From: saavik@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Marla Belzowski (K-9's))
Subject: Re: Welcome, Bianca
Keywords: adult poodle, helpful hints wanted
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:14:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.233015.8092@u.washington.edu> diannes@milton.u.washington.edu (Dianne Schoenberg) writes:
>Hey! Does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
>> According to her breeder, even though Bianca is
>> show quality, at 10.5 inches she's too big to show, so the breeder had
>> been breeding her.  
>
>From what I understand, there are basically two definitions of "show quality":
>   1) If a good-faith effort is made to show the dog, the dog is 
>      capable of earning a championship.  (Many breeders will offer
>      a written contract guaranteeing money back or a replacement
>      puppy if the dog is incapable of earning a championship)
>   2) (the looser and far less preferable definition) The dog has no
>      disqualifying faults.
>
>I *can't* think of any possible definition under which a dog with a
>disqualifying fault (as size definitely *is* for a toy poodle--maximum
>allowable is 10") could be considered show quality.
>

No disqualifying faults is a showable dog, but not necessarily a finishable
dog.  Most *smart* breeders realize that selling a puppy under a       
guarantee to finish is just plain crazy.  No one can definiately say
that a puppy is going to finish when it is 8 - 12 weeks old.  Yes,
some are more probable than others to finish but there is NO 
guarantee.  Some dogs I think should have finished long ago, don't.
Mostly because they were shown under the wrong judge, in poor health,
or lacking the experienced handler.  That doesn't mean they are not
show quality, it means they were not shown properly.  

Many breeders of smaller, or toy dogs keep, and breed over sized females.
It is easier to whelp pups and usually they have more.  They are
just carefully bred to small males.  Usually the males of toy breeds are
smallest, because they do not have to carry the puppies.  
If the only thing this dog is faulted for is size, that's not 
that much of a problem.  


>> Her third litter was weaned a month ago.  As her third
>> litter consisted of one puppy, delivered by ceasarean, her breeder
>> decided to find her a good home as a pet.
>
>Certainly I can consider many circumstances under which it might be
>desireable to breed a dog with a disqualifying fault--but I would
>hope that a reputable breeder (which I *hope* this one is) would be more
>concerned with the quality of her get than the quantity.  Have any of
>the puppies from her earlier litters finished their championships?
>
>Any comments from netland?
>
>Dianne (who is showing her first dog, is looking forward to getting a better
>        one & hopefully breeding someday, & is honestly curious)
>
>(P.S.: Debbie--I certainly hope you don't take this as a flame of you,
>your mother, or Bianca.  I'm just concerned because I've heard breeders
>say some really gawdawful stupid things in the past just in order to sell 
>a dog--there really aren't any controls on such things.)
>
>

It's fine to breed an oversize dog, if you KNOW what you are doing.
Yes, some pups in the litter may be a oversized, but several will be
just perfect.  With everything else going for them -- mother has no
other genetic problems, wonderfull temperament, great coat -- you'd
be crazy not to breed her to the smallest male you can find.
I`d be interested in knowing if any pups finished.  This could be
why she is finding her a pet home. 

Just my $.02 worth.

------------
Marla Belzowski   saavik@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Mauii Nikki Belzowski CD CGC TDI CERF
Brittish Legend of Beowulf CD CGC TDI CERF  tri-color collies
Legend's Year of Jubilee   S&W collie

>
>


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