From: schabel@calspan.com (Dave Schabel)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,alt.fan.dan-quayle,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: DATELINE: Bush fucks up!
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:24:47 GMT
Organization: Calspan Advanced Technology Center

In article <1992Aug26.225301.24877@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.135803.10046@sinix.UUCP> ian@sinix.UUCP (Ian Malone) writes:
>>Ya just got to love the thinking behind the reactionary right.
>>
>>Abortions - 	Immoral, we can't allow killing those innocent children.
>>Crime - 	Tougher laws, put those criminals in jail, more police.
>>Guns - 		Hey, A God  <the Christian God, only one we tolerate, right?>
>>		Given Right.
>>Welfare -	Fuck the poor.
>>Death Penality  Kill the criminals before they can reproduce and try an
>>		abortion.
>>
>>Like, Duh.  Think about it.  Who gets pregnant unintentionally?  The Poor.

Oh?  I didn't realize that this was the case.  Why do you believe this?

>>So, you cut off their access to abortions and what do you get?  Poor Children,
>>who grow up and become, in most likelihood <and don't feed me your
>>American Dream Crap - that went with the reduction of aid to Colleges and
>>inner-city schools> they become poor adults.

I see.  You would rather head off the problem by killing these
poor children in gestation before they became poor adults.

>>
>>Now, still with me?  Who commits most of the crime?  Well educated white
>>folks with college degrees and some sense of stability?  Not!  
>>
>>So basically, the short sighted, Reactionary Right Wing Puppets of the 
>>Southern Fundamentalists want to force you to have a kid you don't want to 
                                         ^^^               ^^^
>>have, don't want to raise, and couldn't afford to raise even if you did.

Are you speaking to me?

>>
>>His future? 
>>He lives in a city that we can't afford to subsidize.  He goes to poor 
>>schools that have their funding reduced more and more as the majority of the
>>country's tax base relocates to the suburbs.  With limited choices, he is
>>much more likely to become a criminal.  No you say?  Well, if poor inner-
>>city people aren't the criminals then who are?  Us white bread suburbenites,
>>I don't think so. 

I keep getting confused as to who your intended audience is.  

>>
>>So, now we have created a criminal.

Riiiight.  So we should rather assume that all persons with limited
job skills and low income are menaces to society, and allow them
to be killed before they can become a threat.  Not my idea of a 
perfect society, Adolf.  

I would rather give each individual a *chance* to make something
of him/herself *before* allowing society to pass judgement.
If they became menaces to that society of a sufficient scale, _then_
and _only_then_ could I condone their purposeful death.  I prefer
that people like you not make those decisions a priori.

>>He is well armed because all you Right Wing Gun Loving Hillbilly Rednecks
>>think that any moment now America might turn into Nazi Germany if we have
>>any sort of gun control.

Well, I hadn't really believed it'd go that far, but you're beginning
to convince me that it's possible.

But he is armed because he wants to be.  No amount of gun control
could prevent someone who is determined to get a gun from achieving
that goal, if they are willing to break the law.  I presume that
the individual to which you are referring is willing to break the law.

>>Our Tax Dollars now have to go into larger police departments, who are more
>>likely to beat the shit out of people because they are scared to death
>>of all those fully automatic machine guns that you Field&Stream types need
>>for hunting those savage deer.

You are indeed a victim of media distortion.  You have my pity.  Please
try to find some factual information on the subject.  I am willing
to help, but we have so far to go that email seems the proper venue
for this discussion.  Hint:  licensed fully automatic machine guns are
_not_ a crime problem.  If fully automatic machine guns seem to be
prevalent in crime, it simply shows that the criminals _will_ get
whatever armament they desire, law or no law.

>>Our Prisons are out of control.
>>And now, at the other end of the spectrum, the bunch of you want to implement
>>the Death Penality.
>>
>>I really don't get it.  Some one please explain it to me.  <man, if that
>>doesn't turn out to be an unnecessary request>  Make sure that kid is
>>born.  Don't give a shit about him until he uses the guns you make sure he
>>has access to for purposes of crime.  Pour money into the police.  Catch
>>that fucker and put him in The Chair.

Where should we stop in this predetermination of usefuleness to society?
Should we have children tested in early grade school?  Those with
scientific/mathematical aptitude will be put on a college track, those
with mechanical aptitude on a trade school track, those with
physical size/strength groomed for labor, and all others disposed of?
Or should we instead train them somewhat equally, and let _them_
determine their final outcome.  And, yes, if they turn out to threaten
the lives and well-being of the rest of society, then they should
be removed from society either through imprisionment or capital
punishment.

>>
>>Well.  Glad I got that off my chest.  By the way,  Clinton is a complete
>>DipShit, and I am not seriously gonna vote Libertarian.  I guess I may
>>try to stay in Europe.  
>>
>>Flame On, Rednecks!
>>
>>Ian Malone
>
>AMAZING I COULD NOT HAVE SAID ANY OF THIS BETTER MYSELF
>I think we should elect ***YOU*** president of the USA!!!!
>Are you actually a real American if so it is your DUTY
>to enter politics and save your country!
>
>I thought I would spread this around to a few more newsgroups!
>
>ALEX
>
				Dave Schabel
				schabel@calspan.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton