From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: ? 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:19:39 GMT

In <1it9cjINNlu7@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose) writes:

>In article <C0pKxy.FrB@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg Spira) writes:
>>
>>But why is it that people have such blinders on when it comes to Nolan
>>Ryan?  It makes Don Mattingly syndrome look like a minor thing by
>>comparison.
>>
>Do you mean to say that you object to the idea of Nolan Ryan in the Hall?

Not exactly.  I have mixed feelings about it, actually.

What I really mean is I object to the

1)Nolan Ryan is the greatest of all time crowd

2)People who love to argue that Nolan Ryan's bad record is due to bad teams
(only somewhat true), but don't recognize that other pitchers have also
suffered from non-support.  See Blyleven, Bert, a better pitcher than Ryan.

>If I were a voter, I'd vote for Ryan because:

>1) He showed remarkable durability _as a power pitcher_ in the modern era.
>   Fewer than 20 pitchers have pitched in as many games as Ryan; only Cy
>   Young has started more, and by the end of his career might end up number
>   four in terms of innings pitched, behind only Cy Young, Walter Johnson,
>   and Pud Galvin.
>2) After 5000 innings, he still throws a hard fastball, and is still a feared
>   strikeout pitcher.
>3) Ryan is twelfth in wins and third in losses; Niekro is fourteenth in wins
>   and fourth in losses.  I don't see W-L Pct. as any kind of factor.
>4) Believe it or not, he has an outside shot at 6000 strikeouts.
>5) He is (or was, at the time I saw the last numbers) the hardest pitcher to
>   hit _in history_.  
>6) Seven no-hitters.

>Ryan's no Whitey Ford or Lefty Grove.  But he can be in my Hall anytime.

All true, of course.  And if you give credit to amazing feats, as opposed
to just actual overall performance, Ryan should go in in a walk.

A little chart I made up is below.  First column is career park adjusted ERA
from TB 1(100 is average; higher is better).  Second is career IP.  Third
is highest 5 year LW total during career (for measuring peak).

Note - Ryan's and Blyleven's ERA may be off by a point or two; numbers
are from 1990.


                ADERA        IP       LW 
Seaver           127        4782     25.0
Gibson           127        3885     25.9
Palmer           125        3948     18.6
Marichal         122        3506     22.6
Messersmith      122        2230     13.1
Blyleven         121        4969     17.3
Perry            117        4938     18.2
Niekro           115        5404     16.5
Carlton          115        5217     18.3
Jenkins          115        4498     19.6
Reuschel         115        3244     14.4
Ryan             111        5326      8.7
John             110        4708     12.9
Kaat             107        4529     11.9
Hunter           105        3449     13.2    

My comments, if I was to judge Hall quality based only on each pitcher's
contribution to winning:

Seaver - Class of the group.  Length, excellence, and peak.
Gibson - Great peak.  Easily in.
Palmer - Just a notch below Gibson
Marichal - Not that many innings, but excellence puts him in easily.
Messersmith - No.  Not long enough career, not a good peak.
Blyleven - Long career of excellence, solid peak.  In.
Perry - Just a notch below Blyleven, but similar. In.
Niekro - Most innings in the group.  Solid peak.  Good ERA.  In.
Carlton - Basically the same qualifications as Niekro.  In.
Jenkins - A few less innings, but still in.
Reuschel - Innings are too low at this level.  No.
Ryan - Right on the edge.  Will be tops in innings.
John - Similar qualifications to Ryan, but just below. No.
Kaat - a good pitcher, but not Hall quality.
Hunter - Is in Hall, but shouldn't be.

Greg 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball