HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: End of NeXT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:44:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.111135.29283@cs.tu-berlin.de> marcel@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) writes:
>dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>
>>    postscript despite the fact that their own laser printer stuffs rasters
>>    and despite the fact that raster conversion is simple (that is, support
>>    for non-postscript printers must be hacked in rather then go through
>>    NeXT's .PPD files).  Consider the fact that it is certainly possible to
>
>PPDs only describe PostScript printers.  Also, 3.0 supports some Dot matrix
>printers.  Why not more?  I'd hazard the guess that it's because there exists
>a third party solution, called Dots.  (Actually, I've one in the works myself,
>better of course,  but have more pressing projects.)


	An interesting prospect, which raises a question:  what
	parallel printers support serial?  Imagewriter, I guess--
	but any of the good ones? (Epson, Alps)   (I know the 
	DJ500 and 550C do, though..)

	Most laser printers do.  does DOTS support the LJ2, 3, 4?


>>    Frankly, I don't give a damn about NeXT's laser printer.
>>    price/performance arguments aside, there is simply nothing special
>>    about it that I can see that isn't possible with other printers using a
>>    more standard interface.  All this crap about it being 'just an engine'
>>    is just that...crap.  There is no reason to require one to spout
>
>That's a strong statement,and as far as I know, "just crap".  The NLP is
>"just an engine", the reason you have to have a custom interface is 
>because there is NO memory on board, therefore you have to feed the
>laser engine with an absolutely CONSTANT DATA RATE.  Just high speeds
>are not enough.  By the way, the interface is not parallel.
>
>Question:  can you print full page graphics on an HP LaserJet with
>no memory?


	Doesn't matter.  You can get a 300DPI IIIP *with* the processor,
	engine and enough memory to do full page graphics for less 
	than the edu cost of a NeXT laser printer.  If you want 
	600, it'll be about $350 more then the NeXT, but that'll 
	come down.  

	If these companies can offer *smart* printers with memory
	for about the same price as the NeXT LP, doesn't that say
	something about NeXT's policy towards it's customers?
	(read: price gouging.  they could sell the sucker for $400
	and still be making 100% profit)

-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tacchi@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Mark G. Tacchi)
Subject: Re: What is with the advertising in NeXTworld?
Keywords: advertising sexism unlabeled-RTF-posts
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:35:41 GMT

In <C0Mwr2.1pA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens) writes:

>
>If the product can't be sold on it's own merits, I guess those folks feel they need some sex-boost to make it sell.  However, what they fail to notice is that if it can't sell on it's own merits, there's no reason for anyone to buy it.  If it's that good, show screen shots, show panels associated with the program, show the program in action, not some sexist drivel.
>

We must understand that what advertisers are trying to do is put us in a state
that we feel strong about, sex, and then associate this strong feeling with
their product.  It happens all over in advertising and is not just with sex.

Michael Jackson worked on some ads with Pepsi and what they tried and succeeded
at doing was link up the feeling that a large populous gains when listening to
MJ and transfer that feeling to their product.  This isn't really apparent
until you become aware of what they are trying to do and is actually 
interesting in how the human mind will capture and associate this feeling to
something that was previously regarded with nuetral or negative associations.

So my point is that this advertising is very effective and it doesn't really
have to be related to sex.  For instance, what if Hershey's introduced a
new Chocolate bar that was entirely designed on a NeXT!?,  from packaging to
ingredients.  But not only that their commercials have some zany guy showing
off they designs on a color NeXT station.  If that doesn't get you, it's in
the shape of a NeXT station! :-)  You might certainly pick this bar up when
it's sitting next to old crunchy at the corner store, wouldn't you?

-Mark
-- 
Mark G. Tacchi                                    tacchi@next01.cc.umanitoba.ca
  Unix Support Group                                        (NeXT Mail Welcome)
  University of Manitoba Computer Services
 "My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: HP/NeXT Deal
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:27:08 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

(Quoted from the New York Times, 1/6/92, C1)

Hewlett and Next Hold Talks
Steven Jobs May Get Support for Software


	Steven P. Jobs may have found a way to move his struggling  
workstation company to center stage in the desktop computer industry after  
being written off by many computer executives.
	Next Inc., Mr. Job's five-year-old maker of workstations, is now in  
discussions with the Hewlett-Packard Company over licensing NeXT's NeXTstep  
software technology, according to three executives familiar with the  
negotiations...

	...The current discussions between Next and Hewlett-Packard were  
initially not limited to NeXT's software, which is widely viewed as the  
industry's most innovatie.  Originally, the talks included the possibility  
of a Hewlett-Packard investment in NeXt and the possibility that Next might  
use a version of Hewlett-Packard's microprocessor in a future version of its  
workstation.
	A broader relationship has apparently been ruled out by  
Hewlett-Packard executives.  But some sort of deal is seen as crucial for  
Next, which has never reported a profit despite its widely admired  
technology...

	...An announcement of a relationship between the two companies could  
come as soon as this month, according to one of the executives familiar with  
the discussions, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity.  But  
Hewlett-Packard is now considering a variety of directions for its computer  
business and might decide instead to adopt Microsoft's NT operating system  
or software from IBM and Apple Computer's joint venture, Taligent...

	...Next's Nextstep software is generally acknowledged to be  
substantially ahead of operating systems still under development by industry  
leaders like IBM, Apple, and Microsoft, whose new software is not expected  
to reach the market until later this year or in 1994...

	...There are obvious risks for Hewlett-Packard.
	Despite receiving critical approval for his products, Mr. Jobs has  
not been successful in moving beyond specialized niches and selling his  
distinctive balck workstations to broader personal computer and workstation  
audiences.
	NexT, whose workstations are based on Motorola Inc. microprocessors,  
has begun adapting its software to also work with computers based on the  
Intel Corporation's chips.  But that efffort has been delayed several times,  
and an intel version of Next's products is not expected  to be commercially  
available until the middle of this year.
	There has been increasing speculation in Silicon Valley that without  
a major partner like Hewlett-Packard, Next will not be able to survive...



etc.  Sorry about the lower-case x's...just printing it as I see it.

--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
From: khare@cco.caltech.edu (Rohit Khare)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100% unfounded NRW rumor/speculation!!!
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:46:02 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

Now, this Hummingbird speculation seems really interesting, especially
in re: the front-page Business section article in the New York Times Wed.
on "Hewlett and Next Hold Talks", wherein officials denied that any talks 
included PA-RISC, but not the broader 'did not include hardware'. Also,
I heard on the street that a customer challenged his NeXT rep with a list of
all the 'obvious' chip choices, and basically was told it wasn't one of those.
Also, given the general good cheer of some of the rank-and-file at NeXT and
NeXTWorld, it's likely they'll have something good up their sleeve for Expo
in May; I mean, the initial 88k project dates back to *before* the NeXTStations,
so it's a good bet that NeXT has the multiprocessing expertise on hand to make
use of any chips at all.

Rohit Khare
From: root@aunext1.amd.com (Operator)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: A rosy forecast for 93
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:36:20 GMT
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <Jan01.223703.26806@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>  
randall@redfish.atmos.colostate.edu (Dave Randall) writes:
> An optimistic forecast for 93
> 
> Here is a rosy view of how NeXT will fare in 1993. Note: I have no inside  
> information; the predictions below are based on an imaginative reading of  
> netnews and the media. There is at least some (apparent) basis for each item.
> 
> 1. Faster 040 machines are introduced early in the year. Prices on slabs are  
> cut. An inexpensive color upgrade for the cube is announced, and it becomes  
> clear that the cube has a future. ND officially dies, though.
> 
> 2. NeXTSTEP 486 is released almost on time, and is advertised extravagantly,  
by  
> NeXT standards. An introductory promotion is announced. Jerry Pournelle  
reviews  
> NeXTSTEP 486 in his Byte column. Media coverage is broad and very  
enthusiastic.  
> NeXTSTEP 486 is promoted as the "high-end" PC software with snob appeal -- a  
> Lexus 400SC to Microsoft's Taurus (NT). 
> 
> 3. A NeXT-Cannon luggable (brief-case sized) machine is announced, with a  
> large, high-resolution color LCD screen that wows the industry. 
> 
> 4. The NRW turns out to be based on multiple HP PA-RISC chips. Upgrades are  
> available for at least some of the existing machines. NeXTSTEP is also made  
> available for use on HP 700 series workstations. HP thus takes advantage of  
the  
> opportunity that IBM threw away. The NeXT - HP deal is widely hailed as a  
> marriage of the best software and the best hardware available. 
> 
> 5. A port of NeXTSTEP to SPARC is announced, and reaches the market late in  
the  
> year. Sales are brisk. Further ports are planned (SGI, PowerPC).
> 
> 6. NeXTSTEP 486 achieves sales of 250,000 units in 1993, mostly to business  
and  
> government.
> 
> 7. NeXT's revenues reach $350 million for 1993. An IPO is planned for early  
> 1994.

In light of the recent Open Systems Today article, I'd say
your predictions (for the most part) look pretty accurate :-)

Ronald Pomeroy
Advanced Micro Devices
CAM Applications Group
Austin, Texas
rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jcorallo@ccsi.com (P. John Corallo)
Subject: Re: NeXT should improve, not eliminate, its hardware line
Reply-To: John@ccsi.com
Organization: Crystal Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:31:39 GMT

I believe the hardware line could become a viable machine with only a few  
changes:
	- Use a Serial Chip Set that can do 64K or 128K synchronous 
	- Put in a real SCSI-2 chip set, not just a connector
	- Switch to a 32-Bit Ethernet Chip Set
These changes would help alleviate some of the bottlenecks we run into on  
the NeXT.  List Price the machine for $3,500 and $4,000 for Mono and Color  
respectively.  Give the resellers some room to work with and do not be so  
willing to take direct sales and Developer discount packages.  These  
prices would give NeXT a more than resaonable profit, and the lost margins  
would be easily made up in volume of units sold.  As a reseller, we could  
easily quadruple our sales if the prices were cut between 1/3 and 1/2.   
Turn the NeXT sales and SEs into a reseller and large corporate support  
team.  This would let NeXT use the potential of it's resllers as the  
buffer between them and their customers and not have to worry about  
end-user support and sales.  This in turn would give a greater market  
share and make the machine more profitable to produce software for and  
offer services on.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT (processor comparison)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:34:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.220545.22030@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:
>>> Your commentary is out of date.  Look at the NEW new HP's. ie the 735 and  
>>755.  
>>> They beat the alpha's, and at only 99 MHZ - alpha is good, but PA RISC is  
>>> better..


	The Alpha probably has a better chance at longetivity, but I'm
	happy that DEC and HP are both doing well.. (Not to mention the 
	gain in chip manufacturing that the US is having)..


>The 182 MHz Alpha systems are faster than the 99 MHz HP systems, and the
>upcoming 200 MHz systems will be another 10% faster.  But HP is working on
>new systems, as well. I predict that there will not be a time in 1993 in
>which Alpha workstations are as much as 50% faster than HP at the high end,
>yet DEC marketeers continue to befuddle people with that number.


	What about price/performance?  

	(Also, what are these CPU's costing in lots of 1000?)


>By the way, the 150 MHz Alpha workstations were announced on the same day
>in November as their 99 MHz betters from HP.  This was after a year of
>vaporous marketing from DEC that claimed they had a chip that was twice as
>fast as any chip from the competition (e.g. talking about 200 MHz Alpha chips


	150?  99?  200 mhz??  Sometimes I think I'm misreading.  I remember
	the joy in upgrading an H8 to 2 mhz from 1.


-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tbrown@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown)
Subject: Re: What is with the advertising in NeXTworld?
Keywords: advertising sexism unlabeled-RTF-posts
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:39:55 GMT

In article <C0pqvH.BJ2@ccu.umanitoba.ca> tacchi@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Mark G. Tacchi) writes:

>Michael Jackson worked on some ads with Pepsi and what they tried and succeed
>at doing was link up the feeling that a large populous gains when listening to
>MJ and transfer that feeling to their product.  This isn't really apparent
>until you become aware of what they are trying to do and is actually 
>interesting in how the human mind will capture and associate this feeling to
>something that was previously regarded with nuetral or negative associations.
>

Never really thought about it *that* way.  Maybe thats why I HATE Pepsi so
much.  I mean I am a severe Coke Addict (the kind that comes in those little
Red Cans....) so you'd think that I could at least force some Pepsi down my
throat when dying of thirst. But...I just can't stand the stuff.

Oh...so when's Hershey coming out with the new bar?  I'll buy enough to gain
about 10 pounds or so.....

>-Mark
>-- 
>Mark G. Tacchi                                   tacchi@next01.cc.umanitoba.ca
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Brown		tbrown@cis.ohio-state.edu
			tbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: matthews@ecfa.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael C. Matthews)
Subject: Re: Buffalo Bills Analogy
Summary: Oh no, not again...
Reply-To: matthews@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA/JSC Engineering Computation Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:01:20 GMT

In article <29277@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kurhajet@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Kurhajetz) writes:
>I was just musing that perhaps with all the talk about doom + gloom
>maybe NeXT could use the Buffalo Bills Football team ( down by
>30-some points and still coming back to win it against the
>Houston Oilers ) as an example of what can happen when you believe 
>in yourself and have some talented people. Just a thought.

Please... some of us are trying to forget.  We're never going
to hear the end of this, are we?

--
Mike Matthews, ex-Tether Dude +------------->   matthews@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov
"Had the Shuttle on a String"  \_ Now accepting NeXTMail via KlugeNet(TM)!
Lockheed-ESC                  |  
Houston, TX                   |          *** WILL HACK FOR FOOD ***
From: shuque@spectre.sas.upenn.edu (Shumon Huque)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP development opportunities
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:42:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1ikce5INN217@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell) writes:
>
>In article <PFKEB.93Jan8080725@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> pfkeb@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Paul F. Kunz) writes:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:10:21 GMT, jcorallo@ccsi.com (P. John Corallo) said:
>>
>>> Do not put the down payment on the boat quite yet, consider the source of  
>>> that quote is from VP of a major NeXT consulting firm.  Right now their  
>>                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>   I have the impression that Pencom (the firm refered to) was in
>>business as a UNIX consulting firm long before they got involved with
>>NeXT consulting.   In fact, isn't their co-Xist product a result of
>>consulting contract with some clients?
>
>Paul's impression seems correct.  Pencom apparently started as a mainframe
>consultant before 1970, I believe, and moved into Unix in the 70's.  It was
>looking for a Unix system for internal development purposes and chose NeXT from
>among the many choices, so it has added NeXT to its list of Unix platforms.
>

In one of their recent ad's for programmers, the state:

>"Pencom has been involved with NeXT on many levels -- as a customer,
a product developer and as a co-bidder on several projects," said Ed
Taylor, President of Pencom Software.  "We are excited to embark upon
a whole new relationship with NeXT through our expanded services."

Pencom Software is a division of Pencom Systems Incorporated, a New
York-based firm providing software engineering and manpower resources
to Fortune 500 companies and leading computer firms since 1973.
Currently the largest recruiting firm specializing in the UNIX/Open
Systems market, Pencom employs over 500 people and maintains a large
heterogeneous network of workstations including more than 50 NeXT
machines.


--
Shumon Huque
shuque@spectre.sas.upenn.edu
-- 
Shumon  Huque                          Computer Science & Engineering
410 S. 43rd Street                     University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104                 (215) 387-2494
Internet: shuque@quantum.sas.upenn.edu (NeXTmail is OK)
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: End of NeXT
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:44:15 GMT
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.

In article <1993Jan4.111135.29283@cs.tu-berlin.de> marcel@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) writes:
>dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>>    non-NeXT printers to use the serial port since no parallel port is
>>    available.  This results in potentially poor performance for non-NeXT
>>    printers the fault of which is the NeXT, not the printer.
>
>Yes, I would like to have a parallel port, too.  But do remember that
>Sun just added one recently (I don't know about the other workstations)
>and Macs still don't have them.

NeXT adding a parallel port would be silly.  It would not be worth the
effort and expense as it would be useful to less than 10% of NeXT's
current users muchless it's current sales.  TCP/IP or IPX-NetWare
print spooling over ethernet is definitely the way to go.  Not only is
it fast, it's accessable by all machines on the net without burdening
the machine it's attached to.  While I can't say if NeXTSTEP Release 3
supports TCP/IP printing over ethernet (I can't get it to work, it
worked in 2.1....), it does print over IPX/NetWare to our LJIV quite
well except that FrameMaker refuses to download fonts and that the
LJIV is machanically a piece of crap (it jams and freezes
_constantly_), but that's not NeXTSTEP's fault.

If you absolutely need a parallel port, you can get SCSI<->Parallel
boxes for just about every kind of parallel interface.

While the NLP may seem like old hat being 400 dpi, it's still priced
fairly well for a 400 dpi printer and is still faster than any laser
printer that costs less than $12,000 or so.  While our LJIV can move
blank paper through it's engine faster than our NeXT printers, it's
still dog slow when it comes to RIP'ing compared to a non-turbo NeXT.
It sure prints nicely though....


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com      | "We cannot dwell in the time that is to come,
Andrew Loewenstern       |  lest we lose our now for a phantom of our
Cube Technologies, Inc.  |  own design." - Erendis
0000000701B61D1ADF0DFC9C16185CEA055200000007EB4A9FEB1922065D471A89E905B5
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gerben@rna.indiv.nluug.nl
Subject: Re: Richard Page resigns ...
Organization: G.R.O.S.S.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:18:58 GMT

In article <1io0au$oi5@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Izumi  
Ohzawa) writes:
> From San Francisco Chronicle Business Section B2, Jan 9, 93.
> 
> Co-Founder Resignes Post At Next Inc.
> 
> Richard  Page, a co-founder with Steven Jobs of the computer maker
> Next Inc., resigned as general manager of hardware yesterday,
> increasing speculation that the company was moving to become
> a software publisher.

The umpteenth resignation...

What is going on here? I hope NeXT understands that uncertainty about company  
policies is hurting them bad, they will make a public statement on their  
intended policy.

I wonder if NeXT hardware will still be built in a year from now.

NeXT, make a statement!

--Gerben
-- 
Gerben Wierda                 Tel. (+31) 35 833539
  "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."
  From the Talmud(?), rephrased in Lewis Carroll, "Alice in Wonderland".
From: tim@apple.com (Tim Olson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100% unfounded NRW rumor/speculation!!!
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:23:30 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Organization: Apple Computer Inc. / Somerset

In article <1ii4tdINNd77@shelley.u.washington.edu>,
dayne@byron.u.washington.edu (Dayne Miller) wrote:
> 
> What does anyone know about the secret chip project by HP known only by the 
> code-name Hummingbird? Is this a big deal? Could it have *anything* to do
> with NeXT?!?!

Hummingbird isn't really a secret -- HP gave a presentation on it at the
last Microprocessor Forum.

"Hummingbird" is the codename for the PA7100 series for low-cost
applications.  Major features are:

	- integrated CPU, FPU, memory controller
	- connects directly to standard DRAM & SRAM
	- 2-way superscalar, 2 integer ALUs
	- on-chip "multimedia" processing functions (graphics ops)
	- up to 66MHz operation w/ 12ns SRAMs

     -- Tim Olson
        Apple Computer Inc. / Somerset
        (tim@apple.com)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy