HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: peer structure
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:34:00 GMT

Unto Charles the Clerk and the Rest of the Rialto, Greetings!

Nope, the created magnate should have a)whatever rank the magnates
recommend b)whatever rank the Crown sees fit to grant or c) whatever
the Crown and the Magnates can agree on.  I think the idea of a 'Court
Baron' is fairly silly (as *extremely* distinct from the individuals
who are court barons!); it's a way for the Crown to make a non-peer
hat.  I'm most unconvinced that there were period hats who weren't peers
of the realm.

My problem with 'automatic titles' is that we have way serious too many
high ranking people for an actual medieval kingdom.  The idea I *really*
like is that, after being on the throne successfully, you are automatically
a peer and a magnate, but your title depends on who you can get to declare
for you.  This idea has a sparrow's chance of flying to the moon of
actually happening, but it would keep the numbers of great lords down.
As it is, I think the idea of being able to create hats who haven't reigned
is enough for this go round.

And, yes, Charles, I do know that it is the 'unadorned chain' that is offical;
I think that either a chain with your lord's badge on it, whatever the
nature of the chain, or a more specific *type* of chain would be a good
idea.  Besides, it isn't really clear that it is neccesary to have a
single mark of royal homage, or a single mark of any specific rank, for
that matter.  (If I ever become an Earl, I'm going to find out what an
Ealdorman wore, and wear that, coronets be damned.)

Graydon
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Date: 18 Nov 1992 00:26:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1ec22fINNr2d@agate.berkeley.edu> dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum) writes:

>... what are your favorite documentably period
>hot drinks?  (I'm talking both alcoholic and non-alcoholic here.)
>What are your favorite not-documentably-period (or even documentably-
>not-period) hot drinks?  How well can they be transported to/prepared
>at events?  Are they best prepared in individual servings or 
>five-gallon batches?  Recipes, of course, would be appreciated.

At BART practice on Thursday nights, once the evenings start getting
chilly (as they have done recently), Hal and I mull up a gallon of cider
and bring it to BART in a thermos.  It's mostly the bystanders who
appreciate it at this stage--once it gets just a little colder, the
fighters will start drinking it too.  (And sometimes just stand there
holding it, to get their fingers warm.)

Put a gallon of apple juice/cider (in American markets it makes no
difference) in a large pot over a low fire.  Drop in maybe a couple
tablespoons ( a small handful) each of:

stick cinnamon (I usually get Mexican canela, which I can shred with
	my fingers, rather than standard stick cinnamon which I can't
	even break up)
whole cloves
shredded dried ginger root

and about half a nutmeg, coarsely broken up.

Let it sit, getting slowlty warmer and warmer till it gets hot.  _Try_
not to let it boil.  When it's as hot as you want it to be, or it's time
to leave for BART, put it in a gallon thermos and bring it along.  Bring
cups.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Singing Group Name
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:05:47 GMT

Didn't keep the email address of the requester, but isn't
"laveroc" middle english for "lark", the singing bird?

Laveroc is a neat name...


-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: coffee
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:16:19 GMT


Vashti writes:

> I know know not of Northern Eurpoean plants containing coffee - but
>the romans used to munch coffee beans for their value in keeping alert
>while on long marches.  And they're period to arabian ccultures.

They're definitely period to Arabian cultures, although I question the
former statement about the Romans.  The apocryphal story behind the
discovery of the coffee bean was that a discovered by a goatherd named
Kaldi, around the 8th century A.D., noted that his goats were . . .
well, frisky . . after eating the fruits from a particular plant.
Being an adventurous sort of chap, he tried the fruits and found
himself likewise stimulated.  Thus was born a great industry...(the
coffee "bean" is actually the seed of a cherry-like fruit)

One of the Great Arab scholars (ibn Battuta, maybe) wrote on the
therapeutic effects of coffee; as it is a diuretic, it is best for
"women of moist temperment".  Our Islamic history class tried to
figure out what he meant by _that_ comment....

Unlike chocolate, coffee was never (to my knowledge) banned in period,
although there are post-period references (notably Bach's "Coffee
Cantata", number 128 I think) inveighing against the use of coffee.  

Tio d'Abaco
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:52:18 GMT

mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:

>Greetings from Arval!

>Daniel wrote:

>> First of all, that a law is unenforcable does not mean it is a bad law...
>> IF the law has results in its intended purpose, and IF there are ways
>> around it when it should not apple (as there obviously are, given its
>> wording), then I would submit that it IS a good law.

>You've come straight to the point: If the benefits of the rule outweigh its
>costs, then it is a worthwhile.  I think it is far from clear that this is
>the case.  Even when they are unenforcable or evadable, rules are coercive.
>Simply by virtue of existing, they discourage creativity and
>experimentation.  If we have a rule that says that every branch must hold
>events, then very few people will even consider the alternatives and we
>lose the possible benefits of their alternative efforts.

  This whole discussion has missed an important point of the EK law.  It is
not a rule, but a guideline, and in that context makes perfect sense.  The law
does not say that a group _must_ hold an event; it says that they will be
assumed to be active if they hold an event.
  This is a fair assumption.  Running an event is not something that can be
done by one person (I know, I've tried :-)  If a group is capable of holding an
event they clearly have a certain level of both material resources and human
involvement.
  If a group is not holding an event but is still active, they will have no
trouble as long as they demonstrate in some other way that they are a viable
group.
  While this still makes an assumption--that holding an event is proof of
viability--it is hardly based on the sweeping assumptions that have been 
discussed here.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Authenticity vs. fantasy (long)
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Distribution: world, na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:23:14 GMT

tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:

>Your remark reminds me of a fellow I saw a few years ago at Pennsic. He
>had decided that the SCA had too many nobles and not enough peasants, so
>he decided to be a beggar. He wore beggar' rags (made out of coarse
>brown cloth and sacking) didn't wear shoes (except when forced to do so)
>and refused to bathe for the entire week of Pennsic. He appearantly also
>begged for food and money (discretely) during the week. I don't know
>what he did for shelter. By the end of the week he was REALLY grubby and
>smelly.

  This is Slyme the Beggar, (now Lord Slyme, to his dismay), who is, BTW, one
of the nicest people I've ever met (and I'm in the SCA!)
  He and his would also prepare their clothing by tying it to the back of a car
and driving it down an (unpaved) road after a solid rainstorm.  As far as I
know, Slyme only has one piece of garb--at least, it's the only thing I saw him
wear in five years.
  Unfortunately, he had to reduce some of his grubbier begging behaviors
because of a strong allergy to dust--which only goes to show that being period
can only go so far.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
From: mjo@castle.ed.ac.uk (Martyn J O Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Name for renaissance octet?????
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:27:05 GMT
Organization: Organization?


Having recently started a singing group to perform Renaissance works
(Byrd 4-part, Tallis &c), hopefully giving a concert in spring of next
year, We have come across a quandary: An ORIGINAL name for such a group
of singers. I have done some reading around, and come up with (what I
thought were) original names, only to find out that they are already in
use somewhere.........

Anyone got ANY ideas (preferably latin/Italian, and not TOO pretentious!

Responses preferred by email: mjoc@uk.ac.ed

Thankyou -- Martyn
-- 
==============================================================================
I Have, even if I do say so myself, the BEST CHOCOLATE ICE-CREAM recipe in the 
world...Mail mjoc@uk.ac.ed with your request...no special equipment reqd.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amy@lloyd.Camex.COM (Amy Lindsay)
Subject: Crafts at Events (wasRe: Authenticity vs. fantasy)
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Distribution: world, na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:53:47 EST

In article <1992Nov18.054535.15835@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
 **Thomas' description of doing art in persona at Crown Tourney deleted**

When I was more involved in the SCA, I used to take my loom with me to
outdoor events.  I would sit with my friends (who were usually doing some
kind of handwork,) and we would talk and enjoy the weather (and whatever
sports were happening at the event...) and "have a picnic."

Sometimes people would come over to us and ask about what we were doing,
and sometimes they wouldn't.  It wasn't the purpose of the doing of the
handicrafts, anyway.  The topics were sort of what people would discuss in
period (politics in the kingdom, who was doing what to whom...:)) We did do
some singing.  (You sort of HAVE to when you weave, I think it's a
requirement...)  And some of us were a LITTLE more in persona than
others...

I don't think anyone ever asked us if we was selling things because we were
never set up terribly close to the merchants.  Also, the fact that there
was always more than one of us, and we were all doing different things
probably lent us an air of "we're doing this because we do this" as opposed
to "look at me because I have something to sell you."

Next time maybe you could get a couple of your friends and set up a little
demo area, sort of a "Ephemeral Enchanted Ground" for the day.  It would
make it alot easier to stay in persona.

It was interesting that you tried to stay in persona and speak that way.
That could be somewhat intimidating in itself, and perhaps no one who
noticed you felt they could converse on that standard (except for the one
Bozo who you described,) so they didn't come over to talk to you.  At Renn
Fairs, people know you don't expect them to be medieval, sometimes in the
SCA, you're not quite sure what others expect of you, or if they'll be
offended if you don't deliver.

Anyway, take it as a compliment that he thought your stuff was good enough
he was interested in purchasing it.  In period, you would probably have
been interested in selling it.  Try it again at some other event and see
if people behave differently.
					--erill

A.G.Lindsay, PP-ASEL   *   Cloud Rental: Reasonable Rates   *   amy@camex.com 
Typography & Design Department ~ Camex, Inc. ~ Boston, MA (617-426-7550 x575)
 "Checklist... A list of those items a pilot has to write checks for to get
			  fixed before taking off."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee)
Subject: Re: Children in the SCA
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:22:13 GMT

In article <168A8DC94.JLINTHI1@ua1vm.ua.edu> JLINTHI1@ua1vm.ua.edu writes:
>From the Meridian quarter:
>   We also have a Minister of Children and the Order of the Cygnet
>for the er.. "jewels of the kingdom". (Exact quote from our
>newsletter.) If this wasn't enough, we have a special section
>in the kingdom newsletter called Kids Kronicles. Maybe I am just
>not the tolerant and children loving sort, but I know very few
>children who could handle a full event. (Ours are traditionally
>weekend events, arrival on Friday, main events, like the tourney,
>court and feast on Saturday and pack up to leave on Sunday. We
>also have daytrippers.) The older ones are much easier to live
>with, provided they aren't too loud and decide that they want
>all the attention, not some silly fighter.
>                   Yours,
>                      KLM
> 
>Julia E. Linthicum/ Kerowyn Lassarina Morgan of Lochcarron/ Shire of
>Misty Mere, Barony of Iron Mountain, Meridies/ jlinthi1@ ua1vm.ua.edu
> 

Not a surprsing attitude since the SCA puts children on a scale that is
somewhere between roaches and rodents.  Up here kids do events rather
well. I don't know what you mean by "handle a full event well"
I take my 8 year old to events and he handles them better than most 
adults.  I don't hear him whining about the feast. and court what the
camp next to us doing and all the other stuff people whine about.  

This attitude about kids rather bites.  At our last event. we pulled
up to our campsite and before we could get the hatch open the next
camp over put up a sign that said "No kids".  I was pissed but my
8 year said "aw thier just wankers dad".  We pitched the tent and
ignored them.  So it's just too bad we want to include our children
now isn't it?   


Xref: sparky rec.org.sca:15847 talk.politics.guns:24178
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Event Security (was rednecks with guns)
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:58:26 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


  Unto all good gentles does Cosmano send greetings!

In article <1e4urcINN6rm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:
> 
> drunken bullies could do a great deal of damage.  Why not have, for
> instance, a few _in-period_ firearms on hand, with a demonstration of them

	M'Lord, the thunder of .70cal ball and black-powder _is_ most certainly
impressive, but the weapons are somewhat inaccurate and may upset locals with
the discharge.  A 70lb crossbow can be loaded much faster and is just as
dangerous.  If the intent is "fire to disable" and not "fire for shock", a
crossbow is the answer.
	Even though a longbow has a higher rate of fire, they are more 
noticable when being readied.  Besides, if one shot doesn't convince the 
Bad Guys they've just made an error in judgement, you won't get a chance to
reload anyway.
> 
> In fact, I could see where the SCA could add "period firearms" to the arts
> and sciences currently studied.  Black powder guns are a popular hobby, and
> less of a legal hassle in general than modern ones.
	Here in the mundane extents of Nova Scotia, Canada, I believe you still
require all of the same permits as a modern rifle.



	In Service, with the hope of NEVER putting any of this into
		practice,
			Cosmano


_______________________________________________________________
  Cosmano Piero Michelotto da Roma  |    Michel Vaillancourt
    Canton of Seashire              |     Halifax
     Barony of Ruantallan           |    Nova Scotia
      East Kingdom                  |    Canada!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  Disclaimer:  None Required... U of Dalhousie doesn't think |
|           I can do that much damage, even un-supervised...  |
|                                     --'Sinister             |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Authenticity vs. fantasy (long)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: world, na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:53:44 GMT

Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus writes of being ignored and misunderstood when
he set up a bench and worked wood in a period style at an event.

My lord, I am somewhat puzzled by the reaction you got as well.  I have been
to events in the East and Middle where people have been quietly practicing
some craft in a period or near-period manner, and while they don't draw
as many people as one would hope, many of the people who do approach the 
person seem much more interested, even though the person is not a merchant.
Probably the most prominent example in the East is Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson,
who "makes things from things".  He can usually be found making something
out of wood or leather, teaching the use of the abicus, or something 
similar.  I've seen him hold the attention of some passersby for upwards
of an hour.  And, of course, many musicians who play quietly in a corner
will attract small crowds, too -- especially if they play something less
common than recorder or guitar.  (I don't know why harps are such magnets, 
especially given how common they are in the SCA, but they are.  The hammer 
dulcimer, definitely uncommon, tends to attract a lot of people who want 
to know "just what is that thing, anyway?".)

>Did you know that you can eat a pheasant that has been unrefrigerated
>for 5 days, and only get moderately sick?   Its a period dish called
>High Game Pie!   

While the attempt at authenticity is admirable, the lack of concern for
food poisoning/salmanella/etc is not.  I hope you know what you're doing.

Ellisif
From: Patricia.Thorp@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Patricia Thorp)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:27:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.722283355.AA00000

Greetings from one dabbler in brewing to another....

        may I suggest a little paperback available at many brewing supply 
stores...Making Mead by Bryan Acton and Peter Duncan, Argus Books Ltd. 1984, 
ISBN 0 9oo841 07 9. It contains not only mead recipes but also a delightful 
assortment of others including many that are period and several that are 
hot. I haven't tried the hot ones yet but I remember at least one made from 
ale.
                   Brew away....
                          Jessica Creaven
From: 00dbroesinge@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Old English terms & period brewery
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:17:28 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

From Fthelwine the Dabbler unto all good gentles of the rialto, greetings.

	I've two questions:

1. I'm curious as to whether or not any gentles would know of an Old English 
	equivalent to the term dabbler or jack-of-all-trades; it would be a
	good thing to append to my name, and much less jarring than the Mn
	English term.  I may just opt for a patronymic, but would really like
	to use something a little more indicative of what my persona is all 
	about.  I've only recently begun a study of OE language and literature,
	and have thus far found no suitable phrases.

2. One of the arts in which I've recently begun to dabble is brewing. 
	Naturally, I would be much interested in any information concerning
	period recipes and processes for the brewing of mead, wine, ale, and
	the like. 

						I thank you.

						Fthelwine 
						Shire of Afonlyn
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: U of Penn. or Villanova?  Write me!
From: mfbertke@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Mary Bertke....Gwen MacThaidhg)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:38:57 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

More than a little except I"m in SCA and am trying to get a professor friend
in, too...
Does anyone go to either U of Penn or Villanova?  Write me Mfbertke@miavx1.acs.
muohio.edu if you do.  -mary
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)
Subject: Pictures of dance
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:34:28 GMT

The various references to pictures of period dances being used as a research
tool have convinced me:  If you have facsimilies of period pictures of dance,
and can scan them to make images in some standard form such as GIF or JPG,
please send them to me and I'll put them in the ftp archive on bransle.
Any such pictures should have been out of copyright for hundreds of years,
so that shouldn't be a problem!

Miklos
andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 71043.2756@compuserve.COM (Tom & Susan Earley)
Subject: HELP HELP HELP
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:40:51 GMT

how do I unsubscribe from the digests?  i have been sending notes in
reply to them to sca-request for two weeks now and am still getting
them and it is costing me a lot of money!  please help!

-Ghita   71043,2756

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
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Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:47:00 GMT

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From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Longways switches....(dance)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 01:17:42

 NK> In the first edition of Playford, about a third of the dances are
 NK> "longwayes for as many as will."

 NK> By the 1670s or 1690s, about 95% of the dances are of that type, and
 NK> there is in between the two, there is a gradual reduction in other
 NK> dances.

 NK> What this is taken to mean is that longways dances for as many as will
 NK> were part of a style of dancing just beginning then, or at lesat, just
 NK> beginning to be popular.  The dances for sets of n couples, on the
 Well, the book I quoted from earlier (Social History of Scottish Dance) 
 made the following assumptions:
    Trenchmore, which was quite popular during Elizabeth's reign, is 
 derived from the Irish Rinnce Mhor (sp, source not handy), which meant 
 Great Ring.  By the first Playford, it's a longways for as many as 
 will.  The Author thinks it's been warped, based on his etymology of 
 the name.
    As an aside, here in Ansteorra, we dance Half Hannigan as a circle 
 for as many as will.  In the first Playford, it's a longways, and it 
 requires a fairly serious kludge for the partner-switching.  Mind 
 you, I have absolutely *no* idea why Stargate was teaching this as 
 a circle dance instead of the longways version.  It does work better 
 as a circle, but that doesn't mean it started as a circle.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
     Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca