HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:22:02 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:

|					      Seeing is believing,
|	and when you physically see results, and receive 3rd hand
|	reports of improved behavior IMMEDIATELY,  that's science.

That's anecdote.

|	Of course I don't expect anyone who's made up their minds
|	already to believe evidence.  I don't want to confuse you
|	with the facts.

Don't worry, you're not.  You're attempting to confuse everyone with
anecdotes.  But that's all right.  Everyone else is trying to confuse
you with science.

If that bothers you, you should try keeping sci.med out of the list
of newsgroups you crosspost to.
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.sex
From: ramon@convex.com (Ramon Dominguez)
Subject: Re: Female "Circumcision"
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:04:14 GMT
Organization: The Arts Babblative and Scribblative
Keywords: ** PLEASE READ IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT!! **
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <2739@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh) writes:
=>Apparently it's common custom in several African nations to remove
=>the clitoral hood, the clitoris and some, if not all, of the labia;
=>any/all of the above terrify us because in this society how *does* one
=>raise a child who's been mutilated like this?

Don't you know circumcision isn't mutilation?  What's good for the gander
is good for the goose.

-- 
Ramon Dominguez             | "Work is the curse of the drinking class"       
Convex Computer Corporation |                            --Oscar Wilde
ramon@convex.com            | "Ceci n'est pas une .signature file"
From: mark@whizbang.wariat.org (Mark W. Schumann)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Neighbor's kid, higher education?
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 18:31:11 GMT
Organization: The Software Sweatshop, Cleveland, Ohio USA


We're interested in your ideas on helping to motivate a young friend to
pursue her best and most appropriate education after high school.

We live in an area not well served by public schools, but my neighbor
Laura (name changed to protect the innocent) is attending a public
eighth grade because of economic circumstances.  She has always achieved
good grades when prepared to work hard, and is a blazing Logo
programmer.  Laura's a little old for her grade level, having been
non-promoted two years of the past eight.

Laura has "adopted" <judy@whizbang> and me as counselors and coaches
since we bought the house three down from hers in 1989.  Her father left
the family a long time ago, while her mother is supportive but not sure
how to deal with her obvious potential.  BTW, Laura's mom thinks we're
Good Influences (tm) and encourages her to hang out at our place,
subject to the obvious limits of homework, bedtimes, and patience.

Judy, a teacher, is pretty sure Laura can get her academic act together
during high school and make a good start at college in a few years. 
Laura likes school this year and is even starting to get interested in
my college alumni (Grinnell '88) classletters and talking about what my
classmates are up to these days.  We think it would be good to encourage
Laura to get the best possible education for her abilities, and possibly
later on to help her select an appropriate institution.  (This is
important since she doesn't know many people with degrees.)  Of course
we want to do it without pestering and with respect for her mother's
primary role.

Similar experiences, particularly success stories, would be very much
appreciated.  We think Laura can really "go places" under the right
circumstances.

--
Mark W. Schumann/3111 Mapledale Avenue/Cleveland, Ohio 44109-2447 USA
Domain: mark@whizbang.wariat.org                      CIS: 73750,3527
"We're not nuts or anything; I mean *I'm* not nuts." <whizbang!judy>
From: exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How to get daughter more career-minded
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:12:53 GMT
Reply-To: exusag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 4216@porthos.cc.bellcore.com, jackie8@dasher.uucp (Jackie Brady) writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.160918.12999@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
> >We have a 4 years old daughter who is really bright.  Her preschool
> [stuff on trying to get a 4 year old thinking of a career deleted]
> 
> I may be opening up a flame war for asking this, but does anyone
> else think that a 4 year old is just a little *too* young to have
> a career formulated already?  I mean, really.  I wouldn't think of
> taking anything that a 4 year old says regarding what she wants to
> do when she grows up seriously.  And I know that this was discussed
> ad nauseum a month or so ago, but in my opinion banning a movie based
> around a talking mermaid who has a talking lobster for a friend because
> it has the heroine being a housewife to a prince is a little....I don't
> know what the word would be.....over cautious.?  I mean.  It's a cartoon.
> I don't see how that could affect her life so dramatically that you would
> need to ban it.
> 
> But then again, this is only my opinion.  Maybe I should just leave
> well enough alone and go back to lurking.

I agree with you.  Let the child be a CHILD.  A four year old shouldn't be worrying
about what to be, but playing.  One day Ethan wants to be an ice cream man, the next
day he says he going to build houses when he grows up.  Aaron (5 yrs.) now wants to
be a race car driver.  If he was in his late teens I might worry about it, but not
now as next week he will probably want to be a policeman.

Serena
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
From: larry@b8.b8.ingr.com (Larry Billings)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Summary: Aren't we over-reacting?
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:03:30 GMT

In article <LOWRY.92Oct4152902@rotor.watson.ibm.com>, lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:
> In article <1992Oct3.153214.25705@newstand.syr.edu> kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>  ...
> 
> The problem I have with what the doll says is not that it's
> unrealistic or unreasonable, but that it reinforces some existing
> stereotypes that are damaging to women (and to society in general).

I've never been aware that it was a stereotype that women can't do math.  My
math classes (oh so long ago) major competition for numero-uno was a female.
We both ageraged over 100 points every semester (you recieved 10 points for
class participation), and we switched places often.  BTW number 3 was always
a female.
But, this is not really the point I was going to make.  We are talking about
a doll here, nothing more, nothing less.  The social impact a doll has on
the masses has to be very small.  Perhaps, they should make a Ken doll that
agrees that it is hard for him also.

> So when Barbie says "Math is hard," you need to think, not just about
> whether it represents a reasonable situation, but whether it's going

No, you need to think "It's a doll, not reality".

> imbalanced means of countering the stereotype.  But Barbie can do far
> more damage, 

But only if you step on her with bare feet. :)

> likelihood to view Barbie as "typical" and therefore to generalize.

Typical of what?  A doll?

> So I do believe this message was an unfortunate choice by Mattel.
> 
> Also note that this isn't just a women's thing.  Imagine a G.I.  Joe
> doll saying "I don't like poetry."  Mightn't that make it just a
> little bit easier for a boy to dismiss poetry?

I never had a GI Joe or any talking  figures, but still did not like poetry.

> --
> Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
> IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598

Larry Billings

FLAME AWAY even though I'm not wearing any flame retardent underwear, because
as they say "Some like it HOT"

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: marsi@sdiego.uucp (Marsi Hauer)
Subject: twins
Organization: Harris Computer Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:06:09 GMT
Summary: twins
Keywords: twins


In misc.kids you write:

>I have twin daughters who will be entering kindergarten next
>fall. I will soon be beginning the search for a private school
>for them (no flames, please; I don't consider my local public
>schools to be an option for us at this time).
>I am planning to put my girls be in the same kindergarten class
>(because at this point I think this is what they would both
>strongly prefer) but am wondering how important it might be to
>separate them later on.  Many of the private schools in my area are
>small and have only one class in each grade. A few have two classes
>in each grade, but competition around here is steep so I have
>no idea whether we'll get into one of those. What I'm wondering
>is, is it REALLY important to be able to separate them later?
>Should I eliminate the idea of a school with only one class
>per grade? I would like to hear how parents of twins have dealt with this. 
>I'm sure much depends on the particular kids and their
>relationship (how competitive they are, etc.), but would like
>to hear how separation/non-separation has worked for others.
>With my kids, I worry more about them sublimating some of their
>talents to avoid competing with sister in a particular area. 
>We think they already do this to some extent.

>Thanks for any input.
>--

> Bea Deering              bea%sybase.com
> Sybase, Inc.                  or
> dj Emeryville, Calif.       {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!bea 

Bea,

I am not a mother of twins, but I am an identical twin and I do have some
suggestions.

When my sister and I were small and just started school, we did have the same
kindergarten class, but from then on out, we were always in separate classes allthe way through high school.  There were times that we would have liked to have the same class, but in the end it was to our advantage to be separated.

You will find that teachers (in either public and private schools) will tend to compare your twins.  Having them separated allows them to grow as individuals which is very important.  You will find their strengths and weaknesses more quickly as they go through the grades and it will be to their advantage.  If they are together, they may tend, as you say, to not want to show up the other one and
probably won't do too much individual growing.  It's most important not to compare them and pit them against the other.  I had some teachers do that to my sister and I and it was very detrimental.  

Remember, just because they were born twins, they are still two separate and unique individuals who just happen to be lucky enough to be born with their best
friend.  Let them shine their own lights and enjoy the rainbow.

Marsi Hauer
....uunet!sdsu!sdiego!marsi


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:17:46 GMT

In article <day_kevran-061092165526@130.252.108.211> day_kevran@tandem.com (Kevran Day ) writes:
>I forgot one the other day - my husband has a very good friend 
>named Dick Gentle!  Seriously, would you do that to a kid?

My first job ouut of college, I worked for Dick Boring! I had to stifle a 
giggle or two during my on-campus interview.

Laura Floom
From: sdavis@khan.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Susan Davis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Nostalgia Toys
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:13:48 GMT
Reply-To: susan.davis@ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Susan Davis)
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Microelectronic Products Division

>In article <2275@ncr-mpd.FtCollins.NCR.COM> sdavis@khan.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Susan Davis) writes:
>>
>>I remember *slime* and *pop-rocks* --- Maybe those are still around??
>>I would guess that due to my age, many of the toys we had are still
>>around.  (I am 25).
>>

Laura Floom writes:

Pop Rocks were big when I was in my late teens. i was too old to enjoy them,
but they were sort of fun. I remember they were taken off the market for a
while, because they were afraid that kids woudl put too much in thier mouth
and explode, or something like that. I guess they decided there would be no
exploding kids, because they are back on the market.

Slime???? I am beginning to feel culturally deprived!
Laura Floom


--------

I remember pop rocks when I was about 10 (1976).  Slime was this green stuff
that looked like snot and was cold and clammy.  It was sold in a "garbage can"
about 8oz plastic with a lid.  I seem to remember that it could be slimed
(strung about) or broken into pieces -- I don't know how, but it seemed to
be different consistency depending on how it was handled.  Anyway, it was
gross!  Slime was around about 1977-1978.  We saved our allowance for it!
We also saved for 45 records (Shawn Cassidy and anything from the movie Greese)!

-- Susan Davis (mommy to Ryan 18 months and ?? -31weeks)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Susan P. Davis, Design Services |  >>>>                 Susan.Davis@ncr-mpd |  |NCR Microelectronics  (AT&T)    | >>>>         Susan.Davis@ColoSpgs.NCR.COM |  |Colorado Springs, CO            |>>>>(719) 596-5795 x435 VOICEplus 463-0435 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: debbie_ulan@admin.educ.alberta.ca. (debbie ulan)
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Followup-To: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med,chi.general
Organization: Planning & Data Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:17:30 GMT

Interesting topic.  At the University of Alberta Canada a program for ADD
children is being done.  The bases for the program is cognitive retraining
of the children.

In article <1992Oct1.130847.7837@ll.mit.edu>, yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan
Yasutovich) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Sep30.180321.25015@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com writes:
> >
> >An excellent introduction to ADD for a layperson is
> >Sally Smith's "No Easy Answers, the Learning Disabled
> >Child at Home and at School".  Most bookstores can order
> >it, but it's not often found on the shelves.  It's a $5
> >paperback.
> >
> >It is full of references and resources.  It's a very
> >affirming book for parents, teachers, and people who
> >have ADD because it takes a lot of the
> >behaviors out of the realm of frustrations, judgements,
> >and aggravations on the interpersonal level, and helps
> >put them in the context of what it's like to *be* the
> >ADD person, and how parents and teachers can realistically
> >help an ADD person.
> >
> >I wrote a long paper on Adults with LDs when I was in grad
> >school back in 84; I'd be happy to talk with people via
> >email about getting you a copy if you want to send me an 8.5x11 
> >SASE with enough postage for 30 pages.  It's a little out
> >of date, but still quite useful and full of references.
> >
> >[One of the reasons this interests me is that I am a 
> >40 year old successful professional who appeared to be destined 
> >for high school dropout status (in spite of a very high IQ) 
> >due to ADD (they called it MBD or minimal brain dysfunction 
> >back in the 50s), hyperactivity, and the numerous emotional 
> >problems that go along with that.  I was on dexedrine for years, 
> >and was a very unhappy child in school.
> >
> >Working through this, finding out how I learned effectively, 
> >and becoming a strong advocate on my own behalf so that I could 
> >succeed has been as great a source of satisfaction for me as 
> >anything could be.]
> >
> >Holly
> >--
> >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >   Holly Hendricks
> >   Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH 
> >   hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com
> >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> 	"ADD" is a falacy.  The majority if not all kids/people
> 	with this type of behaviour/attention "disorder" is due
> 	to allergic/sensitivity reactions to various foods and
> 	things in their environment.
> 
> 	Prescribing something like Ritalin for "ADD", is like
> 	taking "downers" to counteract the "uppers" you just took.
>  
> -- 
> 	Alan Yasutovich
> 	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
> 	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
> 	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: grant@panhed.psc.edu (Shirl Grant)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
Date: 5 Oct 1992 11:13:07 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


One high chool near mine had a girl named "Orange Pulp".  this was the mid-70's.

Anyone rememeber the footbal player "Chip Glass"?

-Shirl
From: alison@husky.informix (Alison Suggs)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: orthopedic pediatrician
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:21:48 GMT
Reply-To: alison@husky.informix
Organization: Informix Software

I2) I am interested in hearing experiences one may have had with
>young children who have had to wear leg/body braces.  Any form
>of experience you feel comfortable relating would be appreciated
>(including any arm chair psychological interpretions).  
>

My daughter is currently 5 months old and wears a harness to hold
her legs in what I call the "sumo wrestler" position.  Its function
is to force the ligament which is supposed to keep her hipbone in
her hip socket to do its job.  I have a friend whose child wore
the same harness in order to cause a shallow hip socket to deepen.

Like the other poster, I am much more bothered by this harness than
my daughter.

Alison Suggs
Mom to Danika
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: baby@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (maureen.paone)
Subject: YEA, YEA, YEA Baby #3 Is On The Way!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:19:05 GMT

I guess you figured out the GREAT news! Hubby and I just found
out Im pregant and the baby is due approx the last week in
May. My son Bryan will be almost 5 and my daughter will have just
turned 2. I really really really wanted to have another baby,
while hubby really really didnt. But he seems to be adjusting
sort of! I havent told Bryan yet, but hes been bugging us to
have another baby so I know he'll be real excited. Anyway, I
do have a question to ask. With my first two children, both
births occurred in a hospital. Bryan was born via caserean
due to his large size (9.2oz) and Shawn was born via vacuum
extractor and forceps. Well I was thinking of having this
baby at home with a midwife, or at a hospital with a midwife.
My husband seems to think I'm delirious. Actually most people
I've talked to think I am! Its not very common around here.     
But anyway what I would like are peoples experiences with
midwives, or midwives vs doctors. Good and bad. I would like
to show my husband that it isnt so uncommon, and perhaps
we could both learn a little bit more about this practice.


Thanks,
Maureen

-- 
*************************************************
Maureen A. Paone                                *
Proud Mama to Bryan Michael and Shawn Elizabeth *
*************** 8-18-88 *********** 4-27-91 *****
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: njamal@amherst.edu
Subject: Re: Female "Circumcision"
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst Mass.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:39:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.010657.9020@jetsun.weitek.COM>, nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) writes:
> In article <1992Sep29.113043.1@amherst.edu> njamal@amherst.edu writes:
> 
>>This is simply not true.  Female circumsision is NOT a Muslim practice.
>>It is not practices in the Muslim Arab world and in parts of Africa where
>>it is practiced (e.g., Ethiopia and Eritrea in East Africa), it is
>>practiced by the Christian population!
> 
> Njamal, what country do you come from. Malaysian and Egyptian Muslims do 
> practice it. Iranians and Afghanis don't (to the best of my knowledge).
> I believe it is widespread in Saudi, but unheard of in Lebanon.
> 

I was born in Egypt, grew up in Lebanon and am a Palestinian.  Malaysa
is not an Arab country.  Iran and Afghanistan are also not Arab countries.
These three are Muslim but not Arab.  My point was that female 
circumcision is not a MUSLIM practice per se.  There are many Muslim 
cultures that do not practice it (e.g., the Arab world as a whole).  
(By the way, do you have any proof that it is practiced in Egypt?
In Saudi Arabia?)  And there and some cultures (e.g., Ethiopia and 
Eritrea) where it is practiced by (in this case, Coptic) Christians.  

> 
> -- 
> The Earth Pig Bourne....
> 
> nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
> nadja@weitek.com

Nuhad Jamal
njamal@amherst


Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
From: susan@csbvax.uucp (Susan Finkelman)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:49:36 GMT

In article <LOWRY.92Oct4152902@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:

>Also note that this isn't just a women's thing.  Imagine a G.I.  Joe
>doll saying "I don't like poetry."  Mightn't that make it just a
>little bit easier for a boy to dismiss poetry?

What I can't imagine is a protest against such a doll.  So what if
little boys don't like poetry?  They won't make a lot of money with it
anyway.{:-) I don't see much discontent with boys' stereotypes.  
But then my step-son won't read a story with a female
protagonist unless he's forced to in school, either...

Susan
susan@varian.com
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Edward G. Nilges)
Subject: Re: The Loss of Innocence
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: Neither Finnish nor Urdu
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 00:02:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.230039.6995@island.COM> guido@island.COM (Guido Marx) writes:
>
>That would depend upon which freedom you are talking about.  Clearly,
>all Americans have the right to practice whatever religion they
>desire.  However, AMENDMENT III states that "No soldier shall, in time
>of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner,
>but in a manner to be prescribed by law."  Clearly, the freedom
>ennumerated by this amendment ONLY applies to people who own houses.
>If you don't own a house, it offers you no protection.  In this case
>you have to be a homeowner to avail yourself of this freedom.

Guido, fart in a bottle and paint it.  You've think you've established
that one minor amendment (whose importance has diminished since the time
of the Revolution) doesn't apply to non-property owners, yet the "man's
home is his castle" doctrine clearly extends all homeowner principles to
renters, including my right as a renter not to quarter the 101st
Airborne.  Your absurd defense of the pernicious idea that rights depend
on income stands refuted.

>
>AMENDMENT IV states in part "The right of the people to be secure in 
>their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable 
>searches and seizures, shall not be violated ...".  Clearly, you must
>own "houses, papers, and effects" to fully avail yourself of this right.

(Sigh) your silly claim was, I recall, that ALL rights are conditioned on
property ownership.  You've triumphantly established that SOME rights
are (logically rather than legally) conditioned by their very wording on
property ownership.  Whereas many other rights are not so conditioned,
and the conditioning in the rights you mention is logical and verbal in
nature.  That is, the amendment (under equal protection) applies to the
few "papers and effects" of the homeless man as it does to Donald
Trump.

Newsgroups: misc.legal