HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kj12+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kimberlie Ann Johnson)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: losing fat AND gaining muscle??
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:56:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.kePhP4u00UhBE1oUsa
Organization: Doctoral student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I just subscribed to this bboard and was interested in a conversation
dated July 9th where someone indicated that lifting weights AND doing
aerobics might not be the best method to lose fat and gain muscle.

In article <1992Jul9.155727.9871@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu
(Virgilio Velasco) writes:
> 
> 
> 	There are certian troubles with trying to lose fat and
> 	gain muscle at the same time.  For best results, to lose
> 	fat one must curb one's fat intake and caloric intake.  However,
> 	reducing one's caloric intake too much will cause your
> 	body to cannibalize your protein stores for energy, thus
> 	causing muscle loss.  This can be especially troublesome if
> 	one lifts weights AND exercises aerobically regularly.


What? I thought lifting and aerobic exercise were the BEST way to get
strong and lean! 

I have been lifting (almost exclusively free weights) 4 times a week for
8 months and doing aerobics (high impact or step) or running 4 times a
week for the last six months.  I can definately see improvements.  Much
more stamina, increased muscle mass/tone in my upper body, better tone
in my lower body. 

I have lost a dress size or so, but have gone from 144 pounds to 149.
(I'm not too worried about this--muscle weighs more than fat and all
that)  I eat mostly carbs and lean meat and try to limit fat.

I am pleased with my progress and think a bit more attention to diet
(limiting fat that is) would really help.

Does that sound like sound advice?
Or would some other method help me to lose fat and gain muscle more
effectively?

    
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX)
Subject: Re: Questions About Low Carbo Diet
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:18:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.142324.8640@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <9207221322.AA01721@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> SSDC2@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (J Green) writes:
>>ketosis is nothing to play with! ketosis occurs when the body does/doesnt(?)
>>produce ketones,
>
>Does.
>
>>and can have disasterous results including (if i'm remember-
>>ing correctly) coma. ketosis can be monitored using test strips, which can
>>purchased at most drug stores (over the counter).
>>i can't remember all the specifics, but my friend's cat is diabetic, and
>>she has to test his glucose and his ketones.
>>i'm not a doctor or anything, so ask a doctor or pharmacist for more info!
>
>Any very-low-calorie diet (< 700 kcal/day) will produce ketosis, as

According to Atkins, carbos must be lower than 35-40 g/day to get the
BDK (Benign Dietary Ketosis) discussed in his 1992 book.  35 grams
of carbohydrate corresponds to about 140 calories (kcal) depending on
whose data one uses.

I just got Atkins' new book today, so the only answer I will give now is:
		$19.95 (hardcover)

I dare say the book will provoke some trauma from respiratory cauterization.
-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
From: loszewski_im@nutmeg.hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Dymetadrine 25 (Poobear)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:25:20 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <1992Jul22.185537.19449@athena.mit.edu>, poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.121130.189@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.181536.4769@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah532@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Gleba) writes:
>>> Does anybody have any info/experience with this stuff? Side effects? 
>>> or anything? All info would be greatly appreciated. Send mail if
>>> possible.
>>> 
>>> -MIke
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Bodybuilders and Volleyball Players Will Rule The World
>
>>
>>Rob
>>Loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu
> 
> rob, also bear in mind that dym 25 is not fda approved.
 
> poobear

Poobear:  I know it isn't FDA approved.  It's approved to be used in OTC meds.
          but not the type of consumption we are talking about here.
          Personally, I am not on good terms with the FDA, and I think that 
          there system is bull.  I don't appreciate somebody telling me that
          I can no longer purchase health food products or herbal products
          because their effectiveness has not been documented.  If I feel it
          works then it's my decision to take it.  And if I kick the bucket,
          then I have no one else to blame but myself.
          Pretty soon, they are going to tell us we can't buy oat bran.  Any-
          body caught with a box of Quaker Oat Squares is going to jail!!!!

Rob
From: sulli_t@pyramid.unr.edu (Tim Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Sweating !!!!
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:37:30 GMT
Reply-To: sulli_t@pyramid.unr.edu (Tim Sullivan)
Followup-To: misc.fitness
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science

In article <1992Jul27.152959.5408@chpc.utexas.edu> jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:
>This sweating discussion reminds me of a question I've had for a long time:
>I really like a steam bath, but it appears most health clubs, etc, that 
>I've seen in recent years have only a sauna (which I loathe), always with 
>a sign on it saying, "Don't pour water on the lava rocks!".  I prefer the
>wet heat, because I feel less hot when I sweat more (in the sauna I feel
>like I'm going to explode :-), and I come out feeling like my pores got 
>opened, my sinuses got opened, and my hair and skin have had a "hot oil" 
>treatment.
>
>So which is better after a workout?  Wet or Dry?
>
>Jan

OK, I'll cast my vote for a sauna.

I think that the "Don't pour water on the lava rocks!" sign has more
to do with people overdoing the water bit and messing up the heating
coils than keeping the heat dry.

The instructions that came with a sauna heater I installed at home
indicate that you're supposed to put a little water on the rocks
occasionally, but not so much that it runs down into the heater coils.

Sure feels nice after a hard workout!


Tim Sullivan (sulli_t@cs.unr.edu)

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: johna@intacc.uucp (John Allen)
Subject: Re: Problem with arm curls
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:31:11 GMT
Organization: Inter/Access' Matrix BBS

In article <1992Jul14.204753.8718@doug.cae.wisc.edu> ochs@cae.wisc.edu (Stefan Ochs) writes:
>Hi there-
>After (or while) doing arm curls my lower arms usually start to
>hurt. Does anybody have the same problem? Any suggestions, what
>I am doing wrong?
>Thanks
>            Stefan
>
>-------
>Stefan Ochs  OCHS@CHERA1.CHE.WISC.EDU
>Department of Chemical Engineering
>University of Wisconsin - Madison


There are two things probably at work here and two solutions. one, you've got
no forearm strength and the weight is too heavy for it so...build up your
forarms, some back exercises help your forearm is worked.....
Second the more in you turn the dumbell the more stress it puts on the
forearm.Godd technique -and we all know that technique is everything- is to
curl the dumbell flat...Arm hangs straight down..Palms up...Don't rotate
unless you want to work the forarm and/or inside of the bicep...John
From: blackcat.stortek.co!pae@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Questions About Low Carbo Diet
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:50:00 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <srutt.711770972@beagle> srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng) 
writes:
>drv@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dennis.r.vogel) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information about a low carbohydrate diet for weight loss.
>>I have questions like how does it work (nutritionally), are there any
>>bad side effects of it, how long must or can one stay on it, etc.
>
>>Pointers to written materials would also be welcomed.
>
>Recently, my mother told me about a diet book some of her friends are
>following and asked me if check out the science behind it. The book was
>called "The Endocrine Diet" (I think) and the object is that by 
>significantly reducing ones carbo intake, daily energy requirements come
>from stored body fat.

This doesn't make a lot of physiological sense. The only means to metabolize
fats is in muscle cells. What must be present in order to do this in the
muscle cells is oxygen and glycogen (carbohydrates) to "prime" some of the
chemical reactions in the aerobic metabolic path.

In other words, carbs must be present to burn fat.

>Protein intake is enhanced as the only other group available besides fat and
>to prevent muscle wasting.

Well, this is a plus. At least the diet didn't substitute fat to replace the
carb calories. :-)

>Side effects are ketosis, a potentially dangerous state if not carefully
>monitored (although the book does describe how to monitor it). There also
>appears to be limited evidence of negative effects to the brain during
>more severe levels of ketosis.

The ketosis is happening because the body is turning the amino acids of the
proteins into carbohydrates. At best, this is a taxing process for the body 
--
it takes a lot of water and stresses the kidneys.

Your body needs carbs. Give it carbs. You're not doing your body any favor to
feed it too few carbs and too much protein and have it go through some weird
metabolic paths to turn the excess protein into carbohydrates.

>Before I could relay this info to my mother, her friends told me how happpy
>and successful they have been with the low carbo diet and how carefully 
>they are monitoring the ketosis.

What are they monitoring for? How do they know when it happens? What do
they do when it does happen?

>                          -steve

--phil
pae@blackcat.stortek.com
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: high-protein meal before or after workout?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:21:34 GMT
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <1992Jul27.155336.221@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>
>Ed, I'm not sure I agree with you.  According to Understanding Nutrition, 
>by Whitney, Hamilton, Rolfes pg 181-182;  "Protein is broken down to amino
>acids.  These, if not used to build body protein, are deaminated, and the 
>nitrogen is excreted as urea, the remaining carbon skeletons are converted to
>pyruvate and acetyl CoA, and then to fat."
>There are no amino acids in glucose to my knowledge nor in glycogen.  Check
>your biochem book and post your results.  Thanks.

There are no amino acids in glucose.  They are deaminated.  Depending on
the amino acid in question, once deaminated to pyruvate, for example,
they can be burned in the Krebs cycle, exactly as carbohydrates. Or 
they can be resynthesized to glucose-6-phosphate, and hence to glycogen.
(Schematic on p624, 2nd ed)

p559 "...used as fuel, amino acids...two major fates:1)conversion into
glucose ...2)oxidation"

Alternatively, excess glucose is stored as fat, continually by the body.
If the glucose from aminos is 'excess', it will be converted to fat, but
only after passing through the same intermediates as carbo metabolism.

Everything (exceptions ?) can be converted to fat, but most proteins
go through a carbo stage on the way.  Protein catabolism is the source
of blood glucose in fasting individuals.
-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: hhll@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas)
Subject: Regimen for Woman
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:37:14 GMT

She has access to free weights and Universal, but not Nautilus. Currently
she uses either a Stairmaster or Lifecycle for 30 minutes every day and so
is in pretty decent aerobic shape.

She was recently told by a doctor that the reason for frequent
muscle-tension headaches is the compensation by her shoulders for weak
muscles in her back, which in turn are the result of a slight C-curvature.
We have no idea if this is true (she's never felt any weakness in her
back) but perhaps some back-strengthening work would be helpful too.

Any and all information would be much appreciated, including that related
to diets, supplements, equipment, etc. if you think it would be helpful to
a novice.

Thanks,

Steven.

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Triceps
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:11:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.145031.21742@nrao.edu>, lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
> 	nosebreakers -- (anyone know the official name?)
> 		using a curling bar, hands in the inner position
> 		70 - 10  Its important to keep you elbows in as much as

Now, I've always done an exercise that was referred to in the books
I read as "French Presses" or "Lying French Triceps Presses" or some
variation.  I lie on the bench face up, use a curling bar, elbows
bent toward my waist, press the bar off near my face, extending arms.
Is this what you're referring to?

(A variation is just extending the arms behind the head, horizontally.)

GMS
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Indoor aerobic exercise machine under $200
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 07:34:02 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

Consider a punching bag like boxers use. Your heart will become
very fit because it has to work over twice as hard to pump blood
through your arms as through your legs. For the same reason,
conducting an orchestra is sufficient to make your heart fit.
From: silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: MUSCLE MEMORY!!!!!
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:32:19 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1682B7058.TAC@ysub.ysu.edu> TAC@ysub.ysu.edu (Troy Allen Cross) writes:


>Adam, it looks like you pyramid your weights on the first two exercises.
>Doesn't doing reps in the 1-5 rep range play havoc with your joints?
>Do they really help much to increase your weights?

Well, it can be a strain to the joints.  I won't do the 1 rep set too often.
I really believe that heavy weights increase my strength a lot.  Remember,
heavy weights work for ME.  I don't even have to try to get stronger in the
bench press, and I get stronger on it.

>As for myself, anything below 6 reps just doesn't feel like it is working
>the muscle (just the joint).  And, after a few weeks of doing 4 straight sets
>of 6 reps my joints just need a break.  Of course, I believe that you are in
>your lower twenties?  That might explain it.  Because, back when I was in
>my lower twenties I do not remember having any problems with joint soreness
>and I was doing mostly 4-5 sets of 6 reps. (F.Y.I.  I am 30, almost 31 now.)

I am 21.  I had been lifting for only 15 months when I maxed 340 (with a
pause) at a weight of 162.

>I am wondering how others have changed their workout as they get older and
>more experienced ;-) at lifting weights.
>
>For myself, I try to keep my sets in the 3-5 range, my reps in the 12-8 rep
>range, the amount of weight the same for each set (after warmup), and usually
>on the reps decrease (slightly) as the sets increase.
>
>Example:  Flat Bench Press - 125x12 (warmup), 175x12 (warmup), 245-10,
>245x9, 245x8.
>
>Troy

Troy, this would help me do more reps around those weights, but it wouldn't
help me increase my heavier weights all that much (like doing reps with 315).

                                                        -Adam

-- 
     **********************************************************************
     *               Adam Silver    Powerlifter/Armwrestler               *
     *           silver@umd5.umd.edu    University of Maryland            *
     **********************************************************************
From: berra.cs.rpi.edu!cecchinr@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: LOOK at what Art Wittmann did to my Powerlifting Sig
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:47:00 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <1992Jul22.201052.2762@bnr.ca> Reg Foulkes writes:
>In article <14613@umd5.umd.edu> silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver) writes:
>
>>
>>Do you want to armwrestle me too?  We should have a 
bench/squat/armwrestling
>>competition.  :-)
>>
>>       -Adam
>
> How about bench/squat/armwrestling/legwrestling competition. I'll win the 
>two that Adam looses.
>
>--------------------------------
>Reg Foulkes                             Bell-Northern Research
>riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca           2745 Iris Street
>Telephone :(613) 763-4131     Ottawa, Ontario., Canada  K1Y 4H7

Was that 2 supposed to be a 4?

Ron
p.s. I make no claims to be able to win 'em though...
p.p.s. But I am pretty good at armwrestling (when my wrist ain't
        acting up.)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: phc65823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter H. Chou)
Subject: one-set on Nautilus?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:08:27 GMT



I was reading this book called 'The Nautilus Book' and inside
it recommended that you do only one set to failure on each machine,
and get outta there as fast as you can, so your workout only
lasts 15-25 minutes or something like that.  Is that better,
like the book says, or is it better to do three sets or something
like that?
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: Re: gymnastics
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
Distribution: misc
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:34:09 GMT



I should have mentioned that despite my email address, I do not live
in the Boston area. Therefore, references to what is available in that area
will not help me. Instead, I live in the boonies in Rhode Island.

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu
From: macbeth.umd.edu!silver@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Arm Wrestling - Which Muscles ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:40:00 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <qlsxp8g@rpi.edu> cecchinr@berra.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.165127.6956@cbnewse.cb.att.com> 
gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

>>Actually, Adam, we all expected you to list everything that excluded
>>any muscles in your legs :-).
>>
>>Man, 250 squat?  How do you stand up?  :-)
>>
>>GMS
>
>His ego hold him up! (just kidding dude)
>
>Ron

Very funny, you net nerds!  :-)  I have to admit, I do have an ego.  It's not
really big though.  Honest.  :-)

       -Adam

-- 
     **********************************************************************
     *               Adam Silver    Powerlifter/Armwrestler               *
     *           silver@umd5.umd.edu    University of Maryland            *
     **********************************************************************
From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt-x8236)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Starting out -- how much is too much
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:08:49 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

In article <1992Jul24.182347.206861@cs.cmu.edu> jennie+@cs.cmu.edu (Jennifer Kay) writes:
>[...] Anyway, I'm lucky enough to own a NordicTrack, and I want some
>advice on what sort of an exercise program I should be trying to do.

Read _The New Fit or Fat_ to get a good overall picture about life-long
fitness. Just like diet, there are some fundamental principles: you're
adapting living habits you've had for years; it will take a while to get all
the way to your target. Also, look for the small minute-to-minute changes that
will make a difference (stairs vs. elevators, etc.).

>Keeping in mind that I am in pretty bad shape, here's what I've been
>thinking about: I'd like to try and do 25 minutes a day, 5 to 7 days a
>week. [...]

This is not bad. You probably want to find some exercises other than the
Nordic Track for alternatedays. Besides helping to avoid injury/aid in
recovery, using alternate exercises will be more fun.

Also, there are a couple of things you can do differently on a Nordic Track.
One is to use hand weights for a few minutes. Another is to try juggling while
doing the leg motion. Anything to add a bit of spice!

>So what I want to know is am I going to be overdoing it?

You'll get a better sense of this as you go. If you read _TNFoF_ or other
aerobic exercise books, you'll be able to get a good benchmark with your
pulse/breathing rate if you're in an aerobic training zone.

>I remember reading somewhere that you have to give your body a chance to
>recover after exercising, and so you should only work out every other day or
>something. Is that true, or is this some great myth spread by lazy people?

Injury prevention is one thing. Equally important is whether or not you've
found exercises that you will continue for the long run.

One way to play the aerobic exercise game is to add a new aerobic exercise
every 6 months or so. Keep the older aerobic exercises you really like, and
drop the others. This is an excellent way to keep exercise fresh and new.

>-- Jennie

--phil
From: berra.cs.rpi.edu!cecchinr@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Arm Wrestling - Which Muscles ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:06:00 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <1992Jul22.165127.6956@cbnewse.cb.att.com> 
gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>In article <14597@umd5.umd.edu>, silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver) 
writes:
>> Well, Guy, and anyone else who is interested, the most important muscle 
groups
>> are the following:  forearms (wrists), hand (gripping), biceps, triceps,
>> shoulders, and back.  You probably didn't expect me to say all that, but 
it's
>> true.
>
>Actually, Adam, we all expected you to list everything that excluded
>any muscles in your legs :-).
>
>Man, 250 squat?  How do you stand up?  :-)
>
>GMS

His ego hold him up! (just kidding dude)

Ron
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: moody@brahms.udel.edu (John David Moody)
Subject: Re:Triceps
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:48:18 GMT

The best exercise I have done for my outer triceps are cable pushdowns.
You simply attach a straight bar to a cable, then put your hands palms down,
about six inches apart.  You then simply push down.  Be sure to keep your
elbows close to your body, or the exercise will become more of a shoulder
exercise.  This exercise has worked quite well in developing my outer
triceps.  My inner triceps; however, could use some work.  Any ideas would
be appreciated.

Thanks,

John David Moody
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Subject: Re: High protein meal....
Reply-To: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:22:59 GMT


In a previous article, mlabow@iat.holonet.net (Marshall Labow) says:

>Protein is best eaten over several (say 5-6) small meals a day. 

Alternately, you could snack on low-fat, high-protein (and possibly
high-carb) food during the day.  Yogurt is a good example.

>Personally I like to lift in the morning on an essentially empty stomach
>(except for coffee) but some people like to eat before they train.

I'd rather not lift on an empty stomach, so I can exercise more
vigorously.  Also, if I get hungry, it tends to distract me.

-- 
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr., grad student & roboticist-in-training, CWRU

"If God does not judge the United States, then He owes |    My boss is a 
 an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah."   - Billy Graham   |  Jewish carpenter.