From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: TOO YOUNG TO CHOOSE
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  9 Nov 92 20:26:03 GMT

In <1d728aINNfb@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.210902.3556@ncsu.edu> jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE) writes:
>>On this point we are both right. There are always exceptions and always rules.
>>I favor a 24-hour waiting period. This will give those that did not do
>>enough "soul-searching" time to do so and for those that already have while
>>a minor inconvience it will not change the desicion they have come to.

>It isn't a minor inconvenience to a poor woman who cannot afford -- literally
>cannot afford -- the time spent away from work, and the money spent on a hotel
>in the only town within miles that has a clinic.

Granted, for some it is a major inconvenience. That's why I prefer a 4-hour
waiting period.  Gives the woman time to go out and have lunch, or
whatever, and study the information on risks, etc. without clinic employees
hurrying her along.

>  Nota Bene, this poor woman
>probably also cannot afford a child, which may well be one factor in her de-
>cision to abort.  But many would be content ignoring her needs, her realization
>that she cannot afford a child, that she doesn't want to face the poverty
>and want with or without a child.  The 24 hour waiting period is not an
>'inconvenience' to this woman, it is a barrier.

Meanwhile, the child is left out of the equation by Adrienne, as usual.

>>I think it is amazing that a 15 year old girl who can't drive,drink alchool,
>>buy cigarettes,vote,go into the military,etc... can get an abortion without
>>parental or judicial consent(these cases are in N.C.)

>I think it's downright amazing that a 15 year old girl who can't drive,
>drink alcohol, buy cigarettes, vote, go into the military, etc., can have
>a CHILD without parental or judicial consent!!!!!!!!!!

Is Adrienne being satirical here, or does she want to be labeled a 
"pro-abort" on this newsgroup?

>As long as we are fully informing women of the pros and cons, make damn sure
>the legal statements CLEARLY inform her she is safer to have an abortion than
>to have a baby.

Such things need to be decided on an individual basis.  For some women,
the abortion would be safer.  For others, carrying to term would be 
safer.  A thorough physical examination might reveal which category
the woman belongs in, but all too many abortionists don't give a damn
about that.  

How many abortion clinics require evidence of a physical exam by a 
competent gynecologist or GP before performing an abortion?
(My guess: less than 1%)

How many abortion clinics will give a woman a thorough exam to see
whether abortion is better for her health than carrying to term?
(My guess: less than 1%)

>  Also, the legal statements should CLEARLY inform her of the
>costs of raising a child in the US today. 

As long as we are going to be this thorough, let's also inform them
of the cost of living in retirement homes if they have no children
they can move in with.  Let's also tell them of how much social
security they are likely to get forty years from now, assuming the
system doesn't self-destruct in the meantime.

>  And let's make sure we are 
>making ALL women our audience -- not just women who want abortions.  Let's
>make sure that women who are choosing to have children know what they are
>getting into.

I don't think Mr. Blackshaw is the number one contender for the title
of "pro-abort" any more.

>What was the figure I just posted?  Something more than 80% of women in the
>United States today use birth control.  The failure rate alone for the various
>methods accounts for nearly TWICE the number of abortions in this country
>per year.  I think we are doing a dandy job educating women.  Maybe it's
>medical researchers, who should develop better birth control methods that
>you mean to educate.

Maybe the reason for the high failure rate is that women know "I can 
easily get an abortion if it fails," and many often don't care to use 
the devices properly.  

Hmm... maybe a 24 hour waiting period isn't such a bad idea...

Peter Nyikos




Newsgroups: talk.abortion