HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rob@watney.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere)
Subject: Re: Dealing with Jump shock (Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:30:44 GMT

In article <104770002@otter.hpl.hp.com> tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
writes: 
>Right. Obvious isn't it. At least to any competent engineer. But God got it
>wrong in the human eye. This is a superb way of demonstrating either the
>non-existence of God or that God is fundamentally incompetant. Take your choice.

It's strange feeling for an atheist to be defending God, but this doesn't
follow.  In order to judge competence, you have to know both the goal and the
constraints on the methods.

SR
---

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: origin of c-words (was Re: Gibson's _agrippa_: Not A Hoax
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:01:44 GMT

Joel.Rosenberg@f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes:

>You're wrong; the term was invented by Bruce Bethke for the story of the 
>same name, which appeared in print before anybody applied it to Gibson and 
>his coterie -- a fact which irritates the cyberminorpunkies to no end.

Actually -- it's a little more complex than that.  The story *HADN'T* 
appeared in print at the time the cp (hey, it's "pc" spelled sdrawkcab!)
movement was given its name.  It had, however, been submitted to -- and
rejected by -- Gardner Dozois.

Gardner has sworn he didn't remember the story when he took to calling the
"movement" by the name "cyberpunk."  On the other hand, it seems reasonable
to presume that he dredged it up from his deepfreeze.

Anyway:  there's no reason it should irritate "movement" writers, since
they didn't call themselves that anyway (except for very obvious commercial
purposes like the subtitles of the MIRRORSHADES antho); when they called
themselves anything it was "the movement" or "the mirrorshades gang" or "us."


		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:55:57 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Jul18.233515.28827@oracle.us.oracle.com> <691@tdat.teradata.COM>
	<1992Jul22.182247.25176@oracle.us.oracle.com>
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Jul22.182247.25176@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

   In article <691@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:

   [about `hiding out']

   >Also, in some cases where this sort of thing was tried, the ones doing it
   >*won* the war (read Vietnam).

   Note that we didn't have the will to nuke them.  That won;t be a
   problem in a Motie style disaster.

Do you really believe that would have helped?

The big problem for the US in Vietnam, if their goal was to perpetuate
their installed government, was that the majority of people in South
Vietnam hated that (right-wing dictatorship) government, and therefore
supported the insurgents, most of whom were South Vietnamese. Nuking
the people is not going to make them happier about their country being
steadily destroyed by your forces.

The only nuclear solution would have been to nuke the entire country
until it was a glassy plain.

`solution'?

(Of course some people don't believe that the US actually failed in
their goals in Vietnam, since the war was fought in order to prevent
the success of the various peasant movements, and said movements have
not been successful).

Whoops, bit off-subject there. I still believe the `hide-out' plan
could work for Moties to quicken the Cycles (and if the right Moties
hide out, possibly to stop the Cycles). They just need to find
somewhere sufficiently unguessable to hide in. I still think the Oort
cloud is the best bet.

Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers)
Subject: Re: Gibson's _agrippa_: Not A Hoax
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:33:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.184809.24166@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) wrote:
>The concept of cyberspace was first developed, as far as I know, in
>the Doctor Who episode, "The Deadly Assassin" in 1976, and as a written
>SF treatment by Vernor Vinge in his superb novella "True Names."

Frayn had a book out in the 60s, 'A Very Private Place' or something like that,
but it was more about telepresence. Still quite good, though.
-- 
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mike@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Date: 25 Jul 92 10:50:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Jul25.105022.10777
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 644-8135

In article <666@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:

>Or let's just take a historical case.  Do you really think that China
>could obliterate the USA?  They have more people, if dropping babies
>were all tha counted, they would.  But *efficiency* and *stability* 
>count more... [resource limits]

Bad example.  Birth control has rendered Malthus obsolete for human 
populations (Malthus noted that himself, but dismissed it as
a small-scale "vice" in his time).  Sure they can't obliterate us 
_now_, but your argument refers to change over generations.  Chinese 
population and (starting from way behind) economy have _both_ been growing 
much faster than the U.S. during the last two decades; at present rates 
their economy will be larger than the U.S. economy by 2060, and their 
military probably stronger.


-- 
szabo@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400, N81) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: "Bugs" in walk in the sun [SPOILERS] (Was: List of voters in ESF award so far)
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:59:43 GMT

I asked Landis about this very thing (running to the pole of the midnight
sun) after reading the story.

He says he did think about it, but decided not to do it.  Either pole would
do, since the lunar axis is not tilted greatly.  However, she spends the
entire race just ahead of the sun.   My intuition doesn't match this, but
he felt that chasing the terminator up the moon would, at first, require
a longer path, and perhaps one that was not as easy to pass.  I haven't
looked into it.

Anyway, right or wrong, he says he was aware of this option.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: Joel.Rosenberg@f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Serious Flaw In Hugo Voting (yet Another?)
Date: 20 Jul 92 16:02:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: tdkt.711701461.F00003

In a message to All <17 Jul 92 21:58> Aaron Humphrey writes in and says:

 AH> Current Read--Joel Rosenberg:D'Shai

Blessings upon your house.


 * Origin: The Terraboard, Minneapolis MN (1:282/341.0)
From: u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Science Fiction Book Club
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:43:10 GMT
Organization: The Shell

I was just wondering if the club allowed overseas membership, like to
here in Oz for example ?

-- 
    ___        |MOSH       'Wake up mislead children of wrath           
   /   \  THE  |FOR        Escape the consequence of the fire'          
  | O  | SNAIL |THE                                 Mortification     //
__\___/_____\/_|MASTER     u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au                   \X/
From: O1DSH@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Heck)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:44:24 GMT

I saw the recent post referencing Stephensons's _Snowcrash_, I've been
able to get some spare time to catch up on reading and thought I'd give
this a try.  Is anyone familiar with this author's work?

David
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pgf@srl01.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
Subject: Re: Dealing with Jump shock (Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:38:58 GMT

Okay, so electronics can't handle jump very well.

What happens if you build a difference engine type thingey
to guide your ship with?


--
Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: 318/365-5418
"There are still 201969 unread articles in 1278 groups" - nn message
"57 channels and nothing on" - Bruce Springsteen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:45:26 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <5640@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at> mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>From article <771@tdat.teradata.COM>, by swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen):
>> Yes, I believe the condensed form is called "Charli".
>> And, yes, the full length novel is better.
>
>I have to disagree.  The novella (or short story or whatever) was
>named "Flowers for Algernon" as well.  I found it leaner, better and
>more to the point.  Note also that it was written before the novel,
>not after.

"Charly" was, if memory serves, the title of the 1968 movie version which
garnered an Oscar for Cliff Robertson.

As for which version was the best, I have to admit a certain fondness for the
1990 stage version, performed masterfully in the lead role by one of the finest
classically-trained teenaged actors in the state of New Mecico.  (Well, ok, 
there were only two in the state.  So sue me...)


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
From: bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org (Barbara Haddad)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: help!  Book locations query
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:15:21 PST
Organization: Club Zen BBS - Fidonet/Internet - +1 408 734 2289

      Does anyone here have a list of the books that the writing team of 
jean & Jeff Sutton have written?  Are any still in print?  Where can I 
find any of them?  (PLease respond in mail so I don't miss the response). 
 Thanks!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Haddad -> (bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org)
From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:51:12 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

kellmer@u.washington.edu writes:=
%I've seen references to the term "SPACE OPERA"  as opposed to such things
%as hard sf, and even other types of sf.  What exactly defines something as
%"Space Opera?"

The best (and simplest) definition that I have read is that if a story
concerns events of galactic/universal importance, and only a handful of
people, then it is space opera. This includes all of the Doc Smith
books, but excludes _Foundation_ for example.

Rob

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________________
/                            |                                            \
|   Rob Turner, PC Support   |    email : Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk      |
|   Brunel University        |                                            |
|   London, England          | And me, with a brain the size of a planet. |
\____________________________|____________________________________________/
From: schrey@oak.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy M. Schreyer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:13:05 GMT
Organization: Paramax Systems

In article <9207291545.aa01713@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>, cumming@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Robert C. Cumming", PEO) writes:
|> 	Now my point is this: AWAKENINGS was based upon a real series of events
|> which occurred, I believe, in the 1950's.  Is it possible that the idea
|> for FFA/CHARLIE came from reading an account of the original experiment and
|> just substituting an intelligence-increasing drug for the L-Dopa?  There's
|> probably no way to know but it is an interesting speculation.
|> 
   The main difference I see between FFA and Awakenings is that the subject
   in Awakenings is still mentally active within his body but his body and
   brain won't allow him to express anything.  You may remember all the 
   references to the caged panther.

   The beginning and end state in FFA, on the other hand, are much different
   mentally.  Charlie returning to a state of retardation from brilliance
   is different from the shutting off of expression no deteriorated mental
   ability as in Awakenings.  The mental decline of Charlie, however, is
   no less horrible, and possibly even more.

        TIM
-- 
 Timothy M. Schreyer                         schrey@prc.unisys.com
 Center for Advanced Information Technology  (215) 648-2475 
 Paramax Systems Corporation                 FAX: (215) 648-2288
 PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Great SF Shorts
Reply-To: dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 03:57:22 GMT

In article <9207211604.AA02251@rutgers.edu>, D.GEISLER@ACAD.SUFFOLK.EDU writes:
|> I will be teaching a course in the Fall semester on science fiction,
|> and I would like some help in choosing good examples of short fiction
|> to have my students read.

   There is a handy collection of short stories put together by the SFWA
   (SF Writers of America).  I do not remember the title, but the SFWA
   should be a part of it.

   It contains about 20 stories (mostly pure sf) starting with H.G. Wells
   (_Country of the Blind_) and ending with the recent _Options_ (J. Varley)
   and _Bloodchild_ (O. Butler).  In between are many classics by authors
   like Bradbury, Zelazny, Delany, Blish, Clarke, etc.  Even stories that 
   I consider failed (like _Nightfall_ or _The Cold Equations_) provide an
   excellent subject for a debate on SF themes, techniques, and patterns.

   One advantage of the collection is that it provides a very balanced view
   of English language SF over the last 100 years.  Thus everyone will find
   something they like _and_ dislike, which should stimulate classroom 
   debate.
   
   A disadvantage are the afterwords, which are boring and obvious at best
   and an academic gibberish at worst.  But these are short and can be 
   ignored.

 - David


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: List of voters in ESF award so far
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:47:20 GMT

------- Spoiler of "A walk in the sun" --------------------------

(Mike Van Pelt) writes:
 
>My instant reaction to "A Walk in the Sun" was shock, horror, rage,
>and depression.  Dan'l and I started collaborating on a short story
>a couple of years ago, which had as one of its main gimmicks the
>protagonist's circumnaviation of the moon to keep his solar cells lit.
>(In our case, the protagonist was a robot.)  The Landis story has

  Seems your story might be more enjoyable, even more believable
then Landis's story.

>probably rendered our story unpublishable.  (If it wasn't already, of
>course :-) but in my very biased opinion it's better than a lot of
>the stuff that appears in major SF magazines.)

   Major disagreement here... I though the story was poorly written
(the sister stuff was so mechanical) *and* not believable.

>Other than that, I thought "A Walk.." was a great story, and the only
>*REAL* SF on the ballot.  My only quibble would be why a lunar mission
>not intending to land in a world in which there was no lunar presence
>would carry such a nifty suit.

  The whole story just seems a set-up so that Landis can use his cute
gimmick.

>My reaction to the whole list is a sad suspicion that SF is taking
>off in a direction that I have no interest in following.

  Ditto.  And that includes Landis's poor gimmick story.

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Good Book Covers(New US Pliocene Exile Cover)
Date: 25 Jul 1992 06:33:38 GMT
Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


	With respect to all the discussion on the accuracy of book
cover, I thought that the new covers to the Pliocene Exile were one of
the better example of painter reading the books prior to painting,
especially for the cover of Nonborn King and The Adversary.
 
-- 
[ Rodrick Su           ]-----------------------------------------------------] 
[----------------------[ A bomb lives only as it is falling.		     ] 
[ rod@cats.ucsc.edu    ]------------------------[ ``Use of Weapons''         ] 
[ rod@ucscb.ucsc.edu   ]------------------------[   Iain M. Banks            ]
From: dddawson@lpl.arizona.edu (Doug Dawson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:25:51 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

The classic definition of space opera that I always heard was that if
you can replace the handweapons with six-shooters, the spaceships with
horses, and the aliens with Indians and have something that makes sense
as a Western, you've got a space opera.

(It'd be a _little_ more complicated than that, but not necessarily that
much.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe))
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Books From Alien Perspective.
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA
Distribution: intergalactic
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:57:58 GMT

In <153bqdINN1v8@ensta.ensta.fr> corwin@ensta.ensta.fr (Gilles Gravier) writes:
>	There is a book by Alan Dean FOSTER that is called "Nor Cristal Tears".
>It is a story of a meeting between human race and alien race... The beginning of
>the book is truly fascinating, as it is narated from the aliens point of view.
>There are no humans at that time in the book... they crop up some time after, 
>and even after that, there always remains that feeling of reading a book meant
>for another species...

>	Anybody have comments on this?

Mainly one: I loved it!  Definitely one of the best of Foster's novels.
The book describes the first encounter of Men and Thranx, of later
Humanx Commonwealth fame.  Sincerely recommended.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: young@elec.uq.oz.au (Steven Young)
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:18:22 GMT

leue@crd.ge.com (Bill Leue) writes:
>>Yes, it was first published (in _Astounding_? One of those 60's mags,
>>anyway) as a novella. The novel came later.
>	I think it was actually published in Fantasy & Science Fiction,
>	if memory serves me right, not Astounding.

Correct.  In a mail reply from david potter that I got to the post,
he supplied the following information:
----- begin included file -----
  The original, short version (which won a 
  Hugo award for "Best Novelette") appeared in the April, 1959 issue
  of "FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION."
  The novel version, considered by most to have considerably less 
  impact, was an afterthought expansion, written primarily as an 
  accompaniment to the movie release, about ten years later.  (Cliff
  Robertson won an Academy Award for "Best Actor" for the movie.)

  The original short version can be found "THE HUGO WINNERS,"
  edited by Isaac Asimov, and in the ninth yearly volume of
  "THE BEST FROM FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION," edited by 
  Robert P. Mills.... Doubleday, 1960, and several paperback
  reprints.

=======================================================================
||  "C" gains much of its vaunted efficiency by employing a very     ||
||  powerful pre-processor, normally referred to as a "programmer."  ||
||  rem: "Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."       ||
=======================================================================
----- end included file -----

>-Bill Leue
>leue@crd.ge.com

Steven Young
--
Steven Young, (young@s2.elec.uq.oz.au) 
Dept of Electrical Engineering, University of Queensland. AUSTRALIA  4072.
Ph: 61+7 365 3564       FAX: 61+7 365 4999
All the electrons used in this message have been recycled.
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:10:06 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes:
>[cover errors]

Has anyone ever caught Michael Whelan in a cover error?  It seems like
he actually reads the book, as the covers are filled with details from
the books, but it can happen to anyone...
-- 
Faith is not reason's labor, but repose. -- Young
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Sharon McCrumb:  Zombies of the Gene Pool
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:53:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Thank goodness for libraries!  I'd hate to have actually spent money
for this book.  "Zombies of the Gene Pool" continues the fannish adventures
of Jay "Bimboes of the Death Sun" Omega, now at a reunion of once-young
science fiction authors -- some of whom have gone on to success and some
of whom have not.

There isn't much of a plot.  The story is mostly a vehicle for poking
fun at science fiction authors (none of whom bear any resemblance at all to
any actual authors, oh no!) and -- to a far lesser extent than last time --
science fiction fandom.

Once again there is a murder to solve.  It's different from the last one
in that the police would have solved this one quickly and routinely.  And
in that Omega's playing detective doesn't do *quite* as much harm this time.

Give this one a miss!

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
	--Internal documentation, programmer unknown
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written