From: mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green)
Subject: Re: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: University of Alberta
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:11:45 GMT

In article <25525@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>In article <92229.214547ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu> ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>In <1992Aug16.025209.24056@cs.UAlberta.CA>
>>mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green) writes:
>>>There is a major difference between racism in North America and China.
>>>In North America the racism is more subtle, while in China its blatant.
>>>In some parts of China, a white person walking on the streets alone
>>>can count on some type of physical attack on a regular basis.  Several
>>>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
>>>times in a dining hall I've not been served while all the chinese sitting
>>>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
>>>around have been served.  As far as the waiters were concerned I didn't
>>>belong in China so I wasn't going to be fed.  With this type of racism
>>>
>>
>>Racism against WHITE people in China???  Could you please elaborate
>>the situations you encountered?
>>
>>As an English-speaking WHITE person, you should have been swarmed
>>by hordes of VERY friendly & eager-to-please college students who
>>try to practice English with you.  Other ordinary people should
>>have paid much more respect and attention to you than to other
>>Chinese --- the 5th or 6th class citizens.
>>
>>(FYI, foreigners from rich western countries --- 1st-class citizens
>>      foreigners from other countries --- 2nd-class citizens
>>      Chinese with foreign citizenships --- 3rd-class citizens
>>      Chinese from HongKong & Taiwan --- 4th-class citizens
>>      ethnic minorities in China --- 5th-class citizens
>>      Han Chinese --- 6th-class citizens (lowest)
>> according to the practices & written/unwritten policies of Chinese
>> Communist Government).
>>
>
>I am also a little aghast at your description that whites are 
>treated _worse_ in China because of their race, particularly the
>part about being physically threatened. I would agree full-heartedly 
>that there is blatant discrimination in China based on one's 
>background, but on most occasions that discrimination works in 
>favor of the "foreign guests" from the U.S., Canada, and Western 
>Europe. 

Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, it really depends upon
what you want to do.  If you want to act like a tourist and stay
in nice hotels and eat in the best resteraunts, then it is a help.
But, if you want to see how people live or actually get some work
done, then it can be a real problem.

>
>I note that you are from Alberta.  You weren't by any chance a
>"foreign expert" sent to Heilongjiang Province through the sister
>province agreement between the two provinces, were you, eh? :-) 

Yes, I've been to Harbin (in 1988), but not through the provincial
program.  We have an exchange agreement with one of the universities
in Harbin.

>Aside from being gouged on the prices, which I admit IS extremely 
>aggravating, foreigners have access to goods and services denied
>the local folk.  If you were working in China, you were probably 
>housed in an apartment for "foreign experts" with heat and hot water
>that is palatial compared to typical Chinese accomodations, 

Well, I've stayed in quite a range of apartments, some of the "foreign
experts" apartments don't have hot water (I know, I've stayed in some
of them).  I know what the typical Chinese accomodations are, since I
have stayed in some of my chinese friend's apartments.  The quality of
"foreign experts" apartments varies a lot from one university.  Some of
them rank with 4 star hotels, while others are worse than the typical
Chinese accomodations.  It just depends on how the university views
foreign visitors.

>and paid
>wages beyond the dreams of most Chinese. 

Paid????  Paid what??  I don't get a cent from any of the universities
that I visit.  It actually costs me money.  Most places will pay all or
part of my room and board, but don't cover travel expenses.  A lot of the
universities are having financial problems now, so the sometimes can't
cover all of my room and board.  On my last trip (May and June 1992), I
ended up paying half of my living expenses.

>Moreover, your host institution
>probably provided you with a car and driver at your request on the
>assumption that North Americans can't survive by walking or public 
>transportation. 

Yes, I can usually get a car and driver, if I want one.  But, I'm
quite capable of handling public transportation, and use it in the
cities that I'm familiar with.  

>Hotel and restaurant service is apt to be surly, 
>but at least you could walk into any of them without a guard getting
>in your way.  Go to a train station and people will steer you to a 
>special window for foreigners where tickets are always available 
>(pricey, of course), whereas the locals have to line up for hours if
>not days to get theirs. As for plane tickets, you can forget
>them if you don't have special connections OR are a foreigner.
>
>Bringing this post back to the Albertan angle (:-)), I used to
>go to the coffee shop in the International Hotel in Harbin with my 
>Canadian friend with no problems. However, when I go alone, the 
>following conversation occurs with doormen who seem to not remember 
>faces:
>   "Hey, who are you looking for?" (doorman speaking)
>   "Nobody, I just want to get a cup of coffee."  (me)
>   "Where are you from?" 
>   "I live around the corner" (me being coy just for fun) 
>   "This hotel is for foreign guests only."
>   "I've been here with my Canadian friends and..."
>   "That's differnet, you can't come here by yourself. It's off-limits 
>    to locals, understand?" (gruffly, with patented rolling-of-the-eyes)
>   "Actually I'm an Overseas Chinese working as a foreign guest here.."
>   "You're from overseas?  Why didn't you say so ?" 
>   "Sorry for the confusion. Thanks" (me trying not to be an ugly AA).
>
>I admit that in the above I was pleased with my "performance". I've 
>also had some pretty rough times making phone calls and buying tickets 
>where I lost my cool and resorted to pulling out my passport to avoid 
>being stranded. These stories should not surprise anybody from China, 
>but when I described them to my Canadian friend, she thought I was
>pulling her leg. She had a hard time believing that a society could
>tolerate such blatant discrimination against their own kind.

This has been changing, particularly after 1989 with the drop in the
number of tourists.
>
>Assuming that you were not exagerrating about your unpleasant 
>experiences, I could only think of two possible explanations : 
>(1) some Chinese are fed up with the priviledge given to foreigners 
>and rebelling by going to the other extreme, or

I completely agree with them.  I'm not interested in any privileges,
they just get in the way of establishing a good working relation.  How
can you work with someone when they can't go the same places that you
can go, or think they have to treat you in a special way?

>(2) things may have changed so much since 1986 that I'm completely 
>out of touch. The former is quite possible - I've heard disgruntled
>cab drivers muttering about "no dogs or Chinese allowed" on more
>than one occasion  - but the latter would really surprise me.
>
>I do not mean to condone or excuse any racism in either direction.
>However, I do have the impression that whites are frequently unaware 
>of or take for granted their priviledges when in China. If what I've
>written is all old hat to you, then I apologize for wasting your time.
>
>Joe Huang


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