From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: SEALs
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:57:20 GMT

In article <memo.889999@cix.compulink.co.uk> quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>In-Reply-To: <1993Jan20.205947.17810@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
>
>>         control them.  Of course, being that it is Stupor Droll time again, I
>>         guess we'll have to put off the start for another couple of months...
>>         sheesh, Amerika.
>> 
>>         -Andy V.
>> 
>Of course you are in possession of the full facts regarding this
>particular incident, otherwise you wouldn't make such statements
>would you ?
	
	No, and I did not claim to be.  I was speaking in general terms.

>Are you one of these people that believe everything is avoidable, it
>can all be planned against.

	No. I am onre of those people who believe that operations such
	as these should be planned with the utmost care and professionalism.
	I believe that when citizens are damaged in ANY way and it can 
	be shown that the damage is the result of a Guvermint agency not
	taking care to plan and execute an operation properly, that the
	persons responsible for such debacles be held accountable.  

>Please remember that the Police etc. are usually dealijng with tht
>most unpredictable of things ...... humans. 

	Humans are not quite so unpredictable, especially in the normal
	course of living.  They only get that way when threatened.  There
	are plenty of good strategies and tactics that can be employed
	to minimize the problems associated with these operations.  The
	question is whether or not the Guvermint is willing to use them.
	If they are not, we ought to MAKE them.

>Really it's quite
>stunning what humans will do, so unexpected some times. As for
>waiting around a few years until you are eally sure you know
>everything exactly ... a great policy for letting people get away
>IMHO.
	Better to allow some to get away than to move improperly against
	an innocent party, especially when the possibility of injury or
	death exists for either the wrongly targeted party or the law
	enforcement officers.  If men in black masks come crashing through
	my window or door, and if I am prepared, guess what?  I will kill
	as many of them as I can.  Why?  Because I have no idea who the
	hell these people are.  Are they crooks?  DEA?  There have been
	many cases of band of thieves busting into homes, claiming to be
	DEA or FBI or what have you.  You cannot take ANYTHING for granted.

>I can see a lot in what you are saying, but and this is even related
>to MA (relevancy .. wow !) you have to go into a situation with the
>realization that the unexpected will happen and you can't plan for it
>(that's why it's unexpected). 

	After you have done all your proper, correct, careful, and
	mindful planning, and you are CERTAIN that you have the right
	target in your sights and that you are using the best strategy 
	and tactics for the given situation.  Once you are in the middle 
	of the tactical event then the "expect the unexpected" plays
	well, which I should hope would be obvious.  What I was addressing
	was what goes on before engagement so that the target is confirmed
	and taken with the minimum risk to all parties.  This most certainly
	CAN be done.  The simple fact that so many law enforcement agencies
	either neglect or refuse to take such care is not proof that it cannot
	be done but that they are either criminally inept or unwilling to
	operate in a responsible fashion.  I think the adrenalin rush of a
	big, dangerous bust figures into this somewhere... that and all the
	loot they take :(

>We were watching Perfect Weapon .... there
>is a particular scene when the main protagonist is involved in a bar
>room brawl and finally gets blind sided with a beer bottle. My mate
>was of the opinion that it should never have happened and was
>indicative of poor MA ability, I was of the opinion that shit happens

	In the heat of battle, shit happens.  This is MUCH less so in
	planning an op.

	-Andy V.
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