HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hoahosth@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (ANDREA HOSTH)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:41:31 GMT

In article <8LTePB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes:
>From: mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget)
>Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
>Date: 12 Aug 92 20:04:30 GMT

>eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey) writes:

>- Pally Hoffstein pleads:
>-
>-    Since the topic of misrepresentational covers has come up so often, I have
>-    question for the net.
>-    Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
>-    contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
>-    accurate?
>-
>- _Stations of the Tide_

>To this I would also add _The Deed Of Paksenarrion_.  The cover is very
>interesting, and seems to be accurate.

Yep. Both the combined trilogy and the first novel individually (Sheepfarmer'
s Daughter) of this series feature Paks in full plate on a horse, looking 
Paladin-like. (Unfortunately Paks never rides anything bigger than a pony 
until the second book, so I guess this isn't wholly accurate, but what the 
hey). It is, however, one of the few female-fantasy novels which resist the 
tits-and-ass/Red Sonja's chainmail bikini approach completely. 

Ankh
From: MAYFLON@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Geoff Knobl)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Sharyn McCrumb
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:04:05 GMT

Recent posts have criticized Ms. McCrumb for poking fun at sf/fantasy
writers and fandom.  Some feel they are being made fun of.  Well,
McCrumb is making fun of fandom and writers in general.  She is making
fun of the traits and idiosyncrasies often exhibited by many in this
group.  She may even make up and idividual who displays the combined
traits of several people so we may look at them in a different if maybe
unflattering life.  (If that combined individual just happens to make
us think of Harlon Ellison (sp?), so be it! ;-) But, ya see, this is
the job of any satirist.  The novels Bimbos of the Death Sun and
Zombies of the Gene Pool are satires!  Get it!  We're suppose to laugh
at ourselves as well as realize our faults by comparing ourselves to
those characters.  In fact, the author is more concerned with the
changes of growing old in the second book than with satirizing fandom
and writers.  Though money may change anything, she does not plan to
continue the series.  That ought to make some of you happy.

As to anyone who complained about the lack of characterization and plot
development, well, I can't disagree with you there except to say that
they are both suppose to be fairly simple literary "pastiches" where the
main point is far removed from any complex characters or plots.  If
either were complex, we'd have a much harder time seeing the point(s).
Besides, she is not writing for college students, more for much younger
people, say from Jr. High on up.  And reading is more for a lark.

In short, take it all a little less seriously.

Geoff Knobl
Mayflon@VTVM1.cc.vt.edu
"My feet... in the sunset!"

P.S.  And besides, some of her character sketches are highly accurate
      when compared to the people from which she derived them.  Truly.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:48:42 GMT

In article <darknite.714030847@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>>>SPOILERS

>Which one did you think was the 'chief evil guy'?

Alberico.  Brandin ended up having admirable qualities, but Alberico didn't.
He wasn't even very good as a mage...

>I want Kay to write MORE, dammit, although I think writing
>anything else about Tigana would spoil the magic.

Agreed.

>But Brandin... Brandin is one of the most interesting characters
>I've come across in quite some time.  

I agree with everything you wrote about him.  He could have been a *hero* --
but he did some things, in his grief, that made him monstrous.  Maybe that
was one of the things Kay was deliberately trying to say?  If so, I think he
did a good point; and if not, he did a marvelous job of getting across
without realizing it 8-).

I think his empire's practice of capturing the concubines was evil.  I think
that his actions due to his grief at losing his son were evil.  The rest of
the things he did... were almost noble.  Some of them were definitely noble.

But, in the end, it all boiled down to him being unwilling to accept the
consequences of his actions%, until it was either that, or die.

--
% The invasion of the Palm was, presumably, at his direction.  And yet he
was shocked at his son's death?  A man too impressed with his own powers, I
think, and expecting his most-beloved-son to be the same.
--

>Which would you rather live under?

Brandin, definitely.  Under "normal" circumstances, he was a good ruler.
But he had too much power for his own good, I think.

Who knows, maybe Brandin and his love will be born again in Fionovarr, and
live and love there.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes)
Subject: Re: Recommended:  _Phoenix Guards_, by Stephen Brust
In-reply-to: kalash@starnine.com's message of Mon, 10 Aug 1992 21:50:42 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 01:32:23 EDT

In article <BssFCL.E9t@starnine.com> kalash@starnine.com (Joe Kalash) writes:

>Just to make it clear that there are those of us who disagree, I enjoyed
>"The Three Musketeers" (and Four, for that matter), but I REALLY started to
>dislike "Phoenix Guards" use of language after about 100 pages. There was only
>so much of that style I could take before it began to grate. The worse part
>was that it was such a REPETATIVE style. The same phrases were used again
>and again. At this point (.), I consider "Phoenix Guards" his less successful
>work (I liked it even less than "Fenn's Bar" (sigh, the book is at home)).
>
>Bu then, I haven't read Dumas in about 20 years. Maybe I wouldn't like
>him anymore either...

Maybe not. I read _The Three Musketeers_ for the first time when I
heard _The Phoenix Guards_ was coming out. I thought Brust did a
tremendous job of emulating Dumas's language. It didn't strike me as
any more "repetitive" than Dumas (or, probably, most other writers --
one notices repetition in Dumas and in TPG because of the unaccustomed
style, perhaps.)

I liked TTM and TPG both quite a lot.


--
Inspected by number 23
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diane Duane-door Into Sunset
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <714209428.F00003@tdkt.kksys.com>, ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet) writes...
> 
> Ci> Does Door into Sunset comes immediately
> Ci> after Door Into Shadow, or are there
> Ci> any books between the two?  I noticed
> Ci> that Door Into Shadow was (c) 1983, so

     Am I right in thinking these three WIZARD books are intended
     for young/adults?  And if they are, would I still enjoy them
     (Duane addict looking for fix...).
> 
>There are no books in that series that you've missed.  However, if
>you haven't read _So You Want to be a Wizard_, _Deep Wizardry_, and
>_High Wizardry_ (which came out in that gap) th
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan)
Subject: Re: Vinge on A Fire Upon the Deep
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:49:53 GMT

From article <1992Aug21.195439.8618@wri.com>, by novak@wri.com (John M. Novak):
	:
>He modifies physical laws to *prevent* the Singularity
	:

I haven't read AFUtD yet, but it occurs to me that maybe a more
interesting approach than the zones to avoid the Singularity and
achieve the same goal is to assume that relativistic communication
links (really, causality) results in non-linear dynamical behavior
which places fundamental limits on complexity. An example of this is
the inability to build reliable geographically-dispersed distributed
computing environments.  The ability to achieve the singularity depends
upon massive-scale distributed computing, which in turn depends on FTL
communication to overcome the chaotic limits to complexity.

Or maybe not. :-)  But it is interesting to think about fundamental
limits to complexity that may be "built-into" the laws of nature. (The
engineer in me, who firmly believes in the classical building-block
approach, balks at this. But similar arguments have been made in
criticisms of the software engineering effort required for the SDI.)

--
John Sloan              "Since I've given up hope,       +1 303 497 1243
NCAR/SCD                   I feel much better."      Fax +1 303 497 1137
Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA                           jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu
Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:37:07 GMT

In article <darknite.714173259@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>>Possible mild spoilers follow

>(Does it
>ruin the sense of wonder if I ask whether Alessan could have
>bound Alberico or Brandin to him in that fashion?)

He couldn't have:  neither Alberico nor Brandin were "bound to the Palm," by
cutting off two of their fingers.

The magic of the other kingdoms was different from that of the Palm.  Why,
and in what fashion, it was never really explained, but it was mentioned,
and the lack of a need of self-mutilation seems to confirm it.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard)
Subject: Re: seeking a Bujold story
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:49:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.200519.16095@athena.mit.edu> jen@athena.mit.edu (Jennifer Hawthorne) writes:
>Ditto. Double ditto.  Excellent space opera.  I heard here on the Net
>somewhere a while ago that she's back to working on another book in
>this universe after finishing an unconnect fantasy novel. Does anyone
>have any more news on when it's expected to be out?

Could this possibly be the hostage rescue mission referred to at the end
of Brothers in Arms and the Borders of Infinity framing
story? The references were specifi enough that I had the impression she
had already outlined something.

Laura


--

Address alias changed -- good addresses are now lhb4v@virginia.edu and
lhb6v@faraday.clas.virginia.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11229 rec.arts.sf.science:2559
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:36:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug16.023454.14687@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.231933.11904@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>1.  The richer you are, the more likely you are to have access to
>>contraceptives.  
>>2.  The rich need less redundancy in their families to be sure of
>>reaching a given target.
>>3.  The rich are more likely to be educated to have fewer children.
>>4.  If you're dirt poor you aren;t that much poorer with 6 kids than
>>with 2.  If you're rich you are much poorer.
>>None of these factors produce any kind of evolutionary pressure to
>>have fewer kids if you are rich.

>Sure they do.  Education and lack of poverty are survival traits.

Really?  In today's society the poorer you are the more likely you are
to have a lot of grandchildren.  Looks like the opposite.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein)
Subject: Re: New Varley!
Organization: mikejag (mike) is a private system in Vancouver, BC, Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.202946.13628@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s902113@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Luke Mewburn) writes:
>
>"IIII
>  II
>  II
> IIII n five years, the penis will be obsolete," said the salesman.
>
>
>(Quoth I, from my signed HC edition - one of the few here in
> Australia, thanx to a friend who manages Minotaur Book's SF
> section :-)

One of my fondest memories of Varley was at a reading of Steel Beach he gave
here in Vancouver about two years ago. It was at a writer's festival and there
were at least twenty high school classes in attendance, brought there by
teachers hoping to instill an interest in writing into the kids through SF.
Varley stood up to the podium in a Hawaiin shirt and army boots and read to
the audience, "In five years the penis will be obsolete". The audience broke
up in laughter. If that didn't instill an interest in Science Fiction in those
kids, nothing will.

>
>Actually, it gets a lot better.
>

It does!

pally hoffstein
vancouver, canada
-- 
           Sean, I'd say the best one came from Tupelo, Mississippi
       I'll tell you now that grown men cry and Irish girls are pretty
		        	The Proclaimers
 ***** Look for me, somewhere down the Crazy River - Robbie Roberstson *****
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: >>>>SEX<<<< and Tolkien
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:55:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.130918.3469@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
|> In article <15129@suns6.crosfield.co.uk>, jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford) writes:
|>> 
|>> (3) Sex isn't particularly essential to the plot.. Tolkein's stuff is good
|>> enough to sell without it..
|> 
|> 	3) is the best reason.  Tolkien wanted to create a mythological type of
|> realm.  When was the last time you read something like: "Thor took the mortal
|> woman in his arms and pumped her full of molten lava..."
 
 You must have been reading the watered-down versions of mythology. (-: Just
about every mythology I can think of - Egyptian, European, Indian, Oriental - 
features sex very prominently. And look at the Old Testament, for that matter.
The only mythologies I can think of which are relatively devoid of sex are the
Christian and Muslim ones. 
 
|> 	Except in Larry Niven's "Man of Steel: Woman of Kleenex" :).
 
 Well, isn't Superman just a mythic hero of 20th Century America? (-:
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Pro-Environment. Pro-Education. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice. 
     \_| Pro-Change. Pro-America. Pro-Clinton.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: gapdrr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Daniel R T Rothman)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:44:25 GMT

evolution IS catching up with us...  The upper echelons of the industrialized
societies have a non-replacement birth rate. The majority of population 
growth in first-world countries is coming from lower-income large families,
and many of these are relatively immune to economic pressures, because these
large families are subsidized by governments.

Recently released statistics show that 42.9% of children in Atlanta live
at or below poverty. This is entirely disproportionate to the numbers of
the population as a whole.

On the other hand, this disproportionate growth of subsidized populations
cannot continue beyond some equilibrium point. Eventually there will be
an inability or unwillingness of the prosperous to support the numerous.
From: perisic@masg1.epfl.ch (Igor Perisic)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Garden of Rama in Paperback
Keywords: Paperback reference ...
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:59:07 GMT
Organization: Math. Dept., Swiss Institute of Technology


	Someone a while ago asked for the reference of A.C. Clarke's & Lee's
{\it The Garden of Rama} so here it is:

		Bantam spectra, ISBN:  0-553-18093-2

Hope this helps .....	
		

				Igor

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: charless@sco.COM (charles stross)
Subject: Huge Warm Buttocks (was: Re: Tolkien's characters)
Organization: The Somewhat Contagious Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:02:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written,talk.bizarre


In article <26980029@hpspkla.spk.hp.com> mcjunkin@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Bart L. McJunkin) writes:
>In rec.arts.sf.written, yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>
>    "John threw Spot the ball, secretly hoping that Jane would run after Spot
>    and try to get the ball back, as John had a thing for Jane and loved to
>    see her huge warm buttocks wobbling in the wind."
>
>I found it hard to suspend my disbelief in this paragraph.
>Everyone knows that the windchill factor would cool the
>buttocks!  I wish authors would thoroughly investigate the
>scientific and engineering realities before setting pen to
>paper.  When I read escapist literature, I want it to be
>real!

Ah, but you mis-understood the subtle intricacies of the physics
involved in the process. Note that Jane had "huge warm buttocks". 
By invoking the square-cube law for the ratio of surface
area to volume, and approximating a buttock (singular) to a
spheroid (oblate or otherwise), it is trivially obvious that
the surface area across which heat loss occurs is proportionately
smaller in relation to the steatopygian volume for large buttocks 
than for small buttocks. The thermal capacity of the buttocks is quite
obviously a product of their mean specific heat capacity and their 
volume (ignoring blood perfusion effects). Therefore heat loss 
contingent upon the large thermal gradient across the steatopygian
surface-area will account for a smaller proportion of total heat
capacity per unit time in large buttocks than in small ones.

Indeed, huge warm buttocks are likely to stay warm longer than
skinny hot buttocks, even if the skin is a tad chilly at first.


-- 
This .sig file has been rescued by the Sigfile Liberation Front
From: Jools%Library%FIT@GNU.VUT.EDU.AU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: epic fantasy and dragons
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:56:18 GMT

Firstly, for a book about a dragon of undoubted breeding, charm and character, 
you can hardly go further than the R.A. MacAvoy stories Tea for the Black 
Dragon and The Twisting of the Rope. If there are any more stories in this 
vein, I would be delighted to hear. I can also recommend The Dragon and the 
George by (I think it was) Gordon Dickinson. Forgive me if the author is 
incorrect, but it has been a long time since I've reread this one. Piers 
Anthony's Flinx novels feature a rather amiable dragon from time to time.

My introduction to science fiction was through the work of Ray Bradbury, but a
whole new world opened up when I bought my first book.....Sos the Rope, Var the
Stick and Neq the Sword. A trilogy that I have lent to friends and recommended
many times. Peirs Anthony is still to my mind a great story teller. 
Some one mentioned Katherine Kerr for a good epic, I am currently reviewing A 
Time of Omens: a novel of the Westlands, and it is worth reading as are the 
books which precede it.

Jools
Victoria University of Technology
Library, Audio Visual
Footscray, Melbourne, Australia.
From: austin@nova.Eng.Sun.COM (Austin Yeats)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Keywords: Wolfe Maitz
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:59:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova

(pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca writes)

>Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
>contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
>accurate?

        How about the covers on Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun
        series (Shadow of the Torturer, Claw of the Conciliator, etc)?

        Great stories, great artwork by Don Maitz... and the covers
        depicted events/characters fairly well.

        I think the newer PB editions have different artwork, however.
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: >>>>SEX<<<< and Tolkien
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:26:41 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <RSHOLMES.92Aug17183952@rodan.syr.EDU> rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes) writes:
"As for Tolkien, how much sex was there in *anything* being published
"by mainstream publishers in the 1940s and 1950s? He & his publisher
"were products of their time. Even so, there's at least one rape and
"one case of incest in _The Silmarillion_ and/or _Unfinished Tales_.

..Neither of which, as far as I can remember, were published until
relatively recently? 1970s or 1980s?

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 x3868|   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (jc@cel.uucp) or jc@selune.demon.co.uk        |   \_|__
+-----(Work)---------------------------------(home)----------------+ \___/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Subject: Guy Gavriel Kay: Fionavar Tapestry
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:51:02 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I looked for Tapestry at my local bookstore, but didn't find it. Does
anybody know if it's available yet, or when it's coming out? And how does
this trilogy compare to _Tigana_?



-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lgs57@cas.org ()
Subject: Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:41:16 GMT

____________________________________________________________________________
Linda Siemsen                     lgs57@cas.org
All opinions expressed therein are solely mine and not that of my employer.
Current Book:  They Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation
Current CD: Also Sprach Zarathustra