HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:07:55 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@sandr.com (Bob Parkinson)
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

In article <FRITZZ.92Aug14173516@ko.ldgo.columbia.edu> fritzz@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (fritz zaucker) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.170111.19290@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai) writes:
>
>   A professor of mine in graduate school Dr. I.J. Won (a graduate from
>   Columbia University, do you know him Mr. Howard) invented a device
>   able to map bathymetry (ocean topology) using EM waves for the Navy.
>   Believe or not, Navy still having problem with submarine bump into
>   uncharted sea mount.
>
>Knowing the military, I wouldn't be surprised, if that's just
>classified data and civilians don't get that stuff.

When I was a Navy cryptolinguist (CTI), I was working on a special project,
and deduced some facts related to US Navy submarine movements. All
hell broke loose when I started using those facts in my analysis.
I was briefed onto some sub program, and debriefed right away, then
told not to consider those facts any further. All this when I
already had a Top Secret SCI SBI clearance.

The Navy is _really_ touchy about their submarines. They're also
really keen on knowing all they can about the competition's subs.

>Hope you didn't tell us something we are not suppossed to know.
>Fritz

Bob


-- 
[ Bob Parkinson                                 S&R Software, Incorporated ]
[ bobp@sandr.com                                              410.628.9241 ]
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: fritzz@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (fritz zaucker)
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Originator: fritzz@ko.ldgo.columbia.edu
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, Columbia University, New
	York
	<1992Aug14.150819.1737@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
	<1992Aug14.170111.19290@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:35:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.170111.19290@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai) writes:

   A professor of mine in graduate school Dr. I.J. Won (a graduate from
   Columbia University, do you know him Mr. Howard) invented a device
   able to map bathymetry (ocean topology) using EM waves for the Navy.
   Believe or not, Navy still having problem with submarine bump into
   uncharted sea mount.

Knowing the military, I wouldn't be surprised, if that's just
classified data and civilians don't get that stuff.

Hope you didn't tell us something we are not suppossed to know.

Fritz

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jcw@cs.brown.edu (Jim C. Wen)
Subject: anybody need a deckhand?
Keywords: need, a
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:13:44 GMT

I'd post this to rec.sailing if there were one, but there isn't so
I'll try this group.
 
I'm told that folks sailing across the Pacific are often looking for
deckhands to sign on as crew.  My question is, would anybody out there
know where I should look and whom I should contact?  I'm hoping to
find passage by sea to Australia, arriving no later than early
December.  
 
Many thanks,
jim

-- 

                             hmmm...where's that paddle character?
jim wen                            :
jcw@cs.brown.edu                    .
                                      o
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\__\____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Inboard VS. Outboard
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:05:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.6140060
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA


   I think Bill Walker has done an excellent job of covering the pros and
cons. I would like to make a few comments on some of his points.  I had a
24' cruiser with an outboard until 2 years ago.  I sold it and bought a 31'
cruiser with twin I/O's. I personally would go with an outboard for any
boat 24' or under and I/O up to about 30'. 

 
 
 
 
 
 
> Outboard advantages:
> 
> 
> 4) At one time, outboards were cheaper, but I'm not sure this is still the
> case.
 
> 
> Outboard disadvantages:
> 
> 1) Motors stick up behind the transom, blocking your view aft, access to
> the transom, etc.  It's tough to find room for more than the most minimal
> boarding platform.  I/Os are only a little bit better in this regard,
> though (although some of the newer ones have full-width boarding platforms
> above the stern drive, but I don't think that'd be desirable for offshore
> use).
> 
> 2) Noise.  Outboards may in many cases be quieter than I/Os, but I find the
> character of outboard noise to be extremely annoying even when it's not
> very loud.
> 
> 3) Smoke.  Even the newer outboards, with variable-ratio oil injection,
> seem to smoke pretty badly when you're in neutral.
> 
> 
> 5) Parts.  I may be mistaken, not having owned one, but I'd guess outboard
> motor parts are more expensive, because of advantage (1) above.  The basic
> rule is that if it says "boat" on it, it costs at least twice as much, and
> since outboards were designed for boats, I'd expect them to follow the
> rule.  Perhaps an outboard owner can correct me on this.
> 
> 
> 7) Fuel consumption.  Outboards typically are thirstier, though I
> understand they've improved in the last few years.
> 
> 
> I/O advantages:
> 
> 
> 1a) Many parts can be bought at your local auto parts store, provided
> they're not specific to the marine adaptation of your engine, thus avoiding
> the aforementioned "boat" surcharge.
> 
> 1b) Maintenance items are easily understood by the home mechanic, since the
> engine is basically the same as what's in your car (it may even have
> interchangable parts!).
> 
> 
> 
> 4) Fuel consumption.  I/Os tend to be more economical, even though they
> might be pushing more weight (but perhaps outboards are better when
> trolling?).
> 
> 
> I/O disadvantages:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't comment on the reliability of modern outboards (or really of modern
> I/Os, I suppose), but my father owned an outboard before he bought the boat
> I now have, and I recall we had problems with it constantly.  But that was
> 25 years ago.  The I/O has had few problems that could not be attributed to
> its advanced age.
> 
> 
> ----------
> Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
> All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
> "First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
> ----------
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod)
Subject: Re: Formula for speed ?
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 12:32:56 GMT


>So, I have been thinking of upgrading the motor to somewhere between a 50 hp
>and 70 hp (max limit for the transom).  Now I know that a 70 hp isn't going
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The horsepower rating has nothing to do with the strength of the
transom.  It is calculated using a formula based on the length
and width of the boat (in most cases).  :-)


From: jefftb@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:39:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Mercury 200 Spark Plug Fouling
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.boats

 A hotter heat range plug might last longer. But could be a probelm at high
 speed operation. Aren't these large Mercs a High performance engine with
 rather radical porting. If they are they probably don't lend themselves 
 to long term idleing. I would check with someone who knows about using a 
 hotter plug though. This worked for me long ago in my 2 stroke motorcycle days.
 Actually I had to go the other way. 

 Jeff Brown 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.154646.21575@spss.com>, bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley) writes...
>In article <18AUG199210490604@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...) writes:
> 
>         When one yacht is required to keep clear of another, the row
>         yacht shall not alter course so as tp prevent the other yacht
>         from keeping clear, or so as to obstruct her while she is
> 
>So it neither says you have to maintain speed NOR course...

Jeezus Christ how'd you do that so fast? I mean, I post the thing, go to lunch,
come back, and you've typed this in... Do you have the rule book on line or
something? Anyway, since speed is not specifically mentioned, I guess it's OK
for stbd. to slow down.


> 
>IYRU case 116 addresses your question pretty well, though the facts
>aren't exactly the same, I think they're similar enough:

I thought this was the basis of an appeal, but couldn't remember the case.
I think it may be on the David Dellenbaugh rules video. The reason I brought
this case up is because it happened at Audi solomons a couple of weeks ago.
Boats were moving very slowly, and as in your appeal, the soon to be leeward
was hollering about an overlap before he actually had one. The windward boat
had hardly any way on. After some yelling, he was able to swing his stern to
windward, and the leeward boat headed up. A sailmaker was on our boat and he
said he would be a witness for the leeward boat which I thought was being
a witness for the wrong guy. No protest ended up being filed anyway, and there
was no contact, but I thought it was really out of line and it's been bothering
me off and on ever since. 

By the way, there is a nice picture of 'Stat' on the cover of the PHRF of the
Chesapeake yearbook '92. 

Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci)
Subject: Re: protests or using the rules
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:41:54 GMT

These discussions on racing rules brings me to ask what others feel about
alternative penalties and how the rules should be used.

1. Do you like alternative penalties, i.e. 720
2. Do you feel that the primary purpose of the racing rules is to keep 
   boats from colliding or is it appropriate (moral :-) to use 
   the rules to gain a tactical advantage over others.

My own feelings are that I much prefer the 720 rule because
    1)  I race because it is fun and sitting in a protest hearing 
	late at night is not much fun.
    2)  Because the 720 penalty is not the end of the world, people
	are more likely to acknowledge mistakes and avoid protests
	all together.
    2)  When racing in close quarters knowing that if you make a mistake
	you won't be DSQed.
	a)  Corollary - There are a number of situations where the
	    right-of-way between two boats can change in a fraction
	    of a second and fouls may occur as two boats try to
	    be aggressive (I'm not recommending collisions).
	    - Examples include going for room at the mark and gaining
	      or loosing an overlap at the two boat length circle.
	      Another of my favorites is being on port, ducking a
	      a starboard tack boat who immediately tacks to cover.
	      You see this and immediately tack to starboard.
	      Since you are both tacking simultaneously rule 41.4
	      applies and the old starboard tacker must keep clear.
	      If he does a good tack he may clear you,
	      otherwise he has a serious problem.
	b) Racing in close quarters in rapidly changing situations
	   is a great way to learn the rules and interpret them quickly.

I believe that racing is a game and that the rules provide a way
of making the game fair and somewhat orderly.  As such using
the rules to gain a tactical advantage is appropriate and part of the fun. 
This includes the obvious situations such as port starboard where
your force the port tacker to duck you, but also more complicated
situations where you position yourself to gain an advantage at
a specific instance.  This may include an aggressive tacking
or jibing duel to gain an inside overlap at a mark, or
force someone to not make a mark and is forced to tack again.

The objective is not to collide, but to find ways that slow
down your opponents or cause them to sail longer distances.

My own favorite races are those that are close (but we come out ahead :-),
and one is constantly trying to outsail or outmanuever ones
competitors.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: net gathering?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:58:14 GMT

I'll be in Annapolis for the boat show - in October.  One of the boat show
days would be a nice time for a net gathering - /Stu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Subject: Re: Looking for a boat charter broker
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:08:08 GMT

In article <37862@unix.SRI.COM> maslak@unix.SRI.COM (Valerie Maslak) writes:
>
>My daughter and son-in-law are looking for a good, no, make that
>really good, charter broker for finding long-term charters in the
>Caribbean and/or Pacific. By long-term, I mean 2-4 months.
>They`re looking for boats maybe 37-47 feet. My son-in-law will have
>his bareboat captain certificate.
>
>If anyone can supply the name of a broker in these areas, please
>send me email.
>
>Valerie Maslak
>maslak@unix.sri.com

Valerie, I have found after years of chartering that the broker realy does
	not do much for you. Deal direct with chartering Co. You get 
	what you pay for. I'm sure that others will agree. Yes you can find 
	boats for less but you will get less in inventory of equip. and sails
	etc. It' WELL WORTH the small amount that you might pay for everything
	in good working order and a Co. that cares that you hav3e a good 
	experance. 

	I have used CYC, Sun Charters (very small outfit out of US VI)
	and Moorings.

paul


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Re: Flares (Was: Snowgoose)
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 07:25:51 GMT


Larry Swift writes:

> why buy the guns?  The only reason I've heard is that
> since they are legal (always?) to have aboard, they
> could be used for protection as well.

Funny you should mention this. A friend of mine relates a story
that while sailing on Lake Ontario he was buzzed by some yahoo
fishermen in a powerboat. I guess they must have been a bit
drunk and thought he sailed to close to them. He was scared they were going 
to ram him, so he pulled out his flare gun and took aim. That
chased the yahoos away quick smart !


-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory
From: fgz@ddxrus.enet.dec.com (Federico Genoese-Zerbi)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:50:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ddxrus.1992Aug13.155029
Reply-To: fgz@ddxrus.enet.dec.com (Federico Genoese-Zerbi)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


FWIW

According to some news I just read, a NOAA boat that went out
with sonar to investigate the area where the QE II was steaming
when in hit "hard water" found an uncharted shoal about 30'
deep.....

F.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Hard info on accuracy of GPS vs. LORAN (DGPS)
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:20:09 GMT

Jeremy Bloxham writes on Satellite Interferometry (DGPS) :

	For civilian users interested in static position, extremely accurate
	positions can be obtained. Centimeter accuracy is possible if you
	have a dual code-dual channel receiver, are prepared to stay in the
	same place  long enough, and  do enough data processing. GPS is used
	extensively in this fashion by earth scientists studying plate
	tectonics: velocities of a few cm/yr can be resolved.

Concidentally, Fabio Rocca of the Geophysical Institute in Milan is visiting
our Dept. right now. Fabio, amongst other accomplishments, is an expert on
Satellite Radar Imagery and Interferometry, and I'll check with him what
the possibilities are and will be for sailors. The Euro community has done 
much research in this area, and are largely disconnected from the DOD.

Francis Muir
PEEP & FELIX (aagh!)
francis@sep.stanford.edu



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...)
Subject: Re: How windy?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.145017.20963@das.harvard.edu>, bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu writes...
>What else could explain it? Perhaps windspeed instruments under read in
>heavy drizzle, but I would have thought the effect of the cups
>impacting water droplets would be negligible. Any ideas?
>Jeremy Bloxham

Well, the seas can really make it tough to steer and to feather. Also, you
would have to integrate the windspeed over the length of the mast to get an
accurate indication of the force on the sails. Sometimes wind at the masthead
is greatly reduced at the surface and sometimes not so much... I'll bet the
seas were also involved in getting you up to 9 knots.


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
From: edd@gvls2.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding - who is in charge?
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:43:29 GMT
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

In article <14097@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> jkenna@bcm.tmc.edu (Jed Kenna) writes:
>In article <1684281B4.STU@mwvm.mitre.org> STU@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>> My understanding of marine law (very limited) is that the Captain in in 
>charge of the ship at all times - the pilot is on board as an advisor.
>Good question.

>My recollection as a junior naval officer several decades ago is that a
>captain is not responsible on two occasions. One is when the stem or stern
>of the ship crosses the sill of the dry dock. The other is after 
>decommissioning. On all other occasions, 

My recolection includes the Panama Canal as one of the few times the Captin
is not responsible.

Ed Doc
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Hard info on accuracy of GPS vs. LORAN (DGPS)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:04:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug20.150411.14736
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Dept. of Earth & Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to this.

For civilian users (using the C/A code) interested in determining
kinematic position, the error is  determined largely by the extent to
which the DOD degrades the signal (selective availability), giving rms
2D errors of up to  100m. Without selective availability the error
should be around 10m, though this depends on the receiver.
Differential GPS, whereby a fixed ground station broadcasts
corrections, can largely eliminate the error due to selective
availability, again giving an error of around 10m.

For civilian users interested in static position, extremely accurate
positions can be obtained. Centimeter accuracy is possible if you
have a dual code-dual channel receiver, are prepared to stay in the
same place  long enough, and  do enough data processing. GPS is used
extensively in this fashion by earth scientists studying plate
tectonics: velocities of a few cm/yr can be resolved.

The accuracy of Loran is highly variable, but an error of 100-200m is
typical.

Jeremy Bloxham
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: snow goose
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:51:03 GMT
Organization: Invictus
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

Mike Fishman writes:

>You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
>WHAT EXACTLY WOULD YOU DO, if not fire off a flare (or two).. 

I wouldn't leave the dock without being prepared for an emergency.  You
should never run out of gas.  I'd carry at least twice the amount I plan
on using.  I'd have an alternative method of propulsion.  I'd have extra
food and water, warm waterproof clothes, life jacket, radio (and spare
antenna), flares, horn, charts and tide/current tables, fire extinguisher,
first aid kit, extra line, a knife, a tool kit, and an anchor.  Before I
left I'd get the latest weather update and tell someone my plans.

>Or, alternatively.. exactly what is the proceedure for calling for help
>(VHS or CB) when you are on the bay, w/o Loran, and out of gas. I could 
>believe that a mayday is a little extreme, but I don't know any alternative.

You're right, a MAYDAY is not to be used except in the case where there is
an imminent threat to life.  In a case where help is needed, but there is no
threat to life, you should make a PAN call.

>PS, i am routinely on the bays in Liong Island, without a chart or loran, 
>only 6gal of fuel and NO RADIO.. 

How can you go out so unprepared?  No chart?  Do you even have a spare paddle?

>If I run out of gas, and no boats are within sight, I figure I have few if any
>choices:
>
>1: Anchor the boat and start swimming

NO, always stay with the boat.  It is much easier to spot than a person swimming
in the water.

>2: Hope some helpful soul flots by before i dehydrate or starve

Don't you even take extra food and water?

>3: Fire off my flares, handhelds, parashoots (sp) and anything else that will
>smoke, burn or make noise....

A real long shot.  It isn't easy to spot a flare unless you're looking for it.
A flare is best used as a locator device for someone nearby with whom you've
already made radio contact.  I was once in a position where I had radio contact
with a nearby Coast Guard boat which was looking for me and they didn't see the
flare even though they knew when and from which direction it was being fired.

>I have a real problem hoping that I can hail someone by waving a flag
>or hollering..

The correct procedure is to wave your hands over your head.  Have you ever taken
a boating safety course?  I would strongly advise you to.

Dudley Gaman
Invictus
Pete's Harbor
Redwood City, CA
.
From: moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:19:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.moseley.52.713751556
Organization: Microbial Pathogenesis and Motorcycle Maintenance

Does the QEII have a depth sounder? This might sound like a stupid question, 
but a few weeks ago I had the opportunity to be in the wheelhouse of one of 
the Washington State Ferries (the Sealth, I think) for the entire Bremerton-
Seattle run. I didn't see a depth sounder and asked the captain about it. 
His reply was that the ferries don't have depth sounders since the captains 
were required to know the depths in the area! I can't count the number of 
times my depth sounder has kept me out of trouble.

 -Steve
__________________________________________________________________________
Steve L. Moseley                                  moseley@u.washington.edu
Microbiology SC-42                                Phone: (206) 543-2820
University of Washington                          FAX:   (206) 543-8297
Seattle, WA 98195
Newsgroups: rec.boats