HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dcasson@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Dan Casson)
Subject: Getting to grappling range.
Followup-To: dcasson@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:51:51 GMT

>taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>
>I am interested in people's thoughts on how to get from kicking range to
>punching range to grappling range.
>
>Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I am fairly confident of my
>grappling superiority against my opponent in a "friendly" inter-art duel.
>Let's say, also, that I am not confident enough of my hand speed to assume
>that I will be able to catch their blows in mid air, and pull the other
>fellow into grappling range; say, rather, that I would like to actually enter
>their space and directly grapple their body, taking minimum damage upon
>entry.

To get from kicking distance to grappling distance: (1 of many)

Start your sparring match being a runner, that is everytime the other person
launchs an attack (feet or hands), move out of range of his attack.  He
then might make his attacks even deeper in distance.  Then time his kick
or punch so that when he launchs it at you, you steal the distance and jam
his attack.  Now your in grappling range.  Note: Try not to jam his 
attack with your face :-O


-- 
===========================================================================
Dan Casson			Phone: (818) 393-1284
Jet Propulsion Laboratory	Internet: dcasson@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov	
4800 Oak Grove Drive		
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Martial arts for children - what age?
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:40:23 GMT

In article <cindy.137@berkp.uadv.uci.edu> cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes:
>At what age can a child begin to benefit from taking martial arts
>classes?  
	
	Well, I think that depends on the nature of any given child.  I have
	seen kids as young as 4 years who were training and apparently having
	a good time of it.  Generally, I think it is OK for any child from 
	about 4 on up, but they must WANT to do it.  And if they lose interest
	at so young an age, I don't think they should be forced to continue.

	Also I think MA for the very young should be done more in the spirit
	of light hearted play than in serious self defense.  The SD aspects
	will develop on their own as the child grows and need not be forced,
	especially on a young spirit that is probably not ready to view the
	world in terms of life and death threats.  Make it fun and not a chore
	and the child will gradually develop an interest in the SD aspects
	of the arts.

	Age, per se' is not important.  Approach on the part of the teacher
	and interest on the part of the child, is.

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Time required to attain Black Belt
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:40:26 GMT
Organization: hah!  we don't need no steenkin' organization!
Summary: 	-=-=-=-< humor >-=-=-=-
Followup-To: if you can't figure that out, don't bother.....
Keywords: 	-=-=-=-< set humorbit > 0 >-=-=-=-


In article <eric.t.zmarzly.1-041192145506@129.74.199.139> eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu (Eric Zmarzly) writes:

>I was wondering about how long it takes different arts to attain a Black
>Belt, which is really only a beginning anyway.
>

	how much time have you got?  how much money have you got?

>Anybody?
>
>Eric 

	and, as always, i am/at:

             doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >

           -=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >--=-=-=-=-=-=-

           ".... and the best thing you ever did for me,
                 is to help me take my life less seriously....
                                it's only life, after all......"

                              closer to fine... the indigo girls
From: aaron@cse.ucsc.edu (Aaron Emigh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Test Ordeals
Date: 9 Nov 1992 18:13:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Nov8.234033.29964@reed.edu> gsinghma@reed.edu (Gaurav Singhmar) writes:
>
>In Uechi-ryu, I remember being told of the black belt test. After some  
>four years of training three days (seven or eight hours sum) a week, most  
>could achieve black-belt. It seemed like a fairly long time, but the mind  
>could fathom it. Some five hundred hours of Sanchin; legions of beautiful  
>mammoth bruises suffered on forearms, legs, stomach, during conditioning;  
>things like that, all very unpleaseant, but certainly manageable. And  
>then, the shodan test, which seemed quite brutal in its length (some four  
>or five hours I hear) and in the hard (HARD) strikes to various parts of  
>the body, to test if Sanchin could be held. It wasn't something that I  
>would have been upto at Nikkyu, but I could well imagine it.
[...]
>Does somebody know, are these myths or what? Has anyone (legends,  
>teachers, friends, children) actually been through them?

Well, when I got my shodan in Uechi-ryu (6/86), the test was a couple of
hours long, and sure, it contained plenty of hard strikes during sanchin
testing, but not all that much harder than the training you get at
ikkyu.  I can attest to the bruises on the forearms and legs, but
they're incidental and happen less as you get better conditioned.  (It's
a good idea to try to avoid too much bruising while training -- it
actually interferes with conditioning.)  The only time my stomach has
been bruised in training was when Kyohide Shinjo tested my sanchin.
Broke the skin up & down both sides of my stomach with his fingertips.
I felt vindicated for the pain I felt when I took off my gi after the
workout and saw the marks...

All in all, I'd say the Uechi-ryu dan tests (at least the ones I've
seen), while somewhat difficult, are well within the range of things
you're prepared for by your training.  If you got to nikyu, then you
were probably not more than a few month's practice away from being
prepared yourself.  I'm going in for another test in a couple of
weeks; maybe I'll have developed a different opinion afterward.  :-)

I don't know about these 48-hour tests.  I suppose it might be an
interesting experience if viewed as part of the training experience
rather than simply a rank test -- I know I wouldn't want to make that
much of an investment just for another fashion accessory like a belt
color change.

>- gaurav
>gsinghma@reed.edu

Aaron Emigh
aaron@iit.com
aaron@cse.ucsc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:15:00 +0000



> > It's not clear to me that all of those things are synonymous with "tough", but
> > I think that boxing and sumo should fit in there somewhere.
>
>Yup.  I agree.  Boxers take a hideous amount of punishment, although the
>_do_ get to wear gloves 8-).  Sumo is pretty much brute strength.  Takes
>big guys to do it...


No way is Sumo just brute stength! There is a high degree of skill in there
as well. Just because they are big guys does not necessarily mean they rely
purly on strength.


Anyway true "toughness" is a mental thing, not much to do with physical
strength.


Bill Burgar.
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:18:59 GMT
Subject: Re: 10th Dan
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>I have been told that the rank of 10th dan is not held by anyone in the
>world and has not been for 100's of years, as my instructor is 5th dan
>and the Kancho-Sensei of Chidokan is 7th dan, I find it difficult to accept
>that there is not someone out of 3 billion people who hold a rank three
>grades higher. 

It all depends...

In some styles, 10th Dan is only awarded posthumously.  In other styles,
the style's GrandMaster is automatically a 10th Dan.

Because of the above, when all the styles are combined, there are many 10th
Dans (probably too many).

Ray

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:36:55 GMT
	<1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>
	<1992Nov5.204304.29380@oracle.us.oracle.com>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com's message of 5 Nov 92 20:43:04 GMT


In article <1992Nov5.204304.29380@oracle.us.oracle.com> glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:

   In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
   >
   >     Each style was profiled, Karate being lumped together as one style.  Also,
   >certain individuals (2 Americans, a Brit and a couple of Japanese) were profiled.
   >The film followed each man's training methods, style, etc.  
   >     ANYWAY......the Karate stylists were clearly dominant.  The representatives
   >from China did pretty well, considering Kung-Fu has always had a bad rap as being
   >useless in competition vs. other arts.  The Thai boxers did as expected--they 
   >
   >For the record, I study WTF TKD.
   >
   >
   >|)  Joe
   >  
   Perhaps you haven't seen any real Chinese martial artists, other
   than those from movies. Come to challenge my master or ask your
   master to challenge my master, and count how long before you are
   on the ground.


OOOOOOO!!!  How STUDLY!

Please, George, will you flex for me?

*snicker*

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Preston <ASDXPLR@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Aikido Schools?
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:58:00 GMT

I have been involved with several different types of arts,
and have been reading up on Aikido. I think that it has
all the elements that I am looking for in a Martial Art.
My question is: Is there a list someplace that ranks the
Aikido schools or just a list of them? I am in Oklahoma.

Thanks for the help..
Preston
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido Black Belt tests
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:10:18 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: kxs5829@ultb

In article <92312.200850GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU <GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Perhaps I have a strange attitude regarding rank tests, but frankly I
>do not feel that a test really proves anything.  Being a university
>prof by profession (:-) I can attest that some days people test better
>than other days.  I feel this extends to MA tests as well.

	I disagree.  A test is very important.  It indicates how this person
can perform whatever is on the test under pressure.  If a person needs to use
their skills to defend themselves, an attacker is not going to say "Oh, it's
obviously a bad day for you, I'll hit you tomorrow."

	The whole point is, your techniques are only as good as your worst day.
Akin to the saying, "A chain is only as strong as the weakest link."

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
From: alex.soto@analog.com (Alex Soto)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Weapons in martial arts...
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:05:55 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Analog Devices, Inc.
Originator: soto@thor



Hi,
	I am pretty new to this group, and would like to know a little about
which martial arts teach what weapons.  For example, what does aikido teach,
what about wu-tang or others?  I took a little of Tae kwon do, but I've 
never heard of it teaching any weapons.  In fact, don't the very words mean
something about hands?  I am in the Northeast (Boston to be exact), and I'd
like to pick a well rounded art to begin my training.  I am a beginner, so I
don't know too much and would appreciate some advice from others.  If anyone
else is from Boston, feel free to tell me about what you like of your art / 
school.
	Post or email me.  Thanks.
		Mystic

(alex.soto@analog.com)
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Jujitsu
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:20:40 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>   Personally I would pick a name for my system that was a correct 
>   useage of Japanese.  I would make it so that the Japanese were
>   empressed with my choice of words.  My feeling is if you are 
>   going to do something that represents a foreign culture you had
>   better do it better than the natives or you are not going to be
>   taken seriously.

	My feelings exactly.  It's a simple matter of integrity
	and credibility.  Mis-spelling something badly on
	your shingle in crayon would have a similar effect.

	Doesn't mean they don't know what you're doing in some
	area, just that their professionalism is lacking.
	
>Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
>Obukan Kendo Club
>Portland Oregon USA

						todd
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                             |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Self-Def Courses more Harm than Good?
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:17:35 GMT
	<6732@news.duke.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: bex@acpub.duke.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 01:22:45 GMT


In article <6732@news.duke.edu> bex@acpub.duke.edu (becky) writes:

		I see a theme in this discourse on Self defense which is inaccurate.  THere
   seems to be a sense that women get overconfident after they take a short course
   in self defense.  This is not true at all.  Most women are extremely skeptical
   that they can do anything to defend themselves at all and the fact that they 
   are attending a seminar is a mark of courage.  

[snip]

   ...believe me women who have been taught their whole lives that they
   are physically inferior beings do not overestimate themselves after 4 short
   hours.  

I don't think there's a danger of them overestimating THEMSELVES...I 
think the danger may be in, perhaps, overestimating the effectiveness
of a technique that they have seen to work, but in a contrived 
situation.  

   Instead of being discouraged women need to be 
   encouraged to defend themselves and one way to do this is to tell them that 
   they really can learn self defense. No it doesn't take a long time to learn the
   physical skills but it might take a long time to get the confidence to
   use them.                 Becky


I have to disagree with this a little bit.  It depends on what you mean
by "learn".  If you're dealing with an intelligent person who has at 
least an intuitive grasp of physics, especially as it relates to their
own body, they can "learn" all the factual information there is about
the mechanics of a simple move, like a reverse punch, in a matter of
minutes.  But that's intellectual knowledge, not body-knowledge.  
Intellectual knowledge is inadequate all by itself, particularly as
regards self-defense, because the intellectual reasoning process is
just too slow.  In the course of a four-hour self-defense seminar, 
you can "teach" someone a number of useful techniques, but they will
not be able to use them effectively without continued practice.  And
people know this, at least on some level.  I don't think that a 
graduate of a 4-hour course is overconfident -- I think that, on
some level, they're very much aware of their vulnerability.  But there
is only one way to build confidence, and that is to build skills 
in which you can have confidence.  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu (William T. Rankin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Self-Def Courses more Harm than Good?
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:50:46 GMT
Organization: Duke University EE Dept.; Durham, NC
Originator: dcg@ee.egr.duke.edu


In article <1992Nov7.085152.16420@csc.ti.com>, a908301@server1.tiuk.ti.com writes:

> So self defence seminars have a very limited benefit, it helps 
> the student realise that something can be done to defend
> themselves, but they should also be made to realise that they 
> need regular training to stand any chance of putting techniques
> into practise in a "live" situation.

Okay, okay, now someone posted the standard statement:

   "Hey, self defense classes can be useful"

and the populance of Wreck.MA replies in the standard fashion:

   "No they really aren't, not without continuous training...."

Let me relate something that happened to me the other night.

It was three of four in the morning, and I was working on a project
down in the engineering library.  My partner said that she was heading
back to her dorm, so I offered to walk her over there.  On the way to
her dorm, I started heading down a path (well lit) that went through a 
short section of woods (Becky: you know which woods) She stopped me
and told me that we were not going to walk through the woods.   I
assured her that there would be no problem (mild touch of testosterone
poisoning here) but she very firmly stated that we would be walking the 
other way back.  So we did. 

A week earlier, a male student had been accosted and raped in that area.
That fact didn't even enter my mind that week.

My friend who I walked back to her dorm proved to me that she 
knew *much* more about self-defense than I did.  And she didn't get
it from working out every day.  She got it from using her mind and 
thinking.

I guess SD comes down to knowing your own limitations and not fooling
yourself about what you can and cannot do.

-bill
From: ajmy@festival.ed.ac.uk (A Myles)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:25:38 GMT

I couldn't agree more about the fact that the world is full
of bull-sh**ters under the "10th dan, badass karate spell".

But lets not tar everyone with the same brush...

According to the introduction to H. Kanazawa's "SKI Kumite Kyohan"
Shinkin Gima holds the rank of 10th dan in the Shotokan school.

While on the subject of "past-it old men who can't beat-up the youngsters"
and Kanazawa Sensei, perhaps you would care to engage in jiyu-kumite with him.

At 64 (65 now?) he has a physique which few men of my age (21) could
match and FAR more speed, power and technical ability as well. This is hardly
surprising from a 9th Dan, ex JKA champion (done first with broken arm) who is
the world chief instructor to the SKI. IKKEN HISATSU (sp.) is certainly
the order of the day at that level.

His knowledge of karate and ability is understandably mind-boggling,
I speak from several examples of first hand experience.

The JKA too have many highly graded "old fogeys" (no disrespect intended)
who would give most "jumping-spinnning-kicking-flashy-do-complete
with-coloured-satin-gi" young men, frankly, a stiff kicking - without
even breaking sweat. (look at the instructors of the JKA instructors
course)

Perusal of most serious martial arts periodicals .e.g. (advert mode on)
"Fighting arts international" (advert mode off) reveals similar true
masters in the 55-65 range  in other styles, though obviously I have never
trained with any of them.

This is not to say either that I am trying to elevate them to some
poistion of god-like invincibility. I just wouldn't rate mr average's
chances against them too highly.

Anyway, I do agree with the call for and end to this badass karate
theme since "my sensei can give your sensei a square go and has a
thicker, blacker belt with his name stiched in real gold on it"
is hardly in the spirit of budo.

And reading all the follow-ups makes my life even less productive... :)

Andy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Myles.				ajmy@ee.ed.ac.uk
EdUni Elect. Eng.			031-650-5665

"Your commanding officer would have to be mad not to give you two
weeks holiday" "Well then, Sir, may I have two weeks holiday?"
"No - meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeahp!"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 13:31:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.183134.5126@athena.mit.edu> ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross) writes:
>Once upon a time at the beginning of the thread, I wrote:
>
>> Far and away, the hardest art is living... living at one's full capacity, 
>> using all of your natural powers:  full use of the mind, being in touch with 
> [snip]
>The fact that no one responded (except for a nice email msg from one person)
>can mean a couple of things:  (a) it could be living proof of the assertion in
>the last paragraph, (b) it could mean that I was so off base that no one even
>wanted to touch it, (c) it could be that is was just overlooked, or (d) it 
>could mean nothing, really.  :-)

	Sorry to leave you hanging out there with no support, guy...

	Yep. I agree that living is the hardest art. I don't know if "living at
one's full capacity" is necessarily how I'd phrase it - it might imply a
high energy, go for broke, do everything before you keel over style of life,
which is not necessarily the traditional context.

	When I used to fence, I'd get on the strip for a bout, and everything
would become much more intense, every motion counted, and concentration had to
be very focussed. The same would happen if I were on my mountain bike, on a
suicidal downhill, just an eyeblink from wiping out.
	My interpretation is that one should be able to live with that kind of
intensity even if all you are doing is "chopping wood and carrying water".
	Every moment of life should be lived fully, whether it's something that
is conventionally considered "boring" like sitting around and monitoring your
breathing, or if it's something more stimulating, like having wild, passionate
sex.

>Whaddya think?

	I agree (for the most part), but others might not.

	Stephen
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts