HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Military Reunification
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:41:16 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Nov6.094217.20986@athena.mit.edu> joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:

>According to the Instrument of Surrender of Japan

Could we set up a FAQ for this newsgroup? It seems that once in a while
there were spasms of TI arguements. And, the same type of discussions
were held over and over. 

There were always the same bunch of people who favored TI wanted to cite
this kind of historical documents to support their statement but twist
them as they wish. 

To clear out the noise of those TI arguement, why don't we include those
in the FAQ, so people can refer the TI people to the FAQ, instead of 
carrying this same discussion on the net.

I suggest the topics to be included in the FAQ to be:

1. The historical doucuments of the legitimacy of the ROC government.

2. The survey of the 2.28 incidence.

3. The lineage of the Taiwanese culture.

4. The travel expense between Taiwan and USA.

Those are topics appeared above my head for now. It can grow.
-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
From: gong@dutw34.tudelft.nl (GONG Sunrong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Asian votes on the presidential election
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:11:50 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

In article <1992Nov4.233228.12063@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
>Subject: Asian votes on the presidential election
>Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 23:32:28 GMT
>I found this may interest many Asian American in the presidential
>votes. From 11/4 USA today, it shows that Clinton lead Bush in
>almost every group of people, except Asian and people making
>$75,000 or more, not including party group.
>The statistics are as follow:
>53% Asian vote for Bush while 36% vote for Clinton.
>47% of the people making $75,000 or more vote for Bush and 
>39% vote for Clinton.
>
>My question --> is any correlation between Asian and the people who
>making $75,000 or more ?
>
>Yi-Chieh 

I don't think so (then I don't know much about Asian Americans). But
I think most Asians voted for Bush because: 1. they pay more attention
to candidates' foreign policy than average Americans and Bush is better
for Asia (just as the Jews all voted for Clinton because he's good for 
Israel). 2. Asians tend to see the leaders as kind of Saint and demand
them to be pure. 3. Asians tend to have better memory than whites or
Africans. They remember the good and bad things one did for the country
while the average Americans tends to forget things happened just weeks
ago:). 4. The royalty part of Bush's character also plays well with
Asians, Royalty is very very important to Asians. 5. Asians are more
of capitalists than average Americans. We admires the winners and look
down on the losers of daily life and all worked hard to be the winner. When
they compared their own success story with the huge problems the African
American community faces, they tend to conclude that the problem is not
the government did too little but the poors didn't do enough for themselve.
Asians believe in self-reliance. 
Finally isn't it true that Asian Americans have higher average IQs than
other groups of Americans (just kidding::)....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wcwang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Wei-Chi Wang)
Subject: Re: "Do you mind if she's a virgin or not?"
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:58:44 GMT


In article <BxHGM5.Guv@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Paul
 T.Y. Shih(Taku)) writes:
>
>    Can't agree more. Actually if a girl from Taipei remains virgin
>    after she reach 25, either she's from a very conservative family,
>    or she has some personality problems, or she has some personal
>    probelms. Same for men. And I think that is too unhealthy.
>
>
>    Paul

Gee... I suddenly found I am old and even have some "personality problems"...

I admit that I am a some kind of "old-fashioned" person.  Don't think that
I am more than 40.  On the contrary I am only 28 and I am from the fashioned
city Taipei.  Maybe I am too innocent, but I "believe" most of my single 
Chinese friends (most of them are beyond 28) keep their virginity.

I am always not shame (also not proud) of admitting that I have no experience.
One of the most important things I learn in U.S. here is: Everybody has his/her
own way to select life style, if that doesn't bother people.  In my own
opinion, the physical relationship is a bottom line.  Once you accross the
line, you should know that you have to be responsible for that.

One true story may let you folks to think about.  I have a friend here in
Columbus asked me if I am a virgin (Is that a right word?  I am male),  I said
yes, and he laughed at me.  But when I asked the same question of him, he said
"No comment!"

Chinese men, ah?

Wei-Chi Wang
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: Re: KMT campus spying activities in the U.S.
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:05:58 GMT

To the Canadian:

If you're not Chinese, then, shut your mouth up!

Didn't your mother teach you not to get involved in other people's
domestic dispute?

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao)
Subject: Re: KMT campus spying activities in the U.S.
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:49:40 CST
Originator: kao@sun-29.cae.wisc.edu


In article <92Nov08.183921.22629@acs.ucalgary.ca>, bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens) writes:
|> In article <9231222.17195@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
|> >I dare Tim Chuang (and others who agree with him) to name *ONE* country in
|> 
|> 
|> Well, I am pretty sure that my own country does not care about what I
|> might say or write about its domestic politics, nor about the people
|> I would associate with, etc..., etc...  
|> 


One major difference about Ammerican with other countries is that the Ammerican  is
is so good at spyying their citizen that the ammerican can fools part of its more
ignorant citizens and makes these citizens think no one is watching them.

A second major difference is that, beside being interested in watching their
own citizen, the ammerican has a habit of shooting other countries' politicans
or screwing around with other countries' politics.  

 (No proof is given here because I think most of the s.c.t netters
 are intellegent enough to think of plenty examples by themself)

 (I spell "ammerican" on purpose to aoivding being picked up by the key-words
searching programs used by the ammerican goverment)



(If, by chance, I am picked by your key-works scanning program, please
believe me I am just a bored graduate student and I have nothing against
your country. Everyone knows me know I love ammerican.)
From: u235@rex.chb.uokhsc.edu (Yung-Jin Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Reduldant and stupid obligatory military service
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:47:11 GMT
Organization: University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, OKC
Originator: usenet@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu

In article <1992Nov7.230855.6437@hellgate.utah.edu> tsay%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Chey-Woei Tsay) writes:
>I just read the book "Subtle is the Load -- The Science and the Life of
>Albert Einstein" written by A. Pais. According to the book, Einstein
>also managed to avoid the military service (German). He did this because
>he was terrified by the soldiers in a parade who followed the line
>without own thought.
>
>Any comment?
>
>tsay

	What do you want to hear from netters?  A genius has the tendency
to 'avoid the military service'?  Why don't you illustrate the U.S.
President-elect Bill Clinton?  Wrong is wrong no matter what it happens
to a particular person or not.  As I can remember, you post this letter
twice because I read it twice.  What do you really want to say?

Yung-jin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tchuang@cello.ecn.purdue.edu (Tim D. Chuang)
Subject: Re: Taiwan News (late)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:03:41 GMT

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|		THERE ARE ALSO MANY "CELLS" OVERSEAS			|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
			Reported by
		Tong Ching-fong & Cheng Tong-hua
	(published in The Journalist, May 27-June 3, 1991 in Taiwan)

Activities of campus spying are not only found in Taiwan; they have also
extended across the Pacific Ocean to America.

On May 24, a student returning from the U.S. called and told a story about
campus spying activities in the Washington D.C. area.

This student, who did not identify himself, said that in the Washington
D.C. area there were foreign students who came from military schools or the
police academy in Taiwan.  These students were on government financial aid
and most of them carried a mission from the Taiwanese government to spy on
other students on campus.  They had to hand in reports to a certain division
of the CCNAA (Coordination Council for North American Affairs) providing
information regarding activities of local Chinese organizations and student
organizations, in particular, the activities of the Taiwanese Student
Associations.

They earned from $500 to $600 per month as compensation for their reports.
In the past, this kind of operation was carried out secretly; the spies were
invisible, like "cells." The secret operation became exposed when a senior
military student was graduating and looking for his successor.

The student who provided the above information also indicated that those
missionary students can be identified by the different passports they
have--their passports have brown covers while regular students have green
passports.

(Translated by Adie Lin)
============================================================================

Tim Chuang
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Taiwan News (late)
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:24:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1992Nov5.063518.24811
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Nov5.032901.8887@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tchuang@cello.ecn.purdue.edu (Tim D. Chuang) writes...
> 
>Sure this is an old case in the 1980's, but martial law was not lifted until
>1987 and if your campus has a Friends of Free China club, than you can be
>sure that you will see those individuals on the KMT pay roll.

Yes, I heard this before and believed KMT did. But giving current political 
atomsphere in Taiwan, those TIers can now openly support TI without fear.
I dont think KMT has to pay for this anymore.

But your previous article was accusing those people who NOW disagrees with 
you ARE on the KMT's payroll WITHOUT foundation that only shows you have 
run out of argument. In fact many netters are much more sophisticated than 
you and know how to make judgement. 

This is just like the story I heard about some old TIers.

In the early years, some pro-Japan TIers have called "Long lives the Heaven 
Emperor", "Return Taiwan to Japan", "adopt the Japanese language as Taiwanese 
language", etc in the TI magazines. Do you think we should accuse you by 
provding this old case? At least not me because I dont need these to support 
my argument.

I am glad I have never been on the KMT's or others payroll for such purpose 
so that I can feel free to criticize those misleading and faulty statements.
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Reduldant and stupid obligatory military service
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:27:19 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Nov8.132210.20093@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao) writes:
>
>
>army was an offensive force and the ROC is a offensive force. In my opion, the

What is the definition of an "offensive force"? Your above statement is
misleading at best. Does ROC government constantly threaten the neighboring
countries by using offense? It is the PRC which constantly threatens the
ROC if ROC went independent.

>third point makes the greatest difference, an offensive force is going to
>start a war , to start the killing, but a defensive force is to protect their
>homeland, protect its family and wife.
>

Don't you want to protect your other family member instead of just your
wife?

> .....

-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Taiwan News (late)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:59:21 GMT


In article <hongzen.721456557@coombs>, hongzen@coombs.anu.edu.au (Wang) writes...
>li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
> 
> 
>>In article <1992Nov4.030759.17871@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tchuang@cello.ecn.purdue.edu (Tim D. Chuang) writes...
>>>My uncle did nothing but attend a rally.  He saw some people being beaten
>>>by the police and acted to stop an act of police brutality.  It is possible
>>>that he might have saved someones life.  He is a hero for not allowing
>>>an injustice to happen.  6 of the ten individuals who were taken were
>>>released.  My uncle is one of the 4 who was not released.  Two of those
>>>four individuals are in the hospital suffering from the police brutality.
> 
>>You said your uncle did nothing but attend a rally. According to newspaper,
>>there was about 40-50 demonstrators in this rally. Why police arrested ten 
>>out of them and your uncle is one of last four has not been released? Did 
>>he really do "nothing" or for other reason?
> 
>Your reasoning here is showing serious defects. I can take the example in China to prove that communist party did not kill any GOOD CITIZEN except ANTI-
>REVOLUTIONARY in Tiananmen massacre. Why did communist mititary kill only ? 
>persons and didn't kill 100,000 demonstrators? 

I dont know where you are originally from. But you are giving a ridiculous
example. At presnet, CCP regime is one of the worst regimes in the world
and today's Taiwan is certainly much better (though far from perfect) than
CCP's China in most of areas. That is why I oppose the unification with such
China. In my opinion, comparing Taiwan with CCP's China on the current human
rights record is an insult.

>Here you have already assumed that TAiwan police would never arrest GOOD man
>except BAD guy. You committed an error of examplization.

Why dont you read my posting carefully? Did I assume "Taiwan police would
never arrest GOOD man". If I have assumed that I would have said Mr. Chuang
lied.

I believe nowadays Taiwan policemen arrested "good" people is not very
common, so Mr. Chuang's posting arises my doubts. All I did is to ask Mr.
Chuang why his uncle got arrested and still in custody. After Mr. Chuang
offered explanation, did I say a word? If someone tells you Mr. xxx got
arrested by police for nothing. Do you think it is unresonable to ask
"Did he really do "nothing" or for other reason?". Unless you think such
question is not allowed.

Just for the record, when Mr. Chuang provided explanation in his later posting
but also implied me on the KMT's payroll. He did apologize to me later via
E-mail and I responded to him with my best wish to his relatives and think he
and his relatives want to do something good for Taiwan but I disageed with
their approach.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING)
Subject: Re: [youth] teenage parenthood in China
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:29:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.011122.19573@leland.Stanford.EDU> chungdan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zhong Qi Iao (Daniel)) writes:
>     [Temas pli junula gravedeco.]
>
>     The seven-o'clock Chinese language news talked about teenage
>pregnancy in Taiwan.  What a deterioration of western winds to China!
              ^^^^^^                                            ^^^^^

     What has teenage pregnancy in Taiwan has got to do with China?  I do not
see any relationship at all.  

A
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: junlin@cs.umr.edu (Jun-Lin Liu)
Subject: Research areas in CS Dept. in Taiwan? 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:42:44 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla
Originator: junlin@mcs213c.cs.umr.edu

Thanks for the help in advance, and, sorry, no comment to those two topics 
above.  

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
     Junlin Liu     | Computer Science Dept.   | (O) (314) 341-6434 |
     -----------    | Univ. of Missouri, Rolla |     ----------     |
  junlin@cs.umr.edu | Rolla, MO 65401          | (H) (314) 341-3166 |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG)
Subject: Re: KMT campus spying activities in the U.S.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:56:24 GMT

In article <YCHEN.92Nov11122510@sp92.csrd.uiuc.edu> ychen@sp92.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen) writes:
>In article <kqB=SB@engin.umich.edu> chyang@australorp.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
>
>>  "KMT brain washed Chinese?"  I don't know If I am one of them or not.
>> All I know is that we are trying to improve our society with the installation
>                     ^^
>> of democracy while other people are trying to take it away with violence.  
>
>Just some questions about your statement:
>
>Who are "we"? Do they include the KMT party? 
>What did you do to improve the democracy? Show some facts. 

sure.  more than that.  "we" also include my dogs.
the fact is:  i let my dogs vote their favorite dog food for their dinner.
is this democrate enough?

cs shao.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Taiwan News (late)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:36:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.170954.10020@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao) writes:

>Today I had a discussion with my american officemates about the situation in
>Yugoslavia. As usual when it came to human right, these Christian turned a little
>bossy and thought they stood for human's conscience.
>
>But I feel compelled to point out to them most of the masscre were commited by
>Cristian against the muslium population in Yugoslavia. They thought I am kidding.
>
>I like american. But when they become both bossy and ignorant, I really can
>not stand them. 
>
>Well what could I do? They are all my good friends and I enjoy their company
>most of the times.
>
>I left the room and continued my experiment. 

This why I said that unlike Dave implied, the Bosnian situation, just like the
human rights situation in China, is *not* a Christian morality issue.  In
both cases, IMO, the regimes (the Serbs and the CCP, respectively) are
committing atrocities *against humanity*, and foreign governments that
intervene due to this should not be considered meddling in other people's
affairs.

Dave, if you still consider it meddling, would you also consider police who
arrest child molestors (from the children's families) meddling in domestic
affairs?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: Re: KMT campus spying activities in the U.S.
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:32:16 GMT

bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens) writes:

>In article <9231412.15685@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:

>>Didn't your mother teach you not to get involved in other people's
>>domestic dispute?

>As for domestic disputes, where are the Australian disputes, or the 
>disputes about the US, or about Canada, or about my own 
>country?  Don't I remember that you were quoting something about 
>Clinton and the US in your original posting?  If you really
>believe the silly argument that you have no right to say anything
>about other countries, you might consider practicing what you 
>preach too....   :-)   Come on, kid, grow up, will you.

We are talking about whether ROC government monitors its citizens
is right or wrong, and since you are not Chinese (assuming you are
not), you are not in a position to judge our government; and I only
quoted the Clinton/USA part because Tim Chuang keeps telling me
(through mails/posts) how great USA is, and keeps comparing it to
the ROC.  Again, I don't think the US government did the wrong thing.
If you think the US government did the wrong thing, you can cross-post
it on soc.culture.usa.

>Further, you insult 99% of the countries of the world, and then you
>come back and claim that it doesn't concern them?  Funny logic...

No, I didn't insult 99% of countries of the world, because I don't
believe monitoring its own citizens is wrong, so, how can it be an
insult?

Canada is a nice country, isn't it?  :-)

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
From: hongzen@coombs.anu.edu.au (Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Taiwan News (late)
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:35:57 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:


>In article <1992Nov4.030759.17871@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tchuang@cello.ecn.purdue.edu (Tim D. Chuang) writes...
>>My uncle did nothing but attend a rally.  He saw some people being beaten
>>by the police and acted to stop an act of police brutality.  It is possible
>>that he might have saved someones life.  He is a hero for not allowing
>>an injustice to happen.  6 of the ten individuals who were taken were
>>released.  My uncle is one of the 4 who was not released.  Two of those
>>four individuals are in the hospital suffering from the police brutality.

>You said your uncle did nothing but attend a rally. According to newspaper,
>there was about 40-50 demonstrators in this rally. Why police arrested ten 
>out of them and your uncle is one of last four has not been released? Did 
 
Your reasoning here is showing serious defects. I can take the example in China to prove that communist party did not kill any GOOD CITIZEN except ANTI-
REVOLUTIONARY in Tiananmen massacre. Why did communist mititary kill only ? 
persons and didn't kill 100,000 demonstrators? 
 
Here you have already assumed that TAiwan police would never arrest GOOD man
except BAD guy. You committed an error of examplization.
B
B
B
B
B

>he really do "nothing" or for other reason?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING)
Subject: Re: parents reaction to dating americans
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:42:08 GMT

In article <23656@galaxy.ucr.edu> lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
>
>Canadians are probably less conditioned to this particular
>stereotype than Americans are, given the history of Asian
>Americans in the US (the Chinese building railroads, the
>Japanese in interm camps, etc.).  What's the history of
>Asian Americans in Canada, anyway?
>
     It is the same.  Chinese workers were brought to Canada to build the
railroads too.  Japanese-Canadians were sent to internment camps throughout
the country during Second World War.
From: vicks@acs.bu.edu (Vickie Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Lin Ching Xia
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:15:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: vicks@acs.bu.edu


Does anybody know where I can get a gif file of Lin Ching Xia?

vicks@acs.bu.edu