From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting Cars was(Re: Gun blast noise in a car?)
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:39 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <1992Dec21.220818.27993@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#
#Ought to make one heck of a mess one way or the other ...  should get
#a fair amount of attention ...  may get me killed ... but I'm not
#going to submit to any armed thug.  I've got a 2000 lb bullet, and I'm
#going to use it!
#
#In the scenario you stated, the perp ought to end up crushed between
#my car and the mini-van ...  I would then hit reverse and do a 180 as
#soon as I could.  I should have about 5 miles before the lack of a
#radiator takes out my engine ...
#
#Do most car jackers use a 9mm?  And what level of threat is a 9mm after
#passing through the sheet metal of a car?  (i.e. is it still likely to
#be lethal after passing through {hood at a grazing angle, dash materials,
#etc...)?

Well with a little 2,000 pound car, the bullet may not notice, but with
John's 4,500 pound Plymouth it would be like shooting at an APC. :-)

I've had the pleasure of shooting up old junk cars, a friend
runs a previously owned parts emporium, IE junkyard. Cars slated for
the crusher are fair game. Another friend is a "merchant of death" 
with an interesting supply of machineguns and other destructive 
devices. 9mms sometimes penetrate, and sometimes fail miserably. 
The geometry of the shot is critical, as is the thickness and quality 
of the sheetmetal and the weight of the bullet. My opinion is that *if* 
it penetrates, it'll still be lethal. 

A recent highway shooting here in Atlanta is instructive. The bullet, 
a .357 or .38 SPL, weight unknown, entered the rear door of a Mazda just 
below the window trim, penetrated the door, penetrated the back of the 
driver's seat, penetrated the driver, penetrated the rear view mirror, 
and made a nice clean keyhole through the windshield. On the other hand, 
I shot a 1970 Chevy with a 9mm Uzi on rock and roll and the bullets, 115 gr 
HP, penetrated the door, the rolled down window glass, and lodged in the 
inner upholstery of the door. Another clip with 147 gr solids penetrated 
nicely, chewing up the upholstery of the seat, but stopping in the far
door.

.45ACP hardball dented the sheetmetal, but didn't penetrate. 255 gr Keiths 
in .45 Long Colt hot handloads in my 7 inch barrel Casull passed through 
both doors, making very ragged and large holes in the opposite door. 240 gr 
jacketed hollow point .44 Mags in a Ruger Super Blackhawk, 7.5 inch barrel, 
usually passed through both doors making neat .429 holes, no expansion. 
7.62 NATO rounds from a M60 reliably penetrated longitudinally as well as 
crosswise. 5.56 NATO rounds from a Mini-14 sometimes penetrated sideways 
and failed longitudinally in all cases. .50 BMG shredded the sheetmetal and 
penetrated completely from any angle. (That was fun) I wanted to try a LAW 
rocket, but my friends said no, there'd be too many small pieces to pick
up. I did shoot a dump truck on another occasion with a 75mm recoiless. It 
blew up real good.

So my advice is that if you are bothered by other drivers, have a vehicle
mount fifty at the ready. But don't count on your little ricebox being an 
APC.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu