HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Any real benefit to monorails?
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:58:35 GMT

Evan Hunt writes:

> What I'm wondering is, are monorails unusually efficient, or inexpensive,
> or low-maintainance, or anything else that made them seem attractive
> thirty years ago?  Or was it just the same plastic-age optimism that
> made people think naugahyde and polyester were cool?

As was mentioned, this subject has been around a number of times.  Just
the same let me throw in a mechanical analysis that may add a little
perspective.  The "rail" of a monorail, unlike the Wuppertal hanging
monorail, is a concrete beam with six running surfaces for the six
wheels that take the place of two wheels on standard RR.  These wheels
are flangeless with an elastomeric tread.  The principal load carrying
wheels run on less than 18 inch gauge track (Ctr-Ctr wheel spacing) on
top of the beam.  Since this is inherently unstable there are two sets
of dual "training" wheels on the side of the concrete beam with a
narrow gauge spacing of less than the height of the beam which, design
dependent, is generally less than 30 inches.

In wet weather, the smooth elastomer wheels have poor traction on the
smooth, polished concrete "rail" top.  In freezing weather traction
requires sanding for any aceleration whehter braking or driving.

The suspension allows for no right-of-way trimming since the beams are
unalterable.  To make up for this invariance and their stone rigidity,
they must be overdimensioned prestressed beams that do not operate
near capacity or the concrete would spall.  The trains are not stable
at high speed because they are constrained to the beam that is never
perfectly joined even if it is in itself perfect.  The rail tracking
allows no vehicle suspension on springs as conventional RR is.  This
is why the Wuppertal line runs at a maximum speed of 50 kmh.

Sydney (Aus) recently built a substantial system that cannot exceed
35 mph in revenue service.  This is typical of such guided elastomer
wheeled trains.  Roller coasters run faster but then their goal is to
give a jostling ride.  I believe that there is where such rides belong.
I love the Wuppertal train for its simple and unique features.  It is
like the cable cars of SF, a wonderful, uneconomical device that will
most likely not serve widely anywhere else (except for the purpose of
being unusual).  I think both SF and Wuppertal recognize this element.
The other reasons for not building "monorail" have been discussed at
length.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: gjs@wdl50.wdl.loral.com (Gregory Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Foaming in Reston VA
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:20:01 GMT
Expires: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 07:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Distribution: usa
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

I will be spending most of the next seven weeks working in
Reston VA.  Can anyone suggest places to go and things to see
especially pictures to take before they are gone?

Last May, while working in Balitmore, I explored most of the
area north of WDC.  What should I explore in VA and maybe
North Carolina?

Please e-mail responses because I don't think I will be able to
get rec.railroads very often for the next couple of months.

Thanks
Greg Scott
gjs@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
"I ain't never had too much fun!" Tom Ball & Kenny Sultan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: debruler@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (dennis.l.debruler)
Subject: Copper Caynon
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:52:37 GMT

I'm posting the following on behalf of Frank Degges.

At the beginning of August, Sam Lewit was looking for information on 
Copper Canyon.  The September-October issue of National Geographic's
Traveler Magazine has a nice photo spread on it, along with address
information.  I hope this helps.  Sorry, I didn't mean to be so late
with the info.

Frank and d.l.debruler@att.att.com
-- 
Dennis L DeBruler		(708) 713-5182
D.L.DeBruler@att.com		att!iexist!dennis
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Texas TGV (was re: Pipe Dreams)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:14:31 GMT

In article <gDcTqB1w165w@1776.COM>, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
|> You forgot the [TGV] in Texas.  That's a pipe dream too.

Why is Texas TGV a pipe dream?  I thought it was still a "go"...
Does anyone have any up-to-date info or comments on this project?

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: v106qhlw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Poster Child Against Meal Plan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm not very well travelled and way to provincial, but i really like the
trip out to the Rockaways on NYC's 'A' and 'C'.  I tried it for the first 
time this summer (lived there all my life... typical) and was amazed that
such a magnificent bunch of scenery is within earshot (for us nyc natives)
of the Gowanus or Triborough or Coop City or whatever antithesis of bucolic
atmosphere you can find in the City.  

Even before you get to the water, the trip through Aqueduct and Howard Beach
is like a trip back in time.  The place looks like it could still be from the
50's, only a little worn down.  The streetsigns are still that 1960's white and
lt. blue that only queens people know about; people have boats moored to the
very fence along the tracks; the whole area (especially Broad Channel) seems
like a beach town that is hard to place mentally in NYC... but it was a surprise
that i sort have come to expect now in NYC.

The trip out over the water is awesome, too... broad vistas of Jamaica Bay for
the nature enthusiasts and clear view of JFK for those mystified (as i am) by
the built things here and how they co exist with natural things.  There is 
something environmental detrimental about having an international jet airport
thunder next to a nature preserve.  But there is something SO NEAT about 
having an international jet airport thunder next to a nature preserve... that
didn't come out right, i don't think.  Anyway, all this is available to you
for a couple hours and a token... not too shabby.

mark foggin
new yorker in exile
university at buffalo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Stations
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:57:22 GMT

In article <Hsi5qB2w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>BTW, another Northeast Corridor station that has been beautifully restored 
>is the one in New Haven.  And although the station at Providence was not 
>retained, its replacement is supposed to be a pretty good piece of archi-
>tecture.

As something of a Rhode Islander I can state from personal experience
that the new station is pretty nice.  It's just a train station, but
it's situated in a good location across from the State House and has
nice interior decor.  It's currently pretty tough to walk to with all
of the construction around it, but when that's finished it will be
quite convenient to what attractions downtown Providence has to offer.

While I don't know this for a fact, I have a _very_ strong impression
that the old train station has been converted to office space.  There
is a building which is obviously from the railroad architecture mold
located where I understand the old tracks used to go.  It was clearly
a nice station at one point, but it's easily 5 times larger than the
current one so I suspect that even if they hadn't moved the tracks (to
reconnect the two halves of downtown) they would have had to scale it
back dramatically.

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu
From: tom@drutx.ATT.COM (MaddenTC)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Three questions revisited
Keywords: K brakes, color change "date stamping"
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:18:05 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Denver

What goes around comes around. The thread from my original
"Three Questions" posting has focussed on question #1, and
reached the point where I can add some information, and do a bit
of expanding. (The questions are all of the "I know I've seen
that somewhere" type, but always as a secondary topic.)

> 1. What's the date when cars equipped with K brakes were no
> longer accepted for interchange?

Garth Groff's (ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU) answer of 1953 sounds
right, especially if the RAIL MODEL JOURNAL article he refers to
was written by Richard Hendrickson. Richard knows more about
steam-era freight cars than any other two humans. I've read
everything from "right after the war" to "mid-fifties", but
suspect that spanned everything from first proposal to the
final, anachronistic random sightings.

Steve Hooper (steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca) asks how K brakes
work. I'm sure someone on the net will post a detailed
description, but the not entirely flip answer is: pretty much
the same as AB brakes. Each system has (had?) an air reservoir,
pneumatic valve, and brake cylinder. In the AB, these are three
separate components; they're all bundled as a single unit in the
K. (Except for the KD [or is it KC?], where the reservoir/valve
is separate from the cylinder, making two components.) As I
understand it, the valve responds to pressure changes in the
train line to set or release the brakes. Should the train line
break and the pressure drop to zero, the reservoir provides a
source of air to set the brakes and stop the car.

If this is correct, then a better question is "why is the AB
superior to the K?". Is the AB's triple valve more reliable or
sensitive than the K's valve? Is the AB's cylinder double-acting
and the K's single-acting? Does the AB respond more quickly? I
assume it was a reliability issue, because the K looks like it
should have been cheaper and easier to maintain. Comments?

> 2. When did the stripe colors on crossing gate arms go from
> black/white to the current red/white?
>
> 3. Not strictly RR, but related to #2: when did highway stop
> signs go from yellow with black lettering to the current red
> with white lettering?

Modelers might be able to answer these, as they are "layout
era"-type questions, but I can't access rec.model.railroad. I'm
sure these were from the fifties, and #3 was certainly part of
the great homogenization of USA highway signage that accompanied
the interstate highway system. (It cost us such gems as New
Jersey's charming "SQUEEZE AHEAD" yield signs, and the teen-age
knee-slapper "NOTOVER 35 MILES".)  I think #2 might have been
separate from this, but that's based only on very vague
recollections.

Tom C. Madden 
____________________________________________________________________ 
Thomas C. Madden  tom@drutx.att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories  Denver                                                  
These are my opinions only!!
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: SG&I...what is it?
Date: 13 Sep 1992 01:38:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


   The CMStP&P 0-6-0 1416 on display at Evansville, IN mentioned in Wes Barris'
_List of surviving US steam locomotives_ is not lettered for Milwaukee, but 
instead as "SG&I"  #12.  Does anybody know what the initials SG&I stand for,
or is it a fictitious road the city thought up?  (This isn't as unlikely as
it sounds...ATSF 2-8-0 2546 on display at Marceline, MO, Walt Disney's boyhood
home, is lettered for the "Santa Fe and Disneyland Railroad."  Ack!)

-- 
  o__II_---__---_---__I~~|~________________ ,------[~~]------, ,-----[~~]-----,
 __|_______||_________|__|_|   Santa Fe   | |  Evan Werkema  | |              |
/ o~~O--O--O~~O--O--O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~o--o~
----------- ^-Flexible-boiler! ---------------elw4@po.cwru.edu-----------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
Subject: Amtrak Cleveland Service
Summary: A bounced e-mail message...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: oh
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:00:32 GMT

What follows is a bounced e-mail message.  I seem to have deleted the 
originators address, so I will just post it here for you Cleveland area fans, 
and hopefully the guy who asked will see it ( I believe he was at Cleveland 
State U.)


Sorry for the delay, but I was out of town.  You asked if the Amtrak report had
any info on other Cleveland area service.  The answer is no.  The only thing
that was mentioned in the report is extension of the Lake Shore Limited to
Cincinnati.  I wouldn't count on even this being implemented for another couple
of years.  There was not even any talk of "corridor" service on the 3-C
corridor.  One round trip a day is hardly a "corridor".  If you want details on
the extension, let me know.

As far as the extension of the Pennsylvanian to Cleveland is concerned, it
wasn't in the report, but I believe it was studied a few years ago.  It's been
talked about for a while, but last I heard Conrail had to do some signal work
near Cleveland before it could be implemented.  I'm from Pittsburgh, and we've
heard about this possible extension for years, but I'm not holding my breath
with all of these budget problems (Ohio, PA, and the national budget).  The
Pennsylvanian is a PA-subsidized train, so perhaps that could get Ohio to pay
for part of the extension to Cleveland.

If you want more details on the Lake shore extension, just drop me a line.

Later

--
*******************************************************************************
John Marshall, III                           jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
            Pittsburgh Penguins - Stanley Cup Champions - 1991, 1992
                 "It's a great day for hockey." - Bob Johnson
                "Scratch my back with a hacksaw!" - Mike Lange
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: wdjohnso@iastate.edu (Whitney D Johnson)
Subject: Re: Santa Fe #3751
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:22:50 GMT
From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: need train song recommendations
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:29:30 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: Bugs-R-Us


`Coronation Scot', of course.

-- Ken "daaaa, du-daaaa, du-du-du-du-du-daaaa,
   du-daa-daa-daa-du-daa-daa-daa-daa DAAAA" Johnson


-- 
//// Advice to dieters:         ////  Ken Johnson, A I Applications Institute
////   Never eat more than      ////       80 South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN
////   you can carry.           ////                 E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk
////              -- Miss Piggy ////     phone 031-650 2756  fax 031-650 6513
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: mboucher@cortex.prospect.com (Mike Boucher)
Subject: Re: rail grinder in ames
Organization: Cortex Corporation, Waltham, MA, USA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:37:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: cortex.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hey there,

I just heard today that the rail grinder working "around Boston", as said in an
earlier post, is parked at "Hall yard" in Haverhill.  This is where the MBTA
USED to park their trains at night.  It is NORTH of the river, NOT in Bradford.
I haven't verified but I'm going to check it out tomorrow.  My source said it's
working it's way southbound.

Mike.

PS - A few years back I caught a Speno grinder working this same area, at about
1:30 in the AM.  **WHAT A SIGHT!!**  Tried taking pics, but they didn't come out
too well.  See a lot of sparks, trucks, and black.  Oh well, next time I'll
bring the tripod which I hadn't bought at that time!

-- 
Mike Boucher			mboucher@cortex.prospect.com
Cortex Corp			"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never
Waltham, MA, USA		 get out of it alive!"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Highlights from the first episode of "Tracks Ahead"
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 04:02:00 GMT


After seeing a preview showing of the first episode of the new "Tracks
Ahead" series, here is what will be featured in that episode:
 
Episode 201 (the first one)
Prototype: Lake Superior & Ishpemming Railroad ore operations.
Model: The S scale American Flyer layout of Ron Schlicht of
Greenfield, Wis.
Personality: Country music singer Box Car Willie
Special: The Swiss Transport Museum in Lucern, Switzerland.
Rail Minute: Alexander Mitchell
 
I should have the highlights from all 13 episodes typed into my Mac
soon, and will post them then if anybody is interested. I should note
that this information is from the "Tracks Ahead" press kit.
 Joe R.
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: rail grinder in ames
Date: 5 Sep 92 21:49:36 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Evan L. Werkema writes:
> 
>    Last May, I saw a Jackson-Jordan railgrinder working just west of the
> Downer's Grove, IL station on the BN Chicago-Aurora line.  It was just one
> car/engine, and looked a little like a souped up GE 1974-line switcher.  It
> seemed to be running back and forth over one 500ft section of track, and
> nowhere else.  What would be the purpose of an operation like this?
> Smoothing
> out a localized irregularity?
> 


Those little guys are for grinding backtrack switches and smaller jobs.  They
usually work two or three together under one TOP.

--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's
From: R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Updated timetables
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:54:04 GMT
 <gq2oqB1w164w@railnet.nshore.ORG>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <gq2oqB1w164w@railnet.nshore.ORG>
eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel) writes:

> I have found that the time to look for the timetables, if you don't want to 
> get too picky, is the time around the Daylight to Standard and vice=versa 
> times of the year, when new tables are issued.  Employees are very generous 
> with their old tables, if you ask, otherwise they are discarded.

Good point. However, on railroads that issue timetables in loose-leaf
form, all that gets replaced are the pages that need changing. 
Complete information is much harder to come by. 

To suggest other methods, I have sometimes resorted to trashcan
salvage, and once in a while hiking near the track, have found
someone's timetable (or pages) that have blown out the cab window. 
Usually damp and dirty, but salvagable if the bugs haven't eaten up the
paper too much.  Again, this can be treated as trespassing and theft
(even the garbage) if railroad officials want to raise the issue.

Todd Minsk, ferro-bibliographer
From: gemmellj@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Amtrack seat assignments
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:35:57 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

Hi. I'm just wondering why Amtrack does not give seat assignments on the
reserved trains.  it sure will be a lot easier to get on board knowing
where there is a seat waiting for you.  On all the times i took Amtrack,
it seemed like a zoo when everyone was racing to grap a seat, preferably
by a window.  
Does anyone know why Amtrack does not give assignments?
From: sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Vancouver to Seattle by Amtrak
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:22:49 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Sep2.204437.15758@unixg.ubc.ca>, banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai
Banarji) writes:
>               Vancouver-Seattle by Amtrak
>
>       So it appears that this is another new Amtrak service which we may 
>in a year or so. I know that Amtrak used to run on this route in the 1970s.
>Does anyone have a timetable of this route? Just curious to know the stops.
>I suppose Bellingham would be one.
>       We can expect a lot of Vancouverites going cross-border shopping 
>on this train.

I'm kind of surprised that Amtrak would consider this route unless they know
something I don't (and by no means am I an expert on this).

I've taken Amtrak to Seattle 2 different times of the year to get to Vancouver
and back. On those 4 trips, I'd say the cumulative number of passengers
including myself was 15 people. One of the trips it was just me and some other
guy on the entire bus.

Like I said, I'm no expert. I don't live in the area, and may have just taken 4
unpopular travel times, but if not, this route is destined to be a loser. And
unless they have more than one train a day, I can't imagine many people would
alter their travel plans around a single daily train when they can take a bus
just about any time they like.

Sam Lewit                 | sam@terapin.com
2550 Shattuck #73         | "We shouldn't be blindly opposed to all progress.
Berkeley, Ca. 94704       | But we should be opposed to blind progress"
Internet: sam@terapin.com | 510-486-1422 24HR BBS Newsfeeds Free
Newsgroups: rec.collecting
From: rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez)
Subject: Re: CARDS: Discussion of UD football
Keywords: eat more moose
Organization: The Hosequarium South
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:54:26 GMT

Yes, I am follow-uping my own post.  

More comments on Upper Deck...

Upper Deck now says its cards are "holographically enhanced."
If you don't know what that means, look at Doc Gooden's 92 card,
or most anything from the FB set.  I guess this gives eye popping
color, but it looks, uh, weird.  Like ghostly.  Like surreal.
Especially when they enhance skin, they no longer look like 
pictures.  I liked UD because their pictures were so good,
both in theme and quality.  This enhancement process is not
cool, IMO, at all.

Anyone else notice this, or is it just me?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Robert E. L\'{o}pez       |       Internet:
Texas LoanSTAR Program    |       rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu
The Hosequarium South     |       rlopez@cs.tamu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
                 Texas A&M University 
                   boohoo.onyou.edu
----------------------------------------------------------