HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: National Coming Out Day
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:18:47 GMT

>In article <1baj8qINNqku@agate.berkeley.edu> jcripe@garnet.berkeley.edu
>(Janice E. Cripe) writes:
>>
>>Since today is National Coming Out Day, I thought I'd add
>>myself to the long list of people I've seen demuffining
>>themselves recently and go ahead and post.

On Monday, there were some festivities at OSU for National Coming Out
Day.  I stayed away from it all, torn between wanting to be more active
and open and the fear that the wrong people will find out (parents,
relatives--I can't deal with that right now) that I'm bisexual.  But it
felt good knowing other people were out there openly and in a way I felt
that I was there with them.  In spirit, at least.

But I _did_ catch up as much as I could on soc.bi, and the next day I
actually stopped by the Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Student Services
office and picked up some general information fliers.  The information
rack was located in the hallway outside the office and I just calmly
stood there in plain sight, picked out what I wanted and left.  It was
a step.  It wouldn't have happened (or at least, not as soon) without
NCOD.  Much thanks to all of you who participate actively in that
event.

Hey, it's scary out there.

Steve
From: mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I am not a bisexual!!!!
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:38:07
Organization: Department Of Computing, Imperial College, London.
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak41.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu's message of 9 Oct 1992 06:20:42 GMT

In article <1b38bqINNdsr@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau) writes:
>	   Freshmen (freshpersons/freshpeople for the PC) are extremely fun
>to mess with.  That is their purpose at College.  It is a reward for
>surviving previous years that you get to make the Freshlings feel 
>confused, displaced, and uncomfortable.  8^)  (all of the preceeding
>has been meant jokingly)

I prefer the British term, `fresher'. Neither gendered nor awkward.

How can you distinguish a fresher from a long-time student you've
never seen before? At Imperial College it's easy; *they're not
cynical*. They're eager, enthusiastic and innocent. They have clean,
ironed clothes. They don't know how to order at the bar and don't know
how to knowledgably moan about the new depths of awfulness reached by
the bitter. Just about all the males have short hair and are
clean-shaven.

Yesterday they gave all the Computing freshers their new computer
accounts. A good source of minor amusement as they floundered their
way through UNIX ... I'm going to have to introduce them to USENET and
mudding ...

Wonder if any of them will read soc.bi? <grin>

-Matt [not yet awake ... 9:37 am - what do you expect?]

--
| Matthew J. Brown  | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to   |
| mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk  | Imperial College,  | lectures He wouldn't have created |
| mjb02@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate   | double-sided photocopiers.        |
| Morven on Lambda  | LONDON SW7 2AZ     |          -IC RagMag 1991/92       |
Xref: sparky soc.bi:13692 soc.motss:42944
From: tal@warren.mentorg.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Tom's *yawn* NCOD Experience
Date: 12 Oct 1992 23:57:56 -0400
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, New Jersey, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp
Summary: I had a boring NCOD.

Well, unlike other years where I made a major campus announcement, or
last year where I came out to my first post-college employer, this year
I couldn't think of much to do.

It's all strange.  The first NCOD (1988?) was such a big event for me.
Every year since then its been my happiest day of the year; if not the
most exciting.

I'm bogged down with Clinton In New Jersey stuff.
I'm bogged down with travelling to the AIDS Quilt in D.C.
I'm still burned out from the big wave 'o activism I was involved in 1
year ago (and finished Jan 20 of this year).
I'm burning out on Bi Net New Jersey stuff.

I'm out to anyone that needs to know (doctors, etc.).
I'm out to anyone that should know (parents, family, etc.).
I'm out to employment-related people where it counts (and I have enough
posters in my office that the rest should guess).

So, this year I made a sign that said, "Don't Die Wondering!" with a
triangle at the bottom and put it in my office.

Nothing.

Damn.

Well, I'll keep the sign up, most likely until it starts to yellow and
falls on its own.  Next year I really want to plan something big.
Really big.  Really *REALLY* big.  *REALLY* *REALLY* *BIG*

Does anyone know Oprah's phone number?

Tom

-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
                                                Read my lips:
B0 f+ t w c- d g k+++ s+++ m- e++ h r-- p       NO MORE GEORGE BUSH!
S7/2 b+ g l+ y z- n++ o++ x++ a-- u+ v+ j+ PIG8/5
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas)
Subject: Re: My first Triangle
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering - University of Melbourne 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:33:41 GMT

Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>> zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>>->    If you meet a queer on the road, kill them.
> "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
>our development comes from being true to ourselves, not
>by mindlessly following the example of some "super-queer".

Yepperama.

>As an alternative one might suggest:

> If you meet a Queer on the road, fuck em!

Nah. Not good enough, Albert darls. My one isn't as succinct, but it goes:

Smash your icon of Ciaran with an axe,
burn your poster of Elf to finest ash,
and hurl your Iseult statuette out the window.

I do these people no greater honour than in doing so.

##############################################################################
# Der Mensch liegt in groesster Noth,      You are reading another .sig from
# Der Mensch liegt in groesster Pein;     the NICK NICHOLAS .sig Factory. Mail
# Je lieber moecht ich im Himmel sein.     [nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au] for your
#    -- Des Knaben Wunderhorn, _Urlicht_   .sig suggestions. [Padding Space]
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New Group Formed!
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:22:33
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1992Oct15.001924.27434@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Oct16.125435.1199@latcs1.lat.oz.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au's message of 16 Oct 92 12:54:35 GMT


In article <1992Oct16.125435.1199@latcs1.lat.oz.au> woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>    But seriously, I am considering some explicit guidelines on how to
> behave in the Bi-Friendly Group, given that we have every sexuality
> represented (which could lead to a lot of "operand type mis-match"
> errors if people aren't sensitive).

Well, if they're bi-friendly, I would hope that they could deal with
polite propositions from people they are not attracted to, regardless of
gender.  (Perhaps I am being overly optimistic here, though.)  If so,
then the general politeness rules, like making sure someone doesn't
mind being touched (asking is always good...*smile*), watching
reactions, not cornering people, not grabbing (unless you know that they
would like that...*grin*), not assuming anyone or everyone is there to
find a partner, etc. would seem to be enough.

*Am* I overly optimistic?  Are bi-friendly people often upset by being
approached (nicely) by someone of the "wrong" sex?

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                               muffy@mica.berkeley.edu
~Weavers' fingers flying on the loom/patterns shift too fast to be
 discerned/all these years of thinking/ended up like this/in front
 of all this beauty/understanding nothing~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: For play (was Re: female v. male bisexuals.)
Date: 11 Oct 92 07:27:48 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
>
>> There's no longer
>> "that condom moment" problem when you've made talk part of your sexual
>> activity.
>
>Huh? I'm all for talk, but I don't see that it makes that condom moment
>disappear. If you discuss how much latex you're taking to bed with you |-),
>then you don't have the problem of enquiring at an inopportune moment if, um,
><blush>, mumble, it might not be a good idea, but there's still a point at
>which the latex has to be employed...

Two things; one, the "<blush>" factor is diminished if the subject
(nay, the object) has actually been aired ahead of time.  Two, I
just meant that some people encounter this moment as a "barrier"
of some kind, where they feel unwilling to risk killing the
oh-so-fragile moment with some words (or other communication).
If you're already adjusted to the (non-standard) idea that
talk and sex are quite happy bedfellows at times, then there can
be less of a problem with the change of pace involved in a change
of covering.

From a perspective of less goal orientation, the whole model of
a delicate urge or moment in need of protection seems a shade
ridiculous.  If y'can't communicate in your sex, what *are* you
doing in it?  Masturbating?  [General you, of course, T :-) ]
A phonecall or somesuch can wreck a mood, but adding a little
rubber _should_ be no more awkward than moving to a new
position: something unlikely to calm the fires, so long as no-one
slips a disk and you keep the communication open...

I feel a ramble coming on, an will quell it.  Methinks I'm saying
little here that's revelatory (as if I ever do.. *simper*).  You
cleaerly understood point one, and point two is (a) pretty clear
and (b) a generalization, and we all know about those.

Mike, in burble mode whilst in exile in a castle
-- 
Mike Lloyd                         | B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k(+) s m- e? 
Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and     | "The Trouble with Normal is it
owner of a one-track mind:         |  Always Gets Worse" - Bruce Cockburn
   "thesis .. thesis .. thesis"    |    (-:   F**k Your Gender!  :-)
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Two women please
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:18:20 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

>In article <1992Oct14.124615.203108@uctvax.uct.ac.za> krgjus01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

[BTW if you're female you might want to say so quickly since many assume 
 you're male.]

<mischievous grin>
(Dare I?  Dare I?  I simply cannot resist...)

>+I have always fantasised about having sex with two lesbians at once as I
>+think it must be the most amazing experience imaginable. 

Sure if you like being ignored...  Utterly and completely ignored...

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: My first Triangle
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:59:15 GMT

In article <1av5duINN5u9@smaug.West.Sun.COM> lorico@boomboom.Eng.Sun.COM (Lori Cotton) writes:
|And to answer someone's post (forget who it was so 1,000 apologies and hugs
|to you) regarding being part of a triangle in bed.  This is something I don't
|enjoy because 1) someone is always left out, 2) jealousy by the one left
|out is always a factor and 3) I'm a one person in bed person and I like
|to concentrate all my efforts on that one person.

   This, I suppose, depends on the people involved.  Having been in a few
of those situations, I've found that #'s 1 and 2 can vary: I've felt no
jealousy (and I am rather insecure about such matters) when I've been in
the role of (sweet and) innocent bystander, and in discussions with the
other participants(admittedly, this wasn't scientifically done, and I've
not polled everyone concerned), even in situations where they've had no
reason to sugarcoat anything, they've commented on the lack of jealous
feelings and just nice it was.  I also don't see there's quite so much
trouble with someone always being left out; the focus of attention tends
to naturally shift and reach points of minimum tension.

   There is a *wee slight chance I might be biased, though; the single
best sexual experience I ever had in my life was with a threesome, and
even if it's never repeated, it still is a really compelling reason to
try them again and again.

  david parsons
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Organization: Rational
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:40:56 GMT


For me it is simple.  I just look upon myself as the Virgin Ho.
Some days I'm virginal, and lose my virginity over and over.  Other
days I am a slut :-)  

The nice thing is it got me over the catholic madonna/whore paradox
that I was raised under.

Iseult.
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Date: 16 Oct 1992 08:54:22 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1bkdtbINN67@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer) writes:

->     Trust me -- it >is< quite possible for a male to be anal 
->passive with a female partner.  (fun, too)
-> 
->     (Side note:  I now be demuffined!)  :-)
-> 

*snuggle* *pounce* *huggle* *hug* *lick* and so on ...

Welcome! Oh, and don't forget the 
*nibble*


-- 
Roy S. Rapoport           rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
                   The few.  The proud.  The geeks.
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
From: rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: National Coming Out Day - A Promise to Myself
Date: 12 Oct 1992 09:38:44 GMT
Organization: Spineless Cowards Slowly Gaining Self-Confidence
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



Today in the spirit of National Coming Out Day I made a promise to
myself.  This promise was that I would "come out" to my best friend.
Unfortunately he lives in Southern California and I'm in school in
Northern California and I really feel that coming out to him is 
something I should really do in person rather than over the telephone.
So I am going to wait untill I go home on the weekend of Halloween
to see the U2 concert (with that friend, I'm still debating whether
to do it before the concert or the next day).  I'm pretty sure that
this friend is going to understand and be fairly supportive.  We have
had several conversations in the past about homosexuality and
bisexuality and I know that he is not homophopic.  But my biggest
fear is that he might start treating me differently and feel ackward
around me, or that the reason I'm telling him is because I'm attracted
to him.  Any words of advice from anyone who has handled any of those
problems before would be welcome.  

				Thanks,
					Robert

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert LeBeau--> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu
"witty quote goes here" -- some famous or obscure source
This space reserved for drawing using keyboard symbols
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Two women please
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:39:38 GMT
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.

In article <1992Oct14.124615.203108@uctvax.uct.ac.za> krgjus01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>I have always fantasised about having sex with two lesbians at once as I
>think it must be the most amazing experience imaginable. 
>
>To be in bed with two beautiful women at once would be a dream cum true
>so would anyone who has been lucky enough to have this experience please
>E-mail me with details (all the details!). 

I'm not sure if I've ever cost the net hundreds, if not thousands of
dollars to say just this.. but I will:  PISS OFF.


Creep.


--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au or s315948@parasol.cs.uq.oz.au (student account)
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Date: 16 Oct 1992 12:25:24 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct16.113031.9181@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

->>What's the emphasis on the 'strap-on' for? Why do they need to be strapped
->>on?
->
->You need to strap them dildos to something solid so that you don't lose
->them! <*slurp*>

That is _not_ funny, Ciaran!!

OK, well, it is ... it's just that a friend of mine told me about the time
he was masturbating with a vibrator and did, well, sort of lose it ...
Apparently it took over an hour for the batteries to die down, and about 24
hours to get it out ... right before he decided to go to the hospital.

If it wasn't for the anxiety, he said, it would have been quite a great
hour, also :)

Taught me one lesson: If I ever use a vibrator, I'll tie a string to it :)


-- 
Roy S. Rapoport           rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
                   The few.  The proud.  The geeks.
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Muffin Pops up in Bay Area
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:48:48 GMT


And so my old friend Alan, who has rather amazed me
over the last year, finally pops out of the oven...

Well.  I hope anyone who meets him in SF looks after
him properly, or I'll hit them with my handbag and no
mistake.

And that'll be *quite* enough from *you*, Toal...

Question.  How many heterosexuals are there left in the
Edinburgh CS department?  Not to mention its alumni?

--John
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:43:30 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer) wrote...
>     Trust me -- it >is< quite possible for a male to be anal 
>passive with a female partner.  (fun, too)
>     (Side note:  I now be demuffined!)  :-)

I like him!  I like him!  Can we keep him?  Can we?  Can we?
Plleeeeeeease?

(Welcome to soc.bi)
Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: I am not a bisexual!!!! 
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:00:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.165506.20044@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>But Iseult, what exactly does this mean?  I'm confused?
>
>- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu

I too, was confused.  I was wondering what you meant.  Could you explain
in more detail?

-James

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If I could only reach you/If I could make you smile
If I could only reach you/That would really be a breakthough
-Queen, "Breakthru"=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Change is GOOD!!!
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:37:19 GMT

In <Bvx3qy.7vr@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov
(Scott Dorsey) writes:
>Ciaran McHale writes:
>>PJS137@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>>Who's says that three is a crowd?  However it was probably never had the
>>>opportunity to really enjoy the experience. I feel that three way interaction
>>>is the ONLY way to go.  What do you think???????
>>
>>Any biblical number is likely to produce good results. [...]
>
>Biblical number?  I thought the important part was that it was prime.  This
>rules 40 out, but 41 and 37 are okay.

Hmmm... maybe it is Fibonacci numbers: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21...
This has a number of interesting possibilities. For example, the number
1 is repeated twice---preumably this is an endorsement for
masturbation. Also, can you imagine the headlines in a tabloid
newspaper...

	"New research suggests that innumerate people have boring sex lives"
	"_The Joy of Mathematics_ becomes overnight bestseller."


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Yay!
Date: 16 Oct 1992 06:40:03 GMT
Organization: The Banana Slug <-- what a mascot hmm...good for bi-sexuals
				Don't slugs have both female and male
				reproductive junk (you can tell i'm not
				a bio major)?
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Oct14.221401.2485@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>In article <Bw3st7.926@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>I'll shave myself, and with a wet razor.  Electric razors really chew up
>>my skin; and if you think I'm letting anyone come within arm's reach of
>>me with a potentially-lethal appliance... I can remember Iseult's posts :)
>
	I too prefer to shave with an actual razor as compared to an
electric.  While I have an electric razor that I use occassionally
it seems to take more time (but less effort).  The main thing I like
about a wet razor is the feel.  It also gives me a closer shave.

>
>>Of course, there are other bits to kiss that don't need shaving...

	This reminds me of a conversation I heard on the radio while
I was in LA.  It was on a program called "Love Line" on KROQ, and the\
guest was Paully Shore (that annoying guy from MTV) and the topic
of women shaving came up and he mentioned about guys triming their
pubic hairs.  And it started a small debate as to whether people
prefered "manacured"(sp) [was the term they used] as compared to
wild growth.
	It was really intersting to hear this being discussed on
the radio.

>
>Well - if hair worries you, then I would have thought that *all* the
>bits worth kissing would need shaving.
>
>--Clive.

	Hmm...I think I would like partcially shaven as compared to
totally or not at all shaven.  I say think because I really haven't
enough expierence to compare.

				Robert

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert LeBeau--> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu  (Trying to steal candy
					 from the fag at the next
					 terminal)
"witty quote goes here" -- some famous or obscure source
This space reserved for drawing using keyboard symbols
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rlebeau@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Eclipse)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Completely Missed a Slug
Date: 16 Oct 1992 20:34:30 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


Subject: post
Status: R


 
>ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer) wrote...
>>     (Side note:  I now be demuffined!)  :-)
>
> 
>     *blush* (slurp!)
> 
>     I think you got me here for good..  I like this newsgroup!  
>Definitely been having funky dreams since I started reading..
>:-)  Not that I mind.
>                                                      -- TTK
>B0 f- t+ w- g k s- m+ r- p-(++)

	Boy I sure missed this one when it was orginally posted.
Completely overlooked the address....its from Santa Cruz! Yea!

	Welcome TTK.   *nibble* *hugs* *kisses*

Of course you are using the right computer system when your
posting as compared to me who usually posts from cats because
b is so fucking slow, which means I'm miss using University
facilities.  Maybe I'll try and post this from b and see if
it works.

	It only took me 20 mintues to do a post I usually do
in 2 minutes but it worked (I hope).

				Robert

Robert LeBeau  rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu OR rlebeau@ucscb.ucsc.edu


(part of the problem is I can't seem to set the term type right
for using vi on this computer so I'm always totally lost.)

Newsgroups: soc.bi