From: mmoore@dsd.es.com (Mike Moore)
Subject: Re: SB vs 6 Captains
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:00:23 GMT

In article <kePdEAW00awIMccEc2@andrew.cmu.edu>, Richard Weinstein <rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> 
|> Duh.
|> We're not talking about 6 people uncloaking together. I thought the whole
|> debate was about an average 6 man ogg. The AVERAGE 6 man ogg in a REAL GAME
|> sucks dick. I've survived a hundred without taking serious damage. 
|> 
`
	The whole debate (since I pretty much started it) was that Mr.
Stephen Joseph Smith said if you put any 6 captains up against Balton
then he'd take Balton for at least three waves.

	I denied this... things went from there.. :-)

	Anyway, maybe this has no practical bearing on netrek, but then
again maybe it does.  It is defining just what the limits of the SB are
in a controlled environment.  When Balton gets back, we could test it
once and for all on him.  And if he doesn't live, well then I'd say
the case is pretty much closed concerning the ability of an SB to
survive two waves of 6 captains.  What this means in practical terms is 
up to you, but at least it's something solid and proven.
	
	
|> Most are, yes! Not people who are captain with 100 hours, but your AVERAGE
|> captain is not a very good player, and certainly not a good ogger.

	I beg to differ.  Your average captain is quite deserving of
respect, and ogging an SB is the easiest form of ogging of all.  It seems
to me that if the player sucks then they don't make captain at 1XDI, and
by the time 2XDI rolls around they're certainly good players.  The only
kind that I might consider not a very good player are those who play
on the low-clued servers and those who only know how to scum.

	But your captains from bronco and bezier are certainly good
players for the most part.  Some of the best players I know are Captains.


|> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> As far as I can tell, this whole stupid thing has gotten down to whether
|> a good base can live at his home planet when 6 good oggers come to kill
|> him, by any means they desire. I ask you: WHAT KIND OF STUPID QUESTION
|> IS THAT? you would never have to "ogg" the base, you could stand back
|> and blow torps at him outside of tractor range. I thought we went 
|> through this in the original thread?!?!? That question has no bearing
|> on the game of netrek. I thought we wanted to see if standard ogg WAVES
|> of 6 AVERAGE players could beat the best bases. I don't consider myself
|> one of the best bases, but felt insulted by W.Katz's post, and felt I 
|> had to defend myself.
|> 

	Like I said above, I think the question, when answered, is of
some use.  And it's fun to find out anyway.  And that's what netrek is
for, to have fun.... It's just funny how much pride people can put on
their netrek playing ability.  Netrek ego's are pretty silly.

|> You guys really don't understand the power of Balton, Balinor, and 
|> SpaceAce!, do you? DAMN I wish Craig were here. What the hell am *I*
|> doing as the representative of the "Unkillable SB"?? I'm not even in
|> the top ten, and you still had troubles with me.
|> 

	Were you watching "Masters of the Universe" when you wrote this?
Seriously, I based my whole argument on my observance of Balton and 
Balinor (though I haven't seen Balinor for quite some time).  As for 
Spaceace, I'd have to say Yea Boy!!! is better at nabbing the cloakers,
and thus a bit better at basing....

	If you didn't get over 12 kills ONCE, then I wouldn't think 
they had too many "problems".  

	Why don't you just admit that you were stomped by them?  That's
all Felix said.  If you took this as an insult it means you're letting
your ego get into the picture... The whole point here is that NO base
can survive two waves of 6 captain oggers.  Just because this turns
out to be true does not mean you're a bad base.  

|> all flames to /dev/null PLEASE. I do NOT want further comment on this
|> idiocy until we see how Rob does.

	Well, here's my forcast... Rob dies just like you did.... maybe 
he does a little better or maybe a little worse.  But I'll be very
surprised if he consistently lives through two waves.  But then,
I've been wrong before.



	-Michael (Ged... who does enjoy this debate and finds it much more
                  entertaining than NBR client additions and server bugs.)


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