HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: MBTI tests availability (was: Re: How useful is MBTI really?)
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:33:04 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1993Jan25.175159.6051@honte.uleth.ca> std_gibson@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>
>Isn't the MBTI a 94-question test?  I remeber doing it a couple of years ago
>(a pencil/paper version) in an undergrad psychology class.
>
>And, as with most psych. assessments, I believe that the "original" test is
>property of the publishing company that does the hard copies of it.  If there
>is a computer version, is it done by the company that owns the rights to the
>test or is it an "illegal" version of it?

MBTI is about 120 questions long.  A good friend of mine became officially 
certified a few months ago to administer and interpret the test.  I have 
before me the info booklet that I got when I re-took MBTI a few months 
ago.  The inside cover says the copyright is held by Consulting 
Psychologists Press, Inc.  It also says that "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator" 
and "MBTI" or registered trademarks of the same company.  Based on this 
and on statements from my friend, I'd say that this company is the 
"official" authority for dispensing and interpreting MBTI.  

The full address, by the way, is:  

  Consulting Psychologists Press, Inc. 
  3803 E. Bayshore Road 
  Palo Alto, CA   94303 

-------------------------------------------
  Ken Ewing 
  Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 
  Beaverton, Oregon 
  kene@sequent.com 
  ...!uunet!sequent!kene
From: bcollins@utdallas.edu (ARLIN B COLLINS)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: subscribe
Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:30:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

subscribe
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: ffujita@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Frank Fujita)
Subject: Re: One person: Three MBT scores?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:57:04 GMT

rlguye@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ron L. Guye) writes:
>I can take the test,
>honestly, three different ways. 

What three ways?
Frank Fujita
From: ffujita@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Frank Fujita)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: Enneagrams
Keywords: Enneagram, personality
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:16:58 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bulwinkl@stein.u.washington.edu (In Cognito) writes:
>"Personality Types - Using the Enneagram
>for Self-Discovery", by Don Richard Riso.
[...] lots deleted
>I hope someone else can add to this description.

Well, except for type III they can all be subsumed under some set of
MBTI type see the appendix for the mapping (I don't have my Riso with
me).  One of the good things about the MBTI is that it tries to be
evaluatively neutral -- that is one doesn't judge how good or bad
someone else is when they sort them.  On the other hand, the Enneagram
is inherently evaluative.  This makes it less innocent as a 'parlor
game' and potentially destructive.

Frank Fujita
From: mthomas@hotcity.COM (Mark Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: MMPI info
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:21:22 PST
Organization: BBS

Well I just toke the MMPI and will ask my shrink if I can get a copy and ask
him how exactly it is graded. In return I would like help if possible I'm
trying to get a Ph.D in Psychology how long does it usuall take to accomplish
that goal.
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Heracleitus)
Subject: Changing Types?  Was Re: ENTJ classification
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:14:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.114704.6270@praxis.co.uk> simond@praxis.co.uk (Simon Dawson) writes:
>When I take the test (MBTI and the Temperament Sorter) I am clearly an
>ENTJ. That preference for behaviour is how I have earned a living most of
>my life (as a manger in demanding/cost-conscious environments).
>
>However, having passed through my mid-life crisis, I felt (sic) I would
>like to behave in a different way. I really tried to be an ENFP, you
>know, more caring more open minded, not rushing into action, not closing
>down decisions all the time. I even changed my job from managing a large
>department with matching budget, to a three person department with next
>to no budget in a tiny company. Damn it I still get ENTJ on the tests.
> [some stuff omitted]
>There has been some discussion here about type changing over time. I have
>always thought this possible - although I have now discovered it is
>harder to achieve deliberately, than I had imagined. Unless ENTJ is a
>particularly stable type ?
>Simon 

  Actually, I took the 70-question short-form MBTI today and pegged
INXX, where XX means I strictly tied both T/F and J/P.  On the very
first admission of the test I took, I also tied T/F, although I
was slightly J-biased, and the tie-breaker rule said take T.  In
every administration of the (abbreviated) test since then, I have
consistently scored either INTJ or INFP, but not usually INTP or INFJ.
I wonder what it really means.  I agree with the descriptions of
INTJ and INFP that I read in books, as they mirror me pretty well
(both sides of my personality, I guess) and other groups don't do
such a good job.  I think the whole Jungian theory upon which
the MBTI is based says age/experience/maturity contribute to one's
narrowing the gaps between opposites, and Jung advocated trying to
reach the golden mean between each (of the original three, I guess,
since J/P was added later, etc.)  I suspect I will always score
IN, but the next two categories don't really make much distinction.
I have often wondered what I might scored on the Minnesota test,
as it is much longer even than the full MBTI, and more questions
often mean less bias in subjective (and contradictory) question
answers.  I suppose you have to see a shrink to get the test
administered?

Doug Lamb
University of Virginia
dtl8v@Virginia.EDU

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: Paul.Fortman@launchpad.unc.edu (Paul Fortman)
Subject: Re: Enneagrams
Keywords: Enneagram, personality
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:04:26 GMT

In article <1k80g9INNh0b@shelley.u.washington.edu> bulwinkl@stein.u.washington.edu (In Cognito) writes:
>Another paradigm for categorizing people by personality type is the
>Enneagram.  The book that I have (recommended by Carol Erickson -
>daughter of Eric Erickson) is "Personality Types - Using the Enneagram
>for Self-Discovery", by Don Richard Riso.
...
>of a given point.  To see this clearly, it would be best to get a
>book and look at the picture and read it.
>
>THE FEELING TRIAD
>Type Two: The Helper
>Type Three: The Status Seeker
>Type Four: The Artist

I have read Riso's book(s) (I think there are two books, but I'm not sure),
and, if I recall correctly, I am a type four (the artist).  Also, if I'm not
mistaken, the type four description is similar or compatible with my Myers-
Briggs INFP.

I find both the MBTI and the Enneagram to be interesting, informative, and
helpful.

*Paul


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: ffujita@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Frank Fujita)
Subject: Re: How useful is MBTI really?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:54:05 GMT

bstone@acs.ucalgary.ca (Blake Stone) writes:
>Is there an FTPable copy of the full test?

Not a legal one.  CPP owns the copyright, and makes quite a lot of money
on the MBTI.  I doubt that they would authorize a shareware version, as
their commercial PC/Clone version of the test costs somewhere in the
$2-5 per test range.

Frank Fujita
P.S.  Also, it is a class B psychological test, which means that you
need to take a course in psychological testing, or get specific
licensing to use the test.  (Actually the MBTI is pretty harmless, but
it is still class B)
From: zukor@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Karen Zukor)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: ENTJ classification
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:05:59 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
NNTP-Posting-Host: blacks.jpl.nasa.gov

me_s420@king.ac.uk (Chris Welch) writes:
>Simon Dawson (simond@praxis.co.uk) wrote:
>: + David Caruso II writes :  Any other ENTJs out there?
>: You suggested some transfer of info about ENTJ's. I'm a reluctant ENTJ.
><I> came out as ENTJ very unambiguously. I must admit that I was
>a bit surprised as being tagged as an executive type - I have been trying
>to work out exactly what this means for me ever since. I should say that
>I am a university lecturer (in space technology) which, on first appearance
>is about as far away from being an executive as I can conceive. 

       I am not a reluctant ENTJ, but a frustrated one.  
       I might be happier, more sucessful and more productive as
       a manager.  But how does one become a manager?  It seems to
       me to be very difficult to exhibit managerial skills unless
       you are already in charge of something.  If you are not 
       particularly enamored of your present (non-managerial) task,
       you will never be promoted to manage anything.  This seems
       particularly true in scientific fields; the most gifted 
       scientists get promoted (which they deserve), but they 
       not necessarily good managers.     

       So what is the way out of this dilemma?  Any other ENTJ's
       feel this way?  

       Karen Zukor
       e-mail:  zukor@logos.jpl.nasa.gov  
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: rlguye@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ron L. Guye)
Subject: One person: Three MBT scores?
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:26:23 GMT


   I've tried the MB test. Quite enjoyed it. I do have a question though.
I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on it. I can take the test,
honestly, three different ways. When I do I consistently rate ESTX,
INFJ, and ENFP. What is wrong here? Split personality? Lack of understanding
of the test? Self delusion? Or is this really normal and I am supposed to
pick the classification I am most often comfortable with? 

Thanks

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson)
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive (II)
Organization: These are my opinions.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:05:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.201519.640@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

>
>Rachel's goal in life is total self-abnegation.  She wants to be a housewife,
>because she thinks that's the most "selfless" thing she could do.  This is in
... [much deleted]
>She wants to be a housewife.  
>She wants to be the one who's always at home, always giving of herself to 
>everyone else and never considering her own needs.  Never even HAVING any 
>of her own needs, if she had her preference.  Totally "at others' 
>service" (husband,children, neighborhood children, & God -- she's very 
>into Turning Herself Over to God's Will, being God's servant, etc.).
>

Bravo, cheers for this young lady! A woman who desires to stay at home
and do the most important work in the world (nurture and care for a family)
is hard to find in this generation. 

I often read Proverbs 31:10-31 to my sons (ages 10 and 12) to show them
the womanly qualities that God wants their wives to have.

Here are verses 10-15:

"A wife of noble character who can find?  She is worth far more than rubies."
"Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value."
"She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life."
"She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands."
"She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar."
"She gets up while it is still dark; she provides food for her family and
portions for her servant girls."

And verses 28-29:

"Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises
her:"
"Many women do noble things but you surpass them all."

We contrast that to the wife described in Proverbs Chapter 6.

Proverbs 6:11 "(She is loud and defiant, her feet never stay at home;
now in the street, now in the squares, at every corner she lurks.)"

Signature follows:
"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life: NO MAN
cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME"  John 14:6
=========================================================================
David L. Hanson       Internet --> dlhanson@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation     X.400    --> A=attmail,P=amoco,S=Hanson,G=David,I=L
Any opinions expressed are my own!
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: jarqui@scorch.apana.org.au (Jared Quinn)
Subject: Re: Parenting Teens
Organization: Craggenmoore public Unix system , Newcastle , Oz
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:01:59 GMT

lynda@mozart.Physics.McGill.CA (Lynda Corkum) writes:

|Hello,

|I would also like to correspond to other parents of adolescent girls. I am  
|the single mother of a 13 year old girl and am wondering if I'll  
|survive!!!

Well I am 15 now and my two brothers are both  almost  teens  (one  is
actually),  his 13 and the other is 12...   Mum is a single mother and
has been for 12 years, dad left when Mum was pregnant with my youngest
brother...  Mum has survived with No apparent damage <grin>...  

You'll  also learn alot my about yourself from raising teenagers, dont
know why... My mum and aunty allways say that.. my aunty is raising  a
14 year old girl at the moment, along with a 7 year old...

|Lynda Corkum
|Montreal
|Canada

-Jared

-- 
			   = Jared Quinn =
                     jarqui@scorch.apana.org.au

		      "I want to break free..."
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive (II)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:46:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.201519.640@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>I am sorry I have not been able to respond to each of your comments separately. 
>I'll try to sort of select common themes.
>
>A number of posts & e-mail letters have suggested something that I think IS
>pretty close to the heart of things here:  That my career wishes/goals *for my
>daughter* and *her* goals/wishes *for herself* are very different.  I AM in
>some ways imposing my views on her, and she IS rebelling against this.  But
>(sorry, maybe I'm just really thick here...) I think I'm *RIGHT* and she's
>*WRONG*.  And I think its due to her inexperience or whatever, and I think I
>have an obligation to provide guidance (if not coercion).
        
There is no such thing as "right" and "wrong" regarding the way you
feel you want to spend your life( assuming that you aren't imposing
physical pain or suffering on others).You have stated that you resent
that your daughter didn't respect that your choice to be a career woman
and now you choose to criticize and try to control her life choices.
You are doing to her exactly what you resent her for doing to you!

I would highly recomend counseling. It sounds to me as though this has
too much history to be solved here. It also sounds as though both you
and your daughter need an advocate, someone who understands how you
are feeling.

There are a lot of old feelings surfacing for both of you as you
struggle around this issue. I hope you can find a way to work them out
now. I find that my similiar struggles with my parents still affect my
life today and I am 37 years old!

Best Wishes, Ruth. I hope you can both find some peace.

rf
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1993 08:32:33 EST
From: susan miles <342DZJY@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive
Distribution: world

It is so hard for us to remember that so many of our own struggles for
independence have made us who we are.  At the same time, knowing what we do
now, it is so difficult to let go and let our children make their own way.
As the parent of eight daughters (now ages 15-22) I am slowly (very slowly)
beginning to realize and understand that what is so important to me is not
necessarily important to them.

I am needing to make hard decisions between what I am able to approve and what
I am able to accept.  Working on that distinction is helping some relationships
with some of my daughters.  An organzation that has helped me keep working to
be the kind of parent I want to be is the Cline-Fay Institute in Golden, CO.
Their books and tapes have provided me with some guidance as well as solace.
Most recently, their book 'Parenting Teens With Love and Logic" (by Foster
Cline and Jim Fay) has been a godsend.  A toll-free number to request a current
catalog is 1-800-338-4065.  I wish I had been aware of 'love and logic'
parenting ten years ago.

Letting go is hard, but it seems the only way to keep the parts of a relation-
ship that are important.  Good luck!

Susan Miles
Reference Librarian
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI  48859
From: jk35+@andrew.cmu.edu (Judith Kane)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: speaker 2/3, 12:00
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:39:40 GMT
Organization: Educational Tech, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Maggie Forbes, Executive Director of the Pittsburgh Museum for Children
is developing programs for children that foster a lifelong love of
learning.  She is making a difference by building bridges within the
community to serve the needs of our younger children.  

Ms. Forbes will be talking on Wednesday, February 3, in Skibo 105 at noon, 
        
                    "What Difference can a Woman Make"


All students, faculty, staff and administrators are invited.  Bring your
sandwich; beverages and cookies will be provided.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: garygm@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gary Brainin)
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive (II)
Organization: Stanford Law School, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:22:38 GMT


In article <1993Jan20.201519.640@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>
>A number of posts & e-mail letters have suggested something that I think IS
>pretty close to the heart of things here:  That my career wishes/goals *for my
>daughter* and *her* goals/wishes *for herself* are very different.  I AM in
>some ways imposing my views on her, and she IS rebelling against this.  But
>(sorry, maybe I'm just really thick here...) I think I'm *RIGHT* and she's
>*WRONG*.  And I think its due to her inexperience or whatever, and I think I
>have an obligation to provide guidance (if not coercion).  Maybe that's not the
>popular view of what parenting is all about, but it's where I'm at (do I need
>counseling to become rehabilitated from this un-PC view?). <sorry for the
>sarcasm; I never thought I'd catch myself saying something like that>


   <grab Ruth by shoulders, SHAKE vigorously until attention is fixed>

   You're not listening.  People aren't saying that you're being a
neanderthal because you're trying to give your daughter the benefit of
your experience.  What they are saying is:

*******************************************************************************
	Your attempts to _force_ your views on her in this way
			  ==> WILL FAIL. <==
*******************************************************************************

   They already have.  In fact, the way you deal with your daughter is
PART OF THE BEHAVIOUR YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.  And until YOU change,
the behaviour simply won't.  Period.

   Think ahead.  You could apply to Great School X for your daughter;
will you force her to go?  What then?  Take classes for her?  Or let
Miss Passive-Aggressive fail out?

   Some time you've simply got to let her do things for herself, by
herself.  Not because it's the right thing to do, but because it's the
_only_ thing to do.  Your only choice is how it happens, not whether
it happens.

   It's not about who's right, it's about who's responsible.  And it's
time for your daughter to take some responsibility.  And she seems to
know it.  That doesn't mean that there's no role for your greater
experience, it just means that it's time for you to shift (gradually)
from being her protector to being her advisor.

   The bottom line is that she won't get the benefit of your
experience until you get _her_ to see that it _is_ beneficial.  And
that clearly won't happen until you change your methods.  Until then,
trying to jam your views down her throat is like trying to teach a pig
to sing.  (It wastes your time and annoys the pig.)

			-Gary

-- 
|Gary Brainin                     |BITNET: garygm%leland.stanford.edu@stanford|
|garygm@leland.stanford.edu       |UUCP: ...decwrl!leland.stanford.edu!garygm |
|"...the right to be let alone-the most comprehensive of rights and the right |
|most valued by civilized men."    Olmstead v. U.S. (Brandeis, J., dissenting)|
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive (II)
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:24:09 GMT
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College
NNTP-Posting-Host: ancho.gac.edu

In article <1993Jan20.201519.640@news.wesleyan.edu>  writes:
>I am sorry I have not been able to respond to each of your comments separately. 
>I'll try to sort of select common themes.
>
>A number of posts & e-mail letters have suggested something that I think IS
>pretty close to the heart of things here:  That my career wishes/goals *for my
>daughter* and *her* goals/wishes *for herself* are very different.  I AM in
>some ways imposing my views on her, and she IS rebelling against this.  But
>(sorry, maybe I'm just really thick here...) I think I'm *RIGHT* and she's
>*WRONG*.  And I think its due to her inexperience or whatever, and I think I

No matter what opinion you reach about anything concerning your daughter, you
must communicate it to her from her point of view. ^She^ makes the decision.
How many things did you learn from your parents? Were any of them *not* learned
the "hard way?"

>have an obligation to provide guidance (if not coercion).  Maybe that's not the
>popular view of what parenting is all about, but it's where I'm at (do I need
>...
>
>A few more facts:
>
>Rachel's goal in life is total self-abnegation.  She wants to be a housewife,
>...

[good background omitted]

>...
>I, Personally, think it would be IRRESPONSIBLE & NEGLIGENT of me (in this day &
>age) to go along with her desires for total self-abnegation.  I think she has
>skills and talents and a whole life in front of her, & I'd REALLY HATE to see

Yes and no. She has the talent, but not access to it. This can only come from
inside of her. You are on the outside of her, and don't have control. Some
ways work and some ways don't.

>her wind up 22 years old, no skills, no job, no money, no education, & a kid of
>her own to support, etc., etc., etc -- like I did.  My life was too hard.  And
>my kid hates me.  I DON'T want to just sit by & watch her dig herself into
>exactly the same hole.  I've tried the "God didn't give you Talents in order
>for you to waste them, He meant for you to use them" approach, but she won't

First of all, this sort of an argument is hokey. It amounts to this: "You should
do X because Y thinks you should." If you could expand this statement; change it
to ^her^ perspective, then you might have something.

What can you do, you might ask? An excellent first step would be to build trust
in your relationship with her; to do this you will have to listen a lot and say
litte, be open-minded about anything, and be flexible in argument.

>talk to me about God or religion (I'm Jewish & she has converted to
>Christianity & believes that Jews are destined to go to Hell). <Another
>decision, BTW, of *hers* which I let her make w/out my interfering...>
>...
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens