HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Payloads
Date: 20 Jan 93 16:35:28 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan18.193953.22527@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> tes@motif.uucp (Thomas E. Smith) writes:
>
>The actual question posted to this topic was: Does anyone know what type of
>payloads are being put in rockets these days. I was just curious because I'd
>like to start getting hi-tech with model rockets.

As previous posters (including myself) have answered: Check out Section 4
of the FAQ. It was specifically designed, just for you :-)


- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
=============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Shred Avoidance
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:03:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan27.233519.19356@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

> I don't know anything about Urinsco motors. Nobody seems to know who
> "Gumby" is - apparently the motors are pretty good.

The Gumby is simply Frank Kosdon's "Firestarter" clone.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Question about electronic ejection control
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993  16:20 edt
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: robin.hosp.med.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <1993Jan22.172703.15050@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> "buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)" says:
> I would like to build an electronic ejection control system into my next
> rocket.  I want the ability to set varying ejection delays based on
> different motors and vehicle weights.
> 
> I've seen mention of and advertisements for electronic timers that may be used
> to control custom ejection delays.  I understand that these are hooked to 
> a capacitor or battery as a source of power for an electric match or 
> flashbulb.   What gets fuzzy after that is exactly what is used to provide
> the ejection change itself.  Do you use black powder in some type of container,
> which you ignite via the pulse from the capacitor/timer?
 
Well you can use anything you want that provides a way of seperating the 
airframe and expelling the parachute.
> 
> I'm interested in construction details, parts requirments, sources for the 
> black powder, alternatives to explosive ejection systems (if any), etc.
> 
> Have there been any construction articles in _Tripolitan/HPM_ or _AmSpam_?
> 
 
There was mention of a system in a _Tripolitan/HPM_ article about the 
Michigan Team 1 'M Project'.
 
> Are there commercial products available?
 
Bobby's Rockets sells electrically ignited ejection charges.  They are just 
black powder with an ignitor, but come pre-packeaged and are available in 
different sizes of black powder charge.
 
I've never used this type of a system, but I have seen a couple of rockets 
that worked successfully using what you are describing.  The most impressive 
was a dual K550 powered rocket flown at Danville and Three Oaks.  They used 
the ejection charges of the two K-s (one set for apogee, the other a second 
longer) to seperate the airframe.  Small (24-36") drogue chutes were pulled 
out as the airframe seperated - their function was to simple align the 
airframe parts so they were oriented to minimize stress when the main chutes
deployed.  The main chutes (two in the bottom, one in the top) were packed 
into mortor (sp) tubes and were ejected using Robby's Rockets timers and 
ejection charges.  These timers were started by roller switches that tripped 
at seperation.  They were set to fire 6-7 seconds after seperation.  The 
launch I saw had one of the charges fail due to a weak battery (however the 
rocket landed undamaged on the remaining chute).  Talking to Bob Robertson 
(Robby's Rockets) after the flight, he mentioned that you need a fresh 9 
volt battery to reliably fire the ejection charge.
 
> 
> Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
>
 
That's not much but I hope it gets you started.
 
- Roger
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: maine@altair.dfrf.nasa.gov (Richard Maine)
Subject: Re: Tracking
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:54:12 GMT

On Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:16:03 GMT, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) said:

bill> soc1070 writes:
bill> : 
bill> : As for decent rates, I think a basic problem would be that two
bill> : different rockets, each exactly the same weight and with the 
bill> : same size 'chutes, would fall at different rates, because the one
bill> : with the larger exposed area (i.e. fins, tube, etc) would be carried
bill> : further down wind.

bill> This is a little misleading. They will both fall at the same rate.
bill> They will not fall at the same descent angle - the one with the greater
bill> lateral area of resistance will drift further.

That's still misleading.  I've seen several people in the past make
the same mistake.  Presumably none of them are pilots (which I am) nor
parachutists (which I'm not, but I presume they must have the right
intuition even more strongly).  The lateral area has essentially
nothing to do with either descent rate or descent angle.  Anything
falling on a non-gliding parachute will move laterally with "exactly"
(to as close as matters, excepting mainly transient gusts) the
wind velocity, making lateral area irrelevant.

The pilot in me notes that flight dynamics are always relative to the
wind, not the ground.  This is *VERY* apparent in light aircraft;
if you have a pilot friend that doesn't appreciate this, I'd advise you
not to go flying with him/her.  The misunderstanding is a common cause
of stall/spin accidents.

I'd estimate that it probably takes on the order of one second after
chute opening to reach the steady state condition.  That one second
or so is the only time that there is significant lateral velocity
relative to the wind.

--
--
Richard Maine
maine@altair.dfrf.nasa.gov
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Trouble at Aerotech
Date: 20 Jan 93 16:44:23 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Distribution: na
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan17.180920@primerd.Prime.COM> j.cook@primerd.prime.com (C. James Cook) writes:
>
>For those of you that previously contacted Bob via CompuServe, note that his
>account and his computer went away with his job.

Is anyone taking over his account, or did they just close it down?

- Jack


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||  "I'm sorry they're flying so low and jamming your radar, Dimitri, but  ||
||    they're trained to do that. It's called, you know, initiative"       ||
=============================================================================
From: mark@netcom.com (Mark Jeghers)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Wanted: good launch site in South San Jose area!
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:16:09 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

The title says it all.  The high school on Santa Teresa is the largest field
I've found so far, and it is just large enough, in my humble opinion, for
a B engine -- launching a C or D would almost certainly lose the rocket 
somewhere beyond the fields area.

Where can I find a bigger, better field?

Mark Jeghers
UNIX/X/Motif Contractor
408-281-4823 [voicemail]
From: det@sw.stratus.com (David Toland)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Tracking
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:34:24 GMT
Reply-To: somebody@somehost.edu
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: phlan.sw.stratus.com

In article <19930126100940.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>, Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (Roger Wilfong) writes:
> Kind of shoots hole in the 'X-form' parachutes don't drift as far a regular 
> parachutes theory.  Doesn't it?

The assumption I don't exactly swallow is that a parachute will have a
zero horizontal airspeed.  This is not necessarily true, and could depend
on the parachute geometry.  If the parachute deforms in such a way as to
maintain a particular airspeed, then you can have a ground speed that differs
from the wind velocity.  Parachute oscillation and other factors can also
delay reaching a steady state.

Of course, a parachute design that tends to damp oscillation quickly can
sometimes permit a higher vertical velocity without damage to the model,
so you can have less drift by reducing the time in the air.  Just don't
use it for parachute duration events.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions are MINE MINE MINE, and not necessarily anyone else's.
det@phlan.sw.stratus.com   |  "Laddie, you'll be needin' something to wash
                           |  that doon with."
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: Tracking
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:11:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.163448.20293@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, tes@motif.uucp (Thomas E. Smith) writes...

>The question is, is there some type of smoke or colored chalk dust you can
>use to make the rocket more visible as it comes down? If so what type of 
>mechanism (commercial or home-made) do you use to steadily release the smoke or
>chalk? And what other methods could be used? This is the main issue keeping me
>from tackling high-power rocketry where I plan on breaking 3200 ft.
> 
>BTW, does anyone know the decent rate of a 1lb rocket with an 18" chute? I
>guessed that it took about 90 seconds for the rocket to land with the chute.
>With about a 25 mph wind that puts the rocket at (25mph * (90s/(3600 sec/hr)))
>..625 mi from where I launched it. So that was where I concentrated the search.
> 
>Thanks in advance for any help :)
> 
> Tom E. Smith

Alot of people use carpenters chalk or powdered tempra paint (I like
tempra better, the colors are cooler :) ), but usually only to get
a reference at ejection. I don't know if anyone's ever devised a 'spill'
method, to release it over time.

I imagine it could be done something like this:
Take a tube maller than the main body of the rocket and fill it with
chalk/tempra. Constrict it somehow on the gravity down end an cap it. 
Have the ejection charge rigged to release the cap, and then the chalk
flows out like sand from an hourglass. The downside is that you'd
probably have to dump A LOT of chalk to track it this way. A smoke
capsule would probably work better and weigh less.

As for decent rates, I think a basic problem would be that two
different rockets, each exactly the same weight and with the 
same size 'chutes, would fall at different rates, because the one
with the larger exposed area (i.e. fins, tube, etc) would be carried
further down wind. A one pound rocket and a one pound sphere with 
identical chutes will not likely fall in the same place, so its
difficult to say. In your case, what you computed was the *closest*
possible distance.

------
Tim Harincar				A skunk is better company than
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			someone who prides themselves on
 					being frank. -Lazerus Long
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Powr Pad
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993  08:07 edt
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: robin.hosp.med.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <24JAN199323180495@vill.edu> "161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK)" says:
> In my ever vigilant (sp?) attempt at getting my old Powr Pad in prime
> condition, I'm still looking for two other pieces:
> 
> Still in pursuit of the infamous angled blast deflector that it used to
> come with (Quest used the same deflector in it's first year of operation, so
> if anyone has an old angled Quest deflector they're willing to part with,
> lemme know.)
> 
 
I can't remember if anyone suggested this, but try Acme Rockets in Phoenix.  
I think I saw an angled blast deflector in their catalog.  Another place 
is Commonwealth Displays in Allen Park, Michigan.  They have vintage Estes 
and Centuri kits and parts from time to time.
 
> I also need the lauch key, the big momma made of red plastic that showed the
> rocket launching on it.  If anyone has one, lemme know...
> 
 
Ditto.
From: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: HPR Launches
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:29:44 GMT
Reply-To: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: Organization, City, State, etc.


 Having just gotten the latest issue of High Power Rocketry
and The Tripoli Report and having been a member for Tripoli
for a year and a half now, I note a particular deficiency with
Tripoli pubs or maybe its just Tripoli itself.
Where are the high power rockets meets?
The only ones listed explicitly in the Report are a Danville
notice , a Kloudbusters notice and LDRS XII.
At least my NAR membership gives me a magazine that list
launches scheduled, or at least it used to.
Now I know that many high power launches are almost 
'spur of the moment', around Texas there have been launches
in Dallas and San Antonio for which I got almost last second
notice.
Now I don't mind that, but sure wish somebody would plan ahead.
It sure would be nice if there was a fixed set of regional meets
that could be publicized in HPR. 
In fact it seems like almost all meet reports in HPR are after
the fact. Looks as if someone doesn't buy an ad in HPR you would
never know. Be nice if they had a column devoted to upcoming launches.
I think their publishing schedule is often enough. (In fact I wouldn't
get mad if I missed one by several weeks but by months and years! well
alas!)
Yeah, yeah I know its a bunch of wild and crazy guys ( quite their charm
really!) but a few spots of organization on launches would be nice.
.................................
One last thing, was disappointed the Jan-Feb issue of HPR did not list
the tracking results from LDRS 11 (just for selfish reasons my part.)
............................
Al Jackson (TRA 1625)
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 22 Jan 1993 00:07:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <19930121073404.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>, Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong) writes:

> > Most people would not be interested in the threshhold firing levels,
>  
> I disagree.  If you are thinking of designing your own 'flash bulb safe' 
> controller, this information is critical.  I have never seen these values 
> authoratively documented.  'Flash bulb safe' is always assumed to be just 
> 'a few milliamps'.

Buy a copy of NFPA 1126, Use of Pyrotechnics Before a Proximate Audience.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Igniters
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:20:57 GMT

In article <19930122095227.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong) writes:

>> Does dipping an ignitor in plastic 
>> and firing it under water determine how well it can ignite a rocket motor?

>Don't you dip your rockets in plastic and launch them from under water?  
>You're missing out on valuable mission point on that scale Trident.  :-)

They don't do this with the real Tridents - what you really want to do 
is make a scale submarine to go with it! 9-)



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: barrett@add.itg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: RE: Estes Bandit
Date: 28 Jan 1993 22:33:35 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: powder.add.itg.ti.com

pfeiffer@nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer) Writes:

>>This will be of most interest to newcomers and parents:
>>
>>Well, my 5 year old daughter has gotten big enough for her first
>>rocket...  we went out and rats!  Couldn't find a Gnome!  So, we
>>decided to try one of Estes' new E2X rockets -- claimed to be easy to
>>build, almost ready-to-fly.
>>
>>My reaction is that Estes has forgotten what is involved in an easy to
>>build rocket.  In this case, the motor mount is placed in a cage of
>>three pieces of plastic, and the whole assembly is inserted into the
>>body tube.  It must be correctly aligned, so that the launch lugs and
>>the fins can properly be inserted into slots in the body tube and
>>glued in place.  No problem at all for an adult, but the Athena/America
>>or Gnome/Leprechaun is a much better starting point for a little one.
>>I've also got a suspicion that the motor mount and fins are going to
>>melt in a very small number of flights (this is why my son's
>>Leprechaun had to be retired after a half dozen flights).

  I agree, I bought 6 of these for my Cub Scout den.  It was a disaster!
Not one kid was able to build it.  The motor mount was the main problem,
but the shock cord attachment mechanism was a problem too.  As you
predict the fins will come off!  I suggest that you try the Quest kits.
Their Falcon is a good kit and easy to build.  I understand that Chuck
"The Master" Mund stuffed a G125 in one and launched it at LDRS.  No
information on whether it survived ;-)

>>Weather permitting, we fly Saturday!

Good Luck,

Stu Barrett  barrett@add.itg.ti.com
TRA#1277  NAR#4341
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Education Problem [was: MRTI (tm)]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993  08:04 edt
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: robin.hosp.med.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <635@rml.UUCP> "jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)" says:
> 
> BTW, maybe I should give High Schoolers more credit. At this morning's launch 
> of the as-yet-unnamed Livermore Rocket Club, the subject of ignitors came 
> up in conversation. I heard several high school age members comment "Did you 
> see the article in AmSpam? Boy, was that dumb!"
> 
 
That is encouraging.  A year ago, my church held a "road rally" (read parlor 
game on wheels) for the senior high group.  Parents drove to keep the kids 
from turning it into a 'real' road rally.  The group of 5 juniors and seniors
that I drove had real problems with the math problem.  The converstation 
went something like this. 
 
Kid 1:  "'Multiply the number of states in the union by a dozen.'  Okay, 
  that's 51 times 12."
 
Me:  "Excuse me, what was that?"
 
Kid 2: "51 states times 12."
 
Me:  "How many states in the union?"
 
Kids:  "We said 51!"
 
Me:  "Name them."
 
Kids:  "We we can't name all of them.  Why, aren't there 51?"
 
Me:  "Not unless Pueto Rico or the upper peninsula have been admitted since 
  this morning."
 
Kids:  "Okay, so there's only 50." 
 
...
[lot's of bad arithmetic - deleted]
...
 
Kids:  "Okay, we got the address but it says 'on (square root of 10) squared 
  Mile Road.'  What's the square root of 10?"
 
- At this point, I was determined to not tell them the answer.  But make them 
figure it out.
 
Me:  "It doesn't matter.  If you square the square root of any number, what 
  do you get?"
 
Kids:  "We don't know."
 
Kid 1:  "Oh, I know! ONE!"
 
Me:  "Does that make sense in relation to the problem?"
 
Kids:  "What?"
 
Me:  "Where's 'One Mile Road'?"  (You need to understand that this entire 
  exercise is taking place on the corner of Ten Mile and Meadowbrook.)
 
Kids:  "We don't know.  There aren't any below 7 mile."  (Actually in our 
  part of the western Detroit suburbs, the mile roads start numbering at 
  Five Mile.)  
  "Come on.  Just tell us what the square root of 10 is.  We'll figure it 
  out from there."
 
Me:  "I don't know what it is exactly,  It's 3 point something, but that's 
  not ..."
 
Kids:  "OKAY, it's three!  Three squared is nine!  (at least they knew 
  how to square a number).  Okay.  It's Nine Mile - let's go!"
 
Me:  "Wait.  Wait.  I think you better work this out again."
 
-----
 
Gave me a whole new insite into the local education system.  My only 
consolation was that my freshman son was in another car and had no problem 
solving the clue.
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: JULBPP.ZIP still bad on archive site
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:31:00 GMT

In article <24JAN199312523819@vill.edu>, 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK) writes...
>In article <1993Jan21.172905.6280@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes...
>>Some months back, I had posted that the file julbpp.zip on the r.m.r
>>archive site (sunsite.unc.edu) appeared to be bad (it won't
>>unzip).  Someone, I don't remember who, was going to upload a
>>good version.  I looked today and it seems that the old file is still
>>there.  Does anyone know where, or if, a good copy is available?
>>Thanks.
>> 
>>--
>>Greg Elder                                        elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
>>Department of Computer Science            or      elder@seine.eas.asu.edu
>>Arizona State University
>> 
> 
> 
>I noticed the same thing.  I also noticed that the FAQs don't find their way
>to the FTP archive anymore.  Any objections to me uploading the newest one
>there?
> 
>What's in this JULBPP.ZIP file anyway?

The JULBPP.zip and JULYBPP.sit were PC and mac versions of the july
issue of the Black Powder Picayune, Central MN Assoc Rocketry's 
newsletter. Basically just the text of all the stories. 

Unfortunatly, I no longer have the files in text format. I hadn't 
heard anything in a long time and figured I could get rid of them
off my drive. I could strip the text out of the layouts, but thats
a bit of work. Maybe I'll just wait until I do the next issue and
start posting again with that one.

------
Tim Harincar				A skunk is better company than
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			someone who prides themselves on
 					being frank. -Lazerus Long	
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets