From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Effort vs clinging on the spiritual path
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:37:49 -0800
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Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Roger writes:

> The ego _is_ the problem. Throw the dog a bone and it will leave you alone.
> The techniques of meditation keep the mind from bothering you so that you
> can experience deeper and deeper realization without obstructions.

			....
			
> ... But it is faulty logic to equate "not seeking" with "finding".
> Christ understood the dilemma of the ego-rule that most of us are slaves
> to. Even though he said that the kingdom is within, he also said "seek, and
> you will find". He did not say that since the kingdom is already within us
> that we need not do anything in order to abide fully in it. He said that
> "harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few". He is saying that the
> treasures are within us, but most do not make the effort to find it within
> (ie. remove the obstructions covering this kingdom such as our own 
> indifference or laziness) so they go on being deluded. The ego-consciousness
> is actively obstructing our realization of who we really are - it works
> full time, 24 hours a day (if you let it) to maintain this delusion. If
> you go with the flow, you will remain deluded. A diamond covered with mud
> looks like a mudball, acts like a mudball, and for all intents and purposes,
> _is_ a mudball. One must do what is necessary to remove the mud from the
> diamond that is preventing the diamond from fully manifesting itself.

			....

> If, as the story you quoted implied, that all you need to do is to let go,
> and this letting go requires, as you say, absolutely no effort of any kind,
> then we all should be in nirvana, since letting go is something that we all
> have experienced from time to time, and it surely (if you are correct) would
> not take any practice or iteration in order for us to be fully enlightened. 
> Since this has not occurred, I conclude that effort is required here :-)

			....
			

	Magnificent portrayal of our existence.
	An excellent point of view; true [since anyone may verify the
	                                  truth of what roger writes.]
	
	Some questions [not to answer but to ponder about]:
	
	
		* Points of views are points of views.
		
		  Can a part be the whole?
		
		  Yes, all parts can be said to be of God and may
		       reflect God's truth to a small or large extent,
		
		  But could all parts combined together make [The] God?
		
		  As Ramana once said: World is God but God is not the
		  World.
		
		* Is it that one sees this, and some more, that, and some
		  more, and then without seeing sees that all of this, and
		  all of that, however infinite, are merely aspects of
		  the same - One and Only One God? 
		
 		  If ego is there [or devil], can it be created by another
                  entity [entity other than God]?
		  
		  If so, then God is not God!
		
		* Could the diamond, the dust on the diamond, and the
		  process of removal of the dirt be all God's aspects
		  [but not separate from God]?
		
		  If anything could exist separate from God,
		  then God is not God!
		
		* Could the effort, the effort maker, and the object of
		  the effort all be God's aspects?
		
		* Could realization and non-realization, both, not be
		  God's aspects?
		
		* Could the thief, the police(wo)man, the robber,
		  the prosecutor, the murderer, the murdered,
		  the defense attorney, the judge, the jury,
		  the hang(wo)man be all God ['s aspects]?
		
		* Could the disciple, the guru, the ignorant, the gyani,
		  the gods, be the same?
		
		* Could it be that nothing exists but Nirvana?
		
		* Could it all be God's play?		

---raj