HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:42:21 GMT

In article <40748@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.024851.25082@Princeton.EDU> ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson) writes:
>>
>>My blackjack "computer" operates asychronously and thus does not emit any
>>detectable RF signals.  Someone responded that there is a stiff prison
>>sentence associated with this crime.  Is this true - does anyone know
>>for sure what the actual law is?
>
>From _Ken Uston on BlackJack_
>[munched cite of Nevada law and punishment $10K fine/10 years ]
>
>He suggest robbing a bank would get you the same prison
>time and require less startup capital.

  Not to mention the results are much quicker and assured.  Even if you 
  play $1000 blackjack tables with a 1% edge, you are only winning 
  $10 a hand or about $750 a hour.  Hell, robbing a 7-11 might be
  easier given the risks involved and the penalty.

  All of which is NOT to suggest that you rob a bank or a 7-11.
>
>If you can't do the time, don't do the crime, don't do it.
>--Baretta :-)

  Jon
   --- "Hey Blair, what's that smoke coming from inside your shoe?"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: LV recommedations requested...
In-reply-to: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov's message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:09:18 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:52:58

In article <1992Nov5.230918.11583@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:

>>Last question...where can I get the latest FAQ?
>
> The best way is to bug Steve Jacobs by sending mail to jacobs@cs.utah.edu.
> But you can also (anonymous) ftp it from the rec.gambling archive at
> soda.berkeley.edu (128.32.131.179), in the directory pub/rec.gambling.

The FAQ will be posted next week, and monthly (generally on/near the 13th).
Please wait until then to get it rather than sending email.  If you can't
wait, please use FTP.  Your cooperation is appreciated.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kvk@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Kevin)
Subject: Jackpot, Nevada?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:48:56 GMT
Keywords: Jackpot NV info

I'm going to have a free evening next week in Idaho, and last trip I saw
billboards for a casino (casinos?) in Jackpot NV, a reasonable drive just
over the border. Is there any decent single or double-deck blackjack in
Jackpot NV?

				Kevin Kinder
				kvk@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Blackjack tips for beginners/Casinos in Minneapolis
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:36:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.043058.21009@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>
>I found no correlation of the win from one shoe to the next.  Thus I
>found no evidence for a chief tenant of TARGET.

I also found no evidence for a chief tenet of TARGET.

-- 
Michael Hall            \
NASA Ames Research Center\ I like to think of NBJ as evolution in action.
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
In-reply-to: jfr@RedBrick.COM's message of Sat, 7 Nov 1992 22:27:55 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 8 Nov 92 14:30:44

In article <1992Nov7.222755.27719@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:

> If you 4-of-a-kind pat is beaten in a draw game, you might consider
> giving up poker for life.  Or entering a monastary (oh, same thing :-)

Huh?  They say you're not even a player until you've lost with 4/kind.
Why give up when you're just getting started :-)
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
From: breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Holyfield vs. Bowe
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:41:44 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1dbsguINNc7j@skat.usc.edu> ahasham@skat.usc.edu (Allen Hasham) writes:
>
>      Does anyone know what the odds on the fight are. I'm going out
>      to place a bet and was curious.
>   
>    also I would be intrested to hear what anyone else has to say
>    on who they think is going to win.

Oh, probably Holyfield, but as usual, he'll make it look difficult (a man 
of his age who gets worn down by a 42-year-old Foreman is obviously not 
the greatest fighter who ever lived).  I'll be attending this one, and I 
don't know what the odds are, but if they are sufficiently high I'll 
probably put a bet on Bowe, on the general theory that Holyfield is 
going down someday, and it's just as likely to happen when I've got 
15to1 odds on it as any other time (this "strategy" has gained me a 
net profit on boxing betting overall).
From: cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Rec.gambler deals on unlucky day
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:02:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1992Nov10.150921.15463
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Inspired by Frank Irwin's post last week (sorry it's too much trouble
to try to find the reference numbers), I thought I'd announce a similar
thing.

I will be dealing BJ on Friday the thirteenth, 7:30 p.m. to half-past
midnight at the Lotus Garden Restaurant, Main St., Salem, NH.   It's a
little north of the Massachusetts border.  Take Exit 1 from Interstate
93.  Turn right on Rt 28 (Main St), the Lotus Garden is about a mile
on the left.   

This is for charity.  $2 admission.  $1 limit (NH state law).

By the way, I went last week to let Frank deal to me.  He's a good dealer,
but the cards were atrocious.   I lost a bunch of $1 units (but it was to
a good cause), and it took me a whole 15 minutes at Foxwoods the following
day to make it back. :-)

-- --
 Dave C.                          cantor@star.enet.dec.com
 Digital Equipment Corp., Nashua, NH  03062, USA
  The views expressed herein are my own, except where attributed to 
  someone else.  They are neither the opinion of, nor the responsibility 
  of, Digital Equipment Corporation.
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Advisor Party?
Date: 13 Nov 92 08:30:29 EST
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <1992Nov11.214256.16531@sei.cmu.edu>, weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock) writes:
> 
> Besides me, are any of you folks planning on attending the free party that
> Harrah's is throwing for subscribers to the Las Vegas Advisor on December 20,
> and 21?

Yes, indeed.  I'm combining the LVA party with a trip to the DECUS
convention, Dec 4-11.    I am curious how many people have signed up
and will attend.  I hope the number is large enough for them to warrant
doing it in the future.

> I'm planning on arriving the night of December 19th and taking advantage of
> the free room at the Stardust, then move to Harrah's for two nights to take
> advantage of the free rooms during the party.  I'll probably move again for
> two more free nights at the Flamingo before heading home for Christmas.

You're right.  There are an awful lot of freebies going around in December.
Of the 18 nights I'll be in the area (Dec 4-21), I only have to pay for
lodging for 5 nights personally.  Part of that is because the company is
paying the convention nights, but I'm doing similar to you, in that I'm
taking 3 free nights at the Flamingo, one at the Stardust, and the two at
Harrah's.
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: dg-rtp!fibers!mbuck             |
Internet:                             |
  fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com          |
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Hold'Em question
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:11:55 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <BxAyKL.M4B@world.std.com> erb@world.std.com (ed r baker) writes:
>
>Your wired aces will win about one third of the time at a table with 10
>players if everyone stays to the end.  If you have 5-6 opponents, then
>you will win more than one third of the time.  So, 33% chance of winning
>the pot is a conservative estimate.
>
>The pot size is going to be 5 or 6 times the amount of money you put in
>to the pot, and you are going to win 33% of the time.  It seems that you
>would make more money in the long run by contributing as much money to
>the pot as possible.  Raise at every opportunity.
>
>-Ed

Good point.  I'm getting serious pot odds to put as much money in the pot
as possible.  However,

1. I assume that 33% number is *random* hands.  While my opponents are
   capable of showing me virtually any two cards in the deck, isn't that 
   a somewhat optimistic number?

2. By increasing the pot size, I'm giving the Hail Mary draws a price to  
   stay in.  Better keep the pot size down so I have a shot at picking it
   up on the flop (more likely 4th St. :-( ).

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: LV recommedations requested...
In-reply-to: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:13:30 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<JJ.92Nov6084829@presto.slc.mentorg.com> <1992Nov9.201259.644@fibers>
	<1992Nov10.021330.12874@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:53:37

In article <1992Nov10.021330.12874@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov9.201259.644@fibers> mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck) writes:
>>In article <JJ.92Nov6084829@presto.slc.mentorg.com>, jj@slc.mentorg.com (Jeff Jennings) writes:
>>>>
>>>>A question on strategy adj... how are they ranked in order of importance
>>>>for the first 12 or so... (I remeber reading some time back that the
>>>>first 12 give you about 90% of the advantage.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Insure, correlation 0.76, gain 141.16
>>> Hit 16 v X, correlation -0.55, gain 53.12
>>> Hit 15 v X, correlation -0.76, gain 36.06
>>> Split X,X v 6, correlation 0.93, gain 25.04
>>> Split X,X v 5, correlation 0.96, gain 24.04
>>
>>I hadn't realized that splitting XX was so large a part of the profitability
>>of counting!
>
> Preliminary simulation results indicate that it costs close to 20%
> of overall profit if you fail to split 10's.

20%?  I'm extremely skeptical of this claim.  You are saying that a card
counter with a 1.5% edge will have a 1.8% edge by adding just this one
strategy adjustment?  I really doubt it.  I might believe that correct
insurance plays would be worth that much, but not splitting 10s.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: LV recommedations requested...
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:12:59 EST
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <JJ.92Nov6084829@presto.slc.mentorg.com>, jj@slc.mentorg.com (Jeff Jennings) writes:
>>
>>A question on strategy adj... how are they ranked in order of importance
>>for the first 12 or so... (I remeber reading some time back that the
>>first 12 give you about 90% of the advantage.)
> 
> 
> Insure, correlation 0.76, gain 141.16
> Hit 16 v X, correlation -0.55, gain 53.12
> Hit 15 v X, correlation -0.76, gain 36.06
> Split X,X v 6, correlation 0.93, gain 25.04
> Split X,X v 5, correlation 0.96, gain 24.04

I hadn't realized that splitting XX was so large a part of the profitability of
counting!  I haven't yet actually split XX, partly due to not having had
enough of a plus count to warrant it, and partly because of Pit Critter
Paranoia.

I know that BJ dealers and pit critters often bemoan players they've
had at their tables earlier in the day who split XX.  I have assumed
that they do this since they want to appear sympathetic (during
typical dealer/player banter) to the typical BJ player, who hates
to be at a table with a player who splits XX.  But, I've always
believed that dealers and pit critters know _very well_ that
splitting XX is a very easy way to spot a counter.

Is this actually true?  If so, how do rec.gamblers handle XX vs 6
with an astronomical true count?  Are you forced to give up the
advantage you've gotten from counting by making some kind of cover
play/bet to throw off the pit critter?  Remember the mild commotion
that happens at the table when you split XX.  The dealer will quiz
you as to whether you _really_ want to do that.  The other players
will moan and whine about it.  The pit _will_ notice it.  How can a
counter make effective use of this play while not shouting to the
pit of his/her presence?
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: dg-rtp!fibers!mbuck             |
Internet:                             |
  fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com          |
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: levesque@mprgate.mpr.ca (Steve Levesque)
Subject: Vegas trip
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:27:21 GMT

Hi there, I'm going to Vegas on the weekend of Nov 13 and I just have 
a few questions.

Are there any good shows/concerts on that weekend? I know the Hollyfield - 
Bowe fight is on, but are there any tickets left? How much? Any other shows/
concerts?

Where are there good buffets etc?

Also, where are the best places to play Blackjack, Craps and VP right now.

One question on the FAQ regarding Video Poker.
In the FAQ it says:

>  In order to have an advantage over the house, you must find a machine
>  with a progressive jackpot that is larger that about 1750 maximum bets.
>  ($8750 for $1 machines, $2200 for $.25 machines, $440 for $.05 machines).
>  The level only makes the game even with the house.  The jackpot must
>  be higher than this in order to gain an advantage.  The player's edge
>  increases by about 1% for each addition of 750 maximum bets into the
>  progressive jackpot.
>
>  In order to have a 2% edge, the jackpot must be about 2500 max. bets.
>  ($12,500 for $1 machines, $3125 for $.25 machines, $625 for $.05 machines).

It says that an even game is 1750 max. bets, and that every 750 max bets
increases your chances by 1%.

Shouldn't that make 2500 max bets a 1% advantage, or does that make 1000 
bets an even game, or am I just reading this wrong?

The reason I ask is I very seldom see a game where the jackpot is
>  ($8750 for $1 machines, $2200 for $.25 machines, $440 for $.05 machines).

How much does the strategy change when the jackpot is at say 1000 bets?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve Levesque

Keywords:
From: sbrackstone@admin1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Caesars to operate New Orleans Casino
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:27:20 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

Caesars World and Christopher Hemmeter won the rights to develop
the only land based casino in New Orleans.  The $427 million
casino will be owned by Hemmeter, Daniel Robinowitz, and other
investors and will be operated by Caesars World.  Annual revenue
is expected to be around $680 million.  First year lease payments
to New Orleans are expected to be $20.4 million.

Sam
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:58:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.044009.23196@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>In article <JACOBS.92Nov8143044@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu
>(Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov7.222755.27719@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
>>> If you 4-of-a-kind pat is beaten in a draw game, you might consider
>>> giving up poker for life.  Or entering a monastary (oh, same thing :-)
>>Huh?  They say you're not even a player until you've lost with 4/kind.
>>Why give up when you're just getting started :-)
>And you're not a good player until you've folded it to a better hand :-)

  Just make sure there is no jackpot before you do this :-)  If you fold
  and there IS a jackpot, you will REALLY regret it :-)  I make it a 
  point to not fold Aces Full or better under any circumstances.  If you
  do and find out you were bluffed, you hate yourself.  If you do and
  find out there was a jackpot, you hate yourself.  If you don't and you
  lose, it makes for a GREAT bad beat story :-) 

  Jon Rosen
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: walter@optimla.aimla.com (Walter Hunt)
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Organization: OptImage Interactive Services Co., L.P.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 18:43:44 GMT



	While we're talking about variations on craps betting . . . .

	I was out in LV a couple weeks ago, and wandered down to the Frontier to
see if the 10x craps would make me any money (nope). While I was there, the
craps dealers were basically allowing free buy bets (I think that's the name for
this kind of bet). In other words, you could put money on a number, with odds,
and get paid exactly as if it was a come bet, with no "vig".

	Anybody have any idea how much of an advantage it would be to be able to
pick your come bets?


-- 
Walter Hunt					walter@optimage.com
OptImage Interactive Services Company, L.P.	walter@aimla.com
11040 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite #300		uunet!{optimage,aimla}!walter
Los Angeles, Ca. 90025				(310) 445-5718
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber)
Subject: Poker Solitare
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:17:30 GMT

I'm writing a program to play Poker Solitare (you know, make 5 pat
hands out of 25 random cards -- the solitare game 2 people can play
at the same time with a single deck of cards) and my question is
whether or not 4-of-a-kind is, by definition, a "pat hand".

I know, for instance, in draw poker if I ever have 4-of-a-kind (give me 
time, it may even happen some day) I'd automatically draw an extra
card just to throw off the other players, rather than stand "pat".

The program, btw, doesn't play the game itself, but rather solves
the problem of knowing if it actually was possible to make 5 pat hands
from the cards I had -- even it I wasn't good enough to manage it
otherwise on my own.  It has proven to be a good programming
exercise in helping me learn C.  (Much better than the exercises in
my C book.)  Of course, it has helped to run it on the Sun IPX work 
station I had available to me at the time -- only took 6 minutes
for my latest version with the optomizer fully engaged to run my
"no solution" (intentionally) worst case test deck.  Now I'll have
to see how many hours the same thing takes on my notebook pc.  :^)


Without change,                         *David Barber*
   nothing can ever get better.            @}-->----

UUCP: ucsd!crash!dbarber
INET: dbarber@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jk@apple.com (John Kullmann)
Subject: 2 brief poker game reviews
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:36:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple

Sorry these are VERY brief.

First, DON'T buy Riverboat Hold'em for the Mac, as advertised in the 
Card Player.
It plays terribly (write for more details) and has a terrible  user
interface (esp not following standard Mac user interface).

Second, the World Series of Poker, for the PC, is GREAT!  You arrive in
Vegas with $5K, try to run it up to $10K and buy in for the No Limit World
Series of Poker.

JK
apple.com
From: bi011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill King)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:40:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bi011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill King)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller) says:

>In article <1992Nov4.202557.11388@unislc.uucp> mgc@unislc.uucp (Marc Christensen) writes:
>>Andrew William Jackson (ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
>>: Why is computer use not more widespread in casinos?
>>: The book eudemonic pie describes the construction and use of a 
>>: roulette computer that was quite effective.  Are these computers
>>: illegal?  
>Computers are illegal in Nevada but not New Jersey; one problem with using
>a computer in a casino is that casino already have lots of electronic
>gadgets in them and you are likely to get interference; I thought that
>was all mentioned in the eudemonic pie book, now called The Newtonian Casino,
>at least in the UK.
>
A little note: On a recent trip to AC, I tried to walk into a
casino with a pair of radio headphones on, but the security guard
stopped me, even though other times I had taken it in. Anyway, I
had to leave it at the coat room. I guess radio walkmans are another
banned item? Also, I don't think cameras are allowed either in A.C.
Bill
-- 
Hey, hey champ, was she a "whoo"?  No, she was a "WHOOOOOO!" --Ric Flair
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 14:22:09 GMT

From: cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor)
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:35:31 GMT

> Do you mean "place to lose" bets?  I've seen those written up in books, but
> haven't seen them on a layout anywhere (LV, AC, Ledyard), and I haven't seen
> them described in any of the gaming guide booklets that the casinos have.

You certainly CAN make don't place bets in AC.  The place on the layout
for them is on the line(s) right above where the don't come bets go. 
I've seen them made plenty of times.

I think most (all?) casinos in LV will not take them, however.  I've
seen some tables with signs saying they don't take them & I 've heard
people ask in other places & get the answer "no".

JR
From: chrisi@spock.usc.edu (Chris Irwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Vegas trip
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:15:11 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.usc.edu
Summary: buffets

In article <1des1oINN6oe@skat.usc.edu> ahasham@skat.usc.edu (Allen Hasham) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.192721.26260@mprgate.mpr.ca> levesque@mprgate.mpr.ca (Steve Levesque) writes:
>>Hi there, I'm going to Vegas on the weekend of Nov 13 and I just have 
>>a few questions.
[munch]
>>Where are there good buffets etc?
>>
>   as for Buffets I would  go to Golden Nugget if you end up down town.
>   I think its one of the best in Vegas
>
>   al..

The Sands has a Lobster buffet for $17.95 every night except Saturday.
YThis gets you up to THREE Maine lobsters.  They also have a $4.95
Prime Rib dinner that is pretty good.  The Sea Food Grotto at the
Frontier is highly recommended by some LV locals.



-- 
|     _____  chrisi@spock.usc.edu| Protect YOUR Second Amendment Rights --    |
|    /       /            '  ____| Support the National Rifle Association!!   |
|   /       /----  /---  /  (__  |-----------------|--------------------------|
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Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: adams@chuck.dallas.sgi.com (Charles Adams)
Subject: Mirage Poker Tables this weekend
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:41:11 GMT

Avoid the poker tables this weekend in LV at the Mirage.  I'll be there.

Enuff said.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling