HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen)
Subject: Re: Onobox question
Keywords: Yoko Ono
Organization: Little to none, or maybe not......
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:03:55 GMT

In article <Sep.26.11.02.58.1992.27922@remus.rutgers.edu> ficara@remus.rutgers.edu (ken ficara) writes:

>If anyone out there has the Yoko Ono boxed set (ie, you got it free as
>a review copy and can't find a used CD store to buy it from you :) can
>you please email me or post the musician credits to "Walking on Thin
>Ice" and "Yang Yang"? Thanks.

Nope, your rude comments render your question null and void.

Old time rmb'ers know me (among other things) as being the defender of the
females who were / are attached to the members of the band.   Unfortunately,
this usually ends up being Linda and Yoko, as Barbara, Olivia, Cynthia, Patti,
Jane Asher, Maureen, and the countless others have mostly stayed in the 
background.

You may not enjoy Yoko and her music.  However, she is deserving of the basic
human respect any person enjoys.  Further, her status as an artist, and even
musician is valid.   Kate Pearson of the B-52's has countless times stated that
Yoko was one of her biggest influences.  Consider that the ultra-popular "Love
Shack" sounds very much like a pop version of a Yoko tune.  Similarly, John
believed in Yoko, and her abilities.  

I'm not trying to change your mind, but simply ask that you THINK a bit
before you post something so offensive, and unfunny, even if it was meant
as "only a joke"...

<ESC>


-- 
..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
                          -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)

                                
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen)
Subject: Re: The Beatles Reunions 74 & 92
Organization: Little to none, or maybe not......
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:54:24 GMT

In article <6342@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk (R Clement) writes:
>I've just bought a CD called:
>
>The Beatles Reunions 74 & 92.
>
>The '74 part has the band: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder
>			   Jessie Ed Davis, Harry Neilson (sic),
>			   Bobby Keyes.
>And the songs: 1) Studio Play (warming up)
>	       2) Blues Jam
>	       3) Talk Part (guess!)
>	       4) Lucille
>	       5) Nightmares
>	       6) Stand by me (A)
>	       7) Stand by me (B)
>	       8) Stand by me (C)
>	       9) A Medley (Cupid, Chain Gang, Take this hammer)
>
>Does anyone know if the '74 part is for real? I suspect a fake somehow.
>For one the quality is a bit too good. What I think may have happened is
>that they took rehersal tapes for Rock and Roll, and overdubbed someone
>who sounds sorta like Macca onto it. Then, it might be real. Does anyone
>know if Macca dropped in on the R&R sessions at any time. What about 
>Stevie Wonder?

Such a session did indeed happen in April 1974 during John's "lost weekend",
while he was working as producer for Harry Nilsson's "Pussy Cats."

The track listing looks like an *exact* duplicate of Mistral's "A Toot and
a Snore in '74"  It looks like they even stole the liner notes, as the song
listed as "Nightmares" (both here, and on the Mistral CD) is actually a song
called "Sleepwalk."  (The confusion comes from Lennon singing made-up lyrics,
including the word "Nightmare")  In her book, _Loving John_, May Pang mentions
that the band performed "Midnight Special", which is not on either disc.

Unless the disc is of better sound quality (doubtful, as the problems appear
to come from poor miking in the studio rather then problems with the actual
tape), or is longer then the 20-30 minutes of the Mistral disc, this is 
probably one to avoid.

<ESC>

-- 
..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
                          -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)

                                
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: nichols@offa.cs.odu.edu (teresa nichols)
Subject: Re: Beatles imitation bands
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:33:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.164209.1598@ncsu.edu> cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:

   Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Re: more Come Together
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:35:30 GMT

In article <6339@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk (R Clement) writes:
>I always thought that Paul played drums on this track, but when I went to
>look it up in my Abbey Road liner notes I found it didn't say. Tracking it
>through Lewisholm, Ringo is the only drummer mentioned for this track.

And I sincerely apologize for trying to continue this!  I forgot!

Old memories certainly die hard....

And the funny thing is, I was sure I had read about Paul's drums on "Come
Together" somewhere, but now I can find no reference (however erroneous)
anywhere.  Perhaps it was just one of those bits of Beatle lore that float
around....

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: kp@cc.uow.edu.au (Karen Pepper)
Subject: Re: BOOK: "The Immortal John Lennon"
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 03:56:21 GMT

fanyl@vms2.iscs.nus.sg (FAN YENG LOON) writes:

>Hi!!!  I've recently bought this book, "The Immortal John Lennon (1940-1980)" 
>edited by Michael Heatley and published by Viscount Books (of UK origins I 
>suspect).  It's an interesting folio-sized book giving a terse account of 
>Lennon's musical career, from his Liverpool days to his Double Fantasy.  
>Ninety-six pages in all (with well over 75 illustrations). 

>Curiously enough, I'd like to know if this is a brand new book, as no printing 
>history is found on the book and it is not listed under our r.m.b book list (my
>copy was last updated in March '92).

It seems to be new. I saw it advertised in a book shop catalogue last
week. There is also an "Immortal Elvis" volume, for those who may
care for such things.

-- 
* Karen Pepper                  *                                     *
* Moth Wrangler and Stylist     *  " Fingite me mortuum esse. Dicite  *
*                               *    aliquid belli. "                 *
* kp@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au       *                        - Petronius  *
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: Christer.Gullstrand@malmo.trab.se (Christer Gullstrand)
Subject: Re: Hare Krishna Mantra
Organization: Telia Research, Malmo, Sweden
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:31:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.164952.7215@ncsu.edu> cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:
>
>
>
>George Harrison sang this song at some point in his career.
>Is it on any of his albums???
>
No!

Christer

Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: deryl@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: Lennon dates
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:40:37 +1200
Distribution: us ca
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Oct1.011902.23939@epas.toronto.edu>, scordova@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephen Cordova) writes:
I'm guessing from your keywords line, that these are the questions you
had?

From memory, it's born October 9th 1940, died December 8th 1980.
From: ehenry@hydra.unm.edu (Elizabeth Henry CIRT-IRC)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: HELP (Mono vs. Stereo)
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:42:28 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I've been having a great time comparing my original
45 version of "Help" to the stereo CD version and indeed,
as saki noted, the two Lennon vocal are not the same.
Note the emphasis Lennon puts on the word "vanished" as
in "vanished in the haze" on the stereo mix.  The tell
tale difference can be found on the mono version where
John tears into the second chorus.  His phrasing of the word
"Help" the second time he sings "Help me if you can..." has
almost a cry in it.  It's really moving.  
Joe D.
From: dave@RAY.MET.FSU.EDU (Dave Faciane)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: Gems from Lewisohn's "Chron"
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:53:02 GMT



In article <1992Sep27.051117.20771@midway.uchicago.edu> dlm3@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep22.174021.20238@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
>>Items from Lewisohn's new "The Complete Beatles Chronicle"--
>>
>>--The mono and stereo "Help!" (the song) are the same take, not
>>different vocal takes.  Lewisohn says they were "edited" differently,
>>whatever that could mean.  I don't understand this one.
>
>Pshaw and double-pshaw. These are two different vocal takes; I'll
>stake money on it. All Lewisohn has to do is listen to the phrasing
>in John's delivery---it's different in the lyric "And I do appreciate
>you bein' 'round" (listen to the pronunciation of "do" in particular
>on both mono and stereo). Even if Lewisohn argues that these could
>be "edited" (and why would they be, pray tell?), the grittiness of
>the stereo vocals (as opposed to a smoother mono take)---there's
>a tangible desperation in that stereo version---would belie any
>existing documentation, if there is any.
>-- 

I believe that there are, in fact, two vocal takes side by side on
the master tape. Listen to Help tk 9 on UM6; there are obviously 
two (maybe three) Lennon vocals in the mix. I'll bet that for the 
mono mix one of these vocals was mixed out. This take is not too
far removed from the one that was actually used in the stereo mix, 
i.e, they hadn't added a few things (I don't have it here to listen 
to, and I don't recall what was missing). 






David Faciane        | "I was just singing it in the toilet so I think
dave@ray.met.fsu.edu |  I should get it --Lennon, Abbey Road, 1965
From: pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Skinny Puppy, Manson, and the Beatles
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:32:42 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Just thought I'd mention, if anyone cares, that Skinny Puppy, in a song
entitled Worlock (about Manson) sampled the opening riff of Helter Skelter.
Pretty neat song (quite industrial, though)...

-- 

+-| Paul Lewis |--| Jonestown: WLVR 91.3fm  Monday 11pm-1am |-+-------------+
|  'I'd love to turn you on.'                  -The Beatles   |     1       |
|  'You should be with us, feeling like we do  -Perry Farrell |    2 3      |
|   like you love to, but never will again.'                  |             |
|  'You never had the answers!'                -Ministry      | Renaissance |
|  'We could have changed the world.'          -B. Wayne      | Productions |
From: stevedc@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Stephen Carter)
Subject: Re: Crazy Lewisohn thought..
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:22:59 GMT

From article <1992Sep29.093156.11073@waikato.ac.nz>, by deryl@waikato.ac.nz:
> 
> Steve... you've got to be our big hope here!  I mean, not only do you
> have a history of corresponding with Mark, but you're a computer operator
> at an illustrious institution :-)

Less of the "an illustrious" - "THE illustrious".  I mean after all
where did Dr Rock get his degree!  :-)

> 
> I'm a complete nog-head when it comes to computers... but, has the prospect
> of net-membership ever been suggested to Mark?  I guess if he's not interested
> then that's that.  But... if he is (even slightly...) can't we somehow
> arrange the technology (worldwide net-members whip-round perhaps?? :-) )
> 

Maybe I'll suggest it to him again....  Don't hold your breath though!

Steve (sig got lost in a machine swaparound)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen)
Subject: Re: new stereo EP (was new CD single)
Organization: Little to none, or maybe not......
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:22:15 GMT

In article <717787903693@c00489-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu> jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:

>I was not aware that the CD EP Collection had a bonus CD.  The principal 
>attraction of the EP set for me was the first CD release of a few songs in 
>mono plus the mono Magical Mystery Tour EP (the set includes both the mono 
>and stereo versions, right?).  But I have yet been unable to justify the
>expense of obtaining those few mixes on CD.  The original vinyl EP Collection 
>included a bonus EP which included stereo versions of "This Boy," "The Inner 
>Light," "She's A Woman," and "Baby, You're A Rich Man," but all of these have
>since seen stereo release on the Past Masters volumes.
>

This is the same "EP".  Yes, its a bonus (in as much as it was *not* an EP
originally released by the Fabs) but not a prticularly exciting or necessary
one.  I still think the collection is a nice piece, if a bit pricey, but by
no means a necessary addition to a Beatle musical library...

<ESC>

-- 
..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
                          -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)
From: bad@pismo.sw.stratus.com (Bruce Dumes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: "The Making of Sgt. Pepper" on Disney
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:35:04 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Oct5.172637.25736@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
>In my Strawberry Fields Forever article a few months back, I pointed
>out that the alleged "take 25" on Unsurpassed Masters is a fake made
>from two tracks of take 26-- it contains a track not recorded until
>26.  I agree that the originator(s) of the tape used for the bootleg
>had 4 track tapes and made stereo mixes from them.  This is not to say
>that the bootlegger has them though.  My imperfect understanding is
>that these things usually pass through several hands as tapes before
>they reach someone who decides to press CDs (or LPs).
>

The obvious thing to me is that the stereo mixes were made in Abbey Road.
Someone inside made themselves a copy, and it seems like much of this stuff
probably leaked during the preparations for the Abbey Road show in '83.

Bruce


-- 
Bruce Dumes			| "Bruce is too obsessed with the Beatles"   |
Stratus Computer, Inc.		|   --comment on report card from Spring '64 |
bad@sw.stratus.com              
508-460-2816
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: remakes
Date: 29 Sep 1992 19:47:35 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

There aren't just two categories (singer/songwriter and coverer of others' songs).
When you pose it in those terms, it makes it sound as if it's always illegitimate
(or at least uninteresting) to perform a song you didn't write yourself.

Of course the singer/songwriter category is very important, and it can certainly
be argued that this is where the greatest creativity is found.

Another category is the professional songwriter and the performer as separate
people.  I admit that in those cases the songwriter is probably a more
interesting and important contributor than the performer, but still, the
combination can produce some very enjoyable music.  The old Goffin/King songs
from before Carole King's singing career are an example.  My own favorite is
the Ken Howard/Alan Blaikeley songwriting team that created a lot of great
songs for the Herd, the Honeycombs, and Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.

An interesting middle-ground example to think about is Alan Price, who started
his solo career by recording mostly Randy Newman songs, along with a few of his
own, and then went on to be a good songwriter himself.

Then there are covers of songs that were originally written by a singer/songwriter.
The example that first leaps to mind is Bob Dylan, and the covers of his songs
are mostly laughable -- I think Dylan is especially hard for anyone else to sing
without sounding foolish.  Everyone tries, though: the Hollies, the Four Seasons,
Alan Price...  then there are the allegedly Dylan-approved Manfred Mann covers,
which I admit sometimes don't sound quite so stupid.

On the other hand, I usually find Kinks covers (of which there are a lot these
days) pretty listenable.  My theory is that it's punk rockers doing the covers,
and the Kinks were kinda punk in the first place, and part of the punk aesthetic
is that it doesn't matter so much about the details of the performance.  I don't
think I'd enjoy a cover of one of the Kinks songs in which the texture did make
a big difference -- just imagine the Ramones doing Waterloo Sunset.  :-(

Having said all the above, I invariably HATE covers of Beatles songs.  Even if
the cover makes some sense if considered as a new work, the weight of the
original is so strong for me, and my emotions so tied up in it, that I can't
stand the idea.  If someone did manage to come up with a version that was (by
some hypothetical objective standard) an improvement, so much the worse!  It'd
be like improving Van Gogh or something.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: cnc405@bnr.ca (Charles Board)
Subject: Re: What about REMAKES?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 19:14:56 GMT

Speaking of remakes, I'll repeat a question I got no response on a month or so ago.
Didn't John say in an interview somewhere that he preferred Elton's "Lucy.." to the
Beatles original? I'm SURE I saw this somewhere. (btw if so, he was clearly right:)
From: dmac@julia.math.ucla.edu (saki)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: "Big teaser"?
Summary: "Day Tripper" and others
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:30:30 GMT
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department

In article <BvD4JC.64r@nic.umass.edu> EDIAS@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (EMILIANO A DIAS) writes:
>Along a similar line, I read somewhere that in "Day Tripper", John actually
>says "She's a PRICK teaser" is this true?

It's probably what he *wanted* to sing...according to John's friend
Pete Shotton it may have been composed that way. But it was changed
(for obvious reasons) in the final released version.

On the other hand, John's less-than-kind working title for "Baby
You're A Rich Man" found its way into the outro of the song (John's
vocal transmutates from "Baby you're a rich man too" to "Baby you're
a rich fag jew")...at least the way I hear it.

>OBFav Beatle's Story:  Supposedly, when the Beatles first met Bob Dylan, he
>was really impressed that they said ,"I get high" in "I Want to Hold Your Hand"
>They replied that they weren't singing "I get high", they were singing,
>"I can't hide" to which Bob replied, "Why would you want to hide from a girl?"

This story is growing in detail with the telling. :-) While there seems
to be a traceable tale that Dylan did indeed think the lyrics were
"I get high, I get high", once corrected Mr. Zimmerman would likely
have understood the words as refering to a love which *one cannot hide
from the girl*. It's inconceivable to me that this would be unclear to
a seer of Dylan's calibre...unless he were high. :-)
--
"These four boys, who are superb instrumentalists, also
produce some exciting and pulsating vocals."
--------------------------------------------------------
saki (dmac@math.ucla.edu)
From: dmac@julia.math.ucla.edu (saki)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: remakes or covers?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:18:48 GMT
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department

In article <1aabsnINN3lf@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>There aren't just two categories (singer/songwriter and coverer of 
others' songs).

A good point here too, since terminology can be misleading. Cover version
is the correct term when we refer to someone doing a followup version
of another singer's song. But Little Eva wasn't strictly doing a "cover"
of Goffin/King's "Locomotion", since they'd not sung their own version.
There *was* a cover of "Locomotion" in the seventies...oh dear, memory
fails, some heavy-metal band.

Also, the term "remake" is used by Mark Lewisohn in his Book (to wit,
"The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions") to refer to a revised working
version of a song being recorded in-studio. Technically a cover of someone's
song is a sort of "remake" but it could be confusing to those familiar
with Lewisohn's work.

>Another category is the professional songwriter and the performer as separate
>people.  I admit that in those cases the songwriter is probably a more
>interesting and important contributor than the performer, but still, the
>combination can produce some very enjoyable music.  The old Goffin/King songs
>from before Carole King's singing career are an example.  

I think this was much more the case from the mid-sixties onward, when
bands, influenced by the success of the Beatles as *both* songwriters
and singers of their own material, became more adept and doing both.
Cat Stevens is a prime example. His "Here Comes My Baby" doesn't hold a
candle to The Tremeloes' version of the same song, IMHO, but his later
solo work was virtually unperformable by other groups, so distinctive
was his arrangement and vocal delivery.

>Having said all the above, I invariably HATE covers of Beatles songs.  Even if
>the cover makes some sense if considered as a new work, the weight of the
>original is so strong for me, and my emotions so tied up in it, that I can't
>stand the idea.  If someone did manage to come up with a version that was (by
>some hypothetical objective standard) an improvement, so much the worse!  It'd
>be like improving Van Gogh or something.

I tend to agree, though I like to give points to modern pop groups when
they "quote" the Fabs in one of their own compositions (there's a snippet
of "I Call Your Name" in the first few bars of Guadalcanal Diary's "Fear
Of God" from their "Jamboree" album). And an out-and-out terrific cover
of Ringo's "It Don't Come Easy" was done by The Smithereens recently,
though of course the original is still best. Then there's the occasional
"joke" cover of a Beatles song, like The Bobs, who do acapella vocals
(viz., no instruments) of "You Can't Do That" and "Helter Skelter".
--
"These four boys, who are superb instrumentalists, also
produce some exciting and pulsating vocals."
--------------------------------------------------------
saki (dmac@math.ucla.edu)
From: mcrosbie@unix1.tcd.ie (Mark J. Crosbie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Where can I get CD bootlegs in Ireland?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:21:09 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin


Help!

I've seen a lot of talk about CD bootlegs on this group recently, but
unfortunately they all seem to be American.
The problem is, in Dublin, I've NEVER seen a CD bootleg ANYWHERE!
Does anyone know where I can purchase them for a reasonable price??

Thanks for your help,

Robert Crosbie
c/o mcrosbie@unix1.tcd.ie
Trinity College, Dublin
Dublin 2
Ireland.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles