HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Plants rights!
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:25:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct5.182548.22322
Organization: insert anything here


	While I can't support torturing animals, even those bred for
slaughter, I have to wonder sometimes about some so-called
aminal rights acitivists.o

	First off, I have never met anyone who wasn't a species-ist.
Once you get past people into cute furry animals, to not-as-cute
and not-as-furry animals, etc. the zeal for their protection diminishes.
I have yet to see one of these people refuse to drive anywhere for fear
that in their travels they'll run into an insect, due the to pain
it must feel coming to grips with it's loss of three-dimensions,[*]
let alone the possibility they'll cause a skunk, etc. to meet with an 
untimely passing on.

	Some people, will eat lobster not caring about it being 
places alive into boiling water...

	And what about plants?  Just because they are evolutionally-
challenged does that commit them to certain fate?   They are 
raised solely to be chopped down in their prime, fed chemicals,
deprived of symbiotic long-lasting relationships with grubs, slugs,
etc. to find a way into someone's salad.  Or clothes!  Why every
time I see someone wearing 100% ctton I want to cover them with red paint!


	Even animals that are raised more humanely do get killed.
And there are inherent dangers to this: look at free-range chicken!
I mean there's always the potential for a stampede, wonton distruction.

	Stop the killing - enjoy better life thru synthetics and
chemicals!   Polyester!  Saccharin!  Food Coloring!

BBC, 101% frviolous

ObJoke: What'sd the last thing that goes thru a bug's mind when it hits
	your whindsheield?

It's asshole


(OK you can spank me now... :-)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:40756 talk.politics.misc:48129 ca.politics:8228 ba.politics:5673
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: nambla bashing (was, harrassing 'phone calls)
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:01:18 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <Bv59B6.x4@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason) writes:
>I have a very good friend who is very active in NAMBLA.

>He is a good man.  He is kind, and takes good care of the people in his life.
>I trust him.  I know he would not hurt or rape children.

Would you let your 14 year old son sleep over at his house without
your being there?  Would you feel comfortable if he was your son's
Scoutmaster? 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Co-ed?
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:40:21 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

emcmanus@kaa.gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>	My favorite was during his re-telling of the "Cindy stories"
>>(co-ed who develops a crush on Clay then writes an anti-gay position
>>paper for class...).

>What is a "co-ed"?  Does it mean a student who is female?  If so, why
>is there a special word, and why do you use it?

	Ostensibly it's an undergrad - but in all honesty I can't think of 
any time I've heard it used that it didn't refer to specifcally a womon
student.  I suppose it harks back to the days when mixed campuses were
sort of new, and in that respect you're right - the term has outlived it's
use.  It was the first word that mjumped into my head.  I apologize
for any harm done.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hopsonth@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Thomas H. Hopson)
Subject: Re: Terre Haute (Was Re: Faggots)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
	<1992Sep27.033643.13046@cs.rose-hulman.edu>
	<1992Sep28.081408.2153@resonex.com>
	<HOPSONTH.92Sep30093304@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>
	<jct.717868149@ecstasy> <1acr09INNr96@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:05:22 GMT

In article <1acr09INNr96@fido.asd.sgi.com> kenj@kambo.wpd.sgi.com (Ken ``Blackfur'' Jones) writes:

>hopsonth@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Thomas H. Hopson) writes:

>>As it turns out, Mike [Bryan] was me (in a work sense) about 8 years ago,
>>so I know what he's talking about.  I don't intend to spend an extra four
>>years here, though.  That would be just too much to take.

>So that means in 8 years you'll be another Mike Bryan?  I'm sorry, but
>that's just too much to take.

I'm afraid I never met Mike, except through email, so I'm not sure if
this is supposed to be a compliment or not...?  :-) to Mike.

>jct@mips.com (Chris Thomas) responds:

>>Seriously, though, the tradition of gay system managers at Rose dates
>>back (not continuously, of course) at least as far as class of 1981,
>>even if I didn't know it at the time.

>Ah.  This explains why I'm bisexual!  I went to Rose, but didn't
>graduate and was never a system manager. :-)

Ah, yes, but what about the operators, then?  They're a lot more of
them than managers, so if we are to have a viable system here, we have
to classify them somehow....

							- Tom
--
Thomas H. Hopson              Internet: (work) mgrthh@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu
VMS Manager / CS geek                   (play) hopsonth@cs.rose-hulman.edu
Rose-Hulman Institute                   (NeXT) mgrthh@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
   of Technology              BITNET:          mgrthh@rhit
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (mild spoilers)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:22:41 GMT

If you're like me and don't even want to know a *hint* about a movie
before you see it, hit "q" if you haven't seen Fried Green Tomatoes.

In article <2ACA1FA0.11000@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:

>Hm.  I saw the movie, and thought they were lesbian.  (When Idgie
>touches Ruth's face, for example.)  I read the book and thought the
>same.  It's more subtle in the movie, I'll give you that.

It is.  I suggest to anyone who remains unconvinced, though, to watch
the movie again and pay particular attention to the scene in the Cafe
when Idgie tells Ruth that she doesn't "have to worry about Frank
Burns anymore."  That clinched it for me.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:56:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <cdjz7rc@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth24.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:
>
>>>>Speak for yourself, Ron. Paglia must be the most misunderstood person
>>>>on Earth today.
>>>MISUNDERSTOOD? Please read Mim Udovitch's review of her latest work in the
>>>VILLAGE VOICE this week. As well as another review in NEWSWEEK last week.
>>>I think people understand Camille quite well.
>
>>Which is the same as reading her books on your own, eh Ron?
>It's about as close as I want to get to La Camille when there are SLIGHTLY more
>important things to do, like working to get Clinton-Gore-Abrams elected.
>

Well, if you haven't read her, you'll have to forgive some of us for not taking
you seriously on the subject. 

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Two Bozos
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:39:18 GMT

In article <12640@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>In article <1992Sep29.195421.4250@microsoft.com>, bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>> At the moment, I am actually quite busy with Ronzone and Cramer, who 
>> are both treating me as their worst nightmare:  a gay with the arguments 
>> to embarass and defeat them.  They are infinitely more fun than anderson,
>
>Don't kid yourself.  Even the jerks that dominate soc.motss do a 
>better job than you do, because they aren't trying to defend
>private property rights while denying those of others.

Ordinarily I don't respond to the Claymer, but there is
something very ... precious ... about this moment.

What have we here?  Short answer: two bozos.  More
descriptively: one very old and worn-out bozo, and one
recent and still fairly vibrant bozo.  The former bozo has
long been unwelcome in soc.motss, while the latter has only
been unwelcome there in the last month or two.  Many here
have taken up the practice of not responding to either bozo,
or following up to their drivel with long, highly
entertaining passages from deliciously non sequiturial
sources.  Two very similar bozos, indeed.

The moment, however, is magical.  Neither bozo is
particularly interesting by itself, but together they create
a beautiful symbiosis.  Look at them!  Read those posts
again!  They simply can't insult one another fast *enough*!
They're literally falling all over themselves in an attempt
to one-up the other.  It's really a remarkable thing to
behold.

(In particular, note the odd round-robin effect.  Sargon,
insulted by "the soc.motss crowd" (obviously a clever code
phrase for the Secret Motss Cabal: note the acrostic), turns
to insult the Claymer.  The Claymer, in turn, in order to
properly insult Sargon, has little choice but to *praise*
"the soc.motss crowd."  Glorious!  It feels like a
beautifully executed endgame.)

Actually, it reminds me of the biology lab sessions that
Elisa had in her ethology class.  Her task was to study the
mating habits of white mice in estrus, and how male mice
would battle one another for the vagina of a nearby female
mice.  For hours on end, she would enrapturedly watch
videotapes of the War Of The Mice and take endless,
incoherent notes.

Soc.motss is our cage, and Sargon and Claymer our mice.
Thank you, Arne, Arnold, JNS, and any others who have
contributed to the literary forensics here.  This is better
than the Dating Game.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:55:05 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <1992Oct2.184745.27510@gallant.apple.com>,
mcmelmon@taligent.com (Matthew C. Melmon) writes:

> Fuck the Liberal Wannabe Intellectuals and the Elite.  I *like* the
> 'stupid' masses (but then again, being one of them...)
> 
> Mantras:
> 
>   To live is to vogue and to vogue is to live
>   Armani is God and Madonna is his Prophet
>   American Express, don't leave home without it (but only if it's gold)

No.  No no no, Matthew, no.

This is all terribly eighties and dull.  These days
materialism and greed and Michael Douglas clones and
second-hand libertarianism and anti-intellectualism are
OUT. 

IN is caring, caring for the environment, for society and
for the less fortunate.  We *respect* people of colour,
unless they're, er, *too* black, and the differently-abled,
so long as they can talk and don't *drool*, and HIV+ people
who don't have *chips* on their shoulders (they're so
*brave*, it's quite humbling really)... 

So of course we tell the pollsters we're going to vote for
Clinton, although in the end we'll all go for Bush (with
*deep* misgivings, naturally).  Of course we really *want*
the government to take a hand in working for change, and
it's so *uncomfortable* meeting all these homeless people
and *something* should be done about infant mortality.  But
we *really* *can't* *pay* *another* *cent* in taxes, it's
not that we don't *want* to, we simply *can't*. 

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: same sex marriages
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:40:38 GMT

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>   GLB #1: we should press the state to legalize gay marriages.
>>   GLB #2: why rock the boat when we've got this swell Domestic
>>	   Parnership (TM) racket going?  It's almost as good as
>>	   being married, you can walk away from it any time you
>>	   want, and it has 50% fewer calories.  Now why don't
>>	   you just relax and watch the blinking lights.
>>   GLB #1: %$#&*!!

>I don't know anyone who thinks there's any equivalence between
>Domestic Partnership and Same-Sex Marriage.

I agree that the two are not equivalent.  I don't agree about the
"I don't know anyone" part.

It's an old problem.  If you lived in a society that denied you
the vote, would you see half a vote as an acceptable compromise?
Do the benefits of gaining some degree of suffrage outweigh the
loss of momentum the movement will experience as a result of
having settled for a cheap substitute?

>...[DP] has nothing to do with societal recognition
>of same-sex relationships, or making public expression of a
>couple's commitment, or even making a legally-binding contract.

If they have nothing to do with societal recognition of motss
relationships, then DPs aren't a stepping stone to anything.
You've undercut your own argument that DPs would eventually
lead to the kind of social climate that would make motss marriage
an acceptable thing.

>L/G rights have been, and will be won incrementally, one step
>at a time.  We have to pick our battles, and conserve our
>energies.  Activists burn out all the time.

(tell me) Normally we would find ourselves in complete agreement
on the tactics of compromise and incremental gain.  But not on this
particular issue.  I don't see DPs as incremental to anything, I
think they're a blind alley leading nowhere.

>                                             Why give up one
>clearly achievable and valuable short-term gain to spend a
>generation in a bitter fight we might not win, for a prize not
>all of us even want?                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
QED.  These people will fade away once they've settled for the
crusts society throws to them, which is exactly why I refuse 
to settle for DP.

-- 
Brent Capps           | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com | Know what to kiss, and when
bcapps@atlastele.com  |
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Housing Adventures
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:17:37 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) wrote
about the recent purchase and renovation of his new home:

Congratulations.  Many good years in your new home, and let me offer
you an e-cricket to be placed upon your hearth.

(Rumor has it a couple more motssers have recently moved into their new
homes also, and a congratulations to them as well).

Let me stress, just being cautious, to make sure you have insurance,
and that that insurance is kept up to date.  A policy bought when the
house was bought tends not to cover full replacement value a few years
down the line.  The "It will never happen to me" syndrome has caused
much heartache here in the last month.

Our tree has been righted, although now it is a 25 foot tall stick with
a few leaves on top.  We have finally gotten in touch with a (gay)
contractor who will come to fix our fence on Thursday, and the property
will be good as before.  Still no insurance adjustor.

Most of the offices where I work are leaking, but we can (and will have
to) live with that.

I'm very lucky.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:28:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.165417.17898@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>Are anchovies out?  There's this great Italian place in Noe Valley
>>which makes a killer garlic, olive oil, anchovy, and toasted bread
>>crumb (yes) pasta sauce.  Can anyone help me with its name?  You can
>>get it w/o anchovies too.
>
>Little Italy has some very garlicky dishes, but I don't recall ever seeing
>anything with anchovy/bread pesto sauce.  They do have a very good fried
>garlic and olive oil pasta dish, which comes with or without anchovies, and
>garlic bread with huge amounts of garlic (almost enough, in fact).

Ah, that's the place.  I said "bread" because there's something slightly
crunchy in that sauce, and it's not anchovy bones or fried garlic.
I couldn't figure out what it was.

How about a date there next time I'm out?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Boy Watcher is a hit
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:01:42 GMT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

I see in the biweekly issue #019 of _Planet Homo_ (LA thing, small and
to the point) that Music Plus is getting applause for selecting as
their Pick Of The Week a dance single called "(I'm a) Boy Watcher" by
a group that calls themselves Brothers About Living, Loving, &
Sensuality ("BALLS").

'Fraid I haven't heard this one, or at least, never recognized it by
name if it was played at some club I went to.  Hafta check it out.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor <> Long Beach, California
[] mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us <or> mikebat@qdeck.com
From: berninge@cs.purdue.EDU (James Berninger)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Damon Wayons -- what's the deal?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:35:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article <1992Sep29.005645.23810@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>@ector.cs.purdue.edu> berninge@cs.purdue.EDU (James Berninger) writes:
>>My boyfriend/SO/fiance/whatever and I were flipping channels the
>>other night (Saturday?) and happened to find something called "HBO
>>Comedy Showcase" or something like that, I think.  We only watched
>>about 30 seconds or so of it, because the only person we saw was
>>Damon Wayons -- one of the guys from "In Living Color: The TV
>>series".  The only "joke" we saw went something like this:
>>	"I used to beat up gays.  We all did.  It was easy, 'cause
>>	they don't fight back." [Followed by somewhat effeminate
>>	fleeing]
>
>>I realize that for some time, we have been trying to make heads or
>>tails of the "Men on..." skits -- was it light-hearted fun, or
>>downright degrading.  I wasn't too thrilled with what we saw that
>>night, but the TV was quickly turned off before I could see any more
>>(I was hoping to).
>
>>Did anyone else see this?  What's going on?  (For the record, I
>>didn't even get to hear what the audience's reaction was.)
>
>	You're surprised?
Did I say I was surprised?  I'm surprised someone let him do that
act for broadcast TV.  I'm not surprised he did the act in the first
place.  I'm somewhat relieved to finally have a better understanding
of what the true intent of the "Men On..." skits really is, but that
intent is discomforting, to say the least.

Personally, I found the "Men On..." skits rather humorous.  Let's
face it, they were campy.  And judging from a good number of the
articles in this group, quite a few of us like camp.

I have no question that GLAAD or NGLTF should be notified/take
action against the show(s).  Much of Mr. Donahue's article supports
this point, and I doubt anyone in this group with half a brain would
disagree.

Anyone else care to provide more information?

Jim Berninger                   ______ "This is no 'Whoops!'  This is
berninge@cs.purdue.edu          \    /  an 'Aaaaaaaauuuuuggggghhhh!'"
B0.2 f(~) w- c- g k? s- e r- p   \  /   - Harvey ("Arnold") Fierstein
Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire \/      "Torch Song Trilogy"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@kaa.gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Delittering
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:28:11 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Cross-posting is the main technique Cramer uses to hook
>people in soc.motss, usually involving the high-noise talk*
>and *politics* groups.  These things very quickly cascade,
>and there's a flood of complete ninnies on hand in short
>order.
>
>The bottom line is: don't do it.

I have two purely technical comments to make on crossposting.  First
of all, if you do feel that a crossposting is appropriate but that
flames from readers of the other group or groups might ensue, be sure
to include a "Followup-To:" header line that directs followups to your
article out of soc.motss.

Secondly, I have mentioned before here that I have a private copy of
(t)rn's Pnews script, which appends "CROSSPOSTED!" to the initial text
of any article I post, if the Newsgroups line contains more than one
group.  This saves accidentally furthering an unwelcome crossposting
from another group.  I'm including the patch here, though whether it
will work or not depends on your version of Pnews, and mine.

,
Eamonn Patrick McManus
must `k' non-american camp

[Apply with "patch -l", since tabs have probably been expanded]
*** Pnews       Tue Dec 10 14:54:31 1991
--- /tmp/Pnews  Tue May 19 18:13:43 1992
***************
*** 310,329 ****
--- 310,335 ----
        $echo "" >> $tmpart
        state=edit
        ;;
      *)
        $cat $file >>$tmpart
        state=ask
        ;;
      esac
  done

+ set X $hdr_newsgroups
+ shift
+ if $test $# -gt 1 ; then
+     $echo "CROSSPOSTED!" >> $tmpart
+ fi
+
  $echo ""

  while true ; do
      case $state in
      edit)
        case $expertise in
        beginner)
            $cat </dev/null >$dotdir/.pnewsexpert
            $cat <<'EOMessage'
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Madonna bashing
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 19:55:16 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
      <1992Sep25.150244.17638@osf.org> <1992Sep25.163846.605@macc.wisc.edu>
      <1992Sep25.220639.27347@osf.org> <66623@cup.portal.com>  
  <thaaang.717650371@cwis> <thaaang.717692904@cwis>

John Dorrance writes:
>But George, we didn't have sex. I don't understand.

I do.  ;-)  In fact, it seems rather *obvious* to me.
 
()   *********    *****    **
()  *************************.*
() ****** *********** ** *******o
() ******* ********* **** ****`-
() ******* ********* *****
()  ****** ********** ****
() ## *****  ***** ##  ****
() ### *****      ###   ****
() #,,, ***,,,    ##,,,  **,,,
() 
()    Cogito Ursus Sum!
()      -- Dave Lankford, "Bearhunter"
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: billy@briarpatch.uucp (Billy Green)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: A thought...
Date:      26 Sep 92 00:25:41 PDT
Organization: Briarpatch Associates, San Francisco, CA

This Tailhook stuff brings up a very serious issue.

I think it's proof positive that all heterosexuals are unfit
for service.


Billy Green
San Francisco, CA