HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jagrant@emr1.emr.ca (John Grant)
Subject: Re: climbing equipment
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:30:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.235026.5788@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> akarpowicz@mta.ca writes:
>
>Does anyone know a supplier of climbing equipment in Canada,
>preferably east/central? Mail-order of course.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Adam
	Mountain Equipment Co-op has stores in Vancouver, Calgary,
	Toronto and Ottawa.  I don't have my catalogue here,
	but you can get their number from information.  They
	have good prices, good equipment, great mail-order
	service.
-- 
John A. Grant						jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
Airborne Geophysics
Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mike@fc.hp.com (Mike McNelly)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Organization: Colorado Language Lab
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.6 PL6]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:24:39 GMT

jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
: My wife had pretty bad reaction to altitude (at around 8500) and I'm
: trying to remember what is best in preparation.  I never have problems
: with altitude up to 14000 or so (played bagpipes all though high
: school :) so I didn't pay much attention to that stuff in the past.
: 
: She wants to know routines that will help here prepare best.  Like
: whether swimming is better than running...

Two obvious things that may make a difference:

1.  If your wife smokes, get her to quit.  Smoking puts lots of carbon
monoxide into the bloodstream which permanently disables red blood cells
until they are replaced by the body.  In my old pilot training days of
the Air Force, they estimated that smoking increased a person's
effective altitude by as much as 5,000 feet.

2.  Alcohol in the blood reduces your brain's ability to absorb oxygen
from the bloodstream, thereby also increasing the body's effective
pressure altitude.  Therefore, avoid drinking before or during trips at
higher altitudes.

Mike McNelly
mike@fc.hp.com
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1993 10:52:15 PST
From: <GJM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
 <C0p9p5.Dus@fc.sde.hp.com>

might I offer my $0.02 worth....

1) AS is a toxic buildup problem, not an aerobic problem

2) if one forces one's body's cell to operate (metabalize) w/
   insufficient O2 one generates more and uglier cellular byproducts
   than if with sufficient O2.

3) the easiest way for the body to eliminate these toxins is through
   urination.

what does this mean...

1) if one has to pop to altitude, do it superhydrated and dont spend the
   night up high

2) dont let the heart rate get (at least for me) above 110 bpm - above that
   (whatever your critical heartrate is) the toxic byproducts grow
   faster than linear.

3) piss up a storm - @ 20k' for me, I need to consume 8+ litres of H20 to
   feel well (and dont try to drink it all at one sitting - you'd reduce
   the red-cell density such that you'd passout)

4) don't bother (more than superficially) with P.Hacketts's book and likewise
   'going higher' - they provide a nice overview but only that...  try
   man and altitude by the APA to really understand the AMS process.


what does this all mean to me....

1) my PAR is 22k+, but never AMC, CE or PE or even "ill".

2) my schedule quite offen doesn't allow me a two day weekend... with
   suffient hydration and not pushing it, I routinely do 11-14k' peaks after
   a 4 hr driveup from sealevel...   yes I fell like I'm running on half a
   charge, and I do climb more slowly than if I'd had the time to acclamate,
   but I still get my mtn time and am not sick (or dead) for it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                               +-----+
  Greg Mushial           gjm@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu          |     |
  SLAC, MS 97                                                  |     |
  2575 Sand Hill Rd                                            |     |
  Menlo Park, CA  94025  (415) 926.3772             --------->  \      \
                                                                  \      \
  "No government governs like no government"   and/or               \_____|
  "Life begins at 10,000 feet"
--- And of course, my opinions are my own and surely not my employer's --------
From: cindy@kolob.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Cindy Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:34:43 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

Hi folks,
Some friends and I are headed to Mt. Washington (New Hampshire) on January 16th
to take a peek from the top.
I just wanted to know what the general conditions have been, 
e.g. lots of snow, wind, etc.

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks
Cindy

-->>>>cnorman@bellcore.com
(ignore whatever return address this crummy news reader of mine puts at the top..sorry)
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Altitude sickness summary was Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:43:23 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan10.014048.46271@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> My wife had pretty bad reaction to altitude (at around 8500) and I'm
> trying to remember what is best in preparation.  I never have problems

Well, I certainly got a variety of responses that are all greatly
appreciated.  It might be good if basic discussions like this were in
a FAQ.  BTW, of course there's no quick fix but other than acclimation
(which usually we don't have *time* for) addequate fluid intake, a
non-asprin tylenol every 1000 feet or so, and of course the *absense*
of alchohol and tabaco in your system.

Although a consensus on the subject doesn't seem to exist Aerobic
activity will not necessarily affect your reaction to high altitute.
If it is a factor it is so only in the regard that if the body is in
better shape it will be stressed less when doing aerobic activity like
climbing which may lessen your likelyhood or the severity of your
reaction to altitiude.

Again thanks to all who replied.
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
             Enlightenment Happens?
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:45:10 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


In article 16146@cbnews.cb.att.com, ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
> In article <29521@optima.cs.arizona.edu> evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans) writes:
> >Altitude sickness is wierd and very difficult to anticipate or prevent.  The
> >best preventitive measure is good physical conditioning (regardless of the 
> >activity).  
> 
> Sorry, but this is not true.  I have always gotten altitude sickness
> while skiing at 9,000 ft, despite always being in top physical
> condition.  In fact, doctors in Colorado report that the group most
> likely to develop altitude sickness is young active males, probably
> because they are likely to exert themselves the most.
> 
> >I have never heard of anyone getting altitude sickness at 8500 ft
> >before, although I guess it's possible.
> 
> I have developed symptoms at 5,000 ft, and others develop symptoms at
> even lower altitudes.  See the recent Scientific American article for
> more details.  In summary, the physiology of altitude sickness is not
> well understood.
> 
> >  To what extent did the sickness 
> >develop (ie:headache, nausea, edema).  It may have been something else, such
> >as food poisoning or flu, but mistaken for altitude sickness.
> >
> >If possible, a time-proven technique is gradual acclimation.  Just go to a set
> >altitude (say 7500 ft) and sit for a few days.  Then move up and sit some more.
> 
> Going to 7,500 ft immediately is rather brash.  It will work for some 
> people, but others (myself included) will get sick.
> 
> >Obviously, the problem with this technique is that it is time-consuming and
> >a real drag.
> >One method I strongly discourage is the use of medicines to offset the effects
> >of altitude.  These are diuretics, and can therefore increase the possibility
> >of dehydration.  Very, very scary.
> >
> >On the other hand, you might not want to worry about it.  I have had mild
> >altitude sickness at 10,000 feet, and have been fine climbing for sea level
> >to 19,000 ft.  Sometimes it happens, sometimes it don't!!
> 
> Caution is the key: slow acclimatization, hydration, and descent at the
> first symptoms.
> 
> John_Ampe@att.com


There's a homeopathic (please, don't start a pro/con homeopathy argument
on this newsgroup) remedy that is reported to server as a prophalactic
and abortive treatment for altitude sickness.

I would be very interested in hearing results from anyone who wanted
to try it.

I believe it's homeopathic coca, but this shouldn't be confused with
coca leaf, which is a local remedy used by natives of different regions.
The homeopathic coca would be greatly dilluted.

Greg
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Beef jerky recipes revisited
From: moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca (Richard Moynes)
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:25:12 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: moynes_r

So am I the only one who got a food dehydrator for xmas?  I know that beef 
jerky recipes were discussed here a while back, so rather than clog up the
net.arteries with more beef jerky talk maybe someone could email their list
to me.

Thanks,

Richard    "It's beef jerky time!" - Eddie Murphy in Trading Places

-- 

Richard Moynes                             Not speaking for
moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca                    Dofasco Inc., Hamilton, Ont.
From: RiViT@cup.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bay Area Skiing?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:23:42 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

> My ambition is to tlemark down from the the "Big Dish"
> on the hill above Stanford.  Then the rest of my life i can say "I
> skiied Stanford".

Hmm... never seen snow down that far in Palo Alto (I work underneath
the dish, basically).  But, I can say, there is some <intense> mountain
bike trails up there!!!
From: mahoney@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Keith Mahoney  ECE-Under)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:07:49 GMT
Organization: Ohio University C.S. Dept, Athens


I'd normally 'n' right over this if I wasn't so shocked to see the
booming metropolis of Nampa, ID, mentioned here.  One slight correction
(not that I reeeally believe any of you are going to seek the front door
of this place):


In article <44392@fibercom.COM> dwm@roanoke.fibercom.com (Dave Minnich) writes:
>
>I'd recommend Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics.  I've only dealt with them once, but
>they were very helpful, and they have anything you might dream of in terms of
>outdoor fabrics (cordura, packcloth, lycra, neoprene, goretex, etc.).  They may
>be contacted at:
>
>	Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics
>	2511 Latah Drive

       16195 Latah Drive

>	Nampa, ID  83651
>	(208)466-1602
>
>--dave


--Dale 

dmahoney@vax.micron.com
Ah, a vast expanse with no .sig!!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:26:29 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <4562@cvbnetPrime.COM> padams@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) writes:
>From article <1iihk1INNiju@usenet.pa.dec.com>, by klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee):
>> |>   how does one find out about trips offered by the local chapters?
>> 
>> They are listed in the chapter newsletter, sent to all chapter members.
>> 
>   is it possible to get a chapter newsletter without being a member?

Sure.  I subscribe to a couple of chapters and wouldn`t consider joining
the organization again.  The Club is just a Washington DC lobbying 
organization favoring more government regulation and opposing all market
incentives, and provides no benefits to members.

	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.
From: evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Best kind of stove for Turkey?
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:55:06 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

I was not attempting to cast aspersions upon the Kurdish people (or anyone else
for that matter).  I just felt it would be a shame to get all the way to Ankara
only to find the militia blocking all roads east.  Things like that have happendto me and they can be frustrating and expensive.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:47:38 GMT

In article <4562@cvbnetPrime.COM> padams@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) writes:
>From article <1iihk1INNiju@usenet.pa.dec.com>, by klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee):
>> |>   how does one find out about trips offered by the local chapters?
>> 
>> They are listed in the chapter newsletter, sent to all chapter members.
>> 
>   is it possible to get a chapter newsletter without being a member?

Sometimes.
The policy depends on the chapter.  It is not a national policy.
In LA you can buy the quarterly schedule without being a member.
You can attend most trips, although non-members may be charged more.
Some of the groups will send a sample newsletter.
Many groups will let you suscribe to the group newsletter without being a
Sierra member.

I suggest calling or visiting your local chapter for preliminary info.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 08:20:10 GMT

In article <1if0efINNrg2@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>
pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
>that they could share?
>Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and exciting.

Friends lead some of those trips.  I neither endorse nor decry these trips,
but a friend who attended one had a particular set of complaints.  I have the
records for the 1991 Outings budget.  Reasonable is certainly in the eye of
the beholder.  Slightly, more than 1/2 of what you pay for is non-field
related. 35% goes to publicity alone and 25% goes to leader insurance.

>my last trip, my wife accused me of leading a death march (well, the first day
>was a little much :-)).

Hey, I can relate.
Remember when the bear comes, you only have to walk faster than your wife.

>Suggestions on value, leaders (ones to stay away from or good leaders), 
>general trip info, etc.?  

You will find leaders whom you wil both like and don't like.  It's more a
reflection of individual disposition and expectation than simple leadership.
And similiarly leaders look at participants in the same way.  I pity
some of the leaders for their participants.

>Also, what is an average age for participants?  The local chapter is mostly 
>40+ (nothing wrong with that) and don't have a lot in common with late-20yr
>olds.

The distribution tends to be bi-modal, a classic example of bad parametric
statistics, the youth trips take lots of people, then come the 40+s who
can afford trips.  As you note: fewer in between for reasons for money,
time, etc.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10001 rec.photo:23196
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: backpacking with medium format cameras
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:40:31 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1iharcINNhmj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bu890@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Segal) writes:
>
>No big mountains around here...but when hiking I carry my Hasselblads in a
>Lowe-Pro Phototrekker...it works just fine.

Well, we *do* have some big mountains around here (Colorado) - I also carry
a Hassy with no problems.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sutton@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Rich Sutton)
Subject: Re: North Face sleeping bags /PAcks
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 15:41:13 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1993Jan6.001458.10684@macc.wisc.edu> pburke@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Burke, MIC, 608-263-7744) writes:
>
>Exactly.  The profit margins seem to be quite extreme on high-end gear 
>(which is why is still don't own the winter bag I want)

Actually the margin is the same for high-end gear as it is for less
fancy gear. The margin is typically 40%: what costs $100 retail costs
$60 wholesale. This is pretty standard for outdoor retail.

>
>The problem with the outlet stores is that they never get any of the 
>really good stuff in: for 1 1/2 years I have tried to buy a NF Mountain 
>Jacket at outlet prices, but they never get one in! A lot f the stuff at 
>the outlet is actually not NF brand, but some kind of cheaper name of 
>much lwer grade gear.  Pretty disapointing if you want to buy lots of 
>fancy NF gear - call before you drive a long distance to these outlets!
>

The Mtn. Jacket is a HOT seller. They can virtually sell all they make at 
retail. Deals can be found on other high-end gear though: I've seen Ibex
sleeping bags, VE-25 tents, Brooks Range parkas, Extreme Gear skiwear
(off colors), etc. all marked down.

Outlet shopping is like pearl diving. You've got to rake through a lot of 
muck before you find a pearl. That's part of the fun.
From: jlykset@eis.calstate.edu (Jon D. Lyksett)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Food Dehydrators and Food for Backpacking
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:24:30 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

A good way to re-hydrate food is to put it into a wide mouth bottle at
lunch time with the requisite amount of water and put it in your pack to
absorb water on your way to the day's stopping place.
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:30:15 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <11111@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>,
hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <29623@optima.cs.arizona.edu> evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans) writes:
>>This is interesting. I have never been one for homeopathic medicines, but AS
>>might be a good example of where homeopathic medicines are uniquely suited.
>>I'm taking a team of 12 Venture Boy Scouts to 11,000 feet (they are aclimatized
>>to 4800 ft) in March and would be willing to do a field test (assuming their
>>parents don't object).  A few questions:
>
>>1.  What is the physiological effect of coca?
>>2.  Are there side effects?
>>3.  How can I get the medicines?
>>4.  What dosage?
>>5.  How do I set the test up so that it is scientificaly valid?

Coca?  Take enough and you may still have AS but you just wont care!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dsheehan@whsun5.whoi.edu (Daniel Sheehan)
Subject: More on Mt Washington in Winter
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: NOAA-NMFS
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 14:02:10 GMT

There are a host of winter accidents on Mt Washington described in the latest
Appalachia (Journal of the Appalachian Mtn Club - 12-15-92).  One accident
was fatal.  Look for the descriptions and analysis in the Notes/Accidents
section.  These make great reading and are often instructive though learning
ought to include more than reading.

On an unrelated note, the Notes/Alpina section of the above mentioned journal
includes a zillion references from a journal/magazine called MOUNTAIN.  My
library and local bookstores don't have this, does anyone know where I can 
find an address for Mountain?

--
daniel
dsheehan@whsun1.wh.whoi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Reply-To: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:04:41 GMT

ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
>evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans) writes:
>
>>Altitude sickness is wierd and very difficult to anticipate or prevent.  The
>>best preventitive measure is good physical conditioning (regardless of the 
>>activity).  
>
>Sorry, but this is not true.  I have always gotten altitude sickness
>while skiing at 9,000 ft, despite always being in top physical
>condition.  In fact, doctors in Colorado report that the group most
>likely to develop altitude sickness is young active males, probably
>because they are likely to exert themselves the most.

I think there is truth in what both of you say.  Physical
conditioning will not save you from altitude illness if you exert
yourself.  But a physically fit person can move more efficiently than
an unfit person, thus reducing exertion.  In my experience, less
exertion reduces the effect of altitude.

Ultimately, I think a big advantage can be gained from good
technique, whether it be hiking, climbing, or skiing.  Good technique
combined with physical fitness yields efficient movement.  Pacing is
one element of good technique.

					--Lowell Skoog
					  Seattle, Washington
From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:03:01
Organization: BBN, Interzone Office
Reply-To: ncramer@bbn.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: allen@tessi.com's message of Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:52:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.235229.25539@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:

   cindy@kolob.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Cindy Lee) writes:

   >Hi folks,
   >Some friends and I are headed to Mt. Washington (New Hampshire) on January 16th
   >to take a peek from the top.
   >I just wanted to know what the general conditions have been, 
   >e.g. lots of snow, wind, etc.

   Going to Mr. Washington in the summertime is best recommended.  In January, I
   would have extremely STRONG reservations having anyone go to the top.

   I have no idea as to the experience level of you and your friends, but the
   tone of your posting suggests a casual approach about climbing to the top.
   Due to the usual high winds and unpredictable storms which can blow up without
   a moment's notice, I would strongly, STRONGLY recommend that you please NOT
   go to the top.  There is a lot of danger up there this time of year.

   allen

FYI, the relevant portion of the weather report in today's [7JAN]
Boston Globe reads:

MT WASHINGTON
7 p.m.  EDT weather: dense fog;
wind: W 46-53 m.p.h.; tempera-
ture: 11; maximum: 17; minimum:
8; precipitation: none; snow depth:
none.

Concerning variability, we (drove) up MtW while taking my mother on
the standard NE leaf-peeping trip when she was here for visit during
the first week of Oct a couple years ago.  The weather --as posted on
the sign at the top-- was easy to remember: Wind: 50mph; Temp: 50dg;
Visibility: 50ft.  We checked the paper when we got home two days
later and found that it was then -2 and under 6in of snow.

If you just want to get the top, a totally different option would be
to take the cog-railroad.  I don't know if they run in the winter, but
that would certainly make getting there top a _lot_ safer.

N

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry