From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Race Relations Survey
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:35:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.175153.18896@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
>
>I have backed my statements up, in the past, with empirical
>information.  Do you have anything more than feeling and
>blind emotion to contribute?  You might want to study
>Stan and Vance some.
>
Statistics can be manipulated anyway you want. You know this. They in and of
themselves prove nothing.

>| Before AA their was resentment, 
>
>What ever for?  The whites had everything so what would they
>resent blacks for?  Irrational hate or contempt, yes.  But
>resentment?
>
Ok this one I'll give you.

>| racial polarization 
>
>Worldwide, AA programs have always fed racial polarization or
>made it worse.

No not really. Whites are the ones that have wanted to be seperated from
AfAms. We are the ones that attend white schools and live in white areas
not the other way around. Of course I am speaking in general terms but I'll
bet they hold true more times than not.

>
>| and disparagement of accomplishments. 
>
>Considering the problems of the AfAm community, any pre-AA
>accomplishments wouldn't be disparged, they would be admired.
>I doubt you have had a fraction of the problems that faced
>Thomas Sowell, for example.

The nature of the problem hasn't changed just how its manifested has
changed.

>
>Without preferential policies, you have no rational reason
>to suspect someones qualifications (say, a fellow freshman).
>With them, it is statistically accurate to *expect* that a
>freshman in an elite school from a perferred group wouldn't
>be there on merit.  [Berkley, Harvard, etc.]  This is particularly
>insulting to those who *are* there on merit.

Yes but its the ignorance of the whites that hold such ideas that is
insulting. How would you feel if some unqualified person does just
as well as you do in a task that you are qualified to do. Seems to
me that would question the basis of what makes some one qualified.

>
>| Whites NEED to think that they
>| are superior to AfAms because at every time when the playing field has been
>| made level AfAms have excelled. 
>
>Now do we have a Prof Jeffries style claim of superiority?

No. Just making an observation.

>
>| I know of MANY AfAms who didn't have the test scores like
>| the white students but excelled in the classroom just like the so-called
>| "qualified" white students. 
>
>Berkely graduation rate for Whites & Asians -- 70%
>Berkley grad rate for Black AA students     -- 18% after 5 yrs.

So what. No one is taking into consideration the stress that AfAms have
to endure when they are in a predominately white institution. Take it from
me it is no party. I would imagine that this is one of the reasons why whites
don't attend predominately black schools. The assumption that bothers me
is that you are assuming that the AfAms don't graduate because most aren't
qualified to be there which is racist, in my opinion.

>
>Further, the course of study followed by blacks is heavily
>weighted toward less rigorous courses of study.
>
I remeber I had a white counselor that told me that I should change my
major from molecular biology to something like history because most
AfAms aren't good in the sciences. Thank god I told her to shove it 
because I never would have made it to grad school in molecular biology.

>Your 'MANY' doesn't compare with empirical research.  Furthermore,
>several studies have indicated that test scores are a *better*
>indicator of black performance in college than they are of
>white performance.

Actually some test scores in some categories are better indicators not the
overall score.

>
>| From my own experience, the assumption of whites
>| is that the AfAm isn't qualified to be at their school. Regardless of
>| test scores, etc. This has NOTHING to to with AA.
>
>Then you aren't paying attention.
>At Berkley, somewhere around 9 of 10 minority students
>do not qualify under merit criteria. Without AA,
>you would have less minority students but everyone
>would have gotten there on their own and everyone would
>know it.

No true. There isn't any AA programs for graduate schools but the assumption
that AfAms aren't qualified still remains. This type of attitude just helps
me because it helped me to get either the highest socre or at least be near
the top of my class. But there is alot of stress associated with this as well.
If you want to argue about their being AA for graduate schools just ask 
someone in admissions. 

Dowdy Jackson

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