HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Bricklaying Techniques
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:31:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <C0pKuJ.37r@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Shaman) writes:

> Whether or not I connect the astral copy to a physical object depends largely
> on where I am performing the ritual.  If I am doing the entire ritual in the
> astral plane, then there is no need for a physical representation.  If,
> however, I am doing the ritual on the physical plane, I might use a clay
> representation of the talisman.  On several occasions, I have molded the clay
> around a small sample of the precious material.  In the case of gemstones, I
> have often mixed the gem's elixir in with the clay.
> The few times I have used the actual materials, I did notice a difference.  I
> was less tired afterward because I expended less personal energy in the ritual.
> I also noticed that the effects were more random.  In cases where I expended
> personal energy, I maintained greater control of the manifestations, due to
> the more intimate connection with the talisman.

This is against my better judgement, because I really think that the 
gadget aspect of magick is ridiculous.  But then again, when I got started 
I thought the gadgets were loads of fun and who am I to interfere with
someone else's fun?

Anyway, when I was getting started I would boil a piece of gold or silver
in wine along with a drop or two of blood.  Then I'd fish my earrings 
out and soak a piece of paper in the wine or mix it with dirt or whatever.
Believe me, when you've stood over a sauce pan with a razor blade for
minutes trying to steel yourself to cut your finger, then you definately 
feel an intimate connection with the talisman.  And you can saute chicken
in whatever is left over.

Dawn
"What if I had PMS all my life, and told you you looked just like Barney Fife,
What if I twisted it in like a knife, Until it made you cry? Until it made
you lie? Would you still love me?"
"What If..." by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: My answers
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:00:39 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:

>>>>>It would be nice to have a set of rules that worked in all 
>>>>>situations, but I haven't yet found any.
>>>> 
>>>>Why do you say it would be nice?  What, specifically, would be nice
>>>>about it?
>>>
>>>Easier.
>> 
>>Yes, you are correct there.  Now, can you define "worked in all
>>situations?"  What criteria would a set of rules have to meet
>>in order to satisfy you?
>
>Get outta here.  I said there is no such thing, so why would I 
>bother with this homework assignment?

I thought you were implying that although there was not such a thing,
you believed that there could be.  I'm still not sure how you define
"[work] in all situations" though.




-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Shaman)
Subject: Re: Bricklaying Techniques
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:25:30 GMT

In article <C0L00s.AJI.1@cs.cmu.edu> drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>
>>I then visualize a small bit of my aura.  I subtly change this bit of myself
>>until it takes on the properties of the material I need.  I use this bit of
>>my aura to construct an astral copy of the talisman for the ritual.
>
>Do you connect this astral copy with a physical object?  Have you used the
>actual metals, and if so, do you find that it works differently when you
>do?  If so, how?
>
Whether or not I connect the astral copy to a physical object depends largely
on where I am performing the ritual.  If I am doing the entire ritual in the
astral plane, then there is no need for a physical representation.  If,
however, I am doing the ritual on the physical plane, I might use a clay
representation of the talisman.  On several occasions, I have molded the clay
around a small sample of the precious material.  In the case of gemstones, I
have often mixed the gem's elixir in with the clay.
The few times I have used the actual materials, I did notice a difference.  I
was less tired afterward because I expended less personal energy in the ritual.
I also noticed that the effects were more random.  In cases where I expended
personal energy, I maintained greater control of the manifestations, due to
the more intimate connection with the talisman.
 


-- 
========  
 I(  )I     David A. Melton                      
 I \/ I     shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu                                        
 I /\ I     Priest, Our Lady of the Hourglass Wiccan Church  
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson)
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence (was: testin' this stupid editor)
Organization: Lysator ACC at Linkoping University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:17:39 GMT

>tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY / T. Conlon?) writes...
>> Anyway, I was wondering how many people can honestly say that they have 
>> had success with invocations, evocations, divinations, etc.
>>
>> All this philosophical maundering, but who can say what they've _DONE_
>> and had or not had success with.

There is a host of reasons for not claiming success in the magickal
department. Here are but a few, I am sure there exist posters who have
other reasons.

We have the professional non-believers. These are the people who
constantly challenge everyone in this group. Most of the time they do
a good job to keep unwanted people out of the group, but sometimes
their flames are unnecessary. That's the way it is with dragons. 

We have the ego problem. If I want to inflate my ego, there are much
easier ways to do so. Especially they don't have the nasty
after-effects, like being challenged by the resident dragon Josh, or
getting in trouble with the next two groups:

The next problem is the physically dangerous one. Religious zealots
who believe you and think that you are drawing down the anger of their
particular god on the whole earth, unless the RZ avenges you. Of
course this problem is more imminent if you live in an area where net
access is common among fanatics. There was a story yesterday (here or
over in alt.pagan) about a pagan whose RZ neighbour made the social
services challenge his right to his children.

Superstitious idiots can also cause problems. For one thing their
mindless adoration of you is a nail in the eye to the RZ. For another
thing, at least I hate to be asked stupid questions by drooling
idiots. The type who doesn't realise that they are made fun of, are
the worst.

Bearing all this in mind, if I want to brag, I really prefer bragging
about sprouting olive seeds over in rec.gardens. By the way, they are
developing their first pair of leaves proper now. :) It all adds up to
this: if you want to find out if something works for you, you have to
try it. The people who read this group for something else than
inspiration, will probably drop out disappointed after a week.

--Ceci

--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Why sheep?"
===================================================================
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Keeping Silence Cont...Or My Perspective
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:04:36 GMT

Peggy mentioned in one of the earlier posts that she didn't
use common archtypes. In a way I agree with her, however I have
usually found that I don't have the vocabulary to express what 
I have done or discovered. The philosophical mauderings (?sp)
are easier to deal with then trying to give a 2 paragraph 
description of what red is to a group of people that have 
different experiences about radiation. The best example
that I have found is pretend that we are talking to a 
another life form that doesn't see the same band of light that
we do. Say they see infrared. They could say something like
that thing we call a tea kettle is "pokal" which to them
may mean light-gray or warm. We see a white color. The next
time we see a white ice cube we are going to have a communication
break down because it isn't "pokal" or warm.

I can try to tell you that I used to visualize a mentor
a woman whose face I never really saw. I would go to her
and she would encourage me or help me out when I needed it.
But this implies that I controled the visualization to 
a large extent and just contacted another being.
However, after I did not use or need this technique for a few
years I tried it again just to see what would happen.

I found myself on the other side this time looking at
a young girl who needed help. How did this get into
my visualization? Actually though I don't consider it
a visualization, but I do... I can't really explain it.

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: What new innovation, software or products d
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:36:00 +0000



>How about an AI program to weed out, automagically, all the >>>>>>>>>>unwanted adver
tisements coming
>  from automatically posted nonsense to world wide unix bbs'?

How about an AI program to send rude notes to people who create 
enormously long lines in usenet postings:-

YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST "GETS()". YOUR GONADS WILL BE AUTOMAGICALLY 
TRUNCATED!
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: aborticfacients
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:03:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1993Jan10.021856.22831@samba.oit.unc.edu> Laura.Gowdy@launchpad.unc.edu (Laura Gowdy) writes:
>
>	Thyagi and Eddie are being very canny, and officially legal, but I
>think even Eddie is pushing the boundary between helpful and, well, not
>helpful.  He can't post dosages.  Most books won't print them.  I suppose

Gee, I guess I was tired. ..I don't Know the approximate amounts for a "dose".
Try "Spiritual Midwifery", I forget the author.  It can be figured out, I know,
I just don't remember exactly where.  One suspects that the German 
pharmacopaedia (no English translations that I know of, icckky) might have it.
They're Real Good at stuff like that. 

			-eddie
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 14:23:37 EST
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay)  writes:

> One more time (with feeling!): what about we who are beginners?  It may
> be easy to forget when you are standing on the uppermost parapet gazing
> into the deep celestial azure, but the mystical tower is made of BRICKS!
> And to those of us laboring over the foundations of our own towers
> proper bricklaying techniques are of paramount importance.

Well, Mike, I try to answer my share of direct and specific questions, 
when I see them. Often weeks will go by without my seeing anything that I 
would consider a direct and specific question.

Since I'm a very unusual 'magickian' in the first place, I also tend to 
see many 'ordinary' questions about magickal practice as 'imaginary 
questions'-- that is, as questions to which I can't give a real answer. 
There's a _huge_ amount of nonsense that is attached as baggage to 
magickal training. I generally ignore the many 'imaginary questions'.

I also ignore most of the questions that could easily be answered with a 
little reading, study, and thought. "Learning how to learn" is one of the 
basic skills a magickian must master-- I'm doing no-one a favor by 
depriving them of the priviledge of learning for themselves.

The above caveats aside, I'm always actively looking for 'up-and-coming' 
and serious beginners, and hoping they will ask real questions to which I 
can give real answers.

Later, Bill
From: roger@uvmark.uucp (Roger MacNicol)
Subject: punctiliar
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 19:23:19 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

Please could some kind soul provide a dictionary definition of
punctiliar; it's not in the concise OED or Websters Collegiate.

I recently read the phrase "punctiliar moments in history" and I know
what the author is getting at, but there must be a more elegant way
to express this - anyone?

- Roger


-- 
******************************************************************
* Roger MacNicol, Snr. Software Engineer
* VMark Software, Inc., 30 Speen Street, Framingham, MA 01701-1800
* email: uvmark%roger@merk.com
From: jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: English N. Sg. w/Pl. Agreement
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:36:29 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I just posted a comment in which I wrote:
: In the Constitution (1783) we have

Aagh.  Mistype for 1787.
-- 
Fr. John Woolley (jww@evolving.com); vastly enthusiastic about Augustine,
Austen, babies, Bach, backgammon, baseball, beer, the Bible, Botticelli, Burke,
Chesterton, Dante, Dixieland, hardboiled, Hitchcock, Dr Johnson, Latin, Mozart,
Shakespeare/de Vere, St Teresa, Tolkien, Trollope, Fats Waller, and Washington
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: a.u.e. FAQ (was Re: Speaking of mathematics...
Summary: My New Year resolution this year is to try to suffer fools gladly...
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:18:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.172915.13689@bnr.ca> baril@bnr.ca (David Baril) writes:
:In article <1993Jan7.042510.10712@csi.uottawa.ca> misrael@csi.uottawa.ca (Mark
:Israel) writes:
:>
:>   Thank you; I will mention this in the FAQ.
:>
:>> Where is the FAQ anyway?  How long have we been hearing about it?
:>
:>   Too long, and I'm sorry.
:>
:>
:>misrael@csi.uottawa.ca			Mark Israel
:>Sunbeams brightly play, where Fancy's fair pavilion once is pight.
:>
:
:An "a.e.u" FAQ?  I've been reading the group off and on for a couple of
:months now and this is the first I've heard of it.  Please advise.

1) it's a.u.e
2) Mark Israel above just said, if you can read, that he's writing it and
   it's on its way.

G
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: misrael@csi.uottawa.ca (Mark Israel)
Subject: Re: 'Professor' in Canada - what does it mean?
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:40:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.105025.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) writes:

> In response to somebody else's question: I'd say that Graham's
> correspondent was being exceptionally pretentious.  How many of us
> bother to put titles in our signatures?

   Have you never seen a woman use "(Mrs.)" or "(Miss)" in her
signature?
 
> Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
> (who is known as "Professor Moylan" to people who delight in
> playing with red tape; as "Doctor Moylan" to people who are trying to
> sell me something; and as "Peter" to everyone else.)

Q.  What was the question, the answer to which was "Dr. Livingstone, I 
    presume?"?

A.  "What is your full name, Dr. Presume?"

misrael@csi.uottawa.ca			Mark Israel
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: chaps
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:50:01 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1993Jan4.183114.6696@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum) writes:

# I'm a big fan of women's basketball, and its quite common to refer
# to the other team as "these guys" or "those guys".

Hmmm.  I can do that too, but it's kind of a special case, I'd say.

At a party, could you say "Ask the guys out on the porch if they want
to order a pizza" if you knew only women were on the porch?  How about
"See if those guys want to kick in on a Christmas party" at the
office, pointing at two women?

These don't work for me, and I don't think I've ever heard them.  But
it wouldn't surprise me if "guys" were progressing in that direction.
I distinctly remember the shock of hearing "you guys" for the first
time in my life when I went away to college in 1959, so apparently the
town I grew up in, in Massachusetts, wasn't using it at that time.

David Johns


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: raph@panache.demon.co.uk (Raphael mankin)
Subject: Re: Is it proper to use CONTRACTIONS in letters,resumes,etc.? 
Distribution: world
Organization: Solvfield Ltd.
Reply-To: raph@panache.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:34:26 +0000

In article <1iobbuINN1jd@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> bubai@matt.ksu.ksu.edu writes:

>I had a question about whether it is proper to use contractions (that is
>I've, I'm, etc.) in official correspondence, personal statements, resumes
>and other statements.
>
>Would appreciate any input on this.
>

It's a question of how formal you feel you need to be: a matter of register
not of correctness. That is, assuming that you know the difference between
your/you're, its/it's, whose/who's, their/there/they're.

Now, to digress somewhat.

In general, I have a tendency to call a space a ruddy shovel, so I would tend to
use personal forms ('I', imperatives) in technical reports where tradition 
is to use impersonal, or impersonal passive forms. For instance, I would write
	[I suggest that you ] do this that or the other.
and not
	It is recommended that this that or the other is done.
My objection to the impersonal form is that it is not clear whether it is a 
recommendation by the author or a reference to a third party's recommendation.
In the latter case, we need to know who originated the recommendation; and in
both cases we lack a motivation.
--------------
Raphael Mankin			Nil taurus excretum
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: peter.churchill@rose.com (peter churchill)
Subject: Re: Concertise   2/ 2
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:38:42 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-11-93 16:23
Continued from previous message.

places is equally effective in all places.  

It would appear that `discrimination' now has such negative 
connotations that to be discriminating in the usage of English is 
reduced to mere affectation. The dogged determination of some word 
mavens to admit the use of anything to everything reminds me of the 
dogged pursuit of joy by the old trollop who would let anything in 
merely for the sake of having it there.

I much prefer the Rhealistic approach to these matters.

*PC*       <peter.churchill@rose.com> -- just far enough out of 
                                         Toronto

 
---
   RoseReader 2.00 P001013: Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship.
   RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: peter.churchill@rose.com (peter churchill)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Concertise
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:35:02 GMT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-10-93 12:29

wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk recants:
> Many of you will no doubt recall the anguished gnashings of teeth we had last
> year about the word `concertize' (or `concertise'). I asserted that it was not
> a British word, nor even an English word if it comes to that. I hereby 
> announce that I was wrong. Unfortunately. David Mellor, former British Minister
> of Heritage (everything from music to old buildings) in his Guardian column
> today used it of the new Scottish Opera Orchestra, formed by an amalgamation of
> the BBC Scottish Orchestra and the Orchestra of Scottish Opera. As well as
> accompanying opera, it will apparently also record and concertise. I still
> think the word's ugly, though.
> -- 
> 
> Stephen Wilcox            

I was no less dismayed and disbelieving than were you when that word first 
appeared in the newsgroup. In more than 40 years of writing -- mainly as a 
journalist -- I had never (D.G.) come across that graceless, dissonant, 
even barbaric construction. My dismay was complete when I immediately found 
it in my dictionary.

As I remember, much of the anguished gnashing of teeth concerned not so 
much its existence as its usefulness. Even though the word, in the lexical 
sense, may be legitimate,  the very fact it caused gnashing says something 
about its usefulness. I will never use it, and do not wish it used upon me. 
I imagine there are those in the business of making golden purses out of 
the public ear to whom the word may be useful in that it allows them to 
write only one word in the place of two. But I am sure their interest in 
music is far different from mine, i.e. the logistics of transporting bass 
viols and timpani or the enhancement of box office receipts vs. the actual 
pleasures of music itself.

Fowler probably puts his pen on the particular offensiveness of 
"concertize" to the general ear when he comments: "Most verbs in -ize are 
inelegant. Sir Alan Herbert has compared them to lavatory fittings, useful 
in their proper place but not to be multiplied beyond what is necessary for 
practical purposes." 

I have much the same reaction to the word "prioritize" -- both the first 
and the last time I shall write the word myself although, alas, not the 
last time I shall see it. What sometimes seems forgotten here is that 
simple correctness of grammar no more ensures good writing or usage than 
mere legality invariably produces justice.

---
   RoseReader 2.00 P001013: Once a word has escaped, it cannot be recalled.
   RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: TSOS@uni-duesseldorf.de (Detlef Lannert)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Spotted: "nonstopping"
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:00:39 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet, Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: lannert.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

In article <9301040802.AA03316@MIT.EDU> dks@MIT.EDU (dks) writes:

>    The English language, at least in London, is developing as a result of
>    the spate of bomb alerts affecting the capital. Notices are being put up
>    at London Transport stations to say that "trains are nonstopping" at a
>    particular station. 

This is an interesting new phenomenon. My experience with British Rail
-- Southern Region -- has been that their trains are nonrunning more 
often than nonstopping.

BTW, `hopefully' the trains will at least be stopping at their termini.
--
Detlef Lannert      DC3EK      E-Mail: tsos@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de
"Gedanken sind nicht stets parat,
man schreibt auch, wenn man keine hat."             Wilhelm Busch
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: raph@panache.demon.co.uk (Raphael mankin)
Subject: Re: Any Special Dictionary Just For Verbs' Usages 
Distribution: world
Organization: Solvfield Ltd.
Reply-To: raph@panache.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:36:32 +0000

There is a dictionary of Phrasal Verbs. I've seen it in the shops in London, 
but I don't remember who publishes it.

Many phrasal verbs are just verb+preposition, but many others are quite long
phrases.

--------------
Raphael Mankin			Nil taurus excretum
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: mjw@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Alien)
Subject: Re: Excrement in the English Language
Keywords: scatology, slang
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:08:27 GMT


Somebody wrote that "shat" is Scottish usage not English: I deny it!
I wish to God people would exercise caution before committing
themselves to sweeping statements. There is one hell of a lot of variety
within England let alone all the other English-speaking countries.
My Dad says "shat" and so do I so there!

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: raph@panache.demon.co.uk (Raphael mankin)