HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rking@acorn.co.uk (Richard King)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Help please (info on reflectors)
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:49:39 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England


I am a newcomer to astronomy and would be grateful for some
guidance on a couple of points.

Firstly I am using a secondhand home built 6" Newtonian telescope
but have little understanding of how to set up and maintain the 
instrument.

Are there any recommended books on this subject ?
What power eyepiece lenses should I be able to use ? (and where in 
the UK can I buy them from ?)


Also, as a beginner I would appreciate some recommendations for 
introductory books on astronomy in general. 

Thanks in advance,
Richard King
From: ALPAR@TRMETU.BITNET
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Has anybody seen ....
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:48:19 GMT
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center


     Hi friends
 In last total lunar eclipse on 12/09/1992 I saw a star very close to moon .
The star was approximately 50 arcseconds  away from the moon . It was throug  w
estward and the magnitude was about 7 . I'm not sure about these data
      because the temperature was about -15 degrees centigrades and on my objec
tive there was a thin ice layer . So I couldn't understand if it was a real sta
r or an optical error .Neither on my photos nor in zoomed video images it was
not visible . Also in computer simulations of eclipse I couldn't see any star .
 Has anybody seen that star ? If it was a star can anybody tell its HD number o
r info about it ?
                                        Alper Ates
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: budd@ccrs.emr.ca (Mark Budd)
Subject: Re: Solstice Question (simple)
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:44:41 GMT

In article <7460063@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> goris@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Goris) writes:
>
>I have a simple question for some astronomy guru out there:
>
>   As everyone knows, winter solstice is the day with the shortest time 
>   between sun-rise and sun-set.  However, it is neither the day
>   of latest sun-rise nor earlist sun-set.  Why is this?  I'm having
>   trouble picturing in my mind what happens  as the earth rotates
>   around the sun, and how the tilt of the earth could cause this.
>   One of my coworkers believes the shift is caused by the fact the
>   earth is not in perfectly circular orbit around the sun.  I can't
>   see how our elliptical orbit could cause this effect.
>
>   I believe the answer to this question would also explain that 
>   photograph of the sun moving in a figure-8 pattern you see in S&T every 
>   so often.  It's a time exposure where, for one year, the shutter is 
>   openened at the same time every day. I understand how the earths tilt 
>   causes the up-down movement in the figure-8, but what causes the 
>   left-right movement, and why does it have a period of twice/year?
>
>   Thanks,
>
>   Andy Goris                goris@fc.hp.com
>
I've always thought it had to do with the fact that the Earth's orbital
velocity is not constant as it goes around the Sun.  Even at winter solstice
the velocity is increasing since perihelion is in January sometime.  Without
this, the Earth's rotational period would have the Sun overhead at the same
local time every day.  But as the earth approaches perihelion and it's orbital
velocity increases, the sun seems to "lag" behind it's expected position in
the sky.

I won't even try to draw an ascii diagram.

Mark

Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: ATM Materials
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:34:19 GMT

rbunge@access.digex.com (Robert Bunge) writes:
: >
: >Glass is a lot cheaper than pyrex - but you want to use plate glass. It is
: >not better, except in regards to cost.  Pyrex is better as far as expansion
: >characteristics go.  However, by the time it would matter much, you are to
: >the stage where the tool is covered with a pitch lap. 
: >
: I've noticed also that the mirror "hoggs" out faster if the tool is a
: different material than the mirror.  "hoggs" out means that the rough
: grinding goes faster and the mirror reaches the desired curve faster.
: I remember some machinist telling me years ago that you always want
: to grind hard against soft, never hard against hard, soft on soft 
: (call Pyrex hard, glass soft).  Nonetheless, I've used the W-B kits
: a good bit and the pyrex on pryex works fine.

I have used Pyrex on Pyrex - and Pyrex on glass. Except in the early
stage of grinding, where the curve is first starting to be developed, 
I did not notice any real difference.

If the tool is too soft, then you get much more wear on it, so need
a thicker blank to start.

Bill
From: sharon@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Sharon Curtis)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Any Ursid meteors seen ?
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:05:53 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
Originator: sharon@flint.comlab

In article whatever, Mike Boschat writes:
> Did anyone see any Ursid meteors on Dec.21-23 ?  I observed
>on the 22/23 from 0100-0300 UT but saw 8 meteors, 5 were Ursids
>the rest sporadic. The brightest Ursid was of mag. -0, blue,
>with a length of 8 degrees. The rest were +1 and +2 Mv.

and...

In another article, Peter Wardenier writes:
> I'm looking for information on the expected "peak" of the Bootide- 
> (Quadrantide) meteors for next year. (Coming up soon, now!)
> To my knowledge, the peak should be close to 11UT, January 3, 1993.
> Anyone knows if this is correct?


Ah yes, meteors. Does anyone pleeeeease have any information on
how I can find out where radiants are of showers, and predicted
maximums (especially important in the case of the Quadrantids!)

In particular, I'm trying to "collect" meteor showers from which
I have seen meteors, and so in anticipation of some Ursids I went
and stood on a very creepy meadow (Port Meadow, Oxford, England)
on the night of 22nd Dec (well, 23/12/92 12.10 - 12.50 UT)
and admired all the bright pretty
winter stars, and Mars, and in that time I saw two meteors,
either of which (but not both) could have been an Ursid. 
"Back-tracking" both meteors led back to Ursa Major, but to
opposite ends of the constellation. As I am sure you know, Ursa
Major is *not* a small constellation - so I'd love to know whether
I really did spot an Ursid, and if so, which one was it?

Many thanks for any radiants you may be able to help me with -
I've checked through all my astronomy books and some of them
don't even mention the Ursids, let alone tell me where the
radiant is!

Sharon Curtis
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: terryr@due.vis.citri.EDU.AU (Terry Robison)
Subject: Looking for low cost CCD
Summary: Looking for low cost CCD
Keywords: CCD, Low cost
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:08:28 GMT

Hi,
	I'm looking for information on low cost CCD camera's and related
stuff.  I would like to use it with my 8 inch newtonian, and my home
PC running OS/2 (486 33 Mhz, 8 meg memory).  Any info on prices and
suppliers would be great.

		Thanks in advance

				Terry
				terryr@krang.vis.citri.edu.au
 
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: acgoldis@athena.mit.edu (Andrew C Goldish)
Subject: Future life on Mars?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:30:41 GMT

  Since everyone has been discussing the end of life on Earth over the past
few days, I was wondering whether or not life will be able to arise on Mars,
at least for a short period of time, during the last one or two billion years
of the solar system (that is, assuming there is no life there already).  Since
the sun is going to keep on getting more and more luminous, enough to turn the
Earth into another Venus, it seems possible that Mars will be able to get
warm enough for something interesting to happen.  Can the increased heat
from the sun melt enough ice cap and permafrost water and kick enough CO2
into the atmosphere to make oceans and turn Mars into a habitable planet
(at least in the oceans)?
						A. Goldish
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Help please (info on reflectors)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 10:23:12 GMT

I wrote:

: : Firstly I am using a secondhand home built 6" Newtonian telescope
: : but have little understanding of how to set up and maintain the 
: : instrument.
: 
: : Are there any recommended books on this subject ?
: 
: A pretty good all around book is the book by Sam Brown - available
: from Edmund Scientific. I seem recall that the title is "Building
: Your Own Telescope". I can look it up - if you need the exact title.

The title is "All About Telescopes". Library of Congress Number is
67-31540 for the 1967 edition.

Bill
From: jamey@moo.uoregon.edu (Prep Room Star)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: CCD's
Date: 29 Dec 1992 22:10:06 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Physics Dept
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: moo.uoregon.edu
Keywords: ccd's

I am wondering if anyone has come up with a way to make the CCD-computer-
telescope setup more portable then it is.  Currently I use a Lynx ccd, hyundai
computer and an 8" celestron telescope.  Specifically, I was wondering if anyone
had hooked the ccd card up to a lap-top computer? And if so how did it work??
Any info anyone has would be appreciated.
you can e-mail responses to jamey@moo.uoregon.edu
thanks 
jamey
From: bscott@lyman.pppl.gov (Bruce Scott)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Detecting Second-Order GR Effects in Binary Pulsars
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:36:15 GMT
Reply-To: bscott@lyman.UUCP (Bruce Scott)
Organization: Princeton University, Plasma Physics Laboratory

Leigh,

Your defense of Tom has the right sentiment: listen to what he says and
then deal with the statements as they stand.

Good, I try to do that at all times. My concern would be that several
times in the recent past he had made statements about "What are the
actual predictions of standard, Einsteinian general relativity?" On
points such as these, experimental information is irrelevant. It
recovers its rightful place of primacy--the test of theories and
models---only when there is clear understanding of what the theories
and models actually say. I believe the response to Tom has been mostly,
not what do the binary pulsar results say about the existence of
gravitational waves at all, but *in the case* that one takes Einsteinian
GR as a working model, can it be fit to the data, and if so, what does
it say about the phenomena. Remember that, unlike the "standard model",
either in particle physics or in cosmology, GR is a rigorous theory,
and very precise statements can be made on what it says about the
nature of space-time, given the appropriate boundary conditions, e.g.,
presence or absence of incoming or outgoing waves. Much of the criticism
that has hit home against Tom's modelling has been in this direction:
attempts to claim that this or that model (usually cosmology, where
things are more debatable, but now this time in Einsteinian GR, where
they are really not) is false, based on incorrect statements on what this
or that model actually predicts. Forget about the track record, the
statement that there are no gravity waves in Einsteinian GR is simply not
true.
-- 
Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: sjf@progress.COM (Steven Feinstein)
Subject: WANTED: GIF of Earth and Moon from Galileo
Summary: I would like to obtain a GIF of a picture taken by Galileo
Keywords: GIF Galileo Moon Earth
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:57:42 GMT

Hi, 

I saw a picture in today's newspaper (Boston Globe 12/23/92 page 3)
showing the Earth and Moon from the Galileo.

Does anyone know where I can obtain a GIF of the same picture
through an anonymous FTP site?


Thanks for your insight...


-Steven 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    _/_/_/_/       _/  _/_/_/_/ | Steven J. Feinstein <sjf@progress.com>
   _/             _/  _/        | - May the skies be dark and clear -
  _/_/_/_/       _/  _/_/_/     | Progress Software Corporation      
       _/ _/    _/  _/          | 14 Oak Park
_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/  _/           | Bedford, MA  01730
--
      _/_/_/     _/  _/_/_/ | Steven J. Feinstein <sjf@progress.com>
    _/          _/  _/      | - May the skies be dark and clear -
    _/_/       _/  _/_/     | Progress Software Corporation      
_/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/        | Bedford, MA  01730
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: mrtim@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (t.ihde)
Subject: Re: averting doom
Organization: UNIX System Labs
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:30:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.194139.27331@cs.ucf.edu> clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke) writes:

>It was Sky and Telescope Feb '93 ppp 13-14.
>I remembered wrong.  A one millimeter perturbation of Mars' orbit
>eventually caused a 500,000 kilometer difference in the position of
>Pluto after 100 million years.

>Gerald Sussman and Jack Wisdom used the Supercomputer Toolkit at MIT
>to simulate the solar system.

Did this simulation consider the positions of nearby stars?  Eventually
these would have an effect also.  I'm wondering how this effect compares
with this change in position of Mars.

	tim
-- 
Tim J. Ihde                                  | UNIX(R) System Laboratories
tim@usl.com                   (908) 522-5571 | Distributed Computing Department
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: andromed@cs.dal.ca (Mike Boschat)
Subject: Re: Cheap or Expensive Binoculars?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 16:46:10 GMT

In article <mc0ZVB1w165w@bluemoon.use.com>, gerry@bluemoon.use.com (Gerard M. Foley) writes:
|>     In 1986, in preparation for a cruise off the Brazilian coast, 
|> nominally to see comet Halley, I bought 7 X 50 K-Mart Focal brand 
|> binoculars for about $50.  These rubber encased binoculars gave very 
|> satisfactory performance until recently.  Now they are decollimated, so 
|> that star images are double.  My visual accomodation can fuse bright 
|> images, in the daytime.
|> 
|>     I don't know what the cost is in eyestrain of the decollimated state 
|> of the glasses, but I want to replace them with a properly collimated 
|> pair.  The question is will a more expensive set be less prone to 
|> accidental decollimation than a cheap set?  The old ones have cost me 
|> about $8 a year!
|> 
|>     Incidentally, the views of the comet were not especially better than I 
|> had in Ohio, but oh, that Southern Hemisphere sky and the Magellanic 
|> Clouds!!
|> 
|> gerry@bluemoon.rn  My amateur radio callsign is K8EF, and my
|> packet radio address is K8EF@W8CQK.OH.USA.NA


Hello;

 I bought a pair of 7x50 Bauch&Lomb for $80 from Canadian Tire store
and I had no problem with the views till I looked at the stars 
then they too were double and after moving my eyes straining 
they were finally one star this also happened with any binocular
I got and it could be the human eye.
Check out ASTRONOMY magazine Nov issue (or Oct) they have 
a special section on buying binoculars and tips..its informative..

SEASONS GREETINGS !!!  CLEAR SKIES FOR 1993..
   						Clear skies

						  Mike

JOHN F. KENNEDY ASTRONOMICAL OBSERVATORY

PS;

 Tried to send email to gerry@bluemoon.use.com
but it came back unknown host..
Newsgroups: sci.astro,rec.radio.shortwave
From: oler@rho.uleth.ca (Cary Oler)
Subject: Daily Solar Geophysical Data Broadcast for 25 December
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: 27 Dec 92 00:30:58 GMT

!!BEGIN!! (1.0) S.T.D. Solar Geophysical Data Broadcast for DAY 360, 12/25/92
10.7 FLUX=136.2  90-AVG=139        SSN=120      BKI=0011 1211  BAI=002
BGND-XRAY=B3.0     FLU1=*.*E+**  FLU10=*.*E+**  PKI=0011 1210  PAI=004
  BOU-DEV=000,004,005,008,008,013,009,005   DEV-AVG=006 NT     SWF=00:000
 XRAY-MAX= C2.5   @ 0147UT    XRAY-MIN= B2.6   @ 2056UT   XRAY-AVG= B3.8
NEUTN-MAX= +003%  @ 2355UT   NEUTN-MIN= -002%  @ 1850UT  NEUTN-AVG= +0.8%
  PCA-MAX= +0.1DB @ 2315UT     PCA-MIN= -0.2DB @ 1120UT    PCA-AVG= +0.0DB
BOUTF-MAX=55424NT @ 1432UT   BOUTF-MIN=55393NT @ 1900UT  BOUTF-AVG=55414NT
GOES7-MAX=P:+105NT@ 1832UT   GOES7-MIN=N:+004NT@ 0815UT  G7-AVG=+082,+029,+010
GOES6-MAX=P:+125NT@ 1833UT   GOES6-MIN=E:-013NT@ 2312UT  G6-AVG=+101,-003,+035
 FLUXFCST=STD:130,125,125;SESC:130,125,125 BAI/PAI-FCST=025,025,015/030,030,020
    KFCST=4455 6443 4455 6443  27DAY-AP=005,004   27DAY-KP=1122 1122 1112 2110
 WARNINGS=
   ALERTS=
!!END-DATA!!
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Anyone for squash at AAS meeting next month?
From: rlm@sunlight.Physics.UIowa.Edu (Robert Mutel)
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:05:42 +1700

Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:36:36 GMT

Is anyone interested in playing squash at the AAS meeting in Phoenix between
2 and 6 January? (The Hilton hotel has squash courts). 

-- 
Robert Mutel
Department of Physics and Astronomy
University of Iowa
Iowa City IA 52242

Telephone: 319-335-1950      FAX: 319-335-1753
Email: rlm@sunlight.physics.uiowa.edu  (internet) 
       iowa::rlm (span)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.hubble
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Re: Galileo coverup
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:55:00 GMT

In article <105898@bu.edu>, steelie@csa.bu.edu (James Howard) writes...
> 
> Ok, so the title is a bit misleading.  But it doesnt seem far from
>the truth, according to what you read in the press.   To my eyes,
>there is absolutely NO WAY to get 70% of the original mission data
>through the backup antenna.    What was the data rate 4 or 5 months
>ago.. 40bps?    
> 
>I dont care how much they throw around terms like "compression" , it
>doesnt fool me.   Anyone who has ever used a computer knows that 
>a 300bps modem is barely in the same species as a 19.2k.  (for analogy's sake)

Seventy percent of the science objectives can be obtained using the Low Gain
Antenna.  Compressions techniques (10x improvment) with upgrades to the 
Deep Space Network (another 10x improvement) will give an effective 100x
improvement of the LGA's 10 bps transmission rate that it will be using
at Jupiter.  If you want more details, refer to the June 1992 press conference.
Jon Leech transcribed this and it is available as galileo.gaspra.briefing1
in the pub/SPACE/GALILEO directory at ames.arc.nasa.gov. This was posted to
sci.space.  Another file to check is the galileo.antenna.update1 file describing
the hammering techniques which are currently in progress to opem the antenna.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Choose a job you love, and
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you'll never have to work
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | a day in your life. 

Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: pg@sanitas.stortek.com (Paul Gilmartin)
Subject: Re: Averting doom
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 15:33:04 GMT

John McCarthy (jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: 	     But they say mirrors on Earth or shades in space
:      potentially could shield our planet from increasing heat
:      from the sun and delay the catastrophic consequences. Other
:      possible solutions- building closed environments like the
:      Biosphere Two project in Arizona... or setting up controlled
:      Earth-like environments in space.
: 
: A more straightforward solution is to move the earth further from
: the sun as the sun warms up.  What are the easiest ways of doing
: this?

Larry Niven, in "A World out of Time", suggested moving a gas giant
planet into Earth's orbit a few degrees ahead of the Earth.  The
resulting gravitational perturbation would gently accelerate the
Earth into a higher orbit.  The gas giant is expendable: its
substance becomes thermonuclear fuel and reaction mass.
: --
: John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
: *
: He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
: 
I believe arithmetic argues that shields or domes are feasible with
forseeable technology; moving the Earth is not.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: acgoldis@athena.mit.edu (Andrew C Goldish)
Subject: Cosmology graduate schools
Keywords: cosmology, graduate schools
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:21:54 GMT

  I caught the tail end of a discussion on cosmology/astrophysics graduate
schools.  Would it be possible for someone to email me a listing of recommended
cosmology/astrophysics graduate schools?  Thanks.

						A. Goldish
						acgoldis@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: terryr@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (Terry Robison)
Subject: Where can I find FITS images
Summary: Where can I find FITS images
Keywords: FITS
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:01:10 GMT

Hello,
	Where can I find FITS images.  I have IMDISP - and would like
some more FITS images to experiment with.  Thanks in advance.

		Terry
			terryr@kran.vis.citri.edu.au
.
From: awesley@neumann.une.edu.au (Anthony Wesley)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: STS-1 DISASTER/COVERUP
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:13:59 GMT

This posting provided the best laugh I've had for a while. I can't decide
whether this guy is serious or just baiting us. If he really believes this
garbage, can someone please switch him off??

regards, anthony
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Size of Second-Order GR Effects in Binary Pulsars
Organization: LLNL
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:37:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.084336.17363@nuscc.nus.sg> scip1061@nuscc.nus.sg (Marc Paul Jozef) writes:
>lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
$ Tom van Flandern writes:
$ >     There is apparently some argument about the system of equations being
$ >over-determined because of an extra identity that has been found.  I can't
$ >say for certain that Yu's paper is correct, but the matter isn't trivial
$ >either.

$ 	What extra identity???

	I've NEVER seen it in any of the GR literature I've ever read.

$ >     It would help if you read Yu and gave us an informed opinion about the
$ >actual line of reasoning.  Blind shots are not helpful.

$ 	Maybe I'll find it sometime and check it over. But if it is in
$ some obscure, out-of-the-way journal, you ought to indicate whether or
$ not it is worth the trouble. In the meantime, you can be reading some
$ mainstream GR text like Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler's.

	Well, I did try to guess at what Damour was getting at, and I
think I have a pretty good idea now. The most general scalar-tensor
theory (like Brans-Dicke) with quadratic kinetic (field-gradient)
terms has the Lagrangian:

	L = L[matter] + L[kinetic] + L[potential]

	where

	L[kinetic] = (1/2)*M[i,j]*F[i]_,a*F[j]_,b*g^ab

	L[potential] = U + V*R

	and

	L[matter] is for everything else.

	Here, the F[i] are the scalar fields and M[i,j], U, and V are
all functions of the F[i]'s. R is the Ricci scalar. U has the
interpretation of the cosmological constant and V has the
interpretation of the reciprocal of the gravitational constant.

	I'm currently in an effort to find the post-Newtonian
parameter values and the G-wave radiation rate. I'll report on what I
can find.

>       So this is the way real scientists reason.
>       Most impressive.   

	Tsk, tsk, tsk. Sarcasm ain't very nice.

	BTW, after today, I'll probably be off the net until Jan. 4 or so.
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov