HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Thanks
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:12:53 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Aug24.115447.925@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
#rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel) writes:
##Thanks to all who responded to my FAQ. I really enjoyed the
##reasoning and factual info provided and have made my decision
##based mostly on that input. So, now I ask, what's the difference
##between a S&W 586/686 that was so highly recommended, and the
##S&W Model 19?
#
#The S&W 586/686 are L-framed square-butt, the 686 bein the stainless
#twin of the blued 586.  The M19 is a blued K-framed round-butt gun.
#L-frames are heavier than K-frames.  Square butts make a revolver more
#bulky than round butts.  That's the reason that the M19 has been the FBI
#carry gun while the M686 is mainly a competition gun.  You don't want
#to carry a big 586 all day if you aren't built like Conan the Destroyer.

Partially correct, not all M19's are round butt, in fact, the majority
that I have seen are not. Not all the x81/x86 series were square butt
though most are <there was a Customs Service special production a few
years back 581 with a round butt and hard chrome finish>. There is very
little, if any, differences in the grip dimensions. As I recall, the
grips are interchangeable between the two. The main difference are in
top strap and cylinder thinkness and the full length ejector shroud.
The M19 is not recommended for a consistent diet of full house .357 Mag.
loads. Police depts. found them to wear out very quickly using these
rounds. The x81/x86 series was a Python rip-off meant to remedy the
situation. The 581 <blue, fixed sight version no longer in production>
has a very smooth trigger right out of the box. It is no more difficult
to conceal than a M19 <which I traded for the 581>. I don't recommend
the M19 as being as versatile or robust as the x81/x86 series.



#When shooting fast double-action series, I appreciate the short 
#trigger resistance just before the hammer drops on my M686.  I pull
#the trigger quickly backwards just until I reach the resistance, then
#I let the shot break a la single action.  The first time I shot a Colt
#Python, I had problems shooting double action, since the Colt trigger
#characteristic is alien.
-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Battle Rifles" - definition?
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:55 GMT
Organization: NCSU Computing Center - Adams' Family Club

In article <9209022035.AA04661@gyre.cs.UMD.EDU> wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
#In regard to the thread on "battle rifles": I was under the impression
#that this was a term either invented by or popularized by Jeff Cooper, and
#that he did specifically mean rifles heavier-caliber than .223, and
#most likely .308 / 7.62 NATO as opposed to 7.62X39 Soviet. Other
#criteria would involve all the usual ones that go into the selection of
#a military weapon -- reliability, maintainability, durability, etc.

  I believe that the definition goes back to military usage,
and was used to distinguish the usual military rifle from the "new"
"assault" rifle.  After reading about assault rifles, I wrote:

#  The original is the German Sturmgewehr of WWII, which was a change
#from the WWI and WWI "battle" rifle - typified by such rifles as
#the 1903 Springfield and the M1 Garand - heavy, long, powerful,
#accurate rifles.  The Sturmgewehr, literally "storm rifle" or 
#"assault rifle", suited war with tanks and in cities, rather
#than in trenches and long range fighting.   ...

  Note that these names "battle rifle" and "assault rifle" are
*names* and therefore it does *not* mean that any rifle used in a
battle is automatically defined as a "battle rifle" (nor is any 
rifle used an an assault automatically defined as an "assault
rifle".)  Rather it is the characteristics of the rifle which
determine which class it is in.

  In my opinion the M14 would be considered a "battle rifle"
(although perhaps one tending a little in the direction of the 
assault rifle) and the M16 is clearly an "assault rifle".

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:26 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

I've noticed that in the past few issues of Guns magazine, Massad Ayoob
stated a couple times that the ideal 10mm load is neither the FBI Lite
nor the full power, full weight cartridges.  The 150-155 grain jacketed
hollowpoints seem fragile enough not to overpenetrate through a human being,
yet still retaining similar horsepower to a .357 Magnum.  I've done shooting
with the light hollowpoints in a friend's Delta Elite (it's all he uses.  The
weapon suffers no apparent stress from the lighter hollowpoints), and it's
quite enjoyable.
As for the weapon being too large, this is a certainty if you're talking about
the Glock, the LAR Grizzly, and some of the other models.  However, the
Government Model Sized weapons, when the mid-range loads are being used,
seems like a handy, reliable, sidepiece.

Douglas P. Wojtowicz.
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: '92 Palma Match Ammo For Sale
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:05 GMT

I have a few hundred rounds of the 1992 Palma Match Ammunition.  It's loaded
with 44.8 grains of IMR4895, Sierra 155-gr. Palma bullet, Federal 210M
primers; all stuffed in extremely uniform Winchester cases headstamped
`92 Palma - .308 Win.'  Packaged in white boxes with nice labeling.  It was
loaded by Jensen's Custom Ammunition in Arizona.  Has tested to shoot less
than one-half MOA at 600 yards and less than 1 MOA at 1000 yards; in barrels
made for it.

Asking price is $15.00 per box of 20.  Buyer pays shipping charges and all
related fees above that.

Please email or post responses, thanks.
From: loki@acca.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: An anecdote to brighten your day...
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:27 GMT


A friend of mine, an ex-cop from Wisconsin, is now a gunsmith in New Mexico.
He was half-owner in a gunshop in Las Cruces when this incident occured:

On a weekday afternoon, Paul was sitting behind the gun-shop counter,
doing whatever it is that gun-shop owners do when noone else is in the
store.  An elderly lady, approximately four and a half feet short and 
having the appearance of having been old when Christ was a corporal,
walks into the shop.  She hobbles up to the counter, plunks an enormous
handbag onto the counter, and hauls out a 7 1/2" barrel Single Action
Army Colt, .45LC.  This she deposits on the counter next to the purse.

"Clean it and change the ammunition, please," the wizened old believer
in self defense says; "I'll wait."

Paul was apparently a little taken aback... but just for a moment.  He
proceeded to comply with the request, and returned the weapon to his 
customer.

"How much do I owe you," she asks.

"No charge.  Daily special," He replies.

(chalk it down as urban legend if you well... but still, an amusing story.)

--Dan

"Master... Master...                       (To The Tune of Metallica's)
	Master of Science is your degree.  ('Master of Puppets')
	You're too dumb for a PhD.              loki@acca.nmsu.edu
	Should have studied for the GRE!    dftaylor@cechem.colorado.edu
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Results of '92 Palma Matches
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:12:51 GMT

Well, the 1992 International Palma Matches are over.  Here's a quick
rundown on how the teams did:

    1. Great Britan
    2. Canada
    3. New Zeland
    4. Australia
    5. United States
    6. Africa
    7. Europe

Most of the individual matches were won or placed in by the Brits, Canooks,
Aussies; some US shooters did place.
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Free NRA Memberships
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:26 GMT
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division

[With the Moderator's indulgence...]

[I might point out that Bart Simpson is now an NRA member :-)]

Have you always wanted to join the NRA but never had the money?

Have you wondered what the NRA is all about?  What they really stand
for, and what they do?

Here's your chance.

My name is Kirk Hays, hays@ssd.intel.com (internet).  I run a
program to broker NRA (National Rifle Association) memberships.
Essentially, I match people who would join the NRA, but haven't due to
some financial restraint, with people who are willing to pay for one
year memberships, which normally cost $25 each.

I represent 35 anonymous sponsors, who, with myself, are offering over
130 sponsored memberships, all for financially needy people who are
not current members, and who are eligible for membership.

I make no money from this at all, just tremendous personal
satisfaction, which is shared with the anonymous sponsors.

On a quasi-monthly basis, I distribute this message, along with the
following information:

June 4th, 1992 (inception) to August 28, 1992:

Memberships applications received: 45
	Applications refused: 3
	Memberships awarded: 36
	Applications in progress: 6

Current NRA membership: Will reach 3 million by election day, November 3rd.

If you think you are eligible, send me an email letter explaining, in
a paragraph or two, why you think the RKBA is important and why you
should be sponsored.  Give any information (biographical, situational,
or otherwise) you think might influence a sponsor into choosing you.

I will acknowledge receipt of the letter.

Include your name as you would want it to appear on any membership
awarded, your mailing address, and an indication of your age
(over/under 21 is sufficient).

Recipient names will be confidential, except for myself and the final
sponsor.

If you are selected to receive a sponsored membership, you will be
notified after it has been purchased.

If you know someone who'd be interested, but lacks email access,
please help them as a go-between.

Feel free to redistribute this message in it's entirety.

Disclaimer:

This is not a program of the NRA - I thought it up myself, it's being
done on my own time.

My employer does not endorse this project.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life. hays@ssd.intel.com
"Judge each day not by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
-- Robert Louis Stevenson
From: rliles@heimdall.mlb.semi.harris.com (Ray Liles)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What about the Ruger Ranch Rifle .223 vs Mini-
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:27 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

I'd appreciate comments on the Ruger Ranch Rifle .223 vs the Mini-14  or
how the Ranch Rifle fares against the AR-15.

Ray
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:38 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Aug19.214534.19959@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
# The War Between the States generated a fair amount of bizarre weaponry.  I
# remember a "Life" magazine article on some of it, about 30 years ago.  One
# was a gun that fired ~100 .44 rounds _simultaneously_ through ~100
# parallel barrels.  Loading and unloading (by opening the rear) didn't
# look to be very efficient, or fun.
# 
# The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)

These are called "organ guns" and were in use in Europe centuries
earlier.  See _Social History of the Machine Gun_ for a little more
background.

The really major innovation fo the Civil War was the Gatling Gun.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AM radio DXing
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:03 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
#
#Here's an idea: Protector Technologies, Inc.*  makes something
#called StrapLock.  It looks like a rubber band on steroids,
#with a molded in handle/plug at one end that goes in the
#front of the barrel, the other end has a hole that fits over the
#hammer spur.

 [snip]

#It isn't going to be any help if they get a Glock, or other
#hammerles gun, but...

Actually, the StrapLock can indeed be used with hammerless semi-autos.
You leave the chamber empty and stretch the band over the back of the
slide; the StrapLock makes it impossible to rack the slide and load a
round.

Note however that older children will have no difficulty in removing
the StrapLock from the gun.

                               -- Alane --
   /-----------------------------------------------------------------\
  /   NOBODY shares my opinions,    |    "I am a jelly doughnut"      \
 /    especially not my employer    |    -- President John F Kennedy   \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: German Firearms Regulations
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:44:09 GMT


Jerry Hollombe writes:
#Can someone tell me what firearms, if any, the ordinary citizen is
#allowed to own in Germany?  How about tourists and/or US Military
#folk assigned there?


My Cz75 was purchased by a service member at one of the on-base rod
& gun clubs in Germany. There is a special BATF form used by service
people to import guns. He transferred it to a dealer friend who then
transferred it to me. NIB Cz75 with no importers markings for $300.

When the Bush import ban (remember those 3 words :) went into effect,
service members who had bought banned firearms prior to the ban were
NOT allowed to import them despite prior ownership..



On this topic, when either Springfield or Auto-Ordnance brought out their
Omega, a multi-caliber M1911A1 clone, one of the reviews said that it
would be a hit in Germany because the law there allows one to own only
three different firearms in one's lifetime. This seemed weird. Is it
true?



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Is a pocket gun really a pocket gun?
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:30 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

IS it really possible to carry a resonable calibre (.38, .45, .357)
handgun in your trouser pocket with reasonable concealment and
safety?

I've always wondered whether there would be an advantage in having
a snub nosed revolver (bobbed hammer) carried there rather than in
a holster. In a really desperate situation perhaps you could fire from
within the pocket (hopefully missing the family jewels)? In addition,
wouldn't reaching within a very baggy trouser pocket be a little more
surruptitious than reaching for a conventional holster?

What are the pros and cons of this method of carry?
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: computer name
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:47 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

Hi again! I'm going to rename my SPARC II at work. I was thinking
to use "springfield", because I have a S.A. 1911A1. But it turned
out to be too long. It only accepts up to 8 character long. My second
choice then went to "colt45".

Before I make the changes, I would like to know what you guys have
to say. Thanks. :)

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.		| E-mail: kdlin@uswest.com
 Member Technical Staff		| Space reserved for future expansion.
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies	| Disclaimer: Only personal opinions.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust Prevention
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:22 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9208201105.AA05094@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#I don't think it was mentioned in the current thread on rust prevention,
#but Bianchi Blue Bags seem to hold promise.
#
#The Blue Bags are basically a plastic bag with a corrosion-preventative
#lining.  I believe the active life is 3 years, and at the end of the
#3 years Bianchi will send you a new one free.  I think this is a continuous
                                         ^^^^

Yes, but there is a modest "shipping & handling charge" of about $3.00.
No, you cannot send a self addressesd stamped mailer and get the "free" bag 
without paying this fee.  No, the postage on the replacement they mail you
will not come close to this fee.  You must send the bag in withing a short
(30 day, I think) window of the expiration of the old one, with original proof 
of purchase (they didn't think to date stamp the bags, since that would make it
all to easy to take them up on the "free" offer).
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:43 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <23032@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:
}In article <11883@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
}#... Cotati
}#Police had taken to sitting outside the range, and stopping people
}#coming out of, or into the range, and inspecting their handguns.
}#They were using the "ridiculous interpretation" of the Kalifornia
}#law to confiscate guns from people who had a loaded magazine in 
}#the same bag as a gun.  ...

}Under what grounds do they attempt this and what happens if you
}refuse?

"Probable cause" and they can arrest you and get very nasty about it.

}Just going into a gun range is not a crime and if they can not see
}any guns then they can not assume that you have one. ...

They have probable cause to believe you have one and, in California, the
authority to inspect _any_ gun to see if it's been involved in a crime.

}...It would be
}interesting to see what would happen if you went in with a large
}bag/case that did not have any guns and refused to let them take
}a look at it. When it was found out that there were no guns involved
}what would their excuse be?

"Probable cause."

Quoth my friend, the ADA:

"You don't want to be a test case.  It _hurts_."

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:12 GMT


Gordon Laird writes:
#   I know that during the Nepoleanic wars and there abouts, grape shot was
#often used in cannons.  It consisted of lead or iron balls (not unlike shot
#in a shotgun shell) tied together with chain or wire.  Its primary purpose was



Grape shot almost invariably consisted of 9 iron balls combined into a single
munition - 3 rows of 3. Two iron rings were placed between the first/second
and second/third tiers, and two end plates connected by a tie rod kept the
whole thing together.

Canister shot consisted of a number of much smaller balls which separated
at the muzzle and acted as a shotgun. Case shot (the forerunner of shrapnel)
functioned near the target, as determined by a pyrotechnic time fuze (as
described here recently), to send musket balls in all directions, hopefully
in the vicinity of the enemy formation.




#  In Vietnam (not generally publicized) they used flechetts (spell?).  This
#ammunition is most commonly loaded for shotguns.  It consists of hundreds of
#small wire sigments with a barb on one end that acts as a tail or feather.


Flechettes were actually pretty widely publicized, most commonly being used
in 2.75" rockets. There is a tape done by one of the "news" media during 
VN which very explicitly describes the munition and its effects. I believe
I caught it on a Discovery Channel program on combat helos.

Anyone in the vicinity of Picatinny Arsenal can come visit our museum and
see a model of a truly impressive flechette munition: the 155mm XM396.
20,000+ flechettes. My uncle's brother, an M109 cannoneer in VN, fired
some of these.

Flechettes as used in area munitions are made the same as ordinary nails,
except that instead of a flat head they have a little four-finned tail.
These are the mass-produced type, differing from the precision flechettes
used in some of the ACRs. 



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: clb@mistxt.oc.com (Chris Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: a new grease?
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:07 GMT
Organization: OpenConnect Systems, Dallas, TX

hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) wrote about Synco's SuperLube:
#Highy lubricious: Less friction
#Impervious to salt and fresh water
#Won't wash off, disperse, break down or turn rancid
#Superior adhesion:  Stays where you put it
#Non-toxic and Non-corrosive
#All temperature use -65 to 650 F.
#Does not attract dust or other contaminants
#
#  I've just started to use it myself, and so don't have an 
#experience base yet.  Has anyone else had any experience (good or
#bad) with this?

I've experimented with it as a bicycle lubricant, and found it wanting.
Under the heavy bearing loads in bikes it breaks down quickly into a grey
slimy substance.

For gun use, it should do nicely, since y'all clean your guns right after
you shoot, right?  It is much cleaner than any gun grease that I've seen,
and outlasts any oil.  It also won't run all over the action if you get too
much out of the tube--just wipe it off.

Hmm.  Good idea, Henry.  I'll have to go get a tube and try it out on a gun.

If you can't find Super Lube in your hardware store, go to a bike shop.
Schwinn sells the same stuff as Schwinn Tef Lube.
-- 
(* Chris Boyd          OpenConnect Systems, Inc.          clb@oc.com *)
(*  2033 Chennault, Carrollton TX 75006, USA. Real close to Dallas   *)
(*       I have no right to speak for others, only for myself.       *)