From: mick@maxine.wpi.edu (Ravi Narayan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:51:09 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Somewhere, Sometime, Thus Spake weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl):
:- In article mick@maxine.wpi.edu (Ravi Narayan) writes:
:- |> :- 
:- |> 	i have had occasion to ride with a couple of friends of mine who
:- |> 	ride harley davidson motorcycles. i have ridden one of the
:- |> 	motorcycles a few times, but that would hardly provide me a
:- |> 	complete insight into h-d motorcycling, if such a thing exists
:- |> 	unique from general motorcycling. in fact, these are the reasons
:- |> 	that prompt me to request the h-d riders to stay with r.m.
:- 
:- Hm...Let me see if I got this right:
:- Since you, for what reason whatever, are lacking the sensors to grasp the 
:- difference between a Harley Davidson and another motorcycle, you want
:- to _FORCE_ Harley riders _AS A GROUP_ to stay on rec.moto?

	i think you got that wrong. what i meant was that in answering
	"yes, i have ridden a h-d motorcycle" i do not have
	justification to form an opinion or judgement on h-d riding (as
	i might if i just wanted to prove a point). again, i reiterate,
	i have no means to FORCE any group to stay anywhere. in the
	absence of convincing justification for the formation of the new
	group, i see no reason to vote "yes". as a motorcyclist, who
	rides with h-d riders, who discusses issues with other bikers on
	rec.moto i would prefer the h-d riders to post to rec.moto.
	contrary to what some might feel, i think that the atmosphere in
	rec.moto cannot summed by the attitude of a few. i am willing to
	wager my last penny that statistics will show that
	harley-flaming is in no way the standard practice on rec.moto.
	as far as differences between motorcycles go, each motorcycle is
	different. my 89 gs500e is different from another 89 gs500e just
	as your harley is different from my gs500e.

:- Is that the person that wrote:
:- 	in essence therefore, the voting process is directed not at
:- 	anyone out there, but at people who can participate and vote
:- 	with intelligence... note the word directed (as against "meant
:- 	for"). anyone with any "god-given" cause can of course vote, but
:- 	i would hope the voting process is not directed at them.
:- 
:- 	an intelligent voter is one who understands and appreciates the
:-         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:- 	issues involved, studies the charter, and ascertains the need
:- 	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:- 	and justification (not the same thing) for a new group *based*
:- 	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:- 	on the information provided in the charter.
:- 	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:- 
:- Have you EVER, EVER, considered the yardstick you'd like the criteria 
:- voters to comply to TO YOURSELF???

	only because i go by the same measure do i request the people
	that presented the charter to make clear to me in what manner
	h-d motorcycling is exclusive of general motorcycling. your
	basic assumption that i am going to vote "no" could be the cause
	of your confusion. if the proponents of rec.moto.harley do not
	come forward with their arguements (instead of attacking
	apparent "anti-harley bigots") i shall not support the
	formation of the group through my vote. at no point do i mention
	that i shall vote against the group (which i shall if i had been
	involved in this matter from the beginning and had sufficient
	info about the mailing-list and its members etc., that led me to
	conclude that the group is not justified). if instead you choose
	to assume that i am "crusading" against the formation of the
	group, i request you to provide me with evidence of it.

	in essence my message is: in the absence of info clarifying in
	what manner h-d motorcycling is exclusive of others, and based
	on my observation of rec.motorcycles over a period of close to
	two years, i see no need/justification for the formation of a
	new newsgroup and shall not support it with my vote. Having
	missed the earlier discussion related to the mailing-list, its
	members/strength etc., i have no reason to vote against the
	group either, should such information lead to such a conclusion.
	having said that, as a motorcyclist who has been riding for
	close to 10 years now and who has ridden with/discussed issues
	with every kind of rider, i would like the harley riders to
	stick to rec.moto.

	i see no discrepancy in my opinions on this matter. i leave
	interpretations to you.

:- Let me outta here, QUICK!!!!!

	happy riding,

	- ravi

	disclaimer: worcester polytechnic institute does not agree with
	me on most matters. the loss is not mine.


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.sig (n): a piece of mail with a fool at one  :  Ravi Narayan, CS, WPI   (0)
          end and flames at the other. (C).   :  DoD# tan90-SuzukiGS500E  H
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