From: coulman@cs.Usask.CA (Randy Coulman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: SUMMARY: Questions: Tape Backup/ATI GU Pro/Mail Order
Date: 18 Dec 1992 18:57:12 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Distribution: world
Reply-To: coulman@cs.Usask.CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

A couple of weeks ago I posted an article asking a couple of questions.  I
received a few answers to one of them, and I promised a summary, so here it
is.  Thank you to those who responded.

Here's the original post, with responses integrated:
--------------
I will (finally) be ordering a new system for OS/2 next week.  I have 
a couple of questions I need answered first:

[ I have ordered this now - should be coming around New Year's day.  I've
already got the tape drive, UPS, and OS/2, with Faxworks and a fax/modem
on the way as well. ]

1) I was planning to buy an Irwin A250 tape drive, since they have OS/2
backup software (as good or bad as it may be).  However, it appears that
the software is somewhat expensive (I haven't been able to find an upgrade
price from the DOS version in Canada).  From rumblings in this group, I 
gather that Colorado is beta-testing OS/2 software for their drives.  Does
anyone have any general ideas about how much this will cost?  When it will
be out?

[ No responses here.  I ended up ordering the Irwin drive.  I then called
Irwin and ordered the upgrade for US$99.  Hopefully it will do the trick. ]

2) I'm going to be buying from Gateway 2000.  The system comes with a
local-bus version of the ATI Graphics Ultra Pro with 1MB VRAM.  This is
upgradeable to 2MB VRAM plus a different RAMDAC chip (I forget the exact
numbers).  The price for this is US$125.  Does it buy me anything under OS/2?
Or should I just wait until it does buy me something?

--- Robert L. Sillett replied:
Maybe.

We just got in 2 Pros.  It's unknown when ATI will ship seamless
32-bit drivers, but at least they're working on 'em.  The 16-bit
drivers that ship with the Pro crashed all the time (on both machines,
386/25 and 486/50), so you need to use the 16-bit 8514/A drivers
included in OS/2.

When using 8514/A or Mach8 drivers, you need to split your memory
between the VGA and accelerator parts of the Pro, otherwise a DOS box
in Win31 or OS/2 will crash the system.  Since my cards have 2 MB, I
gave 1 MB to VGA and 1 MB to the accelerator (since 1024x768x256
8514/A only requires 1 MB and I can use the 1 MB of VGA to run DOS
SuperVGA programs in a DOS box).  I don't know if you can give 256 kB
to VGA and 768 kB to the accelerator and use the 8514/A drivers.
You'd better call ATI tech support (good luck -- they're ** ALWAYS **
busy).

We have a couple of Gateways w/ the ATI Ultra installed running OS/2
2.0 and the 8514/A drivers.  The Pro is faster than the Ultra, but the
8514/A drivers still are terrible.  No seamless windows and no palette
management are supported (bitmaps and backgrounds look fine under
full-screen Win-OS2, but the colors are off in PM/WorkPlace shell.
32-bit drivers w/ 256+ colors have palette management w/ the Service
Pack.  The 8514/A drivers are still 16-bit.)

If you can wait until spring/summer when ATI releases its drivers,
then the card is fine.  All that's really needed in the short term is
decent 32-bit seamless 8514/A drivers w/ palette management.

Here's what the card can do -- when ATI writes drivers (their Win31
drivers still don't support all modes yet).

w/ 2 MB

	1280 x 1024 x 256 colors
	1024 x 768 x 64,000 or 256 colors
	800 x 600 x 16.7m, 64k, or 256 colors
	640 x 480 x 16.7m, 64k, or 256 colors

w/ 1 MB

	1024 x 768 x 256 colors
	I don't know about the lower resolutions, sorry.

--- Bob

-- 
| Robert L. Sillett                Internet:    sillett@edc3jr.gsph.pitt.edu  |
| Systems Analyst		   US Mail:     127 Parran Hall               |
| Certified Novell Engineer (CNE)               130 DeSoto St.                |
| University of Pittsburgh                      Pittsburgh, PA  15261         |

--- Frank Burleigh writes:
i can't speak to the other questions you ask, but i have been
thinking along the ati gu pro as well.  watch out.  the os/2
drivers that come with the card don't work with ga+servicepak.
ati's head of driver development told me that they will do a
fix of some sort for those drivers in 1q93--but they are 16
bit drivers from the mach8-based cards, so they won't be an
optimal solution (though something that works would be nice;-)).
32 bit drivers for the mach8 will arrive, they say, in/by 2q93.

my understanding is that, the above taken into account, you'll
have to use your pro as an 8514a card using ibm's 8514a
drivers.  these drivers are (still) 16 bit and don't offer
seamless winos2 (if that matters).  also, ati's driver guy
told me to make sure to get 2mb.  i presume to accomodate the
1024x768 of 8514a.  not sure if this means the card will just
not work with os/2 with but 1mb or if it'll just drop to vga
resolutions.  obviously you'll be disappointed either way if you
expected something better.

the driver guy did tell me that the pro is plenty fast acting
as an 8514a.  

also be aware of the memory aperture issue: the ati cards won't
work in isa machines with more than 12mb because they need some
of that address space.  ati's newer windows drivers will allow 
the aperture to be on or off.  you'll lose some speed without
it but apparently not that much.  not sure of further details.
this isn't a problem with the card in 8514a mode and the 32 bit
os/2 drivers will copy with the limitation.

now, i bought my machine just a few months ago and didn't take
this kind of stuff into account.  i should have.  the lesson i
get is, avoid isa--get local bus or eisa or mca where these
issues won't come up.  don't know what bus the gateway uses.
maybe it is local bus.

one other point: $125 seems like a lot for the memory/ramdac
upgrade.  when i prices these cards from mail order places the
difference in the 1mb and 2mb versions was well under $100.  so
if you could get the machine without that card...

that's what i know--for what it's worth.  as someone else has
recently written me,

   short story: great hardware, drivers suck!

-- 
Frank Burleigh
Department of Sociology, Indiana University, Bloomington, IN  47405
CIS 72730,1017; Internet burleigh@ogre.cica.indiana.edu; Bitnet burleigh@iubacs

--- Yamanari write:

	You get incredible speed of graphics programs in a window,
	that's for damn sure.  You also get setup headaches fro
	hell.  See my Gateway Installation Hell post (November).

	I'd recommend it anyway, but go ahead and buy the extra med
	of VRAM--without it you can't get to the highcolor graphics
	modes in 800x600 or 1024 modes.  the Windows drivers
	are top notch, but they are are (unfortunatley) nonexistant
	for OS/2, and the 8514 compatibility isn't so hot--I have 
	YET to get WINOS2 to work properly (vanishing/flashing cursor..)
	and there seem to be some strange behaviors (primarily with
	DOS games..).  You will need to follow a pretty rigorous
	installation to get it running tho.

	See my message--I got it working (as it is) and it works
	great (it's a dx2-66 lb system, and it _s_c_r_e_a_m_s_) 
	but it's a pain in the butt.  

	Gateway tech support was a big zero for assistance.  IBM
	had nothing much to say (kept insisting to me that I had
	to have a VGA passthru for my 8514a/ultra card, which I 
	told them I don't have.. and so on..) 
.

	Speaking of which, what _does_ the additional ramdac do?  
	Gateway's docs mention it as an option,but not what it does.

-- 
 Snout: O Bottom, thou art chang'd!  What do I see on thee?          
 Bottom: What do you see?  You see an ass-head of your own, do you?  
 ---"I despise mystics, they fancy themselves so deep, when they----
 ----aren't even superficial"    --Nietzsche   ---------------------
---
[ I took these responses into consideration.  I ended up ordering the
RAMDAC and VRAM upgrades. ]

3) Where's a good place to find competitive prices for OS/2 software?  For 
DOS and Windows, you can just look in all the magazines to find the best 
price, but no one advertises OS/2 software.  I've found one place in Calgary
that I can get software from, but I have no idea what the prices are 
compared to anywhere else.  Example: PMFax is about CDN$230 including
shipping.  Is that a good price?  They'll also sell me the OS/2 upgrade from
Windows for CDN$84 including shipping, which I think is pretty good 
considering IBM Canada told me CDN$159.

[ No responses here.  Someone (I think Timothy Sipples) posted a list of
prices from somewhere (Programmer's Connection?).  I called and confirmed
their prices of US$109 for PMFax (now Faxworks).  I then called my source
in Calgary and they matched the price, so I ended up getting it for
CDN$152, shipping included.  P.S.  If anyone in Canada wants the name and
number of this place, I'd be happy to share it with you.  These guys
specialize in OS/2 stuff, their prices include shipping, they will match
any price they can confirm, including US Mail Order, the service has been
great so far.  I think they're a relatively new company, but I've been
extremely impressed so far.  As well, they're in Alberta, so there's no
PST.  If you're interested, drop me a note.  NOTE: I am not affiliated with
them in any way, just a satisfied customer. ]

4) When joining the DAP in Canada, do you get something similar to the OS/2
Solutions Coupon Book that you can get in the States?  If so, it might be
worth my while to wait for that before buying some of my software.  Comments?

[ No responses here.  I haven't joined yet, but I'll probably do it early
in the new year. ]

Thanks for your time.  Posted or e-mailed responses are fine.  I'll summarize
any responses I get.

Thanks again,
Randy



-- 
Randy A. Coulman                |       ARIES Laboratory
Research Assistant              |       Department of Computational Science
                                |       University of Saskatchewan
coulman@cs.Usask.ca             |       Saskatoon, SK   S7N 0W0             
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc