HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: palmer@sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer)
Subject: Re: rumor concerning Saturn's rings
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:43:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.200106.1@stsci.edu> gawne@stsci.edu writes:

>Along empirical lines, when I worked with the FAA on low light level
>vision experiments, I asked a number of Air Traffic Controler candidates
>to tell me if they could see anything unusual about Jupiter.  Of all
>these people who had excellent (20/20) vision nobody ever noticed 
>Jovian moons.  Sure, I sometimes *think* I see Ganymede or Callisto
>but wouldn't bet on it until I check with binoculars.  I think that
>the glare of Jupiter is the big problem.  Somebody else mentioned
>astigmatism, but according to my last eye exam I don't have that
>problem.  It also may be that Leigh has the benefit of looking thru
>the clear air of British Columbia while I usually worked north of
>Dallas or here in Baltimore.

Let me dispel two myths. I have middling good eyesight and I have
never been able to see Jovian satellites with my unaided eye, even
with foreknowledge of maximum elongation, blocking Jupiter's light
with a building or treetrunk, confirmation with binoculars, etc.
It appears I haven't tried all the tricks yet, and I'll try for a 
conjunction of the two outer satellites sometime. My principal
problems are a mag 5 floor on sensitivity under dark skies (I'm 57)
and myopia, which requires the wearing of corrective lenses.

The other myth is that the air in *all* of BC is clear. Vancouver
is a smoggy city. We don't quite rival LA, Denver, or Phoenix yet,
but we've just started testing motor vehicles for exhaust standards.
I consider myself an authority on this matter, incidentally. I was
raised in LA, so I've seen photochemical smog first hand and often.
Simon Fraser University sits on a 360 meter hill overlooking 
Vancouver and the Fraser River Valley. We can see the ugly red-
brown blanket many days a year from here. It's much harder for the
person in smog to notice it because of the phenomenon of vision
known as "color constancy". The tipoff is that the sky is not blue
for the smog dweller; it's whitish.

Leigh
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: andromed@cs.dal.ca (Mike Boschat)
Subject: Saturn Observation Oct. 6/7
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:00:03 GMT


  Saturn observation of Oct.6/7 from 00 h 30 m to 0100 UT..

    The planet image was very steady and I could use up to 228x on the 8 cm
 refractor. The usual details where seen;

  1. Shadow of the rings on the globe, seen as a very dark line.
  2. Shadow of the globe on the rings.
  3. Cassini Division.
  4. The NTB still dark, looked light brown in color
  5. The bright Equatorial Zone.
  6. Diffuse south polar shading.
  7. Ring A shading ?
  8. Titan and Rhea, in which Titan had a small disk.

  Observations were made with an 8cm refractor using powers of 154x to
 228x, no filters used.
 Lat; N 44^ 39'
 Long; W 63^ 36'
 Height; 58 meters above sea level.


						Clear skies

						Mike Boschat

 -------------------------------------------------------------------
| " Our problems are man-made,             |  JOHN F. KENNEDY       |
|   therefore they can be solved by man."  |                        |
|                                          | ASTRONOMY  OBSERVATORY |
|                   JOHN F. KENNEDY        |                        |    
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter.Kocourek@p13.f112.n100.z60.wlink.nl (Peter Kocourek)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: STRUCTURE OF TIME
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 23:21:04 -0100

In a message of <05 Oct 92  20:21:00>, FRED W. BACH writes:

 FW> While this newsgroup is not supposed to be used for the
 FW> promelgation of religion,  what would it hurt if some knowledgeable
 FW> net-historians/gurus etc. were to discuss the religious views of
 FW> famous scientists (deceased) for the general edification (historical)
 FW> of all of us? This is a topic that I would find interesting, and I'm
 FW> sure there are lot of people out there with this special information,
 FW> which may not have even been published.

Go ahead, but please do not do it in this newsgroup. It is supposed to be dedicated to astronomy, not the history of science. It would also help if this newsgroup were not abused by crackpots who claim to have discovered the Ultimate Truth about the universe from drawings of a five-year old. How stupid can you get? Sheesh...

To those who do contribute real astronomy to this newsgroup, I would like to say that I appreciate reading it, despite the clutter of nonsensical messages. I am currently pussyfooting around GR and cosmology myself, and may have some questions later on.


YHS:QSI!

Xref: sparky sci.astro:10707 alt.alien.visitors:7402
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:14:45 GMT
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct13.175901.1730@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>                            UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan

Bob, can you post this stuff to alt.alien.visitors and leave the
astronomers alone? In the meantime, I have a couple of comments
and have set the followup-to field. Please respect it.

>                I should think that by now he would have heard about the 
>           Roswell Incident in which UFO WRECKAGE and ALIEN BODIES were 
>           found on a ranch (in New Mexico, I think), gathered up by the 
>           U.S. military, and hidden away in an Air Force hanger 
>           somewhere.

Perhaps the New Mexico stuff is a hoax? Do you have more knowledge of
this wreckage than Carl Sagan does? Perhaps you've seen it yourself?

>	    The wreckage included materials NOT KNOWN on Earth,

Different elements? Different colors? Different alloys? Different flavors?
How was it determined that they were NOT KNOWN on Earth?

> and some of it even had ALIEN SYMBOLS written on it.  

Hmm. What makes a symbol ALIEN, as opposed to human produced? Can you
show me a symbol that must have been made by an alien, that couldn't
be faked by a human?

>           All of this was witnessed by many People, both civilian and 
>           military.  A couple of years ago, the TV program "Unsolved 
>           Mysteries" showed an excellent segment about the incident. 

Sigh. Carl Sagan on TV isn't believable, but "Unsolved Mysteries" is.
If Sagan were dead, he'd be spinning in his grave. As it is, he probably
just lost his appetite.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: grd5005@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: looking for lunar occultations software
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:32:13 GMT



Hi,

I am looking for information on free or commercial software for 
calculating  the  times  of  lunar  occultations with very high 
precision,  as well as for calculating  the positions  of small
planets.   Also, information on how to order  NASA CD-ROM's  is
very appreciated.

Please e-mail me or post to this group.

Thank you in advance for any info.


Georgi Mandushev

Department of Astronomy, Saint Mary's University

e-mail:  grd5005@husky1.stmarys.ca
From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Meteor Showers ...
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:49:06 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <6OCT92131247@tiamat.hacks.arizona.edu> omf@tiamat.hacks.arizona.edu writes:

>Hi all, I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this, but
>where can I get information on upcoming meteor showers?  I'm an

The next major shower is the Orionids, peaking around October 21.
There is a suspected second peak a few days later.

Rolf
From: njzy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (T. Joseph Lazio, Cornell University)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: A 100 Billion?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:09:04 EDT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1959@shaman.wv.tek.com>,
harmons@mithril.wv.tek.com (Harmon Sommer) writes: 
> A local newspaper article on SETI mentioned that there are 100 Billion stars
> in our solar system. How is this quantity arrived at? 
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    later corrected to Galaxy...

 The above estimate can be derived by a couple of simple steps.
 The distance of the Sun from the center of the Galaxy is about 8.5 kpc
 (2.8E4 lt yrs.) and its period about the center is about 2.5E8 yrs.

 Use the above two facts with Kepler's Third Law (assume that the 
 mass of the Sun is insignificant compared to that of the Galaxy) 
 and one finds that the mass of the Galaxy, interior to the solar 
 circle, is something like 1.0E11 solar masses.

 Now assume that all stars are about 1 solar mass and we obtain 
 an estimate of 100 billion (1.0E11) stars.

-- 
 T. Joseph Lazio                | Why relativity? and Why  
 514 Space Sciences             | turbulence?  I really believe   
 Ithaca, NY  14853-6801         | [God] will have an answer for the
 (607) 255-6420                 | first [question].
 lazio@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu  |   -- W. Heisenberg, on his death bed
ICBM:                           |
 42 deg. 20' 08" N              |              STOP RAPE
 76 deg. 28' 48" W              |
From: wallacen@cs.colostate.edu (nathan wallace)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Summary: Possible explanation for "UFO EVIDENCE"
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:14:41 GMT
Reply-To: wallacen@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department


This is a brief post to note that an interesting book called OUT THERE (I'm afraid
I forget the author, but he's a famous muckraking journalist) suggests that the
evidence mentioned in the post was deliberately fabricated by a government UFO
debunking group as an "initiation" for new members. Although his documentation
is interesting, the author claims SETI has already succeeded, and similar
hogwash. This reduces the believability of his other claims, but to me it is
still an interesting theory. 

Let me make clear I do not believe in UFO's, ESP, or similar garbage. My 
fascination is patterns and analysis (grad student in computer science) and
the whole UFO nonsense needs a coherent explanation to put it to rest. Hopefully
SETI will pay off and we can put the crackpots to bed with real science.

Nathan Wallace  

wallacen@cs.colostate.colorado.edu

My opinions are my own darned business!
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Subject: Re: ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:23:26 GMT

In article <1atg0aINNsia@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> bafta@cats.ucsc.edu (Shari L Brooks) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct6.165819.1560@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu 
>writes:
>
>>
>>                      ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission
>>
>This is all I need to quote.  Warning!  This fella has been posting his
>propaganda to sci.space as well.  There, he claimed that there was nothing
>short of a full scale battle on the moon between the Russian and *Bolshevik*
>American moon bases, with the Russians winning (because of their JUMBO
>COSMOSPHERES).  So *please* don't take him seriously, he is more cracked
>than Hannu ever dreamed...
>

Check out comp.misc.  He's starting to go on about the EVIL conspiracy
between bar CODES and the NUMBER of the BEA$T!!  :)

These people are almost like an electronic hydra.  One drops off
the net and two more appear.


--
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,|McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com
     In the midst of his laughter and glee,   |Me, speak for Compaq?  
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---   |Yeah, right.
     For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.   |#include <stddisclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Diesen sphere or Strungen Sphere
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:22:23 GMT

carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) writes:

>In article <Bw0poC.E4z@Novell.COM>, steve_olson@npd.novell.com writes:
>> Does anyone know any thing about a Diesen sphere or a Strungen Sphere? 
>> It is supposed to be a sphere with a star in the middle. 

>Named after Freeman Dyson, who postulated it would be built by a
>civilization that needed all the energy of their star. They would
>therefore enclose their star in artifact in order to capture the
>energy.

Can someone explain to a poor engineer how this is done?  Ignoring the design
and assembly for the moment, a short spell with an envelope and the apendix of
an astronomy text tells me the following:

A Dyson sphere with a radius of one A.U. (as postulated in the Start Trek 
episode to which the poster refered - it's also a nice round number) and 1 km
thick would require about 10e17 cubic km of materials. 

Earth has a volume close to 10e12 cubic km.  Jupiter is about 100 times bigger.

Where is there enough stuff to build out of?


-- 
Josh Hopkins                                          jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
	 The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:48:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Oct14.194828.10879
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

DPierce@world.std.com (Richard d Pierce) writes:
: In article <1992Oct13.175901.1730@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu
: writes:
: >               This is supposed to be a FREE country.  FREEDOM OF 
: >          SPEECH is guaranteed by the highest law of the land.  The 
: >          government (and its military) is supposed to be of, by, and 
: >          for The People, NOT the other way around.  
: 
: This IS a free country. That's why you're able to post these incredibly
: stupid articles and receive the ridicule you so richly deserve with no
: trouble whatsoever!

No, it is only some unthinking people think this is a free country. Granted,
we have more freedom of speach than many other countries. However - that is
about all. Most everything is regulated/controlled/prohibited by government.

Freedom to complain does not make a person free.

Bill
Newsgroups: sci.astro,dc.general
From: tstark@access.digex.com (Timothy M. Stark)
Subject: Re: Green Object at the night sky last weekend
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:18:07 GMT

Hello Everyone:
     Last Friday, I went home from Landmark Center Mall before 8 pm by walking.
I looked up at the sky and found the weird object. Its description is huge
yellowish moon-shaped object with bluish white flickering around its edge. 
Its shape is changing itself in some time. It is near as bright as moon but
is bigger than orginial moon! It moved northeastern slowly. A few minutes
later, I looked up at it again and noticed that its shape is changing slowly.
It looks like blimp with moving sideway or odd-shaped football. It is getting
smaller and smaller and went away from me. I arrived near home and looked up 
at it again. It get very tiny and is very low in the sky. It would hit 
somewhere. Indeed, that was meteorite that hit New York state. It was
extremely fast! It took a few minutes to hit New York from here.

      Does anyone have suggestions about? I am looking for pictures of them. 
Where can I find pictures or machine-readable pictures? If so, I will
appericate that. Thank you!

-- Tim Stark


-- 
Timothy Stark               Internet1: tstark@access.digex.com (Preferred)
837 North Van Dorn St       Internet2: tstark@netcom.com
Alexandria, Va. 22304-2723  TDD Phone Number: (703) 212-9731
"Washington, DC is the most deaf population!! -- Gallaudet University"
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: hathaway@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Observing Venus in daylight
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:31:19 GMT

> In article <1992Oct6.092157.10785@hsr.no> frank@hsr.no (Frank A Stevenson) writes:
> 
> ] 	I would like to hear from people who have observed Venus in daylight
> ] under similar conditions in order to find out what I am doing wrong. Have I
> ] simply overlooked Venus or is the apperature to small. Any help would be
> ] appreciated.
> 
  One other consideration (which another poster hinted at) is the difficulty 
of focussing on a point source at infinity surrounded by an otherwise 
featureless sky.  I've often tried to spot Venus or another bright planet 
or a star as soon as possible near sunset.  Until the eye focuses on the 
light, one can stare and stare in the right direction and not notice it.  
Once it is picked up, the common reaction is to feel "it's so obvious - how 
could I have missed _that_!".  If you're using binoculars, make sure you 
have a good infinity focus on some distant object before sweeping in the 
direction your calculations predict.  I have had good luck observing near 
an airport where there are distant airplanes almost always visible to 
focus on.  Also good for picking up thin moon crescents.  

Good luck and keep trying --- WHH - another night spacing out ---
From: asnd@msr.triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: OOOPS
Date: 14 Oct 1992 17:27 -0700
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: msr.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1963@shaman.wv.tek.com>, harmons@mithril.wv.tek.com (Harmon Sommer) writes...
>OOOPS. I goofed. Newspaper article said 100 Billion stars in our galaxy, not
>in our solar system. But I still wonder who counted them.

They just caounted the number of times Carl Sagan said Billyuns and Billyuns.

D
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Meteoryite hits car in New York state
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero)
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:50:38 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA

In article <MOERSCH.92Oct12060637@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU>, moersch@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jeff Moersch) writes:
|> In article <28666@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
|> 
|> >  From an AP article in the Sunday Denver Post: Michelle Knapp, 18,
|> >  of Peekskill, NY, heard a loud crash, Friday, that shook the windows of her
|> >  house. Her 1980 Chevy Malibu had suffered a hole straight through the trunk. 
|> >  (Repo Man?) A small crater was seen in the ground underneath. The meteorite 
|> >  was still "pretty hot" and was found to weigh 30 lbs and measured about 
|>               ^^^^^^^^^^
|> >  1 foot in diameter.
|> 
|> Very strange.  The director of the Center for Meteorite Studies at
|> Arizona State U. loves to talk about how he can always tell if a
|> reported fall is a hoax because people who aren't describing a true
|> meteorite hit invariably describe the sample as "still hot" when they
|> found it, when in fact actual meteorites are usually very *cold*.  As
|> he described it, only the outermost layer heats up on entry to the
|> earth's atmosphere, and the rest of the rock is still the temperature
|> it was in space - cold.  So immediately after landing, the hot outer
|> layer gets cooled down from the cold inside, and the whole thing feels
|> cold when you pick it up.
|> 

  How much heat would it pick up from converting the kinetic energy of
the actual impact?






<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  "The great masses of people. . .will more easily fall                 |
|  victims to a big lie than to a small one."                            |
|                                          --Adolf Hitler                |
|                                                                        |
|   "All men are potential rapists, and that's _all_ they are!"          |
|                                 -- Susan Brownmiller                   |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From: brown@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Pat R. Brown)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:19:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Meteor Showers ...
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Meteoryite hits car in New York state
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:35:18 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <MOERSCH.92Oct12060637@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU> moersch@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jeff Moersch) writes:

>meteorite hit invariably describe the sample as "still hot" when they
>found it, when in fact actual meteorites are usually very *cold*.  As
>he described it, only the outermost layer heats up on entry to the
>earth's atmosphere, and the rest of the rock is still the temperature
>it was in space - cold.  So immediately after landing, the hot outer
>layer gets cooled down from the cold inside, and the whole thing feels
>cold when you pick it up.

In most of the documented cases I have read about, the meteorite 
feels warm just after landing.  Check out News Notes in Sky and Telescope
over the last couple of years for some reports.  In one case, the
meteorite landed in a garden in England and was detected by an
older gentlemen, and in another case it fell in a front yard 
in the U.S. somewhere and was observed by 2 boys.

______________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier					Mitel Corporation
From: ramhcl@suncap.Corp.Sun.COM (Ramprakash Narayanaswamy)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Looking for books
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:22:42 GMT
Reply-To: ramhcl@suncap.Corp.Sun.COM (Ramprakash Narayanaswamy)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suncap.corp.sun.com


I am looking for some formulae to calculate planetary postions and
house cuspal positions.

I would like someone to recommend me good books.

Any help in this regard will highly be appreciated.

feel free to e-mail me.

Thanks in advance.

Ram.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: brown@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Pat R. Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Re: Meteor Showers ...
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:26:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpspkla.30300006
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.

Darned VI .....

Could you give a more complete review of this book? I have been lusting 
over it in a catalog and the description is is too short. At $25 for a 
paperback it is too steep to gamble on soooooo Any info would be much 
appreciated. I am an amateur in this field but I hold an engineering   
degree and have a reasonable understanding of the pure sciences so the 
more technical the review the better. 

THANKS! Pat
From: bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Atmospheric light scattering outcome
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:06:36 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: bowen@castor.cs.buffalo.edu


In article <1992Oct6.174839.2375@sfu.ca>, palmer@sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer) writes:
> I conclude that it is valuable to hold sky sessions even when observing 
> conditions are not very good. If they are kept short there are plenty of 
> things to see.

All of my initial observing was done right in the middle of the city. I
got tired of looking at the moon all the time so I tried to find some star
clusters (didn't even know what they looked like at the time). After 10
minutes or so of star hopping I finally saw a dim smudge. After looking at
it for a bit the stars started popping out and I'd found my first cluster.
Since then I've seen nebula, galaxies, globulars, comets, etc, all right
in the city. It's doable. You just need to be patient and not expect the
awesome views you'll get under good skies.

Of course, you can imagine my surprise when I later saw these things under
dark skies... 8-)

Devon