From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Intellectuals and totalitarianism (was Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT)
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:48:37 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Aug25.151711.11213@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.042821.23309@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
@	But then why have we lost major industries to the Japanese and
@Europeans?

>Why not?  What does it matter if we lose and industry here and there?
>If we had rampant unemployment I might be a bit more worried.  As it
>is, we concentrate on what we do best and let them concentrate on what
>they do best.

	Our consumer-electronics industry is essentially gone. Yes,
G-O-N-E, gone. Try finding a stereo system that isn't made in Japan or
Korea or some other such place some time.

	Although the IBM-PC design was Made in America, there is a big
population of clones that were made abroad.

	Our car makers have had to make deals with Japanese car
makers just to get Japanese designs.

	If it wasn't for that, then American car makers would have
less of a market than they do now, what with the Europeans and
Japanese and Koreans making more affordable cars.

@	I don't know how much of this is really true, but I've seen
@serious speculation that the US is getting a bit too Third-World-like
@in exporting agricultural and mineral resources and importing
@manufactured items. 

>Well, first off, as far as I know we are a net importer of mineral
>resources.  Where have you seen this speculation?  As far as
>agricultural goes, what's wrong with that?  Are you suggesting that we
>shouldn't be exporting so much food?  If so, how do you suggest we
>correct the situation?

>A.  Eat more?
>B.  Grow less?
>C.  Grow the same amount but let it rot?

>Why are any of these choices superior to exporting food?

	I'm not complaining about exporting food in principle, I'm
just complaining about the lack of other significant exports.

	My mother said something interesting once. Instead of
exporting wood to Japan, we should be exporting stuff made from wood
instead.

@	One thing that we can start working on, to name one of my
@favorite examples, is high-speed railroading. The Europeans and the
@Japanese are way ahead of us there. Amtrak's fastest route, the
@stretch between New York City and Washington, DC, is a heck of a lot
@slower than the French TGV, which travels at 180 mph on some routes.

>Why do we want high-speed railroading?  New York to DC costs about
>$100 to fly.

	A heavily subsidized $100 to fly. Amtrak is no Bullet Train,
but it costs less on this route -- and is actually less subsidized
than the airline industry, which has had a host of indirect subsidies
in the form of airport maintenance, air traffic control, airliner R&D,
and so forth.

	And I've found even Amtrak trains more comfortable than the
typical airliners.

Is it really worth the money to build a high speed rail
>line between those two cities?  Especially if you take into account
>the fact that high speed rail lines need to be much straighter than
>current rail lines so you need a whole new right of way that goes
>through the Eastern seaboard, one of our most densely populated regions.

	I agree that that is a potential difficulty, but if one has
neighboring land available, one can straighten out existing lines. The
NY-DC route is already pretty straight, happy to say.

@	Public transit also needs expansion. Endless traffic jams and
@freeway-building haven't done much to make our cities more livable.

>Compared with what?  How they were 20 years ago before the amazing US
>economy let virtually anyon who wanted one buy a car?  Or compared
>with what they would be if we hadn't built the freeways?

	Buy one, maybe. Use one? I wouldn't count on cars being very
usable when lots of other drivers have exactly the same idea of where
to go. Do you _enjoy_ gridlock?

	Between San Francisco and Oakland there is the Bay Bridge and
the Transbay Tunnel. 

	I've been across the bridge a couple of times by bus, and at
the San Francisco end, there would be a traffic jam -- and my
crossings were on weekends. I've been through that tunnel by BART, and
it was fast and comfortable, if a bit noisy.

	Besides, you can't read while driving, and you can't do very
much sightseeing, either.

@Pushing gas taxes up to reasonable levels might be a good idea; that's
@why European gas prices are a lot higher than ours.

>I love liberals.  They are so damned predictable.  "RAISE TAXES"!!!

	Since you hate taxes so much, I presume that you want a lot of
government services without having to pay for them. Given your
priorities, these include such things as roads and airports.