From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:12:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.143427.9328@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.045205.11678@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.204017.26410@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr13.194740.15976@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Apr13.182639.3398@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>>>>>In article <SBO.92Apr10124351@gunther.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>
>GH1:[...] 
>SB:Make this country Unilingual anglophones so that we won't get Funking
>SB:French on our cereal Box. We will get back the jobs that where stolen from
>SB:us by the Funcking Frogs.
>
>SB:Let's not give 60 Millions to the province of Quebec. They don't deserve
>SB:it. They must first sign a deal. We won't pay for them. After all, it's not
>SB:their money. It's ours. Furthermore, we only get 800 Millions dispite the
>SB:fact that we are less populous. What an outrage.
>
>SB:Let's solve this once and for all. Let's send the army. Let's put those
>SB:damn Frogs back where they belong.
>
>GH1:[...]
>
>GH1:Stephane ! I had to read the attribution twice to make sure it was
>GH1:correct ! I can't believe you're saying this. I think I have never
>GH1:seen anyone on this net use "funcking frog" and "frog" and "damn frogs"
>GH1:like this before. I hope you don't mean this - as a French-speaking
>GH1:Quebecois I find it rather hostile-sounding and insulting.
>GH1:Why are you the only one here using such vocabulary ? Why are you the
>GH1:only one here who has taken such an extreme position ?
>
>SB:  ,                          ,                           ,
>SB:Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
>SB:sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
>SB:sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
>
>GH1:Non, mais .... !
>
>GH1:Gerald P Heckman
>GH1:Universite de Waterloo,
>GH1:Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
>
>SC1:He was being cynical, Gerald. I don't understand why you don't
>SC1:understand that...
>
>SC1:Don't you see the point here?
>
>SC1:There is a lot of Quebec bashing in this newsgroup, you should see that.
>SC1:At least, that's the feeling of many French-Quebeckers including myself.
>
>GH2:Yes, you're right ! Many people are expressing their disagreements
>GH2:with certain policies and attitudes of the government of Quebec as well as
>GH2:very public nationalist figures ! But Stephane is being hostile and
>GH2:insulting to all French-speaking Quebecois ! I haven't seen much like
>GH2:this on can.politics ! Attacking the people and calling us names !
>GH2:He called us "damn frogs" !
>
>GH2:Would you say he's exagerating, and adopting the stereotype of an extremist
>GH2:redneck to parody what he believes to be the public opinion in other 
>GH2:Canadian provinces ?
>
>SC2:That's the whole point of his posting!!!
>Oh !!!
>Ah !!!
>
>SC2:He was stating what he thinks is the opinion of an "English Canadian"!
>
>Geez ! I wonder where he got that opinion from. The only person who ever
>calls French-Canadians frogs on this network is Stephane himself !
>He used to complain he had cold blood and would write "ribbid ribbid" in his 
>.sig. Do you think he's been reading too much "Rejean Tremblay" in La Presse ?

He was exagerating, "voyons"!  Like YOU suggested in "GH2"! 

>SC2:He called HIMSELF as well as all FRENCH Quebeckers frogs.
>Now that's strange ! Why would he call himself names that others,
>even "English Canadians" on this net have not used agains't him ?
>
>Ca c'est bizarre ! Pourquoi se lancerait-il des noms que personne
>d'autre sur le reseau, meme les "Canadiens Anglais"  n'a utilise 
>contre lui ?

Look the definition of "exaggeration" in the dictionary...

>SC2:He WAS NOT attacking French Quebeckers!
>
>Ah bon ! Alors "damn frogs n'est pas un insulte...
>All right then. So "damn frogs" isn't an insult...   
>
>SC2:He was being cynical. "sarcastique" would be a better word.
>
>Sarcasme ? Connais pas.
>Sarcasm ? I don't know the word.

You can joke, but in this case, no, I don't think you know.

>Gee, you must be right ! If the average "English Canadian" goes around
>like Stephane and calls us "damn frogs" and "funcken frogs", then we are
>in trouble. Did you see much of that around Waterloo ?

Come on, Gerald. Don't get me wrong. People here are fantastic. 

But for example, when I see a respected journalist write that "PQ members 
should be put in jail", or that the Canadian Rating Bond Service
give a bad mark to Quebec for political reasons only (OK, there is
possibility of independance, but FOR GOD'S SAKE WAIT FOR THE
REFERENDUM!!!), when I see a future NHL hockey player snobing my
own town, I don't see any change in Canada's attitude.

(Yes, a hockey player is not a typical person, but in this particular
case, his parents - who tell him what to do - may be)
(The journalist is Diane Francis of the Financial Post. She has also
a column in MacLean's)
   
About people here, I met only friendly people.

But you should read the Kitchener-Waterloo Record: the letters about
Quebec are not what we could call "friendly".
I don't know at all if I should consider the opinions expressed as
those of the majority. If so, well, Canada has a very long way to
go toward "unity".

>SC2:You should see that, Gerald. You have been part of a minority in Quebec
>SC2:(I am assuming you are an English-Quebecker).
>
>Hmmm. I never made that assumption... If it helps you to pigeon-hole me
>and my opinions, you can certainly assume this. Of course, the accuracy   
>of your assumption leaves much to be desired, especially if you reread
>the previous posting.

Well, a couple of weeks ago, when the "thread" "When do we stop being
outsiders..." began, I was flamed by a "Gerald" (an English-Quebecker).
If it's not you, so it's someone else.

>Gerald P Heckman
>Universite de Waterloo,
>Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.

Sylvain Chamberland
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.

Xref: sparky can.general:2160 ont.general:706