From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:06:55 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
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In article <1992Nov18.023033.3440@hspice.portal.com> George Wu, georgew@hspice.portal.com
writes:
>>>Others hate based upon skin color.  Who cares why, you're both
>>>guilty of raw bigotry.
>
>>First off, I never said that I hate Chinese-ge (people who are genetically
>>Chinese).  Second, the only thing that I've said is that I condemned Chinese-cu
>>(i.e. culturally Chinese sense) culture.
>
>     Chinese-ge/cu terminology aside (perhaps I should have been clearer,
>but you've made the distinction often enough I thought it obvious), this is
>a perfect example.  Here you explicitly condemn those raise in Chinese
>society, a group of people which numbers over a billion.
>

Using common sense, 1 billion vs. 1 is not odds I want to be up against :-)


>
>     Chinese culture is *not* defined as the behaviors you attribute to
>"Chinese-cu."  A very broad term indeed, one such definition might include
>that group of people speaking a particular language or set of languages.
>Find a single dictionary, reputable news account, or academic paper which
>states a definitive aspect of Chinese society is racism or child abuse.
>You have made this claims previously on many occaisions.
>

Just to be fair (though I am not implicitely supporting Dwight Joe's claims), you
must admit some cultures are more condusive (sp?) to certain negative actions by
its members.  For example, American culture is such that the sexually trasnmitted
disease problem is almost logical (of course, the "safe sex" drive is attempting to 
change this).  Italian culture (culture != government) almost accepts the Mafia as
a given.  

But (flip the coin), if you meet an American, he probably doesn't have a STD.  If 
you meet an Italian, he probably doesn't belong to the mob.  I think Dwight fails
to realize that point.

>
>>>     Hatred of a genetic group, a cultural group, or even a poltical group,
>>>are all the same.  You don't know every member of the group.  You don't
>>>understand each one.  You just hate them.
>
>>Let's apply Mr. Wu's reasoning to Nazism, a virulent subculture of
>>Western society, and the Khmer Rouge, a political group.
>
>>Then, Mr. Wu basically says, "Hatred of African-Americans, Nazis, or even
>>the Khmer Rouge are all the same.  You don't know every member of the group.
>>You just hate them all."
>

The Nazis were a political group, not a sub-culture.  It was an political ideology
that the German culture left itself open (and vulnerable) to during the 1930's.
Subcultures would be the differences between the Prussian Germans and the 
Austrian Germans.

>
>>Condemning a horribly misguided culture is not
>>bigotry.
>
>     Condemning a culture based upon attributes which aren't elements of
>it's composition is.  Falsely attributing crimes to an entire society
>composed of over a billion people can only be racism.

Where does the absolute moral come from for one to "judge and condemn" another
culture?  It is not evil to say "I find that culture bad and I don't want 
anything to do with it," but to say "I find that culture bad, and you should
have nothing to do with it" is definately hateful (though I wouldn't necessarily
say racist in the strict sense of the word).  Yes, I am Western in culture (American
to be exact) and I don't like some of the other cultures of the world, but I am
only my own master.  My mind is only attached to my body.  I can not make
decisions for others.  (Of course, that is on the personal level.)

Ever hear of the Prime Directive? 
:-)

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student        |
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| This country is a _democracy_.  We all must take responsibility for  | 
| our government's actions because we the people are legally the basis |
| of its existence.  This means that we all owe at least $10,000 each  |  
| on the national debt.  You can't get something for for free.         |
========================================================================
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10175 soc.culture.bangladesh:6127 soc.culture.indian:37676 soc.culture.pakistan:16953 alt.discrimination:4680