From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: Tough Tests(Re: Education (was: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:21:04 GMT

>> Bite your tongue!  College and higher education should be available
>> as an option for nearly anyone who has the determination and cash to
>> learn.  I think part of our culture is at least trying to create a
>> class system based on determination and luck.  Based on my test scores,
>> I shouldn't have gone to the schools that I did, but through determination
>> I was able to secure a high GPA that allowed me to go to this grad school.
>> I agree that the Ivy League has high admission standards, and that many
>> state schools do not have as high standards, but that should not be
>> a reason to shut the door and create an underclass of determined but not so
>> brainy people. 
>> By emulating Europe and Japan in this respect, we would create a similarly
>> based caste system, with the most brainy running things, and the 
>> more practical and determined underclass less empowered.  Sorry, I 
>> prefer the opportunity to defy the 'odds' thank you very much...
>
>Of course, Europe has a much better social-welfare system, less
>poverty, less crime, etc. than the USA.  Additionally, the UK had the

We cannot be sure that less violence and such is due to their social
welfare system, or if it is, that our crime, etc., would be cut down
significantly [especially when firearms in Europe have been under tight
control for a VERY long time, or illegal to own.  While that solution
to firearms works in Europe, we cannot do it in the US: too many gun owners
now - roughly 100,000,000+ - and that pesky Bill of Rights...]

>intelligence to vote the Conservatives into power into four straight
>elections, something the American voters didn't have the smarts to
>do.... :-)

:) :) :) :)

>Actually, the Founding FATHERS didn't like the idea of having the
>uneducated have a huge influence on the election; hence the Electoral
>College system.

True, but they did support education those masses, and hence completing
Montesqieu (sp) and the other French Philosophers envisioned in their
utopias.

BTW:  If you have ever read Mont., our government structure is basically
completely 'lifted' from his treatises.  Its pretty funny and kind of
shocking that his system, as implemented, hasn't worked too badly...
>
>I still think US university admission requirements are too lenient.

I think that it is pretty obvious which schools are on which tiers, so
doesn't matter much - I would much prefer to allow anyone to get as
educated as he/she can stand than to say "Sorry, your scores on test
xx75 are too low for us to allow you to learn any more from a school."

Granted, some schools are pretty easy to get into though...
[you have to be breathing, and sign your name on that check...]

-- 
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| Brent L. Irvine         | The above personal opinions     |Winter vacation: |
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