From: asai@etl.go.jp (Kiyoshi Asai)
Subject: SUMMARY: My fault ?
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Followup-To: rec.games.bridge
Reply-To: asai@etl.go.jp (Kiyoshi ASAI)
Organization: Electrotechnical Laboratory, Tsukuba Science City
	<gmhPr.asai@etl.go.jp> 
	<1992Sep25.134519.21403@e2big.mko.dec.com> <1662@idacrd.UUCP> 
	<6775@transfer.stratus.com> <4543@tivoli.UUCP> 
	<1992Sep28.140635.14423@e2big.mko.dec.com> 
	<17622@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> <1666@idacrd.UUCP> 
	<17645@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> <4619@tivoli.UUCP> 
	<davidm.717806622@voltaire> <1agahaINNgvf@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> 
	<1992Oct3.083359.19531@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> <4725@tivoli.UUCP> 
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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:15:36 GMT

  Thanks for all discussions on "My fault ?" and I apologize for the
misplacement of the hands of Eeast-West. This is the summary of the
discussions.
  BTW, I'm going to visit Banff and Boston this month, so I want some
information for the duplicate bridge clubs in these cities. I'll be
happy to recieve E-mails.

SUMMARY
  Double Knock Out Team Event (Prince Takamatsu's Cup) in Japan,
  Neither Vul, the full hand and bidding:

         S AJ109x             E     S       W       N
         H A9x                1H    pass    2H      2S
         D Qxx                3H    3S      pass    pass
         C 7x                 4H    pass    pass    pass
S xxxx     N     S Qx
H J10x  W     E  H KQ8xx
D Kx             D AJxx       South (my partner)'s lead = SK
C Kxxx     S     C QJ
         S Kx
         H xx
         D xxxx
         C A10xxx

 I (North) overtook the SK by SA and led the C7, intending to get
a second round club ruff (after holding up CA by South). When I
overtook SK, I thought South must have KQx or Kxx(excluded by East's
spade was x).
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins):
> I don't think anyone made a clear error (except the declarer, whose
> bidding was awful).
 That was what I thought at the table just after the disaster.

 I was interested with these problems discussed.
(1) North's bid of 2S
(2) South's raise to 3S
(3) North's overtaking by SA and leading C7

(1) North's bid of 2S
taylor@logan.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
> I admit I would have expected more from your hand with your 2 spade bid
martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel):
> The 2S bid by East is automatic (it is in fact a semi-balancing
> bid in this situation). Many experts would consider it right even
> without the diamond queen.
taylor@logan.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
> North's bid of 2 spades was on the shaky side.  North's hand is going
> nowhere.  8 losers opposite a hand that could not take a bid with a maximum
> of 2 hearts??   3S should have been soundly doubled.
taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
> I would disagree that 2S is automatic. Partner has a balancing bid
> coming. With 2H, he will make one if he has anything.

 I _thought_ 2S was automatic. I am influenced by Mike Lawrence's
"Overcall".

(2) South's raise to 3S
tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill):
> Sure.
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins):
> The 3S bid is aggressive but could work.
barth@bcse.enet.dec.com (Karl Barth):
> Definitely a questionable decision.  The hand looks like it may
> defend very well and, while the 1.5 Quicks are nice, they aren't the
> world's fair.  Partner might expect you to hold this much - although
> he is likely to expect the king not to be in Spades.
martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel):
> The raise to 3S is wrong. It will violate the law of total tricks
> unless partner is 7-2 or 6-1 in the majors, and will usually lead
> to a minus score (note that the opponents could have gotton 3S down
> 3 on the acual hand, and if partner was 5-2-3-3 it could be worse)
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins):
> A minor point, but I don't see how you can go down more than two.  If
> the opponents don't lead trump, you score a heart ruff (possibly with
> the king), four trumps, and two aces.  If the opponents lead trump, you
> score five trumps and two aces.
> The opponents have nine tricks in hearts, which puts the total-trick
> count one over.  I think this is not surprising, given the 3S bidder's
> hand.
martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel):
> it is rarely right to make a bid which is likely to be off by two and could
> easily be off the total trick count by 3.
taylor@logan.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
>IMHO I say South's raise was a good one.
taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
> I agree that 3s could have gone done pretty badly,

 I don't raise to 3S on South's hand. It's a style combined with
North's "automatic" 2S. For those who expect much for 2S, 3S might be
reasonable, but I still doubt South's hand is too defensively strong.

(3) North's overtaking by SA and leading C7
tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill):
> Yes.  As noted above, I concur with Kiyoshi's inference that declarer
> started with a singleton spade.
barth@bcse.enet.dec.com (Karl Barth):
> No.  If East is playing partner for the CA, you may as well
> discourage Spades and hope partner realizes you want a club.  From
> West's point of view, it might be necessary to force declarer to
> guess clubs.  Ie, you have a decent shot at getting a club shift for
> the "wrong" reason by discouraging spades.  I was wrong in my earlier
> post - East should not encourage on the opening lead. Note that it
> doesn't matter what East plays.  West will continue spades anyway,
> since he knows there are two tricks to take in that suit.
martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel):
> East's defense of overtaking is definately a mistake (though not
> because partner might have Kx!). As argued before, this should show
> a stiff club It would also be costly if declarer had something like
> x, K9xxxx, AJx, AJT by removing his guess for the club queen.
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins):
> Can you explain why overtaking and leading a club should show a
> singleton, and signaling for a club shift should show a doubleton?  It
> seems technically just as sound to play the reverse.
> I agree that it would be (very!) nice to have an agreement.  I just
> don't see how to deduce one or the other from common sense principles.
> The benefits of shifting to clubs and the risks are the same in both
> cases (you gain if West has the ace and lose if you eliminate a guess).
martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel):
> Signalling for a club shift does not show a doubleton, it could just show
> strength in clubs  and denies a singleton. The reason for this
> from a technical point of view, is that it is fine for partner to underlead
> the ace both when you have the queen and when you have a doubleton. Thus low
> shows one of these two holdings (when partner has the ace), which means the
> only way to show a singleton is to overtake. 

 I couldn't trust partner to underlead the CA after my discourage
of spade continuation. That might be my mistake because the partner
was a exeptionally strong player comparing my usual partners.
 However, I'll overtake next time too, after finding the partner who
never raise to 3S on that South's hand:-).

Kiyoshi ASAI
  Electrotechnical Laboratory
  Director of Tsukuba Bridge Club, JAPAN