From: CHINA@UTKVX.BITNET
Subject:      FWD from Council-Net, "On IFCSS/CCSA Bank Account Issue"
Reply-To: CHINA@UTKVX.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:00:14 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.bitnet

From:   IN%"council@venus.physics.emory.edu"  8-JAN-1993 23:26:23.32
To:     IN%"china@utkvx.utk.edu"
CC:
Subj:   Minutes - Part II -  On IFCSS/CCSA Bank Accounts Issue

Dear Coleagues,

Here is Part II of Minutes.  It is looong :-) (306 lines)

Well, I tried by best to fathfully report the related debates and
discussion.  I am sure there are many many things left out which should
be included.  Please read it carefully, if anyone wants to have a copy
of the audio type, please contact me or Kai -- of course, don't forget to
include a check of $7.00  :-( .  Please make changes.

Please note, this is only the FIRST version.  Kai will make changes
after he get the audio type which is on the way by first class mail.

I beleive the 3rd teleconference is one of the most imporatant
meetings in IFCSS history.  This Minutes will go in the history record.
Rigth or wrong, disappointment or proud, let time be the judge.

Thanks for your attention.  Have a nice weekend.

Jinghong


----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Minutes:  Part II  On IFCSS/CCSA Bank Account Issues ......... 306
----------------------------------------------------------------------

About two and half hours into the conference, a special meeting order
was made for discussing issues related to IFCSS Committee on Chiense
Students Affair(CCSA) lobby banking accounts and its relations with May
4th Foundation.  Mr. Haiching Zhao as Chairman of CCSA was invited.

Miss Wenyan Li, Chairperson of IFCSS Council Finance Committee, briefly
reported CCSA bank accounts audinting.  Miss Li headed the Council
auditing group, consisting council member Mr. Yuhe Liu and Mr. Jianxin Tang.
She briefly introduced the entire auditing process, including rules and
procedures.  The three council member went through related records
and documents provided by May 4th Foundation and concluded that the
CCSA financial report matchs with the records.  Miss Li expressed
appreciation for the cooperation and helps provided by the Board of
May 4th Foundation.

Mr. Yuhe Liu and Mr. Jianxin Tang added on several technical points.

IFCSS President Geng Xiao thanked council members for their efforts.
As the executive branch, the HQ had tried to cooperate with the Council
and May 4th in order to have a successful auditing.  He expressed, however,
two main dispointments in the following areas:

A. Auditing's purpose should not be check the numbers and amount of
money spent, Mr. Geng said.  He emphasized that what more important
is to check about the records and documents, to determining the
relationships among IFCSS, IFCSS/CCSA and May 4th.  He is disappointed
that the Contract between IFCSS/CCSA and May 4th, the basic document
which defines and regulates all other activities, could not be located.
This auditing on IFCSS's money may not happen had May 4th not gave their
invitation to check about IFCSS's money.  Mr. Geng felt that without
proper defination on such basic issues, the the cooperation and future
works are put at very uncertain state.  He emphasized that no matter
who is in charge, the most important thing is it should be defined.

B. Mr. Geng was surprised to see, as the first time, the name list of
Board members of May 4th, with Mr. Haiching Zhao and Mr. Yingquan Ji
as two out of the five.  Mr. Zhao and Mr. Ji as the Chairman and
Executive Chair of IFCSS/CCSA respectively, are not only acting on both
sides of the one bank account issue, but also the tactual managers of that
said bank accounts.  He pointed out the fact that they have been using
the names IFCSS/CCSA, NCCA(was said as: national committee on chinese
affair).  Since NCCA has appeared on several publications as a real political
organization and also showed up on CCSA's financial report, President
Geng questioned what kind of relationships are among CCSA, NCCA and May 4th.
He stated that Mr. Zhao with his multi-role position, as the Chairman of
CCSA, Chairman of NCCA, Board member of May 4th and still the executive
manager of CCSA bank accounts, has violated some basic regulations.
Mr. Geng strongly believe that the current situation, calling donation by
using IFCSS's name, spending money by May 4th's name and publizing by
NCCA's name, has severely damedge IFCSS's interests.  If Mr. Zhao
continues such acts, Mr. Geng believed Mr. Zhao must resign from his
post in IFCSS.

Mr. Haiching Zhao then was given same opportunity to speek.  He first
appolazised for the delay on financial report.  Due many technical
difficulties, the report was not turned in as he promised during
the last counil meeting.  He agreed that importance of the auditing
citing the responsibilities to the public doners.

On the question raised by Mr. Geng, Mr. Zhao stressed that the IFCSS/CCSA
bank accounts is responsible to IFCSS Council, both legally and
traditionally.  This matter is not related to any third party.  On the
issue of relationships among Council, CCSA and May 4th, Mr. Zhao said
in the Fall of 1989, the then Council of May 4th and then CCSA once
had a meeting.  In the meeting Minute, it was decided that the May 4th
would be in charge of IFCSS/CCSA's finance income and spend.  Particularly,
three of a five people group would be able to sign checks.  But due to
some technical problems, the said original document is missing.  Mr. Zhao
had tried to locate it.

On the names CCSA and NCCA confusion, Mr. Zhao clarified that NCCA is
in fact the same as CCSA.  It is not a real identity.  It is only another
name used when in situations it was necessary.  In the case of donation
AD on newspaper, it was used to test the effect of the name and the
resolt was quite sucessful.  The bank account opened under the name of NCCA
is only a saving account for the purpose of convenience.

As the President of Board of May 4th Foundation, Mr. Guang Yang briefly
responded to IFCSS President Xiao Geng's questions.  He stressed that
May 4th is an independet legal organization.  He felt it had been very
courteous that May 4th invited IFCSS to audit the CCSA bank accounts
given that this issue had become such a big problem recently.  On this
point, if IFCSS still believes that May 4th did something wrong, then
the problems can only be settled by American legal system.

Mr. Yang emphasized that May 4th is not a branch of IFCSS, and has a
legal status.  He urged IFCSS council members to understand that have
a clear finance records is also in May 4th's interests.  For the missing
documents, he questioned whether or not the IFCSS President could give a
full account on all of its first year paperworks.  As the new President
for May 4th, Mr. Yang felt could not be held responsible for all of the
previous actions.  On the issue of Mr. Zhao and Mr. Ji joined the May
4th Board, he pointed out that IFCSS has no right whatsoever to interfer.

Mr. Geng then followed by pointing out his question was focused on the
normal relationship between two organizations.  IFCSS has all of its
finance record and official documents open to the public.  On the
controvary, May 4th has yet to do so.  Mr. Geng raised the question on
the parternership, if one dose not know these basic information about
an organization, how could a normal parternership be possible.  At the
current state, IFCSS has about $50,000 money saved in CCSA under the
bank status provided by May 4th.  However, the IFCSS President dose
not even had the chance to look at May 4th Bylaw and its Board member
name list.  Mr. Geng considered the cooperation being next to impossilbe.

On the traditional reasons cited by Mr. Zhao, Mr. Geng pointed out that
is the key problem.  The relationships must be legally defined rather
than continuing by tradition.

To be more effective in a teleconference, IFCSS Council Chairman
Jinghong Li collected some technical questions based on reviewing the
IFCSS/CCSA financial report and council auditing report.  He
presented these questions to those concerned, and left time to other
council members for more questions later.  Mr. Li explained that
the questions to be raised are from conversations with many people
including council members.  The questions might appear to be direct
and aggrasive, he wished for people's understanding and not taking
them personally.  Total of 7 questions were asked.

1. The IFCSS/CCSA financial report did not show balance before July, 1992.
Was there any balance, if yes, how much?

Mr. Haiching Zhao told the meeting he toke charge of the lobby accounts
in Washington D.C. from July of 1992, therefore he was not aware of
the previous balance under the account in Boston.

Mr. Guang Yang told the meeting there was about $8,000--$10,000 balance
at the begining of July 1992.  He explained that as a period and in the
form of income/spend report, this time the balance was not mentioned.  It
is totally normal and professional.

2.  There is an office/home $750 monthly conpensition paied to
Mr. Haiching Zhao.  What was the approval procedure and what is the
start/end time ?

Mr. Zhao explained that during the lobby actitives, the Council of
May 4th made a decision which copied IFCSS HQ office practice.  He
beleived that the time was set to one year, and is currently valid.
For the exact date, he needed to check the record.  When asked
by Mr. Li for a copy of the said record, Mr. Zhao said that all three
council members who audited the accounts have all seen it.  Mr. Yuhe Liu
one of the auditing people told the meeting didn't see record were in
the documents audited.  Mr. Guang Yang said that since May 4th is
in charge of the money and is legally responsible for the accounts,
it should have the power to make such decisions.  May 4th has the
meeting minutes, it is not necessary for IFCSS to challenge whether
or not such records exist.  He further stressed that people should
understand and support those who work on real issues, and should not
try to find ways to limit them or make them to suffer.  Mr. Li appealed
to the meeting that for a question, one can choose either to answer or
not to.  But, please do not always analize the "motivation" behind.

3.  From the financial report, the biggest spendings were the three
celebration parties after the protection bill been signed into law,
(totaled more than $10,000).  It is known that the money were mainly
for the Senators to travel and stay in hotels.  There was no problems
on that.  The question is, those parties, according to people attended,
also sold tickets, priced as high as $20 per person.  Then, where had
the money gone to ?

Mr. Zhao explained that those income were mainly for local organizers
to pay to their expences.  Council member Mr. Liqun Dong explained
the situation in Seattle: all of the process were controlled by local
association, there was no relation with IFCSS.  Mr. Guang Yang also
pointed out the similar situation in Boston.  He felt that people
have to trust each other.  Mr. Jinghong Li again asked people to
answer questions not always digging motivates.

4.  People all recongnize that May 4th as an independent organization
has the full power and right to whoever to sit on its Board.  But,
since Mr. Haiching Zhao and Mr Yingquan Ji are both representatives
of IFCSS in charge of the IFCSS/CCSA bank accounts, the fact that they
joined the May 4th Board naturally affacts IFCSS's interests.  Then,
why is it thought to inform IFCSS on their action ?

Mr. Zhao answered that he joined May 4th Board because of the frequent
personnel change in May 4th which made the operation difficult and
because of his commitment to May 4th.  By the time about August 1992,
Mr. Zhao and Mr. Ji realized the situation of lacking of manpower.
During the process, both of them felt they were obligated to inform the
IFCSS HQ.  Since even some IFCSS Council members could be subcommittee
chairperons, therefore, to join May 4th Board is absolutely correct and
there is nothing to be fastidious about.

5.  There are two names have been used by CCSA, one is the CCSA, the
other is the NCCA.  According to Mr. Zhao, both are the same.  But it
is separatedly listed in the financial report.  If in the future,
May 4th and IFCSS decided to finally settle the accounts and transfer
the money back to IFCSS, is there any possible problem for the money
under the name NCCA to be trasfered ?

Mr. Zhao told the meeting, first of all the question does not exist.
He said that there is no such thing that May 4th will transfer any
money to IFCSS, it is not possible.

6.  It has been reported that there are still some donation check
payable to IFCSS/CCSA not been cashed.  How many check are still
holding, how much money on there ?

Mr. Zhao felt there should be no more such problems.  It might happened
back to the lobby time due to busy and confusions.

7.  For the council auditing, there should be a formal written report
including some specific documents or copies of them.   Official IFCSS
documents are save by the HQ.  This auditing had brought some copies
of related documents, but were requested not to be released to public.
Where the public included the IFCSS HQ.  The question was, what can
be used for the auditing official record ?

Mr. Guang Yang explained that it was intended to specifically single
out the IFCSS HQ.  May 4th as an organization has certain procedures.
Not anyone can request its records.  Since the finance is under IFCSS
Council's juristiction, the records should be between the May 4th and
IFCSS Council.  The IFCSS HQ as the third party should not be involded.
Miss Wenyan Li was not aware of such restrictions, she thought all
records were open to IFCSS.  Mr. Yuhe Liu, pointed that he requested
May 4th to provided copies of necessary documents if at all possible.
He was requested not to release to public.  Mr. Liu sepcifically asked
whether or not the IFCSS HQ is considered as public, the answer was
of course it belongs to the public.

After the above questions and answeres, other council members also
raised soem questions.

Mr. Songyun Huang asked about the ownership of IFCSS/CCSA money under
the bank status of May 4th Foundation.  Mr. Zhao told the meeting that
the accounts' tax-id belongs to May 4th, therefore May 4th is legally
responsible for the accounts.  The CCSA is related to IFCSS politically,
or IFCSS is resposible for the actual lobby activities.  But, CCSA
is related to May 4th financially.  The money has entered May 4th
which reports on taxes annaully.  This has been the case for the last
three years.  On the other hand, there were problems before IFCSS's
got its C4 (may lobby) status; the other problem is money from foreign
country.  All the money donated to IFCSS/CCSA are now belong to May 4th.

Other council members and participants raised many related questions.
The discussion was then went on procedures of IFCSS subcommittee
chairperson's impeachment and IFCSS President's power on subcommittee
personnel's appointment or discharge.

At this stage, Mr. Guang Yang, as the President of May 4th, expressed
his feeling.  He said that May 4th has always try to handle this
relationship well.  May 4th has provided help IFCSS for the last
three years.  It not only spent time, but also spent its own money
to pay taxes for IFCSS accounts.  But now, it seems May 4th is playing
a bad role.  On this point, May 4th wishes to settle all the problems
as soon as possible.  It is not the intention of May 4th to be in
such situation at all.  In the meantime, he called on IFCSS Council
members to pay attention the reasons why this has become a big issue.
There were some people, who had made many phone calls including to
lawyers in D.C.  It had caught a lot of attentions, created an image
seemed there was a big finance problem, who had through the issue
into a total disorder.  Now, the accounts had been audited and there
was no problems.  Mr. Yang wondered what was going to happen next?
Meeting Chairman Jinghong Li denied IFCSS Vice President Baoping He's
request of responding, who claimed wanting to defend IFCSS's integrity.

A motion to reconfirm the council members' auditing was raised, but
later laied on table for future consideration.

Then two motions moved by council member Gang Li were considered.
After about 50 minutes debates, the council adopted them.  One resolution
demands that IFCSS/CCSA to terminate its financial relationship with
May 4th Foundation, claim all the funds it is entitled and turn
all relevant documents to IFCSS Treasurer.  The other resolution
clarifys that IFCSS/CCSA is the only official name to be used
from now on.

During the debate, Mr. Haiching Zhao was given time to express his
opinion.  He called upon council members to pay attention to the
possible legal problems and considering exsiting problems' history.
Mr. Zhao predicted, if the above motion is passed, it will cause
the totally break up of IFCSS because IFCSS/CCSA has been functioning
well under the current arrangements.

Mr. Baoping He reported to the council that on one hand May 4th
had provided helps to IFCSS, on the other hand, the main part
of May 4th Foundation's donation income were made by using the
name of IFCSS.  The fact is that May 4th has been fed by IFCSS's
work and credit.  On the break up of IFCSS, he pointed out that if
the current situation continues, there would certainly be more
problems and criese ahead.  He also explained that the money, which
belongs to IFCSS and currently saved in May 4th, would be saved in
IFCSS under the special status for CCSA to use.

Upon the adoption of the above two resolutions, Mr. Haiching Zhao
was invited by council member to give a few words.  Mr. Zhao expressed
his disappointment on the actions taken by the council, cited the
difficulties to continue his work as Chairman of CCSA, and then
turned his resignation to IFCSS President.

With council members' unanimous consent, the Chairman of Council will
write a letter to May 4th Foundation in appreciation of their help and
support in the past, and thank them for having provided the bank status
to open IFCSS/CCSA accounts.

At 2:18am EST, Jan. 7, 1993, Council 3rd Teleconference adjourned.


                       ==== the end ===
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china