HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:05:16 EST
From:         Gretchen Schirmer <IQZK100@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CULTURE AND VOTING

Thanks, Joyce, for the invitation to extend the discussion on voting.  I would
also be interested in hearing from people in countries who take the voting
process very seriously, especially countries with multi-party systems.

I've just finished reading thru a week's worth of XCULT-L messages which I
passed over while trying to stay on top of the demands of my job.  I just have
a couple of thoughts (from an American perspective) I'd like to share on voting

1) Voting is something I can do on Election Day, but participation is something
I can do every day -- by writing letters, signing petitions, speaking to others
(politicians and citizens) -- to voice my opinions about the issues I care
about.  Regardless of who is elected to a particular office, I still have a
right (privilege) and an obligation to participate.

2) Not only do I vote at the polls, but I try to vote with my purse.  This is
more complex than trying to decide who is the best candidate.  I am referring
to Zahir's remark about living in a corporate dictatorship.  It's not just
corporations that run the USA, but multinationals that own the world!  Call it
a corporate culture that has evolved into a "world culture," keeping up with
the next guy or woman.  Meanwhile, a whole lot of people in this world are
effectively cut out of the system (Somalia).  What I want to know is ...
who sets the standard for this "world culture," and WHY?

Gretchen Schirmer
IUPUI
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Voting
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:16:37 GMT
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Joyce,

I vote for local races...City Council and local Mayor and so on.... I stop votin
   g at the
State level and the Senate and so on....because I feel I am becoming
an Enabler...someone who is contributing to the continuation of
a crooked system....where campaigns are being funded for State Senators
by outside monies and where the incumbent wins 95% of the time anyway....

zahir
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:11:45 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Somalia/Bosnia

Phil,

Give me a break.....Why should the UN not be able to take any action against
the U.S. or China?.....The UN may not be US's alone, so its got 4
others, many of whom begging the U.S. for support....

For the UN to be truly seen as a ffair body, everybody should be equal.....

Its not my Gov't....and yes, I stopped voting.....  If it was the peoples
government, we would have national health insurance, gun control, no
PAC's such as the AMA, the NRA and so on....

We are already the only so called democracy where there is such low voter
turnout, because to most its a one party system with two branches,
Republican and democrats....The only thing we can be proud of as far as
our election process is concerned is that we have the best looking
white male presidents....no glasses, no smokers, no bald presidents,
no fat presidents, no ugly birthmarks on face, no woman president....

We are the democracy where the incumbents win 90% of the time because they
get the most money...they are in a position to sell votes on legislation
......

I could go on and on......but its a waste of time as you seem to
believe that "anyone can grow up to be president in the U.S."...

zahir
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:41:12 EDT
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Voting

What makes me think roe/Wad e will be overturned? Gosh, open your eyes.
There are so many restrictions on abortions now...woman who use public
clinics can't get the funding they need from the govt for medical
care...and there are so many religious fanatics running around trying
to block clinics.. give me a break zahir...

I'm sick tooday so I really don';t want to ge tinto a battle ... but I
actually think ,,,YES< I DO, that Clinto has a chance, and is a GREAT
candidaate. Gosh, some of you people are really so self-assure and
popous. This isn't a discussion, it
s a sort of target practice for you. Isn't it?

/Emmy
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:46:24 CDT
From:         "Mustafa AlAbsi 270-0510 Student Psychiatry"
              <u717@REX.UOKHSC.EDU>
X-To:         xcult-l%psuvm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu

RE: Bosnia

Patrick and the others:

What we read here is an extension of a negative attitude that some
individuals display with minimal compassion.  I can't resist the
thinking that some people just selfish.  They may have been learned
to be selfish to survive in this world.  It is clear to me that if
you belief that something is wrong, you would do whatever to
correct it.  Standing there, repeating to yourself the if's and if
not's is just an act of cowardliness.  Mrs. Thatcher (of Britain)
was correct when she brought up the "morals" into the Bosnian
issue.  It is clear that some people lack the compassion-- and may
be the morality to stand for the right thing.

     Some people talked about oil, economy, etc.  I would like to
bring up the issue of race and religion.  Let us be honest with
ourselves.  That is one of the first steps to take in order to face
our problems effectively.  I have heard a lot of talk about the
Western world being not only hesitant to support Bosnian Muslims
but also strongly against standing up against "christian brothers"
to defend Muslim children and elderly women.  Of course, this is
a frightening thought and brings the Nazi's worst into the picture.
I tend not to believe such interpretation.  Yet, I am still very
disturbed about this hesitancy in stepping and helping the
Bosnians.  I am not convinced about the reasons other offer to
explain the passive attitude toward the torture inflicted on the
Bosnians.
Mustafa
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Corrected fax nos for Somalia
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:59:28 GMT
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden

In my previous posting on the fax-via-email for Somalia I have discovered
a slight error. There was an 'f' missing in the second number. The correct
addresses therefore should be (hope I get it right this time):

	State_Department@f00912026477120.fax.sunet.se

	Boutrus_Ghali@f00912129634879.fax.sunet.se

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bernhard Helander                   x  Internet: 
Department of Cultural Anthropology x  Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se
University of Uppsala               x  Bitnet:
Sweden                              x  kulbh@seudac21
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
       'It's better to be roughly right than precisely wrong'
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                                  *                                        *
* Bernhard Helander                * Telephone: +46-18-182289 (office)      *
* Dept of Cultural Anthropology    *            +46-18-303448 (home)        *
* University of Uppsala            *                                        *
* Tradgardsgatan 18                * Fax:       +46-18-151160               *
* S-753 09 Uppsala                 *                                        *
* Sweden                           * E-mail: Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se  *                                  
*                                  *                                        *
*****************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 10:52:22 EDT
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Hola Amigos

Hola Gus:

Como estas? Gracias por tu mensaje. Estaba ocupado co mis estudios
-acabo de terminar mis estudios el la arte africana. Tenia un curso
durante el semestre pasado y fue muy interesante.

De donde eres tu? de california/? soy casada , tengo 26 anos, y vivo
cerca de Lincoln center en nueva york, . Estoy un estudiante del
penultimo ano en CXOlumbia University. Trabajo en la biblioteca F/T.

Tengo que irm, pero escribire otra vez.

ADios,
Mary Ellen (Maria Elena, Emmy, Em, ME)
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:47:56 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Peace and Personal Attacks

Deborah,

I may have been guilty for responding to sarcasm with sarcasm.... I have
noted your objections and will try to avoid it....  Do not sign off.

zahir
From: kschwab@wrdis01.af.mil (Clark Kent)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: New Posters??? (was Re: Voting)
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:29:29 GMT
Organization: 1926CCSG Robins AFB
X-Disclaimer: my views do not neccesarily represent those of the USAF, etc.

In article <CMM.0.90.2.714184933.ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez) writes:
>Deborah:
>
> [most of article deleted]  
>
>Is anyone else out there besides the seven or eight of us? (smile_)
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'd like to hear some new questions.
>
Okay, I'll bite.  I've never posted here before.  I'm not what you would call
a Cultural "expert", but I have been around ( Belgium, Germany, Denmark, UK,
and lastly Turkey)

While Turkey was probably the hardest to adjust culturally to, it was also the
most interesting for me. ( With the possible exception of those ceramic "hole
in the ground" toilets.)

While there, I spent a lot of time at the TAA. (Turkish-American Association)
Does anybody know if this exists in the U.S. ? I was unable to locate one in
the phone book.

Thanks,

kschwab@wrdis01.af.mil

Kerry R. Schwab
Warner Robins GA (USA) 
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:57:14 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 'in the news...'

Hi, Dan,

You have a point there...about the media reporting only on Americans...

If you watched NBC's coverage of the olympics, the focus was again on
Americans......I sat and watched a lot of it with int'l students and
the frustration was incredible as NBC would rather show "flashbacks" or
hype about the trials that an American athlete went through to get to
the Olympics instead of some live soccer or ongoing competition in
various sports....simply because at that moment, no American was
participating in a heat or playing in a sport...

and NBC's judgement seemed to have been rewarded as the ratings were the
highest ever....

I would tape the evenings program and then be able to see 4 hours of
events in an hour and a half while fast forwarding through the
internminable commercials and background hypes...

zahir
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
From: ak743@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doretta Hanschka)
Subject: Re: SOMALIA/BOSNIA
Reply-To: ak743@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doretta Hanschka)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 22:13:01 GMT


In a previous article, AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET () says:

>I think you hit it on the nail.....Somalia is Africa and black...Bosnia
>is white and getting more attention....It would have got even more
>attention and pressure to do more if those were not "muslims"....
Zahir, that may be part of it, but it's not the whole story.  The former
country of Yugoslavia also has/had a good-sized Muslim minority.  It's also
in Europe, and Eastern Europe at that.  The break-ups and shake-ups in
that part of the globe have been "news" recently.  A lot of that may be due
to the fact that many Americans have distant and not-so-distant relatives
in that part of the world.  How many people do you know who have relatives
in Somalia?  That they know about?
Also, there have been revolutions and rebellions and civil wars in Africa 
since those various nations gained their independance.:-(  It's not news
when one bunch of gun-toting idiots in Africa shoots up another bunch.  Maybe
it ought to be, but it isn't.  I have friends in the Cote D'Ivoire, and had
some in Liberia.  THe political unrest and even revolutions in those places
went virtually unnoticed in American news services.  When a person doesn't
have access to good news sources, you can't blame him/her for not knowing
what's going on.:-/  

I'd love to see better coverage of those areas, but the local papers and the
New York Times seem more interested in selling ad space than in printing
"All the news that's fit to print".

A fellow cynic re: media,
-- 
Nethead, aka the Ruth Hanschka, hath enscribed herein, a message
	ap290 and ak743 , both of the Cleveland Freenet
			Here Be Dragons
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:22:00 PST
From:         JROUTH@EWUVMS.BITNET
Subject:      For Phil.....

Dear Phil:

I was amazed reading your note. So far I have strongly disagreed to many on
referring Americans as geographically illiterate, self centered, near sighted,
 racists, anything American is the best etc etc. Much of it may actually be
represntative of the ideas of some STEREOTYPE REDNECKS but I presume they are
a MINORITY.

I stay in a white dominated very conservative small town and as an International
   l
l student I am quite conscious of the fact that I stand out in many ways from
Americans in their day to day habits. But in spite of all these people out here
I have found to be receptive and I was hoping to find a STEREOTYPE REDNECK.
Guess you would fit into it quite well.

There are certain things on which you can't maintain DOUBLE STANDARDS without
being criticised. Let me point out a few things.

1. US raises such stink about human rights than why did it or why does it
support puppet democracies, dictators etc. arming them to the teeth just to
preserve its own interests? Argentina, Iraq, Algeria, Iran......are all its
own creations.

2. You speak of supporting young democracies, people fighting for their basic
freedoms than why there was this ominious SILIENCE on aparthied, freedom of
Namibia, support to the dictatorship of Myanama (Burma), Vietnam war etc. etc.
The thing is simple the US govt proclaims to be the major SUPERPOWER, a
champion of democracy, a BIG BROTHER, a WORLD POLICEMAN etc. but as long as its
own interests are not directly threatened it remains still, indifferent and
callous raving and ranting about its views on freedom, human rights etc. Face
it if you want to be all that you say WORLD POLICEMAN, CHAMPION OF DEMOCRACY,
PEACEKEEPER.......... than as and when the situations demands you have to take
action maintaing a double standard will only allienate you more. When you take
up the resbonsibility of TOO MANY PEOPLE IN YOUR FOREIGN POLICY then learn to
accept CRITICISIMS.

3. Personally I ahve always felt the UN to be a stooge of the US and her allies.
Its policies on maintaining peace and order STINKS like FISH esp. the SECURITY
COUNCIL. I am totally opposed to the idea of permanent members and would rather
advocate a general voting policy on the issues. Yes, UN has always (moreorless)
remained as a US of A.

Joyanto Routh
jrouth@ewuvms
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:10:53 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Voting

Emmy,

I apologise for upsetting you.....  I am for pro-choice.... but I do not
think electing Clinton will end all the issues of Abortion or that
Abortion will be federally funded....and you are giving too much
credit to Bush if you think he was responsible for the restrictions
on Abortion....  He just happened to be very lucky that he and Reagan
got to appoint so many Supreme Court judges....

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:03:53 -0700
From:         MGARBER@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Americans, etc
X-To:         XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

As I historian, I feel impelled to point out that much of American socialism in
 the 19th cnetury was agrarian. Besides, you'd be surprised, Patrick, at how
 American you are: walking, talking, thinking, and on on on...Marilyn
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:58:16 EDT
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>

Thanks Phil. I couldn't have said it better.

/Emmy
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:44:37 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Abortion

Allan:

Good idea about discussing Abortion in other cultures.....One has to remember
that while laws differ and religious opinion on Abortion also may vary, it
is difficult to evaluate abortion in terms of personal choice and a woman's
right to choose....

Unlike the U.S., where there is very little social consequences to personal
action, in many Eastern and Middle Eastern cultures almost nothing is
entirely a personal choice..... the concept of privacy is very different and
it is rare to find single women living alone in different states from their
immediate family...  Generally, decisions are made in group consensus and
my feeling is that in the case of Abortion, the immediate family, parents
and siblings is involved...  I also think issues such as the reputation of
family, parents status in society and the future marital prospects of the
pregnant woman (assuming she is single) are all considerations probably not
present in American and western society...  The above issues are so strong
that legal or religious laws become inconsequential....

The single woman who chooses to have the baby or let the pregnancy be known
faces far more consequences in some Eastern and most Islamic societies than
can be imagined here...

zahir
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:39:56 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: National Identity

Dear Gus,

On certain subjects, I guess I get opinionated and perhaps "pompous"...

I
Glad to know you are coming to Chicago....but I live in Dayton, OH,
some 300 miles from Chicago....

Would love to meet you halfway or something.... do let me know more
details...dates and stuff...

zahir
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:24:00 EDT
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      [Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>: US]

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	id AA12814; Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:21:08 EDT
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:21:07 EDT
From: Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
To: x-cult-l@psuvm.BITNET
Cc: ugactz
Subject: US
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.2.713823667.ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>

Zahir:

If you don't vote, hey, than you shouldn't complain... what are you
doing to change anything.. I may not support certain things that are
happening around me but at least in some way I work toward changes.. I
walk in rallies, write letters, try to stay informed, and most of all I
VOTE.

This is my country, and I'm proud to be here - flaws and all...
Problems are arisen because of leadership. And I think if you think
that our presidents are the best looking, well... I think that's an
overgeneralization and just a bit of argumentative, emotional bit of
rambling on your part. If you're angry about the way things are either
do something about it for yourself or accept things and live in peace.

The US is an oasis for many, and especially for me.

/Emmy
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:27:36 EST
From:         Gretchen Schirmer <IQZK100@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Americans, etc

Patrick -- My response to your message about what it means to be an American
was not an indictment of you or your beliefs, but merely my way of saying that
people are people, wherever they are.

I guess I question the whole notion of national identity, where culture and
traditions seem to more appropriately "define" us.  On the other hand, I also
question the notion of another trying to define me or anyone else.  It just
goes to show that we have to be very careful in describing each other.

You alluded to an issue (perhaps unintentionally) which is of great interest to
me -- you said, "I am just a man."  I would like to hear some discussion on the
culture of gender.  Thanks for your reply.

Gretchen
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:50:11 EST
From:         Deborah Martin <DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET>
Subject:      Lost address

 My apologies to everyone on the list for the private nature of this message.

 Monica,

      I would like to respond to your questions about what they teach in
 schools in America but I have lost your address as I am in the process of
 moving.  I haven't seen you on the list lately and so resorted to this
 public message.  If you will send me your address with any specific
 questions that you have I will do my best to respond.

 Deborah
 DMARTIN@WCU
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:15:01 -0400
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Abortion

Hello Zahir..

I am not sure my self about what kind of consequence..I think you might put
the Islamic view in corner...

Dilshad Ahmed..
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:45:08 EST
Comments:     Resent-From: <DMARTIN@WCU>
Comments:     Originally-From: Deborah Martin
From:         DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET
Subject:      Peace and Personal Attacks

 Lately, there seems to be a couple of individuals on the list who have
 over-stepped their bounds in disagreeing with others on the list.  In fact,
 it seems that they have even gone so far as to attack with vehemence these
 individuals that they disagree with, forgetting that we all have a right to
 differing opinions.  I urge these individuals to change their tone so that
 stronger measures will not be necessary.

 Deborah
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