HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms Violin Concerto
Date: 15 Nov 92 19:44:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov15.194414.29097
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <1992Nov15.153350.9061@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
# Can anyone out there recommend a really passionate performance of the Brahms
# Violin Concerto.
[...]
# Also, a friend whose musical opinion I respect says Anna-Sophie Mutter's with
# von Karajan on DG is disappointing as well.  I thought that would be 
# definitive.

Try listening to the Mutter/Karajan for yourself, it's my favorite modern
version.  She might come off as a bit cold for your taste however.  Plus
it's kind of a ripoff at full price for 40+ minutes.

My favorite recording as a whole, however, is Menuhin/Furtwaengler on EMI.
It's coupled with the Brahms double.  Menuhin plays the Kriesler cadenzas,
which I like, and of course qualifies as 'really passionate.'  It's in
mono, from the 50s.  Menuhin also rerecorded it in stereo with Kempe and
the BPO.  That should be available at budget price from EMI.

Avoid Salerno-Sonnenberg and _especially_ Nigel.  Playing the first
movement at a funereal pace is hardly necessary for passion.
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Why not a rec.music.contemp group?
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:17:23 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

Why not indeed? After all, early-musickers have been segregated 
into rec.music.early.  Am I the only one who has little interest
in contemporary music (say, post-1945), and who is at wits' end
to devise an appropriate kill file? Next to /excalibur/j
and /haikovsk/j, I already have /cage/j, /4'33''/j, /glass/j, /berio/j, 
etc, but the kill file is getting long and involved, and netters are 
always coming up with stealth subject lines.

No offense intended, this is a naive, non-partisan question.

-- 

	Francois Velde
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: Adagio for Strings
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:40:35 GMT

In article <BxyJsL.D5J@cs.columbia.edu> tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.162041.16617@midway.uchicago.edu>
>hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Yes, there are many. IMHO the best orchestrated version (as opposed to the 
>>piece as a part of Barber's String Quartet) is Bernstein's recording with 
>>the LA Philharmonic on Deutsche Grammophon.
>
>I agree; it's a tragic and moving interpretation.
>
>>The tempo of the recording on the Platoon is taken way too fast.
>
>Well, keep in mind that Bernstein's recording is unusually slow.
>Does ANYONE else's version last more than 10 minutes?  Toscanini
>took 6 or 7 minutes!

Slatkins' recording on EMI is slow and very good,alot better and slower then his 
Telarc releise a few years earlyer.Cant' tell you the exact length since im' not
at home.

john
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Name that Opera
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:30:55 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

  Hey, I hope this is not a FAQ!  I swear I don't think it's on the list.
Anyway, since my knowledge of opera is limited to Wagner, Mozart, and Beethoven,
I will have to flaunt my ignorance of the Italians in public...

What is the opera featured at the end of 'The Godfather, III' ???

Thanks,

  I just bought Verdi's 'Otello' a few days ago, with Domingo/Maazel.  It sort
of blew me away.  I was expecting fluffy, irritating, mindless bel canto, etc...
Instead I found some of the most beautiful, original, and profound music I
have ever heard.  Wow.  While I still think of Wagner as the greatest, I think
I can really come to love this music.  Has anyone else had the same experience,
i.e., finding Verdi after finding Wagner and being very pleasantly suprised?

  Also, I have noticed that Otello and Tristan und Isolde have many musical
similarities.   Anyone else notice this?

Mike Hurben

		     "There is no music without ideology." - Shostakovich
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Musicians rubbishing composers
Keywords: Wagner/Rossini
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:33:54 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

Here's another good one:

"One can't judge Wagner's opera _Lohengrin_ after a first hearing, and I
certainly don't intend hearing it a second time."    - Rossini

Then there's the job Humperdinck did on himself:

"At first I thought I should be a second Beethoven; presently I found that to 
be another Schubert would be good; then, gradually, satisfied with less and 
less, I was resigned to be a Humperdinck."
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven Symphonies / Szell
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:41:40 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Okay, I have to chip in, if only because I invested in Szell's 9th.  :-(
I thought it was ratty, brutal, and totally lacking in sensitivity.  I know 
Beethoven isn't supposed to sound like Rachmaninoff, but this was gruff stuff.

I liked his 8th, however.  Tight, maybe a little *too* tight, but good over all.

Just my nickel.

John
zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Tubas (was Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas))
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:23:01 GMT

In article <DBROOKS.92Nov18231921@penge.osf.org>, dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:
> 
> > I still think that 'euphonia' is more euphemistic.

Why would you want a euphemism for "tuba"?

> > By the way,
> > what the plural of 'tuba'?  'Tubae'?
> 
> The Italian plural, Tube.

If you feel like sounding pretentious. (Something I know David would
never want to do.) English happens to have borrowed the word directly
from Italian without anglicizing it (what would you do, anyway?
"tube", "tubes"?), and the *English* plural is "tubas".

> Surprisingly, the tuba is one of the few
> feminine instruments -- um, perhaps it isn't so surprising, considering its
> players are mostly men, and what they do with it.

Watch it, fella, that water is hotter than it looks.

> 
> Others: viola, arpa, tromba (trumpet), and some of the battery (cassa,
> campana, castagnetta, frustra).

What's a "frustra"?

> You don't score a viola solo; it's a sola.

Oh, right. How could I forget? (Of course, there are those who claim
that you don't score a viola alone under any name if you know what's
good for you; I'm not one of them, mind you.)
From: hapka-christopher@yale.edu (Christopher Hapka)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Current Favorites (was: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms))
Date: 19 Nov 1992 16:14:10 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu


>This leads to a corollary thread. What do current composers who
>subscribe to r.m.c like in current composition? I like Arnold, Simpson,
>Sculthorpe, Sallinen, Lloyd, Part, Schnittke, Lygeti, Xennakis,
>Williamson, Dreyfuss, Hovhaness, Rautavaara, Vine (to name but a few).
>
>Anyone else brave enough to nail their colours to the mast?

Lutoslawski and Gorecki.  Anyone who hasn't heard Gorecki's
third symphony (esp. the new version with Dawn Upshaw) should.
Particularly if you don't think you like contemporary music.

Also, as a singer, I want to mention John Adams.  Although he
may not be the best composer from all points of view, his vocal
writing is teriffic.  Singers out there may know what I mean-
he writes lines that are just fun to sing, and that fit voices well.
From: norton@cco.caltech.edu (Olin Perry Norton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tallis Scholars concert in Birmingham, AL ?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 14:03:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu
Summary: Request for concert information.

My December 1992 issue of "The Atlantic" (Vol. 270, No. 6)
contains an advertising insert titled "Arts and Entertainment Preview",
which contains some short blurbs on music, film, dance, etc.
in addition to automobile ads from Chrysler.

The pages in this section are not numbered, but on what would
be page 43 there is a short article titled "Sounds of the
Renaissance Revisited" which is about the Tallis Scholars.

This article says: " Their current tour includes dates in
Stanford, Seattle, Birmingham, Nashville, New York, Boston,
and Toronto. "

I am assuming that this is Birmingham, Alabama.

The next question is: " When and where is this concert,
and where do I get tickets ? "
(Well, maybe that's two or three questions.)

I would love to see the Tallis Scholars in concert,
so I would greatly appreciate any help that anyone
could give me.

If I just knew where the concert was (some civic
auditorium? at one of the area colleges?)
then I could call information and get the box office number.

Thanks in advance,

-Perry Norton


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: re: Bernard Shaw quotes
Organization: Visual
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:00:11 GMT


Robert Parsons writes:

>> From my own memory:
>> Chopin had little regard for Beethoven's and Schumann's piano music.


Roger Lustig writes:

>Chopin *did* like the Moonlight Sonata.  To see exactly how much,
>read Ernst Oster's analysis of the Fantaisie-Impromptu.


Well, I can say this much to vouch for that: in the last movement of
the Moonlight, in the coda, that descending figure after the long 
chromatic scale in the right hand feels *incredibly* like something
right out of the Fantasie-Impromptu.  (Although, of course, the "borrow"
would have happened the other way around.)

Rob

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rons@ellis.uchicago.edu (Josh Ronsen)
Subject: Re: Cage's 4'33"
Reply-To: rons@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:42:51 GMT

In article <b-grant-121192171336@amac157.acns.nwu.edu> b-grant@nwu.edu
(Barry Grant) writes:

>The Hat art recording consists of 4' 33" of
>rather horrible electronic noise. The rest of the pieces on the CD are
>great, but the 4" 33" makes me want to rip my ears off.
>

	I think the elctronic "realization" of Cage's 4 feet 33 inches
is rather a fine piece of music, as good if not better than Lou Reed's
"Metal Machine Music" (an album composed of nothing but amplifiers
buzzing, no real instruments) or anything by Mertzbow and similar
"noise" oriented music groups. I found this version of 4'33" very
soothing to listen to, and I much liked following the two high pitched
tones over the general buzz. This is truly a fine piece of music.

	The other interesting thing about the Hat disk, is that the
five other "timed" pieces, 45' for a speaker, 29'X.YYYYY" for a piano,
(I can't remember the numbers), another piano pice, a percussion
piece, and a string piece, are all done at the same time. If it was
anything but Cage, I would say that they were being cheap with space,
but it does and a new dimension to all of the works (as if that is
what they need).

	Regards,

	Josh Ronsen
	rons@midway.uchicago.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: NEW THOUGHTS ON SUPERTITLING?
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:55:34 EST

In article <BxtI9r.DKq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:

>This weekend we went to see the Indiana University
>production of Falstaff. A mighty nice performance, I might
>add, with IU-graduate, recently of Christopher Columbus
>fame, Timothy Noble as Falstaff. Anyhow, this was
>supertitled. 

I heard Timothy Noble sing Amonasro last year at the Met.  He did a really
beautiful job.  Nice to hear he has a curve ball too.

>Are supertitles then a bad thing in operas when audience
>reactions are loudly expressed? Most comic ones that is.
>Or should we feel free to tap them on the shoulder and ask
>them to wait for the actual lines and action? I wonder if 
>the performers feel disoriented by this phase-lag?

One of the skills I have found most important to master in attending live
performances, especially opera, is to ignore the goings-on of the audience.
My favorite sound to ignore is the slowly-unwrapped cough drop -- you know,
the one that takes about 10 minutes of crinkly noise to make it from purse
to mouth.  The most painful is the loud whine of the cranked-up hearing aid
that emanates from everywhere and nowhere.

Supertitles that are not well-timed to the stage are just not well-timed.
Supertitles have a lot of potential problems, and I think as stories like
yours build up a history, we will get better at doing them.

Worse than mis-timed laughing is laughing when you're supposed to be
crying.  I don't know anymore if this story is true, but the story goes
that Eva Marton once insisted the surtitles be turned off during a Tosca
perforfmance in Chicago after the title got a laugh as she was bending over
the dead Scarpia.  I've read some performers' comments that they prefer
surtitles because the audience has at least a clue.

All that intelligent discussion from last month to one side, let's face it:
They ain't going away any time soon.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: re "Re Mozart Recommendations"
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:00:23 GMT

Karl Leister is a wonderful clarinettist with a sound to die for. His 
recording of the Mozart is gorgeous. I'm less happy with his Brahms 
Quintet, which is a little too staid in the fiery bits.


r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: Re: Soler sonatas:reccomendations?
Keywords: Soler sonatas
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:01:55 GMT

David Schrader (out of Chicago) has two CDs of Soler, with wonderful, fiery
playing. Unfortunately, they are on an obscure label called Cedille (yes, as in
the little tail on the letter c). I think Ton Koopman has recorded some Soler,
and also Scott Ross. Rafael Puyana has a recent Soler disk or two on
L'Oiseau-Lyre. I haven't heard his playing in recent years, or if he is now using
instruments built on historical models (instead of the dead-sounding "modern"
ones he started out on).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: Re: notation of accidentals [?]
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:34:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.161636.17612@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.021846.22259@Princeton.EDU>
>roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>:
>:>I've always considered the notation of accidentals
>:>in the presence of a clef signature was unnatural...
>:
>:>The natural notation should be (to me) _relative_
>:>to the accidental at the clef, that is if the note
>:>is # at the clef then # --> x, natural --> # and
>:>b --> natural, if the note is b at the clef then
>:># --> natural, natural --> flat and b --> bb, and
>:>so on...
>:
>:There's a certain logic to that idea, [...]
>:
>:[and a summary of the early history of the # and b]
>:
>:History happens...
>
>In more recent history one does actually find notation
>something like Jacob suggested, of which traces remain
>even in the music of J.S.Bach.  For instance, in G major
>an "Fb" might mean F-natural, the flat serving to cancel
>the signature's sharp; in a more distant sharp key,
>say C# minor, one might see "F#" meaning Fx, with the
>accidental # doubling the one in the key signature.

This _is_ exactly what I'm saying. Where is this notation used?

Jacob
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: altizer@iam.unibe.ch (Robert Altizer)
Subject: Re: Name that Opera
Reply-To: altizer@iam.unibe.ch
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:03:26 GMT

In article 50452@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>  Hey, I hope this is not a FAQ!  I swear I don't think it's on the list.
>Anyway, since my knowledge of opera is limited to Wagner, Mozart, and Beethoven,
>I will have to flaunt my ignorance of the Italians in public...
>
>What is the opera featured at the end of 'The Godfather, III' ???
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Hurben
>

It's Leoncavallo's "Cavalleria Rusticana" (trans: Rustic Chivalry), which is
set in Sicily on Easter Day, featuring a vendetta over a woman.  The ear biting,
which occurs in both the movie and the opera, is a Sicilian gesture.  By the
way, the scenes in the opera are played out of order for the movie's sake.

-- BOb


---
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#      Robert Altizer - Motorola ASIC Software Quality Assurance       #
#  1300 North Alma School Road, M/S CH240, Chandler AZ 85224-8517 USA  #
#             Voice: (602) 821-4249 -- FAX: (602) 821-4167             #
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#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#   Nature has neither kernel nor shell, she is everything at once.    #
#                                   -- Goethe                          #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Subject: Re: Tuba
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:48:00 GMT

In article <Bxv3uC.JBv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:
>Some wierdo composer wrote a Tuba concerto. Anybody know
>who he was and what he called it.
>(Anyone says "tubby the tuba" and I scream OK)

I think several weirdo composers did.

Didn't Ralph Vaughan Williams write one? He was as tubby as a tuba anyways.

David


--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Albuquerque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u)
Subject: Re: The worst composer ever
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:56:27 GMT

Well, I know one composer who is always being put down, but who I think is
actually not half-bad: PDQ Bach. :-)

Or is it Peter Schickele (sp)? His spoof of "A Little Music" is hilarious,
but it also has some musically interesting ideas. I never thought the
third movement could be played simultaneously with "Take Me Out To The
Ball Game! :-)

-- 
Ken Breadner          |Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Canada
brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca |"Life is what happens when you're busy making other
(the BREADbox...)     |plans" --John Lennon
Disclaimer: you mean somebody's taking something I said SERIOUSLY?
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Date: 23 Nov 1992 12:58:20 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

haus der luge (al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca) wrote:
: Dear Mr Pigott (note the upper cases!):
: I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities.
Apology magnanimously accepted. (That's me - delicate but sensible).

"Be eloquent in praise 
Of the very dull old days 
That have long since passed away,
And convince them if you can
That the reign of good Queen Anne
Was Culture's balmiest day.
Of course you will pooh-pooh
Whatever's fresh and new
And declare that it's crude and mean
For Art stopped short
In the cultivated court
Of the Empress Josephine.
And everyone will say
As you walk you cultured {?} way
If it's not good enough for him which is good enough for me
Why what a most sensitive kind of youth this kind of youth must be"

I've never been compared to Bunthorne before. Thanks for the compliment!

: I do apologize if you, with your obviously superior intellect to mine, 

Well, for once we're in total agreement.

: By the way, your curious historical revisionist message on the creation 
: of 4'33'' was interesting, but obviously far more profound than anything 
: I could have said, as I could not completely come to understand your 
: point you were trying to make from it.  A very odd way of discussing a 
: work I must say.  Please Diarmuid, tell us the one about Mahler writing 
: the fourth symphony while he was on a flying saucer, if you will.

I don't have to: Ken Russel already did! :-)

: hausderluge (not the capitals!) [sic]
: 
(I thought it was bad taste to point out typos. But then, we agree, I
quite sensitive to matters of form.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: MOZART HELP PLEASE!
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:26:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.165456.222@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <7536.382.uupcb@travel.com> brad.dekoter@travel.com (Brad Dekoter)  writes:

>>1. What year did Mozart die? 

>1791

>>2. What is the largest selling classical recording in history? 

>I believe it is Switched-On Bach

>>3. Who wrote the "Elvira Madigan" theme? 

>I don't know the theme, so I can't help you here.

Mozart.  It's the slow mvt. of K.467.  Who played it?  Geza Anda, I think.

btw, Brad, #1 you could have found in any unabridged dictionary...

Roger
>
>
>--
>Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
>gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
>N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
>72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Batons in period orchestras (was Re: More Haydn)
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:11:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.201155.6540@athena.mit.edu> ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway) writes:
>
>Do any of you historians of the 19th century orchestras know when groups like the
>Gewandhaus started having conductors in front of them?

Didn't Hans von Bulow start this in Germany?


-- 

	Francois Velde