HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Pro-life vs. Pro-abortion
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:14:07 GMT

In <1992Sep30.165802.5761@watson.ibm.com> johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:

>In article <21641@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>|> For one thing, the adrenelin rush is quite a bit different, often even
>|> before I realize I've been severely injured.  "Rubber hammer on knee"
>|> can produce a similar muscular response, but I doubt that the hormonal
>|> reaction is quite the same.

>This could be true.  I suspect that such experimentation has not been
>done, because nobody would volunteer to have her unborn baby injured
>just to see what its hormones do.  And even if the hormones do the
>right thing, you still don't know if it really hurts, you can only
>guess.

Yes, and at what point does a foetus even HAVE a functioning endocrine
system so that you could measure it if you wanted to?  After all, it
is using the mother's blood supply, isn't it?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: moller@austin.ibm.com (Chris Moller)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Why FICA is theft.
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:09:21 GMT
Reply-To: moller@austin.ibm.com
Distribution: tx
Organization: As little as I can get away with.

In article <1992Sep30.114824.153@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806) writes:
> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:

[re FICA]

> 
> >but it was sold to the American public as a government-run pension
> >plan.  If you abolish the system, you damn well better refund the
> >money. 
> 
> 
> Sold to the American Public by whom.  By the government.

Actually, it was sold by FDR in one of the most asinine acts of rampant
socialism ever seen in this country.

>                                                           By "We the
> people".  I.e. Sold to the American Public by the American Public.

One of the most enduring fallacies in this country is that "we the people"
have a hell of a lot to say about how it is run.  Face it: government is
of the politicians and by the bureaucrats.  And politicians are like used-
car salesmen: they'll tell you _anything_, regardless of the truth of it,
to sell you their pet schemes.  Unfortunately, unlike used-car salesmen,
even if you don't want to buy they can ram it down your throat and force
you to pay for it.

[...]

> 
> Why not stop it now and avoid national bankruptcy and worldwide
> economic chaos while we still have a chance to do so?

Because a few politicians might not get re-elected, that's why.

> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
> My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
>  -Public school administration has gone from 15% to 30% of expenses since 1960-

-- 
IBM pays absolutely no attention to my	|   "Giving every man a vote has no
opinions, ergo the foregoing cannot	|   more made men wise and free than
possibly represent its position.	|   Christianity has made them good."
					|     -- H. L. Mencken
Christian H. L. Moller
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5774 alt.politics.clinton:7973
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Good Teachers in Public Schools (Was Re: Clinton ... (was Re: Theft))
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:40:38 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep30.181349.2691@Warren.MENTORG.COM> tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>FACT:  The NEA's budget gets 62 CENTS out of every tax payer.  NOT 62
>cents out of every dollar, just 62 CENTS.  If you feel that the NEA is
>destroying the country, or is draining the budget, try the defense
>department or the interest we pay on the dept.

The NEA is the Teacher's Union.  It sure as hell had better get $0.00 from
every taxpayer.

And I know the amount you are talking about isn't the amount of money spent
on education.  I believe that the total cost of education in this country,
at all levels, for all people, etc. was close to $800B.

>The NEA got about one hundredth of one percent of the taxes I paid last year.
>
>Big deal.
>
>Find another scape goat.

Uh, I'm not complaining about the amount of money that the NEA extorts from
its membership.  I'm complaining about their politics.  The NEA is

	* Anti school choice
	* Pro abortion
	* Pro drug
	* Anti family

Perhaps you are complaining about the National Endowment for the Arts?  In
which case, I'll complain about that piece of pork, too.

>"I like Bill Clinton tremendously.  I know him from the governors' conferences.
>The Democrats nominated their best person, a very able fellow.  The country is
>well served by that choice." -Bush's re-election chair in NJ (Thomas Kean)

It's interesting what some people think is interesting.  I think Bill
Clinton is also a fine candidate for President from the Democratic Party.
And I'll give you a clue why - when Clinton first started running, he was
chastised for being too conservative.  One person commented that why should
they vote for Clinton - why not just for for a Republican instead.  That
person was a Democrat.  Get the picture?  He is much more qualified than
Edward "Keep abortion legal or I'll drive your daughter off a bridge"
Kennedy.

As for liking Clinton, when he was still sticking to his "principles", I
liked him.  I remember seeing him and the DLC on C-SPAN one morning and
thinking that with a new generation of Democrats like him, the old liberal
Democratic party was dead.  Ross Perot's presidency allowed Clinton to
show that Clinton was really a liberal.  We should thank Ross for exposing
another Clinton lie.

Now we know that he DID inhale, he DID sleep with Flowers, he DID dodge the
draft, he DID cover up his mother's malpractice, and he IS a liberal.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: FOR WHITES ONLY:  UC ALUMNA BEQUESTS SCHOLARSHIP FUND
Date: 25 Sep 92 21:16:03 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <4675@d75.UUCP> curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072) writes:

>*6   FOR WHITES ONLY:  UC ALUMNA BEQUESTS SCHOLARSHIP FUND
>     The U-Calif. Board of Regents has unanimously voted to
>accept a bequest from an alumna that will provide scholarships
>only to white students (N.Y. TIMES).  According to the TIMES,
>Marguerite Hornbeck specified that all proceeds from her estate
>"be used to finance a university scholarship there for very poor
>American Caucasian" students.  Hornbeck died in 1990 and left the
>university property in Hawaii and San Francisco, in addition to
>other belongings.
>     U-Calif./Berkeley spokesman Robert Sanders said the
>university system has several scholarships for students of
>specific national, racial and geographic origins, but this is the
>first one limited to Caucasians.
>     According to the TIMES, the university allows donors to
>establish scholarships "on the basis of race, color, national
>origin, religion or sex as long as enough unrestricted funds are
>available to provide equivalent support for other students."
>     Hornbeck did not specify why she chose to help only white
>students, writes the newspaper.  But in her letter to the
>university's Office of Trusts and Bequests she wrote:  "My early
>life has made me very concerned about the very poor American
>Caucasian students who are struggling to get a university
>education (9/22)."

>--
>curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
>My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
>- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-


What's so unusual about this?  Isn't there a United Negro College Fund?  Is 
it for whites/asians/native americans, too?
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: bush veto override
Date: 25 Sep 92 02:21:25 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


*10  FAMILY LEAVE:  SENATE VOTES TO OVERRIDE BUSH VETO
     The Senate yesterday voted 68 to 31 to override President
Bush's veto of the family leave bill (multi.; See DRC 9/23, #12).
The legislation would have required employers to offer protected,
unpaid leave to workers for the birth or adoption of a child, or
to care for seriously ill family members.
     Democrats portrayed the vote "as evidence that Mr. Bush
doesn't support what families really need, despite his pro-family
rhetoric," according to the W.S. JOURNAL (Trost).
     The vote marked the first time the Senate successfully has
voted to override a Bush veto.  The House, which plans to vote
soon, approved the family leave bill 241-161, a margin short of
the two-thirds majority needed to override the veto. Conn. Sen.
Christopher Dodd (D):  "We have a mountain to climb in the House
to achieve an override." (See DRC 9/11, #10)
     The president put forward his own family leave proposal last
week.  His proposal would give employers tax incentives if they
offer family leave policies voluntarily (9/25).

--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: success with at-risk students
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


*2   AT RISK:  QUEENS SCHOOL PREPARES STUDENTS FOR COLLEGE, WORK
     LaGuardia Middle College H.S. in Queens, N.Y., combines H.S.
with college to help prepare at-risk students for success at a
four-year college or in the workforce (AMERICA 2000 Daily
Conference Call).  The school, which opened in 1971, is located
on the LaGuardia Community College campus and is described by the
N.Y. TIMES as one of the best examples of a collaboration between
an H.S. and a college.
     At-risk students are chosen to attend LaGuardia by their
school guidance counselors.  Typically they are students who have
academic problems or long-term absences, according to Principal
Cecilia Cullen.
     She said the school works on the college calendar and
students go to college classes beginning in the 11th grade.
Students also must complete three internships before they
graduate.  And as a whole they "contribute 200,000 hours of
community service a year," said Cullen.  There are 350 sites in
the city that participate in the internship program.  They
include doctors' offices, day-care centers, community centers and
elementary schools.
     Cullen said the dropout rate is less than 5% a year.  "Our
attendance rate is around 80%, and the average in New York City
is 78%.  And [LaGuardia students] represent a group of students
who have had attendance problems."  According to Cullen, 78% of
the students pursue higher education.
     LaGuardia College and Cullen also have developed an
international middle college H.S.  Students attending this school
have spent less than four years in the country and have problems
with English.  Students come from 35 different countries and
speak 52 different languages, according to Janet Lieberman, asst.
to the president of LaGuardia (10/1).

--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
 -Public school administration has gone from 15% to 30% of expenses since 1960-
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 18:12:23 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <4690@d75.UUCP>, curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072) writes:
|>      The bill lacks such Bush initiatives as $1M grants for
|> experimental New American Schools and federal money to help low-
|> income parents send their children to private schools (Stout,
|> W.S. JOURNAL).

81% of the private schools in this country are run by churches. 
Churches get government subsidies galore through tax exemptions.  If
they expect to get MORE taxpayer money, they should lose their tax
exemptions and pay income tax as well.

|> But it would establish several things Bush had
|> sought, such as standards for key subjects, model tests and
|> assessments, and increasing flexibility in government education
|> programs (AP/Balto. SUN).

Make no mistake:  Bush's real agenda is to Christianize the American
Education system.  That's why he vetoed this.  "School choice" is just
a smokescreen.

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"It takes a big man to cry.  And it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."
                                                              -- Jack Handey
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: Prove it!
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:55:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.142907.6992@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>In <1992Sep28.212621.26756@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep25.134526.14899@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>>In <1992Sep24.193955.21806@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <1992Sep22.142619.19948@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>(we expire fools like you quickly
>>>>>around here).
>>>>>
>>>>>You've lied by
>>>>>ommission about what's in Gray's Anatomy and then 'declared victory'.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's just one of your problems, John.  You're BORING.  But that's
>>>>>hardly first on what is a very long list.
>>>
>>>>	Ah, a fine discussion....	
>>>
>>>Perhaps, but given what I was responding to, it was pretty
>>>appropriate.
>
>>	Given what your were responding to hasn't a thing to do with
>>how you are, how your personal ethics allow you to be. You allow 
>>yourself to act childish. That's a convenience I reserve for having
>>fun at play, not for dealing with adults, adult topics in a political
>>newsgroup. 
>
>And you don't view saying things like this to me to be in the same
>vein as what you are complaining about me doing to John?

	I certainly don't, but that you might suggests we are
interpreting each others' posts differently. Do you feel I
insult you? Do you feel I do so in response to your insults only?
Do I call you names? Did I not say _I_ thought you were lying, and
whether or not you were was still in question? Or did I pronounce
you a liar, as though that were final? Did I give my respects to
your non-defense of the accusation? Did I ever come out of the blue
to insult you as though I were a grade-schooler ("BORING, we expire
fools like you")?
	Please, tell me how you see this as being the same. I promise
to consider your opinion. 

>  Why do
>phrases like "physician, heal thyself" and "let he who is without sin
>cast the first stone" come to mind?

	I dunno. You might have a radio on somewhere.... (-:

	

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"They say 'David, what shall I do? They wait for me in the hallway'.
I say 'Don't ask me- I don't know any hallways."- David Bowie, "Scary Monsters"
From: jcj6@ace3.sps.mot.com (james berry)
Subject: BullShit
Organization: APRDL, Motorola Inc., Austin Texas
Distribution: tx
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:19:09 GMT


>My analysis looks at peoples ability to move through the different economic
>classes, not at how much money someone was given through wealth
>redistribution schemes.  If Sam Walton made $2B last year, that's great, as
>long as it doesn't prevent me from making my living.  Your problem is you
>don't want businessmen like Sam Walton making a ton of money until you've
>figured out how to make your ton of money first.  Perhaps if you stopped
>being jealous of how much Sam, Bill, and Michael make, you'd figure out how
>to make it on your own.

Your analysis is Bullshit and you know it.  I will not waste any more time 
on such ignorance.  The fact that Washingtons policies helped at most 20%
of the population is a fact that you can deny all you want to but will not
change.  
And by the way I have seen how much Money you claim to make a year,  I would 
not brag about it.  Your not only talking to students you know.  
All of that said I wish you well, but simply refuse to waste any more of my
time on your drivel.  Good luck to you and your wife on the upcoming birth.  

>-- 
>John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh


James L. Berry  jcj6@giedi.sps.not.com                 
"Sex education in our schools is promoting incest" 
		      The Rev? Jimmy Swaggart
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:22:18 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


                       =====  FOCUS  =====

*10  EDUCATION BILL:  CONGRESS PASSES $800M IN GRANTS
     Congress yesterday passed and sent to the Senate a bill that
would authorize $800M in federal grants to states for school-
reform projects (multi.)  The bill, passed on a voice vote, was
"sharply attacked by Republicans as falling short of President
Bush's proposals." (Clymer, N.Y. TIMES)
     The funds authorized in the bill would cover such reforms as
reducing classroom size, rescheduling days and regrouping
students by academic programs rather than age (AP/Balto. SUN).
Rep. Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.) said, "This bill supports comprehensive,
systematic reforms ... and every family in America can be a part
of the process."
      According to the SUN, Ed Sec Lamar Alexander has sent a
letter to Senate leaders saying he would recommend the bill be
vetoed by President Bush.  Alexander:  "This bill epitomizes what
is wrong with American education today.  It evidences the cozy
relationship between the majority members of the education
committees and the entrenched education special interest who are
most responsible for the current state of American schools and
who have a vested interest in preventing any real and legitimate
change."
     The bill lacks such Bush initiatives as $1M grants for
experimental New American Schools and federal money to help low-
income parents send their children to private schools (Stout,
W.S. JOURNAL).  But it would establish several things Bush had
sought, such as standards for key subjects, model tests and
assessments, and increasing flexibility in government education
programs (AP/Balto. SUN).
     According to the N.Y. TIMES, "It is too late in the session
for a veto to be sent back to Congress and voted on." (all cites
10/1).

--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
 -Public school administration has gone from 15% to 30% of expenses since 1960-
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5744 alt.politics.clinton:7722
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Good Teachers in Public Schools (Was Re: Clinton ... (was Re: Theft))
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:03:23 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <00717391398@elgamy.sccsi.com> elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>
> From article <21611@rpp386.lonestar.org>, by jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II):
>
>> ... someone who claims to be a "good" teacher would be in an
>> environment where "good" results occur.
>
> Really? How do you know that "good" results DON'T occur where I teach?

Haugh also seems to be unaware that the movie "Stand and Deliver" was a true
story.  Jaime Escalante, the high school calculus teacher whose story was
told in the movie, moved up here to Sacramento a little over a year ago.  He
requested and was assigned to the urban high school here with the lowest
math scores in the county.  He was fabulous in inspiring his students in LA
to realize their potentials, and he's doing the same here.  Mr. Escalante
creates the environment where good results occur because he's a good teacher,
not the other way around.  I went to public school through 12th grade, got a
degree from an excellent private college, and attended additional classes in
three state universities.  In every class I took, regardless of the nature of
the institution, good results occurred when the teacher was good, and poor
results occurred when the teacher was incompetent.

Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244		--------------------+
| "The Americans call me by value, and the Europeans call me by name."	    |
|							 - Niklaus Wirth    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Pro-life vs. Pro-abortion
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:16:50 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep29.152028.21240@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>You'd think so, but there is much controversy in the medical
>community, which indicates that it's not so cut and dried.  "Pain" is
>sort of a value judgement for an observer.  When does "reaction to
>stimulus" start to become "pain"?  If I hit the space just under your
>knee with a rubber mallet, your leg will react by kicking forward, but
>most people don't describe this as painful.  Unfortunately we can't
>ask the fetus if "this hurts", so the controversy rages on.

I don't know how much pain you've suffered, but having been a motorcyclist
for 16 years, I've been through quite a bit.  There is a qualitive
difference between "stimulus" and "pain".  As someone who is extremely
ticklish (OK, so the secret is out ;-), I can tell you that being held
down and tickled for 10 or 15 minutes causes my body to respond quite
differently than if I slide across dry pavement at 50MPH and open a few
square inches of skin to the fresh air.

For one thing, the adrenelin rush is quite a bit different, often even
before I realize I've been severely injured.  "Rubber hammer on knee"
can produce a similar muscular response, but I doubt that the hormonal
reaction is quite the same.  [ And no, I really don't have any books at
all on this subject, so I can assure the fine readers of this group that
they won't be hearing any more on the subject from me ... ]
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics