From: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Subject: Re: Une opinion
Reply-To: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 18:08:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.130459.20843@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, julie@eecg.toronto.edu (Julie Payette) writes:
|> 
|> I am tired, tired, tired of reading Mr. Leibovitch constant whining,
|> ("reactions de la vierge offensee") and false assertions about the
|> persecution of jews in Quebec. You may have had to suffer discrimination
|> 
|> >> The reality of the suitation is that many Jews have just packed up and
|> >> moved away from Quebec. The Montreal Jewish community is a fraction of
|> >> what it used to be, and can no longer support this network of schools.
|> But why did they pack up, Mr Leibovitch ? Were they "thrown out"?
|> You imply that Jewish people were "forced" out of Quebec due to
|> unwelcoming and discriminatory treatment, yet did it ever occur to
|> you that they might just have left because they didn't want to stay
|> in a francophone Quebec anymore, that they didn't wish to adapt to
|> this new reality ? Could that be possible ? 

What new reality... you must mean imposed reality... the 'environment' in
Qc is not favorable to English-speakers; "thown out" perhaps.....

An opinion: what does a society do when it needs to 'rid' itself of a
certain segment of the population 'legally'? Think about it.... Within the
framework of a Constitution/Laws etc, that society cannot ban that group.
However, it CAN institute procedures, mechanisms, etc to make life tougher for
that group. You understand the scenario... it happens in the workplace, in
community associations, almost anywhere you go in this world, ie the STATUS QUO.
Eventually, it becomes a case of ` if you can't beat'em, join'em `, or leave !!

To extrapolate, I suggest that this is/was perhaps the case in Qc where to
make French stronger, govts continuously 'nit-picked' at English-speakers.
Naturally, this eats away at the moral fibre of this group and over time, this
has changed REALITY in Qc (ie Montreal for the purposes of anything I ever talk
about in this group - apart from a few small English towns!?).

I am not saying this is necessarily 'wrong' and there are certain procedures and
mechanisms I will fight against.  I am just trying to point out that
what 'Mr. Leibovitch whines about' from a different angle. BTW, the Jewish
problem (wrt Richler) as far as I can remember was brought up by Qc nationalists.
Although, I have not read the book( read excerpts), it seems to me to be a diversion to concentrate the issues on anti-semitism, rather than on what Richler
was really trying to point out FROM HIS VIEW AS A JEW , as any author is
entitled to....

|> The Montreal Jewish Community is no less a fraction of what it used
|> to be than the Montreal anglophone community. Those who left, left
|> for political reasons, first and foremost.

I left for SOCIAL reasons primarily (in Qc SOCIAL=POLITICAL, right Julie !).
Qc uses its govt as an instrument to change society, not just make laws for
companies etc. What would Reality in Mtl be if certain things were not done ?
Then again, maybe a certain person should not have eaten the apple.
  
|> >> As for cemetaries, yes there's a Jewish one in Montreal where many of my
|> >> family are buried. You can't miss it, it's the one off Decarie with all
|> >> the overturned headstones.
|> Such statement discredit you, Mr. Leibovitch, and add substance to my
|> impressions that you are just a little more uptight (paranoid?) than necessary
|> about your belonging to the jewish community. There are many jewish
|> cemeteries in Montreal (off my head, I can already think of two in the 
|> district where I grew up -- Ahunstic -- one on Source Blvd. and other
|> on top of the Mount-Royal) and it will remain so despite the
|> despicable, yet fortunately uncommon attempts of some "people" to
|> profane them.
|> 
|> J. Payette
|> ----------

Perhaps, paranoia reigns on all sides? Rather... 'W5' does it start?...

What I see in society in Mtl (and I do not mean to generalize - for I have
many Qc - French - friends), is that over a period of time, when one is told
that a group has more/less privileges than another, it becomes second nature
to MOST to take that group as being the master/slaves (ie a society of classes).
Classes exist in almost any society in the world. We base our class structure
foremost on $$ right (scary sometimes) !! An unofficial sub-class (being) defined
in Qc is one based on Language, and THIS SCARES ME EVEN MORE.

There are a lot of things to improve upon in this world, in Canada, in Qc, in
Ont, in your hometown, in your family, in yourself. They do not happen overnight.
Some take a lifetime... and some generations...

Enjoy life, its short..

John

No disclaimer.
Less government is what we really need...
Newsgroups: can.politics