HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: UI Benfits Cut
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 01:30:55 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: na
Organization: Thibault & Friends

In article <1992Dec23.235045.5253@sol.UVic.CA> 
(Dennis Manke) writes: 

> Why should taxes rise? Currently there is a whole lot of people
> (self employed) who get away without paying for UIC which as you
> have recognized is a welfare system and not an insurance.

        You gloss over a very important point: Self-employed people
        don't _pay_ UIC because they can't _collect_ UIC. I paid UIC
        for twenty five years so that a bunch of Newfie fishermen
        could play kick-the-dog for half of every year. Now I'm
        self-employed and it doesn't matter whether I've got any money
        coming in or not, there's no way I'll ever benefit from the
        thousands of dollars I've kicked into the system. What I've
        never been able to figure out is how a fisherman gets to be
        classified as other than self-employed.

        As to welfare: did you catch the response of the "Somali
        community leader" after nine Somali "refugees" were caught
        cheating the welfare system? He said it was a terrible shame,
        and that these people would have "to learn to live on what the
        government gives them; just like every other Canadian."

        This happened a few weeks after a half dozen West Indians
        arrived at Pearson and the first thing they asked the
        immigration agent was if one of them could use the phone. When
        the agent asked if they wanted to contact friends, they said
        no, they wanted to contact the lady who had their money. As it
        turns out, what they had on a well-worn slip of paper was the
        number of a welfare office and the name of one of the workers.

        Seems to me that if we put a little less into welfare, Canada
        wouldn't be so attractive to the world's freeloaders.

        Cheers,
                Marc

---
 Marc Thibault        |  All we are saying
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  is give Global Warming a chance..
 CIS:71441,2226       |
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |  Oxford Mills, Ontario

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.0

mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh
AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg
PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+
=HLnv
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Legalized Discrimination in Quebec
Date: 24 Dec 92 16:00:10 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Dec17.112132.7592@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
]English canadians whose parents landed here after 26th August, 1977 are
]NOT allowed to attend publicly funded English schools in this province. :-(

Makes sense to me. Why the hell would anyone immigrate to a
francophone society to live in english. It the pursuit of the
imperialistic european behaviour. It's the heritage of centuries of
colonianism. Individuals think that the society must adapt to them
rather than the opposite.

]Another English school (St. Kevins), it was announced last night, is to
]be closed. :-(

Sniff. Very relevant. What if I start to name all the french schools
that close in Canada, or even in Quebec?

]Quebec has less than 10% english mother tongue population!

Really? I tought it was more thatn that. Anyways, it furhter prove my point.

]] What "oppresive" law? The law that says that immigrants into a francophone
]] province must go to french school?
]
]Yes - that's one of them!

I have a strange  feeling of deja-vu...

]The law that says immigrants must go to a French school violates the
]U.N. declaration of fundamental human rights and freedoms in that it
]denies parents the right to choose the kind of education that shall be
]given to their children. :-(

To my knowledge, it doesn't include language. The U.N. declaraion does
not say that the State must provide english education to immigrants.

]Why should franco citizens be treated differently from "vieux-souche" Quebec
]anglo citizens?

They aren't.

]Why should franco immigrants be treated differently from anglo immigrants?

They aren't: they all must attend school in the language of the
society they live in.

]Why should their be any discrimination against "immigrants" at all?

There is no discrimination againts immigrants. Schooling is in the
language of the country. Anglo-quebecois have a priviledge however to
send their kids to english schools.
-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Nous les colonises (etait Re: Welcome to Quebec/repressed li
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:36:54 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <18DEC92.13771437.0082@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
]Voulez-vous dire que tous les francophones sont plus tolerants que
]tous les anglophones?  Il me semble evident que c'est faux.  Voulez-
]vous dire que le francophone moyen est plus tolerant que l'anglophone
]moyen?  Il se peut que ce soit vrai, mais il me semble qu'une telle
]donnee est parfaitement inutile.  Commment allez-vous vous en servir?
]Si vous me rencontrez, vous direz-vous:  "C'est un anglo.  Il doit
]etre intolerant."?

Je suis pas mal d'accord. Sauf que, si on accepte que en moyenne les
francophones sont plus tolerants que les anglophones (je ne dis pas
que c'est vrai), ce n'est pas totalement inutile. C'est inutile pour
les francophones pour les raisons donnes par M. Box. Ca peut meme etre
nuisible pour les francophones intolerants qui utiliseront l'argument
pour legitimer leur intolerance. Ca peut etre tres utile cependant
pour des anglophones intolerants qui se voient alors confrontes avec
leur intolerance.

]Au contraire, c'est le probleme de toute notre societe, le desir
]de diviser le monde en "nous autres" et "eux autres", puis de
]vouloir "planter" ceux-ci.  Desole' que votre mere n'ait pas ete
]plus large d'esprit.

Que veux-tu, ca prend du temps avant d'eliminer cet esprit de clocher
qui regne encore chez beaucoup de gens au travers les generations.

]Tom Box, anglo intolerant, digne a planter

Pas mal. Sarcastique a souhait: j'aime ca.

Ciao!

Francois Audet, franco tolerant, planteur d'anglo  :-)


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Is there an NDP `think-tank'?
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:00:11 GMT

Not likely anything faintly similar to the Fraser Institute.

If I understand correctly, the Fraser Institute is a private organization
that is not publicly funded.  They have to convince people to pay for
their ideas, whether it be people that purchase books, or whether it be
business interests.

Can you see a socialistic think tank run by some form of private 
enterprise?  Neither can I...

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca           |===================================
University of Ottawa              |  The Personal Computer:  Colt 45
Master of System Science Program  |  of the Information Frontier
From: "thomas corbett" <thomas.corbett@canrem.com>
Subject: reform party of canada
Reply-To: "thomas corbett" <thomas.corbett@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: can
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:06:30 EST

Is there anybody out there with a knowledge of or any interest in The
Reform Party of Canada? I don't care if you agree with this party and
think they are the best thing to happen since sliced bread (brown of
course)or the scourge of the earth. I would like to know what your
opinions of the party are, either on specific issues or generally.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: sparky can.politics:11026 can.general:6146 soc.culture.canada:9613
From: 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Pro British is not anti French (Was: Legalized ...)
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:55:53 GMT
Organization: University of Western Ont, London

In article <1992Dec21.214845.902@spxtech.qc.ca>, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
> Pro-British education is not anti-French.

No, but it is not nice to kick somebody when their down and say, "hahaha,
you lost 1759 and we're proud of it"...

> Anti French sentiment in England may come from other sources:- (  :-)  )

> Brits, in their homeland, may have a general feeling of nausea for
> people who eat things like snails, pigs feet, frogs legs,... :-)

Just thinking about it makes me wheezy. Say, what do you think about
poutine? Personally, it's gobs of fun....

> I remember going into a French restaurant, looking for something
> "safe" to eat, knowing I would be crossing the channel within 2
> hours (I'm a landlubber!), deciding that the safest thing on the menu
> looked like ham omelette, and being served uncooked pork slice with a
> decidedly raw egg thrown over it. Uurrgghhh! I might not have made it
> to the ferry terminal if I'd eaten it. :-)

I'm glad I don't live in Europe. Besides, they don't have enough
McDonald's there     :-)

> As for "French" "breakfast" - typically stale, dry white french loaves
> and "bidet"s of sometimes re-heated coffee. Uurrgghhh again! :-)

Yuck! I prefer thick pancakes (and not those wimpy thin crepes) - just
slopping over with maple syrop. And if I can't get that I'll settle
for Frosted Flakes with orange juice.

> "Bathrooms" in French "Chambres-d'hote"s!?

Hey, how come their Stop signs say STOP and Quebec's say ARRET. Who is
more French anyways.......

> I digress.

Moi aussi.

> I wonder how many times the phrases "Bloody French Peasants!" and
> "Maudites touristes anglaises!" are muttered on French soil in an
> average summer? :-)
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me. These comments are intended simply
> as a (hopefully) humerous diversion. I enjoy going to France. I
> have considered emigrating there. 

My uncle visited France two years ago. Just think about this one...
pay-toilets. And once times up, the door opens wide and everyone can
see that you are not finished your job. Real embarrasing.

> -- 
>   ///==================================================================\\\
>   ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
>   ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
>   |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
-- 

John P. LaRocque
vader@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario


"Urk..urk..."
"Apology accepted, Captain Needa", Darth Vader
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Is there an NDP `think-tank'?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:43:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.200011.15959@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>If I understand correctly, the Fraser Institute is a private organization
>that is not publicly funded.  They have to convince people to pay for
>their ideas

So? It's also a business-paid propaganda machine. Plain and simple.

>Can you see a socialistic think tank run by some form of private 
>enterprise?  Neither can I...

Gobs of them. They all advertise in the Canadian Forum magazine.  The
November and December 1992 issues are particularly good, BTW.  If
that's not enough, just look across the border and pick up any issue of
The Nation. Another good weekly rag to keep you up nights thinking and
thinking.
-- 
Michael MY Hui  ~{~}  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: aa139@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Lynch)
Subject: Re: UI Benfits Cut
Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:20:32 GMT


Self employed people do pay UIC premiums.  In fact they pay more
than if they were employed by a compnay...company.
-- 
Xref: sparky can.politics:10985 can.general:6115 soc.culture.canada:9581
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Legalized Discrimination in Quebec
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:27:10 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Dec20.182447.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque) writes:
>In article <20DEC92.15235432.0059@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>
>Actually I never really cared for it until I was a teenager. Up until
>then I was just a product of your typical middle-class white North
>American English-speaking culture. I watched American cinema (and still
>do and am proud of it), and American TV and my heroes were Han Solo
>and Luke Skywalker back when I was 8. Maybe they were your heroes too.

Ahem... When I was 8, Han and Luke weren't even a gleam in George
Lucas's eye.  I'm a dinosaur, compared to many of you on the net.
>
>> I'm sincerely curious as to why you feel French Canadian/Quebecois.
>
>Why not? Everyone else is proud of their Italian/Irish/Pakistani/
>multicultural heritage and all. And HERE I AM with Canadian roots
>that go back many generations. And I identify with my French
>Canadian heritage (more to come after this paragraph).

Why not indeed.  If you feel that way, great.  I just don't
feel much special identification with my ancestors.  Most, if
not all, of them were British, but all my grandparents were
born in Canada, and some of my ancestors were here for several
generations before that, and I've never felt any special affinity
for Britain.

This is not due to a lack of imperialistic brainwashing from the
Ontario school system.  When I started school, the current Canadian
flag had not yet been adopted.  Outside the school, the Canadian Red
Ensign was flown (a red flag with the Union Jack in the upper left
quadrant and the Canadian coat of arms (itself made up of mostly
British and French symbols) on the right hand side).  Inside the
classrooms, no such compromise was made.  The flag flown there
was the Union Jack, right next to the picture of the Queen.
We learned to sing "God Save the Queen" in kindergarten, but
didn't get around to "O Canada" until grade 1.  For Victoria Day
(better known to us kids as Firecracker Day) we learned songs
with absurd pompous lyrics about the glories of the British Empire.
Fortunately, none of this had any lasting effect on me.
>
Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and abortion (was Re: Speciesism)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 15:03:52 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: na
Organization: Thibault & Friends

In article <viking.724414940@vincent1.iastate.edu> 
(Dan Sorenson) writes: 

> 	Bullshit.  Read your United States Constitution, and pay
> special attention to the 9th, 10th,  and 14th amendments.  Unless

        Sorry Dan, it's _your_ United States Constitution. You may not
        have noticed in the heat of the argument, but this is
        can.politics, not us.politics.

        May I also point out that there are other newsgroups
        dedicated to the abortion topic? You might try talk.abortion
        if this issue really turns your crank.

        Cheers,
                Marc


---
 Marc Thibault        |  Consulting Systems Analyst  |  The PC: Colt '45
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  R.R.1, Oxford Mills,        |  of the information
 CIS:71441,2226       |  Ontario, Canada  K0G 1S0    |   frontier
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |                              |

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.0

mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh
AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg
PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+
=HLnv
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

                
Xref: sparky can.politics:11020 can.general:6141 soc.culture.canada:9610
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Pro British is not anti French (Was: Legalized ...)
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:48:45 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1683

From article <21DEC92.14690968.0091@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, by CZ94 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>:
>
> .....
> be seen as anti-French.  And though my education was at times
> absurdly pro-British, it was not generally anti-French.  People
> .....

Pro-British education is not anti-French.

Anti French sentiment in England may come from other sources:- (  :-)  )

Brits, in their homeland, may have a general feeling of nausea for
people who eat things like snails, pigs feet, frogs legs,... :-)

I remember going into a French restaurant, looking for something
"safe" to eat, knowing I would be crossing the channel within 2
hours (I'm a landlubber!), deciding that the safest thing on the menu
looked like ham omelette, and being served uncooked pork slice with a
decidedly raw egg thrown over it. Uurrgghhh! I might not have made it
to the ferry terminal if I'd eaten it. :-)

As for "French" "breakfast" - typically stale, dry white french loaves
and "bidet"s of sometimes re-heated coffee. Uurrgghhh again! :-)

"Bathrooms" in French "Chambres-d'hote"s!?

I digress.

I wonder how many times the phrases "Bloody French Peasants!" and
"Maudites touristes anglaises!" are muttered on French soil in an
average summer? :-)

Please don't misunderstand me. These comments are intended simply
as a (hopefully) humerous diversion. I enjoy going to France. I
have considered emigrating there. 

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Subject: Re: The Canadian Problem - How can it be fixed?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:17:13 GMT

yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:

> Time for Parliament to see more free votes...

I agree.  If the politicians who propose a policy can't convince the other
politicians of their own party of its merits, how can they expect to convince
the voters that it is a good policy?

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: O2NY <O2NY@UNB.CA>
Subject: Merry Christmas and a positive New Year
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:42:12 GMT

Well it's home I go for Christmas, I'll be back next year. I think
that next year we should all try to look for positive alternatives
and resolutions to the problems we have in Canada (including Quebec).
Too often we get caught up dealing with negative solutions, and
even personal attacks. I feel we all need to be optomistic to achieve
any long lasting good in our country. Yes, this invitation even to be
positive even includes you, Denis! :-)

Merry Christmas.... From David Szemerda (o2ny@unb.ca)

Newsgroups: can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: reform party of canad
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: can
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:20:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.015553.11786@mdivax1.uucp> robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson) writes:
>WARNING: if you followed the Reform Party free-for-all that went on a
>month or so back, you might want to hit the 'n' key now as this will
>probably just be a replay.
>
>alan pickersgill (alan.pickersgill@canrem.com) wrote:
>> -=> On 12-23-92  14:32, Jim Robinson wrote to All <=-
>
>> JR> Please elaborate on how the RP has made itself "deliberately"
>> JR> "attractive to bigots". That is a strong statement and one should
>> JR> really provide some evidence if one is going to make it.
>
>> I am thinking of policies on immigration, multi-culturalism, rcmp
>> uniforms, bilingualism. They are doing nothing to discourage bigotry.
>
>This is my understanding of RP policies on the above:
>
>immigration: the RP wants to de-emphasize the family class immigrant and
>emphasize the independent class immigrant; the idea being that immigrants
>with skills and education benefit Canada more than immigrants who happen
>to have the right relatives. I do not see anything bigoted about such a
>policy.
>

And this is not a racist policy...most of our immigration would still
come from China and India...see for example an article in the December
26, 1992 Toronto Star on page D6 entitled "US software firms stampede
to India"...we can find immigrants with skills and education in the
developing world, and base immigration on merit and not on whom one
is related to.  Those who believe that we cannot find skilled
independent immigrants in the developing world are the ones with
the false and racist stereotype.  Successful and increase immigration
by independent immigrants, who can easily integrate into the economic
mainstream, will only spur on more immigration and economic growth,
which will increase our ability to be open to more refugees, than
we even are now.

Gerald
Xref: sparky can.politics:11018 can.general:6140 soc.culture.canada:9608
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Legalized Discrimination in Quebec
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:13:32 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 818

From article <1992Dec20.130816.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, by 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque):
>
> .....
>
> Why draft new laws when removing current restrictive laws would do the trick.
> As I have said before, legalizing the "preservation" of cultures assumes
> that cultures belong in a museum. 
> 

I agree.

Should we start with Bill 178 and the "Access to English schools" legislation?

> Anyways, I'm happy to be back reading your posts again.
> 
>> Salud, John!
> 
> Salut, Steve 
> 

Joyeux Noel, mon ami.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
QUIT
ation in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics