From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:34:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.155449.14721@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

# In article <1992Dec21.141015.9393@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
# makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >   # What's wrong with you?  Can't you tell right from wrong?  Rounding up
# >   # and deporting innocents is wrong.  Even if it seems expedient, it is
# >   # still wrong.

# >	   These people are sworn to destroy Israel.  And if deporting them
# >   makes Israel more secure (I am not claiming here that id does or does
# >   not), and protestc all of its citizens (Jews and Arabs) than the only
# >   wrong thing is that not enough were deported.

# >	   Any government's primary mission is to its citizens first, and
# >   than any international obligations (including international law)
# >   second.
 
# Let me tell you something, David, I know a perfect way to protect you
# from everyone else....kill them. Does the fact that you can be made safe
# by eliminating every human from the earth justify killing them?

	You are being ridiculous.  Besides the fact that I would die
trying (if I was not stoped first) there are other more humane things
that can be done.

# I cannot
# believe that you accept these deportations.

	Actually, I don't.  But for other reasons, one of which you
provided in an earlier article (I think it was you).  I believe
Israel is going to take them back and will be made to look ridiculous,
without the benefit of the deportations (there are other reasons also
but I will not list them here).

# These people were not even
# given a trial and yet you have already sentenced them (you state with
# conviction that you know that each and every one of these people has
# sworn to destroy Israel). You don't even know who they are (unless you
# have special connections with the Israeli government) and yet you KNOW
# that each one of them is guilty.

	When a bomb aimed at a (ill) deserving party, it might kill him.
It might kill an innocent person.  However that does not make it wrong
to drop the bomb.  You must seek out the best alternative, even if
that means killing innocents (but that should play a role in
determining the best alternative).

	The fact of the matter is they are all supporters of HAMAS.  Given
Israel's more than justified security concerns, even if every one of
them did not participate in Toledano's murder, they should be
deported.  In fact, all of the Arabs should be deported unless they
agree to live as citizens in a Jewish state peacefully.

# Being a supporter of such a justice
# system, aren't you afraid that some day someone might come up to you,
# declare that for reasons of state security you must be expelled from
# your country and left in freezing weather without shelter or food (and
# without a country, I might add; Palestinians have no passports and so do
# not easily get around)? Of course you will have the joy and consolation
# that you will be able "appeal" the decision!! 

	No, I am not concerned, because should such a situation arise, I
will immedialty go to Israel (something which I will do anyway in the
near future if Rabin does not give it all away).  Israel exists to
provide that role for Jews.

	And their plight would not be so bad if the world, especially
their Arab bretheren spent 1% of their recources helping them that
they use complaining about them.

	And in the US I doubt I would be expelled unless I was a threat to
state security, which is one of the reasons I still chose to live
here.

	They should not have joined HAMAS.

# I would like to add that your arguments about the guilt of these people
# are even less credible when it is noted that these expulsions came
# immediately after the death of Toledano. It is obvious that these people
# cannot all be guilty of his murder and it is doubtful whether any were
# associated with it. Even though none of these people were given a trial
# and so the assertion that they are guilty of some crime is dubious, it
# is implausible to believe that all of them suddenly committed the same
# crime all at the same time. What I mean is, if the government finds an
# offense to be worthy of deportation, why was there a mass deportation?
# This was clearly a political action and not a legal action. 

	It does not matter whther or not it was political or leagl.  In
fact, it was security based, so it was neither political nor legal.

	As to my credibility, I will take the security of Jews over what
anyone thinks of my word at any time.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24060 soc.rights.human:4664