From: mvcy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: SPQR is a crock?
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:50:03 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1993Jan24.224858.13020@trl.oz.au>,
mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers) writes: 
> 
> OK, but there is still this problem with disjointed movement due to 
> one person moving at a time.  The other player's troops do not get to
> respond your moves until after you have finished moving (with that
> general at least).  So when your cavalry charges half way accross the
> board, his troops are in freeze-frame.  His own cavalry doesnt get to
> counter-charge or intercept if it is in range, or whatever.  

That's true, but in most cases, the problem is likely to be serious only
if the charging side is using momentum.  If they try that and succeed, you
could always attempt to trump to contain the damage.

> Another
> point is skirmishers.  If they are sitting there shooting up some
> heavier troops, it would seem wise for them to evade any charge by these
> heavier units.  This doesnt need orders...this is what light troops do
> unless specifically ordered NOT to.  There are some sort of retreat in
> enemy ZOC orders, but they are warped to fit the I move/ you move
> system.
> 

Skirmisher never have to fight any heavier infantry since they can do
orderly withdrawal up to two hexes regardless of the MA differential.

> |> 
> |> This isn't true. This type of morale check happens only to those units
> |> "nearing collapse" (i.e. one off their troop quality ratings) after being
> |> involved in shock combat.
> 
> So what type of morale check is carried out if a unit routs within LOS?
> Does it's neighbors have to undergo any sort of test?
> 

The only time any 'contagious' rout happens is when a unit routs through
another.

> |> You're forgetting that all units involved in shock combat must take a troop
> |> quality check before the shock takes place (unless they've just been through
> |> shock). The closer a unit is to breaking, the more likely it will break
> |> before the shock. Thus, in your example, the Celt unit may not have to fight 
> |> at all, thereby sustaining no hits.
> 
> OK.  But if they dont break, they fight as if they were a totally fresh,
> finely ordered unit, right?
> 
Right, but they are not likely to hold the ground necessarily.  The CRT is
organized so that most combatants will take a hit or two.  That being the
case, a unit closer to breaking *ARE* more likely to rout than others
Assuming that there is no DS or AS involved.  I would definitely attack a
principe of TQ8 with 6 hits with a fresh Celt unit and expect to succeed.

> 
> Well, you may have straightened out a few of the finer points for me
> (thanks), but the substance of my complaints still stands.  I'll go and
> re-read the rules again, and see if it makes any more sense.

I like the game too, but the rules are badly organized and hard to read (with
too much H&B humor sprinkled around).  I think your complaints have a point,
but the system is very easy and fast.  If you attend to your complaints, I
think the mechanism of the game will be much more complicated (or slower).

Question to SPQRites: I remember reading in the scenario book (about the
game as a history part I think) imitating the Roman tactics.  They mention
charging with the hastatis and if they don't break the enemy, spending an Line
command to retreat them through the principes.  As far as I can tell, there
are no way for a unit already engaged in an enemy ZOC to move.  So what are
they (H&B) talking about??

Sat Amagai
mvcy@cornella.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board