From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Chinese-American Mental Strategies
Keywords: curious mail
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:59:28 GMT


Over the last several months, I have received much mail from Mr. Wilbur Pan
(u58402@uicvm.uic.edu).  He's an example of someone who has been probing
my background; he's Chinese-cu afterall.  Perhaps, we can learn something
about one aspect of Chinese-cu mentality that has no parallel in Western
thought.  His behavior, as that of a Chinese-cu, is quite different from those
who are Chinese-ge but not Chinese-cu.

You silent readers of this newsgroup must have read about stories where
the Chinese gov'ts on China, Singapore, and Taiwan has been involved in
spying on its own citizens when the only crime that they've committed is
to air their opinions.  Mr. Pan is an example of that mentality.  Each e-mail
from him has attempted to allude to something in my background.
(Note that I do _not_ acknowledge and do _not_ comment on the accuracy of
his probings.)

As a Westerner, I don't see the point of his probing.  Further, I don't
see the point of his sending numerous copies of Usenet postings, in
their entirety, to me.

Hence, I shall post his e-mail, in its entirety, on this group from this
point forward.  Unfortunately, I did not keep his earlier e-mail.  They
amounted to several kilobytes of storage.

DISCLAIMER:  I do not agree, condone, nor acknowledge in any way what
he says.  This posting is only meant to be an illustration of the
Chinese-cu mentality.

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Date: 13 September 1992 15:20:57 CDT
To: underdog@leland.stanford.edu (Dwight Joe)
Subject:     Re: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Status: RO


=========================================================================


I know your time is too valuable to be reading through every post in
s.c.a.a. I have therefore taken the time to neatly package these posts
for you.

How's Truman?

Have a nice day.

Wilbur Pan
==============================================

Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 10:14:46 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
 <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU>

In article <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) says:
>
>Being Chinese-cu has nothing to do with being Chinese-ge.  Only a
>racist would think that there's something unnatural about
>Chinese-(ge)-Americans "who have no Chinese 'culture' in them".
>Racists think that genes determine behavior; one such racist
>is Mr. Wilbur Pan (u58402@uicvm.uic.edu).
>


     "When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, I
choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
     "The question is," said Alice, "whether you _can_ make words mean
so many different things."
     "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master --
that's all."
                     --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass


Mr. Joe seems to take Humpty Dumpty's position on the use of the English
language. The definition of racist is one who believes in the inherent
superiority of one race over others, and based on that belief, believes
that discrimination is therefore justified. It does not mean a belief
that genes determine behavior; if that were so, then a great deal of
modern medicine would be considered racist.

Calling someone racist does not make him one.

I have never said, nor do I believe, that the Chinese people are
inherently superior to other peoples. Nor have I said that other races
are somehow inferior to the Chinese. What I do believe is that each
nationality has its own special qualities, and vive la difference.

Being a Chinese-American, I draw from both cultures. Mr. Joe seems unable to
comprehend the possibility that one can draw from two equally rich heritages.

Mr. Joe has repeatedly stated that he believes Chinese culture should be
wiped from the face of the earth. This includes, by his definition, the
arts, dance, music, and literature. He has stated that Chinese culture
is inferior to American culture without acknowledging elements of racism
in American and European history. (And if you think that these elements
are buried in the past, talk to the people in Sarajevo or south central
L.A.) This is the definition of a racist.

Mr. Joe has also made up quotes to support his arguments. This makes him
a liar and a racist.

Unless, of course, Mr. Joe is himself Chinese. Then he is only a liar.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)


=========================================================================
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 10:44:41 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
 <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1992Sep8.132644.13167@panix.com>

In article <1992Sep8.132644.13167@panix.com>, nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan) says:
>
>Why is this an either/or proposition?  The whole point of Mr. Cheng's post
>is that he identifies with BOTH Chinese and American (or Western, if you
>prefer, though I think that term's a little broad) culture, and would like
>to integrate the two.  An admirable, though difficult goal, and one that I
>think many of us on s.c.a.a. are struggling with.
>
And a goal that is true of just about any immigrant generation. Most of
the Chinese people I know are either immigrant or first generation
Chinese-American. The responses to this problem vary widely from total
immersion in Chinese culture to total assimilation. Some people only
want to have Chinese friends, others only want to have non-Chinese
friends. The vast majority, however, find themselves falling between the
two ends of the spectrum.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)


=========================================================================
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 13 Sep 1992 15:14:29 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
 <1992Sep9.165911.27067@panix.com> <1992Sep9.221415.17665@leland.Stanford.EDU>

In article <1992Sep9.221415.17665@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) says:
>
>By the way, Ms. Yuan's arguments might be more convincing if her facts
>were correct.  She wrote, "...shared by billions of people..."  This would
>suggest that she is referring to at least 2 billion since "billions"
>is plural.
>


Mr. Joe has a history of making up facts and quotes to bolster his weak,
irrational, arguments.

Mr. Joe twists the definition of words to suit his purposes.

This is rather like the pot calling the kettle black, is it not?

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)



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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american