From: maufd@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J S Graley)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Dear Starbuck
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:03:26 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: oregano.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Summary: moderate feminists?

Hmmm...

In my experience, the underlying instinctive response to any given statement
is to believe it, without the need for justification. In our sophisticated 
human society, we know to consiously supress this, but it still has an effect, 
especially with extreme viewpoints on subjective matters.

One group of people who do this quite a lot are the 'extreme feminists', ie 
those people, usually women, who vigourously make absurd (to the majority)
claims about the things men do to women including:
(1) Telling men things about their own habits and claiming they don't know
    what they are doing.
(2) Taking evils (eg rape) that the vast majority will never commit, and 
    reflecting them upon the 'average' man.
(3) Claiming modern man is responsible for events in distant history (you can
    find anything in a history book)
(4) Defining any man who argues with them as a sexist. 

I trust (hope) nobody will disagree that these are unacceptable in terms of
making a rational argument that stands on its on validity. However, as I said
above, they _still_ filter through into our minds. When we (male and female)
are exposed to enough of it, we begin to believe that man is the cruel 
oppressor and user of women. 

So the extreme feminist rhetoric serves as a weapon. It makes men feel bad 
when they read it, and the more ridiculous it is, the better it works. 

Could this, perhaps, be the reason for 'moderate feminism'? Could it be that 
by being a moderate feminist and a female, you:
(1) Aid the extremist so that...
(2) the extremist can write her nonsense and...
(3) you can reap the unjust reward?
And as a male, you simply shield yourself from it by being able to say
'that doesnt apply to me, Im a feminist'?

Who can gain from this war of words?

Men, after all, are also victims of sexism - although I accept by less - and 
being blindly condemed either directly (by extremists) or indirectly (by the 
moderates, via the extremists) isn't exactly going to stop them being sexist
against women. Unfair, perhaps, but true.

IMHO, A little consideration shown on the part of feminists would be far
more effective in causing men to realise their own wrongdoings. You don't have
to give in to be honest, you simply lay your cards on the table. Your 
'opponent' is then compelled to do so himself. Not being a woman, I can only
guess at some issuess that should, perhaps, be raised eg:
(1) A lot of men get discriminated against by female schooltechers in pri. and
    sec. education. I would guess 50% of males are serious victims.
(2) The divorce laws in most countries. Need I say more?
(3) Female's treatment of males in 'social' circumstances. This is the exact
    equivilent of male's treatment of females in 'the workplace'.

When I realised the prevailance of these and similar, I immediately noticed
my own sexist prejudices (and put them to sleep). But feminism still annoys
me because it encourages these above things in a tit-for-tat way, and so
makes matters worse.

And, hey, does it _really_ have to be called 'femin'ism?

Comments?

--Morley
Newsgroups: alt.feminism