From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.culture
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Keywords: religion hyproctite rubbish
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:36:49 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Summit NJ

Donald R. Newcomb writes:
>Jeff Edelheit writes:
>>Todd Stevens writes:

>>>I have a responsibility to share Jesus Christ with the world....

>>Todd - You are just showing how much of a hypocrite you are.  You are
>>suggesting that anyone who does not agree with your view holds a false
>>belief.  That is outright rubbish!!!
>>
>>From my perspective, you DO NOT have a responsibility to share Jesus
>>with me or anyone else.  You HAVE a responsiblity to let me practice
>>my religion as I wish, without any interference or proseltizing....

>I have reread this posting several times and I wonder if the poster
>would be so quick to condemn religious intolerance and bigotry on the
>part of his coreligionists or in a country where his is the dominant
>religion? Has he spoken out about laws in some countries that made
>it a crime to raise crops that do not conform the dominant religion's
>arcane dietary laws? Has he spoken out to condemn gangs that roam
>the streets building barriers to prevent anyone from driving on their
>day of religion-enforced non-work? Would he be so quick to condemn
>a Scout Leader from that country who expressed concern that a Scout
>was bringing "unacceptable" food on camp-outs? Perhaps arrows like
>"rubbish", "hypocrite" should be put back in the quiver and saved
>for a target a little closer to one's religious home. From someone
>who claims to have Scouting's interests at heart, IMHO, the above
>was a very unscoutlike argumentation.

It is unfortunate that such anti-Semitic dribble, right away, has
to be introduced into a discussion of a Christian fundamentalist's
problem in dealing with non-Christian Scouting religious awards.

The issue being discussed had absolutely nothing to do with the
laws of kashrut or the driving through Orthodox neighborhoods in
Jerusalem, so why even bring them up?  What does a "secular Jew"
driving through as Orthodox neighborhood have to do with a 
Den Leader who doesn't feel right, to the point of refusing,
in assisting or encouraging a Cub Scout earning a non-Christianity
religious award?

First of all, when comparing the U.S.A. and Israel, remember that
Judaism is the national religion of Israel, and civil laws and
celebrations will be based accordingly; in the U.S.A., while
a majority of Americans observe some form of Christianity, it
is NOT the national religion.  Thus condemning Israel for andy
restricting of the breeding of pigs is totally meaningless in
a discussion about the Boy Scouts of America or the U.S.A. (unless
it's to squeeze in some anti-Semitic agenda).

Now, the target of the religious Jews are primarily other Jews
driving through their neighborhood (and thus people who are
violating the observance of their own Sabbath); the targets
are not Christians or Moslems.  As far as prohibited food
(known as "treif" food on s.c.j.), such a rule would be clearly
known to all Troop members, and would be a part of religious
tolerance (specifically, Jewish boys who are members of a BSA
unit are allowed to keep the dietary laws while participating
in Scouting events).  There are many Scout units chartered to
religious organizations, and where a religious observance or
commandment affects what is done, the unit has every right to
define its activities in accordance with the chartering unit's
religion.  Limiting food to that defined as "kosher" is not
forcing anybody's belief on anybody; the line would not be
crossed unless non-Jewish boys were forced to participate in
before and after-meal prayers or forced to attend the
three-times-a-day religious services.  I assure you, the
refusal of a synagogue or Jewish day school Troop to allow
a boy to have bacon for breakfast is much, much, less of a
problem or issue than is the Patrol or Troop sponsored by a
church or secular organization that DOESN'T allow a Jewish
Scout to avoid those foods.

Please stop looking for any openings just to post anti-Semitic
rantings and ravings.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting