Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:57:25 IST
From: <X67107@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Mr. Nikolayev (long)
 <92323.173618X67107@BARILVM.BITNET> <1992Nov19.093614.12806@news.acns.nwu.edu>

I had pointed out the high qulity of Mr. Ab Enoit (to whom I reffered as
Chaveleh) advice, to another young critic and added that his criticsm was
perhaps misdirected.
Marek Lungowski in his eloquent replay commented

>>... the only piece of advice that that I have I have seen  on rec.art.poems
>>for a long time.

>I beg your pardon. There are oodles of noodles of constructive criticism
>on rec.arts.poetry each week. Is the Israeli Defense Department culling
>your newsfeed or something? R.a.p. is something of a conflict territory,
>but I did not know we were under a military censorship. Then again,
>perhaps you just weren't paying attention.  Tsk, tsk.

To the best of my knowledge the Israeli Defence department is not censoring
the 'newsfeed', although this is remotly possible. But then maybe the CIA
is scrmbling the critical posts and leaving the poetry intact! (The use of
this media to pass info in the form of codded poetry is far more sensible)

On a more serious note, I have been getting plenty of critical posts
A very large percentage of which was posted by the above mentioned Marek.
Although his form is somewhat better then the average, My final verdict
is that it too is lacking. I must confess that I have not read all the
critics around here, but the one I did were ofthen unobjective (bigoted)
and most 're'-postings were argument concering semantics or discussion of
random topics unrealated to the initial poetry.

I need not go finger pointing, but dear Readr examine any discussion of
your choice and you WILL find that the situation discribed is not a
generalization, but the sad truth.

If, and when, the critics around here start to criticize poetry instead of
each other we will stop seeing the phenomenm of psuo-critics (and hunging-
critics like Nicolayev the barberian :) )

To wit....

>>If Nico is a fool why should we be distracted by his pathetic imitation of
>>criticism. If he believed what he said about "Good Poetry", if such realy
>>exists, then he wouldn't have acted such an intolerable thorn in the butt.

>I'm not distracted. I am taking furious notes. It is not every day that
>Harvard education is made available to the masses, and for free. Think of
>this as a correspondence course and lap it up.

But Marek you are distracted, reforming or distroying a person like Nico on
the net is not 'FREE Havard Education' rather it is a waste of time.


Now the rest of my post was was in a lighter vain, where I gave three coices
to the pathetic N person.


>>But if Niko is so obstitantly intolerable of imperfect verse,
>>He has only these three practical choices:

>(baited breath)
                   :)
>>1 Learn Hebrew and read the 'Song of Solomon' in the original form :)

>Actually, I would recommend on the same level Ms. Coffin's "Song of
>Solomon's Girlfriend", which although slightly less aged and therefore
>not as full-bodied in its after taste (am I getting the wine talk down,
>Mary Anne?), has the advantages of being readily available from Ms. Coffin,
>and if you e-smile to her kindly, she might even post the non-Hebrew
>version, to facilitate comprehension without learning Hebrew.  After all,
>Hebrew, unlike Italian, actually has the property of needing to be learned
>before idiomatic use.

The munificent Ms. Coffin did, without delay her 'master piece' which I quote
in full but reformated to conform with the orthodox nature of my post {clearly
she will not mind the double exposure and subsequent doubled glory IF it's any
good} notice that I put my humbly satirical comments in curly brackets

                                  / MARIE COFFIN \
Song of Solomon's Girlfriend     <  MARIE COFFIN  >
                                  \ MARIE COFFIN /

My love is like a roe upon the mountaintops
he has embarrassed me to tears.               {K.Slomon would not commit such
Oh, my love,                                   a crime...he might send her to
how, tell me how, tell me how                  the battle front though}
could you talk about
my breasts?

And now                                        {racial discrimintion was
the entire known world has learned              unknown among the hebrews
that my skin                                    of THAT period. The kept
is dark.                                        Slaves instead of heaving
                                                debter's prisons and salvery
                                                lasted less then seven years)
{we may conclude that the poem is not based on the historical facts of
King Solomon's period, but on the fancys of the poet. It is quite apparent
that Ms Coffin, if she bothered to read the song of salomon, has missed the
point of the great work. Many centuries of theological debates have established
that the Song of Solomon is NOT to be interperated as just another love song,
but rather as an expresion of solomons love for his religion and the old
testement. The liberal use of armorous aleglories in the text serves to make
this point unclear.
However the girlfriend poem may have some hidden poetical virtue though clearly
not one of rhyming or metre or other estetical efect which it seams to be
lacking}

O God!
I could just die.

Why, oh why, I wonder why
can't you write poems like all the other guys
about the limpid pools of darkness
that are my eyes?
(Because they aren't.
Right at the moment, in fact,
they look like flint.)

Well then my nose.
Or no -- not that.
It's always been
an embarrassment to me.
I guess
you could write a poem in praise of
my hands.
I think I mentioned them
somewhere.)

{is seems that the subject was expecting something like
       Your hands are like the creamy hills
           That bear both honey and the grape,
       Each nail in me awaken's secret thrills
           That English word could never ape.

       Your fingers are ten monuments to joy
            They bring to birth the canvass
       With harmonic colours gay, yet coy;
            So much like you, sweet lass.  }

But these other parts are right out
of the question!
(Why are some parts ok but some
are not?)
Because.
Because.
Because it's my body.
(Yes, but it's my poem.)

Arise!  Oh daughters of Jerusalem
go find my love
awaken him -- if that is possible
-- I can't get through to him --
and tell him
I wouldn't marry him
if he were the last man
on earth.

Instead, I shall wear black for life
and write
bitter satiric verses
in which
I reveal to his peers
the exact shortcomings
of his anatomical parts.
(then I'll tell everyone what's
really in your navel)
(Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord.....)
Oh, shut up!

{so now we finaly get to the point of the poem, how romantic. Of the Satiric
I sense very little. The way I see it, this poem could have been enhanced by
use of beautiful phrazes and aloglories of the original, and from that point
attempting to effect the satire. I have one question to the poet,
if she  looks beatifull in black?}



 >>2 Read the inferior (but nevertheless magnifcent) works of the famous English
>>  poets.(I recommend Byron and Tenysson, but each person and his taste)
>
>I agree that reading the abovementioned inferior poets is a passable choice.
>I hasten, however, to recommend with greater insistence the works of exterior
>poets, both famous and obscure, blond and brunette, of many other tongues
>than English. The preferrable thing about the exterior poet is that
>everything is, you know, out in the open, or at least, abutting a large
>waterway, sea, or a lake.  Anytime there is water imagery in poetry you
>can bank on sexual imagery being either implied or made explicit, and, to
>quote a famous American poet, that's a good thang.

To sum up my opinions concerning the exterior poets and there works. By
stating their intentions to obviosly they lose the esthetic part of their work


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