HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Collegiate Cycling and YOUR school
From: <RMR113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:21:26 EST
Organization: Penn State University

In reply to the ariticle concerning the amount of support that colligate
teams get from their schools:

Here at Penn State-Behrend we get almost no support.  I helped to form the
club just last spring semester and all we got for funds was the $75 "feeder
fund" that any new club gets when it is started.  We submitted a budget at
the end of last semester asking for Almost $700.  We were hoping to be able
to pay for the club registration with NCCA, buy one jersey fofor each club
member, race entry fees, entry fees for the rides that non-racersenter, and
for transportation to races and rides.  We were allocated only $216.  And we
can only use this money for the most innane things, like making copies,
paying for stamps, bullshit like that.

We are trying to get some money from the athletic dept.  so that we can hold
a better race than we held last year.  Money wise that is.  Because last
year we earned only $60 from our race since we paid almost $200 for
officals.  But it does not look good as far as getting any money from the
ath.  dept.

The university will let us have use of a university van, and they will pay
for gas money as long as we have receipts.  But we have to pay the university
38 cents per mile, and because of the demnd for the van it needs to be reserved
almost one month ahead of time. And the driver must be 21 years old, and hold
a current Pennsylvania driver's licsence.

So basically, if we want to do anything, we have to raise the money ourselves.

Dave Chadwick
President, Penn State-Behrend Cycling Club
From: stek@amazon.pfc.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: RE: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:29:16 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER

The upgrade policy from 3 to 2 seems a bit tough.  In New England
we have a harder time filling a 1,2 field than a 3 field.  This
will only get worse with these changes.  What is the rational?

I also have never understood the reason GC placings in a stage race
do not count.  Is this because your finish could be based on a tt placing?

Paul Stek
stek@pfc.mit.edu
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:58:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

Bruce Hildenbrand writes:

> A casual data point from someone who beats up on people for
> rounding errors.  Like anyone else on the net you are entitled to
> your opinions, most of us try to back them up with actual facts.
>
> I guess when you start digging a hole, it is best to continue till
> you get to China!

What's the actual fact in contrast to facts.  Just because I
suggested that you need less water in the winter and especially when
the temperature is below freezing, you don't need to interpret that
as never drinking water.  I drink plenty of water but not when I
don't need it.

It seems to me, however, that three riders going out on a 75 mile
ride with 5000 feet of climbing drinking less than a half bottle of
water represents valid data.  I find the comparison of this
experience with riders whose anodized rims have not failed amusing.
This is not a statistical matter such that by coincidence our bodies
did not require any water this time while on another colder day
(when water bottles freeze) we will become dehydrated.

I see these ad hominem arguments as a retort from those who feel my
comments about watering exercises in busy intersections struck too
close to home.  Those who jump up and, in so many words, say "that's
me!" and proceed to take offense, are only give credence to my
characterization.  This whole question came up because someone
wanted to let us know they were riding in cold weather by asking how
to keep a water bottle from freezing.

So remember, if you can't balance in front of cars at the traffic
light, drink water... especially before you need it, as the saying
goes.  And it doesn't matter if it's frozen because it's the gesture
that counts.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: goater@fraser.sfu.ca (Rosemary Lyn Goater)
Subject: Re: Boxing Day?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.215339.28908@nas.nasa.gov> border@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Ryan A. Border) writes:
>loucks@isrc.sandia.gov (Cliff Loucks) writes:
>
>>My bicycle racing calendar, from Famous Cycling Videos, lists
>>December 26th as "Boxing Day (except USA & CANADA)".
>>
>>I give up.  What's Boxing Day?
>
>Boxing Day, the day after Christmas... when you "box" up all your old
>stuff that you don't need anymore (now that you have all new stuff from
>Christmas) and give/donate it to someone who needs it more.  It was a 
>holiday in Canada when I was growing up there (isn't it still?).  
>
>At least this is what my Dad told me years back...
>
>Ryan.

Boxing Day is a stat holiday in Canada.  God knows what it is supposed
to be for.  Probably something we inherited from Britain.  Nobody really
knows what it's for as far as I know.  Locally here in Vancouver, though,
it's come to be the day you can get really wicked deals on audio/video
equipment.  That is if you're willing to line up the night before outside
the store. 

Bbbbrrrrrrr!



Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: hammond@grizzly.scd.ucar.edu (Steve Hammond)
Subject: stretching (was: riding and weight training)
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:35:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.003221.9941@u.washington.edu>, dmoore@stein.u.washington.edu (David Moore) writes:
> 
> I agree with Paul.  Bad advice is worse than no advice.  
> 
> Someone, for example, stressed the importance of regular stretching.  
> Given the nearly universal practice of stretching, it may seem odd 
> that not stretching can be a good thing.  Yet, many people actually
> do themselves more harm by stretching than if they simply allow
> their muscles to recuperate.  There is mounting evidence that, in fact,
> stretching provides little if any relief from soreness.  On the
> contrary, it can unduly stress your joints.  Certainly, flexibility
> is a desirable quality in an athelete, and some stretching probably
> promotes this flexibility.  However, the last thing that sore
> muscles need (if indeed it's sore muscles and not something else, 
> such as connective tissue damage) is to be stressed.
> 
> Just something to keep in mind.
> 
> David Moore
> de_moore@pnl.gov


How ironic that the first sentence in your message is how I feel
about the majorit of the article.

      Steve H.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Re: Who is Dave Harvey
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:02:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.182544.25011@julian.uwo.ca> thornto@next2god.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Mike Thornton) writes:
   Who is Dave Harvey?

Dave Harvey is a near Godlike figure in Bike-ademia. Emmanating from the
farthest reaches of the rec.bicycles net, he preaches righteous intolerance
to non-cyclists wherever and whomever they may be. 

   Is he someone I should know from racing? And is the lemond in his e-mail 
   address a reference to Greg? 

You should *definitely* know about Dave 'Hill' Harvey. Dave is an 
up-and-coming Cat III cyclist who worships Greg LeMond and does his
utmost to emulate Gregs heroic, supermacho cycling feats. The word I
hear of late, in VeloNews no less, is that Lance Armstrong and Dave
are locked in a bitter dispute over who will be The Next Greg LeMond. No 
announcement yet on whether Gregbo himself will become arbiter of this
historic confrontation.

Dave welcomes praise and supplication. Email him as:

	dharvey@lemond.harvey.com

Ignore the 'Host not found' response you may get. This just means
that Dave is out cycling and hasn't the time to personally respond
to each and every one of his ardent admirers. Rest assured, however,
that your kind words of encouragment and support will go a long way towards
making you a Real and Better Cyclist.

   It does sounds though as if he would be a good candidate for a racing team
   which one of my old teammates was thinking of starting. The team was
   going to be called 'NBNP' ...No Brains, No Pain Racing team. The idea
   was to have a team of riders who did massive training and would just
   ride at the front all out and attempt 80 km breaks continually.

Dave Harvey does *not* draft. In fact it can be emphatically stated that
Dave does *not*, himself, leave a draft behind him when he rides. It's
more of a wake, visible to the naked eye, that tends to disorient any
and all who try to latch onto it for nefarious and sub-sportsmanlike
advantage. Three riders in this year alone have perished from lack of 
oxygen whilst trying to suck Dave's wheel. Slow motion replays suggest
they realized their situation as soon as they fell into the wake, but
were powerless to detach themselves from it and helplessly rolled
along to their deaths. I can't tell you how horrible it was to see
blue-faced, wheel-sucking, cyclists keel over at the finish. Just
dreadful.

MJ


--
Michael R. Johnston, System Administrator	mjohnsto@shearson.com
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man." - G.B. Shaw
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:16:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.141023.14742@oakhill.sps.mot.com> mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun )) writes:
><K3018E9@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:
>
>>- What do you know about doping?
>>- What do the pros take?
>>- Do you take anything?
>
>>Steve.
>
>What kind of BULLSHIT is this?  This is no place for discussions on
>crap like this.
>
>(Just my $0.02 worth.)

Quite right.  Discussions on the physiology of cycling belong in
rec.bicycles.misc.

John_Ampe@att.com
From: ovr@lk-hp-3.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:13:34 GMT
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-3.hut.fi

In article <1992Dec14.151644.13814@cbnews.cb.att.com> ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
>Quite right.  Discussions on the physiology of cycling belong in
>rec.bicycles.misc.

rfd: rec.bicycles.groups?
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
From: ianbjor@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ian D. Bjorhovde)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:06:20 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <BzB3nn.20x@news.water.ca.gov> stevec@stimpy.water.ca.gov (Steve Croft) writes:
>My own personal experience is that on cold days I always seem to be going
>to the water bottle to keep my throat dry.

Dry?? :-)

Seriously, though, Steve brings up a good point:  While some people DO
sweat alot (try riding in a non-breathing windbreaker!) others do not.
Regardless of this, the air is much drier than in summer, and therefore
a lot of people will drink water because their throat/mouth is very dry.
(yes, I do know what cold weather is, I lived in Pittsburgh for 5 years)



--Ian D. Bjorhovde
  ianbjor@gas.uug.arizona.edu
  Department of Materials Science and Engineering
  The University of Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Tales of the "He-Man"
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:02:36 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   10 Dec 92 06:46:32 GMT
>FROM:   Frank Williams <frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu>
>
>Mike Johnston (mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com) plead not guilty when he wrote:
>: 
>: I'm flattered to see my name up in lights with the likes of Dave and
>: Jobst, though I would prefer that it be LeMond and Indurain.
>
>Ahaa!  Note Dave Harvey's fictious address: dharvey@lemond.harvey.com.
>Both Mike and "Dave" seek to be associated with Lemond. 
>This has been a recurrent theme in Dave Harvey posts.  Also note the
>similarity in address formats: [....]

Time for the old Spartacus gambit.

No! *I'm* Dave Harvey!

--Michael Smith
From: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:01:07 GMT
Reply-To: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Distribution: na
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Dec16.094553.18147@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>
>Qualifying Races
>	Road Races	Criteriums	   Field Size
>Men	50 mi./80 km.	20 mi./32 km./45   min. 60
>Women	40 mi./64 km.	15 mi./24 km./30   min. 20
>				      ^^
>				     [If you are wondering what these numbers
>				      are, you are not alone - Les]
>
I believe those numbers refer to time limits for criteriums that are timed.
Just a guess I could be wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time or the last.
------------
Alex Rodriguez
Columbia University
New York City
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: warsa@polaris.unm.edu (j warsa)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:32:26 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Nuevo Mexico, Alburquerque
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing

les@cs.stanford.edu, in rec.bicycles.racing, writes: 
=> Zalman Stern writes:
=>   Many (most?) apsirin tablets contain caffeine as well. What is a "limited"  
=>   substance? What is the limit for caffeine? 
=> 
=> The limit on caffeine is 12 micrograms per milliliter of urine.
=> You would have to drink an unreasonable amount of coffee to get there.
=> --
=> Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
=> Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
=> UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022

Caffeine testing data point:

Janelle Parks (some of you may remember her - I'd guess Les would) tested 
at 14.5 mcg/ml urine in 1989 during the PostGiro in Norway, an eight day 
women's stage race held in late May. She had taken two UPTime tablets 
(containing 90 mg caffeine each) and two cups of coffee prior to the stage 
at 10:00 a.m. Her urine sample was taken at about 4:30 p.m. after she won 
the last stage (6th overall). She got suspended and was removed from the 
Len Pettyjohn led Lowery's team. Since she was my girlfriend at the time, 
I know that she took it pretty hard especially since it was her living. 

This episode made me (and Janelle) look into the situation in detail. I
concluded that there seems to be something wrong with quantitative testing 
of such a readily available and commonly used substance - or any substance for
that matter, but caffeine in particular. Too many factors can affect the 
concentration of ANY substance in your urine, like body size, level of 
hydration, etc.  I would suggest an all or nothing policy; if it's on the 
"List" then you cannot have any in your system, otherwise have all you want.
We wrote a couple letters, but no one took notice.


-- 
jim warsa
albuquerque
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: jfrench@alias.com (Jonathan French)
Subject: Re: Cycling and Doping
Organization: Alias Research Inc., Toronto ON Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:44:03 GMT


Yes, before we get too politically correct about this issue, we should remember
that doping, as a phenomenon happens to occur in racing, and is just as 
newsworthy a subject as anything else. When Danny DeBie gets caught in the 
control with a condom full of someone else's urine, I don't expect VeloNews 
to deny me that information because I may get the idea to try it myself.



Jonathan French
From: frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: riding and weight training
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:12:59 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Paul M. Szymkiewicz (mrpaolo@wpi.WPI.EDU) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec11.061549.20321@news2.cis.umn.edu> frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams) writes:
: >
my post deleted...
: 
: Well, if you know that you are not an expert I would stay away from
: advices advocating Advil and such for regular training.  The results might
: be just the opposite making the no pain no gain theory look a bit weird.

I am sorry that the point of my article was apparently unclear to Paul and
to others.  Let me expand on my original response.  

The problem as presented was poor performance two days after lifting.  It 
was worse than one day after ligfting.  Delayed onset muscle soreness is
reportedly caused by inflammation.  I believe that the study showing this 
was reasonably careful and that the conclusions were supported by the data.
Based on the facts in the original post, I surmised that inflamation was
the cause of the problem.  I did not and still do not know this for sure.
How should we find out?  Speculate or test?  I may not be an expert 
weight lifter but I am supposed to be an expert biomedical researcher.

The test I proposed was simple.  Ibuprofin is a very specific anti-
inflammatory agent.  Using this drug to limit inflammation should
improve the rider's performance, if inflammation was truly his problem.
Remember, there was precedent in the literature for this.  On the other
hand, if the poor cycling performance was unrelated to exercise-induced
inflammation then the drug would have little or no effect.

What I left implicit, but should have stated, is that I do not recommend
the use of antiinflammatories as a means of solving this problem.
Is that clear?  My own experiences with the drugs, prescribed to help
recover from an accident, have suggested that they reduce the benefits
of hard exercise (n=1!).  I suggested that too much weight was one
possible explanation, if the Advil was beneficial.  I have no sure-fire
solution, but for me, swimming after lifting really helps limit the
delayed onset soreness.  I don't go near the hot tub, although some
recommend it.  What works for me may not suit you.

Thanks to those who pointed out my ommission.  Ibuprofin is a good
drug, but can be hard on the stomach when taken continuously.

Frank Williams
frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mitch@noxious.bellcore.com (Michael Ferro)
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:44:21 GMT


Jobst Brandt writes:

> Just as a casual data point, we went on a ride over the coast
>range and back for a 75 mile ride and ~5000 feet of climbing on
>Sunday and surprise, my friends drank about a half a bottle and I
>didn't drink anything all day even though I ate a candy bar at half
>distance. 


This reminds me of those people who post about how they've ridden
X number of miles on anodized rims without any cracks.  Their
arguments are of course not very valid, since they are only one
data point, while people like Jobst have seen hundreds of cracked
anodized rims and virtually no cracked non-adonized rims.

Jobst has used his own experiences with water intake to come to 
the conclusion that those who drink water are only trying
to "impress cars."  But his is only one data point; we've seen
countless examples of people who *need* to drink more water 
than Jobst. Ken Lehner, who is probably at the opposite extreme
of Jobst when it comes to this subject, has supplied us with
data about his water loss during riding (1oz/minute? or some
other sick figure).  Having ridden behind Ken and experiencing
a constant feeling that it was beginning to rain, which turned out
to be Ken's sweat being swept away by the wind, I can believe
his figures.  I also believe Jobst's.  The point is that each
one is simply an extreme data point.  The rest of us probably
fall somewhere in the middle.

The question is why Jobst (rightfully) argues that people should
not extrapolate their data from one un-cracked anodized rim to 
come to conclusions about all anodized rims, yet insists on 
extrapolating from his own water intake to come to the conclusion
that bicyclists with water bottles are simply posers trying to 
impress the cars.

Ride bike! And drink if you need to!

Mitch Ferro

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF Upgrade Policy for '93
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec12.033041.8297@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<nv+r8wd@lynx.unm.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:59:35 GMT

Paul Sery writes:
   I don't want to put words into his mouth but I think Dick was refering to 
   the Cat 1 situation which has changed every few years.

I remain puzzled.  The USCF procedure for ugrading to Cat.1 has not
changed appreciably for the last 12 years.  One thing that did change
the last two years is the restriction on eligibility for mass start
national championships to certain categories.  This provided more
incentive for riders to upgrade, but there was no change in the
upgrading procedure.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: kmb@controls.ccd.harris.com (Kurt Brunton)
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Originator: kmb@rs2
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:41:31 GMT


In article <1992Dec15.141045.27035@schbbs.mot.com>, CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey) writes:
|> ------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
|> Q:
|> >1-The humor of pseudo-dave is like, choose one:
|> > a) John Cleese
|> > b) Robin Williams
|> > c) Andrew Dice Clay
|> > d) Gallagher
|> 
|> >Kim Cary, GSEP-Pepperdine Systems Support, kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu
|> 
|> A:
|>  e) Tim Allen - (Home Improvements)
|> If you don't like this show... other than being out of step with
|> the rest of the world, you won't like Dave Harvey's humor.  True,
|> Tim always seems to develop *some* sensitivity toward the end of
|> each show, but we hammerheads all love him anyway.
|> 
|> Mark (on your left) Hickey

Speaking for myself, I like Home Improvements but don't like Dave. Reminds me of Don
Quixote more than anyone else. I guess that make Mike J. his faithful sidekick.

Kurt
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 08:37:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.070806.16171@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@cs.stanford.edu writes:
>The limit on caffeine is 12 micrograms per milliliter of urine.
>You would have to drink an unreasonable amount of coffee to get there.

what about espresso?  i drink double espressos a lot (it's finals week).
no vivarin for me, thank you.  i like my caffeine in more or less natural
form.

-teddy

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing