HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (yeah paths! - warning: rambling comments)
Reply-To: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Organization: University of Tokyo / Object Technology International
    -0600
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:38:38 GMT
X-Bytes: 1392

In article <9301050219.AA21252@pepvax.pepperdine.edu> kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu writes:

 >What Mark says is true for most people; there is a current dearth of
 >bikepaths. For myself, I commute to work on 'em. 
 >
 >THE POINT:
 >More paths mean more viable destinations; I want more money spent on this.
 >Not that I'll use 'em, but there are more like me out there that will.

True.  Like how many of the roads in existence do you drive on?  I
want the money spent on making paths that are actually ridable.  That
is, which are constructed better than sidewalks.  Sidewalks don't have
to be smooth.  They don't have to avoid sharp blind turns.  Cracks,
bumps, dips, gaps, drains, ... are not problems on sidewalks.  They
are a major problem on bike paths.  We should make the city engineers
ride on some of these things they build.  

I would commute on them if I felt safe.  To be honest I feel safer on
the road where it is smooth, straight, and reasonably predictable.
You try telling me that cars are less predictable than a gaggle of
school kids on foot, skateboard, bike, unicycle, ... or a couple
little old ladies with their dobermans (I was going to say chiwawa but
I don't know how to spell that.  See)

Having said that, there is not a chance in hell of reasonable paths
coming into existance here so I am on the road no matter what.


--
ato de, |m        -- Death by stereo!
QUIT

ato de, |m        -- Death by stereo!
From: armand@camel.West.Sun.COM (Armand Aghabegian)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:24:32 GMT
Reply-To: armand@camel.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: camel

In article FFC@cs.uiuc.edu, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>I'll start...a Pearl Izumi long sleeve Thermasof jersey and a matching
>jacket.
>-Terry

2 Mavic Open4 CD rims built on Ultegra 8 speed hubs, a set of STI levers, and a flite titanium saddle.

Not too bad for Santa Nicki

Armand
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:08:07 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Distribution: na
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

I wrote about the problem of autos double-laning, and Marc San Soucie replied:

> The road's got to be pretty wide for this to be a concern.

Only 16 feet if the traffic is heavy.  Yes, that's a wide lane, but such lanes
exist, and the problem does arise.  Someone else recently posted some figures
about how various lane widths affect traffic flow, and those figures made it
clear that a 16' lane would be ideal for bicyclists with respect to conflicts,
but 14' is vary good.  But cars in city traffic will double-lane in 16' lanes,
so 14' is probably the best choice overall.

> ... The motorist does not expect to find 
> obstacles in the travel lane, even narrow obstacles at the right edge of a 
> wide travel lane.

Au contraire!!!  The travel lane is *exactly* where the motorist is *always*
watching for obstacles!  Especially at the edge -- signs, guardrails, curbs,
bicyclists.  Motorists don't like hitting such objects.  Tends to scratch the
paint.  On the other hand, motorists are much *less* likely to be alert to
objects outside their travel lane, even if said objects are moving.

The commonly quoted statistics relating to bike facilities cover bike lanes as
well as bike paths.  I don't have the stats handy to quote, but they show
generally the same increase in accident rate in lanes as on paths.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: How old is your Peaugeot?
Keywords: Peaugeot bycycle
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:49:33 GMT

In article <kasdorf.726466504@honte> kasdorf@alpha.uleth.ca (Matthew Kasdorf) writes:
>Oops!  Think I spelled it wrong!  I own a Peugeot 10 speed that is at
>least 20 years old....known as a 'super light weight'.  I really enjoy
>riding and maintaining this machine.  Would like some info about Peugeot

I have built up two Peugeot's over the last three or four years. One
was an old water pipe frame that just felt great to ride. Because it
was too small for me I sold it to my brother (at only a $700 loss) and
bought a 1972 PX-10 from a friend. The only original equipment is the
frame now.

I had all of the braze-ons added (except for th front derailleur) and
the rear brake bridge moved down for short reach brakes. Chris Kelly of
Oakland did this as well as repainted the frame in a nice pearlescent
white LPU. I bought a new Prestige fork to get short reach brakes on
the front, allow me to use english threaded headsets and standard stems
and also to get rid of the _way_ too much rake on the original bike.

A friend of mine sold me a Campagnolo Super Record grouppo for a song abd I
bought a maching set of wheels for $75. I also have a set of American Classic
hubs strung with Matrix rims for a super light clincher wheelset.

The bike is stuck with it's 42-53 front chain wheels but the bike climbs
so well that the 13-21 rear is sufficient in the bay area for an old
duffer like me.

On the flats in a fast pack I'm not too wild about it but get it in
the hills and it just climbs like Brandt at 25. :-) I was going to sell it
because I didn't want to try the gearing in the hills but after I did
I discovered I was riding the 42-19 where I normally ride my Basso in
39-19 or 39-21. The Peugeot is two pounds lighter but there must
be some other explaination for the great climbing.
From: ck984@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Petr Podruh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: HELP
Date: 8 Jan 1993 14:17:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


----------
Hi all!
The students (10 person about)from Bohemia
(Czech republic) plan out ride on bycicles from 
Czech (Pilsen) to Italy (Venice) and back.
( Pilsen - Regensburg - Landshut - Haag -
  - Wasserburg - Prien - Sachrang - Kufstein -
  - Brixlegg - Insbruck - Brenner - Bolzano -
  - Trento - Rovereto - Garda - Verona -
  - Vincenza - Padova - Venice)
Dayly reach will be 150 km about.They need
some delivery van for transport of package.
Complete travel will be long 15 day about
in August/September. They want find any free
accomodation, becouse for Czech students are
camping and Youth Hostels in abroad very expansive.
Every sponsor or help is welcomed. The students are
able pay for fuel to automobile.
Please help us!
Thank you very much!

  -- Petr


--------------------------------------------------
Die Studenten (etwa 10 Personen) aus Bohemia planen
im Sommer eine Radreise aus Pilsen (Czech) 
zu Venice (Italy) und zuruck.
( Pilsen - Regensburg - Landshut - Haag -
 - Wasserburg - Prien - Sachrang - Kufstein -
 - Brixlegg - Insbruck - Brenner - Bolzano -
 - Trento - Rovereto - Garda - Verona -
 - Vincenza - Padova - Venezia )
Wir wollen taglich etwa 150 km wegfahren.
Fur unsere Reise suchen wir
den Zieferwagen wo wir Essen, die Gepacke usw. haben
konnen. Diese Raise wollen wir am August/September
unterhalten. Wir suchen die Unterkunft kostenlos
fur eine Nacht, denn fur die tschechische 
Studenten suid Camping und Youth Hostel (Jugendherbergen)
zu teuer .
Jede Hilfe oder Sponsor sind wilkommen.
Wir zahlen das Benzin fur Auto.
Falls, du bis ein Radfahrer und will mitfahren,
schreib auf !

Danke!

-- Petr
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul J. Schinder)
Subject: Re: Consumer product injury rates
Reply-To: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:23:06 GMT

In <19289@mindlink.bc.ca> Richard_Hennick@mindlink.bc.ca (Richard Hennick) writes:

>> Joshua_Putnam writes:
>>
>> As a follow-up to the age-group breakdown of reported cyclist
>> injuries & deaths I posted earlier, I thought it might be
>> interesting, and somewhat amusing, to compare bicycles with other
>> injury-related consumer products.  The following are estimated
>> numbers of injuries in the U.S. in 1989, as prepared by the
>> National Safety Council from Consumer Product Safety Commission
>> data.
>>
>> Injuries  Product category
>>
>> 1,450,421 Stairs, ramps, landings, floors
>>   514,738 Bicycles & accessories
>>   335,038 Cutlery & knives, unpowered
>>   302,190 Beds, mattresses, pillows
>>   131,551 Ladders, stools
>>   106,792 Mopeds, minibikes, ATVs
>>    65,819 Skateboards
>>    71,074 Power home workshop saws
>>    34,949 Television sets
>>    32,670 Paper, cardboard, plastic
>>
>> Of course, none of this says anything about severity of injuries,
>> rate of use of the product, etc., so it's mostly just of trivial
>> interest.

>I know this is the wrong group to be getting into such a discussion...
>but shouldn't chainsaws be in there somewhere?

The two most obvious omissions are automobiles and guns.  Anyone have
any data as to where they would sit on this list?

--
--------
Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Lane width (was Bike Paths)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 11:51:57 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

jciccare@adobe.com (John Ciccarelli) writes:
> Edward Reid writes:
> >Even then, there is generally plenty of space for bicyclists to pass 
> >on the right.
> 
> Avoid passing on the right -- you're asking to be cut off!  [...]
> Pass on the left, or exercise *extreme* caution when making an exception.

Agreed!!!  I was only thinking of the case in which traffic is stalled.  Or
perhaps I wasn't thinking at all.  Even in the stalled case, extreme caution
is mandatory when passing on the right.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:1378 rec.bicycles.misc:1849 rec.bicycles.rides:639
From: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.rides
Subject: Re: Bike Club Survey:Again
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:16:04 GMT
Reply-To: allard@lax.isi.edu (Dennis Allard)
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

Wandervogel Bicycle Touring Association

WBTA is a loose knit group of cyclists based primarily Southern
California.  WBTA members enjoy long fast paced tours varying in length from
one to a few days.  The club has no dues, officiers or official
membership list.  Instead, various volunteers keep the organization
going, mostly through individual efforts aimed at organizing classic
rides.  The rides include the California Land Rush which starts in the
San Francisco Bay Area and makes it to Los Angeles via San Luis Obispo
in two days (approx 215 miles/day), the Tour of Two Forests (218 miles,
12,000 ft, in two parts with a 1 hour lunch break), the Sherman Pass
Challenge (154 miles, 15,000 ft, weather from very cold to sweltering hot),
and other vintage rides.

In Paris-Brest-Paris 1991, WBTA was the only club which had a 100%
completion rate (I recall the number was 23 out of 23 riders).

>>How does your Bike Club:

>> Rate club rides?  i.e. A, B, C, what do the ratings represent,...

Difficult.

>> Allow for differences in rider ability?

Riders of all strengths finish WBTA rides and receive fabulous support
from the ride organizers and other riders.  TOTF has been completed by
riders varying in age from 17 to somewhere in their 70s.  The course
record is 10hours 20minutes by Rob Templin.  A red latern award is
given to the last finisher in before midnight (19 hours), when the
course is officially closed.

> Attract new members and KEEP them.

Through the challenge and success of attempting and completing a
difficult double century.

>>How would you rate YOUR club and what makes it successful.

The total lack of formal structure.  The great rides.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Paragon
From: nasatir@dhvx20.csudh.edu
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:10:12 PST
Organization: CSU, DOMINGUEZ HILLS

I have an old paragon road bike with Zeus
components.  Can anyone help me with the
history.  I believe Larlars Zabroski 
may have built it for Ortha Z.  Perhaps.
Thanks
Dave Nasatir
dhvx20.csudh.edu

z
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:41:35 GMT

armand@camel.West.Sun.COM (Armand Aghabegian) writes:
>In article FFC@cs.uiuc.edu, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>>I'll start...a Pearl Izumi long sleeve Thermasof jersey and a matching
>>jacket.
>>-Terry
>2 Mavic Open4 CD rims built on Ultegra 8 speed hubs, a set of STI levers, and a flite titanium saddle.
>Not too bad for Santa Nicki
>Armand

Wanna trade?
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Consumer product injury rates
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:34:39 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:23:04 GMT
>FROM:   Joshua_Putnam <josh@Happy-Man.com>
>  514,738 Bicycles & accessories
>  335,038 Cutlery & knives, unpowered
>  302,190 Beds, mattresses, pillows
>  131,551 Ladders, stools
>  106,792 Mopeds, minibikes, ATVs
>   65,819 Skateboards
>   71,074 Power home workshop saws
>   34,949 Television sets
>   32,670 Paper, cardboard, plastic

This was a riot. Bicycles *and accessories*!? What's this -- fingers 
pinched in your pump? And 300k plus from *bedding*? How, how, how?

--Michael Smith
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Consumer product injury rates
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:41:14 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> >  514,738 Bicycles & accessories
> >  302,190 Beds, mattresses, pillows
> 
> This was a riot. Bicycles *and accessories*!? What's this -- fingers 
> pinched in your pump?

Twisted your ankle from stepping on your headlight?  Attacked by a gang
wielding bicycle chains?  Dogs attacked by bicyclists using their
tire-pumps?  (Are these statistics restricted to humans being the injured
parties?)

> And 300k plus from *bedding*? How, how, how?

I'd guess that this is mostly due to fires, from now-dead idiots
smoking cigarettes in bed.  In other words, I'd suspect that the
data collection process tried to fit reality into inappropriate
categories, and mistakenly attributed the root cause of many of
these accidents.

> > The following are estimated numbers of injuries in the U.S. in 1989,
> > as prepared by the National Safety Council from Consumer Product
> > Safety Commission data.

Do you know if this is restricted to accidental injuries, or do
they include injuries inflicted deliberately?

> Of course, none of this says anything about severity of injuries,
> rate of use of the product, etc., so it's mostly just of trivial
> interest.

Also, the statistics are probably severely skewed by the fact that the
reporting agency chose not to include cars, motorcycles, guns, alcohol,
tobacco, and other drugs as accident-causing categories of consumer
products.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Doug.Landauer@sun.com | "Wow, look at the grass stains on my skin.  I say, if
 SUNW[STE]->SunPro::  | your knees aren't green by the end of the day, you
  Languages.IPE(C++); | ought to seriously re-examine your life." -- Calvin
From: lynnef@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Lynne Axel Fitzsimmons)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:08:52 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


(For Hanukkah actually...) The 6 watt Vistalight headlight.  A *Major*
improvement over the Cateye Halogen.  (The purchaser tells me it was
cheaper than buying the Turbo Cat mod kit).
--
Lynne Fitzsimmons		lynnef@tekig1.pen.tek.com

"Second star on the right and straight on till morning" - Barrie, Pan, Kirk
From: robishaw@asteroid.lrmsc.loral.com (Gary Robishaw x5960)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Dilemma
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:19:06 GMT
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers

Sounds to me like you did the right thing. This has been one of my pet peeves
ever since I started commuting. My strategy is to hug the right as close as I
can and force him/her into the traffic. I even had a head on with another
rider (it wasn't that bad since we both slowed to shout at one another).

It seems that these people demand that you get out of their way and will go to
any length to take the curb side. Apparently, we are dealing with a fear of
cycling.

I guess we just have to deal with it as best we can, and try to educate those
who chose to ride the wrong way.

Gary
-- 
Gary Robishaw          "He has a constitutional right to be not guilty."
robishaw@monolith.lrmsc.loral.com       Steven Barrucci after John Gotti's
408/432-5960                          sentencing.
Usnail -- 3151 Zanker Rd. San Jose, Ca. 95134-1928
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: On nicities of bicycling.
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:04:00 GMT

I'm going to rearrange this article a bit:

In article <uf9eu3g@zola.esd.sgi.com>, dps@delhi.esd.sgi.com (D.P. Suresh) writes:
 
> I would prefer to take some general advice, if any, on
> 
>       * How to commute with bicycle
> For instance, changing from the bike lane that is on the right most
> end of the road to the left most end to accomodate a left turn as
> easily as a car.

There are two ways to do this, both legal.  The best way is to pretend
you are a car.  Look over your left shoulder for a gap in traffic.  
Signal by sticking your left arm out horizontally *well before* the
intersection.  Try to make eye contact with the drivers.  Move to the
left-turn lane as though you were a car.  Your hand signal will inform
drivers of your intention, and will make you look "bigger" to them so
that they will be more likely to see you.

If you are too nervous to do this, or if you have many lanes to cross
and no traffic gaps, you may cross the intersection in the bike lane 
(or at the right edge of the road), and turn left there to cross with 
opposing traffic.

> 	* Getting back home at night.

Get lights and use them.  The easiest thing to do is get the Cateye Halogen
headlight and Cateye taillight -- they cost about $12 each -- and plenty
of batteries.  They don't provide a lot of illumination, but they will
enable you to be seen.  A headlight alone is sufficient in the eyes of the
law, but I don't ride without a taillight as well.

> Just this new year I made the holy (non-polluting) decision to commute
> by bicycle to my work place. And keeping up with the decision (with utmost
> difficulty) I bicycled to my work place On monday 4th 1993.
> It was not a pleasant one.

May I make a suggestion, not intended to be derogatory?  If you really
hate riding, find another way to commute in an environmentally friendly
manner.  Carpool or take the bus.  Don't make yourself miserable.  I
hope that you discover that commuting by bicycle can be fun, a time-saver
(combining work-out and work), and earth-friendly as well!

Ilana (who commuted by bike today, too)

-- 
/\    "I'm only a human girl person.  I ain't always perfect."--Rambling Rose
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:07:00 GMT

Edward Reid (ed@titipu.resun.com) writes:

> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:

> > Automotorists tend to consider the space to the right of the centerline and
> > to the left of the shoulder to be theirs to use as they choose. If there is
> > no painted line at the right border of the motor portion of the travel
> > lane, an automotorist is likely to consume the entire space.

> Good.  That's what we want them to do.  If they stay at one edge, then they
> start making two lanes out of one.  Once they do that, you do indeed have a
> nasty situation.

The road's got to be pretty wide for this to be a concern.


> One of the problems with painted bike lanes is specifically than motorists do
> *not* regard them as usable lanes.  They make right turns from the left or
> center lanes rather than moving to the right.  They tend to ignore traffic in
> the bike lane rather regarding it as part of the overall traffic pattern, thus
> decreasing the bicyclists' effective visibility, which I believe we all agree
> is dangerous.

Here is where we disagree. Cars turn in front of bicycles regardless of 
striping, for sure. But I believe the presence of the stripe increases the 
visibility of the cyclist, and the absence of the stripe decreases it. This 
is due to the motorist's tendency to consider the travel lane to be the 
exclusive property of the automobile. The motorist does not expect to find 
obstacles in the travel lane, even narrow obstacles at the right edge of a 
wide travel lane.

Yes, maybe the statistics suggest that problems associated with this
distinction don't occur frequently enough to worry about. I'd buy that if I
could see the statistics. I don't think I've seen a study yet of the
difference in auto-bike incidents between wide unstriped and wide striped
roads.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
Subject: Cycling club near Albany, NY?
Summary: Is there one?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:46:16 GMT

I was wondering if there is a cycling club in the capital district in New
York state... If you have any info about one, I would greatly appreciate
some e-mail...

Thanks in advance...
-Matt
From: ovr@lk-hp-13.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Turning left (Denmark)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 02:55:46 GMT
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-13.hut.fi

Does anybody know the rationale behind the Danish law that forbids the
vehicular left turn for cyclists, making only the box turn legal?
Apart from being discriminatory, it just doesn't seem to make sense,
at least for roads without "facilities".
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi