HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:05:04 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> R. Todd Minsk writes:
>
> On a similar topic, during Guilford's (Boston & Maine, Springfield
> Terminal, etc.) labor troubles, non-union train crews were hired (from
> short line railroads, steel mills, etc.) to substitute for strikers.  I
> heard several tales of crews trying to work places were none of them
> had ever been, even at night.  I suppose had there been passenger
> trains involved, the railroad would have been much more particular, but
> one wonders.


Sure...this kind of bullshit (pardon my language) happens often.  In one case
I recall, the Southern Railway of B.C. (SRY) was on strike and management was
running the trains.  They had guys out there that had never been ON a train,
let alone switch cars.  The were running through switches, over running
authorities, and in one case, a guy almost lost his leg.  The union was about
to invoke unsafe work practices to the NTA when the strike was settled.

Another case ALMOST happened on CP recently.  There was a bulletin issued
stating about 10 names of Asst. Superintendants, Trainmasters, General
Yardmasters, and even General Office Manager.  They were authorized to issue
clearances on the Cascade Sub (my sub).  I read this and went, "Huh?  No
bloody likely."  These guys were going to run the railway because the
dispatchers' union was about to go on strike.  They settled, and the bulletin
was cancelled, but I know I would not have turned a wheel.  Imagine taking an
operating authority from some guy who was the Office Manager of the Customer
Service Center...what in Christ does HE know about running trains?  That's
like them asking me to be an Office Manager.  I know ZIPPO about the office
end of railroading.

Scary thought...


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

I hosted one of the active members of the BJW RR last month on my
18" gauge shortline. He said its a diesel-mechanical replica, 1/3
scale, industrial loco costing >$20K from a mid-west manufacturer.
He said it looked about as detailed as my 1/2 scale, 2-ton, gas-mechnical
growler which I patterned after the Davenport 3-foot gauge D&RGW #50 sitting
in our local Colorado Railroad Museum. #50 used to run on the Roaring
Fork & Big Trees, 'til someone busted the tranny.

Sounds like you have a nice treat to ride in/behind! I, too, would like
more details:

* air brakes? 

* sanders (light lockies need 'em)?

* enclosed cab?

* prime mover make, hp, etc.


Regards,

al jackson
From: gfimda!erik%kekule@uunet.UU.NET (Erik Pedersen)
Subject: help?
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:36:05 -0400
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How does one go about 'subscribing' to this list?
From: cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railwork in Cupertino
Summary: Kaiser Cement Plant at Permanente
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:26:40 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


The rail line you saw does indeed service the Kaiser Cement Plant at Permanente.I worked at the Permanente plant a number of years ago.  (1968-1974)  At the    time I worked for Kaiser Cement, there were six wet process cement kilns that
were fired using natural gas.  Due to the energy crisis in the early 70's, 
Kaiser converted the kilns to oil.  They did this only long enough to install a
new dry process kiln that is coal fired.  Although I left Kaiser Cement before
the conversion, it is my understanding that the new cement kiln produces as muchcement as the six wet process kilns using only about 40% of the fuel.  At the
time I worked at Permanente, it was rated as the 10th largest cement plant in
the US.

Before the conversion, inbound rail traffic was iron ore, laterite clay, and, ofcourse, empty cement hoppers.  Iron ore and laterite clay are additives used in
making cement.  (For clarification, cement is the fine gray powder used in      making concrete.  Concrete is made of cement, sand and gravel, and concrete is 
what is used for roads, sidewalks, patios, etc.)  The outbound rail traffic was
the full cement hoppers and the empty iron ore and laterite clay hoppers.  The 
amount of outbound traffic varied as construction work varied.

After the conversion to coal, additional inbound traffic are the coal drags.  
They are quite a site.  I believe that the main reason that the train moves so
slow is because of the grade and not the condition of the track.  The time I
happened to catch the train going by, there were three locomotives pulling a
long line of cars and they were really working hard.  I'm not a diesel          officianado, so I don't know what kind they were.

I did happen to see one interesting load go into the cement plant.  At the time
I worked there they were using 50 ton dump trucks in the quarry.  Fifty ton
dump trucks are to big to be driven on public roads and their top speed is only
about 25 miles per hour.  Kaiser purchased a new 50 ton dump truck and it was
delivered by rail.  The truck was completely assembled except for the wheels.
The wheels, (hub & tires) were loaded in the bed of the dump if I remember 
correctly.  

Loren Cantrell


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loren Cantrell                                       cantrell@clipper.ingr.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Demise of Pot Yard???!?!?!!
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:21:20 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Bruce McIntosh writes:

>I picked up the May '92 TRAINS and discovered that RF&P's Potomac Yard (and
>the RF&P itself, for that matter) had 'gone the way of all flesh', and that
>everything is going to come up condos and shopping centers!

Well, it's not sure what it's going to end up as.  The stadium has been shot
down for this year, and it's such an obvious boondoggle (and in No. Va. to
boot-- the rest of the state snarls at the D.C. suburbs) that it's really
rather unlikely to go through the statehouse.

The RF&P has become "just more CSX", but at the rate they repaint, I would
expect to engines in RF&P paint for years.

>So what still constitutes good train-watching in the DC area these days?

Well, business is very heavy on the ex-B&O Metro. branch (aka the current
main line).  The new signals in Silver Spring are not only in place, but
active, and it seems only a matter of time before fully bidirectional at
least as far as Point of Rocks, I would expect all the way to Cumberland.
MARC has taken up residence in the east yard at Brunswick.  The old mainline
toddles along.  MARC has started running excursion trains including one over
the old mainline which is the only way to ride in a passenger train over
that line.  Basically what's happened is that yards and a lot of DC local
trackage is gone away.  The georgetown branch has been truncated to a very
long siding (it stops short of Conn. Ave. now), with the remainder about to
be converted to a trail.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:32:49 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <Bw6BLI.5EF@access.digex.com> terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry) writes:
> 
> >Basically, there was nothing "better" available until the refinement of
> >high power mercury vapor rectifiers (later solid state) made possible the
> >GE E33 and E44 electric freight locomotives which which used diesel
> >derived carbodys and DC traction motors.  These (E44) were able to displace
> >the older P5 engines and some GG1's in freight service and the resulting
> >surplus of GG1's and declining passenger service left them in a situation
> >where they really didn't need a "better" passenger locomotive.
> 
> Now, the E33's were Virginian property before the Pennsy got them, right?

Yep, the E33's were built for the Virginian and then sold to the New Haven
when the Viginian dieselized.  When PC sucked in the New Haven and the New
Haven overhead was tweaked for GG1's, the New Haven power got pooled with
the Pennsy stuff.  The E33's were seen interchangably with E44's in Pennsy
territory - they had rounded extensions over the cab windows and different
pantographs, but were otherwise similar.  Some of the odd-ball one/two up
New Haven AC equipment ended up sans-pantograph at the Morrisville, PA
shops (main electrical shop was in Wilmington, DE) in the mid-70's and
was presumably scrapped from there.  I don't know if all the box-cabs were
alreay gone by then or if there was other New Haven equipment that never
came South.

Pennsy ordered their own E44's based on upgraded E33 spec's, presumably
back when they were still on the Virginian.  They were apparently quite
happy with them and they bought quite a few.  The Black Mesa & Lake Powell
point-to-point coal road was electrified with an GE E?? series which bore
an obvious similarity to the E44, but was set up for 60 Hz, 25Kv (?) juice.
I don't know how else they might have varied specification-wise.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: phxy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: AARPCO Special Routing
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:25:25 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University


Sorry, I guess I forgot to post the routing (just assumed everyone knew).
The train left Chicago as the second section of AMTRAK #48, but was symboled
as AMTK #560.  It ran behind #48 on the Chicago line all the way to Lyons,NY.
From here it turned south on Conrail's Corning Secondary (former NYC line)
to Gang Mills, NY (near Corning).  From here it went east on Conrail's
Souther Tier Line(former E-L main) to Hoboken.
The Southern Tier line is seeing a lot of passenger action this month -
The Conrail Executive train ran last week and is scheduled to run again 
this week.

Bruce Fingerhood
brucef@ee.cornell.edu
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tehachapi double track, was Re: If coast, no valley
Date: 10 Oct 1992 19:53:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger) says:

>Loren I. Petrich (lip@s1.gov) wrote:
>
>> 	I know I sound like a Kremlinologist, but I find it curious
>> that I don't see SP's logo, featuring a railroad track heading into a
>> rising sun, on any of SP's rolling stock -- just "Southern Pacific" or
>> "SP" in plain letters. This seems exceptional among railroads; I've
>> seen UP's red-white-and-blue shield logo on most of UP's rolling
>> stock, for example, and even on some of its railroad bridges.
>
>     Make that a sunset.  During the SPSF days, SP was treated somewhat like
>a bastard son, with almost no money being invested into the physical plant,
>except on a "have-to-have-it-to-keep-running" basis.  SP hopes to have a
>break-even year in '92.  BTW, the new "golden sunset" logo is beginning to
>appear on some of their bridges here in Oregon.

  Someone was telling me recently that SP is also planning to repaint all the
overpasses that have the flying "Rio Grande" on them with the "golden sunset"
logo.  I only saw one repainted bridge when I visited the Joint Line last 
August, and it's probably not too high on Espee's list of priorities, 
considering all the other things they have to spend money on...
-- 
      ______.._,____,__._._     _.__.__,_.._,_..______      
   ___IooI==          ====I     I====  \====/   ==IooI___   __________________
 |_I__I__I____Santa Fe____I_| |_I___Evan Werkema__I__I__I_| Ielw4@po.cwru.edu 
~`-~O==O~============~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~~o==o~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Info on North Pacific Coast RR
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:20:35 GMT

NORTH SHORE NARROW GAUGE

Try these two books:

Dickinson, A. Bray. NARROW GAUGE TO THE RODWOODS, THE STORY OF
THE NORTH PACIFIC COAST RAILROAD AND SAN FRANCISCO BAY PADDLE-
WHEEL FERRIES.  Trans-Anglo Books, various printings.

Kneiss, Gilbert H.  REDWOOD RAILWAYS, A STORY OF REDWOODS, 
PICNICS AND COMMUTERS.  Howell-North, 1956.

Both these are probably out of print, but your university or
public library should be able to get them for you.  There are
other more recent books on the Northwestern Pacific (eventual
owner of this line), but I can locate them right now.

There used to be a narrow gauge coach sitting on blocks at
Olema.  It was formerly the Point Reyes library.  I wonder
if it is still intact?

Best wishes,

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Addendum to DC Train Watching
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:14:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

There is a NEW place to watch trains from in DC.  Take the metro to L'Enfant
Plaza and head toward 7th St. SW, where the railroad grade/bridge/viaduct
should be visible directly to the north.  Get on the right (east) side of
the street and go under the bridge, and the turn right immediately.  This
will put you in front of the stairs to the L'Enfant station for VRE.

The station is a very neatly appointed suburban station (in the middle of
town) sitting on the track that ALL traffic south has to use.  In the
"northbound" (i.e., eastbound) direction there are PRR position signals.  I
have only been there briefly, so I can't attest to traffic volume.  I expect
it is VERY cold there in the winter.

On a related note, the big signal stand at the old QN tower (just below the
metro R.I. Ave. station) has been taken down, replaced by five or six brand
new color-position signals, whcih seemed to be undergoing testing when I saw
them last.  The new signals in S.S. are active, so it seems like it won't be
long before the Metro. Branch goes to bidirectional operation.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
From: hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Info on North Pacific Coast RR
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:44:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

In article <1992Oct14.162035.26629@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
>NORTH SHORE NARROW GAUGE
>
>Try these two books:
>
>Dickinson, A. Bray. NARROW GAUGE TO THE RODWOODS, THE STORY OF
>THE NORTH PACIFIC COAST RAILROAD AND SAN FRANCISCO BAY PADDLE-
>WHEEL FERRIES.  Trans-Anglo Books, various printings.
>
>Kneiss, Gilbert H.  REDWOOD RAILWAYS, A STORY OF REDWOODS, 
>PICNICS AND COMMUTERS.  Howell-North, 1956.
>
  Yes, I've seen these books.  They both have a bunch of interesting stuff but
due to their age are, they are a little sparse in one area:  How much stuff
is left and can be seen?  The grade by Tomales Bay is easy to see, as is
the bridge over Keys Estuary and a tunnel near Tomales.  Is there anything
else worth looking for?  What about Saucelito?  Tiburon?  Any info. would
be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

Rich Hill
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SP logo
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:13:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpmcaa.1992Oct13.211323.16693
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Chris Prael (chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM) wrote:
> From article <1992Oct9.213551.15532@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, by zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN):
> > 
> >  while driving US101 between San Francisco and San Jose, there is one or
> > two ex-SP (now the pinsula commutr line) overpasses that have the old SP
> > logo on them. I believe there is similar SP overpass on the way to Santa
> > Cruz from San Jose.
> 
> Not quite.  The SP logo was white on a black background.  These logos
> are SFSP because they are yellow on a boxcar red background.
> 
> Chris Prael

     I'm going to have to disagree here.  The *old* logo was indeed white
on black, but the "New SP" logo is the yellow on red.  All of the advertise-
ments I have seen in the trade journals always have the new logo, usually
near the bottom.  During the SPSF times, SP effectively had *no* logo.

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 92 13:19:33 CST
From:         Derek Morgan <C31801IE@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Reply-To:     derek@wubios.wustl.edu
Subject:      Re: St. Louis METRO LINK update
Newsgroups:   rec.railroad

The catenary is strung from the car yard in midtown St. Louis, and is somewhere
between the deBalivere and Delmar stations. The signal work is functional for
testing purposes up to Taylor Ave. As I look out my office window, I can see
the grade crossing at Taylor, but the test runs stop before they actually reach
Taylor. The cars have distinctive horns ("18-wheeler with a nasal consition"),
and I can hear them if the windows are open. The station platform at the Euclid
stop is laid, but they are still working on the elevator shaft, and the
connection to street level.

The current problems are: questions about the safety of the center-city tunnel
still exist. The right-of-way has not yet been secured at the airport; the
tracks will have to go through a cemetery, which needs to be relocated, and
it's over budget. Operating losses are higher than projected.

Derek Morgan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Who was this tender from?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:35:48 GMT

LOWELL TENDER

What you have sketched is a tender from a switching
locomotive, though this time sometimes turned up 
on other small locomotives.  The sloped back was 
supposed to allow better visibility during backing
moves, though how much is really questionable (about
as good as the sloped hoods on EMD SW-type diesels?).
Such small locomotives would have usually served in
yards or industrial plants near fuel and water 
sources, so a larger tender was not needed.

One guess if that the tender could be from the 
Eagle-Pitcher Company.  I don't know what this 
company mined, but they had an extensive line in the
midwest somewhere (Missouri maybe) and possibly plants
or mines in other locations.  But that's just a guess.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:12:19 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Oct15.182421.8258@Princeton.EDU> jsm@shade.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
> In article <35815@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> [on GG1's]
> >
> >The other major factor is that they represent a refinement of the basic
> >design theme tested over several generations of Pennsy electric locomotives,
> >combining the AC motor technology* developed on the P5 and predecessors with
> >the articulated frame design successfully used on New Haven boxcabs.
> >
> 
> What was the chronology of AC loco use on the Pennsy? I thought that
> electric locos on the Pennsy started with 3rd rail DC motors about 1910
> for the Hudson tunnels.
> 
> Then wasn't the first AC loco, the P5, introduced about 1933 and the
> the second AC loco, the GG1, introduced two years later?
> 
> So that would make the 1st generation Pennsy AC loco the P5 and the GG1
> barely 2nd generation. It is true there were older MU's and non-Pennsy
> AC prototypes to follow. Or am I missing something?

True the Pennsy started out with DC engines for tunnel service, but they
were into serious main-line AC electrification in the 20's and 30's.  There
were several models that were produced in some quantity before the P5,
including a couple that used the same frame/carebody with different
electrical gear in AC and DC versions and also several 1-up or small
quantity prototypes.

Pennsy Power and a couple of other picture books have a pretty good, though
not neccessarily coherent overview of the AC locomotives.  There are also
supposed to be a couple books on Pennsy and/or general railroad electification
with good material, but I haven't picked these up.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:01:06 GMT

>Dewi Williams (dewi@bnr.ca) writes:
>
>> Apparently the city wanted people to ride their buggies on the rails
>> rather than beat up the pavement, which the city would have to repair. 

Not exactly.  I speculate that it was public pressure that forced the
city to adopt a gauge that would allow them to ride their buggies
with their wheels *between* *the* *rails*.  By selecting a guage that
placed the rails a distance apart that was just slightly wider than the
distance from the outer face of one wheel to the outer face of the other,
the buggy could "drop" down into the flangeway.  This would provide
a level and somewhat smooth ride down the road.

With a track guage different, a buggy would bump and bounce over the
flangeway as it rode over it going down the road.  Additionally, it is
likely that the wheels on one side would "drop" down and run in the
flangeway thus providing a lop-sided ride.

Have you ever drove a car on a street with streetcar tracks, or any tracks 
for that matter?  Even with (comparitively) wide tires, the tracks tend
to "guide" your vehicle down the road.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.