HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: malx0664%steer@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Generic Account 0664)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:36:32 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University


From malx0664%steer@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Generic Account 0664)

In article <1992Apr7.035242.7155@cbnews.cb.att.com> ha0h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Herbert Simon Ascherman) writes:
>
>   A friend of mine's father was wounded by white phosphorus in WWII,
>and he and I were wondering what exactly WP is, what it does and how it
>works.
>            Thanks.

Well, form what I was taught in artillery school in the Corps
phosphorus is an element that burns as long as it is in contact with 
oxygen. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that WP is just purified
phosphorus.

Charles Herbig
malx0664@steer.sdsu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Subject: Re: US Navy's request for Beretta M9 cancellation...
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:22:14 GMT


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)

> The problem is that 9mm is supersonic (i.e. loud) and thus difficult
> to silence, where the 45 delivers slightly better stopping power.

Slightly?  I thought you REARLY can knock someone down with Bretta in one shot. 
On the other hand, one 45 is one 45, and he will yell pretty bad.  I even heard
some stories telling some Naval officers shot down Japanese planes with that
baby, don't if it's true.

SF
bvc

-- 
******************************************************************************
* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re:  Low Altitude Training
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:51:02 GMT


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Apr8.234759.25433@cbnews.cb.att.com> brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu writes:

>Sounds like we're collecting more than two [countries doing low altitude
>flying].

I'd say so. On a tour of Bavaria a couple of years ago, I saw a
Luftwaffe pilot following the Rhine (turns and all) at about the level
of the surrounding hills. I was on one of those tour boats at the time.
He appreared to be holding nearly a 90 degree bank to make one of the
bends in the river. I had time for one fast (and bad) photo as he went
over.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | The gum-chewing girl and the cud-chewing cow
                    | are very alike, and yet different somehow
George Patterson -  | And after much study I think I know now.
                    | It's the clear, thoughtful look
                    |                        on the face of the cow.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: EGYED@LNS62.TN.CORNELL.EDU (Zoltan Egyed (607)-255-4882)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Some strange ideas on air assault
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:38:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Apr8.233855.22863
Organization: AT&T


From "Zoltan Egyed (607)-255-4882" <EGYED@LNS62.TN.CORNELL.EDU>

After too much time on the computer, got some far-fetched ideas on
making a paratroop landing more concentrated in time, and to reduce
the time needed to bring in some heavy stuff.
What if a full-sized carrier sneaked close to the target (assume 3rd world),
loaded to the brim with paratroopers (the ONLY kind of soldier :-)  ),
and with some mid-size planes (maybe with rocket assist for takeoff),
-> the turnaround time of the planes can be much shorter, enabling to
put down more men during the beginning hours. Maybe: having some
C-130 Hercules (there are records that it took off with full load
in 600 feet, without catapult or rocket assist), and have some
M1A1 Abrams on the carrier. Airborne commanders would love to have them
fast after landing.
Any comments?

  Zoltan Egyed
  Egyed@lns61.tn.cornell.edu
From: aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: US SMG
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:15:37 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From "a.j.s. nusbacher" <aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca>

A buddy of mine in the Canadian army has heard of a 9mm SMG version of the
M16.  This sounds weird--firing a pistol round out of a rifle.  Anybody know
if it's for real?

_____________________________________________________________________________
        Aryk Nusbacher                .. .. Celebrating the 20th Anniversary    
                                      ||_||  of Women Members of Hart House 
          Hart House                  | I |     || ||          || ||  ..    ..
Informal Education in the University  |   |   . ||_||__________||_||  || ___||
                                      | O |___|_|__________________|__| /  \ |
    aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca         |   |       o oo  oo  oo   o      |__| |
                                      |_A_|_______A_oo  oo  oo   A__^^^______|
_____________________________________________________`------------____________
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:20:35 GMT


From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>

Here is what I have on the Su-27.

The Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker was assigned to the Soviet Air Defense Forces, as
well as being deployed on the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, where it
was modified in a STOL role. It is highly manuverable and is compared to
the General Dynamics F-15E Strike Eagle. The orignial is an air-intercept
fighter, but a ground-attack version is being produced. It is a fly-by-wire
aricraft, and automatically adjusts the full-span trailing edge and half
spand trailing edge flaps to maximize performance. There are small canards
forward, and is not fitted for in-flight refueling. The aircraft has track-
while-scan radar, infrared search-and-track and laser range finding systems.
It is reported to carry eight AA-10 Alamo missles or 13,200 lbs. (6,000 kg)
of other ordanance. There is also a two-seat trainer called teh Su-27UB.
First flight, which was called the P-42, was 20 May 1977, and entered
service in 1986. It is produced at Komsomol'sk.

Crew: 1 (2 in Su-27UB)
Engines: 2 Lyulka AL-31F turbojet; 27,588 lbst (12,500 kgst) each with
         afterburner.
Weights: empty 39,00 lbs (17,690 kg)
         normal T/O 48,400 lbs (22,000 kg)
         maxiumum T/O 66,139 lbs (30,000 kg)
Dimensions: span 48 ft 2 in (14.7 m)
            length 71 ft 10 1/2 in (21.9 m)
            height 18 ft (5.5 m)
Speed: maxiumum 1,553 mph (2,500 km/h) Mach 2.35
       1,320 mph (2,120 km/h) Mach 2 with 8 AAMs
Ceiling: UNKNOWN
Range: radius 930 miles (1,500 km) with 8 AAMs
       maxiumum 2,485 miles ( 4,000 km)
Armament: up to 13,200 lbs (6,000 kg) of external stores (AA-8 Aphid/AA-10
          Alamo/AA-11 Archer air-to-air missiles, rochert pods, bombs)
Radar: Slot Back (multi-mode Doppler)

Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com
Leader, Military and Arms topic, Hobbies Conference, Exec-PC BBS (414)789-4210

"Eternal peace lasts only until the next war."-Old Russian Proverb
From: cws@mbunix.mitre.org (Chris)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Smart mine question
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:30:14 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Full-Name: News Service


From cws@mbunix.mitre.org (Chris)

I worked on some smart naval mines about 9 years ago. The method of
destroying the vessel didn't involve the explosion happening close to the
ship at all.  Basically the mine sits on the bottom, decides from whatever
criteria it uses when to detonate.  The detonation produces a very
localized pressure wave which lifts the ship, hopefully along the
centerpoint.  Secondary waves repeat that action and tend to crack/twist
the ship at it middle.

The systems I worked on were designated for shallow water.  Since I have
been away from it for so long I don't remember what is and isn't classified
so I can't classify shallow or how much explosives the things used.  They
did claim to be able to sink a good size ship with a single mine.

Just my two cents from what is probably fading memory...

Chris Wilder-Smith
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Subject: Re: Su-29?
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:34:49 GMT


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)

In article <1992Apr10.014543.10892@cbnews.cb.att.com>, dfc@sunflare.Corp.Sun.COM (Dan Currie) writes:

>>The Su-27 ``Flanker'' is most similar to the USAF's F-14 and F-15,

> The USAF doesn't fly the F-14, the USN does. I'm sure the Pop. Mech. meant
> well though.

>>and a short runway takeoff performance of 1100 feet at 135 knots (the F-14
>>and F-15 need around 2000 feet).
> 
> 2000 feet! I thought the F-15 needed about 4000 feet. I don't think any
> USAF plane can take off in less than 3000, except for maybe the C-130.

Oh well, You don't see F-14 takes off over 300 very often.  AV-8B jumps in for
short take off, maybe the C-17.

SF
bvc

-- 
******************************************************************************
* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
******************************************************************************
From: ha0h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Herbert Simon Ascherman)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: White Phosphorus
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:52:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From Herbert Simon Ascherman <ha0h+@andrew.cmu.edu>

   A friend of mine's father was wounded by white phosphorus in WWII,
and he and I were wondering what exactly WP is, what it does and how it
works.
            Thanks.
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Launching torpedoes at depth
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:03:03 GMT


From henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

>From Tony.Buckland@mtsg.ubc.ca
> would have thought the problem of using compressed air to fire torpedoes
> could easily be solved by using water instead (i.e. flood _behind_ the
> torpedo and either use a pump or let the torpedo use its own screw slowly
> until clear of the tube)...

There are swim-out torpedos, slightly smaller in diameter and with studs
on their sides to keep them centered in the tube.  I'm not sure what the
tradeoffs are like, other than the obvious loss of warhead size and fuel
capacity due to the smaller size.  (Bear in mind that your existing sub
fleet has torpedo tubes of one specific size, and it would be a horrendous
rebuilding job to enlarge them, so you're stuck with the tube interior
dimensions.  This comes up in other contexts; for example, AMRAAM could
be any size and shape the designers wanted :-) provided it fit into the
Sparrow-shaped mountings on thousands of existing fighters.)

I believe water-pressure expulsion has been tried, but pumping quite a bit
of high-pressure water in a hurry is even harder than supplying compressed
air in equivalent amounts.
-- 
GCC 2.0 is to C as SVR4 is to Unix.     | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
                             -Dick Dunn |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: How smart are U.S./Russian Sonobuoys?
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:31:41 GMT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)

In article <1992Apr15.042246.9785@cbnews.cb.att.com>, bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP) writes:
 
> I believe it has rudementary abilities, but wouldn't it mainly be used with
> the likes of a dipping sonar from a helo?   

P-3 can't carry one of those and dipping sonar has a very limited range, so you
have dip, take it up, go somewhere else and dip, take it up, go somewhere else,
where as you can monitoring a area with a few sonarbouyes.

SF
bvc

-- 
******************************************************************************
* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
******************************************************************************
From: bburns@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil (Barry Burns)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: smart tank mines
Summary: smart tank mines
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:58:21 GMT
Organization: U.S. ARMY MATERIEL SYSTEMS ANALYSIS ACTIVITY (AMSAA), APG, MD.


From Barry Burns <bburns@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil>


In article <1992Apr13.033403.3806@cbnews.cb.att.com>, napalm@next09pg2.wam.umd.edu (Warren L. Mohn) writes:
> 
> From napalm@next09pg2.wam.umd.edu (Warren L. Mohn)
> 
> I read somewhere that a couple companies have developed smart anti-tank  
> mines.

      Wide Area Mine (WAM) - The WAM is a smart, autonomous
mine currently in the engineering and manufacturing phase of
development.  There are several concepts for delivering the 
WAM to the battlefield: hand-emplaced (HE), volcano, MLRS, and
ATACMS.  The Army is currently developing the HE-WAM only, with
other concepts as pre-planned product improvements.  
      Once emplaced on the battlefield, the WAM begins detecting
targets with one of its acoustic sensors.  If a target is sensed,
other acoustic and seismic sensors 'wake-up' and attempt to track
the target.  A Closest-Point-of-Approach (CPA) is calculated, and if
the CPA distance is within the range of the WAM, a smart sublet is
launched at the predicted CPA, over the target (hopefully).  If the 
sublet path intercepts the target path, the IR (3-5 micron) sensor
will search for the 'hot-spot' of the target.  If found, an Explosively
Formed Penetrator (EFP) is fired attempting to penetrate the engine 
deck and achieve at least a mobility kill of the target.  
      About a year ago Popular Mechanics had a brief article on the 
WAM, but I don't know the date.

       Anti-Helicopter Mine (AHM) - This is a  concept similar to
WAM, and much earlier in its materiel acquisition phase.  All I know
is that the sublet is upside down with respect to the WAM, so that the 
helicopters can be detected and serviced from the bottom.

===========================================================
Barry J. Burns        Independent Evaluator for WAM
Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 21005-5071
===========================================================
From: AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Low Altitude Training
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:47:27 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service


From <AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>


Since we're talking about low altitude training:

I was in Israel about 3-4 years ago and spent a day at the Dead Sea.
One side of the sea is in Israeli hands, the other (as I recall)
belongs to Jordan.  (At last look, the two countries are technically
in a state of war).  Anyway, I was walking along the shore and I
heard jet noises.  I looked up and saw two fighter jets of some sort
(they were moving pretty fast) come over a hill _close_ to the
water's edge, drop down below hilltop level, go over the Dead Sea and,
just before crossing into Jordanian airspace, (which starts in the
middle of the sea) hook a left turn and go parallel to the border.
The entire manuver took place in under 10 seconds, under a mile
(between the hill and border), and under 200 feet above ground level
(the Dead Sea is lower than sea level). It was great flying. (IMHO :)

                      -Alec D. Isaacson
                       AI4CPHYW @ miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
                       isaacson @ rogue.acs.muohio.edu (NeXt Mail)
                       Miami University, Oxford, OH
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you blow chunks and she comes back she's yours . . . If you hurl
and she doesn't come back, it was never meant to be."
                        -Words to live by from Wayne and Garth
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: paj <paj@gec-mrc.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Low Altitude Training
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:40:07 GMT


From paj <paj@gec-mrc.co.uk>


Its not just fighters that train at low altitude.  I once saw a C-130
Hercules fly down a Welsh valley well below hilltop height.  I would
guess it was 2-300 feet AGL.  You could almost hear the navigator
saying to the pilot "Take the next valley on the left".

I go hang gliding.  We have a freephone number to notify the RAF about
planned activity, but there have been incidents where low flying
fighters have zipped past a ridge occupied by a gaggle of gliders.

Paul.
From: briand@anasaz.UCAR.EDU (Brian Douglass)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Time to Climb (Was Re: Su-29?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:28:11 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az


From briand@anasaz.UCAR.EDU (Brian Douglass)

In article <1992Apr10.014543.10892@cbnews.cb.att.com> dfc@sunflare.Corp.Sun.COM (Dan Currie) writes:
>
>In article 24125@cbnews.cb.att.com, Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>>The Su-27 ``Flanker'' is most similar to the USAF's F-14 and F-15,
>>generate 55,000 pounds of thrust, giving the Su-27 a top speed of 1550 mph,
>>and a short runway takeoff performance of 1100 feet at 135 knots (the F-14
>>and F-15 need around 2000 feet).
>
>2000 feet! I thought the F-15 needed about 4000 feet. I don't think any
>USAF plane can take off in less than 3000, except for maybe the C-130.


Given all the vaunted statistics of the Su-27 and MiG-29, have they ever
broken the F-15 Time to Climb record?  As I remember, the take roll was 300
feet (a do-it yourself catapault by means of being held back by cables with 
explosive bolts, and going to full after-burner!), after which the pilot
climbed straight up to 10,000 ms, Elimened over, accellerated to
supersonic, and then pitched it straight up until he punched through 30,000
ms.  Total time, 3 minutes.

-- 
"You want to know what's scary?  The Third World has 12 new members and
some of them are nuclear armed!"  Former US intelligence officer.

Brian Douglass			briand%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
				602-870-3330 X657
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Buried Lancasters
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:48:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Apr8.004856.13453
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)


From fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)

Just out of curiousity, who would be the legal owner if
someone were to recover the aircraft ? The Govt or the
one recovering it ?
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Mriya
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:18:57 GMT
Keywords: Mriya, big plane, Su-29


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

According to the latest issue of "Flying", the Russians have announced
plans to attend the EAA gathering at Oshkosh again this year. They
intend to exhibit the Antonov Mriya (the world's larget aircraft) on
which there was a thread here some months back. They also intend to
bring at least one Su-29 (the one that does the "cobra" maneuver) and,
of course, some of their Sukhoi acrobatics aircraft.

Last year they were selling 15 minute flights in the fighter for $10K.
One fellow who took them up on this said it was well worth it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | If you take a dog which is starving and feed him
George Patterson -  | and make him prosperous, that dog will not bite
                    | you. This is the primary difference between a dog
                    | and a man.             Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Coastal defense
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:24:15 GMT


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Apr10.235215.13322@cbnews.cb.att.com> jlc@u.washington.edu (Jeffrey Casterline) writes:

>	Carrying the thread that has been appearing on this board,
>vis-a-vis a "poor-man's cruise missile", does the US actually
>maintain an adequate air-based coastal defense to shoot down
>some kind of sea-launched weapon like this?
>
>	I recognize that here and there the US has various
>Naval and USAF air bases for training purposes.  Beyond this, what
>other assets might be deployed?  Are there aircraft stationed at
>these training facilities with sufficient and approporiate armament
>to engage a cruiise missile or other air craft?

There is a network of bands of military defense airspace, known as a "Air
Defense Identification Zone" ("ADIZ") surrounding the U.S. Any aircraft
entering one of these zones *will* be intercepted unless it has a valid
flight plan on file and establishes communication with the controlling
authorities.

Most interceptions of this nature are performed by the National Guard.
Customs also will intercept flights which appear to be smugglers (ie.
low altitude flights). The Air Force gets involved if the area also
happens to be a "Military Operations Area". The Guard in Virginia is
currently using F-4 Phantoms for interceptions; one recently collided
with a light aircraft during an interception (the aircraft had filed
a flight plan for Miami and then tried to fly to Norfolk).

While smugglers continue to demonstrate the ability to get through this
airspace, they generally do so either by making customs believe that
they are just a normal flight, or by using techniques which would require
a pretty good pilot.

I doubt that it would be possible for any unpiloted aircraft to make it.

I am somewhat surprised that in this entire thread no-one has mentioned
the "Mistel" so far.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | "Zero Defects": The result of shutting down a
                    |    production line.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>
Subject: Re: US Navy's request for Beretta M9 cancellation...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:08:28 GMT


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>


>Do you have any data on stopping power comparisons between .45 and 9mm?  It
>apprears that there is a book out there, whose name and and author escapes me 
>atthe moment, that details actual shooting statistics for various calibers.

I haven't looked up the ballistics but I have a WWII vintage German
helmet that has a nice big dent from a .45 round. Next to the dent is
a small hole from a German 9mm round. This damage was done from about
5' distance and says nothing about stopping power, just penetration
of light armor. 

	
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Lafford			|
Eastman Kodak Co.		|
lafford@serum.kodak.com	|
===========================================================================