HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tcw@kepler.unh.edu (The Meathead)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: "Farting", "fat" sound - how to get it?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 23:43:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu
Keywords: Chris Squire is god

In article <Dec.10.22.51.17.1992.10330@gandalf.rutgers.edu> rgonzal@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Ralph Gonzalez) writes:
>
>I'm trying to figure out whether I need a new guitar (I've got an
>aluminum-neck fretless Kramer) or some kind of effects to get this
>sound: a very punchy, "fat" sound, kind of like a tuba. I've heard it
>on several recordings - for example Lou Reed's "New Sensations"
>(Fernando Saunders on bass). I'm pretty sure you need a fretless for
>this sound.

   I'm not sure how to get the sound you're talking about, but if I understand
you right, a good example of this sound is Chris Squire's sound in the 2nd
movement of Yes' Close to the Edge (damn, I can't remember the name of it).
You may not have heard this, but he gets this totally enormous, wide, tuba-
like sound that just shakes the walls apart. He uses several different bass
sounds over the course of the tune, but if you listen to it, you'll know the
parts I'm talking about. The bass he used is a Rickenbacker 4001 (fretted),
and absolutely no fret noise, picking noise, or any other extraneous sounds
are audible. It's spooky-- all you hear is a big fat note. In the last movement
he actually uses this sound again and does these great slides up the neck and
you'd swear he was playing a fretless, except that it doesn't even really sound
like a bass guitar. I realize I've just devoted an entire paragraph to
describing this sound, but it's just the most incredible thing I've ever heard.
Anyone else know what I'm talking about?
 
-- 
|    Tim Webb               |    cold summer listening                      |
|    tcw@kepler.unh.edu     |      hot color melting the anger to stone     |
From: cwalker@canopus.cs.bucknell.edu (carleton walker `93)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: >pointers for singing & playing
Date: 14 Dec 1992 03:50:30 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: canopus.cs.bucknell.edu

In article <93120002@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> garyr@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Gary Rosen) writes:
>>(Jeff Ramin) /  7:58 am  Dec  8, 1992 /
>>For those of you who will write back saying "practice playing until it's
>>second nature and then sing on top of it", I've already heard that one, and
>>I'm trying it.  I'm looking for some additional help, if there is any.
>>Thanks.
>
>What you have to do in these cases (non-simple rhythms) is first make
>sure you have a precise part worked out for both your bass line and your
>voice.  This puts a crimp in any improvisation, but it's really hard to

	I sing and play the bass simultaneously. I like to learn how
to sing the song first, then add the bass line next. I'm a lot more
comfortable on bass than I am singing, so, once I have the vocal part
down, the bass line comes naturally.

	I never bring both the parts up together.

Carl Walker
--
Carl Walker				"Hectic days ahead of us,
Bucknell University			 Rotten ones behind,
Lewisburg, PA				 Keeping plastics in our pockets,
cwalker@canopus.cs.bucknell.edu		 Children never mind." - The G's H
From: rost@tecrus.dec.com (My name is Brian Rost)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: "Farting", "fat" sound - how to get it?
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:05:29 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


OK, let me get this straight, all you need for a farting sound is:

	1. Rick 4001 bass

	2. Gibson EB3 bass

	3. Peavey 4-12

	4. blown tubes

	5. AMP 420 amp head

	6. a pick instead of fingers

	7. fingers instead of a pick

	8. frets

	9. no frets

OK, got it!  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)

Oops, I forgot, I saw/heard Jack Bruce get that sound with a Spector and Trace
Elliot, so better add that to the list...

Might I suggest that Jack has had that sound for years but has used Fender Bass
VI, Gibson EB3, Dan Armstrong, Music Man, Spector, Aria, Warwick (some fretted,
some fretless)  basses through Marshalls, Trace, AMP, Stramp amps with various
cabs.  Also, Paul McCartney gets a tuba sound, but has used Hofner, Rick,
Fender, Wal, etc. and he uses a pick, where JB uses his fingers. Maybe it's
just in the way he plays, eh? 


					Brian Rost @tecrus.enet.dec.com

					508-568-6115

	****************************************************
	*						   *
	*  The above does not reflect the opinions of	   *
	*  my employer.					   *
	*						   *
	*  If music is outlawed, only outlaws will be      *	   
	*  musicians.					   *
	*						   *
	****************************************************
From: harling@miki.pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: "Farting", "fat" sound - how to get it?
Keywords: Chris Squire is god
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:32:19 GMT

In article <1gdtf4INNc9h@mozz.unh.edu> tcw@kepler.unh.edu (The Meathead) writes:
>   I'm not sure how to get the sound you're talking about, but if I understand
>you right, a good example of this sound is Chris Squire's sound in the 2nd
>movement of Yes' Close to the Edge (damn, I can't remember the name of it).

Rats, me neither!  Would somebody please put these in the right order
for me?!  I'll look at the album cover when I get home tonight.

I Get Up, I Get Down
Total Mass Retain	<-- I think that's it.  Appropriate for the sound, no?
The Preacher, the Teacher
The Apocalypse


>You may not have heard this, but he gets this totally enormous, wide, tuba-
>like sound that just shakes the walls apart....
>absolutely no fret noise, picking noise, or any other extraneous sounds
>are audible... I realize I've just devoted an entire paragraph to
>describing this sound, but it's just the most incredible thing I've ever heard.
>Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

I know *exactly* what you're talking about.  It almost sounds like he's
driving a small speaker cone at about double its power capacity, with
the bass range turned up on the tape.  The speaker clips a major
portion of the signal, and then it gets boosted again when it's
recorded.  At least, that's what I would try first...

BTW, does anyone know of a "Yes cover" group in the Boston area that's
looking for a bass player?  I can even do a little Steve Howe guitar
(Starship Trooper, Mood for a Day) if you ask nicely.  Just hoping...
:-)
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Kubicki Contacted!  Have info!
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:03:13 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: talon.meaddata.com

Since I can't post any tab or informed opinion to the net yet,
but I'd still like to repay all of you who responded to my
"tell me about your Kubicki's weaknesses" request, here's
a start:

You people who noticed that your basses were excessively
climate sensitive are NOT imagining things...  there was a
production run made by Fender where an error was made, and a
normally-applied "deep penetrating sealant" (oil based, I was
given to understand), wasn't applied to the necks.

Fender is aware of the problem, as is Kubicki, and they are
essentially waiting for the affected owners to call or make
a warranty claim, at which time they'll be taken care of.

The fix is relatively simple--stripping the neck of its old
finish, applying the deep-sealer, and refinishing.

Kubicki's number is 805 963-6703.  Ask to speak with Carla.

Regarding the "tough to re-string" complaint, that is also a
legitimate problem, but more one of training & technique than
engineering.  To solve it, they are working on an article to
Bass Player/Guitar Player magazine, where a detailed 
explanation of the do's and dont's will be made.  Copies of
that article (after it's published) will be included with
every bass sold thereafter.

Until then, if you have trouble, give them a call.  In fact,
they want the bass playing world to know that they ARE
easily accessible, and eager to help with any problems.

I certainly found this to be the case!  Having dealt with 
several of the big companies during my guitar playing days,
Kubicki is a real pleasure--I've called them twice, and got
five-star treatment each time.

Later,

George 

 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
From: richardp@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Richard R Prince)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: RE: FOR SALE  Fostex 2016 Mixer
Keywords: Sold
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:00:09 GMT
Distribution: usa


  The mixer has been sold.  Many thanks to all who called.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: wes@ian.stx.com (John S.)
Subject: Re: Laryngitis
Organization: STX, Lanham Maryland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:46:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.153626.29672@tigger.jvnc.net> steve@imix.Cyanamid.COM writes:
>
>Anyone out there suffered from laryngitis?  Any experiences to share about
>how to get over it?  Home remedies?  Vocal exercises?  How long does it 
>take to get over?  
>
>Thanks
>
>Steve :)
>

Our singer strained had laryngitis or strained her voice or something,
I don't know. It seemed to last forever. She'd be okay at the beginning
of a show but by the end her voice was starting to go. We couldn't turn
down the gigs, (too enticing) so we had to keep practicing (although at
a greatly reduced volume level w/ the PA cranked.) She also kept going
out to see bands, staying out late, drinking, smoking, not resting. She
would drink a glass of burbon before a show, to relax her throat. When
she finally went to a doctor who specializes in treating vocalists, he
told her the whiskey was probably the worst thing she could have done
(Hell, I could've told her that. But, she never asked me.) He also told
her she had to lay off all alcohol, caffeine, and cigarettes (among a
few other things I'm sure). She kept going out (she's the one who books
our band, so she's always out schmoozing and making contacts) but she
started writing notes instead of trying to yell over the band. I also
made a habit (which I kinda enjoyed) of saying to her every now and
then, "Shut up, Ruth." She seems to be an extrovert so it's hard for
her not to talk some. She also began taking those 'Halls Eucalyptus'
throat lozenges. Sometimes when you were talking to her, your eyes
would start to water. She was constantly eating those things. It seems
to be working. She's still not 100%, but hell, for her, 80% sounds
great.
   
                                                                             \
==============================================================================>
         ______                 ____________________                         /
           /  __   _  _  _  _  /__   _  _  ___  __   _  _  ___  __   __  
       ___/  /_/ _/--/ _/\_/  ___/ _/--/ _/_- _/-' _/--/ _/_- _/-<,_/__>

         wes@ian.stx.com     (John Shepherd)    Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: morrowjp@rtsg.mot.com (Jerry P Morrow)
Subject: Has anyone switched from keyboards to Guitar/Bass or Drums?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:27:43 GMT

Hi,

I have been playing keyboard for 6 years, and picked up a 
bit of acoustic guitar a year ago.  Now my goal is to play
bass as my main instrument, and some keyboard ocassionally.
My two synths just collect dust right now.  I recall a sax
player telling me keyboard (not piano) is a 'bogus' instrument,
now after having enjoyed playing guitar and bass in the last
couple years, I'd have to agree with him.  There seems to be
something about having a stringed intrument slung around my
neck, that I have much more tonal control over that is much
more appealing to me than pressing velocity sensitive keys
on a synth.  I feel much more a part of music now, rather than
something that is layered over it just to make it sound 'nice'.
Has anyone else had this experience??  I don't mean to start a
flame here, I'm just curious if a significant amount of musicians
have these same ideas.

Jerry Morrow
morrowjp@adobe.rtsg.mot.com
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Micing a grand piano
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:43:31 GMT
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
NNTP-Posting-Host: hptrane.fc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Chris Christensen (chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com) wrote:
: 
: I have heard of people micing the piano from under the sound board.

I may try that for a gig tonight.  I've found it is by far the easiest and most
natural sounding way to deal with an upright, where all sound is designed to
project through the soundboard anyhow.  You don't have any worry about
hammer/string noise, and one mic is actually enough to cover the whole range of
the instrument, since the soundboard "homogenizes" the sound to a large extent.
You will probably want to add some reverb when recording, though, as is almost
always the case with close-mic'ing.

I get perfectly good results with a relatively inexpensive condenser mic (Audio
Technica ATM31); even a Shure SM57 (dynamic) used in this way sounds better to
me than most attempts at mic'ing an upright inside.

With a grand, I imagine mic'ing under the soundboard would cause it to sound a
lot like an upright, in that you'll lose a lot of natural depth, brilliance,
and resonance by not taking the sound from the top.  But it does seem like it
would be an easy way to get a relatively warm tone; all too often, mic'ing
inside a grand makes it sound harsh and/or tinny.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers,rec.music.makers.percussion
From: briand@cray.com (Briand M. Morrison)
Subject: Drums For Sale
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: mn
Date: 12 Dec 92 14:32:20 CST

I am posting this for a friend...
Eight piece drum set for sale:

   Five piece Juggs kit plus
   3 piece roto toms mounted on stand plus
   40 inch Gibraltar rack mounting stand for
    mounting ride toms and crash cymbals plus
   2 Pearl boom stands plus
   1 Pearl ride cymbal stand plus
   1 16 inch zildjian crash cymbal
   1 16 Paiste crash cymbal plus
   1 20 inch Pearl ride cymbal plus
   1 pair Nuvader hi-hat cymbals plus
   1 Ludwig speed king pedal plus
   1 lamb skin cymbal bag plus
   1 heavy duty throne

Finished in deep red.
$500 cash.  Contact:

   Matt (612) 698-6318.
   St. Paul, MN
From: chelf@lunatix.uucp (Chad Helfenberger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: MIDI software advice
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:32:43 GMT
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121

I've been asked to find some information on MIDI software for a friend.  
What he needs info. on is a couple of programs (specifically), MIDI-Man PC, 
and PowerEdit.  Are these commercial programs?  Also, any comments on their 
usability, or anything else.

Also, if anyone knows any ftpmail sites where I can obtain some music 
software (sequencers, anything at all), I'd appreciate a friendly push in 
the right direction.  Thanks much!

-- 
Chad Helfenberger
(chelf@lunatix.uucp) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: boarjas@elof.iit.edu (Jason Boardman)
Subject: **QUICK SINEAD SURVEY PLEASE ANSWER**
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 17:08:31 GMT


*****  SIMPLE SURVEY -- PLEASE READ *****

I have seen much talk about Sinead on the net lately, 
and was wondering what the general opinion of Sinead
was.  Please take the 20 seconds it takes to reply to
this question and answer it.  (A simple Y or N will do).
Please use your newsreader's reply option or regular
email to submit votes -- do not post your answer.

Question:
Do you still support (or have a general good opinon of)
Sinead O'Connor?

If you wish to send detailed replies as to why or why not,
please do, but they are not required.  Thanks in advance!

Jason Boardman
boarjas@elof.iit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: morrowjp@rtsg.mot.com (Jerry P Morrow)
Subject: Bassist/Keyboardist/Backing Vocalist Available
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: chi
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:29:30 GMT

Hi!

the subject says it all, well not really ...

What I'm looking for: - part-time band, gig about 2 to 3 times
	              a month 
		      - rock/funk/blues styles, but mainly guitar
			based: Eric Johnson, SRV, Joe Satriani
		        also song oriented music, not just guitar
			endless guitar solos , for example, Eric
			Johnson is a great songwriter and guitar
			player
                     - I've been avoiding 'classic rock' lately,
		       FM101 and XRT are alot more interesting to
                       me
			- ideal line-up would be drummer, lead
			guitarist, second guitarist who can really sing
                        and play some keyboard,
			and me 
			- some of my favorite chicago bands are
			New Ducan Imperials, Funkhouse, Animation,
			Ed Zeppelin, Arra
                       - certainly don't plan on being a rock star,
			my day job definitely comes first

my experience:		- I have been playing keys since the middle
			of high school, playing in rock and hard
			rock bands, the last band I was in was a 
		 	9 piece band with horn section (too many 
			people to have show up at practice at the
			same time) that was fun, but a pain
			- I picked up acoustic guitar about 2 1/2
			years ago and became pretty good for
			someone with no formal lessons
			- I decided to switch to bass after I 
			learned most of music I'm into doesn't require
			a lot of keys, and I enjoy playing a stringed
			instrument much more than something with 
			plastic keys
			- I have been playing bass for a few months now,
			and my bass teacher says I sound like I I`ve
			been playing for 1 to 2 years, since guitar and
			bass are virtually the same

my equipment:		- Custom 5-string (low B) bass, SWR bass amp
			- Roland U-20 synth, Korg DW-6000 synth 
			- good PA: 3-way JBL cabinets, CROWN mt1200 power amp,
			  Alesis comp, dbx EQ, 2 shure mics, I use the 4-ch
			  mixer in my TOA keyboard amp as a mixer right now
			- and lots of other junk
k   well call me at (708) 991-6228 if you are REALLY REALLY interested,
otherwise, just email me at

morrowjp@adobe.rtsg.mot.com

see ya, 
Jerry
    mastu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: friedman@dracula.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark "Crimson" Friedman)
Subject: Re: Has anyone switched from keyboards to Guitar/Bass or Drums?
Organization: NAIVE - New And Improved Virtual Environment
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:25:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.202743.155@rtsg.mot.com> morrowjp@rtsg.mot.com (Jerry P Morrow) writes:
]I recall a sax player telling me keyboard (not piano) is a 'bogus'
]instrument, now after having enjoyed playing guitar and bass in the
]last couple years, I'd have to agree with him.

ACK!  Them's *fightin'* words!

Saxes are simply used to lead parts and tend to get bored with
anything else.  Said sax player is most likely judging the parts being
played rather than the instrument itself.

]There seems to be something about having a stringed intrument slung
]around my neck,

You could always get a strap-on keyboard if ya wanna dance around.

]that I have much more tonal control over that is much more appealing
]to me than pressing velocity sensitive keys on a synth.

Tonal control?  I'd say the synths have *excellent* tonal control!

In addition to velocity sensitivity there's: release velocity
sensitivity, pressure sensitivity (aftertouch), pitch benders
modulation wheels/sticks, real-time patch editing, crossfading,
breath controllers, portamento, etc...

On top of this, you can add signal processing like dynamic filters and
even wah pedals and so on...

So if you have the right stuff, you can have exact tonal control of a
keyboard.  Hell, my 4-year old out dated Kawai K1 (my only keyboard)
offers me precise control of everything I need.  I'm intimately
familiar with it and would pit it against a sax any day!  :-)

]I feel much more a part of music now, rather than something that is
]layered over it just to make it sound 'nice'.

Hmmm, once again it seems the part is making demands on the
instrument, rather than the other way around.  Instead of playing
"nice" parts, why not write something that *you* want to play?

]Has anyone else had this experience??

The order that I learned my instruments was: trombone, piano, guitar,
bass, and drums.  So, yeah, I've experienced the shift.

However, it wasn't out of boredom of the keyboard: I just wanted to
expand my vocabulary.  Yeah, guitar has a different feel than the
keyboard, but I refuse to judge one as better than the other, and I
doubt that I could give one up if told "you can only play this or
this".

Then again, I play all original compositions, so judging an instrument
by its part really doesn't apply to me: I write what I feel like
playing.  But I could imagine how someone in a cover band would feel:
yeah, pop keyboard parts *do* suck!  I wouldn't be suprised if this
turns off a lot of musicians to the instrument if that's all they
play.

'course, I started out by learning jazz piano... ;-)

							- Mark

-- 
Mark "Klone Crimson" Friedman is friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu .................
"There is nothing former  "Beat poets,    "Bite me,   "My jacket! I killed
 about King Crimson."      not children."  it's fun!"  Kennedy in this jacket!"
 - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90   - anonymous     - MST3K     - Ron Post
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
From: rnakkula@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robin J Nakkula)
Subject: Re: Mandolin info requested on instrument style and price negotiating
Keywords: mandolin
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:49:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.025854.1488@news2.cis.umn.edu> anda@ahpcrc.umn.edu (Andrew A. Anda) writes:
>
>My second question has to do with the purchase itself.  How firm are the "list"
>prices of instruments on instrument shop walls?
>If negotiable, what is a reasonable discount for new and similarly for used?
>How about for the big "catalogue" stores such as Elderly Instruments in East
>Lansing, MI, or Mandolin Bros. in NYC?
>


I've always considered Elderly's prices to be firm.  If what you want is
beyond your budget, then either wait for something cheaper to come on sale,
or see if they put it on Dutch Auction.  $5 will buy you a subscription to
their Used Instrument price list for approximately a year.

As to your first question, I don't think I can help you; I'm still on my
first mandolin, which I purchased from Elderly.  (My learning curve got
drastically messed with when the mando was stolen and hung for nearly a year
in a local pawnshop window.)  All I know is that my ultimate wish mando is
a new Martin A style; however, Martin only makes those to order these days,
and the price last time I looked was $1000. (Yup, it's gonna take a while.)

@@@---Robin Nakkula