From: petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: A Poem about Rape
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:44:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1992Nov6.094439.1871
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <1992Nov06.003240.120492@zeus.calpoly.edu> wprovinc@zeus.calpoly.edu (William E. Province) writes:
>In article <0cPkTB1w164w@kryton.UUCP> conrad@kryton.UUCP (Konstatin Kalikanzaros) writes:
>>petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen) writes:
>>
>>> Rape
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Help me someone, Help
>>> Can't you hear my plea
>>> I scream and fight but none to hear
>>> I'll have to count on me.
>>> 
>>> But now I have no strength
>>> I'm beaten, must submit
>>> One last request I beg of you
>>> A condom please, use it.
>>> 
>>> The worst is over now
>>> At least I am alive
>>> But now they say they'd far prefer
>>> I fought until I died.
>>> 
>>> Oh Sisters here's our lesson
>>> Fight til dying breath.
>>> The only proof they will accept
>>> Our bloody corpse in death.
>>> 
>>> Marguerite K.A. Petersen
>>> October 22, 1992
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> "Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."- Spock in Space Seed
>>> 	Marg Petersen	petersm@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
>>> *************************************************************************
>>
>>Some times I wish these things didn't have to be beaten into society's heads.
>>This poem bears repeating until it resounds from the walls of ewvery courtroom
>>in the country.  Perhaps every ROOM in the country!
>>conrad
>>
>   I may agree with the sentiment, but to be honest, I think that
>the poem itself needs some help.
>
>   Marguerite :
>
>     I have trouble with this poem because of the sing-song nature
>of the rhythm.

That's just the way it came out.  I have absolutely no control over it.
Honest!  And in a way, if you look a little deeper, there is some irony
there.  After all, *some* feel that women's claim to having been raped
is just a song and dance anyway.

Also, there are lines in it that tend towards the
>cliche'.  In particular, in the third stanza, you write :
>
>        
>>> 
>>> The worst is over now
>>> At least I am alive
>>> But now they say they'd far prefer
>>> I fought until I died.
>>> 
>
>    I have already read this stanza, Marguerite.  You did not have
>to write it; I know it; I understand it.  You state the obvious here,
>Marguerite.

That's what I do in my poetry; state the obvious.  Hopefully, in my
own way and perhaps in a way that touches someone else.

>    I'm making you angry, aren't I?  That's good.  You need anger.
>Your poem doesn't have enough of it.  Dammit, in order to share
>your anger, I have to feel it; I have to struggle with you against
>the bastard that's doing the assault.  I have to see the
>sneers of the self-righteous thick-skulled idiots with their 
>oh-so-petty concerns.  If you're angry at these people, I have to
>see their arrogance like blood, and Marguerite, I can't see any of 
>that in your poem!

Oh, how can I answer this?  No, truthfully you are not making me angry.
Far from it.  I enjoy criticism of my writing.  It's very stimulating and
a definite learning experience.  Not necessarily about how to change my
poetry but in learning about others' reactions to my poetry.

I find it *very* interesting that you say, on the one hand, that my poem
doesn't show anger, or the arrogance of the self-righteous and yet 
without seeing it in my poem, it still somehow conjured up in you the
images I was implying.  Seems to me the poem worked.

And no, I don't feel anger, my personal feelings go much farther than
mere anger; right on to complete despair.  One feels anger when one
has a sense of still being able to fight against oppression.  One does
not feel anger after submission and despair set in.  One feels only a
sense of loss of self and complete subjugation.  That is what I was
attempting to portray in my poem.

>
>(Please understand that when I say 'you', I am referring to the person 
>speaking in the poem.  I do not automatically assume that you are writing 
>this from personal experience.  If you are, you have my sincerest 
>condolences.)

At this point in time,(who can say what lies in the future)it is personal
only in the sense of identity with those women, my sisters, for whom this
trauma (I would not call it an experience) is *very* personal.

>    There are a couple of good moments in your poem.  The last line
>of the second stanza shows a strong sense of irony.  Unfortunately
>though, with the sing-song rhythm, and without the context of your
>anger, that line made me laugh.  

And in this day of AIDS, as well as risk of other diseases as well as
of pregnancy, I find it strange that any would laugh.  When I was a
teenager, we had a police woman come to our High School to give us a
talk about potential rapists and rape.  As a part of the talk we were
warned *never* to go out alone at night, stay away from dark places, and
if worst came to worst, submit to the rapist.  It was *safer* that way.
Of course we were also told that it was the absolutely *worst* thing 
that could happen to a woman and would probably be considered to be
*scum* if this ever happened to us.  We were also told that rape is
very difficult to prove and were thus encouraged to *not* report it,
just forget it and go on with our lives.  This very confusing and
contradictory advice was deplorable even to our young minds.  I have
hoped through the years that things would change and they have to a
certain extent but now it seems that any woman who is overpowered (I
refuse to call it giving in, since this implies a choice) is obviously
in the wrong.  

I honestly don't know how I would react in this situation, but I have
had experience with feeling so beaten (not in a physical sense) that I
have just had no fight left.  Perhaps I would fight to the death, thus
leaving a husband and children without a lover, friend and mother.  
Perhaps I would submit, hoping for life at least, and hoping also that
my family would just be glad that I was alive.  I truly don't have an
answer (and hope I never have to have one), but I support anyone who
reacts in either way.  

>    I don't want to laugh at your work, Marguerite; you have
>too much to say.
>
>     -- bill

Thanks for your comments, Bill.  I want to apologize to all for this
enormous use of bandwith.  It seems I had more to say than I thought.
Also, everyone can blame Marie for my writing this poem. :-)
I read her comment about wanting to write about the incident that was
reported, but she was too angry to put her feelings into words.  I
took her idea and tried to move beyond the anger in an attempt to reach
that place where there is no more fight left.

Kathleen O'Toole
(Usually the Bringer of Light, but not this time)

-- 
*************************************************************************
"Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."- Spock in Space Seed
	Marg Petersen	petersm@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems