From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan)
Subject: Re: Buddhism - A religion of atheists?
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:15:26 GMT


muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu  Ranjan S Muttiah at Purdue University Engineeri wrote:

:In article <1993Jan26.013917.2382@nuscc.nus.sg> cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan) writes:
:>
:>BUDDHISM - A RELIGION OF ATHEISTS?
:>of its followers, even among its clergy, are atheists!  This "atheist"
:>religion is Buddhism.

:To my surprise, one of the amazing things about this religion is that
:many of the followers do the same things as all the other religions:
:worship idols, make war.  In other words, as soon as it is called a
:religion, it has all the trappings of _a_ religion.

When Buddha was alive, people paid respect to him by prostrating to
him and his image, as that was the social norm for respecting a Guru
(Wise man) in ancient India.  After he died, some people continue paying
the respect.  This hardly constitute Idol Worshipping as Idol Worshipping
is when believers worship some idols as a God or Gods and often asks for
supernatural favours.

While it is true that Buddhists do sometimes fight wars, the difference
is that no war has ever been fought in the name of Buddha or Buddhism and
Buddhism has never given religious justification for any war in its
2,500 years.  Moreover, there has never been a single murder or 
Inquisition in the history of Buddhism.

:>The First Noble Truth states that sufferings and pain exists, and it
:>exists in every lifeform.  The Second Noble Truth explores the source
:>of (psychological) Pain.  Such pain, according to Buddhism, is caused
:>by the negative states of one's Mind: Greed, Hatred, Delusions,
:>Ignorant Desires, Jealousy, Anger etc.  All these negative states of
:>Mind torments the man and causes his experiences to be full of
:>sufferings.  The Third Noble Truth tells of cessation of Pain.  Since
:>Pain is caused by the negative states of Mind, the way to cease Pain
:>would be to develop the Mind such that all these negative states would
:>cease and be replaced by positive states of Mind like Peace, Love,
:>Compassion, Kindness, Wisdom etc.  The Fourth Noble Truth, also known
:>as the Eightfold Path, is a systematic method of developing positive
:>states of the Mind.  It is a complete package of spiritual and mental
:>training.

:The Fifth untold Noble falsehood is that your negative states of mind
:might be my positive state of mind i.e., you have a model for the mind
:without even knowing whether it is true. Quite irrational :-).  May
:be the mind needs pain to function.

The power of Buddhism lies in that it does no depend on theories or
theologies.  Buddhists don't have to argue whether "positive" states
of Mind are "negative" etc.  Buddhists verify with their experiences.
For example, after I became a Buddhist, I practised meditation on
calming anger.  In just a few wks, I get angry much less often and the
intensity of my anger was much lower.  I feel much happier without the
anger.  I don't have to argue whether it is a "positive" or "negative"
state to derive the benefits of the religion because I KNOW I feel much
better.

Indeed, the Buddha taught, "Don't believe in something just because I
said it is true.  Believe only when you have verfied it yourself and
know that it gives you spiritual benefits".  Quite different from the
"Blind Faith" demanded by other religions.


:>Indeed, Buddhism has more *positive* impact on modern psychology, for
:>example, than any religion has on any field of science.

:That's because Buddhism never enjoyed a power status.  Power corrupts.

I'm sorry, but historical and geographical facts show otherwise.  For a
few centries, Buddhism was the most powerful religion in India, China,
Japan, Korea, Sri-lanka, Indo-China, etc.  Even today, Buddhists make
up > 90% of the popln in Japan, Thailand, etc.  During the 3 centuries
of the Tang Dynasty in China, its Golden Age, Buddhism was the Official
State Religion.  During the reigns of King Asoka and other kings in India,
Buddhism was also the official state religions, and the list goes on.

However, I do agree with u that power corrupts.  In India, Buddhist clergy
in India became so corrupted that the religion collapsed there.  Singapore
Buddhism almost faced the same fate.  In Singapore, Buddhism was so corrupted
with superstitions and so little of its original philosophies were left that
one observer predicted in 1970 that Buddhism would die in Sinapore in 20 years.
Fortunately, Singapore Buddhism was saved by a group of Western monks and
nuns who brought the original religion back.

Thanks for the questions.  They made me learn more.  I hope I answered
some of your doubts.

Regards.

CHADE MENG

Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27514 alt.messianic:4163