From: Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>
Subject: Rav Kahane (z'tl)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:52:53 GMT

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:29:37 GMT 
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) 
Subject: Re: Kahane 
 
In article <6NgguB1w165w@corner.wpb.fl.us>, murray@corner.wpb.fl.us (Murray 
Kahl) says:  
 
>I also remind you that the inability of Arabs to live peacefully 
>with Jews is ever prevalent and recognized. 
 
Huh!  And I always thought it was the Jews' inability to live peacefully 
with Arabs that was the problem.  (:-> for the sarcasm-impaired.) 
 
>Exactly whom do you feel the Arab members of the Knesset represent if not 
>the PLO? 
 
If you have documentation of this, please present it, to us and the 
Knesset.  As far as I know, the Arab MK's represent their constituents; 
namely, Arab citizens of Israel. 
 
An Alice in Wonderland approach is not about to fool anyone. You're quite
right, the Arab members of the Knesset represent their Arab constituents, and
no others. Try a survey here and ask if that should be their complete
concern, or rather the safty of ALL the citizens of the country?
 
>All one has to do is ask the family of Helena Rapp, the 15 year old school 
>girl who was just sliced up at a bus stop in Bat Yam. 
 
That was terrible and tragic, but what do the Arab MK's have to do with 
it?  There's a lot more evidence linking Kach/Kahane Chai with the 
murder of a 70-year-old Arab man than there is to link Israeli Arab 
MK's with the murder of Helena Rapp. 
 
You contradict yourself as you say above they represent the Arab residents of
the country and then you split them apart. You may also, if you wish
demonstrate that Kach and Kahane Chai are one group as you seem to imply.
These contradictions are clear and confuse rather than clarify your opinion.
 
>While your statement is all inclusive and clearly not true, Kahane was a 
>saintly figure, the victim, the scapegoat, the paradoxically gentle man of 
>violence with a weapon in one hand and a mea culpa in the other. 
 
>>Oh, please.  "Gentle man of violence" indeed.  I don't know about 
>>Kahane, 
 
If you don't know about Kahane, why say anything? He is who the discussion is
about. Apparently, knowing nothing about the topic does not prevent you from
voicing a dissenting opinion. Curious approach to debating!
 
>>but the actions and statements of his followers in Israel in 
>>the past few days seem to indicate that they are bloodthirsty rabble 
>>more than "gentle" or "saintly." 
 
If you have some evidence that the police do not, don't tell us, give it to
the police.
 
>I revere him 
>as such, as a figure of courage, somebody whose moral substance makes the 
>rest of us feel like moral shadows; 
 
>>Speak for yourself here.  I don't claim moral superiority over anyone, 
>>but I sure as hell don't claim moral inferiority to Kahane. 
 
If you know nothing about him, how can you make this claim?
 
>What did Horace mean 
>when he wrote the lines dulce et decorum est pro patria mori? It is sweet
>and right to die for your fatherland and so Kahane did. 
 
You haven't read the poem (argh!  Wish I could remember the name/poet) which 
ends: 
 
"That Big Lie/ Dulce et decorum est/Pro patria mori." 
 
When you remember, let us know.
 
>>It is never sweet or right to die violently, no matter what.  G-d commanded
>>us to choose life, not death. 
 
Are you reading the same post I am. Where did I say that G-d commanded us to
die violently?
 
>>And your use of the word "fatherland" troubles me.  To hear a Jew utter 
>>that word is quite disturbing. 
 
You may translate Horace any way you wish, but what I find disturbing is
someone attacking a just man, a good Jew, a martyr, and while doing so
admitting he knows nothing about him. 
 

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