HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu (K. M. A. Rahman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The word "liberation"
Date: 2 Oct 1992 19:02:00 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

|>Since we are on this thread, here's an interesting but little known fact:
|>                                       ----------------------------------
|>On the airport dias which was set up to receive Sheikh Mujib, (on his truimphant
|>return to freedom and free Bangladesh in 1972), one of the first words that
|>Sheikh Mujib uttered were to the then Prime Minsister Tajul Islam. He said,
|>"A tomrA ki korlay? Desh takey bhengay dilay?" [What have you done? You broke
|>up the country?]. This is based on a first hand account from someone who was
|	 	    ------------------------------------------------------
|>standing next to Sheikh Mujib at that time. I have no doubts as to the
|>veracity of the quote; though the actual wordings might have been slightly
|>different.
|>
|>- Zunaid Kazi
|>  kazi@cis.udel.edu

	Would you please provide some more info on this 'someone'? 

	Anisur Rahman
	5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The word "liberation"
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:06:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Constitutionally you are correct. We were supposed to control
the parliament and hence the government. However, they
controlled the army and the guns.

So how about:

"There was a military coup, which we partially liberated our
country from. Half the country is still controlled by the
rogue military."

Hassan :-).
From: kazi@dobie.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The word "liberation"
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:18:51 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark

In article <009617E3.995814E0@vms.csd.mu.edu> 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>|>Since we are on this thread, here's an interesting but little known fact:
>|>                                       ----------------------------------
>|>On the airport dias which was set up to receive Sheikh Mujib, (on his truimphant
>|>return to freedom and free Bangladesh in 1972), one of the first words that
>|>Sheikh Mujib uttered were to the then Prime Minsister Tajul Islam. He said,
>|>"A tomrA ki korlay? Desh takey bhengay dilay?" [What have you done? You broke
>|>up the country?]. This is based on a first hand account from someone who was
>|	 	    ------------------------------------------------------
>|>standing next to Sheikh Mujib at that time. I have no doubts as to the
>|>veracity of the quote; though the actual wordings might have been slightly
>|>different.
>|>
>|>- Zunaid Kazi
>|>  kazi@cis.udel.edu
>
>	Would you please provide some more info on this 'someone'? 

Unfortunately, I am unable to do that. As I mentioned in a prior post, this
person was standing next to the Bangobondhu when he uttered those questions.
This story was told only to a few people. Though I have no reason to doubt
his veracity, this is something that is unsubstantiable and I would
prefer not to divulge the name of that person. 

I understand that this "fact" might be hard to believe, and since I have
nothing more informative than what I have already said, we should as well
ignore this; unless there are corroborative evidence (if any). I apologize for 
bringing up something for which I am unable to provide references.   

>	Anisur Rahman
>	5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu

- Zunaid
  kazi@cis.udel.edu
From: hossain@ee.rochester.edu (Razak Hossain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Nazrul
Keywords: Nazrul
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:01:05 GMT
Followup-To: <1992Oct6.141049.6350@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science


banerj@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov writes:

> While on the topic of Nazrul, let me see if I can stir this group to life
> -- and arms?:-) What do folks think of Bangladesh "appropriating" Nazrul
> as their national(?) poet? It is my impression - correct me if I am wrong
> - that Nazrul never set foot in the Eastern part of Bengal till his final
> days. Are the ties of religion so strong that he becomes the national poet
> over someone like Jasimuddin? Is that enough cause to arrange the hasty
> burial in Bangladesh - although I'm sure his family consented to this -
> rather than burying him in his native district or city? These are points
> that were pointed out to me by a Bangladeshi friend who, though born
> Muslim, is now a self-professed atheist.

I have heard contradictory statement about Nazrul. Some have mentioned that
he was left leaning, possibly even a member of the communist party, while a
friend has mentioned that one of his poems has a line that he wishes to be
buried where the "Azan" can be heard. 

In his final years he seems to have lost touch with reality. Some people have
mentioned that this was a result of syphilis, which if untreated effects
the mind. Others have said that he was "poisoned" although the details remain
sketchy.

Does anyone have any hard facts about him ?

Regards,
Raza
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: rahman@dc30.dc (Mashuque Rahman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Pirates attack ferries in Chittagong
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:00:31 GMT
Reply-To: rahman@dc30.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

San Jose Mercury News reported yesterday that two ferries
were attacked by pirates in Chittagong. The ferries with
about 300 people got lost into the Bay of Bengal. About 30
people (who jumped for their lives) were rescued by fishing
trawlers from the sea.

The report does not have any more details (and I think I
remember the numbers right).



-- Mashuque	(rahman@dc30.lsil.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hassan@bcrka434.bnr.ca (Abu Hassan)
Subject: Rabindra Sangeet
Originator: hassan@bcrka434
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:50:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.154103.18313@zip.eecs.umich.edu> you write:
>In article <1992Oct1.234019.5954@tamsun.tamu.edu> adatta@cs.tamu.edu (Abhijit Datta) writes:
>>
>> In article 5555 bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
>> writes :
>>

Stuff deleted ...

>I am curious to know whether  Rabindrasangeet in Bangladesh is 
>subjected to a similar process of "quality control" ...i.e. does
>artistes need to have approval from any official entity before
>releasing a recording, as in West Bengal ?

No, there is no such authority in Bangladesh for "quality control"
of Rabindrasangeeth. 

I would like to bring an analogy of Nazrulgeeti in this discussion.
Nazrulgeeti does not have any such QA dept. Even worse, music of a lot
of these Nazrulgeetis were not given by Nazrul ( Kamal DasGupta had
given music to lot of Nazrulgeetis ). As a result, Nazrulgeetis are 
sung in different ways according to the likings and perceptions of the 
artists. I was talking to Sohrab Hossain (a prominent Nazrulgeeti singer
from Bangladesh) about this sometime ago and "it is a complete mess" according
to his opinion. He told that some people even changed the wordings of 
some of the songs. Recently, Nazrul Academy in Dhaka has taken an 
initiative to preserve the Nazrulgeetis in their "pure" form. They are
collecting old record (yes, 78rpms !!) and archiving the music from
those. This probably shows that if there is no standard then things can
really go wrong. 

I read somewhere that, one who is a master of it, he has the right to break 
rythms (chanda) in poetry. Similarly, Tagore said about spelling
that if I (that is Tagore) write "Nadi" (river) with a Hrasha-E nobody
will question, because I will not do it without good enough reason.
Thus, when D.Biswas sings tagore song in his own way, I have no problem.
But, for Tom, Dick and Henry ...

>
>>	Secondly, don't you think that Tagore experimenting with his 
>> creation in his life-time is something different from others doing it
>> after his death! If yes, then we should be more cautious in making
>> assertions like "I have no doubt that .. etc. etc."
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>  Abhijit
>>
>
>I admit that my attempt to second-guess what Tagore might have said
>if he were alive, was a little hasty :)
>
>-Sayan Bhattacharyya

- Abu S. Mahmudul Hassan


*****************************************************************************
* Abu S. Mahmudul Hassan    Bitnet : hassan@bnr.ca                          *
* DFT Group                 UUCP : .. uunet!bnrgate!bcrka434!hassan         *
* Bell Northern Research    Ph : (613) 763-2324                             *
* Ottawa, CANADA            AMAR SONAR BANGLA AMI TOMAI BHALOBASHI          *
*****************************************************************************








Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ark7038@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: What do ya reckon.....
Reply-To: ark7038@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 19:07:02 GMT

Dear Famin,
	I am a T.C.K. and am interested in hearing more about your conference
in Virginia. What was the topic? What schools attended? I rarely meet any 
TCK's on our campus (Rochester Institute of Technology). By the way, are 
you a TCK? Are there any TCKs on the SCB network? 
	Till later
		ASHFAQ KHAN
		ARK7038--VAX ACCT.#
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: adatta@cs.tamu.edu (Abhijit Datta)
Subject: Re: Romance Myths
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:21:07 GMT

In article 5582 haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu.soe (Anisul Haque) writes :

>I agree with you that some kind of monitoring is required to avoid 
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>undesirable distortions of Rabindrasangeet. But it must not be done 
>mechanically. Also there should be some provisions to incorporate the 
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>genius of the few people like Debabrata. Think of his case! Authorities 
>on Rabindrasangeet, who were outside Vishwa Bharati (like Shanti Deb Ghosh)
>didn't consider Debabrata's modifications as undesirable. But since Kanika, 
>who happened to be the decision maker in Vishwa Bharati, thought Debrabata's
>music to be an abuse of Rabindrasangeet, it was branded so! Isn't the criterion
>rather arbitrary here?

	I agree with what you have mentioned regarding Shanti Deb Ghosh's 
views on Debabrata's singing. In fact, I happened to be present at Shanti
Deb's home in Shantiniketan just two days before Debabrata's demise, when
the former was reflecting on his acquaintance with Debabrata in a homely
discussion.

	Regarding Kanika's involvement I can only say that many of us have
heard various versions of the episode almost each of which point towards 
one of a few different Rabindrasangeet singer of repute. Let's not get into
more details.
	
	Alas, so many of us feel like you that there should be "some
provisions" and "some kind of monitoring" but find it difficult when
it comes down to specifics!

Regards,
 Abhijit 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: was@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (wasif.sattar)
Subject: Books about the history of Bangladesh
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:50:39 GMT
Keywords: War of Liberation, Genocide, History


I am posting this for a friend. If you have any questions please 
contact him at the address given below.

Shubhechhante,
Wasif

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 10:43:32 CDT
From: bari@max.ee.lsu.edu (Mohammad Bari)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A list of some of the books available at Louisiana State University's
Middleton Library which may help everyone interested to understand
the situations which led to the creation of our beloved motherland
- BANGLADESH.

 1. Indira speaks on genocide, war and Bangladesh
    Indira Gandhi, Dhiren Mullick
    Academic Publishers, Calcutta, 1972

 2. War and secession : Pakistan, India, and the creation
    of Bangladesh
    Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose
    University of California Press, Berkeley, 1990

 3. Genocide in Bangladesh
    Kalyan Chaudhury
    Orient Longman, Bombay, 1972

 4. Democracy & nationalism on trial
    Jayanta Kumar Ray

 5. Pakistan from 1947 to the creation of Bangladesh
    Compiled by editorial staff of Keesing's contemporary archives,
    Scribner, New York, 1973

 6. The last days of united Pakistan
    Golam Wahed Choudhury
    Indiana University Press, Bloomington, 1974

 7. The Anderson papers
    Jack Anderson & George Clifford
    Ballantine Books, New York, 1974

 8. The Bangladesh revolution and its aftermath
    Talukder Maniruzzaman
    Bangladesh Books International, Dhaka, 1980

 9. From nation to nation : a case study of bengali independence
    Mitra Das
    Minerva, Calcutta, 1981

10. Ethnic separatism and world politics
    Edited by Frederick L. Shiels
    University Press of America, Lanham, MD, 1984
    Contains the article 'Pakistan and Bangladesh' - Craig Baxter

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Subject: East Bengal beat Abahani
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:16:57 CST



 Calcutta East Bengal club beat Abahani KC 1-0  in the semi-final match
of the Bordolui football tournament, in Gouhati,Assam. Both the
teams played a rough game. Early in the game Rehan of Abahhani got
red card and Kuljit Sing of East Bengal got a yellow card. So most
of the time Abahani played with 10 players. Abahani was also without
their best player in the  defence, Munna.

---Zakir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: haque@signal.ece.clarkson.edu.soe (Anisul Haque,,,)
Subject: Re: Independence vs Autonomy ( was Re: The
Reply-To: haque@signal.ece.clarkson.edu.soe
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:32:12 GMT

In article 1371@sol.cs.wmich.edu, hossain@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Moazzem) writes:

> 
> I would like to ask the same question that I asked in one my previous postings.
> Do you think that 6-point movement should have been the liberation movement from the
> very beginning? 
 
I don't think so. In fact, I don't find the question relevant. The 6-point movement 
was NOT the liberation movement. I find it very hard to digest if someone claims that 
the ultimate intention of AL was to achieve independence (or to secede from Pakistan) 
right from the begining of the 6 point movement. Wouldn't that make the Agartala 
conspiracy true? The liberation movement was a result of a series of events starting from 
48 in which the 6-point movement played a very important role. But the course of events 
wasn`t under anyone's control, not even AL's.

Why was the liberation war? The best answer is given by Zahir Raihan in a story 
published in "Muktijudhher Galpa". The answer is "Somoyer Prayojone" (because the time 
dictated it).

> 
> --Moazzem

Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Rabindrasangeet
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:41:03 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI

In article <1992Oct1.234019.5954@tamsun.tamu.edu> adatta@cs.tamu.edu (Abhijit Datta) writes:
>
> In article 5555 bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
> writes :
>
> Before I say why I would disagree with some of Sayan's views, let me
> mention that I am no less a fan of Debabrata Biswas than possibly Sayan
> is and I am not even trying to pass a judgement on Biswas' style of 
> rendering Rabindrasangeet.
>	As we know and is also mentioned in the excerpt above, Biswas
> did take liberties with the music in fact quite often. My point is,
> all Rabindrasangeet singers are not Biswas and unless there is some
> kind of monitoring and checking (for at least a few decades or so) on 
> the lyric and music of Rabindrasangeet, these "liberties" may lead to
> undesirable and indelible distortions on such a magnificent cultural 
> heritage.  

I partially agree with Abhijit and indeed I admit that there is a
considerable risk of corruption of our cultural heritage including
Rabindrasangeet , particularly in these days of "pop culture" , in
the absence of a monitoring authority which does some kind of quality
control. My difference with Abhijit is that I don't think that 
censorship is a good solution.

The problem with censorship is that , if you support it, then you
are implicitly allowing certain high priests of culture to dictate
to you what is or is not "culture". However, in the case of culture,
it is individual and subjective judgement that should perhaps be 
the touchstone, not the dictates of an exalted cultural priesthood.

It is interesting to note that Debabrata Biswas was not the only 
victim of this dogmatic purism about Tagore's work . In the 1950's
Shambhu Mitra had to take a lot of flak for staging his innovative    
interpretation of "Roktokorobi" in Calcutta . 

Maybe we should wait for time and posterity to take care of the task
of separating the grain from the chaff, rather than appoint censors
of dubious talent and capability to do so. Anything which is of lasting
value usually manages to survive against all odds (for example,
Indian classical music has survived through the centuries with its
cultural identity almost intact).

I am curious to know whether  Rabindrasangeet in Bangladesh is 
subjected to a similar process of "quality control" ...i.e. does
artistes need to have approval from any official entity before
releasing a recording, as in West Bengal ?

>	Secondly, don't you think that Tagore experimenting with his 
> creation in his life-time is something different from others doing it
> after his death! If yes, then we should be more cautious in making
> assertions like "I have no doubt that .. etc. etc."
>
> Sincerely,
>  Abhijit
>

I admit that my attempt to second-guess what Tagore might have said
if he were alive, was a little hasty :)

-Sayan Bhattacharyya
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Subject: Abahani's win in Assam
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:02:27 CST



Abahani Krira Chakra has reached the semi-final of the Bordolui
Football tournament, in Assam,India. in prequarter-final they
beat Assam police 5-0 and in the quarter-final they beat
Nepal Airlines 3-0. Rumi and Mamun Joarder of Abahani played
a super game in the quarter-final.

other sports news
-----------------

* In Asain youth Hockey, in their first match Bangladesh beat
Singapore 7-2.

* In an exibition football match at Dhaka army stadium Bangladesh 
Armed Force beat Indian Armed Force 9-0. Indian team will play
3 more matches against BD Army, BD Navy, BD Air Force in Dhaka,
Chittagong and Khulna respectively.

---Zakir
From: kas5213@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: The word "liberation"
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:21:38 GMT
Reply-To: kas5213@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

The word "liberation" has been bothering me for the past couple of years. It
seems to me this word does not describe the War of '71 properly.
We were the majority in 1971, we did not get "liberated", we simply separated
ourselves from Pakistan. The Webster Dictionary defines "liberate" as "to set
free, as from bondage". I personally take great offense when people tell me
that we were "liberated". 
					ADNAN SIDDIKY

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine and mine only. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: kazi@dobie.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: He should never have done it..
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:09:45 GMT

He should never have done it. Never. He moaned in pain, as he
lay on his back on the cold hard floor. There was blood. Some
of it seeping into the soil. The same soil that had received
the blood of so many million Bengalis in 1971. His brand new 
tetron shirt was in tatters. Pieces of it flew around in the 
autumn air. How could he have been so stupid? 

He felt himself. No. No broken bones. The mob had gone silent
again. Intent in the activities in front of them. An activity
that suddenly transforms a docile person into a violent
barbaric frenzy.

God! He should never have done it...



He should never have rooted for Mohammedan from an Abahoni gallery.

-- Cheers :-)
   Zunaid
   kazi@cis.udel.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Romance Myths
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:42:14 GMT

In article <lcf7vjINNlfa@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>If anything, I think Tagore's popularity amongst the masses of Bangladesh
>is even less than that in W. Bengal. However, he is quite popular 
>among the educated urban middle classes. There are many music schools
>in Dhaka which teach Tagore, Nazrul and other songs.  
>
>I have heard speculations that if it was not for Debabrata Biswas,
>Tagore songs would have remained even less accessible to Bengalis. He
>was the first great popularizer of Tagore songs. And of course, his
>songs are the best things that Tagore left us.
>
>- Ihtisham Kabir


I think that it would be more proper to say that the first great
populariser of Tagore's music was Pankaj Kumar Mullick. I would
doubt that Debabrata Biswas had a big role in popularisation of
Tagore's music, for unfortunately he was persecuted for a long time
by the music "establishment: in West Bengal for a long time and
for quite a long period he wasn't even allowed to record Tagore's
songs. His autobiography , in which he talks about it, is called
"Bratyojoner Ruddhasangeet" ("Imprisoned Music of an Outcast")  .

The person who is responsible the most for really popularising
Tagore in West Bengal at least is , I think, Hemanta Kumar Mukherjee.

Incidentally, could some kind soul on this newsgroup post something
on who are the leading Rabindrasangeet singers in contemporary 
Bangladesh ? I have heard about some of them (such as Rezwana
Chowdhuri Bonya) but unfortunately my knowledge is very meagre.

Shubhechhante,

-Sayan Bhattacharyya.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hossain@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Moazzem)
Subject: Re: Independence vs Autonomy ( was Re: The word "liberation")
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:10:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.165808.27391@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> was@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (wasif.sattar) writes:
>> 
>> I understand that this "fact" might be hard to believe, and since I have
>> nothing more informative than what I have already said, we should as well
>> ignore this; unless there are corroborative evidence (if any). I apologize for 
>> bringing up something for which I am unable to provide references.   
>> 
>> >	Anisur Rahman
>> >	5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu
>> 
>> - Zunaid
>>   kazi@cis.udel.edu
>
>I think it was all right on Zunaid's part to bring up the topic. I can
>understand his reluctance to name names. In a country like Bangladesh
>people often make comments off the record (remember the famous statement - 
>"According to an official who declined to be identified" you see in so
>many media reports?). Governments change but the mainstay of the civil
>administration remains the same. Government officials have to watch and
>tolerate the antics of politicians in power and those who have knowledge
>of some quirks of people in high places dare not identify themselves in
>public in making off the cuff remarks for fear of damaging their own
>careers and readjusting their life expectancies.
>
I don't think anyone has any problem with Zunaid's bringing up the topic.
However, the problem arises when some one tries to infer something based
on that topic with no basis. If someone is not willing to disclose his/her
identity then we should not use his/her comments/remarks to define some other
person. That's the whole point.

>Shubhechhante,
>Wasif

---Moazzem