From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Adventurers? (was Re: Carrying weapons..(was Re: META: Swords..))
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:37:38 MDT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: Utah State University

In response to the several people who followed up to this discussion:

First, I'm genuinely sorry if I touched a nerve. I know that nobody likes
to think they're taking shortcuts in their games, but by scrambling for
obscure examples from history and literature, you've really only reinforced
my original conviction.

But before I go into that, let me clarify what it is I was being critical
of. 

Player-friendly worlds -- Right I know, you're saying, ``Well, aren't 
campaign worlds SUPPOSED to be player-friendly?'' What I mean is worlds
that are created for, exist for, and dominated by PCs. In my experience, 
these worlds usually look like a medieval worlds, but certain aspects
have been changed to make the world ``funner'' for PCs. Some examples
are those things I've mentioned before -- magic shops, female PCs, 
institutionalized adventuring, no adherance to class structure (or class
structure that favors PCs), assured upward mobility for PCs, and of 
course the classic exampe of fully stocked dungeons waiting to be looted.
I'm sure that there are more examples of such player-friendly features,
and I'm sure some of them are like the ones above, only more complex
(with accompanying complex justifications). 

That's what really rings a sour note with me when it comes to RPGs. I've
played and GMed in such worlds, and I really find them unsatisfying. It's
like playing in a world where all the towns are like movie lots. It doesn't
take much effort at all to see the fake fasade. But that is my opinion.

Now in response to the half dozen or so who responded with examples from
history and literature -- nice tries, but you're reaching. There was one
noteable example (I think it was Loren). The Conan books are (sort of)
set in worlds where adventuring is institutionalized (somewhat), but it's 
still very different from the traditional player-friendly world found in 
RPG campaigns.

The rest of the examples (Around the World, Aladdin, Lancelot, Greek mythos,
Gullaver, etc.) -- those are just examples of adventurers (even though they
weren't called adventurers) I have yet to hear of an example of the type of
WORLD that RPGs are sometimes set in. Scrambling around to come up with 
examples just goes to show how bad you want to justify the existance of 
campaign worlds that are created for, exsist for and revolve around PCs. I
hope this is clear, it's getting kind of late. 

And I hope you'll forgive me for not following up here for a few days, I
don't get around to these parts too often these days. OH -- before I go, 
there is another thing that has bothered me ever since I started playing
RPGs. 

Okay, when I was about 8, I bought a little bag of plastic monsters
from the drug store. The monsters looked Japanese, like those you'd see
going up against Godzilla. Anyway, about 4 years later, my brother 
introduces me to AD&D. One day, I am thumbing throught the Monster Manual,
and when I look at some of the monsters, I feel like I am having serious
Deja Vu. Then it hits me -- I run to the basement where a buch of my old
junk is stored, and YES. There are the monsters in the Monster Manual. Some
of them that I can remember are -- the rust monster, the umber hulk, and the
bullete (sp?). Now, can anyone explain this? I got these little toys at 
least 4 years before I even saw a D&D book, and yet there they were -- the
spitting images of the D&D monsters. By way of more background, the monsters
were about an inch and a half long/tall on the average, and were one-piece
injection-molded plastic (like the little army men, cowboys, or farm animals
that used to be so common). One of the monsters was sort of a copy of
Godzilla. I am pretty sure they were made in Japan, and I think the package
said ``Dinosaurs'' on it. Comments? Explanations?

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``Gentlemen!  You can't fight in 
here, this is the War Room!''   --Stanley Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc