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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:10:12 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: in school volunteer response

        I am a college student in Electrical Engineering Technologoy
at Rochester Institute of Technology, and I am a member of the Henrietta
Fire District in Henrietta New York.  My advice for responding from class?
Don't.  You are probably paying something above $20,000 for your education,
and it may be your only chance to get it.  I respond to many alarms either
at night, or on my free time, because with so few class hours, I can easily
shift my time.  But in my opinion, it's not worth it.  There are other
volunteers who I'm sure respond, and you shouldn't be expected to run on
100% of the calls.  For the record, I have never missed a class due to a fire
call.  One thing that volunteers often forget is themselves.  I had a very
good frind here last year who was heavily into our campus ambulance corps.
Many of you may remember him... "Firemarshall" Len.  Anyway, he missed
his share of classes to volunteer, and do you know where he is now???  At
home.

        My .002 cents.  PS - Feel free to tell me about your FD and how they
treat college students.  It is interesting to see what other departments may
think, since my department seems to look as anyone joining that is past 2nd
year as going to be in too short.

                                                        FireMAN
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Org.:     Army Materiel Systems Analysis Activity - APG, MD. USA
Phone:    (410) 278-7291   DSN: 298-7291
Fax:      (410) 278-2778/6242
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:38:34 EDT
From:         "Robert G. Kreisel (GWD)" <kreisel@BRL.MIL>
Subject: Re: Scanners Also

Discussions regarding scanners, antennaes, radios, cellular phones,
etc.  should be held on alt.radio.scanner

-rob
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: Kirk.Smith@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Kirk Smith)
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:10:32 GMT

Huh?  Too much of a good thing isn't necessarly a good thing.  If you're
getting rid of dextrosticks because D50 is harmless, do a little reading
on the administration of dextrose in CVA patients.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: stevew@netcom.com (Steven Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Scanners Also
Summary: Scanners, etc
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:26:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct5.143026.4382@pro-berks.cts.com>,         "(Kenneth P. Lager Jr.)" <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM> writes:
> Now I am getting conflicting information:
> 
> 1) All information is consistant to the fact that is EXTREMELY illegal to
>         listen to cellular phones.  NO EXCEPTIONS!
> 
> 2) The information concerning cordless phones is vague.  Some ??'s are:
>         A)Is cordless phone listening legal

Except in CA it is legal to monitor a cordless call.  CA has a privacy
law that takes this situation into account.

>         B)Would that then make walkie-talkie listening also illegal.


Walkie-talkies are Part 15 devices normally operating within the 
Citizen`s Band Service Fr3equencies.  They are not covered by the ECPA.

It's ok to listen to walkie-talkies, etc.


>         C)What about a landwire phone comm. cable that bled either onto my
> scanner or even my FM radio?

Landwire phone comm. cable doesn't radiate at normal radio frequencies, it
works at audio frequencies.  (Not talking about microwave links, et al. here)
So this isn't a technically feasible question.

 
> 
> If anyone has any DEFINATIVE answers, reply.  The differences may just be
> a difference in what state you are in (PA, DC, NY, CONFUSION)
> 
> 
> Awaiting Replys,
> Ken Lager
> Fire/Rescue, National Cave Rescue

Steve Wilson KA6S
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:58:19 -0500
From:         AIRBORNE THE FIREMAN IS BACK <CDUNBAR@UNTVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: JAFO?

FireMAN,

The movie is called Blue Thunder...  it is a movie about the government arming
civilian police choppers with internal weapons.  They use design fragments from
an AH-64 Apache in the front half and design attributes from the Aerospatiale
SA 342 Gazelle in the rear half in the helicopter called BLUE THUNDER;  built
with a 20mm gatling gun nose mounted and controled like the AH-64 Apache,
infra-red scope, guidance, and targeting systems, high intensity audio and
video scanners, zoomers, and receptors, armor plating, whisper mode, (and in the
   TV show) ECM.  Surely a military piece of hardware in civialian hands....

ANYWAYS....  Roy Scheider plays a divorced career police chopper pilot who is
chosen to fly BLUE THUNDER out on test patrols.  Generally, in police
operations, the person in the co-pilot's seat is the observer>  His co-pilot
is handed a navy blue cap with the letters JAFO on it.......

And there you go!  =)

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Chris Dunbar                    Internet: CDUNBAR@UNTVAX
University of North Texas       (that was bitnet, sorry =)
3rd year Computer Science major Internet: CDUNBAR@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU
Cypress Creek Vol Fire Dept.    Internet: CDUNBAR@SOL.ACS.UNT.EDU
Argyle Fire Department          Internet: CDUNBAR@PONDER.CSCI.UNT.EDU
Level I Firefighter Certification in Texas, the Republic of!!!     =)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters
Date: 9 Oct 1992 15:41:27 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Oct9.151127.19750@crd.ge.com> saltzman@ISOVAX writes:
>The introduction of the pulse oximeter was stimulated my our
>medical control and education physicians, not by field personnel
>and there is still debate as to whether the benefits are consistent
>with the cost of putting on each ALS rig.

Aside from the COPD/asthma scenarios you mentioned, there's another time it's
helpful: during CPR, especially before ET intubation. It's a better gauge of
CPR effectiveness than you'd guess at first - if you're oxygenating the
fingertips, you're also oxygenating the brain, and some blood does still get
out there (especially if your CPR is effective).
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
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From: bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Emergency services in the U.K.
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:16:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

To what degree are the EMT protocols as practiced in the U.S.
agree with the U.K. protocols?  How well do certification and
licensing levels correspond?

-- 
    Randolph Bentson                 Colorado State University
    bentson@grieg.CS.ColoState.Edu   Computer Science Department
    303/491-5792                     Ft. Collins, CO 80523
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: silber@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jeffrey Silber)
Subject: Re: RE: Emt Bystander
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 02:25:51 GMT


In this region things are fairly strict about carrying ALS equipment.  EPI
(presumably with needles), etc. requires a doctor's prescription.  Carried
in an official vehicle it is covered by your medical director's license.
It may even be if it is in a personal vehicle in your region (but check with
your region).  But it is probably not covered elsewhere.  

BLS is fine (and I carry BLS stuff wherever I drive and have always been
appreciated when I have stopped to assist).

-- 
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
                                                          --Sen. Everett Dirksen
Jeffrey A. Silber/silber@tc.cornell.edu
AD-Admin Svcs/Cornell Center for Theory & Simulation in Science & Engineering
From: matthews@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU ((Matt Sullivan))
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Scanners Also
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:55:08 GMT
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
              Oct 8, 92 4:26 pm

I realize that everybody is tired of this thread, but one last question.
What about the old-style Mobile Phones? I believe that I read somewhere
that they, along with cellular phones, are illegal to listen to.  There
aren't really many of them left, but I think that it's illegal to monitor.


            _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
            |Matt Sullivan  Northeastern University 1996     |
            |Matthews@Lynx.CRC.northeastern.edu              |
            |MWS@maine.maine.edu   (Vacations Only)          |
            |_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-|
                      Go U.Maine Black Bear Hockey!
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:42:55 -0400
From:         JFS5986@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject: Re: [KEN: Re: Pulse Oximeters]

<        Yeah.  I guess that it just helps to make sure that everything's
<working all-right.  Kind of when you type 2+2 EXE on your calculator, and
<you get 3.22345 E+26.   It's time to start doing things yourself.
<Unfortunately, nothing is as foolproof as to tell when it is malfunctioning
<all of the time.  Also, I may add that this cuff was most properly working
<on all the previous patients (I would hope so!!!)  Anyway, Does anybody
<know whether in New York State, EMT's can use them or not, or are they
<something that goes in conjunction with ALS.  Plus, so they really legally
<take the place of an EMT's manual readings on PCR's?  It would sound funny
<telling the lawyer that you guess you had it all hooked up right!!!

<                                                FireMAN


Yes it is legal to use automatic BP cuffs in NYS.  My home corps has had one
for eight years now (technology has come along way since then).  They are great
when you have long transport times or have trouble hearing the Pulse while
moving.  We have had problems with it before but when it malfunctions it is
obvious.

The example (I haven't heard of it - Which Hosp?) which you mentioned is not as
much a machine failure case as it is a negligence case.  BP is only one
indicator...a reference level!  A person in a motorcycle accident with MAST on
is going to have more signs and symptoms than just a BP.  Deflating MAST is a
long and involved process!  You can't just open a valve and a doctor has to do
it, not an attendant.  What about other indicators?  The patient had to have
gone unconscience before dying, as the BP dropped lower and lower the person
would pass out, become cyanotic, etc, etc,   The hospital deserves to get sued
over that one.   It makes me ill just to think I have taken pt there.

What hospital is it and when did this happen?

________________________________________________________________________________

                                  Jim Simons
JFS5986@RITVAX                                Henrietta vol Ambulance
Rochester Institute of Technology             Strykersville vol Fire and Rescue
Electrical Engineering (4th year)             RIT vol ambulance (LOA)
Detection Systems Inc. (coop)                 NYS certified EMT
________________________________________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:21:45 EDT
From:         PJ Geraghty <JX655C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      DC-area EMT classes

Apologies to those who don't care, but I tried to send this via e-mail and the
hosts couldn't connect or something.  Sounds like a personal problem, I know.
Anyway...in response to Luanne's question about DC-area EMT classes...

Your best bet for private-sector EMT courses would be through The George
Washington University.  They offer two programs: one on-campus for college
credit and one off-campus for no credit (but at a significantly lower cost).
Both will train you as an EMT-A and will allow you to take the National
Registry exam.

The on-campus program is offered at Rice Hall at 23rd and I streets NW.  The
fall semester class has already begun; the next one will start in January.
The off-campus program is offered in Fairfax County, VA.  I can't remember
what street it's on, but it's near the "leaky" Texaco plant.  Information on
both courses can be obtained by calling the on-campus EMS degree program office
at GW.  The phone number is 202-994-4372.

To answer the obvious questions: yes, I am a GW student, yes, I'm in the EMS
degree program, and YES we do need more students (or at least more money).  I
got my training (EMT and paramedic) here and I think it's one of the best
programs around.

_________________________________________________________________________
|PJ Geraghty, FF2/NR/MDEMT-P          | (insert opinion disclaimer here)|
|5020 Battery Lane                    |**********CUBS in '92!!**********|
|Bethesda, MD 20814        (SnailMail)|         (OK, maybe '93)         |
|301-652-0077/301-409-0648 (Telephone)|                                 |
|JX655C@GWUVM.GWU.EDU       (InterNet)| Support your local EMS; the life|
|CG071@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU (FreeNet)|  we save could someday be yours!|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:37:00 EDT
From:         MHODOSH1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Intro

Kelli,
I tried to send to you direct, but it didn't work.  Anyhow, I am in the
process of trying to form a squad or EMT response group at my college, Ithaca
College, NY.  I would appreciate any information you may have or could get
for me about GERMS.  I am particularly concerned about how the school
protects itself from liability.  How much does it costs and what options
are there.

ALSO, ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS ANY INFO ON STARTING AN EMS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES
PLEASE CONTACT ME!! -THANKS!!!

All your help will be greatly appreciated and worthwhile.

Thanks again!

Marc Hodosh
NJ & NY EMT
CPR/BLS Instructor
NJ ER Tech.

e mail-   MHODOSH@ITHACA
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:41:42 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: JAFO?

Ok.  I know exacly what JAFO means.  Even though my crew DIDN'T succede in
getting me in that damn Reeves stretcher, when I was one!  But I never
heard o f a movie called JAFO.  Is it about EMS or something, and is it
worth seeing?  You can reply by e-mail if you don't think this is net
material.
                                                        FireMAN
From: KKVW@MARISTB.BITNET (Taylor, Helena C.)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: CISD?
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:25:37 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Yes.. I was kidding about the joke "Empty minded twit" remark

I have been an EMT for four years, and am Quite proud of being one.
It's just a "catch-phrase" down at our corps.. such as JAFO..

*No! I won't explain JAFO to any of those few who haven't seen
the movie! "-)**

regards;
Helena
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:41:57 EST
From:         Y01S000 <Y01S@SETONMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Scanners Also

> BTW the radio spectrum as a whole is very large. There is only one small slice
> of the spectrum which Congress has made it illegal to listen to.
> Wanna know why?
> Because the cellular phone company has a very large PAC.
> And the law has not been challenged in court yet.
>
> The freedom of speech clause implies a freedom to listen.
> Amatuer radio operater (N3JVP) and Firefighter/EMT Aaron Peterson

Realizing that this discussion group is not the best forum
for discussions on cell phones etc., I must disagree.

I do not agree that the "freedom of speech implies a freedom to
listen".  In an increasingly sophisticated age, where in the not
so distant future many, many different types of data will be
transmitted using cellular technology I believe that privacy is
of the essence.  There are actually elements within the
government that want to make it (keep it) easier not harder to
eavesdrop on cellular conversations (i.e. FBI).  My humble opinion.

David
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: World fire fighter games 1994
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:03:56 GMT

Hi to all,
	If anyone is planning to attend the World Fire Fighter Games in 1994 in
Perth, an info request from the organisers...

The Lawn Bowls committee needs to know numbers of people who plan to attend
so venues etc can be planned. Would any brigade that plans to attend please:

E-mail to me ( Zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au )
Snail-mail to:	Doug Donnelly
		36 Glyndebourne Ave,
		Thornlie,
		West Aust     6108

Phone:		+61 (09) 323 9355 ( 0100-0900 GMT )
		+61 (09) 447 7114 other. Note the time zone folks!! GMT +8
					( 12 Hr ahead of US east coast time )

Any questions about the games I will endevor to answer/ forward to someone who
can.

Please distribute this as widely as possible


Thanks in advance,

~Paul

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From: technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow)
Subject: Re: Scanners Also
Followup-To: alt.radio.scanner
Organization: Technology News, IIT, Chicago, IL
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 06:29:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.143026.4382@pro-berks.cts.com> "(Kenneth P. Lager Jr.)" <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM> writes:
)Now I am getting conflicting information:
)
)1) All information is consistant to the fact that is EXTREMELY illegal to
)        listen to cellular phones.  NO EXCEPTIONS!

Correct. A _federal_ law provides for prosecution of cellular interception. The
only cases of prosecution for this have been instances where the conversation
was taped and re-distributed.

The Cellular industry pushed through the Electronic Communications
Privacy Act of 1990, which outlawed the intentiontal interception of
Cellular phone conversations.

)2) The information concerning cordless phones is vague.  Some ??'s are:
)        A)Is cordless phone listening legal

There is no FEDERAL law outlawing cordless phone listening, but some states
have laws, such as california.

)        B)Would that then make walkie-talkie listening also illegal.

No, walkie-talkies (e.g. business "blue-dot" radios) are open to all to
listen. However, if a communication is encrypted, you may not decrypt.

)        C)What about a landwire phone comm. cable that bled either onto my
)scanner or even my FM radio?
)
That is iffy- if you do not intentionally make an effort to interecept a
transmission, then they can't prosecute you unless it is proven that you
continued to listen after realizing that the comm. was protected.

)If anyone has any DEFINATIVE answers, reply.  The differences may just be
)a difference in what state you are in (PA, DC, NY, CONFUSION)

)Awaiting Replys,
)Ken Lager
)Fire/Rescue, National Cave Rescue
-- 
             There's a fine line between clever and stupid.

technews@iitmax.iit.edu                           kadokev@harpo.iit.edu
                         My Employer Disagrees.
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:33:54 EST
From:         "Taylor, Helena C." <KKVW@MARISTB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: JAFO?

Actually I was told that JAFO was a term used in a movie.. I can
remeber some of the things that they tried to do to me while I
was in that position... Of course, I never trusted them (grin) and
never left my back to an open door or window... :-)


Has anyone seen Mother Jugs & Speed or Paramedics? which one did
you like best?

Helena
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Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:10:47 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurence was
              retained.
From:         "(Kenneth P. Lager Jr.)" <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: NCRC

Yes, you are right.  I am Ken Lager and part of the NCRC.  That reference
was made by a non-caving friend of mine.  Hey, how did you know that
anyway.  E-Mail me at "kenlager" @ Pro-Berks and let me know, are you a
caver, are you a member of the NSS (36257).  Let me know!

Thanks,
Ken Lager
Fire/Rescue, National Cave Rescue Commission Staff
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:59:39 -0400
From:         TRAUMA JUNKIE <JAT8419@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Duty to Act

Youve heard...never delay hemorage control to find proper dressings

never delay clearing the airway to find propler suction..

well never delay CPR to find an ambulance
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:23:48 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: JAFO?

Personally, i thought Paramedics bit the big ET tube in the sky.

                                                FireMAN