HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Splitting up s.c.b and debate on Uk.* groups going international
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:37:15 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:

- In article <1992Nov16.104324.22424@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy
- >In article <R060TB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
- >
- >>  Let's look at this seriously, and Guy, thanks for the motion of support.
- >
- >Oh my God...
- >
-
- No, don't worry - just give the little rascal some more things to
- do.  We need a really NICE ballot, with graphics.  Maybe sound
- as well.  Bar charts, pie charts, demographics, lists of credentials,
- we NEED all this Dave.  Can you have something put together in a few
- weeks?
-
 Sue, I did manage to put a ballot together in r.a.dw, and in the interest of
all I am NOT the polling officer.  Given recent subject on the matter, once a
polling officer can come forward, a VERY FORMAL CFV and CFD has to take place.
It would be up to the polling officer to publish the ballot to all uk.* groups,
soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic and news.* groups.
 In essence, before the year is out, splitting and internationalizing the
groups could become a reality.

  BTW, I love the debate about FTPT.  Keep it up, I am now convinced that an
Australian or New Zealand model has to be adopted.
-


Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
American (n) - A person resident or born on the Continient of America
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Date: 16 Nov 1992 01:44:43 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>In article <0S4SB5SX@cc.swarthmore.edu> ment@cs.swarthmore.edu (Andrew Ment) writes:
>>Crime in New York is bad, but really it isn't as bad as most people paint it,
>>especially tourists who, reasonably, tend to feel more threatened then they
>>really are.
>
>My father had to visit someone in New York once and walked half a mile
>from the subway to their office. When he got there he was told that he
>had done a very silly thing and was very lucky not to have been mugged.
>
	You and your father should not believe everything you are told.
Many of the yuppie/white businessmen who work downtown all day and 
clear out by 6 have paranoid views of what the city is really like based
on their insular lives in the 'burbs. 

>>I think that it's people who come from extra safe places who get shocked by
>>New York.
>
>On the contrary, it's people from New York who can't imagine a city where
>one doesn't have to take daily precautions against extreme violence.

	There are people from Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Djakarta, 
Medellin, Bogota, Lima, Calcutta, Cairo, Moscow, and Washington, DC
who live in cities of near equal to greater danger. You _are_ 
comparatively 'extra' safe in Britain. Life is _not_ as raw in
northern Europe (I'd forgotten to mention Palermo in the list above) 
as it is in the urban centers of _most_ of the rest of the world.
--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater)
Subject: Re: British foods
Originator: kjc7435@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:52:38 GMT

I have a few addresses.  Please send me e-mail and I will forward them
on to you.  

Miss K. Cater.
e-mail:"kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Farewell, Sleep....
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:18:49 GMT

Rejoice, ye makers of midnight oil, ye purveyors of power, ye kings
of kilowatt-hours.  Your profits are assured.

The Bedside Guardian has arrived.

--
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Church unity and party unity (was Re: Catholic/Anglican faith)
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:27:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.142921.6835@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

>The problem with the CofE is that it contains all sorts. [...]

>If, like the Catholic Church, you have built a set of
>rituals around the former belief, it is surely offensive to
>give communion to those who don't agree with it. 

I've been biting my tongue on this one for ages, Matthew, but...

How can you be arguing vehemently on one front against the
top-down dogmatic authoritarian model of political parties,
and yet be arguing equally vehemently on another front for
the top-down dogmatic authoritarian practices of the (Roman)
Catholic Church?
--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada,sci.research.careers
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Canadian free speech in action
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:11:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.164710.10976@cunews.carleton.ca>, ahall@library1.library.carleton.ca (Aliso writes...
>um.....soc.l.godfrey.no.culture.at.all?

From a Canadian?  From Ottawa??  From Carleton???  No culture!!  I spent
more than two years holed up in an office in Colonel By for lack of culture
in your awful country!

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Subject: Re: The Maastricht vote (was Re: Dog in House of Parliament)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:57:24 GMT

In article <7176@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk>, martin@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Martin Gorman) writes:
|> [re replacement PMs]
|> 
|> >Yes, but who?  There's no obvious Thatcherite candidate waiting
|> >in the wings.
|> >
|> I can think of two quite mind-boggling outsiders: Jeffrey Archer and
|> Cecil Parkinson. Or are they both lords now? That's even more mind
|> boggling. Does being a peer and eligable for the house of lords 
|> automatically stop you being a prime minister?

There's nothing to stop a peer from being prime minister, though the
only such candidates I can remember in recent times (Home in '63 and
Hogg whenever it was that he wanted to take over the Tory party while
in opposition) both resigned their peerages.  It's apparently felt
that it would be bad form to have a PM in the Lords.

|> How about Richard Branson for the next amatuer to slime up the ladder?

A likely story - does he have any political ambition, anyway?
--
Robin (come back John Drummond) Fairbairns       rf@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge  CB2 3QG, UK
"They had twelve years to lay in wait for us" - Bush supporter on Nov 4
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:16296 soc.culture.canada:8760 sci.research.careers:1540
From: th2_oate@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada,sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Poor old Lawrence Godfrey...
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:15:38 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

(Chris Passier) writes:-

>|>So much for free speech in God's own country!  Anway, their attempt has 
>|>failed, and if I were to stop using...rant...rave...
>|>
>|>Laurence
>|>

> I'm new to this group but.... is this guy for real!?!?

Yes.

Imagine being stuck in a lift for 2 hours with Lawrence Godfrey...

-- 
****************************************************************************** 
* Tom Oates (Univ. of West of England) * DISCLAIMER:I speak only for myself. * 
* Email to: th2_oate@uk.ac.uwe.csd     * PGP 2.0 Key available upon request. *
******************************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15929 alt.folklore.urban:28675
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Can the Prime Minster be Catholic?
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:06:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
In article <1992Nov10.095942.12097@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>> If you believe there is "one holy catholic and apostolic
>> church" then why remain a member of a separate church that
>> deliberately split off from that one holy catholic church in

>Well it's not our fault if some members of the one holy catholic and
>apostolic church don't believe that we are all really Christians,

>(Well it's no more biased than your post, Matthew...)

My post was a deliberate wind-up in reply to a wind-up post. I
think it's well accepted that when people owing loyalty to the
See of Peter (to use a neutral term) say "Catholic" they mean
what people owing loyalty to the See of George Carey but not
liking it very much call "Roman Catholic", and neither side
winds the other up about it. The only thing that the Anglos
don't like is when they ask the RCs why they can't have
communion, and the RCs have to reply "if we let you lot in,
we'd have to let in those Bible-thumping semi-Calvinists
from the Evangelically-inclined church with the lurid dayglo
posters outside as well".

Actually, I really wish I could square myself to the
Anglo-Catholic arguments, since I prefer the atmosphere of
Anglo-Catholicism to the modern RC Church, but I simply can't -
however much I try to I still see their case as completely
lacking in logic. As G.K.Chesterton put it in justification
of his conversion to Roman Catholicism, if you moved out
from your father's house because you disagreed with his
practice of wine-drinking and keeping Greek statues, but in
time slowly introduced wine-drinking and Greek statues into
your own, isn't the only honest thing to admit you were wrong
about the old man?

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Subject: Anyone know BBC  World service frequencies ?
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:30:07 GMT


IU'm posting this for a friend of mine in the Delaware/Philadelphia area.
He's looking for short wave radio frequencies to pick up the BBC WOrld  
SErvice, specifically sports programmes.   If anyone can help could
they e-mail him direct on the following address

	meenanp@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Thanks in advance


-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sandy Mackinnon, 
	    University of Strathclyde, 
	    	      Glasgow (still in exile at Brown Univ, RI)
	  		                             cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk  

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: fish and chips
Date: 21 Nov 92 07:11:42 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: "barry ross" <barry.ross@canrem.com>

>I  understand that true fish and chips in England use  Dog  fish,
>not Halibut or Haddock or Cod like they do in Canada. <Pity>
>
>Is  there any truth to the above statement?  I guess it  is  just
>what you get use too.

Dog fish is what fish and chip shops call "huss" or
"rock-salmon". At one time a choice would have been offered,
but the default was cod (I heard somewhere that the default in
the north is haddock). I am not sure if a choice of fish is now
so widely available. "Fish" now means cod, but there's more
choice of battered sausages, chicken, and other non-fish
things.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: rgep@emu.pmms.cam.ac.uk (Richard Pinch)
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Summary: It's safer in Cairo
Organization: Department of Pure Mathematics, University of Cambridge
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:09:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.192529.8593@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>
>From a local point of view, I can suggest that the violence and lawlessness
>in the U.S. cities is largely due to the large number of urban poor who live
>in the cities.  Unlike many cities around the world, the U.S. cities have a
>relatively large amount of money on the streets, and thus lawlessness has its
>benefits (to the lawless).
>[...]
>

I don't think that can be the only reason.  I have been perfectly safe
walking around downtown Cairo late at night, an obvious tourist, clearly
likely to be carrying a cash sum equivalent to several years income for
the average Egyptian.  Can you imagine what would happen to someone who
was clearly carrying several tens of thousands of dollars cash in the
middle of the night in downtown New York?  Or central London?

Richard Pinch

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: English English
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 14:50:42 GMT

Sue Miller (sue@netcom.com) wrote:
> In article <1ea948INNt8l@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov16.210302.12005@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> >>
> >> I kept getting a recording which stated "The line is parked.", over & over.  
> >> I thought that was fairly strange message, so I called the ATT
> >> operator to ask what it meant.  She didn't know, so she call the BT operator
> >> to find out.  Yes, it IS another synonym for "busy" or "engaged".
> >
> >I have a vague feeling that it isn't quite the same. Busy/Engaged implies
> >that the line or equipment is in use by someone else. I think Parked means
> >that it has been taken out of service by a technician, possibly for testing.
> 
> Hmmm.  Parked == out of service.  I can well believe it, but the
> name "parked" doesn't suggest either 'busy' or 'out of service'.
> Someone with a distict lack of flair for language is at work here. 
>
Come now.  'Parked' in the US applies to calls, not lines.  An incoming
call will typically be 'parked' on a pseudo-extension while the operator pages
the recipient.  The recipient connects to the call from whichever extension
they happen to be at by dialing a code.  'Call Parking' is available on most
PBX systems, like AT&T, Rolm etc.  The term is well-known.

> 
> So I would have thought.  I have actually spent several years
> writing provisioning and operations support software for the telephony 
> industry, and as a consequence can usually make out most of the weird 
> vocabulary that the operations types come up with, but "parked" 
> eluded us.  
> 
I'm surprised.  See above.  If BT have perverted the term 'parked' to mean
something else (perhaps by association with 'parking a call while the
recipients line is busy') it would be par for the course.

Incidentally, during a stint at GE several people mentioned to me that the 
Rolm terminology 'camped on', meaning queued to get access to a busy extension,
with the system set up to call you back when the line is free, must have 
originated in the UK, as in 'camping on someone's doorstep'.  Any
confirmation of this?  Is Rolm a British outfit?

--
||I dreamed I met a Yadallean          |(parody in progress, apologies to
||A most confusing man....             | Tim Rice & Andrew Lloyd Webber)
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Split soc.culture.british
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:07:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.155753.6326@ttinews.tti.com> jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson) writes:
>I agree with a split -- into two new groups:
>
>soc.culture.british.shortandinteresting, and
>
>soc.culture.british.longwindedandboringlypettymindedwithpagesandpages
>offivedeepnestedquotationsfrompriorlongwindedpettymindedboringdrivel"Oh
>you'vequotedmeoutofcontextjusttomakeacheappoint""IfyoureadwhatImeantto
>writeinsteadofwhatyouthoughtImeant""DontcallitEnglandwhenyouarereferring
>toBerwickonTweedand"wherehasFrancisMuirgoneanywaynotthathewasguiltyofsuch
>longwindedpettymindedandbloodyboringpostings?
>
>Dick Jackson


	Good question, where are you Francis?

	Alec.
From: fbowles@gssec.bt.co.uk (Frank K Bowles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The vagaries of electoral politics (was Re: Rule Britannia)
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:04:46 GMT
Organization: BT

In article <1992Nov16.145953.11607@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
|> >Yes, Labour do have some pretty stupid election tactics, 

What is rarely said, is that the Labour Party often would rather a Tory
won a seat (local government or parliamentary), than let the Lib Dems
get it, because they know that it is easier to unseat a Tory than a Lib
Dem.  Because Lib Dems work hard for their communities, and are usually
elected on the merits of an individual they are considerably harder to
budge than another "donkey in a blue rosette"

Don't believe it?

Edinburgh West has been held at the last three elections by the Tories
over the Lib Dems by majorities of 435 (1983), 1234 (1987) and 935(ish)
(1992).  In all three Labour was third by a margin of several thousand
(and the SNP were nowhere)  Labour continued to lie about their
prospects every time, indeed in 1987 they claimed (untruthfully) that a
Lib Dem internal opinion poll put them third, with Labour nipping at
the heels of the Tories.  In 1992 they treated Edinburgh West as a
target for major expenditure, although there was no real prospect of
defeating the Tories.  A softly softly approach in Edinburgh West with
more resources directed at Edinburgh Pentlands (MP Malcolm Rifkind)
could have won Pentlands for Labour and West for the Lib Dems.  Labour's philosophy is if Labour can't win the seat from the Tories nobody can.

Frank




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank K Bowles, BT Glasgow Systems & Software Engineering Centre,
West TEC, 7 Caledon Street, Glasgow G12 9BY, Scotland. 
Tel: +44 41 220 5338     Email: fbowles@gssec.bt.co.uk
Fax: +44 41 220 2438     [GM4KAV]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:31:45 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>I think in the south (of England) we would use "you lot" when
>we wanted to stress that the second person was to be in the
>plural. Is this general elsewhere, would you not get it in
>those dialects where "youse" occurs?

In Scots, the emphasis of "you lot" would be expressed as "youse yins".
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Antony Mossop)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Date: 20 Nov 1992 20:33:49 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov19.211521.22437@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.120946.16712@infodev.cam.ac.uk> rgep@emu.pmms.cam.ac.uk (Richard Pinch) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov17.192529.8593@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>
>
>Another factor, which I didn't dwell on, is that the U.S. has an official
>aversion to outlawing weapons or giving police forces unlimited authority
>to counter crime.  We have a basic concept (although not always realized
>in a form everyone to agree to) that we believe in a fairly laissez-faire
>community (both politically and socially) and the police forces can counter
>this only with substantial proof that they're correct when they interfere.
>


Huhh? Where does this idea about the severely shackled US police forces
come from. No European countries have anywhere near the number of 
shootings of suspects by the police as in the US. Though similarly on
both sides of the Atlantic, very little is done when the most glaring
evidence shows outright assault by law officers. In the US the police
in practice are no more limited than in the UK and they're given guns
as well (one of the things that is commonly misunderstood is that there
are strong elements in the UK forces that want to have guns, it's the
public that don't trust them to carry them). In fact recent reports on
the abuse of forfeiture procedures (in fact the forfeiture procedures 
themselves) in the US would suggest that the US police aren't even
limited by their supposedly all encompassing constitution.


Tony Mossop, geophysics, Stanford
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Scarlet Letter
Date: 22 Nov 1992 21:12:59 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Aled Morris writes:
#>law.  If you tell them you are not Christian, do the same laws apply?  You
#>could be legally married in some other faith, for example, the Church
#>of Usenet.

"What therefore the NET hath joined together, let no flame put
asunder."
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: English English
Date: 17 Nov 1992 08:05:28 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Nov16.210302.12005@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>
> >
> 
> No way.  Sounds like a British neologism to me.  BT must be starting
> this up as a sideline - last spring I tried to call a friend of mine
> in London, since I wanted him to pick me up at the airport later that week.
> I kept getting a recording which stated "The line is parked.", over & over.  
> I thought that was fairly strange message, so I called the ATT
> operator to ask what it meant.  She didn't know, so she call the BT operator
> to find out.  Yes, it IS another synonym for "busy" or "engaged".
> Well why couldn't they SAY so?

I have a vague feeling that it isn't quite the same. Busy/Engaged implies
that the line or equipment is in use by someone else. I think Parked means
that it has been taken out of service by a technician, possibly for testing.

Normally busy will give you one of two busy tones, depending on the reason,
a recorded announcement is unusual in those circumstances.


-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british