HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenr@orleans.storage.tandem.com (Ken Rose)
Subject: Re: partial regulation
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc, Cupertino CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:38:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.204752.3366@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire) writes:
> Recently I have been troubled by similar thoughts concerning NAFTA.  I
>
>   [description of free trade and immigration deleted]
>
> Now, remove the freedom of immigration.  Mexicans can not move north for
> higher wages and Mexico is still a poor country so they would accept lower
> wages than under the truly free market.  This would cause more jobs from
> the north to move to Mexico than in the truly free market since the
> labor is cheaper.  It seems, at least in the short run, both Mexican
> workers and northern workers are hurt by this.  Note: they are not hurt
> by free trade, they are hurt by government immigration policy.
> 
> Thoughts?  Right, wrong, halfway?

In a sense you've compared apples and oranges.  You describe what
would happen if we had free trade and immigration, then compared
free trade alone to that and found it lacking.  What you *should*
be comparing is free trade vs. no free trade (that is, the proposed
scenario against the current scenario).

____________________________________________________________________
Ken Rose    (kenr@storage.tandem.com)
The Usual Disclaimer:  Any opinions expressed above are mine alone, not
those of my employer (who is kind enough to allow me Usenet access).
From: gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: U, the National College Newspaper poll
Date: 10 Sep 92 05:07:55 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <8SEP199218104713@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>U, the National College Newspaper, is taking a poll of college students,
>asking the question:
>
>   If the presidential election were held today, who would you vote for?
>
>To vote, call 1-800-662-5551.
>
>Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
>Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
>University of Arizona
>Tucson, AZ 85721

I don't know if you are a student or not, but by posting this message to a
newsgroup such as this, it removes the ability for U to attempt to limit
its poll to college students.

Greg
From: sreardon@bradley.bradley.edu (Steven Reardon)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: New poll results
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:31:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bradley University

In <10SEP199212275981@elroy.uh.edu> mece3d@elroy.uh.edu (Chris Struble) writes:

>The Clinton support is not surprising given the crowd, but I find the
>support for Marrou particularly encouraging, considering that this was
>BEFORE we did our spiel for the LP, and that these aren't the  kind of 
>people (kids and freaks mostly) who watch C-SPAN. The message IS getting
>out folks, if only in dribbles. Still, I have no illusions about an LP
>landslide this year.

I sent a letter to Chris, but I'd just like to state publicly that I
believe he has misjudged and maligned the 'alternative' music crowd.

It doesn't take any thought to adhere to the 'norm', in music or anything
else.  These people are not afraid to be themselves and like what they like.
These people have a vested interest in seeing freedom of expression protected.
It only makes sense that the LP should appeal to them.

The Bill of Rights, and the First Amendment in particular, protect the 
dissenter, the misfit, the unpopular, and the visionary.

These people are doing what America is supposed to be about.  They're
being themselves. 

You sound like a Republican when you call them freaks.

I like most of the music of the groups who are participating in
Lollapalooza.  I watch C-Span and CNN. You'd be surprised how thoughtful
and intelligent most of the people who like 'alternative' music are. 
You might also be surprised at how thoughtful and intelligent the lyrics
to the songs are.  They certainly require more thought than the mindless
generic fluff that the popular media spoon feeds the public.
The LP is the thinking person's party.  It only makes sense that the LP
should appeal to the 'alternative' music crowd.

I am a freak.  I am a Libertarian.  At least the Libertarians recognize 
my right to be what Chris considers to be a freak if that's what I want
to be.

Do you want to add anything davE?

-- 
*  "I just got my coffee the right color.  It's the only thing I have   *
*   going for me today.  Don't f**k with it."                           * 
*              -James Belushi                           Steven Reardon  * 
*                                         sreardon@bradley.bradley.edu  *
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: New poll results
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:47:31 GMT

>In article <10SEP199223231889@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu>, lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes...
>> 
>>The Libertarian Party has been around for over twenty years.  Isn't that
>>enough time to get started?

Just out of curiosity, how much time elapsed between the formation of
the Republican party and the election of Abraham Lincoln?

---
Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4
          To sight it must ring clear as a bell, it must snap
          in the ear, feel pleasantly sticky between the fingers,
          smell fresh and tempting and taste heavenly.
From: junhcho@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jun Han Cho)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: help, adobe logos at think.com
Date: 11 Sep 1992 00:00:58 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: help, adobe logos at think.com
Summary: I need help in displaying...
Followup-To: none
Distribution: world
Organization: Han for libertarians
Keywords: adobe, logos

I was wondering if anyone knew how to display the libertarian logos
found at the ftp site think.com on a unix or mac system,

thanks

junhcho@ocf.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: help, adobe logos at think.com
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: New poll results
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:12:08 GMT

In article 11SEP199214395343@elroy.uh.edu, mece3d@elroy.uh.edu (Chris Struble) writes:
>Nor to smash things and shave your head. Unless you think Skinheads are 
>closet Ph.D.s. BTW, I make no distinction between left-skinheads motivated
>by "love" and right-skinheads motivated by "hate". Violence is violence.

Interesting...what do you think of people who just like to have very short hair?

Like...me, for instance?
---
Richard Stueven
Technical Support Manager
Wind River Systems, Inc.

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: whg@INEL.GOV (William H. Gray)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Elector History
Keywords: McBride ...
Reply-To: whg@INEL.GOV (William H. Gray)
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Lab
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:13:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.194749.5797@microsoft.com>, fritzs@microsoft.com (Fritz Sands) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep11.150256.17407@inel.gov>,  I wrote:
|> |   As I recall Tonie Nathan was the more
|> | qualified of the two.
|> 
|> Dr. Hospers was a professor of philosophy.  Ms. Nathon was a journalist
|> sent to cover the convention.  This may or may not support your
|> viewpoint.

Hmmm ... I wonder what the respective records of philosophers and journalists are
in high office.  If the "philosopher kings" of Plato's _Rebuplic_ are any indication,
I might prefer the journalists.  The nearest thing to such a king that comes to mind
is Marcus Aurelius.  I think Dr Hospers would anathemize both flavors.  Hard choice.

I still think Marrou/Lord is the best "wasted vote" one can cast;  I just wish it
were Lord/Marrou (not that there's the remotest possibility of their election).


========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Republicans and Lincoln
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:01:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Ohio State University

Richard Stueven asks:

   Just out of curiosity, how much time elapsed between the formation of
   the Republican party and the election of Abraham Lincoln?

The Republican Party was founded in 1854 from the ruins of the already
well-established Whig Party. Lincoln won in a four-way race in 1860.
-- 
    Steve Casburn (scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
    *The* Ohio State University
    "New occasions teach new duties; Time makes ancient good uncouth /
     They must upward still and onward who would keep abreast of Truth..."
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire)
Subject:  partial regulation
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 20:47:52 GMT

I have come to believe that at times some regulation might be
worse than a lot of regulation (while both are worse than no regulation).
What brought me to this conclusion was thinking about the cable
industry.

Cable tv suffers from the government being half in and half out of
control.  Operators have been granted a monopoly but are not strictly
controlled.  This has led to high prices and a clamor for strict
regulation.  As much as I dislike government interference, more
regulation would actually help.  Of course, no regulation and
competition would help more.  Back home in Whitehall, PA there are four
(5?) cable operators competing and reasonable prices.

Recently I have been troubled by similar thoughts concerning NAFTA.  I
think that a truly free market would include both free movement of goods
and of people - free immigration.  In this hypothetical free market,
labor prices would move to somewhere between the current Mexican level
and the level of the Northern two countries.  This would occur because
Mexicans would no longer accept the very low wages they do now since
they could move north to find better wages.  Meanwhile, northern wages
would fall because cheaper labor would be available in Mexico and from
Mexican immigrants.  The market would find some new wage level. This
sounds good.

Now, remove the freedom of immigration.  Mexicans can not move north for
higher wages and Mexico is still a poor country so they would accept lower
wages than under the truly free market.  This would cause more jobs from
the north to move to Mexico than in the truly free market since the
labor is cheaper.  It seems, at least in the short run, both Mexican
workers and northern workers are hurt by this.  Note: they are not hurt
by free trade, they are hurt by government immigration policy.

On the bright side, eventually enough jobs and money will move to Mexico
for mexican labor prices to rise to a level that will make the northern
countries attractive.

Thoughts?  Right, wrong, halfway?

Scott McGuire
From: mece3d@elroy.uh.edu (Chris Struble)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: New poll results
Summary: Speaking of polls...
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:27:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Speaking of polls, I was involved in a very informal, unscientific poll
this weekend. Together with some other local LPers, I took an Operation
Politically Homeless booth to the Lollapalooza "concert" (I refuse to call
that stuff "music") near Houston. Before asking the usual ten questions,
we asked people their presidential preference. We included all the candi-
dates on the Texas ballot. From a total of 506 quizzes, the results were:

Clinton 50%
Bush 15% 
Perot 10%
Marrou 4%
Undecided/Other/Daffy Duck, etc.  21%

The Clinton support is not surprising given the crowd, but I find the
support for Marrou particularly encouraging, considering that this was
BEFORE we did our spiel for the LP, and that these aren't the  kind of 
people (kids and freaks mostly) who watch C-SPAN. The message IS getting
out folks, if only in dribbles. Still, I have no illusions about an LP
landslide this year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Christian Struble       |  The true civilization is where every     |
|  Mechanical Engineering  |  man gives to every other every right     |
|  University of Houston   |  that he claims for himself               |
|  mece3d@jetson.uh.edu    |                  --  Robert Ingersoll     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Libertarian Elector History
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 11:53:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <11SEP199214453749@elroy.uh.edu>
  <1992Sep12.165246.10916@leela.cs.orst.edu>

>Maybe.  I suspect it would be difficult to convince *anyone* to go through
>a presidential campaign twice.  A few power-mad dempublicans excepted, of
>course.

Compared with what libertarians have gone through to fight police states
(in America 200 years ago, in Eastern Europe recently), risking imprisonment
and death, a presidential campaign can seem downright pleasant.

About the only thing that is truly unbearable, in my opinion, is people
who say "I know that you represent what I believe in, and I know that
Clinton/Bush is a scumbag, but I don't want to waste my vote and let
Bush/Clinton win".


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.sig  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Xref: sparky alt.politics.marrou:1106 alt.politics.libertarian:12
From: junhcho@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jun Han Cho)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: looking for berkeley libertarians?
Date: 11 Sep 1992 05:09:14 GMT
Organization: Han for libertarians
Distribution: ucb
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu
Summary: looking for libertarian group in berkeley
Keywords: Berkeley, groups, clubs

Is there a Berkeley campus group for libertarians, like the Democrats and
Republicans do?

If so I would like some info on them.

Thanks

Han
Junhcho@ocf

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: mcbeeb@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Brian Mcbee)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Elector History
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 16:52:46 GMT

>In article <65679@cup.portal.com>, atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman) writes
>
>>Nancy Lord seems to be picking up a lot of fans in the LP this campaign.
>>I would say she is the odds-on favorite for the presidential nomination
>>next time.

Maybe.  I suspect it would be difficult to convince *anyone* to go through
a presidential campaign twice.  A few power-mad dempublicans excepted, of
course.


Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.misc
From: lohse@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Frank Lohse)
Subject: International PM - exchange wanted
Reply-To: lohse@rhrk.uni-kl.de
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:11:11 GMT


A friend of mine asked me to post the following into this newsgroup. Please
reply to the e-mail address below. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone!

Since I find it a little bit difficult to get appropriate addresses thru
my local BBS, I'm looking for people from the states interested in
corresponding with me by Internet by this means:

You should be a political sciences or law student (just as I am) and be
interested in exchanging views on current political affairs, in English,
French or German.

All other "arts" students would as well be welcome for correspondance.

Please address your E-mail to me at:

Markus_Schlegel@bn.maus.de

Hope to hear from you soon!
Markus
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or "voice" me in Germany at
                            +49 228 677124
                                            for first info and contact
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Frank Lohse
University of Kaiserslautern
Germany
lohse@rhrk.uni-kl.de
Lines: 19
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:56:22 MDT
From: gritton@colorado.et.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: [misc.legal] Drug dogs used in public schools
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu

jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:

> [ public schools are culture, right? ]

   Well, if you go by the theory (which you evidently do) that
everything under the sun is culture, then yes schools are culture.
Otherwise probably not.

   Even still, drug raids in schools are more closely tied to the
subject of drugs or (as the poster evidently felt) legal issues.

   Further is the now old argument that the poster didn't feel it
belonged in soc.culture.usa, so maybe it shouldn't be wantonly
reposted there.

   Soc.culture.usa is not a digest of everything that goes on in this
country.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
Xref: sparky alt.politics.usa.misc:21 alt.society.civil-liberty:5875 alt.politics.usa.constitution:209
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: Health care, my final words
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:07:53 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Sep11.162528.25263@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:

>>It seemed to me that the point was that it's a very bad idea to give
>>the U.S. government power to decide about health care.  Personally, 
>>I would add that it's a very bad idea to give the U.S. government 
>>power to decide about anything, but that's just me.

>I agree about not giving government power to decide about health care,
>that's why I support universal health insurance as we do it in France,
>Germany and (of course (-;) Canada.  The fidiciuary fund pays private
>doctors (who invest in their practices), and modern public and private
>hospitals.

I'm a little confused about this.  If you have a "fiduciary" fund that
pays for health care, who determines the payment into that "fund"?  I
think the major problem in the U.S. is that no one wants to pay for
someone else's health care (above the 40% or so who now get government
--i.e. taxpayer--paid health care now.  In order to make this work,
someone is going to have to force these people to pay for something
they don't want to pay for.  The usual suggestion is that this is a
government function.

Charlie
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Federalist Papers 
From: dtesch@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (David)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 03:14:57 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State UNDERFUNDED University
Keywords: Federalist Papers ASCII file  


Does anyone have an electronic copy of the Federalist Papers?
Since the Consitution and Declartion of Independence are availible
as ASCII files, it seems reasonable that the Federalist Papers might
also be availible as a text file "somewhere out there."


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Tesch                | "As long as the reason of man continues to be  
dtesch@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU |  fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, 
Cal Poly State University. |  different opinions will be formed."--J. Madison
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution
From: lenoil@Apple.COM (Robert Lenoil)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: 27th Amendment
Summary: Ratified 7-May-92
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:35:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Catalogic, Mountain View, California

In article <RFB.92Sep9142921@H.cs.cmu.edu> rfb@CS.CMU.EDU (Rick Busdiecker) writes:
>Would someone who knows post the precise dates on which Amendment
>XXVII was passed (25 September 1789 ?) and ratified?

The last state passed this amendment on May 7, 1992.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: 27th Amendment
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:11:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.213746.12966@news.vanderbilt.edu> rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (John Rickert) writes:
>
>    So, whatever became of the proposed 27th Amendment?  It's the one
>to the effect that Congressional salary changes can't take effect until
>after the next election.  What are the exact words of the amendment?
>Has it been officially acknowledged?  I knew there were some questions
>about its validity because it was originally proposed in 1789.
	It was proposed in 1789, it was ratified in 1992, and NOWHERE in the
Constitution does it say that an amendment is invalid if it takes more than
200 years to ratify. It's as valid as the first amendment, IMO.

>
>    By the way, what were the other amendments Madison drafted as
>part of the Bill of Rights which were not adopted?
>

	He proposed 12, 10 were adopted in 1791, 1 was adopted in 1992, and
I don't know what the last one was about. (The ones which weren't adopted in
1791 were listed as the 1st and 2nd amendments.)

-- 
Sameer_Parekh zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM zane@infopls.chi.il.us
PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM   | Specialization is for insects
Anonymous mail to ap.2363@cupid.sai.com |   - Robert A. Heinlein
Thu Sep 10 20:26:59 1992 US Debt: $4,054,077,940,567 Per capita: $15,876
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution
From: bcr@cernapo.cern.ch (Bill Riemers)
Subject: Re: Civics Classes for Law Enforcement Officials
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for High Energy Physics
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:08:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.200600.24173@cirrus.com> lando@cirrus.com (Dave Landis) writes:

   1)  They [some law enforcement officials] are ignorant of the Bill of Rights

   or

   2)  They don't care.  (Which is scary indeed.  Education can solve 1) )

Do you really believe so????  I found most Americans if asked how many
states thier are will give you the answer of 51 or 52.  I even know a
a doctor that would use this question to test for senility.  She confided
that she would accept any answer from 49-52, but the correct answer
is 52!  Come on.  If well educated people do not even know how many
states thier are, you can hardly expect to teach people who don't
really give a darn the bill of rights?  

For those of you in the dark out there the correct answer is 50.
Please check your encyclopidia's befor flamming!  (Washington D.C.,
Puerto Rico, the Philipinees, the Marshall Islands, ... are not states
and will probably never be states!  Yes, I do know some people had a
text book that listed Puerto Rico and the Philipinees as probable future
states...)

                               Bill



Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.society.civil-liberty,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc