HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Mark Webster)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Keywords: 4wd, hiking
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:29:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Originator: mark@morningstar


In a couple of weeks, I'm going up somewhere into the Eastern Sierra.  I would
like to make this into a combination 4 wheeling/backpacking trip.  My optimal
trip would be to get up there somewhere in the National Forest, get on a Jeep
trail (one that requires 4 wheel drive and high clearance), get a jump on 
getting into the backcountry, then come to some sort of trailhead that heads
into the John Muir Wilderness, the Golden Trout Wilderness, Kings Canyon NP, 
or Sequoia NP and pack in from there.  Does anyone know a place where I can do
this.  I have a trail guide for the Southern Sierra and a Jeep trail guide as
well. These usually don't give combo trips though. Can anyone help me out?

Thanks,
Mark
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Thread Sizes (was: Exploding fuel bottles)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:48:09 GMT

In article <l#ry#ra@rpi.edu>,
leonam@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Marcus B. Leonard) writes:
>>Could someone confirm this?  I have had a Whisperlite for a few years
>>and was planning to buy a second one for when I want to cook something
>>more interesting (when we are boot-packing (truck-packing to the
>>Americans)).   If the threads are different --- so I'd have to label the
>>fuel bottles to use them with the ``right'' pump --- it would be a
>>severe pain.
>
>   I bought a Whisperlight International and a Sigg bottle at REI three months
>ago, and they fit just fine.
>   However, if you are going to carry two stoves, you may want to consider two
>different models.  I spent 51 days canoeing in Canada last summer, carrying the
>Whisperlight and a Peak 1.  The Whisperlight was for boiling things, while the
>Peak 1 was for simmering, cooking biscuits, and other tasks that required more
>temperature selection between 'off' and 'too damn hot'.
>
If you are willing to have a stove JUST for "boot-packing" (some of
call this car camping), the best I've seen are one of the two burner
propane fueled Colemans.  You can actually do real cooking in these:
omlets, stir-fry, bacon and eggs, etc.  They are actually pretty
low-tech with the result that they are cheaper than a stove you
would carry in the back country.  Never again will I sit around a
picnic table balancing bots of pasta on a Peak 1 or Whisperlite!
From: ddj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Josephson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:43:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Colorado reunion
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I believe I saw a book in the library which had a bunch of info on outdoor
areas which had facilities for the disabled.  I remember it being fairly
thorough.  It had info on national parks, forests, etc.  I'll try to check into
it and post back.  You might also check with the backcountry office in RMNP,
I know they have a Handicamp at Sprague Lake (not exactly backcountry, but it's
not as bad as Bear Lake).

Doug Josephson  ddj@fc.hp.com  Fort Collins, CO
From: revillot@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Judy Tolliver)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-)
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:55:57 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dept. of MSE at Illinois-Urbana

In article <1992Aug28.011808.19769@morrow.stanford.edu>,
HF.MMS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Skubik) wrote:
> 

> Just a note about all of this priming talk:  For 20 years
> I have primed my SVEA by lighting a match or lighter under
> her, heating the fuel tank a little.  Then, with flame out,
> you open the valve, let a little gas flow into the priming
> cup, close the valve, light the fuel, let it burn a little
> to warm up the burner stem, then open the valve again and
> fire up the stove.  Mind you, you have to know and trust
> your equipment, but this is the real crazy-person way of
> doing it, and it works well.  It also scares the shit out
> of anyone watching you for the first time, so it is a good
> way to build a reputation among noephites, should you need
> one.  Note:  In cold weather use, all you have to do to
> warm up the fuel tank enough for flow pressure is to hold the
> tank in your hands for a few minutes instead on the above
> flame method.
> 
> All of the above is true, but it even sounds goofy to me.
> 'Been waiting to blow myself up since I bought the thing.
> 


This is exactly how I start mine.  Since the first thing I do is make some
water for tea, I crinkle the paper the teabags came in and build a little
fire under the fuel tank with them and the spent match.  (I paid $17 for my
Svea, way back.  I saw one for $75 at the little supply hut by Jenny Lake
one year.  My only objection is that when I fire it up in the morning, I
feel like a DC-10 just pulled up next to me.)

--Judy Tolliver
From: baldwin@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Ken Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: taped seams
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:19:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Quality waterproof products usually have seams sealed with
a clear tape. Does anyone know if it's possible to by this
tape for use on home-made products? (More precisely, can
anyone recommend a good source?) I have in mind something which
could be heat-sealed on with an iron, for example. Thanks.

Ken Baldwin
baldwin@cogsci.ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jojo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joanne Spetz)
Subject: Re: National Park Mortality Rates (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Summary: Comparative stats are best
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 19:23:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.154158.7479@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>No that we are on the stupid-tourist thread again,
>I wonder if the statistics on how many fatalities and accidents in National
>Parks are published somewhere.
>I personally saw twp heart attack casualties in the Grand Canyon last Easter,
>but never heard how many overall deaths there are.

What would be useful is not just the casualty rate in parks, but a
comparison of the park rate to the rate of normal people in the U.S.

An example of why we really want the COMPARISON and not the absolute
numbers is found when looking at the Iraq conflict.  There were deaths
of U.S. forces in the desert (mostly while we were waiting for some
fighting to start), but the death rate was actually lower than that
of a major U.S. city.  So...were you safer as a soldier?

--Jo

-- 
Joanne Spetz
Economics Department
Stanford University
From: MJG8@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: kentucky
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:43:55 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

This isn't really a question about the backcountry camping, but maybe some
of you can help me.  I am going on a trip through Kentucky in a week.  The
purposeis to collect fish specimens for my Ph.D.  dissertation research.  We
are going to be camping (car camping) to keep the cost low.  (I get to pay
for this myself.) Are there any really nice state parks or the like that
would be nice to stay in.  We are goig from Northeast KT, southward and
across the Southern rim of the state towards the Southwestern corner.  Any
help with really cool places to stay would be greatly appreciated.  thanks,
marty.

ps. i already know about Mammoth Cave, we're definitely going to go there.


"As the nets unravel all exotic fish I find"  XTC

Martin Gutowski                       Bitnet: mjg8@psuvm
Graduate Program in Ecology           Internet: mjg8@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson)
Subject: A great book deal
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 11:54:29 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: aa

	I thought that people might like know that Borders (on State St.)
has _Stalking_the_Wild_Asparagus_ for  $2.98 on the closeout tables outside.

-- 
Colin Johnson                        | Dragging NASCO kicking and screaming
Colin.Johnson@um.cc.umich.edu (work) | into the 21st century
Inter-Cooperative Council Ann Arbor Michigan

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Info on Absorca Wild in MT
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:38:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.190125.12649@u.washington.edu> tremme@carson.u.washington.edu (Tom Remmers) writes:

>A friend is trying to convince me to go to the Absorca (sp?)
>Wilderness just north of Yellowstone in Montana for a 5 day trip.
>Any comments as to how spectacular the scenery, any peaks for

     This might be the Absaroka Mountains?  In a sense my reaction
to them is:  seen one Montana mountain, seen them all.  By that I
mean:  they're all very good!   
     I haven't been to the Absaroka Wilderness per se but I have done
a little camping and hiking in the National Forest in the Absaroka
Mtns.  They were IMHO not as spectacular as the Cascades, but then
nothing is.  Worth going to.
     I don't have any specific info however.

--Mike Tamada
  Occidental College
  tamada@oxy.edu

  



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: HF.MMS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Skubik)
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:18:08 GMT

Hi,

I've been using my SVEA since 1971 (cost me $11 at the time) and
it's been a really good little stove.  I can't begin to figure
how many meals we've made together over the years.

A coupla years ago I lent it to my sister's SO because they
were going camping and all of his stuff had been ripped off
recently.  Either the seals had gone bad or he didn't know
how to use the stove (prob both), but in any event, the filler
cap safety valve turned into a volcano and dern near got him.

So, I replaced all of the seals and she works fine again.

My only problem now is metal fatigue.  The wind-screen/pot
support is starting to fail in the grill section.  It is
starting to cave in on itself, so I guess it is time for a
new stove.

Just a note about all of this priming talk:  For 20 years
I have primed my SVEA by lighting a match or lighter under
her, heating the fuel tank a little.  Then, with flame out,
you open the valve, let a little gas flow into the priming
cup, close the valve, light the fuel, let it burn a little
to warm up the burner stem, then open the valve again and
fire up the stove.  Mind you, you have to know and trust
your equipment, but this is the real crazy-person way of
doing it, and it works well.  It also scares the shit out
of anyone watching you for the first time, so it is a good
way to build a reputation among noephites, should you need
one.  Note:  In cold weather use, all you have to do to
warm up the fuel tank enough for flow pressure is to hold the
tank in your hands for a few minutes instead on the above
flame method.

All of the above is true, but it even sounds goofy to me.
'Been waiting to blow myself up since I bought the thing.

mms
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Reading this group too much
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:17:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.175518.2450@colorado.edu>,
sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) writes:
|>From: sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
|>Subject: Reading this group too much
|>
|>You know you have been reading RB too long when the salesperson
|>tells you that the boots you are looking at have low impact soles
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>and you wonder how they decide which tread designs have the least
|>effect on the enviroment.
|>
|>Scott
|>

REALLY, instead of hyping low impact soles, I think what we need
are more low impact souls.

And boy, do I really hate to see those souls seperating from their
leather uppers ... 

--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke)
Subject: Labor Day wkend w/5 mo old: Where?
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Knowledge Systems Lab
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:35:46 GMT

Hi,

I'm new to the group, so please forgive me if something along these lines
has been discussed in the all-too-recent past. 

My wife and I are looking for a place in Northern Ca (actually anywhere
from Lassen to Kings Canyon/Sequoia) to go backpacking with my daughter (5
months old) over this Labor Day weekend. Because I will likely have to
carry my daughter in a front pack and my pack on my back, I am favoring
places that have relatively easy access, i.e., you only have to hike a
couple of miles (well 3 or 4) to get to some nice potential camp area. I
also prefer to get away from the hordes. Accessibility and not too many
people seem like mutually exclusive criteria, but I'm sure there are places
that you folks may have heard of.

We're considering Saddlebag Lake area (just east of Yosemite, off Tioga
Rd).

Any suggestions? If I get more than a couple of answers via e-mail, I can
post a summary (maybe there are other parents who would like this kind of
info).

Thanks,

Torsten

PS 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Top notch outdoor gear in SF?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:00:22 GMT

In article <Btp8G8.8s3@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>,
molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:
>
>Greetings.  Would some kind soul point me at some of the best outdoor
>gear stores in San Fransisco?  I may get a chance to travel down there
>and I'd like to check out the better stores.  I'm looking for backpacking/
>hiking/climbing/canoeing clothing & gear.  Which stores have good prices
>on patagionia, TNF etc?
>
The wideset selection is usually at REI. Stores in Berkely (San
Pablo Ave), San Carlos (Industrial Way), and Cupertino.  You only
get a price break (in the form of a year-end dividend) if you are a
member.

IMHO, the best quality gear is a Marmont in Berkely/Oakland.  Also
the steepest prices.

There are several North Face stores.  One in Palo Alto - see a phone
book for the others.

If you can find prices at less than full list anywhere in the Bay
Area except for the occassional end of season sale please let me
know!

Oh yes.  On Gilman street in Berkely between REI and I-80 there are
a number of factory outlets (Royal Robbins, North Face, Walrus) that
sometimes have good prices.  However, you may be getting blems and
seconds.  Besides if like me, you fall near the peak of the bell
curve of physical dimentions, you may find the right sizes hard to
come by.  OTOH, they are great for those who are XXS or XXL!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: goldsman@cc.gatech.edu (Michael G. Goldsman)
Subject: Off to Alaska on Sunday!! (And eventualy to Denali...)
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:07:05 GMT

Well, this Sunday I'll be flying stand-by to Houston and then on to Anchorage.

I will hang around in Anchorage Monday to get my bearings and to finish 
equipping.  Then on Tuesday morning I'll hop on the Alaska Railroad to 
Denali National park. I plan to be in Denali for about 8 or 9 days.

I'm going alone so basically, I'll probably be totally lost in Anchorage!
I'll be on foot with a heavy pack, little sleep and  Jet-lag a la Continental 
Airlines.

Could someone recommend a cheap place to spend Sunday and Monday nights?
I will probably hit the youth hostel, but if there's something a bit nicer
yet still reasonable priced, I could go the extra $$'s for it. 
Like no more than $25/night for a single... Is that possible?

Can someone also  recommend a good Camping store where I can get 
propane/butane cartrages for my stove?

Anyways, I'll probably be looking for something to do in Anchorage 
Monday so if someone wants to go out with me and get a beer or something
send me e-mail before Sunday!

Is anyone else out there planning ot be in Denali between 9/8 and 9/20 ??

Maybe we could link up and go on a few day-hikes.

Anybody have a favorite backcountry hiking spot?


thanks!


-Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Goldsman              __o          o__      o__      o__      o__    
36004 Ga Tech Station    _ \<,_        _.>/ _   _.>/ _   _.>/ _   _.>/ _   
Atlanta, Georgia 30332  (_)/ (_)      (_) \(_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP Key available upon request
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:39:08 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
> Moreover the Pur has an iodine matrix
> that will kill bacteria and virus (until it wears out).  But I wonder
> if it gets 100% of giardia?

Both should filter Giardia cysts effectively.  The MSR's filter has a pore size
of 0.1 microns, the PUR 1.0 microns; anything less than about 4 microns stops
Giardia cysts.  Still, like you, I would feel much safer with test results
in hand!

A survey of sizes:

   30     microns   large bacteria
   21     microns   length of Giardia trophozoite (which is larger than a cyst)
    5     microns   width of Giardia trophozoite
    1.0   microns   *** PUR filter pores
    0.8   microns   Clostridium botulinum (causes botulism)
    0.7   microns   Salmonella enteriditis (causes food poisoning)
    0.6   microns   large virus
    0.4   microns   *** FIrst Need filter pores
    0.4   microns   Shigella Dysenteria (causes dysentery)
    0.4   microns   smallest bacteria
    0.2   microns   *** Katadyn filter pores
    0.1   microns   *** MSR filter pores
    0.01  microns   limit of filtering
    0.004 microns   smallest virus

Obviously there is still a lot of work that needs to be done.  In particular,
as Bill mentions, testing the newer filters and testing for effectiveness
against a variety of dangers in addition to Giardia.  Isn't there someone
reading this who needs a dissertation topic?

The figures above are from the June 1992 issue of Backpacker.  If I get time,
I'll post that article too, but don't hold your breath.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:36:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: pack animals...WAS: Oregon Wallowas
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I think its a good reason not to release wild horse into
the wilderness, but I'm sorry, I can't be convinced the
native grasses are significantly threatened by the level of
use I have seen in any wilderness area.

Even if it were a problem, it could dealt with by
requiring packers to haul in their own feed, which
many do anyway.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris)
Subject: Re: boots
Organization: Eaton Corp, Semiconductor Equipment Div., Beverly, MA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:49:39 GMT

Following up on the boots and waterproof-ness thereof....

I was hiking on the AT south of Katadhin during a day of heavy,
continuous rain.  It was just a day hike, and the day was warm, so I
wore a goretex jacket and shorts.  By the end of the day, my socks and
boots were soaked, not from leakage but from water running down my legs!

Moral:  If you're going to be in the rain, wear some kind of rainpants
and gaiters to keep the water off your legs!

-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - uunet!etnibsd!vsh
From: akin@sgi.com (Allen Akin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR filter (was: Water treatment article from Am J Pub)
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:29:51 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Sep02.174743.29296@brtph560.bnr.ca> jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
| 
| The MSR is a good enough filter but with the following drawbacks:  you
| will need to buy the latest model with all the gimics to make it
| bearable, and even then you will need to be able to hold the out flow
| tube in your mouth and aim it at your water bottle while you pump HARD
| with your hands.  We have rigged ours with clothes pins etc to clip to
| the bottle end, but I always end up with the tube clamped in my teeth,
| unless you have a partner.  
| 
| The filter even with the external screen add-on clogs QUICKLY.  It is
| still workable but WORK is the optimal word here, it is a job to get the
| water through.  Backflushing is questionable, we usually ended up buying
| a new cartridge every year.  It is relatively inexpensive, a good filter,
| moderately compact, and no chemicals or chemical tastes. 

This sounds like a description of a First Need, not an MSR WaterWorks.
As far as I know, the MSR comes in only one configuration (all gimmicks
included :-)).  I don't even use the outflow tube; I just screw the
water bottle directly into the threaded coupling on the end of the
filter. (Besides reducing bottle juggling, this also eliminates the
need for a flat patch of ground on which to rest the bottle while
pumping.)  Pumping the MSR is vastly easier than pumping the First
Need, something that my wife appreciates even after paying the high
price of the MSR.  I've been accustomed to replacing the First Need
filter canister every season, for the reasons you describe.  In
contrast, the MSR cleans easily and effectively.

When I decided to throw out my First Need this year, my choice for a
new filter narrowed to the Pur and the MSR.  I eventually chose the MSR
because field maintenance was simple, filtering was effective for very
small-scale contaminants, and there was no iodine flavor in the
filtered water.  For overseas trips, I can always dose the filtered
water with Potable Aqua (or equivalent) to eliminate threats from
viruses.  This would give me a higher degree of confidence in the
quality of the result than the short iodine contact times provided by
the PUR.

So, I'm quite puzzled by the anti-MSR reports.  It still seems like a
functional, well-considered design.  I've no idea how well it handles
extremely turbid water, though; so far I've used it only in the Sierra.

Allen
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: looking for campsites around Santa Fe, NM
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:49:42 GMT

Hi! Me and my girlfriend are going to Santa Fe, NM this weekend, and
would appreciate any advice concerning camping in the area. The
operative word here is "free."
-- 
Edward Hartnett			ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu