From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: "I only want to hurt your for a little while" - "Prince"
Summary: Doesn't it hurt to always be going backwards, Kibbles? 
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Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions?  Dream on... 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 01:49:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.233831.4764@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.150717.28636@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct3.180259.402@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep29.174017.20251@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>>>>Hint - it's not 3 inches of air separating the fetus from becoming a child.
>>>>If you press up against a woman without her permission, she doesn't have
>>>>the right to blow you away.  If you try to stick your dick in her without
>>>>her permission, she does.  
>>>
>>>Only in some states.
>>Please post the name of a state which has a law forbidding the use of lethal
>>force to prevent a rape, Oh Mighty Net.Lawyer.
>
>In the absence of a special exception, ANY deliberate use of lethal force upon 
>one person by another is considered murder or manslaughter, and is thus 
>forbidden. All 50 states have murder and/or manslaughter laws. If you or Larry 
>want to contend that special exceptions for rape self-defense exist in all 
>states and every case, I feel that the burden of proof is on YOU to cite each 
>and every one.

Stop evading the issue, Kibbles.  Larry said up there that if somebody tries
to rape a woman, she has the right to use lethal force to stop them.  Your
reply was "Only in some states".

So please tell me which states have laws saying that it is illegal to use
lethal force to stop a rape.

>
>>>Only as a recent innovation.
>>Please post the case citations where a person was convicted of Murder for
>>using lethal force to prevent a rape, Oh Mighty Net.Lawyer.
>
>The charge probably wouldn't be "murder", it would probably be "manslaughter".
>I don't have access to a law library or legal database, so I can't provide
>specific case cites. However, since you and Larry are arguing for _exceptions_ 
>to established rules of law, I think it's reasonable to ask you to document 
>your case.

Larry is not arguing for any _exceptions_ [sic] to established rules of law.
He stated that if a person tries to rape a woman, the woman is allowed to
use lethal force to stop the rape.  Your reply was "Only as a recent
innovation".

So, please post the case citations where a person was convicted of Murder
(or Manslaughter) for using lethal force to prevent a rape.

>
>>>Only for deterrent effect, which doesn't apply to the abortion issue.
>>
>>Um, if somebody comes up and tries to forcibly perform an abortion on a
>>woman, I think you could pretty much get away with "minimun force necessary"
>>to prevent them.
>
>As I explained to Larry, there is a miscommunication here: the sentence above 
>was intended to refer to the purpose for which the laws were created -- 
>deterrence of would-be rapists -- *NOT* the circumstances under which the 
>exceptions apply. 

Ok, I'll buy that.  Thanks for answering.

>>>Please stop citing this aberration as if it were a relevant, established 
>>>legal principle, Larry. I've corrected you multiple times now, you're 
>>>starting to border on intellectual dishonesty.
>>
>>Please prove that this "aberration" is not a "relevant, established legal
>>principal".
>
>I have typed the relevant parts of the legal definition of "self-defense"
>many times already. Doug Holtsinger has also cited legal authorities on this
>point. Larry has not only ignored all of the substantial legal arguments, but
>the only "legal authority" he has cited is some standing policy of the NYPD.
>I think it's high time Larry anted up. We've already done our part.

Ok.  Larry is saying (correct me if I'm wrong, ok Larry?) that the use
of lethal force to prevent a rape is an established legal principal.

Please prove him wrong.
--
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=National Coming Out Day is Oct 11th, 1992. Closets Are A Place To Put Clothes=
Newsgroups: talk.abortion