HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:33:06 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.

In article <Jan20.190138.72275@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>
>This country has the LOWEST gas prices of ANY other country.
>Therefor, we really shouldn't complain about an increase in gas cost.

So, in whichever state has the lowest burglary rate, those who are
robbed shouldn't complain about being robbed? 

>Increasing the gas tax would provide extra funds for the government
>to put into alternative energy research, newer, more economical and
>environmentally friendly mass transit systems, etc....

Mostly etc., I imagine; keep in mind that we're talking about the same
governments that run RTD (as of about five years ago, the most recent
year I have figures for, at a cost of about $4.50 per passenger-trip,
or more expensively than it would be for Colorado taxpayers to purchase
new Geo Metros for every daily bus-rider) and the Colorado Clean Air
Program whose principal effect is to increase fuel consumption and 
pollution by requiring the use of oxygenated fuels that produce higher
levels of some pollutants and decrease fuel efficiency by 10-20%.

In order for the government to have any likelihood of using those funds
effectively, in addition to implementing the new taxes, we'd also have
to implement a new government.

Trygve 
Newsgroups: co.general
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Amnd.2 Boycott is Counterproductive.
Organization: CIRES, University of Colorado
Distribution: co
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:23:29

In article <EJH.93Jan21095317@khonshu.colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:

   And finally, why should any gay-rights activist care about the
   individual people of Colorado? Do you care that the boycott of South
   America probably hurt plenty of people who never discriminated against
   ^^^^^^^  woops! I meant South Africa of course



--
	Don't blame me, I voted against Amendment 2!

Edward Hartnett				ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu

Newsgroups: co.general
From: smithrud@advtech.uswest.com ()
Subject: Re: Phone numbers?
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:14:41 GMT

In article <Jan26.010425.23936@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller) writes:
>I hope this topic isn't too "general", but here goes...
>
>When I purchase something on my VISA card and they (sometimes) ask for my
>phone number, I refuse, since I am under the impression that you legally have
>the right to refuse to give that information, and that the company will only
>use it for phone lists that they sell.
>
>Now I've seen many stores asking me for my phone number when I buy something
>with a check.  I show my driver's license when they ask for it, and I've been
>giving my phone number, as not to make a big deal, but I'd rather not.
>
>My question is:  Are you under any obligation to give a phone number for a
>check purchase?  Do companies use this phone number (on your check) in the same
>way they do on credit cards.
>
>I was wondering since the credit card is backed by a credit company there 
>shouldn't be any need for further verification, but it's up to the store to
>get credit from the check.
>
>Thanks for any advice.
>

I have never read or heard that a person is obligated to give out their
phone number when making store purchases with a credit card or a
personal check.  I have never been asked for a phone number when making
a credit purchase.  I have been asked for my phone number when purchasing
by check, but so far none of the cashiers have complained when my
response has been, "I'm sorry, but I don't have a phone."  They can
ask to see a major credit card, a driver's license and/or a check
guarantee card.  I don't think they need my home phone number on top
of all that.

Cari
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:53:33 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: anthrax-fddi.solbourne.com

While reading article <1993Jan21.151743.26574@ncar.ucar.edu>, I noticed that
chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu said the following:
 >Well, we can do it voluntarily now or wait until the supply dwindles,
 >which will do it automatically.  It will happen by choice or market
 >forces.

Great, then let's do it by market forces.  Regarless of what you may think
about Amoco, Mobil, Shell and the rest, do you think that when oil supplies
run low they'll say "hey, that was fun, let's close now"?  They'll put more
and more research into alternative fuels and producing them at prices as
close as possible to what we now pay for gas.  They'll need to do it to
survive, something which is a goal for most companies...
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed herein
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, NOT those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really better than old?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:21:21 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: anthrax-fddi.solbourne.com

While reading article <1993Jan26.164700.7502@claven.ucar.edu>, I noticed that
woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) said the following:
 >Your definition of "free flow" is a lot different than mine! When we extract
 >it at gunpoint from nations that don't want to sell it to us for whatever
 >reason, this isn't "free flow".

Exactly which nations are we extracting oil from at gunpoint?  We seem to be
paying these nations we're "forcing" to sell us oil an awful lot of money each
year...

 >Did it ever occur to anyone that the "problem" is that we Americans are too
 >dependent on our automobiles? If we weren't, Saddam would not be able
 >to wield so much influence over us. The "problem" is that we are bent
 >on consuming resources that we do not have, so we extract them from others
 >by force.

Once again, what force?  Even in the case of Iraq, Saddam would have been glad
to sell us oil, at HIS prices.

I won't even get into the argument about buying locally; as I've said before I
(troublemaker that I am) believe in buying the best possible product for the
lowest possible price.
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed herein
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, NOT those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
Newsgroups: co.general
From: era@csn.org ()
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Originator: era@teal.csn.org
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Reply-To: era@csn.org ()
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:12:12 GMT

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms.
Colorado's Amendments 1 and 2 are the extremists' most obvious successes
to date.      
--
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
-- 
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
Newsgroups: co.general
From: worobec@spot.Colorado.EDU (WOROBEC MICHAEL)
Subject: Sale!!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:20:41 GMT


                  FOR SALE:


        Trek 420 touring, ridden less than 100 miles, 
                          all accessories, $300

        Yamaha twin-12 100-watt musical instrument amp, $150.
        
        Bauer Inline Skates, brand-new condition, size 10, $90.
    
        Sony portable telephone, $45.

        Snow tires (4) 155-12's, studded, only 2K miles, $140.

	Sigma (Martin) acoustic guitar, well-seasoned, mellow, 
                       great action, perfect condition, hard case $200.


        Contact: Mike Worobec 303-545-9688 (Boulder)


        
Newsgroups: co.general
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado amendment 2 information / boycott
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:58:46 GMT

eh> Edward J. Hartnett

eh> Well, as a matter of fact I saw on CNN recently a report from some organ-
    ization in Denver that tracks hate crimes against gays. Immediately after
    the election the number of such incidents has risen very very sharply.

  The organization in question is hardly unbiased. Its name has slipped my
  mind, but it is not an objective source. I have yet to hear of any police
  agencies that have reported massive increases in "hate crimes". Just like
  in the other thread, I think the whole idea of "hate crime" or "bias inci-
  dent" is bogus, and dangerous.

eh> I think it is quite likely that A2 has given the green light to many gay
    bashers that previously were restrained by the social approbation against
    such activity.

  That's merely your opinion. Besides, I doubt a mere piece of paper can re-
  strain idiots who assault others. It's not A2's problem that these jerks
  see its passage as a "green light". The problem is the jerks, not A2. And,
  we already have laws against assault and other forms of personal violence.
  A2 had no effect on these laws.

eh> Now it's more stylish to hate gays than it was before the election.

  Well, the strident types ("The Hate State", "everyone who voted for A2 is
  a homophobic bigot", "the ovens are being warmed up") certainly make it
  easier to get extremely irritated by their hatred and rhetoric. I'd bet
  that if A2 was voted on again tomorrow, it would pass by an even wider mar-
  gain.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:44:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.164335.27697@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>Problems of inattentive/drunk/sleepy/incompetent drivers
>can be addressed through existing laws (i.e. simply making licensing
>tests more challenging, enforcing the reckless driving laws, etc...) 
>Similarly, congestion can (to some extent) delt with by improved
>highway planning among other things. Pollution and environmental 
>damage can be reduced by emissions control devices.

I think we are into an area here that is largely a matter of opinion,
but I believe that practically all of the problems associated with cars
are due to the fact that every individual has to drive. I really don't
think these problems will be permanetly solved until we come up with
some kind of transportation system (public or private) that does not
require everyone to control their own individual vehicle.  I think most
of your proposed actions above would HELP (although some of them
may be beyond our economic capabilities right now), but they address what I
consider to be the SYMPTOMS of the problems, not the root cause.
It's rather like taking a sore throat lozenge to cure strep. It
may FEEL better on the surface, but the real problem is not addressed.

--Greg
Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:59:47 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 3429@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <Jan21.180407.17863@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>Remember, quite a bit of this money they're wasting is going to
>>subsidise our driving habbits.  (i.e. oil industry, roads, war,
>>etc....)
>
>"Subsidise" implies that they are spending more on these things than
>the gas tax covers (about $50 billion/year). I don't know of any
>federal funding going to the oil industry. We've had one war that
>could be connected to oil in the past decade, at a cost of under
>$50 billion (after subtracting the contributions from allies), i.e.
>under $5 billion/year averaged over time. Do federal, state and
>local governments spend over $45 billion each year on roads?
>
Federal, State, and local governments probably spend WELL over $45 billion each
year.  I remember about 5 years ago Colorado alone got $9 MILLION in federal
funding just for maintenance of some Interstates.

As far as subsidising oil companies, I'll use the EXXON example.  Exxon was fined
some large sum of money.  Although I don't remember the exact figure, this covered
LESS than 20% of the cost of clean-up then, not to mention the environmental toll
and the yearly costs since then.

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:19:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.151743.26574@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>> >At some point the U.S. is going to need to make a shift away from cheap gas.

>>Why?  ...

>Well, we can do it voluntarily now or wait until the supply dwindles,
>which will do it automatically.  It will happen by choice or market
>forces.

That's only true, if you assume no equally cheap alternative will
be available when supplies dwindle. Since we are talking about 
many decades from now, I don't see how you can make this assumption.
Why not wait until we know if there is a problem, before we try to
solve it?

                                               Frank Crary
                                               CU Boulder
Newsgroups: co.general
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:17:43 GMT

kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>While reading article <1993Jan19.152719.4379@ncar.ucar.edu>, I noticed that
>chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu said the following:
> >At some point the U.S. is going to need to make a shift away from cheap gas.
>
>Why?  ...

Well, we can do it voluntarily now or wait until the supply dwindles,
which will do it automatically.  It will happen by choice or market
forces.

--Chris
Newsgroups: co.general
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:27:31 GMT

kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>Then that's your standard, you're free to choose.  If I drive into downtown
>Denver (e.g. Continental, United Artists) to see a movie because I'm not going
>to spend $6.00 to see a film at the ShoeBox 6, that's mine.

I realize this is a matter of opinion, but you actually consider
spending an hour in a car, just to sit in a nicer theatre for 2
hours a higher standard of living?

This gets back to my initial statement.  Cheap gas has led to
a poor layout of infrastructure (movie theatres, markets).  And
the poor layout forces (forces is stronger than I want, but I
can't come up with a better word) you to rely on your car. 
If gas cost more, people would complain, and maybe someone would
build a better theatre in Boulder.

--Chris
Newsgroups: co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:34:54 GMT

In article <Jan25.195947.35602@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>...Do federal, state and
>>local governments spend over $45 billion each year on roads?

>Federal, State, and local governments probably spend WELL over $45 billion each
>year.  I remember about 5 years ago Colorado alone got $9 MILLION in federal
>funding just for maintenance of some Interstates.

I don't follow your logic here: Even allowing for inflation (say a factor of
1.25) and assuming federal funds only cover a quarter of the Colorado
road building/maintaince costs, that's only $45 million/year spend here.
Assuming Colorado spends an average amount per capita on this (which is
an overestimate: We have fewer people and more miles of road than the 
national average), this would only account for $4.5 billion: A tenth of
the money collected in gas taxes.

>As far as subsidising oil companies, I'll use the EXXON example.  Exxon was fined
>some large sum of money.  Although I don't remember the exact figure, this covered
>LESS than 20% of the cost of clean-up then, not to mention the environmental toll
>and the yearly costs since then.

Do you have an actual number to attach to this? This is one extreme and rare 
example, (I.e. the cost of this one event probably approaches the average
per-year cost of such things.) I really doubt Exxon could eat a fine of
several billion dollars and stay in business...

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: jrbd@craycos.com (James Davies)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Phone numbers?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:12:21 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan26.061441.7865@advtech.uswest.com> smithrud@advtech.uswest.com writes:
>In article <Jan26.010425.23936@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller) writes:
>>
>>My question is:  Are you under any obligation to give a phone number for a
>>check purchase?  Do companies use this phone number (on your check) in the same
>>way they do on credit cards.
>
>I have never read or heard that a person is obligated to give out their
>phone number when making store purchases with a credit card or a
>personal check.

True, but stores aren't obligated to accept personal checks either.  They
do have agreements with VISA et al to accept their credit cards.  The
basic difference is that when the store accepts a check, they're assuming
the risk if it bounces, but once VISA approves your credit-card purchase
the store is off the hook.

If you don't like the store's policy (and you can't talk them out of it)
you can always pay cash -- I've never heard of anyone demanding personal
information to accept a dollar bill.  But if you want to pay with a check,
they're entitled to get some information to help them verify that you're
not trying to rip them off.
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Phone numbers?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:07:40 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

smithrud@advtech.uswest.com writes:

>I have never read or heard that a person is obligated to give out their
>phone number when making store purchases with a credit card or a
>personal check. 

No, you are not obligated to give your phone number.  And the merchant is
not obligated to accept a check or credit card as payment.  There is only
one kind of legal tender that must be accepted as payment for all debts
public and private, and it's green and has pictures of dead presidents
(and Ben Franklin) on it.  Other than that, payment can be in any form--
gold bullion, quartz beads, trapdoor encrypted numeric vouchers-- provided
that that the terms are agreeable to BOTH parties.  So, if you pay cash
they HAVE to take it; if you want to pay some other way, they can ask
you to do a few things to make them happy.


Paul Ciszek                      When we are planning for posterity, we
                                 ought to remember that virtue is not
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu            hereditary.     --Thomas Paine
Newsgroups: co.general
From: era@csn.org ()
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Originator: era@teal.csn.org
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Reply-To: era@csn.org ()
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:12:15 GMT

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms.
Colorado's Amendments 1 and 2 are the extremists' most obvious successes
to date.      
--
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
-- 
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Newsgroups: co.ads,co.general
Subject: Re: House For Sale
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:23:17 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Distribution: co
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpctdkf.col.hp.com

I'm not really shopping (not till next year) but am watching
prices. Where is this house?

Thanks in advance

Laura Johnson
lpj@col.hp.com
-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
Xref: sparky co.general:2724 misc.forsale.computers.mac:2562
From: rael@col.hp.com (Mike Rael)
Newsgroups: co.general,co.ads,misc.forsale.computers.mac
Subject: Macintosh Classic For Sale
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:53:02 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Distribution: co
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcslb11.col.hp.com

For Sale

Mac Classic 2/40
Imagewriter I printer
2400 baud external modem
Full Impact (Spreadsheet)
FullWrite Professional
dBase Mac
Flight Simulator Game (name escapes me)
lots of shareware games
other things (mouse pad, power strip, paper, etc.)

Everything above, ready to go, available for $950 or best offer.  Reason for
selling?  I've become a Microsoft Windows fan.  Yikes!

Contact me via e-mail or at work: (719) 590-3567  (Colorado Springs)
Newsgroups: co.general