HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:50:07 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa


You've got the general idea of how such a scheme would work; a
difference is the fact that it wouldn't "just" require there to be "a
few programmers."

If the system were operated through the Income Tax system, it would
probably mean that the importance (and correspondingly the size) of
Revenue Canada would in fact GROW.

The point of the exercise is to make the system of social programming
more consistent by passing it all at some point through a single
evaluator, specifically income tax regulations.

It would mean that the various social programs that require "means
tests," such as welfare, wouldn't need a separate evaluation.  It DOES
make Revenue Canada somewhat more important; it means that they'll
need MORE auditors to detect/ward off fraud.

It would be particularly advantageous to those that are in the group
currently known as the "working poor."  These are the people that make
just enough from their jobs to keep them off the welfare rolls.

Currently, being on welfare provides benefits in addition to the
obvious monthly cheque.  Welfare recipients get various forms of
legal/medical/... assistance that are not available to those "working
poor" that may have income only very slightly higher than the welfare
recipient.

In effect, this means that it is financially advantageous to go on
welfare rather than to stay in the "low-end" job.  This sort of
inequity would be the sort of thing that would get considered by a
more "integrated" income tax system.

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca           |===================================
University of Ottawa              |  The Personal Computer:  Colt 45
Master of System Science Program  |  of the Information Frontier
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,talk.abortion,talk.politics.animals
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:18:25 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <92350.174611SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
>Then we have escalating taxes, in which the more you make, the greater
>proportion of it you pay. A negative income tax would have to use a
>similar model to this, because the rate have to go from positive to
>negative at some point. (Replacing the basic personal exemption with
>a refundable tax credit would only partly hide the process).
>

No...you can have a negative income tax and a flat tax...you just
assign a sufficient personal exemption (and basic exemptions for
dependents).  Say, for an individual, the first $15,000 is tax-free
and then the flat tax is 25% of every dollar after than...if you
earn less than $15000 or X dollars, the government pays you the
difference...           

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:38:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.213152.1170@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.001825.29404@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In article <92350.174611SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>>
>>>Then we have escalating taxes, in which the more you make, the greater
>>>proportion of it you pay. A negative income tax would have to use a
>>>similar model to this, because the rate have to go from positive to
>>>negative at some point. (Replacing the basic personal exemption with
>>>a refundable tax credit would only partly hide the process).
>>>
>>
>>No...you can have a negative income tax and a flat tax...you just
>>assign a sufficient personal exemption (and basic exemptions for
>>dependents).  Say, for an individual, the first $15,000 is tax-free
>>and then the flat tax is 25% of every dollar after than...if you
>>earn less than $15000 or X dollars, the government pays you the
>>difference...           
>
>do you mean by this that the government would pay dollar-for-dollar
>every dollar under $15,000? so that if i earned $9,000, the government
>would pay me $6,000?
>
>is that the concept behind a "negative income tax" system?
>

Basically, yes, and it would be a lot more efficient than hiring the
thousands upon thousands of bureaucrats to deliver the complicated
set of social programs which essentially do the same thing now.

If we are going to have a social safety net...it might as well be
the most efficient one possible, and the negative income tax is
that.

The same goes for the flat tax...it reduces the need for bureaucrats
in tax department, and reduces the need for wasting valuable human
resources in the fields of tax law and accounting. 

Gerald

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and abortion (was Re: Speciesism)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:26:58 GMT

In article <viking.724414940@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp (Todd Law) writes:
>
>g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>
>>>2.  There is more involved in the abortion question than right to life, there
>>>	is also the question of the rights of the pregnant woman.
>>                                    ~~~~~~
>>"rights" should read "convenience".
>
>	Bullshit.  Read your United States Constitution, and pay
>special attention to the 9th, 10th,  and 14th amendments.  Unless
>specifically stated as a concern of the Federal government, all
>other rights exist to the states or to the people.  The trouble
>is that you need to get the Supreme Court to agree that a right
>to abort actually exists.  I suggest the Right to Life covers this,
>but we may not like the interpretation by the Court.
>


This may be a case of problematic cross-posting,since this was sent to
talk.politics.animal and talk.abortion as well as  soc.culture.canada
and can.politics, BUT

AS OF THE DATE OF WRITING, THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION DOES NOT
HAVE ANY FORCE OR EFFECT OR BEARING ON EVENTS IN CANADA, thank you
very much.

Chris

 

-- 
Chris Ambidge / ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu / ambidge@ecf.utoronto.ca  
   chemical engineering / university of toronto
   200 college st / toronto ON / M5S 1A4 // 416 978 3106
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: todd@athena.elcom.nitech.ac.jp (Todd Law)
Subject: Re: Speciesism was Re: Reform party platform (a sampling of)
Reply-To: todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp
Organization: Nagoya Institute of Technology, Nagoya ,Japan.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:40:04 GMT


In article <18250@mindlink.bc.ca> Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton) writes:

>What evidence do you have that shrimp feel pain?

In Japan, there is a trend toward eating food that is really fresh,
and I mean REALLY FRESH.  Often, the animal is killed seconds before
it is cooked, and sometimes it is thrown on to the skillet alive.

About six months ago, I was invited to a dinner where shrimp were
cooked in this way.  They even made a small screaming noise for the
first few seconds.   Then later on, (when they were probably dead)
the heat made the muscles contract and expand so that one moved 
about an inch every three seconds (big shrimp).  I had to move to 
avoid it landing on my lap.  It's the only time I've felt nauseous 
while eating in Asia, so far (but I haven't been to China yet...).


Todd Law
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nagoya Institute of Technology,
Itoh Laboratory,			"Be excellent to each other."
todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com (Village Idiot)
Subject: are gay marriages legal in Canada?
Keywords: gay marriages, legal
Reply-To: dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville Al.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:14:41 GMT

Hi All,

The subject says it all.  Just curious!
-- 
*******************************************************************************

Doug Roberts                             E-mail: dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com
Senior System Engineer
Federal Systems Division                 Phone: 205-730-1760
Intergraph Corporation
Mail Stop IW1510                         FAX: 205-730-6956
Huntsville, AL  35894-0001

*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:01:18 GMT

In article <Bz9LMz.Cr9.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>In article <WARKENT.92Dec14105516@ltisun14.epfl.ch> warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:
>
>   Refering to a discussion in talk.politics.misc, our New York correspondant,
>   Gary L Dare, wrote parenthetically:
>   > (it's not often one finds a Canadian and devout libertarian ...)
>
>   Except on USENET, which is why I take all discussions in can.* and
>   soc.culture.canada with a large grain of salt.  They certainly are not
>   representative of the country that I know.
>
>American Libertarians and Racists are overrepresented on USENET as
>well.

i assume your implication of commonality between libertarianism and racism
was unintentional.

>
>USENET is good example of why pollsters call people, and not the other
>way around.

true. pollsters are more interested in which tone of "baaa" the sheep
bleat at any given time, not in rational discussion of issues by concerned
citizens. 90% of people are apathetic as hell, why would they bother
with USENET when there's a game on? and libertarians tend to be activist
by nature. i can't speak for racists -- you'll have to ask one yourself.

--
charles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: s1400070@nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: IMMIGRATION ASSES !!!!!!
Organization: Laurentian University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:19:46 GMT

     Are we stupid or what.  During the gulf war, we allowed the despised
Iraqui embassador to immigrate to our country when all others refused
to even consider it.  Now, it has come to my attention that the wife of one of
the most cruel and inhumane Somali warlords is living in Toronto with her 
four children and receiving $2000 dollars a month from welfare.  She received
this money even though she visited Somalia for six months last year.  Her
excuse-  "I missed the plane."  Let's face it, our immigration department is
corrupt and we deserve more accountability.  As far as I'm concerned, 
somebodies ass better be on the barbecue for this one.  
     
                                   John

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,talk.abortion
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:59:49 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16f by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In <TODD.92Dec18123853@ai07.elcom.nitech.ac.jp> todd@ai07.elcom.nitech.ac.jp (Todd Law) writes:
>
>Here is one person suggesting to another person that he/she should be
>dead, all humour aside.

You really need to get your reading comprehension checked.

>Pregnancy is not slavery.

Picking cotton is not slavery.  Unless, of course, you're given no choice
in the matter.

>Another thought experiment:
>
>You are a five-month old fetus.  You are semiconcious in the womb.

How can something incapable of thought be semiconscious?

>You can hear voices outside.  One voice is saying

No functioning brain, and yet it understands English?

You have a vivid imagination.
--
Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,talk.abortion,talk.politics.animals
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:27:11 GMT

Just for thought:

In Canada, if you kill a baby 1 hour *before *it's born, and the 
mother approves, it's called an abortion.

In Canada, if you kill a baby 1 hour *after* it's born, and the
mother approves, it's called murder.

There is no fundamental physical differences between the babies in the
two cases.
From: maj@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Moving to Canada
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:48:06 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1h2ibrINNn12@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>, stevec@unixg.ubc.ca (Steve Cumming) writes:
> In article <1992Dec20.121156.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>>In article <BzJHnG.14o@mach1.wlu.ca>, sweaver3@mach1.wlu.ca (scott weaver 9209 U) writes:
>>> Then why bother reading this newsgroups contributed to mainly by Canadian
>>> PEOPLE, whom you find so boring?
>>> And please don't bother to directly reply to this question, your response
>>> just might be too exciting for me to handle...
>>
>>Why ask the question if you don't want me to reply to it?
>>
>>Anyway the answer is that it amuses me to irritate Canadians.
>>
>>Laurence
>>
> 
> So you admit that your posting to soc.culture.canada is a willful act
> of interferance and vanadalism?
> 
> As I suspected. I would appreciate it if you would stop this
> violation of netiquette and of the groups's charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Steve Cumming		 boreal mixedwood dynamics and rogue
> stevec@geog.ubc.ca				    ... how long you got left?
> 						    well how long do you reckon?
> 							

For goodness sake why don't you all ignore Laurence Godfrey and
answer the original guy's questions?
-- 
Murray A. Jorgensen [ maj@waikato.ac.nz ]    University of Waikato
Department of Mathematics and Statistics     Hamilton, New Zealand      
__________________________________________________________________
'Tis the song of the Jubjub! the proof is complete,
if only I've stated it thrice.'
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:9514 talk.abortion:52410
From: regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:02:34 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <schuck.724638431@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:

>In Canada, if you kill a baby 1 hour *before *it's born, and the 
>mother approves, it's called an abortion.

>In Canada, if you kill a baby 1 hour *after* it's born, and the
>mother approves, it's called murder.

>There is no fundamental physical differences between the babies in the
>two cases.

Except of course for the *minor* detail that 1 hour before it's born
it is surrounded by the body of another person.

And that the birth could conceivably kill that other person.

But that's just a *minor* detail, now isn't it, you clueless twit?

Hardly worth mentioning.

Adrienne Regard
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: dmccrea6@mach1.wlu.ca (doug mccready F)
Subject: Re: Canadian Culture Shock?
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 11:58:26 GMT

While I was going to respond directly to chawley@andy, I decided that since
individuals are replying on the board, I would do so as well. Bowling Green
is in an area not too far from Windsor-Detroit and thus the culture of those
two areas is really quite similar. If he were to be in Northern Ontario
where the distances between towns and the seeming importance of towns of
very small size, there would be some differences in culture but I see the
differences between where he is and southwestern Ontario to be small if any.
It would be more of a culture shock to go from Bowling Green to Mississippi
than to Southern Ontario. 

He should be reminded to carry out-of-country health insurance because the
Canadian hospitals may provide free hospitalization for Canadians, they do
not provide it for people who are here temporarily. He also might be
prepared for the socialism which is rampant in Canada - quite different from
the competition in the U.S. (and prices show it). He might be prepared for
slight differences in the pronounciation of words. I learned when I lived in
Britain that people did roll their r differently and I could actually be
spotted as having come from southern Ontario. He also should be prepared to
find liquor and beer sold only in government stores and stricter laws
governing taverns. In general though the countryside of the area nearest
Chatham to London would best describe the countryside near Bowling Green.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,talk.abortion,talk.politics.animals
From: tjdoran@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (TJ Doran)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:30:17 GMT

In article <1gqqkfINN4mn@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> stevec@unixg.ubc.ca (Steve Cumming) writes:
>In article <BzF17n.Bzw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> tjdoran@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (TJ Doran) writes:
>>
>	stuff about costs of pregnancy to women deleted.
>>
>>Career?!? Plans?!? (Health I can understand...). As a person who almost never
>>made it to the post-natal part, I'm glad my mother decided to put off her
>>career, plans, etc. in favour of my *life*.
>>
>>So is she.
>>
>
>I'm glad your mother considers the outcome of her pregnancy
>worthwhile.  What is at issue is whether she made her decision from
>choice or from respect of rights held by the fetus she was then
>carrying.
>
>Many people think that the former applies.  The fact that *you* are
>glad *you* were born does not confer an obligation on all other women
>to carry their prgnancies to term.  The fact that you are glad you
>were born does not confer rights on fetuses.
>
>This sort of gross {\sl non sequiter} pops up all the time in the debate.
>
>Steve Cumming		 boreal mixedwood dynamics and rogue
>							

Leave it to me to take the fetal point of view...:-)

My mother couldn't bring herself to take the life of another person, despite
the blastular appearance.

As for the appropriateness of my posting, it was just a little something
to think about.

-- 
TJ Doran  	              |"There you stand like a duck in a thunderstorm
TJDORAN@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca | again... Aren't you ever going to understand?" 
                              |                         - W.A. Mozart
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Subject: Re: Speciesism
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:35:32 GMT

> Michael Hui writes:
>
> In article <TODD.92Dec14121806@athena.elcom.nitech.ac.jp>
> todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp writes:
> >If you want to use contradictions to argue with vegetarians, try getting
> >the pro-abortion variety of vegetarians (which most are, in my experience)
> >to explain their consistency.  To these people, a chicken has more right
> >to life than a six-month old fetus.  Gets 'em every time.
>
> Sorry, I fail to see your point. Where is the contradiction?
>

The contradiction is that it's OK to kill a fetus, but not OK to kill a
chicken. I think that you have proven Todd's point.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Moving to Canada
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 01:00:43 GMT

In article <BzIu6w.8wv@mach1.wlu.ca>, sweaver3@mach1.wlu.ca (scott weaver 9209 U) writes:
> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de wrote:
> : In article <1gth1uINNmju@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, francis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
> : > I would like to explore my options regarding moving to
> : > Canada and am wondering if this is the right group to 
> : > discuss the issues.  New Zealand is a really nice place
> : > but I want my kids to get a broader out look on life
> : > by moving to another country.
> : >  
> : > Gary
> : 
> : 
> : Hi,
> :   Canada is a terrible country in which to live, in my opinion.  The
> : place is utterly boring.
> : 
> : Laurence
> : 
> What is so boring about Canada???  Have you actually lived here??
> We've got 3 oceans, lots of mountains, lots of prairies, 'European'
> culture in Quebec City, fishing villages in Newfoundland and the maritimes,...
> We even have beer that would rival the best of your German beer!
> So, again , I ask, what is it you find so 'utterly boring' about Canada?
> -- 

I lived there and worked there for 2 1/2 years from 84 to 87.
Hey wait, I'm no German, I'm just posting from a German machine.  I lived there
too - for 2 years - and I despise the Germans.  I cannot address your comments
re. Canadian beer, as I've never drunk any.

What's so boring about it?  The people.
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:47:14 GMT
	<1992Dec13.202846.24536@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Dec13.213039.11050@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Dec14.065852.3092@news.columbia.edu>
	<WARKENT.92Dec14105516@ltisun14.epfl.ch>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <WARKENT.92Dec14105516@ltisun14.epfl.ch> warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:

   Refering to a discussion in talk.politics.misc, our New York correspondant,
   Gary L Dare, wrote parenthetically:
   > (it's not often one finds a Canadian and devout libertarian ...)

   Except on USENET, which is why I take all discussions in can.* and
   soc.culture.canada with a large grain of salt.  They certainly are not
   representative of the country that I know.

American Libertarians and Racists are overrepresented on USENET as
well.

USENET is good example of why pollsters call people, and not the other
way around.
--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada