HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Subject: Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:00:19 GMT


In article <1992Apr14.185702.13148@u.washington.edu> ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan) writes:


>	Anil Trivedi:
>
>	 Given that perceptions are an important driving force for conflicts,
>	do you resolve conflicts by (i) clearing up misperceptions if there
>	are any *and* addressing real & legitimate complaints or, (ii) treating 
>	any and all perceptions as legitimate without regard to whether or not 
>	they are rooted in reality?
>
>[more comments]
>
>	Finally, since you mooted the idea of a dialog, what *are* the Hindu
>	grievences and which ones, in your opinion, are legitimate? I am really 
>	interested to know. 
>							- Nagarajan

While I continued an exchange with Shakil here once it got started (it
appears to have reached a point of exhaustion!), I feel it may be
inapprrpriate to get deeper into an India-specific discussion here in
soc.culture.bangladesh; they have been patient enough. 

In a day or so, I'll try to post something on soc.culture.indian .

Regards to all.
From: jahil@MARIA.WUSTL.EDU (|*************THE SPHINX OF SPHINXES ***************, me again!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Testing
Date: 13 Apr 92 07:39:50 GMT

This is just a test...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bihari Massacre and 71 war
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:14:55 GMT
Organization: Software Development, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.bangladesh: 6-Apr-92 Bihari Massacre
and 71 war Tanwir Syed-Mohammad@hpc (6013)

>  I hope that justice will be done to everyone. I hope that killers, like Kader
>  siddiqui will also go through such trials.  (Or should I assume that it is
>  okay for Kader Siddiqui and people like him to kill Non-Bengalis in order
>  to celebrate the independence or may be for revenge.)
> ...
>  Regards
>  Tanwir Syed

As a non-Bangladeshi and non-Bengali who reads this newsgroup, let me
say that I have not really seen any article which said that Kader
Siddiqui's actions were okay. 
As to why Kader Siddiqui has not been tried ...
Well, a wrong is a wrong and two wrongs make a right, but ...
Perhaps, if you re-read your own article, you will notice that while you
do mention and acknowledge the injustices done to Bengalis, your main
concern still is mostly the injustices done to the Biharis by Bengalis.
That being the case, I would expect you to understand that for a people
who have just survived a genocidal assault of massive proportions, in
comparison with which the attacks on Biharis, however real and chilling
they may be to you, from an external perspective is a mere peccadillo,
trying the perpetrators of such actions may not be a matter of high
priority. Particularly when you note that it is only after more than 20
years that we are seeing for the first time, Bengalis initiating some
action against somebody who allegedly actively aided and abetted the
above-mentioned genocide of their own people, and that too, only after
he came back and rubbed it in by apparently making himself a pain in the
butt in various ways to the people of Bangladesh. Well, maybe Kader
Siddiqui should be tried ..., but IMHO, after and only after all the
much greater villains in the episodes of 1971 have been brought to
justice. And yes, you do ask for justice for everyone, but until the
main perpetrators of the genocide of Bengalis are brought to book, IMHO
you would do well to understand the situation of the greater injustices
suffered by Bengalis relative to your community AND FROM YOUR COMMUNITY,
for which, as far as I know, Bengalis really haven't prosecuted or
persecuted your community barring some heated moments in 1971, before
asking for justice for wrongs perpetrated to your community by any
Bengali, in connection with the events of 1971.
Of course, this is really an outsider's perspective and Bengalis may be
may be more charitable and more self-critical than what I would
personally consider humanly possible in this situation, and if so, more
power to them!
___
Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai
Office: UCC 181	Phone: x6406 [(412)268-6406]

Remember: Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
From: misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Politics of Infiltration: Stop Labanonisation of Eastern India
Date: 9 Apr 1992 15:47:46 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1992Apr9.203521.18757@cs.yale.edu> ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
>
>Regarding the question of India's "shrinking uninterruptedly for
>centuries," I think your sense of history is very different from most.
>As a country, India never did exist until the British brutally stuck
>many different kingdoms under their banner.  But casting that aside,
	
	I dont think you are right there. The concept of a nation of 
sorts was there much before what you state. Kings like Asoka, Akbar
and so always maintained a nation status throughout their rule.
From: trivedi@rabi.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Famin's articles on zero
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:03:39 GMT
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago.


Thank you for two very informative articles. I must tell you that
they were hard to read, but then I must also tell you that the effort
required proved worth it. :-)

anil
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Gross Generalizations :-).
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:28:18 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I was raised outside the motherland also. Lets not malign people by
something they had no control over :-).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: alam@ee.rochester.edu (Sheikh Kaisar Alam)
Subject: Re: What the hell is going on?(Please read this!)
Keywords: Golam Azam
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:51:45 GMT

In article <14577@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
>A leaflet was distributed during the "eid er jamaat" in Troy madjid, Michigan.
>I found it extremely disgusting and insulting. I bilieve same sort of leaflets
>were distributed in many other masjids as well. It is being attached below:
>
>******************************************************************************
>This time it is Bangladesh.  As soon as the prime minister Khalida Zia returned
>to Bangladesh after her visit to Washington, DC, Imam Prof. Ghulam Azam,
>the leader of the Islamic movement in Bangladesh was arrested and put in the
>prison. It happened on March 24, '92.
>
Leader of Islamic Movement? From when has planning genocide become Islamic
Movement?

>Bangladesh has one of the largest Muslim population in the world. But Muslims
>who would like to run their affairs according to Islam are constantly
>harassed.
>
Golam Azam is not among them. He, along with many other traitors, should have
been tried long before.

>Imam Prof. Ghulam Azam's citizenship was illegally cancelled in 1973. By the
>canons of International laws and by  the constitution of Bangladesh, Imam
>Ghulam Azam is a bonafide citizen of Bangladesh.  Moreover his father, his
>mother, his grandfather,his great-grand father were all born in the territories
>now called Bangladesh.
>
Illegally cancelled? Hah!!
 
>ACTION SUGGESTED:
>
>Please call and write to the Embassy of Bangladesh informing them of your
>opinion on the issue and requesting them to award Prof. Ghulam Azam his right
>to the citizenship of Bangladesh.
>
>Muslim Alert Network
>A service to ICNA
>(Islamic Circle of North America)
>
This ICNA is definitely a part of Jamaat. I propose we do the fllowing.
>I think it is our duty to protest against this campagne and send letters to
>ICNA,Chicago (address can be found above). We can also send letters
>to Prime Minister Khaleda Zia demading "fashi" of this criminal and to 
>stop harassing the members of "Ghatok Dalal Nirmul Committee" led by
>Jahanara Imam (A person deeply respected by most of us, the young generation).
>Letters can be sent to:
> Embassy of the peoples Republic of Bangladesh
> 2201, Wsconsid Ave, N.W.
> Washington DC 20007.
>
>Guys, please don't remain silent. Do what you can do. It'd take hardly
>half-an-hour and two 29 cent stamps!
>
Yes! Let's do it.

Shuja

Note: I promised Runa that I'll write about Bangladeshi marriage in the net.
That was long back. I hope I'll have some time after this week is over. Sorry
Runa.
From: ps0d@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PRAVEEN SUMATILAL SHAH)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Need information on Bangladesh economy by 25th
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:24:29 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hello netters

This is my first posting to SCB.

For last 3 months I've been following SCB with keen interest.

I am currently working on a country risk analysis for Bangladesh.

This paper plans to analyze Bangladesh (economy, policies, politics, etc.)
from a multinational company or large bank's perspective.  Main focus is on
analyzing the risks involved in investing to private / public sectors in
Bangladesh by foreigners.  (eg. Exchange rate movements- past, trend,
predictions, political outlook, policies, rules about taking the returns of the
investment out of the coutry sometime later, uncertainties involved, etc.
etc.).  More emphasis on next 2/3 years rather than past data.

I would highly appreciate if you could provide me with any information /
opinion you have on the matter.  You may give me references about recent
articles, or provide some facts/figures etc.  I would appreciate if you
provide the information by April 25, this would help me to use the info. for
the paper.  (I will be finishing the paper on April 30).

Thanks a lot for your help.

Praveen Shah.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Have faith in your faith, and doubt your doubts .......
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  PRAVEEN S. SHAH (ORACLE)     | Voice Mail: Off. (215) 758 4945
  Research Engineer            |             Res. (215) 758 8081
  Computer Integrated Mfg. Lab | Fax Mail  : Off. (215) 868 0242
  Harold S. Mohler Building    | Bit Mail  : ps0d@Lehigh.EDU
From: tun@PHY.UCSF.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: more money for more weapons ???
Date: 12 Apr 92 12:46:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: phye.9204121246.AA02807


  >Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.seasia-l
  >Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:31:26 -0400
  >From: Soe Myint Aung <ap38%UMD5.UMD.EDU@UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU>
  >Subject:      Myanmar ...
  >
  >Because I don't have enough time to scan every news from Myanmar,
  >I've presented the only news it seemed interesting to me.

There has been a very bloody fighting taking place along the Burma/Thai border
and by best esitmate, approx. 1500 SLORC's soldiers has died. Don't Myanmar
newspaper mentioned anything about it?

  >I hope the people, who have planed to invest in Myanmar, will satisfy
  >my presentation.
  >
  >BanDooLa [April 10]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  >Yangon, 27 March -- Oil can be exploited commercially from Well No 116
  >of PyayTaungDan oil field beginning 26 March, it is reported.  Myanmar
  >technicians and drilling workers have invested concerted efforts for
  >commercial exploitation of oil from PyayTaungDan oil field.
  >

Oh no!! More money to buy more weapons to kill Rohingyas, Karens, Shans...
men, women, children or is SLORC going to continue to state that there are
no Rohingyas. Don't they count as human being anymore???

Coban Tun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: kazi@bugs.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Capital Punishment?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:53:55 GMT

One of the current threads leads me to ask scb-ers:

		"What is your opinion on capital punishment?"

-- Zunaid H. Kazi           302-456-3493          kazi@cis.udel.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: mzi@troy.uucp (21311-iqbal)
Subject: Shakil and Golam Azam
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:19:50 GMT
Keywords: Golam Azam Trial


Shakil:
Recently we have published a book 
(Bish bachar pore- After twenty years) 
and Mrs. Jahanara Imam wrote an article for us. 
You should read that article (and rest of the book)
to understand the trial of Golam Azam. Bertrand Russel 
tried similar technique during Vietnum era. 
Mrs. Imam did much better than Bertrand
Russel, she proved that her cause has public support.

The trial was not intented to humiliate the 
judiciary system, it is intented to shake the whole system.
Besides, if I am asked to mock a judiciary system 
I will choose Bangladesh. We use our constitution
to protect killers of all kinds.
Remember Siraj Sikder, Mujib and his Family,
Four leaders in prison, Col. Taher, '71 war criminals 
and of course, Golam Azam?

       Muhammed Zafar Iqbal
From: kazi@ravel.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bihari Massacre and 71 war
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:29:55 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <24350004@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> syed@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Tanwir Syed-Mohammad) writes:
>
> The only reason I am posting this article is to know how you guys are 
> justifying the killing of hundred of thousands of Biharis during the
> celebration of independence.  There have been a demand to bring all the
> war criminals to justice.  

I don't think anybody on the net has been justifying the death of innocent
Biharis during the war of liberation. A murder is a murder, regardless of
race. I know that innocent Biharis were killed during that period and for
what little it might be worth you have my apology, shame and commiseration.

> And lastly to Mr. Naeem, Wasi, Zunaid and others - while you are
> condemning the act of Pakistan Army, and do count me in, also do a justice
> to those innocent Biharis got killed by your heroes.  Don't pretend that
> nothing happened to Non-Bengalis before and after independence. 

Have any of us ever pretended so? Asking for justice for Bangalis does not 
imply condoning injustice to others. 

> Regards
> Tanwir Syed

-- Zunaid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Zunaid H. Kazi             302-456-3494        kazi@cis.udel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: We Do Not Need Another Dialog On The Need For A Hindu-Muslim Dialog
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:33:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	We do not need another dialog on the need for a Hindu-Muslim dialog.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahsharif@violet.waterloo.edu (Abdul hoque  Sharif)
Subject: Burma-3/
Keywords: Burma/Politics
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:14:23 GMT



Remark: Scanned from FBIS.

20,000 Muslims Gather on Thai Border

BKO704020792 Bangkok - BANGKOK POST in English 7 Apr 92 p 1

[Text] About 20,000 Burmese Muslims fleeing persecution by Burmese forces
have massed on the Thai-Burmese border, apparently in a desperate bid to win
outside help.

Col Tin Muang That, chairman of the All Burma Muslim Union, a rebel
organisation under the Democratic Alliance of Burma, said yesterday the
plight of Muslims in eastern Burma is as serious as that confronting the
Rohingyas in Arakan State to the west.

Tens of thousands of Muslim Rohingyas have sought sanctuary in Bangladesh
where their plight has gained worldwide attention.

The exodus to Bangladesh has also provoked expressions of concern in some
ASEAN capitals.

Col Tin said the Burmese Muslims, assembled in separate groups in
Karen-controlled areas on the Burma-Thai border, had been deprived of basic
rights and their houses were raided and set ablaze by Burmese soldiers.

He said he was deeply disappointed with the poor response from Muslim
countries, especially Saudi Arabia, towards the suffering of the Muslim
refugees.
From: misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Amnesty & Capital Punishment?
Date: 15 Apr 1992 12:19:03 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <NAEEM.92Apr14173316@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:

>Amnesty International's newest campaign for the elimination of death sentences
>for juvenile offenders lists the US as one of only 9 countries that still does

	The problem with groups like amnesty international is that they will
rant and rave about soo many things but never give any solutions to the 
probelms. Their only solution seems to be to let everyone go., but they arent
the ones who have deal with people who are let out.

>this. Bangladesh heads list of other "barbaric" countries. Also, when this
>issue came up for debate in 1989, American Civil Liberties Union leader
				   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	They cry about everything, so dont mind them. Accoring to them
everybody should have a right to kill. Such groups make me sick!

>was quoted as saying: This is the sort of thing you expect to see in Iran or
>Bangladesh.

	I guess they forgot the fact that it also happens in the US.
These are the benefits of being a superpower i guess.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: anc@cs.brown.edu (Anir Chowdhury)
Subject: Information about Grameen Bank of Bangladesh
Keywords: Grameem Bank
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:34:30 GMT

I am looking for some information about the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh.
I am mostly interested in the following in particular:

1) the self-sustainibility of its efforts, especially in its absence
2) whether it has reached the masses and actually increased their standard
   of living and in what degree
3) whether basic human needs are being met
4) if the PQLI has been positively affected
5) as a part of the social development supposed to be brought about by the Bank,
   if the literacy rate has gone up and people are aware of their rights and 
   duties ascitizens of the nation
6) if the Bank is having a positive impact on the overall rural development of 
   Bangladesh and to what degree

Please reply to the account st102203@brownvm.brown.edu. Thanks in advance.

-Anir
From: a0h9342@zeus.tamu.edu (HAQUE, ANISUL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Moving on from '71
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:47:00 GMT

Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Anisul Haque
Texas A & M University
a0h9342@sigma.tamu.edu 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: SHAKIL AHMED AZAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:59:38 GMT



Attention Mr. Shakil Ahmed
++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Mr. Ahmed,


	  I am posting this letter to the net instead of you is because there
are some issues that all of us need to be cleared about.  While it is very
clear that you are not willing to sign the petition (which you have every right
to do so under the U.S constitution??) I think you should not say that you
support AZAM. You have the right to make your decisions  when you do so
but in the process of doing so you should also consider the emotions and
hatred that the rest of the Bangladeshis(All except you) share about Golam
Azam. Is it time that you reconsider your citizenship Mr. Ahmed?! Or is it the
"Yale" in our node address!


Bangladesh Jindabad.

Asif Ibrahim
University of North Texas
Denton
Tx:76201      
   

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Politics of Infiltration: Stop Labanonisation of Eastern India
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:35:21 GMT


In article <92100.144411DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

> that has been replicated throughout the region. So much so that the Biharis wh
o
> numbered 7.5 lakhs in the Dhaka camps in 1972 are today estimated at only 5
> lakh. Accounting for the 33,000 who were repatriated to Pakistan under Saudi
> aegis, this would imply that nearly 5 lakh Razaakars are in India today.

These Biharis, by their own choice, are not Bangladeshi citizens.
Hence, a question of illegal "Bangladeshi immigrants" does not arise
for the simple reason that they are not Bangladeshi and the
Bangladeshi government does not bear responsibility for them.  The
plight of the Biharis has become a major international problem.

[lots of gas deleted]

>      THE TIME HAS COME FOR INDIANS TO PONDER OVER THE CONSEQUENCES
> OF EXCESSIVE GENEROSITY TOWARDS THOSE WHO DID NOT REMAIN CONTENT
> WITH THIER NORTH-EASTERN PAKISTAN OF 1947. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION FROM
> BANGLADESH IS NOT A HUMANITARIAN PROBLEM, IT IS A POLITICAL QUESTION
> AFFECTING OUR EXISTENCE AS A NATION. THE BORDERS OF INDIA HAVE BEEN
> SHRINKING UNINTERRUPTEDLY FOR CENTURIES; IT IS TIME
> TO HOLD ON TO WHATEVER HAS BEEN SALVAGED.

I have been to India many times, often visiting Calcutta, Delhi and
Bombay.  From what I have seen, the poor in these cities are
significantly worse off than any I have encountered in Bangladesh.
The slums in Calcutta and Bombay are enough to make any slum
inhabitant in Dhaka shudder.  The inevitable question that arises from
this is why would any Bangladeshi in his/her right mind even
contemplate a move to India?  Clearly, economic reasons cannot be the
explanation.

Regarding the question of India's "shrinking uninterruptedly for
centuries," I think your sense of history is very different from most.
As a country, India never did exist until the British brutally stuck
many different kingdoms under their banner.  But casting that aside,
how can alleged refugees possibly contribute towards shrinking
boundaries?  Surely, the only threats to India's integrity do not come
from alleged refugees, but from internal problems such as the ones in
Punjab and Kashmir to name only two?  Pointing accusing fingers at
non-existent illegal immigrants may well serve the purpose of
scapegoat for a certain Indian political party in an attempt to divert
attention from the genuine internal problems.  Thankfully, most people
can see through it.

-- Shakil Ahmed
=======================================================================
Dept. of Computer Science     INTERNET: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu
P.O. Box 2158, Yale Station   BITNET  : ahmed-shakil@yalecs.bitnet
New Haven, CT 06520-2158      UUCP    : {ucbvax,harvard,...}!yale!ahmed
=======================================================================
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Treatment of Minorities in Bangladesh
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:50:17 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Census was held in undivided India in 1941; in Pakistan -both
wings in 1951 and 1961; after the birth of Bangladesh, census
was held both in Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1973-74 (in Pakistan
it was the first census where Ahmadiyas were counted as non-
Muslim), again in 1981. Whether census was held in 1991 in
Pakistan or Bangladesh, I am not sure.

Incidentally, Bangladesh's 1981 census was a pretty good one
by subcontinental standards.

You may refer to:

 AUTHOR    Domschke, Eliane. and Goyer, Doreen S., 1930-
  TITLE     The handbook of national population censuses : Africa and Asia /
            Eliane Domschke and Doreen S. Goyer.

***
arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian