From: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: Re: The evil in Ravana is Arrogance .. not race or sex!
Keywords: Ramayana, Dravidian, Aryan philosophies, metaphysics..
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:19:09 GMT

In article <lfgtmkINNlfr@bathtub.cs.utexas.edu>, raman@cs.utexas.edu (Raman Rajagopalan) writes:
> In article <Bx6Fvn.Dzn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering) writes:
> >
> >
> >In article <Bwu8BH.4u8@cs.psu.edu>, narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
> >> Selvakumar writes that many Tamils consider the burning of Ravana
> >> in Ramlila celebrations of the Northern parts of India as burning
> >> the Tamils. In Ramlila celebrations, the buring of Ravana is
> >> symbolic of the burning of the evil. That Ravana was evil is 
> >                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> established  precisely through his actions. 
> 
> >          Let us try to compare Ravana and Rama based on their actions!
> >          Ravana loses a point by abducting Sita ( but he does not dishonor
> >          her). BUT Rama had KILLED people who did NOT do any harm to him.
> >          (example killing of Vaali)
> >          How many points Sri Rama loses ?
> >          More can be compared about actions of Rama and Ravana! 
> >          Who is more evil ?! Who should be "burnt" as per your rule ?!
> 
> >> ....kt
> >
> >     Regards,
> >     Selva Selvakumar
> >
> 
> Ravana abducting Sita is an evil act which comes long after Ravana
> attains his powers.  The "evil" in ravana is that of "absolute power
> corrupting absolutely".  Ravana, Kumbakarna, etc. do their penances
> to obtain powers in order to become "masters of the universe".  Long
> before Rama and Sita are involved, the Gods are concerned enough to
> have Saraswati interfere with Kumbakarna's speech so that he asks
> the boon of sleeping eternally instead of some boon which would
> give him unbeatable powers (I do not remember the details of his
> intended request).
> 
> Ravana, after obtaining boons from Siva, quickly enslaves
> the demigods and uses them as steps to ascend to his throne.  There
> is even the cute story of Sani giving Ravana the evil eye as he is
> trod upon.  This incident is then cast as one of the foretellers of
> Ravana's doom.
> 
> The "evilness" of Ravana has nothing to with Sex or Race, the evil
> is the arrogance which comes to him when he gains his enormous powers.
> As an individual, he is quite pious, and from the versions of Ramayana
> that I have read, he is quite civil where Sita is concerned although
> he does kidnap her.  The power of the pious woman/wife is covered
> in other stories (Kannagi, Gandodhari in Mahabharata), but is
> not something which needed to be exercised against Ravana.
> 
> The concept of evil doers gaining their powers through boons from 
> various gods is a recurring theme in the puranas.  Then, the Gods
> have to come up with some cute trick to eliminate the demon -- 
> reenforcing the concept that good will prevail.  The ultimate
> in this is Shakti taking the form of Kali -- a horrible form, 
> but a necessary one, since the blood of rakthabeejan could not
> be allowed to touch the ground.
> 
> From another angle, if the kidnapping of Sita is Ravana's biggest
> crime, what is the reason for the Rama avatar??  So that he will
> get married only to have his wife kidnapped???  The Rama avatar
> was necessary because Ravana was already powerful, and he had to
> be dealt with.  Sita is just the catalyst who sets the stage for
> the battle between Rama and Ravana.
> 
> - raman rajagopalan
> 
> p.s. About Vali --
>        Rama admits that he himself has done evil in killing Vali from
>      hiding.  Vishnu pays for this sin during the Krishna avatar, when
>      Vali, reborn as a hunter, kills Krishna when he takes the latter
>      to be a bird (something to do with the feet of Krishna .. I do not 
>      remember the details).  This incident reinforces the concept of
>      one reaping the effects of his actions (karma), again a recurring
>      theme in the puranas.  


       The Saiva saints of great repute ( the core aacharyas ) mention
       that Ravana attained LIBERATION and he CAN NOT do any evil.
       The story of Sita -Rama - Ravana is bring down the fame achieved
       by Ravana. Ravana can do evil like abducting Sita is to say like
       Sri Ramana bhagavan can do evil !! It is true Ravana's ego was
       killed but by Siva AND it is the purpose of every human life
        ( you may substitute Siva by Krishna, Rama, Alla, Jesus, I
          don't mind) It is FUNDEMENTALLY wrong to say that Ravana
          attained powers from Siva and Ravana used these powers
          in evil way and then Rama came and destroyed Ravana . This
          shows the well known religious superiority games played by
          our purana authors. 
      The title IraavaNan ( = Ravana) was given by Lord Siva ( said
      by Saint Thiru Sundaramurthy Nayanmar, a brahmin ) after he
      attained the immortal stage ( Thuriya ). IravaNan means immortal.
      ( Skt. ravana means wailing ). Lifing of mount kailash and
      pressing of Siva's toe and Ravana playing veena and Siva giving
      Grace have deeper utporuL ( = inner meaning) and it is a paribhasai
      ( = code language). Ravana is an Immortal and incapable of doing
       evil. 

      Regards,
      Selva
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:36908 soc.culture.bangladesh:5854