From: koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: Yet more civilization questions
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:15:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Instead of doing something worthwhile, I managed to buy Civilization and
am now trying not to waste *too* much time playing it...

I have some questions.  For reference: I can do well consistently at
level 1 ("Chieftain").  Level 2 ("Warlord") feels like an even match,
and level 3 ("Prince") I can only do well at until the mid 1800s or so,
and then things go downhill quickly from there :-)

Here are my questions, in random order:

  - I usually move from Despotism to Republic as quickly as possible,
    skipping all intermediate steps.  Is there any particular reason to
    go through the others?  It doesn't take very long to develop the
    Republic, and that's usually about the time I want to change anyway.
    I figure that the fewer governmental changes, the better.

  - Along similar lines, I usually stay at Republic for the duration of
    the game and not move to Democracy.  From the description in the
    manual, Democracy sounds very close to Republic, except that you
    make more citizens unhappy by moving military units out of the city.
    Is there any good reason to go to Democracy instead of Republic?  It
    just sounds harder to keep your people happy.

  - The game always seems to end early, and not because another
    civilization has gotten to space, either.  According to the manual,
    there are 5 ways to end the game: you quit (from the menu), you
    retire (again from the menu), your civ. is destroyed, another civ.
    gets to Alpha Centauri first, or you conquer the world.  But there
    seems to be another, unwritten condition for ending.  Along about
    2040 or so, the game puts up a banner saying, "<your leader> plans
    retirement in 20 years!".  (This is *without* using the retire
    option in the game menu).  Then, in 20 years, the game ends.  This
    is usually just about the point where things are starting to get
    interesting, and its always frustrating.  Once or twice I've had the
    game end because another civ. got to AC first, but usually my games
    end because of this "forced retirement".  As far as I can tell, it
    isn't mentioned in the manual anywhere.  What's going on?  Most of
    the time, nobody has built a spaceship by this time.

  - Similarly, does it seem to anyone else that there isn't enough time
    to get all the needed advances and build the spaceship?  Here's what
    happens for me.  I start out with a 100% scientific budget.  I get a
    new discovery about every 8 to 11 turns.  As soon as possible, I
    convert to Republic, and build libraries, universities, and a few
    scientists.  I have to lower the scientific budget to about 50% or
    so in order to make some money, but with everything else, I still
    get advancements about every 15 to 21 turns.  That seems like a
    reasonable pace, but yet, there is no way I can keep up with other
    civilizations.  On level 3, other civilizations are building
    ironclads when I'm just getting sailing ships, and they have
    spacecraft technology when I'm just getting flight.  How do they get
    so far ahead?  I don't think I can support a higher science budget,
    and I build all the universities and libraries that i can, and often
    try for the Wonders which increase your learning rate.  Sometimes I
    even get a few advancements by invading other cities.  Is there any
    hope of keeping up?  I can't maintain a 100% scientific budget once
    my civilization starts needing money to support itself.

  - Often, I build a large city which is more or less thriving.  Then,
    some units from another civ. will move in and plop themselves on top
    of the squares around my city, and "pillage" to destroy the
    irrigation and mines.  I can't kick them out, because my Republic
    government won't let me break a truce.  They succeed in killing my
    city, because without the irrigation and mines, the city can't
    support itself any more - it looses people and resources, becomes
    unable to support the military units it has placed around the map,
    and just basically withers and dies.  Is there anything that I can
    do to stop them?  Why can't I "return the favor"?  I can never
    pillage around *their* cities unless they outright attack me.  I'm
    sure I have lost games due to this sort of thing - they never
    declare war, but they march through my territory and wipe out all my
    cities by removing resources and food.

  - Similarly, once in a while enemy units will surround my city with an
    impressive array of military hardware, building up what is obviously
    an invasion force over about 5 or 10 turns.  Doing this, they can
    stop *my* units from moving near them.  They are obviously going to
    invade, but I can't attack them first.  So I have to sit there and
    wait for them to attack me.  Is there any way to be a bit more
    proactive about this?  After the battle starts, the city is more or
    less doomed since they can cut off the food and resources for that
    city.  The only way I can figure to avoid this is to surround each
    and every one of my cities completely with defensive units.  But
    that's a pretty big waste of resources and makes lots of people
    unhappy.  Blocking off "bottleneck" areas of the continent doesn't
    help, because they can move in with ships.

  - What happens to a trade route with a different civ. if the other
    side declares war on you?

  - Have you ever seen a sailing vessel kill a battleship?  It happens!

  - One useful tactic: if you are at war, and have a battleship before
    the other side does, you can often cripple them by shelling their
    coastal cities into the stone age.  Even one battleship can often
    circle a continent shelling each coastal city in turn.

  - How much does it cost to "support" various military units?  Often,
    right before a critical battle, I'll get a message like "Boston
    can't support battleship!" and my battleship will up and disappear
    off the face of the map.  This can be annoying!

  - Is it useful to enlist the aid of one civilization against another
    you are at war with?  I've never done this because they always
    demand some huge fee (like 2000 units) that I'm not able to pay
    since I've used most of my money to buy hardware to fight the folks
    who declared war on me in the first place.

  - What's the "optimal" number of cities to found early in the game?  I
    usually try to get about 5 to 7 major cities.  Usually 2 or 3 of
    them turn out to be really good, 1 or 2 are a big flop, and the rest
    are average.  Is there any reason not to build more cities early in
    the game in order to get more production capacity later?  I've been
    thinking about trying, as early as possible, to send out as many
    settlers as possible to found new cities.

  - I've found that the size of the continent you start on has a lot to
    do with how well you can do.  Since it takes a little while to get
    ships, you are sometimes limited to 3 cities or so if you have the
    misfortune to get a small island from the beginning.

  - Has anyone come up with a better screen font than that awful one
    that is the default?  (You know, the one with the thick caps and
    thin lower case letters?)

  - There are 20 squares around your city to put people in.  After your
    city size reaches 20, what happens to the extra people?  (I've never
    gotten a city over 19, but I've heard its possible).

  - After you get a better defensive unit type for a city, is there any
    reason to keep the old type around?  Should i keep militia after
    I've gotten riflemen?  Is there any cost to support them if they are
    in the city itself?

  - Whenever I'm in the "negotiation" menu, the "demand payment for our
    trouble" option is always greyed out and unselectable.  Why?

That's about all for now, I guess...

  - steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games