From: nelson_p@APOLLO.HP.COM
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Wage Slavery (Was: BIG LIE about the market)
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:44:27 GMT


>>  These social wounds are self-inflicted!  It's hard enough being poor
>
>Keep telling yourself that. It must make you sleep better at night.
 
  Sorry, but I just don't see how the choice to do intravenous
  drugs or for teenagers to have babies cannot be considered 
  a self-inflicted wound.   In what way are people who choose
  such things not making their lives *more* wretched?  Homicide
  is the leading cause of death of young black males in the US
  (except in some communities where it's AIDS), 25% of all 
  young black men in the US are in jail or on parole and the
  US has a higher percentage of its black population in 
  prison than South Africa.

>False and false again. The crime and drug use rates in Irish Five Points and 
>the Jewish Lower East Side, not to mention the East End of London 
>have been famous at times.  Of course, Americans do seem to be more into
>drugs and violence than many other people, but that's not particular to 
>poor americans.

  True and false.  The Senate Judiciary Committee, in a report last
  March 13, 1991, found the US to be THE most violent society of
  any society on Earth which keeps records (based on rates of murder,
  rape, and robbery).  

  But many of our problems *are* more true of the poor.  Again, I
  cite the 15% rate of crack babies in at BCH.  Or the HUGE rate 
  of AIDS among poor.   I mean, I suppose one could argue that 
  the unwanted teenage pregnancy rate is just as high in Wellesley
  (affluent community in Mass.) as Roxbury (poor coommunity 12 miles
  east of Wellesley) but the rich Wellesley girls are just having
  lots of abortions, but this would be highly speculative and 
  you can't abort or easily hide a case of AIDS.   



>   And with an infant mortality rate in the
>range of Bangladesh, it is not at all clear that people in Harlem are
>much better off than people in other nations. 

  I agree.  In fact the male lifespan in Harlem is currently **less** 
  than the male fifespan in Bangladesh.   But look at why:  in 
  Bangladesh it's wretched poverty, poor sanitary conditions,
  and frequent massive floods -- not things they have much
  control over. They do have a high birth-rate but they're 
  also illiterate and come from an agrarian culture emphasizing 
  big families and its hard to break old cultural habits. 
  Compare this to Harlem:  Homicide and AIDS are the two
  biggest cause of death -- these result from *behaviors*,
  *choices*.   And the rate of unwed births in the black 
  community in 1950 was about the same as whites.  Today 
  it's 60% overall and in the large city ghettoes its 80%.


>>  something *cultural* going on and it is very unclear WHAT sort of 
>>  government response might correct it.
>
>The same sort that has worked before. Housing, jobs, and education. Nothing
>very mysterious. 

  If it were that simple you would have to explain why American poor
  seem to make more self-destructive choices in terms of violence,
  drugs , and out-of-wedlock children than the poor in other 
  societies.   The US has tried major public-housing projects 
  which were complete disasters.  Mission Hill, Pruitt Igoe,
  etc.  And the Boston Globe reported earlier this year that
  the city of Boston spends ** $7000 ** a year per student
  in their school system.   The town where I live spends about
  $3500 a year.

  Jobs are good.  Jobs are important.  Jobs are scarce.  But 
  how does it follow that because one is out of work one should 
  feel compelled to shoot someone, stick a needle in one's 
  arm, or have a baby?   You can't argue that it's an 
  emotional escape from the wretchedness of poverty since
  the poor in other places are just as wretched, if not more
  so, but don't make these choices to the same extent.  


---peter