From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: net.rpg: magic.ideas
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:36:31 GMT

In article <KETIL.92Dec14152020@spurv.ii.uib.no> ketil@ii.uib.no writes:
>>cffitzge@IASTATE.EDU (Charles F Fitzgerald) said:
>> I would say that you and I just do not agree on the role of magic in a 
>>world.  I do not believe magic should be a science. I do not believe 
>>Psionics should be used in a world with magic... 

	I don't think there is a *single* role which magic should always 
have for all worlds. I think there is nothing wrong with role-playing in 
a fictional world where the scientific Laws of Nature include 'magical' 
effects (c.f. Space 1889, and other games where the Laws of Nature are 
different). 
	Obviously, different people are going to prefer different magic 
systems. Even the same people might prefer different magic systems at 
different times, or for different campaigns. 

>
>If you want a magic system, I suggest using one that has its roots in
>a stat/ability-system that is composed of "real world" values.  What I
>mean is no 'magic' stat, or even more vaguely defined 'power', 'force'
>or similat stats.  

	I agree. I prefer magic which is not just a 'tack-on' to a 
scientific world. The sort of magic I prefer is integral to the way a 
world works - and the abilities which control it will be the same ones 
which are seen in non-magical events. 

>
>I can see at least two approaces to this, using magic of the Wizard
>type, based on intellect and intelligence, studying ancient lore etc
>to learn, and perhaps using willpower or something to 'channel'
>energies the way you want them.
>
>Or you can take a more 'shamanly' approach, basing magic power in the
>unconscious, instinct or whatever, making magicking more of a 'gift'

	I think you are grouping together things which are unconnected. 
Many schools of Western 'hermetic' magic believe that the power of magic 
rests on the innate 'power' of the practitioner. You must know alot in 
order to cast spells, but power is very much a 'gift'. 
	Certainly this is true of Witchcraft, and I think to some degree 
of magic from later schools (i.e. the Golden Dawn and other secret 
societies). Knowledge is the prerequisite to cast spells, while instinct 
will guide your casting, and the power of your results comes from your 
innate 'power'. The 'instinct' in casting may correlate to Intelligence to 
some degree, I suppose; but it is not cut-and-dried logical thinking. 
	The power of a shaman, OTOH, is based not so much in some innate 
'gift' as in the power of his spirit guide and of his community. 

	Certainly you can invent whatever system you like for magic. But 
I would be careful about assumptions about how real-world systems of magic 
work. I would certainly encourage studying real-world magic, as it makes a 
terrific source for more interesting systems of fantasy magic. 

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