HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danl@next01pg2.wam.umd.edu (Neurotic Bob)
Subject: Re: Futuristic Pseudocussing
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:34:38 GMT

In article <73175@cup.portal.com> Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com writes:
> Hey, cut me a break.  "Shock" is still better than "Felgercarb."
> 
> PAD

Gee, I dunno, but it seems to me that when you just lost a couple hundred  
cubits to a perfect pyramid, you just might feel like saying "felgercarb"  
yourself. ;)

		--Dan'L
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Dave Sim and the Comics Journal
Organization: The Little Arrogant Squids of the Poor
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:34:49 GMT

In article <1iii9bINNpac@controversy.math.lsa.umich.edu> kens@bodwin.ifs.umich.edu (Ken Small) writes:
>I just read the lastest Cerebus, and I finally saw the letter from
>Kim Thompson that was mentioned on the net here.  What's the big deal?
>The only "sneering arrogance" I saw was that Dave couldn't accept that
>someone out there doesn't like Sandman.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into the P.S., but isn't it a bit of a 
slam? The issue Charles Vess drew is Sandman #19. So I'm assuming 
Thompson is saying Shakespeare's work is the only good writing in the
entire series. Take out that last sentence and I have no problem with
it. Put it in and I think "sneering arrogance" is accurate.

>As far as the Journal itself, I was wondering: how many people around
>here read it?  It's the only comics publication I can stand, but the
>editorials, while  coming from a perspective I appreciate, seem far
>too removed from reality these days.  I wish the Journal and
>Fantagraphics were separate entities-- perhaps the gloom of being
>responsible for such a marginal market share is the only thinh that
>keeps Gary Groth from being a decent writer *about* comics.  I think
>both Fantagraphics and the Journal are important, but they suffer by
>being too closely related.

I think you and Dave Sim agree. His main comments about Gary Groth is that
he's lost touch with the reality of comics. If you're a publisher of comics
I think that's OK. Risky, but OK. As a publisher of a magazine about 
comics, to be out of touch is a diservice to the people who read and pay
for your magazine. 

I buy Fantagraphics comics. There are some that might not be published by 
anyone else. I read the odd issue of Comics Journal. They usually still 
do interesting stuff. But even the comic Snob in me gets tired of some of
the editorial comments that come out of the Journal.

------------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith   | "According to several witnesses, the first words 
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)      |  of the Team Planters rider after his collapse
 Identify the reference and  |  were, 'Put me back on the bike.'"
  appear in a future .sig.   |      _Mr Peanut and the Blue and Yellow Jersey_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Why Vertigo?
Organization: Creator-Owned Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:51:12 GMT

In article <C0MDou.M25@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <C0K6sv.My3@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> mapkjp@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Keith John Playford) writes:
>>In the referenced article, dan@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter) writes:
>>>Unless Vertigo is offering creator-ownership  (which I doubt,
>>>considering Swamp Thing is one of the titles, and that's been a real
>>>cash cow for DC lately everywhere but in comics) then it can only
>>>provide the illusion of change.  [...]
>>
>>Judging by the copyright notice inside the Vertigo preview, the new
>>characters are, in fact, creator-owned.  
>
>We'll see what happens when new projects *STARTED* *FOR* *DC* come along.
>SEBASTIAN O, MERCY, and ENIGMA were all created for Touchmark, the high-end,
>creator-owned imprint Disney hired Art Young away from DC to edit.  When
>Disney reassessed its commitment to comics, it sold the projects to DC,
>which rehired Art along with them.

For what it's worth, Karen Berger says that they are working on bringing
new creator-owned projects to Vertigo. (The January edition of Advance 
Comics.) Not sure how many or when or what these will be. 

It should be pointed out that the Touchmark stuff are all limited series.
Mercy is a one shot, Sebastian O is three issues and Enigma runs eight 
issues. My guess is that DC won't commit to creator-owned continuing series
unless the Vertigo group sells well. They are more likely to re-create 
existing DC characters. (The least promising idea was to have an ongoing
series based around non-Gaiman Sandman characters. It would probably start
after Sandman winds down.)

Vertigo will probably end up doing some creator-owned stuff. I think
they may have to if some of the creator groups start and continue. 
Vertigo is pushing itself as the source for quality writing. The audience
for mature titles may be more likely to connect "quality" with certain
brand-name writers. If Vertigo wants the BIG PENS (tm) they may have
to offer some sort of creator-owned deal to attract them.

Of course, if Image splinters (Imago frangit?) and Dinosaur never pans
out and Tundra gets tired of losing money, then these deals might be
harder to come by. At the moment, the market seems right for creator-
owned projects, but a lot depends on the success of some non-fanboy 
creators. I don't think we've seen that yet.

More idle speculation from...

-----------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "They found him in the spring, frozen in an ice
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  block, high above any sky trail. He still wore
   Are my fiften minutes    |  his top hat, monocle and blue and yellow scarf." 
         over yet?          |         _Mr Peanut and the Glamour of the Snow_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Subject: Re: The Shadow
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:43:04 GMT

In <1993Jan3.090223.29938@rigel.econ.uga.edu> lab@pollux (Lab Administrator) writes:
>The Helfer series is MUCH more faithful to the
>character (as I understand it)  than Chaykin's bizarro miniseries.  

Well... no.  Neither series is particularly faithful to the pulp character.
However, Helfer and Baker's series was a) much funnier and b) had
considerably better characterization.

>If the Conde Nast crackdown was the true reason for the Shadow's cancellation,
>it seems completely hokey.  Besides, I would think a well-written, well-drawn
>series would be more flattering to the Shadow than the lame, completely
>bland and predictable Shadow Strikes! series.

Because Conde Nast wants to market a product, one that comes pre-packaged
and with (what is perceived as) a built-in audience.  They want their
product kept in the public eye, so they can market it into other markets
more easily.  A black-humor version of their product, no matter how
brilliantly written (and the Helfer/Baker version *was* -- I'd pay $20 for a
thin graphic novel by Helfer and Baker finishing that plotline up), is doing
this for them.

*Sigh*.  Damn shame...

                           "A robot watches a bad film.  It renders
                            him...unconscious.  Next...on Rescue... 911."

                                           -- MST3K
----
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Best Death? (Was Re: Random thoughts on Supes)
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:33:12 GMT

kens@psc.lsa.umich.edu (Ken Small) writes:
>: >Yep.  Rorschach. 

>I think you can find a better death just 11 issues before.  Eddie
>Blake's death made sense, was permaanent, and made a quite poignant
>point about that role of violence in a supposedly civilized world.

I might agree, except that at the time nobody knew enough about
him to care.  And some probably would have been pleased if they did
know about him.
-- 
Things will be brighter tonight.  A cop will shine a light in your face.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mamcconnell@happy.colorado.edu (Mark (MacBear) McConnell)
Subject: LSH: Deaths and continuity
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:07:39 MDT

One of the reasons that I have read the LSH for so many years, is
that it was the closest to possible stories, when you consider that
it is populated by people with extra abilities.  However, since the
day that Jim Shooter had the cover done for the Adult Legion story
in the Sixties, we the readers had a possible future to pursue.

When Ferro Lad was introduced a little later, the fans knew his life
was limited, as well as Chemical King, and Shadow Lass.  However,
no one knew how limited.  So Ferro Lad was killed within a few issues,
Chemical King took a few years, and Tasmia Mallor is still with us.
I still don't understand the Reflecto storyline and do not intend to
comment on the latest retcon.

All along, the Legion stories were written for readers who wanted 
to read about hero relationships, and who happened to fight once 
in a while.  The current series still does that.  I would have no
problem with it if... it did not depend on stupid, silly, plot
devices to make a new story.  Why did they NEED to destroy the
Moon and Earth?  Was Keith and T&M so desperate for stories, that
they had to try a story for shock value?  This is my real gripe
with the current story.

The value of the old series was that it took place in the future;
therefore, it was not a part of the general DC continuity.  Once
they joined it to the regular continuity, it got fuddled up.  Now
a series with outstanding stories is a waste of writing in terms
of ideas.

mam

-- 
Mark (Sidewinder) McConnell  | 
mamcconnell@uccs.edu         | 
mamcconne@colospgs.BITnet    |
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Matt Wagner Stuff.
Date: 8 Jan 1993 13:44:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


pduggan@world.std.com (Paul C Duggan) says:

>I was wondering if anyone had any info on the Aerialist, a Matt
>Wagner story that was appearing in Dark Horse Presents. Have there

Looks like he hung it up after he restarted Grendel.
 Wagner's not very good at doing more than one thing
 at a time.  I hope his work for Vertigo isn't going
 to shut down Grendel.

>And what happened to Mage II?

Didn't the interview in Grendel WC #1 have a quote 
 like "Don't ask, I don't want to talk about it!" ?
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC: Vertigo Preview
Date: 5 Jan 1993 14:05:53 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Dani Zweig (dani@netcom.com) writes:

>Sandman Mystery Theatre:  The further adventures of the Golden Age
>Sandman.  By Matt Wagner, which counts for something.  The preview
>reminds me of Baker Street for some reason.

Maybe that's because Gary Davis did both.

I was enthused by the mention of Tarantula, half of my favorite neo-Golden Age
couple.

------------------------------
                             |     "What's that noise?" I asked Val.  "Sounds
Jim Drew                     | like an electric razor."
jrd@frame.com                |     "Ron's shaving," I was told.
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       |     "Shaving?  Ron?  The guy who thinks everyone
"Innocent, but not naive."   | would look better with a beard, even Madonna?"
B(2)h t c k s g+(p) rv p e   |     "Who said anything about shaving his
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | *beard?*" Val said, and scratched idly at his
{opinions: mine != frame's}  | chest.
                             |		- Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Next Weeks Comics
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:22:14 GMT

With some recent changes of scheduling at Sparta, your comics may be arriving
a day earlier. Starting next week, if your store has been getting a comic 
shipment on Thursday, it may get it on Wednesday instead. (Likewise, some
people who have been getting new comics on Friday, may be seeing them on
Thursday.) A lot of this depends on which distributor your local shop deals
with, but to avoid missing the New Comics Day Feeding Frenzy, you might 
want to check to see if the shop will be getting its shipment earlier. 

Disclaimer: Don't blame me! I don't work in any facet of the industry!

----------------------------
 Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "I'm sorry, but our survey of the target audience
   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  shows that the kids just aren't interested in
 Unsalted X-Peanuts: The   |  peanuts. Unless you can come up with mutant
   Death of Dark Peanix    |  powers, we're going to have to cancel the title."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: DC: CV Extra:  Superman to resume in 2 weeks
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:08:29 GMT

In article <9301122100.AA16174@lynx.corp.frame.com> jrd@frame.com (James Drew) writes:
>
>(Reference to "Yes.  It's a laser capable of emitting a beam of pure
>anti-matter."  >Then it's not a laser!<)

Isn't a photon its own antiparticle? (I remember hearing that
somewhere...) Which means that *every* laser emits a beam of
antiphotons, which is to say, a beam of "pure antimatter". So Rif was
right after all.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston)
Subject: Swamp Thing (was Re: DC: misc stuff)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:55:19 GMT

vcz40@jester.usask.ca (Vanessa C. Zondervan) writes:

>Swamp Thing: Y'know, in the (relatively) short time I've had access to
>this group, I've been amazed by how many people run down Collins' work on
>this title. I inquired around town (Saskatoon) as to the sales of Swamp
>Thing, and was told they were quite low (no joke), but it was on >Doug
>Wheeler's< tenure that this happened. It seems that, if anything, it is
>getting marginally >more< popular now. 


The current Swamp Thing issues are better than the Wheeler issues, IMHO,
but not as good as the Moore and Veitch issues.  The Wheeler issues were
poor enough that I actually dropped the title, and came back on when
Nancy Collins took over.  Unfortunately, I've been unimpressed with
her stuff.  There are good and bad points to her run on the book:

The pacing of the book doesn't do much for me.  It seems like Collins 
builds a little suspense, but rather than sustaining it or increasing
it, she ends it too quickly.  The two-parter where Tefe was kidnapped
by the child molester is a good example of this.  I did actually
feel there was suspense at the end of the first part, because of the
threat that Tefe would be harmed, and she would basically go
berserk with all the elemental power she could muster.  The second
part of the story summarily wrapped things up, with no increase in
suspense.

Looking at the latest issues, the artwork is really unimpressive.
The toxic waste monster looks like a standard, unrealistic,
gobbledy-gook monster.  I found it impossible to believe that the
thing was alive because it looked so unrealistic.

I have liked the way the supporting cast is used.  However, I'm
a little worried that Collins has written Chester and Liz out of
the story without introducing anyone new.

Overall, I feel the book is OK, but not up to the standards of
earlier runs of the title.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: Fantastic Four
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:17:37 GMT

In article <1iht7tINN460@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones) writes:
> In article <ucc1wB13w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
>>As an excercise in optimistic fantasy, who do you think should be writing 
>>it [Fantastic Four]? I woudl suggest: 

What about Bill Willingham, assuming he would consent to work on property he
didn't own (this is optimistic fantasy, right?).  He's one of the few people to
make superheroes that "stop acting like we're in a comic book".

Joel
-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
"We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
  -- from _Sneakers_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: kamg@ecf.toronto.edu (KAM GREGORY K)
Subject: BATMAN:TAS figures and trading cards....
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:43:18 GMT


Out from Kenner in Feb-Mar:

Turbojet Batman     Combatbelt Batman     Two-Face     Riddler
Joker               Man-Bat (!)           Skydive Batman
Infrared Batman     Powerline Batman      Scarecrow    Ninja Robin

Jokermobile
Batmobile
Batcycle

...all based on the animated series...


Also from Topps:

100 card set    - 50 cards based on scenes from the episodes
                - 50 cards based on characters, weapons, and vehicles
 and of course we must have ...

SIX RANDOMLY INSERTED MINI-CELS!

Sound cool?   They also have a Sugg. Ret. Price of .....  $57.00 Cdn!

But yes, they still sound cool....


Greg
From: ibanez@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Ways around Supes' invulnerability?(was re:cloning)
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:59:15 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

   Maybee I shouldn't be getting into this, seeing as I don't read the Superman
titles...  what the hell...


I thought that post Byrne Supes' invulnerability came in part from some kind
of forcefield he generated. If he is dead, is it still operational? If not, 
I think those Cadmus boys could get a cell sample.

I think cloning Superman will be sucessful in a non-Bizzarro way, even though 
Lex's guys couldn't. If I remember the particular issue of Man of Steel
(the mini series), the problem was that the matrix used to clone him was
created on the assumption that he was human. Now that everyone knows that
he is not, that may make cloning possible.

What the *$#*$ happended to Doomsday? Is he dead? Maybee we could grab one
of his claws (or spikes, or whatver they were) to scrape a sample of Supes.

The only thing more pitiful than this whole death of Superman crap is that
I am actually interested in how they will bring him back. This entire
marketing ploy makes me glad I read the issues on the rack, and left them
there for some other winner to buy. 



-- 
                             Jamie Lauchlan 
 ______________________________________________________________________________
 ______________________________________________________________________________

    _   ___
   / `-'  (              III       
   |( II  ||||||||||||||[***]           1978 MusicMan Stingray
   \_.-.__(               l               Thanks Leo (R.I.P.)

               "BASS IS SOME SERIOUS SHIT" - Bill Laswell
 ______________________________________________________________________________
 ______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer)
Subject: Re: SUPERMAN RETURNS AS FOURSOME CONFIRMED BY DC ON ET
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:30:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.165846.7912@news.nd.edu> mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
>
> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes:
>
>|> On Entertainment tonight we got to see some of the new art for Superman's 
>|> "Return" from the dead.  It goes like this.
>|>      Pa Kent dies, and meets Kal at the Gates Of Whatever.  The two draw on 
>|> each other's strength and love for each other and return to the land of the 
>|> living.  But there must be a difficulty in Kal's return because:
>|>      Four people (Teenager, Steel Worker, Warrior and Alien Cyborg) with 
>|> Superman-level powers surface, each claiming to be Supes.
>
>Soon to be followed by Mary Superman, Uncle Dudley Superman, and the three
>Lieutenant Supermen: Fat Superman, Tall Superman and Short Superman.

Don't forget my favorite - Beepo the Supermonkey. 
-- 
John Switzer               | "What we have here is a failure to 
                           | masticate."
Compuserve: 74076,1250     | -- MST3K's Dr. Clayton "Firebrand" Forrester, 
Internet: jrs@netcom.com   | after TV's Frank is unable to eat his 13th turkey.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: 003695s@axe.acadiau.ca (STEPHANE ANDRE SAVOIE)
Subject: Re: Marvel copies DC... again
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:18:20 GMT


>>however... I LOVED the X-Men/New Mutants' trip to Asgard... but trying to
>>fit them into Atlantis Attacks brought a whole new meaning to the word
>>"contrived".  I only complain when the writing suffers...   :P

>Can someone explain what this means? The ATLANTIS ATTACKS X-Men Annual had
>the X-Men against Mr. Jip and the Serpent Society (my vote for most
>oddball villian teamup!) The New Mutants Annual had the Mutants finding a
>large seashell and calling up a big ugly sea monster. Unless there's
>another X-Men/New Mutants trip to Asgard I'm missing. (And I don't think
>he meant that last pre-Liefeld NM story, either...)

  No, he's comparing X-men/Mutants annual of two (three?) years 
before those during Atlantis Attacks.  Excellent story.  This is also where 
Dani first becomes a Valkerie (back when it _seemed_ like a good idea at the 
time, and could have been if handled right (like that issue a bit after the 
Beyonder killed them all (#41?)).

**********************************************************************
   kid      /       *  Steph Savoie        Acadia U, Nova Scotia, Can
      ____/ |_      *  a.k.a.  KID ANARKY   <<003695S@axe.acadiau.ca>>
     /  /   | \     * ["Men used to sell their souls for immortality,
 ___|_/_____|__|___ *  now they sell them for jobs.  The human souls
    /       |  |    *  devalued currency; oh how the devil must be
  /  \______|_/     *  laughing..."  - Grant Morrison, HellBlazer #26]
/           |       *  alt.comics.lnh: Continuity?  What's that?
**********************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc