HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
Subject: Re: MIME
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 1993 17:47:40 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dave.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b32

In article <5227@ceylon.gte.com>, ljd2@roger.gte.com (Leonard D'Alotto) 
writes:
> I have been asked to learn about, and become conversant about, 
> something called MIME(?).  I haven't a clue as to what it is, but it is 
> supposedly some type of multimedia messaging standard, system, ow 
> whatever.  It fell on me as I happen to know a little about X.400.  If 
> anyone can point me in the right direction for gaining knowledge on 
> this subject, it would be appreciated. 

MIME is an extension to SMTP that allows for many of the features that mac 
X.400 such a nifty messaging protocol. There are two RFCs that provide a bulk 
of the information

1344  Implications of MIME for Internet Mail Gateways
1341  MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Mechanisms for Specifying

and there are a number of IETF drafts in the works that can be retrieved via 
FTP from nic.dnn.mil.

Dave



----------------------------------
Dave Saunders <dave@intercon.com>
InterCon Systems Corporation
"Standards-based networking for a standards-based world"
When your IQ rises to 28, sell. --Professor Irwin Corey to a heckler
From: epg@gateway.mitre.org ("Ella P. Gardner")
Subject: Re: The "I" field
Full-Name: Ella P. Gardner
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:17:16 GMT

The 1992 edition of the Directory standard has an initials attribute type.
The editor's draft of part 6 from the October 1991 Orlando meeting says:

The Initials attribute type contains the initials of some or all of an
individual's names, but not the surname(s),
An attribute value for Initials is a string, e.g. "D" or "D." or "J.P."

Ella Gardner
MITRE
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
From: hta@boheme.er.sintef.no (Harald Tveit Alvestrand)
Subject: Re: Asynchronous Protocol Specification Aliance - any one heard of it?
Reply-To: harald.alvestrand@delab.sintef.no
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Norway
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 20:23:15 GMT

My best contact point on the APS Alliance is

Frode Hernes <Frode.Hernes@maxware.noprmd.telemax.no>
C=no;ADMD=telemax;O=maxware;S=hernes;G=frode

He seems to be the one keeping contact lists.
-- 
                   Harald Tveit Alvestrand
Harald.Alvestrand@delab.sintef.no
C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=sintef;OU=delab;S=alvestrand;G=harald
+47 7 59 70 94
From: hta@boheme.er.sintef.no (Harald Tveit Alvestrand)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
Subject: Re: Thanks and the "I" field
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:14:16 GMT
Reply-To: harald.alvestrand@delab.sintef.no
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Norway

The recommendation to include the first letter of the G when the G is used
is silly. Ignore it.
-- 
                   Harald Tveit Alvestrand
Harald.Alvestrand@delab.sintef.no
C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=sintef;OU=delab;S=alvestrand;G=harald
+47 7 59 70 94
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
From: acus02@email.mot.com (David McAnally)
Subject: Re: MIME
Reply-To: acus02@email.mot.com (David McAnally)
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:05:59 GMT

In article <5227@ceylon.gte.com> ljd2@roger.gte.com (Leonard D'Alotto) writes:
> I have been asked to learn about, and become conversant about, something
> called MIME(?).  I haven't a clue as to what it is, but it is supposedly
> some type of multimedia messaging standard, system, ow whatever.  It
> fell on me as I happen to know a little about X.400.  If anyone can
> point me in the right direction for gaining knowledge on this subject,
> it would be appreciated.
> 
> Len D'Alotto
> GTE Laboratories
> Waltham, MA  USA
> ljd2@gte.com

Obtain Internet RFC documents RFC1341 MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail 
Extensions).  Also refer to RFC1327 Mapping between x.400 (1988) / ISO 
100021 and RFC822, and RFC822.

Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
an EMAIL message to "rfc-info@ISI.EDU" with the message body 
"help: ways_to_get_rfcs".  For example:

	To: rfc-info@ISI.EDU
	Subject: getting rfcs

	help: ways_to_get_rfcs



--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David McAnally                     |Internet: acus02@email.mot.com      |
| Motorola Corp. Computer Services   |    Next: acus02@ems13.corp.mot.com |
| CS / Application Engineering       | IINMAIL: USMOTWTT                  |
| M/D AZ49 R3148                     | AT&T Easylink ELN: 62867057        |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Geir.Thorud@forskning.teledir.no (Geir Ivar Thorud)
Subject: MATCHES FOR EQUALITY on OR-names
X400-Originator: Geir.Thorud@forskning.teledir.no
Content-Identifier: 1674
X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:;
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
X400-Received: by mta mhs-relay.cs.wisc.edu in /PRMD=XNREN/ADMD= /C=US/;
               Relayed; Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:06:55 +0000
X400-Received: by /PRMD=tele/ADMD=telemax/C=no/; Relayed;
               Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:05:32 +0000
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Conversion: Prohibited
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:07:45 GMT
X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=tele/ADMD=telemax/C=no/;930105120532]

Jacob,

You should have a look at the PDAM on Message Store extensions
being balloted now. SC18 N2125, section 12.

All the things you ask for are there, except matching where all
the attributes are not needed for unique identification. I don't
se how such a matching mechanism should work in practice.

Geir Thorud
Norwegian Telecom
From: mws@sitman.ssw.com (Mark Sitler)
Subject: O/R address Equivalence
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:10:17 GMT


Is there anyone that has any experience with O/R Address attribute
list equivalence.  In particular I am referring to rule "c" of section
18.4 "Attribute list equivalence" of recomendation X.402.

It states:

  "Where the value of a standard attribute may be a printable string, an
   equivalent teletex string, or both, the choice between the three
   possibilities shall be considered insignificant."

This rule seems very ambigous and needs further qualification.  Let
me give an example.

I am setting up a names directory with the following
two entries.


                  User 1			User 2

 Attribute    Printable	Teletex         Printable Teletex
 ---------    --------- --------        --------- --------
  Country     US	   		US   			C
  ADMD 	      ANYADMD			ANYADMD
  Surname     Sitlere	Sitlere'	Sitlere	  Sitlere`

	Note:
		Sitlere' e-acute
		Sitlere` e-grave

Are these equivalent O/R addresses?  According to rule "c"
they are, and they are not.  The order in which you
compare attributes is significant.

Compare the printable and they are equivalent.
Compare the Teletex and they are not.
Compare the Printable and Teletex and they are not.

Here is another example:

I have two users in a directory.

 Attribute    Printable	Teletex         Printable Teletex
 ---------    --------- --------        --------- --------
  Country     US	   		US
  ADMD 	      ANYADMD			ANYADMD
  Surname     Sitler				  Sitler

Are these equivalent?  It depends upon how you interpret
rule "c".

Is there any documentation that gives a better explanation
of how 1988 O/R Addresses should be handled?  Can anyone
shed some light on this.

Thanks,
   Mark

mws@sitman.ssw.com
Mark Sitler
Soft-Switch Inc.
640 Lee Rd.
Wayne, Pa



Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.dev-environ
From: r0506028@solar.csie.ntu.edu.tw (Ping-fang Chen)
Subject: ISODE installation problem.
Organization: Computer Systems and Engineering Lab, NTU, Taiwan
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:32:28 GMT

Hi,
       I am now trying to install ISODE-7.0 on my Sun SPARC machine,
I think I must meet some problems in configuring my DSA, If anyone
can give me some suggestions, I'll be very  appreciated about that.
Thanks in advance.

       I have follow the ISODE-GEN(8) to make, and have $(ETCDIR)isotailor file
       to have these 2 lines:
       		ns_enable: on
       		ns_address:Internet=140.112.28.164+17006
       (my IP addr is 140.112.28.164)

       when I type "dish -c toucan"( as the example in manual P142), it shows
       
       Welcome to Dish (DIrectory SHell)
       Dish -> list "@c=GB@o=University College London@ou=Computer Science"
       Reference to another DSA ('Giant Armadillo, GB') for 'Computer Science, 
       University College London, GB'...
       *** Service error : Unable to contact DSA ***
        
       and, when I type dish -c "Giant Tortoise", it shows
       Welcome to Dish (DIrectory SHell)
       *** Security error : Inappropriate authentication ***
        
	I have invoke iaed, ros.quipu, snmpd, smux.unix, dased in
/etc/rc.local, in booting time, I see the warning message

	smux-init:SystemError [join-tcp-server failed: Connection refuse]
	...
	"_ipforwarding" not in /vmunix (warning)
	 

===========================================================================
Ping-fang Chen @ Computer Systems and Engineering Lab.
		 Dept of Computer Science and Information Engineering.
		 National Taiwan University.
		 Taiwan, ROC.
		 
Email address: r0506028@solar.csie.ntu.edu.tw 
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.dev-environ
From: arsikere@IASTATE.EDU (Amarnath R Arsikere)
Subject: implementing OSI AL protocol
Keywords: MMS
Reply-To: arsikere@IASTATE.EDU (Amarnath R Arsikere)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:43:28 GMT

Hi Net-workers,

I plan to implement a part of MMS protocol (OSI AL protocol),
expanded as Manufacturing Message Specification.  I have the original
protocol definition and am learning the ASN.1 syntax.

Can someone suggest me - how to go about implementing an OSI AL protocol.
I mean are there any procedures, software tools, example implementations,
related books which can aid a beginner.  I am not using an ISODEnvironment.

Thanx in advance
Amarnath
 


Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: jguzman@cipres.cec.uchile.cl (GUZMAN CASSANELLO JOSE MIGUEL)
Subject: EAN barcoding?
Originator: jguzman@araucaria
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:21:02 GMT
Organization: Centro de Computacion (CEC), Universidad de Chile


  I need obtain information about the EAN (European Article
  Nmberic) Barcoding System...
  I couldn't found something related to this topic! 
 Is the EAN system a ISO standar?
 Is similar to another Barcoding system?

All the information couldbe usefull!

Thanks...

Jose Miguel Guzman C.
Universidad de Chile
South America
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: davy@ecn.purdue.edu (Dave Curry)
Subject: ISODE Consortium Release 1?
Reply-To: davy@ecn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:35:11 GMT

Has anyone heard anything about ISODE Consortium Release 1, which was
supposed to be made available in December 1992?

I haven't seen anything, and all my attempts to contact the ISODE Consortium
via electronic mail (to "isode@isode.com" as well as to individuals there)
and via telephone (to the U.S. number) have gone unanswered.

Dave Curry
Purdue University
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: jvdbroec@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (just.a.vanden.broecke)
Subject: Re: TCP/IP has SLIP, OSI has ???
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:23:05 GMT

From article <1993Jan5.211153.122@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil>, by roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil:
> 
> 	If there is a system running OSI in one location and another
> 	system also running OSI in another location, is it possible
> 	to do transfer files via FTAM (or send mail via X.400) using
> 	something other than X.25 or a LAN ?
> 
> 	In other words is there something for making temporary connections
> 	over phone lines for OSI much like SLIP does for TCP/IP (and
> 	async DECNET does for DECNET) ?
ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) is planning
a standard for file transfer over ISDN. FTAM is being considered as
one of two possible protocols (the other one is a Videotex standard).
ETSI Technical report DTR/TE-01019 "File Transfer over the ISDN" provides 
an overview and makes recommendations for further work, i.e. it is not a 
standard. Since there is a high demand for file transfer over ISDN
within Europe, the actual standard can be expected in the near future.
Exactly how near is not known to me.

-- Just van den Broecke - AT&T NS NL - The Netherlands
   jvdbroec@ihlpw.ih.att.com




Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: "David Herron" <david@twg.com>
Subject: Re: TCP/IP has SLIP, OSI has ???
Sensitivity: Personal
Encoding:  17 TEXT , 4 TEXT 
Conversion: Prohibited
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Inc., Palo Alto, CA
Conversion-With-Loss: Prohibited
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:29:45 GMT


> If you prefer CLNP, check the latest PPP version. It supports OSI in addition
> to TCP/IP.

I thought the PPP-OSI had only progressed to some sort of draft status.
In any case, to have the protocol defined doesn't mean it'd be widely
implemented (unfortunately).

The fact that the APS Alliance (or so I understand) voted down a PPP
based proposal at their meeting is alarming.  It would be synchronistically
groovy if the ISO crowd would recognize the wide availablility of PPP
and `allow' for TP0..4 to traverse PPP-OSI paths.  Since PPP supports
multiple protocols this would let IP, DECnet, AppleTalk, Novell IPX and OSI
packets interoperate on the same telephone wire just as they do on the
same ethernet wire right now.

Sigh.. why does NIH have to rear its ugly head so often???

<- David Herron <david@twg.com> (work) <david@davids.mmdf.com> (home)
<-
<- "As near as I can tell, only selected dinosaur systems that lurk mainly inside
<- the US DoD won't be MIME-capable soon." - Ran Atkinson <atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: arsikere@IASTATE.EDU (Amarnath R Arsikere)
Subject: Appln lyr protocol implementation
Reply-To: arsikere@IASTATE.EDU (Amarnath R Arsikere)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:32:26 GMT

Hello comp.protocols.iso'ers

I plan to implement a part of MMS(OSI AL protocol).  I have
the formal protocol of MMS as defined by the standards comm.,
and am learning ASN.1 syntax.

How do we go about implementing an OSI application. I mean
Are there any examples, procedures, software tools or relating
books which can help me in this regard. ( The formal protocol
definition seems to be too voluminous and verbose.  How do I
digest so much information and proceed with a implementation ?)

Any pointers in this regard are welcome

Thanx
Amarnath

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: alvarado@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (victor.m.alvarado)
Subject: Re: multicast address in 8473 packet (summary of responses)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:38:47 GMT

 
 
Here is my original query:
> Does anyone know where I can find information about using
> a multicast address in an 8473 data packet? I also need the
> definition of the "multicast Group address". Is this a
> recent development? I couldn't find it in my copies of
> 8348 AD1 and AD2, although they might be out of date.
 
Here are the responses. Thanks to those who responded.
 
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:34:37 CST
> Subject: Re: multicast address in 8473 data packet
> 
> This is recent work, and just being drafted.  There is no international
> standard.  In fact, the US is expecting to prepare a contribution to the
> next SC6 Workign Groups meeting covering the topic of multicast addressing
> for 8473.  We have related text for 8348, 8473 itself, and ES-IS.
> None of this is yet in the repository, although it should be soon.
> It will be discussed at our meeting January 5-7  (our being X3S3.3).
> 
> Joel M. Halpern			jmh@network.com
> Network Systems Corporation
 
 
 
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 10:36:27 WET
> Subject: Re: multicast address in 8473 data packet
> 
> You probably want the following:
> 
> ISO 8348/PDAM5  Amendment 5: Group Network Addressing (ballot closes 92-12-21)
> ISO 8348/PDAM6  Amendment 6: Multicast Extensions (working draft)
> ISO 8473/PDAM7  Amendment 7: Multicast Extensions (new project ballot closes 92-12-02)
> 
> But I don't know if they are available anywhere. They seem to be very much
> working drafts.
> 
> David
> 
> -- 
> David Fraser, Spider Software,        |       e-mail: davidf@spider.co.uk 
> Edinburgh EH6 5NG, Scotland.       /\oo/\ "Life is uncertain, eat dessert first"


Victor Alvarado
AT&T Bell Laboratories
vma@mvuts.att.com
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: hcb@world.std.com (Howard C Berkowitz)
Subject: Re: Formal Specifications of ISO Protocols
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:57:16 GMT

Remember that the formal language specifications of such protocolos as
Transport are advisory.  The formal specification remains the natural
language document, with all its ambiguities.

A compromise position may be to look at the abstract test suites,
written in TTCN, as a "more formal" specification which actually
will be used.  I recognize TTCN is an informal language and a cumbersome
one, but it does have somewhat more formalism than an English-language
specificatin.
From: roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
Subject: TCP/IP has SLIP, OSI has ???
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:11:53 EST
Organization: United States Coast Guard


	If there is a system running OSI in one location and another
	system also running OSI in another location, is it possible
	to do transfer files via FTAM (or send mail via X.400) using
	something other than X.25 or a LAN ?

	In other words is there something for making temporary connections
	over phone lines for OSI much like SLIP does for TCP/IP (and
	async DECNET does for DECNET) ?

	I understand that whatever connection is set up, it will be very
	slow in comparison to X.25 or LAN.

	Thanks for any answers.

	- Bert Roseberry
	  roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil
From: scoggin@delmarva.com (John K. Scoggin, Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
Subject: Re: Estelle Verification Tool?
Date: 1 Jan 1993 20:40:07 GMT
Organization: Delmarva Power & Light Company
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scoggin@delmarva.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: mercury.delmarva.com

In article 2647@latcs1.lat.oz.au, jira@elc1.lat.oz.au (Ajin Jirachiefpattana) writes:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> Besides ESTIM (Estelle SimulaTor Based on an Interpretative Machine) prototyped
> by LAAS within the framework of SEDOS project, I just wonder if there is any
> Estelle verification tool available via anonymous ftp. Any related information
> would be greatly appreciated. 
> 

I would look into the pub/osikit directory on osi.ncsl.nist.gov - this is an anonymous FTP server at the National Institute for Science & Technology.  There is also some Estelle material in pub/grope on louie.udel.edu.

Hope this helps.  If not, you might contact Professor Paul D. Amer (amer@cis.udel.edu) - he is very active in this area.

	- John
---
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+    
|  John K. Scoggin, Jr.			Email: scoggin@delmarva.com   |
|  Supervisor, Network Operations       Phone: (302) 451-5200         |
|  Delmarva Power & Light Company       Fax:   (302) 451-5321         |
|  500 N. Wakefield Drive               NOC:   (800) 388-7076         |
|  Newark, DE 19714-6066		                              |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
From: kremer@cs.utwente.nl (Harro Kremer)
Subject: Re: Formal Specifications of ISO Protocols
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:05:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.064433.14965@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk>, mklai@ie.cuhk.hk (Edmund M
K Lai) writes:
|> I am looking for ISO protocols of any layer that has already been formally
|> specified in one of the major formal specification languages such as
|> LOTOS and ESTELLE.  So far I have only been able to locate simple data
|> link layer protocols with formal specifications.
|> 

Both Transport and Session Standards have been specified in LOTOS:

@TechReport{ISO10023,
  Author="ISO",
  Title="Information Processing Systems --- Open Systems Interconnection ---
        Formal Description of {ISO} 8072 in {LOTOS}",
  Type=TR, Number=10023,
  Institution="ISO/IEC, Geneva", Month=jul, Year=1992}

@TechReport{ISO10024,
  Author="ISO",
  Title="Information Processing Systems --- Open Systems Interconnection ---
        Formal Description of {ISO} 8073 (Classes 0,1,2,3) in {LOTOS}",
  Type=TR, Number=10024,
  Institution="ISO/IEC, Geneva", Month=jul, Year=1992}


@TechReport{ISO9572,
  Author="ISO/IEC",
  Title="Information technology - Open Systems Interconnection -
        {LOTOS} description of the session protocol",
  Type=TR, Number=9572,
  Institution="ISO/IEC, Geneva", Year=1989 }

@TechReport{ISO9571,
  Author="ISO/IEC",
  Title="Information technology - Open Systems Interconnection -
        {LOTOS} description of the session service",
  Type=TR, Number=9571,
  Institution="ISO/IEC, Geneva", Year=1989 }


-- 
    ___             Harro Kremer                    <kremer@cs.utwente.nl>
 __/   \__________
|  \___/          | Univ. of Twente,   Dept. Computer Science,  TIOS-group
|___     __   ___ | P.O. Box 217,   NL-7500 AE  Enschede,  The Netherlands
| |  |  /  \ (__  |                 tel: +31 53 89 3703 fax: +31 53 333815
| |  |  \__/ ___) | 
|                 | Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose.
|_________________|                  - Kris Kristofferson & Janis Joplin -
From: unrza3@cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
Subject: Re: TCP/IP has SLIP, OSI has ???
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:57:01 +0100
Organization: Regionales Rechenzentrum Erlangen
Reply-To: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de

"David Herron" <david@twg.com> writes:

>> If you prefer CLNP, check the latest PPP version. It supports OSI in addition
>> to TCP/IP.

>I thought the PPP-OSI had only progressed to some sort of draft status.

Have you already seen the following RFC?

1377  PPP OSI Network Layer Control Protocol (OSINLCP). Katz, D.  1992 
      November; 10 p. (Format: TXT=22109 bytes)

Markus

-- 
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -=-=- University of Erlangen, Germany
Internet: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  |  X.500 entry available
--- Wer, wie, was? Wieso, weshalb, warum? Wer nichts fragt bleibt dumm. ---
From: davidf@spider.co.uk (David Fraser)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso
Subject: Re: NetBIOS/SMB on top of CNLP/TP4
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:05:50 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <iymywB1w164w@digilog.UUCP> joet@digilog.UUCP (Joe Torjman) writes:
>i need protocol specifications for CNLP/TP4 on how it carries
>Microsoft's NetBios.  i believe this is how AT&T implements
>LAN Manager on top of ISO protocols.
>thanks.    Joe Torjman.

I believe this is specified in TOP (Technical Office Protocol).
Sorry I can't give references. Maybe someone else can help there.

David

-- 
David Fraser, Spider Software,        |       e-mail: davidf@spider.co.uk 
Spider Park, Stanwell Street,         |       abuse:  +44 31 555 5166 ext 4346
Edinburgh EH6 5NG, Scotland.       /\oo/\ "Life is uncertain, eat dessert first"
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso