From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Hands & Feet
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:37:17 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.16R

In <1993Jan25.124042.17366@ucl.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar)  wrote:
# 
# In article <765363d8093260t280@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C.
# Sessions) writes
# >
# >In <1993Jan19.115544.23973@ucl.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) 
# wrote:
# ># In article <1993Jan14.023336.21784@newsroom.utas.edu.au> Tim O' Neill
# writes
# ># > The guys who put the Septuagint certainly did know what they were doing,
# ># >but most Hebrew scholars disagree with them on this point.
# ># 
# ># Well of course they do!!!
# ># Any Hebrew *scholar* who admits that this line says 'They have pierced my
# ># hands and feet' is then confronted with the challenge that Jesus is the
# ># Messiah. Just as any Jewish *scholar* who admits that Isa 53 is about a
# ># man and not the nation, Israel, is confronted with the same challenge.
# >
# >  OK, Vijay: put up or shut up.  YOU translate 22:16, word for
# >  word, and then show us the (we're sure) entirely reasonable
# >  transformations which get you to your favorite translation.
# >
# >  We're waiting to be enlightened.

  [My .sig and irrelevant NT passage deleted -- dcs]

# Actually, Mr Sessions, I am just halfway through my own research on
# finding out how the variant readings come about.  Before I type up and
# post my research I have a question for you:
# 
# Just what exactly does 'Like a lion, my hands and feet' mean?
# What does it mean in any language of your choice - Hebrew, Aramaic,
# English, Hindustani or Serbo-Croat?
# 
# If your answer is that it means anything other than the description of
# a man whose hands and feet have been disfigured by crucifixion then I
# will meet your original challenge and post my research.  But please
# justify your choice of verbs.

  WHAT verb?  Exactly my point.  There isn't one, which makes any
  attempt to draw exegesis from a particular verb more than a bit
  dishonest.  Still, to answer your challenge:

Malbim: "My hands and feet are like those of a lion in that they
        are able to stand up to the enemy."
Kimchi: "They encircle me as a lion encircles its prey, who in
        turn draws in its hands and feet in preparation for the attack."

# On the other hand if you give me the JPS Tanakh reading 'Like a lion
# [ they maul ] my hand and feet' or Rashi's 'My hands and feet [ as if
# they had been mangled in the mouth of a ] lion' then your
# interpretation is similar to mine and I have no need to answer you.

  There's a world of difference between an interpretation of poetic
  imagery and a prophecy.  The verse itself is extremely terse and,
  like most good poetry, ambiguous.  You disingenuously took a
  verb ('pierced') and claimed that it specifically prophecied an
  very particular event when there isn't even a verb in the passage!

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
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