HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brao@pollux.usc.edu (Bapa Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: A Request/Question to Bapa Rao
Date: 24 Jan 1993 14:10:06 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu



Raj Bhatnagar wants to know from me where I would place the acts of 
complaining to employers about messages someone disagrees with, and
 the posting of personal mail to the net without permission on some
relative scale of immorality.

As a rule, I don't have a total ordering (or even partial ordering) of
immoral acts based on which I make some kind of automatic, graded 
response. I respond to particular ethical situations based on my 
personal values and previous experience. I don't think I am unique
in this approach. Thus, I can't provide a general answer to Raj's query.

But then, I don't believe Raj intended the question to me as a general one.
He had two specific instances in mind: my severe criticism of Ajay Shah's
misuse of private e-mail and the apparent complaining to Virendra Verma's
employer by someone. On the first matter, there appeared to be some
doubt about the private nature of the source from which Ajay Shah
obtained his copy of Sastry's note; accordingly, I withdrew my strictures
against Ajay Shah as I felt that was the fair thing to do. I still
 feel that Ajay Shah's methods  in this case have been reprehensible.

About the Virendra Verma issue, I have absolutely no information. The 
entire debate and the participants have long entered my kill file, as
I found it boring. In general, debating someone by complaining to his
employer is a stupid and immature tactic, likely to invite the contempt
of the employer. At the same time, when debate crosses the boundary into
vile abuse and threats  I would have no compunction in informing the
perpetrator's employer about the type of person they are harboring. I do
seem to recall that Raj Bhatnagar himself had advocated this method 
when Arun Gupta was threatened. 

I realize that Raj is probably making some sort of elaborate point about
my personal biases. I freely admit to being biased (unlike Raj :-)); 
however I consider dishonorable the airing of personal mail no matter 
what the politics of the perpetrator (trust me on this, Raj :-)). I 
bother to react on the net when the parties involved are "acquaintances" 
and the topic is of high interest, and I feel like killing a little time. 
No deep-seated mystery about any of this; no need for any clever insinuations.

If Raj has further questions about this, I request that he send me e-mail 
instead of posting on the net. .

Bapa Rao

As always, my personal views.
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: BJP
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:30:41 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan21.222934.22198@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, 
pinto@enuxva.eas.asu.edu (Kevin A. Pinto) writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.113041.46593@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>...... (deleted) ....... 
> 
> 	It's interesting to note that as far as Deb Chatterjee is concerned,
> all Muslims are JKLF sympathisers.

  I agree that Javed in particular is quite upset (naturally) and is totally
  grieved with what is going on in his native town Bombay - just as I am!
  I also *did not* ever specify that Javed said that his sympathies lay
  with the JKLF.

  However, a small number of Muslims are like Javed Ahmed Khan. Most of them,
  though moderately educated, are pro-Pakistan and side with JKLF. (This, IMHO,
  is because of the fact Muslims who may not by some reason be able to reach
  those self-defined ladders of success - turn towards religion as their last
  elixir of consolation. This applies to Indian Muslims - as technically 
  speaking, they are next door to their religiously condemned neighbors (idol
  worshipers) Hindus.) I am *NOT* asserting that Javed is like them. But, I
  am saying that most are *NOT* like Javed.

> --
> Kevin Pinto

   - deb chatterjee
  (a good samaritan)
From: goel@cadsys.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Is "Statesman" newspaper?
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:42:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <wfNJbG_00iUx02SUtC@andrew.cmu.edu>, jw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu (James J. White) writes...
>I've found an interesting reference in a 1969 publication titled
>"Statesman" or "The Statesman."  Can anyone tell me if this is a
>newspaper from India, from what city, and if there are copies or
>microfilm in the U.S.?  Many thanks.

    The Statesman is an erstwhile English Daily from Calcutta, India
    It has it's offices in  10, Chowranghee Lane, Calcutta, India.

    I used to find an occasional copy at my Univ., so you may
    find such in a big school.             
---------------------
Shashank Goel                      goel@cadsys.dec.com
CAD/Layout Verfication Group       HLO2-2/G13,77 Reed Road. 
Digital Equipment Corporation      Hudson, Ma.-01749.(508)-568-5280
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rsingh@eos.ncsu.edu (Ranbir Singh)
Subject: Re: Help to riot victims ?
Originator: rsingh@atlas.psrc.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: rsingh@eos.ncsu.edu (Ranbir Singh)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:06:47 GMT


In article <1993Jan23.191405.27583@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, jmahajan@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Jayant Mahajan) writes:
 
> DECLARATION OF SYMPATHY
> 
> I JK express sympathy for the riot victims in my mother land Bharat. I
> urge the Bharatiya Government take strong actions against all the
> rioters.
> 
> signed 
> jk

Don't give this bullshit to gain support. Hate mongerers like you should stick
to what you're capable of -- spreading hate & their religion!
 
> Disgusted with Commies and Pseudo seculars
> jk

And we Sir, are disgusted with you!!


 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: an5953@anon.penet.fi
Subject:      A Good Sig File
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.indian
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:26:23 GMT


 This will make good sig file for any thinking Indian these days. You are
 welcome to save this and use it as your signature file.

 -Agnivesh.

 "First they came for the Gypsies, and I didn't protest since Gypsies
  were so wierd anyway. Then they came for Jews, and once again I kept
  quiet thinking perhaps they deserve it. Then they came for the
  resistors and still I kept silent. Finally they came to get me, but
  by this time there was no one left to defend me"

           - paraphrased statement of a Catholic Priest in Nazi Germany.
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: an4234@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Re: giving your mom a fax machine
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.indian
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:48:26 GMT

>From: ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh)
>Path: att!linac!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!csrd.uiuc.edu!sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu!ghosh
>Organization: Univ of Illinois, Center for Supercomputing R&D, Urbana, IL
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 22:14:43 GMT
>Sender: news@csrd.uiuc.edu
>
>
>Hi!
>
>Has anybody done any feasibility study of giving your mom a fax machine,
>or your sweetheart back home, a fax machine to shorten the roughly 30 day 
>tunrnaround time for written communication with desh?  Would a fax bought 
>here work in India?  And how much does it cost, AT&T charges, to fax a 
>page to India?
>
>Thanks for any relevant information,
>Sanjoy Ghosh
>
  I have taken a fax modem to Bombay and installed it in my brother's PC.
  I regularly send faxes to my family instead of calling or writing.
  Since it is difficult to print a fax from a pc, when I want them to 
  have a paper copy we use one of the PCO's providing fax services. They
  recieve your faxes and home deliver them for Rs. 10 a page.

  PCO I think stands for public call office which are several shops which
  have sprung up from where you can make long distance (std)calls. Many of them
  have fax service also. I also know some answering services in Bombay which
  provide fax service.

  I use my home phone line to send and recieve the faxes. It takes under 
  1 minute to fax a page for $1.69.
  I have saved a few hundred dollars in the last one year by cutting down on
  phone bills.
  It is not worth paying 26-30,000 ruppees duty for a fax machine. You
  can easily slip a fax modem through the customs. I have taken 3 so far.
  It costs only Rs. 40 a page to send a fax from India from a PCO. The
  fax service may not be so widely available in other towns.

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bhat@cs.columbia.edu (Dinkar Bhat)
Subject: Re: .... 60.min/dowry....
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:42:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.135403.4576@ryn.mro4.dec.com> verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan26.210115.19069@bnr.ca>, uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2) writes...
>>the dowry deaths are the decease of "rich" people of
>>certain communities in Delhi (mostly)...apparently
>>they can get away with this crime. Better than ad,
>>we women's shelters since the girl's family is not
>>ready to shelter their blood and flesh. I would say
>>the society is sick in general to accept such terrible
>>fate of women. 
>
>	Yes. These elites are the same as psuedo-secularists. Do you know
>	what an I.A.S. asks for dowry? 60 lakhs in my area.
>

ANY EDUCATED MAN ASKING FOR DOWRY IS A **DOWN RIGHT IMBECILE** WITH NO SELF
RESPECT. THERE IS NO FIRST AMENDMENT RELATED QUESTION IN THIS.

Dinkar.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:45752 soc.culture.asian.american:12040 soc.culture.british:19603
From: Lynn.E.Noel@dartmouth.edu (Lynn E Noel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.british
Subject: Songs of the Subcontinent?
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:30:42 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

At a recent party of a cappella harmony singers, we got on a roll of
"exotic-destination" songs -- Away Rio, Bound for South Australia, Old
Maui, &c &c. This led naturally to "colonies" songs: Black Velvet Band,
CaneCutters' Lament, Scarborough Settler's Lament, Queensland Drovers,
&c &c. Our host's mother, an East Asian scholar of some repute,
wondered why there were so few songs in the British Isles tradition
from British India -- after twenty of us had been unable to come up
with a single example.  Australians, Canadians, even us Yanks have our
collections of Anglo-Celtic lore and songs written in the British Isles
tradition; and the rich cross-pollination of Africa, South America and
Europe have given us North Americans plenty of gospel, Latin, calypso
and reggae in our "traditional" harmony singing.

Where is India? As a geographer, singer and collector, this intrigues
me. Was the work so different that the work songs didn't travel, or
didn't get written? (Sheep don't do well in the jungle, we understand.)
Where are the songs of the tea plantations, or of the soldiers marching
to war during the Raj? Was the conflict, culltural or political, so
distasteful that the folk history has been suppressed? Did the
bourgeois class that went out to India just not sing/write folk songs?
Was the music so different that there was no cross-cultural balladry or
harmony? Were the forms too foreign to adapt? Or am I missing
something? India was Britain's largest possession for a long time.
There is white space on my musical and mental map.

Can anyone give examples of any of the following? We are particularly
interested in songs that have survived, or been revived, in the oral
tradition. "Mirrors" of any of these genres in Asian languages would be
most interesting as well!

%  songs written in English in India during the British Raj
%Jwork songs of British workers in India, or of workers in colonial
activities 
%Jsongs that mention India as a destination or an origin, or contain
Indian placenames
%Jmodern songs that deal with colonial society in British India
%Jsongs in the Indian tradition(s) that touch on the colonial period

If there are empty categories, why? RSVP to end our bafflement! Thanks.
Please e-mail me directly as I don't check some of these lists
regularly.

Lynn E. Noel
Research Fellow, Atlantic Centre for the Environment
lynn.e.noel@dartmouth.edu

"The care of rivers is not a question of rivers, but of the human
heart."  Tanaka Shozo
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:45741 soc.culture.tamil:5568 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1912
From: ngrjn@carson.u.washington.edu (V. Nagarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: A fervent appeal!!
Date: 28 Jan 1993 02:36:15 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Summary: Posted on behalf of: SANJEEV@TIFRVAX.BITNET

	
	Here's the address for sending donations to the riot-victims:

        The Times of India relief Fund,
        The Times of India Building,
        Dadabhai Naoroji Road,
        Bombay-400005
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: raghu@nairobi.eecs.umich.edu (Raghu Mani)
Subject: Re: Why Muslin persecution is rempant these days?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:52:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.162549.21264@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, nadeem@redskins.ent.ohiou.edu (Mohammed Nadeem  ISE-GRAD) writes:
|> 	Which world you people live in.  Islam is the fastest growing
|> 	religion of the world at present. (I guess the magic of sword
|> 	is still working :-))
|> 
Just a question - I have noticed a large number of Muslims claim that 
their religion is the fastest growing religion in the world. What I 
object to is that this is being used imply that somehow people are 
more attracted to Islam than to any other faith. You have to present
a better argument than that - specifically just how much of this 
"growth" can be attributed to the birth rate in the Islamic world 
and how much can be attributed to fresh conversions. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not Muslim bashing; just curious - that's all.

Raghu
From: an5584@anon.penet.fi (Salman Rushdie)
Subject: *********What is e-mail excess of Rushdie*******
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:10:41 GMT

Hello:


Another satan has come and has used this service.

What is his address?

Search out?

This is a puzzle and you have to solve.

Am I  Deb Chatterjee or Supratic Gupta?.

Am I Nimmala or Samit Banerjee?

Am I Doki or Fafat?

Am I Mustufa or Shams?

Am I Crick or Bhatnagar?

Am I Sanjeev Mahajan or Arindam Ghosh?

I assure you, I am one of these.

Search out .

Love an Peace-

Rushdie
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Organization: Heinz School, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 12:21:55 -0500 
From: Ashish Arora <ashish+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Indian Express Advertisement

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.indian: 21-Jan-93 Indian Express
Advertisement by Srikanth Konda@eng.aubur 
> If you disagree with the contents of the advertisement published in
Indian Exp
> ress, well, you can also collect some money and publish advertisements
condemn
> ing RSS/BJP/VHP. (lot of revenue for Indian newspapers)
>  
> But if you don't like the idea of publishing/posting, or if your
present state
>  of mind can not tolerate the freedom of expression(simply because it
is again
> st your view), some thing is wrong with you. this is basically signs of
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> communism.
^^^^^^^^^^
No.  The right to bring out an ad is not being questioned. Instead, it
is the assumption that this represents the sentiments of the Indians in
the US which is the issue. 

cheers
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@brahms.udel.edu (Akash Sharma)
Subject: Re: For a break...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:15:51 GMT

In article <1jv6mnINN4kn@overload.lbl.gov> prem@prem.lbl.gov (shirdi prem) writes:
>
>In article <C1AG9J.5tv@news.udel.edu>, akash@brahms.udel.edu (Akash
>Sharma) writes:
>|> For the record, I still think that Eagle is an informal code name 
>|> for any active president.
>
>    How about the inactive ones, like Reagan??     :)
>
	Rawhide sounds good!!!
Akash.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2)
Subject: Re: A J1-Visa Question
Organization: bnr.ca
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:48:36 GMT

Perhaps some 3000 temples (mostly in North India) were vandalised
when India was under "Muslim" rulers. Anyhow this the legend...			
what the actual number was we cannot tell. I also believe two
wrongs do not make a right. How do we bring harmony to all the
people of India? This is where we need to spend the energy on...
My 2-bits worth.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prathap@parnassos.engr.utk.edu (Prathap S. Shanmugam)
Subject: Religion...Fanaticism...Growing up...
	
                CHICAGO ADDRESS (in response to Welcome)
 
                                  by
 
                           SWAMI VIVEKANANDA,
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:40:18 GMT

   At the World's Parliament of Religions, Chicago, 11th September 1893


Sisters and Brothers of America,
  It fills my heart with joy unspeakable to rise in response to the warm
and cordial welcome which you have given us. I thank you in the name of the
most ancient order of monks in the world; I thank you in the name of the 
mother of religions; and I thank you in the name of the millions and 
millions of Hindu people of all classes and sects.
  My thanks , also, to some of the speakers on this platform who, refering 
to the delegates from the Orient, have told you that these men from faroff 
nations may well claim the honor of bearing to different lands the idea of
toleration. I am proud to belong to a religion which has taught the world 
both tolerancce and universal acceptance. We believe not only in universal
toleration, but we accept all religions as true. I am proud to belong to a
nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions
and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered 
in our bosom the purest remnant of the Israelites, who came to southern India
and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was 
shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny. I am proud to belong to the religion
which has sheltered and is still fostering the remnant of the grand 
Zoroastrian nation. I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn
which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day
repeated by millions of human beings: "As the different streams having their 
sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the
different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all
lead to Thee."
  The present convention, which is one of the most august assemblies ever
held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the world, of the doctrine
preached in the Gita: "Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I 
reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to Me."
Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long 
possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence,
drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilisation, and
sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these horrible demons, 
human society would be far more advanced than it is now. But their time is 
come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in 
honour of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all 
persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings 
between persons wending their way to the same goal.

Thanks.

 
Keywords:
From: gt0138d@prism.gatech.EDU (Sumit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Super computers from India...way to GO guys
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:04:34 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1993Jan26.180335.12279@chpc.utexas.edu> byab314@chpc.utexas.edu (Sri
nivas Bettadpur) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.153645.10113@bnr.ca> uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper
2) writes:
>>>I hope some a day a Muslim can become the Commander-in-Chief of the
>>>Indian Army (this will be another of the great idea for secularism).
>>
>>  We have already had at least one I can think of : Air Chief
>>Marshal I.H. Latif.  At one stage during his tenure, there was a Hindu

>I think the Navy chief was Admiral A.S.Dawson.
>General Sundarji could have been the Army chief (I'm not too sure about this).

Am I missing something here? Isn't the President the Commander-in-chief
of the Armed forces? We already had two Muslim C-in-Cs. 

Just a thought.

Sumit

--
From: dheeraj@eng.umd.edu (Dheraj Sanghi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: .... 60.min/dowry....
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:01:23 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: pepsi.eng.umd.edu


>I have heard rationalizations of dowry to include something which
>goes like this:
>
>1. Most of the responsibility of the upkeep of the family falls
>   upon men.

Well, in most raditional homes, the men worked outside, and the
women inside homes. How come one responsibility is considered greater
than the other. Even in financial terms, there are huge number of
families in which women work. In any case, how does dowry help ?


>2. In our society often the education of women is given second
>priority and the money which is not spent on their education is
>what is demanded as dowry.

I have heard people asking for money spent on their son's education as
dowry, but not for the money saved because she didn't go to school.
In any case, it just not justify dowry (not that you are trying to,
but wanted to make it clear). It is much more benefitial to the
society to encourage education for all than to have dowry.


>3. So, if women (as brides) cannot contribute to support a family,
>they should at least provide the downpayment.

Firstly, women do contribute to support a family. Secondly, It is not
the woman who provide the "downpayment" but woman's family (father,
brother etc). Thirdly, an equal inheritance would be a better
solution.


-dheeraj

-- 
Dheeraj Sanghi			(h):301-474-3592	(o):301-405-2723
Internet: dheeraj@cs.umd.edu	UUCP: uunet!mimsy!dheeraj
I asked a Burmese why women, after centuries of following their men, now walk
ahead. He said there were many unexploded land mines since the war. - Mueller
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:45240 soc.culture.pakistan:19814