HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: royce@splunge.uucp (Royce Howland)
Subject: Re: RightBrain ad in Fall '92 NeXTWORLD
Organization: Ashley, Howland & Wood
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:50:21 GMT

lemson@fnbc.com (David Lemson) writes:

>In article <1992Jul24.222227.533@Trirex.COM> mmelling @Trirex.com(Michael  
>Mellinger) writes:
>> [... NeXT people already know about PasteUp ...]
>> 
>[... not necessarily ...]
>I vote for a small ad in NeXTWorld (I mean, hey, if the magazine is going  
>to give them free advertising in the form of a page review of it, why not  
>just put in a smaller ad - of course, they probably only put the review in  
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>on the condition that they put in the huge display ad, I don't want to  
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>know about the politics of the magazine) and a large ad in a more widely  
>read magazine for whatever target audience they're going for with PasteUp.

I don't work for NeXTWORLD, or any other magazine, but I believe any
mag that practiced this sort of business would very quickly go out of
any kind of business.

Reviews are printed as a service to the readership, and a means to
attract them, not as an advertising ploy.  Many reviews are written by
free-lancers, too, who are less susceptible to control by publications.
If the mag forced vendors to take big display ads before any reviews
were printed, vendors would not advertise, and free-lance reviewers
would take their articles elsewhere.  Therefore no reviews.  Therefore
readers would have fewer reasons to buy the mag.  No revenues to the
mag from vendors, nor from readers, therefore Chapter 11.

Simplistic, yes.  :~)  But I think the gist is there.  Or am I living
in a dream world?

Finally, who says the review will even be favorable?  I quote without
permission, but with lots of impunity, from the OS/2 2.0 mini-review
appearing in the new Byte I just got today:  "Blah, blah, blah.  Its
[OS/2's] weaknesses?  Performance, stability, and ease of use don't
meet the high standards IBM set with OS/2 1.3.  Blah, blah, blah.
There's gold in 2.0, and power users will mine it as we always have.
But the job requires more digging than most folks will want to do."
Not exactly a glowing review in a magazine that has accepted lots of
IBM advertising dollars over the years.

By the way, to address the subject line, I, too, think the PasteUp ad
is way cool.  I have no need for a DTP package, really, but I'm tempted
to run out and buy the thing anyway.  This industry needs more humor.
And more Insanely Great Apps.  RightBrain may offer both.  :~) (No, I
don't work for RightBrain, either.)
-- 
Royce Howland   --   Everything is IMHO   |  "I can eat enormous quantities
royce@splunge.uucp        (NeXTMail OK)   |   of ice-cream without being sick,
or royce%splunge@atlantis.uucp            |   Mrs. S-C-U-M."  --Mr. Neutron
or alberta!atlantis!splunge!royce or ...  |   C86Net: Mr._Neutron@RT.Alta
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: dlw@atherton.com (Remo Williams)
Subject: Re: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?
Organization: Atherton Technology, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:59:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.155949.6961@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito.Stanford.EDU (M  
Carling) writes:
> In article <Bs2JFJ.J5z@atherton.com> dlw@atherton.com (Remo Williams)  
> writes:
> > The *REAL* question is will NeXT provide a trade-in policy to migrate  
> users to  
> > the NRW. That means swapping a users Cube for a nicely discounted NRW  
> "brick".
> 
> 
> Don't hold your breath. What do you suppose NeXT would want to do with  
> several thousand used cubes? 

The same thing that HP does with several thousand used classic HP 3000's et al.
One approach would be to donate them to some of the various groups that are  
aking for "old" technology to bring computing to the former Soviet Block  
countries and the third world.

>Customers would be much better off putting an  
> NRW on their desks and using their cubes as servers.

Well I'm sure NeXT would be happy if they did that. As to customers being  
"better off" I'm not sure. I *might* go for it if I could get a stripped,  
discounted, NRW--No disk just a reasonable amount of memory. The question is  
how much will 32 megs of memory cost for the NRW? 

All in all I think I'd rather have a trade in.
> 
> M Carling
> Director, Bay Area NeXT Group
> --
> Bill Clinton lied to his wife. How can his country trust him?
> George Bush lied to his country. How can his wife trust him?

Hey what about the rumor about Bush and his "Gennifer"? Wouldn't that mean he's  
lied to his country AND his wife?
--
David Williams -- dlw@atherton.com -- NeXTMail welcome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: drew@fnbc.com (Drew Davidson)
Subject: Re: NeXT at SigGraph
Reply-To: drew@fnbc.com
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:26:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.042341.2993@spool.cs.wisc.edu> ronp@jomby.cs.wisc.edu  
(Ron Peterson) writes:
> I didn't see any NeXT computers at SigGraph in Chicago.  There were plenty
> of SGI machines, Suns, DECStations, RS-6000s, and Macintoshes.
> 
> 	Ron

One of the sales people here in Chicago told me that there was no NeXT presence  
(at least no booth) at SIGGRAPH, but they had people running around.   
Considering some of the stuff that is there, NeXT really would have very little  
to show that would be of any consequence.  The RenderMan stuff in 3.0PR2 is  
pretty much rough and not presentable as no modeling software exists yet.  Some  
of the things that I've seen on the Mac (Pixar's Showplace for example), and  
the Alias Research stuff for SGI machines are unbelievable!  Pixar has a new  
product called Typestry (sp?) that turns Adobe Type-1 and TrueType (barf) fonts  
into 3D renderman objects which could have wonderful consequences for us...

Oh, well.  I suppose that comp.graphics will be the place to get new product  
summaries and reports on the convention...

--
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|        Drew  Davidson          | The perfect development team:             |
|         Software Guy           | One person paid per line of code written  |
| First National Bank of Chicago | and another paid per line of code removed |
|     drew@fnbc.com  (NeXTmail)  |                     - Frank Mitchell      |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: $$$ NeXT Developer Support $$$
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:50:52 GMT

Andrew Duchowski writes
> In article <1992Jul18.181804.1814@tetrasoft.com> Joseph R. Grace  
> <jgrace@TetraSoft.com> writes:
> >[..]
> > You pointed out 2 more problems of which I hadn't thought.  Here's yet  
> another.  
> > This policy clearly favors big development shops at the expense of the  
> small  
> > ones (If I had 100 developers and funneled all questions through my 2  
> contacts,  
> > the support contract cost would cost $40/developer for unlimited  
> questions ---  
> > and cost per developer diminishes as I add developers!  But for the  
> small guys,  
> > it's $225 a question or $3500/1 developer.
> >[..]
> 
> I am not a registered developer, but I can sympathize with all of
> you.  I personally make use of c.s.n.misc and I must thank all of
> you for good replies to even some of my stupider questions.
> 
> So, wouldn't this be a good idea:
>   All the developers get together, designate 2 as the contacts, 
>   dish out the $3500 and effectively screw this latest bogus 
>   action by Next.  If you get 100 developers, the cost will be
>   $35 per developer for a whole year of questions.  On the other
>   side of the coin, all these developers effectively boycot this
>   $225 price since there'll be only 2 developers asking questions.
> 
> At least that would be a good message to next that the $225/question
> is kind of high.


Hey this is the way:
	We pitch in and create a psuedo user on a machine, and register this  
fiction as a support contact.  
	Anyone sends mail to the psuedo user, it invokes MH or some similar  
program that puts a, 
	Dear ask_next.  One of my users sent me the following question:
Begin forwarded message:
	...
End message
	What should I tell him?
	J. Random Contact.


A similar program looks at the spool file, and, since NeXT always quotes the  
message at the end, it can parse the message, and forwards the reply back to  
the owner.

If anyone wants to do this, I'll sign up for a 1% share.

---
=> Sherwood Botsford                   sherwood@space.ualberta.ca <= 
=> University of Alberta         Lab Manager, Space Physics Group <=         
=> tel:403 492-3713                             fax: 403 492-4256 <=         
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: peer@ccrma.stanford.edu (Peer Landa)
Subject: Re: Define a new platform . . 
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:32:11 GMT


Eskandar Ensafi writes
Things are getting confusing now.  First someone posted than the rumored NeXT  
RISC Workstation (NRW or NeXTbrick) will have a 64-bit bus with a new, smaller  
form factor.  Then someone said that it will NOT be offered as a cube upgrade.  
Come on, people, do something.  Either get at the truth about the NRW, express  
your ideas or try to save the cube from a 680x0-bound future, if it even has a  
future at all!
--

Doesn't Steve Jobs give us an indicator of how inconsiderable the hardware  
division at NeXT is when he says [fall issue of NeXTWorld] that "NeXT is a  
software company that happens to make great hardware" . . ? 

-- peer

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: beowulf@wam.umd.edu (amealuh)
Subject: Re: Zen Buddhist NeXTers?
Organization: Organized Grime, UMCP
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:09:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.153656.3934@helical.com> rallan@gun.com writes:
>
>OK. How many NeXT users out there are Zen Buddhists? (I am.)
>

what's that? how many NeXT users have been nudists? ME! ME!

waaaaiiiiit... :-)

amie
-- 
beowulf@wam.umd.edu		      			 beowulf@eng.umd.edu
 The difference between sex and death is, death you can do alone and nobody 
laughs at you.		     					-Woody Allen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: frank@glocke.hotb.sub.org (Frank Thomas)
Subject: Re: Objective C for other environments (long)
Keywords: Obj-c,late binding,dynamic binding,NeXTstep-advantage
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:03:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.063330.9585@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>  
helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.100919.735@glocke.hotb.sub.org>,  
frank@glocke.hotb.sub.org (Frank Thomas) writes:
> 
> |> C++'s dynamic is the real difference. Late binding is the only  
(easy!) way  
> |> to do:
> |> 	1. Send an ordinary OBJ-C message to an other App even over the
> |> 	   network.
> |> 	2. Build some objects you can (easily!) use in IB to build new
> |> 	   ones.
> 
>  
> Could you or someone elaborate on how late binding helps here? 
[rest deleted]
To my first comment:
The trick with late binding is that you can easily convert back and forth  
between the ascii reprensentation of the message (the message name) and  
its binary representation for this message (4 Byte) called a selector. 
This makes it easily possible to send messages to another app. You just  
send the message to some `delivery-object` which sends the  
ascii-representation of the message to the other app (on any host). The  
corresponding object in the destination-app just reverses this.

To point 2:
This is (for me) the most impressing thing for programmers. Maybe i can't  
explain this very well (even if I try). You may read `NeXTstep advantage'  
which you can get from your local NeXT-dealer (at least in Germany) or via  
FTP(cs.orst.edu : /pub/next/documents/NeXT/NeXTstepAdvantage.tar.Z)
Ok: The trick is you can tell IB(InterfaceBuilder) to make a special  
version of this executable. This kind of executable can be dynamicly  
loaded (no magic YOU can do this too). Now IB sends the class which it  
likes to manipulate the message `inspectorName' and gets as result the  
name of the class which is responsible for visualy changing internal  
values of the object. The changed object is than saved to '.nib'-file.
How the way to make the GUI for changing the objects internal values is  
(again!) done with IB. I know this sounds like the snake bitting its own  
tail but its true. Seeing is believing!!!

I think these features are really UNIQUE.

About your problem with sending messages the object doesn't know:
You are right, there's no guarantee that there is no such day in the future 
where this could happen. But I never felt that this is a real problem for me.
Maybe other have different opinions. But it's true that this can't happen in
C++. Maybe we have to pay for got features with some problems :-(

comments?

PS: I think my last posting was not clear on the point about polymorphism.
I don't like methods like TakeIntValue,TakeFloatValue and so forth. The  
argumenttype should be (at least at my wish) automatically in the  
(encoded) functionname. Hope this clears things up.

cu
	Frank
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:14:55 EDT
From: <MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?
 <1992Jul22.191425.2173@cs.yale.edu>

How to Upgrade a Cube to NRW

1.  Buy NRW.
2.  Transfer files.
3.  Sell cube.

Note:  a similar technique will upgrade mono to color.

Of course, there are some people who are wedded to the cube for good reasons,
for example they are ND users,or have some custom board in the cube.  But
for most people, 1--3 will do the trick.  In fact, if you omit step 3,
you can network your new NRW with your cube, and have the best of both
worlds.

Upgrades are very appealing to people who enjoy tinkering with their
system, and this is fine.  But substitution is a much easier technique
in most cases.

$.02
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:15:56 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Jul24.220734.356@digifix!uunet.ca> sanguish@digifix.com writes:
>Maurice Shihadi writes
>> About a year ago I was in contact with a company called MOST Inc. 
>> (714) 898-9400 in Cypress CA.  At the time they were shipping the
>> first 128 3.5 read/write optical.  I asked them about NeXT and they 
>> implied strongly that NeXT evaluated the drive and chose not to 
>> use it.  Now, they will soon be shipping the 256 and next year 
>> they have "bigger" plans.  Does anyone know why NeXT rejected 
>> this format as an OEM?  Is there something wrong with it?  
>> If anyone were to purchase one of these drives (they are SCSI), would
>> configuring a driver (using NeXT's documentation as a resource) work
>> out or would would someone have to write one?  Anyone know??????????
>
>	I don't think many companies are currently selling the MOST drive  
>anymore.  Its just as well NeXT didn't go with it.  As I remember, at least at  
>that time the MOST drive, and many others were not using an ISO standard  
>format.
>	We would have been in the same boat we are in down with the Next/Canon  
>OD, except they would take up less space on our desks.
>
>	It seems like the drives that are currently "popular" would be the  
>Sony, Panasonic, and maybe the IBM.  There might be others.
>
>-- 
>- Scott Anguish -
>sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

You may be right.  I have literature from them from 1991 stating that
ISO was the preposed standard for the 256 (now shipping) but since my
concern was in context to direct to disc mastering your concern was not
a question in my mind at that time.

maurices
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: lemson@fnbc.com (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: $$$ NeXT Developer Support $$$
Reply-To: lemson@fnbc.com
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:04:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.132821.267@afs.com> Michael_Pizolato@afs.com  
(Michael Pizolato) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.212702.23675@rathe.cs.umn.edu> gn@rathe.cs.umn.edu  
(Greg  
> Noel) writes:
> > Pity the poor users who don't get NeXTanswers.
> 
> This is probably a FAQ, but what is the easiest way to get regular  
updates of  
> NeXTAnswers?  The only copy we have is getting old now.  If there's not  
a way to  
> have them sent to us automatically, it would be more than sufficient for  
us to  
> go get them manually.
> 
> Any help will be appreciated, but we're not going to pay for it ;-).
> 

Well, if you can get internet FTP access for free, you're all set. 
If you want them sent to you automatically, you need to sign up with NeXT.   
I think it's a couple hundred dollars per year (they usually come with the  
Support Bulletins)

If you want to FTP them:
sonata.cc.purdue.edu in /pub/next/docs/NeXT/92_spring_NeXTanswers.tar.Z

If you can get a mail archive site to send you that file (it's 608407  
bytes), then you can get it via a UUCP link.
--
David Lemson                                           (312) 732-4741
FNBC Sys Admin (Summer) UIUC NeXT Campus Consultant(rest of the time)
E-mail to: lemson@fnbc.com                          NeXTMail accepted
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open letter to NextDevelopers (long)(Flamebait)
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:46:38 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Jul21.045104.346@digifix!uunet.ca>
sanguish@digifix.com writes:

>The "two minute" demo may be a little short for some types of packages.   
>5 minutes would be more appropriate for some packages.  

Certainly not for anything other than trivial apps.

>However, at least in the case of the Simson Garfinkel and Associates  
>packages that use the Registration object that Simson made available, you can  
>re-start the Demo again after you are supposed to have registered.

That's perfectly all right with me, as long as I don't have
to restart the thing every few minutes.  In the real world,
the one you were so insistent about in your other posting,
the phone rings, someone comes into the office to ask you a
question, you have to fix something on your local network
right away, and a thousand other things.  Meanwhile the
timer is running.  One thing that will *never* sell is a
pain in the butt: nobody wants that.

>It makes it inconvenient to work with, not impossible.  While you will  
>be interrupted, you can still experiment with all the features.

What should happen, what I predict *will* happen, is that
developers who shoot themselves in the foot will limp.  All
a consumer has to do is hold out.  If there's money to be
made, the product that offers the features *and* convenience
is going to win out.  NeXT-associated things are still a
*mighty* long way from being Microsoft, and that means the
buyer is going to stay in the driver's seat.

>The "crippling" of demos really needs to be based on the individual  
>application and how it is intended to be worked with.  Whether it be based on  
>printing, saving, time-crippling or whatever.

Sure, why not?  But with a more realistic technical
and business sense, too.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NextDevelopers (long)(Flamebait)
Reply-To: sanguish@digifix.com
Organization: Digital Fix Development
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:54:23 GMT

Jess Anderson writes
> 
> In article <1992Jul21.045104.346@digifix!uunet.ca>
> sanguish@digifix.com writes:
> >However, at least in the case of the Simson Garfinkel and Associates  
> >packages that use the Registration object that Simson made available, you  
can  
> >re-start the Demo again after you are supposed to have registered.
> 
> That's perfectly all right with me, as long as I don't have
> to restart the thing every few minutes.  In the real world,
> the one you were so insistent about in your other posting,
> the phone rings, someone comes into the office to ask you a
> question, you have to fix something on your local network
> right away, and a thousand other things.  Meanwhile the
> timer is running.  One thing that will *never* sell is a
> pain in the butt: nobody wants that.

	The software you PAY for will not have these limitiations.  

	You are "test-driving" the software.  You aren't taking it out to run  
errands.  You need to "focus" on what you are doing, and what a DEMO is  
intended to do.

	The original poster was complaining about not being able to actually  
"use" the software.  You know, save his work, that kind of stuff.  That is  
ABUSE of the demo software.

	True, if the software is such a pain in the ass as you say, it won't  
sell, thats true.  So far the ONLY demo that I have found the demo time to  
short is Simson's SBOOK.  Even then, I only want a couple of more minutes.   
However, since I haven't PAID for the software and a demo has been made  
available free-of-charge, I am willing to re-start the software a couple of  
times to see if it has the kind of features I am looking for.


	I know about the real world.  I've been out in it for years.

	and the ONLY thing that Sherwood was right about in his original post  
was that this was Flamebait.

	
-- 
- Scott Anguish -
sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sam@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Sirlin)
Subject: Re: Zen Buddhist NeXTers?
Originator: sam@kalessin
Keywords: cows
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:13:53 GMT


In article <MPYTHON.92Jul22160127@goldman.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, mpython@goldman.gnu.ai.mit.edu (... and the flying circus) writes:
|> >>>>> On 22 Jul 92 15:36:56 GMT, rallan@gun.com (Robb Aley Allan) said:
|> 
|> rallan> And besides: isn't it MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!  ?
|> 
|> erm, no... the Sacred Chao says "MU"

What about Monkey? Wouldn't he say Wu? 

-- 
Sam Sirlin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory         sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco)
Subject: Object Design's ObjectStore to be part of NeXTstep
Keywords: OODB
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:07:47 GMT



I was at Object World in San Francisco this morning and Steve Jobs made a  
shocking announcement. NeXT has just formed a partnership with  
ObjectDesign to include the ObjectStore OODBMS, or at least integrate it  
fully, into NeXTstep by the middle of next year.

I don't know about you folks, but I think that these news are  
earth-shattering. I mean, what's an object-oriented environment without a  
decent object-oriented database? Sybase is not enough. And the OODBMs that  
had announced for NeXTstep were either weak (POET) or forced you to  
program in strange languages (PDS' IDB). With the ObjectStore, a new  
generation of multimedia, document management, and groupware solutions  
will be possible: all from Objective-C.

BTW, Steve gave an inspired presentation at Object World, managing to take  
swipes at Taligent, Borland, and SunSoft in the process. NS3.0's drag &  
drop, Novelll & Appleshare support, and the DBKit are all crazy hype!!!!

-Marcos J. Polanco
-The Research Libraries Group
-shiva@vega.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy