From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: the answers GMT was looking for (Re: Chinese questions)
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:18:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


If I remember correctly posters on sck got really pissed when
Tong answered Woong-ki's post starting with the F-word. Now that
Tong has received enough flames I think it's time someone
gave some sincere answers to his questions.

OK, the following include some generalizations which are dangerous
so I beg the pardon of the KCIA(Korean coalition of aethists and
individualists).

Koreans do not think that badly of Chinese in general. In school
we learn much more about the misdeeds of the Japanese than the
Chinese. 

Some of the prejudices that Koreans have against Chinese are:

1) They do not care too much about bathing and laundering
   clothes and its because water is scarce in China.
   The Chinese community in Korea did not open too many laundromats.
2) They are very diligent and save alot of money to the point of
   being miserly and greedy. They should spend more money
   on dressing more fashionably.
   There used to be a thriving Chinatown in Seoul where there were
   many rich Chinese merchants. Many left after 1945 due to
   discriminatory tax policy by the Korean government. I don't think
   the taxes had to do with general racial prejudices as much as some
   of the merchants supporting President Rhee's opponents.
3) They are very good cooks.
   There are many excellent Chinese restaurants in Seoul to this day.
   There are ALOT more chinese retaurants in Seoul than Chinese
   laundromats.
4) While the Japanese are cunning and untrustworthy, the Chinese
   will always return even the most minor favors. 
   If you wrong a chinese, they will remember and avenge you.
   Too many shao-lin temple martial arts movies....

   The Japanese who live on an island will trounce on you if you are weak but
   sucker up to you if you are strong, but the Chinese who live on
   a continent have more honor and are more generous. 
   (Of course since we live on a peninsula, we have the right balance).
   Guess who was on our side when we were fighting for independence?
5) The Chinese drink alot.
6) Chinese are noisy.

I've had the fortune to meet a Chinese of Korean descent who lives
in gil-lim province( I forgot the Chinese pronuciation) where there
is an autonomous region. He told me some of the prejudices that
Chinese have of Koreans there are:

1) Koreans love to eat dogs.
2) The Koreans are aggressive go-getters but spend all the money they
   make on conspicuous consumption-especially dressing up.
3) Koreans are good cooks.
4) The Japanese are shifty and cunning and you can never figure out
   what they REALLY think but Koreans are more open and direct. 
   If you wrong a Korean they will get back at you right away but
   are also quick to forgive.
5) Koreans drink alot.
6) Koreans are noisy.


Historically, China and Korea were both agricultural societies,
and had alot of trouble with the nomadic mongolians/manchurians
due to their inability to raise large cavalry forces.
You find instances of the Chinese and Koreans being allies
as well as enemies. 
Early Korean kingdoms in Manchuria raised horses and herds
and sometimes allied themselves with nomads against the Han
Chinese. The defeat of Parhae(Bo-hai), where much of the ruling
class was of Korean-descent, by the Ku-ran(Khitan?), was the end of 
Korean presence in Manchuria. Later Korean kingdoms in the
peninsula were agricultural and usually allied themselves with
the Han Chinese against nomadic cavalry.

The major wars between Koreans and a unified Han China were: 
Han dynasty vs. old Chosun: Koreans surrendered 
Sui vs. Kokuryo: Sui Army routed.               
Tang vs. Kokuryo: Tang armies defeated.
Tang and Shilla vs. Kokuryo and Paekche:
       Shilla was a Korean kingdom. Shilla took the land of Paekche 
       and unified the peninsula, and Tang temporarily ruled
       manchuria, but lost it to Parhae which was founded by 
       remnants of Kokuryo and their nomadic allies.

Major wars between Koreans and China that was under the rule of
a nomads were:
Kublai Khan vs. Koryo : Koreans surrendered to the Khan
Qing vs. Chosun : Koreans surrendered to Qing
In both cases Koreans had sided with the Han chinese before.

Major alliances between Han Chinese and Koreans were:
Sung and Koryo vs. Manchurians and Mongolians
Ming and Chosun vs. Hideyoshi's Japan
Ming and Chosun vs. Qing
Sung and Koryo never fielded combined armies against the
Manchurians and Mongolians since they both were mostly on the
defensive. Ming sent an army to Korea that fought side by
side with Koreans against the invading Japanese. Chosun sent small
token forces to aid Ming against the Qing.

Alliances between China ruled by nomads and Koreans were
*Kublai Khan's attempted invasion of Japan
 The mongols never really trusted the Koreans - they chained
 the ships together fearing that the Korean sailors would
 desert them, and lost the fleet when the Kamikaze typhoon
 struck.
*Chosun sent 500 Korean musketeers to aid the Qing against Cossacks
 in border skirmishes on China's western frontier. This was several
 decades after Chosun had surrendered to the Qing.

Tributes from Koreans to Chinese Empires were usually voluntary when
China was ruled by Hans (Shilla-Tang, Koryo-Sung, Chosun-Ming). New 
Korean dynasties established their legitimacy by paying tribute and
receiving recognition from the 'Son-of-Heaven'(=ruler of China) in 
return, after overthrowing preceding dynasties. When nomadic nations
subjugated the Han chinese (Mongols under Kublai Khan, and Manchurians
in 17th c.) the Koreans resisted since they were 'barbarians' and paid 
tribute only after being defeated in long wars. Koreans fought the
Mongols for 40 years and Chosun defeated several Qing expeditions
before it surrendered.

Koreans and violence:
I learned in my elementary-high school days that Koreans were
pacifists always victimized by larger neighbors: Japan, nomads,
and China in the old days, Russia, China, Japan in early 20th c. 
and the USSR, PRC in modern times. I always felt that the idea
of us being pacifists was started as a plot by the Japanese to
make us more docile during their occupation. We did not survive
in our neighborhood by following methods advocated by Ghandi.
But the same can be said for the Vietnamese, Israelis, Poles,
Irish and other smaller nations that have larger neighbors.
Koreans are just as violent/peaceful as everybody else.

Koreans and Uzis:
Many Korean-Americans in LA told me that there is a disturbing trend
among younger Korean-Americans to buy and carry guns as a macho thing.
The elder Korean-americans think its caused by the younger ones
becoming Americanized... many high schools in the US have a real
headache with kids carrying guns.

Korea itself has VERY strict gun control laws. Gangland murders
in Korea are usually stabbings.

Storekeepers in rough neighborhoods of all races tend to keep some
firepower handy to scare robbers. When a mob is about to torch
your store, you tend to get REAL scared, and frightened people
with guns are always dangerous. The Koreans blasting away with
uzis you saw on TV is most likely the reaction of genuinely scared 
people with guns. Not any predisposition amongst Koreans for being
trigger-happy Rambo-wanna-bes.

-Han Kim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean