HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Level Limits
Keywords: AD&D, races, experience
Date: 19 Dec 92 06:18:24 GMT
Reply-To: mccall@oswego.Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

In article <BzBp0G.IpJ@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>, kinsler@physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler) writes:
> Now I know that a lot of you guys *hate* the level limits for the
> sub-human ... oops ;-) ... I mean non-human races, but I don't want 
> to hear about that. What I do want to know is if anyone has 
> "softened" the limits in some fashion (eg by doubling EXP costs to 
> rise to the next level), and how that worked out.


  My solution to T$R's level limits was to take the Rolemaster(tm) approach and
  throw them out the window..and never missed them. I didnt see any reason to 
  charge double EXP to demi-human(they're no more slow-witted than your average
  human). But then the race-level limits are from the foundry of the mythical
  game balance(which is a euphemism for...`I have no logical reason for this rule'
  If the only reason for a rule is 'game-balance' then it probably doesnt belong,
  and balancing or such, should be in the campaign world, not the rulebook...
 
  All of this IMHO, of course.
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:37:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd3.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Dec15.182158.3790@dale.ksc.nasa.gov> rramser@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Rusty Ramser) writes:
>When my group played, I was typically the DM (or GM, or
>whatever people think that particular gaming role should
>be called nowadays -- I'm sticking with DM.)  In my
>adventures, I frequently incorporating many "thinking"
>scenarios.  Sometimes there were short puzzles to
>There would typically be several PCs in my group who had
>INT scores in the 15-18 range -- the problem arises from
>the fact that ... (how do I say this nicely?) ... well,
>let's say that these high-intelligence PCs were being run
>by real people with maybe a real intelligence somewhere
>in the 9-12 range.  See the problem yet?

	Er.... no. I don't think I've EVER encountered a serious gamer
in the 9-12 range. That's average intelligence, and the game attracts
the very intelligent.

	In fact, since I use the bell curve to represent INT, most gamers
start at 16, average 17-18, and go on from there...

	But to the meat of your question, if you feel that the character
could solve it, you can

	1) give the player little hints, until he finally gets it,

	2) give a simple roll versus intelligence and give them the 
solution

	3) combinations of the above (roll for a hint...)


			Sea Wasp
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cdb@CS.Stanford.EDU (Craig Davis Becker)
Subject: Re: bards
Keywords: bards killers
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:01:04 GMT

In article <1gb26lINNd72@crcnis1.unl.edu>, pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard) writes:

[ stuff about over-powerful bard (and other) kits deleted... ]

I guess all this goes to show that at best, all the stuff in the
"Complete X" books should be taken with a grain of salt. At worst,
it should be ignored.

IMHO, these books are probably best as idea sources and aids for developing
character personalities, and not so good as rulebooks. Of course, I don't 
own any of them, so my opinion is probably worthless, but that never stops me. :)

The campaigns I am involved in do not make use of any rules
modifications presented in these books, and I suspect that saves us 
at least a little grief in terms of players getting upset over 
class-power balance issues.

craig
From: proberts@castle.ed.ac.uk (P Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Level Limits
Keywords: AD&D, races, experience
Date: 17 Dec 92 11:01:54 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Many years ago the DM in our AdnD campaign rejigged the experience
system.  One of the things he did was abolish level limits and replace
them with experience penalties.  Basically, the lower the old level
limit, the smaller percentage of earned experience points the character
actually received.  I can't remember the exact percentages but I can try
and look them up.  It seemed to work fairly well and no-one complained
even though it only worked to the advantage of one character before the
campaign folded.
From: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: questions
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:27:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <42723@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> dtnguyen@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Take Life One) writes:
>1) Has anyone tried converting teh Rolemaster critical system to
>AD&D ? I'd appreciate any and all info on this.

Ah, let an old fart like me answer this:

The Original Arms Law had such conversion notes, and I'll try to reproduce
them from memory.  


First, double the hit points a character has--they all NEED it.  The Arms
Law/Claw Law system was made for a warrior who had an average of 110 HP
at 10th level.  D&D has an average of 55 at 10th (or higher if you let your
fighters all use various supercharacter roll-up methods).

Next, a Fighter has a +5 to OB with a weapon for every level he has
proficiency in that weapon.  This does not diminish with level (unlike
the Rolemaster rules), but the fighter also cannot gain more than +5 OB
per level.  Extra proficiency slots could be used for an extra +5/slot.

Clerics (and, I think, thieves) get at +3 OB per level per weapon.

Mages get a +2 OB per level per weapon.

Strength "to hit" bonuses give a +5 OB/bonus on all melee and thrown weapons.
Strength "damage" bonuses give a +2 OB/bonus on all melee and thrown weapons.
Dexterity reaction bonuses give a +5 OB per bonus on all missile/thrown
weapons.

Thus, a character with a +1 "to hit" and a +2 "damage" would have a +12 OB
for melee and thrown weapons.  Treat magical bonuses to weapons the same
way.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: help:  I'm thinking of running a PBEM
From: geoffrey@yvax.byu.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 13:16:17 -0700
Reply-To: geoffrey@yvax.byu.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: BYU

	While we're on the topic, I thought it might be a good idea to suggest posting
your suggestions here rather than mailing them to me.  It'd be nice if a
discussion started up about it.  I can use all the ideas I can get.

Thanks again

geoffrey@yvax.byu.edu
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge A. Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:23:39 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <584@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>	Unless you (A) remove the aging BS from the Wish spell (why 
>aging? I don't know. I always figured it made more sense for it to injure
>the person physically or psychically, but aging seemed a little silly),

It's as good as anything else...  Why not aging?

>or (B) say that Wish imposes a STRAIN on anything (other than gods, demons,
>etc) that uses it, and this strain shows up differently depending on
>your race. In humans, it ages you by 5 years; in Elves, it removes 1d4 
>HP PERMANENTLY. (you could get them back by gaining a level, but that
>in itself is a pretty steep cost...) Or something like that.

1d4 HP permanently?  That's even worse than aging! 9 wishes, and he's screwed
(Constition bonuses notwithstanding).  Give the guy *some* chance.  Gain them
back if he gains a level?  Sorry?  He's already going to be at his max level
(unless he has a 19 Int in which case he can gain ONE more level, and then
he's done, period, no more levels at all).


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: Re: Waterdeep info wanted
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:09:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.205731.10862@linus.mitre.org>, cfrye@linus.mitre.org (Curtis D Frye) writes:
|> I'm beginning to design a complex based on the Undermountain scenario and would like to use the materials referenced in FR1:  The North (not the full title) or
|> FR3 : Waterdeep.  My question is whether or not I should pick up either or both
|> of these supplements, wait for Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, or do my own thing to
|> develop the sewer system of a section of the city.  Right now I'm leaning
|> toward buying both FR1 and FR3, but I would like you folks' input.  I'll keep
|> all responses on file and would be happy to email the results to anybody
|> that's interested.
|> 
|> Please post replies or send email to cfrye@ciis.mitre.org or
|>                                      cdfrye@osprey.mitre.org

Wel met,

  I tried to do the same thing.  Unfortunately FR1 and FR3 are out of print and I
couldn't find them anywhere.  So instead I bought Undermountain and City System
(a box set containing huge maps of Waterdeep, but little city information).  I
would wait for Volo's Guide or make your own.  Also read the 3rd Avatar Series
book, Waterdeep, to get more information on this city.

Until swords part,

Don Clayton
a.k.a. Admiral Maverick, DM of the Drow
My brain, my thoughts, my words.
"I'm all lost in the Supermarket.  I can no longer shop happily.
 I came in here for the special offer, guaranteed personality."
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge A. Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:58:43 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Man, I've been reading some really far out ways of keeping a psionicist
imprisoned....  Maybe it's just me....  How's this:

Capture him.  That's the first step.  I don't care how.  That's not part
of the problem.  The problem:  Once you've caught him, how do you *keep*
him?

Put a helm on him with a locking strap.  He can't break the strap or pick
the lock.  So he can't remove the helm.  It's that simple.  If you're
afraid he might break the lock, keep him shackled to a wall, or bound,
or whatever.  A 1gp helm is all you need.

So what's this about parasites in glass jars, and cutting off forearms,
and prisons on other planes? :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: 2nd Edition Handbooks
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:14:17 GMT

Wel met,

  I'm interested in getting some of the 2nd Edition Handbooks (Warrior/Priest/Rouge/
Psionics) so I thought I would query for information from the net.  Some of the
people I know who play with them say that they make the characters way too powerful
(especially the Warrior one).  Is this true?  Any information would be nice (i.e.
I don't want to stand in the game store for 2 hours reading them and then walk
out having not bought them).  Thanks.

Until swords part.

Don Clayton
a.k.a. Admiral Maverick, DM of the Drow
My brain, my thoughts, my words.
"I'm all lost in the Supermarket.  I can no longer shop happily.
 I came in here for the special offer, guaranteed personality."
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Small query on multiple mages in a party...
Date: 16 Dec 1992 02:39:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


It is usually assumed that one learned ones basic starting spells
from his/her master's spellbook, so I rule that you can copy
between spellbooks without losing the original copy.  Generally,
some sort of agreement is set forth between those doing it (aka

a spell for spell agreement, or monetary exchange).
####
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: wsbusr1@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Boudewijn Wayers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:43:01 GMT
Reply-To: wsbusr1@urc.tue.nl

seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>In article <78347@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge A. Diaz) writes:
>>Put a helm on him with a locking strap.
>>So what's this about parasites in glass jars, and cutting off forearms,
>>and prisons on other planes? :-)

>	Maybe because most people looked at the rule that says "helms
>shut off psis" and realized how ridiculous that rule is, and jettisoned
>the rule. 

Maybe this rule was implemented just for these purposes. Every class
can be "disabled" somehow, so why not a psionicist?
-- 
Boudewijn Wayers, wsbusr1@urc.tue.nl.
Keeper of the Great Net Spellbook and Prayerbook.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cobra@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Brian Dunphy)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:54:19 GMT

In article <1gia2fINNco0@life.ai.mit.edu> adair@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jonathan Edward Adair) writes:
>The point is, what can a psionicist pass himself/herself off as,
>other than a mage?  A (wink-wink) armorless fighter?  At best,
>maybe a thief.  [Note: maybe psionicists can wear armor. ours
>never did, and I never bothered to read the handbook, much less
>line TSR's pockets for it.]

That's a good question.  We had a psionicist try and pass himself off as
an archer.  But when we noticed that that he couldn't hit the broad side
of a bran from 15 feet away, we didn't believe it any more.  We even had
one fight, where he was shooting at peoples, and a mage came and took his
bow from him, and shoot it for him, and even did better than th psi-archer
did (Mage got lucky rolls.  But the psi-guy still was terrible).  What can
a psi-guy hide as?  Why is he hdiing, anyway?

briand.


cobra@catt.ncsu.edu               "A little nonsense now and then
Brian Patrick Dunphy               is cherished by the wisest men."
                                         Willy Wonka.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cvl@athena.mit.edu (Craig V Lewis)
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:45:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.223648.3531@u.washington.edu> scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
>Ummm... actually, it does make a big difference.  First of all,
>any immortal race is going to be extremely knowledgable.  All elves
>should know a *lot*.  You'd need to have an elven scribe in every court.
>There would be no need for books of history.... just make sure an elf knows,
>and...  And shouldn't elves be able to gain exp for a long time? So all
>elves should be 20/20/20, since they have all the time in the world
>(literally).  And if a PC wants to know something, if he can't think
>of the answer, then is father should have heard of something.  And how about
>the population problem?

Immortality is not intelligence, the brain is still the limiting factor.  I 
suspect we all know old people whose judgement and reasoning we consider 
unsound.  In addition, you assume that elves actively collect knowledge
at a rate equivalent to humans.  Why not spend a significant portion of 
their time on a single project, watching a tree grow, etc.  An elf could
start a garden in his youth that would be an old growth forest by the time 
he died.

I must admit that I have a problem with the question of why elves aren't
maxed out in all levels.  Granted some aren't talented enought to become
mages, fighters, etc, perhaps it could be said of others that they only 
adventure rarely.  Most normal people only rarely seek out violence, so
what about an elf who knows that he'll die 700 years too soon if he 
screws up?  No reason to die now when you can die in 400 years...

I tend to treat elves as being secretive and of monolithic patience.
They tend to spend 99% of their time in their own forests pursuing projects
of extended duration.  For example:  I consider elven chain mail to be the
product of the elves and not dwarves because it involves incredibly detailed
work for many years to produce.  A human might knit a sweater or build
a suit of plate in a few months, an elf might dedicate himself to the
creation of elven chain for 2-4 years, drawing and weaving the metal threads
in the right ways.

Oh, and population, why assume that elves are driven by the same hormonal
tidal waves that control human actions.  Perhaps having a child is a 
purely logical decision to them, pursued with care and planning and
totally controlled by the decision making process.  A child that takes 
40 years to grow up shouldn't be born every year, perhaps once every couple
centuries.  As for the death rate; disease, violence, accidents, suicide
(ritual and approved), etc.    It's hard to imagine they would actually
livethat long without encountering a major disaster of some form.

CVL
--
 Craig Lewis                            cvl@athena.mit.edu                   
 Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution   (508)457-2000x4814                   
 Nobody but me has any idea what I'm doing; and I don't know either.         

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden)
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:52:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.145226.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>In article <1gr21hINNgqd@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, operbwt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Barry Trottier) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec17.023455.24956@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>  
>> praxis@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Laura L Perkinson) writes:

>>> 	Sheesh! Where did folks get the idea that psionicists are so
>>> ungodly powerful? Sure they've got their strengths (one being: they're
[etc...]

>> Yeah, but the Psionicist can do the following:
[various ways for psionicists to kick ass]

[followed by various commentaries]

OK, but what happens to that awesome psionicist when he runs out of PSI 
points?  Say after taking on multiple opponents.  Sure, teleport away before
it's too late, but you can't run away forever and still get anything done.

Or, what happens when a psioicist runs into another psionically active
creature/NPC.  Whoa, now!  Bye bye free contacts!  Kiss off more points for
defense, and then pray for good luck on counterattack rolls.  Maybe if
you force a contact, you'll still have enough points to do some lobotomizing.
Then, if there's a melee going on around at the same time, and opportunities
for disruption exist...

It seems to me that a psionicist only has great superiority facing
non psionicists, and only if heavily loaded on psi points.

What has to be realized is that ANY class seems overly powerful if you 
create the right scenario, i.e. one suited for that class' strengths.


-- 
David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University
From: daly@ecs.umass.edu (Bryon Daly, ECE dept, UMass, Amherst)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: How many gp's = 1 pound?
Date: 12 Dec 92 14:39:07 GMT

Well, like the title said, how many gold pieces are there to the pound?
I know in the original rules, it was 10 gp's/lb.  But then in my newly
acquired 2nd ed. DM's guide, it clearly states on p. 134 that all coins
weigh 50 to the pound (a better number IMHO).  OK, fine, but then the Psionics
Handbook totally contradicts this in the Molecular Rearrangement science:

It states that the psionicist can affect 1 ounce/hour.  Then it states that
converting 10 copper pieces to 10 gold pieces would take 16 hours, which
clearly assumes the 10gp/lb weight.  If it used the 50gp/lb weight, it would
be more like 3.5 hours.  (The author also seems to assume that 10 copper 
pieces equals 1 gold piece...so I think he's all screwed up).

So which is it?  10gp/lb or 50gp/lb?  My question isn't so much about what's
"official", but which version is used in the books for spells, etc.  i.e.:
if a spell or psionic power states that it affects x gp's weight of 
material/level or something, which figure are they using?

-Bryon
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Annoying a psionicist ?
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:12:12 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <Bz7rHM.FDv@jabba.ess.harris.com>, jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com (Joe Carl Jr.) writes:
> In <Mf_sCIm00YUoQ4HMUb@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
> 
>>jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com (Joe Carl Jr.) writes:
>>> In <1992Dec11.222022.2965@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov wri\
>>> tes:
>>> 
>>> >In article <1992Dec11.140432.5090@cs.ruu.nl> mdrijsma@cs.ruu.nl (Michael Rijs\
>>> man) writes:
>>> >>[...]  So how do you(as DM) imprison your psionicists ?
>>> 
>>> The Spell Sepia Snake Sigil is great for keeping prisoners.
>>> 
>>> Force them to read something with the spell cast on it.  Tell them if they
>    		[..]
> Which I don't play with anyways.  Psionic powers like magic spell can be
> interrupted!
> 

	Our DM, who'd gotten tired of my psionics screwing up his PLANS for us,
treated me to this surprise:

	We (in the Athasian moutains west of Tyr) were travelling into the
mountains, and came to a rope bridge.   Unfortunately, it was guarded by a
Centaur on each end.  As we approached, the Centaur at our end said, 'No Good
characters may pass!"  The other Centaur walked to the midpoint of the bridge
from the other side and waited.  WELL, being the only Neutral Evil (and ONLY
evil character), I gave the big lug a wink and trondled down the bridge.  As I
approached the second Centaur, he blasted me with a Psionic Blast.  Naturally,
I hit 'm back, and scored!  The Centaur laughed, said something about how
"amusing this puny one was" and stepped aside to let me pass....

	Well, from thereon, I noticed that anything I did cost me twice (to a
max of 10) the PSPs than normal!  Cerebral Parasites! The Centaur had passed 'm
to me by attacking me first, and my reciprocating action sent them to me!

	It took me several weeks to figure out what was going on (with the help
of a Cure Disease spell).   But they never let on for ONCE what had happened,
though I knew all the monsters from the CPH.  It was good, though, I had to
admit.  Just a thought.


-- 

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// / / /      |/  / / //  // /  / / / //  /  /  / /  /  /  / /  /  / / / /// /
/  / /  /  ///  / /  /  Tom Payne *** Louisville, KY	 / //  /  /  /  / / / /
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