HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riiali@lut.fi (Beke)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:21:24 GMT
	<JANERIC.93Jan21132446@bellman.control.lth.se>
	<1993Jan21.182522.1@cc.helsinki.fi>
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

In article <1993Jan21.182522.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:

..<some lines deleted>..

   Right, there is no logical necessity to hold forever the existing
   treaties! But in Finland's case, it's prudent politics. In this
   respect I think that peace, freedom and prosperity are more important
   values than justice. Returning Karelia to Finland might be just, but
   it is not accepted by the Russian government. And IF it was accepted,
   the majority population in Karelia, Russians, would pose us some problems 
   (And the creation of infrastructure and things like that). It would be
   a mess.

   But the most important thing is that Russia will always be against
   the returning because the Russian border is contested in numerous places.
   Accordingly, this will create numerous conflicts in the near future.

   When we have a mutually recognized peacy treaty with (Soviet) Russians
   - the Paris peace treaty of 1947 - we should keep it holy! For example,
   the Estonians are not that lucky.

   Russia might break down, but our independence is secured by the
   following facts:

   (1) The Finnish-Russian border is not a contested one.
   (2) There is no considerable Russian minority in Finland that could
       be drawn to a conflict or to a civil war.

   Re-annexation of Karelia would change both these security guarantees.
   Therefore, demanding it is unpatriotic indeed.


   - Tapani Hietaniemi
     a son of a Karelian refugee


Didn`t Finnish goverment state two years ago that most parts of Paris 
peace treaty (1947) are no more valid. All military resrictions (except
nukes) was dropped. So that treaty is not anymore holy.
--
+ internet:  riiali@kannel.lut.fi               ++ Pekka Riiali           +
+      irc:  Beke  ham:  OH5LUQ                 ++ Laserkatu 2 D 12       +
+ The evil that men do lives on and on..        ++ SF-53850 LPR   FINLAND +
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: d92mbe@efd.lth.se (Martin Bergendahl)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:35:02 GMT

>This is a joke , right?
>
>-Henrik Jonsson  d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se

Hello, Henrik! So you are also reading this _very_ strange thread on
Karelia, Finns, Swedes, Estonians, palestines etc! Well, compared to
other readers, you at least tries to be calm and thoughtful...

 Anyways, of overshadowing importance for the near future is to
improve the standard of living in Russia, Estonia and other former
SSRs. My small contribution is that I am participating in a project
that will bring the tools used by students in Tallinn Technical
University up to an acceptable level. This January we installed
thirty SUN 3/50 workstations with sixty terminals, twenty SATTCONTROL
Programmable Logic Controllers, and one Altos 1086 multiuser computer.
Aid such like these can make the future round the Baltic sea look
soo much brighter!

( I think their address is ttu.ee, try email!)

< Martin Bergendahl, d92mbe@efd.lth.se >
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: smyers@boi.hp.com (steven myers)
Subject: S|rstr|mming P.U.!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:18:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

	Yes, while in Pite{ Sweden I had the displeasure of approaching a
house where they had just opened a can of the junk.  I honestly thought
that a sewer main had broken somewhere.  The closest thing that I can think
of to compare with the stench is to take a freshly soiled diaper and
actually wrap it around your face and inhale deeply.  Not as bad, but
getting there. :)

Steve Myers

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: achristo@pons.uio.no (Alf Christophersen)
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Organization: University of Oslo
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:21:42 GMT


rhtfest@cs.vu.nl (Festen RHT) writes:
>espen@coli.uni-sb.de (Espen J. Vestre) writes:
>:   Regardless of what one might think of whale hunting, it's obviously not
>: a Good Cause Worth Fighting For.  Right, there are the whalers.  But they
>: are very few in number [..]
>
>So are the whales...   :-) / :-(

Bluewhales, yes, 'vaagehval' (english term unknown to me,
baywhale??) definitely not!

>
>--
>~~~~~~~~RHT Festen, Amsterdam, The Netherlands~~~~~~~~~rhtfest@cs.vu.nl~~~~~~~~
>
From: tijoma@uta.fi (Jorma M{ntyl{)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:51:59 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

In article <hberg.308@polisci.umn.edu> hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.121444.21075@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>the occupation of Karelia,Salla and Petsamo (Petsenga).
>
>Jarmo, you silly fascist revanchist:  Finland's claims to Petsamo are 
>foreign oppression....  Bring them into Suur Suomi (Grossfinnisches 
>Reich)!  Carelia - Finlandia irredenta!  (Do you wear black or brown shirts?)

This revanchist group in Finland is rather small.  According to *many*
recent public opinion polls the clear majority of Finns oppose changing
of present Finnish borders.  Especially youth is against this - some older
people still want back to Carelia.  Only one political party (the agrarian
SMP) has openly demanded that Carelia & Petsamo should be again part of
Finland.  (SMP is a populist-style party, more a joke than a seriously taken
party, a little bit like Mogens Glistrup's party in Denmark.)

I regret that foreign readers of soc.culture.nordic may think that writers
like Mr. Ryyti or Mr. HVaisanen represent something in Finland.  They just
represent a rather small but noisy minority.

#Jorma Mantyla
#Univ. of Tampere
#Finland

PS.  Thanks to Mr. Sedergren of sending detailed information about who started
the war in 1941, and how it was done.
From: zaphod@diku.dk (Ole D. M. Lennert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: To danes abroad: The new government
Summary: The new danish government
Keywords: Denmark, government, change
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:00:26 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen


Den nye danske regering best{\a}r af:

Statsminister:			Poul Nyrup Rasmussen (S)
Minister for erhverspolitisk
samordning:			Mimi Jakobsen (CD)
{\O}konomiminister:		Marianne Jelved (R)
Boligminister og minister for
nordisk samarbejde og
{\O}sters{\o}sp{\o}rgsm{\a}l:	Flemming Kofod-Svendsen (KrF)
Finansminister:			Mogens Lykketoft (S)
Udenrigsminister:		Niels Helveg Petersen (R)
Landbrugsminister:		Bj{\o}rn Westh (S)
Milj{\o}minister:		Svend Auken (S)
Minister for kommunikation og
turisme:			Arne Melchior (CD)
Undervisningsminister:		Ole Vig Jensen (R)
Minister for udviklingsbistand: Helle Degn (S)
Indenrigsminister:		Birthe Weiss (S)
Arbejdsminister:		Jytte Andersen (S)
Skatteminister:			Ole Stavad (S)
Forsvarsminister:		Hans H{\e}kkerup (S)
Kulturminister:			Jytte Hilden (S)
Sundhedsminister:		Torben Lund (S)
Trafikminister:			Helge Mortensen (S)
Industriminister:		Jan Tr{\o}jborg (S)
Justitsminister:		Pia Gjellerup (S)
Socialminister:			Karen Jespersen (S)
Minister for teknologiudvikling
og anvendt forskning:		Svend Bergstein (CD)
Energiminister:			Jann Sjursen (KrF)
Kirkeminister:			Arne Ole Andersen (CD)

Socialdemokratiet     = (S)
Centrumdemokraterne   = (CD)
De Radikale           = (R)
Kristeligt Folkeparti = (KrF)

Politikens ATS (At t{\e}nke sig) skriver bl.a.:

Niels Halvveg Petersen overtager posten som udenkrigsminister en af de
n{\e}rmeste dage. F{\o}rst skal Uffe Farvellermann-Jensen dog gasses
ud af ministeriet, hvor han har forskanset sig i sit formandsskab.

Jannnnnnn Sjursen blev efter sigende helt elektrisk, da Poul Nykup
udn{\e}vnte ham til energiminister.

Ny minister for h{\o}je skatter og ulovlige afgifter blev som ventet
Ole Staveplade, mens Helge Mortensen fik posten som tragikminister
p{\a} grund af sin ydre lighed med den popul{\e}re Ikajkast.

Ole Lennert
(zaphod@diku.dk)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jcohen@sco.COM (Jon Cohen)
Subject: "YOU CAN TELL A SWEDE..."
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:20:52 GMT
Followup-To: e-mail
Keywords: bumper sticker



Hello,

I have seen a bumpersticker that says,
"YOU CAN TELL A SWEDE, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL HIM MUCH."

Would anyone know how I could obtain one of these
bumperstickers as a gift for my Swedish friend, who
 would enjoy it.

Jon
From: joca@mtek.chalmers.se (Jonas Carlsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:13:11 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, School of Mechanical Engineering

Jarmo Ryyti writes:
>: Reich)!  Carelia - Finlandia irredenta!  (Do you wear black or brown shirts?)
>: _
>
>The karelians are the palestinians of Scandinavia. Very little known
>problem but however it is existing.

You still didn't tell us the colour of your shirt!
/C
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bryan Stack)
Subject: Archeology - anecdote
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:54:40 GMT

An inquiry about archeology and the law sparked a memory of a comment
made by a farmer in West Jutland, Denmark, about 15 years ago.  There
was a TV show about recent Viking-era discoveries, and there was a shot
of some people do an excavation at Lindholm Hoeje near Aalborg.  This
no-nonsense bondemand watched it for awhile and said, "Ae voksen maj ka 
da int vaere bekendt aa skraue i jorn mae ae ske lissom ae lille barn."
(A grown man ought to be ashamed of himself for digging in the dirt with
spoon like a little kid.)

Forgive my transcription of his accent; my memory of his pronunciation
is probably not quite right, and it may not be the best way to represent
it.  But you get the idea, I hope.

Bryan Stack
From: eivindt@colargol.edb.tih.no (Eivind Tagseth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:01:47 GMT
Organization: Colargol, Trondheim College of Engineering
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Jan Arne Fagertun (jafitv@termo.unit.no) wrote:


: Could you please tell the world (or us norwegians) what's so special
: with the whales - what makes it worse to kill a whale than for instance
: a bull or a reindeer ?

Didn't you know?
The whales are just as smart as Einstein - or even smarter.
Besides, there is only 1 single whale left here on earth.

Eivind Tagseth
Norway
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:34:44 GMT

Goran Svensson (d9goran@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: 
: I do hope that your finnish is better than your english...
: 
:                            //G|ran

So there is going on a  contest who knows best english?
I did not know that this news-group is for that. Sorry.
Which is your ppositon in the contest?
jr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 08:45:27 GMT

In article <C15xpo.4yt@cs.vu.nl>, rhtfest@cs.vu.nl (Festen RHT) writes:
|>
|>   The question is ofcourse how important whale-lives are.
|> Considering what you wrote, I guess you don't care that much about
|> them? 
|> 
--


Could you please tell the world (or us norwegians) what's so special
with the whales - what makes it worse to kill a whale than for instance
a bull or a reindeer ?


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Mickey mouse and Donald Duck
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:30:17 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

v106lr4h@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric T Sasse) writes:

>  Now a Winnie the Pooh fest I could handle. :)

You mean 'Nalle Puh' (in swedish) , our all time favourite
philosopher? :)

-Henrik Jonsson
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:45:21 EST
From: <2971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Blonde Jokes

No doubt:  they are sexist, racist, etc.  Bad, bad stuff, but oh so funny.
I can only imagine why they're not popular in Scandinavia..

Well, I've made it a hobby to collect them.  -Got a few pretty good ones.
They're all in my computer, so I could trade you..?

If you have any ?  Doesn't matter how old or lame you think they are:
Please mail me (-Don't always read this group).

To show some good spirit and demonstrate that the joking can go both ways, here
is one:
         "Why are all the blonde-jokes one-liners ?"
         "-So men can understand them !"

Cheerio,
gp
From: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: 24 Jan 93 10:53:02 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>So there is going on a  contest who knows best english?
>I did not know that this news-group is for that. Sorry.
>Which is your ppositon in the contest?

This is a joke , right?

-Henrik Jonsson  d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:22:23 EST
From: <PDA101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Metric again... (Was: 8-bit news (was Re: Commodore keyboard ...))
 <1993Jan14.012319.14658@newstand.syr.edu> <1993Jan17.023241.4364@eecs.nwu.edu>
 <2656@cix.cict.fr> <TOMBRE.93Jan19104750@myrtille.loria.fr>

In article <TOMBRE.93Jan19104750@myrtille.loria.fr>, tombre@loria.fr (Karl
Tombre) says:
>Non il existe (depuis peu je crois) un symbole designant le franc
>francais. C'est une espece de F barre si je me souviens bien. Mais je
>ne l'ai pas encore vu fleurir sur toutes sortes de documents.
>Peut-etre est-il trop recent, ou peut-etre la sauce ne prend pas...
>
>--
  ouais, si je me souviens bien, c'est une idee de Ballamou 1er.
Rien d'etonnant d'ailleurs, il devait s'imaginer que faire ressembler
le symbole du franc de celui du dollar nous sortirait du marasme
economique...

  Mes 0.2 ecus de mauvaise foi,
   Paul

 P.S Karl, Y neige a Nancy, en ce moment?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:01:31 GMT

Beke (riiali@lut.fi) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan21.182522.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:
: 
: ..<some lines deleted>..
: 
:    Right, there is no logical necessity to hold forever the existing
:    treaties! But in Finland's case, it's prudent politics. In this
:    respect I think that peace, freedom and prosperity are more important
:    values than justice. Returning Karelia to Finland might be just, but
:    it is not accepted by the Russian government. And IF it was accepted,
:    the majority population in Karelia, Russians, would pose us some problems 
:    (And the creation of infrastructure and things like that). It would be
:    a mess.

Like Palestine.

Besides here is a super-power the one which holds the areas. With the
same argument we should demand the palestinians not fooling around
and take an example of the karelians.
jr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: rhtfest@cs.vu.nl (Festen RHT)
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:49:05 GMT

eivindt@colargol.edb.tih.no (Eivind Tagseth) writes:
:     [..] there is only 1 single whale left here on earth.

?? Ahm, all others are married?

Wasn't there a movie called something like: "Single white free whale"
about a single whale inviting a human on earth who turns out to
be mentally challenged, doing all sorts of nasty things to the
whale? But it could be that I'm mixing up things...

:-)

I'm sorry: it's one of my worse days today. See it as self-therapy.
-- 
~~~~~~~~RHT Festen, Amsterdam, The Netherlands~~~~~~~~~rhtfest@cs.vu.nl~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: larsent@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LARSEN  TORE HOIVAAG)
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:20:18 GMT

rhtfest@cs.vu.nl (Festen RHT) writes:

>espen@coli.uni-sb.de (Espen J. Vestre) writes:
>:   Regardless of what one might think of whale hunting, it's obviously not
>: a Good Cause Worth Fighting For.  Right, there are the whalers.  But they
>: are very few in number [..]

>So are the whales...   :-) / :-(

 I think we had 14 boats hunting 110 spermwhale which is hardly much when
 you consider the population of 900000+ of this specie. Even the f**king
 Greenpeace couldn't find the whalers. Why don't they go out and fight
 the real threat to our environment?
 
 PS! I hunt, I respect that which I kill and I eat all which I kill.
    
 PS! Did anyone see the reports of German animal transports in EEC?
     That makes me sick!!!

 from Northern Norway :-)
 Tore


>-- 
>~~~~~~~~RHT Festen, Amsterdam, The Netherlands~~~~~~~~~rhtfest@cs.vu.nl~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: janeric@control.lth.se (Jan Eric Larsson)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Originator: janeric@bellman
Organization: Dept. Automatic Control, Lund Inst. of Technology, Sweden
	<sedergre.29@valt.Helsinki.FI>
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:24:46


Jari Sedergren writes:

>In this world there are many places which have been occupied many
>times by different powers. Sortavala is one of those places. People
>living now in Sortavala cannot be accused about what happened in II
>World War. In that war 1941-1944 Finland fought with fascist Germany
>against SU. Finland changed side only after losing the war! So Russian
>claims of that area are unfortunately justified (this time by war),
>too.

Well, I don't think it is so simple. The Soviet Union doesn't exist
anymore, (at least not formally), and the Russian Parliament has
declared that everything that happened internationally during the time
of Stalin was illegal.

Of course it is hard to tell what this means, and what the practical
consequences will be, but at least it isn't obvious that all peace
treatises based on the World War II must stand forever.


Jan Eric Larsson                  JanEric@Control.LTH.Se      +46 46 108795
Department of Automatic Control
Lund Institute of Technology     "We watched the thermocouples dance to the
Box 118, S-221 00 LUND, Sweden    spirited tunes of a high frequency band."


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kfa@atomi.hut.fi (Kim Fallstrom)
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinns are worried about their language
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:47:55

>>Swedish governement that there is 320 000 Finnish speaking people living
                                   ^^^^^^^^^
>>in Sweden and a half a million Finns immigrated to Sweden during the latest im
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>migration wave. 

>Your figures looks quite strange, Jarmo.
>may I ask what happened to the 180 000 others...
>
>Oh I forgot... We'd probably gas 'em to death in our
>secret concentration camps, right?
>
>- Henrik Jonsson , d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se
>
>Hej MB!!

That was an easy one.
The 180 000 other Finns probably learned to speak Swedish. Some of the
Finns do really learn Swedish in Sweden. The most do not, or so it seems.

Kim Fallstr|m, kfa@atomi.hut.fi
--
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: bjornmu@idt.unit.no (Bj|rn P. Munch)
Subject: Re: Whales vs. pigs part x
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:14:10 GMT

In article <m0nF1fr-000R08C@aton.abo.fi>, skronkvi@aton.abo.fi (Stefan Kronkvist INF) writes:
|> 
|> Fridrik Skulason frisk@complex.is writes
|> 
|> >Well, what would make the average whale-life more important than, say...the
|> >average pig life ?
|> 
|> Well,if there were as few pigs left as there are whales I guess the pig
|> would also be protected. 
|> 
|> On the other hand,if there were as many whales as there are pigs,i guess it 
|> would be ok to hunt them too.

Not quite as many, but 85-100 000 is a quite substantial number, I
would say.

BTW, that is in the north hempsphere (Atlantic); in the south, the
number of mink whales is estimated at ~750 000.

|> If you let the whales recover a couple of years there may become enough of
|> them to allow some hunting,but if you kill them all now you wont have 
|> anything to hunt tomorrow.

That's the typical ignorance...  Nobody is going to "kill all the
whales", and they have had many years to grow in numbers.  We can
safely hunt 1000 or even 2000 mink whales per year without decreasing
the stock.

---
Bj|rn P. Munch               | Dept. of Comp. Science & Telematics,
Bjoern.P.Munch@idt.unit.no   | Norwegian Institute of Technology (NTH),
PhD Student                  | N-7034 Trondheim, Norway
Univeristy of Trondheim      | Fingerable addr:  bjornmu@multe.idt.unit.no
From: hmj@cs.tut.fi (J{rvinen Hannu-Matti)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish inferiority complex? (Was: Karelians...)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:35:38 GMT
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kuukkeli.cs.tut.fi

In article <1993Jan22.060805.8468@cs.joensuu.fi> hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen) writes:
>hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:
>>On the other hand, I 
>>know of no Finn (of either linguistic persuasion) who feels inferior to a 
>>Russian!  What's going on here?  

>One Finn is better than ten Russians. Every Finn knows that.

The general rule among all western countries: If they live east or
south to us, we are better than them. Most Russian live east AND
south to Finns, so ... :-)
-- 
-----
Hannu-Matti Jarvinen, hmj@cs.tut.fi
Opinions of tut != opinions of mine, and vice versa.
TTKK on samaa mielt{ kanssani siit{, ett{ en edusta sen mielipidett{.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic