HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:45:30 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Aug26.171049.5346@jpradley.jpr.com> grumpy@jpradley.UUCP (Jeff Markel) writes:
}In article <1992Aug17.090943.9067@lloyd.Camex.COM> chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
}>In article <1992Aug15.173924.19765@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ac220@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rich Szabo) writes:
}>>
}>>Anyone have some suggestions for good wedding ceremony music?
}>>I would like to solicit your ideas.  
}>
}>I've always been very fond of the second movement of Bach's double violin
}>concerto.  There's something about the intertwining of the two voices that
}>seems ultimately suited to weddings.  You wouldn't want to play the whole
}>movement unless it's a loooong walk up the aisle, but it's easy to find a
}>good chunk to excerpt.
}>
}>Chris Ischay
}>chrisi@camex.com
}>(note: my address has changed)
}
}For wedding music I've always been partial (used it in my own wedding) to
}Mozart's duet for Papageno and Pamina near the end of the 1st act of 
}The Magic Flute (sorry, the text escapes me).

I attended a wedding a week ago in which the bride sang "All I ask of
you (is to love me)", from Webber's Phantom.  It was quite effective.
It would have been even more effective if the groom was a singer as
well.  

-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Korngold
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:20:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.155335.16991@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>I have heard that Korngold was a child prodigy acclaimed by Strauss, Mahler
>and Schoenberg. I know he worked for Hollywood after being forced to flee
>from the Nazis, but did he ever realize his potential with 'serious' music.
>I have heard his violin concerto but nothing else. There are some recordings
>of orchestral music out there (eg. symphony, sinfonietta) and also some
>chamber works and operas (Die Tote Stadt). Are any of these of interest
>or are they second rate works?

They are certainly worth hearing, and are at the very least utterly
skilled and tasteful.  The Op. 1 trio, written when Korngold was 12
or so, is astonishing.  Violanta is beautiful if you like the late-
Romantic idiom; Tote Stadt is far better, and very sensitively characterized.
Korngold was very conservative in his style and barely showed awareness
of Debussy.  But he certainly had no flies on him.  Violanta and Tote
Stadt were very popular in the German-speaking world for a long time;
only 1933/38 shut them down.

To answer your question, no, he never came close to realizing his potential.
But then, few composers have actually done so.  Try Tote Stadt.  If you
like a story like that (man finds himself via trip to dream-world of
the past), this is a good opera, period.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: seth riggs -- opinions sought
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:44:47 GMT

i'd like to hear comments on seth riggs as a voice teacher, his method &
results, his book and any other relevant question.

thanks
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Lawrence Welk is dead
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:45:28 GMT


Oh, is this the endless contumely over John Cage? So sorry. Carry on!

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist))
Subject: Aspen Music Festival report
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:30:07 GMT

I just returned from the 1992 season of Aspen Music School in Aspen, Colorado.
It was an enlightening experience from which I was able to get much
inspiration in music.

I would like to spend several KBs in the next several days to write about my
experience while in Aspen.  If you have some specific questions, please feel
free to contact me.

Topics I will cover are...

1. Why I went to Aspen
2. Aspen Music School environment
3. Orchestras
4. Edith Oppens
5. Mrs. Park
6. Dorothy DeLay
7. "Musical Pornography"
8. Aspen environment


-- 
Ken Iisaka  kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca : Just got back from Aspen, Colorado.
Artificial Intelligence Laboratory : Please be gentle.  I have to get 
University of Ottawa, Ont., Canada : acclimatised to the low altitude here.
H: +1 613 237 6642     W: 564 8155 : I was a mountain goat there...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:52:14 GMT
Organization: Digital Systems Co., Atlanta GA

In <1992Aug26.135214.16150@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
}And point me in the direction of writings which contradict my claim that
}Ives, Barber, Sessions and Copland were American republicrats, and hence
}advocates of the invasion of the Philippines, the bombing of Hiroshima, the
}My Lai massacre, the CIA's overthrow of Arbenz and Allende, and the
}invasions of Lebanon, Santo Domingo and Grenada... in fact I have no reason
}to believe any of them carry any personal responsibility for any of the
}revolting barbarities carried out by the people they unthinkingly
}supported.  It might have been preferable if some of them had thought a
}little harder about what they were voting for but the sort of hysteria
}Steve is pushing is hardly called for.

Furthermore, Copland was one of those persons brought before the
infamous "Un-American Activities" hearings.  As late as 1977,
there were letters to orchestras protesting the performance of his
music on the accusation that he had Communist leanings at one
time.  (See the second book of Copland's biography.)


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: bel@ssc.wa.com (Belinda Frazier)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Music in "I've heard the mermaids singing"
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:07:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA



I've been wondering about the composer and the name of the piece
played throughout the film "I've heard the Mermaids Singing"

When the main character is imagining various things, there is a chorus
playing several times during the film.  The piece is not listed in the credits. 

Sorry I can't be more descriptive about the music,
but perhaps someone who has seen the film can enlighten me, or point
me to the right source to find the name.

Thanks. 
Belinda
-- 

bel@ssc.wa.com   or   uunet!nwnexus!ssc!bel 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:39:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.074603.7557@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve
Apter) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.013839.21419@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
>dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug24.153614.4915@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve
>>Apter) writes:
>>[...]
>>>If you're looking for a "composer" who deserves your invective,
>>>might I suggest Cornelius Cardew.  Now *there's* a dangerous clown.
>>>Those who doubt, please see his chapter on musical notation in the
>>>anthology _Breaking the Sound Barrier_, ed. Babcock (citation from
>>>memory), in which he castigates Cage and others as tools of the
>>>bourgeoisie.  Presumably, he belives they should be executed, or
>>>subjected to thought-reform.
>>>
>>>A foul and ugly human being.
>>
>>How dare you! Did you ever meet him? I knew Cornelius quite well
>>during the early 70s, and a more kind and generous man you could not
>>hope to meet. His Maoist politics may have led him to a certain amount
>>of loopy statements, but I'm sure he didn't believe anybody should be
>>executed or subject to thought-reform. Many of the members of his
>>Scratch Orchestra (myself among them) disagreed profoundly with his
>>politics. He never once even attempted to persuade me with argument
>>to his point of view. You are way out of line on this one, my friend.
>>
>
>Tell me what you think of Paul de Mann, by all accounts a warm and
>charming human being.  Never mind the anti-Judaic trash he penned
>for the Nazis.
>
Paul de Man (note the correct spelling) was also a man from whom you could
learn a thing or two about literature.  Check out the Minnesota collection
of essays he wrote between 1953 and 1978 (unless you have decided to condemn
it to the same ash heap as his Nazi propaganda).  (You can also learn a bit
about Heidegger;  but since Heidegger ALSO had Nazi connections, I guess you
would deem such education either detrimental or worthless.)
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Prokofiev cello concertino
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:46:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug31.193604.21160@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes...

>I believe the sinf-conc mentioned above (op 125) is a reworking of an
>earlier cello concerto. How similar were the two pieces? Are they 
>effectively the same?

They are very similar.  I think the concerto is overall more succesful
and has a pretty wild cadenza!  I have the Walevska recording on 
PHILIPS - great!

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Cage's Bunnies (was Re: Manners, children please...)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:50:46 GMT

thanks to both Mark Gresham and James Langdell for:
: : "Three Dances for Two Prepared Pianos". 
: :  ballet "The Seasons" 
: : very early (1930's ?) unaccompanied clarinet sonat
: : "The Perilous Night" for prepared piano

if we can get 5, we'll set it put in the FAQ, and refuse to talk to
Yoders all over the world until they've heard them...
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana
Date: 25 Aug 1992 21:33:31 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


This topic has made me think of a naive question.  If there are B-flat and
A clarinets, I assume this means the lowest note the A clarinet can play
is just one half-step below the lowest note of the B-flat clarinet.
Why is it worth the trouble to make separate instruments that are so
close together - or in other words couldn't an A clarinet play all the
music that is written for the B-flat clarinet?  I would think it would
only be worthwhile to make instruments that are more different, like the
E-flat above B-flat clarinet and the E-flat alto clarinet.

I remember someone once had a C saxophone, and I was told the rationale
for its existence was not the need for an instrument in between the
alto and tenor saxes, but rather than it could play parts written for
piano without transposing.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: How about some JOHN CAGE suggestions?
Date: 24 Aug 92 02:19:35 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <92236.190222RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> writes:
>Ernest Barreto asked for some Cage recommendations.  I have a couple,
>and the recs are limited to things which are available on CD.  After-
>wards, I have a few more recommendations for things which I _hope_
>will be on CD soon:
>
>Now, for pieces which I don't think are on CD -- the _Etudes Australes_
>for piano are frequently mentioned in Cage literature.  I've heard
>some live and liked them.

Book 1 is on CD: NMA 540-76, together with Carter's "Night Fantasies".
Pianist: Drury.  Now, if I only could recall what label 'NMA' is ...

A must are the four "Constructions" and "Amores" for percussion (and
prepared piano):

Second Construction (1940): "Kroumata" perc. ens., BIS 232
Third Construction (1941): "Amadinda" perc. ens., Hungaroton HCD 12991

Amores (1943): "Kroumata" perc. ens., BIS 272
Amores (1943): "Amadinda" perc. ens., Hungaroton HCD 12991

(I'm sure that the First and the Fourth "Constructions" have also been
recorded on CDs, but I don't have the reference handy.)

-Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dgolber@midnight.aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: joke
Originator: dgolber@midnight
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:24:59 GMT



Due to overwhelming request, here is the joke:



Three girls were talking about their boyfriends, all of whom played
brass instruments.

The first one said "My boyfriend plays the trumpet.  With his
lips, it's so exciting when he kisses me, I almost faint!

The second one said "My boyfriend plays the trombone.  With his
lips, when he kisses me, I see stars!"

The third one said "Well, my boyfriend plays the French horn.
It's not so much the way he kisses me ... it's the way he 
holds me!"
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: More on CAGE CAGE CAGE!
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:53:39 GMT
Distribution: rec.music.classical
Organization: The Communications Research Centre

In article <1992Aug30.012834.2631@highlite.uucp> alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell) writes:


>And I say:  Cage was not a _composer_.  A philosopher, surely,
>an aesthete, of course, a preacher, certainly.  But not a person
>who was primarily interested in "placing sounds
>
>
>We all seem to react differently to this.  Some of us say, go to
>it Cage baby.  Others of us say, charlatan, crank.  But if one
>accepts my assertion that Cage was a "composer" only in an
>extended, not-usually-accepted sense, then the argument becomes
>clearer(I really mean, murkier).
>

In one eulogy, it was said that the importance of Cage was in his
influence on others who were composers.  If that is so, then whether
one considers him a composer, or likes or dislikes his actual music
may not be of primary importance.  He would be an enormously important
person to music even if his compositions were never heard.

-- 
==========================================================================
Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Funeral music?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Distribution: rec.music.classical
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:09:38 GMT

In article <JWA.92Aug31194822@vipunen.hut.fi> jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt) writes:
>
>  I hope this doesn't sound morbid, but:
>
>  There have been many requests for wedding music. It just came to my
>  mind, that on listening to one piece of music sometimes ago, I
>  caught myself thinking: "This is music I would like them play in
>  my funeral."
>
>  Has anyone else had thoughts of same kind? Please email me your
>  favourites and I post a summary later on. I could use nearly all of
>  Bach, particularly his cantatas, works for solo string (violin, cello),
>  for organ. Some works from other composers also.
>
>  PS. The piece I was listening, if someone wants to know, was the
>      last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony.

Funny that - it's the piece I've always thought I's want at *my*
funeral. Thing is - could I expect the grieving multitude (hah!) to
sit there for 20-some minutes while it plays?

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: what about Partch?
Date: 25 Aug 1992 19:45:33 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <l9ksf0INNmsq@news.bbn.com> jdhill@BBN.COM (Jack D. Hill) writes:
>
>Does anyone know if Columbia has re-released _T_h_e_ _D_e_l_u_s_i_o_n_ _o_f_ _t_h_e_ _F_u_r_y on CD? I
>taped the LP years ago when I was a conservatory student and the tape is not
>in the best shape. Does anyone have a copy of the LP they would like to sell?

Virtually all Partch's works currently in print can be ordered through
the Just Intonation Store of the Just Intonation Network. They have a
free catalog. I don't have a copy here to see if Delusion of the Fury
is on it, but if it's indeed available, they'll have it.

	Just Intonation Network
	535 Stevenson St.
	San Francisco, CA 94103

Bill Alves
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Bottom ten operas
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 21:23:26 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

The time has come for us to get serious. What ten works should be dropped
from the canon, or at least from the standard international performing reper-
tory?

I don't know if I can list ten, but my list would include:
Andrea Chenier
La Gioconda
Adriana Lecouvreur
Faust

What else?

My basic criterion for this list is the "If you can cast them, you can do
something much better" standard -- as opposed to the "I can't sit through
one more routine performance" standard. By the latter criterion, one might
advocate dropping Carmen, Traviata, and Rigoletto. Under the former, you
would cancel Faust and perform Traviata or Rigoletto well. (If the Faust
cast were, say, Studer, Hadley, and (for Traviata) Hampson or Chernov. I'm
not certain there's a Rigoletto around these days.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eb11@quads.uchicago.edu (Ernest Barreto)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Reply-To: eb11@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:12:47 GMT

In article <BtIJC8.MDL@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:


>I very much disagree that I should not be the yardstick by which I measure
>things.  If my thoughts and values and conclusions are Not what I use, then
>what is the alternative?  Becoming someone else's robot?


We all invite you to be your own yardstick. We take offense, however,
when you try to impose your yardstick on us. All of us have said this
many times (roger, jon, etc..).


>I have defined music, I have explained why it must have a purpose,
>I have explained what that purpose is, and I have pointed out how it
>accomplishes that purpose.  I don't know what more there is to say!

I don't believe you explained why music must have a purpose. You did,
however, claim that is must have one.

Also, you never did respond to my comment on the deaf person, which
I claim renders your definition of music useless.


>Art is a means of expressing ideas (there are other means of expressing
>ideas besides art, but art certainly must do this or it has no purpose),


Just curious: what is the objective purpose of expressing ideas?


Ernie

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Manners, children please...
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:53:27 GMT

In article <17gepsINN8ch@agate.berkeley.edu> maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.044600.13544@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
[...]
>|> :  
>|> : |> : Did he ever tell people how to "evaluate" his pieces? 
>|> 
>|> Of course he did - he wrote books on the subjects! Why ask when we both know?
>
>I can't remember any comments on how to evaluate his pieces. 
>Seriously.  He mentions things like "sobering the mind and rendering
>it susceptible to divine influence", but not in the discussion of his
>own composition.  He does not say, "The measure of the success of
>_Atlas Eclipticalis_ is <bla>."  Quite sensibly, his discussion (in
>all the cases I can remember) bears on the intellectual/aesthetic
>adventure of *making* his music, not consuming it.

I realize that when distinctions are undrawn (even the distinction
between making a distinction and not making one), finding ones way
in these matters becomes treacherous, but is it not the case that
*this* distinction -- that of making and consuming music -- is
precisely the one that is under scrutiny in works such as 4'33"?

One of the things I want from a theory of music (of art in general)
is an account of how the kind of listening (experience) we're concerned
with (viz., with aesthetic_mode <= TRUE) involves a special kind of
activity.  What do *I* do when listening to 4'33" that I *don't* do
when not listening at all for four minutes, thirty-three seconds?

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: James B. Wilkinson <wilkins@cs.cofc.edu>
Subject: Oboe sizes        was           Re: clarinet arcana and transposition
X-Xxdate: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:12:36 GMT
Organization: The College of Charleston
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 00:11:29 GMT

In article <=xbn-vc.ladasky@netcom.com> John J. Ladasky II,
ladasky@netcom.com writes:
>	What about the oboe/English horn family?  Are there more than two
>sizes of these?
Oboe d'amore is pretty common.
Is there also a bass oboe that Richard Strauss used maybe?
From: johnl@yang.earlham.edu (John Fiskio-Lasseter)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: 23 Aug 92 19:15:00 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <BtCst1.B7q@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

> Are you telling me that sitting in silence for 4'33" is something other 
> than boring?  I can't imagine anything less exciting.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with unprogrammed Quaker worship.  We 
generally manage at least an hour every week :-)
-- John
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|John Howard Eli Fiskio-Lasseter  |     "Is obair-la\ to\iseachadh"   |
|Earlham College Computing Center |    ("Beginning is a day's work")  |
|e-mail: johnl@yang.earlham.edu   |                --Gaidhlig Proverb |
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