From: vvs3564@tamsun.tamu.edu (vishwas)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: No Soul
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:47:48 GMT
Organization: ----


	This is in reply to Mr. Wong's assertion of No Soul theory. As I am 
trying to express Soul theory in a totally different way his article is not
included.

	The important point in the Soul theory is " You can't know the Soul ".
And the reason is knower can't be known. The logic behind it is if for knowledge
of any thing two basic requirements are 1) A knower and 2) the thing itself.
If the soul can be known then we nead one more knower. Similarly it is true with
the mind. The contents of the mind are known. So there must be a knower. Who is 
this knower ? If there is no Soul (or no Knower) who gets the knowledge? If we 
take buddhist viewpoint and say that only mind is there and nothing else then we
can't answer the above question. Or to know the contents of mind we will need 
another mind and so on. This simple logic explains the presence of Soul.

	Other important points are 

1) Cycle of birth-rebirth can't be explained logically if we propose No Soul
theory.
2) If everything is changing in this world (which is certainly the buddhist
viewpoint) then this change should be with respect to something which is 
constant. There are lot of examples given to explain this point in the scripture

	Another important point is Soul can not be known by mind only. One has 
to go beyond the mind to say for sure whether there is a Soul or not. But it's
presence can be realized in all conditions. After waking from sleep, one says
he dreamed something or slept without dream or the sleep was not very good(?).
We can take the example of deep sleep (or sleep without dream). Who is the
knower in deep sleep? Who knows that sleep was without dream? This in turn 
indicates the presence of an entity which was knower even in the deep sleep.
You can call this entity as Soul or whatever you want. That doesn't make any
difference.

	Soul is changeless, immortal entity which is the knower of all the 
conditions and situations through which one is going. The mind and the body
are the mere instruments of this entity. According to Samkhya philosophy
which is dualistic in nature, Soul never takes part in any action that is 
performed by the body-mind combination. So it is taintless, non-doer etc.
But it only observes the actions of body-mind combination. The mind is 
dependent on the soul for its light without which it can't work. The ego or
ahamkara can be perceived as the reflection of the soul in the mind giving 
rise to the I consciousness. 

	Many people remember their previous incarnations. Who is the knower?
Who carries on the memory of all the incarnations? If everything is changing
it is impossible to explain these questions. One can not even say about 
rebirth because who is taking birth again if there is no soul? 
	
	I know the famous buddhist example to do away with this fact. That is 
if we are moving the dhup stick very rapidly in a circle we see a continuous
circle. But this anology can't be used to explain rebirth because there must
be somebody to reincarnate again.

	I hope this article will clear the Soul theory a little bit. But if 
all of you want a discussion on this topic I will be always ready to 
contribute.

	Vishwas.



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