HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: records-database
In-reply-to: Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com's message of Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:45:52 PDT
Organization: pubs
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:20:26 CDT

Bill Pearce writes:

   ... One could use a simpler flat field database manager for this
   purpose too.  As with most such [relational] programs, Alpha Four 
   allows you to set up whatver kind of format you want ...

Bill, I think your second statement above (and its implications) is the
best argument against the first statement.  Data about recordings is
actually pretty complex and difficult to manage effectively.  Although I
haven't bit the bullet and done the work yet, I've thought about how I
want to approach it.  My main aim for a recordings database would be to
eliminate redundant typing while allowing complete flexibility in how
the data is retrieved.  I think this aim requires a fully relational
database (such as Alpha 4, Personal RBase and not many others).  

In other words I would have separate tables of recordings (by number),
performers, composers, works, etc.  Each table item would be typed only
once.  A table item would point to items in other tables.  The table of
recordings would need to occupy a central position in this structure.
With this structure, you could inquire about all the pieces played by a
certain performer, all the recordings of composer X played by performer
Y, etc.  Any less flexibility would greatly reduce my motivation to
create a recordings database.

Maybe we should hear from Dave Lampson on how *he* structures his data
(or anyone else with such a system already operating).

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Preparing vs. was-Re: Supertitling
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:46:45 GMT
	<1992Sep02.124921.29301@lloyd.Camex.COM>
	<1992Sep4.013431.19617@indetech.com>
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA

In article <1992Sep4.013431.19617@indetech.com> dl@indetech.com (David
Lieberman) writes:

   Everybody praises the Andrew Porter translations.  I have never heard
   any of them.  Perhaps they are wonderful.  I read his criticism
   in the New Yorker for 20 years.  He may write wonderful verse but 
   reading his prose was a real chore.  The rules of English syntax
   seemed to him a mystery to be.

Perhaps that's why he could translate successfully (he didn't let the
rules of English syntax get in the way of creating rhyme schemes).

	Penny
--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse)
Subject: Parsifal
Keywords: wagner,parsifal,boulez
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:35:05 GMT

In a magazine I saw an announcement of the release of Boulez' Bayreuth
live-recording of Parsifal. Can anybody on the net please tell me how this
one compares to Karajan, Solti, Barenboim or others?

Bart Gerritse
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Top Five Russian Operas (was: Top Ten Operas)
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:28:37 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

In article <BtnpyK.JL8@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.110907.1@gsbacd.uchicago.edu> ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:

     <text deleted>

What are the top five Russian operas?

-- Brad Pierce --
From: rob@cs.man.ac.uk (Robert Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Schoeck
Date: 2 Sep 92 11:51:58 GMT
	<1992Sep1.152055.29447@Princeton.EDU>
	<1992Sep1.170656.7127@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Sep1.184328.19459@fid.morgan.com>
Reply-To: rajm@cs.man.ac.uk
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: steve@fid.morgan.com's message of 1 Sep 92 18:43:28 GMT

> On 1 Sep 92 18:43:28 GMT, steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) said:

Steve> Swiss, wasn't he?  I used to own a couple of F-D Schoeck
Steve> song-collections, but found them ... not too interesting.
Steve> There's at least one opera on CD, _Mass--- Don---_, fragments
Steve> of whose title are all I have to offer.  I've wondered whether
Steve> it's worth investigating, and would appreciate opinions.

Also Pelisanthea (sp?) unfortunately, I've never heard it.

Steve> For what it's worth, there seems to be an abundance of Schoeck's work on
Steve> disk, mostly lieder.
Not this side of the pond unfortunately.

Robert

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A.J.Marshall,		EMAIL: rmarshall@cs.man.ac.uk
Room 3.08, IT Building, Department of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: (+44) 61-275 6269          Fax: (+44) 61-275 6280
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sampels@colores.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Sampels)
Subject: Chopin's Studies
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik  /  RWTH Aachen
Date:  3 Sep 92 15:39:32 GMT

I am looking for a good recording of Chopin's Studies. Today, I
went to the CD shop and listened to Gavrillov's recording. This
is too fast and too loud at many pieces, I think. Who can tell
me something about other recordings? What about Askenazy or even
Arrau?

Michael
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: VOCAL Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:15:29 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Aug24.165830.29702@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, altizer@figaro (Robert Altizer) writes:
> After all the instrumental music recommendations, how about some for vocal music
> for a wedding?  (I appear as the singer.)  What I'd like to see are your picks for:
> 
>   1) Male solo (baritone or bass-baritone)
>   2) Female solo (lyric soprano)
>   3) Duet (above voices)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

For agile voices, you can't go wrong with the duet from Bach's
Cantata #140.  Works in either a secular or sacred wedding
service.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: pck@mdf.mitre.org (Peter Krupp)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: STEINWAY
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:05:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: MITRE

In article <72750008@hpjsdo.kobe.hp.com>, yoshi@hpjsdo.kobe.hp.com (Kazuo
Yoshizaki) wrote:
> 
> Sometime ago, I read in the paper that Steinway was going to build a plant
> in Japan. Does anybody know when it will start operation and where the plant is?
> 
> K. Yoshizaki - JSDO/Yokogawa Hewlett Packard

You are probably referring to a new, less expensive line of pianos made by
Steinway in partnership with Yamaha or Kawai, I believe, called the Boston
piano.  I've seen and played the Boston piano both at the Steinway stores
in New York City and Boston.  The Boston piano has been available for a
while and if you would like to know more about its manufacture you could
contact the Steinway dealer in Tokyo.  

The Boston piano is priced less than the Steinway and has a different,
brighter tone.  The quality of the Boston piano is probably somewhat lower
than the Steinway (in my opinion) and is probably directly related to the
price.

P. Krupp

The MITRE Corporation

My opinions are strictly my own and not necessarily those of my employer.
From: jcm+@CS.CMU.EDU (Chris McGlone)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Glenn Gould CBC videos
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:00:16 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

I saw in the NY Times yesterday that the Metropolitan Museum will be showing 
some of Glenn Gould's CBC broadcasts this season, along with a lecture by
Tim Page and a performance of one of his string quartets.  I saw the videos
when the Met did this a few years ago, and was wondering if the videos are 
available for rental or sale.  

BTW, if you haven't seen them they're worth the trouble. Having never seen Gould
in concert, I was amazed at his hand and finger technique, and appalled at the
positions he assumed.
From: 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: William Bolcom's  _McTeague_
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:39:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.124956.16151@news.duc.auburn.edu>, seidman@eng.auburn.edu (Stephen Seidman) writes:
> At the end of the novel, McTeague dies miserably in Death Valley, handcuffed to the
> body of his pursuer.  The "drowning in wheat" ending comes from another Norris novel,
> but I've forgotten whether it is "The Octopus" or "The Pit".

I believe the drowning-in-grain scene comes from _The Octopus_.  I confused the
two in my first posting, and the 1950 date came from our OPAC database. 
Obviously I should have looked into it more thoroughly before pontificating. 
_McTeague_ is still a not very memorable novel, and the thought of sitting
through ten hours of movie on it does not thrill.  Maybe ABC could condense
that into a miniseries.

Herb Stahlke
Ball State University

  
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Cardew and "people's music"
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:27:18 GMT

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
: Cardew's actual practice suggests your "presumably" is wild fantasizing.

No, it means that Cardew's practice didn't follow his theory.

: It would be interesting to compare the programming of Soviet orchestras
: under Stalin with those of typical American orchestras under their
: corporate-influenced dictatorships.  Were they very different?

Yes it would - how much Krennikov or Tschedrin was plyed in the US.
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Candide broadcast
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:04:39 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Sep2.041607.17352@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:

>The broadcast
>has cut the first syphilis aria (the "Dear Boy" that Jon refers to,
>to my mind the better of the two) so I could not see this, which I was
>looking forward to after Jon's note.  

That's very strange.  The only time I've seen this video was its
previous telecast by A&E, and it was definitely included then.  Surely
they didn't shorten it this time around!  Did it fill a 2-hour timeslot?
(Having taped it before, I didn't bother this time.)

>I should say that I find Green
>vastly charming, and would tend to thing that a better singer would
>be a worse instantiation of the role.

Well, we don't want a James Morris.  But an operetta-weight comedy
baritone (the sort who does Gilbert and Sullivan) would be an
improvement, in my opinion.  Max Adrian in the original cast is a good
example of what I'm thinking of.  Yes, Green is charming, and of course
he and Lenny go way back.  But to have *such* a yowling tone production
makes for an odd match with the rest of the cast, in this instance all
of international opera weight.

>The broadcast also omitted the "boredom" song of the two women and,
>more drastically, the whole scene in which Candide meets anti-Pangloss
>("Don't make me laugh") and his swindling by the ship merchant ("Bon
>voyage") and -- perhaps my favorite piece in the whole work -- the
>kings' barcarolle.  I *do* hope that the "undedited" video tape being
>flogged during the broadcast supplies some or all of these omissions.

??  All these were in the telecast I saw last winter.  What went on here???

>Was this version ever staged?  

Not QUITE this version (versions are always complicated questions with
CANDIDE).  Lenny made his own amendments and additions for this concert,
the only time he conducted it.  But the basic text is that of the
"Scottish Opera Version," which has been around since 1989 and is the
current standard rental text.  I understand there was a video of that
production (directed by Jonathan Miller), shown in the UK but never in
the US.  It may not contain all the numbers seen in this concert -- for
one, I believe they eventually cut "Quiet" as too awkward to incorporate
onstage.

The audio recording of the Scottish Opera production, on TER, was
contractually restricted from including any "first recordings" of any
music (singers for the Kings are credited on the package, but they are
never heard), so has only the stuff on the original Broadway album, plus
Candide's Lament.  Its Cunegonde is the best on records, though:  Marilyn
Hill Smith.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Top Ten Operas (was Re: La Traviata)
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 21:09:02 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I, too, am against these lists. But, since I can't resist the urge, I'll blurt
my favorite 10 out.

1. Don Giovanni

Next level:
Falstaff
Il Trovatore
Elektra
Tristan

Next:
Cosi fan tutte (Act I may be the greatest single act in opera. The trouble is
that even the second act of Cosi can't follow it).
Otello (Verdi, of course)
Fidelio

At this point, I have to work. I won't eliminate any of the following:
Aida
Gotterdammerung
Semiramide (for the last two years! I'll get over it, I know.)
Peter Grimes
Tosca

And then, there are individual acts:
Act I, Walkure;
Act I, Italiana in Algeri;
Act II, Carmen;
Act IV, Don Carlo
Act I Barber of Seville

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus)
Subject: Re: Marilyn Horne
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:23:43 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Ken Sherrill) writes:
>> You must be thinking of Shirley Verrett.
>
>This is deliriously looney.  Shirley Verrett is often mistaken
>for Marilyn Horne?  Or for Lena Horne?  Or for Martina Arroyo?
>Who's mistaken for Leontyne Price.  Is Marilyn Horne related
>to Leontyne Price?

No, no, that's _Margaret_ Price.  In fact, it's just as easy to mistake
Leontyne for Margaret Price as it is to mistake Lena for Marilyn Horne.

Pieter Hazewindus				pieter@cs.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:12:06 GMT

smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes: 
: I am not sure how you intended to use the word "normally."  I doubt that mental
: states can be represented in some metric space within which it would make sense
: to attempt to characterize a Gaussian distribution.  

Actually I did mean that - only as a metaphor, but as a Cageian you will
recognise the validity of using such a metaphor. 

: If you mean it in the more
: informal sense--the existence of some norm from which most samples depart in
: only some insignificant manner (without trying to quantify any of this)--I
: would still be skeptical. 

I meant both. Surely the development of the "canon" would be p.f.
evidence for that. 

: Yes, we can say that, within one of your
: "micro-cultures" there is some body of experiences one can assume to
: be shared by most (if not all) members of the culture.  However, this
: does not mean that all those members map a common experience to a common
: mental state.

Your reductio argument uses instances of music, not of musically-derived
mental states. I maintain that (to invoke a transcendental argt.) the
existence of the canon, ragged round the edges though it is, would
presuppose the necessarry conditions for it to exist. (And I don't
accept a "cultural hegemony" argument as a reply).

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
Subject: Lyric Opera Schedule (was: proposal to this list)
Organization: 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:58:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.145326.438@cine88.cineca.it>, Marco Simionato <simion@iveuncc.unive.it> writes:
> This is a proposal I make, which I hope will meet wide success!
> I was thinking that it might be very useful, and interesting, if
> people who live in places where there are big musical seasons posted
> the programmes for opera houses, music halls and festivals.

This sounds like a good idea so as a start I'll post the schedule for the Lyric
Opera of Chicago for '92-'93.

Otello (Rossini) - Renzetti/ Cuberli, Merritt, Blake, Croft, Runey, Maultsby
		 Sept.19,23,26,30. Oct.2,5,10,13.

Elektra (Strauss) - Slatkin/ Marton (*Zschau*), Rysanek, Secunde, Johnson,
			     Busse
		 Sept 29, Oct 3,8,12,16*,21*,26*,30*.

The Bartered Bride (Smetana) - In English
		     Bartoletti/Daniels, Rosenshein, Rose, Clark, Gamberoni
		 Oct 9,14,17,19,24,27, Nov 1,4,7.

McTeague (Bolcom)	 
		    D.R.Davies/ Heppner, Malfitano, Nolen, Golden
		 Oct 31, Nov 3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24.

Pelleas et Melisande (Debussy) - Conlon/von Stade, Hadley, Braun, Kavrakos,
			 	       	Minton	
		Nov 14,17,20,23,27,30. Dec 2,5.

Un Ballo in Maschera (Verdi) - Gatti/Sweet, Johannsson, Chernov, Toczyska,
				     Norberg-Schulz
		Nov 28. Dec 1,4,7,11,16,19 .
			       R.Buckley/Voigt, Ichihara, Gavanelli, Cossotto,
					 Blackwell
                Feb 5, 10, 14 .

La Boheme (Puccini) - Bartoletti/Mazzaria, Sabbatini (*Farina*), Summers,
				 Lawrence          
              	Dec 12,15,18,20,30*. Jan 2*,5,8,11,16,22.


Das Rheingold (Wagner) - Mehta/Morris, Wlaschiha, McCauley, Troyanos, Holle,
			       Ryhanen, Terfel, Martinpelto, Maultsby, Mark
			       Baker, Petersen, Gibbons, Manhart, Redmon.
		Jan 23,26,29. Feb 1,3,6,9,12.	


All performances are in their original languages with English Supertitles
except for the Bartered Bride which is in English translation with English
titles. All performances except the ones listed below start at 7:30 p.m.
The exceptions are Sept 19 (7:00 p.m), Nov 1, 15, Dec 5, 20, Feb 14 (2:00 p.m).
Tickets range from US $18 - $94. For more information please contact :

Lyric Opera of Chicago
20 N.Wacker Drive
Chicago, IL 60606.
(312) 332-2244.

						- Alak Chakravorty
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:33:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.215902.8691@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve
Apter) writes:
>
>You appear willing to write off Cardew's left-wing totalitarianism as
>merely consisting of occasional "loopy statements", and praise him for
>never attempting to "ram his politics down anyone's throat" (as though
>your average maoist actually cared about what people believe).
>
>But even apart from this, it is not difficult to find instances
>of Cardew inveighing against "bourgeois" composers in language
>that would make Brian Yoder blush.  Oh of course, that's just 
>*polemic*:
>
>	"And seated over everything, the mythic heroes on
>	their thrones:  Schonberg, Stravinsky, Ives, Webern,
>	Stockhausen, and Cage, who have given their lives
>	(and souls) in the struggle to find, for the bourgeoisie,
>	a way out of the stifling moribundity of bourgeois
>	music."
>
THIS is your idea of dangerous writing?  I would sooner cast my vote for
"loopy," just because I cannot imagine all those thrones being particularly
close to each other.  If this is Maoism because of the attitude it expresses
towards the bourgeoisie, then given what Moses did to the worshippers of the
Golden Calf, he must have been the ultimate Maoist.  Could it be that you
cannot tell the difference between someone who wants EPATER LE BOURGEOISIE
and someone who wants to line them up at the wall and shoot them?
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sergiu Celibidache
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:51:08 GMT
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de's message of Sat, 29 Aug 92 01:26:45 GMT


I've been interested in Celibidache mainly because of his reputation.
(His uncompromising image always makes his name look to me like a
cognate of "celibate", though I doubt his asceticism goes in that
direction.)  So what recordings *do* exist, to give us a sense of why
he's so revered?

Chris Brewster
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Disc recommendations wanted
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:02:27 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)

I have noted that previously when people have posted recommendations
for contemporary music here, I often have liked the music, and bought
the CD (if I have found it here).  For instance, I hadn't earlier
heard of John Moran. Then somebody here mentioned his Mansion Family
opera. I came across it a few weeks later, remembered the
recommendation, listened to it, liked it, and bought it.

Please post more recommendations for CDs with contemporary music by
(relatively) obscure composers! Is there any magazine that specializes
in "modern" and contemporary music, without being too theoretical? I
have read one issue of "Wire", but it is maybe a bit too
jazz-oriented.
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: The Essential John Cage
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:44:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.145444.5542@Princeton.EDU> jwp@dobro.Princeton.EDU ()
writes:
>
>Cheap Imitation (1969): Wergo (piano); CP2 (Paul  Zukofsky,  vio-
>lin).   The  version  of this piece that Cage loved the most--the
>one for orchestra--has never been recorded, and, because  of  its
>difficulty,  is almost never performed.  A full orchestra perfor-
>mance (which has never occurred) would be beautiful, indeed.
>
I have not seen the Wergo recording, so I do not know who the pianist is.
However, Cramps (published in Milan) has a CD of Cage himself performing
this.  I believe the recording was made not long after the work was composed
(at a time when Cage played it regularly every time the Cunningham company
performed "Second Hand").
>
>Empty Words (1974):  Wergo (John Cage, reading).   Performed  to-
>gether  with  parts of the Song Books, this is only an excerpt of
>Empty Words.
>
Cramps has a 2-CD recording of a live performance of the third part of this
work (complete with the audience riot which took place during the performance).
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical