HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knechod@stacc.med.utah.edu (Kevin Nechodom)
Subject: Re: T/ T=Killfiles and whoami
Organization: University of Utah STACC
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:14:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.031322.22146@ncsu.edu> tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us writes:
>
>In article <712425627.F00002@blkcat.UUCP>, Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:
[deleted stuff]
>|>I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning...  ;-(
>
>In other words, if hollombe will stop attempting to be the self-appointed 
>moderator for rec.org.mensa by regularly posting a kill file with the 
>current tai userid, I'll promise not to change my id.

I'm curious.  What metric are you using to determine that the use of
such a kill file command is effective enough for you to change your
id?

>                                                       I don't object to
>kill files, just to the idea of someone trying to tell everyone else
>what they should and should not read.

Are you sure that it's the abstract 'should and should not read', and
not the 'should and should not read YOU'?

>                                       It smacks of censorship, and I
>think everyone here (well, almost everyone) is intelligent enough to
>make their own decisions about what they will read.

1. I should think that those who decided to add such a command to
   their kill file (a group that I am obviously not a member of) would
   do so of their own volition, not mindlessly following the dictates
   of the author of such a command.

2. No one likes to be accused of censorship, and those making such an
   incendiary accusation must justify such a statement.  How can
   offering such a mechanism qualify as censorship?  When the phone
   company offers a 900-number block or a cable company sells a
   channel-blocking device, is that censorship?  Even if you were to
   argue that in my analogy, the 'protected' group consists of
   children, the fact that we ARE adults strengthens my first point.
   We may 'protect' ourselves, if we wish.  And the measures we take
   should be respected.

3. Do you really mean to call someone's intelligence into question?
   Or was it done strictly for effect (like the ass-kicking mentioned
   in a previous post)?  If so, isn't that kind of like slapping your
   kids just to see if they're paying attention?

> 
>-- Scott Tai 
>tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us

How is it possible to have a newsgroup like rec.org.mensa, a group
dedicated to the discussion of reason, logic and intelligence, as
emotionally charged as talk.abortion?

-- 
Kevin Nechodom UofU STACC        | Great Moments in Physics History:
 UofU doesn't even know I exist; | "E= m c cubed?  No, too gaudy.
 how would they care what I say? |  E= m c ?  No, too simple.
knechod@stacc.med.utah.edu       |  E= m c squared?  Ah, ha!"
From: schin@pub2.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Hunter College High '86 Stuyvesant '86
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:29:23 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@pub2.bu.edu

Hello

I am looking for graduates of Hunter College High and Stuyvesant. If you
are one or perhaps no of one, kindly contact me.

Thank you,

Neil Schier



Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@crchh404.BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: A few questions for ISPE members
Reply-To: noEmail
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:40:11 GMT

I just received my first ISPE journal, and I have a few questions.

1) What are all of the recent difficulties that ISPE has been facing 
recently (alluded to in reference to Betty Hansen's performance as
President of ISPE)?  Has Scott Tai been pestering them too? :)

2) According to a letter from Chris Harding (ISPE's founder) in In-Genius,
Mr. Harding has been unable to have his submissions published in Telicom.
Why is this?  Was he involved in ISPE's difficulties?

3) For the benefit of another, what score, if any, is accepted on the
ACT for admission to ISPE?

Enquiring minds want to know :)
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....

"Every cubic inch of space is a miracle." - Walt Whitman
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa national versus local, New York City
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:48:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.232946.4620@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul27.125637.1759@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, edp@math.zko.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
> > In article <1992Jul24.191433.8577@ttinews.tti.com>,
> > hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> > 
> > >GLAAM manages to print and distribute thousands of copies of a 32 - 40
> > >page newsletter every month with available funds.
> 
> I've been putting off reading this thread because I wanted to
> save for last what looked to me to be the battle of the century.  But
> now I see it's quite a different topic than I thought.  Never mind.

I know what you mean (I think).  "Aaaannnnddd in the white corner, tipping
the scale at IQ 148*, American Mensa Limited.  And in the black corner,
tipping the scale at 8,000,000 stories**---The City of Greater New Yorrrrrk!

*  On the Cattell scale.
** Not all in the same building, however.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell)
Subject: Intelligence Assays
Followup-To: Scott's contribution  
Summary: Whose Measures  
Originator: gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Quotation; Responding  
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:29:34 GMT

  Scott A. Tai,

   Forgive me for posting here, but it seems most timely. You may
 email me directly if you choose, without fear of flaming, since
 I have until today only been an objective viewer of comments
 associated with your discourse. 
   I was hoping you could advise me as to how much of your recent
 informative posts is quotation, and how much is paraphrasing? I
 would appreciate your emailing me copies of the info stuff if you
 have it filed from the posts I read 30July92. This is highly con-
 troversial material and deserves serious consideration, if most
 of it is quotation. I do believe, however, that much more data is
 available, and since some of this info has been posted before I
 sense you have been thoroughly studying a select group. I, for one,
 appreciate the availability of this info and would like to
 follow-up, since I am a father. I would inherently guess environ
 ment would play a major role in instilling intelligence character-
 istics. Just witnessing how people misjudge other's positions in
 life by assessing their appearance, possessions, attitude, cliques
 hung out with, church attended, etc. virtually ad infinitum, BASED
 ON THEIR OWN cognizance of these 'things' and by their own measuring
 scales, I'm wondering how any standardizations can result for any
 assays. We all end up using our experiences to validate perceptions
 on our scales, therefor we all have our own ruler we have carved and
 chiseled into our scanning equipment. Being open-minded enough to
 admit wrong-doing and to accept making mistakes seems to me far more
 productive than wasting time displaying anger frustation, and dis-
 agreement, tho disagreeing leads to discussion among civilized people
 occasionally. 
  I do not wish to foment flaming by thoughtfully considering your
 posts in front of this group, but I feel capable of bantering with
 you if the need arises. If you can email an address I could use to
 correspond with you, you have my word of honor I will not post it.
 Better yet, call me since I too work at NCSU, Raleigh, NC. I have
 been unable to find your address or phone locally.
  I anticipate great energies being spent trying to address what Scott
 Tai has said. Perhaps Mensans possess that trait of rising above con-
 troversy and inspiring redhot discussion instead, which is why non-
 mensans may be monitoring and responding to this news-group.
  For those interested, and especially respectively for Scott, I
 refer all to the last verse of Job chapter 28. (religious nut NOT!)

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: student membership
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:40:40 -0500

macknik@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu writes:

 EAM> I currently earn $7000 a year as a technician for the
 EAM> college while earning my engineering degree.  I wish 
 EAM> I could be active[ in Mensa], but
 EAM> since I am over 25, I don't qualify for the student discount.

But due to your financial situation, you may qualify for even MORE of a
discount, maybe even 100%.  Write to Brooklyn and ask for details.

 EAM> Can anyone explain why Mensa has this particular restriction?

Wild guess - probably because if you're *over* 25 and a full-time student, you
can probably get the financial-hardship discount instead, as opposed to typical
full-time students, who are usually financially supported to a very large degree
(so to speak) by their parents.  For the latter, I would guess that the discount
is more of an attraction measure, rather than to make it easier for those who
already want to join but can't afford.


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: T: To All MENSA Members...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:02:34 GMT

In article <712296062.F00005@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> 
>  g> Call [...] the SIG the Antimensig.
> 
> But people might think it's about feminism.... <gd&rlh!>
> 

See, that's the beauty of it!  You only invite smart people!
Stupid people can stand around outside being "righteously 
indignant", wondering why all those happy people inside
eating snacks and drinking diet Sprites and talking aren't
all women!  They'd be confused once again!  And who cares?

Hope this helps.

GMS
From: ph@venturi.ama.caltech.edu (Paul Hardy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Why GREENSleaves?
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:27:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

In article <711950747.F00004@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:

>   1.  What makes it green?  The green comes from chlorophyll, which acts as a
>   catalyst in the presence of light, enabling the plant to photosynthesize.
>
>   2.  Why do most plants share the use of chlorophyll?  Most likely (and I'm
>   SWAGing here) because it's part of the "inheritance" from the original
>   successful species of plant, rather than a bunch of identical mutations.
>
>   3.  Now the non-obvious part.  Why is chlorophyll green?  Look at it from
>   the reverse angle and ask why it absorbs all the other colors.  Turns
>   out that the sun's light is pretty strong in most of the other colors, and
>   not so hot in green, so something that absorbed the other stuff would do
>   better than something that didn't.

I think there is actually a peak in the green portion of the Sun's spectrum,
and so it's somewhat of a mystery why chlorophyll has become so prevalent.
It could just be that chlorophyll does a better job of utilizing water than
anything else that's come along.  There's an interesting article on photo-
synthesis in the February 1990 edition of Scientific American if anyone's
interested.

>   (BTW, I've heard that green is a VERY rare color for a star, so plants on
>   other worlds would probably be green too!)

Maybe, except of course that Planet Claire has pink air and all the trees
are red.  Question: what sort of chemical would make the air pink?  Could
it be a mercury or halogen compound (say of iodine) that flouresces?  What
then would be the likely equivalent of manganese in "clairophyll" to reflect
red?

				--Paul
--
This is my address:         ph@ama.caltech.edu
This is UUCP:               ...!{decwrl,uunet}!
This is my address on UUCP: ...!{decwrl,uunet}!caltech.edu!ama!ph
Any questions?

"Does Emacs have the Buddha nature?"  --Paul Hardy   "Yow!" --Zippy
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Newsletter costs (was Re: Mensa national versus local)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:57:55 -0500

  PH> From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
  PH> 
  PH> Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:
  > By now you've probably already rec'd a msg from the original poster
  > saying much the same thing:  you missed his point in your paragraph you
  > deleted from these nested quotes.  Available funds are only *supposed*
  > to support "publish a calendar of local events and mail it out first
  > class, period."
  > 
  PH> Maybe you are missing my point.  National should be giving the local
  PH> groups enough to produce a good newsletter.  It is the local
  PH> newsletter that hold groups together.

Actually, I thought you made your point quite well.  But I thought that the
original poster also had a valid point, which you'd ignored in your original
reply.  It was his original point which I thought should be acknowledged as
valid, and dealt with accordingly.


  PH> I don't think that national is giving us enough money "publich a
  PH> calendar of local events and mailit out first class, period".  We send
  PH> 1200 copies: .29 postage = $348.  Our calendar section is 12 pages,
  PH> printed two pages per side: six sides @ 3 cents a copy + 1 cent a copy
  PH> for colored paper = $288.  Total cost $636 a month.  Our subsidy for
  PH> three months was just over $1700, cost of mailing calendar first
  PH> class: $1908.
  PH> 
  PH> It's actually cheaper for us to send a whole newsletter using second
  PH> class postage rates than send just a calendar first class.  BUT EITHER
  PH> WAY, THE NATIONAL SUBSIDY ISN'T ENOUGH.

And if you had a 57 page calendar section, it *still* wouldn't likely ever be
enough.  Having a 12 page calendar section is wonderful for you (I suppose - I
haven't seen it;  is it all small type?  Inundated with unnecessary or repeated
details?)   Someone has to decide what's "reasonable" to ask members to
subsidize in the way of calendar events they may never attend, or articles they
may never read.  In this case, since national is disbursing the funds, that
"someone" must be national.  Perhaps what we need to discuss how much of our
dues we send to national, and how much we could send to our local group instead,
thereby obviating the need for national to make such decisions.  OTOH, local
groups have the option of charging a form of local group "dues" already...

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: More on the AG
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:26:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.171514.2755@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) writes:

}... I think posting the full minutes here
}is a waste of "bandwidth", considering their size.

Perhaps they could be archived somewhere and made available by anonymous
ftp?

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR)
Subject: ex nihilo (was: Re: IQ vs. Faith)
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:50:39 GMT

In <1992Jul24.221642.8002@Cadence.COM> phz@cadence.com
(Pete Zakel) writes:
 
>There is at least one physicist who claims that a singularity
>can form at random out of the background fabric of the universe
>if the universe is sufficiently quiescent.
 
Can you explain how this works?
From: tai-sa@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: T=What Correlation?
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:47:17 GMT
Reply-To: tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory


dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:

|> > You're not more intelligent, you simply scored higher on a test
|> > whose validity is questionable.
|> 
|> I don't disagree on the debatable correlation between test scores and
|> intelligence, though I will say that I believe there is a _loose_
|> correlation.

The idea that standardized tests are "accurate predictors of future 
academic performance" is indeed a myth.  I refer anyone interested to 
Allan Nairn's 1980 publication of "The Reign of ETS: The Company that 
Makes Up Minds".  This publication was a six-year compilation of 
numerous studies and inquiries into all facets of the Educational 
Testing Service.

Particularly disturbing to me was the sheer bulk of evidence to
suggest that ETS tests do not predict future academic performance.  
It appears that a random-roll with a pair of dice was as accurate 
in 85%(LSAT), 89%(SAT), and 93%(GRE) as an ETS in predicting which 
students would perform better, based on first-year grades of 
entering students.

Interestingly, one study found that graduate-school research
"success" was NEGATIVELY correlated with GRE scores.  The GRE is so 
bad at predicting future academic research, in fact, that most 
universities consider the GRE "optional" for admissions to graduate 
programs.  What's next?  Picking students based on lower GRE scores?   
Probably just as sound as picking students based on high SAT scores.

There were other studies which mocked the idea of an ETS test as an 
accurate predictor.  One study found that the amount of uric acid in a 
student's blood was a more accurate predictor of academic performance 
than an ETS test.  Other studies have shown that factors like height, 
hair color, and white-cell count compared favorably with an ETS's test 
"predictability.."

-- Scott Tai
   tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
   "sex, shock and satire"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: scott@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: T/ Fwd: T: To All MENSA Members...
Reply-To: tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:06:22 GMT


In article <QeQ4N2q00WB64e3UoA@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
|>As to part a, I disagree (obviously).  In many ways I _am_ more intelligent
|>than most of the population.

Yeah?  How can you prove it?

|> [...] we've always come to the
|>conclusion that a lack of education $ and facilities for the poor, who are
|>mostly minorities, as well as the social pressure not to be "too smart"
|>are the major factors in the lack of minority members.

Nice stereotype, but generally inaccurate.  The percentage of MENSA
members who are minorities doesn't even approach the relative 
percentage of minorities in college.  The lack of education and social
pressure doesn't appear to be as much of a factor as you would have
it be.

|>As I'd pointed out a long time ago, you can't join what you don't know
|>exists.  I know that Mensa has had recruitment ads in magazines for blacks,
|>for example.  If we were a "white supremacist" organization would be we
|>actively (and advertizing is active) trying to recruit members from these
|>groups?

Wrong.  There is such a thing as passive discrimination.  Despite the
plethora of MENSA advertising in minority publications (yeah, sure),
minorities will generally have a harder time making the requisite scores 
for membership.  And that sucks.

-- Scott Tai
   tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Admission to Mensa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:34:32 -0500

chrisb@wixer.cactus.org (Chris Blandy) writes:

 CB> First of all, what are the requirements of admission to Mensa?

Put briefly, a score in at least the 98th percentile on any one out of many
standardized tests.  (There are some other ways in cases of "test impairmed"
people, but I'm not at ALL familiar with the requirements.)  If you qualify on
ANY of the accepted tests, you're in.

Note that this both makes the great leap of faith from test scores to
intelligence, and (by accepting multiple tests, not to mention multiple tries at
the same test) actually lets in much more than 2%.  Mensans acknowledge this,
and consider it no big deal since the main idea is to let in "pretty smart"
folks and not get TOO picky about the exact cutoff, but Mensa-bashers love to
scream about it.

 CB> Is there a battery of skills that Mensa prefers, or will SAT scores do?

SATs will do quite nicely, as will most similar tests (like the GRE and so on). 
Mensa does not require any particular set of skills - except test-taking.  B-)

 CB>     I would also like say that this seems like an interesting place to
 CB> discuss Mensa-related ideas and activities, but why do people insist on
 CB> questioning the existence of Mensa, etc?

Heck if I know.  Feelings of inferiority?  Sour-grapes syndrome?  Maybe it's the
same sort of idiocy that engenders the "My kid can beat up your honor student!"
bumper stickers....

 CB> I though this group was called rec.org.mensa, not rec.flame.mensa!

Yes, but nobody's yet figured out the meaning of the verb "to org".  <B-)

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: T: To All MENSA Members...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:36:17 GMT

In article <14860@claris.com>, mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> In article <1992Jul27.002249.3716@ncsu.edu>, RMS0214@MVS.CC.NCSU.EDU writes:
> > 
> > 
> > In article <712134035.F00002@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> > |>nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello) writes to Scott Tai:
> > |>
> > |> n>   I admit I'm a little confused.  If I understand right, you do not
> > |> n> object to clubs restricted to people of certain, arbitrary, qualities:
> > |> n> age, religion, or certain scores on IQ tests - in general.
> > |>
> > |>If you understand his statement to that effect, perhaps.  But it completely
> > |>contradicts his angle of bashing in the past.  But then, what can we expect from
> > |>a proven liar who hides behind a nonexistent address, constructs invalid
> > |>arguments from outdated evidence, and ignores not only current data, but even
> > |>those who know what they're talking about from firsthand experience?
> > 
> > Do you have anything better to do with your time than launch
> > personal attacks on individuals attempting to do some good?
> > I have no idea who Scott Tai is, but your post is clearly a
> > personal attack which has little to do with the Mensa issue.
> > 
> > Grow up.
> 
> If that message had not come from NCSU, it might have some meaning.  Listen, Scotty
> boy, at least have the integrity to post under your own name. Take your own advice
> and grow up yourself.

Okay, this charade has gone on long enough!  You are ALL Scott Tai!
I knew it from the start, but you have played into my hands by tipping
your hat with this latest little game!  Oh, at first I wasn't quite
sure.  But then, you started arguing with yourself!  And I saw that
the flames were quite symmetrical EACH time!  And with my Giant
Mensa Brain, I quickly deduced a fiendish plot to generate multiple
GMSs, under different assumed names.  So now, it boils down to this,
Mr. Tai/Bertsch/Aronson/Steiner/etc.!  Just us two!!  Ha!

Have at thee, scoundrel(s)!!  The game's afoot!

GM("Who Am I This Time?")S

-- Computer E-mail Ventriloquists: the Mimes of the Tomorrow!
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ vs. Faith
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:13:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.013709.22431@cs.mcgill.ca>, mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR) writes:
> >>Do I detect a note of sarcasm?
> >>
> >  Not at all.
>  
> Personally, I thought the Scott-Mike feud was incindiary.
>  
> >>What about the Reed Sea?

I think that's why saxophones have those little valves on the bottom.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa