HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaf@nynexst.com (John Frieman)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:05:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.222508.2053@ll.mit.edu> cogen@ll.mit.edu (David Cogen) writes:
>
>Like HELL! The coast guard policies have been directly hostile to the
>recreational boater. Examples:
>
>1) No longer provide assistance to boaters in distress, except in cases of
>imminent life danger. Instead they refer you to a towing or salvage company
>for which they probably receive a kickback.
>
This policy is in direct response to the overwelming incompetence of the
average recreational boater.  By the early 1980's 95% of the calls to 
the Coast Guard on Long Island Sound involved people who had run out of
fuel or had a readily repairable engine problem.  If you don't know
what your fuel consuption is and how much you have on board you are
neglegent in your duty.  Yes, the "recreational boater" has duties!
Don't whine about their lack of response, their budget has been cut
and cut again, where do you think the tax cuts came from?  

The policy of calling a towing company is fair.  If you break down 
on the highway, who tows you?  Not the State Police.  They, like the 
Coast Guard, are there for emergencies.  If you say "MAYDAY", they
will come.  It better be a real emergency, you may be calling them
away from a "life and death situation."  The motto of the Search and
Rescue people is "You have to go out.  You don't have to come back."
Can you even begin to live up to that?  I have known many Coast Guard
people over the last 25 years and have grown to respect their 
dedication to duty.

>2) Ignore requests for radio checks.
>
With all of the clutter on the radio I wonder if there is any real
communication going on.  It would be nice if some boaters would learn
the basics of radio communication.

>3) Harrass boaters with pointless boardings looking for drugs without probable
>cause.
>
I would add to the list of things to do about the "war on the Bill of
Rights" (aka "the war on drugs") write your Congress critter and vote.
Half of the people in this country seem to forget this duty.

>The hate is justified, IMHO	
>
Hate is never justified.

John A. Frieman
"Never ascribe to malace that which can adequately be explained
    by stupidity."

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dmi@iat.holonet.net (David M. Ilstrup)
Subject: Re: Request for opinions: Cruising and fishing for food
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:01:27 GMT

for fishing while cruising, I highly recommend 1/4" 3-strand nylong and
a large Rapala lure to look a lot like a mackerel.  The lures are expensive,
thus the 1/4" nylon.  Put out 100' or so of line, set it up on the winch,
tie a loop in the line with some light twine or string, and tie a coke can
or similar to the string.  When the fish bites, the light string breaks,
the coke can falls into the cockpit, thus alerting you that something has
grabbed the hook.  Put the line on the winch, don't bother slowing down,
pull out the ever-popular winch handle and crank the sucker in.
it works! especially on the way to hawaii or around mexico.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: Sunfish, Sailfish, Lasers
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:56:10 GMT

In <724174180.AA00017@ship.wimsey.bc.ca> Gunther.Yip@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Gunther Yip) writes:

>Being a cat rigged boat, the Laser doesn't point very well at all.  Well
>you get just as wet from the spray when sailing the Laser :)


Define "doesn't point well" please.  It points higher than a lot of
boats I know of.  It might not point as high as a cat, but 
what does?  Of course, a cat points high on a reach... 

The Laser, like any other boat, requires a certain familiarity on the
part of the skipper with all of the tricks to make it perform well.  For
example, it points like crap if the outhaul isn't extremely tight and
the vang isn't on.  There are also outhaul and cunningham adjustments to
be made depending on conditions. 

Will
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: moinard@irisa.fr (Yves Moinard)
Subject: Vendee Globe, some info
Reply-To: moinard@irisa.fr
Organization: IRISA, Rennes, France
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:21:41 GMT


No positions available, sorry.
High pressures around Saint-Helen Island modify the respective positions.
As any routing from outside, as well as any private weather info,
is forbidden in this race which takes very seriously the expression
``without any assistance", the ability of the skippers to interpret
weather maps and to foresee the incoming weather plays a big role now
(as well as chance...)
No great winds for most of the participants, and heat.


Alain Gautier is still leader, but only about 20 nm
ahead of Bertrand de Broc, as Gautier's route was to much in the east.
The Hungarian Nandor Fa has a good option, with a route on the west
of the others.
Philippe Poupon also, and he is rejoining  
Jose Luis de Ungarte  and  Alan Wynne-Thomas while 
Bernard Gallay retrocedes, rejoining Jean-Luc Van den Heede. 
Note for info that apparently the Italian Vittorio Malingri is the only one
using a ``regulateur d'allure'' (do not know the english name, it is this 
purely mechanical thing which keeps a constant route wrt the wind)
instead of an electronic pilot. (I guess he also have at least one pilot
which he uses sometimes?).

 
                                          Yves Moinard
E-mail: moinard@irisa.fr                      IRISA
tel: (33)-99-84-73-13                     Campus de Beaulieu
fax: (33)-99-38-38-32                     35042 RENNES-Cedex
                                               FRANCE

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Marelon fittings et. al.
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
	<1992Dec13.221745.27181@cs.brown.edu>
	<1992Dec14.194708.5295@progress.com>
	<14DEC199213022915@erich.triumf.ca>
	<1992Dec14.231244.7832@progress.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:39:08 GMT

To: 
In article <1992Dec14.231244.7832@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:

>Shoreside brass plumbing fittings SHOULD NOT be used for any critical (below
>the waterline) application on a boat.  Brass is an alloy containing a fairly
>active metal (zinc?) that will be eaten away by self-electrolysis within the
>fitting, leaving a weak, porous copper fitting.

Marine Grade Bronze ballvalves (I have 5 on my boat) made by Apallo/Jabsco
are all marked at UL-Marine.  If the shoreside ones are not marked as such
I would be suspect of minor differences.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: wex@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Gybing Centreboards
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:38:18 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

A keel or board which develops hydrodynamic lift does more than just
counteract leeway.  It also contributes to the heeling moment on the
boat.  If you increas the lift, you must also increase the heeling
moment.

If the keel or board is not perpendicular in the water (e.g., because
the hull is heeled) then its lift will do less to counteract leeway
because the horizontal component is less.  On the other hand, its
contribution to the heeling moment will be undiminished.

Since heeling is not a GOOD THING for performance, I imagine that the
good effect of a gybing centreboard in reducing leeway is to some extent
offset by the increased heeling.

There are alternative geometries which could give you more of the
benefits and less of the disadvantages.  Wings on the keel, for
instance, or bilge keels as described by
michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
in article <28651@oasys.dt.navy.mil>:
|> ... Lift was provided by 2 foils, one on each side. The
|> foils were canted so that when the boat was heeling they were closer
|> to vertical, and I think the blades were asymetrical in cross section
|> with a built in angle of attack.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
From: Gunther.Yip@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Gunther Yip)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Sunfish, Sailfish, Lasers
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 19:06:00 -0800

CR>I have never sailed a Tasar but there was one sailed at the club I sail
CR>and I was very impressed by it as a boat; it was sailed by an ex-Laser
CR>sailor and his daughter and they sailed it very well on handicap and it
CR>stood up well to the chop in the Bristol Channel caused by wind against
CR>strong tide.

CR>The Laser << I think was a good idea which didn't get executed properly,
CR>a (reasonably) cheap one design trapeze boat, but why did they have to
CR>stick so closely to the orignal Laser design and build in some of it's
CR>faults when with a bit more effort the whole boat could have been made
CR>better to sail by giving it a decent cockpit, better controls etc. I'll
CR>admit my prejudice is showing through because I think the best two-man
CR>trapeze boat is the 505.

Hands down, the only monohull to sail is a 505 :)

CR>doing a lot of swimming. In contrast the Laser is much harder work
CR>particularly upwind but if I only sail it once every 4 weeks at least I
CR>can sail it and not spend a lot of time swimming.

Being a cat rigged boat, the Laser doesn't point very well at all.  Well
you get just as wet from the spray when sailing the Laser :)


Gun


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks)
Subject: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:28:32 GMT

Good news! The ripp-off fee that the government imposed on boaters
that used water accessed by the coast guard is no more as of 1993!
Boats 20' and under will no longer be required to pay the $25.00 fee
and for boats over 20', it will be fazed out in the next 2 years. It
was shot down in congress (its about time boaters stopped getting
screwed).
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Automatic or manual transmission for towing?
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:38:12 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <168B513667.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>Should I be worried about my automatic overheating when I carry one bike,
>or two sailboards, or haul one small trailer?

>If not, then this thread has gone astray.  The original poster asked
>about hauling a Flying Scott; how much more does that weigh than my
>Banshee (175 pounds?) with two or three sailboards (30-45 pounds each)
>stacked on top?  And since we both post from the same University and
>there aren't many places to sail around here, I suspect that by
>"central Illinois" he means exactly the routes that I drive.  Should
>he really be all that concerned about all this overheating stuff?

>..Richard E+17


No.  I hauled a Lido 14 on a trailer with a 1980 Honda Civic, 5spd stick,
1500cc -- no problem.  The entire load was probably near 750 pounds.  I
would suspect that a Flying Scott on a trailer is going to be near 1000
pounds, which should not pose a problem to either a manual or automatic
transmission, but I'd recommend front wheel drive just because it keeps
your drive wheels out of the slippery stuff at the launch ramps.
-- 
Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Reply-To: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:51:42 GMT

He is a positive note on the Coast Guard:
Sailing down the Wes Coast of the US can be interesting.. I.e. one has all the
and bars to cross when comming into harbors. Everytime we called in to request
information about the entrance we got a quick and couteous responce. We
also would go to the Coast Guard Statios and ask for information about
furture
harbors and the people where alwyas very helpful and forth comming with
as much information as they where allowed to give! It is ture that in
most cases they will not come out to a vessel in distress, but they will
be very helpful with information, and will request near by vesssels to
standby or give assistance.

I'm not saying that the terrible searches they conduct don't happen... 
But they can also conduct proper searches.  Sorry I just wanted to add a
positive note about the C.S. since they were so helpful to us while we
where in US waters.
Alice
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zpope@osf.org (William Pope)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Reply-To: zpope@osf.org
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1992Dec16.211447.11572@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:16:44 GMT


In article <1992Dec16.211447.11572@ptdcs2.intel.com> mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts ~) writes:
> 
>    *** FLAME ON ***
> 
>    The Solution (tm) is to stay squeekey clean!!  Keep your boat a drug
>    free environment and you'll not only not run afoul of the Coast Guard,
>    but you'll be less of a hazard on the water to both me and yourself.

This has been proven to NOT be a solution.  Under the current laws of the US
the Coast Guard can board and search your boat, period.  In most cases the
boarders are polite and courteous.  You are placed in the position of
depending on the way some person feels at a particular moment on a
particular day to determine how you are treated.  IMO the powers and
latitude they've been given to fight the "war on drugs" are too broad.  The
Bill of Rights currently stops at the coastline.  Boats have been damaged
and even destroyed in some searches.  You have no recourse and will receive
no restitution without an act of Congress, literally.  Regardless of whether
or not anything was found.

This has been debated in this forum before.  I appreciate the Coast Guard
and the jobs they do to make boating safer for all of us.

As has been pointed out "zero tolerance" and the "war on drugs" is a policy
mandated by a political administration of *OUR* government.  If enough
people don't like this policy than it should be communicated in a manner
that will get it changed.  Don't hold it against the Coast Guard, they're
only doing what we tell them to do.

=bill
--
============================================================================
William Z. Pope                                     Phone: +1 (617) 621-8889 
Open Software Foundation                              Fax: +1 (617) 621-0584
11 Cambridge Center                                     Email: zpope@osf.org
Cambridge, MA  02142                             OSF DME Integration Project



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spady@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robyn Spady)
Subject: Re: use of sextants
Organization: Boeing
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:11:50 GMT

My husband received a sextant for his birthday . . . He's really anxious to
learn more about how to use it . . . Where, in the Seattle area, would be the
best place to enroll?  I occasionally see seminars/courses listed in the local
publications . . . However, when my father took his class (in Portland) the
instructor was so bad and impatient that the students were even more frustrated
than usual.

I would appreciate any input possible

Robyn



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:10:45 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:28:32 GMT
>FROM:   Gregory Banks <gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov>
[....]
>(its about time boaters stopped getting
>screwed). 
>

Oh, surely this is going too far!

--Michael Smith
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Subject: Re: Cover for Guest R/C Searchlight Head wanted
Keywords: canvas maker, searchlight cover source needed
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:43:48 GMT

In <1992Dec12.194653.15020@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john) writes:

>Season's Greetings!

>Ah, that time of the year when my family asks: What do you want for
>Christmas?  (Loosely translated:  What does the boat need this year?)

>Since they got me a Guest remote controlled searchlight last Christmas, I
>suggested that a nifty cover for the light would keep it really clean.
>I then set out to find who might have such a cover (Typically, I then tell
>them where to "go shopping").  I called Guest in Connecticut directly who 
>responded that they used to offer covers, but no longer do.  They 
>suggested that I contact my local chandelry which resulted in all sorts of 
>covers, none of which fit the Guest 291A-5 BEAMER(tm).  

>If anyone knows of a source of supply for this cover, please contact me.
>Thanks in advance for your help. Have a great Holiday and see you at the
>*B*O*A*T* show in January, February, March...then fitting out time again!

Would this not make a perfect "do it yourself project"?  :-).
>-- 
>Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
>(908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
>jadams@vixen.bellcore.com		| kahuna@attmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mfish@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Michael Fish)
Subject: Re: L. Francis Herreshoff's H-28
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:00:35 GMT

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>The November 1992 issue of CLASSIC BOAT contains a very nice article
>on the H-28...[text deleted]...no other model boat has made so many 
>circumnavigations -- and Herreshoff designed it for local waters!. 
>I must confess its one of the few designs I'd sell my soul for.

Francis,
	A recent issue (Sept/Oct 1992) of _Wooden Boat_ magazine
listed a H-28 (1967) for sale @ $15,000 in Rhode Island; one
occasionally sees adverts in _Latitude 38_.  There were a fair number
built over a long period of time, so you should be able to select from
several.  If you prefer to build, the plans are still available from
Ms. Elizabeth Vaughn, LFH Plans, P.O. 613, Santa Rosa, California
95402.  L.F. Herreshoff's article, "How to build H-28" has been
reprinted in _Sensible Cruising Designs_, pp. 19-36, International
Marine Publishing, P.O. Box 220, Camden, Maine 04843 (ISBN
0-87742-298-2.
	Have you considered his other designs for offshore yachts?
I'm thinking specifically of the ketch "Diddikai" (36'6" LOA, 31'LWL,
8'8" beam, 4'9" draft, 17,850# displacement, sail area 510 sq. ft.
There's one here in Solomons Island, MD - it's breathtakingly beautiful.
- Michael

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:35:57 GMT

>I think many of these sailors would have been in serious trouble if they
>had had power problems or GPS failures.

   So what if they drop and break their sextant, or drop it in the drink?
   What's the diff, really?  They're still relying on a device.  The
   important key to survival is not this or that technology you decide to
   use, it's knowledge, understanding, and resourcefulness.  

>By contrast, in the same issue, there's a story about a man who sailed
>10,000 miles in a dugout canoe, using only a compass and plumb bob for
>navigation (and he lost the compass in a capsize partway through the
>journey).  He had memorized the declinations of 50-odd stars, and used the
>plumb bob to help him determine when the desired star was directly
>overhead, thus fixing his latitude.  He sailed via the "Columbus method": 
>sail or north or south to the latitude of the desired destination, then
>sail east or west at that latitude until you get there.

   See!

>"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare

   Kill them?  Hell, we just *elected* one.  Probably more than that.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: robb@tfs.com (Not a tty)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:56:51 GMT

In article <7975@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington) writes:
>I just want to clear up one thing:
>The Coast Guard did not pass the boat tax,
>and the Coast Guard never got one red cent.
>What the Coast Guard did get was a lot of
>hate and discontent for having to enforce
>and indirect tax that did nothing for them
>or the boating public.
>PLEASE!  No matter what you think, the
>Coast Guard is our friend.

Ever been boarded?  Ever had the Friendly Coast Guard tear up your boat without
the benefit of a search warrant or probable cause?  Ever been stopped five, six
or seven times on one trip up the coast, without any explanation? If my friends
acted this way, I wouldn't consider them my friends.
-- 
Robb Kane (robb@tfs.com) | Triarchy - 1: government by three persons   2: a 
TRW Financial Systems    | country under three rulers   3: A large, elegant,
Berkeley, California     | full keeled sailing vessle so named for its crew.
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boardings and TQM
Date: 19 Dec 1992 02:19:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 8017@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM, alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington) writes:
> 
> I have been saving all of the postings concerning the
> Coast Guard and its policies.  I plan to remove the
> sigs from them and forward them to the Coast Guard
> Commandant.
> 
> I could spend a lot of time debating the motivation
> for some policies and what-not, but I have a better
> idea:
> 
> I am going to recommend that the boarding officer
> present the skipper with a business card.  That card
> should have the boarding officer's name, assigned cutter,
> and a toll-free number or address where comments concerning
> the boarding can be referred. 
> 
> My intent is to promote customer service and tear down
> some of the corporate annonimity that the Coast Guard
> has.
> 
> If you have CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions, please post them as a
> RE: to this posting.
> 
> Alan Yelvington
> 



Alan,

I think that is a great idea!  One additional thing I would like to see suggested
to the Coast Guard. As a way of increasing their level of responsibility in this
area, I think each Coast Guard district should (voluntarily) institute a policy 
of reimbursing the boat owner for damage done in the course of the inspection - 
when no drugs are found. This would make a boarding party think at least twice
(in this age of decreased budgets) before inflicting damage on a boat.

Jeff Huntington
From: cgr@otter.hpl.hp.com (Chris Romans)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:19:47 GMT
Subject: Gybing Centreboards
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.