HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Novell bought USL?
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:02:19 GMT

In article <16053@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
>>Anybody know a good admin book for Windows NT?  :-(
>
>As opposed to the OS discussed in this group, i.e. Netware NT? :-) :-) :-)

Haven't seen any discussions of that, just Unixware, which adds an IPX
interface allowing someone to connect to a NetWare server, while removing
the man pages, compiler, and probably a few other things.

>(Are you saying that a Novell-owned USL will, in some way, not handle
>UNIX as well as an AT&T-owned USL is doing?  If so, how?  And why?)

AT&T/USL has simply been bumbling fools regarding marketing and future
development paths. Novell is in the position of taking over an active
competitor. I expect the functionality to drop drastically, with the
price skyrocketing.

Why? Why else? To force the market to NetWare.

I've posted at greater length in comp.sys.novell.

-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Data sheet: HSN-3000 Nuclear Event Detector. The [NED] senses the gamma
radiation pulse [from a] nuclear weapon." As if we wouldn't notice...
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.sys.novell
From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Novell bought USL?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:03:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.033404.11512@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:

>Unixware does not provide DOS-type networking support (IPX/SPX) as a
>server; only as a client (always possible that I missed something, though).

This seems slightly insane to me.  The obvious place for a unix machine
in a PC network is a server where one has the ability to log in over
the network to run unix if desired but the normal mode of operation is
to run off the shelf PC applications with the unix machine handling the
shared disk space and printers.  This gives you the usual unix communications
capability (nfs, uucp, mail, etc. among similar machines), the ability
to perform backups at the server, and the ability to dial in to access
your mail and files remotely, all as part of the base package.  If you
need special print filtering you can write a normal unix program to
do it instead of an NLM. The various forms of lanman/X give you this.
If you can log into a unix machine over the network (especially if it's
the place where your network files are stored), why do you need one on
your desk? 

Les Mikesell
  les@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
From: sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:27:21 GMT

In <Bzqv2E.Ln8@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:

>In article <id.0R2W.M24@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>>let them rip. You think UNIX can handle that? When you can stick the machine
>>on a showroom floor, unmonitored, with the root password taped to the monitor
>>without having to reload it every day *then* it's ready.

>You can't do this with DOS, either.  It's just as easy to type "del
>c:\command.com" as it is to type "rm /vmunix".

 Just for fun, I did this.

 del c:\command.com

 Insert the appropriate "Oh %*^(, why'd I do that?"

 And which point you type:

 undelete c:\command.com

 And off we go again...

-- 
sheldon@iastate.edu                Steve Sheldon
Project Vincent                    ICSS Resource Unit
SCO ODT, Arc/Info, Atlas GIS       2142 Agronomy Hall
                                   Iowa State University
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re: adding SWAP after the fact...
Date: 1 Jan 1993 21:04:11 -0500
Organization: The Programmers' Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI
NNTP-Posting-Host: mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us

In article <C06q73.736@shyguy.lonestar.org> bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org (bob myers) writes:
>Anyway, how do i now add in a swap file to take care of the problem?
>I know how to create one on a Sun Sparc running BSD (SunOS 4.1.2), but
>it's not all that clear on how to do it here under a SVR4 system.

Use "dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/swapfile bs=10k size=xxx" with the
appropriate size paramater to create the swap file.  Then, do "swap -a
/path/to/swapfile 0 size_in_512_blocks" as root.

I'd be careful running without a swap partition, though.  When SVR4
panics, it dumps a core image of the kernel into the swap partition.
I'm not sure what happens without a swap partition, but it might well
just overwrite whatever filesystem is there...

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "Of course, in order to understand this you
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   |  have to remember that the nucleus of the atom
                            |  is squishy."
                            |    -W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
From: jack@admin.mport.COM (Jack Craig)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re: EISA disk driver for SVR4
Keywords: EISA SCSI BUSTEK 742
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:00:10 GMT
Organization: Microport Inc., Scotts Valley, CA 95066 US of A

just a thought, microport has(i think ) added enhanced mode
support in a new generic scsi layer. call rex core(or email)
for more...

mport.com!rex

jack...
=============================================================================
 Jack Craig  Microport         SVR4 408-438-UNIX   uunet!mport.com!jack
             Software Horizons SVR3 408-684-1375   uunet!sco.com!blznrzn!jack
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.sysv386
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Will Dell load off a Wangdat DAT?
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:03:31 GMT

In article <BzL0tp.A3H@chinet.chi.il.us>
	les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:

>In article <BzIyEw.IoK@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:

>Were these the compressing or non-compressing drives?  I think the
>Dell distribution comes on a tape for the compressing HP.  

I hope this isn't the issue.

One would hope that a company doing a software distribution on DATs
would use a format workable on as many drives as possible. Since all
drives are capable of non-compressing reads and writes, would this not
be the preferable way to write to a tape, so that the maximum number of
DATs are capable of reading it back?

After all, I don't think that the Dell distribution, even with all its
bells and whistles, would fill a 1.2GB uncompressed DAT tape. So why
bother with the compression?

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:01:03 GMT

In article <sheldon.725555076@pv141b.vincent.iastate.edu> sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:

> Of course the next thing which annoys me is stupid dumb idiotic commercial
>software that wants to install in C:\foo, and only C:\foo.  Why can't I use
>the directories of my PC and install in C:\utils\foo?

Why is this more annoying than the fact that /usr/lib/uucp has to be
where it is, or that uucp always receives under /usr/spool, or that
certain things have to live under /etc?

Les Mikesell
  les@chinet.chi.il.us
From: ovhe@ki.icl.se (Ove Hedin)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re: DNS onSVr4 - already did netconfi...
Keywords: DNS ESIX
Date: 27 Dec 92 22:06:34 GMT
Organization: ICL Data AB, Sweden

nlane@well.sf.ca.us (Nathan D. Lane) writes:

>I am attempting to use a name server with Esix Svr4.0.4.  I added the
>"/usr/lib/resolv.so" after "/usr/lib/tcpip.so" on the lines in the
>/etc/netconfig file that are mentioned in the manuals.  Then, rebooted,
>verified operation with nslookup (gets to name server fine), then tried
>to ping something that was NOT in /etc/hosts hoping it would go to DNS
>to resolv it.  It never appended the domain to the hostname and never
>did a lookup.  I also tried telnet and rlogin, all to no avail.  I have
>the same problem on an Esix Svr4.0.3 machine with generally the same
>configuration.  The name server on one net is an IBM RS/6000 and the
>other is a Sparc running SunOS 4.1.1 (with a patched libc for DNS
>only resolution).  I saw a problem mentioned when using DNS with
>NFS on Sparcs, but that does not seem to be the problem as it is not
>even trying to make the query (and I also thought that if tcpip.so
>was ahead of resolv.so, it would use /etc/hosts first, so my idea
>was to put all of my NFS servers in /etc/hosts - since the NFS servers
>are also DNS servers, it seems to be a good approach).

>Any ideas?  Has anyone gotten thsi to work?

>Thanks in advance.

>-Nathan Lane
>Trico Title Company, Santa barbara, CA
>nlane@well.sf.ca.us
> 

HI , what is in your /etc/resolv.conf ?????


-- * All opinions and questions are my own -----------------------------------
Ove Hedin  Phone +46 (0)31499376 , DOMAIN Address : ovhe@ki.icl.se
X400: I=O ; S=Hedin ; OU1=SWE4701 ; O=ICL Data ; P=ICL ; A=TEDE ; C=SE
--
-- * All opinions and questions are my own -----------------------------------
Ove Hedin  Phone +46 (0)31499376 , DOMAIN Address : ovhe@ki.icl.se
X400: I=O ; S=Hedin ; OU1=SWE4701 ; O=ICL Data ; P=ICL ; A=TEDE ; C=SE
Xref: sparky comp.unix.sys5.r4:1073 comp.sys.novell:10978
From: jack@solucor.uucp (Jacques Gelinas)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.sys.novell
Subject: Re: Novell bought USL?
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:25:10 GMT
Organization: solucorp

DVX and UNIXWARE do X over IPX/SPX and are using a compatible
protocol. Off course they can do X over TCP/IP. In both case
this is an add-on.


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------
Jacques Gelinas (jacques@solucor.uucp)
Maintainer of US4BINR jacques@us4binr.login.qc.ca
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re: Can Sys/V force DTR low or high?
Keywords: DTR
Date: 24 Dec 92 03:37:34 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>     The CBAUD bits specify the baud rate.  The zero  baud  rate,
>     B0,  is used to hang up the connection.  If B0 is specified,
>     the data-terminal-ready signal is not  asserted.   Normally,
>     this  disconnects the line.

Geez, I even forgot about that one.  That one long antedates SV, and
even SIII; I think it goes all the way back to V7, although there it was
done by setting "sg_ospeed" and/or "sg_ispeed" to B0....
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:31:53 GMT

In <BzzGts.4oM@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:

:In article <sheldon.725555076@pv141b.vincent.iastate.edu> sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:

:> Of course the next thing which annoys me is stupid dumb idiotic commercial
:>software that wants to install in C:\foo, and only C:\foo.  Why can't I use
:>the directories of my PC and install in C:\utils\foo?

One reason is the limitation on DOS PATH length.

:Why is this more annoying than the fact that /usr/lib/uucp has to be
:where it is, or that uucp always receives under /usr/spool, or that
:certain things have to live under /etc?

One of the advantages of UNIX is that these things are in the
same place on all systems (well mostly :-) and that I don't have
to spend a day figuring out where it is on every system I work
on.  I can use symbolic links when I need to put something in a
different file system, but I can still maintain the standard
naming conventions.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Xref: sparky comp.unix.sys5.r4:937 comp.unix.misc:4674
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:18:41 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <BzL0F3.9z0@chinet.chi.il.us>, les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:

| You forgot to mention that it formats the HD in the process.  Many people
| would prefer not to have all their existing work wiped out.  I think
| windows would be a lot less popular if it's install procedure worked
| like that.

  Who told you that? I install Dell on machine with an existing DOS
partition and never have any problem. Actually ODT works that way too.

  Of course you should avoid selecting the "use entire disk for UNIX"
option, that does lose your existing work, for sure.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc
From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 06:29:52 GMT

In article <BztuD7.8Mt@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:

>There's a great deal of difference between upgrading from one
>specified version of an OS to another specified version of the same
>OS, and upgrading from some random OS to a completely different OS.

Fine, so why can't you upgrade from the initial release of Dell r4
to the current one?  Or even reinstall the core files without losing
everything you have done?   It wouldn't matter all that much if
there were a simple way to back up your system configuration
and modifications separately from the files that come with the
distribution so you could just dump them back in after an upgrade
or re-install.

Les Mikesell
  les@chinet.chi.il.us
Xref: sparky comp.unix.sys5.r4:922 comp.unix.misc:4655
From: korenek@ferranti.com (gary korenek)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:41:29 GMT
Reply-To: korenek@ferranti.com (Gary Korenek)
Organization: Ferranti International Controls

In article <BzKA05.2Er@gator.use.com> larry@gator.use.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>[...]   All on the same tape, all ready to run
>out of the box.  The only other package to install off floppy is the
>unlimited users upgrade which is distributed on floppy.  For $1295 with
                                                               ----
>everything, it's a deal.
>[...]

Well, $1295.00 plus the cost of the tape drive (+ t.d. interface board?),
assuming tape drive + interface must be purchased to load the tapes.
This is a big out-of-pocket expense.

-- 
Gary Korenek   (korenek@ferranti.com)
Ferranti International Controls Corp.
Sugar Land, Texas       (713)274-5357
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
From: rfg@netcom.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Subject: Debugging C code on SVR4 (was: cc -g problem)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:22:36 GMT

Some time ago, georg@norisc.erls01.siemens.de (Georg Biehler) wrote:

> The bug is in cc,  it produces wrong (or missing) line number information
> for compilation units including files with functions defined in there.
> An example is <sys/stat.h>,  defining stat(),  lstat() and other variants
> or <sys/uname.h>.
> 
> The bug is in generix UNIX SVR4,  even in 4.2.  A (ugly) workaround is
> to include the complete include file in your source file - this makes you
> able to debug the code.

There does indeed seem to be a bug in the production of the DWARF line
number information in generic (unfixed) versions of the standard SVR4
C compiler.  This bug can be *very* annoying, and can make effective
debugging almost impossible (as you are never really sure where you
actually are).

Fortunately, the GNU C compiler does not suffer from this problem.  The
DWARF line number information which it produces is correct (as far as
I have been able to determine) and the DWARF output from GCC is 100%
compatible with the standard SVR4 sdb debugger.  In fact, there are a
few additional obscure cases where the DWARF output produced by GCC
will cause the SVR4 sdb debugger to give answers which are *MORE CORRECT*
than they would be if the same code had been compiled by the standard
SVR4 C compiler.

-- 

// Ron ("Loose Cannon") Guilmette    uucp: ...uunet!lupine!segfault!rfg
//
//      "On the one hand I knew that programs could have a compelling
//       and deep logical beauty, on the other hand I was forced to
//       admit that most programs are presented in a way fit for
//       mechanical execution, but even if of any beauty at all,
//       totally unfit for human appreciation."
//                                              -- Edsger W. Dijkstra
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc
From: etxmesa@eos.ericsson.se (Michael Salmon)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Reply-To: etxmesa@eos.ericsson.se (Michael Salmon)
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:29:02 GMT

In article <1h8cscINNnem@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
|> 
|> In article <something> <somebody> writes:
|> >In <something else> <somebody else> writes:
|> >
|> >:> What is lacking ?
|> >
|> >:The ability to stick a floppy in a brand new computer, turn it on, and
|> >:have it come up running UNIX.
|> 
|> If UNIX were as simple to install and configure as DOS it would be as
|> useful as DOS.

I agree, that is to say not very useful at all. The configuration in
MS-DOS is done at run-time, not at installation time. 

-- 

Michael Salmon

#include	<standard.disclaimer>
#include	<witty.saying>
#include	<fancy.pseudo.graphics>

Ericsson Telecom AB
Stockholm
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 18:07:54 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <Bzs3DL.5BH@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>I installed and updated AT&T 3b2 software from release 2.something
>through 3.2 with release upgrade procedures that took care of things
>like the installed software, uucp setup files, etc.  There are lots
>of things I didn't like about those releases, but the upgrade
>procedure wasn't one of them.  I think there was an option to just
>reinstall the core software into an existing system too. 

There's a great deal of difference between upgrading from one
specified version of an OS to another specified version of the same
OS, and upgrading from some random OS to a completely different OS.
The AT&T software could feel reasonably confident about the file
placement, filesystems, and so forth that it would find.  The Dell
installation has no way of knowing what version of whose software
you're installing over, short of knowing about lots of different
releases of lots of different vendor's software and asking you.  What
about filesystems?  Should Dell's install include an option to upgrade
(in place, of course, without losing data) a s51k filesystem to a UFS
filesystem?  What if I'm running something really old, like IBM PC/IX
v1.1 (System III Unix on an 8088)?

I think I'd rather see Dell -- or any other OS vendor, for that matter
-- working on bugfixes and new features than working on "intelligent
upgrade" functionality for other vendors' OS products.

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "Of course, in order to understand this you
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   |  have to remember that the nucleus of the atom
                            |  is squishy."
                            |    -W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.sysv386
From: bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org (bob myers)
Subject: Re: /bin/mailx -- what's Error 11???
Organization: 3-B Technology
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:02:14 GMT

I've tried what you suggested, about bumping MAXUP in my kernel to
59 (believe the maximum is 60 for my unix).

I still get the same message:

mail: ERROR 11

this is frustrating; don't know what to think now...

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Myers                        | You gotta watch out for those
Shyguy's AT&T SVR4 Unix/Uniboard | shy guys....you never know 
Email:bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org | what they're thinking..:)
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re:    Novell bought USL?
Date: 23 Dec 92 04:14:30 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>  Yes it was in the morning paper, fittingly with the obituaries.

See my comments on the posting asking about Windows NT.  Is there some
reason to believe that a Novell-owned USL will not handle UNIX as well
as an AT&T-owned USL?  (Hint: it's not clear that "AT&T owns Bell Labs,
which employs Dennis Ritchie and company, and Novell doesn't" is a valid
reason.....)
From: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Subject: Re: Novell bought USL?
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:35:12 GMT
	<1992Dec28.033404.11512@sci34hub.sci.com> <16130@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
Reply-To: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Followup-To: comp.unix.sys5.r4
Organization: Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth

On 29 Dec 92 22:18:18 GMT, guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) said:

Gary Weston> NT (from what I've heard) is only being targeted at servers,
Gary Weston> not workstations (high end or otherwise).

guy> NT, from what *I've* heard, is *not* being targeted only at servers
guy> [ ... ]:

guy> 1) DEC and the ACE people (or what's left of them) have been
guy> showing it off on workstationoid boxes;

Olivetti too... DEC actually has shown it off at various times on both
MIPS and Alpha workstations. Olivetti has shown a (fairly buggy) MIPS
workstation, the M700; will surely follow suit with Alpha.

guy> 2) Microsoft has been showing off desktop applications;
guy> 3) a Microsoft spokesperson, as I remember, indicated that they
guy> *do* view it as a desktop OS.

guy> I can believe that they don't expect it to immediately become a
guy> *mass-market* desktop OS, and that they view servers as being *one*
guy> of the initial markets for NT, but I've seen nothing to indicate
guy> that they intend it to be a server OS, henceforth and forevermore,
guy> world without end, amen.

Actually they dearly hope that it will rapidly become the successor to
Windows 3.1; that's why they redid the user interface so that it's
absolutely identical to the crappy Windows 3.1 one (IBM chose to improve
on in in OS/2, and they made a (marketing) mistake), and the WIN16/32
APIs are also "totally" Windows 3.1 compatible.

The Windows NT GUI is so identical to the Windows 3.1 one that it is
actually difficult to discover whether one is using one or the other.

If Windows NT were not meant for workstations it would make absolutely
no sense to insist on a Windows 3.1 user and API interface.
--
Piercarlo Grandi, Dept of CS, PC/UW@Aberystwyth <pcg@aber.ac.uk>
  E l'italiano cantava, cantava. E le sue disperate invocazioni giunsero
  alle orecchie del suo divino protettore, il dio della barzelletta
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.sysv386