HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: noah@cad.gatech.edu (Noah White)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Foghorn..remember that server?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:27:12 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu


   I was wondering if the Foghorn server code was still floating around? 
If so where? It was my favorite site last year and I was sad to see it go.

				-Noah
From: victorc@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Victor P. Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Hints for Dogfighting
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:03:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: matt.1jusn7INNke9
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Hi all:
	I may not be the best dogfighter, but I have played long enough
to give the newbies a hint or to about dogfighting.

	1. Conserve you fuel. Most beginners was all of their fuel at once
and then becomes a sitting duck without fuel.

	2. Fly under variable speed when dogfighting. It is hard to predict
where your opponent would be when he is changing his speed constantly.

	3. Learn to use phazers. Practice how to phazer lock and when you
can nail cloakers w/ phazers most of the time, then try to use both toprs 
and phazers at the same time during dogfights.

	4. Don't worry about rank just yet. When you become fairly well at
taking planets, high ranks will be easy to achieve.

	5. Read and write messages. Ask other players when you have questions.
If a cocky player doesn't tell you anything, then ask someone else. Most
netrek players are friendly, so don't hesitate to ask. To become a better
player, you must have the heart to learn.

	If anyone have any additional hints or if you feel that I make an
error or so, please let me know... (post it, don't mail it to me)

		C-YA

	Victor C. / WingCommander, Surfer Dude!

e-mail : victorc@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

ps. how many INL teams do we have out there????? Hope we have fun this season!
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:51:28 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pop Timer
	<1k55hg$2ov@agate.berkeley.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 27-Jan-93 Re: Pop Timer Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (845)

> How do you mean?  It would be possible to write an X application that
> looks at the icons along with their last position, figures out their
> speed and direction, and draws a dot on the screen in the appropriate
> place.  None of this would touch the client or the information from
> the server; it would be totally independent.  Should it be allowed?
> I sure think not.

	How about independant meaning -- gaining information from the server or
client.  Seems simple enough to me.  The pop timer does neither.  I
would love to see you run a cloaker detecter that doesn't run on the
same machine.  It's easy to do so with a pop-clock.  Am I clearer?

ZZnew guy
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE !!
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:39:41 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: flounder.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1jq28oINN9m8@west.West.Sun.COM> pizzo@Sun.COM (David Pizzo - EDA (IC) District SE) writes:
>I want Netrek and need source code that will compile on a Sun4. I have been
>
>Trying to get it for months. Can someone help?? I've played Netrek once and
>
>loved it, but can't get it on my workstation as of yet.
>
If you want a client there are many already compiled binaries at ftp sites.
Couple good ones to look at are pittslug.sug.org and ocf.berkeley.edu. You can
just grab the binary for your sun and not worry about making a client. Many
servers have some kind of binary verification that checks to make sure that
the client being used is not a borg. The reserved.c style is hard to get
and RSA style is easy but if there is already a client out there then why
have two?

Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God of Guzzler
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: Escorting Tips Wanted
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:12:24 GMT

In article <DBA.93Jan20153607@tamu.edu> dbarnett@tamu.edu (David Barnett) writes:
>I got sneered at on bronco yesterday, and I'm wondering how I might
>have done better.  We were Roms, and had quickly pushed the Klis back
...
>A Rom named Turkey-something (Red Shirt in disguise?  his login was
>he-something) had zeroed Sco and dashed over to Lyr to pick up.  I
>reached Sco as he picked up and headed back.  An ogger was after him,
>while ryche and someone else came in at Kli and started charging
>toward Sco.  I was in a CA, the carrier was in a SC, and the ogger was
>in a DD, I think.

Yeah, I play turkey (which is not to say that turkey = Red Shirt; their
playing styles and attitudes are different, e.g. turkey kills his own
base whenever possible).  I don't remember that play.  Was that the
game I quit out of after deciding that it was effectively 15 on 1,
since my team comprised me and 7 traitors who never went anywhere near
the few remaining Klingon planets and "helpfully" killed oggers at
places like Andromeda every time I was going in to drop on Pollux?

From your description it sounds like you were thinking about the right
issues and making a reasonably smart play, especially if you thought
you'd be able to pull it off.  Another good idea might have been to
cloak and head for Kli or Pol as a decoy (with options to bomb or og).

  -- turkey
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Slightly tweaked trekhopd up
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:13:27 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I threw working versions of "main.c" for bronco, hadley, and berkeley clients
into the archive.  The current client stuff differs from older client stuff
in that:

    (1) Looks for .trekgwrc in $HOME first instead of current dir
    (2) Simple security measure allows the client to be restricted to certain
	subdomains.  trekhopd clients can pose a security risk, so it's nice
	to be able to prevent them from growing legs and walking.
    (3) If you don't specify "-H", it works like a normal client.  I added
	this so that I could use the same client to play on the gateway
	machine when the internal machines crash.
    (4) Now prints two messages from socket.c, first when calling trekhopd,
	second after it has received the reply (useful so you can tell the
	difference between a slow server and a stalled trekhopd process).

I don't think the trekhopd code itself has changed.

Incidentally, it was nice to see that the trekhopd source was part of the
Berkeley/Mehlhaff client.

charon.amdahl.com:pub/netrek/thd1.41.tar.Z

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: delbaeth@cqs.washington.edu (Robert Christ)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Shorter games?
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:10:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: buck.cqs.washington.edu

Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>1) Two hours if too long for one game of netrek.  Keeping up that level
>of intensity for that long is too tiring.
>2) Shorter games increase the chance of an upset.

>having even games.  Isn't the better team SUPPOSED to win?  Isn't the
>team that wins the championship supposed to be the best team?  If not,
>then what is the point of all of the planned even scheduals and
>play-offs and all?  In short, this arguement seems like a much better
>point AGAINST a shorter game.  If you really want random results, why
>not start the game off in overtime.  That will make it a lot shorter too.

>ZZnew guy

Point 2 is the NCAA BB tournament excuse.  The tournament rarely
(Duke being the exception) picks the best team in the country but
it extracts huge ratings because it is so exciting.  Now, since netrek
isn't really a spectator sport the same logic might not apply.  If
you asked NCAA college teams if they would like a tournament that 
always chose the best in the nation what would be the response?
The best team might go for it but the rest of the field might want
a chance at glory..
  rob


(Note:  I like 2 hour games.  I don't really care if we win as long as
we didn't lose cause we sucked it up)
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:22:41 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <105845@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:
>A pop clock is a modified version of xclock as far a I can tell.  I haven't
>ever used a pop clock - instead, I found that xclock suits my purpose well.
>I would assume that someone will make the pop clock source available via
>FTP, soon.

Gimme a break.

main()
{
    char foo[8];

    gets(foo);		/* hit return on a pop to start the clock */

    while (1) {
	sleep (40);
	printf("%c", 7);
    }
}

This could potentially get out of whack, since sleep() doesn't guarantee to
sleep for EXACTLY 40 seconds.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jim McCoy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:22:06 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas - Austin
Distribution: rec
Reply-To: mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jim McCoy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tramp.cc.utexas.edu
Originator: mccoy@tramp.cc.utexas.edu


In article <JWEST.93Jan22122227@weevil.frc.ri.cmu.edu>, jwest@weevil.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Jay West) writes:
> [regarding DDs]
> 
> So what can be done about DD's?  I like ZZ's idea of reducing max
> armies DD's can carry to 2 and give it warp 11.  This would turn it
> into a fast penetrator.  It might also become a good ogger (perhaps
> too good?).

Why drop the army limit?  This seems to make it a heavy scout (or perhaps
you could equal it out by eliminating the scout's ability to carry armies
:) and the extra point of warp is not really worth the loss of the ability
to take any planet on a single trip.

If you want to tweak the DD without making major mods like this, might I
suggest looking into another area:  accel/decel/turning.  The DD has good
numbers here (I think it is the best at decel), but you could probably put
it on equal footing with other ships by giving it a little better
performance in each of these areas.  IMHO, it is the accel/decel that gives
the DD an advantage in certain situations; by using rapid acceleration and
deceleration a DD can sometimes slip around another ship and get into a
position where it gets to determine the range of combat.  This is a
powerful tool that no one seems to have mentioned much in these ongoing
debates.  

jim


-- 
Jim McCoy                |  PGP 2.0 Key md5 hash:
mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  61323c49024cb089337c78a05aafe8c6
j-mccoy@nwu.edu          |  finger mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu for public key


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: colles@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Grey Knight (Shawn Collenburg))
Subject: Re: Paradise, tonight, 8 + players
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:56:37 GMT

sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:

>Assault Ship;

>    torpdamage = 25 (was 30)
>    phaserdamage = 65 (was 80)
>    maxshield = 95 (was 80)
>    maxdamage = 240 (was 200)


>	Ok, there you go.
>		The address is :  paradise.declab.usu.edu -p 2592
>			-Lynx

If I played, I'd use the name PlAnEtScUm, esp. w/ the reduced weapons.

Grey Knight
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 1993 03:05:53 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <C1Fw5z.1q7.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
)> )Please remove the pause feature, then.  A pause inserts a random, 
)> )disturbing inhomogeneity (is that a word?) into the flow of the game.
)> )Especially when people use it for conveniences like going to the
)> )bathroom.
)
)> Oh, God forbid that anyone actually have to go to the bathroom some
)> time in a 2.5 hour period.  If you think netrek is more important
)> than going to the bathroom you need some perspective.
)
)No...I like the pause feature, but please make it stop taking game time.   
)And write a guideline for pause etiquette.  In my opinion, when subs are  
)available it is inappropriate to ask for a pause so someone on your team  
)can go to the bathroom.  Pauses in the INL often are unneeded, and only  
)suck a few minutes out of the otherwise, enjoyable game.  

I believe that in the latest release of the server (3.1) pauses do
not use game time.  If I'm wrong, let me know and we'll get it fixed.

)> )Shorter game?  Why?
)> 
)> Because--get ready for a bulletin here--some people think the games
)> last too long.  They are grueling and they don't really give an underdog
)> a chance for an upset.
)
)I think decreasing game length furthur will put additional emphasis on  
)initial-bombing and less on true-netrek talent.  Get more than 8 people to  
)play on your team if you think the games are too long, and sub  
)accordingly.

First of all, subbing is not easy under the current setup (for one thing,
we rarely have more than 8 terminals, so we can't have someone get on
the queue waiting for someone else to leave).  And I am of the opinion
that giving underdogs a better chance will make the INL more interesting.
You don't want to see Duke win all the time, do you?
 -Tom
From: steffen@fb3-s7.math.TU-Berlin.DE (Matthias Steffen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: European INL team
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:30:30
Organization: FB3, TU-Berlin, Germany.
NNTP-Posting-Host: fb3-s1.math.tu-berlin.de
In-reply-to: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk's message of 24 Jan 93 17:21:08 GMT

In article <C1DC78.AzC@cs.bham.ac.uk> jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin) writes:

   Ok there seem a lot of intest in this idea so far I have the following interested, 
   anyone else wanna join please mail me. We may not win but we can always use lag as an excuse :-) (wait till they play here .........) we need about 6 more to get a
   reasonable team.

   jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk				wibble
   js138@cus.cam.ac.uk				Yoda
   sn@plato.chemietechnik.uni-dortmund.de		Courier
   steffen@fb3-s7.math.TU-Berlin.DE		??????
   bert@mc.bio.uva.nl				booz, KILLERBEE!!!
   lab@mtek.chalmers.se				lab


Hmm, I didn't say I'm joining immediately but only if we could find a pleasent
time which I guess is almost impossible. I'm unable to play on other German or
European servers most of the time so I hadn't even a chance to play ENL,
and now INL ???
What about a test game first of all to see what it's like ?

Matthias

--
<Matthias Steffen                  | Technical University of Berlin     > 
<steffen@fb3-s7.math.tu-berlin.de  | Department of Mathematics          >
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Nobody of Importance)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:35:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: huey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan21.190620.63021@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
]In article <1993Jan21.205121.24813@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, bdhall@todd.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
]> 	I vote no, and I'll tell you why....   Fife had the DD with 35pt torps
]> for a while.  Basically what it did was make approx. 68% of the players choose
]> the DD.  That tells me that the DD was too powerful and is why the torps were
]> put back at 30pts.  
]
]	Actually, most people probably played it, because it was a novelty, at
]35 points, they still don't compare to a CA's or BB's 40 points.  After time,
]it probably would have worn off.
]	Furthermore, I have found that most people cannot handle a CA
]correctly, so I can run around in a DD, with greater maneuverability, (I think
]this is a just sacrifice for power) and usually do quite well.  The only time I
]would use a CA vs a CA, is when there is a capable player piloting one...

I almost always fly DDs and I've found that they are pretty good at dogfighting
against larger ships. They are especially the death of all those ensigns who
learn to fly BBs and haven't learned how to use tractors. 30 pts a torp isn`t
much but it can add up quickly. I also use a DD during base oggs or planet
fakes/escorts. While cloaked, I can dodge quite a bit of fire and still close.
If I get hit by a torp I can usually make a quick course change and throw off
anyone trying to track me. I can also usually make it to the base and explode
on top of it; sometimes I can decloak in time to tractor and empty my torps
into it too.
 
]
]		-Lynx

Subject: Patrick Chester            |Words to live by:
Age: NOYB                           |"Military action is important to the     
Address: A place                    |nation--it is the ground of death and     
Email:wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu    |life, the path of survival and destruction
Political Views: Somewhere in orbit |so it is important to examine it."-Sun Tzu
Blackmarks: Politically Incorrect   |Famous Last Words:                        
(hobbies)   Anime Otaku/Trekker     |--If you cut me down, I will only become
            Technocentric           |more powerful...  
            Netrekker (claypigeon)  |--Shhh!! There it is again....           
            Whole bunch of -isms    |--Use the bazooka to open the door...
     Won't remove Sun Tzu quote to  |--I cut the red wire...
     make the Greens happy ;)       |--I have a *very* bad feeling about this
-- 
<***** INSERT LAWSUIT DEFLECTION TEXT*****> 

I speak (type actually) for myself only. Even if I did decide to 
speak for UT, no one would listen. 

Flame away, I don't bleedin' care...
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hauck@cs.washington.edu (Scott Hauck)
Subject: Re: New Sturgeon Style Server
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 08:03:36 GMT

In article <1jkqioINN39f@lynx.unm.edu> schaker@centauri.unm.edu (Stefan Yen Chakerian) writes:
>Solution to the runner scums?  Ogg them.  Buy two one-time overloads,
>chase them down in a BB while they're wasting someone else, and
>they're toast.  I've done this several times to 30+ kill ships.

I think this is the most important point that people need to learn about
Sturgeon-trek: Ogging is VERY important for a team to succeed.  Just as in
xtrek/netrek there was the pre-Ogging planet-scumfest, where people spent
a lot of time switching planets back and forth, and bided their time with
kills, and post-ogging have had to switch strategies, I hope that rabid Ogging
of upgrade scums will become rampant, removing the upgrade-scums as a major
factor.

>
>Even funnier, is that they typically quit afterward.
>

As being the upgrade-scum who motivated the upgrade-scaled kill calculation
(110+ kills in upgrades on a BB - can you say warp 8 SB with an attitude?)
I'd like to point out that for many upgrade-scums, after a while we'd like
to leave, but don't want to simply abandon the large number of kills, nor
deliberately go out and get killed, we simply get sloppier hoping someone will
kill us semi-honestly so we can go home.  So, quiting after dying with lots
of upgrades may not be pouting, it may be simple tiredness.

Moral of the story - Ogg an upgrade scum.  You'll be doing your own team a
favor, and possibly the scum as well!

Scott Hauck
hauck@cs.washington.edu
From: ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean Christopher Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Biggest scum? (Was Re: Yea, tho' I walk through the.... )
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:29:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sfN=sNy00VpNE3P2k5
	<93Jan23.230847est.9087@rock.db.toronto.edu>
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 24-Jan-93 Re: Biggest scum? (Was
Re: .. Huaiqing Wang@db.toronto (531)

> Errrr, correction. 7+ planets, 5+ bombing, 0.5< offence. Also, I never said
> I was the biggest scum. I suppose the entire BOBO (add spaces after
> appropriately) is fairly big. But I suppose chi and Greg and maybe even
> SpaceAce! will argue about that.

> I am just the biggest (best? :)) twink around. I don't have a clue how to
> scum, let along dogfight. I have been following ZZnew guy's "Admiral in
> a day" guide quite religiously. :)


	I don't remember ever having written an "Admiral in a day" guide.  The
only one I remember of JCH's guide for making Admiral on grit before the
t-mode Bots were re-designed to Ogg.  I play the original BOBO, who is
not a scum.  He recently made Comodore on 4XDI.
	Woof players "BOBO " and, I belive, " BOBO".  BatDuck and Stiletto have
their own versions.

ZZnew guy
BOBO
Mace@Trinity
El-ahrairah
The Last Cow
Human Target
Someone
Brother X
Devil's Dam
Mad Uncle
3rd Wheel
Gingerbread Man
Ringman
etc

PS

EIEI
OH!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wk5w@brain.med.virginia.edu (William Katz)
Subject: Proposal for Clue Check
Summary: Monitor stats
Organization: Medical Scientist Training Program, Univ. of Virginia
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:29:32 GMT


>>>help screen and continue to wander uselessly), but give 'em a nice big
>>>explanation of _why_ they were booted so they can learn what the server god
>>>is trying to teach them.
>>Sadly, I think there might be a conspiracy of clueless people
>>here(not necessarily newbies).  I have sat next to, and watched,
>>someone logon to the 'clue' server, send the message to himself,
>>and promptly _turn_off_his_message_window!  I asked him, and he
>>said, 'oh yeah, first time I played, I noticed that message.  I
>>just send the thing to myself and turn it off.'  Evenually, I
>>noticed about four of his friends do the _same_thing.  I asked
>>them about clue, and he said something about he is a good player.
>>I then asked about the messages, and he said he ignored them!!
>>SOme people need to taken to places far away and shot.  So far,
>>in the quest for clue, message reading, and responding to
>>messages seems to me to be the most important part. 
>
>Some days, I think that 60% of mankind is fundamentally stupid.
>Other days, I'm not that optimistic.
>
>If people are really doing this, then the process needs to be repeated every
>15 minutes or so.  That way, they'll get annoyed enough by their own death
>that they either keep up their message window or play elsewhere.
>
>And the time should probably be a random period--every 10-20 minutes--so they
>can't cheese out by going "Oh, it's been a while--I should bring up the
>message window".
>

Why not have the server check your stats for the session and give you
warnings if you aren't playing "well"?  This would mean kicking out
clue who aren't really playing (as I admit to doing at times) as well
as those who couldn't play well even if they tried.

My criteria for ejection would be the following SESSION stats:

(Bombing < 0.1 * # enemy planets) &&
(Offense < 1.0) && 
(Planets < 0.1 * # enemy planets)

where # enemy planets = # planets CURRENTLY held by enemy.

I'm sure better criteria could be found, but this is the first pass.
Warnings would be issued to those who are lacking in all three
stats.

Of course, if the server keeps better track of the players (like
on doorstop), more elaborate measures could be made.  For example,
it should be simple to compute the number of "available" armies
on one side as well as the ogging capability of the enemy.  So the
planets stats should be compared to f(availability, enemy ogging talent).
Likewise, bombing can be compared to some function of the availability
of enemy planet armies and (this is tough) the # of enemy in their OWN
space (can compute location of enemies per unit time).

Make it so :)

-Vlad da Lagged
 Vlad da Outta Fuel
 Vlad da Annoying