From: samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Rage (Re: Khomainy, etc.)
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:38:47 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

In article <Jan21.203255.35243@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> bh437292@lance.colostate.edu writes:
>
>In article <nabeel.727553296@oracle.sce.carleton.ca>, nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul) writes:
>|> In <Jan20.163454.28872@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Basil Hamdan) writes:
>|> 
>|> " |> > There is a cultural newsgroup specifically designed to handle
>|> " |> > religious issues in Islam.   This post is of no cultural 
>|> " |> > significance to Arabs whatsoever,
>|> 
>|> " You must be dense.  I said it is of no CULTURAL significance
>|> " to ARABS.   This is a religious issue, it may be relavant
>|> " to soc.culture.islam, not here.  This group is supposed
>|> " to deal with Arabs not Muslims, so take your propaganda 
>|> " off our turf.
>|> 
>|> " You posted the crap, you are the one spreading discord, at least
>|> " have the courage to assume your acts. 
>|> 
>|>    
>|>    I think you are passing through an emotional peak nowadays, I wonder
>|> why you did not make any complaint about transforming this CULTURAL
>|> group into a POLITICAL extention of tpm. Don't overreact, take it easy.
>
>
>
>Here we go again. Another war of words on s.c.a.  
>When Mr.  Abu-Khater posted a Fatwa denouncing Shia's as 
>Kuffar, only Mr. Ilyess Bdaira and Iba'a ouichek 
>criticized the post.  Even worst Mr. Nabeel aka Bulbul
>blamed me for overreacting, and lack of consistency.
>I wonder why if he so consistent in his criticizing
>himself why did he not find anything wrong and did not 
>criticize statements such as this one made by Mr. Abu-Khater:
>
>|> It is not propaganda, here at waterloo we have 10s of Iranians who
>|> admitted many things regarding Shia faith,
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
>as if being of Shia faith is some kind of a crime against
>religion.    
>
>I did not ask the political posters to keep their stuff off
>s.c.a., because I had gotten used to them.  I also ignore
>all the stricly religious postings that show up
>from time to time since as some have said Islam is part 
>of our culture.  But this was not a simple strictly
>religious post.  This was the first post on s.c.a. that 
>openly calls the Shi'as as Kuffar.  Even if, the Fatwa was 
>simply a theological opinion, would it not be better debated
>in soc.culture.islam ?
>But debating  Islamic theology was not the goal of
>Mr. Abu-Khater, he just wanted to do his duty, and
>inform some of us s.c.a. readers that we are not Muslims
>in Mr. Albany's opinion.  Mr. Abu-Khater posts the
>material then plays innocent and asks me to take
>my grievances to Mr. Albany.  Please let it be known,
>to Bulbul, Abu-Khater, and all the silent readers
>that agree with the analysis of Mr. Albany, that such
>an attitude is why we, will never be united.  We are
>tribes not a nation, each trying to show the other
>one wrong.
>I hope in spite of  that, some of our readers
>will find time contribute something that is really cultural
>and constructive that Iba'a started under the title
>"something new", instead of contributing to our continued
>decline as a culture.
>
>
>
>|> 
>|> ** Don't get me wrong if I am acting so distracted,
>|>    I'm thinking about the fireworks that come up when you smile.
>|>                                                    The Pretenders
>|> 
>
>Basil

Some relevant meanings for the word "culture",taken directly
From the American,(from all other sources),heritage dictionary,1983:

1 - Intellectual and artistic taste and refinements.

2 - Development of the intellect through education and training.

3 - The arts, BELIEFS, customs,institutions and ALL OTHER products
	of  human work and THOUGHT  created by a people or a group at
	a PARTICULAR TIME.

So i understand BELIEFS to include RELIGION and also POLITICAL ideas,
i also understand THOUGHT to all possible facets of human ideas, 
just as i understand PARTICULAR TIME to mean "current and past history",
and in the same sense "a people or a group" to include both arabs AND
muslims.

I should also say that the first and second meanings include:
Science,litreture ,education, art (in all its forms i may say
including,"Al-Ra'ass Al-Shari'i",which i hope no one will discuss
seriosly,but they can and may be will).

So for anyone to say that we should or should not discuss this or
that on this group is merely trying to assume the role of a judge 
or a moderator which this group does not have.

I assume that everyone regards s.r.i to be purely islamic,where all
possible aspects of this great religion should be discussed and
learned,and that s.p.m to be a wide mixture of both s.r.i and s.c.a
that includes also other than arabs and muslims.

We all should not be scared of THOUGHTS and IDEAS if we ever want
to be counted and ever to have a place in human development.

We should try to restrict ourself from PERSONAL ATTACK and limit
ourselfs to ISSUES, remember ex-president BUSH,(by the way i made
a horrible mistake in 1988 and voted for the guy), he stopped talking
about ISSUES when he found out that he is weak on them,what he did
then is to resort to personal attacks which did nothing to help him,
so for those of us who take the lead from the "strong" i hope you
see what happened for bush, and for those of us who take the lead
from their heritage and history i think we already,(most of us),
are approaching discussions in a better manner.












P.S.:
____
The above reflects my opinions only,they by no means reflect those of
my employer.