HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:11:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.220934.4121@thinkage.on.ca> 
kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.202649.19552@ncsu.edu>
>steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>If you want to know who they are, just peruse the list below, where I've
>>delineated *SUSPECTED* cheats.  You might be surprised.  Some people don't
>>even cheat *well*.  At least it's *FINALLY* over.  :-)
>>
>>   ---A List Of Suspected Ballot-Box Stuffers---
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In order to make everyone as happy as possible, the above title is hereby
retroactively changed to:
     ---A List Of Suspected Ballot-Box Boo-Boos---

>> CAD8025@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca "Problem Reporting, A" 
>> ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca Mike Mychalkiw 
>> ADVI8721@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca advisor's utility disk 
>     ^^ consider the possibility he simply got the nearest couple
>     of co-workers to vote too.

This was considered.  I would like to see names attached to these "users",
in a manner that would uniquely and adequately identify them as someone
other than "Mike Mychalkiw".  I'd like the net to be able to scrutinize
this to the "usual" level of *proof*, whatever that is. I realize that
this may be inherently unworkable due to the possibility of forgery.  I
understand that vote-taking and subsequent verification can be a nightmare.
I'd also like to see this "usual level of proof" defined.

>> FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU Joel Furr 
>> Furr@cup.portal.com 
>     ^^ i know for a fact these to be different persons, Furr@cup.portal
>    was visiting me last week...
>    Furr is a nickname, not a realname.

This is *very* good news.  This means Joel Furr's name can now be forever
erased from the Boo-Boo list!

>> sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu "Shirl G. Grant" 
>> sggrant+@pitt.edu Shirley G Grant 
>> 
>> sybase!leighann@Sun.COM Leigh Ann Hussey 
>> sybase!leighann@Sun.COM Leigh Ann Hussey Oster 
>
>also consider the possibility of people
>   a) absent minded and forgot they already voted

Perhaps some people don't keep adequate records of their outgoing email.

>   b) confused about the whole process and voted "to be sure" knowing
>      that "hey, no problem, they will remove any duplicates"

I can understand how someone might be confused about the voting process.

Like I've said in many posts, honest mistakes are understandable, and are
certainly not shameful.  If these were honest mistakes, then it's OK.
Is it too much to ask for the "Boo-Boo-Maker" to give an explanation?

>get off your moral indignation steve...

Apparently you want me to silently tolerate the potential for vote-abuse.
I won't acquiesce to that, Ken.

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu       "Ineluctably Prolix" - John Norman Sims, Jr.
Come an' get it!  Served up nice an' *hot*!!  Get yer FREEEEE *logorhea*!!!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Re: Much to your relief...
Reply-To: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:27:59 GMT

What are you talking about? Please use more descriptive subjects.


In article <1992Aug12.172545.1596@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> 	George is going to conduct a straw poll to see about r.a.e and I mailed
> Dave Lawrence to ask him to comment on whether the current RFD/CFV guidelines
> are sufficient to remove/replace a moderator, so I'll keep quiet until we have
> the results from these two fact finding missions.
> 
> Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
> to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<23916@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:57:50 GMT

In article <23916@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix) writes:

   Lets pick a name and have a vote.  I personally like comp.graphics.gnuplot 
   or gnu.gnuplot (in spite of gnuplot not being a FSF product). 

But gnu is not a USENET hierarchy (i.e., subject to the Guidelines), so
that name is not available for a vote.  FSF (or someone else) administers
gnu.*, so they'd have to OK and create it.

But go ahead and propose it to them if that's what you want.  Perhaps
a straw poll first to see which people prefer.

Good luck.
--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.unix.* reorganization
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:48:39 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Keywords: worthless

peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

> paul@devon.lns.pa.us (Paul Sutcliffe Jr.) writes:
>
> >peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >
> >>"Which is better, Computone whizzbang or Digiboard Geewhiz?"
> 
> >That's not a UNIX issue, it's a HARDWARE issue.  Note that Computone
> >and Digiboard products work with {PC,MS}-DOS and PICK, as well as UNIX.
> 
> I am honestly puzzled. What on earth would you do with a multiport serial
> card in a single-user operating system? Pick I can understand, but MS-DOS
> needs Digiboard like a fish needs an umbrella.

Technically yes. But people using MS-DOS with something else (Desqview,
Windoze, Major BBS) will find this sort of hardware useful.

Although I'd agree that the major use of this sort of gear is for things
like Unix.

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 63 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
Xref: sparky news.groups:16935 rec.motorcycles:27701 rec.motorcycles.racing:971 rec.motorcycles.dirt:1344 alt.motorcycles.harley:671
From: gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Date: 18 Aug 1992 06:01:02 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Summary: Have a Clue, they're Cheap...

People who don't understand the voting process really shouldn't 
do things like this...

[much deleted for brevity]

In article <1992Aug17.202649.19552@ncsu.edu> steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>>>>+laszlo@columbine.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
>>>>>+laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
>>>>Anyone caught stuffing the ballot box should have *all* of their votes
>>>>disqualified.
>[...]
>I briefly considered the possibility you put forth, and dismissed it.
>[...]
>If you want to know who they are, just peruse the list below, where I've
>delineated *SUSPECTED* cheats.  You might be surprised.  Some people don't
>even cheat *well*.  At least it's *FINALLY* over.  :-)

The above is an exercise in uninformed paranoia.

EVERY SINGLE USENET VOTE I'VE EVER SEEN, _INCLUDING_ the three or
four that I've run, has had duplicate votes.  Usually five percent
or so of the total.

That's part of the job of the vote taker: sort them out.  It's also part
of the job of the newsreading public to inform them so a corrected
total can be made if they miss some (which happens; honest mistakes
usually.  You wouldn't believe how hard it can be to count votes ... ).

There is no Usenet guideline against voting as many times as you like.
The only restriction is that the latest vote and only that latest vote
is the only one to count in the final tally.

If you find a duplicate or suspected duplicate, post it.  Don't scream
for dismissal of that person's votes.  Nobody will in the end get counted
twice unless several hundred people are all asleep as they read news.
The votetaker is supposed to investegate and correct things like this
that are noticed.  If they don't and it would have changed the vote
result, then that result can be challenged and will likely not stand.
Unless that happens, just point out duplicates and let the process work.
We've done this over a thousand times now 8-)


-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com  herbert@uchu.isu92.ac.jp until 28 aug
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Alok, soc.culture.indian.american and soc.culture.tamil
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:37:19 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <1992Aug21.224659.20810@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In either vote the organizer factor was only third in importance.

But of primary importance in the discussions which overturned the first
vote.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not
 be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
		- United States Constitution, Amendment IX.
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:03:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I still like the idea of a group devoted to discussing urban *non-auto*
transit issues (although the name "misc.auto-free" doesn't grab me; I like
"misc.transport" better -- although I fail to see the distinction between
that and the original title; after all, in Europe, isn't "transport" used
much as "transit" is used in the US?), but based on the voices heard from
thus far, I wonder if one of the desired effects -- a dialogue between
rail-transit advocates/fans (note: the two overlap, but are not identical)
and those concerned about "non-motorized" transport (bikes/feet) -- may not
come to pass.

Much of the discussion of rail transit that I read on rec.railroad, for
instance, focuses on such things as rolling stock, structures, and routes
past/present/future -- the "nuts and bolts" of railroading: usually the
audience for this material is at least somewhat smitten by trains already
and (I fear) would have a hard time (at least initially) meshing with those
not so smitten.  (A recent move on the part of my local transit authority,
which I will comment on in rec.railroad, provides a good example of the
gap separating the two.)

Events may prove me wrong if the group is created, and I hope they do, 
but I suspect we may find some of the participants talking *past* each
other initially.
___________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr.
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
Internet: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!" -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City
of Kansas City, Mo.
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
From: sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL: changing a moderator
Followup-To: news.admin.policy
Reply-To: demon@desire.wright.edu
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 01:02:25 GMT

[For readers of news.admin.policy: There are currently several threads
 running in news.groups about changing guidelines to accomodate
 moderator changes and since many of you may be skipping news.groups
 this is just FYI. Since Dave Lawrence had expressed that it could be
 discussed in news.admin.policy followups directed there. Replies to
 demon@desire.wright.edu. - sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu]

demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes on news.groups:

[... some stuff deleted ... Please use the Reference line to go to the
parent article.]

)	Therefore (but without hope of actually changing things) I will run a
)straw poll.  The poll with ask what the usenet readers think about moderator
)changes.  I encourage everyone to spread news of the straw poll to groups they
)read often.  I will only post it here in news.groups.
)
)	Without further ado, here is the poll.  Please answer YES, NO or DK
)(don't know/don't care).
)================================
)
)[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to change moderators.
)
)[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to unmoderate a group.
)
)[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to moderate a group.
)
)[vote]	The current RFD/CFV method is sufficient for ensuring fairness.
)
)[vote]	The moderator of news.announce.newgroups should have veto power over
)	moderator changes.
)
)[vote]	It would take a lot for me to vote in favor of unseating a current 
)	moderator.
)
)        The vote will run from today (August 13th) until midnight, EDT, August
)26th.  Results will be posted by the following Monday.
)
)	Send email to demon@wsu.bitnet or demon@desire.wright.edu.  Replying to
)this message will get your vote here.
)
)Brett Kottmann
)demon@wsu.bitnet
)demon@desire.wright.edu
From: cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:52:16 GMT
Reply-To: cory@enigami.mv.com
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Aug12.144005.5291@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> (news.groups), huggins@dss1.austin.ibm.com (Jim Huggins         (8-8305)) writes:
>Ok.  Let's try proposing a specific set of new rules to handle what
>for lack of a better term I'll call a "hostile takeover" of a 
>moderated newsgroup.  I always find it much easier to criticize
>a specific proposal rather than some vague, ethereal idea.

>1) Person interested in assuming new moderator duties contacts
>   old moderator and inquires about becoming the new moderator.

What if the person who is bringing up the problem does not want (for
whatever reason) to become the new moderator?  Not, that I think that
this is necessarily a problem -- if they feel strongly enough about
it threy probably should be willing to put their time/effort where
their mouth is.

>2) Person conducts a "petition drive".  Person posts a request
>   for support for removing the current moderator to relevant
>   news groups.  Person must receive (through e-mail) 100 
>   messages in support of removing the current moderator 
>   within 30 days of the original posting.

I can agree with this, except for three problems: To get to the point
of a petition drive, the moderator must decide not to step down. Given
that decision, what happens if the moderator doesn't want to post
the article (not supported within the charter, etc)?

The topic may need discussion before people will understand why to
make the change.  As I have explained before, I can conceive of a
reason to change moderators that would require a discussion period
before people would be convinced that a change was required, but after
a reasonable discussion, the majority would demand the change.

Why 100?  Why not 25?  Or 10?  I would think that a number on the
order of 10 would be in range that a single person could, via e-mail,
collect signatures for, even without a full discussion.  Trying to
convince 100 people of something via e-mail, in a 30 day period would
be impossible!

+C


-------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
cory@enigami.mv.com           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Annon:	wi.5036@wizvax.methuen.ma.us

"F' cryin' out loud, it's *your* life; shouldn't you at least examine 
your lifestyle values to see if they are really what *you* want."
										--Keith Lim
From: toho@parc.xerox.com (Masato Toho)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: bogus control messages for fj.* (was Re: Bogus moderated groups)
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:29:12 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, CA

David,

In article <2288@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

> Maybe it's only here in Japan, but when I started getting news a
> year or so ago I got lots of control messages that tell me to do
> this or tell me to do that, and then soon after I did it, all kinds
> of weird things would happen like hundreds of articles going to junk,
> etc. So my policy has been to just adgroups as I can't figure out
> what is a real control message and what is bogus. 

You are talking about fj groups, right?

I'm sorry about your confusion. One person has been sending bogus
control messages for many fj groups for a couple of years. He sent
rmgroup mainly, newgroup rarely, and moderated newsgroup recently. 

The discusstion about fj groups are held in fj.news.group, if you read
it, you could see what is a real control message. They are, however,
talking in Japanese there, unfortunately.

My suggesion for you about fj groups is:

	Ignore all control messages from:
		 mohta@necom830.cc.titec.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta)

	Honor control messages from:
		saitoh@icsts1.osaka-u.ac.jp (Akinori Saitoh)

A control message for fj from other person is probably sent by a
mistake or an accsident.

Today, mohta@necom830.cc.titec.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta) sent anothrer rmgroup
for fj.living, Message-ID: <1871@titccy.cc.titech.ac.jp>.
Please ignore it.

P.S. Have USENET had this kind of problem before?

--
Masato Toho, Fuji Xerox Co.,Ltd. (at Xerox PARC)
toho@parc.xerox.com (preferred)
toho@rst.fujixerox.co.jp
"It takes all the running you can do to keep in the same place"
Xref: sparky news.groups:17061 rec.bicycles:21512
From: stevew@hal.COM (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: MTB newsgroup, any interest?
Summary: No really
Date: 22 Aug 92 06:19:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wave9.hal.com

In a recent article, parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:
>Shut up Tom...  Many of the people that would still like to see a
>rec.mtb group are the same people who pushed for it during the
>discussion period.  Many of these same people voted NO for the split,
>but were out number (obviously).
>
>I would still like to see an mtb group even if it is only in the 'alt'
>hierarchy.  If anyone else is interested (or even if not) could you
>please pass on to me info on how to start newsgroup RFD's, CFV's, etc.
>and/or how to create an 'alt' group.
>
>I'm not looking for independence form the rec.bikers, just another
>option for those of us with strong interests in mountain bikes...

Consider this one more NO-vote from a long-time, mountain-bike-only
reader of rec.b.  After hanging in through the years when MTB posts
were few and far between, I have no desire to segregate us for no real
reason.  "tech" is "tech", "racing" is "racing" , etc.  If we start a
vague MTB group now, we'll further confuse those who can't handle the
upcoming split, plus we'll arrive at a split-point ourselves in a
couple of years.

I'm not in 101% agreement with the precise particulars of the split,
but we'll all get used to it, and it's clear (IMHO, IMHO!) that
something had to be done.  My thanks to Bruce and Les for forcing the
issue.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Williams
HaL Computer Systems            What the world doesn't need is more
Austin, Texas                   "casual Kate Bush fans".  What the world
stevew@hal.com                  needs more of is F*CKING KATE BUSH MANIACS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:53:24 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

[Les's announcement that the rec.bicycles reorg passed deleted]

Anyone want to guess how long it takes before someone starts a thread
on *unifying* all the rec.bicycle.* groups?  Or which subgroup the thread
first appears on?
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
			   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
From: udbrooks@mcs.drexel.edu (Drexel Reeks Like Hell!)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Changing PHEAA's policy to 5-year Program
Date: 22 Aug 92 06:11:12 GMT
Distribution: pa
Organization: Drexel University


To all college and college-bound students:


  PHEAA has a grant program that only provides funds for 4 years.  Many
schools with 5-year programs are filled with students who are suffering
because of that!   I am trying to start a letter campaign to force
the state legislature to PHEAA to grant the same monetary amount of grants
OVER A FIVE-YEAR PERIOD!  

 I WOULD ADVISE ALL PENNSYLVANIA STUDENTS TO
WRITE THEIR CONGRESSMEN, IN EFFECT TO CHANGE PHEAA'S POLICY!!



   I am a Drexel University student, going into my senior year.  The 
biggest problem I'm facing right now is obtaining the funds to continue
my education.

   Another complaint is this regulation where PHEAA can only grant funds
for the first 4 years.  Drexel University is a 5-year college.  How are
Drexel students going to feel when they reach their senior year?  What
really upsets me is that 4 years ago, I had absolutely no idea that this
was going to come!  Is someone going to tell the incoming freshmen and
unaware upperclassmen--or are they going to get stabbed in the back at 
the last minute!  Of course, maybe if you tell the incoming freshmen and
transfer students that, some of them may decide to go to another school!
What the state legislature should do is to change the policy to ALLOW 
PHEAA to spread its maximum aid--over a 5-year period!  PHEAA should be
aware that by following this procedure, they will be SAVING money per
year.  The whole purpose of PHEAA was to provide funds for students to
help them through college (from freshman year to graduation)--NOT take
students three-quarters of the way and ABANDON them!  If students don't
get their degrees, then they can't get good-paying jobs.  Hence, employers
suffer because of the lack of qualified people for jobs.  Remember, it's
not just Drexel--some other colleges offer 5-year program and most
students (nowadays) are spending 4 1/2 to 5 years in college, instead of
4 years.  I WOULD ADVISE ALL PENNSYLVANIA STUDENTS TO
WRITE THEIR CONGRESSMEN, IN EFFECT TO CHANGE PHEAA'S POLICY!!

   -- David Brooks
      Philadelphia, PA  (Drexel University)
From: ma1w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Joseph Andy)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley
Subject: LEAVE!!! (was: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:33:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EeYmuxm00WB8QHgVtW
	<1992Aug20.003249.29406@wolves.uucp>
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Howdy,

Would you people kindly take this d**m discussion off to news.groups
or rec.mc where it belongs, rather than crossposting it to every
bboard in existance?  I doubt that the readers of rec.mc.dirt or
rec.mc.racing are any more interested than I am in this stupid
argument.  And if they are, they can read it on news.groups or rec.mc.

Thanks,

Mark

| Mark J. Andy			WERA NV #813		AMA #700560	|
| ma1w+@cmu.edu			KotR			DoD #813	|
| Co-founder/Rider, Team RISC and Two Geeks Racing			|
| '82 Seca 650 (street), '85 RZ350 (track), '87 KDX200 (the humbler)	|
| I want RZ350 parts like steering damper, fork brace, SS lines, etc... |
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley