From: fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: (Repost: original post was munged) Why is TCP/IP treated like it isn't really part of Linux sometimes?
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:35:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.weqUjJO00VpcMEPl4D
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

If you see a post almost exactly like this, please ignore it. It got
munged, so I tried to kill it when it was sending, but I don't know if
it still went through.
---

Sorry if this sounds like a whine, but I am in the process of getting an
effort going here to better support networking in Linux, and am having
doubts about whether it is worth it, so please bear with me:

	Why is TCP/IP treated as not really part of Linux much of the time?
TCP/IP is very important to some of us (I know a *LOT* of people here at
CMU where that is *THE* primary consideration when it comes to running
Linux). We discuss X, international keyboards, CD-ROMs, terminal
concentrators, and everything else under the sun on this newsgroup here
(in most cases, rightly so), but push off most of the TCP/IP discussion
to the NET channel of the mailing list. I understand some specialization
into different lists/newsgroups is good, but TCP/IP really should get a
fair share of the dicussion here. If Linux really wants to be considered
a real UN*X and be *useful* to people, they have to support what has
become a central feature to UN*X, i.e. networking (which UN*X does
better than any other OS, since it is multi-user and multi-tasking). We
need everyone's input, so we can work out the bugs. Also, we should look
at already existing TCP/IP code out there (like the 386BSD TCP/IP), if
it wouldn't be too dangerous when it comes to AT&T (which I doubt, since
the code is public by now, and written by Berkeley, but I'm not a
lawyer). We should give more priority to implementing the TCP/IP ioctl's
and fixing all bugs TCP/IP still has (like kernel panics, sockets
returning invalid argument, especially with X) Also, having hidden
directories on FTP sites isn't really productive.

	Finally, make TCP/IP be compiled into the kernal by default! It is part
of it! For example, SLS 0.98 has SCSI CD-ROM compiled in, but not
TCP/IP. Standard UN*X pratice dictates that one have the standard kernel
have drivers for everything, so you can operate until you can customize
and complie the kernel with only the drivers you need. Also, have it
come with ftp, telnet, etc binaries. Many people would really appreciate
it.

	I, and I assume many other people who are/want to work on TCP/IP find
these problems very disillusioning at times. So to keep us, and by
extension Linux (its future as a real OS) going, try to work on shifting
your focus more towards networking (a fair share is all we need). Thanks
in advance.

	Sorry if this seems like a flame, its not intended to be. I do *really*
appreciate the work the Linus, Ross Biro, etc. have done with the kernel
and the OS. It is a very good OS with a lot of potential, and I'd hate
to see that wasted. So lets change our attitude towards one that does
not see TCP/IP as apart from Linux, but rather as a part of it.

	Thanks in advance.

BTW, what I and some others here are working on/going to be working on
is a token-ring driver. We have some code we found, that has to be
merged in the kernel. Before I do anything, I want to make sure  that it
will continue to work with new releases of the kernel, etc. something I
can only depend on if the TCP/IP is properly supported.