HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: Star Trek teaching
Date: 24 Jan 93 05:52:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: PCS-BBS - San Jose, CA - 408-270-4085
Reply-To: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 

TO: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU

CJL>Have your class read _Ringworld_.  Let them talk about it for a while.
   >Then give 'em _Ringworld_Engineers_ (and make 'em read the preface!) to see
   >sort of things they missed.

Have 'em read _Neutron Star_ and _Protector_ as precursors....

How about _Mission of Gravity_?  That's a good one for some hard
science.
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-8688 . ...from San Jose, CA
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Spectrophotometric standards
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:53:34 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bondi.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: VAXnotes figaro forum forwarding

               <<< REVAD::$1$DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FIGARO.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< Figaro forum >-
================================================================================
Note 27.8                 Spectrophotometric standards                    8 of 8
RLVAD::PCTR "Paul Rees"                              19 lines  28-JAN-1993 10:06
                          -< Now available on STADAT >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The new Oke spectrophotometric standards (Oke, J.B., 1990. Astron.J.,
    99, 1621) and the HST spectrophotometric standards (Turnshek, D.A.,
    Bohlin, R.L., Williamson, R.L., Lupie, O.L., Koornneff, J., & Morgan,
    D.H., 1990. Astron.J., 99, 1243) formatted for use in FIGARO, are now
    available on STADAT. They have been added to the SPECTAL_ATLASDIR
    directory tree and are accessible by logging onto STADAT and typing 

       $ SPECTRAL_ATLASES

    You can then browse the help library for the atlases using the command

       $ ATLAS_HELP

    The Oke and HST standards are individual text files in the directories 
    OKE_ATLAS and HST_ATLAS respectively and have names indicating the name
    of the object. 

    If there are any problems, mail RLVAD::STAR.
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
From: michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke)
Subject: Re: Figaro versus IRAF (etc.)
Keywords: VAXnotes figaro forum forwarding
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 19:41:03 GMT

In article <1k8ulvINN8s0@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard) writes:
>               <<< REVAD::$1$DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FIGARO.NOTE;1 >>>
>                               -< Figaro forum >-
>================================================================================
>Note 26.43                  Figaro versus IRAF (etc.)                   43 of 45
>63499::ACB "Amanda Baker"                             8 lines  14-JAN-1993 10:42
>                               -< MIDAS search
> >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Greetings,
>
>		If I were forced to need to use MIDAS, where do I have to go to 
>find documentation, and the software?
>

Easy.  Write to midas@eso.org.

Michael
-- 
Michael Lemke
Astronomy, UT Austin, Texas
(michael@io.as.utexas.edu or UTSPAN::UTADNX::IO::MICHAEL [SPAN])
From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Re: I give up.  What is it?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 22:25:14 GMT
Organization: Australian National University, Canberra
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.35
Originator: markus@octavia


In article <1k94brINN1t2@morrow.stanford.edu>, pln@egret0.Stanford.EDU (Patrick L. Nolan) writes:
> After watching this newsgroup for several months, I still can't
> figure out what FIGARO is.  The recent burst of postings was
> sufficient to pique my interest.  Can someone post a brief
> explanation?
> 

As someone who lived with it everyday for the last 4-5 years....

FIGARO is a package of programs designed for the analysis of astronomical data.
Unlike AIPS and IRAF it is not an environment. Rather, it has a PBMPlus
mentality, i.e. there are a large number of small(ish) programs which 
each do their own thing, such as cropping images, calibrating them, adding
frames together, and stuff way more complicated too :-)

It is beautiful to use from scripts (DCL and (tc)sh) as you basically treat
FIGARO as an extension to the command set, unlike living within IRAF/AIPS/MIDAS
(which have their own powers, granted...)

One thing it doesn't have, which would be superb to have under Unix is
piping ability, like PBMplus. I asked Keith this once and he turned a most
interesting shade of green :-) 'it *could* be done' came back through clenched
teeth.

So maybe I can ask again now with the new project - could a piping ability
be built in ? Each program just needs to check if it has an in/out-put
filename, and if not then read-from/write to std-in/out.... trivial ! :-)

Does that help you ?

Cheers,
	Markus
-- 
Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility
email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au
Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Death by mutilation?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:35:29 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bondi.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: VAXnotes figaro forum forwarding

               <<< REVAD::$1$DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FIGARO.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< Figaro forum >-
================================================================================
Note 35.1                     Death by mutilation?                        1 of 3
DUVAD::KGB "Karl Glazebrook at Durham"                8 lines  18-DEC-1992 21:53
                                -< Hear, hear! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Yes what exactly is the big deal on TVPCKG - the 2.4 version
    image display IN SUN figaro is fine.
    
    Why do I get a creepy feeling that's its all a plot by STARLINK
    to make us use there crummy software - KAPPA and PAR [1/2 :-)] ?
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Death by mutliation?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:33:56 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bondi.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: VAXnotes figaro forum forwarding

               <<< REVAD::$1$DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FIGARO.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< Figaro forum >-
================================================================================
Note 35.0                     Death by mutilation?                     3 replies
DUVAD::TNW "Tim Wilkins, Durham"                     28 lines  18-DEC-1992 17:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For those who haven't yet heard Starlink are about to distribute a
    Sun/DECStation version of Figaro 3, but which uses the ADAM parameter
    system. It seems a sensible idea to stop having multiple prompting
    systems. However there are some problems with the ADAM Figaro,
    particularily concerned with re-prompting (basically you only get one
    chance to get it right!) and the lack of a working PAR_BATCH. Obviously it
    will be nice to have the version 3 Figaro on all machines, and there
    are additional functions available in later versions of Figaro. There
    are also missing routines-any which use image display via tvpckg
    (IMAGE, IMAGE2, ICUR, CLEAN, SDIST,COLOUR and possibly others) and the
    FITS routines. For some reason CDIST which is useless without SDIST
    seems to have been retained. The intention seems to be that the Vax
    version will also be replaced by this.
       Given these problems it would seem sensible to provide both versions
    for the time being. This would not actually involve a major overhead
    (after all we have had an ADAM version of Figaro on the Vaxes for some
    time and most people haven't noticed!). The important thing though is
    that we remove the duplication. This would mean having common source
    code and libraries where possible (at the moment Sun Figaro has it's
    own version of HDS for example). The only differences should be in
    having 2 versions of the par library, and separate executables and
    parameter/interface files. It seems unlikely that users will
    voluntarily move over to the ADAM version of Figaro if it doesn't
    provide such basic functionality as image display. To say that we
    should use KAPPA is not yet a satisfactory solution, although in the
    future it probably will be. At present no tape-reading capability is
    available elsewhere within Starlink software on UNIX hosts, so the loss
    of the FITS programs is somewhat serious!
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Figaro versus IRAF (etc.)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:38:39 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bondi.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: VAXnotes figaro forum forwarding

               <<< REVAD::$1$DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FIGARO.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< Figaro forum >-
================================================================================
Note 26.43                  Figaro versus IRAF (etc.)                   43 of 45
63499::ACB "Amanda Baker"                             8 lines  14-JAN-1993 10:42
                               -< MIDAS search
 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings,

		If I were forced to need to use MIDAS, where do I have to go to 
find documentation, and the software?

	Thanks

	Amanda
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: Re: I give up.  What is it?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 19:27:08 GMT
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
NNTP-Posting-Host: bondi.jpl.nasa.gov
Summary: it's an astronomical data processing/reduction package

In article <1k94brINN1t2@morrow.stanford.edu> pln@egret0.Stanford.EDU writes:
>After watching this newsgroup for several months, I still can't
>figure out what FIGARO is.  The recent burst of postings was
>sufficient to pique my interest.  Can someone post a brief
>explanation?

I suppose I really should make up a FAQ list.  Anyone care to send suggested
questions?  Sending just questions would be fine, but sending questions with
answers will be most appreciated.

Figaro is a astronomical data reduction package.  It was originally developed
at Caltech by Keith Shortridge a long, long time ago.  Since then, it has
migrated to a wide variety of sites around the world (I've sent out at least
30 tapes of Sun Figaro - I've no idea to what corners of the world VAX figaro
has travelled).

It was originally developed on a VAX 11/780 (750 maybe?), and currently runs on
VAXen, Suns, and a Convex.  A DECstation and more generally portable version is
soon to be released.

It contains many commands (281 at last count) to do a wide variety of things
such as display and manipulate data structures, usually images and spectra.
Display is possible on X11R4 machines, as well many devices attached directly
to VAXen and a Convex.

This newsgroup is also forwarded to a VAXnotes figaro conference, which is
read by people far more experience in using Figaro than am I.  Perhaps some of
them can expand upon and/or correct what I've written.

Sam Southard, Jr.
From: pln@egret0.Stanford.EDU (Patrick L. Nolan)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.figaro
Subject: I give up.  What is it?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:15:38 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
Reply-To: pln@egret0.Stanford.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: egret1.stanford.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

After watching this newsgroup for several months, I still can't
figure out what FIGARO is.  The recent burst of postings was
sufficient to pique my interest.  Can someone post a brief
explanation?

--
*   Patrick L. Nolan            (415)723-0133                 *
*   W. W. Hansen Experimental Physics Laboratory (HEPL)       * 
*   Stanford University                                       *
*   Bitnet: PLN@SLACVM    Internet: pln@egret0.stanford.edu   *
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.aips
From: mars@cwis.unomaha.edu (Douglas R Showell)
Subject: Re: star trek teaching
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:31:34 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.aips
From: pmurphy@nrao.edu (Pat Murphy)
Subject: Re: Solaris 2.1
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:28:14 GMT

"JJ" == phjj  <phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za> writes:

JJ> Will their be an AIPS port to Solaris 2.1?

It is our intention to provide support for Solaris 2.1 and HP-UX in
the 15APR93 version of AIPS.  The HP port has gotten past the DDT
stage, but the Solaris 2.1 port must wait until we have a box in-house
with the right OS version.  One is expected soon (within a month).

So the answer is: Yes, we have every intention of doing a Solaris 2.1
port.  No, it's not done yet.	
				- Pat

--
==========================================================================
| Patrick P. Murphy, Ph.D.                Scientific Programming Analyst |
| National Radio Astronomy Observatory    Net:       pmurphy@nrao.edu    |
| 520 Edgemont Road                       Phone:     (804) 296-0372      |
| Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475          VoiceMail: (804) 980-5889      |
|      "I don't believe in the no-win scenario"  --- James T. Kirk       |
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.aips
From: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za
Subject: Solaris 2.1
Reply-To: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, SA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:49:50 GMT


Will their be an AIPS port to Solaris 2.1?

Justin
====================================================~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~
    Justin Jonas        Radio Astronomy Group,                      /V\
  _____       __    __  Dept. Physics & Electronics,         \    /     \    /
 /____/ \    /_/|  /_/| Rhodes University,                     \/   |v|   \/
|  __ \ /|  | | | | | | Grahamstown 6140, South Africa           \__|#|__/  26m
| |__) |/   | | | | | | Internet: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za    HartRAO   /X\    dish
|  ___ \ \  | \_\/  | |           phjj@hippo.ru.ac.za             /\/|\/\
|_|/  \__\/  \___/|_|/      Tel: +27(461)22023 ext 452      ____/\/__|__\/\____
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.aips
From: paul@mtnmath.UUCP (Paul Budnik)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: What does quantum have to do with it?
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:01:46 GMT
Organization: Mountain Math Software, P. O. Box 2124, Saratoga. CA 95070

In article <24JAN199310353581@csa1.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
>[...] 
> You cannot prove a positive either, in the mathematical sense that you
> seem to be demanding.

I am not demanding that anything be proven. I am just pointing out that
in the absence of a proof that a more complete theory is impossible one
should maintain an open mind.

> This is physics, after all.  You will forever
> be able to maintain the posibility of a "more complete model" which 
> is not yet ruled out by experimental evidence.  This applies to Special
> Relativity, QED, GR, and, of course, QM and every other theory of modern
> physics.  But where does it get you to maintain such a vague, contrarian
> position? 

I thought it was simply scientific open mindedness to accept the
possibility that *every* existing theory may eventually be overturned
by a more complete model. Why should this be considered a `contrarian'
position? To me it is simply a healthy scientific skepticism about
existing theories.

The best of scientists do maintain such a healthy skepticism even about
the theories they created. I repeat my favorite quote from Einstein:

	I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the
	field concept, i. e., on continuous structures. In that case
	*nothing* remains of my entire castle in the air gravitation
	theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics.
		-- Einstein in a 1954 letter to Besso,/ quoted from:
		"Subtle is the Lord", Abraham Pais, page 467.


Paul Budnik
From: sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: What does quantum have to do with it?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 10:35 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.196
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <516@mtnmath.UUCP>, paul@mtnmath.UUCP (Paul Budnik) writes...
>In article <23JAN199316255366@csa2.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
>> But QM makes the unambiguous assumption that all such physical 
>> processes are stochastic, by which I mean that you can never, even
>> in principle, predict more than the average particle life-time, never
>> the time of decay.  Given the strong experimental position of QM,
>> I think that it is fair to take this as strong evidence that such
>> processes are truly random, and that there is no as yet undiscovered
>> microscopic theory which will predict individual decay times.
> 
>The problem with this argument is that is hard to find what you are not
>looking for. One cannot prove a negative and it is impossible to rule out
>the possibility of a more complete model or even to define what you
>would mean by experimental evidence to support such a claim. 

You cannot prove a positive either, in the mathematical sense that you
seem to be demanding.  This is physics, after all.  You will forever
be able to maintain the posibility of a "more complete model" which 
is not yet ruled out by experimental evidence.  This applies to Special
Relativity, QED, GR, and, of course, QM and every other theory of modern
physics.  But where does it get you to maintain such a vague, contrarian
position?  You still don't learn *how* to modify QM appropriately, until
the day when you actually identify an experimental prediction on which
QM fails.  (I address this point to the original poster, not to you,
since I know that your ideas on this subject are not so vague as a 
simple contrarian opposition.) 

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"It is not a simple life to be a single cell,
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		 although I have no right to say so, having
				 been a single cell so long ago myself that I 
				 have no memory at all of that stage of my 
				 life." - Lewis Thomas
From: cuhes@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Malcolm McMahon)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: reality as a fluid
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:42:10 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Reply-To: malcolm@geog.leeds.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.csv.warwick.ac.uk


It seems to me that there is a fundamental problem with all theories
of this sort. The problem is that the properties of fluids, and the
waves that move in them, are created by the effects of mass and forces
within the fluid which are, in turn explained in terms of the
particals and fields you seek to explain. In other words you are
reversing the normal scientific procedure and trying to explain the
properties of the small in terms of the large. Effectively you have
generated an infinite regress. Before you know where you are you are
into sub-ethers and sub-sub-ethers. THe question is this. Why should
we expect to find anything at the sub-atomic scale that ressembles
anything at the mesoscopic scale in which humans normally operate?

Real waves happen on the surface of water. Where ever else we talk about
wavews we are actually using a metaphor.


Malcolm McMahon
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:25:57 CST
From: <U59791@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Telsa, Over Utilization Devices

I was wondering if there is a FTP site for infromation RE: Telsa, Overutilizati
on Devices, ZPE, and so on.  I can some theory and I'm working on the math part
.  Also I have heard about a Mr. Searl is this the same as Searle Purth?
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
|   Shane Vincent         |  SHANE_VINCENT@CPSNET.CPS.EDU               |
|                         |                                             |
|                         |  U59791@UICVM.UIC.EDU                       |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: What does quantum have to do with it?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:46:22 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel):
>I don't have to devise an experiement to show that the mechanism exists.
>*You* have to devise one to show that it doesn't.

So it's our responsibility to prove wrong each of your ideas.  NOT!

>If I were to make an hypothesis compatible with experimental evidence, then
>what is needed is an experiment to disproof it, rather than to proof it.

If so, then it's _your_ responsibility to devise and perform it.

>You could present us with some experiments showing that real randomness
>*does* exist. I would be delighted to see them.

So define "real randomness".  Mathematicians will be glad of your insight.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
From: nazrael@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (James Robert Vanmeter)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: fluid ether, ZPE, gravity
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:17:15 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu



Reguarding ether fluid, I think it is probably equivalent to
zero-point energy.  There are many theories about ether-fluid
to be found in a journal called Speculations in Science and 
Technology.  Reguarding why ZPE exerts no gravitational force,
I think this could be because ZPE causes gravitational force, as
in Puthoff's theory.  Which brings me to a question:  in light 
of Puthoff's ZPE "push" theory of gravity, is it possible to 
consider the graviton as a travelling wave-like deficit of ZPE?
From: orion@cwis.unomaha.edu (Wouldn't you like to know)
Subject: subspace communication
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:54:17 GMT

I am elated to see a discussion over star trek mechanics.  Although I saw no actual
discussion in the article I just read (reply i assume) it still tickles me to see
this.  I have a few friends who go to different universities whom I discuss real world 
explanations for Star Trek phenomnon, but as they are out of state I can only talk to them\
during select periods of time....
Anyways to get to my request....I was wondering if discussions over real world explanations
for warp theory, photon torpedoes, transporter, phasers, shield et. al. would be entertained
and responded to via this newsgroup
I also own several of the technical manuals pertaining to Star Trek and would love to discuss
and debate explanations give therein....
If anyone would like to do the same.....please drop me some text....
Thanks.....later....8-)
--
               You have had the priviledge of reading the words of:
                                    JEFF BEISCH
                                 The Cheshire Cat
                "There is no good or evil....There is only flesh."
From: cotera@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Need a FAQ
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:02:05 GMT

Can someone post the FAQ that discusses altering radioactive decay rates?  I
saw it about a month ago.
Thanks,
       Ray Cote