HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Q: Diuretics
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:44:11 GMT

In article <silver.726217704@sfu.ca> silver@fraser.sfu.ca (Craig Silver) writes:
>I would like to know about what a diuretic is.  I know it's a
>drug that promotes water excretion.
> 
>1.   People say the caffeine and alcohol are diuretics.  Is it
>     caffeine and alcohol themselves that are diuretics (are they
>     the drugs that promote water excretion themselves)?
 
Caffeine is a mild diuretic which acts directly on the kidney; frankly,
it is not very powerful in this regard, and anyone who drinks coffee or
tea regularly is undoubtedly tolerant to this effect.  Alcohol
suppresses the secretion of anti-diuretic hormone, and thereby causes
increased urine production.

>2.   Technical question: *how* does it promote water excretion?
 
The mechanism of action of caffeine on the kidney is not well understood.

>3.   Are there any natural foods that are/have diuretics?
 
Probably not very powerful ones.  Uva ursi (bearberry) is sometimes described
as a diuretic.  I have no idea how well it works.

>4.   What are some *water-absorbing* foods and is there a name
>     for them?
 
I can't think of anything off-hand which tends to cause water
retention.  Actually, that's wrong--black liquorice contains a
steroid-like compound which tends to increase the kidney's
sensitivity to one of the renal mineralocorticosteroids,
aldosterone.  In very large doses, liquorice causes sodium and
water retention and potassium excretion.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: sroka@evax.gdc.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Quick question
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:40:13 GMT
Organization: General DataComm, Middlebury CT

Please excuse me if this is the wrong group to post these questions or if 
they have been discussed to death earlier.


I know of someone who is praising the benefits he has realized since being on
the Herbalife program. Why is it that something this good is ONLY available 
from Herbalife? Is this stuff really that good? Are there any benefits of the 
Herbalife products over other similar products?

I'm sure that there are benefits from being on this program but is it as 
wonderful a product that I hear it is. This person I know says that the the 
Herbalife products have helped his sore back that he has had for years even 
after the surgery years ago has failed to help.

I was wondering if anyone out there have some knowledge on this product. Since
I don't check this group often I would appreciate it if the responses are
E-MAILed directly to me. 

Thanks

Stan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any information received on the product is for my own use. In no way will any 
of this information be used in support of, or against, this or any other
products.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I'm entitled to mine. The views and
opinions expressed here are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of anyone
else.


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Subject: Re: True Vegeterian - is it OK?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: sci.med.nutrition
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:49:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.150457.10778@msc.cornell.edu> revesz@msc.cornell.edu (Peter Revesz) writes:
>
>Question of hard-core Vegeterian:
>
>Is it possible to have a ballanced, healthy diet
>if someone does not eat meat, fish, eggs, milk AT ALL?

I won't dispute everyone elses answers that its possible,
but why would you want to.  Food is for enjoyment rather
than just sustainment.  Live a little.  Those foods mentioned
above are part of the joy of eating.

Sorry about that, I just think the carnivore message deserves equal time.
-J.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Q: Anti-inflamitory in natural foods??
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:49:58 GMT

Evening Primrose Oil is a supplement that has an anti-inflamatory
effect. You can find it in most health food stores.
--
Bernie Simon			New Year's Resolution:
bsimon@stsci.edu		I promise not to call anyone a bonehead.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jkorpela@snakemail.hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)
Subject: Re: "Natural" vs. synthetic supplements, etc.
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1993Jan5.154444.925@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<1993Jan5.194148.4754@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<1993Jan11.155445.21063@mlb.semi.harris.com>
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:19:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.155445.21063@mlb.semi.harris.com> Harvey Newstrom <hnewstrom@hnewstrom.ess.harris.com> writes:

   After sitting for a while, ascorbic acid combines with the water to form
   dehydro-ascorbic acid, sometimes called antivitamin C.  This chemical actually
   destroys and inhibits vitamin C function in the body.

Could someone please provide more detailed information? Under what circumstances
(temperature, concentration, pH range, absence of inhibitors etc.) does this
happen and how fast? Does the phenomenon take place in nature, e.g. in fruits,
juices &c.? What are the practical implications (to, say, recommended methods
of conserving vegetables)?

Jukka "Yucca" Korpela
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Q: Anti-inflamitory in natural foods??
Keywords: Q: Anti-inflamitory natural foods
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:45:33 GMT

In article <silver.726217827@sfu.ca> silver@fraser.sfu.ca (Craig Silver) writes:
>Are there any natural foods that are/have anti-inflamitories
>(sp)?  If so, what are some?

No.  And I don't call willow bark a "natural food", sorry.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Shepherd)
Subject: Vitamin D (was Re: True Vegeterian - is it OK?)
Originator: mds5142@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: sci.med.nutrition
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:25:33 GMT

>Vitamin D could be an another problem if one doesn't get
>enough sunshine though the year.  But this is easy to
>remedy by simply ensuring that one expose one's face
>to the sun for about 15 mins. on average throughout
>the year (less if you expose more of your body :-)  )

Do you mean 15 minutes per day here?

>(alternatively, uv transmitable glass or full spectrum 
>indoor lights).
>
>And yes, you can store a sizable supply for future needs
>by longer exposures.  Again, the incidence of D deficiency
>among healthy adults is really quite rare.

I was curious what Vitamin D does for people?  What happens when it is
lacking?  I live in Rochester, NY and probably don't get much Vitamin D
this way since the sun rarely shows itself.  What other ways is there to
get Vitamin D (food, etc.)?

thanks,
Mike
-- 
Michael Shepherd ++ mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu ++ shepherd.wbst129@xerox.com
* From the pain come the dream, From the dream come the vision, From the *
* vision come the people, And from the people come the power, From this  *
* power come the change.  - P. Gabriel                                   *
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: antonio@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Franklin Antonio)
Subject: Re: Vitamin E Preparations and Estrogen
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:58:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.160535.19576@midway.uchicago.edu> bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.183148.25501@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
>Dyer) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan8.162020.20938@midway.uchicago.edu>
> bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>> I have heard that many vitamin E preparations have estrogen in
>>> them. 
>>>Does anyone know if this is
>> B.S., and if not, whether or not the

>>Wherever did you hear that?

>... I'm not sure where it got started, but one
>place where the notion is actually printed is in Roy Walford's book,
>_Maximum Life Span_ (1983?). I don't have the book so I don't know exactly

Well, I had Walford's book handy, so I looked up the reference.  Here's
what he has to say.  I quoted the entire paragraph to give some context,
but as with any quote, it is of necessity to some degree out of context. 

"Vitimin E has been shown to have a slight positive effect on
life span in fruit flies and rats, with an increase in 50 percent
survival of about 10 percent.  In some cell components (microsomes
and mitochondria, for those who know their anatomy) it's the only
naturally occurring fat-soluble antioxidant.  The antioxidant properties
of the vitamin E family (the tocopherols) are said to be the reverse
of their biologic potency in other kinds of tests; thus, for 
antioxidant properties d-delta > d-gamma > d-beta > d-alpha
tocopherol.  Commercial brands of mixed tocopherols, made from wheat
germ oil, contain mostly the d-alpha form, and also a fair amount
of the female sex hormone estrogen.  Among pure tochopherols,
only the d-alpha form is readily available.  The situation is not
perfect but our information allows us to navigate."


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mdgoodma@apgea.army.mil (Malcolm D. Goodman <mdgoodma>)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Ginseng ** Could someone send me A summary of Pros/Cons ?? PLease
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:56:41 GMT
Organization: APG-Edgewood


 I have been interested in Ginseng but I really would like to
hear some pros and cons about it.  Is it scientifically valid?
Is there something in it that really does something to you?
What about the trade name Ginsana?  It costs a bunch! 

On the same line what is Ginko ????? ( I'm missing part of the term)

If anyone have a summary they could mail me I would really appreciate it!

THanks

Mack
mdgoodma@cbda8.apgea.army.mil
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Vitamin E Preparations and Estrogen
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:31:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan8.183148.25501
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan8.162020.20938@midway.uchicago.edu> bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>  I have heard that many vitamin E preparations have estrogen in them.
>Does anyone know if this is B.S., and if not, whether or not the
>amount of estrogen is significant?

Wherever did you hear that?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: "Natural" vs. synthetic supplements, etc.
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 19:41:48 GMT
Followup-To: jil@donuts0.bellcore.com

In article <1993Jan4.214054.27047@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.153316.24731@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@donuts0.bellcore.com (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>
>>As an aside, Dr. Smith mentioned the following in the paper:
>>"Another scientific giant, Dr. Albert Szent-Gyorgyi (Nobel prize
>>included work with vitamin C),
>
>Dyer's Law #2: anyone who uses the phrase "scientific giant" or
>"Nobel Prize" in an assertion is automatically suspect. :-)

I share the "blame" (in your eyes) with Dr. Smith.  Although she used the
term, "scientific giant," it was I who added the parenthetical "Nobel Prize"
remark in case it would be of interest to anyone not familiar with the fact.
Well, you were suspect of me before the remark anyway :-), but, at least I'm
in good company ;-)
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: True Vegeterian - is it OK?
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:52:28 GMT
Distribution: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.150457.10778@msc.cornell.edu> revesz@msc.cornell.edu (Peter Revesz) writes:
>>
>>Question of hard-core Vegeterian:
>>
>>Is it possible to have a ballanced, healthy diet
>>if someone does not eat meat, fish, eggs, milk AT ALL?

>I won't dispute everyone elses answers that its possible,
>but why would you want to.  Food is for enjoyment rather
>than just sustainment.  Live a little.  Those foods mentioned
>above are part of the joy of eating.

I agree that food is for enjoyment and nutrition, that is why
many people are vegetarians!!  Really, talk to some vegetarians
or vegans and they will tell you that since they gave up meat
products their enjoyment of food has increased, not decreased.
And yes, vegetarians in point of fact eat a greater *variety*
of foods and cook more recipes than do omnivores.  There is nothing 
boring about good vegatarian fare; quite the contrary.  :)

					ted
From: dks@gallant.apple.com (dk smith)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Date: 4 Jan 93 06:53:28 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec17.220212.21534@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts) writes:
>I was the original poster of the question about the recommended Ca/Mg
>ratio.  I am female, and was concerned about using a supplement to
>offset the effects of menopause relative to osteoporosis.  I have
>gathered from the postings that a 2:1 ratio is probably recommended,
>with no vitamin D, or a small amount.
>
>Thanks to you all for your informative postings and email.
>
>-- 
>
>Chris Roberts                     ITC/Academic Computing Center
>cpr4k@virginia.edu                University of Virginia           
>(804) 982-4693                    Charlottesville, Virginia 22903

I am a bit late in this thread. So please excuse if this this has already
been discussed...

Have you folks touched upon or heard of the theory that 'fat' nations 
<typically Western-ized civilizations> cause their own Calcium deficiencies
due to the high level of protein intake? The theory goes like this: to much
protein inhibits the absorption and/or leeches calcium from the parts of our 
bodies that need it. 

Is this a bunch of bull or does this theory have some roots/merit?

I'll hold off on where I heard it since the mention of this person's name
will probably spark some emotion from some people. <<Someone will undoubtedly
follow-up with the source, anyway>>

thx,
dk

-- 
dks@apple.com | Above opinions are mine and are not endorsed by Apple Computer
AppleLink: ULTIMATE | 408 974-1275 | If you are what you eat, are you dead meat?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
  The SF Board of Education just can't bring itself to use a horrid word 
  like "intercourse". ...[from their] instructions to students, 
    "the effectiveness of condoms is enhanced by use of a new 
     condom with each episode of 'penile insertive behavior'."

  A Chron reader, writes in, 
    "You can tell a man wrote that. I much prefer 'penile receptive
     behavior' - it sounds much more user-friendly."

                                -Herb Caen, San Francisco Chronicle, Dec 1992 
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: "Natural" vs. synthetic supplements, etc.
Date: 5 Jan 1993 15:21:28 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfcgf.sde.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Elizabeth Schwartz (betsys@cs.umb.edu) wrote:
: It's fun to take vitamin pills and put them in a glass of vinegar for
: 30 minutes, or coca-cola.  i had a bottle of generic fake "Centrum"
: vitamins that I could not dissolve! I decided to split them in half
: before taking them...

I know of someone who works in the water/sewage processing plant in
Grand Junction, CO.  He says vitamins are a standing joke there because
of all the, ahh, "unprocessed" vitamins that arrive at their facilities
via the sewers.  He says most commercial vitamin tablets make nice pretty
"gravel" for aquariums because they'll never dissolve.  :-)

I use a supplement that will dissolve in WATER in a relatively short time.
I figure that way I'm pretty unlikely to be flushing any undigested tablets
down the drain.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vitamin D (was Re: True Vegeterian - is it OK?)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: sci.med.nutrition
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:16:56 GMT

young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young) writes:

>In article <altar.726609566@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>[...]

>>The plain fact of the matter is that rickets is NOT caused
>>by a poor diet, as are all the other nutritional diseases,
>>but as Loomis says, by a "deficiency of solar ultraviolet
>>radiation"!

>	I let this go by once, but twice is just too much.  This
>	statement is ridiculous; 

Remember, iIt is not my statement, but Professor Loomis's statement, who
I think does know what he is talking about.

...
>	Rickets is a vitamin D deficiency disease that MAY BE TRIGGERED
>	by a lack of solar ultraviolet radiation.  If rickets were a
>	deficiency of solar UV radiation, then only solar UV radiation,
>	or an analog, would cure it...which is clearly not the case.

Exactly the same bad argument can be applied to "vitamin" D
To wit:  "If rickets were a deficiency of vitamin D, then only
vitamin D or an analog, would cure it...which is clearly not the case"
From: behnke@FNALF.FNAL.GOV
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Q: Anti-inflamitory in natural foods??
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:48:56 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Distribution: na
Reply-To: behnke@FNALF.FNAL.GOV
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalf.fnal.gov

In article <1993Jan5.172623.26703@pixel.kodak.com>, young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young) writes:
>   The name was derived from a combination of the "A" from "acetyl-" and the
>   "spir-" from spiraeic acid, the former name of salicylic acid, which, in
>   turn, is derived from the Genus name, Spiraea, in which the acid is found
>   naturally.

According to a PBS program on chemistry, aspirin is now made from bezene and
other highly toxic chemicals.  Program feature Dr. Don Showalter(sp?) from the
University of Wisconsin-Madison

Mike Behnke
Fermi Nat Accel Lab
Batavia, Il.

behnke@FNALF.FNAL.GOV
My opinions are my own, and MOST of them don't mean a thing !

mb
Xref: sparky sci.med:23792 talk.politics.medicine:544
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: Family Practice
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:35:29 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: talk.politics.medicine
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) wrote:
> Unless they're deathly ill, people want to see health counselors, not
> technicians.

I'm sure a lot of doctors would just love this to be true, as it gives them
a really great power trip to be arranging their patients' entire lives
rather than just treating conditions.  (It's the standard practice in
psychiatry, and being able to do that all day long must be the major
attraction of the specialty).  If I find a doctor trying that on me I look
for a replacement, FAST.

The only occasions on which I will *ever* visit an MD is when I need one to
do some specific action - diagnose something, prescribe a drug, do some
surgery, immunize me - that I can't do for myself on grounds of technical
inability, physical impossibility or legal restriction.  The answer I get
may well be "you don't need a drug for that, it'll go away if you stretch
it regularly" but that has none of the open-ended connotations of
"counselling": a good car mechanic won't solve every problem by selling a
spare part, either.

And I'd bet that 90% of all visits to general practitioners are made with
the same attitude.

[ Followups to talk.politics.medicine. ]

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Colbys-Weizenbaum and Overcoming Depression 2.0
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:28:29 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: Such a silly accusation!

-*----
In article <1993Jan8.203159.14408@cs.ucla.edu> colby@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Kenneth Colby) writes:
> The charge that OVD is a lie (eine Luge) is based on the
> weird argument that the program outputs "I" expressions ("I think
> you are right") but there really is no "I" there (da ist kein ich).
> The deictic pronoun "I" refers to the speaker--whoever uses it.
> In the case of OVD, the "I" obviously refers to the designer of
> the program, one step removed. ...

I think this is too convoluted a defense.  Assume that the "I" is
interpreted as referring to the computer program.  This involves
a falsehood only if it is *also* interpreted as referring to a
person.  As long as those who propagate the program do not
deceive its users by asserting both interpretations, no lie is
involved.  

(Someone might argue that the word "I" implies that the speaker
is a person, but the easy response to that is that you plan on
using it differently, and as long as the context makes clear how
it is used, they may complain about your cavalier use of words,
but not that you deceive.)

Russell
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Reporting Symptoms
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:12:23 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu]
 
>>>I have a question about reporting symptoms. How do I know what I need
>>>to report for my doctor? I often end up leaving the doctor's office with
>>>the feeling that I've forgotten to mention something which might be
>>>important. [Description of symptoms omitted].
 
>>Tell her you think you have fibromyalgia.  I'll send you some stuff on
>>it.  Also consider joining FIBROM-L@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU.  In general, when
>>seeing a doctor, it is not a good idea to take in a list of symptoms.
 
>I disagree with this.  Let the doctor make the diagnosis.
 
Most physicians do such a poor job of diagnosing fibromyalgia that they
need all the help they can get.  Few even know the location of the
characteristic tender points, without the identification of a diagnosis
cannot be made.
 
>The doctor is interested in obtaining a "chief complaint," which is the
>starting place in differential diagnosis - the list of all the things
>that might account for the symptoms.  Tell the doctor the basics -
>where's the pain, how long you've had it, etc - and let the doctor ask
>you questions about the symptom(s) - e.g., what makes it better, what
>makes it worse, is it relieved by X, ever had it before, it is
>associated with XYZ, etc.  The doctor ought to know what's relevant and
>what isn't, take your cue from him/her.
 
I think we worry too much at times about being in control of the patient
interview.  If a patient wants to do all the talking, I'll let them as
long as they don't ramble on forever.  The more of the history that is
in the patient's words, the better the quality.  After they are done
telling their story then I ask about anything I need to know that they
have left out.  I also find it helpful for patients to tell me what they
are worried about having.  Sometimes you do them the most good by
addressing an unrealistic fear or correcting misinformation about a
condition.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med