HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ron@wc07.yorku.ca (Ron Sheese)
Subject: Re: China's economic struct... an analysis
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
	<1992Nov13.201611.12578@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Nov14.070138.24736@usl.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:12:51 GMT

### On Sat, 14 Nov 1992 07:01:38 GMT, kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng) said:

Du% In article <1992Nov13.201611.12578@athena.mit.edu> joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:
>In article <RON.92Nov12002529@wc18.yorku.ca> ron@wc18.yorku.ca (Ron Sheese) writes:
>
>I suspect that if the TAM movement had succeeded, the PRC would be in
>a lot better shape.  The Party would probably be led by Zhao Zi Yang,
>who would have enough popularity to pull the nation through economic
>retrenchment.  The political system in the PRC would be a lot more
>open, and one could seriously be proposing "one country, two systems"
>as a solution to Mainland/Taiwan affairs.
>
>

I strongly support what Du said.  Here is a citation mislead.  The
above is not what I said <From Ron Sheese>.  That is belonging to
Joseph C Wang.

I will not cite the whole article of Du again.  But I recommend people
to read his article.  There are numbers of good points.

Why people here thing the 1989 movement was totally for democracy and
every people there was fighting for democracy.  That was a media lead
from west.  The leading force of the west society wanted to tell
people around that Chinese was up for democracy.

Actually, I THINK, the majority of people at that time is up for two
reasons: great unsatisfaction towards goverment reaction and worrying
of their life due to the unforseeable future at that time.  I don't
think the living was much worsen which made people unbearable then.

cheers
--
This a non-colourful .sig like me.  people hate to be usual.
ming he		ron@reader.yorku.ca
From: ~~{5K~~}@bunny.rhic.bnl.gov (~~{5K6,F=~~})
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: U.S. -China Act of 1992 (China's MFN)
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:46:17 GMT
	<RON.92Nov12004944@wc18.yorku.ca>
Organization: ~~{W<9bKYVX@kWS6TW2;z~~}(Au+79)-> Little BIG BANG <-(Au+79)

>>>>> In article <RON.92Nov12004944@wc18.yorku.ca>
>>>>> "Ron" == Ron Sheese <ron@wc18.yorku.ca> writes:

  Ron> Su% Tibet is a part of China.  To put Tibet at the same position as
  Ron> China is Su% wrong.

  Ron> 	Did U.S.A. government recognize Tibet as a part of China?  If
  Ron> so, is What those U.S.A. parliament members did against the law?

I don't think there's a law to prohibit anyone not to recognize any other
country. What happened just goes to show some US Congressmen's poor taste and
lack of respect and courtesy, they are deserved to be questioned as having
unspeakable ulterior motives ;-).



--

~~{5K6,F=~~}
From: wwxiong@atlantis.ksu.ksu.edu (Weize Wade Xiong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Too many political talk in this group.
Date: 17 Nov 1992 13:50:41 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.ksu.ksu.edu


Hi there,
I think these group is about Chinese culture. If anyone want to post an artical
about politic of China, please post them under the group "talk.politic.China".

Thanks.
From: pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Seals versus signatures
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:05:39 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: blackjack.ai.mit.edu

In China, as least it seems to me, seals are used by common people as a kind
of authenticity assurance, such as receiving registered mails and food
coupons, while signatures are used for more dignified occasions, such as
treaties.

In America, it is almost the opposite.  Signatures are common place while seals
are reserved for serious occasions.

Has anyone noticed this difference?  More importantly, well, if I can use that
word, has anyone studied the difference and has results to share with us?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: RE CMFN
Keywords: China
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:16:30 GMT

In article <Bxzq8D.AG@math.uwaterloo.ca> yma@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (William Yan Ma) writes:
>
>How much you know that CMFN will push the Chinese government to release
>the political prisoners? Being a Chinese, I think they will not give up
>at this point. Actually, they could release Sheng Tong, they could release
>Wei Jingsheng, Wang Juntao, Chen Ziming, Zhang Yafei, etc. They might release
>them if CMFN was going to pass. But you know, once it passed incidently,
>I don't think the Chinese government will give up any more. That will
>be really a bad result which is not expected by us.

Dear William, your analyses is very plain. You don't have to be a
Chinese to think in this way. But being a Chinese, I also think
it is not whether they would release the prisoner or not. In fact
it is a matter of whether they should release political prisoners
or not.

Holding political prisoner is against the progress of human society. Imagine
Martin Luther King were jailed. Think when Zhang Zhixin was jailed and killed.
Think when Deng Xiaoping and Zhao Zhiyang lost their freedom for
expressing different political opinions. Or even think Jiang Zeming
would be jailed after Deng Xiaoping's death. I would say human right
is good to everybody. But in the meanwhile everybody has to yield to
others for their freedom of expression.

I read a news from World Journal which made me feel sad. It was reported
that Deng Xiaoping asked Jiang Zeming to take care of his family after
his death. Deng Xiaoping was afraid that his family would be treated
the same way as Mao's after his death (which he can not control). He
promised to support Jiang Zeming the best he could, including stripping
the millitary power of Yang's brothers.

For me, I would never want to see Deng's family being treated badly
after his death. Zhuo Lin is an innocent woman and so are many of his
family members. Besides Deng Xiaoping did make a lot of positive
contribution to China in the last 15 years (I meant to write my personal
thank to him in my Ph. D. thesis acknowledgement, I dropped it after
the so-called anti-spiritual pollution movement).

I think the best way to regain his reputation is to correct his mistake
in 6/4 and release political prisoners held after 6/4. People used to
love him and to greet him: Hello Xiaoping. Why did people smash little bottles?
If he does apologize, not only he has not to worry about his family, he will be
forgiven and become the greatest man in the Chinese history.
From: pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best-buys
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:19:30
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: blackjack.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: 's message of Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:11:08 EST

    From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
    
    The two legs + two feet.
    High intelligence, automatic route recognition,
Caution: you still can be drunk and driving.
    parking ticket free, speeding ticket free,
Caution: trespassing is prosecutable.
    convenient and cheap fuel,
It may be tasty but not exactly cheap and convenient...you have to refuel
three times a day, 20min each...preparation takes 30min each...cannot do much
else while refueling... 
    excellent integrity, 
Political drivers excluded...
			 easy fix,
Health care reform!
    inherent insurance, 
I think some %%% went uninsurred?
			reasonable pollution(cyclable),
The source of all pollutions.
    .....
    
    Disadavantages:
    fragril, limited speed but easy speed shift (by flight),
    .....

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: What the HK governor is doing?  Why?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:36:47 GMT

In article <BxzK6J.GGp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Lian Zheng <LZHENG@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>What is the HK governor doing ? and why?
>...
>   The people in HK are very good-hearted people, (look at their reaction 
>to 6.4,  to the flood relief in China),  they desreve democracy to protect
>themselves against possible troubles in the future.  But they need to
>be careful to those who use the name of democracy for other purposes. 

	Even if HK people are not good-hearted, they still deserve democracy.
	Why is this pre-condition even needed to be mentioned?

	Sure, we can second guess the political intent of HK governor,
	but if that is what HK people wants then that is what counts
	the most.

	For people from China, I think they should provide more support
	to HK people's needs in obtaining more political power in HK;
	The more HK people have by 1997, the more and sooner people in
	China will get after 1997 for themselves of the political power
	in changing China. If HK people can't get it now, it is very
	unlikely people in China can get it in the future.

Yung-Kao Hsu
From: wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: questions of the Korean WAr
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:23:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: gaia.1ehlntINNbb
Distribution: world
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu

Dear netters,

I recently saw a program of the Koeran War.
I wonder why the U.S. didn't get a victory
in that war.  The U.S. troops are much stronger
than North Koeran and Chinese troops by the
mean of equipments.  The same force with the 
same general, General McArthur, defeated Japanese
troops in the Pacific, but were frustrated by
North Korean and China.

Which side did most Korean people support?
Was the conflict between General McArthur and
President Truman(spelling ?) a big cause of
the non-victory ending?
Did the U.S. force fight as hard as they did
in the WWII?
Did North Korean and Chinese forces push the 
U.S. force back by vast number of troops?

Should or shouldn't the U.S. enter the war if the UN
didn't make a decision to help South Korean?
Should or shouldn't China enter the war?

What was the reason of North Korean's invasion at
the beginning of the war?  

The program I saw called the Korean War a forgotten
war.  What do you think is the biggest reason
that most Americans don't talk about this war so much?

Thank you for your attention.

Wen Zongyao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zeng@ecf.toronto.edu (ZENG Roger Wei Gang)
Subject: Re: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best-buys
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:20:49 GMT

My list of ten best cars:
1. Ferrari F-40
2. Acura NSX
3. Mitsubishi 3000GT
4. Nissan 300ZX
5. Toyota MR2

6. Mercedez-Benz 560 convertible
7. Nissan Maxima
8. Toyota Camry V6 SE
9. Honda Accord EX-R
10. Honda Civic del sol

As for best buys, I really can't tell. NSX probably is the best if you have
a lot, and I mean a lot, of money. Otherwise 3000GT is a good choice for
middle class people. As for poor guys like me :^), Civic del sol seems like
a good compromise.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: qian@fzi.de (Yi Qian)
Subject: Test
Organization: Forschungszentrum Informatik Karlsruhe (FZI)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:25:54 GMT
From: kzhan@sgi1 (Kaijun Zhan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best-buys?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 02:34:37 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Guelph
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

mece1us@jane.uh.edu wrote:
: I had very good discussion with a chinese gay ( short term as C) and a French 
                                            ^^^what is that?
: gay (as F below) about world economics and especially about cars. C thought that
: Japanese cars are the best, by looking at quality and price, and also from that
: most classmates bought Japanese car. And F responsed him by asking him to list
: ten best cars in the world. Will someone give me a clear idea what the ten
: best cars are in the world, what is your reason?
: 
: 
: Thanks.
How many cars you have?
--
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
 KAIJUN S. ZHAN                          || (519)824-4120 Ext. 8325/6558        
 Internet:kzhan@sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca||                                     
 Internet:kzhan@sgi2.mathstat.uoguelph.ca|| "Three generates everything".       
 Internet:gilwf16@vm.uoguelph.ca         ||                                    
                                         ||      -- Lao Zi (Old Man)
                                         || Comment: no comment.          
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 10:14:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.154744.7799@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.031407.21695@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng) writes:
>>
>>We can only determine whether or not we are hurt by CMFN, but we can not
>>determine whether or not people in China are hurt by that.  But at least, based 
>>on my judgement and interest, those so-called democratic activitists, who
>>promote CMFN, are political prostitutes.   What I am doing here is to
>>raise the question and let everyone, who is interested in, make his own
>>judgement.   If majority of CSSers on this net think they are political 
>>prostitutes, it means that they are treated as political prostitutes
>>other than democratic activities on this net.  If majority of Chinese
>>people think that the CMFN promoters are political prostitutes, it thus
>>means that those promoters are treated as political prostitutes in the
>>Chinese society.   So, if the activities of promoting CMFN are
>>continued, I will continue to raise the question above based on my point
>>of view. 
>>
>> 
>>J Su
>>
>
>No one wants to prevent you from raising the question about "political
>prostitutes". I was merely trying to answer with a "No".
>
>And I hate to be the one to tell you, but neither this net, or China is
>a democracy.
>
>Mark
>
Do you mean the "democracy" for you to hurt others ?

J Su

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zeng@ecf.toronto.edu (ZENG Roger Wei Gang)
Subject: Re: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best-buys
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:03:41 GMT

In article <92324.222909SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu> <SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <19NOV199213025924@jane.uh.edu>, mece1us@jane.uh.edu says:
>>
>>I had very good discussion with a chinese gay ( short term as C) and a French
>>gay (as F below) about world economics and especially about cars. C thought   t
>>tha
>>Japanese cars are the best, by looking at quality and price, and also from
>>that
>>most classmates bought Japanese car. And F responsed him by asking him to list
>>ten best cars in the world. Will someone give me a clear idea what the ten
>>best cars are in the world, what is your reason?
>>
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>  Tell your C & F don't toooo addict  to the best cars. There are something
> better than best cars, such as women. -)  No offensive.

Just a thought, ever heard of the saying that a car, for man, is a extension
of penis? So probably we're talking about the same thing here.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 12:41:12 EST
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What pride to take in being a Chinese?

>From: zeng@IASTATE.EDU (Shaohui Zeng)
>Subject: What pride to take in being a Chinese?
>Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 16:43:49 GMT
>
>I was told to be proud of being a Chinese since I was young. Now I am
>lost as I come up with this question, what pride to take in being a
>Chinese?
> (deleted)

              Each nation has a lot to be proud of and shamed of as
              well. Every person has his own pride and shame.
              It doesn't mean that he should not be proud because of
              the shame.

              Being proud as chinese doesn't mean rejecting other
              peoples.

              Open mind, open  heart, open ... ( not too much hopefully).
              You have nothing to lose.

              X Xu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xic@utkvx2.utk.edu
Subject: Re: Deng Xiaoping = Angel ?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:13:00 GMT

In article <92322.101314PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu>, <PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu> writes...
>In article <1992Nov16.174846.10199@news.acns.nwu.edu>, carl_@nwu.edu says:
>>
>>Among the leaders in CG, I like Deng Xiaoping best. It seems to me that he is
>>a
>>non-communist among the CCP leaders. Compare to Mao, he is an angel while Mao
>>is a devil. I like him because he is practical and puts emphasis on economics.
>>I still remember his good economic policy in early 1970s that brought many
>>Chinese relatively better lives then. I hope he can live longer and thus give
>>China a period of time of stability and economic growth. It's more healthy to
>>pursue democracy and freedom based on the relatively developed economy.
>>
>>Carl
> 
>He'd better find someone to blame for the 6.4 killings, or most chinese people
>will not forgive him, I think.
> 

If we want to evaluate Chinese leaders, we have to realize that what they
are thinking about is how to maintain their power.    It is for sure that
there are different ways to maintain their power, and it is what we see
about them.   It is known that the power is everything.  Lin Biao might be 
the first one among the Chinese leaders who wrote it on paper, but it is
in the heart of all the Chinese leaders.   Chinese people know it well, and
it is the reason  why there is no good leaders on the power, only better ones.

In China, the democracy and the good economic policies are by-products of the
stratagy of the leaders to maintain the power.  There can be any kind of 
freedom in case it will not directly put the leader's power in danger.  
If somebody said that Deng turned to the conservative in late 1980's,  it is
him who put Wei Jingsheng in jail in the begining of 1980's.  

It is funny that somebody said there were only one and half good leaders
in Communist China.  The first one is Peng DeHuai, the half is Zhao ZiYang.
The reason is that they stand in the side of people and lost power.
I think there might be others, such as Hu Yaobang and so on.  But, what I 
can say that all of them did not realized that they may loss power before
or after their incidence.  I am wondering if there was anyone among 
Chinese leaders who stand in the people's side eventhough he knew that 
it might cost his power?  

Anyway, to say something about Deng, please recall what Wei Jingsheng said
more than 10 years ago.   I memtion this name again with high respect.
Although he is not Ph.D, professinal politician, or any other titles
people respect, he correctly predicted what happend 10 years later and 
give us his warning long time ago.  For the young people here who are
interested in the discussion about China, you can not afford it if you
missed what Wei said 13 years ago.

I was not a big fun of Wei 10 years ago, I am sorry to say it.  But, I
believe that his name will be put into Chinese Comtemporary History, just
like Zou1 Rong2, Chen2 Tien1jue2 and Qiu1 Jin3.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jyao@woof.osf.org (Jie Yao)
Subject: Re: Chinese characters and sorting, collating, etc.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:20:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.194233.15719@netcom.com>, kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
|> I have some questions about Chinese characters from a database weenie's
|> perspective :-)  
|> 
|> In most alphabetic languages, there is a well-defined scheme for ordering
|> the characters which define less-than, greater-than, and equality properties
|> for characters - ie 'A' < 'B' < 'C' ... < 'Z' in English.  I've talked with
|> several Chinese friends about this problem and it seems that there are several
|> "dictionary orderings" in Chinese, all of which require "reading" the character
|> to get the number of strokes, etc.
|> 
|> Also, while one could just assign an arbitrary ordering for indexing purposes,
|> "human useful" sorting would require conversion functions to generate the
|> numbers for useful sorting.
|> 
|> Does anyone know where there are papers on such problems?  And does anyone
|> know what ordering scheme was used in ISO-Unicode?
|> 
|> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
|> MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
|> kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
|>                                     |
|>                                     | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake

The ordering of a national char set has to be provided by the government or its
associated standard organazation. So, it can be consistently used. For example,
Taiwan defined a Chinese char set (CNS11643). There is also a standard for
ordering and date format, etc. for this Chinese locale. This standard is provided
by III, Taiwan. I haven't found a Chinese locale provided by PRC (based on the
PRC standard GB2312). Since POSIX.2 is a standard now, I think they will provid
one very soon. If you know there is one, please let me know.

-- 
Jie Yao				jyao@osf.org
Open Software Foundation	uunet!osf.org!jyao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xzg1397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Xin Zhou )
Subject: millitary training cancelled
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: soc.culture.china
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:33:40 GMT

 As I know , the one-year millitary training has already been cancelled
 at least in Fudan University . 

 Have fun .
From: gong@cs.uq.oz.au (Ming Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Shame on you, godless Chinese!
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:24:10 GMT
Reply-To: gong@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1992Nov11.180932.17377@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> dh5m@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Donghai  Huangfu) writes:


>It was told that the total amount of Christians is around 60 million
>in China (mainland). Is She a No. 1 country?
 
I believe you are talking about Catholicates, am I right?