HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mkant+@cs.cmu.edu (Mark Kantrowitz)
Subject: Re: Do we need Text?
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 00:01:30 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul25.053840.26181@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Jerome Chan <yjc@po.cwru.edu> writes:
>  Do we really need text to create a good interactive adventure game? Has
>anyone come across a non-text input based interactive adventure?

Text is not necessarily a prerequisite for good interactive
entertainment. There is nothing inherent in a text-based medium which
yields consistently good stories, and, conversely, nothing prevents
other media (interactive radio drama, interactive animation) from
supporting good stories.

Nevertheless, we shouldn't abandon text interfaces in the pursuit of
interactive entertainment. Adding interactivity to traditional media
such as text, radio, and television produces entirely new media. Good
stories can be produced in any of these media by artists who exploit
the structure of the medium to fulfill artistic goals. For example,
Sarah Sloane's thesis argues that interactive fiction has the
potential for producing more powerful stories than traditional
noninteractive texts. If text didn't die with the introduction of
television, why should it acquire sudden mortality with the addition
of interactivity? 

--mark
From: jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Zork 6, LGOP2...
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:37:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul25.041500.28369@rice.edu> adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton) writes:
>Steve Meretzsky used to have talent.  I hope that he either a) does something
>RIGHT with Zork 6 (6?? 6?? What happened to 4 and 5, or are those Beyond and
>Zero, respectively? (Beyond was kinda lame, Zero WAY cool)) or b) stops
>putting his name on stuff he should be well able to tell is crap.  (Of course
>I don't know if he actually has anything to do w/Z6, just that he's the only
>ex-Infocommie I've seen with a lot of current releases.)

Meretzksy still has talent - look at Spellcasting; however, I'd bet he just
took the bucks for LGOP2. Can't blame him too much for that, but he has
killed the Infocom label.
-- 
John Switzer               | "Gammera is really neat,
                           | Gammera's full of turtle meat, 
74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | We all love you, Gammera."
jrs@netcom.com             | ---MST 3000
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Zork 6, LGOP2...
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:34:04 GMT

Funny; I thought the including of all the classic chestnuts in Zork Zero
(given that it had a moderate number of new, original puzzles) was one of
its strengths.  After all, every good adventurer _SHOULD_ be able to do
the old farmer-crossing-the-river puzzle.

The graphics never got in the way of the gameplay for me either; the
mapping was nice but unnecessary, but since there was no effort to illustrate
the locations, the game was basically a text game.

The official title of Zork 6 is, by the way, _Return to Zork_.  If it's 
something like an Ultima Underworld view of the GUE I'm going to puke.

Adam
-- 
"Man is conceivied in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
From: DTHOMAS@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (David L. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Gamescape help wanted
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:47:02 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

Does anyone know anything about Gamescape?  I came upon
this program recently in a stack of floppies that have
been in the back of a drawer for awhile.  It's a program
that allows you to write your own interactive fiction
games (sortof similar to AGT), and as I remember it
gets points for simplicity, but it also is pretty
limited in what you can do (unlike AGT).  Any info
any one has, a FAQ, or info about an ftp site that
will have more info about Gamescape will be greatly
appreciated!


============================================================================
David Thomas                              Confusion is the state of promise,
University of Maine                       the fertile void where surprise is
Orono, Maine                              possible again.
DTHOMAS@MAINE.MAINE.EDU                            - Paul Goodman
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: pds@lemming.webo.dg.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: Any problems with packaging in LTOI 1 & 2?
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:39:05 GMT
	<40nml5h@lynx.unm.edu>
Organization: NSDD/ONSD, Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

[] Regarding Re: Any problems with packaging in LTOI 1 & 2?;
[] kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:

    kb> BTW, my reason for being so harpish about hints: it isn't that
    kb> I read them all, but it's nice to get that one that I'm stuck
    kb> on.  I do wish that Infocom had encrypted the LTOI book, so
    kb> that I could only get the one I WANTED to, but oh, well, it's
    kb> nice to have it anyway.

Pshaw, the reason *I*'m bummed about the missing hints is that there
used to be other cool things in the hints booklets, like the "Things
To Try" section which pointed out some amusing things to try if you
hadn't already; how the scores were totalled; etc.

I never look at them until after I'm done with a game but sometimes
you get fresh insight from the hints: I've solved some puzzles in some
Infocom games by just sort of stumbling onto the answer, but when I
read the hints I then understand how that puzzle was connected with
the rest of the game.

A serious loss for LTOI II IMHO.
--

                                                                paul
-----
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
| Paul D. Smith                          |    paul_smith@dg.com    |
| Data General Corp.                     | pds@lemming.webo.dg.com |
| Network Systems Development Division   |                         |
| Open Network Systems Development       |   "Pretty Damn S..."    |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: djt2445@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Any problems with packaging in LTOI 1 & 2?
Reply-To: djt2445@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:22:29 GMT

I posted this in rec.games.misc, when I should've asked the
INFOCOMies (grin).

I remember a few posts of what was wrong with the manuals in
the Lost Treasure of Infocom 1.
Can anybody send me a complete list of what was wrong with
the manuals from that anthology?
Also, a similar list would be appreciated for LTOI2.
Also, anything missing that should've been mentioned in either two?
I bought both, but haven't played them yet (too busy
finishing up Gateway)

So, please help out here!

David Tai
djt2445@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: eric@telebit.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: Zork 6, LGOP2...
Organization: Telebit Corporation
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:49:47

>>On 27 Jul 92 15:37:16 GMT, jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) said:
> Meretzksy still has talent - look at Spellcasting; however, I'd bet he just
> took the bucks for LGOP2. Can't blame him too much for that, but he has
> killed the Infocom label.

Hmmm... maybe that was his intent?

Eric
From: gnorton@sunburn.ec.usf.edu. (Gregory Norton (EE))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Lost Treasures II
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:15:08 GMT
Organization: Univ. of South Florida, College of Engineering

I purchased the new Infocom collection yesterday afternoon and discovered
that Activision has decided to make some quick cash by distributing
hints over a 1-900 number at 95 cents a minute.  Am I the only one who
feels taken for a ride over this?
 
If my disgust at this weren't enough, I discovered a coupon at the bottom
of the box that indicates you can obtain by mail the first Leather
Goddesses game, but only if you shell out 10 bucks more.
 
Let's hope Activision dies a horrible and grisly death in the bankruptcy
courts.  Maybe someone who genuinely cares about interactive fiction
will end up with the rights to the games.
 
Gregory S. Norton
gnorton@ariel.ec.usf.edu
From: steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Top Changwatchai)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Do we need Text?
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:55:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.183528.3757@ida.liu.se> thoni@ida.liu.se (Thomas Nilsson) writes:
>neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) writes:
>
>> Of course, if we're on the topic of games with a non-text interface,
>>does anyone remember the Deja Vu, Uninvited and Deja Vu II series of
>>games that ICOM Simulations put out for the Mac a few years back?
>
>> They were a reasonably good implementation of a non-text interface,
>>IMHO. 
>
>I also liked their version of point-and-click user interface much
>better than e.g. that in Leisure Suit Larry. Mainly because you don't
>mix type of input and there is no question about if the game expects a
>typed command in this situation. You've only got the choices listed.
>Of course this made the puzzles somewhat resticted, yes, but still I
>think they managed to create some interesting games.
>
>
>> Anyone know what happened to that series? They stopped after
>>producing four or five games. Not enough money in it? I'd like to see
>>colour games using the same basic interface - could look good!
>
>The series was also available for the Amiga at least (in color!).
>

Leisure Suit Larry and the Quest games by Sierra On-Line aren't a bad example
of graphics-based adventure games (as opposed to text adventures with
pictures, like Zork Zero), although the early ones did require a little
typing, in the form of the ancient VERB-NOUN or PERSON, VERB-NOUN form.  The
latest Sierra adventure games, however, do have a no-typing interface, which I
agree suits this type of game much better.  Lucasfilm's adventures, such as
The Secret of Monkey Island, also have a no-typing interface (and a better
one, in my opinion).

There's also a different level of enjoyment in these graphics adventures,
which I think succeed better when they stress an engaging storyline, good
graphics, and clever humor.  The big appeal of the text adventures was the
challenge of solving the puzzles (although story and atmosphere are still
important).

On another note, I'm interested in writing a text adventure.  Does anybody
have suggestions for how to go about this (at the level of coding and
algorithms)?  (I'm sure this is a FAQ; I'd appreciate it if somebody just
pointed me to the FAQ file, if there is one.)

Thanks,

Top

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Any problems with packaging in LTOI 1 & 2?
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:37:43 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <jcnmfar@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:
Well, a cynic might point out that in LTOI2, not only do they not include a hint
>book, they don't put hints in the games that HAD hints in the package!  (At
>least in _PH_; I'm playing the games on an Amiga and need to wait for a newer
>SW ZIL interpreter to play Sherlock, AMFV, etc...)
>
I just got back fro mplay-testing a few games on an IBM and while some of the
games do have help in the game (Border Zone, Nord & Bert, etc.), two of the
games that I'm completely bamboozled on, Bureaucracy and AMFV, don't.  I guess
that's not _too_ bad.

BTW, my reason for being so harpish about hints:  it isn't that I read them all,
but it's nice to get that one that I'm stuck on.  I do wish that Infocom had
encrypted the LTOI book, so that I could only get the one I WANTED to, but oh,
well, it's nice to have it anyway.


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.misc
From: dmb@wam.umd.edu (David M. Baggett)
Subject: New Unnkulian Games: Status (was Re: Zork 6)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:08:16 GMT

lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius) writes:
>I'd better stick to these Unnkulians then (any news on the new games?).

Thanks for the kudos.  D. A. Leary and I have written (and are working
on) several new games for release this summer and fall under the new
name ADVENTIONS.  In particular, look for _Unnkulia 1/2: The Salesman
Triumphant_, coming to an archive site near you by summer's end.

Other titles include _Unnkulia Zero: The Search for Amanda_ and _The
Legend Lives!_, a science fiction Unnkulian game.  Zero and 1/2 are
both done and are in beta-testing.  Actually both have been done for
quite a while, but we had to switch over to TADS 2.0 because Zero got
too big for TADS 1.2.  TADS 2.0 is still in alpha/beta test, which is
why there's been a bit of a delay.  (BTW, you can't FTP TADS 2.0 yet;
it hasn't been released.)

Also in the pipeline are UU3 and UU4 (which, if things go well, should
be out winter 92 and spring 93 respectively) and _Ulien: In Space No
One Can Smell the Cheez_, the second game in the science fiction
Unnkulian Universe Unventure series.

We'll also be re-releasing UU1 and UU2 with some minor changes.  One
reason for this is that we want everything out there to be running
under 2.0; another is that the existing UU1 and UU2 don't use BIOS text
routines and hence won't work with text readers used by the visually
impaired (though I hate to think how they'd cope with Acme spellings!).
The new versions will, as will all the upcoming releases.

Dave Baggett
dmb@wam.umd.edu

PS> For those of you who have finished UU2, sorry to leave you waiting
    so long with that cliffhanger ending.  We appreciate your patience.
From: lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Zork 6 on the way
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:09:48 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: The few, the proud... the stupid, the inept

Grabbed the best magazine for news (PowerPlay) today in a shop and yeah,
there was this Show-thingy where it said that after the success of LGOP II
Infocom's going to return to GUE with this game... I don't remember whether
it mentioned if it was to be a p'n'c game (I strongly suspect so) and the
author was also unannounced (or I'm just selectively blind).

Oh and Legend is coming up with Spellcasting 301 soon. 
If they're going to rape Zork as a Choose-yer-path game, no fate whatsoever
is good enough for them. I'd better stick to these Unnkulians then (any news
on the new games?).
--
Ville Lavonius	        University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : With friends like that, who needs anemones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Hitchhiker's Guide: curious question
Keywords: Infocom
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:46:12 GMT

What it does is to wait a certain number of turns for an invalid input, and 
then give up and pick a legal one as the triggering phrase of the war if
you haven't given it one.

Adam
-- 
"Man is conceivied in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: eric@telebit.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: Zork 6, LGOP2...
Organization: Telebit Corporation
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:30:57

>>On Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:15:00 GMT, adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton) said:
> Steve Meretzsky used to have talent.  I hope that he either a) does something
> RIGHT with Zork 6 (6?? 6?? What happened to 4 and 5, or are those Beyond and
> Zero, respectively?

Well, if you look at the old Infocom part numbers, Enchanter, Sorcerer, and
Spellbreaker were Zork 4, 5, and 6, Wishbringer was 0, and Trinity and Beyond
Zork were 7 and 8 (I think).  I don't recall Zork Zero having a number in this
series, but it might have been 9.

So where they get Zork 6 for a new game is beyond me.  Maybe they just want
to skip some numbers from the last numbered title (Zork 3).

> (Beyond was kinda lame, Zero WAY cool))

Opinions vary.  I thought Beyond Zork was decent, and Zork Zero sucked.
Zork Zero was full of old, worn-out puzzles like the Towers of Hanoi.  The
graphics was a detriment.

The one thing everyone here seems to agree on is that LGOP2 sucks bigtime.
(although there were probably a few people who liked it and will send me
flames)

Eric
From: ronnie@eddie.mit.edu (Ron Schnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: elisp text adventure posted/archived
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:30:44 GMT
Reply-To: ronnie@eddie.mit.edu (Ron Schnell)
Organization: MIT EECS/ECF Facility, Cambridge Mass



dunnet - an emacs-lisp text adventure has been posted to comp.sources.games,
and gnu.emacs.sources.  I believe at least one of these groups is moderated,
so it might not appear for a little while.  It is currently archived
on archive.cis.ohio-state.edu, and is available via anonymous ftp from
pub/gnu/emacs/elisp-archive/games/dunnet.tar.Z.

It requires gnu-emacs and its associated lisp libraries in order to run.

Mail any questions or comments to ronnie@eddie.mit.edu

#Ron.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Any problems with packaging in LTOI 1 & 2?
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 04:57:59 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <1992Jul26.232229.3930@ultb.isc.rit.edu> djt2445@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>I posted this in rec.games.misc, when I should've asked the
>INFOCOMies (grin).
>
>I remember a few posts of what was wrong with the manuals in
>the Lost Treasure of Infocom 1.
>Can anybody send me a complete list of what was wrong with
>the manuals from that anthology?
>Also, a similar list would be appreciated for LTOI2.
>Also, anything missing that should've been mentioned in either two?
>I bought both, but haven't played them yet (too busy
>finishing up Gateway)
>
Well, a cynic might point out that in LTOI2, not only do they not include a hint
book, they don't put hints in the games that HAD hints in the package!  (At
least in _PH_; I'm playing the games on an Amiga and need to wait for a newer
SW ZIL interpreter to play Sherlock, AMFV, etc...)

Instead, we get a $.95/min PHONE NUMBER for each hint.  Oh, they say that they 
offer a hint book too, for only ... excuse me; I guess you CAN'T buy a hint book
for LTOI2.  I would HOPE that you can get them for individual games, for the
lowlow price of $9.95, lucky us.  All I can say is, to quote Dr. Dave, feh.

Oh well, at least I can get game credit for something else...but I seriously
doubt it'll be that "full-color blockbuster"  Return to ZORK.


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Re: Do we need Text?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:27:09 GMT

 Of course, if we're on the topic of games with a non-text interface,
does anyone remember the Deja Vu, Uninvited and Deja Vu II series of
games that ICOM Simulations put out for the Mac a few years back?

 They were a reasonably good implementation of a non-text interface,
IMHO. They'd have a detailed (well, fairly detailed given that they
only ran in B&W) picture of your surroundings in the middle, available
exits to the right of the screen, a brief text description at the
bottom and a series of buttons on the top. The buttons were the verbs
- open, consume, operate, speak, etc. So to unlock a door you'd click
on a key, click on Operate and then click on the door. To pick
something up you'd simply drag the object you wanted out of the "room"
window and drop it into your inventory window; a window which had both
"Clean Up" and "Mess Up" commands.

 The games also had digitized sound to spice things up a bit. They
weren't bad, really. I felt, however, that they were a bit limited in
terms of things you could do. I mean, "Operate" is a pretty generic
verb. Give me a good Infocom parser interface any day!

 Anyone know what happened to that series? They stopped after
producing four or five games. Not enough money in it? I'd like to see
colour games using the same basic interface - could look good!

 - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Zork 6 on the way
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:59:15 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <LAVONIUS.92Jul24180948@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius) writes:
>Grabbed the best magazine for news (PowerPlay) today in a shop and yeah,
>there was this Show-thingy where it said that after the success of LGOP II
>Infocom's going to return to GUE with this game... I don't remember whether
>it mentioned if it was to be a p'n'c game (I strongly suspect so) and the
>author was also unannounced (or I'm just selectively blind).
>
>Oh and Legend is coming up with Spellcasting 301 soon. 
>If they're going to rape Zork as a Choose-yer-path game, no fate whatsoever
>is good enough for them. I'd better stick to these Unnkulians then (any news
>on the new games?).

I've been heavily bitching on CompuServe about LGOP2 (among other things), and
received a reply from an Activision rep who said Return to Zork would be 
"totally different from LGOP2 - it'll have a lot more puzzles." He said that 
LGOP2 was intended for a Leisure Suit Larry audience, but that RtZ would be
for the mature Infocom audience.

Yeah, right - in any case, I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not buying 
any more Infocom games except for LTOI2.
-- 
John Switzer               | "Gammera is really neat,
                           | Gammera's full of turtle meat, 
74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | We all love you, Gammera."
jrs@netcom.com             | ---MST 3000
From: moocow@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: KC piercing and tattooing
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:11:48 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Can anyone recommend a good, clean place to get a nipple pierced in the
Kansas City area?  Also, any info on places in this area that do good
Celtic and tribal tattoo designs would be appreciated.

Thanks!
From: af1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alan S. Ferrency)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: tat gun question
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:40:15 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hello.
Can anyone explain specifically how a tattoo gun works, or how it's constructed?

I haven't seen one close up (like, I can inspect it closely and turn it around
in my hands), but it seems to have two solenoid/relay type things on it which
make the needle move in and out.  I couldn't tell if they were solenoids or
relays though.  Does the needle move out at the rate of the AC current (like,
60Hz here or 50Hz in parts of Europe) or what?

Also, I haven't seen needles close up either.  I understand they have 1, 3, 5,
or however many needles, in a row, kind of like a comb, to make a wide line.
What keeps this line of needles from acting like a calligraphy pen- so the line
doesn't change width depending on which direction you're "drawing" in?

Thank you very much for the info...

-me