From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Re: Other Flip-Floppers on abortion
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Distribution: world 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:28:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.131947.7360@nuchat.sccsi.com> lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher) writes:
>>> A person who does not believe in governing on the basis
>>> of religion might very well leave the abortion issue to each person's
>>> concience as a personal moral religious issue.  
>>
>>Abortion is NOT a religious issue.  Abortion is a legal and moral issue.
>>Homicide and robbery are morally wrong.  We don't leave homicide and 
>>robbery to each person's moral conscience. 
>>
>>>Jim Burke	
>>
>>
>>Doug Holtsinger
>>
>
>So...what you are saying, is that all of us should really be debating
>whether or not abortion is legal and moral....

[Argument based entirely on this premise, deleted] 

Your premise is wrong, Cypher. Let's De-Cypher this for you, okay: 

The debate is over whether or not legal abortion is consistent with
existing principles and the priority of those principles. 

If a debate was based on whether or not it was just legal or moral, 
Jim Crow might have lasted another 20 years, and perhaps a PatricKKK
Harumphrey might have not waited until I marched my "fat black ass"
down there - they might have come up HERE, and lynched me and a dozen
other African-Americans.

Just on the day before Racism became further illegal. 

Translation:

The debate over Racism, 1960 (by your standards, that is): 
Legal: Yes.
Moral: Don't force your morality on me. Besides, giving them equal
       rights, means putting a bunch'a US out into the streets...

The REAL debate over Racism, 1960 (by my standards, that is):
Legal: Yes
Moral: Depends. 
Logical: No. It's unfair and we fought a war with ONE nation whose
         principles said discrimination is okay. It is illogical for
         us to condemn Nazi Germany and then half-way accept their
 	 principle that discrimination is okay.  
         


>One woman dies every three minutes from a botched illegal abortion..
>Keep that in mind...

Anyone want to give us a clock on how many people per minute, die of illegal
thefts and drugs? On a worldwide scale, that is. Oh, and Cypher, where
do you get this "three minutes" statistic, while you're at it? 


=============================================================================
>##       "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
>##  that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
>##  we want to be precise)..."
>##    -- Gloria Feldt,
>##       chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona

>##   "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
>##     -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>
=============================================================================
|Pro-Contraception   Pro-Freedom of Religion, Speech & Sexual Orientation   |
|Pro-Privacy    Pro-Humanism   Pro-Freedom of Choice 	Registered Democrat | 
|                                                                           |
|			Card-carrying member, NRLC                          |
|           Dedicated to achieving civil rights for the unborn              |
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