From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)
Subject: Re: Believers: What Would Make You Not Believe In GOD?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:11:00 GMT

In article <11097@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, 
bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes...

>In article <9JAN199303004506@utarlg.uta.edu> 
>b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
>>
>>Speaking as a believer, it's easy. Just simply chose not to believe.
>>GOD won't stop you. GOD will help if you chose to believe though.
> 
> 
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
> 
>I assume you haven't seen my posts regarding this very issue, so
>I'll be gentle.  Please explain to me how anyone can *choose* to
>believe something that makes absolutely no sense to them?  I can't,
>and I've tried.

I'm still catching up. But I have read the FAQ. Sorry about the 
chose/choose. 

I believe you mean to ask your question honestly. I choose not to now.

You may be trying to catch me in some verbal tangle, as evidenced by
your focus on spelling. Or you might be trying to destroy my credibility
by referring back to postings in which you've examined all the nuances
to the exquisite degree. And you might just be a devil, or given to the
devil to worry me with unanswerable questions, and take up my time when
I could be off working on personal communicators, which each of us could
wear all the time and stay online in real time, and become a "super-team," 
a greater entity beyond anything ever seen on earth before.

You likely want people to doubt God. Since you just feel numb to things 
like faith, everyone else must be fooling themselves. Like how everyone
says they aren't "stimulated" by the same sex, other sex, animals, cars,
leather, silk, porn and erotica, food, vibrators, danger, earthy smells,
death -- but they all are. They all lie about being exclusively homosexual, 
or heterosexual. Everybody responds to all kinds of stimulation. Unless
maybe they have brain damage or nerve damage. Everybody knows they can 
be aroused by strong stimuli -- look at the perfumes, and shows like 
"cats", and all the blood and gore horror flicks. There are no such 
thing as monosexuals (homo or hetero) and their is no such thing as God.
It's absolutely true -- THERE IS NOT SUCH THING AS GOD. And there's is
no reason to think there is anything beyond. And you BOB want me to know
that, cause it's obvious, If I just admit it. Actually you couldn't 
give a shit. Who cares? There is nothing that shows anyone really cares.
Least of all some mental delusion. Besides, anything could happen, we
just don't know -- tomorrow could bring some torment for all of us 
beyond anything that has ever been imagined. There is no way to know
it's not so....

And it's even easier to choose to think earth is a trivial part of the
universe. And especially each person.

But I choose to think, that you actually meant to ask, "how to choose
to believe" in all honesty. There's no reason to think you're not at
least courteous. And why would you bother with discussing such matters
otherwise, if you are actually convinced that there is no GOD? If I 
believed there was no GOD, well --- I'd be planning how to cause 
or be out causing "accidents," which change society and politics. Like
poisoning foods and derailing trains. I could become rich, just by
jerking with the stock market, and there would be nothing worthwhile in
having this discussion. 

And If you really get your kicks out of screwing with people's minds
then you could do that elsewhere than in alt.atheism. Which is afterall
a place each of us come to willingly. Even if only to hone our logic or
rhetorical skills. Easier that speculation is just to ask you. Why
trouble though, I'll just take you at your word. 

I believe you have a hard time distinguishing between "choosing"
and "believing." They both seem like acts of will, right?? And an
act of will is an act of will no matter what you call it. So 
choosing to believe is believing in belief. Which is irrational?
Even if it is funny.

Gee, Bob isn't just zen doing adequate rather than all this self
flagellation? Choose to believe or just believe. Either works if that's
what you do. Believing in GOD is easier though. Cause all you have to do
is -ask- for help. Which you've already done.

Ok. Ok. This is preachy. "Self-certainty" is preachy.

>Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen   "So ask GOD, I can't change your mind for you."