HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slj1k@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Rachmaninoff's cello or 2nd?
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:23:53 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

I'm torn between purshasing a Rachmaninoff CD containing his 2nd Symphony and
the Vocalise, and one with his cello sonatas with the Volcalise.

Any suggestions (and please don't say both, I'm poor)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark L. Reece     |  ``... and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and
SLJ1K@CC.USU.EDU  |  saw.'' - Neil Peart ``... uh, Viv, can you, like, actually
je taime, jen     |  kill yourself with laxative pills?'' - Neil, a young one.
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
Subject: Re: Carmina Burana
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:05:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.195956.9360@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (P. J. Holsberg) writes:
>Any idea where I can get the English translation of Orff's "Carmina
>Burana"?  Thanks.

There are some recordings of the original Carmina Burana songs
that come with translations.

I can say from personal experience that the translations provided with
concert programs are sometimes hoplessly sanitized.
-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Great but underappreciated composers and/or pieces
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:34:33 GMT

Another thread. Any suggestions? Me first--Das Marienleben by Hindemith; 
anything by Binchois. Why does Dufay get all the good press?

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Musicians rubbishing composers !
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:02:27 GMT

Glenn Gould didn't like Mozart very much. (After listening to him playing the
Sonatas, I can believe this!! In fact, in a book by producer Andrew Kadzin
(sp?), Gould supposedly told A.K. while recording the piece that he was doing
it in a weird way to piss people off or words to that effect.) There is a
long article in the Glenn Gould Reader where GG demonstrates that the only
worthwhile thing Mozart wrote was one passage, I think in one of his late
symphonies, which has some unusual structure resembling either 12-tone or
serial technique. (I don't have the book here, I may be a bit off...)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Death by baton
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:42:10 GMT

The "conductor" who died by stabbing himself in the foot was Lully. A 
truly sad day for the French baroque (though he was Italian).

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms Violin Concerto
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:32:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: msc.1992Nov17.153254.21878
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu

From article <1992Nov17.115723.27778@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, by johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer):
> 
> DAVE;
> 
> Acording to the schwann (opus) guide.  G. Neveu,Schmidt-Isserstedt,North German RSO
>   do the concerto on the ACANTA label CD-43314  DDD

Many thanks!...but do you really mean "DDD"?  Or is that part of the catalog
number?

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: shire@dorsai.com (Kenneth Shire)
Subject: Re: The best Tristan und Isolde
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:07:45 GMT

About the Knappertsbusch TRISTAN.  He was known for slow, some think 
ponderous tempi, but his TRISTAN seems exuberantly youthful.  This is in 
keeping with the fact that Tristan and Isolde are supposed to be 
teenagers!  Musically, it's a wonderfully fresh performance.  For my 
money though, the Furtwangler studio TRISTAN is the best available.  The 
Bernstein is up there, too, though the voices are not the most beautiful. 
The Melodram release of the 1962 radio broadcast from Bayreuth is much 
better than the DG release of performances with the same cast.
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tatiana Nikolayeva plays Bach, Shostakovich - CD reviews
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:57:15 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

Russian pianist Tatiana Nikolayeva is primarily known for her
performances and recordings of the music of J.S. Bach and
Shostakovich.  Her current recording contract with England's Hyperion
Records has brought us two new CDs, one for each of these composers. 

Nikolayeva's first recording for Hyperion was of Shostakovich's 24
Preludes and Fugues, Op. 87.  She now follows this up with the Op. 34
set of 24 Preludes, the Three Fantastic Dances, Op. 5, and the Piano
Sonata No. 2 (CDA 66620). 

Nikolayeva and Shostakovich had a working relationship which spanned
some 25 years, and probably there is no other performer today who
understands his piano works better than she does. Some of the
composer's most cryptic music was written for the piano - indeed, it is
hard to imagine other tonal pieces of music which pack more content
into shorter playing times than the Op. 34 Preludes.  Fortunately,
Nikolayeva also is no mean technician; she packs plenty of power when
it is needed, and her stately playing is always clear and lucid. 

"Clear and lucid" are words which describe her Bach even more
accurately. Her other new Hyperion release (CDA 66631/2, 2 CDs)
contains some of Bach's knottiest problems: The Art of Fugue, plus the
two Ricercari from A Musical Offering, and the four Duettos (BWV
802-805). 

Nikolayeva provides some interesting and effective solutions to the
organizational problems Bach left behind when he died before finishing
The Art of Fugue.  Canonical fugues are played after Contrapunctus 4,  7
and 11, and the mirror fugues, Contrapunctus 12 and 13, are played in
reverse order. Nikolayeva chooses to leave Bach's Contrapunctus 14 as
he left it - unfinished.  Whatever the rationale for these decisions was,
they work well, and Nikolayeva is predictably astonishing in her ability
to communicate this music to the listener without burdening it with
unnecesary interpretive distortions.  Nikolayeva is to Bach on the piano
what Landowska was to Bach on the harpsichord: peerless. 

Hyperion's sound is a bit harsh, and the piano used in the Shostakovich
sessions could have used some work - I grimaced more than once during
the Preludes.  But all in all, these are fine releases, and I look forward
to Nikolayeva's next Hyperion release, a CD of Bach's Goldberg
Variations. 





--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Help Required. Dodecacophony. ;-)
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:36:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.005354.17611@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.231404.13134@credence.com> jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.162311.6730@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>>In article <MQ1SBS4S@cc.swarthmore.edu> abrocke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Aaron Brockett) writes:
>
>>|>The problem is 
>>|>that the basic musical language of today's listeners' is not much 
>>|>different from that of audiences in the nineteenth century. 
>
>>|On the contrary: it is radically different.  It is based on 150-year-old
>>|music, whereas the musical language of 150 years ago was based on music
>>|then current.  This time warp is the crux of the matter.
>
>The disagreement involves the nature of the language in each case. In
>one case it's common coin, in the other it's artificially preserved.

I would say that not only is it radically different than it was 150
years ago, but 30 years too.  I think this anecdote illustrates how much
different it is.

When I was at University of Illinois in the 70s, I remember in jazz band
playing a composition by Morgan Powell that he wrote around 1960
when he was at North Texas State, with their jazz band program.
The piece was in 6/4, with one half the band playing a subdivision of 3
beats, the other half a subdivision of 2, making it very polyrythmic.
We were able to sight read it, and at the end of the rehearsal, we
played it good enough to perform live.  One of the persons who was on the
scene at North Texas during that time remarked how easy it was for us
to get it together, while it took the North Texas band the whole semester.
Here was perhaps the premier college band at the time, taking a whole
semester to get a piece of music together, and here was a
_second_ jazz band (above average to be sure, but with many non music
majors) making it in only one day.  

Why is this so?  If you look at the time (approx 1960) it
was written, and look at what was going on in jazz, you can see that that
music was on par with the then cutting edge.  In terms of that kind of
polyrythm, it was being similarly done by John Coltrane on Africa/Brass,
or the tune India.  Not too many people were musically prepared to
hear or play that kind of music in 1960.  Whereas today, it is far
more commonplace, so there is no trouble in hearing it, and there is no 
trouble in playing it, and it is easily taken for granted.

Jeff
From: bellmann@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Barber's First Symphony
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:56:32 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

   For years I listened to Barber's First Symphony only through Howard Hanson's
version which in my mind became the standard. Some time ago I bought the
score, and the first thing I avidly checked was the beginning of the middle
section, where a G.P. is followed by a mood-changing harp arpeggio, just before
the oboe starts playing its solo. I could hardly believe my eyes, but the
arpeggio was nowhere to be seen, replaced by just two notes in octaves.
Listening to recent recordings, such as Jarvi's, I've noticed that they all
follow the score as it is. Does anybody know if this arpeggio was a contribution
by Hanson or did Barber revise the score and eliminate it?

Hector
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: herbster@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Christoph Herbster)
Subject: Re: Schoenberg's Gurre-Lieder
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:17:48 GMT

pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:

>Please recommend a CD version of Arnold Schoenberg's "Gurre-Lieder".
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>-- Brad Pierce --
>

You should able to listen to the Decca Recording with Riccardo Chailly
and RSO Berlin, it's my favourite one.

Torsten Hippe
Pinnauweg 24
1 Berlin 37
Germany
Student of law and CS
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: A Query
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:12:58 GMT

From article <1992Nov19.192919.3034@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>, by dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker):
> In article <Bxx64F.LCD.1@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>>In article <1ec74hINNp7f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> kat@banach.WPI.EDU (Christina Lynne Freeman) writes:
>>>I would like to buy my father a CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition"  on it for
>>>Christmas.  It is one of his favorites (according to my mother.)  However, I 
>>>forgot which composer this piece is by.  Also - does anyone know of a good 
>>>recording that they prefer over another?
>>
>>It's a piano piece by Mussorgsky.  There are various orchestrations
>>available.  By far the most popular incarnation is the Ravel orchestration,
>>but since you didn't state which incarnation you wanted, I'll take the
>>liberty of assuming the original solo piano.
>>
>>There are a lot of bad versions out there.  The best I've heard is the
>>Richter on DG mid-price.  It's mono, though.  The Horowitz is supposed to
> 
> The Richter is on Philips, it's from a concert in Sofia, Bulgaria, in
> February 1958, and sounds, as Gramophone put it, as if it were
> recorded at the far end of an aircraft hangar. But it is a *great*
> performance. 
> 
Jim Svejda, host of "The Record Shelf" (for all of you So. Californians out 
there), said that it sounds as if all of Sofia were dying of terminal
smokers' hack.  It is, nonetheless, a fantastic performance, head and shoulders above the rest.  

The best DDD performance (if such things are important to you) that I've heard
is a highly acclaimed Barry Douglas of a few years back.  It's no match for
the Richter, though.


Dave

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Current Favorites
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:46:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.124249.8061@visual.com> rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
>Robert Simpson.  Cult figure in England.  His Ninth Symphony is
>   an incredible synthesis of Brucknerian technique with more modern
>   composition.  The recording includes a 15-minute guided tour of
>   the work by the composer, with examples.

I really like this piece.  It's about 50 minutes long and doesn't change
tempo once, and that helps a lot to hold it together.  More than that, for
me the pulse made the piece riveting.

-chris
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: new Boulez/Cleveland Le Sacre Du Printemps
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:20:22 GMT


OK, the 1992 Boulez/Cleveland version of Igor Stravinsky's Le Sacre Du
Printemps has hit the stores in the U.S.  I presume by the review in
Grammophone that it has been out in Europe for a few months.  That issue
had an interview with Boulez stating he wants to rerecord many things he
has already done.  There also is another rerecording with Debussy's
Prelude just out.  I haven't heard either one.
Boulez has recorded Le Sacre with Cleveland in 1969, and one
other time much earlier.  I don't have the earliest one, but I have been
doing A-B comparisons of his 1969 version with the 1992 version.

I have to say I like the 1969 version better, for one, the recording
gives you the perspective of being in the trenches, the 1992 DDD is more
distant.  ( Apparently sacrificial dances are not a spectator sport ;)
Whether it is this or the playing, the 1969 version comes off more
ferocious and primitive. I think he is able to get the 1969 orchestra 
more locked in on the same rhythmic pulse, and when that happens, the 
gesture expands, it is as if the instruments become part of the percussion
section.  Boulez gets what we in the jazz world call "in the pocket".
This seems to get away from the 1992 orchestra.  For instance, on Danse 
Sacrale - L'elue, the Grammophone reviewer complains about the stodgy 
tempo, but I don't think the problem is with the tempo.  The brass get 
the right staccato to give it the push, but the strings don't follow 
through, so the energy drags.  It is not just in this section, I think 
whenever a strong rhythmic pulse is called for in any part of the piece, 
( the fortissimo of Rondes printanieres, for instance) the 1969 orchestra 
does it better.  ( Grammophone also complains about this one french horn 
part being inaudible, but that one is too quiet on most Le Sacre's I 
have heard, except the 1969 Boulez )

If the 1992 version has some things better, I think it is when the music
is more textural.  Boulez seems to have sorted out the contrasting
elements of the textures, and when this happens, there is greater
clarity.  It is like you are seeing an image with better resolution.
But with Le Sacre, if you do as I do and put the energy first, then
stick with the 1969 version. 

Anyway, I'll see him do it live with the Chicago symphony soon enough.
They recorded a faster version of it with Solti in the mid 70s.  The
rhythmic energy doesn't sag, but I think it also sometimes sounds
rushed.  (not in the pocket ;)

Jeff
From: bellmann@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Respighi's Fountains of Rome
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:57:45 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

  In Respighi's score of "Fountains of Rome" the two harps are marked
"ad libitum". I grew up with the Toscanini version and got to consider
the harps as absolutely essential, specially in the last section. It was
very disappointing for me to get Dutoit's CD and find no harps at all.
Next I tried Ozawa, just in case he had a different idea but missed again.
Does anybody know of a CD version of the tryptic that includes the harps?

Hector
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: El Salon Mexico 
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:54:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.011355.17747@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>
>Secondly, how about the Prokofiev piano concertos conducted by Neeme
>Jarvi on Chandos?  Wow, another simply amazing set of

Great.  So have we finally reached the point at which the ubiquitous and
overrated Jarvi is so much more important than a concerto soloist that the
latter isn't even mentioned?

BTW, if you don't think Jarvi is overrated, try checking out
alt.fan.shostakovich sometime.

-chris
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: mozart/handel - messiah
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:09:51 GMT

From article <92325.172728IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, by <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>:
> I was wondering if anyone has ever seen references to a
> revison of the "Messiah" by W.A. Mozart?

It's really a "reorchestration."  The orchestral parts have been augmented,
most obviously by adding clarinets (which did not, of course, exist in Handel's
time) and French Horns. 


Dave
From: zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Viola sola mind blowa (was Re: Tubas (was Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas)))
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:00:51 GMT
Organization: HP SSD R & D

jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:

> I still think that 'euphonia' is more euphemistic.  By the way,
> what the plural of 'tuba'?  'Tubae'?

Tubim?

Claudia
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dwong@chopsuey.pico (David G. Wong - VIP user)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Reply-To: dwong@chopsuey.pico
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:57:52 GMT

In article 44225@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.235049.23025@newsgate.sps.mot.com> dwong@chopsuey.pico writes:
>>In article 62493@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>
>[lots of stuff deleted]
>
>>>Then I met Mr. Mahler and Mr. Wagner and all hell broke loose.  I have not been
>>>the same since.  A few months ago I went back and listened to most of my Brahms,
>>>and I did enjoy it...but it did not induce the huge emotional catharsis that I
>>>am now a glutton for.  But there is much that I have not heard...such as all
>>>of the violin concerto, or the German Requiem.  Also, the little chamber music
>>>that I have heard I liked, so I would like to hear some more.
>>>
>>>This is not to insult the Brahms faithful out there.  I would like nothing more
>>>than to have some music of his grab me by the throat and make me beg...
>>>
>>>Any recommendations?
>>
>>For sophisticated Mahler listener like you.  How about the German Requiem and also
>>the violin concerto?  BTW, have you played or sit thru the complete production of
>>Wagner's RING before?  I think you may change your mind about Brahms once you have
>>done that.
>>
>>d. wong
>>
>What do you mean?  Do you mean all at once?  Or spread out over 4 evenings?
>If the latter is the case, then yes - I have watched it on video over 4 days,
>on MANY occasions, and I have listened to it, in the same manner, at least
>a DOZEN times.  Many of these times included reading the score also, which I
>own.  And the more I get of this incredible living, breathing, all-encompassing
>creation called the Ring, the more fanatical I become.  So if this changes my
>mind about Brahms, it may be in a way that you wouldn't like...
>
>Mike 
>

First of all, let me say that I also like Wagner and Mahler very much.  But it is hard
for me to see you still complain about Brahm's music after you can read the RING score
and listen to some of the singing at the same time contiuously for 4 DAYS!  I am sure
one can easily find some passages with less emotional catharsis in the RING than the beginning of Brahms's 4th symphony, or the 2nd movement of the violin concerto (not to
mention the most difficult to play), or his double concerto for violin and cello, and
many many other pieces.  After all, there is nothing wrong being fanatical about any
great composer's music.  But it is not convincing enough to discredit Brahms!  How
can we say Brahms is overrated if we are not sure what rating we should use? 

dw.    




Newsgroups: rec.music.classical