HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Recruiting Devices? (was Mr. Cramer's strange views)
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:28:52 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep29.171508.13226@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>   Gawd, is it just me or does it seem these conspiracy folks need
> help for their paranoid delusions?
> 
> In article <12528@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# # There are several problems with your assumptions, including the
# # fact that the damage done by homosexual child molesters appears to
# # be more serious.  At least one of the scholarly works I've found
# # indicates that homosexual child molestation appears to be a
# # recruiting device into adult homosexuality.  (That doesn't mean
#   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# # that every homosexual so recruited beomes a child molester --
# # the conditions that create pedophiles appear to be molestation
# # by a slightly older child.)
# 
#   Are you seriously trying to say that there is some organized effort
# to recruit homosexuals into some queer-corps? Where are the leaders of

I didn't say that at all.  But if a class of people engage in similar
behaviors that have the effect of recruiting people into a particular
lifestyle, it doesn't require a conspiracy.

# this massive conspiracy? And molestors are the front line shock-troops
# to get "normal" folks into the corps? And if only we could get rid
# of the front line troops and maybe break the ringleaders, homosexuality
# would go away?

Where did I say that?

# 		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Freedom of Association vs. Equal Opportunity
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:56:11 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <195270@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

>Neither side is able to convince the other and neither side is willing to
>budge. So I have to ask, why continue the debate? For that matter, why even
>have a debate?

Well, I HAVE budged, a lot. Frankly, I'm tired of the debate, too, and the
fact that my opponents refuse to concede anything.

>Whatever happened to the principles of cooperation and compromise?

I did offer a compromise. Not forcing any company to adhere to anti-discrim-
ination legislation, but instead giving tax credits to any company that
signs non-discriminatory contracts with its employees.

I'd welcome debating this (or OTHER) compromises. Let's leave the basic
argument where it is...at a stand-off.

Brian
Xref: sparky ca.politics:8247 talk.politics.misc:48322 ba.politics:5686
From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
Subject: Medical costs for various groups (was 'tolerance')
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:49:12 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <d00n11-.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <19vdg1INNjhe@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>    >In article <y69n2wn.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil
>    >Ronzone) writes:
>    >
>    >Actually, homosexuals have statistically lower medical costs,
>    >because in general, we do not have children. Children are the
>    >most expensive being to get health insurance for.
>
>Incorrect. And I should know. I have my own medical insurance for
>my daughter, age 3.5, and it is very cheap. $31 a month. I have
>the complete Blue Cross charts and it gets more expensive as one
>gets older.
>

Incorrect- Jeff statement is that homosexuals are cheaper because they
do not childern, it is not a statement about heteros having childern.
If you took only stats for homosexuals you might find that they are
in general a lower cost risk group- this is not necessarily so, but
from my own experience and the knowledge of others this seems true.
One of the largest health risk are probably middle aged and up men
who smoke and eat poorly.

Anyway with the shape that Blue Cross is in as an insurance company
I would not bet much on their charts and stats.  I would have a little
more confidence in a group that does independent analysis of the state
of medical cost.  Keep in mind that any insurance company will skew the
results to their benefit and the methods of data collection are not
the most reliable in the world.
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: <None>
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:04:18 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <12585@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
[cross-posting from soc.motss deleted]

Clayton, just what was your purpose in posting this?  Was this supposed
to prove something?  Was I supposed to be scared by it?  Was I supposed
to find this offensive?  Was it supposed to make a point?  I'm completely
in the dark over your motives on this.

First of all, the posting had absolutely nothing to do with politics, which
makes your cross-posting to three political groups completely inappropriate.
Second, all the posting consisted of was a description of a completely
harmless fetish for plastic (a fetish, by the way, shared by a fair number
of heterosexuals).  Third, your claim was that this was a "typical" post.
I suggest you review the definition of "typical", and then return and tell
us why you believe this was typical.  Be prepared to give us the statistics
to back up your claim.  (In my opinion, the only thing "typical" of this
post was that it was a typical Clayton Cramer post, devoid of content.)

Even for you, this was really a lame posting.  If this is the worst you
can come up with from soc.motss, I'd say your crusade is in real trouble.
Get a life, Clayton, and get some counselling.  You need both.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky ca.politics:8242 talk.politics.misc:48246 ba.politics:5682
From: sarahb@fanfare.EBay.Sun.COM (Sarah Bate)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: What happened to the weekly report?
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:38:25 GMT
Reply-To: sarahb@fanfare.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: fanfare.ebay.sun.com


I used to read the weekly EQ report but no longer reveive
it.  Is it not mailed anymore or is it just my system?


Thanks,

Sarah


_____________________________________________________________________
:remialcsid
"Hey, did you feel that?"
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Quake Day - Minus 4
Followup-To: ca.earthquakes
Keywords: reinforcements
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:35:05 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

weiss@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:

>Well, I don't know about you guys in NoCal, but the folks in SoCal learned
>about vertical earthquake motion and its results in the Sylmar Quake of 1971.
>As a result, the overpasses in SoCal have been retrofitted to handle those
>stresses as well.  Roadways have been "tied" to their supporting beams.

I've noticed this up here in the Bay Area, also. There's a freeway overpass
and ramp complex being built alongside 280 ( southbound ), just before a
large shopping complex ( Serramonte, if you wonder ) which has all of the
horizontal and vertical members ( the compressive elements ) held together
by struts running between opposite corners of each 'cube' of structure, so
that the whole assembly is held together not only by gravity, but stressed
with cabling under tension, as well.

Hooray for CalTrans !!

-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
From: jeff@cpvax.cpses.tu.com
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Quake Day - Minus 4
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:11:26 CDT
Organization: Texas Utilities, Glen Rose TX 


>> >is the glass in skyscrapers.  There is no engineering that can be done
>> >to guarantee that it will not come down in a quake.

                **** Random Deletions ****
>> falling by the tape.  Perhaps the "tape" could be continuously
>> anchored to the glass at the edges, or there could be an internal
>> "safety" plastic layer, like automobile glass, so the majority of a
>> panel would remain supported even if there's cracking?

                **** Other Deletions ****
> I guess I shouldn't have said nothing can be done.  I really meant that I'm
> not aware that the engineers have found really good solution to this problem.

 Several years ago when I lived in Southern Cal, I saw a PBS show about
 earthquakes.  I'm sorry but I haven't the faintest idea what the name
 of the show was.  Any how, part of the program covered the problem of
 window glass falling from skyscrapers onto people below.  A lab in Japan
 addressed this problem by first seeing what would happen to dummies
 set up below a building that had some windows knocked out.  It seems that
 the glass hits the ground, shatters and glass shrapnel goes flying
 everywhere.  The dummies had glass stuck into pretty much every square
 inch of their bodies.  Not a pleasant thought.

 One of their solutions was to place some kind of plastic sheet (I'm not
 too sure of the details) in between two panes of glass.  Under the 
 stresses that would cause a normal window to shatter, the test windows
 would break, but the glass would not fall to the street since it was
 stuck to the plastic sheet.  I can't remember if the new glass was
 attached to the building any differently than normal glass.

 I'm sorry that I don't know the name of the program or any more of the
 technical details since it has been a few years since I saw it.  I
 just wanted to share the fact that *someone* out there has been looking
 at the problem.

                        j-squared
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Quake Day - Minus 4
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:08:47 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

>sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:

>> BTW, the modern codes are much less stringent than widely believed.  For
>> example, building codes do not require a home to survive a large 
>> earthquake - only that when it collapse it do so in a way that minimizes
>> the chances of killing the inhabitants.  No one knows how to build a 
>> house that can withstand a once-per century earthquake without falling,
>> at least at reasonable cost.  Even if money were no object I'm not sure
>> it could be done.

Check out ferrocement geodesic domes. Built like ... well, built like a
ferrocement steel-reinforced boat hull. These hulls can ram rocks and not
suffer anything more than scraping noises. Their land-locked equivalents
are _very_ stable and essentially undestructable without power tools.

-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: Darren.Hanson@f271.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: <pout>
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Oct  1 1992
Date: 01 Oct 92  23:26:00

Here it is 9/28 and neither of the two quakes that were supposed
to happen have. <grumb> <grumble> <grump> Here's hoping for Dego
(San Diego to you non-locals) on the 14th of October!

--
__
\/  Darren Hanson

---
From: weiss@boole.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Monitoring
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:35:18 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

In article <u3RNRB2w165w@quake.sylmar.ca.us> nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes:
>Oh, while I was down near Landers.... Remember that Bowling Alley
>that lost the whole side wall? (That wall was right on the fault)
>Well now there is a whole new shopping center being built only
>a few hundred feet from there!

The question that immediately comes to my mind is "So?"  The reason that wall
fell was that it was unreinforced masonry.  No surprise that it fell.  Also no
liklihood that the new shopping center will be anything more than wood or
aluminum frame coated in stucco.  Those things simply do not fall.
-- 
\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | /
-  Michael  weiss@seas.ucla.edu   |  School of Engineering & Applied Science  -
-   Weiss   izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu  |   University of California, Los Angeles   -
/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \ 
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: johnk@gordian.com (John Kalucki)
Subject: Re: Auroraquake
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:44:29 GMT

In article <1af8ccINNg8k@news.aero.org>, wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen) writes:
>In article <8233@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:
>>Well, it looks like there has been yet another Auroraquake this morning.  You
>>know, the ones where it has all the indications of a P-wave, without any
>>subsequent S-wave, and it travels across the Southland on Thursday mornings.
>>
>>I was too tired to make note of the time...I think it was about 6:10am or so.
>
>It was 6:08 am by my clock.  I thought someone was running across my
>ceiling -- the shocks came in a short sharp pattern.  Definitely no
>ground movement, though.
>
>-- 
>William A. Emanuelsen    "You'll never get famous by repeating what
>wae@aerospace.aero.org      other people say." -- Bartlett's Mom.

I clocked it at about 6:10ish also. The door to my bedroom isn't
hung correctly and rattles very easily. It's my earthquake alarm:
loud and fairly sensitive.  It was banging back and forth for what
seemed like 7 to 10 seconds, two or three times a second, followed by
a slight pause and then a second or so of more banging. 

The door was good and loud too, somewhat louder than the Landers-Big
Bear shakers and considerably louder than the previous Auroraquakes
about a year or so ago.


		-John Kalucki
		johnk@gordian.com

Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Quake Day - Minus 4
Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:08:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.205405.8446@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett) writes:
>
>>rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>
>>>Check out ferrocement geodesic domes. . . .  Their land-locked equivalents
>>>are _very_ stable and essentially undestructable without power tools.
>
>>	Yeah, but when the Big One (tm) comes, they roll downhill,
>>crushing your neighbors' matchbox houses to flinders.  If you survive
>>being bounced around inside the ferro-concrete ball, the lawyers will
>>get you when  you crawl out -- if it doesn't wind up in  the water first.
>
>Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about, and have a hard time
>distinguishing between spheres and hemispheres.
>
Hell, son, they just go 'roll, thump, roll, thump...'.

>If you don't have anything substantial to contribute, I formally invite
>you to sit on your hands and refrain from generating misinformation.
>
>Sorry, a little "(-:" doesn't save you from being regarded as a halfwit.
>
Waht's wrong today, Rich?  A bad wedgie?

>-- richard
>
>-- 
>=====
>-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
>         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
          ^^^^^^
Oh, *that's* what's wrong!

(smiley's implied or not, according to the desires of the reader...).

kbq


--
Kevin Quinn                         | kevinq@ingres.com
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Auroraquake
Followup-To: ca.earthquakes
Date: 1 Oct 1992 16:18:20 GMT
Organization: Quakebusters, Inc.
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org
Summary: Footsteps in the dark

In article <8233@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:
>Well, it looks like there has been yet another Auroraquake this morning.  You
>know, the ones where it has all the indications of a P-wave, without any
>subsequent S-wave, and it travels across the Southland on Thursday mornings.
>
>I was too tired to make note of the time...I think it was about 6:10am or so.

It was 6:08 am by my clock.  I thought someone was running across my
ceiling -- the shocks came in a short sharp pattern.  Definitely no
ground movement, though.

-- 
William A. Emanuelsen    "You'll never get famous by repeating what
wae@aerospace.aero.org      other people say." -- Bartlett's Mom.
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1147 sci.skeptic:17091
From: rogers@isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Quake Day - Minus 4
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:27:54 GMT
Reply-To: rogers@blips.isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers)
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute
Keywords: wizard, quake, predict, sky quakes

In article <1992Sep25.011340.17845@pony.Ingres.COM> kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes:
>In article <19ta55INN699@news.aero.org> helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman) writes:
>>The San Mateo Bridge, which is miles closer to the epicenter than
>>the Bay bridge, is a single prestressed arch. It didn't seem bothered
>>at all.
>From what I remember, it *did* come very close to failure - and a failure
>would have resulted in a 5 foot drop with possible severe roadbed failure.
>(seems one or more of the mounting saddles cracked and/or moved close to
>it's travel limit...  It's been a while!).

	Hmmm...  all I find in Competing Against Time (p. 24) is:

Ffailure of steel rocker bearings; opened to traffic after a few hours.

					Craig Milo Rogers
From: weiss@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Earthquake Engineering
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:57:58 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

In article <1a04dnINNjui@gap.caltech.edu> sdg@wag.caltech.edu (Siddharth Dasgupta) writes:
>...one of the recommended methods was to put stell
>jackets around the columns. I have seen the overpass of 605 North to
>210 West for example fitted with metal jackets.

Right.  The jackets help prevent "exploding" columns due to buckling, and also
hold shear loads that come in odd directions.

>I have heard from my brother-in-law that Dr. Priestley believes that
>masonry will withstand quakes better than woodframe. This is of course
>not masonry in the traditional sense but I do not know any more
>details of how it is improved. Apparently this view is not universally
>held. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Well, masonry and unreinforced concrete share one important property.  They
hold compressive loads beautifully, but they are rotten at holding shear and
tensile loads.  This makes them ideal materials for any structure that would
remain in one place, where the only loads are due to gravity.  As soon as the
foundation moves, the structure is no longer useful.  Think of it as being a
deck of cards.  You can put a Mack truck on a deck of cards and the deck won't
fail, but as soon as you push from side to side (shear), the deck will fall
right over.  Worse, if you pull on the top card, nothing will hold it in place
but a little gravity.

So that's why masonry is bad from a seismic standpoint.  Clearly, then, if one
wishes to use bricks or concrete, additional materials must be used to counter
tensile and shear forces.  In concrete, a composite of concrete and steel is
used ("rebar") to handle primarily tensile stresses (which occur either under
pulling on both ends, or under bending, where one side is under tensile stress
and the other under compressive stress), but also to improve the shear stress
handling abilities.  Jacketing in steel does a much better job at handling
shear.

Onto masonry.  Bricks truly behave like that deck of cards, since the mortar
withstands virtually no shear or tension.  The bricks either pull apart or
slide across each other.  So, what can be done with bricks?  There are newer
kinds of bricks that interlock and don't require mortar.  Those tend to handle
shear fairly well, but still can't handle the tensile stresses.  I'm not sure
what would be done to counteract the tensile weakness.

Hope you found this helpful.
-- 
\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | /
-  Michael  weiss@seas.ucla.edu   |  School of Engineering & Applied Science  -
-   Weiss   izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu  |   University of California, Los Angeles   -
/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
From: weiss@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Auroraquake
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:54:29 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

Well, it looks like there has been yet another Auroraquake this morning.  You
know, the ones where it has all the indications of a P-wave, without any
subsequent S-wave, and it travels across the Southland on Thursday mornings.

I was too tired to make note of the time...I think it was about 6:10am or so.
-- 
\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | /
-  Michael  weiss@seas.ucla.edu   |  School of Engineering & Applied Science  -
-   Weiss   izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu  |   University of California, Los Angeles   -
/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \