Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE POLLS 6%
From: f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:24:56 MST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67700241

In article <Bu079x.I34@encore.com>, rcollins@encore.com (Roger Collins) writes:
> f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>>Incidentally, I heard Marrou on a radio talk show -- 60 minutes, call-in
>>format. Damn, why hasn't anyone labeled him "Slick Andre" yet?  He's got
>>all the answers, canned and down pat (he said he'd have left the survivors
>>of Hurricane Andrew to fend for themselves without federal intervention),
>>and generally impressed me as a good candidate for hosting his own radio
>>talk show.  Not for President of the U.S.
> 
> I didn't hear the talk show, but am sure Marrou didn't suggest the
> Hurricane victims "fend for themselves."  Rather, private charity
> organizations and the individuals that support them should provide
> relief.

Yes, that's what he suggested.  As for a federal role in disaster relief,
he basically said that it was a problem local to Florida, that people in
California and Minnesota shouldn't have to subsidize a local problem with
their tax dollars.  That struck me as a callous thing to say.  Sounds good
to libertarian idealists, perhaps.

> Where the hell do you think the relief came from, anyway?  I can't
> believe how many otherwise intelligent people think the government
> "creates" money to give to good causes.  The government takes the money
> from you and me (more from our children, now) and distributes it to the
> cause (after keeping a huge cut in reduced productivity from lack of
> competition and a bigger cut for causes you don't support).

Ah yes, taxation has been going on for almost a century now.  The LP's
main attraction in their platform is the call for abolishment of taxation.
It doesn't ring true to me.  The math behind it has exactly as much
support as the math for supply-side economics.  The LP (and Marrou)
is clearly using it as a slogan to attract disaffected voters: i.e.,
"read my lips, no more taxes."  Zero intellectual content, and no
guarantees the promise would be carried out.

I can't believe how many otherwise intelligent people believe that 
"getting government off our backs" via eliminating income tax is a
serious response to reforming government financing.  It's harder than
that, and I'm hoping Marrou knows it.  He's slick enough.

One of your facts is correct; I can't pick and choose what government
programs I have to support. Too bad; the U.S. has a pluralistic goverment,
not a cafeteria as the LP would like you to believe.  There will always
be trade-offs....I'd like less military base spending, he wants more, the
other guy wants to expand welfare, his friend wants to cut it, etc.

There is categorically NO consensus among Americans on what role the
federal government should play in the country.  The Dems and Reps think
it should be a lot, the Libs think it should be little.  BOTH sides
resort to emotional arguments to bolster their case.  Comparing our
record with those of other industrialized countries (all of whom offer
some form of income tax), I think the intellectual argument favors the
Dems and Reps; ie, an income tax is necessary.

> I was *in* Hurricane Andrew and saw what relief government provided and
> what relief private charities provided.  Private charities outdid the
> government hands down.  I gave money to Red Cross.  What did you do?
> You think you shouldn't have to think about where your money goes,
> right?  Just give it to the government and they will take care of
> everyone.

Here is what I understand the complaints about poor govt relief were:
there was too LITTLE provided, because Bush was tardy in sending it out.
It wasn't that *government* failed Florida, it was George Bush and Gov.
Chiles failing Florida for not getting the govt into high gear.

I can't disagree that private charities are doing their utmost to take
care of the situation.  I do disagree that that is all that is required.
There are still people living outside because the tent cities haven't
been set up yet, a full week after the storm.  $14 billion worth of
damage, unfortunately, cannot be rebuilt through private donations.
There's only one other source of aid: public funds.  Earmark part of
the federal budget for disaster relief, and I won't complain.

The federal government, despite its admitted inefficiencies, has the
capability and the backing to alleviate the suffering.  Bush was able
to send 500,000 troops into Saudi Arabia to do what was necessary for
the country.  He SHOULD have been able to do what is necessary for
Florida's people, almost as rapidly as the SA mobilization.  I'd rather
my tax dollars go to funding Florida's rebuilding than to Saddam's re-
arming.

> What do you do when the government doesn't do a good
> job?  Bitch and moan.  What did the government do?  They condemned some
> homes and forced the residents to stay in "tent city."

But what other solution would you suggest for hundreds of thousands of
homeless people?  It's tough.  The JCs and Red Cross and other charities
can do their best work, but they can't do it all.  Some fed assistance
will have to occur; indeed, in the last 20 years most every natural 
disaster has been shortly followed by a governor's request for federal 
aid, and those requests are routinely granted, and no one other than
an LP true-believer finds any fault with the process.

I haven't heard anyone in the afflicted areas complaining that the feds
are doing too much, we should do it ourselves.  They accept help anywhere
they can find it: FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army.

>  Bush promised
> to rebuild Homestead Air Force Base, completely demolished from Andrew.
> Close down some fully functioning bases instead.  Could be a strategic
> decision, but I doubt it.  Sounds more like pork to me.  Like the
> billion dollars Bush promised in Farm subsidies, yesterday.

Here I agree with you.  I only hope there are enough of us to pressure
Bush to not go ahead with this, however I suspect there aren't.

>>Sadly, the LP will never gain more than a core of true-believers if they
>>go on this path.
> 
> Sadly, indeed.  And, sadly, you will probably continue to vote for
> people that think that government knows best how to spend your and your
> children's money.

My opinion is that if the LP were running the government, things like
the hurricane would be even worse than they have been.  Even less help
would come to the stricken area, on the grounds of "no national funds
to alleviate private problems."  And Marrou would be bounced out of
Florida in the next election by a 10-to-1 margin.

Thanks for the reply....
-- 
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how do you spell relief?"
f67700241@ccit.arizona.edu               Dan: "R-O-L-A-I-D-S-E."
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