HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:38:57 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: parental motivation

Hear, hear, Bill.  Different emphasis, but much more realistic than most
posts have been.

"It [IS] time to forget about the bald generalizations and remember that
each set of parents is making a decision about a particular child with
particular characteristics."

Also, it time to realize that "experts" are human beings too.  Sometimes
they don't know what they need to to help effectively at the moment in
time when the indormation is needed, sometimes one is less competent
than he/she should be, but VERY rarely is one malevolent or evil.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:52:00 -0700
From:         MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: hello - bio

hi, Barry.
My name is Michelle Muth.  I just recently joined Deaf-L.  I wanted to note
about something...  I am curious... Why do u hate politicians??  I know not
all of them break promises.  I, myself, want to be a Senator someday. Despite
of my deafness.  I know for sure that I will not break any promises.

PErha

xx  Perhaps, you have had bad experience in your country??

I know here in the USA it is dirty business... but, hey somebody's gotta do it!!
well, take care...
michelle
From: MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: hype or realism
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:58:00 GMT
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I agree with Esther Paris!  Esther, why don't you and I run together for office
sometime in the future?  In fact, I only got 16 years to meet the requirements
of running for office...you and I can prove that DEAF people can do ANYTHING,
can't we, Esther?

Michelle Muth, Univ of Colorado @ Boulder, Boulder, CO...
From: XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Omer Zak)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Resume writing
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:57:16 GMT
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Hi everyone,
While splitting hairs over the meaning of being handicapped, and arguing
about the difference between 'differently abled' and 'differently disabled',
someone (could it be you, Lew Golan?) reminded us of the skeptical people
of the land - employers.

Few times in my life I was looking for a job.  In those cases, I updated my
resume.  My resume had an unusual section:  what do I need from my
prospective employer as an accommodation to my deafness.  The section listed
things such as PC+modem and/or FAX machine, notetaking during meetings and
alerting me whenever there is a voice alert.

In Israel, prospective employees are asked to give basic information about
their military service, which means for me that I have to tell that I didn't
serve in the army due to my deafness (my classification in the army is 21,
along with brain damaged persons, blind etc.  100% physically fit get
classification 97, the joke is that the remaining 3 points were lost due
to circumcision at age of 8 days).

My theory is that just as employers use resumes to classify (before
inviting them to interview) potential employees - I can and perhaps should
use my resume as a device to weed out employers who are unable to
accommodate my special needs even if they have to pass up the opportunity
to employ someone who finished 4th in his class (which contained more
than 200 students).

Some people disagreed with me but I did get jobs (sometimes after long
search).  And in all those jobs people were willing to take into account
my special needs (more or less).

Now that I told my story, what were your experiences in job seeking and
how much have you been telling your prospective employers in initial
resume?

By the way I noticed two curious coincidences:
1. If, during the initial interview, I was asked about my deafness and
   how I coped with it (when I already had references from previous jobs
   who could be asked for their experience with me) - I didn't get the job.
   In all jobs which I got, I was asked questions about electronics and/or
   software development.
2. Head hunters never obtained for me an interview.

                                                   --- Omer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:07:30 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Freud?

Bill --

>      At any rate, it is a mute point since no one I know is part of the
> ASL culture

     Was this a Freudian slip (did you mean "moot"?) or an intentional pun?

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: cclark@NRI.RESTON.VA.US (Cynthia Clark)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Biography
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:53:59 GMT
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===========  BIOGRAPHY of Cynthia Clark  =====================


NAME:  Cynthia Clark
AGE:   35

TWO OCCUPATIONS:

  1)  Techncial Assistant for the Communication and
      Information Technology firm  (CNRI)

  2)  Part-time Instructor in the area of
      communications; such as Storytelling in ASL and
      Accent in Fingerspelling Art

MOVIE INSPIRE ME THE MOST:  "Driving Miss Daisy" - a truly powerful movie.

BOOKS I TELL OTHERS TO READ:

1) "The Firm"
2) "The Gift of Magi" by O. Henry
3) "The Lady or the Tiger"

HOBBIES:  talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk
          e-mail conversations, communications,
          public speaking, TV host talk show,
          facilitator, moderator, reading, sleeping,
          BOATING (motor boat), playing cards, writing,
          sewing, cooking, traveling, little tennis,
          little golf, little racquetball.

WISH TO BE ABLE TO FIND TIME TO DO:  take flying lessons,
                                     write a few books,
                                     host more TV talk shows,
                                     driving fast cars,
                                     become a star,
                                     host dinner parties,
                                     the interior decorations,
                                     learn real estate investments

HEARING STATUS:  Deaf as a stone - deaf since birth.
                 I really don't miss any music anyway
                 because I have "my own music" in my
                 own brain.

COMMUNICATION SKILLS:  People say I speak rather articulately
                       especially as a deaf person.  I happen to
                       speak better than to lip-read others.
                       I can lipread but I am not the best
                       lip-reader.

THE WORST THING ABOUT DEAFNESS IS:  Rejection.

THE BEST THING ABOUT DEAFNESS IS:  Sleep peacefully without any
                                   disturbing sounds. Thank God.

IF I COULD HEAR FOR THE FIRST TIME,
THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS:  go to the drug store purchasing the
                                ear plugs trying to turn it off somehow


FAVORITE SAYING:  +----------------------------------------------+
                  |  "Don't ever try to teach a pig to sing: it  |
                  |   wastes your time and it annoys the pig."   |
                  +----------------------------------------------+

   and   "Be Yourself ! "


WHY DID I JOIN DEAF-L:    I am really interested in the area of
                          communications, information and networking.
                          I really enjoy doing this very much.


QUESTIONS:  Tell me about yourself...   Why did you join DEAF-LIST ?
            Where do you live ?  (I live in Reston, Virginia
            about 25 minutes drive to Gallaudet University)
            What do you think of my biography?





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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:59:54 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Hype

>  "...deaf people can do anything that hearing people
>  can do...except hear."

     Either this means that a deaf person can be:

     a TDD relay operator
     a music critic
     a speech therapist
     a sonarman
     a piano tuner
     a movie sound technician
     a television studio cameraman
     a television studio floor director
     a recording studio mixer
     a courtroom stenographer
     a simultaneous translator at the United Nations
     a voice-to-ASL interpreter
     a taxi/ambulance/whatever dispatcher
     an air traffic controller

     ...or it's hype.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: pj_pycro@csd.uwe.ac.uk (PJ Pycroft)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: politicians
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:11:38 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Bosco Keown (KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM) wrote:
: Ref:  Paul Pycroft's posting of Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:29:17 GMT
: 
: Paul writes:
: 
: >In this country, there are deaf person who doing well in business world,
: >directors of industrial companies and even showbusiness and whatever you
: >name it....
: 
: 
: Come on, Paul!  The situation is not as rosy as you make it out to be.
: Who are the "directors of industrial companies" you are talking about?
: I should like to know who they are so I can see how they got where they
: are, otherwise I'm wasting my time here. :-)
: 
: 
: Bosco.
: 
: John Bosco Keown,
: CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
: IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
: Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
: Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET


if you say so.......... I can't be bothered on what you said!!!!!

Paul
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:06:00 +1300
From:         IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Subject:      politicians

Subj:	RE: hello - bio

Paul says:-
P> Perhaps Barry would like to join U.K. University and gives his view...

No thanks, mate. I cannot afford the flight to the UK. Anyway, becoming a
politician is quite off my career path. However, I would be interested to hear
of any deaf person doing well in the business world, e.g. property investors,
directors of industrial companies. I have never heard of any deaf directors or
senior employees in NZ.

Michelle Muth says:-
MM>Political Science and Pre-Law.  I suggest that you, Barry, move to USA to
MM>test your political rights, I think u will be more satisfied here.

No thanks, Michelle. I am quite happy here in Kiwi Land. When I visited the
United States in May, I noticed a big contrast: I saw a lot of expression of
freedom in the US - Venice Beach displays, roadside signs, all sorts of
magazines AND the sight of drunks and homeless, especially in Los Angeles and
New York City. I couldn't really say those luckless folk have freedom. With
respect to Americans (i.e. no insult intended), perhaps the only difference
from communism is that money controls freedom in the USA.

By contrast, I have NEVER seen a homeless person on a street in NZ. I've seen
one or two rubbish rummagers, but beggars in NZ? Unconceivable!

I doubt if most deaf people in NZ understood the referendum on electoral
reform. Did the uni people tell you in politicial studies that politics is about
compromise? Not breaking any promises is very difficult. Politicial situations
are very changeable and a politician can get caught in many dilemmas. I mean,
the reality of politics (in NZ, at least) is very different from the "not
break any promises" ideal.

MM> I suggest that you, Barry, move to USA to
MM> test your political rights, I think u will be more satisfied here.

"Political rights" (see above) - I suppose you mean the kind of liberty in USA
that I noticed when I visited the States?

Barry Kirkland.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:10:45 CST
From:         Roy Miller <GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Personal Attacks

I would like to again remind readers of DEAF-L of a simple rule
of etiquette in use here on the list.  It is perfectly acceptable
to disagree with the position taken by anyone on the list.  Active,
well reasoned, and informative argument is more than welcome!
However, there is a difference between attacking what a person says
because you disagree with their ideas, and attacking the person.
Suggesting that someone is a "dumb woman" is attacking the woman
and not her ideas.  Suggesting that someone is "ignorant,"
"stupid," or "idiotic" because you disagree with them is attacking
the person and not their ideas.  Please everyone, refrain from
making personal attacks on DEAF-L.  If you have personal criticism
that you feel compelled to make of others, take it off-line!  Your
cooperation on this point would be greatly appreciated.

-- Roy Miller
   Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
   (ge0013@siucvmb)
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Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:04:00 +1300
From:         IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Subject:      Re: politicians

Hello Bryce and Paul,
I have to say that I agree with Bryce. But Paul, if you know of a deaf tycoon
or someone like that, then we'd love to have you say who it is!
Perhaps the (realistic) way to become a deaf owner or executive of a company
is to set it up as a paper company(!!)
Somebody asked me for my interests: I don't really have any hobbies. I like
swimming, rugby, skiing, cricket and volleyball. In one or two years' time I
will be a double degree (one degree with honours) graduate. I am bonded to work
for the tax department in the data processing area when I finish Uni next year.
That is for one or two years depending on how much funds the tax dept gives me.
I might go into the property business which Dad and my brother Mark are in when
I graduate.
So you all have a nice day - it is a *VERY NICE* day out here.
Barry Kirkland.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:14:24 EST
From:         "Stephen J. Kotchen" <CASK@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Anti-Deaf perspective vomit

> |>
> |>  Excuse me... Handicap Digest?
> |>
> |>  I, for one, do *NOT* consider my deafness as an handicap.
> |>
> |>  I just can't hear, but that doesn't stop me from using the Relay...
> |>  Just a few modifications, like TDD, wirtten communciation,m interpreters,
> |>
> |>  Is *THAT* handicapped?
>
>      Yes.
>
> |> "Deaf people can do anything except hear" - I. King Jordan
>
>    More tautologies:
>    Blind people can do anything but see.
>    Legless people can do anything but walk.
>
> --
> Bill Peter
> Physics Department
> Ben-Gurion University, Beersheva, Israel.

Bill,

  I absolutely, without questions, agree that Deaf can do anything, but
hear.  Based on my experiences at Liberty University, I've been trying
to participate with sports such as Football, Baseball, or Softball.  The
Hearing society told me that I cannot play since I cannot hear.  This is
ridiculous.  It sounds like that hearing people can play football,
baseball, or softball with blindfold.  Why don't you, Bill, Heather, or
anyone that agree with them, put the newspaper on the windshield and try
to drive, depending on your ears??  Didn't you miss the football game
last night?   There was a deaf football player, first string, for Denver
Broncos. His last name is Walker.  What do you mean that deaf cannot do
anything?   You, your people with this idea, has done excellent job to
encourage Deaf people to work harder to prove that you are wrong like
Thomas Edison inventing light bulb, Beethoven's excellent pieces, and
,which I believe, more deaf people did excellent job.  You and your
people still believe that deaf cannot do anything.  There is also
deaf politican involve in House of England.  Maybe you should check
under the rug to see if your brain is there.  When will you and your
people finally get up from your ass and look under the rug?  Pull
your sense together.

    For example, when I was in Liberty University, one woman came up to
me and ask me "How can you understand people sign in television?"  My
jaw dropped to the floor, and I couldn't believe that hearing and dumb
people like Bill, Heather, and that woman get that kind of idea.  You
hearing people who called us Deaf and Dumb  look at what I have just
told you.  I hope you get this through your head someday, maybe in year
2020.  Good Luck!

-Stephen
From: /PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: TTY
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:39:52 GMT
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 <"HGJC-5453-7815/36"*/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.c
 om>

The person's name is Ken Glickman (not Glicksman) and the name of the company
is Microflip Inc. and the product is FullTALK.  The tel # is (301)262-6020
(Voice/TDD).

Another source is Phone-TTY in New Jersy.  The product is called Phone-TTY
CM4.

Email address is:
/c=us/admd=telemail/o=deaftek/pn=lee.brody/@sprint.com
Phone : (201)489-7889 (Voice) or (201)489-7890 (TDD)

Brenda Monene
/c=us/admd=telemail/o=deaftek/dd.un=b.monene/@sprint.com
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:32:48 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: parental motivation

Sorry, forgot my name again on that last post.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:57:58 -0500
From:         "Mark J. Dessert" <11MDESSERT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Intervention

Subj:   Intervention

Date: 12 Oct 1992 00:48:48 -0400
From: CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
> Is there some
>sort of hierarchy for a new parent to go through?  I'd rather refer a new
>parent to this 'organizational' road map than spout my own experiences as
>a deaf oral adult, neither do I want to 'refer' these parents to reactionary
>cochlear implant advocates or ASL "native language" advocates (mind you,
>no offense to these on Deaf-L!) but perhaps to meet other parents who have
>gone this way before?

>What do you look for when you want to do an early intervention in an infant
>who is profoundly deaf at age 1 2 or 3?  Do you want to choose a good
>kindergarten program, or do your own language acquisition schooling at home?
>What utensils do you use?  What Dr. Spock "baby book bibles" do you use for
>deaf kids?
>



Hi, My name is Mark Dessert, I am a student at Gallaudet University, I
recently joined this conference and have yet to submit a bio.  (Will
follow up soon.)  I just wanted to offer a suggestion that might be
helpful to you.  If You write to the National Information Center on
Deafness they will provide you with the type of information that you
seek.  They are a clearing house for any and all types of information
related to deafness and I think you will find that what you receive will
be an unbiased answer to whatever question you ask; without being told
that one philosophy is better than another.  They can help your friends
make the best choice they can for their child.

N.I.C.D.
800 Florida Ave NE
Washington DC 20002

Good luck
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:51:33 -0400
From:         "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      The Guinness Book of Lipreading Feats. NOT!
              8 Oct 1992 15:44:18 BST <9210081456.AA29577@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

    Bosco says:
    Anyway, last time George Bush said "Read My Lips", more than 35
    percent obliged at the polls...either they could lipread, or they
    *thought* he said "No New Taxes". :-)

Years ago, when Reagan gave one of his State of the Union speeches to
Congress, some TV-news reporters noticed Vice-President Bush and
House Speaker "Tip" O'Neill talking to each other behind Reagan's back.
What, they wondered, were they saying to each other?  They took the
videotape to some people in the Chicago Hearing Society, and asked
if anyone there could lipread the conversation.  Alas, because the
Shrub was extremely difficult to lipread, because he keeps his lips
very flat while talking.  This tendency may have something to do
with his former job as Director of the Central Intelligence Agency.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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From: pj_pycro@csd.uwe.ac.uk (PJ Pycroft)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: hello - bio
Date: 12 Oct 92 08:50:14 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Ishbel Donkin (ishbeld@CIX.COMPULINK.CO.UK) wrote:
: Michelle/Barry -
: How about Barry heading for the UK and getting into Parliament!  We are
: lacking a deaf Member of Parliament now that Jack Ashley has retired
: from the House of Commons and moved to the House of Lords.  He will,
: of course, continue to work for deaf and other disabled and
: disadvantaged people from there (he's profoundly deaf and had been an MP
: for around 25 years, being re-elected several times by his constituency).
: There's also a notable woman MP who is severely deaf and very much in
: the public eye for her political campaigns and not only for the deaf
: community.  There are also one or two other deaf people who are into
: politics at local level in Great Britain.
: 
: Ishbel.

Also in addition, there are some profoundly deaf councillor's in some
area and been elected in number of times. This also applied to any
member of the public who wish to become a MP - they (deaf person) can
do that.... as long as they have some idea in their mind then they
can to the public via interpreter or whatever....

Plus... there are deaf person who are activaly in Politics in various
University and Colleges... Once there, is a Deaf person who is a
President of the Union in the University (not a deaf university!!!)..
Perhaps Barry would like to join U.K. University and gives his view...

I'm into Master degree in Parallel Computer Systems...

Paul

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