From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: Islam: Difference b/w blasphemy and Criticizm
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:44:16 GMT

In article <la4rndINNiq8@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.005031.3295@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> >
> >example: Comparing Islamic system and US law Justice sytem.
> >
> > Islamic system is based is law on earth and law in hereafter.
> >Which makes sense to muslims ONLY. US law is made to make sense
> >to EVERYBODY, or as many people as possible.
> 
> Well, to us "secularism" like that in India (problems with
> Kashmiris and Sikhs), Turkey( with Kurds), Germany France and other
> European nations (problems with immigrants), makes no sense.
> 

Hyder Bhai:

Let me ask you one question.
Exactly when Islamic system has been in place
with not ethnic/regional problems ?

Is it a muslims ULTIMATE pipe dream that such a 
system exists ? or it has been proved to work ?

The discussion should be focused so I request the we
stay on the discussion of Blasphemy.

> >
> >When you need
> >ultimate justice, we are back to allah[swt], when comes to 
> >justifying muslim's death threats, you are out to settle the
> >issues on earth.
> 
> When USA needs Oil,  human rights-bla-bla-bla is used to
> settle the issues on earth, and when Somalia and Bosnia situation 
> arises they are back to the lame excuse of NOT enough security
> interests!
> 
So now we are comparing, USA with ISLAM!
what kind of comparision is that.

USA is a country, ISLAM is a religious system.

Again, let stay on blasphemy.

> >
> >You have vague concept of justice in hereafter,
> >which can be used to solve any problem whatsoever.
> >It is like having a non-deterministic turing machine.
> >Obviously if you have non-detrministic turing machines
> >you can solve a lot of problems, unfortunately, such machines
> >dont exist. 
> >
> 
> For you the concept of justice in the hereafter may be vague,
> but Islamic concept of justice in this world is "definitely"
> NOT vague and is very clear. And the concept of hereafter, 
> in the pure logical sense is NOT at all vague, but is rather
> too "rational", given the axiom that Allah exists!!!!!!
> 
The problem is that we cannot seem to find the line, when
Allah[swt], comes into force and when humans have to take
action.

This has been the dabate all along. We have to make up our
mind. What EXACTLY a person must do, and what EXACTLY are
Allah[swt] must do to deliver the ULTIMATE justice system.

Lets stay on blasphemy.

> >
> >But my claim is the very basic claim of
> >Islam is blasphemous to christians. It is nothing
> >to do with an individual would say or do.
> >
> 
> Please, define "blasphemous" and "libel". I guarantee that
> Islamic discussion of christianity in no way falls in
> either category!
> 

ISLAMIC CLIAM(S):

1.   Islam is true copy of the religion of Abraham, Jesus
2.   Followers of Christianity and Judaism have corrupted copies.
3.   Islam is JUST purer version of one religion.
4.   They are misguided people, who need to become muslims.
 

Definitions;

Blaspheme: (blas-fem) To speak of (God or something sacred) in an
          irreverent or impious manner.
irreverent: disrespectful
impious: lacking reverence, profane

Now given the definitions above:

I CLAIM:

 1. I have a new religion, with God named NAVEED.
 2. Muslims, Jews and Chirstians have been praying to NAVEED
    all their life.
 3. In particular, muslims are misguided and have mistaken 
    NAVEED's name to be ALLAH
 4. Muslims have corrupted copy of the religion, the only TRUE
    copy is the NAVEED's book.

Please tell me that above claims are not dis-respectful,  or they
do not lack reverence to Allah, or they do not talk of Allah in 
a disrecpectful manner.

The definitions above and the counter claim lead to believe that
that islamic claims are IRREVERENT to christianity
and Judaism and therefore constitute Blasphemy.


regards,

-Naveed

PS: I have no knowledge of God called NAVEED, people wishing to 
    pray to such a god should contact 1-800-I-AM-LOST. :-)

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