HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Retraction, regarding Karl Malone
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:13:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <3742@cvbnetPrime.COM>, tgross@bingo.prime.com (/tom) writes:
> > Who was the best big forward?
> > -- 
> 	Answer: DAVE COWENS.
> 

	Dave Cowens would have made a great PF. But he played Center his
entire career. 

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Retraction, regarding Karl Malone
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:06:16 GMT

claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>A few weeks ago, I tossed off an incidental remark about
>how the two Jazz Olympians are "marginal Hall-of-Famers".
>Various people called me to task.  On further reflection,
>I've decided it *was* a mistake:  I can't think of a
>power forward appreciably better than Karl Malone (McHale?
>not Debusschere (sp?).  Lucas?  Pettit?  One suspects that
>Bird, Erving, McGinnis, McAdoo, and E. Johnson *could* have
>been better, but they played other roles).  Go ahead,
>r.s.b.p netters: we've hashed over who were the best centers,
>scorers, Ainge-biters, and so on.  Who was the best big
>forward?
>-- 

	One would have to give some credit to Maurice Lucas, one of
	the hubs of the 1977 Trailblazer championship team, and always
	known well as the "enforcer".  Truck Robinson had some great
	years in the pros.  Buck Williams has always been considered one
	of the greats at the position.  However, compared to the Mailman,
	these guys wouldn't rate too high, I supposed.

	Jazzy J
>Cameron Laird
>claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
>claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andy@misha.central.sun.com (Andy Knipp Metro SE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Pippen's Renegotiated Contract (from DT vs
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:42:22 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: andy@misha.central.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: misha.central.sun.com

In article 29403@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca, cs4cb3@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Peter Granic) writes:
>
>In earlier threads called Kukoc vs. DT (or vice versa), I discussed the
>options the Bulls had in renegotiating Pippen's contract during the 
>Toni Kukoc negotiations.

>
>Would Deal Have Spoiled McGwire?
>	The last two years, Mark McGwire and his agent asked for a multi-year
>contract and didn't get it from Oakland general manager Sandy Alderson.  Now
>he's eligible for free agency at the end of the season, and there's no
>guarantee he'll stick with the A's. 

Which is why the A's should have given him a new contract.  They will
have a tough time signing him now & it will be for a much higher price than
it would have been last year.

>"He's having a great year," Alderson admits.  "But would he have had a great
>year with a multi-year contract?  Maybe.  Maybe not."

True.  Pippen did have a great year after signing a new deal.  You can also wonder 
if McGwire "sulking" because he did not get a new contract had anything
to do with a poor (for him)  year last year.  That has been know to happen.

---
Andy Knipp  SE                |
Sun Microsystems              | The secret of success is sincerity,
Schaumburg, IL                | once you can fake that,  you have it made.
andy@sunbird.central.sun.com  |
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:02:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug18.191136.40466@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.150120.24198@bmerh85.bnr.ca> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.145810.23996@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>Just as a reminder.  In many areas, committing forgery of a person's mail
>identity in such a manner is often considered an offense similar to mail 
>forgery.  If you dislike the conversations between Ed and myself, kill files
>work well, so does skipping the articles.  Committing forgery of this sort
>is not taken highly and I would suggest the stoppage, or at least a better
>attempt at it.  
Lighten up, Meek. What would you do had that guy not followed your suggestion
of stoppage? Are you going to threaten him that you would notify his 
postmaster again? 

You know, if you use this postmaster threat a couple more times, you will
really scare people.  You don't want that, do you?

>When you forge the address from the mail header, don't forget
>that the audit trail for replies points back to you, Mr. "bmerh85.bnr.ca"...
Just a reminder, Meek, at least have some common sense of usenet by checking
out his path name.
Path: .....!bnrgate!bmerh85!bnr.ca!stu1d46

The message ID doesn't reveal his login name, just his host name. Calling
him Mr. "bmerh85.bnr.ca" is just like calling you Mr. "uvmark.uucp".

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: The All "Home-State" Team?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:35:21 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.213402.11261@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin) writes:
>markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>
>>(hell, Chicago for that matter) or NY wouldn't beat it...
>
>After about 10 minutes I came up with the following for Chicago/Chicagoland:
>
>     Chicago                           Chicagoland
>PG   I. Thomas (HS at Westchester St. Joe)
>     T. Hardaway
>
>2G   H. Hawkins                        K. Gill (Rich Central)
>     N. Anderson                       C. Hodges (Rich East or Rich South)
>
>SF   M. Aguire
>     M. Liberty
>
>PF   T. Cummings
>     K. Norman
>
>C                                      K. Duckworth (Thornridge)

					D. Corzine (Hersey)

Add on Maurice Cheeks (DuSable), Ron Anderson (Bowen)
Eddie Johnson (Westinghouse), Darrell Walker (Corliss)
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: adam@research.nj.nec.com (Adam Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. DT
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:04:40 GMT
Reply-To: adam@research.nj.nec.com
Organization: NEC Research Institute
Originator: adam@acapella


In article <362.41.uupcb@smurfbbs.uucp>, troy.beck@smurfbbs.uucp (Troy Beck)  writes:
|> Just to get something straight, DA BULLS, If ever such a game could be
|> lined up, would totally kill the dream team. Face it, the DT hasn't
|> played together that long, and they don't have their rythm and the feel
|> down, etc. Just about any team (With execption of lousy ones) could beat
|> the dream team. Not just the Bulls.
|> 

Get lost.  It doesn't even make sense to talk about this.  How would
the Bulls do against the DT (or most other NBA teams) without Jordan
and Pippen?  What would you do, have Jordan/Pippen each play 1 half
for each side?  

Anyway, the Bulls nucleus has been together for a few years now.  Give
the Dream Team ONE season together to play and practice, and they'd
demolish anyone.  Even without Jordan and Pippen.  And they probably
wouldn't need a whole season, just a coupla months.

-- 
--								-Adam
=====================================================================
Adam Porter:Assistant SysAdmin, NEC Research Institute (609) 951-2568
4 Independence Way  Princeton,NJ 08540       adam@research.nj.nec.com
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ALL STATE OF MICHIGAN TEAM!!!!
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:47:44 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <vad-k0-@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>Dan Marjele (NBA All-Star)		       6'8 PF
>Glen Rice (Star of NBA Play-off team....will be All-Star next year)6'9 SF
>Derek Coleman (Solid Center in NBA)		6'10 C
>
>What does everyone else think?


I think for one thing you're a bit off on your heights. majerle is 6'6",
Rice is maybe 6'7" and Coleman is a 6'9" PF, not a center and doesn't
play center for the Nets, Bowie and Dudley do.

Also, whoever posted the original list for michigan had Anthony Peeler
on it but he's from Kansas City(either Mo. or kansas I don't remember).
Not all Missouri's great players were bought out of Detroit (-:.

>


Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
If the soda's you're selling are "ice cold", how come they're not frozen
solid?  
                   A friend of mine to a startled vendor at an A's game
******************************************************************************




>
>
From: m1wcc00@fed.frb.gov (Wayne C. Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Debunking the standard myth was Re: Couple of thoughts..
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:25:15 GMT
	<8dZk03zS56LA00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>
	<XJAM.92Aug10093628@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
Organization: Federal Reserve Board
In-reply-to: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU's message of 10 Aug 92 08:36:28 GMT

In article <XJAM.92Aug10093628@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU> xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer) writes:


   >>>>> "Ronnie" == Ronnie Townsend <ronnie@uts.amdahl.com> writes:
	   [semi-rational stuff deleted]
     Ronnie>  At the risk of sounding racist, the one overriding
     Ronnie> problem facing the rest of the world teams is a glaring lack of brothers! 
     Ronnie> Let's face it, if 90% of the best players in the NBA  and the world are black
     Ronnie> then it stands to reason that countries where there aint no brothers are gonna
     Ronnie> have a hard time playing to the NBA level. The one saving grace would be to 
     Ronnie> get a franchise in the NBA so that even though a Russia or a Croatia might not
     Ronnie> have top to bottom NBA talent, they would be able to fare well against the 
     Ronnie> future Dream teams based on better teamwork and cohesive play.  You guys can
     Ronnie> flame for stating the obvious with regard to the racial makeup of the NBA but 
     Ronnie> it's just an undeniable fact. We can speculate till the cows come how as to 
     Ronnie> why it is that American brothers are such good hoop players but none but the 
     Ronnie> clinically insane can deny that reality. 

Xjammer:
   No need to speculate you moron. The reason African-Americans fare well in
   basketball is because African-American culture values skill in the sport
   and there is a resultant peer pressure to play and play seriously beginning
   at a very early age. 
 [rest deleted] 

Me: Say what you will about cultural and peer pressures - they're valid, just not the
    biggest reason for black dominance.  Basketball requires many abilities.  All of them
    can be improved upon except for jumping ability, and quickness.  Blacks can jump higher
    than whites. Period.  They're also quicker.  Period.  You can cite examples of Majerle
    and Chapman and maybe some others but they're not the norm.  High skying blacks are the
    norm in the NBA, NCAA, and even high school.  There is something genetic here.  Why can't
    it be swallowed and accepted?
Wayne. 

So as not to end up like poor old Jimmy the Greek, please understand that this is my opinion
only and not that of my employer.
From: escheele@us.oracle.com ("Erik Scheele")
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ALL CLUMSY/ ALL SHOWTIME TEAM (1991-92)
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:32:36 GMT


wrum1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Walter Albert Rumsby) writes:

>err...excuse me, but Drexler can't actually dribble. My understanding is that
>he has to look at the ball when he dribbles, which means he doesn't really
>dribble - you can hardly say he has EXCELLENT dribbling skills. 

Maybe his dribbling form is not aesthetically pleasing (I cringe when I see
someone staring at the ball as he dribbles), but Clyde can flat-out MOTOR down
the floor with the ball.  And, many times, he has dribbled (with his head down)
into traffic and made an excellent feed to someone for an easy basket, leaving
me saying to myself, "How did he SEE that guy with his head down like that?"  I
guess the beauty of it all is that you don't expect him to have such good court
vision (neither do his opponents in many cases).  Perhaps a better description
would be excellent BALLHANDLING skills (a combination of dribbling and
passing)?

>Then what about his running.....

I don't know.  He seems to run just fine when he isn't wearing two left
shoes...  :-)
                                                                      
*******************************************************************************
Erik Scheele		"If you start out depressed, everything's a pleasant
Oracle Corporation		surprise."
Redwood Shores, CA			     -- Lloyd Dobler, "Say Anything"
escheele@us.oracle.com
********* Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not for Oracle Corporation. *********
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: Thoughts....Random, yet interesting
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:39:59 GMT

In article <Bt4y15.47p@news.cso.uiuc.edu> sbulmahn@yoyodyne.ncsa.uiuc.edu (scooter) writes:
>1.  Everyone is talking about how the Knicks have all these tough "bangers"
>	and I've heard many suggestions that other teams should try to compete
>	by "picking up bangers."  Wait...  As it occurs to me, the Knicks didnt 
>	even pick up any bangers.  All they did was hire a weightlifting coach
>	at the beginning of last year.  I saw stats a while ago that listed the
>	% body fat change, and muscle weight gain for Oak, Ewing, X-Man.
>	Just incredible stuff -- all gained 20+ pounds, and lost several % body
>	fat (naturally).
>
>	So why dont other teams do this??  Instead of people telling the Bulls
>	to get some serious bangers, how about convince Scottie Williams, 
>	King, and Cliff do what the Knicks did.  Or, for that matter, why dont
>	a BUNCH of other teams do this???
>	Hmmm.... This all just seems too obvious (must be something wrong...)
			.
			.
			.
My reaction, too.  From the little I know about elite
athletes, they are REMARKABLY talented individuals,
whose training varies almost unimaginably.  I'll bet
two out of the three fellows you mention would respond
in a big way to a minimal weight-training program.
Someday, some team will figure this out, and simply
roll over most of their opponents for a year or two.
Parish and Kareem are quite unusual individuals, but
sometimes they make it sound as though their longevity
was no big deal--just a little exercise, and they were
able to stay ahead of the ascending generations.

From what I remember, Horace Grant *does* avail
himself of good weight-training habits.

I'm surprised a lot of players don't work on even more
superficial faculties.  Catching the ball is a train-
able skill, and a lot of players obviously lack that
training.  'Near as I can tell, a lot of what we
celebrate when we think of Bird, Magic, ..., is simply
the consequence of their undying intensity.  They con-
stantly compete with themselves to become better.  The
average fan-in-the-stands is gaining the justified im-
pression that most of the league's players no longer
have that hunger, and interest in the NBA will soon
slip accordingly.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: cs4cb3@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Peter Granic)
Subject: Re: Toni Kukoc
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:15:37 GMT

In article <5475@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> wp01jst1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (John Tomas) writes:
>
>Nobody has commented about the second Croatia game where I believe that
>Kukoc's line read something like 16 points, (3-5 3pts), 9 assists, 5
>bounds and a couple of turnovers.  That, friends, is an excellent game
>against such opposition.  Give him the time, and he will get better.
>


I have been waiting myself for some comments.  In fact I was expecting the
performance to be downplayed by people on the net in the US.  He scored
12 of the 16 from 3 pt. distance (he was fouled on a three and hit all 3
three frows).  

In any case, I firmly believe that two games against the Dream Team, can
really not be a fair way to judge how a player will do in the NBA.  
Hopefully, he will make it to the league in 93-94 and then we will all
find out.

Peter Granic

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: American bias
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 18:59:55 GMT

In article <s6iRRB3w165w@csource.oz.au> speednut@csource.oz.au writes:
> 
>It is amazing how he can read American bias into anything...[]...
>mark jose

i couldnt let this slip by while i was Fast-Scanning this article.
mark?  in the states there has been an enormous amount of endless
verbiage going on for months & months about reading Boston bias into
just about about every event that has a key effect in a boston celtic
win.  have you ever seen the Meeks==Lor flamewars??  i think they only
have a usa distribution....

count yourself Lucky Jose.  :-)

- nate
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|       Reggie Lewis was HACKED mercilessly by Ehlo!!!!!                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ALL STATE OF MICHIGAN TEAM!!!!
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:02:18 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

Yeah, it looks like the Michigan "all-state" team could blow everyone
else off the court easily.  There's too much talent....


---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: prasad@infonode.ingr.com (Prasad Challa)
Subject: Re: daydreaming and flamefest welcome (RE: Bigmouth Barkeley)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:03:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.163342.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> tswilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Sly Fox) writes:
>
>If Phoneix did not make to the Finals, Barkely will demand a trade.
>

For the last three seasons (89-90, 90-91, 91-92), Charles 'I have the biggest
mouth' Barkeley went on predicting that Portland Blazers will win it all.
Which never came true anyway.

However, I am kinda wondering what he will do this year. Placed in the same
division, I hope he doesn't predict that way. 

Then again, I won't be surprised if he does--after all he is Charles Barkely.

-prasad


-- 
*******************************************************************************
prasad@infonode.ingr.com  |One nice thing about egotists; |Nobody is invincible
205-730-3777(o)           |they don't talk about others.  |or indispensable;
205-461-7641(h)           |				  |nobody.. Trust me.
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: 1992 CBA Draft
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:20:01 GMT

Redenko Dobras of the University of South Florida was not taken in
the NBA draft. Was he picked up as a free agent by anyone?  If so,
by whom?  If not,  does anyone know if he's going to get an oppor-
tunity in the CBA?
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: The All "Home-State" Team?
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:51:24 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <1992Aug13.171115.2648@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>			.
>Rick Mount, Larry Bird, George McGinnis, Billy Keller,
>and Kent Benson (was Benson a Hoosier?) would beat 'em
>all--'cause John Wooden would coach them.

Yes, Benson was Mr. Basketball from New Albany (just like old smilin' Steve
Alford).  I thought this thread was for current players, though.  If not,
there is no damn way you could leave Oscar Robertson off of any Indiana
all-star list.
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: sbulmahn@yoyodyne.ncsa.uiuc.edu (scooter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Bulls sign Corey Williams
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:28:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt8wrL.D7z
Reply-To: sbulmahn@yoyodyne.ncsa.uiuc.edu (scooter)
Organization: National Center for Supercomputing Applications

Just read that Bulls signed Corey Williams to a multi-year contract,
the terms of which were not given.  It kinda makes me wonder if the
Bulls are planning something funny in the near future.  First the
signing of Byron Houston, and now the signing of Byron's old teammate,
Williams.  Hmmm... maybe Krause is trying to set up a package trade with
the better half of last year's Oklahoma St. team?

Scott
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: The All "Home-State" Team?
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:09:03 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

In rec.sport.basketball.pro, wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
 > 
 > Some other guys who *did* play high school ball in North Carolina:
 >     Walter Davis
 >     Sleepy Floyd
 >     Kenny Gattison
 >     Danny Manning
 >     Nate McMillan
 >     Rodney Rogers (currently at Wake Forest)
 >     Delaney Rudd
 >     Charles Shackleford
 >     Mitchell Wiggins
 >     Dominique Wilkins
 >     Buck Williams
 >     Kenny Williams
 >     Danny Young
 > 
 > So here's my team from NC:
 > 
 >        Starters                       Backups
 > C   Brad Daugherty      Charles Shackleford  Kenny Gattison
 > PF  Buck Williams       Danny Manning        Rodney Rogers
 > SF  James Worthy        Dominique Wilkins
 > SG  Michael Jordan      Walter Davis
 > PG  Nate McMillan       Danny Young

It seems that everyone has forgotten about David Thompson and Tommy
Burleson who are NC natives, played high school basketball in NC, and 
starred on the NC State's 1974 National Championship team?  :-(

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro