From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Plan S -- Quebec separation
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 22:00:22 GMT

In article <schuck.721077160@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:
>>It has been shown time and time again that most Quebecers do not want
>>Separation.  Most would only vote for it if 'forced to' by certain
>>political conditions.  Such Quebecers would not consider themselves
>>disloyal in voting against Canada: they would more likely consider
>>Canada disloyal for having forced them out of Confederation.
>
>Pleeaaasssseee? Forced out???? Are you crazy?

A set of legislation initiated by "TROC" that states that Quebeckers
are no longer citizens (which would be required for some of the 
proposals that you made in an earlier posting) certainly qualifies as
"Forcing them out."  It's pretty straightforward.  Declaring someone
to no longer be a Canadian citizen IS forcing them out.

>Let's see -- off the top of my head:
>
>1) A Quebecker has been Prime Minister for 23 out of the last 24
>   years. How dreadfully we treat them.
>
>2) Billions each year in equalization payments. Much more than they
>   deserve because they aren't a poor province.
>
>3) Multi-billion dollar megaprojects every year or so. Tough isn't it.
>
>4) Half the civil service -- hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Perhaps true, but not relevant to determining whether legislation
created by Canada that denaturalizes Quebeckers "forces them out."

>The *only* valid reason for Quebec separation is self-determination.
>If they no longer want to share a country with english-canada, then
>fine , I can understand that.
>
>But if I hear one more hard luck story about how badly they are
>treated, then I am going to puke.
>
>Canada has destroyed any chance of it being a wealthy country because
>of it's national obsession with sucking up to Quebec. Billions wasted
>on Meech and the CA. Years wasted. 
>
>People hate the national elites because of this obsession.
>
>It disgusts us.
>
>It is time to treat Quebec as 1 out of 10 provinces and 2 territories
>[soon to be 3]. Thats it. And if the Quebec psyche can't handle that
>and wants to stalk off and start it's own country, then fine. But
>don't expect a penny or an ounce of sympathy.
>
>Let me end with a response to all those who say we should have free
>trade with QUebec.
>
>I've posted this example before and it's still valid.
>
>Quebec dairy producers get 50% of the national quota.
>BC with 12% of the population gets 5% of the quota.
>Other provinces are similary shortchanged.
>
>Do you think that BC will accept for one second Quebec keeping that
>quota? Ha! Not a chance. Quebec will get 0 quota and the rest will be
>distributed creating wealth and jobs in the dairy regions of Canada.

What does this "example" have to do with free trade with Quebec?  It
describes something that is intrinsically anti-free-trade, and doesn't
reasonably describe the situation to boot.

re assuming that milk quotas are IN FACT an asset, as opposed
to a legislated fiat, which is truly protectionist in nature.  The
example is rather dealing with one of the BARRIERS to trade.

(b) An independent Quebec would OBVIOUSLY have no share of the
Canadian milk quota.  It would not only be unwise, it would be STUPID
for CSQ to create such a wrong-way trade barrier.  (The fact that
there are currently some imbalances may not be wise - but that's at a
totally different level of unwiseness.)

(c) This doesn't stop them from producing as much milk in Quebec as
they like, and it can't force them to buy milk from CSQ.  If, as in
(b), Quebec has no share of the CSQ milk quotas, it only makes sense
that CSQ would have no share of the Quebec milk quotas.

The actual number of jobs "CREATED" by this would be less than you
seem to think, because you ain't gonna be FORCING another sovereign
state to (I) stop producing milk, and (II) buy YOUR milk instead.

I can see it now...

"BC becomes the richest province in CSQ, and we owe it all to milk
quotas.  If it weren't for those evil Quebecois, we would have been
rich years ago!  We've got cheese coming out of our ears, and we owe
it all to the Great Separation."

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca           |===================================
University of Ottawa              |  The Personal Computer:  Colt 45
Master of System Science Program  |  of the Information Frontier
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