From: ketchum@gandalf.network.com (Bret Ketchum)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Organization: Network Systems Corp.
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:11:42 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

cvacura@uswat.uswest.com (V) writes:
>Matt Rein writes:
>>BTW, we hunt deer in and out of wolf country here in MN.  The hunting is
>>the same in both places as far as I can tell.  

> I have to disagree with that.  This last season some wolves moved into
> one of our hunting areas in Northern Minnesota.  We saw 10 deer on
> opening day, 2 deer and a set of wolf tracks on Sunday morning (BTW
> one of the deer was running from a swamp for no apparent reason??),
> more wolf tracks on Monday and nary a deer for the rest of the season.
> Fortunately, we have other land to hunt and we filled up.  The other
> hunters we know who stayed went 1 for 6.

	Gee, this year we (two hunters) saw 3 deer in as many hours opening
morning. The following day nothing, absolutely nothing. But this can't be
blamed on wolves as there is a game refuge 2 miles away. Maybe there is
a more logical (read less stereotypical) explanation.
	I've seen deer poke out from a small cedar swamp while a "hunter"
waddled around the other side just 30 yards away. Still brings on the grins
and giggles.
	
>	People lose dogs there to wolves all the time.  One of the
> people I know lost an Irish Setter and all they found was blood and
> red fur.  He bought a huge Great Pyrenees (sp) and it was shredded the
> same year.  Then he bought an Irish Wolfhound and his only problem was
> keeping it in the yard. w He was afraid it would get ganged up on in
> the woods.

	All of the stories I have any personal knowledge of involved
dogs that ran. Now wolves are territorial, will chase off other
wolves and a dog don't look unlike another wolf.

> Wolves do kill just to kill.  We found a dead doe on a lake shore with
> one fawn about 100 yards out and a second fawn about 300 yards out.
> Their legs and throut were pretty ripped up but not much was eaten.
> We found a buck that had been hampered by deep snow practically
> skinned alive with nothing significant missing.

	The only other time I have heard a story like this was when a
couple of us were snow shoeing back to a "hidden" lake for a little
ice fishing and were tagging up with a CC ski trail when we happened
upon a couple that were resting. We stopped to yak a little and they
told us that there was a ripped up carcass further up the trail about
a K. We had to travel that way (along the side of the trail - well off
the track; I CC ski also) so we stomped on a little further until we
found the "ripped up carcass". The carcass was an old doe with
virtually nothing left of her teeth and was ripped up by all the
little critters that run in the woods - including loose dogs.  There
wasn't a wolf print for 50 yards (thats as far as we bothered to
look). And before anyone asks, these dogs were hunters as in the deep
snow you could just make out the web between the toes.

> I was told by the logger that built my dad's house that a pack of 5
> wolves will kill about 25 deer a week when the snow is deep and they
> are herded up.  Who knows if it's an accurate.  He was a real wolf
> hater.  Perhaps he had cause?

	Now we get to the meat of the story and the reason I bother
to post at all. This kind of "information" is the same basic stuff
used on the general public that may eventually take away my right
to hunt and fish. And I get really angry when this stuff comes from
somebody that I might meet in the woods. But then he regains his
senses and proceeds:

> Anyway, I think there's room for both of us as long as wolves are
> managed like any other animal.  There are certainly enough deer.  If
> the govt wants to get involved they ought to be prepared to pay
> ranchers for lost livestock.  They ought to introduce wolves in New
> Jersey.  8>) At least deer killed in the wild aren't dumped in a
> landfill.
>
>Just my few bits worth on a favorite subject.
>
>Craig
>
>I own guns, I hunt, I drive a motorcycle, I believe there is a God.
>I expect my freedom to do those things will disappear in that order.

	I own guns, hunt, haven't riden a motorcycle in oh say 10 years
and if a little of the misinformation that floats around high above our
heads is grounded we may keep our, as well as our children's right to hunt
and fish.

	Bret