HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Finnish? (WAS: Pakko
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<TORKEL.92Nov20115405@isis.sics.se> <1992Nov22.162708.10459@cs.hut.fi>
	<TORKEL.92Nov22222250@bast.sics.se> <1992Nov23.162234.27181@cs.hut.fi>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:55:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.162234.27181@cs.hut.fi> linnan@silver-surfer.cs.hut.fi
 (Matti Linnanvuori) writes:

   >Still, if the Tornedal dialect were spoken in Finland, it would
   >certainly be consider a dialect of Finnish.

  No doubt. My point is only this, that calling these people "Finns"
in ignorance of what they would call themselves is at best misleading.
Many of the people in Tornedalen who speak this version of Finnish would
be upset and angered at being referred to as "Finns", others would just
laugh. It seems to me that those who profess to espouse the rights of
minorities should make a serious attempt to find out how those minorities
view themselves.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Keskustelua suomalaisten asemasta Ruotsissa
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:58:11 GMT

Tor Lillqvist (tml@tik.vtt.fi) wrote:
:    In article <1992Nov16.084221.25198@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
:    >Mielenkiintoista on todeta, kun kopioin arvostetun ruotsalaisen tiedemiehen
:    >kirjoittaman artikkelin Ruotsin valtion harjoittamasta kielisyrjinn{st{
:    >suomalaisia  kohtaan Ruotsissa, en saanut yht{{n kommenttia ruotsalaisilta 
:    >tai edes suomalaisilta itse asian sis{ll|st{.
: 
: Joo, mutta t{rke{t{ olisikin osata esitt{{ yhteenveto n{ist{
: arvostettujen tiedemiesten kirjoituksista, eik{ viitaten niihin
: esitt{{ omia (tahallisesti?) yliampuvia v{itteit{ tai rinnastuksia
: natsi-Saksaan. T[llaista tuskin arvostetut tiedemiehet esitt{v{t, tai
: sitten heid{ arvostuksensa on hyvin suppean piirin sis{ll{.

Aloita luku seuraavasta:Invadrare och Minoriteter 3/1992. Monet muut 
aikaisemmat sen lehden artikkelit ovat k{sitelleet asiaa. Sitten seuraavaksi
esimerkiksi: Wande E. 1991. Suomen kielen status Ruotsissa tai Py|li &
Wande, Karjala ja Ruotsin Tornionlaakso.
Tai: Hanseg}rd N.E.1990 Den Norrbottniska spr}kfr}gan, Uppsala.
Tai: Carelia 10/1992 (Petroskoissa ilmestyv{ aikakauskirja)
Tai lehdist|: Ruotsinsuomalainen, ilmestyy Tukholmassa.
N{it{h{n juuri olen referoinut!!

Ihmiset luulevat, ett{ joku Ryyti keksii kaiken itse. En ole niin fiksu,
kiitos kuitenkin. Erling Wande ty|skentelee Tukhoman yliopiston suomen kielen
laitoksella. Tekee aiheesta tutkimusta Tampereen yliopiston suomen kielen
laitoksen kanssa Heikki Paunonen.

Fennofobia: L{hde ]land Tidningen 9.10.1992

Kun olen nyt t{m{n kertonut, niin voisitko yst{v{llisesti ilmaista omat
l{hteesi, jotka kumoavat edelliset l{hteet, jossa todetaan, koskien
esim. Norrbottenia, ett{ mit{{n sellaista ei ole tapahtunutkaan mit{
on tapahtunut. Ent{p{ l{hteesi Mets{suomalaisista-eik| heit{ mielest{si
ole ollutkaan olemassa?

Esit{ l{hteet ja todista se. Min{ l|yd{n tarvittaessa l{hteet, jossa
todetaan, ett{ heit{ vainottiin j{rjestelm{llisesti ja koko kansanryhm{n
kulttuuri tuhottiin.

Oletko sit{ mielt{, ett{ jos kansanmurha toteutetaan Amazonasin viidakoissa
sit{ pit{{ paheksua, mutta W{rmlannin metsiss{ toteutettua samanlaista
 prosessia ei, ett{ kysymys onkin ihan eri asiasta, ett{ onkin itse
asiassa luonnollista ett{ niin k{vi. Sittenh{n on luonnollista ett{ 
Amazonasin intiaanit h{vi{v{t maailman kartalta? Vai!
Miten pid{t n{it{ kahta asiaa erilaisina? Ole hyv{ kerro.
Min{ en n{e niiden v{lill{ nimitt{in mit{{n eroa, paitsi ett{ V{rmlannissa
homman hoitivat ruotsalaiset, Brasiliassa eiv{t.
Terveisin,
jarmo

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (mats dahlgren)
Subject: Re: address needed for Stockholm Uni
Reply-To: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:25:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.162937.5395@epas.toronto.edu>, pgiltner@epas.utoronto.ca (Philip W. Giltner Jr.) writes:
>Hi. I need some one to provide me with a real-world  and if possible,
>an email, address for the Department of History at the University of
>Stockholm. A phone number also would be good.
>
>
Here you are:

     Dept. of History
     Stockholms Universitet
     S-106 91  Stockholm
     Sweden
     Ph: +46-8-16 20 00 (exchange board)
     Fx: +46-8-15 36 93 (central administration)

/mats d.

mats dahlgren                              *   "Jag finns bara sporadiskt   *
Dept. of Physical Chemistry                *        men med relativt        *
The Royal Institute of Technology          *         stor spridning"        *
S-100 44  Stockholm, Sweden                *          -Gina Jacobi          *

  <matsd@physchem.kth.se>    Ph: +46 8 790 8595    Fx: +46 8 790 8207     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen)
Subject: General strike starts in Finland on Thursday 06: 00 local time.
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:15:51 GMT

ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik ) writes:
>Speaking about economics and Finland, my mother told me something
>strange about a possible general work blockage by workers in Finland.
>Could someone please let us know what is going on over there, thx?

The chief of SAK, the central organization of Finnish trade unions (I
hope I got it right :-), Lauri Ihalainen, would like to start a
general strike in Finland on Thursday, 26 Nov, 06:00 local time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Tasa-arvopuheet ovat osoittautuneet korulauseiksi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:40:33 GMT

Vesa Mikkonen kirjoittaa Ruotsinsuomalaisessa 12.11.92 (lyhennelm{):

Olemme saanet kokea, miten kuka tahansa pikkuvirkamies tai muuten
merkitykset|n kunnallispoliitikko voi rakentaa uransa lakkauttamalla
mink{ tahansa suomenkielisen yhteiskuntapalveluno li se sitten suomalaiselle
v{est|lle miten t{rke{ ja tarpeellinen tahansa.
......
......
P{{tt{j{t puhuvat kauniisti siit{, ett{ suomalaiset, jotka ovat antaneet
ratkaisevia ty|-, kulttuuri- ja historiallisia panoksia ruotsalaiselle
yhteiskunnalle tulee kohdella aivan erikoisella l{mm|ll{.
.......

Todellisuudessa hallitus on p{{tt{nyt, ett{ suomenkielisi{ TV- ja radio-
ohjelmia tullaan v{hent{m{{n vuoden -93 alusta. Lis{ksi l{hetysaikoja
tullaan muuttamaan l{hemm{ksi keskip{iv{{.
......

Ruotsin painostus ja halveksunta meit{ suomalaisia kohtaan alkoi virallisesti
v. 1153. Nyt marraskuussa 10 Euroopan maata allekirjoitti kielellisten
v{hemmist|jen kielellisten oikeuksien turvaamisen ja kunnioittamisen. Suomi
oli heid{n joukossaan. Ruotsi ei katsonut tarpeelliseksi seurata n{it{
10 eurooppalaista maata, vaan Ruotsi jatkaa v{hemmist|ihins{ kohdistuvaa
kielirasismiaan, jota se on harjoittanut aina. My|s meid{n suomalaisten
lapsilta Ruotsi yritt{{ riist{{ identiteetin, kielen ja kulttuurin.
.......

Den sista delen p} svenska av Vesa Mikkonen i Ruotsinsuomalainen:

Den svenska pressning och f|raktining b|rjade officiellt }r 1153. Nu 
i november 10 Europeiska l{nder undertecknade skydd och aktning f|r spr}kliga
minoriteter och spr}kliga r{ttigheter. Suomi var bland dem. Sverige 
s}g inte nyttigt att f|lja de h{r europeiska l{nder, utan forts{tter
sin spr}krasism, den som den har ut|vat alltid. Ocks} av v}ra finnarnas barn
Sverige f|rs|ker ber|va identitet, spr}k och kultur.

The last part in english, written by Esa Mikkonen in  Ruotsinsuomalainen:

The opression of Sweden against us the Finns started officially the year
1153. Now in november 10 European countries undersigned  protection
and respect for the linguistic minorities. Finland was among them.
Sweden did not see it necessary to follow these 10 European countries,but
Sweden continues language-rasism against her  minorities, which she has
practised allways. Also from from the children of us, the Finns,
Sweden tries to deprive the identity, language and culture.

Translated by,
Jarmo Ryyti
En Finne igen

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik stman)
Subject: Re: Svenska spraket
Reply-To: euafri@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:54:52 GMT

H. Peter Anvin writes:
>Bertil Jonell writes:
> >Jarmo Ryyti writes:
>> >Varf|r Tyskland och tyskar men Finland och finlandare?
>> >Kunde nagon forklara denna skilaktigheten?
>>   D{rf|r att ordet 'finne' har en dubbelbetydelse som du kan fr}ga
>> J|rn Donner om.

>V{nta nu h{r, {r det inte s} att finne = finsk etnisk backgrund (normalt
>finsktalande) medan finnl{ndare = finsk medborgare (antingen svensk eller
>finsk etnicitet och modersm}l)?

Jaha ja, d} var vi tillbaka i ruta noll. Har Jarmo en kommentar till ovanst}ende?

---
         ______                     _~
        (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
       __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
From: lvandyke@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Lee Van Dyke)
Subject: E-mail Address for Motorola in Stockholm wanted
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:52:57 GMT

Can someone please give me the email address of motorola in
Stockholm? I am trying to contact my friend, Bengt Baeckstroem
who works there.


Thanks,

--
Lee Van Dyke
      lvandyke@balboa.eng.uci.edu,
UUCP: infotec!Infotec.COM!lee@sunkist.West.Sun.COM
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Rumpelstilchen (was Finnish: A world language?)
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:46:45 GMT
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

In article <1992Nov12.211219.25964@Csli.Stanford.EDU>, kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU writes:
>/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und
>c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr
>   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
>  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On the subject of useless language instruction in high school, I
actually heard that tale during my high-school German. Wasn't the
little feller called "Rumpelstilchen"? And when the queen told him
"Heisst du vielleicht Rumpelstilchen?" on her third and final try to get
her child back from this not-so-pleasant creature of the woods, he
replied "Der Teufel hat dir das gesagt!" and tore himself apart from
head to toe, or?

The sens morale of the story is, that if Finnish had been an offical
language of Sweden (for one reason or another), I would probably never
have studied German, and then I would not have known about
Rumpelstilchen, and frankly, that would have been an unbearable loss of
cultural enlightment! :-)

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

"These latter-day practitioners of surface chemistry reflect a lingering of the
adventurous spirit of the Enlightment" -- Charles Tanford
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Keskustelua suomalaisten asemasta Ruotsissa
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:09:53 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <1992Nov19.103930.7204@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>Well I compare Finland and Sweden. Why there are so many so called
>halvspr}kiga in Sweden? A result of the education policy. It is proved
>in many ways that the policy Sweden has towards the immigtants in
>education  harmful because it produces halvspr}kiga people. 
>Halvspr}kiga:persons who cannot neither swedish nor their own mother tongue.

  Yes, there has been talk in this direction and I've heard representatives
of several immigrant organizations agree that the education policy results in
halvspr}kighet.

  But you are not telling the whole truth, just half of it. They feel that
it is the hemspr}ksundervisning that takes too much time from the Swedish
language education. There isn't enough hemspr}ksundervisning to teach them
that language properly and they, would probably need *more* Swedish language
education instead of *less*.

  One solution is that the immigrant organizations handle whatever language 
education they wish to arrange and that the public schools give immigrant
children *extra* Swedish language education.

  But you wouldn't like that would you?

>Jarmo Ryyti

-bertil-
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Keskustelua suomalaisten asemasta Ruotsissa
Summary: Are you sure your name isn't "Jarmo Rahmi"?
Date: 17 Nov 92 09:02:43 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <hberg.207@polisci.umn.edu> hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.084221.25198@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>Mielest{ni, tosin vain omasta mielest{ni,Ruotsin vertaus Nazi-Saksaan ei ole 
>>kaukaa haettu.
>>Jarmo

>A translation for you slobs who haven't bothered to learn Finnish:
>
>"In my opinion, my personal opinion to be sure, the comparison of Sweden to 
>Nazi Germany is not far fetched.

  Jarmo! I publicly dare you to post to talk.politics.middle-east and
soc.culture.jewish and claim that what Nazi Germany did is was no worse
than when Sweden don't have compulsory Finnish for all school children in
Sweden!

  Are you even aware how many millions (I get it to about 20) you insult with
those comparisions?

  Do you even care?

-bertil-
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
From: kjell@emke.chalmers.se (Kjell Siimon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: More Danes on the line, please!
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:22:42 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


Subject says it all.
The Stockholmers are a majority. ;-)


Kjell the Brave
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: The Finns of Sweden
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:15:46 GMT
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic

In article <1992Nov20.054933.14217@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
wrote:
> :  I would still like to know if Mr. Ryyti could address this issue.
> :  Does he maintain his view that it was a complete genocide (=folkmord)
> :  and if so, how does he explain my existence??
 
> Would you like to enlighten me which kind institutions the State of Sweden
> organized for this minority during centuries,
> for instance in the field of Finnish speaking
> education? Some examples only, you need not explain all. Are there for instance
> still remnants of Finnish schools in W{rmland? Can you point out places?

Jarmo, do you really know the implications behind genocide, I don't
think you are non-intellectual, and it seems you are desperate to 
try to map a cultural dissemination into an artificial label (genocide).
Sorry, won't work, and it only is an insult to people that have actually
encountered real genocides, not to speak about insulting a country.

You could as well then state that genocide is happening all over
Finland in Swedish speaking villages where they close the schools
due to lack of pupils :-).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Finnish? (WAS: Pakkoruotsi Suomen kouluissa)
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:34:39 GMT

Bertil Jonell (d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
: In article <WALVER.92Nov13084010@kielo.uta.fi> walver@uta.fi (Ville Walveranta) writes:
: >) Why not? I've seen number of threads here in soc.culture.nordic
: >) in Swedish about Swedish matters
: >d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes in soc.culture.nordic:
: >> Complain to the author of most of them then: J*rmo Ryyti
: >        Most of what?
: 
:   Most of the recent threads in Swedish, have been started, in Swedish, by
: J*rmo Ryyti.
: 
: >	I think it's all right to have the message threads
: >        in Swedish in soc.culture.nordic, but so should it be all right
: >        to have the threads in Finnish as well.
: 
:   Sure, but note that I've responded in English to the posts in Swedish, just
: because a large part of the readership here don't speak Swedish.

Yeah, I have started using recently swedish in this group and I am called
a swedefobe
My opinion is that in soc. culture . nordic nordic languages should be
used. It is not my responsibility or shame if people do not know foreign
languages for instance in the States..
 I use to follow sometimes french, german and russian group and
in those groups french, german and russian is widely used. Nordic group
should use swedish, norwegian, finnish, danish,icelandic, saami etc.
and those who cannot understand should blame themselves  and start learning
languages. I just wonder if someone is interested in Nordic culture but do not
want to know the languages spoken in the Nordic countries. And I just like
to point out to our american friends that finnish is after swedish most
spoken language in the Nordic countries.
The Nordic netters should rise their profile a little in this sence I think.


Regards,
jarmo

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Saami in Finland
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:07:51 GMT

In article <ksand-171192122524@wintermute.apple.com>, ksand@apple (Kent Sandvik ) writes:
>I wonder if Mr. Ryyti would also push for Saami to become a
>third official language in Finland. Remember that both Finns
>and Swedes chased this native group up far to the north when
>they both conquered Finland. BTW, there are many place names
>that still are originated from Saami names.

It (or they?) recently was made an official language in a few
(distrticts?  kommuns/kunnissa) in Northern Lapland.  A couple of
years ago, I think.  I have no details what this means, but I think
they can at least get teaching of their mother tongue and take care of
their errands with the officials with it.

The position of Saami people in Finland is pretty much the same as the
Finnish-speaking people in Swedish Tornedalen, by the way.  I don't
think Finnish has any official position in Tornedalen, though, even
while many people and probably officials can speak it.  There's
cooperation across the border with things like hospital emergencies.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Alaska!??
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:52:29 GMT

In article <2H781PL@netmbx.netmbx.de> snuffy@netmbx.netmbx.de (R.J. Bartle)
 writes:

   >Where is the talk abaouit the "Nordics" on the other side of the Pole
   >or around the bottom on the other side of the big lake! - In Alaska!

  The group alt.culture.alaska has just now appeared. If you don't get
the alt hierarchy, I don't think there is any Alaska group for you.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Finns of Norway
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:22:38 GMT

In article <921021.053515.achristo@nutri1> achristo@pons.uio.no (Alf Christophersen) writes:



>>
>>Norway has a Finnmark county, but the name "Finn" does not refer to
>>Finns but to Saami. Question: Did the word Finn originally have a different
>>meaning, like "foreign", compare the Welsh (originally
>>meaning foreign)?

>See above. I rather think it means 'a man with an inunderstandable
>way of talking' :-)

'Finn' originally meant 'hunter', I think.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Help with homebrew translation
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:12:07 GMT


I recently visited Finland and, being a beginning homebrewer,
was delighted to find homebrewing equipement in Stockmanns.  I 
picked up a can of Sahti extract to try and was out of Finland
before I realized that it probably won't follow the "standard"
procedure.  A can of this size should make 5 gallons but it looks
like it only makes 6 liters.  Could someone help me out and 
translate the following?  I'll lift a glass of Sahti to you :)

(I'm sorry, I don't know the symbols for a doubledot and o doubledot,
I'll denote them by (ad) and (od) respectively.)

1.  Kiehautetaan 21 vett(ad), johon mallasuute kaadetaan.  Sekoitetaan
huvin ja kaadetaan k(ad)ymisastiaan.  Lis(ad)t(ad)(ad)n kylm(ad)(ad)
vett(ad), kunnes kokonaism(ad)(ad)r(ad) on 6 litraa.

2.  Varmistaudutaan, ett(ad) sahtivierteen l(ad)mp(od)tila on 25-30o
C.  Oluthiiva turvotetaan tilkossa haaleaa vett(ad) noin 10 min. enner
kuin se lis(ad)t(ad)(ad)n sahtivierteeseen.

3.  K(ad)ymisastia peitet(ad)(ad)n puhtaala liinalla.  Jos muovkanisteria
tai lasipulloa k(ad)ytet(ad)(ad)n, tulpan tilalle pannaan vesilukko tai
pumpulitukko.  Astia pidet(ad)(ad)n nolm 20o C l(ad)mp(od)tilassa.

4.  K(ad)yminen alkaa vuorokauden kuluessa ja p(ad)(ad)ttyy noin 2-3
vrk:n sis(ad)ll(ad).

5.  Sahti pullotetaan puhtaisiin pulloikin tai muovikanistereihin,
jotka siirret(ad)(ad)n kylm(ad)(ad)n.

6.  Sahit on valmista nautittavaksi noin viikon kuluttua.  Pohjalle
laskeutuonut sakka v(ad)ltet(ad)(ad)n kaatamalla varovasti.

T(ad)rke(ad)(ad):  kaikkien v(ad)lineiden oltava ehdottomasti
puhtaita.


Thanks so much,
Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else.
From: mjensen@cs.utexas.edu (Marc S. Jensen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Denmark and Maastricht -- Questions
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:29:50 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: grit.cs.utexas.edu

Greetings...

I have several questions regarding Denmark and the Maastricht treaty and
such.  Opinions, guesses, or estimated answers are encouraged...  As I'm
sure everyone in this newsgroup knows, the US media does not exactly lavish
attention on matters European, except currently to pick on the French and
their farm subsidies. :-)  So, I'm posting my questions here.

At any rate, I am curious to know, first of all, exactly what the status
of Maastricht (and I am well aware that I may be spelling it incorrectly;
what do you expect with a name like that?) is in Denmark.  Soon to be 
decided on, already decided, largely ignored, or what?
Assuming that the matter has not already been decided (in which case this
entire question should be ignored), does anyone want to hazard a guess as to
what the decision will be, and to what extent the treaty will have to be
modified to be accepted?  How will the rest of the EC react to this?  Will
they even care?
To what extent, if at all, will the Danish decision affect the Norwegian and
Swedish decisions on whether or not to become part of this whole EC mess?  Will
*they* even care?

[Personally, I think we should form a United States of Norden, possibly with
the former Soviet Baltic republics as associate members, then recapture 
areas like northern Poland and, say, Germany north of Hamburg, and 
gradually become the central power-block of Europe.  Then the rest of the
EC could graciously be allowed to come sign the Treaty of Copenhagen (or 
whereever) so things would be done *right*.  <grin>]

Cheers,
		-Marc


----------		            ---------- 	        	     ----------
mjensen@cs.utexas.edu             Marc S. Jensen            University of Texas
mjensen@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu         512/345-5004        Dept of Computer Science
----------                          ----------                       ----------
  "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good
         because they had no claws."	-- Friedrich Nietzsche