From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: General question
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:20:41 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Sep25.204029.903@alw.nih.gov>, pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss) writes:
 
> Still I can't figure it out how can one camp out of a designated site. I guess
> a permit must be received first, yeah? Can I somehow learn which place
> *may* issue a permit and which *never* does it (I mean, without calling
> there and making them seek of my poor spoken English)? Any difference between
> SP/SF/NP/NFs...

> Thus far I beleive that any place to install a tent there must have a sign,
> and those poor climbers setting a camp in a fog in the midst of nowhere
> will be inevitably fined next morning 

The permit situation depends on which state or federal agency is managing
a given plot of land, and the land's official use classification.
Generally:

    State Parks    -  It depends on the state. In most California state
                      and county parks you have to stay in
		      officially designated backcountry campsites, which 
                      are reservable.

    National Park  -  a free wilderness permit is required.  There may
                      be a daily quota for a given area to prevent
                      overcrowding.  In certain specific zones within a 
                      park, like Yosemite Valley proper or the South Rim of
                      the Grand Canyon, you have to get a spot in the 
                      official campgrounds or not camp at all.
                      
    National Forest - In an officially designated Wilderness Area within
                      a National Forest you usually need a permit just like 
                      in a National Park.  Otherwise, you can camp anywhere
                      in a National Forest unless it is specifically 
                      declared otherwise.  

    Bureau of Land  - Pretty much the same as for National Forests.
    Management (BLM)
    Lands            

> Just another related threat: I was told that I can't leave my car overnight
> aside a road... not because of a chance to get it vandalized, but because
> of a chance to get me fined. Shit! And how do you manage to leave your cars
> at your trailheads? Are these places designated "Overnight parking
> facility. For the trail users only. Expose your permit in your front
> window. If towed, call to hell" ?

Again it depends.  True, you can't just leave your car on the shoulder of
an Interstate highway that happens to run past some scenic wonder you
want to hike to.  But parking on the shoulder and in turnouts of 2-lane
highways is usually legal unless there's a no-parking sign.  Official
trailheads almost always have parking.
 
> I also learnt that this country usually keeps a fair stock of restrictive
> instructions out of use. A ban may exist but kept unfrequently used. KInda
> like a weapon reserved for really nasty offenders only.
> "it's forbidden but nobody cares as long as you're otherwise a good guy"

Don't count on it.  If you ignore permit requirements for an over-used
area like Mt. Whitney or the Grand Canyon they will definitely fine your
ass for it.   On the other hand, if a broken leg has forced you to 
camp illegally close to a water source noone would cite you
for it.  
 

> I'm especially interested to find out an informal rule for a private
> backcountry use. I realize that if an owner does post a "No ..." sign, we
> better keep off. Suppose an owner posts nothing, can I draw any conclusion?

Ask permission anyway.  

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Neutral saying in WWII 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry