HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Stephen Jonke <jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Star Wars/Formula Games
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A758ECC656015C5D@joe.gsfc.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Sat, 19 Dec 92 20:14:14 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 20:14:18 GMT

Well, the local arcade got rid of Cactus Jacks and I was hoping that they
would get Cue Ball Wizard or White Water, but alas, they replaced it with
another Data East game, Star Wars.  Talk about dissapointment!

I have not had a chance to play it (they shut it off shortly after putting it
in place), but I did get to see them test it out.  The game seems VERY
remeniscent of Lethal Stupidity 3.  Also, the skill shot is strictly a video
game -- A bad trend getting worse.  Enough with skill shots and video modes
already!  The game in general looks really cheap, just like other D.E. games.

Even though I think there hasn't been much progress in pinball for quite some
time, pinball games only a few years ago at least felt different from each
other.  These days all the the new games seem to be close variations on other
recent games (and D.E. is not the only culprit.)  I like Fish Tails, but it
has the same features that pretty much every other game in recent times has
had.  How long can pinball manufacturers produce these formula games before
pinball starts losing its popularity again?  On the other hand, TV shows have
been using the same formulas for eons and for some ungodly reason people still
watch them, so maybe it does work.

The basic problem is that the biggest differentiating factor between games
these days is their "theme."  It use to be that "game play/play concept" was
what made games different.  Take the many pool based games from the past --
they had similar themes, but they played very differently.  These days having
a fish on top of the cabinet instead of a police light is more important then
making the games truly different.  Those gimmicks are fun, but they don't
last.  A good game design lasts.  Not suprising really -- it's the same thing
that happened to video games a long time ago with graphic design becoming more
important then game design.

Steve
------------------------
jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------
From: mahalkdp@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: TAF has high score over 4 billion
Date: 15 Dec 92 04:30:08 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

A TAF here at our school has a "Grand Champion" score of 4,275,xxx,xxx

(don't remember last six digits, but it is impressive)

The machine looks pretty worn and doesn't play very well, but after a game like
that I think I can see why... :)
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: New fun with HSII
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:23:44 GMT
Organization: VA Tech CS Dept., Blacksburg, VA, USA

Well, we just got a brand-spanking new HSII today (it'll last a month, MAYBE).
That game replaced the Simpsons (yeah!!!).  It comes back after having been
previously replaced with our only recently fully-functional BoP.

ANYway, I have one question:  Does anyone know how or why the super jackpot
seems to increase in value sometimes?  I've seen the NORMAL (non-Red Line
Mania) super jackpot at 75 M before.  And in fact, I got it today.  And that
same ball (I think) I got Red Line Mania, and the super jackpot was worth
125 M!  So earlier, I had 4 super jackpots in one game, worth 50 M, 100 M,
75 M, and 125 M.  Strange.

Thankfully, the game is tilt free.  Kevin and I were playing for some time
tonight, and the game room closed with so we left with 6 spare credits. :(
But one neat thing happened...  I got a RLM, and after having neatly lost
the first 2 balls fairly quickly and eventually getting the jackpot, it
reset to first gear, but the speed meter read 0 MPH!  (I wouldn't have
noticed this by myself since I was having a fine game, and Kevin didn't
have anything better to do :)  So I shot it up the supercharger ramp (while
it was not lit) and got a speed bonus of 00,000!  Not bad, huh?  Williams
did DE pround right there.  I also went out on a limb and tried secret
mania just to see how well it worked, but I think it still messed up the
ball count and stuff.  Another strange thing, going back to increasing
super jackpots, is that the status report showed SJ being worth 100 M
(this was NOT during RLM, it was the "normal" value), but when I got RLM,
the SJ was still only worth 100 M, instead of 150 M.

Also, it seems that the tunnel special is for all of the players, not just
individuals.  I got the 8 tunnel special one ball, and the next one Kevin
hit the tunnel and it said "7 tunnel shots, light special at 58."  hehe >:)
But that really isn't fair.  That's as bad as Diner, where if ANYONE got
the 5-cash-register-extra-ball lit, then ANYONE else in a multi-player game
had to get the 10-cash-register-extra-ball.  Really cheap.

keith
-- 
| Keith Johnson ("Keefer") |  // Amiga!|"The players tried to take the field; |
|VA Tech. Dept. of Computer|\X/  "It's | The marching band refused to yield.  |
|  Science  Undergraduate  |really not | Do you recall what was revealed      |
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|that bad!" | The day the music died?" - Don McLean|
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@degas.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Deluxe difficulty
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:13:51 GMT

Stephen Jonke <jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
>That's very dependent upon how the game is set up.  Older games were generally
>more generous about credits, but you can change the settings to make the game
>more difficult.  For instance, make it so that getting all Deluxe targets
>scores 50k first, then special.  Deluxe resets drop targets instead of
>relighting deluxe targets immediately.  If fail to complete Deluxe, then all
>Deluxe lights are relit on next opportunity (normally the ones that were out
>stay out.)  Left loop goes up to 70k and camps.  If 70k achieved on left loop,
>then on next ball left loop will go up to Special and then next time through
>camps on 70k.  Getting A, B, C, D lights spots 1 drop target instead of 2.  C
>and D must be gotten seperately (normal recommendation for 3 ball games is to
>have hitting either C or D spot both letters.)  Spot backboard Deluxe light
>only when completing playfield Deluxe lights for special (not for 50k.)  Angle
>the playfield higher.  Etc, etc.

OK, the machine I used to play was 5 balls, Deluxe starts at Special,
Deluxe relights Deluxe immediately, if you fail to complete Deluxe, it
relights them all next time (probably the only hard setting we had), left
loop as you describe, ABCD spots 2 targets, C and D are linked, sensitive
Tilt.  There was very little you could do to stop most outlane drains,
because of the Tilt and the general lack of rubber in those areas, but the
playfield is wide open and there's plenty of time to save almost anything
moving towards the flippers.

>If all else fails, just turn off all the specials and make them score points
>or extra balls (with a limit of one extra ball per ball in play) or set it up
>like almost all modern games in that you can only get a special based on a
>single threshold level and possibly for beating the high score.  In fact, the
>main reason you have a harder time getting specials on modern games is because
>of the way they are set up, not because of some inherently greater difficulty.
> You can certainly set up Eight Ball Deluxe similarly.

Don't get me wrong, I like 8BD a lot.  Used to play it for hours on a
single quarter, leaving with 29 credits (machine maxes at 15, actually,
though).  As for Specials, I've never seen a game with nearly this many
Specials on the playfield, or with a Triple Special award (for the
backglass Deluxe).  Most modern games only have one Special, and lighting
it is often rather obscure.

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY didn't you BELIEVE me?!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@degas.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Question...
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:26:15 GMT

gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>In <nhg2kmb@rpi.edu> sigma@degas.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin) writes:
>>On a side note, I've noticed that Hook will increase the replay score even
>>if you just match.  Irritating.
>Hook? Hook? Make that ALL Data East pins since (at least) BATMAN.

Touche.  I think Hook is the only DE pin I've played inthe last two years
that I can remember having a match on.  Of course, I don't play much DE.

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY didn't you BELIEVE me?!"
From: nin15b0b@merrimack.edu (David E. Sheafer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: 10 seconds to continue (CBW)
Date: 12 Dec 92 12:35:51 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

The Cue Ball Wizard at EZ Win Arcade (Salisbury Beach, MA for those who live
in the area) allows you to continue after completion of a game for .25.

The display says 10 seconds to continue, If I'm correct it doesn't state 1 coin
though, personally I like this feature how do others feel.

-- 
David E. Sheafer

internet:  nin15b0b@merrimack.edu   or  uucp:      samsung!hubdub!nin15b0b

GEnie:     D.SHEAFER             Cleveland Freenet:    ap345
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Subject: Re: Pin in Roc Live
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:24:51 GMT

In article <13910036@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Steve Pazar) writes:
>
>Since we're on the subject...did anyone notice the FIREBALL pin on
>Married With Children this past Sunday???
>
>

I noticed it, I wonder if its the same machine they had on Herman's Head. Maybe
FOX has a pinball fanatic in its prop department.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
From: nin15b0b@merrimack.edu (David E. Sheafer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: 10 seconds to continue (CBW)
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:07:45 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

In article <1992Dec14.171459.15808@exu.ericsson.se>, exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague) writes:
> David E. Sheafer writes:
>>
>>The Cue Ball Wizard at EZ Win Arcade (Salisbury Beach, MA for those who live
>>in the area) allows you to continue after completion of a game for .25.
>>
>>The display says 10 seconds to continue, If I'm correct it doesn't state 1 coin
>>though, personally I like this feature how do others feel.
> 
> When you continue, is the score zeroed or does it carry over?
> If it does carry over, are high scores bought with a pocketload
   
   The scores reset to 0, its just like starting another game, but its only
.25 instead of .50.


> 
> James Hague   
> exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
-- 
David E. Sheafer

internet:  nin15b0b@merrimack.edu   or  uucp:      samsung!hubdub!nin15b0b

GEnie:     D.SHEAFER             Cleveland Freenet:    ap345
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: 10 seconds to continue (CBW)
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:14:59 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

David E. Sheafer writes:
>
>The Cue Ball Wizard at EZ Win Arcade (Salisbury Beach, MA for those who live
>in the area) allows you to continue after completion of a game for .25.
>
>The display says 10 seconds to continue, If I'm correct it doesn't state 1 coin
>though, personally I like this feature how do others feel.

When you continue, is the score zeroed or does it carry over?
If it does carry over, are high scores bought with a pocketload
of quarters somehow differentiated from normal single-credit
scores?  That's my real dislike of continues in video games;
TAF, for example, wouldn't have been interesting for very long
if people could just pump in money until they toured the mansion.
Even if I refrained from doing this it would still take much
of the fun away, IMO.

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.)
Subject: Re: Stupid Pinball Tricks
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:55:28 GMT

In article <f6h2p1c@rpi.edu> xor@acm.rpi.edu (Joe Schwartz) writes:

>What's the most amazing thing you ever seen a pinball do?

How about: collide with another pinball and get lost INSIDE a cabinet.

Sad but true.

A really strange image just came to me.  Consider the following:

C: Bad Pinball Game Designs for $100 please, Alex.
A: The answer is: "The sequel to the 1986 original, this machine featured
a magnetic ball "accelerator" that would send pinballs airborne, smashing
them into plastic, denting the playfield, and often losing them inside the
cabinet."
C: The Getaway -- High Speed 2.
A: Correct, for $100.

Hmmm.  I think it's time I got some rest.

--
Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
The MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road, Bedford MA 01730
e-mail: lfs@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: jen@ms.uky.edu (Jennifer B. Burch)
Subject: Re: Star Wars pinball
    <SBB.92Dec11092640@panix.com> <1992Dec16.234231.13358@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:32:47 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Here at the University of Kentucky we recently got a Star Wars Pinball
machine and the ball seems to go down the right gutter TOO easily,
I was wondering if anyone out there has this problem with it too...

Thanks in advance,

Jen
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| I think the surest sign of intelligent  |  Jennifer B. Burch       |
| life in the universe is that none of    |  jen@ukpr.uky.edu        |
| it has tried to contact us.             |  jen@s.ms.uky.edu        |
|        -Calvin & Hobbes                 |                          |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Pumpkin Power)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: LW3 Comments/Questions
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:20:52 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>Yeah, y'all should come to the land of Oz, where it's a play for $1, and
>if an operator is really kind, 3 for $2. But on DE pins, if you put in 2
>one dollar coins, you only get 2 credits, but 3 for a 2 dollar coin...

I believe that's operator settable.  I have been in some arcades where
2x$1 will award 3 credits, but most of the Melbourne City arcades only
give you 2.  It would appear that's the default, and most of them are
too lazy to set it up properly (or don't know about it).  Personally I
just use it as another excuse why I shouldn't play DE games :)

Peter Barton : s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Haunted House
Originator: goldberg@vincent2.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:35:53 GMT

Some of my fondest high school memories include this pinball game.
When I buy a house, I will buy a haunted house

-- 
 Adam Goldberg                  !   Ask me how IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY is  
 goldberg@iastate.edu           !   censoring my usenet access!!        
 ..!uunet!iastate.edu!goldberg  !   >>I don't need a BIG BROTHER!!<<     
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@degas.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Stupid Pinball Tricks
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:52:40 GMT

lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.) writes:
>How about: collide with another pinball and get lost INSIDE a cabinet.
>Sad but true.
>A really strange image just came to me.  Consider the following:
>C: Bad Pinball Game Designs for $100 please, Alex.
>A: The answer is: "The sequel to the 1986 original, this machine featured
>a magnetic ball "accelerator" that would send pinballs airborne, smashing
>them into plastic, denting the playfield, and often losing them inside the
>cabinet."
>C: The Getaway -- High Speed 2.
>A: Correct, for $100.

There's a new HS2 here at VT now.  Since there's almost no Tilt and a
complete lack of maintenance, I expect it to remain playable for exactly
ten days - thankfully I'll be on break by then.

But anyway, we had three balls in the Supercharger today, and later when
there were two, one got knocked out, and we started thinking about all the
complaining posts in r.g.p back when HS2 first came out - about the problem
you describe above.  Has this problem been fixed?  Looking at the machine
we have, I can't find where the balls would manage to get down into the
cabinet.  There's a plastic cover over most of the Supercharger Loop, and
it looks like there's a barrier at the back of the playfield.

I once played a Class of 1812 with a glass that was about three inches too
short.  You could drop pretty much anything you wanted down into the
cabinet at the top, and almost scoop balls out at the bottom.  (I've hardly
played 1812 since I turned it over.)

>Hmmm.  I think it's time I got some rest.

;-)

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY didn't you BELIEVE me?!"
From: esb@unh.edu (Ed S Briggs Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: More Star Wars observations
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:50:40
Organization: /home/cs/esb/.organization
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu
In-reply-to: lfs@mitre.org's message of Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:13:45 GMT

"." == Lyman F. Sheats Jr. <lfs@mitre.org> writes: Nntp-Posting-Host:
.> deadhead.mitre.org

.> In article <Bz30Ct.75D@cs.uiuc.edu> wesselak@sunc0.cs.uiuc.edu
.> (Erik Wesselak) writes:

.> Isn't this real easy to do on DE machines!  I noticed it first on
.> Star Trek.  I use it all the time.  Just give the machine a firm
.> hit down and forward as the ball hits the plastic directly under
.> the space between the flippers after the ball comes down the right
.> side and you've got it back.

OK!  I read this in the pinball posting of how to have a good game...
I read the phrase "give the machine a firm hit 'down and forward' as
the ball hits the plastic directly under..."

Now, down and forward, I can't visualize that.  Here at UNH, we have
Startrek, and would like to do this bump... but I don't know how.

down and forward, eh?  Can someone clearly explain?

Thanks.

	^-()-^ Ed

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Ed Briggs  '94	| 	  The quotes of the semester: 	    	    !
			|						    !
esb@kepler.unh.edu 	| "There is only SO MUCH code I can BEAT out of you !
 ^-()-^    ^-()-^	| in a semester."  -(R.D. Bergeron)		    !
			|						    !
      ^-()-^	^-()-^	| "THINK!!! Put your neck on the block!!!" - Jacoby !
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@degas.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Fish Tales Special (was Re: Eight Ball Deluxe difficulty)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:59:18 GMT

Stephen Jonke <jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
>Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if it's just a setting there too.  For
>instance, Fish Tails has Special lights on the outlanes, but I've never seen
>them lit.  Either I've never triggered the event that lights them, or it's
>disabled.  I suspect the latter since I've played FT quite a bit.  There
>aren't any other special lights, though.

OK, now I'm curious.  How DO you light the Special on FT?  I think I know
how to light the Super Jackpot now (of course, the nearest machine is a
couple of hundred miles away, at least).

Anyone, anyone?

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY didn't you BELIEVE me?!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: phaedrus@halcyon.com (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: Stupid Pinball Tricks
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:27:11 GMT

In article <LFS.92Dec13225528@arcadia.mitre.org> lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.) writes:
>C: Bad Pinball Game Designs for $100 please, Alex.
>A: The answer is: "The sequel to the 1986 original, this machine featured
>a magnetic ball "accelerator" that would send pinballs airborne, smashing
>them into plastic, denting the playfield, and often losing them inside the
>cabinet."
>C: The Getaway -- High Speed 2.
>A: Correct, for $100.

      Sorry, but you lose the $100 for not phrasing it in the form of a
question. :) :) :)
      Since I'm contractually obligated to come up with about five lines more
of new text before I'll be allowed to send this post out, I'll do something
I normally wouldn't; defend High Speed II.  Yes, on the old ROMs, it was
trivially easy to get balls to collide in the Supercharger during Multiball,
sending them who-knows-where.  I've been told by reasonably reliable sources
that there are new ROMs out there that, among other interesting rules changes,
send the balls around the Supercharger only once (not 10 times) during
Multiball.  This supposedly makes it very difficult to get the balls to crash.
Admittedly, Williams should be more aggressive in getting these new ROMs
into the field, but still it does show that Williams is paying attention to
the problem.
-- 
\o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com  (Seattle, WA Public Access Unix)     \o\
 \o\ "How'd you like to move a few steps down the food chain, pal?"       \o\
  \o\ If you enjoy fantasy/SF stories with transformation themes, email me \o\
   \o\ for a copy of the Transformation Stories List.                       \o\
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: Stephen Jonke <jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Correct playfield angle for Eight Ball Deluxe?
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7536B2D11035C5D@joe.gsfc.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:59:57 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:00:03 GMT

Another question about Eight Ball Deluxe (and pins in general.)  Is there a
particular angle (front to back, obviously) for Eight Ball Deluxe that is
"correct" or "recommended"?  The bit of the manual I have makes no mention of
such, but I'm missing a lot of it.

Also, can I order a copy of the complete manual from Bally?  What is their
phone number?

Steve
------------------------
jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------
From: pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Steve Pazar)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:13:38 GMT
Subject: Pins for sale at MACYS ???!!!...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

Fellow Pinheads,
  Several friends have spotted pinball machines for sale at MACYS in
  San Francisco and Reno. The going price seems to be about $2,000
  and doesn't include a warantee. Has anyone else seen pins for sale
  at "major" department stores in other parts of the country? I wonder
  if this is an ongoing thing or just something special for Christmas.
  It sure has helped me sell a couple of "spare" pins!!!

***************************************************************************
*  STEVE PAZAR           DoD #702           Kawasaki KZ440A
*  E-mail:   pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
*  Ether:    WA4DUT/6
*  " Imagination is more important than knowledge "
***************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball