HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stigo@ifi.uio.no (Stig Arne Olsen)
Subject: Re: Attn Commodore: You are making a Big Mistake (Hardware Manual)
Keywords: hardware reference manual
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:47:59 GMT
Originator: stigo@sognsvann.ifi.uio.no


In article <1992Nov18.225947.5840@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, wille@june.cs.washington.edu (Robert Wille) writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.124549.12281@ifi.uio.no>, stigo@ifi.uio.no (Stig Arne Olsen) writes:
> |> [my stuff]
> If you've been following the thread 'New hardware reference guide?' you
> would know that someone (I forgot who) from C= stated that people working
> on OS's would be able to hardware docs.  Just because there isn't a

Well, so they think it's better that SOME get the hardware ref., but not
all? That SUCKS!

> hardware reference guide doesn't mean that documentation on the hardware
> doesn't exist.  According to the previously mentioned article, people who

I never said that the documentation did not exist, the whole discussion
here is whether it should be made available to the public or not.
I imagine it's pretty hard to design new chips without documenting how
they work :-)

> have a *legitimate* reason (creating the best-ever demo doesn't qualify
> as a legitimate reason) for needing docs on the hardware will be able
> to get them.  I don't know if the Linux group will be able to get 
> documentation or not, but I hope so and it isn't too unreasonable that
> they will.

I doubt it. Linux is not a commercial product, so it wouldn't surprise me
a bit if C= wouldn't release it to them. I also remember one time that
someone wanted to include some CLI-commands in their public-domain work,
this was something _everybody_ already had, and would only make it more
easy to install the utility (forgive me for not remembering the exact
program),but Commodore refused. I have no reason to think they have
become more easy to deal with now.
> -- 
> Robert
-- 
|    Stig A. Olsen  |  stigo@ifi.uio.no  |  "Ja til EF"       |   
| Never hit a man with glasses.  Hit him with a baseball bat. |
From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: A Style Guide Question
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:20:46 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

In article <37104@cbmvax.commodore.com> peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:
>There needs to be some modeless way to strike the key-equivalent for
>a gadget even while a string gadget is active.  There isn't a good
>universal way right now.

	Hear hear!!  [Wild applause.]

>The Amiga Style Guide addresses this problem by recommending that
><ENTER> in a string gadget deactivate the string gadget but not close
>the window or take any other drastic action.  The idea is that <ENTER>
>followed by "D" or "C" would have the desired effect.

	And then, there are the programs that use <RETURN> or <ENTER> to
move from string gadget to string gadget.  In such a program, using the menu
key equivalents is nearly impossible!  And yet, it's a common practice
that (IMHO) is intuitively a reasonable thing to do.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: Todd_Lewis@unc.edu (Todd M. Lewis)
Subject: Re: Info about requesters and such
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:46:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.103201.59188@qut.edu.au> barham@qut.edu.au writes:
>Hello gurus,
>
>I have a question regarding Requesters, GadTools gadgets, ReqTools etc.
>
>[...]Now, while these "requester"[windows] are up, I want to block
>all user input into the main window, and put up a wait pointer when the
>main window is active.
>Any ideas?  Am I overlooking something entirely obvious?

Just change the blocked window's pointer to some busy sign (like the watch
on the Mac or the calender on Windows :-) and put a 1x1-pixel requester
in the corner of the window.  Change your IDCMP flags so messages don't
pile up, and there you are.  Not entirely obvious, but simple enough.
You could get fancy and make your "requester" window active whenever
your blocked window gets activated, but I don't think it's a good idea.
Let the user activate whatever he chooses, I say.

>| t.barham@qut.edu.au (Tim Barham) - "Dances with Mice"              |
Have a nice dance.
--
     Todd M. Lewis / Todd_Lewis@unc.edu / utoddl@guitar.oit.unc.edu
 Another Month Ends / All Targets Met / All Systems Working / All Customers
Satisfied / All Staff Eager and Enthusiastic / All Pigs Fed and Ready to Fly
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: ruocco@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (sergio ruocco)
Subject: It's time to have a FAQ.
Keywords: Amiga programming FAQ
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:39:47 GMT
Summary: We need a FAQ


I think it's time someone provides a faq about Amiga programming.
Faq should include:
- Amiga System overview
- Available commercial and Public Domain programming languages
- Available programming tools (Enforcer,...,GUI Builder(s),..)
- Available editors 
- Where to find technical documentation and books
- Known systems bugs (starting from 2.04 ;-))
- How to become a developer
- Differences & similarities with other systems (Mac, Pc , X, Unix)
- Amiga programming guidelines
-- safe & clean access to system resources (Resource Tracking..)
-- user interface guidelines (AUISG)
-- documentation standards (AmigaGuide, MakeGuide, ...)
-- Arexx
-- Good PD source code examples
-- TroubleShooting 
- Tips & Tricks
- Technical Answers to Common Questions
-- How do I Open a Window ?
-- ...
-- How do I write a complete application ?
-- ...

- Why should I program Amiga and not <fill-in-with-stupid-pc-name> ;-)

Suggestions & enhancements are welcome.

Any volounteers out there ?

Ciao,
					Sergio

ps) Similar FAQ should be set up for csa.hardware


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                             Sergio Ruocco                                   |
| Home                             Universita' Statale di Milano              |
| Sergio Ruocco                    ruocco@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it               |
From: davids@cats.ucsc.edu (Dave Schreiber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: physical memory protection with MMU
Date: 22 Nov 1992 05:15:15 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Nov21.183408.23912@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> wlanders@nexus.yorku.ca (W L Anderson) writes:
>Since in a protected memory environment, you are going to have to
>keep  track of what memory is allocated by which process, and the
>problem seems to be with memory that is being  used  to  pass  to
>other tasks is not always allocated as MEMF_PUBLIC, why not put a
>hook into the EXEC message passing code so that when  a  task  is
>about  to  pass  a message, you check to see if it's MEMF_PUBLIC.
>If it isn't, make it MEMF_PUBLIC.

The drawback is that the message could contain a pointer to some other
chunk of memory that isn't declared MEMF_PUBLIC.  While Exec could make
the message's memory MEMF_PUBLIC if needed, since it doesn't enforce a
particular structure upon messages, it wouldn't know that the message
contained a pointer and thus couldn't change the type of the second
memory block.  The process that received the message would then crash
when it tried to access that memory.

>Tom Hayko
>wlanders@nexus.yorku.ca



-- 
Dave Schreiber  "Look.  Don't touch."  davids@cats.ucsc.edu (until 6/20/93)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: eeklund@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eivind Eklund)
Subject: Re: BLK.W and books
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:56:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.234350.2111@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> dickerde@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>Does anyone know what the command   blk.w   500     means. I'm interseted in
>tring to learn Assembly but the book I have, by Abacus, doesn't explain what to
>do if the assembler your using doesn't have the command. I'm using DEVPAC 2.
>Also could someone suggest a book or tutorial about assembler?

That command is for the F***ING SEKA/AsmOne assembler.  It is to allocate
a block of memory.  Use DCB or DS instead.  The same for DevPac (and work
with any decent version of SEKA/AsmOne, too)
Books: There should come some OK docs with the assembler, and you ought to
buy Commodores manuals...   They're not particularly about 68000 assembly,
but you need them if you want to get anything DONE.
Also, a book about the 68000 (not machine-specific) would be nice to have.
 I would suggest getting one including the timings; you wil like to have
them l8er, but it is no BIG deal.

Eivind Eklund AKA Vishnu CRB
eeklund@nyx.cs.du.edu or phone +47-(0)-9-944946 (BBS, shout to get ME)
From: amigaman+@pitt.edu (Russell A Howard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Programming an Overscan screen under 2.04
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:41:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


	I'm tcurrently working on a project and want to use a 640 X 480
overscan screen.  If I open a 640 X 480 screen with OpenScreenTags and
specify "SA_Overscan" to be STANDARD it opens the screen ok.  Then I open a
640 X 480 window.  I then bli a bitmap onto the window which is 640 X 400.  
This is where the problem occurs...  The image is only 640X400, so the bottom
of the window should be clear, but it's not.  The image that I blit into the
upper part of the screen appears again right after the correct image except
the colors for the image are wrong.   Example:

+------------------------------+
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |  
| XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |  correct full image
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |  It displays the image again until it runs out
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |  of screen, but the palette is messed up.  It
+------------------------------+  uses the same colors but the grey areas are
                                  the green color etc...

Has anyone else had a problem like this.

Also, on a related note,  my workbench gets messed up if I go into the
Overscan preferences editor and drag the box to its full width and height for
the standard overscan setting on my 3000.  I make the box 704X480.  Then, if
I drag the Workbench screen down 2 pixels, the screen screws up and starts 
displaying garbage. If I move it down another pixel, it clears up.  It is
only the WorkBench screen that is effected though.  I had DPIV open in front of
the WB screen and when the WB screen screwed up, DPIV was fine.  WHat does
-- 
--
Russ Howard
Internet:  amigaman+@pitt.edu
BIX:       russhoward
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: walker@twix.unx.sas.com (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: SAS/C 6.0 upgrades in the UK
Originator: walker@twix.unx.sas.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:45:47 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <XqW-r*730@deva.demon.co.uk>, gcattley@deva.demon.co.uk (Gary Cattley) writes:
|>  Sorry to say I don't think that you are going to get an upgrade notice, both
|> myself and a friend are registered with SAS but neither of us have received a

This is not true.  HiSoft is supposed to be mailing upgrade notices 
to the U.K. customers, but I don't know why they haven't done so yet.

|> + Gary Cattley.                            Email:- gcattley@cix.compulink.co.uk  +

-- 
  *****
=*|_o_o|\\=====Doug Walker, Software Distiller====== BBS: (919)460-7430 =
 *|. o.| ||                                          1200/2400/9600 Dual
  | o  |//     For all you do, this bug's for you!
  ====== 
usenet: walker@unx.sas.com                            bix: djwalker 
Any opinions expressed are mine, not those of SAS Institute, Inc.
From: dewald@plains.NoDak.edu (Eric Dewald)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: RE:Benchmark modula 2
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:18:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.BxxC7n.GK7
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

a
From: twang@csc.albany.edu (Teddy Wang)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Newest version of the 68040.library?
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:00:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: thor.TWANG.92Nov18050013
Distribution: comp
Organization: State University of New York at Albany


Does anybody know the status of the 68040.library?  I bought a Fusion Forty
early over the summer, and have v36.2 of this library... I read in SysInfo
that their up to v37.xxx (development for the 4000?).  If this new version
is compatible with the Fusion Forty, where do I get a copy?  Is it legal 
for someone to e-mail it to me uuencoded?  

Thanks

Teddy
From: tron@uni-paderborn.de (Matthias Scheler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Will SAS 6.0 maintence cost us?
Date: 22 Nov 1992 14:39:57 GMT
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tanne.uni-paderborn.de

|> The patch will be freely redistributable.  We will upload it to
|> BIX, CompuServe, Portal, Genie and make it available for 
|> anonymous FTP (if anyone can tell me the FTP site or sites to
|> use, please do so.) 

Great !!!! Upload it to "amiga.physik.unizh.ch" [130.60.80.8] and one day later it
will be on its mirrors all over the world.

-- 
Matthias Scheler                                         tron@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
From: paulk@terapin.com (Paul Kienitz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:42:14 PST
Organization: BBS

> Er, what is an AutoDoc?
 
> What i'd like to know is what C= actually object to.
 
I think I just said something about speaking from ignorance.  I
didn't realize how right I was.
 
First question: the Autodocs are the official documentation of each
function in the OS.  If you don't read the autodocs then you don't
know the capabilities of the OS.  It really is that simple.  Not
studying the autodocs == not knowing what you're talking about when
you say what the OS can or can't do.
 
As for the second question:  it's been less than a week since someone
at C= posted a long and detailed list of exactly which practices are
the ones that cause programs to mess up on new hardware or new OS
versions.  You could have just gone ahead and read it, you know.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: vjh21@cas.org (Vince Herried ext 2877)
Subject: Re: Prolog needed
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:48:11 GMT

I sent email to the requester on this.
I've got Stoney Brook Prolog V3.1 ported to the Amy.
It runs under wb 1.3 or 2.04 but needs about 3 Mb of memory.
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
				 |     Vincent Herried  (614) 447-3600 x 2877
				 |     Chemical Abstracts Service
 _____________________           |     P.O. Box 3012
(_)________________   \          |     Columbus, OH 43210-0012
  ________________|\   \         |
 (_)______________\_\   \        |     Current thought: People who cannot be
   ______________________\       |     understood are geniuses, so management
  (_)____________________|       |     assigns them the toughest projects.
				 |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: heinz@edohwg.adsp.sub.org (Heinz Wrobel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: CXERR from SAS/C 6.0 SC compiler frontend
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:55:40 GMT
Organization: Edotronik GmbH

The code below is silly, ugly and you kow what, I know. It wouldn't work
anyway and I don't do it that way. But nevertheless it should compile.


---- cut ----
#include <dos.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <exec/types.h>

static void __asm SPutC(register __d0 ULONG chr)
{
    ULONG buf=getreg(11);

    *((STRPTR)buf++) = chr;

    putreg(11, buf);

} /* SPutC */
---- cut ----

Trying to compile without any special options gives me:

---- cut ----
9.FAST2:dme/src> sc sc6bug.1
SAS/C Amiga Compiler 6.00
Copyright (c) 1988-1992 SAS Institute Inc.
CXERR: 460323, Line: 11, Qpos: 16
---- cut ----

PS: This is not yet reported to emits. I still have problems registering
:-((



--
Heinz Wrobel, Edotronik GmbH (ECG018)
FAX +49 89 850 51 25 / TEL +49 89 850 25 20 (HOME!&VOICE, sometimes...)
From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: How should I reset a TOGGLESELECT gadget?
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:18:16 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

I'm trying to find the proper way change the state of a TOGGLESELECT 
gadget.  The intuition header file seems to indicated that the
SELECTED flag is read only (can be set only during initialization). 
Is this true? 

I have an application that conatains 10 push buttons that will change
each time the user selects a different item.  This will happen frequently
so I don't want to have to remove all the gadgets and add them back again
each time.  

But, I guess I'll have to.  Writing to a structure once given to the OS
should be a no-no, now that think about it.  I don't think this is 
stressed enough in documentation, I was playing with gadgets for a
while until I found out you have to remove a gadget before you can change
the gadget text.

-- 
Ross MacGregor          | "NT delivers on the promise of preemptive multi- 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca      |  tasking: The user can preempt the system."
                        |    -Jon Udell (BYTE senior tech editor)  :^) 
-- 
Ross MacGregor          | "NT delivers on the promise of preemptive multi- 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca      |  tasking: The user can preempt the system."
                        |    -Jon Udell (BYTE senior tech editor)  :^)
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: Programming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:44:11 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <1992Nov16.101823.26437@ugle.unit.no>, eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) wrote:
> In article <Bxs1D7.A3o@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, sjjohnst@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Stephen Johnston) writes:
> fine.  Compare these:
> ...
> 
> Object Load 'sprite'
> 
> Sprite 1,sprite
> sprite on

To the following mouse actions:

[grab sprite object, move it to where you need it turned on, drop it]

> NOW do you see why AMOS is good?

Not particularly.

> B'sides, you can't upgrade to a new Unix system w/o recompiling your programs...

Um, as someone who's ugpraded Unix systems starting as early as v6, and
ending as late as 4.3BSD, you *can* upgrade your Unix systems w/o
recompiling your programs. Nuts - I've upgraded both the hardware and
OS at the same time, and it works fine. Much better than doing so with
AmigaDOS, largely because Unix doesn't let people get away with the
kind of things AMOS does.

> Naah.  That's why AMOS doesn't use Intuition by default...  Read the thread...
> If you use libcalls from AMOS, you use the offsets directly, so no includes are
> needed.

Ah, yes, let's do everything we can to make sure our application
doesn't upgrade to a new OS.

	<mike
From: dobrien@sybase.com (Dave O'Brien)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: RACTER Anyone?
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:18:21 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <4347@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> Spindled Among Fleas,
abradfor@copper.denver.colorado.edu writes:
>Racter was one of the first programs to show up on the shelves back in
1985
>as I recall, and I still have it floating around here somewhere. I'm not
>entirely sure how compatible it is, but since it's a text-only program,
I'd
>give it a fair chance of working on newer machines/OS's.

I too have an old copy of Racter. But I couldn't get it working on my
500/1.3, nor on my 3000/2.04, but then again, the disk could be bad by
this time. I got it from a friend who got bored of it (he got bored of
most things he bought), but I haven't got it to work. Maybe I'll try it
on a 1000/1.2 that I know of.
From: Paul_Wolodko@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Paul Wolodko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Unique ID of a File?
Distribution: world
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:35:15 PST
Organization: Tunnel-Vision BBS!

        I'll make this short (not sweet but definitely short). I 
am trying to find a way to compare two files, without two copies
of the file. Confused? (Might be a tad longer than I originally
thought.) What I'm doing is packing (or archiving) away original
disks. Since almost all of these disks have copies of the
workbench files/utilities (I don't see why I would need 300+
copies of the "LoadWB" program, do you?), I would like to strip
those before I archive the entire disk's contents. To guarantee
that any programs to be "stripped" are actual copies of a
workbench original, I compare these file(s) against the workbench
original. If they are the same file, it can be safely removed.
One large drawback of this method, I must have copies of the
original workbench files handy. It would be much "nicer" if I
could somehow compute a file's ID, and compare just the IDs of
workbench original and this file. Back to my original question,
is there an algorithm that will do this for me, CRC, CheckSum?
Any gurus out there with the answer?
 

Thanks for any help, bye.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

 _ __ 
' )  )         /)   UseNet - Paul_Wolodko@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca
 /--' __. . . //   Fido - 1:153/910.0 & 1:153/941.0
/    (_(_(_/_(/_  AmigaNet - 40:800/910.0
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: paulg@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Paul Gittings)
Subject: Re: found g++ in gcc, but can`t seem to co
Originator: paulg@sydrd19
Organization: Telectronics Pacing Systems
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 01:02:31 GMT


In article <1992Nov16.070023.20559@eua.ericsson.se>, etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl) writes:
[ STUFF DELETED]
> 
> I had the same problem. I've tried to specify -lg++, but it didn't work. I turned
> on verbose mode (-v) and saw that -lg++ now suddenly was -lg ?!. So, I renamed
> libg++.a to libg.a and everything work just fine.  Don't ask me how g++ could end
> up as just g...

The reason is simple cli uses "+" as a continuation character and strips it
off.  In the arexx drivers for gcc are a couple of "bugs" so that the
g++ dirver calls the gcc dirver with a command line ending in -lg++, of
course the gcc driver only gets -lg+,  the arexx gcc driver in turn
calls the gcc executable with a line which know ends in -lg+ and again
another + gets stripped off and gcc only gets -lg.  Simple!
The solution is to add "  " to the calls to the end of the line which
calls the gcc dirver and the line which calls the gcc executable.

Cheers,
Paul Gittings
Telectronics Pacing Systems- 7 Sirius Rd, Lane Cove, NSW 2066, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   _              | paulg@tplrd.tpl.oz.au OR paulg@tps.com
_ // Amiga users  | 61-2-4136963 (voice: work)----------------------------
\X/ make it happen| 61-2-4136868 (fax)        |A Welsh/Canadian/Australian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No matter how much I beg, Telectronics will not allow me to express any
opinions on its behalf.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.hardware