HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:02:53 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

Paula Lieberman writes:
> re article by Dan Johnson:  The Amiga chipset offloads stuff like pushing
> pixels around on the screen from the 68xxx engine -- it's a piece of
> inanity in my opinion that Apple has machines using the 680x0 pushing
> screen pixels --

Err... then I guess you're claiming that the Amiga is also inane for using
its 680x0 for "pushing pixels around" when playing back your favorite ANIM?

> what a waste of a high power microprocessor, hand it off
> to something else to instead of wasting a 68xxx cycle doing something a
> much stupider chip can handle, and let the 68xxx do things that need a
> 68xxx, instead of using a Ferrari to take the garbage to the dump......
 
Like the way the Amiga doesn't use a FDC chip to handle mundane floppy chores?

While your high opinion of offloading work is valid, I have a feeling that
you're one of those naive "amiga chips are magic" types.  Very useful in
particular situations?  Yes!  Handle everything, and in the best way?  No!

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@cs.mcgill.ca (Gerald (Jerry) KUCH)
Subject: Re: Juicy tidbits
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:41:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.060615.20849@ux.acs.umn.edu> har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>
>>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
>>| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
>>|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
>>|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
>>|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
>
>*please* trim that down. I know my .sig is a bit long, but really...

Oh come on, it's only five lines.  Yours is four lines.  Four lines is pretty
typical.  If his signature was ten lines long, I'd see reason for bitching,
but five lines?  Who cares?

Why don't we just start complaining about his Guns 'N' Roses quote now...no,
better yet, let's flame him for that "Drummers do it endlessly and 
repetitively" thing....

Oh great...the comp.sys.amiga.advocacy 'your signature is too long' flame
war....how wonderful.  But it does have somewhat more inherent technical
merit and content than anything that Nish Patel has vomitted forth so far...

>Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
>line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
>"I love using MS-DOS - waiting for the machine gives me so much free time!"
>har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)

Hey!  That Love Incarnate thing is 14 wasted bytes!  Lay off!  Stop pissing
away bandwidth on....aww, screw it, I can't bring myself to go on... :-)

-- 
 Jerry Kuch (jerry@cs.mcgill.ca) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
 "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
  Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet."
                  --- M. Burns  "Treehouse of Horror II"
From: mikeh@starnine.UUCP (Mike Haas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:46:40 GMT
Reply-To: mikeh@starnine.UUCP
Organization: StarNine Techonoligies, Inc., Berkeley

In article <2766@faatcrl.UUCP| jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
|Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
|
||Macs, the machine that proves P.T. Barnum correct......
|
|Amigas, the machine for people with functional frontal lobes...
|
|  -jack-

Jack, if by this you are inferring that Mac users do NOT have
functional frontal lobes, I would have to say that evidence would
seem to support you.

Witness the prices they paid for their slow,
single-threaded, bloated machines.  (I think it's that "happy
mac" that hooks 'em!  What else could it be?).

These excerpts (verbatim) from today's MacWeek would seem to be,
in themselves, statements as to the computer literacy of mac owners...



    MacWeek - April 13, 1992 Volume 6 Number 15, Page 1
    ---------------------------------------------------

Excerpts from "Tune-Up recalled after Apple finds memory glitch"

Cupertino, CA...

"Ten days after releasing a patch that was supposed to squash
a nettlesome bug in the Mac file system, Apple last week
recalled System 7's Tune-Up 1.1 after discovering that the fix
itself could cause problems..."

"...(Apple) recommended that people who have installed Tune-Up
1.1 keep using it until they can get Version 1.1.1, unless
they are experiencing crashes..."

"...Apple had not originally planned to offer an installer script
for the Tune-Ups but added one after testing showed that only
40 percent of users could successfully drag-copy a file to
their System folders..."



Tune-up...eh?  Seems what's really needed is "Overhaul 1.0".

And Paula, isn't there another saying about "build a machine
a fool can use..." or somesuch?
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re:     C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:00:16 GMT

In article <root.01ev@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>
>Someone just mentioned in comp.risks that Windows 3.1 comes with disk
>caching turned on, by default.  If a secretary who uses Word for Windows
>all day saves her file, exits Word, and then shuts off her machine, there
>goes all or some of her work.  She will have to explicitly go to a DOS
>shell and sync the drives before she can shut off the machine.
>

This is not true.

>
>Rick Kelly
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: dvan@pnet01.cts.com (David Vandeven)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:16:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Apr08.171609.10698
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA

rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey) writes:
>In article <1992Mar30.081609.4441@crash.cts.com>, dvan@pnet01.cts.com (David Vandeven) writes:
>|> The Macintosh WILL have a full-blown CLI available shareware in the next six
>|> months that will outperform the amiga CLI in flexibility and power. 
>|> I can say no more....
>|> 
>	Gee why not?
>
>	Anyways:
>
>	1) The Amiga CLI is a moving target. Plus, AmigaDOS is
>	   capable of running many different shells all at the
>	   same time.
>
>	2) No matter what shell is used, when combined with AREXX I find
>	   it VERY hard to believe that any one shell/CLI on the Mac
>	   could be more powerful than CLI+AREXX or one of the other
>	   shells plus AREXX on the Amiga.
>
>	Gee, now I guess Apple will say IT invented interactive shells
>	and sue anybody who says otherwise...
>
>		Nice try tho,
>
>			-Rob

First, *I* am writing the shell, not Apple.  Second, almost EVERY platform I
can think of offhand has a user interface replacement (shell) available.
Including the lowly c64. (GEM!)
Third, script and batch control of programs, including interprocess control
similar to AREXX is one of the things taking me so damn long.  But I'll tell
you this, it sure is easier to write a control script for a program that has
standardized menu resources (and therin is one of the MAJOR weaknesses of
Amiga OS.  RESOURCES! Anyone that has ever programmed on the Macintosh knows
how qabsolutely lovely ResEdit is!) is sure a lot easier than having to read a
damn manual.  And oh, 100% compatibility?  Stick that in AREXX.
Golly!  Anyway, Apple had a design philosophy that might now be obselete,
people WANT more power over the OS.  But the ease with which a programmer can
implement a shell to deliver that power is testament to the well-designed
modularity of the Macintosh OS.  
And another thing, anyone that has done serious programming on both platforms
knows that there is a startling similarity between the way both systems are
designed.  Form follows function!
______________________________________________________________________________
     "What are you freaking looking at!!??!   MOMMIE!"
                                      -Frank Booth- 'What's that Smell?'
David Vandeven-     ********************************************************
Systems Progammer   *   UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!dvan  *
                    *   ARPA: crash!pnet01!dvan@nosc.mil                   *
  MAC Think C 5.0   *   INET: dvan@pnet01.cts.com                          *
      RULES!!       ********************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kholland@hydra.unm.edu (Kiernan Holland)
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 21:42:02 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <ajaffe.21u7@amiganet.chi.il.us> ajaffe@amiganet.chi.il.us (Adi Jaffe) writes:
>In article <56840@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>Is it considered proper to poke the eyes of someone who says the
>>initials GUI as "gooey"?
>
>Saw some salesbabe on the Home Shopping Network say "Microsoft gooey" once..
>Needless to say, I was throughly impressed at her technical knowledge--I mean,
>she convinced me right off the bat that she knew EXACTLY what she was talking
>about (haha, yea, right, and Elvis lives in my closet...)
>
>Ive also heard some salesgoober on the same shopping network claim that the
>"Intel 2-8-6 was the newest chip out on the market."
>
>Talk about capitalizing on a buyer's stupidity..Then again, thats the IBM way.
>
>

You watch that thing??? Ever bought anything?? I haven't. 
They suck. Their audience is the same ones who take up the 1-900 
SPELL-IT games and such. I wonder if the people who call SPELL-IT  have 
ever logically thought "how many words can I spell in two minutes?"
It is a sales rip-off scam ^&*&*^@ thing. No smart pc user 
will ever buy from:

1. IBM
2. PACKARD BELL (though sears especially).
3. HOME SHOPPER CLUBS
4. COMPUTERLAND
5. RADIO SHACK

If they do then they aren't smart are they??

Now, PC users are not stupid (the least I can say for most 
Amiga users), they are just logical. I mean, 
does CBM give you 2 years TRW warantee service, 
does CBM give you lifetime customer service, 
does CBM have a better chance of staying around?
Do AMIGA's have a chance of staying around longer than PC's??
What is software support like for the Amiga's. 
If a company buys an Amiga, who will come to fix it. 

There is a ton of questions here that so far, CBM can't give 
youa honest answer becuase they know they suck, they 
just don't want to tell you that. Of course!!!

PC's exist becuase they have more support, more users, more software
(this does not say anything about video specific, but general software),
and more hardware than you will ever see for the Amiga. 
Sure the Amiga is great, but CBM is the only one who makes them. 
Therefore, I can not have an Amiga if CBM is going to be a bunch 
of bastards and try to cheat us all. 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Graphics boards
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:36:28 GMT

cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>
>>>>Yeah, but the DMI uses a 34010 (TI) CPU, and the clones use the old
>>>>charlie-cha-wa graphics chip.
>
>[No he didn't, Matt Crowd wrote that.  If you include quotes from other
>people make you you get the author correct]

Thanks.  I am glad someone was paying attention.

>>Ooooh! For graphics cards with a coprocessor for the IBM, the 34010 is the
>>lower end processor. The cards frequently use the 34020 or the s3, which is faster than the 34020.
>>
>
>You are right for a change here Nish.  You cannot compare the DMI to
>a SVGA card.  People should be comparing the DMI with similar graphics
>cards for the PC which are usually 34020 based.  The Amiga has no
>equivalent of an SVGA card (ie. similarly priced and works with most
>software).

True.  Too bad, too.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:57:57 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>It could be, but IBM will supposedly attempt to change that view by bundling
>OS/2 with its home systems (PS/1's) and doing heavy advertising.

They had better advertise.  I just saw the latest Windows commercial by
Microsoft.  It was good.  Almost as good as the latest Intel 486 commercial.
It was interesting how these two commercial were played almost back to back.

-- Gerald
From: Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Face it, Amiga's are no good!
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:08:23 GMT
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Thu  9 Apr 92 08:15, Justin@mik.uky.edu (justin Sullivan
wrote:

 JS> Good idea.. I like NeXTs, but I don't find them to be very reliable..
 JS> I like  
 JS> Macs more. I love to play games on PCs (but not much else).. I like
 JS> the  
 JS> SPARCstation 1+ I use a lot.. Might get a nice SGI Indigo.. With all
 JS> of them,  
 JS> it's easy to get lots of work done. With one of them? I dunno.. It
 JS> wouldn't be  
 JS> as much fun.

  Hey.. I am a computer hobby person. I like computers. I will one day get
a better Amiga and more than likely get a high-end Mac. Though I can't
stand the "Mac way of doing things.." I do like some aspects of it. Heck..
one of the things I find to be great about the MAC is the fact that the
fonts are transparent rather than the Amiga which uses different fonts for
DTP  than system. 

  But.. hey.. I like the Amiga it does what I want to do. That's all.

Mike..

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

  /-----  /\     /\    /      Fandom Activity Network Magazine
 /---    /--\   /  \  /    1384 Sigur Ave. Metairie, La.  70005
/       /    \ /    \/             Editor : Mike Whalen
                     For the BEST in Science Fiction/Fantasy FANDOM!
                               Voice Phone: (504)/837-5037
------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet:                  Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.la.us
UUCP:                             rex!agwbbs!Mike_Whalen
From: alex@bilver.uucp (Alex Matulich)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:58:31 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
>Okay, now that I have your attention, I would like to know what brands of 
>beer are the favorites among comp.sys.amiga.advocacy readers.  Over the 

Old Milwaukee NA

Other than that, I like Coors Extra Gold, Strohs, and once in a while some
Bass Ale.  But they don't help my programming ability.  At least the Old
Mil NA doesn't hurt it.

-- 
 _ |__  Alex Matulich
 /(+__>  Unicorn Research Corp, 4621 N Landmark Dr, Orlando, FL 32817
//| \     UUCP:  alex@bilver.uucp   {peora|ge-dab|uunet!tous}!bilver!alex
///__)     Internet:  alex%bilver@peora.sdc.ccur.com
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Date: 9 Apr 92 09:41:02 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

Thomas Leavitt writes:
>What the bleep is OS/9?  Where can I get it?  What does it run on?

It's probably better to ask that on comp.os.os9, so I'll make it short:

OS-9 is a commercial multitasking OS used in everything from tiny embedded
apps, to factories, to naval warship and shuttle launch control/simulation.
I've used it myself on a Mac, Atari ST, STD and VMEbus computers, and a
half-dozen 680x0 custom systems.  A sibling (OS-9000) runs on PCs/Sparcs/etc.

However, the answer you're probably looking for is: yes, there's a version
for all Amiga models... it even supports memory protection on ones with
an 030... BUT the Amiga version hasn't been easily obtainable.  It's also
not cheap.  Nevertheless, there are discussions with European and American
distributors ongoing now.  I'll be sure to pass on details when available.

FWIW, I've gotten a lot of email over the past years from labs, US agencies
and schools who _wanted_ to choose Amigas, but who ended up getting some
other computer with a readily available and supported OS-9 port.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> <76703.4227@compuserve.com>
From: lsr@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom"
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:20:04 GMT

In article <1992Mar31.042348.28067@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>,
rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:

>non/copying message system. Standardized interprocess scripting language

Apple events are a standardized scripting language.  There are already multiple
front-ends that drive Apple event-aware applications.

>international fonts! (The ability to render/print left/right or right/left
>which has been in AmigaOS since day 1.) The Mac also doesn't support a 

That's false.  Apple sells versions of the Mac OS that support Japanese, Hebrew,
Arabic, ...

>dynamic keymap like the Amiga does where you can remap the keyboard to each

The keyboard mapping is defined by resources and can be changed within an
application.

>BTW, Corey, why do you keep harping on MIDI manager? It was just added
>in system 7 and not many things support it. There is still alot of

The MIDI manager was out before System 7.

>into ANYTHING, even WordProccessors!". Tell me, what is the point of
>putting an animation into a document? Sounds stupid to me. You can paste

What's the point of any animation: to communicate.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Wild rumor, potential for massive sea change in Amiga world
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:07:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.234545.23794@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>	I would be very unhappy if CBM gives up in North America; those
>big companies are too big to gain, and can only lose market share, and it
>is the responsibility of the smaller ones to make big gains. The best way
>for CBM to turn around the North American market is to sell Amigas at
>extremely competitive prices along with lots of advertising. And if that
>means selling only A600s, then that is fine for now. It is better than
>nothing.

   Not to mention the developer disparity.  Something like 85% of Commodore's
world-wide sales are in Europe, but about 80% of the Amiga developers are in
North America.  Obviously, if Commodore writes off N.A., they will be losing 
the majority of the Amiga software base (especially for applications software).

>	I hear lots of people say things like CBM is going bankrupt, or
>Atari is buying CBM, etc, or that CDI is the first of its kind and CDTV
>doesn't exist, etc.  This is CBM's fault for not advertising. And why is
>it that the price range for the Amiga has such a huge gap?
>
>	A500 = $399
>	A2000= $1600?
>	A3000= $1900 - $2500
>
>	Why is there such a large gap between the A500 and the A2000?
>Why doesn't CBM release an $800 machine? The CDTV comes close, but the
>keyboard and mouse are extra. CBM should have a professionally styled
>Amiga at the $900 price range.

   The gaps are even bigger when you consider competitive systems.  The 
A2000 is *NOT* at all competitive; it sucks even compared to a CDTV, never
mind the low-end MAC systems and 386DX VGA clones.  Commodore has absolutely
no competitive systems between the A500 and A3000 -- a gap of almost $1,500.
Whoever has been structuring the product lines at Commodore is asleep at the
wheel.

>-- 
>      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
>     // Today is my 21st brithday, and I still have high insurance!
>   \X/  Liverpool, New York	flames to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Apple "Loses" Look-and-Feel Lawsuit
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:12:48 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

U.S. District Court Judge Walker today dismissed most of the $5 billion,
four-year-old, Apple lawsuit against Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard over
alleged Mac "look and feel" copying by MS Windows 2.03 and HP's NewWave.

Previously, the court had ruled that 179 of 189 alleged infringing visual
displays were covered by a simple-worded 1985 Microsoft/Apple agreement.

The latest pre-trial judgement dismisses even more elements, including
overlapping windows and pulldown menus, for the same reason.  Basically,
all that's left is deciding whether or not HP can use a file trashcan.

However, he made no ruling on general questions about Apple's copyrights,
or whether the newer Windows 3.0 infringes.  Apple says it will press on,
but the stock market and other observers consider the suit mostly dead.
Walker can still decide the rest of the case, or send it to jury trial.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:21:43 GMT

To Mike, Ifyou believe that you have to do so much work and overhead just to
program the 80x86, then you are obviously are NOT very good at it, and you will
not be able to produce good code for it just by looking up a few things in a
manual. This is ridiculous. There is no way you can develop as good code as 
someone proficient in it just by reading a few things about it. If you still
honestly beleive this is true, then would you mind letting an Intel programmer
develop code for both if there was some kind of comparison being done. Oh, I
know, The Intel programmer will be biased and produce junk for the m68k. But
obviously it will not work the other way around, right?

Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy