HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:17:33 GMT

In article <2271@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok):
>
>>true, but i don't think that was Thomas's point. the question was
>>rather "how much more valuable than an average 1B is a 1B who slugs
>>50 points higher than average?" vs the same for a shortstop. 
>
>But this is the same question.  Regardless of defensive position played, 
>being x points of OPS above the league average at that position will contribute
>the same number of marginal wins to the team record.

Is it?  Let's take a sport where there are two positions, call them
1B and SS.  The talent distributions are as follows:

1B: +250, +220, +150, +100, +100, +50, +50, -20, 16 x -50, 2 x -100
SS: +200, +40, 24 x -10

If you have the first and fourth draft-picks, do you take the top 
first-baseman or the top shortstop?
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Subject: Re: Misc. GABSB Observations
Reply-To: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:19:38 GMT

I got my copy of the book last night -- it's a good one.

Here's what absolutely blew me away:

In 1987, Juan Bell hit ****47**** home runs in the minors!  

****47****!

I'd say it louder, if I could...

I know all about the year of the rabbit ball, but ain't no ball what hits 47
home runs off a 2 HR bat.  

Is this why he went in a trade for Eddie Murray?

Is this why the Phillies (those bastions of player evaluations) protected him 
from the expansion draft? 

Is this a typo?

I gotta know.

-Tom.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Brewhas intereseted in Brunansky?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:10:09 GMT

In article <1k6ei0INN6b8@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>I heard on the local news last night that Milwaukee was interested in
>signing Tom Brunansky. 

We'll be happy to give you him for Eldred.

Ted "what do you mean by 'we', kemosabe?" Frank
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:55:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.132431.24404@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
>
>
>The following odds chart appeared today in the Toronto Star, and represents
>the odds listed by the Flamingo Hotel sports book in Laughlin, Nev. The
>odds represent the odds to win the 1993 WS:

And Roger wonders why statheads don't gamble?  If the game is fair,
then the odds should sum to 1.  The odds listed sum to about 2.
Double the payback on all of the below bets, and it should be easy
enough to make money...  But when they are stacked 2:1 against you?

Cheers,
-Valentine

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Followup-To: soc.
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:11:45 GMT

In article <11808@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> pepke@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>Let's take a hypothetical world.  In this world, there are men's and women's
>sports.  Both men and women reporters are allowed full access to men's locker
>rooms in men's sports.  No reporter of any kind, male, female, or 
>hermaphrodite, is allowed any access to women's locker rooms in women's 
>sports.  Assume different orgranizations control each sport.
>
>Would this constitute equal access according to your definition?  

Yes.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: cc007001@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Followup to TWO topix....
Date: 28 Jan 93 09:06:03 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <21892@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary King's X Huckabay) writes:
> Perry@mte.ncsu.edu (Bill Perry) writes:
>> I do think though that they need to do something with Jordan, for both his
>>and the phils sake.  He has been wasting away on the bench, and he would make a
>>fine DH in the AL. 
> 
> Have you been dipping into Lou Gorman's stash, man?  Ricky Jordan has never
> hit....can't hit....and won't hit.
> 

Gary, I think you are a bit hard on Jordan.  He may not be a great full-time
hitter, but he has hit pretty good against lefties over the past 2 years.
Perhaps a platoon DH.

His numbers vs. LHP:

1991    310/338/500
1992    371/372/523

Doug Saunders
Commissioner, Internet Baseball League (PTP)
Owner, Northern West Virginia Phantoms
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shimkus@athena.cs.uga.edu (Doc)
Subject: Braves signing...
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:22:40 GMT

I havent seen this on the net yet, so......

According to the Atlanta Journal/Constitution today (Saturday, 1/23), The 
Atlanta Braves have signed free agent picher Jay Howell to a minor league
contract.   The contract is non-garranteed and is full of incentives if Howell
makes the team in spring training, etc.

Comments?   Personally, i have always liked Howell, even if he DID play for the
dodgers. :)  over the last 5 years, he has put up an era  of about 2.05 or 2.10.
If he is healthy, it could be a good sign for the Braves bullpen.  :)

+doc

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Whitaker
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:27:26 GMT

In article <1k4b0dINNt89@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) writes:
>>As for durability, he only played 153 games or more once in his
>>career.  We can probably also give him the 1981 strike year when he
>>played 109 games.  Sandberg has played less than 153 games only once,
>>1987, when he played 132.  I don't know how long Sparky has been sitting
>>Whitaker against LHP, but I'd still give Sandberg the durability nod.
>
>Point taken,  although I'm still inclined to view Whitaker's PA's as
>more a function of Sparky's managing style.  It started out with Sparky
>benching Lou against "tough" lefties, but as soon as the Tigers signed
>Tony Phillips, I think Lou has started only 1 or 2 games a year against
>lefties.  

In 1991, Whitaker had 112 AB+BB against LHP.
In 1992, Whitaker had 77 AB+BB against LHP (and hit 355/481/548).

Ok, I can see Whitaker resting against tough lefties, but you don't
pile up that many PA starting one or two games a year against LHP.

At any rate, that still cuts against Whitaker.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: jbn@photon.com (Joe Naiman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Personal areas and the Berra diaper story
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:11:20 GMT
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Now that we're discussing personal areas in this newsgroup, maybe someone
can enhance my recollection of the Yogi Berra story about his baby.

Yogi asked veteran father Jimmy Piersall for advice on changing diapers.
I believe that Jimmy instructed Yogi to think of the diaper as a baseball
diamond, and to connect home to second and first to third (correct me if
you know I'm wrong).

I forget Yogi's response; it might have had something to do with a wet
mound, but does anyone remember any additional details of this story?

Joe Naiman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sandoval@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: AVERAGE/GOOD values...
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:20:40 GMT

> In article <1993Jan21.225611.6859@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
> It's no longer at home, so here are the numbers for the averages at each
> position in each league.  (The Great American Baseball Stat Book 1992)
> 
> 1991
> 
> AL
> Pos	BA	OBA	SA
> c	.252	.307	.374
> 1b	.264	.344	.417
> 2b	.268	.338	.365
> 3b	.259	.328	.388
> ss	.255	.310	.352
> lf	.261	.331	.398
> cf	.272	.332	.405
> rf	.258	.325	.436
> 
> NL
> c	.243	.305	.352
> 1b	.267	.341	.411
> 2b	.258	.334	.371
> 3b	.264	.324	.408
> ss	.256	.314	.361
> lf	.260	.330	.378
> cf	.260	.330	.378
> rf	.268	.334	.422
> 
> Sherri Nichols
> snichols@adobe.com
> 
 
   Sherri,

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)

    John

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: AVERAGE/GOOD values...
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:56:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.115544.1@stsci.edu> sandoval@stsci.edu writes:
>   What are the AVERAGE avg/obp/slg values for each position?
>That is, what are the values that are adequate?  And, as a
>followup, what are the values that are GOOD, or well above
>average?  

My reference which has this is at home right now, but as a start, I can
tell you that league averages for OBA and SLG are usually around .320/.380
in the NL and .330/.400 in the AL.  But I really posted to tell you a
reference which has this sort of thing: _The Great American Baseball Stat
Book_, by Gary Gillette.  He published one last year, and I believe he'll
be publishing one this year, too.  It's paperback, and under $20, I
believe.  

(I make no money off this book, but I do have an interest in seeing it
continue: I get my raw play-by-play data from Gillette, and as long as the
book sells, he'll have enough money to keep collecting it, which means I'll
be able to continue doing DA stuff).  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: The Jesse & Marge Show
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:27:12 GMT

In article <21JAN199311094468@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:
>>I still fail to see the hypocrisy in *failing* to speak out
>>against one and speaking out against the other.  Had he actively spoken out
>>*against* the Japanese purchase, you might have an argument.
>
>Who cares whether I have an argument or not?  I'm not trying to convert
>anyone to my point of view - just stating that such a point of view exists
>and must be taken into consideration when deciding action.

Lots of points of view exist.  Part of how we determine which points of
view are important to take into consideraction in deciding action is based
on the validity of those points of view.  If you can't make an argument for
that point of view, if you can't back it up, then it's of less importance.

>>I also recognize that the people who want to use Jackson's failings as 
>>an excuse to ignore the problem will find almost any other excuse to 
>>ignore the problem if Jackson weren't involved.
>
>That's as may be, and we can do very little about that.

I think that by focusing on Jackson helps such a point of view.
My point in all of this is that Jackson's failings are irrelevant to the
issue of whether baseball has a racism problem and what should be done
about.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Js Need for LH SP (Was Schofield...)
Organization: Pitzer College
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:36:58 GMT

In article <C1A8M4.Dp3@news2.cis.umn.edu> thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:
>In article <kbanaian.189.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu> kbanaian@bernard.

>>I really hope the Expos and Jays aren't this foolish.  It is very easy to 
>>cover yourself against exchange rate changes by buying a futures contract of 
>>US dollars, and thus lock in the exchange rate.  I would hazard a guess that 
>>the Jays lost no such money.  If they have, Doc Palmer and I would be more 
>>than happy to serve as economic consultants to rectify this problem.  (For, 
>>say, 10% of the covered amount?)
>
>You can do this on a short-term basis, and weather a short spell of bad
>exchange rates, for a price.  For the long run, the Jays and Expos will
>get large chunks of Canadian money, and pay out large chunks of US
>money, and there's limits to how much insurance they can buy (or afford).
>
I agree that it is more costly to cover long-term contracts.  How the Jays 
will cover the last year of Carter's contract is difficult.  But the forward 
market and futures market would have no difficulty with a two-year horizon, 
and longer forward market hedging is probably available (albeit it at a 
fairly stiff premium).  Moreover, since that cost is known in advance, they 
will factor the premium into Carter's contract and thus reduce the offer 
they make to him.  The exchange rate risk is assigned in the contract for 
Joe's services, just as it would be if the U.S. were exporting oranges to 
Canada.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:13:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.234242.2030@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.152627.1@ualr.edu> ajsmith@ualr.edu writes:
>>In article <1993Jan21.132431.24404@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
>>> Team		Odds
>>> ----		----
>>> 
>>> Atlanta		3:1
>>Rightly so the opening's odds on favorite to take it all.
>
>Boy is that statement chock-full of errors.
>
>First, "odds-on" means "better than even odds."  3:1 ain't odds-on.
>
>Second, these are the odds to win the World Series.  Once you win
>the division, you have a 50-50 shot of winning the playoffs, and
>a 50-50 shot of winning the World Series.  That's 3:1 right there.
>Are you really so sure of the Braves' chances that they're a 100%
>shoo-in to win the division?  You're getting taken at 3:1 odds.

I wouldn't say so. I think Atlanta has something like an eighty precent
chance of winning the division. If they get in the playoffs, they should
have a better than fifty percent chance of winning each of the series. 
3:1 sounds about right to me.

>>> Pittsburgh	25:1
>
>>whatcha doing all the way down here?
>
>Actually, this is another one that is just about right.  Maybe a little
>overvalued, but not much.

Aw, c'mon.  Pittsburgh doesn't have *near* a 25:1 shot at the World
Series.  Who's their top hitter now?  Jay Bell?  I guess Andy Van Slyke
is alright, but he'll be way down from last year.  The Pirates don't
have no 1 in 6 chance at winning the division.

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kohout@cs.umd.edu (Robert Kohout)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:52:05 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <C19y7w.FF@babbage.ece.uc.edu> rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.122112.13976@bsu-ucs> 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>So who do you think was better?  And please don't say Joe Morgan.
>
>Gee, while you're at it you could forbid us from naming Eddie Collins and
>Rogers Hornsby (the two second baseman besides Morgan who were demonstrably
>better than Sandberg).  So let's see, that still leaves Charlie Gehringer...
>Don Blasingame?  Ah, hell, I give up.
>

You're entirely missing the point. You can only name people that Harry Caray
has heard of, and even though he spent many years working in St.Louis,
it's no fair assuming he's heard of Rogers Hornsby. I don't think many
people will argue that, if you exclude Joe Morgan, Sandberg's the
best second baseman of the last 30-40 years, and even if you ARE gonna
try to make the case for Julien Javier ;-), you've got to admit it could be
worse. I remember someone trying to claim that Pete Rose was one of the
10 best baseball players of all time....

Bob kohout


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: Re: Six More Guys Avoid Arbitration
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:59:36 GMT

In article <22JAN199311122069@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov>, ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:
> In article <kbanaian.183.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu>, 
>      kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes...
> 
>>>Craig Wilson, Cards
>>$340K, one year.  The price of mediocrity continues to climb.
> You said it.  We can add Dave Gallagher of the Mets to the list, at around
> $400K for a year, after the Mets *released him* at the end of the season.

Add Pat "Head for the" Borders, C, Toronto. $5m over two years. When I
snorted, my non-SDCN wife said, "But he did so well in the World Series..."

-- 
  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  Test your eye-hand co-ordination; give up ping-pong and try slot-car racing

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: GM Nicknames
Organization: The Executive Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:04:29 GMT

In article <JOHNSON.93Jan21133438@physics.berkeley.edu> johnson@physics.berkeley.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.123710.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>
>
>> Did the Blue Jays roster get a real good " Gillicking" in the off season ????
>
>
>Yep!  And the Twin's McPhailed to get pitching...

I can't blame Andy for the Twins' woes. He tries hard with what he has
to work with.

I'd say that usually Twins fans are Pohlaxed.

Lance, who doesn't feel like using a .sig at the moment.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Morgan vs Sandberg
Keywords: Morgan, Sandberg
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:00:46 GMT

In article <63792@mimsy.umd.edu> kohout@cs.umd.edu (Robert Kohout) writes:
>6) Isn't Kirby Puckett the most popular player in baseball?

In sheer terms of advertising dollars, that'd have to be Nolan Ryan.
It might be Bo Jackson, though.

For what it's worth, Will Clark is on the cover of the GABSB.  I'd
be curious to see the justification for that.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell)
Subject: Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 05:53:51 GMT

jnimerof@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Jeff Nimeroff) writes:

>As much as I hate rumors, a puzzling one has come across my desk by
>way of Jayson Stark (a Philly sportswriter).  The rumored trade has
>John Kruk going to the Cards straight up for Todd Zeile.  Any comments.
>I have my opinions but this is a PG rated show.  I'll just say that if
>Kruk is going anywhere it should be in a package for a pitcher.  Ricky
>Jordan could always play first, and Dave Hollins is a potential superstar
>at 3rd.  Zeile could always catch :-).

I don't think this would be a good trade for either team.  Trading Zeile
would leave the Cards without a decent 3rd baseman.  The Cards need someone
there more than a 1st baseman (Kruk is a 1B, isn't he?  I'd hate to look
like an idiot =-), and the Phillies already have good folks at 3B and
catcher.  I hope they just leave well enough alone.

-- 
==========davE....making the world safe for intelligent dance music.==========
### David Vessell -- SituSongs Ltd. -- Orange City, FL -- dave@bradley.edu ###
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbowers@esrc1.uucp (Ken Bowers)
Subject: Re: Those Silly Jints
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:59:49 GMT

In article <57768@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>In article <2717@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>>
>>Well, the San Fransisco Giants have just announced that Willie McGee will
>>bat leadoff, and Barry Bonds will bat fifth.
>>
>
>Its worse than that. Dusty Baker not only announced he would leadoff McGee
>and hit Bonds 5th, he announced that he would like to reinsert Matt Williams
>into the cleanup spot(where he has proven to be terrible, Matt just can't
>hit there for whatever reasons he can't). He then intimated that he is 
>also leaning towards reinserting Billy Swift in the starting rotation because
>he thinks he has a good enough bullpen with Rod Beck, but needs more starters.
>
>How long before Williams asks out of the cleanup spot?
>

At least one story included the claim (via Baker but not
quoting him) that Bonds preferred to bat 5th as he was
more comfortable there ... does he have a history of
saying this? 

Also, does anyone know how much worse Williams is batting
#4?  Last year I started developing a suspicion that he just
isn't that good. 

Ken B.