HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Where can I get an Israeli flag?
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 24 Dec 92 08:20:39 GMT

I am looking for a cloth Israeli flag to display in my window...
no bigger than say 1 meter by 1.5 meters or so.
Does anyone know where I can get a flag like this and
how much one would cost?
Thanks for your help...


--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,sci.lang
From: howeird@hpl.hp.com (Howard Stateman)
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:49:21 GMT
Organization: Society for Obfuscation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

: >I've heard the same thing on a Finnish TV channel - It was the interview of
: >Turkey's president (Ozal or something like that).  It was he who told about 
: >his childhood and having to read the book in question, where Finland was a 
: >model society (it sounded funny,really).  He said that it's a widespread 
: >belief in Turkey that the Turks and the Finns are somehow related.  So if 

Forgive me if this has already been brought up (I just started reading
this group), but my Finnish friends are fond of telling me that the
language of their homeland is most closely related to Hungarian. Not
Turkish. However, with the long history of fierce wars between Hungary and
Turkey, I would be surprised if there wasn't considerable overlap in the
two languages.

.....................................................................
 Howard Stateman            | I knew French was a language by age 6.  . 
 howeird@hpl.HP.COM         | At 19 I discovered it was also a tongue..  
 [Not an HP spokesman]      |Anatomically Correct BBS (415) 8-jovial  .
....................................................................... 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Israel Shells Perimeter of Exile Camp
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:36:48 GMT


According to NPR (11 AM EST, 3-1-92), Israeli military sources confirmed
that they had fired artillery at targets nearby to the Palestinian exile
camp. Shrapnel fell inside the camp and some shells struck within 500
meters of the camp. It was reported that this may be an attempt by
Israel to drive the exiles into Lebanon. Israeli sources stated that the
shelling was directed against "suspicious" targets in the area (perhaps
Lebanese "terrorists" bringing in aid?).

Brad "Ali" Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: jcg@teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:31:22 GMT
Reply-To: jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Organization: Teradata Corp., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Dec15.191539.25308@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>In article <1gk9ntINNhi8@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>In article 13903@colorado.edu, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>>In article <1ghva1INN9k0@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
...
>>>account that within a decade, the situation would most probably have
>>>been reversed, due to large scale Jewish immigration  - not only new
>>>arrivals, but also those who finally could get in after not having been
>>>able to for years.  Think about it for a few minutes and you might
>>>change your mind.
>>
>>Of course I am aware of this argument.  It was the argument used as
>>justification for the unequal division at the time.  The problem
>>is, why were the Palestinian Arabs obliged to accept the Zionist
>>value system?  The purposeful gathering of Jews from other places
>>might have been a cornerstone of Zionist thinking (regarded as
>>"good" almost by definition) but I don't know why anyone else
>>must regard it so, a priori.

Well, since Brendan is on vacation and I'm getting tired of the insinuations
you load your arguments with, Eric, I'll take up his banner for a moment.

>A priori, perhaps not.  But considering that both British policy during
>the war did just about everything to prevent Jews escaping the shoah to
>enter mandatory Palestine, and also that Arab policy was even more
>dead-set against such immigration (from what I know) it would be crass
>at the least not to expect that to be something that the Jewish
>population wanted very badly.

Come on Eric, don't be coy.  Spit it out!  Is Brendan "crass", or maybe
(nudge, wink) he's (gasp) more than "crass"!  Then again maybe he hasn't
_ever_ denied  that "the Jewish population wanted [it] very badly" -
especially given that the Zionists by definition wanted it very badly 
regardless of outside circumstances; and maybe you're just enmerding up
your silly argument.

The rhetoric about Palestinians is just as insidious if not as personal.
The Palestinians where hardly in the best position to either succor or
anticipate the impending genocide of Europe's Jews.  Their choice seemed to
be between accepting continued disenfranchiment or struggling against the
immigration.  Given what did happen, it's hard to argue they were incorrect.

>I don't think that to accept the
>partition forced acceptance of the Zionist value system.

Yes, you _do_.  You do unless you are walking away from the argument you
made above - that the partition was not disproportionate because we haven't
counted the Jews who wanted to immigrate.  Something the Arabs wanted very
badly not.

Jon.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24252 soc.culture.arabic:5995
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Deportee Mistaken Identity
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:49:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



The New York Times, Dec 28, 1992

"The Israeli newspaper Haaretz, citing army officials, said today
 that 6 of the 415 deportees were victims of mistaken identity and
 should not have been exiled.

 Oded Ben-Ami, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry, said that he
 was not aware of any "mistakes" in the deportation process, but
 that the families of the deportees could raise appeals.

 Taher Shriteh, a Palestinian journalist who works for several news
 organizations, including the New York Times, was taken to the
 Lebanese border with the other Palestinians last week and nearly
 deported.  After releasing him, Israeli officials said his seizure
 had been a mistake."
                                                      

-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24282 talk.politics.soviet:10044 soc.culture.greek:11929 soc.culture.europe:10866 soc.history:10421 soc.culture.soviet:11644 soc.culture.turkish:13649
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:11:11 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec21.223851.6170@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.080036.0106498@locus.com> jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:
>
>>To die for the name of God is to fight those that opress the muslims,
>
>How do you explain the Jihad that the Ayatollah declared against
>Saddam, in which 1-2 million Muslims were slaughtered?  I know that 
>Saddam isn't that religious but was he "oppressing Muslims"?

After all this time, Jake, you still don't understand?  Or is it
that you simply refuse to understand?  And here, all along, I
thought we were trying to enlight each other.

>Yeah, right, just like the Hamas people have been killing off the 
>PLO people in Gaza.  Are you now accusing the PLO of "oppression"?
>This would be a switch for you.

No.  The popularity in the Territories are for the Hamas - this
after two years of idol and non-productive talk at the 'peace'
tables.  Now Israel is pinning the Hamas up to rival against the
PLO and Palestinian peoples.  Very clever.  Your tricks never cease
to amaze us.

>Westerners looking at the hundreds of Muslims killed in Israel, the
>thousands killed in Jordan, the tens of thousands killed in Syria and
>the million or 2 killed in Iran/Iraq have to start wondering if it is 
>joy, after all.

True.  This is all true.  But that does not give any vindication for
Israel's crimes against humanity either.  But who is responsible for
this?  Who is allowing these ruthless leaders to continue in the wake
of their murderous and bloody histories?

Anisa (returning the fire)

	"Open your hear - showing the anger and pain
	 - so you heal."  [Shaking the Tree]
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz)
Subject: JOKE (was Re: Hamas)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:24:47 GMT

In article <42941@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
><1ht1nmINNrkh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>>hamas targets its attacks against soldiers not civilians. 
>
>	The attack on Pearl Harbor was also directed primarily
>	against soldiers.  
>

	This remind me of a joke......

	An Israeli goes to Japan and enters a bar. After couple
	of drinks, he approaches one of the Japanees men, introduces
	himself, and starts knocking on the Japanees head. 

	Japanees: 	Why are you hitting me?
	Israeli:  	You bombed Pearl Harbor .......!?!

	After a while the Japannes approaches the Israeli and starts
	knocking the Israeli on the head.

	Israeli:  	Why are you hitting me?
	Japanees: 	You sanked the Titanic.
	Israeli:	Are you nuts?, It was an ICEBERG!
	Japanees:	Iceberg, Goldberg, Rotenberg.... what is the difference??????......
-- 
________________________________________________________________________
		       __        _    
  =_   __   ___    =  /  )      / )   ==========   diaz@sigi.sps.mot.com
 =  ) /_ )     )  =  /--<  _  -/-     == oakhill!sigi!diaz@cs.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Deportees as Hostages
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:12:57 GMT


According to the VOA (0500 UTC, 2-1-93) Rabin has proposed that the
Palestinian which his government has exiled, will be permitted back to
their homes in 90 days if Palestinians cease physical resistance to his
government's military occupation.

How ever you look at it, prisoners (or exiles) who are sentenced pending
the good behaviour of others are nothing but hostages. This is a
continuation of the Israeli policy of terrorist coercion. It comes as no
surprise because the Israeli government regularly imprisons Palestinians
without charges (it is called "administrative detention"). Such
imprisonment is intended to keep the Palestinian population in fear that
if they do not make their fellow Palestinians "behave" they might end up
in prison without any reason. A similar policy is employed in Lebanon.
Israel retains hundreds of hostages in Khiam prison with the intent of
controlling the local populations. Israel's policy of striking at
Lebanese villages in "retaliation" for attacks on Israeli soldiers
occupying Lebanon is another example of this.

For those fellow Americans who are reading this, you should be aware
that, although the American hostages have been released by their captors
in Lebanon, nothing has really changed. Israel, which our government
blindly supports, continues its policy of hostage taking unabated. Thus,
one of the primary reasons that Americans were taken hostage still remains.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli Nazism? (Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the J)
Date: 27 Dec 92 17:27:01 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec26.202015.4798@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:
> Anisa cleverly tries to associate Israeli defensive actions with
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Nazism, in a message as offensive as it is inaccurate.
> 
> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
> 
> >All this talk about Nazism as equitable/inequitable to Israel's
> >ruthlessness towards Palestinians never mentioned the fact that
> >Israel reciprocates in the same manner as the Nazis did during
> >their own occupation of Europe.  And that is, for every soldier
> >killed, handfuls of civilians were murdered.
> 
> Israel has deported terrorists;  the Nazis mass murdered innocent men,
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> women and children.

Was it permissible for Nazi Germany to imprison these people (without
killing them)? Your comments above would imply that you believe that
Nazis were justified in stuffing concentration camps with people. 

BTW, Anisa was not making a comparison between Nazi concentration camps
but between the action of Nazi occupation troops and Israeli occupation
troops. Actually, in my opinion, any country which chooses to maintain
an oppressive occupation will behave similarly. 

From what you have said above, you would make a good concentration camp
Nazi, I think. Out of sight out of mind, eh? :-) 

> Of course, the Nazi big lie technique has been a favorite of those
> trying to destroy Israel, so we shouldn't be surprised at Anisa's
> tactics.
> -- 
> Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: odkahn@eos.ncsu.edu (OPHER DANIEL KAHN)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:28:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.135001.26349@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>>>
>>>   Because Moslem fanatics want to destroy Israel,
>>>and Israel doesn't want to be destroyed.
>>
>>And if you believe its as simple as that I have some real-estate you may
>>be interested in...  This type of statement would sure make history books
>>very short and simple.  Too bad real life is much more complicated!
>
>   Middle-east politics is extremely complicated and unpredictable,
>but the main reason for Israeli-Arab conflict is pretty obvious.
>This is a complicated game with very simple rules. Ever played go?
>
>Dan

And what is that obvious reason? Just those Moslem fanatics?  And Israel is
just a large collection of angels...  Like I said, it is not simple at all.
Both sides have contributed considerably to the problem, and claiming innocence
on EITHER side is ridiculous.  I think that the first step to ANY solution will
be for BOTH sides to recognize this.

-- 
 Opher D. Kahn 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: deportaion
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:18:29 GMT

In article <osamakl.725483914@vincent2.iastate.edu> osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef) writes:
>In talk.politics.mideast makowsky writes (Some parts are deleted. You
>can go to previous articles):
>
>
>> 	It is Judea and Samaria.  The territories were liberated in the
>> 1967 Six Day war forced on Israel by the Arabs.  The only occupying is
>> done by the Arabs who still occupy Jewish (they have mezuza holes - a
>> mezuza is a Jewish ritual object) homes which were taken when all the
>> Jews were either kicked out or expelled.
>
>It is the occupied territories. If you recall well history, you will 
>realize where most of the Jews came from. You came from Poland, Russia, 
>Germany, Morocco, etc... Can you prove that all of you are the Jews that
>once lived in that land? 

Oh, so in order to have had any right to return, you would require a
genealogy going back 2000 years, something you know very very few people
have?  My family can prove it's Jewish going back at least 400 years -
but that's about as far back as anyone I've ever heard of knowing their
family tree.  Further, in both Arab and E. European societies there was
very little intermarriage.  Plus, do we have to prove that we have *no*
non-Jewish ancestors?  Seems very ridiculous.  We're native to the land.
It's time that was recognized.

Rest deleted.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: craziness and brotherly love
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:19:57 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre CGU

In article <1992Dec16.155607.23608@cs.brown.edu>, H.M. writes:
> OK, so we all knew Arafat was crazy a long time ago. But in yet
> another example of the deep love all Arabs feel for their fellow
> brethren we see that the final, unarguable, unrefutable proof of this
> fact was when Arafat declared that a part of land which Syria thinks
> belongs to Syria in fact belongs to the Palestinians. Hmmm.....
> 
> Mr.Hadam does not consider the PLO's claim that ALL of Israel belongs
> to the Palestinians as an indication of madness. But, the claim that a
> miniscule part of land which Syria does not even control belongs to
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the crust of the matter. According to the law of the jungle that the
Israeli follow. If I control something it is mine. If I can steal something 
it is mine as long as I have it. Stealling is legitemate as long as the thief
is an Israeli. 

> the Palestinians surely is a sign of the unfortuneate deterioration of
> Yasser's mental state.

By the same argument all Isralis are stark barking mad for considering that
palestine in thiers. Which after all is true. 

> 
> Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Does Syria really give two shits worth
> about Israel or the Palestinians? Or does Syria really only care about
> Syria? Hmmmm....
> 
Does Israel give a shit about anybody in the world as long as they get what
they want whatever the way is. NO no hmmmms are needed for this one.


> Harry.

And before you say it

Antisemite - terrorist - racist - what ever else -------

Kamie
From: osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 27 Dec 92 19:39:41 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <1992Dec27.152024.19584@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:

>>   Jihad is self defense.

What do you call you army?
It is the Israeli defensive army. War is self defense!

>War is peace.
>2*2 is sometimes 3 and sometimes 5.

You have the same logic

>Dan

Osama
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24590 talk.politics.soviet:10192 soc.culture.greek:12008 soc.culture.europe:10979 soc.history:10508 soc.culture.turkish:13753
From: bf3833@pyuxe.uucp (80010-feigenbaum)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 12:34:34 GMT
Summary: Defending oneself against violence


To David Turner:

I am not an Israeli.  However, if you are ever in the New York metropolitan
area, and get an urge to punch an Israeli - please look me up.  I would 
welcome an opportunity to physically defend myself against a self-hating
Jew.

Sincerely,

Ben Feigenbaum
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24414 soc.rights.human:4703
From: gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 31 Dec 1992 03:05:23 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec27.165136.20053@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>However, those terrorists will indeed get their day in court,
>something Nissim Toledano wasn't given before they brutally murdered
>him.  And, if it turns out that any of those temporarily deported are
>not actually Hamas terrorists, they will get to return immediately
>rather than in six months to two years.


Keep saying it.
I am sure if you say it loudly enough and often enough someone
other than a fanatically dedicated pro-Israeli might believe
you.

Basalat Ali Raja.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24486 soc.culture.arabic:6149
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Killing settlers
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:44:54 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast

<C051Mx.AH6@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira):

>>	An unarmed woman plowing a field should not
>>	be fair game, but if her concern about
>>	Hamas attacks on settlers causes her to
>>	carry a weapon in self-defense,
>>	then she's fair game.  Wonderful.

>You do not get the point, they see that woman as an intruder that is
>on stolen property  so if you have an armed woman in your land who
>is engaging in plowing your field, what do you do?

	The logic escapes me.  Killing the armed woman does not
	result in winning any land, so what's the point?  If
	the point is to convince Israel to capitulate, then 
	why murder only *armed* settlers?  Is it to make it appear
	more "Islamic"?
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinian deportees turned back by Lebanese
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:37:32 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <1992Dec21.083406.0102976@locus.com> John Elghani the brilliant 
writes:
>>[JLE] Below is a description of the HUMANITARIAN and PEACFULL acts of the
>>[JLE] HUMANITARIAN and PEACE LOVING state of Israel.  A UPI article:


>FULL-DUPLEX SUPER SARCASTICS.  WE COULD FOOL ALOT WITH OUT SARCASM!!.

You should not get angry, it is bad for your health jle!

Tsiel
-- 


-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
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Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24050 talk.politics.soviet:9968 soc.culture.greek:11846 soc.culture.europe:10775 soc.history:10365 soc.culture.soviet:11531 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:971 soc.culture.croatia:229 soc.culture.bulgaria:2012