From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:50:27 GMT

kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:

>In article <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>
>>You can easily convince me that the crop circles were created by aliens.  Just

>Can you prove that the ALL of the circles WERE created by humankind?

You're the one saying they are created by aliens.  So, just show me one
instance in which this is true, and I will believe you.

>>Now, obviously that aliens, if they exist, do not want us to know that they
>>are here, right?  
>If they do exist, I'm not willing to make any presumptions about them at all.

Why not?  If they exist, and if we do not know about them, then this must
be by design.  You can't accidently hide...

>>Or else they would just land on the White House lawn like in that moive (you know the one).
>Sure.  _The Day the Earth Stood Still_.  I recall the alien got killed
>by those mad, irrational humans.  

You think that we would pose a theat to a race that travelled from another
star system?

>>So why would an alien that is intelligent
>>enough to create some means to travel about 4 light years at least land his
>>craft in the middle of a corn field if he knew that it would leave behind
>>traces?  And besides, we never see and landing gear imprints, do we?  All we
>>see is a circle of crops that look like they have been smashed over by some
>>guy with a 2X4.
>Actually, the contention is not that they landed and imprinted the
>circles... rather they used some means to 'draw' the circles.  Much like
>graffiti.  And we see some (heresay perhaps, but we listen to the
>take all kinds of circumstantial evidence and take it as believeable.)
>circles that don't appear to match the descriptions of a 2x4 induced
>phenomena.

Oh, so they intentionally leave graffiti behind just to mess with our minds?

>>And now, let's assume that the government has some top secret craft that
>>would create such a circle.  As above, the government wouldn't be dumb
>There have been books that speculated that the government created the
>UFO phenomena to cover up other activities...

Oh?  You think that KGB agents are going to be fooled by UFO stories?  Why
would the governement want to trick the public?  They could just easily
say, "Oh, that is a top secret craft we are developing.  Sorry, we can't
tell you any more," and no one would blink an eye.

>>Now, we have documented cases in which exact such circles have been created 
>>by hoaxsters.  Why the need for some supernatural explanation?  The "guys
>>with plank" theory seems to work perfectly.  Until we see more evidence that
>>indicates that this theory is not sufficient to explain the phenomenon, I 
>>see no use to propose something fantastic.
>I am more skeptical than that... I'm not going to write it off to
>one quick and dirty explanation.  The hoaxters were disreputable people
>thought to have government subsidies.  Why should I believe vandals? 

If you were a true skeptic, you would believe neither the hoaxster or the
alien explanations.

>Better yet, if all of them were made by humans, then WHERE ARE THE
>OTHER HUMANS???  All humans brag.  Show me the others.  Surely there
>are some...

If I go out in a field and destroy someone's crops, you wouldn't find me
bragging about it.  Besides, it I admitted to it, then it wouldn't be any
more fun.

>>My mind is closed you say?  No, I admit that there is a very very remote
>>possibility that there are very dumb aliens out there.  I suppose it could
>>be like the nutty professor who concots the GUT but then locks his keys in his
>>car.  I sincerely doubt though that aliens would overlook this footprint.
>>Show be an alien creating a crop circle, and I will believe that aliens 
>>create them.
>OK, let's say you've placed your bet.  You can even sleep soundly with
>it.  I still see information coming in, and I'll place my bet later.

>Like I said in an earlier post...  keep my email address.  If there ever
>is an open invasion, I want to hear your explanation for it...  or eat crow.
>I'll invite you to the ceremony if you can ever prove your contentions, and
>let you see me do the same.  (I prefer ketchup.  Actually, crow is pretty
>good...  ;-)

So you think that there is going to be an alien invasion?

keith


>Rick
>-- 
>Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
>kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
>AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
>r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.