HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Asian Angst
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:26:35 GMT

In article 0@swri.edu, lkim@swri.edu (Louis Kim) writes:
>|I'm disturbed the recent increased frequency of discussions on inter-racial 
>|relationships.  All this attention paid to the subject reveals a 
>|embarrasing amount of angst about our own self-image as 'attractive' 
>|people.  Some discussions on this topic are enlightening and helpful; but 
>|there comes a point where we should stop trying analyze who were dating, 
>|why we were dating who were dating, and why we can't date who we want to 
>|date.  Let's forget about the percentages and find the best person for us, 
>|regardless of race.
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|| Louis J. Kim                      ---  _ O                PH:512-522-5556 |
>|| Southwest Research Institute    ---  ,/  |\/'            FAX:512-522-3042 |
>|| Post Office Drawer 28510      ----      |__                 lkim@swri.edu |
>|| San Antonio, TX 78228-0510   ----    __/   \    76450.2231@compuserve.com |
>|--------------------------------------~-------~------------------------------
>|                                                                             

I think that you have hit the nail on the head as far as angst is concerned.
I think that there is an inordinate amount of discussions on interracial
dating because it is a topic which interests all of us.  It also has a lot to do
with our own self image, which is far more important in the long run than 
who you date.  The discussion really opens up a lot of issues that has to do
with the "Asian" state of mind and is worth exploring.  I am just not sure if
staying with this dating thread is the way to explore these issues.


---
********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
From: dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina)
Subject: Re: Political Power--Why the quotas?
Reply-To: dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:26:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.170434.22453@u.washington.edu> gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.204831.29373@gtx.uucp> al@gtx.com (Alan Filipski) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec14.080115.15873@u.washington.edu> gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec14.063145.2250@news.columbia.edu> dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina) writes:
>>>>If you rely on arbitrary characteristics such as race, you won't be
>>>>able to please everyone.  Some group will inevitably feel
>>>>underrepresented, so discount the issue entirely.  Hire in the most
>>>>equitable fashion--hire the person who will best perform the duties of
>>>First task:  define qualified.
>>
>>he didn't say "qualified", he said "best".  why should we accept someone
>>who is merely "qualified" instead of seeking the best?
>
>	This assumes that what you want is
>		a) measurable
>		b) scalable
>	and	c) at least ordinal in nature.
>
>	A lot of people also think the measurement scale is ratio.
>
>	This still comes down to defining the qualifications. And often
>these qualifications don't have anything to do with the job, nor are
>they easily measured.
>
>-- 
>Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu


Roger, I think this has become more semantic than substantive.  I do
not believe it unreasonable to assume that an employer will know what
he wants in an employee.  It is that employer who ultimately
determines the criteria.  I argue that, based on his perception, the
employer should pick the best one from the crop, disregarding such
matters as race.  Clinton has stated unambiguously that race is one of
his criteria.  By suggesting he hire an Asian, you seem to agree that
race is a legitimate criterion.  I disagree with the integrity of that
agreement.

Cordially,



David
dnm9@columbia.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
From: c60a-ee@danube.Berkeley.EDU (60a Class Account)
Subject: Oops, apology
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 11:58:26 GMT

Just realized I left out all the 't's in Johnfelt.  Sorry.  Didn't catch
that error until too late.

Billy H. Chan <bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: g9utxu@fnma.COM (Tanin Uthanayanaka)
Subject: Re: Looking for Black woman
Reply-To: g9utxu@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:25:27 GMT

Why are you posting this in an Asian American group ? Why not a single group ? 
I might have been more understanding if you were looking for an Asian American 
female, which I must say am very attracted to, then I would've applaud your courage.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke)
Subject: Re: The Clinton Cabinet
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:39:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.173512.18893@sarah.albany.edu> ks4816@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.000541.19855@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>In article <6_h2=xr@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>>achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
>>>
>>>What percentage of Americans are Asian-American?
>>>
>>From the 1990 US Census figures:
>>	White				80%
>>	Black				12%
>>	Hispanic			 9%
>>	Asian and Pacific Islander	 3%
>>	Native American			 1%
>>[stuff deleted]
>
>What is the criteria used to determine minority status? I have always assumed
>that it would be dependent upon population within a country...but, as Asians
>aren't considered a minority and yet our population is still well below that of
>African-Am. and Hispanics, I would like to know the definition of minority. 
>
>(excuse the incoherency of this post but it's finals time...ick...)
>
>-JS
>

Advertising....

Thank You,

Daniel W. Woycke             |"I went out drinking with Thomas 
Information Engineer (c) 1992|Paine..." -- Billy Bragg
The MITRE Corporation	     |"But I am still thirsty..."
7525 Colshire Drive (MS Z213)|-- Arrested Development
McLean, VA   22102           |These opinions are mine and are not
woycke@smiley.mitre.org      |and will not be held by anyone else.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Super Power in new century and Yellow Peril
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:37:08 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A755284BEB01C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 00:39:07 GMT

>>In  Article 17987 (28 more) in soc.culture.asian.american:
>Dwight Joe (underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe))
>>In the very likely event that China terrorizes another nation (like possibly
>>the Republic of Taiwan in the future), that Japanese prime minister
>>can, with the cooperation of the USA, successfully direct its military forces
>>to send the Chinese armies to Almighty God.

Maybe it's be in the US' best interests to side with China, a state of ~1
billion people, destroy Japan, and then that's leave the US as the sole Economic
superpower (assuming the EC will never get its act together).  Then the US can
exploit what promises to be the largest market on earth with out the interferance
of those pesky Japanese products.  

But then again, why would the US want to sell its products to the Chinese-cu?
Knowing how *evil* they are, they'd probaly take our stuff and not pay for them.

;-)

======================================================================
|Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan  |
|  kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering  |
|  kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student       |
======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jtteh@borland.com (J.T. Teh)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Originator: jtteh@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International, Inc.
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:56:47 GMT

philly@brahms.udel.edu (Robert Hite) writes:

>In article <1992Dec14.142812.6428@almserv.uucp> g9utxu@fnma.COM writes:
>>In article 1gbblpINN11a@cat.cis.Brown.EDU, ST701852@brownvm.brown.edu (Carole E. Mah) writes:
>>>
>>>I am another lurking AAF. Since ppl asked for input from
>>>AAF, the question being, whom do you date, and why -- here goes.
>>>
>>>  I've only dated one asian man. I DID find him attractive,
>>>and partly it WAS because of his race. But I have also dated
>>>causcasian men, mostly Jewish, god knows why.  I've also dated
>>>a Hispanic woman. I've also dated several caucasian women.
>>>Race HAS played a part in why I dated these people....

>--stuff deleted--

>>Please do not take this post offensively but I'm just curious about your gender.
>>You seem to be dating both gender ??? For instant, "I've only dated one asian man. 
>>I've also dated a Hispanic woman. Similarly, one Caucasian guy I dated...Similarly, 
>>one Caucasian woman I dated..." It may be my ignorance for the abbreviations of 
>>"ppl" that is causing this curiosity.
>>

>Maybe the young woman is bisexual.  Did that thought ever occur to you?  By
>the way, I applaud her for her openness in discussing her dating preferences.
>I wish there were more frankness and honesty on this group and less petty
>arguments.  Just my $.02

Or it could actually be two people writing the same article! :-)

>Rob

- JT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mike@clubmezz.Berkeley.EDU (Michael T. Itamura)
Subject: American History?
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:44:45 GMT


  Well the local PBS station in San Francisco ran the entire 'Civil War'
series today.  While watching it, actually I only saw a couple of hours of
the show, I couldn't help but think how distant I feel from that part of
American history.  While the show was interesting,  I feel no emotional
attachment to the events during the war due to the fact that my progenitors
were living in Japan during the American Civil War.  I suppose that
I sort of feel the same way about the American Revolution or 'our
Pilgrim forefathers' that we learned about in grade school.   The earliest
American history that I have any emotional attachment to pretty much
co-incides with the time that my family arrived in the United States/Hawaii.
How do other SCAA readers feel about American History?  Do you 'identify'
with events that happened in this country that happened before you or your
progenitors arrived in this country?  Or are those historical events merely
events that you think of as 'other peoples history?'  
  I guess that the reason why I am interested in post 1900 American and
Asian American History is that I can see how world and national events
affected my family.  Knowing how my family was influenced by certain
historical events makes the history come alive.  For instance, my father has
a photo of his parent's wedding.  My grandfather was a Japanese immigrant
while his wife was a Palo Alto born Nisei.  Now before I knew much about
Asian American history, this photo was just a wedding picture to me - I
did not realize the legal ramifications of this wedding.  When the wedding
took place, there was a law on the books called the Cable Act - this law
stripped the American citizenship away from my grandmother because she had
married my alien (who was ineligible for citizenship because he was
Japanese) grandfather.  Knowing that this wedding cost my grandmother
her citizenship really makes me look at their wedding photograph in a
different light.  Anyhow, I find it interesting when I can tie an event in
my family history with something that I read in a book - really makes
history come alive.  
  Well, I guess I'll close by saying that I have learned a lot about my
family by talking to my older relatives - and poking around in places
like the LDS libraries and National Archives.  You might want to try
it too - especially if your familiy came over to the US before 1920.
			Mike Itamura
			mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu
From: ST701852@brownvm.brown.edu (Carole E Mah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: police harrassment
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:05:06 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Nina Yuan says:
>...We have few
>anti-Asian(-American) incidents, but they were relatively minor
>(crank calls committed by someone from outside Harvard, and
>graffiti on a bulletin board) and were quickly condemned and
>dealt with.  Frankly, your depiction of the insensitivity of
>the Brown campus police surprises me; were you describing
>actual incidents?
    Yes, I am. From things I have heard, Yale is similar. (?)
And friends at other universities have reported similar attitudes.
I think it might have to do with where your campus is.
I've hung around MIT a bit in the past few years and would
agree it feels really safe.  But look at Cambridge, it's
a fairly gentrified area.  Whereas,look at BU. It is in the city
proper.  The police, with their stereotypes about
poor urban ethnic minorities, are going to be jerks when
they think they are in a high-crime area, whether or not it
actually is one.  Providence is not Cambridge.
Brown is not Harvard.
  I'm glad to hear that you feel safe there, though.
I was beginning to get cynical and was going to assume everywhere
was bad. Thanks for stopping me from growing too old and bitter ;-).

carole
--- Thelma and Louise in '92! ---
carole elaine mah
st701852@brownvm.bitnet
st701852@brownvm.brown.edu
Carole_Mah@brown.edu
---------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Subject: Re: ...or purple
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:21:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.012815.21223@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>No, we are NOT all evil, racist, reactionary,
>pigs trying to inflict vicious guilt trips on "our" (yeah, and we all
>think we own Asian-American women) women.

	Speak for yourself.

	Oink, oink.



-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:50:20 GMT

In article 1go32jINN1fc@agate.berkeley.edu, bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
>|Which leads me to my main question.  To all the Asian Americans
>|out there, how much do you value your native (no...Asian) 
>|Language (ie, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, those spoken in India
>|(I'm not sure how to spell them), etc.etc.etc)?
>|
Well, I am extremely glad that my parents forced me to learn chinese.  
I left Taiwan in the third grade and I am still able to speak and 
understand mandarin.  I recently got a job because the job entailed going
to asia and for the person to be able to communicate in chinese.  But
beyond that, I think it is a very important facet of one's history to 
have an understanding of the language of whense one's ancestors came from.  
It gives peopel a sense of where they are and where they are headed.  

>|So I ask you, what will you want for your children?  In the growing
>|interracial marriage scene, should we expect our children to learn
>|3 or 4 different languages (Spanish/English/Chinese trilingual in the
>|aforementioned poster's son's case).  (and lets keep this a friendly
>|debate :)
>|-- 
I was also fortunate enough to live in central america for a few years, 
the rudimentary spanish that I have been able to retain has been great for meeting people and for helping myself and others in difficult situations.  So I think
language training is very important.

Learning a language entails a lot of sacrifice and discipline, but it can also be fun. 
The chinese school method  of teaching chinese is not the most fun for younger kids,
it can definitely be improved upon, although I doubt that will happen.  I don't
know about other languages though.  

>|-----------------------------------------------------------------
>|*	Billy H. Chan		<bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu> 	*
>|*	Lost at Cal!!!   	<bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu>	*
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------



********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-male, nerd, geek, etc.
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:33:47 GMT
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <kko.2p6c@terapin.com> kko@terapin.com (Kenneth Ko..) writes:
>
>I wanna know what's the DIFFERENCE between the suffixes mean.  I mean, from
>what I've read, a person can only be one of these.  I personally am chinese
>culturally (-cu), and chinese genetically (-ge).  Sorry I'm not a citizen of a
>chinese nation but I wanted my right to vote.  I can also say that I'm a
>chinese-vb (volleyball player), chinese-st (student), and chinese-hd
>(hoopty-driver).  I need a little more explanation to these two common
>suffixes... are they even relevant to discussions?

Let's use your examples.  Consider these statements and their translations
into normal parlance:

STATEMENT:                          TRANSLATION:
He is Chinese-ge.                   He is genetically Chinese.
He is Chinese-cu.                   He is culturally Chinese.
He is Chinese-ci.                   He is Chinese by citizenship.
He is Chinese-vb.                   He is Chinese by volleyball.
He is Chinese-st.                   He is Chinese by study.
He is Chinese-hd.                   He is Chinese by hoopty-driving.

Some of these statements make more sense than others (to me at least).
You describe yourself as Chinese-ge Chinese-cu non-Chinese-ci.  Probably you
know some people who are Chinese-ge American-cu American-ci.  But it's
hard to imagine what Chinese-ge Chinese-cu Chinese-ci American-vb would
mean.

I think these distinctions are quite relevant to the discussions here.
For example, I've seen many posters draw some conclusion about typical
behavior of `Asian men' (meaning `Asian-cu men') and then a few sentences
this conclusion is being applied to `Asian men' again (but this time
meaning `Asian-ge' men).  Use of these suffixes or some other distinguishing
terminology makes the contradiction more obvious.  Again, for example,
if I make some statement to the effect that `Japanese-ge women usually
have the following personality traits...' it's guaranteed to be stupid;
whereas, if I make a statement of the type `Japanese-cu women usually
have the following personality traits...' it's stupid only some of the time.

BTW, please don't say that you don't understand the difference between
Chinese-ge and Chinese-cu.  You'll only get you-know-who started up again.
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
When orbiting particle-beam weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have
orbiting particle-beam weapons.
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian cliques. Why?
Keywords: Asian-Americans
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:26:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology

In article <1992Dec12.001309.11459@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> bshieh@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Shieh) writes:
>    A former Asian American studies TA of mine once observed:
>
> People see a bunch of White guys hanging out wearing the same jackets and 
>they see a fraternity.
>
> People see a bunch of African_Americans hanging out wearing the same 
>jackets and they see a gang.
>
> So what do people see when they see a bunch of Asians hanging out wearing
>the same jackets?

  Tourists???  :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: inter-racial dating
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:46:48 GMT

Carole,

Well, I for one tend to agree with you on this class issue, as much as my liberal leanings compell me to disagree.  I think that a major issue her is comfort.
People tend to be more comfortable with people that are like them, race wise,
class wise, religion wise, etc.   It is very rare that someone will venture 
outside of their surroundings or upbringing to cross over into what is foreign.  
Since many asian americans have settle into a middle class, white society, it 
is a matter of comfort for them to connect with people from that particular 
background.  Combine that with the fact that we live in a society that stresses caucasian beauty as the norm, I think that it is not surprizing that we see 
what we see in the dating habits of many asian americans.

I do have a question for you.  Lesbianism amongst asian women is not something I 
have thought about, and I am not trying to be crass or disrespectful, I just don't know how to approach this.  So here goes.  I don't expect you to be the spokesperson for all asian lesbians, but in your experience, are there proportionally as many 
asian-american lesbians as caucasian lesbians, i.e. same percentages with respect to the overall population of causcasian and asian women?  If not, could this be why you have been dating mostly caucasian females?  Given the more conservative world views of asians in general, is it possible that more asian lesbians are still firmly in the closet and afraid to come out? 

Just curious.

---
********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************