HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seg@cbncp7.ATT.COM (Scott Gordon)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Invisible Fencing
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:29:13 GMT
	<1992Sep1.173720.7671@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
	<1992Sep1.182613.19823@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>
	<1992Sep6.175841.18084@kodak.kodak.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

>> In article <1992Sep6.175841.18084@kodak.kodak.com> dennett@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett) writes:
>> 
>>    Path: cbnews!att!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!kodak!sunshine!dennett
>>    From: dennett@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett)
>>    Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
>>    Date: 6 Sep 92 17:58:41 GMT
>>    Article-I.D.: kodak.1992Sep6.175841.18084
>>    References: <1992Aug30.023716.15210@bmers145.bnr.ca> <3765@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> <1992Sep1.173720.7671@terminator.cc.umich.edu> <1992Sep1.182613.19823@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>
>>    Sender: news@kodak.kodak.com
>>    Distribution: na
>>    Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
>>    Lines: 22
>> 
>>    In article <1992Sep1.182613.19823@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>, mcreynol@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Alan McReynolds) writes:
>>    >Some time ago I recall seeing advertising for "Invisible Fencing".  
>>    >This product was intended to keep your dog from wandering off of 
>>    >your property, without actually having to fence in the lot.  My 
>>    >hazy recollection of the product was that some sort of wire was 
>>    >buried at the perimeter of the lot and that it transmitted some 
>>    >sort of signal to a "smart" collar on the dog.  The collar, when 
>>    >brought too close to the buried wire, would irritate the dog 
>>    >enough to eventually train it to say at home.
>> 
>>    Well, a friend of mine had it installed at his house.  He tells
>>    a couple of rather humerous tales.  In the first one his dog
>>    got excited and ran over the buried wire and got zapped.
>>    The dog absolutely refused to cross the wire and come
>>    back into the yard.  The fellow had to carry the dog back into
>>    the yard.  The dog is a Labrador Retriever, not a small dog.
>> 
>>    The other story is about the time he was holding the collar in his
>>    hand when he got too close to the wire.  Now he knows why
>>    his dog refused to cross the wire in the first story!
>> 
>>    Charlie Dennett -- dennett@kodak.com


Be kind to your dog.  Would you want to be shocked like the person holding
the collar in his hand?

Remember also that it is only your dog that is wearing the collar.  It is
not the neighborhood children or other dogs.  I wouldn't want to put my
dog in that sort of jeopardy.

Scott Gordon -- seg@cblpn.cb.att.com

-------

This is only my opinion.  I didn't ask my management for their approval.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: suggested weapons (was: Killing burglars.)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:41:43 GMT

In article <charlesv.716484129@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren) writes:

>So please move the discussion to where it belongs, to rec.guns, or
>misc.paranoids.

You post it here, we'll damn well discuss it here. You don't post it here, it
won't get discussed here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | There are very few personal problems which
George Patterson -  | cannot be solved by a suitable application
                    | of high explosive.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: FHA loans
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:46:03 GMT
Reply-To: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In misc.consumers.house, daniels_d@apollo.HP.COM (Dave Daniels) writes:
> Has anyone here, heard of a new policy when financing
>via FHA. They now reguire that you pay $600 to get the
>property you want to purchase, treated for termites. I
>have no problem with that, except for we are having a house
>built, what good would that do.  My question is when you
>have you house treated how long does it last ?
(etc)

We bought our house new in 1965.  It was common (mandatory?) that the
builder have the soil around the footings treated to prevent termite
infestation;  the presumption was that termites *are* in the soil as
a part of the natural ecology and they would quickly find your house
if given the chance.  That treatment lasted until 1990, when I found
the critters lunching on my rec room.  Some neighbors had trouble earlier,
perhaps 1985.

The house was built to FHA specs, although we went conventional.  This
is in Northern Virginia, a bit south and warmer than you, so I expect
your termites may be less aggressive.

		 DaveP
From: ems@Apple.COM (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: More comments Re: Odd home defense shotguns (was Re: suggested weapons
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:24:38 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Sep6.183959.20103@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.051950.22343@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>
><everything deleted>
>
>In consideration for the many people who have objected to this discussion,
>can we please at least leave the subject line the same? That way nobody
>has to alter their kill files.

Well, you see, there are these folks who keep posting a bunch of
flamage in response to a simple informative posting, thus changing
the character of the thread.  Since the last dozen postings on the
prior subject line were flamage, if one wishes to post valid info
that is germain to the subject, it only makes sense to put a new
subject line in place so folks can tell the good stuff from the
mutated flamage postings.

Now, if you had conducted this exchange via EMAIL rather than posting,
there would have been no need to change the subject line.

But as long as you persist in posting flamage in response to informational
postings (specifically directed at answering a request for info that
was prior published in the group, I might add), I'll continue to mutate
the subject line to correctly reflect the new content/thread.

i.e. if you don't like subject lines mutating, don't post stupid 
flamage asking people to only talk about what you think is PC.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    | I had been told that the best defense is a good
>George Patterson -  | offense, so I made up my mind early in life to
>                    | become as offensive as possible.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You've succeeded in achieving the goal stated in your .sig so you can
retire now ...

-- 
E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

"Nothing can keep an argument going like two persons who aren't
sure what they're arguing about."   O.A.Battista
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Home invaders
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 03:12:05 EDT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:

> Does anyone have figures, though, on how likely it is that my family
> will be attacked in the house at night?  (As opposed to the likelihood
> that my house will be burglarized.)

Well as I recall in the U.S. only one burglary in 10 occurs in occupied
homes. The U.S. had about 3,000,000 burglaries, which would imply that
about 300,000 burglaries of occupied dwellings. There are about
91,000,000 households in the U.S., so that would make it about 1 chance
in 300. Add in other crimes such as rape, assault and murder and you
would probably get somewhere around 1 chance in 250 in any given year.
It might be as low as 1 in 200, but I doubt it. The local variations
would be a lot more important. It could easily be over one chance in a
couple thousand in some rural areas, while it might be more like one
in 20 in some bad parts, say of Washington D.C. or Atlanta.

I remember Massad Ayoob commenting in his book 'The Truth About Self
Protection' that you are a lot more likely to be killed by a fire in
your home, than by someone breaking in. He mentioned this in the context
of discussing using window bars on ones home.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: gt@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (George Tatge)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:13:20 GMT
Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

In misc.consumers.house, chrisb@cs.cornell.edu (Chris Buckley) writes:

>circuits twice, once with 14 ga and once with 12 ga.  I still haven't
>verified this since I'm not allowed to talk to the contractor(!) (much
>less the electrical subcontractor), but from quotes on other things it
>seems to be the case.  Thus it's considerably cheaper for me to have
>them run several separate additional 20 amp circuits to 4 or 5 rooms
>than to upgrade all the wiring.  Silly.

I know you folks do things differently out east but please, you are
buying a house and you are not *allowed* to talk to the contractor!?!
Who is prohibiting you?  What possible legal basis could they have
for trying to prevent you?

>We all agree that 12 ga is to be preferred.  Are there people out
>there who think it's worthwhile enough to pay $1200 for it (the
>difference between the $2100 quote and the estimated $900 for the
>additional circuits I'm planning on getting instead)?

Not a chance!  

g (here out west, we'd shoot any SOB who tried something like that) t
From: vallath@vishnu.foo.tek.com (Vallath Nandakumar )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Gas dryer or electric clothes dryer?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:01:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


I live in the Portland OR, area, and I have an electric
clothes dryer which I want to replace.  I was wondering about
getting a gas one. 

Gas is substantially cheaper here, and electricity may
increase in price even more in the future in this area. We
use our dryer quite a bit right now.  The disadvantage of gas
is the cost of the new branch line inside the house, and the
fact that most houses are not set up for gas dryers - so
if we move, we may have to spend more money on installation of
gas lines.  

Any of you have any comments on gas dryers?

Vallath Nandakumar
From: bdm@druwa.ATT.COM (Brian Millham)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Security Alarms
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:07:33 GMT

in article <1992Sep4.190522.22493@access.digex.com>, sparkle@access.digex.com (Pat) says:

> I was told by the Rollins people that, if my telephone line were cut,
> the central office in Atlanta would take immediate steps to notify
> the local police.

> Was I misinformed, or is my system one step ahead of the competition?

I think that you were misinformed, since the CO can't tell the difference
between a cut phone line, and a phone that is just unplugged from the
wall jack.  Imagine, if you unplug your phone because you don't want it
to ring, the cops show up on your door step.

The above is true for standard residential lines.
--
Brian Millham     |Kitty      |Fletch |Dragon's Lair |Kick Man |New World
AT&T Bell Labs    |Ferrah     |Buddy  |Space Ace     |Sinistar |High Speed
Denver, Co.       |Dr. Pepper |       |              |         |
bdm@druwa.att.com |(ferrets)  |(cats) |(laser disc)  |(video)  |(pinball)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Beware when prewiring for telephone
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 21:34:57 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:

  [ about network wiring in the home ]

> If your house is 10' away from the neighbors 60s TV set there might be
> a problem.  I suspect that in most installations and cases there won't 
> be one, but I'm not at all sure who has the problem if there is.  If you 
> meet FCC specs is it then your issue to resolve, or the neighbors?  How 
> can the 10BaseT people sell equipment that doesn't meet FCC emissions specs?

In most cases, there won't be a problem. However, it depends upon 
*which* FCC spec you're discussing--Class A or Class B. Class A
equipment (which most network hardware is designed to) has much
looser requirements regarding emissions and interference, and is
certified for "business office use", which basically means an
office building not in a residential area.

Class B is the requirement that anything targeted for a home use
(everything from home computers to Nintendos) is required to meet,
and most manufacturers of clones and peripherals design to pass
it to avoid hassle. If you operate Class A equipment in a residential
area, you are *obligated* to stop any interference problems that
arise. If you have Class B stuff, it depends on who was there first,
with the average couch potatos' TV getting a slight edge, I think.

Use good cable; if interference might be a problem, use shielded
twisted-pair. In reality, unless you're in a condo/townhouse/
apartment, you shouldn't emit noticable RFI.

Gary Heston, at home....        ....I play a net admin at work....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: johnst@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (John F Stoops)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: removing magic marker from brick
Keywords: indelible ink
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:52:28 GMT
Distribution: usa

My children's school was recently vandalized - someone wrote on the brick walls
with one of those felt tip pins with black indelible ink.  This is the same type
of marker we use to mark our kids clothes when we send them off to camp; the 
kind that doesn't wash out.  Does anybody know of any solvent that will get this
out?  I would prefer not to sand down the brick because I believe the outside of
the brick is harder than the inside and I don't want to remove the glazed 
surface(is this true or am I out to lunch?).  Any help in how to clean off the 
ink would be greatly appreciated.

					Thanks,

					 John
From: rte@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ralph.t.edwards)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Built in bookcase kits?
Keywords: Where can I find some?
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:26:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

I would like to build a bookcase into a whole wall of one room using
oak and oak veneer stock.  I plan to use 3/4 inch plywood for the vertical
members, which i plan to drill holes in for placement of adjustable
shelves using pegs.  Does anyone know of a source of prefinished, predrilled
stock for such purpose?  What about mail order sources of the pegs (I can
get them in small numbers from Rickel's, but like all packaged hardware
these days they are ludicrously overpriced.  Please send email.
The height of the bookcase will be 7 feet.
From: leavitt@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jay Leavitt)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: custom vanity
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:22:39 GMT
Reply-To: leavitt@ubvms.bitnet
Organization: University at Buffalo
Originator: leavitt@val-dor.cc.buffalo.edu


to say it won't fit between the 2 walls which were just built (60 1/16" true &
square). 

Bertch says their cabinets are within industry specs. Depending on who I talk to,
 some say its BS, others (company people) say that's their experience.



					Jay
From: browner@rm1.interlan.com (Michael Browner)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Builder's Square ?
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:01:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Racal-Milgo, Sunrise, Florida

In article <1992Sep8.175452.16891@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, rbaist@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (robert.t.baist) writes:
|> There's a builder's Square upening up near me (Freehold, N.J.). I've never 
|> heard of them before. What r they?    like Rickel's?   Like Home Depot?
|> 


They are like Home Depot.  Carry mostly the same products, but have a few
things the Depot doesn't.  There prices on many items are higher.  But the
upside is that they will meet or beat a competitors price by 10percent.

I bought 10 plants that regularly cost $7.97 from them for $4.50 because
a local nursery had them for $4.95.  The next thing is to get a cordless
drill for a good price.

Michael B.

-- 
Michael Browner     		browner@sun1.interlan.com or
(305) 846-6848                  browner@rd1.interlan.com
Racal-Milgo, MS E-112, 
P.O.Box 407044, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33340  
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (22475-adams)
Subject: Re: Home security tips from a burglar
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:55:41 GMT
Summary: I've done this myself

In article <1992Sep10.160231.3536@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
> Question for you electrical wiring gurus. I'd like to wire up a pair of
> floodlights to a three-way switch in such a manner that in one position
> the lights are driven by a motion detector and in the other position
> they are on. I would also put a single pole switch upstream to let me cut
> the thing off by cutting the power to the 3-way.

Pardon the feeble attempt at ASCII art:

						_________
	_________________		________|	|_______
	^		|		|	|Motion	|	|
	|		|		|	|Detect.|	|
      120 VAC		O		O	|_______|	|
	|		 /		/	    |		|---> Hot side
      __|__		O_____________O/	  __|__		|	of
      /////	   SPST				  /////		|	lights
				   DPST	O			|      
					|			|
					|_______________________|

Note that you will have to run three wire (red, black, and white) from your DPST
to the box containing your floodlights and motion detector. Make sure you are
using a deep enough box to accomodate the extra wire.

Jack (John) Adams		| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}		| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         -- If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it.  It's much easier to 
	 apologize than it is to get permission. -- Grace Murray Hopper (1906-1992).
From: ac@vlsi.ll.mit.edu (Andrew V. Curtis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: GFI Outlets: what characteristics do the price range account for?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:57:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington MA


 	Could anyone please tell me the difference between a seven dollar
GFI outlet and a 22 dollar GFI outlet (Home Depot prices).  My purpose
for the outlets is multi:  I will need a few for replacing two-prong outlets
in my 45 year old house, I will need a few for kitchen and bathroom outlets,
and I will need a few for exterior and garage outlets.  Thanks in advance
for any replies.


Andy Curtis



P.S.  I HATE painting (interior) ...... is there anyone that enjoys it ?????
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tln@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (teresa.l.green)
Subject: Tyvek under Celotex Insulation. O.K.?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:01:13 GMT

Hello -
	Can I put an air barrier(Tyvek, Typar) under rigid 
insulation(Celotex) on the exterior of my house.  I think this
should be alright since Tyvek is only an air barrier not a 
moisture barrier.  I assume builders always put Tyvek over the
insulation because this gives them a solid surface to roll the
Tyvek against.  In my case, the entire house has wood sheathing,
so I already have a solid surface before the rigid insulation
goes on.  Any comments would be appreciated. 
				Thanks,
					Teresa
					teresa@ihlpm.ATT.COM
From: cnmne@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Chris Ellinger)
Subject: new noise control material
Organization: Plex-1, Michigan's Public Access Usenet Gateway  (Ann Arbor).
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:59:08 GMT



There seems to be regular interest in residential sound insulation and 
noise control.  In the July 1992 issue of "Sound and Vibration", there is a 
test of of a new flooring material called "damped plywood" that is 
effective in reducing both footfall and airborne noise.  The material is a 
sandwich of two layers of regular plywood with a viscoelastic core.  It is 
produced in standard sized sheets and installs the same as regular plywood.  
It is manufactured by Greenwood Forest Products, Inc., Lake Oswego, OR.
 
Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
From: simnet@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Mark R Poulson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: What should I know about plywood siding?
Summary: T 1-11
Keywords: plywood siding, Texture 1 11.
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:32:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

In article <1992Sep4.141629.28496@crd.ge.com>, lorraine@caliban.crd.ge.com (Peter Lorraine) writes:
> I found in one of those Bob Villa type guide to building materials books a
> reference to a plywood siding called Texture 1 11 (1-11?).  The illustration
> certainly resembles the siding on the house.
> 
> Could someone clue me in on the advantages and disadvantages of plywood
> siding?  I have asked a local builder to examine the siding and roof before
> we bid and plan to pick his brain.  Needless to say, this is not a
> replacement for a full inspection which we will require if our bid is
> accepted.  Any information/experiences/things to watch out for would be
> greatly appreciated!

T 1-11 was a popular siding material in this area (Seattle) in the late 70's.
Its relatively inexpensive and how it looks is an individual preference. My
outdoor shop has T 1-11 siding, but the house has individual siding pieces.

First, I think plywood is an excellent sheathing material when compared to
chipboard or soft black sheathing materials. This is very important if you
live in an area that gets high winds. T 1-11 is 5/8 inch thick and made with
all waterproof glue and is meant to be in wet areas. When individual siding
is used, a good house will have 3/8 or 1/2 in plywood (normal ACX or CDX)
sheathing with 3/8 to 1/2 inch siding placed over it. This is stronger than
a single layer of 5/8 plywood (T 1-11 or plain), but whether you need this
strength depends on your house and its location.

If there are no structural reasons to skip on the T 1-11 house, then asthetics
would be the only reason to avoid it since its different than siding. In
the neighborhoods around here, the T 1-11 houses were pretty inexpensive so
all the materials were some of the cheapest available (light fixtures, trim
and moldings, carpet, etc). If the house is used and the owners upgraded a
lot of this stuff, then all the better.

		Mark
From: ef7@prism.gatech.edu (Ed Fair)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Your expertise required ...
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:56:14 GMT
Organization: Information Technology

> 	I have seen couple of good houses which I like, is there 
> a way to find out details about any recent sales in the neighbor
> -hood. What price were they sold for ? How much was the apprecia

our agent showed us a list of houses sold and/or listed in our neighborhood.
i think it went back about a year.

ed