HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Su-27 or  F-16 which one is better???????????????
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:10:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.141919.1942@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, zliu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Zhong Liu) writes...
>Maybe it's time to compare which one is superior, Su-27 or F-16?
>If Su-27 is superior, the mainland government doesn't need to
>worry about the sale to Taiwan and for Taiwan, it's just a money
>waste. Can any of "military expert" netters tell the specifications
>about these two planes like max speeds, climbing speeds, fighting
>range and weapons?
> 
>Z. Liu

Please refer to my previous post. It is not a matter of weapon
itself. It is the matter of the SOVEREIGNTY of a country.

One information told me that before Bush made the decision, he
consulted CIA officials. He got a recommendation which said
that Beijing, with its advanced and still advancing military
capability, could wipe out those F-16's very easily. So the old
man thought his old friend in Beijing would give him some
help in this election. Oops! He got that wrong!!!!

Just a joke. Is today April the first? Oh, my calendar was
wrong!

Any way, have fun!
c.q.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25200 soc.culture.taiwan:13075
From: smw@siegfried.chm.msu.edu (S.M. Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:54:00 GMT
Reply-To: smw@siegfried.chm.msu.edu (S.M. Wu)
Organization: Michigan State University


I hope somebody can clarify this for me. What did the Taiwan government
says about this? From what I heard on TV, so far it is only Bush 
said that he is willing to sale the planes. Does this means that 
Taiwan wants to buy some F-16s very bad, and Bush finally approve
it. Or is the US wants to sell some F-16s and asking Taiwan to buy some?
Is Taiwan definitly going to buy them?

I have this question because Avaition Weeks mentioned briefly a few weeks
ago that Russia has formally offered to sale Mig-29 to Taiwan. Probably 
Bush knows that Taiwan will get hi-tech fighter one way or the other. If he
does not make an offer now, the business will go to someone else.

By the way, does anyone has information on the new fighters designed by 
Taiwan? One of them looks like a cross between F-16 and F-18.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:24801 soc.culture.taiwan:12863 soc.culture.hongkong:10463
From: cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:10:50 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Sep4.152707.3933@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He) writes:
>
>If commies use military force, I probably  won't be able to  see the 
>brutal unification happen because I (I believe a lot more Taiwanese as well) 
>will fight to my last breath to resist invasion from China.
>And I guess mainlanders have to sleep more carefully after 
>military take-over, because we, our son, our grandgrand son 

>will be foe forever.

  
    Look, you are warning or threating the Chinese in
mainland. You take the mainland Chinese as enimies, why?
Actually your Chinese-blood brothers and sisters
living in mainland don't want to fight with the Chinese
in Taiwan. We admire Taiwan's miracle on economy and we
are proud of Taiwan Chinese for their showing to the world 
that Chinese could build its glory. After coming to the
States, I have many Taiwanese friends and schoolmates. 
My general impression is they are usually friendly, helpful  
and reliable. The deepest is most of students from Taiwan
know more Chinese history, geography and culture or
literature than students from mainland China. They even
speak Chinese with excellent pronounciation, much better
than some of our mainlaners do.
    I believe military action would be the last choice by CG
if Taiwan declare independence. And currently it's only a
political and diplomatic necessity.
    "Xiang1 Jian1 He2 Ji2!". Chinese bloodsh will only benefit
some countries. We have to spend a huge amount of money to
by F-16 or Su-27, and their economy and employment would be     
improved built on the death of Chinese if Chinese civil war
again! 
    BTW, please remember, Chinese will only fight with those
Taiwan seperatists and could extinguish them there definitely,
no matter how many breaths they have.
From: yunson@lpf.umd.edu (Yunson Du)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Japanese Imperial Army Was Invited by CCP?
Date: 5 Sep 92 16:56:56 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <2569@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
>zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>
>>The above speculation is confirmed by my grandchildren,
>
>I guess you mean't grandparents....
>
>>who were on the scene, on that day of 1937, at the Marco 
>>Polo Bridge.
>
>>At the time, CCP forced a couple of the Japanese 
>>soldiers to make some water. Since they were too slow 
>>in doing that...(you know what happened.)
>
>They didn't say anything about shots being invovled?
>
>Dave
>
>--
>Dave McLane 
>JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
>Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

It is funny, Dave. You didn't get it? ;-)

Yunson Du

University of Maryland
College Park, MD
From: bub@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Cai
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:14:25 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

Dose any one in Canada knows Cai Bin from Wuhan. Mail the information to
 weisheng@mercator.sv.qut.edu.au

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:37:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.210312.2293@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> 
> >> Don't be so sure, learn something about US civil war. I begain to  
understand
> >> why Americans are still talking about this a lot nowadays.
> 
> >Why shall we alway copy the US? Each time we discuss something about China,  
you  
> 	Learning is not copy. We are learning here, that is why.
> >guys often compare the issue with that in the US. The US is not the  
standard. 
> 
> >As for the US civil war, if you had let all the black people vote then, I  
think  
> >the majority of the population in the south would have support Lincoln's  
> >decision. Do you know the difference? Think about it!
> 	Do you know even today, black people is till minority. Do you know
> 	how many of them vote today?
> 

Well, the percentage of black in southern states were quite large at time of  
American Civil War. Even now, the percentage is still large in the south after  
many Eurpean immigrants settled in the US after 1990. Just for your  
information.

I believe all of them would vote at that crucial point which determined their  
fate.

Carl

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 12 Sep 92 10:06:04 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne


In article <1992Sep11.182147.6618@ms.uky.edu>, gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
|> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
|> 
|> >Yes! I am the guy who asked Chinese to build a strong China. The point is,  
|> >through what kind of path. I think the most important issures are still  
|> >democracy and realistic economic policy. Without them, you really can not  
|> >realize your goal to build a strong China. I don't think Guangdong or Fujian or  
|> >Yunan or Heilongjiang will ask for independence at the mount (hopefully never)  
|> >because people there still won't choose to be independent. If China doesn't  
|> >change it's current system, sooner or later, there will be more and more people  
|> >want to leave. Then CG will not be able to stop them. The reason why people  
|> >still choose to stay there is because the situation is still tolerable. If the  
|> >countries around us continue developing while we are still further left behind  
|> >using so-called "China's special situation" as an excuse, if CG continues it's  
|> >oppressing policy, then I bet more and more people will choose to break away.
|> 
|> >Don't blame others. 
|> 
|> >Carl
|> 
|> Are you sure after getting democracy, ex-Soviet prople like to get together?
|> Are you sure there were a lot of warlords in early 20th was not because that
|> Sun Zhong Shan wanted to build democracy, and he even let one of them got
|> the position of President, who later declared to be an emperor? Are you sure
|> Bei3 Fa2 (operation of north atack) was a democratic election campion?
|> Are you telling us at that time Chinese should have elected their
|> representitive? What would happen if they did not elect the warlord?
|> Are you sure US also has this 'China's special situation'?
|> Are you sure during US civil war, South did not vote for independent? Why they
|> wanted to? I bet you will say Lincoln did not respect the people of South.
|> Use the brain when speaking.

The world has changed unless you don't want changes. 

Lin Can
=========================================================================
.-- .... --- . ...- . .-. -.. . -.-. --- -.. . ... - .... .. ...
--. . - ... -. --- - .... .. -. --.        
.-.. .. ..-. . .. ... ... .... --- .-. - .-- --- .-. -.- .... .- .-. -..
                                                   .-.. .. -. -.-. .- -.
=========================================================================
                                          

Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25012 soc.culture.taiwan:12964 soc.culture.korean:4228 soc.culture.hongkong:10535
From: S.L.F.Cheng@newcastle.ac.uk (S. Cheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Xiangqi e-mail formats
Date: 8 Sep 92 00:02:39 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU


       
Well, Matt...the preferred versions should be thus:




                  Xiangqi Fig 1.              
           
    9  c---m---x---s---w---s---x---m---c
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    8   --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    7   ---a--- --- --- --- --- ---a--- 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    6  b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    5   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ 
       |                               |
    4   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    3  Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z      
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    2   ---A--- --- --- --- --- ---A---
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    1   --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    0  C---M---X---S---W---S---X---M---C

       a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i




                   Changgi? Fig 2.

    9  c---m---x---s--- ---s---x---m---c
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    8   --- --- --- ---w--- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    7   ---a--- --- --- --- --- ---a--- 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    6  b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    5   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |                         
    4   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    3  Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z      
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    2   ---A--- --- --- --- --- ---A---
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    1   --- --- --- ---W--- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    0  C---M---X---S--- ---S---X---M---C

       a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Are there major ethnic divisions inside China?
Keywords: Ethnic, conflict, democracy
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:22:04 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep3.195213.2773@u.washington.edu> ski@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Wasierski) writes:
>However, China has always struck me as a relatively homogeneous society --
>similar to Japan (if you will excuse the comparison).  

Actually, this is quite wrong.  China is one of the most
anthropologically diverse places on Earth.  There are about 60
recognized minority groups, and even within the majority Han ethnic
group, there are huge differences between the different provinces.
For example, there are hundreds of different "dialects" of the Chinese
language, most of which are mutually unintelligible.

>With the obvious 
>exception of Tibet, I can't think of any major ethnic conflicts that would
>break out within the country should its current strong government dissolve.

Same here.  Part of the difference is that the Mainland government has
(with some major exceptions) generally maintained a more enlightened
policy toward differences, than either Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union.
As a result of that, there hasn't been too much ethnic bitterness
develop.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:03:22 EDT
From: <YXZ100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: To those pro Shen Tong guys

In message of <9209081812.AA19669@NW12-326-5.MIT.EDU>, it is written:
 Was I a so-called D-fighter?  Am I crying for "democracy" like ST?  Did I
advocate "revolution"? :)

>If Not, what/why should I take that responsibility?  Give me your "logic" here.

>Listen, still the old rules: If you want to play, take your responsibility.
>If you do not have the courage, just do not play.  Fleeing and begging for
foreign interference won't do you any good.  Uncle Sam never did/will bring
democracy to anywhere!

You want the logic?  Here it is:
If Shen Tong called himself a D-fighter, if he cried for ``democratic", then
he did take his responsibility by going back to China.  If he took the respon-
sibility, then he did have the courage.
Let's look at your side:
If you claimed that to have a courage is to take a responsibility, then going
back to China, which shows a responsibility, is a courageous behavior. If you
say that this isn't courageous, then where is your logic?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's arrest
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:53:23 GMT

In article <2SEP199211110559@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>Anybody read yesterday's article on talk.politics.china about
>Shen Tong's arrest? 
>
>Accoding to that article, Shen's going back hoem and being arrested
>was set up by some American PR organization in order to win the 
>Protection Bill and to embarrase the CCP. Sounds pretty fishy to
>me.

  Really fishy to you?  Mind explaining a little bit?

>What do you think?

  Why you are so eager to repeat the "fishy" report.

>c.q. 

-ping

Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25338 soc.culture.taiwan:13190
From: laiichung@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (L. D. ROPER)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:13:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BuFG56.A0w@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes...
>In article <lb1ko4INNd4g@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)

= I totally agree with you , Mr.Li . It's a pratical way of viewing this deal .
  People thought this will provide KMT a way in beating CCP is pretty stupid .
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25001 soc.culture.korean:4218 soc.culture.taiwan:12955 soc.culture.hongkong:10531
From: S.L.F.Cheng@newcastle.ac.uk (S. Cheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Changgi and xiangqi via e-mail
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:49:13 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU


       





                  Xiangqi Fig 1.              
           
    9  c---m---x---s---w---s---x---m---c
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    8   --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    7   ---a--- --- --- --- --- ---a--- 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    6  b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    5   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    4   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    3  Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z      
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    2   ---A--- --- --- --- --- ---A---
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    1   --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    0  C---M---X---S---W---S---X---M---C

       a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i



C,c...............chariot (che1)

M,m...............horse, cavalry (ma3)

X,x...............elephant (xiang4)

S,s...............adviser, official, courtier, minister (shi4)

W,w...............commander, chieftain, general (jiang1,shi1)

A,a...............artillery, cannon, catapult (pao4)

Z,b...............infantry, soldier (zu2, bing1)


                   Changgi? Fig 2.

    9  c---m---x---s--- ---s---x---m---c
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    8   --- --- --- ---w--- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    7   ---a--- --- --- --- --- ---a--- 
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    6  b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b--- ---b
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    5   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ 
       |                               |
    4   ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    3  Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z--- ---Z      
       |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
    2   ---A--- --- --- --- --- ---A---
       |   |   |   | \ | / |   |   |   |
    1   --- --- --- ---W--- --- --- ---
       |   |   |   | / | \ |   |   |   |
    0  C---M---X---S--- ---S---X---M---C

       a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i


Does anybody know the rules of Changgi (Korean Chess)?
I have lost the rules of the game given to me by Park Hye Young,
a Korean friend.
Apparently, you can play Chinese Chess via e-mail using the
ASCII text board. The original YONG format (C.H. Yong) for xiangqi is given in figure 1. The Changgi version (?) is in 
Fig 2.



Matthew Anderson (borrowed account)
From: lixj@terra.rutgers.edu (Xiao-jian Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: I care,Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:37:48 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

rot@rlyeh.multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:

>Exactly, Chinese is THE foreigner who try to invade Taiwan.
I see, this is one of those TIers who tried so hard and still
couldn't shit. Go somewhere in the middle of Pacific and build 
your republic.

>Mr. Zhang (probably a CCP-er) said it is VERY UNLIKELY that
you run out of your argument, don't you?

>Mr. Zhang must believe Taiwanese are all as stupid as he is.
well, TIers are stupid that they still look after moon in the water.

>Example, [story of Z rape T's wife delete]
Mr. Republic of Taiwan is having a big fantasy his wife been raped while
he got none.

>=will invade Taiwan. Even if the Mainland does invade Taiwan, it would
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>=be a piece of cake to do so. Adding a few planes to its airforce won't 

>Now here is Mr. Zhang's, Zha's and Z's real face. They want to
>invade Taiwan after all those sweet talks.
>Now we can see how evil they are.
CCP is so eager to take over Taiwan and has the military might to do it
(unless you are intentionally blind not to see it). When they are
invited by those TIers, they would be very happy. This is the last thing
most of us would like to see. I suspect some of Tiers are just CCP
spies.

>Good. They may kill their own students to sooth their fury.
and some creature calling himself human being makes fun of it and cheers
deep in his heart (though I doubt he really got one).

>Gee, they want Taiwanese to buy their junks! Taiwanese would rather
>give them some money to bury their junk in their back yard.
Gee, I remember it is the Republic of China who bought the planes.
When did the ROC become representative of ROT?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: The purpose of a country. (Was: F-16's fear?)
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:18:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.164120.10785@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.134939.12523@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu  
>(Tingli Pan) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep9.203846.25381@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu  
>(Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>> >>
>> .......
>> >>- Allan
>> >
......
>
>In fact, some large companies are also dismantled into smaller ones because  
>they are not efficient and reluctant to develop themselves. There are quite a  
>lot of such examples. I think it's natural that companies merge and divide  
>according to the need of market, as long as it is good to the economy and the  
>employees as well as employers. Same to the countries. As long as it is good to  
>the people, it does not matter that countries merge and devide. Let the people  
>make their choices.
>
What ever happens to a company, the emplyees rarely have a say to the
decision. Of course, running a company is a typical undemocratic system.
I heard some scholars talking about a totalization system exist in a
democratic system. So, when ever talking about democracy, a company is
usually the last one to be mentioned.

>I think it's good to keep Taiwan in its current status. It's good to both  
>Taiwan and mainland. It's always important to have something to check and  
>balance the social systems. I think Taiwan's 43-year-seperation from mainland  
>at least checks and balances mainland politics to some degree. 
>
Fine with me. But I'm just a nobody. The CCP wants to .... The KMT wants
to go back to China, the DDP wants to separate it. The current situation
is only a delicate balance among all parties.

>Carl

Tingli Pan  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,alt.chinese.text,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.korean
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: xiangqi via email/Hz file with Chinese board
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:13:54 GMT

In article <BuKFFI.8z3@newcastle.ac.uk> S.L.F.Cheng@newcastle.ac.uk (S. Cheng) writes:
>
>OK..this works, does that mean we're going to have a xiangqi
>email tournament? Give us a shout if you're organising one.
>
>
>Matt Anderson
>
>borrowed account
>
>      

I am not going to organize it, but if anyone is interested in playing
xiangqi with me, please send me email. Again, I am just a mediocre
player. Maybe we can work out something.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china