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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:15:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Defining HyperCard and Hyper

Ellen,
        I'd be really interested in knowing what arguments your
department at KY offered for rescinding the option to use a computer
language for a language requirement.  Someone recently sent me a
citation for an article from a 1989 issue of College English which
addresses how useless current requirements for foreign language
proficiency can be.  I have the citation somewhere and plan to track down
the article myself.  I'll post it as soon as I locate it again.  Perhaps
it is time to begin reassessing what function such requirements serve
and what role "computer languages" might play in a composition
specialization degree.
        What worries me in the thread of comments about this issue is
the adamant responses from the departments who have either rescinded the
"privilege" or refused it out right.  I'm really interested in getting
a sense of what assumptions are being used to make the case against a
"computer language" for a Natural language.
        More later.
jeff galin
galin@vms.cis.pitt.edu
From: RCRAIG2@KENTVM.BITNET (Ray Craig)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: class size
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:05:28 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Class Sizes @ Kent State U. are holding at 25 in all sections
despite successive budget cuts of 7, 8 and 8%.  Our department
has chosen to increase class sizes in liberal education requirement
courses instead, and in the next rounds the plan is to begin
cutting offerings that directly affect better funded programs
in the university.  Here where the Wyoming Resolution seems as
distant as Wyoming itself, there is clear recognition of the
importance of reduced class sizes.

Ray Craig    Bitnet:    rcraig2@kentvm
English      Internet:  rcraig2@kentvm.kent.edu
Kent State University    (216) 672-2219
From: KALER@UKANVM.BITNET (Ellen Redding Kaler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Basic writing, again and again
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:39:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              2 Oct 1992 09:06:42 EDT from <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

They would have no doubt liked it better if you sang the ED works to the tune
of Gilligans Island! (Amazing Grace works too...)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 24 Sep 1992 13:30:33 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Call for proposals--MU grad student conference

Again, apologizies to those poor souls who get multiple copies of this:
--Eric
----------------------------------

Text and Context:
Ideological Tension in the Discipline


***Call for Proposals***

The Second Annual
English Graduate Student Conference
University of Missouri

February 19 & 20, 1993
Columbia, Missouri


Keynote speaker: Linda Brodkey, University of California-San Diego


 This year's conference, "Text and Context: The Ideological Tension
in the Discipline," recognizes the publicdiscussion about the
political and ideological nature of English Studies.  The emergence
and growing strength of new, often competing, perspectives on
language and literature has created a volatile environment in many
of the fields that fall under the umbrella of English studies,
including multiculturalism, feminism, psychoanalysis, and other
ways of approaching language study.

We invite abstracts for individual papers, panels, and roundtables
addressing a ny subjects that fall under the purview of English as
a discipline.  Topics concerning the theme of the conference are
especially welcomed.


 Submit proposals or questions:

By mail:
John Pendergast
107 Tate Hall
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211

By e-mail:
Eric Crump
C509379@mizzou1
C509379@mizzou1.missouri.edu

Deadline: November 30, 1992


Proposal form:


Proposal submitted by:
Name:
Institution and its address:



Home Address:

Phone (office):
Equipment needs (please be specific):

Please check here if you
(or members of your panel)
would be willing to chair a session:


INDIVIDUAL PRESENTATION
Individual presenters will be given a total of 25 minutes, some of
which should be allotted for questions and comments from the
audience.  Individual presentations will be grouped togeth er for
75-minute sessions.

Title of presentation:
(on a separate sheet, please attach a 200-250 word abstract)

PANEL PRESENTATION
Panels are given a total of 75 minutes, including time for audience
interaction.

Title of presentation:
(on a separate sheet, please attach a 200-250 word abstract)

ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSIONS
Roundtable discussions will be given a total of 75 minutes and
individual commen ts should be kept brief.

Title or discussion topic:
(on a separate sheet, please attach a 200-250 word abstract)

CREATIVE WRITING
Short stories, poems, one-act plays, or ingenious innovations that
can't be fit neatly in categories will be welcome.  Reading times
should be limited to no more than 25 minutes.

Title of work:
(on a separate sheet, please attach a 200-250 word excerpt)
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            3 Oct 92 18:08:00 -0400 action Relayed
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:08:00 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Basic writing, again and again

Wini writes:

Rhythms do carry meaning and perhaps shape meaning;
they do carry cultural associations.  And etching those rhythms in the
brain, however it happens (creating new neural paths?) may well create
a template which may be used to generate new, but rhythmically familiar
utterances.

If any of this makes sense.

Makes a lot of sense.  It reminds me of Britton's description of templates
in _Language and Learning_.  Only in this case it might be hearing language
and learning.

nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:37:41 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Wyoming Resolution

 *** Reply to note of 10/05/92 09:48
 Stop me, stop me! Before I become a serial administrator. Hey, folks, I'm just
 joining another discourse community. Gotta practice.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:35:38 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

I periodically try to get my department to approve a course I've always
dreamed to teaching called "Memorizing Poetry."  We would avoid all standard
anthologies, using a combination of Palgrave's *Golden Treasury* and an
old collection called *Best Loved Poems of the American People*.  Students
would do no writing except writing a poem down each day that they had
memorized the night before.  The rest of the class would be devoted to
the reciting of these poems.  Poems like "Curfew Shall Not Ring Tonight,"
"The Highwayman," "Over the Hill to the Poor House," "The Cremation of
Sam McGee," "The Ballad of East and West," as well as lyrics like "Invictus,"
"Cynara," and "The Twa Corbies" as well as the usual Great Stuff by the
romantics, Shakespeare, etc.

No analysis.  Who cares what Johnny thinks of Keats?  The learn, they
write, they recite.  I venture to say that they come away richer.  But
strangely enough, each time I suggest this course my department colleagues
look at me as if I've gone mad.  Why, I wonder?

Bob C.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:54:35 EST
From:         "(Bob Child)" <vsf@SAGE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course (fwd)

Just in case anyone out there was planning on taking the much
advertised METANET course (which looked awfully suspicious to begin
with), I thought that I'd forward this message (pulled from NETTRAIN)
along.

-=-bob


> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
> It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
> professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
> privileges and announced a eletronic course:
>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> >        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
> >                      The InterMeta Course
> > ____________________________________________________________
>
> I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
> be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
> the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
> PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
> I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
> revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.
>
> Please write by normal mail, to:
> -> Gelson V. Gomes
> -> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
> -> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
> to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
> course by normal mail.  :-)
>
> With regards,
> --
> Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
> Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
> <gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
> (ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
> --
>


    --                                                          --
      Bob Child, Instructional Lab Coordinator, Heav 227 & SC 30
      Purdue University Computing Center / Department of English
      Internet: vsf@sage.cc.purdue.edu  /  Phone: (317) 742-7667
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:59:26 -0600
From:         "(Michael J. Day)" <mday@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Morphology of American Auto Sales (1)

Robert!

Loved your precise analysis of the auto industry's rhetorical
use of morphing.  However, all should know (if any care)
that the Japanese term coined for Bush's technicolor yawn
is "bushu suru" (pronounced "boo-shoo sooroo").  It has
been a big hit among my Japanese friends.

Looking forward to seeing y'all at EDUCOM, NCTE, MLA, CCCC, C & W,
etc., ad nauseum (i.e. "bushu shitai"),

Michael Day
mday@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:22:20 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

 *** Reply to note of 10/02/92 10:56
 Jeff, unless you expect each student to invent his/her own original version of
 English syntax, a student's sentences and structures will HAVE to be like so
 and so's at some level of grammatical analysis. We're talkng shared
 conventions here, the conventions that make communication possible.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:16:35 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wyoming Resolution

Warning: Epideictic Discourse Dump:

              Following Lizzie to ASU, where she was post-doctoring,
              I worked under (but soon with) Dave Schwalm, at a university
              that considered ten courses a year a 100% appointment
              at the rank of Faculty Associate.

              Throughout my two years, Dave constantly encouraged the FA's
              to organize themselves and to "lean" on the university adminis-
              trators to get them to address the damage that such exploitation
              creates not only for those teaching those loads, but those
              students having to take classes from overworked, often burnt out
              instructors.

              It is inconceivable to me that someone of such integrity and
              empathy could end up at the rank of Associate Provost.
              But there you go.

              The academy is a mess;  with dudes like Dave Schwalm capable
              of coaxing decision-making in ways suggested in his last post,
              perhaps there is hope after all.

                                                   Did I embarrass you, Dave?
                                                             tough!

                                                              mer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:20:12 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

 *** Reply to note of 10/02/92 07:25
 To a great extent, I suspect that sentence combining works pretty much the way
 that memorizing and copying work. Frank O'Hare used to have students rehearse
 combined sentences both in writing and in speech, trying all avenues to help
 students acquire the schemata of conventional syntax. It may be that reading
 contributes to our acquisition of syntax in much the same way. I don;t think
 I'd have fourth graders copying Gibbon, but they might do some copying in the
 context of exercises like those in Donna Gorrell's (?) text Copy-Write (I
 think that was the title). Many instructors distrust copying and sentence
 combining and memorization etc. because all work indirectly. But approaching
 grammar directly (I mean syntax mainly, not matters of mechanics) doesn't
 really work at all. Certainly no child ever learned to speak that way (OK,
 maybe a few).

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:52:37 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: ...and I thought heaven was Iowa

aah Dickie, that'll do it: I'll be in Michigan this weekend but only A2
unfortunately (sorry Bill et al but you KNOW why I left!).  My Up memories
include Taquamenon Falls in full fall glory, and a walk along the Painted
Rocks National Lakeshore one incredible October weekend the temps went into
the high 70s (and that night, as we drove back to A2, fell and fell until the
snow came behind us)
England in April and May
Colorado in June and January
Scotland in February
but Michigan in September and October
Liz
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:24:00 CDT
From:         Sarah Hollywood <YKFSH@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Phobias

Industrial Engineering or Psychology at Texas Tech did something on that. We als
o have a wonderful computer center that teaches classes and will take an entire
class. The students seem to do better when the whole class goes to the center.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:14:06 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Wyoming Resolution

Jim, I misread your message in an interesting way the first time through--
I thought that LACCC had voted to write Louisiana legislators, etc asking
that class sizes be increased to save money.  I immediately flashed on the
idea of each prof--writing profs & teachers especially--teaching nothing
but one 300-person lecture section.  The lectures consist of the teacher
reading aloud verbatim through McCrimmon.  There is no writing except one
final paper, which is graded in a single big workshop by another student.
Wow, could we pass those students in Louisiana through English fast if
we all taught lectures!  And it would be so immensely cheap!  All of the
teachers and students would appreciate the lessened workload.  Grades
would almost certainly improve.

What?  You say that wouldn't be good?  You say that we really have to
spend time with students, really read their writing, apply our knowledge
to their issues?

Well, then, it's cash on the barrelhead, Alphonse.

On rereading I saw that you had taken the much more rational step of
asking that class sizes not be increased.  I doubt it will work.  I wish
you the best with it, but rubbing their noses in the real results of what
they vote for may be what the legislators and people of Looziana need.

Bob C.
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:38:46 PDT
From:         Paul_J_LeBlanc@CUP.PORTAL.COM
Subject:      Class size

Lisa,

Springfield College is not a similar institution, but we
are doing the same belt tightening that so many institutions
are also doing.  Our cap in freshman writing is 25, but we
try to offer enough sections (and at the right times) to
keep the average around 20.  Special classes (upper division
writing, basic writing) are capped at 15.

Good luck,
Paul
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:48:03 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Jeff:

              It would apply to all levels.  The relationship between
              memorization and improvisation is now seen to be needed
              at the earliest stages of musical training: learning how
              phrases emerge spontaneously even when doodling up and down
              the c major scale on whatever instrument with whatever facility.

              Now I've tried to incorporate the parts of this pedagogy dealing
              with improvisation in the "Jazzwriting" stack in RHIZOME--but
              have not done much with the role of memorization or imitation
              except in having students write within the rhetorical form
              modelled in "Arguprompt" stack.

              So far, this conversation has been speculative on my part--
              drawing connections between Jazz pedagogy and the classical
              category of imitatio.  But I'm interested in the possiblity of
              a cognitive ground for the usefulness of this old techne.

              Perhaps Jim Porter would think that I need to cultivate more
              phronesis or prudence before indulging in such speculation ;-)

              But as William Blake once put it:

                            Prudence is an old maid courted by incapacity
                             (Please forgive the sexism of WB's remarks)

                                                  mer
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X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.TTU.EDU"  "Megabyte University"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:16:30 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Jazz and New Age

I once talked to someone who gave me something sorta like this:

"When I got too old for rock and roll, I figured I had to make some kind
of choice about the music I'd listen to as an adult.  On the one hand
there was classical music, and on the other hand there was jazz.  As I
saw it, on the one hand you had music that had been carefully crafted
by highly trained masters to achieve the greatest possible number of
emotional and intellectual responses, that utilized the complete
range of instruments that had been invented by the most technically
brilliant culture that existed in the world, that was played in
varied groups of people who were trained in this advanced technique
from early ages until each was was an accomplished virtuoso, that
tapped into a tradition hundreds of years in the building.  On the
other hand, you had music based on a bunch of folk themes played by
people who were making it up as they went along."

This is just to say that there are differing perspectives on what
constitutes value in music.  While I would never put forward the
proposition that George Winston is as musically challenging as John
Coltrane, I go to Winston's music for something very different from
what Coltrane offers.  Similarly, I sometimes wish to essay
*Finnegans Wake* and sometimes feel like re-reading old Travis McGee
books.  Audio wallpaper has its uses, and they're legitimate uses.
Jazz *is* (as its supporters never cease from reminding everyone) the
most intellectual of musics, but the fact that New Age music has become
so popular so quickly should tip us off that there are many needs that
music can fulfill.  Only intellectual elitism would say that some are
more legitimate than others.

I put this forward not to try to confute Martin's nice explication of
the role of form in Jazz, which I agree with, but to question what can
be our academic default setting on almost everything--which is to say
that the form of art that makes you think hardest and work most is
automatically the best.

Bob C.
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Resent-Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:21:07 CDT
Reply-To:     Project Gutenberg Email List <GUTNBERG@UIUCVMD.BITNET>
Comments:     Resent-From: "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Comments:     Originally-From: "Michael S. Hart" <HART@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GUTNBERG@UIUCVMD
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Email and Time Zones

Forwarding to MBU at the request of original sender.  dhr

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
If you are sending me email from time zones more than a few hours from
Central USA, you might want to precede the subject with !!!! to get my
attention.  This will help because my email is sorted by date and when
it has tomorrow's or yesterday's date on it, it sometimes gets buried,
way down deep in the 400+ pieces of email currently in my mail.

Please forward this and post it wherever my email address is posted or
our etexts are posted.  Warning:  by 1993 I may not be able to answer,
at least not answer ALL notes I receive.
=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:06:11 PDT
From:         Paul_J_LeBlanc@CUP.PORTAL.COM
Subject:      programming languages

You can add me the short list of English doctorates that
have a programming language as one of the foriegn languages
required -- Turbo Pascal in my case.

I was inspired by Fred's case and my dissertation research was
on software design in composition studies--so it made much sense
to me and seemed to befuddle the grad. studies committee at the
University of Massachusetts.  Luckily, I had a strong and well
respected committee to back me up on my request.

I wouldn't be surprised if the committee would also view their
decision as a mistake (as Fred's thinks the UT folk would -- and
I mean the grad, studies committee by the way).
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