From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Monitored by islam (repost)
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:22:31 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Dec13.111626.1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> phs179b@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Dien Rice) writes:
>In article <jon.taylor.58.723926261@uuserv.cc.utah.edu>, jon.taylor@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (JON M. TAYLOR) writes:
>> 	AHEM.  I'm an Atheist, and I don't believe in stong atheism (i.e. 
>> saying that there IS NOT a god, rather than saying that it's EXTRMELY 
>> unlikely that there is one).  I imagine that few would take the position of 
>> strong atheism.  Luckily, most atheists are not as thick as most fanatical 
>> muslims.
>
>Dictionary definition: 
>
>Atheism, n.  The doctrine or belief that there is no God or that the assertion
>of his existence is meaningless.

Don't trust that dictionary too much.  (By the way, look up "Islam".)

>By the way, I have NEVER made a blanket negative statement about atheists the
>way you have above about Muslims.  You are the equivalent of a racist, Jon.

Certainly not.  Discrimination based on religion (even if J Taylor
were guilty of it, which I don't think he is) is by no means
equivalent to discrimination based on race.  One may choose to keep or
reject the former; there is nothing one can do about the latter.

>> 	There is only one type of atheism.  If the communists executed 
>> people, it was for political reasons.  I'm SURE I could dig up a LOT of 
>> references to religiously-backed genocide WRT islam.
>
>If communism was NOT atheist,

What would it mean for communism to be atheist?

>do you think they would be oppressive to religious people??????

Of course.  The bulk of oppression of religious people has been
carried out by other religious people.

>As for your assertion of religiously-backed genocide WRT islam, I think that
>your understanding of Islamic history is clearly weak.  While Islamic history
>is most certainly not perfect, WRT how it treats the adherents of other
>religions Islam has one of the best records.

Oh dear.  One of the best?  Name two religions which have worse records.

My own home country was under Ottoman occupation for 500 (five hundred)
years, and during all that time non-Muslims (Christians and Jews) were
_de jure_ second-class, _de facto_ tenth-class subjects of the Sultan,
Allah's shadow on Earth; and hordes of turbanned men haunted the place,
feeling welcome to do what they wished with the property, the body
and the life of every non-Muslim they met.  They believed that their
religion endorsed this kind of activity, since a Kafir, as an enemy of
Allah, was not quite human anyway, and women were only made for men to
use as they pleased.

>I have not made any broad generalizations of atheists, and I have not
>made any general unfavourable remarks about atheists.  In fact, I
>have a number of friends who happen to be atheists, whose views I respect.

Oh.  `I am not a racist, I even have a black friend.'

>However, periodically in alt.atheism (as well as some other groups),
>Muslims AS A WHOLE are slandered by people who, it is usually found,
>know practically nothing about Islam.

I don't believe this is true.  What do you have in mind?

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
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