HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sowings@ocf.berkeley.edu (Sanford Owings)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Help mapping sea squares?
Date: 14 Sep 1992 01:55:43 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

Hello.  I am sort of new to the whole game of Empire and I just have a 
simple question or two.

1)   I have the knack of moving on land and mapping things out and 
	exploring, but how do I do this at sea?  I know how to 
	"lookout" from a ship and see any adjacent land squares,
	but none of this shows up on my realm maps (if it's even in
	a realm).  So my question is, how do I map sea sectors?

2)   Also, it seems that at random times, I lose 10 BTU's.  I know
	that I didn't invoke any costly commands (unless "nation"
	costs 10), but those BTU's just fly away.  Is this a problem 
	with my code???

Help!

           //  	Internet:  sowings@ocf.berkeley.edu | 
   +      ||________________________________        |  
  +|%%%%%%++________________________________>	    | 
   +      ||   		Prince Valiant		    | 
           \\  	 	Sanford Owings 	 	    | 	There can be only one.
From: griffith@xcf.Berkeley.EDU (Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: This recent BS ... and a new top 10 list
Keywords: Not another top 10 list ...  :(
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:34:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep11.160000.3053@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge) writes:
>1.  Taliesyn   (non-american ... but will be after the invasion :))

Non-American?  He's Canadian.  Same thing.

			Jim

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Griffith  /--OO--\     | Two great powers are on our side: the power of
 ...!ucbvax!scam!griffith  | Love and the power of Arithmetic.  These two are
BEWARE BATS WITHOUT NOSES! | stronger than anything else in the world.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:29:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.124227.17609@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, laitinen@cae.wisc.edu (Tero Mikko Laitinen) writes:
|> In article <36989@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
|> >
|> >If someone
|> >puts up a game that caters to US players and is *worth* winning then call
|> >us....(these games that wimp-out in some way to help the non-US players
|> >are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
|> >to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
|> >this topic).
|> >
|> 
|> Are you saying that if the best two players happen to be yanks, all the games
|> should be played with their rules and according to their schedule!?  Besides,

I think his point was that nearly all of the top players are from the US.  What
percentage of the top 10 would you say is from the US?  I'd say at least 80%.
We have to be quite general here when we talk about the 'top-10.'  The last
thing r.g.e needs is a "who exactly is in the top ten" thread.

|> I don't quite see, how these 'wimp' games help the non-US players.  I thought
|> that rotating updates are the same to everyone: as many at the daytime as at 
|> the night time.  Of course, if your idea of fair match is killing out all

The euro game had only one update per day, so it wasn't really possible to
be fair to both US and european players.

|> european players because they can't catch any updates but you can, that
|> sounds slightly odd.  But who am I, an arrogant european bastard, to critizise

I don't think that 'strategy' of killing european players is very widely
used.  It's too dependent upon country placement and there aren't enough
euro players to make it worth it to sign up for a game based on that.

Perhaps someone should hold a tag-team match or something (USA vs. the rest
of the world) with, say, 3-5 players per side.  I think I like this thread...
I see 'Dream Team' off on the horizon....

|> allmighty Redline.
|> 
|> 	mikko
|> 	Sioux


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
(a.k.a. Ultima)
-----
From: greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu (Karl S. Hagen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Labor Day Blitz .... Last Post Before Game Starts
Date: 7 Sep 1992 05:54:01 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cis.ksu.edu

Howdy,
      Last minute post for the Labor Day blitz to start Monday
   Sept. 7th at 12 noon CST.

       Updates the first hour are every 5 minutes ... and then will
   be evvvery 10 minutes after that.  There will be a break for dinner
   at 8pm CST.  This break will be 30 min. - If people want it longer
   then we can go on it in the game.

    The open slots in the game are country names 11 - 30.
   The representatives are the same as the country #.


            HOST:  champ.ksu.ksu.edu
	    PORT:  1617


Game hours are: 00:00-03:00 12:00-24:00
The current time is Sat Sep  5 15:21:56.
BSD Empire 1.1 patch level 5 (KSU distribution 1.04)

The following parameters have been set for this game:
World size is 128 by 64.
There can be up to 32 countries.
By default, countries use their own coordinate system.

An Empire time unit is 1000 seconds long.
An update consists of 45 empire time units.
Each country is allowed to be logged in 1000 minutes a day.
It takes 25.00 civilians to produce a BTU in one time unit.

A non-aggi, 100 fertility sector can grow 0.12 food per etu.
1000 civilians will harvest 1.3 food per etu.
1000 civilians will give birth to 5.0 babies per etu.
1000 uncompensated workers will give birth to 2.5 babies.
In one time unit, 1000 people eat 1.0 units of food.
1000 babies eat 12.0 units of food becoming adults.

Banks pay $100.00 in interest per 1000 gold bars per etu.
1000 civilians generate $2.33, uncompensated workers $1.78 each time unit.
1000 active military cost $83.33, reserves cost $8.33.

Happiness p.e. requires 1 happy stroller per 5000 civ.
Education p.e. requires 1 class of graduates per 4000 civ.
Happiness is averaged over 48 time units.
Education is averaged over 192 time units.
The technology/research boost you get from your allies is 33.33%.
Nation levels (tech etc.) decline 1% every 96 time units.
Tech Buildup is limited to logrithmic growth (base 2.00) after 0.75.

Options enabled in this game:
        ALLYHARBOR, SHOWPLANE, DROPANY, REJECTS, BMAP, AUTONAV, SCUTTLE, 
        CONVASAT, ORBIT, ABM, GRIND, PINPOINTMISSILE, SAIL, SHIPNAMES, 
        NONUKESUB, BETTERABM, RANGEEDIT, MISSDEF, SHIPSAM, BIND, 
        DEMANDUPDATE, UPDATESCHEDULING, MERC, TACARGO, PLIMIT, BETTERARMOR, 
        NEWSUBS, NOMOBCOST, REREAD

The person to annoy if something goes wrong is Karl S. Hagen
		(greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu).
You can get your own copy of the source by ftp'ing to:
	 ftp.cis.ksu.edu ()

*******************************************************************************
****     Karl S. Hagen          Student - Kansas State University          ****
****     greyhelm@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu      greyhelm@matt.ksu.ksu.edu        ****
****     Moria Archives Manager           Empire Archive Manager           ****
*******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: slvqd@mars.ee.usu.edu (Jeff Argast)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: CHAINSAW 2.0
Keywords: empire
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:01:16 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

Where is the Chainsaw 2.0 code? 

Thanks,

Jeff
From: rob@theo.ucsb.edu (Robert Buckles)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Ancient Empires?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:15:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

In article <92255.153435HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET> HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET writes:
>
>I would be interested to know if there are any versions of Empire
>being run which use   medieval or ancient economic, political, and
>military models, instead of twentieth century.
>
>Has anyone heard of such a variation on the game?

	The only game like this that I know of would be Defender of
Rome, but I don't think there is an X version.  I have played it on the PC
(may god help me), great game.

But I would also like to know if someone plans on hosting a game such
as HISWJH speaks of.  Get rid of planes and most ships.  You'll have to
use things such as cavalry, legions, siege engines, etc.  Perhaps
cannon at VERY high tech...

Rob
Shockwave
.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Subject: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Organization: the Elves of Briton
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:04:30 GMT

zog@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer) writes:
>Top ten players from KSU (Kansas State University)
>1. ZOG (no explaination necassary)
>2. Greyhelm 
>3. Scum(note not THE_SCUM
>4. BattleAxe/ToyLand 
>5. Cron

*sigh* top 10 lists? again?
I think actually that they do serve a purpose.

they let the newer players know who to avoid.

 but I think the term "list" is a misnomer, as it implies order.
 meaning that a player at a certain position is better then all others
 beneath him/her. whereas it may be the case that player a is better then
 player b is better then player c is better then player a.

tied for first:
   Afrika Korps
   Atlantis
   Barbary Coast
   Dorsai
   EVIL_EMPIRE
   Fodderland
   Graahoeje
   Guzzer
   Himmel
   Lersing
   Mirkwood
   Redline
   Resvon
   Revelstone
   Vulgaria

tied for second:
   Aquitaine
   Dweebland
   Finland
   Gunjin
   Mithrilien
   Park_Place
   Suboceana


tied for third:
   Albania	
   Ministry/DAK
   Moonshae
   Negativland
   The_Scum
   TOG
   Temekula

promising newcomers:
   Dreadlands
   Kryptycythys
   Trauma_Ward
   Angband
   Zog

perpetual fodders:
   Soxland
   Orleanais
   Baldric
   Stuart_Hall

are these lists accurate?    no, not at all.
I'll probably change my mind in 5 minutes.

And surely I've forgotten some people.
like JustUs, but I've never played with him.

Where do I place myself?
in with the promosing newcomers.

after all, I'm still a wee little newbie, aren't I? :*)



Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:26:28 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BuLECn.H4I@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>>elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:

>>>perpetual fodders:
>>>   Soxland
>>>   Orleanais
>>>   Baldric
>>>   Stuart_Hall

>>Don't forget:
>>Ansalon

>I haven't.

Ooh, ooh....  This is the *second* time that you have quoted my article and
then *CHANGED* what I wrote.  I didn't say "Don't forget: Ansalon".  Why
would I label myself a perpetual fodder for you?

I said "Don't forget:  Krikkit".  That's you, if you don't remember.  Please
try to maintain some semblance of accuracy when you quote me.


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:53:06 GMT
Organization: the Elves of Briton

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>
>>perpetual fodders:
>>   Soxland
>>   Orleanais
>>   Baldric
>>   Stuart_Hall
>
>Don't forget:
>
>Ansalon

I haven't.

oh, and I need to add "Land_Of_Faa" to that list.

*--*
Da Elf

>
>-- 
>Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
>Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
>Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
>ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor)
Subject: Replacement wanted for gatech game
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:13:43 GMT

Number 2 power in the gatech game is up for sale, due to frustration over
a double update that starved many sectors (I was already short on time).
Lots of land and tech, but a bit short on development.  One island of about
150 sectors, one beachhead on a neighbor.

Send email to get country, rep, host, and port.

-- 
*********************************************************
*From the files of Russ Taylor (rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu)*
* This .sig protected by Siguard 9.2 and VirusKill 2.5  *
*********************************************************
From: camelsho@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT
Date: 11 Sep 1992 11:53:58 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kitty.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <18qib8INN2ma@festus.ksu.ksu.edu> zog@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer) writes:
>Top ten players from KSU (Kansas State University)
>
>1. ZOG (no explaination necassary)
Ho! Ho! Hah! Hah!

>2. Greyhelm (After all he is my roommate and I would like him to run another game)
You have got to be kidding.  greyhelm is just a GEET.

>3. Scum(note not THE_SCUM)/Bampthville/./DEAFmute  (well hes sitting beside me now
Hmmmmmmm....well, you do have a limited group for selections.

>4. BattleAxe/ToyLand (Hes new, very little promise but I would like him to set me up with a friend of his)
Zoggy is going through the horny stage most people have right after puberty.

>5. Cron (He has alot on his hands, but hes a sucker)  **hi cron**
Tee Hee.

>6. a Whole bunch of other Fodders
How True.

>7. narnia  (not not Narnia) ((also Note he is very good but doesnt have lots of time
>   on his hands to play a regular game so he gets last.)
Oh, C'mon, at least include heinlein@ksuvm.ksu.edu in with the fodders.

>well that is all
Well, it shouldn't be.  What about Eireland????  Until his recent relocation,
I would have put him near the top, if not the top.

>zog out
Yeah, out of his mind.

"Its been four whole days!" zog@matt.ksu.ksu.edu explaining his rush to
the window whenever a female went by.  Horny little spurt, eh?

Is it true that zog is coruling a country somewhere with Lersing?
(cackle)

camel
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds)
Subject: What I'd like to see "units" do
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:05:03 GMT

    This is the sort of thing I'd like to see possible, and it seems
like having the potential of a military unit be intrinsic rather than
a function of the history of the front lines (how much mobility they
have) could produce it.

Key
B - Bobsland developed sector
b - Bobsland sector with 1 civ in it

A - Al-town developed sector
a - Al-town sector with 1 civ in it


Bob's 100 mil army      Al's 100 mil army
      |                       |
      v                       v
. . B B B b b b b b b b b a A A A . .

    Bob does not have an advantage. They both have the same sized
armies in the middle of their population centres. A few barron sectors
with hermits claiming to be Sons of Bob don't change things.


Bob's army on       Al's sneak invasion
 shore patrol         army
    |                   |
    v                   v
. . B B B B B B B B B B A A A A A A A A A A . .

    Bob is going to lose a few sectors to that rat Al while he brings
his army around. It was on the wrong side of his country, dammit.
From: mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: markets
Keywords: euro, market
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:23:59 GMT
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon9.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep8.190823.29010@athena.mit.edu> tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.141857.20839@mlb.semi.harris.com>, cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com (Corey Gehman) writes:
>|>                                                      Why
>|> not make putting things up for sale cost mobility?  That would solve this
>|> complaint and also make some sense.
>|> 
>|> | Corey Gehman                       |
>|> | cgehman@harris.mlb.semi.harris.com | The Amiga is dead.  Long live Sun.
>|> | cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com   |
>
>
>Perhaps you shouldn't be able to sell from occupied sectors at all -- even if
>you do have military control.
>
>-----
>T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
>-----

How about making a combination of these two ideas? For a sale to occur between 
two countries, there must be some path between the point of sale and the point
of receipt that includes only sectors of one, sectors of the other, or sea
sectors (and perhaps sectors of countries that are allies of both of the above,
or perhaps even neutrals, with some toll being charged or right of refusal
being granted to them).

The cost of sale could be charged as the cost of the goods moving along the
route in mobility (which would make bar sales almost impossible except on
100% highways or seaside banks), perhaps divided by some factor. There is
assumed to be a corps of gypsy and sailor merchants willing to carry the
goods, with the latter probably being paid a higher percent commision per
sector moved. There can be lag in goods delivery based on the number of land/seasectors traversed (or number of sea plus mobility used). Alternatively, we
can return to my preferred idea of all sales occurring at the update, with
bids and sale offers being made on good types rather than on individual lots
(so a person won't be successful on more items than desired, etc., and a one
update lag is built in), and the server calculates the equilibrium price
for each update.

Dan Mytelka (mytelka@enzyme.berkeley.edu, Langerhans)
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Markets
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:37:20 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <4SEP199221375892@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Wow .. What Drugs?) writes:
|>         Ok, I've been reading the discussions on the 'market systems'
|>         I don't like the idea of a delay in buying a commodity.
|> 
|>         But here's a better solution to this, instead of a delay in
|>         buying a commodity, make the delay in selling the commodity,
|>         this way, when an enemy attacks you bank he can't sell off
|>         all the gold bars that are in it without incuring this delay and
|>         allowing you to attack back.  Now if the enemy still happens
|>         to own the sector after the 12 hr delay, then he/she's free
|>         to sell all the gold/bars in it.  At which time once the commodities
|>         are on the market, they could THEN be bought without incuring any
|>         delay at all, because of the delay in selling.
|> 
|> Stuart_Hall
|> aka Corwin


This sounds like a good concept that makes sense.  I guess we could
implement some restriction such as aborting the sale if the goods are
moved or lost before the time is up (this is a perhaps quick and dirty
way of solving the problem of mysteriously vanishing goods -- i.e. put
some food for sale from the dist point and later you move some food
around:  where does the food get sold from?)

Suppose you  want to put 50 bars on the market for quick cash and you
have a bank with 500.  Should the bars disappear immediately?  If not,
suppose you move, say, 300 bars from the bank before the time expires.
Where do the bars come from? (new or old sector?)  Suppose you move only
25 bars from the bank?  Should the code just abort everthing if you try
to move any amount of that commodity from the sector?

-Andy

-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
-----
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Wives, Time, and that ship on our Shoulders...  uh, that's chip... :)
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:04:36 GMT
Organization: LOF

I have an idea.. How about a US-vs-Europe grudge match?

If they want to cry about it, we can even have the updates be at 
say, 12:00AM GMT.. or something like that..

So, who wants to play? As I said before, I could be persuaded
to maybe run it.


Larry/ AKA LandOfFaa
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Rating systems.  AAAGGGHHHH!!!
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:50:35 GMT
Organization: the Elves of Briton

kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) writes:
>Ratings suck.

there is only one true method of ratings in Empire...
the status/respect/reputation that a country gathers.

for instance, I build a boat and what to invade somewhere...
I travel along, I see "Guzzer" I <WAVE!> and more on, I find "Dorsai"
again I move on, this time I find "Joe's Domain", I chuckle, and decide
to let the newbie have a learning experience, next I find two countries
next to each other. "Orleanais" and "Land_Of_Faa" torn between which fodder
to invade I choose "Land_Of_Faa".

why? because I know he'll die easy, Dorsai, and Guzzer wouldn't have.
and the new guy deserves a chance.

and that's the only rating system Empire will ever need.

>BTW, my penis is bigger than yours, so I don't need a rating system   }:)

And Resvon's is bigger then yours, and mine is bigger then his...

(figure I'll save Brett the bother of actually posting)

>Ken
>LSF

*--*
Da Elf
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:32:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <Bu7ttw.7oJ@acsu.buffalo.edu> fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.000950.3168@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
>>	If you notice in my post, I mentioned units retreating. After a combat,
>>only the winner will have units in the sector, as the combat won't end until all
>>defending mil and units are dead or have retreated...
>
>Anyone thought of the idea of morale (based on happiness?) and having units
>fight until they "break", then they retreat a sector at random (rout), and, if
>no friendly sector is available, they are captured, ala Empires in Arms.
>
>Paul
>
>-- 
>Paul Fly                      | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing,
>fly@acsu.buffalo.edu          |  but less interesting than looking."
>v092pxca@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |    --Goethe

	This is a good idea! It's make happiness more important, certainly.
I'd still want the retreat level settable, but you could make it from 1% to 
some level determined by happiness. (For consistency, you could make it 1 to
10+((50+happiness)/(200+happiness)*10) % It'd look like this:

		Happiness	Max retreat %
		0		35%
		10		39%
		20		42%
		40		48%
		60		52%
		100		60%

	It'd  mean that happy nations could hold ground and/or attack better
than unhappy nations (and unhappy troops)

	I'll add it in... Thanks!

Tom
From: hodgkik@pell4l5.alleg.edu (Kenneth Hodgkiss)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: help
Keywords: is empire ok to run on NEXT
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:51:02 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: Allegheny College


   Can someone tell me if it is possible to run empire on a NeXT computer.   
These are the type we have at allegheny college.
			Ken]

		Please post reply