From: v121mhb5@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (D.O.G. of S.A.R.P.A.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: shadowrun and Death.
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:34:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <JALKANEN.92Sep30140242@lesti.hut.fi>, jalkanen@lesti.hut.fi (Janne P R Jalkanen) writes...
> 
>>   I have only played SR on and off.  I don't know if this is covered in 2nd  
>>   edition rules, but the game system seems to be bad when it comes to dieing
>>   (Yes the whole 1st edition combat had problems...)  It looks like a mage,  
>>   with a treat deadly can save any char. after any hit.  One could get torn  
>>   apart by a heavy MG and still be treatable.  Am I missing something or is  
>>   this a game design flaw?
>>   Brehob
> 
>Yes, it is a game design flaw. Within the Shadowrun system it is impossible
>to kill anyone with a single blow so that he will not be resurrected again.
>This is quite unrealistic since you can take a direct hit from a ballistic
>missile and still be healed by a mage, since all you got was a Deadly 
>Wound. SR II partly covers this, because according to it's rules, you can
>take damage 10 boxes + your Body attribute. Although, since the maximum
>damage still possible with one blow is a Deadly Wound, you still cannot
>be killed permanently w/ one blow. 
> 
>This is why a made overkill rules:
> 
>Whenever you take a Deadly wound, you must make a Body Roll with a Target
>number of 1/2 Power level of the attack. 1 success means that you survived,
>but lost an organ/limb/eye/whatever and 2 successes means that you survived
>the hit. 0 successes means that you are _dead_ with no hope of a mage 
>or anyone saving you. Survival means here that you can be healed with a spell
>or by first aid.
> 
>Add the overkill (damage over 10 boxes) to the target number.
> 
>Example:
> 
>	Picker is hit with an assault rifle and he gets a Serious Wound
>	(6 boxes). Then he is hit again, and he must resist a 8M2 wound. He
>	fails and takes a D wound (10 boxes) + 2 boxes of Overkill.
>	Now he must make a Body roll with a target of 6 ( 8/2 + 2) or die.
> 
>This may be a little hard on the characters, so you may use Power/3 or
>something similar as a target. Now the players may start to be a little
>more careful when the opponent carries an assault gun...
>--
>Janne Jalkanen           !
>jalkanen@vipunen.hut.fi  !        Life is about making the right moves.
>-'Good Die!'             !

	Well, two points:
	The treat spell now only removes a number of wound boxes equal to
the number of successes.  The spell precludes (prohibits) all other first
aid.  For a goon with the relatively high essence of 2, the spell target is
still an 8.  So our friend the mage roles 10 dice, he's still lucky if he rolls
2 successes.  Bottom line: your gonna be out of action for awhile.

	2) While not stated in the rules, it's possible to have wounds
staged above deadly.  6 shots of AF from an AK-97 should do 13D if I'm correct,
and what if you roll 6 extra successes (becuase of combat pool dice, etc.)?
So, the target takes a deadly wound, and you can decide on an arbitrary number 
of wound boxes for every damage level above D.  Say you choose 3 boxes, and
in the example you clear four successes above Deadly, against a target with
a Body of 5.  You put six damage boxes into an overflow with a max capacity of
5.   Voila: instant death.

	Personally, I think things are starting to get violent out there.

						Jim Scannell
						Killer GM at large