HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scsd1055@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: wearing two hats
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:55:49 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Billy C. writes :-)

 > We have Christians who will put on their scientist hats when they
 > study science, and accept all the claims of evolutionism. Then
 > with no qualms, on Sunday, they put on their Christian hats, and
 > study the claims of a Creator, and fail to see the dichotomy....

                                                            
	And?  What dichotomy?  Isn't evolution part of christianity?
Won't we all evolve into something spiritual upon death?
	What happens, or has happened to planet Earth in the past 5 billion
years, should be of little concern for the spiritually minded, for their 
concerns are not of this Earth.  But for those that are a little confused 
by the vagueness of man's origins (especially the biblical rendition) and 
those pesky little bones that keep turning up buried under years of earth, 
this "dichotomy" spurns them on to find the truth.  I do not believe that
God would punish those that investigate this "dichotomy".
	I hope we're not going to see a debate on evolution!  8-] 

Evolutionarily yours,  
Bill Plunkett
SCSD1055@ALTAIR.SELU.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:23:45 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: From the listowners (please read)
              30 Jul 1992 15:58:23 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

On Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:58:23 GMT Darren said:

>[ I'm posting this to the list because e-mail indicates that several people
>  have similar comments.  If you see here what you were going to e-mail, you
>  don't have to mail it now.  Ms McBurney and Mr Klepzig will get enough mail
>  this week.  8-) ]
>
>Since I have access to other lists and discussion groups, I will refrain from
>voting.  Those who have access only to Christia get first pick, I think.

Darren, and anyone else who hasn't voted yet.

Steven and I have requested the vote be limited to the three categories
listed in my previous note.  Steven will post results after the voting
is completed.  We want to extend this invitation to anyone who wishes
to participate.  The vote is coming in at a steady pace, but we're not
overburdened by the load.  We appreciate hearing from everyone.

Christia list owners,
Madge McBurney    Bitnet:   ispmom@asuacad
                  Internet: ispmom@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
Steven Klepzig    Internet: sklepzi@ssb1.saff.utah.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  JNET%"Christia@asuacad"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:06:00 CST
From:         JULIA 204 <JRS1488@TAMVENUS.BITNET>
Subject:      THE ROMANCE THING

Fellow CHRISTIAns:
        I read Kerry's post yesterday and I can really understand what
she's going through.  Last March I met the most wonderful guy in the
whole world...Just at a time when I felt that I did not need to be in a
dating relationship.  Chad and I attended two of my sorority functions, talked
on the phone ALOT, and were basically together any time that we were not
studying or in class.  I really felt that he was 'the one' (naive as that may
seem to be??!!)  He has so many of the traits that I'm looking for in a
husband.
        Well, I read a book (Chad read it, and suggested I read it although
I doubt he did so because of our relationship) called PASSION AND PURITY
by Elizabeth ---- (oh no, I forgot her last name!!)  Anyway, it's an awesome
book and it really got me thinking about our relationship.  I prayed and told
God that I fully trusted Him to deal with this relationship.  I told God that,
though I had (and still have) very strong feelings for Chad, I knew that
His will is best and, if that means taking this relationship from me, that
was fine with me.  I did not want to be in a relationship with someone
that was taking away from my walk with Jesus.  (because of the large
amounts of time we spent together, although we ALWAYS discussed our walk,
and God, I did not always find time to be alone with Jesus).
        Anyway, guess what happened????  He and I slowly drifted apart.  We
only speak on Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights--we still have wonderful
conversations, but it's not the same.  I have started feeling hurt, betrayed,l
and confused.  I wanted so badly to say to Chad,"WHY DON'T YOU CALL ME ANY-
MORE????"  It was like I forgot what I said to God!!!!!
        I'm still having trouble dealing with the loss of a relationship that
I felt was going to be a lasting one.  I still have hopes, but, I'm REALLY
trying to put this in God's hands.
        Could ya'll please pray for me, and send me any scripture that may
relate.  I'm having so much trouble accepting this from God.
        Oh, one other thing...Chad doesn't exactly know that I have these
strong feelings for him.  I don't feel that I should tell him, does anyone
feel differently???  I'm open to ANY advice ya'll may have!!!!!!!!!!
:-)                          IN HIS LOVE,
                                                                  Julia <><Z
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:01:31 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Psycho Witch Doctors.
              31 Jul 1992 08:31:00 EST from
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan Graham:

Another surprise.  I agree completely with what you said about psychology.
I was in psychology before I was saved, and I gave it up because I
thought (as a non-Christian) it was, as you say, bull.  Also, I have
since discovered Jay Adams.  What a breath of fresh air!

I may have discussed this with you before, but could you privately
give me your opinion of Martin and Diedre Bobgan's work, and of
the Christian Recovery industry?  Thanks.

                                         Love INC,
                                                  --Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Family Values and Arbitration
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:30:44 GMT


[ US politics, but generalisable ]

I do not think much of "The American Spectator", and this excerpt merely
serves to reinforce that opinion.

First, we read that Hillary Clinton "believes that children from the age of
12 on up should, when the interests of the parents and the child diverge, be
able to take their parents to court and testify against them."

Then the author of the article produces this summary: "In other words: 'Don't
worry, we'll still leave mundane decisions to the discretion of parents, it's
just the important ones they can't be trusted with.'"

Ms Clinton did not say that the child's decision should automatically be made
binding, only that the child should have the right to present his/her case
before a judge and have that judge make a decision.

For an extreme example, suppose a 14-year-old girl is pregnant, and her
parents want her to have an abortion.  Would you say that the girl has no
right to keep the baby?  That she has no right to even ask for an impartial
decision from a third party?


In my experience, parents are sometimes muddleheaded when it comes to their
children; most parents want what's best, but few of them are willing to
believe that they might be wrong about what that is.  Everybody makes mistakes
and lets their biases interfere with good judgement, especially when the
situation is emotionally important.  Nobody is infallible, and becoming a
parent doesn't confer some magic power on people.  Impartial third-party
decisions are helpful in many situations, and I see no reason to assume that
they are unacceptable for parent-child disputes.

I would prefer it if the family could go to the deacons or elders who run
their church, but for people outside the church that's not an option.  Also,
many churches see "honor thy father and mother" as "obey everything they say",
without first asking if the parents might ever be wrong.  In my opinion, a kid
who refuses to have an abortion does more to honor her parents than one who
just does what they say.  The assumption that one side is always right renders
the third party useless.


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
"Justice, n.  A commodity which in a more or less adulterated condition the
 State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes, and
 personal service." -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:08:07 EDT
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Louisiana Christians

Just out of curiosity...Are there any list subscribers out there from
Louisiana.  Sometimes you can't tell from the list review where people
are from.

Julie Nott
New Trying-to-get-involved Subscriber
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:13:50 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: From the listowners (please read)

As is right now, the list is great! But that might indicate that I might be
one of the violators.
My vote would be a 2.5; that is, somewhere between 2 and 3.

I certainly don't advocate anarchy, but I likewise don't advocate a strictly
moderated list that will involve legalism and subjective judgments based on
someone's conscience.
I think we sometimes forget that debate can be very practical. As for the
so-called "flames", I really haven't seen anything that bad. There could
even be a case made from Scripture for the virtue of name calling. I try
to avoid name calling (I don't think I've done it on the list).

I definitely don't support witchcraft in any way; however, I by no means
am for removing Dan Holzman from the list. I would rather pray for him
and attempt dialogue with him when opportunity arises.

Oh well, the list is better shape from my perception than I think you might
view it. I know you see it from a different vantage point, but again, I say
it's great as it is.

My vote = 2.5

Tom Brewer NOTTMB@LSUVM
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:33:00 EDT
From:         Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      Re: Amy Grant & Gospel
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

   Someone (Kerry?) mentioned Amy's music is contemporary Christian, not
Gospel, as Gospel refers usually to black gospel music.  Isn't it true, Europe
list-members, that in the UK Christian rock is often called "Gospel Rock"???
     BTW, how popular has "Heart in Motion" been outside the U.S.?  Any top 10
tunes?????????
              Just curious,        Rich C.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:13:03 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Master "bait" or Mass Debate?

Dear Jeffrey et al. ;

A short post here.

The Scriptures do NOT catagorically condemn the practice, itself.
However, we are told to avoid the following :

Lust       Evil thoughts      Adultry         Homosexuality etc. ... etc.
Idolatry   Fornication        Lewdness        Lack of self-control

A person cannot commit any of the above things ... amen!
Nevertheless, in areas of grey genre, we must keep a clear conscience, first,
and second, we must not let it master us (no pun intended!)
Self control and a clear conscience are the two criteria for grey areas.
The only other criterion is that of expediency.  Is something timely, or is
one's time best used in other pursuits?


Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:47:05 CDT
From:         JRALLS@TRINITY.EDU
Subject:      trying to read Prophet

Dear Listfolk,

Just wondering if anyone else is having trouble getting ahold of
Frank Peretti's book Prophet? I used inter-library loan to get
Piercing the Darkness within the last year and had no trouble.
(Of course that book had been out for quite awhile)
I requested Prophet over a month ago and the ILL person here at
Trinity has been turned down by 15 libraries (they have the book but
don't want to send it somewhere else). She has started asking these
libraries a second time, but the first one she asked has 30 (!) holds
on the book.

I guess I will try asking someone at Trinity to get it from the San
Antonio Public Library (I live out of the county so I don't have a
card myself).

This book must be as popular as his others.(I'd buy it but my budget
doesn't permit)

What about anyone else? Just wondering.

JoEllen Ralls                                 Jralls@trinity  (Bitnet)
Trinity University Maddux Library             so many books,
San Antonio, Texas                               so little time...
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:48:36 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Bible study deadline

Just a Reminder:

The deadline for letting me know that you are interested in joining the
Bible Study group is August 1 (Saturday.)  Thanks for your interest.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

                                             Love INC,
                                                      ---Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:48:41 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Family Values and Arbitration

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757
I think your fears about a bill such as what Hilary Clinton is proposing
causing the break up of the family is unfounded.  If a family has
mutual respect among the members, then such a bill wouldn't even affect
the family.  If there isn't mutual respect, then there's a definite
problem with the family, but even then most of the time the problem wouldn't
be taken so far as to go to court.  Besides, the court system already has
a major backlog of cases, so only the most serious of cases would even
be tried.  The rest (such as "mom is making me come in too early") would
be thrown out of court before a trial date was even made.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:30:01 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Watchman Nee

Hi all:

Well, I went ahead and jumped into Watchman Nee's "The Normal Christian
Life."  I must say I am, so far, tremendously impressed.  I just wanted
to share this excerpt with the list:

"You believe in the death of the Lord Jesus and you believe in the death
of the theives with him.  Now what about your own death?  Your crucifixion
is more intimate than theirs.  They were crucified at the same time as
the Lord but on different crosses, whereas you were crucified on the
selfsame cross as he, for you were in him when he died.  How can you know?
You can know for the one sufficient reason that God has said so.  It does
not depend on your feelings.  If you feel that Christ has died, he has died.
If you do not feel that he has died, he has died.  If you feel that you have
died, you have died.  If you do not feel that you have died, you have
nevertheless just as surely died.  These are divine facts.  That
Christ has died is a fact, that the two thieves have died is a fact,
and that you have died is a fact also.  Let me tell you, *You have
died!*  You are done with!  You are ruled out!  The self you loathe is
on the Cross in Christ.  And 'he that is dead is freed from sin' (Rom.
6:7)  This is the Gospel for Christians."

  I can't help but think that God has led me to this particular book
at this particular time in my life, as I have had many times recently
when I did not *feel* like a Christian, when I did not *feel* like
God was looking out for me.  But on Saturday (before I read the book),
I knelt before God and told him again that I accepted his will for
my life and that I knew that whatever he wanted and did was the best
for his plan, even though I certainly didn't *feel* like that.  Since
then, I have had a great peace in my heart.

  It is interesting that I watched the telecast from the local Assemblies
of God church tonight, and the sermon was on trusting God to lead you,
no matter what the circumstances may look like, and that I picked up this
book tonight and was reassured that how I *feel* has nothing to do with
the facts of God.

The providence of God is truly amazing.  Praise God and magnify his
name!
                                 Love INC,
                                          ---Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 01:10:07 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Embryos and Ancestors

Darren Provine writes a note on the slogan "Ontogeny recapitulates
phylogeny." As I have pointed out in my Genesis Essays (send the
message TO LISTSERV@ASUACAD GET GEN02 RUFF), evolutionary biologists
today are reluctant to defend this slogan, even as a generalization.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:50:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fact?

<proof.  A fact is anything that exists, is real, or is true.  It is not
<necessary to prove something in order for it to be a fact.

Proof is a method of knowledge.  In the absence of proof, something is not
known to be a fact, whether it is or not.  Proof is necessary to establish
knowledge that something which is claimed as a fact is indeed a fact.

<God exists regardless of whether the atheist accepts this or not.

I can just as easily state that your God does not exist regardless of whether
the Christian accepts this or not.  Neither statements have been demonstrated
as factual.  Hence the need for proof.

<Funk & Wagnall's (sorry, it's the only dictionary I have handy) adds to the
<definition of fact:  "Something asserted to be true or to have happened."

Something asserted to be true is a fact?  One can assert that pi is equal to 3
integral, or that Napolean won at Waterloo, but neither of these assertions are
facts.

<I would also like to point out that many of the things we accept as fact
<are not provable.  Science is based upon a host of assumptions which can
<not be proven but from which are derived every scientific law we have.

Science's assumptions are subject to disproof.  Witness the fate of phlogiston
chemistry.

<Mathematics is likewise derived from such postulates.

The axioms of mathematics are derived from axioms which cannot be proven
theoreticlty, but observed empiracly.  For example, if you can draw more than
one straight line between two points, you will disprove a postulate of
euclidean geomotry.

<In law, the truth
<(verdict, or fact) of a matter is constructed based upon such things as
<witness' testimonies, documents, articles, and consistency.  A similar
<technique is used to form mathematical or scientific postulates.

In each case, findings are subject to future reevaluation.  In no case you have
presented here are the conclusions made claimed to be absolutely true for all
time, as you claim for your God and Bible.

Dan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, North Dartmouth, MA, USA
X-Envelope-to: christia@asuacad.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN::"christia@asuacad"
X-VMS-Cc: EMOREAU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:42:00 EDT
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A
From:         LIZ MOREAU <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Please keep Sarah in your prayers.  She is six years old and is being
operated on today for a tumor on her kidney.  The docters believe that
it is maglignant.

                                                Liz
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: christia@asuacad.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"christia@asuacad.bitnet"
X-VMS-Cc: JADETW01
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:13:00 EST
From:         JADETW01@ULKYVX.BITNET
Subject:      Remarriage after Divorce

Dear Christia members,

First, thank you all for sharing your insight with me in this matter.  Despite
the flames that have seemed to be flaring lately, I sensed the love of Christ
in each post.  And as personal as this topic is to me I'm so grateful.

Ian writes:

>In my opinion, if you are ostracised by any religious body because of your
>divorce, then find another...

I've heard it said several times on Christia that Christians sometimes
"shoot their wounded".  Being in my situation I had the chance to see this
first hand.  I would like to take this opportunity to make the following
suggestion as one who has "been there":

If we hear of a couple going through rough times in their marriage or even
divorce, please, please let us not ignore them hoping that the problem will
go away soon, or thinking that it's none of our business.  They are more in
need of seeing Christs love at that time than most any other.  Go to them
individually and go to them as a couple.  If they want to, let them talk
about their feelings and what they are going through, offer them counsel,
offer them fellowship  but don't "leave them alone" with their pain.  The
Bible talks about this very thing in James 5.  It talks about praying for
those in trouble and it talks about healing and I don't believe it just means
physical healing but emotional as well.  Instead of closing our eyes to
divorce let's be bold and let's confront it in love.
<Jeff gets off soapbox! :) >

In Christ,

Jeff Detwiler
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"christia@asuacad.bitnet"
Original_cc:  MARCHIBOLD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:31:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Christian television

Dear Christia listfolks

A few minutes ago I sent a prat
oops, prayer request for a production van for our Chria
sorry I keep hitting the wrong key - for our Christian television station.

The production we did this weekend in Boulder, Colorado is a good example
of the kind of thing we could do on a regular basis with such a van.

The Univ. of Colo. head football coach, Bill McCartney, is a committed
Christian man. 3 years ago he began a men's ministry called Promise Keepers.
Along with some local pastors, counselors and businessmen they brought
speakers in and invited men to come hear them speak on Christian manhood
(husband, father, single man, employee, employer, layman etc.)  Last year
4200 men came to Boulder for the conference.  This year more than 20,000
men came from all over the country.  I was on the crew for the video production
and more than once tears came to my eyes as men raised their voices praising
God, hugged each other and prayed together.  Many of the talks were hard
hitting.

The production may eventually be seen on CBN, it will be available for sale.
Bill McCartney has taken a lot of hits for this and for being outspoken on
a number of issues in the local press.  But Promise Keepers was a blessing,
and if only a small percentage of those men go home and change the way they
relate to their wives, their children, neighbors, fellow churchmen and
workers, the country could be changed, I really mean that.

Praise God for his love and patience with us, praise Him for His Glory.

Molly Archibold
MARCHIBOLD@MSCD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU