HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tandrew@MtHolyoke.edu (Tamara Andrew)
Subject: old car museums
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:07:38 GMT


I know of one antique auto museum in Enid Oklahoma.  I haven't been there
myself...but have been told that most of the cars are from around the '50's

 --
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
|  Tammy Andrew                      | The opinions expressed in  |
|                                    |   the above posting are    |
|  Physics Major - Lunatic           |   not necessarily the views|
|                                    |   of my employer, the view |
|  Snail: P.O. Box 1566              |   of the college to which  |
|         Mount Holyoke College      |   I attend, or the view    |
|         South Hadley, Mass  01075  |   out my window.           |
|  Email: tandrew@mhc.mtholyoke.edu  |      -end of statement!    |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu (Michael George Buening)
Subject: Re: Old Car Museums
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:17:07 GMT

In article <92322.164723SPOLINS@auvm.american.edu> <SPOLINS@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>We have two old cars a 1956 T-bird  and a 1966 T-bird.  The '66 is my husbands
>daily driver.  In our travels we like to visit old car museums.  A few years
>ago we went to the Henry Ford museum in Dearfield, Michigan and the Auburn,
>Cord, Dussenburg Museum in Auburn, Indiana.  I'd be interested to know of other
>antique/classic car museums.
>
>Susan Polinsky

Don't forget the Studebaker Museum in South Bend, IN which is not that far from
you guys.

-- 
| Michael Buening	    Nothing in life is as bad as we think    |
| mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu  nor is it as good as we hope.            |
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: kbr@cbnews.cb.att.com (kenneth.b.reber)
Subject: Re: old car museums
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:15:32 GMT

Don't forget the museums in Sandwich, Mass, Cassinovia, NY, Sarasota,
near Rapid City, Pidgon Forge, TN, L.A., Reno, Chicago, Cleveland, my barn.

There everywhere!

In article <Bxw8sr.BCF@mtholyoke.edu> tandrew@MtHolyoke.edu (Tamara Andrew) writes:
>
>I know of one antique auto museum in Enid Oklahoma.  I haven't been there
>myself...but have been told that most of the cars are from around the '50's
>
> --
>+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
>|  Tammy Andrew                      | The opinions expressed in  |
>|                                    |   the above posting are    |
>|  Physics Major - Lunatic           |   not necessarily the views|
>|                                    |   of my employer, the view |
>|  Snail: P.O. Box 1566              |   of the college to which  |
>|         Mount Holyoke College      |   I attend, or the view    |
>|         South Hadley, Mass  01075  |   out my window.           |
>|  Email: tandrew@mhc.mtholyoke.edu  |      -end of statement!    |
>+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: VETTE to drive for appreciation?
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:53:06 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

I'm would like to hear comments regarding what years of Corvettes you think
would be the best year to purchase for appreciation.  While the older cars 
(57-67) might give the highest appreciation in dollars, that might not be as
good a percentage increase as a later model (68-72).  (Hope that's clear!)

I asked the same question to a classic car appraiser, and he said that it was
his opinion that the years 68-72 would offer the best percentage increase.  

I plan to drive it everyday for a few years, then have it professionally 
restored and retire it to the garage.

I have four questions:

	1. What is it about the 68-72 years that would result in the
	   appraiser saying these would be the best years for appreciation?

	2. What's your opinion as to what years offer the best percentage 
	   increase.

	3. What year, feature combination do you think would offer the
	   best investment in order to maximize percentage increase, and
	   why?

	4. What price do you think I should be able to find this (your
	   recommendation) car at, considering the following:

		A. It will be restored so it wouldn't have to be in
		   immaculate condition, but would want it to be good
		   in appearance (I don't want to drive a junker), and
		   mechanically sound.
		
		B. It must have matching numbers.

		C. Relatively low milage.  Even after driving it for a few
		   years (I don't put many miles on each year even driving
		   every day), I still want to end up with a car with 
		   relatively low miles.

I would appreciate it if you would post here.  I'm interested in hearing
many varied opinions!

Ben
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly. 
Xref: sparky alt.autos.antique:2214 rec.autos.antique:22
From: cmraman@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Focused on Infinity)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique,rec.autos.antique
Subject: Re:       Old Car Museums
Date: 18 Nov 1992 16:43:20 GMT
Organization: Fifties Finest Auto Appreciation Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu
Summary: Harrah's and Blackhawk


In article <1992Nov18.012808.15770@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>In article <92322.164723SPOLINS@auvm.american.edu> <SPOLINS@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>>In our travels we like to visit old car museums.  A few years
>>ago we went to the Henry Ford museum in [Dearborn], Michigan and the Auburn,
>>Cord, Dusenberg Museum in Auburn, Indiana.  I'd be interested to know of other
>>antique/classic car museums.
>>
>>Susan Polinsky
>
>A couple of years ago, we went to the Rear View Mirror Museum in Nag's Head,
>North Carolina (On our way to Key West, Fl in our 65 Polara).   

Of course, one of the most famous antique car collections is the Wm. Harrah
collection, housed in Reno. though I have heard that it has been sold off
in bits and pieces, in recent years, there is still quite a selection.

Another nice one that has recently opened is the Blackhawk Museum in the 
East Bay (that's the San Francisco Bay, for all you non-California types).
It's in a gated community called Blackhawk, so named because the developer
has a love of classic cars including (natch) the Stutz. It's supposed to be
a very nice place. I was most annoyed to discover that my parents had gone
without me. :(

I have crossposted to rec.autos.antique because i have the feeling this 
group may soon be departing the scene.
-- 
..___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___...
Marc Reeve
cmraman@ucscb.ucsc.edu	cmraman@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us
"Dragon with matches loose on the town
Takes a whole pail of water just to cool him down."

Naturally my opinions are unheard by UCSC, as it is a bureaucratic monolith.
Newsgroups: ba.forsale,alt.autos.antique
From: bhayes@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Barry Hayes)
Subject: Classic '65 Valiant For Sale
Originator: bhayes@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: /dev/null
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:01:12 GMT

1965 Valiant for sale, with the unstoppable slant-6.  
Runs ok, but don't expect much more.
$600 or best offer.

Call Gary (510) 652-9505 -- the car is in Menlo Park and we can
arrange for a meeting.

[
NB -- I'm posting this for a friend, please phone the number but don't
respond to me.
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech
From: kempfsc@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: british cars
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:50:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.062251.994@colorado.edu>, drew@ladymacb.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.071001.22666@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>>Given that to cruise at x MPH you need y Horsepower, is it true that
>>an engine of smaller displacement can produce y horespower more
>>economically than an engine of larger displacement? (I'd like to
>>keep the comparison limited to 196x circa engines and technology, no
>>fuel injection or multi-valved cylinders).
> 
> In highschool, it seemed that friends with TA's and Cameros with 
> smaller engines got better mileage than friends with larger 
> engines.  These guys would drive by the family church and lay a fifty foot 
> strip of posi patties on the pavement so they'd have something to brag 
> about on Sunday, so that might not be saying too much.
> 
> 
>>A lot is said about "tuning" an older vehicle to reduce its emissions.
>>But unless I'm mistaken, the only tuning that can be done on a carb is
>>the idle mixture.  If so, how can a carb be tuned for off idle mixtures?
>>I would think (or hope :) that most of the time, the car is not idling,
>>but is actually in motion.
> 
> You can rejet carbs.  Generally, this is very straight forward 
> with the main jets (ie, you can change them with a screw driver),
> although the secondary jets on some carbs may be fixed.
> 
>>If you "enhance" your engine by going from a 2-barrel carb to a 4,6,or
>>8 barrel carb, you generally seem to decrease fuel economy.  Is this
>>because a 2 barrel carb makes the engine run leaner than a 4 or 8
>>barrel carb?
> 
> You don't have a decrease in fuel economy if you use the right
> carb.  In fact, you could even see an increase in economy.
> 
> Most four barells generally use a progressive linkage. The 
> primaries, used for "normal" driving, are tuned for economy.  
> If you need extra power, the secondaries kick in.  On the otherhand,
> most American two barells don't, so the same metering system tries 
> to get it right for all conditions from just off idle to WOT.
> 
> Bad mileage happens when people throw a Holly 850 Double Pumper on 
> a small block.
> 
>>Does the ideal carb exist?  (ie a carb that will run an engine at
>>what ever stochiometric ratio the designer wants, over a given range
>>of rpm and load)?
> 
> Fuel injection, set up with an airflow sensor of some sort, 
> oxygen sensor in the exhaust for feed back, and computer controlling 
> the amount of fuel based on airflow, load, etc....
> 
> -- 
> Microsoft is responsible for propogating the evils it calls DOS and Windows, 
> IBM for AIX (appropriately called Aches by those having to administer it), but 
> marketing's sins don't come close to those of legal departments.
> Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit.
From: SYSOP@HEATHER.hanse.de (Michael Grube)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Distribution: world
Subject: GMC truck steering
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:16:57 +0100
Organization: Heather Heart Mailbox, Germany
X-Version: UUCPfZ V2.9a

Howdy!

I have a '56 GMC pickup truck which I'm currently preparing for the
german safety inspection. The former owner installed a Grant steering
wheel with '13 diameter. This wheel is simply too small to give the
truck a good handling, besides that, the safety inspector sure won't
like it.

So I'm planning to install a larger steering wheel, more like 16 or 17
inch. But over here, this turns out to be difficult. Everything is metric,
so I can't just go to the local yard and pull me a wheel. Things get even
more difficult, since I don't like this modern looks, I'd like to have
sumptin' from the fourties or fifties, maybe like the 40's Chrysler  or
early fifties Buick wheels.

What I need to know is :

  - Is the steering wheel mount in the '56 GMC/Chevy trucks unique or
    are there wheels from other cars/years/makes which would fit without
    modification?

Any help appreciated!

  Mike


-- 
:- '66 Dodge Polara                                       '56 GMC P/U truck -:
:- Michael Grube, Huetzeler Damm 32, DW-3045 Bispingen, voice +49-5194-1526 -:

Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique,rec.autos.antique
From: rdi@cci632.cci.com (Rick Inzero)
Subject: Re: Old Car Museums
Reply-To: rdi@ccird3.UUCP (Rick Inzero)
Organization: CCI, Communications Systems Division, Rochester, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:20:56 GMT

My neighbor owns *18* special-interest/antique cars.  Does this 
qualify as a museum?? :-) :-)
This summer, he entered 15 of them in one car show.  He and his wife 
started bringing the cars out at 5:30 in the morning, and didn't get 
all the cars back home until about 9:30 PM.  I think he won 11 trophies.

---
Rick Inzero, President of the "Put The High Beam Switch Back On The Damn 
				Floor, Where It Belongs Society"
						rochester!cci632!rdi
Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI)			uunet!ccicpg!cci632!rdi
Rochester, NY					rdi@cci.com

"A Corvette may be faster, but my `67 Impala's got more inertia!"

Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL)
Subject: 64 Ford F-100
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:19:58 GMT

Sorry about the title had to get someone's attention.

To cm@eng.ufl.edu, could you send me a number address???  I got your E-mail and  
tried to reply, but the NMSU mailer doesn't recognize eng.ufl.edu.  A number  
address will do the trick...
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: ingram@sequent.com (Bill Ingram)
Subject: Re: old car museums
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:55:41 GMT

In article <CHRISB.92Nov19003834@lynx.ps.uci.edu> chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) writes:
%
%In article <1992Nov18.191532.28102@cbnews.cb.att.com> kbr@cbnews.cb.att.com (kenneth.b.reber) writes:
%
%   Don't forget the museums in Sandwich, Mass, Cassinovia, NY, Sarasota,
%   near Rapid City, Pidgon Forge, TN, L.A., Reno, Chicago, Cleveland, my barn.
%
%   There everywhere!
%
%=============================================================
%
%There is another car museum at the Imperial Palace hotel in Las Vegas.
%In Ventura County, CA there is an appointment-only museum filled with 
%Otis Chandler's (L.A. Times magnate) collection of 60's muscle cars.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's in Oxnard, Ca. (Ventura Cty.), lot's of MOPARS (Rapid Transit System 
types from the 60's & early 70's). Very nice. Just off Hwy 101.
Bill
%
%Chris
%--
%---------------------------------------------------------------------------
%Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92716 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu
%
%           Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman
%---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: milliganc@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: RE: Old Car Museums
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:24:32 GMT

The Owl's Head Museum is good, it's a working museum, everything you see
works and is used on show dates.  I recomend the Rally the second weekend
in August, I've been going since it's start in the early 70's.  The Museum of
Transportation [MOT(-no, not Minestry Of..)] in the Lahrz anderson park is good
to... the Veteran Motor Car Club of America used to hold meetings and events
there, still do.  Also there is the Indian Motocycle museum in Springfeild,
Mass. (yes the spelling is MOTOCYCLE).  I my self am ast. curator of the
SPAM Museum (Society for the Preservation of Antique Machinery)...read: my
barn.   
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique,rec.autos.antique
From: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Kilpatrick)
Subject: Re: Old Car Museums
Reply-To: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:40:10 GMT

  There is a small museum at Stone Mountain near Atlanta, Ga.  One car it has is
a 1948 Tucker.
From: ans0@aber.ac.uk (Austin Newton Shackles)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Re: MG Marque lives again!!!
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:11:16 GMT
Organization: University College of Wales, Aberystwyth

yeah i saw the announcements in the press about this one...of course if you want a REAL sports car, you need a Morgan plus 8 ...(:-)).  

it sounds like a potentially fun car (albeit expensive)...the other car of this type that I would consider is a Caterham 7 (Lotus 7 in disguise :-) ) with the big valve high-performance engine. this is a great-looking little car, and the souped-up engine apparently makes it go pretty well too, allied to light weight.

btw, the "Prince of Drakness" bit is a pun on Lucas's "King of the Road" headlamps, which were good at the time they were first made...my car currently has 100/80 W  halogen bulbs, and they are BRIGHT. (they also come in a standard 
H4 (in the uk) fitting so they're a direct rplacement for those feeble 45/40 W bulbs that many cars come with as standard kit. i see you can get 130/90 as well, but my alternator and wiring arent that strong.

in relation to the MG with round 7-in sealed beam units, replacement halogen units with the same fitting should be easy to get, and allow the use of the aforementioned bulbs, alternatir ouptut permitting...

eeek...gotta go...physics practical in 3 minutes...

-- 
   Austin Newton Shackles   |  Give me serenity to accept the unchangeable,
   ans0@uk.ac.aberystwyth   |  Courage to change the changeable, and wisdom to
   DoD#0467 1981 Z440 Ltd   |  know the difference.  My opinions are just that 
   shackles@uk.ac.lampeter  |  Physics dept. University of Wales, Aberystwyth.
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: dmp@engr.latech.edu (Delaine Pylant)
Subject: Re: Old Car Museums
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:05:11 GMT

Rockefeller left quite a few cars on Petit Jean Mtn. in Arkansas.  Probably
50 cars are in their museum.  Each July they have an Antique Car Show on the
mountain.  Hundreds of vendors and cars from all over the US make their way
up there.  It's a really fun place to go.  Nice camping - cabins, motel, RV
parking, motorhomes, trailers, and even tents.  Call Buddy  & Tootsie Holes-
man (sp) at the museum in Morrilton, AR for info.

------------*************dmp@engr.latech.edu****************--------------
Delaine Pylant, Dept of Petroleum Engineering and Geosciences, 
Louisiana Tech University, Ruston, Louisiana 71270
From: westbya@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Anders O Westby)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: 1950`s Panel Truck
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:35:31 GMT
Followup-To: westbya@stolaf.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN

I just noticed that a truck is going on sale soon, and I was
wondering if anyone has any info concerning it.  It is an early 50's Chevy
Panel Truck.  It looks like a 3/4 or 1 ton job, and the condition is about 3
or 4.  What sort of prices are we talking?  Are there parts availiable.  Can
I restore it with standard truck parts or are the panel trucks specialized
throughout?  Would I be getting into a big mess taking this on? BTW, I don't
know if I would want to restore it or rod it.

Anders Westby (westbya@stolaf.edu)

Ob antiques.  We have a 34 Chevy with a 46 straight six in it (205ci?) Anyone
know where I can find an original engine?  How about any parts at all for it.
Most catalogues I have seen start with 36.  (This is a 1/2 ton truck)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: gwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Gregg Podnar)
Subject: Re:       Old Car Museums
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:09:30 GMT


On the back side of Mt.Desert Is. off Maine is a warehouse.  We saw an old
Model T flatbed in the weeds, so we knocked onthe door.  For $3 they let us in.
It was a private museum filled with old Fords, Hispano Suizas (sp), a Stutz,
motorcycles, &c.  Maybe 200-300 cars.  This was in the early 1970's.

Cleveland, Ohio has the Thompson Auto museum (part of the Western Reserve 
Historical Society).  Very nice.

Also, just outside of Cleveland is a fellow named Brice who has three buildings
on his property filled with everything from Huppmobiles to Isettas, motor
scooters to wagons.  He calls it the Motorpool and will tell you all the 
stories.  He also has a great quantity of original literature which he will
photo copy for you at cost.
From: v125qmam@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ami R Pflugrad)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Parts Wanted -- '67 New Yorker
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hi all,
	I have a 1967 Chrysler New York which I am slowly restoring.
	The Car has Original EVERYTHING (Down to the Mounting Bolts)
	with the exception of the gas line (I replaced it with a third
	party copper tubing 2 years ago).  I'm looking for switches
	to control the power windows and a map light. 
	
	Anyone know where I might find these hard-to-find parts.

				Thanks
				- Ami
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Re: Old Car Museums
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:40:36 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research and Environmental Staff

And then there is the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green,
Kentucky that will be opening sometime next summer.

---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research and Environmental Staff
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.
From: kempfsc@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Jaguar Restoration
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:17:51 GMT
Organization: Auburn University, AL

I guess I could call this RE:British cars, however, since it's sort
of a new question, and, also, I'm new at this I decided to use the 
POST command instead of FOLLOWUP.

I have a 1957 XK-140 roadster (Jaguar) that I owned since 1965. It 
gave me a number of good years of driving experience while I was in
college and, actually, was the reason I became a fair mechanic (not
having the funds, as a college student, to have it repaired by a
regular dealer or garage). Over the years I've rebuilt the engine 
twice, the first time because it was nearly dead when I bought it,
and the second time (years later) to correct the mistakes (i.e. 
chrome steel piston rings, not having the block bored or cleaned, 
used timing chains, etc.) I made the first time. This second rebuild was
actually done after many years of storage, and since the beast
has been sitting in my garage, waiting on my having time to do the rest of the
restoration. It's become abundantly evident that that time will never come, so
I've decided to bite the bullet, so to speak, and find a shop that I can pay to
do the job. We're I still living in Cleveland or Seattle, finding a competent
shop wouldn't be too much of a problem; however, living in Auburn, AL as I
presently am, and not being very familier with the south in general, I have not
yet found a shop within a reasonable distance (say 200 miles) that I can
determine is competent to do a good job.

If anyone out there has any suggestions they'd be more than welcome. If you're
going to suggest a shop to do the work, I'd like to know why you think they're
good and any info on yours or others experiences in dealing with them during
such a restoration.

Please answer through this newsgroup or at KEMPFSC@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU.

Thanks.
 
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: iguana@nmt.edu (Shawn Clever)
Subject: What's with rec.autos.antique??
Keywords: What the?
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:07:50 GMT


What's up with rec.autos.antique??  I know I don't catch you dude's group
very often, but why the split into rec.autos.antique and alt.autos.antique???

Confused,

Shawn Clever
(Lizardman)
iguana@jupiter.nmt.edu




Xref: sparky alt.autos.antique:2231 rec.autos.antique:35