From: wloka@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Markus G. Wloka)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: survey on semi-auto rifles (long)
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:13 GMT


Here is a survey on purchasing a semi-automatic rifle.  I would to thank all
those who responded.  While my initial focus was on foreign-made rifles, there
was a lot of advocates for the US-made AR-15 and the M1. 

# ---------------------------------------------------------------------
# I am considering the purchase of a semiautomatic rifle, of the "evil" assault
# rifle variety, and would like to get some net advice on what to get.
# 
# My evaluation criteria are:
# 
# (++) Accuracy. The purpose of the rifle is plinking at targets, and learning
# to shoot at 100-300 meter distances.  I would like to get accuracy that is
# close to that of a rotating bolt rifle.
# (++) Reliability.  I would like the rifle to feed even under adverse
# circumstances.
# (+) Scope mount is a must.
# (+) An exchangeable folding stock would be nice to have.
# (+) I would like to have a light trigger for target shooting.  The rifle
# should therefore have a decent trigger pull, or it should be possible to
# install a new trigger group. 
# 
# () Budget ~$1200, for new or almost new rifle.
# 
# (--) Home defense: I don't plan to use the rifle for self-defense, since a
# rifle bullet is likely pierce 2-4 neighbor houses (drywall plus 1 inch
# concrete-shell walls) in case of a miss. 
# 
# Candidates are:
# 
# HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
# when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  
# 
# Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?
# FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?
# FN 223: 
# Others?
# Please email me your comments, and I will post a summary on the net.
# -
# Markus G. Wloka                 Email: wloka@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
# Motorola Inc., MD: AZ 34 EL510  Tel:   602 897 4452
# 2100 E. Elliot Road             FAX:   602 897 3518
# Tempe, Arizona 85284    
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From whale.st.usm.edu!dnewcomb@uunet.uucp Fri Oct  2 16:09:55 1992

If you can find one for  sale and get it for $1200 the SA version
of  the Swiss Stgw90 would fit to a "T". If you ever plan to shoot
it  in a rifle  match, I would get a HBAR Sporter and have it
fixed  up as a "Leg" gun, otherwise, the straight HBAR is good
for what you want.

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet  

---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From UIHEPA.HEP.UIUC.EDU!CBL@uunet.uucp Fri Oct  2 18:57:34 1992

#HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
#when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  

	Very unfounded. I have never known a HK-91 to jam when the problem
	is not ammo or magazine related. Accuracy is ~2" (5cm) at 100 yards
	with good ammo and a good gun. 
#
#FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?

	From my limited experience the FN's suck. but that's only
	one data point.


	The only gun that satisfies your requirements is a match
	grade M1A/M14. They _can_ be had for $1200 or so, and they
	will do sub inch groups. The problem is that most people
	only want to spend $200 for a .5" capable semi-auto rifle.
	It can't be done.


*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From qing.UCSD.EDU!bigham@uunet.uucp Fri Oct  2 19:17:27 1992

It's getting more difficult to find folding stocks 
for these beasts, but believe me they're worth it.
Having been in the military, and an interest in "evil" guns in 
general, I have a few comments:

1. most of the foreign stuff is very difficult to aquire these 
days, with the exeption of HK. 
2. You must decide whether .223 or .308 is your goal. I had a .223
mini-14 and an ar-15. I've used almost all of the others. Recently
I got bored at the 100-300 meter range and upped to a M-14. 

	As for .308, the M-14 is probubly "the" most reliable. It
won the competition against the HK and the FN FAL in the '50's, no
coincidence here. M-14 is a very clean firing gun. No gas everywhere
as in the HK. The M-14 also has the highest muzzle velocity of any
other .308 which translates to a bit more accuracy.
-HK`s are very dirty and crunch brass so reloading is out. It's a 
more comfortable weapon, though. 
-Galils are good but pricy - reliable Kalashnikov system-not as accurate
as say a 14.
-FN's are accurate and reliable, but sometimes when dirty don't feed.
I've seen this before- very finichy about it's ammo. Also pricy. $1300
is not uncommon.
-M-76 Valmet- a good but rare .308 rifle of ak type.

Keep in mind the cost of accessories and where to find them. M-14 is 
probubly the most accurate, then FN, then HK. (I've never had great
luck with HK accuracy) but keep in mind there's tricks to accuracize
anything if you got the bucks. Almost anything is more friendly to handle than an M-14..carry handles, pistol grips, etc. You must weigh the importance.
	For .223, 
-The most accurate is the HBAR Colt sporter. Bar none. A dirty gun,
direct gas action. Can be unreliable if dirty, but to tell the truth,
I've used these in the Gulf as well as at home, and I haven't had many
problems. Very convienent, especially in combat. Ergonomics well
thought out.
-mini-14 not to accurate, but utterly reliable. Cheap too. 
-AK's some acctually shoot .223. Don't buy Chinese. No AK was designed
for  accuracy. Reliability is the game.
-FN FNC is a AK made more easy to use like the M-16
-AUG`s are too expensive.
-Deawoo- good value--m-16 magazines..

Call me and ask opinions if you like when you decide on the caliber.

Good luck,

Chuck
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From acs.ucalgary.ca!csarie@uunet.uucp Fri Oct  2 19:47:34 1992

Dear Markus,
	I suggest that you get the product information video that
HK puts out. It excellently demonstrates the effectiveness of the
HK-91. One clip shows where the extractor was removed from the
rifle and they fired 2, 20rnd mags without failure to feed or
extract. Needless to say I was impressed. I'm not sure where you
can get your hands on this video as one of my shooting buddies
loaned it to me, prehaps if you write the factory they could send
you some more specific info. By the way, that same friend has a
`91 and has no complaints. Especially since it groups 1.5" at
100yrds using winchester G.I. ammo.
	I also have a question for you. Could you please point me
in the direction of a good dealer for HK's or Valmets, up here in
Canada they are extremely rare and costly. I would greatly
appreciate any info. Thanks in advance.
			Sincerely,
				Chad Arie

Address: csarie@.ucalgary.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From afit.af.mil!lriggins@uunet.uucp Sat Oct  3 09:07:32 1992

#(--) Home defense: I don't plan to use the rifle for self-defense, since a
#rifle bullet is likely pierce 2-4 neighbor houses (drywall plus 1 inch
#concrete-shell walls) in case of a miss. 

NONE of these rifles would be justifiable to a jury as home defense weapons.
The only home defense you should be doing is INSIDE your house and for that
rifles and shotguns are a POOR substitute for a handgun.  Try manuvering
inside the house with a 40" broomstick.  See how much harder and slower it
is to get on target and how much easier it is for someone to take the gun
away from you.  Even for outside defense in a populated area, the combat
shotgun is superior.  Number 1 buckshot is effective out to about 30 - 40
yards, but won't penetrate neighbors outside walls.  If you have to reach
out a bit, the rifled slug will go 100 yards.  But unless they're shooting
at you, AND you have no opportunity for cover, you're gonna have one hell
of a time justifying a target at >10 - 20 yards as a threat.  And that's
well within handgun range.  But anyway, here's some comments.

#HK-91 308:

Barrel is extremely accurate, but like most evil military style weapons,
needs a trigger job for accurate shooting.  Williams does a good one.
Also available are "target" trigger groups, like the PSG1 (about $300).
Feeds anything, anytime, even dirty... never seen one jam or fail to close.  
Two pound bolt carrier helps that.  HK scope mount very expensive... $350.
ARMS removable mount just as good and about $150.  Both are very solid
mounts and return to 0 when removed and replaced.  The HK "system" gives
you a LOT of choices... rifle is a proverbial Barbie doll.  Just bring
LOTS of money!  Some lower priced aftermarket stuff out there. Normally comes
with heavy forearm with attachment point for bipod.  Light forearm available.
A2 model comes with standard plastic stock, A3 with retractable stock.
Retractable is also available separately.  Both stocks are way too low for
use with scope.  Also available is the standard plastic buttstock with a
cheekpiece that adjust upward for use with scope.  Excellent for about $150.
HK91 with sling, loaded 20 round magazine, bipod, adjustable buttstock,
3.5-10X50 scope, ARMS mount, ejection port buffer weighs > 15 pounds.
No picnic on a long hike, but quite controllable during rapid fire.  Much
of the weight is out front, so you need a strong left arm to keep it up.
Will penetrate 8" log cabin walls and literally shatter concrete blocks.
Probably not good for inside home defense... designed to "reach out and
touch someone... even behind a heavy barricade."  Parts are easy to find.
 
#Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?

Not as accurate as a Colt HBAR.  The AK is a crude but reliable design.
The Valmet is the best finished, highest quality version of this series.
Being a .223 version, it doesn't accept many of the surplus AK-47 parts,
so you'll be stuck with expensive factory parts.
 
#FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?

Yes, I think so... and more "ergonomic"... bolt locks back after last
shot, has thumb magazine release.  Considerably more expensive than the HK
both initially and for accessories, which are harder to find.  Surplus
parts are widely available, but there were MANY different models and not
all parts are interchangable.  Very "long" gun, but the folding stock
paratrooper model is nice.  Scope mounting is a bit awkward and not as
solid if you use the replacement bolt cover style.
 
#FN 223: 

Kind of a rare gun.  Parts will be a real problem.

#Others?

As much as I've hated them over the years, I'm getting pretty fond of the
A2 series AR-15/Sporters. Several friends have Delta HBAR's that do 1/2" 100yd
groups.  Parts and aftermarket accessories are a tiny fraction of the cost
of the HK and FN/FAL.  And they're much cheaper to shoot, even with reloading.
For the money, these guns give you the most, by far.  Personally, I like
the 16" lightweight sporter.  It's not nearly as accurate as the HBAR series
(about 1 1/2" groups), but it's short and light.  I wish they made a 16"
heavy barrel, but there are quite a few of these, some even fluted, out
on the market.

I've also admired the short version of the M1A.  Early models were called
tankers and the latest Springfield models are called bush models.  The
Garand type action is reliable, but scope mounting, while possible, is a
little accurate.  They're heavy, but not quite as much as the HK's.
They have all the advantages/disadvantages of the other .308's but they
don't have the same evil look and stigma.

Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From kksys.mn.org!hawkmoon!gray@uunet.uucp Mon Oct  5 08:07:38 1992

You might want to consider the Springfield Armoury M1A in .308.

Bill
gray@hawkmoon.mn.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------

#From paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl!keeshu@uunet.uucp Mon Oct  5 11:09:04 1992

#I am considering the purchase of a semiautomatic rifle, of the "evil" assault
#rifle variety, and would like to get some net advice on what to get.

You forgot the (tm) at the word "evil" :-)

#HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
#when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  

According to the Dutch gun magazine  "Schietsport", the HK-91 can create
problems for reloaders. The cartridges come out slightly deformed, with
black streaks on them due to the extraction mechanism.

Other than that they liked the gun very much and said it was good value
for money and very accurate.

* Kees Huyser   	(System Adminstrator and resident Macintosh Guru )  *
* internet: keeshu@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl		 AppleLink: HOL0397 *
* The National Institute for Nuclear Physics and High-Energy Physics, CSG/K *
* P.O.Box 4395,  1009 AJ Amsterdam,  The Netherlands,    phone:+31205922132 *

---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From lut.fi!Panu.Kolju@uunet.uucp Mon Oct  5 14:58:14 1992
Subject: Valmet/Sako

Terve Markus!

I saw Your story in rec.guns and thought to say something about Valmet/Sako
assault rifles...
I used to have model M74 7,62x39 with 30 pc magazine when I was in army.
I liked the gun. for 150 m shooting it was pretty accurate. To 300 m I didn't
do that much results since my gun's barrel was damaged by corrosion in the end
of barrel (the last person who had it didn't keep that much care of it I
think...).
Sako factory has also made some of these models. Here we call the basic model
RK-62, according to first "real Finnish" assault rifle model that was made in
1962 (some experimental stuff before that too). AK's first model was made in
1944 if my memory serves me right.
Lock mechanism is close to AK-47 but better quality like the hole gun itself.
Sights are also better, since they have night position as well(Tritium
sights). Rear "plate box" (sorry, I don't recall the English name for it...)
can be replased with one that can hold scope. 
Calibers are also for .223 and some others as well.
Different kind of models are also available, like with wooden stock or tube
stock or plastic stock or with stock that turns to guns side(tube, and AK-
like).
Bull-bub(sorry for spelling) model and some special( Like sniper) models are
also made.
AK-47 has more loose "space with tolerances" than Valmet has, so AK works
little bit better with durt in it.
In USA sellers sell these different models with ad 
"Rolls Royce of Galasnikovs". 

There are also semi-automatic model for hunting too. Here it's called "Petra".
Its action is almost the same as with assaut rifle and AK-47. In Finland here
are also some modified versons available. Also with different calibers,
expoted also to US, like some semi-automatic assaul rifles too (at least before
that ban you have there with assault rifles).

The cleaning stuffs can be stored to tube, if that model has one.

There are stories of new model for Finnish army but so far nothing too sure to
tell here.

...That was a very quick story in penut shell...

Ask if you like to know some details I'll try to tell if I can.

With Greetings Panu Kolju
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
 
Whatever you buy, you might want to do it soon: Prices will probably
rise as the presidential election approaches....
 
#HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
#when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  
 
I think so: A friend owns one, and he isn't too meticulous about cleaning.
He's never had any problems.
                                                      Frank Crary
                                                      CU Boulder
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From eos.ncsu.edu!edhresko@uunet.uucp Tue Oct  6 10:20:23 1992

|>(++) Accuracy. The purpose of the rifle is plinking at targets, and learning
|>to shoot at 100-300 meter distances.  I would like to get accuracy that is
|>close to that of a rotating bolt rifle.
	Here, the AR-15/Colt Sporter is probably your best bet.  It has a 
wonderful sight system which is the best of all the standard non-optical sights.
|>(++) Reliability.  I would like the rifle to feed even under adverse
|>circumstances.
	Either an HK or an AK action will be the best.  I lean toward HK.

|>(+) Scope mount is a must.
	The Colt has the most common mount.  You can get an HK mount for around
$150 from A.R.M.S, and it is a quick detatch with return to zero mount.

|>
|>(+) An exchangeable folding stock would be nice to have.
	Don't know what you mean by "exchangeable", but if you mean the ablity
to go from a fixed stock to a colapsing stock, the HK system is the best.

|>(+) I would like to have a light trigger for target shooting.  The rifle
|>should therefore have a decent trigger pull, or it should be possible to
|>install a new trigger group. 
	The AK trigger is by far the best, smoothest, and most consistend, hands
down!  The AR-15/CS is probably the most customizeable.

|>() Budget ~$1200, for new or almost new rifle.
	All except Steyr Aug, SIG, etc can be got for this if patience is used
in finding the deal.
	
|>HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
|>when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  
	Absolutely unfounded.  In my experience, it is the most reliable.

|>Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?
	My M76 shoots all in the black rapid fire at 100 yards.  What more can
you want?


|>FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?
	I think less( at least mine is) and it MUCH less reliable.

|>FN 223: 
Neat gun...but I have never shot one.  Note the number of countries that
have adopted it...few!
|>Others?
	GALIL!

Eric

Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)

#HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
#when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  

I found the HK-91 to be *very* muzzle heavy and hard to shoot
offhand for any length of time. It also munges (and tosses a long way)
brass if you handload.

#Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?

Reputedly the most accurate and well made of the AK clones.
AKs are not as a class noted for accuracy.

#FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?

Known as the FN/FAL. A domestic clone is the SAR series from 
Springfield Armory. These are a lot less expensive than
original Belgian FALs. SAR 48 (original FAL furniture -- buttstock,
flash suppressor, pistol grip) usually go for between $900 to $1200.
The FAL has an interesting adjustable gas system to allow for a
wide variety of ammunition. The FAL is well balanced. It also
has magazine feedlips milled into the receiver. Belgian FALs
generally go for $1600 - $1700. Two types of scope mounts of
which I'm aware: a dust cover replacement with built in Weaver
style mount and an assembly which slides over the upper receiver and
tightens to the bottom of the upper receiver via hex screws (this may 
well mar the finish). Oh, the Belgian FALs come in two major
variations, your basic full stocked rifle and a folding stocked
paratrooper model. The paratrooper has some changes to the design
of the action to account for the lack of a buttstock recoil spring/
buffer asembly. The SARs come in two major variations, the full
rifle and the "bush model" which has a shorter (18"?) barrel.

If you want an FAL and can find an SAR-48, I'd go for that as
it is substantially less expensive than the Belgian FAL and
I have yet to hear anything bad about them. My understanding is that
the SAR is/was basically a Brazilian FAL imported by Springfield Armory,
assembled here with a new receiver by Springfield. Brazil makes FALs
under license from FN. The SAR is a metric FAL as I understand it.

#FN 223: 

Known as the FN/FNC. These come in two different configurations.
One version has a folding metal tubular buttstock. The other has
essentially the same buttstock as an FAL. Some FAL accessories
(such as the bayonet) fit the FNC. The FNC is pretty heavy for
a .223 at ~9 lbs., but balances quite nicely and seems a lot more
compact than the FAL. The FNC comes with a 30 round steel magazine,
but by design takes M16/AR15 magazines, so magazines are not
a problem. The scope mounting system is known as the STANAG mount
and will run about $150 when you can find it. I have yet to determine
if a weaver style base can be attached to it. The STANAG is meant
to mount the Henscholt 4x scope. Beware, the Henscholt scope costs
more than the rifle at ~$1,500. The FNC generally runs between
$825 and $950 dependent on condition & accessories.

The FNC seems to be quite well made. The FNC is assembled on an
all but fully automated assembly line & the finished product
reflects that to some degree (some spot welding, etc.). If you
need disassembly instructions, I can provide you with some.

The FNC is all steel rather than aluminum in construction.
I have yet to ascertain *why* the FNC is as heavy as the
FAL. The design of the gas system more closely resembles
that of the AK-47 than the FAL, incidently. The FNC is
a relatively modern design which first went production
in 1980 and a big part of the theory behind it was to 
facilitate rapid (low cost) manufacture.

The FNC seems to be underpriced in todays market when you can find
them. They were going for $900 - $1,000 when they were imported
last five or six years ago. I don't think all that many were imported.
In the long run, they will probably prove to be quite rare. Of course,
this has some bad implications for spare parts (although the
design doesn't seem particularly prone to breakage).

#Others?

Sure, the HK-93 .223 which is also heavy for a .223.

The AR-180 which is a .223 (the magazines are different from anything
else & somewhat uncommon nowdays). One of my friends experience with
this rifle was less than ideal.

The Springfield Armory M1A which is a semi-auto .308 clone of the 
US military M-14.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
 
#Whatever you buy, you might want to do it soon: Prices will probably
#rise as the presidential election approaches....
 
My belief also. I went to the last (September 26-27) OGCA show & there
seemed to be a real shortage of SARs (the only one I saw was a
factory cut-away SAR-48) and FNCs (saw *one* all day). Plenty of Belgian
FALs for >$1600. Also, plenty of AKs with original stocks/pistol grip or 
folding stocks for ~$500. Also, lots of AR15 clones from "PWA". Never
heard of these before, but the price was right ($419 for a new heavy
barrel with Weaver scope mount on top the carrying handle). Anyone
know anything about these?
 
##HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
##when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  
#
#I think so: A friend owns one, and he isn't too meticulous about cleaning.
#He's never had any problems.
 
Ditto. I used to own one and don't remember and problems with this.  Keep in
mind that the chamber is fluted as part of the design & this also allows a
tolerance for grunge as I understand it. The HK-91 does have dirty action
(witness the powder residue on the cases after firing).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe)

It is very common in the Norwegian army do do the following during
exercises:
Soldier crawls in the mud with his H&K G3 rifle. It gets VERY muddy.
The gun is then "cleaned" with a waterhose and immediately taken to the 
range and fired. I'd like very much to this beeing done to a M16. HAH!!!!
 
Steffen Baeroe
steffen@stud.cs.uit.no
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From mathcs.emory.edu!gary%ke4zv.UUCP@uunet.uucp Wed Oct  7 21:07:33 1992

#HK-91 308:

This is probably the most reliable battle rifle on the market. It's not
an assualt rifle, too big and with too powerful a cartridge, but it's
the *best* at what it does. From a rack of rifles, it's the one I would
choose if my life were on the line. Drag it through the mud behind the
jeep for a few days and it still works.

#Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?

It's not a target rifle. It is *the* assualt rifle however. It's rugged
and reliable. The most widely used assualt cartridge and action in the
world.

#FN 308: Is it as accurate as the HK-91?

It's a toss up. The trigger's better, but the barrels aren't as good.
It's not quite as reliable, but probably good enough. How the two feel
in your hands is probably more important since both are excellent.
Again, this is a battle rifle, not an assualt rifle.

#FN 223: 

Same comments as above except this is an assualt chambering. I'd also note 
that the H&K 93 is a match for this rifle.

#Others?

Well naturally you can't ignore the AR15 or the M1A in your search of
assualt and battle rifles. The black .22 has a great following, and
the old Garand design is still a winner. I don't much like "assualt"
rifles and prefer battle rifles, with the H&K 91 getting my nod, but
none of them are likely to let you down. The SKS and Ruger Mini-14
should round out the list. The SKS is a clunker, but it's cheap. The
Ruger is a handy little thing, but not terribly accurate.

As our esteemed moderator says, "Buy them all." :-)

Gary
---------------------------------------------------------------------
#From pacdata!jimh@UCSD.EDU Thu Oct  8 18:17:30 1992

I almost bought one about 3 years ago, a combination of getting laid off and
the damn state passing stupid assault rifle laws stopped me.  Anyway, I was
down to either the HK-91 or the Galil.  There were 2 things that really
impressed me about the Galil.  First, it's from Israel.  These guys have
millions of neighbors who hate their guts, when they design something then
politics is a distant second to practicality.  Second, they built a bottle
opener into the bipod.  Seems that they lost the majority of their magazines
due to soldiers opening bottles with them, hence the bottle opener built
into the rifle.  Not that I'd ever need a bottle opener on my rifle, but
when they are that practical you've just got to admire them.

BTW, I ended up with a Ruger Mini 30.  Love the rifle, just wish it was in
the 7.62 x 51 Nato caliber.

jim

---------------------------------------------------------------------
FFrom hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com!bartb@uunet.uucp Fri Oct  9 08:38:10 1992

Your requirements are somewhat opposing.  There is no way you can get a
semiautomatic rifle to shoot as accurately as a bolt action rifle.  You
can get close, but only when carfully prepared handloads with quality
components are made using the best tools and processes.

A light trigger pull is not suitable for a semiauto.  You should have
about a 3 - 4 pound trigger to be safe.

But if you insist on using a semiauto, a custom built M1A in 7.62mm NATO
will be about as good as you can get.  A scope can be mounted easily but
a good scope that will withstand the heavy recoil won't be inexpensive.

You're probably looking at about $2000 for everything.  

Contact Scott Medesha of Medesha Firearms in Scottsdale, AZ, and ask him
what you should get.  He may suggest something else, but he is a great
riflesmith (much better than a gunsmith) and won't lead you astray.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: @fuug.fi:maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
 
bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
 
# #Valmet: Finnish AK-47.  Is that an accurate gun?
# 
# Reputedly the most accurate and well made of the AK clones.
# AKs are not as a class noted for accuracy.
 
I shot the Valmet in the Finnish army. I didn't particularly like it,
even though it should be reliable - small thrash constantly entered the
gun through the slide rack slot in the receiver and it still functioned
(with practice rounds anyway).
 
The biggest problem with reliability are the magazines, which are often
old and in bad shape, prone to misfeed especially when full.
 
The stock is horrible. Might be cheap to manufacture and utilitarian,
but ergonomically horrible. I must use glasses and had the rear sight
knock my glasses several times when making fast shots.
 
And the receiver cover mounted rear sight (I wonder why the russian
model has it further up front...) is a real pain. You must re-sight the
gun after each cleaning (by comparison, my AR-15 had the sights just
fine when it arrived from the factory, and I still haven't had to touch
them) and after each shock or knock the gun gets. And adjusting
elevation is very imprecise - loosen the screw, knock the sight
slightly, hope for the best.
 
Some guns are match-grade, or something like that, but ordinary soldiers
like me weren't let near those things. They might be good.
 
There's a new model coming, with several new features (ambidex
safety/cocking lever, new sights etc.) It might be a good weapon, but
depression and all, I have no idea when mass production might start.

maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters

---------------------------------------------------------------------