HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (douglas.p.linden)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Re: Old car prices (was: Re: re: 1956 Mercury Information)
Keywords: mercury
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:38:55 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Oct15.203833.28316@mcnc.org>, brooks@mcnc.org (Ted Brooks) writes:
> In article <hennie.23.0@nuustak.csir.co.za> hennie@nuustak.csir.co.za (Hennie Rautenbach) writes:
> >Hi
> >How I wish I could obtain such a book here in South Africa. Prices on 
> >classic cars are thumb-sucked here in most cases. I'm a fins and chrome 
> >fanatic but these cars (55 to 61) are extremely rare to come by. Only a few 
> >US cars were produced locally during that period. The most popular 
> >collectors items of that period is most definitely Chevy's, especially the 
> >57 Bel Air and the 59 Bel Air and Impala. 
> >
> >What would the value in US $ be of a restored 57 Bel Air Sport Coupe and a 4 
> >door with the stovebolt six ? Are they fairly common there ?
> >
> '55-57 Chevys are fairly easy to come by here. They're so easy, that up until
> until the past couple years, the 4 door sedans were often considered little
> more than rolling parts donors for the 2 door hardtops and convertibles.
> But there is very high interest in 2 door hardtops and convertibles.
> 
> This fact is reflected in the prices. A V8 '57 BelAir sport coupe, restored
> is typically running in the $20-25,000 range, although some are asking over
> $30,000. An identical 4 door sedan, on the other hand, would be difficult
> to get $10,000, if you could find someone who even wanted it. Most 4 doors
> are not restored for this reason (at this point in time). I have seen
> few people asking more than $6-8000 for a 4 door in excellent condition.
> Throw in a 6 cylinder instead of a V8, and it drops some more. For this
> reason, if you like these cars and are on a budget, a 4 door sedan needing
> very little work is the way to go. They're the only ones that aren't
> grossly overpriced IMHO. BTW convertibles are running $30-50,000. All these
> prices are US dollars, btw.
> 
> With these prices, every time I go to look at a "nicer" 5-6-7 Chevy, I come
> home and my 6 cylinder 2 door sedan gets better looking all the time.  :-)
> I didn't pay anywhere near these outrageous prices for it, and it's not
> worth those kind of prices, either. And frankly, I'm glad it isn't.
>  
> Ted Brooks


This reminds me of a friend of mine who purchased a few years ago a '69 Vette 
w/a big block 427cid/435hp engine.  He really loved to drive this bargin 
(at the time) car around...that is until he finally realized how the value
of these vettes went out of sight.  Now it only comes out of the garage on
cruise nights and is no longer used as summer transportation.
From: bobb@terapin.com (Bob Breckenridge)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: swap meets
Date: 10 Oct 92 11:50:13 PST
Organization: BBS

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.  I would like to find out when and where
swap meets are happening around here, so I can get parts for a `68 Cougar XR7. 
Are there magazines that advertise these meets, or how can I find them???  Any
advice concerning a good source for parts in the Bay Area would be nice.  I
live in Berzerkeley to be exact.

Any news is good news ...
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Subject: Re: Charter?
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 10:47:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.124815.26850@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) writes:
>
>
>Uh-oh.  Where can I find this charter?  Maybe someone would send it
>to me.

    I did, but your address in the article (mdl@phelixalt) was bogus
    and it bounced.

    Watch for our upcoming call for votes for rec.autos.antique.  It
    has the proposed charter in it.  I can't post it yet.

--
============================================================================
| Help stamp out stupid .signature files!           Gerry Swetsky  WB9EBO  |
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============================================================================
From: farber@triumph.Princeton.EDU (Henry S. Farber)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Re: Old Car Emissions (Update)
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:40:33 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

Rocko writes:

Facists like your selves needn't post about these many and diverse subjects.
The Ruler Supreme ROSS will soon cut this and all other car related issues
down to size. I am voting for Ross (for this and other reasons) because he
has the gutts to ask for FARE and REASONABLE tax increases on gas. This will
give us a great tax base to rebuild our dying highways and bridges with. I
happen to own a 1969 Chrystler New Yorker with a 440 ci engine. It weighs
4400 lbs. and is as aerodinamic as Ross's big ol' ears. I love it and I'll
drive it till one of us dies. A $300.00 car that gets less than 13 mpg isn't
a good finanial move when gas is $1.50-$1.60-$1.70-$1.80-$1.90-$2.00 over 5
(five) years.

Hank replies:

We don't differ so very much (does that make you a facist or me a good
old boy?).  A steep increase in the gas tax would serve the purpose of
getting older (read less efficient) cars to be used less.  There are real
costs to EVERYONE from use of highly polluting automobiles.  Users of
such cars should pay EVERYONE (through taxes) for the right to impose
these costs.  The payment should be proportional to use, not ownership. 
Both a gas tax and special plates will do that.  What none of us reading
this newsgroup wants is for it to become illegal to own/operate such a
vehicle.  I just think people ought to pay for what they do. 


Rocko proceeds:

P.S.
Hank,
Get a REAL car and a REAL life. BUY AMERICAN. If you don't like new american,
buy old AMERICAN !!!!!!!!!

love and kisses,
Rocko

Hank replies yet again:

As for my choice of non-Detroit iron.  What has that got to do with
emissions and old cars? This is alt.autos.antique, not
alt.autos.antique.american.  If I liked old detroit iron, I would own
some. 

P.S.  my brother has a VERY nice 66 Mustang convertible with 289 V-8 and
3-speed stick.  He also has a 69 BMW 2002.  Where does that leave him in
your book?  And I used to drive a Dodge VAN with 289 V-8 until things
started to snap unexpectedly (like the mainshaft in the transmission).

It would be a boring world indeed if we all had the same tastes.
  
Hank.
From: doernber@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Joey Doernberg)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:56:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Jags?
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique

In alt.autos.antique, pva@lesti.hut.fi (Pekka A Valtonen) writes:

> 
> 	Hello,
> 
> 	I was wondering if theres any Jaguar fans reading this group?
> 	Or if theres a mailing list for Jaguars or British cars in 
> 	general, I would like to join in.
> 
> 	I'm particularly interested on Jaguar Mk2, since I'm restoring one.
> 	Also interested on specialist Jaguar spares companies in the US.

Yes, there are Jag fans reading this group.

Here are a few places for Jag parts.

XKs Unlimited (800) 444-5247 (JAGS); (805) 544-7864 
BPI	(800) 231-6563, (800) 231-5836, (713) 863-8384,
Specialty Interest Car Parts (800) 556-7496 
Welsh Jaguar	(800) 875-5247, (614) 282-8649

BPI is the cheapest I've found.  XKs has the largest selection.
Most of them have big free catalogs, 800 numbers, and do mail order 
business.  I haven't bought from Specialty yet.

Good luck with a great car.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
|         @..@          Joey Doernberg
|        (----)         joey@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com
|       < I  I >        (415) 857-6315
|         "  "
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Old Car Emissions (Update)
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:36:16 GMT

In article (Henry S. Farber) writes
|> People who actually use older cars because they cost less are NOT
|> "exploiting" anything except relatively low prices.  This is what we all
|> do when we look for a bargain.  I never buy a new car.  It is
|> ridiculously expensive in all dimensions (purchase cost, insurance,
|> etc).  There is nothing wrong with this.

You point is exactly what I'm saying.  Unless using older cars for daily
use is discouraged, all older cars used for hobby purposes are going to
get a bum rap.

|> However, tarring the current regular users of older cars as exploting
|> anything is harsh and misleading.  We all respond to relative prices. 
|> In fact, the proper functioning of our market economy (if it really is
|> functioning properly!) relies on this.

Maybe.  But I have heard people lament how Detroit ought to go out and
make a good high fuel economy low-pollution car; and then they go out
and buy the cheapest old hulk they can find to drive to work.  These
people definitely need to be tarred and feathered.

|> For your purusal, here are my family's cars so you can see where I am
|> coming from:
|> 
|> Everyday Cars:
|> 
|> 1983 Mercedes 300TD (125K miles, purchased at 90K miles)
|> 1986 BMW 325 (65K miles, purchased at 50K miles)
|> 
|> Fun cars:
|> 
|> 1960 Triumph TR-3A
|> 1973 BMW 2002tii
|> 
|> Dry weather commuter:
|> 
|> 1982 Yamaha 650 Maxim
|> 

If you truly only use the '83 Mercedes and '86 BMW for commuting and
everyday use, you are a model of the currently acceptable "polically
correct" car ownership.  The only cars that are currently being
targeted by legislation are mostly pre-1982.  All 1982 and later cars
in good operating condition will comply with the current EPA limits.

Mark
From: kmcmilla@ua.d.umn.edu (Ken McMillan)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Wild goose chases
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:40:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua.d.umn.edu

On the subject of wild goose chases I too have gone on a few. I read an ad in
Hemmings Motor News for a '69 GS California and a '68 GS California. Now, I
already own one '69 California but the asking price of $800 made me call. I
talked to the guy for about half an hour and he told me the '68 was missing
the front clip, but the rest of the shell was rust-free and the interior was
all there with no rips or tears. He said the '69 had been his daughters daily
driver and had 108K on it but that it ran real well. He said it was rusty in
the quarters, but that the doors, fenders, etc. were real nice. I
specifically asked him about the back bumper because I needed one and he said
he was talking to me on a cordless phone so he'd walk outside and look at it
while we talked. He said it was real nice, no dents or creases. Well, I
talked to him a little longer and he told me if I drove down I could have
both cars for $650. I should have known right there it was too good to be
true, but I had to go see for myself. I rented a trailer and talked my dad
into riding with me. I figured we could trailer the '68 and drive the '69.
We headed out at 5AM and 7 hours later I was looking at the cars. The '68 
had been hit hard in the front, the frame rails were bent and the rear 
quarters had been bondoed and were bubbling. The interior was a shambles, 
the dash was half tore apart, the doors panels were missing and the rest 
of the interior was so piled with parts you couldn't see what shape
the seat covers were in. The '69 did run, but he had taken the dual-snorkle
hood and air cleaner off. The interior was tore to pieces and the bottoms of
the doors were both bent up from running off the road. The rear quarters were
almost completely gone along with the trunk floor and the back bumper that
was supposed to be "really nice" had big truck tires piled up against it.
After moving the tires away I found myslef staring at a nice big rust hole
about 6 inches long. Oh, he told me, I didn't move the tires when I looked at
it. Well, after deciding there wasn't a straight part on either car we jumped
back in the truck and drove the seven hours home. My dad told me he was glad
I didn't buy it, he was afraid I would have to buy something after driving
seven hours to look at it! Oh well, live and learn. 

I'm still looking for a good bumper for my '69. It's the one with the
back-up light right above the license plate. I'll probably want to see a
picture of it though ;^)

_________________________________________________________________________
Ken McMillan		kmcmilla@ub.d.umn.edu
Network Support

"I like having a machine called 'elvis' on the network, that way I can
say 'ping elvis' and have it come back and say 'elvis is alive'."
					- Carl Shipley
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 12:02:30 EDT
From: Nicholas V. Barone <NVBBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Info on 1952 Riley 2 1/2 Liter RBM

Does anyone own or know someone with the above car. Email me directly
Thanks Nick Barone
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:01:00 GMT
Subject: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique

              Please answer these 9 questions and return.

1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

2.) Are you pro choice?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

5.) What sex are you?
Male               [ ]
Female             [ ]

6.) How old are you?
Under 18           [ ]
19 to 65           [ ]
Over 65            [ ]

7.) What religion are you?
Protestant         [ ]
Catholic           [ ]
Jewish             [ ]
Other              [ ]

8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
Democratic         [ ]
Republican         [ ]
Other              [ ]

9.) How many years of education have you completed?
Grade School       [ ]
High School        [ ]
College            [ ]
More               [ ]
From: cn09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christopher Kalevi Nuuja)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: 56' Mercury Montclair update
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:43:38 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Thanks for all the info I've recieved so far.
Update:
   I checked out the body and underneath the car.  No rust or Bondo.
Its the 2dr hardtop, not the 4dr I thought it was.  From the Old Cars Price
Guide (quote courtesy of Steve Bender):
1956 Mercury Montclair

Condition         #6      #5      #4      #3      #2      #1

4 dr Spt Sedan    450    1100    1700    3650    6650    9500
2 dr Hard Top     700    2150    3600    7200   12600   18000
4 dr Hard Top     450    1450    2400    4800    8400   12000
Convertible      1100    3500    5800   11600   20300   29000

I would guess the condition to be somewhere between #3 and #2 (7200 - 12600).
but I'm very new to this antique appraisel bit.
The asking price is 6800.

Why I don't immediately buy it?  The guy selling it is trying too hard to
sell me on it in all the wrong ways.  "I got a lotta people who are interested
in this, but I'll only sell it to someone I like, 'cause they're gonna make
a lot of money on it, no doubt about it".  Some other comment about how I
should be nice to him because he loves that car and will only sell it to me if
he likes me.  He plans on asking 10,000 for it once his current ad runs out,
because he saw one sell for that at a show in Hershey park just last week.
I don't know why I didn't ask him why he didn't do just that and make an extra
$3200 dollar profit. Yeah I do, I was afraid he would.  The real kicker is he
claims he gets disability checks, and doesn't want a whole lotta money
going through his bank account, so he needs the $6800 in cash.

Is it hot?  Perhaps there is some mechanical defect I can't tell on inspection?
He won't move it to have it inspected at my mechanic, but will allow a mechanic
to come over and check it out there (its a garage/ old and antique car dealer)
Perhaps he's just accustomed to doing buisness in this I'm yr' friend kinda
of way, and perhaps he really does get disability checks, but I don't
trust him at all.  I suppose I should get the title info and have it checked
out.
   So now I have a line on another 56' 2dr hrd top I saw in an add.  I'm just
afraid its the same guy.  No one's been home when I've called.  The add says
its a "great restoration", and they're asking 6550.  What's up with these
prices?
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: massengale_m@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Thanks for alignment suggestions!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:00:24 GMT


Thanks to everyone who helped me with alignment/steering suggestions.

Melanie
From: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Great vintage racing movie
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:43:11 GMT
Reply-To: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Organization: Cornerstone Research, Cambridge, Mass.

Vintage race car fans should run out and rent "A Man and a Woman," a 1966 
French film about a romance between a race driver and a movie star.  I only 
saw part of it on TV last night, but that part included some terrific scenes 
from Le Mans (including the start), with glimpses of important vehicles such 
as the Ferrari 275 LM and Shelby Daytona Coupe, as well as some great rally 
footage with the main character piloting a Shelby GT350 Mustang along snow-
covered European roads.  The non-automotive parts of the story are pretty 
good too!  It's in French with English subtitles, and I should add that it 
won the 1966 Oscar for best foreign film.

Andy
From: sffcu@cuais01.cc.columbia.edu (Stewart Feuerstein)
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
Subject: Re: '66 Mustang 289 gas milage
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:34:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

In article <25855288@bailey.UUCP> ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey) writes:

>Hi,

>We're the proud owners of a recently restored 66 Mustang Convertable.

>Anyway, we just drove it back from N.C. to Tampa Fl. on I-95.  We drove
>at about 63 MPH for the trip.  ...it was getting between
>13 and 14.5 MPG.  That seems very low to me, but we just don't know
>what would be 'normal'.

>The motor was rebuilt.  

	Ben,
	If your engine was just rebuilt, gas mileage and power will be poor 
and the car will probably run hot until you get about 2000 miles on the 
engine.   As a matter of fact it probably will feel like you are pulling a 
sixteen ton weight until you hit about 1000 miles.  The gas mileage will 
steadily get better until the engine is fully broken in.  Also try not to 
drive at a steady speed as you break the engine in.  Try to vary the RPM on 
the motor during these critical break in miles (particularly the first 
thousand) and also take it easy (no full throttle accelerations and no 
redlining the engine).  For example if you are going on an hour long trip, 
drive 45 mph for 15 minutes, 55 mph for 15 min, 40 mph for 15 min etc...  
Try to keep the speed down initially to keep the RPM down (no 70mph runs).
Also change the oil after about the first 100 miles, then at 1000 miles and 
again at 2000 miles.  Follow the normal oil change interval after that.

	These are my guidelines for breaking in an engine.  I've rebuilt 
about five or six different engines over the years so I am speaking from 
experience.  Break in procedures are akin to religion, everyone has a 
different opinion.  Listen to what people say and decide what you want to 
do.  The bottom line though is your gas mileage is within normal parameters 
for an engine that was just rebuilt.

				-Stew  
Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
From: steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff)
Subject: Re: Willys Jeep problems (Take 2)
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:32:01 GMT

pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
: My brother is having problems with his '44 Willys Jeep.  It has a '47 engine in
: it.  After buying it, he replaced the points, condensor (I think), coil, plugs,
: plug wires, vacuum line, and rebuilt the carb.  We also disconnected and
: plugged the vacuum line to the wipers.  This engine starts, idles, and runs
: fine, and you can rev the engine in neutral.  When you go to take off, the
: engine backfires through the carb (ie, when there is a load on the engine).
: This happens no matter where se set the timing.  People have said that the
: vacuum advance is going bad, and the only thing we can get around here is a
: whole distributor for $135 (ouch!)

Well, since you rebuilt the carby this sounds like the major cause. Try
adjusting the mixture screw - On my '44 Ford GPW (same as your Willys) I
didn't have any power at all when in gear, yet it idled and revved really
well. I actually have a Stromberg carby (lots better fuel economy than the
standard Carter downdraft) which has the mixture easily adjustable from
the outside, but I think, from memory, the Carter has it INSIDE! Another
guy in our jeep club has been doing lots of tinkering with his carby recently,
so I'll talk to him for you, if you like.
BTW, with the Go-Devil and CJ-[23] motors, the idle speed should be VERY
low - it's amazing just how low they can idle... you think they're just
about to cut out but they don't... it's that massive crankshaft that does
the trick.

As for parts, try looking in 'The All-American Wonder' Volume 1 by Ray
Cowdery. He gives a list of places in the US and other foreign countries
of MB/GPW parts suppliers. As for me, here in Sydney, Oz there are 3 places
locally I can get parts from, and they're just about always cheaper than
normal modern car parts. I even drove my GPW to work this morning. 
Anyway, nice to see other WW2 jeep owners out there on the net!

Hope this helps,

Steve Malikoff.
steven@syacus.acus.oz.au
Member of WW2 Jeeps NSW, a club dedicated to owning, restoring and driving
the most famous military vehicle of all, the MB / GPW!