From: jbates@pinocchio.encore.com (John Bates)
Subject: Re: Reason for abortions
Organization: Encore Computer
	<JBATES.92Apr16102657@pinocchio.pinocchio.encore.com>
	<1992Apr16.231507.25186@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:56:51

In article <1992Apr16.231507.25186@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> 
shadow@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Paulus) writes:
>In article <JBATES.92Apr16102657@pinocchio.pinocchio.encore.com> 
jbates@pinocchio.encore.com (John Bates) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.235219.27246@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> 
shadow@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Paulus) writes:

>That part is obvious. But what about the cost? (Here is the major source of
>conflict)

	What cost? Are you talking about the cost of abortion vs. the cost 
of pregnancy? Abortions cost quite a bit less than a pregnancy. Or are you
referring to "Post Abortion Syndrome", for which pro-life Surgeon General C.
Everett Koop was unable to find any evidence?

> To be honest, I don't know percentages. But to my knowledge, there are
>no studies which say that abortions help in breaking poverty. EDUCATION--which
>can give women respect that they deserve can help prevent pregnancies & raise
>people out of poverty (not just contraception; but education that can focus
>one's priorities).

	Who claims that you can break the poverty cycle by having an abortion?
Who claims that having an abortion does anything for the woman other than end
her pregnancy? You're just setting up a strawman, here.

>>	Having an abortion will not get you anything, except for not 
>>pregnant. It may keep you from slipping further into poverty. Don't
>>you believe that will help?

>No, this really won't help. Women don't get suddenly (or even slowly) get
>respect because they had an abortion. Good jobs don't have motherhood as a
>requirement or deterrent. Respect & responsibilty, however, are major factors.

	It will keep you from being pregnant. WOMEN DO NOT GET ABORTIONS FOR
RESPECT OR FOR MONEY. THEY HAVE ABORTIONS SO THEY WON'T BE PREGNANT. From
whence cometh this strawman?

>>
>>> BTW, isn't the reason why inner city teenage moms have babies is
>>>because they need someone to love them? 
>>
>>	This has to be the stupidest thing I have read in a.a.i.

>You say this is stupid. Why? How many inner city moms do you know. I have to
>confess, I don't know any first hand. You may dismiss this message altogether,
>but a counselor from Chicago Urban Ministries spoke at Northwestern University
>on his work; the reason why some (he didn't mention statistics, though I'm
>sure you could find some) inner city girls get pregnant is because they need
>someone to love them. Their parents (if they're around) probably don't love
>them, neither does the government, pro-choicers, or the people they sleep
>with.But a baby can.   Whether or not these mothers can take care of these
>children is another story.

	All right, on reflection, it was not the stupidest thing. It is,
however, irrelevant to the topic of abortion. Why a woman decides to *have*
a baby is completely irrelevant to the question of whether a woman should
be able to decide to terminate a pregnancy.

>>
>>> One other question to the people who are "pro-choice": what have you
>>>(personally or collectively) to really ensure CHOICE (I.E. support for women
>>>who want to have their babies)?
>>
>>	I do my share. Do you?
>>
>>
>>John

>Could you be more specific on what you do? I.E. have you helped unwed mothers
>carry their baby to term (in some direct or indirect way).

>Personally, I'm doing various things, for all stages of life. For example,
>this week end I helped out overnight at a homeless shelter. (BTW, in case you
>didn't know. quite a few of the homeless are VERY nice people, who really
>deserve more help than they get.)

	Listen, the reason I didn't specify was because I don't believe that
boasting about volunteer work is quite, well, right. I volunteer and perform
public services because I can, and not because I want to come here and talk
about them. It is a private thing. However, I do believe that the most that
anyone *owes* to society is to pay their taxes. That should be sufficient
to ensure CHOICE. Anything beyond that is just icing on the cake.

>--JP--

John
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity