From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Re: Re:
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:30:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.224550.7902@trl.oz.au>, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
> I will respond to Mr. Rached Zantout.
> 

> I beleive that all religions are created by Men. You call your God Allah, Christains
> Call him Allah, Jews call him Yehwa. I ask you this question? Does this God which is
> the same God really care how you worship him, and whether you should kill in his name
> as has haapened in history?.
As a muslim, my answer to the above question is:
1. Yes, Allah cares how you worship him. The first thing is to exclude any other diety and
   surrender to Him only as the only and one God, who created this universe and who will 
   bring upon the day of judgement and who created heaven and hell.

2. Killing in the name of Allah for Muslims can only be done in the battle, in war, or 
   when a Muslim commits a sin that ALLAH has put its punishment killing.
   The Human being is a very respected being in Islam whether he.she is a Muslim or not.
   
> 
> My evidence of this, is all the recent findings as I have indicated previously. Look at
> the epic of Gilgamish, many of the things there are closely paralled to the things in
> Jewish and christain religions. My understanding of Islam is that it shares many things
> with those two religions. Read the torah, you will find many missing arguments.
> Furthermore, the Aramaic people around Damascus believed in Mono-theism thay had a God
> called Eil, granted he was an animal. However, many religions at that time did so
> including at times the Jews.
> 


> It is my understanding that Khaled Bin Alwaleed was a Christian.

Well, Mr. Faris go back to the books of history and see for yourself. Khaled bin AlWalid
is the son of AlWalid Ibn Almughira. Khaled was a PAGAN from Quraish tribe. He is from Makkah
He fought against... yes against the Muslims in Uhud and was famous for his turning the loosing
of Quraish into winning when he attacked the Muslims from the back of Uhud mountain after the
Muslims whom Muhammad (peace be upon him) put as gards deserted their posts (some of them).
It was after this battle that Khalid Ibn Alwalid came to Madinah and accepted Islam. He was not
forced, in fact he had all the good reasons to stay a Mushrik (Pagan) since he recently defeated 
Muslims and inflicted damage to them. He was considered a Hero among his tribe. Yet, Allah says 
that He (Allah) controls the hearts of everybody and Khalid Ibn Alwalid became a Muslim. He 
participated in all the battles afterwards and was one of the commanders when Muslims opened
Makkah. Which by the way was years before Muslims went into Bilad Asham (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine,
Jordan etc...)

> 
> Also Christians and all minorities were discriminated agianst in the middle East, I
> will give you an example, Just early in this century the Alawite minority groups were
> forced to be slaves, farmers, and were killed where ever they were found by Muslims.
> This is the present cause of pres. Assad and his minority group to have a grip on the
> political system in Syria, and the fact he is primarly surounded by Alawites. 

Just for clarification Alawites consider themselves Muslims so the above is really a bad
example. 
Another point for you to think about is this:
non-muslim minorities were persecuted only when the leaders were corrupt. In fact those leaders
inflicted more damage on Muslims than on non-muslims in their time.
If you want I can dig up for you examples of minorities flourishing under Islam and how
Islam treats Muslims and NON-MUSLIM citizens of the Islamic state as equal in human rights.

> You are Totally Wrong!. People get dischanted because they want freedom, freedom to
> worship as they please, to organise as they please, and do what ever they please. No
> book, no god, nothing can force people to unite. Only goals and common agendas.
> The Islamic rule died because the power of the ruling body became WEAK. This happens in
> every civilisation or kingdom. When the SULTAH becomes weak, and people do not want to
> be part of that system, it breaks up and shatters as happend after the death of
> Mohammed and his Califs.
>

Still you didn't answer my question:
How do you explain uniting all those warring tribes under one banner and moreover converting them
from puppets in the hands of the superpowers at that time to defeaters of those superpowers.

To make it more clear it is as if a man comes and unites all the arab countries (which
are mutually at war nowadays) and then converts the newly emerging state into a superpower
that defeats all superpowers existing now. Don't you call this unification ?
Well this is what happened 1400 years ago and it was based on the beleive in Allah as one and only
God, and that Muhammad is his messenger.
 
> You live in a country that separates religion from state. It is also a country based on
> CHRISTIANITY not ISLAM. I lived in the US for 19 Years. All the great industrial
> nations are CHristians, all muslim nations are third world countries. So DO NOT MAKE A
> JOKE OF THAT!!!. IF it wasn't for the western know how and technology, you and I might
> still be sheppeards in the desert some where. All middle eastern countries rely on
> western technology for their daily lives, and they are christians. Even Isreal has
> managed to be come a first world country in less than 50 years. The people of the
> middle east were very powerful at one time but the religions have destroyed all of that.
>

Let me make it clear. Seperation of church and state means that western countries should
not be labeled as Christain or Islamic or whatever they are SECULAR states. In fact in those
19 years you have lived in United States you should have seen that the majority of people
(especially the new generations) do not subscribe to any religion. Moreover, were you to
tell any american that his country is a CHRISTAIN state he would be furious with you since they
value SECULARISM and the SEPERATION OF CHURCH and STATE very much. In fact the seperation
of church and state was one of the principles of the french revolution and it was what paved the
way for Europe to go out of the dark ages and into industrialization.
About the Islamic countries, they all (except a few) subscribe to the seperation of church and
state and therefore you cannot blame Islam for them being from the third world countries. If you
do so then you should blame christianity for the state of latin america as third world countries
don't you ?
  
rached
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