HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jane@essex.ac.uk
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: another lost poem
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:09:37 GMT
Reply-To: jane@essex.ac.uk ()
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

Does anyone remember a poem which is about different
trees and specifically, their wood and the properties
it has when seasoned to burn on house fires?  Bits of
it go something like :

Ash burns bright when seasoned or green
and...
Oakwood burns a fire fit for a king
and...
Something burns clear if the logs are kept a year

It's a really old poem that is a good way of teaching
kids knowledge which is lost today because of the way
we live.

Jane
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Eat when and what you want
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:43:28 GMT

shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:

> >I am of the opinion that children will eat when they are ready
> >but I also believe that it is my responsiblity to teach them they
> >can't always run and play when it is suppertime just because they
> >aren't hungry.  The rule at my house is "If you aren't hungry, that
> >is fine then don't eat it but you must sit down quietly with us
> >while we are eatting"  

>This is an excellent combination of standards.  You can't force
>a child to eat what she doesn't want, but can expect her to be
>considerate of others' needs.

Thanks for the posting on this.  I was wondering how I could state
this same thing to my kids so that there could be a family social
hour without *too* much trouble.

>One thing to remember is that later in life (school+) we need to
>follow the schedule generally acceptable by society.  I don't know
>when or how to start them eating on society's schedule.  Any
>suggestions for future reference??

I'm guessing you mean the average American schedule?  Other countries
and cultures have vastly differing schedules, like eating late in
the evening, or having extremely long lunches, etc.  As for us, the
only schedule we keep at our home is breakfast and evening meal times.
Lunch is definitely varied, although is *usually* happens around noontime.

>Dave Shackelford

>(To my detractors: A post that doesn't mention that controversial
>parenting technique -- how did that happen?? Maybe I'm more than a
>single-issue kind of guy...  ;-)

NO!! Say it isn't SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!  =)

Gee Dave, maybe you're just getting to be a softie in your old age, eh?  =)

Maybe I should be mean and set out some bait:

"You know Dave, concerning spanking and . . . "  Sorry, just COULDN'T
pass that up!   =)  ;)

allen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gwynne@stein.u.washington.edu (Kristan Geissel)
Subject: Re:  Authoritarian Parents (was 20/20 and spanking)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:47:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.164048.15233@jetsun.weitek.COM> robert@jetsun.weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon) writes:
>
>Here are some hallmarks of authoritarian parents I have known, which
>may help differentiate them from other kinds:
>
>1. Authoritarian parents take offense if their kids do something
>   successfully, but in a way that differed from their instructions.
>   That is, authoritarian parents discourage and even punish independent
>   thinking, even when it's successful.
>
>2. Authoritarian parents will punish children for things that might
>   not even provoke a comment from other people.
>3. Authoritarian parents talk about being "forced" to punish "for the
>   principle of the thing," but can't articulate what principle they're
>   defending.
>4. Authoritarian parents get more confused and desperate as their children
>   get older and more independent, as their ability to control (or even
>   influence) their children declines.
>
Boy, does this ever sound like my mother.  I still haven't figured out 
what style my dad followed; generally he followed/backed my mom.  The 
great thing for my daughter is that I was aware of this parenting
debacle - not knowing a name for it though - long ago and realized that
the single most harmful effect of #1 was/is my inability to follow
through on anything because whatever I did wasn't quite right while I
was growing up.  I do have to admit though that some of the loudest
self talking I do is to remind myself that Gwynne can do something 
the best way for her, not the way I expect it to be done.  Sometimes
I can barely hear myself think because I am yelling so loudly at 
myself :).  I can also remember being punished under rule 3 more often
than not and I know that I am not doing that to Gwynne, thank goodness.

Kristan
gwynne@u.washington.edu
 
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Inadequate Weight Gain at Two Week Checkup
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:20:52 GMT

In article <2174@hsdndev.UUCP> traite@eros.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.221548.4752@oakhill.sps.mot.com> amym@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp) writes:
>
[...]
>feed.  BTW Everthing I read seems to say that you need to stay
>with either breast or bottle  NOT switch back and forth at least
>until feeding is firmly established.  I'm not surprised Elizabeth
[...]

Oh no, I've done it wrong. :)

Melinda has been using formula & breastmilk from day 1.  She's 
almost 6 months now.  We breastfeed morning & night & she has 
formula  (and solids) during the day.  (No night feedings since 
5 1/2 weeks.)  She's about 25-26 inches and closing in on 19 lbs.

I guess you cannot take everything you read too seriously.

Elise.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: vaporizer, anyone? replaces decongestant
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:51:20 GMT

mpiller@sybase.com (Marion Piller) writes:

>Doesn't anyone use vaporizers anymore?  I have used the old-fasioned
>variety, hot steam, not cold steam, with a great deal of success with
>both my kids, who are now 13 and 6.  You have to keep the window slightly
>open and the door ajar to avoid *really* steaming up the room, but boy do
>my children sleep well with it when they have colds.

We use our hot steam vaporizer just about every night during the winter
months.  The boys (3.5 and 1.5 years) are always getting colds, etc.
from their interaction with other kids, adults, and whomever.  The
vaporizer has more than proven its worth for us.

allen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: EMN002@email.mot.com (Mary Beth Northrup)
Subject: Info request: Club Med with 2 yo?
Organization: Motorola, Inc. Plantation, FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:23:22 GMT

We are looking into taking a "real" vacation this summer - the first since
Sean was born (trips to see Grandma and Grandpa don't count! :-) ). We're
looking into the Club Med at St. Lucia.

Since we like active vacations, especially ones involving ocean activities
(we are avid scuba divers, my husband is also into windsurfing), this Club
Med location looks perfect for us. It is an intensive dive center and an
intensive windsurfing center. It also has a baby club med that takes kids
from age two (Sean will be just-turned-two when we plan to go).

Does anyone have experience with this Club - or any Club Med with kids? Are
the child care facilities adequate? We would have him with us most of the
time, but want time out ourselves to go diving. Will the children's activities
be fun for Sean? (He is used to being in day care)

Any experience or advice would be greatly appreciated. Please email responses
to EMN002@email.mot.com

(sorry if this is a repost, I tried last week and didn't even see it appear!)

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Mary Beth Northrup                    "In the house and on the street .. |
| (mommy to Sean, 16 mo.)																	how many, many feet you meet!"   |
| EMN002@email.mot.com                                   ---  Dr. Seuss    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: Theresa Jarosz Alberti <sapphire@wings.micro.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Diarrhea and vomiting
X-Xxdate: Sun, 22 Nov 92 16:28:57 GMT
Organization: Authors with Twins
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:06:07 GMT

In article <24112@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Sandra Mergen,
smergen@luna.dpl.scg.hac.com writes:
>My 2 year old has had a viral with vomiting (twice, during the night)
>for the past week.  There is a viral going around in our area for a
>month or so now.  My husband and I have had it for 2 weeks each.  We
>are SICK of it.
>
>The doctor says no milk products for Melissa, just Gatorade, and
>the BRAT diet.  Well, for those who have a 2 year old, you can
>imagine how difficult it is to restrict milk, and whatever else
>they're used to eating.  My daughter doesn't eat much as it is.
>
>Is anyone else going through this that can tell me how they handled
>the fussy 2 year old, the throwing up in the middle of the night,
>the leaking diapers.  I am SOOOO tired.

I know what you mean.  I have 15 month-old twins who have been going
through the same thing for the last two weeks.  It is really getting old.
 I think I should buy stock in Gatorade because we've been going through
gallons of it!

We are getting really adept at changing crib sheets and blankets in the
middle of the night, learning how to clean up vomit from the carpet.  Ug.

One woman friend told me her doctor advised her to take her son off all
foods-- just Gatorade-- for 24 hours straight, to give the stomach and
intestines a chance to rest.  We did that for Gennie and Leo yesterday,
then started them today on small amounts of bland food today.  So far
some firm stools and no vomitting.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Good luck to you!

--Theresa Jarosz Alberti
From: winner@Apple.COM (Stephanie Winner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "New Mothers Room" in the workplace
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:32:37 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <3167@ncr-mpd.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM> sbaum%cad@MCC.COM (Susan Baum) writes:
>I am in the process of proposing to our company's personnel director and
>plant manager that we create a "New Mothers" room to provide breast
>feeding mothers with a decent place to express and then store their milk.
>
>Does anyone know of any other companies which provided such a place
>(besides a stall in the ladies room!), and if so, what was provided in the
>room (refrigerator, pump, etc...) and suggestions on justifications for why
>this can be beneficial to the employer (i.e., encourage more women to
>return to work).
>
The nicest facilities I have seen are at Synopsys in Mountain
View, CA.  There is a large stall in the women's room which
has dim lighting a loveseat and a plush chair with endtables.
The door to it can be locked and the *stall* is carpeted.  Around
the corner from the restroom is a fridge in the breakroom.

After seeing this I asked the Apple facilities people if we could
possibly incorporate one into our new R&D Center which was about
to be constructed (they hadn't thought of it themselves).  Unfortunately
it was too late, but they did add an electrical outlet in the handicap
stall. Previously, moms pumped in storage closets or at the restroom
vanity. 

Anyway, I wouldn't get your hopes up about getting a room since
even Apple--one of the highest rated companies by Working Mother
magazine doesn't think they are worthwhile.  (BTW Apple also provides
(expensive) daycare for only 1 out of 4 families who want it).

Stephanie Winner
winner@apple.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: zippy@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (steven.s.albert)
Subject: Re: My firstborn ain't a baby anymore!
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:49:29 GMT

In article <17NOV199211054798@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov>, goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg) writes:
> Well, funny you should mention this. My four year old son has
> started wiping off kisses (sometimes). My daughter did not do
> that until she  was 6, and then only when it was a public kiss.

Yow!  Billy has already started doing this and he's only 2 1/2!

	Steve Albert (Billy's dad [29 months])
	ssa@usl.com
From: kati@glnserv.gbdata.com (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Help getting two year old to sleep
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 06:49:36 CST
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:

> In article <1992Nov20.215953.2532973@locus.com>, judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom
> > Well, you can lead a child to bed, but you can't make him sleep.  At least,
> > that has been my experience with BOTH children.  So we don't make them slee
> > We do the bedtime routine and then go to bed.  If they'd prefer playing in
> > their rooms or watching TV or reading, they are free to do so.  The point f
> > us is that we are through being parents.  We are now "off work" so to speak

Guess what? You don't get to be "off work" when you are a parent. It's a 24-hour
a day deal. You can indeed take a break from it after the children are safely
in bed asleep, but you are still "on call". Now that you've worked out a bedtime
routine, you need to follow it up with seeing that they do stay in bed and lay
quietly, if they can't get to sleep right away. Letting them get up again ruins
the whole idea of having a bedtime routine. You've allowed it to be simply an
interruption in their playing; nothing more.

>
> Of course, to simply accept that is to assume that there are no
> consequences to a child staying up till all hours.  We find that
> getting Daniel out of bed in the morning is a battle, and that he tends
> to be really cranky and clingy all morning if he stayed up too late the
> night before.  Besides, he doesn't just stay in his room and let us
> relax; every ten minutes, he wants to talk to us about something.



* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




From: kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:09:54 GMT
Subject: Re: I dislocated his arm!
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.kids


This is in response to Susan's post about dislocating her son's elbow.
She ended as follows:
> 
> Mom on the other hand still feels terrible :-(.  So I guess I am posting
> this as a warning to other parents to be carefull when lifting a child
> by his arms (or swinging him around or whatever).  I was certainly not
> trying to hurt my little guy, and it all happenned so quickly and easily!
> 
> -- Susan Davis (Mommy to Ryan 19 months and ?? Due 5/6/93)
> 
I want to second all your warnings.  I did something similar: my daughter
liked to be swung by her arms at 3 month old.  I did it once too often and
she went from laughing to crying.  I could not figure out what happened.
I rocked her and she quit crying and fell asleep.  An hour later she woke
up.  She refused to move her arm and cried any time I touched it.  I took
her to emergency where we met her doctor.  She (the doctor) twisted the arm
and it popped back into place.  Like a miracle my daughter was all right -
she quit crying and started using her arm almost immediately.

Don't feel too guilty.  It happens to many others.  Also, if anyone has
guilt it should be the doctors!  Mine NEVER WARNED me about this until
AFTER it happened.  What is a first-time mother with no prior experience
supposed to do when you are not told?  Of course, I never swing my daughter
by her arms now; I put my arms around her body and swing her that way.

Even with this knowledge, my daughter dislocated her elbow at least twice
more.  Once, she just put her arm behind her and leaned on the back of a couch.
I guess the hard wood across the back came just at the wrong location on her
arm.  I aways took her in and had a doctor "twist" her arm.  The last time,
the doctor showed me how to do it myself, but luckily I have had no need to
test my knowledge.  Each time, the pain and discomfort seemed to cease just
as soon as the elbow was re-located.

It seems that some kids have weak joint which gets stronger as they get
older.  However, with my daughter's history of multiple dislocations, I will
discuss it with a doctor before she does gymnastics that stress the arms.

Karla Perdue                 The opinions expressed are strictly my
Mountain View, CA            own and not those of Hewlett-Packard.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: alainew@mentorg.com (Alaine Warfield)
Subject: Re: Brahm's lullaby
Summary: 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:55:07 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation; Beaverton, Oregon
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

Here are the words as I've been singing them (as sung
on the Hallmark Lullaby tape).  When my daughter was
very new, two repetitions of the whole thing almost
always put her to sleep:

Lullaby, and good night
In the sky stars are bright
All around your tiny head
Gentle moonbeams fill your bed

Refrain:
Close your eyes now and rest
May these hours be blessed
Go to sleep now and rest
May these hours be blessed

Lullaby, baby dear
Your mother is here
She will sing to your delight
'Til your sleepy eyes close tight

REFRAIN

Lullaby, little one
Gone to sleep is the sun
Stars are shining in the sky
As the moon smiles from on high

REFRAIN


This tape also has some nice verses to
Rock-a-bye Baby which are non-violent,
but I didn't memorize them as Brahm's
Lullabye was the only one that "did the
trick" for Kayla.


	Alaine
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:08:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.181100.6096@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:
>In article <119450008@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com> kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue) writes:
>>
>>I was very interested in Judy's posting.  I have one question:
>>
>>  If you have had more traditional ideas about food (i.e. that some are
>>  "bad") with the parents exercising control and your child in now 5 or 6,
>>  has anyone had experience STARTING a "eat anything" model at that age?
>>  Have their eating habits already become so fixed and dependant on the
>>  parents' control that the parents must continue to exercise some control?
>>  Or will they adapt and after a while and correct to eating a balanced
>>  and varied diet?
>>
>>Thanks for any comments.
>
>One of my friends had classic battles with her 7 year old son over
>eating.  Things got off to a bad start between her "traditional"
>ideas about nutrition and her son's bout with a serious illness.
>
>After some discussion, she changed her style.  She refused to make
>food the battle ground it had been.  She fixed "good" meals & 
>got a lot of "healthy" snacks.  Then she quit bugging her son
>about what he ate.  
>
>After about a week, the kid had stopped complaining about food.
>He then started to eat from the "healthy" snacks when he was
>hungry.  After about 2 months, he was pretty much eating dinner
>with the rest of the family with out too much deviation.
>
>I don't know if they went all the way toward "no bad foods"
>There was such a lot of damage to undo that a cold turkey approach
>might not have worked at all.  Last I talked to my friend, her
>son seems to be gaining weight like he should now & she's
>a lot less uptight over food in general.  
>
>Hope this helps,
>Elise.

I read this newsgroup mainly to show postings to my girlfriend (who has a
4 & 7 year old, but has no net access).  I developed an interest in nutrition
when my children were 4 & 6 and have been the custodial parent since they
were 6 & 8.  They're was a gradual change (for the better) in all of our diets
& since I was providing the food, I made sure that there was enough of a
variety of healthful foods in addition to not taking away all of the "foods"
to which they'd become accustomed.  They were aware that I allowed them to
have some things which I wouldn't have myself (& they were aware that I
considered these things not that healthy); they also got into the habit of
taking food supplements (as they saw me doing it regularly) & eventually
further modified their diets somewhat, possibly from the example that I set.
They kept some Halloween candy & brought the majority into school the next
day.  To this day they have pretty good health habits.  So I guess I can sum
up my experience with have a lot of healthy food around, set a good example
& don't be a martyr.

Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:13:49 -0500 
From: Laura McGinnis <lm3a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RFI: Irish Clothier in NY State?

Sorry to take up bandwidth, but a friend of mine has asked for some help
in procuring a special Christmas gift for his expectant wife.  Here's
his request:

>I am looking for the name of an Irish clothier that specializes in women's
>clothing, most especially nightgowns.  I know they exist, because i was
>at one of their outlets in New York State over the summer.  The reason i
>ask, is because i forgot the name, and am interested in trying to do some
>mailorder business with them (Christmas gift for [wife]).
> 
>The reason i liked this places was that they make nice, long, all-cotton
>nightgowns that look comfortable, and have no waistline, so would be
>very comfortable for a pregnant lady.  They were very pretty, mostly white
>with buttons and lace and other neo-Victorian stylings.
> 
>Any help would be much appreciated.  The difficulty is to go looking
>whithout [wife] knowing what i am doing - (otherwise it spoils the surprise).
> 
>I hope you find this strange request at least humorous, even if you
>(like me) have little clue as to were to turn for information.  Sometimes
>i could really kick myself for not getting the store's business card.
>(It really is a chain, something on the order of Laura Ashley, but on a
>smaller scale - and very Irish.)

If anyone knows of such a place, what their name might be, whether or
not they do take mail orders, etc., please email me or or my friend
directly (frezza@ee.pitt.edu).  I'll forward posted responses to him as
well.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Laura


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Subject: Re: antibiotics and the pill
Organization: Rockwell International
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:00:59 GMT


Well maybe it was because I was on 1/50's but I took the pill for about 15 years and
I probably took 20 or 30 sets of antibiotics in that time and I never had a problem 
nor have any of my friends.  Maybe they tend to omit it because it is a small percentage
of the people and maybe it is just that they are using weaker pills these days.

Karen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Stephanie Edelmann)
Subject: Rules? (Re: Diapers and the environment)
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:26:45 GMT

OK, guys, just a word about format.  I've been reading the posts in
misc.kids for just a little while and maybe I'm not qualified to make
any comments.  I don't want to sound like somebody's Mom either, but
I thought I'd say my 2 cents worth anyway.
Today I read one of the nastiest posts I have ever read under the
Diapers and Environment thread.  Please, if you want to have a discussion
about something, stick with the facts!!!!! Don't get into personal in
front of all of us.  I tell my kid that i's not nice to do that kind of
thing and I'd hope that other people's Moms feel similar.
And about bringing up past mistakes.  Well, I guess most parents would
consider it a bad idea to bring up historical events (like last months
mishapses) when trying to deal with present issues.
I personally think that a discussion looses out when people start
getting into personal attacks.
This is just MHO, but I'd hope that I'm not alone.
 
 
                                       Stephanie
                                       BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.kids