From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: The discussion on Macedonia
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


NI>From: nick@rti.org
NI>-What is the ethnic make up of the inhabitants of the Republic of
NI>Macedonia?
  Slavic (55%), Albanian(35-40%), Vlach, others. Every linguist in the
  world classifies the so-called "Macedonian" language as Slavonic.
  Even Kiro Gligorov, who internally preaches the most absurt revisions
  of history, has enough sense to change his tune when talking to foreign
  officials:

  <<   Kiro Gligorov, Macedonia's president, has taken his
  independence cause to several capitals, including Washington. He
  maintains that his people are descendents from Slavs who have
  been there for 14 centuries, have long called themselves
  Macedonians, and will not discuss changing their name. >>
  New York Times 2/3/92.
  (Ofcource the definition of the word "long" is in doubt here)

NI>-What is the ethnic make up of the inhabitants of the greek province
NI>of Macedonia?
  The vast majority (97%+) is Greek, with very small numbers of Slavophones
  and Moslems. There are larger consentration of Muslim slavophones in the
  Thrace, as well as ethnic turks.  Beware of population figures from before
  1913; before 1913 there were large numbers of Slavs and Turks living in
  (Greek)Macedonia, and equally large numbers of Greeks living in Vardar
  (ex-Yugo"Macedonia") and Pirin (Bulgarian "M"). Population exchanges in
  1913 changed that picture with Greeks coming south, and Slavs going north.
  Greece is not making any claims based on the pre-1913 existence of Greeks
  in Bulgaria or Vardar; but Vardar is still making claims based on those pre
  1913 populations.
NI>-Who are the ancestors of the inhabitants of the Republic of
NI>Macedonia?
  You mean Vardar?
  Slavs who invaded Macedonia during the 6th century AD. Don't believe me,
  believe mr Kiro Gligorov. Actually the Albanians (Illirians) have been
  in Vardar before the Slavs, the Greeks or anyone else.

  You mean Greek Macedonia?
  The majority of todays Greek Macedonians are ancestors of the ancient
  Macedonian people. Large number of Ionian Greeks came from Asian Minor
  during the 1922 exodus, and the subsequent population exchanges.

NI>-Given the claim of a Macedonian nation is there a geographical
NI>area that this nation used to(or does) occupy?
  There used to be Slavs (mostly Bulgarians) all over Greek Macedonia, Vardar
  and Pirin. Same was true for Greeks. After 1913, this situation radically
  changed. Thrace is a special case, because it was Bulgarian until Bulgaria
  lost WWI in 1917.

  As for the ancient Macedonian nation, it did not occupy the same
  geographic region as Vardar. Ancient Macedonia was to the south, almost
  entirely within (todays)Greece. All the major Macedonian cities (Aiges,
  Pella, Thessalonica) were within todays Greece (becides the fact that they
  also all had Greek names)
NI>-Which ethnic group in the region is closer
NI>related(language,religion,customs,etc)to the claimed Mecedonian
NI>nation.
  Vardar culture and language is closely related to Bulgarian c & l.
  (Greek)Macedonians today speak Greek, just like the ancient Macedonians.
  While the culture has significantly evolved (as to be expected after
  2,500 years) especially since 1922 with the influx if Ionian Greeks,
  there is considerable trail of history and literature which proves that
  there is an uninterrupted link between ancient and modern Macedonia.
NI>-If the Macedonian nation believes that its roots are in the era of
NI>Alexander the great, what is the justification for this belief other
NI>than the name Macedonia.
  The Vardaris: None. Even Kiro Gligorov admits to that when confronted
  by international press (who can read objective history). At the same time
  Kiro and co. are selling this "descentents of Alexander" story to the
  people of Vardar, who do not have much choice in their textbooks.
NI>- And,          if the greeks believe the same for relation to
NI>Alexander, what is the best way to settle the dispute??
  I have posted in the past unbiased sources (Brittanica,
  American Academic Encyclopaedia, Others) which clearly state that
  Alexander was Greek. Alexanders grandfather (Alexander I) had participated
  in the Olympic Games (which were off-limits to non-Greeks).
NI>-What are the historical landmark-events for the Macedonian nation,
NI>say, the last 100 years, with particular emphasis on the events during
NI>WW II.
  1912 - First Balkan war (Greece+Serbia+Bulgaria vs Turkey)
         Macedonia, Vardar, Pirin liberated.
  1913 - 2nd Balkan war (Greece+Serbia+Romania vs Bulgaria vs Turkey)
         Bulgaria tries to grab more than its fair share, loses bad.
         Population exchanges follow.
  WWI  - Bulgaria allies with Central powers - loses Thrace
  WWII - Bulgaria allies with Hitler - Occupies Macedonia and Vardar.
  1945 - Tito renames Vardar "Macedonia". Vardaris protest but
         the brinwashing begins.
  1991 - Macedonia proclaims "Independence"
  1992 - USA, UN, EEC, Australia, Canada turn down request for recognition
         of "M", until the name issue is resolved.

  Michael.

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