From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Why do I post here?
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:27:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.160716.200@doc.bmd.trw.com> jbrown@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:
>  Jarek, are you familliar with meme theory?  A meme is a though pattern,
>that replicates itself from person to person.  It exhibits many of the
>characteristics of a living being.  It adapts to local conditions to
>enhance its survival traits, etc.  The usefullness of a meme to society,
>unfortunately, seems to have little correlation with it's growth.

Or if your feeling really un-PC you can call religion a contagious mental
illness :)

>    Interesting hypothesis, but without much basis in fact.

Interesting statement with nothing to back it up.

>Christainity appears, in this context to be a large parasitic meme,
>taking much but returning little.

The various "strains" of Christianity differ, some are fairly harmless,
some very destructive, and some even beneficial at times (Martin Luther
King).

>    Opinion.  And not a very valid one at that.  Many hospitals have
>    been built by Christian denominations.  Many colleges and
>    universities have been started and supported by churches.
>    Even the American Red Cross was started by a Christian woman.
>
>    Christianity has made significant contributions to health and
>    education.	There are few other philosophies/religions which
>    have done as much charity work as Christianity in an organized
>    and systemized fashion.  Individuals of certain philosophies/
>    religions may feel led to charitable work, but it is often
>    an individual decision, and not a cooperatively organized
>    effort within the political structure of the philosophy/religion,
>    indeed, if it even has a coherent political structure.

But on the other hand Christianity has also been one of the most
destructive forces in history. The 40 million or more people who will die of
AIDS might well have been saved if it weren't for religious prohibitions
against sex education and contraception/safer sex. 
Nicaraugua (sp?) recently passed a law that mandates a 3 year jail term for
homosexuals and people "advocating" homosexuality, this on the prodding
of "the church". 
And this in modern history further back, the crusades, the inquisition,
galileo, etc.

>To protect itself, the meme does
>not allow a person infected with it to use rationale on it, as this
>might cause the meme to die within that person.
>
>    Interesting.  I did not know that anything I believe prevents
>    me from thinking rationally about it.  

But can you think rationally about it? Can you consider the thought
that there might not be a god without the meme telling you the answer
in advance? Can you question the passages stating that Jesus is the son
of God with an open mind?

>    I guess this applies to
>    the non-religious meme (atheism) as well?

meme arn't necessarily bad, they are subject to natural selection, some
have there power to "infect" from fear and force, some like science continue
because they reward the "believer".

>    Or are you clear of memes?	Sort of like Scientologists are
>    (supposedly) clear of engrams?

The religious meme's are generally parasites that rule through fear and
disable there victims inorder to maintain there hold, often they are
not freely chosen, but rather chosen under duress (you will burn in
hell if you don't believe).

Choosing to believe science and logic is a freely made choice.

>The meme accomplishes
>this by providing easy answers for things that otherwise may trouble
>that person, like death, and early indoctrination and constant
>reinforcment.
>
>    This is a surprisingly easy answer for explaining the phenomenon
>    of religion.  Are you sure this isn't a part of an atheist meme?

The reward side of the reason/science meme is the ability to predict
the future, and gain some understanding. On the otherhand it makes
you aware that you are ignorant of many things.

The reward side of the religion meme is the ability to ignore your
ignorance and to be comfortable believing that you have the answers.
On the otherhand it makes it impossible for you to see the real
answers.

>Thus the curious phenomena of otherwise rational people
>"freaking out" when their faith is challenged.
>
>    Good!  Your theory clearly explains a phenomenon that affects a very
>    small minority of religious people.  I'm glad that's been cleared up.
>
>
>But the meme exacts
>a terrible toll, see the crusades, the inquisition, and much of history..
>
>    Oh, so the *memes* are responsible for the crusades, the inquisition,
>    and much of history!  That's a relief.  Many atheists prefer to
>    alledge that *Christians* were responsible.

Well it depends if you want to say a rabid bog is responsible for biting
or if the rabbies is. The meme and the christian it "infects" are not 
seperate entities since the meme is now part of the person.

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