HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu (Jon Leistiko)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:55:34 GMT
 <1992Nov22.130845.10714@syma.sussex.ac.uk> <98798@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

Greetings...
     I just started on a MUD recently... I searched it very thoroughly
  as a Guest before I created a character because it allowed PKing and
  I didn't want to get offed quickly... I eventually made a character
  and I was doing OK... I logged on the next day and a bozo offed me at
  1st level while I was getting ready to buy armour and weapons...
     The point? Player killing isn't that bad - _IF_ you restrict it to
  the higher levels... If you allow the ability to kill low-level newbies,
  then you'll get a few scumbags that only hunt them and you'll loose
  all of your "newblood".
     Just a few thoughts...
                           - JAL
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:1228 rec.games.mud.diku:876 rec.games.mud.lp:4202
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Date: 19 Nov 1992 07:24:26 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov18.232658.21525@athena.cs.uga.edu> stanton@athena.cs.uga.edu (Catherine Stanton) writes:
)
)He logged on and gossipped that he wanted to get a small group together, go
)"kill some things".  Another player, I am assuming equal to his level came
)up to him and said "Sure."  He grouped the other player and then led him out
)towards Arachnos.  There is a particular deathtrap around the entrance to
)Arachnos which he took him next to.  Then he said (Oh this is precious) "Can
)you go one west and retrieve my stuff from my corpse?"  Talk about COWARDLY!

I haven't played MUD in several months, for two reasons: one, the MUD
I used to play (fajita) went down, and two, I got really depressed about
how brain-dead MUD players are.  Stuff like this isn't playerkilling,
it's natural selection in action.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Death and its effects
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:50:07 GMT
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <1992Nov23.000812.26175@sol.UVic.CA> mmcalees@cs16.UVic.CA
(Michael McAleese) writes:

   In article <JAMIE.92Nov21201046@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:

   >environment or the character. On the other hand, permanent death could
   >be a little frustrating for some, and tragic for others.

     What about simply making it that "death is death". Depending on the level
   of seriousness in a monster's attitude/trap's lethality they might stop at
   wounding you into incapacitation (providing the combat system allowed this)
   but if you are killed that character is gone. Dead. History.
     It would sure make you more careful.  Appropriate for some themes, not
   for others.

Oh, I quite agree. However, I think that many people don't, and it is
to them that I directed this post, as a proposal that goes some way
towards realism, without providing too much frustration.

Actually, you bring up a good point with the word "history". That is
what many MUDs lack, it seems to me. Not just lack of history in the
world, but lack of history (or continuity if you will) in the players
that come and go. None of them make an impact on the world. If a
player stops logging in to a MUD, the only effect is that there is
more loot for the rest. To most characters, those powerful, high level
characters are just people who walk into a room you're in, and walk
straight through without stopping, off into an area where weaker
people fear to tread. These are the characters who should be famous,
renowned for their great deeds, for the fact that they slew the dragon
and found the Holy Grail.

Instead, that's something anyone can do, given patience. And, with
more patience, they can do it again and again. And the world never
changes to reflect that.

Jamie






Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: joverton@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (Jeremiah Overton)
Subject: Re: Ideas instead of 'wiz' level ??!
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:22:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.070534.19346@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>jneedles@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jack L Needles) writes:
>>Well, I've been planning, and designing, and even coding some aspects of
>>a role-playing LP <is that an Oxymoron> for about 6 months or so..
>>problem is, there just aren't sites for people to do work like this.
>>
>>I've designed guilds as secret societies with their own goals, help work
>>on economies, skill based non-exp designs, and quests which only exist
>>once in a given world.  Thing is, how many people are willing to play
>>one such as this?  And just how many wizards are going to have the
>>dedication to this type of mud?
>
>MEE!!!!!!!!!!!  god, ive been bugging the hell out of people to try
>and figure out why they didnt get tired of muds after a few days.  LP's
>are clunky, discontinuous, huge, and that reset should be removed.  Dikus
>are better, smoother, but most are just the same old stuff..
>
>You know what I want?  I want a good game system, something new.  I want
>one where guilds are social institutions.  I want one where gods grant
>their followers powers and set them against one another.  I want one
>where players keep their gear (no, not renting, always).  I want one
>where there are racial tensions, where one can always find some role-players
>prancing around mazes or making love in gardens or arguing like hell over
>coffee at the local tavern.  I want risk, and death, and hate, and love,
>and creativity, and magic, all wrapped up in a glorious bundle I call
>Gaming.  Something I see in muds about as often as solar eclipses.
>
>I want players to *NEVER* leave role except when helping newbies get
>started.  I want exp to never be talked about, a quest never called
>such, and other ways of advancement..  I would love to visit a game
>where Tall Tail's Night awarded a magic item to the winner!
>
>And you know..  Ive been on such a mud.  For money.  But it exists.
>I just want to know why the hell people are coding stupid fancy
>gadgets when they could be creating wonder in people's eyes.  I want
>my character to make enemies, friends, lovers..  All in the same hour.
>I want to save the town from an incursion of huge insects, or teleporting
>demons.  I want to heal my friends..

I want to play this mud :)

Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:1258 rec.games.mud.diku:891 rec.games.mud.lp:4214
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: address servers
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:12:36 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.misc
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>Anywa, if you have a MudOS driver you can send mail to characters on other
>MUDS and do remote fingers and tells to them. ie:

Huh?  I thought he was asking about "addr_server".  That is just
the same as the old "hname" server.  It looks up host names
for ip addresses (so that people command can show names instead
of numbers).
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu  --  Toy cows in Africa
From: formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Formula 409)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: MUD Players Input Needed (Please!)
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:19:38 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

Greetings MUD Players!

I am a MUD player myself, and I am doing a speech on computer games, including
MUDS.  I would be grateful to you if you would take about a minute to fill out
this short survey questionairre, and E-Mail it back to:
  formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu

Your help is greatly appreciated!

--------------------------------Just send this part-----------------------------

1. How many hours a week do you play MUD's?

2. What are your favorite types of MUD's (Diku, Tiny, etc...)?

3. How have MUD's affected your grades, if at all?

4. What themes for MUD's do you like the most?

5. What themes for MUD's would you like to see on the net in the future?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
********************************************************************************
*         Formula 409           *  |/   * |\ |\ |\ |\/ |   |  |\ | |\/| Bacon  *
* ============================= *  |/   * |< |\ |  |\/ \ o |> |\ \ |  |  Thane *
*  formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu  *  |    * |/ |  |  |   |   |  |  | |  | ====== *
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 15:51:15 -0500 
From: Adam Darby <ad2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ideas instead of 'wiz' level ??!
	<BxrqB4.GJ6@news.iastate.edu>

YES! YES! YES!
i want to know as soon as this mud opens...sounds like the best one i've
ever heard of so far.  
especially the town building part...


_______________________________________________________________________________
_
with love to lead the way,                     |Score|
i've found more clouds of grey,                |90.4%|
than any russian play could guarantee...       -------
___________________________________________    |adam darby              
if you like harry connick, jr.
you are cool...
                                               |purest being on earth   
                                                                    
                                               |(and sick of it)         
----------------------------------------| 
  the lines have no significance, they are beyond my control...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------                          
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: yduj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Judy Anderson)
Subject: Re: Does this type of mud exist?
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:37:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.011125.18754@sol.UVic.CA> mmcalees@cs16.UVic.CA (Michael McAleese) writes:
>Sorry if this is a FAQ, but,
>
>  Having recently been re-introduced to MUDs and MUSHs, I once again have
>come across the problem that I came across before, that the LPmuds and
>Dikus and so forth don't seem to have the capabilities for interaction 
>that MUSHs have, and MUSHs have a serious lack of drama without any sort
>of combat system.  Is there a mud system out there that combines the 
>features of MUSH with a well designed combat system?

Well, MOO enables you to write just about anything you want in
MOOcode, and provides the social features of MUSH.  LambdaMOO has a
combat system and a whole RPG area full of monsters to fight and
puzzles to solve as well as a large society fraught with all the
social problems that plague other social M*.  I can't really say
whether Lambda's combat system is well designed though.

       Judy Anderson yclept yduJ     'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
	      yduJ@symbolics.com      yduJ on LambdaMOO
	LambdaMOO is lambda.parc.xerox.com [13.2.116.36] 8888
    Join the League for Programming Freedom, league@prep.ai.mit.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: TINT for VMS/Multi-Net
Keywords: tint vms multinet mud client
Organization: Foxes 'R' Us - Seven locations to serve you
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:43:38 GMT

I am looking for a version of the VMS client "TINT" which can be
compiled and run on a Multi-Net TCP/IP system.  Archie was no help at
all in locating this, and when I looked on piggy.ucsb.edu, all I found
was TINT for the Wollongong TCP implementation.  So where should I look
now?

-- 
#ifdef TRUE         | Fuzzy Fox                  fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0   | a.k.a. David DeSimone      an207@cleveland.freenet.edu
#define  FALSE  1   | "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif              |    the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
From: ssurpeat@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk (Richard T Peat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Crossposting (was Re: MasqueMUCK...)
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:11:14 GMT
Reply-To: ssurpeat@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., University of Reading

In article 7723@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu, jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mr. Furr) writes:
>In article <1e1klaINNdgj@agate.berkeley.edu> alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Schwartz) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Nov14.001957.18610@fcom.cc.utah.edu> holmbeck@cs.weber.edu (Holmbeck) writes, in re: jfurr's MasqueMUCK posts:
>>>We rreeeeeeaallly need this posted a bazillion times to as 
>>> many boards as possible.  especially the diku's and lp's...
>>
>>Setting aside the issue of which groups to post to, I have noticed 
>>that the MasqueMUCK posts do appear in my newsreader in each group,
>>which suggests that they are being posted singly to each group,
>>rather than crossposted, as netiquette suggests.
>>
>>Of course, Joel may have some reason for this (though I can't imagine
>>why. Wouldn't make me more likely to visit MasqueMUCK. *shrug*), and
>>it could be that his Pnews doesn't allow him to crosspost (icky).
>
>I used to used to not be able to crosspost.  Then I got a Nyx account. 
>Now I crosspost. 
>
>Have a nice day.


Just because you are able to crosspost, it doesn't mean you have to. It's bloody
iratating when the MasqueMUCK stuff appears in the diku and LP sections, it's
just wasting everyones time and free space.

Just THINK before you post to all and sundry.
From: decker@merlin.etsu.edu (Brandon Emerson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Cyberworld
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:32:05 GMT
Organization: East Texas State University, Commerce, Texas


*sigh*  Well I had to shut down again temporarily.  Sorry.
There is some bug either in the mudlib or the driver which has been
causing the game to crash.  I downloaded the latest version of MudOS
so I wanna give it a test shot before I re-open.  It won't be a long
wait like last time..give it a day.  Thanx and I apologize.

/Decker
From: jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:09:58 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


It's funny, but in the 10 months since Genesis reopened we have only had a
handful of player killings. The reaction afterwards has in most cases
been " Ooops, sorry, I thought you were a monster".

Players are usually happy to make friends when they are introduced to other
players. It's the only way to keep in contact with others. :-)


Jacob Hallen
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: CarnageMud
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:40:16 GMT

bla@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Basilius Arvanitis) writes:


>			     Announcing

>                                            __
>               /      \                    /  \
>               \  /\  /                   |
>                \/  \/  O R L D S   O F    \__/ A R N A G E

>		  A fantasy world of travail and triumph!

>		   bigguy.eng.ufl.edu	128.227.116.14


>		Created by Robbie Rogers and Aaron Buhr based
> 	 on the DIKUMUD v.1 source code by Hans Henrick Staerfeldt, 
>       Katja Nyboe, Tom Madsen, Michael  Seirfert, and Sebastian Hammer

>CRASH PROTECTION:  

     What MUD _doesn't_ have this?

>GUILDS:

     What's so unique about that?  Even if you just make a title command,
players will invariably for their own little groups with exclusive
membership.  Actually putting it into the code is a good idea, but doesn't
exactly qualify your MUD as being "rewritten from the ground up."

>NPC/PC INTERACTION:

     I tried this and I couldn't provoke a meaningful answer from any NPCs
I met up with.  The only way you could do this usefully would be using an
AI program, scanning for certain keywords, direct objects, etc.  You'd
have to write an English parser (and a linked list for the memory of
every NPC) for this to actually be worth anything.  It would be an
interesting feat though, if NPCs would attack players who sat around
plotting the NPC's death.

>PRACTICING AND GUILDMASTERS:

     I don't see how making guildmasters wander around would be a problem.

>MAIL SYSTEM:

     Nice, but still not unique.

>REAL NAMES:

     What's the point of this?  Anonymity is one of the few things I _must_
have when I play a MUD, that is, if I don't want some jock whose character
I killed showing up at my door and slugging me in the stomach.  If someone
wants his name known, the person is always free to tell it.

>SCALED RENT:

     A nice idea, but still not "rewritten."



     I don't know about anyone else, but I would be angry as shit if I
participated in the creation of DikuMUD only to have someone make a few
minor changes and claim to have "rewritten [it] from the ground up."
If anyone modifies something I write, I'd prefer not to have that
person claim they "created" it and that they based it upon my original
version.  I've made some of these same claims about the MUD I
run (Armageddon), but at least I _have_ rewritten a good chunk
of it (about 60% of the code is written by me).  The modifications
you've made are great, but please don't claim to have written
the entire MUD by yourselves.

-Jhalavar-
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:51:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.095226.5639@news.unomaha.edu>
dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf) writes:

   Well, I'm noticing an interesting trend here.

   So far, since my original posting, EVERY response has been from someone who
   either (a) opposes player killing or (b) supports player killing only among
   relatively equally-powerful characters or in cases where there is
   clear CAUSE for the "execution".

Given the right environment, I support player killing unequivocally.

   I know there are players out there who enjoy pkilling simply for the sake of
   pkilling, and who don't give a damn if they have a "reason" to kill
   someone or not.

Well, I'm not one, but that's through personal preference rather than
any thought that it's wrong.

   To them I issue the following challenge:

   Speak up.  Stop hiding behind anonymity.  Defend your choice of "playing
   style" publicly.

I suppose I should say that with a level-based system with increasing
hp etc., then perhaps this "playing style" is less justifiable.
However, in those games where it is skill and equipment alone that
have a bearing on a fight, then it is easy to defend. Characters can
kill monsters without any qualms; there is no reason why they should
not be able to kill characters (they certainly don't kill players!)
with equal ease. Without the benefit of increasing hp, this sort of
activity becomes properly dangerous, and a killer confronted with more
than one opponent, even of lesser skill and poorer equipment, can be
in real trouble.

As to *why* anyone would play like this; that's just like asking why
anyone would play in any particular style. I imagine it would be quite
an ego-boost to be able to kill other characters; other than that, I
can't imagine.

Jamie
From: priss@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: AnimeMUCK is calling back its Builders
Summary: AnimeMUCK is back up for Builders
Keywords: AnimeMUCK
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:24:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: glia.priss.722071467
Organization: University of Washington


AnimeMUCK is back up at a new site, however, right now, we need the Builders
who were on it to come back on-line and finish their work!  We got streets
with nothing on them!!!  So mail in your USERID and I'll give you the new
location.  For you other AnimeFans, watch this spot!  AnimeMUCK will be
opening as soon as I grab the Builders and set them to work (Yes, I am one of
those slave drivers. :) )  You can get a hold of me at the following Address:
 
priss@glia.biostr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp
From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang)
Subject: Re: address servers
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:32:49 GMT

As a matter of fact, Vincent's Hollow. Legends, TMI, and slew of beta
test sites use the same address server.  And we have not encountered
any difficulties on that yet.  :)  (keyword is on "yet" ;)

-michael
 Vincent's Hollow

-- 
Michael Ming-Yang Huang                                  michael@iastate.edu
Carver/Vis Lab Comp Assist                     michael@denali.me.iastate.edu 
PV Student Dev Group             "A MIND is such a terrible thing to waste."
Iowa State Univ, Ames, IA       Any opinon stated in this post is of my own.
From: alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Does this type of mud exist?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 03:02:05 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <GREGB.92Nov16195655@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu> gregb@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Snooze) writes:
>
>As far as combat systems go...people are talking about writing it into MUSH,
>which in my eyes seems kinda baked.  Especially when you could take something
>like a Moo or Cool and give people the building capabilities along with
>being programmable
>
>Especially since I would think MUSH would start to get slow if you
>started to create a combat system within it.  And MUSH really wasn't
>designed for that I don't think. (personal opinion...but MUSH seems
>to be too kludgy for anything really large scale).  Some of the combat
>onLPs and dikus is just about not doable in a MUSH...and that
>seems like much more interesting combat.

Snooze, give me Annalyn@Pern and Belgarath@Belgariad II and I'll write a MUSH
combat system that mimics an LP or Diku. I can't think of much that is not
doable. In fact, if I ever get the time, I've thought more than once about
putting together a mush database set up with Diku Midgaard and the appropriate
functionality to emulate a Diku-mud. 

Sure, its better to use LP or Diku code for combat muds. It's always better to
have combat set up in the source code than in the internal interpreted 
language. But, as I enjoy the other features which MUSH provides and find
them conducive to world-building, I'm willing to keep at MUSH combat
systems.

MOO is a great way to go for this kinda thing, too, IMHO. Coolmud sounds like
fun. I'll have to take a look. :)

 - Alan

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Paul@DuneMUSH (Coming soon!)  |          Alan Schwartz         
Belkira@Belgariad II             | alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu
 Indena@Mua'kaar                 | UC Berkeley                        
Javelin@Belgariad, and elsewhere | Cognitive Psychology        
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: mohrc@CS.ORST.EDU (Craig Mohr)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: address servers
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:00:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1eiui5INNdgm
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.lp,rec.games.mud.misc
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <michael.722266369@pv0235.vincent.iastate.edu> michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:
>As a matter of fact, Vincent's Hollow. Legends, TMI, and slew of beta
>test sites use the same address server.  And we have not encountered
>any difficulties on that yet.  :)  (keyword is on "yet" ;)

Why is a ton of junk about LP's being posted in rec.games.mud.diku ?
We seperated these groups so that people didnt have to page through
stuff about muds they dont want to hear about.

>
>-michael
> Vincent's Hollow
>
>-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud
From: s442223@nexus.yorku.ca (Chaos)
Subject: To All GodNet Programmers
Organization: York University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:01:17 GMT

If you were a programmer on GodNet, please contact me.


-- 
Chaos is s442223@nexus.yorku.ca - only virtual in appearance, naked eyes cannot
Chaos is also N'vrekh Ianu tr'Fnavh ... go figger. Call him mud adminstrator 
for GodNet/Final Frontier. Hey whatever. The look. Get it. da da da. Bored yet?
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp