From: engelsma@golden.cps.msu.edu (Jonathan Engelsma (Reid))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Elections
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:34:22 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University

In article <92307.121400ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET>, <ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
|> Since my article was submitted in a public domain, I'd appreciate a free
|> and open exchange of opinions.  Disclaimers, etc. apply.
|>

Sorry, I did mean to followup in s.c.n., but evidently I hit my reply
button instead of followup....
 
|> Jonathan Engelsma| (engelsma@cps.msu.edu) writes:
|> 
|> #In article <92305.135903ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET>, you write:
|> #|> The prevailing opinion of Dutch students at BYU, is that Bush = BU-ll-SH-it
|> #|> Based on results (like vetoing the "family leave bill" and the "catastrophi
|> #|> healthcare bill"), Bush's social awareness cq. compassion sucks big time.
|> #|>
|> #|> I am appalled and saddened that an out-of-touch leader like Bush is still
|> #|> doing so well in the polls. Trickle down economics, alias foodoo economics,
|> #|> alias reaganomics, has made the rich richer and the poor poorer. I am
|> #|> sickened to see more and more people beg for donations to cover healthcare
|> #|> costs for a child who happened to be born with a "pre-existing condition,"
|> #|> like congenial heart defects.  And since Republicans have effectively
|> #|> frustrated attempts to move towards a "gentler" healthcare system, you will
|> #|> continue to see children die needlessly.  The facts show it: America ranks
|> 
|> #Yes, even before they are born!!  I think you have the political parties
|> #mixed up Casper.... its the democrats who are advocating the murder of
|> #children.
|> 
|> Children? --You mean zygotes/fertilized blobs of cells?  The Democrats,
|> to my knowledge, do *not* advocate "murder of children," (since when are
|> embryos recognized as individuals (i.e. legal personhood) for the law??)
|> but advocate CHOICE.  You may not like an individual's choice (say under
|> Roe vs. Wade), but at least it is the individual's choice, and NOT yours.
|> 
|> To use your line of logic, the Republicans "advocate the murder of
|> pregnant women who choose an abortion, since banning abortion rights will
|> invariably force women to back-alley abortions/unsanitary conditions."
|>

And since having automobiles on the roads will invariable result in accidents
leading to death we should ban automobiles??  I don't think thats my line
of logic...  
  
|> I do not necessarily endorse the Democrats/the Clinton-Gore ticket, but,
|> -given their social/utilitarian (= "the greatest good for the greatest
|> number of people") philosophy, they may initialize some needed and long-
|> awaited changes in domestic policies, HEALTHCARE being perhaps the most
|> pressing of them all.
|> 
|> |> e.g. (compared with other industrialized nation) at the bottom of infancy
|> |> mortality, and has the largest un(der)insured population (30-35 million)
|> |> of them all.  Way to go, Republicans, you create ghetto's and third world
|> |> conditions for millions of your own citizens (for which you don't give a
|> |> f--k), while you pamper the rich, allow the streets to be saturated with
|> |> guns (the 2nd Amendment justification), and wonder why America has become
|> |> the most violent and unequal society in the West?  Hmmm?
|> |>
|> 
|> 
|> #I'm surprised you have managed to survive in this cruel society as long
|> #as you have.  Perhaps you should pack your bags and head down to Bolivia
|> #where I hear the living standards are much better.  Yeah I know its hard
|> #to buy the plane ticket when you only make a $1 a week.  I've got a better
|> #idea, maybe you could hitchhike to Mexico, thats not to far from Utah.
|> 
|> Dear chap, I've "survived" quite handsomely in this society, and done
|> quite well.  There are enough good, rewarding and redeeming qualities in
|> this nation for me and my family to make it a great place to live in.
|>
 
OK, I didn't mean to imply you were out collecting cans or something. The
point I was trying to make was that I am tired of the media and other folks
painting this incredibly bleak picture of the USA, and completely ignoring
the fact that this country and society does have its positive characteristics.

|> Your crap about Bolivia doesn't do justice about the urgent need for
|> educational, healthcare, tax, gun, social, etc. reforms in America.  You
|> cannot be so naive to deny that (unless of course you are) certain things
|> are bad and getting worse.  Indeed, the world has much to gain -and has
|> gained- from America, but I would submit to you that this nation needs
|> to look how other nations (e.g. Canada) have dealt with said issues.
|> If this nation does not do that, it will create millions of second class
|> citizens/third world-like regions, and I think we can do better.
|> 
|> Much better.
|> 

Agreed on the latter statement, and on the part about things going from
bad to worse.  Also, I think the American people can 
(and must)  do their part.  To expect the new administration to magically 
turn things around while we sit and watch is expecting the impossible.  

|> 
|> Casper.

Jonathan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands