X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:08:09 PDT
Reply-To:     Perikles Konstantinides <perkon%girtab.usc.edu@USC.EDU>
From:         Perikles Konstantinides <perkon%girtab.usc.edu@USC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Whatizit PFK?
Comments: To: nikolaid@CC.GATECH.EDU
Comments: cc: hellas@uga.cc.uga.edu
              92 8:59 am

Apantw:

> Ma gi'auto einai na traba kaneis ta malia tou me sena re mastora.
> Apo thn mia exoume akousei tis apopseis sou peri Platoniko Fasismo
> all apo thn allh prospathontas na apotakseis ton
> laikismo/pseyto-ethnikismo bgaineis deksiotera tou basilia (so to say). Ama
> thes na apotakseis ton laikismo den baras (h brizeis) to samari (ton lao)
> alla ton gaidaro (thn morfwsh tou). Poly swsta parakatw les oti
> sxolia kai biblia xreiazomaste.

          Oxi Giannh: auto pou les mou 0umizei to epixeirhma "o plousios
     fonias einai egklhmatias, o ftwxos fonias einai 0uma ths koinwnias".
     H paideia pou phra ki egw sto sxoleio htan atelhs kai h istoria pou
     didaxthka biased klp, omws, elpizw kai nomizw, ema0a monos mou
     orismena pragmata kai den perasa tis meres mou stis kafeteries kai
     ta bradua mou stis disco. An kai einai safes oti xreiazetai perissoterh
     kai kaluterh paideia, auto den dinei afesh amartiwn stous loumpen
     neo-patriwtes....

> Malista einai poly astoxo na
> thewreis oti mia morfh laikismou einai h "mazikopoihsh"
> antidrasewn apenanti se periodika opws kalh wra symbainei edw
> kai ligo kairo.

          Blepw pou exei katalhxei h "praktikh" auth edw sthn Amerikh kai
      me pianei sugkruo. To skeftesai: "Mpoukotaz twn proiontwn ths Motor
      Oil epeidh h Meshmbrinh egrapse to tade sxolio"....

> Ayto pou isws se enoxlei perissotero einai oti yparxei pithanothta (kai
> edafos) oi "mprostarhdes" tetoiwn "kinhtopoihsewn" na einai (a) ysterobouloi,
> (b) abatheis -- kai ara telika "epikindynoi" stnn ylopoihsh tou
> pragmatikou skopou -- kai (c) isws se periorismenes periptwseis thrasydeiloi.
> Ksana omws ayto metafrazetai se kritikh kapoiwn "ypokinhtwn" kai oxi
> tou "laou" pou akolouthei.

           Oxi, kai pali, Giannh: auto einai san thn rhtorikh tou KKE.
     "O laos den ftaiei gia tipote, oi kapitalistes kai oi domes ftaine"...
      Ean einai ta pragmata opws ta les Giannh duo pragmata mporw na
      upo0esw: 1. Eite o laos einai anwrimh, agomenh kai feromenh maza, 'h
      2. H diadikasia ths paideias emperiexei kapoio stoixeio pou metatrepei
      agomenes kai feromenes mazes se skeftomenous polites. To prwto den
      nomizw oti to pisteueis. To deutero einai atopo: h paideia sthn
      patrida mas einai upoxrewtikh kai an kai atelhs, oloi hr0an se
      epafh mazi ths.... Blepeis; Ftanoume pali sto zhthma ths atomikhs
      eu0unhs (xwris, tonizw, na paragnwrizoume thn shmasia beltiwmenhs
      paideias).

> To sygekrimeno fainomeno tou Ellhnikou
> ethnikismou twn teleytaiwn mhnwn einai aksio thaymasmou gia merikous
> logous:
> (a) ginetai apodekto oti taboo ths Aristeras opws h Boreia Hpeiros
>     den stekoun pleon --

          H aristera sthn Ellada htan panta 15-20%. Gia to upoloipo 80%
      h Boreios Hpeiros den htan taboo pote. Den milage to 80%. Auto omws
      den shmainei oti sumfwnouse me tous kraxtes tou Perissou.

> (b) oi theseis twn ksenwn xartografoune thn Ellhnikh ekswterikh politikh me
>     tropo pou den exei symbei edw kai xronia (apo to Kypriako kai meta) --

          Auto ontws einai shmantiko. Omws: eginan la0h. Oxi anepanor0wta.
      Omws eginan la0h ta opoia egw apodidw sthn exarsh neo-patriwtismou.
      Epanalambanw: des ton logo Delors kai tis dhlwseis tou sthn A0hna.

> (c) prosfata leitourghse san PH-test ths Rwsikhs "oksythtas" me thaymasta
>     eyrhmata --
> (d) anagazei ton me then kalh ennoia taytismo "kratous" kai "ethnous" pou
>     ton eixame parekshghsei kai alloiwsei --

          Ki auto kalo, me prosoxh omws.

> (e) dhmiourgei toulaxiston (kai ayto apo mono tou aksizei) eyryterh synenaish
>     ston Ellhniko lao --

          Auto einai KAKO. Auto einai paromoio me to "As paroume tous
      Olumpiakous tou '96 gia na ftiaxoume thn A0hna"... O Ellhnikos laos
      exei polu sobarwtera pragmata gia na ton enopoihsoun apo ta Skopia.
      Katalabaineis ti lew; Den einai anagkh na psaxnoume gia texnhtes
      kai sunais0hmatikes aities gia na ginoume filoi.

> Ayto pou ennow otan lew oti DEN einai kako na mas kybernoun kai
> "aristoi" kamia fora exei na kanei me kathara-ksera texnokratismo
> sthn politikh ygesia. Kai apo oti blepw apo to parapanw apospasma sou
> telika symfwneis. Blepeis poioi einai oi "aristoi" sthn koinwnia
> alla den tous blepeis na kybernoun. E loipon, ayto akribws ennow, oti
> einai kalo na kybernoun kai aytoi pote pote. An oxi toso gia na
> perigrapsoun to "orama" tou ethnous, toulaxiston gia na to
> "ylopoihsoun".

           Sumfwnw apolutws: kairos einai loipon na bgoun apo ta palatia
        tou Olumpiou Dianooumenismou tous, na baloun upopshfiothta kai
        na peisoun ton kosmo oti xreiazetai episthmones sthn Kubernhsh,
        oxi ton Tsobola kai ton Koubela.....

> H thesh tous mexri akoma kai tis meres mas einai na tous xrhsimopoioun
> gia "damage assessment" porismata alla parallhla tous apotrepoun apo
> ton sxediasmo kai thn ektelesh.

            Kaneis den tous apotrepei. Einai bolemenoi ki autoi. Sumbouloi,
        para-sumbouloi, anti-sumbouloi.... Kai den 0eloun kai enoxlhsh....

> >           Stoxos tou politikou einai h epaneklogh tou, opws stoxos tou
> >      ka0hghth einai to tenure, tou mousikou h epituxia kai h anagnwrish,
> >      tou manager h dieu0unsh kai tou podosfairisth to gkol. Den
> >      einai zhthma an0rwpinwn adunamiwn.
>
> Gloup! Katse ligo, an opws les, stoxos tou politikou einai h epaneklogh
> tote gia ti diaolo mporei na ton exoume anagh oi ypoloipoi kai ton
> eklegoume. Ti eleges peri pisths ston Koinobouleytismo parapanw?
> Tribw ta matia mou...

              Oi politikoi einai, kai PREPEI na einai, epaggelmaties
         diaxeiristes twn koinwn. Fantazesai prwtarh Ypourgo Exwterikwn;
         Auto den exei sxesh me ton Koinobouleutismo. Oi upoloipoi ton
         exoume anagkh gia na diaxeirizetai ton dhmosio proupologismo,
         na ekproswpei thn xwra sto exwteriko kai na diasfalizei thn
         thrhsh twn nomwn kai tou suntagmatos. Otan pshfizeis, ideata,
         den pshfizeis ton Mhtsotakh, pshfizeis to programma ths ND.

> >           H idiaiterothta tou politikou einai oti diaxeirizetai ton
> >      dhmosio korbana, kai EKEI einai to koumpi, oxi sthn epi0umia tou
> >      na epaneklegei. O politikos 0a dhmagwgei oso briskei pelateia
> >      gia tetoiou eidous politikh parousia. Ean o kosmos pei kapoia
> >      stigmh: gia siga, ti nomizeis oti trwme, koutoxorto;, tote
> >      mallon h dhmagwgia 0a stamathsei 'h 0a meiw0ei. Des ton politiko
> >      san epixeirhmatia: he has to make money and the only way is to keep
> >      the customer happy.
>
> Edw anatrepeis to prohgoumeno, kai me mperdeyeis anepanorthwta.

              Giati re Giannh; Ti anatrepw; Sou xanalew: o politikos einai
         foreas politikhs kai koinwnikwn boulhsewn. Douleia tou einai h
         diaxeirhsh tou kratous kai stoxos tou h epaneklogh tou - h diathrhsh
         ths douleias tou dhladh. Allazei otan allazei kai h eklogikh
         pelateia tou. Pou blepeis thn antifash;

> Pisteyw oti telika den pisteyeis
> oti (toulaxiston monos) skopos tou politikou einai h epaneklogh.
> Kako paradeigma metaksy epixeirhmatia kai politikou. O epixeirhmatias
> mporei kata boulhsh na xrhsimopoihsei thn diafhmish/mesa-enhmerwshs
> gia na dhmagwghsei/poulhsei. Einai shmantiko na poulhsei alloiws
> den yparxei kan h ennoia epixeirhmatias. Sthn periptwsh tou politikou
> o katanalwths ypografei "en leykw" bazontas pisth ston politiko xwris
> na dei kan emporeyma. Ayto dinei kai ston politiko thn dynatothta
> na kyberna kai na dusaresthsei.

             Gi' auto uparxoun ekloges ka0e 4 xronia. Stis perissotero
       politika exeligmenes xwres (px HPA, Elbetia) uparxei kai laikh
       summetoxh sthn lhpsh apofasewn (px apokentrwsh, dhmosies akroaseis
       gia thn egkrish dapanwn klp).

> Stamataw edw gia thn wra giati phge makrya to kalathi.

             Sumfwnw.... :-)

> Xairetw
>
> Giannhs
> GaTech/Atlanta

pfk
southern cal
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