HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rickc@agora.uucp (Rick Coates)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: 'together' & 'at ease..' (was: Re: Who am I anyway?)
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:01:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.1992Aug21.040154.12939
Organization: Open Communications Forum

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

>In <17886@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>>[...] The surprising thing is, there aren't many (any?) postings on
>>soc.bi like this. Have you all got yourselves together or what?
                                                ^^^^^^^^

>It is very easy to read the discussions on soc.bi and think that all
>the posters are perfectly at ease with themselves (and especially their
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sexuality). 

To change the emphasis of these posts a bit (at least I changed the
Subject: heading!):

What do people mean by these phrases?  I really don't feel that I'm
going towards being 'together'; I kinda like being lots of different
things spread all over.  I do try to be at ease - but to me that means
accepting of what I am, not abandoning the search for change, or
considering the possiblity that I have made, or are making, or will
make serious blunders.

(I'm not trying to put words into Ciaran's mouth here [no comments, now],
just get at a different topic).

Rick
(way too tired right now to make more of a stab at this...)

Rick Coates
rickc@agora.rain.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler)
Subject: Re: Big numbers
Reply-To: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 02:21:49 GMT


In a previous article, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) says:

>Oh, just been looking around the news system, and this article's going
>to be #9908 or so for soc.bi... since we missed a little at the start,
>I guess that we're, globally, somewhere about the ten-thousand-messages
>mark.

Hmm - We've been over 10,000 for some time here... We even beat
Tanaqui's 11670 -- Your message was 11696 here.. So PHT..
>
>I think that calls for a little celebration, don't you?

Celebration (as opposed to celibation [is that a word? As in celebate?])
is always in order...

-- 
|Jeff Epler               Additions Welcome           c(-8 ;-) >{8-) |
| :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: |
| >X^P 8-[                                          Lincoln, Nebraska|
Xref: sparky soc.bi:10825 soc.motss:35197
From: n8442349@henson.cc.wwu.edu (The Matriarch)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:42:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug22.164241.11910
Organization: Western Washington University


	I think an ftp site with bios is a good idea.  And if Ciaran was
willing, it could have a copy of his bisexual phrase book as well. ;)  I
tend to envision a sort of bi-info clearing house when I think of the
possibilities.

						Joy

-- 
Joy Ralph
n8442349@henson.cc.wwu.edu

- I am the electric messiah - the AC/DC _GOD_
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Iseult, Tanaqui and crutches (was: That bloody War )
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:19:59 GMT

tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:


>See! Sweet & pure & innocent! We did nothing!! 

Just when we had established that all you were laying claim to was an aura
of innocence, you decide to use this epithet.  Somehow I don't think so.

BTW  I wish you wouldn't discuss delicious foodstuffs like Morceaus
Mignons, which I miss terribley, and cannot buy here.  

Iseult.
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Michigan Wom*n's Music Festival
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:43:36 GMT
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Well, everybody, I went to the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival for the
Very First Time in My Life.  And I had an excellent time.

I had been quite wary about going to the festival since I identify as bi
and it is a separatist "womyn's space".  I had heard about bi women being
harassed or denounced, so I braced for some confrontations.  Fortunately,
there were several workshops on bisexuality, where many, many bi women
showed up.  (And where I told some about soc.bi and exchanged email 
addresses).  The first one was "coming out as bisexual" - and there did
seem to be a lot of women dealing more with the question of being "out" in 
straight world than "out" in the lesbian world.  I didn't really feel so
interested in the straight world, so the most useful part of that workshop
for me was meeting some other women, including some from Chicago.
The next day was a workshop on "being bisexual in the lesbian community" -
and since the moderator never showed up, the free-form-ness of the workshop
was very useful for discussing issues.  Three non-bi lesbians showed up, two
specifically to confront their own biphobia - fantastic!

Somebody had also reserved a space for "breakfast with bi's" - and I met
several interesting women, including an activist from Canada working on getting
the law changed to allow women to take off their shirts.

Other enjoyable things, the crafts, all the women running around without
shirts, and yes, some of the music was even good. (this coming from a classical
music head who doesn't pay much attention to popular genres).

Now I feel a bit torn about the whole issue of separatism and women's space.
I don't want to live the separatist life, even if I were to give up on having
male lovers, I'd still have male friends and family.  I'm trying to get an
academic job, and don't really feel like joining a separatist economy (were
such a thing to get off the ground).  How different is the freedom and peace
experienced at the festival from the freedom and peace men experience in 
their all-male clubs?  (re: Armistead Maupin).  But I had such a good time ...

-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gender difference?
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:45:18 GMT

johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:

|In article <24891@castle.ed.ac.uk> angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:
|>A less obvious gender difference occurred to me.  After i've been
|>vaginally (mine that is) intimate with someone, I am physically aware of
|>the penetration for up to 2-4 days afterwards.  I did a quick survey. 
|>The women agreed.  The men hadn't heard of the lingering effects before
|>and it didn't happen to them. 

|Are you talking about when men aren't the receptive partner?  

Well, i'm actually talking about my experience - a woman being the
receptive partner.  It was a new thought and i haven't worked it very
thoroughly yet.

|                                                               If so, 
|that's odd.  I know that whenever I am the bottom for anal sex, I can
|definitely still feel the penetration for a couple of days after

Um <blush>, i still have some relics of a presbyterian upbringing. Susie
Sexpert (thanks Sara) is taking care of them. Got the theory, just need 
the practice.

|>I got to wondering what emotional effects this could have.  I wonder if
|>that explains why men (in general) find it easier to compartmentalise
|>the different parts of their life than women do? If you can feel the
|>physical effect of a lover days afterwards, thoughts of them are bound
|>to surface more readily. 

|I _think_ I know what you are trying to say, but could you explain
|more what you mean?

Well, i've found that if i've been physically and emotionally close to
someone then i can get very abstracted for the next few days.  I hadn't
noticed this happening to any of my male lovers.  For instance, thinking
of the person, clenching my muscles in memory, feeling the perineum
being different to normal, more thoughts.  Distracting when i'm trying
to code :-) 

Angi
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Subject: Re: Marraige and Apartheid
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:10:03 GMT


i know i promised to shut up on this one, but...

how many american white folks who truly believed blacks
had the right to vote quit voting to make a point?  

peg

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Need for a new word (Was: Hetero/bi/homophobia)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:49:35 GMT

In article <keithd.714115981@cluster> keithd@stallion.oz.au 
(Keith Duddy) writes:

>The thing that I always found appealing about the use of the word
>homophobia was that it put bigotry in terms of psychological disorder.
>It's nice to believe that the people who hate and fear you are mentally
>ill, and all they need is the right counselling to overcome their fear
>and be normal again. In several senses this term is quite accurate, in
>that hatred and prejudice against people of unlike sexual orienatation
>is often based on ignorance, and the words and actions that manifest 
>the prejudice are often irrational and fearful. 

There is research suggesting their are several dimensions to prejudice
against homosexuals - only one of which is "phobic" in the classic
sense. 

>BUT (there had to be a
>but didn't there) homo[bi/hetero more recently]phobia has become the 
>de-facto term for describing prejudice/bigotry/hate against
>homo[bi/hetero]sexuality, and it is not always appropriate.
>[...]
>When we are stuck with a word which has specific roots in pyschological
>terminology as the only means of describing all hatred/fear/prejudice/
>political action against us then we are bound to find situations when
>the words/actions of the "homophobic" are not simply motivated by
>irrational fear, and arguments like the one above arise.
>
>In the search for a better catch-all word I started by thinking of an
>analogue to "racism", but of course "sexism" is already used in the
>domain on gender relations, and "orientationism" just doesn't cut it.
>Anyone got any ideas??

The reason the word "homophobia" is so widely used is that it was
coined first.  The related term I would suggest is "heterosexism".

Then of course there are "biphobia" and "monosexism" -- but I would
not be surprised if people did not understand what you meant when
you used them.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Bisexual Centre of the Worlde
Date: 5 Aug 92 10:34:52 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

hopkins@turing.ac.uk (Don Hopkins) writes:

>angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:
>   idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>   |Texas doesn't spring to mind as the bisexual centre of anything (face it,
>   |it's Edinburgh or nowhere :)) 
>
> Bill's dream of Edinburgh being the bisexual centre of the world might
> come true after all :-).  I hope.  We Edinburgers will just have to talk
> you all into moving here *grin*. 
>
>You Edinmumblers do more than talk, to make us want to move there!
>It's going to be hard for me to leave Scotland and go back to the
>United States, but my time in Glasgow is almost up.  I'm moving to
>Pittsburgh in September. Anybody know of any good queer coffee shops
>near CMU?
>
>But before I go: I think now that we've warmed them up at the
>Peartree, we should go back and put on a *really* BIg show! And let's
>not forget to pass the hat this time!

Coo, can I come again? I'm beginning to think one of the best things about
Newcastle is its relative proximity to Edinburgh :-)

Besides, I need the money!

>The Glasgow bi group now meets on Mondays, instead of Thursdays, so I
>can attend *two* bisexual groups a week now!  It's so hard to decide,
>I just have to have it both ways.  See ya Thursday in Edinburgh!

I'm off to the inaugural meeting of the nascent North East Bi Group this
Thursday night. I think I shall lobby for it to be moved to a Tuesday...
wouldn't it be cool to go to a bi group meeting in a different city every
night of the week? :-)


/jon
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_     One of the "merry scurrying       //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /     pixy folk"  (--John Fisher)      // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/__[B2t+w-g+svrp]___________________///////////  //
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: u895174@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: Hot bi babes and masculinity...
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:36:48 GMT


>I've often pondered the 'Gun's' and 'Roses' name. Let's see, could
>be the venacular for a weapon, and so could mean... [deleted]

How about "Guns" from ex-guitarist Stacii Guns and "Roses" from singer
Axl Rose?  That's his explanation anyway.

Xref: sparky soc.bi:10998 soc.motss:35765
From: Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 01:54:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Aug17.001659.14197@plts.uucp>    
  <1992Aug17.152323.21202@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>  
  <1992Aug18.033834.1387@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <64206@cup.portal.com>
  <jkfyn=#@rpi.edu>

First let me state that having read orc's and buckmr's articles on this
subject. But i would like to point out, GHWB didn't ask for the tax hikes. The
Demo's did. And they got just what they asked for.

Also, I have no idea what classism is. Could you elaborate buckmr?

The point I was attempting to make (and rather badly it would seem), is that
i can't afford either. Every dollar taken from me and sent to Washington, or
Sacramento for that matter, is one less dollar I have to put food on the table
for my kids. Its one less dollar I have to clothe them. It makes it harder to
go back to school or to afford a house or to give to charity. 

Whenever you raise taxes, you're taking money away from people at the point of
gun. The taxpayer has no choice in paying his taxes, at least the minimum
required. But if you can afford it, the IRS will let you overpay your taxes.
I can't. I can barely keep my head above water as it is.

And while I doubt GHWB would start up the ovens and have us all wear...( what
would bi-s wear anyway. Wouldn't be triangles would it?) but It would mean
less rights for all non-straights. I'm sure there are those who in the
interest of "protecting" my kids would find some kind of descent bigoted
family. It would mean back alley abortions again. it would mean an escalating 
the "War on Drugs" even further until warrents are superfluous. It would mean 
no respect for other peoples religion.

The point I was trying to make s i can't afford either of these bozos. I doubt
if any of us can.

Ben Gibson
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Iverson Notation (was: The War Between Us (Long))
Keywords: Just a harmless little old survey...
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:23:03 GMT

In article <36773@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
|In article <1992Aug11.185907.10697@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:
|+   Yes, probably.  You *never cease to amaze us, Kay.
|+   (memories of the 11/70 at the University of Wisconsin come to mind- one
|Come now, surely you remember RK-06 washer machine size disk drives.

   A RK06 isn't a 11/70, though (I have fond memories of the 19" racks
at Madison chockablock full of Fuji Eagles, and the occasional surprise
as a head fell off and went bouncing off a platter.)  [In fact, I've seen
more RK06s (or their larger brothers) attached to Vaxen than to PDP-11's]

   Now, a 750 would have enough surface area for some really good sex,
and a 780 would be sublime, as long as you weren't right under the 
air conditioning ductwork.  Anyone have a spare 7{5,8}0 and wish to help
lower my purity score?
                 __
   david parsons \/ orc@vpnet.chi.il.us
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Who am I anyway?
Date: 22 Aug 92 05:46:05 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy

In article <1992Aug21.120523.25629@brtph560.bnr.ca> jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
>
>Forgive me if I said "boards", I'm from an older school.  I meant, well,
>Usenet groups; hell, what else could I call them.  

Hmm, wasn't the net around before BBS's were?

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||            -- My Bloody Valentine
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Joke
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:53:16 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

I was thinking about how accepting bi-space seems to be of almost everyone
and anyone, and the following picture sprang into my mind. I thought I'd
share it since it amused me:

A green martian with too many tentaces slithers into a soc.bi bring-a-bottle
party. It says "Hi, I'm a quinti-sexual bi-species invading martian with a
diamond tipped laser pseudo-penis. Have I got the right house?" The host
replies "Sure, come right in." Then he notices the martian hasn't brought a
bottle with it, so he says "Hang on a minute, this is a bring-a-bottle
party. There's an off license just round the corner with a cash machine over
the road from it. See you in five minutes."


Well I thought it was funny,

Owen.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Subject: Re: Marraige and Apartheid
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:21:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.094541.1650@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
>The reason I object to _anyone_ engaging in a state-sponsored marraige
>involving one individual who is male and one who is female (regardless
>of their sexual orientation) is akin to the reason I object to being a
>member of a racially segregated club.  By participating in a system in
>which you allow the government to validate _your_ relationship while
>it is still unwilling to validate other legimitate relationships
>indicates to me that you do not care about my rights.  Not enough,
>anyway, to demonstrate any sort of genuine committment to them.

so is the solution to destroy all clubs?  even if 
they have value?  do good?  or is it to change the
clubs, desegregating them, redefining them, and creating 
new, better clubs which are all inclusive?  i have
been supportive of same sex marriages since i was old 
enough to be politically active (for me, 12).  i was
married to a man.  i now long to marry a woman.  i am
*pro-marriage*.  for *everyone*.  

i will fight for same sex marriages until my dying day, 
so that no-one, gay, bi, or straight will be denied that
right/privilege (depending on your point of view).  

and i will deny *no-one* of that right or privilege.  

who the hell are you to do so?  sorry, but this matters
a lot to me.  when my girlfriend and i decide to marry, 
we will do so no matter what the laws say.  and the day
it becomes legal, we will legalize it.  

>Your "analogy" to clean-air acts is silly and seems intended to
>belittle and make fun of a viewpoint which I take very seriously.  I
>object to this simply because it's typical tactic of someone who is
>more interested in poking fun and amusing themselves at the expense of
>others' than someone who has any concern for genuine change.  "Live
>and let live" is bullshit when you apply it to Apartheid, AIDS,
>Homophobia, the KKK and Rape.  And it's bullshit when you apply it
>here.  Marraige as an institution is nothing more than legalized anti-
>gay Apartheid and if you can not be bothered to make the smallest
>effort to remove blantantly homophobic situations from your own life
>than you are useless for trying to remove them from the world at
>large.

when you equate marriage and rape, (not to mention the kkk and
homophobia... all hate based societal horrors) you lose me.  i 
have experienced both, thank you very much.  if you haven't
then shut up or grow up.  you don't know what you are 
talking about.  

i just love it when college students get up and try to 
politically correct the world without having lived in ir as 
an adult yet.  

peg
-obviously pissed off

Xref: sparky soc.bi:11155 soc.motss:36507
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Christina Black])
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:17:36 GMT

|> Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON) writes:
|> 
|> >Then it will come down to the question that every American will have to ask
|> >themself. Would you rather have your taxes raised or lose some more of your 
|> >civil liberties. Great fucking choice. once again.
|> I'd rather have my taxes raised, thank you very much.

But that's not even our choice.  Bush has raised taxes, his previous
protestations to the contrary.  And Clinton has a capital gains tax cut
as part of his economic recovery program (not sure where I saw this,
I think in an SF Chronicle article on the Clinton & Bush recovery
programs).  I'm very hopeful for this election, given that the current
state of the country, after 12 years of republicans in office, negates
the republicans' usual strength -- the claim that their economic
policies are more promising.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com

"We can't all be born rich, handsome, and lucky, and that's why there's
a Democratic party." -- Zell Miller

PS I'm not sure I'm thrilled with Clinton's cg tax cut proposal, but it
does cast doubt on the "demos == taxes" assumption.
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: And the saga continues
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:13:21 GMT
Distribution: soc.bi

cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:

>>
>>Iseult - happily fantasizing about tribadic uses for her crutches.
>>And a few girls I know (Ellen, Coe, Chris and Sara) had better watch out.

>Well, just look what Iseult posts when she thinks the four of us aren't
>reading!  Methinks she had better be nice, or she may find herself on
>the unexpected end of the crutch :^)

Its not fair.  Those ... those wagons keep stealing my crutch.  Fenthe
Ang Bethan, why even Tanaquai, please come and protect me from them.

Coe is sooooooo mean.


Iseult.
From: angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Trisexual?
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:46:41 GMT
Distribution: soc

The Independent, 15th August 1992

Sir: Your diarist (12 August) asks "What is a trisexual?" I, too, once
had occasion to ask, and was told "someone who will try anything, once".

Yours faithfully, Leila Hossain, London, W14

Mmm :-) Anyone got any better definitions?

Angi
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: Re: queer brains?
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:25:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.014546.23605@wam.umd.edu> jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>Dave Ferguson (grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca) wrote:
> 
>> Y'know...this reminds me of a conversation I once had with my kinda-sorta-
>> boyfriend-but-more-like-close-friends-and-we're-not-TOTALLY-committed-but-
>> who-asked-YOU-anyway about whether homosexuality was "nature" or "nurture".
>Was his first name Sigmund, by any chance?

Well...no, although it may as well be.  He *is* very deep, and he *did* study
psychology.  Hmmmmmmm...

Daemon -- involved with a reincarnated famous dead person

-- 
+ D.C.X. Ferguson, "Daemon"          Industry, Science & Technology Canada   +
+ grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca          Policy Sector                           +
+                                    Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA                 +
+        No tax dollars were expended to bring you this message              +
Newsgroups: soc.bi