From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:39:50 GMT

In article <42442@ogicse.ogi.edu> partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy) writes:
>In article <92248.091313IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (T.C.A.Venkatesan) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep3.220304.6936@wuecl.wustl.edu>, sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara
>>Pandian) says:
>>
>>>        Meat-eating is not irrational. Not all are vegetarians.
>>>  But, it is irrational to seek favours from `god' [ if there is one ]
>>> by killing animals in a yajna. .............
>
>	I am not trying to justify anything about killing innocent animals.
>But have you guys considered hunting animals as a sport? It has been there
>in almost all civilizations on this earth. All the great kings of the
>yesteryears indulged in it.
   
       Killing animals for fun ( sport, etc.,) is also irrational.
 When Buddha was a prince ( Siddhartha ), his cousin Devadutta shot a
 swan flying on the sky with his bow and arrow and the bird fell near
 Siddhartha's feet when he was walking on his palace garden. Siddhartha
 was pained to see the bird hurt by the arrow and he took it with him
 for curing it. Devadutta stopped him on his way to the palace and 
 demanded the bird from him. But Siddhartha gave a clever argument to
 Devadutta that the bird belonged to him( Siddhartha ) only as only he 
 found the bird lying on the ground. He cured the swan later.

> Isn't that as barbaric as sacrificing animals
>to appease Gods?

     Both are barbaric. But this comparison is uncalled for.
 I also like to add that I don't promote meat-eating. I observe 
 vegetarianism myself. But it is my opinion that meat-eating is
 not irrational.
 
>
>	People have killed innocent human beings to appease Gods not until
>very long ago. If you want read a book on Thuggees in India. This cult
>persisted for almost 800 years until the British wiped it out. Millions
>and millions of innocent travellers lost their lives to these `thugs' (hence
>the word thug in the English language now). Surprisingly both Hindus and
>Muslims indulged in that! They were following a Kali cult. It is very
>difficult to swallow such heinous acts in our past. I have seen many fellow
>Indians refusing to accept such realities. That was not from the Vedas
>my dear friends. 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Who are these dear friends of yours ?
    I criticized the animal sacrifices privalent in the vedic civilization
 seeking favours or for spiritual upliftment etc., and irrational views
 like `Animals sacrificed in the yajnas go to heaven' etc., I did not say
 that all animal sacrifices present today or existed in the British rule
 were all vedic rituals. My article was essentially about the vedas and
 the vedic civilization. Since you have referred to the Thuggee cult in
 your article, I agree with you that it is barbaric. 
>
>	What this tells is that every religion and cult has been disfigured
>by its followers to the worst state over a period of time. Even the followers
>of Buddhism have degenerated.

     I will soon write on the decline of Buddhism in India and the causes
 and consequences of it. I will also write on the Gupta rule.

>	Vedas may not have any relevance to the day to day life now. But
>leave it to those who are interested in pursuing that. As long as they
>do not affect others' freedom, let us not indulge in deciding what is
>good for others. 

     Once there was a discussion on S.C.I. on the `Vedic institute in
 Tamilnadu'. Those who have read it may remember that I agreed with
 K.Srinivasan ( not ireq ) in his view that study of vedas helps people
 to understand the vedic civilization. I am not calling for a move to
 place the vedas as taboo. I respect others' views and I have nothing
 against people pursuing a scholarly study on the vedas.
>
>	I am not trying to defend the Vedas here. I accept the fact that
>they are no exception in the world of religious texts. They have elements
>which may make no sense. But so are the other religious scriptures.

    I have also posted articles once on the irrational views present in
 the Genesis in the old testament. I have not read Quran and so I have
 not made any opinions on it.  
 
> I can
>never accept any religious text as the most perfect one. So why pick on
>just one so that one can vent his hatred on a particular community (I
>am referring to Mr. Vishnu's attitude).

    Not many people know about what vedas are about. I have seen
 particularly brahmin boys chanting `purusha suktham', `rudram' etc.
 in temples. They don't know the meaning of what they chant. My articles
 on the vedas are to give an idea to the netters what vedas are about.
 They are not intended to spread hatred on Brahmin community.
 
>
>	You do not achieve anything by breeding hatred.

     It is very true. 

>	Lot of guys here who are from brahmin communities no almost know
>nothing about brahministic rituals and the meanings of Vedas.

     It is true that lots of people from the Brahmin communities
 don't know much about Brahministic rituals or the meaning of the vedas.
 Actually they recite the mantras in the rituals performed in their
 houses delivered by their family priest. He doesn't care either on
 whether or not they recite them properly. They just keep the things
 needed for the rituals ( the priest gives them a list of things needed
 for major rituals ) and the rituals are really a race against the time.
 But they believe that the rituals are all unavoidable, that it is their
 duty to observe all rituals ( on `auspicious days' or rituals for their
 dead parents, marriages etc., ) and they believe that the rituals bring
 good to their family and that failure to do rituals like the rituals to
 their dead parents bring them evil. Once SV noted that a vedic ritual
 performed on the day of the Bhopal gas leak saved a family from death.
 Majority of Brahmins buy irrational stuff like this or the ones published
 in Maniyan's "Gnaana Bhoomi". What I am saying is that though the Brahmins
 in general ( I know some people who are exceptions ) know almost     
 nothing about brahministic rituals ( the mantras ) and the meaning of the
 vedic hymns, they honour them, devote to them and observe all necessary
 rituals ( not with animal slaughter but with food, ghee etc.) as told to
 them by their priests.     
 
> Many don't
>know anything about India itself.

    This is not true really. Indian history is included in all history
 books. The life and basic teachings of Buddha and Mahavir was also
 there in the books I studied at school.

> When that is the case why inject
>feelings of hate in an already confused state of mind?

   I am not trying to inject hate feelings by my articles.
>
>	You sure have lots of interesting and useful contributions to
>make. Why don't you focus on them for a change?

   I will keep this advice in mind. 
>
>Partha sarathy

                                                          S.Pandian
                                                    sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
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