HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rc@depsych.Gwinnett.COM (Richard Carlson)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Phobia/Alcohol info needed!
Date: 27 Sep 92 14:01:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: depsych.aHJRRB1w164w

dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

> Help!
> 
> Third year law student in trial practice NEEDS info on the effects of alcohol
> on claustrophbia and other anexiety disorders when the alcohol wears off
> and the person finds themselves in a small space (holding cell).
> 
> Basically the fact patter is the police arrest a person who has fallen asleep
> after a few (2-6) beers. They throw him into a cell WITHOUT any Miranda
> warnings. he sobers up and the phobia sets in. He confesses. Tells everything
> just to get out of the cell into a larger, brighter lit one.
> 
> This is a made up fact pattern, so don't worry about helping a murderer get
> back out on the street.
> 
> Any help on learned treatesis I could dig into would be GREATLY appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Darrell

I'm responding to this original post, but I did see the subsequent
flame thread.

You'd think that the obvious relationships would be documented
somewhere.  It's been a clinical observation that phobic and
anxiety patients often have a secondary substance abuse problem
which exacerbates the original anxiety disorder.  I have made the
clinical observation that my phobic patients are _more_phobic_
during abstinence syndrome or withdrawal, but if no one has
gathered systematic data I guess you have to appeal to common
sense.

In a recent made-for-TV movie about some Canadian boys who
murdered an AmerIndian girl -- can't remember the name of the film
-- the cop hero throws the alcoholic murderer into jail at the
beginning of a weekend in an attempt to do exactly what is being
done to your client, but the killer's lawyer threatens a suit for
damages when the killer goes into convulsions, so the police have
to let him go.

It struck me as an abuse of police power, but apparently if there
isn't a right explicitly guaranteed it's not there, even if it
would seem to be in accord with the "sense" or "spirit" or the
constitution.

--
Richard Carlson
Internet:              rc@depsych.gwinnett.COM
Bangpath:              {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!depsych!rc
CompuServe:            76605,470
Voice:                 (404) 881-6877
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: paging E.F.Loftus (U of Wash)
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:29:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada


Anyone know an e-mail (or surface mail) address for Elizabeth F Loftus
at the U. of Washington?  If someone can send me this, or if some kind
person with a real internet connection could search for it with the
network 'finger' and send me the output, I would be most grateful.


--
Gary Lawrence Murphy/murphyg@software.mitel.com/mitel!software!murphyg@uunet.ca
 Mitel Corp - 350 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada - (613) 592-2122 x3709
         "If you feel no shyness around the person you love,
            then you are probably not in love." --- Morita
From: bjm@altair.csustan.edu (Barb Moose)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: reliability via e-mail
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:35:24 GMT
Organization: California State University, Stanislaus
Originator: bjm@ceti.csustan.edu

Hi all-

I am getting ready to crank up the old research, and am wondering if
anyone out there has any information on reliability of data obtained
via e-mail.  I would like to do a study using in person data collection
and then compare it to data received by e-mail; has anyone else already
done this and I am repeating something?  I checked the usual sources
like Psych-Lit with no luck.  Any info will be appreciated.....  

Barb
-- 
       ______
       \    /  bjm@ceti.csustan.edu
        \  /   Barb Moose
	 \/
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: rc@depsych.Gwinnett.COM (Richard Carlson)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.postmodern
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Bullies and Wimps
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:26:04 GMT

jchason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Julie Chason) writes:

> Please tell me what you mean by deconstruction.  Leaving aside the issue of
> experimental testing, what you have done seems to be a psychoanalytic, not a
> deconstructive reading.

I think we have now realized that psychoanalysis is actually a
hermeneutic rather than positivistic enterprise.  Psychoanalytic
"interpretation" is a kind of close reading that shades into
deconstruction (e.g., by way of Lacan's structuralism).

Actually I think I'm confused by the same kind of thing that Freud
mentioned several times, especially in his critiques of art and
sculpture -- the beauty vs. meaning duality.  Freud's methods
really couldn't distinguish between themes in the dreams and
phantasies of ordinary, everyday untalented neurotics and themes
as they were used by creative artists in works most people would
call "beautiful." [I'm following the thread in alt.postmodern on
the Kantian view of beauty with interest even though I haven't got
anything useful or interesting to say on it.]  The kinds of
narratives I'm interested in studying -- either addressed
specifically to a juvenile audience (e.g. books like _What a
Wimp_, which relates a fifth grader's run-in with a bully) or
intended for a mass audience (e.g. _The Fresh Prince_ on TV or
_Child's Play_ in the movies) are not literary masterpieces.  You
are definitely not thrown into a state of awe reading or viewing
them the way you might be listening to Hamlet's soliloquy.

Sometimes I think I'm closer to social learning theory than to
either psychoanalysis or deconstruction in that it is the function
of the fictional characters (personas, actants, archetypes,
whatever) as role models who legitimate certain behaviors as
"normal" (both in the sense of "typical" and "correct") that is
the focus of interest.

> You may consider keeping such postings to alt.postmodern.  Please don't 
> assume I'm telling you where to post and not to post, but after all, the 
> other group is SCI.psychology, so you can expect to get replies demanding tha
> you be scientific.  These by definition address different issues than those
> considered in alt.postmodern.

Some day I'll engage the dust bowl empiricist folks on the issue
of who owns the term "science," sort of the way the Democrats are
taking on the Republicans over who owns the American flag and
family values.

It may be that you _can't_ make an empirical science out of
psychology because of the complexity of the phenomena to be
accounted for.  But at the very least I think most contemporary
psychologists accept hermeneutic and semiotic methods as a part of
psychology.  As far as the literal "PSY" in the name of the
Newsgroup is concerned, until we have a separate herm.psychology
Newsgroup we'll all just have to post here.

--
Richard Carlson
Internet:              rc@depsych.gwinnett.COM
Bangpath:              {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!depsych!rc
CompuServe:            76605,470
Voice:                 (404) 881-6877
From: steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: NLP and what the .... are we talking about???
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:28:04 GMT
Organization: Don Steiny Software

ohumukin@spectra.com (Kawika Ohumukini) writes:

>>|> Rule #1 in NLP is that nothing is true or real.  
>>|> 

>	I don't claim to subscribe to any of the above, I let you
>	decide which one.  What I do subscribe to is results.  

>	"What is true or real to YOU may not be what is true or real
>	 to ME."

>	I hope this clarifies that statement, I welcome comments.
>	Have a great day!

	How is NLP supposed to help communication if it denies the existance
of shared experience?  It seems that it would preclude the possiblity
of communication rather than enhance it.


-don
-- 
Don Steiny
Don Steiny Software
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(408) 425-0382
From: ohumukin@spectra.com (Kawika Ohumukini)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: NLP and what the .... are we talking about???
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:46:36 GMT
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation

In article <1992Sep29.070038.17576@pony.Ingres.COM> jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
>Kawika Ohumukini writes:
>
>> What I do subscribe to is results.  
>
>And how do you measure them?

	By my values and beliefs which are dynamic.
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Phobia/Alcohol info needed!
Date: 26 Sep 92 08:18:11 EST
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1a030dINNb01@smaug.West.Sun.COM>, dab@ism.isc.com (Dave Butterfield) writes:
> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>>> This is a made up fact pattern, so don't worry about helping a
>>>> murderer get back out on the street.
>>> 
>>> Should we not worry about helping a future lawyer practice the
>>> art of getting murderers back out on the street?
>>
>> Just for your information... my "client" is not going to walk free.
> 
> Then, oh Master of Rhetoric, why is it relevant that the fact pattern
> was made up "so" we don't have to worry about that?

Because some people out there might have reservations about helping to free a
real murderer, whereas most who would have the information might be willing to
help in a mock proceeding.

> 
>> But, I suppose you would ENJOY having the police treat you that way,
>> right sport?
> 
> Not at all.  I applaud efforts to enforce the rules that cops are
> supposed to follow.  *You* were the one who implied that it might be
> relevant whether your "client" was really a murderer we might help
> to put back on the street.  If that were the real issue (which I
> don't agree with, but I'll accept for the sake of argument), then
> helping someone to learn how to do that might be just as bad.  So I
> asked my question.

The entire line of reasoning you propose in the above paragraph totally ignores
the fact that people are people, and have built in biases. Answer me two
questions:

1. Would you be willing to play Charles Manson in a class project?
2. Would you be willing to copy the things Charles Manson did in your real
life?

If you can see a distinction between those two hypos, maybe you can see how
some people who would help out the mock trial would be hesitant to actually aid
a real murderer.

Unless, of course, you doubt people have such biases.


> 
> You seem a bit defensive.  Perhaps we can help you with that.

I am sure you could. You could start by not tossing out flip remarks.

> 
>> Here is a nickle. Go out and buy yourself a life, and
>> bring me back the change.
> 
> Ah, a demonstration of your creative and reasoning abilities.  Maybe
> you could try that response next time you're in front of a "judge".

Only if you were opposing counsel.

> 
> Cheers!
> -- 
>                   The U.S. constitution has its flaws,
>           but it's a damn sight better than what we have now!

Now, can we drop this flame fest? The only reason I posted to this newsgroup
was to see if someone had information on alcohol/phobia/claustraphobia
interaction. I do not wish to debate with anyone on here anything.


Darrell




Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.postmodern
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Bullies and Wimps
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:29:31 GMT


What experiment would you devise to test any of this?

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: ben@archsci.arch.su.oz.au (Ben Colbron)
Subject: Re: NLP and what the .... are we talking about???
Organization: Design Computing Unit, The University of Sydney
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:29:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.173929.14613@spectra.com>, ohumukin@spectra.com (Kawika Ohumukini) writes:

|> Rule #1 in NLP is that nothing is true or real.  
|> 
|> Kawika


In saying that nothing is true you must either claim that *that*
proposition ('nothing is true') is itself true, and if so, it 
contradicts the original claim, or you must admit that the
proposition 'nothing is true' is not itself true. Clearly, this
claim is self-reflexive: i.e., it is no proposition at all because
it raises no issue of truth or falsity.

There is folk-psychology and there is science. Then there is simple
logic. To which do you subscribe?

Ben
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: cmt2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christopher Mark Thompson)
Subject: Info Learned Helplessness
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:05:00 GMT

	I am interested in finding any published studies or
articles concerning learned helplessness.  Any information I
can get would be greatly appreciated.  My understanding of
learned helplessness is very basic.  I am aware that it is a
condition resulting from a child being exposed to an
environment in which it receives all "pain" or all "reward" no
matter what he/she does.  Thank you for any help I receive.

                                  Chris Thompson
Xref: sparky sci.psychology:3932 alt.postmodern:2414
From: adlx@quads.uchicago.edu (alan d legrand)
Subject: Re: NLP and what the .... are we talking about???
Reply-To: adlx@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:06:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.194513.165594@ua1ix.ua.edu> elane@ho07.eng.ua.edu (Elizabeth Lane) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.014102.18423@pony.Ingres.COM> jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
>>
>>As is customary with these kinds of statements, neither
>>the teller nor the listener understands the physics
>>referred to.  Yet it is used as an example and usually
>>accepted as a valid one.  Perhaps to some it then appears
>
>My, my. Aren't *we* hostile. Thans for pointing out my complete and
>utter lack of understanding. I suppose it's my own fault for basing my
>statements on such widely scorned books as _The Dancing Wu Li Masters_, 
>_The Tao of Physics_, _A Brief History of Time_, and _Stalking the Wild
>Pendulum._ Were a *real* scientists, I wouldn't have wasted my time
>with books that present the concepts of physics in comprehensible
>prose.
>
(mildly irrational mode on)

 I took exception with your statements as well and did not find his
reply testy.  Further you have still not given any concrete examples
rather you have resorted to a list of authorities and have still not
supported your statements.

I have some understanding of PHYSICS:  to my knowledge It is not neccesary
to accept any of it on FAITH.  Physics and the fields of Chemistry, biology,
mathematics, etc. do not require FAITH.  Either something works and has 
explanatory power or it is replaced with something else which does. Everything
is tested, repeatedly.

Contrary to your other assertion the belief that the universe had a beginning
is also not an article of faith for PHYSICS. The "Big Bang Theory" is just
that a theory.  It has remarkable explanatory power, i.e., The radiation back
ground of the universe.  Perhaps you incoporated knowledge from the bible for
this statement( In the beginning ....)


>>Either find an example we can understand or make your
>>point without.
>

The fault was not with the books you used to support your statements
rather it was that you had no examples to support your assertion that
some aspects of physics require faith.  GIVE US A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE!!!


>If we were all to post only articles that the collective "you" can 
>understand, it would bring conversations on the networks to a screeching
>halt, and remove any potential for learning and intellectual growth
>that discourse provides. Keep in mind that you always have the option to
>stop reading when the incomprehensibility of the posts gets to be too 
>much for you.		
>
>Elizabeth Lane
>University of Alabama
>
(and maybe just a little bit testy)

Alan LeGrand
From: dern@acs.bu.edu (Kevin Dern)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Hypnosis/Milton Erikson
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:40:33 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: dern@acs.bu.edu

On following the advice given to me by a fellow newsreader, I looked up
Milton Erikson and am reading though his collected papers with awe.

I have been studying hypnosis and experimenting with it for about 4 years
now, but what Erikson writes about is brand new to me...

I'd like to hear of anyone's experiences with hypnosis, any knowledge of
Milton Erikson or related topics. I'm not a psych. major, so I'd appreciate
the opportunity to discuss this in more depth with someone who understands
it better than I.

Also - I'm still looking for people in the Boston area that would like
to be hypnotized!


                                      Kevin
                                    
                                      dern@acs.bu.edu
.
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Non-Drug Induced States
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:39:11 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

Hello,
  I'm starting to work on my senior thesis for art.  I'm interested in 
"non-drug-induced tripping" or states of well-being.  I've been looking into
the use of such things by rotating mandlebrot/fractal color patterns (looks
like tie-dye patterns) and also by the effects of stereoscopic (3-d, crosseyed
view, etc) images.  There are other ways to go about this kind of stuff
(I think that Timothy Leary is getting involved with it)  Since I don't do
drugs, it's hard to know if I'm approaching the same results, although things
can still be "funky" to me.
An example of this effect of "pseudo-tripping":
  Once at the Limelight, in NYC I was sitting in a small side dance room.
There weren't too many people in there, this light was shining off a mirrored
disco ball and created hundreds of little lights on the floor moving around.
If I followed the lights around it was alright, but when I stared at one
spot on the floor, it felt like I was flying and spinning around.  If effects
like these are combined with stereo sound (oscillating between speakers..
to cause a rotating effect) total disorientation of the user/viewer will occur.
Do you know of any publications (books, magazine articles, etc) that deal
with this sort of thing?  Any information will be appreciated.
 - Thanks

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: g580785c@edinboro.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: another virtual God
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:52:11 GMT
Organization: Edinboro University of Pennsylvania

will somebody tell me what this virtual God is all about?
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: elane@ho07.eng.ua.edu (Elizabeth Lane)
Subject: Re: NLP and what the .... are we talking about???
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1992 21:38:13 GMT

In article <BvLLEo.IF8@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au> fernee@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Mark Fernee) writes:
>
>TRUTH is the one thing you will not find in physics. 

[ con mucho deleto ... ] 
>
>So yes, Cosmology is perhaps the only corner in the edifice of science, 
>where one may find *faith* lurking.
>
>A physcist has spoken......
>
>I hope this helps,

Indeed. Thanks for providing another view. 

I'm not sure why it is that the whole concept of NLP seems to make
people here so "testy." I have seen no NLP proponents claiming that the
ideas cannot or should not be tested; only that they were first drawn from
observation rather than theory. (*like* the ideas mentioned in Mark's 
message) I, for one, am all in favor of "scientific" exploration of the
concepts. What I take exception with is the idea that *until* such
exploration has been undertaken, and the results published, that the
techniques themselves are valueless.

As the appropriateness of the topic for a "science" newsgroup, I rather
doubt that any of us could come up with a definition of science that
would be universally acceptable. The battle began long before UUCP and
Usenet sprang into being, and is unlikely to be resolved here.

Elizabeth Lane
University of Alabama
From: Alan Pakaln <apakaln@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:11 PDT
Subject: Feeling Therapy Remembered
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1468800002:000:96
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!apakaln    Sep 27 15:11:00 1992


Has anyone here heard of The Center For Feeling Therapy?  It existed in
LA about ten years ago.
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Query: research on bullying in schools? (cited here last year)
Summary: I've lost the cite: research on detraining both bullies and wimps?
Keywords: bully school
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:44:47 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link


A year or more ago I followed a thread in sci.psychology about research being
done on gradeschoolers in a Scandinavian country (if my memory's serving me).
I've lost the cite; the little I recall is that the study was ongoing and
involved both giving the 'bully' attention and teaching the 'wimp' how not
to act in ways that triggered the bullying behavior.

I'd appreciate pointers to that or further research in the area.
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Phobia/Alcohol info needed!
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:23:57 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services


>> Help!
>> 
>> Third year law student in trial practice NEEDS info on the effects of alcohol
>> on claustrophbia and other anexiety disorders when the alcohol wears off
>> and the person finds themselves in a small space (holding cell).
>> 
>> Basically the fact patter is the police arrest a person who has fallen asleep
>> after a few (2-6) beers. They throw him into a cell WITHOUT any Miranda
>> warnings. he sobers up and the phobia sets in. He confesses. Tells everything
>> just to get out of the cell into a larger, brighter lit one.
>> 
>> This is a made up fact pattern, so don't worry about helping a murderer get
>> back out on the street.
>> 
>> Any help on learned treatesis I could dig into would be GREATLY appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Darrell
> 
> I'm responding to this original post, but I did see the subsequent
> flame thread.
> 
> You'd think that the obvious relationships would be documented
> somewhere.  It's been a clinical observation that phobic and
> anxiety patients often have a secondary substance abuse problem
> which exacerbates the original anxiety disorder.  I have made the
> clinical observation that my phobic patients are _more_phobic_
> during abstinence syndrome or withdrawal, but if no one has
> gathered systematic data I guess you have to appeal to common
> sense.

In a situation like this, professional opinion counts for as much as scientific
studies. When the courts are out of their area of expertiese (law), they turn
to the pros.

So, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Darrell


Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: K.M.Mill@psychiatry.utas.edu.au (Kathryn Mill)
Subject: turner's syndrome
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:35:15 GMT

I am currently undertaking a Ph.D on the psychological implications of Turner's syndrome, through
syndrome, through the University of Tasmania, Hobart, Australia.  I am wanting to hear 
to hear from anybody who also has this interest, and who I can share 
information and ideas with.  THANKS.
Newsgroups: sci.psychology