HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agillum@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Aaron C Gillum)
Subject: Re: PMI 3 For Sale
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:53:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.045107.3126@Cadence.COM> jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Pate
l) writes:
>
>        PMI 3 (VM 68) Semi Auto; "Boss" model -- For Sale
++Conservative estimate... $270

>        with
>
>        - 14" Smart Parts Barrel (also have the original barrel)
++$90 sounds about right.

>        - Connection assembly for rear mounting the gas chamber.
++Not sure about this one, lets say $45.

>        - 7 oz. SIPHON Tank (shoots upto 100 shots) with detachable
>          shoulder rest; (with this, the gun can be configured in
>          two ways -- assault or sniper mode!).
++Give you the benefit of the doubt. $60

>        - 100+ capacity View loader.
++ $12-$15
>        - Original 50+ shot loader.
>        - Two 100 round tubes along with holder (canvas casing)
>          and a belt.
++ $25 if you shop around.
>        - Velocity adjustment tool included. Comes with extra
>          wahsers and springs.
++ Say, $10??                                   !!!!!!!
>        Used only once (one day only)!  Paid ~$600 for all the items
                                              !!!!!!!
I'm missing about $100 dollars here. I think I could personally buy that set up
and ship it too you for under $600, I can't imagine a company charging you that
much.

If I'm wrong, I'm just ignorant. don't mean to be hostile.

Aaron Gillum
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Patel)
Subject: PMI 3 For Sale
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:51:07 GMT


        PMI 3 (VM 68) Semi Auto; "Boss" model -- For Sale

        with

        - 14" Smart Parts Barrel (also have the original barrel)
        - Connection assembly for rear mounting the gas chamber.
        - 7 oz. SIPHON Tank (shoots upto 100 shots) with detachable
          shoulder rest; (with this, the gun can be configured in 
          two ways -- assault or sniper mode!).
        - 100+ capacity View loader.
        - Original 50+ shot loader.
        - Two 100 round tubes along with holder (canvas casing) 
          and a belt.
        - Velocity adjustment tool included. Comes with extra 
          wahsers and springs.

        Used only once (one day only)!  Paid ~$600 for all the items
        above.  Everything in its original box (got it in July). An 
        excellent Gun; ask anyone who has used it.  Must sell (it is
        just sitting around).  All yours for $400.  Price is negotiable.
        Serious inq. only.  Email or PH. (508) 934-0289.


        
Xref: sparky alt.sport.paintball:1144 rec.sport.paintball:1258
From: Matthew Hall <mjhall@socs.uts.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball,rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Paintball in Australia
Date: 8 Oct 1992 06:11:05 GMT
Organization: UTS Microcomputer Shop
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: microshop-03.ccsd.uts.edu.au
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6FA072C3D012404@microshop-03.ccsd.uts.edu.au>
X-XXDate: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:41:32 GMT

Mitch Davis, 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au writes:
>Does anyone know how I can get into Paintball in Australia?  I'd guess
>that Australia has _something_, since New Zealand has, but these two
>newsgroups have been particularly barren of Australian originated
>articles.

Mitch,

  I have run a (very) amateur paintball team in Sydney (though we've
been dormant for 2 months now).  To answer your question, paintball
seems to have started in Queensland in the late eighties, and is still
the strongest state in number of fields etc....

  There are about half a dozen fields in Sydney, but I don't know of
any in Victoria -- my only suggestion at the moment is to find
a magazine called something like 'Action Magazine' -- I've found
it dumped at Uni every now and again (maybe in the Sports center??)
It recently went national and lists stuff like skydiving, blading
and paintballing and where to find them....
(if the mag hasn't gone bankrupt, I haven't seen it for a while now).

  To give you an idea of the prices on fields in Sydney  :

$20 day fee  (field hire, maybe camo, maybe lunch, all the air you need)
$15 gun hire (always pump actions -- no exceptions found yet)
$80 paint    (that's $0.20 PER ROUND!! and no-one allows walk-on paint :(
-----------------------------------------------------------------
$115 for one day of paintball! (is this a typical cost in the US??)

  We've found that $120-$140 is average for a full day of paintball at most
of the places in Sydney, once you buy drinks or lunch or whatever.

  Hope this helps somewhat, tell us if you find any fields in Vic!!

--
ClayPidgeonZ Team Captain----Matthew Hall----Sbugsfoote Tripping SF Fellow
"  Any problem may be solved with | mjhall@socs.uts.edu.au - "Hi, I'm Eddie"
 the aid of eleven dimensions and |     University of Technology, Sydney
the healing power of rock-n-roll" |   Computer Science undergrd -- *still*
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball,rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Paintball in Australia
Date: 8 Oct 1992 08:28:44 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Matthew Hall <mjhall@socs.uts.edu.au> writes:

>$20 day fee  (field hire, maybe camo, maybe lunch, all the air you need)
>$15 gun hire (always pump actions -- no exceptions found yet)
>$80 paint    (that's $0.20 PER ROUND!! and no-one allows walk-on paint :(
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>$115 for one day of paintball! (is this a typical cost in the US??)

Average cost in my neck of the woods is $20 which includes field fee, gun rental, and 100 rnds. Sounds like operating costs are pretty high in hte land of Oz...are there regulations that restrict the game severly in Australia?


-- 
Jim Foster                [                                                   ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [    "We need bigger guns! Bigger f***ing guns!"    ]
Kansas State University   [                                                   ]

From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:37:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens

Oops! My apologies for posting my previous "Please Help" survey to this
group. It was an honest mistake and won't happen again.

Kingsley
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Youth Protection
Date: 13 Oct 1992 00:44:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>When a suicidal person complains that "nobody cares about me" I
>don't believe that the complaint is that "nobody provides appropriate physical
>or emotional therapeutic treatments for me;"  I think the complaint is that
>"Nobody LOVES me."  When a therapist responds by saying, "That's not true; *I*
>care about you," I can totally understand the patient's miserable response of,
>"That's not what I mean." 

I can't imagine that any therapist would respond that way.  I agree that it
would be really incompetent therapy.  More likely would be "That must make you
feel sad" or perhaps "How does that make you feel?" or even "Please go on,"
depending on what was said before.

But perhaps I've lost the thread of the argument here.  This started because
someone complained about an over-enthusiastic intervention by child protection
agencies into a specific case.  People then started talking about intervention
in general, and whether it's a good idea always, often, sometimes, or never.
It was in that context that you said, basically, "therapy isn't as good as
a loving family."  True, but, I think, in this context, that's like saying
"medical care isn't as good as not having cancer to begin with."  Very true,
but not helpful to someone who has cancer -- or, analogously, to someone who
*does* need intervention by child care workers.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: QUIET?...advice with kids...
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:15:03 GMT

In a recent alt.parents-teens article, Karl Fengler wrote:

>It goes like this, we've been dating for ~3 month. The kids were in Calif.
>when we met. Let me start with this, basically I feel they're OK kids.

I want to caution you. You've only been dating this woman for 3 months.
If you develop a relationship with her kids and then the two of you
stop dating, are you prepared to continue to be a presence in their
lives? If not, then keep your relationship with the kids to a friendly
adult sort of relationship, and don't try for anything deeper.

The down side of this is that if you *don't* try for anything deeper,
then the children will likely continue to regard you with some amount
of jealousy. On the other hand, it is cruel to get seriously involved
in a child's life and then disappear because your relationship with their
mother didn't pan out.

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com (if you must)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:38:51 GMT


In article <1bk2ujINNdop@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU 
(Brian Harvey) writes:
 
>Indeed, this is a terrifying risk.  But there is an argument for accepting
>the risk:  They have to learn some time.  It's much like the two sides of
>the argument about alcohol.  Should we keep kids dry until they're 21 and
>then suddenly turn them loose?  Or should we give them limited experience
>with alcohol from a much earlier age, gradually preparing them for the
time
>when they have to make decisions on their own?
 
In terms of learning to drive, it is probably better for kids to learn
in a formal driver education program than from a parent. Insurance
companies generally offer a significant reduction in auto insurance
premiums for new drivers who have completed a driver training program.
Presumably this is because insurance companies have found these people to
be less likely to be involved in accidents than those who have not
completed such a program. (I know that correlation and causality are two
different things, but insurance premiums for new drivers are sufficiently
high that the premium savings may pay for the driver training program.)
 
It's difficult for me to address the question of teaching kids how to deal
with alcohol, except to observe that early adolescent drinking is a lot
more concerned with getting drunk than with how nice the beer tastes.
 

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: dagoura@athena.mit.edu (Vanessa Layne)
Subject: Re: Youth Protection
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:53:57 GMT

In <1992Sep30.214208.19803@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> lynda@mozart.Physics.McGill.CA writes:

> [omitted]
 
> The report was filed because last year my daughter, who was twelve at the  
> time, during a school dance decided to take 27 aspirins crushed up in a  
> coca cola and was then rushed by ambulance to the children's hospital  
> where she spent three days in the Psychiatric Ward and had heavy duty  
> psychiatric evaluations. Of course, initially they treated it as a suicide

Well, was it?  It's just my impression from this that the idea that it
was a suicide attempt has just been brushed off.  That concerns me.  A number
of posters have said things along the lines of "it was only aspirin" as in

<1992Oct11.104606.26676@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com 
(aaron.l.hoffmeyer) 's post:

>The key here is "aspirin."  If the child really wanted to end it all,
>aspirin is not indicative of that. 

Just because a suicide attempt is inept, doesn't make the intent less serious.  
There seems to be this idea that a 12-year-old would automatically know that
O.D.ing on aspirin would not be fatal.  Indeed I knew a 16-year-old who made 
that particular mistake.  While it may not have been a "serious" suicide
attempt - or any kind of suicide attempt - dismissing the possibility because
"*we* knew it wouldn't succeed" is a terrible conclusion.  Better by far to
have the assurances of the girl, herself.

None of us from out here in net.land can possibly know any of the circumstances
surrounding this.  From just the facts you presented, even other possibilities
leap to mind: the fact it was in a coca cola suggested to me she thought
she was spiking the drink - was she trying to get a high?  Was it something
someone did to her as a prank, which she feels she has to take the blame for?
From here, we have no defining details.  But, I sincerely hope that you did
ask *her*, your daughter, what happened.  Did you ask *her* if she was
trying to kill herself?

For *my* mother, it was the last thing in the world that she wanted to 
confront - that she had a suicidally depressed daughter.  

Musings....

Vanessa Layne                                   dagoura@athena.mit.edu
"A man's life is dyed the color of his imagination." - Marcus Aurelius
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Teens & Jobs
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:08:18 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


Well I have very mixed feelings on this one.

con:  When teens get jobs their grades tend to suffer, they tend not to
get enough sleep, they miss out on lots of social things, the kinds of
jobs open to teens tend to be dead-end jobs with little or no experience
value.  Their priorities may get all screwed up - they take a job to
make enough money to support a car they don't really need, etc.

pro:  Teens may resent their only source of income being gifts from
their parents; they don't feel the money is really theirs unless they
have earned it themselves without parental help.  They need to feel
independent of their parents, or that they are growing to be independent
of their parents; and the ability to earn money outside the family
is part of that growing independence.  Others have no reservation about
asking, even badgering, their parents for money whenever they want it;
they need to learn how much sweat goes into earning that money.
Many children today grow up in a very artificial environment where they
get a very limited view of people doing "real" work; so they need the
experience of the real world.  If time at work replaces time at TV
watching it is probably a good thing.  Some need the experience of
applying for a job and being turned down, or of getting a job and being
fired.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!"
"No it aint!  But ya gotta know the territory!"
        Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Youth Protection
Date: 12 Oct 1992 14:45:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>Maybe so, but the "care" is that of a therapist-client sort of care, not the
>care of a loved family member or close friend.
> [...]
>Well, there's "abuse" and there's abuse.
>
>I'm sure this is going to be controversial, but (*my opinion*) I think that in
>every intimate relationship one is likely, sooner or later, to say or do
>something one really oughtn't have said or done. [...]

This is all true but disingenuous.  Let's apply the same argument to doctors:

	When you're sick it's all very well to see a doctor, but that's
	no substitute for the loving care of your family.  And besides,
	if you just have a cut on your finger you can put a bandaid on
	it yourself.  So, therefore, if you have cancer, why go to a doctor?
	Just ignore it and get on with life!

Or teachers:

	The best way to learn to read is to sit on your parent's knee
	while s/he reads to you.  [I do believe this, by the way.]
	And most of the stuff kids have to learn is pretty simple;
	a kid ought to be able to learn the times table without help.
	So, therefore, if you're having trouble reading, why go to
	school?  Just try harder and get on with life!

The sad reality is that, although many kids do have loving, nurturing
homes, many other do not.  They have abusive, dangerous, neglectful
homes.  To tell such a kid that a nurturing home is better than
professional intervention is adding insult to injury.

That's the extreme case.  Even more families are in a middle ground; they
are not abusive, but they're not perfect either.  Maybe dad's an alcoholic.
Maybe mom is a single mom taking on the entire burden of raising the kids
and earning a living, and just doesn't have the time or energy to give to
the kids as much as she'd like.  Maybe (as when I was a kid) everything is
great, two loving parents, so proud of their brilliant kid that the kid
ends up thinking he won't be loved unless he's perfect.

You slapped your kid, it was an isolated incident, and you both got
over it quickly.  That's great; congratulations.  But suppose instead
your daughter had, over the course of the following year, gotten more
and more withdrawn and angry, despite your best efforts to work things
out with her, and she was unable to articulate her feelings.  Would you
just keep telling yourself "get on with life," or would you allow
yourself and your daughter to get expert help?
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 16 Oct 1992 14:22:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>It's difficult for me to address the question of teaching kids how to deal
>with alcohol, except to observe that early adolescent drinking is a lot
>more concerned with getting drunk than with how nice the beer tastes.

This is exactly my point -- that's how kids respond to a social structure
that teaches that getting drunk is an exotic adult pleasure.  I believe
that adolescents react differently in a situation like that of France where
a glass of wine with dinner, from an early age, is taken as part of an
aesthetic experience.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,alt.kids-talk
From: villa@cod.nosc.mil (Felipe Villa Jr.)
Subject: Re: Info and Experiences needed on Child Abuse
Keywords: Experiences, thoughts, facts,... all kept anonymous
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:18:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.135806.6374@newstand.syr.edu> jcbarthe@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John C. Barthelmes) writes:
>From: jcbarthe@rodan.acs.syr.edu (John C. Barthelmes)
>Subject: Info and Experiences needed on Child Abuse
>Keywords: Experiences, thoughts, facts,... all kept anonymous
>Date: 5 Oct 92 17:58:06 GMT
>Hi...
>	Im doing research for a college paper and I need your
>help.  The topic of the paper is Child Abuse and how different
>people talk about it. (Its a writing class on rhetoric.)
>	What I need is input from you! What I could use is:
>*  Articles, news clippings, court rulings, factual stories, or
>      ANYTHING that talks about Child Abuse.
>*  References to other news groups that might be more helpful.
>*  Your opinions and thoughts about Child Abuse.
>*  Your experiences would be greately helpful. All names and sources
>   will be kept totally anonymous. 
>
>   What I need are your reactions, your thoughts, your feelings, 
>   your experiences, your stories, anything you might think would
>   help.  **Remember... this is about how different people talk
>   about this delicate topic.  This is about your children.
>   Immediate response by email, posting, or phone call (if local),
>   would be greatly appreciated.
>   All names and facts WILL be kept ANONYMOUS! All information that comes
>   from you will be mentioned as this newsgroup being the source.
>   I realize this is a strong and delicate topic. Please help
>   in any way you think you can.
>	Thanks in advance. Im waiting to hear from you!
>					John C. Barthelmes
>					jcbarthe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
>        (phone # for local calls only, I cant afford collect...)
>	       (315)443-6656           
>-- 
>|* John C. Barthelmes                | The meaning of life is       *|
>|* jcbarthe@rodan.acs.syr.edu        |  to be happy...              *|
>|* jcbarthe@syredu.bitnet            |  try not to hurt people...   *|
>|* barthelm@jane.cs.fredonia.edu     |  and hope you fall in love!  *|
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 15 Oct 1992 15:32:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>I am suprised that nobody has pointed out that teenagers are more likely
>to be involved in an automobile accident, partly because they're
>inexperienced drivers, and partly because they're teenagers and more
>likely to do dumb teenage things.
> [...]
> I recognize that extra-curricular activities are important for kids, and
>that they miss a lot if their only way home is a school bus that leaves a
>few minutes after the end of classes. But there are fairly compelling
>reasons not to allow teenagers the routine use of the family car.

Indeed, this is a terrifying risk.  But there is an argument for accepting
the risk:  They have to learn some time.  It's much like the two sides of
the argument about alcohol.  Should we keep kids dry until they're 21 and
then suddenly turn them loose?  Or should we give them limited experience
with alcohol from a much earlier age, gradually preparing them for the time
when they have to make decisions on their own?

Similarly, I've heard it said, although I don't have any statistics to
back this up, that the safest drivers are kids who grow up on farms and
start driving tractors as soon as their feet reach the pedals.  For them
it isn't such a novel thrill when they hit 16.

I grew up in Manhattan, so this was never an issue for me.  But if I
had a kid in a suburb, I think I would try to get the kid to chauffeur
me, rather than the other way around, as early as possible, so that
s/he'd have some experience driving with a sobering influence present.
(But I wouldn't actually teach my own kid to drive -- too nerve-wracking
for both parties.)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: Perrin@max.Acadiau.ca (Louise Perrin)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Followup-To: alt.parents-teens
Organization: RRCNS
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:57:37 GMT

In article <25540001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com>,
kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) wrote:
> 
> 
>               Please answer these 9 questions and return.
> 
Much stuff deleted!!!!

I'm getting a little tired of reading this questionnaire in  various
newsgroups!!!  Not to mention the numerous replies that end up being
re-posted.

Quilts are a way to give warm hugs to those you love when you can't be
there.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens