HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: Sweden in Europe?
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:55:24 GMT

In article <14ebd1INNa99@agate.berkeley.edu>, hugo@mendel.berkeley.edu (Hugo Calendar) writes:
> Sweden would be a powerless speck surrounded by a superpower.  That is
> to say, you can't beat them, so join them.  Consider for a moment the
> effects on any given state in the USA if that state were to become
> seperate and sovereign -- depending on how far the EC/EU goes, this
> could be a very good parallel.

Maybe San Marino deciding not to join the unified state of Italy
is a better parallel, simply for being an actual case, if not for
being comparable in size?

I agree that one may have a tough time staying out of something
in spite of everybody else joining (especially when you represent
a mere fraction of a percent of the total population).  Is this
to say that a politically unified and singular world would be a
good thing, were it ever to exist?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi     (Jyrki Kimmel)
Subject: Travel Notes from Denmark and Sweden
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT/SAI)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:49:08 GMT


I am back at "work" after a long "vacation" :-) which we, that is,
my wife, my seven-year old son, and my three-year old daughter and I,
spent partly in Denmark and Sweden, touring by automobile.

Hindsight is the best wisdom, they say, and thus, I am obliged to
disseminate this acquired knowledge in a few pieces of advice to all
subscribers of s.c.n (Hi Lyle!):

1. When traveling in Norden, do not think you do better in Nordic 
   languages if you know some English.

2. Corollary: A danish 'mil' is something different than a mile, let alone
   the Swedish 'mil' (10 km). Specifically, the distance to the
   nearest supermarket cannot be 200 km.

3. It is not a good idea to lose your travel cash, even for a day, and not
   even in the upholstety of your car. Even if you have 'plastic', a
   certain amount of 'paper' is good for the morale of the crew.

4. Corollary: if you do lose your travel cash, do not admit it, but
   lay the blame on somebody else. That way you are intact if you find
   the cash in the upholstery of the car a day later. 

5. No amount of planned activities for the kids is enough to keep them from
   whining on the back seat of the car.

6. Corollary: if you plan to go see Denmark by car, just drive to Legoland
   and back. Do not bother about any other goals on the way.

7. It is possible to find a highest point on a flat plane. (Denmark)

8. It does not pay to buy masses of film and then drop your camera
   on the pier in a fishing village. On the other hand, it is better
   to grab your kid by the arm and drop the camera, if you have to, and
   not let the kid fall in the sea and save the camera.

9. Gas is cheaper in the nearest neighboring country, which you find out only
   after filling the tank in the previous one.

10. You can't buy tax-free booze on the Helsingor-Helsingborg ferry.

I wonder where our travels take us next...

Jyrki
-- 
Jyrki Kimmel, VTT Medical Engineering Laboratory kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi
signature in proposal in peer review phase (PPRP). Proposed motto:
"El{m{ on kivaa!" ("Life is fun!")  -Kaisa-Maria, age 3
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: exjtmm@tts.lth.se (Thommy M. Malmstr|m)
Subject: Re: Laughing at americans
Organization: Communication Systems, Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
	<1992Jul16.010400.27061@alf.uib.no>	<1992Jul17.110259.8147@ugle.unit.no>	<1992Jul18.023908.13147@alf.uib.no>	<1992Jul20.071842.8407@ugle.unit.no>,<EXJTMM.92Jul20094427@ida28.tts.lth.se>
	<1992Jul20.162011.25613@kth.se>
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:39:30

>>>>> "TE" == Tomas Eriksson <tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE> writes:

TE> ...and as I have understood the discussion on swnet.politik you *don't* 
TE> want to join Europe... :-)

Please Tomas, learn this once and for all: Europe is a continent
bounded in the east by the Urals, in the south by the Mediterranean,
in the west by the Atlantic and in the north by the Arctic Ocean.
We can't join something we're already in! Got it?

TE> ...or perhaps you and your fellow green party people think that EC is 
TE> *not* in Europe?

EC is sure in Europe but EC is not, and will never be, the same as
Europe.

/Thommy M.

--
Thommy M. MALMSTR\M    |  o ,__Q  |  Lund Institute of Technology
K{mn{rsv{gen 3 A:202   |  \-\_<,  |  Dept. of Communication Systems
S-226 46 LUND, SWEDEN  | (*)/'(*) |  Box 118, S-221 00 LUND, SWEDEN
+46-(0)46 13 21 78     |~~~~~~~~~~|  Tfn:+46-46 10 90 08, Fax:+46-46 14 58 23
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Importing goods from the U.S.????
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:59:34 GMT

Hola!

  Listen, I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with
importing anything into nordic countries -- Finland in particular, from
the U.S.  That is, for the purpose of selling it in the destination
country.

  I have an item in mind that is available in the U.S. (yes, it's a legal
substance!) which Finns have never seen before, and which I believe
could go over quite well here.  I have absolutely no idea where to 
begin in pursuing this idea, so thought that maybe someone here could
help.  So, any experienced entrepreneurs out there?

Thanks,

--Paul

-- 
/************************************************************************/
/* Paul V. Brown                 *   "I kid thee not"                   */
/* pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi   *        -Nicolas Cage                 */
/*                               *            "Peggy Sue Got Married"   */
/************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Shoes inside (Was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
	<BJORN.92Jul25001825@Minsk.docs.uu.se>
	<1992Jul25.003220.20493@aero.org> <1992Jul27.053253.1491@sai.vtt.fi>
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:00:55

>>>>> kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi     (Jyrki Kimmel) writes:

> In article <1992Jul25.003220.20493@aero.org> dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) writes:

>>> It takes a conscious action for me to enter a home without
>>> removing my shoes.

>> Ah: but do you leave your sword at the door?

> Finns in general do not live in a role-playing game.  We do have
> laws agains bearing arms in public. The Finnish all- purpose knife,
> puukko, specifically, is banned even when sheathed.

In Norway you can carry a knife anytime anywhere, as long as it isn't
a switchblade (which is counted as a weapon), for instance a 40cm Saami
knife is counted as a tool and thus legal to carry.

The police are not really allowed to confiscate knives, even on a
Saturday night. This doesn't stop them from confiscating them anyway.
Curiously enough the Norwegian National Knife Association has not made
a statement yet, denouncing this outragous violation of our civil
rights...;-) 

It's even been talk about outlawing knife-carrying in public places. 

> ...
> (sorry about the deviation from the original subject...)

The custom here in Norway, as well, is to remove your shoes when
entering a house.

- Steinar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hlirg@alf.uib.no (Roger Greenwald)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:44:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.152648.4556@sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.121641.25112@nntp.hut.fi> laku@vipunen.hut.fi
> (Lauri H Eklin) writes:
>
>
>   >BTW, some swedish friends told me that the "finlandssvenska"
>   >is the best-sounding version of the group swedish/norwegian/danish..
>   >and it was an opinion of not only one or two people!
>
>  Many people like finlandssvenska.
>
And many Swedes have never heard any dialects of Norwegian other
than "Oslo" and "NRK".
-- 
Roger Greenwald
Greenwald@hf.uib.no (address valid only until 10 August 1992)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: u-lchoqu%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette)
Subject: Looking for adoption contact organizations in Finland
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:27:54 MDT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

I'm looking for organizations in Finland that help adoptees and their
birthparents make contact with each other.  I know of several in the US, such
as registries where adoptees and birthparents can sign up to indicate that they
are looking for each other, and organizations that provide trained
intermediaries to assist in making contact so that nobody is injured.  However,
I don't know of any such organizations in Finland.  If someone out there does,
I would greatly appreciate it if s/he could let me know of them.

Since this topic is likely to be of little interest to the net, send me E-mail.
I will mail a summary to anyone who requests it.

PS.  If you can read the 8-bit ISO characters, E-mail me and tell me if the one
in my signature came through OK.
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
   . . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . . Du tycker du r vacker  . . . . . .
  . . u-lchoqu@peruvian.utah.edu. . . . .  men det tycker inte jag  . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Traditional Swedish love song
From: bfrahn@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Brenton Frahn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: AFS exchange: looking for Katrya Layton
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:20:37 GMT

hi there,
	my name is Brenton and i'm from Australia. I'm not sure if this is the
right newsgroup to post to but i'm looking for an Australian exchange student
, Katrya Layton (girlfriend). She left for Norway yesterday and should be
there later today. Anyhow I would appreciate it if you would keep an eye/ear
out for her and let me know if you know her. I'm not sure yet where she's
staying or what school she's going to. She also hasn't used electronic mail
before so if you do meet her could you do us BOTH a BIG favour an d help her.
My E-mail address is

	bfrahn@adelphi.adelaide.edu.au


THANKS !!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: anders@lise12.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen)
Subject: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Organization: /home/flipper/anders/.organization
	<1992Jul18.010500.9934@corax.udac.uu.se>	<sooz.711430377@vincent1.iastate.edu>,<1992Jul18.174010.14374@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Jul19.145723.11019@kth.se>
	<1992Jul19.205838.10766@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Jul23.104538.26285@klaava.Helsinki.FI> <1992Jul24.142512.1@abo.fi>
Date: 27 Jul 92 02:34:40

Someone wrote a while ago:

>>>That reminds me of another problem: I've often noticed that the local
>>>population on many of the tourists sites in Europe have a problem telling
>>>the difference between Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians.

Actually, not only does people outside Scandinavia have difficulties
with Scandinavian languages. I found the following numbers in a book
called "Spr}kr|ret", which contains transcriptions of a popular
Norwegian radio program about language.

It is a test given by military recruits, performed in the seventies.
(Sorry, there's no better description of it in the book, maybe someone
else knows more, it could be interesting to see the whole report.) It
tested how well they understood spoken language from the other
Scandinavian countries. It is not stated anything about whether
accents were used, how they measured 'understands', how many recruits
were tested, the geographically origin of those tested, or what time
of the year the test was done etc etc, so I can't guarantee the
correctness of these numbers.

Anyway, here are the numbers:

              Understands:  Swedish  Danish  Norwegian  Average         
                     --------------------------------------------------
Swedish recruits               -       23%     48%        36%
Danish recruits               49%       -      69%        58%
Norwegian recruits            88%      73%      -         81%

(Note: the "average" column comes from the book too. I'm not quite
 sure how they manage to get 58 as the average of 49 and 69 ... )

Comments on those numbers?

One interesting thing, according to these numbers, about twice as many
Danes and Norwegians understand Swedish as Swedes understand Danish
and Norwegian. 

With these kind of understanding among military recruits, perhaps a
Nordic military union isn't such a good idea after all :-)

-anders
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: Re: Shoes inside (Was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:32:20 GMT

>It takes a conscious action for me to
>enter a home without removing my shoes.

Ah: but do you leave your sword at the door?

Dave Golber

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: Re: Sweden in Europe?
Originator: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
	<EXJTMM.92Jul20094427@ida28.tts.lth.se>
	<1992Jul20.085145.9918@ugle.unit.no>
	<CINDY.92Jul20204601@solan10.solan.unit.no>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 06:41:28 GMT

In article <CINDY.92Jul20204601@solan10.solan.unit.no> cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf) writes:

>There's some graffitti in a bus stop shelter near our apartment that
>reads "NORGE UT AV EUROPA" (Norway out of Europe).

>I suppose this is taking the "Join Europe" bit to its illogical
>extreme 8-).

>How would you go about getting Norway _out_ of Europe?  Massive
>amounts of high explosives?  Shovel brigades?


Maybe they'll harness a bunch of whales to pull Norway off ...

But where are they planning to go?  America?  Africa?
The Moon?
--
Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: peer@ccrma.stanford.edu (Peer Landa)
Subject: Re: Norwegians in Formula 1 ?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 13:26:51 GMT

Jochen Grandell writes:
> 	Who is this Ronnie Peterson ?? ;-)

He was . . 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:53:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.152618.13664@midway.uchicago.edu>, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert) writes:
> We have a two year old and a sixer, hence about 5 buckets of 
> Duplo's, 3 of regular Lego's, a techno-accessory add-on (Tekniks),
> gears, wheels, mm.  Despite best efforts, these seem to
> have diffused throughout the house.  Every once in a while we
> take a rake and sweep them into the corners;  at least this
> way, the kids can build something wherever they find themselves
> temporarily unoccupied.

Have you tried providing your kids with some kind of sorting
box, where they can put each kind of Lego piece in a separate
slot or compartment, rather than throwing them all in a few
huge buckets?  When I was a kid, I had a box with maybe 40-50
small (2x2x2 inches) compartments for those tiny pieces (the
big pieces like bottom plates, long staves, rails and cogwheels
all went to the major bowl), and I recall spending quite some
time putting unused pieces back in the proper compartment.
I've learned somewhere that around the age of five or something,
kids can be very keen on putting things in order if provided
with the appropriate framework.
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:06:57 GMT
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

In article <1992Jul28.101624.21486@ugle.unit.no>, bjornmu@idt.unit.no (Bj|rn P. Munch) writes:
>In article <ANDERS.92Jul28005142@lise4.lise.unit.no>, anders@lise4.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
>|> 3) Radio and TV in Norway don't mind sending music with Swedish text.
>|>    In fact, Swedish LP/CD/whatever are often sold 'as-is' in Norway,
>|>    without being translated.
>
>Huh?  Who translates music at all?

Actually, some terrible Swedish groups (especially 'dansband' and the 
like) tend to make their own versions of foreign hits. Usually they 
succeed to
- make everything sound exactly the same, and as their own music (a 
  typical 'svensktoppen' flavour)
- completely change the lyrics (I wouldn't call it translation...)
- torture the ears of those who liked the real version

A sad practice. If they don't expose you to this kind of torture in 
Norway, you should be happy.

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: Ro"da Orm
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.040131.19085@midway.uchicago.edu> raymond thomas
pierrehumbert, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu writes:
>This all whets my appetite for history of the Viking era. Are
>there any recommendations for good texts for a casual reader?

Else Roesdahl: "The Vikings" (or such, cited from memory).
The book is by a respected scientist and has been published in both Danish
and English. I don't have any more info but saw the book in the museum shop
of the National Museum in Copenhagen. The museum has just been renovated
and is highly recommended for people with an interest in Scandinavian
pre-history.
--
Jakob Nielsen, nielsen@bellcore.com, fax (201)  829-2645
Bellcore, MRE 2P-370, 445 South St., Morristown, NJ 09792-1910, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: Sweden as the country of cheap booze
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:22:02 GMT

I just heard on the 16.45 newsbroadcast on Swedish national radio that 
the Systembolaget (the Swedish monopoly strong-beer, wine and booze 
shop, where taxes can sometimes make up 90% of the price...) shop in 
Str|mstad, close to the Norweigan border on the E6 road between Oslo 
and Gothenburg, has experienced a surge in sales since the alcohol tax 
reform July 1. Apparently Norweigans come across the border to buy 
some full-tax products. This ought to mean that Systembolaget's prices 
are lower than those of Vinmonopolet, at least for some products.

Before, the alcohol tax was both dependent on the alcohol content and
the price before tax. Now, the tax is neutral with respect to different 
products with the same alcohol concentration. You still have the +25% 
VAT (value added tax) on top of price + alcohol tax, though. The tax per 
amount of pure alcohol is not neutral with respect to alcohol 
concentration, though. You pay more tax for the same amount of pure
alcohol if you buy vodka instead of wine.

Anyway, if the price difference between, say, two bottles of whisky, is 
20 kr before tax, this meant a difference in retail price of 62,50 kr 
until June 30 this year, while the difference from July 1 is 25 kr.

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: Reading about viking. (Was: Ro"da Orm)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:47:44 GMT


>pierrehumbert, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu writes:

>>This all whets my appetite for history of the Viking era. Are
>>there any recommendations for good texts for a casual reader?

try your university bookstore.
for more in depth stuff you can try some of the stuff by m. kalinke
i dont quite remember the correct spelling of her name,
but her stuff is very interesting. when i get home i will try to find one of
her books... she does teach at the university of illinois in c-u..
so if you have questions she migth be able to answer them.
good luck
-kimberli roan

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Kimberli K Roan          * "I have heard the echoes in the dark, * IRC: good *
*901 W Main -Bsmt.        * dim and distant voices of the past,   * luck in   *
*Urbana, Il USA 61801     * and I've seen so far into the night,  * finding me*
From: mjh@stekt1.oulu.fi (Mauri Haikola)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:13:59 GMT
Organization: University of Oulu, Dept. of EE, Finland
In-reply-to: ct@dde.dk's message of 27 Jul 1992 06:48:09 -0500

In article <9207271145.AA10264@Aragorn> ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:

> ISO standard 6937 mentions that the Finnish language uses two characters
> that look like S and Z with a small v above (a hacek accent).

> I have never seen any Finnish text that uses these two characters.
> Does Finnish use them? Or has Finnish used them in the past?

There is an authority in Finland called Kielitoimisto (Language
Agency?) according to which we do have the accented s character, used
in words like "shakki" (chess) or "Tshekkoslovakia" (you know..) to
replace the "sh". It isn't used very widely though, probably because
the typing equipment usually doesn't have such a character available,
and so the use of "sh" instead is far more common, even though the
correct spelling would theoretically require using the accented s
character.

I have never seen or heard of the use of accented Z in the Finnish
language. 

Mauri