HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GRUNLOH@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: FAQ ABOUT ULTRALIGHTS
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:25:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: vmd.16880AEA7.GRUNLOH
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <1bem9vINNkan@topaz.bds.com>
ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie) writes:
 
>
>>  No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within an airport traffic
>> area, control zone, terminal control area, or positive control area
>                                                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> unless that person has prior authorization from the air traffic control
>> facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
>
>Zow!  Lets fit an oxygen bottle on this thing and take it up to 18,000.
>I better put on my long underwear.
>
>-Ron
 
 
...... Yes it's true.  You could take an ultralight up to 18,000 under
the proper conditions and a number of pilots have done it.  I don't know
the actual record but it has been reported in past issues of the
ultralight magazines.  Usually someone is out to set a record, notifies
the local FAA folks, has a chase plane, recording barometer and all that
other good stuff..... and the best snowmobile suit money can buy.
Oxygen of course!
 
...... One summer weekend our ultralight club president decided he would
take his machine up to 10,000 just so he could say he had done it once.
He called the local airport tower just to let them know what was going
to happen. (We were outside the ATA).  They know him on a personal basis
because he calls them frequently.  His private airstrip is within the ATA
and he calls on the phone each time he takes off to get permission to
leave the area on a set course at 200 AGL or so.  Anyway......
There were a dozen people standing around when he took off and no one
thought to remind him it's cold up there.  I guess he thought he would
only be there for a short time.  He had light gloves and a jacket.
 
...... After a long climb up and a long glide back down he landed and
was noticably BLUE.  His digital watch had stopped and his 35MM SLR
camera had refused to operate while he was up there.  It took him
several hours to get warmed up again.  Also later he had to put new
rings in his engine because of the long sustained climb.
 
.....  I went up to 6000 AGL once just for the experience.  It was
very boring.  I was nervous though and always looking for other aircraft
that might not see me.  Obviously you can't make out much of anything on
the ground and there is no sensation of motion.  You can have a lot more
fun in an ultralight at LOW altitude on a calm summer evening.
 
.....  It's interesting to note that many of the modern ultralights have
such ample climb performance and good glide and sink rate, that it can take
longer to get back down than it takes to get up there.  I usually cut the
throttle and crank in a steep 360 in the hopes I will get back down where
it's warm even sooner.  Change directions every 10 turns or so to avoid
getting dizzy.
 
..... The ultimate maximum altitude you could achieve in an ultralight
is limited by the permitted fuel capacity ( 5 gal in the USA )
 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol)
Subject: Re: Cherokee: actual vs. POH
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:28:11 GMT

skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.120813.14527@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> psv2b@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Peter S. Vines) writes:
>>A group of pilots I regularly fly with are considering purchasing
>>a Cherokee 180 (mid 70's).  I would like information from other 180
>>pilots concerning the operating costs.  What is the fuel burn, are parts
>>hard to find, are there particular years or models which should be 
>>avoided?

I am in a club which used to have 2 180C's.  One of the things to 
watch out for is that some time in their life cycle Piper stretched
the fuselage 6 inches.  Before that happened it was really easy
to go out of cg envelope to the front if you put two husky people
in it.

As I recall AOPA Pilot Magazine did a feature story on 180's in the
last few years.
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: aviation companies
Keywords: aviation companies
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:12:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Oct7.151209.23088
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <hrose.718401218@play> hrose@psych.mun.ca (Herbert Rose) writes:
>
>  I am looking for a list of aviation companies and their addresses; 
>  ie places that build and design aircraft.  Either individual company
>  addresses or the name of a published list would be appreciated.

What you want is the "World Aviation Directory".  It comes out every year
and is a comprehensive directory of all companies that do almost anything
concerning aviation, or aviation related products.  It comes in 2 volumes,
the "White" pages which is about 1700 pages divided into sections like
"US Major Air Carriers", "Insurance", "Computer Hardware/Systems/Software"
and more.  Then there's the "Yellow" page which is called the World Buyer's
Guide.  Alphabetic listing of all companies by product type.  Headsets, 
Fairings, Tires, Engines and such...

Published by Business Publications Division - Murdoch Magazines
	     News America Publishing
	     One Park Avenue
	     New York, NY 10016
	     212-503-5900

BTW - I suspect this is a fairly expen$ive directory - you might try
to talk a friendly FBO or other aviation related company out of
their copy from the previous year.


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: davis@realtime.ab.ca (Glenn Davis)
Subject: Pilot Directory (any interest?)
Organization: Real Time Consulting Ltd.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:29:06 GMT

Hi, 
   Just a thought.  Is there any interest in a directory service (or file
there-of available via FTP) of licensed pilots on USENET?  Of course this 
may be a FAQ, but I have not seen a query of this type in this newsgroup.

Glenn
P362835 (Canada)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.military
From: hards4@evans.ee.adfa.oz.au (Brad Hards)
Subject: Re: Transport crash in Amsterdamn
Organization: University College UNSW ADFA Australia
	<1992Oct6.014943.7359@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Oct6.125416.404@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:00:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.125416.404@ghost.dsi.unimi.it> cotrozzi@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (Massimo Cotrozzi) writes:

   Hi, I heard that about 250 people died for the crash ....
   that's horrible ! and what's worse tjhey don't know what happened...
   My father is an air traffic controller here in Milan and with some
   friends at work and some pilots tried to explain me what could be happened:
   It's highly probable that the plane had two engines broken * on the same side *
   ( you will not find another case like this in another billion cases )
The facts get lost again. There was loss of both engines on the starboard
side, (known as a double asymmetric), which caught fire, then detached from
the wing mountings. There was an almost identical case in Taiwan about ten
months ago, on the same type of aircraft (747-200 cargo version with P&W
engines) that also had both engines on the starboard side detach. It was
also unable to turn left, just as the El Al 747 was unable to.
Suspected cause was failure of retaining pins on the engine mount.

   then the pilot tried to fly back to the airport and tried to empty the tanks;
   due to very bad wheather conditions the fuel didn't fall on the ground so rapidly
   on the second turn over the place where they left the fuel the aeroplane flew into
   the cloud of fuel and exploded  because of the two engines that were burning ..
   I really hope it was just an accident and it was not intentional...
It didn't explode until hitting the buildings. 

BTW Double asymetric loss of engines is so rare and so deadly, that
manufacturers recommend that it only be done in a simulator. RAAF recently
lost a 707 practicing this emergency procedure.

---
Brad Hards     EE4 - Australian Defence Force Academy      hards4@ee.adfa.oz.au
             "If it is stupid, and it works, it isn't stupid"
Disclaimer: If any of the above agrees with the opinions of ADFA or the RAAF,
	it is purely coincidental. 






Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Ultralite Flight Rules? 
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 01:17:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.214303.7973@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>What are the rules for ultralites?

For a complete list, get a copy of Federal Aviation Regulations part 103.

>Is there a ceiling limit?  (like 1000 AGL)

Under most conditions, 18,000 feet (if you are in a place where you can
legally fly at all).

>Can you fly to your friend's place in the country 100 miles away? (in between
>mostly private properties and public roads) 

Yes ... and you can ride a moped the same distance (but it isn't fun or 
reliable).  

>How do they do against weather like rain or snow?

They run pretty well in snow and rain, but the pilot gets quite cold and wet.

>Do you get a ticket if you land (emergency of course) on the interstate?

Probably not, but you might get run over or fried when you hit the powerlines
that you didn't see before it was too late.  You also will probably have to
*prove* that it was an emergency.  Interstates are low on the list of
choices when you have to make an emergency landing.



Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: Unfamiliar phraseologies
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 22:52:06 GMT

> [ Various people debate whether it's "United four seventeen" or
>   "United four one seven" ]

C'mon, guys, it's in the AIM.  I don't have one here or I'd give the
reference and exact text, but the AIM tells you how to say just about
every kind of number or phrase you might ever need to say.

I suspect it says "four one seven", but as I said I don't have it here.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: psv2b@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Peter S. Vines)
Subject: Cherokee: actual vs. POH
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:08:13 GMT

A group of pilots I regularly fly with are considering purchasing
a Cherokee 180 (mid 70's).  I would like information from other 180
pilots concerning the operating costs.  What is the fuel burn, are parts
hard to find, are there particular years or models which should be 
avoided?
Thanks for any assistance,


--
- Peter Vines : vines@virginia.edu : (804) 924-4644 : University of Virginia
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: inverted engine/fuel
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:09:12 GMT
Organization: Chevron


What exactly is an inverted fuel system or engine?

I can see why you would not want to fly a float based carb
upside down for too long, sure the carb in an inverted
system is not a float carb mounted upside down? :-)


-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 
Conserve water, California's deserts need more cotton farms.
Barbie says, Take quaaludes in gin and go to a disco right away!
 But Ken says, WOO-WOO!!  No credit at ``Mr. Liquor''!!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Subject: Kissimmee Warbird Fly-In
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
Distribution:  world
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:59:36 GMT

     Does anybody know if there is going to be a warbird fly-in/
airshow this year at Riley's in Kissimmee, FL. This has taken
place on the weekend between Christmas and New Year's eve for 
at least the last two years that I have attended. I do not see
it advertised in my Sport Aviation and wonder if it has been 
cancelled. If anybody has any information please post it or 
e-mail me.

Thanks,
Howard Petri
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Where are the chopper x-countries?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:42:56 GMT

From article <kaufman.718752330@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>, by kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman):
> Helicopters (of the piston powered civilian type) generally fly only in
> clear VFR at altitudes between 700 and 2000 feet.  Top speeds are in the
> 105 knot range, with 2 hours of fuel.  This makes long x-country trip
> impractical except for ferry flights.  Besides, even the smallest heli costs
> about $100/hr to operate, so there aren't many ab initio students doing
> their cross country flights in them.

Okie, I asked someone on this net last time how to transport a small
private chopper across the US.  His answer was why don't you fly it.
My thinking was the same as yours -- WHAT?  It cost a zillion dollars
to make the trip flying.  So how do you do it? 

What do you think of that kit chopper Exec 90?  I saw some where it
is $50,000.  Could that be true?  Does it really cost $100 per hour to
operate a chopper like Exec 90?  How last will the thing last if I 
operate it 3 hours per weekday?  (you know what I wanna do)  Oh, Exec 90
has about the same spec you mentioned (100mph, 2 hour fuel 17 gal.)
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: New Changes to FARs/AIM (LONG)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 18:01:07 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> Paragraph a.(7). now has a bold-face addition, "AIR TRAFFIC
> CONTROLLERS ARE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN FROM THE PILOT A READBACK OF
> ALL RUNWAY HOLD SHORT INSTRUCTIONS."  [I wonder where this came
> from? :-( ]

This caveat has been on the airport diagrams in the NOS books too.  It
also comes with a crossing caveat (which is amusing at Dulles, as if you
cross a Runway, you'll find your self taxiing in the weeds).

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: CHARTER: rec.aviation.misc
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Reply-To: geoff@peck.com
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:23:13 GMT

Welcome to rec.aviation.misc.  This message, and companion messages
like it, will be posted to each of the new rec.aviation.* groups weekly
through the end of November, to allow people to view the charters of each
newsgroup and better understand where to post articles.

The charter of rec.aviation.misc is:

******************************************************************************
*   In case there are things which didn't get "caught" by the other groups,  *
*   rec.aviation.misc provides a home for these other topics.  An example    *
*   would be posts on commercial airliners and ultralights which, for the    *
*   moment, do not have their own home.                                      *
******************************************************************************

There are now a thirteen separate subgroups on rec.aviation; if the charter
above doesn't match the content of the article you're posting (or you're
following up), please consider one of the other groups as a more
appropriate forum:

    announce (MOD)    military      piloting        soaring
    answers  (MOD)    misc          products        stories (MOD)
    homebuilt         owning        simulators      student
    ifr 

A common question is "what should I do if an article spans the charters of
two or more groups?"  The answer is cross-posting.  If you have an article
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If you are replying to a cross-posted article and your reply is germane to
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Use cross-posting sparingly.  If an article "90% belongs" in one group and
"10% belongs" in another, post it only to the first group.

						Geoff
From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Where are the chopper x-countries?
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:35:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Sean Foderaro (jkf@Franz.COM) wrote:
: to check the weather on this next leg.   This issue was brought to 
: mind by the person who asked how you get helicopters from, say, the 
: east to west coast.   If they are flown cross country then maybe they 
: only come out at night :-).

   About two weeks ago I was driving along the highway and passed a small
helicopter that was being trailered.  It was on one of those 5th wheel
on a pickup truck type of trailer.  The chopper and the truck both had
the name of some power line maintenance company on it.  Obviously the
guys who fly them for a living trailer them from point to point.
   I saw an interesting article in the paper about a maintenance company that
does powerline work by hovering a helicopter next to the lines while one of
their guys sits on an external platform and works.  Looked damned nuts to me 
(they had a picture).

--

*******************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck                                          ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu *
* DoD #496  Bikes past and present: CB175, CB550F, Norton 750, CB350F, XV535  *
*******************************************************************************
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: FAQ ABOUT ULTRALIGHTS
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:46:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1687EBDBB.GRUNLOH@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, GRUNLOH@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
> -------------------------------
> Question -2- Are there any regulations on these things?
>  
> Yes!
>  
> 4. No flying in controlled airspace (major airports) without explicit
>    permission from Air Traffic Control (unlikely).
>  
> should actually read:
>  
> 4. No flying in any Airport Traffic Area or Control Zone without
>    explicit permission from the controlling agency.
> ---------------------------------
>  
> This usually means no flying within 5 miles of a control tower
> and you must stay below (usually) 2000 MSL within 10 miles.
> In any case, no flying anywhere inside the inverted wedding
> cake that sits on top of every operating control tower.
> Incidently, I suggest all ultralights stay below 2000 MSL at
> least 15 miles out in the above example.  I have often seen
> commercial airliners at the bottom of the layer they intend
> to enter while still well outside the ATA.
> ---------------------------------------------------------

Actually, this isn't quite correct either.  I'll follow up with Dan via 
e-mail.  Expect a final version shortly...
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: iguana@mik.uky.edu (Paul Thompson)
Subject: EAA
Followup-To: poster
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:09:08 GMT

Just wondering if anyone here was a member of the Experimental Aviation
Association.

Please email me if you belong to the EAA.
I will discuss further plans through email.

Paul Thompson         iguana@mik.uky.edu   (NeXT Mail)
From: johnmay@cs.ucsd.edu (John May)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Anybody read "The Unfriendly Skies"?
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:54:13 GMT
Distribution: na

I picked up a book from the library the other day called
_The Unfriendly Skies:  An Aviation Watergate_ by
Rodney Stick (not to be confused with _Unfriendly Skies_
by "Captain X").  The book was published in 1978, and
Stich, a former airline captain and former inspector
for the FAA, makes some serious claims about the safety
programs at United (20 years ago) and the complicity
of the FAA in not enforcing its own rules.  What I'd like
to know is whether anyone has heard of this book and if
the charges were ever investigated.

Stich describes numerous occasions when he was checking
United pilots and observed unsafe techniques and poor
training, sometimes leading directly to accidents or
close calls.  (Again, this was 20 to 30 years ago.)  He
claims that when he wrote them up, his FAA bosses did
nothing and generally behaved as if they were in the
pockets of United and other airlines.  He goes on to
describe how the FAA finally forced him to quit after
he kept filing these reports.  He describes trying to
bring his story to the public through various legal and
journalistic channels, only to be defeated at every
turn.  He finally paid to have this book printed by a
vanity publisher.

Now, I tend to be extremely suspicious of conspiracy
theories, and there's a bit too much of "they won't let
my story out because it will damage the powerful airlines,"
with "they" being at various times the FAA, the courts, and
the press.  Nevertheless, the specific claims he makes
appear to be serious and easy to verify for, say,
a journalist who wanted to follow up with an expose'.  I
looked in the Readers Guides for late '70s and found no
apparent mention of this book.  Does anybody recall it?
I'd be interested to know if this book made any kind of
splash, if it was refuted, or if it went unnoticed.
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Ultralite Flight Rules?
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:43:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

What are the rules for ultralites?
Is there a ceiling limit?  (like 1000 AGL)
Can you fly to your friend's place in the country 100 miles away? (in between
mostly private properties and public roads) 
How do they do against weather like rain or snow?
Do you get a ticket if you land (emergency of course) on the interstate?