Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Ref: Why I am not a Muslim [was re: Why I am an atheist/Christian...]
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:42:08 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) writes:

>In article <adams.714849832@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) writes:

[About Ayatollah Khomeni]
>>>Please elaborate with specifics otherwise I can't respond to you.
>>Hostage taking?  Execution of political dissidents?  Etc.

>	[47:4]
>	Therefore, when you meet the Rejecters of Faith (in battle),
>	smite at their necks; at length when you have thoroughly
>	subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the
>	time for) either generosity or ransom...
I have no problem with this.  War is hell, as they say.

>As to taking hostages in peace time without any threat of war, this is
>a violation of freedom which is a protected right in Islam.
This is good to hear.  Do you mind if I ask what 'branch' of Islam you
follow?  It would appear that the Shi'ite branch is fanatical and
fundamentalist, comparable to Christians of the same mold.  This is the
branch that has spawned Khomeni, et al.

>Execution of political dissidents amounts to taking a life when no life
>has been taken.  The Qur'an does not uphold this as justice.
Also good to hear.  I take it then the Islamic Republic of Iran is an
outlaw state?  In the eyes of Muslims, as well as most of the West.

>>Not at all.  Why is it stretching to call it an allegory or parable?  It is
>>a poetic description of man's relationship with God and creation.  I don't
>>see the problem with this at all.  Care to enlighten me?

>I think we have reached an impasse on this point, I say it is and you say it
>isn't - or is that the other way around :-)?  No further argument from me
>therefore - perhaps the Qur'an will provide a good contrast for you.

We agree to disagree.  At least for the moment.

>>>I have not used any 'special pleading', and in fact, I've tried to emphasize
>>>that there is no need for this in Islam because the Qur'an is truthful.
>>In ussing 'Special pleading', I am referring to plenary verbal inspiration 
>>for Christians and the 'God written' status you assign to the Qur'an.  Neither
>>can ever be proven, and thus fall into a faith-based special pleading.

>It may be that I'm learning something from all this: why God and the last 
>Messenger emphasized that it is a Muslim's duty to simply inform and not to
>force the Truth down anyone's throat.  It is that since the Qur'an is the
>Word of God, not even Muslims can say they understand it completely.  The
>Qur'an itself says
>	[17:85]
>	...of knowledge, it is only a little that is communicated
>	to you (O mankind).
>Therefore, it really is only God who can guide someone to a 'proof' which is
>acceptable to that person - and this relates a little to your point.

This is the same thing that I beleive the Bible (NT) teaches.

 -Steve
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     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558