From: markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re:Williams and the Romeros 
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:33:23 GMT


> Roger Adams writes:
> 
>>1As far as speed is concerned, Pepe and Angel Romero could blow away a warmed-up
>>Williams with cold hands in a snow storm :-). However, I agree that Williams 
>>is a master with incredible control, accuracy, facility, volume etc. and is 
>>truly a prince of the guitar (as Segovia once said).
> 
> Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. You think the Romeros can
> play faster than Williams? I find that astounding. Firstly anybody can play
> fast making lots of mistakes on the way. The whole point is that Williams can
> play at extraordinary speed and not make a single mistake whilst maintaining
> a crystal clear tone and consistent volume. 
>

Roger Adams replies:

>>>I am not taking anything away from Williams, I'm just saying (and others have
>>>agreed who have seen both Williams and at least one of the Romeros live as
>>>I have) that as far as scale speed is concerned, Romeros are much faster than
>>>Williams and I know that Pepe does not make technical errors, very clean with
>>>incredible control (memory lapses not withstanding). I do favor Williams
>>>in comparison (when considering all aspects of guitar playing and musicianship)
>>>but speed is speed, and the Romeros leave everyone else eating their dust :-).  
>>>Williams is still the standard in guitar technique overall.

I think this is getting a little silly. I have heard a lot of people play extremely fast, Williams, the Romeros, Eliot Fisk, Eduardo Fernandez and the Assad 
brothers to name a few. Let me illustrate what I mean by talking about 
Paganini's Caprice no. 24. The only guitarists I know who have recorded this
are Williams and Fisk. Fisk takes about 4 min 30 secs to get through it, 
and Williams close to 7. Of course Fisk doesn't play the repeats, which in
my view is musically totally wrong, but he does play it obscenely fast.
In fact he plays it too fast. Williams plays it extremely fast too.( which 
brings to mind a comment that Fisk once made that he is often occused of
playing too fast but nobody ever accuses Williams of this because when Williams
plays at breakneck speed he doesn't sound as fast as he is really playing. 
If you really want to know how fast people are playing, get your metronome 
out and check it against the recordings. You may be very surprised at the 
results). The problem with Fisk's playing is that at the speed he takes the
Caprice, many of the notes are not audible, this is particularly true in the
later variations. Williams actually plays the piece at close to the speed that
Fisk does, but you can hear every single note played. That is a crucial 
factor in the problem of speed. Could Williams play this piece faster than
Eliot Fisk? I have no idea. Fisk thinks he could, but he just doesn't.
The same is true with the Romeros. Can Williams play scale passages faster 
than the Romeros? I have no idea. You are simply assuming that because you
have heard the Romeros play certain passages faster than Williams that
Williams cannot play them at that speed. I think that is a very dangerous
assumption to make of a guitarist we both acknowledge sets the overall 
standard for technique. The reason that Williams, or any other musician 
with great technique, plays a given piece at a given speed, is because that
is how they think the piece should be played. You would agree that Music is
not a speed contest. So how do you know that Williams, or indeed lots of
other players -Mikulka is an obvious example, are not physically capable of
leaving the Romeros in their dust?  

> I have seen him many times and
> he does not make very many mistakes, (although I have heard him make a couple
> of errors in radio broadcasts). In fact the first time i saw him, he began 
> with a fantasia by Dowland, played the Bach Chaconne, Stemma by Dodgson and
> Sor's op9 plus a few others, and did not put a note out of place. He played
> the Chaconne extremely fast too. To me, playing with speed is all about
> playing in time, with precision and clarity. Elliot Fisk has said in an 
> interview I have, that in his view nobody has gone past Williams technique,
> including himself. 

>>>I agree if you are talking about overall technique but scale speed is a
>>>different story if you look at it alone. Sorry if I sounded irreverent to
>>>your idol. But I think your declaration that Williams was faster than any other
>>>guitarist needed qualification. Pepe and Angel do not loose notes or trip
>>>over themselves or create ugly sounds in their incredible speed; they are
>>>very clean and controlled at what they do and you have to see one of them
>>>live to become a believer.

Williams is not my idol. He is my favourite guitarist overall, but I listen 
more to the younger players who are exploring the avant-guarde repetoire.
Secondly, did I say that Williams is faster than any other Guitarist? I don't
believe so. Speed is not a major issue here, particularly if you
wisj to restrict to the narrow and somewhat misleading example of scales. 
I say misleading because as every player out there knows, there is a vast amount more to playing fast than simply executing scale passages. For example the right hand is the more important of the two, and there are many pieces that I play
which require fast right hand work. Look at the great flamenco players like
Paco Pena and Paco de Lucia, and how they use their right hands. Now that is
fast. The points I am making are that 1) there is much more to speed than 
scales, 2) a lot of people play fast but they do not play cleanly 3) the
speed at Williams or Mikulka or Barrueco or even Marcel Kayath play is
determined not so much by physical ability, but by musical considerations.
On these grounds I maintain that your claim that the Romeros can play faster
than anyone else, is at best unprovable.

Mark C.