HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:43:35 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Since I left the original message, this is a bit redundant,
but yes, there are others who like Song of the Forests. If
anyone knows of plans to re-issue the LP on CD or re-record
it I would be grateful to know it. For those who don'tknow
the music, I think you will be well rewarded. It wears well
on repeated hearing as well as being easily accessible.
I recommend it to DS fans.

--
Dave Ozonoff
dozonoff@med-itvax1
Boston University School of Public Health
80 East Concord St., T3C
Boston, MA 0213918
(617) 638-4620
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Date: 9 Jan 1993 02:04:25 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1igrlmINN591@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
>bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:
>
>>Someone mentioned a while back the Haitink recordings of the Symphonies 2
>>and 3.  I have them on LP.  No doubt about it in my eyes:  #3 is crap.
>>But #2 isn't all that bad.  I like it.  It's not very good when you compare
>>it to the rest of his life's work, but it's interesting enough.  The
>>symphony is essentially a hymn to their God Lenin.  If you ignore the
>>silly lyrics it's not a bad piece.  For a similar type of piece written
>>by an American composer, look no further than Howard Hanson's "Song of
>>Democracy" based upon two poems of Walt Whitman.  It's crap.
>
>I think the first movement's experemtal nature is really interesting,
>and the lyrics of the choral section are rubbish but I like the tie
>in with the 12 symphony, well anyway that should be the other way
>around of course, but the music shows development - and to think it
>is only 4 opuses away from the wonderful 1st symphony..

Yeah, I agree. The symphony is a rather odd mix of experimental music with
something more conventional.  But an interesting thing happened to me when
I was listening to it which has endeared me to it ever since.  I was on a 
Greyhound bus on I-17 in central Arizona.  We were going north toward 
Flagstaff and we had finished climbing the mountains and were on this
plateau.  I was listening to the Second Symphony with my ghetto blaster with
ear phones (not walkman ones but real earphones).  I was sitting on the right
hand side of the bus staring out the window.  As the symphony approached the
point where the chorus sings "Oh Lenin!", the sun rise began.  Those of
you familiar with the piece know the place I am thinking of.  Do this day
when I think of it, I say to myself, "What terrific movie music it would have 
been!"



-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
From: jiang@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingchang Jiang)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:23:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

ns14@crux2.crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto Siemers) writes:

>>>>>> On 6 Jan 93 16:45:11 GMT, jiang@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingchang Jiang) said:

> Mingchang> I don't understand why we have to feel sorry about "silly
> Mingchang> texts" in some of Shostakovich's great music.

> Mingchang> A lot of Bach's and Beethoven's great music is based on silly religious
> Mingchang> context, in my opinion. That never hindered my enjoyment of it.


>	But in the case of DSCH we have a number of fantastic texts to
>campare them to.  (14th Symphony, Lady Macbeth?)
>--
>--
>/  | / /__|  /  /---/ /__| /  | /    nathan@chemres.tn.cornell.edu


In the case of Beethoven we also have "Ode to Joy".
-- 
M\'{\i}ngch\=ang J\={\i}ang
%%%%%%%% If it ain't broke, fix it.

-- 
M\'{\i}ngch\=ang J\={\i}ang
%%%%%%%% If it ain't broke, fix it.
From: jaapv@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Jaap Verhage)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Suggested conductor/symphony?
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:08:35 GMT
Reply-To: jaapv@accucx.cc.ruu.nl
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht

raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
[...]
>Jarvi conducts the Scottish National Orchestra (now
>Royal Scottish Orchestra) and the Gothenburg Symphony
>Orchestra, while Haitink recordings are mainly with
>the London Philharmonic and the Concergebow(sp?) Orch.
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah! Finally I can say something useful here. It's `Concertgebouw'
Orchestra, or even, in full, the `Koninklijke Concertgebouw'
Orchestra. `Koninklijke' means `Royal', and `Concertgebouw' means
`concert building', which is the place in Amsterdam which is the
orchestra's home, so to speak. The `Koninklijke' is a fairly recent
addition.
>-richard
>Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
>raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
>---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
-- 
Regards, Jaap.

Jaap Verhage, Academic Computer Centre, Utrecht University, Holland.
jaapv@accucx.cc.ruu.nl   +<-*|*->+  I claim *every*thing and speak for myself
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:08:40 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:

>Well, you can't fault DS for a bad libretto for something he wrote.  It's
>almost guaranteed that he didn't have much to do with it.  Besides, don't
>fault the man for writing hack-work, what some people refer to as "shit":
>the man had to eat and feed his wife and kids.  Usually, he did a pretty
>good job with his hack work.  The "Festive Overture" is a prime example of
>this.

Am I the only one who actually (gasp) likes the music for "Song of the
Forrests" ? Sure, the libretto is rubbish (though I only have a tape
and don't understand a word of the Russian, so what do I care what they
are singing, but I can imagine :) ). For a piece he was prob. loathed
to do, he comes up with quite a nice piece. The "Festive Overture" is
a fine piece as you say :)


>Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
>bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
>al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
>rsutton@eis.calstate.edu

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Suggested conductor/symphony?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 05:21:08 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

jaapv@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Jaap Verhage) writes:

>raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
>>the London Philharmonic and the Concergebow(sp?) Orch.
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ah! Finally I can say something useful here. It's `Concertgebouw'
>Orchestra, or even, in full, the `Koninklijke Concertgebouw'

Well at least I knew I had a spelling problem there, thanks mate :) :) :)

>Regards, Jaap.

>Jaap Verhage, Academic Computer Centre, Utrecht University, Holland.
>jaapv@accucx.cc.ruu.nl   +<-*|*->+  I claim *every*thing and speak for myself

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: vpt@jytko.jyu.fi (V.-P. Tahvanainen)
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Summary: Shost as a craftsman
Keywords: shost, craftmanship, hack work
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:10:48 GMT

In article <1iaqj8INNc29@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
>bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:
>
>>Well, you can't fault DS for a bad libretto for something he wrote.  It's
>>almost guaranteed that he didn't have much to do with it.  Besides, don't
>>fault the man for writing hack-work, what some people refer to as "shit":
>>the man had to eat and feed his wife and kids.  Usually, he did a pretty
>>good job with his hack work.  The "Festive Overture" is a prime example of
>>this.
>
>Am I the only one who actually (gasp) likes the music for "Song of the
>Forrests" ? Sure, the libretto is rubbish (though I only have a tape
>and don't understand a word of the Russian, so what do I care what they
>are singing, but I can imagine :) ). For a piece he was prob. loathed
>to do, he comes up with quite a nice piece. The "Festive Overture" is
>a fine piece as you say :)
>
Well, I know I should not act like the regular dissident, but can't
resist...

IMHO, both are very well-written technically, and utterly forgettable
musically. That is, DS was a master in orchestration, and frequently
used this talent to mask the fact that he did not really have much to
say in works he was not really inspired of. (And for once I can speak
of real experience, since I was actually once playing the Festive
Overture in an amateur orchestra in my youth...)

Incidentally, I remember one of my teachers refer to the "Song of the
forests" as "the oratorio that sounds like American film music". Could
it be that some people like it because of that? :-) :-)

Veli-Pekka

Veli-Pekka Tahvanainen, researcher, project MetaPHOR / All opinions are solely
Dept. of Computer Science & Information systems     / mine unless explicitely
University of Jyvaskyla                            / otherwise stated, and
P.O.Box 35, SF-40351  JYVASKYLA, Finland          / subject to change!
vpt@hyeena.jyu.fi, vpt@jytko.jyu.fi
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 8 Jan 1993 02:36:32 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

ymai@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:

>jjjjjjjjj
>tttt

don't tell me! This is an example of Socialist Realism right? 

Zhdanov would be pleased!!!!

:)

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: ns14@crux2.crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto Siemers)
Subject: Re: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Organization: Department of Chemistry, Cornell Univ.
	<Jan.6.11.45.10.1993.12916@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:08:10

>>>>> On 6 Jan 93 16:45:11 GMT, jiang@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingchang Jiang) said:

 Mingchang> I don't understand why we have to feel sorry about "silly
 Mingchang> texts" in some of Shostakovich's great music.

 Mingchang> A lot of Bach's and Beethoven's great music is based on silly religious
 Mingchang> context, in my opinion. That never hindered my enjoyment of it.


	But in the case of DSCH we have a number of fantastic texts to
campare them to.  (14th Symphony, Lady Macbeth?)
--
--
/  | / /__|  /  /---/ /__| /  | /    nathan@chemres.tn.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.tv-show,talk.abortion
From: ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer)
Subject: Re: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
Organization: Netcom. San Jose, California
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 08:29:24 GMT

vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes ...
>Liberals love violating rights.  Go for it.

Conservative love blaiming liberals for everything that goes wrong.
After all, no true conservative could _ever_ be wrong about anything.

-- 
Ray Fischer                   "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth
ray@netcom.com                 than lies."  -- Friedrich Nietszsche
From: ryanm@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: I'm Famous!
Date: 4 Jan 1993 20:50:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <22580009@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates) writes:
>Jesus H. Christ!...

Your choice of vocabulary is lousy!  You offend myself and every other
Christian on this newsgroup.  I am not one to haul off and hit someone
but this is pushing it!!!!  --Ryan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  Ryan McNeilly                    Internet: ryanm@u.washington.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"You can't deal from a position of weakness"  --Alfred Thayer Mahan
Moral:  Protect the 2nd Amendment!

My comments and opinions are my own and nobody elses!!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: mykes@shell.portal.com (mike myke schwartz)
Subject: Re: WHY DOES RUSH MISPRONOUNCE NAMES?
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:35:44 GMT

Mike Van Pelt (mvp@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <ndasmith-080193124849@amac222.acns.nwu.edu> ndasmith@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Noah Smith) writes:
: >Regular listeners will notice that Rush likes to say the last names of
: >Robert Reich and Mario Cuomo differently than most people are accustomed
: >to.  If anybody knows why he's doing this, let me know at the above
: >address.  Thanks!
: 
: Because it amuses him.  Sometimes it amuses me, too. ("The REVVVVVrund
: JACKsuhhhhhn")  Other times I find it annoying, at least after the
: first dozen times I hear it.  (Cuomo and Reich)
: 
: Your mileage may vary.

Rush pronounces Cuomo "KOOMO" because that's how Jesse Jackson pronounces
it.

: 
: -- 
: Mike Van Pelt          | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
: mvp@netcom.com         | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
:                        | sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
:                        | can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
Xref: sparky alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:12292 alt.rush-limbaugh:13677
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Sex Education in Public Schools
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:36:57 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <1993Jan6.162246.15359@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:

>
>The following four books are used in many public school 
>districts.  The pamphlet is distributed in many school-based 
>birth control (family planning) clinics.

1) Are these books used in your school district?   If so, is the school board
elected?

>(13) "There are only two basic kinds of sex: sex with victims and 
>      sex without.  Sex with victims is always wrong.  Sex without 
>      is always right."   (pg. 10-11)

2)  Do you disagree with this statement?  Do you think sex with victims
is right?  On the other hand, if sex is right, can it be with a victim?
Obviously not (I'll grant you that stand without waiting for an answer).
Thus, if "right sex" cannot be with a victim, then assuming closure of
the set of all people in the two classes of victim and not victim, then we
can conclude that if no victim exists, then the sex was right.

Note, that our definitions of victim are different - you probably feel
that any unmarried people having sex are being victimized, while I
would define victim differently.  For example, I would
feel that forceable sex produces a victim, whether or not the couple
is married, while freely consentual sex is victimless (modulo
questions of safe sex, pregnancy, etc...).
From: dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: I'm Famous!
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:54:24 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department

tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates) writes:

> Jesus, Joseph and Mary!

[.....]

> Why dont you shoot me with you guns? 

I'm sorry, we're all out of ewe guns, so I'll have to use this revolver.

BANG.

You're welcome.

(sorry, couldn't resist)


--
"To call something 'Public' is to define it as filthy, inefficient and
dangerous. The public toilet is the epitome of social spending."
                                                 - P.J. O'Rourke
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Movin' on Up (was Re: Mail Bouncing)
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:39:22 GMT


In a previous article, ij59@vaxb.acs.unt.edu () says:

> By the way, incase no one's added it yet, the Carol Moseley Braun update 
>theme is the theme from "The Jeffersons". I'm not sure if it has an official 
>title or who sings it.

Hehhe...

You limbots amaze me.  You sit back and claim, oh, we're so correct, we're
so intelligent, and after 3 days not ONE of you have been able to answer
a simple trivia question.

And now a LIBERAL is telling you, the song is titled "Movin' on Up", and it's
performed by the Mississippi Mass Choir, with the lead being sung by
Ja'net DuBios (who played the role of Walona Woods) on the television
show it was the theme of.

You can't figure out something that simple, but you want to run the world...

Pathetic.



>

>"The American economy cannot be revived without someone getting rich: why not 
>me?"--Rush, in TWTOTB
> 
>
And that, in a nutshell, defines Limbaugh's entire motivation.


-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist  /\/\   These are the REAL  *         
*  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu/Kelley L. Miller  / /__\      Gay 90's!!      *           
*-------------------------------------/____\-----------------------*  
***************** Oxymoron: Freewill Christianity ******************
From: dodsonsl@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Bush's Pardons
Date: 8 Jan 93 08:40:55 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <C0HM4D.51n@news.rich.bnr.ca>, gaj@n8ppd300.DOMAIN.NOT.SET (Gerald A. Josephson) writes:
> 
> After having read popec's comment accross many posts today, all I can say is I'm
> sad to see a person who confuses thier political views with what they want the
> law to be.  I would invite him to read some backround material on the subject as
> to what Mr. Walsh has been doing on the hill and how he has abused the little 
> power he has given.  Mr Lawrence has acted in a way not unlike McCarthey did 
> while looking for communists in the 50's.  References include stories in US News
> and World Report and Readers Digest (actually a nice source as it pulls in from
> all over).
> 
> gaj

I keep hearing about how Walsh has unlimited power and money and how he is
abusing the rights of those he is investigating. Exactly what has he done?
Has he conducted any illegal searches or seizures? Has he had anyone's prop-
erty confiscated, like the IRS does? Has he had anyone arrested and left
them in jail without being charged? Has he bugged any phones, offices, or
homes? What has he done that is so much worse than anything that would occur
in any other criminal investigation? -Sorry, I haven't read US Views and World
Distort in a while :)

Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Conservative?  Hahaha....
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:19:01 GMT

In article <FFsTwB1w165w@major.panix.com> dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea) writes:
>My guess is that it would be very little. Any company that had a policy
>of not hiring people simply because of their skin color of sex would be
>presumably passing over qualified employees for less qualified ones, and
>would find itself out of investors.

Not really.   Not if the investors are bigoted, too.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: ryanm@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Bush's Pardons
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:40:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

Interesting how a few people would like a few people to go to jail for
something like this when congress commits BIGGER crimes everyday.  Lets
get a few special investigators to investigate all the crud that goes on
in congress!

--Ryan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  Ryan McNeilly                    Internet: ryanm@u.washington.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"You can't deal from a position of weakness"  --Alfred Thayer Mahan
Moral:  Protect the 2nd Amendment!

My comments and opinions are my own and nobody elses!!!!!

Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.limbaugh
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Abortion is poverty control, to some extent.
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:18:09 GMT

In article <unhealth.726544894@mcl> unhealth@mcl.ucsb.edu (Kristian Dunn) writes:
>To whom it may concern:
>	I consider myself a fiscally conservative and a 'better dead than red'
>	Republican Anglo-Danish Male. But one of my only bones of content with
>	Rush, is his inability to understand that abortion should be tolerated
>	since it kills many more children that would likely live in ghettos,
>	commit crime, and then become fourth generation welfare recipients!
>	I believe the state should carry out abortions on a much larger scale
>	and make the choice of life or death regardless of what the mother
>	thinks. Just think about it, we could fashion the gene pool, via abort-
>	ion or sterilization, to eliminate potential parasites of society.
>	I think conservatives should drop the 'ban the abortion' stance, that
>	they have taken for so long, and turn it around to further the econom-
>	ic well being of America. Hopefully sterilzation or abortion, will
>	diminish the underclass that exists in America, by so much, that
>	this country will become great again. America really should encourage
>	smart and productive members of society to reproduce in abundance,
>	while penalizing those who are nothing more than parasites!
>	I did read Rush's book cover to cover and enjoyed every chapter, except
>	the abortion chapter. Rush made very good arguments about the innocence
>	of the child, which is absolutely true, but isn't  a reduction in
>	crime, welfare, and countless other dollars of money spent to try and
>	make these genetically disadvantaged people better, just a waste of
>	money, since it is in their genes and environment to become detrimental
>	to society?
>	I would appreciate to hear from my fellow 'dittoheads' out there, and
>	try to make a case against economic betterment.


I wonder how it sounded in the original German......
Simon

Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh