HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 9 Nov 1992 00:39:43 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1dkageINNgss@gap.caltech.edu>, kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes:
>(By the way, my own experience has been that Christianity is used to mean
>that which all Christians believe, and not what individual Christians
>believe.  "Custom and usage" must have been different in my neck of the
>woods than it was in yours.)

Er, aren't you getting a bit circular here.  Near as I can tell, your
definitions are now:
	Christian:  Someone who subscribes to Christianity
	Christianity:  What Christians believe
Also, I've been arguing that Christianity is what the Christian Churches have
said it was.  If you belong to a Christian church then you are, by definition,
and according to hundreds of years of custom and usage, a Christian.  And
finally, I strongly suspect that if we tried to use your definition and took
the intersection of all beliefs held by all Christians, we'd end up with the
null set.

>P.S. We've lost track of the original argument, i.e. whether or not
>Christianity can be judged on the basis of its followers' actions.
>I think that one deserves more thought.  Let's get back to it.

If it can't be judged based on that, then on what can it possibly be judged?
How can it possibly be distinguished from a philosophy that simply says
"Everybody should be happy"?

What I'm saying is that you need to use an OPERATIONAL definition of
Christianity, not some bogus mystical definition that is unlikely to mean the
same thing to any two different people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: Rick.Moen@f207.n914.z8.rbbs-net.ORG (Rick Moen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: A gender neutral prono
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:10:01 GMT

In article <Bx5sH7.A6r@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu
(Tim Pierce) wrote as follows:
 
> In article <N8ZNTB2w165w@cerianthus.pinetree.org>
> cowan@cerianthus.pinetree.org (Darin Cowan - root) writes:
> 
>>What we need is for people to wake up and not read insults into
>>language where none is intended.
> 
> That no insult is consciously intended does not mean that none is
> present.
 
I prefer the solution of being mildly insulting to everyone, 
particularly the theatrically hypersensitive.  It helps prepare them to 
face reality, some day.  No charge.
 
Cheers,
Rick M.
moen@blyth.com

 * Origin: The Skeptic's Board in San Mateo - Bay Area Skeptics (8:914/207)
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Audis (was Re: Repressed Memories, Ruined Lives)
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:37:04 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

My understanding on this is that the driver of the car got a lawyer
that was so slick that he was able to convince a jury that his
client was not at fault but that the auto manufacturer was.
The way I heard it the only folks that didn't know the truth 
were the ignorant jury. The idea was not to establish truth, but
to transfer liability from the defendant to the corporation.
-- 
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:31:04 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov11.185551.24053@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>, kraus@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dave Kraus) writes:
=Christianity is not in conflict with human nature. It is human nature to
 --------------------------------------------------
=interpret just about everything in many different ways. 
=
=Sure, "YOU CAN'T EVALUATE THE PHILOSOPHY WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE EFFECTS
=IT HAS ON ITS FOLLOWERS.", but saying that the ideas of love that Jesus
=put forth are somehow responsible for the state of the Christian Church 
=(Jimmy Swaggert, Oral Roberts, whatever) is a bit farfetched. There are many
=other factors involved, like greed, which is un-Christian.
                         ----------------------------------

Thank you for demonstrating my point.  Even in the process of trying to claim
that Christianity isn't in conflict with human nature, you bring in a claim
that it IS in such a conflict.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: 2 vs 14, P vs J, etc. [was: Would "Noah's Ark" have been large enough?]
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:07 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>Why is it that all biblical scholars, i.e., those with formal
>training, those who speak Hebrew and Greek, etc, support the JEPD
>theory of biblical authorship; while it is the fundementalists who
>don't?  Don't these fundies ever feel like they're pissing into the
>wind? 

I don't think Joe Slater (i.e. the person arguing against the Documentary
Hypothesis in this thread) has yet betrayed himself as particularly
"fundamentalist" (on the other hand this is the only experience I've had of
him, so I can't speak more generally).  So far he seems to be actually, if
somewhat abrasively, asking for information and evidence --which I hope to
supply when I get a little more time to type.

However, what I _do_ object to is the line of argument that Mr Slater seems
to have put forth.  We've seen this sort of thing many times before:

 o Model X is a view/model/opinion held by the majority of the experts in
   a given field.

 o I (a person with no knowledge of the field and who am demonstrably
   ignorant of the most basic data involved) am confused by something
   in this line of arguement.

 o Therefore: Since it certainly is not possible that _my_ understanding
   is flawed in any way, the Model X must be a pile of crap.

Mr Slater is not the first --and far from the worst-- source of this
particular line of "reasoning".  It is, nonetheless, somewhat irritating.

N
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 14:25:07 EST
From: <IK10015@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: sci.research
Subject: New info. on Dyslexia needed.

Hi,
Here at the University of Maine-Fort Kent, Resources
on the topic Dyslexia are old and very-much outdated.
(like all the books at this university) but,that's
besides the point. does any body have new info on the topic
of dyslexia they would like to send or share for a reasonable
fee ?  please send  *any * responses Via E-mail. I am
willing to pay for postage and handling that may
occur during shipping.
Thanx
-M
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Keywords: Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be scientists...
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:12:36 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <Nov.7.18.40.58.1992.1926@cadenza.rutgers.edu> masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:
> [description of real life work by author:]
>Windowless cubicles, vindictive bosses, phony deadlines, stupid rules
>and games of Mother-may-I with petty bureaucrats, rush hours both
>ways, congenitally stupid management suits generating pressure,
>incompetent CEO's kids demanding Pablum, lies, confusion, quality
>assurance Gestapos, corporate Quislings, and co-workers whose
>intellect stops at Monday Night Sportsball and who just don't give a
>shit about their work. And sweating for years on projects that come to
>nothing, not through any fault of your own, but because the suits
>don't think they're fun anymore, or because someone else 3000 miles
>away screws up, or because the economy goes sour, or because it was
>some manager's pet project that never gets used. If you like all that,
>it's yours.

I guess spending years and years of "research" and lots of taxpayer
dollars in an equally windowless office, playing office politics, 
publish-or-perish, bring-money-to-the-school-or-perish, let's-do-real-
work-for-real-money-in-the-summertime-or-even-during-class-and-who-
gives-a-shit-for-these-dumb-undergrads is acceptable?

Spiros (industry or bust :-))
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere)
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:19:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.051049.18680@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> abbasi@star.enet.dec.com (My name is Nasser Abbasi) writes:
>
>[ ... deleted discussion on which is worse to get, a PhD in physics
>or CS, as far as getting work with the PhD is concerned...]
>
>
>I think one should get a PhD in an area that they really like, and
>not pay attention to the job market too much.

Excellent advice for the financially independent!


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
                                                                     
  Steven Vere                   Cold War Surplus Computer Scientist
  Boulder Creek, California                         vere@netcom.com  
     * Artificial Intelligence Research and Seasoned Firewood *
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
_____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman)
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:33:01 MST
Keywords: Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be scientists...
Organization: University of Utah, CompSci Dept

>I got a piece of mail from the computer science department of an Ivy
>League school the other day. The writer dropped a hint that there were
>400 applications for one Assistant Professor position. (Name of the
>school withheld to protect the sender.)
>
>At last count there are, perhaps, twenty or thirty open positions in
>the US and Canada at that level. Ergo, at least a 1000% oversupply.
>
>At this point, I would NOT advise anyone to get a Ph.D. in computer
>science, if they were doing it to work in academia. If you're planning
>to do it, I'd say make other plans. Unless you're a superstar, you
>probably don't have a chance.

This is not necessarily THAT bad... consider there must be at a minimum
500 graduates from CS departments with PhD's every year.  Presumably
many of these will apply for an "Ivy League" position, so one would expect
a great number of applicants for that position.

I do not know where you found out 20-30 open positions, or what type of
positions these are.  You could ALWAYS get a job at a lower tier school,
if you are willing to shift into 2 year schools. 

I don't know why anyone would want to be in academia anyway... can't you
get research positions in industry, and wouldn't they pay more and have
less pressure?  When I worked in industry it was a much better atmosphere,
although it was not a research job.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: leemike@eecg.toronto.edu (Michael Lee)
Subject: Astronomy Position Sought
Keywords: millimeter wavelength
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Distribution: sci.research.careers
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:06:56 GMT

I'm posting the following for the benefit of someone else.  Please
excuse my error if my queries are inappropriate for this group.

Does anyone have information regarding a research position or a post. doc.
position, which focuses on millimeter wavelength astronomy?  As well,
does anyone have information on the various research institutions or
universities which work in the field of millimeter wavelength astoronomy?

   Thank you,
      Michael Lee

p.s. Please send any responses to my email address leemike@eecg.toronto.edu.


 


Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Concordia
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:27:39 GMT

louns@cs.washington.edu (Michael Lounsbery) writes:

>The following was posted to our department bboard.

>                           CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY
>                      Department of Computer Science

>We are looking for a new faculty member with either strong research records or
>excellent research potential to fill a tenure track position at the Assistant 
>or

>Associate Professor rank.  Applicants must have an interest and ability to 
>teach ..

Is there a requirement for proficiency in unarmed/armed combat
and hand-to-hand fighting as well?
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: green@ie.utoronto.ca (Marc Green)
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Keywords: Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be scientists...
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:05:54 GMT

tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:

>>I got a piece of mail from the computer science department of an Ivy
>>League school the other day. The writer dropped a hint that there were
>>400 applications for one Assistant Professor position. (Name of the
>>school withheld to protect the sender.)
>>
>>At last count there are, perhaps, twenty or thirty open positions in
>>the US and Canada at that level. Ergo, at least a 1000% oversupply.
>>
>>At this point, I would NOT advise anyone to get a Ph.D. in computer
>>science, if they were doing it to work in academia. If you're planning
>>to do it, I'd say make other plans. Unless you're a superstar, you
>>probably don't have a chance.

>This is not necessarily THAT bad... consider there must be at a minimum
>500 graduates from CS departments with PhD's every year.  Presumably
>many of these will apply for an "Ivy League" position, so one would expect
>a great number of applicants for that position.

>I do not know where you found out 20-30 open positions, or what type of
>positions these are.  You could ALWAYS get a job at a lower tier school,
>if you are willing to shift into 2 year schools. 

>I don't know why anyone would want to be in academia anyway... can't you
>get research positions in industry, and wouldn't they pay more and have
>less pressure?  When I worked in industry it was a much better atmosphere,
>although it was not a research job.

Look, the whole point of getting a Ph. D. is to get to do what you want,
and that's generally research or teaching. If you wanted to go into
industry, getting a Ph. D. is a waste of time. Industry generally regards
a Ph. D. as 4 years of experience, although it usually takes 5-7 years
of work. During those 5-7 years, you are paid slave wages, gain no seniority,
no retirement benefits, accumulate no vacation time or sick time. In short,
a Ph. D. is a major financial loss. The only conceivable reason to bother
is to become a university faculty member where it is required.

As far as pressure is concerned, believe it or not, some people like to
work hard in a fast moving environment. Some people don't want a job in
a third rate university among the intellectually dead, nor do we want
to sit back and let other people make the decisions so we are under no
pressure.

Marc Green
Trent University.
A
A
A
less pressure.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: yjj@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang)
Subject: Help needed in work on patent application
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:21:55 GMT
Summary: patent, experiences
Distribution: usa
X-Posted-From: neptune.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I'm planning to file a patent and like to hear others' first hand
experiences in filing patents by themselves or through patent attorneys.
I roughly know the filing proceedure.  But I sense that there are many
tricks in the wording, drawing and text format, which only the professionals
know.  I'd like to know how do you compare filing yourself with filing
with the help of an attorney, and what issues I should be aware of.

Thanks,

Yuan
From: lseltzer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Linda Ann Seltzer)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Princeton document
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:25:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

A number of people in this newsgroup have mentioned a document from
Princeton which contains information on employment prospects for
Ph.D. graduates.  A number of us involved in committee work would
like to obtain the document here - but we don't know who wrote it.
(The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.)  Could
someone please post or send me the full citation for this document -
author, title, year - so we could find out where it came from on
our own campus.

						Thank you,
						Linda Seltzer
					lseltzer@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Academic jobs
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:13:20 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Nov9.155531.24371@mp.cs.niu.edu> rusin@mp.cs.niu.edu (David Rusin) writes:
>>	I've followed the posting on academic job prospects for CS
>>Ph.D.s.  Can I have some experts comment on same for physics (which
>>I hear is _really_ bad) and mathematics?  Interested in all levels:

>Read the Notices of the American Mathematical Society annual report on
>the state of the job market. Nov '92 issue, just out, has the latest data.
>Quote from p 1029: "... among those [1991-2 new PhD's] whose employment status
>is known [about 80%] 12.7% are unemployed."

If you think this is bad, wait till you hear the one on *statisticians*.
A close relative that shall remain anonymous (:-0) decided to pursue this
exciting field. Looking at the monthly Journal of the American Statistical
Association, one time I saw in the Obituaries that a famous Statistician
working in the Industry (world class caliber) had passed away in a car
accident. Sure enough, his employer had an ad for his job a few pages
*after* the obituary, a rather large ad I might say...

That was actually an interesting job search; in the process we found out
that there are plentiful openings for *experienced* people at the MS 
level for data analysis programming (mostly SAS contract work), but
not Ph.D. (too qualified)). 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: frenkel@stcst1.mrl.uiuc.edu (David Frenkel)
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Organization: Dept of Physics, Univ of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:15:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.151918.24760@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes:
> Nasser Abbasi writes:
>>
>>I think one should get a PhD in an area that they really like, and
>>not pay attention to the job market too much.
>
>Excellent advice for the financially independent!

   People used to go for PhD's in what they liked even during
   Great Depression, and not all were rich.
   People still go into arts, acting, music, anthropology,
   writing, and the like, because they love it -- despite
   high chances of failure.
   Some of them are financially independent, many are not.

-- 
David Frenkel                        | e-mail:   frenkel@stcst1.mrl.uiuc.edu 
Department of Physics,               | 
University of Illinois at            |
Urbana-Champaign, Urbana, IL, USA    |
From: fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Followup-To: sci.research.careers
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:17:10
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp13.bbn.com
In-reply-to: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 16:09:53 GMT

In article <Nov.6.11.09.52.1992.17578@cadenza.rutgers.edu> masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:


>I got a piece of mail from the computer science department of an Ivy
>League school the other day. The writer dropped a hint that there were
>400 applications for one Assistant Professor position. (Name of the
>school withheld to protect the sender.)

>At last count there are, perhaps, twenty or thirty open positions in
>the US and Canada at that level. Ergo, at least a 1000% oversupply.

>At this point, I would NOT advise anyone to get a Ph.D. in computer
>science, if they were doing it to work in academia. If you're planning
>to do it, I'd say make other plans. Unless you're a superstar, you
>probably don't have a chance.

Well, your methodology is all wrong, but your conclusion may only off
by an order of magnitude.  For more info, look at the just released
update of the Taulbee report in the latest edition of IEEE Computer.
Very depressing figures both on the number of jobs available and the
salaries for the same.  Employment in Phd granting departments has
stopped growing for the first time in 20 years and may have peaked.
Their conclusion: "well, CS Phds will just have to get jobs at
community colleges and the like, which will raise the level of
teaching at the same."

regards and good luck,
fletcher


--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers