From: kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown)
Subject: Re: Different Mormon God
Organization: I can't see any in the immediate vicinity...
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:50:47 GMT

In article <30464@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> pwhite@ems.cdc.com writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.155449.11947@nuchat.sccsi.com>, kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes:
>|> In article <17479@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
[...]
>|> >Most enlightened humans
>|> >recognize torture as something beyond the pale of justice, yet here
>|> >we have this supposed God that uses it as a routine punishment,
>|> >for even the slightest sins, and calls that justice.  Yes, I recognize
>|> >that I am a sinner, but no, I don't think I am deserving of the
>|> >punishment the fundamentalists have in mind for me.  
>|> 
>|> I entirely agree with the sentiment of this (though I have no beliefs
>|> in any "God").
>|> 
>One can argue endlessly about the fairness or justness or lack thereof
>of the way God has set up the universe, but it's not going to change the
>facts. If it really is the way the Christians say it is, it is prudent
>for the non-Christian to decide what he is going to do about it.

This is true.  *IF*, as you say, things are the way the Christians say it
is.  But *are* things that way?

Maybe.  But I have no reason to believe so, and many reasons to believe
not.

>Lets take an example from gravity. I can say that gravity is very 
>unfair to me if I step off a cliff or a bridge. However, it works
>very well when I want to walk around my house or drive my car.
>It's not too smart for me to say, "Well, since the law of gravity
>is unfair in certain circumstances, I'm not going to believe in it."

I don't think you quite get the picture.  I am not questioning whether
or not the *rules* are fair, I'm questioning whether or not YOUR GOD
is fair, based on what the rules are.  See the difference?

If your God is fair, just, and kind, then the rules will *also* be fair,
just, and kind.  But they aren't.  Rather, they're unfair, unkind, and
unjust.  Indeed, they're quite uncaring.  There seems to be no correlation
between how a person gets treated by the laws of the universe (e.g.,
gravity) and how good, kind, and loving that person is.

>God is a very wonderful person. I'm glad that we can know him because
>of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. 

Your God is presumably a free agent, able to choose any configuration of
the universe it pleases.  Yet your God has chosen one in which the very
creations it professes to love are not only given the ability to suffer,
but are in essence *required* to suffer (at least to some degree).  Since
your God could (if it is as powerful as most Christians believe) have
chosen AND IMPLEMENTED a universe in which his creations do not suffer, I
have no reason to believe that your God "loves" any of us humans.

As far as we can tell, rocks have no ability to suffer.  Perhaps *that*
is what your God *really* loves.

>Peter White

The ability of so many of you Christians to blindly accept wanton cruelty
is truly stunning.


-- 
Kevin Brown					kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com
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