HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:49:07 GMT

>yup, there's nothing more fun than being able to squeak 'em in third gear!
>makes the 4 cylinder cars sit up and take notice...
>(makes me feel sooooo high school ;)

I agree.  IT IS a lot of fun to be able to squeak 'em in 3rd gear.
Also, a V8 is simpler than a 16v, 4cyl, turbocharged engine.  That's
one reason why I would like to own a Mustang, the new Camaro, or the
new Firebird.  The 'Vette is out of my price range.  However,
practically speaking, those cars are a pain around here, except on dry
summer days.

Now: let me describe to you another feeling: Being able to USE all
your power.  I live in New England.  Most of the year, you will find
snow, ice, sand, or rain in the road.  Now picture yourself waiting at
a stop sign, trying to make a left turn into a busy avenue, where
traffic flows ~50mph.  Maybe you have never been in that situation on
your area.  If you have, you will be able to relate to this.  If the
road is dry, and your clutch/accelerator control is good, you will
probably do 0-50 in less than 6 seconds with a FWD or RWD car.  But
the road is wet, or if there is sand on the road, forget it.  You'll
REALLY be able to squeak 'em in EVERY gear (and you will probably wait
there forever until there is a long break in traffic both ways).

Next time you go out test-driving, try an AWD Eclipse, Laser, Talon,
Corolla, or Audi.  The Audi and the Toyota are in the upper $20's/lower
$30's.  The Diamond Star trio, on the upper teens.

Now... if Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler would offer their Camaros,
Firebirds, Mustangs, Daytonas, etc. with 160+ hp and AWD for under
$25k, they could count on me to buy one of their products.  Right now,
the Diamond Stars are my only choice.

--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:50:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Tow beast for sale
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.autos



               That's not a tow beast. That's a toy!     A tow "beast"
is a 73 Dodge club cab with a 360 in pastel green with one yellow
fender.  By the way, it's not for sale.  I have a DSR to haul.


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: best car ads
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:41:33 GMT
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <2587@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>My favorite: the National Lampoon ad for Volkswagen, showing a Beetle
>floating in the sea.  "If Ted Kennedy had been driving a Beetle at
>Chappaquidick, he would be president today."

That didn't appear in the magazine itself, but in the first printing of
_National Lampoon Encyclopedia of Humor_, circa 1973.  And it was VW,
not the Kennedy family, that made them pull it.

My favorite ads were the 1-inch, single column ads King Midget used to
run in the back pages of Popular Mechanics, etc....

AWR
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: How to clean you engine? 
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:36:29 GMT

In article <C1Iuxq.Avy@ccu.umanitoba.ca> cshafai@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Cyrus Shafai) writes:
>How do you clean your engine?  Can you use water and mild soap like you
>use for the body of the car?  Is there a danger of shorting some of the
>electrical systems?
>
>Or should you just rub it/the hoses, etc. with a damp cloth?
>I am current just rubbing dirty areas with a damp cloth.
>
uh...i take off all the hoses and belts and run them thru the washer on 'hot'
and then wax them with turtlewax and then soak them in a vat of armor-all...
then i put them back on.  ;)
From: heidenre@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Todd Heidenreich)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1993 Camaro
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:11:28 GMT
Reply-To: heidenre@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Todd Heidenreich)
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <C1I72A.9KG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Am
>in) writes:
>>In article <1k4j9uINNreu@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu writes:
>>>Does anyone have any info such as pricing on these jewels?
>>>rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu
>>>
>>       Around 20K according to C/D's comparo test between the 'stang Cobra,
>>Firebird Formula and Camaro Z28, which it won...
>>
>Too bad its so damn UGLY.  The hood that blends into the mirrrors is the
>most god awfull looking affect since the caprice.  And the front end looks
>like they combined the old camaro with the Geo Storm *gack*.
>
>Jeff
>jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu

It is just personal taste, but I tend to disagree that it is ugly.
I think that it looks quite good.  Anyways, with the 5.7 liter LT1 engine,
the 6 speed transmission, four wheel disc brakes, four wheel ABS, dual
air bags, and 235/55r-16 tires all standard for roughly $17,000 I find
it hard to believe that there is any real competition for this car in
this price range.

I would like to solicit opinions from anyone who would like to express
them.

Thanks,
Todd

*****************************************************************
Todd R. Heidenreich     Code 1261      301-227-1176
Internet: heidenre@oasys.dt.navy.mil
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division HQ, NSWC
"Sometimes your the windshield; Sometimes your the bug" DS
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: torourke@unix1.tcd.ie (Tiernan O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Where is the new Toyota Supra?
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:50:14 GMT

In <wood.727972718@siemens.com> wood@siemens.com (Jim Wood) writes:

>The subject heading asks it all.  I have been looking for this
>car to debut for quite some time, expecting it in January of
>this year.  Where is it?

	I don't know anything about debuts but I saw the new Supra on
the cover of this month's Autocar. (I think it was Autocar.) Wow, is
that a good looking car! It's remarkably similar to the Corvette except
for that big 'whalefinish' spoiler on the back. The interior looks very
nice also with Tan leather which brightens up the cockpit a bit.
	The magazine said it did 0-60mph in 5.1 secs which is fairly
impressive, as is the supposed top speed of over 180mph. And to finish -
I'm sorry I haven't read the article - it has twin turbos!
	That's all I know -- like I said I didn't get to read the
article!
	Tiernan.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Q: how do i know if i need a new catalytic converter?
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:22:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.133753.1522@sco.com>, garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:
|> 
|> In article <hellmann.728020981@sycamore.cs.scarolina.edu> hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Doug Hellmann) writes:
|> >>Good luck . . . Dave
|> >
|> >Also you might want to hold your hand over the end of the tailpipe when
|> >the car is running.  If you don't feel much air coming out, your
|> >converter is probably clogged.  Also, they say to smell the exhaust and
|> >if it smells like sulfur, some sort of terrible chemical reaction has
|> >taken place inside the converter and it should be replaced.  
|> 
|> Wait da minute! If the converter is new, IT SHOULD SMELL LIKE SULFUR.  That's
|> why new cars have that sulfur smell to it when it's running.

The sulfur smell has little to do with converter efficiency.  The sulfur is
directly related to the fuel used, since sulfur is an impurity in modern fuels.
Some of the older dual-bed catalysts would create an ammonia smell due to the
creation of NH3.  When I replaced the cat on one of my cars there was no 
noticeable change in smell for the brand of fuel I used.

Short of measuring the emissions and exhaust backpressure there is now real
easy check for proper operation (especially for the newer 3-way catalysts).
I replaced mine when the rattling of the core resulted in the whole thing 
coming loose and plugging up the exhaust.  There was no doubt that it had to
be replaced in this case.  During the emissions test only 6 months earlier
the car had passed easily.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tasallot@mprgate.mpr.ca (Mathew Tasalloti)
Subject: Re: Best Car ads (was RE: Lexus Commercials)
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 03:24:52 GMT



Ever noticed that the Honda commercials seem real peaceful.  The music
is mellow, the lighting is moderate and the salesman speaks in a soft
easy tone.  Man! you can actually watch these commercials and think 
about THE CAR being sold.

On the other hand, the Ford and GM commercials seem to come out loud,
with some tractor-pull anouncer, and cars flying everywhere.  It's as
if they have to put on an epic to sell a car.  A REAL TURN-OFF.  What
is it with DEALS, DEALS, DAY BEFORE MY WIFE'S BIRTHDAY CLEARANCE DEALS.

I just figure that the calmer commercials like the Honda ones tend to 
make the consumer feel more respect for the car, manufacturer and the
dealer ( well, the dealer part I'm not sure of ).


=============================================******>>

  Mathew Tasalloti		Internet: tasallot@mprgate.mpr.ca
  MPR Teltech Ltd.
  Vancouver, BC, Canada    REMEMBER: Schizophrenia beats being alone!

              <<******==================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: 1993 Camaro
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:22:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.130653.25738@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <C1I72A.9KG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin) writes:
>>
>>	Around 20K according to C/D's comparo test between the 'stang Cobra, 
>>Firebird Formula and Camaro Z28, which it won...
>>
>
>
>Too bad its so damn UGLY.  The hood that blends into the mirrrors is the
>most god awfull looking affect since the caprice.  And the front end looks
>like they combined the old camaro with the Geo Storm *gack*.
>
>Jeff

i too am dissapointed by the huge long curb-scraping snout and the worthless 
huge rear hatchback design.  i guess they were afraid that if they made the
car look different people would get confused and not know where them thar
firebirds and cameros went????
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: mental@cntrol.enet.dec.com (ken mental)
Subject: Dump EEC-IV error codes?
Reply-To: mental@cntrol.enet.dec.com (ken mental)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:40:18 GMT





	Does anybody know how to dump error codes on an '87 Ford Tempo
	(2.3L, FI, EEC-IV computer)? The Haynes manual is useless for this.

	The damn thing won't start. There's spark, and fuel is reaching at 
	least to the throttle body, so I figure that maybe the injector's
	not opening up. I'd like to dump the error codes and see if there's 
	a 'cold start sensor' or something like that that's gone bad.


	Thanks for any help 
	/ken 

--

 				       \  /
Ken Mental			      \	\/ /		Volk swa gen
mental@cntrol.enet.dec.com	       \/\/		Slow keg van
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: TCDEV010@ysub.ysu.edu (Dennis Konik)
Subject: Mercury Villager Inquiry
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:48:54 GMT

I am interested in purchasing a Mercury Villager minivan.  I would like
comments (good and bad) from any owners out there.
 
I am basically looking for a stripped-down base model (no air, no radio).
I would like to know the price paid (even if it includes these options)
along with the options purchased.
 
I would also like to know the dealers invoice price if possible.
 
Thanks.
 
Dennis Konik
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio
From: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell,CitroenMan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:55:18 GMT
Reply-To: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Northwest Citroen Owners Club


In article 17151@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.192014.21045@iqsc.COM> ralf@iqsc.COM (Ralf) writes:
>>  I will give my opinion on one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen,
>>The New Pontiac Grand Am, it is just plain ugly.  The Ford Tempo is one
>>of the weakest in its class, and Nissan's are under - marketed.
>
>Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
>car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
>French car, I think a Renault 6. 
>
>Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Spiros
 
Your playing with me right?  Or is all your taste in your mouth?

Even the R6 isn't nearly as ugly as a Ford Fairmont, older Chev Caprice, etc....

Give me a DS any day!  Still ahead of practically everything out there!

In the words of CAR magazine "God! What a beautiful car!"

Roland
"If its not a Citroen, its just a car!"   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: best car ads
Organization: Free Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:19:22 GMT

I kinda like the new Range Rover ad, the one where they get the truck
to do the cha-cha!

jeff
jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu
From: riggert@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Eric F. Riggert)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Is this a reasonable price for a Bug?
Keywords: money, starving student, transportation
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:35:15 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

A friend of mine is looking at a 1976 Bug for $1300?

Is this a reasonable price?  Seems a little high to me, unless
this thing is some kind of show car... (which I doubt).  Here
in LA, the average Super Beetle is at least 2 colors and more
than likely has primer over the engine compartment to cover 
where the paint was previously burnt off....

Seriously, I haven't seen this car and all I know about it is
that it looks 'OK' and has a radio/tape player.  Further options
are pretty irrelevant in a car of this type since its selling
price has probably pretty much bottomed out anyway.  

My friend is (like me) a starving student, in need of basic 
transportation to get to UCLA for basically as little money as
possible.

Opinions (good bad or ugly) would be appreciated.  Reply or
e-mail me at 'riggert@seas.ucla.edu'

THANKS!!!
--= Eric =--
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: CR's auto ratings (was Re: Before Buying Japanese.)
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:35:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <1993Jan21.182820.796@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>
>Checking the 1993 Buying Guide I find . . .
>
>The Mazda MX-6 and Ford Probe were essentially idenitcal except for
>the 91 model. 
>
>I don't know where they diverge on the assembly line. But that
>one year may have been a fluke. Certainly not enough to hurt the
>credability of the ratings, when you find some many other patterns
>(even the other years for the Prob and Mx-6) with cars.

First of all, keep in mind that their rating methodology isn't very good
from an independent statistics perspectives.  The only info they use is
reader questionnaires (which in itself I find odd; I've been a CR subscriber
for 8 of the past 12 years and *never* got a questionnaire), rather than
studying a random sample of cars.  Therefore, any given trend (e.g. preference
for Japanese models) can be expected to perpetuate itself from year to year.

Look closer at the ratings breakdowns.  Many just Don't Make Sense.

A line-by-line model comparison often shows differences.  For example, some
spot checks on Fords vs. Mazdas show Trouble Index values well out of line with
the individual breakdowns.  An 89 MX-6 Turbo with all "average" except one 
"Worse than Average" and one "Much Worse than Average" ends up with an
"Average" trouble index.  A 90 Probe V6 with all "Average" except one "Better
than Average" and one "MWtA" (electrical system) merits a "Worse than Average" 
overall.  Speaking of electrical systems, they are the same on the MX-6 and the
Probe, yet the MX-6 ratings are all "Average" or "BtA" or "MBtA", while the
Probes are "MWtA" or "WtA" or sometimes "Average".  The Ford ratings are,
in general, rife with such examples.  (Another example: Aerostar 2WD '91, where
it rates "Average" in *every* category yet gets an overall Trouble Index of
"WtA".  Exact same story with '91 Ranger V6 2WD.  '90 Mazda 323 2WD, in
contrast, rated Average in every category except "BtA" in Electrical System,
yet it gets "MBtA" overall.  

'91 Toyota Corolla Trouble Index: "MBtA".  '91 Geo Prizm Trouble Index:
"Average".  Same car, same plants, right?  

Gimme a break!

>John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	


--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

"Platforms are built only for conventions to sit on, and fall into decay as
 of course when conventions adjourn." - Woodrow Wilson
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: drag coefficients (was Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:16:14 GMT
Organization: clearer than blir
NNTP-Posting-Host: stalfos.engr.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan26.193755.17291@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>In article <C1G4G3.113@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda) writes:
>>Before we go overboard on this, recall that even the Eagle Premier
>>has a drag coefficient that bests that of the Ford Taurus. 

>as i recall, the previous generation of the taurus had a Cd of 0.32
>or so.  i'd be very much surprised if the eagle premier had a better
>Cd.  can you give us some numbers?

the car makers have currently more or less settled on 0.29-0.30 as the
practical limit for low drag coefficients.  beyond this other
considerations become more important like trying to keep lift down
rather than go all out for low drag.. (e.g. some cars have sprouted
draggy downforce wings to improve high speed stability)

also, drag is a major contributor to braking at very high speeds.  if
you wanted a super low drag car, you would have needed big, powerful
and expensive brakes if you wanted to responsibly engineer a car,
since a slippery car will go much faster and will have less drag
assistance.

the moral of this is: don't get too hung up on whose Cd is 0.29 and
whose is 0.32.. the makers are not in competition anymore to see
who can come up with the lowest Cd.  if they are bragging about
it, it is simply marketing propaganda.


eliot
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: 585110914@vill.edu (Lonely Wolf)
Subject: Re: Is it OK to wash off the engine?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Villanova University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:19:00 GMT

>>|> In my heartful opinion, you should not wash the engine at all,
>>|> but steam it.  Water will cause rust, but steam wouldn't.

steam/wash... is all water... all can cause rust...however...
there is one very good reason NOT to steam...

the nature of steam cleaning vs liquid water cleaning is simple...
steam consists of superheated water VAPOR... this vapor is made up of
very small parts (water clumps together rather nicely in liquid form)
those very small parts of water are capable of penetrating deep into
the recesses of your engine block, heads, pan, accessories...etc...
from here, the water vapor condenses and can become trapped in the
engine... if you have ever completely stripped a car to the barest of
bones, you may have learned that water will generally not cause rust
unless it has a place to sit... and that is just what it does in your
engine.... steam cleaning, especially frequent steam cleaning may
cause severe internal rusting in the engine.... something which liquid
water cleaning will not usually do... and if it does... you needed a
hell of a lot more than just an engine wash....

BTW... the first thing most used car places do... is steam clean... it
does work VERY well... but it has it's risks... now, you are warned....

BTBTW... i really oversimplified the nature of what water does.. but it
is accurate... being a chemist, i know these things... 8)
Coyote Nizhoni
Michael D. Scoble
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrogr
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:23:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.224224.25065@spectrum.xerox.com> mdennie@beryllium.mc.xerox.com writes:
>In article 9567@en.ecn.purdue.edu, surge@en.ecn.purdue.edu (PhD-in-Training) writes:
>>On a side note the ONLY thing bad about V-8 compared to small
>>engines is the fuel usage.  Extra weight to some extent, but more
>>power can make up for that most of the time 8-).  The big
>>American engines have so much torque...its divine.  Now, some of
>>you can whine about how you can rev up your buzzy 4 cylinder to
>>100,000 rpm and approach to torque of a V-8, but the 8 cylinder
>>has all that power --N O W-- at 2000 rpm.  Not to mention
>>smoothness.  The only drawback is when you have to pay for the fuel.
>>
>>Thus, there is no real excuse for all those gas guzzling turbo-charged
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>4 cylinders in performance cars.  Look at the Diamond Star turbo cars
>>(Eclispe GSX, et. al.) They are heavy and thirsty and fast....so why put
>>up with all the hassles of a turbo???  With an American V-8,
>>they'd just as inefficient, fast, and lot more smooth.
>>
>>--Serge
>>
>
>
>How `bout CAFE standards and the EPA milage tests?
>
>---
>--Matt Dennie                              Internet: mmd.wbst207v@xerox.com

	Well, I guess you could stick a big V-8 into the Diamond Star Triplets,
but would you want to drive the damn thing?  I mean the STS has 295bhp 
delivered to the front and many say it has quite a bit of torque steer.  If
you stuck that engine (or the base Corvette engine) into the DST's, you would
have a hell of a problem, since they are lighter.  I guess you could reserve
the big V-8 for the AWD models and pray that you get the torque split right.
It would work in the 240sx, rear drive, ya'know, but the V-6 is pretty nice.


-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
Newsgroups: rec.autos