From: cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 17:17:17 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Flash! Environmentalists switch off Earth's volcanoes (was: The Fr
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: WINCO
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In article <1992Dec22.160301.16848@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com writes:
>Keywords: 
>
>In article <1992Dec21.210602.17949@pmafire.inel.gov> cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook) writes:
>]In article <1992Dec21.173951.19584@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com writes:
>]>]In article <1992Dec17.220703.410@pmafire.inel.gov> cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook) writes:
>]>]>Nobody in science seriously doubts that global warming is happening.
>]>
>]>Well, in our local Geography Department, we have 2 climatologists
>]>that I know of that seriously doubt it: Dr. Bob Ballard and 
>]>Dr. Sherwood Idso. In fact, Ballard has published a book that gives an
>]>excellent presentation of the issue: "The Heated Debate." I recommend
>]>it for the science impaired (it would do Rush a lot of good to read it
>]>too - he is out to lunch on many environmental issues).
>]
>]Do they doubt that the earth has warmed over the last century?  
>Idso does... he is a historical climatologist, and has shown instrumentation
>bias in old readings. Ballard shows some warming.

OK. I admit it again (as in a previous post) - I overstated the claim.

>Yes, they dispute that. Ballard has doubts about the theory, but his
>overall view seems to be: that there will be some anthropogenic
>CO2-induced warming; That it will be at the lower edge of the range
>predicted by the models; that it will be beneficial - increasing crop
>growth, and causing harsh climates to moderate slightly.

He seems to be a believer in global warming to me, not a doubter.  A
conservative believer, but a believer nonetheless.

>Thus: A historical climatologist has raised doubts about the reported
>temperature increase in the last 100 years; another climatologist points
>out that even if we believe the increase, we should note that the increase
>came BEFORE the major CO2 increases, and that the temperature DECREASED
>during much of the CO2 increase; the theory of anthropogenically induced
>global warming is weak - it is probably right but current numbers
>are likely too high, and that the effects are likely to be BENEFICIAL.

None of which I argue with.  My original intent was to state that the bulk
of the debate centers largely on why it is happening and who or what is
causing it, as well as if we need to worry about it, not whether it exists.

>
>]To argue any of these points is NOT necessarily to argue that the earth
>]has not warmed recently or will not warm in the future.
>
>The earth may warm no matter what we do. The point is that there is

I would wager that it will.  I would also wager that it will cool again as
well.

>a scientific/political issue called "global warming." This thing
>is a result of global climate models. It presumes that increasing
>CO2 (which NO ONE disputes) will cause temperature increases. The political

Increasing CO2 exerts a warming influence on the system.  It does not
necessarily cause temperature increases.  That depends on a lot of variables.
A nit, perhaps, but this thread has turned pretty nitpicky lately.

>aspects of it claim:
>  -global warming is happening
>  -it is man made and a result of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" including
>   CFC's
>  -it is harmful (or catastrophic)
>  -we should immediately do something about it
>
>I have shown that THIS thing that we call "global warming" is indeed
>doubted by reputable scientists.

THIS thing you call global warming was not what I meant.  

I meant temperature increase only, and I agree that my original statement
was wrong.  If you toss in all the political aspects of it, I'm probably
more closely aligned with Ballard.  
>
>Now, to destroy a of straw man:
>  -no one disputes the greenhouse theory (ie, that heat is trapped on
>   the earth by selective radiation/absorbtion)

I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Dale Cook    "I don't much care how a man prays -- there's plenty of
                 room in hell for all of us."  --- "Mad Jack" Duncan
The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
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