From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: ga.general
Subject: Re: Warning: Religion!
Keywords: religion, state
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:00:32 GMT
Distribution: ga
Organization: Digital Systems Co., Atlanta GA

In  <1992Aug14.141612.29066@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> oaa@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (owen.a.alexander) writes:
}In article <65878@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0418c@prism.gatech.EDU (Shane Wm. McWhorter) writes:
}>I hope it is OBVIOUS to the other readers of this group that I do
}>not have something against "Christianity," but something against
}>a government agency enforcing with a police force, the religious
}>beliefs of others.
}
}Okay, let me try to understand your point.  Because the law stipulates
}Sunday, then you assume that the law is there because of the religious
}belief of others.  If the law said Monday, then I guess we would not be
}having this discussion, right?

And I suppose that Sunday was the *randomly* chosen day for
Chick-fil-A to be closed, right? :-)
  Ok, let's make Monday or Wednesday the day that alcohol sales are
illegal, and then see who screams the loudest.

}[...] Would you exclude
}any of the following from being a religion?
}
}   - Christianity - the religion derived from Jesus Christ based on the
}                    Bible as sacred scripture
}   - Satanism - obsession with or affinity for evil
}   - Humanism - a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human
}                interests or values
}   - Atheism - the doctrine that there is no diety

How you "slice the pie" regarding definitions here is very
revealing in terms of your indoctrination, Owen.

1) What would you say if someone described themselves as a
Christian Humanist?  I know a number of people who describe
themselves that way..  (Better check your history of post-Biblical
Christian writing before you answer.)

2) Where would you place the Cathari and related movements?  As
Christians or as Satanists?  (Then you'd better check on how you
feel about various current-day charismatic movements.)

3) Do you classify all non-Christian religions as expressions of
Satanism (by your own definition)?  i.e., practicing Jews,
Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.  (Better check your answer
against those sects whose doctrines insist that all non-Christian
belief is "evil.")

}I could argue that these are all religions.

And most secular humanists and atheists will argue that their
beliefs do not constitute a "religion" no more than an ardent
belief in "free speech" creates a Church of Free Speechism or a
a firmly held belief in the value of public education implies
a "Church of Public Education" -- there are many "strongly held
beliefs," which, though organized or even institutionalized, do
not constitute a "religion," in spite of Webster.

}Which one do you not want
}imposed upon you.  Do you not want Atheism imposed on you?  If you went
}to public school you could not bring a Bible, or pray openly.  Satanists
}feel that their "rights" are being imposed because our laws limit their
}ability to do evil.  Atheists want God removed from our laws, even
}though the Bill of Rights reference God several times.

Wrong on the last count.  Besides, if you want God to remain in
our laws, which God should we leave there?

On the public school issue, a story from a former Scoutmaster,
years ago:  He was Catholic at a time when a faithful practice of
Catholicism prohibited him from participating in religious
services of other religions, including other Christian sects.
While a student at a public school, the school had organized a
student asembly which was to be a religious service -- Protestant
in nature (though I don't recall which denomination).  He could
not, in light of his faith, attend the service, even as a
non-participant.  When he refused to do so, he was threatened
with expulsion from school -- extensive threat and coercion -- in
spite of the explanation that his religion prohibited him from
attending.
  This is just one clear example of why we should not have
school-organized prayer or religious services in school.  Among
other things, it is to protect the integrity of an individual's
belief, in this case, one who was clearly Christian.  (Unless you
happen to lump Catholicism in with your Satanism definition, which
*some* people claiming Christianity seem to do.)

}The point I want to make is that everyone has a set of beliefs
}and principles that they hold to and that all laws are based on someone
}beliefs of what's right/fair/proper.  So there is no way to not have
}someone's "religious" beliefs imposed upon yourself.  Unless you wish to
}become a dictator :-)

Read your history, Owen.  The instances of religious persecution
at the hands of civil authorities is extensive over the centuries
and with probably more rife *between* Christian sects than between
religions with greater differences, even.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

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