HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:39:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.163140.5192@ulrik.uio.no>, eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
> In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie
> I. Mourad) writes:
> 
>>>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.
>>
>>I am only curious why a nice and humanitarian person could not find better
>>running mates :-)
>>
>>>I. Ballouz
>>
>>Regards, Elie.
> 
> 
> very true (both elie and Ballouz)!
> 
> I see the point that a person who is interested in humanitarian help, and work
> social issues, is very welcome to the Lebanese parliament.
> 
> Yet now a days, we need to know what the elected parliamentarians stand for.

> 
> Does Mss/Mrs. Hariri agree with the policies of her Hizbollah running mates?
> 
> Does she share Mr. Berri's view of politics?

> 
> Yes I would have liked much better if she had run with Dr. Salim el-Hoss.
> 
> Yet what are her stands on the Israeli occupation? Syrian occupation? on the
> treaty of Brotherhood and Cooperation?
> 

I hope that she stands for what she really believes in not what I would like
or others (countries,individuals,interests) want her to be. 

If she believes in something that I or anybody else does not believe in this 
does not make her a bad person.

> How does she see that her running for elections under the rpesent situation
> helps Lebanon?
> 
> 
> This does not only apply to Mrs. Hariri. These questions apply as much to
> el-Hoss and any other running candidate.
> 
> 
> I am still disappointed that running lists are retricted to "areas of
> traditional influence".
> 
> Who does Hoss ally himself with otherwise in Politics?
He is a politician where do you want him to be!!!!
> 
> Does he support Berri's list? or Kamil el-Asaad's? Does He support HUsseini or
> Hizbollah?
> 
> 
> There are too many uunanswered questions by all who have run so that I trust
> any of them! (especially that I am against elections under the present
> circumstances!)
> 
> 
> Yes I know, we have always had this system in Lebanon!
> 
> When the system suits me I am happy, but when it doesn't suit me, it is bad?
> 
I do agree with the above statement 100%; I think we still need a lot 
to respect the results of the people whether it suits us or not.

> 
> NO, NO, NO! we need change, and will have to work for change!
> 
> No more should any politican be elected because of his richness (even if she
> kind as Mrs. Hariri obviously is, but she could concentrate on her welfare
> without being a politicain! so what is she going to do as a politican?) nor
> traditional support nor any feudal reason, or because he has enough guns or is
> promising us paradise!
I can not see what is wrong if somebody who helps others and believes in that 
work in politics. On the contrary he/she might be able to help others even 
more and more. 
> 
> 
> elie wardini
A. Fardoun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 12:52:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.053957.13634@colorado.edu> saouma@bechtel (SAOUMA VICTOR
E) writes:
>When a person like Khaled Sioufi finds himself defending Elie Hobeika, then
indeed everything is possible in Lebanon. All those ``unnatural'' alliances we
have had, are also beng done by some of us (who may have been most critical
about those done by others).
>
>How Sad it is!
>
>
>-- 
>
>
>Victor E. Saouma
>


hayde mniiHa!!!

heheheheheheheh, tragi-comic!  :(


elie wardini
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: New York Times article
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:35:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science/CWRU
NNTP-Posting-Host: syntest.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Sep4.140059.6510@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Would like to know what percentage of the population voted and what
>indications there were of it being a (somewhat) fair or unfair election. 

Voters percentage in Baalbeck if I remember correctly was above 55-60
% but lower than that in the North, in the 50's.  In Beirut and Mount
Lebanon, it was much lower.  The percenatges split among sects are: 30
% Shiites 18 % Sunnis 15 % Druz 2 % Christians.

The Baalbeck and North Percentages are based on memory while the for
Beirut and Monut Lebanon ones are from AL Diyar Newspaper, August 31,
1992.

Predictions estimate a pretty high percentage of voters in South
Lebanon in the third Phase.

>-Mary Howard


-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:23:10 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Sep11.110437.13857@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:

( a lot of stuff deleated )

>However in addition to be helpful and trustworthy, a member of parliament
>should have some essential political skills. Ms Hariri is best known for her
>humanitarian stands more than for her policies.
>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.
>             ^^^^^^^^^^


Damn! I meant to type politician, sorry everybody.

>I. Ballouz
>-- 


-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 00:09:51 GMT

9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil) writes:

>In article <1992Sep11.233319.31240@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes...

[...]

>>thing.  Listen, you can view his win not as much as a win for him but
>>really as a defeat to those he dissented with.  I bet you that was why
>>people voted him in.  Hobeika is an anti-Kuwwat symbol and people who
>>have voted for him probably cared more for that symbol and less for
>>his personage.  Sounds about right to me.

>wa dawini billati kannat hiya a-daa

>This is not even funny: rummaging in the trashcan to find a fruit a little
>less rotten than the others will hardly give you a healthy meal.

You are talking to me as if I have contributed to Hobeika's win!  Go
tell that to the people who voted for him.  I simply gave a scenario
which looks very sound to me.  If you have a better/different
explanation, then, by all means, let us know why you think Hobeika
won.  And by the way, I expect a more credible analysis than to say
the elections were rigged because they were not.

>And this voting against someone instead of for a program seem negative to me.

It is negative.

Let me also answer your other post briefly here.  The Hariris are not
a feudal political family as you were trying to hint there.  Mr. Rafik
Hariri came into the picture late in the Civil War and was never a
member of the Lebanese political apparatus (I presume you are aware of
that).  Now, If Mrs. Hariri's political life was triggered by the fine
reputation of her brother's foundation and her association with it,
then you should feel all the more confident in her and her emergence
as a young politician with honorable links to good deeds.  Besides,
since when did we have feudal political leaders who would allow their
women to share the glory in politics?

>alex

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:18:17 GMT


In article <1992Sep12.184758.4353@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>In article <BuFr3B.BwK@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:

  Stuff deleted

>>>
>>
>>
>>Now, That's what we call Politics....Elie!! :)....and this goes to fulfill
>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>mr Ballouz's wish of her being a good politician :).
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>
>I don't believe that her running mates are the worst in our political arena,
>athough I don't support them. Assuming, for argument's sake, they are not as 
>good as she is, I am hoping they will improve being in such a good company.
>
>>Regards,
>
>
>>
>>Samir.
>
>Ibrahim.
>-- 

I meant what I said about her making a good political judgement in running
on Berri's list. She knew and we know that Berri has a great support in the
south, and those who vote for him will most probably vote for those on his list.
And since the South and the Nabatiye provinces formed one electoral district,
it simply meant that Berri's supporters ( and they are the majority, by far, in
the south) are capable of tipping the balance in favor of whoever is on their
list in almost whichever area in the south he/she might be (as was proven in
the latest results). Knowing that, Ms. Hariri made a good political decision 
by joining Berri as a running mate. That made it especially vital for her when 
all other factions and old enemies joined that same list.  


Samir.  
-- 
==============================================================================



Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: What a pitty! (was:Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:07:34 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


(Elie Dib Wardini) questiones:

>    Why elections in Lebanon?

why not?

>    Why now?

why not?

>    Who wants them?

who does not?

>    What will they lead to?

Annihilation of feudalissm and Maronization of government offices.

>    Now that the turn-out was low what will happen?

Turn out was only low in Maronite dominated areas.i.e.Kesrwan.  However,
we are hearing that some Aoun candidates will join the convoy..

>    How long will Lebanon survive?

Lebanon will survive if it plays its natural role as part of the Arab world.

>   etc. etc.
> 
> 
> How interesting to read Hani Abi Nassif, as if he lives in another planet.
> 
Yeah...Earth!  Is it known to you?.

> I get depresed, when I see that no matter what poeple say, there is someone,
> who will still stick to age old arguments and rhetoric.

Well...better than being "OPPRESSED":-) although no guarantees you will not.!!!
> 
> 
Some of us can not take the idea of a changing Lebanon..I guess holding power
and the country's resources for half a decade makes it hard to let go.  

> elie wardini

No ELie.  You better come to terms with reality.
-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan            | Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
|__ | \/ |___| Computer Aided Engineering Network| hani@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:17:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.104137.12638@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>In article <BuHKMI.CrI@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:

>  Stuff deleted
>
>I am not an expert on our electoral system but what I know is that you need
>two Sunni moslems to be elected from the Saida area.
>Among the Sunni moslems who were contesting these two seats Ms. Hariri, by far,
>is preferred. The rest (whether Mr. Saad , the fundamentalists or others who
>belong to famous families) were not sure about the support they have since
>so many things had happened in the last twenty years(last time the election tookplace). Some were not sure about their traditional supporters. Others did gain
>some support because of their positions in the war but they have also managed to create many many ennemies.
>This did not apply to Ms Hariri.
>
>Here, the other members of her list were the real beneficials since they
>were not able to find a better candidate to run for the Sunnis.
>
>So I do not agree with your analysis. However, I am glad you had explained
>what you had meant in the first place.
>
>>Samir.  
>
>Ibrahim.
>-- 

A point should be added to my previous article.  Had Berri execluded Ms
Hariri from his list it would have offended the people of Saida ( the capital
of the south) and a good number of them elsewhere...would have been BAD
POLITICS on his part...just as he chose not to offend the people by choosing the
second seat holder for Saida ( since it was not just as clear)..and yes, it
would have been that decisive...especially when looking at the numbers after 
the elections.

With the sectarian system that we currently have in lebanon and the new
system of electoral districts, the minorities (be they political or 
religious minorities) would always have the majority in that region decide
who will represent them in the parliament....and you will see a lot more
of such coalitians...like the one Berri had.

Samir 

-- 
==============================================================================



Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Elections
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:07:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.062009.12005@csi.uottawa.ca> wsaba@csi.UOttawa.CA (Walid
Saba) writes:
>
>
>But its is funny to here that there are actually elections....

it is funny to read you again! belive me, you missed us!

ahlan ya zalmey!

>Walid
>


elie wardini
From: hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:42:46 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.110437.13857@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>
>>I think Ayman meant that the people can trust Ms Hariri ( not trying to repay
>>her by electing her ) since herself and her brother have done very much for
>>the country out of good intention ( a character a bit rare in some of our
>>politicians ).
>>However in addition to be helpful and trustworthy, a member of parliament
>>should have some essential political skills. Ms Hariri is best known for her
B
>>humanitarian stands more than for her policies.
>>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.
>
>I am only curious why a nice and humanitarian person could not find better
>running mates :-)
>
>>I. Ballouz
>
>Regards, Elie.
>


Now, That's what we call Politics....Elie!! :)....and this goes to fulfill
mr Ballouz's wish of her being a good politician :).


Regards,

Samir.
-- 
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.mexican,soc.culture.mexico,soc.culture.misc
From: tonebone@athena.mit.edu (Tony F Ezzat)
Subject: Lebanon-net
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:15:51 GMT

 Does a lebanon-net mailing list exist, and, if so, how does one become a member?

                                                     Tony Ezzat
From: ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Two laws...One state? (Was: Dracula)
Date: 16 Sep 92 04:05:51 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Electronic Eng., The University of Adelaide

In article <1992Aug25.235355.18151@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes:

[...]

>Now about the application of Islamic Law in the deen and dunia (religion and
>worldly affairs), it is very clear in Islam especially from the traditions of the
>prophet (peace be upon him) and the Khalifs after him that in both worldly and
>religious affairs the religion of the person is applied.
>For example at the time of the prophet (PBUH), two jews that had committed
>adultery wanted to escape their punishment according to jewish law. So they
>went to prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and asked that the Islamic punishment be applied
>to them. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) refused that and told them that they will be
>punished according to their own religion.

Fair enough, Rached. One point to mention, however, is that Judaism is
another religion that apparently associates between its (religious)
principles and the laws of the state (Israel). In contemporary
Christianity, there is no such thing as "Christian Law" controlling
the civilian part of humans lives. And even assuming that the Lebanese
Christians adopt a certain (non-Islamic) law, it would be interesting
to know how viable is the existence of 2 laws in 1 state!

>In fact Islam and seperation of Church and State are contradictory. Islam is not
>only a religion (in western terms) it is rather a way of life. Thus a Muslim
>finds rules that regulate his dealings with his God as well as with other human
>beings. There are Halal and Haram in every aspect of life. Thus Islam is not
>confined to the Mosque, it rather establishes a whole system of life that
>encompasses the mosque, the marketplace, the ruling place, the home, the family
>and one's self.

True Christianity is also a way of life, however instead of providing
detailed rules and regulations, it provides guidelines and attitudes.
This creates the possibility to change the civil rules and regulations as
life progresses, while keeping the guidelines in perspective. This
also allows for a (formal) separation between state and religion,
making possible the participation of a wider spectrum of populace
into the development of civil life e.g. it promotes non-discrimination.

Talking about contradiction between Islam and state-religion
separation, i am somewhat concerned that this contradiction might lead
to another contradiction between Islam and democracy, unless the
Middle Eastern democracy is different from that known in the Western
world! (please see my next posting).

>rached
George
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:59:44 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde


In article <BuJA8x.Co5@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep13.181255.18192@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>In article <BuIto7.L0u@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep13.104137.12638@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>>>In article <BuHKMI.CrI@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>>>>>
>Much deleted
>>
>
>And Ibrahim, I was merely analyzing how she made a good political decision
>and it was your wish that she makes as good a politician as she is an
>active person in the community...No favors by anybody were implied.  In
>politics there is no such things as favors....sometimes you drop old
>allies and make new ones with old enemies because times do change...
>Up there ("down there" could fit just as well) no body does anybody any favors,
> they all do what's in their best interest.
>
From this discussion, what it seems certain is that Ms Hariri could have won
whether she was on Mr Berri or not (or at least she had a big chance in winning)Now, the reason for joinning his list , I think, is to avoide implying to the
electors that they oppose each other. It would have created an ill feeling.
Suppose she did not join his list and lost, any talk about vote rigging would
have been taken seriously indeed and would have left a big question mark on the
voting process.

So she had made a good judgment to join his list.

But again Hizbollah and Amal candidates (once bitter rivals) joined the same
list for the same reasons, chosing not to confront each other.
Here it seems it was a kind of collective agreement among all the candidates
including Ms Hariri to create a unified list.

The one who had arranged all that is a good politician!
Who is he /she? I don't know.  But still it does not tell me about Ms Hariri
own political skills because she might not have been the one who called for that
coalition since this common list seems to serve the rest more than Ms Hariri.

You see where we differ a little bit.   

>Samir.

Ibrahim.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: abbasa@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: A Rousing Wellcome
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:34:02 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

  
Thousands of people turned out to greet President Rafsanjani of
Islamic Republic of Iran as he arrived in the Pakistani capital
Islamabad.  This historic wellcome has refreshened the memories of
the similar reception given to Ayatullah Ali Khamanai, then president
of Iran, when he had visited Pakistan.  Pakistani government had to 
take strict security measures at this occasion.

This great and historic reception is evidence of growing influence of 
Islamic Revolution in abroad.  It clearly shows that Islamic revolution
still rules the hearts of not only the Muslim people of Iran but of the whole
Islamic World also.  This rousing wellcome dashes the hopes of open
and hidden enemies (MUNAFIQIN) of Islamic revolution and warms the blood
of MOMINEEN ( believers).

regards,

Asad.   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@bechtel (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:39:57 GMT

When a person like Khaled Sioufi finds himself defending Elie Hobeika,
then indeed everything is possible in Lebanon. All those ``unnatural''
alliances we have had, are also beng done by some of us (who may
have been most critical about those done by others).

How Sad it is!


-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: sion@apache.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun)
Subject: Re: Re Lebanon net (errata)
Organization: Free Lebanon
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:30:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: apache.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Sep8.172922.9453@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi) writes:


[lots of good stuff deleted]

>But anyway, I think the original poster wanted to know about Lebnet, which is
>a mailing list. Join by sending email to lebnet@ctr.columbia.edu
>

it's leb-net@ctr.columbia.edu or digest@sensors.njit.edu

but thanks anyway Ayman for the free publicity :-)


Boudi