HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:21:29 GMT
Organization: The Wolery

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>      Then there's the way they munged the backspace key, and by
> implication the OSes that listen to what it's become.  It's always
> a test of my self-control to see whether I can get "stty erase ^H"
> typed with no errors, because otherwise I'd probably put my foot
> through the screen.  Grrr...

Eh?  DEC always use DEL for delete.  It's that bloody telephone company
that used BS to erase characters.  I can't comment on TOPS, but I haven't
seen a DEC OS which uses BS as erase, and the LK201 (the standard "DEC"
layout) doesn't even have backspace key.  (You can press Ctrl/H if you 
_really_ must....  8-)

As for editors etc that look for the ESC character.....

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:10969 comp.sys.amiga.games:10691
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 11:53:00 MST
From: <AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: Re: MS-LOSS Stupidity (Wasn't: Computer Button Sayings)
 <14dsacINN373@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <URJHAGE@taronga.com>

In article <URJHAGE@taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) says:
>In article <14dsacINN373@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (tuu)      :
>writes
>>       I have a great suggestion for you.. Get the rights yourself and
>>write the games yourself.
>
>Been there, done that, got ripped off. Don't play that game any more.

So how about some details?  What happened?

David Hungerford AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET  Opinions?  Mine, all mine!!!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick)
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????
Originator: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:09:19 GMT


Short lesson on "compatible tapes" (think "open-reel audio tape deck"):

   1/2 inch wide tape, on 10 inch reels.  Typically, 2400 feet of
   tape per reel.

   Data recording modes:

     7-track (6 data bits + parity), at 200, 556, and 800 bits/inch.

     9-track (8 data bits + parity) at 800 and 1600 bpi.  (Mutant
	     systems used 3200 bpi.  This was _not_ standard.)

     9-track (8 data bits + parity + "ecc" encoding) at 6250 bpi.


7-track, even parity tapes used a character set called "BCD" (Binary
Coded Decimal), a 6-bit character encoding scheme.  Writing a
binary zero (all 0 bits) served to "truncate" a tape record -- it
was interpreted by the tapedrive system as an "end of datablock"
indicator.  Bad news for writing arbitrary binary data, as many 
"experienced" users will attest.  (Writing in odd parity would
work fine, but it was _even_ parity that was the *standard* for
data interchange between computer systems.)

Along with the introduction of 9-track tapes, there was this
new character set -- _Extended_ Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code
(EBCDIC), which S/360 mavins all know and love.

Half-inch tape was (and probably still is) _THE_ data archiving medium.
There are millions upon millions of reels of that stuff in use.
  
[Disclaimer: The above is a _very_ terse summary of Things As They Were]


[Obligatory folklore?  In one of our terminal rooms, we had this data
     transcription device -- an 029.  It was most amusing to watch 
     current-day students enter the room, look at that machine, and
     adopt this "What the heck is *that*? look.
     Ah, for the good ol' days.   Sigh.]

-- 
John G Dobnick                          ATTnet: (414) 229-5727
Computing Services Division             INTERNET: jgd@uwm.edu
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee     UUCP: uunet!uwm!jgd

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight."  -- William Safire

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: What does UNIX mean?
Followup-To: news.announce.newusers
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 00:04:05 GMT

This is one of the first FAQ questions in news.announce.newusers.
Please answer it for yourself there.

Back to regularly scheduled programming....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  NO, I am NOT on the Steering Committee this year
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:49:15 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <cline.711789582@ebony.cs.scarolina.edu>, by cline@cs.scarolina.edu (Ernest Cline):
> course, Mac companies have an advantage in this regard, most Mac users know
> that it is almost impossible to write bug free software, 

...by extrapolating from the software available for Macs, or what?
Strange argument.

-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Old games (Was: MS-LOSS Stupidity (Wasn't: Computer Button Sayings))
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:12:12 GMT
Reply-To: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
 <1992Jul10.163133.21603@exu.ericsson.se> <Br6wFC.F3@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> <jeremy.711082452@chao>
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge) writes:

> think I have stacks of magazines with pages full of little binary
> patches to do unethical things (pages and pages ok POKEs).  Them
> memories.

While we've got the Big Iron-ers distracted with all these microcomputer
threads, and seeing as you've brought up magazines:

When I was at college (that's High-School for you furriners) there was a
System-80 there (trash-80 clone). Computer & Video Games (I think) published
a listing for a game called "Warpath" (again, the name could be wrong).
A friend an I tried to type it in. It was a massive thing, what seemed like
thousands of lines of BASIC and then endless pages of raw hex. Needless to
say, we never got it working - numerous typos while entering the hex bytes was
the main problem. I was just curious - does anyone remember this? Did it
work? And did you get it working by typing it in?

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 63 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:47:30 GMT

In article <14hmmaINNkge@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>
>As for TK50 - it's a brain-dead DEC console cartridge tape (btw, it's
>contoller can be switched to emulate the TS-11 9-track tape controller :-)
>I guess it usually is. Unix tape interface is heavily infuenced by
>pecularities of 9-track tape format (say, impossibility to write safely in the
>middle of tape files or double tape mark as end-of-tape indicator) and
>looks, hm, strange when applied to modern streaming tapes.
>
Perhaps the strangeness is merely that you are seeing the "raw" medium for
what it is, not "wrapped" by some standard access method or somesuch.

Except for overall performance I see little change in the basic premise of
magnetic tape devices.  You can create block-replaceable areas using wide 
gaps and are willing to have performance problems attempting to use it
as such.  The most performance demands strictly sequential access which in
turn means that the data can't be random acess.

Tape streamers such as QIC-80 work the same way.  A directory area is 
reserved near the beginning which is rewritable due to the gap.  The rest of
the data should be written in sequential fashion, and you have to stream
to get access to it, or suffer a turnaround penalty.  In a sense, the
original 9-tracks were better because they didn't demand streaming if
used in start-stop mode.  There are 9-track streamers that do all the
obligatory turn-arounds automatically if necessary, to ensure the data
gets written correctly, but the performance suffers if the streaming can't
continue.

cjl


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Unix names
Reply-To: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Organization: The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:04:22 GMT


aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Arlie Davis) writes:
>Better yet, how do you pronounced chmod,

Most people around here seem to pronounce all of the ch* commands
(chmod, chfn, chsh... ) as 'change <whatever>'

Change mode, Change finger (or change F-N), Change shell

and /etc is usually 'slash ETC' (as in the first syllable of etcetera).



-- 
The Upholder of Truth		  	    I am not only ready to
Upholder@uiuc.edu (BSD/ASCII mail)          retract this, but also
jar42733@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu (NeXT mail)    deny I said anything.  =)
wi.4173@wizvax.methuen.ma.us (anon. mail)   This is *NOT* CCSO's opinion.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell)
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:45:37 GMT

In article <jimf.712417131@centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>         DEC Ultrix isn't very POSIX compliant

Ah, but VMS is!!

Dylan.
-- 
It is no coincidence that in no known language does the phrase 'As
pretty as an Airport' appear -- Douglas Adams
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden)
Subject: Re: ibm displaywriter iii
Organization: Rick's Home-Grown Un*x
Distribution: alt
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:09:16 GMT

"curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com> writes:

>  ObFolklore:
>    *Why* was current loop originally used, and why has it since been so
>  completely replaced by voltage-level 232 ???
 
To make it independent of potential drop in a loop that might be
many kilometers of rusty iron wire?  This is _telegraphy_ we're
doing, after all.  8-)  8-)  8-)
 
RS232 is a) a multi-wire connection and b) more in tune with
the driving capabilities of transistor circuits of conventional
design?
 
 
-- 
 
samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden) -- and not a mere Device.
 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.182532.280@news.cs.indiana.edu> bobmon@sandshark.cs.indiana.edu (Bob Montante) writes:
>"Keyboard?  How quaint!"

I assume you have a Macintrash or equivalent, so you use a mouse.

My response to that is the scene in StarTrek IV where Scotty attempts to
talk into the mouse, then realizes how quaint *it* is.

BTW, anyone done any studies regarding how mice (and keyboards as well,
but specifically mice) contribute to Carpel-Tunnel Syndrome and the like?
How about thumb-spun trackballs?

cjl
From: drake@drake.almaden.ibm.com (Sam Drake)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:46:45 GMT
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

In article <1992Jul30.065912.25948@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>             (extra credit: what's the IBM 370 terminology for cache, not
>included in the above list)

"Cache".  Terms revolving around "cache", such as "cache lines", are commonly
used when discussing 370-class systems.  If anyone told you a different term,
you might check to see if you still have your wallet.


Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center 
Internet:  drake@almaden.ibm.com    BITNET:  DRAKE at ALMADEN
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dougm@cns.caltech.edu (Doug McNaught)
Subject: Re: Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
	<1992Jul28.182532.280@news.cs.indiana.edu>
	<1992Jul29.162222.13725@news.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:54:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.162222.13725@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

   BTW, anyone done any studies regarding how mice (and keyboards as well,
   but specifically mice) contribute to Carpel-Tunnel Syndrome and the like?
   How about thumb-spun trackballs?

  I would think that having to use a mouse would slow the development
of carpal tunnel syndrom, which I understand arises from keeping one's
hands in the same place for a long time with the wrists in an
unnatural position (lower than the fingers)--secretaries and
data-entry operators seem to get it the most. Zipping one's right (or
left) hand over to the rodent every few minutes would relieve the
tension at least on that wrist. I'm not too worried about getting it
myself as I seem to spend most of my screen time staring at the
terminal window and occasionally hitting 'n' or the space bar :)

-doug
--
Doug McNaught              |"Sadder still to watch it die/ Then never to have
dougm@cns.caltech.edu      | known it/ For you, the blind who once could see/
doug@midget.towson.edu     | The bell tolls for thee..." --Neil Peart
  Nobody approves my opinions! Not even me, sometimes. Read at your own risk.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 08:17:00 GMT

> > And what about the old story concerning the etymology of the word "bug"
> > as applied to computers, when Cmdr. Grace Hopper is alleged to have found
> > an electrocuted moth in the innards of one of the Navy's computers?  :-)
> There is nothing 'alleged' about it.  They taped the moth in their log
> book.  The book is now in some library/museum.  ....
> The moth wasn't electrocuted, it was crushed in one of the relays.

The incident happened, but it wasn't Hopper who personally discovered the
moth (according to what I've read).  "Alleged" is appropriate, therefore.

-- 
Mark Brader			People who think for a living have always
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto		been especially prone to confuse thinking
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com	with living.		-- G. L. Sicherman

This article is in the public domain.
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: half-inch tape: transport design
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:50:43 GMT

From article <jcmorris.711736167@mwunix>,
by jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris):

> Since half-inch tape has appeared in threads here, I've got a question
> that's been bugging me for decades: why did most of the mainframe drives
> (especially IBM's 729 and 7330 drives on older equipment and 24xx drives
> on the S/360) use threading patterns which brought the oxide into sliding
> contact with the vacuum column walls?

I remember drives where it looked like the oxide was in sliding contact
with the vacuum column walls, but it wasn't really in contact because
there was a row of tiny holes down the center of each wall with compressed
air being blown through the holes.  The result was that the tape was sliding
over the walls of the vacuum column on a thin layer of air.

Of course, it is a bit odd to imagine the tape transport simultaneously
sucking the air out of the vacuum column as it blows air in through those
little holes, but without this, the friction of the tape against the walls
of the vacuum column would well be enough to stop the tape dead in its
tracks.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:25:26 GMT

In article <51211@zl2tnm.gen.nz> don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:

>delete).  I should have said the VT2xx only as a DEL key, but do note that
>the keyboard was not originally intended to have a BS key.  
>
>The scan codes on the keyboard are a bit of a red herring unless you're
>building something that uses a DEC keyboard, and at the price DEC charge
>for a bare keyboard, you'd be crazy to unless you already had a good supply
>of the things.

I didn't say the keys were in a good place, just that they exist at all!

>
>Personally, I find having ESC, BS & LF where God intended them to be (see
>the VT100 keyboard) preferable, but then I'm a sysprog at heart and a bit
>inclined to want to do tricky things with anything I lay my hands on...

It is interesting to note that when you open up the LK-201, you find an 
unimplemented key where you might want an ESC key!

I am working on a patch to the slushware that will allow the Compose Character
key to be used as ESC.  Also, I understand that there are some common
substitutions available on other DEC terminals, such as putting the < and >
optionally above the , and . respectively.  I would appreciate a list of
all of these wish-list mappings so that the DECmate terminal emulator can
look more like what people really want.

The DECmate III changes the graphic for the vertical modulus bar from the
broken bar pattern to a solid vertical line pattern as is depicted on the
plastic keycaps.  Which of these glyphs is preferred?  Any other font 
discrepancies to be discussed by anyone?

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
From: chandoni@husc8.UUCP (John-Marc Chandonia, , , )
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:45:26 EDT
Originator: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu

by dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert):
> After reading this an idle thought crossed my mind, wondering that if the
> author had been hit in the head by the tape reel, would he have been remembered
> as the first person ever to be killed by a computer?  Then I got to wondering
> if ANYONE had ever been killed by computer.  I suppose it depends on how you
> define it, surely people have been electrocuted while working on a computer in
> the past.  But tossing out the electrocution possibility and the certainty that
> many people have been killed by computer/programmer error before (i.e., the
> type of thing we read about in comp.risks) I wonder if anyone has ever been
> killed by a computer?

Here's an escape sequence for VT1000 terminals:  ^]]HastaLaVista
(a great way to kill people remotely)

JMC
-- 
chandoni@husc9.harvard.edu    | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
John-Marc Chandonia           | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Graduate Biophysics Program   | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom 
Harvard University            | I will not yell fire ...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ncc1701@madoka.its.rpi.edu (Mark O. Chadwick)
Subject: Re: Pong
Reply-To: ncc1701@acm.rpi.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:54:02 GMT

From article <john.711219891@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu>, by john@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu (John R. Schutz):
> 
> Gimme yer knowledge/rumors/innuendo/dirty laundry/etc on anything that
> even remotely has to do with Pong.  Please.

Hmm..well, I remember back in, oh, 1980 or so, Popular Electronics (or
some such mag) had this great little circuit that would turn your
oscilloscope into a pong machine.  A friend and I built it in college,
and played games while we were supposed to be watching some silly
analog circuit do its oscillation.  Got the prof's goat a bit, but
it WAS funny to see the quadruple-take he did...  Too bad we didn't
make any sound for it...

-Mark

-- 
---
Mark "Emerson" Chadwick -- ncc1701@acm.rpi.edu    chadwickmo@space.laafb.af.mil
From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:39:58 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <3466202@zl2tnm.gen.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes...
>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> You don't want to know what a TK50 is. Probably the worst cartridge design
>> for tape transport ever.
> 
>You mean only a bit more reliable than 8mm?
> 
>I've used TK50s for years, admittedly not beating them up for the main 
>backups (we used 9track), but I'm yet to see a TK50 fail, or even fail to
>load.  I've seen *lots* of 9tracks fail to load, or crap out in various
>interesting ways.  
> 
>For low-speed, low volume storage, TK50s aren't too bad.

Sure.  But who wants low-speed low-volume storage?  Personally, I want
high-speed high-volume storage with very compact media.  That's exactly
what 8mm drives give you.  I can't image what life would be like with my
two 600 Meg hard drives if I had to back them up to TK50 like I did in
the old days when my only disk was a 60 Meg system disk.

And TK50 is far too slow for data aquisition.  If you want to use your
VaxStation to collect data from an experiment (I'm a physics grad student),
TK50 is just a dog.  Exabytes are the way to go.  And they're much more
reliable than just a few years ago when the product first hit the market.

-Scott

--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
From: grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:10:46 GMT
Organization: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany

In article <1992Jul28.020456.3176@telesoft.com> kst@telesoft.com (Keith Thompson @pulsar) writes:
>The one on my right wrist (with the scientific and hex calculators) is
>in 24-hour mode, and the one on my left wrist (with the phone
>directory) is in 12-hour mode.
>
>Some people have literally screamed when they've suddenly noticed that
>I'm wearing two watches.

I don't blame them. It would drive me nutty too. How the ^&* do you
keep them in sync?

-- 
Greg Lehey                       | Tel: +49-6637-1488              
LEMIS                            | Fax: +49-6637-1489
Schellnhausen 2, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany
*** NOTE ***: Headers are mangled - reply to grog%lemis@Germany.EU.net
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Mercury memory (was Re: Cathode ray memory)
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:13:32 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <Bs9qBE.LtA@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
> ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!) writes:
>>A friend once told me about a research project he was involved with that
>>involved storing bits in a laser beam bounced off the moon.
> *----
> What's the use of a computer that only works on cloudless nights?

It was a _research_ project. Research projects don't _have_ to be
useful!

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers