From: sjaak@cca.vu.nl (Jacques Schuurman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Help required with grammar etc..
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:19:36 GMT
Organization: VU Amsterdam - dienst CCA

Since there may exist more interest on this forum for the answers to the
questions grc@stl.stc.co.uk (Gary Cook) asks, I take the liberty to post
this rather than to use (private) e-mail:

|  1) Which of the following verbs use zijn/hebben/both in their perfect
| tense ? ( I know the rule, but it seems vague to me ).

As a general rule of thumb, one can think of all verbs that indicate an
action where an object is (can be) involved that takes the accusative case,
will go with [hebben].

Here I repeat them, indicating "hebben" (h) or both (b) (*).

| Spelen(h) Werken(h) Praten(h) Maken(b) Leven(h) Kennen(b) 
| Bellen(b) Beloven(h) Stoppen(b) Studeren(h) Smaken(h) Geloven(h) 
| Koken(b) Missen(b) Kuchen(h) Bouwen(b) Horen(b) Branden(b) 
| Bedoelen(b) Bepraten(h)(**) Verhuizen(b) Kloppen(h) Ontmoeten(h) 
| Vertellen(b)(***) Huren(b) Verhuren(b) Fietsen(h) Reizen(h) 
| Winkelen(h) Betekenen(h)

(*) Nearly all verbs can go with "zijn", as it is a common construction 
to turn an object (accusative) into a subject.  "Ik heb een grote
pudding gemaakt." (I have made a giant pudding.), would, in this fashion,
turn into "Deze grote pudding is gemaakt (door mij)." (This giant pudding
was made (by me).).

(**) As far as I know, [bepraten] is used only in colloquial speech, that
is, the formal version would be [bespreken].

(***)  [vertellen] has two meanings, "narrate" and "miscount".  In the
former sense, by far the most commonly used sense, it can be used in both
ways: "Zij hebben hen verteld niet te komen." (They have told them not to
come.) or "Hen is verteld niet te komen." (They were told not to come.).
Note that the second sentence does not contain a subject, and the word
[Hen] is an object (dative case).  Aruments say that this construction 
may not entirely be correct, as the verb [zijn], which is, in formal 
Dutch grammar a ``koppelwerkwoord'', can only be used in constructions 
where an accusative object becomes the subject.  Henceforth, the correct 
construction would be "Men heeft hen verteld niet te komen.", which would 
translate to the very same English sentence.

|  2) The verb Betekenen - pronounced "Ber-tay-ker-nern" - why is it not
|     pronounced "Ber-tay-kay-nern" ????? Perhaps the history of that
|     word results in its pronunciation. Also, how is the perfect and
|     past-particiular formed :- betekeende/betekeend ??????? 

My suggestion is that the core of the word [betekenen] is the word [teken],
which would translate to "sign", or, even from the same stem, "token".
In this word, the second `e' is just a schwa.

|  3) If "ik zou gaan" means "I would go", how do you translate " I
|     would have gone" ????? Perhaps "ik zou gegaan" ??????????????? 

Ik zou gegaan zijn.

|  4) "bijzonder" means "particular" ... what do you add to make the word
|     "particularly" ????? ... is there a equivalent rule for adding -ly to
|     English words ???

This is a tough one.  In general, there is no lexicographic way in which we
can distinguish between adjectives and adverbs, which your question is all
about.  Consider, for instance, the word [langzaam] "slow".  The English
sentence (The slow train drove slowly into the station.), would
consequently be translated into Dutch: "De langzame trein reed langzaam het
station binnen.".
In the particular case of the word "particular", [bijzonder], there aren't but
a few examples in which [bijzonder] can be used as an adverb.  However, it
is safe to state that *when* it is used that way, it remains unchanged.  To
add up to the previous example: "De bijzonder langzame trein reed bijzonder
langzaam het station binnen.", the translation of which I leave to the
reader as a home assignment.  :-)

|  I have numerous grammar books, verb books, dictionaries etc. but none
|  of them were of any help.

Just ask your questions here.  Disclaimer: I speak Dutch only since I was
two.  ;/

sjaak
-- 
Jacques Schuurman VU Amsterdam |    [             ---/\---             ]
Telefoon +31 20 548 26 63      |    [ Mirko, pazi metak! Hvala Slavko! ]
Email sjaak@cca.vu.nl          |    [             ---\/---             ]
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