HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:41:37 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <23930@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU> sbhattac@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.091918.12167@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>This  is  part of the old protein (actually amino-acid) combining nonsense.
>
>Why did this nonsense get started at all? If Frances Lappe was responsible
>for it, what set of cultural biases did she suffer from? It is obvious that
>she had to contend with her own occidental presumptions about diet, but she
>was attempting something which I gather was regarded as revolutionary, so
>how is it that she fell into this nonsense? As a food chemist I find the
>notion of complementing proteins rather silly, except as a medium-term
>averaging issue, and find it odd that anyone who actually understands
>chemistry and biochemistry would give the idea more than thirty seconds
>worth of attention. Indeed, not just today, but at any time in the last
>half century.
>
I think this all goes back to the old concepts of "first" and "second"
class proteins, an idea firmly entrenched before Lappe came on the
scene.

>Did Lappe understand biochemistry? Was her initial espousal of the
>protein complementing idea an original foolishness on her part, or was she
>passing along some existing foolishness?
>
Passing it on to an extent.

>Since she managed to overcome the other meat and potatoes cultural biases
>with which she presumably grew up, I find it odd that she got stuck with
>this one.
>
That's what happens when we believe you scientists unquestioningly:->

>The idea that you need a certain balance of amino acids is perfectly
>sensible, subject to some tolerances. The notion that you need to maintain
>that balance for individual meals is not the reasonable default assumption
>for a technically informed person. If she got that notion from some
>orthodox source she was particularly unfortunate in her sources.
>
Since  the  concept  of first class proteins was considered a hard and fast
fact  at  her  time,  she  simply  postulated  that combining complementary
second  class  proteins  would  be  as good as eating first class proteins.
Not so stupid really, I'm sure I would have said the same thing.

>So, where did that idea come from?
>

I believe she got it from that irrefutable source, animal testing.

Rats  apparently  die  when continually fed a diet lacking in one essential
amino acid, even if they are fed that missing amino acid at a later time.

Shows what a waste of time animal testing is (yet again).


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: mike@isg.llnl.gov (Michael E. Hummell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Flour Tortillas
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:08:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Laboratory  Livermore, CA

In article [...] jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:
>My question is:  would someone post other types of foods and can be wrapped up
>in flour tortillas?

Here's a posting on that from the past:

Article 5933 of rec.food.veg:
From: bfreeman@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Elisabeth Freeman)
Subject: Re: use for flour tortillas...any ideas?
Date: 20 Aug 90 01:35:39 GMT
Reply-To: bfreeman@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Elisabeth Freeman)
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <2853@mindlink.UUCP> a366@mindlink.UUCP (Laurel Pedersen) writes:
>Well I've perfected my simple recipe for instant bean burritos, but have been
>wondering if anyone has any ideas on what else I could wrap up in flour
>tortillas.  I bet peanut butter & banana would be good, (haven't tried that
>yet), asparagus? mushrooms in sauce?  Tortillas are so handy, I'm dying to try
>something new with them.

My favourite things to wrap in a flour tortilla are:

- sprouts, tomatoes, mustard
- hummous
- lentil pilaf
- black bean chili
- lemon juice and sugar

Beth
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Elisabeth M. Freeman                          bfreeman@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
"Don't have a cow, eat veggies instead"       beth@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Article 6016 of rec.food.veg:
From: mec4n@boole.acc.Virginia.EDU (Mary ellen J. Carrera)
Subject: Re: use for flour tortillas...any ideas?@
Keywords: Funkey, Binkey, Stinkey
Date: 23 Aug 90 16:27:15 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <160@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.UUCP (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>In article <1990Aug21.124608.10160@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> mec4n@boole.acc.Virginia.EDU (Mary ellen J. Carrera) writes:
>[Stuff deleted] 
>>Actually, we load up tortillas with stir-fried vegetables & sauteed yuba
>>(one of the great secret vegetarian foods). Great for when we are picnicing.
>What is yuba?
>
Yuba is dried bean curd. Actually it is made from the skin that forms on
top of the kettle when tofu is being made (this is what I have been told).
It comes in flat sheets or long sticks, dried out, and is prepared by
soaking it in water, then chopping it up or stuffing it. It has a chewy
texture, and holds together quite well. In Chinese restaurants it is used
for Mock Peking Duck and Tofu Skin Rolls. Not a strong taste, like bean
curd, but a great texture. I get it in Chinese groceries, but Yuba is its
Japanese name, so I suppose you could get it in Japanese stores too.
In the Kathy Cooks Naturally book there are yuba recipes. Since it keeps
for a long time, and the sheets rehydrate in 5-10 minutes, it is great
to keep on hand - also for camping. An altogether excellent food.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mcmahon@mayo.edu (Eileen McMahon (Grad Student) )
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Reply-To: mcmahon@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 20:46:59 GMT


> If  you  want  to suffer from a protein deficiency stop eating. This is the
> only  easy  way  to  become  protein  deficient.  Even  a diet of chocolate
> biscuits and potato crisps would provide you with sufficient protein.

I for one am glad to hear this since much of my diet consists of things like cookies (a.k.a. biscuits) while at school.  Since becoming a "lacto" several years ago, I have sometimes wondered about my protein intake.
From: jmgst26@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Joseph M Goodwin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Recommendations for a good, inexpensive juicer (fruit and veg).
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:38:54 GMT
Reply-To: jmgst26@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Joseph M Goodwin)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh, Comp & Info Sys

I am looking for one that is powerful enough to make good vegetable juice,
but preferably under $200.  The only one I've heard of is the Vita-Mix,
but it's out of my price range.  Is the one on late night TV any good?
I think the guy's nickname is MR. Juice or something silly like that.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Please respond to me directly.

Mike Goodwin
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins)
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:40:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.133159.21635@clpd.kodak.com> young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.
com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.202137.17333@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie write
s:
>
>>Carol Miller-Tutzauer writes:
>>
>>>Charlie -- you'd just better bail out of this one.  Traub listens
>>>to no one, not even if they manage to make a reasonable point on
>>>occasion.
>>
>>     Not yet.  As long as it's just Traub spewing his intolerance against me;
>>I'll be able to stand up fine and dandy.  Only when he is joined by seven or
>>eight others will I consider running from rec.food.veg.
>
>[...]
>
>  Why run when the odds get poor?  The intolerance can't actually DO anything
>  to you and the more intolerant the statements, the more foolish the speaker.
>  What I'M afraid will happen is that the firestorms and flame wars will
>  drive away the more rational readers and leave a polarized group of flamers
>  like the ones in alt.abortion; if this happens, much useful information
>  will be lost, and some mighty tasty (and healthy) recipes will be kept
>  private.  Carol is the second in a trend starting over the past few days.
>
>
>-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)

Mr. Young:
The reasons I have "run":
1) M.T. never learned the lesson about the importance of quality over quantity.
2) He doesn't have a well-developed sense of humor
3) He is intellectually dishonest in his editing of other folks' articles
4) He brings out the worst in people, including me right now.
5) Grandmother taught ME: Never argue with a fool.
6) Repeat number 1 above.
JH
From: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LEATHER
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:28:02 GMT
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr7.155008.4846@rdr.com> randy%rdr.com@uu.psi.com (Randy Tidd) writes:

>
>Does this imply that you have your pets spayed/neutered?  If the answer is  
>no, read no further.  If the answer is yes, I'd like to hear the arguments  
>for such action.  I've always felt that, er, modifying your pets was *not*  
>supportive of animal rights, and is part of the attitude of "we know  
>what's best for another species, so we're going to change them" which I  
>don't subscribe to.

I am not what would be called a radical animals rights advocate, but I
certainly am concerned with the treatment of animals (I'm semi-vegan).
It seems to me that merely *having* companion animals is inconsistent
with the attitude to which you object.  I do things all the time for
my dog and two cats that I think is best for them, such as getting
them vaccinated, and keeping my dog on lead at all times.   

The way that I view my furry friends is similar to the way that I view
children.  While both should be treated as ends in themselves, neither
have the appropriate rational capacity to choose what is best for them
at all times.  Since I have taken the responsibility for caring for
these animals, I have a duty to do what is best for them (and their
potential offspring).

The pet overpopulation problem is *severe*.  Without spaying and neutering
companion animals, you are merely contributing to the suffering of
hundreds of thousands of animals that will be born.

Of course, if you wish to argue instead that pet ownership is in
and of itself wrong, that is a different issue.  But I see no way 
that one can justify keeping companion animals and *not* having them
neutered.

- michael
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:4089 sci.med:8419
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med
Subject: Soybeans as a Protection against Breast Cancer
Date: 5 Apr 92 02:47:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

Just got this bulletin from the American Cancer Society:

Soybeans as a Protection Against Cancer.

In a preliminary animal study, soybeans slowed the progression of breast
cancer by approximately 50%, say researchers at the University of Alabama,
Birmingham.  In the study, 250 rats were ingected with an agent known to cause
breast cancer.  Half of the rats were then fed a soybean-rich diet, and the 
other half were fed a diet lacking soybeans.  Rats receiving the soybeans
developed cancer at a 50% slower rate than did the rats not receiving soybeans.
Researchers first initiated the project after studying countries with very
slow rates of breast cancer, particularly Japan and other Asian countries.
They found that almost all had soybeans in their diet.  An initial finding was
the presence of an estogen-like subtance in soybeans (flavinoids) that is
similar to tamoxifen, a drug used to treat hormone-dependent breast cancer.  If
the soybean theory holds true, say the researchers, up to 67,000 women in 
the United States [and elsewhere, one would assume] could be protected
from the disease, but further testing is required to confirm these
preliminary findings.

ACS Medical Affairs Newsletter, Vol. II, No2, Feb 1990

   Does anyone know if there's been any further research on this topic?
-- 
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das
From: Kamchatka Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream)
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:51:33 GMT
Organization: (new neme here soon)

Michael Traub writes:

>There are plenty of AR type films out there showing gross scenes of
>slaughterhouses that I am sure would knock your son into shape. However
>I'm not quite sure if it would be worth it, these films are pretty
>horrific for even an adult to watch.

     Actually kids are pretty sturdy creatures.  They recover faster then
adults and can take more (pound for pound) than adults can.

kamchatka charlie
KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
From: nkraft@bkhouse.cts.com (Norman Kraft)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the single veggie flame war
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:39:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: bkhouse.nkraft.030w
Organization: Argus Computing, San Diego, CA
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.28 2/25/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz

In article <1992Apr8.163438.29434@news.eng.convex.com> jjohnson@convex.com (Jennifer L. Johnson) writes:
>
>In article  <1992Apr7.113900.10616@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, cpbuehrer writes:
>
>>this flame thread originated (more or
>>less) from someone posting that they refuse to associate with meat eaters and
>>would never consider dating one...because of the different life styles.  
>
>This is inaccurate.  I never said I refused to associate with meat eaters.
>I have friends who eat meat, and it's easy to avoid the issue because I
>don't eat with them.  I simply said that the "special person" in my life
>must share my most deeply-held beliefs.  I think most people would agree
>with this requirement.

As quoted above, this is what Jennifer wrote, I agreed with in my posts, 
and cpbuehrer consistently misunderstood. It is quite a reasonable
position, and there are few among us that do not place some sort of
criteria upon those that become our lovers/significant others.

>>Attitudes like that
>>aren't healthy...if people can't coexist with others then IMHO they shouldn't
>>exist at all.                ^^^^^or even ATTEMPT to do so

Oh, here's a lovely bit of leading by example. You can't stand the intolerant
to the point that you become intolerant? Not to mention your blatant 
disrespect for life in the above "shouldn't exist at all". Since when is
that your call?

Norm.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Norman R. Kraft 			   INET  : nkraft@bkhouse.cts.com
Senior Partner				   UUCP  : ucsd!crash!bkhouse!nkraft
Argus Computing 			   GENIE : N.KRAFT3
San Diego, CA				   PORTAL: nkraft@cup.portal.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Recipe: Brazilian Cornmeal Pudding
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:57:07 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

More South American food. My books on South American cooking say that
the following dish is typical of peasant cooking in Brazil. Cornmeal
is also used a great deal in the southern United States, and I remember
seeing it when I used to go to visit relatives in Alabama. In any case, 
it is a very cheap, satisfying hot meal that would do well for a poor
student, or anyone on a budget. 

Brazilian Cornmeal Pudding

1 cup cornmeal
5 cups water
1/2 teaspoon salt
Freshly ground pepper to taste

Put the cornmeal, water, and salt in a large saucepan. Bring to a boil,
then reduce the heat and simmer about 30 minutes, stirring occasionally, 
until mixture is smooth and very thick. Serve in bowls and top with 
a teaspoon of margarine. 

-Mary Howard
From: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and warexit
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:47:25 GMT
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr7.225356.10628@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> cpbuehrer@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
>> It is somewhat wrong to eat family farmed animals that were free ranged. 
>> However, if a person cannot convert to vegetarianism, then this is the way I
>> point them to.
>
>And what gives anyone the right to tell someone else how they should live their
>lives???  I guess in your world the right people get to tell the wrong people.

Aren't *you* telling the *poster* how to live their life?

Actually, if you look at the above posting, nowhere does this person say
they are imposing their views on others.  They are merely pointing out
the alternatives.

>> "If you wish to know why there are disasters of wars and armies in the world,
>> come listen to the piteous cries from the slaughterhouse at midnight."
>> 
>> Also, from Isaac Bashevis Singer:
>> "I think that everything connected with vegetarianism is of the highest
>> importance, because there will never be any peace in the world so long as we
>> eat animals."

>                         
>Until people stop believing everything they read and quoting everything that
>sounds good...there will be wars.  I recommend people THINK above all else.
>I find it hard to believe vegetarian is the ultimate answer...a little
>compassion, respect, and understanding can make a world of difference.  Try
>opening your mind (wider) and try it some time.
>
>--Dennis

Dennis, I *have* thought *very* carefully about my position.  My choice to 
become vegetarian was (and is) based on working through the ethical 
and environmental implications of my actions.  It *was* (and is) an
"open-minded" decision.  Most meat-eaters I have met do not "think"
at all about where their food comes from, and are far from "open-minded"
when vegetarianism is discussed. 

- michael
From: cpbuehrer@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and warexit
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:53:55 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

> It is somewhat wrong to eat family farmed animals that were free ranged. 
> However, if a person cannot convert to vegetarianism, then this is the way I
> point them to.

And what gives anyone the right to tell someone else how they should live their
lives???  I guess in your world the right people get to tell the wrong people.



> "If you wish to know why there are disasters of wars and armies in the world,
> come listen to the piteous cries from the slaughterhouse at midnight."
> 
> Also, from Isaac Bashevis Singer:
> "I think that everything connected with vegetarianism is of the highest
> importance, because there will never be any peace in the world so long as we
> eat animals."
>
> ****************************** "My situation is a solemn one: Life is offered
> * 491MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * me on the condition of eating beefsteaks...My
> * or                         * will contains directions for my funeral, which
> * X91MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by
> * Tim Miley                  * oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small
> * Western Michigan University* traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing
> * Kalamazoo, Michigan        * white scarves in honor of the man who perished
> ****************************** rather than eat his fellow-creatures..."- GBS

                         
Until people stop believing everything they read and quoting everything that
sounds good...there will be wars.  I recommend people THINK above all else.
I find it hard to believe vegetarian is the ultimate answer...a little
compassion, respect, and understanding can make a world of difference.  Try
opening your mind (wider) and try it some time.

--Dennis
From: hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steve Hopper)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:23:33 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego
Originator: hopper@empyrean.ucsd.edu


There was an earlier post about how cows are able to keep producing
milk, either with hormones or induced pregnancy.

Now, I was not raised on a farm, but isn't the scenario something
like that if a cow is routinely milked after giving birth that
it will keep giving milk?  Maybe there is a limit to the time
involved?  Sounds like basic anatomy to me!


Steve

-- 
Steve Hopper                    Internet: shopper@ucsd.edu
UCSD CSE Dept.                  Bitnet:   shopper@ucsd

-- 
Steve Hopper                    Internet: shopper@ucsd.edu
UCSD CSE Dept. 0114             Bitnet:   shopper@ucsd
9500 Gilman Drive               UUCP:     ...!uunet!ucsd!shopper
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114 USA     Voice:    +1 619 534 1335
From: rovel@donatello.nrl.navy.mil (Amy Rovelstad)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: pets (was Re: LEATHER)
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:51:34 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Code 4222, Washington, DC

In article <1992Apr9.083521.16470@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes regarding a previous poster:
>
>Keeping pets at all is inconsistent with your stated objectives.
>
>The  problem  is  that  you may have taken the animals in for compassionate
>reasons,  and  this  cannot  be  faulted,  however I think that pet keeping
>should  as  a rule not be part of a Vegan lifestyle. It only encourages the
>breeding of more animals, and they are normally fed on other animals.
>
>If  one  likens  meat  eating to cannibalism then one can liken pet keeping
>to  slavery.  You may treat your slaves with love and respect, but they are
>still slaves.
>
>Please  note  that  I  am  not  recommending that you get rid of your pets,
>just   that   I  don't  think  you  should  replace  them  when  they  die.

[conclusion deleted]
>
>Michael Traub
>BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk



I am just curious.  Do you make any differentiation between pets obtained
via pet stores/breeders/puppy mills and those rescued through the SPCA
(for example)?  It seems to me that once the animal has been born that 
adopting them is morally acceptable, since the other alternative is for them
to be killed (as a direct consequence of human irresponsibility).  Of course, 
this must be coupled with spaying/neutering etc, and in an ideal world where 
the vegan/animal rights lifestyle has been universally adopted there will 
be no more of these discarded animals and the practice will come to a stop. 
However, until those utopian times descend upon us, there will still be a 
need for adoption.

To anyone who takes offense at the above characterizations: please note
that most of the posters so far in this thread seem to be in substantial 
agreement.  My question is directed to them.  I do not mean to rile 
those who might disagree about what an `ideal' world would look like, and
don't wish to get off on that track.

Amy (startled to find that even *she* has been baited into 
     posting on a non-food topic...)
From: shankar_k@mscf.med.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN: Fruit Crumblies
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:17:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Med School Computer Facility

A fast, easy, and pretty healthy breakfast or dessert:

Fruit crumble:


2 pears (any kind), sliced thin (peel is optional; I left it on)\
2 cups rolled oats
1/2 tsp cinnamon (or 1/4 tsp ground cardamom for a change of pace)
1/4 tsp ground nutmeg
1/2 cup brown sugar
4 tbsp margarine

Preheat oven to 350.  Spread fruit around to cover botton of 8X8 or 9X9 square
pan.  Mix other ingredients until crumbly.  Spread onto fruit.  Bake 25 minutes
until oats are brown.

You can also use dried fruit (dried pears, apples, and peaches cooked in juice
such as apple or pear or peach; mix juice into topping instead of margarine,
raisins, figs, or prunes), cooked cranberries, raspberries, peaches, plums,
and/or even mangoes!  Goes well with ice cream or some such sweet cold thing
for the decadent set...

Kalpana
2 apples, cored and sliced thin

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg