HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kko@fraser.sfu.ca (Samuel Ko)
Subject: Re: The Online BookStore Announcement: The Internet Companion
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:19:08 GMT

tracy@cs.utexas.edu (Tracy LaQuey Parker) writes:

>Well, the initial reviews have been GREAT, but "The Internet Companion"
>has been on the Barnes and Noble "Top Ten" computer books list for 2 weeks
>now. (It came out November 9th.)

Yes ... Tracy's book is great especially for people without any idea of
what the Internet is ... Even though it is not as comprehensive as
Ed Krol's _The Whole Internet_, _The Internet Companion_ has enough 
material for newbies to grasp on what the Internet is, how it works and
what they can do with the Internet utilities and resources ...

>>I speak as an author of over a dozen books. A-W's marketing dept. is
>>one of the best, IMHO, and one of the hardest-working.

>Boy, WHEW!!!, am I glad to hear that!  :-) :-) :-)

Yes and No ... A-W has produced two books on the Internet within a 
short period of time ... The other one is Internet System Handbook
by Daniel Lynch and Marshall Rose ... That one is far more technical
in nature than any other books in this field ... However, I think 
the marketing dept of A-W should do some promotion on the netnews ...

--
Samuel Ko (kko@sfu.ca)
Maintaining " A Concise Guide to Unix Books " that is posted regularly
here and in unix newsgroups ...

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke)
Subject: Faludi on neurotic single men: lapse?
Organization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:50:04 GMT

In "Backlash" Susan Faludi seems at one point potentially guilty of 
the same error she uncovered in the shoddy work of others:  assuming 
that correlation implies causality.  She quotes statistics (p.17) to
show that single men are more depressed, passive, and susceptible
to nervous breakdowns; experience more nightmares, fainting, insomnia;
and in general are more neurotic than single women.  She concludes that
"the institution of marriage has an overwhelmingly salutary effect
on men's mental health."
	What I don't see is evidence to rule out the possibility
that neurotic behavior keeps you single, rather than her implicit
assumption that marriage improves mental health.  Perhaps this
evidence is in the many references she cites, and which I have not
read.  I'd appreciate clarification from anyone who knows the
statistics.
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For newbies (was:Re: Project B.F.D. (was: An apology))
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:26:32 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

Joan Shields)n writes:

	My turn to comment since I seem to have found myself somehow
	included in this clique of rab snobs (or is it snots). 

Hey, no worries Joan, we outsiders never thought you were a member of the
Inner Circle. It's obvious that there are areas that they just plain keep
you out of.

Rgds
Alan

Dance for your Daddie, my little lassie
Dance for your Daddie, my little one
You shall get a fishie on a little dishie
You shall get a fishie
When the boat comes in. 



-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@jec310.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Celebrating McGonagall
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:25:40 GMT

In article <31DEC92.18501965@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> William McGonagall (1825-1902) was one of the
|> lesser lights of Victorian poetry -- indeed, some would say, among
|> the very dimmest lights -- a handloom weaver from Dundee who styled
|> himself a Poet and Tragedian.  Those who have been exposed to his
|> deathless verse can never quite forget it.
 
 Many people have achieved immortality by the greatness of their literary
works. McGonagall, however, made what I would consider an even more difficult
distinction for himself: he achieved immortality through his works being 
utterly, irredeemably, uniformly, relentlessly BAD. Any fool can write bad
verse, but it takes a very special fool to write bad verse which will be 
remembered for all time. 
 
 I first encountered McGonagall in a delightful little book called _The 
Incomplete Book of Failures_. This collection details some of the more 
amusing blunders, mishaps and screwups of history, but it was McGonagall's
unforgettable work which lingered in my mind (the book contains his poem
"To The Rev. George Gillifan of Dundee"). When I told some of my friends
about his work, though, it seemed that a large number of them had already
encountered it. 
 
 Where _does_ his work get published? Is there a book of his poetry still
in print? Or do some English textbooks include poems of his for the sheer
amusement value? 
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:51:14 GMT


                                     Saturday, the 2nd of January, 1993

Jim Kalb writes:
  You say that Pound was "knowledgeable" and a "great artist" with
  "expertise" that you weigh highly.  You also speak of something being
  objectively "beautiful".  Does it make sense to speak that way if the
  poetic merit of a work consists solely in the likelihood that a member
  of a particular community that devotes a lot of time and attention to
  poetry would praise it?  (I take it that would be the alternative to
  saying that poetic merit is something that transcends the judgements
  of any reader or group of readers.)

I'm thinking that maybe it was unfortunate that I used the example of
Pound, and perhaps more unfortunate that I called him a ``great artist''
in the process of doing so. I don't think that the being a poet himself,
or the greatness of his poetry, are the key to my weighing his opinion
highly. I'd say it's more that he's read everything. The being a poet
I think means that the reading he has done (which is more than I have
read) has been done more carefully (i.e. I can read him criticizing a work
that I've read and I realize he gets more out of it than I do). Reading his
criticism, I think that it's clear he pays attention to more things
than most readers do (plus there's the fact that he's reading in Latin,
Greek, French, Italian, Provencal, and God knows what else). So, I'm
claiming that Pound knows more about ``literature'' than I do, ergo he's
more worth listening to about the subject than I am. He has more expertise.

My further claim was only that if there is agreement among such
experts as to what has literary merit, then I'd say there's
an objective standard of literary merit.

JK:
  I realize your chief goal was to argue against the idea that poetic
  merit can only be a matter of subjective judgement.  It seems to me
  that pointing out that it might be a matter of arbitrary community
  standards instead isn't that much of an advance.  Maybe I'm being
  overly touchy, though.

I think the point I was making is a small one indeed. More about
literary merit and beauty than Literary Merit and Beauty. But, also
that expertise counts, that when one is trying to decide what to read
next or what to assign in the classroom, it is reasonable to weigh
the opinions of experts more highly than the opinions of others who
demonstrably don't know as much.

                 Mike Morris
         (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:35:22 GMT

                                   Sunday, the 3rd of January, 1993

Curtis Yarvin writes:
  If taste were knowledge, chefs would be savants.

Oh, but I have no problem at all with your asserting that
the agreement which might be possible among a community
of experts will not necessarily be to your or my taste.
My own experience is that my taste changes, sometimes
dramatically, with increasing knowledge. It seems natural
to me, then, that people who know more about an art form than
I do will have a different taste for it.

               Mike Morris
          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: iacovou@myria.cs.umn.edu (Neophytos Iacovou)
Subject: Pulitzer Award For Fiction - 1988
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:05:12 GMT



  Hi;

  In 1988 Beloved by Toni Morrison was given a Pulitzer Prize for fiction.
  What I am trying to find out is the following, is it possible to find 
  out who else was "nominated"/"looked at" for the same award in 1988?
  Basically I want to try and find out what books Beloved "beat out".

  You can mail me any responses if you don't think the net care about
  the answer. Thanks a lot.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neophytos Iacovou                                
University of Minnesota                     email:  iacovou@cs.umn.edu 
Computer Science Department                         ...!rutgers!umn-cs!iacovou
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:42:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.185632.21898@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>Well, I've been posting off and on for years, and I'm not sure people are
>convinced of my existence.  

	I see how that would give you problems.  However, just a kindly 
meant word of advice: don't construe the world according to your personal 
psychopathology.

>I agree that a split is worse than useless, if the ones I wish to address are
>unwilling to take it seriously.  However, those who refuse to acknowledge the 
>degree of cliqueishness are fooling themselves.  I do not accuse anyone of 
>specifically shunning newcomers.  I do accuse a small group of people of 
>ignoring the fact that most of the *readers* of this group do not wish to play
>their games.

	I think I finally grasp the nature of your complaint.  People who
post to this group persist in saying what they wish despite the fact that
you do not want them to.  Also, you believe that you speak for
"the readers of this group," who, according to you, also want people
to quit saying what they wish.  

	Very interesting.  Fundamentally loony and stupid, but interesting
nonetheless.  Do tell us more.  Assuming that you still exist.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone, chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts
Reply-To: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 07:13:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.234711.1844@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <1hl902INNmi3@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>>How on earth is Chaucer "like Rabelais"? And that is pretty much my point.
>>Gargantua & Pantagruel are not on our earth. They are giant, grotesque
>>denizens of terra incognita. Contrariwise, Chaucer's Pilgrims have their 
>>feet solidly planted on terra firma. Chaucer's language is the everyday 
>>language of the folk he knew. Rabelais' language is outlandish. In any
>>case, with Chaucer living some one and a half centuries before Rabelais,
>>the notion of refering to Geoffrey Chaucer as "Rabelaisian" approaches
>>a gaffe of formidable proportions.
>
>Nevertheless, both writers relished humor grounded in farts and other
>bodily functions. And that was pretty much *my* point.
>
>
>--Mike
>
>
>
>-- 
>Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
>mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
>(617) 864-0665  |                           
>EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 


Mike, I'm growing weary of the sheer nonspecificity of your posts on this
subject.  The humor of "The Miller's Tale," for instance is not "grounded"
in farts, even though Alison's fart is one of the central *events* of the
tale.  You might consider how Chaucer gets the reader to *anticipate* a
*single* fart, rather than liberally sprinkling farts throughout the tale.
You might consider how Chaucer uses the fart to mock the hypocrisy of
Absolon, who trades upon his position in the parish to indulge in the
foppery which leads him to his fateful encounter with Alison's butt, and 
even to mock the incipient hypocrisy of Nicholas, the young scholar who,
like Absalon, may very well end up a petty Church functionary and fop
himself.  You might consider how, by having the Miller tell this tale,
Chaucer tacitly imparts a world of information about the Miller's 
irreverence and distrust towards Church officials without really having
to spell things out for us in a wordy way.  Finally, you might consider
that the *greater* humor of the story rests not with the simple letting
loose of a fart in the face, but in its exposure of the folly that
forever follows human pretention.

michael mcdonald
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Born in Bethlehem?
Organization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 00:55:58 GMT

I wrote:
>>  A. N. Wilson says in "Jesus: A Life" that it is extremely unlikely
>>  that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.  Even if one takes everything in
>>  the Bible as literally true, the birth in a stable remains pure
>>  myth.  It is not mentioned in any of the Gospels.

Mike Morris replied:
>Huh? 
>   ``And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in
>     swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was
>     no room for them in the inn.'' [Luke 2.7, King James Version]
>
>The word for ``manger'', or _phatne_, according to Liddell and Scott,
>comes probably from _pateomai_, ``to eat''. I.e., a feeding trough.

Wilson addresses this passage on p.80 of his book:
	"To Luke we owe the charming detail that when Jesus had
	been born, his mother laid him in a manger, though the
	idea that Jesus was born in a stable belongs to folk-tale
	rather than to the New Testament.  Luke says that Mary laid 
	her first-born son in a manger since there was no place
	(*topos*) in the *kataluma*.  This is a Greek word which more 
	often means 'room' than 'inn.'  Luke never states that
	Mary and Joseph were staying at an inn, still less an inn
	where there was no room for them, still less that they were
	therefore obliged to sleep that night in a stable.  He merely
	says that the particular room in which Jesus was born did
	not have a cradle in it.  One is presumably meant to 
	understand that someone improvised, bringing a feeding-box 
	for animals into the room, as a substitute for a cradle." 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: heidi@wales.net.com (Heidi Wolf)
Subject: Re: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Summary: local highway-beautification suggestions
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:58:26 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec24112625@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I think the statue on Interstate 280 south of San Francisco should be
>returned to Easter Island.


...and that bizarre humpy house a few miles up the road should be
returned to the deserts of Mars whence it came.

Heidi Wolf


P.S.  I agree with Prof. McCarthy that it's not a very attractive
      statue, but I'm quite fond of Fra Junipero Serra and therefore
      am willing to put up with this rather kitschy interpretation.

      [Book reference:  I've been reading NAMES ON THE LAND by George
       Stewart, published originally in the 1940s, per a recommendation
       in a book of essays by Wallace Stegner.  I'm at the beginning 
       of the book right now, trekking up the California coast with
       the early Spanish explorers.  Next we travel up the Eastern
       Seaboard with some Englishmen, and subsequently across the
       Great Plains with pioneers of every nationality and era.
       A good pick-up-and-put-down book for those like me who want  
       something enjoyable but undemanding after the holiday whirl.]
From: bhahn@sw.stratus.com (Bill Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: K. Lorenz (Was Re: non-fiction reading)
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:10:47 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: oldno7.sw.stratus.com

A. Chaiken writes:
>and that the essay he wrote about
>dogs being divided into wolfs and hyenas was used as eugenics
>propaganda in the WWII era.

For some bitter comments about that essay, listen to some of
Daniel Pinkwater's old commentaries on National Public Radio.  (cf the
tape "Of Dogs and Men" from Dove Audio.)  I remember him using
words like "teutonic fairy-tale" and "too much kirsch-water" to
describe and explain Lorenz' theory.

-- 
Bill Hahn               bhahn@sw.stratus.com
Stratus Computer        "Meetings are places where minutes are kept
Marlboro, MA, USA        and hours are lost." From V. Weisskopf's memoirs.
--------- These are my opinions and not necessarily those of Stratus.------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Subject: Re: lemurs in literature
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:51:23 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <BzoDuA.4z1@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
>In article <Bzo70E.IEB@ns1.nodak.edu> hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael
>J. Hennebry) writes:
>>My recollection is that lemurs figured prominately in Alan Dean Foster's
>>Spellsinger, the first half of a 2-volume work that ends with The Hour
>>of the Gate.
>
>What did said lemurs do?  Were they represented as avatars of a higher
>awareness or something?

My recollection is that they and their eagle roommates helped Our Heros
out of a jam. They were in dire need of a path to warmer weather and
to the title gate.

BTW Our Heros included Clothahump the Wizard, Jon-tom the title
spellsinger, and Mudge the walking gonads. Their respective species
were turtle, human, and otter. There was also a spider whose name
I forget, but should also be included in Our Heros. I don't remember
if the rabbit was with them at this time.

BTW this newsreader chokes on newsgroups that it doesn't know about.
I don't know if there is an alt.fan.lemurs, but I had to remove it
from the newsgroups list.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I myself have had to change banks having filled the first one up."
                                                            Terry Pratchett
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: The Planiverse
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:49:35 GMT

I believe someone mentioned A.K. Dewdney's The_Planiverse not
long ago, whether on r.a.b or not I don't recall. Anyway, I happened
to see it for $1 among some remaindered computer books ( It's
subtitled COMPUTER CONTACT WITH A TWO_DIMENSIONAL WORLD ) and I
snapped it right up. I don't know what was keeping me from it
in the interval since it's been published, since I raved
over Flatland in high school. Maybe I thought Flatland couldn't
be topped, or something.  Dewdney really does it with this one,
though. In his acknowledgments he mentions "crucial suggestions
which made all the difference between a merely good book and one
which we all hope is excellent." I say this is more than a book,
it's a creation.

I expected it to be merely a vehicle for the technical speculations,
but instead the firmly grounded details form the basis for a
truly engaging narrative. I have to say reading this really affected
my mind, so that after reading a while, then getting up and walking
around, the familiar 3-d world seemed astonishing and precarious.

Another thing I liked was the computer contact device in the
university setting. This set up a lot of cross connections, and in
fact I think this book sort of lays right down on the bed of
Procrustes, as it were. For what is the Planiverse ( plain verse )
if not the printed page ?  And what is "the Presence" other than
the author? From here you can just plug it into your favorite
deconstructor set. I will add that some of the narrator's
interviews must have been similar to some of the author's
real life conversations regarding his devotion to his sideline.

The ending owes a lot to Flatland, in that we haughty 3-d-ers
get a comeuppance of sorts. Here again, though, Dewdney goes
well beyond his precedent. 

One technical point: the author takes pains to outline a 2-d
nerve crossing to overcome the objections that connectivity
can't be accomplished in 2-d, but the real problem is
size, or number really. It's well noted in the narrative how
much simpler and reduced 2-d life is, yet the denizens are
implied to live full 3-d style inner lives. The 2-d brain
brain obviously couldn't provide a sufficient substratum for
this, connectivity or no. On the other hand, the mere fact that
I make such an objection just shows how far I got sucked in.

Another thing: our 2-d hero is named YNDRD, pronounced
Yendred, and early on it is suggested in the narrative that
the name might be produced from "a systematic bit error" on
the ascii of some other five-letter word. It makes a cryptogram
of THESE or WHERE, but I don't know if there's anything behind
this little tease. An in-joke, perhaps ?

Lew Mammel, Jr.
From: jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan R. Ferro)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 3 Jan 93 00:58:30 GMT
	<1992Dec31.211619.5635@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
> Speaking of which, another test of biblioholism is: Do you spend more
> time planning what books to take on a trip than what clothes?

I have annoyed sales clerks by insisting on test-fitting 450-page
paperbacks into all the pockets of suit jackets before actually trying
them on or allowing any other tailoring marks to be made...

-- Jon Ferro               Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wits and Half-Wits
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:16:40 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu quoted Tom Maddox:
> I'm much more concerned with whether people are being interesting, witty,
> enlightening, provocative.  In short, when it comes to public exchanges of
> the written word, I would hold up Oscar Wilde or Dorothy Parker as exemplars
> rather than Miss Manners.  

I'd hold them up as exemplars, too.  People who produced a small output
with every superfluous word excised.  I suspect that Parker's collected
short stories amount to fewer words than some posters put out here in a
year.

But the real muse of Usenet is Thomas Wolfe.  To be precise, Thomas Wolfe
without a counterbalancing Maxwell Perkins.  The Wolfe who was once found
wandering round the docks at dawn shouting to the stars "I WROTE THIRTY
THOUSAND WORDS TODAY!".

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp