From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Subject: Re: Solution for East Timor?
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology
	<1992Oct30.122239.25691@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
	<LMS.92Oct31020318@rle-vlsi.mit.edu>
	<1992Nov4.063702.12006@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:15:14 GMT



   In article <1992Nov4.063702.12006@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
   okidz@ccs.northeastern.edu (Oki D Zakaria) writes:

   In article <LMS.92Oct31020318@rle-vlsi.mit.edu> lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu writes:
   >
   >How many of them would you think there are? 

   Not so many.

And your opinion is based on what facts ?  Indonesian government data ?  it is certainly not what most of the world press says.

   >what is their support
   >among the population ?  

   I don't have the facts.

Don't you think this is essential to the discussion of the problem ?
[note that I do not claim to know all the facts either].

Shouldn't we (the rest of the world) find out for sure what these
"facts" are (for instance by promoting free elections in East Timor)?

   This is not what I asked for, and I think my question is not quite clear.
   It should have been: What had the Portuguese done in East Timor from
   the begining of the colonization to the end? Any developments? Or just
   exploiting the people? 

Let us assume for a moment that the Portuguese only exploited the East
Timorese and that they (the Maubere) are much better without the
portuguese colonizers.

I still think that that has no bearing on the issue at hand, since it
certainly does not mean that the East Timorese are better under the
Indonesian occupation, nor that they prefer to be in their present
situation.  What if they do not want either of the possibilities ?

   However, by looking
   at the abrupt Portuguese departure from East Timor, I would say that
   Portugal no longer had any interest in East Timor.

And still does not have any interest in East Timor!  Let us make this
clear once and for all.  Portugal has merely trying to push for a
peaceful solution that is acceptable by all involved parties!

Since 1974 Portugal has no colonies any more (and no desire to have
them; or ability to keep them, IMHO).  Our position has been one of
trying to make sure the East Timorese have the option to decide their
future instead of being imposed a "solution" that please Indonesia
(and the US).

   Why did Portuguese lose any interest? Imho, it's the outcome of (bad)
   colonization.

In my opinion, colonization is always bad, no matter what or where.

   The thing I don't understand is that Portuguese seem wanting a country
   built by the East Timorese alone. This idea is quite questionable. What
   could we expect from the East Timor 'society wreckage'? Would the East 
   Timorese be successful in building a better place from scratch in a place
   who was abandoned by the former owner?) Today, the advanced
   country has been moving to the information era, the developing ones to the 
   industrial stages. And the Portuguese want a group of people with a stone
   age intellectual level to create a small nice country? How would they
   survive in such a hard environment?

I am not sure i understand your point of view correctly (in fact I
hope not).  Are you trying to say that the East Timorese have a stone
age intellectual level and therefore should be discarded (their
opinions I mean).

I believe this would be a violation of the most elementary human
rights.  Who are we to decide who's intellectual level is higher?  In
fact what is this "intellectual level" thing?  Are we some sort of
superior entity that can judge other civilisations by our parameters
alone and discard their wishes and rights?


   >and discussing the problem even before it became widespreadly talked
   >about in Portugal... Chomsky for once).
   >                     ^^^^^^^
   (Highly intelligent discussions, huh? ;-)

Could you elaborate on your idea ?  Do you mean to say Mr. Chomsky is
also of a minor intellelectual level and therefore incapable of what
you perceive to be "highly intelligent discussions" (yes, I did see
the smiley, but did not follow on the irony).


   In the contrary. Anyone who made mistakes could easily point out the
   other's errors. The one I don't like is when the unfairness gets on stage.
   The one who makes recent mistakes gets blamed out of proportions, and the
   one who pinpoint the errors don't want to talk about the past due to the
   fact that it is the past; that the recent has no relations with the past.

This is not about who gets to be the meanest.  Portugal has
responsabilities in the matter.  The fact that we are working to try
and achieve a peaceful solution for the problem should be a clear
indication that we do not forget those responsabilities.

That the past relates to the future should be obvious from the fact
that Portugal is actively involved in the problem.

Still that does not absolve the Indonesians from their own
responsabilities and, from your own words, from their "recent
mistakes".  Both countries have made mistakes.  Unfortunately the East
Timorese have suffered in both cases.  It is time they were given some
role in their own lives.


Best regards,

-Miguel


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Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
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