From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia,alt.athiesm,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Faith in the Word (Healing)
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:59:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

nyarko@ee.ualberta.ca (David Nyarko) wrote:

> My
> belief is that lack of faith is not the only issue involved here as
> some people have tried to explain. For example Paul said he had a thorn
> in the flesh (some people have said it was a sickness and others that it
> was not).

Some have suggested it was his wife!! I agree with the majority though
that it was some kind of physical ailment.

> However we know that he prayed 3 times which tells me that 
> whatever it was, he would not have prayed if he knew it was not God's
> provision for him. We note that God DID ANSWER as to why this thorn
> would be with him (2 Corinth 12: 7-10). 

Now this answer, it seems to me, is crucial in our understanding, for 
God said "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect
in weakness."

This to me is a wonderful passage, because it tells me that people who 
are physically ill, weak or disabled are an incredibly important part 
of God's plan * as they are *. 

If God's will is to heal them then they will be healed, but if they 
are not healed then God has plans for them just as they are.

There is a subtle deception which I see in healing meetings and rallies, 
which is to say that only the strong and the fit may be used of God, 
and that those who are not strong and fit should pray to be so, for 
that is how God wants them. Such a view is dangerous in the extreme.

When I look at the * active * members of our church, those most 
used of God, I see that perhaps a quarter of them are long term 
ill or disabled. These people have learned the truth of those words
"My grace is sufficient for you".

Bear in mind that only about one in twenty members of the church are 
long term sick/disabled (if as much as that), and you see that these
people are shaming the fit people of the church.

> In James 5:14-16, we see
> physical sickness being talked about a unique thing here is that
> this physical healing mentioned here also mentions the forgiveness
> of sins too.

Well certainly sin and sickness are interlinked, for it was through 
sin that sickness entered the world. It seems natural to attend to 
the spiritual welfare of a very sick man as well as to his physical 
welfare.

> The story of Achan's sin
> is one that explains why something could prevent God's desire
> from being manifest because God is just. Achan's sin (Joshua 7)
> by taking that accursed thing prevented Israel from defeating
> their enemies (Josh. 7: 13). 

I don't have a Bible with me but I am fairly sure this is the battle 
of Ai. Achan broke God's covenant with Israel by taking of the spoil 
of the battle (which was forbidden by the law of Moses). In this case
God was opposed to Israel for through the sin of one man the whole 
nation was defiled and some men were killed in what appeared to be 
a very easy battle.

Now I can see a lot of lessons in this incident (the need to keep 
our motives and actions pure when working for the Lord is one. Another
might be the fact that our sins affect not only ourselves but others 
also), but I fail to see how the incident relates to physical 
healing. God has not said to us "When you live a sanctified and 
consecrated life then you will be physically whole". Achan broke a 
covenant with God and there is no parallel to physical healing.

> Could you please explain the
> difference between "claiming" and "pleading" the promises ?

When I claim something I say "By rights this thing belongs to me, 
give it to me." 

However, I believe that we have no rights, and all of God's provision 
is given to us by grace. That being the case, when I see a promise 
in scripture which does not seem to be fulfilled in my life my 
correct recourse is to say:

"God, I know your word says this and this, and I see that in my time 
it is not happening. Father, if it be your will, do this again in 
our time/my life."

I think the difference is summed up in one word: attitude.

> I have heard a number of people say a lot of things regarding
> faith especially regarding healing. I believe that if I have
> a sickness and someone askes me, I will say for example I
> have this swelling but I'm believing God for my healing, according
> to his word, or join me in praying for it (James 5: 14-16). Or
> God'd word says I have been healed so I believe it will be 
> manifest now or soon or whenever or words to that effect.

It is this last sentence that troubles me. God's word did not say 
my hand was healed. Man's interpretation of his word said so, but 
His word did not.

And in point of fact it was not healed. It is healed now through 
natural means (created by God of course), but there was no 
supernatural healing. That is plain fact.

> I stand corrected, but I believe not all the healings of
> Jesus Christ were instantaneous for example the case of the
> 10 lepers in Luke 17:12-19. The lepers were healed as they
> were going. 

And also the man who saw "men as trees walking", but both these two 
healings served an illustrative purpose (more on that another time 
maybe). It was certainly the accepted norm to receive instantaneous 
healing when Christ chose to heal someone.

> But healing now or not, we still have to fight the good fight
> the new testament mentions.
> That's the fight of Faith (1 Tim 6: 12).
> 
Now with that I can agree wholeheartedly.

> 		All the best,
> 		David

Pob Hwyl,
  Stephen.
-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU