From: riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: AIDS and Legislation of morality
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:41:03 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,talk.politics.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: LNK Corporation, Riverdale, MD

In article <Bw3Dvp.B9y@ns1.nodak.edu> green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.194212.22997@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>>This "family values" stuff is just a nifty way of legislating moralism.
>>It is hateful, being the core of the new Christian Conservative politics - 
>>"You don't believe in family values?  What a sinner folks, this one would
>>probably kill you and eat your kids without a thought!"  Just bush-league
>>manipulation.  Please let me know when these family values we have supposedly
>>lost produced a peaceful, loving American society.  Was it 30 years ago?
>>90?  150?  Funny, all of our history has featured violence, whether or not
>>people believed in the stereotypical values embodied in the current usage
>>of the phrase.  The "Good Old Days" never were, and certainly never will be.
>
>I'm getting a little tired of jerks putting down values.  The do your own thing
>to hell with values attitude in the 60's might be the cause of all our 
>problems now.  What are values?  (Forget the family part.)

	Since Dave and I work in offices which are, apparently, not to far
from each other in the D.C. area, I would like to at least provide some
prespective on this subject. 

	The area bordering the District of Columbia on the Maryland
side ain't exactly a bed of roses, my friend. Guns, drugs, drive-by shootings.
The latest kick is "car-jackings" whereby the hoodlums jump into your
car and pull you OUT, then drive away. It takes a certain kind of blocking 
mentality to filter that stuff out, as one drives up DC 295.

	I don't have a clue as to how Dave got to the "things are *just* as
bad as they used to be" conclusion. Depends on your viewpoint, and maybe,
how much rationalization one needs to do to keep the angst down.

>
>We see rampant crime in large cities, and we also see a breakdown in the
>family in the same areas.  If everyone believed (an impossible dream) in
>things like honesty, responsibility, and (go ahead, laugh) the "golden
>rule", crime would drop dramatically.  Maybe I'm old fashioned, and if
>so, I make no apologies for it.  If you are taught that some things are
>just plain wrong, and you don't do them, you go along way toward solving
>problems.  When parents take responsibility in their kids actions, crime
>goes down.  When parents take responsibility in their kids education,
>the grade points go up.  When you accept responsibility for your actions,
>teen pregnancy rates go down, as well as AIDS.  Morons that put down the
>values issue are just that - morons.  Sure we have wars - no respect for
>the other guy causes them, along with ego problems.  Slavery?  Lack of
>respect for another person's rights.  You could go on and on.

	It would probably be good for country boys who hack on big
cities to live in one BIG city before passing judgement on people
who live in them...might teach them some humility. Otherwise, they should 
generally remain quiet and (dare I say it ?) pay their taxes. Now for my
part, I spend my leisure time in WASP World, don't really care if anybody
knows it either. BTW, how DID North Dakota get to be part of WASP World,
anyway ?	

>
>>Graduation from high school does not imply intelligence, and sexual activity
>>does not imply running around like minks.  Intelligence certainly does not
>>imply knowledge of right from wrong.  Heck, that's even in the Bible - 
>>remember Adam and Eve?
>
>No, graduation doesn't imply intelligence, but this is North Dakota,
>remember?  We don't just graduate people to get the numbers up.  And by
>every measure of learning, ACT and SAT test scores for example, we're
>right at the top.  Unrestricted sexual activity does imply a certain
>animal instict, animals just mate with no thought of what they are doing,
>it's an instinct thing.  I would hope people could think a little about
>what they were doing.  Are you implying we have no more intelligence 
>than a mink, and just act instinctively?

	Everything is cool in WASP World. The kids get in by 11, earn their
grades the old fashioned way - nope no problems at all. Just like it has
always been :)

>
>As far as the failure rates for condoms go, I used to work for a drug
>wholesaler, I know how many get junked because they cannot be relied on.

	Why bother with the facts. WASP World clearly doesn't get it...some
people just don't WANT to live - or is it just that they've figured out
the costs versus the benefits of risking AIDS versus risking living a long 
life, and drawn a *rational* conclusion ? 

	And if one contemplates this dreary thought, what then is the 
marginal utility of Hell ?


	Bill R.

	"My opinions do not represent those of my employer or any
government agency."






-- 
Bill R.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic