HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pieper@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (John Pieper)
Subject: Re: Yes/Tales
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:18:35 GMT

In article <30x12!d@rpi.edu> battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.082911.10158@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, pieper@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (John Pieper) writes:
>
>|> attention span of the average listener.  It must be admitted that the average
>|> "rock" fan has not been educated to appreciate song structures more compli-
>|> cated than verse/verse/bridge/solo/verse, or to notice that (for instance)
>|> the bass line _here_ is actually taken from the melodic theme of another
>|> section _there_.  On the other hand, those who can appreciate such things
>|> are often too snobbish to listen to anything labelled "rock".  So it goes...
>
>I have often been accused of being a musical snob along with my
>"art/symph head" friends.  But would you fault van Gogh for not
>being able to appreciate a velvet Elvis protrait?  Not that I 
>compare myself to VanGogh but there comes a point in every 'serious'
>listener/musician's development where they learn to discern crap
>from quality.  The people I have found that enjoy art rock the most
>are *usually* those with some musical background. agree? disagree?

Guess I should clarify.  I certainly don't consider either of us a
musical snob in the sense I was referring to.  My own tastes cross quite
a few genre lines, with the common factor being that whatever I listen
to has to have something special going for it.  That may mean complexity
and musical sophistication, but it could instead be honest emotion and
spirit.  That's telling crap from quality.  But there are some people
(not _all_ of them mind you) in genres where complexity and sophistication
are common coin (e.g. classical or jazz) who would be in a fine position
to appreciate what Yes and the rest of the symphonic crowd have put down,
but won't bring themselves to cross the line.

Then again, maybe they just don't know it's out there... 
-- 
John Pieper                         pieper@ucsu.colorado.edu
Dept. of Physics                   "Any deviation will result
University of Colorado at Boulder   in termination" -- the Mgt.
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Re: great keyboard players
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:40:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.153807.20467@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, scf11@cl.cam.ac.uk (S.C. Farrar) writes:
|> Keywords: 
|> 
|> >Being a keyboard player myself, I think I am required to be a Yes fan, since
|> >Rick Wakeman is the single greatest keyboard player in the whole of creation
|> >(with POSSIBLE exception to Keith Emerson).
|> 
|> Hmmmmm, I think that Tony Banks (Genesis) and Chick Corea may have something
|> to say about that !


Eduardo DelBarrio and Kieth Jarrett would too.
and so would Rick Wakeman!
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: doug@tellabs.com (Doug David)
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Followup-To: ME
Organization: None whatsoever
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:00:23 GMT

In article <WHITE.92Nov17170550@hydro.mps.ohio-state.edu> white@hydro.mps.ohio-state.edu (The Master) writes:
>
>	However, this debate is pointless since there is a better key-
>board player than either Emerson or Wakeman ;-)  If you haven't listened
>to Gentle Giant, check out Kerry Minnear's work.  This guy not only can
>play was well as the two aformentioned giants, but he also sings, com-
>poses, and plays a variety of other instruments (as do other GG members).
>
Too bad that such a talented player is stuck in such a mundane band as
Gentle Giant. Playing as well doesn't mean a hill of beans. If you play
garbage well, it's still garbage.
-- 
   (    )   __ (     )   (     )  )         )                      
) ((   ((  / / ))   ((   ))   (( ((     (  ((
   )) ____/ / _____  __  __  _____)) ) ((   ))        
  ( (/ ___ / /___ / / / / / /___ /( ((  )) ((  )       
 ) )/ /__// //__// / /_/ / //__//))  ))( (_) )((   Doug David
(( /_____/ /____/ /_____/ /___ /((  ((  )    (_))  doug@tellabs.com
 ))__________________________//  ))  ))(       (  
( /__________________________/  ( ( (           )
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: First posting?
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:13:53 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

In article <1992Nov15.174924.27036@daimi.aau.dk>, lhp@daimi.aau.dk (Lasse Hiller|e Petersen) writes:
|> eyethink@cse.ucsc.edu (Carl A. Wescott) writes:
|> >...or maybe about rock groups that have experimentally
|> >played with orchestras (ie Deep Purple in the 60s,
|> >Uriah Heep on /Salisbury/, etc.)
|> 
|> Shouldn't _Electric Light Orchestra_ be mentioned in such a list?
|> Just a thought...

Did they ever actually play *with* an orchestra?  I mean, they *were* an
orchestra, so to speak.  Serious question here, not trying to shoot you
down or anything.

"Deep Purple in the 60s".... *sigh*.  "April" is one great song.  I have all
of DP's early stuff that's available on CD (and a couple of old albums still),
and I could listen to them for hours.

On this thread, what about Rick Wakeman's stuff?  "Journey to the Centre of
the Earth" is what really turned me on to rock music with symphonic
backgrounds.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark.  |
|I'm livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks. |
|                             --Bonnie Tyler       |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: turbulence
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:32:42 GMT

How does turbulence compare to steve's other albums? Is it popy or arty
or what?  reccommendations...
From: andreoni@lizardo.WPI.EDU (Marco Andreoni)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Listener's guide to Yes
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:14:08 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lizardo.wpi.edu
Originator: andreoni@lizardo.WPI.EDU


In article <fineston-191192185801@je-college-node.net.yale.edu>, fineston@pop.cis.yale.edu (Jason Finestone) writes:
|>   In response to the 'Yes newbie' posts, I would like to share with all the
|> recipe for loving Yes that I discovered years ago.  When I first bought a
|> CD player, I decided that I would make my first CD purchase, Big Generator.
|>  I had heard it at a friend's house, who was already well into every phase
|> of Yes.  It sounded great to me on this digital darling, and thus my
|> decision was made.  The next day, I bought 90210, and listened to the two
                                               huh!!!
|> CDs non-stop for weeks.  

I personally don't like this album since I don't particularly enjoy Mr. Luke Perry
 on drums.  But I have to admit his sister is hot!!!! :) :)

I think you are talking about 90125 (just to be picky).

Cheers,

			Marco

|
|>   /********  ^\**************************\   Jason Finestone    |Earl's
|>   /*******/<o>\\********fnord************\   Yale University    |  COMFORT 
|>   /******/     \\************************\                      \  STATION
|>   /*****/       \\***********************\                       --------->
|>   /**ALL HAIL DISCORDIA******************\                           |
|>    ---------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:43:31 GMT

In article <BxxszJ.CAy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> memmer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John Memmer) writes:
>
>How about a list of top percussionists for this topic? I would also include
>John "Bonzo" Bonham and Dave Weckl...


	A couple years ago, I had the opportunity to go backstage after a
	Robert Plant show.  I honestly don't remember the drummer's name, but
	I will never forget the following joke he told me, reprinted here for
	the amusement of  all:


	"How many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

	"20 - 1 to screw in the bulb, and 19 to say how much better John
	Bonham would've done it!"


Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com		slave@work
			emrys@cellar.org			god@home

"Stand, on hills of long forgotten yesterdays..."
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: pieper@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (John Pieper)
Subject: Re: Yes
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:19:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.155203.10482@cs.tulane.edu> butterwo@cs.tulane.edu (Blake Butterworth) writes:
>music, I like a big variety, but there are really only a few artists that I
>currently listen to alot.  Those would be:  Rush, Pink Floyd, Metallica (I'm
>not talking about just the new album either), and Steve Howe (Yes I know its
>only one album, but Turbulance (sp?) is probably one of my favorite albums
>right now).  I like really longer, instrumental, epic, -whatever- albums.

OK, put me down as out of touch, but can I take this to mean that Steve Howe
has a new record out?  Or is there one that I missed?
-- 
John Pieper                         pieper@ucsu.colorado.edu
Dept. of Physics                   "Any deviation will result
University of Colorado at Boulder   in termination" -- the Mgt.
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Dying?  I hope not!
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:36:51 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Nov16.213354.7380@lclark.edu> daniel@lclark.edu (Daniel Snodgrass) writes:
>
>BTW, is this genre dying or is it just not commercial enough to play on
>the radio anymore?

I think it lacks one quality that would get it radio play:  It doesn't
sound like a Energizer rabbit on steroids when you crank the bass up
to compression.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Rolling Stone
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:57:41 GMT

When I was first getting into Art/symph rock I found the
Rolling Stone Record guides to be very informative.  They
are quite consistant in trashing some of the greatest music
ever recorded (tales, free hand, etc.) while praising shlock
(tom petty).  I found that any art rock group which they said
sucked was a group that should be put on my "find it" list
and any art rock group they praised (roxy music) was a group to 
avoid.  What is not surprising is that of the 30 or so music 
reviewers that wrote the books only two played an instrument.
From: IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Awaken shall cure..
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:20:07 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

For all of those who are "into" tales - please refer to the
track "Awaken" on Going for the One (and ignore thecover)
- to me, this is what yes is all about, it has it all!
Great atmoshere - incredible playing - a wealth of Ideas
all strewn together undera higher order (via Jon)to produce
a true masterpiecein the archives of rock. This has spirit,
where Tales generally lacks in a good dose of this "Yesspirit"
- If you don't agree,  or whatever thoughts you might have to
offer- send me a note!

"...where can I be..?"
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: mdwalker@unix.amherst.edu (MATTHEW DANIEL WALKER)
Subject: Really BAD art rock
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:39:19 GMT

I recently had the chance to hear a song called "Magna Carta" by the California
group Magellan.  It was quite possibly the most absurd song that I'd ever 
heard.  Can someone recommend some more really horrible art rock to me? 
(Sorry if I've offended any Magellan fans!)

MD
From: ramsay@math.ubc.ca (Keith Ramsay)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Yes
Date: 21 Nov 1992 04:24:48 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: gauss.math.ubc.ca

Speaking of Yes... a frivolous aside.... For *years* I have wondered
what one certain word is. Perhaps someone here would know:

          In and around the lake
          [Mumbles] come out of the sky and they stand there!

Martians? Mamas? Mormons? :-) Thanks in advance.

Keith Ramsay
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Monahan)
Subject: Re: Yes/Tales
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:08:14 GMT

In article <2937@anprda.atson.asahi-np.co.jp> dji@atson.asahi-np.co.jp (David J. Iannucci) writes:
>I put it to you all that Yes' TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS is nothing
>short of the greatest "piece" of music composed in this century.
	I second that.  It's nothing short of orgasmic.
)Why is this
>album so thoroughly overlooked?  Is it that your average jerk doesn't
>have the attention span to handle it?
	YES!!!!! (No Pun intended)


-- 
	The Analog Person (analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)
	Suffering is the origin of conciousness.- Dostoyevsky
	I want to look at life, in the available light-Neil Peart
	A little fascism every now and then is good for you!- Matt J. Martin
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:57:48 EST
From: <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: turbulence
 <1992Nov21.232204.28181@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>

Steve also "stole" a lick of his in "Ritual", where he took a theme from
"Close to the Edge" and played it and meandered it and modified it and...

Slainte mhath,

Mike
---
*************************************************************
*\  / ___  __ *  Mike Weintraub, aka Jvi on IRC (usually)   *
* \/  ___ |_ `*  mweintr@american.edu  "Poli Sci and Proud" *
* /   ___   \ *  The American University, Washington, DC    *
*/          / *  "Courageous convictions will drag the      *
*      \___/  *  dream into existence" -Rush, 'Vital Signs' *
*************************************************************
*    Brought to you by the letter 'M' and the number '3'    *
*************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour)
Subject: Triumvirate Question
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:21:24 GMT

I used to listen to Triumvirate a lot. They started out pretty hot, but
the albums got (IMHO) pretty awful towards the end. Still ole' Jurgen
Fritz was a pretty good keyboard player. My question is, where is he
now? Did he do anything after T. ? Is he still active somewhere?

-bs-
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:47:58 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <92322.042124MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu writes:
>Who do you think is better? Wakeman or Emerson (is there someone else out there
>that compares to either of these virtuosi that should be here also, I don't
>know of any...) in your opinion...

Oh lord!  Here's a topic that will get us all flaming each other by
the end of the week!

>Please qualify your statement by stating which is either your
>favourite player who you think is technically better 

Well, I think they're about equal when it comes to performance.  As
keyboardists, they both can play incredible stuff.

As composers, Wakeman definitely has the edge.  While Emerson does
very well in the Jazz department (eg: "The Three Fates: Clotho,
Lachesis, Atropos"), he can't develop one theme properly in classical
stuff.  For example, in "Piano Concerto No. 1", he changes motifs so
many times that the listener is never able to grasp any meaning in the
piece.  One instant he's baroque, the next he's neo-modern jazz.

Wakeman, on the other hand, has the ability to take one or two themes
and build on them until nothing more can be built.  And within a
piece, everything is consistent.  As an example, listen to any track
off of "Suite Of Gods", especially "Hercules".  Or to the themes in
"King Arthur".

Wakeman's style is also more diverse.  I've heard him to classical,
new-age, jazz, rock, and many other styles.  All are done quite well.
Emerson, on the other hand, is only at home with jazz and rock, and
most of his rock stuff is accompaniment for Greg Lake's compositions.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: jonathan@vort.cuc.ab.ca (Jonathan Levine)
Subject: Re: First posting?
Organization: n. Organizing or being organized; organized body or system or society.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:57:54 GMT


FM (the Canadian one) has put out four or so albums in the past 15 (approx)
years.  The disk with Phasers on Stun was called Black Noise, and featured
Nash the Slash on the electric mandolin and electric violin.  He split to
go solo, and was replaced by Ben Mink, who is presently, I think, in KD lang's
band now.  That lineup recorded City of Fear and a direct to disk project.
I think they disbanded for about ten years after that, and when they reformed
(again with Nash) they did some shamelessly commercial stuff that I've never
listened to.  Check out Nash's solo material in better used record bins
near you.

J

-- 
Jonathan Levine (voice) 403-686-0473 | Digital Alternatives      (Calgary AB)
                (fax)   403-686-1254 | Virtual  Universe         (Calgary AB)
uucp:        jonathan@vort.cuc.ab.ca | Survival Research Laboratories (SF CA)

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: tiverson@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Thor Iverson)
Subject: Re: Yes
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:14:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.155203.10482@cs.tulane.edu> butterwo@cs.tulane.edu (Blake Butterworth) writes:

>I like really longer, instrumental, epic, -whatever- albums.
>Something that I can really get into.  (that's why I thought that Tales...
>might be good, but I've never heard it though).

Well, you might get into it, but I'm one of those people who doesn't like it.
If you like longer pieces, go for _Close To The Edge_, and _Relayer_, and
if you still want more then get _Tales_.  _Fragile_, _The Yes Album_,
and _Going For The One_ all have some great long pieces on them, as
well, but there are more short songs on those albums.

But don't sweat it, you'll have a blast hearing this stuff for the
first time (I remember the first time I heard "Awaken"...yow...)

>Blake

Thor Iverson

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: roth@csoadm.enet.dec.com (Lee Roth)
Subject: King Crimson
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:52:43 GMT


I'd like to vote King Crimson's "Court of the Crimson King" as an 'honorable
mention'. Still one of my favorite 'symphonic rock' tunes. Obvious vocals
by Greg Lake... BTW- whatever happened to Robert Fripp?

Lee (old King Crimson, YES, ELP fan)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Lee Roth  N8JQY                         Digital Equipment Corporation
roth@csoadm.enet.dec.com                
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk (Andy J Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Rock turned Classical
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:55:20 GMT
Organization: Henley Management College, UK

In article <20jq36+@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.224748.22248@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Shepherd) writes:

>>
>>Hi.  So here's the question we've all been waiting for.  What do people
>>think about those albums where a rock bands 'greatest hits' are redone
>>into classical music?  I know of a few where David Palmer and the Royal
>>Philharmonic does Pink Floyd...
>
>One of the truely scariest albums I own.
>I am a large PF fan. This album of PF music spooked me. Its far to
>reminiscint of 'Muzak' rather than 'classicisized' (hell, its a word now :)
>Pink Floyd. PF is classical enough all by themselves :)
>r.

This album is IMHO brilliant!  The music has all the haunting
qualities of the originals, but somehow different.  There is a
instrumental break in the middle of 'Goodbye Blue Sky' that fits
perfectly with the song when played in it's entirety, but is
unrecogniseable when played on it's own!

Andy
-- 
********************************************************************
* Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk       * Henley Management College, UK   * 
********************************************************************
* "...And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space *
* Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth." - Monty Python       *
********************************************************************
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: And the third (and maybe fourth) Yes keyboardists:
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:58:32 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <92324.192840LPR100@psuvm.psu.edu> LPR100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Jobson? If you count him, he would be the fifth keyboardist, not the
>fourth. Geoff Downes was the Fourth.

Oops.  I can't believe I forgot that!  And Drama is my favorite album!

>Also, Vangelis apparently sat in on a few rehearsals but didn't
>fit in. Anyone else do the same?

Didn't he also record one Union track with Jon?  He never quite joined
the band, though.  I believe they were considering him before the
Buggles moved in to do Drama.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Let's not leave out the one and only GENESIS!!! :)
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:08:57 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: kjc7435@ultb

Symphonic rock eh?  Let's not leave out Genesis....also, the Electric
Light Orchestra, the Moody Blues, and King Crimson...

K. Cater.
e-mail:"kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Art Bears
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:51:43 GMT

Has anyone ever heard of the Art Bears?
Any fans?
They are so dark it makes me shivver!!!

how about Univers Zero?
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Queensryche - classical background
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:14:38 GMT

I know that Geoff Tate, lead vocalist of Queensryche, was originally
trained to be an opera singer. The band has made use of symphonic
arrangements and styles. Does anybody know the musical backgrounds
of the other band members?


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic