HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kogan@sw.stratus.com (Doug Kogan)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Webbing Strength
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:43:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.5094
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.


Well it seems we've talked about 'biner & rope strength, so why not progress
to webbing.  I was at my local climbing supply store the other night and 
while looking at their webbing/sling strength chart I was amazed to find out
that flat webbing is stronger than tubular webbing of equal width.  Is this 
true?  If so does anybody know why?


-- 
kogan@lectroid.sw.stratus.com
Doug Kogan
Stratus Computer Inc.
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: gear question
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:31:15 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Jul30.013657.17480@colorado.edu> ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill) writes:

>does anyone have any info on the relative stresses that are placed
>on the carabiner used to clip pro and the carabiner used to clip the
>rope into (e.g. the two carabiners are on a quick draw)? i have been
>clipping pro with my older 'biners and using the newer ones for the
>rope on the assumption that the biner through which the rope runs takes
>a good deal more force than the one used to clip gear. thanks! greg

Unless the fabric of the quickdraw gets caught on something, the
force will be the same on each end of it.  (Well, maybe the pro end
has to hold the weight of the quick-draw, but that ain't much.)
Force will be essentially the same.  There will be more abrasion on
the rope end as the rope slides through that biner.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Climbs for short people
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 01:11:18 GMT

Ugh!
Face it, climbs with reaches (Kor moves) discriminate against us
in these days against direct aid.  Get to a summit in a thunderstorm
with a tall partner (I mean lightning rod).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: dean@vexcel.com (dean alaska)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:12:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.182231.25775@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

>I eventually found Roper:
>
>	 Small piles of stones - called ducks, carins, or stonemen -
>	have become an eyesore all over the high country.  One time I was
>	behind a pack of Boy Scouts who were ascending Gabbot Pass.
>	There were twenty of them, and as they drifted in separate packets
>	over high meadows and gentle talus fields they built such sturdy and
>	so abundant a supply of ducks that it took me an extra hour and an
>	extra mile to destroy them all.  I had better things to do, and
>	I would hate to be thought of as a duck pervert, but I genuinely
>	shutter each time I see those little piles which someone else has so	
>	kindly placed to help me one my way.  WHAT ARROGANCE the duck-builder
>	has!  Does he believe that he has found the only possible route?
>	Does he believe that he has checked out all the alternate routes?

I remember my first pack in to the Palisade Glacier in the Sierra.  No
matter which direction I looked, there was a duck, even on the "correct"
route!

>	Does he think we can't find our own way?
>	 It is not only the populated areas of the Sierra [note lack of 's'
>	;^)] and it is not only the Boy Scouts who build ducks.  In the
>	difficult-to-reach Gorge of Despair I found hundreds of ducks which
>	must have been built by rockclimbers since few others see the valley.
>	There were ducks on class 1 slabs, ducks which laboriously took me
>	to a class 2 ledge instead of a direct class 2-3 route, and ducks
>	which led through brushfields to a stream crossing.  Hervey Voge
>

I never found any when I went to the Gorge of Despair (must have been
the mid 80's).  Didn't find any other people, either.  Maybe Roper had 
just been there.  We found our way anyway.

>--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
>  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
>  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
>Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
>A Ref: Climbers Guides to the High Sierra by Steve Roper and earlier edition
>	by the late Hervey Voge


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:49:57 GMT
Followup-To: poster

In article <Jul28.192542.36863@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
> In article <1992Jul28.170517.22876@src.umd.edu> frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt) writes:
> >
> >If a route is sufficiently heavily travelled to sustain damage then it is 
> >obvious where the trail goes without the cairns, and yes I do find those 
> >"Short cutting causes erosion" signs about as offensive as the ones that 
> >say "Scenic Outlook" or "Private Land owned by XYZ developers" when they
> >occur in areas that have some claim to being wilderness.
> 
> My favorite signs are the "Adopt a Highway Litter Control" signs
> in Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and who knows where else?  The god-danged
> signs are more offensive then the litter ever was.  Why can't these
> do-gooders adopt their repective highways without putting up the
> offensive signs all over the place?
> 
> -- 
> 
> -Wayne Trzyna
>  trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU

My guess is that the people that adopt a highway are looking for
CHEAP advertising.  They get their name in the publics eye and
all they have to do is walk a few miles of road and pick up the
litter once a month or so. 

I feel much safer seeing the signs and no litter, then I do seeing
a Sherriff's Busload of in-mates along the side of the road picking
up trash.

The Adapt-a-Highway program is at least a cost effective means to
get litter picked up.  In the commercial cases, the alternative would
be for the companies to put up a BILLBOARD.

Marc
From: jcn@rice.edu (Jeff C. Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: best shoes/best price?
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:15:52 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas

This is probably asked time and time again, but I would like to 
hear from people about shoes.  I.e. what are some good shoes that 
I don't have to take a loan out to buy.

I have a rather large foot (size 13--size 10 if it weren't for that 
damn big toe) and I have only been climbing for a short time.  I 
am leaning towards some 5-10s from REI that I rented for a climb.
They fit well and are a pretty good price ($99).

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Please e-mail unless others 
are also interested.


--
*  Jeff Nichols                 |   I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay. * 
*  DoD#0402         AMA#568571  |   Ride:  GS500E    		   *
*  It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing milkbone    *
*  underwear--  Norm Peterson					   *
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:46:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Climbing around Urbana, Ill.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

/ hpfcso:rec.climbing / prsg9801@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Richard Shirkey) / 10:11 pm  Jul 20, 1992 /

>climbing spots a few hours drive from Urbana?  The reachable 
>weekend region would include all of Illinois, a large part 
>of Indiana, western Tenneese, Southern Minn., eastern Iowa, 
>and the St. Louis area.

Devil's Lake State Park, near Baraboo, Wisc. is a great place to climb.
It's probably more than a few hour's drive, but surely is closer than
Minnesota.  Might make a nice weekend trip.
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: black feet from Boreal Lasers
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:14:11 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Jul23.155013.11193@ccu.umanitoba.ca> ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau) writes:
>I have a pair of Boreal Lasers, You know the black and pink slippers.  I
>really like them, but I have this problem with them.  Every one else I
>know who uses them has the same problem.  After about 15 mins of hard
>climbing they turn your feet black.  After about 2 months of use they
>don't seem to be letting up.  Couldn't Boreal have a non-sweat soluble dye??
>It's also a bugger to get the dye off in the shower also. Any one of you
>net.climbers happen to have an idea to stop getting black foot from them??


Well, you could wear plastic (eg. sandwich bags) between them and
your feet.  :-)

Other than something like that I don't know how to keep it off.
However you might try waterless hand cleaner (available at auto
parts stores) to get it off.
From: anne@igor.tamri.com (Anne Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: short people
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:28:32 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA


   
As a 5'1" climber, I must take exception to the following remarks:

From ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)

> It occurred to me that perhaps this route we did might also
> be harder for taller people -- the first natural route I've done where
> being small is an advantage!  
 
From: kupstas@rainier.cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas)

> I am 5'6" (not _too_ short!) and my partner is 6'2". I often feel
> at a great disadvantage due to the height difference! 

> We shorter folk need all the comforts we can get!


I believe from both personal experience and observation of top climbers
that being short is not only not a handicap but is probably a tremendous
advantage, particularly on "real" rock.  The "comfort" we shorter
folk get is a really fun sport we can learn to do very well!  Consider
the following:

(1) The shorter you are, the better the strength to weight ratio
    you are likely to possess.  Ants climb better than elephants.

(2) Shorter people tend to have better agility -- consider the average
    height of gymnasts, both male and female.  

(3) Very few top climbers are exceptionally tall.  If height were truly
    an advantage, wouldn't we see 6'6' 5.14 climbers?  It's rare to see
    someone much above 6' climb at this grade.

(4) The only two women in the world (to my knowledge) who have on-sighted
    5.13 are 5'1.  (Lynn Hill and Robyn Erbesfield)


Again, from ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)

>Does anybody else have a route to recommend where being short is an
>advantage?

Yes, 90% of the routes I've done since starting to climb.

While I would love to cry "reach!" everytime a taller partner
has less trouble than me on a climb, usually it's simply a matter
of missing a possible alternative sequence.  

I find that while certainly routes exist which favor tall people,
these are in fact surprisingly rare.

-Anne

-- 
*******************************************************************************
		   |  				
	        / O|				
	        `-#'			Anne Smith
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 20:02:03 GMT
Subject: Spearhead Beta
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


(FYI: Spearhead is a 1000' wall of granite in Rocky Mountain National Park 
with a summit at 12,600'.)

After failing last year on Obviously Four Believers due to route-finding
problems, I managed to do Three Stoners on Saturday.  The description of
the two routes in Kimball's book (Estes Park Rock Climbs (The Lumpy Guide))
are very poor, and DuMais' is not any better.  Here's how The Monz and I 
would describe it:



About three pitches above Middle Earth is another long, spacious ledge with
a double-bolt rappel/belay anchor.  Both Three Stoners and Obviously Four
Believers use this ledge.  The description for Three Stoners in the book is
missing the pitch to this ledge!

Belay about 40' right of the bolts, anchored to a small, left facing  
dihederal.  For both climbs, angle further right off the ledge.  Going 
straight up from the bolts puts you on-course for the "Death Pitch", as Monz
now refers to it.

Three Stoners
-------------
Angle right towards a nice-looking 5.8 hand crack that drops down from the 
right edge of a long, orange roof seen about 150' above the ledge.  The 
first part of this will be run-out face climbing up to the crack.  Belay at 
the end of the crack at two bolts.

In the book, the next pitch is described as going over two roofs protected
by bolts.  In reality, the roofs are small overlaps, or downward pointing
flakes, with a 1/4" bolt below each one.  The overlaps are about three feet
apart.  After a desperate high step (.11), the pitch settles down to a 
terrifying 10- underclinging friction traverse to a good ledge. 8-O 

The last pitch (off the good ledge) is described fairly well in the book and 
ends on the summit shelf.  Not described is the fact that you can avoid the 
disgusting, loose 5.8 summit chimney  by a 3rd class traverse directly right.

Obviously Four Believers
------------------------
This starts off the ledge in the same place as Three Stoners, but stays right
of the handcrack.  This climb avoids the 5.11 with a pitch up a 5.9 crack
to the right, then a 5.10 traverse (bolt) back to the same ledge mentioned
above (after the scary traverse).



Now that you've got the Beta, go for it!

John  :-)
From: wuly@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: HELP! Need a place to climb in Austin, TX
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:36:15 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

HOwdy folks-
	I'm leaving for Austin, TX tomorrow (!) afternoon and need some help.
I've become addicted to bouldering here at the Lindseth Climbing Wall at
Cornell and was wondering where I could get my fix for the few weeks that I'll
be in Austin. Anyone know of a climbing wall in Austin? I don't have much 
equipment, so outdoor climbs are pretty much out. I just need something to roam
around on every few days. Any help or hints would be appreciated!!  Thanks!
zack falin

feel free to email, I'll check my account again before leaving...
From: clissman@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Some Gear Questions
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:31:21 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University College Dublin

I have a couple of questions regarding protection which I would appreciate
if someone could answer. Responses will be summarised and posted if anyone else
is interested in them. 
What are big bros ? What is the relationship between Friends, Camalots and
Quadcams in terms of function and price ? Some basic price indications would 
also be very welcome, as well as a recommended source in New York city.
Thanks in advance
Ciaran
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: andrzej.taramina@rose.com (andrzej taramina)
Subject: Nude climbing hazzard
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:27:09 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 07-31-92 00:19

TM>How about those annoying "scorps", chuckwallas, and the occasional
TM>rattlesnake.  Seems like those could be very detrimental on the
TM>"genetalia" when one is climbing in their "invisible lycra"

It gets worse....picture yourself floating up that 5.14f au
naturel, when a real rock-jock comes up behind ya with a #69
Friend and spies the most wonderful crack.......ouch!

Some placements are just better than others!

Catching the dangling bits in a rap-device on the way down
might make for an excessive level of noise pollution on the
crags!

<hee hee hee>

From the 'broidery 'droid........Andrzej
---
   DeLuxe  1.12 #168   I got a gun for my wife.........Good Trade!
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.  Was: Rock Climbing... bungee jumping???
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 00:20:39 GMT

>In article <1992Jul29.172314.116391@zeus.calpoly.edu>
jdalbey@zeus.calpoly.edu (John Dalbey) writes:
>> amusing stories of people's ignorance of 'outdoor activities'

In article <1992Jul29.203007.6201@csi.uottawa.ca>
pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey) writes:
>Last summer, when hiking up a mountain with my nephew from N.Y.C,
>the 6 year old asked me, "Who planted all of these trees?"

You can tell the story of Johnny Appleseed or Paul Bunyan (and his Blue Ox).
Better of course is to turn them onto botany, take pocket magnifier,
they grow up and become a famous botanist or geneticist.

Similar stories can be told about smog and the LA Mountains,
where water comes from (Twain: whiskey is for drinking, water is for
fightin'.), what those lights in the sky are all about,
or the mysteries of why you can tell direction using an analog wristwatch.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
Ref: Why Clocks Run Clockwise by David Feldman
From: u6409886@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Bungee jumping natives
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:40:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne



	Pentecost Island is the home of these intrepid types.



	Andrew Davies
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:2514 rec.backcountry:5409
From: unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Trip Report: Yosemite's Clark Range (800 words)
Date: 20 Jul 92 16:47:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: MITEM Corp

In article <1992Jul14.163618.21520@ecst.csuchico.edu> cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU writes:
>I would like to know why I can't even cross the trailhead parking lot without
>crossing *four* quadrangles?!  I think the USGS uses some arcane, n-dimensional
>topology that guarantees that no matter where I go in the backcountry it 
>*always* involves at least four quadrangle maps--the purpose being to sell more
>maps--(in fact, that's what I thought the "quad" in quadrangle meant: to wit, 
>takes four maps).     

USGS simply drew a grid across the US at regular intervals on latitude and
longitude (15 minutes originally, now 7.5 minutes).  If you seek to find
fault you should blame the people who put in trail that cross the 
map boundaries.  :-)

The 7.5 minute series is very small scale.  You get a lot of detail,
but have to carry more maps.  Custom maps are more often divided up
into useful areas of coverage, and have clearer markings for things
that hikers are interested in.  

I prefer the local custom maps (Green Trails) for trail hiking.  One
map often covers the whole area, major trails are well marked and
distances are included.  For climbing or off trail trips I prefer to
have a 7.5 minute map of the important areas.

As for accuracy - I've found errors in all maps.  Confirm important
things from two or more sources.  As you travel, be aware of the terrain
and whether it matches what is on the map.

Tom Unger
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Animal Friendly Climbing Boots
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:43:29 GMT

In article <25634@life.ai.mit.edu>, klaus@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu 
(Klaus B. Biggers) writes:
|>In article <VLADIMIR.92Jul18091827@ronnie.Eng.Sun.COM>
|>vladimir@Eng.Sun.COM (Vladimir Ivanovic) writes:
|>>Of course, everyone realizes that all synthetic boots are probably
|>mostly
|>>derived from petroleum products...  There is no free lunch.
|>
|>A valid point. However, both the leather and the petroleum products
|>used
|>for plastics are basically by-products from a larger industry...
|>gasoline
|>and beef to eat. So if you want to have any impact, cut back on your
|>consumption af beef and gasoline. The leather and plastics cutback
|>will
|>come about much more easily then.
|>

Perhaps, if after putting on your boots, you pick up a stick 
and beat yourself?  And, dare I say it?  Lycra must be a 
petroleum product?  I still can't shake this image from my
head of a 7-kid family in the suburbs, with a warm smile of
self-righteousness as they seperate the diet coke cans and
put them in the recycle box.
--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"You'd eat your young alive
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | for a Jaguar in the drive.
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | You lie too much, you lie too badly"
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / |          - Joni Mitchel


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: sole unstuck from bottom of climbing shoe
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:00:18 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <14720@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:
>Hypothetically--just hypothetically, mind you--IF you were silly
>enough to leave your climbing shoes in your trunk in the summer and
>the sole came undone from the bottom of the shoe, what are your
>options?  Is it glueable (if so, what glue)?  Should the shoe be able
>to take the abuse and should we go back to the place of sale and
>demand another pair (send it back to the manufacturer)?


Hypothetically, I might clean the sole with alcohol realy well.  Then
I might get some Barge Cement (tm) and spread a very thin layer on
both the soles and mid soles.  Then I might let both sides dry for oh
may be 30 minutes or so.  Then I guess I might stick both sides
together like they were originally were.  For really good results I
would put them back in my trunk so I could practice this technique a
couple of times.  Oh yea, make sure you inhale deeply while applying
the glue.  It will make the whole experience much more in sightful.

Then again I might just go out buy a new pair of shoes.

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Pucky lads, a wee bit over their heads"

	Doug Scott after encountering two climbers
	on Denali suffering from exposure.