HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: First Horse
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:43:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug21.224337.27513
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <1992Aug21.192153.4028@cs.cornell.edu> marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh) writes:
>In article <EeZHSyq00WBLM3unUY@andrew.cmu.edu> Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>I just purchased a 1 1/2 registered quarter horse, Touch of Elegance,
>>Ellie for short, for my daughter.   She has a very bad habit of
>>rearing and we have started using the chain around her upper nose
>>attached to the lead rope.  Is there any other options available.  I
>>realize we will have a lot of work to do with her, but she really is
>>spoiled and also kicks alot.  I got it in the stomach the other night
>>after she had reared at the sight of the killer wheelbarrow and then 
>>turned and kicked me (I don't think she was aiming for me, just a
>>lucky shot).  Thanks in advance.

YUCK!!! Well you do have quite a job on your hands :^).  Adrienne had some
good advice.  Get a "be nice halter" or rig up a system of your own
that will pull more on the polls than it does on the nose.  I think
the whip/crop is a good idea too.  I would recommend a "bat" type crop
that has a wide leather loop at the bottom.  It will hurt less than a
whip, but it has a loud popping sound that the horse will associate with
poor behavior.

Also, rearing is a basic refusal to go forward.  Teaching your filly
to ground drive will ultimately teach her the importance of moving
forward.  Of course...since she also kicks...you might want a
professional to do this training.


-Carol

ps.  Why did you buy this little beastie?  :^)
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: First Horse
Date: 21 Aug 1992 12:15:31 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <EeZHSyq00WBLM3unUY@andrew.cmu.edu> Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>She has a very bad habit of
>rearing and we have started using the chain around her upper nose
>attached to the lead rope.  Is there any other options available.  I


When we were trying to reteach my horse to load in a trailer (after a 
horse-eating trailer bit her once), she was busy fighting us and rearing
and all.  We had a chain over her nose, but that just brings the head
up more.  My trainer used a dressage whip against her chest anytime she
went up.  About 4 or 5 whacks later, she stopped going up.

I don't like beating a horse, but there are horses that are dangerous,
and yours sounds like one.  I'd fix it fast, which might mean really
'meanly'.  The point is to insure that the whip lands on the horse within
2 seconds of the misbehavior, and make sure that whip strike counts.  
Hitting too long after misbehavior on the part of the horse doesn't count
(except perhaps as misbehavior on the part of the handler (-:).  And just
'tapping' because you don't *like* hitting, doesn't solve the problem and
actually prolongs it.  Have that whip in your hand any time you work around
the horse -- for MONTHS after the behavior has stopped.  

I had a really wonderful appaloosa hunter that I just *loved* riding, but he
was unsafe on the ground.  He'd be gentle as a lamb until he got to the end
of the leadrope, then he'd lean his head away, taking the rope on his neck,
and take off.  I got a 'Be Nice' halter for him, which helped, but mostly I
just insured he never got to the end of the rope.  A "Be Nice" halter is like
a rope halter with rings instead of knots in it, so that when you pull on the
halter, the whole thing tightens up against his head -- poll, nose, cheeks, 
jaw.  I never felt safe tying him with it, though, so the poor thing had to
traipse around in two halters while I had him.

Finally I just sold him, because his ground manners were simply too unpre-
dictable at my house, with kids running around.  A shame, really.  But it
doesn't pay to have either a kicker or a striker.  And you need to attack it
*now* before the horse becomes confirmed in their bad habit.

Good luck!

Adrienne Regard
From: CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: synthetic saddles
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:40:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92232.214023CSS3
 <1992Aug19.064030.3598@desire.wright.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

apparently some people like and some hate synthetic saddles. I like mine pretty
 welll; have had a dressage model Wintec for 5-6 yrs. Still holding up fine and
 I use it 3-4 times/week. Only flaw -- and perhaps they changed this with later
 models, you could check them out -- is the material that the billet straps are
 made of. The holes for the girth buckles were pretty small and it seemed hard
to get the tongue of the buckle into the hole unless it was directly over the h
ole, none of this stretching the tongue into the hole like you can with leather
. This has sometimes made it hard to girth up. However, recently I enlarged the
 holes with a hole punch and that helped. To me, the saddle was comfortable,
affordable, compared to a leather saddle, very lightweight, very easy to care
for. I don't know why someone would complain (as one on the net said) that the
stirrup leathers are uncomfortable. I've never had that problem with mine. I
yearn for a really good leather dressage saddle someday but til I can get one,
I think this is a good compromise. Mary Ann Whitley, mqw5@psuadmin (bitnet) or
mqw5@ms.psu.edu (internet) . This is posted via my husband, address above, as I
 have e-mail at work but no access to the bulletin boards.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: brett@brett.intel.com (Brett Branch)
Subject: HELP SAVE THIS HORSE
Keywords: Auction, Tennessee Walker
Reply-To: brett@brett.intel.com (Brett Branch)
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:03:06 GMT

*****ATTENTION GREAT HORSE GOING TO AUCTION*****

This morning my Dad called me to tell me that Ray Mills, a prominent(sp?)
breeder of Tennessee Walkers is taking one of his studs to auction. Ray is
getting out of the horse breeding business and has been unable to sell this
stud so it is going to auction at 9:30am this morning (Friday Aug. 21).
This stud is half brother to one of my dad's horses. My dad's horse is one of
the finest Tennessee Walkers I've ever seen. This stud (which will probably

					    __Merry GoBoy
					   /
			  __GoBoy Sun_____/			    __Midnight Sun
			 /		  \			   /
			/		   \__Sun's Lullaby Lady__/
	  __Avenging Sun\
	 /		 \__Merry May Time_
	/
Midnight(this is the one going to auction)

Midnight Sun is one of the founding Tennessee Walkers. 

Neither my Dad nor I have anyplace to put this fine stud, So I am appealing
to anyone who has some room and would like to own a very fine stud.

THIS HORSE IS TO BE PICKED UP FOR THE AUCTION THIS MORNING AT 9:30AM
PLEASE CALL RAY MILLS AT (509)365-3494 IF INTERESTED. Area code 509 is Lyle WA.


****************************************************************************
Brett Branch			|	I didn't do it
iNTEL Corp.			|	Nobody saw me do it
696-4234			|	You can't prove anything...
brett@brett.intel.com		|
"Backup my hard drive? You mean these things will actually go in reverse?!?"
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)
Subject: side-pulls
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:51:22 GMT

Hmm. . . I don't know Tracy, several of the side-pulls I own have mouth
pieces. Both of them were marketed as side-pulls.  I have several books
on bits - I'll do some reading tonight on side-pulls vs. half breeds.
But for now - I stand with my original description of side -pulls.

Kitty Cummings
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: meganb@sequent.com (Megan Breninger)
Subject: Synthetic Saddle...
Summary: I enjoy mine!
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 15:07:10 GMT

I purchased a Wintec Dressage Saddle at a Tack Sale at a
local tack store.  I was able to get the saddle, (17")
the leggings, the girth and the pad for $329.00.  I purchased
a show pad at the same time for it for $27.00.

I have used it at 2 Dressage shows, and for 2 Dressage
lessons, and 2 or 3 more times inbetween.  I absolutely
love it!  I removed the visible Wintec labels, and I've
been told that some people use it up to third level.  I'll
never get that far, so it's just fine with me.  It washes
so easily, too.  I take a wet rag, wring it out, wipe the
saddle...it's that simple.  You can even take a mild soap
and softish scrub brush to it, if need be, then rinse it
off with a hose and hang dry.  It's great!

And, yes, it is VERY comfortable, too!!!  :*)  It's light
and cushioney, deep seated and semi-high backed and is
wonderful to sit in at the sitting trot!

The only drawback is, you can't let it come in contact with
any leather saddles.  The oil used to condition the leather
on leather saddles will deteriorate the fabric of the synthetic
saddle over time.  (So the label says, anyway.)


Megan, Larry, Clyde, Edgar and Hank...
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: sidepulls
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:40:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


In Article 8260 kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming) writes:

Subject:side-pulls

>Side pulls come in many different styles than just the single rope nose
>band with no bit and side rings.  The basci construction of the
>side-pull will have the rings on the side and some sort of nose band.
>It's purpose is just what its name implies - it is supposed to enhance
>lateral or side to side movement/bending.  They are trianing gear and
>are not permissible in any actual competition that I am aware.

	They are allowable (I believe, perhaps, some endurance or competitive
trail people can correct me on this) in endurance and competitive trail.	

>Side pulls can, and many do have bits.  

	If it has a bit it is no longer called a side-pull it is a 
half-breed.

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: hunt seat equitation
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:37:09 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman) writes:

>In-Reply-To: <1992Aug15.105603.3495@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.e-
>du
> 
>Whilst on the subject of teaching/training one thing I've found
>suprising (bearing in mind I work Fridays at one riding school whilst
>having dressage lessons at another - purely due to the standard of
>the available horses) is that it is only the 'advanced' students that
>are taught to get horses on the bit and therebye having a light
>contact with the horses mouth. I personaly (and this is the opinion
>of a local freelance instructor) think that it is important that
>everyone is taught to ride with th horse on the bit as soon asx they
>are capable of understanding its importance.

In the true sense of the term, only very advanced students CAN ride
"on the bit" (which involves much more than rein contact).  I'm not
sure I agree that beginners should be taught to ride on contact - it's 
a good way to make a hard-mouthed horse.  Alas, the way _I_ learned to 
ride back in the dark ages - long looping reins until seat was _firmly_
established (trotting in two-point with no reins) - seems to have gone
the way of the dodo, and I see a _lot_ more people balancing on their
horse's mouths.

Pat
--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: black quarter horses
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:56:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In an article elainel@cco.caltech.edu (Elaine E. Lindelef) writes:

>There are two different forms of black found in horses: jet black and
>fading black. A jet black horse is black over his entire body, and
>will remain that way regardless of sun exposure. A "fading black" is
>usually born a mousey grey/brown color which darkens to black. Fading
>blacks will lighten with exposure to sunlight. The gene that causes
>jet black is rare in most breeds, though it is common in Shetland Ponies
>and Tennessee Walkers.

And Clydesdales, and Friesians, it seems to be more prevalent in draft 
breeds than in saddle horse breeds.

>To tell a black horse from a dark bay, look at the hairs on the face,
>especially around the muzzle. A black horse will have black hairs on the
>face, even if other areas on his body have faded, while most bays will
>have some tell-tale brown hairs near the muzzle.

Also, when just body-clipped the black horse will stay black (so long as 
they aren't in the sun, whereas the bay or black bay horse will again
look a bit mousy or bayish or brownish, the undercoat being a little
lighter on these than the blacks.

>Jet black supercedes bay, while bay supercedes fading black. (Different
>loci are involved, so "dominant" isn't really the right word.)

>For a thorough discussion, I recommend "Equine Genetics & Selection
>Procedures," from Equine Research, Inc, and/or 
>"Horse Color," by D. Phillip Sponenberg and Bonnie V. Beaver, published
>by Texas A & M University Press.

>Elaine Lindelef

An Excellent article, I agree with it wholeheartedly!

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Subject: Re: Horse attacking ...
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:57:20 GMT

In article <20AUG199216560543@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu> broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) writes:
>
>I have SEVERAL horses that think it is jolly fun to chase stray dogs from the
>pasture. My ex-stallion is the only one that appears to be hostile at all
>though. Most of the youngsters are more interesting in "tasting" the dog or
>cat than in pulverizing it while the older horses enjoy the chase more.

My old horse Cappy (gee I miss him) always seemed to have an inordinate
interest in small creatures and would always want to investigate dogs,
cats, babies...  The only time he ever chased anything, I was so 
convulsed with laughter I nearly fell off!

We were warming up in one of the dressage arenas on a very long rein,
and there were a several pigeons also in the arena, scavenging for
undigested grain.  Our 20m circle chanced to take us very close to 
one of the pigeons and it puffed out its chest and started running
as fast as it could, only it was too stupid to actually get out of
the way for several moments.  Well, I guess Cappy decided this was
lots of fun because then he put his nose on the ground and headed
straight for the next hapless pigeon... and the next... and the
next...

  Debbie
  deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Synthetic Saddle...
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:02:18 GMT

>I purchased a Wintec Dressage Saddle at a Tack Sale at a
>local tack store.  I was able to get the saddle, (17")
>the leggings, the girth and the pad for $329.00.  I purchased
>a show pad at the same time for it for $27.00.
>
>I have used it at 2 Dressage shows, and for 2 Dressage
>lessons, and 2 or 3 more times inbetween.  I absolutely
>love it!  I removed the visible Wintec labels, and I've
>been told that some people use it up to third level.  I'll
>never get that far, so it's just fine with me.  It washes
>so easily, too.  I take a wet rag, wring it out, wipe the
>saddle...it's that simple.  You can even take a mild soap
>and softish scrub brush to it, if need be, then rinse it
>off with a hose and hang dry.  It's great!
>
>And, yes, it is VERY comfortable, too!!!  :*)  It's light
>and cushioney, deep seated and semi-high backed and is
>wonderful to sit in at the sitting trot!
>
>The only drawback is, you can't let it come in contact with
>any leather saddles.  The oil used to condition the leather
>on leather saddles will deteriorate the fabric of the synthetic
>saddle over time.  (So the label says, anyway.)
>
>
>Megan, Larry, Clyde, Edgar and Hank...

I often wondered about the reason for not using leather on synthetic.

I too have a Wintec, All purpose in my case. I normally ride Western but
occasionally I like to throw the English saddle on, especially if I don't
want to deal with the weight of the Western Saddle. I love it too. I
feel very secure in the seat and it is very comfortable.

Except! Being an occasional English rider, I almost never pull out my
Marlboro's (leather boots) just to do a little informal practice. So I
generally throw on a pair of rubber boots.

The Squeeking of the rubber boots rubbing on the synthetic saddle is
almost deafening, especially in a covered, enclosed arena and with other
people around! ;-) Very embarrasing!!!
From: sue@aeshq.UUCP (Susan Grocott)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: What's Milton's breeding
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:32:22 GMT
Reply-To: sue@aeshq.UUCP (Sue Grocott)
Distribution: rec.equestrian
Organization: AES Headquarters, Environment Canada, Toronto, Canada

A while ago someone (sorry I forget who :-) asked about Milton's breeding.
At the time I thought - "hmm, I dunno", and hit 'n', but yesterday while I
was browsing the bookshelf at my local tack shop I saw the book "Milton".
So I thought it would be easy to find the details in there - wrong :-)   
There's a few pages on his family tree, but nothing black and white - very 
weird.  Anyway, this is what I gleaned:

Sire - Marius - Imported from Holland (presumably DWB - oh sorry -
					      Dutch Warmblood)
Dam           - "half bred" ( presumably TBX - yeah - Thoroughbred Cross)

GrandDam (is that a legit. term :?) was 3/4TB I think.

I didn't see any reference to what the other 1/2 of the Dam or other 1/4 of
the GrandDam was - but I only spent a few seconds looking at the book, so 
the details are probably in there somewhere.

The discussion seemed to be along the lines of "...everyone was surprised
he could jump because his father was ..... and his mother was only ...".

Sue Grocott

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores (was: show jumping results)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:52:00 GMT

>I applaud the communication comment.  But if you are communicating so
>well then why are (were) you using a mechanical hackamore only in competition??
>My thought is you should be able to compete well in whatever you use
>to school at home and if you can't then something is wrong with your
>schooling or communications.
>                                Tracy

Tracy:

I agreed with everything you said up to this point, and found all
the info on different types of hackamores and transitional devices
very interesting. But I have to say that, most of the time,
"schooling" and "competing" are different in that you school a horse
in a way that will make him/her behave a certain way in competition.

Schooling can mean that you ride very lightly at home, because your
horse tends to be hot and you want to be able to work him down
before your classes. It can mean jumping certain types of fences
(offsets, gymnastics, etc.) that she will never see in the show
ring, but that get her in the habit of jumping in a certain form. I
believe this also applies to bits: I was recently riding a VERY hot
jumper who at home I rode in a breaking bit, in order to keep his
mouth soft and sensitive. That way, when I stepped up the bit at
shows, he would respond to it. If I used my show bit every day at
home, he soon would have been desensitized to it and it would have
been useless. The idea is to use gentler equipment at home, then
step it up at shows to counteract the corresponding increase in, er,
enthusiasm that the horse tends to display in these exciting
situations.

Okay?

-gwyn
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Date: 18 Aug 1992 23:32:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx

In article <1992Aug18.183516.20069@ctr.columbia.edu> lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims) writes:
>I think this is an old cavalry training device.  I first
>learned to ride at a place called Briggs Stable in Hanover,
>Ma.  Mr. Briggs was an old cavalryman.  Several of the
>older girls said that he had pulled this on them.  It was
>called "balancing the saddle".  Right up there with riding
>Roman.

What a small world it is!   Mr. Briggs was the first trainer of my
former trainer in Massachusetts, Linda Berwind, when she was a
little kid.  He now runs a small lesson and boarding stable in
Weston, Mass.  I don't know him but I have heard that he uses
techniques that others consider really unsafe for the riders.
Maybe riding without a girth is one of those!

As for stories about riding without a girth, when I first started
taking riding lessons I rode Western.  I was riding a Saddlebred
that was pretty thin, and apparently the horse had blown up
when girthed and the instructor didn't notice until the end
of our one hour long trail ride lesson at 3 gaits.  The girth
was hanging several inches below the horses belly!  That was
the point when she told me it was time for me to learn to ride
English, because if my balance was that good, she had nothing
more she could teach me!  So, perhaps if not for that event
when I was a kid, I would never have discovered the joys of
riding English and jumping!  Anyway, it taught me to check my
girth after getting on!

Sarah Pallas 

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Re: hunt seat equitation
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:23:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: phobos.avs.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I think I would have to agree that the lower leg helps when
posting without stirrups.  After all, the thing that's keeping
you there is friction, and the more leg surface contacts
saddle surface (preferably boot leather to saddle leather),
the more friction.  Crabtree's point was that this equitation
test was being called for without much appreciation of what
it was actually proving--short riders vs the brute strength
of taller riders.

The evolution of riding styles is interesting.  One of the
European men at the Olympics was using what looked like 19th century
jumping--he'd lean back as the horse completed the arc
over the jump like a steeplechase rider.  The commentator
said that the weight shift was "forcing the horse's hind
end to power over the end of the jump".  I had never seen
this before.

I had always wondered where on earth saddle seat came from.
Deb Bennet maintains that it is a descendant of 19th century
German classical dressage.  As her story goes, many German horsemen
moved to the south in the 19th century and took their style of training
"high school" horses with them.  (As late as the 1920s,
you could find high school horse competitions at southern
shows that were otherwise pure 3- and 5-gaited.)  I don't
know if I accept it as final word, but it is an interesting
idea.



Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: Hackamores  (I'm posting this for Jodie Gilmore)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:46:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.135930.4648@cs.cornell.edu>,
marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh) writes:
>(an aside--I am amazed that Olympic people can use mechanical hackamores
>in show jumping. I am sure that if I had showed up at a jumping show
>in WA when I was showing, I would have been disqualified for inappropriate
>equipment!)
>
In jumpers, you can show with almost any equipment, unless it is
deemed cruel (ie: mondo spurs, tack nosebands, etc.). They only
limit you in hunters, medals and equitation classes, where the IDEA
is that manners/control are possible without undo gadgets.

-gwyn.gordon@forsythe.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian