From: Die^~m-Ho^`ng <DHLAM@utkvx.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: Miserable Vietnamese Girls
Originator: daemon@media.mit.edu
Reply-To: DHLAM@utkvx.utk.edu
Organization: N/A
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:22:58 GMT

Dear SCV netters,
    Just having finished the exams and projects, I skimmed through the articles
on SCV and read about the miserable Vnese girls.  I would like to share some
thoughts of mine with Mr. H.H. Nguyen and other netters.  I hope my response
is not "out of date". 


>Path: utkux1.utk.edu!utkcs2!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!HXHPB%acadvm1.uottawa.ca
>From: HXHPB%UOTTAWA@acadvm1.uottawa.ca (H.H. Nguyen)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
>Subject: [MISC] Miserable Vietnamese Girls ???
>Message-ID: <1992Apr3.030544.19067@news.media.mit.edu>
>Date: 3 Apr 92 03:05:44 GMT
>Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr3.030544.19067
>Sender: owner-scv@media.mit.edu
>Reply-To: HXHPB@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
>Organization: N/A
>Lines: 139
>Originator: daemon@media.mit.edu
 
>    Greetings,
> 
>    In a previous message, when I said I fail to see the linkage
>between prostitution and patriotism, nationalism, I meant the linkage
>as in Mr Son Nguyen's posting as quoted in message # 1 below.
> 
>    To me, (male/female) prostitution is not totally a political
>issue, but it is caused by other social, economic, etc factors as well.
>In Vietnam, it is political in the sense that the Hanoi authorities
>have mis-managed the economy, thus creating poverty and other
>social-economic factors that essentially force people to
>practise the oldest trade.
 
     In my opinion, social,economic factors might be the only causes in other 
countries but not in VN.  Political factor is the root of misery in VN, and  
I think everything has linkage with each other.  When you look at some problems,
I suggest that you look at the root of the problems, not just the surfaces. 
Let's look back the history, has VN ever been in such a condition?  Just like 
Mr. TX wrote: "chu+a co' mo^.t xa~ ho^.i na`o, tu+` Ngo^ DDi`nh Die^.m cho
dde^'n Nguye^~n Va<n Thie^.u, VN dda~ pha?i ddem dda`n ba` con ga'i ra ngoa.i
quo^'c...", there was never such a time VN "exported" slaves to european coun-
tries (the communist government somewhat named it "xua^'t ca?ng lao ddo^.ng")
, and now women are being sold as prostitutes.  Can you see the problem now?  
Please have the feeling of a Vietnamese. Please feel the suffer of your 
people. Don't just see the reason on surface and jump to "economic reason" 
conclusion (just like the way UNHCR reasoned to turn away boat people).  
Everything has to be seen from the root.
 
>    However, it is inadequate to attack the prostitution problem just by
>linking/attributing it to a political regime, and hope/claim that by
>overthrowing the regime the problem will be gone. In Thailand, where
>the governments have never been Communist, prostitution has been
>and still is a serious problem (see included message # 2 below). In
>affluent western societies such as the US, Canada, France, U.K., Germany
>etc, there still are prostitution and there will still be. Some countries,
>e.g. the Netherlands if my memory does not fail me, even legalize the
>trade and tax the practitioners. Whether the sex exchanges happen with
>one nationality or another, within one country or another is an
>irrelevant issue.

   You can't and never should compare our country to other countries. Please
read my above lines and other people's answers to your posting carefully.

>    Consequently, prostitution is not totally a political issue
>but a complex human, social, etc issue. In this sense, I see
>there should be no linkage between prostitution and stimulating
>overseas Vietnamese youth's patriotism, nationalism toward
>Vietnam.

     Can you see the linkage now?  If you had ever seen your literature 
teacher have to "ba'n bia o^m, ca` phe^ o^m", would you have said it had been
a problem with "gia'o du.c gia ddi`nh,.." (I can't recall your exact words)?
Do you think she enjoys doing that? Have you ever heard of any teachers who had
to do such a thing under any other regimes?  Would you still have said so if 
those women were your relatives?  I think you look low on VNese women.  As a
girl myself, I can feel, understand how much they think of their family.  They
would sacrifice for their family.  Imagine yourself to be a girl, sold to other
country, helpless and not knowing the language, how would you feel?  Those
people are normal women.  They have normal dreams of having a stable family,
a normal life, too.  They must be completely desperate and in the dead end to
choose this solution- agreeing to be sold to another country as prostitutes. 
No doubt that in their minds, they thought they would be able to escape and help
their families to get out of VN.  And we all know pretty sure that they can 
never escape.  Imagine how miserable their lives would be!  If you had thought
about these things, felt their suffer, you would not have said it was a 
political game;  it is the heart-breaking truth which needs to be seen and 
solved.  
I think it's our responsibility to find a solution to end those miseries 
because after all we are Vietnamese, we can't turn away from problems& miseries
of our people.  


>    However, practically, it may be a useful political, public
>relationship strategy/ploy to stir up nationalistic emotions by
>raising the issue to the public. Especially when your
>opponent has used it as in case of Vietnam.
 
>    Whether it is justified or not, I am not going to say
>because, after all, it is a political game ;-))
 
>    Cheers,
>    H.H. Nguyen
 
   
P.S.  I am not quite sure whether my English is not good enough to understand
your expressions or you are insensitive enough to talk about our people's
miseries that way.  I see nothing to cheer about this matter, Mr. H.H. Nguyen.
Just a little thought,
DH    (IN%"DHLAM@utkvx.utk.edu")
 

From women's side:
A little thank-you note for anh Linh, Hie^?n, and other netters' sympathy 
writtings on the matter, and anh TT-D for his sympathetic poem.
 

>------------------------ included message # 1   ------------------------
>From: nguyen@airmics.gatech.edu (Son Nguyen)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
>Subject: Re:  Miserable Vietnamese Girls
>Message-ID: <1992Apr1.133711.3354@news.media.mit.edu>
>Date: 1 Apr 92 13:37:11 GMT
>Sender: owner-scv@media.mit.edu
>Reply-To: nguyen@airmics.gatech.edu
>Organization: N/A
>Lines: 130
>Originator: daemon@media.mit.edu
  
>Thu+a ba.n Quang DDi.nh va` ca'c ba.n,
 
>"La`m sao dde^? gia?i quye^'t chuye^.n na`y?"
 
>Ca^u ho?i cu?a ba.n tuy ddo+n gia?n, nhu+ng co' the^? se~ kho^ng co'
>ca^u tra? lo+`i.  Ta.i sao?  Co' hai ly' do ra^'t hie^?n nhie^n:
 
>1- DDa so^' thanh nie^n Vie^.t Nam nga`y nay kho^ng co`n co' ca'i ly'
>tu+o+?ng dda^'u tranh nu+~a.
 
>2- DDa so^' thanh nie^n Vie^.t Nam nga`y nay kho^ng co`n mang na<.ng
>ca'i do`ng ma'u ba^'t khua^'t nu+~a.
 
>.......... deleted stuffs ...................
 
>DDu+.a theo ba loa.i ngu+o+`i ma` to^i co' the^? ke^'t lua^.n nhu+
>tre^n:
 
>a. Kho^ng ddu? can dda?m ddo^'i dda^`u vo+'i Co.ng Sa?n, nhu+ng chi?
>bie^'t cho.n con ddu+o+`ng CO.NG TA'C vo+'i chu'ng.
> 
>b. Chi? lo cho tu+o+ng lai ba?n tha^n.  Cha^'p nha^.n vo+'i kie^'p
>so^'ng ba'm, kie^'p so^'ng nho+`, kie^'p so^'ng go+?i.  Cha^'p nha^.n
>ca'i tha^n pha^.n vo+'i vai tro` ddu+o+.c ga'n cho "Hey, Oriental boy!"
 
>c. Chi? bie^'t mi`nh la` "ddi?nh cao tri' tue^.", kho^ng cha^'p nha^.n
>co.ng ta'c vo+'i the^' he^. dda`n anh dde^? ho.c ho?i, dde^? co' the^?
>"da^'n tha^n" mo^.t ca'ch hu+~u hie^.u.
 
>................ deleted stuffs ......................
 
>Good day,
 
>So+n Nguye^~n
>------------------------ end of included message #1 ----------------------
 
 
>-------------------- included message # 2 -------------------------------
 
>From: apakabar@IGC.ORG (Indonesia Publications/Task Force)
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
>Subject: Thai Child Prostitution Rise
>Message-ID: <9204011717.AA08174@cdp.igc.org>
>Date: 1 Apr 92 17:17:55 GMT
>Sender: Southeast Asia Discussion List <SEASIA-L@MSU.BITNET>
>Lines: 28
>Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
>X-To:         seasia-l@msu.edu
 
 
>    Reuter, Bangkok, Sinfah Tunsarawuth, April 1 - More children are being
>forced into prostitution in Thailand because of the belief that younger sex
>partners are likely to be free of AIDS.
>    "The ages of both male and female prostitutes become younger and
>younger," Saisuree Chutikul, a minister in the Prime Minister's Office,
>told an international conference of social workers.
>    "Many customers seek child prostitutes to serve their sexual needs
>with the belief that these living commodities are virgin and therefore
>free from the disease," she said in opening remarks to the week-long
>conference which started on Monday.
>    Kritaya Archavanitkul, of the Task Force to End Child Sexploitation
>in Thailand, said customers were wrong to think they would be safe from
>Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) or other sexually-transmitted
>diseases.
>    She told Reuters that late last year Thai police rescued a group of
>19 young girls brought from southern China who were forced to work in a
>brothel in southern Thailand.
>    All were infected with the virus that causes AIDS.
>    About 70 to 80 per cent of all girls forced into prostitution are
>infected with AIDS, said Kritaya.
>    The Task Force's Kritaya said there are 50,000 prostitutes under the
>age of 15 in Thailand. Overall there are up to 800,000 prostitutes in
>the country, 10 per cent them male, she said.
>    Thailand prohibits sexual intercourse with a child below the age of
>15.
>    Social workers say police turn a blind eye to the problem and accept
>bribes from operators of the sex industry.
 
>-------------------------- end of included message # 2 ------------------