HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: Vlad Tepes, a defense
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 06:22:53 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <Bu48t6.Er0@me.utoronto.ca> steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) writes:
>blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>>>>Tepes and his methods were no worse than those around him, just much more
>>>>memorable. :)
>>>While Vlad was probably no worse than, say, Caligula, apparently he was a
>>>bit atypical for his times.  Colin Wilson, in "A Criminal History of
>>No- I'm not saying he was a Decent Kind-hearted Leader- but he was a product of his times-
>In your original post (see above), you argue that Tepes and *methods* were
>probably no worse than his contemporaries; the list above says nothing 
>about methods, only quantity and duration.  From our perspective today,
>most of the above mass murders (let's dismiss natural disasters such as
>plagues, ok?) were simply brutal.  Women were raped probably at a rate
>which makes today's stats look cheerful (no flames pls), and decapitation
>was commonplace (as it was in revolutionary France).  Genocide was common,
>and religious persecution and torture were the norms.

Ok- methods of torture? Killing people? Pick a method....
So Tepes stuck his prisoners on a stake, instead of burning them at one, like
the 'more civilized' countries.
And, from a historical perspective, we cannot discount events like the plague-
it played an important role in defining the shape of Europe during that time.
Countries/area were ruled with a severe hand, and foreigners were a very bad
thing- Europe became feudalistic at best, tribalisitic at worst. Society
shapes its leaders.....

>As you may or may not know, torturing animals is one of the key indicators
>of a serial killer (or killer-in-waiting), and indicates sociopathic (i.e.
>outside the "norms" of society) behaviour (granted thay this key indicator
>has been defined relative to our current "norms", but I still think it is
>an interesting detail).  While the Spaniards may have made the politically
>incorrect expansionist move (flames to /dev/null), there doesn't seem to 
>be a record of them doing anything out of the ordinary (which, again, 
>to our more aesthetic tastes were decidedly *not* ordinary).

Treating animals (and humans) with little or no respect was a rampant ideal
among the 'elite' class of that time....it wasn't just Tepes who was 'zapping
kitties' or whatever.
And in regards to the Spaniards, I don't know where or why you don't consider
eliminating an >entire< civilization as being 'out of the ordinary'.....

r.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: kmoore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kyle E Moore)
Subject: RE: Being made...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:10:36 GMT

     Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Stoker's book, wasn't Dracula "made" into 
a vampire simply by being terribly evil in his mortal existence?  No mention 
seems to be made as to how he was transformed into one of the undead.

     Just a sidenote... I found it amusing in Stoker's book, and in so many 
other interpretations, that it was necessary to use the *Christian* emblems of
the Cross and the Host to ward off the evil spirit.  What if the guy was 
Jewish?

     Still a-scratchin' my head over that one...

     Kyle

     "Now THAT'S entertainment!"
          -Vlad "The Impaler" Tepes
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller)
Subject: Sunday Times article on vampires
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:05:02 GMT

There was an article in yesterday's Sunday Times (UK) about the recent
flood of vampire films and books (or soon to be flood).  There was a
lot of speculation about the connection between this and AIDS; but there
was also mention of the Marxist interpretation of vampires that I hadn't
come across before in which the vampire is seen as the embodiment of
the aristocracy, his victims are usually peasants, ie, he exploits them,
and the vampire-hunter (the Van Helsing character) is seen as personifying
the bourgeouisie (?):  well, now I know the truth!!


Antoni Diller



Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: hopkins@agora.rain.com (Scott Hopkins)
Subject: Re: "Dracula's Guest"
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:31:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.224027.1@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole) writes:
>Have any of you read this Stoker short story?  I believe it was originally
>supposed to be a chapter of _Dracula_, but was removed, and later published
>posthumously by Stoker's wife.

Yeah, I've read it and yeah, it was supposed to be in the original novel. 
From what I understand, it was removed because the publishers thought the
book was too long, or maybe the story was too horrifying (I'm not sure
which).  I know the short story was distributed at the first showing of the
Dracula play.  And it was his wife that dug it out!
>
>It's a great story, and invoves Jonathan Harker and a female vampire that 
>transforms into a giant wolf.

Yeah, I agree.  Great story.  But are you sure about the female vampire?
It's been awhile since I read it, but I don't remember a female.

			-Casey Hopkins
hopkins@agora.rain.com
.
From: bohlman@plains.NoDak.edu (Daemon)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: New Anne Rice???
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:32:56 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <Bu8qnH.3vA@andy.bgsu.edu> ckile@andy.bgsu.edu (crystal kile) writes:
>
>	I think that I read something the other day about a new Anne Rice
>novel featuring Lestat...  Anyone know any more about this??  Meanwhile, I'll
>try to dig up the article.
>                                        crystal

I don't know when the actual book is coming out, but the October Playboy is
slated to have an excerpt.  It takes place in New Orleans and does feature 
Lestat.  Other than that I have no idea.

Meanwhile, I'll have to find some way to kill the time until the book comes
out.

Hmmm...

 kill -9 wasted_time??
-- 
bohlman@plains.NoDak.edu\                              _        / _
                         >- Death to .sig shrinkers!  (")      / (")  WHACK!
bohlmand@milo.NoDak.edu /                             | |\    /  -|-
                                                      |_| \==O   / \
From: barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampire books...
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:22:06 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <1992Sep8.191436.20221@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, dars@joplin.biosci.arizona.edu (David AR. Sanders) writes:
> In article <manz.715907702@ee.ualberta.ca> manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
>>In <1992Sep6.193727.18690@coe.montana.edu> drakonar@cs.montana.edu (Charles L. Stewart III) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Sep6.050545.24107@cs.mcgill.ca> zippy@cs.mcgill.ca (Fotis XIPOLITAKIS) writes:
>>>>	I recently finished reading the "Vampire chronicles" by Anne
>>>>	Rice and was severly impressed! Does anyone have the name of
>>>>	anyother good vampire series?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>Although they haven't written a series yet, Mercedes Lackey and Barbara
>>>Hambly have each written at least one rather good vampire-based novel.
>>>Also, Fred Saberhagen has written about six books in a series involving 
>>>his version of Dracula and friends.
>>
>>Titles!!  Please, give us titles!!

The Barbara Hambly book is "Those Who Stalk (Hunt?) The Night", and I
highly recommend it (for what its worth).

                                          -Drizzt
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: tomg@mishima.mn.org (Thomas Greenwalt)
Subject: Re: PENTOGRAMS GOOD OR BAD?
Organization: Alternate Realities
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:21:53 GMT

bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash) writes:
>
> > P.S.  Of all the anti-vampire devices, the wooden stake 
>       through the heart is the best.  Works on all of them.

Actually thats not true.  There is the japanese creature known as a
gaki that while not a vampire in the central european fictional vampire
sense is generally incorperal, which makes it hard to pound a stake
through it.  Also there is a chinese vampire which is an energy
vampire and also incorperal.
-- 
Thomas S. Greenwalt (Tom-Too)                                  (612)866-1344
7300 Nicollet Ave. S, Mpls, MN 55423                     tomg@mishima.mn.org 
-------------- Death: SEE! I HAVE TIME! AT LAST I HAVE TIME! ---------------
--- Alfred: And now that you have it, what are you going to do with it? ----
From: dars@joplin.biosci.arizona.edu (David AR. Sanders)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampire books...
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:14:36 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Biotechnology, Tucson

In article <manz.715907702@ee.ualberta.ca> manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
>In <1992Sep6.193727.18690@coe.montana.edu> drakonar@cs.montana.edu (Charles L. Stewart III) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep6.050545.24107@cs.mcgill.ca> zippy@cs.mcgill.ca (Fotis XIPOLITAKIS) writes:
>>>	I recently finished reading the "Vampire chronicles" by Anne
>>>	Rice and was severly impressed! Does anyone have the name of
>>>	anyother good vampire series?
>>>
>>>
>
>>Although they haven't written a series yet, Mercedes Lackey and Barbara
>>Hambly have each written at least one rather good vampire-based novel.
>>Also, Fred Saberhagen has written about six books in a series involving 
>>his version of Dracula and friends.
>
>Titles!!  Please, give us titles!!


OK  Here's some titles......    The Mercedes Lackey book that features
a vampire is "The Children Of The Night" A detective series that actually
stars a 'witch' in Modern day Toronto... Ther's a couple others in the
series as well.

Fred Saberhagen's Books are "Vlad",  "Tepes", "A Friend of the Family"
and a couple of others I can't remember....quite good stuff.

tHEre's is also another series of rather light, but fun vampire books, 
I can't remember who wrote them, but they all have "Blood" in the titles.

Dave
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray)
Subject: Re: Nosferatu: The Vampyre?
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:54:44 GMT

In article <xntnnsa.despair@netcom.com> despair@netcom.com (Scott Hanson) writes:
>In article <something> hopkins@agora.rain.com (Scott Hopkins) writes:
>>	Anyone know how to get a hold of the remake of Nosferatu - 
>
>It is noticibly different from the silent version (The clubfoot orchestra's
>alternate soundtrack is highly recommended, especially live)

Is this available anywhere?  The soundtrack on the video is lame, to
say the least.

>This is an incredibly delightful film.  It did not survive the transition to
>videotape well, which answeres your question.  It is officially released, but
>with poor quality.  This was at least a year and a half ago.  The poor
>quality is apparently due to the use of a print played a considerable amount.

Are you taking about the silent version, or the remake?


--
            Eric Murray                 ericm@microunity.com
In this game, the winner is also the loser, and the judge's decisions are final
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: despair@netcom.com (Scott Hanson)
Subject: Re: Nosferatu: The Vampyre?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 13:43:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <something> hopkins@agora.rain.com (Scott Hopkins) writes:
>	Anyone know how to get a hold of the remake of Nosferatu - 
>Nosferatu: The Vampyre?  It has Klaus Kinski in it.  I believe that it is
>not yet available on videotape, but it is worth a shot.  
>	Anyone seen it?  How is it?  Does it follow Stoker's novel any
>closer then the first?  Or does it stick to the original movie closer?  I
>heard that it emphazises more on the plague from the first one.

It is noticibly different from the silent version (The clubfoot orchestra's
alternate soundtrack is highly recommended, especially live) there is a great
deal of attention paid to rats, which Kinski seems especially fond of.

This is an incredibly delightful film.  It did not survive the transition to
videotape well, which answeres your question.  It is officially released, but
with poor quality.  This was at least a year and a half ago.  The poor
quality is apparently due to the use of a print played a considerable amount.

I have only seen it in one video store, and I live in LA. 

Regards.

-- 
Scott Hanson		This has been a recording.
despair@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: bragg@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Aquatic Joe)
Subject: Re: Actual accounts...
Organization: The Green Circle Of Vengence
Distribution: wherever
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:50:13 GMT

In article <18rd8mINNjuu@aludra.usc.edu> aumentad@aludra.usc.edu (Jesus Hates You) writes:
> Anybody heard about the disinterment of emphysema victims in the eighteen hundreds?  I guess back then they thought that they(the emphysema victims) would come back from the dead and infect the living.  They would have big disinterment parties at night and mutilate the body which was often not completely decayed and cross the femurs over the torso and place the head right above the established cross.  The funny thing is that it really wasn't all that weird back then.

	I thought it was Tuberculosis.  It's also interesting that these people
would also 'check up' on long gone loved ones.  Any where from a week or two to
a few years.   Imagine that aroma...
-- 
Adam Bragg                  |Tick: Hand Grenade Man? What are your super-powers?
bragg@freezer.cns.udel.edu  | HGM: Super powers? Bah!  Who needs 'em? I've got a
darkwing@ravel.udel.edu     |      HAND GRENADE!
                          SPOON!
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ieya@byron.u.washington.edu (Morpheus Laughing)
Subject: Re: Fiction vampire list, version 1.0
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:04:52 GMT

ya know, the vampyres mailing list maintains a list of vampyre books and movies
that is considerably more extensive than that and you're simply duplicating 
work that's already been done...

ieya


-- 
corey w nelson		|  EGO PROJECT NUMBER II: a goth/som zine
keeper of the Sisters	|  mail me to sign up for the electronic or snailmail  
of Mercy FAQ, DISCOG	|  versions. issue 1 out Aug.2. featuring interviews
and several others...	|  with Andrew Eldritch, Current 93, lotsa goth reviews
From: rodgers@maxwell.mmwb.ucsf.edu (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: We need a list of Vamp[iy]re Movies
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:39:53 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab


Oh yes, the film "Near Dark," recommended in an article about vampire
lore which appeared in The Economist in the last year, should be
added to the list (have not yet seen it, myself)...
--
R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.         (415)476-8910
UCSF Laurel Heights Campus     UUCP: ...ucbvax.berkeley.edu!cca.ucsf.edu!rodgers3333 California St., Suite 102 Internet: rodgers@maxwell.mmwb.ucsf.edu
San Francisco CA 94118 USA     BITNET: rodgers@ucsfcca
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: wildcard@nevada.edu ( WildCard !!)
Subject: Re: We need a list of Vamp[iy]re Movies
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:17:10 GMT



How about Roman Polanski's "The Fearless Vampire Hunters?"

                                      - WildCard !!

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+  "I will not presume to probe the recesses of the Eskimo psyche, gentlemen."+
+                                       - Cecil Adams, _the_Straight_Dope_    +
+----------------     wildcard@redrock.nevada.edu    -------------------------+
From: jdevlin@pollux.usc.edu (Joseph T. Devlin)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Movie List
Date: 4 Sep 1992 14:51:22 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

  Favorite vampire movies, eh?  How about:

	_Lost Boys_ 	- A fun movie that trys to keep up
			  with proper myths but comes out less
			  than terrifying.  (Still alot of fun.)

	_Fright Night_	- A little better.  I loved "Evil Ed."

  Haven't seen _Buffy, the Vapire Slayer_ yet but it looks like a great
one as long as you have a couple (read MANY) beers before hand...

Just my $0.02.

						- Joe



  



Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: billd@cray.com (Bill Davidson)
Subject: Re: Being made...
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:11:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.131036.17282@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kmoore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kyle E Moore) writes:
>     Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Stoker's book, wasn't Dracula "made" into 
>a vampire simply by being terribly evil in his mortal existence?  No mention 
>seems to be made as to how he was transformed into one of the undead.

You've got it in the second sentance.  No mention is made of how he
became a vamipre.  Stoker leaves the question completely open.  Perhaps
he felt it uninmportant.  Perhaps he felt it was best left to the
reader's imagination.  Perhaps he meant to write another book.

>     Just a sidenote... I found it amusing in Stoker's book, and in so many 
>other interpretations, that it was necessary to use the *Christian* emblems of
>the Cross and the Host to ward off the evil spirit.  What if the guy was 
>Jewish?

Then he wasn't of The One True Religion (TM) and so damned anyway.  As
other contributors to this group have noted, vampire legends are older
than christianity and ways to ward them off are varied depending upon
the place an geography where the legend was made/developed.  Christian
emblems were added to the legend by early or middle ages by, of course,
the church.

--Bill
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Vampyre info
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:33:11 GMT

Movies:

	There is a B-movie called Subspecies which has one of the
	creepiest looking vampyres on film. (and I've seen a lot
	of vampyre movies!)

	Dance of the damned is in my opinion the best vampyre movie
	made (of those i've seen, and i've seen a LOT) for the sole
	reason that it has a substantial THEME!  This story focuses
	on the interaction between a suicidal mortal woman and a 
	despairing vampyre.  She has life but wants to die while he
	is dead but wants to be alive. By the end of the movie he 
	teaches her how to live and cherish life by giving her a taste
	of death and she gives him the courage to die the "final death"
	by giving him a taste of life.  Truely one of the best stories
	ever put to film. (sorry if I gave away the end; see it anyway!)

	"Vampire: the Masquerade" is not only an excellent role playing
 	game but fun reading for any subscribers.  It describes several
	types of vampyres in detail including their powers and personalities.
	If you haven't gamed before this is a VERY good reason to start.
	The game itself stresses "actual role playing" and keeps the rules
	to a minimum.

		BBLAUHH!
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: PENTOGRAMS GOOD OR BAD?
Keywords: good or evil?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 10:28:18 GMT

In <1992Sep05.061133.5907@bnr.ca> bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash) writes:

>In article <x_nnz7j@lynx.unm.edu>, haro@carina.unm.edu (    KANEDA) writes:
>|>HOLA AMIGOS!
>Hola, compadre.
>|>
>|>	I've got a question, are five star pentograms good or evil?
>|>So is the five star pentogram a protection device, or a havock causing
>device?
>|>And can it be used on Vampyers?

>To answer all of your questions, yes.  The pentagram is good AND evil
>depending on how it is presented.  If you look carefully, you would 
>notice that the evil pentagrams are shown upside-down (with the "center
>point" facing down) and the good ones look like normal stars (point up).
>The pentagram (good) was a pagan symbol of good luck and magic.
>Satanic symbols are "good" symbols upside-down (eg. inverted cross).
>The satanic pentagram looks like a goat-head, which leads to references
>to a connection between satan and goats (I know it sounds silly, but
>satanists are not the world's brightest people).

>(for the clueless out there...2 horns, 2 ears, and a beard)

>|>
>|>VERY CURIOUS
>|>RICK
>|>

>Curiosity is the path to wisdom

>Brian /-|-\                  

  Your treatment of pentagrams comes from a very Christian background.
The orientation of a pentagram had little bearing until Christianlty
came along and started warping Pagan traditions and symbols to its
own ends.

  The goat/pentagram symbolism you refer to comes from something called
the Baphomet.  The Baphomet is a pentagram (pointing down) with two circles
circumscribed, and the name Leviathan written in Hebrew at the points 
(in Hebrew Leviathan has only five letters.)  Often there is a goat's
head supraimposed beneath the pentagram.  This symbol is considerably
older that Christianity and the Christian concept of Satan which was
partially derived from the Wiccan Horned God and similar pagan deities.
These are what Baphomet refers to.  

  I also take offense at your ascertation that Satanists "are not the
world's brightest people."  *Real Satanists don't worship the Satan
of Christianity, but rather the Satan that Christianity stole (the
pagan mascline gods.)  Try reading Anton LeVays Satanic Bible.  It
may surprise you a bit.

  BTW, in case you were wondering, I am not a Satanist.  I'm a 
Reformed Druid.

				{     }
				 Brett
				  \ /
				   v
 
-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: jordan@cs.tulane.edu (Misti Jordan)
Subject: Re: Vampyres/Origins too
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-20025]: sparta
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 07:12:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.195514.7700@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> jhugart@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Jacob Hugart) writes:
>christ@crash.cts.com (Chris Trichel) writes:
>
>For a good book on the origins of the vampire mythos, read _Vampires, Burial,
>and Death_, a recent book with heaps o' footnotes & references, written by
>someone whose name I can't recall.  I'll post it later.

The Author is Paul Barber, and it is published by Yale University Press.

>
>This book is a must for anyone who thinks they know anything about vampires.
>
I haven't read it yet, but I'm preparing to do so...
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: tomg@mishima.mn.org (Thomas Greenwalt)
Subject: Re: Vlad Tepes, a defense
Organization: Alternate Realities
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:47:16 GMT

Well Tepes was a product of his times and I suspect some carefull 
research would show that in general the people that were impaled 
along the roads tended to be bandits, criminals, and that sort.
Perhaps a little extreme by todays standards, but effective deterrent
to other criminals I suspect.

According to my old history prof, Tepes little kingdom had a fairly 
large influx of people and was considered by the peasants to be one
of the safest places to live.

During Tepes imprisionment at the hands King Matthias, he supposedly
was provided with small animals to torture and impale and miniature
stakes.  Of course Matthias was so impressed with such excellant
behavior on the part of his prisoner and enemy that he arranged for 
Tepes to marry his younger sister Helen.  I suspect that various factions
of Europe and of course time itself have led to the gorifying of things
Tepes did.
-- 
Thomas S. Greenwalt (Tom-Too)                                  (612)866-1344
7300 Nicollet Ave. S, Mpls, MN 55423                     tomg@mishima.mn.org 
-------------- Death: SEE! I HAVE TIME! AT LAST I HAVE TIME! ---------------
--- Alfred: And now that you have it, what are you going to do with it? ----
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres