From: arron@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: A deep bit of flame bait (long)
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:54:40 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

> Again, I think you may be missing the point. Babies may not know that the
> precise biological mechanisms that cause feelings of hunger, but they certainly
> know that food has something to do with it.  And while text books and science
> may not be able to explain everything, they certainly _are_ good at explaining
> _lots_ of things... and are apparently getting better all the time. The fact
> that reason can't explain a fact does not necessarily mean that the Bible can.

All things that can not easily be reasoned (IMHO) are fully understood by God,
he has used the Bible to reveal some of these things to us, some of them are
definatley not explained in the Bible, but when necessary the Holy Spirit is
able to reveal any of those things to us.
 
> Getting more back to the point, specific people may or may not be "spiritually
> hungry": it depends on the nature of the person. I was, as one point, but I'm
> of the opinion (NOTE: personal bias and opinion pending, your milage almost
> definitely differs) that Christianity, especially in the forms most common to
> today's society, is the equivalent of spirtual junk food. _I_ don't find it
> satisfying, and that is neither because I am incapable of accepting Christ, nor
> because Christ doesn't have "the answers". It's because Christ doesn't have
> _my_ answers, and there's no one to blame for that. (Except possibly Christ, if
> you believe he created me.)
 
When you say '_my_ answers' I am not sure whether you mean the answers you have
already decided upon yourself or the answers to the questions you have. If it
is the latter I would disagree, and would suggest the Christ does have all the
answers you need, yet some may not be the ones YOU want, and some may not be
revealed to you if God so decides. He will answer you in some way or other if
you ask him. Even when I did not believe in a God myself, and in jest asked God
a few sticky one's he did answer me, in fact he eventually convinced me by his
answers that he was THERE !!!!

> I see. But I didn't ask Christ to come into my life, I asked something else.
> And it's doing quite well, thank you. Furthermore, I'm unsatisfied with the way
> you write off divine revelation as being the exception to the rule.  The
> argument runs like "Christ won't change your life unless you seriously ask him
> too... or unless he feels like it." If he is all-knowing and all-powerful, and
> truly wants us to accept him as our savior, then there is _no_ reason he should
> not come to us and say "This is what I want you to do," other than through 
> some sort of perverse desire to see if the little rats can find their way 
> through the maze on their own.

Following are Common Christian Ravings (CCR's) and you are most likely not
going to agree with them, but once again, I have what I believe, and a GREAT
reason for doing so. If I do not TRY to share them with you I am not doing what
Christ is calling me to do ... eg. try with all my heart to share the gift of
salvation with you.

The divine revelation bit refers to the prophets and leaders (mostly of the Old
Testament) who God basically took by the shoulders, shook them, and said 
'LISTEN TO ME !!!!' so they could help the others of his people find the way.

But God does want us to find our own way, not like rats through a maze though.
He has given us a road beside the one that we first travel along, with a big
sign that says 'THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY !!!' and he put a big sign on the one we
are travelling on saying 'BEWARE ... TRAPS AHEAD'. When you decide to move over
onto the right road you then have a personal guide (The Holy Spirit) who will
clearly help you to stay on the road if you talk and walk with Him.

Unfortunately, I must also tell you of what Christ says 'I am the way, the
truth, and the light, no man can come to the father except by me'. You say you
have asked something else into your life, the God who *IS* true to me, tells me
through his word, that anything else just won't cut it in the end !!!

> I understand that you are well-intentioned, but the road to hell... well, 
> that's a Christian saying that I'm not sure I agree with, so I'll leave that 
> there. The point being, it isn't your care that I want, since if it's not in
> your nature to care anyway, I don't want it. It's your respect I want. I want 
> you to respect my decision to find fulfillment in other religions, or 
> philosophies, or whatever I choose. As a rational adult, I deserve the respect
> to make my own spiritual decisions that I afford you to make yours. To bring 
> this argument full circle, it is when I hear warnings of "accept Christ or go 
> to hell," I am not merely disagreeing, or "finding it relevant". I'm _angry_, 
> because you won't accord me the same basic respect for my judgement that I do 
> for you. And that is most certainly a reson for argument.

I do respect your right to choose, that is the whole point of the free will
that God gave us in the beginning, but Christ/God have proved to me beyond
reasonable doubt that they are God of all. I am now in a position where I must
at least tell you what I know, so YOU (and ONLY YOU) can make a more informed
choice.
 
> And spirits guide you, Arron... and hopefully open your eyes a bit wider.

	I was lost but NOW I'm found
	I was blind but NOW I see

From my FAVOURITE hymn ... Amazing Grace, my eyes have already be opened to
their fullness !!!

Have a great Christmas time, as we remember the birth of the Son Of God, who
came, who died, who rose again !!!!

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from:arron@waikato.ac.nz			Arron Scott
						University Of Waikato
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,talk.bizarre,soc.singles