HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Followup-To: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:41:06 GMT

[Note: followup has t.p.g. removed]

In article <1992Dec17.215323.1154@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com
(David Sternlight) writes:

> PGP 1.0 was a violation of the RSA patents.

Are you sure about this?  I thought it was *ALLEGED* to be in violation
of RSA patents, but never proven...  There *is* a difference.

> Consider it having a label
> called "fruits of a violation". That label isn't removed simply
> because it passes over some wires to Europe.  Note carefully: a copy
> of PGP 1.0 brought to Europe from the U.S. is NOT ethically equivalent
> to a PGP 1.0 programmed from scratch in Europe.

The easiest thing to do (as someone else suggested), is to write a
generic front end with hooks for your favorite encryption function.
The front end could be distributed freely, as it contains no encryption
technology.  Everybody will be left to their own devices to obtain/write
their own function.

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: s0rah@exnet.co.uk (R A Hollands)
Subject: Re: PGP v. 2.1 Released
Keywords: pgp uuencode unzip
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:23:26 GMT

Thanks to all those who replied about my problem getting an uncorrupted
version of PGP 2.1.

What I did finally:

 1 got uuencoded file in five parts;
 2 joined them: cat aa ab ac ad ae >pgp.uue;
 3 edited out the mail headers;
 4 uudecode pgp.uue;
 5 downloaded it; (set fil typ bin - Yeah!)
 6 unzipped it.

What I did before:

 2-4 replaced by:
 - edit out headers;
 - cat aa ab ac ad ae | uudecode.

Is this different?  I don't get it.

Perhaps all you old usenet/unix hands are clanking your zimmers and
rattling your cocoa mugs and saying, "He! he! see what he did!".  If so,
I'd like to share the joke.

Thanks again for the prompt responses.

Richard

~A

Xref: sparky alt.security:5145 sci.crypt:5868
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:59:57 GMT
 <1992Dec17.161719.18422@shearson.com> <1992Dec17.215323.1154@netcom.com>
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.

In <1992Dec17.215323.1154@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:


>PGP 1.0 was a violation of the RSA patents. Consider it having a label
>called "fruits of a violation". That label isn't removed simply
>because it passes over some wires to Europe.  Note carefully: a copy
>of PGP 1.0 brought to Europe from the U.S. is NOT ethically equivalent
>to a PGP 1.0 programmed from scratch in Europe.

(1) Repeat after me.  There is no such thing as a violation of a patent. 
People can infringe a patent.

(2) It seems the same to me.  You have to remember that PGP itself cannot
infringe on a patent, even in the US.  Only use of it can infringe, and the
use also would have to be in the US.  The question still remains, did PGP
1.0 have code derived from RSA code not appearing in the patent.

--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
My interaction with our news system is unstable; please mail anything important.
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: cons@mercury.cern.ch (Lionel Cons)
Subject: SNMP security problems ?
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for Particle Physics
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:47:10 GMT

I've heard about enhancements of the basic SNMP protocol, so: are
there any security problems when you use SNMP ?
--

Lionel Cons

+------- CERN - European Laboratory for Particle Physics -------+
| E-mail: cons@dxcern.cern.ch                                   |
| Earth-mail: CN/SW/WS, CERN, CH-1211 GENEVE 23, Switzerland    |
| Phone: +41 22 767 49 13              Fax: +41 22 767 71 55    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: d89-jco@nada.kth.se (Jan-Christer Olsson)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Magnetic Keycards
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:22:31 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

Looking into the problems with automated identification with magnetic keycards,
 I have found it to be a real problem finding proper documentation.

I wonder if anyone out there on the net can recomend any litterature on 
the standards(preferable European, but not necessary)for 
en-/decoding-techniques of this particular magnetic media.

Please post an answer to this newsgroup.
	
	Jan-Christer Olsson d89-jco@nada.kth.se
      ____________________________________________________________________           | KKK   KKK  ii   PPPPPPP	       NNN    NNNN  |Jan-Christer Olsson|
      |	 KK  KK   	PP    PP eeee	NNNNN   NN   |KiPeN="The Keeper" |
      |	 KKKK	   ii	PPPPPPP e eeee  NN  NN  NN   |Studentv.32:324    |
      |	 KK  KK    ii   PP      e       NN   NN NN   |752 34 Uppsala     |
      |	 KK   KKK  ii   PP	 eeee  NNNN   NNNN   |018-50 56 21       |
       -------------------------------------------------------------------
To Baldly Go Where No Man Have Been Bald Before!!!
Newsgroups: alt.security,alt.security.pgp,sci.crypt
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:32:35 GMT

amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:

> PGP is a worldwide standard?  Funny, I keep reasonable track of ISO/JTC1 
> activities, and I haven't noticed so much as a PGP working group, much less a 
> standardization effort...

There is no such things about Turbo Pascal either, yet it is a de
facto standard worldwide.

> Widespread use does not a standard make.

Yes, it does, it is called a "de facto standard". If it is widespread
(and PGP 2.x gets more and more widespread with every day), somebody
will make it an official standard sooner or later. It happend to Unix
and C, so it may happen to PGP too...

> PGP is simply the winner of the current popularity contest.

Yup. But the original poster was saying that

> > If *you* have a problem with the worldwide standard (PGP) because of 
> > *your* stupid laws, it is up to *you* to do the work to get around that 
> > problem. 

You see? The main problem is that the USA citizens have problems with
using a widely available good public-key encryption software, it is
-their- problem and it is up to them to do something about it, so they
should stop making noise on the net about it. The universe does not
consist of the USA alone. We have enough problems with -our- stupid
laws and definitively do not want to worry about the stupid laws in
the USA. We do have a good public-key encryption program. It is called
PGP and we will use it. It is perfectly legal to do so here. If you
think that it is not legal for you to use it - too bad for you, but it
is your problem, not ours...

BTW, rumors are that the export-restricted RSAREF is freely available
for download from some BBSes in Bulgaria... :-)

Regards,
Vesselin
-- 
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.1 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
Xref: sparky alt.security:5165 sci.crypt:5907
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt
Subject: Re: PGP v. 2.1 Released
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:48:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Marc VanHeyningen posts an otherwise sensible message in which he
characterizes the protections ripem sites will have as "CYA games."
This constitutes both mind reading and the imputation of motives,
neither of which can, I think, be supported.

David
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PGP v. 2.1 Released
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:47:36 GMT

In article <19921214.055706.262@almaden.ibm.com> russotto@vnet.ibm.com (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:

>
>Who's to say RIPEM's legality won't be debated too?  As I recall, PKP
>claims a patent broad enough to stop ANY public key scheme-- they claim
>to have the use of arithmetic in a public key scheme patented....

ripem uses an RSA-licensed version of RSAREF. The license is very liberal
as long as ripem is used for private, non-commercial purposes.

In their correspondence with me and others, RSA is encouraging use
of ripem for people who wish a private, non-commercial privacy-enhanced
mail system, as well as any other system that uses RSAREF under license.

ripem will be out very soon--my personal guess is by year-end, though
I don't speak for the programmer.

These remarks apply to the U.S. and Canada. ripem, since it uses RSA
and DES, will come under the same export controls that RSA and DES
do.

David
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: Is PGP legal outside the US?
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:50:23 GMT

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Perry Metzger makes the same ethical error many others have, of
>looking at PGP2.0 in Europe in isolation. Both ethics and
>the law don't do that--they look at the causal chain. There's
>a well established principle about the fruits of a crime. The
>law often confiscates the money gained, for example, from
>insider trading.

What you are invoking is the so called "fruit of the poison tree"
doctrine. I'm familiar with it. It doesn't apply. As an example, the
book "Spycatcher" is banned in Great Britain, where it was WRITTEN,
but is perfectly legal here in the US and is in fact published. You
don't have a leg to stand on.

To focus us back, Mr. Sternlight contends that PGP is illegal in
Europe because it was written illegally in the US. Lets go forward.

>PGP 1.0 was a violation of the RSA patents. Consider it having a label
>called "fruits of a violation". That label isn't removed simply
>because it passes over some wires to Europe.  Note carefully: a copy
>of PGP 1.0 brought to Europe from the U.S. is NOT ethically equivalent
>to a PGP 1.0 programmed from scratch in Europe.

Are we arguing ethics or law here? Legally, there is no problem in
principle. U.S. patent law does not apply, and since the international
agreements concerning copyrights don't apply since there was no
copyright violation, there is legally no problem, just as "Spycatcher"
could be published in the U.S. perfectly legally even if it did
violate the Official Secrets Act in the U.K. Now, on the issue of
ethics, you are conflating law with ethics. Just because something is
illegal in the US doesn't make it unethical. Are you, for instance,
going to argue that a heterosexual couple engaged in oral sex is
immoral? Its illegal in a large fraction of the states in the Union.
It is also, in my opinion, perfectly ethical if consentual. Here we
have an instance where in places like Georgia an act would be illegal
although in certain people's opinion perfectly ethical. All you can
give as an ethical argument is the notion that PGP is illegal in the
US and thus it is unethical to use it in Europe. That seems like a
very weak argument -- ethics are subjective things.

>I would agree completely that a programmed-from-scratch implementation
>of RSA in a country where they don't have patent protection is
>perfectly legal and ethical. I would not agree that a copy tranported
>from the U.S., where it is not legitimate, somehow is washed clean in
>the blood of the lamb (have I got the metaphor right?) as it arrives
>at the other end of the phone line.

Legally, its perfectly fine. Ethics is a matter for dispute -- we will
never necessarily agree there. However, it seems that since you derive
your ethics from the law rather than personal principle, they are
fairly weak in their basis.

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com
--
"They can have my RSA key when they pry it from my cold dead fingers."
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Organization: Immortal Freedom's Deck
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 10:27:32 GMT

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>(I specifically exempt from the above those, with whom I disagree,
>whose consistent position is against any invention protection
>and who think all software and cryptography ought to be both
>universally available and free. I understand that position,
>but think it both ethically wrong and practically unrealistic.)

You are lumping two different groups of people.  The GNU people
think that software should be free.  I merely believe that patents
are unethical, but have no problem with charging for software.
Basically, I believe that all transactions should be voluntary.
Patents don't fit this position.
- --
	Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.com>  | NeXTmail/mime ok
		       <miron@cs.sfu.ca>	    | Public key avail
	AMIX: MCuperman				    |
cybercomputingimmortallaissezfaire		    |

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Xref: sparky alt.devilbunnies:17 alt.noise:48 alt.rock-n-roll:19531 alt.rock-n-roll.metal:12330
From: xorcist@cyberden.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.devilbunnies,alt.noise,alt.rock-n-roll,alt.rock-n-roll.metal
Subject: House Of Usher - Dec 22 - Ministry Pre-Party
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 10:14:31 PST
Organization: Indescribable Creations

                            Every Tuesday night

                               HOUSE OF USHER

                                 18 and over
                             Hours are 9pm - 3am
                          $3 before 10pm - $5 after

                         DJ's- Bat, Mr. Meanor and X
                        Bad Trip videos by Corruption

     1 Bolivar Drive - Aquatic Park - Berkeley  --  INFO (415) 995-4969

Offering the best in both Gothic and Industrial music with two seperate rooms,

:  DEC. 22nd-MINISTRY PRE-PARTY
             Ministry giveaways to the first 30 people through
             the door plus other giveaways throughout the night.
             CD's, Posters, 12" singles, Videos!, Plus a rare
             quart of Jesus Built My Hot-Rod motor Oil!

       At 2:30am 2 tickets to the Dec 23rd show will also be given away!

To get there, use the same route you would to get to Hwy 80 as if you were
going to the Berkeley campus. (University Drive). Exit University Drive and
head towards the campus. (Away from the water.) The first light will be
6th street. Make a RIGHT on 6th street and continue to the next block which
will be ADDISON. Make another RIGHT on ADDISON and follow it all the way down
till it ends at a T in front of a lake. Make a RIGHT and follow that small
500 foot road into the House Of Usher parking lot.

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ xorcist@cyberden.uucp ]
From: cstringe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Chuck Stringer)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Poppy Z. Brite
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:15:44 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, University Computing Services

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
| Thorin Nielson asks about Brite's _Lost_Souls_, the first hardback in
| the Dell Abyss series.  I recommend T. Liam McDonald's review of this
| book, which can be found in the Fall '92 issue of _Cemetery_Dance_.
| It would be a good excuse to check out _CD_, an excellent magazine
| for horror devotees.  I posted the _CD_ subscription info not long
| ago (because the same issue contains Stephen King's new "Chattery
| Teeth") but if you need it again, just holler.

I would greatly appreciate it.


----
Chuck Stringer
E-mail cstringe@ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: mch@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson)
Subject: Re: The Other Short Story Title
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:51:25 GMT

In article <1gb20vINNjnt@agate.berkeley.edu> davidb@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (David T. Blackston) writes:
>Hi All,
>also in Wagner's collection "In a Lonely Place".  The Wagner anthology is 
>truly excellent, but might be difficult to find as it is out of print.

Powell's books in Portland, OR has a copy of the Scream Press hardcover
edition. I think the price was US$45. They do mail order, of course.

Mark
-- 
Mark Henderson, SoftQuad Inc, 108-10070 King George Hwy, Surrey, B.C. V3T 2W4
Internet:  markh@wimsey.bc.ca, mch@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca, mch@holonet.net
UUCP: {van-bc,sq}!sqwest!mch Telephone: +1 604 585 8394  Fax: +1 604 585 1926
RIPEM public key available by Email/finger mch@holonet.net/keyserver
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: T.E.D Klein
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:19:38 GMT

Richard B. writes:
>Not to advance or argue the point, but I thought you might like to 
>know that to the best of my recollection, T.E.D. Klein is actually
>a collaborative pen name for two real-life authors.

Gee, that's an odd one.  If he *is* two people, and not one, then
he did a great job of appearing to be the defunct _Twilight_Zone_'s
sole editor, he takes great pictures as just one person, and he
really pulled the wool over the eyes over all the people who've
interviewed him, such as Douglas E. Winter in _Faces_of_Fear_.
Winter's interview has a description of where in NYC they met
to talk, a biography of Klein, multiple quotations, etc., etc.

Hell, I could be wrong, but I even think I saw Klein on TV once.
His face is one of the most familiar in all of horror literature--
something about that five o'clock shadow he always sports, those
haunted black eyes of his, and the neat-looking septagonal specs...

Besides...is it really plausible that *two* people could be *that*
enamored of Machen--and better yet, that two Machenophiles could
stand each other well enough to write books together? :-) :-)

							--Fiona W.
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Poppy Z. Brite
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:58:09 GMT

Here's the info on _CD_:

_Cemetery_Dance_
P.O. Box 18433, Baltimore, MD 21237

$15- for one year (4 issues)
$25- for two years (8 issues)
$40- for three years (12 issues)

That may seem steep for 4 issues a year, but it's not.  This is
a thick (100+ pp.) professionally-produced magazine, with multiple
big-name reviewers of everything from literary-quality horror to
silly trash movies.  It's full-size (10" x 12", I think),
always has a full-color cover, and gets mailed to you in an envelope
so your copies are mint-perfect.

Think about it this way: for the $18- you would have spent on
Poppy Brite's _Lost_Souls_, you can get 4 issues of _CD_ and
$3- to spare, and then *still* pick up _Lost_Souls_, as a
brand-new hardback, with maybe a signature even, for about $5-10
at most, from one of the outlets like Dreamhaven in Minneapolis. :-)

 							--Fiona
From: pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: BOB-to Eric the Super Annoying
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 05:07:06 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: darkpark

ntraven@wuntvor.pillar.com (The Night Raven) writes:

> Actually, having lived overseas, here's the real story on the Books of Blood:
> 
>      The books of blood were published paperback originally in England by
> Sphere books.  Six volumes (BOB I-VI) were published with original cover art 
> Clive Barker.
>      When the books came to America, the publishers wouldn't print them with
> the original illustrations (too graphic, they said), and did the whole thing
> with the masks on the first three.  The last three books were published as In
> the Flesh, The Inhuman Condition, and Cabal (containing the novella Cabal, an
> excluding "The Book of Blood-postscipt which is in the Omnibus Books of Blood
> containing books 1-3)
>      If you can get your hands on the British editions of the books, they
> really are much better and have great art, and book six has the Book of Blood
> postscipt.  The American editions kind of bowlderized them, but oh well.  As
> long as the stories are still there.
> 
> (catch Tapping the Vein, comic adaptations of the Books of Blood)
> 
> *****************************************************************************
> 
>   "If God did not exist          "Do you know what a love letter is?"
>    it would be necessary                 -Dennis Hopper  "Blue Velvet"
>    to invent him."               "There is no delight the equal of dread" 
>           -George B. Shaw                -Clive Barker
> 
> phluuke@maria.wustl.edu                 ntraven@here
> *****************************************************************************


 The British versions are commonly available in Canada.

marlowe

------------------------------------------------------------------darkpark BBS
pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: werewolf@cwis.unomaha.edu (Eric E. Buckner)
Subject: Re: BOB-to Eric the Super Annoying
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:55:14 GMT

Well, at least I wasn't too far off.  The originals available in Canada?
Does anybody know of a good mail-order place where I could order these?  I live
in Nebraska (in the middle of the US) so a trip to the Great White North is 
basically out of the question.

It was unclear to me if the stories were edited or not...I am only interested 
in the quality of Mr. Barker's writing, not the covers of his books.

Thank you.

Eric the Super Annoying
-- 

Xref: sparky alt.horror:5369 rec.arts.movies:35698
From: pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Why do people hate Culkin?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 02:08:35 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: darkpark

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

> Yeh, and on a similar note, what does Culkin have to do with horror?
> (...other than a minor role in "Jacob's Ladder," that is.)
> 
> 							--Fiona  <sigh>


 Hey, Culkin IS horror.

marlowe, who was terrified of ALL kids for weeks after seeing 'Home 
Alone'

------------------------------------------------------------------darkpark BBS
pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies