HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: Polling results : Canada
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:10:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.011430.1586@cs.sfu.ca> jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews) writes:
>In article <Bv9M75.K4v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu (EVAN pritchard) writes:
>>From the looks of this, BC people are really against this the
>>referendum.  Moreover, more of them have made up their minds about it.
>>Why is this?  
>
>     Because the electorate in BC is BRAINLESS.

are you speaking for yourself?
>
>     Remember that these are the same people that elected the
>Social Credit party time and time again when they knew perfectly
>well they were a bunch of crooks.

I never liked the Socred backroom politics, BUT

at least BC can claim:

lowest tax burden
lowest per capita debt
smaller per capita deficits, the few times there were provincial deficits
better overall economic growth (ontario was riding higher, but they fell
WAY harder)

I'd say BCers are pragmatic. The Zalm's "colorfulness" was tolerable while
things were going well, and there was no obvious evidence of corruption.
When the **it hit the fan, he was booted out (belatedly).

I'll let the Ontarians feel smug about how good their politicians are.
I'll hang my head in shame that BC politicians are so bad, but at least
I have the lower taxes and government debt to console me. And at least
BC's economy is growing in terms of WHOLE positive numbers, compared
to negative or near zero growth elsewhere.
>
>     Feh.
>
>--Jamie.
>  jamie@cs.sfu.ca
>"Every \item command in item_list must have an optional argument." LaTeX pg.168


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  Just another "Enemy of Canada"
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  Say NO/NON to Constitutional
 Electrical Engineering                 |  hegemony and fear-mongering
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  by politicians/scum.
________________________________________|_________________________________
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7011 can.politics:7529 can.general:4664
From: mousseau@paun01.pa.msu.edu (Mike Thorpe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
Subject: Re: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:22:04 GMT
Reply-To: mousseau@paun01.pa.msu.edu (Mike Thorpe)
Organization: Michigan State University



|> Even more to the point; collective rights should be on the negative side
|> (I am especially surprised that Dave would put it as positive - it is
|> anathama to the English tradition of which he is so fond).
|> 
|> BTW, could someone please explain to me how collective rights is different
|> from apartheid.  It seems to me they are just different names for the same
|> thing - you get certain privileges based on what group you belong to.  If
|> you don't belong to the group, you don't get the priveleges.
|> 

	L'idee meme de droit collectif forme la base de la difference
entre le Canada et les Etats-Unis.  Il ne faut toutefois pas meprendre le
droit collectif et le droit des minorites (associe ici plutot cavalierement
avec l'apartheid).  Contrairement a la charte des droits de la personne, le 
droit collectif impose des devoirs a l'individu envers ses concitoyens,
creant ainsi une societe plus egalitaire.  On reconnait que le 'reve americain'
ne peut pas toujours marche et on accepte de partager nos richesses avec 
d'autres qui ne sont pas aussi chanceux.  Le droit collectif reconnait 
donc implicitement que la reussite sociale n'est pas strictement liee aux
qualites personnelles.  

	En fait, l'adoption de la charte canadienne des droits et libertes
m'a toujours deplu.  Jusqu'alors, la societe canadienne avait comme but 
l'equilibre entre les droits individuels et collectifs.  La charte vient 
destabiliser tout ca, comme le montre le recent jugement de la cour supreme
en faveur de la pleine liberte d'expression (publication diffamatoire)
au lieu de la paix sociale.

	Normand Mousseau

	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: viking@bnr.ca (Harold Henrikson)
Subject: Re: The Accord and BC
Reply-To: viking@bmerh66.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 13:26:56 GMT

In article <BvM9pn.5Fu@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, dbowman@gorgon (Don A. Bowman) writes:
|> Stuart Lynne (sl@wimsey.bc.ca) wrote:
|> :
|> : >BC is very unlikely to join the US. Like all Canadians, the people of British
|> : >Columbia are very attached to Health Care. Under US rule, they would be
|> : >unable to have this.
|> : 
|> : Huh??? In Canada and the US health care is mostly a provincial/state 
|> : responsibility with some federal funding. Given back the taxes that currently
|> : flow out of BC we should be able to fund an adequate health care system.
|> : 
|> 
|> Currently Health Care is federally funded through transfer payments. This
|> means that the feds collect the money through income tax, and give some
                                                                      ----
|> back to the province. Under US rule, will BC implement its own provincial
   ----
|> income tax to pay for Health Care? How many voters will vote for a 25% tax
                                                                      -------
|> increase, even if it is only perceived?
   -------- 
|> 
|> --
|> Don Bowman                (519) 744-6154     dbowman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca

Sheesh - make up your mind!
--
Harold Henriksen                    Bell-Northern Research
email: viking@bmerh694.bnr.ca       Ottawa,Ontario,Canada 

Pillaging and plundering were more fun than programming!
(Opinions are not my employer's and sometimes not mine)
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Status Quo
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:26:17 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel

clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart M. Clamen) writes:
>
>Note also that significant national business interests, such as the
>Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Royal Bank of Canada, prefer
>the economic outlook resulting from a YES vote.

Today's "Tech Talk" on CNBC's daytime Financial News Network had an
analysis of the Canadian situation and its effect on our dollar and
on the TSE (down to 3300, projected to flatten at 3000 now) and not 
one mention of any blustering by Mulroney, Yes forces or No side ...
These guys aren't moved by any of that bollocks, just the cold hard
assessments ... no soft stuff.

Heck, as people, they'd probably guess that Mulroney is Labour and 
our national capital is Toronto!  Such is financial analysis ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
From: irwin@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Irwin David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Questionnaire/Survey
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:08:56 GMT
Distribution: qc
Organization: Universite de Montreal


					Montreal, Fall 1992.

To whom it may concern,

In order to complete a Ph.D. dissertation in the field of political science 
I must verify a certain number of propositions. To do so, I must gather data.
To gather data I must ask people to fill a questionnaire.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If yourself or your parents were born in a country other than Canada you| 
qualify as a respondent. You must also be a resident of the province 
of Quebec.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wish to receive a copy of the questionnaire or further details, please 
send me a message or provide me with a postal address. You should expect the
questionnaire to arrive via Canada Post within the week. 

P.S. Thank you to those who have already accepted to participate in the
study.

Regards.

David H. Irwin

Please note: this posting should appear only in the Quebec distribution
area. If you can read this posting outside the province of Quebec, please
disregard it. The survey is limited to Quebec residents. Thanx!

David H. Irwin				E-mail: irwin@ere.umontreal.ca
University of Montreal
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:6924 can.politics:7378
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:35:37 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <Bv9JoL.II0@mach1.wlu.ca> brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u) writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.042735.6614@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>
>>When the Toronto Sun is the only newspaper left in town because the
>>Star is destroyed because it can't hire replacement workers in a
>>strike you might think differently.
>>
>Ah...by any chance, Gerald, is the Toronto Sun your paper of choice? I've
>never seen such a rag in my life. In nearly every article, regardless of
>subject, they will find a way to bash the NDP, the Tories, or the
>Liberals--in short. any party who either does something or does nothing. All
>this in a paper written at a Grade 3 level that incidentally consists of
>around 75% advertising. 
>

It seems to me that my comment is more of a criticism than a complement
of the Toronto Sun.  The Toronto Sun will be the main beneficiary of
the NDP's labour legislation in the Toronto newspaper market, because
the Star will not be able to survive the next strike, because it will
be unable to publish.  Do you get the irony yet?

>
>As far as tuition goes, where do we get the money to cut it or eliminate it?
>Good question I pose to the Net...
>

The NDP is going to raise tuition...even more than it has already...
sorry to disappoint you.

The solution to the funding crisis in higher education is to reform
the way it is financed.  The solution I would advocate is to replace
direct government funding of universities with a student voucher 
system, where any qualified student would be eligible for voucher
to spend at the institution of their choice...the voucher would
be considered a loan which could be paid back by paying back the
loan directly, specified types of service, or through a higher
marginal income tax rate for a period of time.

There would be several advantages to such a system, the most important
being that institutions would have to compete for students to get
their financing, and this would lead to a greater emphasis on
quality teaching...       

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Polling results : Canada
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:25:00 GMT

In article <Bv9M75.K4v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu (EVAN pritchard) writes:
>
>From the looks of this, BC people are really against this the
>referendum.  Moreover, more of them have made up their minds about it.
>Why is this?  
>

Entrenched and significant underrepresentation in the House of Commons
for perpetuity...that will be minor initially and worsen over time.

BC Premier Mike Harcourt can't add and is desparately in need of 
remedial mathematics.

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear)
Subject: Loony Counterfeiters
Summary: Loony Canadian counterfeiters
Keywords: Why?
Organization: Home for the Terminally Infirm
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:32:57 GMT

A change of pace from the October 26 discussions.

I've just returned from a four-week vacation in the Canadian Rockies, an
experience I heartily recommend to all.  But I'm puzzled by one thing.

During that period, I collected several counterfeit loonies.  What I
don't understand is just where the profit is in counterfeiting a dollar
coin.  Is this some quirky Albertan behavior--a reaction to too many
boring drives along Highway 2 from Calgary to Edmonton--or is there a
rational reason for this sort of thing?  Would someone be kind enough to
explain this bizarre activity to a puzzled Merkin, please?
-- 
Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              ekman@netcom.com
Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:6985 can.politics:7470
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:45:18 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:


>The difference is that you must stick that voucher in the hand of the
>student and force the university to interact with the student rather
>than with the government.  Then when a students association goes to
>a university administration and complains about the quality of teaching
>or the size of classed, they will have some clout...they will have their
>vouchers...and will be able to walk away with them.  If the university
>is taking their enrollment numbers to a government bureaucrat for
>numbers, there is no serious threat to the jobs of everyone at the
>university...if half the student body decides to withhold their
>vouchers, the university administration and faculty will take notice.

More than if the students were to move to another university, even if they
didn't have you "vouchers"?  Last time I checked, the number of people in
the university actually had some vague correlation with "enrollment numbers";
I still don't see what difference your silly bits of paper are going to have.
People can vote with their feet under either system.

>I'm essentially talking about privatising the university system...

Well, at least the cards are on the table now.  Just don't confuse this with
standards of education.

peter.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Nothing is free ... (Was: Ontario "socialism")
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:10:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.105105.35478@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>>"4. Token user deductibles of $5-$20 as proposed by Quebec last spring
>>so that folks would go to the pharmacy for a box of bandages (24 for
>>$3.00) rather than go to the doctor.  These would double as a reminder
>>to the patient that the doctor is a fee-paid professional and not some
>>servant at their beck and call ... again, because too many people have
>>been convinced that it's free due to Canadian left-populist ideology
>>or just because they can't add.
>
>I know it will come as a shock to some of the people on the line, but there
>*are* people in Canada for whom $5-20 is not "token".  And I do *not* think
>this is restricted to people on welfare.  To pretend that "token" fees like
>these do not serve as a significant barrier to health care seems to me
>simply wilful blindness.
>

Studies have shown that deterrence fees are not cost-effective...it
is cheaper for people to go the doctor sooner than later.

What we need to do is not have deterrance fees, but make the health
premium or health tax visible...for example: have an N% flat rate 
income tax dedicated to health care funding...and take N% off the
top of every welfare check and UI check as well.

In Ontario, a payroll tax (or a hidden income tax) is used anyway
for example...let's just make it a visible tax so people are aware
of the cost of the system.

Gerald

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: How I'm Voting on Oct. 26
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:21:39 GMT

In article <Bv635s.1IJ@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>
>	Does the  equivalent of witholding one's vote exist for the
>Oct 26 event? I will default to a no vote if the legal text is not
>available and witholding is also not an option.
>

There is no "neither"...spoiling your ballot or abstaining is the
moral equivalent of a yes vote.

They will only count "yes" and "no"...one might figure they might
mention the number of spoiled ballots, but those will be viewed
as a reluctant "yes"...but a "yes" nevertheless.

If you for any reason think this is a bad deal for Canada, there 
the only option is to vote "no".

Gerald
From: mathew@unixg.ubc.ca (Mathew B Englander)
Subject: Copyright (was Re: Royal Bank hypocrisy and the Telecommunications
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:05:54 GMT

Technically it is against the law in Canada to post a newspaper
article without permission. (American copyright law is more liberal,
however, so it may be legal there.)

People who have posted saying "I can't buy the Globe and Mail where I
am" are missing the point of copyright: it applies to everyone, not just
those who are reasonably able to purchase the material from its legal
source.

Anyway, the Globe and Mail does have a daily fax edition anyone around
the world can subscribe to.

Mathew Englander.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
From: alex@animal.Bell.CA (Alex Laney)
Subject: Re: How I'm Voting on Oct. 26
Organization: Bell Canada, Ottawa, Ontario
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:35:40 GMT

Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
: In article <28SEP92.09970283.0063@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
: 
: I would argue that unless you explicitly express opposition to the
: Accord and the process by which it was reached, it is the "moral"
: equivalent of approval of what the politicians are doing.

Yes. And it is profitable. This is the 'Walt Disney'/Ronald Reagan way of
doing business. Outwardly, ignore politics/foist off onto others. But by
focusing instead on 'feel-good' issues, you are supporting the system by not
pushing to make it better. And secretly (unless you are found out) do
whatever insidious stuff you want.

You can push this argument to extremes. Terrorists regularly justify their
actions by stating that no one is innocent.

In a democracy there is an implied agreement that we will all abide by the
rule of the elected representatives of the majority. By not voting, you do
not void the agreement.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: The Accord and BC
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:13:00 GMT

In article <BvM9pn.5Fu@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dbowman@gorgon (Don A. Bowman) writes:
>Stuart Lynne (sl@wimsey.bc.ca) wrote:
>:
>: >BC is very unlikely to join the US. Like all Canadians, the people of British
>: >Columbia are very attached to Health Care. Under US rule, they would be
>: >unable to have this.
>: 
>: Huh??? In Canada and the US health care is mostly a provincial/state 
>: responsibility with some federal funding. Given back the taxes that currently
>: flow out of BC we should be able to fund an adequate health care system.
>: 
>
>Currently Health Care is federally funded through transfer payments. This
>means that the feds collect the money through income tax, and give some
>back to the province. Under US rule, will BC implement its own provincial
>income tax to pay for Health Care? How many voters will vote for a 25% tax
>increase, even if it is only perceived?


Federally funded? And where do you suppose the feds get the money?

BC pays out more tax money than it receives in transfer payments. Your US
example is meaningless because the US tax burden is about 40%, while Canada's
is at least 50%. There'd be no need to raise taxes at all. 
>
>--
>Don Bowman                (519) 744-6154     dbowman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  Just another "Enemy of Canada"
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  Say NO/NON to Constitutional
 Electrical Engineering                 |  hegemony and fear-mongering
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  by politicians/scum.
________________________________________|_________________________________
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Toronto/Ronnie Hawkins
Date: 28 Sep 1992 11:50:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


 Is Ronnie Hawkins (of the Hawks) still running a club in
Toronto? If so where is it and what's it's name?
 Also is King Biscuit Boy still playing out of Toronto?
  Thanks for all the help.....
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:20:02 GMT

In article <BvH3vz.7E4.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>
>New rights for Female senators?  I cannot find that in my copy of the
>Accord?

Well, look at the number of times it has "*"s or "to proceed with an
accord".  Then ask yourself, what the individuals who will create
those accords are saying.  If this deal gets passed, Bob Rae has
already promised 50% Ontario senate seats will be for women.

>And yes, Francophone Senators do have a special voice in the proposed
>Senate.  I am not sure that is can really be termed a "right", though.

Yes, I noticed that too.  Funnily enough, though, I didn't notice
the double majority required for anglophone senators when the issue
pertains to ENGLISH language or culture.  Seems to me, we don't decide
their culture, but they decide ours.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Yes = ? No = ?
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:27:29 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

Without any legal text to support the referendum, YES camp is claiming
that :

YES stops Quebec separatism
YES saves Canada
NO means Quebec secession
NO means Canada end

This with the participation of Guy Lafleur as a star of the YES camp
indicates how low profile is the opinion of the YES camp about the
intelligence of voters.

How can a NO gives Quebec secession while many organisms against Quebec
secession are joining the NO camp?  If those who are involved directly
in the fight of Quebec secession are against the deal, there must be
something wrong, NO?

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste des familles : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Un Quebec renouvele dans une Amerique renovee
\_.-===  Non a une entente au contenu secret      Mon opinion ? Non !
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7057 can.politics:7615