HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Subject: Ideal Transportation Planning for Cities
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:39:02 GMT
Followup-To: sci.environment

                Berkeley Transportation Commission
                    11/17/92 Meeting, 7:00 p.m.
     North Berkeley Senior Center, 1901 Hearst Ave., Berkeley

Proposed Resolution:

Whereas we need to protect the environment, while allowing all
segments of society equal access to the destinations that supply
their essential needs;

Whereas the automobile and its relatives is the greatest threat
both to the environment and to equal access for all;

Whereas traffic calming is increasingly becoming the method of
choice around the world for reducing the dominance of the
automobile in our cities;

Whereas restrictions on the use of the automobile need to be
supplemented by land use changes, in order to make the cleaner
modes of transport viable;

Whereas the most popular, clean, and energy-efficient mode of
transport within the city is light rail;

Therefore, be it resolved that the Transportation Commission
requests of the City Council that it make Traffic Calming, Urban
                                          _______________  _____
Villages (compact development that makes walking, bicycling, and
________                                                        
transit use maximally viable, e.g. Richard Register's plan for an
"Ecocity Berkeley"), and Light Rail the basis for the Circulation
                         __________                              
Element of the General Plan (as recommended in Peter Newman and
Jeff Kenworthy's book, Towards a More Sustainable Canberra).
                       ___________________________________  

Mike Vandeman
510-823-2472
From: louis@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Louis Schmittroth)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Why do they hate us?
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:32:30 GMT

constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:


>I abhor environmentalism because it is not based on science, like it 
>should be, but rather on faith, guilt, and emotion.

What a bunch of bullshit.  I am an environmentalist, and a scientist.
Many of my friends are both.  

>No, I think it's due to the irrationality of the environmentalists.

Sure, some environmentalists are irrational, so are some women, black,
Republicans.  Gaaaawd.
--
Louis Schmittroth louis@cs.athabascau.ca
NW 1/4 18 67 21 W4 Alberta.
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Population growth and cultural destruction (Re: Nasty
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 02:06:21 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <STEINLY.92Dec11134113@topaz.ucsc.edu> steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu writes:

 > In article <1992Dec11.212540.6301@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
 > writes:

 >    >I agree with this approach, although it should be noted that the
 >    >"appropriateness" of a technology tends to be rather variable
 >    >in hindsight :-(
 >  
 >    So true.  The point is that local conditions need to be considered
 >    when the choices are made.
 >  
 >  ...
 >  
 >    Well, bringing in does not mean sending in.  I would be interested in
 >    some examples of appropriate technology causing more harm than good.
 >  
 > I think the point is that as soon as 
 > "appropriate" technology does more harm
 > than good it is reclassified as "inappropriate" ;-)

Well, doesn't it make some sort of sense to consider that what might
be deemed appropriate or inappropriate within a given context cannot
possibly be resolved through constant bickering among those *outside*
that context.

 >    There are new theories that biological evolution was not a linearly
 >    smooth process so that is my "out" here :).  To say that most
 >    development has occurred in your lifetime is myopic, IMO.  I would
 >    say that "development" starts with the change to a cash economy with
 >    wage labor, i.e., the start of capitalism.  This started in Europe
 >    centuries ago.  The enormous rate of _technological_ development in 
 >    the last two generations took place in societies that had already
 >    transformed into capitalism.  
 >  
 > Just to clarify: I was saying that the "development" of _my_ country
 > to an industrialised society with a cash economy and wage labour has
 > to a significant extent occurred in my lifetime - my native country
 > was a colony during my parents lifetime.

Again, what is *most* noticeable is the lack of involvement of others
in this discussion. Where are you talking about specifically? Nigeria?
Where is the Nigerian delegation? Don't you think that they might have
something germane to contribute, that without their contribution it is
all purely hypothetical hot air anyway?

Are you talking about Namibia? Where are the Namibians?

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 14:13:57 EST
From: <DCROWE@GTRI01.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: E-Link: Mt. Graham: UPitt Protest (Press Release)
 <Yf7xINO00WBN467Mxz@andrew.cmu.edu> <12085@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>
 <1992Dec10.160507.132468@watson.ibm.com>
 <STEINLY.92Dec10105729@topaz.ucsc.edu>

Having visited the top of Mt. Graham (which is already partially developed),
I am inclined to think that saving it for non-light-polluted astronomy
would indeed be far kinder to the squirrels than the potential of alternative
development for tourists, campers, etc. that is rampant on the rest of the
mountain. I am sure the astronomers are surprised that environmentalists
have not embraced their proposed use of the peak as a way to join forces
with them to prevent further development in a wide area, since astronomy is
adversely affected by light sources 50-100 miles away due to atmospheric
scattering. Is the greater good the absolute protection of a number of acres
on the peak, or the partial protection of hundreds of square miles? I don't
know, but either is preferable to the likely development of a vacation
attraction.

Xref: sparky sci.environment:13725 talk.environment:5152
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Why do they hate us?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 01:39:51 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Dec17.201220.11260@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, 471-1@air.atmo.arizona.edu (E. Shane Jimerfield) writes:
>>2. Will nuclear energy bring harm to another person or animal?
>>
>This question has been answered many times... Three Mile Island,

Who was hurt at three mile island?

>   It will both help people and harm them. It will harm people who make
>their living from Micky D, but will help stabalize the environment.

Which was what John's objection was all about:  Your criterion as stated is
useless.  I can think of very few actions that don't, in some sense, "bring
harm to another person or animal."  John was objecting to the fact that you,
like many ecofreaks, mouthed a bunch of high-sounding, but in fact, utterly
meaningless words.

Now, would you please attempt to reformulate your criterion so that it means
something?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: "shire::rob"@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Rob McNeur)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Mud Brick Construction - Info Request
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:25:26 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hiya

Just wondering whether anyone can give me any contacts, references or 
organisations relating to Earth building, i.e Adobe, compressed mud-brick, 
or rammed earth building.
There are small amounts available in the local library but not a lot, so I 
would like to locate other organisations and/or references on the subjects.

Please post or email "Rob@ccc.govt.nz" with any information.


Thanks

Rob McNeur
Christchurch City Council
Christchurch, New Zealand
Rob@ccc.govt.nz

Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Simple Global Warming [CO2] Calculations (was Re: Bad science)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:13:07 GMT

len@math.nwu.edu (Len Evens) writes:

[discussing climate model results indicating warming due to increasing
CO2]

>warming.   As Michael Tobis has amply explained in this newsgroup, there
>are relatively simple `back of the envelope' calculations based on
>well established physical principles which underly such predictions.
>(Maybe you need more than one envelope.)   I had hoped for better
>from the Times. 

   Actually, the calculations could be done on one fairly small
envelope. Now that all my exams are marked, perhaps I'll take the time
to do so. Some time in the next few days, I'll set up the calculations
and post it to sci.environment. I'll bet that I can do it in less than
one screen.


Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
From: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Something to think about
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:45:00 GMT
Reply-To: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett)
Organization: PCS-BBS - San Jose, CA - 408-270-4085

TO: alanm@igc.apc.org

AM>Now, if the relationship of the Indians to this resource had been
  >entirely a result of ecological limitation

Granted, the Indian/beaver equation had stabilized by the time the
Europeans arrived, but the Indians had hunted the ground sloths and
mastodons and other fauna into extinction earlier, hadn't they?
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-8688 . ...from San Jose, CA
From: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: E-Link: Ticket America Ca
Date: 13 Dec 92 06:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: PCS-BBS - San Jose, CA - 408-270-4085
Reply-To: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 

TO: env-link+@andrew.cmu.edu

SE>This spring, we're launching the national TICKET AMERICA direct
  >action campaign.
  >In the campaign's first phase, thousands of college student
  >"Green Patrols" will fan out in hundreds of cities across the
  >country to ticket gas guzzlers.

Touching somebody's car even so much as to put a ticket on it is
technically illegal "tampering" in some jurisdictions - your operatives
may be subject to detention by the owner and arrest by the responding
officer; also you may trigger some cars' burglar alarms and get a panic
reaction by owners involving inappropriate use of force - i.e., from
those owners insured by Smith & Wesson.  Be careful.
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-8688 . ...from San Jose, CA
From: davidbri@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (David Brierley)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Zinc
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:50:41 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University


     It's true that  some of the zinc would dissolve in stomach acid,
however most of the compressed tablet would break up in the intestine
 after the acid had been neutralized.  On the other hand I checked some
vitamin books on zinc and found that it is an inhalation hazard.  A
single oral dose of 200 milligrams of zinc causes toxicity symptoms
(some diabetics receive doses of 1 gram of chromium per day as a
treatment); so chronic doses of zinc dust would be very low when
toxicity symptoms occur.  In general, maximum safe doses of inhalation
hazards tend to be quite low, anyway. 
Xref: sparky sci.environment:13723 sci.energy:6300
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Yet Another Anti-Greenpeace Scenario From Thin Air
Date: 20 Dec 1992 23:40:58 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <29721@castle.ed.ac.uk>, gtclark@festival.ed.ac.uk (G T Clark) writes:
=
=	The Greenpeace ship was,apparently,three miles from the
=plutonium shipment at all times.This does not count as "harrassment" to
=any person with two brain cells to rub together.

Maybe it requires more than two brain cells to realize that the purpose of an
escort is to keep other ships away from the ship that's being escorted.

=	This would seem to be another case of Greenpeace-baiting on the
=part of a  national government.

It would seem to be a simple case of having the escorts at a prudent distance
from the ship in question, and Greenpeace attempting to get past the escort.
In other words, a deliberate provocation by Greenpeace.  I think the escort
should've fired on them.

=	Incidentally,this argument ran for a long time with nobody
=apparently knowing what the hell happened,but people quite happily
=condemning everybody in sight on the basis of a few ambiguous newspaper
=reports. "A collision" very rapidly became Greenpeace ramming the Pu
=freighter, which on the best information I can find was a very long way
=from the truth (see above)

The bow of the Greenpeace ship struck the side of the escort.  Perhaps you'd
care to tell us what definition YOU use for the word "ram"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: toxic spill remediation
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<JMC.92Dec16113429@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec16.214327.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:44:41

In article <1992Dec16.214327.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson) writes:
   References: <1992Dec15.195341.4090@head-cfa.harvard.edu> <jmullison.38.0@ucsd.edu> <JMC.92Dec16113429@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>

   In article <JMC.92Dec16113429@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
   > How was mercury used in making hats?  Was it heated?  Did it get
   > ionized?  Probably the answers to these questions are not easy to
   > obtain.  The Minimata disaster was caused by mercury that was
   > methylated.
   >
    Solutions of mercuric chloride and nitrate - in other words, Hg++ ions.
    These salts are almost as bad as methylated mercury.
   > 
   > I suppose it should be possible to make a realistic assessment
   > of the amount of poisoning produced by playing with the stuff
   > in junior high school.  Maybe it was trivial.  Maybe it was
   > harmful though not directly observable.
   > 
    Harmful effects of mercury vapor are usually due to repeated, prolonged
    exposure.  If the mercury was sitting out in an open tray in a poorly-
    ventilated room there could be problems. If it was just taken out of
    a jar for a few minutes, probably not. The main hazard from playing with
    the metal is spilling it - the liquid runs into cracks and is very hard
    to clean up without special equipment (e.g. vacuum cleaners with special
    filters).

    Robert

How nice to have some actual technical information.

The question someone asked to the person who raised the question of
mercury cleanup is now of general interest.  It was, "What did you
do?"
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
From: charvey@teal.csn.org (Chip Harvey)
Subject: Re: Bad science
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:11:17 GMT

Can someone e-mail to me the citation for this study?  From a statistical
point-of-view, I believe there may be problems with temporal
autocorrelation of the data.  The global warming phenomenon is a very
recent event relative to the time scale of the bristlecones studied.  It
is likely (certain?) that the tree ring growth is temporally
autocorrelated, i.e. growth during year i is strongly correlated with year
i-1.  When one considers this in the context of statistical tests and
inferences, the ability to obtain independent data within the global
warming era is questionable.  The "bad science" result would be if the
data analysts treated all years as independent.  This would lead to
pseudoreplication, an improperly inflated sample size used in the
computation of standard errors and degrees of freedom.  Under temporal
autocorrelation, real events happening in recent years may not be
detectable because they may be represented by VERY few data points.  I am
curious if the researchers took temporal autocorrelation into account. 
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: tobis@skool.ssec.wisc.edu (Michael Tobis)
Subject: Hydrogen (was Natural Gas)
Keywords: auto fuel maybe, energy source no
Organization: U Wisc Madison - Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:08:26 GMT

In article <tkdcnf4@sgi.sgi.com>, jeremy@classic.asd.sgi.com (Jeremy Higdon) writes:
|> Does it make sense not to use a resource that we have abundant quantities
|> of, just because they aren't infinite?  Perhaps we will have perfected
|> hydrogen by then, or fusion.

Hydrogen may or may not be a sensible fuel for vehicles, but it IS NOT
a plausible energy source. It does not occur in significant quantities
in elemental form on Earth, and it COSTS energy to extract it from water
or other compounds. This is a bit of confusion that is widespread and needs
to be addressed somehow. 

mt

Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (James G. Acker)
Subject: Re: Enviro-industry on ABC
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:29:12 GMT

Dean Alaska (dean@vexcel.com) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec16.164127.25051@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (James G. Acker) writes:

: >	The most amazing idea was GENESIS, a worldwide system of linked
: >solar farms for electrical generation.  While China was in the dark,
: >Saharan solar farms would provide electricity.  Feasible?  I don't
: >know.  Being considered?  You betcha.
: 
: Did they describe how they are to be linked?  I don't know of any
: available transmission technology that can link such widely
: separated sources.  This limitation is the biggest technological
: hurdle for utility-scale renewables though I have heard of advances in
: transmission technologies.

	Long cables.  With anticipation of improved transmission
technology.  Of course, the cable drawn on the map from the Sahara
to China went through the notably seismic Caucasus mountains, but
I doubt that'll be the final route.  Hope so, at least.

	Jim Acker
From: tgray@igc.apc.org (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: What about this, doomsters?
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:29:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:JMC.92Dec10150952@sail.stanford.:434949043:cdp:1466602000:000:1288
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tgray    Dec 14 10:29:00 1992


jmc@sail.stanford.edu (John McCarthy) writes:

 > /* Written  3:09 pm  Dec 10, 1992 by jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU in igc:sci.environmen */
 > /* ---------- "What about this, doomsters?" ---------- */
 > from Science, Dec. 4, p. 1574
 > 
 > excerpt from article entitled "How to Grow Oil in the Persian Gulf".
 > 
 > Halophyte Enterprises, a company in Tucson, Arizona, set up to
 > commercialize technology developed at the nearby University
 > of Arizona's Environmental Research Laboratory (ERL), has sent
 > a team to Jubail, Saudi Arabia.  There, it is planting _Salicornia
 > beglovii_.  The seeds of this salt marsh plant yield not only
 > edible oil but even protein meal for animal feed.  Gene Koch,
 > Halophyte's president, say that "this 300-hectare [740 acre]
 > farm will be the first commercial [crop] in the world to be
 > irrigated with sea water."

Well, John, here is one "doomster"'s reaction:

We can solve the problem this scheme addresses and a raft of others
besides with another technofix called Norplant.  Many population restraint
programs around the world, armed with much less effective technology, are
beginning to succeed against all the odds.  I would like to see Norplant
and far more educational and financial resources made available to these
programs. 

Tom
Newsgroups: sci.environment


Richard and Bryan,

I don't know if they like visitors, but there is a place to visit
relevant to your ozone project that is in Boulder. It the National
Atmospheric and Oceanic Administration (NAOA). They probably help
with or at least track research about the Earth's ozone layer.

As far as what it is:

Oxygen that we breath is O2

     0-0

a diatomic (double) molecule

Ozone looks like this

        O
       / \
      0 - 0

it's 03! It is unstable but continually generated by high energy 
sunlight hitting the upper part of the Earth's atmosphere. This 
process absorbs harmful rays before they hit us. Unfortunately,
as you may know, we have harmed our ozone layer by destroying it faster
than it's being made. Certain chemicals that we use (in refrigerators
and cleaning solutions) that are not harmful to us are very bad
for the ozone layer. The problem is particularly bad because a single
molecule of this type of chemical( called CFC for chlorofluorocarbon)
can destroy more than 100 ozone molecules.

Ozone is also used here on the surface of the Earth as a bleach or
disinfectant since it is very reactive and wants to go back to being
O2 which is more stable.

Good Luck on your project. Feel free to call or write if you have more 
questions.


Chris Beatty
Hewlett-Packard Little Falls (Formerly of Fort Collins)
beatty@lf.hp.com
302-633-8638
Newsgroups: sci.environment