From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Suppressing the freedom of speech by hiding behind "news.admin.policy".
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 18:57:42 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <DGILBERT.92Dec18212220@gamiga.uucp> dgilbert@gamiga.uucp (dgilbert) writes:

>I've only been following this discussion for a couple of days, but
>today's posts seemed only to confim (not deny as they were intended
>to) the position of the net in general vs. Serdar Argic.  

You have been arguing with yourself; I never said a word about you
posting your bigotry. In any case, I am not willing to expend the 
effort required in order to prove a point. Since you and "visserian"
seem so happy to put the burden of proof on the one who is making the
point, I would suggest that you make the effort.

>In
>particular, he quoted a short amount of my previous post, then
>proceeded in a completely off topic post of some other information
>that has absolutely no relavance to news.admin.policy whatsoever.

How quaint of you to point this out, and then completely ignore all
of the points I've made, many of whom are not dependent on whether or 
not we're talking about inside or outside of "news.admin.policy".
Now, try dealing with the rest of what I wrote.


12/12 Armenian Atrocities Reported

   MOSCOW (AP) -- Azerbaijani forces on Saturday retook
three villages seized by Armenians and discovered 16 bodies
of executed civilians, Azerbaijani reports said.
   The Azerbaijani fighters found 16 bodies of civilians,
including those of a child and two elderly women who were
shot point-blank, "and survivors were killed by a shot to
the back of the head," said a ministry statement, carried by
the Azerbaijani Azerinform and Turan news agencies and the
ITAR-Tass news service.
   "Everywhere Armenian occupants were, they left tens of
corpses of civilians shot to death point-blank and
mutilated," the... 

Serb Learnt Rape and Murder - A Report by Richard Beeston The Times (UK)
(14/12/92)
===========================

Borislav Herak delivered his gruesome confession of murder, rape and butchery
in a clipped and awkward monotone which is as painful to watch as his story is
to hear.

He learned hand-to-hand combat using live pigs and was taught how to throw
them, hold them down and slit their throats. Later he was told to practise
on Bosnian prisoners of war and rape and kill young Bosnian women.

"I did it because I had no choice, I had to obey orders," said the captured 
Serb fighter, whose deeds and his mitigation of them are chillingly reminiscent
of the last time war crimes were committed in central Europe, half a century
ago. The account of his six months service with Serbian forces north of 
Sarajevo is expected next month to be the basis for the war crimes trial of 
the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, when he will be charged with genocide,
mass murder, rape and looting under Article 41 of the Yugoslav criminal code.

His eyewitness testimony, the first by a participant in the notorious 
"ethnic cleaning", should also offer a unique insight into how Serb forces
killed tens of thousands of Muslim and Croat Bosnians and drove hundreds 
of thounds from their homes in the past eight months of fighting.

The most disturbing episodes of Mr Heraks's activities began in June,
soon after he left his home in Sarajevo and joined the Biochanska
Serb Militia where he received his basic training. The first hint
of the sort of work expected of him emerged when he and other Bosnian
Serb volunteers were shown a demonstration of hand-to-hand combat
using pigs. Soon afterwards, in the village of Donja Bioca, he was 
ordered to repeat the exercise on Bosnian Muslims, Mr Herak, 21, 
said in an interview at Sarajevo's Victor Bubanj military prison.

He killed three prisoners with a 6in hunting blade, an episode he
recounted in a detached, almost dispassionate fasion: "They did not
resist, but one of them told me he had a wife and two children. His
name was Ahmed Ziad Osman." Mr Herak volunteered the information 
readily and insisted that he had not been coerced or mistreated during 
his captivity. Professor Aida Hasimbegovic, a clinical psychologist, 
said he displayed no severe psycological problems that would make him 
unfit to stand trial.

That impression was confirmed when he described in a clear manner the grim
saga of how his unit took part in the "cleansing" of the Muslim village
of Ahatovic, north of Sarajevo, last summer. This time he used a Kalash-
nikov rifle to shoot 20 civilians and the joined other Serbs in looting
homes.

"The order was that nobody should stay alive, we should kill everybody,"
he said, adding that the instructions had come down the Serbian chain
of command from the area commander in the town of Ilijas. "We did not 
have any choice. He told us what had to be done, and we did it."

In probably the most gruesome episode, he said that Serb fighters
were encouraged to rape young Bosnians at a prison turned military
brothel where inmates were killed to make way for newcomers.

"They told us for the sake of Serbian morale that we should go to
the prison at the Sonja Motel in Vogosca where there were 80 to 90
girls", he said, speaking through an interpreter. "I went about 10
times in all, maybe two or three times a week. I was told by Miro
Vukovic, [the Serbian Commander of the brothel] to take the girls 
away and kill them because there was no room to keep them or enough
food to feed them.

"I raped the girls in the motel and then took them to the Zuc hill
[north of Sarajevo], shot them and hid their bodies. I raped 10 girls
in their twenties and killed six of them," he said, identifying
the victims by name - Anissa, Fatima, Maira, Sabina and Senada.
He insisted that he was forced to act against his will because of
the threat of punishment by his superiors. He added that Serb commanders
continually told their men that Bosnian troops were performing worse
against Serbian civilians and that they were in a fight for their
survival.

What makes his account disturbing is the clear impression that his actions
were by no means an isolated but part of a widespread practise. The prospect
of trial and execution did not daunt the young prisoner, who said that
he looked forward to the judgement because he could no longer live with
what he had done. But he doubted it would have any impact in preventing
further brutalities.

"All I know is that while I am here sitting and talking, these same horrors
are going on somewhere else," he said.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)