HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:12:20 GMT

In article <SMITTIE.92Aug20155201@beach.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>>The clever people are those, surely you are among them, who think
>>criticizing Japanese goverment unacceptable and hypocritical, and the one to
>>be blamed are the people who were once tortured.
>
>You, sir, should spend a little time READING what is posted here. I have posted
>a very clear and exact statement on what I think about the current issue. By
>your post above you have obviously not read it. I suspect that you only read
>and respond to those articles posted here which charge you emotionally. I have
>at no time said, implicitly or explicitly, nor do I believe that criticism of
>the Japanese government is "unacceptable" or "Hypocritical".
>
>There are several contributing to this thread who constantly and continuously
>misquote, twist, take out of context, and otherwise alter the words of other

That's what you had exactly done at the beginning. You jumped in at the middle
of my dicussions with the other people. If you had been more open-minded in thinking
of what I was saying, or, if you had followed my opinions from my first poster about
this, you wouldn't have the problem I mentioned.

(No further comments to the off-point comments here.)

>for their own benefit. As I have said before, whoever posted the original Open
>Letter realizes the need and benefit of allies. However, most people do not
>want to show themselves in support of a movement or group that harbors hatred
>and racists or that manipulates the words of other to their own advantage.
>
>Were that you could dispense with the emotionalism, the racism, the overt
>hatred, and argue your case rationally and logically, I suspect that you would
>find a few willing to ally with your cause. At this juncture I suspect that
>most feel you have already exposed the irrational nature and behaviour to such
>an extent that none will be convinced. A pity that.
>
>smittie
>
>-- 
>___________________________________________________________________________
>GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
>smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
>________________________|___________________________________________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: wohfuchi@splash.Princeton.EDU (Wataru Ohfuchi)
Subject: Re: What do most of Japanese think of Korean (Re: An open letter..)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 04:44:28 GMT

In article <2444@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>Perhaps what you are missing is that Japanese only like Japanese!

  Well, sounds too extreme and simplistic.

[stuff deleted]

>Let me explain: According to what I understand, there are no "human
>beings in Japan". By that, I mean that in the prevailing rehtoric,
>there are only "Japanese" and "Gaijins". When I've asked people I
>know if there is some term in Japanese that means "human being"
>(without any particular cultural/poltical position) they said yes,
>but they don't use it. 

  "Ningen" and "Jinrui" are used very often. They mean any human beings
on the Earth. They sound a little formal, though. OK, even a weirdest
Japanese never claims foreign coutries are outside of the planet. ;-)

>So the Japanese "map of the world" can be drawn with Japan as a
>circle in the middle called "Japan", in which live "Japanese". The
>rest of the world is in the space outside, and is called "Foreign
>Countries" in which live "Gaijin". Within the general class of
>"Gaijins" there are basically two kinds, WASP-like Gaijins (meaning
>White Anglo-Saxon Protestants or something similar) and the rest. 

  Well, sounds too extreme and simplistic again. WASP-like (hakujin=white)
and non-WASP gaikokujin story, however, is more or less true. (see Mr.
Dave McLane's original article)

[stuff deleted]

>Dave
>
>--
>Dave McLane 
>JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
>Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

...Wataru
-- 
  ...Wataru Ohfuchi
     Program in Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, Princeton University
     w1o@gfdl.gov _or_ wohfuchi@splash.princeton.edu
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Godzilla vs Charles Barkely
Keywords: a tv commercial
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:11:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.36844
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

Who is Charles Barkely, and what does this have to do with soc.culture.japan?

-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - I'm not a well adjusted person, but I play one on the net.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
	<1992Aug20.214534.18096@news.iastate.edu>
	<SMITTIE.92Aug20160552@beach.csulb.edu>
	<1992Aug21.002743.15171@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:00:22 GMT

>I would not call you racist or hate monger if you asked them to apologize!

I am not calling you a racist or a hate monger because you are asking for an
apology. In my post titled "On Japanese apologies" I stated my position on the
issue of apologies demands quite clearly. I have said repeatedly that within
the representation of this movement to demand an apology from Japan we have
seen a lot of racist comments and open hatred.

>Chinese should not expect anything(agreement, sympathy, compassion),
>from you guys!

I think that if you read my position on this issue you will find that I am
sympathetic though not quite to the extent that you would like.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:40:26 GMT

In article <7076@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>Never expect an apology from someone that knows you hate
>them. They will not see any point in making an apology,
>and will assume the demand for an apology is only a part of
>your revenge. Please excuse them if they therefore deny the
>validity of your revenge by not giving an apology that will,
>in any case, be ignored.... and yet another demanded.

Of course, this completely overlooks the profuse and extensive apologies 
Germany has given since the end of the war. Note: they have also donated a lot
money to (especially Israel and Eastern nations) those they consider them-
selves to have harmed. I don't recall that they ever demanded that the 
apology be accepted in return.

>Please keep your hate to yourself until you can decide
>exactly what it is you hate. If you hate the past, then
>so be it, but please don't carry your hate into the future,
>or you are no better than what you hate. 

I believe they have decided what it is they hate.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
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man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Flowers to Tokyo
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. 
              One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:38:28 GMT


It was suggested to me by a very intelligent chap (take a bow Bill)
that I might want to send some flowers to someone in Tokyo. I am
very interested in pleasing the lady , since I am also interested in
changing our status from engaged to married one of these days. So...
What kind of flowers should I send and is it inapproprite to send
them to her office? She is an engineer/project leader in a high
tech company.

Other questions would be... How do I arrange for delivery and otherwise
handle the mechanics, besides just going to see the local FDIC (??sp??)
florist?


Charlie

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Learning Japanese in Japan
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:41:27 GMT
	<7055@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
In-reply-to: blamb@rodan.hri.com's message of 13 Aug 92 16:17:30 GMT

In article <7055@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert)
   writes:

 =} [many valid reasons why a waiter/waitress might be rude]

   In some cases, the reasons you suggest seem possible.  However,
IMHO such cases would be in an insignificant minority.  IMHO the
most plausible explanation for the majority of such situations is
xenophobia...

   And the way to deal with such cases depends heavily on the
circumstances.  I have found that in most cases involving waitpersons
one can just be overbearing.  Speak in a quiet but firm voice and
enunciate clearly.  Add a few overtones of anger and the waitperson
will usually wisen up a bit faster.

   In cases where one is asking directions, or for information then
I found that introducing the idea that you are going to ask something
before you ask it avoids the "I don't speak English" response.  A
simple statement like "sumimasen ga, miti ha wakaranaku natte
simaimasita." will usually get things rolling.  And in cases where
it doesn't, one can add something like "miti wo osiete itadakimasu
deshouka?"...  In cases where the person still refuses to accept a
foreigner speaking Japanese one can return the rudeness with a simple
"kimi, nihongo hanasenai no ka?"...  (I haven't used it yet because
my other attempts have worked so far...)

   In cases where one is in a shop and the shopkeeper is playing possum,
one can easily say something like "sumimasen, rousoku ha arimasuka?"...
And if that doesn't work, a simple "ore no kane iranai no ka? ja hoka no
mise de tukau." on the way out the door will might shock them back into
reality...

   I've never had a problem buying tickets so I don't have a solution...
For unreserved seating I usually just say "otona ni mai" (futatu) or
just hold up 2 fingers.  For reserved I say "siteiseki ni mai" (futatu)...
Maybe this was one of the cases Mr. Lambert suggest?  A ticket sales
agent wouldn't likely be asked specifically for "unreserved" seating...
From: borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:28:50 GMT
    <1992Aug16.140030.10294@news.nd.edu> <Bt4KGJ.5n9@doppler.ncsc.org> 
    <1992Aug18.023235.15559@news.nd.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

ylu@bach.helios.nd.edu writes:

>>You use the term "jap" and don't have the balls to leave a signature.  It's
>>jerk offs like yourself that keep things from ever correcting themselves.
>>You show no respect and therefore will get no respect.  Could it be that
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> This sentence should be exactly used to you. That why I call you japs!!!

You dare to call someone who lived and died for their emperor a 'jap'?
A people born and raised on respect, and unafraid to show it? 

>>you are ashamed of who you are.  
>>
> Why should I feel shame! I do'nt rape women, I do'nt kill people in live
> for medical test, I do'nt force Korean girls to service your military men
> But you did!. Who should feel shame!

Ah, but you don't make Sony! Sony and Toyota. Two things *NO* Japanese should
ever be ashamed of. <they don't force tanks over their students, either>

>What you japaness did in china will never be forgot. I hope you do not forget
>atomic bomb neither!

I hope *NO ONE* ever forgets the atomic bomb. Brave Chinese, threatening
nuclear holocaust on an unarmed country.. <even if just in a personal sense> 
That would be almost what? BARBARIC!?!?

>>I invite you to come down here and call me a "jap" to my face.  We'll see
>>what kind of cowardly, stinking, sniveling worm you are.  I suppose though
>>that you will just crawl back into the cesspool you came from.
> 
>you barbarian is not qualified to invited me. 

And Chinese don't seem to be qualified for much at all. What sayest though?
What's the matter? Backwards communism got your tongue?
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* The University of Kentucky is not responsible * AIX: Marketing or lunacy?   *
* for me, by reason of "Bureaucrats Syndrome,"  * "I never used anything by   *
* a crippling form of insanity.                 *  IBM that I liked."         *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:18:21 GMT

In article <Aug16.162535.34168@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.140030.10294@news.nd.edu> ylu@bach.helios.nd.edu writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>> 
>>If a large number of japs think in this way it is dangerous! For our chinese,
>		      ^^^^	
>>the question of how the japs was "tricked" to the war is another subject.
>			 ^^^^
>>on chinese land. Who can say this is not japs responsibility! no matter what
>					  ^^^^
>>Harbor-Atomic bomb, let's go to soci.culture.american group. Here we talk
>>about what japs did in china! Do they need to apology to chinese people,
>	    ^^^^
>>not to american.
>
>	OK, this is enough.  At this point, you seem to have lost your temper 
>	and forgotten respectful way of addressing ANY people.  Probably this
>	is why you did NOT sign your article, isn't it?
>

Yes, one must be polite in any circumstances and should not use any
improper words to call other people. BUT, Mr. Nishimura, it is VERY diffcult
thing to do to be calm when it comes to Japan, Japanase and what they did
during the war and colonial time(I am a Korean myself). 
Sure I bet you will be able to be calm and keep your temper, even if I
kill your brother by cutting his head off, rape your mother, sell your 
sisters to please our soldiers, take evrything you have leaving you starved
to death. Sure, you will be calm, right?
You have to understand our being emotinal and loosing our temper.

>			****************************************
>
>	ANY government in ANY country, I think, can hide the facts from its 
>	people.  Even if it is very limited and sometimes false information, 
>	one's belief depends largely on what you are told first.


I can't agree more.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: guohsu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Reply-To: guohsu@mercury.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Organization: University of Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:17:14 GMT

In article <Aug17.051333.35893@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>>>[stuff deleted]
>> 
>>The Japaness invaded China and killed millions. Some body has to take some
>>responsibility. There are three options:
>> 
>>(1) Japaness's responsibility, then, they have to apology to China.,
>>(2) Chinese's responsibility, 
>>(3) Both Chinese and Japaness.
>> 
>>Which one you choose! 
>>>
>>          Younan Lu, Notre Dame, USA
>
>	I would choose the fourth; the Japanese government at that time should
>	be responsible for the war, and as long as the issue of compensations
>	is concerned, the current government should be.
>
>
					Tetsuya Nishimura
--------------------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya,

Where is the fourth option ?
After reading many follow-ups on the topic, you are one of the few who sounds
reasonable, and did hear different story from what you learnt from
Japanese government.  I believe there are people in Japan sharing a
similar point of view with you, but unfortunately not too many especially 
among the young generation. The danger behind it is Japan "enter" into other
countries may happen again in the future. The only solution to avoid it
is to educate the young generation about the war, tell them the truth, also
remember the Chinese had been generous to Japanese people after WW II, let
the Japanese people learn from the history.

Up till now the Japanese government has done nothing but `changing' history
graduately, and in many cases, does its best to take the advantages of Japan's
currently poor neighbour. It hurts us.

We Chinese will never forget, and will not forgive as long as justice has not
been sought. We will tell our people from generation to generation about the 
Japanese invation to our country, the monstrous crimes committed by Japanese
army during 1931-1945 in our country, and so forth in this respect.

We hope this kind of war may not happen again.
What do you think ?

Cheers !

Guo-Ching Hsu
guohsu@cs.uregina.ca
From: yunson@lpf.umd.edu (Yunson Du)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:21:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

20 century's Greatest man -- Dave said:
 
>Yeah, that's right. Chinese feeling hatred is 100% a Chinese problem. 

>Nobody else can force you to feel one way or the other: feelings are
>your response to some situation. So it really doesn't matter what
>the Japan did or did not do to China: Chinese people are responsible
>for their own emotions. 

>If you believe that your feeling are controlled and caused by
>other people's actions, you might was well give up as I find
>it hard to believe that life would be worth living under the
>circumstances. 

>Dave

>--
>Dave McLane 
>JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
>Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

Are we really crazy for the apology? Do we loss our emotional
control? Hey, man! Give me a break! We believe that there 
should be justice in this world, and sadly, we find that actually 
there hardly exists one. Japan's attitude towards WW2 shows that
clearly. Donot be surprised if someday China attacks Japan. It is
Japan who invites that invasion! 

I think what Dave wants to say is that: Do not ask for apology,
just build yourself up, and then invade Japan!!!

It is that simple!

Yunson Du
University of Maryland
College Park
From: yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Response to the open letter to the Emperor of Japan
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:17:20 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>I suspect that many Chinese choose to keep the past atrocities of Japan alive
>so as to keep the world from focusing on the current atrocities being 
>committed by the current Chinese government.

If you had said "Chinesse govn't choose to ..... to keep the Chinese citizens
from focusing ...", then I might agree.  To be fair, though, it's not just 
Chinese govn't.  I think creating an aritificial enemy or resurrecting old one
is a time-honored way for a desperate government to keep the heat off itself.  
Hitler had his "Jews: Our Enemy" thing, and even Dan Quayle has his 
"The Libral Elite: Our Enemy" deal.  Oooo, those horrible libral elites, 
whoever they are ;-)

Please note: this has nothing to do with whether Japan should apologize 
or not.  Only point here is that you can't blindly trust your govn't, even
in democracy.
From: sakai@csa.bu.edu (Tsutomu Sakai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: 2 questions (was RE: Open letter)
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:36:53 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


     A couple things bothers me.

1)  Mr. Masuda mentioned "joint statement in 1972" several times in his
articles.  I'm interested in this treaty, so please Mr. Masuda, or anybody,
explain this in detail?  (It would be very nice if the one in August, 1978
were also explained).

2)  Does anyone know how old the Emperor Akihito is?  I asked it to some
friends of mine, but they just guessed (late 60's or early 70's); nobody
knew his age for sure.  (Is his birthday a holiday in Japan now?)

     Thank you in advance.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:6982 soc.culture.china:23408 soc.culture.hongkong:9953 soc.culture.taiwan:12119
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:13:56 GMT
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center

In article <1992Aug18.143642.24921@mic.ucla.edu> hudson@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (David Hudson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.125932.1561@merlin.hgc.edu> sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas) writes:
>>
>>In article <Bt4KGJ.5n9@doppler.ncsc.org> shjnaga@ncsc.org (Rodney Shojinaga) writes:
>>
>>>Okay slim bucket, you got the response you wanted.  Why don't you go 
>>>perform lewd acts with yourself.
>>>
>>>You use the term "jap" and don't have the balls to leave a signature.  It's
>>>jerk offs like yourself that keep things from ever correcting themselves.
>>>You show no respect and therefore will get no respect.  Could it be that
>>>you are ashamed of who you are.  
>>>
>>
>>When the Pearl Harbor was bombaded, every newpaper in US called the
>>invaders, JAPs, except one, the New York Times. It was because they were
>>just angry. What are yo going to do with those news papers that used term
>>JAPs? Burn their buildings? Angry people can use any words they like to
>>describe or offend intentionally the ones they love to hate, although I am
>>not justifying it. Looks like you were born and raised here and has no  
>>concerns for what Japan did and were just pissed by a nasty word. 
>
>	In an arguement where you want to bring some sort of
>understanding of your position, using epithets is not an efficient
>way of doing so.  Calling the Japanese "JAPs" will simply     
>antogonize the listener and promote more bad feelings rather
>than provide sympathy for your point.  I am a Japanese-American
>born here and have been called a "Jap" quite a number of times.  I am 
>very concerned with what Japan did during WWII and am willing to
>listen to arguments by people of all nationalities about Japan's past
>atrocities.  However, calling me a "Jap" makes me think that the 
>speaker cannot channel his or her opinions and stance through
>effective debate, but must rely on easy epithets in order express
>anger.  If I debated with a person using words such as "chink",
>"gook" or "flip", I would not expect the listener to sit there
>and not take issue with my attitude.  So don't get indignant
>when Japanese people get upset when they hear the word "Jap".
>A good argument will change people's minds, not insults.
>
>					Dave
>


I think I have to clarify everything. I didn't mean it is O.K. to use
some slanderous words to call other people. Personally, I never use
those words, because I feet hurt myself whenever I am called by those
names. To all people upset by my posting, I have to appologize for what
I said. So let me out this flame. 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:6713 soc.culture.china:23036 soc.culture.hongkong:9803 soc.culture.taiwan:11905