HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:27:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory) writes:

>rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>No, they had others.  Skin color isn't the only possible disadvantage,
>>nor the greatest one.

>Given the history of Mankind, you will have a hard, HARD time
>proving this one. Oh, to be able to put you in a black skin
>and send you through the city.

Physical disability, for one, can be a much greater disadvantage.


>>Certainly not crack, probably not guns, definitely booze.  But I'd
>>feel as little sympathy for any of them who used drugs and didn't
>>succeed as I do for those who use drugs today and don't succeed.

>What if the drug abuser is 14 years old? 12? 10? 8? 6? You're
>a hard man, Ron.

If they grow up and continue to abuse, no sympathy.


>>>Asians have been exploited here but they were never enslaved and they always
>>>managed to preserve their culture.

>>Never enslaved?  Let's talk American West.

>Hate to disillusion you, Ron, but chinese railroad workers were PAID
>employees. There is no reasonable way you can compare thier
>experience to slavery. Discrimination? Yes! Horrible working
>conditions? YES! Paycheck? Yep. Freedom to leave? Yep.

Yes, yes, maybe, often not.  The government was often in collusion
with crooked employers.


>>>You don't get it, do you? 

>>One of my greatest ambitions is to never "get it" in the PC sense.

>One of my greatest joys is racists explaining that they are
>not racists, but "anti-pc".

I can't imagine you being joyous about anything.   But lemme know when
you find some.

-- 
Time flies when you don't know what you are doing.
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1605 alt.news-media:238 soc.culture.iranian:3441 soc.rights.human:1439 talk.politics.mideast:10824 talk.religion.misc:7107
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:50:32 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics

In article <1992Apr14.182229.20585@cco.caltech.edu>, bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.020400.11492@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:

>>Please tell me you're not serious before the discussion 
>>of Jews in Iran becomes the topic here in t.p.m.
>
>Why not?  This subject was already a topic in t.p.m, soc.culture.
>jewish, etc. a few years ago.  Perhaps some of us need to refresh our
>memories.

I missed it, and would appreciate a summary.

>>But please tell me what I can and can't say without being sentenced to
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>death.  
> ^^^^^
>Say what your heart pleases.  We have had arguments before and I haven't
>sentenced you to death :-) .   Now, if _you_ don't sentence me to death,
>then hopefully we can both survive this discussion... :-)

Yes, but I have not criticized Iran and/or its leaders before.  I don't have
the power to sentence people to death, nor have I ever done it.  That is
not true about Iran and its leaders.   

I'm not afraid of YOU sentencing me to death, (although it does disturb me 
that if I happened to be at an event in the Israeli consulate in this city
and I was killed by a bomb, some people would be happy to hear about
such an incident). 

>Behnam Sadeghi,
>Muslim from Iran

Leon Gross
Bluesman from Chicago
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: st902523@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (David Miller)
Subject: The AfAm xperiance
Reply-To: st902523@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:37:53 GMT

As you can see from my header I'm here at a Jewish school.  If I had $1 for 
every hour of discussion I've had about :the comparisonn of the Black exper-
ience to the Jewish one, Black issues, White issues, and Black/White issuse,
all my bills would be paid (my personal ones at least; this is one expensive 
ass school), adn I would be livin' kinda large.

I still hold my beleif that the AfAm experience, from past to present, is
still the worst of ANY culture and no other can compare.

Peace
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu (Robert T. Huffman)
Subject: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:33:12 GMT

In article <viking.703149779@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>
>Dowdy may enjoy the feeling he gets when he thinks of African slavery as
>being caused by the white man, but history shows that to be wrong.
>
I'm not really sure how any rational human being can believe this.  Sure,
some opportunistic black Africans benefitted from selling slaves to Arabs
and Europeans and Americans.  And perhaps some sub-Saharan African cultures
enslaved other peoples from the continent for their own use.  But face up
to the facts--it was demand in other parts of the world that caused the
larger part of the desturction of Africa's population.  I certainly don't
have any stats, but I suspect my country (US) had more slaves than just about
any other "civilization" you can name.

I also want to throw in my two cents' worth on who is to blame today.  I
suppose it is correct for white people today to say "I'm not responsible
for what my ancestors did."  But can Americans and Europeans (and, for that
matter, Japanese) say "I'm not responsible for the current state of the
world?"  I don't think so.  No, we are not responsible for the actions of
our ancestors, but we have inherited a world from those ancestors in which
tremendous inequities and injustices exist, and we most definitely do have
a responsibility to try and correct them.

Robert Huffman
rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 08:32:46 GMT

In <1992Apr15.203120.15898@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu
 (itiakorit j osele) writes:

>In article <viking.703318611@aviator.cc.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

>Killing and looting is human progress ! May be our value systems are
>diametrically opposite.

	Maybe I was being slightly sarcastic.

>Certainly, when say, a body of knowledge [ e.g scientific ]
>is ascribed to some races and not the others, this is implicit racism.
>It does not have to be blatant DISDAIN FOR OTHERS. There are many ways
>racism can manifest itself.

	Perhaps it could also do with one region/race coming up with
an idea earlier than others?  The Greeks knew a lot more about treating
puncture wounds than even our doctors in the Civil War (USA), yet this
is not seen as a racist statement.  Does the fact that Egypt rarely used
armor while the Greeks wore lots of it denote racism or perhaps just
different needs and/or different solutions?  I like Uhlmann's Razor:
When stupidity is sufficient explanation, there is no need to have
recourse to any other.

<Daniel R. Sorenson   Dod #1066  |If Iowa State University agreed with me >
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu <- work |I'd make $90K/yr.  They don't, I don't. >
<viking@iastate.edu      <- play |"I am *not* goofing off.  I am driving  >
< myself mercilessly in the pursuit of relaxation." -- T. Weeds           >

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:46:04 GMT

In article <rdippold.702586140@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>>ceed. I would also remind you that if you that if Clarence Thomas were liberal,
>>there is no way he would have ever worked for Danforth, gotten a job in the 
>>Reagan administration, and gone on to become a Supreme Court Justice. This man
>>derides AA yet himself was a beneficiary of it (that's how he got into law
>>school). Can you say 'hypocrisy'?
>
>
>Can you say "This is what AA is so great for?"  If any black gets
>uppity, you cut him off at the knees as just another AA beneficiary,
>not worthy in his/her own right.
>
>With any luck for the white supremacists, AA will continue,
>reinforcing the credo of black inferiority.
>
>-- 
>There are eight million stories in the naked city - this is not one of them.


AA isn't what causes blacks to be looked at as inferior to whites, its the
attitude of whites which causes this. Long before there was AA the attitude  
that blacks are inferior to whites existed. Whites just can't face up to the
reality that they aren't as intellegent as they think they are.

Dowdy Jackson
Northwestern University
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1625 alt.politics.correct:3705 soc.culture.african:1877
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: By the Time I get to Arizona...
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:26:48 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:

>In article <1992Mar31.220148.21414@anasaz> briand@anasaz (Brian Douglass) writes:
>>And in the mean-time Asians communities keep their yaps shut about their
>>problems, pool their money, and change their lives for the better, both now
>>and for their children.  Moral, quit the belly-aching ("Woe is me!") and
>>take care of your own problems yourself.  That applies to oneself, family,
>>community or country.

>Look at the price that they are willing to pay in order to get that American 
>dream. Many Asian children don't care about their culture and heritage.

Being successful requires giving up your heritage?  I don't think so.
I know several vietnamese families who came over in the 60's/70's who
still stay strong with the Vietnamese culture.  Traditions, cooking,
the whole bit.  But the children just really don't care.  Ditto for
other countries, it always seems to work this way

	1st generation:  Tries hard to keep the culture
	2nd generation:  Doesn't care
	3rd generation:  "Nostalgia"

This interest in African culture is interesting because it's so
counter to the pattern.  And those involved may be a few hundred years
removed. 


But back to success.  Just what is is about the American Dream that is
so counter to African culture or that would require someone to give it
up?  Is African culture such a legacy of failure?
-- 
Diplomacy: The art of letting someone else have your way.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
From: pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Paul A Prior)
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: world,local
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:06:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.213537.12083@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>
>>This is propaganda, not a description of white American at all.
>>Your views of white American are extremely negative, and border on racism.
>>I suggest you pay less attention to Louis Farakkan.
>>
>I suggest you stop trying to base your opinions on the status of race 
>relations based solely on what you THINK the situation is. Why don't
>you listen to what someone who is going through the problem has to
>say. No one would ever say that what a woman who has been raped says
>she went through is not true but when it comes to race and what
>blacks have to say .....Seems like alot of white people don't 
>want to beleive what they have to say. WHY ??? Maybe you should pay
>more attention to Farakkan.



-- 
--------pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu----(614) 297-8474----------------
Paul A. Prior    Ban anchors, not reef tanks   "With friends like this,   
2nd year medical student		          who needs anemones?"
The Ohio State U. College of Medicine   Tobacco Kills- Please don't smoke!
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: By the Time I get to Arizona...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:17:51 GMT

In article <rdippold.702716797@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>>But back to success.  Just what is is about the American Dream that is
>>>so counter to African culture or that would require someone to give it
>>>up?  Is African culture such a legacy of failure?
>
>>     What do you mean by the question: Is African culture such a legacy of
>>failure ??
>
>I'm asking why you seem believe that preserving African culture and
>heritage and the American Dream are mutually exclusive.  Does African
>culture require failure as defined in today's society?  It's quite
>possible to succeed in America and retain your cultural identity, as
>the Italians and Jews have demonstrated, just to name a few.  So what
>is it about African culture that excludes it?
>
>
>-- 
>Your chance of forgetting something is directly proportional to...  uh...


Its not African culture but white folks trying to prevent us from having
an African identity. The Jews nor the Italians were beaten and killed for
trying to maintain their heritage but the Africans bought over here as slaves
were. This trend still exists today. If an AfAm has a strong sense of African
identity he/she is immediately called a radical, etc.. But when an Italian
shows this same pride no one feels threatened. This is because whites are
afraid when we show a strong pride in our identity. This stems from the
idea that black pride equals hating whites.

Dowdy Jackson
Northwestern University
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Minority Religions in Iran (was executed baha'i)
Summary: Some good, some bad.
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:47:24 GMT


Benham Sadeghi wrote that:
> I personally think that relatively speaking a Jew is more respected in 
> Iran than a Muslim is in the U.S.

and, to quote Mr Bierce, "there hath been brave disputation".

The Philadelphia Inquirer recently had an article on the Iranian elections,
and here are some of the details from it:

Religious minorities -- Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians and Baha'is (who make
up 1% of the population) -- are guaranteed five seats in the Majlis.  There
are 270 total seats in the Iranian parliament, so the influence of those five
is probably rather limited.

In the face of the apparent tokenism, one Jewish election worker said that
"Iran is the only country where the Jews have their own representative in
parliament.  Even in the United States, Jews aren't guaranteed a seat. [...]
They have recognised the Jewish minority's place with a seat."

A Zoroastrian took a more cynical view of things: "This election doesn't make
any difference.  It's only symbolic, so they can say we have freedom."  The
reporter notes that the Iranian government does not permit Zoroastrians to
publish their religious books, but says nothing about other religions.

And finally, the Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian houses of worship that the
reporter went to all included a portraits of Ayatollah Khomeini -- probably
not voluntarily.


How does this compare with Muslims in the US?  Well, everybody can publish
their books and I've never seen a portrait of a President on the wall of any
religious building.  Whether this is a good trade for a guaranteed seat in the
parliament you'll have to decide for yourself.


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: saied@odin.unomaha.edu (Saied*)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:17:40 GMT

sepehr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ramin S.) writes:

>I condemn those who are responsible for that to death , I also condemn
>a religion such as Islam in which there is no respect for other
>religions eventhough I was born in a muslim family . Not only they
>have no respect , but also they force others to accept their cr*p and 
>any objection will result death . 

Ramin

Please do not mix crimes committed or advocated by the
anti-human and anti-Islam Khomeini regime with Islam.

Islam respects other religions and in general other
ideaologies.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Discrimination against minorities in medical research
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:51:29 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

On the news yesterday, there was a report of a complaint by certain
minorities about research on Type II diabetes ignoring them.  They
did admit that there was such a program for the Pima Indians.

As a Type II diabetic myself, and up on what research is being done,
the amount of research on the roughly 10 million whites with the 
disease is zilch.  I know of none being done for my ethnic group.
The Pima Indians recently became susceptible to Type II diabetes,
about which very little is known, and are being studied becouse of
their very high rate.  There are essentially no other major studies
being done, because nobody knows how to study it.

Now complaints can be justified, but there should be some basis.  
Another example is the comparison between Sickle Cell Anemia and
Tay-Sachs.  Despite the complaints, there is far more study with the
hope of reasonable treatment being done on Sickle Cell, while Tay-
Sachs is almost given up as completely hopeless.  Everything available
for Tay-Sachs, namely, genetic counseling, amniocentesis, and abortion,
is available there also.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:16:51 GMT

In <1992Apr14.223436.12865@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu
 (itiakorit j osele) writes:

>Of coarse one doesn't take credit directly, but people do it indirectly
>by taking pride in what their ancestors did. This is one of the linchips
>of racism,  i.e human progress has been the effort of some races and not
>others.

	On the contrary, I am rather proud that my ancestors managed
to introduce extortion to the inhabitants of the British isles.  We
called it "Danegeld."  I am also quite proud that my ancestors were
remarkably adept at killing others and finding new places to loot.  These
views hardly make me a racist; pride in my ancestors does not equate
to disdain of yours, no matter who yours may be or what they did.

>What I was wondering aloud in the net was, why not take pride in
>the good things AND responsibilty for the bad - it sure would make us
>better human beings ?

	And why should I take responsibility for either the good or the
bad?  I prefer to take a note of pride in both -- not everybody can
say their ancestors laid waste to the aisland of Wisby, you know.  I
can no more help or hinder the far past than I can predict the future,
and I refuse to take direct responsibility for either.  I do not take
credit for the battle plan that laid waste to Wisby, and I see no
reason I should take any blame for such, either.  I am an individual,
and I will judge and be judged on my own merits.  This ideal will,
I believe, make us better human beings.  It is when we start making
artificial classifications on people that we become inhumane.

<Daniel R. Sorenson   Dod #1066  |If Iowa State University agreed with me >
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu <- work |I'd make $90K/yr.  They don't, I don't. >
<viking@iastate.edu      <- play |"I am *not* goofing off.  I am driving  >
< myself mercilessly in the pursuit of relaxation." -- T. Weeds           >
   
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African Americans
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:51:57 GMT

arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>***** Why are you bringing PC into this? Again you are wrong to compare dif-
>ferent groups. I notice that you failed to respond/comment on a good part of my
>last post. I take it, then, that you agree with me on those points?

Either I agreed with the middle ground we reached on a point, or I
thought we were just repeating ourselves and probably wouldn't reach a
consensus. 

>Boy, it must be nice to be an Anglo and be able to make judgements about
>minorities at will. >:-)

>Still you're point regarding Dowdy's remarks is valid. Racism is racism, no 
>matter the source. Bear in mind, though, that no matter how much you may detest
>Black racism, White racism is far more prevalent and must not be ignored or
>remain unaddressed, either. Agreed?

Agreed.  I just don't think reverse racism is the method.
-- 
Alex Haley was adopted
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1467 alt.politics.correct:3647 soc.culture.african:1774
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:00:25 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics

In article <204751@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, pmmst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.181844.21589@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>Well first of all europeans enslaved Africans and transported them to America,
>not Africans. Europeans seperated families, worked the slaves to death and
>killed them...not Africans. African slaves worked for this country for centuries
>>and made it what it is today via FREE labor due to the european slave traders
>and masters... NOT AFRICANS. There were jews involved in the capture and murder of other jews in the jewish holocaust but no one would dare imply that the
>jews were responsible or played a major partin the murder of their own people.
>This would only try to diminish the resposibility of the nazi's role. This is 
>true when whites try to say that Africans enslaved Africans for the slave trade.

Your comparison simply does not work.
The Jews in Europe were under Nazi occupation, which means that were already
sentenced to death.  They gained nothing personally by cooperating.  Those 
who cooperated were often deported and/or killed as well.

From what I understand, the Africans who participated in the slave
trade made money from the transactions, and were not themselves
subsequently sold as slaves.

So every Jew in Nazi occupied-Europe was a victim, whether they 'cooperated' 
or not.  But not every African in Africa was a victim of slavery, and some 
who were not victims benefited personally from it.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.


>Dowdy Jackson