From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: GP wants you, was Re: government organic food purchas
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 08:14:26 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov18.162804.27148@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@sunSITE.unc.edu writes:

 > Either you can't read or you've deliberately blocked out the attacks
 > made by the agrichemical set. Wonder why? Wonder why you're so willing to
 > throw in the towel when it comes to continuing the effort to move agribusiness
 > away from less sustainable/more toxic methods. Maybe you don't know much
 > about natural farming. 

Sorry, there have been no attacks by the "agrochemical set" received
at this end, yet I do understand that I have received the newsfeed
within about two weeks of it being established. Unless there was a
massive premeditated invasion by said "agrochemical set" designed to
totally destablise your pet project within that short period, I am
afraid I have simply missed all the excitement.

Now having said that, I suggest that I have not yet thrown in any
towel on any matter whatsoever. Maybe you, fellow, just don't know
anything about Australia, or about the particular problems we have
here which *DO NOT*, I repeat *DO NOT*, lend themselves to your
"natural farming". Even the Aboriginal people in 40,000 years never
practiced the methods you seek to promote, since the environment is
totally unsuited to them.

Wonder why what? Do you imply by such preposterous innuendo that I may
be in the pay of some wicked joint consortium of bankers and chemical
companies to thwart your enterprise, or some such patent nonsense. I am
very sorry, but my initial impression was that in having this news group
alt.sustainable.agriculture established your desire was to see a forum
making some contribution to the development of sustainable agriculture.

I am here for that end only, not to cater to the hysterical political
campaign you and your pals have been pursuing here instead.

 > >the capitalist monoculture designed by evil chemical corporations
 > >and bankers to exploit farmers and pollute the world to their own
 > >neferious ends.
 > You said it, we (the organic folks) didn't. None of us have ever spewed
 > such drivel.

What on earth are you on about then? If nothing, then you are simply
blithering, yes?

 > > There is no such conspiracy, and perhaps such wholly
 > How would you know? 

What a nonsensical argument! How would you know yourself? Why not post
some facts instead of carrying on with this really very stupid campaign
which achieves no purpose whatever.

 > >paranoid promoters of singular alternatives might just relax a little
 > >so we can all begin working together to sort out some of the problems
 > >involved with feeding people.
 >  
 > We've been doing just that. You haven't been reading. Or you've blocked it 
 > out or submerged it in rhetoric to make it look as if we've only been
 > flaming the agrichemical set.

I have been reading. Again, how about some factual reports instead, to
at least give an impression that you have something more substantial
in mind from what has been posted here to date.

 > None of us organic folks have been bogging down the discussion.

Perhaps others of us simply do not wish to take sides on the matter,
and object to you "organic folks" abusing others on the assumption
that we are on the other "side" to you. If you had wanted to create
an alt.organic newsgroup why did you not simply do so. The name of
this world forum is quite plainly alt.sustainable.agriculture.

 > Crap? Your drivel is so lacking in content I usually hit the 'n' key 
 > without reading your posts. We've been enlightening you people on a regular
 > basis as to the possibilities of natural farming; you simply have not been
 > reading what we're saying, or maybe you just can't comprehend it.

Exalted guru, has it occurred to you that I may be fully appraised of
your methods yet do not, as I persist in patiently and consistently
advising you, see them being applied here in Australia for some very
long time to come. Would you like to come and visit, and see the place
for yourself? Or perhaps simply read something of what I am trying to
say instead of just deleting it.

While ever you play such a silly childish game you lack any sort of
credibility whatsoever.

 > It's pretty obvious at this point that you, Christie and Kilen are phonies
 > and are posting your drivel here in an attempt to disrupt this conference.
 > In future I will neither read or archive any of your posts. When I learn
 > how to create a kill file I'll purge your posts in a more efficient manner.

Yes, that seems to be your solution to whatever you fail to comprehend.

"We are being invaded by phonies intent on disrupting our proceedings,
true and loyal followers! Kill these heretics! Delete their posts! Burn
their books! Close your ears and minds to their evil plot lest you be
possessed by bad spirits!"

 > Now that your position is clear we can get on with the business of
 > learning how to make farming organically an even more productive and
 > sustainable enterprise without wasting time listening to you and your
 > anti-organic-farming colleagues.

Lawrence, dear pathetic creature, we are plainly *not* anti-organic-
farming. I am FOR sustainable agriculture and posting here to the
group alt.sustainable.agriculture at your invitation.

 > Why don't you start your own newsgroup, i.e. alt.agriculture, where
 > you might feel more comfortable?

Simply because you invited me to this one. I have your mail on the
matter, if you would like to me unzip it. In fact you were quite
insistent at the time that I do not start my own mailing list, but
wait until this group got started. Now because I have failed to so
slavishly adhere to your own personal ideology on organic farming
methods, on the clearly stated basis that they are yet nowhere near
appropriate for Australia, you now react in paranoid hysteria to get
rid of me.

If you had wanted to restrict your network to American organic growers
why did you not simply call it the group us.organic. Why create a world
forum on sustainable agriculture to start with, and then go to all the
trouble of impressing upon people from right around the other side of
the planet that they should join such a group?

No wonder we are unable to get any sense out of you.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
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Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture