HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu ("John E. Davis")
Subject: Re: EMACS as default mail editor?
Reply-To: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu  (John E. Davis)
Organization: "Dept. of Physics, The Ohio State University"
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:37:33 GMT

In article <9211072250.AA13539@hermann.barra.COM> louis@BARRA.COM (Louis
Dunne) writes: 

     BUT, in reality most editors you will use will have been written using
     TPU, your version of EMACS included. Usually you will have (or you can
     [...]     
     So, the bottom line is:
     1) If you don't mind the overhead, use the MAIL$EDIT
        approach.

Perhaps his version of EMACS is written in TPU but I find it hard to believe
since it would hardly be EMACS.

JED uses the MAIL$EDIT approach.  However, the editor is not spawned in the
command file--- rather the command file attaches itself to JED setting a
logical to instruct JED to reattach back to the command procedure rather than
the process which called it.        
     
--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: crobw@CUPID.CURTIN.EDU.AU
Subject: VUE$ callbacks
Reply-To: crobw@CUPID.CURTIN.EDU.AU
Organization: Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:10:10 GMT

Does anybody know where to find the documentation on the Fileview call back
routines. These are the things which appear in .COM files called by Fileview.

Typical sorts of calls (from VUE$DECTERM.COM):

        $ vue$suppress_output_popup
        $!
        $! See if we should skip the dialog box
        $!
        $    vue$get_symbol vue$show_hidden_dialogs
        $    vue$read show_hidden_dialogs
        $
        $    if show_hidden_dialogs then goto select_qualifiers
        $       vue$get_qualifiers
        $       goto do_decterm
        $
        $select_qualifiers:
        $       vue$popup_qualifiers
        $
        $do_decterm:
        $
        $ vue$read vue$command


I recall seeing printed documentation somewhere, but can't find it. So far no
luck on the CDroms either.
 /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Rob Wright                | Wright_RJ@cupid.curtin.edu.au                   |
| Curtin University         | R.Wright@icarus.curtin.edu.au                   |
| Perth, Western Australia  | psi%050529452300070:Wright_RJ                   |
| Voice:+61 9 351 7385      | Wright_RJ%cc.curtin.edu.au@cunyvm.bitnet        |
| FAX:     09-351-2673      | uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!Wright_RJ     |
 \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/

 /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Rob Wright                | Wright_RJ@cupid.curtin.edu.au                   |
| Curtin University         | R.Wright@icarus.curtin.edu.au                   |
| Perth, Western Australia  | psi%050529452300070:Wright_RJ                   |
| Voice:+61 9 351 7385      | Wright_RJ%cc.curtin.edu.au@cunyvm.bitnet        |
| FAX:     09-351-2673      | uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!Wright_RJ     |
 \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: simon@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG (Alan Simon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Problem with System Boot
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:31:40 GMT
Organization: The Internet

My system crashed last night for some unknown reason.  When I attempted to
bring it back up, I ran into problems.  The system made it to SYSTARTUP_V5.COM
without any problems.  It started DECnet, did several DEFINEs, and ran
LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM.  When it tried to start LAT, after creating and modifying a
number of ports, I got the following error:

	%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image LATCP
        -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LATCP.EXE;
	-RMS-E-ACC, ACP file access failed
	-SYSTEM-F-EXBYTLM, exceeded byte count quota

Most of the rest of SYSTARTUP_V5.COM bombed.  Most of the errors were the same
as above, with various other error messages because certain things did not run
properly (such as the disks not being mounted).  In the system account, I 
bumped up BYTLM from 32768 to 65536 and PBYTLM from 1024 to 4096, and 
re-booted.  No change.  At that point, I logged into the system account, and 
ran each of the commands in SYSTARTUP_V5.COM manually.  Everything worked like 
a charm!  What am I missing, and I how can I fix this before the next reboot?

This is a VAX 6320 with 128MB of memory running VMS 5.4-3.  The system was 
re-booted just after the time change with no problems.

Thanks for your help.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Simon                                      simon@hslc.org  
Associate Director                              simon@shrsys.hslc.org
Health Sciences Libraries Consortium            VOICE: (215) 222-1532  
3600 Market Street, Suite 550                     FAX: (215) 222-0416
Philadelphia, PA  19104
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Fixing SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL error
Date: 14 Nov 92 01:33:32 GMT
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA


Please help us!!  We're getting this error message and we're not sure
what to do.  Please email replies to abeneschan@irvine.com.  

Our situation:  We have a Vaxstation 4000 model 60, VMS version V5.5,
1 gigabyte SCSI drive.  There are 49112 files on our system, and our
INDEXF.SYS file is 49190 blocks.  (Each header in INDEXF.SYS is 1
block, so it's not surprising that these figures are close.)  If we
say SHOW DEVICE/FULL, it says the maximum number of files is about
257000.  

Our problem is that we can't create any new files on the system.  If
we try to use the CREATE command to create a new file, we get this
error message:

%DCL-E-OPENOUT, error opening DKA200:[VM.INTEL.74.JUNK]X313.DAT; as output
-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed
-SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full

(Actually, at the time the above numbers were computed, some files
have already been deleted from our system since the error first
occurred.)

We think the problem is that the system is trying to enlarge the
INDEXF.SYS file and can't.

Thank you in advance for your help.

-- 
Adam Beneschan
Irvine Compiler Corporation
email: abeneschan@irvine.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: /SECRECY and /INTEGRITY in MAIL
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:58:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd2.1992Nov10.185815.19030
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <01GQZHO60H7K001E1V@orbsen.ucg.ie>,
ELEHUMBORG@ORBSEN.UCG.IE (It's more fun to compute) asks what the /SECRECY
and /INTEGRITY qualifiers to various commands in VMS MAIL do.

They are latent hooks for nondiscretionary access control support in VMS.
There are other such hooks, such as the UPGRADE and DOWNGRADE privileges,
for supporting a lattice model of nondiscretionary security and integrity.
I think these things actually come into play in the Secure VMS (SEVMS)
product, but I'm not sure.

--PSW
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.sysmgt
From: hudson@ug.cs.dal.ca (Bruce Hudson)
Subject: Re: HELP: how to stop and prevent break in?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:32:36 GMT

In article <69356@cup.portal.com> Chris_F_Chiesa@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>>	OWNER=[my,WHO] 
>>
>>All the files and directories under that account have two owners  [...]
>
>I believe you are merely seeing the file's ownership information expressed
>as a Group and Member -- [GROUP,MEMBER] -- rather than as an Identifier --
>[IDENT] .  And I further believe that this is caused by the absence of an
>Identifier for the file's owner, in the system UAF.
>
>You need to determine which user is "user 'WHO' in group 'my'," and if he
>is legitimate and entitled to ownership of the files, simply add the proper
>identifier for him -- often, this has the same appearance as his username --
>to the UAF using AUTHORIZE ADD/IDENT /USER=username .

    You are correct that this is a [group,member] UIC but your reason
is incorrect. If there is a symbolic name for the member, there must
be an identifier for the owner's UIC. Rather, VMS normally displays
the ownership in this mode if an identifier for the group exists. That
is an identifer with the value [group#, 17777]. The AUTHORIZE program
will try to create such an identifer if the ACCOUNT field has a value.

    You can get rid of the group, displaying just [WHO] instead of
[my,WHO] by deleteing the identifier my. If it really is in lower case
be sure to put it in quotes to prevent the parse routines from turning
it into upper case. In AUTHORIZE,

	SHOW/ID "my"
	REMOVE/ID "my"

You should be aware that if you ever add a user with the account field
set, AUTHORIZE will recreate the identifier.

-- 
Bruce A. Hudson			| HUDSON@AC.DAL.CA
UCIS, Facilities and Operations	| HUDSON@DALAC	(Bitnet)
Dalhousie University		| HUDSON@DALCS	(UUCP)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada	|
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: VAX 4000/200 ethernet problems
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:15:24 GMT

In article <1dml3nINNo83@gap.caltech.edu>, cld@yankee.caltech.edu (Cheryl L. Southard) writes...
>Anyhow, the VAX 4000/200 CPU board has an onboard ethernet port, EZA0.
>I've been trying to get this port working, but haven't been getting
>anywhere.  The old DEQNA board still works, but is rumored to be much
>slower than the EZA0 channel.

From the description, it sounds like the Ethernet controller is unable to
transmit correctly.  I'd doublecheck the transceiver, the drop cable
and don't forget the internal cabling.

Do other systems on the net see this system?

I'm not explicitly familiar with the 4000/200, does it have any thinwire
circuitry built in?  I doubt it, but if so, be sure the Thick/thin switch
is in the proper position.

-Mike
Xref: sparky comp.os.vms:17519 comp.windows.x:18755
From: robert@triton.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Robert Angelino)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.windows.x
Subject: Enable UNIX X clients to display in DecWindows...
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:21:15 GMT
Reply-To: robert@triton.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena CA

I'm trying to run an X-client on a UNIX box and display the window
on a VXT2000 running DecWindows.  How do I enable DecWindows
to accept the client.  I'd like to do something like 

xhost +unix.machine

on the DCL command line in VMS.  I know VMS has its own command, I haven't
been able to find it.

thanks

-- 
    -     ------       -                              Robert Angelino
   | |   | ----  \    | |                             ms 301-270
   | |   | |   \ |    | |                             4800 Oak Grove Drive
   | |   | | --  |    | |                             Pasadena, CA 91109
---| |   | | \__/     | |___                          robert@puente.jpl.nasa.gov
\____|et |_|ropulsion |_____\aboratory                (818) 354-1448
From: dwight@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu (Dwight D. Moore)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Allocated drive problem
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:53:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.1992Nov9.165320.15641
Reply-To: dwight@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu
Organization: Geosciences Computing Network, Univ. of Oklahoma
Originator: usenet@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu

In article <6NOV199211284271@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu>, sysop@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu (Shawn A. Clifford)
writes:

|>Have you tried DISMOUNT/ABORT?  I get the same situation all the time because
|>I will run BACKUP from a child process or batch.  DISMOUNT/ABORT drops the
|>TK50 for me.
|>
|>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>Shawn A. Clifford, System Manager | Internet: sysop@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu


Yes, we did. That is why we got the patch...hint, hint... :0)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwight D. Moore
Geosciences Computing Network
University of Oklahoma

dwight@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu (129.15.40.10)
These opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of OU or the GCN.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: zeus@vxcrna.cern.ch
Subject: Re: VAX/VMS extensions conference
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 11:25:56 GMT

In article <921105094129.d7be@menvax.restena.lu>, GLOESENER@MENVAX.RESTENA.LU writes:
> 
> Hello world,
> 
> Is theire a known address where to mail proposals for future extensions for
> VMS ? In this context it might be possible to launch a discussion about such
> extensions in this list if theire are people willing to participate in such
> a discussion.

If DEC are listening, what I would like to see is a replacement for DCL.

Something that combines the functionality of REXX and the proposed object
oriented interface for WNT would be nice.

Oh yes and I want a subset of it to run on the OSF/1 machines and ULTRIX.
They don't seem to have caught on to the idea of a command line interface
for UNIX yet (ObUI). I occasionaly think of reverse engineering the DCL
tables to produce somthing for the ULTRIX boxes we let the users have (at
this site we are sadists, we give the users UNIX and MVS-NEWLIB (titter)
and keep the VMS machines for ourselves, it going to be fun when the alpha
arives and we won't let them use 'em). But why bother, the UNIX shell is
good, right it must be, look at how long it's been arround, same for FORTRAN
and COBOL, nobody could ever do better than 1960s technology built on a
spare PDP-8 by a grad student at 4am one morning after a hard game of
wumpus!

The main extension to VMS that I would like to see is threads... oh hang on
it's got them already...

Actualy there is a major reason why I would like to take a SCSI (say) disk
and dual host it from both a UNIX and a VMS box. Unfortch. would have to run
the UNIX file system (yetch). Any progress on that yet? (The disk in question
being 500 Gb so you have to twiddle things a bit for the limits of the file
systems... ho hum.) At the mo we are using an IBM 9000 as a big intelligent disk
controller.


Phill Hallam-Baker

Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: rance@vivian.enet.dec.com (Stuart Rance)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Help with VMS locks
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:49:39 GMT
Reply-To: rance@vivian.enet.dec.com (Stuart Rance)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


 > 	Does anyone know of a/have a better way of tracking system locks.


 >  Anal/sys
 >  SDA> sho lock

 >  can be extremely tedious when searching for a particular lock owned by an
 >  unknown process, where only the lockname is known.

 >  and when you do find it, analysing it is a pain.

Take out your own lock.

	mode:				NL
	resource name:			Same as lock of interest
	access mode:	 	 	 "    "   "   "    "
	parent lock resource name: 	 "    "   "   "    "
	flags:				LCK$M_EXPEDITE

Then use the $GETLKI system service to get any information you want about 
other locks on the resource.


--
 ***************************************************
 * Stuart Rance       rance@vivian.enet.dec.com    *
 *                    stuart.rance@hhl.mts.dec.com *
 ***************************************************
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: panic : memory corrupted ...
Date: 10 Nov 1992 07:22:36 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <83301@ut-emx.uucp>, pso@phobos.as.utexas.edu (P Samuel Odoms) writes:
>In the past two nights, we have gotten the message
>
>	Panic : memory corrupted in process ...
>
>or something very close to that.

That's a unix error message.  What are you running on your machine that thinks
it's the unix kernel?

Alternatively, instead of giving us your guess about the error message, you
might consider giving us the EXACT error message so we'd have a fighting chance
of helping you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: system@NIUHEP.PHYS.NIU.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Q: c-kermit installation com files?
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:07:02 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hi,
    I just brought over c kermit 5a (185) from kermit.columbia.edu
and found a couple of references to using CKVMSI.COM and CKVKIT.COM for
installing it, but I could not find such anywhere on Kermit.columbia.edu
(this doesn't mean it isn't there...but I did try very hard) 
any suggestions?  the docs say that Terry Kennedy  created those com files.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Robert
 
system%niu.hepnet@lbl          BITNET
system@phys.niu.edu            INTERNET
NIU::SYSTEM                    HEPNET
From: Dave@usppc.abb.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Gnu C compiler type safe linking
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:44:52 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Thanks, Frank and all of the others who have responded to my
type safe linking question.  The /NAMES=UPPER switch works fine
with GCC 1.40 as obtained from prep.ai.mit.edu.  The manual
we are using with it came off the Sun User Group CDROM.  The
GNU things on the SUG CDROM don't always include the VMSisms and
associated manuals.  After all, they don't do much good on a
Sun-4 running SunOS.

Regards,
Dave Hamby
From: tihor@acf3.NYU.EDU (Stephen Tihor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: NO MORE HAIR TO LOOSE - HELP!
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:32:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

Sounds like time to apply corrective pressure.  If your state doesnot
suspport the "He needed killing" defense perhaps giving DEc a UNSATISFACTORY on 
the next fields service//////////////////customer service evaluation form
will do it.  If you do not get those annually ask for your field guys boss's
boss and start working up.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: mahan@TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: X11R5 or X11R4
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:21:44 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

In article <9211021948.AA14853@eunice.ssc.wisc.edu> you write:
#
#Does anyone know where I can get X11R5 or X11R4 for vms off the net?
#Thanks,
#

Both the X11R4 and X11R5 releases are available from export.lcs.mit.edu. How-
ever, be warned that this code is design to be built for Unix systems and not
VMS.  You can if you want to take the time port it to VMS yourself.  You will
need access to a TCP/IP socket library under VMS that contains the select()
call.

However, Digital provides the X11R4 implementation via DECwindows/Motif and
supports X11R5 under its OpenVMS AXP release.

If on the other hand, all you want is access to some of the Clients available
under X11, then you can 1) Obtain the X11R4 Clients and Demos from the Decus
library or 2) If you load DECwindows/Motif 1.1 take a look at the [.UTILS]
directory under DECW$EXAMPLES.

--
Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long
From: tihor@acf3.NYU.EDU (Stephen Tihor)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: CDrom Drives
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:42:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

The INFOserver as a disk block server should be viable for quite a while.
hanging individual SCSI disks off it may not be.  But give me cheap massive
SCSI RW disks and I will just create partitions and copy 1 CD to 1 partition on
it and beable to use all the old disk drive access technology software
anyhow.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.sysmgt
From: bern@Uni-Trier.DE (Jochen Bern)
Subject: Re: HELP: how to stop and prevent break in?
Originator: bern@kleopatra
Organization: Theor. CS, FB IV / CS, Univ. of Trier, Germany (Internet TI.Uni-Trier.DE)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:06:48 GMT

In <1ds5eqINN185@merak.usc.edu> ttytst@merak.usc.edu (Guess what) writes:
>We got very strange things happened on one account where we found the
>owner of files are not only the owner of the account but also another one.  
>	OWNER=[my,WHO] 
>All the files and directories under that account have two owners and we are
>sure that the other one is illegal. What we need to know right now is how
>to prevent this kind of things happened again and how to remove the illegal
>one from the ownership without SYSTEM ADMINSTATROR's Privilage.  Thanks in
>advance.

There is no such Thing as two-Owner-Files in VMS. I suppose you did a
DIR /OWNER to obtain the cited Output, right? Then what you observe is
DCL reporting that the File belongs to a named User (WHO) which is a
Member of a named Group (my). Example given, I have an Account BERN
on a Machine where I'm "just another User", short "CIP". They've put
me in a Group CIP, and everytime I do a DIR /OWNER, I see:

	PRIVATE.DIR;1        [CIP,BERN]

etc.. If you want a Proof, do a HELP SET FILE /OWNER. It says "...sets
*THE* Owner UIC of the File...". If you want harder Proofs, look into
the DCL Concepts Manual; BookReader doesn't work in this Moment, so I
couldn't look it up myself.

Talking about File Protection, the one and only Command to read the
File's security-related Settings is DIR /SECURITY. Currently, it's
equal to DIR /ACL /OWNER /PROTECTION, but I assume that DEC will upgrade
/SECURITY whenever new Items arise. If you're REALLY concerned about
File Protection, I've got a "check all them Files"-Procedure ready;
EMail me if you want to try it out. Greetings,
								J. Bern
-- 
 /  \  I hate NN rejecting .sigs >4 lines. Even though *I* set up this one. /\
/ J. \ EMail: bern@[TI.]Uni-Trier.DE / ham: DD0KZ  / More Infos on me from /  \
\Bern/ X.400 Mail: S=BERN;P=Uni-Trier;A=dbp;C=de  /   X.400 Directory, see \  /
 \  /  Zurmaiener Str. 98-100, D-W-5500 Trier    /     X.29 # 45050230303.  \/
From: klovatt@klnet.UUCP (Keith Lovatt)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Filtering LAVc traffic using a LAN Bridge 150?
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:08:41 GMT
Organization: Lugroid Enterprises
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com wrote:
: In article <18881.2af13146@ecs.umass.edu>, jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu writes...
: >I'd like to enable our several LAN Bridge 150s to filter out
: >LAVc traffic.  I know that I'll need to filter out the
: >multicast hello addresses (AB-00-04-01-nn-nn) where nn-nn is
: >the swapped value of 256+cluster ID.  
: > 
: >Should I also filter out the packets of the form AA-00-04-00-xx-yy
: >(decnet?)?  What do packets carrying disk traffic &etc. look like?
: 
: Disable the (AB-00-04-01-nn-nn) addresses.  The bridges will learn which
: side of them the various nodes are on quickly and won't pass any non-multicast
: frames if both nodes are on the same side, so if all nodes in a cluster on one
: side of the bridge no cluster traffic will cross.
: 
: -Mike

Another thing you could do is filter out VAXcluster packet type 6007. Cuts
out a lot of traffic and it's quite simple.

Keith.
-- 
Keith Lovatt                 	|	Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
r-node.gts.org!klnet!klovatt	|	Phone: +1 416 293 0292
doe.utoronto.ca!klnet!klovatt	|    "You can never find a Lugroid
(A Kiwi in Canada)		|	when you really need one"