From: jasonp@tiger1.prime.com (Jason Pascucci)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alt.magick support group
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:45:54 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep29.112637.13343@ncsu.edu>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
> I understand some of the suspicion and annoyance with support groups.  However,
> I've personally benifitted from a 12-step program as have several fine people 
> I know.  It helps, in my experience, just to know that other people have some
> similar experiences.  And the 12-step programs seek to overcome dependence on
> externals and to help each person establish a sense of personal responsibility
> (also in my experience... groups vary widely).  

Curious commentary: The 12-step program seeks to.... (Not, I note,
the person seeks to...) 

And Overcome dependence on externals? But... a 12-step program is 
an external, which people depend on to help them out of their problems.
And they do seem to depend on it...I have seen people going to
similar programs long after it is clear (both to outsiders,
and to themselves) to see the program isn't helping. These aren't
stupid people...either, they are people who believe that it is the
*program* which works, which helps them to solve their problems,
such that they cannot do it on their own. 

> I get annoyed by self-help books because I think they suggest that there are
> quick fixes.  Living and growing are a process, a lifelong one at that.  And

Against many of the kinds of things they try to 'help', there *are* quick
fixes, but people don't feel they can carry them out on their own. 
"The human mind can overcome any pain...our test is crisis, and observation." 
--Reverend Mother Gias Helen Moheim. (sp?)

> deal with my "problems" is me.  The 12-step programs don't suggest otherwise.

What they suggest is irrevelant...what they appear to be doing is 
at issue. (No...we aren't a totalitarian gov't...really...(bang). Next
candidate.....)

> I also think that every family is dysfunctional to some extent.  No parent is

This is the most insane nonsensicle sentence I've seen since the last
time I've seen it. It's not you, it's the garbage many psychoanalysts/
councilors spew, and you have picked up on. There is a new-found
obsession with dysfunctionalism in this country...with many people's
worries exagurated given that it is 'the norm'. (Oh, god...my
father was a drunk, there must be something wrong with me, I'd better
get help quick, because I can't deal with it...they all say I can't.)
It is similar to a patient reading their analyst's chart,
and finding out they are diagnosed as manic-depressive...the outcome
is obvious in many cases: going overboard in their concern, and
sometimes exhibiting worse behaviour deviations then they would
have otherwise done. 

> -- 
> Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu

I shall refrain from brandishing the flaming sword in
Peggy's general direction, and will accept for the moment
Tagi's commentary as adequate. The only thing I might
have to say is, Dear Peggy, think a little. Especially
in light of the flame wars going on about flame wars,
notations of that type are, perhaps, not useful. 
-- 
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick