HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Clinton/"We Will Stand"
From: bproden@ualr.edu
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:03:38 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

Brothers and sisters,

I knew I was opening a hornets' nest when I posted my original message;
however, I didn't know there were Africanized bees in there too.

My original intent in posting was to protest the reworking of a song meant to
give honor to God into a song for giving honor to a man.  Some people didn't
hear the song, while others claimed I was hearing things wrong and it was
another song.  One person didn't even know what artist I was talking about 
(check the Grammy and Dove awards for best Christian male vocalist for 
several years, as well as late 70's Imperials albums).  However, some people
posted and said they heard it too, so I stand by that part of my post.

I was so upset over that issue that I let some other feelings spill over.  I'm
sorry if I offended anyone.  As I said in my original post, I don't believe
Bush was necessarily God's anointed.  And I didn't mean to imply that God's
judgment will fall on America because Clinton was elected.  I believe God's
judgment was already coming because America has turned away from 
morality.  We were already headed downhill.  I just happen to believe that the
slope will steepen a little now.

Maybe I didn't do my signature as usual on my original post, but it usually
indicates that I am from Little Rock, AR.  If I omitted this, I'm sorry, you 
had no way of knowing.  If it was on my original post, my detractors should
have paid attention to that fact and recognized that I was speaking as a person
who has lived under Bill Clinton's policies, not as a person who equates
Christianity with being a Republican.  I have my own problems with the 
Republican party (especially in environmental/endangered species areas, since
I am an animal lover -- but not the "no research" kind).  We need to address 
the problems of hunger and illiteracy in our world (I do think these areas
have more meaning when it is done willingly out of love by a group of
believers than when is is just another government program funded by forced
contributions -- but if the church falls down here, then government must
step in if anything is to be done).  I'll be the first to
proclaim that we will never have a perfect government as long as man is in
control.  Only when Christ sets up His earthly kingdom will everything be as
it should.

To those who posted or sent e-mail in support, thank you.  You are greatly
appreciated.

To those who disagreed with me, I'm sorry for not making myself clearer and
for letting myself get carried away.  

To those who attacked me, whether in this forum or in e-mail, I forgive you.
I love you in Christ.

To those whom I may have offended, please forgive me.  I'm just as human as
anyone and don't claim otherwise.

Brian Roden
Leisure Arts, Inc.
Little Rock, AR
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:51:35 GMT

ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:

>I think the primary difference in our approach to such things is that
>I think it's possible to find something genuinely good and worthwhile
>in the non-Christian works, even while I disagree with some or all
>of their basic premises.  You think (at least I believe you do)
>that the non-Christian (worldly) nature of the works automatically
>disqualifies them from worth and merit.  

What I don't get is _why_ you would want to even bother with something
whose "major premise" you disagree with.  I'm not advocating hiding
from the world, but I don't have to read a book by a New Age author
to understand the New Age.  About all I care to know about Neitshke (sp)
is that he was an atheist, therefore, I know his reasoning is going to
lead me away from God.  Do I need to know anything else?  That he was
brilliant?  Yes, but brilliant and in hell.
>                                   |
>                                   |
>                  Bad Message/     |        Good Message/
>                    Good Art       |          Good Art
>                                   |
>              ---------------------+-------------------------- 
>                                   |
>                  Bad Message/     |        Good Message/
>                    Bad Art        |          Bad Art
>                                   |


I would take anything on the right hand side.  I believe God cares about
our heart.  If I am , say, a mediocre musician (and I am), but I 
decide to produce an album to the glory of God anyway, what do you 
think God will joy in more: my somewhat poor (but wholehearted)
attempt to pleasE him, or some incredibly talented musician (like 
Eddie Van Halen) who does it all for himself?  I think  God would 
rather have my work than Eddie's.  That's why I reject the left side
of your equation.  It profits me nothing if I drive up in a Mercedes
Benz if I fill it up with diseased flesh.  It's not the vehicle, it's
the driver.

I shouldn't have started responding to this.  I have a meeting I have
to go to.  I'll post to the rest later.

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Your religion is what you
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     do after the sermon is over.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jpeg8496@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey P. Elbel)
Subject: Re: Chasing kangaroos
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:00:21 GMT
Keywords: The Choir

The song moves over various realated ground, like a lot of
Steve's lyrics do.

The c"Chase the Kangaroo" bit is an exagerration of the
"shovel go deep" bit.

He's digging ditches for the "builder guy"  

He's digging so much, that he's going all the way to Australia/

"Bugs Bunny dug to China, I guess I'll go Down Under"

The land down under, as Men At Work taught us all so long
ago, is Australia.

Jeff Elbel
This is my favorite album.  Period.

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: kroth@david.wheaton.edu (Ken Roth)
Subject: Re: Chasing kangaroos
Keywords: The Choir
Organization: Wheaton College, IL
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:28:12 GMT

In article <1dpidlINN6gb@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ddevries@wpi.WPI.EDU (Daniel J. de Vries) writes:
>
>  Does anyone have any clues about what "Chase the Kangaroo" means
>  (from the Choir album with the same name)?  One of my brothers
>  told me that he thought he understood the song once, but has since
>  forgotten what he thought the message was.  I like the sound and many
>  of the songs on the album; but I am curious as to why one should chase
>  kangaroos, or live in Sydney for the remainder of one's life, etc.

Well, the song was in reference to a bugs bunny cartoon in which bugs digs
deep to get away from Elmer Fudd, and ends up digging to the other side of the
world, where he is again chased by a Chinese? hunter.  I heard this directly
from Darrel (sp?) on some video or something.  Go figure...that is the part
'Proud me build holy shrines, and wise men wonder...Bugs Bunny dug to China,
I guess I'll go down under'.  I believe that the song is about the futility
of human desires and money.  I wish I could remember exactly what was said in
the video, but some of it is slipping my mind now.

>  Daniel J. de Vries              |  "The world is a great nursey and
>  Biomedical Engineering Dept.    |  men are children trying to spell
>  Worcester Polytechnic Institute |  'God' with the wrong blocks."
>  Worcester, MA                   |          -- John Foxe

Where is this quote from?

Ken


-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
kroth@wheaton.uucp  ||  uunet!tellab5!wheaton!kroth  ||  They call me Gryfalia  
   "We believe, we believe, 'cause we felt it burning in our hearts"--77's
  "He is no fool who loses what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: drums and worship
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:42:30 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center


Thomas Jer Chen writes:
>   I am a relatively new drummer for our church and would like 
>to generate
>discussion about the use of drums in worship.

Followed by many incl the satirical twisted andrew.j.whitman :-)
>1)  No fifteen-minute solos.
>.....
>10) Wear a shirt.

Followed by what I consider a really good answer by David P. Lovely	
>The solution my current church adopted is an all-electronic kit,
>even the cymbals & hats.  The pads/triggers are hooked into
> a "brain" such as our Allessis D4.  The output can be piped 
>directly into the PA for mixing at an appropriate level.

Amen and amen.  I've heard praise leading in a small church setting,
and accoustic drums just didn't work out.  Overpowered or
underdrummed seemed to be the options.  When I have played there
we haven't used drums and I think that is all in all best.

I am apprenticing or trying out or whatever the right term 
is in a larger, really wonderful church.  They have an all 
electronic drumset, what a blessing!!!!  This allows the 
guitars a bit of freedom in that they don't have to 
"drive the beat" with so much concentration.  I think it adds
richness to the music.  Of course for some songs a drum is not
appropriate.  It is also fun!!!!!!  We decided to try the intro
to You Are Awesome [vineyard] as the ending and liked it so much
we stayed in a loop for about a half hour once :-) :-) Joy.


On a different note: I have truly enjoyed and appreciated Mr. Whitman`s
writings even when I don't agree with his position.
From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:43:28 GMT
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI

Okay, here's something that came up in our Bible study the other night.  We
are to feed on things of God.  I think a serious question people need to ask
themselves is, "do I read the word (or listen to Word-based music) as much
as I read (or listen to) secular books/music.  God says we are to focus on
the things that are of him.  I don't personally have a hard time if someone
pops on, say, some Kansas once in a great while, but when I go into a house
and see scads of worldly books and music hanging around, and no evidence
of Scripture and Sripturally based things, I have to wonder.  Wasn't it
Isaiah said something like "I will proclaim Him when I wake and go to
sleep, when I stand up and when I sit down..." (paraphrase)?

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Your religion is what you
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     do after the sermon is over.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Christmas music recommendations
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.103437.21080@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, flournoy@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Raymond Suke Flournoy) writes:

|>   What Christmas albums do people recommend?

Well, if you want something different, try to find a copy of
"Three Ships" by Jon Anderson.  Yes, it's by THAT Jon Anderson
(pardon the pun), which might give you a hint of what I mean by
"different".

Not only did he choose some uncommon Christmas tunes, he also gave
them a sound that is uniquely Jon.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Your Name Here <NetID@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: looking for a band called Bei Domini?
X-Xxdate: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20: 07:10 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: rta1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:01:39 GMT

>Hey-ho...
>
>I've got a friend who told me about a band called "Bei Domini" (or
something
>like that) which I am still unable to find.  Does anyone know about these
>guys?  It's thrash in the vein of Seventh Angel and Detritus.
The band's called Veni Domini, and their recent album is _Fall Babylon
Fall_.  This album comes highly recommended by my best thrash-master
friend.  Check 'em out.

Todd
From: motto@bucknell.edu (john motto `94)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: PRAYER REQUEST!!!!!!!
Date: 14 Nov 1992 03:41:17 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: algol.cs.bucknell.edu

Hello, all my fellow Christian netters!  I have a request for prayer.  I am
one of the members of the worship team in our Fellowship here at Bucknell.  I
have been having some problems with a lot of the things that are being said/done
and the method in which they are being done.  Probably one of the biggest is
the reluctance to use Catholic praise songs in our weekly worship (i.e. the
Glory & Praise series).  I was raised Catholic, and I can tell you that there
are MANY  A W E S O M E  praise songs in the G&P series.  My request is that
the other members of the team and the rest of the *leaders* (term used lightly
since I don't think there should be "leaders" necessarily in a Fellowship) 
open their minds and hearts to this subject, or else that I realize why they
are being so reluctant.  I'd appreciate it greatly!

Your Brother in Christ Jesus, 

	John       \ | /
                  ___|___   
                     |
                   / | \
                     |
                     |
                 
                             
__________________________________________________________________________________
From: acb@moscom.com (Amy Bourquin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Misc. info
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:46:01 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corporation, Pittsford NY

In article <9231513.10096@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> pdt@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Peter David THOMPSON) writes:
>
>  Just received Change Your World by Michael W. Smith;                       
>  The album itself is not bad; I still prefer i 2 eye of all his albums (I
>haven't heard Christmas, though).                                     
                 ||
                 \/
And you call yourself a Christian ? :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

BUY IT! BUY IT! BUY IT!

This is a wonderful album, with excellent arrangements. One of the songs
from Go West is from this album.             

Peace,
Amy B.

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Phil.Powell@launchpad.unc.edu (Phil Powell)
Subject: Re: looking for a band called Bei Domini?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:49:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.152353.11717@bsu-ucs> 00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>Hey-ho...
>
>I've got a friend who told me about a band called "Bei Domini" (or something
>like that) which I am still unable to find.  Does anyone know about these
>guys?  It's thrash in the vein of Seventh Angel and Detritus.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bruce
>-- 
>.sig?  We don' need no steenkin' .sig!
>
>Bruce Anderson: A tradition of Chaos and Disorder since 1967
>spock@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (unix)	00bwanderson@bsu-ucs.uucp (VAX)
>Don't look at me in that tone of voice!  BSU disclaims me, and I disclaim them.


I don't know of that particular band but I do know of a band called Anno
Domine ... sorry VENI DOMINE on R.E.X. Records...

Phil

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Phil.Powell@launchpad.unc.edu (Phil Powell)
Subject: Re: Joshua.  Anyone?  Anyone?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:39:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.122608.8474@iscsvax.uni.edu> gray4033@iscsvax.uni.edu (Neal Gray) writes:
>It's like this:  I got the Crystavox II album "The Bottom Line" this summer,
>when it suddenly hit me that they are on a different label.  I looked and found
>another band on the label.  Joshua!  Isn't that Tamplin's old band?  Anyone
>heard it?  Does anyone know it exists?  
>                                        Thanks
>
>                                        Neal (gray4033@iscsvax.uni.edu)
>


Joshua was the band Ken Tamplin used to be in 6 years ago before he left
to form Shout with then ex-Idle Cure guitarist Chuck King.. right now Joshua
is not doing anything major although they have changed their name to
Jaguar and their lead singer, Robin Basauri, was the guest vocalist on Die
Happy's debut album, "Die Happy", and also sang a song on "Sanctuary
Praise II"...

Phil

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: cwe34361@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (cE!)
Subject: Re: Is there any "progressive" Christian music?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:28:01 GMT

mdk34398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Beaker) writes:

>cwf50862@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Virtual Benedicta) writes:
>>Alter Boys
>>Children of the Consuming Fire
>>Violet Burning
>>da (Kalhoun)
>>77's
>>the choir (probably the least like them)
>This is alternative stuff. Not progressive.

>Mike Krupicka
>beaker@uiuc.edu
>As a dog returns to his vomit, so does a fool to his folly. -- Solomon

Yeah Mike, but now I notice that he was responding to the note that mentioned
U2 and the Alarm.  But yeah, these bands are not "progressive rock" as defined
in the original post.  Personally, I think I'd call it "art rock" instead of
"progressive."  

>>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning
>>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning
>>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning
>>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning
>>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning >>Violet Burning

IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE VIOLET BURNING, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
Well, everybody should listen to them, anyway.


cE!
christian-e@uiuc.edu
As a fool returns to his folly, so does Mike go to bed too early.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Subject: Re: TANGENT Re: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:18:10 GMT
Reply-To: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, The Netherlands

>>>>> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) (AJW) writes:

AJW> From Webster's Ninth:

AJW> satire - n. 1. a literary work holding up human vices and follies to
AJW> ridicule or scorn  2. trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose 
AJW> and discredit vice or folly

Right. Even the old-testament prophets use satire for this very reason.
Read them.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.ruu.nl>
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: sbradley@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott B Bradley)
Subject: Re: Chasing (the) kangaroos
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:34:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.182450.23459@news.eng.convex.com> moeller@convex.com (Tom Moellering) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.014316.11098@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>
>Yeah CTK captures some of the raw energy that unfortunately was not in as great
>as evidence on Circle Slide.  I am eagerly awaiting the new Choir disc (they
>are supposedly in the studio at present.  Read: only a year or 2 now ;-) in
>hopes that since Sauerberry is back, maybe that energy will be ignited on more
>of the disc.
>
>>If Sydney is my destiny
>>I guess I'll dig until I die
>              ^^^
>>Shovel go deep, heart beat true
>
>Ever notice how there seems to be this continual passing of themes back and
>forth between The Choir and Adam Again? ;-)
>
>How about "Mercy is a silver pearl"?
>
>And what about "Spin You Around" with Gene Eugene backup vocals and Greg Lawless
>guitar effects on Wide-Eyed Wonder?
>
>And what about "Hide Away", written by Steve, but sang by Gene Eugene on
>Homeboys and referrenced in the line 'Baby, come close' on (can't remember
>the song) on Circle Slide.
>
If you're referring to Steve's cross referencing of songs and images
I'm sure you could find as many such allusions as there are Choir songs.
And now that you mention the conspiracy between Gene and Steve, I think
Derri's trying to get involved -- check out his cross referencing on
Scenic Routes (Lost Dogs).  And while we're on the subject, Dan Michaels
did a little of his own on his solo release Reveal --"There's a choir on
fire..."
   I think maybe they all get together and just throw out lines which they
all write down and keep ready-reference in their back pocket when they
need to get that extra phrase into that song that just insn't coming 
together :-)

>"when I revel in peace or glory in war, I always wanted a shirt like Mark wore"
>               The Rifleman / The Choir / Chase The Kangaroo
>Tom (moeller@convex.com) (I had the shirt and a fake winchester to boot ;-)


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Bradley              
sbradley@en.ecn.purdue.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hgs@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Harry Salvini)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:22:06 GMT

In article <nestabro.721489742@nova>, nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
> 
> math1rb@jane.uh.edu (92F07486) writes:
> 
> > Well what I say is let your kid listen to what they want. Take an interest
> >in it, after all he'll listen to it just to spite ya. Like someone once
> >said some of the most christian people they knew weren't Christians.
> 
> Yeah, and if he wants to go out and have sex, buy him condomes.  (Yes, I 
> realize this is sarcasm, and I ask for forgiveness in advance, but 
> Scripture teaches us to "train up our child in the way he should go", not
> let him go out and do what he wants, especially if we know it could be
> harmful.

A couple of years ago, I attended a seminar about music by Al Minccioni (sp?)
at a local church (Fremont, CA Assembly of God).

His talk was very thought provoking in that he mentioned a GAP between the
"older" and "younger" generations.  If I tell my teenager that he can't
listen to some particular music, or can't do something, that will generally
produce some type of rebellion, which won't solve the problem.

On the other hand, as Noel states, when we "train up our child", that must
be done while he is yet a young child, not influenced by the "world".

My suggestion is to go over the music with him/her, reading the words and ask
the question: "is this what you want to live by?", and if so, discuss why you
disagree.

The point is, keep the communication open, don't be a stumbling block in your
kids mind.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| -+-  hgs@wdl1.wdl.loral.com -- Kathy's Hubby & Jonathan's Daddy  O O |
|  |    BTW: LORAL doesn't have anything to do with my opinions.    v  |
|  |               I came up with them all on my own.              \_/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian