From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:41:19 GMT


	By the way, Mr. Coward, what is your name?

In article <1ibkn3INNrqi@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:

# In article <1993Jan4.001853.5603@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# $In article <1i7mjqINN3i8@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:

# $# In article <1993Jan3.165550.14881@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# $# }In article <1i6gdjINNmd4@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:

# $# }# In article <1992Dec24.183747.25193@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp
# $# }# (Adam Shostack) writes:

# $# }# ->In article <1992Dec22.091054.24186@Princeton.EDU>
# $# }# niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

# $# }# ->Quoting somewhat out of context here:

# $# }# ->>(Basically, I view this as pretty analagous to the US interment of
# $# }# ->>Japanese-Americans during WW2, actually.  The government there, too,
# $# }# ->>said there was an imminent security threat because a war was going on.
# $# }# ->>Many of the people arguing this may even have believed it sincerely.  It
# $# }# ->>didn't make the actions right, however.)

# $# }# ->This analogy, is like comparing apples and oranges.  The basic
# $# }# ->difference between the actions of the US government and the Israeli
# $# }# ->government is that the Arabs living in Gaza pose a demonstratable and
# $# }# ->definite threat to the Israeli population.

# $# }# ->The Americans of Japanese ancestry who were thrown into camps had
# $# }# ->shown no propensity to oppose the American war effort.  Many of them
# $# }# ->were second and third generation American citizens.  There were no
# $# }# ->instances that I know of of Japanese-Americans spying for the Imperial
# $# }# ->Government.  This is in stark contrast to the fact that there were
# $# }# ->Germans who spied for the Reich, although German-Americans were never
# $# }# ->jailed en masse.

# $# }# ->Please note that I am not defending the deportations.  I am merely
# $# }# ->trying to point out that David's analogy is fundamentally inaccurate. 
 
# $# }# In both cases the internees and deportees were denied due process in time of
# $# }# war and instead summarily interned or deported following neither trial nor
# $# }# conviction.  The degree to which each group was/is held in suspect is
# $# }# immaterial.

# $# }	This is plain and simply misleading.  What was being debated was
# $# }not the degree to which each group was/is held in suspect as you
# $# }claim, but the degree to which they were/are a threat.  You are
# $# }discussing apples and oranges.
 
# $# How do you measure and establish the existance and extent of the threat
# $# someone poses?

# $	Well, here is just one simple measure.  Nissim Toledano.  There
# $are of course more.
 
# How does the commission of a crime make someone a threat if he has not
# been duely found guilty of committing it?

	That is one of the ost ridiculous statements I have come accross
in a long time.  Are you going to tell us that Jeffry Dahmer was not a
threat until he was convicted?  Maybe those Milwaukee cops who were
fired should be given their jobs back.

# If he is not allowed to see
# and confront the evidence that supposedly associates him with the crime
# and instead just has sentence carried out on him,

	They do not need to confront the evidence.  They created it by
joining Hamas.

# then he is denied
# due process just as the interned Japanese Americans were during
# World War II.

	There is a war going on.  If you expect things to operate as
normal you are an idiot (or a bigot, or both).  During World War II
there was also a war, but I explained in a previous article why it is
not the same thing.

# $	One thing has just occured to me.  Why am I even bothering to
# $answer you?  There is a war going on.  If you expect things to operate
# $normally you are pathetic.

# I'm just making the correct analogy between the deportees' denial of due
# process with that of the wartime internment of Japanese Americans.

	Well, if you are making the correct analogy then I must have
missed it.  It certainly was not in any of the articles I have seen,
including this one.

	By the way Mr. Coward, what is your name?

# $# If someone says you're a threat to the state, how should
# $# you be allowed to answer such charges before action is taken?
 
# $	You do not need to answer.  Just avoid VOLUNTARY membership in
# $organizations whose raison de etre is to be a threat to the state.
 
# If membership in such an organization is a crime itself then you should be
# allowed to see and confront the evidence that, proves your membership, or
# otherwise somehow demonstrates you're a threat to the state.

	They voluntarily joined.  They created the evidence.  How is that
for confronting it?

# The WWII JA
# internees were likewise denied the right to confront the evidence of
# their threat.

	The WWII JA were interned because they were Japanese.  Something
which is INvoluntary.  If you cannot see the difference, you have
problems.

# $# }# Whether you're not liked because of your last name or the shape
# $# }# of your eyes, or because of your political positions or suspected acts, if the
# $# }# threat you pose to the state is such that extreme measures, i.e. internment
# $# }# or deportation, are warrented, then you deserve your day in court to confront
# $# }# and defend against the evidence of your alleged "demonstratable and definite
# $# }# threat" BEFORE sentence is carried out.

# $# }	Not if going through this imposes an unacceptable threat to the
# $# }population.  And if you believe otherwise you are being both wrong,
# $# }impracticle, and suicidal should you ever be faced with such a
# $# }situation.
 
# $# Again, who and how is this "unacceptable threat to the population"
# $# supposed to be determined?  Where is the standard by which someone
# $# may be judged to be such a threat?  Are you saying it's enough just
# $# to make the accusation?

	By the way, Mr. Coward, what is your name?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24691 soc.culture.greek:12046