HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:02:59 GMT

Followups directed out of soc.motss.

In article <1992Nov12.191913.8438@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

>  It does not deny homosexuals equal rights.

You cannot read.

>  ...and it denies
>  gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.

Simultaneously, it does not deny the same privilege to heterosexuals.

Repeat after me, Gary.  Un-Con-sti-tu-tion-al.

>  It does not permit gay-bashing.

But it sure as hell turns a blind eye to the fact that it promotes an
environment where queerbashing can be considered a respectable
activity.

>  It's too bad that he needed others for his own self-validation. I'm of the
>  school that says "If you don't like me, you don't have to be around me."
>  I never look to others for my self-worth.

Frankly, that's exactly what I would expect to hear from a straight
white male like yourself.*  You have never in your life been subjected
to societal abuse that queers, women, and people of color put up with
on an hourly basis.  How, then, can you possibly feel qualified to
comment on it?

* (Attn: the phrase "like yourself" is the operative phrase here.  I
know many straight white men who are sympathetic to discrimination, so
hence this paragraph thus does not apply to them.  I mean to address
only the mindset which this society nurtures in straights, whites, and
men, which Strand seems hell-bent on embracing.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: extremism
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:43:31 GMT
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division

In article <1jPjSV#1Vc5jZ3p14dq7XTnX2BBYzW8=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:

>I'm not calling for gays to be silent, nor do I want any more of them to die.
>I'm arguing against support for laws which, in the name of "gay rights",
>infringe on other peoples' freedoms to make their own choices without
>government interference.

Then I suggest you work on repealing existing civil rights laws rather
than focusing only on the ones which have lower chances of passing.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: mmaster@parnasus.dell.com (Michael Masterson)
Subject: Re: Election Day JITTERS
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:09:58 GMT

nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu (Nathan J. Mehl) writes:

>>Folks:
>>	Bill has just been declared President-elect of the United States
>>by CNN.  Interestingly enough CNN also reported that 3% of the people
>>voting and participating in the exit polls identified themselves as
>>Gay/Lesbian.  Of those people 71% voted for Clinton (is this any
>>surprise?) and 12% voted for Bush.

>Twelve percent?!!!!!  Who the hell ARE these idiots?

"A gay republican makes about as much sense as a jewish nazi"

					-Wynn Wagner III
-- 
Operated by professionals, do not try at home, see your dealer for details.
Your mileage may vary. Call before digging. Best if eaten by date on package.
Apply only to affected area. Batteries not included. Member FDIC.
Michael Masterson                                   mmaster@parnasus.dell.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Can Colorado discriminate against straights?
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:53:11 GMT

In article <Nov11.195024.69810@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> doug@crevasse.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Doug Cripe) writes:

The exact same bigoted trash he posted on Monday in 
article <Nov09.211748.72195@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>.
Is there some reason that you feel the need to post it
twice?
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: extremism
Date: 09 Nov 92 21:22:51 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1jNYlS#3FvHQ81HrG5G9wr6pm9FlqDL=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>In <farenebt.720996705@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> Bri Farenell ("Droopy" wrote:
>> Do extremists hurt the credibility of the gay rights movement?
>
>Hell, yes.  I don't care whether you fuck men, women, sheep, or chopped liver.  
>As long as you leave me to live my life the way I want to, I'll do likewise
>for you.

     Thank you for your support.


>The gay rights extremists don't seem to want to stop there, though.  First,
>they seem to want to secure legal privileges for gays that I don't have ---
>like the "right" to be employed by people who dislike my sexual preference.

     A law that declared discrimination based on sexual orientation
to be illegal would cut both ways - it would allow you, as a heterosexual
male (presumably) to be employed at a workplace that previously had
refused to hire heterosexuals.  No proposed law that I am aware of has
been worded in such a way as to protect gays but not straights.


>Second, they want to force me to subsidize gay behavior by paying the medical
>expenses of AIDS victims through taxes extorted from me.

     AIDS is a public health issue, and not strictly a gay one.  The
government should be in the business of doing something about it - 
otherwise we'll end up with an even worse epidemic on our hands.
     Do you also believe that the government shouldn't be involved in
cancer research, since you don't (presumably) have cancer?  Should the
government only research diseases that affect you personally?


>That isn't right.  You can live the way you want, but pay your own freight.

     I pay my fair share in taxes every year.


>Thus, gay *people* are fine by me and I count many of them as friends.  But,
>increasingly, I have to  consider gay *activism* a threat to my freedom.

     Do your gay friends know your opinions on these subjects?


>(You watch.  Someone will call me a homophobe for saying that.)

     It's not clear to me that you are a homophobe.  It seems, though,
that you haven't thought these issues through very clearly - you
appear to be buying into the propaganda of the far right.

					-Phil
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell ("Droopy"))
Subject: Re: A Gay Republican Voice 
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:40:03 GMT

wdechent@usenet.umr.edu (William L. Dechent) writes:

>   >"A gay Republican makes as much sense as a Jewish Nazi"

>Hmmm...  A Jewish Nazi doesn't make sense, but a Jew could be a member of
>a National Socialist party that didn't include discrimination as a plank
>in the party platform.

>Gay Republican is not an oxy-moron.  Do you think the GOP belongs to the
>far right?  I don't.  Granted, I was a Clinton Republican this time 
>around.  I believe the GOP will change for the better; one of my
>premises is that true Conservatism does not discriminate.  True Conservatism
>will be around in the future when people look back on today and ask
>"How come they thought homosexuals were different?  All that matters
>is bringing people together and maintaining a good economy!"

I think that mainstream conservatism is not discriminatory, for the
most part. I think that people like William Buckley, Jack Kemp,
and others are decent people who dont practice hate and holier
than thou condemnation. It's the religious right fanatics that
are the idiots trying to impose their morality on everyone. 
Sadly, the GOP sold out to the religious right this year and
paid the price. Paul Tsongas speculates that a new third party
will be forming and they will be economic moderates or conservatives
but social liberals. I would join that party. I hope it forms
soon!
============================================================================
BRI FARENELL			    "If you choose not to decide, you still have
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU        made a choice."  --RUSH ("Free Will)
CLARKSON '95			 	   
A politically incorrect, pro-life, liberal, card-carrying member of the ACLU.
===========================================================================


Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: citer@jetson.uh.edu (Sanders, Raymond L.)
Subject: Re: Anti-Gay Reggae song on NYC radio
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:50:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.212644.7659@athena.mit.edu>, grisha@athena.mit.edu (Grigory Golberg) writes...
>>	``The black community understands all to well what it's like to
>>suffer discrimination and violence, so a black-owned station should be
>>more sensitive,'' said Suggs, who is black.
> 
>Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
Ray Sanders (citer@jetson.uh.edu)
Some of the most blatant prejudice and discrimination I have seen has been
lighter skin vs darker skin persons of the same race.
From: nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:36:46 GMT
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC

In article <Bx7yvE.52I@access.digex.com> bruceg@access.digex.com (Bruce Garrett) writes:
>  nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) writes:
>
> > The rest of your argument is completely empty unless you can deal with
> > the following points:
>
>        Since Michael, by my reading of him, seems in fact to be a Libertarian
>I doubt your questions are as big a challenge as you may have thought.  In the
>meantime I have a few wee questions of my own...
>
> > Are societies obligated to sanction all forms of non-coercive behavior
> > between citizens?
>
>        Can a society restrict any form of consentual behavior between it's
>citizens for any reason it chooses, regardless of whether or not the acts in
>question actually cause harm...and endure?

What doe endurance have to do with anything?  Anyway, yeah, I guess they do.
We've had laws against prostitution, incest, polygamy, statutory rape, etc,
for some time.  
>
> > Why shouldn't young people be allowed to have sex with whomever they wish?
>
>        On what grounds should sexual activity be regulated by force of law?

I guess this is and will continue to be a negotiated issue within our 
culture, not one easily settled by absolutes.

>
> > The point is, you've chosen to engage in a practice/lifestyle that a large
> > portion of the population do not wish to see sanctioned or legitimized into
> > the public realm.
>
>        The point is, you appear to have chosen to engage in a practice that
>brings pain and suffering into the lives of tens of thousands of decent,
>honorable, innocent people for no good reason: which is promoting the
>isolation of a small but legitimate segment of the human population from
>society based on nothing but your own personal dislike for the way they have
>sex.

Sorry about the pain and suffering.  Some of this always accompanies a
choice of a lifestyle which most people consider to be abnormal and
counterproductive to the maintenance of their cultural values.
>

>        You don't like homosexuality...fine.  Don't have sex with another guy. 
>Otherwise, get the hell off our case.
>
You don't like it when people speak up against your political agenda, do you?
Get used to it, because the louder you speak, the louder your opponents will
become.

> > ...I doubt if you will have any success by improperly casting people as
> > bigots.
>
>        Not to mention the chances of success by actually arguing with one...
> 

>You know, it's interesting.  You guys have chosen to adopt name calling
as a political weapon.  Fine.  You're preaching to the congregation and 
probably not winning over any supporters with that approach.  You're
definitely not going to silence anyone with it either.

Roger 
Shouse 
>
From: hoyerr@ucs.orst.edu (Richard Hoyer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Can Colorado discriminate against straights?
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:18:56 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU

In article <1992Nov10.205508.19199@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.132745.44592@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> rminor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>A question of clarification:  Does the Colorado vote mean that I can
>>discriminate against people who are straight?  
>
>No.  The amendment specifies, and I quote, "NO PROTECTED
>STATUS BASED ON HOMOSEXUAL, LESBIAN OR BISEXUAL ORIENTATION."
>--
>           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado
>
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu




ACK!!!!!!  This means....  THIS MEANS THAT HETEROSEXUALS HAVE SPECIAL RIGHTS
IN COLORADO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   BOYCOTT
COLORADO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


-Rich
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: John Greco is an asshole(was: I don't like homos)
Date: 13 Nov 92 05:48:38 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, greco@elec.uq.oz.au (John Greco) says:

>Statement of Fact.
>
>   I don't like homos
>
>The End
>

Statement of Fact.

   John Greco is an asshole

The End.

-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist  //   No God, Know Peace   /\     * 
*                    Kelley L. Miller  //  Know God, No Peace    /P \    *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu  //                        /____\   *
*****************  James Trafficant for US Senate, 1998  *****************
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: I don't like homos
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:50:38 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <greco.721630569@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> greco@elec.uq.oz.au (John Greco) writes:
>Statement of Fact.
>
>   I don't like homos
>
>The End

    You're a jerk.  Go away.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Letter from OCA post-election: real or hoax?
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:10:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.011456.16201@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> ric@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Graffiti 404-972-4999) writes:

>Based on the generalized advice in the last paragraph instead of an
>acctual address or phone number, I feel this may be a hoax letter sent
>out to look as if it came from the OCA, in order to further escalate
>the fight... but with these folks, you never know. How stupid is stupid?

That's what I suspect too, and I think it escalates this war to
frightening and dangerous levels.  I do not look forward to waking up
tomorrow morning and discovering that a Claymerish character has
elected to distribute baby-rape pamphlets under the name of GLAAD.

If this can't be won on the basis that the OCA's arguments are clearly
mosquito shit, then perhaps we can't win in Oregon.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: rminor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:22:22 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

How long must we listen to people argue about the Bible's view of
homosexuality on the basis of ignorance of the material.  Those who
seem to "take the Bible seriously" don't take it seriously enough to
study what it actually says.  They quote the King James version from
centuries after the Bible was written and they interpret the text in
terms of the interpretations that modern twentieth-century American
preachers do.  Serious students of the Bible should prove their
seriousness about finding out what it says.  No one should discuss the
matter without reading the most thorough study of the texts.  Then give
your opinons.  Unless one has read John Boswell, CHRISTIANITY, SOCIAL
TOLERANCE, AND HOMOSEXUALITY (University of Chicago Press), one has
not done his or her homework on the subject.  Especially to be read is
his chapter on "The Scriptures" and the Appendix on "The Lexicography
of Paul."  This is not light reading, but if people are really
serious, they will spend the time reading it before they continue to
shoot off  their mouths.  As a professor of religious studies, I
challenge everyone to do so.  You don't have to agree, but at least
you'll know what you're talking about.  It's time to get the facts.
The Bible is alot better than its twentieth-century American
interpreters who are trying to push Americanism on the Book.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:6865 soc.motss:46454
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Larry Kramer's new book
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:47:46 GMT
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Originator: swc@swcdev


Larry Kramer has a new PLAY out.  It's called 'The Destiny of Me', and is
currently playing Off Broadway at the Lucille Lortel Theatre on Christopher
Street.  The play is staring Jonathan Hadary (As Is, Gypsy etc) and is
directed by Marshal Mason (As Is, and anything by Lanford Wilson).

I'll be seeing the play next week; I'll let you know how it is.

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: extremism
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:06:41 GMT

In article <1jNYlS#3FvHQ81HrG5G9wr6pm9FlqDL=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>In <farenebt.720996705@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> Bri Farenell ("Droopy" wrote:
>> Do extremists hurt the credibility of the gay rights movement?
>
>Hell, yes.  I don't care whether you fuck men, women, sheep, or chopped liver.  
>As long as you leave me to live my life the way I want to, I'll do likewise
>for you.

Good, Private lives should reamain the concerns of the people affected.

>
>The gay rights extremists don't seem to want to stop there, though.  First,
>they seem to want to secure legal privileges for gays that I don't have ---
>like the "right" to be employed by people who dislike my sexual preference.
>Second, they want to force me to subsidize gay behavior by paying the medical
>expenses of AIDS victims through taxes extorted from me.

Actually, if we ever get a law passed that would add 'sexual orintation'
into the equal opotunity act (sp), then NOBODY could be fired for their
sexual orientation.  This meens not only that people in the LGB community
couldn't be fired because they are homosexual, but that you can't be
fired because you are straight (assumed from the tone of your post).

Secondly, the AIDS crises is NOT a LGB only problem. In fact the 
larges increases in AIDS and HIV+ cases are happening in the 
heterosexual community.  Problebly as a result of people thinking
that AIDS is a LGB only problem.  *Suprise* it is EVERYBODYS 
PROBLEM.

>Thus, gay *people* are fine by me and I count many of them as friends.  But,
>increasingly, I have to  consider gay *activism* a threat to my freedom.
>
>(You watch.  Someone will call me a homophobe for saying that.)

No, I am not going to call you a homophobe for stating your
opinion.  I am just going to assume that you are misguided
and that you need to learn of what you speak, before you open
your mouth.

- Kraig



Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell ("Droopy"))
Subject: Re: extremism
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:44:54 GMT

esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:

>In <farenebt.720996705@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> Bri Farenell ("Droopy" wrote:
>> Do extremists hurt the credibility of the gay rights movement?

>Hell, yes.  I don't care whether you fuck men, women, sheep, or chopped liver.  
>As long as you leave me to live my life the way I want to, I'll do likewise
>for you.

>The gay rights extremists don't seem to want to stop there, though.  First,
>they seem to want to secure legal privileges for gays that I don't have ---
>like the "right" to be employed by people who dislike my sexual preference.
>Second, they want to force me to subsidize gay behavior by paying the medical
>expenses of AIDS victims through taxes extorted from me.

ACtually, I think the mainstream is more interested in seeing that gays
arent FIRED by people who dislike their sexual orientation; arent booted
out of their apartment by people who dislike their sexual orientation;
dont get their heads bashed in by people who dislike their sexual orientation.

>Thus, gay *people* are fine by me and I count many of them as friends.  But,
>increasingly, I have to  consider gay *activism* a threat to my freedom.

Silence=death? Many gays feel that if they arent active, it's a threat
to their lives. Deal with it. Gay activism is no threat to your freedom
but if they arent active, it's definitely a threat to theirs.

>(You watch.  Someone will call me a homophobe for saying that.)

I think misguided will do.
============================================================================
BRI FARENELL			HOBBES: Why do we always play war and not peace?
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU     CALVIN: Too few role models.
CLARKSON '95			
A politically incorrect, pro-life, liberal, card-carrying member of the ACLU.
===========================================================================
"We are not descended from fearful men... not from men who feared to write,
to speak, to associate and to defend causes which were, for the time, 
unpopular."		----Edward R Murrow
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightm
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

RS>In article <1992Oct28.200409.2473@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <GERRY.92Oct28123241@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu
>(Gerry Roston) writes:
>
>>As to my knowledge of homosexuals, I shared an apartment with one for
........
>He must have been politically inert to have put up with some
>bozo who talks in terms of lifestyles.......
>>differs from mine, but so what?  That's his business.  I have few
>>misconceptions about gays.......
THEN...
**  >One misconception you clearly *do* have is that this wildly
>cross-posted claptrap is of any interest in soc.motss.  We
>are really not interested in the views of ignorant straight
>boyz.  Keep it outta *here*, please.

RS>I love this.  There can be no dissent.  Opposing views cannot be
RS>tolerated.  There is only one acceptable view on homosexuality.
RS>Fall in line or get "outta here".

RS>Unbelievable.

RS>R. Shouse
RS>U of Chicago

I fully agree with RS.  How can people be educated/discuss views openly
and honestly.  That attitude help perpetuate the bariers bettween
gays and straights, lesbians and gays ect...
Who are you (**) to decide that no one was interested.  Have you not seen 
the dialogue.  Obviously YOU are wrong.  Anti-het is equally as wrong
as anti-gay!
Wake up!
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Nuclear war has broken out....story at 11......
                                              
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality