From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: Observations from a male student
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 06:33:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.214241.28664@ils.nwu.edu> lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>I'm not sure where he would stand on the latter case, but he has clearly
>stated (at least here) that he's talking about cases where a poster of a woman
>in a bikini and a reproduction of a Goya was considered harassment.
>
>These are not the same as those you present.  (Possibly the Goya one IS the
>same, but I don't think so).

The problem that I have with discussing posters as sexual harassment
is that severe sexual harassment tends to be ignored while some men
appear to only focus on their right to have photos of naked (or nearly
naked) women in their offices.  I included those two real cases as an
example of what sexual harassment can be.

>The former case merely fits the physical assault that Bronis clearly thinks is
>wrong.
>
>Do YOU think:
>
>1.  a Goya reproduction in a general work area would be harassment?

I don't know.  The female prof seemed to think her power was
diminished by having to lecture before a picture of a naked woman.
Would a male prof feel similarly about an explicit male nude?  Would a
black prof's power be diminished by paintings of the old South showing
slaves in the field?

Something similar occurred here at Stanford at the coffeehouse on
campus.  The coffeehouse often has paintings, photos, etc. by student
artists.  One painting was a female nude with her legs spread, but
apparently not a Hustler-type pose.  A female grad student complained
about it and it was removed.  Her point was that she often went there
with the other (all male) grad students in her group and her prof and
she thought it was inappropriate for such a setting.  The general
feeling seemed to be that she was wrong.

I do know, though, when one prof used a photo of two nude men
wrestling in a safety presentation, several men said they thought it
was inappropriate and embarassing.

>2.  a bikini poster in someone's own office would be harrasment?

I think it can be.  I remember when I was a co-op student being told
of one group leader who had Playboy centerfolds on one wall of his
office.  Nearly every woman who worked in that group mentioned how
much they hated going in his office for anything.  More than a few men
thought it was pretty disgusting.  

Is it sexual harassment if women have to go into the office and hate
it?  If they say that they felt that he was staring at their breasts
all the while he talked with women?

Different people handle situations differently.  My older sister had
mentioned several times that one of her (male) supervisors grabbed his
crotch repeatedly in meetings, while talking with women.  She and the
other nurses talked about it amongst themselves and couldn't decide if
he did it unknowingly, did it to embarass them, or what.  He finally
stopped doing it when a newly hired (female) nurse noticed him doing
it and asked if he needed to go to the bathroom "to adjust his
privates."  I suppose it was just a bad habit that he didn't realize
he had, but he had embarassed many women (and scared more than a few)
for a couple of years.

Newsgroups: alt.feminism