From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Islam Revealed #1
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:09:16 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

Islam revealed.. :-)...... That was a good one......

In article <1993Jan8.224937.17721@news.ysu.edu>, af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
|> 
|>  
|>  
|> "O true believers, take not the Jews and the Christians for your
|> friends. They cannot be trusted. They are defiled - filth."
|>   Sura 5:55

I wonder when you Christians will start *reading* the Quran *before* 
qouting anti-Islamic publications.... Seriously take it and look if 
it really is as it is written or not *before* talking about *revealing* 
things as the only one you will make look stupid is yourself. You your-
self get revealed.....

And then use a translation done by a Muslim like Abdullah Yusuf Ali as
to many bad non-Muslim translations are floating around to try and make
Islam look stupid.....

First of all it is 5:51 and secondly what translation are you using?????
Please whatever you are qouting from go and search for a *good* transla-
tion...

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:51)" O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians
for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and pro-
tectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them
(for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a peo-
ple unjust."

So what does this verse mean?
Does it mean that we Muslims are prohibited by God to have
friends among the Jews and the Christians?

Verse (5:57) explains it better:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:57)" O ye who believe! Take not for friends and protectors
those who take your religion for a mockery or sport, - whether
among those who recieved the Scripture before you, or among
those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith
(indeed)."

See also (3:28).

|>  
|> "Allah has given those that fight with their goods and their
|> persons a higher rank than those who stay at home....The
|> unbelievers are your sworn enemies....Seek out your enemies
|> relentlessly....You shall not plead for traitors....Allah does
|> not love the treacherous or the sinful."
|>   N.J. Dawood, "The Koran", pg.212-222


Which vese is this????????
I've seen this verse before meaning something like that but what is your 
point??

Should we love our enemies as the Christian Serbs love us Muslims in Bosnia,
Sandjak and in Kosova????

Why don't you loving Christians tell the US-goverment to turn the other cheack
towards the Serbs as they did and still are doing towards the Muslim people
in Iraq??????

JAMES A. MICHENER: " No other religion in history spread so rapidly 
as Islam... The West has widely believed that this surge of religion 
was made possible by the sword. But *NO MODERN SCHOLAR ACCEPTS THAT 
IDEA*, and the Quran is explicit in support of the freedom of 
conscience." Islam - The Misunderstood Religion, Readers Digest 
(American Edition) May 1955.


In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(4:75-76)" And why should ye not Fight in the Cause of Allah and of those, 
being weak, are illtreated (and oppressed)?
Men women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town,
whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Thee one who will protect;
and raise for us one who will help!' Those who do believe Fight in the cause
Allah, and those who reject Faith fight in the cause of Evil:
So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of
Satan."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(22:39-41)"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to 
fight) because they are wronged;- And verily, Allah is most powerful 
for their aid; (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes 
in defiance of right,(For no cause) except that they say:'Our Lord is 
Allah'.  Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, 
there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synago-
gues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant 
measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his(cause); for verily 
Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might.(They are) those who, if we 
establish them in the land, establish Regular prayer and give Regular 
charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong; Whith Allah rests the end 
(and decision) of (all) affairs."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(2:190-193)" Fight in the Cause of Allah, those who fight you, but do not
transgress limits; For Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wher-
ever ye catch them, and turn them out from where ever 
they have turned you out; For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; 
But fight them not at the Sacred Mosque (Mecka), unless they (first) fight 
you there: But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those 
who suppress Faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
And Fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there
prevail Justice and Faith in Allah; But if they cease, let there be no
hostility except to those who practise oppression."

|>
|> "Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you shall find
|> them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with
|> every kind of ambush".
|>   J.M. Rodwell, "The Koran", pg.471

Which verse is this??? Which Chapter????

It sounds like 9:5.....
Well lets qoute (9:1-16) so that you read it in its *context*.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(9:1-16)"(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His
Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an
agreement. So go about in the land for four months and know 
that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace 
to the unbelievers. And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle 
to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His
Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you
repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know
that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment 
to those who disbelieve. Except those of the idolaters with whom you 
made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have
not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to
the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of
their duty). *(9:5)* So when the sacred months have passed away, then 
slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if
they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their
way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. *end of 9:5*
And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him 
protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his 
place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with 
His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the 
Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; 
surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). How (can it 
be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in 
your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please 
you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of 
them are transgressors. They have taken a small price for the communi-
cations of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that 
they do. They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of
covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond 
the limits. But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, 
they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear 
for a people who know. And if they break their oaths after their agree-
ment and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- 
surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist. What! will you 
not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of 
the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is 
most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers. Fight them, 
Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist 
you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people. And remove the 
rage of their hearts; and Allah turns (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and 
Allah is Knowing, Wise. What! do you think that you will be left alone while 
Allah has not yet known those of you who have struggled hard and have not 
taken any one as an adherent besides Allah and His Apostle and the believers; 
and Allah is aware of what you do."

I don't believe comments are needed as they explain themselves........ Just 
give yourself a chance to read it and you will without doubt understand it.

|>  
|> "O believers, when you encounter the unbelievers marching to
|> battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso turns their back to
|> them, unless withdrawing to fight again or removing to join
|> another host, he is laden with the burden of God's anger, and his
|> refuge is Gehenna - an evil homecoming!"
|>   A.J. Arbury, "The Koran Interpreted", pg.198-199
|>
 
Page??????
Which ayat (verse)????? Which Sura (Chapter)????
And then could you please explain wha is wrong with the above written 
things???? I don't get...... When it is war then it is war......


LAWRENCE E. BROWNE: "Incidentally these well established facts 
*DISPOSE OF THE IDEA* so widely fostered in Christian writings that 
the *MUSLIMS, WHEREVER THEY WENT, FORCED PEOPLE TO ACCEPT ISLAM AT 
THE POINT OF THE SWORD.*"The Prospects of Islam, London 1944.

M.K. GANDHI:
".. I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that 
won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the 
rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupu-
lous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and 
followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in 
God and in his own mission. *THESE, AND NOT THE SWORD, CARRIED EVERY-
THING BEFORE THEM AND SURMOUNTED EVERY TROUBLE*." Youg India 1924.

DE LACY O'LEARY: " History makes it clear, however, that the legend 
of fanatical Muslims, sweping through the world and forcing Islam at 
the point of the sword upon conqured races is *ONE OF THE MOST 
FANTASTICALLY ABSURD MYTHS THAT HISTORIANS HAVE EVER REPEATED." 
Islam at Crossroads, London 1923 page 8.


In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(2:256)"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out Clear 
from Error: whoever Rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the 
most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and 
knoweth all things."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(45:14)"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to 
the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People 
according to what they have earned."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(50:39)" Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the 
praises of thy Lord, ..."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(28:56)" It is true thou wilt not be able to guide everyone whom thou lovest: 
but Allah guides those whom He will: and He knows best those who recieve gui-
dance."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
(27:80-81)"Truly thou canst not cause the Dead to listen, nor canst thou 
cause the Deaf to hear the call,(especially) when they turn back in retreat.
Nor canst thou be a guide to the Blind, (to prevent them) from straying; only
those wilt thou get to listen who believe in our signs, and they will bow in
Islam."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(26:10-11)"The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not
admonish them: they will not believe.
Thou canst but admonish such a one as follows the Message and fears the
meeting of the Lord unseen; Give such a one, therefore, Good tidings, of
forgiveness and a reward most generous."

In the name of God. Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(29:46)"And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means
better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict
wrong (and injury); But say:"We believe in the Revelation which has come 
down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is 
One; and it is to him we bow(in Islam)."


|> Many others can be given.

Well, br. *GO FOR IT*!!!!!
But please, *BEFORE* you do that go and take a look at them in for example 
the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

According to a Christian Palestinian professor by the name Edward Said 
60 000 books were written against Islam during the period 1800 - 1950. That 
is a library, and believe me I have neither the will or energy to disqualify 
the filth which is in them. 

So please go and get yourself a good translation of the Quran.

The words of Jesus (pbuh) "You shall know them by their fruits" is *enough* to 
see were Christianity stands...... Believe me Brother, it is enough........

|> -- 
|> Frank
|> ....
|> "Forever, O LORD, your word is settled in heaven."  PSALM 119:89
|> "The entirety of Your word is truth."  PSALM 119:160

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(3:69)"It is the wish of a section of the people of the Book to lead you
astray. But they shall lead astray (not you), but themselves, and they 
do not percieve!"

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:59)"Say :" O People of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other 
reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come 
to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are 
rebellious and disobedient?"

Peace
Gani Skepi
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se

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(SAHIH MUSLIMIN)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: 
He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it
with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do 
it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength 
enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, 
and that is the least of faith."
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