HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jag@unislc.uucp (John Ganske)
Subject: Re: Browns News - Nov 20th (Vikings' game)
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:50:44 GMT

mocnik@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
[stuff deleted]
> 
>keys to Browns winning:
>----------------------
[other keys deleted]
>- The defense must not allow any quick strikes for TD's. The Vikings like to 
>  throw deep. They get into trouble when they have to march slowly.

I'm one Vikes fan who doesn't share this opinion.  I would rather see the Vikes 
march slowly up the field, and at times this year they have shown that they
are more capable of doing it than recent Vikings teams.  I have seen some good
drives this year accumulated with Terry Allen (and some Roger Craig) runs,
screen passes to Allen, short passes to Cris Carter.  On the other hand, I 
cringe when Gannon throws long (especially last week).  Gannon just doesn't 
seem to have the necessary accuracy on his long passes.  Maybe last week's game
with the Oilers has really affected my perception of Gannon, but I just have  
not felt good about him all season.  Part of the problem seems to be that
the receivers are having a hard time getting open against decent secondaries
(do the Vikes actually have any speed with the starting receivers?).
The result is often that Gannon has to wait to throw and starts getting 
haressed back in the pocket.  

What do any other Vikes fans/observers say?

>Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!!

And to you also
 
John Ganske
From: mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mark Griffin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Tim Barnett
Date: 19 Nov 1992 11:50:18 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Chiefs Receiver Barnett

hatfield@s5 (Gary Hatfield) writes:

>	Does any one know what the deal is with Tim Barnett?
>He coaught two touchdowns SUnday but most of this season he has been
>a nothing.  was he hurt?  Can we expect that he is now the primary K.C.
>wide out?  PLEASE someone who knows the inside stuff on the Chiefs post a
>reply or e-mail the info.
>			Much Appriated
>			Mad Hatter
>			hatfield@s6.math.umn.edu

Yes, he was injured.  And, yes he will probably be their main receiver.

-- 
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Mark Griffin, Sys Admin, Fort Hays State University      |It is always better to
Internet:mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu Bitnet:mgriffin@ksuvm |do, than be done to.
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: vjrao@leland.Stanford.EDU (Venodhar Julapalli Rao)
Subject: Re: Whiners 21, Saints 20
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 08:02:04 GMT

In article <27000142@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>I know what I hate...people who try to look cute by writing with a *cajun*
>accent.  Give me a break.  Dem Saints blew it big time.  Why would you
>want another trip to SF?  Just think of the pain you will suffer after the
>Aints lose a 3rd game to SF.
>
>Don Boell
>'Just win baby'
>

Oooooh, we're very scared after those huge 6-pt., 1-pt. losses...




________
Beat up the Redskins Monday night!!
From: jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Top 10 Reasons to Watch GIANTS/Eagles game this weekend
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:28:53 GMT
Organization: Washington State University

In article <98081@netnews.upenn.edu> satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair) writes:

>3) Seahawks organization able to eliminate one of two head coach candidates.

I like it, I like it. :D

Jim

-- 
Jim Jungbauer                 |  Go Vikings, Northstars, Cougars!
jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu    | 
EECS Department               |  "Nice move by Bellows... big drive... SCORES!"
Washington State University   |     -- Mike Emrick, 1991 Norris Division Finals
From: hjjcl@usho77.hou281.chevron.com (J.J.Clyde)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Niners 21, Saints 20
Summary: WORSHIPMORANOW
Keywords: WORSHIPMORANOW
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:24:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: .

Zimmers writes:
>
>>More like "Third time's the charm!"  And that's what we want.  And if
>>the Niners are playing the best ball right now (very possible), then the
>>Saints are definitely a close second.
>
>Dream on.  Niether the Niners or the Aints have the complete package.

WHO DOES!  The '72 Dolphins?!!

>The Bowboys still look like the class of the league, followed by Minnesota.

Remember Zimmers, I said "the best ball right now."  Look at the past
two weeks:
	
	Dallas:	37-3  over Lions,	23-27 loss to Rams.
	Vikes:	35-7  over Bucs,	13-17 loss to Oilers.
	Saints:	31-14 over Pats,	20-21 loss to Niners.
	Niners:	41-3  over Falcons,	21-20 win over Saints.

Now can you honestly argue that the Vikes and/or Boys are outplaying the
Saints & Whiners at this point in the season?  I take "Class of the
league" as meaning head-and-shoulders above the rest.  FAR from that.

Furthermore, if the Niners were playing the Vikes or Cowboys this
Sunday at a neutral site, who do the think the bookies would favor?

Then there's that 8-2 AFL team.......Bub...Biff...Babs....whatever.....

>I still look for Philly to get it going by playoff time, too.  It's going
>to be a rocky road for the NFC West.

No argument here, but it was nice to find some solace in the fact that
the rest of the NFC 'contenders' tripped up this past Sunday.

>Now if we could magically combine the Niners offense and the Aints defense...

No use.  The r.s.f.p gods would see to it that Glanville was coach.


--J.J.
GEAUX SAINTS... (but leave the Prevent at home!)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:12:08 EST
From: <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Bills No. 1 in AFC
 <1992Nov18.204717.2383@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
 <92323.205743RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1992Nov19.173021.27303@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
 <92325.011214RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1992Nov20.162129.25811@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>

Current playoff rank is as follows :
1. Buffalo    2.  Denver     3. Pittsburgh
1. San Francisco  2.  Dallas  3.  Minnesota
   -Current playoff rank is decided by actual games played to date and what
the current situations are right now based on tiebreakers that HAVE ALREADY
been played - not tiebreakers that are GOING to be played.  This is what I'm
asking you to realize, Jason.  I know that after more games are played tie-
breakers will be more focused and effect a new CURRENT rank for teams each
week, I'm just arguing who's where in rank right now.      ** Rob **
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Holy Shit! Followup
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:59:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <_1jq#v+@lynx.unm.edu>, jawebb@hydra.unm.edu (james webb) writes...
>In article <Bxtq1y.BEp@acsu.buffalo.edu> v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER) writes:
>>Enough already with this AFC inferiority.
>>Broncos to SB 3 out of four years.
>>San Fraqncisco to 2 straight SB
>>Buffalo to 2 straight SB.
>>I'll take consistency over superiority anyday.
>>Bruce, a Bills fan.
> 
>	How about this then...
> 
>		The NFC consistantly wins the Superbowl.

All good things come to an end.  If Bill Clinton can become the next
president, then the AFC can win a Super Bowl.

Project Pasadena: Buffalo Bills beat Dallas Cowboys 35-24

Bruce, a Bills fan
From: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Saints Playoff Prediction
Keywords: Saints, Hardee, Who Dat?
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:52:32 GMT
Reply-To: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Distribution: rec
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: delarocq@c00105-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu



  The Saints have a very serious problem.. they have the mega defense, but
 a poor offense against good teams. TYhe Saints should blow out the 49ers,
 but since the offense is so-so, the Saints fans have to hold their breath!!!
-- 
delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu


      
---------------------------------------------------------------------------   
1988,1989,1990,1991 AFC East Division Champions
1991,1992 AFC Conference Champions

Hungry for some fish.. Monday Night Football, November 16, 1992..

If you are a Buffalo Bills fan, email me at delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu
so we can talk all about the games, insight, etc.
If you are a Packers fan, let me know. I am interested in any news
out of Green Bay...
A PROUD MEMBER OF THE BILLS COALITION TAKING THE BET II.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: torresce@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Carlos E. Torres)
Subject: Re: MNF announcers still suck
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:49:02 GMT

mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak) writes:
>I only watched a few plays of the game between the Dolphins and Bills,
>and on nearly every one of them the MNF guys were saying that Miami was
>doing something illegal.  Once Dierdork wanted a late hit out of bounds
>(seemed like an okay hit to me), another time Marino was drawing the
>Bills offsides by moving his upper body (replay did NOT clearly show this
>at all), and on yet another they wanted a pick on some wide receiver
>(replay showed this was possible).  Then when the Bills had the ball
>they did nothing but gush about how great they were.  It seemed like
>bias or bandwagon jumping to me.  Keep in mind that I'm not making a
>statement about either team (I don't care that much), but just making
>an observation about the announcers everyone loves to hate.  Did anyone
>else notice this?

Well, maybe a little, but alot of what they said was true also.  Marino was
flinching, and in one playback, I saw it  - in fact make that two!  To get
Bruce Smith offsides twice is a little too much to ask for sheer coincidence.
I thought the commentators were okay, b'cse in alot of the plays they would
mention that it could have gone either way - (for example the touchdown that
was called incomplete for the Bills - b'cse it had touched the ground).
If there's anything to complain about, it's the referees, but I'm glad the game
didn't really depend solely on the calls of the officials.  Both teams played 
wonderful in my opinion  and neither offense/defense "lost" the game in my
opinion.  The defense of the Bills won it.  There is a difference between losing
a game and winning a game - if you know what I mean.  In other words, the 
Dolphins "D" did not lose it, nor did the Bills Offense.  Oh well, I don't
want to tongue twist what I'm trying to say so I'll end.
	Mystic
(alex.soto@analog.com)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: imes@bass.cis.ohio-state.edu (jeffrey imes)
Subject: Re: Christie saves Bills
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:22:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.131645.8779@iscsvax.uni.edu> lyle5741@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>O.K. so maybe the Dolphins DID lose on Monday night, but at the half they were

Acceptance is the last stage of personal loss.

>clearly the better team.  I agree that the Bills did win the game and I'm not
>saying that they didn't deserve to win, but if the Dolphins can avoid things
>like the 3rd quarter drought they had, they could beat anyone.  What I want to
>know is how in hell did Buffalo win?

Buffalo put 26 points on the score, Miami put 20...(sheesh!!! do I have to 
spell out everything???? :)

>        Without their kicker Steve Christie, they're nothing!  Thomas only had

Jim "no INTs" Kelly = no passing ability
Thurman '154yds' Thomas = no rushing/passing/etc... ability
Bruce "I sacked Marino" Smith = no defensive ability
Bills "We sacked Marino 4 times" Defense = no teamwork
Bills "pocket provided" offensive line = no strength
Andre "I just came off an injury and still smoked ya" Reed = can't catch

Need I say more???

>only a little more than 100 yds. tot. off. and NO tD's.  Kelly didn't have a
>good night.  Neither Lofton or Beebe had long catches.  

Were it not for the strong, swirling winds, there were three TD passes for
Jim Kelly, but oh well.  Receivers beat the secondary each time.

>        As for the Dolphins, Marino was spectacular 300+ yds. passing with 2
>TD's.  His receivers caught nearly everything.  Higgs kept the running game
>going!

For the first half, then nothing in 2nd half.

>        As a Dolphin fan, I'd just like to say that I think the Bills got
>lucky.  Granted, they pulled it off, but not my playing well.  Hey Shula...

As a Bills fan, I'd just like to say revenge is sweet and to the victors go
the spoils (and WOOFing rights....)

>Good Game!!!!!

Gotta agree with ya there.

===============================================================================
Jeffrey Imes             	  "It's really tragic how a family can get torn
CIS Undergraduate Student	   apart by something as simple as wild dogs."
imes@cis.ohio-state.edu		   		-- Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM (Bob Deguc)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Forward Pass or a Fumble
Date: 23 Nov 1992 19:42:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: holein1.corp.sun.com


As I was watching the Miami-Oiler game yesterday a ruling on a play 
didn't seem to make sense and I was wondering if anyone else saw it
the same way....

In the second quarter of the game with the ball around midfield and
in possession of Miami, Marino drops back to pass.  During the motion
of his arm the ball comes loose and flys backwards and lands to the 
right about 5-6 yards (alot of it of the balls flight was like a 
"pop-up" in that it seemed to go up about 10-15 ft).  The play was
ruled an incomplete forward pass.

I don't see it that way.  Since the ball landed so far in back of the
QB *how* could it have been under the control of the QB when his
arm started to come forward?  If he didn't control the ball when his
arm started moving forward, how could he have "thrown" it incomplete?

Does anyone have any ideas of why it was ruled an incomplete _forward_
pass while the ball traveled _backwards_?  Note:  the ball did not make
contact with any other player and Marino himself was not hit on the
play.


Hats off to Miami for a great comeback though (and I'm not suggesting
that this would effected the outcome in any way).


Bob De Guc
Bills fan in *ANY* country. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: SUPER BOWL TALK: BILLS AND 49ERS
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:19:43 GMT

>In article <Bxx5My.1oM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v130pwbq@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (ANTI-CHRIST) writes:
>
>>It seems like every year in the playoffs and the Super Bowl that if Team A
>>had lost to team B in the regular season that come playoffs and Super Bowl
>>that team A would beat team B.
>>
>>The following are instances that come to mind:
>>
>>1991
>>
>>regular season: San fran beat the Giants
>>playoffs      : Giants beat San fran

Super Bowls rematches:

          regular season                   Super Bowl
1980        Eagles (10-7)                    Raiders (27-10)
1981        49ers (?)                         49ers (26-21)
1983        Redskins (37-35)                 Raiders (38-9)
1985        Bears (20-7)                     Bears (46-10)
1986        Giants (17-14)                   Giants (39-20)
1990        Bills (17-13)                    Giants (20-19)

Conclusion: unless it's the Raiders, the regular season game has no 
bearing to the SB. The AFC will lose no matter what.

Moral: the win the Bet III, the pro-AFC netters should pray for the Raiders
to win the conference and match up against the Eagles/Cowboys.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: killer@robin.cs.hut.fi (Kalle Kivimaa)
Subject: Re: rules - tackle eligible
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:05:13 GMT

In <kowalski.722185801@clouso> kowalski@crim.ca (Allan Kowalski) writes:

>declares a tackle as eligible. I know they refer
>to his being eligible to catch a pass but why do they have to declare
>it. Isn't it automatic if there is no wr or TE on his side

A tackle (at least normally) wears a number between 50 andd 79.
Thus, he is ineligible to catch a pass, unless he notifies the
referee.

The point of this is to ease out the officials who only have
to worry about the number of the player catching the pass
(50-79 ineligible, otherwise eligible) or players downfield
during a pass play.
--
************************************************************************
* The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight *
* in the entire Universe.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTG                     *
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: psmith@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Paul Jeffrey Smith)
Subject: The Bills
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 10:53:32 GMT

Although I did not take any of the Bets, I can now die in piece as a 
happy Bills fan.  Being an Australian, I won't get to see the game for 
a while yet (a couple of hours for a review), but I'm sure it must
have been a ripper.  If there is some truth about the quality of the
refs, I can only hope theat IR will be back next year for a fairer
if not longer, 1993/94 season.  Congratulations Buffalo, condolences
to you Miami fans out there.  

Hah, you Fins fans out there that took the bet can't say a thing.  Best
chrissy present I could have received...  Come on Bills fans, lets get
some good qualtiy woofing in while we can.  We deserve it :]/

regards to all NFL freaks..


Paul Smith

-- 
psmith@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au 
WARNING .signature file not found!!!
Please check that you have placed some witty comment in there.
Failure to do so may result in damage to your ego.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: krueger@cs.uwp.edu (Gerald Krueger)
Subject: Re: AFC TEAMS STINK
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:48:56 GMT

edward.lor (lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com) wrote:
: Nothing special, just a little fact of dominance that we love to
: bring up every year to infuriate our AFC little brothers. Guess every
: year they have to come up with strawman arguments (conference as
: a whole, etc.) to rebute.
: 
: -- 
:                                           Edward Lor
:                                           lor@cbnewsk.att.com

Every year?  Do you think the NFC was a better conference in '72?
If the NFC is so dominant for a reason other than chance, what is
that reason?
						Jerry

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: martens@python.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Martens)
Subject: Re: Seaguppies Only Scoring 5.9 a Game!  (was Re: Current standings)REFRESH
Organization: Ohio State U. Dept. of Computer Science
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:44:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.115230.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:


>Who is the all-time NFL leader in fewest points per game in a season?  The
>Seaguppies are making a good run at it--5.9 points per game!


I don't know about the NFL record, but the Packer team record for
fewest points in a season is 80 in 1922.  That was an 11 game
season, so the average was 7.27 points per game.  Looking at the
record book, I'd say this is also the worst Green Bay has done on
a per game basis.

-- 
      "C'mon, what's the big hold up?!  Let's go, up there!
		  Bring on the snow!"  -- Calvin

-- Jeff (martens@cis.ohio-state.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jss@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Jelle Schoen)
Subject: Blown call by the refs or not?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Distribution:  World
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:22:18 GMT


Was the following a blown call by the refs?  I think it was but apparently
the refs didn't, the announcers didn't say a word, and Shula, Marino and Co.
didn't seem to argue the call, at least it wasn't shown if they did.

Situation:

Miami vs Houston, Miami is on offense, Houston on defense.
Houston player jumps offside, Miami goes on with the play, you know a free
play, no matter what happens the offense gets the benefit of the penalty if something
goes totally wrong because basically it is a dead play to the advantage of the
offense.  During the play however a Miami player gets a holding call against him.
Now I figured since it was a dead play the holding penalty is gone so Miami
gets to take the 5 yard offside against Houston and replay the down.
But instead the ref used the holding penalty to offset the offside and the
down was replayed without Miami getting 5 yards.

Is there a special rule that offsets the defensive offside if the offense
also gets a penalty?  Or was this a blown call by the refs?  Since no one
seem to say anything or argue I figured there must be such a rule.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: JGH computer rankings
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 16 NOV 92 08:57:14    

In article <1992Nov13.165640.17080@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, jdhl@troi.cc.rochester.edu (papa_sm00sh) writes...

>In <BxMAwq.17o@acsu.buffalo.edu> v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER) writes:
> 
>>How can Buffalo be seventh!  They are a better team than the Saints,
>>Vikings, and Eagles.  The 49'ers are better than these teams too.
>>The Redskins are not better than the Bills.  Here is my top 10 from 
>>top 13.
>> 1) Cowboys
>> 2) 49'ers
>> 3) Buffalo
>> 4) Miami
>> 5) Vikings
>> 6) Saints
>> 7) Giants
>> 8) Redskins
>> 9) Steelers
>>10) Oilers
> i tend to agree with your ranking more than with John's, but you have
>to remember that buffalo has played very poorly offensively 4 of the
>last 5 weeks... the ranking of a team is not a measure of how good the
>team can be when all is clicking but on the expected value of that
>team when it take the field,... the best way to do this is to use
>weighted averages of past performances weighting the most recent the
>heaviest in most cases, then throwing in a few more dummy variables
>like turf vs, natuiral grass etc... because of buffalo's play 4 of the

This is essentially what my program does.  Offensive and defensive 
statisitics are not involved.  And really, since the only stat that 
counts is wins/losses that's all you really need.  I do not include 
things like turf/grass either.  I don't believe that *any* prediction 
program can be accurate enough to have to worry about stuff like this. 
ie. If the two teams are so even that whether they're playing on 
grass or turf is a factor you better just call it a tie - or do what 
my program does - give the home team an extra point.

>of course... if i were a little better at programming and had a way of
>importing the data much easier than by hand, I would come up with my
>own ranking... anyone want to send me a copy of their's and tell me
>how to get the dadjusted data into the computer automatically (i.e.,
>not by hand)? ... until then, i will just use my brain... which
>probably works much better anyway...

Naturally the rankings you come up with through eyeballing it (ie 
using your intuition) *seem* better than the computers rankings - if 
they didn't you'd rearrange them until they did.  The real test is 
predictability.  My program is doing very well in this regard.  Last 
time I checked it would be at around 20th place in Dave Woods pool 
with a record of 91-35.