HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:03:18 GMT

In article <44581@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
(Tommy Hwang) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.172632.2715@tc.fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
>(The Napoleon of Crime) writes:
>
>>Suggestion: try posting in rec.arts.comics with the keyword "MANGA:"
>>at the
>
>     However late, okay, but I will cross post AS IS.  No "MANGA" warning
>in headers.

You're advocating deliberate rudeness.  Not in posting to
rec.arts.comics, but in posting to a group without following the
recommended posting procedure for that group.  The FAQ for the group
already recommends using standardized header prefixes, and many
categories of posts do this fairly consistently.

On the other hand, if you want to behave just like the X-zombies, go
ahead.

>To alt.manga readers, I would recommend the same, I am just curious
>on what would happen.

I admit, so am I.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rlb@access.digex.com (Richard L. Butler)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.frp.misc
Organization: The Fourth Drawer on the Left, Second Column
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:16:00 GMT

imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:
>  I suggest that a rename of r.g.f to r.g.f.misc be added to the ballot and
>be conditional on the passing of at least 2 other groups.
>

No, it should stand or fail based on the vote as it stands:

     If enough people loathe the idea of changing r.g.frp to *.misc,
	but the other votes pass, we have an anomalous hierarchy, but
	one which the majority of voters has shown approval for;

     If people hate the new groups, but (for some unknowable reason)
	vote to accept the *.misc name, then we are at least staged
	for eventual evolvement into a hierarchy;

If we split at all, we should accept the *.misc name (IMO).  If this split
doesn't float, we should *still* accept the *.misc name, because we're going
to be back at this in six months.  Although a split doesn't serve any special
needs for me (I'll read all the resulting groups from this split, as of the
3rd(?) pass of the RFD), I don't think that people who want a split will rest
until they get one, so we should (again, IMO) vote for a split which serves
to *split* traffic in a useful way.

Needless to say, some people do not concur that Loren's split does this, but
that's what all the shouting has really been about...

-- 
 Richard L. Butler             rlb@access.digex.com             301-220-2020
 Digital Express Group, 6006 Greenbelt Road #228, Greenbelt, Maryland  20770
   **** Express Access: Online Communications in Washington/Baltimore ****
   * login as "new" for info, 301-220-0462 (Wash) or 410-766-1855 (Balt) *
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence)
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp reorg
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: news
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:21:35 GMT

jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang) writes:


>I've only been sketchily following this discussion, but it strikes me that
>the most practical solution would be to simply vote for the  creation of
>rec.games.frp.dnd   or  rec.games.dnd

>and worry about  cyber  in a separate vote or at a later time.

No frp groups outside of the .frp hierarchy.  The r.g.cyber was a
bad idea, and I wish it had been killed, but it's passage is no
reason to make a bad mistake worse.

-- 
Dustin Laurence            "Someone please stop me, before I net again."

laurence@alice.wonderland.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.jobs.misc
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Keywords: RFD misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:02:22 GMT

[]
A couple of comments ...

First, creating the newsgroup doesn't mean creating entry-
level jobs.  Either the jobs are there or they're not;  creating
a newsgroup as a response to a lack of postings in the area
doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense.

Second, even here in Outer Podunk we have more than enough
people qualified to apply for any entry-level positions we
might have.  It makes no sense for us to spend money recruiting
out of the immediate area, since we can undoubtedly fill
such positions without having to fly someone in and put them
up in a hotel.

[Finding good experienced people, however, is another matter
entirely.]
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: crm25@bnr.ca (Fred Black)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: creation of eunet.aviation
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:07:58 GMT
Organization: bnr

In several articles various netters write about the proposal to create a European
aviation news groups and cite examples of European posters being flamed by other
netters of unusually narrow mind.

I would just like to add that I for one enjoy the posts from outside of North
America as it gives me insight into what GA is like in the rest of the world.  I
also find it interesting to compare the regulations in Canada with those of the
US, europe and elsewhere (ours seem to be a mess of ICAO and FAA-like regs.)

As others have commented, I encourage any european net.lurkers to enrichen us
with their experiences.  I also hope that if eunet.aviation is created that 
rec.aviation will not loose any of the non-NA traffic that it now gets.

-- 
Fred G. Black         E-mail:  crm25@bnr.ca          Bell-Northern Research
PP-ASEL,G             Phone: (613)-763-7452 (W)      P.O. Box 3511 StationC  
                             (613)-728-0359 (H)      Ottawa, Ontario  
My opinions only                                     Canada K1Y 4H7
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 16:17:13 EDT
From: Jim Achuff <JRA102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.jobs.offered reorganization

I'm all for it! Especially since I'm one of those who is looking for an entry-
level position.
-------
Jim Achuff           : Help Desk Consultant   : Penn State and IBM are who I
JRA102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU : Sr. Student Consultant : work for....but Jesus Christ
IBM PS/2 Student Rep : Student Operator       : is who I live for.       <><
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:27:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Apr13.222709.15991
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>Please don't be offended that I feel that domestic comics and manga
>should be at the same hierarchical level.  To me, it's very intuitive.

    I'm not offended by you wanting domestic comics and manga at the
same hierarchical level. I still think you are supplying the
hierarchical levels of UseNet with value that they don't possess, but
that doesn't offend me either. 
    What does offend me is that you seem to think that rec.arts.comics
exists solely for the purposes of discussing "domestic comics". This is,
at best, near-sighted and close-minded, at worst, it becomes petty, and
stupid. Rec.arts.comics exists for the discussions of all type, forms,
shapes, sizes of graphical novels, or sequential art (seems to be the
new buzzword term).
    Manga is the term given to eastern forms of graphical novels, and
just because people posted about them to rec.arts.anime, really only
tells us that in Japan the people who draw manga are basically the
people who animate it. And it says that for some reason (probably
traffic volume) the manga readers decieded not to post to the
appropriate group for their discussion, and now seem to feel warrant a
place in the hierarchical structure that, for them, holds some
non-existent value.
    This is what offends me about this whole debate.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:41:28 GMT

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <8HLEM2J@taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr14.140123.18711@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>> >In article <26JE8OF@taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>> >> Sorry, you don't get a veto.
>> 
>> >Why not ?
>> 
>> Nobody gets a veto. I don't. You don't. Spaf doesn't. Dave doesn't. Henry
>> doesn't. Even Ken and Dennis don't.

>Who are Henry, Ken and Dennis ?

Henry is Henry Spencer, I'll be bound.  I'm not sure about Ken and Dennis;
they might be before my time.  :-)

>Don't you think a proposer of the group which exists should have some
>criterion to evaluate whether a revote should be conducted ?

No.  And neither do most proposers/creators of a group.

Ask Roger Noe.  He was instrumental in the creation of rec.arts.startrek
during the Great Renaming, but he never claimed this gave him special
dispensation to decide how and when a split should take place.

Give it up, Alok.

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:29:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia):
>In article <26JE8OF@taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> Sorry, you don't get a veto.
>
>Why not?

This guy just gets funnier and funnier.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Not able to get through to vote address
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1992 05:12:19 GMT

 VB> == V. Balaji <balaji@nexus.yorku.ca> 

 VB> I can't get through to the address to which votes are to be directed on
 VB> the comp.society.privacy CFV (drears@spica.army.mil). Any suggestions?

Try 'pica.army.mil', not 'spica.army.mil'.  No "s".
--
Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    INTERESTING DEFINITIONS DEPARTMENT:
System Manager & Postmaster     |  "An editor comes with a guarantee and a
Electronic Frontier Foundation  |    toll free customer service number."
+1 617 864 0665  NIC: [CKD1]    |  -P. Hallam-Baker <hallam@zws009.desy.de>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mccombt@cs.rpi.edu (Todd McComb)
Subject: Re: sci.anthropology (LONG) (long response, too)
Organization: Rensselaer Mathematics Dept., Troy NY
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:17:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.120841.2357@ducvax.auburn.edu> David Roller writes
about some unpopular usenet behavior, ending with:

>In a _science_ culture, such attacks and pollution would be considered
>deviant; ...

You expect us to believe that those things are directly related to
science (or the absence thereof) rather than individual maturity?

Science is over-rated.  (IMHO, of course -- though I spent a substantial
piece of my life to get a phd in applied math just to be able to make that
statement as an insider.)

-- 
Todd McComb                             mccombt@turing.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.1.1]
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:41:00 GMT

In article <frnk.702834223@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:

>   I'm not making a mailing list because I don't have the time. 

Tough noogies, Frnk.  This is not a viable alternative.

>   And what is the big deal about new groups?

Ask yourself that again when you start seeing CFDs for
rec.music.maurice-chevalier and rec.music.leonard-nimoy.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: Rec.games.mud reorganization (Was Re: Um, okay, I did it.)
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:29:44 GMT

awozniak@zeus.calpoly.edu (The WOZ) writes:

>Trying to make all the news.groups people happy by renaming the
>thread.  Please followup to _this_ article...

To what do we respond to?  There is no content to the post!  (Hmm, how
about proposing something like Subject-To:, similar to Followup-To:,
which would change the subject in followups... naaaahhh...)

>( just like you!  ///  awozniak@morpheus.calpoly.edu       )

--
  ///   ____   \\\       | CAUTION:
  | |/ /    \ \| |       | Avoid eye contact.  In case of contact, flush
   \\_|\____/|_//        | mind for 15 minutes.  See a psychiatrist if
       \_)\\/            | irritation persists.  Not to be taken
gberigan `-' cse.unl.edu | seriously.  Keep out of sight of children.
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.comics
From: boisvert@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian Richard Boisvert)
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.who-would-win
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:48:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.050925.8490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
>
>In a previous article, forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) says:
>
>>This is a formal Request For Discussion, proposing the creation of an
>>unmoderated newsgroup:
>>
>>alt.who-would-win
>
>Here on rec.arts.comics we call it "Hoo'd Win".
> I think.  The apostrophe might be wrong.
>
>Makes sense as a group.  But would enough people
> use it?

Who cares?  If it will get this stupid, pointless thread off this newgroup, 
then I say go for it.  Can someone out there who knows how create alt.who-
would-win?  I'm not sure how, but I know it isn't hard to create an alt group.






-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Things are more like they are now    |     Brian R. Boisvert
then they ever were before.          |     Worcester Polytechnic Institute
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:46:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <rdippold.703210289@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> 
> >In article <a_rubin.703186410@dn66>, a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) writes:
> >> 
> >> C) The vote was invalid; it is considered as if it never occured.
> >> 
> 
> >If we consider that the vote never occured,
> >please explain to me: On what basis are the 48 % sites carrying SCIA ?
> 
> Automatic newgrouping.
> -- 

????????

A.
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:59:24 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) writes:
 >...In other words, knowing a lot about manga does *not* give you an
 >automatic insight into USENET newsgroup naming conventions.

Never said it did.  But it certainly qualifies you to decide whether it
belongs under *.comics, *.japan, or whatever.  I also realise it's
my job to convince the Usenet community of this, but some folks don't
seem to be makin' much of an effort to listen.



--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:04:48 GMT

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>If anyone on news.groups remains uninformed on the nature of manga
>(ie. all manga, not the tiny subset of comic adaptations which a lot
>of mistaken people seem to be referring to), you should:

>     - post or email about specific uncertainties;

OK, I'll bite.  I just reread over 100 messages about this debate, and
I saw no sensible explanation as to why manga are so different from
comics that they do not belong under rec.arts.comics.  I've been to
Japan.  I've seen manga.  Please explain precisely why rec.arts.comics
is appropriate for discussions about Maus, RAW, American Splendor,
Tintin, Asterix and the translated Akira but not for manga.

I can understand why you don't want to have to slog through
rec.arts.comics.  I don't understand what objection you have to
rec.arts.comics.manga.

There will be very little overlap between the current rec.arts.comics
and rec.arts.comics.manga.  So what?

rec.arts.comics should be renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc.  Propose
it, and it will pass (it should have been proposed already).

rec.arts.comics.manga implies that manga are a subset of comics.  Show
me a manga that is not a comic, remembering that the term ``comic''
encompasses everything listed above as well as comic strips and
political cartoons.  Please be specific, rather than simply saying
``manga are different.''

Maybe I'm stupid.  But as far as I can tell, the explanation that Mr.
Sinclair refers to has not yet appeared.
-- 
Ian Taylor                     ian@airs.com                    uunet!airs!ian
First person to identify this quote wins a free e-mail message:
``Do you make a grievance of weighing so many pounds only, instead of three
  hundred?  Then why fret about living so many years only, instead of more?''
Xref: sparky news.groups:9781 alt.bbs.waffle:4189
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:23:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.150353.1696@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> turner@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (George Wm Turner) writes:

>I support the creation of the sci.imaging group.  I cannot comment on 
>the need for a news group dealing with the image processing that
>computer scientist do (AI recognition, 3D visualization, which would make sense
>naming comp.graphics.*).

I don't really mind either way if the group is comp.imaging,
sci.imaging, or whatever, but, please, let's drop the comp.graphics.*
idea.  Image processing is neither a subset nor a superset of computer
graphics, IMHO, other than the fact that you _sometimes_ end up
displaying the results on a video screen or printer.  As for the AI
and visualization topics, I believe there are already newsgroups that
cover that (comp.ai.vision, and, I think, comp.visualization?  Or
something like that).

> I would like to see a news group dealing with 
>scientific data image processing; often these images are the result of some
>kind of a sensor system rather then computer generated images.  Issues of 
>concern to me include signal/noise, signal calibration, filtering
>techniques, image convolutions, multi-spectral image registrations, & data
>reduction/compression to name a few. 

Many of the same issues come up in, for example, visual tracking
systems for robots, machine inspection systems, and other industrial
applications which aren't strictly "science".  Image
coding/compression, for another example, is a major issue in
multimedia and digital telecom circles.

If anything, though, any comp.* group should be a subset of comp.dsp,
not comp.graphics.  Virtually everything you mention above is much
more closely related to dsp than graphics.  But I think the field is
broad enough to have its own node directly under comp.* and/or sci.*,
so the point is academic, IMHO.

>I would vote for a sci.imaging group but as interesting as 
>comp.graphics.imaging might be, my time is limited and I would probably 
>not wade through all the potiential articles.  I can see sci.imaging as 
>being a useful tool im my work.

I like the idea of both a sci and a comp group also, if there's enough
support for two groups.  Would anyone be willing to take a straw poll
to see how much interest there would be in two groups (or even one,
for that matter :-) )?

Paul



-- 
Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 11 Apr 92 10:15:32 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

Just a hearty LET'S DO IT! for the group.  I'm a graduate student in radio
astronomical image processing.  comp.graphics{.visualization} would be
utterly inappropriate for what I do.  The most sophisticated rendering I
use is a logarithmic greyscale, or a contour map.  I don't *need* any more
than that.  On the other hand, I spend a lot of time worrying about the
details of digital deconvolution, which is certainly in the realm of "image
processing".  A general image processing group would be of great interest
to me, since I know quite a bit about a rather narrow subset of the field.
I think I could both contribute and learn a great deal from such a group.
Needless to say, you've got my vote.

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: ericy@crchh435.bnr.ca (Eric Youngblood)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.autos.carhobby discussion?
Keywords: 41092
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:57:18 GMT
Reply-To: ericy@crchh435.bnr.ca (Eric Youngblood)

What ever happened to the discussion about creating the new automobile
group for performance and muscle car enthusiasts?

I was under the impression April 8, 1992 was when the subject was allowed
to be proposed for discussion?

Anyone Know?


Ericy
Date:  9 Apr 92 10:38:19 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.manga is anomalous and misleading.
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
 >Have done, several times.  Schodt makes it VERY clear that while the
 >medium's origins and (usually) subject matter are different from that in
 >the western comics tradition, their forms and presentation are exactly the
 >same.  If you want the manga group to focus on the form's ties to Japanese
 >cultural history, create rec.arts.japan and put it *there*.  Otherwise:
 >they walk like comics, they talk like comics, they smell like comics -- so
 >they're *comics*.  

It has to be either-or?  Why shoebox them?  Why not give them a hierarchy
of their own, like everyone else wants?

 >Goddammit all to hell, "comics" means "PRINTED STORIES TOLD PRIMARILY
 >THROUGH VISUAL IMAGERY,"

Like films, or Bosch's triptychs.

Relax!  Vote #1, rec.arts.manga.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.