HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mouser@athena.mit.edu (Christopher B Siren)
Subject: Clark Ashton Smith (Was: Re: Lovecraft Thread)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:44:52 GMT

In article <9207211339.AA12850@rutgers.edu> WTS@harvarda.BITNET ("WADE T. SMITH") writes:
>Hi guys and gals-
>Loved to see the H.P.Lovecraft discussions, and keep 'em comin'.
>This should be the time to mention my personal favorite among the
>great purveyors of scares and lurid prose-
>Clark Ashton Smith (no relation) who IMHO constantly out Lovecraft's
>Lovecraft, out Poe's Poe, out Hawthorne's Hawthorne, and is largely
>ignored by today's generation!
>I'm not even sure he's still in print.
>I'm holding on to my dog-eared volumes.

CAS is still in print, at least as of last year when I ordered 
_A_Rendezvous_in_Averoigne_ through B. Dalton.  It's a hard cover
containing short stories occurring in Averoigne (4), Atlantis (3),
Hyperborea (4), Zothique (10), and nine assorted others.  As far as
I know, Arkham House is the only publisher which carries him and
so you'll have to pay hard cover prices ($22.95); but if you
can't find the Balantine paperbacks it's worth it IMHO. 
Also, the dozen or so J. K. Potter illustrations are excellent.

Chris Siren, The Gray (Mouser@athena.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:43:18 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: space opera: definition
	<1992Jul23.071843.4307@bb1t.monsanto.com>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 23-Jul-92 Re: space opera:
definition bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com (2327)

> > The term comes by analogy for "soap opera," for bad romances, and "horse
> > opera," for bad westerns.
> > 
> > Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach

> I hope that the analogy was *not* intended to continue "...and 'space 
opera,' for bad science fiction."

Well, that's exactly what was intended. If you happen to like space
opera, argue with the people who came up with the term, who are probably
dead. :-)

The term has apparently drifted since then, to refer to the sort of Doc
Smith stuff that other people have been discussing. But maybe to readers
of Westerns, "horse opera" is the same sort of null-reality
entertainment. I dunno. 

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:45:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <Brr3tz.CL9@cs.psu.edu>, schwartz@roke.cs.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) writes:
> tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes:
>    It's difficult to describe why you enjoy a book when if you try to
>    dissect it, it becomes that much less enjoyable.
> 
> In other words, paying attention to what you just read makes it seem
> unpleasant?  Hey, you do agree with Nick after all!

Good try, but no prize.  Do you enjoy listening to classical music?
Do you think you would enjoy it as much if you felt compelled to
analyze exactly what you enjoy about it and why?

>    The Belgariad has gotta have something going for it or it wouldn't
>    be so incredibly popular...
> 
> Sure, it's totally shallow and saccharine.  People love stuff like that.

Believe it or not, depth and sophistication are not directly related to
enjoyability of a story.  I've read more complex books, some of which I
enjoyed and some of which I didn't.  Same goes for books which fall in
the "mind-candy" category, which I think the Belgariad does.

-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Subject: Re: Modest Award Proposal. . .
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.221444.14324@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:

>(If there's no exact match of author *and* title, ENTERVOTE scans for near-
>matches.  This is the only difficult part of the program, and there're a lot
>of algorithms available to do that now.  If none of the near-matches seems
>right, a new Book: record is created.)

You're going to need some substantial human work to sort out
near-matches that are wrong, books with multiple titles, spelling errors
too egregious for your matching algorithm, and so forth.  You're also
assuming that votor names are unique.  I once helped administer a system
graced with two Steve S. Smith's; username was dependent on real name,
so for about a month they had only one account and were very confused by
its behavior.

Managing a large data-base--and this one could get pretty big--is, by
the account of everyone I know who does it, not simple at all.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:01:25 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

In article <3562@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2 (Sea Wasp) writes:
>	Space Opera is the Science-Fictional equivalent of the Heroic
>Fantasy. While there ARE exceptions, in general Space Opera fits the
>following criteria:
>
>	1) Good is GOOD, Evil is EEEEVIL, and there is NO doubt about who's
>the Good Guys. 
>	2) The Heroes are the Best around, and generally have some kind of
>special abilities that put them way ahead of their competition (except of
>course for their main adversary)
>	3) Science may have lots of buzzwords but is WAY beyond anything 
>credible (in general the "science" goes far beyond the standard SF
>handwaving and edges close to fantasy)
>	4) Strange psychic powers are common.
>	5) The SCALE of everything is just gigantic. Ships are big,
>fleets are monstrous, planets explode, stars explode, galaxies or even
>universes explode. People aren't fighting for one small planet or even
>a small system, but for The Universe As We Know It.
>
>	Some good examples:

Here's another (practically unknown) example.  The author is Stephen
Ames Berry.  The books are _The Biofab War_, _The Battle for Terra 2_,
_The AI War_, and _The Final Assault_ (in that order).

The background is that about 5000 years ago, the galaxy was ruled by
a human empire with almost god-like technological powers.  Our Heros
are the descendants of this Empire, just coming out of a dark age,
and searching out any and all ancient Imperial technology to aid in a
genocidal war against the S'Cotar: teleporting, telekenetic, mind-reading,
mind-sucking shape-changers, who are bent on the extermination of all
human life everywhere.  The story opens with Our Heros in search of
a semi-mythical Imperial Matter Transporter, entering a system that
hasn't been visited since the fall of the Empire: our very own, natch.


And no, that's not giving anything away.  All of that is revealed (or
implied) in the first chapter of the first book.  Berry does quite a
bit of blurring the line between the good guys and the bad guys, but
otherwise, the series meets every criteria listed above.

And shoot, I haven't even mentioned the alternate reality where the
Germans won WWII, or the AIs, or ... well, just read the books.  IMHO,
they're great fun.

Most (probably all, by now) are out of print, so you'll have to scrounge
the used book stores to find them -- but it shouldn't be too hard.  I
see them frequently when I go looking...

-- 
Mary had a swingin' lamb/he followed her to
	school

She hocked his wool for a bongo drum and man that lamb was
	cool.

		-Mr. Know-it-all
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tmyoung@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Thomas M. Young)
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 09:24:32 EDT

In article <burt.711946518@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees) writes:
>
>  The differences in math are in the area of mathematical reasoning and
>in the best studies I know of they are hug[e].  E.g., with a sample
>population of something like 60,000 mathematically gifted 13 year olds
>given the math part of the SAT's boys outnumberded girls in the over
>700 score group by 13 to 1.  There is the question of how much of this
>is cultural bias, but one doubts that it all is.
>
>  For me the question is still whether or not there are areas of math which
>have just not been developed because they rely on forms of cognition that
>women do better than men.
>
>bhv

From your description, the study didn't so much say that a given male is
more likely to be mathematically gifted as it did that society is better
at producing mathematically gifted males.  Of course, that's not a 
particularly fatal error (IMHO) since I don't really care if the method
for producing mathematicians (or grocers, for that matter) is encoded
with genes or memes.  Memes mutate faster than genes, so if you really
feel the need to make exactly 50% of your mathematicians female, you may
have a preference in where the traits get encoded.

It stands to reason that with the existing anatomical and hormonal 
differences, the talents exhibited by males and females would differ.  
It should be noted though, that these anatomical differences may be 
due in part to social conditioning.  (Brain development after birth is 
known to be affected by such things.)  Very little of the differences in
talents shown between sexes, races, or sexual preferences may be genetic.

On the topic of homosexuality, has anybody seen anything about how 
homosexuals respond to Androstenol?  This is an (odorless?) airborne chemical
produced in male underarm sweat which reacts with the vomeronasal organ 
in both sexes. It causes an aversion reaction in males and increased
gregariousness in females.  It would be interesting if homosexuals responded
differently than heterosexuals.  Anybody seen a test of this?


--
Tom Young                                         tmyoung@rodan.acs.syr.edu
From: aldis@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Aldis Ozols)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Iain Bank's "Use of Weapons"
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:19:57 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32

rogrif@SNLL-ARPAGW.LLNL.GOV (griffith richard o) writes:

>I found CP to be quite good and incrediably depressing, all at the same
>time. 

I found it much the same way when I first read it, but I didn't really
have a good grasp on the nature of the Culture and of its opponents
at that time.  When I read it again a couple of years later, having read
other related books in the meantime, I found it thoroughly enjoyable.
***Mild spolier warning***






















Without consulting the book again, I'm sure that the Mind got saved and
was put in a ship.  This is the ship which names itself the "Bora
Horza Gobochul", after the hero of the story, who sacrificed himself
to gain this tactical advantage for the Culture.  The Culture goes on to
win the struggle against its strait-laced foes, relying on the great
flexibility and strength inherent in its high-tech anarchistic 'system'.

One consistent theme in these books is the way in which a libertarian
society, given sufficiently advanced technology, can resist the expansion
of more authoritarian ones.  I also liked the game of Damage :-)

 Having been warned by other Bank's fans on the net, I was better
>prepared for "Use of Weapons".  Although I found the writing in UoW to be
>more disjointed that CP, for some reason the ending was much less depressing
>to me.  I am now trying to decide if it was ACTUALLY less depressing than`
>CP, or if I was simply prepared for Bank's style and therefore was not
>shocked as much as I was with CP.  I WAS extremely suprised, but perhaps
>finding out that the good guy was the bad guy, so to speak, twisted up my
>feelings and kept me from getting pissed about the ending.

Well, if you've survived the most negative of the Culture novels,
you'll probably love _The Player of Games_.  It's a romp by comparison,
with the added bonus of thoroughly despicable low-tech imperialists
getting a dose of Benevolent Culture Intervention (TM) :-)
As for the ending of _Use of Weapons_, I'm still not sure what hapened.
Guess this is a good excuse to read it again!

Aldis Ozols
Sydney, Australia

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 21:39:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

jsinger@banach.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer):
>Surely a long period of peace and stability would give them time to come up
>with some other solution...Maybe a technological solution of sorts--oh,
>hell, I don't know, a new interstellar drive based on different principles?  

But this is a Crazy Eddie way to think.  And by Motie standards, such
thinking *is* insane, so you're unlikely to come up with much support
for a Crazy Eddie scheme whose only benefit is a breathing space.  Recall
that the Moties are not being unreasonable:  Every Crazy Eddie scheme
but the one that works (and so far none has worked) does harm.

>Breaking apart their gas giant with planet-cracking bombs in order to 
>generate new living space?  Building themselves a ringworld? A dyson-sphere?

These are *really* not solutions.  Do the math:  At Motie breeding rates,
a ringworld or a dyson sphere would be filled up within a few centuries,
and then you'd *really* have problems.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   It was mentioned on CNN that the new prime number discovered
   recently is four times bigger then the previous record.
				-- John Blasik

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Subject: Re: Mote background ???
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:23:05 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: usa
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Jul21.072558.25101@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rclark@lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Clark x4971) writes:

   		I recall that in 76 or so N/P did a 'how we got together
   and wrote it' piece which apeared with a short story set on New Scotland
   back during the Wars covering the time the Crazy Eddie Probe was being
   launched. They were in some issue of Galaxy around late 75 or 76.

I don't know if this is the same thing, but something very similar was
published in the UK paperback edition of Pournelle's "A Step Further
Out" (don't know if it originally appeared in that column, or in other
editions of the book). From what I remember it was meant to go in
`Mote' but they had to trim it.

Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jam@cse.unl.edu (James Macfarlane)
Subject: Re: Going Back in Time to Meet Jesus Christ -- What Would You See?
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:03:50 GMT

pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes:

>pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:

>>If you want to know what it was like, watch Monty Python's "Life of Brian".
>>The original title was Life Of Jesus, but some people felt that would be
>>too realistic. Always look on the bright side of life ...

>Actually, there's a very good Sf short story about package holidays
>to Jerusalem at the time of Jesus to witness his crucifiction. Can 
>anyone remember the title?

I have the story in question, but right now I can't seem to remember its
real title, but it's something on the order of _Time Patrol_.  This 
segment is only a small part of it, but the whole story is quite goodIMHO.
I also can't remember who the author is, but it is something like Moorcock
would write.  I'll look when I go home, and if noone else has responded, will
fill in the blanks.
-James

>P.
--

James A. MacFarlane    |                           | 2500 S. 10th St.  #30
jam@cse.unl.edu        |    THIS SPACE FOR RENT    | Lincoln, NE  68502-3439
University of Nebraska |                           | voice: (402)438-6632
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: "slow glass": story reference sought
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:47:51 GMT

One flaw in the slow glass novel that really irritated me was the part where
scenedows became less popular because people tended to throw bricks thru them;
why didn't people just mount them on a wall, with a convincing fake window
frame?

--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Jaran_ by Kate Elliott
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:53:10 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <BrpDLt.9nr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:

>Well, the book is certainly entertaining. I'm not sorry I 
>spent four bucks on it. But how is the science-fictional element
>relevant to the plot?

>If instead of a young Terran woman marooned with primitive extrasolar
>humans (most of them handsome young men), you had a young eighteenth-century
>New England woman marooned with Native Americans (most of them handsome 
>young men), or a young nineteenth-century British woman marooned with 
>Cossacks (most of them handsome young men), or a young Roman woman
>marooned with barbarians (most of them, well, you get the idea) wouldn't
>it be the same book?

Yes and no. It really is a "people" novel, more than a "science" novel,
and stories about people tend to be pretty universal. 
[The following aren't exactly spoilers, but if you're a purist, hit 'n']

The book was written to be read by a primarily American audience, and
Americans are the most free people on Earth. If you now take Earth to
reflect American culture, the Chapalii have taken away "our" freedom. Life
in general hasn't changed much, but humans are no longer in control of
their destiny. Now look at Ilya and the jaran. Ilya is a great leader,
with great vision. He wants to take over the khaja, and see the world.
But in the galactic scheme of things, he is powerless. Charles and/or
the Chapalii own his planet. He isn't free, just like Earth isn't free.
Tess herself, the heir to the most powerful human in the Chapalii empire,
is also not in control of her own destiny. None of these themes would
work as well in the other scenarios you mention, since the young women
and the cultures are different enough that the themes regarding freedom
wouldn't apply.

Of course, it helps that I'm halfway through the sequel, "Sword of Heaven,"
which is an even better book, and in which the science fiction setting is
much more important. ("Sword of Heaven" will be out in March '93.)


--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Subject: Paratwa Saga
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:59:51 GMT

Does anyone know the story on Christopher Hinz's Paratwa Saga?  I read the 
first book Liege_Killer 5 or 6 years back and since then was checking for a
sequel every time I entered a book store.  I only recently discovered that there
was a sequel and when I ordered the book from Encore books, I find out that
the one I ordered was the THIRD book.  The second one, Ash_Ock isn't even
in print anymore I think.  For such an awesome beginning the series died
incredibly fast...any clue why?

<--The-Dark-Elf-<<<
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:42:04 GMT

: >Let's put an IMO on that there statement, eh?  Eddings original Belgariad
: >(IMHO) is one of the all time classics of fantasy.  True that everything since
: >then has been much weaker, but that's due in a large part to his style repetition which can get old after a series or two.
: 
: ><--The-Dark-Elf-<<<
: 
:  Very well, _IMHO_, this is an utterly pathetic series.  Anyone who does not 
: throw up after reading the series must have a stronger stomach, and far less 
: taste, than I do.
:
: Nudd

Of course, more objectively, all we can say is that anyone who likes it must
have different tastes than you.

I liked the Belgariad, think the Malloreon is a bit of a rehash, and find the
Elenium extremely tedious.  My wife likes them all.  We have different tastes.
End of statement.

One can perhaps say objectively that one person has more sophisticated tastes
than another--sophistication in this case being roughly equivalent to being
willing to forego immediately gratifying elements in the story for elements
that gratify a bit less immediately.  I'm at a loss to express it any better
than that...but surely someone out there knows what I mean...

--
---Alfvaen(a.k.a. Aaron V. Humphrey, Page of Newts)
Canadian Network For Space Research, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
"And now only one things remains--the brute will to survive."
Current Album--The Waterboys:A Pagan Place
Current Read--Eileen Kernaghan:Journey To Aprilioth
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Books From Alien Perspective.
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:48:53 GMT
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

In article <1992Jul23.180245.16465@pony.Ingres.COM> bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer) writes:
>"The Crucible of Time", by John Brunner - in some ways this reminds me of
>Forward's "Dragon's Egg", in that it covers many generations of development
>by an alien culture, as they become progressively more scientifically
>knowledgeable.  Brunner's setting isn't nearly as strange, but it is
>interesting, and he is basically a much better writer than Forward.  Also,
>Brunner's novel has no mention of humans, except possibly for a very oblique
>incidental reference at the end of the book (and you have to read something
>into that one).  If we ever get to rate Brunner in the author polls, I may
>stick this one in my with a +1.  It's an unusual effort, and it works.

Another vote for "the Curcible of Time".  One of the most interesting
feature of this alien culture was that the intellegence of one
of the aliens was directly related to how well feed he was.  They could
literaly get smarter by eating better.  Which made for some interesting
religiuos problems with "fasting" cults.

--
Mark Biggar
mab@wdl1.wdl.lroal.com
From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Dealing with Jump shock (Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:56:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Something occurred to me while reading this thread:
How do the Imperials deal with Jump Shock themselves
when they have to invade a hostile seccesionist planet?

Since all jump points near a populated system are charted out,
all the would be seccesionists would have to do is install
humungous space weopons guarding the jump points. When the
Imperial fleet jumps through to enforce law and order, the
defenders could blast away at the Jump Shock suffering fleet. 

While in theory the Imperials might be capable of dispatching a 
large enough fleet at once to eventually defeat the defenses, it 
would probably be VERY feasible for the seccesionists to make enforcing 
Imperial will prohibitively expensive. 

Pournelle and Niven's galaxy does not seem to be a place that's
favorable to star fleets patrolling and enforcing Imperial law.

-Han