From: mlee@esd.dl.nec.com (Michael Lee)
Subject: Re: Our constitution and politics.
Organization: NEC America, Engineering & Support
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:14:28 GMT

From article <Btxpn0.GEJ@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, by dev@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Weeks):
> tierney@nevada.edu (TIM TIERNEY) once wrote: 
>> dev@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Weeks) once wrote:
>>> It embodies the concept that government is created by man, and it
>>> derives its power from the governed. Democracy. Government does not
>>                                       ^^^^^^^^^ 
>> Most of your assertions I agree with, however, the United States is
>> not a Democracy.  It is a Republic incorporating *some* democratic
>> principles.  There is a *big* difference.  Publius, in the
>> Federalist Papers, decries that pure Democracy cannot and will not
>> ever provide a stable form of government.
> 
> I tend to disagree. Demos are the people, and cracy is a form of
> government. Democracy means government either by the people or
> authorized by the people, or more precisely, sovereignty is possessed
> by the people. We practice representative democracy, with
> the government deriving its power from the sovereignty of the people.
> The Greeks practiced both direct democracy in what we call the
> city-states, and representative democracy in the leagues binding the
> city-states for military and political purposes.
> 
> I suppose it is all a matter of definition. If you narrowly define
> democracy to be direct democracy, then we don't have a democracy.
> However, I define democracy to be sovereignty vested in the people,
> who happen to grant their governing power to representatives in our
> system.
> 
> Larry
> --
> Larry Weeks        | "The American Republic will endure, until
> dev@ecn.purdue.edu |  politicians realize they can bribe the people
> -------------------+  with their own money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville
> "The truly ignorant +-------------------------------------------------
>  in our society are those people who would throw away the parts of
>  the Constitution they find inconvenient." 

I do not disagree with your latin definition of Democracy, but you may be
interested in the following alternate point of view:

The previous poster was talking about a particularly dangerous form of
democracy - mobocracy.

It is what Alexis de Tocqueville was referring to in your signature.

It is also what some other philosopher (I forget who) meant when he said:

"The only trouble with a Republic is that it decays into Democracy and the
only trouble with Democracy is that it decays into Socialism."

Some have defined a Republic to be a "limited Democracy".  It is limited in
the sense that the majority cannot do anything it wants to the minority.
The majority must respect the rights of the minority.

That is the major feature of a Republic that distinguishes it from
Democracy or Mobocracy.

Certainly, as the original poster said, a Republic uses Democratic
electoral process, but it differs in the powers of the government.

In a Republic, the government has no right to do something collectively
that an individual cannot do.  For example, it is not right for an individual
to force another to give some of his/her property to the first individual.
So, a collection of voters cannot morally get a government to take
someone's property either.

In a Democracy (Mobocracy), the voters who win elections believe
that their rights can be cumulative such that 100 voters in the majority
can take property from the minority who lost the vote.

What one man cannot do morally, a million men cannot do morally;
and government (the agent of men) cannot do morally.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
It is often stated (and certainly true) that the poor have no right
to the wealth of the rich.  It is seldom stated (but equally true)
that the rich have no right to the wealth of the poor.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I prefer a small government which may permit some evil to
a large government which promotes evil at my expense.
---------------------------------------------------------

Michael Lee
mlee@esd.dl.nec.com
214-518-3807
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:11677 talk.politics.misc:42196 alt.politics.bush:3083 alt.politics.clinton:3151