From: mayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,rec.scouting
Subject: Re: another greeting
Date: 3 Apr 92 14:20:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: mailer.1992Apr3.092005.18727
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1992Apr02.192817.19169@CS.ORST.EDU> johnh@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Holeman) writes:
>
>   I am going to make some observations here that will probably draw quite a 
>flames...

It certainly calls for some corrections. You may regard them as flames if
you wish. But let's try for a civil discussion.

>It should be obvious that a homosexual couple cannot bear children, so in 
>order for this gene to be passed on to another generation, a person must go
>against his/her tastes in sexual partners, otherwise, the gene would not be
>passed on.  If it isn't passed on, then it must be a characteristic which will
>eventually be eliminated by natural selection.

Have your ever heard of recessive genes? There are many genetic defects
(and I am not saying that homosexuality is a defect) which prevent an
individual from reproducing, often because the victims don't survive long
enough, yet have not been eliminated by natural selection. Very few if
any victims of cystic fibrosis or muscular distrophy reproduce. Are you
suggesting that cystic fibrosis and muscular distrophy result from
either invironment or a conscious choice? Since others have already
dismissed this rubbish I'll pass on to other topics.

>...  If an organization wants to believe that their members represent
>the best stock of our species, then it is apparent that they should have the 
>right to not accept flawed specimens.

Well I am happy to say that when I was a scout we weren't taught that
scouts were an elite group of superior individuals. It was intended to
help us be the best that we could be. We certainly weren't taught to
look down on others as flawed specimens.

This "best stock of our species" stuff reminds me of the "superior race"
propoganda which has done so much harm. I don't think things are so bad
that the BSA should be compared to the Hitler Youth.

In fact, except for a few specific things like atheism or homosexuality,
scouting tries to accept and accomodate almost anyone who wants to join,
as is sensible for an organization which wants to promote its values
widely. It isn't out to select those who are already the best.

I think it is you who misunderstand scouting, even though you are
an Eagle scout. The atheist boys who refused to lie in order to be
accepted, and those who have been refused the rank of Eagle because
of their beliefs, were better examples of scouting than the scouts who
harassed them, the leaders who discriminated, or those arrogantly
asserting that they represent the "best stock of our species".

>If this is not the case then there must be some enviromental cause if homo-
>sexuality and the people who claim they had no choice in the matter are wrong.
>They must have chosen at some point in life.

I feel certain that I did not chose to be hetersexual, and I see no reason
to assume that homosexuals had any more choice in their orientation than
I did. Even if sexaul orientation is a choice who is to say that one choice
is right for everyone?

Bill Mayne