HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: RMVLUG_4@FLINT.MINES.COLORADO.EDU (FRANK BERNDT)
Subject: Schroeder Fights Discrimination
Followup-To: amend2-discuss@cs.colorado.edu
Originator: doherty@ucsu.Colorado.EDU
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:53:01 GMT


The OUT FRONT
Colorado's Gay Community Forum
12/09/92

Schroeder Tells Business Community to Fight Discrimination
U.S. Rep. Pat Schroeder (D-CO) wrote Richard Fleming, president of the
Greater Denver Chamber of Commerce, to urge the business community to
become involved in the legal fight against Amendment 2.  The text of the
letter follows:

Richard Fleming
Greater Denver Chamber of Commerce

Dear Dick:
As a follow-up to our telephone conversation, I have two ideas on how
Denver's business community can best respond to Amendment 2.
  The message is clear:  Americans will refuse to visit, vacation, or do
business in a state that officially condones discrimination.  Ironically,
as boycotts of Colorado continue to snowball,the economic impact on Denver,
which voted strongly against Amendment 2, could be particularly
devastating.  That's why I believe business leaders should stand front and
center in the fight to overturn Amendment 2.
  First, the Greater Denver Chamber of Commerce, the Denver Metro
Convention and Visitors Bureau, and their counterparts around the state
could lend financial support to all suits filed against Amendment 2. 
Second, the business community could help create a legal defense and
education fund to help with the court challenges and statewide efforts to
educate people on Amendment 2 and with legal defense efforts for any
Coloradans who are fired, evicted, or otherwise discriminated against as a
result of the passage of Amendment 2.

Patricia Schroeder
Congresswoman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: co.politics.amend2.info
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: The "Hate" Problem -- Amendment 2
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: co
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:24:32 GMT

>    = v042517@stortek.com (Vince Dugar) writes:
>>   = kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
>VD> = v042517@stortek.com (Vince Dugar) writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>VD> I was referring to the potential laws that could be passed -- hence the
>VD> reason for amendment 2 support.

>> Is this a tacit acknowledgement that "special rights" for gays you
>> mentioned don't really exist?

> Yes.
------------------------
>> Sure, Amendment 2 would prevent some hypothetical "special gay rights" law.
>> But moving from the hypothetical to the CURRENT REALITY, Amendment 2 also
>> dictates that gays, but not straights, are forbidden to seek legal recourse
>> for certain forms of discrimination.  Amendment 2 is explicitly a
>> "special prohibition-of-rights" law, FOR GAYS ONLY.  Can you deny this?

> I am not entirely happy with all of the wording of Amentment 2 -- in 
> particular, the "descrimination" phrase.  But I, like others, had  to come
> down on one side or the other in order to cast a vote.  I had read a summary
> put out before the election (from the League of Women Voters) which posed
> arguments from both sides of the issue.  It referred to existing law which
> could be used by a gay individual as protection against discrimination.
> Given all this, I made my choice.  

Is this a tacit acknowledgement that Amendment 2 is in fact a 
"special prohibition-of-rights" law, FOR GAYS ONLY?   <yes,no>


-Brian
Newsgroups: co.politics
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: The "Hate" Problem -- Amendment 2
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:10:03 GMT

>   = v042517@stortek.com (Vince Dugar) writes:
>>  = perrier@teal.csn.org (Perry A. Branch) writes:
VD> = (In response to Greg Woods) Vince Dugar writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
VD>So does this bring us to an impasse?  Aren't laws that support special
VD>rights (don't get hung on those words) for gays *forcing beliefs*?  I

>>I'm curious what laws you are talking about.   There currently no laws in
>>the Colorado that give homosexuals special rights.  If you use those words,
>>I expect you to qualify them.

>I was referring to the potential laws that could be passed -- hence the
>reason for amendment 2 support.

Is this a tacit acknowledgement that "special rights" for gays you mentioned
don't really exist?

Sure, Amendment 2 would prevent some hypothetical "special gay rights" law.
But moving from the hypothetical to the CURRENT REALITY, Amendment 2 also
dictates that gays, but not straights, are forbidden to seek legal recourse
for certain forms of discrimination.  Amendment 2 is explicitly a
"special prohibition-of-rights" law, FOR GAYS ONLY.  Can you deny this?

-Brian
Newsgroups: co.politics
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: The "Hate" Problem -- Amendment 2
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:59:23 GMT

>  = perrier@teal.csn.org (Perry A. Branch) writes:
>> = (In response to Greg Woods) Vince Dugar writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> So does this bring us to an impasse?  Aren't laws that support special
>> rights (don't get hung on those words) for gays *forcing beliefs*? 

> I'm curious what laws you are talking about.   There currently no laws in
> the Colorado that give homosexuals special rights.  If you use those words,
> I expect you to qualify them.

I'll second the motion: please justify the reference to "special *rights*".
The use of the phrase appears to be to create & perpetuate dis-information.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only law I'm aware of that singles out gays (not straights) for 
special *treatment* of any kind is the new Amendment 2, which 
explicitly *forbids* certain rights to gays, but not straights.

-Brian
Newsgroups: co.politics
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: The "Hate" Problem -- Amendment 2
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: co
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:28:42 GMT

> = fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>> = kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>The only law I'm aware of that singles out gays (not straights) for 
>>special *treatment* of any kind is the new Amendment 2, which 
>>explicitly *forbids* certain rights to gays, but not straights.
>
>The point is slightly moot: Gays are far more likely to suffer 
>from this from of discrimination, so they benefit preferentially
>from such laws.

Since women are more likely to suffer from rape, can we say that
laws against rape are "special rights" for females?  
Can we say women "benefit preferentially from such laws"?

Since women & minorities are (were) more likely to prohibited from voting, 
can we say that laws guaranteeing the right to vote are "special rights" for 
women & minorities?  Can we say women & minorities "benefit preferentially 
from such laws"?

-Brian
From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Newsgroups: co.politics
Subject: Re: The "Hate" Problem -- Amendment 2
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:12:39 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

>In article <1992Dec12.202337.21558@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine) writes:
>>But the determination, "real harm," seems irrelevant with Amendment 2.
>>If the discrimination involved was by homosexual or bisexual orientation,
>>Amendment 2 forbids the claim, regardless of harm.  Yes?

>As far as the "no claims of discrimination" clause, yes. (Essentially
>why I voted against it. That clause was an unacceptable singeling
>out of a particular group, in my opinion.) However, the "special
>status" clause does relate to the standing requirments of courts:
>The _normal_ rule is that evidence of real harm is required. However,
>many discrimination laws explicitly create exceptions: Certain 
>parties, who are expected to suffer from discrimination are often
>given automatic standing to sue. For example, if a landlord refused
>to rent to a black man, he could be sued even if the refusal caused
>no real harm or if there was no evidence that discrimination was the
>cause of the refusal. (In this case, the landlord would probably
>win in court, but he would still have to pay legal fees, etc...)

In this case, wouldn't he be able to counter-sue for the time and money
he had to go through for the case?

>This sort of automatic ability to sue, without any evidence of
>real harm, might be part of the "special" status refered to by
>Amendment 2.

>>Relatedly, if widespread discrimination is involved, I can understand
>>putting the discriminatory factor on ordinances - as a specific effort to
>>counter widespread unfairness.

>I'm a little hesitant about this: If the discrimination is widespread,
>then there is a large minority that sees nothing wrong with that
>form of discrimination. A law on the subject would, essentially, impose
>the moral judgement of the majority on a large, pro-discrimination
>minority. In general, I think this sort of imposition of majoritarian
>morals on a sizeable minority is something the government should
>avoid (no matter how much I agree with the majority...)

I'm inclined to say these aren't really morals in the sense of beliefs
that can't be proven or disproven.  If something like skin color or
sexual orientation can be proven to not affect job performance in and of
themselves, then laws countering widespread discrimination by such
factors seem fair to me.

--
--Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--"It is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil.  If
--they would only expend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men,
--the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui."     Helen Keller
Newsgroups: co.politics
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Overpopulation: where did it go?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:02:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.214047.8367@advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
>My impression of Colorado, according to the movies that I've seen ;-), 
>is that it is the wild west and lots of cowboys around. When was that last
>time you saw a non-white cowboy in the movies? ;-) ;-)

I think we elected one...

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder
Newsgroups: sura.security
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 11:52:36 -0500 
From: WILLIS@EVAX0.ENG.FSU.EDU (ac&ns -> fsumg:{ evax })
Subject: subscribe
To: security@sura.net
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"security@sura.net"

SUBSCRIBE WILLIS@EVAX0.ENG.FSU.EDU
Newsgroups: sura.techs
Return-Receipt-To: zmw@selu.edu
Date: 18 Dec 1992 10:42:38 -0500 
From: zmw@selu.edu
Subject: Cisco CERT advisory
To: techs@sura.net
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University
X-Vms-To: IN"techs@sura.net"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi.  We recently received a CERT advisory about Cisco routers and a
problem w access lists.  It advised upgrading the software or obtaining
a fix.  I was wondering:

Does SURAnet advise a minimum Cisco software level (ours is presently
8.2(7))?

Do you advise us to upgrade our router software?

Should we coordinate this with you guys or let you handle it?

As SURAnet members, do we have some type of Cisco maintenace contract?

Thanks for any information you can provide.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Mike Whisenhunt                |Internet: zmw@selu.edu   |How to tell if your
VMS System Manager/Postmaster  |Phone   : (504) 549-3643 |boss has used your 
Southeastern La. Univ, Box 430 |Fax     : (504) 549-5092 |Word Processor? Look
Hammond, La 70402  USA         |"Wise men still seek Him"|for whiteout on CRT.
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 11:18:25 -0500
From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: COS down...



12/16/92	COS
02:00		The Corporation for Open Systems will be down for router
		configuration changes around 2:00 pm today.  This outage
		may last 30mins.


 ---<} Tracy Lee Bowers {>---
       tbowers@sura.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SURAnet                                          Southeastern Universities
Network Operations Center			   Research Association
College Park, Maryland                                                   
(301)982-3214                                      Email: noc@sura.net         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 15:34:23 -0500
From: Ramin Farahi-far <ramin@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: SPEL unreachable

12/20/92	SPEL is unreachable.
15:30 - ?	Spellman College has lost connectivity at this time. No
		other sites are affected by the outage. Estimated uptime 
		is unknown.
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 23:03:09 -0500
From: Ramin Farahi-far <ramin@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: BHS is up.

12/13/92	BHS is up.
22:45		Blair High School is back up again.

Ramin Farahi-far
SURAnet Operations
ramin@sura.net						(301) 982-3214
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 10:17:36 -0500
From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: GIT scheduled maintenance

   Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 09:08:20 -0500
   From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>



12/14/92	Three campus routers at Georgia Institute of Technology
17:00		will be powered down for a major upgrade.  All subnets
  		on campus will be unreachable.  This outage is expected
		to last from 17:00 to 21:00 on Tuesday, December 14, 1992.  
		This upgrade will not include the SURAnet GIT2 gateway and  
		Enss138 will remain reachable .

		

 ---<} Tracy Lee Bowers {>---
       tbowers@sura.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SURAnet                                          Southeastern Universities
Network Operations Center			   Research Association
College Park, Maryland                                                   
(301)982-3214                                      Email: noc@sura.net         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:19:15 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/18/92 ENSS 169  XLINK Scheduled Maintenance 10:00 - 10:30 EST


12/18/92 ENSS 169  XLINK Scheduled Maintenance 10:00 - 10:30 EST.

Due to Emergency software upgrade.

David Langford
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:59:00 -0500
From: Youthana Sivali <youth@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: SURA-8 Scheduled Maintainance



12/11/92 	The SURA-8 router will down for maintainance to correct a 
06:00-06:30EST  recently observed, possible problem in the router's handling
		of the time to live field on packets. Connectivity through
		the route will be disrupted as a different software load
                is installed and tested at 06:00EST and 06:30EST. The following
                sites will experience variable connectivity during the testing
                window:

                UMD-  The University of Maryland                      
                WB-   The World Bank
                UDEL2-The University of Delaware
                GTE-  Government Systems Corporation
                USCG- United States Coast Guard
                NLM-LH  National Library of Medicine- Lister Hill Division



We appologize for any inconvenience,        


Youthana Sivali
SURAnet Operations
(301)982-3214


email to:noc@sura.net
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:17:36 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/15/92 ENSS 132  Pittsburgh Scheduled Maintenance 05:00 - 08:30

       *****************  Correction  ************************

12/15/92 ENSS 132  Pittsburgh Scheduled Maintenance 05:00 - 08:30
  ENSS 132 will be unreachable during this time due to a scheduled card
  installation.  The original installation was sceduled to end at 07:00.
  Due to problems with the new planar board, we will need to extend 
  this window until 08:30.  	

	Bill Nowak
	ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:45:05 -0500
From: "Selina F. Priestley" <sfp@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/30/92 CICNet MSU Scheduled Maintenance 06:00 - 07:00 EST

12/30/92 CICNet MSU Scheduled Maintenance 06:00 - 07:00 EST
due to rearrangement of equipment on local site.

Selina Priestley
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 18:38:56 -0500
From: Ramin Farahi-far <ramin@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: WINT is up

12/19/92	WINT is up.
18:30		Winthrop University is now back up.
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:23:44 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/22/92 ENSS133 Ithaca Scheduled Maintenance 05:00 - 08:00 EST

12/22/92 ENSS133 Ithaca Scheduled Maintenance 05:00 - 08:00 EST.  The
maintenance is scheduled for an FDDI install.  The FDDI install will be
done some time during this window, but it is not expected to take the
entire alloted time.  This will be done in conjuction with the FDDI
install at ENSS 139 Houston.

Stephen Powell
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 20:57:13 -0500
From: Ramin Farahi-far <ramin@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: BHS is down

12/13/92	BHS down.
20:35-?		Blair High School has lost connectivity at this time. 
		Estimated up time is unknown.


Ramin Farahi-far
SURAnet Operations
ramin@sura.net						(301) 982-3214
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 07:31:05 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: Maintenance extended on ENSS 145  Fix-East  06:00-07:20 EST.


12/11/92 ENSS 145  Fix-East Scheduled Maintenance 06:00-07:20 EST.
The original maintenance window was extended by twenty 
minutes due to a problem with an ethernet connection. 

	Bill Nowak
	ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 11:46:17 -0500
From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: Your GIT status mail

 
      Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 09:08:20 -0500
      From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>


*** Correction ***


12/14/92	Three campus routers at Georgia Institute of Technology
17:00		will be powered down for a major upgrade.  All subnets
	        on campus will be unreachable.  This outage is expected
      	     *> to last from 17:00 to 21:00 on Tuesday, December 15, 1992.  
		This upgrade will not include the SURAnet GIT2 gateway and  
		Enss138 will remain reachable .



 ---<} Tracy Lee Bowers {>---
       tbowers@sura.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SURAnet                                          Southeastern Universities
Network Operations Center			   Research Association
College Park, Maryland                                                   
(301)982-3214                                      Email: noc@sura.net         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 19:47:06 -0500
From: Ramin Farahi-far <ramin@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: SPEL is up

12/20/92	SPEL is up.
19:00		Spellman College is back on line again.

Ramin Farahi-far
SURAnet Operations
ramin@sura.net						(301) 982-3214
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:55:47 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/17/92 ENSS 135 San Diego Regional Unreachable 02:33 - 02:45 EST

12/17/92 ENSS 135 San Diego Regional Unreachable 02:33 - 02:45 EST
due to a loss of the egp session with the local site.  The site
affected was,

22 NOSC (Naval Ocean Systems Center) 

Stephen Powell
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:23:41 -0500
From: Tracy Bowers <tbowers@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: scheduled maintenance





12/18/92	USDA
05:00		The US Department of Agriculture will be down from 17:00,
		12/18 Friday to 13:00 12/20 Sunday for maintenance. These
		times are approximate.


 ---<} Tracy Lee Bowers {>---
       tbowers@sura.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SURAnet                                          Southeastern Universities
Network Operations Center			   Research Association
College Park, Maryland                                                   
(301)982-3214                                      Email: noc@sura.net         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:12:25 -0500
From: Lilly Wang <lilly@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: FIU down


12/13/92		FIU
1:20 - ?		Florida International University is down.  No estimated
			uptime is known.  We apologize for any inconvenience 
			this may cause.

Lilly Wang
SURAnet Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 22:14:48 -0500
From: Youthana Sivali <youth@sura.net>
To: status@sura.net
Subject: NASAL Up



12/15/02	The NASA-Langley site is now again reachable. The site had
20:58-21:38	previously been unreachable due to a circuit mapping error
		that had occured in the telco network.



Youthana Sivali
SURAnet Operations
(301)982-3214


mail to:noc@sura.net
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:26:49 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/17/92  ENSS 206 CERN Scheduled Maintenance 02:00 - 03:00 EST


12/17/92  ENSS 206 CERN Scheduled Maintenance 02:00 - 03:00 EST.
The scheduled maintenance will be done during the above one hour
window, and should not last more than 30 minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The scheduled maintenance was completed by 12/17/92 02:20 EST

Stephen Powell
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:07:56 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/17/92  ENSS 135 San Diego Regional Unreachable 21:34 - 22:31 EST

12/17/92  ENSS 135 San Diego Regional Unreachable 21:34 - 22:31 EST
due to problems with the egp peer.  This affected the following regionals.

22 NOSC (Naval Ocean Systems Center)
Stephen Powell
ANS Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:30:34 -0500
From: ANS Network Operations Center <noc@noc.ans.net>
To: nsr@noc.ans.net
Subject: 12/22/92 CICNET UM Scheduled Maintenance 06:00-08:00 EST


12/22/92 CICNET UM Scheduled Maintenance 06:00-08:00 EST.


--Michael O'Neill
  CIC Network Operations
Newsgroups: sura.noc.status
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 11:53:46 -0500 
From: WILLIS@EVAX0.ENG.FSU.EDU (ac&ns -> fsumg:{ evax })
Subject: subscribe
To: status@sura.net
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"status@sura.net"

SUBSCRIBE WILLIS@EVAX0.ENG.FSU.EDU