From: csfed@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Frank Doss)
Subject: Re: LIFE GOES ON UNTIL YOU DIE
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:06:53 GMT

In article <17ea97INNpfl@festus.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton) writes:
>
>>
>>The problem is not the time after death.  It's the end of time before
>>death that's the clencher.  When one loses that which he values to fill
>>the time during life, the death is no longer to be feared.
>
>I agree here.  I fear the act of dieing because of the physical pain it entails. 
>To fear losing something (i.e. the good things in life) I'm not going to need
>when I'm dead is totally irrational.

The word *fear* is probably a bad word to use for what I'm describing.
In the sense you are describing this, I would have to agree with you.

>I never said death was a "favorable prospect".  Death means oblivion; death is
>something I will never be able to experience therefore it is irrelevant.
>(By death I mean the period when I am dead, not the time I am alive and dieing).

True.

>>>>Fear of death does not stem only from a fear of some mythical punishment
>>>>in the mythical afterlife.  Fear can also grow from a fear of losing
>>>>what one currently has.
>>>
>>>Should someone fear the act of losing something or or should they fear having to
>>>endure the loss?  Say you know your going to die in an hour, are you going to
>>>care if someone steals your wallet?  Are you mad because someone stole your
>>>wallet or because you can't use it anymore?
>>
>>I think you are looking at this from the point of view of the dead.  Of
>>course, a non-existant being (a dead human) would not--could not--care
>>one way or another about being dead.  A live being (me) just wants (as
>>irrational as it may seem) to live.
>
>You seem to have the idea I hate life.  You are completely wrong.  I'm simply

I was not trying to say that you hate life.  I retract anything that may
have lead you to think I did say so.

>saying that death is an irrelevant period of time that can be neither good or
>bad.  I choose to live, because I view life as a "good thing".  I enjoy life, and
>I do not consider that irrational.
>
>>
>>As for you wallet analogy...  I do not let some fear of losing my wallet
>>(or rather the contents thereof) overly change the way I conduct my
>>life.  I may refrain from leaving it on store counters, flashing the
>>bills within to strangers, and so on.  However, I do not worry myself
>>over the possibility that the wallet or its contents may be lost.  I
>>shall continue to exist in any case.
>
>No, you completely missed my point.  Which scenario would you care more about if
>you lost your wallet:
>
>1)  You know you're going to die in an hour.
>2)  There's no reason you shouldn't live to a ripe old age.

The loss can be recovered.  I have yet to lose anything that time or a
little work cannot erase.  However, I would have to deal with the loss
one way or another.  The loss of life cannot be dealt with by the dead.

>I gaurantee that most people would care about case 2).  This is because you'll
>have to experience the problems of losing your wallet.  My point is that death
>makes the future after it irrelevant.

You point is quite valid, IMO.

>In the future, I advise you not to bring personal experiences into the
>discussion.  

True, but it helped explain the attitude I was presenting.

>I will now say that life in and of itself is neither a good or bad
>thing.  Life is only important when it allows us to experience happiness, and I
>mean this in the long-term.  

I agree, and will take issue with anyone who counters your comment on
happiness.

>If I was in a situation where I was permanently
>miserable, I would want to die, because life would cease to be a "good thing". 
>For others to condemn someone for wanting to escape misery is to be extremely
>selfish.

And again, we are in agreement.

>Jon Newton

-- 

Frank Doss 
The above stated words are my opinions and do not reflect the opinions,
attitudes, or policies of my employer or any affilliated organizations.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism