HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shimkus@athena.cs.uga.edu (Doc)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:31:45 GMT

In article <kfN3XQO00iV1I4oM5F@andrew.cmu.edu> ts3m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Swann) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 22-Jan-93 Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
>by ajsmith@ualr.edu 
>> I dunno I have this fantasy of seeing Florida and Colorado fighting it out
>> in the NLCS (hey stranger things have happened!)
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Such as ? ? ?
>
>Just curious.
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thomas H. Swann
>ts3m+@andrew.cmu.edu
>University of Virginia (commie 1988)
>now appearing at GSIA (Carnegie Mellon University - 1994)
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well, just recently, how about the Braves vs. the Twins in the 91 series?
I mean, one or the other, fine.  But BOTH?  In the same YEAR?  Pretty
Incredible, if you ask me. :)
+doc
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:43:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu:
>> 
>So who do you think was better? And please don't say Joe Morgan. 

Why can't I say "Joe Morgan"?  He was better than Ryno (although Ryno still
has a chance to beat him out, if he can come up with a few more years near
his peak ones).

>Maybe if you
>go back before 1950 you could make a case. 

That's primarily what I had in mind.  Rogers Hornsby was an offensive force
on the level of a Mickey Mantle or Stan Musial.  Sandberg is (most years)
merely well above-average for a second baseman, with a few outstanding years
by any measure thrown in.  Of course, Ryno is an excellent defensive player,
while Hornsby was marginal to bad.  But it takes (I claim) more of a defensive
difference than is physically possible to make up the offensive gap.

Eddie Collins was also better than Sandberg, and for a long long time.

Nap Lajoie has much better numbers than Sandberg, but I'll concede that it's
too much of a stretch to compare a modern player with a turn-of-the-century
player.

>Although I admit I should have said,
>one of the premier second basemen in history.

That I can certainly agree with.  It was the implication of "no contest" that
I had trouble with.



-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Why Rabbit is in the Hall
Date: 24 Jan 93 04:08:45 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Distribution: na
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <91FuXB1w165w@gtm-inc.com> terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen) writes:
>roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>> In article <8824@news.duke.edu> fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:

>> >     Rabbit Maranville is in the Hall of Fame because he played for the
>> >1914 Miracle Braves who won the World Series.  Anybody can play 3000 games,
>> >but it takes a real HoFer to win the World Series for (a) Boston, and
>> >(b) the Braves.

>> He and Boston great Babe Ruth also played for the 1935 Braves, one of 
>> the all-time worst teams.    Both ended their careers that year.

>> (Oddly enough, the 34 and 36 teams weren't all that bad.  Anyone know what 
>> the story was?)

>1934 St.Louis (N) over Detroit (A) 4-3
[details deleted]
>1936 New York (A) over New York (N) 4-2 
[ditto]

That's nice, but I was inquiring about the 1934 and 1936 Boston Braves.

Roger
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: schofield to the jays
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:46:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1993Jan26.144650.21075
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <199325.4235.54100@dosgate> "drew carley" <drew.carley@canrem.com> writes:
>
>DM>Gee, if I were a Jays fan, and thank god, I'm not, I'd be worrying about
>DM>their third and fourth starters, too.  And maybe their second starter.
>
>   PUH...LEASE!The only pitcher that wasn't in the starting rotation
>   last year when the Jays became the best team IN THE WORLD is Dave
>   Stewart

I seem to remember Jack Morris sucking it up in two of those World
Series starts...  And did Stottlemyre have a post-season start?  I
don't believe so (though my memory could be going).

Cone is gone, Key is gone.  Morris didn't contribute anything to
that World Series win.  Stottlemyre wasn't in the rotation.  Stewart
wasn't on the team.

More accurately, the only pitcher who contributed to last year's
victory in the post-season was Guzman.

>   As far as Lee is concerned
>   he was playing so far above his head offensively last year he was
>   suffering from permanent nosebleeds.

Well, yes.  Same is true of Winfield and Maldonado.  The *player* is
easy to replace, but the *performance* last year will not be.

>   I too thank God that you are not a Jays fan!BTW who do you like?

Until the Red Sox get a real GM, I'm a fan without a team.

-Valentine
From: roney@beaufort.sfu.ca (Chris J. Roney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:00:48 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

bz832@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wesley R. Kemmerlin) writes:


>I personally prefer having no DH. The biggest disadvantage of the
>DH is it takes away the strategy of pinch-hitting for the pitcher.

(stuff deleted)

>I have a solution to this problem:

>The pitcher has to bat, but there can be a DH for another position
>player.

>This solution would keep the strategy in the game while adding more
>offense. What do all of you pro and anti DHers think about this
>solution?
>-- 
>WESLEY

    I'm one pro-D.H.er that doesn't want any part of it.  Personally,
I think the strategy part is overrated in the N.L.  I haven't noticed
any gravitation of "genius" managers to the N.L., and idiots to the
A.L. (both seem to have a good representation of both types of
manager).  There seems to be a trade-off between watching people do
what they do best, and strategy, in people's minds.  Maybe this is
true to a small extent, but again, I think it's been overblown.
Again, I'm not sure that it is so bad having one league have the d.h.
This way we can watch guys like Winfield and Molitar play (every day)
for an extra year or two, and those of you who find the N.L. more
strategic can watch more N.L. games.  Where's the problem?
-- 
Chris Roney  (e-mail chris_roney@sfu.ca)
From: f67709907@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jimmy Jones
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:39:28 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67709907

In article <1993Jan26.200417.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> The Expos signed Jimmy Jones to a minor league contract.  He was a starter 
> for the Astros who hasn't had an ERA below 4.10 in six years.  Has this guy
> ever been considered a real commodity?  The Expos have rehabed players in
> the past and they could use some middle relief.  Any thoughts on this guy's
> past or future?

This would make an interesting exhibit for the David-Tate-vs.-everybody-
else rhubarb regarding value.  Here we have a demonstrably average (perhaps
below-average) pitcher signed by a team with real pennant hopes.  What
would Jones' value to the Expos be if he started 30 times with a 4.20 ERA
and Montreal won the pennant?  Or lost it narrowly?  Or lost it by plenty?

Hmm....
-- 
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin     "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate
f67709907@ccit.arizona.edu      things." -- Dan's advice to Pres. Clinton

   Delightful Things
     A love unknown to others.
     To have solved a riddle.
     A real bargain at a shop.
     A letter from one's sweetheart.
     When something one has ordered turns out well.
	-- from _Inumakura_ (The Dog Pillow)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: "NL has more speed, less power than AL"
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:48:48 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

The old assertion that the NL has more speed and the AL
depends more on the long ball has emerged again.  Does
anyone have data on this?  The simplest indicator would
be the number of SB and HR in each league last year, 
corrected for DH.
I think that is would be interesting to see what percentage
of folks in netland prefer DH vs not, cast in the light of
which league they follow more closely.  My guess is that AL
fans generally like the DH and NL ones generally don't.
But I'm too busy to keep track of the data.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
From: jchandy@crhc.uiuc.edu (John Chandy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ten Best Peaks (was Sandberg)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:36:21 -0600
Organization: University of Illinois, Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: boston.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <25JAN199320141912@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.230005.14396@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes...
>>Or are you asking another question --- "Whose peak was most
>>impressive when compared with his career numbers?" Actually this 
>>is a more interesting question because the answers are not nearly 
>>as obvious as a top ten peak value list would be.
>
>	Would Dale Murphy qualify at this point?  He's had basically
>five years of air since his great '87 season, although I don't
>know what his career numbers are down to at this point.
>	Also, you'd have to look at Don Mattingly at this point, given
>the stages of his career from '84 through '89-ish, and everything after
>that.

How about Jim Rice in the late 70's and early 80's, particularly
77-79.  I don't have the exact numbers but I do recall they were some
monster power stats with above average OBP numbers.  In fact, until
1987 didn't Rice average 30 homers,100 RBIs, and a .300 batting
average for his career.

And don't forget Carl Yasztremski who had an amazing year in 1967
compared with an average career on the whole.  I'm pretty sure that
peak triple crown year along with his longevity is what put him in the
Hall of Fame.

John Chandy
j-chandy@uiuc.edu




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: Matt Stairs
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:29:42 GMT

> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu writes:

> At first glance, a Colbrunn-Stevens platoon does not sound significantly
> better this season than Stairs by himself.  Do either Colbrunn or Stevens
> have significantly extreme L/R splits?

          1991        1991        1992        1992
         OPS/AB      OPS/AB      OPS/AB      OPS/AB
   B      VS L        VS R        VS L        VS R     AGE   NAME

   L    .647/ 17    .814/ 41    .450/ 44    .668/268    25   Stevens,Lee
   R                            .529/ 72    .733/ 96    23   Colbrunn,Greg

Bill James projects almost identical OPS's for each player in 1993 -
.683 and .693 respectively.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

    I had dinner with my father last night, and made a classic Freudian
    slip. I meant to say "Pass the salt.", but it came out "You prick,
    you ruined my childhood."

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kalford@sol.UVic.CA (Keith Alford)
Subject: Re: Playoffs
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:52:00 GMT

>Tom Box
>CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

I remember that time-and as exciting as the playoffs can be,
I've always thought baseball lost something when divisions were
added.

It's never quite seemed as "real" since then.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Subject: John Valentin aka Jose Valentin(?)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:51:38 GMT

I was looking through some minor league baseball cards, and came across a card
of a SS in the San Diego farm system by the name of Jose Valentin.  Is this the
same player as the Red Sox SS John Valentin?  If so, how did they acquire him?

Steve Kelm  sckelm@iastate.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:48:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: na
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan21.132431.24404@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, 
marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes...
> 
> 
>The following odds chart appeared today in the Toronto Star, and represents
>the odds listed by the Flamingo Hotel sports book in Laughlin, Nev. The
>odds represent the odds to win the 1993 WS:
> 
>Team		Odds
>----		----
> 
>Atlanta		3:1
>Toronto		4:1
>Montreal	8:1		[alright!]
                                ^^^^^^^^^^
                                Here he shows that he is an Expos fan. 
                                Nothing wrong with that.
>Chisox		8:1
>Cincinnati	8:1
>Milwaukee	10:1
>Baltimore	10:1
>Oakland		10:1
>San Diego	12:1
>NY Mets		12:1
>Minnesota	15:1
>Los Angeles	15:1
>St. Louis	18:1
>Chicubs		18:1
>NY Yankees	18:1
>Houston		20:1
>Pittsburgh	25:1
>Texas		30:1
>Kansas City	30:1
>San Francisco	35:1
>Cleveland	35:1
>Philadelphia	35:1
>Boston		40:1
>Seattle		50:1
>California	60:1
>Detroit		75:1
>Florida		300:1
>Colorado	300:1
> 
>Now a few of these are clearly ridiculous (ie LA!!), but fun nonetheless.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Cruel, very cruel.  Probably you have not gotten over the 1981 NLCS, 5th
and deciding game, 9th innining, Rick Monday steps up to the plate ...      

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Simon Marwood		 |		  -- Expos, 1993 -- 
>marwood@csri.toronto.edu | ASIA ALPHA ASTRA AURORA THEN & NOW LIVE MOSKBA AQUA
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:43:49 GMT

In article <GRABINER.93Jan21141053@germain.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.025125.26861@athena.mit.edu>, Charles M Kozierok writes:
>> true, but i don't think that was Thomas's point. the question was
>> rather "how much more valuable than an average 1B is a 1B who slugs
>> 50 points higher than average?" vs the same for a shortstop. the 
>> value of a player relative to the mean should be (partly) based on the number
>> of standard deviations from the mean. and if the variance for SS
>> is less than for 1B (and it probably is), then a SS who slugs 50 points
>> over average is a more valuable commodity relative to other SS's than
>> a 1B slugging the same amount over average.
>
>I don't believe this is true, though.  The value of a player to your
>team does not depend on standard deviations; it depends on the number of
>games he helps your team win and lose.  If you trade a shortstop who
>slugs 50 points better than average and an average first baseman for an
>average shortstop and a first baseman who slugs 50 points better than
>average, your team will still score the same number of runs.  Since you
>break even on the trade, you must have traded players of the same value.

no.
because a shortstop who slugs 50 points higher than the average SS
is harder to find than a 1B who does. you haven't broken even, because
you traded a rare commodity for a common one.

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ksmith@swine.cs.uiuc.edu (Ken Smith)
Subject: Re: Cardinals (Zeile thread)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:34:07 GMT

Regarding trading Ziele, I think this is the year to keep him.  I've been
reading that (for the first time) he spent the whole winter working out and
training.  Pagnozzi was on KMOX the other night and mentioned that Zeile
has bulked up, is in great shape, and is looking at '93 as his year to
prove something.
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:10:37 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu:

>"regardless of what defensive position is played, beating the average
>ops for that position by n points will give the same amount of wins
>to the team."

That was me, more or less.

>bzzzzt.  

Hmm.  My "No Pest Strip" doesn't seem to be working...

>a first baseman with 50 points of ops more than the average
>first baseman will bat somewhere in the middle of the lineup.  a shortstop
>with 50 points of ops more than the average shortstop will bat, what,
>eighth instead of ninth? whoop-de-doo.  the first baseman contributes
>more, since he comes up to the plate more often, and has runners on base
>more often when he comes up, and is on base more often when a decent
>batter comes up.

Agreed.  I was being sloppy for brevity's sake.  You can account for most of
this by normalizing the PA's (which isn't that much of a difference anyway).
Lineup effects are small, in general.  The real comparison is the effect that
each would have on the *team* OBP and SLG, which will be larger for an above-
average first baseman than for an equally above-average SS.  


-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: Alex Cole's defense ... a question.
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:09:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.135206.24544@cs.tulane.edu>,
eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) wrote:
> 
> In article <1993Jan26.135052.4584@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, cc007001@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes...
> >I was recently reading an article on rec.sport.baseball.fantasy where
> >Dave Bonar commented that Alex Cole is not good defensively in center.
> >I realize that he had a low fielding percentage in 1991 but everything
> >else that I have seen indicates (to me) that he had good range.
[stuff showing cole above average defensively by DA deleted]
> >So is Cole's reputation based on his errors alone?
> 
> 	Cole's defensive rep. might well be based totally on his errors.
> I don't have the defensive average or range factor info around (for any
> years of interest) so I'll admit that I basically repeated what I've heard
> on Cole (I haven't seen him play nearly enough to have an idea).  
>

I've seen Cole play from AAA on up in both Pittsburgh and Cleveland and in
half a dozen other parks. I don't know from defensive averages...He just
can't play the field that well. He's gotten a little better with time, but
for lack of a better word, I'd say he's lacking a little bit of baseball
sense. He's fast but frequently misjudges balls, and he needs a lot of
positioning from the dugout. His glovework, particularly where barriers
such as fences and other players, can be nerve-wracking. He does know where
to throw in different situations but doesn't have a particularly good arm.

Bad? Well, maybe, edging towards average. I'd rather have him in a deep
left field than center or right.

He's a nice guy, for what that's worth these days 8-).

- matt

---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
From: genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dodgers in '93
Date: 24 Jan 1993 14:08:11 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

With the acquisiton of a number of veteran ballplayers and little help
acquired for the bullpen (Worrell still having arm soreness).  It
appears that the Dodgers have not done much to improve their chances
for climbing from the cellar of the National League West.

I feel they need to make a few dramatic moves to become competitive
in the West.  What do you think?  Who should they go after, who should
they get rid of (including management)?  I would be most interested in
your comments.

Thanks, Michael - A True Dodger Blue Trojan

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: yang@acs.ucalgary.ca (David Yang)
Subject: Re: Lee Stevens to the Expos
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:45:15 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball

In article <C10B95.JGs@panix.com>, spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way
Of Life" Spira) wrote:
> 
> In <1993Jan16.225313.9967@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
> 
> >Examples:
> >---------
> 
> >1. Months and months of speculation about where the Expos were going to move
> >   to after the (albeit disastrous) 1991 season. This went on despite the
> >   fact that the new owners were absolutely committed to keeping the team in
> >   Montreal.
> 
> Sportswriters are a stupid breed.  They did this for the same reason they've
> been babbling about a '93 lockout for the last 6 months, even though it's
> always been extremely unlikely.  Sportswriters look at the obvious - a
> stadium falling apart, a bad season - and don't look further.
> 

I don't think its just the American media that was doing this.  I remember
articles in Calgary stating to the effect that Montreal was in financial
trouble and should sell or move before the team folded.  Not that we know
anything about baseball judging from our poor/weak sportscasts and
newspaper articles. 


> >4. Focussing on ridiculous stories about how Bryn Smith had to drive over
> >   to Vermont to buy the particular brand of Doritos he liked, and how he
> >   wasn't too hip on the Montreal habit of gravy with french fries.
> 
> I've never heard this or the last story.  Considering that I read about
> 6 newspapers a day, I'm very skeptical that these stories were "focused"
> on.
>     
I heard about this, but I could almost swear it was on an Expo's telecast
on CBC. I could be wrong about it being on CBC but I can remember a
reporter asking Smith about the French Fries (is that best question they
can ask??) and Smith replied along the lines that he likes ketchup with his
fries and he also had a problem with Montreal not putting any ice in his
pop.  Sounds pretty stupid, I thought he was joking. 

> >This post is *not* meant as a flame against the US or anything like that,
> >as should be obvious from its content. It is merely a small subset of the
> >numerous sets of articles that appear in the US press regarding the Expos.
> >For the most part, these have been negative stories. And, again for the
> >most part, the Expos *are* ignored by the US press otherwise. 
> 
> This is the way U.S. media works.  Report bad stuff, make
> inconsequential silly stuff look bad, ignore everything else.
> 
The Canadian media is just as stupid/ignorant.

-Dave
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball