HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ljones@cithe501.cithep.caltech.edu (Lawrence Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: As long as we're taking suggestions...
Date: 6 Jan 1993 22:43:33 GMT
Organization: HEP, California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cithe502.cithep.caltech.edu

In article <1ifgcvINNauk@shelley.u.washington.edu>, varin@hardy.u.washington.edu (Byron Varin) writes:
 
|> I don't see how making the weapons break would even out the classes at all.
|> Warriors use weapons in hand-to-hand combat throughout all of their existance.

Please read the original article - the chance of your weapon breaking is
lower if you are a warrior, higher if you're a mage. If you're a mage you 
should have your spells to fall back on, if you're a warrior well it's
very bad luck but such things happen - warriors might take to carrying several
weapons and as I mentioned in the last post you would probably have to increase
the probabilty for finding a weapon globally for all classes.

I was envisaging a scenario in which the probability for breakage was very
low for warriors (say, you might expect your weapon to break every hundred 
million or so turns) whereas it was quite high for mages (say 
every million) with enchanted weapons having lower probabilities.  
 
I originally thought of the idea as comparable to when a mage tries to 
recharge a wand and instead the wand disappears; the consequences 
are a bit more dire (especially if you happen to
be fighting an AMHD at the time) but that's the fun. I'm playing a level
36 ranger at the moment and although I have a lot of spells I would
certainly miss it if my weapon broke. I regard rangers as closer to mages
than warriors hence my chance of my weapon breaking would be relatively
high. 

However, I've never played a mage so I don't know if they, in general,
engage in hand-to-hand combat at all at higher levels. If high level mages
expect to kill every creature they meet with spells and never use their
weapon at all then you're right - it would just penalize warriors.

Cheers,
     Lawrence.
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: sku@mits.mdata.fi (Sami Kuisma)
Subject: What is Free Action?
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:28:42 GMT

Hi!

I have a good game going on, Gnome Mage Xp Lv 29, Weapon HA Katana
and so on... but I am wondering what are Gauntlets of Free Action?
At least they dont give me an extra attack, I hit only once per
round with my katana (str 16, dex 18/99).

????

Sami Kuisma
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu (Mike Marcelais)
Subject: UPLOADED: Spoiler File and Druid Class
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:24:05 GMT

Uploaded to ftp.cis.ksu.edu in the /pub/Games/Moria/incoming directory:

moria.spoil.Z - Complete spoilers for the game of Moria.  (version 5.5)
                All the details about spells, items, monsters, traps, stores,
                etc.
(recommended directory: /pub/Games/Moria/doc/moria.spoil.Z)
druid.lzh     - Modified source files for v5.5 of Moria that allow classes to
                have both Mage and Priest spells.  The Druid class is added
                that is a cross between Mage and Priest.
                Patches are also present to disable haggling as an option on 
                the '=' option menu, and to auto-roll a character based on
                minimum wanted stats.
                Save files (excluding characters of Druid Class) are
                compatable with other 5.5 versions in both directions.
(recommended directory: /pub/Games/Moria/patches/druid.lzh)


-- 

+-------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|  Mike Marcelais                     | mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu        |
|  356 Tucker, Box 04783, NCSU        | Fourth Bryan Productions     |
|  Raleigh, NC  27607                 | #include <disclaim.h>        |
+-------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| if the above address bounces, then try the address below:          |
| mrmarcel%eos.ncsu.edu@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu                              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: petitc@vccnw03.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit)
Subject: Weight Limits
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:03:55 GMT

Here's an odd idea (HOW many is that now?? :&P ).  Make weight limits (e.g.
weapon wielding AND weight carrying) dependant on both Str AND the character's
Weight.

Helps make Halflings less powerful and may give humans an edge over Elves and
Half-Elves.


-- 
Cat Owner/Passionate Romantic/Poet/Singer/Dreamer/Philosopher...
That's me!  Modest?  Sometimes.  Crazy?  BETTER BELIEVE IT!! :&)
"The greatest beauty in the world is beauty that is private."
"Protect endangered species!  Contribute to the Exxon Supporter's Fund!"
From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: set prof/sig=[student.narlochn]signews2.txt;
Date: 4 Jan 93 06:34:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i8lq4INNf64
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

narlochn@kirk.msoe.edu writes:

>	Any of you Moria or BOSS players out there...

>	IS there a way of changing the effects that an
>    Energy Vortex has on you?  You know, changing your
>attributes (str,etc.) as it seems to be permanent.
>I had a character go from a 32 str and 11cha to a 
>32 cha and a 11 str.  All my attributes changed like that.

sorry.  it's permanent, no saving throw.  it's one of the "random weirdnesses"
in the game.  if you want to blame someone, blame me.  i wrote it.  :)  about
the only thing you can do is drink lots of things to raise your stats.  if
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 1993 11:45:43 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: As long as we're taking suggestions...
	<1993Jan5.221750.4596@midway.uchicago.edu>



eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu (E. Elizabeth Bartley) writes:
> In article <1h7mskINNi3c@gap.caltech.edu>
> ljones@cithe501.cithep.caltech.edu (Lawrence Jones) writes:
> 
> >Just an idea. To balance up the warrior class, why not add a small probability
> >for your weapon to break while in use (become a broken sword (1d1) or
> >whatever). Since warriors know better how to look after the weapon their
> >probability would be lower. Maybe similarly for rogues. Not sure what to
> >do about priests. Mages probability would be relatively high - but they would\
> n't
> >use their weapon nearly as much anyway.
> 
> >Any comments ?
Um...sorry, but I think this *weakens* warriors.  Mages and priests
don't really need to use their weapons to hit things with.
Realistically, spell casters want a DF for the *other* bonuses, the
fact that you can swing it at monsters and do damage is just  a side
bonus.  So if a spellcaster really wants to fight, he just switches to
some bozo weapon and uses that, and keeps his DF/HA/whatever around
for its other powers (granted, a minor penalty).  While the warrior
(and rogue) are just screwed.  How about warriors and rogues have *no*
chance of a weapon breaking?

> I think that it would feel pretty sickening to *finally* find a Holy
> Avenger or Defender after looking and looking and then have it break.
Hmm...I'd never swing the DF.  HA's would be much weaker though.

	joe
From: chrism@unipalm.co.uk (Chris Mann)
Subject: Re: Living with AMHD's
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:40:04 GMT

rages@pan.arc.nasa.gov (kathy rages) writes:

>I'm interested in finding out what people do about AMHD's (and EL's)
>before they get permanent speed items.

AMHD's - keep well clear.  Use "locate" to keep track of D's in the area
and only investigate what colour they are if you think you can escape.
If you can't teleport, a staff of teleportation might help.

EL's - mages can haste themselves to their speed and use spells, priests
can put down Glyphs of Warding (at level 33) and hurl orbs of draining.

>I'm playing a rogue, so I don't have any of the high level spells,

Tricky.  Warriors and rogues would just have to hope they had the right
magic items/potions etc to give them the capability they need ... ;-)

>when I had a wand of wall building ....I foolishly dropped it to make
>room for something I thought was more useful

Even my mages and priests treasure their wands of wall building.  IMHO
priests are the easiest to advance with - my latest one got to level 21
in a few hours before learning Orb of Draining.  Mages are good but
more difficult to start.  Warriors and rogues have it tough at the
moment - how about POISON (GAS) resistance to let them take on AMHD's
without speed guys?

Chris Mann (chrism@unipalm.co.uk)



>building, but I foolishly dropped it to make room for something I
>thought was more useful, just before I started meeting AMHD's at every
>turn.

>Kathy Rages (a.k.a. Slither)
From: kbs@cs.utexas.edu (Kenneth Brian Samuel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Vote on NMR/noNMR
Date: 9 Jan 1993 12:14:51 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: levelland.cs.utexas.edu




	I fully support Dan Shoham's suggestion! As soon as a power
goes CD, the master should propose a vote for letting that power go
NMR. This vote would require yes's from all active players in order to
pass. If it does pass, then the vote must be retaken before each move
until the power is eliminated or finds a new ruler. If the vote does
not pass, the master or a player may propose a set of orders for th CD
nation (such as mutual support orders) for a vote. Again, a unanimous
vote would be necessary.

And that is _MY_ HUMBLE OPINION!!!
(oh god, it's hard to be humble...)

Ken

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: noyd@carson.u.washington.edu (Steven N Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Suggested mod to judge
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:34:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1isp5kINNp2g
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

positron@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jonathan Haas) writes:

>Make the judge strip every line of an input file past a line beginning
>with "--", UNLESS those lines would be part of a press message.

Better do it for press messages too. Gunboat games rely on
the anonymity.

>The reason: I just got a new mailer, which autoappends my .signature
>to any mail I send. The judge chokes on this. Why not strip signatures
>from input files?

The only difficulty would be identifying them.  The "--" prefix 
line will identify the start of many of them.  How do you find 
the end?  When replying to a message and including the text of 
the original message, my mailer likes to put the 
signature at the top of the message.  I sure don't want my
broadcasts lopped off at the top...

New mailers can be snazzy things, you may find that you can
get it to turn off the auto signature for your diplomacy
mail.
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: elliottm@csulb.edu (Mike Elliott)
Subject: Replacement needed in game air on Durban judge
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:32:37 GMT

Germany played a strange game in air, then decided not to play any longer
but didn't bother to tell the other players or the GM.  Germany has gone
CD, so the other six players would really appreciate someone coming in and
getting this game going again.
-- 
======================================================================
Mike Elliott                                        elliottm@csulb.edu
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: EFF map command fixed, we think
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:30:24 GMT

  Russell found, and fixed, one problem with the map command for the
EFF judge. If you were experiencing problems other than trying to map
games that it does not support, please give it another shot. Thanks.

-David
From: loeb@greco-prog.fr (Daniel LOEB)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Deadline and graces for adjustments and retreats
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:34:26 GMT
Reply-To: loeb@geocub.UUCP (Daniel LOEB)
Organization: Greco Programmation du CNRS

In article <1993Jan7.024539.13888@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) argues that:
>24 hours should be the minimum deadline for any basic Diplomacy game

Although I don't care much for warp speed games (24-48 hour
deadlines), I would like to bring up a possibility here that has not
been previously discussed. How about "real time" diplomacy. 
Deadlines would be 0.5 hours, with maybe 0.25 hour grace period.
The assumption would be that all players would be logged in during the
game, and be playing the game to the exclusion of all other
activities. Hopefully, all players would be able to communicate by
"talk" (or my telephone).

This would be very much like FTF diplomacy in my opinion. Has anyone
tried this?



-- 

Yours, Daniel Loeb				loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr
HOME 	150, cours Victor-Hugo; Appt D45; 33000 Bordeaux France
WORK	LABRI; Universite de Bordeaux I; 33405 Talence Cedex France
Xref: sparky rec.games.diplomacy:742 bit.listserv.dipl-l:430
From: s9000289@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Cameron Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy,bit.listserv.dipl-l
Subject: Re: Game aargh! not eligble for EP (was 24-Hour Warp With NMR)
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:14:59 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales


In article <1993Jan4.212954.12874@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
> In article <C0CJzt.EMq@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.003108.27938@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>For the record, I would like to point out that that game aargh! is
>>not eligble for inclusion in EP.  There are three main rules for
>>inclusion in EP.
>>
>>1)	Must be noNMR
> 
> I acknowledge that aargh! is not eligble for EP.  This does not sadden me
> because, frankly, I'm *very* tired of waiting weeks and weeks for someone
> to submit their move.  If someone takes the full three days and the seven
> day grace to move, then spends a week debating his retreat order, then
> spends a week deciding when to build, you can maybe get in one turn per
> month.  I wish more games were NMR.  I know that NMR is not a situation
> you'd get sitting around a table with some friends and it DOES mean that
> the game is no longer a pure strategy game worthy of analysis and debate,
> but it *does* keep the game moving.
> 
> As moderator, I will be keeping a detailed log of all press and actions by
> the players in order to create an article about the game for posting here
> on rec.games.diplomacy.  If EP doesn't want it, that's fine; perhaps it
> will still be of use to people who want to know more about how NMR
> actually works in the course of a game.

Just like to throw in my support for NMR.  It seems to me that vacant 
positions, once advertised on r.g.d, fill up quickly unless it is a
hopeless position.  A hopeless CD position will not harm a NMR game
too much as it was likely to fall anyway.

Cameron
From: gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: NMR vs. noNMR
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:29:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

I've been following the discussion of the above subject in with some
interest.  As it happens, I'm currently in an NMR game and several
noNMR games.

I'd have to agree with Joel:  a noNMR game which replaces its players two
times over the course of the game is no more "real" Diplomacy than an NMR
game with 1+ players who have gone CD.

It occurs to me:  Why couldn't the EP list NMR games with moderators (such
as "aargh") in which no CD countries have affected the outcome of the
game?  Naturally, the moderator would have to certify that this was the
case.  The only difference would be that the game would be assigned an EP
number AFTER the game instead of before the game.



Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: Mark.Wilson@launchpad.unc.edu (Mark Wilson)
Subject: Retreats
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:20:29 GMT






	Are there any ambitious programmers out there who have access to
the judges code?  Actually you don't even have to be ambitious to 
implement this change.  I have noticed that the Judge will initiate a
retreat phase even if there is only one legal retreat!  Since the
judge handles everything else so well I was surprised to see this.
	Can someone implement this simple 'upgrade'?  I would do it
myself if I could ftp files off the net.
	If you belong to the don't fix it unless its broken club, then
this upgrade would seem rather trivial.  I just thought it would be nice
to shave a day or two off the game when this occured.

	Mark  --  a very very busy medical student :(    
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy,bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: The relative merits of NMR
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:48:56 GMT

[Having established that Joel doesn't particularly care about whether EP or
 the Hall of Fame include NMR games, I'm shifting topic here, and have
 changed the Subject line to reflect that.]

Joel Furr (jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu) writes:

> Okay, then, let me clarify. [he does; snip]
> 
> 4) I'm willing to argue long and hard with any snobs who tell me that
> Forever-And-A-Day-With-A-Cast-Of-Dozens games are "better" and "truer to
> the spirit of the game" than NMR.

Well, I hope I don't get classed as a "snob" for my opinion, but I prefer
noNMR games to NMR, but not because I think they're more Pure or Blessed In
The Eyes Of The Lord or whatever. I do think noNMR is truer to what I think
Diplomacy is "about", to the reasons I play the game, though of course other
people may play the game for different reasons.

One of the reasons I like Diplomacy so much, though, is that the random
elements are minimized. I think someone else suggested earlier that NMR
added more randomness to the game, and I tend to agree: one of my allies
going CD at a crucial juncture without warning (and I would imagine NMR
disappearances are usually not anticipated) can completely screw over an
otherwise sound plan. Catastrophe strikes, without warning, and without any
chance for me to do anything about it.

When my ally gets abandoned and taken over, it's true (as I think Joel
mentioned) that there's no guarantee that his replacement will be interested
in continuing our alliance. However, I at least have the chance to negotiate
with the new player, and if he seems intractable, I can rethink my relations
with the other players. It's disruptive, certainly, but no more so than an
NMR: someone going CD is effectively equivalent to the player being replaced
by someone who refuses to negotiate or make any alliances. Either way, the
old alliance is in danger, but I'd much rather have at least a chance at
persuading the new "player" to help me out.

Argue if you like; I'm open to other ideas. I don't see how getting a new
player for a position could possibly be any worse than the power going CD,
though, except that the game may move slower--but I'd rather play a slower,
less random game. If you prefer speed to predictability, that's fine too,
but then we just have different preferences, not opposing views.

I hope to summarize some of this discussion in the upcoming *cough* issue of
EP, by the way.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"I guess we were all guilty, in a way. We all shot him, we all skinned him,
and we all got a complimentary bumper sticker that said 'I helped skin Bob.'"
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Warp Weekday Game
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:40:14 GMT

AL> == Andy Lipscomb <LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
DS> == Daniel Shoham <shoham@ll.mit.edu>

 DS> TRANSWARP, ANYONE?
 DS> ------------------
 DS> Also, has anyone ever tried/considered "transwarp" games - say 1 hour
 DS> limit? Clearly, all player would have to be from nearby time-zones,
 DS> and the game should not be played around the clock. A game like that
 DS> should do about 3 years per day and be done within a week or so (by
 DS> shear exhaustion - if for no other reason :-) ).

 AL> OK, I'll bite.  If I hear no objection, I will start such games soon
 AL> on the South Africa judge (far less crowded than EFF, and more
 AL> reliable than Australia).

I would encourage you to use the EFF judge, if only because link congestion
on the *.za link could become a factor for such a fast game (everyone going
CD, for example, just because someone wanted to get X11R5 to Rhodes U :).
morrolan seems to be taking the load fairly well, and as long as there
aren't dozens of unmoderated games taking up David's time (since there
aren't *any* unmoderated games :) the human constraint shouldn't become an
issue either.

(Also, the fact that morrolan runs on EST instead of GMT+0400 helps make
the deadline computations a little easier :)
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
From: PL436000@brownvm.brown.edu (Jamie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Chaos victory points
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:36:20 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

>From: desper@math.rutgers.edu (Rick Desper)

>Consider this: the feat of winning is akin to that of winning two
>6-player games, in succession.  As such, it would seem that an
>appropriate number of victory points would be twice the number of
>victory points for a victory in a six-player game.

Very clever, Rick.
But there's something wrong here.

If you play in two six-player games, and you win the first
but lose the second, you get five points. And if you lose the
first, you still have a chance to score points in the second.

If you play in one Chaos game, and lose the "first six-player
game" of the two that it comprises, you get no points. And if
you win the first and lose the second, you get no points.

You might think of it this way. When you win the first "6-player
subgame" of a Chaos game, you are then in a second "6-player
subgame" along with five other players, all of whom are putting
THEIR points on the line, and so are you. If you win, you ought
to get all of those points. You're putting up points as
collateral, so you ought to get some reciprocation.
(Maybe a chaos win ought to be worth 25, by this reasoning? No, that
can't be right....)

(Note that by defending Mauri's huge cache of chaos points,
I am helping to keep him WAY above me in the ratings. I don't
ALWAYS defend positions that are in my HoF-point interest....)

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy