HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Geography (was Capitalization, still dubious MOTSS content)
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:53:20 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

>Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu> writes:
> >New York State is divided into three
> >sections: "The City", "Lon Gisland" and "Upstate".

>I think that's spelled "Lon Guyland," by the way.  But that doesn't
>capture the essence of the local vowels.  Maybe "Lawn Gawyland"
>would be better?

Not for midwesterners who pronounce "lawn" and "lon" identically. And it all
goes horribly confusing if you take it from my perspective, where the best
approximation in Australia of a NY-er's "lawn" would be "lorn". But then
again, here the words "awesome" and "foursome" rhyme exactly. 

Anyhow... get an Aussie to read "Lorn Goyland" and you'll get a fair 
approximation of a local NYC accent.

(Tee hee--"Goyland"--I've just made meself crack up!) 

--Brent
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:49:09 GMT

In article <72898@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> I don't know, but at least tattoos and piercings:
>     c) are paid for once -- not a constant financial drain

  Not if FWA is to be believed. 		
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction (actually Delany)
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:21:21 GMT
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu

Ron Buckmire:
> Oh, I forgot to say that Delany's autobiogrpahy is *REALLY* good; better
> than anything else he has written. I have heard that thee is a sequel 
> of sorts but that is out of print.

I'm fairly sure the sequel isn't out yet (but there's a short piece
from a work called something like Cities and Trains in a recent
fiction anthology).

What you're thinking of might be Heavenly Breakfast, which is a 
fictionalized account of Delany's experiences in the '60s. I really
enjoyed it; it covers a period right after Motion of Light in Water
ends, I think. There are other autobiographical pieces on later
periods in his essay collections.

(I'm not sure Heavenly Breakfast is out-of-print, but I do own a 
copy. But then it's something people expect me to own a copy of. :-))

Bill
From: bigstar@stein.u.washington.edu (J. Paschel)
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: Help needed on lotteries
Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:00:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu


I am currently working on research toward a better predictive theory of
lottery participation.  Surprisingly little has been written on this
subject and what little work I was able to uncover is generally
characterized by weak methodology or an absence of empirical support.  I
started with extensive survey data and found that background (or
demographic) factors explain very little in terms of a given individuals
involvement in state run lotteries. (i.e. it just isnt the case that poor
people buy more lottery tickets) Now, I am turning to more qualitative
based interviews in attempt to construct useful categories and for further
data collection efforts. 

In addition to my collection of personal interviews I would like to add to
my body of knowledge by soliciting responses to the following
questionnaire. I would appreciate any responses in whatever detail you
have time for.  The questions are not specifically personal in nature,
however feel free to ignore any questions you feel invasive. Also, it goes
without saying that I plan to strip the headers of all replies so as to
ensure anonymity. 

If interest warrants, I will certainly post a summary collection of
results.  Lastly, any participation will be rewarded by many thanks from a
curious researcher ;'>

Direct all replies to  bigstar@stein.u.washington.edu 

1) Thinking back to the first time you played a state lottery, how or why 
did you *first* decide to participate ?

	a - Did anyone else in your life play at that time ?

2) How do you *currently* play the lottery ?

	a - How do you decide when to play ?
	
	b - How many tickets do you buy ?
	
	c -If you have ever won anything, what did you do with the money ?

3) When playing, do you discuss your decision to play with anybody ?

	a - Do family members, friends, or work associates play ?

4) Some people think of playing the lottery as risky behavior..others do 
not.  Do you think playing the lottery is risky behavior ?  Why ?

5) What would your response be to people who question the merit of 
participating in state run lotteries ?

6) Why do you play the lottery ?

Thanks very much for your time.

	<<<bigstar@stein.u.washington.edu>>>
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Monday, 4 Jan 1993 19:00:16 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: who's gonna....

who's so bored that's gonna write something in this newsgroup during the
holidays?...me.

Have a nice day
From: chris@psych.toronto.edu (Chris Hitchcock)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Pornography and values
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:22:37 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, University of Toronto
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1ictk0INN96s@agate.berkeley.edu> jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews) writes:
>
>     The Harlequins I've read (Mills & Boon books, for you
>Brits) are all about an emotion-free, strong man, powerful in
>some way, who is so attracted to the woman that by the end of
>the book he has asked her to marry him (or some such thing).
>This is just the flip side of the stereotyped male fantasy of
>the beautiful, sexy woman who is so attracted to the man that
>she wants to have uncommitted sex with him.
>
>     The fantasies are different, but complementary.  They both
>are based on the exchange of protection (or "commitment") for
>sex, which is the basis of traditional relationships.  They both
>represent the best thing that each sex can dream of getting out
>of such a relationship.

Well, there *are* romance novels with strong heroines; the last one
I read (lent to me by a male friend who seeks such things out) was
about a female university professor and her attraction to and 
eventual union with the bartender at the college bar. The thing that
drives me kind of crazy about these books is that they are so often
based on misunderstanding. But I suppose it's hard to fill a novel
with all those sparkling moments of romance amidst normal life which
most of us accumulate as relationships start.

Besides, I'd argue strongly against the suggestion that protection for
sex is the best thing women can get out of a relationship. For me, 
anyway, sex is part, companionship another, respect, constancy, shared
humour (a big one), affection, regular touching, intellectual challenge,
someone to chatter to, shared problem solving. Then again, I've mostly
dated men who earned as much or less than I do, and I've never questioned
having a career for myself. 

Chris. 
-- 
Chris Hitchcock, Dept. of Psychology     chris@psych.toronto.edu
University of Toronto      in my new life: clh@vax.ox.ac.uk                 
Toronto, Ontario          UseNet:  I only read it for the  
CANADA  M5S 1A1                         .signatures                         


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From: BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.MIL (Jim Baranski)
Subject: Re: Women and Men's Safety
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Lanman Hill, Norwich CT
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:03:21 GMT

In <1iib3aINN9k3@agate.berkeley.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu writes:

> Fine.  But, does that mean that you don't want to be bothered lifting a
> finger to help her?

No, not at all...  I'm more then willing to help.  However, I refuse
to accept responsibility for anyone's fear because I walked past them
on the street.

I occasionally walk though areas which are 'unsafe' (although nothing
has ever happened to me).  But I don't blame the people who walk by
me, if I'm uneasy, and I feel that it's silly to expect them to go out
of their way or walk across the street to allay my fears.  The problem
is not them, but rather 'the situation', and my reaction to it.  As
such, to truely deal with the problem effectively, I need to work on
how I react to that situation.  Or choose to avoid situations that I
decide that I can't handle.

> World War II was not felt by you; is that then not real?

Of course World War II was real, just as a rape victim's feelings and
their causes are, even though I have not experienced either of them
directly.  I believe that I made that point perfectly clear.  If you
want to persue this, please read my *entire* post, and respond quoting
the whole context.

Jim.

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From: chris@psych.toronto.EDU (Chris Hitchcock)
Subject: Re: slamming Women's Bookstores
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:49:13 GMT

In article <1i7mdgINN3h9@agate.berkeley.edu> pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Ms D Alexander) writes:
[about reactions to "women only" bookstores:]

>Indeed!  Have you also noted the number of vigorous reactions to
>"discrimination"against men - affirmative action programs, for
>example.  The incidences of male discrimination seem trivial in
>comparison to the long-term and systematic discrimination and
>marginalisation of women, yet the cries of anguish can be heard all
>over.
>
>Dey

Well, if you hadn't noticed them yet, I'm sure you'll hear a few now ;-).

One thing about which I'm curious is whether affirmative action *has*
in fact resulted in hiring discrimination against men, that is,
whether in fact women (and minorities) are now being hired out of
proportion in (i) the set of people applying for jobs and (ii) their
proportion in the general population. The cynic in me wouldn't be
surprised to discover that even with all of this "positive
discrimination" the actual statistics remain skewed in favour of white
males. And the other part of me would like to know how concerned I
really ought to be about the impact of this practice.

Anyone have any recent statistics (eg, number of male and female
applicants and number of males and femalse hired in universities with
and without AA programs in the past 5 years?)?

Hoping this encourages some substance in the ensuing flames,

Chris Hitchcock. (chris@psych.toronto.edu, also clh@vax.ox.ac.uk)




--
Chris Hitchcock, Dept. of Psychology     chris@psych.toronto.edu
University of Toronto      in my new life: clh@vax.ox.ac.uk
Toronto, Ontario          UseNet:  I only read it for the
CANADA  M5S 1A1                         .signatures

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From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avo
Date: 5 Jan 1993 23:06:19 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article 1i5etpINNgmd@agate.berkeley.edu, gds@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.220108.22376@informix.com> Robert Hartman writes:
>>Well, insofar as it is customary for men to avoid frightening each
>>other when out and about at night--unless they're looking for
>>trouble--this helps other men spot the loonies and take evasive or
>>defensive action in plenty of time.  So while it doesn't completely
>>eliminate the risk, I think it helps.
>
>It has never been my experience that men cross the street, or for that
>matter, move away, when they are approaching each other late at night.
>In situations where I felt threatened, I moved away or crossed the
>street.

I'd have to agree with Greg here... I've never heard of someone crossing
the street so as not to intimidate someone else... I have only heard of it
in response to being intimidated.

Seems kind of silly to me... if I were a woman and a man crossed the street 
to obviously avoid me, I'd probably either confused or insulted.  And if I
were a black woman, I'd probably assume that it was someone who was 
stereotypically afraid of a black face.

It is an interesting subject, what do most women feel is appropriate 
behavior... turning your head and ignoring a person is pretty cold and
rude, crossing the street seems insulting, and obviously, saying "yo mamma, 
lookin fine tonight" is not appropriate either.  

I typically either nod my head in greeting, or say "good evening" or
something like that.  

---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw



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From: heidi@casey.net.COM (Heidi Wolf)
Subject: Re: Boys Will Be Boys
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:48:30 GMT

For a scholarly treatment of this subject (how does our societal norm
of predominantly-female caregivers affect the psychological development of
children?), take a look at Dinnerstein's THE MERMAID AND THE MINOTAUR.
It was published around 10 years ago but is still relevant.


Heidi Wolf


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From: muffy@mica.berkeley.EDU (Muffy Barkocy)
Subject: role-reversals (was Re: Women and Men's Safety)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:27:28 GMT
	<1iijt4INNf1j@agate.berkeley.edu>

In article <1iijt4INNf1j@agate.berkeley.edu> gds@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:
>In article <1iib3aINN9k3@agate.berkeley.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu writes:
>>All that she's been through, all that she fears, and you address it by
>>saying, "Not MY problem."  It is ALL of our problem!

>By your own words then, you must (if you do not already)

>* keep a respectable distance (e.g. across the street) from men who
>  are approaching you late at night
>* exhort all women to do likewise

>for the sake of the many men who have been sexually abused, mugged,
>etc. by women.

How does that follow?  I have never heard of a man desiring this from
women; have you?  We have heard from several women here that they find
this a reassuring thing, which is why it might make sense for men to do
it.  If it is not desired by or reassuring to men, then it would be
pointless to do it.  (Of course, if it is actually the case that women
crossing the street to avoid them would make men feel better, please do
let me know.)

This is why these role-reversals often do not work - since men and women
are treated differently in/by our society, what is desirable to one may
well be irrelevant or undesirable to the other.  While I think that it
is generally desirable to make everyone feel safer, I think this
discussion has made it clear that men's and women's fears *are*
different, and therefore the ways of making them feel more comfortable
may also be different.

Please note that by this, I am *not* advocating treating men and women
*as different*.  It just depends on the level you are looking at.  If my
SO likes chocolate and I do not, then buying him a box of chocolates is
a nice thing to do, while buying me one is pretty useless.  Therefore,
while you could argue that you're treating us "the same" if you buy us
each chocolates, you're actually treating him better, because you're
"getting him something he wants," while you're "getting me something I
don't want."  So, the equality of treatment as I see it should be
"increasing other people's comfort" not "crossing the street to avoid
everyone, regardless of whether or not that will make them more or less
comfortable."

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn




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From: turpin@cs.utexas.EDU (Russell Turpin)
Subject: Re: Women's and men's safety
Summary: I think *these* feelings are an indicator.
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:43:28 GMT

-*----
In article <1hsskrINN1pt@meaddata.meaddata.com> andyw@meaddata.COM writes:
> I think part of the difference in fear about violence between men and
> women is just a difference in attitude about getting hurt.  ...
>
> I think the issue that needs to be addressed is actual measurable
> differences in safety, not what peoples FEELINGs are.

At times when I was young, there were venues where a boy's
presence and behavior came under the influence of intimidating
rituals.  In essence, the rule was: don't come here or go there
if you are afraid of being hurt by those who are larger,
stronger, or meaner.  So some of us became strong and mean, and
some of us learned other ways of coping with such threats, and
some of us did not come here or go there.  But we all had to
accomodate to this one way or another.

Perhaps the division depended on how much each boy feared
violence and getting hurt.  And perhaps women and men are still
socialized differently in this regard.  And perhaps there are
even biological differences.

Regardless of how one distributes the causes, I oppose this
situation as a model of how larger society should work.  If a
large portion of the population feels significantly restricted in
their movements because of the danger from criminals they *feel*
in going out, that reflects a failure on our part to create a
reasonably safe society.  In my view, it calls for political
change.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of citizens hold
fantasy notions about the cause of violence in our society and
its possible cures [see subsequent article], so any solution
is quite distant.

Russell

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From: gds@ficus.cs.ucla.EDU (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avo
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: in your face!
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:11:00 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu writes:
>I'm not interested on metting friends for life when I'm walking to a
>bus stop; I am just going goggle-eyed trying to keep tabs on people to
>make sure that they won't sneak up on me and try to assault me.  I can
>handle the (nonexistent) social rejection implied, and frankly
>wouldn't give a damn.

Are you sure the social rejection is nonexistent?  As a black man, I
have experienced many times men, women, and children avoiding me after
dark.  They don't avoid white men, women, and children in the same
way.

Anyway, that's not really the point.  They can avoid me if they want,
and I can avoid them if I want.  But I'm not going to avoid them if I
don't want to because as a law abiding citizen I have as much right to
use the sidewalk as they do.

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From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.EDU (Steve Pope)
Subject: Re: Pornography a *male* interest
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:48:15 GMT

lisad@zoo.toronto.edu writes:

> Russel Turpin (turpin@cs.utexas.EDU) writes:

>> That depends on how one draws the categories. Should one count
>> Harlequin romances as pornographic? I think so.
>
>I would have to disagree...

If not Harlequin Romances, then how about Cosmopolitan --
does it count as pornography?

I don't read Cosmo routinely, but a couple months ago
I took a look at an issue left behind by a teenaged passenger
on a train.

There was an article on sadomasochism that seemed
mostly aimed at prurient interest (and the "serious" parts of the
article seemed fairly weakly researched...), plus pictorials with
such enlightened titles as "She Loves Lingerie" and "Cocktail
Waitress Makeover".

About the only thing missing was the full nudity...

Steve

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