From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Villains and Vigilantes
Date: 28 Sep 92 03:28:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <Bv9HqJ.Ln5@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
>In article <6353@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>|> 	That's one of the best things of the game. A different defense
>|>  works differently against a given offense (i.e., that Ice Wall will be

>Here's one thing i found VERY confusing about V&V...  What happens if you have
>two defenses, one of which defends well against an attack, and one of which is
>worse than having no defense?  (ie Frost Giant is attacked by a flame bolt, and
>uses his ice powerrs as a defense.  On the other hand, size change larger
>gives flame powers a better chance of hitting... (I'm not sure if this example
>is right, but I know there were some cases in which it would be.)

	Well, I think it would depend on the individual case -- in the case
you cite (assuming that it is correct, I don't have the book handy), I
would say, average them, adjusting for the amount of power you put into
the ice wall -- you can't reduce your size if you're a permanent giant,
so you always have that disadvantage, but you can probably pour a lot of
power into the wall. 

	So if one would give a 6 result and the other a 20 result on
the table, average them for a 13 on the table and roll away... (no
one who plays Champions had better complain about doing an average
on a table! :)  )

>|> like what Marvel's Karma turned out to be with respect to gaining
>|> abilities (although that was more inspired by The Arcanum and its experience
>|> system; in The Arcanum, you can gain XPs and go up in level, or use the XP
>|> to buy a skill.
>Sounds like a good system, and I do like the way the system gives an edge to
>"veteran" super-(heros/villains).  Did you find a way to make the xp awards
>be more in line with the power of your opponents?

	I think that, like most of the games we played, we used the charts
as baselines but adjusted heavily according to what actually happened --
that is, if you ran into a villain with wimpy powers but he still managed
to give you mucho problems, you got a lot more xps than you did for a
powerful  villain who was defeated by a rather straighforward smash-n-bash.


>|> find it a lot faster to make a CONCEPT character in V&V than in 
>|> Champions.

>Hmm... gotta disagree a bit here.  The difference isn't THAT huge, when you
>consider how much time it takes to work out the hit mod and carrying capacity
>for a player, and much of the increased time in Champs is due to the extra
>options a player is presented with.

	I dunno. If you want to build a character concept, in Champions or
any point based system, you usually have to either squash or chop the 
concept because the points are never quite right.  In a non-point restricted
environment, you just build the concept. No point fiddling and the hit mod
and CC rules are VERY simple calculations -- a matter of two minutes total.
I know, we used to do (when making villains) six characters an hour just
before a game (three by me, three by my friend).

>Okay, one more thing from V&V which needs fixing...  Did you fix the
>Charisma system?  (Shortly before I switched over to Champs I came across
>an article in Dragon which made Charisma make sense, with a separate Charisma
>stat, and a Reputation stat which modified your Charisma up or down depending
>on who you were dealing with.)

	Basically that's what we did.  Your charisma bonus depended both
on your rep, who you were meeting, and your opposite number's knowledge
of you.

>(Oh, Sea Wasp, there's no reason to refer to Champs as Chumpions.  It's the
>sort of thing I'd expect from a mindless woofer on one of the rec.sport
>newsgroups, and certainly not from someone with your demonstrated capacity for
>reasonable arguments B-))

	:)

	Um, I suppose I shouldn't have, but that was in response to the
Bluerazor-like Champions puffing I was seeing ("There simply is no better
system" blah blah...)...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;