HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve K Cramer)
Subject: Re: How to pull out the flagstick....
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:17:11 GMT

In article <BrwErJ.H26@acsu.buffalo.edu> v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michae
l M Gorman Jr) writes:
>Flagsticks are flexible, so how I pull the stick out of the hole
>in a case where my ball is resting against it can determine whether
>the ball falls in or not.
>
>OK, all you righteous golfers, is it against the True Spirit of
>The Game o' Golf to deliberately pull the stick back away from the ball
>to encourage the ball to fall in?
>
>BTW, please, purists, don't flame me.  I'm just poking gentle fun.
>As a matter of fact, I count myself among you.
>
>But it is a serious question.
>
>
>Michael Gorman
>SUNY-Bflo
>Dept. of Philosophy

Not at all! Any good caddie would do it. Hell, anyone that knows the rules of 
golf would do it. Don't screw yourself and leave a 1 mm putt. This IS the RULE 
of golf.

About the pulling the pin deal. I have seen many pros who have holed their
shot from the fairway pull the ball out very gingerly so as not to do something
strange like have the pin knock the ball out. I have also seen caddies twist
the pin in the cup before pulling it out so as not to pull the entire cup out
of the ground, or pull the ball out with the pin.


BTW, Did anyone in the Toledo Channel 13 viewing area see me hit a pitching 
wedge, on a rain soaked Ottawa Hills course, yesterday on the six o'clock news?
I missed the 3 footer for par. ;-(

*******************************************************************************
Steve Cramer               scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"just hit it"  I live in Columbus, I visit Toledo, I'm from Sandusky! Yow!
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: What's a flyer lie?
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:28:52 GMT

jim@dap.b29.ingr.com (Jim Weeks) writes:
:
: sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes: 
:
: |> On TV, they're always talking about how a ball will fly out of
: |> the rough.  Anyone know the reason?  It seams that rough should
: |> always decrease the flight of the ball.
: 
: Good question.... [...] .. 1st because of the grass being in front
: of the club head the ball actually is moving forward before the
: clubhead reaches it..kind of a running start..  2nd. at the moment
: of impact the water retained inside the grass is compressed between
: the club and the ball and it explodes adding to the extra velocity
: of the ball [...]
: 

Ecsqueeze me?

Water is pretty much incompressable compared to a golf ball, or even
to the flexing of the club face.  I don't see how adding non-elastic
foriegn material between the club face and the ball can increase the
amount of energy transferred to the ball.  The energy to mash the
grass and push the water out from between the ball and the club face
has to come from somewhere.

I'll buy the part I deleted about less spin, but I'm skeptical that
grass between the ball and the club face will transfer more energy to
the ball.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I want to dress you up
Rosemount Inc.                                |as TALLULAH BANKHEAD and
                                              |cover you with VASELINE and
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |WHEAT THINS..
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: ABC Mud mouths (was Re: TV coverage )
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: chiton.1992Jul22.193409.14145
Organization: UCSD - Scripps Inst. of Oceanogr. - MPL

In article <1992Jul22.161853.12158@Arco.COM> cgp@Arco.COM (Chris Phillips  (214) 754-6419) writes:
>
>While I don't want to get into who has the best announcers (I
>can usually tell what's going on just by looking at my TV), I
>will add that I prefer to *watch* ABC's coverage.  Think about it:
>
>	1) ABC telecasts more hours of play so you see basically
>	   the leaders' entire rounds.

... But only in the majors (US and The Open), because during regular tournaments
they show 2 hours each of the last 2 days, and its' DELAYED. Since it's not live
you pretty much know whether there will be a play-off or not by timing the
amount of holes left to the potential contenders for a play-off and the end of
the telecast.

>	2) ABC gives 18-hole coverage so you see the whole course
>	   (and yes one reason I watch is to see the great courses).

Again, only in during the majors.

>
>Another difference is that ABC favors a foot-soldier, stay-with-the-leaders
>approach while CBS's is more of a back-nine, more-faces approach.
>I also think that the latter approach results in showing more
>putts I'd rather not see, although this is a minor factor.

I agree with you here.
>
>Someday I'd like to see what the front nine of the Augusta National
>looks like...
>
It's not CBS fault. They'd love to show all 18 holes of The Masters, but the
Augusta people (used to be Harding, but it seems the new chairman will
continue this tradition) would not allow it. I think it's got to do with "too
much equipment in the premises" or some other stupid argument like that. They
said that CBS was hoping to convince the new chairman to allow full coverage.
Still, CBS broadcasts 4 hours on each of the last 2 rounds, so they cover the
back-9 of quite a few players.

Now going back to the announcers: I totally dislike Musberger (ignorant of the
game), Melnyk (cliches every 12 seconds), Kelly (ESPN, he can recite tables
with numbers for hours on end ... tedious). I generally like people with
a bit of humor (sometimes useful) like McCord and also with knowledge of the
game and players (McCord, Miller, gone Dave Marr, gone Lee Trevino). I like
the fact the they used pro's or ex-pro's for on-course commentary (J. Pate,
B. Clampett, etc). They're not always as entertaining but give a good idea of
what's going on as far as player's options, etc.

Martin

--
From: jimv@dadd.ti.com (Jim Vahsen,VAHZ,)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: USGA Rule Book (Free)
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:42:43 GMT
Reply-To: jimv@dadd.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.

In article 92Jul27085301@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu, ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
>While watching the US Women's Open I saw an add by the USGA to get a
>free copy of the Rules of Golf.  Just call 1-800-345-USGA (8742).  I
>don't know if this is a limited time offer.
>--
>
>--Lee Hetherington

Well, I called this number, they take your address, and then tell you it
will take 6-8 weeks!  Oh well, whaddya want for nuthin?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: Cook blows British Open
Keywords: n
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:43:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.131306.14686@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> gattuso@ssd.comm.mot.com (Christopher Gattuso) writes:
>>I found another thing disappointing. In previous Opens we've 
>>been treated to the BBC's coverage. This year it was the network
>>coverage and it was quite sad by comparison. You get to see the
>>top 4 or 5 competitors most of the time. A lot of closeups
>>(who cares) of their faces and lengthy delays while we wait for 
>>putts. Occasionally you tapes of hole in ones and shots of 
>>Greg Norman once in a while.
>>
>>It was done the way it's done each week on the PGA coverage.
>>
>>Too much putting and too few competitors shown.
>
>This is not true.  ABC used the BBC Coverage but with different announcers.
>This was mentioned at the beginning of the telecast, because they were 
>amazed at the 200 ft. crane tower they used to follow tee shots.

I found the coverage better in previous years. This year it was
more like the PGA events ABC covers. I've no idea why the
coverage was different, (I retract saying it was network coverage)
only that it was IMO disappointing.

Mike N.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve K Cramer)
Subject: Re: Gerald Ford Invitational
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:21:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.131603.1136@mksol.dseg.ti.com> whitley@mksol.dseg.ti.com
writes:
>
>Just wondering if anyone has ever been to the Jerry Ford
>Invitational in Vail/Beaver Creek?  It is supposed to have
>Pros and celebrities.
>
>-Harlan
>
>
> Swing!


Swing hell, DUCK!  ;-)

*******************************************************************************
Steve Cramer               scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"just hit it"              614-292-8481
*******************************************************************************
From: marglin@milton.u.washington.edu (Stephen Marglin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Golf Instruction in Washington
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:45:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.marglin.711999907
Organization: University of Washington

Does anyone have any specific recommendations regarding golf instruction
in and around Seattle, WA?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: dbd@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.b.delorme)
Subject: Re: Survey of Good Golf Instruction Books
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 13:40:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.191612.23406@cs.brown.edu> kmc@cs.brown.edu (Ken Curewitz) writes:
>
>-- 
>What are your opinions on good books on golf?
>
>From those which I've read, I like Hogan's book, Fundamentals of Modern Golf
>the best.
>
>Ken Curewitz
>Brown University  Box 1910  Providence RI 02912
>kmc@brown.cs.edu

I've read two golf instruction books: Golf My Way by Jack Nicklaus
and Shark Attack by Greg Norman.  I enjoyed reading both of them.
Nicklaus' book is primarily on the fundamentals of golf while
Norman's goes into some of the more advanced shots, like putting
alot of backspin on the ball and scrambling to get out of a bad lie.

While I enjoyed both of these books and I found the instructions
in these books to be reasonable, I found that when I tried to 
incorporate these tips into my own swing, my swing went straight
to hell.  When I played after reading each of these books, I was
spraying balls all over the golf course.  It took me hours at the 
driving range and going back to what my teaching pro taught me 
before I got my old swing back.  So what if I can only drive 
a ball 220 yards.  At least with my old swing I can hit the
ball straight.

For me, the books are entertaining reading, but lessons are the 
only things that have improved my golf swing.

David DeLorme
AT&T Bell Labs
Columbus, Ohio
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: brash@reg.triumf.ca (BRASH, ED)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Rules Question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.191034.24753@osf.org>, ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes...
>In article <1992Jul28.163942.27215@convex.com>, sercely@convex.com (Ron Sercely) writes:
>|> >|> 
>|> >|> Would it be any different if B asked the question after he (and
>|> >|> everyone else) had completed their shots?  Would the advice help
>|> >|> further along in the round?
>|> >
>|> >  No - you can't ask for advice from your opponent - anytime during the round!!
>|> >
>|> >
>|> >-Ron Birnbaum
>|> 
>|> I think you got this one wrong Ron.  It is true that you can never ask or give
>|> advice during a round, but this situation is NOT advice.
> 
>  Ahhh - I guess I'm glad I called the USGA for a free copy of the rules!!
>  You have to study the rules to be able to play by the rules - and not
>  playing by the rules isn't really playing golf!
> 
>|> Rule 8 defines advice as follows:
>|> "Advice" is any counsel or suggestion which could influence a player in
>|> determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.
>|> 
>|> After both players have hit, they may discuss club selection to their hearts
>|> content because it CANNOT influence the shot which just occured.  However, if
>|> there were a third player who had not hit who could overhear them, I would deem
>|> that they would both be guilty of giving advice.
>|> 
>|> Note that the definition says "could" influence.  Any reasonable possibility of
>|> influencing is consisdered advice, like:
>|> Sure is a strong wind in our face.
>|> Boy that looks like a fast put.
>|> Etc.
> 
>  I sit corrected! Thank you!
> 
>-Ron
> 
> 
>|> Ron Sercely

Don't give up so easily, Ron, I am not convinced that you were wrong.
For example, Player A could have say played a high five wood to the
green, which Player B knows is about 200 yards away.  Player B, not
knowing how much his ball will be affected by the wind, decides to 
play a knockdown 3 iron and keep it out of the wind.  After the hole
he asks Player A what he played, and thereby can gain some insight on
how the wind is going to affect a high wood shot, which he may have
to hit later on in the round.  

What do you think ?

Later,
Ed.
From: mcole@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: New England Classic at Pleasant Valley.
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:27:58 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

Hello fellow golfnuts.  I made a visit to Pleasant Valley CC today
to watch some of the big boys play golf.  The threesome of the day 
had to have been Steve Pate,  Brad Faxon, and Peter Jacobson.  I was
exited to see Pate play but Brad Faxon really impressed me.  He could
have played a little faster but has (from what I saw) a very solid 
all-around game.  He made some great up and down's, hit a few big 
drives including one on the very narrow 2nd hole.  I also got a chance
to watch John Cook who seems a little shaky (understandably) coming off
of last week.  Steve Elkington was playing with Cook and was another one
of my favorites.  He has a solid game and attacks the greens.  The main
reason I wen't to this tournament was to see one Phil Mickleson.  He
seemed nervous which is understandable with the ammount of pressure there
is on him to perform.  He and Zoeller had the largest groups following
they're respective threesome's.  What a smooth and fluid swing Mickleson
has, effortless, beautiful.  Hits the ball high and long most of the time,
which is to my liking.  Probably the thing that surprised me the most 
about watching these guys was how very low they hit they're short irons 
into the green,  even from  <50yds.  I myself am known to sweep the ball
off the fairway without taking a divot, and I do it pretty well.  My 
question is, is there a reason why sooo many of the pro's hit the ball
so low into the greens.  I know about the backspin and all but the few
guys that I saw hitting it in there high were able to control the ball
just fine.  If you made it all the way through this message, thanks for
hanging in there.  I am still pretty exited about what I saw today.


Michael P Cole
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bohdan.kiszczuk@rose.com (bohdan kiszczuk)
Subject: Hitting straight
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:36:43 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 07-23-92 11:23

A(> From: andy@ee.man.ac.uk (Andrew Nisbet (PhD))
A(> Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
A(> Subject: Re: Hitting straight
A(> Date: 22 Jul 92 08:59:16 GMT
A(> Reply-To: andy@spec0.ee.man.ac.uk (Andrew Nisbet (PhD))

A(> >I've been playing golf for about 5 years now, but only recently 
have I started
A(> >taking it very seriously.  I'm decent with club distance, chipping, putting,
A(> >etc, but my BIG problem is hitting the ball without slice, especially off
A(> >the tee.
A(> >
A(> A slice can be caused by many faults in the grip, stance or swing. If you want
A(> to eradicate this slice and get a reliable repeating swing I would recommend
A(> reading ``The Modern Fundamentals Of Golf'' by Ben Hogan (it worked for me). 
A(> The publisher used to be Kaye and Ward in the UK but I think it might be Simon
A(> and Schuster now. 
A(> 
A(> Andy.

     It IS Simon & Schuster. The clarity of the writing is 
unsurpassed. The book describes all the elements of the swing very 
clearly. As presented, I think Hogan stands too tall but you couldn't 
go wrong trying to emulate his swing. And this from a book first 
published in 1957.
---
   RR 1.60 R001028: ======== bohdan.kiszczuk@rose.com ===========
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: gturk@bnr.ca (Glenn Turk P925)
Subject: Re: Average hitting distances continued
Reply-To: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:07:05 GMT

In article <koenig.711908570@hydra>, koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig) writes:
|> hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan) writes:
|> >Hmmmm.... I hit the ball extremely well, yet can't seem to shake my handicap
|> >below a fifteen or so. Played very competitively in high school, but went 
|> >downhill from there. Can any one help with a few hints?
|> 
|> >.....stuff deleted...
|> 
|> >Average about 3-4 greens per nine, about 34-36 putts for 18.
|> >Low round: 76 Hardly ever over 100 (once or twice in my life)
|> 
|> 3-4 greens per nine, 34-36 putts...problems solved, you need to practice
|> chipping and putting.  If you miss the green, you are not chipping close
|> enough and then making the putt, OR you are chipping well, but then you
|> miss the putt.  After you get your chipping/putting fixed, work on better
|> target orientation to the green.

Agreed.  I started tracking my performance recently in terms of
Score/fairways hit/greens hit/putts as well as birds/pars/bogeys/worse.

My distances (posted earlier) are about the same as Brian's.
BTW, for all you equipment fan's out there, I have been playing the
same set of Hogan Director forged irons (Stiff shafts) since I bought
them USED 13 years ago.  The only things in my bag that have changed
are the driver (was Jerry Barber laminate, now a Toney Penna persimmon)
and the putter (Spalding Elite -> Ray Cook -> Slotline depending
on my mood).  Fairway woods are Lynx persimmon (c. 1977).
Moral: Buying a better game is not always the answer.

I do consider chipping to be one of the stronger parts of my game.
Here are my stats (8.2 index on a 117 slope course - don't remember
the course rating, off hand, par 71 (3 par-5s)):

Rounds: 10 (since I began tracking)
Low:	73
High	82 (twice)
Avg:	78.5 (HCP has fallen from 11 to 8 in these ten rounds)
Fwys:	63% (8.8)
Grns:	39% (7.0)
Ptts:	31.7

As you can see I miss 10-12 greens a round (closer to 10, one of my
82's only had one green hit , but made up with only 28 putts, thus
up and down's helped enormously.

Yes, Mark, what I'm working on now IS target orientation.  One of the
things that has improved this the most is paying MUCH more attention
to my address/pre-shot routine.  I found that I was not as consistant
with my ball position in my stance as I should be.  This has made
for more consistant shot results.  Now, if I could only control my
driver.  (Most of the time I hit a fairway wood, it's a tight, not
so long course).

The other thing that tracking has helped, is pointing out the
holes that give me the most problem.  They do not track the HCP on
the scorecard, except for the top two or three.  I focus more on
what I need to do to score on these holes, and I feel that has helped
in lowering my scores.

-- 
Glenn R. Turk
email: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
(919)991-8593 ESN 294-8593
Bell Northern Research, RTP, NC
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: YAGR (ball in tree)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:04:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.151133.10276@convex.com> sercely@convex.com (Ron Sercely) writes:
>In article <ILH.92Jul30095924@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>>Anybody know what happens if your ball stops in a tree?  Do you treat
>>is an an unplayable lie?  Can you shake the tree?
>
>If your ball is in the tree, you either play it as it lies, or you declare it
>unplayable.  If you were to simply shake the tree and the ball falls to the ground,
>there would be a 2 stroke penalty for breach of Rule 13 for improving your lie.
>
>However, shaking the tree is often the appropriate thing to do!  Announce to
>your fellow competitor that IF that is your ball in the tree you are declaring
>it unplayable. Now the ball is out of play, and you may move the ball without
>further penalty.  The purpose of having the ball fall is so that you can
>identify the ball as yours!  Simply seeing a ball in a tree where you think
>your ball is is NOT identifing the ball, unless you can truly see markings that
>allow you identify it as "the ball" in play, not a ball.
>
>Ron

 Good reason #10 for uniquely marking your ball. A felt pen in a
 specific dimple pattern.

 I seem to remember a occurrance numerous years ago (folklore?)
 where a pro shook a tree and more than 1 identical type ball
 fell out of the tree (or maybe it was that there was no way
 to show it was his ball since other balls might still be up there.

 A competitor of mine once hit the same type ball after hitting a 
 provisional. Of course the second landed near the first. I asked
 which of his was the original that would be laying 1. He didn't
 know (both were new balls). I suggested that he might want to 
 go back and hit five off the tee but relented since he had an awful
 score already and I wasn't into an argument. He hit the worst of the
 two which was "fair" but of course was not correct. I wasn't keeping
 his score. I wonder what I would have done had he beat me out of a 
 prize (he didn't since neither of us won anything).

 Had he won any prize I would have been tempted but most likely
 would not have brought the matter to the attention of the scorers.

 Mike N.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:33:44 GMT

ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes:

>In article <1992Jul29.103205.19697@st-andrews.ac.uk>, gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay) writes:
>|> In article <1992Jul28.170926.10169@access.usask.ca> donald@dvinci.USask.Ca (David Donald) writes:
>|> >jean-k@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jean Kalich) writes:
>|> >
>|> >>CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE SATUS OF THE WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN PLAYOFF?
>|> >
>|> >Yes... The other lady (darn, now I forget her name) beat Julie Inkster (her 
>|> >name I remember cause she's a Canadian - like me!) by two strokes in the 
>|> >18 hole playoff yesterday.
>|> 
>|> Does anyone know who the other lady was??

>  The 'other lady' is Patty Sheehan - who is now just one victory short of
>  the LPGA Hall of Fame - the most difficult Hall of Fame to make in all
>  of Sports! Amy Alcott is also just 1 victory short. It's pretty certain
>  that Patty will make it, but Amy hasn't played well in a year. 

>-Ron

Further to this line, I don't think Julie Inkster is a Canadian...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker)
Subject: New practice balls
Organization: DuPont Central Research & Development
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:53:31 GMT

Has anyone tried those new golf practice balls which have the heavy rubber
(?) core and the foam outside?  They purport to "sound and feel" like the 
real thing, but I haven't tried them.  Anything would be better than those
plastic balls.

Scott
******************************************************
Scott C. Walker
walkersc@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

+++The few opinions I express are not the opinions of my employer.
"What's settled down?  Settled down is you get married and then you buy a
house.  You can get a wood house, a plaster house or a stucco house.  
Oh, how you can get stucco!"  - David Lee Roth, on Rockline
******************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf