HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: FOR PEOPLE WHO THINK (Part 3)
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:00:51 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <26502@life.ai.mit.edu> hra2@Lehigh.EDU (Hibatur Rahman Ahmad) writes:
   FOR PEOPLE WHO THINK (Part 3)

				   The Universe

I have a question to a thinking brother:

   Not for idle sport did *We* create
   the heavens and the earth
   and all that is between.
41:
 9. Say: What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created
 the earth in two periods, and do you set up equals with Him?
 That is the Lord of the Worlds.

 10. And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He
 blessed therein and made therein its foods, in four periods:
 alike for the seekers.

 11. Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a
 vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both,
 willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

 12. So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and
 revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the
 lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard;
 that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.

79:
 27. Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it.

 28. He raised high its height, then put it into a right good
 state.

 29. And He made dark its night and brought out its light.

 30. And the earth, He expanded it after that.

 31. He brought forth from it its water and its pasturage.

 32. And the mountains, He made them firm,

 33. A provision for you and for your cattle.


Above are two passages from the Honorable Qur'an about the creation of
earth, then the heaven (or first the heaven, then the earth). Can you
give me a complying interpretation? I am looking for one...

       Another proof that the Quran is a divine revelation is its concordance
   with all modern scientific findings.  The above verse is concerned with the
   scientific discovery in astronomy made only a few years ago.  The findings
   confirmed that the universe was created of primary nebula mass.  This mass was
   later separated to form galaxies, then stars from which planets, including
   Earth, were later born.  These stars and planets revolve own their orbits.
   The verse also gives an affirmation of the modern scientific  idea that the
   origin of life is aquatic.  The MIRACLE of the Quran is that it is 100%
   scientifically accurate.  There is not even a word in the Quran that
   contradicts Science.  There are many scientific verses in the Quran and we
   invite you to read our booklet "The Quran and Modern Science".




--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: hyder@madhouse.b11.ingr.com (Hyder Ali)
Subject: Demonstration in support of Bosnia (in San Jose)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:11:00 GMT


[Postmarked: 12 Aug 1992]
"Demonstration in support of Bosnians is being held in downtown San Jose,
801 N 1st street, in front of city hall, on Saturday august 15th, 1992, by
the Muslim Community Association. Please be there for show of strength".
(P.S. time: 11:30AM)

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Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (Asem Qaddoura,xt-dk,1209)
Subject: RE: Interest/Financing cars and homes
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:14:00 GMT

[Postmarked: 12 Aug 1992]

In article 26443@life.ai.mit.edu, ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes:

>In article <1992Jul24.160646.11277@eng.umd.edu> naina@eng.umd.edu ('Mohammed Rafay) writes:
>
>   Assalam alekum,
>
>   I have a question and a doubt if anyone can calrify it I would really
>   aprreciate their help and may Allah reward them for their help.
>
>   My question is about interest or financing of cars and homes.
>   Is it okay if you buy a car from a dealer with financing? I know that
>   I will be paying interest but, one of the brothers said that don't 
>   look at it from the interest point of view think that the car costs 
>   so much and that you are paying that in installments. 
>
>That's correct, and I heard of a brother who has studied hadith and
>tasfeer that one can see it as a price. I do not know if this can be
>seen such if the dealer says that one has to pay interest +
>installments. If you want my personal opinion, I would not buy it in
>the second case, but it is OK in the first. Even if the installments
>are calculated according interest rates...
>[..]
>
>
>   Your brother in Islam 
>
>   Rafay Mohammed.

AsSalam Alaikum,

Brothers/Sisiters, Interst Is Haram no matter how you look at it.
Since it means the percentage of an increase(extra) amount, then
that is one of the difintions of riba.
Second, The dealer does not sell you the car, the fact is, he sells
it to a bank/financing institute which in turn sells you the car with
an interest rate.
I heard another opinion about this, it says don't read the buy/sell 
contract-just sign it, this way you are not responsible about what 
the contract says about interest because you don't know.  This is
really silly.  In this case we are acting like the jews, they [knew]
what is halal and haram, but they wanted to change that to enjoy 
a better life?   Allah does not accept this kind of acts for his
servants.
Our way of success is to follow the commands of Allah and his 
prophet(SAWS), and for muslims, they will never succeed otherwise.

Yours in Islam
Salam Alaikum,
Asem
From: mackenzi@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Paul Mackenzie)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Definition of Islamic State
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:32:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)

[Postmarked: 10 Aug '92]

Could someone please explain the details of the term "Islamic State" ?
I know that in Algeria some people are very afraid of it (else why would
they cancel free elections) but I do not know why.  I have a few ideas,
but no real facts.  I would be most interested in how an Islamic State 
would view and treat non-Muslims living there (i.e. would it make laws
forcing them to follow Islamic rules, like dress codes, food, etc ?).

So if anyone can help me out here, please do.

Merci,

Paul
From: jisrawi@physics.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Algeria: Freedom of press "the junta" way
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:46:05 GMT



             ********************************************
             * ALGERIA SUSPENDS 3 NEWSPAPERS IN CAPITAL *
             *                                          *
             * The New York Times, Monday Aug. 10, 1992 *
             *                                          *
             ********************************************
 
 
Algiers Aug.9 (Reuters) -- The Algerian authorities have suspended three
Algiers newspapers, the first to be suspended since the military-backed
gvnmnt closed those published by the fundamentalist Islamic Salvation Front
in March.
 
The Sunday issues of Le Matin, a leftist daily, and of La Nation, which is
close to the former ruling party, the National Liberation Front, were seized
at the printing press overnight, their editors said.
 
This afternoon the police ejected journalists from the offices of Al-Jazair
al-Yaoum, a paper sympathetic to the Islamic opposition, and closed its 
offices, witnesses said.
 
Al-Jazair al-Yaoum was openly hostile to the gvnmnt's decision to cancel
elections in January. In its last editorial, it mocked the govnmnt's
failure to stop attacks on members of the security forces and described those
in power as faceless men who would make no lasting impression.
 
Officials said La Nation had helped to destabilize the country by erroneously
reporting on July 26, that the authorites had arrested the spiritual leader
of Algeria's tuareg tribesmen (???). The govnmnt said Le Matin had "damaged
the supreme interests of the country".
 
################################ END #######################################
 
 
Taaliiq:  In its attempt to portray an atmosphere of normalcy, the 
Embassy's newsbulletin has been consistently quoting in "revue de presse" 
the now-suspended publications. Soon there will be nothing left, but
the HCE communiques to milk from... A junta surviving on communiques is
the ultimate normal way to keep in touch with the rejecting masses.
 
"Inna ghadan linaaDhirihi qareeb" , "...wa saya'alamu Ladhiina Dhalamuu
ayya munqalabin yanqalibuun".
From: bhimani@usc.edu (Minaz Bhimani)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Islamic Cultural Program
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:08:56 GMT
Reply-To: bhimani@usc.edu (Minaz Bhimani)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
To: soc-religion-islam@uunet.UU.NET
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


Hi,

We are having a small banquet and I have to present
an item that will depict some aspect of the Islamic
culture/society in the world. 

I need some ideas for this - real soon!!

The only thing that could come to my mind
was having an exhibition of Muslim weddings
in differrent parts of the world like among
Russian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, Afghani's,
etc.

But thats all that i can think of, so if any
of u guys have any ideas, please let me know.
I would like to stage an item that'll involve
at least 8-10 people form the group that i am
involved with.

So please help me!

Send mail directly to 
bhimani@aludra.usc.edu

Thanks!
From: cavus@cae.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: 'ICAZ-I QUR'AN.  PART 8.
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:38:53 GMT
Reply-To: cavus@cae.wisc.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Esselamu Aleykum.

ON THE INTERPRETATION  OF  THE  QUR'AN.  PART  8.

This TWENTY  NINTH  LETTER  consists of nine parts.  This is the
first part containing nine remarks.

In the Name of Allah the Merciful the Compassionate  "The seven
Heavens and the Earth, as well as whoever is in them, glorify
Him." [Al Qur'an 17:44]

Eighth Remark:  We should first mention a truthful rule about this matter. 
There are two rights (huquq): personal rights and general rights.  The latter
is called 'Allah's huquq' (Huququllah).  Hence, some of the matters of the
Sharia are related to individuals, and some of them concerns the whole Muslim
Umma, and thus are called the Islamic signs (shiar).  Since these Shiar have
connection with all the Muslims, all the past and future Muslim Umma has a
share in them.  Therefore, without the consent of the whole past and future
Umma, changing them would be a blatant assault to those general rights.  The
smallest matter of Shiar, even if it is at the degree of sunnah (i.e., not 
farz), is extremely important.  As they are all directly related to the Islamic
world, they are the chains which link the majority of Muslims since the time of
Prophet (Asr-i Saadet) till the end of the world.  Those who help to break,
destroy, and distort that lightful chain must consider that they are making a
very bad mistake.  If they have a least amount of consciousness, they should
tremble before they do anything!

will continue in$aallah

C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C* 
These translations are from the Risale-i Nur Collection of Bediuzzaman Siad
Nursi (RA) which consists of a total of 134 books in Turkish and few in Arabic.
Tranlators are a group of  students at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and
Case Western Reserve  University-Cleveland.  All correspondence should be
directed to the e-mail address appering in this posting.  We are posting these
translations part by part but if anyone is interested we can send the whole
topic to personal e-mail addresses.  These topics have also appeared in the
weekly letter "Droplet  -  From The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an"
published and distributed in the Islamic Centers of Madison-WI and Cleveland-OH
after every Friday-Prayer.  Thank you.  The Talabat-un Noor.
C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    C*    

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Erasmus Story [was 1 John 5: 6-8]
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:54:22 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA

Just a further note:

In reply to Scott Aaron's (aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu) query about the
Johannean Comma, OFM writes

:  ...  When Erasmus was
:preparing a critical Greek text in 1516 he omitted the addition, since
:it wasn't in any Greek texts available to him, even the relatively
:late ones he had available.  This caused a stink.  People were used to
:it from the Latin, and were upset that he "removed" it.  He rashly
:promised to add it if even one Greek manuscript could be found that
:had it.  One was produced by a Franciscan at Oxford.  There is great
:suspicion that it was produced for the purpose.  (He apparently had
:not required that the manuscript must be provably ancient.)  In the
:1522 edition and later, his Greek included this verse.

This story invariably comes up whenever this this subject is discussed.
However, it seems that it may not be true.

On pg 291 (n2) of the (new) 3rd edition of _The Text of the New Testament_
Bruce Metzger writes:

    What is said on p. 101 above about Erasmus' promise to include the
    _Comma Johanneum_ if one Greek manuscript were found that contained it,
    and his subsequent suspicion that MS. 61 was written expressly to force
    him to do so, needs to be corrected in the light of hte research of H.J.
    de Jonge, a specialist in Erasmian studies who finds no explict evidence
    that supports this frequently made assertion; see his "Erasmus and the
    _Comma Johanneum_", _Ephemerides Theologicae Lovanienses, lvi (1980),
    pp 381-9.

Now this is not to argue that the Comma has any place in the Greek
manuscript tradition or that the manuscript was not made to order for this
purpose; only that this particular detail in its history may have acquired a
bit of extraneous folklore.

Too bad; it was a neat story.    ;)

N
From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Deacon Duties
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:07:04 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

J.Kelly's commentary on the pastoral epistles (Black's New Testament 
Commenatries series) notes that the pastoral epistles were written 
against the backdrop of large Jewish contingents within the churches
(naturally enough).

We can thus learn something of something of church structure by looking 
at existing structures within Jewish synagogues.

Each synagouge had a board of elders. Each board of elders had two 
levels (The names of which escape me, but I can look them up for anyone 
suitably interested). There was an upper level consisting of the elders 
who had a spiritual oversight of the synagogue. These were the decision 
makers. Overseers if you like.

The lower level consisted of those Jews honoured with a place on the 
board of eldership but who were not so much a part of the decision 
makeing process but rather they were those who tended to carry out the 
practical outworking of those decisions.

If we assume this is the model for overseers and deacons we see that 
many churches have a broadly similar pattern in their elders and 
deacons. The difference is that the New Testament church would have 
called deacons "elders" too.

If that explanation is confusing of unclear then please look at Kelly's 
excellent commentary.

All the best,
  Stephen.
-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
From: azamora@hexagon.cs.indiana.edu (Tony Zamora)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: And what *is* a Christian?
Date: 16 Aug 92 05:57:17 GMT
Reply-To: azamora@cs.indiana.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

In article <Aug.14.05.12.20.1992.607@athos.rutgers.edu> smayo@wang.com (Scott  
Mayo) writes:
> What is a Christian? What does the term mean? I think I have a pretty good
> idea, but in discussions with non-Christians it has become apparent
> that the definition I thought was universal and accepted by everyone
> is now in fact open to question, at least by these non-Christians.

> I have always believed that a Christian is a person who has taken Jesus as
> his personal saviour. 


The problem with characterizing Christians this way is that, especially among  
non-Christians, it is hard to tell what different people mean by "accepting  
Jesus as personal saviour."  Another way I've heard this this question phrased  
is "What must you believe to be a Christian?".  I think the Nicene Creed and  
Apostle's Creed do a good job of summing up the fundamental beliefs of  
Christianity.  The pastor of a friend of mine has said, "When someone asks you  
what Christians believe, you should recite the Apostle's Creed."

Tony
From: jlalou@elaine.ee.und.ac.za (JEAN-MARC LALOUETTE : THIRD)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Fellow Christian wants mail
Date: 16 Aug 92 04:05:15 GMT
Organization: Electronic Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, South Africa

Greetings in the Lords name,

Here at Durban Varsity We are praying and believing for Great things, We 
have some opposition so anyone out there EMAIL me and I can imform you what 
to pray for if you're mission orientated

------> JLALOU@ELAINE.EE.UND.AC.ZA <---------
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Knuth's book
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:28:21 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

What's the name if Donald Knuth's book (I missed it)?
Does anyone know of any bookstores in the Dallas/Ft. Worth
area that carry it?

Keith
drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu
From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke Statement - Part 1
Date: 16 Aug 92 05:33:28 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <Jul.31.01.59.46.1992.25751@dartagnan.rutgers.edu> mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:
>pearsodc@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (D) writes:
>>Brian Devilbiss writes in rec.music.christian
>
>Leaders of the covens to
>which Pryor claimed to belong stated publicly that he had never been a
>member or initiated by them.

I believe Bob Larson was not involved in the conversion of Eric Pryor.
I believe it was Larry Lea ministries and Dick Burnell (spelling?).

>The Bay Area pagan community will no longer respond to Larson's attempts
>to set up Christian/pagan dialogs, because it feels he uses them only to
>promote hatred of pagans and to push his own brand of Christianity.

Then, the bay area pagan community does not understand Bob Larson.


-Arnold Nordeng   nordenga@tc.fluke.COM
son of God only by His saving grace
From: azamora@hexagon.cs.indiana.edu (Tony Zamora)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Seeking recommendations for books about history of Christianity
Date: 16 Aug 92 05:56:48 GMT
Reply-To: azamora@cs.indiana.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

I would like to read some books on the history of Christianity and the  
Christian church.  Any recommendations you could give me would be appreciated.   
You can email your recommendations to me, and I will post a summary.

Thanks,

Tony
From: whheydt@pbhya.pacbell.com (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Please Prove it to me!
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:17:19 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <Aug.18.23.55.14.1992.13263@athos.rutgers.edu>, dlhpfm!dlh@ncoast.org (daniel lance herrick) writes:
> From: studman@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel Tseng)
> > How do I and you know th
> > it's not all made up by some lunatic way back when.
> 
> God tells us plainly in Rom. 1 why people have problems with the
> Christian faith: they are rebels against his law order. 

This answer is a *circular*argument*.  It does *not*, in fact, answer
the question that was asked.  What is needed to answer the question is
data from *outside* Christian documents.

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: k053730@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Philip G. Sells)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: God in the movies
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:35:11 GMT
Organization: itinerant

Greetings,

Having just watched _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ again, I wondered about
common depictions of God in films, both popular and not so popular.
Could anyone provide some references to any analytical work that's been
done about this?  Or perhaps we could begin a discussion here.
-- 
Philip Sells			Is anything too hard for the LORD?
k053730@hobbes.kzoo.edu			--Genesis 18:14
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Deacon Duties (was: Opinions Qualifications for Deacon)
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:06:57 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <Aug.16.01.40.59.1992.1198@athos.rutgers.edu> robarr@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr) writes:
>The Bible at least gives an idea of the qualifications for being a
>deacon but what does the Bible tell us about the purpose
>(responsabilities, duties, authority, etc.) of a deacon?  I have found 
>nothing in the Bible indicating the duties of a deacon.  Certainly the role
>of a deacon differs greatly from denomination to denomination.

Many commentaries note that the Greek word (diakonos) that is
transliterated deacon is the same word that is elsewhere translated
"minister' and other places "servant".  My feeling is that, though
it *is* a "position", it is less a "position" than an honor to someone
who is probably already being a servant.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest
mark.wuest@att.com
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail Welcome!)