From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 12 Jan 93 05:22:48 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <1993Jan11.160004.6332@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Andy Finkel (andy@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
>: Check your disk labels;  mine say 'Graphical Environment'.  Check
>: the Microsoft manual;  mine say 'graphical environment'.   (I didn't
>: keep the box, so I can't look there)
>:
>
>Check the ads.  They say "Operating System".

Ads are usually written by the marketing department.  Are you
telling us that's where you turn to for definitive answers on
technical matters ... a Marketing Department ????

>: >
>: >Of course I had checked.  The information I posted was gathered from
>: >what I read in several descriptions of FastDisk.  *IF* the MS employer
>: >who posted here was correct, those descriptions were wrong.  The point is
>: >that Windows supports real filesystem drivers, and in theory does not
>: >require DOS.  FastDisk's limitation is a compatibility issue; nothing more.
>:
>: How did you check ?  Did you find documentation that says 'Windows uses
>: no calls from MSDOS' ?  Did you run a scan of all the interrupt vectors,
>: tracing the code they point to ?  To paraphrase yourself (in this
>: very thread) HOW DID YOU CHECK ?
>:
>
>I just told you.  The information I posted was based on what I read in
>several publications.  They all described it as a driver which causes 
>Windows to go directly to the hardware for disk access, bypassing DOS/BIOS.

No, you didn't tell me.  Cite your sources, please.
For example, if I wanted to demonstrate that Windows 3.1 used MSDOS,
I could cite "Windows 3.1 Insider - Weiskamp", "Programmer's Intro
to Windows 3.1",  The Waite Group's "Windows Programming Primer Plus",
"Windows API Bible" or "Writing Window's Device Drivers - Norton", among
others.  

So, how did you check ?  What sources can you cite ?  I'd like to
see documentation that discusses the FastDisk interface without
describing its place in system operation.  I can believe such
an imcomplete document exists;  its not something that I'd care
to rely on for information, though.

(In poker terms, "I call.")

Now, let's assume you do cite sources.  Are you then saying
that, because you read that the FastDisk driver hits the hardware
directly, you then assumed that _naturally_ it _must_ be the
way that Windows always talks to the disk ?

That's as bad an assumption as assuming out that because OS/2
comes with the VIO interface, PM uses it.

>: Windows is certainly an OS;  as long as you don't exclude some of
>: its parts.  Wasn't it you, yourself who claims that its being
>: sold in two parts for 'marketing reasons' ?
>:
>
>Yes, and I'm still making that claim.

Then follow the claim through to its logical conclusion, and accept
that MSDOS had to be a part of Windows 3.1 for it to operate.

>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |

			andy
-- 
andy finkel		andy@cbmvax.commodore.com

"There are two kinds of fool.  One says, 'This is old, and therefore good.'
And one says, "This is new, and therefore better.'" - Dean Inge

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