HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:13 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp


cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes: (#)

## The Mustang is single action.  A museum piece.  Who wants to carry
## locked and cocked anymore?.

#Anyone who wants that first shot to hit the target, not an
#innocent bystander.

Yeah right. That is if that stuck out hammer doesn't snag in your
clothes.  Ever heard of safeties moving to the off position 
while the gun is being carried?.  You might end up nutless if you
carry one of those museum pieces day in and day out.  


#While I recognize the merits of the double action/single action
#design, and a DA/SA pistol is probably safer than a SA pistol,
#ESPECIALLY on a tiny gun, you need all the help you can get to
#make that first shot hit the target.

A good trigger action takes care of that.  DA only guns have proved 
you can shoot them as fast and accurately as you'll ever need.

#Also, I have found that I can cock the Mustang for the first
#shot nearly as fast taking the safety off.

Any effort to attain dexterity will give better results when applied
to the better design.  Not cocking a hammer is faster than cocking
a hammer fast.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III again
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:17 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <199211041808.AA07031@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#Some time ago, Christopher posted:
#
##From: CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Christopher L Frame)
##Subject: Re: Class III???
##...
##	To purchase a full auto weapon as a non-dealer you pay a $200 federal
##tax to the BATF and get a background check (pictures, prints, police, etc). 
##The tax is a one time tax for EACH full auto firearm you purchase.  ...
#
#My question is that can I pay the $200 federal tax to the BATF and 
#get a permit to convert my rifle into a full auto or select fire one?
#If not, are there any legal ways to do that? Thanks.
#

No.  

As of May 19, 1986 the BATF will no longer approve form 1 applications to
manufacture full auto firearms for civilian use.  The only legal way to
convert a semi auto rifle into full auto is to obtain and install a 
registered "auto sear", or (alternatively) registered full auto reciever.
Either of these parts require payment of the 4200 transfer tax, plus a
hefty "scarcity" payment to the current lucky owner.

#David
#-- 
# K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
# U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | KD6EYN, beer drinker, target shooter
# E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions.
From: KDAVIS@umiami.IR.Miami.EDU (Kevin Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:21:43 GMT

#From: magnum@cs.umd.edu
#Subject:LONG, rec.guns discussion
#Date: 13 Nov 92 01:04:48 GMT
#Message-ID:<62013@mimsy.umd.edu>

#
#
#			How am I doing?
#
                           **GREAT**

i really enjoy this list and appreciate the time you spend.
(your comments are just fine)

i've seen flame wars on other list's where the people called each
other out. that would'nt be good here since sam colt has us all equal :-)

and finally, ben's address starts with 'yenta', how befitting 8-))
AND
his bandwidth wasting signature says something about nobody
wanting his opinions --- how true

regards

Kevin Davis
u. miami
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A "must" for the reloading bench
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: btree.1992Nov9.162509.9223
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Nov5.184250.25800@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
[ inertia hammer discussion deleted ]
#I have one, and use it, but never with BP or with a dented primer.  We
#have burn cans at the range for rounds with dented primers (and
#dropped .22 rimfire).

This has reminded me of something that I've been meaning to ask -
how does one disassemble a damaged .22RF cartridge?  I have accumulated
a handful of these and I keep forgetting to take them to the range
so I would like to disassemble them, reclaim the bullet lead, burn
the powder, and fire the primers.  Thanks.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese 7.62 x39 Rounds
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:16:37 GMT


Russ Kepler writes:
#Pretty much the case.  I sectioned a few rounds that I had in the garage
#and found the following:
#
#source           case                     jacket    core
#unknown          br lacquer 71 over 88    copper    lead

Chinese production

#E. German        steel 04 over 65         steel     steel

Actually the case is grey lacquered steel


#colored.  So far as I know none of the currently imported ammo in
#7.62x39 is steel core ammo.  I wasn't aware that it was steel jacketed
#still...

The Chinese military ball (copper washed steel in 720 round cans) is
steel cored, as is the East German stuff being imported by Century.
Don't know about the Yugo military issue ball, and don't want to break
a box to find out :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: Panu.Kolju@lut.fi (Panu Kolju)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AK-47 Question
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:28 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:

In article <9210231626.AA07068@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#
#1) can an AK-47 shoot a bullet, any kind of bullet, through a "foot of steel"?
#
#The moderator pretty much answered this one - nope.
#
#Reminds me of the old '.357 Magnum/.44 Magnum/12ga. slug through the
#engine block' legend...

#I have a pet theory about that one- I suspect that it started out as
#the (true) statement that a high-powered round can penetrate a CINDER
#block, and that this got corrupted into CYLINDER block.  Just a guess.

#=====================================================================

Well, many years ago I had a change to see how this kind of bullet "block
buster" in .357 Mag behaved. We shot it to side of railroad "bar".
The bullet looked like this:
                            I
                           I I
                          I   I
                         I     I
                        I       I
                      I           I
                    I               I
                  I                   I
                  I                   I
                  I                   I
                  I                   I 
                  I                   I
                  _____________________

It seemed to be made of brass (hope the word is right for that yellow metal).
Well, anyhow, it didn't go through the bar but made a "track" or small "pit"
to the side where the bullet hit the bar. The other side wasn't straigt after 
that eather. 
Well, sort of picture tells it all:

                      I    I
                      I    I
                      I    I
                     <    <
                    <    I
                     <    <
                      I    I
                      I    I = the bar


The bullet was designed to go through engine block according to the co-worker 
who had it. I think the block must be made of aluminium if so...Nice test 
anyhow. Shooting distance was about 2 meters. I wonder how steel bullet would
have behaved...




 

-- 
****************Adress: Sampolantie 2 C 16           Phone: 90-256 862(Tuusula)
* Panu Kolju   *======= 04310 Tuusula FINLAND. or:   ======  or:
* kolju@lut.fi *        Punkkerikatu 1 B 5                  953-20191(Lappeen-
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:23 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1992Nov10.062351.13270@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# I wish they made another version of the Ladysmith.  (This may sound
# silly:) the gun design seems ok, but I think I would like it more if
# it didn't have that name etched on the side.  My girlfriend laughs
# when I tell her things like that.  %^)

Well, the good news is that they made a version - the 3913N - that was the
same frame as the LadySmith 3913, but it doesn't have the LadySmith name.
The bad news is that according to a report I read a while back, when S&W
cut back on the number of guns they make, they cut out both the 3913N and
the LadySmith semi-auto.

# I have, however, had experience with several S&W autos that stunk wrt 
# trigger quality.

One thing you might want to try is the S&W DAO guns.  The one I've got has
the best double-action pull on a semi-auto I've ever encountered.  (Of course,
it was special-ordered from the factory, so it may have been slicked up a
little, but it is a sweet trigger!)

Stan
----


-- 
 Serendipity is looking in a haystack for a needle
 and discovering the farmer's daughter.                    -- Julias H. Comroe 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Young                                     {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: amnon%milo.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Amnon Silverstein)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LASERs
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:08:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

I've noticed all the laser posts and I happen to work in a lab that uses lasers
and we have lots of catalogs around. I looked for the biggest, meanest laser
mail order can buy for some real life laser specs:

Melles Griot RF-Excited CO2 laser

240 W output

220 VAC @ 40 Amp input

154 lbs in weight + 79 lbs power supply

Powerful enough to cut a pc board at around 2" per sec and one is shown cutting
thin sheet metal but most applications seem to be cutting various plastics.
A bargan at only: $56,500.00!

Let me know if you assemble a cool laser pistol! I saw a nice Yamaha gas 
generator that could power the thing. The rig would weigh about 300 lbs,
cost $57K and be as powerful as a .22! Awesome.
-Amnon
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock (& lock)
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:08:54 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <MeyJZeG00iUyQ2bQcx@andrew.cmu.edu> se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:
#
#That being said, I've heard contradictory opinions reagarding the
#"safety" on the Glock (model 17,19 etc).

 The Glock safety system is intended to make the gun drop-safe. It does
that admirably. Some people worry about the case of menacing a bad guy
with a gun, and then having it go off accidentally (big lawsuit!). The
idea is that this can happen with an SA because the trigger pull is light
enough for it to go off from unconscious grip tightening under stress.

 IMHO this kind of accident is very rare for a civilian, and besides it
can only happen with poor training. If you do need to menace someone, be
sure to do it with your finger outside the trigger guard, or inside the
guard but all the way forward. This costs you almost very little in
shooting reaction time.

 Policemen, who do sometimes need to hold guns on people, will often have
the "New York Trigger" modification in their Glocks. This is a replacement
spring that increases the trigger pull to 8-10 lbs (low end of DA revolver
range) or even to 12-14 lbs. The theory is that more cops may die in
gunfights, but fewer bad guys will sue the police force. To a police
administrator, the trade-off looks good. For a civilian the tradeoff looks
bad, IMHO. The reduced hit probability under stress will decrease your
chance of winning a gun fight. The possibility of accidentally shooting a
bad guy is of lesser concern, and besides it can be dealt with in training.

#
#Also, regarding Glock quality.

 IMHO the Glock will last forever if you take good care of it (keep it
clean, don't drop it). Austrian Army acceptance tests included function
firing with NATO 9mm (9mm +P+ to us wimpy Americans). Some Glocks lasted
over 100,000 rounds.

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						standard disclaimers apply
From: U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Selling Home-loaded Ammo?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:16:37 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

What about worring about law suits, if the purchaser has a problem?
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: distance a .22 lr travels
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:48:39 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <BxB8BM.3F5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs125c51@dcl-nxt31.cso.uiuc.edu (cs125 student) writes:
}I'm fairly new to shooting .22's, and I have a question about how far they  
}really travel. I use CCI mini-mags, hv, and do all of my shooting in the  
}country, although there are some houses about a mile or mile and a half in one  
}direction, a direction I need to shoot in. Now, (that's my Ross Perot  
}imitation), on the box it says, "Dangerous to 1 1/2 miles", and I believe that.  
}I'm not totally stupid. 
}
}My question: Is that at a shooting angle of 45 degrees? Most of my shooting  
}will be at angles of about 30 degrees and lower. Now how far will the bullet  
}travel? After traveling a mile, will the terminal velocity really be enough to  
}do some damage to a body, both head and non-head areas?

My understanding is those maximum range figures assume ~30 degrees
elevation.  45 degrees gives less distance.

}Can I simply use 1.5 miles as maximum distance traveled at 45 degrees and use  
}trig to figure out the rest? How much different is std velocity?

If they say it's dangerous at 1.5 miles I'd make damn sure there wasn't
anything I didn't want to shoot less than 2 miles down range, or a good
backstop in view, regardless of angles.  Remember, we're discussing life
and death here.  This is no place for fudging around with numbers.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Steyr GB
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:01:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: chpc.1992Nov6.173514.9220
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9211061307.AA09178@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

#Anyway, there was also a Steyr GB clone out there called the L.E.S.
#Rogak.  I believe it was made in Chicago or thereabouts.  Depending

Rogak guns were made in Morton Grove, IL and are so marked.
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trajectory question
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:10 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <9211042257.AA22000@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
->
->---
->replying to an article by John Bercovitz  (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
->
-> >...there really aren't any forces to create a torque on the gun while
-> >the bullet is still in the bore.  (After the bullet leaves, the slide
-> >slams into the frame and _really_ torques the gun upward.)
->
->Sure there are.  The slide is not moving freely while the bullet is
->in the barrel.  It had better not be moving much at all.  Also, if
->the muzzle jump were only due to the motion of the slide, then revolvers
->wouldn't have any.  Now I don't own one (yet), but I'm pretty sure
->they do.

Partly right.  There is the friction between the bullet and the rifling,
this is obviously going to cause a torqueing force in two directions -
one backwards, and one as a twisting motion to one side.

However, the slide does move while the bullet is in the barrel of most
semi-autos.  The slide and the barrel are locked together for a fraction
of an inch (well under 1/2 inch), and then after the bullet has left the
barrel (determined by timing, no sensor or anything obviously), the slide
unlocks from the barrel and begins the ejection process.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Pistol Grip On A Shotgun ( was: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns? )
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:48:49 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation


In article <1992Nov10.221857.12746@news.eng.convex.com>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
|> In article <199211090404.AA28009@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
|> 
|> #(1) Is pistol grip a good idea on a shotgun?
|> 
|> I hate 'em. I think the only way to fire a shotgun (except at extreme close
|> range) is the way God intended--from the shoulder. Contrary to Hollywood
|> legend, a shotgun has to be aimed, and the only way to do that is with the
|> stock against your shoulder. Also, the recoil of a 12 gauge is more
|> difficult to control when firing from the hip--I find rapid fire _much_
|> more manageable when the gun is shoulder-fired. And if I _must_ fire from
|> the hip, I find it helpful to tuck the stock under my elbow, and press it
|> against my body--this helps steady my aim for followup shots. Obviously,
|> you can't do that with a pistol grip.

I find rapid fire far easier when shooting from the hip (pistol grip or full
stock).  The problem I found with a pistol grip was that most of the recoil
was absorbed in my right wrist.  A couple of 3" magnum shells & my wrist was
sore for a week :-(  I've since put the full stock back on (I've been
using it for clay pigeon shooting).
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> #(3) I understand it has a 3" chamber. Can it accept reliably smaller
|> #    size loads, such as 2 3/4" shells?
|> 
|> It should chamber any shell 3" or shorter. Whether it will function
|> reliably with them is another matter. I don't know.
It should shoot 2 3/4" shells reliably.  I have had no reliability problems
with 2 3/4" shells (including reloads) in my Winchester 1300 Defender which
has a 3" chamber.

|> 
|> -- 
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|>              |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
|> Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla        |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:35 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

Larry.Huttunen@EBay.Sun.COM (Larry Huttunen) writes:

#I think your moderation of rec.guns is just fine.
#Keep on doing what you're doing.  If there's a vote,
#I choose:
##>> XX remain as is. <<<

	Ditto from me as well.  I've had articles returned for political
comments, and I used up all sorts of bandwidth in the Great Armor-Piercing
Arrow debate, and I don't see how it could have been handled more fairly.

	In addition, I *like* the moderators comments sparingly interjected.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: ericj@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Rifle recommendations for DCM Matches?
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington SOB, Seattle

I plan on buying a rifle for use in  DCM/Highpower matches. 
I want an accurate, cheap rifle that meets the rules for service rifle.
I'm pretty much torn between an Enfield #4, and a 96 Swedish Mauser.
Both are cheap and said to be very accurate. I have both the Enfield and
Mauser reprints from the NRA, and both these rifles look like they'll 
meet my needs. I don't like the open sights on the mauser. Can I put
on an aftermarket peep sight and still be legal for DCM matches?

Any comments by owners of either of these would be greatly appreciated. 
Also, please let me know ASAP as a show is coming this sunday...

[MODERATOR:  Check the fine print to see whether the base rifle
would be legal at all for DCM competition, let alone one with the
peep.   I suspect not, though you could certainly shoot it as a
match rifle in NRA highpower competition.]
From: scylax!root@uunet.UU.NET (Operator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:33 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp

The Mustang is single action.  A museum piece.  Who wants to carry
locked and cocked anymore?.   I have a SIG P230.  which is as acurate
as a small auto can be.  It is a little larger than the Walther PPK, but
I like it because it has never jammed on me after thousands of rounds
and you can feel the quality.  AMT can get close to that either.
From: douglas@netcom.com (Douglas Mason)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Anti-terrorist rifle...?
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov13.041025.5904
Organization: Approach Software Corp.  Redwood City, CA  94063

I was at a gun show a few weeks back and saw a couple guns that were at a
table.

One was a HK-91 with about all of the 'mods you could do to it short of a 
PSG-1 kit.  Without optics it was like $2500.

The other one was more interesting -- it was a .308 caliber gun in one of
those bullpup-looking stocks, made out of some type of polymer looking
plastic.  While at first it just looked like one of those cheap Ruger
conversion bodies, I looked again and it actually looked like some type of
business-only gun. 

While I was there another guy asked about it and they guy said that it was
a .308 caliber anti-terrorist gun.  With the pretty hot optics that were
mounted on it the price was like $3500 or something like that.  They guy
was talking about how the SWAT teams and the like that use it prefer the
.308 over the .223 for longer distance sniper use due to it's ability to
not fly all over the place after striking a target and it's better ability
to fly straight with windage. (??)

Anyone have any idea what the hell kind of gun this could have been?  I
saw another one sitting in a case that looked about as radical with the 
somewhat square body except the body seemed to be made of a wood rather than
a polymer and the price was (with optics) $5500.  Ouch!

Any ideas?  Both times they were referred to as "Anti-terrorist guns", which
may mean nothing.


-Doug

-- 
Douglas Mason                                    douglas@netcom.COM
Network administration / software development    douglas@netcom.UUCP
Approach Software Corporation                    +1 415.306.7889
From: erikb@puccini.crl.umn.edu (Erik Biever)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Winchester Model 100 jamming problem
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:27:04 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

My three brothers have Winchester Model 100 autoloading rifles in .308, with 
which they have all had occasional jamming problems.  The action seems to 
have trouble getting the spent case out of the way.  They are shooting 
factory-loaded ammo, mostly Remington 180 grain loads.  One of them has 
found that his rifle works OK with Federal ammo, but not with Remington.  
The actions are being kept very clean, so I don't think that is the problem.
Any ideas?

Erik Biever
erikb@puccini.crl.umn.edu