HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davis@passy.ilog.fr (Harley Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:54:47 GMT
Organization: ILOG S.A., Gentilly, France
In-reply-to: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM's message of 5 Nov 92 17:56:47 GMT


In article <lfio2vINN223@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb) writes:

   I moved to Israel on what I thought was permanent aliyah in 1984 and lived 
   there through 1986.  I was told by many other American olim that I should 
   definitely vote in the '84 elections because (1) it enabled you to vote 
   for an American president who might be better for Israel, and (2) it was 
   a sure way of demonstrating your interest in maintaining your American 
   citizenship.  While the latter point may seem hypocritical to you, on a 
   mundane level it meant that olim could visit the U.S. with less hassle. 
   Also, although most of these people were firmly committed to Israel, 
   they wanted their future children to have dual citizenship and they 
   wanted to maintain their own.  As the old saying goes, "It couldn't 
   hurt."  There is no harm in maintaining American citizenship, and 
   there are scenarios where it could be very helpful indeed.

No harm, aside from the fact that it's illegal according to American
law to become the citizen of another country without giving up your
American citizenship.  In practice, of course, it's perfectly
feasible.

-- Harley Davis
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nom: Harley Davis			ILOG S.A.
net: davis@ilog.fr			2 Avenue Gallie'ni, BP 85
tel: (33 1) 46 63 66 66			94253 Gentilly Cedex, France
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: book title:"Cholent"
From: Len Alshan <LMACC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 18:35:51 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Several months ago a small ad for a book called "Cholent:The Art of Jewish
Stew" (or something very close to that) appeared and I can not find it.  Anyone
have any idea as to the publisher.  Have combed the bookstores and tried
Books In Print with nothing but nothin'.  Any help would be appreciated.

Len
From: v206gb6c@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (IS AN ILLEGAL PERSONAL NAME)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Is Hilary Clinton a MOTT
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:51:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <4437@bimacs.BITNET>, rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes...
>What is 'MOTT'?
>

Member of the Tribe

PauL M SchwartZ  (-Z-)  |  Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
v206gb6c@ubvms.BitNet   |         the shifting shafts of shining 
pms@geog.buffalo.edu    |        weave the fabric of their dreams
pms@acsu.buffalo.edu    |                    - RUSH -
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: McDonalds in Israel
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:00:02 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

After hesitation, I throw this.

I am stunned by this thread.
One could believe you all are talking about the Messiah arriving in Israel.
So to you all *.burgers experts, may I ask, did you ever try a SLAVE.burger,
of the kind that you order one, and get forced to swallow 1,000,000 for free?
(the first one is NOT free, ***** REMEMBER *****)

Yaqov Goldberg
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Halakhic Methodology and Burden of Proof
Date: 4 Nov 92 14:44:38 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Nov3.131730.23804@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>In article <2730@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>>In <92306.113217CARIAN@auvm.american.edu> CARIAN@auvm.american.edu writes:
>>
>>>For example, there is apparently a movement in the strictly Orthodox
>>>community to avoid wearing neckties in Shabbat
>>
>>I gave my neckties to a place that was collecting clothes for the New
>>York City homeless before I made Aliya.  If people in my shul start to
>>wear ties to shul in order to show that they're not following chumrot
>>I'm going to be very upset.
>
>Typical supporter of the traife Zionstsiche medina.  Warren ties
>his aliyah with a major act of machti et ha'rabim. :-)
>
What I want to know is what is he going to put around his neck if he
has to go back to chutz la'aretz for any reason whatsoever (long- or
short-term).  A noose maybe (for leaving Israel) ? ;->
>
>
>--
>Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
>   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
>Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
>Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg            |    ^     Life's a dream-so sleep through it!
Bitnet:                     | \-/-\-/         Be'ahavat Chinam
rothberg@bimacs             |  X   X Am Yisra'el       The People of Israel
Internet:                   | /-\-/-\Be'Eretz Yisra'el In The Land of Israel
rothberg@imacs.cs.biu.ac.il |    V   Im Torat Yisra'el With The Torah of Israel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: etzhadat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Hydro Man)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Movies on Video?
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:37:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.83150
Organization: Institute Chaotique for Galactic Sewage Treatment


							BS"D
I'm not sure what's already been, posted, but . . .

Here is a list of films from 1980- which have a Jewish character as one of the
major characters.  In parentheses I've included which characters are Jewish.
All the films are American. Even for that its not quite exhaustive.
Most (except very recent ones) should be in video stores.

Old Topic was battle of the sexes ( mostly Jewish writers! (:-( )
Note (in comparison to nonJews)
Negative Stereotype of Jewish woman
Night Shift (H. Winkler, his first girl friend, her family)

Negative stereotypes of Jewish men
Private Benjamin (title character + some of the boyfriends)
Dirty Dancing (Everyone except the Cuban band leader P. Swayze and his
crowd)

More in the realm of "Cuckolding" films
Desperately Seeking Susan (NJ suburban Jews R. Arquette, her husband, his
sister)
Down and Out in Beverly Hills (the family) 
Sophie's Choice (Nathan--but its really about intellectual rivalry. . .)

Secular Films

the Rocky films (B. Meredith's role)
Chariots of Fire (Harold Abrahams)
Radio Days (W. Allen's childhood family-actually small role)
Heartburn (Nora Ephron & Carl Bernstein)
Cocoon I&II (Bernie and his wife, S. Guenberg?) rare scifi with Jews!
New York Stories (W. Allen & his older mother)
Beaches (Bette Midler, others)
Crimes and Misdemeanors (most)
Goodfellas (main character's wife)
Avalon (the family)
Driving Miss Daisy (most of the family)
Scenes from a Mall (the family)
Prince of Tides (B. Streisand)
Neil Simon and Harvey Fierstien's (sp?) trilogies mainly autobiographical,

More Jewishly Oriented
Most are positive, but I found Homicide a little ambiguous

Yentl (all)
Enemies: A Love Story (all)
Homicide (a detective and a family)
Crossing Delancey (most)
Stranger Among Us (most)

A spy film whose title I've forgotten (Shining Through?) also with Melanie
Griffith (and Michael Douglas) about sneaking into Nazi Germany

Also the film about the episode of the radio announcer and the neoNazis
in Denver whose title I've Forgotten

Latest Hot Topic was Gangster Films
* Once Upon a Time in America (fiction--all Jewish)
** Millers Crossing (fiction couple of Jewish characters)
* Eight Men Out (Rothstein)
* Cotton Club (Dutch Schultz)
** Billy Bathgate (  "   )
** Bugsy (Siegel)

* Pre 1990 films
** Came out in 1990-91

Have a good Shabbes
Paul Kornreich
etzhadat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc5.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Jewish Fundamentalism
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:34:10 GMT

In article <emc.721241807@tristan> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>In <9211051527.AA09281@cyclone.sbi.com> gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:

>
>At the request of yourself and others, let me define what I mean.
>The term Fundamentalist is perhaps too broad and misleading and of
>course, as some have commented, originally is derived from the 
>term for Protestant Fundamentalism.  However, there is an element
>in Judaism of relying on acient texts and interpretations, whether
>it be the Bible or the Oral Law (in its various and diverse 
>manifestations -- some of which are no longer oral but written)
>which are adhered too without regard to advances in science, society,
>or culture.  In other words, if the Rambam said (...) then (...) must
>apply today.  This I feel is dangerous and does not recognize the
>political and social realities of today's world, such as the women's
>movement, homosexuality, political expediency, etc.

Check out Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform responsa.  You'll find that
rabbis in all these groups start with ancient halakhic sources.  Yes,
even the Reform responsa.  And you'll find that all -- yes, even the
Orthodox -- are sensitive to contemporary reality.  And you'll find,
I hope, that none will admit to political expediency.

My guess would be that your definition of fundamentalist is much
like my definition of "meshuga-frum" -- any more than two steps
to the right of my practice. :-)




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Sexism! (was Death and Marriage (was...  ) )
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:18:56 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In: <1992Nov12.013325.11738@netcom.com>
solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) states:

>In article <1992Nov11.225149.17731@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (A
>>But you ask a theoretical question, one that cannot truly be
>>answered.  It's like saying, Tell me, when the resurrection comes,
>>will wives, who had the (mis)fortune to outlive several husbands, be
>>permitted to stay with their several husbands?
>
>That one's easy. Unless I'm very much mistaken, a marriage is
>voided by the death of either partner. Thus, when the woman is
>resurrected, she's not married to any of her former husbands. She
>might choose to remarry one of them, but it's entirely up to her.
>
>Am I wrong?

I do not know  if you are right or wrong, but if  you are right, there
is clear proof of sexism in that religion if there was another need to
prove it.  What do you mean by "but it's entirely up to her".  Has the
man no say in it at all? Perhaps he feels that being married to her is
not  his  ideal,  and  he'd  rather not  be  resurrected  under  these
conditions?

>Andrew M. Solovay    "I've learned a secret about keeping house... after

 Shabbat Shalom,  Michael Shimshoni
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:27:45 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
 <09Nov92.194522.19265@granite.ciw.edu> <92314.212922CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
 <1992Nov10.200405.16219@umbc3.umbc.edu>

In article <1992Nov10.200405.16219@umbc3.umbc.edu>, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu
(Eliot Shimoff) says:
>
>
>But I remain confused about why a Conservative rabbi would accept a
>Reform coversion.  First, it seems likely that Reform rabbis would not
>meet [Orthodox] halakhic requirements for a bet din; at the  very least,
>they (the rabbis) are likely to be public desecrators of Shabbat.  Wouldn't
>that disqualify them from serving on a Conservative-acceptable bet din?

Certainly there is no requirement that members of a Conservative bet din
meet *Orthodox* halakhic requirements; if so, certain Conservative rabbis
themselves would not qualify.

Certain conversion which are invalid l'hatchila are acceptable b'diavad,
and in fact conversions supervised by a "bet din hediotot" are acceptable
even l'hatchila.

>And doesn't the Conservative halakha demand sincere acceptance of
>halakha, again presumably absent in a Reform  conversion?
>
Yes, Conservative conversions require sincere acceptance of the binding
nature of halakha.

This does not mean that the convert must agree to be fully and completely
observant from the moment of conversion. If this were a requirement the
number of conversions in any movement would be close to nil.

A conversion is not invalidated if the candidate has erroneous ideas about
what the halacha does or doesn't require -- even if, from a Conservative
perspective, those "erroneous ideas" are the result of being taught them
by a Reform rabbi (or for that matter an Orthodox rabbi). Didn't Hillel
convert someone who thought that they could subsequently become High
Priest?

The hope is that by having the attitude of Hillel and tending toward
acceptance rather than toward rejection, more people will be brought under
the wings of the Shechina.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Halakhic Methodology and Burden of Proof
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:35:14 GMT

dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:

>   Ah, but what is stricter?  Some apparently feel that it is stricter
>   to forbid wearing a tie.  One could argue that, like wearing kippot,
>   REQUIRING the neckwear is (con)stricter, perhaps on the grounds of
>   showing respect.

Well, one could certainly keep a tied tie hanging around, slip it
over the neck for Shabbat and tighten in.  Since it's not actually
a tightening of the knot, the only possible problem would be
mar'it `ayin.  (That's why I don't do it even in chadrei chadarim.)

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:41:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.215253.19858@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
]In article <9211102318.AA05344@host0.COLBY.EDU> <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))> writes:
]>
]>I see a great variety of tallit (where is my hebrew textbook when i
]>need a plural form?) in our local temple, from the plain white with a
]>few blue stripes, to the rabbis gold-embroidered one, some with
]>colored embroidered hebrew letters, I've even seen on with BLACK
]>stripes and one covered totally with blue stripes (most of them only
]>have a few stripes on either end, this one looked like some sort of
]>kitsch horse blanket).  I want to make (handsew, embroider, etc.)  a
]>tallis for a friend of mine, as a gift, and I was wondering, among all
]>the variations, what are the absolute REQUIRED characteristics of
]>prayer shawls, and what variations are dictated mostly by fashion,
]>and, of them, what do you all find preferable?   
]
]The only requirement is that it have four corners and be larger than a
]certain size and have tzitzit on the corners.
]
]Aside from that it is nice if it's made from wool, with something
]fancy at the neckline area and perhaps a few vertical stripes (black
]or blue is traditional.)
]

Gads, what's with all you guys and wool? 

What's a poor guy like me who's violently allergic to wool supposed to do?
Every time I get near one of you EVIL wool-wearers, I start to sneeze!

(New rule: you're only allowed to wear wool tallit if I'm NOT around! :-)

	<MC>

-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"I prize the cloudy, tearing sky,
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| for the thoughts that flap and fly.
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || For staying in and reading by.
|| carroll@udel.edu             || For sitting under" -Karen Peris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: yair@huha.cs.huji.ac.il (Yair Friedman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What would be the Jewish equivalent of "Islamic law"?
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:02:20 GMT
Reply-To: yair@cs.huji.ac.il
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: huha.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <1dis3mINNm2i@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>, aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
|> 
|> I don't know about muslims, but we (National-Rligious Jews) want
|> to change the currently british-otoman-etc-law in Israel to the

Hillel,

As far as I know Halakha is the base of law in Israel. The british common law
and ottoman las has no status in Israel for several years, with exceptions
of laws that was re-legislated such as the land ownership law (tabu).
If there is no low in some subject the judge has to decide according to the
halakha.

-- 
					Yair Friedman.
yair@cs.huji.ac.il
yair%cs@hujivms.BITNET
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ORTHODOX
Date: 12 Nov 92 08:51:07
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:22:12 GMT

On Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:22:12 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:

> What is even more amusing -- and revealing -- is the ordering of the
> movements.  Almost invariably, it's OCR.  But why?  

Could it be because we're also computer people, and are used to Optical
Character Recognition (OCR). We probably don't watch the Fox network that
much, so we aren't used to ROC, and we're probably not in the Air Force, so
we're not familiar with the Required Operational Capability (ROC). We don't
have that much to CRO about; I'm not sure if CRO is kosher. RCO isn't that
pronouncable, nor do we have regional command officers. ORCs certainly aren't
Kosher, although I'm sure a lot of us have run into them when playing hack.
And, as we all know, CORe memory isn't used that much anymore; it's all
semi-conductor. So, I guess we're stuck with OCR.

(note: OCR, in that order, is correct if you look at it as the percentage
division of s.c.j according to the last s.c.j census)

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gsm@gsm001.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson)
Subject: Re: AIDS testing in Israel
Organization: Mendelson.com
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:50:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.073121.697@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>I just heard on the Sunday morning news that the Israeli Ministry of the
>Interior will now demand AIDS testing for anyone requesting a tourist visa for
>a period of over 3 months. From what I understood, the policy will soon be
>extended  to those requesting to come on ALIYA.


Everything I had read said that this would NOT be the case. It would be 
impossible to repeat a mass exodus if you had to test all of the people
BEFORE you brought them in. 

The test could also be used to deny exit visas by such things as: 

	no facilities for aids testing,

	a 1 year waiting period for a test 
        (There's only one lab in the country....)

 	or just plain old positive results for people you don't want to leave.


So the testing will probably not be used for aliyah. 

The whole thing was started when a Swedish woman did a volunteer stint at 
kibbutz. She infected 8 men before it was found out she was HIV+.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 
(215) 242-8712
gsm@mendelson.com     or uunet!gsm001!gsm
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
From: Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 12:24:53 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Supersedes: <92316.132156YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>

In article <97044@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) says:
>
>In article <92315.121602YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>, YZKCU@CUNYVM (Yaakov Kayman)
>writes:
>>Were there no other problems than that of fundamental Conservative
>>Movement ideology or belief, and there are, I wonder how any Orthodox
>>rabbi can legitimize any Conservative conversion,
>
>That's easy.  There are some with overall Orthodox beliefs but a few
>Conservative practices.  As long as they stay within enough of a
>d'oraisa level of Orthodox observance, they are still considered a
>kosher witness by many.

My point here was that for a conversion to be effective, the prospective
convert MUST agree IN PRINCIPLE to conform to Jewish Law - ALL of it
without exception, as applicable (we have no Beit HaMikdash, so we can't
bring sacrifices, etc.). This is something NO clergy with "overall
Orthodox beliefs but with a few Conservative practices" can assure, since
those "few" Conservative practices form the basis of denying G-d's ulti-
mate authority, substituting Man's "right" to choose in its place.

How then could ANY Orthodox rabbi worthy of the name accept Conservative
conversions as valid?

Though it is, of course, hypothetically possible that three members of
the Conservative clergy can be found who believe in "Torah min
haShammayyim," i.e., divinely-authored Torah, and even still hypotheti-
cally possible that three might be found who even accept "ohl malkhut
shammayyim," the yoke of the Kingship of Heaven, i.e., G-d's ultimate
total authority, in practice it would be virtually IMpossible.

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

Yaakov K.
--------
Yaakov Kayman      (212) 903-3666     City University of New York
BITNET:   YZKCU@CUNYVM            Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

"I will teach willful transgressors Your ways, and sinners will
return to You" -- Tehillim (Psalms) 51:15

After all, I speak the lingo!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:12:10 GMT

>mmg@doc.ic.ac.uk (M M Ghanem) writes:

re whether the Jews built the pyramids ...


>>Unfortunately I have to disappoint you, according to my best of knowledge
>>and to the common knowledge what you are saying is utterly rubbish.
>
>>The pyramids were built by EGYPTIANS not jews. You can check with your
>>nearest library to clarify your facts. If any jews contributed to building
>>the pyramid (although I doubt the fact) I think they were EGYPTIANS.

Did the Jews contribute to building the pyramids?  VERY unlikely;
not a single plaque has even been found, and no Jew would have
been likely to contribute without at least a _little_ plaque.
Nor are there any records of building funds, mortgage burnings,
etc., all of which would have been recorded if we Jews had been
asked to contribute.

Of course there is the adage "al tikri plague ela plaque" ("Do not
read "plague" but "plaque"), suggesting at least 10 plaques.  And
the aggadic material in the Passover haggada suggests that there
may have been many more than just 10 plagues (or plaques). But
that is, after all, only aggadic material.

When you're in love, every day is Purim (or,at least, is suitable
for Purim Torah).




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish