HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gunther@world.std.com (Gunther W Anderson)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:38:22 GMT

In article <1eeqh4INN6nm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> mac5@po.CWRU.Edu (Manjirnath A. Chatterjee) writes:
>
>Why Why?
>
>I thought the point was that the computer actually did understand the 
>question and that was why it was stumped.  Responses such as 
>"insufficient data"  and such only assume that the computer did not
>understand the question.  The computer was hung because it did understand
> the question and it understood that there was not answer.
>
>Oh well I guess it is more of an idelogical problem than a logic problem.
>
Well, if the computer understood the question and recognized that there
wasn't any answer, there no logical reason it wouldn't have come right out
and said it.  Besides, as someone previously posted, the question of 
context in this discussion is of paramount importance with respect to how
both a computer and a human would answer that question.

The process whereby anything parses the simple sentence 'Why?' first
necessarily starts with 'Why what?'.  People tend to instantiate {what}
with the last topic of conversation, or if not clear, the last action
described.  given the previous statement 'X did Y', the answer to
'Why?' would be an inference to the motivations of X for doing Y.  The
only way I can see the General crashing and burning would be if it was
unclear what was being referenced to by the {what} inferred above, and
it somehow found itself in an infinite recursion trying to determine the
reference point of the question.  Of course, such things are easy enough
to program around, either by testing for non-terminating recursions or
simply asking the operator when there isn't enough information to
complete the request.  And for this to have happened in a less allegorical
universe, it would have been a collossal bug quickly discovered and fixed.

It sort of reminds me of why I didn't like the two-part ST:TNG about the
Borg invasion of the Federation.  After having felled the entirety of 
Star Fleet's vaunted might, they were utterly obliterated by a bug in their
operating system.  I'm sure whatever fool left sleep() as an unprotected
system call just lost their job at IBM/Alpha Centauri.

>
>-- 
>Manu Chatterjee					mac5@po.cwru.edu
>                    ..on me, myself and I..
> It's very difficult for me to understand what I did when myself 
>                 doesn't know anything about it...

					Gunther Anderson

******
HAEC SI LEGERE POTES NIMIVM SAPES
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: fbrunel@pasteur.fr (Franck Brunel)
Subject: gif or jpeg pictures needed
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:50:12 MET
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X-Expires: Mon, 23 Nov 92
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Hi,

Could someone post some gif or jpeg pictures of the prisoner.

Many thanks for your attention.

******************************************************************************
 Franck BRUNEL, PhD          / Voice: (1) 45 68 80 00 ext. 7284
 Institut Pasteur            / FAX:   (1) 40 61 31 10
 PARIS (France)              /E-Mail: franck.brunel@pasteur.fr
			 
 " La terreur sans laquelle la vertu est impuissante,
		la vertu sans laquelle la terreur est funeste..."
				Saint-Just
*******************************************************************************
From: mcsdc1gf@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: PRI. CONVENTIONS
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:54:14 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology




    HI THERE , FELLOW PRISONERS!!! THIS IS NO.9 !

    CAN I ASK JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS??


   OH ,TA!
   
    O.K   , CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHEN THEN NEXT CONVENTION AT THE VILLAGE

 IS FOR THE 'SIX-OF-ONE' CLUB AS I AM GOING TO JOIN THE CLUB BUT I DONT

    WANT TO MISS THE COVENTION!!!

   ALSO , IS THERE ANY CONVENTIONS DUE IN SOON IN BRITAIN??
      

                        BE SEEING YOU


                       GARRY

Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: imccall@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian McCall)
Subject: Opening doors picture
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:41:15 GMT


Does anyone have a GIF or something of the bit in the opening credits
where No.6 opens the doors? I'd love to have it as a start-up screen for
my Mac...


Ian

Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: rkimmel@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Kimmel)
Subject: Re: ***Please Help!***
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 09:31:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.015552.16569@news.unomaha.edu> wbogue@cwis.unomaha.edu (Leslie Schriber Bogue) writes:
>Number 1 is The General

Nice try, but no.
From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: ***Please Help!***
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:22:56 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov22.093100.18677@u.washington.edu>, rkimmel@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Kimmel) writes:
> In article <1992Nov22.015552.16569@news.unomaha.edu> wbogue@cwis.unomaha.edu (Leslie Schriber Bogue) writes:
>>Number 1 is The General
> 
> Nice try, but no.

Yes, even I knew theat The General isn't Number 1.  Number 6 >destroyed< The
General, remember?!

Oh, and thanks to everyone who tried to fill us in on the series...not.

*Lucas*
From: ajr@aber.ac.uk (Ade Rixon)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: why?
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:26:53 GMT
Reply-To: ajr@aber.ac.uk
Organization: University Of Wales, Aberystwyth - Party town!

In article <1dpl5mINNr4e@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
 mfb@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael F. Booth) doodled:

> 
> In a previous article, ajr@aber.ac.uk (Adrian Jonathan Rixon) says:
> 
> > (Regarding the question "WHY?" in "The General":)
> >It's a cheap ending to an otherwise decent episode. It marks the point
> >where the writer ran out of ideas. :-)
> >
> 
> 	The question is "WHY?" for allegorical reasons.
> 
> 	"The General" is an episode about education.  It opens by
> introducing a miraculous method of learning-- no studying, just a
> hypnotic treatment which prints a lecture word-for-word onto your
> memory. 
> 	The General -- a mighty computer that knows everything -- is the
> ultimate example of the System that created this "education".  Number
> Six confounds the computer, however, not by asking it to repeat facts or
> do calculations, but by asking it "WHY?".  The computer, knowing only
> facts but nothing of what lies behind them, cannot answer questions like
> this, questions that require real understanding -- so it gives up in a
> rather spectacular 1960's-sci-fi fashion.

Granted, but this point has already been made earlier in the following
dialogue:
12: What was the Treaty of Adrianople?
6: ...September ... 1876?
12: Wrong! I said what, not when.

Ade_
   /
From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: why?
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:56:22 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

My own feeling on The General imploding when faced by the question "Why?" was a
metaphor for the whole situation in The Prisoner*
    Number 6 confounds the likes of Number 2*  Theoretically, Number 6 should
be easily placced into the socciety of the village*  He comes from a similar
background to the other numbers and after seeing the hopelessness of escape he
should succcumb to the village*
    However, he strives to remain the way he is ("I am not a number, I am a
free man!")*  As I have already seen in the series he has worn down at least
one Number 2 by refusing to relinquish himself to the village*
    Could this be the message of The General's destruction?  That Number 6 will
not bow down to the apparent omniscience and power of the village?

PS Someone just told me that Number 6 IS Number 1* Comments?

pps my full stop key isn't working, sorry* 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Fall Out (Questions - and spoilers)
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:20:39 GMT

In article <BxxnG5.967@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> john@monet.uwaterloo.ca
(John Robinson) writes:
>I think most people here are familiar with the whole series of The
>Prisoner, but just in case...
>
>Spoilers coming up

>
>I've just seen Fallout for the first time. Now I just about understand
>what people are talking about on this group!
>
>At the risk of asking silly questions...
>
>Why did McGoohan write in the shoot-'em-up scene? There was no need for
>it so far as the plot was concerned (as if plot consistency were 
>a feature of The Prisoner anyhow). How is the prisoner's forsaking of
>his no guns principle to be interpreted? (And why do they have to pile
>on the irony so heavily with All You Need is Love?)

The "no guns principle" from _Living in Harmony_? There, he was refusing
to take up a gun to defend the town from the bad guys...he doesn't want the
job and refuses to be manipulated into accepting it [at least, not as
expected]. A real twist on _Shane_ and _High Noon_.

Now if he thought that using a gun would get him freedom without having
to bend to the village, I don't think he'd hesitate to use it. Its been a
couple years since I've seen the Prisoner, but I think by this time in the
story, he has seen that he himself is #1...he is ultimately responsible 
for the mess he finds himself in [his jailer is his own dark side, the beast
within]. He's thus quite inclined to use force to supress an aspect of his
inner self he's sure he doesn't want running his life!

Thus the need for the violence...he is NOT going to let his dark side rule
him, he'd going to fight to supress it from ruining his life. He means to
be free of it!

The "All You Need is Love" scene is indeed a filled with irony...not only is
his good side dealing death to his bad side, on another level the show is
taking a pot-shot at the flower power-ish [make love not war] nonsense
expressed by the song...that "all you need is love" as a concept is in fact
ridiculous. In particular, that freedom is important too, and to gain/keep
it may involve quite a bit of activity that is mighty hard to describe as
an expression of "love"  :-)

Scott.
-- 
Scott Hannon, Thu Nov 19 1992 (hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu)
From: domalley@unix1.tcd.ie (Slartibartfast            (alias Daniel O'Malley))
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: NOTICE: portmeiron.gif posted to alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:22:43 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

I've posted portmeiron.gif to alt.binaries.pictures.misc - it's
an aerial shot of everyone's favourite Village... A little fuzzy,
but quite nice...

Be seeing you,
Daniel.
--
|       //              |------Daniel O'Malley--domalley@unix1.tcd.ie------|
|   ===//  ===    ===   |---"In the beginning, the universe was created.---|
| //  // //  // //  //  |-This has made a lot of people angry and has been-|
|  ==//   ==// //  //   |--widely regarded as a bad move.":Douglas Adams.--|
From: isaac@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac Truder)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: Fallout
Date: 16 Nov 1992 01:10:06 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu
Keywords: the rocket


 > I completely lose my grasp of the series at that one
 > point: he was inside the rocket, he launches it, it flies out
 > of the village, we never heard about it before, we enver hear
 > about where it went.  Perhaps they had to find a way to spend
 > all of their money for the second season special effects account?

Ahhh, but the even stranger thing is that we DID hear about it before!
Was it not "The Girl Who Was Death", with the dictator in the Napoleon
costume, who was about to launch a missile that seemed like a tower
from the inside?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: vrv@cimage.com (Victor Volkman)
Subject: Cheap Prisoner Viewing?
Organization: Cimage Corp, Ann Arbor, MI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 13:47:57 GMT

>Hi, all.
>        I'm a college student who has seen a few episodes and am interested in
>seeing 
>the rest of the series.  I realize that the episodes are all available on 
>video, but that is a little beyond my means.  Does anyone know of a PBS 
>run anytime soon?  I have friends w/VCRs in NYC and DC who would hopefully
>be
>able to help out.  If this is not a possibility, are there any other
>suggestions on how someone who is short on funds could see this interesting

I always recommend renting at Blockbuster Video.  You can get any epsiodes
of TP there as well as the first half-dozen Danger Man / Secret Agent series.
Each rental costs only $2 and is good for 48 hours, whatta deal!

In the U.K., they have just released a boxed set of five or six tapes with
the entire 17 hours of footage on it for under $100.  This is much better
than the $20/tape you have to pay in the U.S. ($340 total), if you can 
even find it for that price.
From: phd99@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Asmodeus)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: ***Please Help!***
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:07:11 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Nov20.105940.1604@dct.ac.uk>, by mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk:
>      1)What is the symbolism of the black cat supposed to signify?
  A still tongue makes a happy life.
>      2)What does the penny farthing symbol mean?
  Questions are a burden to others...
>      3)Why is No.6 there in the first place?
  ...Answers are a prison for one's self
>      4)Who's side is The Village on?
  That would be telling.
>      5)Why does No.6 resign in the beginning?
  We want information.
>      6)Who is No.1?
  You are number 6.
>      7)WHY?
  ** Cue melting computer special effects **  
> Thanx in advance
  Feel free!

  Be seeing you,
	Number 42.
--
      .
              [Believed to be the smallest .sig in the world]
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: ***Please Help!***
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:59:39 +0100
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology


Help!!

Me and some friends have recently become hooked on "The Prisoner" and we want
information.  Anyone who can mail me with any shred of info that will make the
show clearer to us will be helping us a great deal.  In particular:

     1)What is the symbolism of the black cat supposed to signify?
     2)What does the penny farthing symbol mean?
     3)Why is No.6 there in the first place?
     4)Who's side is The Village on?
     5)Why does No.6 resign in the beginning?
     6)Who is No.1?
     7)WHY?


Thanx in advance

LUCAS*****
From: mac5@po.CWRU.Edu (Manjirnath A. Chatterjee)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Why?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 01:27:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: mac5@po.CWRU.Edu (Manjirnath A. Chatterjee)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Why Why?

I thought the point was that the computer actually did understand the 
question and that was why it was stumped.  Responses such as 
"insufficient data"  and such only assume that the computer did not
understand the question.  The computer was hung because it did understand
 the question and it understood that there was not answer.

Oh well I guess it is more of an idelogical problem than a logic problem.


just my two cents...

-- Manu C.   


-- 
Manu Chatterjee					mac5@po.cwru.edu
                    ..on me, myself and I..
 It's very difficult for me to understand what I did when myself 
                 doesn't know anything about it...
From: pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: Fallout
Keywords: the rocket
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 23:21:00 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: like communism, but nicer.

bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go) writes:

> 
> In article <1e6sdeINNhdl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, isaac@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac Trude
> |> 
> |>  > I completely lose my grasp of the series at that one
> |>  > point: he was inside the rocket, he launches it, it flies out
> |>  > of the village, we never heard about it before, we enver hear
> |>  > about where it went.  Perhaps they had to find a way to spend
> |>  > all of their money for the second season special effects account?
> |> 
> |> Ahhh, but the even stranger thing is that we DID hear about it before!
> |> Was it not "The Girl Who Was Death", with the dictator in the Napoleon
> |> costume, who was about to launch a missile that seemed like a tower
> |> from the inside?
> 
> Wasn't "Napoleon" in TGWWD played by the same actor as the judge in
> Fall Out? My favourite interpretation of FO is that No 6 had wigged
> out (pun intended - sorry) during Once Upon A Time and the stuff in
> FO was at least partly in his demented mind. So it would make some
> kind of sense for Napoleon, The Kid and the rocket to come back for
> a re-try.
> -- 
> bob_cannard@mentorg.com			"More dynamite!" - Theron Marks

 
 Yeah, but that's assuming that you can take the show on a LITERAL level,
which I find impossible to do. I mean, each episode gave us a new social 
structure, new Village lay-out, etc..
 
marlowe

------------------------------------------------------------------darkpark BBS
pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sandman@sx.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Prisoner the comic: shattered village
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:12:38 GMT
Reply-To: sandman%sx.ac.uk@essex.ac.uk (sandman)
Distribution: alt.tv.prisoner
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

Has anyone got a copy of this??

Is it any good??

Cheers


 - The Sandman
From: dran@spectrx.saigon.com (Dran)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Fallout
Keywords: the rocket
Date: 15 Nov 92 04:11:45 GMT
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca


        Has anyone come up with a good symbolic or allegorical
interpretation of the rocket that No6 is launching in the final
episode?  I completely lose my grasp of the series at that one
point: he was inside the rocket, he launches it, it flies out
of the village, we never heard about it before, we enver hear
about where it went.  Perhaps they had to find a way to spend
all of their money for the second season special effects account?
        Also, in the final episode, we see about ten shots of 
villagers running ("Evacuate! Evacuate! Evacuate!").  One of the
shots of people running out across a beach looks suspiciously
like a shot I think I saw in The General where a group of people
are chasing the professor.  Anyone else notice that?
        Anyhow, thanks for the replies ahead of time.  Be seeing you

                - Adam Riggs [ariggs@walrus.mvhs.edu] AKA #42

--
dran@spectrx.saigon.com (Dran)
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005  Silicon Valley, Ca
From: victor.volkman@hal9000.UUCP (Victor Volkman)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: OPENING DOORS PICTURE
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:27:00 GMT
Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9000.UUCP (Victor Volkman)
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, (313)663-4173, Ann Arbor, MI, USA

-> Does anyone have a GIF or something of the bit in the opening credits
-> where No.6 opens the doors? I'd love to have it as a start-up screen
-> for my Mac...

I have this available is PRIS02.GIF on my BBS at (313)663-4173 and
(313)663-3959.  You will find it in directory #23.

Of course, you might even prefer the famous "punchcard shot" (which
occurs about 10 sec. later).  That file is available as PRIS03.GIF.

BCNU
From: detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: Fallout
Keywords: the rocket
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:26:54 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

dran@spectrx.saigon.com (Dran) writes:

>Also, in the final episode, we see about ten shots of 
>villagers running ("Evacuate! Evacuate! Evacuate!").  One of the
>shots of people running out across a beach looks suspiciously
>like a shot I think I saw in The General where a group of people
>are chasing the professor.  Anyone else notice that?

It was quite common for scenes to be reused throughout the series,
it saved on production costs, something ITC complained about all
thru production.

I will have to run thru my tapes and look for this.

Later,


-- 
David De Trolio - (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)
--------------------------------------------------
Reagan-Bush 1980-1988 + Bush-Quayle 1988-1992
Twelve Years of Strong American Leadership
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go)
Subject: Re: Fallout
Originator: bcannard@hppcb36
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:39:06 GMT
Reply-To: bob_cannard@mentorg.com
Organization: Best Buy Byakhees Inc.
Keywords: the rocket
Followup-To: 


In article <1e6sdeINNhdl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, isaac@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac Truder) writes:
|> 
|>  > I completely lose my grasp of the series at that one
|>  > point: he was inside the rocket, he launches it, it flies out
|>  > of the village, we never heard about it before, we enver hear
|>  > about where it went.  Perhaps they had to find a way to spend
|>  > all of their money for the second season special effects account?
|> 
|> Ahhh, but the even stranger thing is that we DID hear about it before!
|> Was it not "The Girl Who Was Death", with the dictator in the Napoleon
|> costume, who was about to launch a missile that seemed like a tower
|> from the inside?

Wasn't "Napoleon" in TGWWD played by the same actor as the judge in
Fall Out? My favourite interpretation of FO is that No 6 had wigged
out (pun intended - sorry) during Once Upon A Time and the stuff in
FO was at least partly in his demented mind. So it would make some
kind of sense for Napoleon, The Kid and the rocket to come back for
a re-try.
-- 
bob_cannard@mentorg.com			"More dynamite!" - Theron Marks
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner