HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fischer@bimacs.BITNET (Yitzy Fischer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Drying out the settlements
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:21:12 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Aug6.080644.14830@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>In article 103506HANK@BARILVM.BITNET, Hank Nussbacher
><HANK@BARILVM.BITNET> () writes:
>
>>                    Drying out the settlements
>>                    --------------------------
>
>I think that Hank has been away from American English for too long --
>the expression is "Hanging the Settlements out to Dry" (like wet laundry
>on a clothesline).
>
>[When I first read the Subject line, I thought Hank's article was
>about cutting-off their access to water!]


The term is a transliteration, not a translation.  Anyway, what's the
point?

Yitzy
--

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From: eitan@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Shternbaum Eitan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Rating Evil
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:32:17 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center.
Originator: eitan@pashosh.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il


There are very few facts regarding Israel going on around this group and lots of accusations.

How about straiting the record for once, In the spirit of the Olympic games ...
Lets rate the different countries according to their relative Evilness.
How about using Amnesty International reports ?

I'm quite sure that Israel wouldn't take the lead in this contest ...and I bet
that most other ME countries would be competing over the lead ...

BTW as to the landau commitie report, Yigal Arens is right pointing out to someone some while ago that the report had a hidden chapt
Yigal is also right stating that this guy should not make assumptions over matters which are not known ... pitty Yigal doesn't liste
Yigal, did you ever read any part of the landau report ? (I must say i didn't,
but then i'm not a self claimed export in torturing techniques ...)

Eitan
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel: Chutzpah at the Negotiating Table
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:11:16 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <Bsxv6p.HvB.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>In article <10315@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>
>   Alan H. Stein writes
>   +
>   + In a previous article, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) says:
>   +
>   + >nora gayle rivkis writes
>   + >
>   + >+ I would have them say they will not try to destroy Israel (they wouldn't
>   + >+ succeed anyway) and then back that statement up with both unilateral ac-
>   + >+ tions with respect to terrorism and ironclad treaties restricting mili-
>   + >+ tary action.
>   + >
>   + >Yep, that's clear enough, and sufficient. The details may be problematic,
>   + >tho. Would the "ironclad" treaties concerning military action be
>   applicable
>   + >to Israel as well? Israel has the right to secure borders - but so does
>   + >her neighbors.
>   + >
>   + Since Israel has never had any territorial claims against any of its
>   + neighbors, that's a non-issue as far as Israel is concerned.  It would
>
>   Non issue? Would you care to make the claim the Israel WILL NEVER have
>   ambitions on her neighbor's land? Nice that you trust the Israeli
>   government.
>
>   Someone else proposed that some Arab states give up territory to Israel
>   as gesture of good will. My intial thought was "no way". But on further
>   reflection, I think this is a good thing. On one condition.
>
>   That the indigenous population be given full citizenship in their new
>   country, and that their rights be respected.

To the best of my knowledge, the above is the platform of the Techiya
party in Israel as regards the status of the territories.


>
>I would expect nothing less.  Israel did offer citizenship to the
>residents of the areas it "annexed" since 1967 (ie. the Golan and East
>Jerusalem), but the most of the residents (in a not unreasonable move,
>IMHO) refused to accept it.
>--
>Stewart M. Clamen                      Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
>School of Computer Science             UUCP:        uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
>Carnegie Mellon University             Phone:       +1 412 268 2145
>5000 Forbes Avenue                     Fax:         +1 412 268 5739
>Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA


-Danny Rothenberg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Redefinition (was: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA)
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:20:53 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.03

In <1992Aug13.195729.14717@anasaz>, scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)  wrote:
# 
# In article <1992Aug12.222516.22951@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
# >In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug11131118@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
# >>I would say that terrorism involves violence to achieve
# >>political, rather than military, ends.  
# >
# >In that case, Desert Storm was one giant terrorist action.
# 
# I think I have to agree with Jake; this is a silly definition,
# especially when you consider that the definition of _war_ is
# violence to achieve political ends.
# 
# Unless, of course, you're asserting that terrorism is synonymous
# with war.  Perhaps true, but not a very useful or practical 
# definition.

  On the contrary, it is a VERY useful definition.  By extending the
  definition to include capturing the people who blow up schoolchildren
  we establish a moral equivalency between the perpetrators and the
  victims.  Pretty soon, the word loses its utility and the (former)
  terrorists are politically rehabilitated.
---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                    dcs@witsend.uucp ---
--- And if that doesn't work:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.war
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Nuclear War in the Middle East - Soviet Nuclear Weapons Stolen?
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 23:38:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Hello,

I've been hearing rumors (the lowest form of information) that during the
breakup of the Soviet Union, some of the Soviet tactical nuclear weapons were
acquired surreptitiously by one or more Islamic countries, such as Iran, as
well as some trained personnel to maintain and deploy these weapons.  In
addition, I also heard (again just a rumor) that Israel believes that nuclear
war between them and the Islamic country which acquired the weapons could
occur in the near future.  Supposedly, Israel has about 100 nuclear weapons
in their arsenal.

Of course, this is all hearsay, and I'd like to get feedback from the
net.wisdom as to whether or not there is even a grain of truth in the above
information.

Jon Noring

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
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"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Friday, 21 Aug 1992 16:41:29 MST
From: <ICSPMS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject:    Help with Research

I have just been assigned a project to research the judicial structure of
the Soviet Union before the breakup and also what is developing now within
the various unified nations.  I need to compare the old judicial structure
and how it has now changed.

If anyone out there can help by recommending some good resources, I would
certainly appreciate it.  I have also posted this request on the
soc.culture.soviet listserv.  Hopefully, I'll get some responses.  Please
respond directly to me.

Thanks...

*************************************************************************
Patricia M. Schneider         BITNET   - ICSPMS@ASUACAD
Arizona State University      INTERNET - ICSPMS@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
Tempe, AZ  85287-0101         VOICE    - (602) 965-2826
*************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:6997 talk.politics.misc:39711
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Government Guarantees (was re: News from xussr)
Date: 14 Aug 1992 10:42:17 -0700
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: smaug.West.Sun.COM

zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>>Fortunately, the US government guarantees the bearer of each dollar
>>to 1 dollars worth of goods or services.

>I'll be most interested in finding out how the US government does that.

Largely by accepting those dollars as payment for tax debt.  1/2 :-)

Richard M. Mathews			G eorge
Internet:   richard@locus.com		 D epression
UUCP:	    ...!uunet!lcc!richard	  B ush casts a
MIL/BITNET: richard%lcc@UUNET.UU.NET	   G loom on us all
From: jbharlan@indyvax.iupui.edu (John B Harlan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Soviet Archives: where?
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:49:32 GMT
Organization: Dis?

In article <Bt7Buo.808@csn.org>, tbuck@teal.csn.org (Timothy E. Buchanan) writes:
> I have read that the Soviet archives on display in D.C. are 
> available on the internet. Can someone tell me where and what files 
> I can anonymous ftp to get these?
>  
> Spasibo,
> Timothy.
-- 

     From seq1.loc.gov at the Library of Congress.  I don't have my notes
handy, but I *think* the directory is /pub/soviet.archive 


                         John B. Harlan

                        JBHarlan@IndyVAX
                   JBHarlan@IndyVAX.IUPUI.Edu
                          219.289.6629
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: The European Parliament recognized the Armenian Genocide
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:29:03 GMT

	The European Parliament has recognized the fact of the
Armenian Genocide in its resolution passed in Brussels in 1984.

	Two years ago, in 1990, one of the US Senate Committees was 
considering a decision to commemorate the 75-th anniversary of the
Armenian Genocide in the United States.

	It took Turkey a special visit of president Ozal to 
Washington, threats of closing American military bases in Turkey,
bargaining with the economic ties and the strategic importance
of Turkey to block the adoption of a similar resolution by the US Senate.

	The same kind of pressure was used when the United Nations
committee included the Armenian Genocide among other historical
references in its resoluton. 

	When Armenia became independent after the collapse of the 
USSR, the Turkish government again used the economic and transportation
factors to try to stop the commemoration of the Armenian Genocide in
Armenia itself.
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re:  Mutlu prayer
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:59:24 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Don't overstress you poor brains, "Artavazd Khachikian".
They could flunk you, as they did with that Armenian terrorist
Ahmet Cosar from ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle
who by his stupid posting from cosar@micro.cs.umn.edu tries
to make a fool of himself. Now everybody knows that he is indeed
Armenian terrorist who forged me by orders of his bosses.

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages).
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5
 million Muslim people)

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them.
                      Turkish children also should be killed as
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.'
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re:  Model Republic
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:21:53 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>From: "Michael C. Wu" <mikie@OCF.BERKELEY.EDU>

>     Armenia has between 100 and 150 nuclear war-heads

Where!?
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7125 soc.history:7500
From: TSLYWKA@UCS.INDIANA.EDU ("Terence R. Slywka")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: News from xussr
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:34:35 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

I had also heard that Russia might be printing more Rubles to pay its
debts.  In a recent post Yury remarked that this is what the US does as well.
While the US increased government spending on the military and incurred
debt doing so it does not print more money as a way to pay debt.  One of the
basic principles of supply and demand economic theory it that the greater
the supply of any item the lower the equilibrium price (lower market value).
If a government prints money excessively the value of each dollar, ruble,
pound, mark or whatever the currency might be, is reduced.  Hyperinflation
could easily result.  The current inflation rate in the Russia is reported
to be ~350% /half year or ~1000%/year.  If this rate of inflation is
combined with excessive money printing, considering that at 1000% inflation
currency has little if any value over time, the results would be disasterous.
Under these circumstances I would be hard pressed to see how any economic
reform could be successful.  The first thing to do would be to stabilize the
currency so that loans can be made and citizens can make investments (calculate
rate of return).  The important thing to remember about US dolars is that
by themselves they are worthless, just paper (perhaps not totally worthless,
the paper itself might serve some purpose).  A dollar is only worth what
someone is willing to give you for it (like anything else in a market
economy).  Fortunately, the US government guarantees the bearer of each dollar
to 1 dollars worth of goods or services.

Terence Slywka
Indiana University ('till 8-14-92)

TSLYWKA@IUBACS
TSLYWKA@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
MALAMUTE@AOL.COM
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7137 soc.history:7519
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.history
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:44:28 GMT
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article <1992Aug19.133216.14888@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>
>Please note that I have never suggested anything remotely resembling
>collective responsibility.  However, as Hetman of the army, Petliura was
>certainly fully responsible for the actions of his troops.

  But why then that brave guy needed to hunt for Mr. Petliura
on the Paris's streets instead of sueing him in the court as
war criminal ?

>
>
>"Curious" in what way?  Sounds perfectly predictable, given their political
>agenda.  Perhaps you might recall a White Army marching song:
>
>	"Smelo my v boj pojdem
>	"Za Rus' sviatuiu,
>	"I vsekh zhidov pob'em,
>	"Svoloch' takuiu!"

   Well, I think Mr.Zeleny overestimated White Army's
folklore. That song above was surely produced in the Soviet
cinema of last decades rather than during Civil War.

  With all possible cordiality,
  Serega

P.S. Of course Hetman Petlura, as well as Stepan Bendera,
Nestor Makhno, et al, were best friends of Jews. Who doubts ?!
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re:  The Victory of Truth over the Forces of Revisionism
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:40:24 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:42:06 GMT
>From: David Davidian <dbd@URARTU.SDPA.ORG>

>History is there to be observed, noted, used, and in some cases, revised. I
>have seen all of these and I must say the last category mentioned, namely,
>revision, is the useless of all.

>I for one, am sitting back and watching Turks of the Mutlu persuasion make
>total idiots out of themselves. After addressing most all of Mutlu's and
>others in the service of the Turkish government over the years, I find myself
>in a kind of semi-retirement. That is, I can sit back and witness is the
>triumph of truth over the zealous re-write of history.

Mutlu's posting tons of quotes, accounts, and so on, of alleged Armenian
atrocities toward Turks every day. I din't see you posting an eyewitness
account of Armenian genocide of 1915 last five months (may be I've missed
something). People who know Caucasian history well probably don't need it.

I bet you there are less then 5% of such people among readers. Most others
don't have neither time nor willingness to check Mutlu's sources (as well
as I myself don't). So if they even assume 10% of his stuff is true (and I
am sure an average reader assumes more than that), they have mountains of
evidence to convince themselves that Armenians indeed did exterminate Turks
(even if they don't really care of it). That's what Mutlu wants. On the other
side, people couldn't get real knowledge of Turkish conduct in 1915, except
general statements (probably half-heard in high school at the time) that
there was some genocide, or something, of Armenians. So, at best they'll
think there was a war, and Turks and Armenians were killing each other, as
it usually should be. That's what you want?! That's what you call "triumph
of truth"?? I think, it's triumph of ignorance. That's exactly what Mutlu
tries to achieve. Truth cannot triumph without telling it. It's far less
than needed - to say Mutlu is fool. Real historic knowledge - that's what
is needed. If Mutlu is wrong, it alone doesn't make you right. At the time,
people used to think Hitler, Lenin or Khomeini were fools, too. Who were
real fools then, I wonder?


D.L.


P.S.
I know there was a book printed in Erevan in 60-ies, in two volumes,
containing compilation of sources on Turkish hostilities on Armenians
in 1895-1920. It was printed in Russian, and may be in Armenian too.
Unfortunately, I didn't see it. People who did, said it's striking.
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:12:42 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <wmelnitc.714205976@adelphi> 
wmelnitc@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Wally Melnitchouk) writes:

>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

MZ:
>>were conducted by uniformed members of the Ukrainian army.  Of my own
>>immediate family, at least two men were killed and one woman raped by

WM:
>I know of 3 of my relatives who were murdered during WWII (2 by the German
>army and one by the Soviets). Does that mean that I am justified in hating
>the guts of every living or dead German or Russian? Or that I should do my
>utmost to keep reminding Germans or Russians of what members of their
>nationality did? I personally don't think so. Such things are usually
>destructive, as are the people who do them.

Not in the least on the first, very much so on the second.  You might
consider the trouble many Germans and, especially, Austrians are having in
acknownedging their ancestors' complicity in the criminal actions of the
Third Reich.  Ditto for the heirs of the Soviet regime (both Russians and
Ukrainians, as well as all others) coming to terms with the crimes of the
Stalinist regime.  The alternative is to ignore history, thereby falsifying
it.  If you have a problem imagining the dire consequences of such willful
forgetfulness, think of the Armenian genocide.  Then look at the numerous
intellectual heirs of its perpetrators.  You don't have to look very far.

>Wally Melnitchouk.

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7135 talk.politics.theory:3739 talk.philosophy.misc:1608 soc.history:7517 misc.legal:16168
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.theory,talk.philosophy.misc,soc.history,misc.legal
Subject: Assasination
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:12:37 GMT
Followup-To: talk.philosophy.misc
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In a recent discussion I noted the legitimacy of assasination as the last
recourse for obtaining justice, as witnessed by the German and French court
decisions in the cases of Tehlirian's 1921 killing of Talaat Bey and
Schwartsbard's 1927 killing of Petliura.  It is my considered opinion that
such a course of action may be morally justified, *provided that* no other
means of bringing the criminal to justice are available, and that the
assasin is willing to submit to trial for his action.  However, other
historical cases, like that of the politically inconclusive, though highly
spectacular French anarchist _propaganda par le fait_ of the 1890's, make
me doubt the soundness of my reasoning.  Accordingly, I would like to hear
some calm arguments from people interested in history, legal theory, and
political philosophy.  I suggest that all participants observe the followup
line, and attempt to keep this discussion reasonably noise-free.

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."
From: zeleny@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Translation from Latin
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:00:11 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <TPS-L%92081900424253@INDYCMS.BITNET> you write:
>The literate translation of the latin phrase, mentioned by me in "Re:Standing
>Trial" is (please correct my spelling - my knowledge of Latin is far from sa-
>tisfactory):
>
>"Ed Mortius Nihil Veritas" equals to the Russian version of
>
>"About those who are dead say either good or nothing"

Not so.  Ask on sci.classics.

>Cheers,
>Timur.


best,
mz
From: RUBAN@hartford.bitnet ("Timur Y. Ruban")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: RE: Re: Translation from Latin
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:03:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

From:         Michael Zeleny <zeleny@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>

>In article <TPS-L%92081900424253@INDYCMS.BITNET> you write:
>>The literate translation of the latin phrase, mentioned by me in "Re:Standing
>>Trial" is (please correct my spelling - my knowledge of Latin is far from sa-
>>tisfactory):
>>
>>"Ed Mortius Nihil Veritas" equals to the Russian version of
>>
>>"About those who are dead say either good or nothing"
>
>Not so.  Ask on sci.classics.
>
>>Cheers,
>>Timur.
 >
>
>best,
>mz>

Source: Latin language (consult any textbook or dictionary).

The direct translation of the phrase "Ad mortuum nihil veritas" means
"About dead say no truth", but in Russian (as I have mentioned in my previous
post) this saying is an equivalent of "About those who are dead say either
good or nothing".

Yours Truly,
Timur