From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: (old) Question For Rob Levene
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:00:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


 RAL> From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
 RAL> Date: 29 Jul 92 22:32:10 GMT
 RAL> Organization: Johns Hopkins University
 RAL> Message-ID: <9207292232.AA26163@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
 RAL> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
             -=> Quoting Robert A. Levene <=-
 >> Except for one or two chassidic groups, the poskim are by and large
 >> unconvinced that this particular sea-creature is the right one.
 RAL> 
 RAL> Harvey Smith writes:
 > I think the reason for the above, is that they didn't discover it...Hence
 > they go out of their way to be unbiblical.  (grin)
 RAL> 
 RAL> Care to back up your gratuitous slap at all the gedolim who
 RAL> happened not to hold by that particular rebbe's view on techeiles?
      Particular "Rebbe" -singular?  That is a very popular stance in
      Israel according to a large and increasing portion of the
      hassidim.  There are likewise 10's of 1,000's of folks wearing
      them, and you can buy '3rd Temple Garments' with them on it.
      If I'm not mistaken, I think it was also considered a fulfillment
      of Zoharic "prophecy" that when the little sea-creature returned
      to the shores of the sea, Moshiach would come in that generation
      and rebuild the Temple.  Only one "particular rebbe", I don't
      think so :-)
 RAL> 
 RAL> Bruce Tiffany writes:
  > non-Orthodox) Jews into "converting" to Christianity.  Now he's saying
 > he favors Messianics wearing tzitzit with blue threads (you'll see plenty
 > such tzitzit at my congregation!).  Could it be that he's tacitly admitting
 > that Messianic Jews are indeed Jews -- indeed JEWISH -- and that there's is
 > a true Jewish expression??
 RAL> 
 RAL> <pregnant pause>  Could it be that wearing the blue thread makes
 RAL> you guys easier to spot in a crowd??
     Maybe it is because Torah says: make for yourselves tzitzit for
     the corners of your garments with a thread of BLUE.
 > As I said, I haven't read everything up to this point yet, and
 > probably won't get to it for a few days, but Rob, did you ever answer
 > my question as to whether you were willing to concede that it is an
 > entirely JEWISH view to believe the scripture passages discussed
 > earlier are referring to the Messiah (even if you don't happen to
 > believe Yeshua is the Messiah)?
 RAL> 
 RAL> Perhaps there's a daas yachid which held that way, but it isn't
 RAL> the accepted pshat among rov meforshim.
      Aw come on. This is standard ancient peshitta on the various
      Midrashim Targumim etc. on these passages, even among the
      majority of the Frum today.  Simply agreeing with us on 'some'
      things is not going to make you suddenly a "Messianic" you
      know :-)  I bet you're going to try to convince us next,
      something as silly as the notion that Is. 53 is the "suffering
      servant" according to an Orthodox Majority Opinion or
      something :-O <-{Oh really?}

... 012 But, woe unto the house that the turnip enters :-) 210  
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.messianic