From: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Marwan GET A LIFE
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:43:47 GMT
Reply-To: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Distribution: world
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI

Note, this is Ilan U. Woll
You know the rest


Marwan Garba (ge) hay writes:

The sceen was about two brothers from Nablus (Nablus==Jabal El-Nar==the
mountainf fire) running with fear from 7-8 Israeli soldiers who  finally       probably hiding on an adjacent hill, so
the sceen looked like taken from a distance ... One of the soldiers looked
all around him to see that there is nobody seeing him (the stupid did not
see the reporter and the camera) and after that the 5 DEVILS started their
evil business ... 2 of the Devils held the arab teenager, one pressed him
firmly to the ground and the other twisted the boy's arm and extended his
elbow behind his back ... Another Devil looked around him and found a huge
rock on the ground, he picked it up, and then with all his force, he lifted
it high up and slamed it to the poor guys hand ... For those pro-Israelis,
I want to say that the devil hit the boy on his Elbow ... GOD ... THE
ELBOW ... I sware to god that I felt that stone on my elbow as I was 
watching the scene ... The scene was so unpleasent to watch that I could
not bear to continue to see it ... I jumped and went streight to my room.

I responded:

OK, Marwan, this shit is getting annoying.  I demand one thing.  SHOW
DOCUMENTATION.  Your racist garbage is sufficiently obnoxious that I 
will state right here.

I BELIEVE MARWAN GHARAYBEH MADE THIS UP.

I demand documentation from a credible source.  Not the Saudi Daily
Journal, not the PLO Monthly,  I want a Western daily, weekly, or monthly. 
NYT, Newsweek, the Economist, US News & World report.  When you provide
a source and reference so I may look it up, then I will respond.  NOT
until then.

Leon (144 to a) Gross provided the reference:

CBS news.  Shown on Israeli TV.  Caused quite an outcry among Israelis,
as this kind of stuff hadn't been shown before, lead to an investigation,
and reconsideration of Israel's policy dealing with protestors.
Look at previous posts.  I already commented on this, and someone else said 
they saw it in an Israeli newspaper.  Marwan probably has done some 
editorializing, (I don't think the rocks were that big, and the beating
might have been done by clubs) but this is not made up.
Marwan and I don't agree on much, and quite often disagree in not
so pleasant ways  so don't flame me for this.
(You can check this if you have records of older posts)

Given this my (new) comment is as such:

Don't worry, Leon, my hostility is always reserved for those who earn it.
All I will say yo you is Thank you for the info.  While I still have question
as to who broke the story (in other words, who did CBS get the footage from)?
The imagery seems likely to have been from an Arabic crew, but then again,
Israeli security did some extremely awful things, and this is not out of the 
realm of possibility.  I stand by my prior comments on the piece, and pose
the following questions to Marwan?

1. The 1st sentence indicates 2 brothers, what happened to the other one, since
   you only mention brutality against one.

2. What did the youth do to warrant his being chased.  Probably, he threw one
   of those rocks of death at a soldier, or may have even stabbed or shot 
   someone.  Does the report make any attempt to find out?  if no, then that
   would indicate 1 sided reporting?

3. Is the loaded term "Devils" part of the report or merely your anti-semitic
   editorializing.

In any case, I apologize for calling you a liar, but stand by every other 
comment.

Ilan U. Woll
Wayne State U.

Damn the > signs, full speed ahead




-- 
Ross Starkey                         "Of course you know, this means WAR." 
rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu        "This whole thing is goony, I shou'da
                                      stood in bed!"  "Gruesome, isn't it?"
FIGHT DICTATORSHIP!  VOTE!!!!                                  --Bugs Bunny
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast