HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: Auto Gates
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:02:08 GMT

Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:


>I find this an interesting concept.  I have NEVER heard of such a thing....a
>gate that operates off horn sounds.  Not to call anyone a liar, but can you
>verify 100% that the whistle is what activates the gates?  I just find it
>strange that a noise would work the gates.  What would happen if a semi
>pulled up to the crossing and blew his horn?

The ex-SP San Francisco subdivision (now the Joint Powers Board Peninsula
Commute Service ugh!  JPB/PCS) does have gates that do lower when the
engineer blows the horn, after the gate has just raised because the
train stopped at a station.  Here's the whole sequence.  Many of the
stations are located right near busy non-grade separated cross streets.
When the train pulls into the station the gates go down (not all trains
stop at all stations).  After the gates have been down X amount of time,
the gates raise.  When the train starts moving the engineer blows 14-L
(two longs, a short and a long, but some engineers are lazy and just
toot the horn once).  A directional microphone picks up the sound and
the gates lower again.  They will only do this if the gates were just
down and had timed out.  The microphone is not right at the road and
has a case that has the open end pointed back along the track, sort of
looks like a loudspeaker horn.  The engineer runs at slow speed until
it is known that the gates have lowered.  Also, the flashing lights
at the grade crossings have small openings pointed at right angles
to the road so the engineer can see that the lights are working.
There are several installations like this, right off the top of
my head I think that Milbrae is one of them.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: drs@stsci.edu (David Soderblom)
Subject: Deaths on Railroad Property
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:23:43 GMT

A recent thread in this newsgroup has been about an incident in which some
young tresspassers were killed while crossing a trestle.  Many of the
responses expressed the feeling that those deaths were the proper consequence
of the foolishness of the tresspassers. "They got what they deserved."

I do not think that that callousness represents the true feelings of most of
this newsgroup's readers.  The "common sense" that we expect other people to
have with respect to railroads is in fact relatively rare, as witnessed by
the all-too-frequent foolish things that people do.  The stories we saw here
by railfans, in which they confessed their own hair-raising encounters with
dangerous situations, attest to the fact that we are all vulnerable to doing
stupid things.

In this season of forgiveness, let us forgive ourselves if we are so
opinionated as to think that people intentionally bring disaster on
themselves.  If incidents of this kind run a shiver down your spine -- as
they do mine -- then vow to work to eliminate the problem and not just
to point out what somebody should have done long after it's too late.

In another follow-up, somebody mentioned another incident in which some very
young children were killed after straying from their backyard onto the
tracks, and the poster castigated the mother for her inattention.  I have
to conclude that this person must either be single or that their major
contribution to child raising was a one-time ejaculation for them to be so
unfeeling and ignorant of just what is involved in caring for children.
Children are not the sole responsibility of the mother, and, as any parent who
has actually spent time with their children can verify, children can find ways
to get into trouble on time scales that are much shorter than the time it takes
to get a load of laundry into the washer and get back upstairs.  Fortunately
they don't do it very often (not usually, anyway).  Unless you personally
know exactly what that mother or father was facing during those moments
that lead to tragedy, I suggest that you keep moral judgments to yourself.

Let us all hope for a safe and happy new year.

David Soderblom
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore MD
soderblom@stsci.edu

These opinions are strictly personal.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Keywords: spirals
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:07:56

In article <2639@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner) writes:

    ...[describes spirals in the UK, India, Switzerland and Germany]...

In the USA, I know of three spirals in service: Tehachapi Loop, east of
Bakersfield CA on track shared by the SP & ATSF, Hiwassee Loop on CSX
(former L&N) between Copper Hill and Etowah TN, and the Georgetown Loop
tourist operation on the former Colorado Central narrow gauge.

Tehachapi is freight-only with very heavy traffic, and can be viewed
effectively from a car.  Hiwassee would be the most spectacular if they
hadn't cured the air pollution that used to kill all the trees in the
area (it goes around the mountain twice), and got one freight round
trip a day when I visited 7 years ago.  Georgetown passenger trains are
usually pulled by Shays (steam locomotives with gear-drive instead of
side rods).

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:11:38 GMT

> > > Nowadays they weld it at rail welding plants into long
> > > strings that are transported on special cars.  It looks real strange
> > > to see a welded rail train going around a curve.  Just shows how
> > > flexible rail really is.
> > 
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that rail is "rolled" from
> > the steel mills in 1/4 mile length right onto the special cars ...
>
> The cars themselves look like fairly normal length,
> but the rail just runs out the end of one car and into the end of the
> next one down, above the coupler.

I don't know who's right about how the 1/4 mile lengths are manufactured
-- maybe both people -- but I do have a tidbit to add about the trains.

On May 31, 1965, there was a major pileup on the Southern Railway near
Greenville, SC, USA.  A train pulled by 5 locomotives collided with a
bulldozer.  In this train was a sequence of 30 flatcars, which were
carrying a load of rails 700 feet long.  I have at hand a picture of
the wreck, and the rails are curved rather spectacularly into a series
of S bends, with bogies and loose axles all over the ground.

The picture was printed in Scientific American in June 1966 in an article
on "River Meanders", by Luna B. Leopold and W. B. Langbein; this article
was reprinted in 1979 in a book of Scientific American articles called
"The Physics of Everyday Phenomena" (W. H. Freeman & Co., ISBN 0-7167-
1125-7, paperback 0-7167-1126-5).

The reason it's in there is that the springy rails, or a simple piece
of springy metal that you hold bent in an S curve, or the meanders of a
river, are all approximations to the same curve.  It is called a "sine-
generated curve", and it has the property that if you travel along it
and plot your instantaneous direction of travel against the distance you
have come, then you get a sine wave.  For the reasons, see the article.
-- 
Mark Brader              | "...not one accident in a hundred deserves the name.
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto   |  [This occurrence] was simply the legitimate result
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com |  of carelessness."           -- Washington Roebling

This article is in the public domain.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,aus.rail
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:22:16 GMT

crh@wam.umd.edu (Craig Hinners) writes:
>b) What exactly is "welded rail"?  I assume this means they actually
>   melt the two ends of the rail together so that if you went up to
>   the rail, you wouldn't be able to tell where the joints were.
>   Correct?  Also, it seems to me that the heating process of welding
>   the rails together would produce some warping in the rails, which,
>   although minute, could cause buggers at very high speeds?  Can some-
>   one describe the actual process of fusing two lengths of rail and the
>   machinery involved?

You are correct in assuming that the rail ends are welded together.

The process I believe is called "Thermite", and is similar to the way
the propeller on an ocean liner is repaired when not near repair facilities.

My knowledge of this goes back about twelve years to high school chemistry,
so if anyone can fill in any gaps or correct any errors, please do so.

I believe the process involves using scrap aluminium (shredded pieces
provide more surface area), some compound containing iron and a catalyst
compound, for some reason some compound of potassium comes to mind.
When ignited, the aluminium replaces the iron in the compound and iron
is precipitated out.  With the catalyst, the reaction is very fast and
hot and therefore the precipitated iron is molten.  Our chemistry teacher
demonstrated a small version of this -- everyone kept far back and had
lots of water on hand! :-)  The reaction cracked the crucible it was
in and a nice plop of molten iron dropped to the asbestos pad under the
setup.

With welding rails, I believe a sand "mould" is used that fits over the
joint and allows the ingredients to be ignited.  This produces a great
amount of concentrated heat that fuses the two rail ends together and
because of the concentration and short life of the reaction, little
distortion of surrounding rail occurs.

The welded rail usually (at least here in Canada) gets a small "tag"
with its date on it for maintenance/record purposes.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting strangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Train station car rentals and long-term parking?
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:45:00 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>In article <102375@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
>:     A final complaint: every commercial airport has a car rental
>: on-site, that is pretty much open whenever the planes are flying.
>: So far, only in Washington have I found a car rental at a train
>: station.  If you are going to a city where you won't be picked
>: up, and your destination isn't right near the train station, this
>: totally eliminates AMTRAK as an option.
> 
>>Several people have already responded to this last complaint, suggesting
>>there's a potential market the car-rental companies have yet to tap.  In
>>Philadelphia, they have: both Hertz and Avis maintain counters *inside*
>>30th Street Station, with fleets of cars available on the premises.  Btw,
>>the station redesign added more long-term parking underground, and expanded
>>the short-term parking area (although the new payment system, with booth
>>attendants replacing the old parking meters, is more cumbersome).  You
>>can't imagine how good I feel knowing that Philly finally has *one* first-
>>class transportation terminal.
>
>	It has been pointed out that a lot of Amtrak stations don't
>get much passenger business in the first place, although stations
>could certainly have ads for local car rentals.
>

Most car rental companies ( large and small ) have offices in or near 
most major downtown areas. they will come to you, whether you are at 
the amtrak station or where ever you might be, as long as you are not
too far away. I did rent a car when I recently traveled to the amtrak 
station in los angeles, but neglected to plan ahead. it was a sunday
night so I had to take a cab to the hotel, and rent the car on monday 
morning. I have also used avis at philidelphia's 30th street station
and found having the rental agency at the station a little more handy
than having the rental agency off-site. remember, however, not all
rental companies have on-site offices at airports also.

-- Dan

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Looking for Rail Magazines
Summary: specialized magazines and trade magazines
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:22:23 GMT

In article <C00z3z.1DA@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>, organic@mgr.hjf.org (Miriam Organic) writes:
> I'm looking for magazines for and about railfaning....
> Can anybody E-mail or post a suggestion or two?
> 
> Thanks E-Mail organic@mgr.hjf.org


Well, it depends a lot on what type of railfanning you are
interested in.  There are magazines and fans who live for chasing
steam excursions, and then there are others for whom modern
high-horsepower units are the thing.  Then, there are still others
who are interested in more international things.

Trains and Railfan are the two middle-of-the-road standards, which
try to include something for everyone -- and often make no one happy.

Actually I don't think any fan who is really interested in current
North American operations should be without Railway Age.  Yes, it's
a trade journal and talks about such things as economics of 
railroading, but it also provides a perspective that the railfan
publications don't.

Another good publication, more a newsletter than a magazine, is 
International Railway Traveler, whose focus is more on the travel
experience and whose coverage is about 50 per cent North American
and the rest foreign.


There are also many regional and special-interest publications, some
of which overlap with the model railroad field.  (Model magazines
also often have good prototype articles and photos.)

It may help to pose your question again, stating your specific
interests.


Disclaimer:  I've contributed material to Trains, Railfan, and IRT
in the past, though I certainly haven't gotten rich off of any of
these publications.

-- Ernest

-- 
"My other computers are Nikon N8008s and an SB25." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature meets plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: drx@chinet.chi.il.us (Scott Whittle)
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property: common sense or am I an Idiot?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:52:15 GMT

To what extent do the people who know better pick up for the fools who
know better and choose not to act like they know better? 

I was at a
crossing gate while a full train from Chicago rolled in to dump off its
load of exec. types. While the trains patrons where all just about off 
and people were clearing the area, i notice this 20 something girl starting
to crawl under the train to get to the other side. Apparently she was on the
wrong side when the train pulled up and instead of "missing" her ride
she decided to make a move.  Oooh I might mention that while she was
traversing (with many packages in hand) under the car she bumped her head
on some commuter car plumbing which stalled her attempt to get out from
under the car.  ALL this just as the train was getting ready to move again!
I sat there in my parked car in amazement! I couldn't believe that I was
perhaps watching the single most stupid person on the face of the earth!

People around here are always cutting behind a train or jumping the gates
just 'cause they are too impatient to wait.  

Getting smacked by a train because the gates failed to come down and 
getting smacked by a train because I decided to go around the gates are
too completly different scenerios which have a corresponding level of
"common sense" and personal responsiability.

:soap box off::
-- 
Scott Whittle (drx)                       drx@chinet.chi.il.us
Ground Zero Sight & Sound, inc.          
Two Wheaton Center #1111         * Ding-a-Ding-Dang my Dang-a-long-ling-long 
Wheaton, IL 60187 708.899.6567   * Ministry, JBMH, as edited by IceIce Beno  
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Unusual Trackage (Was: Unusual tunnels?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 27 DEC 92 08:51:28    

	I can confirm the existence of a loop at Sunnyside Yards, having once
	had the opportunity to ride around it.  Got some video...

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass, USA	
01775				pierson@msd27.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Keywords: thermite rail welding
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:20:13 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: na
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <921230173224@cream.ftp.com> jbvb@ftp.com writes:
> In article <9o1LwB5w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> 
>     > I believe the process involves using scrap aluminium (shredded pieces
>     > provide more surface area), some compound containing iron and a catalyst
>     > compound, ...
>     
>     Thermite is what was supposedly used in that famous old MIT fraternity
>     prank wherein a streetcar was welded to its rails at the stop in front
>     of 77 Mass Ave (and not in Kendall Square subway station, as some
>     revisionists have suggested)...
> 
> I've heard both the story of the streetcar welding, and the story of
> the greasing of the Cambridge-Dorchester subway's rails in Kendall
> Sq. many times, but never accompanied by any hard evidence.  The streetcar
> welding would have had to be no later than mid-40s, given the location.
> 
> At any rate, classic Thermite is powdered iron oxide and aluminum
> filings (dust is better).  You do need a fairly hot igniter to get it
> going, but I've seen a torch used.

I believe that another way is to use a "primer", where something like
magnesium powder and an oxidizer is sprinked on top of the thermite,
allowing one to use a pistol-like spark lighter to get things started.
This may have been what the previous poster was thinking of as a
catalyst, since the actually thermite reaction needs no help!

I've seen rails on a trolley line welded this way and it's pretty
impressive, even in daylight.  The rail ends up red/yellow hot a
good ways back from the joint.  The molds is knocked off with the
metal still hot and some rough grinding/chipping done immediately,
with the final profiling done later.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Alcos, GG1's, etc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:18:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <Bq47VB4w165w@1776.COM>, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
> > I think it's more complicated than that.  According to the F40PH manual
> > I have, the throttle handle settings behaves differently when head-end
> > power is being generated than when it's not.  If it's not, the throttle
> > controls the diesel engine speed directly, in a fairly intuitive manner.
> > But the HEP generator requires constant RPM, so the engine has to run
> > at the same speed all the time.  In that case, the throttle handle
> > controls the excitation of the field windings of the main generator,
> > in order to govern the speed of the engine.
> 
> Somehow that doesn't make sense.  I'd believe "minimum" RPM, but if HEP is 
> being generated by the prime mover, how could the generator possibly require 
> "constant" engine RPM?  When the train is underway, the prime mover's RPM 
> must depend on train speed and weight and on the terrain being traversed 
> (level, climbing, etc.).  Am I missing something obvious?  Also, I thought 
> that the throttle settings controlled the current drawn by the traction 
> motors and only indirectly the speed of the prime mover.  Or does the whole 
> discussion above apply only to the function of the throttle when the traction 
> motors are disconnected?

The manual doesn't explain, but my assumption is that they need constant
RPM in order to be able to generate constant 60 Hz power.  I'd post exact 
quotes, except that my manual has wandered off some time in the last
two days.  But it was most explicit -- when a unit is serving as a HEP
source, the mechanism of the throttle is changed, and the diesel engine
itself runs at constant RPM.  Speed control is accomplished by changing
the generator's behavior.

I don't recall the exact mechanism used when head-end power is off, but
again, the manual was quite explicit that the engine RPM could then vary.
Whether the control of RPM is direct or indirect I'll let others speculate on.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: Re: Locomotive operation/maintenance manuals?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:18:14 GMT

pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>Tom Glanzman writes, in part:
>
>>  I am interested in finding a book describing the detailed operation (and
>>recommended maintenance) for some specific steam locomotive.  This would
>>presumably be a reprint of an old document.  Do such things exist and are
>>they in print?
>	As a serious book collector, i can't say i have ever seen such, either
>	original, or reprint.  (the exception that comes to mind is an op's
>	manual for some of the steam turbine/electric experimentals, which is
>	probably not wot you wanted....).
>
>	Most of the info seems to have been in "generic engine" books, or
>	sections of books.  (I could be wrong, but....)
>
>	My impression is that the documentation (as in ops handbooks, etc,)
>	that we see on the diesel-electrics was provided because they were not
>	"part of the culture" (and when the had become so, the pattern had
>	been set AND the technology changed enough between models that the
>	handbooks wereuseful), the way the steamers were.

While this isn't exactly what you're after, I have a copy of a
handbook issued to firemen studying for promotion to engineer.  I
don't remember the specifics, but I believe it is a 1930's era book
issued by the PRR.  It is full of detailed technical questions (and
answers) about how to test and adjust all of the equipment in both the
engine and freight cars.  I suffered MEGO(*) after a few pages, but I
think it indicates that there at least _used_ to be books of the sort
requested by the original poster.  I'll try to dig the book up this
evening.

(*) My Eyes Glaze Over

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu
From: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Talking Detectors
Date: 20 Dec 92 11:01:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, (313)663-4173, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Reply-To: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 

In a recent post from Jeff Hintzman;
JH>How do the "smart" detectors count the number of axles that go by?
JH>Photocells?  Laser beam?  Clink-clunk sound on rail joint? :-)

Axles are read by infrared detectors.  These also provide the hot
box information.


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Newsgroups: rec.railroad