From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Re: Shaking people up with "she"? (was Re: Sexist language)
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:18:20 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <-278349988@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:
>varhus@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Kristofor A Varhus) writes:
>
>Who ever says "first-year student"?  At schools in the UK it is (or at least
>was, 20 years ago) normal to use the terms "first-year", "second-year" and
>so on as nouns; e.g. "In 1971 I was a first-year" and "I want the
>second-years to stay behind after assembly".   The alternative, not so useful
>in the case being discussed, was the term "first-former", i.e. a member of
>the first form (this was exclusive to schools (~= high school), the "x-year"
>form was still used at the Poly I went to).  (Members of the top two years
>were always sixth-formers, never sixth-years as far as I can recall.  Partly
>because they were in fact the sixth- and seventh-years, and partly it doesn't
>slip off the tongue so easily).
>

In India, acronyms are more common than the terms "first-year", "second
year" and so on. Also, the term "graduate" implies "post-graduate" and
the term "undergraduate" is relatively unknown. So, if I were working
on my Masters degree, I would call it a "post-graduate" degree and would
call myself a post-graduate student (since I have already graduated).
The counterparts for the terms "freshman", "sophomore", etc. in India,
are some "infinitively more descriptive" (to couch it in the words of
a previous debater :)  ) acronyms, which are actually composed of 2
parts. The prefix of the acronym indicates the year of study the student
is currently enrolled in, and the suffix indicates the type of study.
        The education system in India follows the  pattern :
 kindergarten(2 years) + schooling(10 years) + junior college (2 years)
 + graduate college (3-5 years, depending upon the area of study)
 + post-graduate study (2-3 years)
 + Ph. D.
 + ad infinitum    :)

Thus, F.E. - first year engineering student.
      S.E., T.E. - second, third year engg. students
      B.E. - final year student of the bachelor of engg. course
Similarly,
      F.Y.J.C./S.Y.J.C. - First/Second year Junior college student 
      F.Y.B.Com. - First year bachelor of commerce student. (I really
                   have no idea why they don't change this to a simpler
                   F.Com!  :)  )
      F.Y.B.A. - First year bachelor of Arts student.
and many other acronyms on these lines.....      


>>What?  Freshman is very descriptive!  Obviously, it's someone who is new at
>>what (s)he's doing! 
>No it isn't; there's nothing obvious about it at all.  I remember puzzling
>over this expression when I first encountered it in a book many years ago.
>You are just so used to it you don't see the problem.  (A comment which
>applies to this whole discussion).
>
>Andrew

*Sigh*! It once again seems like a case of Americans versus the rest of
the world. Hey! If you guys like the meaning of the word "freshman" as
most of you define it, go ahead and enjoy the difference. But don't
expect the world to bow down to this meaning. If there is a inter-dialect
conflict over the word "freshman", the correct meaning should be decided
by comparing it against English English.

                                                            Mandar. 
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.