From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Death of America
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:28:01 GMT

cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>>if you want to see where the US will be in five years, look 
>>>north of the border. especially anyome who covets canada's 
>>>despicable health care system.
>>
>>Other than insurance, what else is Canada's so-called "system"?
>>(BTW, I'm Canadian and have lived and worked in many provinces.)
>>Factor out geography, low population, its lop-sided distribution,
>>a monopoly of private doctors just like America ... what else???
>
>the "insurance" was my point, and it is obscene enough to make
>the system despicable, IMO, regardless of the rest of it.

So what's the problem with it?  I've pointed out the problems with our
system that have *always* been there ...  maybe you want that people
should go without insurance and run up gigantic tabs later for others
to pay?

>>Just trying to add perspective here ... we Canadians don't think
>>much about how we do our health care, and tend to think that there
>>is more government involved (it's only insurance) than there really 
>>is when you start to break things down ...
>
>you see?  that is the kind of attitude that is dangerous. 
>"it's only insurance". right.

So what's the problem?  Take out every other factor that could be
duplicated in the American private system (hard, 'cos there are
things that they do here that we don't do up north, like cut off
and weasel on payments) and ... where's the government?

>>by the way, if you know
>>anyone who works for the Canadian insurance industry in London, ON
>>they can tell you that our private insurers are glad that they did
>>not stay in basic medical coverage when they off-loaded it onto the
>>public sector (do you know who Paul Martin, Sr. was?).
>
>i don't know who he was. maybe you could tell us a little more if
>you know more about that sub-topic.

Paul Martin, Sr. died a couple of months ago and his bio was in all
the papers (even the New York Times; otherwise, I rely on UPI).  The
only reason I know anything about this topic is that as a Canadian,
I've been asked a million times about our "socialized medicine" and
have had to think about it to realize ... it's not!

Real socialized medicine is what the British Atlee Labour government
set up in their National Health Service; the continentals (Germany,
France, Holland, etc.) set up their health insurance as an incremental
step to prevent socialized medicine if a Labour-style party took the
next election.  Our Liberals did the same thing with Paul Martin,
Sr.'s Canada Health Act under PM Lester "Mike" Pearson's Liberal
federal government, partly in response to Tommy Douglas and the NDP
who were trying to move Saskatchewan towards an NHS-style system.
Paul Martin, Sr. was the MP for London, Ontario, which is Canada's
insurance capital just like Hartford, CT is for the United States.  

In my home province, Manitoba, the insurance plan was set up by Walter
Weir's Conservative government and my dad's lawyer friend (who now
heads a major private hospital philanthropy) was involved in the legal
work transitioning basic medical coverage and liabilities from private
insurance (which was not a significant player in the 1960's, when
people mostly paid cash).  Last spring, a Quebec private insurance
organization issued a warning against the Quebec provincial health
minister's (Marc-Yvan Cote') public murmurings about privatizing 
parts of the Quebec plan ... ever since offloading basic medical, 
our private insurance has been covering amenities like private and
semi-private rooms, telephone, etc. that are not part of the life-
and-death treatment process (if you've worked full-time, it is how
your company provides you with those benefits).  If you're convinced
that basic medical health care is a market thang, you'll have to try
and convince our private health insurers who don't believe so (and,
apparently, so have the American ones).

So ... what's the problem?

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
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