HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Alaska Volcano
Date: 22 Aug 92 05:02:05 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

Linda of the Lakelands writes:
>So.. The West Kingdom and the Principality of Oertha has truly 
>out-done any Pagentry possible at Pennsic. How many Royalty have 
>been welcomed by their populace blowing up a mountain in their honor?
 
'Tis not the first time such grandure has been seen in the West.  I
am minded of An Tir Coronet Tourney in May A.S. XV.  We were camped
in the Cascades, about 50 miles east of Madrone (Seattle). For some 
inexplicable reason, we all awoke early sunday morning, despite the 
previous evening's revels.  Throughout the morning and into the 
afternoon, we kept noticing this huge, expanding bank of deep, black 
clouds encroaching from the south -- which was passing strange, since
weather systems generally come from within a few points of west in 
that part of the world.  Finally that afternoon, closing court was 
interrupted and an anouncement was made (if I recall correctly, by 
his Highness, Prince Edward Ziffran):  That was no cloud bank; that 
was the top thousand feet or so of Mt. St. Helens.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Instructions for ancient kilt - feileadh mor
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:56:48 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Moreach NicMaolain (Suze Hammond) writes:

>In period Highland men wore this fairly short, and with no attempt to cover 
>what we would consider immodest

Are you sure?  All of the recent books I have seen dealing with
Scottish costume pretty much debunk the "wearin of kilts goes back 
to the wee hours of creation" idea.  They generally date the
introduction of the kilt/belted plaid to the early 1600's, or
possibly the very late 1500's.  (This based on a written report
of Scottish mercenaries who arrived in Ireland in the 1580's wearing
"cloaks over their belts."  There are no illustrations of this, however,
and whether this is a description of what we would call a kilt seems
open to interpretation.)   

Do you know of other evidence for kilts being worn in period?  

Many SCAers with Scottish personae will insist that wearing kilts
does, in fact, go very fair back, but I have never found one with
evidence to prove it.  Many Scots seem to take a (no pun intended) 
cavalier attitude toward documentation and dating of costumes.  
One amusing example occured in a conversation I overheard at a recent event:

Non Scot: That's an interesting costume.  How far back does that go?

Scotswoman: Very far back.  In fact, it's still being worn today.

:-)

-- Nicholas van Leyden
    



From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Combat Archery
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:41:42 -0500

perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU writeth:

PE> My suggestion, which would not require anyone actually *on* the archery
PE> range, would be to find someone with a good camera with an accurate
PE> shutter speed (there are ways of testing this)

...which requires developing time.  Or if you manage to find such good
precision on an instant camera, it sounds expensive to this layman.

My suggestion?  Fire at a spring-loaded target, which must compress the spring
no more than a given amount.  If the target moves back too far, it dings a
bell or something.  Shouldn't be very difficult to make at all, and can be
reused at no cost.  No running out of film either.
From: mikes@moose.cs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:54:02 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <714068718.F00001@therose.pdx.com> Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>In a message to All <08-17-92 00:12> David Schroeder wrote:
>
>DS>  Do Not Cross" this tape read "Caution -- Hard Hat Area."
>
>Y'know that is *almost* acceptable (for emergency use, anyway). Maybe groups 

At Pennsics XVII-XVIII-XIX we literally used miles of the stuff.  The main
problem is that any barrier is torn down almost immediately, and therefore
barriers have to be put up as close as possible to the starting time of
the battle, which means something like yellow tape which is easy to
handle.
-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:30:02 GMT

In article <713887374.F00002@therose.pdx.com> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
>
>This (and other points you brought up) is why I told William *first* to rely 
>heavily on the SCA's rules of parental permission for any 
>possibly-dangerous sports. To weed out the very ones who are only there to 
>swagger around with weapons and no common sense. Once they have to go to 
>their parents (and remember William is in Europe where custom is somewhat 
>different Mundanely) I believe quite a few of the potential problems will 
>drop out after Mom and Dad read the official, somewhat scary-sounding 
>releases and premission forms.  :-)

Yes, I guess those forms even scared me, though not nearly as much as my
first bout! 8j)
Your points are all so very good, but I must ask, how can one tell the
truely interested and responsable youth, as opposed to the energetic, 
self centered youth. Both display similar actions in their early days, 
and one can  only tell after one had dropped out, what the other is
like. IMHO, this is a problem we faced with a group of students. We 
sadly ended up with some poor hangers-on. I'm still waiting for some
of them to get their own garb, and lay off of Gold Key! ;)
Is there any real rule of thumb to see these little quirks between 
generic 'good' and generic 'bad' kids who both display the same
intial enthousiasm? ie Who do we foster, and who do we try to cull
(if anyone)?

What 'different' customs? I come from a Brit. Family, so I might not 
have really noticed the difference.

>young) prospects. Boredom will cull some more. Since these kids aren't there 
>because their parents dragged them along, they won't be forced to stay if 
>their interest wanes. And if it doesn't wane, they are good SCA material.

Agreed.

Sebastian
amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Innane Blather
Subject: Re: Town Battle at Pennsic
Keywords: Town Battle
Reply-To: cn0n@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:02:39 GMT

In article <9208211303.AA19280@pilot.njin.net> lecin@pilot.njin.NET ("Matthew  
J. Lecin") writes:
> The inspiration of my wife, Jessa D'Avondale, was to open a tavern in the  
town
> battle.  Baron Seamus O'Carolan and I captured and occupied one of the huts
> until the first "hold" where water bearer's were allowed in - at which point
> Jessa and an assistant ran in with the cooler full of drinks, chips,  
pretzels,
> etc.  The merriment continued until the Eastern line fell, and we had to flee
> the field.
> 


Actually this is a wonderful idea.  Discussion around the fire the
evening after the town battle consisted of how to make the 'taking'
of the huts more enticing.  Suggestions were made that included
planting 'flags' that represent 'loot', and each hut being holding
different loot, Armor in the Armory, gold, ect...

Certain 'loot' would be assigned a point value, and at the end of a
previously specified time (say one hour) the team holding the most
points for loot wins.  

This would encourage the taking, and defending of the huts.

What do you think?

Etain an Laochais, Die Schwartzr Legion, Barony March of the Debatable Lands,  
Aethelmarc, East Kingdom

--
  ***********************************************************************
  cin - reply: cn0n@cs.cmu.edu - DoD# 0397 - '82 Yamaha 650 Heritage Spec.
      "It's not the years, it's the mileage" - Indiana Jones
  ***********************************************************************
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:17:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714160741.F00001

AS>  From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
AS>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AS>
AS>  Your points are all so very good, but I must ask, how can one tell
AS>  the
AS>  truely interested and responsable youth, as opposed to the energetic,
AS>  self centered youth. Both display similar actions in their early
AS>  days,
AS>  sadly ended up with some poor hangers-on. I'm still waiting for some
AS>  of them to get their own garb, and lay off of Gold Key! ;)

The best way to weed out the selfish ones is to give them *work* to do.

As for your Gold Key "problem", just set a limit on how many times you
can use Gold Key, and stick to it...like "Gold Key can only be used three
times, and then you must have your own garb."

Moreach
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pavillion Fabric
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714411360.F00002

In a message to All <08-19-92 19:25> Doug Young wrote:

DY>  From: doug@telly.on.ca (Doug Young)
DY>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
DY>
DY>  At PENNSIC this year ASGARD (Price.Duke.Sir) Baldor's Household set up
DY>  some amazing gates, with all Pavillions within.
DY>
DY>  These pavillions were all sewn from tent nylon (a reasonable substitute
DY>  for the silk likely used in period)
DY>
DY>  Do any of you along this river know of a source for this material at
DY>  a reasonable price.  We probaly want 60 in wide, about 100 yards.

I'd do some checking around the nearest large city. Here (Portland, Oregon) 
we have a co-op that sells mountaineering gear and one of the things that 
they carry is nylon webbing *and* various weights of nylon fabric such as 
you are looking for. You may have such an place near you. 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Unfortunate headlines
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:42:41 GMT

In article <713887374.F00004@therose.pdx.com> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
>
>At>  We got a nice quarter-page write up, although we got a
>At>  chuckle out of her headline:
>At>
>At>    "Society For Creative Anacronism Discourages Jousting on Horseback"
>
>I imagine she was just as surprised at the headline as you. Headlines are 
>almost never written by the author of the article. This tends to 
>sometimes give them a very surreal tone, because the headline editor homed 
>in on some minor aspect that caught his/her eye...
>
>This also explains the sometimes badly stretched attempts at alliteration in 
>headlines, (especially the sports page) and inappropriate humor above advice 
>columns. I believe this newspaper tradition comes from the need for the 
>headline to fill a specific amount of space that isn't determined until the 
>layout is done, long after the article is written. It results in the 
>occasional "howler"... ;-)
>
I'll vouch for this, as I have worked on a (student) paper. The
silliness factor gets greater as the hour gets later. 
Two memorable ones were "Wong wive wecycling" due to the author's name
(Wong) and her extereme (and good) views on recycling. Another was
"Foolish feller flattened by fast Felletwood flatbed" The man was killed
when a tractor trailer hit him,.
*Needless to say (I hope) these headlines got some chuckles, then were
thrown away in favor for titles like: "Recycling programme insufficient
on campus" and "Student killed in pedestrian accident" or something
similar. 
See, we _do_ think about what is appropriate. 

Sebastian
amlsmith@morgan

PS Are there really this few _not_ at Pennsic! <sigh>


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pears@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Arnold N Pears)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:51:17 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <ewright.714162303@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
>Vajk writes:
>Lighting is another consideration.  If you expect people to be doing things 
>after dark, well, tiki torches and firelight just aren't adequate for fine
>work like embroidery and sewing.

Does this mean that all such work in the period we are concerned with 
was accomplished during daylight hours?

Does anyone have any supporting or disproving evidence?

>-- Nicholas van Leyden

Arenwald von Hagenberg.
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arnold Pears.  Computer Sci Dept		ACSNET : pears@latcs1.oz
La Trobe Uni, Bundoora 3083.			"Well here we all are then."
    Ph (03) 479-1144						-ME
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Dagged paisley thing
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:30:28

 ANM> tastefulness can be pinned on the puritans...  why 
 ANM> is the gold lame paisley
 ANM> dagged hemmed whatever tacky and not pretty?  i'm 
 ANM> sure whoever it was that wore
 ANM> the thing was quite pleased with it...
Well, I'm quite sure that all that purchased one have been happy with 
 it.  (trying hard to remember exact details from half-remembered 
 picture.....and not quite making it)  I don't remember that they got 
 all the details right for a houpelande, which would seem to be the 
 model.  The big problems were A) gold lame doesn't do a good job of 
 reproducing cloth of gold, and B) so far as *I* *currently* know, 
 paisley's ain't period or at least not for houppelandes.....
     Museum Replica's name has gotten a bit misleading when they started 
 in the clothing line.  They make adequate-but-overpriced SCA and 
 RenFaire clothing.  Museum-level stuff it ain't.
     I don't mind the way they've sold out to the fantasy-folk who 
 have bucks (in producing obvious fantasy blades).  They always tell you 
 in the picture what you're getting, whether it's the Gandalf blade or 
 the Roman short-sword.  If they made it up, they tell you so up-front.
     Hmmmm, there's quite a few places in here that should be followed 
 up with :^).  Insert freely, as none of this is meant in a particularly 
 serious mode.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:14:55 GMT


>> The final attendance count was just under 7300 (I think) and the
> 
>Bummer.  There must have been many 'holes' in the sequence this year as the
>highest badges issued went over 8200...

The final tally of waivers handed in at Troll was 8200 and change (29 I
think). To my knowledge there were no holes. Troll and the Coopers are *very*
careful about handing out the tags in the proper order and accounting for any
that don't get used. Especially since we've now gone to computerized tracking
of people. We set a standard this year for how it will be done in the future,
and this standard will be improved as time goes on.

>> The Dark Horde had contracted to guard the gates of the Eastrealm
>> camp...  And nothing in the contract said _where_ they had to guard
>> them...  So the gates ended up in Horde Camp, making them _much_ easier
>> to guard...

They never learn, even when they're told to read the fine print. ;-) Duke
Sir Kane (whose name translates in Mongolian into Flu Fi) had his white belt
ransomed by some of my Brothers in the Moritu. The ransom he suggested was
enough beer for the Society, not just the Moritu. I hope Kane brings a BIG
truck next year.

>> Someone or some group constructed a picture of an early period horse
>> the size of a football field on the side of the hill overlooking
>> the battlefield...  It looked like the "lines" were drawn with
>> 60"-wide white fabric of some sort and the effect was quite impressive.
> 
>Pity some &*#@%$ vandalized it before the aerial photos were taken... :(

Yes, it was supposed to replicate the Uffington chalk horse. A worthy effort
on the part of the group that did it, and woe betide the vandals who ruined
that effort. Pinheads all, I say, and if they be found should be made to
serve some penance that will benefit either they're local group or next year's
Pennsic as a whole.

In Service,

Corun
From: kim@babbage.csus.edu (Kim Conway)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Feast of St. Genesius (Caid) - HELP !!!
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:58:59 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: California State University, Sacramento

I need to get information on the Feast of St. Genesius, happening in Caid next
Saturday (the 22nd). I know it is in Orange County but that is all. If you
can help, please e-mail me or post to the network. I am leaving for L.A. on
Wednesday night and would like to be able to go to an event while I an down
there.


Thanks in advance,
 ______                     
                            Tara of the Clan O'Conaleigh
 --/ __.  __  __.           The West               
(_/ (_/|_/ (_(_/|_          (MKA : Kimberley Conway; kim@babbage.csus.edu)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:26:06 EDT
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Tournament
 <1992Aug20.180516.23639@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

Cragin asks about the possibility of burning the huts at the town battle.

I walked around the town a bit before the battle started, and asked a couple
of marshals if we could run up and spray-paint the walls orange and consider
them on fire.  The answer?   "They're stone huts".

                       Therion-who-thinks-he's-god-and-who-died-ignominiously-
                       in-the-town-battle-when-he-pushed-just-a-bit-too-far-
                       past-that-wall-that-was-shielding-his-right-side-from-
                       the-spears.
From: RGARRETT@ccnode.colorado.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic Town-Battle
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:51:08 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings From Nasir!

	Cragin writes of his views on the Town Battle held at Pennsic this 
year...

	Torching the Huts: I think this would be a great addition to the
scenario! I like the possibility of one of the fighters telling the marshall 
of the hut that "The hut is torched!", or something similar. I think that 
smoke bombs of ANY sort are a BAD thing to be used on the field. There is too
much room for danger when real, live combustibles are concerned.

	Nobody Used the Huts: Nope!! The huts are a place for people to go to
die-to be blunt! In the Middle strategy meeting, we all basically agreed that
if we had any chance at all to win, we should stay out of the huts. I remember
that there were, indeed, several huts occupied by Eastern troops when my units
(Outlands and Calontir) finally broke through the Eastern lines. We had no 
problem taking the huts one by one because, with only one, small doorway, the
units inside had limited access to fight the attackers. The attackers have a 
basically infinite amount of people they can send against a finite amount of 
defenders.

Anybody else have any ideas on the Town Battle and how to make it better?? 
	(Not that it was broken in any way-I had a great time!!)

							nasir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic courtesy
Date: 10 Aug 92 07:24:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.713594709.F00004

In a message to All <08-09-92 05:22> Stephen Whitis wrote:

SW>  From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
SW>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

SW>  LE> BTW. Your list of the ways you were paraphrased contains statements
SW>  LE> that I  do not recall anyone making. Particularly the one about
SW>  LE> fiolk not belonging  anywhere. Of course, you are obviously
SW>  LE> paraphrasing here...
SW>
SW>  Are you attempting to call me a liar?  Or are yuou confessing that your
SW>  memory is short and selective?

Neither. I stated that *I* did not recall such statements. The quotes you 
have included show where your paraprases came from, and that they are 
reasonable paraphrases.

My memory is not especially short. But I do not have weeks of this to search 
thru either. As for being selective, *everyone's* memory is selective. If it 
wasn't you'd be *buried* in details that you don't need.

The comment about paraphrasing was merely intended to remind you that you 
too were paraphrasing and that it is not inherently a bad thing.

further correspondence to:

Leonard Erickson                      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]                         70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51         Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred) 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:32:37 GMT

perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU writes:
>>No radar gun needed.  The standard ballistic measuring devices utilize
>>the conservation of momentum to determine velocity.  What that means
>>is you fire the projectile into a block of favorite material and do
>>the momentum calculations.  Simple such gizmos consist of a blob of
>>putty on a pendulum; measure the swing height after firing, etc.
>
>(note in passing: *I* wouldn't want to be the one to go out onto the
>archery field to do these measurements... but on to the main point)

[lots of stuff with cameras deleted]

>I suspect that any ballistic measuring device
>portable enough to set up on an archery range would have a hard time
>beating this level of precision and accuracy unless someone wants to cough
>up some big bucks for a really fancy model.

I don't think you have the visual image of what I'm talking about.  A
pendulum ballistic measuring device is something as simple as a sack
of playdough hanging on a string with a small device around the top
that measures how much arc the string describes when hit.  The small
device is something like a toothpick that the string pushes and
measures max arc of the swing.

The archer stands all of 3 feet away and shoots it.  Go look at the
arc, do the calculation.  What's so dangerous about this?  What's so
expensive about this?  It costsa lot less than a camera and strobe,
requires no electricity and you don't have to screw around trying to
fine tune your reflexes when to snap the photo and wait for flim
development.  You could build one of my gizmos for less than $20
including the 4-function solar powered calculator for the number
crunching.  It could fit in a small box or bag.  To use it, just hang
it up anywhere convienient and start shooting.

Hummm, it just occured to me you also have to have a scale to weigh
the arrows as well.  However, you have to have this piece of equipment
no matter what method you use for measuring speed/momentum.
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com