HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Lit., Etc., Triv.  [was: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE]
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:15:06 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Interzone Office
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>Which reminds me of a question I had regarding British usage.  C.S. Lewis
>(d. 1963, so this was a while back) ...

Pop quiz:

Name (at least) two other (famous) people who died on the same day.

N
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bp494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dana Goldblatt)
Subject: Re: European historical novel?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 01:10:32 GMT


Judy  ( lin@apple.com ) wrote:
>Any opinions on _First_Man_In_Rome (or its sequel) ...?

I have an opinion of these two books, _The First Man in Rome_
and _The Grass Crown_ by Colleen McCullough.

I think they fit her request well except I do not think
you can find TGC in paperback yet.  They are entertaining
enough (very readable except the end of tGC which bogs
down in wars) and seem to be accurate (I've been checking
in my library) except on a few points on which there
doesn't seem to be a great deal of agreement, such
as when Caesar got married the first time and who it
was to. (which doesn't happen until the end of tGC either).

Although she seems to have interpreted the history her own
way, it makes sense with internal consistency, and at least
for the first book-and-a-half, I was enjoying it tremendously.

She concentrates on the people who became famous and their
relatives, mostly.  The title characters of the first tow
books are Gaius Marius ("The First Man in Rome") and 
Lucius Cornelius Sulla (seeker after "The Grass Crown")
... the main problem with the books is the liberal use
of prophecy, although I could make a case for it as 
giving a reason interior to the book to help the people
who cant prophesy from the exterior (because they don't
know Roman history well enough).  

The books are set around 100 BC, a time when the Roman
people ruled a  large area, and elected political/war
leaders from their wealthiest class.  The author makes
their culture comprehensible but alien at the same time,
and the long glossaries at teh end of the books make 
almost as good reading as the novel part.

The characters are brought to life very well; each one has
a well defined personality.  When it comes to the
main characters, they are completely believable and 
I can imagine they were really just as she describes; 
which, at least in the case of Sulla, is downright scary.


There is supposed to be another book, which is maybe
called "The Rising Sun"... This I would guess refers to 
Pompey, a minor character in tGC, because in one of the
historical references I read it said that Pompey got 
the better of Sulla by telling him "More people worshiip
the rising than the setting sun."

The people who got mad about the book Songmaster 's portrayal
of a negative-result homosexual relationship may not like
the author's interpretation of Sulla's relationship with 
Metrobius (which is historically based at least somewhat).

-Dana (formerly at Brandeis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Re:Hist/disp on hol/Laura
From: ctodd@desire.wright.edu
Date: 12 Apr 92 04:28:24 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Apr09.163750.49761@cs.cmu.edu>, kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico) writes:
> Roger(I can't remember your name; I think that was it), my original
> post dealt with literature that grossly underestimates the number of
> jews killed by the Nazis.  I even had a legitimate reponse to it.
> 
> The post you refer to had nothing to do with you, so stay out of it.
> 
> Anyway, I couldn't possibly argue with anyone who uses such contrived 90s
> terms as "netiquette".  What a loser.
> 

   I think the problem arose when you didn't include a list of all those
   who weren't  allowed to respond. You bitch about someone trying to
   foist rules and procedures on you then turn around and attempt the
   same. You post with a split brain.

   c todd
From: jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: King Arthur. Many Many Versions...
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:52:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <JOHNS.92Apr3144937@bounty.sinet.slb.com> johns@bounty.sinet.slb.com (John R Schectman) writes:
>
> 4. Marion Zimmer Bradley - Avalon (?)
>    Again Fantasy.  Great Book. From Morgan LeFay's point of view.

"The Mists of Avalon", and she doesn't use the "Zimmer" for this title, 
at least in all the copies I've seen.

There's also another fantasy "Down The Long Wind" by (I think) Gillian
Bradshaw.  These two (the Bradley and the Bradshaw), are by far my
favourites.  I've said before, and I'll say again, I find T. H. White
tedious, pretentious and patronising.  I know it's a style, it's just
not a style I admire.

Jane (thinking of some re-reading now this thread's going again)

-- 
Jane Lean                                                 jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au
Computer Power Group                                     Phone:  +61-3-8230213
19 Cato St., East Hawthorn, 3123                   "And the granite sky wept."
Melbourne, Australia                                   -- Evelyn Waugh "Scoop"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:24:08 GMT

jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>Advice for those who fear being misunderstood when they go to the
>store and ask for rubbers.  Ask for a pair of rubbers.  The wrong
>interpretation requires a considerable stretch of the imagination.


Christ, Johnno, for old folks  like you to be contemplating such things, 
a "stretch" of the imagination is a considerably accurate appraisal.



>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305



jw


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Subject: Re: Unbearable Lightness of Being (was Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:58:40 GMT

dstein@amalthea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:

>In article <1992Apr11.170359.26792@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>,
>wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>|> In article <1992Apr10.055132.19393@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
>|> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
>|> >[Ulysses] belongs to a class of art which remains aloof from the
>|> >reader/audience. It's like Kundera's "Unbearable Lightness .." (only
>|> >in this sense, of course - Ulysses is far more complex)
>|> 
>|> I must have missed something when I read _Unbearable Lightness..._,
>|> then, since I felt none of the aloofness you mention.  In fact, the

>   Kundera wrote the book in a very accessible manner, and did so on purpose, 
>I think.  Perhaps by "aloofness" you mean certain unrealness of the characters
>and situations, in the sense that they seemed coming more from the author's
>manipulation of them then from real life.

I do not. Read my reply to the previous post.



> Kundera does this quite openly.
>But unlike Ulysses, _Unbearable Lightness..._ is easy to read and allows you
>to sink in as much or as little as you feel fit.  

>    Which, I must note, does not mean it is a simple book -- in fact, I wonder
>if Ulysses is that "far more complex" --  it is simple `locally', in the sense
>that you can read any part of it without great effort or fundamental loss of
>meaning.  But as a whole,  _Unbearable Lightness..._ is quite complex.


I don't know what you mean by "complex".  Does "Ulysses" have an overall
form? Is it important to its meaning? If so, it is more "complex" in the
sense that it is far longer and contains more cross-referenced detail.

I accept Joe Green's point that it was written as a comedy. 



> - David
> 

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
>Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
>================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===


Te, kurvo, odpierdol sie!

jw


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.history,soc.culture.jewish
From: tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Vol VII, The Halliford Edition.
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:05:25 GMT
Organization: The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington

In article <1992Apr12.212659.4765@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>I find I am now missing Volume VII of the Halliford Edition of the
>works of Thomas Love Peacock, and I'd much appreciate anyone's help
>in finding me a relacement. 

	Or you could just ask Joe Green to give it back.

-- 
				Tom Maddox
			tmaddox@u.washington.edu
		"Writing is reading and reading is writing."
				A. S. Byatt
From: hg13@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Howard Gershen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:52:11 GMT
Reply-To: hg13@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Howard Gershen)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <10395@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>It's certainly true that without the governments involved, the
>Holocaust would have been more like a big pogrom.  I don't doubt
>for a second that liberals would prefer everyone forgot that 
>without governments, and their efforts at disarming the victims,
>the results would have been radically different.
> 

Let me make sure I've got this right...

1) Without government, the Holocaust would "only" have been a pogrom. So, 
   government is evil or exacerbates evil, and that means we should do
   away with governments and let the dirty work be done by civilians.
   Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we are actually witnessing here
   the birth of a new Revisionist theory of the Holocaust, a sort of
   "moral relativism" regarding "private sector genocide"[tm].

2) If, during the late 1920s to mid-1940s, every Jew in the world was
   issued a small armament (as a Bar or Bat Mitzvah present?), then the
   Holocaust could have been prevented.

3) Liberal governments, by fostering gun control laws, have complicity
   in the Holocaust. Hmmm. That must mean that if a government was
   _not_ Liberal, it had _no_ gun control laws. Then I guess the less
   Liberal the government, the more guns that were available, and the
   smaller the likelihood that a/the Holocaust would occur. So (and
   here's the tricky part; prepare to stretch your neurons past their
   breaking point), if a government was anti-Liberal, ferociously
   anti-Liberal, maybe even...Fascist, it would stand to reason, using
   this logic, that there would have been no Holocaust at all in such
   a country.

Wow!

Two Holocaust revisions in one posting! The mind boggles!

The hell with donating to the Anti-Defamation League, the Simon
Wiesenthal Center, or the U.J.A. I'm going to give all my money to
David Duke. He must really be a friend to the Jews.
From: kishore@simius.as.nps.navy.mil (Kishore Sengupta)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:55:56 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, CA


I've just finished reading two books - San Camillo, 1936, by Jose Camillo Cela, and The Best of
Granta Travel. 

The book by Cela is set against the backdrop of the civil war, and presents an
unusual perspective on the war as it was seen by the Spaniards themselves.  I was brought up on
stories of Hemingway, Capa and others who participated in the International Brigade, and for a 
long time was extremely unsympathetic towards anybody who had anything to do with Franco and Co. 
(Cela did).  The point that Cela makes in this book (and in other places) is that the cause and
the war were nothing as romantic or driven by idealism as we outsiders tend to assume, and once
the Internationalists had gone back to their respective countries and vocations, it was the 
Spanish who had to pick up the pieces (shades of El Salvador?).  The translation is competent,
but I wonder whether the original reads better.  Is there anyone here who's read both?

The book by Garcia-Marquez is on Simon Bolivar.  Fascinating book, though not being very familiar with
Bolivar's life, it was difficult for me  to separate facts from the impressionistic picture that
Marquez weaves around the legend of Bolivar.  

If you've started looking for Summer reading, I'd recommend both.



Kishore Sengupta
Naval Postgraduate School.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Subject: read any good books lately?
Organization: Yale Haskell project
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:54:37 GMT

This newsgroup has seemed kind of slow lately.  Is everybody too busy
reading books to post here any more?  :-)  What have you all been
reading?  

On my own stack lately: Patricia Cornwell's "Body of Evidence" (a good
read, finally out in paperback), the new F. Paul Wilson novel (not as
good as "The Keep"), Trollope's "Orley Farm" (average Trollope), an
obscure tome on "Underwater Warfare in the Age of Sail" (early
submarines), and "Around the World on the Kamchatka, 1817-1819" (a
Russian view of the rest of the world).

-Sandra
From: kmuch@prg.ox.ac.uk (Kathleen Much)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The galosh
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:11:33 GMT
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences

In article <1992Apr13.160718.13240@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>I have just checked the online OED. They give galosh 75 lines! Quotes
>begin with Langland's *Piers Plowman* and one of Chaucer's *Tales*. For
>the modern meaning (overshoes made of india-rubber or gutta percha --
>don't you love the slightly musty OED?) they quote Carlyle and Thackeray.
>They do add 'rare in U.S.'. The quotes are theirs, as tho' there is
>something slightly negligent in netioning transAtlantic usage.
>
>I have ordered overshoes here in the States, and got what i wanted.

I haven't worn any of these things for more than 30 years, but I grew
up wearing galoshes in Houston, Texas, and it wasn't until later that
I heard them called "overshoes" or "rubbers" (yes, "rubbers" in Texas)
or "rubberboots" (note elision in pronunciation). "Galoshes" certainly
wasn't rare in my part of the US.
Kathleen Much
kmuch@comlab.oxford.ac.uk
also reachable at kathleen@casbs.stanford.edu
From: Rob.vanGerwen@phil.ruu.nl (Rob van Gerwen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Who is Elia Kazan ?
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:21:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Dept. of Philosophy, Univ.of Utrecht

In article <1992Apr9.105503.25895@email.tuwien.ac.at>, root@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (System PRIVILEGED Account) wrote:
> 
> 
>  Recently I bought a paperback-novel 2nd hand "The Assasins" by some Elia Kazan.
> I know that name from somewhere. As there's no "About the Author" in that book,
> I'd like to know what other books Mr. Kazan wrote. Something deep in my memory
> tells me he's connected with movies ( Is he a director ?)
> 
>
He is a director.
If my memory serves me right he has made several movies with Marlon Brando,
 e.g. On the Waterfront. 

Rob van Gerwen
Dept. of Philosophy
Utrecht University

"Christianity is Platonism for the people. 
Platonism is opium for philosophers"
From: matt@physics16.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:21:52
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics16.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: cr@jab.tucson.az.us's message of 11 Apr 92 01:57:02 GMT

In article <RHk2iB1w164w@jab.tucson.az.us> cr@jab.tucson.az.us (clint ruoho) writes:

> There in no reason why the "holocaust" should not be debated.  The 
> possibility does exist, that these revisionist historians like Arthur Butz 
> are correct in their assertions.  I am not God, and thus, I do not know the 
> answer.
> 
> In my heart, I am neutral on this issue, and I would really like to read an 
> appropriately balanced view of the "holocaust" which takes Revisionst 
> theories into account.

Would you also like a balanced account of whether or not the American
Civil War happened?  How about a balanced account on whether or not
the state of New Hampshire exists?  Or does this "neutrality" only
come into play when Jews are involved?
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7961 alt.cyberpunk:2084
From: wood@jfred.siemens.com (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Gibson's new book
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:03:58 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books

m13079@mwunix (Mary Anne Walters) writes:

>Forgive me if I am a bit behind the curve on this, but I just read about
>William Gibson's new book _Agrippa_ (the Book of the Dead).  I understand
>it is going to be published on disk, with a virus that prevents it from
>being printed out.  Any other news on this? What do people think of this
>idea?

As a sidenote, is this the *same* William Gibson who wrote the play
"The Miracle Worker," about Helen Keller and Annie Sullivan, back in
the late 1950's?

Jim Wood [wood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
  "Even if complaints about man-bashing in this film were 99% true, it still
   wouldn't make up for the years of portraying women as bimbos in movies."
     - Geena Davis, about "Thelma & Louise"
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 11:54:52 EDT
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
 <1992Apr7.204500.35828@dante.uucp> <1992Apr8.000306.10825@husc3.harvard.edu>

This topic as it has been pursued for the past week or more has
nothing to do with rec.arts.books.

Why not edit it out of the subject line.

Jack Carroll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Magic Realism
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:28:44 GMT

Would it be fair to say that The Bible was one of the great early works
of Magic Realism?
From: bon6@quads.uchicago.edu (rahul  bonner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: If all humanity had one throat ...
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:42:51 GMT
Reply-To: bon6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Mar24.205015.16099@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>
>"I wish everyone in the world had a single throat, and I had my hands
>around it."
>
>Can anyone recall where this quotation, or something similar to it,
>originated?
>
>---Mike


Suetonius, writing about Caligula:

      The Knights earned his constant displeasure for spending
      their time, or so he complained, at the play or the Games.
      On one occasion the people cheered the team he opposed; he
      cried angrily: 'I wish all you Romans had only one neck!'

                  Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, _The Twelve
                  Caesars_, tr. by Robert Graves, Penguin
                  Classics, p. 169.


                                -- Rahul
From: yms@pacer.cis.ufl.edu (Yuh-Ming Shyy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:45:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.


In article <1992Apr6.225452.29417@cs.yale.edu> loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore) writes:

>This newsgroup has seemed kind of slow lately.  Is everybody too busy
>reading books to post here any more?  :-)  What have you all been
>reading?  

(1) Immortality - by Milan Kundera 

(2) S. - by John Updike 

(3) Mao II - by Don DeLillo 

(4) A Thousand Acres - by Jane Smiley 

I am planning to read "Outerbridge Reach" by Robert Stone, which 
is the main selection of BOMC (May). 

Yuh-Ming

yms@carp.cis.ufl.edu
From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:52:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr17.005239.11202
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Apr16.192157.718@linus.mitre.org> 
jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.230744.11148@husc3.harvard.edu>,
>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes: 

>> In article <1992Apr15.233632.6419@linus.mitre.org> 
>> jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:

>> >In article <1992Apr13.133700.886@morrow.stanford.edu>,
>> >francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes: 

FM:
>> >> This sounds like Lewis. Most Americans (Statesmen?) don't seem to realize
>> >> just what an assole C. S. Lewis really was. This is a prime example. 

JES:
>> >If being deliberately literal to make a point makes one as asshole, then
>> >I'm one as well.  I would say calling someone an asshole in a public
>> >forum might qualify a person for the label.

MZ:
>> By your own lights, you have just qualified.

JES:
>I beg to differ.  I believe that I stopped just short of committing
>said act.  You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

You may have attempted to stop just short of qualifying for the title, but
your logic carried on inexorably, oblivious of your reticence to proceed
any further.  Unless, that is, you were hedging your bets just so: suppose
you tell me that, in your idiolect, "might" doesn't make right?


`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
: Qu'est-ce qui est bien?  Qu'est-ce qui est laid?         Harvard   :
: Qu'est-ce qui est grand, fort, faible...                 doesn't   :
: Connais pas! Connais pas!                                 think    :
:                                                             so     :
: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
: 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707                                   :
: Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139           (617) 661-8151            :
: email zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu or zeleny@HUMA1.BITNET            :
:                                                                    :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
From: Judith_Beeman@mindlink.bc.ca (Judith Beeman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: VAMPYRE list posted?
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:36:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.11282
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Say...did that guy ever post a list of the Vampyre books he was collecting
through the net? I missed it if'n he did. thanks, j.

judith_beeman@mindlink.bc.ca

Yeh, Vancouver, British Columbia! Coming this way for summer vacation? Pop by
for a coffee and we'll set you up with this towns bookstores, et al. Mrs. B.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books