HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: kashrut howls
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:23:56 GMT

warren@nysernet.ORG (Warren Burstein) writes:
> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:

> >... CMLOR ...
> 
> Now we conjugate acronyms?  I CMLOR, we COLOR, you CYLOR, he/she
> CHLOR, they CTLOR ...

I believe this is declension, not conjugation.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:30:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.192659.23673@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (
samuel.saal) sniffs:

>What about Chanukah, or Judaism in general, do you hate so much as to
>consider "vulgar."

Neither Judaism nor Hanuka are vulgar.  But some people are and what they
do is.

nm
From: dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:05:05 GMT
Reply-To: dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

During the last seven days  12  palestinians  have  been  shot  dead  by
Israeli  forces in Gaza and the West Bank.  This includes a ten year old
girl, Rana Abu Tyour, shot while she went to get milk in a curfew break.
She  bled  to  death  in  an  alley,  while  Israeli  soldiers with guns
prevented anyone from going to help her.

Can people not see that the violence of Hamas and similar  organisations
is the natural reaction of the Palestinians to the misery of their lives
under Israeli occupation?

Not a shred of evidence has been presented in open court  that  the  415
deportees  are  guilty of anything - not even of being members of Hamas.
The deportations are a crude reprisal, of the  same  type  as  when  the
Germans  deported whole French villages in response to each killing of a
German soldier by the resistance.  This type of collective punishment is
completely illegal, and profoundly repulsive to international opinion.

The deportations will simply fuel further violence.  I can tell  you  my
reaction  to the deportations - I wanted to go out and punch the nearest
Israeli.  And I am a Jew.  What effect do you think it will have on  the
Palestinians?

Israel has to be told that the deportations are absolutely unacceptable,
and must be reversed.

David Turner
(A British Jew who does NOT support Israel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:11:59 GMT

Jewish pop stars?

How About:


	Paul Simon
	Art Garfunkel
	Billy Joel

Can we count:
	Lou Levy (Jazz Pianist)
	Vladimir Horowitz
	Itzchack Perlman

	(and a few hundred others..)

---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: deportation
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.220654.3016@eng.umd.edu> ziad@eng.umd.edu (Ziad K. Cheiban) writes:

# In article <1992Dec27.044855.11537@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
 
# >>>... To which the families of the vast majority were recent immigrants
# >>>from surrounding Arab lands, enticed by the economic rejuvenation
# >>>brought on the the Zionist influx they love to rail against.

# [...]

# >Before you misinterpreted (deliberately?) what I wrote, we were
# >discussing the fact that most of the Arabs who now call themselves
#                ~~~~~~     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
# >Palestinians (a term, incidentally, that was used to refer to Jews,
# >not Arabs, before the Arabs expropriated it for propaganda purposes
# >after the reestablishment of Israel in 1948) originally came to 
# >Palestine attracted by the rejuvenation that occurred with the Zionist
# >influx beginning about a century ago.
#                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

# [...]
 
# Would you mind giving us sources for the above lies.

	Would you mind telling us why you would want sources for lies?  It
really does not matter anyways though since you were referring to lies
you probably meant to reply to another article.  There are obviously
no lies here.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: deportations
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:40:47 GMT

dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
>
>This draws our attention once again  to  the  unsolved  problem  of  the
>ongoing Israeli occupation of the territories seized in the war of 1967,
>which Israel continues to hold in defiance of both international law and
>specific United Nations Resolutions.

COMPLETELY FALSE.  RESOLUTION 242 DID NOT CALL UPON ISRAEL TO WITHDRAW
FROM ALL TERRITORIES CAPTURED IN JUNE 1967.

There is disagreement over what Resolution 242's statement of
principles means.  Arabs argue that Israel must withdraw from ALL
territories.  Israel and the United States disagree, pointing to the
fact that the Security Council voted on the ENGLISH text of the
resolution which deliberately avoided the use of the words ALL of THE.
Similarly, the Council did not use the French text so that it could
avoid using the words LES or DES.

The American ambassador who led the delegation to the UN in '67,
Arthur Goldberg wrote: 

  "The resolution speaks of withdrawal from occupied territories
without defining the extent of the withdrawal.  And the notable
presence of the words "secure and recognized boundaries" by
implication, contemplates that the parties could make territorial
adjustments in their peace settlement encompassing less than a
complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the occupied territories,
inasmuch as Israel's prior frontiers had proved to be notably
insecure."

But there was to be no negotiation with the Arab states as the Arab
Leaders declared in Khartoum in August 1967: 

  "Kings and presidents have agreed to unified efforts at
international and diplomatic levels to eliminate the consequences of
aggression and to assure the withdrawal of the aggressor forces of
Israel from Arab lands, but within the limits to which Arab states are
committed: NOT PEACE WITH ISRAEL, NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH ISRAEL, NO
RECOGNITION OF ISRAEL."



There you have it.  25 years ago they could have had it all back, with
simple negotiations.  But now, fuck, it's debateable.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: The difference between a chasid and a misnagid
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date: 25 Dec 92 05:11:01 GMT

nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:
Miller assumes he knows what sources I take seriously.
He does not.
The Brody herem is inapplicable.
As for Rav Shach, it isn't WHO says it  but  WHAT is said. Kindly Norman
step outbehind the historical comments of others and present the CASE.
Sources please. I will argue with you --- don't worry about that.

>In article <isaac.724976007@etrog> isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin) wr
>ites:

>>I believe that views such as Miller's which use the word `heresy' without
>>any substantive support are dangerous, divisive and to be viewed with
>>contempt.
>>
>>If Miller wishes to argue the point (and I am not a Chosid), let him begin
>>with some sources. I am ready.

>Well, it was a slow Monday and I thought I'd try to stir things up.
>If Isaac Balbin is ready, I invite him to argue first against the
>Brody herem of 1772(?) and second against the recent declaration by none
>other than Rav Shacht that Habad is heretical (kofar b'ikor).

>Those are the kind of sources that he takes seriously.  There are others
>that I take seriously and which I will be ready to discuss as things move
>along.

>Norman Miller


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jls@mbunix.mitre.org (Segal)
Subject: Chanuka sa-mei-ach?
Organization: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, Ma.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:10:13 GMT

Assuming that sa-mei-ach is being used as a stative verb, we note that
Chanuka is a feminine noun!!

Chanuka Sameiach can't be correct!! -- maybe se-mei-cha!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Rita (The Israeli singer)
From: David Silberstein <DASBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 21 Dec 1992 14:02:49 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Some years before I left Israel, I was a big fan of Rita (she did not use
her last name, but I belive her maiden name was Farouz), and her husband/
producer Rami Kleinstein. I know that by the time I left (mid-1989), Rita
had produced 2 albums (_Rita_ and _Days of Innocence_), and Rami had
produced 1 (_The Day of the Bomb_). My question is, has Rita or Rami
come out with any other albums since then? Are they still making music
(when I left, Rita had just made a movie (and had already starred in the
Israeli production of _My Fair Lady_)? Any help as to where to find a discograp
hy would be appreciated.            Thanks much -- Todah Rabah.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (S. H. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Mezuzah question
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 17:59:40 GMT

frank2@odie.ee.wits.ac.za writes:
: Did you hear the one about the guy who was installing all the fittings for a 
: new block of flats across the road from the Shul? 
: 
: He went to the local mezuzah shop and discovered that they were sold out. 
: Next he tried the general Judaica store, only to find that they too had no 
: mezuzot in stock. After walking all over town, the man happened upon a small 
: shop in the middle of Chinatown, with hundreds of mezuzot in the window. He 
: walked in and asked in his thick Yiddish accent for 120.
: "I'm sorry sir," said the shopowner, "but we don't serve Jews."

Does everybody else not get this?  Or is this ZA humor?
--Shimon
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24380 soc.culture.arabic:6146 talk.politics.mideast:24483
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:42:49 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec30223711@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>, eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
> In article <1992Dec30.193727.136@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>   There's only one tiny problem: there AREN'T any Jewish terrorists who
>>   belong to the  Israeli Medical Association. That's more than I can say for Arab
>>   doctors who belong to HAMAS. The equation is quite simple:
>>
>>   1) Hamas is a terrorist organization
>>   2) Dr. X is a member of Hamas
>>   3) Ergo: Dr. X is a terrorist
> 
> Your logic is faulty.  Consider the following case:
> 
> 1) The American Medical Association approves of the use of abortion.
> 2)  Dr. Y is a member of the AMA.
> 3)  Ergo: Dr. Y approves of abortions.
> 
> Wrong.  That is an argument of guilt by association.  It has two
> fundamental flaws.  The first is that it assumes that membership in an
> organization implies approval of everything that organization does.
> The second is that approval of a crime implies culpability in that
> crime.


Guilt by association ?  Let's see:

"On April 26, 1945 the American Joint Chiefs of Staff sent a directive to the
U.S. commander subjecting the following ten groups to automatic arrest:

1. Party officials down to Ortsgruppenleiter;
2. Gestapo and SD;
3. Waffen-SS down to the lowest non-commissioned rank (USchaf.);
4. General Staff officers;
5. Police officers down to Oberleutnant;
6. SA to lowest commissioned rank (Stuf.);
7. Ministers and leading civil servants as well as territorial officials down to
   Burgermeister in the Reich and civil and military town commanders in
   occupied territories;
8. Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in industry and commerce;
9. Judges and prosecutors of special courts;
10.Allied traitors"

[From: J.C.S. Directive 1067/6 to Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Forces of
Occupation, April 26, 1945, in report of U.S. Military Governor,
DENAZIFICATION, 1948, pp. 14-16]

For your information, VOLUNTARY MEMBERSHIP ALONE made one liable to criminal
prosecution.  Please note # 8: "Nazi sympathizers".         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What  were you saying about  "guilt by association" ???

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL



> 
> I wonder why you (and apparently the Israeli government) uses the
> guilt by association argument so freely when it is so obviously
> flawed?
> 
>> [rest of posting deleted, as false logic leads to false conclusions]
> 
> =Jim
> --
> =Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Summary: You guessed wrong
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:05:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.230702.10838@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> Marc Colten says Chabad got permission to put up a Menorah, and
> now the KKK wants to put up a cross.
> 
> My guess is that they'll lose. The menorah commemorates a
> historical event. It's kinda like putting up a statue of,
> say, Jose Marti in a public park in a Hispanic neighborhood.
> No problem.
> 
> The cross is a religious symbol. Moreover, though atheistic historians
> (those historians who are atheistic in their professional lives) agree
> that the Maccabee/Greek thing happened, they don't have any evidence
> beyond the assertions of later Christians that the Crucifixion of
> Jesus of Nazareth happened, or even that such a person was
> divine. Christmas is a matter of faith and belief; Chanukah is
> a matter of historical observance. The two are quite different.
> Thus a Menorah or tree, but no creche or cross.
> 

Oh Brother!  Not only did you guess wrong but you've totally
misunderstood the thinking of Christians.  To them the crucifixion
is MORE of a historical fact than Chanukah - after all the NT
tells them so. 

As for your wrong guess - this is excerpted in part from the New
York Times (Tuesday).

       KLAN'S CHRISTMAS CROSS IS QUICKLY TORN DOWN

Cincinnati, Dec. 21 (AP) - Hours after the Ku Klux Klan put up an
eight foot tall cross today in a downtown square near a menorah, a
man pulled it down, despite police barricades.

Four or five members of the Klan put up the cross about 6:20 am,`
and left ...  The Klansmen had a city permit and a detachment of
police officers stood by to protect them; ...

Officer Nichols said no protestors were nearby when the wooden
cross was erected, but about an hour later a man tried to remove
the cross and was arrested on a charge of disorderly conduct.
Then, later in the morning, nother man got beyond the barricade
and pulled down the cross.

Police officials identified the man as David Miller, 44, of suburban
Loveland.  He was arrested, charged with disorderly conduct and
released.

....

Chief Snowden said the Klan could erect another cross, but there 
wasno indication that the group would do so.

"They're more than welcome to make arrangements with us to put
up another cross," he said.  "They do have a permit ..."

The Klan won a city permit to erect the cross on Fountain Square
by using the same religious-freedom argument that a Jewish
group had used to get permission to display the 18 foot menorah ...

***** end of excerption *****


Now, what is the public going to remember - that the Klan put the
cross up, or (and I'm guessing here) that a Jew tore it down?



marc colten

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:44:08 GMT

you have it right... "Garbage" it is
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cs922177@ariel.yorku.ca (DANIEL T FARKAS)
Subject: Any Mercaz HaTorah alumni out there?
Keywords: mercaz 
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:07:36 GMT


Just wondering if there are any other former mercaz guys suscribed to
this newsgroup.  (That's mercaz hatorah, in Talpiot, Jerusalem)  If
you're out there, drop me a line.  I'd be interested to know where other
mercaz guys have ended up.
                                                       Happy Chanukah,

                                                            Danny

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:13:08 GMT

dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
>
>1) I am a British Jew.  My homeland is Britain.  The homeland of Swedish
>Jews  is Sweden, and so on.  Exactly the same as for British and Swedish
>Baptists, or Catholics.  Judaism is a religion, not a nationality.  Most

Judaism is a Culture with religion being a part of it.  Jews are a People.
There are non-religious jews, and religious jews.

>Jews  live  in  the  diaspora,  and show no signs of moving - nor should
>they.  Their homeland is the country they are living in.

Study history.  Jews have rarely been allowed to stay in one country for
a few hundred years.  I'd like to see you in Britain during the
Crusades.

I am an American, but I am a Jew first.  Israel is my home first.


>2) Unfortunately what you call Eretz Yisreal has almost exactly the same
>boundaries  as  historic  Palestine.   The  Palestinians lived in it for
>thirteen centuries, without doing Jews or anyone else any harm,  and  it
>is  their homeland.  They have no other homeland.  You are a settler - a
>colonist - in another people's land.

The Jews have lived in Palestine continuously for the last 3500 years.
Even at the time of their lowest population they were always greater
than 10% of the population.  A population that contantly changed with
the invader of the week.  So we are not settlers or colonists.
Further 600,000 jews from the surrounding arab countries moved to
Israel.  These people have never been far from Israel and arabic
culture.  If the arabs cannot claim that ISrael is just a bunch of
invading european jews.  And if they feel it is arab land, it is just
as much those arabic jews land.  Certainly it should be obvious to the
most radical jew-hater that Jews have a claim to part of Palestine.


>David Turner
>(A British Jew who does not support Israel)

Singling out Israel among all the nations, putting down Israel more
aggressively than putting down any other nation, decrying a murder in
Israel any more than a murder in any other country -- is a sure sign
of an anti-semetic person, or a person who is ashamed of his judaism,
invariably due to lack of knowledge of judaism.

carasso
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Eggcreams and Fox's U-BET syrup
Date: 25 Dec 92 09:31:39 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem


And *now* something of major importance ! :-)
(Dedicated to Sam Saal)

There was a huge downpour on Thursday in Jerusalem and to escape the rain, I
ran in to a used bookstore. I stumbled across THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL SUPPLY
CATALOGUE 2. I finally read the *definitive* story on egg creams under the
title: FOX'S U-BET (page 101). And I quote:

"The New York eggcream, which may assume its place alongside the Theory of
Relativity as one of the ingenious contributions made to American culture by
immigrant twentieth-century European Jews, is a sweet mystery indeed.  A
soda-fountain drink that originated in the 1920's, the eggcream contains
neither egg nor cream, but is delicious beyond either. Its secret ingredient is
Fox's U-Bet Chocolate Syrup.

(some stuff deleted)

Fox's dates back to 1925, soon after Herman Fox returned from Texas  oilfields
[where the phrase 'You bet!' was current among those men who staked their
fortunes on holes in the ground] to find his black gold waiting for him in
Brooklyn".

Of course, we *still* don't know who concocted the recipe for eggcreams but at
least we now know  that it dated from 1925.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cimet@anl433.uucp (Arieh Cimet)
Subject: Re: Latkes (was Re: Ascii Chanukah symbols?)
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:36:06 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


In Mexico we eat latkes with sugar too. We also eat sufganiot
(strawberry jelly doughnuts sprinkled with sugar). We also use mexican
dreidls with six sides called "pirinolas" (used for a popular game)
instead of the traditional four-sided one.

Note that applesauce doesn't exist there and sour cream is for tacos!.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
I. Arieh Cimet                              e-mail:  cimet@comm.mot.com
Motorola Shared Systems Infrastructure      phone:   (708) 576-4565
1303 E. Algonquin Road                      fax:     (708) 576-6150
Tower Annex / 2nd Floor
Schaumburg, IL 60196
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: (Jewish) Kabbalistic Meditation ?
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:58:00 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec26.231413.1001@dragon.com> cms@dragon.com (Spawn of a
Jewish Carpenter (Cindy Smith)) writes:

[reams about her superficial, Christian-influenced perspective on
Kabbalah deleted.]

Cindy (our Episcopalian friend) tries hard and I feel she does not
intend to mislead, but in the end she does.  She mixes truth with
semi-truths and some even less savory things.  If you want to learn
about Kabbalah, learn from traditionally accepted Jewish sources
exclusively.  Avoid secondary sources until you can qualify them based
on intimate personal knowledge of the primary sources.  Unless you want
to be mislead, definitely stay away from those who warped Kabbalah away
from normative Judaism, including the Christians and lots of "New Agers"
with Christian (and other, including pagan/neopagan) perspectives.  That
includes the HaLevi fellow Cindy mentioned -- his texts are rife with
Christian influences.

Believe it or not, a good place for the average person to start (aside
from Rav Kaplan's books -- in order of relevance -- "Innerspace,"
"Jewish Meditation," "Meditation and Kabbalah," "Meditation and the
Bible") is with the Tanya, the Lubavitch group's favorite text.  Contact
your local Lubavitch Chabad House for details about classes.  (Note that
I am not a member of any chassidic sect nor do I have especially warm
feelings about Lubavitch -- they just have an accessible text that is
traditionally correct and offer study classes in many locations around
the world.)

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish