HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 07:34:24 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<lalhckINNklr@aludra.usc.edu> mueller@aludra.usc.edu (Stephen Mueller) writes:
>I was wondering what everyone thought about the episode(s) in which
>Joel and Maggie share the hotel room, Maggie gets drunk and passes
>out before they finally sleep together, and then both lie and argue.
>
>Is Maggie entirely to blame? I wasn't really siding with either
>(since they both lied) until Maggie left Joel on the couch.
>
>Are there any women (or men) who actually feel that Maggie acted
>anything but cruely? 

The first time we saw the episode my wife thought that Maggie was
treated badly by Joel.  I didn't.  After we saw the recent re-run my
wife changed her mind.  We both understood Joel's irritation with
Maggie falling asleep while his libido was wide awake.  He was content
to just sort of write it off as 'another negative thing about Maggie'
until she lied about remembering it.  He then basically 'let her'
remember it the way she wanted to.

However, I (and my wife now) think Maggie was completely cruel to Joel
in town when she didn't want anyone to know because she "didn't want
anyone to think she'd actually sleep with him" like he was some
disgusting thing, that people would think less of her because it was
Joel.  That was a cruel thing to do to a man or a woman (How many women
out there would have thought Joel was a total jerk if he was in
Maggie's place and it was Marilyn instead of Maggie.  If Joel had said,
"Gee Marilyn, don't tell anyone I slept with *you*.  I'd be so
embarrassed.")

Personally I felt that the episode was an interesting statement on the
male understanding (or lack thereof) of the female.  If we get agressive
(Maggie wanted Joel to "have her" while she was asleep) then we are
uncontrolled animals who only think with our genitals.  If we are passive
we get accused of being gay, uninterested, or boring.  In this case
Joel respected Maggie and she threw a fit over it.  Don't get me wrong, I
enjoyed the humor of the episode.  I just think it was at the expense of a
serious women's issue - date rape.


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
From: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Best Episode
Keywords: life, flinging, cow, piano
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:55:08 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Sep8.155256.27975@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>
>	My vote for best episode goes to the "Rosalyn & Cicely"
>episode! I was glued to my television set, and did not move from my
>spot for the entire hour (I was watching it with a friend of mine, and
>we spent the commercial time chatting about the episode).  Everyone


Amen.
And Chris is *still* a weenie !

Scott Wells
<wells@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Snappy .sig file in committee
From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Date: 10 Sep 1992 10:37:50 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: boogie.cs.utexas.edu

In article <laou99INN4b9@cypress.cs.utexas.edu> varvel@cs.utexas.edu
(Donald A. Varvel) writes:

>OK.  I can't stand it any longer.  Will *somebody* explain it?
>He couldn't wake her up.  He did the only possible thing at the
>time (didn't he??) and she chewed him out for it.  Playing along
>with her lie is another matter -- I think that was kind of cute,
>but I can understand her being irritated about it.  To me, from
>that point, Maggie simply stopped being an interesting character.

Why does everybody assume that Joel's only two choices were giving up
and bonking her while she was asleep?  What about trying more
fun/sexy/creative ways of waking her up? Bouncing on the bed, nibbling
on the neck, etc.?  I can think of alternative scenarios -- why can't
he?  Of course, imagination has never been Joel's strong point.



Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: "Bob Montante" <bobmon@sandshark.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Adam Arkin (not Alan Arkin)
Organization: dyskaryotic
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:06:47 -0500

lhartman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lori L Hartman) <1992Sep9.134145.17689@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> :
| 
| Alan Arkin (Adam) also played in the movie "The Doctor" with William Hurt.  
| Arkin played a mildly eccentric surgeon who talked to his patients while 
| operating.


Excuse me, but that's Adam Arkin playing "Adam".  I gotta believe
he is Alan Arkin's son.  (Looks like... sounds like...)
From: bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Favorite Episodes
Date: 13 Sep 92 20:40:01 GMT
Organization: HHMI/Human Genetics, Univ of Pa.

In article <1992Sep13.125321.19455@ms.uky.edu>, kaveh@ms.uky.edu 
(Kaveh Baharestan) writes:

> Founding of Cicely Flashback
> 		I really liked the parallelisms, very P.K. Dick
> 		Ed the Wolf Boy... that was rich

Speaking of Ed the Wolf Boy (I loved that bit) I caught a little piece of
a very bad movie on TV today.  It seemed to be about a tough independant
woman in the old west.  In the scene I saw she found a grimy, homeless,
hungry young man on the street, and fed him, cleaned him up, slicked back
his hair, and taught him how to read and write.  None of this was actually
shown...they sorta jumped from her finding him, to the two of them writing
at a table.  (She was learning too)

But the parallels to the Rosalyn and the Wolf Boy relationship are obvious.
Any one have a clue what this movie was?

Greg Bole                                         "Well ya killed the hell 
bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu                       outa that fellow today."
                                                Clint Eastwood in _Unforgiven
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: bloom-debbie@CS.YALE.EDU (Deborah Faith Berman)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure book
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:19:29 GMT

In article <08nnbc.dslee@netcom.com> dslee@netcom.com (Donna S. Lee) writes:

>
>BTW, I'm delighted to see this newsgroup come into
>existence--it's about damn time! Let's all get together for a
>road trip to Seattle!
>-- 
> Donna S. Lee // EC Technology // dslee@netcom.com

I can't wait to get the book!  I am also happy with the existence
of this newsgroup.  But I think you mean Roslyn.  I live in Seattle,
and they definitely don't film the show here.  But it's a great place
to visit anyway!  And Roslyn isn't *that* far away.

Debbie

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: boulton@netcom.com (David A. Boulton)
Subject: Re: wow.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 07:17:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <9SEP199212023696@acad3.alaska.edu> asfjp@acad3.alaska.edu
(Frederick J. Polsky V1.0) writes:
>I was born in Cicely.. I remember the first time I took the drive to Sleetmute
>and caught the train to Anchorage... wow, that was a time.
>

I always thought the name of the 'big' town near Cicely was "Sleep
Mute". Is this just another mondegreen on my part? I always thought
Sleep Mute was an odd, but interesting name for an Alaskan town.

Does anyone have an Official Northern Exposure Glossary and
Pronunciation Guide?  :-)



-- 
-- David A. Boulton                 | knowledge is just a polite
-- boulton@netcom.com               | term for dead, 
-- Peregrine Associates             | but not buried imagination.
-- POB 1385 Redwood City, CA 94064  |           -- e.e. cummings
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Reasons for fandom
Date: 8 Sep 1992 23:26:58 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: muleshoe.cs.utexas.edu

In article <emcphers.715999015@mik.uky.edu> emcphers@mik.uky.edu (Frank McPherson) writes:
>In <1992Sep7.021049.740@reed.edu> ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon) writes:

>>One of my favorite things about the show is how the characters
>>integrate an odd intellectualism with their small-town, almost
>>wilderness existence. (Hopefully this makes sense. :) )

>	This is also true.  I LOVE the chess game on the episode which
>played last night.  Everyone in town was sitting in the audience.  People
>who aren't normally very intellectual were questioning moves and offering
>their own alternatives.  Not a very long scene, but it's a pretty good
>example of what you're talking about.  

I also thought the fight over the bridge game was a riot.

I like the odd touches of intellectualism.  Each, individually,
fits into such an isolated village, although in totality they
are a little hard to believe.

Once I was a house parent at a group home for deliquents on an
Indian reservation.  A couple of the kids went with a friend to
a movie in a nearby town (there being no movies in the agency
settlement).  They got drunk afterwards and proceeded to try to
set a land speed record while driving home.  The ambulance
attendants called the cops because they couldn't get the drunk
and injured and stunned kids into the ambulance.  It took two
cops apiece to restrain them.

In the morning the ambulance attendant entered their room with
some trepidation, only to find the boys playing chess.

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
From: salomone@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (John ($al) Salomone)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Tonight's episode
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:00:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

Sorry to have to say this, but to answer the question of whether to save the
cat or the Rembrandt, I have to say that I would save the Rembrandt.  MONEY!
Come on.  Think about it!

-- 
   _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/       _/_/         John R. Salomone, UCLA CS Dept.
  _/    _/  _/        _/     _/    _/        3680A Boelter Hall
 _/    _/  _/        _/     _/_/_/_/         Los Angeles, CA  90024
_/    _/  _/        _/     _/    _/          Office Phone:  (310) 825-8524
 _/_/    _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/ _/    _/           Internet:  salomone@cs.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: afalcone@oak.math.ucla.edu (Anthony Falcone)
Subject: A weird theory
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 17:49:51 GMT


To all NE fans,

This is a great idea for a Newsgroup...

Someone mentioned a very good and interesting point about the show,
viz., that it isn't reasonable (nor would NE maintain its quirky
nature for very long) if the characters reacted in a "normal" fashion.
Specifically, the thread concerned Maggie's reaction to Joel's not
"taking" her when he had the chance.  To most, Joel's predicament
appears as a no-win deal: had he slept with Maggie when she was
comatose, he is a lout, whereas, by not jumping her, he is rejecting
her.  Hence, Joel is forced to deal with what he feels is an untenable
situation, while being berated by some around him (Marilyn (who,
parenthetically, is a great character), Ruth-Ann) for just not
"getting it".  The town's mentality comes across as Zen-like: you
shouldn't have to ask, you should just know.

Now, the weird theory: I think NE is the grandchild of "Green Acres".
I can just hear the guffaws as you read this, but I am serious: Joel is
the spiritual child of Eddy Albert's character, Oliver Douglas, and
Cicely is the Hooterville of the Arctic Circle.  The premise is pretty
similar (except that Douglas willingly moved to the country, while
Joel is there, ostensibly, against his will): one man represents the
rational, while all around him people do the strangest things, which
he believes absurd.  However, in the end, more often than not there
are reasons for the way people behave that make sense in the context
of their lives.

BTW, to whomever asked about why we like the show: one reason has got
to be the quality of the writing.  We discover much about the
characters by what they say as well as by what they do, which means
that unlike 75% of other TV, you actually have to pay attention to
what is being said, or you miss much if what goes on.

Finally, I really liked last season's final episode (the historical
flashback).  I didn't see "Fried Green Tomatoes", so I can't comment
on any resemblences, but I felt it was a fitting way to end the
season.  In fact, the only episode that's ever disappointed me was the
one where Maurice was going to fight the duel, and they all of a
sudden stepped out of characters to talk about what kind of show they
were doing.  This was just too "Moonlighting"-esque for me; it seemed
like kind of a cop-out.  Otherwise, I usually leave feeling pretty
satisfied after each show.

P.S. to Texas football fan: in LA, MNF starts at 6 pm; I get to watch
both!

Tony Falcone (afalcone@math.ucla.edu)
--
I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive.
I am not young, and I love life.  But I should scorn to shiver with terror
at the thought of annihilation.  Happiness is none the less true happiness
because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:47:15 -0500
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <BuCF9L.HtH@rice.edu> kossack@qvi.com writes:
>	However, I have to agree (with Alexandria) that I had 
>   a hard time believing that _Chris_ was going to fling the 
>   cow, since he seems to be the most PC fellow in town. 

Oh, Chris is not always PC.  E.g., he seems to be an avid hunter, and
recall the pheremone episode where he took for granted that women
would inevitably swoon at his feet.  I think he's said various unPC
knocks about love and marriage over the years too.

Note I'm not saying he's a bad guy.  In fact I quite like him, despite
the occasional things he does that I don't like.

As to the cow fling in particular, I thought it VERY Chrislike.  He's
a bizarre guy when it comes to arty stuff.

R
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: tom@uts.cc.wayne.edu (Thomas Richard Stevenson)
Subject: Re: "Cicely" and the Future
Organization: Wayne State Univ.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:26:37 GMT

walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) writes:

>I'm sure no one has missed this, but don't you get the strong feeling after
>the last few well-done minutes of "Cicely", that Joel may not be so longing
>to leave the town anymore?  

I said the very same thing about a week ago.

>    At the end, when Joel is sitting in the Brick hearing the sounds of 
>that far away year, his last thought is what Ned said, something like
>"One person can make a difference, but two people..., well two people can
>change the world".  

I think it went "One person can make a difference in another. Two people
can make a miracle". In any case, IMHO, the "One person" was Ned, and the
"another" was Joel. After hearing Ned tell his story, Joel saw everything
in a new light. Ned changed Joel forever. Who are the "two people"? I think
it will be Joel and Magie, but that's just a guess.

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: dmccoy@brahms.udel.edu (Don McCoy)
Subject: Re: Best Episode
Keywords: life, flinging, cow, piano 
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:31:06 GMT

Hey All,
	My hands-down favorite is the one in which Chris, in a fit
of existential weirdness familiar to us all (!?), flung a piano with
a homemade catapult.  Originally he'd planned to fling a cow (poor
cow), but was disheartened when he found out that Monty Python did
it first (thank-you Ed :) ).  Two things about this episode stick
in my mind:

   * The moment when Chris found the piano in Maggie's house and
     KNEW it was *exactly* what he needed to fling.  Have you ever
     felt something was so right without giving it so much as a 
     second thought?  If you do, go with it--you can't be wrong.

   * The fact that only one person (Maurice) asked him *why* he
     wanted to fling the thing, but even he, along with everyone
     else, accepted Chris' need to do it.  Maurice actually helped
     Chris resolve his feelings about being upstaged by Monty Python,
     even though he didn't understand exactly what Chris was going
     through.

	The important message here is that _everyone_ has a need to
express themselves in some way.  NX dared to show a scenario where
someone was supported in there effort, rather than being derided for
wanting to do something totally weird.  Cool.  Too bad it's TV and
not real life.

	One more thing (all philosophy aside):  I *loved* watching
that piano fly!  How often do you see something like that, even on
cable?


____________                             "I have this .sig (*ahem!*). And
    Don McCoy				  it's MY .sig (*ahem!*).  And it
      dmccoy@brahms.udel.edu              goes like this: (*ahem!*)"  
      don@chester.cms.udel.edu                   ________________________
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: cbacco@ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Re: Fandom
Date: 8 Sep 92 08:41:55 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

Make that 2 votes for Adam.  I enjoy all of the regular characters and
wouldn't want to see any of them go, but the episodes when Adam shows up
are some of my favorites.  Although I wouldn't want him to be a regular;
something about not knowing when he'll show up adds to his character.

			Ciao,
			     Corby


Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: kaveh@ms.uky.edu (Kaveh Baharestan)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
    <nancyo.715896134@sfu.ca> <m-rn!5j.clark@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:08:39 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

clark@netcom.com (Sue Clark) writes:

>I found this a bit irresponsible on the part of the writers.  Date rape
>is something that's serious and I don't think it should be played for
>laughs.

Not irresponsible.  The show does a lot of taboo things.  Shely and
Maurice and Holling.  Shelys Mother and the young GI.  The Founding
Members being Lesbians (rare as hell on TV (note that L.A. Law dropped
this aspect from their shows)) etc...

1. This show is perverse (not to be confused with "perverted") and
it is within its character to have Maggie say what she said.  When
people are mad and embarased they tend not to think logically.
2. Maggie had already consented to having sex with Joel at that moment
in that hotel room on that night.  If Joel had gone ahead it would
have been Necrophilia not date rape.
3. I have more problems with shows that are about women being raped and
their battle to prosecute the bastard. Are these shows intended to provoke
women to file charges when they are raped, to teach men that rape is bad or
what rape is, and what it does? No, their primary perpose is to draw the
viewers eye to the commercials.  They are profitting from rape.
4. Anyone who seeks to define and change their morality and behavior through
TV or movies, or thinks that movies and shows effect behavior and morality
is deluded.  The views perception determines the effect of evironmental
stimuli, not the reverse.

>Yes, it's just a tv show.  I love the fact that it's quirky.  Still, I
>think a little responsibility in some areas is a good thing.

Responsible to who's value system?  I'm sure their are a lot of
homophobes who hate this show.  My sister, a feminist, dislikes the 
relationship between Shely and Holling.  You disliked this scene.
Frankly i was a bit shoked.

>Sue :)

>-- 
>-----------------
>Sue Clark
>clark@netcom.com
-- 
/-  Kaveh Baharestan                               -==================|>=====o\
|"Though your lips are tempting, They're the wrong lips, They're not her lips |
| but they're such tempting lips That if some night you're free, Dear...      |
\______________________________________ -Cole Porter__________________________/
From: carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Carter Bennett)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Help me catch up, folks!
Summary: I just started watching - don't mind spoilers.
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:10:07 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

Ahoy!

I just started watching Northern Exposure at the recommendation of a couple
of colleagues.  First time I tried to watch, it was pre-empted by the 
Republican convention.  Second time was the doctor's airplane trip to
the city.  So I didn't get much chance to see the folks of Sicily.  Finally,
I caught Monday's repeat (Vladimir comes to town early/Nightmares on Elm
Street).  Wonderful show.  I'm hooked.

I'm hoping that some of you who have been watching the show regularly can
mail or post some things that I should know as a new watcher.  I have
learned a bit from the folks at work, but want some more details.

Anyone have a favorite character?  Any character development I need to
be aware of?  Anybody care to summarize their favorite episode?

Posts are fine - email, too.  I'll summarize good stuff, time permitting.

Cheerio!

Carter R. Bennett, Jr. - Scientist      No matter where you go...
carter@scilab.lonestar.org - home                 .../dev/tty!
carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org - work
KI5SR
From: bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Reasons for fandom
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:35:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HHMI/Human Genetics, Univ of Pa.

In article <1992Sep08.062058.24968@ssc.wa.com>, tad@ssc.wa.com (Tad Cook):

> The writing is great, with a lot of zany twists that operate on
> several levels.  They are always coming up with something completely
> unexpected, like the story about Jean Paul Sarte having supposedly
> lived in Cicely...

Do you mean "Joel" as Fraz Kafka?  Or am I missing something?

Greg Bole                                    "The ants in the grass, they
bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu                  were just doing their thing."
                                            Matt Dillon in _Drugstore Cowboy_
From: gemerson@cherry.ucs.indiana.edu (gennis emerson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Toy Cows in Africa
Summary: availability of music credits
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:07:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington


Someone asked TV Guide about the music information for NE. TV Guide,
the helpful folk they are, asked the people in charge of the show, who
said it wasn't possible to include all the music in the credits
because of time constraints, but that anyone wanting a music list for
an episode could write to the office. This was a while back. I'm
afraid I don't have the address of said office, but someone must know.
Hope this helps.


-- 
Gennis Emerson                                gemerson@cs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp