HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Keywords: Attack the idea, not the person
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:47:29 GMT

In article <10667547.124.715418012@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG) writes:
>If this thread is going to continue, perhaps people would attack ideas,
>flame statements instead of calling each other boneheads, knuckleheads,
>other four letter words, you sleep with your mother/brother/sister/dog and 
>other such insults.

But Jim, that would take all of the fun out of it!  All of the Atari dudes
who post here act like little kids on a pirate BBS, so why not treat them
as such?  If you'll notice, the only people who pay them any attention at
all are the ones who are flaming them, so if you don't like it, just ignore
it.  This group is anything but serious and to take it as anything else
is just plain silly.

>Your argument looks rather weak when you need to attack the other person.

It also looks rather boring if you don't.  :-)

>Regards,
>
>Jim (when's a comp.sys.atari.advocacy going to start?)

Is it worth starting a new group for a dead machine?

>Follow-ups to comp.sys.atari.tech

>Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 20:12:13 GMT

In article <kdarling.714814819@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>
>Rumors say that he also told the dealers that the Falcon won't be available
>in quantity in the US until early next year... which means few sales over
>the Christmas season; a blow to dealers.

Some people getting rumors from CALL-A-PSYCHIC but truth will be know
October-November in America. In Delphi report Sam Tramiel said he checked
Falcon factory and they are making MANY Falcons now. Falcons going
to Europe first because more poeple using Atari there.

>
>What I'm wondering is who will sell it?  I'm interested in looking at one,
>but we haven't had an Atari ST dealer here in the Raleigh, NC area in years...
>and I'm sure that goes for most of the US.

Many THOUSANDS of music dealers in America so millions of people can take
5 minute drive to buy Falcons. Mail order dealer can send you Falcon
nextday mail too! Many Amiga dealers get big profit from selling Falcon
than A600 so they will carry it for sure.



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:07:41 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article  jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>
>> I didn't realize "duct tape" was an OS.  What machine does it run on?
>
>    The Universe. It holds it together. CF: light side/dark side
>    theory.
>
>    I assume you understand my point here. If you don't, say so and
>    I'll try to dumb it down some more.
>

Oh yeah.  You said, "Comparing OS/2 to AmigaOS is just like comparing
duct tape to AmigaOS."  Please, John, don't "dumb it down" anymore.  It's
dumb enough as it is.

>
>    Why did you delete my paragraph about AUTOCONFIG? What's wrong
>    with you?
>

Because your paragraph about AUTOCONFIG had nothing to do with the
discussion.

>
>*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 15:45:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.145227.22260@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>
>Well, paying $700 for a 386sx BridgeBoard just doesn't make sense when a
>486 motherboard can be had for $400.  Desoldering the 386sx and installing
>a Cyrix chip makes even less sense for the average user.  Besides, lots of DOS
>software requires such strict hardware compatibility that I just wouldn't
>trust using such a non-standard PC.  There are already enough compatibility
>issues among the several standard motherboard manufacturers that are out there.

	I'll jump in here for a moment.

	I haven't seen anywhere near this level of "strict hardware
compatibility" problem in the PC world. I have run a few pretty non
standard machines here (some would call them a crime against nature
:-) and both ISC Unix and Windows have run on them just fine.

-- 
+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
|  Please send email for detailed product or catalogue information!  |ature
|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus
|---NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody!---|V3.2
|              Original contents are Copyright (c)1992               |1992!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Zorro III cards?
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:41:43 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development

In article <1992Aug27.022627.8267@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.025236.2140@grebyn.com> richk@grebyn.com
>(Richard Krehbiel) writes:
>
>>There are Zorro III cards available?  What are they?
>
> o Ameristar 1600GX
> o DMI Vivid 24
>
>Mark

PP&S ProRAM 3000
PP&S Rambrandt
 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
> = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet!starpt!doiron     (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Industry News
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:17:21 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1992Aug29.213758.20767@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.183204.25177@nntp.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
>>
>>GAME MAKER POSTS 2ND QUARTER LOSS
>>(The Register-Guard, Eugene, OR, August 29, 1992, p. 7B)
>>
>>   SUNNYVALE, Calif. - Atari Corp. lost $39.7 million during the second
>>quarter, largely because of charges stemming from a reorganization, the 
>>computer and video game company said Friday.
>
>You not telling REST OF THE STORY! Atari spending more for ads around     
>the world and R&D delivering Falcon 030, Falcon 040 and Jaguar 32+32!

You not have BRAIN!  Atari is spending their last pennies because there
is not hope for a company with such a pitiful product line.  Their only
hope is that enough morons like you will buy into their lies.

>Big news is Lynx Batman game sold 2 MILLION in very short time and
>30 MORE games like Lemmings, Eye of the Beholder, Shadow of Beast,
>Steel Talons coming out soon and will sell many MILLIONS more!!

Lnyx Batman?  Is that some sort of cross-breed?  Wow, a flying cat
would be pretty fearsome.  I thought that Atari was sticking with
the names of endangered animals (fitting), not mythical beasts.

>How many Amiga games sold 2 MILLION even in 6 YEARS??! Atari is 
>software and hardware company so BILLION DOLLAR payoff will come
>next year.  

Sure, and I've got a nice bridge in the desert that I'll sell you...

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:14:35 GMT

doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron) writes:
: How about IFF-24?  Unless people have objections, we can have the collector
: convert them into Hires (16 color) or GIF's, for the beamers.  That should
: cover all bases.  If there is to be any one format, it should be IFF-24 of
: some flavor.

24-bit is overdoing it.  I'd say 8, personally.  Both for size,
display concerns, and conversion speed.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(: "...and here's Clinton giving the correct spelling of bong-resin..."  :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 80,000,000 pc's can't be wrong
Date: 29 Aug 92 15:10:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>PCs did have a head start.  I wouldn't be so proud of an original IBM PC
>today, but I might of an A1000.

>Amiga missed the 'business' market.  That is the heart of computer uses today.
>All the rest follows.

>Is it completely true that the fierce competition between clone dealers is
>what makes PCs attractive.  This is what has made the Amiga a flop in terms
>of sales.

>Your post is curious.. I feel an attitude of defending the Amiga's lousy sales
>by pointing out some reasons why they are lousy..is that supposed to change
>my mind about the Amiga?

Oh my goodness... I read this article... and reread it 3-4 times!!!
I couldn't believe my eyes!!! Dan... a famous TKKC member actually--
actually said good things about the Amiga!!!! :) :) :) :)

(joke aside... serious stuff comes in)

Dan, I appreciate your fair-mindness.  I don't mind if people occasionally 
bash the Amiga, C=... as long as they realise the merit of the computer,
(hey, I do this lots of times myself)

and not to deny its validity.  The reason why I got so upset with you before :)
was you *never* said anything good about the Amiga--though you claimed
you liked the machine.  Every time someone said something good about the
Amiga, you would jump up and say something like: big deal, IBM clones can
do it--cheaper!

BTW, I hope you are not offended by my posting here.  I just want to thank
you--thank you for at least giving the Amiga a chance.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin

                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
/____________________________________________________________\_____/________\
|  Kelvin    /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)______|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Do you see a doll? a beast?     |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |                                  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |  There are always more than one  |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) |  side to any story...            |
 \______________________________________/ \________________________________/
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:50:18 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <52918@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>>   Mr. Barney also goes on state facts that are simply wrong.  He states
>>>that there are about 1000 Amiga dealers in the U.S., and there can't
>>>possibly be this many....
>
>	Gee... Barney states a fact, and Marc brilliantly refutes it
>by saying it "can't possibly" be true.  What a debate champion Marc
>would make.  Read on....

It's his standard technique.  After a flame-bait subject, Marc goes on
to make up a few 'facts' then follows it with a flaming conclusion
that is completely unsupported by either his subject or his
'facts'.  The AmigaWorld review is a perfect case in point.

AmigaWorld compared the VGA version of Links with the Amiga version.
Marc flames because they didn't compare using the SVGA version
(the VGA version is still for sale, btw), invents a lower price for
the SVGA version, then uses it as a jumping off point for
a prediction that Amiga games are dead.

(Interestingly enough, no where has Marc said he's played any of
 the three games;  apparently this is based entirely on screen shots
 printed in magazines;  I doubt many game players would accept
 that as the criteria for judging the quality of a game)

>
>>Gosh, that's already TWICE as many Nebraska Amiga dealers as you claim,
>>Marc.
>
>	Don't be too surprised.  Any Marc Barrett sentence that begins
>"I know for a fact..." has a 65% chance of being wrong.  Remember a few
>months ago when he stated "facts" about Amigas in Finland, only to be
>blasted into reality by Netters actually FROM Finland who knew the truth?
>One in a series... collect them all!

Marc's big mistake here was inventing a 'fact' that someone could actually
verify.  So he got caught, and was forced to switch to his second line
of defense "Someone told me, yeah, that's the ticket.  I was told the
wrong number, but what I said was still true, even though its now completely
unsupported by any actual data, even made up data."  

I still think his hobby is flaming.  He can't be like that in real life.


>                                                        Dan

		andy
-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"OS/2 is the operating system for the next thousand great applications." -
 one of the things Bill Gates probably wishes he hadn't said.


Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
From: thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I would expect in a clone these days...
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:01:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Aug28.061816.5875@clipper.ingr.com>, kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
> I mentioned the Tandy Sensation in an earlier post for a good reason.
> It is the first attempt to truly raise the standard of pc's from
> a patchwork quilt of add-on cards into a fully integrated system.

That's the beauty of PC's.  If you don't want all the bells and whistles,
then you don't order them.  If you want them, you merely ask the 
manufacturer to pre install them.  And even a plain PC is integrated
in the sense that all the components are tied together and you can
use them.  Maybe there is no sound card, but not everyone wants one, etc.

> For a first attempt, it wasn't that bad. The exception I noted was
> the slow 486 (25MHz) and only 3 16 bit slots. You would have thought

You call 486-25 slow.  This machine would run multimedia very nicely
under OS/2.  Wouldn't a 486-25 be roughly comparable to any 68030
running at 25 mHz?  Isn't that the top of the line for Amigas (or is
there a 040 Amiga out)?

> 32 bits slots at the minimum. People knocked this machine without
> looking at it from my perspective. What I see is the eventual
> perhaps inevitable path all Intel-based machines will travel. 
> For a first attempt, this system matches the fabled Jaguar's specs
> almost exactly, except it adds a CD-ROM.
> 
> If I were an Intel-fan(atic?), I think this is the direction I'd
> like to see things go. Integrated sound, built-in midi, built-in
> CD-ROM, all already configured and ready to run with the latest OS.
> 

Intel-fans can already have this and have been getting this for a 
while now.  All they have to do is choose.

[ test deleted ]
> 
>                                        Thorne Kontos
>  

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Charles A. Thompson               |  thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
|  University of Kansas              |  thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
|  _Avid_ SkiBum                     |  OS/2 2.0 is for YOU!!!               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Look for Recipe Pro(tm), an interactive recipe database, coming soon...   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek)
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:58:33 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   Since it is obvious that you have not seen Links 386 Pro, just take my
>challenge: pull out the issues of Discover and AmigaWorld that I mentioned, 
>open them to the pages I mentioined, and compare the screen shots head-to-
>head, then tell me with a straight face that I am wrong.  I most certainly 
>am not.

	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Oh this is
rich. From the creator of the "CDTV is DEAD" thread. What you are doing is
comparing the ability of Amigaworld and Discover to repoduce screen shots.
You are not comparing the games. Someone tells you that they have seen it
on THE COMPUTERS! And you still stick to your guns with SCREEN SHOTS REPODUCED
IN A MAGAZINE. Get real looser.

James
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 29 Aug 92 19:39:51 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Aug28.080911.3788@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 	Most computer books I have read consider VM a last resort.  Why?

Because they're bogus books? Good VM allows a lot more efficient use of the
system, by only including the working set of running processes in memory. Code
that's not used (say, for functions you never excersize in a given run) is
never even read from disk.

Don't let the abysmal state of DOS fool you into ignoring really useful
features.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:13:49 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <mykes.0dbb@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>It would have been nice if a USEFUL notepad application shipped with 2.0x.
>Every doc file for every PD program and even the readme's for commercial
>apps SHOULD be done in NotePad, IMO.  Food for thought.
>

I disagree.  All Notepad brought to the party was font sensitivity
in the document.  Much more useful for distributing docs would be
a hypertext display engine.  Notepad was a toy;  it could be useful, but
not as useful as something designed for the purpose.

>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)

			andy


-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"OS/2 is the operating system for the next thousand great applications." -
 one of the things Bill Gates probably wishes he hadn't said.


Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:07:56 GMT

In article <9VHJqB10w164w@uuisis.isis.org> mskaff@uuisis.isis.org (Mark Skaff) writes:
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
>> I guess someone will proceed to tell me that the Amiga has more colors...
>
>But it doesn't... Amiga has 64 colour in 320x200 and 16 in hi-res. It does, 
>however, have its HAM, which, in my opinion, would hardly classify/compare 
>with the wonderful true 256 colours on a VGA card.

In my opinion, it does.  At the same resolution (320x200), anyway.  Have you
ever seen a lores 256 colour VGA image?  Possibly not - when people rave about
viewing GIFs on a PC, they're talking about SVGA (and well they might - I
haven't seen a VGA-only PC in quite a while).  Anyway, if you do see a 320x200
VGA image, after viewing 640x480 or better SVGA, you'll be appalled at the
chunkiness.  It's the low resolution, not the colour limitations, of HAM that
makes it look so much worse than SVGA.

Nevertheless, HAM can look suprisingly good, if it's been converted from a
24-bit original.   Those "wonderful true 256 colours on VGA" aren't what the
rest of us call "true colour".  The 256 colours are chosen from an 18-bit
(262,144 colour) palette - this is called colour indirection.  These colours
must be carefully chosen, then dithered to approximate the original colour of
each pixel.  For this to work, you need a high enough resolution that the
dithering isn't apparent.  At 320x200, it's horribly obvious.  So, HAM can
stand up fairly well to an 8-bit display if both are converted from the same
24-bit true-colour source.

Where HAM normally looks really bad compared to VGA is when it's been
converted from a GIF.  The GIF is only 8-bit, and is only an approximation
of the original image.  The HAM image ends up being an approximation of an
approximation - no wonder it's less than ideal!

So, before you dismiss HAM, consider where the images are coming from.  If
they're only converted GIFs, you're putting it at an unfair disadvantage.

Of course, this discussion is irrelevant - HAM8 at 800x600 is going to blow
SVGA well out of the water...


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore meltdown?! 
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 01 Sep 92 11:54:31 GMT
 du.edu><1992Aug27.172530.9352@microsoft.com><1992Aug29.210917.19967@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu's message of Sat, 29 Aug 92 21:09:17 GMT

>>>>> On Sat, 29 Aug 92 21:09:17 GMT, jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) said:

> In article <1992Aug27.172530.9352@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>>>Big NEWSFLASH over week said Commodore went into MELTDOWN and
>>     ^^^^^^^^^
>>Cite your source boy! Where did you get this "information"?
>>C= did experience a loss this year, but then again who didn't?

> Business new reporter with GREASY HAIR told news of Commodore meltdown.
> Everyone asking HOW C= going to make new AA Amiga/CDTV if Engineering
> and CDTV heads missing?  No news of replacement heads.

Once upon a time I thought jyoung was a spoof, like Slu Aspics.
Then I thought he was real, and a bozo.
Now I think he's real, but someone else is forging messages from
him making him look even more of a bozo than he really is.

Anyone out there know the truth?
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."