HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Subject: Re: Comments from 2nd viewing
Followup-To: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: University of Oregon
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:43:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.033515.6596@cco.caltech.edu>, UnoJ wrote:
> 
> In article <BARB.92Sep13223047@chamarti.ai.mit.edu> barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu
> (Barb Miller) writes:
> 
> <lots of interesting ring speculations deleted>
> 
> >if she did accept the ring in the train car (and I only remember
> >seeing it thrown in at her, not whether she actually accepted it),
> >perhaps it could not encircle her entire heart, only the dark half.
> >
> >Barb Miller
> >
> I like your theories, although they seemed a little too
> speculative to me. For some arcane reason I think that
> Lynch's truth is out there for some of us to tie it into
> a GUT (Grand Unified Theory; shades of a.tv.t-p's past);
> the problem is that there are just so many details to tie
> together, and not all of them seem to be congruous...

I agree. I think we can come close to something, but not something that
explains everything. Why?  Because Lynch is not hung up on being totally
consistent. It is his style to go with accidents  (they always happen
during filming) if they strike him the right way.  (By the way, it may be
the case that the world isn't totally consistent anyway.)

> Anyway, what I noticed about the ring in the train car
> sequence:
> The angel appears (probably because of Ronette's prayers)
> and loosens her bonds. Ronette opens the door, LeBob sees
> her and beats her to a bloody pulp before tossing her out.
> While the door is open, we see the ring rolling on the floor
> of the train car (we never actually see the OAM throw it in).
> LeBob closes the door, the OAM looks at Ronette and simply
> (coward!) walks away. In the train car interior, Laura puts

Not a coward. He has done what he came for, delivered the ring. He can't
prevent Laura's murder, only help save her soul.  He _is_ strangely
indifferent to Ronette, but as we know, she does survive and Leland does
not injure her further. Perhaps OAM knows that too :-)

> on the ring; LeBob beats her to death and wraps her in the

Correct. Someone asked if she put it on.  We do see her put it on.

> infamous plastic. The rest is history :-)
> Did they ever discover a ring on LP? 

No. Neither a ring or evidence of one like in the case of TB. ( Since she
had it on only for a few moments, there wouldn't be time for a ring
'shadow' to develop).    I'll bet the ring goes with you when you travel,
even if your dead body remains behind.

There was, of course, the infamous letter under the ring finger nail.  It
was the split heart necklace that they found in a little mound next to the
body.

-Rich
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Owls/Aliens
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:50:34 GMT

Just a reminder that the whole bundle of clues like The Owls, The
Owls Are Not What They Seem, Major Briggs having worked on Project
Blue Book, etc. etc. point not to *spirits* so much as to Aliens,
that is beings from UFOs.

Anything can happen in a Lynchian world, but it's more likely that the
FBI would be investigating a *special* series of events, i.e. the Blue
Rose cases, if they were associated with something like UFOs. They would,
of course, also investigate what appeared to be a serial killer (BOB/Leland)
but that would be somewhat a matter of course.

Anyway, in the UFO/Visitor literature, there are many instances where people
had contacts with Aliens but developed *screen memories* of animals, especially
owls. The person would believe they had seen an owl in a most unlikely place,
and come to realizeunder hypnosis, that it was the face of an Alien -- the
big white head and huge black eyes. So to say, "The owls are not what they
seem," fits this.  Also in UFO literature, a principal action is the abduction
of humans. Often, like Major Briggs, they are later returned with no memories
of what happened.

All of the elements surrounding the Others -- BOB, MIKE, MFAP, etc, are
slightly
on the *spirit* side, and slightly on the *Alien* side, so it's confusing.
But then, that'sLynch.

Lou
From: mking@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew Alexander King)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: TP:FWWM Soundtrack
Date: 14 Sep 1992 02:58:28 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu



Yeah the soundtrack is very important.  Listening to the songs before I
the movie was of great benefit because i could make connections, "The Pink
Room" is played in the bar scene, "Black Dog Runs At Night" is played when 
the kid is running in circle, "Questions in a world of blue" is played when
Laura goes to bar and Donna watches her cry, and the most intriguing of all
iss "Moving Through Time" played when Laura is walking to school close to her 
death day, you know when she is sleeping/crying through class.

Wasnt absolutely sure of the rest but I will be sure to watch/listen at my
next viewing.

Matt


Lynchie my boy, we truly have to talk, gimme a ring ( ha ha )

P.S.  Will someone please try and find out when the song "Sycamore Trees" 
is played during movie, oh and also check for what Laura was listening to
while doing coke, you know when see turns the radio on, thanks.
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Minor point about the Bookhouse Boys
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:28:30 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <rhaller-090992163800@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu> rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:
>When they introduced the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as the date when
>'they will receive you'  (Major Briggs) there was some suggestion about a
>periodic event, lets say roughly every 20 years, when maybe particularly
>bad things happen in the TP area.

Not 20 -- 25.  "I'll see you again in 25 years"... remember?  That would
put the last major brouhaha in Twin Peaks in around 1964, when Project
Blue Book was in full swing.

Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: pnorman@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Peter T. Norman)
Subject: Cooper in Pittsburg (HELP)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:11:41 GMT


In the holding cell under the Sheriff's Station, Leland confesses to the
killings.  Well, I guess Bob confesses, sorry.  He says "he likes
knives"..."just like what happened to you in Pittsburg, Coop!"

Bob knows what happened to Cooper in Pittsburg.  Uh, does anyone want to
venture an explanation for this?

The Pittsburg incident, of course, is referred to by Gordon Cole when he
drops by to see how Cooper is after he had been shot.  Remember the "You
remind me today of a small Mexican Chiuaua (sp?)"  Well, the only thing
for certain which I gleened from this meeting is that Cole DOES know of
the Lodges etc and thus we have support for the Theory of the Blue Rose
Cases.  Cooper says "I was wounded in Pittsburg, thats the only
similarity" [with the events here in Twin Peaks].  Is Cooper just being
cautious here, by not admitting that he suspects more and more that Twin
Peaks is in fact intimately connected to the Blue Rose Cases?

So, how does Bob know what happened to Cooper?  And I won't buy into any
of that talk of - well, since Bob is from the Lodge (B/W) he can travel
in time or whatever so he just sort of filled himself in on Cooper's
story for the hell of it!  Why not something along the lines that Bob
has been aware of Cooper for a longer time than his work in Twin Peaks?
Oh hell, what does everyone think?  This just lurched at me as I watched
this episode earlier today.

Peter
"hopelessly fighting the devil futility" - R.Smith
d
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Second Guessing...
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:19:59 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <19377oINNrhc@network.ucsd.edu> mmaxwell@ucsd.edu writes:
>In article <15441@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
>here...) writes:
>(big 'ol snip)
>>The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
>>its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
>>FWWM?

>Kermit's suggestion about concentrating on the death of Laura Palmer makes
>a lot of sense to me.  Take out everything with Stanley and Desmond, 
>because it just isn't essential.  Take out Jeffries, and even take out 
>garmonbozia.  Yes, this means no Cooper as well.  This would make it a 
>completely different movie.  (Maybe not a better one).

Well, it would be "better" in terms of telling a more unified story, but
by no means "better" in terms of the sheer number-of-ideas-per-minute that
FWWM made you think about.  Definitely better for those who wanted to have
some sense what the story actually meant.

>The thing is, that with all of the bits with Jeffries and Cooper and
>the room above the convenience store are great.  They add a new dimension
>to the movie and the story (and get all of us to go back and watch the
>tapes over again to try and fit them in place.)  

Agreed.  Like I said, I think they deserved a completely separate movie
on their own.  There was a full-blown story in there about the Blue Rose
cases and their intersection with the drug-running -- maybe even the way
the One-Armed Man fit in with it all.  But these ideas didn't deserve to
be squeezed into the 2 hours or so devoted to Laura Palmer.

>FWWM is an awesome, emotional
>film experience.  I saw it twice.  I can't remember the last time that
>i paid to see a movie twice in the theatre (well...i can, it was T2).
>Lynch is a by god director, one who knows how to manipulate images
>better than anyone i've seen in a long while.

Agreed wholeheartedly.  The thing is, the parts that moved me the most
about the film weren't Desmond and Cable butting heads, but Laura glimpsing
BOB behind her dresser and Laura breaking down and telling James she loved
him.  That, in my mind, is what FWWM was really "about".
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Six
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:23:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <rhaller-090992125112@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu> rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:
>Probably, but I suspect the 6 on the pole is an intentional reference to
>666.

Or, like the Monkey, a reference to The Prisoner?
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Miniseries
Date: 10 Sep 1992 16:54:47 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: mj1078@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp's message of 10 Sep 92 08:43:13 GMT

In article <MJ1078.92Sep10174313@sol.taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp> mj1078@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (mmanuel pece) writes:

   Well, i have some ideas about the possible miniseries.
   First of all, if they really have a 3h40m director's cut of FWWM, 
   the could do a four (or even five) hours miniseries with that. 
   I think that it was made with Dune for the RAI (Italian Television). 
   The Japanese cable channel WOW WOW would surely buy it. 

Yes, but would they change their name to ``WOW bOb WOW'' for the
occasion?

-30-
Bob
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Now we know who Mike is... (SPOILERS)
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:44:52 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

(Andreas Locicero) writes:
> (George Noel) writes:
>>01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>>(George Noel)
>>>> (Joe Zitt)
>>>>>01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>
>> Actually, this is true.. now that I think of it Twin Peaks DOES resemble
>> Canada like you said. As a sidenote, on a comedy show I was watching there
>> was a sketch where a comedian was saying that Canada would be the perfect
>> country to invade someone else. You would have the president from the other
>> country calling the UN and telling them that Canada is invading us and the
>> UN would say Canada? They wouldn't do anything like that... :-)

> Most Americans who don't live near the Canadian border know next to nothing
> about Canada.  They have vague notions about beer drinking, Lumber jacks, and
> the McKenzie twins.  It is really a sad situation that we are so ignorant of
> one of our nearest neighbors.  However, cinematicly speaking this ignorance
> means that you can construct a mileu like TP and create a very effective
> MYTHICAL Canada to set your film in.  (Of course this won't work for
> Canadians).  It is also true the Twin Peaks is a lot like Canada in some ways ,
> because it is true the much of the U.S. near the boarder is like Canada. 
> Listen to a northern Minnesotan talk sometime.

Exactly... Your characterization of Canada is what I was thinking of when I
mentioned I thought Canada was a lot like Twin Peaks. DO you think Lynch
is poking fun at Americans for not knowing as much as they might about Canada,
Or do you think he really believes Canada is like The Pink Room/One Eyed Jacks
etc..?

As a side note, I took a good look at the curtains in The Pink Room. I used to
have those exact curtains at another house. Gee, I wish I'd taken them with me 
now...
Oh well...
Mike (I want all my Garmonbozia)
From: adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Who's Judy? "Garmonbozia" == "I is Windom Earle"?
Keywords: Judy
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:38:42 GMT
Organization: The College of William and Mary

Hello netland,
	I just saw FWWM for the second time last night and have a few new
questions. May be I've missed the answers in previous discussions, but who is
Judy. Phillip Jefferies says not to mention Judy when he arrives, and I
understand from a previous post that the second time we see the monkey, it says
Judy. 

	Secondly, has anyone, other than the original poster, verified that
"garmonbozia" is "I is Windom Earle" backwards?

	Lastly, after my first viewing, I was struck by FWWM's basic structure,
i.e. mostly before the murder and mostly about Laura. I understand that Lynch
would like to do another TP film, if there be enough interest. If TP does
continue in the theaters, I have a few hunches and would like some feed back. It
seems that Lynch has TP set-up pretty well to be come a trilogy. In the series,
we had the basic story-line of Laura's murder, Windom Earle's quest for the Black
lodge and Cooper's long history of visions and experiences with the paranormal
and his capture in the Black Lodge. I believe that this could be carried over to
the theaters in the form of a trilogy. Each volume of which would be very focused
on one these story-lies. The first came in the form of FWWM, a very intense
recount of the events concearning Laura and the Lodge. As a second part, I
believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would prove to be
very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see any more of Cooper than
was seen in FWWM. As a last and conclusionary part, It would be great to have it
all laid out on the table concearning Cooper and these visions, his ring, etc.
Perhaps it would be then that we would get a tangible answer to Jefferies "Do you
know who this is?" Now I know that Lynch isn't into "happy endings" and wouldn't
expect one such as the good Cooper returning from the Lodge, but I do think a
grim wrapping up as in end of the series could be the cap stone for the TP saga.

Note: no flames please. This last part is only my fanciful conjecture.

Adrian 
-- 
----------------------------------+--------------------------------------------
adrian@cs.wm.edu          ---->>>>| Support you local programmer,
adrian@cebafi.cebaf.gov     --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW!
Member: The League for        -->>| membership info at prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/lpf
       Programming Freedom      ->| print "join.ps" for an application
----------------------------------+--------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel)
Subject: Re: FWWM - minor quibbles
Summary: Time slowing down in monitor scene
Keywords: obvious
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:08:55 GMT

>|
>|
>|>>   It seemed as if Cooper kept going back and forth between the area
>|>>the camera was surveying and the TV monitor for no good reason right
>|>>before Bowie showed up.  Did I miss something?
>|
>|>i think he sensed time slowing down, as someone else mentioned.  so much
>|>that he went to the display room first, saw nothing.  went to the
>|>display room a second time, saw his arm in the door.  and then went
>|>to the display room a third time, and saw himself stuck there in
>|>time as jeffries walked by, unhindered by time.  just a guess?
>
>The second time I went to the movie, I watched *VERY* closely for this,
>and saw no arm in the door.  Besides, even if we did see an arm, wouldn't
>we be tying that scene in with the one armed man?

 Nope it is definately there.. everytime Coop looks at the monitor time
 is getting slower and slower until Jeffries arrives and it is so slow Coop
 can still see himself standing by the camera with Jeffries walking behind
 him. The first 3 times we seen nothing in the hallway when Coop looks at
 the monitor, Coop at monitor, you can see his hand for a second going in
 the door, Coop at monitor, you can see Cooper walking in the door and then
 finally Coop still at the camera.
>
>|He already had a dream about this.  That's why he was so concerned when
>|he went up to Lynches character and said "It's 10:02 already".  He
>|was expecting this to happen.
>
>ObDirectQuoteFromFilm:  "Gordon, it's 10:10 February 16th."
>
>|I think..
>|
From: dcha@flex.com (Doug Cha)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Twin Peaks episode guide!
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 19:03:37 HST
Organization: Flex Information Network

        Has anyone written a Twin Peaks episode guide?  I still don't 
know how many episodes of Twin Peaks there were..  My local video store 
has only the first 7 episodes on tape, so no chance of amassing it all 
from there.
        I heard that the Twin Peaks series came out on LaserDisc in Japan 
but not in America.  Is there any truth to this?

-----
Doug Cha
dcha@flex.com  
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Comments on FWWM script summary
Summary: There's no place like home
Keywords: Wizard of Oz?
Date: 7 Sep 92 00:44:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland


 The script that was posted seems different then the original one I saw,
 I thought the one I saw had actual word forword I thought.
>
>
>WHOA.  This is new.  Wonder if this ties in with Leland's near-attack on
>Donna in 2009?
>
>>Gerard and TMFAP speak together "Bob, you're
>>not going home without me.  I want all my garmonbozia (corn)."
>
>"You're not going home without me"???  Hmm...  theories, anyone?
>
>>Cooper: Where am I? And how can I leave?
>>MFAP: You are here and there is no place to go...But home!
>
>"There's no place like home"?  What is this, Wild at Heart???  :-)

This is again supporting my idea that the Dhali Llama is possesing Coop and

>Has anyone noticed some MAJOR things left out of the script?
>
>No monkeys.  AND NO ANGELS.
>
>No ascent to heaven scene either.  Maybe the producers felt the movie was
>too bleak as it stood, and added on a "happy" ending later?...
>
>Also -- did the script specify that the Red Room where Laura and Coop was
>is the Black Lodge?...
>
>Somehow, it figures.  After reading the script, we only have more questions.
>
 You have to remember that was only the posters summary of the script, it
 wasn't, obviously, the entire script.

 -=*George*=-
From: salmieri@whitebase.ukp.com (Gregory Salmieri)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: questions...
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 11:54:46 EDT
Organization: UKP Systems, Middletown, NJ

-> I did NOT understand the reference to the blue rose type of
-> case. I don't remember the Laura Palmer case being referred
-> to with the blue rose by Cole to Cooper in the series, but
-> I might just not remember. Or, is it something purely in
-> the film? And WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????
It means Project Blue Book which was a project of the FBI and the Airforce 
to study the lodges.
-> Theresa Banks ring. There has been speculation that the ring,
-> symbolizing a circle, symbolizing a circular time line, or
->  that whoever wears the ring is the next to die or something
-> like that. But what about the symbols ON the ring? Weren't
->  those same symbols the same ones on the wall of the cave
-> in Twin Peaks? (At this time I forget what the symbols meant,
->  except that they inferred something about the white lodge,
-> or somthing else mystical. Or am I remembering the those
-> symbols  wrong? (Also, someone, maybe cooper, drew the same
-> symbol on a napkin in the double R diner at one time...)
The symobls are that same as those on owl cave. Owl cave was a map to the 
lodges, whitch leads me to believe that the ring takes you into the lodges. 
Laura escaped from Bob by entering the lodges. I think she entered the white 
lodge because of the angle.
-> What does the creamed corn symbolize? I remember Ms. Tremont
-> (sp?) not wanting it on her meals-on-wheels meal, and her
->  grandson making it 'appear' in his hands. And then in the
-> movie, the person (BOB, MIke?) eating it from the spoon.
-> (I also noticed, this effect seemed to be shown backwards..as
-> tho he person was filmed spitting out the creamed corn, and
-> it was shown in 'reverse'.
The creamed corn symolizes the pain and suffering.

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks