From: PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: Brady Bill squashed and other news
Keywords: Brady, Good riddance
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:26:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.192853.29185@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:

>In article <PA142548.343.718469565@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.221840.22474@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:
>>>I'm really going to enjoy posting the summary of how the vote went, BY
>>>PARTY AFFILIATION.  Any Libertarian demagogues out there who want to put
>>>their money where their mouth is and bet me whether there is a significant
>>>difference between the two parties on this one?
>>
>>Have fun.  I'm no demagogue, but the Republicans are as much the enemy as 
>>the democrats, and from my perspective, there is no practical difference.  
>>Both want to tax away my income, they just disagree with each other on how 
>>to spend the booty from the extortion process.  Both parties are willing to 
>>dis-assemble my civil liberties as protected under the Second Amendment, teh 
>>democrats, eagerly, the republicans, as a lever to pry away at my OTHER 
>>civil liberties.
>
>Well, you know how to spout the Libertarian party line, but it is all
>unsupported assertion.
>
>Perhaps you were not a subscriber when I issued my challenge a few weeks
>ago on this subject. I asked for a recorded vote on gun control (not a
>rider on some huge bill) that would reveal the attitudes of the members of
>Congress from each party on this issue, and would show no significant
>difference between the parties.

    There are many, important differences between the two major parties.
One of these is the *general* attitude among the politicians toward
gun control.
    Obviously the Democrats and Republicans differ in their attitude toward
a number of issues, gun control being the one dealt with here.

>  No one has produced such an example. (I
>limited it to Congress to get a good statistical sample from both parties,
>and to emphasize my point that the strong need on November 3 is to get the
>Democrats out of control of Congress.)
>
>People have made several irrelevant comments, but they have failed to
>produce an example.

     Point:  Records indicate Democrats are less likely to support the
right to keep and bear arms as Republicans. 

     Qualifier:  Records indicate the Democrats and Republicans, in general,
tend toward larger and more powerful government (ignoring rhetoric for the
moment).  In this way, which is of such importance to Libertarians, there
is little difference between the parties.

>I noted that it is perfectly acceptable to me for a Libertarian to say that
>he disagrees with Democrats on some issues, Republicans on others, and votes
>Libertarian as a result.  I just challenged the Libertarian demagogues to
>back up the claim, posted on this newsgroup many times, that there is no
>difference between the parties on the single issue of gun control.

     Ignoring the ranting, party-line lunatics you find in every group
(and the best thing really is to ignore them) Libertarians do not 
necessarily believe that either the Democrats or the Republicans are 
"better" or "worse" than the other on the subject of gun control, but have 
both shown on several occasions they are willing to enact gun control.  
Basically they are not interested in that one party has a "better" record, 
but that both parties have made compromises they strenuously object to.
     
>The usual response is to change the subject and start talking about spending
>and deficits and so on.  As you are willing to spout the Libertarian
>demagoguery about gun control, prehaps you can provide an example that
>satisfies my criteria: From the last 20 years, a vote in Congress limited
>to some gun control issue, which shows no significant difference between
>Democrats and Republicans.

     I really think you're using two different kinds of definitions here.
To many Libertarians, any compromise makes the Republicans as bad as the
Democrats.  A little simplistic, but consistant as far as the ideology goes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal               University of Tennessee Div. of Cont. Education
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  Information Services Group
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns