From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: game copiers
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:32:20 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <92234.225008U59985@uicvm.uic.edu> U59985@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>
>I've been reading about these game copiers for some time now. Let me start by
>saying that I have one of these disk drive things for the Famicom. For me their
>only purpose was to get Famicom games cheap. And I'm talking about $2-$4 a
>game.

Why, you dirty little pirate you! :-)

>Personally, I think that there are very few people out there that would use the
>se systems for game evaluation or hacking. And I think there is a difference
>between game cartridges and computer software. I think paying $300 for a word
>processor or spreadsheet ridiculous.

I do too.  But I have paid up to $200 for word processors, and have also spent
$600 on a schematic capture/board layour utility.  These, in my opinion, were
"worth it".

> However, paying $50-$70 for a game is not
>that bad, once you think about it. Look at it this way, a 1meg RAM SIMM costs
>about $30 on the market. An 8megabit game is equal to a 1megabyte game. So,
>even assuming that Nintendo and Sega get's their memory chips for much less,
>you cna figure that the hardware costs alone come to about $20. I mean, memory
>cases, instructions, shipping, etc. Then there is advertising, profit margins,
>dealer profits, etc. I haven't even begun to include programming fees, etc.
>So SFII, which costs $70 is not all that bad.

So you're saying that you think the game media contributes to the high
price?  Well, yeah, I suppose some.  But remember... Nintendo, like any
business, is out to maximize their profits (and there's nothing wrong with
that).  I have a hard time believeing that Nintendo would lower their
prices even if their material costs were cut in half.  Why would they?  If I
were running Nintendo, I sure wouldn't!

Personally, I don't think ANY game is worth $70.  $30, sure.  $40, maybe.  $50,
once in a blue moon.  But $60 or $70 -- I won't buy it.  (And guess what...
I buy a lot of used games instead.  But I certainly support any game maker's
right to charge whatever they feel they can get...)

>But I digress, game copiers will probably never make it here to the U.S. Our
>copyright laws are just too strict.

We're still looking a good legal reason why.

> Even if they did make it here, what would
>happen. Let's say that my friends and I all have a game copier. We could get
>together and buy 1 game and copy it 4 or 5 times and everyone would have a copy
>. True this is great for us, but what about Nintendo or Sega? How long can they
>survive under this kind of attrition? How many copies of SFII will actually be
>sold, if 1 out of 7 people buy a copy, yet all seven people have the game?

Nintendo and Sega would survive just fine.  Consider: Of all the Nintendos
ever, only a small portion of the owners would buy game copiers.  Of all the
Macs, PCs, Amigas, STs, etc. sold, far more people are going to buy
copiers (Copy II PC, etc. is cheaper than any hardware copier!).  And guess
what?  The Mac, PC, and Amiga game markets are doing fine.  (Although as
has been pointed out here, computer makers make profit on the computer,
whereas Nintendo and Sega sell the consoles at near cost and make profit on
the games.  So widespread piracy might force them to change that policy.)

It doesn't really matter just how many game copiers are out there -- whatever
the number is, those systems either will or will not support a game market
that allows businesses to have decent profits.  (And remember that although
businesses that grow 50% in one year are awesome and all, businesses that
return 15% these days can stay around forever.)  I've yet to see a consumer
oriented computer that couldn't support this market.  (Although sometimes
piracy knocks a few really good programmers out of the marketplace... the
guy who wrote M.U.L.E. for the C-64 comes to mind...)

So, anyway... Yes, piracy is wrong.  Yes, most copiers are probably being
used for illegal activities.  No, I don't think that means they should be
outlawed, and I'm still looking for a legal reason why they seem to be.  And
yes, even with piracy running rampant, Nintendo and Sega will survive.

Have a nice day...

					---Joel Kolstad
Newsgroups: rec.games.video,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy