HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: santafe@watnxt10.ucr.edu (michael a parisi)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: NJ Transit : Projects and a request
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:06:11 GMT




NJ Transit is not at all responsive when I write to them for information
about their commuter rail system.  I understand that they have a 
number of planned projects such as the "Reverse Kearny Connection"
which will enable trains from the former DL&W lines to connect
with the NEC and travel directly to Penn Station in NYC.  Also:
       -Extension of the Boonton Line to Hackettstown
       -A Secaucus transfer station.  This will allow riders
        of the Main/Bergen Co. and Pascack Valley lines to transfer
        to NEC trains.
       -Restoration of service on the West Shore Line (is this a
        former NYCRR route?)
       -Abandonment of the Boonton Line between Hoboken and Montclair.
        However, a connection to the Boonton Line will be built from
        the Montclair Branch line.
Can someone tell me what else is being planned?

Now, the request.
I would like to get some of the updated NJT timetables and ask that
someone "out there" please send them to me.  Right now, the ones I
want are: North Jersey Coast Line
          Raritan Valley Line
          Northeast Corridor Line
I would be happy to respond to the "first few" responders with
whatever Metrolink materials I can get my hands on in the near future.

                                 Thanks much,

                                  Mike Parisi
                                  4109 Haverford Ave.
                                  Riverside, CA  92507
 

P.S.-If you're wondering why someone in Riverside is so damn 
     interested in what's going on with the trains in Jersey,
     it's because I grew up there riding them (Gladstone Branch
     of the Morris & Essex Lines).
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Swanton Pacific
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:31:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <9210150111.AA14011@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>I stumbled onto this event by coincidence as I rode my bicycle to
>Santa Cruz last Sunday 11 Oct.  I was disappointed not to hear,
>either before the fact, or a report afterwards, of the benefit
>Bar-B-Q at the Swanton Pacific RR in Swanton just north of Davenport

 I just joined the Golden Gate RR Museum (formerly the 2472 Project I
believe) a two months ago and I got a notice in the mail about this
event, the GGRM Family and Friends Picnic. Looking at the flyer, it
looks like members of the R&LHS and the PLA also recieved copies. The
even was open to non-members, but judging by the croud, I don't think it
could have handled too many more people. As I understand it, this is a
yearly event. So... why not join up and come along next year? 

>(Santa Cruz Co).  The centerpiece of course was not present because
>standard gauge tracks haven't graced this location in 70 years or so
>but former SP 2472 was to be seen in photos, paintings, T-shirts and
>models a-plenty.  Meanwhile at the new authentic Victorian style train
>station steamers 1912 and 1913, perfect 19" gauge replicas of 2472,
>a P10 pacific, showed their stuff as they rolled off under the two
>immaculately maintained former SP semaphores, a double and single one.

 The "replicas" were actually 12 ton steam locomotives scaled down in
every detail (except cab size) from the real thing. But I use the quotes
around replicas because these engines were built to power, if you'd call
it, the people movers at the 1915 Panama-Pacific Exposition in San
Francisco. Though one of the locomotives does have 2472-like fittings.
 They really are somethig else though. Besides the fact that the steam
dome is just above eye level, you'd swear that these were fullsized
pacifics with 72 inch drivers. The cab is a little crampt though, the
are run with a full sized engineer and fireman. 



   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs         zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 06:22:31 GMT

In article <385@ccscola.Columbia> kwyatt@ccscola.Columbia (Kershner Wyatt) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.170505.2398@athena.mit.edu> sathomas@athena.mit.edu (Stephen A Thomas) writes:
>>It seems the posting has gotten away from the subject, but I'm glad to talk about
>>GG1's!  It's hard to believe that people don't know that they aren't working
>
>As the guilty ignorant fool who didn't know they weren't running anymore, I 
>guess I need to apologize to Steve.  Allow me to explain a little more.  I

From what I read above, I think he was making a comment on their huge
popularity in the United States.  You might be taking that comment a
bit too hard...

>lived outside of the US for a number of years, I didn't have a subscription
>to any of the "Trains" type mags and I haven't lived near the Pennsy since 
>1976.  What irritates me about the way the posting started off was the fact
>that I asked a simple question when the GG1 thread started up.  I got several
>very curtious responses with dates and other info for which I am grateful.
>Now I do model on and off, and I do hit museums, and with a CSX line in my
>backyard, I definitely get to see trains running.

I though I was the one who asked the stupid question first <g> but anyway
this brings up another comment about Trains magazine, the (what I believe)
to be a lack of Northeast corridor coverage.  Anyone else feel this way?

>I fully admit to not knowing this model or that model locomotive, and somehow,
>I survive.  So I guess that years of watching trains and not knowing everything
>about them makes me stupid.  No, I  didn't know the GG1s were retired.  That is
>why I read this group -- so I can learn.  I'm real glad that I wasn't just
>getting into this group because remarks/comments like that - intentional or
>unintentional - can turn off a new railfan.

Don't worry, with living deep in the heart of N&W or Southern land,
From: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tramway/trolley gauges
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:33:38 GMT
Reply-To: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (Mike Bremner)
Organization: Institute of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Kent

In article <1992Oct13.161431.7462@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
>>                                                           . . . grooved
>>   rails and a gauge of 4ft. 7 3/4in., this being chosen so that ordinary
>>   railway wagons and carriages could use it.  Though there is no
>>   evidence that in fact they did so ...

>But this doesn't make sense, . . .

This would have been my reaction, were it not for the caption to the
photo of a locomotive in Glasgow that I also referred to in my article.
This includes the words "to enable railway rolling stock to run on the
flanges of their wheels".

>                       . . . unless . . . (b) the wheels are riding on
>the tracks in a nonstandard way.

I guess (b) is the explanation: if the railway flange is deeper than the
tramway groove the flange-to-flange distance at tramway rail level (part
of the way down the flange) will be less than 4ft. 8 1/2in.  I don't,
however, have any dimensions available which would enable me to put
this hypothesis to the test.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tramway/trolley gauges
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:35:12 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <35867@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> In article <1992Oct13.192207.25309@bcrka451.bnr.ca> dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams) writes:
> > In article <1992Oct13.161431.7462@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
...
> > b) is correct. The grooves in a tramway rail are so shallow that the tire of
> >    a railway wheel does not ride on the surface of the rail; instead, the
> >    flange of the wheel rides in the bottom of the groove.
> 
> I don't think this is really standard in street-railway practice, at least not
> in the US.  the "girder rail" looks like what you describe, however the wheels
> still rides on the surface of the rail and the extension on the other side of
> the flange simply provides for a closed flangeway that doesn't spread to trap
> carriage wheels or ladies heels, nor close up when paving blocks/bricks shift.

Oops, on reading another followup, I realized you were making a distinction
between normal railway equipment running on the tramway rail and not asserting
that the trams ran on their flanges.

I don't know if the flange-way size differed as much as you suggest in modern
U.S. practice.  There is/was plenty of dock and industrial railway trackage
that also used (at least from top-view) the same sort of girder rail used for
street-railways, but with normal railcars, I haven't had occasion to compare
the flangeway depth.
-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Organization: LLNL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:34:56 GMT

In article <oeoas1i00WBLM8uMRq@andrew.cmu.edu> Alan Edward Petrillo <ap2z+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>"Did you know that the almighty created the LIRR?"

>"Really?"

>"Sure, the Bible says He created all things that creepeth and crawleth."

>-as quoted in Ron Ziel and George Foster's "Steel Rails to the Sunrise."

>This joke is from the early 50's, when the LIRR suffered a succession of
>accidents and a general deterioration of service.

	I wonder what shape the LIRR is in now. I presume that it has
improved at least somewhat since then. I've seen news in a railfan
magazine that the electrification on the Ronkonkoma line has been
extended out to Rkk itself (or something like that), even though Rkk
is not at the end of the Rkk line. This, and the opening of a tunnel
to Penn Station, would suggest some kind of commitment to improving
LIRR service.
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: Railwork in Cupertino
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:31:58 GMT

In article <8103@public.BTR.COM>, rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:
|> There is some kind of spur? line running along the west side of Bubb Rd
|> in Cupertino and by the 85/280 junction.  It appears to be undergoing
|> extensive renovation.  They (SP?) have replaced every 10th tie or so
|> along the tracks, dumped a lot of new ballast, tamped it down, and
|> straightened the tracks (which were badly out of true).

I believe SP is just using the work they've had to do on this line
for the 85 freeway work as an excuse to do some general maintenance.
You might as well, if you've got the work crews and equipment out
there anyway, right?

|> coal (coal?  who uses that much coal in the bay area?)

Kaiser Permanente Cement Plant.  As far as I know, they're the only
active customer on this line.  I believe it's known as the Permanente
line or branch at SP.  There used to be tracks running from the
California Avenue CalTrain station in Palo Alto to connect with
this line in Cupertino.  It ran across El Camino and went along
Foothill Expressway.  I believe the train station still exists
as some kind of business in Los Altos.  At Vasona Junction there
was a line that went through downtown Los Gatos and up and over
the Santa Cruz Mountains to Santa Cruz.  The Felton to Santa
Cruz part of the line still exists and now carries excursion
trains that take you to the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk from Felton.

Santa Clara County plans to buy the SP line from San Jose Cahill
CalTrain/Amtrak station to Vasona Junction near the Los Gatos/
Campbell border for a light rail line.  SP railroad would still
retain the right to run freights to the Kaiser Permanente Cement
plant along the future light rail line, only they'll have to
operate late at night after light rail operations have stopped
for the day.  The light rail line (as well as tons of other Santa
Clara County light and heavy passenger rail projects) depend on
passage of Santa Clara County Measure A this Novemeber. 

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:31:28 GMT
Reply-To: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (Mike Bremner)
Organization: Institute of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Kent

In article <Bvuw6p.FB8@csc.liv.ac.uk> mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk (Martin Beer) writes:

>TML (the contractors) certainly have Class 20s either on loan or bought from BR
>(I am not sure which).  They are being used on the UK side for 
>moving trains of rails etc. around at Folkstone, where they can be
>seen from the Information Centre (and the Motorway alongside).
>
>I have not seen them on the French side, so cannot comment
>on what is happening there.

I think I read that some are also being shipped to the French side.
When I was at Cheriton about a month ago I saw one on a low-loader
heading in the direction of Dover (and hence, presumably, to France).

>Tunneling has been complete for some time, so I hope that there is no
>more chalk to remove.  My understanding was that all spoil removal
>was undertaken using the narrow gauge contractors' railway, which was then
>demolished to provide the foundations for the standard gauge railway lines,
>which are now being laid.

When I last visited the Shakespeare Cliff site (about two months ago)
there were still two (of the original five) rack-equipped tracks leading
down the adit.  But, unless there's track in the service tunnel still,
they can't be much use now.  Some of the standard gauge TML wagons that
were used for delivery of lining segments and other materials were being
used by BR in a "dig-it-up-and-start-again" relaying operation at
Faversham two weekends ago.

>By the way, according to the latest Modern Railways, the Class 92 freight locos
>are now 15-18 months behind schedule (but not contractually late!?!).

As a result of which French Bo-Bo locomotives are being prepared for
freight service through the tunnel.

I can't remember if anyone mentioned it, but opening is now "fixed" for
a date in December 1993.
From: hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Info on North Pacific Coast RR
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:25:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

I'm looking for any information/sources that cover the North Pacific Coast RR.
Specifically, I'm interested in the portion that was next to Tomales Bay, but
any info would be appreciated.  I'm interested in finding out when this 
trackage was abandoned, if it was ever standard guage, and anything else that
might be of interest.  Much of the right of way is still visible, along 
with the remains of a steel bridge and at least one tunnel.

thanks,

Rich Hill
From: jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: NYC color-coding, again
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:35:12 GMT
Organization: Bear, Stearns & Co. - FAST
In-reply-to: jordan@IMSI.COM's message of 5 Oct 92 16:47:12 GMT


In article <5247@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:

   Imagine.  It's 105 in the shade, 98% humidity.  You enter the station
   and descend four flights of stairs to the platform.  The walls seem to
   drip...
                                                   ...It takes forever for
   the garbage to be loaded onto the flatbed car.  Diesel fumes add to the
   clogging, choking.  The noise is unbearable in the enclosed space.  You
   want to die.

Jordan, you seem to have described the mid-summer late-nite subway
experience more effectively that anyone ever has before.  By the
time I finished reading your post I had to take a shower... :-) :-)

Spidey!!!

--
 /\ \  / /\  Josh Diamond                                          jmd@bear.com
//\\ .. //\\ AKA Spidey!!!                        ...!ctr.columbia.edu!ursa!jmd
//\((  ))/\\
/  < `' >  \                                              Do whatever it takes.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:19:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.233132.27383@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>	I have seen it claimed that electric locomotives usually need
>much less maintenance than diesel ones. Is there any truth to that
>claim?

Yes.

>
>	This would presumably come about from the much lower
>mechanical complexity of electric locos as compared to diesel ones (no
>diesel engine, see?).

Exactly.

>	I think that it is a significant issue in evaluating the
>merits of electric (flat-road) cars, since one of their (purported)
>merits is low maintenance costs, for the reasons presented above, and
>also because they would be competing with cars running on internal
>combustion engines, as electric locos compete with diesel locos in
>similar types of service.

However electric powered locomotives have a better time of it.  Remember,
a electric car is a self contained unit, it needs to bring along some
sort of power to run the motors.  A electric locomotive however has
plenty of power brought to it.  And, you do need to add into the equation
all the maintenance of power lines ect that make that system work.
For the most part, electric automobiles don't have problems with motors,
the only major obstacle is getting the power systems to be easy, self
contained, and not expensive/caustic/and a high-maintenance.
From: jt3y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Paul Togyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Jim Edmonston
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:21:50 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Is Jim Edmonston (sp?) still in the land of the living?  He used to
write "Trackside in the Diesel Age" for RAILROAD MAGAZINE.  Is he still
writing?  Is he reading this, perhaps? 8)

Just curious!  Thank you in advance!
--Jason Togyer
     Carnegie Tech
     Pittsburgh, Penn.

**"The moral of the story is: don't count your boobies before they've hatched."
       --James Thurber
            _The _Unicorn_in_the_Garden_
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Water scoops
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:10:43 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

WATER SCOOPS

Being a transplanted Westerner, I never had the chance
to see the water scoops in action, so I will leave 
comment to more knowledgable folks.  However, at least
one engine at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, a
PRR K-4 if I remember correctly, still has its scoop
intact.  They have a number of other Pennsy engines,
but we got there near closing on our last visit, so I
didn't have time to check for others.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:19:45 GMT

msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
>The usual construction is cut-and-cover....
> [other details deleted]
>
>Yonge-University-Spadina line:
>
>	From Finch to Osgoode, all stations are underground, or underground
>		directly under the main street where the line is so aligned,
>		except as noted below.  Of special note is North York Centre
>		station which was built after the line was opened.  The line
>		is underground initially, then...
>	[some of the specifics deleted]
>	(Eglinton) to (St. Clair), surface in open cutting,
>		including Davisville station

Just south of Davisville, it goes underground to St. Clair.


>	(Museum) to (Spadina), underground

While most of this was the cut-and-cover method of construction, there is
a 162' test section of tunnel using the Icos-Veder method of construction.
Also known as the "Milan" method (developed guess where), it avoids the
need to drive piles and use streed decking as well as wall and roof forms.

Briefly, this method involves digging trenches where the walls would
go, then fill them with concrete (with rebar).  Then the soil between
them would be excavated down to the level of the roof.  The concrete
for the roof would be poured directly on the soil, then the tunnel
would be completed by mining the earth from between the walls below
the roof.

Structure wise, this method compares with cut-and-cover.
Disturbance wise, it "shakes" up the neibourhood less.
Cost wise, it is more expensive.
Appearance wise, it makes for a rougher looking tunnel wall.

>	(Castle Frank) to (Broadview), elevated on lower deck of road
>		bridge over park, river, railways, expressway

It should be noted that the Prince Edward Viaduct was constructed in
1917 and provision for the lower deck was built at that time.  Not a
bad forecast, especially since as late as the 1940's city planners
were still considering the possibility of an east-west subway line
along Queen street instead of Bloor!  

Compare this with the North York Centre station: when
the line was built in the early seventies (actually 1968-1974), it
was suggested that a station where the North York Centre station is
should be "roughed in" for later completion.  They decided not to,
and we paid for it dearly when it was actually built.

Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
From: DLEIBOLD@vm1.yorku.ca
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: GO, TTC notes
Date: 12 Oct 1992 21:24:25 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Transit Issues Discussion List <TRANSIT%GITVM1.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

The Toronto-area GO commuter operation will lend four of its bi-level
passenger train cars to Florida for use there following the hurricane
Andrew disaster. The Toronto Star didn't say whether this was specifically
for Tri-Rail, or how rail service in Florida fared after the storm,
but did mention up to 12 cars could go down to Florida. Cost was to be
$300/day/car, though it was unclear whether GO was donating them outright
without rental, or whether that rental charge would still be applied.

In other Toronto-area news, TTC will be cutting back hours on information
services, namely its main voice info line at (416) 393.4636 effective
13 October... new hours will be 7 am - 10 pm. Old hours were 7 am (6:30?)
to 11:30 pm. There was a new information number established for touch-tone
selected automated inquiries, but this gives out only basic information
at this point, or seems to offer call forwarding to certain departments
on certain items.

A roving TTC patron also found out that the souvenir/info booth at the
Bloor/Yonge station was to be shut down, and all such stuff consolidated
at the TTC store in the main TTC office centre at Davisville station
to the north.

dleibold@vm1.yorku.ca

Newsgroups: rec.railroad