From: 15942@brahms.udel.edu (Stephen Barr)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Jesus and opinion polls
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:06:18 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


   If most Catholics disagree with a doctrine does
that mean that the Spirit is leading the Church to
abandon that doctrine? Let us look at a well-known
passage of Scripture, which has some interesting
subtleties. John 6:60-70.
     I quote the King James version which I have
handy.
    "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had
     heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can     
     hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his
     disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, 
     Doth this offend you?.... But there are some of
     you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the
     beginning who they were that believed not, and
     who should betray him. ..... From that time many
     of his disciples went back, and walked no more
     with him. Then Jesus said unto the twelve, Will ye
     also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord,
     to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of
     eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou
     art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 
     Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you twelve,
     and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas
     Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that
     should betray him, being one of the twelve."

Jesus had just taught them about the Eucharist, and 
about eating his body and drinking his blood. The
result was that "many" of his disciples said "who
can hear [that is, accept] it?" and "many" left
him and "walked no more with him." Perhaps not 98%,
but so many that Jesus asked the twelve whether they
too would go away. So it must have been a quite
substantial defection. Notice an interesting thing.
Suddenly, in a passage about the Eucharist, in an
early chapter of John's gospel (ch 6, out of 21)
the name of Judas crops up out of the blue! Note
the association of ideas: For Jesus knew... who
they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And then later, after challenging the disciples
whether they would accept his teaching, he mentions
the betrayal of Judas. What is being said here? 
Is it not that those who after having followed Christ
reject his teachings, even one of his "hard sayings",
are betraying him and putting themselves in the role
of Judas? He is not talking about the unbelievers
who do not listen, but about Christians who refuse
to accept his teachings. A very sobering passage, indeed.
Note also that Jesus "knew from the beginning who
they were that believed not". And yet he nevertheless
preached this difficult doctrine knowing full well
that a massive defection from him would be the result.
This answers the question of J.J. as to why the church
should not change its doctrine if it causing such
alienation. If the church is for saving people, and a
doctrine causes a loss of members so that fewer are
saved, shouldn't the church make the change? Here
Jesus reveals a very different attitude. KNOWING that
it would cause a defection, he uncompromisingly teaches
a very hard doctrine. Indeed he seems to go out of his
way to exclude soft interpretations of what he is saying:
"Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his
blood, ye will have no life in you." That is one of the
statements that caused the defection. If 98% rejected
the doctrine of the Trinity or the Resurrection, it
would simply mean that 98% "walked no more with him"
even if they continued to show up at Mass. By the
way the polls show an increasing lack of belief in
very basic teachings on everything from the Eucharist
to sexual morality. So more than one "spirit" is
operating here. While the modern world has moved
beyond certain negative views of women, it has also
on the other hand clearly gone backwards in other areas
pertaining to the way gender, sex, and related things
are viewed. In an age when even Christians claim 
men can marry men, that same sex couples should be 
allowed to adopt children, in an age of sexual licence
and high divorce rates, in a time when many regard
children as simply burden on the environment, can we be
sure that we have our act together when it comes to
understanding the Christian meaning of sexuality and
gender? The polls may reveal as much the absence of
the Spirit in people's lives as its presence. Steve Barr.A
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the name of Judas crops up out of the blue. 
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