From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Keywords: Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be scientists...
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:40:58 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:

SM:  I got a piece of mail from the computer science department of an Ivy
SM:  League school the other day. The writer dropped a hint that there were
SM:  400 applications for one Assistant Professor position. (Name of the
SM:  school withheld to protect the sender.)
SM:  
SM:  At last count there are, perhaps, twenty or thirty open positions in
SM:  the US and Canada at that level. Ergo, at least a 1000% oversupply.
SM:  
SM:  At this point, I would NOT advise anyone to get a Ph.D. in computer
SM:  science, if they were doing it to work in academia. If you're planning
SM:  to do it, I'd say make other plans. Unless you're a superstar, you
SM:  probably don't have a chance.

KT: I do not know where you found out 20-30 open positions, or what type of
KT: positions these are.  

As I hope I indicated, they are assistant professor positions. I got
them by reading the trade magazines, or by word of mouth in some
cases. And it's just a rough guess, in any case, but probably accurate
within a factor of 2 either way.

KT: This is not necessarily THAT bad... consider there must be at a minimum
KT: 500 graduates from CS departments with PhD's every year.  Presumably
KT: many of these will apply for an "Ivy League" position, so one would expect
KT: a great number of applicants for that position.
KT:  You could ALWAYS get a job at a lower tier school,
KT: if you are willing to shift into 2 year schools. 

Even assuming that not all of these 400 people are interested in
teaching community college, it does give some indication of the number
of people who are applying for academic jobs of some sort. And besides
that, you don't need a Ph.D. to teach community college, so there's a
whole `nother batch of people competing at that level.

Look, Kenneth, you're a grown-up and I can't tell you what to do about
your career. But it doesn't seem to me like trying to enter academia
at the 4-year-and-postgrad college level is a great reason to go get a
Ph.D. right now. If you love the subject, fine. If you could just as
easily go to industry, fine. But doing it just to teach college isn't
very smart, and the numbers bear me out.

There are some exceptions: If you're female, black, Native American,
handicapped, or a Vietnam era veteran, you have a better chance. Or if
you're another Don Knuth or Bob Tarjan. But if you're not a superstar
and you're not on the affirmative action list, you don't have a
chance. 

KT: I don't know why anyone would want to be in academia anyway... can't you
KT: get research positions in industry, and wouldn't they pay more and have
KT: less pressure?  When I worked in industry it was a much better atmosphere,
KT: although it was not a research job.

I've been in industry and I disagree.

(Major peeving ON)

Windowless cubicles, vindictive bosses, phony deadlines, stupid rules
and games of Mother-may-I with petty bureaucrats, rush hours both
ways, congenitally stupid management suits generating pressure,
incompetent CEO's kids demanding Pablum, lies, confusion, quality
assurance Gestapos, corporate Quislings, and co-workers whose
intellect stops at Monday Night Sportsball and who just don't give a
shit about their work. And sweating for years on projects that come to
nothing, not through any fault of your own, but because the suits
don't think they're fun anymore, or because someone else 3000 miles
away screws up, or because the economy goes sour, or because it was
some manager's pet project that never gets used. If you like all that,
it's yours.

(Major peeving OFF)

And I know I'm speaking from the bad examples, and have actually been
in a place or two that wasn't like that. And may yet again.


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