From: wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna)
Subject: Re: conversion to judaism
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: talk,world
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:24:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.214911.219@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.1777.23052@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>> to: Josh Backon
>>
>>  JB> HUH ????? Utter nonsense !!! If you show me two sets of
>>  JB> national identity cards of Israeli citizens (two different
>>  JB> cards), I'll eat my hat ! Kindly show me "two sets" of
>>  JB> identity cards. Pray tell me Wayne, how do they differ in
>>  JB> dimension or color ? I assure you Wayne that you couldn't
>>  JB> tell apart *my* identity card from that of my Arab student
>>  JB> from Kafr Kari.
>>
>> Josh,
>>
>> Is the information concerning Israeli identity cards in the
>> following article incorrect?
>>
>> Sheldon L. Richman
>> 'Who is a Jew' Matters in Israel
>> The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs
>> March 1990
>> p. 10
>>
>>         ....
>>
>>         Each Israeli must carry an identity card, which has a
>>         line indicating "nationality."  One would think that an
>>         Israeli citizen would have the word "Israeli" on that
>>         line. Not so. The nationality of any Jew is "Jew;" the
>>         nationality of an Israeli Arab--even one who has lived
>>         for decades in, say, Jaffa--is "Arab." In 1970 a Jewish
>>         human rights activist tried to challenge this practice by
>>         asking the Interior Ministry to change his registration
>>         to Israeli. It refused and the Supreme Court upheld the
>>         decision. The court stated that "There is no Israeli
>>         nation separate from the Jewish people."
>
>Wayne. Show me TWO SETS  of identity cards for Israeli citizens.

Backon's argument is the best illustration of sophistry I have seen this 
year on TPM.  The mere fact that the ethnic identity of the person (Arab vs.
Jew) can be determined by looking at the entry for "nationality", obviates the
need for truely distinct ID cards.  The goal and impact are the same.
Having a field that says you're an Arab is, in essence, like having a 
distinct ID card for Arabs.

The significance of this distinction (Arab vs. Jew) becomes evident
when one considers the meaning of ``the Jeiwsh state'' for non-Jewish
citizens of that state (20% of the population now).   Israel calls itslef 
the ``state of the Jewish people,'' not of its citizens.  Any state that 
specifies its citizens and codifies those difference in law, so that 
advantages accrue to one segment of the population and not the other, 
is patently undemocratic and may be judged racist.

>They don't
>differ in size, color or whatever. Since you don't read Hebrew, you could NOT
>tell apart the identity card held by an Israeli, an Israeli Arab, or an Israeli
>Druze citizen. Or for that matter, an Israeli Circassian.

So what?  The IDs are not made for use by outsiders; they're made for use 
inside Israel where those people live.   You know this damn well, Dr. Backon.

>backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL

Waleed Muhanna
-=-
  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
   to do nothing."  -- Edmund Burke
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast