From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 10:42:22 GMT

v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

>dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes...
 > >>The O'Brien/Transporter Chief character was created starting 
 > >>with the FIRST episode of season two.  He clearly wore the rank of
 > >>Lieutenant, and in his next appearance they called him as such.

 >Partly agreed.  Scripts the second season and part of the third
 >labeled the character whose lines Colm Meaney ended up speaking
 >as TRANSPORTER CHIEF.  It wasn't until the third season, though
 >exactly which episode escapes me, that scripts began labeling
 >a character called O'BRIEN behind the transporter.

Come on...  Anyone trying to say that the "Transporter Chief" played 
by Colm in the second season was NOT Miles Edward O'Brien is just a 
very, very silly person!  :->   (Exactly WHAT was "different" about
the character and his position following the 2nd season appearance?)

 >     the third season, it was decided Meaney's character, the
 >     main TRANSPORTER CHIEF, would be given a name and a backstory.
 >     It was stupid to keep having him appear arbitrarily; if Meaney
 >     was going to continue to recur with the frequency he had during
 >     season two and the opening part of season three, he should BE SOMEONE.

Yes, of course.  But it was ONE writer's "liberty" and divergence 
from the past facts that started this whole mess.  Not the (good) 
idea to give the character more substance.

 >     We find out in "Realm of Fear" that O'Brien's run the transporter
 >     for 22 years.  This is entirely consistent with the excitement
 >     a CPO can expect during a long career in the military.

THAT sounds like it could yet another example of "misreading" what was 
said on-screen.  I'd say it was virtually *impossible* for O'Brien to
have been "running transporters" for the past 22 years.  He is just
not that OLD for one thing.  Then there is the time we heard he spent as
Tactical Officer on the Rutledge, and being involved in the Cardassian
war.  It seems a lot more likely that he was referring to being TRANSPORTED
for over 22 years...

 >>By FAR the clearest "spoken dialog" was when Riker called
 >>Miles a Lieutenant.  The vague references of Sergey hardly compare.
 >     Here's an impasse.  This reference comes from "Loud as a
 >     Whisper," doesn't it?  This is early second season: in
 >     the script for that episode, Riker is addressing TRANSPORTER
 >     CHIEF.  

So are you REALLY saying the "Transporter Chief" was NOT Miles O'Brien?
Also, we have seen T.C.'s under LT O'Brien's command who were ENSIGNS.

 >>Oversights??  Is that what you call his CONSISTENT rank in every appearance?
 >>Are you at all familiar with the term YATI??   Why is a pure *YATI* (Sergey)
 >>so much more important to some people than something *totally* consistent?

 >YES, it is what I call an oversight, because that's just what it is.

Please.  You do NOT have "oversights" in EVERY SINGLE APPEARANCE.
Suggesting that is nothing but 100% pure and total silliness IMHO.

 >Let me explain wardrobe: 
Come on...<sigh>

 >you are measured once for your costume. 

Was he "measured" for his PIPS too?  :->

 >The costume is made or bought, the proper acoutrements
 >(rank pips included) are put on the costume.  

And they stay there FOREVER, eh?  I think someone ELSE needs 
a litte explanation of wardrobe here...

 >The uniform O'Brien wears was therefore FIRST CREATED FOR 
 >'Transporter Chief.'

aka LT Miles Edward O'Brien.  Sheesh...  In case you didn't know, 
he did NOT wear the exact same one single uniform for all those 
seasons.  BUT, the LTs pips *did* always stay exactly the same.
More "oversights", eh?  Get serious.

 >TNG changed costumes between the second and third season.
 >And Colm Meaney was wearing season two's wardrobe most of 
 >the third season, wasn't he?

Just like nearly everyone else other than the main cast.  Is there a point?
Miles DID eventually get the new uniform, and once again his rank pips
stayed exactly the same.  

 >Maybe what you're not seeing is this: NOBODY but Star Trek
 >geeks watches the show SO CLOSELY as to be irked by the 
 >appearance or disappearance of a couple of buttons.

As far is being "irked" goes, you are somewhat correct, BUT there
absolutely IS supposed to be people paying attention to these things
on the show.  The fact that up until this season the pips were almost
always done very consistently show that fact...

 >> >O'Brien WILL be promoted from CPO to Chief Operations Officer on DS9.
 >>That would be a perfect position for a Lt. Commander, 
 >>which would have been O'Brien's next step up in rank...

 >It wouldn't be a perfect position for a Lt Commander when the 
 >Commanding Officer of DS9 is himself a Commander in rank.  

Are you referring to CAPTAIN BENJAMIN SISKO: Commander of the station??
OK, let me explain it to you....  His RANK is Captain, and his POSITION 
is *commander* of Station Deep Space Nine.  Got it?   Just like Miles'
*position* was Transporter Chief, with the rank of Lieutenant.

 >Wake up and get over yourself 
Heh... good advice!  :->

 >whatever the inconsistencies you remember from the second season,

What would those be?  All i'm remembering are the CONSISTENCIES 
from the second thru FIFTH seasons...

 >it really is CLEAR O'Brien is being written as a CPO  NOW AT THIS POINT.

No, NOTHING is at all clear at this point.  That is the problem.

 >>So you have spoken to ALL those people over this last week?
 > Give it a rest.  

Good idea.  I dropped out of this ridiculous thread for a long time,
but the recent season six pip insanity somehow drew me back in...<sigh>

 >If you're so inclined, go to a show and ASK SOMEONE on stage 
 >what the deal with O'Brien is.  

Ha!  No thanks, I don't ask lame questions like that under those circumstances.
I *have* been around when other people did though, and the standard answer from
them during the last couple of seasons was "we don't really know what he is
anymore".  BUT, I have spent time talking with various production people in
one-on-one situations at those events, and they also always say that TWO pips
makes one a Lieutenant (big surprise).