From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au (John MAX Skaller)
Subject: Re: men's issues vs. women's issues
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:32:42 GMT

In article <MUFFY.92Jul21122131@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy%remarque.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.berkeley.EDU (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>In article <l6klejINNmu9@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin) writes:
>
>I do not believe that concentrating on issues that specifically affect
>women means that you must ignore the effect of those issues (or the
>possible solutions) on men.

	What such issues exist that *specifically* affect women?

>>It is equally absurd to work to change womens' rights and roles in
>>society without paying any attention to mens' intimately related
>>rights and roles.  Gender justice is as indivisible as any other
>>kind.
>
>That's odd, because it does not seem that gender *IN*justice is
>indivisible.

	It seems to me at the moment *men* have the lousy end of
the stick. But I'm prepared to concede I'm biased :-)

	What if, for a moment, you approach issues ASSUMING that
they affect everyone. For example, perhaps you think childcare
is a womens issue. Now apply the above assumption:

	"It cant be a womens issue, what is it I cant see?
Where is the other, equal and opposite side of things?"

	Well, how about:

	1) For a married couple, childcare allows two workers.
	That increases their *shared* income.

	2) Childcare costs money. That reduces *shared* income.

	3) Childcare benefits business, because it increases the
	supply and quality of workers.

	4) It benefits the country by increasing productivity,
	taxes collected, provides a form of division of labour
	that *also* gives the childcare workers work and income.

	5) It benefits the child, who gets exposed to additional
	adults.

	6) It reduces dependency of single parents on the state,
	by allowing them to work---perhaps in the childcare centre!

	7) It increases efficiency: toys can be shared at such a centre
	more effectively than by parents just buying them and then
	eventually discarding them.

I could go on, but I cant see that childcare is a *womens* issue
at all----it affects the whole community. It is time *MEN* woke
up to this, and it is time women approached the powers that be,
(often men) from tghe point of view that it is a benefit to
everyone and NOT a right of women.

	Another issues that are *womens* issues? Like sexual
harassment! Your kidding if you think *that* one is a womens issue!
IMHO men are currently suffering MUCH worse from the politicisation
and emphasis on it---witness that I and other men attest that
they haven't the faintest idea how to approach a woman
safely (without fear of being accused of harasement)

[Actually, I just say it is affecting men worse to stir: It affects
everyone.]

>
>Muffy
>--
>
>Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
>~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
> sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
> But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
>
>--
>Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
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