distractions, ate anything I wanted, and ate until satisfied, until
>I discovered one day that a sedentary lifestyle wasn't a choice
>anymore--I could barely move around anymore without severe distress.
>(You'd wheeze and sweat too, walking down the block, if you were
>carrying 300+ pounds.)  Of course, I wasn't a follower of Roth's, it was
>just the way I was: always two helpings instead of one, frequent late
>night snacking, and restaurant meals a lot.
>
 more deleted (I can't type that many >`s continously)

I think that both Steve and Gordon, and some other posters are missing
the main point. Let me see if I can make myself lucid.

All of us who are overweight seem to have lost/never had/ignored the
unconsious ability to limit the amount of food we eat to what our bodies
need. This is the ability we go crazy at thin people for having. The
whole point of what we are trying is to somehow get that ability back
into our lives. THere seem to be as many ways of doing that as people
on the planet. What Roth and other people on the 'diet's don't work`
bandwagon are saying is, find the ability to limit your food by slowly
but surely taking the complusive eating and overeating habits out of
your life. IF you have never eaten to the point of bursting when you
were not even hungry at all, then this may sound completely stupid
to you. Counting calories or cutting fat or WW or fasts may be fine
for non-compusive eaters but for compulsive eaters, they just feed
(ouch, no pun intended) into the cycle of binging -> dieting -> purging
-> dieting again. I think Geneen Roth made a perfect statement about this
"For every diet there is an equal and opposite binge". There is
a big difference bewteen eating what you want and stopping when
you are full to binging and dieting. IF you gained your weight by
just slowly accumlating it over the years (or quickly as Gordon
says) and didn't bounce wildly all over the scale, then stay with
your diet and exercise plan and all the luck in the world. I'll 
stick with trying to eat three meals a day on a consistent basis
and not stuffing my face when I'm not hungry, just hurt. No Flames
intended.

Amy Mossman
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: scotti@mtl.mit.edu (Gretchen Fuller)
Subject: Re: Flying on my own...
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:22:49 GMT

You got the wish.  Best luck.  Also, if it helps, you've got my
confidence.  From what I've seen from your posts, you'll do just
fine.  Happy Holidays.

Scotti
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Too heavy for scales (was: Re: Fatman returns (hee-hee-hee)
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:40:17 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <63620078@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks) writes:
>The local diet program uses an electronic freight scale with > 400
>pounds capacity.  Don't know how high it goes; didn't *want* to know.
>

25 years ago, I pinned the scale at the induction center during my
draft physical.  (It only went up to 300 lbs.)  I was pleased that
I wouldn't be going to Viet Nam, but horrified that I was over
300 lbs.  (I hadn't weighed in years.)  Denial no longer being
an option, I found a freight scale that showed I was 335lbs.  
Most shipping departments have them.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: CSMSCST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Chris Thomas)
Subject: Re: Health Factors
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:55:56 PST

In article <1992Nov23.162847.10049@unocal.com>, on 23 Nov 1992 16:28:47 GMT,
stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:

>
>
>The long term benefit of various health factors are dubious.  Studies change
>emphasis from week to week.  For example, 20/20 on TV last week examined a
>study of centarians in US Georgia and found the only health factor most had
>followed was a good, stress free psychological outlook.  Many lots of fat,
>smoked, didn't exercise.
>

Right.  Which is exactly anyone who understands research design
doesn't do research that way.  You end up talking to exactly the
wrong people.  Rather that looking at who smokes (is overweight,
has high BP, whatever) and has survived, you need to look at how
many people with that condiditon didn't survive.  To quote an
example I've used before, the 20/20 report is like interviewing
that woman skydiver from a number of years ago whose parachute
failed to open, but who landed in a lake and survived.  One would
get a very misleading idea of the the survival rate of jumping
out of planes without parachutes unless one also collected
statistics on some of the other people who've tried it.

  -- Chris Thomas (CSMSCST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)

                               "How much easier it is to be critical
                                than to be correct." -- Disraeli
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: When Food Is Love
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:04:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Nov19.232742.11565@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>I'd love to meet someone formerly fat who followed Roth's
>recommendations and became thin, but I'm pretty skeptical!

Know what?  I'd love to meet someone formerly fat who followed X diet plan 
and kept the weight off permanently -- or for even 10 years.  I still haven't.
I've heard about them, and TV diet ads display them, but I haven't met one
personally yet.  

>What's more, I wonder how wise such a recommendation is.  It's more like
>giving people "permission" to overeat if they want to.  

I think Roth's -- and others' in that movement -- point is that we can
_stop_ overeating.  I haven't read much of her stuff, but it seemed to me
that she definitely doesn't advocate overeating.

>There's an enormous hormonal
>component to fat deposition and distribution, as I mentioned before.
>In other words, we're stuck with lousy genes.

Could be.

-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Low protein diet...HELP!
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:44:59 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov16.192633.4848@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>>My husband was just diagnosed with a kidney disease and has been put
>>on a special diet.  This diet allows for 40 grams of protein per day.
>>75% of these grams are to come from foods such as milk, eggs and meat.
>This doesn't make much sense to me.  This sounds like an artifact of the
>time when non-meat proteins were bad because they didn't contain all
>the essential amino acids.

I think it's just to be sure that the proteins are balanced, given
that the total daily protein intake is restricted.  Rather than quibbling
over whether this is strictly necessary, I'd make the following
recommendations:

	1.) You and your husband should get a referral thru your
	    doctor or hospital to a registered dietitian.  This
	    is exactly the kind of person who can help you formulate
	    meals within the constrainst prescribed by his doctors.

	2.) There may also be kidney disease support groups in your
	    area.  These folks have been through this and a lot of
	    other stuff which can be helpful to know.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Subway Sandwichs: What's its Nutritional breakup ?
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:43:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

I've seen the nutrient breakdown chart they publish, but it doesn't really
specify the individual ingredients.  If you're worried about fat, though, the
ingredients you need to be concerned with are, in my rough estimate of fat
content are

	mayo
	oil
	cheese
	meat
	black olives
	avacado (available as an extra)

A sub missing all of these ingredients is a little bland to me (it tastes kind
of like a salad on a roll), so I get a turkey (lowest fat of the available
meats) sub without any of the other ingredients listed.  My
back-of-the-envelope guess is that this gives you a sandwich with a 15-20% fat
content.  Pretty damn good for fast food.

Mike

-- 
--Mike Coleman (coleman@cs.ucla.edu), Lord High Executioner of Anhedonia-----
I saw a commercial on television the other day which began, "Southern
California--there's no place in the world quite like it."  Kind of like
saying, "Grant's tomb--only one person ever buried there."