From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: SALMAN RUSHDIE
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:39:53 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Sep13.193556.11651@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>In article <BuIuvC.7Dt@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v5086u6r@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu (Naveed S Memon) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep13.023411.11312@sol.cs.wmich.edu>, sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes...
>> >In article <BuHrCt.Gnv@acsu.buffalo.edu>, memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
>> > 
>> >While we are on strange topics:
>> > 
>> > I went to guns & roses concert recently. It is a joint metallica, GNR, Faith No More
>> >concert. The crowd was tough, as expected, but nothing serious happened until 
>> >intermission between Metallica and GNR. During this period, the camera-person will
>> >focus the camera on a female and crowd will encourage her to bare her chest. If she
>> >would refuse, they would BO her. I was with my girl friend and she was very deeply
>> >offended by this, so was I. I looked around to see exactly, who was having fun with
>> >this. I saw that most females were looking very angry with all this going ons. 
>> >Obviously the camera-person kept the camera to only the front rows, where all the
>> >groupies are, and they were sure of some cooperation. 
>> > 
>> >If females were offended, why didnt they say anything ? All me and my girlfriend did
>> >was not to participate in the process, i.e; look away. But that is silent protest.
>> > 
>> >This went on for some 15-20 minutes.
>> > 
>> >BTW, if some SCPians have been to New Orleans, during Madigras, similar things happen there.
>> >But in that case, females bare their chests, if you throw them beads. Most of the females
>> >appear to be from middle class families and willingly participate in the process. Although
>> >some males also bare themselves there. That is a wild place.
>> > 
>> >I went with some university professors and these (usually very respectable) folks were
>> >throwing beads to females and urging them on. It is interesting ti see people with
>> >their guard down.
>> > 
>> >Just thought that I spice up the SCP, with bare-chest female stories.
>> > 
>> >BTW, I have no objection to bare-chested females (I support equal rights for males
>> >and females for clothing restrictions), but I do object to females bare-chested
>> >under crowd pressure. In addition, no male was asked to bare his genitals/chest
>> >or anything in that concert. If for equality they asked both females and males,
>> >then perhaps it would be okay (logically speaking). Although I am kind a conservative
>> >person and prefer that people keep private things to themselves.
>> > 
>> > 
>> >The older and in-a-stable-relationship Naveed
>> > 
>> >PS: As far as the concert goes, Metallica was pretty bad, GNR was good, two thumbs up.
>> > November Rain was played for a long time, with lots of improv, etc. Thay played all
>> > their good songs.
>> 
>> Naveed Bhai, you went to a Guns N Roses concert and you were actually expecting
>> social "correctness"? :)  Actually I have hated this group eversince I read the
>> following lyrics in their debut album, btw I have gone through these lines 
>> before on s.c.p, and alt.rocknroll, they lines were
>> 
>> "you faggots and foreigners, you come to this country and spread the f'ing
>> disease?".  These lines appeared in the Rollong Stones in 87 when GnR hit the
>> 13 year old ninja-turtles for the first time. Axl Rose at that time defended
>> his sentiments towards "Pakis and Iranians working at 7-11s", these days I have
>> heard that he says that he was too young at the time. Earlier this year, the
>> ex-homophobe headlined the Freddy Mercury tribute/charity concert at Wembley.
>> For me, political correctness of a band is important although a dear friend,
>> who read the Axl interview after I mailed it to him, asked me to listen to 
>> the music and stop thinking too much, but I always wonder if you can separate
>> the artist from his ideas. If you want to check out the GnR song in question, it
>> is called "One in a million". Actually GnR fans[the whites mainly, have yet to
>> see a black man wearing a GnR Tshirt] give me the creeps :) but ofcourse I 
>> cannot picture you with a tattoed serpent on your chubby arm saying VLSI sucks!
>> :)
>> 
>> Actually I agree about nudity. A few girls from Rochester and Buffalo protested
>> these anti-nudity laws at the 4th of July holiday, they claimed that it was their
>> right to go bare chested if the men did so too. So they stood at the
>> Peace Bridge[that connects US-Canada] bare chested as a protest. A PSA picnic
>> was immediately rescheduled to the 4th. :)
>> 
>> 
>> The younger and about-to-get-into-a-stable-relationship Naveed
>
>I reason I went to GnR concernt was to experience the Headbanger type concert. I wanted
>to see that side of humans. I got the experience no doubt. 

Dont know about you but I am too old/tired to appreciate headbanging, ok 
sometimes the operatic rock is ok but maybe GnR left a bad taste in my 
mouth and I never looked back at white trash of GnR/Motley Crew/Lets-grow-
long-hair-and-tattoe-our-butts-and-sing-a-little-n-get-laid-a-little. Just
getting old to experience anything new. 

>
>Regarding Axl's remarks about foriegners etc, I would say that in the concert
>he was very well behaved. He did a very good job. 
>I believes his latest albums do not contain any socially incorrect material. 

It is the sign of the times. Axl knows that it is not the reagon era of
hate-mongering. These are the days when teenagers are aware of aids, the
consequences of an alternate life-style, and if axl did anything remotely
close to his homophobic racist past, he will be facing the media. Every 
big band eventually sells out to MTV.

>Maybe he needs a second chance. After all, some of us also made pretty
>drastic statements about non-pakistanis, non-muslims, etc, in our earlier years. 
>
>I have heard "one in a million", and do agree with you that we cannot separate
>music from the artist. The artist must bear all responsibility for all his/her
>music.  
>
>You use of word 'hate` for GnR is too strong for me. I would simply say that 
>I have been cautiously optimistic that Axl will grow-up. I actually do not
>to hate anyone, if possible.
>

>any opinions ?
>
>Actually, watching european movies, I have noticed that sometimes they show
>full nudity for men also, without making a big deal about it. I remember in
>'room with a view', there was a scene like that. 
>
Excellent movie. Actually the scene you are refering to is quite funny.

>Regarding nudity in Pakistan, once I went to visit my brother in Sargodha Air Force
>base. That day, they had arranged for all the families to see a family-type movie.
>I also went along, not knowing the evil plan of the cadets. Smewhere in the
>middle of the movie, the 'tota's' started. (for less street-wise folks, a tota is
>excerpt from a X-rated movie). It turned out that cadets had planned to embarras
>
>The older and supporter-of-equality-in-bare-chest-laws Naveed
>
>PS: It may not be bad idea to get a t-shirt saying
>
>              VLSI SUCKS
>
>      the blood of those who work on it.*
>
>* Ofcourse this is very small letters.

How about CS sucks, Engineering swallows :) 

The younger and believer-in-the-impossibility-of-seeing-bare-chests-in-
Pakistan-in-public Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan