HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:59:48 GMT

kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:

>In article <1992Dec8.230031.28771@fid.morgan.com>, sethb@fid.morgan.com
>(Seth Breidbart) writes:

>Because Jim Crow laws of 30 years ago didn't only say no ameriKKKan black but
>said "NO BLACKS!".

>The lgacy didn't end with slavery.  There were still laws up into the 60s that
>were meant to deny black folks equal treatment under the law.  If this wasn't
>the case why were black folks like MLK and others detained and beaten for 
>orderly demonstrations?  Why did Rosa Parks get arrested for not giving up
>her seat to a white woman on a bus?  It didn't end 133 years ago and it hasn't
>ended yet.

	I believe that it the standard arguement why whites still owe something
to blacks- it isnt becuase of slavery but becuase of continued discrimination.
But then again, there are MANY groups that have had the same kind of 
discrimination- asians, jews, irish, polish, etc.- that have all risen
above it and become successful. And the one question I have never heard
answered very well is why this is so for most groups, but not a few- such
as blacks. I don't mean to point to anyone and say they are a "model
minority" or to belittle their experience, but I do think this shows that
blacks give far to much power to the discrimination that exists, and for
a good measure they should look to themselves for the solutions to their
problems instead of only to others.

							Chad R. Collins
							collins@blkbox.com

			
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:28:22 GMT

ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

>  Neither of us wants to become integrated!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>  Who has been the primary detriment regarding the integration efforts of the 
>  1960's???  Oh no we don't want integration!
>  Remember 2,4,6,8 we don't want to integrate?
>  I didn't see no white folk in the ghetto trying to integrate into thier 
>  schools!  
>  Blacks may not want to integrate now, at least I don't since, IMO, it has
>  been a failure.
>  Regarding Vanilla Ice.  How many black rock stars do we see?  They are out 
>  there.  You can play on my turf but I can't play on yours!

	You mean like Michael Jackson and Tina Turner? Just a couple of
examples. I dont really see that part as true- nor have I ever heard a
white person say that they could be a rock star becuase they were black...
As for the 1960's- I dont know, I wasn't born then. All I know about is

what I have seen in my own lifetime, and what I see two sides that really
have no desire to work things out anymore.

>  How can we live together if we are both so different?  Good question.  Big
>  daddy U.S.A. should have thought about that 400 years ago. 
>  Go back to africa is not that old.  I had to hear it throughout high school
>  when neither myself or many whites were familiar with what Africa was all
>  about.  So what has happened to that phrase?  Are whites afraid it might
>  come true?  I'm game!!!  It is a solution to be considered.  U.S.A. certainly
>  has the military strength and financial wealth to carry it out.        

	Well, frankly, I don't think I would mind that- why dont you put
forth a bill with your local rep., and while you are at it why not take
Terry Parks and all his (or her, not sure which) friends with you... you
two seem to be made for each other. Honestly, I try to be reasonable and
what do I get? Another of the ameriKKKa speeches. Save it, I have heard it
all before.

Chad R. Collins
collins@blkbox.com

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5344 soc.culture.african.american:12961 misc.education:5325
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:02:27 MST
 <1992Dec13.020511.2386@samba.oit.unc.edu> <1992Dec14.105244.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
>  
>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.
> 
> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.
> 
  I was speaking in general.  Like I stated in one of my earlier postings, Ross
  Perot stated that in times of econmic decline in the U.S. blacks are first to
  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:32:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.020511.2386@samba.oit.unc.edu> Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>> All wealth opportunities which are biased on the basis of race
>>> are biased in favor in Blaks to the detriment of Caucasians. There does
>>> not exist any such opportunity restricted to Caucasians. However,
>>> set-aside contracts, hiring and promotional preferences, and
>>> educational preferences which are restricted to Blaks and denied
>>> to Caucasians are widespread and provide Blaks with a much greater opportunity
>>> to become wealthy.
>
>>  Man you are stone mad!!!  
>>  You actually believe there are all types of opportunities for blacks in 
>>  terms of employment, education, contracts, and promotion?
>
>Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
>
>>
>>  Let me share my personal experience with you and maybe we can try and figure
>>  out where all my grand opportunities went, or why I was denied them.  I was 
>>  So tell me where are all the opportunities?  Maybe I'm just looking in the 
>>  wrong places.  
>
>Try the Sunday newspaper. Look for jobs at AA employers. Being Blak qualifies
>you for employment with the Boston Fire Department, give them a call.
>Ditto for MIT, while in Boston look them up too.
>The RDU airport is setting aside 30% of its construction funds for
>"minorities", give them a call.
> 
>--
After all of this junk, Mr. Parks, could you explain why whites are still
3 to 5 times more likely to be hired over a black applicant with the same
qualifications as the white applicant. This study was done by the 
US department of labor. If blacks had all of this unfair opportunity, then
blacks should be hired more frequently over whites ? 
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5410 soc.culture.african.american:13146 misc.education:5458
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:52:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology

>After all of this junk, Mr. Parks, could you explain why whites are still
>3 to 5 times more likely to be hired over a black applicant with the same
>qualifications as the white applicant.

Because this is incorrect.

>This study was done by the US department of labor.

List the details of this "study" so its flaws can be made apparent.
Regardless, mandating and supporting racism in employment, such as
with AA, serves to increase the prevalence of racism in employment.

>If blacks had all of this unfair opportunity, then
>blacks should be hired more frequently over whites ? 

The existence of this "unfair opportunity" is fact. 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:07:37 GMT

cogsdell@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (tony c) writes:

>I guess he has never heard of the phrase...


>"It takes money to make money"

>Due to past inequities blacks are still the poorest people in America.

>Why is this?????

>"Blacks are Soooooo lazy they want to live in poverty" --> while every
>other group has a higher standard of living???????????

	I believe that hispanics are now the poorest people in this
country- not blacks.                   

					Chad R. Collins
					collins@blkbox.com



Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:53:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
| Answer: A consistent and systematic attempt by one ethnic group to 
|         maintain political, social or economic dominance or control
|         over another within a society.

Groups don't act -- people do.  This attempt at making an ethnic
group a moral agent is intended to allow flagrant discrimination
based upon race (racism) but avoid the appropriate term.

Nice trick.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:01:32 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
| History, because Jim Crow was nothing but codified slavery!  

Jim Crow was despicable, but it wasn't slavery.  Equating the
two cheapens the suffering of all those who were (and are today)
enslaved.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:42:29 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1992Dec16.122702.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
B
>  How can we live together if we are both so different?  Good question.  Big
>  daddy U.S.A. should have thought about that 400 years ago. 
>  Go back to africa is not that old.  I had to hear it throughout high school
>  when neither myself or many whites were familiar with what Africa was all
>  about.  So what has happened to that phrase?  Are whites afraid it might
>  come true?  I'm game!!!  It is a solution to be considered.  U.S.A. certainly
>  has the military strength and financial wealth to carry it out.        


So, we repatriate, they leave, leaving gold, diamonds, oil, etc in the hands of blask people (like ANC, NOI etc...) No. I dont think so. Whitey dont play that.


*********************************************************************************     well now. you want both mine and yours too. didnt you know thats greedy? *
*lashlepi@newton.tuns.ccs.ca                                                   *
*Fax: (902)-420-7858                                                           *
*    Look, anything i say, i am responsible for thinking and writing, not      *
*                   withstanding divine intervention                           *********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5320 soc.culture.usa:9208
From: bmcnulty@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (BOB MCNULTY)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.usa
Subject: li'l help please
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:45:59 GMT
Reply-To: bmcnulty@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu


          My wife has challenged me to find a list she saw
several years ago in a magazine.  It has two columns comparing the
different names given to men vs women for the same traits.

ie.    He;  is assertive                She;  is bitchy


and so on.........


If anyone has this list could you please e-mail it to me as I don't usually
subscribe to this news group?  

          THANKS IN ADVANCE.




        ////////      "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition
       (       )        from mediocre minds."   
        \ @ @ /                          A. Einstein
-------w---U---w----
Bob McNulty, CA. STATE UNIV., CHICO
BMCNULTY@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5412 soc.culture.african.american:13148 misc.education:5460
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:39:29 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec16.171252.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>>>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>>>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?

>>>>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.

>>>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>>>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.

>>>  I was speaking in general.  Like I stated in one of my earlier postings, Ross
>>>  Perot stated that in times of econmic decline in the U.S. blacks are first to
>>>  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 

>> 1.  Union seniority rules
>> 2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>> skill, low wage work.

>  And what about the skilled and educated blacks, like me?  Where do they work?
>  I can tell you where they end up living.  The salvation army, and the street!

Really?  Personally, I think you are talking bullshit.  I challenge
you to provide stats showing the percentage of blacks with college
educations living on the streets.  You imply it's over 50%, but I'll
be satisfied if you can show it's over 10%.

If you end up on the street (something I consider a real possibility
based on the level of intelligence you have displayed so far on the
net) it will be becasue of your own stupidity.  That's a factor you
don't include up above.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
Subject: Affirmative action is dead
Keywords: quotas 
Organization: a gora, Pdx OR
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 14:55:52 GMT


pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
> I predict that what is now called 'AA' will eventually degenerate into a
> permanent policy of quota-based hiring, with continuing refinement as to
> which groups are entitled to which-sized quotas. I point again to South
> Africa as a precedent for a society which bases everything on race, and I
> suggest again that this is not the example we want to follow.


  The Clinton administration should provide a test of this type of policy,
as he seems intent on getting a quota cabinet.  He says it should look
like America, but evidently he means this only in a superficial way.
There will apparently be no low-income people or non-college graduates
included, for example.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:23:52 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
| I can name thousands of Jim Crow laws that were in
| effect until 1980 (and some later)!  

I'll bite -- how about 10 examples that were actually enforced
between 1975 and 1980.  You don't get points for laws (like seduction,
for example) that were on the books but ignored.  Particularly
when they were ignored because they obviously would have been
struck down.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:55:36 EST
From: Victoria E. Ames <VA2452A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Why Black History is Important!

I tend to agree that history has been "white washed" but instead of demanding
that new texts concerned with African,Hispanic,Asian or any other ethnic group
be used to replace the current history texts, perhaps we would do better to
demand that the current texts be corrected to include a broader historic
perspective.  Case in point, Christopher Columbus.  While he "discovered" the
land on which we all reside upon, his arrival also caused the extinction of
many peoples who were already here.  We are taught the first part in school but
are never informed of the latter. Many people who post in this discussion group
seem to think one slanted view should be replaced with another.  A more integra
ted and inclusive history program seems to me to be more desirable.  History is
not dates, facts etc. but a record of events which have had an impact on other
events.  However, it is taught as if events happen in a vacum without consequen
ces.  This is what I feel to be the major problem.
I went to a private quaker school in Washington, D.C. for my entire pre-college
education. I read The Autobiography of Malcom X in the seventh grade.  We were
taught with a multi-cultural vision of the world in mind, although what we read
in textbooks was "white washed" the same way all textbooks seem to be.  Our
textbooks were supplimented with primary sources and novels which opened us up
to many different views.  We were also encouraged to express our opinions, good
and bad, so long as we could back them up.  The reason I am writing my scholast
ic history out is to illustrate one possible answer to the problem and
to show that not all students were subjected to the same program in high
school.
I don't have all the answers to our country's racial problems, but I do know
that we need to teach the whole truth to everyone before we can progress as a
cohesive society.
             Vicky Ames

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:05:11 GMT

>> All wealth opportunities which are biased on the basis of race
>> are biased in favor in Blaks to the detriment of Caucasians. There does
>> not exist any such opportunity restricted to Caucasians. However,
>> set-aside contracts, hiring and promotional preferences, and
>> educational preferences which are restricted to Blaks and denied
>> to Caucasians are widespread and provide Blaks with a much greater opportunity
>> to become wealthy.

>  Man you are stone mad!!!  
>  You actually believe there are all types of opportunities for blacks in 
>  terms of employment, education, contracts, and promotion?

Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?

>
>  Let me share my personal experience with you and maybe we can try and figure
>  out where all my grand opportunities went, or why I was denied them.  I was 
>  So tell me where are all the opportunities?  Maybe I'm just looking in the 
>  wrong places.  

Try the Sunday newspaper. Look for jobs at AA employers. Being Blak qualifies
you for employment with the Boston Fire Department, give them a call.
Ditto for MIT, while in Boston look them up too.
The RDU airport is setting aside 30% of its construction funds for
"minorities", give them a call.
 
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5353 soc.culture.african.american:12984 misc.education:5343
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:12:52 MST
 <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu> 
 <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
> 
>>>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.
> 
>>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.
> 
>>  I was speaking in general.  Like I stated in one of my earlier postings, Ross
>>  Perot stated that in times of econmic decline in the U.S. blacks are first to
>>  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 
> 
> 
> 1.  Union seniority rules
> 2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
> skill, low wage work.
> --
  And what about the skilled and educated blacks, like me?  Where do they work?
  I can tell you where they end up living.  The salvation army, and the street!
> 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:05:00 GMT

>>> Consider this
>>>scenario as shown in the Prime Time live episode : A black guy goes
>>>looking for a job and is told there are no positions avaialble. A few
>>>minutes later this white guy goes to apply for a job at the same place
>>>and is made to fill out an appliction form to fill and

>>Fire the interviewer, fine the company a lot of money, require them to
>>pay compensation to the black guy.  That seems like a better solution
>>to me than requiring some totally separate company to give a job to
>>some totally unrelated black woman.

>The solution is no solution at all, simply because problems of proof
>make it impossible to successfully prosecute most instances of
>discrimination.  All an employer needs to do is disguise
>discrimination by finding "bona fide" excuses. 

This is not true in the very example you presented.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education