HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Belief and science (Einstein)
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:23:35 GMT

cema@eng.umd.edu (Simon Hawkin) writes:

>May it happen that G-d does not *know*, but *believes* ?

>Since I am no religious, this is nothing more but a joke. However,
>what do the theologists think about that ?
      I am even less a theologist than you a religious, and I have very bad
      news for you, you are already no more than one half no religious. When
      you get to understand that He does not *believe* either, because knowing
      and believing are human attributes and He has no such limitation, you
      will unfortunately have become a simple conscient Jew.
>This is Simon Hawkin from Merry Land.
      Friendly of course, with humor, and absolutely no negative intention,
      this is Yaaqov Goldberg from Holy Land.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:19:44 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies WASTE BANDWIDTH

In article <1992Nov17.022910.24924@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:
>
>In article <emc.721961733@ro> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>
># >>>>>>>>>Herman said:
># >>>>>>>>>Kach is racist
># >>>>>>>>Isaac said:
># >>>>>>>>no they are not
># >>>>>>>Israel said:
># >>>>>>>yes they are
># >>>>>>Shlomo said
># >>>>>>they are not
># >>>>>Moishe said:
># >>>>>but they are
># >>>>Haimi said:
># >>>>define racist
># >>>Yaacov said:
># >>>Kach is racist
># >>Shmuel said:
># >>no they are not
># >Mikhael said:
># >yes they are
>
># A racist will never admit to being one.  He/she will admit to
># the existence of racists, but his/her policies will never
># be racist, by definition.  Save your breath and our bandwith
># ladies and gentlemen.
>
>        Funny, but almost the same can be said about people who engage in
>smear tactics by calling others racist.
>
># Let's just make sure these people never get their hands on real
># power or influence.
>
>        Whom?  The racists or Kach?

Cheap, infantile joke. Obviously eli thinks Kach is racist.
>--
>        There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
>at math and those that are not.
>
>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Go back to alt.messianic (was Re: Conversion Question)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:30:50 GMT

In article <9211191656.AA05323@relay2.UU.NET> johnson@itzb.com writes:
>I follow a legitimate interpretation, based on the teaching of a scholar of
>the tannaim (sages of the mishna) named Yeshu.  His interpretation is as
>legitimate as any other interpretation, and noone has the right to tell me
>that because I am a Messianic Jew that I'm not following legitimate Judaism.

Amazing! You've found something we all agree on! Namely, that you
are *not* following legitimate Judaism. If you want to worship
Yashka ben-Who-the-Hell-Knows, we can't stop you, but keep your
silly godling OFF of soc.culture.jewish.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
                --Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Subject: Hebrew Audio Tapes
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:44:41 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

I'm having problems trying to find audio tapes that will match the following
books.

Hebrew through prayer : Karen Trager Rossel 
Biblical Hebrew       : Menahem Mansoor

I am looking for a mailorder location or someone willing to send the
material to me.  I haven't had much luck finding material in Colorado.

Shalom
daniel
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 23 Nov 92 07:47:39
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Nov18.215925.3513@cis.ohio-state.edu>
	<FAIGIN.92Nov18142024@soldan.aero.org>
	<1992Nov23.131109.9113@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:11:09 GMT

On Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:11:09 GMT, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) said:

> What you fail to realize (accept?) is that there are (and throughout
> history have been) Jews for howm our religion is critical and that for
> these people it _is_ wrong to treat a non-Jew as a Jew (as far as
> religious obligation, ritual, etc is concerned).

I can appreciate that. In that case, at least be reasonable to the person, let
them know patiently why in their particular case you can't treat them right,
and offer to work with them to rectify the situation.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20259 sci.logic:2076 sci.philosophy.meta:2605
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,sci.logic,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Belief and Logic (was re: Belief and science (Einstein))
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:35:11 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Nov15.221156.22036@guinness.idbsu.edu>
holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:

>In article <Bxo0IB.H7y@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
>hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>>In article <1992Nov12.174400.4716@guinness.idbsu.edu>
>>holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:

RH:
>>>It is mathematically provable that the class of all true sentences in
>>>a reasonable language is impossible to define in that language
>>>(Tarski's Paradox).  In order to avoid this phenomenon, one has to
>>>make the expressive capabilities of one's language _weaker_ (making
>>>the language more expressive does not help!).  In particular, it can
>>>be applied to ideas in the mind of God, as follows:

HR:
>>This is the case if the language has only proofs of finite length.  Since
>>we do not know how to do infinitary operations, although we can handle 
>>some of them, we cannot be sure of what God can or cannot do.

RH:
>The argument works just as well with infinitary syntax, as long as the
>lanaguage used is powerful enough to describe its own syntax (which
>certainly seems likely in the Divine case).

Herman is absolutely right in the literal Cantorian sense.  Genuine
infinitary syntax, as distinguished from merely transfinite Tarskian
languages, is _a priori_ ineffable.  (Would Randall agree that, at
least in the present theological context, Cantorian set theory is
inherently superior to the godless NF variants?)  Note that there
exists a very respectable diagonal argument to the effect that the
syntax of natural languages falls in the former category.  (See _The
Vastness of Natural Languages_ by Langendoen and Postal.)  Perhaps
that is the reason why the notion of natural language proof has
managed to resist all analytic efforts for two and a half millenia.

>>-- 
>>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
>>Phone: (317)494-6054
>>hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
>>{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)

>-- 
>The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
>above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
>opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
>or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: early man.
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:52:52 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

Lets say that we find bones of a, science say,
is 10000 years old man.
Do we have to treat it as a remains of a man ?
What about 12 milion year old human bones ? 
-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
/ Hillel P. Applebaum  |> ISRAEL - where all
/ Jerusalem,   Israel  |  jews should live !
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Two creation accounts in Genesis.  Need help
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
Distribution: soc
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:07:54


I seem to remember that someone, a couple of months ago, mentioned a
quotation something along the lines of:

   The reason that there are two creation stories in Genesis
   is to show show anyone who believes that either is literally true is
   foolish.

I don't remember the exact quotation.  I have a vague recollection of the
claim that it was Rashi, but I could be wrong.

Any information and references would be greatly appreciated.

-- Frank Yellin
   fy@lucid.com
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: NO WAY! (Re: A message from Kach to the Arabs?)
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:35:55 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <92322.135608YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET (Yaakov Kayman) writes:

>A grenade attack in East Jerusalem?!! I personally would not believe for
>a moment that Kakh people would do such a thing, except possibly with
>IMMEDIATE EXTREME provocation, and what constitutes THAT can certainly be
>debated IF or when a major outrage occurs RIGHT BEFORE such an attack.

>I don't believe for one INSTANT that this attack was the work of Kakh!
>Rather, it was almost certainly that of some group seeking to further
>muddy Kakh's name. Kakh is not so stupid, nor is it so amoral, let alone
>immoral. THis, after all, is MURDER, hardly anything ***RABBI*** Kahane
>might ever have given his approval to!

I'm sorry that Kahane Chai and Kach didn't say the same thing that you
did (or at least weren't quoted in the next day's paper as having done
so) but rather said that although they didn't do it, they don't
condemn it.  I understand from your words that you do disapprove of
this act, and I'm curious why it is that these organizations do not
disapprove.

Note that I do not accuse either of these organizations of having done
the action, I am criticizing them for their reaction.

BTW, I'm curious what sort of IMMEDIATE and EXTREME provocation might
hypothetically provoke Kakh to do such a thing.  Now I could
understand that if a given person committed an act of terror that they
might feel it neccesarry to engage in reprisals against that one
person.  Do I read too much into your words in that it seems to me
that following an I&E provocation that they might in fact engage in
violence against randomly selected people?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
From: friedenb@case-l5.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:16:18 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@case-l5.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


I had shabbos lunch at a professors house recently and he told me the
following.  I do not know if it is his original philosophy, or if he
read it somewhere.  

It can be proven that :    i(Pi)                          
			  e	= -1      (Where Pi is 3.1415927....)

Consider the following:

e   is the basic element of Calculus
i   is the basic element of the imaginary number system
Pi  is the basic element of Geometry
=   is the basic element of Algebra
-   is the basic element of Addition (along with + which could be included in
                                      the above equation before the e)
1   is the basic element of the real number system

This equation proves (?) that G-d must exist.  Who could create a
universe where all of the basic elements of mathematics could combine
to make such a simple equation?  


Sorry if there are flaws in this.  As I said, it is not my original
thought.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20577 misc.headlines:7109 talk.politics.misc:61059 misc.legal:20213
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: The NYPD situation (was: Say it ain't so)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:56:23 GMT
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93


In article <1992Nov17.231330.29751@bony1.bony.com>, 
jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) said:

> Like I said in another posting, I wasn't present and wasn't
> reporting it as a journalist.  So let's call it a riot.  It says
> something about the relationship of the Mayor with his police force
> when they can riot against him, don't you think?

Yes, it says something.  But exactly _what_ it says is still a matter
of opinion.  Some people might view it as a sign that the "rogue cop"
phenomenon in that city had gotten completely out of hand and that it
was time to send in federal troops to shut down the local police and
restore order.

> > If the police didn't go around killing people under suspicious
> > circumstances, they'd have a lot more credibility (and I'm not
> > just talking about the above case; there were several others.)
> > [David Marc Nieporent]
>
> The police are generally vindicated in these cases.  Your continued
> suspicions make your postings more appropriate to alt.conspiracy.

"Generally vindicated" does not equal "always vindicated."  I hope
you're not saying that if 95% of police shootings are justified we
should just let the other 5% slide...
From: hook@eagle.geog.ubc.ca (Chris Hook)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:10:32 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.geog.ubc.ca
Keywords: antisemitism

In article <leonid.722204101@spssig>, leonid@spss.com (Leonid Feygin) writes:
|> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:
|>
|> And only 37% strongly anti-semitic blacks after all this brainwashing?
|> Or is it only the beginning?
|> --
|> Leonid Feygin     SPSS, Inc.     leonid@spss.com     (312) 329-3639

I was reading just yesterday a report that was stating that demonstrable
Anti-Sematic behaviour is up 35% in North America in the past two years,
each year surpasing the year before it.

In a similiar vien, can anyone tell me as to where:

1: so many new conspiracy theories get their "Jews undermining the world"
   ideas from? In fact, in a recent seminar/summit in
   Eastern Europe it was determined that, to date, no substantial
   underlying reason seems to be prevalent as to why the "Jews taking over
   the world" theories exist. They do seem to exist most in areas where
   there is much instability and hard times. Yet there is never a consistent
   basis as to why this theory is always dragged up in such cases.

2: all these "We are the real Jews" theories come from. That is, the 
   Anglo-European/American being the real Jew, the Mormon being the real
   Jew, etc.. These thoeries, at least to me, always seem to come part
   and parcel with Anti-Semitism (the so-called "Real Jews" againts the Jews?).
   How strange and inconsistent.


Chris Hook -  Computing Systems/Network Manager
Atmospheric & Geographic Sciences
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C.
e-mail: hook@geog.ubc.ca
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Quiz
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:44:17 GMT

At the recent meeting of the General Assembly of the Council of
Jewish Federations, a woman was seen wearing a sweatshirt with
the MCI slogan "If not now, when.  If not us, who?"

Shoshana Cardin asked the woman if she knew that the slogan
was not original.  The woman replied that she was aware the
that the slogan was originally used by the Clinton campaign.

The woman apparently did not know that the phrase originally
originated (;-)) with Hillel.  :-(

-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sex and Dawud Melekhanu(Yemenite pronunciation)
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:50:10 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)

In article <4457@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>>>Maybe you should check his credentials.  A Rabbi named Michael??

>>I don't get it?  Are you saying Jews cannot be named after angels?

Actually, we're not supposed to even pronounce angels' names, except
those that have come into common usage for names.

>I was half-joking.

It would have been funny if you were correct.  Rabbi Christopher, for
example, would be ridiculous.

>		     Actually, I though Michael/Michel was a Christian
>name.

Christians can also be named Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and so on.  So what?
"Mikhael" is Hebrew for "who is like God".  The angel himself is mentioned
three times in Daniel 10,12.  There are a few human Mikhael's in Tanakh.
The father of one of the spies (Numbers 13:13) was named Mikhael.  There
are one or two later Mikhael's in 1 Chronicles 5.  Another Mikhael was
a prince, the son of King Yehoshaphat (2 Chron 21:2).  And yet another
(Ezra 8:8) was the father of one who returned from Babylon with Ezra.

>       I am not trying to say anything here except for my surprise
>at hearing of a rabbi named Michael.

Let's just say, I'm not personally insulted.
-- 
-Mikhael Peretz Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: relations (was Oral Sex)
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:28:02
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: mgross@halibut.nosc.mil's message of Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:02:45 GMT

On Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:02:45 GMT, mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)
said: 
> Does anyone have recommendations on books that deal with the Jewish
> viewpoint on love, marriage, and marital relations? 

Doesn't Maurice Lamm have a book out titled "The Jewish Way in Love and
Marriage"? Mightn't this be what you're looking for?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Etiquette, Modesty, Dating, Love, Marriage, Sex and Related Issues
------------------------------------------------------------------

Friedman, Manis.  _Doesn't Anyone Blush Anymore?_

Lamm, [Rabbi] Maurice.  _The Jewish Way in Love and Marriage_.
     ISBN 0-06-064916-X.

# Pliskin, Rabbi Zelig.  _Guard your Tongue_.  (Adapted from
     _Chofetz Chaim_).  NJ, Gross Bros., 1975.

     [R' Pliskin's adaptation of _Chofetz Chaim_ is about the laws of
      _Lashon Hara_: improper speech, slander, gossip, insults, etc.]


# Stolper, [Rabbi] Pinchas M.  _Jewish Alternatives in Love, Dating and
     Marriage_.  Lanham, MD: University Press of America, Inc. 1967,1984.
     Co-published by the NCSY.


--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Kach Policies
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:51:12 GMT
Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v3.05.


Assuming that Kach is indeed responsible for the following event, I
would be quite interested in hearing how the following action can be
justified within a Jewish context.

------- From Israeline --- Nov 16, 1992 -------

Hand Grenade Thrown in Moslem Quarter Killing 70 Year-old Arab and
Injuring Eight
 
Israel Radio, KOL YISRAEL, reports that a hand grenade exploded
this afternoon in a market in the Moslem Quarter of Jerusalem
killing a 70 year-old Arab and injuring 8 others.  Before the
incident, someone called a reporter from the newspaper HADASHOT,
saying that the Kach movement intended to stage an attack in
eastern Jerusalem. After the hand grenade had gone off, someone
again called the same journalist saying that the Kach movement was
taking responsibility for the grenade attack. The commander of the
Jerusalem Police said that an intensive investigation is being
conducted to find those responsible for the attack. No suspects
have yet been apprehended.




--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bosnia-Hercegovina
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:46:04 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <2NskuB9w165w@infopls.chi.il.us> chetnik@infopls.chi.il.us (Andre Popov) writes:
>
>            THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUGUST 17, 2992          y A13
> 
>              TRUTH IS THE VICTIM IN BOSNIA
>                  -------------------------------
>       Before We Risk American Lives, Shouldn't We Get The Facts?

This is only an opinion from the N.Y.T.

I suppose the Bosnians do not have enough $$$ to pay off the American
Media to collectively support a government war in the Name Of Humanity
And Decency ... or even to impose economic sanctions against Serbia.

>"Today only half the Yugoslav story is being told to Western audiences-
>the Croatian side."
>                          -Peter Brock, American journalist, frequent
>                           visitor of Yugoslavia, now political editor
>                           of the El Paso Daily Herald. 7/16/92

I guess you NBC Nightly News and CNN is dedicated to enhancing this
propoganda ...

If you are for "Justice, Peace, Democracy, & Freedom", you wouldn't
think twice about perpetuating these stereotypes and biasedness
against a religious minority calling for autonomy.  It isn't just a
civil war - it is a war of hatred against Muslims, whom they do not
want to have their own state.

I know in Skokie, in the early 80's, there were protests against the
Nazi Party in Illinois from marching there.  Yet you support the
oppression against another religious minority in Yugoslavia??

Even the Jewish leaders in this country condemned the situation there.
I suppose you will attempt to justify, in another month or two, the
number of deaths in the concentration camp-prisons, where 200+ Muslim
prisoners were murdered in a single day - or the statistic that 450,000
Muslims are expected to die this winter from starvation and cold - or the
death statistics now from the recent outbreak of the Typhoid Epidemic -
or of the prisoners in the camps who are not just SKINNY but SKELETONS -
not to mention the deaths of children and other AUTROCITIES, like the rape
and sodomy of women on a daily basis.

These are proven facts, perhaps which you wish to ignore because you
really hold hatred towards Muslims.  Unfortunately YOU know have the
story and are only promoting this hatred and double standards.  I hope
people have enough sense to realize this.
 
Anisa
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish