From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.sex,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Falling in Love
Date: 3 Nov 92 11:01:30 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <lf0h50INNo7t@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
>In article <Oct29.052543.26087@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) writes:
>>>In article <lero7jINN42v@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>>>    My insight is that _the_physical_and_emotional_sensations_associated_
>>>>_with_falling_in_love_are_indistinguishable_from_those_of_ecstatic_
>>>>_religions_experience_.  
>>
>>This, in and of itself, is interesting.  "Dances with Drum's law."  It may
>>be fallacious (Er, wrong) but it still offers interesting insight.
>---
>	Actually it is not my law, but the quoted article's author.  But as
>to whether or not it is wrong: Have you ever had an ecstatic religious
>experience?  One where you are out of, or not conscious of your body
>(strict definition of ecstatic).  If you haven't, I don't believe you
>could call it wrong.
--------------------------
In my two experiences of undeserved (totally) "grace", the experience
was not that of not being conscious of my body, but of living
completely in it with complete acceptance and relaxation. It was the
most pleasant thing I ever experienced. I had it once from 
most pleasant thing I ever experienced. I had it once from prayer,
though I don't know how to say what or whom I was praying to, and I
had it once from vigorous shikan taza or mind emptying for many hours.
Both experiences each lasted nearly a day. It was as though everything
was unfolding precisely as it should. An ecstatic religious experience
as you describe sounds more like some kind of hebephrenia than
revelation. No offense.
- Steve

>>>>    We are coded to love, honor and worship the Lady.  Unable to do so
>>>>openly for myriad reasons, we find the Lady and Lord in other human
>>>>beings.  When we worship Them there, we have an ecstatic religions
>>>>experience: we fall in love.
>>
>>This, however, strikes me as being at least a little silly.  In my family
>>nobody worships anybody.  Love is an egalitarian thing, sprung from genuine
>>tender-heartedness for the other.
>---
>	This is a mistake I see several people making who read this string.
>I don't feel the author is saying he is worshipping his lovers in the
>groveling sense that most people think of when they use the word worship.
>What he is saying -- if you accept his 'insight' as listed above, is that
>the feeling of 'falling in love' is the worship feeling we would feel toward
>the Lady/Lord if we could freely experience that.  Since ecstatic 
>worship has been replaced in this culture by groveling worship, we,
>use the ecstatic worship (the falling in love feeling) directed at other
>human beings.
>-wat-
---------------------------
I can understand cherishing. I that sufficient for you? That's all
well and good, except in the kensho I experienced, one cherishes the
entirety of things and beings. There are no exceptions. Acid also
points this way. (Poorly, compared to kensho, by far.)
- Steve


-- 
* Richard STEVEn Walz   rstevew@deeptht.armory.com   (408) 429-1200  *
* 515 Maple Street #1   * Without safe and free abortion women are   *
* Santa Cruz, CA 95060    organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.*   *
* Real Men would never accept organ-slavery and will protect Women.  *
From: Elise@p19.f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Elise)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com