HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:52:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 01:48:10 -0400 Allan Adler <adler@RISC1.ACC.URI.EDU> said:

> I am just wondering whether the AIDS epidemic is the beginning of the
> extinction of homo sapiens sapiens in our own time.

This is a question about the future, not about the past.
The only appropriate answer, I think, is "wait and see."

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:14:00 EST
From:         JFOX@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU
Subject:      Early Kentucky
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Am doing some research on early Kentucky for a talk that I will be giving in
October.  My main interest is on its entrance into the Union.  I would be
interested to hear from anyone who has some information, insights, or
interpretation re: early Kentucky that is not usually found in traditional
secondary works.  I am particularly interested in anything which will help
to give a uniqueness (personallity - is that the right word?) to early
Kentucky.  Thanks for your help.n
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:43:00 EDT
From:         32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

I would add to Christopher's comments on the percentage of children born with
AIDS, that those born HIV positive have been known to test negative as they
mature.  This would seem to indicate that at least an immature immune system
can adapt.  Medical research is too new to predict just how AIDS will play
itself out.  Many people have already survived with AIDS longer than they were
`supposed' to have done.  Unless somebodies chrystle ball is working better
than mine, I don't think we can say what the very long term may hold.

################################################################################
Carol E. Wheeler                   # "But for the history of civilisation
                                   #  every delusion or opinion of an epoch
Department of History              #  has the value of an important fact."
The Catholic University of America #
Washington, DC 20064               #  The_Waining_of_the_Middle_Ages
202-319-5484                       #
                                   #   -Jan Huisinga
32wheeler@cua                      #
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:37:39 -0400
From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

I was relieved to see Denis Paz set for some elementary principles of foreign
policy analysis for Lenny,  noting ,  with wonderful forbearance that US
foreign policy has not always been altruistic,  especially with regard to
Cuba. A couple of days ago Bush said that as president he will stand on the
free soil of Cuba.  He didn't say it;  he crowed it. Perhaps we will enjoy
another altruistic restoration of democracy and freedom as in Grenada, Iraq,
and Panama.
  I just joined this list,  and I wonder if there is an American history list
or a list on religion in American culture.
******************************************
Mario S. De Pillis, Dept. of History, UMass at Amherst, Amherst, MA 01002
Internet: AHAB000@PHOBOS.UCC.UMASS.EDU
Telephone: home: 413-253-9497; office 413-545-0227
US Mail:  27 Gaylord St, Amherst, MA 01002, USA
fax (UMass/Herter): 413-545-6137
*****************************************
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From: akerr@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Austin Kerr)
Subject: Re: Arthur M. Schlesinger,
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:52:42 GMT

I think Schlesinger's books on the new Deal are still worth reading so long as 
you keep in mind his bias, and that he might take a few literary liberties.  I 
had graduate students read part of one last year, and they agreed it was a 
pleasure to read an "old fashioned" narrative history so well written.  Also, 
in my research I have found them useful background reading because he did a lot
of research that is still useful from a public policy perspective.
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:50:00 EDT
From:         JOSE@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:35:00 CDT Bill Sjostrom <TA0WXS1@NIU.BITNET> said:
> >and cultural style after, no doubt aided Castro's rise to power and
> >continues to influence Cuban attitudes towards the US.
>
> That explains why all the Cuban refugees sail for Haiti and Jamaica
> and pass Florida by.
>                            Bill Sjostrom


No, but it does help to explain why at Playa Giron and over the decades
since, many (not all!) Cubans have been willing to tolerate, even
support, a regime with numerous faults.

Joe Arbena
Clemson U.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:51:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:34:22 EDT Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET> said:
> Perhaps you think that the Cubans would have prefered to remain in the
> Spanish "sphere of influence"?
>
No. The Cubans wanted their independence from Spain, and revolted
as early as the 1870s.

> The mean old imperial americans really did do nasty things to the Cubans
> when they forced them to break away from the sweet Spaniards, didn't they?
>
The Americans did not force the Cubans to break away from Spain. The
Cubans did that on their own. What the Americans did was to force
the Cubans to accept independence on American terms, not on
Cuban terms.

> I continue to forget that we are the world's villians, and that the
> guys with firing squads working overtime are wearing the white hats.
> You will have to forgive me.
> P.S.  Do you ever step down from the Culpa USA cross?

Once again, Lenny seems to be arguing that if one denies that
US foreign policy is perfectly altruistic and always benign,
one must be maintaining that US foreign policy is absolutely
wicked and the worst of all.

I do not share that manichaean view of foreign policy. Rather,
it looks to me like the late nineteenth century was a time of
imperial expansion in the west, and that the United States,
being a western country, was behaving much like other powers.

I suggest that Lenny read up on the Ostend Manifesto, the Platt
Amendment, and the Roosevelt Correlary to the Monroe Doctrine.
These documents actually existed.
I also suggest that Lenny try to put himself in the perspective
of people who are not Americans.

The United States is not the world's most perfect society. There
is no such thing as the world's most perfect society. Some
societies are much more desireable (in my view) than others, and
the United States certainly is one of those societies. But it is
naive to think that the US, or any other society, is "perfect."

I was corrupted as a youth by having graduate-school friends
who were Canadians, Britishers, Australians, New Zealanders,
and even Ugandans. Instead of stopping up my ears, I listened
to their views about the United States.

I also made the mistake of having relatives
who were Mexican citizens living in Mexico, and whose views about
the United States came from a non-American perspective.
Instead of ignoring or dismissing their views, I made the
mistake of actually listening to them, and even of trying to
figure out for myself the validity of their views.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:41:25 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Castro
              26 Jul 1992 15:56:54 EDT from <JCCANNEK@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Who is "FRD"?  And why should he give Castro money?

Lenny
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:32:22 EDT
From:         Lennyh <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Castro vs. Batista
              23 Jul 1992 20:21:00 EDT from <DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET>

>Some members of this list, however, want to believe in
>the exceptional nature of the United States, that the USA is
>unlike any other state that ever existed. Part of that
>historical interpretation (for that is what it is) is the
>belief that, unlike the Old World, the USA is a "New Order in
>the World" (see the backs of your one dollar bills), a new
>beginning unlike the grasping, imperialist, expansionist powers
>of Europe.

It is a heart-warming experience to see understanding light up the
mind of a hitherto dull student.

I am indeed reminded of the words of the prophet:  "Then shall the
eyes of the blind be opened.  And the ears of the deaf unstopped."


Lenny
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:45:39 PDT
From:         Deborah Leslie <BM.LPD@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Lib. Co. of Phila. construction project

           LIBRARY COMPANY OF PHILADELPHIA BEGINS
         CONSTRUCTION/RENOVATION PROJECT IN FALL 1992

Philadelphia--In September 1992, the Library Company of Philadelphia
will begin a construction/renovation project that is scheduled to
last through May 1993.  On occasion the Library Company will need
to be closed.  For your convenience and safety, we ask that
researchers call for an appointment before coming to the Library--
(215) 546-3181.  No exhibitions will be on view during this time.
The project will provide the Library Company with many critically
needed things--a new facade, a central entrance, a new exhibition
gallery, expanded room for the Prints and Photographs Department,
and a main Reading Room that is quiet and secure.  We are confident
that the improvements in our ability to serve the public will
compensate for any temporary inconvenience during the construction.

CONTACT: Eileen Shapiro daytime (215) 546-5588

Please distribute this message to all interested parties.  Initial
distribution to Exlibris, C18-L, History, Sharp-L.      -DJL
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:39:08 EDT
From:         VH2@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      AIDS and CAWKI

Having followed the discussion on AIDS and CAWKI, I feel
impelled to put in a plug for the AIDS History Group of the
American Association for the History of Medicine.  We are
an informally organized (read: no charge) group of historians,
archivists, sociologists, epidemiologists, and other people
concerned with documenting and writing about the history of
AIDS.  We held one conference in 1989 called "AIDS and the
Historian," the proceedings of which are available from our
office upon request (only in hard copy; not in electronic
format).  We are now seeking funding for a second conference
tentatively entitled "AIDS and Tuberculosis: Epidemics and
their Unexpected Consequences."  If anyone is interested in
joining the group, contact me at the e-mail address below.

Victoria Harden
National Institutes of Health
vh2@nihcu
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Organization: Syracuse University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:49:52 LCL
From:         MJFORRES@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Meet John Doe
              20 Jul 1992 20:01:20 CDT from <djm1@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

On Mon, 20 Jul 1992 20:01:20 CDT Don Mabry said:
>David Bennett has a good book on "fascist, semi-fascist, and clerico-
>fascist" movements in the 1930s in the U.S.

Two books, really.  I think Don is referring to Bennett's first book:
"Demagogues of the Depression."  But also see his more recent book,
"Party of Fear," which surveys nativist movements from the colonial
period through the 1980s.

________________________________________________________________________
Maurice Forrester  |  mjforres@suvm.bitnet  |  mjforres@suvm.acs.syr.edu
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:44:20 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
              21 Jul 1992 04:02:05 EDT from <JCCANNEK@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

McKinley invented the modern presidency.  Many facets of that office
which we take for granted, and accept as proper are duties which he
first assumed.  He also was the first president to run the government, and
its many policy-making offices as a modern business.

I got this out of the recent American Heritage history of the White House
(2 vols).  Please don't make me read it again.

Lenny
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 03:53:34 EDT
From:         Anne Kearney <JCCANNEK@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Meet John Doe

Robert Tull also has an older but still good bio of Coughlin.

ANNE KEARNEY
HISTORY PROGRAM
JEFFERSON COMMUNITY COLLEGE - UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
109 EAST BROADWAY
LOUISVILLE, KY 40202
(502) 584-0181, EXT. 353
JCCANNEK@UKCC
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:30:00 EDT
From:         David.Langenberg@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      Re: Family Tree Software
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Personal Ancestry File (Version 2.1 for the Apple Macintosh), produced by the
LDS Church in Salt Lake City is also available.  For info, call (801)
240-2584.
   It's reasonably priced and while it has a few quirks and many limitations,
it can produce pedigree charts.

    David Langenberg
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:02:48 BST
From:         Christopher Currie <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

>
> Even the bubonic plague, which had a respiratory form, did not lead to
> extinction.


That was because if you got the pneumonic form it killed you in a day or two,
and you could no longer pass on the infection. If you caught a hypothetical
'respiratory HIV', and could transmit it by the same means, you would
infect everyone you met over a period of years long before you developed
symptoms. Unless genuine resistance to the virus was possible, it would
lead to the extinction of all but very isolated populations. I suspect that
some form of resistance would develop, indeed (as the discussion about
children with HIV suggests) already exists.

Christopher
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:45:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Mon, 20 Jul 1992 22:36:32 EDT Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET> said:
>
> Bye the bye, I collect McKinleyana,                                   ription

Here is perhaps an amusing anecdote. Ann Arbor, Michigan, has a
"McKinley Street." (I don't know if it is named after the Prez.)
During the late 1960s and up to 1970, persons unknown persisted
in stencilling "Czgolosz" over the "McKinley." I believe that
the A2 Roads Dept. finally gave up on restoring the sign.

> And let us not be too critical of McKinley.  He was a fine president.  He was
> the last of his breed, and only suffered by comparison with TR.

Actually, I think that McKinley suffers by comparison with
Emilio Aguinaldo. In my view, McK. was on the wrong side of
the imperialism debate. McK. claimed that God told him to
keep the Philippines as a colony. I am very suspicious of
politicians who claim that they have divine mandates for their
policies.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:51:11 MDT
From:         jsvilpis@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      signing on

Could someone please tell me how to join this discussion group?
Many thanks.

Janis Svilpis
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:10:00 EST
From:         JFOX@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU
Subject:      Women in the Office
Comments: To: history%rutvm1.Bitnet@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Working on a history of a New England Mutual Insurance Company.
Using archival records and interviews.  In the process of research
I have found (not surprisingly) that through the 50s companies were
dominated by male WASPS and that women were relegated to clerical
task.  If they held "supervisory position" they were little more
than an overseer.  Unlike the office boy, they could not move up to
be president.  Religious and ethnic minorities were not knowingly
hired.  I should note that the long time employees who I
interviewed seem to have some sense that their sex kept them from
being treated equitably both in promotion and wages.  When asked
how they felt, they tended to shrug their shoulder and simply say
that was how it was.   At this point my particular interest is to
get a better feeling for how women were treated in similar
workplaces; I am not concerned with the experience of women in
factories, I am familiar with this.  My main interest is on women
working in offices or banks.  I would like to hear from anyone who
had done research on this or a related topic and who would be
willing to share their findings and insights.     
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:21:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Castro vs. Batista

On Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:35:55 -0400 ICJME@ASUACAD.BITNET said:
>  mass murders (read: executions)                                      king the

Castro was not doing much more than any revolutionary leader does
upon taking control. (In fact, I doubt that he did much more than
Pinochet, or the Greek Colonels, or the Argentine generals did. He
certainly was more open about it.)
The US government of the day and the mass
media exaggerated and gave a negative spin to what Castro was
doing because it was clear from day one that Castro would not
be a flunky of the US the way that Batista was. I began keeping
my diary on 1 January 1959, so not only was I around and thinking
when Castro came to power, but I remember how rapidly the
mass media and US gov't turned against his regime.

>    Why should the US be supportive towards someone who attacks the US and who
>  nationalizes private property of both citizens and corporations of the US? Wh
y
>  should the US be altruistic at all?

I have no problem with these points, as descriptive of how
diplomacy operates. States act according to their perceived
best interests.
Some members of this list, however, want to believe in
the exceptional nature of the United States, that the USA is
unlike any other state that ever existed. Part of that
historical interpretation (for that is what it is) is the
belief that, unlike the Old World, the USA is a "New Order in
the World" (see the backs of your one dollar bills), a new
beginning unlike the grasping, imperialist, expansionist powers
of Europe. This view is connected with ideas about "errands into
the wilderness" and "a city set upon a hill," but also with
ideas of Evangelical Protestant origin relating to the exceptional
nature of ancient Israel,"god's chosen people," having been
transferred to the USA.
In order to maintain this view, some members of this list (who shall
remain nameless) have to engage in systemic and massive denial of
evidence that points to the conclusion that the USA behaves like
other liberal western democracies have behaved in the 20th century.
For them, to assert that the USA behaves like other liberal
western democracies is tantamount to asserting that the USA is
evil and villainous, because that assertion denies that the
USA is perfect.
Of course, that is theology, not history. Historians should
know that theology is important in explaining human behavior,
but we must guard against confusing what is being analysed
with the analysis itself.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
Xref: sparky bit.listserv.history:4403 soc.history:6607
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:52:52 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
              23 Jul 1992 11:57:51 -0400 from <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>

Mario, I don't think you were around when Castro came to power.

If you were, you would remember the executions which were so massive as
to border on class-genocide.  They were performed in a soccer stadium,
because that was the only holding pen/firing squad facility large enough
to accomodate the activity.

Castro did not "...get free of the Soviets..." because he wanted them.
Castro did not start playing with the Russians until some time after
the revolution, and then he played them very skillfully so as to never
become completely beholden to them.  His skill was very much like that
of Tito in Yugoslavia.


Castro was not a "...breath of fresh air..." for anyone.

Lenny
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:31:00 EDT
From:         32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

Dan,
        Actually research seems to indicate that married women (when comparied
to married men, single men and women), are the least happy.  Is that what
living with a "normal" man does to women?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carol E. Wheeler                   | Oh life is a wonderful cycle of song,
                                   | A medely of extemporania;
Department of History              | And love is a thing that can never go
The Catholic University of America |                                 wrong,
Washington, DC 20064               | And I am Marie of Rumainia.
32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET               |       --Dorothy Parker
______________________________________________________________________________
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:05:28 PDT
From:         Ken Fishkin <fishkin@PARC.XEROX.COM>
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI
Comments: To: HISTORY@umrvmb.umr.edu

those interested in the topic of disease thinning out
homo sapiens by several orders of magnitude may
want to check out "Earth Abides" by (George Stewart?) -
a Science Fiction classic on the topic.

-Ken
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