HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:19:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.172601.1739@midway.uchicago.edu>, pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson) writes in part:
|> positing the existence of a God who gets his kicks by deceiving us.
|> 
|> Decartes proved the impossibility of this, but that was after Columbus's time.

Boy does that comment take me back!  Since you just gave me such a fine
jolt of nostalgia for those old pals of mine from that long winter's
course in history of philosophy, I'll reframe from blasting you for
telling such a porky about what old Rene said.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: 003316g@ace.acadiau.ca (STEPHEN EDWARD ELLIOTT GREGORY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: 2-mile long gun
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:20:44 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <92283.104730U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 10:47:30 CDT
>From: <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>
>Subject: 2-mile long gun
>On the local radio station newscast about 2-3 days ago there was
>a short 30 second story about the government construction a 2 mile long
>"gun" to propel things to the moon.  Any thoughts?(i.e. shooting down
>objects in the sky as opposed to actually shooting things to the moon)
>Ethan Haslett
>u37460@uicvm.uic.edu

	I would think that if such a gun did exist it would be very dificult 
to aim so shooting tings out of the sky, especially moving obects, would be 
near impossible. If you want to find out more a believe there is an ALT.
PHYSICS group or something similar, they probably could tell you about it.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Organization: just me
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:00:03 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic

In article <1992Oct11.000504.24729@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct10.030142.16987@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us 
>(Joshua Geller) writes:
>
>>>the alignments themselves? well, if these structures are natural, then they 
>>>are of no significance. but if these structures are artificial,  then they
>>>are probably very significant. 
>
>>Care to enlighten us at to the nature of this "probable significance"?
>
>assuming that these structures are artificial and thta they are aligned 
>astronomically, then this could imply a lot about the cultural and scientific
>context of the architects of these structures. it would also allow as to
>speculation as to when mars was last inhabited (assuming that the alignments
>coincide with the last time mars had a brathable atmosphere and free water).

Breathable to whom?  Why free water?  Why not free Ammonia?

We have built long-term spacecraft which survive in no atmosphere with no
free water.  Can't the aliens seal their buildings after traveling all the
way here?

If I build a grass hut tomorrow, what will its "scientific context" be?  How
about its cultural context, given that I am an American?

What would make any one astronomical alignment more important than another?
I would think that with a hemisphere of stars, we could detect a lot of
alignments.  And why would a space-going civilization care, *necessarily*,
about where the Sun rises in another system?  We don't plan moonbases on
the basis of astronomical alignments, what gives you good cause to believe
they would?

Sounds like your thesis will work best with an air-breathing, space-going
water-based creature with Neolithic religious beliefs and a fascination
with low-tech monoliths constructed entirely of local materials.  Heck, they
couldn't even place one solar-powered wide-band transmitter in orbit...They
just move some Martian soil.

I am skeptical, but then this is the right place for that...:-)

David Pipes
robear@digex.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Subject: Re: Comments on Berkeley Symposium
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:52:52 GMT


In article <1992Oct12.044151.10664@netcom.com>, rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes...
> 
>  The highlight of symposium for me was John Salter.  He expressed the 
>way I feel about ETs better then I could myself.
> 
>  "No creature that is intelligent and has the right values is
>   an alien to me."
> 
> 
>-- 
>==========================================================================
>            Robert K. Rouse		rkrouse@netcom.com
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "VOTE! - use it or lose it" 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


I agree with him..

Mary Stanley

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po
From: rshah@evax12.eng.fsu.edu (RAVIKUMAR A. SHAH)
Subject: Re: guns and criminals
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: rshah@evax12.eng.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computing Center
Date: 13 OCT 92 21:33:09    

In article <5RiePB4w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us>, rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) writes...
>swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter) writes:
> 
>> In article <exukjb.58.713455643@exu.ericsson.se> exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken 
>> 
>> the only use for ti kwon leep is self defense. you know who said that?
>> Ki Lo Ni, the Great Teacher.
>> 
>> oh, yeah?  well,
>> >The best defense is a good offense;
>> you know who said that?  Mel, the cook on "Alice!"
>> 
>> 
>> shannon the mouthy pushy ranting broad channeling the Frantics.
>> 
>> >Kenny Bell                          *        Welcome to Mind Wars
>> >Ericsson Network Systems, Inc       *        Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907
>> >P.O. Box 833875                     *        Severity with oneself is herois
>> >Richardson, TX 75083-3875           *        --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 194
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>When you reply to this message, how about NOT CROSS-POSTING to the
>"alt.alien.visitors" newsgroup?  I am sure many of you have different
>software, but I am sure most (if not all) software packages have the
>ability to change the groups a message is posted to.  Try this:
>"follow newsgroup1, newsgroup2, etc.".  That may not be the commands
>you will have to use, but I am sure there is a like command.
> 
>Someone began cross-posting messages concerning gun control to the
>alt.alien.visitors group and others simply reply to same without
>changing any of the groups the messages are posted to.  I am guilty
>of same.  Let's all try to be a little more considerate of others.
> 
>******************************************************************************
>"Camelot" BBS		rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us
>PRIVATE SYSTEM		
>Fidonet address		ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org
>VOICE #			504-436-1826
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:44:09 GMT

In article <1239@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>|That is where I think that Columbus gets the credit, IMHO.
>
>The sailors *knew* the Earth was round.  You can *see* ships dip below
>the horizon in the distance (at least with a telescope, which they had).

Nope. The telescope wasn't invented until approx 1600, Galileo first
used it around 1610. Columbus was more than a century earlier.

Of course, you CAN see ships (or islands or mountains) dip below the
horizon even without one.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: SEX with aliens
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:59:08 GMT

     I recently had sex with an alien. The alien in question lives in my 
room. He is yurple in color (yellow with purple polkadots) and he emanates 
facts at me. For example, I know that he is from the planet xenon, and is 
rather small for his age. (600 yrs) He is just an adolescnt, as this species 
of animal (or I should say, alien intelligence) lives to be four thousand 
years of age. He weighs about ninety pounds. (I carried him to the scale) He 
does'nt come in any particular shape, he merely takes on the shape of his 
environment. (He can change shape at will) He doesn't seem to have many 
bones, just a jaw with sharp teeth. He likes to eat, on occasion. (about 
every two weeks he polishes off an entire jar of of peanut butter. He seems 
to prefer creamy jif as opposed to crunchy.) 
     The strange thing about this alien, other than the fact that he usually 
hangs out with me all the time, is that he is empathetic to all my desires, 
and that he is a doppleganger. For example, last night, I saw a television 
show that was all about me! It was a news show, and the newscasters kept 
saying things when I wasn't listening clearly about things I'd been doing, 
reporting secretly to the rest of the population about what I'd been up to! 
Then, during a commercial, the women started screaming about Tater Tots (tm) 
and a few Radioactive Tater Tots (tm) fell on the rug! It was then that I 
got some sexual feelings for a woman that I saw in the hospital earlier 
today. Then, the yurple (that's what I call him) changed into the woman I 
was seeing earlier, and we had sex. The odd thing about is that the yurple, 
I think, I'm not sure, bit off my penis and swallowed it! It grew back the 
next day, but now I'm not sure what to do about the yurple.

                                 Gumby
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:59:34 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets

According to cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (C J Rogers (Chris)):
>According to mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu:
>>The mindset of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim,
>>what is the evidence for it?"
>
>WRONG!!  That is a cynic.

WRONG!!  (As you would say.)  A cynic is a person who does not believe
that humanity has an innate goodness; he therefore considers all
actions to be, in the end, manifestations of selfishness and greed.

Cynicism and skepticism are entirely separate qualities, excpet
insofar as skeptics may tend toward cynicism after seeing all the
scams perpertrated daily by con men everywhere.

>The point being that people held one belief and were so unwilling to
>give a stroke of possibility to the opposition that they place money
>against it.

Pshaw!  By this reasoning, if I were to bet that Old Gray Nag would
win the Kentucky Derby, it must be because I am unwilling to consider
that she might possibly lose!  What poppycock!

All a bet shows is the bettor's idea of the _chances_ of a given
outcome, not his unwillingness to consider other alternatives.  In
fact, a good bettor _must_ consider alternatives, or else he is
throwing his money away.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "I am truly as big a genius as all other Rush fans." -- Bruce Bufalini
From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:13:50 GMT
Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe

In article <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> Null Cypher writes:
> 
> Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better.
> 
> Let's take a vote.

Before taking any other vote we should vote an official vote taker.

--
The Clone of Claudio Calvelli
From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: 11 Oct 92 08:37:57 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

John Winston writes:
>Dear People: Please disregard all of the letters behind my name. My
>computer is acting up. I woke up with what I consider to be a profound
>thought and that is WE ARE ALL ALIENS. By that I mean that we as a
>civilization did not originate or evolve on this particular planet.
>John Winston.
Woo, Joh, you gotta stop drinking that Mt. Shasta berry juice.  Besides this
isn't exactly a new idea.  Remember Battlestar Galactica.  I even had a dream
years ago in which I was one of pilots that piloted the first ships to EArth.
Waaaay before Battlestar Galactica.  Keep those aliens smiling! =:0 Colleen
--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:57:06 GMT
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Oct06.220443.142310@zeus.calpoly.edu> swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) writes:
>$100 says that the sun will not explode next week
>-- 
No bet. I can't get my "special weapon" working by next week. Maybe in a 
month? :)

-- 
For those who hate looking at .sig* files, hit <n>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: auras
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:21:01 GMT
Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com


Kathy, this doesn't clear anything up. I can say I see little white
kangaroos hoping around me, that doesn't mean I'm sober ;).

What do you see exactly. Plize, no "Well, a kind of light around the head
of people". Try and be constructive. I'm very willing to believe you.
ever considered some simple tests ?(read Randi's books for a simple, conclusive
design. There's a big reward if you can convince him !).
I mean, if I could see "auras", I would definitly go and see doctors and
convince them !!! 


> Kathie  ;.)


JM.

JM,

I will try to explain this the best that I can.

The first thing I see is a trace around a person's body.  It is usually about
1 inch around them.  Then I see a wave of energy moving off of the first layer.

You know when it is hot outside, and you can see heat coming off the street.  It
comes in like waves, well that is what the second layer looks like, and sometimes
I can see colors in this wave.  It depends on the person's feelings and how in
tuned to them I am.  Also what kind of back ground is behind them.  The third
layer, and I have only seen the third layer a few times, is when I can see their
spirit guide around them.  The third layer doesn't show up for me all the time.

But there have been a few times when I have seen the third layer.  It is an awesome
sight.

Does this make it any easier for you?

Thanks,

Kathie
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: durocher@dali.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Phil)
Subject: Belgium UFO observation - 7 Apr 1990
Summary: looking for a copy of image file from Ecole militaire royal
Keywords: sighting belgium image processing Liege
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 05:00:39 GMT

Yesterday's tv show "le Point" in Montreal,QC,Canada showed a good review
of some major past events supporting the existence of extra-terrestrial
visits to our world.

One part of the show dealt with the recent (90's) Belgium interest in the
phenomenon, due to a wave of observations that brought together the civilian
organization SOBEPS and the belgium air force.

On April 7th, 1990 nearby Liege, Belgium, a color slide of a ufo was taken
that was later on analysed by the "Ecole militaire royale" under the 
supervision of prof Marc Acheroy.

The slide, after having been digitalized, was image processed to render new
information, one of importance being the shape of the object through blue
color enhancement.

I would like to know if the data file of this famous belgium UFO picture is
available, if anyone knows the internet address of either the prof  or the
military college I mention.

I would like to use that picture in an image processing course here, merging
several interests into one endeanvour.

-- 
---
Phil Durocher                   McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
durocher@mcrcim.mcgill.edu      Computer Vision and Robotics Lab
                                McGill University, Montreal
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantasy
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:54:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.040316.26314@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> cschmidt@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Christopher Schmidt) writes:
>
>My preference would be to persuade contributors to discipline
>themselves.  If your article falls in one of the following categories,
>many of us think it would be better to find some other place for it:
>
>(1) Articles that are clearly off the subject.  This would include
>    almost any discussion of abortion, and a lot more besides.
>
>(2) Most articles that contain a statement of opinion and nothing
>    else, usually regarding some point in a previous article.
>    Example: A long section of material quoted from a previous
>    article, followed by "I agree" or words to that effect.  When you
>    post an article, imagine that you are speaking to a group of 5000
>    people, and ask yourself whether you think they are all truly
>    interested in whether you personally agree with some particular
>    thing someone else said previously.
>
>(3) Articles that consist of either a joke or a statement of ridicule
>    and nothing else.  These articles are usually especially punitive
>    to us readers, because they typically consist of many lines of
>    quoted material followed by just one or two lines of original
>    material, usually some kind of joke that probably seemed
>    frightfully amusing to its creator at the time but that has no
>    entertainment value for anyone else.
>
>I realize that to some extent this article sets out rules about what
>not to say, and that what I propose might therefore be viewed by some
>as a form of censorship, and I am sorry about that.  I hope we all
>work together to improve this newsgroup.
>
>Christopher Schmidt
>Waltham, Massachusetts, USA
>cschmidt@lynx.northeastern.edu

FAQ people, grab this and integrate it with what you are doing. 

Gregg.


-- 
Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
planet.
This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:47:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.030142.16987@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>the alignments themselves? well, if these structures are natural, then they 
>are of no significance. but if these structures are artificial,  then they
>are probably very significant. 

I don't think so.  (That refers to the first part)
If these structures are natural, they can be used as an example to point at.
"Remember that Mars face?  Do you again want to make a fool of yourself?"
OK, it's not a real argument, but perhaps it can break through some
defenses of closed-mindedness.

--
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
...and then the dragon ate the princess and the knight, and he lived happily
ever after.   -- Grandma Addams telling Wednesday a story (paraphrased)
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:7262 sci.skeptic:17667
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:51:53 GMT
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
=schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
=
=>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural
=>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the 
=>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to
=>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on
=>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect 
=>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing,
=>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...)
=
=sure, that sounds good.
=
=you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the
=camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these
=provocative photos. another valid point that you raise is that the verdict
=might be 'insufficient evidence'.

First of all, there'd be damned little point in making a camera with a 2-meter
resolution if you couldn't aim the damned thing, now wouldn't there?

=the 'face' by itself, to me, wouldn't be all that exciting. the geometric
=relationships between the 'face', 'city', 'D&M pyramid', 'fortress', 'straight
=wall' etc are what, to me, raises the possibility that these might be 
=artificial constructions.

Second, you both seem to be forgetting about the laser altimeter.

=one of the more interesting points in hoagland's book is his statement that
=half a million years ago the (solstitial? either that or equinoctial) sun
=rose over the 'wall' and 'face' as seen from the center of the 'city'. has
=anyone else bothered to work this out?

What if it's true.  For *ANY* arragement anywhere close to what we see, you'd
get the same result.  The only difference would be the length of time you'd
have to go back before you found your "remarkable coincidence."  Or does
Hoagland claim to have somehow dated the alleged face?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: CANADIANS - MAN ALIVE (CBC TELEVISION) <<-- Read!
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 11:40:07 CST
Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada

Tuesday, October 13th, 1992: Watch Man Alive for a special on "People who 
have reported encounters with UFOs." Lasts 1 hour.  It starts at 8pm 
over here, but check your local listnings for times in your area.  It's
on CBC nation-wide television.  Hope it's good!
 
Titan
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors