HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bsadeghi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Behzad Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Is there an interpreter in the house?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:38:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.000558.7188@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> javad@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Agha Javad) writes:
>In article <C1J33w.LII@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:
>>aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb) writes:
>>>In article <C1A006.JEA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> 
>>>yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:
>>

[all the arguments regarding why american men should or should not
marry iranian women has been deleted]

with all due respect to aref and agha javad, why aren't there
any WOMEN objecting to ala's comments? if the argument is that
they are independent and... then let them speak for themselves.

behzad

Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: shahrokh@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Shahrokh M.)
Subject: Re: predictions in quran
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University, CA   USA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:25:07 GMT

In article <lm8jbnINNjpt@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> >>>>>> Anonymous writes:
>
>  After exactly 7 years, the Romans had defeated the Persians
>  at the border of Palestine and Jordan.  This area was called
>  in the verse "Adna Alarth" which could be translated either
>  to the furthest, nearest, or lowest land.  It was later known
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  in Geography that the area of the Dead sea is the lowest spot of
>  the earth.  This lowest land by the Dead sea was the area where
>  the battle b/w Romans and Persians took place.  So "Adna" could
>  mean the lowest as was precisly described in the verse.
>
>  After this war and the true prediction in Quran, people by
>  massive numbers had entered islam, believing that the Muhammed
>  is a true prophet and he could not predict such a thing without
>  the Power of the Almighty Allah.  Of course, the muslims won
>  the bids.

this is a prime example of 'creative interpretation' of losely written
text to create that 'ajab!' and holier than thou (az mA behtaroon???)
effect.

lets see, the area was called 'adna alarth', which means:

1. furthest, or
2. nearest, or
3. lowest    

oh really?  what else is left, geographically speaking!!???

4. right here, or
5. highest

considering it is unlikely that a battle of thousands would be fought
on the peak of a particular mountain (highest), and that it would be 
unlikely that it would be fought in arabia (here), that only leaves:
nearest, furthest and lowest.  well, well... how impressive!

of course if the battle was fought in iran (nearest), the 'prediction'
would still be true.  and if was fought in far away (furthest) land of the 
romans the prediction would still be true.

even if it had said, they shall fight in the dead sea specifically, it
would still be debunkable.

also, if i remember my history correctly, many battles were fought
in the flatlands of the dead sea (large flat areas in general).  so its 
quite easily understandable why that 'lowest' insurance-phrase is there too.

this isnt a prediction at all.  its simply a well educated guess.  

besides, as time passes, of course only the 'predictions' that somehow came
true (thru educated guesses, or pure luck) tend to survive.  the wrong ones 
are usually quietly air-brushed out.  you never hear about those, especially
after 1400 years.  hell, ive never heard of a *single* person complain about 
their parachute not opening either.

still searching for that dandoon shekan proof that someone on this 
planet has at some point contacted extra-terrestials, god, etc...

--
"Is there anybody out there?"

		  Pind Floyd, difAl.
From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Execution (Was Re: new books)
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:47:57 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

In article <1993Jan21.171841.21514@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> javad@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Agha Javad) writes:

> In article <1993Jan19.144240.28672@Princeton.EDU> bsadeghi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Behzad Sadeghi) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan18.214458.11163@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> javad@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Agha Javad) writes:
> >>

> >>choose the latter. May the fascists one day pay in full for what they have 
> >                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>done to our country.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >just out of curiosity, agha javad, how should these "fascists" pay
> >in full, in your opinion? i would be interested to know.
> >

> Good question.  I alone am not an authority, it should be up to our people
> to decide.  But IMHO (if that's what you want to know), they should be put
> on trial (nationally televeised/reported), and made to answer for their actions.
> They should be given the right to a lawyer and legal defense, and should be
> punished for their treason to our country. This could mean imprisonment or
> exile, but I personally would not like to see any executions, because I find
> that the more violent a transition, the more difficult a recovery.  For
> historical examples, one can refer to Romania vs. Poland and  Hungary, where
> the latter countries are well on their way to the future, while the latter 

[f course you mean "former"]

> is still dealing with the past and the pain of the violence.  But then a lot
> of people would disagree with me and say that the top guys should be
> executed since they have so much blood on their hands.  I personally think
> that in the long run it's better if that doesn't happen, because our
> country has seen more than its share of death and misery, and it's time
> that this vicious cycle stop.  I hope this answers your question.

I'd like to appeal for a much stronger stand against execution.  No
matter how grave and widespread the crimes of the "top guys", let
there be no more executions in our homeland.  And all those fighting
for democracy and freedom should IMHO put the total ban on capital
punishment at the top of their aims.

Only then can we hope for a humane and caring society to emerge.

-hossein
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Cruise Missiles (pesar amoo)
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:52:56 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:


>>22-Jan-93 10:54 J10B000 <J10B@UNB.CA> Re: Cruise missiles 

>>1) It was Iraq that in Sept. 1980 strated the war.

>Only if you are being disingenuous.  Actually Khomeini started the war by 
>attempting to instigate an overthrow of Saddam.  I shouldn't have to say that
>I don't like Saddam, but I will say that from a purely military point of view,
>he probably did exactly as he should.  His power was threatened, so he
>attacked.  

Hmmmmm.... I understood it to be Saddam trying to grab back the Shat-al-Arab
waterway after being forced to shift the boundary mid-stream by the then
Shah in the mid-70s.
Prior to that (mid-70s) the border had been on the Iranian bank of the Shat-al
Arab giving Iraq full access and Iran none. The British had set it there (in
breach of normal International conventions operating at the time) in the 1920s
to protect their own vested interest (and puppet government they had set up)
in Iraq.
Essentially the Shah had left Saddam with egg on his face and, with the Shah
gone, it appeared to be the ideal time to save face and grab it back.

But, I could be wrong.....

Dave
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack)
Subject: Re: Re; Unreadable poems [sci-anon-poster] [sci-poster]
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:00:22 GMT

sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:

>First, I should remind you that the SCI or usenet in general is not a
>formal form for in depth discussion.

Who are you to decide what is the purpose of SCI and/or usenet?

>Now, regarding formal repugnal of the poem. The "new style poetry" in Persian
>language has never gained wide acceptance.

That load of alaf that you downed must not have been of low quality
(i.e. it sucked)! Wake up and smell some gol "gAv" zaboon, honey!

After having done so, read the following poem so that your soul may be
refreshed!


                                                             | .     |
                                                          .  |_e_o   |
                                                         (_)       /  
                                                         -------------

                                  ~       |        .        |      .   =  
            ! >  _,_w     _o   __ |  4_   |    > q_7     _8 |_o   4_ q_)_7
                / c    (_S     .      .    /     /    (_S            /  c 

        |        |       |              ..  ||   .           ..           
      . |     .  |_7   o |  o >  _,_w   __,_||_,_7   _7q_o   __,_w >   4_ 
         /   (_)  .   (         / c            :    (_./                . 

  ..    |   @ |                             .          :    |       |  . . 
; __,_w |   _ |_   >   q_7  ,  . _o    . _8 >    >  , q_  > |_      |,_p_9 
         (_S   : /     /c     (_)     (_)      /      /      :  (_S        

                           .   |  .       |  |.       : . / c       ~     
                       .  _9 q_|_,_    .  |  | _8   4_,_9_)_w    .  |   _ 
                         /   /   :    (_)  /  /                 (_)    /. 

             . =             .                        ..  c               
      ,  o   ]_)_,_o    o_,_w_    .  q_7  ,  . _  _   __,_w_8_    . _   > 
        (  /     :     (  :      (_) /c     (_): /.          .   (_): /   

        |        | c . |     =      . .      ~              | .     |     
      ? |     .  |_w_9 |   |_)  o ]_,_7   .  |   o  _    .  |_e_o   |  4_7
         /   (_)          (|             (_)    (  /.   (_)       /     c 


                                           c                .             
                                        _,_w_o    .  q ]_  _9  --         
                                   (_S / :       (_) /  : /               

>Moreover, in comparison with the works of "Molavi", "Khayam", "Ferdowsi",
>"Farabi", "Irajmirza", "Hafaz", "Obad Zakani", "Atar", "Ali Akbar Dah Khoda",
>"Araf Qsvini", ....
  ^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmmm... I didn't know he was Qazvini!

    [cowjive deleted]

>...With the same
>taken the aforementioned poem is an insignificant and trivial in Persian
>Language.  Expressing the same idea in an informal language, " it sucks". -:)

Thanks for sharing your grey poupon with us!

>                  With highest regards,
>                       Babak   Sehari.

    --mack
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: javad@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Agha Javad)
Subject: Re: Naghdi bar SCI in 92 (episode 2)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:32:48 GMT
Organization: Labaniyati-ye-Sar-e-Koocheh

In article <1993Jan25.173828.17757@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> farhad@CS.Stanford.EDU (Farhad Shakeri) writes:
>In article farzin@apollo3.ntt.jp (Farzin Mokhtarian) writes:
>|> Subject: Re: Naghdi bar SCI in 92 (episode 2)
>
>
>|> But we all know what you mean. I have dared to say a few things that
>|> your "non-radical" types don't dare say. After all, as Ala once said,
>|> "people try to survive first" (may not be an exact quote).
>|> What do I mean? An example is my questioning of the recent AI report
>|> posted to SCI (to which there was no reply).  
>
>
>You should know very well when  MKO  post something  we take their
>news with some grain of salt.  
>
>I have talked to AI and they did say, the news from Iran only comes
>from MKO and they do take it with some grain of salt too.
>
>It is noted at the bottom of each of their messages about IRAN!
>
>

It may very well be that AI receives allegations from MKO, and I agree, MKO
is not exactly my idea of a reliable source.  But AI does not accuse
a government of doing such things, but rather expresses concern regarding
these allegations, and asks that government to account for the well being
of specifice cases in question, and/or to allow international organizations
such as AI to see for themselves that torture and human rights violations
are not occurring.  When a government refuses to do this, it only lends
legitimacy to the allegations, causing more concern, and so on.  It has not
been until recently that the IRI gov't has allowed any independent person to 
visit Evin prison, and even then the report was unfavorable.  Let me also
remind everyone that for a while, IRI was even at odds with the international
red cross, and accusing them of instigating riots among Iraqi POW's!  I'm sorry,
but AI and the international red cross are not quite your imperialist 
colonialist organizations with military motives, and when it comes to 
credibility, AI's record is MUCH better than IRI's.  Furthermore, please
keep in mind that Dr. GalindoPohl is allowed to visit prisons now, in a day
when the opposition has been totally uprooted from Iran, and there are few
people left to kill and torture besides "drug dealers".  You can be sure that
he has missed the bulk of the action.

So I guess the answer to Farzin's question is that AI does not guarantee the
truth of the complaints that it receives, but it expresses concern if it
receives enough of them.  The gov't refuses to properly address these concerns,
and makes itself look bad even if it is not.  Furthermore, the AI report in 
question used official IRI statistics themselves as well, which are a best case
estimate of how many people are killed/arrested, etc. I hope this helps.

>
>|>                              
>|>  - Farzin                  
>|>                 
>
>-- 
 Agha Javad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: shahrokh@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Shahrokh M.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Is there an interpreter in the house?
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:19:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University, CA   USA

In article <C1J21n.L7G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

most of my points have already been made by aref, javad, farshid, ...
just a few comments...

>
>The same thing that I said with regard to Iranian girls do apply to
>Iranian men.

i at least appreciate your consistency ala (that 'both iranian women
*and* men are too good for americans').

>All I say is that casual relationships are not in the
>beat inetrest of people whether Iranian, American, Indian or etc.  

you dont know whether that persons question was in regards to casual dating
or not.  maybe they love each other, want to get married, and he
just wanted to do something sweet like tell his future wife 'i love
you' in farsi. i dont know it either, but i gave him the benefit
of the doubt.  you assumed the worst.  maybe their kid will grow up to
be the next president or a nobel prize receipient!  why be so
judgemental and jump to conclusions...

>If these words are only going to be used as a means of attracting the 
>opposite sex 			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
or... (i dont know *how* i came up with this wild and crazy idea,
but...) perhaps those words were actually going to be used to express, ummm,
ehhhh, ummmm, .... true LOVE maybe?

> then it is not appropriate to discuss it here in SCI.  
						  ^^^^^ 
that 'C' stands for 'culture'.  interracial relationships are very
*much* cultural issues and worthy of discussion in sci.  

>I did not say there is a problem with saying "i love you".
>I did not approve of teaching others what they may not put into good use.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i dont know which iranian women youve been socializing with, but
believe me, they definitely arent 'sAdeh' like you portray them to be.
your argument is as invalid as saying: "dont tell kids about human 
reproduction, cuz they may 'put it to bad use' ".

>I serously doubt that this country can survive a major crisis.  

oh come on, for a short 200 years, theyve certainly had their share of 
turbulent times too.  from colonial wars to civil wars, to ...  i'd say
going from a nonexistent nation to becoming the superpower in two short
centuries deserves a tiny itsy bitsy little credit.

>This is a very young nation and have deep ills that have not been able 
>to solve and may not ever be solved.

at least they have an excuse for their deep ills: they are a young nation
as you say.  whats *our's* ???

>Don't take it personal.  If I said something it was out of care for
>Iran and Iranians.  I did not mean to put you down.

none taken... two people (one traditionalist and one after the best of both 
worlds) are simply expressing their points of view.

>Ala

ps if you spell your name backwards, its more correct (sci-wise)...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: etxmajz@solsta-c.solsta.ericsson.se (Majid Zolfaghari  TX/DKG)
Subject: Re: Environmentalist in Farsi
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB, Karlstad, Sweden.
	<ETXMAJZ.93Jan20094332@solsta-c.solsta.ericsson.se>
	<20JAN93.11659855.0078@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:46:28 GMT


> I have seen that the Farsi equivalent for "environmental" is "Zeast
>  Mohiti" So what do you think if for "Environmentalist" we use the
> word " Zeast Mohit Gera " , Pessar Amoo

Not bad, but the problem is to get people to speak in that way!

Majid Zolfaghari
etxmajz@solsta.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: bsadeghi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Behzad Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Its nice to come home again
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:11:47 GMT

In article <C1GtAw.I2p@encore.com> samiri@encore.com (Soheila Amiri) writes:
>
>They say "better late than never".  I have been so quiet, minding my
>own buisiness all this time and I reply once to something I consider
>to be relatively flame proof, and what happens?  here comes Behzad,
>like a bat out of hell, critisizing me on not one but two points.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:-) that's what we're here for soheila. just trying to make you 
feel at home. it's reeeeeeallly nice to see you back.

>
>I tell you.  Its so nice to be appreciated :-).  I can see how much
>everyone has missed me.
>
>I thing I should go back to being my usual self and flame the hell out
>of anyone who dares to even mention my name ;-).

i think you just did. or was this just a sample? anyway, sci isn't
the same without OLD-timers ;-) like you.

>
>Soheila
>
>BTW: My answer is absolutely correct.

i think the correct answer was nokhost. there was a long discussion   
of the answer that you must have missed.

btw, the golden pass gardani has a long story behind it that you
once again must have missed, or maybe don't remember. i know how
it is with age and all, the first thing that goes is the memory.

behzad
From: arashk@athena.mit.edu (Arash Komeili)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Cruise Missiles (pesar amoo)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 23:18:06 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: w20-575-27.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan25.090209.4942@sei.cmu.edu>, psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

|> >3) The U.S. reason for doing this was to control Iran.
|> 
|> This I believe, but whether or not it is the US controlling Iran, someone
|> probably should do something about a government that will put out a public
|> death threat against a man for exercising his right to free speech.  
|> 
|> You have no idea how I spend my time defending Iran to moronic Americans who
|> can't acknowledge anything good about your country--but then I have to put up
|> with Iranians defending their own inherently moronic government.  I like the
|> fact that the US can't really get its claws into the middle east, it's too
|> tough to handle, but it really would also be nice if the middle east would
|> stop appointing insane and repugnant men to government as well.
        ^^^^^^^^^^ 

Hey most of the time we don't even have a choice.  Everyone talks about middle
east stability when the present boundaries of the middle eastern countries were
basically drawn up by the British and the French.  They made deals with tribal
leaders and made sure that they came to power.  There is a story about Jordan and
what is called Churchil's hiccup.  I think on the map the eastern or southern
border of Jordan is a staight line except this one part that it goes crazy.  The
story is that Mr. Churchil was drawing the border and had a hiccup which made him
screw up the straight line.  Whether or not there is any truth to that story is
not relevant.  The fact that the modern middle east has always been under the
influence and control of the superpowers is what this comes down to.  Iran like a
lot of other countries has been under the superpowers' control for a long time(I
think from the time of the Safavids).  So even though the power of the people is
formidable it is often no match for foreign control.  The majority of us don't
like (actually despise) our government but I don't think you should blame us for
its existence.  And I think you misunderstood the person's comments on the war. 
Eventhough we don't like our government we have no choice but to defend what is
ours.  Saddam was our government's enemy but he was also our people's enemy. 
Many innocent people who died under bombs and missiles probably hated IRI.  They
did not deserve what happened and both the Iraqi and Iranian governemnt as well
as any others who supported the war for whatever reason are responsible for the
deaths of those innocent people.

Arash
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: bsadeghi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Behzad Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: new books
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 14:42:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.214458.11163@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> javad@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Agha Javad) writes:
>

 [part of the article has been deleted]

>
>I find it very sad that a country like ours which has such a strong culture,
>a wealth of natural resources, so much talent and brains, and such a long
>history and rich civilization, when faced with the choice between advancing, 
>developing and prospering vs. going back to the 6th century, is forced to
>choose the latter. May the fascists one day pay in full for what they have 
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>done to our country.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

just out of curiosity, agha javad, how should these "fascists" pay
in full, in your opinion? i would be interested to know.

>
>
>ghorbAn-e-shoma,
>
>Agha Javad

behzad

Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian