HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: women composers
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:33:54 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <BzGFop.52y@news.udel.edu> graziano@ravel.udel.edu (Lisa Marie Graziano) writes:
>
>
>Here are just a few women composers:
>Francesca Caccinni, early 17th C., composer of operas
>Barbara Strozzi, 17th C., composer of contatas and other things
>
>Eleanore of Aquitane- ok, so she wasn't necessarily a composer, but she
>was a very important musical figure in the 1100's.

Also:
Hildegard of Bingen whose been mentioned has been enjoying somewhat of 
a revival in early music circles (since the early eightees).
Check out the Gothic Voices performances.

John D.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: One-work-composers
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:41:14 GMT

ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
: In article <1992Dec10.193345.12981@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >
: >No I can't buy that, not on the strength of this one piece - enjoyable
: >though it is. And Mahler wasn't popular until the 1960s really, except
: >as a conductor. Rott is an interesting sideline, but all this 'he was
: >where Mahler's inspiration comes from' garbage is, I think, just that.
: >We might just as well take up Mahler's own opinion that his younger
: >brother - can't remember his name - who died, would have been a far
: >greater composer.
: >
: 
: Have you listened to the third movement of the Rott?  I haven't heard
: something so blatantly plagiarized in some time. Perhaps I did exaggerate
: a bit, but I do think it's fair to say that Mahler was certainly inspired
: enough by Rott to make blatant use of his style, themes, and characteristic
: rhythms and orchestrations, at least in his first symphony.  Of course,
: Mahler plagiarized from lots of people (I'm not knocking Mahler, I love
: Mahler, but facts are facts).  My basis for saying that Rott may very
: well have exceeded Mahler in popularity is quite simply because he is
: more accesible.  I know I would have loved to see how he would have 
: developed his style in later works.

No this is simply untrue. Mahler didn't see the score of Rott's
symphony until the early 1900s. Das Klagende Lied - which as the
composer said contains 'all the Mahler you know' - is as early, if not
earlier, than Rott's symphony. This is precisly what I meant: let's
run down Mahler because of some stylistic similarities with this
unknown. They studied together, they were friends, it's as simple as
that.

Mahler was a genius, Rott may have been but we can't say for sure.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Pachelbel, Beethoven, and Mel Gibson
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:06:56 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: spacefox@acs.bu.edu


Hey the holidays are fast approaching!  Happy Holidays everyone.

I decided to post this humorous article.  I hope you guys don't mind
the waste in bandwidth.  It's a bit sexist, but I thought I might want to 
bring it to the attention of every male pianist.  If you think you'll be
offended, sorry, just skip this and go to the next article.


My friend told me that he improvises better on the piano when there's a woman 
present in the room.

Someone else told me that in his music appreciation class, the teacher asked,
"Why do you like classical [in the gross sense, not the era] music?"
To which a student replied, "I like to seduce women with classical music."

I chuckled at both remarks, but that got me wondering a bit:

What's the best music to romance a woman at the piano?

I suppose it has to do with her knowledge of piano.  If it was De Larrocha,
the only way I can move her is with my piano ineptness!


     Practicing piano in an auditorium, has the advantage of meeting people who 
intend to do their homework and have the fortunate (or unfortunate) opportunity 
to have piano background music.  Its a great chance to get use to playing in 
front of people. (But, I suppose this can be its disadvantage.)
     Well, after practicing for 2 years, I have had my chance encounters with
women at the piano.  Usually, I'd be hacking my fingers to oblivion around 2
in the morning when they would just straggle into the auditorium to study.
Not to bore them, (and really to show that I can do more than finger exercises)
I play a piece for them from memory.  Or if I have a book of music lying around,
I try my hand at sight reading in front of them.  (Very nervously!)
     What I do find -almost invariably- women who don't know how to play the
piano or little of it, melt (okay a slight exaggeration.) when I play
Canon in D by Pachelbel.  (If you guys are interested, I'll get the person
who arranged it!)  This often leads to the request that I play the Moonlight
Sonata by Beethoven.  Ah, sadly, I don't know it.  Though, I tell them I
play something else for them.  I get a kick out of this.  I play Chopin's
Funeral March.  I get a few chuckles.
     This one woman asked, "Why don't you dim the lights and play it?  Why all
these bright lights?"  To which I responded, "Well, I suppose if I came in here
late at night to romance a woman I would.  But I came to practice."  Silly me!
I know one day I'll look back at these encounters and kick myself!
     You guys know of any other pieces that have the same effect?  What's with
Canon in D and Moonlight Sonata?  Did Beethoven and Pachelbel stumble upon
something more effective than perfume industries' magic pheromones?  Was
Beethoven and Pachelbel the sex symbols of their times??????

[Alright, this is intended to be humorous, no insults intended.  Respond if 
you like!]


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: langs@puhep1.princeton.edu (David Langs)
Subject: Re: The worst composer in a millenium
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:52:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.165335.17469@news.columbia.edu> rsm13@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ravi S Moorthy) writes:
>I had the misfortune of buying Oliver Messiaen's "Turangalila Symphony"
>conducted by Rattle.  To give credit where it is due, it is the worst
>music I have ever heard.  Pardon me Messiaen lovers, but I cannot make
>any sense of his mumbling mystecism or the interminable bird calls.
>
>Ravi

Hmmmm.  You must have just been reading Jim Svejda's book since you
quoted his review almost verbatim.  You left out the part about him
throwing up after listening to his music though, quite an amusing little
anecdote.

This has to be one of the rare occasions where I am completely baffled
by Jim Svejda's reaction to a work.  I think the Turangalila is one of
the most original and brilliant symphonies written in the last 60 years.
In fact, I was just listening to it last night and was more impressed
than ever before.  The use of the Ondes Martinon (sp?) along with the
piano creates an atmosphere quite unlike anything else I am aware of in
the symphonic literature.  The music itself is wonderfully constructed
and developed, and the unique 10 movement form seems to hold together
very well.  There is a precise inner logic to the work which reveals
itself more after multiple hearings.  That's not to suggest that this is
intelectual music only.  The big, colorful orchestral sounds can be
rivetting.

I must admit, I know people who place it at the top of their list of
least favorite works.  (I don't know why).  I must also add that I have
not yet acquired a taste for much of Messian's other work.  His organ
works give me a headache, and I am just slowly beginning to make peace
with the Quartet for the End of Time.



-- 
                           Dave Langs
                           Dept. of Physics
                           Princeton University
                           langs@puhep1.Princeton.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist))
Subject: When was Reverie by Debussy composed?
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 06:05:07 GMT

The subject line says it all.  Thanks in advance.

-- 
Ken Iisaka               \ NEXT RECITAL  |12:00 pm, Thursday, January 7th, 1993
kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca     \ Produced by |National Gallery of Canada, Ottawa
AI Lab, University of Ottawa \ CBC Stereo|Berg        Sonata, b minor, op. 1
H: +1 613 237 6642 W: 564 8155 \ 103.3 FM|Mussorgsky  Pictures at an Exhibition
From: josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
Subject: Re: Greatest living pianist(s with a recording contract)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:15:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.190138.553@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.025630.21224@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>>Steve Apter (apter@fid.morgan.com) wrote:

>>: (Who am I forgetting?)
>>: 
>>Chrystian Zimerman?  :-)
>>
>>
>>John
>
>Yes, thanks.  Two recent recordings of CZ's which impressed
>the hell out of me are both on DG:  one of the Schubert
>Impromptus, the other of the Lutoslawski Piano Concerto.
>Anything else you care to recommend?
 
``K''rystian Zimerman's Liszt B Minor (also recent DG) impressed the hell out 
of me.  Actually, it even made me more impressed with Liszt than I was previously.
For some reason, it sounded to me like a recording that Gilels might have
made towards the end of his career had Liszt been part of his repertoire (and
I'm a big fan of late Gilels).  Zimmerman doesn't have the same kind of 
`touch' as Gilels but he has more digital dexterity.  The Sonata comes
coupled with Nuages gris, La notte, La lugubre gondola II, and Funerailles,
all excellent performances.


- Josh
From: allyn@milton.u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Virgin Classics, R.I.P. (was: Re: Britten: A Midsummer Night's...)
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec12.232346.7430
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>persistent reports of a new recording made a couple years ago by Virgin
>Classics (cond. Hickox, with Gomez, D Jones, Watson, Bowman,
>Graham-Hall, etc.).  It sounds like it might be nice, but if it exists,
>Virgin has been sitting on the tapes forever.  And they ARE releasing
>their stuff under the EMI umbrella now.

Sad to say, Virgin Classics is no more.  They weren't just releasing their
things under the EMI brolly - they were bought outright, and have now been
discontinued.  Whether EMI will release or rerelease much of the catalog,
or when, is anyone's guess at this point.

It's Virgin's own silly fault, though - they had over 100 recordings in the
can before they ever started trying to sell any of them, so they had
horrible cash-flow problems from day zero.  I'm told that Paul O'Dette
(lute) has plenty of stories of being paid late or not at all.  I went on a
Virgin binge a couple of weeks ago when I found out, and went through all
of the Tower bins looking for blue boxes...found 16 of them that I didn't
already have, making my credit card wince mightily, and the clerk's eyes
boggle...

Allyn Weaks
allyn@milton.u.washington.edu
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Christmas (not Xmas) CD
In-reply-to: torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu's message of Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:17:09 GMT
Organization: pubs
Distribution: na
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:10:28 CST


I assume the subject line's wording is meant to protest what appears to
be a modern or disrespectful abbreviation for Christmas, but "Xmas" has
an honorable background.  It originated with the Greek spelling of
Christ, which begins with the letter X (chi).  The letter has often been
used as a (respectful) abbreviation for Christ.  The term "X-ian" is
also used.  I don't know how old the abbreviation "Xmas" is.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: Lost Masterpieces was Re: Dresden was Re: One-work-composers
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1992Dec17.161155.24452@Princeton.EDU>
	<1992Dec17.225720.4602@fid.morgan.com>
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:16:52

In article <1992Dec17.225720.4602@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:

>New thread:  Presumably great works which were, or might have been, 
>lost or destroyed.

>Does anyone have a sense of what might be out there, lying around in
>someone's attic, or buried in the Vatican archives?

  What I miss most, are the lost Bach cantatas, about 100 of them,
  and one or two passions and there might be something else lost, too.

  Sibelius' 8th Symphony. Read somewhere he burnt it.




--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music Schools
Date: 9 Dec 92 17:00:39 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System
Keywords: Music Schools

In article <ByxxKv.CG4@cs.columbia.edu> tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait) writes:
>In article <1g1io4INNl98@aludra.usc.edu>
>michaels@aludra.usc.edu (Michael Adam Schmidt) writes:
>>I know what most people consider the best programs
>>around.  These are: Juliard School
>>                    Eastman School
>>                    N. Texas State Uni.
>>                    Peabody Conservatory
>>                    Cal. State Northridge
>>                    U.S.C.
>>                    New England Conservatory
>>                    Royal Academy of Music/London
>>                    Mannes Conservatory
>>                    Northwestern University 
>>                    Manhattan School of Music
>
>Where the hell is Curtis?!

Philadelphia! Sorry, I just had to, really :-)
>
>>I personally think from the above list
>>Juliard is probably #1, Peabody is #2, and C.S.U.N. is #3.
>
>Curtis is certainly the hardest U.S. music school to get into, and
>would probably rank as No. 1 in most circles.  Juilliard is way
>up there; most aspiring professionals dream of getting a degree
>from either Juilliard or Curtis.  Peabody is also very well-
>respected, as you say.

It also provides the Philly Orchestra with new blood since alot of 
the Curtis staff play in the Orchestra.

>
>Of course, there are plenty of fine teachers at less-than-notable
>schools.  The prestige of a Juilliard/Curtis/Peabody degree fades
>rapidly if you're working with someone who's a bad teacher for you.

I agree

>
>Carl Tait
>(who has never attended any conservatory, but
>Some of My Best Friends are conservatory students)

Greg
-- 
Greg Givler                 | "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Commodore Product Assurance | - Mark Twain
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:59:13 GMT

broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:
: In article <2B31FAEE.6591@news.service.uci.edu>, jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
: |> In article <1992Dec17.203233.25237@walter.bellcore.com> broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:
: |> >
: |> >Bruckner ????? 
: |> >
: |> >Can any good thing come from him ?
: |> >
: |> 
: |> Quite a lot already has, m'laddie.
: |> 
: |> John D.
: |> 
: |> 
: 
: 
: Name something that has !!!!!!

11 symphonies, 3 Masses, Te Deum, much choral music, String Quintet.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: why no women composers (was Re: FINAL FINAL THOUGHTS !!
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:11:07 GMT

In article <Bz4F51.98y.1@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.015043.8061@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>>In article <Dec.10.20.28.52.1992.4810@ruhets.rutgers.edu> bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner) writes:
>>>apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>>>
>>>|In article <Bz24o0.IrG.1@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>>>|>In article <1992Dec10.010932.19279@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>>>|>>Creative activity, of the composing and other sorts, is all in the
>>>|>>testosterone, and not in culture.  Read Camille Paglia.
>>>|>
>>>|>Hey buddy, you owe me the cost of one new Decstation B/W display.  I just
>>>|>put my fist through one.
>>>|>
>>>|>-chris
>>>
>>>|>I don't see a smiley here, so it looks like Mr Grusec has just been dealt
>>>|an ace.
>>>
>>>Only if you consider putting your fist through a Decstation B/W display
>>>"creative activity."
>>
>>"Fist-fucking, in its starkly depersonalized conflation of voluntary rape
>>and primitive exploratory surgery, dramatizes the daemonism of the sexual
>>imagination, untouched by five thousand years of civilization.  My amazement
>>never ceases at the biological conceptualism in male sexuality.  What woman
>>could invent such compulsive structures?  What woman, unpaid, would live 
>>and love in so hellish an underworld?"		_Sexual Personae_, p.264
>>
>>I don't see a smiley here either.
>
>You're quote is irrelevant to the topic.  Yes, it is true that men are
>different from women in complex ways.  But you apparently don't understand
>the insidious subconscious processes that are deeply ingrained in society,
>manifested through people such as you and Mr. Grusec and most people (both
					   ^^
			   Please apologize at once to Theodora

>men and women) I've come across, that warp the concepts in your quote to
>produce harmful misogynist behavior.  Too bad the problem is large enough
>that neither of us will live to see the proof of this.
>
>-chris




Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:23:49 GMT

In article <johnr.724371540@pongo.kowari.cpsg.com.au> johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Reid) writes:
>I have always been suprised that people continued to hold "Nazi" views
>against Wagner, when there is little if any evidence that his views were in
>any ways out of step with his times. 

Well, that's not an absolute criterion of acceptability, either.  After
all, Hitler's and Stalin's views were in step with *their* times, too.

Besides, Wagner did more than a little to make those ideas respectable in
his time.

>His great problem was that in a later era a former Austrian house painter. 

Whatever, but no.  His great problem is that he called for extraordinary
measures and undying hatred of Jewry.

>It should be remembered that Wagner
>was living at a time when Germany was becoming a unified nation, and
>nationalistic ideas were common throughout Europe. It is therefore harly
>suprising that he managed to write operas that involved, in some cases,
>nationalistic themes,specifically germanic ones. 

If that were all he'd done he'd be no more than another nationalist com-
poser.  But he didn't.  He wrote scabrous anti-Semitic tracts that set 
the tone for a century of hateful writing and worse.

>Interestingly, Bernard Levin, a British journalist of considerable
>reputation, who also happens to be an opera lover, and who just happens to
>be Jewish, I have heard talking on Wagner. He didn't seem to believe that
>anti-semitism was an all-consuming passion for Wagner. 

Evidence of diaries, letters, and published writings suggests otherwise.

>Richard Strauss is another matter; I've long understood that he was a
>paid-up member of the Nazi party.

Don't be too sure.  Strauss' relationship with the Nazis was very complex.
Sometimes expedient, sometimes strained.  He was forced out of his job as 
figurehead leader of German music when he insisted on continuing to work
with Stefan Zweig.  He wrote pieces that celebrated the state, butb also
withdrew himself from public life.

Strauss is hard to read in this matter.  I doubt, though, that he joined 
the Nazi party out of conviction, or at a particularly early date.  He
simply wasn't interested in that sort of thing.

Roger



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Why no amplified solos?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:43:22 GMT

In article <BzDoqu.Jv8@mach1.wlu.ca> mart4678@mach1.wlu.ca (Phil Martin u) writes:
>"Why do you never hear concerts of symphonic works performed on 'electric'
>instruments?"

Actually, there are a fair number of "classical" pieces (definition problem
here -- old and worn thread) that use electric instruments in interesting
ways.  Gavin(?) Bryars wrote at least a couple of pieces that make
effective (IMHO) use of an electric guitar.  "After the Requiem", on the
ECM disc by the same name, has a melancholy, lonely feel.  It's definitely
worth checking out.  The disc has more electric guitar stuff on it, if
memory serves.

Also featuring the electric guitar is the ECM disc of Steve Reich's
"Electric Counterpoint".  It is kind of fun to listen to, but won't satisfy
you as much as the above because it really doesn't make use of the
versatility of the instrument.  No effects, no distortion, etc.

A piece that I found really haunting was a quintet (?) for wind instruments
and tape/sampler.  At the beginning, the acoustic instruments play a tune
for a while, and then all of a sudden the tape comes in playing altered
forms of the instruments.  It is supposed to represent a dream at that
point, and the capabilities of the tape part allow a literal representation
of the surreal elements of the dream.  It's done pretty well.  Hell if I
can remember who wrote the piece, but it's on a Crystal disc along with
three "plain" wind quintets.  Actually Barber's "Summer Music" is my
favorite piece on that disc.

I guess there was all sorts of avant-garde stuff done with tape and early
synthesizers in the 20th century.

Well, none of the works I mentioned are symphonic.  The first symphonic
work that comes to mind that makes use of an electric instrument is the
(in)famous Turangalila-Symphonie by Oliver Messaien.  It uses the ondes
Martenot, which makes a kind of whistle-like sound and is used mainly for
unusual portamento effects (trills, glissandos, etc.).  Messaien used this
instrument in other works, too.

-chris

P.S.: BTW, I'll add a pro-Turangalila vote to the recent Messaien thread.
      Maybe it is too recent a work to be judged, but I enjoy it, plain and
      simple.  I like listening to the unique effects, especially with
      rhythm, scales, and texture, and I don't find it at all taxing or
      difficult to experience.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:40:32 EST
From: <MLH119@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Bela Bartok info.

Could anyone tell me what the name of the piece of Bartok's music that was
used in the soundtrack to the movie, The Shining.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Michael Hock --- MLH119 at PSUVM
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical