From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:18:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr16.111018.8279@swift.cs.tcd.ie>, mbrennan@swift.cs.tcd.ie (Micheal O'Braonain) writes:
> Your concern for the Catholics of West Belfast is touching.  I hope it isn't
> detracting from your concern for other ethnic minorities who are being
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So Catholics are ethnic minorities??? Geez - I hadn't realized that...

> exploited, live in danger and fear of the law and exist in a hostile and
> alien society.  

Correct - they live in a FOREIGN country - NOT their own - unlike the
Irish Catholics in NI...

> Take for instance all those nice Mexicans who "don't live"
> in southern California.  You know the ones who dont't speak English, who
> clean your hotel room, keep the grounds tidy, work on assembly lines, pick
> the fruit crop, and regularly get deported.

Again, the comparison is ridiculous as you admit that these individuals are
not Americans and are illegally in the US but before I respond to you, let
me mention that I agree with what you have said (and say below) with respect
to the situation of Central Americans who are in this country as "illegals".

> Convince me that Mexicans in California are not exploited; that Californian
> service industries could continue without illegal immegrants; that the
> Californian fruit crop would be harvested.  Be warned, I witnessed too
> much sickening exploitation to be fobbed off by platitudes or cliches.

 I'm from Arizona - I see a hell of a lot more exploitation of central
Americans than you do buddy. I agree with you - BUT I also have a tough
time responding to the fact that for many of these "illegals", it is
a matter of life or death - they simply have no jobs in Mexico - tell
me, do you think that they are somehow forced across the border to
work picking lettuce in Cal? I doubt it - they come of their own free
will because they believe that their few months in the US working menial
jobs is going to allow them and their families to survive - something
that they cannot guarantee if they stay in Mexico (or any other Central
American country). It would seem to me that it is the duty of the
Mexican govt. to  supply its peoples with conditions and jobs which
would not require their citizens to cross a border to work for peanuts
in order to survive. I live less than an hour away from the border - I 
have visited Mexico many times - the conditions are pathetic, the
border towns (supposedly the "healthiesT" economies in Mexico) are 
not much above the worst conditions that exist in this country. The
poor and unemployed are everywhere. People from all over central america
hit these border towns with the hope of finding someone who will
take them across to the US where they might find work. If these people
were worse off here than in their homelands, I do not think they
would come to this country in the vast numbers they do.

> > Irish-Americans are far better off as a whole than are the 
> > Irish themselves... 
> Pity we don't have any blacks or mexicans round here to exploit!

 There are few ethnic groups in this country who were exploited worse than
the Irish. Much like the central Americans you speak of above, Irish were
forced to take the menial jobs that others would not. They lived in
slums of major port cities and suffered discrimination at a level as high
as almost any ethnic group that comes to mind. Your implication that they
 "made it" on the backs of exploited blacks and central americans is insulting
and absurd. 

> Gary as an American-Irish you've got a lot of exploited people and groups
> to worry about!  How about cleaning up your own back yard a bit before
> you look over your neighbours fence?

 You seem to be saying "Yes the catholics in the north are discriminated
against and exploited - but you have no right to say it until there are
no illegal immigrants or exploited groups in your country" - if so, then
your argument is weak at best... I have never denied the problems in this
country, and I certainly do not deny you the right to point them out
or comment on them (although s.c.c is kind of a strange place to discuss
exploited US groups).

			gln