From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Subject: Timor: Bishop Belo: Xanana was tortured
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: PACH
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:03:11 GMT

/** reg.easttimor: 345.0 **/
** Topic: Belo's Publico interview in full **
** Written  7:00 am  Dec  8, 1992 by gn:tapol in cdp:reg.easttimor **
BISHOP BELO REPUDIATES SJAFEI'S LIES
 
Source: Publico, a leading Portuguese daily
Date: 4 December 1992
Translated from the Portuguese
 
                 --------------------------
 
"I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO MAKE XANANA CHANGE SO FAST"
An interview of Bishop Belo by Publico, 4 December 1992
 
 
[Intro] The Bishop of Dili, Ximenes Belo, believes that if a
prisoner makes a statement such as that made by Xanana Gusmoa,
this means that he has been subjected to torture.
 
Bishop Belo consented to a request from Publico to be
interviewed by phone yesterday, the first interview he has
given since Xanana Gusmao was arrested.
 
Cautious as always, he said, "we here are living in a
different world". Even so, he reiterated his belief in the
need for a referendum, he repudiated what the Indonesian
military said, and said that the arrest of any individual,
even if he is the leader, does not mean the surrender of the
entire people.
 
                    ---------------------
 
Publico: Has there been a lot of discussion about the arrest
of Xanana Gusmao?
Belo: Not much. People were expecting this to happen, because
there was very little space left for him to move. With each
passing day, it became more likely.
 
Publico: Did you know that he often left the bush and visited
Dili?
Belo: Yes, I know that he came here last year at the time of
the visit of the Expresso journalist, Mario Robalo. Since then, I
haven't heard about any visits.
 
Publico: About the latest statement of Xanana Gusmao: Do you
think that he was telling the truth, or lying, or was it
because he had been tortured?
Belo: It happened so fast. If he was not telling the truth,
he was not speaking like a genuine leader. I don't know what
could have happened to make him change so fast.
 
Publico: Do you believe that Xanana has switched to being in
favour of Indonesia?
Belo: I don't know for certain what happened but for the past
seventeen years, if any prisoner spoke in the way that Xanana
has spoken, it happened as a result of torture.
 
Publico: It has been reported by Reuters that General Syafei
has offered amnesty to those guerrillas who agree to surrender
and give up their arms in seven churches and that you will
issue a Christmas Pastoral Letter calling on them to do this. 
Can you confirm this?
Belo: No, I can't confirm that. It's quite false. This was
cooked up by the military so that people would believe it.
There is nothing whatever about any church being specified for
this. I have not yet taken any decision on whether to issue a
Christmas Pastoral Letter. It's all lies. We pastors have not
taken any decisions on the matter. These are all lies. It's
all military propaganda.
 
[To appreciate the significance of this denial, we reproduce
here the report as carried in 'Jawa Pos' of 3 December: 
 
"In line with the persuasive approach, the supreme head of the
Catholic Church, Bishop Belo, has prepared an appeal, in the
form of a Pastoral Letter. "This letter will be issued in two
weeks time, in the form of a Christmas Message," Belo told
Jawa Pos at his residence yesterday. "Amnesty is the best way
for those still in the forests to come down," he said. The
following churches are being made ready for guerrilla remnants
to surrender: the parish churches of Bobonaro, Maubisse,
Soibada, Manatuto, Uatolari, Viqueque, Becora, the parish
church of Baucau, and the parish church of Aileu."]
 
Publico: So you wont be making any appeal to the guerrillas?
Belo: What should I appeal to the guerrillas about? This is a
question of conscience for each individual, isn't it? To call
on people to surrender and then kill them all. How could the
church take responsibility for that? Each person is
responsible for their own survival.
 
Publico: So you don't want to do that?
Belo: I could only do that after hearing the conditions and
the guarantees and after consulting with the Vatican. I can't
do more or less than that.
 
Publico: What guarantees would you insist on?
Belo: That anyone who surrenders will not be tortured, will
not be killed, will not disappear, as happened in 1979 and
1980 when many Fretilin leaders disappeared.
 
Publico: Do you believe that the Indonesian army is capable of
complying with the guarantees that they give?
Belo: First of all, I have to be given the guarantees, then I
will see.
 
Publico: Do you think that with the arrest of Xanana Gusmao
and the latest statement he has made, the resistance will die?
Belo: I can't say such a thing because Xanana is not the
entire people. Xanana is only one inhabitant of East Timor.
 
Publico: Do you think that the East Timorese people will
continue to resist Indonesia?
Belo: You are speaking in Portugal, where you are living in a
democratic climate. We are living in a different world. When
one speaks about the people you must be very careful (the rest
unintelligible to Publico).
 
Publico: It has been said that the International Red Cross
will be allowed to visit Xanana next week. Would you like
to accompany the Red Cross when it makes this visit?
Belo: I am very busy here in Dili. Xanana is now in Bali, so
how can I do that?
 
Publico: Wouldn't you like to visit him to know how he is at
present?
Belo: I must cope with my duties here, and only after that
will I consider such a thing. With Christmas drawing near, I
can't think about that.
 
Publico: How does it feel at the moment to be living in Dili?
Belo: Personally, I feel fine, free before God and before the
people.
 
Publico: Have you abandoned your proposal for a referendum,
which you made to the Secretary-General of the United Nations?
Belo: For me, that is the best solution. Whatever anyone says,
for me that's the best solution.
 
Publico: Have you made your opinion known to the Vatican?
Belo: Yes, Sir.
 
Publico: When was the last time that you sent any
communication about this question?
Belo: Several months ago.
 
Publico: Have you had any thoughts about what you will say in
your Christmas Message?
Belo: The Christmas Message is almost always the same: receive
Christ, behave yourself, be conciliatory, the East Timorese
people should be united and should forgive each other, That's
what my message is.
 
Publico: Up to the present, your messages have not had much
effect....
Belo: Not yet....
 
Publico: Do you think that it is possible to bring about
reconciliation between everyone?
Belo: I have my doubts. The bad thing for Timorese is the
division between them, in the past, in the present, and I
think also in the future.
 
Publico: Aren't you thinking of visiting Portugal shortly?
Belo: To go there now would be a waste of time. It isn't
necessary.
 
Publico: Don't you want to be in Fatima on the next 13 May?
Belo: On a previous occasion in 1990, several bishops did not
want to see me there. My Fatima is here in Timor.
** End of text from cdp:reg.easttimor **