From: aabiyaba@edag.ptdg.sharp.co.jp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: The vanquished always want to imitate the victor (Ibn Khaldun)
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:43:14 GMT
	<Dec.22.15.11.44.1992.10738@pilot.njin.net>
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic
Organization: Production Technology Lab., SHARP Corp., Tenri, Nara, Japan
In-reply-to: hubey@pilot.njin.net's message of 22 Dec 92 20:11:44 GMT


hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:

>Lotfi, do us a favor.  Would you please write out in Arabic
>and give a translation of the phrase that every Muslim must
>repeat many times in his lifetime--the part at the end of
>prayer when he says something like this; "O God, if you had
>really loved me you would have made me a Semite (i.e. a descendant
>of Abraham)". 

If I may interpolate...

The sequence at the end of the prayer consists of two parts:
<attahiyyat> (salutations to Allah, greeting of peace to the Prophet, 
		invocations of blessings upon ourselves and other believers, 
		and an affirmation of the Islamic creed).
<salam>	     (invocations of Allah's [i] blessings and [ii] bounty
		"upon our leader Mohammed and his family just as"
		 Allah had done with Abraham and his family).

If taken literally, 'family' would mean immediate relatives.
It does not mean the Arabs to whom the Prohpet was preaching since the
Quran states that Muhammad "is not the father of anyone among you."
I don't know how it be taken to mean 'semite' since Quranically the 
Arabs and Hebrews both descended from Abraham.  So what's the point
in invoking both Abraham and Muhammad?  It would seem to refer to 
those who follow Muhammad's sharia.  Abraham may be mentioned because
he is often referred to as a "hanif" - an upright believer in the One
God of all mankind.  This is the essence of being a muslim.  Not ethnicity.

>[Mark's affected moral outrage deleted]

>And why is it that Arabic names such as Slave-of-Allah (Abdullah)
>is Ok for a Turk but not Allah-in-Kulu is a strange name noone
>would use ?

I don't know about Turkey but in South Asia we have names such as
Ghulam Nabi, Allah Bakhsh etc.  

>Explain why a Turk could repeat ; "God please treat us like
>the great descendants of Abraham" without feeling degraded (after

Never heard of it.

>Explain to us why all the people had messengers sent to them but
>the only ones were apparently Semites (Babylonians, Arameans, Judeans,
>Arabs)--no Turks, no Russians, no Frenchmen.

Have you considered that the Quran mentions semitic prophets in
order to place Allah's message in the cultural context of the people 
it was initially revealed in.  However, Islam is a universal message
to all of humanity.  This is frequently emphasized in the Quran and it
is repeatedly asserted that all people were sent their warners.
Anyone who has glanced even cursorily at the Quran can understand this.

	We have presented every kind of parable in this Quran
	but if you bring them (unbelievers) signs they say: 
	"they (muslims) talk but vanities" 
	Does thus Allah permit the sealing of the hearts of 
	those who do not know. 
		-My translation of the end of Sura Rome

>I can go on for a long time but I'll stop here.

Please do stop your sarcasm.  Peace be upon those who seek God's guidance,

--Ahmed Biyabani
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6086 talk.politics.mideast:24411