HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ben@shark.smartstar.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:38:07 GMT
Organization: SmartStar/Signal Technology

In article <1992Dec15.213557.17851@atlastele.com>, briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
|> >I think many of these sailors would have been in serious trouble if they
|> >had had power problems or GPS failures.
|> 
|>    So what if they drop and break their sextant, or drop it in the drink?
|>    What's the diff, really?

The difference is in the complexity, hence reliability, of the device.

Sextants are very very simple devices that rely on just a few very basic
(i.e. reliable) laws of geometry and astronomy.  They just don't fail
that often, and perhaps most importantly, it is usually easy to tell when
they have failed.

A GPS or LORAN on the other hand relies on many, many other complex sub
systems to operate.  These subsystems are prone to failure, and of course
the whole system is much less reliable than any of its parts.  Perhaps 
most problematic, the system can fail in completely non-obvious ways.

You're not likely to break your sextant, but when you do, you'll know it.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Ellsworth                            E-MAIL  ben@smartstar.com
SmartStar Corp.            
120 Cremona Dr.                                   VOICE  (805) 685-8000
Goleta, CA    93117                               FAX    (805) 562-1111
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   All possible disclaimers apply.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 24 Dec 92 21:32:07 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <Bzp3I7.B7L@idm.com> tmb@idm.com (Thomas M Buccelli) writes:
 
>The US Taxpayers should pay for this the same way that the US taxpayers, or
>taxpayers in general pay for things they will never use. I pay for taxes that
>go towards public schools, transportation, etc that I will never use, but the
>money goes there anyway. Same difference.
>
>					Tom
I disagree.
I understand why we all want to pay for schools so we can live in a country
of educated people, less crime, unemployment, etc.  Transportation ? may be,
I'm not sure.  But I pretty sure I don't that recreational boating is not
in the same catergory as schools.

What would you say about the ski patrol ?
Do you think ski patrol should be federally funded ?  Right now its paid
by my lift ticket.  Isn't Skiing / ski-patrol analogous to boating / coast
guard saftey & rescue operations ?  

There are 4 funding options here:
1) Charge each boater each time he is rescued.
2) Charge all boaters is case of needed rescue.
3) Charge all US citizens in case boater (or skier) needs rescuing.
4) Charge all people in the world for the recreatinal saftey of some US citizens

Number 2 seems to be the most workable and fair tax base.

					Dean
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: msolomon@mitre.org (Moise Solomon)
Subject: Re: Price for 1986 J-24
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:38:39 GMT

In article <FRITZZ.92Dec22104859@ko.ldgo.columbia.edu>,
fritzz@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (fritz zaucker) wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is 15k a reasonable price for a 1986 J-24, supposedly in good shape,
> but with worn out sails (including trailer)?
> 
> Thanks,
> Fritz

That is a reasonable price for a 1986 J/24 if it is in good condition. 
Also, for that price the boat should have a valid measurment certificate
and a faired keel and rudder.  You will have to have the measurment
certificate renewed after you buy the boat, but you can be reasonable sure
the boat meets the class rules if it has already measured in.

I paid $15600 for my 1986 J/24 two years ago. It also needed new sails. 
You will find that a good condition J/24 will sell for close to what it
sold for new (the list price in the year it was sold).  New J/24 are in
excess of $25K.  A set of new sails will run around $3000 (make a deal with
a sailmaker now to get the best prices).  In my opinion, unless sails are
brand new they do not effect the price of the boat significantly since to
most competitive J/24s rarely race with sails older than one or two years.

Make sure the boat does not have any deep cracks in the deak and leaks
around fittings.  Also check the bulkhead around the chain plates and at
the base for water absorption, etc.  It costs approximately $1000 to
replace a wet bulkhead.  Have someone knowledgable check the hull and deak
for any water problems.

Moise Solomon

SHOCKWAVE
J/24 #4112   
msolomon@mitre.org
From: kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:15:27 GMT
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen
NNTP-Posting-Host: faui00e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de

zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:

>This points out a real problem though.  The charts themselves are often not
>as accurate as we would like to believe our GPS systems are.  Differential
>GPS will make this even worse.  I expect to see a lot of people aground
>because they try sailing full bore in the fog believing that they know
>EXACTLY where they are!!!
Wasn't if Joshua Slocum wha said that most ship get lost because they know
too exactly where they are?
I never trust maps too much - even Wolfgang Hausner wrecked his 'Taboo' on
an uncharted reef...

Ciao,
Klaus
---
Klaus Breuer, Rudelsweiher Str. 6b, 8520 Erlangen, Germany
** "Geez, I need a _reason_ for everything?" --Calvin 
** "Should I or shouldn't I? -- Too late, I did!" --Hobbes 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mshulman@genghis.borland.com (Michael Shulman)
Subject: inverter electric lesson
Organization: Borland International
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:17:44 GMT

Wow!

I'm always amazed by the depth of information found on the InterNet. The 
quick summary is:
	1. Batteries are measured in Ah (not A/H) and they may not give all
           of their amps up over any given amount of time (100 Ah = 20A * 5h,
           but not 5A * 20h).
        2. The you can't compare Amps at different voltages, only Watts 
           (makes sense, since Watts are the unit of work).

So, the 600W microwave takes about 60A per hour of operation at 12V, 
depending on the efficiency of the inverter. A 900Ah battery would let you 
run about 7.5 hours if you wanted to only use half of your battery.

You all are amazing! Ask, and ye shall receive...

-ms

Borland International
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: marc@watson.ibm.com (Marc Auslander)
Subject: Re: Traffic Lights, was Radio Checks, Coas
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:02:59 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Hawthorne, New York

Gee - I guess I didn't understand the procedure.  I though the way to
get a radio check was:

1.  Get on 16, on high power of course, and say "breaker 16, anyone out
there for a radio check."

2.  One of three things happens -

        A.  Someone yells "radio check load and clear".

        B.  The CG says "16 is a distress and hailing channel ..."

        C.  None of the above.

A or B means the radio is working.  I always thought this was one of
the best CG services available.
--


Marc Auslander       (IBM)<marc@marc.watson.ibm.com>      914 784-6699
                     (Internet)<marc@watson.ibm.com>
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:43:53 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <1992Dec21.150504.1403@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin) writes:
>In article <1gu1psINN7ht@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>
>The fact is that using the hailing channels for a radio is illegal no matter 
>how short the call is.  Further, the checks I hear don't usually end with
>"loud and clear at ----."  Isn't this just one more instance of people 
>picking and choosing what rules and laws they will obey?

I think that it *is* partly this. But I figure that it's something else, too:
it's an attempt to fix the problem fast. If you *don't* answer the
radio-check request, various people will go on trying it over and over and
over again. So here's a question: what can you do to help educate people?
You can answer: "Radio check, switch and answer 68," and then try to talk to
them perhaps. But the odds are that once they know it worked, they won't
actually make the switch. Sigh.

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: micheal@sdf.lonestar.org (T. Micheal Young)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: Best lil' ol' Pubnix in Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 16:28:55 GMT

In article <CARL.92Dec24152359@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl) writes:
>
>So, unless you leave US Coastal Waters, they (the Coast Guard) should
>not be able to board you unless they have reasonable probable cause
>(e.g. they see you picking up packages that have been dropped from an
>airplance) that you have drugs/whatever aboard.
>
>-Carl-
>

We only wish this were true.  If your vessel is registered as a United States
vessel, the Coast Guard has the right to search and sieze it whenever and 
wherever they "feel" like it.  If your vessel flys a flag other than the US
flag, then the CG does not have the right to search it outside of US territorial
waters.  Once we are afloat, we are not protected by civil, terestial law.  I am stating
all of this from memory.  I'll try to make time to find and post the 
references.
-- 


Fair winds and far places.....

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:31:17 GMT

micheal@sdf.lonestar.org (T. Micheal Young) writes:

>  If your vessel flys a flag other than the US
>flag, then the CG does not have the right to search it outside of US territorial
>waters.

This is not entirely true.  There is a doctrine of international law
known as "hot pursuit" that entitles the C.G. to stop and board any
vessel in international waters provided they begin their pursuit while
the vessel is still in territorial waters.

(This learned from an undergraduate level course in international law.
Perhaps someone else knows about the technical details.)
--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:42:51 GMT

In article <1h7d0pINNmgs@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
>> The Coast Guard originated as operators of rescue boats.
>
>	My understanding of the situation is that the Coast Guard originated
>(in the form of the "Revenue Marine") in the 1700's as a means of combating
>rum smugglers.  All things considered, their current mission of combating
>drug smugglers is probably not so far removed, in principle, from their
>original mission.  The only difference I can see is that 200 years ago, the
>mission was not to prevent the importation of an illegal substance, but just
>to ensure that the tax (user fee?) was paid on it.

   Well I thought this sounded like bunk, so I called the Coasties and asked
   about the origins of the Coast Guard.  The OOD told me that we were both
   right.  There used to be a National Lifesaving Service and the Revenuers
   (don't remember official name for them) and the Coast Guard was formed 
   when the two were combined.  So I guess hassling people in boats does 
   have a long history in the Coast Guard.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: The Perfected Boat
Date: 29 Dec 1992 01:04:23 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

There's an article by Webb Chiles in this month'c Cruising World, describing
a peculiar moment in his life: he woke up one morning and realized that 
there was nothing left to do on his boat. Everything was done. Sure, the
main might need replacing in a season or two, but aside from ordinary 
wear and tear items like that, there was nothing more he wanted to do
to improve his vessel. 

I was intrigued, but I didn't have time to finish the article. But it
did leave me wondering whether I'd like that state of affairs or not. 
I know that my "DO LIST" is a lot logner than I'd like it to be, and
a lot of the things on it are "must do" items rather than "want to do"
or "want to do eventually". But suppose I got rid of all the must-do and
want-to-do, and was left with only the "want-to-do-eventually" items. 
Would I be happy about it, or feel idle? 

I know one part of what I'd do: I'd go sailing, of course. But most of
my maintenance work tends to happen in the early AM, when the winds in my area
are light, or in the evening, after I've settled at the anchor or the mooring.
And working on little projects gives me a feeling of satsifaction and
accomplishment that sitting back and reading would not provide. Maybe it's
that damned protestant work ethic or something getting to me. 

Anyhow, just idle musings. When I described to Gerard Bras what I was planning
to do this winter/spring, he asked "Are you planning on taking a sabbatical?,"
so I guess that I'm nowhere near Mr. Chiles's state. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mshulman@genghis.borland.com (Michael Shulman)
Subject: inverter and battery use
Summary: how much power do things take?
Keywords: inverter dc battery life
Organization: Borland International
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:31:08 GMT

Hello, all:

My brother just took delivery of a Catalina 36 with 3 deep cycle 900 A/H 
batteries and an inverter. Since he's interested in "Creature Comforts", 
he's outfitted the boat with
   color tv
   vcr
   microwave oven
   AC track lights
etc.

I wanted to help him be able to estimate the amount of life he can expect 
from his batteries. I told him that since P = I * E
	where P is power in watts
	and I is current in amps
        and E is voltage,

that his running his 600W microwave for 1 hr at 110V (which takes approx 6A/
H, right), that if we estimate the efficiency of his inverter at 50% (pretty 
conservative), that he should be able to run his microwave for 37 hours, 
even using only half the charge of his batteries:

         microwave takes: 6A/H
         inverter 50% efficiency: 12A/H
         battery (50% of total): 450A/H
         so, you can get 37 hours.

But then I thought, that can't be right. Intuitively, it seems like it 
should be closer to 3 or 4 hours.

What am I doing wrong in my calculations?

And what items are going to be really expensive to run off the inverter?

Thanks!

-ms
mshulman@borland.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:48:00 EST
From: William H Parsonage <W5P@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: MacGregor 26'

I have a 21' sailboat and am considering moving up to a larger boat.  I have
seen the MacGregor 26 but never sailed her.  Is there anyone out there who
owns one or has sailing experience with the Mac 26?  I would appreciate
hearing from you.
Newsgroups: rec.boats,sci.physics
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: inverter electric lesson
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date:  3 JAN 93 11:40:09    

In article <72725@cup.portal.com>, dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) writes...
>Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu> wrote:
> 
>>mshulman@genghis.borland.com (Michael Shulman) writes:
>..
>..
>..
>>>
>>>So, the 600W microwave takes about 60A per hour of operation at 12V, 
>>>depending on the efficiency of the inverter.
> 
>>	Sigh.  I guess I went a bit overboard with my "doctor dissertation
>>in electrical engineering", but obviously it didn't sink in.  I'll try and
>>be more succinct this time.
> 
>>	2) It is totally meaningless to say something takes "60A per hour".

	Not really.  The usual unit is the AmpHour (1 amp for one hour, 2 amps
	for 30 minutes, .5A for 2 hours, etc....).  It is a useful, simplified
	approximation for the energy in a battery, ASSUMING the terminal voltage
	is constant.  (it isn't, but for a first approximation, its useful.)

	Any storage battery will have the AH figure listed, common automotive
	applications are in tho 40-50AH, my R75 uses a 15 AH, C size NiCds run
	1.5AH or so.  It IS ONLY AN Approximation, the receoverd AH will vary
	depending on the load, duty cycle, etc, but it IS widely used.

	It rather assumes a knowledege of the nominal system voltage.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass, USA	
01775				pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: omalley@kleber.ics.uci.edu (Owen O'Malley)
Subject: Celestial Navigation Question
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:11:59 GMT

I've been looking at some high level overviews of celestial
navigation. It seems that they only use the sextant to read the angle
to the horizon and establish a circle of position. Then they use a
second object (and circle of position) for a fix or running fix. I
started wondering why they don't take the bearing to the celestial
object to determine their location on the circle of position. Surely,
adding a handheld compass to a sextant wouldn't be difficult and it
would allow a fix based on a single celestial object. Is this ever
done? Is there a good reason why not or is it just tradition?

   Thanks,
     Owen O'Malley

Department of ICS  | omalley@ics.uci.edu             (ARPA)
UC Irvine          | {ucbvax|sdcsvax}!ucivax!omalley (UUCP)
Irvine, CA 92717   | oomalley@uci                    (BITNET)

--
Owen O'Malley
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jaf@nynexst.com (John Frieman)
Subject: Re: How much force needed to propel boat ?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 15:04:53 GMT

In article <1h42csINN27c@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> youngqud@ucs.cs.orst.edu writes:
>I need a ball park figure for the force needed to propel a 45 foot
>power boat, 10 foot beam, at at hull speed, 7 - 8 knots I think.

From Dave Gerr, author of THE NATURE OF BOATS, although he did not 
include the formula in the book, the horse power required is relative 
to the displacement as follows:

lbs displacement per HP = (10.665 / Speed to length ratio) ^3 
or required HP = displacement (lbs) / (10.665 / SL)^3 

That is the displacment divided by the quantity ((10.665 divided by 
the speed to length ratio) cubed).

The speed to length ratio is the speed in knots divided by the 
square root of the water line length in feet.

This is a good estimate for most small (ie. less than 100 ft.) boats.
If you want to get technical, look up a copy of THE SPEED AND POWER
OF SHIPS by Taylor.  It is the classic text on the subject.

By the way, the a reasonable maximum speed for a displacement boat
can be found by dividing 8.26 by the displacement to length ratio
raised to the 0.311 power and multiplying the result by the square 
root of the water line length. (8.26 / (DL ^ 0.311)) * sqrt(LWL)

Enjoy,

John
From: rep@thor.genrad.com (Pete Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Re: no more images in rec.roller-coaster
Date: 30 Dec 1992 07:04:16 -0500
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.genrad.com

[in response to a suggestion to put coaster pictures in
alt.binaries.pictures.misc and to post notices here]

One problem with this suggestion is that there are some sites, ours
included, which do not get the "alt.xxx" newsgroups (except alt.sources and
alt.sys.sun).  Our computer facility administration decided that there was
too much chaos and anarchy in the alt.xxx groups and it was not possible to
get only those groups that people here felt were useful (I'm not sure how
we arranged to get alt.sources, but there were a bunch of us that felt
there was a lot of good stuff we had gotten there), so they exclude ALL the
alt groups.

If there were an alternative access method such as an FTP site and perhaps
a mail-server for those without Internet access, that would be fine.

Of course, I don't know what to do with these strange format pictures on my
Sun anyhow, so it's only of academic interest at present.

	pete peterson
	rep@genrad.com
	(508)369-4400 x2478; Home: (508)256-5829 (Chelmsford, MA)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: whoa!
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:04:58 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park


Many thanks to Allyn for his recent JPEGs (regardless of the discussion
they've brought about...;-)

I finally got a chance to view vortex01 when I got home from work today,
and I must say I was surprised/impressed.  I rode the thing back in 
April of '89 (got in 6 or 7 rides on it, as well as 5 on the Beast, 5 on
the King Cobra, 6 on the Racer, and 1 on the Scooby Doo--wot a day!)
and had completely forgotten how convoluted it is.  I have a relatively
small display space which I use to scroll around the pics (320x200) and
was amazed to discover that virtually all of the inversions fit on a single
screen.  It's just not right.

I showed the pic to my sister and father and now they're talking about 
roadtripping out to Ohio sometime.  I like that idea...

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Xref: sparky rec.roller-coaster:2671 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:14594
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: Thorsten_Kitz@mk.maus.de (Thorsten Kitz)
Subject: Coaster pictures...
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/Mail 1.14D/hb
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:12:00 +0000

Hey Russell,

Russell Michael VanTassell wrote in rec.roller-coaster:

> Personally, I think it would be pretty cool -- especially since there
> seems to be a renewed interest in pictures as-well-as discussion.  We
> might see a new flock of people to emerge along with this as well, as
> news readers across the world come back with
> 'rec.roller-coaster.pictures not in .newsrc -- subscribe? [nyNY]'

Great idea. Do you post a CFD in news.groups ?

Bye for now and a nice 1993, full of great rides,

Thorsten.
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster