From: a0cb@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversations with a Rabbi
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:46:58 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:


>Some of us have ignored Dmitry's advice and have read the J4J propoganda.
>We do know what it says and we can counter it.  The question is, how many
>times must we read it befre we recognize it from the first paragraph and
>can tell it is the same trash?  At what point is plowing through an
>avalanche of garbage considered a waste of time?  Why can't those who ahve
>read and refuted their trash summarize for others?  Why can't that
>summary be passed by those who haven't read it to others who haven't so as
>to save more poeple the trouble?

Who are you saving trouble?  What makes you think your evaluation of the
material is at all correct or open-minded enough (or close-minded
enough) for all of the other intellects that read and post here
regularly?

You don't have to read the 'propaganda' multiple times, once will do.
However, don't make the statement that it is the same propaganda
every time, unless you know that to be fact (which you wouldn't
unless you investigated the material).  Is this getting clearer
now?

Another article has a follow-up to this same thread which shows the
foolishness of such a statement.  Should have the same Subject line
if you are interested.

>For even the most worthwhile of hisotrical reading, have _you_ read the
>all the primary sources of all the books you've  read or do you also trust
>some of the secondary sources?

Of course not.  But the argument I was making was not for those that had
taken the initiative to read and understand, as you say you have done. It
was for others NOT TO TAKE THE WORD OF A PARANOID, and to find out for
themselves. 
> ...

>>I am not talking about freedom of religion.  I am talking about
>>preserving cultural heritage.  Were you aware that 80-90% of
>>intermarriages produce children that wish to pursue the
>>religious aspects of Judaism? Even when one parent is non-practicing! 
>>The reason for that is due to the continuation of Jewish cultural 
>>practices.  For the Jews to continue through time, these people
>>must be made welcome while they re-discover their Judaism.
>>Your attitude is what can drive those people, searching for their

>Where do you get this statistic (other than thin air)?

Check the Intermarriage Handbook.  I can get the exact reference for
you if you need it, I don't have it handy.

>All surveys and
>poles - whether done by secular, Reform, or religious Jewish

Sources?

>organizations - point to the opposite.  Intermarriage is one of the

I wonder if there is a sampling Bias by the more Orthodox sects' polls,
considering the population they would have, or even consider as
usable, for samples?

>most certain guarantees that the next or subsequent generation will
>have lost its connection to Judaism.  Yes, there are Jewish
>organizations that are fighting this, and of course there are people
>that retain their connection to Judaism, but they are the exception.

Sources?  I have heard this before, but I just can't seem to find
unbiased/impartial polls that show this to be true.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish