HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: borbor@divsun.unige.ch (Boris Borcic)
Subject: Re: Def. of Intell*gence
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 15:16:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.133836.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsgaw1@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
> W
> What is intellegence??
> It is the ability to understand the knowledge needed to survive and
> to thrive. To have more or less, is a two edge sword.

What about the aptitude to seduce partners into carrying and raising
your offsprings ? :-)

My French dictionary has two entries for intelligence, the second roughly
defines it as a state of common understanding and agreement. Does this
meaning carry over to English ?

--------

This is the first time I read this newsgroup, and...

I am a bit surprised not to find the discussion of the definitions of
intelligence in the FAQ post. Except of course implicitly ("Intelligence is
what each of us had, and scoring high in an IQ test is how s/he proved it").

Somehow, I believe that excessive stress on individual intellectual
aptitude (and property) is a significant cause of biasses and
 misconceptions, in sciences and further.

As an illustration, take the recent shift of paradigm from
'Artificial Intelligence' to 'Artificial Life'. What is common to both
research projects is the intent to model our own functioning using
computers. I believe the change of denomination reveals a prejudice
that had to be dropped.

Now, as far as intelligence is about understanding, it is concerned
with backtracking over biasses that may impair understanding. The very
definition of Mensa carries the bias I point out, in an archetypal way.
I expect that all these intelligent people would find the prevention
of its possible ill effects an obvious question.

> 
> ::Death is life's way of telling you, that you've been Fired!!!::
>

If it wasn't for the existence of pain, I would say here that
death may be a way of telling you that it's not your turn to think.

Regards,  Boris Borcic


------ God does not play dice, He plays billiards (like God) -----------
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: RG Blurb
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:25:35 GMT

Steve Yaros:
>I need a little guidance here.  Tidewater Mensa is putting on an RG in February
>1992.  Would it be in bad form or against rec.org.mensa policy to put in a 
>publicity blurb about it now and then?

Poor form?  No.  I made a little plug for HalloweeM myself two weeks
ago.

However, it would be a bit pointless as those of us without time
travel abilities will be unable to attend.
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Perot and trust
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:19:12 -0500

  MC> From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
  MC> Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL
  MC> 
  MC> thomas wrentmore
  MC> barnes:
  > ... they would vote for [Perot], if they didn't think that a vote for
  > Perot would be a vote taken from Clinton and a vote the could help Bush
  > win.  ... It seems to me that this is a great example of "imperfect
  > knowledge" affecting a "market", or the prisoner's dilemma game ...
  > 
  MC> This sentiment was felt a lot during the Anderson campaign.  Soon
  MC> after there appeared a column in Scientific American about the
  MC> already-proposed but little-known balloting method called "approval
  MC> voting." In approval voting, each voter may vote for as many of the
  MC> candidates as he or she wants.  The candidate with the most votes
  MC> wins. Obviously, if you vote for all of them, that has no different
  MC> effect from voting for none of them.  But if you favor "anybody but
  MC> X," you have a way of saying so.

I _believe_ Mensa still uses the "Preferential" voting system, by which we
numerically rank the candidates.
From: yaros@sab57.larc.nasa.gov (Steve Yaros)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RG Blurb
Date: 15 Oct 1992 17:51:34 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sab57.larc.nasa.gov

OK...our Tidewater VA RG competition will be in CA and NH, so I don't think we'll 
be competing directly for that many people.  All the info is in the Bulletin, but
our main thrust for the 10th Great Dismal Swamp RG is our "Stars in Your Eyes"
theme...we're sending Amrus Alligator into space!  We'll have the usual RG stuff 
plus tours to the brand-new Air and Space Museum here.  The registration fee 
of $64 includes three full meals, and the $39 hotel fee includes two full
breakfasts.  I'll send out more info as things develop, and I welcome all
inquiries (I happen to have been chosen as registrar...lucky me!).
.   
-- 
                           |                                                   
    Steve from Norfolk     | ...be aware that a walk through the river of most           
 yaros@sab57.nasa.larc.gov | people's souls would scarcely get your feet wet...
      804-864-3050         |                                  Deteriorata 1977
___________________________|____________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: t// Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:52:23 CDT

{Bogus name} from {bogus address} writes:

*sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
*|> I have much better things to concern myself with.  You know, the thing 
*|> you said you had a few months ago but have apparently lost?
*
*Which is?  Dissertation?  Virginity?  Help me out here... :)

A life.  Your virginity is your own problem.  Or virtue.  Or feature.  Or
whatever.  Anyway, it's yours.

*|> Interesting.  You keep saying that you enjoy intelligent debate but I have
*|> yet to see anything more than proposals and theories from you. No rebuttals,
*|> nada.  Although, I will admit your last question about the "separate but 
*|> equal" is intriguing.  Could you elaborate?
*
*No--every time I try to initiate intelligent debate, the thread is
*usually ignored.

Really?  Usually you're much more persistant.  Or do you just save your 
strength for hopeless causes so you can complain about being persecuted?

Someone else was kind enough to elaborate:  I thought on it and answered.
Who knows, maybe this thread will run for a while.

*--
*Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
*NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
*Centennial Campus


***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: A fishy story
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:42:29 GMT

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>The herring replied, "I really don't know where he is.  After all I am not
>my blubber's kipper."

*graon* tee hee.
*awful* puns urg.

Yom Kippur is what, again?
(savage teasing) what is the observance of deliverance from double-digit
inflation?
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boycotting Eric.
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:02 GMT
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Oct14.131631.4364@walter.cray.com>, sonic@cray.com
(Curtis L. Swanson) writes:

>Eric,
>it seems to me that you equate 'not voting' with 'doing something else.'

No, see my article entitled "Voting Analysis".

>What a lot of people were saying back to you and the original poster was 
>that 'not voting,' in and of itself, does nothing worthwhile.  You responded
>saying that you can do many things other than vote which are worthwhile, 
>which is totally correct and beside the original point.

No, the point of saying you can do many things other than vote is not to
prove that not voting is worthwhile but to disprove the argument that
one should vote because otherwise one cannot control government.  Having
disproved that, I stand by my analysis that shows for some people, it
sometimes is a better choice not to vote.

>However, while not voting does send a message, you cannot assume that it is
>the message you detailed above.  I may have not voted because:
>
>I forgot.
>I had an emergency.
>I got sick.
>I had an accident and was unable to get to the voting booth.
>Etc, etc.
>
>Without me saying why I did not vote, nobody worth voting for could assume
>any message from me.  They could only wonder.

It is not true that they could only wonder.  I can demonstrate how a
signal can be transmitted even in the presence of noise, even when noise
outnumbers the signal by any finite ratio you care to name.

>What is the point about X not having the 'authority' to govern you but
>has the 
>power to regardless?  You have said 'ethics' is the point.  But, if we
>had
>a government that actually only governed those people that voted for it
>(down
>to "the laws passed by this senator only applies to people who voted
>for him"),
>the USA would disintigrate much more quickly than if everybody (and I
>mean
>everybody) stopped voting.  In light of this, it would be unethical for
>X to
>not govern you because the alternative is anarchy.

Anarchy has two meanings; one is chaos, the other is lack of government.
The lack of government is not necessarily a lack of order.  In any case,
some people's ethics are such that they believe it is unethical to do
harm but ethical to allow harm to come to others.  Your argument above
would not be acceptable to them; the ethical choice for them would be
not to vote.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@alien.enet.dec.com
From: fisher@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Filling in time near LA.
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:31:20 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

I have 3 days and nights to fill in between the end of the Inland Empire 
RG on Sunday October 25 and my flight from LAX on Wed October 28 on my 
way to the International Gathering, IBD and IGC.

Any ideas? They will have to be low budget as they will be at my own 
expense, (unless possibly they involve visiting University or similar
computing services in which case my employer might pay). 

Bill Fisher
Chairman, Australian Mensa.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:17:06 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct11.172856.20221@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com
(Michael J. Eager) wrote:
> 
> In article 061092110654@192.35.50.131, mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct6.025547.28868@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A
> >Tai) wrote:
> >

> Now that we have got that out of the way, how about you two posting things which
> have some substance, rather than this silly squable.

I'd be glad to, if he were capable of doing so.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t// Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:04:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.165224.18516@walter.cray.com> sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
>{Bogus name} from {bogus address} writes:
>
>*sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
>*|> I have much better things to concern myself with.  You know, the thing 
>*|> you said you had a few months ago but have apparently lost?
>*
>*Which is?  Dissertation?  Virginity?  Help me out here... :)
>
>A life.  Your virginity is your own problem.  Or virtue.  Or feature.  Or
>whatever.  Anyway, it's yours.
>
>*|> Interesting.  You keep saying that you enjoy intelligent debate but I have
>*|> yet to see anything more than proposals and theories from you. No rebuttals,
>*|> nada.  Although, I will admit your last question about the "separate but 
>*|> equal" is intriguing.  Could you elaborate?
>*
>*No--every time I try to initiate intelligent debate, the thread is
>*usually ignored.
>
>Really?  Usually you're much more persistant.  Or do you just save your 
>strength for hopeless causes so you can complain about being persecuted?

Curt, you're ignoring the possible cases of schizophrenia, multiple
personalities and a severed corpus callosum.  In this case, the origination
of the request for intelligent debate and the ignoring of such might
be between the multiple personalities or the different sides of the
brain.  I can only speculate as to the pain involved in this, but it
sure would be nutty to watch.

GMS
From: yaros@sab57.larc.nasa.gov (Steve Yaros)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: RG Blurb
Date: 15 Oct 1992 12:16:20 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sab57.larc.nasa.gov

I need a little guidance here.  Tidewater Mensa is putting on an RG in February
1992.  Would it be in bad form or against rec.org.mensa policy to put in a 
publicity blurb about it now and then?

Steve Yaros

-- 
                           |                                                   
    Steve from Norfolk     | ...be aware that a walk through the river of most           
 yaros@sab57.nasa.larc.gov | people's souls would scarcely get your feet wet...
      804-864-3050         |                                  Deteriorata 1977
___________________________|____________________________________________________
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Summarizing the boycott (was Re: Boycotting the Vote)
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:56:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct14.140515.26234@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.205502.26065@walter.cray.com>, sonic@cray.com
>(Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
>
>>EP>I don't recall any such original claim; can you quote it for me?  I
>>EP>don't think you can, because I don't think it was made.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I can't draw the post back up but you made the comment that
>>most people didn't vote, the system would "fall down around its ears."
>
>I made no such comment, and I request that you stop attributing phrases
>or statements to me that I did not make.  I might have seen that phrase,
>but somebody else wrote it -- quite possibly while also incorrectly
>describing my position.

Eric is right, here.  Here is the original post.  The claim it
reported (note that the original poster didn't seem to originate the
claim, nor did they seem to strongly support it) was attacked and
discredited several times.  Eric, however, defended the position,
later added the supporting idea of alternative political actions,
but then recanted and returned to the original position.  So Eric
never actually made the statement himself.

(Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:
>
>I just heard someone campaigning for people to boycott the vote
>in order to show people in government that we don't support them.
>He argues that this is the most effective way to "fix" this 
>country (USA, I'm sorry for my *centrism), because the government 
>will eventually come crashing down around their ears.
>
>Does anyone care to explain by what sort of logic this would work?


GMS
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Local Mensa Elections
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:34:59 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants


   Just curious....

   Out of the local Mensa groups that have had elections lately,
   how many of the offices have seen constested?
==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Perot and trust
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:01:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: galileo.1992Oct12.210123.8724
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Actually, I think it's simply the herd instinct.  People would vote for
Perot if other people were voting for him and they knew it.  If they feel
alone, or that they are on the losing side, people will tend not to vote for
Perot.
	Mind you, this is the average voter we are discussing.  The
*intelligent* voter will vote for Clinton. :)

--Andrew D. Simchik
DISCLAIMER: The usual stuff.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:49:34 CDT

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Mensa Membership
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:19:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.121814.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:
>I am a second year medical student, and was vaguely interested in joining 
>mensa. After reading the writings of some of your members, I think not.

Shame.

"I hear there are some people in France that have committed crimes, so
I don't think I'll go there."

Hope you modify your approach before you graduate.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Subject: Re: Is this line thing silly?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:50:38 GMT

>In article <1992Oct6.133149.2442@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:

>}Lemme draw a line:
>}<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
>} [. . .]

hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>Yes.  For your penance you are required to sit up all night and
>contemplate the meaning of "infinity" and "infinitesimal." Then consider
>whether a 1 dimensional object occupies space in a 3 dimensional universe.
>There will be a quiz tomorrow.  Be prepared to discuss the subject and
>relate it to the dimensionality of a usenet flame thread. (-:{

Hey. . .No smilies allowed on this topic -- I have an exam Friday!

And *believe* me, I'm *not* smiling...

-sz  (Dives back into Grunbaum, Russell, St. Augustine, McTaggart. . .)
   ((You hear a tortured, muffled scream from somewhere in Indiana. . .))
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross)
Subject: Re: Perot and trust
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:28:22 GMT

In article <J2O2WAZMT@linac.fnal.gov> crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:

>Since even presidents who say they won't raise taxes, do, we can take
>the higher taxes as a given.  So?  Sure, nobody likes their money
>taken away, but taxes have been higher than they are now, and we
>didn't all die of it.  Many other fine countries have higher taxes,
>so I won't conclude that higher taxes mean ruin.

What I'm saying is that with a Demo president *and* a Demo Congress plus the
fact that Democrats do tend to sponsor bills with more new spending than the
Republicans (source:  National Taxpayers Union - cost of bills sponsored by
each member of the 102nd Congress); I'd say that under Clinton we are in for
far more tax increases then "King George" is likely to do (though he'll
probably raise 'em too).  A big one from Clinton is his health care "solution"
which last I heard called for a 7.5% payroll tax with employers required to
match it (about the same as *doubling* social security - another disaster
waiting to happen)

>	Average change in GNP in each 4 year Democratic presidential
>	term since 1948: plus 20 percent.

Two points on this:  First the economy was *a lot* better off in 1948 with
taxes, interest rates, and inflation considerably lower than today.  Plus
there was not much of a deficit then either (maybe none - I'm not sure when
we started racking up all this debt though I'd guess the war probably caused
some).  And second, you didn't say whether the figure of 20% accounted for
inflation.

>	Average change in GNP in each 4 year Republican presidential
>	term since 1948: minus 5 percent.

Most Republican administrations since then have been recently during a period
of high taxes, high interest rates, and so on.  I don't think these statistics
demonstrate anything since other variables were at work.  Keep in mind that
drawing valid conclusions from statistics like this is a science unto itself.
-- 

Gordon Cross          UUCP:     uunet!ingr!infonode!crossgl   "all opinions are
111 Westminister Way  INTERNET: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com    mine and not those
Madison, AL 35758     MA BELL:  (205) 730-7842               of my employer."
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: homophobe
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:14:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <01GPP6K6G46U94DO55@ccfvx3.draper.com> seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
>Rodney Adams quotes...       
>
>>Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary:
>>"homophobe: one who hates or fears homosexuals"

Just wanted to note that the "or" need not be an "inclusive or".

Further, if those people that consider one person or another to
be homophobic, then they should start the charitable work of
providing some kind of aversion therapy or something, and provide
excessive exposure to homosexuals.  That is, if they are truly
charitable, loving, caring, altruistic human beings.

>
>I never liked the word "homophobe".  (Or should I say 'I never liked the
>word "homophobe."'?)  "Homophobia" as well.

Ah.  A "homophobe"phobe!  Now, if these people that consider one person
or another to be "homophobe"phobic, then they should start the charitable
work of providing some kind of aversion therapy or something, and
provide excessive exposure to homophobes.


GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Part of a reply to Rodney - more later re: the dark side
Keywords: way long
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:17:20 GMT

dobbs@ast.saic.com (Lynn Dobbs) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>reflect neither spiritual reality, nor human reality

>OXYMORON ALERT ---
>    ... spiritual reality ....

:) in advance, okay?

yeah - it's left to those who perceive it, to make it known to others.
i.e. who understands why it is not an oxymoron, understands.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Def. of Intellegence
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:10:41 GMT

>What is intellegence??

Beats me.  Do you mean "Intelegance," the aesthetic qualities of 
microprocessors found in IBM-compatibles?       
.

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa