From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.dads-rights,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.child-support
Subject: Re: I HAD NO CHOICE ( was: Biological reasons etc...
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:12:44 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL

In article <1992Dec11.144451.8946@bmw.mayo.edu> bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron) writes:
>In article <2195@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>, bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            ) writes:
>|> 
>|> When it comes to child support, the more he MAKES, the more they TAKE.  Also, 
>|> child support is NOT tax deductible, nor does the 'non-custodial parent' get
>|> the tax deduction for the children.  It doesn't increase the mother's tax 
>|> burden by one cent.
>|> 
>
>If child support is a percentage, not a fixed amount, then it would seem
>that the less a man makes, the less he has to pay. Thus he is free to go
>back to school or otherwise reduce his income to 0 without any worries.

Execpt for one problem -- the law has made it such that the support is a
percentage of your >possible< earnings in many if not most cases.  People
here on the net have been told as much in court point blank -- "lose your
job, or change jobs, and you'll be in contempt of court."

This means that if you lose your job you continue to rack up support
charges at an unbelievable rate, which insures you will never catch up.  You
will also be found in contempt of court and >jailed< if necessary, not that
jailing you will allow you to somehow pay off the debt.

Further, child support is one of the items that bankruptcy does NOT
discharge.  Thus, your life as an individual is PERMANENTLY ruined if you
lose your job.  Given the current economic climate, and the fact that most
of us become unemployed at one time or another, just what is it that men
have to look forward to in this situation?

Now, pray tell, just what does a man have left to lose in this situation?
If you place a person in a position where they have nothing left to lose you
will find that that person does some rather extraordinary things.  Actions
that no "sane" person would attempt.  Yet when you have no way out of a
situation why not get some equality "on the hard end of the stick" as it
were?

>Last time I looked, the 1040 (as well as applications for loans & credit
>applications) ask about other sources of income, on of which is child support
>payments. I also believe that you can take a deduction of a minor that does
>not reside with you if you contribute some given dollar amount towards that
>child's support. However, since I look at tax forms once a year, this is
>from a hazy memory and I am willing to accept that I may be off-base on
>this. Anyone know the actual IRS code on this?

But is it really "child support"?  I posit that it is not, as no woman has
to account for where the money actually went.

>|> Yes, I am "free" of all the time I used to spend with my kids... "free" from
>|> all those conversations we used to have over dinner, or while I was driving
>|> them to school... "free" from having to tuck them in at night... "free" from
>|> taking them out for halloween or seeing them open their christmas presents...
>|> "free" of hugs and greetings at the door, "free" from wiping up spilled milk,
>|> "free" from all those thousands of moments that make the difference between
>|> life with a family and life without one...  the only thing that I was not
>|> free to do was to TURN DOWN all this "freedom"... in that i had absolutely
>|> no choice... 
>|> 
>|> but naturally, haven been given all this "freedom" that i didn't want, the
>|> state naturally expects that i should pay for it... so i spent the past 
>|> three years living in a 9'x12' room, sharing a bathroom with twenty other
>|> people and cooking on a hot plate, while the state garnishes 35% of my 
>|> gross pay and gives it to my ex who now owns the home that I bought and 
>|> paid for...  sounds like a pretty good deal, eh?
>|> 
>|> personally, i don't give a rat's ass about 'reproductive choice', because i
>|> WANTED kids... i loved having them around... i didn't mind changing diapers
>|> or getting up early to help them get dressed for school... i was a good
>|> father, and i did my best to help them grow up strong and self-confident...
>|> my kids used to have a father, but now they have a visitor...
>|> 
>|> i just don't understand how the family courts can be so vicious and so
>|> ignorant... i can't help but wonder... did they have to take EVERYTHING??
>
>So, are you objecting to supporting the children you wanted, or
>just pissed off that their mother left you?

Supporting?  As in being a walking wallet?

This is a dangerous situation for women to place men into.  I suggest that
they rethink the realities of it.  

If a man really does love his kids as the pinnacle of his life, and this is
done to him, PLUS he loses his economic freedom, just what does he have
left?  And what avenue does this leave open to him?

Note that there isn't a woman in this country who has had this kind of
punitive sanction applied to her over family matters.  

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
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