From: kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle)
Subject: Re: Believe in youself, dammit! (was: Re: Singles Bar)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 09:37:02 GMT

kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes:
>It's been a while since I've posted anything, so I suppose I should update
>people on what's going on (don't run away just yet, okay?  :-).

Well, OK, but do try to limit the length of your posting just a tiny
bit.  You don't have to refute every article on the net, after all.

>this is unusual, that she normally gets a much higher male attendance
>(makes sense when you think about it: the male generally has to make the
>first move, so these classes will generally be much more useful to the

Kevin, where have you been?  Everybody knows the woman always makes
the first move, and I don't just mean batting eyelashes!  And women
ask men out all the time, at least on Trygve's street.

>A number of things came out of these classes.  The first is that you
>*never* get entirely comfortable with initiating a conversation with
>someone you don't know.  There is a good reason for this: when you do
>so, you are putting yourself on the line to some extent (however small).

I have no trouble initiating conversations with strangers.  After all,
I don't know them and they don't know me, so what's the big deal if we
don't get on?  Their loss, not mine, after all.

>The second is that the idea that relationships happen when you least
>expect it is a *myth*.  [...] Sharyn seems to
>think that this is one of the primary reasons people have so much
>trouble with relationships.  She may be onto something.

I'm glad that sonebody is willing to defend this unpopular view.  I
wonder, if certain ppl applied the same techniques to job-hunting that
they advocate for relationships ("Do what you like" for instance, or
"Don't _try_ to find one and one will come along") how many of these
ppl would be employed.

>She discussed various conversational techniques, such as "active listening",

Ah, I see, ways to make oneself more attractive, i.e. more dateable.

>it.  This takes some skill, though.  There are a lot more ways to blow it
>than to do it right (simply restating what they said, word for word, is
>generally not a good idea  :-).

*laugh*  Well, you do seem to have learned _something_ from the net.

>Another technique, which is particularly useful at parties, is to simply
>sit back and observe the goings on for about 10 minutes after you arrive

This seems too commonsense to bother to say it.
>with others.  This is exactly what I did.  I got there a little early,
>and started a conversation with one of the women who also showed up
>there early.  After we had both registered, we continued the conversation
>for some time.  I didn't get a phone number or anything, and neither did

Too bad.  I hope you run into her again...

>(I got the impression from her that she enjoyed it as well, and
>*also* got the impression that she didn't want to leave when she did.
>But I'm not yet sure that I can trust such impressions).  

Kevin, what the hell did you have to _lose_ by trusting the
impression?  I wasn't there to assess the situation, and neither was
anyone else.  YOU have to trust these impressions, or at least "trust
but verify."  After all, you still don't know if the impression was
correct because you never followed up on it.

>The main point is this: being aggressive in talking with others works.

Again, this seems so obvious that it doesn't need saying.

>Next time I'm giving them my phone number if I find them interesting
>enough.  Then they can call me, or not.  Their choice, but at least

Ya shoulda done it this time.  Or asked for hers.  (Giving a woman
your phone number is only effective if you live on a street where
women call men and *gasp* even ask men out sometimes.)

>then the chance will be there, and *they* will have the comfort of
>having control (this is very important).

Important to whom (and according to whom is it impportant?)

>way.  I will learn how to converse with others.  I'll maximize my exposure.  
Expose yourself only in New York. 

>I'll be as aggressive as I possibly can with respect to starting
>conversations with others. 

But trust your instincts if they tell you to shut up.

>and brush them off.  I won't put any *real* feelings into this until I
>sense something like that from the person I'm dealing with.  But I'll
>learn how to fake it (if necessary), so I can entice her into developing
>such feelings, so I can bootstrap the whole process without risking my

*laugh*  Naw, you'll put your real feelings into it, I betcha.  And
your heart will be broken too. That's part of it all, unfortunately.

(Of course, if you can do it using your scheme, go for it.  Whatever
works, i always say.)

>In article <JMD.92Sep11173357@lion.bear.com> [...]

Since I don't care to refute your refutations of everything else ever
posted to this group, I shall flush the remaining 75% of your post.

Good luck.

-- 
"Love, n., A temporary insanity curable by marriage....  This
 disease... is prevalent only among civilized races living under
 artificial conditions; barabarous nations breathing pure air and
 eating simple food enjoy immunity from its ravages."  
 ...........................Ambrose Beirce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
-- 
Kiran Wagle <kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>