HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Letter to Oregonian: No on 9
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:43:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: hilbert.1992Oct2.174358.19467
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon

Documentation of the enclosed claims available from this
email address.
-------------
        Letters to the Editor
        The Oregonian
        1320 S.W. Broadway
        Portland, OR, 97201

Dear Sirs/Madames:

Recent letters to the editor allege that the bible  condemns
homosexuality, that homosexuality is a chosen state, decried
in most cultures, and that we  should  therefore  deny  gays
protected status as a legal minority.

But what about divorce? That is a chosen state.  Divorce  is
arguably more harshly treated in the bible (Jesus blasts it,
but is silent on homosexuality) and forbidden or decried  in
most  cultures.  Nevertheless, divorced persons have exactly
the sort of protected status our `reverent' friends find  so
threatening   (See  ORS  659.030  which  forbids  employment
discrimination on the basis of marital status).

So why isn't the OCA trying to put a clause in our constitu-
tion  to  deprive  divorcees of these `special' rights? When
asked this at the City Club, Scott Lively offered no  expla-
nation. Perhaps they see that it would be hard to get people
to hate a class they could join at any time. Of course some-
day  it  could  well be the divorced and separated that face
their righteous indignation. The majority of us are in  some
minority - a jihad against the few threatens all.

Sadly, they do not even do justice to the book they claim to
obey.  They'll  claim  Leviticus 18:22 as authoritative, but
ignore the condemnation of eating shellfish, wearing  cloth-
ing  made  with different kinds of cloth, and working on the
sabbath (NOT  sunday).   They  also  conveniently  and  tem-
porarily  forget Galatians 3:22-26, which effectively tosses
Leviticus out for Christians.

They'll hold up 1 Corinthians 6:9, unaware of the fact  that
the  original word there is 'cult prostitute', not 'homosex-
ual'.  Similarly, Romans 1:26-28 condemns idolaters practic-
ing  ritual  homosexual acts. For a real eye-opener, get the
hebrew version of I Samuel 20:41,  and  find  out  what  the
hebrew  word  `higdil' as applied to David really means (the
translations have been sanitized).

This isn't about biblical commands.  This  is  about  people
grasping at verses to support prior prejudices, and ignoring
verses they don't like.  This is about  a  hate  group  that
prints  cartoons depicting a vast homosexual conspiracy con-
trolling government, law enforcement, the media  and  educa-
tion.   This  is  about  a hate group that continues to link
pedophilia and homosexuality, despite repeated rebukes  from
the  psychiatric  community.  This is about a group swelling
its ranks and filling its coffers by convincing  the  people
to  fear  and hate each other. Such a group can know nothing
of truth, or justice, or God.

        Regards,
                (signed) Max G. Webb
		(address withheld by request)
-------------
How long??! NOT long! For no lie can long endure - M.L. King
From: mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Civil War in Oregon
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:38:41 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss,soc.bi
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep26.002817.27744@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson
Minar) wrote:
> 
> (I love it when people make some big flame like "there aren't 80,000
> people who care about soc.motss" only to make a complete fool of
> themselves, when it become obvious that they really don't know what
> they are talking about. Matthew, I would suggest you actually *read* a
> little more before you prattle on. You look like an idiot.)

I have survived being called an idiot by persons of even humbler intellect
than you, dear boy.  I shall survive again.  "Probably inflated" you
say.  "By a factor of two" you say.  Rather difficult to prove one
way or the other.  I have only the qualitative evidence of *rarely* 
encountering someone 'from' soc.motss outside of soc.motss.  Not at a
company with many, many terminals with full access to the Internet.
(and many homosexuals - though the Squirrel and I have lunched, that's 1)
And not on the Internet itself - in various and sundry other groups to
which I 'belong' (almost respectably).  Yes, I *have* read the convenient
statistics.  They pre-suppose some vast cauldron of timid souls.  And that
people do not post regularly to scientific/technical newsgroups does not
strike me as particularly relevent here, where anything and everything
count as 'opinions.'  

I shall, however, grant the number 40,000.  Not out of any true belief,
but it is perhaps half-way between the reality I think likely, and
the one you do.  And besides, the argument is a rather dry and technical
one, rather difficult to get terribly emotional over.

So then, in answer to the originating querry, 'No, I do not mind drowning
in a sea of flop-sweat in front of 40,000 people.'  Kind of exciting,
actually.  I sweat very nicely, two ( <- that's just for you, Jezibel ).  
Especially at homosexual dance clubs (Friday, not Saturday, evenings).  
I haven't been to the Colossus in a while.  The Stud is nice (but it
get's sooooo crowded).  There's a jail-bait bar over in Berkeley that
I like *a* *lot*, too. (Latin bus-boys *come* to mind).

Wishing you were here,

Melmothra
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: evil twins
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:16:28 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
 >  Prey tell, what does keeping house have to do with being a house boy?
 >I thought that a proper houseboy's duties were to keep the lube and
 >condoms in plentiful supply. 

Just shows you how naive I am.  I thought that a houseboy's proper
duties (maybe not those of a proper houseboy) were keeping the
lube and condoms from staying in plentiful supply.  Too plentiful,
anyhow.



-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: This Ya Gotta See
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:37:10 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:


>Just got this from Adolf Pinkelmann:

>"Sometimes you make me wonder if some gays don't really
> deserve some bashing, so they would learn how to show some
> respect for those who have never been unrespectful to them."

>Anyone surprised?

Little as I like Mr. Anderson, this is pretty horrid.

Melmon
From: gum@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Arnold Gum)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:41:37 GMT
Subject: Honolulu Mini-con
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss



Anybody going to be in Honolulu around Christmas time?  Maybe time for
a micro-motss get together?  I'm interested if anyone else is (just not
on Christmas day/eve).  I can be reached at arnold@hpcndaw.cnd.hp.com.

Laters,
arnold


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: demuffining
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:40:09 GMT

In article <72942@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>The Zwick writes:
>
>>awww, these clueless boys, unsure of themselves and intolerant of
>>others, they crop up here again and again, making painful nuisances
>>of themselves.  i say: make 'em shape up, or hound 'em out!  No...More...
>>Whining!
>
>Whining, it seems, is defined as complaints about *The Cabal* <boom>  <crash>

Whining is defined as the act of complaining about how one is treated
for being an obnoxious boor.  You, for example, are one of the few
newbies who is not a whiner.  Merely an obnoxious boor.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What adjectives do you think best describe romantic jealousy?
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:55:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct6.175537.18225
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <flame@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>>baltman@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Brian Altman) writes:
>>> I am putting together a survey on romantic jealousy. I'd like to include a
>>> part where I'd have 10-20 adjectives that people commonly associate with
>>> romantic jealousy and their feelings. 
>
>>Boring.  Destructive.  Divisive.  Dumb.  Futile.  Immature.
>>Irrational.  Irritating.  Laughable.  Ridiculous.  Unnecessary.
>>Unwanted.  Useless.
>>
>>And, for me, at least....
>>
>>Nonexistent.
>
>Well bully for you.  What an insensitive cretin.

I don't see why you would say that. 

>,
>Eamonn, not in a good mood

Obviously.


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:50:36 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In article <23931@sybase.sybase.com> black@sybase.com
>(Christina Black) writes:

>>Although I suppose that if David called Jim 'Ron', Jim _would_ find it
>>grating, and might call David 'Dean' in retaliation.

>God, don't tell me you can keep track!  I'm impressed!

David has never called me 'Ron' but we have called each other names
that we *do* find grating.  If he called me 'Ron,' I'd wonder if he were
having an affair.  If I called him 'Dean' in retaliation, he'd wonder
if I were having an affair.

For a second I thought I'd call David 'Oriana' to get on his nerves, but
he'd probably take it as a compliment to be compared to a horse! :-)

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Jake (was Re: Surnames (was: TERMS OF ENDEARMENT))
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:52:19 GMT


In article <1992Sep30.135402.37688@watson.ibm.com>, jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
|> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik):
|> > It's spelled "Parkinoots."
|> > It's pronounced "Poots."
|> 
|> well, it's certainly *not* "puss in boots."

Dave and I were watching the video of _Paris is Burning_
(he had never seen it) and one of the people interviewed
is this CUTE kid, probably around 16 or 17, and both of
us at the same time said "It's JAKE!".  They both have
this smile that makes you want to laugh with joy and a 
similar way of talking and using their faces.  It was
almost uncanny.  Watch for it.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Results of Sexual Orientation---Handedness Surveys!
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:16:22 GMT

spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>>These two statements are logically contradictory.  If homosexuals are
>>more likely to be lefthanded then lefthanders are more likely to be
>>homosexual.
>Maybe you need to review your logic.  Seems you didn't think this one
>through too carefully...

Perhaps you would like to explain what it is you think I said in the
paragraph above, and how your hypothetical data disprove it.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 21:19:55 GMT


In article <dcgzqkb@rpi.edu> buckmr@lib110.its.rpi.edu (Ron
Buckmire) writes:

>>Bart Conner			Olympic gymnast

>OUT??

Well, maybe out.  My neighbor and good friend went to high
school with Bart (a couple years ahead of him); also a
varsity gymnast in college, I asked him about Bart at the
time of that great Olympics (was it four, six, or eight
years ago).  He said he'd always thought so, but didn't know
for sure.  I've heard since, but by the rumor mill, hence
not very reliable, that Bart had come out.

>>Daniel J. Travanti

>Huh??  I had never EVER heard of this before.  HILL STREET
>BLUES indeed!

He's from Madison.  I've been hearing it about him ever
since the heyday of the series, but nothing very definite.
Said to be a very nice man, too.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Jess has designs on *my* little boy!
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:59:21 GMT


In article <1992Oct2.202008.20430@panix.com> mara@panix.com
(Mara Chibnik) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>[This last is not to
>>be confused with units of licentiousness, formerly known as
>>Rods, now known as Gaks.]

>I thought that Gaks were
>the Ry and George (V. R.) couple.  

Must be the drugs I'm taking.  A thousand pardons, Gaks and
the One True Rod.

<> Just feeling a little annoyed and political today.
<> -- Donald Hardy (dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu)
<> Hang onto the feeling -- with a little righteous living, you
<> can feel annoyed and political every day.
<> -- Melinda Shore (shore@tc.cornell.edu)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:25:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct2.192538.29723
Organization: insert anything here

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>Then I look around at the motss.con, and I notice the set of people
>who I'm choosing to spend my time with. For example, I looked around
>on the porch at Alan's BBQ and I was surrounded by 8 bearded men, most
>(if not all) of whom were full fledged bears.

>I notice men with beards more often than men without.
>I'm noticing a trend here. What ever will I do? :-)

	Buy a net?  ;-)

BBC
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOW '93 itinerary
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:06:10 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Forgive me if I have missed this already --

Is anyone keeping a list of soc.motss folks that are planning on
attending the MOW?  (No, I am not volunteering to do this.)  We
are paying for our hotel room this week, in fact.  At least one 
fa-a-a-a-a-abulous dinner would be in order; I plan on inviting
the Cabal to our suite at the Grand Hyatt for canapes and champagne
(Suze if I can get it).

Put me on a mailing list if there is such a beastie, please.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

cruising: vidi, vici, veni.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mcmelmon@taligent.com (Matthew C. Melmon)
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:47:45 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.


Unbelievable.  First, Nelson surprises me in e-mail with a textbook 
example of the Liberal Wannabe Intellectual mantra:  a random sampling of
society doesn't count, because they are 'mostly stupid people.' Then,
Melinda surprises me by *agreeing* with Camille Paglia in much the
same way *I* agree with her - by pointing out that the 'elitists' consider
the 'masses' too 'stupid' to know better, and are thus easily led on
by fashion mongers.  I would have expected exactly the opposite (well,
not really - I'm sure Melinda isn't reading this, and she certainly
wouldn't send me e-mail).

Fuck the Liberal Wannabe Intellectuals and the Elite.  I *like* the
'stupid' masses (but then again, being one of them...)

Mantras:

  To live is to vogue and to vogue is to live

  Armani is God and Madonna is his Prophet

  American Express, don't leave home without it (but only if it's gold)

Melmothra, ACC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuckm@dakota.tcs.com (Chuck Meares)
Subject: Re: Red Rubbon Rant
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:43:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.163514.1218@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:
>
>Could somebody explain the green ribbons that I first
>observed on the bosoms of folks at the CMA awards?
>Seems like it might be yet another 'cause' that you 
>can wear as a fashion statement, but not do a whole
>lot about - in this case, say what?  Environmentalism?
>
>Roger. 

Roger,

The green ribbons were for ENVIRONMENTAL AWARENESS.  It seems that the CMA
people decided that the red ribbons were too political and didn't want their
awards attendees to wear them (kind of makes me ashamed that I listen to
country music).  

The group that pushes the red ribbons made an effort to get
the country stars to wear both. I didn't see the show so I'm not sure
how effective their attempts were.

Hope this answers your question.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Meares                               |
Systems & Network Administration           | PHONE: (510) 649-3649       
Teknekron Communication Systems            | INTERNET: chuckm@tcs.com
2121 Allston Way                           | 
Berkeley, California, 94704                |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed here are mine, mine, all mine ... I was never good
at sharing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 5 Oct 1992 20:46:00 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <Bvnzw6.C6q@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:


|> ethical reasons don't bother much with this.  As far as I can tell,
|> most of it seems to be faux-liberal posturing: pretending that you're
|> extremely progressive and sensitive without having really to commit
|> *too* much.


Uh, Tim...  Two points:

Point 1:  It is very telling that you put the statement "As far as I can
tell" into this posting... It is a standard justification for any number
of sweeping statements.  "As far as I can tell, all homosexuals are perverts"
or "As far as I can tell, homosexuals choose to be that way" are no more
and no less judgemental than the statement you are making.

Pint 2:  Being a vegetarian is enough work that I do not think that anyone
does it to impress you with their liberal posturing.  Being an ovo-lacto
vegetarian takes a lot more commitment than you are giving credit for.


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:06:05 GMT

In article <66865@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) 
writes:
>Ry Schwark whines piteously:
>>Oh george, you poor dear.  Life would be so much easier for you if you
>>only had a sense of humor.
>
>Oh, I do.  But it only activates when there's something *funny* 
>for it to operate on. 

George, I think we have different definitions of "sense of humor".  To me,
it means the ability to find humor in things which didn't seem to be funny.
It's partly a way of rearranging your view of the universe to make it more
tolerable.  

Instead of telling us that you have a sense of humor, trying showing us.  

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: Quayle Campaign Stroll Disrupted in SF
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:14:05 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Can someone explain to me how the campaign staff of the vice president
>of America can actually *lie* like this, and get away with it? It's
>astounding to me. This is a direct and deliberate misrepresentation of
>Bill Clinton's position on gay rights - how can he say it?

    Easy - he's a Republican, and Republicans will do anything, including
lying, to keep their jobs and stay in power so they and their monied
cronies can keep sticking it to the American public.  Witness the handouts
Bush has been trying to buy votes with for the past month or so.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Who can doubt that pleasure is the only goal of a reasoned life?"
                                                   -- Epicurus
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: williams@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nevin E. Williams)
Subject: New acc't admin for GLAD@ac.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
	Nevie
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:11:34 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@atlastele.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Progress (was Phyllis Schaffly's son comes out)
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:06:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.184604.21159@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>the weakness here is that dialogue requires people to stand up and
>identify themselves.  the process is not automatic; it requires
>motivation to break barriers of communication, and it requires
>openness and honesty.  it requires the desire to seek and listen to
>new ideas and new people, and the confidence not to lose sight of
>goals.

Precisely.  As Gandhi said, you must make the injustice *visible* before
you can go about the business of removing it.

>[...] as examples, a racist interviewer gives
>a poor report on a qualified black man, and the interviewer might not
>even suspect that his judgement has been impaired by hidden prejudice.
>or, a sexist interviewer demands better response and more
>qualifications from a female applicant.  the interviewer rarely
>recognizes or feels their bigotry.  time and time again, it's the
>burden (not necessarily the responsibility) of the oppressed to
>identify the prejudice of the oppressor [...]

IMO, there are two kinds of people who oppose us.  The first group, which
is far and away more numerous, is not bigoted per se, rather they are
ignorant and badly informed.  These people can be reached through education,
patience, and (above all) coming out.  Don't accuse people in this category
of being bigots; they will harden their attitudes against what you say and
tune you out.  Strive to increase their understanding.

The second group are the hardcore haters, the Bible thumpers, the gay
bashers, the internalized homophobes.  We don't need to be wasting our
limited time and resources on these people.  They have other issues and
problems in their lives that have caused them to migrate to the extremes
and no amount of reasoning will reach them.  Leave them to their hatred.

The trick, of course, is in telling who's who.
-- 
Brent Capps            | I am not responsible
bcapps@atlastele.com   | for the views
bcapps@agora.rain.com  | of my employer.
Newsgroups: soc.motss