HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: logging solo and ground time
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:55:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: eecs.1992Nov16.165553.1626
Distribution: na
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

In article <1992Nov14.090038.20098@peck.com>, geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov13.161702.28228@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William
|> LeFebvre) writes:
|> > My new CFII showed me a FAR that I had never seen before.  I don't
|> > have the exact reference handy (please don't shoot me), but it is in
|> 
|> BANG!  BANG!  (Good grief, folks, let's take the time to look up the FARs
|> before we go off posting random things like this...)

I don't have my on-line copy handy.  :-)

|> Perhaps you mean:
|> 
|> 61.189 Flight instructor records.

That's the one!

|> In fact, _all_ ratings (private, instrument, commercial, CFI) do
|> require that ground instruction _or_its_equivalent_ have been given
|> to an applicant.

True, but none of the ratings (even the CFI, according to what you posted)
require a specific minimum number of HOURS of ground time, nor do they
require (except for the CFI rating) that the ground instruction even be
logged in any form.  That was the point I was trying to make.

The other, I think, interesting thing to note is that the student is
not necessarily required to have the time logged, but the instructor
is (by FAR 61.189) required to log the time in the student's record!

|> To which a most reasonable answer is
|> 
|>     "Would anyone _care_?"

That's the key!  :-)


|>     (2) should the student ever have an accident or incident, a record
|> 	will be in the logbook (and, if the instructor is _really_
|> 	careful, in the instructor's records)

Also required by 61.189, as I recall.

Thanks, Geoff.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: jim@fjolsvid.css.gov (Jim Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: For Sale: Telex Pro-Air 2000E headset
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:05:42 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Science Applications Int'l Corp./Geophysics Div.

For sale:

Telex Pro-Air 2000E headset, very slightly used (1.8 hrs) with
original box and unfilled warranty card.  It's my second backup
headset, selling to partially justify upgrading to some sort of
ANR.  Features: electret mic, 24 dB NRR, very adjustable mic and quite
comfortable earcups.  Adjustable clamping pressure, separate volume
controls on each ear.  Asking $150 or best offer.

Jim
(jim@fjolsvid.css.gov)
619 458-2717
(San Diego area)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Taildragger Tail Low Takeoffs
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:30:31 GMT

!In article <15566@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
!>In article <1992Nov19.160934.24091@cbnews.cb.att.com>, tel@cbnews.cb.att.com 
!>(thomas.e.lester) writes:
!>> I was never taught keep the tail down for short field.  This seems
!>> 	counter intuitive given the increased drag of the tail wheel
!>> 	and high AOA in this configuration. In fact I was taught quite
!>> 	the opposite.  Hold brakes at very edge of runway, get full rpm,
!>> 	release, get the tail up ASAP for short field.
!>> -- 
!>
!>I was taught to keep the tail down for a soft field take off
!>not a short field -- the short field required getting the tail
!>up as soon as possible to reduce drag...
!>
	Yes, I agree with this.   The tail low on soft field was in case 
    the mains got stuck. Tail high would mean a nose over.  So keep the
    tail down to prevent this. Of course this increased takeoff roll
    quite a bit. Especially since you were supposed to NEVER stop rolling,
    i.e  keep rolling from taxi to runway as you apply throttle to 
    avoid sinking in the mud.   Of course this would vary with conditions.
    I guess not many people still fly tail draggers, and even fewer
    fly them out of soft muddy short fields.

    Sorry if I misread the original.  I thought it said short field.
-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: HangAr, durnit, HANGAR!!
Keywords: Stearman
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:09:10 GMT

I really never thought of myself as one of those nit-picking sorts, but
I have a personal nit to pick (fresh-picked nits go for about 50 cents a
bushel these days).

HangAr = the building in which aircraft are housed.

HangEr = equals a device used to hang clothing -- or to perform back-alley
	abortions.

I recently (yesterday) saw a letter written by the head of one of the top
aviation-related institutions in America -- one in which the word "hangar"
was spelled with an "E."  ARRRGGGHHHH!!!  Quayle must have been his spelling
coach!

If a word has an "ER" suffix, it means that he, she, or it does that thing.
(eg: griper, bull[throw]er, whiner, screamer, looper, nitpicker, etc.)

You don't HANG an airplane in a HANGAR.

			Harrumpph,	

					Bill


[set soapbox mode off]
[set holier-than-thou mode on]
[set fire to the flamethrowers]
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Museums in Los Angeles
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:32:02 GMT

Lawrence H. Miller writes
> In article <1992Nov18.153317.12738@nuchat.sccsi.com>  
conover@nuchat.sccsi.com (Mark Allen Conover) writes:
> >Looks like I will be in Los Angeles for a couple of days later
> >this week. Are there any good aviation museums?  
> 
> 	Yes indeed.  There is the Air and Space Museum
> 	(or some such name) in the exposition park 
> 	area next to the Coliseum and USC.  Also the
> 	natural history museum is there.  Has a DC-8
> 	and a DC-3 parked outside, and an F-something
> 	emerging from the side of the building.  Imax
> 	theatre too.
> 
I think this is the Museum of Science and Industry.  The park outside  
has an ex-United DC-8-50 and a DC-3; there's an F-104 on a pylon near  
the main entrance.  Inside there's an Northrop F-20 and a P-51B,  
among other things.  

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: dls@freedom.genrad.com (Diana L. Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Air sickness question
Date: 20 Nov 1992 07:19:43 -0500
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: freedom.genrad.com

In article <48160003@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> joell@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Joel Larner) writes:
>> The pilot told me it was a perspective problem, that it came
>> from looking down too much, weird angles and all.  
>
>I would suspect this came from a combination of many things: looking
>through the camera lens, and "We circled and circled and circled".
>During CAP Search operations, we spend many hours each flight doing
>nothing but looking down, and people do not often get sick.  This is
>because we do a few simply things to keep from getting sick:

Well, Joel, you've simply been lucky, I guess.  I often go as the Mission
Observer (instead of pilot) for missions.  And just about every time, I've
gotten queasy or sick.  When I start feeling bad, I simply tell the pilot
"Let's land NOW."  Generally, I feel better after walking around for 15 
minutes, then we can continue on our mission.  I have been unfortunate to
have to use the sick sack a number of times.  I can only go about 2 hours
in the backseat without getting sick.  I don't do well in the back
seat of the plane.....

However, when you're flying with three pilots, you do have to take your
"stint" as Mission Observer SOMETIMES.  I tolerate it as best I can.  I
don't generally get sick when I'm flying.

All of the things Joel recommended DO HELP.....but not enough for me :-(.

Diana

-- 
->Diana L. (Syriac) Carlson dls@genrad.com	Ham: KC1SP (Sweet Pea)      <-
->I'D RATHER BE FLYING!	P-ASEL, INST		CAP: CPT, Freedom 690 Mobile<-
->AD ASTRA, PER ASPERA				Airplane: C-172 N6513E	    <-
->GenRad, MS/6, 300 Baker Ave, Concord, Mass.  01742  (508)369-4400 x2459   <-
From: wsanders@ffeine.Sun.COM (Wiley Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: An224 at Las Vegas McCarren Airport
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:46:39 GMT
Organization: Tradeshow Tech Support
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ffeine.corp.sun.com
Summary: Big Mother

I was driving past the aiport in Las Vegas during Comdex
and noticed what appeared to be a very large Vari-Eze but
which as I got closer was the tail of an An224, the World's
Biggest Airplane. 

The plane arrived last Thursday and will be staying around until
about December 6th or 10th. It is parked on the cargo pad at the
northeast end of the field. The plance has a "CCCP" tail number 
but a Ukrainian flag on the tail.

My, that's one big airplane!

-w
--
"True love is learning to love your lover's obsessions,
or at least being able to say '...oh...that's nice...'"
                                                        -Greg Brown
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.photo
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Air sickness question
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:57:01 GMT

In article <CSTACY.92Nov19001811@cookie-crisp.ai.mit.edu>, cstacy@ai.mit.edu (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
|> In his article of  Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:11:29 GMT, John Kalucki suggested
|> the use of transdermal sciplamine patches to avoid airsickness.
|> I thought this drug has known side effects that include visual hallucinations.
|> (By the way, I'm not sure if we're spelling this "scoplamine" correctly.)


I used it once for crossing on a ferry from the south to the north island
of New Zealand. We were warned about this being a very rough ride. We dutifly
put the patches in place several hours before the boat ride and then went 
strolling through the shops. After an hour I was very torqued. I could walk
OK, but I found myself reaching out to touch stationary objects just to make
sure I would not crash into them. I could grin just fine, but not carry on 
a conversation with a stranger. I was not hallucinating, but was just 
on the verge of doing so. My wife said she felt a little lightheaded, but
not as much as me. No question: not for use by pilots (although NASA has tried
it for astronauts on the shuttle, but not any more).

As it turned out the ferry ride was fine, and I could have gone without
the drugs.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: radios and non-pilots
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:13:29 GMT

dls@freedom.genrad.com (Diana L. Carlson) writes:
>And in fact, you can have your airplane registration number be your Amateur
>callsign, IF it happens to start with an N....Dave's been thinking of changing
>ours to N1JYX :-)....

Sorry.  Among other restrictions, US aircraft registration numbers can only
have two trailing letters.
From: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Night Search
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:24:39 GMT
Reply-To: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)

Larry Uzelac writes
> This is a story about a air search that I was involved in last
> spring...  I was requested to get off the frequency by
> control towers and others as far as 100 miles away. I replied that an
> actual search for a downed aircraft was in progress.

I'd think you did the right thing by staying on 121.5, given the
circumstances.

For those with two radios, consider monitoring 121.5 while enroute.
I've started doing this routinely, when possible, and I've now
heard, oh, a half-dozen ELTs in the past couple of years.  No idea
how many of those were actual emergency transmissions (statistics
indicate VERY few were), but I still tell ATC when I hear one.
--
Alan M. Marcum
NeXT Tech Support
amm@NeXT.COM
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.misc:672 rec.photo:19810
From: swanger@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.photo
Subject: Air sickness question
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:09:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ducvax.1992Nov15.200951.1
Organization: Auburn University, AL

I went flying yesterday with a campus photographer who was going to take some
aerial pictures of the local football stadium before kickoff (stands filling
up, band doing a pre-game show, etc.).  He also had some other assignments,
but he spent a lot of time on the stadium shots.  I also took my dinky
camera along to take a few pictures.

The three of us (me, the photographer, and the pilot) were in a Cessna 172. 
I was in the back seat.  It was a cold clear day and the air was a bit
'bumpy'.  Anyway, we spent a lot of time circling the stadium and the town. 
The photographer wanted to set up shots from certain angles.  Closer,
farther out.  Up.  Down.  We circled and circled and circled, at what I
guess was about a 30 degree angle for a long time.  I was having a great
time, getting to see various landmarks from the air.  About 5 minutes before
we quit, I had an attack of nausea.  I thought it was due to the bumpiness
of the air.  The pilot told me it was a perspective problem, that it came
from looking down too much, weird angles and all.  He said that if you look
at the horizon while flying, you won't get sick.  The photographer suggested
that all of the zooming in and out I did with my camera might have caused
the problem (he used fixed length lens).  This sort of ties in with the
perspective problem I guess.

I've sort of got the bug, I would like to do this again sometime.  Since I
will be looking down the next time I do this, I want to keep from getting
sick.  Will seasick pills (dramamine (sp??) ) help?  Does anyone have any
other suggestions?  I've gone up in small planes several times before but I
didn't get sick then.  Of course, we weren't circling and circling and
circling (and circling) then.

Thanks for any help you can give.

-- 
David Swanger,   Auburn University, Alabama,   swanger@accs.duc.auburn.edu 
From: woof@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Steve Wolf)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:34:35 GMT
Subject: Atlanta Pilots?
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc

I need to make contact with pilots in the Atlanta area.  I may be
moving there and would like information on clubs/FBOs/partnerships.

I also could use some information on CAP squadrons/activities in that
area.

Thanks!
--
Steve Wolf				PHONE: (303) 229-2088
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP:  hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA:  woof@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: furtaw@comm.mot.com (Bob Furtaw)
Subject: Re: logging solo and ground t
Organization: Motorola
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:05:47 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc

In article <1e96tlINNlpc@pongo.West.Sun.COM>, brianh@smaug.West.Sun.COM
(Brian Horn) wrote:
> 
> In article <furtaw-161192082649@145.1.92.170> furtaw@comm.mot.com (Bob Furtaw) writes:
> >BTW  61.189 says "...flight instructor SHALL sign the logbook of each
> >person...FLIGHT or GROUND instruction...".  This means NO DECISION, it must
> >be done!  This is often overlooked by many instructors.  A student is often
> 
> Whoaa!!! Back up.  It is simple.  If the instruction was not logged, it
> is as if it didn't occur.  Since none is required to occur (remember the
> "or home study") none needs to occur thus doesn't need to get logged.
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                         This has more to do with 61.51 where the "logging
of other
                         flight time" isn't required.  61.189 supercedes
this.

> Or would you like to stretch it so that Geoff (and Dave, and Kerry and ...)
> all after posting (and hopefully instructing the net in some small way) were
> required to write in each and every rec.aviators logbook?

I would certainly hope that no one feels "instructed" by reading any
article to netters!...with all respect to Geoff et al.  Nor would I expect
anyone reading any aviation article in a magazine to feel instructed.  More
educated maybe, but not instructed.  There are plenty of court cases that
have cited what constitutes instruction.  The act of instruction is similar
to the "(flight time) for the purpose of flight" phrase, and subject to
similar interpretations and limitations.  For 25 years I have signed every
student's log book per the requirement.  If someone is standing by
listening, this is not instruction.  The notion that "if not logged, it
didn't occur" (para-phrased) is absurd.  The regulation is clear (and
assumes the instruction was given), for at least one on one instruction.
> 
> Note: this does *not* apply to CFI students.  There the logging *is* required.
> 
> >asked "Do you want me to sign your logbook?", without realizing he must. 
> >Sometimes the question is asked out of courtesy but most times, from
> >ingorance. There is an "out", however...the reg does NOT say WHEN the
> >logbook shall be signed...Immediately following a lesson, before a
> >recommendation, before the 3 year record (CFI) expiration date, or
> >whatever??                                                                 
> 
> Just for clarification that 3 year requirement is that CFI's must keep
> written records for 3 years, not that the CFI's certificate is good
> for 3 years.  Of course if you sign (what is allowable) off under your
> ground instructor certificate, then one is not required to keep these
> things around for the 3 years.

Yes, your clarification is accurate, I was limiting the discussion to part
61 rules.

Bob Furtaw - W8IL
CFI-A/G/I/MEI, CGI-A/I
All disclaimers ever written by anybody apply. :-)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: Re: NOTAM Decoding Questions
Keywords: NOTAM, DUAT
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:33:06 GMT

In article <ChrisF.3.722121981@mitre.org> ChrisF@mitre.org (H. Christian
Floyd) asks about NOTAM numbering:
> !BDR 11/057 FIT PTCHY THN IR

This decodes as
Fitchburg MA [FIT]: November NOTAM #57 issued by Bridgeport CT (Igor I
      Sikorsky Memorial) [BDR]:
      Patchy thin ice on runway

As you can see, the 11/057 decodes as the 57th NOTAM issued in November by
Bridgeport FSS.

> Is there an FAA (or other) publication that answers such questions?

Check Aviation Weather Services, the AIM, and Published NOTAMS.  Between
these three, you should be able to answer most questions about NOTAMs.

> Is there an FAA publication where one can look up such things as what IR 
> means (ice on runway)?  (It's not the AIM or AC 00-45C.)

Yes, the FAA does publish an Abbreviations Handbook.  However, it's
expensive and not particularly easy to obtain (subscription only from the
GPO).  Most of this publication is included in AOPA's Aviation USA.

> Does the DUAT NOTAM data base (the current data base from which 
> "relevant" NOTAMs are extracted for output in a standard DUAT briefing) 
> drop NOTAMs when they are published in the Class II NOTAMs?

It depends on what the FAA does.  Sometimes, yes, they are dropped.

> Does the DUAT NOTAM data base include all NOTAM(L) [local] information?

No.  NOTAM(L)'s were supposed to disappear some time ago, but some FSSes
still just have local NOTAMS attached to a clipboard on the wall.  Too
bad.

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman)
Subject: Re: Night Search
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:55:00 GMT

amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum) writes:

>For those with two radios, consider monitoring 121.5 while enroute.
>I've started doing this routinely, when possible, and I've now
>heard, oh, a half-dozen ELTs in the past couple of years.  No idea
>how many of those were actual emergency transmissions (statistics
>indicate VERY few were), but I still tell ATC when I hear one.

That's the right thing to do.  FYI, ELTs are about 97% false alarms.


-Brent
--
Brent Chapman                                   Great Circle Associates
Brent@GreatCircle.COM                           1057 West Dana Street
+1 415 962 0841                                 Mountain View, CA  94041
From: steveha@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Steven L Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: rec.aviation--traffic decrease
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:49:31 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Nov17.164738.1@pomona.claremont.edu> jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu writes:
>In article <2408@usna.NAVY.MIL>, dfr@usna.navy.mil writes:
>> G'day,
>> 
>> Has anyone other than me noticed the apparent decrease
>> in traffic on rec.aviation.xxxxx since the split?
>> 
>> Anyone keeping track?
>

I'm not keeping track, but I have noticed a very significant INCREASE
in the topic I am most interested in, Homebuilts.  I really like the
new split, I don't have to wade through 6 bazillion posts I have
little interest in to find the 3 that I do want to read.

Steve Harris
RV-4 under construction
steveha@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Heard an ELT - any info?
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:55:57 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

On Saturday, I flew some friends from Palo Alto to Marysville, which is
the closest civil field to Beale AFB (former home of the SR-71's).  We took
a cab to Beale and enjoyed a very nice air show.

On the way back, we saw a bumper sticker that said "have you checked 121.5
lately?"  My friends said "what the heck is that" and I said something
about "emergency frequency".

On the way back, the sort of quiet sat night flight where it gets so quiet
you think the radios are broken, I remembered the bumper sticker and started
fiddling with com #2.  121.5, com 2 - hdph, bump squelch to test, WHOOP,
WHOOP, WHOOP....  This got my passengers attention (mine too).

I checked and rechecked and decided it was real.  It was about 6:30pm so we
weren't in a legal test period.  It was faint - needed to open the squelch
to hear it - but it was clear and regular.

I reported it to Travis Approach, but they couldn't hear anything.  I thought
about the various descriptions of "what to do" I've read on the net, and
the only thing I could think of was the trick of putting the squelch right
on the edge so you can determine if it's getting stronger or weaker.
Unfortunately, with KX-170's, the squelch is fixed.  All I could do was
listen for a while, and we decided that it seemed to be getting fainter.  I
reported to Travis that I believed it was somewhat behind us.

At this time Travis told us that although they couldn't hear it on the
ground, and there was nobody else in the sector so it was as yet unconfirmed,
they called it in anyway, and sure enough, the bad news:  A plane had been
reported missing between Beale AFB and the Nut Tree.

This really bummed me out, because (1) I was directly over that route, 
meaning I could definitely have heard it, and (2) any plane going from
Beale to Nut Tree must only be an antique or warbird that had been on display.

A few minutes later someone else finally flew into the area, Travis quickly
asked them to listen, and we got confirmation that someone else could hear
it.

Put a sobering note on an otherwise wonderful day.

Questions:
  1.  If we had stayed in the area to help search, what could we have done?
      (I'm thinking electronic here - it was a dark night and I don't think
       a visual search would have been that useful...)
  2.  Has anyone heard of a plane having gone down Sat. night 11-14 in the
      Sacramento or Vacaville areas?  I haven't seen anything in the news.

-- Andy      stadler@apple.com