HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Gore- "Guns & hunting should be outlawed!"
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:22:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.224741.14331@oakhill.sps.mot.com>,
pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) writes:
|>In article <1992Jul17.154948.15490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
|>ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes:
|>>
|>>   I was just told by a friend that Gore is on the record for stating
|>that
|>>guns and hunting should be illegal, is this true?! I was also told
|>that his
|>>wife has tried to censor music in major ways. Anybody care to give me
|>more
|>>background on both of them?
|>
|>National Taxpayer Union rates Gore the #1 biggest spender in the
|>Senate, '89-'90.
|>
|>He was one of only a handful of Democrats who voted for the Gulf War.
|>I think it had something to do with not making the same political
|>mistake
|>his father made.

Both Gore Jr and Gore Sr opposed Vietnam.

Can there be any doubt now that they were right too? The US invasion
caused a million deaths and was only sustained by a President who was an
outright crook. The war destroyed the USA's world position and the
defeat destroyed national self confidence. Is there any possible reason
why the war should have been fought?

Voting for a war one does not beleive in to further one's career is to
sell one's sould.


Phill Hallam-Baker 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: barrett@cloudgen1.gatech.edu (James Barrett)
Subject: Re: USPS (Was: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark)
Organization: Georgia Tech College of Computing
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:00:42 GMT

ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:

><In article <barrett.712247509@cc.gatech.edu> barrett@cloudgen1.gatech.edu (James Barrett) writes:
><ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><><In article <45552@shamash.cdc.com> paul@svl.cdc.com (Paul Kohlmiller) writes:
><><   rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

><><   >king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) writes:
><> < Well, let's think about this for a minute. The Postal Service comes
><> <  pretty close to paying for itself and it does a good job compared to
><> <  other countries postal systems. 
><>	On which planet, please? In the U.S. (on Earth), the
><>	Postal Service has never paid for itself,
><  Huh?  The USPS gets no taxpayer money, so if it isn't supporting itself,
><   where does it's support come from?
>	Huh? Is the position of "Postmaster General" still a
>	Federal position or not? 

I never said it wasn't a federal entity, only that it *does* pay for itself.
The Postal Service will remind you time and time again every time it asks
for a rate increase that it doesn't receive federal money.

><They 
><   *routinely* ignore call tags because UPS gets paid regardless of whether
><   the item is picked up or not and the drivers simply write "customer refused
><   to give item" on the sheet without going anywhere near the pick-up site.
> 
>	Not in my experience.

So?  How wide is your experience?  I was just offering an alternative 
view of this wonderful company you offer up as an alternative to the USPS.
I think you'll find that they care as little about quality as govt-run
businesses.

><  (I work for a company which does warranty repair service through UPS 
><   delivery.)  I have certainly seen UPS lose many, many parcels.
>	Tell me, if your company is displeased with UPS, why
>	not switch services? Try Airborne or Federal Express;
>	you have a choice, exercise it!

We're considering.  I'm not involved in the decision, however.

><James C. Barrett (barrett@cc.gatech.edu)| "I'm speechless...               
><Georgia Tech College of Computing       |      I am without speech." - George
>	Neat name for your company; "Georgia Tech".
I just "study" there.  I "work" elsewhere.
---------------------OS/2 v2.0 -- It's heeeeerrrreee!!!!!-----------------------
James C. Barrett (barrett@cc.gatech.edu)| "I'm speechless...               
Georgia Tech College of Computing       |      I am without speech." - George
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36462 ca.politics:6114 ba.politics:3853
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Fear or loathing?  So what?
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:22:50 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

Clayton Cramer) writes:

|> > to explain why he doesn't want his daughter to associate at all with
|> > gay men or lesbians:
|> > 
|> > >For the same reason I don't want a lot of people who engage/are in
|> > >activities that are legal, moral, permissible -- because it is not want I
|> > >want for her to be, see, or ACCEPT AS O.K.
|> > 
|> > What are you going to say when she asks you why you won't let her associate
|> > with friends who are different? Are you going to punish her if she should
|> > disagree with you?
|> 
|> "Daddy, what's wrong with Johnny?  Sure, his hair is a little short,
|> and he wears that cute little symbol on his arm -- what did you
|> call it, a swastika? -- but isn't it *my* life?"
|> 
|> or 
|> 
|> "You're interfering with my rights.  If I want to hang around people
|> that wear gang colors, sell drugs, and murder people, what's it
|> to you?"
|> 
|> When he or she turns 18 (or maybe even sooner, if he or she shows
|> some maturity), we let our kids go out and make their own decisions.
|> In the meantime, they are too young to make some decisions.  (At this
|> point in the discussion, George Neville-Bush starts screeching that
|> preventing 8 year olds from having sex with adults is a form of
|> human rights violation.)

The real problem is that your children will go through stages of rebellion
and will want to do things you don't approve of.  (If you think your children
are above this, you are in deep caca.)  Consequently, you can protect them
from the experience only by making sure they are educated enough to 
understand your reasons.  Typical religious based reasons (Its bad, God said
so, I said so, etc.) usually heighten the interest in the forbidden
activity.

Whether you are talking about crossing the street without looking, associating
with criminals, or sexual activity, ignorance breeds interest and counteracts
mandate.  Your opinions are yours to share with your children, and you should.
But if you overprotect them through ignorance, you will step backward.

According to Dr. Lendon Smith, well known child psychologist, the highest 
incendences of pre-marital pregnancies among girls below college age is
found in strict religious communities.  When the only chance for 
pre-marital discourse is behind the barn, it rapidly turns into unprotectd,
unplanned, pre-marital intercourse.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36556 ca.politics:6135 ba.politics:3870
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Say no more, I know what you mean ...
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:45:32 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <92099@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <axmmd7=.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
# #So sorry that I'm not one you "right thinking" boys. After all, if I REALLY
# #thought CORRECTLY about the matter, and REALLY understood it, then of COURSE
# #I would agree with your every opinion.
# 
# None of us has ever claimed that to be heterosexual is wrong, disgusting,
# etc.

Have you missed the prolonged discussions in soc.motss about "breeders"?

# I don't think you've ever really thought about ***WHY*** you've thought
# homosexuality is disgusting. I can't think of any child who comes to this
# conclusion without accepting it as an act of faith from their parents or
# their church, or their friends.

How about as a result of being molested?  I know such a man.  He was
molested by a homosexual Scoutmaster when he was 10.  He never uses
the words "gay" or "homosexual."  It's always, "faggots."

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36167 talk.politics.theory:3060 alt.discrimination:3732
From: ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:13:15 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <1992Jul18.034555.152@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.212635.18967@watson.ibm.com> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
>commodity "you get to shop in a store without blacks".  If there are enough
>bigots willing to pay money for the commodity, the store is going to compete
>against "fair" stores which don't sell this commodity.

OK, so it all comes down to an economic bloc of bigots who are willing
to pay more for the opportunity to shop in all-white stores, vs.
an economic bloc of people who are tolerant / discriminated against.

The anti-slavery movement began quite early in this country, at least 1750 and 
probably before.  There have always been people here who were motivated
by conscience and fair-mindedness.  As long as there are ANY of
these people around, the economic effects of racism are mitigated.

If the number of tolerant people plus the number of people discriminated
against exceeds the number of dedicated bigots, then the bigots
will be at an economic disadvantage, and will have to pay more and more,
relatively speaking, for their privileges.  But, on the other hand,
if someone wants to belong to an Asian club, or a black club, or an
American Indian club, why is this a threat to society at large?

Those of us who favor limited govt are wary of granting powers to the
govt which are best left to the people, and so we tend to resist
anti-discrimination laws as a substitution of one evil for another.


--Al Date
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: ronp@dazixca.ingr.com (Ron Phillips)
Subject: Re: democratic platform
Organization: DAZIX / An Intergraph Company
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:39:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.184812.25392@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
>
>2) Opposes a ban or massive waiting periods on guns for the most part. 
>   (although many don't own guns or have an opinion one way or another)

Oh? ... Is it untrue that the Pro-Choice Democrats have placed
a gun-control agenda in their platform?


************************************************************
*Ron Phillips                        ronp@dazixca.ingr.com *
*Senior Customer Engineer                                  *
*DAZIX / An Intergraph Company                             *
*381 East Evelyn Avenue              VOICE: (415) 691-6473 *
*Mountain View, CA 94041             FAX:   (415) 691-0350 *
************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast
From: pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian)
Subject: Make it a law! (was: "something else") 
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:56:46 GMT

riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes:


>	The ultimate crime one can commit around here is to bore the Net.

[much stuff deleted]
>-- 
>Bill R.

I like this.. can we make it a net-law?!

Cheers,

Peter


		                                                               
===============================================================================
Peter Bidian					     Internet: pebi@aem.umn.edu
Dept. of Aerospace Eng.				     Bitnet:    AE02022@UMNACVX
University of Minnesota				     phone:      (612) 625-1346
===============================================================================
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35616 alt.censorship:6205 misc.legal:14723
From: chf0@newshost.gte.com (Curtis Fennell)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.censorship,misc.legal
Subject: Re: More Nilges obfuscation
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:15:01 GMT
Reply-To: chf0@gte.com
Followup-To: egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA

In article <1992Jul23.140547.13951@Princeton.EDU>, egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul21.151633.6359@nic.unh.edu> pas@anchor.unh.edu (Paul A Sand) writes:
|> >This `actuality' somehow does not prevent Mr. Nilges from levelling
|> >charges of racism at individuals when he finds it convenient, most
|> >notably Richard Posner.  (If Richard Posner is a `societal structure'
|> >instead, he should perhaps be notified of the problem.)
|> 
|> Lemme see if I can explain it to you.  Racism primarily is a dysfunction
|> of social structures, but individuals act as "conductors" and (just like
|> certain of the physical elements, versus certain other elements)
|> powerful individuals like Judge Posner allow more of this substance to
|> flow through them, both volitionally, and by virtue of their office.

BZZZZZT !!!!  Sorry, Mr. Nilges, but that's an incorrect response. But
thanks for playing anyway!  Your *freedom of speech* gives you the
*RIGHT* to play our little game, so I'm sure you will appreciate it!

Social structures are composed of individuals and derive their
characteristics from the collective characteristics of the individuals
that make them up.  If no individuals within a social structure are
racist, then racism will not appear.  

Racism is primarily a dysfunction of individuals and until it is
eliminated in individuals, then the social structures will reflect it.
Conversely, there is no way to eliminate racism from the social
structures that we inhabit without eliminating it from individuals
first.

-- 
============================================================
Curt Fennell    [   "One should forgive one's enemies,     ]
chf0@gte.com	[    but not before they are hanged"	   ]
============================================================
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35312 alt.politics.clinton:308
From: tag@hermes.ecn.purdue.edu (Tony A. Gibbens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:43:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <-hfmzh_.crisp@netcom.com> crisp@netcom.com (Richard Crisp) writes:
>In article <36881@ttidca.TTI.COM> kevin@drogges.tti.com (Kevin Carothers) writes:
>> service jobs which you will be required to fill if you apply for government
>> assistance. Very much like the WPA programs of the thirties. This is a LOT
>> different than "welfare". This is a program that pays for itself. Sure, the
>> 30's "New Deal" was expensive, but  we know a lot more about how to manage
>> and account for a public works program nowadays than we did back then.
>
>I beg your pardon, but how will public works programs pay for themselves?
>One thing that always troubles me about the uninformed democrats is that
>they simply do not understand economics.
>
>-- 
>Richard Crisp         Cupertino, Ca.         crisp@netcom.com
>(415) 903-3832 wk    "what, me worry?"    (408) 253 4541 fax
>

Richard, would please try to understand a subject before you comment on it.
It really gets to be old when you make comments like this.  Well little
boy, I will try to show a few examples where some of the public works 
payed for themselves or had a positive effect on our society.  

First off, it is very hard to calculate the net positive influence many of
these projects had on the local economies.  For example, neighborhoods 
by a nice park (made by a public works project) tend to attract wealth.  
Please note that there are exceptions to this but this is a general rule.

2) many roads, bridges, and other transportation increasing devieces were
created, started, repaired by public work programs.  Now these have a clear
positive effect on the economy (local and probably non-local).  If you bother
to think for a moment, you might realize that our bad state of infrastructure 
is costing this nations economy quite a lot each year.  (in terms of delayed
shipping, damage to vehicles, delayed arrivials, etc).

3) there were a few dams built by these public programs.  Do I have to
explain the effect of these to you.

there is much more, but I hope Richard that you will be inspired to 
learn this on your own.  Also, for the future, I hope you will be inspired
to bother to learn about something before demostrating your ignorance

tag@ecn.purdue.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36242 ca.politics:6067 ba.politics:3797 misc.legal:14969
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Vacation Time!
Keywords: Ditch Day, vanishing room
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:35:43 GMT
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Followup-To: alt.folklore.college
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

>Every 3 years or so, the local papers rediscover Ditch Day and run an
>article; has anybody seen these published outside of Southern California??

I'd read about "Ditch Day" and the more colorful alleged antics long
before meeting my first Caltech alum, let alone moving to California.
Those stories go all over the place on the wire services.  Occasionally
someone from a slick magazine such as Discover will get in on the act.

Something scratching at the back of my mind says that there was even
a book on the subject some years ago.  Could be wrong and often am.

--Joe "And we thought a keg of beer in the bathtub constituted fun" Chew
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36352 alt.politics.clinton:967
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: What kind of recession we're in
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:39:59 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Jul26.155129.18822@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

| Now let's look at what happened during the Great Depression.  First,
| the money supply SHRANK by 25%.  Making credit tighter during a
| recession is exactly the WRONG thing to do.  Next, we saw the

  I don't think much of lowering interest rates, either. The only
interest rate on borrowing money which has come down is the mortgage
rate; credit cards have come down very little if any. As a result the
people who really need to be able to spend, the lower income types,
can't afford to borrow, while those who must are borrowing against their
homes. And those few of us who bucked the trend and actually saved some
money are getting nothing for it now. The bank interest less tax is
lower than the inflation.

  This drains money from the US recovery, of course. Germany just
increased the interest rate by a percent or so. This means you can
deposit in German banks and earn 9% in a currency which is gaining
14%/year against the dollar. I'm looking into this now, because I can't
afford to keep losing money.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
	It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise rational people, able to
	understand calculus, compound interest, and the income tax form, can
	continue to believe that poker is a game of chance.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36241 ca.politics:6066
From: ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (neil covey)
Subject: Endorsement of Bush
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:58:01 GMT

FWIW:  USA Today reports that Luther Campbell of  2 Live Crew is
endorsing Bush.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher)
Subject: Re: Bush Again
Organization: Integrated Systems Laboratory, ETH, Zurich
Distribution: talk.politics.misc
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:39:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.213453.12393@noao.edu> lund@noao.edu (Rich Lund) writes:
>Let's keep Bush!  Sure he hasn't exactly done a terrific job on the domestic
>front, but this whole Perot thing and the brutal attacks sure to follow
>from the Democrats in coming months will point out to him very strongly 
>where he needs to improve his job performance.  

So you are using his incompetence as a proof that he will learn ? I commend you
on your high opinion of human nature, but I'm afraid things won't work like
this. While it is plausible to vote for Bush if you liked his job performance
of the last 4 years and want 4 more years of this, it is unreasonable to assume
that he will miraculously change.

>Bush learned his lesson about giving in to the Congress on tax increases
>and after he is re-elected the new Congress will be hard pressed to 
>explain another refusal to pass a balanced budget amendment.

I have no idea how a balanced budget amendment could be possibly useful. It is
not exactly *unconstitutional* to propose a balanced budget today.

>Many of us aren't happy with the choices we have this election, but rest 
>assured that conditions could be worse and electing the alternative 
>Clinton ticket is asking for serious trouble.  The country could very 
>well turn socialist with a rubber stamp puppet afraid to veto any
>porkbarrel piece of legislation that crosses his desk.

It somewhat surprises me that, while you are willing to give Bush every benefit
of the doubt, you have fears of a Clinton presidency which have absolutely no
connection to reality.

>In other words, we have no viable choice but to re-elect Bush

Is this supposed to mean that Bush *is* a viable choice ?

>and 
>support him and our country

What the hell does support of the country have to do with support of Bush ?

>until next Presidential election, at which
>time I hope some qualified alternative candidates will come forward and
>give the citizens some real choices.

The citizens *do* have a real choice. Clinton and Marrou have said clearly
enough what they will do if elected and George Bush has shown for four years
what he will do if re-elected. You have a choice.

Matthias

-----
Matthias Neeracher                                      neeri@iis.ethz.ch
  "Rock and Roll adolescent hoodlums storm the streets of all nations."
                            -- William Burroughs, _The Naked Lunch_
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: recessions (was: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:44:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.173527.19026@Princeton.EDU> pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson) writes:

>>>Correct me if I'm wrong... aren't we ALREADY in the biggest
>>>recession since the 1930's?

>>consider yourself corrected. The recession in the middle 70's and the

>Gee, isn't this shortly after the first oil crisis?

I believe it started a tad before the Arab embargo.

>>one in the early 80's where each far worse. This one is actually pretty

>And this one was right after the second oil crisis.  Think there is some
>sort of correlation here?  I certainly do.

What's your point? The most recent recession (which now seems to be over)
was triggered by the invasion of Kuwait and the accompying oil crisis.

>>mild, it just seems worse compared to the previous decade of growth.

>What about the length of this recession?  Is it longer or shorter than
>the two that were pointed out by the previous poster?

Assuming this recession is over (since the economy is growing again that
seems a good assumption) then it will have been shorter than the previous
recessions as well.

   Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------276 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc