HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Want Location of Unusual Games in LV
Summary: Where are they?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 15:27:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

I am interested in unusual and new casino games being offered in Las
Vegas.  What have all you rec.gamblers seen out there?

The list of games that I know of casinos offering in LV follows:

Slots (most casinos)
Craps (most casinos)
Video Poker (most casinos)
Blackjack (most casinos) (including o/u, other side bets)
Keno (most casinos)
Baccarat & Mini-Baccarat (many casinos)
Roulette (Most casinos)
Poker (many casinos)
Red Dog (some casinos)
Pai Gow (a few casinos)
Pai Gow Poker (a few casinos) *
Carribean Stud Poker (Trop, others?)
Quarter drop machine (Trop, others?)
the Australian Coin Tossing Game (Main St. Station)
Sports Book (some casinos)
Fast Action Hold'Em (where?) **
Money Wheel (some places)
Chuck-a-Luck (Riviera) [This is the 3 dice in a cage game]

* Does anyone have a definitive set of rules on how the casinos set the
dealers hand?
** Does anyone have a set of rules for this?

If anyone has an addition to this let me know by email (to the address
below) or post.  If there is interest, I'll repost the entire list.

-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
|   **** Papoon for President! You Know He's Not Insane!! ****
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Peanuts! Kelly Criterion Strategy Adjustments! Popcorn!
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:06:31 GMT

I should add that my modified program to compute splitting adjustments
properly has not completed even one count level in the last two days
of CPU time.  I don't see any approximations that can be made - the
split hands have to be resolved one after the other in order to
determine the expected log of the bankroll after the round, which
creates a combinatorial explosion.  Any ideas from Steve Jacobs,
Steve Markowitz, or others?

-- 
Michael Hall            \ Happiness is... making a big cover bet off the top of
NASA Ames Research Center\ a freshly shuffled deck and getting a blackjack,
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \ while the pit boss is watching.

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: BJ: Peanuts! Kelly Criterion Strategy Adjustments! Popcorn!
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:31:28 GMT

On the Kelly criterion strategy adjustments, I fixed the values for
the dealer 10 and Ace columns.  They were indeed wrong.  No change
to the other columns.  I'll repost at some point.

-- 
Michael Hall            \ The Jelly criterion says, to a first approximation,
NASA Ames Research Center\ to spread proportional to your peanut butter and
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \ your bread.  It is the optimal way to make a PBJ.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Marc.Ringuette@daisy.learning.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Head Up Hold'em
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:43:00 GMT

> [ What's the best hand to hold vs. two red aces in hold 'em? ]

I agree with Michael that 7-8 of clubs or spades is best.  Any higher
and you start having fewer winning straights.  But did you notice why
you shouldn't choose  6-7 instead of 7-8?  The differences are obscure, 
because it almost never matters whether you hold a 6 or an 8 versus aces.  
Here are the only two cases I could find:
  (1) compare holding 6-7 when the flop is 8-8-8-6-6 (you lose) 
      vs. holding 7-8 when the flop is 6-6-6-8-8 (you win).  
  (2) compare holding 6-7 when the flop is a flush down to the 8 of your 
      suit (you tie) vs. holding 7-8 when the flop is a flush to the 6 
      of your suit (you win)

So 7-8 beats 6-7 in those cases.  All others look symmetric.

I'm pretty sure that choosing connectors higher than 7-8 gives up too
many winning straights to be an improvement, but I haven't counted it
out exactly.


M.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Roulette
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:26:26 GMT

In article <182766@pyramid.pyramid.com> breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.144442.26263@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray) writes:
>>
>>         I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know
>>if it's possible to throw a ball to within five numbers- i.e. no more than
>>two either side of a chosen number- at roulette? I have a friend who's
>>dad is a casino manager and he claims that it can be and is done all the time
>>whenever a large bet is placed.
>>
>I've heard the same thing: the wheel is generally moving at such a 
>predictable rate that long-time dealers can actually release the ball 
>with some degree of accuracy in hitting at least a quadrant.  Urban 
>myth or no, I've wondered why a similar skill couldn't be developed 
>by a player at predicting the ball drop, no felony required.

An article in the current issue of Blackjack Forum addresses this.
The author, Forte, did not believe this.  I personally believe that
people can do just about anything given 8 hours a day for 20 years to
learn.

>Ian Anderson, in his apochrophal book "Turning Tables on LV", claims that 
>he saw a guy who could control how the dice came up when he rolled them.  
>I'd take this story with a truckload of salt.  

Peter Griffin, in his apochrophal book "Gambling Ramblings", claims that
he saw a guy who could control how the dice came up when he rolled them.
I believe him 100%.  (He had to back down from his previous math weenie
opinion that craps was a game of pure luck, unbeatable in the long run.)

-- 
Michael Hall            \
NASA Ames Research Center\ Card counters do it with penetration.
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \
From: jimp@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Jim Piercy)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Very Short Poker Quiz
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:38:07 GMT


Here's a one question poker quiz that may be obvious to most players,
but might be of use to some.  I'll use Hold'em for the question, but
the point may be applied to 7-Card Stud and other stud variants.

Question:
You are on the dealer button in a 10-handed, structured limit Hold'em 
game holding JC 9C.  Only one player drops before it gets to you, so
you call.  The small blind calls and big blind checks.  The flop comes:

	KD	7S	10H

The small blind bets and gets four callers before it's your turn.  What
do you do?


My answer:


Raise!  You are on the come for an "inside-out" straight; either an 
eight or a queen gives you a straight.  Raising gives you a better
chance for a free card if the turn (fourth card) doesn't make your
hand.

This type of hand comes up more often than one might think.  For
example, you might play A 8 suited and the flop comes 10 J Q.

Please send me e-mail for the address to send my share of your profits
from this play. :-)

Jim Piercy
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Surrender Indication?
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:53:50 EST

When sitting at a BJ table in say Las Vegas,
what is the appropriate way to indicate a surrender.
Also, what is the difference between "early surrender"
and "surrender" I am a little unclear on this.

Thanks
jim

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: BJ strategy diff. (need help on  h,dd,s)
In-reply-to: jj@slc.mentorg.com's message of 22 Jul 92 13:43:06
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<JACOBS.92Jul18101647@cells.cs.utah.edu> <182725@pyramid.pyramid.com>
	<JJ.92Jul22134306@presto.slc.mentorg.com>
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:35:58

In article <JJ.92Jul22134306@presto.slc.mentorg.com> jj@slc.mentorg.com (Jeff Jennings) writes:
>>>>>> On 21 Jul 92 16:05:23 GMT, breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) said:
>
>Bill> So, we can take a 500 unit bankroll, plug in an A8 v 6 as the hand, 
>Bill> fly through two multi-million hand simulations playing it out both 
>Bill> ways, and wind up with a higher ROI for not doubling?  Let's do it.
>
>I've already run similar simulations that confirm Steve's analysis.
>
>Bill> I would encourage anyone who actually bought this analysis to seek 
>Bill> analysis.  
>
>Do you have any recommendations?
>
>So Bill, because you don't understand what Steve is talking about it
>must be useless, right?  I found this to be very interesting and am working
>on incorporating his formulas into a program to find strategy index
>values for counting systems.
>
>I can't believe I'm letting myself get involved in this.

Yeah, I wish I'd bailed out as soon as I saw that first cow flying
over the wall....

"Run away.....Run away....."
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Subject: Re: BJ strategy diff. (need help on  h,dd,s)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:18:14 GMT

In article <182751@pyramid.pyramid.com> breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes:
>In another article Jacko writes:
>
>>I'm sure this stuff is super-neat-o to all the non-playing experts
>>out there, but from the perspective of a practicing player, what I want
>>to know is at what (positive) true count is the crossover point where
>>doubling A-8 vs 6 becomes more "utilitarian" so to speak?  For example,
>>according to Griffin (Peter, not Merv), the removal effect of a 3, 4, or 5
>>from the deck for this play is greater than 3%, in favor of doubling.  
>
>I know at a +10 count you gain 2.24% by doubling this hand.  But then you 

Just curious, where did you come up with this 2.24% figure?

Jacko.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION: Reno for Cheapskates
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:06:40 GMT

In article <BrqwrI.wC@hpbs654.boi.hp.com> kmarko@hpbs654.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:

>Cal-Neva had a couple of $1 tables last year (upper level).  One shoe,
>one single deck.  They were always busy, but the single-decker was
>great practice for counting as the dealers were _slow_ and left the
>cards up a long time; standard N. Nev. rules.

Not standard NN rules, better.  On the upper level the single deck
rules are double on anything, late surrender, hit soft 17, and no
insurance.

-- 
Michael Hall            \ Coming soon on Pi Yee Press, Stanford Wong's latest:
NASA Ames Research Center\"Professional Quarter-Pusher-Machine-Playing",
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \discount available through whinestuck@sdi.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:34:03 GMT

ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice) writes:

>My question though is this. If this state run gamblimg machine that
>we call the lottery donates all profits (I don't beleive it but...)
>charities then does that mean that we can claim these lotto tickets
>as charitable contributions when it comes tax time?

>Just a thought.



I LIKE this thought!!  Makes sense to me (which absolutely guarantees
it won't make sense to the government!!)

How can we check up on this??

Anne


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:32:03 GMT

>pmfusari@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Fusari) writes:
>
>>For anyone out there who is interested in spotting trends in the winning Lotto 
>>6/49 numbers, I have just completed a study on 10 years of 6/49 draws. 
>...
>>interested.  In order to cover the cost of the copies and binding, I am
>>charging a fee of $7.95 per copy.  Satisfaction is guaranteed.  If you  
>>would like a copy, send cheque or m/o to P. Fusari, P.O.Box 26094
>>King Value Station, Kitchener, ON N2G 4V8.

Could you do us one favour Paul,

If anyone actually sends you the money Could you send us their address :-)

Matthew

Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: pmfusari@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Fusari)
Subject: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:06:45 GMT

For anyone out there who is interested in spotting trends in the winning Lotto 
6/49 numbers, I have just completed a study on 10 years of 6/49 draws. 
It includes analysis on number occurrences (how often each number is drawn),
how often certain numbers come up together, as well as range analysis (how
often the numbers fall within a certain range).  I've also included the 
winning numbers for the past 10 years and some tips on combining.  I've 
put all of this into a book and I would like to offer it to anyone who is
interested.  In order to cover the cost of the copies and binding, I am
charging a fee of $7.95 per copy.  Satisfaction is guaranteed.  If you  
would like a copy, send cheque or m/o to P. Fusari, P.O.Box 26094
King Value Station, Kitchener, ON N2G 4V8.


       



Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice)
Subject: Re: Rabbit Hunting?
Keywords: sickening
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: ont
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:40:56 GMT

In article <BryrC0.3An@world.std.com> ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz) writes:
>From the Bicycle Club Diamond Jim Brady Tournament "General Rules for 
>Satellite Games":
>
>13. No rabbit hunting.
>
>So, are rabbits out of season in August or what?
>-- 
Nope , it is because 'it's duck season.'

Matthew
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: does lightening strike twice, really ???!!!!
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:06:04 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Jul21.155118.26380@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> root@sickbay.austin.ibm.com writes:

>>In '79 this guy won 2.8million francs on the lottery (290000sterling).
>>Frittered it away, to the point where his phone was cut off, his car 
>>repossessed, and his family threatened with eviction.  How to get out of 
>>this fix?  Simple - he won the lottery again! 17million francs, or 1.
>>76million pounds sterling.
>>Some people......
> It is really, truely unbelievable ! But lemme ask ya, how did he "frittered"
> it away ? Bought blue chip stocks, or maybe some "good municipal bonds" ?
> Just a curious, inquiring mind want to know.    ;-)
> I used to be a broker, and I think this is a riot.
> Cheers
> AMN 
> Merril Lynch is bullish on America, so how can I sell the "World" short ??

I dunno, he didn't put any of it MY way!
But we had a TV show about soccer-pools winners a while back - a surprising 
number just can't handle big money, and end up broke a few years later.  The 
best known case in UK was Viv um wossername who appeared in the daily papers 
under the headline "I'm going to SPEND SPEND SPEND".  And she did: all of it.
The tendency is to dump your old method of producing income but neglect to 
replace it with sound investments.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Trip report Foxwood Conn.
Date: 23 Jul 1992 14:20:49 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Jul23.003059.2747@tc.cornell.edu> beers@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jim Beers) writes:
>I found myself need the Foxwood casino is Eastern Conn this weekend
>and I figure I probably owe a trip report since so many people 
>send reports about Vegas, and everybody loves a trip report.
[stuff deleted]

>So I sat down, 6 decks, (I think) and they dealt about %80.  DAS, one card
>on split A's, resplitting, DOA, and there was over/under side bet.

Could someone please post or send me the appropriate over-under count for
this game?  Am I correct in assuming that the over/under bet offers the best
odds for the player here (using the over/under count, of course)....?

>Jim


---Sean

-- 
"I believe in the rights of people to own firearms....  Private guns makes
every person equal, no matter what/who he/she is."	---Lu Gang, post-
doctoral student in Physics at the University of Iowa, who shot and killed two
of his professors, a rival post-doc, two staff, and then himself in 1991.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Dealer doesn't have BJ
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse)
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:53:44 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: as little as possible

I assume this to be that case but I just want to make sure.
Do the basic strategy tables, (for example in the FAQ), when
handling a dealer Ace up assume that the dealer doesn't have
blackjack...

Since if he did have blackjack the hand would be over. (Most places)
While if he didn't have blackjack you would know somethine
about the other card, namely it isn't a ten.

thanks
jim
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: EGG9EJS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Re: LV in August
Reply-To: eric@hup.ucla.edu
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:53:43 PDT

In article <jason.16@dcs.umd.edu>, on 22 Jul 92 15:34:20 GMT,
jason@dcs.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn) writes:

>
>
>I'm leaving for LV in about 2 weeks and was interested in any current playing
>conditions, meal bargains, or anything else worth mentioning to a first time
>LV goer...
>
>Where is the best cheap food?  Where are coupons found for table games?
>
I'm fond of the restaurant down the steps in the back of the Horseshoe
casino.  For breakfast 'the natural' is $2.00 including coffee.  After
10:00 PM (check on the time) the 'steak dinner' is also about $2.00.
The amazing thing is not the price, but the quality.  It's not gourmet
fare but it is very fresh and the ingredients are real.  Even the coffee
is good (and I havn't been satisfied since Pete's changed hands in
Berkeley.)

Having absolutely no self control I generally stay clear of buffets, but
a year or so back I was very happy with the GN.  You might want to try
it since you'll be there anyway.

As far as coupons go, you might try the visitor center on the strip, or
show your out of state drivers license at the 'welcome centers' in the
larger strip casinos.  The Tropicana used to have a decent one and the
Flamingo Hilton's used to be ok.  In general, I've found the coupon
books to be disappointing, compared with a few years ago.

I hate to admit it, but I think I probably owe 50% of my overall
winnings over the last several years to 'Ace' and 'match play'
coupons.  My partner and I were tossed out of the Dune's by a pit
critter for 'too much coupon play'.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: LV versus AC, compare & contrast
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:56:46 EST

It seems to me that the general opinion
of Atlantic City for playing BJ is that it
is less preferable that Las Vegas.

It seems that AC has less low minimum tables,
less favorable rules, more crowds...
Is there any thing else? Is there any dissension
to these opinions?

thanks
jim

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: erb@world.std.com (ed r baker)
Subject: Re: Question about those quarter games in archades
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:34:13 GMT

OK, I played these pusher machines in Vegas for $1's.  It was unbelievable.
The machine had the spinning bar, so there was no skill.  My $1 flew up and
went in the tiny bucket that moves back and forth.  Immediate $50 payoff, and
a free spin on the built-in slot machine.  The slot hit Jackpot, and paid
another $150.  The guy had to come and open the machine for the payoff; he
hated that machine.  It paid off so seldom, he didn't know how to work it.
He finally found the key and was able to pay me off.

On the same trip, I played a bet for my boss at work.  He gave me $5 and told
me to "play red, and let it ride for five bets".  It went $10, $20, $40, $80,
(some discussion between me and my friend if we should play it the fifth time),
$160.  He won.  What made it worse is that it was one of the first things we
did upon arriving.  We later lost $200 each and had to look at his $160 sitting
on the dresser.

Thanks to the pusher machine, I broke about even.  I played poker the rest of
the time.

-Ed Baker
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Dealer doesn't have BJ
In-reply-to: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu's message of 30 Jul 92 19:53:44 EST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:57:05

In article <1992Jul30.195344.784@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:
>
> I assume this to be that case but I just want to make sure.
> Do the basic strategy tables, (for example in the FAQ), when
> handling a dealer Ace up assume that the dealer doesn't have
> blackjack...

The basic strategy tables in the FAQ, and in most BJ books, are
computed assuming the dealer does not have a blackjack.  This is
correct strategy for almost all BJ tables in north america.  But,
the ace-up and ten-up tables are slightly incorrect if you are
playing with European rules (no hole card or dealer doesn't peak,
AND player loses extra bets from doubles/splits if dealer gets BJ).
Note that if the dealer doesn't peak, but only one bet is lost when
dealer has BJ (as in Atlantic City and most other no-peak games),
the correct strategy is identical to the strategy in the FAQ.

> Since if he did have blackjack the hand would be over. (Most places)
> While if he didn't have blackjack you would know somethine
> about the other card, namely it isn't a ten.

Usually doesn't matter, since only one bet is lost.  However, some
casinos have a "no peak under tens and player drawn 21 pushes BJ"
rules, and this calls for a slightly altered strategy (which I do
not have available, but plan to compute eventually).
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
 counter barred."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cheese@wam.umd.edu (Fletch F. Fletch)
Subject: Re: Surrender Indication?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:16:14 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.045350.772@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu writes:
>When sitting at a BJ table in say Las Vegas,
>what is the appropriate way to indicate a surrender.
>Also, what is the difference between "early surrender"
>and "surrender" I am a little unclear on this.

To indicate a surrender, you must simply say, "Surrender."  I would suggest 
doing this loudly and clearly, and don't make any motions with the cards, since 
this can easily result in the dealer hitting your hand.

Early surrender, which is not being offered any longer anywhere that I know of,
is the option to 'surrender' your hand, thereby receiving half of your original
bet back, unconditionally.  Late, or conventional, surrender is a derivative of
Early surrender, where the player will only receive half of his bet back should
the dealer *NOT* have a blackjack.  In the case the dealer has a blackjack, the
player loses his entire bet.

Jason
cheese@wam.umd.edu