From: 72627.2647@compuserve.com (Don HARLOW)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: Interlingua
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:38:59 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

To: Esperanto >INTERNET:esperanto@rand.org

Dato: 920820

Nice to see somebody discussing this interlanguage which 
was the _bete noir_ of American Esperantists at the time I 
learned the language but which has since all but disappeared, 
to make way for a whole new crop of aspiring supplanters of 
Esperanto. For those who are really interested in Interlingua, its 
structure and the philosophy behind it, I recommend Edo 
Bernasconi's "Esperanto aux Interlingua?" which was published 
by the Kultura Centro Esperantista in Switzerland in 1977 or 1978. 
This also includes some interesting points on the history of Esperanto, 
in answer to some common (mis)representations by European 
Interlingua adherents.

Most of what Paul Denisowski said has already been answered been 
answered by others. One comment that deserves a reply:

>Contrary
>to the beliefs held by many (most) Esperantists, it is NOT a
>particularly easy language to master, and (as witnessed at the last ELNA
>convention) is not spoken well even by some of its biggest supporters.

According to the official list of those who signed up for the ELNA 
Congress in Raleigh, 1991 (which is what Paul is probably referring 
to), he was a participant; however I spoke to two of "[Esperanto's] 
biggest supporters" (the president of ELNA and the vice-director of 
its Central Office), both of whom were at Raleigh and both of whom 
speak Esperanto that ranges from good to excellent, and neither of 
them remembers speaking with him or even meeting him; so perhaps 
he just talked with the wrong person.

Tord Malmgren writes:

> just for information, I was informed that "Universala Esperanto Asocio"
>has a very high membership cost thus exluding some people who can't afford
>it, and if that isn't "exclusive"

Several people have already pointed out to Tord that being an 
Esperantist is not identical with being a member of the Universala 
Esperanto-Asocio. Others have mentioned its sliding scale of dues 
and its discounts to young people. I feel the need to make a couple 
of comments and corrections here, since it is probably my (off-line) 
comment that Tord is quoting.

UEA does indeed have a sliding dues scale, as much of one as its 
finances permit. To use a case with which I am personally familiar, 
a Chinese Esperantist only has to pay half as much as an American 
or Swedish Esperantist to join UEA. Regrettably, this does not help 
Chinese Esperantists much for two reasons:

(1) An American Esperantist, selling hamburgers over the counter 
at McDonald's for minimum wage, will earn enough to pay his 
annual UEA membership in two days. A Chinese Esperantist, 
who happens to be a highly-paid (by Chinese standards) professional, 
will earn enough to pay _his_ lower UEA dues in _two weeks_. The 
amount he earns in two days will not be enough to pay the postage on 
the magazines that UEA sends him monthly, much less the cost of the 
magazines, the Jarlibro, and any other materials that UEA may ship 
him. This is a problem that is largely unique to the Esperanto movement 
only because the Esperanto movement is largely unique in being global 
in scope. If an Interlingua movement, for instance, were ever to become 
global, it would face _exactly_ this same problem. Fortunately, as far as 
I can tell Interlingua has few adherents left in the affluent world, and none 
in the poorer countries.

(2) Some people in China (and other non-affluent countries) will, of 
course, earn enough money, or be dedicated enough, to be willing to 
pay UEA dues, no matter how high. Unfortunately, in most such 
countries -- partly due to decisions of their own governments and 
partly due to decisions made in the affluent West almost half a 
century ago, at Bretton Wood and other places -- they have no access 
to funds that can be used to pay such dues; only governments or large 
corporations have access to those funds (hard currency is the usual term). 
This, too, is a problem that is global in nature and noticed in the Esperanto 
movement only because the Esperanto movement, too, is global. There is 
no English term that I know of for the common Esperanto word 
"nepagipova".

Someone pointed out that UEA has a foundation for paying 
memberships for people outside the affluent world. I would like 
to remind my fellow Esperantists on the net of this fact, and also 
point out that membership in UEA would be a good year-end gift 
for your favorite correspondent in such countries (and it won't cost 
as much as your own, either).

UEA has no discount for younger members, as someone suggested. 
Younger members do, however, get more services without extra cost 
than do we old fogies; specifically, they receive six issues of "Kontakto" 
and six issues of "TEJO Tutmonde" every year, for which those of us 
beyond 30 must pay extra.

Again, "exclusivity" in UEA exists, but only because of forces over 
which we Esperantists have no control. These are forces to which an 
Interlingua movement would also not be immune -- but there is no 
Interlingua movement to speak of, so the question never arises.

Edmund Grimley Evans says:

>Somewhere (Don HARLOW can probably remember where) there was published
>a letter from Gode in which he explained very clearly the important
>difference between Esperanto and Interlingua.

Try Auld, William, "Enkonduko en la originalan literaturon de 
Esperanto", which was published by Iltis in 1980, if I'm not mistaken. 
The letter was one Gode sent to Auld and in which he explained that 
he himself didn't even believe in the idea of an international auxiliary 
language as Esperantists understand it; Interlingua was only intended 
to be a "standard average European" vocabulary or some such thing 
(then why was he taking a salary from the International Auxiliary 
Language Association?). Gode wrote that he referred to proponents of 
Interlingua as a world language as "Esperantists" because their world-
view was more similar to that of the Esperantists than it was to his own.

(Estas malfacile skribi cxi tion, cxar en la nuna momento mi rigardas 
la iom stultan kaj fantastan kandidatigxan paroladon de George "Legu 
Mian Busxon" Bush. La entuziasmo de la spektantaro sxajnas esti ne 
eksterordinara -- kelkaj ecx sxajnas dormi.)

=============================================
Don HARLOW                                Redaktoro Esperanto U.S.A.
tel. (1 510) 222 0187
CompuServe [72627,2647]
Internet 72627.2647@compuserve.com

"To discipline Esperantists is to eat soup with chopsticks."
                                                          Confucius
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