From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Mazen and the Nazis, as Always
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:06:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.130300.1@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk> zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.191312.5529@cirrus.com>, chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec17.163909.17873@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec17.020237.12364@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>Stuff deleted
>
>> Whatever your position is on the Arab/Israeli conflict, Mazen, you really
>> should try to outgrow this tired tactic of equating the Jews and the Nazis.
>
>Well who else shall we compare them with. The American settlers, the people 
>responsible for the genocide of the native americans?  The nazis are the 
>equivelant of modern day zionist jews because of the symbiosis between the two!
>and yes you will start shouting again this is an antisemitic statment and
>it is very hurtfull. Well, displacing couple of million palestinians, killing

Not only is it hurtful and disrespectful of the memory of the six
million Jews who were killed in the camps, it doesn't bear even the
slightest resemblance to the truth.  There is no symbiosis between the
two, and in addition, you need to go back to your elementary history.

Even if we're to believe the most anti-Israeli diatribes, the number
displaced in the 1948 war was about 700K.  And the 1948 war was a war
started by Hajj Amin al-Husseini who was anything but a freedom fighter.
He had eliminated tons of political enemies through murder and sedition,
and openly worked with and advocated Nazi Germany's policies. 
Palestinians have their own brothers to thank, in large part, for their
status as refugees. 

>tens of thousands of palestinians and lebanese and hundered of thousands is
>more painfull.

Killing tens of thousands?  I suggest you try consulting someone's
records.  Not even the PLO accuses Israel of this, as it knows the
accusation is just plain false.  

> The only thing comparative to this is the nazis, stalin,
>khmer rouge, americans, the slave wars of europe against black africa, british
>invasion of Australia and so on. Israel sits very comfortably with all theses
>deeds.
 
No, Israel didn't do the things you're accusing it of.  Indeed, no
reputable historian - even rabidly anti-Israel ones - would be willing
to back up the charges you've made.
 
>> Was France also justified in hunting Haj Amin al-Husseini as a Nazi war
>> criminal?  The very founder of the Palestinian Nationalist movement?
>
>Haj Hussieni was fighting an occupier. That occupier was Britain that was
>helping another coccupier to claim his land and country. Haj Amin was a freedom
>fighter. The zionist were agressors. Nazi jermeny for its own political goals
>was helping a freedom fighter who was fighting the aggrtession of jews. Ironic
>isn;n't it? Yes yes racism anti semitisim. 

HOGWASH.  Hajj Amin al-Husseini was a political opportunist, a tinpot
dictator, and a pocket Hitler.  His actions and writings during the war
show rather convincingly that he not only was working actively with the
Nazis but that he *agreed* with their attitudes towards Jews.  

Zionism was not the agressor.  Palestinians could have chosen to accept
the returning Jews; there wouldn't have been a problem (indeed, let's
not forget that Israel accepted the partition agreement, while no Arab
state did; instead, they attempted to destroy the Jewish state before it
was born, and push the Jews into the sea.  Hardly fighting for your
freedom, is it?

>> By not reasoning these things through, you leave yourself exposed.
>> 
>> So let's get back to who did what, and who was justified, who's history is
>> more legitimately tied to the land, etc, etc,  and leave the Nazis in the 
>> cold ground where they belong.
>
>No body have any legitamate claim on palestine other then the Palestinians.
>All those who came to palestine under the British mandate/occupation are thugs
>and aggressors. And no I am not intrested in debating this. I and many other 
>arabs have learned that when it comes to Israel and for that fact the rest of
>the world, dialogue is not the rule power is. If you have power what you say
>is the truth and the position of high moral stnadards. Until the time comes
>that Arabs and Muslims have the Power all what they say is wrong and have the
>lower moral standard so thier is no point in arguments. 

In other words, Kamie, your mind is completely closed.  You might try
opening it up and experiencing the real world.  Like remembering the
fact that Israel is the Jewish homeland, and that we were forced out of
it far, far more brutally than anything that has happened to the
Palestinians by the Romans, nearly 2000 years ago.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic