HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 26 Jul 92 23:39:53 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul26.200404.14441@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes:
> >> heard, a 386SX-20 w/8MB RAM runs OS/2 2.0 quite well.  If you just want
> >> the base operating system, DOS but no Windows, no extra applications that
> >> you don't need or system tools you don't understand, OS/2 2.0 would fit
> >> quite nicely on a 60MB Drive.
> >>
> >
> >OS/2 (full loaded system) and Turbo C++ 3.1 do not fit on a 60MB drive together.
> >Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
> >Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
> >Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
> >1124 Fremont Ave.
> >Los Altos, CA 94024
> >
> Just curious how much does Turbo C++ 3.1 take then?  My C++ 3.0 Professional kit
> only took up ~20 megs (Windows developer, etc...) and then OS/2 took up
> ~30 megs.
>

Turbo C++ 3.1 takes 30Megs for full blown installation.  I've seen either
Jerry Shenkhel or Dan Stephenson post that a full blown OS/2 2.0 installation
takes 40Megs - including online manual and everything.  That's 70Megs of
stuff to fit on a 60MB hard drive :)  Even at 30 Megs each, you don't have
any HD left for VM or source code or PD programs (or ...).

Frankly, my friends who have 120Meg drives on their PCs (they use DOS) say
that they need more HD space...  As well, you could use Stacker or some other
HD compression to make some room, but I neither trust these apps nor would I
want my Compiler or OS to be decompressing my commonly used files all the time -
slows everything way down :)

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Rumor IS Real!
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:21:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>What the heck IS the Ranger

He's the guy who comes by the campground and uses tired cliches like
"every litter bit counts", and "Only you can prevent forest fires".
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tony@ais.org (Tony Poole)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: UMCC
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:45:01 GMT

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:

>In <mykes.0aje@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>> Yes, it's too late..
>>Understatement.
>Well, the next possibility is already an exaggeration, but if you insist.

>"The world will end in 3 hours, 45 minutes and 27 seconds. Last orders
>please."

Ah, but maybe this isn't mucho exaggero as much as you think.

After all, are those *earth* hours, minutes, and seconds?


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
Traverse City, MI USA          tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us * tony@cherry1.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@srl02.cacs.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: PC's vs. mortals
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:32:03 GMT

root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.185406.3865@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul20.114158.20829@nic.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>>
>>[ ]
>>>
>>Who cares about games. These won't be colour systems, and anyway games will
>>move off computer platforms within 2 years. There are memory managers for
>>286's, however 600k free memory is enough for many purposes. As terminals 
>>these things will cost even less than $200 soon.

Games will move off computers within 2 years?  Are you sane?
With the success of Origin, Sierra, and Microprose (to name a few)??
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:22:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.100110.390@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>Ummm... I was wondering why people shelled out the money to buy game
>consoles instead of computers, when they could get all the advantages of
>a fully functional home computer for only a few dollars more, in the long
>run... when I saw the suggested retail price of some games...

The maintenace, original cost, etc...are all lower than on a computer. It is
not obvious to me that computers do much for most people. I'd rather see
CDTV/CD-I than the game consoles, but these are still expensive. The retail
cost of video games is very high, although the game quality is far  better
than games found on most computer platforms (exclusing the Amiga, etc../but
certainly the PC and Mac rarely have good games). Don't forget you can buy 
used video games, trade them, etc...The cost is not much higher than the
outrageous prices charhed by computer game distributors in most cases. Of
course, few people actually pay for computer games which is why they own 
computers in the first place. This will change rapidly over the next few 
years.
>
>Can you say, sticker shock?  I mean, come on... $90?

That's rare. I typically pay $60CDN ( that's $48 US or so) for a game. Some
games do cost more, but then look at the prices charged by some micro
game distributors.
>
>How is it, that high quality books, which take massive investments of
>time and energy to research, write and produce, and multi-million
>dollar movies, can all sell for $20 to $30... and companies are demanding
>unimaginable sums for their videogames?

This will change as competition heats up.
>
>It makes a console attractive.

For developers, yes which is why they are moving off the pirate ridden PC
and Amiga platforms. The basic fact is that few people pay for software.
And those that do get saddled with copy protected junk.

Philip McDunnough
nextwave!seacove!philip@epas.utoronto.ca
From: fettig@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Thomas Fettig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari/Tramiel Tech ==> VIC20, C64, 400/800, Amiga chips, Falcons
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:59:01 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


In the monthly computer-magazine (<-right word? or newspaper?) c't
they said something about 1000$ for the Falcon. But they were unable
to present a photo. so 300$ more for 'nothing yet' or 'nearly ready'
after some weeks. I have the impression they are not near release.
And if they price raises for another 300$ they don't need to release it,


	Greetings
			Thomas

ps: that must be my worst english, but its so hot here in Germany.
     time to go swimming.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:08:09 GMT

Hmm... that is not the impression I got from the MacWorld's I've been
reading... but...

Thom
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:53:41 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>   Don't be so cynical.  I know about the differences between nitric oxide and
>nitrous oxide.  What I meant was that I am pretty sure that the report I 
>heard about the chemical the makes males horney mentioned it as nitric oxide,
>and not nitrous oxide.  I thought that was odd, too, but the announcer was
>careful in mentioning it as nitric oxide, and not the 'laughing gas' 
>anesthetic nitrous oxide.  I may be wrong about what exactly this chemical is,
>but I was not confused about which one (nitrix|nitrous oxide) is "laughing
>gas".

  Actually, it's the liquid Amyl Nitrate that you're thinking of...

  -jack-
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:53:46 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>Fifth:  The 040 card.  Most people believe that 040 cards have been
>well taken care of by third party, and that C= should work on the
>thing that only C= can do:  Produce new Amiga SYSTEMS.  And since ONLY
>C= can put out an 040 Amiga, but anyone can make an 040 card, it's
>better that they do the thing that they have the most reason to, isn't it?
>

     Personally, I'd _like_ to thinlk that the reason '040 cards have been
delayed is that CBM plans on putting the AA chipset onto their '040 card
for us 3000 owners :-).



-- 
Don Lloyd                / "...my brain IBM; so if you see me acting strangely,\
don@chopin.udel.edu      \ don't be surprised." - Styx, 'Mr. Roboto'           /
Gibberish is Spoken Here.          Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork 
      MicroSoft Slogan: Resistance is Futile.  You Will Be Assimilated.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:00:30 GMT

In <1992Jul26.231311.10696@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>The problem is not the lack of HD controllers on the motherboard, it is
>the lack of Amigas with hard drives.  Hard drives have become much cheaper
>(I recently paid less for a 200M 15ms drive than I did for a 33M 65ms drive
>in 1987), but there are still an awful lot of Amigas with no hard drives.

This might be a problem. However, Marc didn't complain about the
number of Amigas without harddrives but asked wether it is better to
have a slow non-DMA SCSI harddrive on the Mac or no harddrive on
the Amiga. As if the fact that most Amigas have no controller
on the motherboard would make it impossible to have a harddisk
at all.

>Some people seem to think that it is wonderful that AmigaDOS is usable on a
>floppy only system.  This is obvious or else we'd be able to install games
>on a hard disk like PC and Mac owners instead of doing the floppy disk
>shuffle.  Oh well, I guess I shouldn't complain, most of the shit code
>written by the little boy hackers doesn't work on an A3000 anyway.  The
>game console with floppy and keyboard mentality is doing nothing but
>hurting the Amiga and it is a damn shame.  What does Commodore do about it?
>They introduce a dinky little machine with a cartridge port!  What's next?

Please state _everything_ and don't be ignorant about facts. You can't
complain about floppy-only Amigas, saying that C= does nothing against
it, and withholding the information that exactly the new Amiga model
_has_ a harddisk, can you ? I guess YOU can do that and even believe it
yourself.

>One advantage that these machines have is that they are not locked into
>ancient technology like the Amiga.  I'd love to be able to throw out an
>old ECS Zorro II board and replace it with a new super whoop-ass 32 bit
>AA, AAA, or AAAA Zorro III board.  

Again the same ignorance. PCs _are_ locked into _ancient technology_
(I also mentioned PCs.. you see ?). You can't simply throw out an
old ISA board and replace it with a new EISA or Microchannel board.

And no, there are more things than video cards to plug into an expansion
bus. And no, I wasn't talking about busses, or video cards but the
fact that the computers I mentioned don't have a harddisk controller
_on the motherboard_ which seems to be an essential feature of a computer
for Marc.

>He should get a PC and then he can pay for what he wants.  The Amiga looks
>like a great value until you realize how expensive it is to expand the now
>pitiful video and audio capabilities.

Maybe he doesn't want to be limited by a PC ?

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:44:47 GMT

torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
:   If you mean preliminary in the sense that the IEEE committee hasn't
: signed off on the standard (they may have by now, I don't know), then
: you're correct.  
:   However, since it's Apple who essentially defines the PC Nubus
: market, I don't see why this matters at all.  Ths NuBus 90 is in 
: the Quadras, it's available, and it doubles the speed of the
: existing NuBus implementations.

The flaws in nubus, however, including the speed at which arbitration
takes place, has not been improved.  It's nothing but a fast nubus,
unfortunately, and that isn't one of the best buses.  Not one of the
worst, but definitely not one of the best.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:16:09 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>BTW, many people keep telling those of us who don't worship the Amiga      
>like a deity to "just leave and get a PC or Mac!"  Don't worry, I'd        
>bet that you will get your wish in the near future if Commodore continues  
>to sit on their ass.  If and when the exodus starts, believe me when I     
>say that I'll be there to remind you should you decide to join in.  :-)    
                                                                            
Go for it now, Skip. If the Amiga doesn't fit your needs then buy a computer
that does. No one's stopping you.                                           

UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC World's John C. Dvorak Speaks Out...
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:29:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul23.232911.29897
Organization: Middle Ages House of Gruel

In article <23JUL199217572124@zeus.tamu.edu> cpw8034@zeus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
>Here's an excerpt from John Dvorak about AmigaDOS in the August issue of PC 
>World...
>
>"My earlier reluctance stemmed from my observation that the OS/2 promoters 
>acted like the crackpot Amiga users who think that all mankind is crazy
>because the whole world doesn't use the Amiga.  This is a different crowd
>from the Mac fanatics, who are just plain arrogant.  But at least the Mac
>fanatics don't whine so damn much, as the Amiga (and OS/2) users do.  It's
>not particularly fun to tell these guys that they were right.  They stil
>whine at you:  'Why don't other columnists say so, too?'"
>
>Just a rather amusing article in a non Amiga magazine...   :)

Although it is from a wanna-be visionary whose delusions of having his thumb
on the pulse of the computer industry have been deviating farther from reality
with each year that has passed since about 1983.

Keep in mind that John Dvorak recently wrote a fairly moronic article on how
he believed that Bill Gates's money was uncomfortable in somehow, that Microsoft
should gobble up all of the distribution of its software by opening a chain 
of retail stores, and that Microsoft would love it if the Federal Government
somehow found a way to carve them up into multiple companies.

The March 1984 (or thereabouts) issue of Creative Computing did a great take-off
on Dvorak's old Inside Track column from Info World.  See if you can find it...
you should get a kick out of reading "The Inside Dreck by John QWERTY."
>
>Alan


-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:47:17 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul22.134202.4219@cs.olemiss.edu> skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
> In article <torrie.711786326@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
> >gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
> >
> >>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> >>: Would anyone else out there in AmigaLand like an Amiga laptop?  How about 2
> >
> >>Yes.  I'd like a 68000-based laptop, if I could.
> >
> >  Maybe you should just buy a Powerbook 100 Greg :-)
> >
> >  $899 for a 4/40 version at Price Club.
>
> Now why would he want one of those when he could get an A600 with one
> of those awesome 1084 COLOR monitors for about the same price?  Apple
> better watch out when Commodore brings these babies to the US!  :-)
>

Boy, it sure would be nice to be able to bring the Amiga to people instead
of not being able to bring them to the Amiga for a change :)  Consider how
nice it would be to be able to make your raytraced images, eurodemos, and
other of your creations portable.

> >Evan (who loves his PB100, even though nobody else does).
>
> Maybe ReadySoft will come out with a kit for the A600 that includes the
> AMax emulator, LCD screen, trackball, and battery pack.  They could call
> it the PBMax just like the candy bar.  :-)

I hear at least 3 Laptop prototypes have been shown to CBM.  Those who
show the prototypes to CBM are shown the door.

>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu
> >Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
>
> Skip Sauls
> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:22:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>
>A 386SX isn't much faster as a 286 at the same clockspeed.
>

In fact, I read that a 386SX is slightly *slower* than a 286 when running
16-bit protected-mode software (like Windows and OS/2 1.x).  However, a 386SX
running 32-bit software is quite a bit faster and a heck of a lot more
capable.

>
>A 68030-16 would match the speed of a 386DX at 20MHz.
>

I'd like to see proof of this.

>
>Michael van Elst
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:53:16 GMT

jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
:  I'm not a supporter of Cuomo the Politician, but as a Supreme Court Justice,
: he would definately provide some moderate to liberal balance for a bench that
: is much too conservative to be comfortable with.  

In the immortal words of Jesse Jackson:

"Right on, Brother."  ;)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: dridi@choco.UUCP (Gilles Dridi ERF004)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amigas are cool
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:20:37 GMT
Organization: None

In article <1992Jul26.212452.6821@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>   Too many people regard memory protection as being only useful to the
>programmer.  This is not true.  I regard memory protection as being analogous
>to circuit breakers in a house.  You could say that if appliance manufacturers
>made their products better then cicuit breakers would not be needed, but this
>completely misses the point.  Memory protection is for the USER, to protect
>him or her from only one badly written program crashing everything.  I agree
>that programmers should continue to strive for bug-free software, but to say
>memory protection is not necessary because programmers should write 100%
>bug-free code is unrealistic, because software will never be 100% bug free.

    I'm totaly agree with Marc here, although there're always people who are
    thinking that memory protection is unnecessary when programs are
    "out house address" bugs free.

    It's an utopia to think all programs are safe. Since the beginning
    until NOW this has never been the case.


>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------

--
Gilles Dridi
{cbmvax!cbmehq}!cbmfra!choco!dridi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC World's John C. Dvorak Speaks Out...
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:47:46 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <23JUL199217572124@zeus.tamu.edu>, cpw8034@zeus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
> Here's an excerpt from John Dvorak about AmigaDOS in the August issue of PC 
> World...
[excerpt deleted]

In Jerry Pournelle's column in the August issue of Byte, he mentions that his
next column will discuss the Amiga.  Any guesses on what he'll say?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------