HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfh@duke.cs.duke.edu (Fran Heidlage)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: A new belt question
Keywords: belts, floor
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:28:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.



	The other night I was talking with a martial arts colleague
	and an interesting question arose.  I was told, somwhere in
	the distant past, that your belt must never touch the floor
	unless you were wearing it (e.g. rolls, breakfalls, ground-
	work, etc.)  Has anyone else out there in rec.ma land heard
	of such a thing?  Do you have any ideas about the origin of
	this tradition?  Or did I make it up in my sleep one night?


	Fran Heidlage
	jfh@romeo.cs.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET (Kevin Cole; Washington DC)
Subject: Re: If these postings are a representative sample of the arts...
Organization: Gallaudet Research Institute
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:14:27 GMT


Some of you ask:  Why don't I just go out and get some real experience, instead 
of reading the newsgroup.  Well, having no desire to lose money and permanently 
injure myself by learning from someone who doesn't have a clue, I thought it
might be a good idea to check out what others had to say about various arts,
methods and teachers.  (I also begun to look into a few books on the subject,
and will continue to do so.) 

Assuming this to be like several other newsgroups, I didn't want to ask 
questions that had been asked a thousand times before, especially since there 
were obviously articles whose subject lines read "Re: Trying to decide which 
martial art to study" or something similar.

What I got, for most of the two-hundred postings I read, was a far cry from 
anything resembling information for a beginner.  Most of it appeared to revolve 
around: "Oh yeah?  Well, I studied thus-and-such, and I'll whup your pansy ass 
any day!" or "What do you mean, philosophy?  I'm doing this because it's a war 
zone outside my door.  Kill or be killed." or "Bruce is the greatest", "No he's
not", "Yes he is", "I came here for an argument". 

I'm sorry if I offended any of you, but that's honestly the impression I got 
from the majority of postings I read yesterday.  That was the first time that I 
had checked out the newsgroup, although I've been a long-time regular on some 
of the professional interest lists.

Granted, there were postings on technique (Faced with situation X, would you 
use kick Y, kick Z or punch A?)  But to a beginner, there's not much help 
there.

Since my posting yesterday, I've seen several replies which lead me to believe 
that there are a lot of knowledgable and yea, even humble,  readers, but that
they don't post that often.  Or perhaps, I just picked a bad week.  ;-) 

In any case, I think I will follow the advice given by several people here, and
ignore this newsgroup to go find some *REAL* students and teachers. 
-- 

 ========== U.S. Mail =============================== E-Mail =================
 Kevin Cole      <Flatline>           |  Bitnet: CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET
 Gallaudet Research Institute  (GRI)  |  Internet: KJCOLE@GALLUX.GALLAUDET.EDU
 Washington, D.C.  20002-3625         |  UUCP: ...!psuvax!gallua.bitnet!kjcole
 (202) 651-5575  x4592                |  The WELL:   kjcole
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:19:44 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <POPOVICH.92Apr6151822@morningside.cs.columbia.edu> popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich) writes:
>> <Stephen Northcutt complains about ridiculously long-legged keikogi's>
>
>Do the Japanese really
>think that all Americans are built like basketball players, 

In a word, "yes" ;-). When I bought some new gis at the Shureido factory
store in Naha back in November, I had to *plead* with them to sell me
a 4 1/2...they seemed incapable of believing that any American adult male
could possibly fit in anything smaller than a 6. The average Okinawan is
pretty short even by Japanese standards - they seem to think that all
Americans are one size: REAL BIG. I had the same problem when I lived
in Tokyo.

>or is this
>some kind of a joke?

Hmmmm....maybe both ;-)

Steve
From: karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...(oh jeez, now it's Jackie!!)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:58:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr14.105833.878

In article <1992Apr14.023813.23710@wam.umd.edu>  writes:

> > > Besides this, I think virtually everyone has annointed Bruce Lee with a
> > > god-hood of which he is undeserving.  He was a good martial artist.  I  
> > > think
> > > there are many who are much better.  
 
> > I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
> > Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
    
> JACKIE CHAN IS GOD !!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
> God, Great One, he who makes mortals quake in abject fear) actually did jump  
> into the ocean from a plane in flight. Plus he shows bloopers in the  
> end-credits of his figths, like all the times his barfing dragon block (tm)  
> missed and he got nailed. Therefore, logically, and with no emotian clouding  
> my  
> argument, he is God. :-)

We'll not get into what I suppose is clouding your argument, but
I want you to demonstrate the *barfing dragon block* at ONCE!

Karsten Hendrick
karsten@nic.gac.edu
karsten@lavatch.gac.edu
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Swords
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:40:57 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


>>fighting, it is a good reference because it cites all the reasons why Japanese
>>sword fighting is inferior (in their opinions).  

>Would you please post what you remember these to be?

As I said in the initial post, they would feel that Japanese sword fighting
was lacking in short stabbing gestures.  Chinese sword play emphasizes quite a
bit of this stuff, quick small cuts to major arteries.

No, I've never taught/studied Japanese sword except to have been privileged to
observe my Go Ju teacher's excellent handling of Japanese swords.  I've seen
quite a bit.  Anyway, you're sort of getting personal.  My comments have to do
with my observation, not my skill.  I don't pretend to be a swardsman in any
style.  I *do* however thoroughly believe in the "Chinese soft style
paradigm," that is, if you are willing to humor me and acknowledge that such a
panacea exists.
From: caldwell@bach.udel.edu (David L Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Workout videos??
Keywords: Workout, Videos, Exercise,
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:55:42 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone recommend a couple of good "workout" videos that 
provide a good workout for an active martial artist?  I'm 
looking for something that works flexibility, leg/hip strength 
and endurance.  I'd like to add an early morning workout to my 
routine, but I don't have enough ambition to do it without 
someone coaching and prodding me from the TV set :-)  I've tried 
the Workout shows, but they're more talk than action.

Thanks much!!

				--Dave


-------------------------------
Dave Caldwell
Computer & Network Services
University of Delaware
caldwell@brahms.udel.edu
From: sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:24:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcs.1992Apr6.142426.13505
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory

In article <MARY.92Apr3163247@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>
>On a related note: does anybody know anyone BESIDES Century who 
>sells uniforms/doboks/gis in split sizes?  I know Century does 
>this, but only with some uniforms.  Any others?
>--
>
Please!  I need this info also.  I'm tired of pants that are too short
and jackets that are so large I can wrap them around myself twice.

Any gi tall and *skinny* men's shops out there?  (Well, tall in 
Japanese scale anyway ;-))

							JFS




-- 
"Elvis is Ted, and Ted is the False Bob," the Elvis Lectures
"But who is Ted?  Ted is the Shaman to the Stars, the Master of MauMau,
and a general SwellGuy."  the Book of False Bobs
"Points are bad. Winning is bad. The only way to win is to lose."BookofMauMau
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: _JuJutsu_ (was: Which Style To Take)
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:38:53 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Apr7.003834.3340@psych.psy.uq.oz.au>, jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:
> It is a set of various techniques borrowed from many different martial-arts
> with a single aim in mind: to keep you alive. That is, it is for serious 
> fighting and not really intended for study as a 'way' of any sort.
 
Nonsense. All MA if practiced with the proper attitude can become
a Way. Jujutsu is practiced in a combative mode also. This is called
Sport Judo. True, it is but a facet of the whole, but it is still
combative.


--
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: On choosing a martial art
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:55:11 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Apr10.225843.1523@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.194432.12814@nic.unh.edu> D_NOLAN@unhh.unh.edu (David J Nolan) writes:
>>
>>...I see a lot of people "wondering where to start" in the MAs
>>and I have to leave my $0.02
>>
>>First of all, I see some people wanting Jiu-Jitsu or Aikido 
>>"techniques" because they don't want to damage people.
>>
>People (on occasion, I don't want to Flame here) complain that
>Aikido Uke (the one thrown) do not resist the throw.  
<snip>
>The first thing to learn in Aikido is how to survive in a non-beginner
>class.  Then you can start learning technique.

Heh heh heh...reminds me of Ikeda-sensei's explanation of "hiji-nage"
(elbow throw)...
	Do for real, do this way (barring uke's arm).
        Do in class, do *this* way (letting uke's arm roll off so he can fall)
	Otherwise, left arm, right arm, no more practice...

Steve
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Meaning???
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:56:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Apr5.191906.1114@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>  
>   I've found that I tend to slouch a lot in the cross-legged position.
>   Lovret mentions in TW&TP that monks who sit cross-legged often sit 
>   on a pillow to help keep their backs straight --

I attended a very nice Buddhist college where hours of meditation per 
day was the norm. We sat cross-legged and used cushions. Indeed, the
meditation instructors (who were Tibetan Buddhists, though most were
not Tibetans), made allowances for the relatively less-stretched
state of American knees by providing taller, stouter cushions than
the traditional Tibetan ones. Regardless of people's impressions,
Buddhist meditation is not about self-torture or constests to see
who can take the most abuse. We were even encouraged to shift about,
scratch itches, or whatever else was necessary if we became uncomfortable
:-).
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:03:18 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Apr10.111829.770@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
>against a katana, is that the katana can typically cut through the
>alloys used to make other weapons, as well as any armor someone might

	Didn't (don't?) warriors armed with spear, naginata, and even
axe ("ono",right?) regularly best katana-wielding samurai?  Wasn't
Musashi defeated by a monk with a ( :-) ) four foot staff?  A *wooden*
staff?



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: open letter to marty (aka ninjam)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:53:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: acknowledgement
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Keywords: cease fire, acknowledgement, handshakes....

	i wrote this first to marty, aka ninjam (no disrespect intended
this time....) and informed him that i was first acknowledging his effort
privately, out of respect for that effort, but that i was also going to
post this to the group, so that you all will see that hostilities have 
ceased on my part, and that i am publically acknowledging the rather
significant and generous effort in his part to end the hostilities.
	pretty damn good effort on his part, as far as i'm concerned, and
pretty damned hard to ignore....

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< * >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From doug@eng.umd.edu Mon Apr 13 12:44:29 1992
To: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Subject: handshakes...
Cc: doug@eng.umd.edu


well marty....

	that was a damn nice counter....  pretty hard to combat on a personal
level, someone who publically offers to make nice.  it was a damned nice
counter.  big, i repet *BIG* good score for you.  perhaps we can take this 
discourse to a less personal level, and try to keep it at a level more
befitting the group we inhabit *together*.  i will be willing to try to
act more civil, and we can agree to disagree in those points that we
cannot find common ground on which to stand.

	< doug extends his hand to accept marty's, and respectfully
	  acknowledges the generous and friendly gesture towards respect >

	i am sending this to you first, but i am also posting it to the group.
i wanted to address this to you first, the let the rest of the group know,
(and to publically acknowledge that *YOU* took the first and very large
steo to end this personality conflict.)
	this does not mean that i will stop disagreeing with some of your
assertions, nor question you, when i feel the need, nor should you, with
regard to me, but we *CAN* be more civilized.
	i did manage to get several pieces of information from this last round,
which i didn't know before.  i personally know and RESPECT Sifu John Tsai,
of chicago, and have worked with him several times.  this guy *IS* good,
and i can talk to him (we are personal frieds, and he and my Sifu call
each other brother....), and would have no hesitation in accepting his
opinions or knowledge.  HE is someone i woud call a respectable source.
	{touch bin/smiles/#8}
	finally, since hostilities have ceased, the word ridiculous is spelled
just that way, and not not with an 'e'.... {touch bin/smiles/#2}

	<cat stance to a shaolin 'fist in palm' bow>

	as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< * >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: naldrett@bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:13:08 GMT
Reply-To: naldrett@bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <ku9io7INNgma@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) writes:
> In article <1472@celia.UUCP> celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
> >In article <JON.92Apr9140547@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
> > 

much deleted...


> >movement wouldn't require the setup need to exert the force needed to sever
> >the arm. Also, it is possible that a slash to the arm be not be enough to
> >stop the attack immediately because it would not cut enough tissue and it
> >may only render one arm incapable of continuing the attack.
> 
>     Yes, but I'll bet that most people would give up if they sustained a
>     cut serious enough to disable their arm.

  "I cut your arm off!"

  "No you didn't, it's just a flesh wound.  Come back here and
   I'll byte your knee caps off!"


Sorry. It had to be said. I'll go home now.

> --
>     Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.
> 
>     "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
> 			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.


Steve Naldrett (naldrett@bnr.ca) | These are my opinions only, nothing else
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.      | expressed or implied.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada          |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:48:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.123029.5909@ms.uky.edu> bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.054148.8499@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
> > "Interesting" in what sense?  These references do not describe 
> > the taijutsu practiced by Hatsumi and his American disciples 
> > especially well.  For example, the idea that their art is just Judo 
> > without chokes and armbars is laughable.  The other references 
> > seem too vague to be very meaningful.  So, what caught your 
> > interest?
>
> I found it interesting the the name of the system described by Gumby
> was used in earlier times as term for jujutsu.

Oh.  I thought the name of the system was Togakure Ryu ninjutsu.
Hatsumi uses the term "taijutsu" as a generic label for the
jujutsu-like unarmed combat elements of the system.  According to
him, the system includes in its taijutsu a variety of "methods for
striking and grappling in unarmed fighting, tumbling and breaking
falls, leaping and climbing, conditioning the body and maintaining
health, as well as special ways of walking and running."

But taijutsu is only part (though obviously a major part) of Togakure
Ryu ninjutsu.  Other parts include seishin teki kyoyo (spiritual
refinement), ninja ken (sword), bo-jutsu (stick and staff),
shuriken-jutsu (throwing blades), yari-jutsu (spear fighting),
naginata-jutsu (halberd), kusari-gama (chain and sickle weapon),
kayaku-jutsu (fire and explosives), henso-jutsu (disguise and
impresonation), shinobi-iri (stealth and entering methods), ba-jutsu
(horsemanship), sui-ren (water training), and five or six others
which I'm too lazy to look up.

Or so Hatsumi says.
--
Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
National Institutes of Health                                   
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:55:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.024823.26697@alw.nih.gov>, drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:

>[some stuff deleted...]
>which I'm too lazy to look up.
>
>Or so Hatsumi says.
>--
>Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
>National Institutes of Health                                   

	someone offered to post/mail information on taijutsu (i think, well the
one that has "only 2 schools both in maryland"). please post or if you need to
send it thru' the mail contact me at :

"acharya@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu"

so we can handle postage etc.

thanks,

mukund acharya
From: d91dbl@emil.csd.uu.se (Daniel Blomqvist)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Question on Musashi
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:07:48 GMT
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden

In article <1992Apr12.082731.25447@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach) writes:
> 
> 	I remember Sensei comenting that Musashi was twice defeated
> while wandering in search for duels, and that one of the times it
> was by a ninja using a war fan (a metal fan, not a guy that likes
> war...). Having found no reference to this in the Go Rin No Sho, I
> turn to the Net-wisdom in search for an answer: does anybody knows
> the story, and also the other defeat ?
> 
> --izar

I've never heard of the defeat that you are describing. The other defeat however
was to a man using a hanbo. All this is from the novel about Musashi named
"Musashi" written by Edo. I suggest you read it. I sure someone else remembers
the full title and author name.

      Daniel

PS. Why don't you ask your sensei (Doron Navon?) about it?
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Relationships between sword and jo
Keywords: serious reply...
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:22:37 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Apr17.134120.25610@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>In article <odvQV3W00iUyQ5Vdk=@andrew.cmu.edu> ml57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Meron Langsner) writes:
>>   On first glance, many jo and sword techniques look similar, does
>>anyone know of any relationships between these wepons ? My theory is
>	i don't know about other styles, but in our style, the staff is the 
>father of all weapons.  from the staff, all techniques for weapons are derived.

It might be worth mentioning here...

It is said that XingYi was developed from Spearplay.

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:01:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr8.180147.14422
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr8.162452.25948@colorado.edu>, ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>>
>	It also helps a lot to jump up and down a few times on your heels.
>It sounds crazy, but it really works. Also I find it's actually a bad idea
>to hunch over; the pain goes away quicker if you stand up straight. 
>	Anyone else ever hear of this jumping up and down on the heels? My 
>very first instructor told me about it, and I've never heard anyone else
>suggest it. I sometimes suggest it to a fellow-student who's unlucky 
>enough to need it, but they never seem very interested in trying it out. But
>I've done it, and it helps a lot.
>				Ed Hartnett

	i have seen it in some old karate/judo books(*). i don't know how useful
it is...some people caution against it. 


(*) i think they may have been written by bruce tegner.


-m.a.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 11 Apr 1992 05:55:50 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr10.221150.25443@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <92101.171114U58294@uicvm.uic.edu> Yvonne A. McLean <U58294@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>Guys, the funniest is real life.  Some of the best laugh I get is watching
>>guys reactions to a groin hit.  I once accidentally hit my boyfriend in the
>>groin, he hit the wall, rolled from one end of a king size bed to the end,
>>hit the floor.  I did not stop laughing for the entire night.
>
>Ha, ha.  Guys, if your female friends are getting a big yuk out of
>booting you in the family jewels, don't despair!  Women hurt if you
>kick them in the groin too, so you can do it right back.  Instead of 
>coming up between the legs, just come straight in at the abdomen and
>whack them in the pubic bone.  Now the whole family can enjoy intense
>pain between the legs!

I believe the target is the ovaries, which, according to my anatomy books, are
about a fist-height above the pubic bone and to either side.  I've seen women
take an accidental hit to a gonad, and if anything, it is a more disabling 
experience than for men.  If nothing else, the utter surprise of the experience
seems to have them at a loss.

Which brings up a point I've always wondered about--are shots to the ovaries 
explicitly disallowed in competition sparring rules?


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Robinson                            UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu