HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Ted Robinson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Animal Cult Backtracks on Dog Show Attacks
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:41:52 GMT
Reply-To: tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Ted Robinson)
Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale, CA

In article <1992Sep10.054217.13548@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, 
swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:

>     How is "liberating" dogs any different from releasing lab rats or
> farm animals to starvation, dehydration, predation, disease and
> cannibalism - acts PeTA has expressly endorsed as 'acceptable
> crimes?"
 
Did PETA really endorse "releasing ... animals to starvation, etc."? In the 
actions I've heard of them supporting, the liberated animals were reported to 
have been placed in foster homes, which is quite a different story indeed. 
Perhaps you can give us the complete, in context, PETA quote from which this 
is drawn? 

Ted Robinson
tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com
These views are mine and not Amdahl's, etc.
From: linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Voting results
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:49:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.berkeley.edu


Subject: Re: Voting Results

In article <1992Sep8.223835.16262@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>In article <1992Sep08.144044.25095@refrig.dixie.com> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
>> [...]  Come on, Russell, call me a liar again - I just
>>might have that message here after all.

 
>>Todd++;
>>todd@refrig.dixie.com

>Look here todd--, why don't you put up or shut up? If you can prove Russell
>a liar, then do so. Otherwise, keep your infantile ramblings to yourself.

>Paul


Here comes Paul to Russell's rescue and he's powerful mad.  Apparantly he 
feels that in order to ramble, one must do so in a mostly intellectual way
the way his good pal Russell does.  It has been my observation that Russell
is amongst the best on t.p.a. at deceiving, manipulating and twisting the
comments of others as well as taking dicussions off on wild tangents.  But,
I guess because Todd isn't as well polished as the slippery Russell Paul
feels he should shut up.  Perhaps Paul should ask Mr. Lawrence to shut up
as well if rambling is his pet peeve.  Either that or maybe Paul could stand
to do some shutting up.    

That's what I think.  Yeah.

Mike Linan







Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Voting Results
Date: 7 Sep 92 01:25:07 GMT
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club

russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:

>From article <1992Sep05.024058.18500@refrig.dixie.com>, by todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.):
>th> I don't have it any more.  I read it, had a good belly-laugh, and 
>th> hit the 'D' key to send it to bit-heaven.  I'm sure you've got a 
>th> copy of it somewhere, why don't you post it?  I'm sure this may 
>th> come as a shock to you, Russell, but I don't adoringly save each 
>th> and every one of your scintillating posts.  

>Gee, you remembered this email message well-enough to claim that 
>it was nearly identical with the comments made by Linda Guidry, 
>yet I don't recall sending you such a message.  Moreover, there 
>was no record of any such correspondence in our system logs.  

Ah, what would a discussion be without Russell Lawrence, the Nixon of t.p.a
denying such things existed now that there's a possibility he may get away
with it?  I knew this thread would get back to the old basics.


Let's see if I can jog your memory - it went something like this: 'dreamer' 
posted drivel, then whined because nobody loved him any more.  I posted a 
message something like: "Gee, when even Russell Lawrence won't defend you
with one of his patented 1,000 line posts, you gotta know you're unloved",
whereupon I got a snippy message in Email from yours truly that said things
about "Don't presume to assume what I do or don't like" and other such
high-and-mighty Russellisms, all in all reading much like your alter-ego's
post.

What it all gets down to is the fact that to tell the difference between
your and linda's posts, I have to look at the headers or the signature -
you read like the same person.  GET THE POINT?  Whether you like it or
not, I don't believe a word you say.  Nice job on the name, though, there
are only 6,820 Guidrys listed in the state of Louisiana.  Nice coon-ass
name.  Probably came from a family of crocadrie and grosbek poachers.
Next door neighbors to the Boudreuxs and the Caros.

Oh, by the way - I've given more thought to your offer of a feed while I
was out of town on business - it won't change my problem, it'll only change
the source of expense slightly.  I'm working on the Wheeler problem in my
own way, and so far, it looks like it's going to hit pay dirt.  After all,
if it works for him, it might just work for me.  <BIG GRIN>

Gad, but anarchies are nice places to hang out in the evenings.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
From: tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Ted Robinson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Animal Cult Backtracks on Dog Show Attacks
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:16:11 GMT
Reply-To: tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Ted Robinson)
Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale, CA

In article <1992Sep10.054217.13548@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, 
swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:

>      "Phase One" involves attempts by groups such as the Peninsula
> Humane Society and Fund For Animals to ban pet breeding across the
> nation. As John Hoyt of HSUS demands, "Don't breed, don't buy, don't
> even accept giveaways."

Did these groups work to "ban" breeding, or merely to reduce it by levying a 
fee? In the case of the San Mateo County ordinance dealing with this, I 
believe it was the latter, which is a far cry from a ban.

> "I was there," responds the editor, "and personally observed the
> behavior of the group which claim PeTA affiliation.  They were
> dressed in the '60's 'hippy' style. . . they were dirty, unkempt, and
> not interested in listening to anyone, only in causing obvious
> trouble.  They screamed loudly that they were PeTA members.  The
> Security folks reported several opened crates and loosed dogs, and
> these people claimed they had done it and were glad they did it!"
 
Read this description again, especially the part about screaming loudly that 
they were PETA members. Also, the part about being interested in causing 
*obvious* trouble. Which does it sound more like, people working to help 
animals, or people working to discredit the AR movement? I think you've been 
bamboozled.  

  
BTW - I've heard that Ingrid is a very soft-spoken individual. I find it hard 
to believe that she "snarled" anything. Did you hear her snarl yourself? Did 
someone else? Or did you make this up? If so, can we then assume that all 
other desriptions of what Ingrid said/did are similarly invented/distorted?

Ted Robinson
tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com
These views are mine and not Amdahl's, etc.
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: RE: Animal Research
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:47:32 GMT
Organization: WP Group

w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu writes:
jc> Here at Washington University in St.  Louis, I have been a part 
jc> of organizing a group of medical and graduate students into a 
jc> group called "Animal Research in Science and Education", or 
jc> ARISE.  We aim to teach the public about the true nature of animal 
jc> research - how and why it is carried out, and why we feel animal 
jc> research must be allowed to continue.  We also devote 
jc> considerable effort to address the half-truths and outright lies 
jc> concerning animal research which groups like PETA and PCRM spread 
jc> on a daily basis.  

Russell Lawrence wrote:
rl> Would you mind posting a few of these "outright lies"/

From article <15SEP92.08553949@wums.wustl.edu>, by w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu:
jc> Certainly.  For example, the director of PCRM has made the claim 
jc> that no human has ever benefitted from animal research.  This is 
jc> an outright lie.  

Please furnish the exact statement, and name the source of your
information.  I'd like to pass it along to the director of PCRM and
ask him for his comments.

rl> -- How much money is spent on animal research in the US each year?
rl> -- How many americans receive little or no health care because of 
rl>    financial disabilities?

jc> Currently, our health care system spends less than 2% of its 
jc> annual budget on research of ANY type.  For an industry as 
jc> dependent on high technology as health care, this figure should 
jc> be AT LEAST 10%.  And I fail to see the connection between animal 
jc> research and those americans who are unable to afford health 
jc> care.  I'm as infuriated as anyone that so many americans go 
jc> without adequate health care, but whether or not we fund research 
jc> in this country has nothing to do with it!  

Perhaps, but it seems to me we ought to set our priorities in 
order.  It also seems to me that the same groups that campaign 
most vociferously in favor of animal research are precisely the 
groups that have opposed reforms in the health care delivery 
system.   Why is that?

How much money is spent on animal research in the US each year?

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Animal have no rights
Organization: WP Group
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:55:30 GMT

From article <92Sep14.161805.34020@acs.ucalgary.ca>, by powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim B. Powlesland):
> Animals have no rights. Only PERSONS have rights. Human beings are
> persons because they have the capacity to make moral
> distinctions. Animals do not have the capacity to make moral
> distinctions; therefore they are not persons.

Your notion of personhood seems to be extremely limited.   Are you
seriously suggesting that retarded humans and young children aren't
persons if/when they lack the capacity to make "moral" distinctions?
Distinctions between "good" and "bad" come in all flavors.  What 
particular distinctions did you have in mind?
-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Factory Farming Seminar
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:34:28 GMT


AAVS to Host Factory Farming Seminar

October 31 - November 1

   The American Anti-Vivisection Society (AAVS) will host a seminar on
factory farming issues on October 31 - November 1, 1992, at Fellowship
Farm in Pottstown, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia.  The seminar will
serve two purposes: to educate participants thoroughly about modern
intensive animal agribusiness practices and to provide information about
actions that advocates can take to protect animals used for food and to
promote vegetarianism.

   Speakers at the seminar will include Jim Mason, co-author with Peter
Singer of _Animal Factories_; Gene Bauston of Farm Sanctuary; Alex
Hershaft of the Farm Animal Reform Movement; Henry Spira of Animal
Rights International; Karen Davis of United Poultry Concerns; and other
noted activists and leaders in animal protection.

   The cost for the weekend, including vegan meals, is $100.00.
Accomodations at the farm are available for an additional fee.  For more
information, please contact the AAVS at (215) 887-0816.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Iowa Conference
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:16:57 GMT

	Irrigation side note: you do not irrigate from aquifers.  You get
your water from a river or large stream.  Aquifers cost too much to tap
into with 15" well casings and cost too much to pump from to make it at
all cost-effective.  Dropping a feed pipe in the local stream is about
the only viable pumping option.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >

Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Iowa Conference
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:15:39 GMT

Dan Sorenson writes:
>Robert J Unglenieks writes:
>>Then explain why the aquifers are drying up in some places. There is a limited
>>supply of fresh water in the world and we are doing our best to use it up
>>quickly......
>
>	How about cities pumping water from the aquifer, using it, then
>dropping it into the storm sewers where it can head down the river and
>pollute the Gulf Stream?  Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that
>major seaboard municipalities have a problem with this happening.

One of the aquifers I am thinking of is the Ogallala.  It's location doesn't
put it near major cities that pump from it.  These cities get water from the
rivers that they are built on, i.e., Missouri, Mississippi, etc.

>>Then explain those long pipe thingies that rotate about a center pivot 
>>point that seem to be growing all over Nebraska..... they usually only
>>grow where crops are.  Maybe it's modern art.... from the air those
>>green circles are really neat lookin'    :-)

>	Whenever you come down from the air, you might have a look at
>wht passes for soil in Nebraska.  Many of us call it "sand," and some
>have even gone so far as to call it "parking lot foundation."  Really,
>Nebraska is generally far too dry and sandy for serious crop growth.
>Hence, they need to irrigate.  The same can be said of much of California.

Then why do they bother to grow on it?  How much of what is grown in
Nebraska is for human consumption and how much is for the feedlots along
the Platte River valley?  Nebraska does produce quite a bit of agricultural
products, and that would increase the "average" amount of water needed for
producing a pound of beef.

>Take a look around your state and note how few farms are irrigated.  Now
>note that even fewer in Iowa are irrigated.  If you don't need it, it
>doesn't make economic sense to use it.

Indiana isn't a very good example.  Many farmers have had to resort to
irrigation because of the rain shortage earlier this year and last year.
There are quite a few regions where pumping water from a nearby stream isn't
feasible, because there isn't a nearby stream.  Then you also run into
water rights problems, engineering problems, etc.  Sometimes it is easier
to tap into that water underground.

Rob U, if it's the cheapest alternative it's used no matter what
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-     "Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle           -
-      of compassion to embrace all living creatures."                     -
-                           -  Albert Einstein                             -
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Voting Results
Organization: WP Group
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:22:46 GMT

From article <1992Sep10.205437.2584@refrig.dixie.com>, by todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.):
th> I've been hanging around the written media for a number of years 
th> now, and I've noticed all sorts of neat mannerisms that people 
th> have - how they form thier paragraphs, spacing, punctuation, and 
th> all that jazz.  One that jumps out at me with you two (or one) is 
th> that your right margins are identical, and still very much away 
th> from the statistical mean.  Here's some data: 
th> 
th> 
th> Average line length in messages
th> -------------------------------
th> Todd Hedenstrom         75.06 chars
th> James M Hoskins         72.92
th> Rich Young              72.80
th> Dan Sorenson            72.52
th> Rob Unglenieks          71.72
th> Robert Black            69.33
th> Linda Guidry            62.77
th> Russell Lawrence        61.64

Most of the users at my site take advantage of a paragraph 
reformatting tool (tform) that wraps lines that exceed precisely 
65 characters.  I've temporarily misplaced the source, but I'd be 
happy to share it with anyone who wants it.  By mapping 'tform' 
onto function keys, it's easy for vi users to generate text with 
a standard, "formatted" appearance.   

> ...
th> Now, explain just how it is that you not only sound the same, but 
th> have the same writing habits, so clearly skewed from the mean?  
th> If Linda's score was removed, we'd have had a near-perfect bell 
th> curve, even with the small data base.  

Try not to confuse "writing habits" with "text-editing tools".  
Text analysis is quite a bit more complicated than counting up
the characters in a line.

th> Honestly, Linda/Russell - keep up the sputtering, it's quite 
th> amusing.  The simple fact remains, as a forger, you're a failure.  
th> You've been found out.  

So you say.

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Lies about PETA
Date: 12 Sep 92 02:54:14 GMT
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan) writes:

`In article <9209111803.AA20561@super.super.org> wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler) writes:

`>There has been some talk about "soft spoken" Ingrid Newkirk.
`>I have met her and her pet (now deceased). (Actually, PETA
`>headquarters is the only office building I know where the
`>pets of employees are allowed at all times.)  If you ever
`>get a chance to hear her speak, regardless of your position
`>on animal protection issues, I urge you to go.  She is a
`>wonderful speaker.  Everyone should take the opportunity to
`>hear first hand the views of people who are (for good
`>or ill) having a fundamental effect on our culture.

`She sounds like a power hungry idiot to me.

In a communications influenced world as we are in today, those who are
wonderful speakers or elliquent with words gain in power.  If you don't
believe this, let me give to opposing examples:

Adolf Hitler in World War II (good public speaker - gained lots of power)

Dan Quayle - Vice President (bad public speaker - target of ridicule)

swood









-- 
+========================+    -------_________     +=========================+
| WANTED - DEAD OR ALIVE |    o\ o \     ____|o    |  If you see this lure,  |
|  Creek Chub "Plunker"  |      \___\_-o-    viv   | PLEASE send me email!!! |
+========================+            viv          +=========================+
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Meat eating and hunting
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:43:11 GMT

>Robert J Unglenieks writes:
>   In Indiana, there is a problem with an overabundance of deer in the
>   State Parks (no hunting allowed, hunters reintroduced deer to the
>   state in the 30's).

Tim Rigg writes:
>No come on!  This is bull.  Are the exploding deer populations in
>Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan and Ohio also due to hunters
>"reintroducing" them to those states?
>tim

Sorry this took so long, but I had to find it again......

From the Indianapolis News, Monday, April 27, 1992:

  "Deer became extinct in Indiana after settlers first began razing forests
   for cropland, Pagac said. They were reintroduced during the 1930s."

Gerald Pagac is the state parks director for the Indiana DNR.  The article
details problems with the no-hunting restriction in the parks and how the
recent mild winters have contributed to the problem.  Pagac is one of the
supporters of making the deer meat available for the homeless, if this is
the method chosen, using sharpshooters.

Brown County State Park is the hardest hit but only Eagle Creek has a high
population, although the Eagle Creek population isn't at a critical level.

Rob U, does anybody have any info on the deer birth control vaccine?
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-     "Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle           -
-      of compassion to embrace all living creatures."                     -
-                           -  Albert Einstein                             -
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Game Management Policies
Organization: WP Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:24:19 GMT

From article <1992Sep10.152054.2620@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins):
jh> Where I differ is that Mr. Lawrence is so cock-sure of what is 
jh> right from his point of view that he never exhibits any tendency 
jh> that his position has been modified or enriched by anything you, 
jh> me or anybody differing from him has ever said.  It's all water 
jh> off a duck's bill.  His tenacity is amazing.  

You're misrepresenting my position.  I'm not at all "cock-sure" 
that I'm right.  I'm simply not sure that you're right, and 
hence, I ask a lot of questions.  

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Voting Results
Organization: WP Group
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:36:59 GMT


From article <1992Sep07.012507.21825@refrig.dixie.com>, by todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.):
th> What it all gets down to is the fact that to tell the difference 
th> between your and linda's posts, I have to look at the headers or 
th> the signature - you read like the same person.  GET THE POINT?  

Linda owns her own home; she has two children; she's a 
part-time student at University of New Orleans; and she's 
well-respected in the economic niche where she earns her 
living.  Yet, you think she's a non-existent person because of 
similarities between the headers and signatures of her postings 
and my own.  Would you mind explaining the feats of logic that 
led you to make such a conclusion?  

th> Whether you like it or not, I don't believe a word you say.  Nice 
th> job on the name, though, there are only 6,820 Guidrys listed in 
th> the state of Louisiana.  Nice coon-ass name.  Probably came from 
th> a family of crocadrie and grosbek poachers.  Next door neighbors 
th> to the Boudreuxs and the Caros.  

"Guidry" is Linda's married name.  Her maiden name reflects an
ethnic heritage that's remote from acadiana.  I'm sure she won't
mind if I divulge her maiden name to you, Todd, but first, would
you mind providing us with a list of any other ethnic names that
would be deserving of a hunter's ridicule? 

th> Oh, by the way - I've given more thought to your offer of a feed 
th> while I was out of town on business - it won't change my problem, 
th> it'll only change the source of expense slightly.  I'm 
th> working on the Wheeler problem in my own way, and so far, it 
th> looks like it's going to hit pay dirt.  After all, if it 
th> works for him, it might just work for me.  <BIG GRIN> 

Bluster, threats, and insults are poor weapons in any arena.  
Perhaps you would accomplish more for your cause if you would 
spend more time analyzing your own position critically, and 
spend less time trying to dismiss the views of other posters.  

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals