HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: haynes@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Carl W. Haynes III)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: dba for partnerships?
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:32:42 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Purdue University

In article <199213.1285.2821@execnet> "chris welber" <chris.welber@execnet.com> writes:
>>DBA is an abbreviation for "Doing Business As".  As I understand it, it allows
>>you to establish a name for yourself.  You get one of these (at least in NY)
>>at the county clerks office and it costs about $35.  Your mileage may vary.
>
>This is correct, it also allows you to open a bank account in your DBA
>name. Otherwise all you clients would have to make out personal checks to
>you.
>

If all that you're concerned about is opening a bank account under a 
business name, I'd check with the bank before going spending money
for a DBA permit. My bank was happy to open a new account for me under
any name I pleased. I've got several accounts, one for each name I
do business under. After all, when you're starting out, every penny counts.
As always, your mileage may vary.

carl

--
Carl W. Haynes III  
Haynes Consulting Services        ||  CWH3@aol.com
PO Box 2715                       ||  haynes@mace.cc.purdue.edu
W. Lafayette, IN 47906            ||  hcs@applelink.apple.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Macintosh Programming & Consulting
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: zaid@seas.gwu.edu (Zaid AL-wandawi)
Subject: New Product Marketing
Originator: zaid@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:12:43 GMT

Hi,

	I am trying to advertise a product to HW/SW developers & resellers.
It seems that most of the magazines I'm familiar with are intended for people
who buy rather than sell computer products. 
	If anyone can answer the following questions I will grately
 appreciate it:


	1. If I have an account with online services such as CompuServe, Ao
	 AppleLink, etc., can I place adds there?

	2. Any magazine(s) out there specificaly for HW/SW developers?

	3. Any other online services I should know about?

	4. How about this service? can I place an add in these news groups?

	My add would appear with product inf. and contact number. I would 
like to place my company's name also, but thats not a priority. Please, E-Mail
me any information and advice that you might think is of value and I will 
forward it to whom ever requests it. Thank you in advance for your help.
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:50:00 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep9.184706.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>What exactly do you do, oh great god who claims to be oh so successful?  You
>have already said traditional business ownership styles are f*cked (is that a
>reportable offence?) so maybe traditional measures of success are equally
>wrong?  Maybe you equate narrowminded asshole statements as being logical?

	I manange a company that offers public access to the Net, due to
current bandwidth restirctions I have encouraged all employees who have access
to the net through something like their old school (thatas why you see ucsc.edu
not wnc.com as my domain).  The measures are largelly good but I think personal
can is a secondary one primary is the over all health of the oranzation and
it's ability to generate real wealth.

>Personally I think the idea for the group is an excellent one and maybe we can
>even get one for you, personally.  Then maybe you would leave us alone.

	If you ever read my "rational" (in your words) posts you whould see
that I am rather tradtional in most senses just not how the reqrds should be
handed out, I am a little looser then most on managment style.  For this reason
I think the split of m.e. and a.b.m-l is fine til mlm dies a natural death but
I will still rebut anything that is flat out false in either group.
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 8 Sep 92 06:17:53 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.171006.10692@waikato.ac.nz> cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere) writes:
>
>I feel that MLMs are just as entreprenurial as other business ideas.  I advise
>people to read the description of misc.entrepreneurs if they feel MLMs are not
>appropriate here.  I feel that MLM should maybe be a subset of
>entrepreneurship.  Maybe we should have misc.entrepreneur.multi-level?

For the thousandth time MLM!=Entrepreneur stop tring to make it sound so.  For
this reason I vote no for this idea.  Also by doing this we give MLMers 
more reconition then the deserv personally I think that if MLM was really
reconized as a fraud you all whould be in jail.
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:45:01 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.economics.adelaide.edu.au

In article <18khc8INNrbl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.184706.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
 
>>Personally I think the idea for the group is an excellent one and maybe we can
>>even get one for you, personally.  Then maybe you would leave us alone.
> 
> 	If you ever read my "rational" (in your words) posts you whould see
> that I am rather tradtional in most senses just not how the reqrds should be
> handed out, I am a little looser then most on managment style.  For this reason
> I think the split of m.e. and a.b.m-l is fine til mlm dies a natural death but
> I will still rebut anything that is flat out false in either group.

yet you perpetuate the falsehood that MLM is fraud when it has been proven via
the legal system that it is not.  Or do you ignore court rulings that you
dislike/don't agree with you?

regs

Rob
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: Definition
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:59:47 GMT

In article <18hgakINN4b7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh
Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.151331.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au>
ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>>Look up Dexter Yaeger.  He is now a billionaire who started as an Amway
>>disributor.  He has expanded into many businesses - construction, real
estate,
>>travel to name a few - yet he continues to build a very large and very
>>profitable Amway business.  That is an opportunity open to all distributors
and
>>would seem to me that it's a benefit.  Maybe  you disagree?
>
>        Yes I do that is just an other example of a well payed employee doing
>some side work.  The side work I agree is entreprenuership but not the AMWAY
>or any other MLM for that matter.   That is why it is a fraud people who do
>it are under a false assumation of what they are doing.  I.e. thinking they
>run the show when they are glorified employees.
>
We are NOT employees!  I am not on Amway's payroll nor is any other
distributor.  
Legally, I own MY OWN BUSINESS.  The government recognizes it that way!  I am
an independent contractor, not an employee.  Get your facts straight before
putting things down in print.


Jon

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: djk@saki.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Douglas Knights)
Subject: Re: Amway
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:17:55 GMT

In article <ceh=XVK00WAx80oUYz@andrew.cmu.edu>, University Entrepreneurs Association <ue33+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> >I suspect that Amway is a member of the DSA (the DSA has 3000 members - both
|> >traditional direct sales companies as well as MLM companies).  Do you know 
|> >which company has the most people making over $150,000 per year out of all 
|> >of these 3000 companies?  It sure isn't Amway!
|> 
|> It's NuSkin/IDN
|> 
|> 
|> --------------------------
|> D.Eric Bland
|> Carnegie Mellon University
|> ue33@andrew.cmu.edu

You must have cheated and looked at the answers!  8-)


		Doug
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: MIHOLMSTROM@finabo.abo.fi (Mikael Holmstr|m Fei)
Subject: HAMILTON INC.
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:52:11 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

Any information on a MLM named Hamilton cosmetics will be gratefully 
accepted (and i might put your name in my will).

HMH  (MIHOLMSTROM@abo.fi)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro)
Subject: Re: MLMs=Entreprenuers?
Organisation: SKS Computer Consulting, Inc.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Marlboro, MA
Date:  9 SEP 92 10:45:04 EST


In article <1992Sep8.145548.25296@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>,
ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes...

>Fraud??  I think not!  I was just at my Free Enterprise celebration and got to
>hear such people as GENERAL NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF, MARY LOU RETTON, DAVE THOMAS
>(founder of Wendy's) - just to name a few.  Do you think that these people who
>all said that this is a great opportunity would come and speak at something 
>fraudulent???

Putting the MLM issue aside:

I believe that they would speak at ANYTHING and for ANYONE who paid them their
fees.

Aside from Dave Thoma, what have the other 2 got to do with entrepreneurship?

Regards,
Steve.

/*********************************************************************
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Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Message for William Palmer
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:54:10 GMT

I know that this is probably not SOP on the net but:

Bill,

None of my messages I mail to you are getting through.  They
all keep bouncing back for some reason!  I'll keep trying, but
do you have another e-mail address?  Also, I just wanted you
to know I wasn't ignoring you! :-)

Jon
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Mailing Lists vs Magazine Advertisements
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 07:32:03 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

moghal@aludra.usc.edu (Nadeem Moghal) writes:

>This brings me to an important question: Is it a good idea to 
>flood people with your direct-mail letters before a major occasion
>like christmas? I don't mean immediately prior to it, but. say,
>a month or so. Are there any positive/negative apects of it that
>I should be aware of?

>   An Ad in a magazine like Popular Science costs at least $125
>   (for a smallest possible size). But it goes to a very large
>   multitude of prospective buyers. Even if half a percent of
>   those think favorably, you'd be talking of thousands of 
>   prospects.

>   Direct-mail, on the other hand, goes only to the people you
>   choose. Let's see how much it'd cost to mail the letter to
>   say, 5000 addresses:


Your estimate is significantly low.  The rule of thumb I use when
evaluating an advertising idea is a direct mail package printed in 4 color
(don't even think of B/W if you're going to spend the money to mail it)
with a BRE delivered to the recipient costs about a dollar a piece.
You'll pay roughly $200 per thousand for qualified, deduped mailing lists,
more if you want to any filtering applied to the list.  You'll have to
buy a third class bulk mail permit or pay a mailing house to use theirs.
You'll pay about 38 cents for each BRE returned to you.  Then expect 
maybe 1-2% response from a GOOD mailing.  You'll do better if you
have a highly selected list but you'll pay much more for that list.

One of the trade rags recently screeched "Direct Mail is Dead."  While
I don't entirely agree with that, you must have a product with very
high profit or a very broad appeal in order to make direct mail pay.
Ad rates, in comparison, have held steady over the years (much to my
chagrin.)  You're going to spend a couple grand on any kind of 
direct mail package.  For that kind of money you can buy a whole page
ad in the smaller magazines and a significant percentage of a page 
in even the biggest. 

If you think Pop Sci readers are a good audience for your product, call
them and get a media kit.  It's free and you'll learn a bunch by 
reading it.

If your product fits in a market where there is a trade publication, you
might consider writing a feature about it.  You typically won't get paid
for writing but you're generally allowed to write just short of ad copy
and it is free.

I'd suggest staying away from direct mail.  Like the old saying goes, 
"If you can't run with the big dogs, don't get off the porch."  

John
-- 
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Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
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From: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: OFFSHORE SOFTWARE FACTORIES?
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:20:55 GMT
Reply-To: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Organization: Peirce Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Sep2.094514.235@v7.vitro.com> (misc.entrepreneurs), mzwick@vitro.com (Morris J. Zwick) writes:
> 
> Rather than use overseas labor, I have seen firms use college programmers to do
> actual code while using their experienced staff to develop requirements,
> design, and tests. The college students are provided the detailed design; the
> amount of programming they do is isolated from the whole system. After the
> college students do their unit testing, the experienced staff performs the
> integration, integration testing, system testing and release. Critical
> functions are still coded by experienced professionals.
> 
> The benefits: low cost labor (say $10/hour with no benefits), support for local
> colleges and universities in providing practical experience, and a potential
> pool of trained talent to hire when they graduate. In addition, these students
> will learn how to develop software in-the-large instead of the in-the-small
> projects done in school. This significantly reduces training requirements once
> they get out of school. Also, working closely with the departments of the
> respective schools may spur better research in software productivity.

Ten year ago while at RPI I worked in an outfit that was run something
like this.  They where developing medical system software and used
a number of students to do the grunt work.

As one of those grunt work student, I'd like to say it was great!
I got paid better than most students ($10/hr) and worked flexible hours
(extra time off around exam time, etc.) and got to work with some
excellent equipment.  Great job experience too.

Hire those college students!

P.S. You do have to make certain allowances.  Do allow extra time
off for crunch time.  And you may have to convince them to stick around
for the summer.

--  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
--  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
--                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
--  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
--            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: implementation of an idea..
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:01:46 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <DRW.92Sep7143318@euclid.mit.edu> drw@euclid.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley) writes:
>There are three skills you need:
>	- the technical expertise to deal with the implementation of
>	the idea

	This also includes enough creativty to fix conceptual flaws befor
they cause too much trouble.

>	- the ability to see how the idea can be turned into a
>	product, that is a salable commodity that satisfies a
>	perceived need

	Most of the time if you whould find it useful someone else whould too 
but this do not excuse no market research.

>	- the technical expertise to actually run a business

	This is mostly good judgement and the ablity to stay on top of
events.  But again it does not excuse not getting formal training in
management and entrepreneurship.

>The first you can buy.  The third you can buy, or alternatively, learn
>by the seat of your pants.  The second is the tricky one -- the
>transition from "everybody needs this" to "enough people are willing
>to pay money for this".  If you want to be an entrepreneur, that's the

	If people truelly want it price is not much of a deciding factor when
it comes to truelly new products, just but with in reach of the average 
american and you should be safe.

>From one who is learning the hard way,

	You can say that again.
From: Ken_J_Siegel@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Info needed to sell food product
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 92 22:22:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Sam, Iforgot to answer you question about lab tests of foods.  I was at a 
trade show last month where I read about this topic.  From memory I(I could
give you the name of the trade group to contact if you want) think it costs
in the area of $1000 for each product you want tested.  This was a hot 
topic because the FDA wants change the law requiring all foods sold
to have such nutritional info.  (the trade group represents many small
manufacturers/producers  where the $1000 lab fees would be too large
for them to handle.)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: sukenick@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (SYG)
Subject: Re: Laser Toner recharging; info wanted....
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:01:16 GMT

>> You should be able to bootstrap the remanufacturing part of the
>> business on the kitchen table for one or two thousand dollars.  The
>> other part is finding clients and getting them to do repeat business

Repeat business....and new clients, by word of mouth.  I've found
people usually not trusting of recharged toners, so you better make
sure that your product is good the first time around.  Promises
are worthless when the client cannot get good copy.  Therefore,
I suggest that you have some method of testing, such as owning or
having access to a printer.  If you don't have any QA, you'll make
and then loose a lot of business, fast.

BTW, the last few computer shows that I went to had about a halfd dozen 
recharging cos and a few who would help you start out.
From: "chris welber" <chris.welber@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: dba for partnerships?
Date: 13 Sep 92 06:42:02 EST
Reply-To: "chris welber" <chris.welber@execnet.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Executive Networks Information

JI>DBA is an abbreviation for "Doing Business As".  As I understand it, it allows
JI>you to establish a name for yourself.  You get one of these (at least in NY)
JI>at the county clerks office and it costs about $35.  Your mileage may vary.

This is correct, it also allows you to open a bank account in your DBA
name. Otherwise all you clients would have to make out personal checks to
you.

CW
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International ILink Host
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Bury the hatchet
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:22:45 GMT

Hi Y'all,

I just thought that I'd leave a note burying the hatchett on the whole MLM
issue.  I am not going to change anyone's mind.  And who's to say that I
or Areyh am right or wrong.  We both have differing opinions and for
Areyh, I would have to say that he is right.  His feelings are valid, and
he has a right to them wether they are correct or incorrect.  Who is right
does not matter.  No amount of flaming, etc. is going to change anything.
Time will tell wether or not we MLMers are right or he is.  Let time
decide.  As for me I am tired of debating and I am finished.

I do ask this however:

            If someone has a legitimate question about an MLM or such
        that person should feel free to write that question here w/o
        fear of being flamed or having a whole debate started (Some
        of us have NO access to the "alt.**" notesfiles).  Let's just
        not argue about wether it is a scam, ethical or whatever.

OK???

Peace to all.....


Jon
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:17:06 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.economics.adelaide.edu.au

In article <18hgihINN4da@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
> In article <1992Sep8.171006.10692@waikato.ac.nz> cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere) writes:
>>
>>I feel that MLMs are just as entreprenurial as other business ideas.  I advise
>>people to read the description of misc.entrepreneurs if they feel MLMs are not
>>appropriate here.  I feel that MLM should maybe be a subset of
>>entrepreneurship.  Maybe we should have misc.entrepreneur.multi-level?
> 
> For the thousandth time MLM!=Entrepreneur stop tring to make it sound so.  For
> this reason I vote no for this idea.  Also by doing this we give MLMers 
> more reconition then the deserv personally I think that if MLM was really
> reconized as a fraud you all whould be in jail.

and so we have it.  If MLM's were fraud we would be in jail, but given that I'm
not in jail (once again invalidating your generalised ALL type statements) it
obviously isn't recognised as fraud !!

What exactly do you do, oh great god who claims to be oh so successful?  You
have already said traditional business ownership styles are f*cked (is that a
reportable offence?) so maybe traditional measures of success are equally
wrong?  Maybe you equate narrowminded asshole statements as being logical?

Personally I think the idea for the group is an excellent one and maybe we can
even get one for you, personally.  Then maybe you would leave us alone.

regs

Rob
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: steveg@mks.com (Steve Gingerich)
Subject: MAG Ad's
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:19:39 GMT

I'm kind of curious as to what degree of success people have had
advertising in consumer magazines (eg. popular science, byte etc.).
Either space or classified advertising results are welcome. Include
what type of ad was used, how big, how much $, how many times run,
# of responses, what product was being offered etc...thanks...
-- 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs