HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Handicapping Crown List
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:53:51 GMT

There is a chance that Royalty will descend on our (smallish) event, if
the new Crown Prince & princess are from around the Indiana region.
Since I am cooking the feast, I fell to speculating on the odds that we
might have royalty and I might have to do something really spiffy for
the head table.

	So, I started to figure out who might win Crown. I quickly
abandoned the excercise because it seemed too complex. 

	My question is how WOULD you go about predicting the odds on a
given fighter in a tourney (for recreational purposes only ;}). I'm sure
that somebody has done it before.

Thanks in advance,

Lothar

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: Stolen armor (was Re: Twcs' helm)
Reply-To: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:54:45 GMT

Where does it go?

Recently Baroness Domenica had her coronet stolen from
the back of her truck along with some truly beautiful and
sentimental garb of two Peers that were traveling with her.

So where does one fence or use a braided, gold-wire cronet?

Aoghann

-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pickup Trucks (was Re: regalia trailer)
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:51:23 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Vashti of the Flaming Tresses writes:
> Ansteorran monarchs often have pickup trucks, or friends in their 
> entourage with pickup trucks, 

I've noticed that here in the East.  At a demo at a school, I made the comment 
that you could tell which vehicles in the parking lot belonged to fighters, 
all the pickups and vans.  Lord Madog, who was in Atlantia while in the Army, 
said that in Atlantia, you could skip the phrase 'and vans'.  If you don't 
have a pickup, you ain't a _real_ fighter.  How is it in the other 10 kingdoms?

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Pirates of the Carribean Event - Dec 12 - Rhydderich Hael - Write for details.
From: snolan@postmaster@hq.af.mil (Scott D Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:09:53 GMT
Reply-To: snolan@marge.hq.af.mil
Organization: 7th Communications Group

In article <BvpMuC.K1I@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>, ross@chem.queensu.ca (Ross Dickson) writes: 
|> Having said that, I will now place myself firmly in the camp that says,
|> "Different strokes for different folks."  Some baronies would no doubt
|> prefer their leadership to have the benefit and aura of long experience.
|> Some would no doubt prefer that they don't have to get out the knives to
|> get rid of their leadership when they are tired of them.  I say let the
|> baronies decide for themselves.  Consequently, make no law on the matter!
|> 
|> Angus Mackintosh /  Ross M. Dickson, ross@chem.queensu.ca
|>   

I agree heartily.  I have been active in two groups of the SCA, one in
the Barony of the Far West, and here in Storvik and Ponte Alto.  I
have discovered that the positions have (legitimately) very different
requirements depending on the group.

The Far West was so far from most of the West Kingdom, that the Barony
became a "Palatine Barony", the Baron/Baroness was chosen every 6
months by combat at arms like a crown tourney.  This worked well, it
allowed the different groups to each have a baronial head in their
canton fairly regularly, and no one term was very long (a good thing
where most people are in the Far West for only 2 - 4 years).  It also
meant that there was more communication between the cantons, which
each act as an autonomous group because of the THOUSANDS of miles
between them (Far West stretches from Diego Garcia to Guam, and from
the Phillipines to Northern Japan).  The regular Baronial investitures
became a good way to meet the residents of other cantons.

Storvik has none of those problems/advantages.  All of the Barony is
within a 45 minute drive (except during some rush hours), and the
people get together regularly outside of the SCA.  Some enjoyed the
very long term of our barons, because it provided stability, others
fretted under long terms for reasons mentioned on this group.  The
decision was made at the kingdom level to have limited terms, and
limited numbers of terms.  I disagree strongly, I think each Barony
should decide it's own way here.  Each location has it's own peculiar
needs, and the soveriegn always has final say over the approval of the
Baron/Baroness anyway.

Just my flemming.
Duncan Tiercel MacLeod
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald's future
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:30:11 GMT

I had written:
  My correspondence with members in Drachenwald, and my reading of the
  Drachenwald mailing list shows that no petion has been circulated.
  Neither the April nor July Board meeting minutes show any discussion of
  the issue...

The petition has just been mailed, and the response deadline is the
end of October.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:40:26 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: home.merit.edu
Keywords: minors releases

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.043544.1059@egf-bbs.uucp> aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy) writes:
>>At Our last event (the second we've held) a number of people came from an
>>incipient group about 100 miles away.  The attendees consisted ofone adult
>>and half a dozen or so teen-agers (14 to 17), none of whom had a release
>>signed by their parents.  

>Welsome to the wonderful world of nightmares....

>>What do you do in a case like that?  Tell them,
>>Sorry, you drove 2 hours for nothing?  

>That's waht your're *supposed* to do.

Excuse me, but where was the "responsible" adult who was the cause 
of driving these folks to the event? I have several times taken
teens to events (girls, granted) because I wanted to 
"foster" them at the event rather than just making them wander around,
and believe you me I had to swear to their parents I'd be responsible
for their behavior and safety? Did anyone talk to the adult who
brought them? *that* gentle should have been responsible for minding
his charges.
 
We need some way to bring teens into the SCA in a positive way: Forcing
them to go away until their parents come, they grow up, and/or the
world ends (;-) ) would have lost the Middle Kingdom some of the finest
people I know.
  
And it would also mean that people in our household couldn't take our
daughter to events we can't attend. A loss, in my book.


 I remain, in service,
 
  siobhan
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke                Pat McGregor
       Shire Cynnabar, Middle Kingdom         3638 Greenook Blvd
                                              Ann Arbor, MI 48103-9143
       patmcg@merit.edu     
       smor@um.cc.umich.edu                   (313) 426-3506
       UserW02V@umichum.bitnet
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: elf ears r us
Date: 8 Oct 1992 19:29:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <718564033.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best) writes:

[he met a dimbulb who was playing Star Trek in the middle of a tourney...]
>
>    I put as much controlled, precise, military anger into my face and voice as
>I could. I said "Then obey the goddam Prime Directive! If I hear of you
>breaking cover again, for any reason, I'll have your ass out of Starfleet
>so fast they'll have to send the rest of you by shuttle." 

Bravo!

Wish I had been there to see it.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Voting for Board members (was Re: On Barons and Membership)
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:59:01 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <1992Oct07.192117.25896@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
>Path: utkux1.utk.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!watson!siena.watson.ibm.com!mittle
>From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
>Subject: Voting for Board members (was Re: On Barons and Membership)
>Sender: @watson.ibm.com
>Message-ID: <1992Oct07.192117.25896@watson.ibm.com>
>Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 19:21:17 GMT
>References:  <1992Oct7.180005.12096@pbhya.PacBell.COM>
>Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
>Lines: 21
>Greetings from Arval!  Hal wrote:
>
>> ...if the BoD wants to have some privelege that means something, they
>> could allow members to vote on BoD members.
>
>I asked the Chairman about this possibility, and she gave me an explanation
>that I'd never heard before.  The SCA, Inc. is incorporated in California
>as a non-membership corporation; the directors are the only legal members
>of the corporation.  According to the Chairman, Calif. law forbids the
>corporation from holding elections of the dues-paying members to select
>directors or to settle any other issue.  She says that we could
>re-incorporate as a membership corporation, but that would require that
>virtually any substantive decisions be put to a vote of the dues-paying
>membership.  She told me that she believes that the law allows no
>intermediate possibility.
>
>It seems strange to me that California law offers us such an all-or-nothing
>proposition; I'd love to hear a qualified opinion on the subject.
>

Seems strange to me too.  I don't know squat about California Law, but I 
know that there are a load of corporations that don't require polls of all 
voting members.

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Garb Research
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:44:53 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering


Aison asked:
> A request: I was doing some garb research yesterday, when I found an
> illumination of Christine de Pisan writing at her desk, wearing a low-cut,
> form-fitted cotehardie. The decolettage appeared to be covered with white
> lace or netting (what was mostly visible, against the pale skin, was evenly
> spaced little white dots, which seemed to be connected by a network of fine
> lines), which was fastened at the throat with a fairly opaque white (lace?)
> band. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing before? is it lace, or is it
> something else? The illumination is 15th century, so whatever is portrayed
> is theoretically period.

If it looks like lace, then is probably is lace, but the question is 'What
kind of lace?'

15th century is much too early for a bobbin lace gauze. All of the bobbin
lace patterns that I have seen were 16th century and were braid based
chains. The same look is achieved by needle laces, so I would discount that
style too.

The expanse makes it unlikely to have been either pulled or drawn thread
work.

The obvious candidate is a net lace. Net lace is created by making a fine
fish net and then using needle lace techniques to decorate it. Since I never
had any success at making fish nets, I have neither tried nor researched
this technique. However, it is the only lace form that I know of that would
produce the reported appearance at the time in question. The neck band would
be necessary to prevent the net from collapsing, which suggests that this is
a correct analysis. The neck band would not, under these conditions be lace but
a light gauze.

	Fiacha, speaking as a journeyman lacemaker
	Aqauterra, AnTir
From: patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Strict Membership Silliness
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:00:27 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: home.merit.edu

Re:publishing information to the local populace in order to
have insurance benefits.
 
We went over this issue exhaustively and sickeningly when  we 
crafted the first draft of the Publications policy. We finally
decided that "publication" could include announcement in local meetings,
a listing in the local news-sheet, and/or notification of an appropriate
office.  
 
This last would cover impromptu archery practice, etc.
 

 siobhan
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke                Pat McGregor
       Shire Cynnabar, Middle Kingdom         3638 Greenook Blvd
                                              Ann Arbor, MI 48103-9143
       patmcg@merit.edu     
       smor@um.cc.umich.edu                   (313) 426-3506
       UserW02V@umichum.bitnet
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: poem (vaguely Norse and 392 years OOP)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:45:00 GMT

Tyr and the Wolf

The dwarves, slow  in a sweat of death
carry the chain  toward black horror
bristling like a furred  and forest thing;
fanged gape  like a hole in the world
wearing a wolf-cloak;  slow in pride
for the broken ropes  chains that held
but brief and broke  against his strength
sees six dwarves  in slow strife
with a thread, balks,  growls like the sea.

The wolf not witless  no more a game
this strength-play  will light look on
demands a faith -pledge;  wordless then
far seeing Tyr  with pale set eyes
His right hand lays  withing the jaws.
Half disbelieving  Fenrir halts
stands stone still  as round his neck
three dwarves cast  the thread thin chain.
Round the rock  the bight end reeves,
bone of Ymir  bonds of the Earth.
Glepnir's got him;  the dwarves dart back.
Rage-mad Fenrir  leaps away
the chain rings  but rock remains.
Bent necked bides the wolf.

Gaunt he grows  with the world uneaten
froths and howls,  rolls red eyes
orders all about  in rank of eating
for when - the mad eyes know -
the rock will rip,  the chain come free.

Tyr's lone hand  his forearm clamps
better to bind  bright blood inside
sees from a set face  shut with pain
thin strands and stronger  Urthr's weaving
the bright bridge bloodied,  broke, and smoking
the unbound wolf  glutted with Odin.


Mothi toddles,  teethes on rocks
spits new sand,  laughs infant glee
sees a serpent's  broken writhing
watching the wolf  twist and howl.



Copyright 1992 by Graydon Saunders.  Permission granted for single
printings in SCA publications with attribution and this notice; permision
explicitly denied for use in performance.  (You wanna swap poems, send
me one and I'll tell you what I think.)   Newsletter editors desperate
enough to use it, I'd appreciate hearing about where.
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Games and Viking nights...
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:08:02

 DS>  On the other hand, the gamers can easily fit within the
 DS> medieval world the SCA creates by limiting their gaming conversation
 DS> to those games that may have existed in period.  While I suspect AD&D
 True.  It's the conversation that's the biggest stumbling block.  
 Actually, out here in Ansteorra we hold "Quests", which are about the 
 closest to gaming.  No dice involved, though, and when it's over, no 
 levels are accrued, except personal experience.
...
 DS>  Alright, it can look fairly stupid too.  Somehow, though, I
 DS> can see Erik the Red and Leif Eriksson having this conversation during
 DS> those cold northern winters.
 Ummmmmm..... Not.  I thought they mended armor, sharpened swords, got 
 blind drunk and made up Loki-stories and top-of-the-head poetry, myself.      Gwenllian Cwmystywyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Corpora availability
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:05:19 GMT

I thought you all deserved an update on the electronic Corpora
project.

I have it on disk, and converted from WordPerfect to Ascii.
Along the way, the conversion made a real mess of the formatting,
but I think I know how to correct that. [1]  Now that some other
home-based computing projects are finished, I will try to devote
some time to getting the conversion done.

But, that's not the real problem.  The real problem is the
copyright notice which I was given, wasn't quite crafted with
FTP access in mind, and doesn't permit it.  Hilary and I have
discussed this, and we do have a very good meeting of the minds
on the topic. However, until I write the copyright notice that
I want, and she approves it, things are not ready.

Since the Board will be in Carolingia this weekend, I hope to
have a new copyright notice ready for next week, and to get
the conversion process in high gear.  In the mean time, I am
permitted to quote from it in postings to the net (via permission
*I* have in the cover letter with the disk, from Hilary).

Below my signature is the copyright notice as I received it from
Hilary.  All comments welcome, privately or publically. The problem
as I perceive it, is that I cannot guarantee that only members will
read it, or make copies.

	Tibor

[1] It seems that WordPerfect does the line by line conversion based
    upon the characters that appear in each line. Since the fonts
    used vary wildly as to how many characters appear on each line,
    I need to edit the original to put it into a fixed width font
    such as Courier, turn off kerning (perhaps as well), and then
    do the conversion again.  If I'm wrong, a quick note would
    be appreciated.

Hilary's copyright notice: (which does not apply to this posting, OK?)
(c) Copyright 1989, 1991, 1992 -- The Society for Creative Anachronism,
    Incorporated.

     Members of the Society for Creative Anachronism may copy and
distribute this document to other members of the Society so long as
copyright credit is given and no changes are made in the text.  

     The governing version of this document is the SCA ORGANIZATIONAL
HANDBOOK, published 1989, and the official update sheets released
subsequently.  Printed copies are available from the SCA Stock Clerk,
P.O. Box 360743, Milpitas CA 95036, for $3.50. Any disputes over the
actual content of the document will be decided in favor of the printed
version.
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 1992 00:51:42 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Landed Baronage Thoughts

Greetings good gentles
from a rather busier 'poppa' Bertram --

For those who have asked, little Elizabeth Kori is doing great!
She's sleeping closer to three and a half than three hours at a
stretch at night, and today had her first taste of mother's milk
delivered by daddy-plus-a-bottle (an essential, since Eromene will
be going back to work half time soon) and is, generally, a much
better baby than I had any right to expect...

That being said (forgive the proud father his excesses), I'd like
to offer a few thoughts on the Landed Baronage debate.

Perhaps what is needed is not a fixed and rule-bound TERM limit for
barons and baronesses, but a fixed, rule-bound, and Society-wide
acceptable method for REMOVING barons and/or baronesses who no
longer have the support of the majority of their people and 
who are too out of touch or insensitive to realize that fact.

I believe that a formal 'vote of no confidence' procedure
might be one way to solve the problem.  The details could
be hammered out at length, but in practice a formal 'vote
of no confidence' could be proposed by petition of some
substantial fraction of a barony's population (20-33%)
which would then trigger a full barony-wide polling.
If the current baron and/or baroness could not 
command some much higher level of support (51-66%)
then the current baron/ess would be required to step
down and the kingdom's customary replacement process
would go into effect.

This method provides SOME way to remove barons and
baronesses who just aren't cutting it any more,
OVER their objections, provided the majority
of the people in the barony wish it so.
It also lets baronies recover from mistakes
that are clearly mistakes SOONER rather than later. 
(Joe is made baron; Joe starts acting like a pompous 
ass alienating everyone; Joe loses a vote of confidence 
held as soon as he's ticked off enough people.)

I'd welcome comments on this proposal -- either to
strengthen it or to point out its flaws.  All things
considered I'd much rather have an 'exception procedure'
that's acceptable across the Society than attempt to force
every barony in the Known World to cope with uniform term limits.

Take care, good friends...

My best -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: peterd@polari.online.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA description
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:42:09 GMT
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)

cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano) writes:

>In article <9209301734.AA08403@math.bu.edu>, jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
>|> 
>|> Here's a thought for the one-line description of the SCA: 
>|> 
>|> 	The SCA -- interactive historical fiction
>|> 
>|> Comments?

>I like the way the FBI classifies the SCA, "A para-military organization".

As a member in some form of standing (Leaning?) in MacFlandry's Household
Troop, and thus with some aquantance with the SCA Martial Prowess,
one would think that we ought be classified as "a quasi para-military
organization."  (So why is our response to the harolds instructions to take
our position "Lock and Load"?)

BTW I like "SCA as interactive historical fiction."

chus
Nikolai Petrovich Flandrovoff


>:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

>Euriol

-- 
                 Peter D. Hampe, EKA peterd@polari.online.com
Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow. "Its a simple procedure involving Lasers."
                       Will be President for Food.