From: ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Personhood and interference
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:01:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom San Jose

egorr@hebb.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes ...
>In article <b__pfzr.ray@netcom.com>, ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:
>> egorr@hebb.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes ...
>> >In article <07!p7m_.ray@netcom.com>, ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:

>> >Do you believe that there are things such as good and bad interference?
>> 
>> First you create a new definition of "interference" in an attempt to
>> define personhood, and now that that has failed, you're now going to
>> come up with good interference and bad interference?
>
>No.  That was always there...I merely assumed that people would realize
>this, but I was wrong.  There is good and bad to just about 
>everything.  I'm sorry I didn't make that clear from the beginning, but I
>am attempting to correct the situation now.  Sorry for the confusion.

Hmmph.  Kind of like how you forget to explain you were using your own
definition for "interference."

>> >Good interference would be something that should be done.
>> >Bad interference would be something that shouldn't be done.
>> >In this case, it would be bad interference if parents wanted the child, but
>> >had the abortion anyways.
>> 
>> And would it be "good interference" if they didn't want the child and
>> did have an abortion?
>
>As stated, this case is must to general for me to comment on.  Please
>fill in more detail about why a certain couple would not want the child.

Why?  So you can give your blessing or condemnation from on high?

NO.

Either personhood starts at conception or it doesn't.  How many rules
about "interference" and "good interference" and "bad interference" and
splitting persons and the like are you going to make trying to shore
up this creaky premise?

>You talk about expensive (at the moment) procedures, completly ignoring the
>fact that they will always not be so expensive.  As technology advances,
>things become cheaper because ways are found to do thing easier....

And you are completely ignoring the fact that merely because something
gets cheaper, doesn't mean it _ever_ gets cheap.

>>   You can't make babies without 
>> sperm, egg, and a place to put them.
>
>And...so what's your point...?

Many couples are infertile because tha man doesn't produce enough healthy
sperm, the women has blocked tubes, the women's uterus can't support a
fetus, health problems in the mother, etc.

>> >Why should it matter?  It is a potential problem, but not one without
>> >solution if people are willing to look for them.
>> 
>> Why should it matter?!?!  Tell you what.  To show you how much it matters
>> let's perform the following experiment.  You come up with $20,000 or you
>> die.  You have one week.
>
>Again you are assuming that things will always be expensive.  History tells
>us that this is not the case.
>
>Oh, btw, and I could come up with $20,000 in a few minutes, if it was
>required.

Good.  The Red Cross can use it to save several lives.  What?  You say
_you_ need the money?  "Why should it matter?"

>  Please do not
>argue out of ignorance.  It is very annoying.

You got THAT right.

>> >> >Many adults in a coma are like this also.  Would it be ok to kill them?
>> >> 
>> >> Such adults are not infringing on any one other person.  Further, in many
>> >> cases such adults _are_ allowed to die.
>> >
>> >Sure they are.  Someone has to take care of them if they are kept alive and
>> >are therefore infringing on some other person.
>> >
>> >But not in all cases...the critical point.
>> 
>> One important difference is that _everyone_ talking care of such a person
>> is doing so _voluntarily_.
>
>I am not certain how to respond....could you please explain your point more
>clearly so that I can respond correctly.  thanx...

A woman who can not get an abortion is forced to carry the child herself.
She cannot surrender the pregnancy to someone else.  Pregnancy is involuntary.
People caring for a person in a coma are doing so of their free wills.  They
are even getting paid for it.  If any one of them gets tired of doing it,
they can just quit.

Clear?

-- 
Ray Fischer                   "Every improvement in communication
ray@netcom.com                 makes the bore more terrible"  Frank Moore Colby