HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:41:15 GMT

buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:

>>buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes a pretty damned good summary of
>>a history of discrimination in the American military, but misses one
>>*very* interesting case.

>>1921:	Franklin Roosevelt is felled by polio and never walks again.

>I was wondering when this happened...My grasp of US History is pretty fuzzy.
>Was he already pretty prominent in politics at the time?

Yes.  By 1921, FDR had served as a state senator in New York (1910-1913),
Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Navy (1931-1921) under Woodrow Wilson, and
was the Democratic nominee for Vice-President in 1920.  He and the Presidential
nominee, James Cox, lost to Republicans Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge.

He was also well-known because he was the cousin of former president Theodore
Roosevelt.  Furthermore, he made a splash in the public eye when he married
Teddy's niece Eleanor in 1905, and Uncle Ted gave the bride away.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.activism
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: GOP Con: McClendon Claims AIDS Cover-Up, CIA Blackmail of Gays
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:15:52 GMT

bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr) writes:



>For those who don't know, Ms. McClendon is a journalistic icon
>renowned for her access to inside information.  She made a number
>of pro-gay comments during the show so it isn't as if she had a
>hmophobic motive for her claims.  Normally, I would consider her to
>be a highly reliable source of information.  She also claimed,
>however, that the entire 12 years of Reagan/Bush administration
>has been a CIA operation, citing the INSLAW case, October Surprise,
>and sources she wouldn't name.  I'm not overstating her answers;
>that's actually what she claimed.  She claimed that the CIA is
>blackmailing members of Congress with proof that they have had gay
>encounters and that a number of prominent Congressmen (Hyde,
>Solarz, and Boren) are in the CIA's pocket.  
Hyde? As in Henry Hyde, author of the Hyde Amendment, which precludes the
Federal Government from spending any money on abortion services?

Ewwwwwwww! We don't want 'em! :-)

>If she wasn't a bedrock, albeit avowedly liberal, member of the
>press, and if she hadn't cited a number of interlocking personnel
>moves and testimony that is already public record, I would have
>thought she was off her rocker.  Look for a repeat and make your
>own judgements.
Welll, it should be interesting to see what alternative and then mainstream
papers pick up this story. I can see the VILLAGE VOICE headline now... :-)
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"Making love and music are the only things worth fighting for..." - Prince.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Public displays
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:47:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep3.164732.19690
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Sep03.143012.23610@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) heartlessly says:
>>jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) kindly says:
>>Look, I was *born* in Kansas--I *know* Kansas, and hon, you're no Toto.
>that's ok.  i think you're a strawman.

I see you haven't gotten the wizard to give you a heart yet, eh Jake?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   You're free, so anything could happen, so happy birthday
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:09:13 GMT

buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes a pretty damned good summary of
a history of discrimination in the American military, but misses one
*very* interesting case.

1920:   Franklin Roosevelt, as Assistant Secretary of the Navy under
	President Woodrow Wilson, authorizes a sting operation whereby
	young recruits sexually entice Naval officers and civilian
	cronies suspected of running a homosexual ring in Connecticut.
1921:	Franklin Roosevelt is censured by the full Senate for encouraging
	young recruits to perform "unspeakable acts."

oh, and for a little justice ...

1921:	Franklin Roosevelt is felled by polio and never walks again.
1922:	Eleanor Roosevelt meets influential lesbians Nan Cook, Marion
	Dickerman, Esther Lape, and Elizabeth Read.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: soc.motss statistics for August 1992
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 01:47:00 GMT


In article <1992Sep2.003538.29809@queernet.org>
rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A.  Klorese) writes:

>In article <1992Sep1.190952.1417@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>Oh I just get all *shivery* when KKruella waxes wroth!

>Imagine how Wroth feels...

	<SNAP!!>

<> The greatest happiness you can have is knowing that you
<> do not necessarily require happiness. -- William Saroyan
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Comics: Kudzu of 9-1-92
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:39:14 GMT

John looked at the comics this morning, looked up, and said, "What's
going *on* in Kudzu this week?"

Tuesday we had Nasal wishing he were "so handsome everyone would think
I was gay." Today we have the Preacher in his role as marriage
counselor:

1.
Woman: I feel so humiliated, Preacher!... I want a divorce!

2.
Woman: My husband left me for another man!
Preacher: I see...

3.
Preacher: Irreconcilable similarities.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 15:03:12 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: more kind words of compassion from an evangalist...

and, when you think about what he's saying in less judgemental
terms, he's also quite right.  leave their husbands?  certainly,
if he's a jerk and they want to.  kill their children?  i'm sure he's
talking about abortion.  practice witchcraft?  sure.  goddess worship
is good, Wicca is good, why not encourage it?  become lesbians?  well,
as kate clinton says, we DO want the best for people!  socialist?
hell, ANY decent person is by his definition a socialist.

                                        -ailsa
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too staright looking to be gay
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:18:41 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <1992Sep03.185650.28003@microsoft.com>,
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

> The most excitement this soc.
> group has had in a long time
> [...]

That's a joke, right?

--John
--falling asleep at his terminal
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: csjgp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jim Pierson)
Subject: Re: The Stockholm Syndrome
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:35:07 GMT

Bravo, Frank!!!!!!!!  (or should that be "Brava!!!!!!"?
Noone could have said it better!!


Jim
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Buck Rogers (was: research on the gay male voice)
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:12:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug23.211246.19295
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug23.192039.2626@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>I refuse to stand by and hear the movie Flash Gordon maligned. That is
>one of the most *fun* movies I have seen in a long time.

It gets more use than a lot of my porn videos.  Laser disks are so nice
when it comes to freeze frame...

>And it does have Brian Blessed (hmm, maybe I do have a bear affinity..
>weird). Brian Blessed shows up in the strangest shows - he was in one
>of the Colin Baker Dr. Who episodes.

And "High Road to China" (Selleck vehicle) as an Afghan leader, and
"Black Adder I" as the King, and Branagh's film of Henry V as someone
I don't remember, I Claudius as Augustus (but he's clean-shaven, feh)
and (what else????).

I've never seen him on Dr. Who, mainly because I can't stomach watching
more than 3 minutes of any individual episode to see if he's in it just
to satisfy my passion for the man.  I have to draw the line somewhere.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Researcher coming to Berkeley
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:33:58 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

[I post this with some trepidation:
I don't *know* the woman on whose behalf I'm making this request,
except that a good friend put her in contact with me.
I'm sure her motives are friendly,
but I don't know how much, um, background she brings with her...]

An (Australian) linguist
(or sociologist? or psychologist?  Damn, I've forgotten!)
called Marie
is about to go to Berkeley (California),
where she'll be doing research on "computers and sexual culture"
(the phrase she used in a telephone message).
She'll have Internet access, and presumably access to Usenet.

She has asked me if I can direct her to any contacts in the area
(I pointed out to her that the whole point is that
you don't have to be in the same area as the people you meet)
who would be willing to talk about ...
the net, what it is, what it's like, how it revolutionised your life,
that sort of thing.
She's still at such an early stage of research
that she doesn't know exactly what she wants to know.

If anyone is interested in getting in contact with her,
email me, and I'll try to make the connection.
Thanks for your patience.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about." -- Oscar Wilde
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: CALL/FAX Pete Wilson to sign CALIFORNIA GAY RIGHTS BILL into *LAW*!
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:40:30 GMT

buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:


>Call, write, or fax Gov. Wilson and urge him to sign AB 2601.  If you are a
>Californian, tell him it would make you feel more secure in your job. 

Tell him that it might make HIM more secure in HIS job, also. I understand
that Wilson's approval rating is in the 20%'s and any support he re-captures
couldn't hurt.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			      	   "Read my lips -- no new ideas!"
CLARKSON '95				   --George Bush's apparent motto
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU 
A PC-HATING, PRO-LIFE, LIBERAL CARD-CARRYING ACLU MEMBER
						
"Is it inconsistent to chide Hillary Clinton's support of legal
rights of children, and then demand that unborn children have
legal rights over their mothers?  Is this what the Republican
party is promoting?"	---Mike Polen (talk.poli.misc user)
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:20:24 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:


>>We're going to bury you, asshole.  Deep. 

>Yes?  And how will you do that, Dr. Menegele?


Vass?  Veeth a shovel, herr Twit.


Matthew Melmon, etc., etc.
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Insults
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:53:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

In article <1992Aug24.203024.21632@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <l9iektINN8gf@mizar.usc.edu>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>
>>"Although many denigrations stem from, and perpetuate,
>>collective self-hatred, at least some undermine the
>>oppressive cognitive structure, attacking those who deny the
>>group."
>
>>I'm glad we've refrained from perpetuating "collective
>>self-hatred" in our dealings with Sargon the Butch.  (And
>>I'll let you reflect on and apply the beginning of the
>>quoted material however you wish.)
>
>What a *good* idea!  I can readily imagine getting a gander
>at this self-nominated paragon of accomodation with the
>enemy and thinking, "Butch?!?  Who *does* he think he's
>kidding?!"  Those ones with the persecution complexes are
>always the last to know.

Enemy, who's the enemy.

If we're talking about homophobes, then as Pogo was made say,
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Internalized homophobia is tenacious.  Bob is just exhibiting one form of it.

If we're talking about heterosexuals as enemy, then clearly we can be mistaken
as many heterosexuals are very supportive of both anti-discrimination and of
gay, Lesbian and bisexual individuals.

If we're talking about "straights" as Bob often uses the term, then it would
seem that having sex with "straights" accommodates "straights" and those who
are "straight-acting."  Perhaps we need to be more like Lysistrata (?) and deny
them our bodies.  

I don't think that any of these groups should be seen as the enemy.  The enemy
are those persons who use the fear of difference to control.  Bob is just as
much manipulated as poor whites who were taught to treat blacks poorly.  We do
our cause a disservice by taking a personal view of heterosexism and homophobia
instead of helping those who come to us with sincere differences but who are
within our community or wish to be.

We need to focus more on the roles of the Bushes and the religious leaders who
have power influence and explain over and over again the dynamics of
self-hatred and internalized homophobia. Explanation and education, not insult
and ostracism should be the order of the day.

John Allan Graves
Unitarian Universalist Minister,
Raleigh NC
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jeans (was Re: Rob Bernardo)
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:13:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug28.001314.7036
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <CARLTON.92Aug27165149@scws1.harvard.edu> carlton@scws1.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
>> does this mean that men don't use toilet paper?  wow...
>We don't when we're just pissing, at any rate.  

that's not completely true. My father taught me to use toilet paper
after I had pissed, but I never picked up the habit.

The thing I do to deal with the "drippies" is to sort of put a kind of
milking pressure on the perineum (aka "the taint", aka the bit between
asshole and balls) forward. This tends to flush the rest of the urine
right out of the ol' urethra. Makes me look like a pervert at the
stall, though.. :-)

>I suppose it would be possible at home; public urinals don't have
>toilet paper available at all.

this is a shame.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/           Fortune presents gifts not according to the book
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Beyond GAY and LESBIAN
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:48:19 GMT

ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:

>In a previous article, grady@btr.BTR.COM (Grady Ward  grady@btr.com) says:

>>So -- get with the program you homos, bis,
>>bestials, and hets -- omnisexuals _have it all_.

>Guess now we're gonna have to start a group called soc.atmahwb*

>*Anything That Moves And Has Warm Blood
                              ^^^^^^^^^^
Crikey, why be so exclusive?  Shirley the reptile and bird classes have
some place in this scheme; I mean, *omni*sexuality--well, there's 
probably a decent case for working the plant kingdom in. (C'mon,
ha'n't yer ever heerd o' kitchen sex?)

--Brent
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:17:35 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

Hello Gang.  Long Time No Post.

It is understandable that a goodly number of people, having the terrible
problem that they are not straight, and having the difficult time
of trying to come to grips with this will lash out at Gay Queens,
Leather Dykes, and a host of other stereotypes.  The point being --
if you were only more accessible, I wouldn't fear so much.  They only
want to beat up those sorts of dykes/queers, so you are making it
that much more dangerous for me.   But I just want to practice my 
so-called abberrant sexuality in private, and beyond that I do not
want to make waves. ---

All of this is understandable.  All of this I sympathise with.  
The only problem is that all of this has far to little with the problems
of being Queer right now.

I dream of a nice world where religion is a side issue and everybody 
is expected to live a life, loving whom they will, with no consequences
beyond their immediate friends and family.  We don't live here yet.

If you are having trouble coming out, I deeply sympathise.  But  even
though a generation or so has grown up since Stonewall, it does not
mean that with Stonewall we set aside the issue once and for all.
Even without AIDS, Gay and Lesbian activism would still be there.

The idea that if more ``obvious'' Queers were less obvious, one could
come out in peace is a tragic tribute to the efforts that so many have
made when *ALL* *QUEERS* had no peace.  We've worked hard.  We have
made a certain space for ourselves and a real political reality.
This was damn hard difficult work, undertaken by millions.  But the
sterotypes persist, and the hatred persists.

For those of you who find it hard to come out, in the persistance
of <pick your favourite sterotype that you do not want to be identified 
with> -- consider.  These folk have been fighting the damn hard and
difficult fight for years, decades, half-centuries.

It would be easier all around if you had been born 100 hence, when
we will have nailed down sexual rights for good.  I am told a
Chinese curse reads ``may you be born in interesting times''.
We all are born under that curse.

Within the lifetimes of many reading this list, the time has gone
from where all Gaypeople lived in ghettos and damn near none of them
were out to the world, where now we can see Gaypeople intimidating
other Gaypeople, saying that they aren't real Gays/Lesbians unless
they come out.
\


-----
We live in interesting times indeed.

For the young -- get a sense of history, and try to fathom what was, is,
and every shall be done.

For the less young -- get a sense of what we have done, and realise
that it is are achievements which make us so incomprehensible.

And let's always try to listen.

-------------

You all take care now,
nice to post again,
Laura
    
-- 
	C unions never strike; they only work to rule.

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: perrotta@pyrxbooter.eng.pyramid.com (Paul Perrotta)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:12:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology


In article <1992Aug26.192427.15540@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod William
s) writes:
>Technical Sergeant Leonard Matlovich was discharged from
>the Air Force in 1975, after coming out to his commanding
>officer.  His photo later appeared on the cover of "Time"
>magazine...
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember the issue so well. I must have read the entire article a
hundred times. I recall not only Matlovich's case but also the photos
of handsome men dancing together and *smiling* (it had never occurred
to me that *those* people smile). What a relief it was to read about
people like me and to know that they understood. 

The pictures of the Continental Baths were intriguing, too. As a 14
year old boy at the time, the very idea of the baths was so...
stimulating.

I kept the article for a long time. Mom must have thrown it out when
I went to school. (Surprise!)

-Paul

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Perrotta			  "Press any key to continue." - user guide
Pyramid Technology 		  "But I don't have an 'any' key." - user
perrotta@pyramid.com		
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Perrotta			  "Press any key to continue." - user guide
Pyramid Technology 		  "But I don't have an 'any' key." - user
perrotta@pyramid.com		
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.history
From: sechrest@z.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest)
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:10:01 GMT

In article <11954@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>Blacks served in the American Navy from the time of the Revolution
>until 1921, when that "progressive Democrat" Woodrow Wilson ordered
>that no new blacks be enlisted.  

It is important to remember that Woodrow Wilson was the first Southerner
(and second Democrat) to become president after the Civil War.  He
segregated public accomodations in Washington DC, as well.  

While in some areas he was progressive, believing in greater government
involvement in economic policy (he set up the Federal Reserve System and 
the Federal Trade Commission), he is also notorious for statements like his 
``history writ with lightning'' comment about the movie ``Birth of a Nation,'' 
which tells the story of the heroic founders of the Ku Klux Klan.

He was profoundly ignorant of other nations, and ran a very interventionist
foreign policy in the Carribean, Central America, and Mexico.  This was a
bad mix as the US Military ended up charged with running countries like 
Haiti and Nicaragua, without much understanding of what they ought to do.

--Stuart Sechrest
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:40:25 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>I do not consider nelly behavior to be the person's natural personality.

/(fjvwing)
/Don't you think this is a very sweeping statement?


It could be.  I am willing to believe that.


(fjvwing)
/For the real biggie - and think this through totally: what if it is?
/What if my behaviour, my voice, my moves, my swagger, my taste, my
/speech feel as natural as the pink on the soles of my feet, and I would
/feel amputated without them? What does this mean for your statetment that
/'you should act less fem. so that straight society accepts us' ?


My whole belief is based upon the assumption that such activity is
role-playing, and not the true inherent personality.  

If my assumption is wrong, then obviously my conclusion is also.  

In that case, I would be in the wrong in asking some folks to tone their
behavior down; that would be like asking someone to suppress being 
left-handed, just because the majority of people were right-handed.

However, I have not met anyone who has disproved my assumption; on the
contrary, I have met mny who had added weight to my assumption.  I 
could still be wrong; that is always possible.  So far, everything 
I have seen says otherwise, though.