From: jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Ohio State Football - No fun, no future to it's players and recruits
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:47:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute -- EOL

In article <1993Jan4.231023.12529@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mzhao@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Min Zhao) writes:
>> [Mike Doel comments double quoted]
>>
>>excuse me, but 8-3-1 is a winning program.  It's also our best record under
>
>     Yes, it is. No doubt about that, especially on paper. We all learned 
>arithmatics, we know 8 is better than 3, and we are smart enough to know
>8-3 implys we won more times than we lost.
>    But ask the players on the team, ask the seniors, ask if they have won
>anything.  Ask how they really feel in their heart. Their heart says we NEVER
>won. And that is a disappointing feeling ! And that hurts the inside of 

Have you personally done this, or are you just guessing?

I'm guessing that you're just guessing, and the the Buckeye players don't
feel as "down" as you'd like to think.  The quotes of a few malcontents
don't automatically speak for the whole team.

>people like Kline, Cook, Herbstreit when they leave Ohio State. Remember, 
>they didn't come here for their Master Degrees or PhD degrees like we did 
>when we went to school. They came here to play football, to beat Michigan,
>to go to Rose Bowl, to become champions.  

You don't always get what you want, do you?!  And sometimes what you get
is affected by what you do.  If you don't work hard enough, you don't
always get the rewards you think you should.  Sometimes this is the 
fault of the coach, sometimes of the players, and sometimes, frankly,
the other team is better and there is little or nothing you can do 
about it.  Even at Ohio State.

>
>>  We're still a highly respect power.
>         ^^^^^ 
>    Respected ? Sure. Highly respected ?  Maybe.  But that's not Cooper's
>credit to take.
>    Cooper's credit is in making that "still" into "used to be"

So when Ohio State wins, the team gets the credit, but when they lose,
Cooper takes the blame?

I wonder if any of the Ohio State sports administrators realized that
if OSU hadn't become a revolving door for coaches, there might be a 
little more stability in the program.  As it is, Cooper is doing a 
decent job under difficult circumstances.  Not outstanding, but decent.

>     Just think, maybe a Big Ten championship or two, a significant win
>(on TV) or two, a bowl victory or two, can help to increase these players
>pro stock ? 

Maybe.  But if they're so concerned about pro careers, why don't they
play better?  OSU was in the game against Georgia almost the whole way - 
the Buckeye coaching wasn't responsible for their loss.
 
>     Suppose we had gone 11-0 this year, (which we could), maybe we would 
>have a few more All Big-Tens and All-Americas ?  Don't you think so ? Maybe
>someone like Robert Smith or Steve Tovar might actually win an award or two ?
>Don't you think they have the atheletic skills ?

Sure they do, and if they played better they might actually have won an
award or two.

>     Maybe you still remember football is a team sport. A player is as good 
>as your team is. What is all the talk about Gino Torreta these two days ? He
>has had a winning program in Miami to help him shine ! A championship ring
>to let him show ! A good record to speak of !

What???  Miami lost to Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, and it isn't the 
coach's fault?

>   So can I be coach ?  Or maybe you will make a better coach ? Sure, they are
>all the players doing.  But coach's job is to make sure they don't do 
>certain things and do certain things, and in the end, to win games. 

So what does a coach do when his players don't do what he tells them?  How
do we know that Cooper is not a brilliant strategist and tactician who has
been betrayed by the incompetence of his players, despite his training?

>    How do you know they are not regreting their decision to come to Ohio
>State and not winning anything, no beating Michigan, no Rose Bowl, not 
>much anything else.  You don't seem to listen to what the players on this
>team have to say, do you ?  I even quoted some in my original article, you
>simply deleted those.

Thank God we don't allow players to "vote" for coaches, or the NCAA
schools would be in a helluva mess! 

Why listen to whiners, anyway?

>    To which, Gary Moller will say, "look, kid, was Robert Smith a good
>player ?  Did he win anything ?   Was Bryan Cook good in High school ?  
>you see where he is now ?  Don't you want to follow Desmond Howard's 
>step ?  Don't you think we (Michigan) has done good for Elvis Grbac ?"

Cooper and Ohio State owe their players the opportunity to play football
and get an education (not necessarily in that order).  They don't owe
them bowl wins, personal awards, or fat pro contracts.  That's up to the
players themselves.  If those guys were expecting such things, they need 
to wake up.

>>John Robinson is an ex-USC coach with lots of experience in the pros.  This
>>is a situation very similar to Bill Walsh returning to Stanford.  Who fits
>>this bill for the Buckeyes?  Answer: nobody.  Your anecdotal evidence that
>>recruiting and team continuity wouldn't be hurt by a coaching change is
>>baseless.
>>
>   Continuity of what ?  I never understand that reasoning !  You already
>know someone can't do the job, and you want keep him for continuity !

No, we disagree with you that Cooper can't do the job!

>If I am a prep star, I sure don't want that continuity if for whatever
>reasons I decide to play for Ohio State (that's if I decide to play for
>Ohio State). I sure what a change for someone that can help me grow, a 
>change for someone who will guide me to winnings and championships and
>trophies and sucessess.  Yes, I want change, I don't want continuity of
>failure ! 

Here again, many people don't view the Ohio State program as a failure.
Nor do they presume to speak for prep stars, as you appear to above.

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^  Dr. J(effrey Neil Burch)                 jb118@prism.gatech.edu    ^
^  Georgia Tech Research Institute                                    ^ 
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