From: CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET (VALENTINE M. SMITH)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: "14 October"
Date: 14 Oct 92 07:04:27 GMT
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Comments: To: val-l@ucf1vm.bitnet, jwales@iubvm.bitnet, olsenj@stolaf.edu,
              kak@utrc.utc.com, writers@ndsuvm1.bitnet, Fi@grebyn.com

"14 October"

A sad evening/morning for me. A close friend came by last night,
wanting to talk, I was trying to finish the post announcing that I
might have to shut down Val-L, and I was in almost tears because I
have a two year investment of my self wrapped up in it, I have a
listmember determined to control the list, and I have failed
miserably in my dealings with the problem, and my friend blew his
stack because I would not stop what I was doing and deal with him
"NOW."  He stomped out of the house in a rage, and that was it. I
logged off and collapsed in emotional upset upon my keyboard, then
went downstairs and started yelling and throwing stuff (which I've
not done in eight years!).

A day of quarrels and hassles ending badly rarely sits well if one
has any sensitivity at all. But, after three days of wrangling with
Mr. Grossman (referred to as SG occasionally in this post) and his
"supporters" (and I use that word most vaguely!), then an argument in
my history of ancient Israel class about what power from the top was
capable of in the pre-Exile (prior to 589 BCE) period, then SG's
threat came that as long as I continued advocating "pragmatism" and
"altruism," he would continue sending Nazi propaganda to Val-L. He
only knows what he means by those terms, it's a no-win battle for me.
Then my friend Ed blew his stack at me, and stomped heavily from the
house, and I just came unglued for a bit, wandering around shouting
and yelling (I'll spare you all the expletives), startling my wife
and my three-nights-a-week chess opponent, Frank, quite badly. Frank,
in five years of knowing me, had never seen me so upset, he told me
after I calmed down again.

I was very proud of the fact that we had conducted a "salon of
rational discourse" on Val-L, with politeness, reaonability and
respect for each other for almost two years. This morning, I am very
angry at myself for letting the contremps with Mr. Grossman get out
of hand. I am also deeply saddened that he causes me the quandry of
having to deal with perhaps shutting down my beloved list because one
person refuses to adhere to a standard the rest of us freely agree to
- politeness, reasonableness, respect for opposing points of view,
and not engaging in ad hominem attacks, which Mr. Grossman is quite
fond of.

Both the desubbed Dan Lester (in the wake of this silliness, but not
because of it) and Terry Cooper pointed out to me that I have the
right as listowner to "boot" whomever, that the list is not a
democracy, and that a person amok I do not have to tolerate. Though I
partially agree, this dilemma is not solved by booting Mr. Grossman.
That goes against my basic belief processes about free speech (though
I freely confess I have threatened SG with being desubbed in
frustration - he refuses to try to be reasonable and has ignored me)
and allowing whomever to subscribe. I agree a moderated list will be
much more work, and it has been clear I need MORE work like I need 4
left feet. One of the list's great strengths, I believe, is the
diversity of its subscribers ( also a great strength of both WRITERS
and POLITICS, where I will be during my "week of exile" wherein I
allow Mr. Grossman free rein to gibber whatever drivel he wants, and
I remain silenced on Val-L in attempt to be as a fair as possible to
that which I object to).

I do not have a good answer. A dear friend wrote me tonight and said
"...you can't let one asshole undo all the good you have done..."
He's probably right. But, can I allow a tyranny of the minority to
threaten me, tell me if I don't cease and desist "pushing" the
ephemeral "pragmatism" and "altruism" that he objects to that he'll
keep up the barrage of Nazi propaganda? Who's in charge then? I
contend that I'm not if this threat is allowed to prevail. E-mail is
still in its infancy, we are setting the standards for the future,
and I want Val-L to stand out as a standard of what the best can be.
I know one friend's blunt comment that "assholes are everywhere, and
sooner or later, Val-L had to get one" may be true, but I cannot
accept, nor will I, that the offender in question gets to decide what
I will post, or ... To my blunt way of thinking, that is intellectual
blackmail, and this is a battle of principle that is being "fought"
here.

Well, I'm off to a week of silence (on Val-l at least). I do not like
it, and beg your forgiveness for so much "dirty laundry" aired in
public. I share this post with WRITERS and POLITICS, so they know I'm
coming to bug them while I try to resolve the issue of Mr. Grossman
and the long-term fate of Val-L behind the scenes and via private
e-mail. SG has offended so many on the list that it has come down to
him or me lasting. If you think he should just keep on without
comment from me or anyone else, so be it. I'm not quitting, but
allowing my opponent the WHOLE playing field. What I believe will
occur is a moderated list in the wake of this fiasco - abhorrent to
me, but then so is what's happening now. What do the readers think?
Am I being a prickly ass for letting this person irritate me? Do you
see another way out besides "ignore him, let him say what he wants"
or desubbing him? Any suggestions or comments should be sent to me
personally, not any of the three lists (cdell@vax1.umkc.edu). VMS