From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Avoid the Amiga 4000
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Oct  1 1992
Date: 11 Oct 92  10:11:00

> Organization: ANet Test Bench, Karlstad, Sweden
> From: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
> Message-ID: OD.6badnetOA92-901-302p0_5134449a@piraya.bad.se
> Reply-To: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
>
[My deleted quote]
>
> Not quite. While the AGA chipset does offer flicker-free video via the
> Double-
> NTSC/PAL resolutions, it *requires* applications written specifically with
> support for these modes via the graphics screenmode-database. What about
> all
> the existing applications (both commercial and freely distributable
> software)
> that is hardcoded to use Hires with (often optional) Interlace? Those will
> be

According to many, the A4000 has an option to "promote" screens to non-
interlaced/double-scaned resolutions, and this works with most software.  For
other software, there is a little program that will patch into OpenScreenTags
and force the opening of flickerfree modes.  That would seem to be able to
catch just about everything, except for games.  I dont think it will be
problem.  All the major application software that doesnt already work right
will be fixed real soon.

> running interlaced. Flickering. On the A4000, that is. Only the A3000, you
> will get a sharp steady flickerfixed display using the same
> piece of software.
> Video work can be done with both a flickerfixed 31Khz montior picture and
> a
> 15Khz video/genlocked video signal at the same time.

This is somewhat convienient.

The thing is, people just arent *thinking* this out.  Just think about it -
adding a flicker fixer to the A4000.  First, you dont NEED one, as long as
software properly accesses the display-database.  Secondly, an A4000 flicker
fixer would require at least twice as much ram (24 bit palette now, up from
12 bits in ECS) and would make the cost of the A4000 go up.. and its only
use would be to "fix" those pieces of software that dont properly use the
OS.  Thirdly, if the A4000 HAD a flicker-fixer, people would be complaining
that it couldn't flicker-fix the 800 x 600 and 1280 x 400 modes (never
bothering to think about the fact that Amber would have to pump out twice
the number of pixels per second, plus have 4 times as much ram and access
it 4 times as rapidly) and that it cost $3500 (or more).

> Yes, but that will take up one Zorro III slot in the A4000, as the video

You dont need a flicker-fixer on the A4000.

> slot
> is located in-line with one Zorro III slot. Only three left. And then, you
> probably need that SCSI host adaptor card too. Only two

Well, I was talking about what the A3000 had.

And what is your definition of "need"?  I think most people probably only
have one harddrive, with an average speed.  IDE will be plenty sufficient
for these people.  If you MUST have multiple harddrives and break-neck speed
(and have the bucks to buy multiple, large, fast SCSI-II drives), then get
the SCSI-II card (they better get it out there, soon, though).

> left. What if you have
> three cards already in your A3000, will be pretty hard to upgrade then.

They'll fit, because you dont need a flicker fixer.

I would hope that they make an A4000 Tower, though, for people who need the
expansion (and, heck, that would be a perfect opertunity to put the SCSI
back...)

> The A4000 cannot host a genlock AND a flicker-fixer at the
> same time, to allow
> you to work with video and still have a flickerfixed monitor picture to
> work
> with, because although the video slot has improved in the A4000, it is
> only

Thats not a graphics mode (perhaps I should have prefixed "mode" with
"graphics" to avoid confusion).  While that would be convienient, I dont
think its that big of a deal.

> one slot. It cannot host two video slot cards at the same time. Perhaps
> you
> can find a genlock with builtin flickerfixer...

Wouldnt GVP's Impact Vision 24 accomplish this task?  As I recall, it
flicker-fixes Amiga video, genlocks, framebuffs at 24 bits, does PIP, etc.

> But the real problem, which Marc is refering to, is that the A4000 cannot
> produce non-interlace hires-interlace resolutions, that the A3000 can,
> with
> the help of the flicker-fixer. This is a quite important
> features, considering
> the wast array of applications that use this display mode currently!

Uh..  non-interlace interlaced resolution???  You mean like, 640 x 400?
There isnt one single display mode that the A3000 can produce that the
A4000 cannot.  I'm talking the actual hardware here.  Some *software* may
not be bright enough to access it (yet), but thats not Commodore's fault.

> That is a matter of opinion. I think a flicker-fixer for hires-interlace
> mode
> would be really nice, although I do realise the extra cost of such a
> device.

By "hires-interlace", do you mean 1280 x 400?  That would be called "super
hires interlace".  The extra cost could be significant.  See above.  4 x the
memory, double the pixel rate, 4 times memory bandwidth.  If they were to do
something like that, they might as well go all the way and make a 24 bit
chipset (this flicker fixer for the A4000 would basicly be a 24 bit frame-
buffer).

> Sorry, but I disagree. Sure, it would be nice if applications would
> support
> the displaydatabase and be able to use any screen resolution. But most
> applications does not support this. For instance, I love CygnusEd Pro, but
> on
> an A4000 it will operate in interlaced mode -- and there is no
> flickerfixer
> that will convert it to a non-lace display. It would be useless, I'm
> afraid.

Are you *sure*?  With the promotion feature, and that little patch, it might
work flicker-free.  I dont have an A4000 to test it, unfortunately.

> Although I don't agree with Marc in everything he says, I think he was
> quite
> right this time. For people like me, that wants higher non-lace
> resolutions
> rather than lots of colours, the A3000 seems to be a better deal.
> Especially
> as the A3000 prices are dropping steady right now!

Well, if thats what you want, go for it.  A3000's have pretty nice price tags
now.  Personaly, I will go with an A4000 if I can get some money soon..


--- Maximus 2.00