HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@petros.b17a.ingr.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Santeria and animal-sacrifice
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:04:45 GMT
Reply-To: scott@petros.b17a.ingr.com


    Santeria's "right" to perform animal sacrifices 

Yesterday's news had an obscure article about the Supreme Court's 
hearing on Santeria's "right" to perform animal sacrifices during 
births, deaths, marriages, healing and initiation rites.

The case involves the city of Hialeah, FL ordinance that flatly bans 
animal killing - but only when it is done as sacrifice rituals.

Lyle Denniston of The Baltimore Sun, (as published in the Huntsville 
[AL] Times) in his "Court twits animal-sacrifice law" article; quotes 
the defense lawyer and some of the Justices.

The defense lawyer Douglas Laycock of the University of Texas, likened
  the ordinance to an overreaction that a city may have a problem  of 
  small animals being run over by cars; the city would have to "ban 
  cars".

Justice John Paul Stevens asked: "suppose one had a sick cat, and just
  wanted to put it out of its misery; is it unlawful in Hialeah (FL) to
  kill your cat?"

Justice Sandra Day O'Conner explored the legality of killing rats and 
  mice by setting traps for them. She then asked whether one could 
  legally "boil live lobsters?".

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Praise God for the stance by Hialeah, FL. How can a God fearing country
stand for such "twits" against God's mandates? As Christians, how can we
allow this type of judgement in our courts?

-- 

Regards,

D. Scott Stevens
Huntsville, AL

mail path: 
(UUCP)        ...!ingr!b17a!petros!scott
(Domain)      scott@petros.b17a.ingr.com 

[I'm going to comment on this posting assuming that it's serious,
though I have to say that it looks rather like satire to me.
At least I hope it is.

I think the implication of the "twits" is that a law banning the
killing of animals in general is not practical in current society.
The problem is that a law banning killing only in religious ceremonies
is almost certainly unconstitutional.  You can't outlaw religious
practices per se.  If they involving killing animals in a particularly
painful way or in a way that threatens health, you could come up with
a general law that would cover it.  But if your description of the law
is correct, it sounds like this law is not going to make it.

For better of worse, the U.S. has decided that all religions are
constitutionally protected.  Thus it is contrary to our constitution
to attempt to enforce God's mandates in religious matters.  Some
Christians think this is a bad idea.  However you might want to read
some history before suggesting a change.  The problem is that once you
allow the state to regulate religious practice, you had better be very
sure that the people doing the regulation are of right religion.  What
happens when Catholics, or liberals, or Moslems, take over the
Department of Religious Political Correctness?  Given the current
political situation, any relaxation of the constitutional protections
would be very likely to establish a sort liberal/new age religion.  Do
you really want to run that risk?

--clh]
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Door-to-Door evang..
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:58:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall) writes:

>In article <Nov.8.00.47.04.1992.8483@geneva.rutgers.edu>
>bm90ash@brunel.ac.uk (Adrian S Harvey) writes:
>>I was just wondering if there was anybody out there with door-to-door
>>experience that they would like to share.
>>

>First:
>  You've got to realize that door-to-door evangelism is _in_general_
>not very effective.  The number of people who will respond positively
>to the gospel from a complete stranger is small, and the number who will 
>follow that response with involvement with a church, Bible study or
>other discipling group is smaller still.  People respond more often to
>people they _know_ care about them, rather than those they think are
>just  "getting another notch in the ol' Bible".

Just to echo what Tim said, I would encourage you to devote your time,
energy, and money to building friendships with non-Christians.  Spend time
praying about your priorities, and see how you can clear your schedule of
various church activities.  Get to know your neighbours, classmates, and
workmates.  Hang around them.  Get to know their friends and introduce them
to yours.  *Earn* their trust by serving them and listening to them.
Demonstrate the love of God by going out of your way for them.
-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
From: finneyk@seanews.akita.com (Ken Finney)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Nudity - Why be ashamed?
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:03:29 GMT
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News + Mail

I remember reading a long time ago (maybe in "The Bible As History")
that nudity was quite common in Israel and Judah until the take over
by the Greeks.  The Greeks made fun of the circumcised Israelites
(expecially during public athletic contests, which the Greeks required
to be performed in the nude) to the point that some Israelites were
not having their children circumcised to spare them the ridicule.
To counter this, the Pharasees passed laws prohibiting public
nudity, so the Greeks couldn't make fun of the circumcised Israelites.
So the foundation of the laws against public nudity may have come
from a group of people feeling their honor was actually shameful.

--
[] SEANEWS [] Seattle Public Access Usenet News + Mail [] +1 206 747 NEWS []
finneyk@seanews.akita.com
From: g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: exorcism
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:17:48 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

Need info on exorcism - would appreciate anything. E-mail or posted here.
Thanks
Greg
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (11-10)
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:03:22 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Tuesday, November 10:

     Have regard for those who are working hard among you and
presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you; and . . . give
them more than extraordinary consideration in love because of their
work.  <1 Thessalonians 5: 12, 13>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM (Gary Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: funeral evangelism
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:55:49 GMT
Reply-To: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

I just came back from the funeral of a family friend.
The pastor gave a short and encouraging message about
the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our
sins.  He spoke to the people about God's love and
our assurance in Jesus.

I spoke to him later and found out that he was from
Crossroads Bible Church in San Jose.  He was a good example of
another method of evangelism.

|-------------------|
| Gary Chin         |
| Staff Engineer    |
| Sun Microsystems  |
| Mt. View, CA      |
| gchin@Eng.Sun.Com |
|-------------------|
From: anon1@evax12.eng.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: ????SupportGroup?????
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:23:07 GMT
Organization: Famu/Fsu College of Engineering

I there a support group for christians that have abuse in their past 

or present (over the network - or by E-Mail)?

How would I get a hold of this group?

Broken Ropes
------------------------------------------------------
ANON1 - Broken Ropes
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: British Israelites & Herbert Armstrong
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:00:44 GMT
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey

People who are participating in this discussion may be interested in an
article on page 57 of the 9 November 1992 issue of Christianity Today.

Apparently, the Worldwide Church of God is apparently moving slowly toward
orthodoxy.  The group has modified some of their restrictions on medical care,
holiday observance, and dress codes.  Also, where they used to describe the
Trinity as a doctrine from Satan, they now view it as "a genuine attempt to
reach a deeper understanding of God's nature".

Relevant to this thread, one doctrine being rethought is British Israelism
(the CT article does not go into much detail about this one).

Some members are not at all happy with this shift, and are leaving the church
over the changes.  Many rank-and-file members have viewed Mr Armstrong's
teachings as infallible, and when his book _Mystery of the Ages_ (considered
Mr Armstrong's crowning achievement) was pulled from distribution, they became
disillusioned.


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
"The belief that you are infallible can be burdensome." -- Nancy L Tinkham
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Support mail
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:18:04 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

I would like to start a support group via E-mail.
I will E-mail a list of respondents to everyone who joins
the list. In other words everyone who wants a copy gets added to
the list. This should keep it down to serious inquiries only.

Anyone who needs immediate attention I would direct to their local
church.

The support group is primarily for victims of some form of abuse.
If you would like to be referred to only people with your types
of abuse please state so and I will do my  best to accomidate you.    
Please include your E-mail adress,real name and type of abuse.
If you prefer your abuse not be revealed I will list you under Misc.
Please wait two to three weeks as I have to sort the names first.
Thankyou.

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
From: ggrieve@cbnewsi.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: British Israelites
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:27:30 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <Nov.8.01.06.05.1992.8592@geneva.rutgers.edu>, ba2cs252@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Leonidas Hepis) writes:
> 
> was Armstrong implying that there had been no humans in Europe before 700 BC?
> If I recall well from the time I read some PT issues, he was suggesting
> that all nations in the world came from the Middle East.  Although researchers
> believe all modern humans evolved from ancestors in Africa, the genetic 
> differences of the different human races imply a much greater time span 
> than the one which Armstrong suggested.
> 


The Ambassador College of the Worldwide Church of God does believe in the
creation, I think. I am not too familiar with their teaching but I seem to
recall reading in one of their publications that humans will colonise other
planets, taking the gospel with them.

The BI beliefs are scriptural and offer a rational explanation for the covenant
made with the patriarchs, together with many of the more obscure passages in
old and new testaments. 

My email in response to the original posting (which was sent in confidence, by
the way - I was somewhat surprised to see it posted to the net) was intended
to establish just how impo(r)tant the covenant is - is it to be taken literally,
or is it a metaphor for something?

If the "Israel scattered abroad" is a metaphor then the original "impotant"
may indeed be the more appropriate spelling!
From: martin@scs.carleton.ca (martin chidyausiku)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: ECSTACY
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:46:58 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

Sir,

If you judge things only on how good they make you feel then you
might have to try cocain, it will take you to greater depths, that
much closer to hell. Having sex with someone who is not your wife
can be quite enjoyable, otherwise the prostitution trade would not
prosper. Now does that make adultery or fornication good ? I am
sure you know whats right and whats wrong. These don't mix. God
wants us to get high, yes but not on some substance but on His
Spirit alone. Now you are trying to satisfy that God-given hunger
for something better with drugs, it will never work. Now mark my
words, next time you will go to the same club again and hunt for
the same feeling like you had. You will need a larger amount of the
same drug to reach a similar high. You will continue to search for
the same feeling and maybe even get other types of "good" feelings
as well. One day ECSTASY wont suffice anymore and then: Enter
cocaine which is already waiting in the wings. My advice is, don't
go down that road ! You might never return. Satan is the one that
is trying to prove to you that you can love your neighbor without
the Holy Ghost but its a peverted love. The feelings that you got
from ECSTACY went with the drug and were not permanent but what you
get from God remains. The choice is yours. Did you ever pray about
it ??


Bye.
Martin.
From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Calvin's eucharistic theology
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:01:06 GMT
Organization: none

In article <Nov.6.01.29.51.1992.5246@geneva.rutgers.edu> wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes:

   It was interesting to read of Calvin's belief in the real presence
   of Christ in the Lord's supper.  Does this mean the real presence
   of Christ's body and blood, or something else?

   Didn't Calvin adhere to the idea that Christ's body could not be
   present in the bread of the Lord's Supper since Christ's body
   was seated "at the right hand of God?"  Or is this pure 
   Zwingli?

   What did Calvin mean by "real presence?"  It's hard to believe
   that he took a fundamentally Lutheran viewpoint on the Sacrament.

If you are interested in this sort of thing, you might find Fr.
Francis Clark's work "Eucharistic Sacrifice and the Reformation" (ISBN
0851727247) interesting.  Fr. Clark was a theology professor at one of
the premier Catholic theology institutes, the Pontifical Gregorian
University in Rome.

The book deals mainly with the Reformation in England; it was written
for ecumenical reasons with the Anglicans in mind.  The English
Reformers (I have in mind Cranmer) owed much to Calvin in their
Eucharistic theology, as it turns out.

Fr. Clark's purpose seemed to me to be mainly to illuminate the
Reformation era, as far as Eucharistic theology goes.  As he shows in
his work, it is a bit simplistic to think that the Reformers were
merely reacting against popular abuses.

I found the book very enlightening, and would probably rate it in the
top ten Catholic theology books I have read.
From: uyeno@subsys.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Is Your Life Making A Difference?!
Date: 13 Nov 92 06:51:22 GMT
Reply-To: uyeno@subsys.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

For those in the Worcester County area of Massachusetts, this may interest
you....

                  ARE YOU MAKING A LIVING OR MAKING A LIFE?


                          Friday, November 20, 1992
                                    7:30pm

            Walter J. Paton School in Shrewsbury on Grafton Street
                              Childcare provided

FEATURING:

John Williams - former professional football player for the New England
Patriots during their Super Bowl season whose life has been dramatically
changed.

Jimmy Rogers - former missionary to Kingston, Jamaica, and present minister in
Westwood, MA, who has helped many gain convictions for making their lives
count.

For more info, please contact Tony Balsamo 
                      (BALSAMO_A@WMOIS.ENET.DEC.COM)
                                  or
                              Alice Uyeno  
                       (UYENO@SUBSYS.ENET.DEC.COM)

             (Sponsored by Church of Christ in Worcester County)
From: tartaris@hsi.com (Bob Tartaris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The first sin?
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:44:23 GMT
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT

In article <Nov.4.00.29.54.1992.954@geneva.rutgers.edu> jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes:
>In article <Nov.1.00.32.20.1992.22626@geneva.rutgers.edu> debre@cs.sun.ac.za (Etienne de Bruin) writes:
>
>   What would you say was the first sin ever done by a human.
>   I am referring to the sin Adam and Eve committed in Eden.
>
>It was disobedience.  Sexual sin was not possible to Adam; there was

I think it actually went beyond disobedience.  Through their disobedience
they were trying to be like God maybe even to be a god.  They had been 
convinced by Satan that they too could be omniscient, omnipotent, etc.

And don't we still sometimes do that today?  Aren't we trying to be like God, 
in fact to play God, when we get upset when God doesn't answer our prayers 
exactly as *we* want Him too?  Aren't we trying to play God when our prayers 
aren't answered on *our* time schedule? 

Thanks,
Bob
-- 
Robert P. Tartaris                                 tartaris@hsi.com       
3M Health Information Systems                      ...!uunet!hsi!tartaris  
100 Barnes Road			                   (203) 949-6411          
Wallingford, CT 06492
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: NIV or NASB in soft copy?
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:55:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

A friend is working on a data compression program. Using
this, he's managed to get the King James bible onto 1
1.44M floppy. He'd like to do the same with NIV or NASB.

Anyone know where one could find NIV or NASB in ascii text?

thanks,

-jen
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mature Christian Characteristics???
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:31:31 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

I dont have my Bible with me in the computer lab but....
I believe a mature christian should have:
1...Respect for Her/Himself and others.
2...Love for God and his word
3...Generous(not gullible) spirit
4...Ability to be open but not intrusive
5...Ability to listen and really care(the latter is the hardest)
6...Hunger for righteousness(truth,justice and the Godly way)
7...Repentent heart(ability to recognize sin for what it is and be
genuinely sorry)
8...ACCEPTING ATTITUDE...If a christian doesnt either pray keep your
mouth shut!! A unaccepting christian does more harm than good.
9...Tact( the above may not be an example) when approaching non believers
10..God
Just some ideas.Paul really outlines this stuff in romans etc.
Mr Shannon Saltzman

-- 
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
={}={}={}={}={}={}={}={}={}={}={}
From: bjr@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Brett Riester)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: A Call to Peace
Date: 9 Nov 92 06:05:26 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

I've received several emails about the address for the national
Marian newsletter that I mentioned in my previous post about the
2nd Coming of Christ (see 'A Messiah Soon?' article).

The name of the newsletter is "A Call to Peace"; it's primarily
about messages that a U.S. visionary named Cyndi Cain has been
recieving from Mary about the "End Times"...  The address of the
publisher is:

	MIR-A-CALL Center
	Six Bentley Lane
	Bella Vista, Arkansas 72714 - 5605

They can also be reached by phone, toll-free, 24-hours a day at:

	(800) 235 - MARY

However, I have the text of the messages given in Aug., Sept., and
Oct. and, if there is enough interest, would be willing to post
them to this newsgroup.

If you're interested, just post a short note to s.r.c saying that
you would like me to post the messages that I have.

Brett
-- 
Riester
	riesterb@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
	bjr@expert.cc.purdue.edu
From: tony@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Anthony R. Benitez)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Lost Salvation
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:56:48 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

In article <Nov.10.02.27.50.1992.12658@geneva.rutgers.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>What would happen if someone believed and then began to villify and
>curse the Holy Spirit, a sin for which there is no forgiveness?

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is impossible for an Elect
Child of God.  Don't worry.  The miracle is you believe!
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Liberal/New Age Religion (Was: Santeria and animal-sacrifice)
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:55:20 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>Most fundamentalists would be quite happy with a return to the morals this
>nation has had for the first 180 years of its existence.

Well, were the morals better, or just different?  Nostalgia tends to
be blind in many ways.  Do you want to go back to communist witch hunts,
Indian scalp bounties, Jim Crow laws?  Probably not.  But these things
scare many people when they hear statements about returning to the
good-ol days.  Despite the popular dogma, I don't think the U.S.
was ever long on God's most-favored-nation list.

Sure, I agree fully that Christianity is often denied equal standing
with other beliefs in society.  But this situation is not helped when
loud vitriolic "Christians" spread what is viewed as a doctrine of
hate.  In trying to achieve their goals, many modern fundamentalists
ignore that they are trampling upon the beliefs and rights of
non-Christians.  If they feel it is just to legislate their beliefs,
would they feel likewise if Muslim beliefs were legislated?
(personally, sometimes I think that often people will try to
deny their "small" sins by attacking what they see as "great" sins)

As Christion appear to become more bland and hypocritical, it should
not be surprising that new-age and pagan religions gain in popularity.
Why then would someone try to remedy this by deepening the chasm
that is driving people away?
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - Luxury!  In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...
From: Steve.Gross@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Steve Gross)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Hello Again!!
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:22:04 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

Hi Ya'll:

It has been quite some time since I last posted to this group.  My job at
Data General was cut in October and I was unable to post notes to anyone
about my job loss.  Praise God for telephones and faithful prayer partners!!

I am using my son's account to post this note.  I will have my own account
soon and should be able to keep up on things.  I have a contract that
takes me through until January.  There is a very good chance that my
contract will be extended come January.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.

En Agape tou Iesous,

Gene Gross