From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Fester, the know-it-all (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:13:18 GMT
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

(all deleted)

Mike wanted to make sure I read his reply, because he also sent
it to me on e-mail after I had already posted my reply.  
I want to thank Mike for the e-mail because it gave me another
chance to read what he wrote, and detect something strange in
his fountain of knowledge.

But before getting to that, I confess that I am not good at
endless network exchanges, so I'll summarize my sense of our
differences in opinion, let others ponder these differences, 
and, hopefully, move onto fresher topics.

Mike's points are :

   1. whites abroad experience what an AA experiences in this country.
   2. whites have no particular priviledge when abroad.
   3. whites experience discrimination but are "optimistic" about it.
   4. the US and Europe (yes, no?) are ahead of other places in 
      racial equality.

My points are :
   
   1. whites abroad experience some but not all of what an AA 
      experiences, due to cultural and economic advantages and
      an expatriate mentality providing them with an emotional out.
   2. whites abroad are no more resistant to whining than anyone else.
   3. it's impossible to categorize the US or Europe as having
      more racial equality than elsewhere.

I think everyone will agree that the above are all subjective
opinions, and that the exchange can go on forever. 


In the midst of his opinions and innuendos about my ignorance
and lack of interest, though, Mike has made a few statements that 
can be checked against facts. 

In comparing discrimination against Korean in Japan to that 
against Blacks in this country, I was noticeably more upbeat
than self-professed race-relations optimist Mike :

-------
ME:
 
>>>Who's to say where Japan would be in the future ? Compare the two most 
>>>persecuted groups in the two nations, Koreans in Japan to Blacks in 
>>>America, and I won't make any bets on which group would first achieve 
>>>equality.

MIKE:

>>And how long have Koreans been in Japan? (A hint: longer than the US has
>>existed).

-------
Thanks for Mike's hint, but I'm afraid he's way off base. I'm
frankly surprised that, having lived in Japan, he would make such
a statement (could it be that he wasn't interested or just didn't 
care about the Koreans when he was in Japan ? :-)). 
 
The Korean community in Japan is a legacy of Japanese imperialism 
and actually newer than the Asian American, let alone the African 
American community ! According to the _Keihokyoku Report_ (Naimusho, 
1945), the Korean population in Japan was : 

     1909     790      1930      298,091 
     1915   3,989      1940    1,190,444 
     1920  30,175      1944    1,936,843 

Before Japanese annexation, there was no Korean community to speak of.  
After that, there was a steadily increasing trickle who went to 
Japan in search of work, which during the war years turned into mass
involuntarily labor conscription that pushed the Korean population
in Japan to 2.4 million by 1945. Most of these Koreans were 
repatriated after the war, but 700,000 have remained, making 
them the largest group of resident aliens in Japan. In 1980, the 
community is 25% of Korean birth, 75% of Japanese birth, with 
second- and third-generation being the most prevalent. The 
intermarriage rate with Japanese is currently around 50%.  

With even my suspect interest in non-Asian subjects, I do recall
that the Slave Trade peaked in the mid-1700's and was banned by 1808. 
This means that all African Americans have roots in the US stretching
back at least 180 years, i.e., many times longer that of the Koreans 
in Japan.

I make this correction primarily to counteract the inference that
Japanese discrimination against Koreans is deeper than racial
discrimination in the U.S. This is NOT to say that anti-Korean 
prejudice or racial discrimination do not exist in Japan. They 
do, just like racism and discrimination exist in the U.S.  
And there are Japanese I've talked to who think it's wrong,
just like there are many Americans who think racial prejudice
is wrong here.

If we are truly to be "optimistic" about race relations, we should 
be optimistic all around, and give others the same benefit of 
doubt that we give ourselves. Otherwise, we're just peddling a 
"leyenda blanca" (apologies to the Spanish) - a "legend" that 
the whites are somehow gentler and kinder people.

Joe Huang

p.s., Mike, don't humor us with historical anecdotes about the 
rumored Korean ancestry of the Japanese imperial line 1500 years 
ago, or Hideyoshi's importation of Korean potters and scholars 
500 years ago :-).