HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:48:31 GMT

z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

>	Its not that the spells are different, its that the character's
>training is different. A priest trains in armor, and is use to it. A mage does
>not train in armor, and is not used to it. To say that if a mage wears armor
>he cannot cast any spells is ludicrous. I allow mages to buy (with proficiency
>slots) familiarity with armor. Not having familiarity hurts just about anything
>they try to do in armor. But they can still try it.

Well, if you start altering the basic tenets of ADD, why bother playing it?
If you want mages who wear armor and people able to learn all kinds of
skills, try GURPS or Palladium or any of the other number of very good
systems out there.

It seems like a huge amount of work to alter the ADD system way away from
what it starts out as - a simplistic fantasy game. ADD's strength has never
been its' realism, it has always been that it is very simple to play. 

Axly

Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.dnd:3090 rec.arts.sf.written:11517
From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Worm Ouroboros
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:53:55 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Aug26.042013.484@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>>nice if Eddison had had a good editor, but he didn't, so we have to
>>live with what he wrote.  I believe that the virtues of this book are
>>sufficiently great that it is worth making the effort.
>
>Truly, if you like fantasy and have not read this book, you owe it to
>yourself to give it a try. As C.S. Lewis said about it, it is "good beyond
>hope". I've just dug out my edition, and I'm going to read it again.

Um, that's Lewis' comment on The Lord of the Rings, not The Worm Ouroboros.

Not to say that TWO isn't worth reading too.  :-)

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:16:24 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <66908@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>In article <BtJuJ2.C4L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
[Deleted]

>Oh, so in your campaign, the paladin talks to his deity?  Like, on a
>daily basis?  Or is it just when he gets into tough situations?  Funny,
>'cause I play a cleric and I've never gotten any advice from my deity.
>Or any coversation.  Only spells.

Actually, that's not true.  Last time I DM'd with your cleric playing, he 
got a message from his deity.  Whether he understood it or not is something
else altogether.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever *asked* your deity anything?  Deities 
are generally fairly conversant with their priests if approached properly.

-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dwarf Women with bears, Not!
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:00:30 GMT
 <BtL20p.3sH@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <l9nbv7INNsp@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
 <1992Aug27.221722.17910@ncmicro.lonestar.org>
 <1992Aug28.100051.1@wharton.upenn.edu>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <1992Aug28.100051.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
says:
>
>[a lot of stuff concerning female dwarves, bears, beer, beards, bread,
> bards and broads delete for the sake of sanity]
>
>I don't know what all the muss and fuss about female dwarf bards is. If
>you've ever heard dwarves sing "Scarborough Fair" or "Chicken in the
>Straw" you will understand that it is unlikely for a dwarf, whether
>breaded or not, to be a bard. Besides, they have such stubby fingers and
>can't play a normal lute or lyre. Maybe a fat-necked ukelele would work,
>but I don't know.
>
>I think the more important question is "Do female dwarves wear barding
>and serve bread at their boarding houses?"

Good try Loren, but I'm afraid you missed the *REAL QUESTION* !!!

And that is:

"Do female dwarves, commonly known as Bearded Broads, wear barding and
 serve bread, beer and barbecued boar to bored Bards at their boarding
 brothels while breeding barbate bears bare breasted ?"

-- Jose L. Martinez --
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: prayers vs wizardry (was Re: Why are their level limits?
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:23:33 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <l9t7trINNkc6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, paul@legoland.Eng.Sun.COM (Paul Pantera) writes:
>>|> >So, how do you explain that a cleric can cast spells in armor?
>>|> 
>>|> Because cleric spells are different than wizard spells.  
>>
>>Now that's not much more of an explaination than "'cause" would be.
> 
> The magic that comes from Clerical spells comes from the Cleric's God, and
> therefore the magic is totally different from the magic of a mage.  This type
> of magic does not require as complicated of movements, and can therefore be
> accomplished while wearing armor.
> 

	Unfortuantely, this means that the clerical Detect/Remove Magic will
not function with regards to mage magic, and mage Detect/Remove Magic will not
work against clerical spells. This means that clerical spells are not affected
by Anti-Magic Shell. Are monster's magic resistance good versus clerical or
mage spells, or both? Which forms of magic does magic protections (rings,
cloaks, etc) affect?
	If the two types of magic are different, there must be noticable
differences in them. Having the only difference being 'you can wear armor for
one' is a bit of a crock. The AD&D rules imply that the two types of magic are
really just one type.
	Also, there is nothing in the rules that says that clerical magic
requires any fewer or easier motions than a mage's.

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Origin of the 2nd ed. Ranger
From: alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Date: 29 Aug 92 14:05:48 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
No, no, no... Nasir is an assassin: he's a foreigner, wears black clothing
all the time and never pets animals :-)

I write:
Sorry you lost me.  Indeed, Nasir is a Saracen (like Azeem was in the 
Costner version--many of the Robin Hood tales include Saracens).  Two what he
wears is black studded leather (just like our Rangers).  He tracks (in fact
only one of the "Merry Men" I've seen track, although admittedly there may
be others).  And no one pets animals on that show on any regular basis.  
Two weapons, tracking, studded leather, a woodsman.  Call him an assassin
(even Little John worked for the Sorceror Simon d'Beleme) or what you will,
but he looks to fit the mould pretty darn well to me.

Admittedly, though, the Ranger design was taken from many locations, not
just one, but Nasir seems to be the closest bloody thing I've ever seen.

BTW, just a question.  Struck me funny:  He's A FOREIGNER!  When did that
ever stop anyone from being a Ranger?!  :)

 

 
Later,
 
Lee Valentine
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 19:12:49 GMT


I have the SSI games myself.  I tend to have  two fighter/mages
for archers,  and they can wear plate mail and cast.  I don't
know if their casting time was affected by the armor or not..
which game did you get the information from?
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology-Office of Information Technology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:22:09 EDT
From: Paul Goodwin <CC100PG@GITVM1.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Set to talk about Set

In article <1992Aug26.180214.15132@husc3.harvard.edu>,
alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine) says:
>
>What the heck gives?  Clue on this subject would be appreciated.  Who is the
>god?  What's he look like?  Does he have anything to do with venomous thises
>and thats?
>Later,
>Lee Valentine

I'd recommend looking up Set in a good dictionary, encyclopaedia, or book on
mythology.  You'll get your best answers there.  He's an Egyptian deity.

Paul
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Role Playing in Middle Earth
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:39:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: burrhus.1992Sep2.153907.27021
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <MJB.92Sep1170238@srl07.cacs.usl.edu> mjb@srl07.cacs.usl.edu (Matthew Brumley) writes:
>Well, I was wondering how many DMs use Middle Earth as their setting?  

	I'm not right at the moment, but I have before and probably will
again.  M-e is a big influence on my own campaign world.

>I bought the Middle Earth Role Playing game a while back (and I really like it,
>as far as game mechanics are concerned), but I've hesitated (perhaps far too 
>long) to play it.  

	Join the ICE-l <ice-request@gyaos.kpno.noao.edu>, home of MERP and
Rolemaster and other fun things!

>And a couple of other things
>I think of mithril as this mystical metal, found only at the heart of the 
>oldest of mountains...  Yet, I might want to introduce a sword (or perhaps a
>light suit of chain mail) made of mithril.  I want to convey that same sense of
>mystery that I get when I read about it in the Lord of the Rings.  It is 
>somehow...  different from other metals, but I can't find a trait that would be
>suitable (pardon the STUPID pun) for such a valued prize.  

	Much of the mystery about mithril in LOTR is generated by everyone
going on about how wonderful it is.  If you give something like this to the
players have everyone the meet who would recognize it go into shock.  That
might impress them with how amazing it is.  It's also very shiny stuff,
like brighty polished silver (it doesn't tarnish) rather than dull old
steel.
	In MERP/RM terms mithril is +20 which is +4 in AD&D.  It also has a
much better chance of affecting undead/huge monsters/etc. than weapons made
with other materials.  You might want the throw that +4 into certain saving
throws if you were feeling really nice.

>(I know, this is stupid) In the MERP game (not the novels), would the Ring
>allow it's bearer to attack while he/she was invisible?  No, I'm not gonna let
>players use it in a game (tho' a short, wicked little fellow might attack the 
>party)...

	Yes.  This was how Gollum caught fish and Orcs and things,
remember?  No problem attacking while wearing a Ring of Power, especially
if it's THE Ring of Power!  When you wear one, you are not so much
invisible as on the same plane of existance as the Nazgul and other Ring
wearers.  I believe Elves also exist on both that plane and the material
one.

>(sheesh, some of my players don't even know what a hobbit is...)

	Shocking.  Don't they educate people anymore?

Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: williaid@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Would like list of new magic
Reply-To: williaid@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:55:17 GMT

     I play with a group of experienced players, and would like to give them something new and creative to play with; new items and spells ect.  I have a few ideas but I would like to have the input of some creative DM and players as to what you have come up with that is funny but not too outrageous.   All new magic items and spells appreciated.    
thanks in advance
From: lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Origin of the 2nd ed. Ranger
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:49:18 GMT
Organization: Vidal Sassoon's Mosh&Go

In article <1992Aug29.140549.15208@husc3.harvard.edu> alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine) writes:

   I wrote:

   No, no, no... Nasir is an assassin: he's a foreigner, wears black clothing
   all the time and never pets animals :-)

   I write:
   Sorry you lost me.  Indeed, Nasir is a Saracen (like Azeem was in the 
   Costner version--many of the Robin Hood tales include Saracens).  Two what h
   wears is black studded leather (just like our Rangers).  He tracks (in fact
   only one of the "Merry Men" I've seen track, although admittedly there may
   be others).  And no one pets animals on that show on any regular basis.  
   Two weapons, tracking, studded leather, a woodsman.  Call him an assassin
   (even Little John worked for the Sorceror Simon d'Beleme) or what you will,
   but he looks to fit the mould pretty darn well to me.

   Admittedly, though, the Ranger design was taken from many locations, not
   just one, but Nasir seems to be the closest bloody thing I've ever seen.

I vaguely remember that Nasir was hired to kill RH... Hardly rangerish 
behaviour. But you're right on the tracking/clothing. In an ages old WD
there was an article that claimed all Merry Men to be assassins, but that
was back in 1st Ed, when they had the Acme-Insta-Killum ability.

   BTW, just a question.  Struck me funny:  He's A FOREIGNER!  When did that
   ever stop anyone from being a Ranger?!  :)

Not just a foreigner, but clearly a man of the Hashishim (huge sp?) sect, the
were the original assassins. But I must admit that I was convinced that he was
from a desert/wasteland (looks like it), and as such wouldn't be much use in
the woods.

   Later,

   Lee Valentine
--
Ville Lavonius	        University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : I'm the son of a gun and the gun of a son
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Question on Armor Class
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:43:20 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

morpheus@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Morpheus Nosferatu) writes:

>Does anyone have any idea why they did AC in the strange manner they did?
>The only thing that comes to mind is that in the beginning they never
>planned on the possibility of negative Armor Classes.  But platemail,
>shield, and 18 Dex gives and AC of -2, so even without magic bonuses
>negative Armor Classes are still possible.

    Actually, to get that negative 2 you would need Bracers of
Defense(AC 2), because according to the rules Plate is too buly for you
to receive your Dex bonus.

--
-Hades (Brian V. Hughes) Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info
		   "A clear case of curare poisoning
	       of one of her Majesty's Cold-Cream Guards"
						   -- Durlock Holmes
From: gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:06:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: miavx1.1992Aug29.140643.12395
Distribution: na
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <67045@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
> In article <67022@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

>>>So, how do you explain that a cleric can cast spells in armor?
>>Because cleric spells are different than wizard spells.  
> Very convienent.

No, clerics can cast spells in armor because their spells are granted by the
immense power of their god or goddess. The cleric is merely a channel through
which the magic flows. Th cleric is in no way creating the power that they
chennel, they lack the strength to do so. Since they are only channeling units,
they do not require the incredibly intricate somatic movements that MU spells
require. 

> Exactly!!!  I started this entire thread to point out that the reason
> these limitations exist is to maintain game balance.  After making up the
> limitations, they made up the rationalizations.  But the limitations came
> FIRST, and they came first because the writers were trying to maintain
> game balance.

What's wrong with that, heck, I bet you'd be surprised at how often that
occurs. What you are saying now is like saying the rule that you need to gain
ten yards to get a first down in American football doesn't make sanse because
they just set an arbitrary limit. No kidding, you have to set the limit
somewhere. If we all knew whet would work best each time we tryed to do
something, we'd never learn, cause we'd never make mistakes.

>>No, because specialization comes from an intensive study of the art of using
>>a weapon.  If a cleric gets into intensive study of weapons, he's *not* 
>>devoting sufficient time to his priestly duties, and is therefore a bad cleric.
> 
> I notice you conviniently deleted the previous poster's words.  He had
> said that after a fighter uses the same weapon for 10 years, he becomes
> specialized with it.  I was just pointing out the flaw in that logic.

Doesn't matter at this point because he's right though. A cleric who would
rather become specialized in a weapon is not only a bad cleric, he is insulting
their deity because he obviously doesn't have faith in their god to protect 
them if they feel the need to specialise in a weapon.

> -- 
> Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
> Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
> Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."

Greg Jensen aka:
	Thief extraordinaire!!!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: Re: Question Re: Alignments
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc 
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:39:43 GMT

In article <71zpbjyg@cck.coventry.ac.uk> gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre) writes:
>In article <1992Sep02.135848.23100@ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:

Sorry about the last article being posted here - I hadn't read the bit about
the follow-up (which didn't appear on my screen anyway, so I figured it was a 
damned lie 8*) to this newsgroup. I've hopefully re-directed any follow-ups
to THIS article which is the follow-up to my LAST article to rgf.misc, which
is where the bloody discussion is going on. Tis Mister Dunn who sent me here,
not me. I apologise most profusely.

Yours,


-- 
        	 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**			
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
     "It'll be a cold night tonight... If it's cold." - Iain Morales
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: wbennett@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William F Bennett)
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:16:03 GMT

In article <LAVONIUS.92Aug27180925@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki
.FI (Ville Lavonius) writes:

>
>Min-maxers try to create a strongest possible character from a given amount
>of dice/points/whatever. They try to find loopholes in the system, and
>all in all create "totally intense" characters. Usually combat monsters
>in fantasy games. In play min-maxers can play very well (in fact, the best
>player I know is a self-confessed MM'er), they just use the best available
>tactics in every situation, and take all combats seriously.
>

= Type A personalities

>On the other hand, munchkins begin character creation by whining that they
>don't have enough bingies to create a feasible character. In play munchkins
>usually talk of non-character things like AC or use ability numbers. They
>won't always choose best tactics, if someone annoys a munchkin PLAYER, that
>character is dead meat. During breaks in the game munchkins don't talk about
>anything else than the game.
>

= Immaturity


>Blasphemy or seeds of truth ?
>
>   Pete.
>--
>Ville Lavonius             University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
>lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : I'm the son of a gun and the gun of a son
-- 
*******************************************************************************
Bill Bennett              Dept of Radiology           The Ohio State University

*********************  wbennett@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ********************
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: prayers vs wizardry (was Re: Why are their level limits?
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:28:58 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug29.100720.3825@ncsu.edu>, mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL RONN MARCELAIS) writes:
> In article <1992Aug29.022333.724@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> |> 	Unfortuantely, this means that the clerical Detect/Remove Magic will
> |> not function with regards to mage magic, and mage Detect/Remove Magic will not
> |> work against clerical spells. This means that clerical spells are not affected
> |> by Anti-Magic Shell. Are monster's magic resistance good versus clerical or
> |> mage spells, or both? Which forms of magic does magic protections (rings,
> |> cloaks, etc) affect?
> |> 	If the two types of magic are different, there must be noticable
> |> differences in them. Having the only difference being 'you can wear armor for
> |> one' is a bit of a crock. The AD&D rules imply that the two types of magic are
> |> really just one type.
> |> 	Also, there is nothing in the rules that says that clerical magic
> |> requires any fewer or easier motions than a mage's.
> 
> Look at it this way:  Mages research their spells and use their intelligence
> to come up with a formula that causes something to happen.  This often
> requires elaborate gestures or digging through pockets for spell components,
> and hence mages can't cast spells with armor on.

	I (and many other DMs) do not require spell components.

> 
> Clerics on the other hand, ask their diety to activate the spell that they
> have chosen.  Rarely are spell components needed for spells of short casting
> times and never elaborate gestures.  They don't do anything, they depend on
> their faith (ie wisdom) that their god will cast the spell they asked him to.
> 

	Since there is nothing 'official' about it, I rules that clerics
channel the power of their god/dess through themselves, using prayers (spells)
to entreat their diety (or, more likely, his minions) for assistance. The power
of his diety is then transfered from the priest to the real world in whatever
effect he was attempting. In this transfer from the priest to the real world,
the priest should be restricted no more or no less than mages. My decision was
to say that armor does not interfere with spell casting.

Brandon Cope
From: pluther@percy.rain.com (Pat Luther)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: What is with these Katana's?
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:46:23 GMT
Organization: Percy's mach, Portland, OR


In article <1992Aug28.200413.21792@burrhus.harvard.edu>, canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>	Here's something I've been wondering about for quite some time:
>Why does a katana do d10 damage in AD&D?  Why is it so much better than a
>scimitar or even a long sword.  Don't make sense to me.

Because a katana is a two-handed sword!
(at least, the one's I've seen are very long, and have hilt of such
a size that two hands fit on it quite well.  I also generally see them
used two-handed in ninja movies.)
do the rules specifically say they're one-handed?
There is a smaller sword, which is vaguely similar, called a wakizashi,
which is used one-handed....

					??pat

-- 
Pat Luther: Lex's Evil Twin
picard!pat@percy.rain.com <-- NeXTmail OK.
pluther@percy.rain.com (sometimes quicker)
luther@uop.edu (slowest of all...)