From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Humility ... was( Re: Xenix considered harm...)
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 01:41:23 GMT
Followup-To: comp.misc

In article <1992Sep03.153627.11410@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
>In <BtznH6.Ez@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:
>
>:Well, he said that Xenix was appropriate for customers who had no
>:networking or security needs.  Modems are a form of networking, and as
>:you mention, they work fine.  But putting a modem on a computer and
>:leaving security turned off is just about as much of a security risk
>:as putting the root password in /etc/issue.
>
>Xenix has the same security as UNIX had for years and it works
>just fine if the people on the system take reasonable precautions
>about passwords.  I've run Xenix for years on systems that are
>quite well connected to the world (camco talks to approximately
>50 other systems every day and runs Xenix 2.3.3).

Marc,  Remember this.  

1.  Security is only as good as the lock on the front door of the
building, and the viability/availability of the backup tape. 

2.  Locks are for honest people.  Someone who wants in bad enough will
get in even if you don't leave the door open.  For an accountant's
office a simple deadbolt is plenty.  At the bank you need a vault. 
Security is really a form of damage control.

3.  Many net guru's on other groups are administering large sites on
university campuses full of bright young people like you with too much
time on their hands, so this security issue is like paramount.  On the
otherhand most SCO folks are more concerned about other issues. 
Viability of the company providing the product (will the bugs get
fixed?).  Stability of the product (Does it crash every weekend or when
heavily loaded?).  Availability of hardware & software products for
vertical markets.  These people don't HACK unix.  They USE it and SELL
it.  They have no more desire to hack up GNU emacs to run on SCO than to
jump off the empire state building.  The fact that a net.source compiles
first shot on platform X is of no consequence.  However,  The fact that
application A (say point of sale with barcode readers for a video store)
is available DOES MATTER, along with say Real World, or Open Systems
accounting, or other Vertical Software.  THIS is why you buy SCO.  To
fill an application hole somewhere when your reputation is riding on it.

>.....
>:>>senior this year.
>:> ^^^^^^
>
>:Your point being?  Or do you feel that I'm unqualified to participate
>:in this discussion, because I'm still in high school?

No, but you must learn to understand the group of people you are dealing
with a little better.  Some of these people have been doing this shit
upwards of 10 years, and seen products come an go.  Hell 2 years ago SCO
tried to kill off Xenix.  Lasted about a month, till Michaels & Co came
back and recended the earlier declaration of dropping Xenix.  (Oh no, 
someone was misquoted, We had no intention my ass! :) )

You do NOT Piss all over a VERY LARGE installed user base.  That would
be like Microsft, when NT comes out, saying Screw DOS we have a REAL os
now,  Switch cause we ain't sellin it no more.  Hehehehe,  Digital
Reasearch would probably jump all over that one...

>
>Hire the teenagers while they still know all the answers! When I
>graduated from high school, I knew it all.  Four years of college
>taught me how little I really know (it took me a lot longer than
>that to learn a little humility :-).

Ahh Bill,  That is perhaps our problem as we get older <sigh>.  We get
very used to those things that are familiar to us, but if Linus Torvalds
had a little humility we may not have Linux either.  BTW.  Xenix
compatability for Linux is in the works, as is MS-DOS emulation.  The
DOS king himself was but a young pup when he sold the world on DOS.

I'm afraid the OS of the future is far from decided, Although I seem to
note "XENIX and SCO compatability" a hell of a lot.  Flattery wouldn't
you say Marc?  Indeed, and neccessary too!

>
>Bill
>-- 
>INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
>UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
>             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
>SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It doesn't matter.  I speed a process up from 1 hour to 20 minutes, and
then it's STILL too long.  Streamline it to 10 and we complain about the
effect on other apps.  Forever we will go faster, faster, faster.  Only
thing is we went from IBM AS/400 to 486/33 dropping around 70% of the
hardware cost.  Cheaper & faster all the time my friend.
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...