From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Proofs of the Bible (Long, but filled with information)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:01:05 GMT
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In article <1992Nov11.131233.3887@wkuvx1.bitnet>, barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>   It was written by 40 or so different men over a period of 1500 years on
> three different continents, yet still retains an incredible unity - of
> doctrine, of style, of morality, and of theme.  

Given that a council went through many books and picked and chose which ones to
put into the Canon, this is far less surprising than it seems.  For that
matter, Christians are not even agreed on which books are to be included in the
Bible, and which are to be relegated to the Apocrypha.

>   Now remember - all of these are universally regarded as accurate.  Let's
> compare them to the New Testament - 24,633 total MSS and 5338 complete MSS!
> The second-most is Homer's Iliad, with only 643.  In addition, these date
> to within 40-300 years of the autograph.  To reject the accuracy of these
> is to reject all we know about the ancient world as historically inaccurate
> as well.

This establishes that what is written is indeed what the original author wrote,
but does not establish the truth of the writing.

>   Proof for the Bible being the Word of God:
> 1) It claims to be - as I said, every man is allowed to testify on his own
>     behalf, so the Bible's claim must be counted as evidence, even if that
>     evidence is taken a little more lightly than some of the exterior evi-
>     dence.  

Such a claim by itself is not evidence.  This is why coroborating evidince is
such a sought-after thing.

>     I trust we can agree that the Bible claims to be the sole rev-
>     elation of God to man; no Apocrypha, no additions, etc.

Who's Bible?  The Protestants', Catholics', Coptics', Gnostics', or someone
else's?

> 2) The unity of the Bible - A unity of facts, purpose, and teaching.  Its
>     theme is that of the salvation from sin.  It begins with the creation,
>     sin marring it, and God conceiving a great plan to redeem man from his
>     sins, and goes from there.

That a story has a begginning, middle, and end is hardly evidence of it's
truth.  Again, see above to refer to the editing process.

> 3) The great moral teachings of the Bible - No other book has ever
>     condemned immorality so severely or demanded as high a standard of
>     righteousness.  It is virtually unique among religious documents.

Check out the Code of Hammurabbi, the Q'ran, Main Kamf, and so forth.

> 4) Its Unparallelled Impartiality - "Human books extol the virtues and
>     suppress the vices of their heroes.  Not so with the Bible.  It makes
>     no attempt to conceal, minimize, or apologize for the weaknesses,
>     mistakes, and wrongdoings of even its greatest characters.  It tells of
>     the sins of friend and foe alike." (Jimmy Thomas - I could think of no
>     better way to phrase it in my own words).

I know of several works of fiction which do the same.

> 5) The Brevity of the Bible - So much, virtually a history of the world, is
>     packed into so few pages.  It tells the 33-year life of the most
>     important man ever to walk the earth in four short books.

Brevity is proof?  Come again?
The history of the world?  Where does it discuss China?  Africa?  Europe?

> 6) The Life of Jesus - That Jesus existed is virtually indisputable.  The
>     testimony of those closest to him indicated His sinless perfection.
>     Such a perfect person could never have been so perfectly created by any
>     man.

Quite the contrary, Jesus' existence is quite widely disputed.  Further, you
assume the veracity of the statements made about him.

> 7) The Fulfillment of Prophecy - Modern self-proclaimed "prophets" usually
>     get about 10-20% right; the Bible's all come true in exactly the way
>     predicted.  The odds of Jesus fulfilling (whether accidentally and/or
>     by design) the prophecies applying to Him are beyond calculation.

Beyond calculation if he did it by design?  How many prophecies did he fulfill,
and which?

> 8) The Bible's Scientific Foreknowledge - One of the areas I personally
>     find fascinating.  Being pre-scientific, it should attribute the
>     workings of nature to colorful myths and be woefully inaccurate - if it
>     was written by man. In the 19th century, Herbert Spencer first
>     announced the 5 fundamental facts of science; yet the Bible covered all
>     5 in the first 2 verses: "In the beginning [time - jdb] God created the
>     heavens [space] and the earth [matter].  And the spirit of God moved 
>     [force] upon the face of the waters [motion]."

The book which has the Earth orbiting the Sun?

>       The Bible said the earth was round (Is 40:22, Prov 8:27, Lk
>     17:34-36).  Not too long ago, great minds were convinced the earth was
>     held up by Atlas or something like him; read Job 26:7 to hear what the
>     Bible claimed.  

Er... the word in Hebrew used to describe the world is "circle", not "sphere." 
The writers of the Bible believed the Earth to be flat.

>  Until recently, doctors had no idea how that blood
>     contained, in essence, the life of man, but the Bible did (Lev 17:11,
>     14).  

Can you expound on this one further?  How does blood contain the life of man in
a way that, say, the brain doesn't?

> 9) The Bible's Undeniable Influence for Good - When taken in its purity
>     (I do not consider the adulterated version pushed by denominations
>     to be pure), it has done nothing but good.  It makes those who
>     would obey it the model parents, friends, neighbors, and citizens, if 
>     obeyed.

And Crusaders and Inquisitors.

Next?
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
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