From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:54:27 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

spedpr@thor.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) writes:

>See above. Unix can provide an interface with a help command.

RIGHT!

IT ***CAN*** PROVIDE that, but it DOESN'T, not yet. That's what the whole
thread is about. Users demand certain facilities that simply aren't there
(from their point of view) or too difficult to use. You don't want to put a
jumper in video recorder to see a movie, do you? Then why should users learn
to use computers the way we, the (wanna-be :) experts, use computers. If a user
expects a help command, then actually provide a help command.

>|Real operating systems, from a user's point of view, come with a gui.
>Well I wonder what this window system I'm using is then if it ain't a
>gui. You may not have noticed but X windows runs quite nicely on unix
>systems and in fact most unix systems now come with X bundled in.

You call X a GUI? I know two GUIs that use X, but no programs that use those
GUIs... Most programs have their own user interface, there are just no standards
(except for Motif and OPEN LOOK, but I've seen only a few free programs support
either of the two). Ok, NeXT did a good job, but it's also non-standard so...

>|Real operating systems install themselves from floppy.
>How do you think unix gets installed then?

By using black magic... :-) But seriously, NT won't install from floppy either.
It will install from a HUGE pile of floppies, just like UNIX. <grin>

>|Real operating systems have hyptertext help built in.
>Do they really!

Yep.

>|Real operating systems come with a suite of easy-to-use applets "mini
>|applications" not VI and RN.
>Like what exactly.

Look at Windows or OS/2 v2.0. Maybe you'd learn something... :-)

>|Real operating systems are less then $200.00.
>Well, 386BSD and Linux are both free. Coherent is $99 and I'm sure there
>are others.

Yep, but all three lack a standard graphics environment. You still log in by
using a character oriented screen. Many programs are still character oriented
and don't provide an X interface. There are no guidelines as to how X programs 
present themselves to the user. There exist as many X user interfaces as there
exist applications (well, not quite, but almost).

>You should remember that these are single user systems and  as such you
>can't really compare them to a multi-user machine which requires lots
>of ram.

Why not? Is there a difference? Linux works happily in 4M and is fully
multi-user. And so is Coherent. But of course without X.

>I'm curently working on a machine with 8Mb of ram running 386BSD unix
>and XFree86 with no problems at all. In fact, I've got a machine next
>to me that runs 386BSD quite happily on 4Mb but without X.

Well, that's 1-0 for UNIX then, isn't it?

>|Real operating systems can be bought in stores.
>Which stores exactly? You can buy unix in most computer stores. My local
>supplier can certainly supply me with SCO (though I wouldn't bother).

SCO? Come on! SCO is for businesses, not for individuals. It's too expensive,
it doesn't meet the $300 requirement...

>|Real operating systems come with at least a few months of free support.
>Dream on. In fact unix support is generally better than most. Don't

Well, that's good for UNIX, isn't it? 2-0 for UNIX.

>there's usenet which is free and personally I think provides the best
>support you can get.

RTFM

>Can't comment on OS2, I suspect it does but then the 1.0 version wasn't
>a real release :-)

But v1.3 was quite a good and reliable system. I know from experience.

>|All in all:  While this recipie may not yield the best technically
>|excellent operating system (and Unix is very nice technically), it
>|will be the operating system the users choose.

>In the long run, users go for the technically correct product because
>that's the one that continues to work.

So DOS is a technical correct product? Nope. It survived for 10 years.
Uhm, maybe Windows 3.x then? Nope. It is quite popular for a few years now.
Then CP/M was maybe? Nope. It still survives.

Nah, that's much to simple. People don't care if the grass is greener on
the other side of the fence. They know what they have and that it works for
them now. They know that it will work for them in the future too. So why bother
to change if it unsure that there are advantages? And don't tell me that we
should tell them about the advantages, the computer industry has promised soooo
many "technical correct" products already....

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,alt.folklore.computers