HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: "Oriental Dancing"
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:14:56 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1993Jan7.111813.18193@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>
>Not uninformed...  Actually, it's our smartest against theirs, and we lose,
>that's all.

I'm not attacking you, but I don't believe it.  Who selected "our best?"  Who
selected "their best?"  What was used to test?  Who validated the test?  Who
validated selection of the participants?  Who selected the people who
made the selections?  Cite your source for this so called
test and let's look into the specifics and see if there is any validity to
your claim. 

>So in other words you feel that the world is beholden to us.  Amusing.  You
>simply have no idea what the rest of the world has and of which the U.S. is
>bereft.  Hey, but we sher do have money eh?
>
Who should be "beholden" to us?  Let me count the countries.  You can start
off with all of Europe, China and Southeast Asia whose collective asses were
saved by Americans in WWII.  Something about the Marshall Plan and rebuilt
economies.  Have you studied history?  What did Hitler do to Europe?  What
did Japan do to China and Korea.  What more would they have done had
American's not stepped in?  What is happening to people in China today?

Incidentally, I've been all over the rest of the world, and IMHO large
sections of it are a pile of dung.  Not that there aren't nice people
everywhere, and not that there aren't parts of America that are crummy.
Why do you think people in Haiti are tearing their houses apart in order
to build boats which they hope to sail to America?  Certainly not because
they desire to come to a third rate country.  Except for sex change
operations, when was the last time you heard of anyone going outside
the US for medical treatment?

America isn't perfect, and the larger our government gets the farther from
perfection is gets also.  But I've been just about everywhere you'd want
to go, and a lot of places you wouldn't want to go.  I'm certainly
staying here.

But I'm open to new ideas.  Give me some specific examples of those things
that the rest of the world has, of which we are bereft.  I'll be happy
to discuss them.
From: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: TOGAKURE RYU NINJUTSU
Date: 8 Jan 93 07:49:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 

well, "TOGA" would be okay if the word were pronounced "TOGA-gakure" but
it isn't.  More like "to-GAHK-ray".
                   
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: Taiji question - long form versus short forms
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:02:04 GMT

In article <ofGRHem00iU44FzVc0@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	I've been kicking around a question which I'd like to through
>out to the net cream-puffs.
>

Well, I'm a net jelly donut, but I'll respond anyway.

>	Given that you could get equivalent instruction, is the long
>form better for practice or would it be better to have a short form,
>so that you can concentrate on basics?

You can concentrate on basics with either a long or a short form.  You can
also do just one chunk of a long form in a particular workout and concentrate
on whatever you want to.

>	I guess the same applies to folks in other systems with
>long/short forms (hell, who doesn't?). If the form is very long, then
>you may end up slaving away, trying to remember the fine nuances of
>the form, while your attention to basic principles starts to wane.
						    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A long form gives you an opportunity to force yourself, time and again, to 
bring your attention back to basic principles.  And, of course, like any form
long or short, you can examine more advanced principles as well.

>	But if a long form is easy to remember because of multiple
>repeated sequences, then why bother with all the repetition within a
>single form - why not just repeat a shorter form a few times?
>

It's nice to have a form which takes quite a while to practice.  My primary
form is about two hours at average speed.  Sometimes I want to work out for a
whole two hours with a lot of variety.  We have reps, but there is slight
variation in many of them.  For example, we have not only single whip but
semi-single whip, reverse single whip, double whip, and diagonal single whip.
Even where there is direct repetition, some of the reps are done on the
opposite side, or are preceded and followed by different moves (and therefore
have a different context or feel).  

And it gives a great feeling of satisfaction to practice a form which took 3
years to learn.  I got it the old fashioned way:  I earned it!  But taking it
in this lengthy way also taught us that understanding, for example, a single
whip involves more than just learning a form.  It takes time to digest it and
get "into" it, and even when you do there are other ways of doing it which are
valid... in summary, learning is infinite.

By the way, I've learned a shorter form (the 108) as well to complement the
long form.  One of the things about the long form I practice is that the energy
delivery is most often done with the rear leg weighted.  It's usually done with
the front leg weighted in 108.  So I can do a complete "short" form (rather
than just a part of a longer form) and work on different body dynamics, by
doing 108.

>	I'd really appreciate other folk's thoughts on this.
>
>	Stephen Y. Chan
>	stevec+@cmu.edu


Rich

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hannula@viikki.Helsinki.FI (Jaakko Hannula (OPTOIM))
Subject: Judo
Summary: So we are not alone, thanks
Keywords: Kodokan's future
Organization: University of Helsinki, Fac.Agric.For.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:29:19 GMT

Thanks Dan,

I'm really happy that the many aspects of judo are still alive. I didn't
say that shiai is not important. I did it for as period of fifteen years
myself. It is important for one's development. I more felt sorry for all 
these guys who do not realize the richness of this art.

Jaska Hannula
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Escalation
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:48:34 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: psc@sei.cmu.edu's message of 6 Jan 93 19:31:24 GMT


Periodical aphorism (sorry, Larry, wherever you are):

"It is better to live on your feet than die on your knees."

			-- Joseph Heller
			   Catch-22
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

From: mcoonrod@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Mike Coonrod)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:56:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Question: Street Defense
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

A can stop 6' before X and wait until B goes by or does something.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Re: Kendo Newbie Question
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:12:18 GMT

cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:
>In article <hurd.726013754@sfu.ca>, hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd) writes:
>> cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:

>> >Absolutely correct on both points.  It's normal for "beginners" to
>> >spend 2 or 3 weeks learning to walk correctly...  (assuming you're
>> >on the fast track... ;-).
>> 
>> Now this is intrigueing!

>Footwork is probably the most important thing to learn; If you get sloppy,
>you'll lose lots of skin on the bottom of your feet (you will anyway, until
>you get them "toughened up").  You also won't be able to attack properly,
>without proper footwork.

I've always felt that the main limiting factor in my karate training was
the blisters sloughing off the bottom of my feet, at least for the first
18 months of training, and the toughness of the soles certainly disappears
in a couple of months off.  Anyone know a way to keep feet tough when not
actively training?  (Keep in mind that the snow is so deep outside that I
can't move my car).

-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca| Q: Why did the Jungle Fowl cross the road?          |
Behavioural Ecology   | A: To maximize it's lifetime reproductive success   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  | Q: Huh?                                             |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  | A: I guess it just needed to get to the other side. |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jack@serss0 (jack )
Subject: Anyone Practice Gracie
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
 This is in reply to the question "Anyone Practice Gracie".
 First let me tell you a little bit about myself.
 I practiced karate for abou 4 yrs in N.J. Shortly
 after I received my brown belt I moved to Miami, where
 I began training in kickboxing under a very good 
 instructor and international competitor named Harold
 Roth. I quickly realized how much more superior kick-
 boxing was than the karate I had been practicing (my
 opinion). Since my weakness was hand techniques, I
 joined a local boxing club. I did this for several yrs
 until my kickboxing instructor left town. Then, after
 about 8 yrs, I heard about Gracie Jiu Jitsu and foud
 an instructor locally. His name is Gustavo Rocha and
 he trained under Rilion Gracie (thought by many to be
 one of the best of the Gracie's in technique). I was
 one of his first students in Miami and therefore
 received a lot of personal attention. Gracie Jiu Jitsu
 is the kind of thing that you have to experience to
 appreciate. The practices are very realistic and intense.
 Small details which make a technique work are emphasized
 (such as how and where to move your hips when you are
 on the floor on your back in order to execute a certain
 technique). There are very few throws and takedowns and
 most of what we do is ground work. In the same way that I 
 thought my karate was good enough to fight a boxer until
 I found it almost impossible to block hooks and to hit a
 boxer, I also thought that my boxing was good enough to
 fight a grappler until I found myself on the floor tapping
 out after a few seconds of practicing with a Gracie person.
 Now my Jiu Jitsu instructor went back to Brazil and I just
 practice with other students. For extra practice I joined
 a local Judo club and a wrestling club, and after only about
 1 1/2 yrs of Gracie Jiu Jitsu training I have managed to 
 beat (to my surprise) some black belts and some good wrestlers
 in the clubs. In my opinion, Gracie Jiu Jitsu is on of the
 most (if not the most) effective martial arts around. Also
 my opinion, if you can't find a Gracie Jiu Jistu school
 (not too many around), you should at least take some boxing
 and Judo. This will improve your fighting tremendously.
 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:39:46 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: Martial arts and the gut
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:30:00 +0000


> 
> Do you aspire to be a martial artist or to be an athlete or to be a
> handsome person?  You don't say.  Should you aspire at all?  What about
> peace? harmony? understanding? wisdom?  Forget about your belly.
> Forget your muscles.  Observe them as you would observe any worldly
> phenomenon.  Forget yourself.  Next class.  Close your eyes.  Breathe
> deep.  Feel your belly push big into the world, not into the world of
> physical judgment but into the world of being.  Let your eyes roll back
> into your head.  Then join class with acceptance, giving and yielding
> without thought.
> 
> You worry about your belly, but if I were to cut it open with a large
> blade, you would look at me and say not, "Why have you cut my handsome
> belly?" but "Why have you killed my life?"  Then isn't the life more
> important than the belly?  And isn't the spirit more important than the
> life?
> 
> Aikido has a life level and a spirit level, but these cannot be viewed
> while looking at one's belly.  You may feel that you are there for
> belly purposes.  You may feel that you are there for martial purposes.
> But then you allow yourself to be thrown.  No, you are not thrown, you
> accept.  If you can do this, then you have potential beyond the ego
> world of handsomeness and competitiveness.  At the very least, while
> you are waiting for the body, make every effort to glimpse the greater
> offerings of Aikido.  Return when your belly grows fat again and
> eventually realize.
> 
> Good luck.  --Jim
> 
> Headers may be wrong.  Reply to coombs@parc.xerox.com
> 
> 

Wow ! I got very lost there .........
Sensei has quite a gut where I train ... but still manages to move
very fast and in a fluid manner. I wouldn't worry about it,
particularily with Aikido where technique is most important, with
correct technique I gather you don't have to be very fit at all :)

Aurelio
From: tmis1692@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: WANTED: Acupuncturist - New Orleans/BR
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:01:49 -0600
Keywords: acupuncture
Distribution: world
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Can anyone recommend an experienced acupuncturist in the Baton Rouge/New
Orleans area?  It's time for a tune-up.  

Thanks,

Kevin Calmes - TMIS1692@selu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Keywords: aikido, picky
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:00:53 GMT

Hey folks.  I don't play aikido, but with all the feuding over the meaning of
the word kote, I asked a friend who spent 11 years in Japan and is fluent what
the word means.  She said it means "forearm" and the characters literally mean
"little hand".  I haven't asked her if it means a piece of armor which goes
from the wrist to the forearm, since I just read that message and she is not
conversant in armor terminology anyway :^)

The word for wrist is indeed "tekubi" as Andy V. pointed out, and literally
means "little neck".  That makes more sense (to me) anyway - though I don't
understand why forearm would be little hand (more like big hand, to me).

Just thought you'd be interested.

	Rich
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:22:34 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido styles
Distribution: rec

  Another difference i've noticed in teaching emphasis in various aikido
classes is focus on basis.  Im my class we work on basic movements ( Kamae,
Tae no Hinka ichi and ni .. etc.. ) almost every day, and we might spend
several hours working on one technique ( I study yoshinkan aikido ).  In
some other classes I have watched, they demonstrate a technique once or
twice, then have the students do it for 10-15 minutes, then move on..
I don't know if this is a difference gnereally between aikikai and
yoshinkan or just instructors.  Myself, I prefer the focus-on-basics
approach.  Your mileage may vary.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for
protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson, 1814

SEND E-MAIL TO : hanley1@earth.eecs.uic.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: Wary about pre-class workouts (*puff puff*)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:57:30 GMT


mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>> they have workouts before class.. crunches, jumping jacks, pushups, etc..

>I suppose the form of this varies from school to school.  In our school 
>it's not called a "workout", it's called a "warmup" ;-)  


   I think some schools do overdo the "warmup" part of class.  Certainly 
   it is very important to warmup, but I think endless pushups etc. are
   not a good idea.  A better idea IMO is to concentrate on technique at
   the start of class, when you're sharp and fresh.  Then, at the end of 
   class when you're tired and technique gets sloppy, do some endurance
   type exercises to push your limits.  

   Good luck with your class Sam, just take it at your own pace --

     -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:06:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Attitide to female during sparring.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


Fighting men in Judo is a different thing alltogether.  If the woman is really
skilled then she can cope with a stronger male opponent but I reckon that with
two people of equal skill the stronger of the two will have an advantage.

In ground randori, as most of the men are stronger and bigger and heavier than
me they lay off a bit and I'm glad of it.

In standing randori though I can hold my own much better and I don't think that
they give me many concessions for being a woman.  It is always difficult to
know though.

What I do notice is that men often cramp their style by taking a high grip to
avoid holding my lapel at mid chest level.  I know this because occasionally
they complain that they don't like the high grip and one told me once that he
never takes a lapel grip on a woman.  I do appreciate this consideration but
I'm not sure that I'd notice if they just fought with their preferred grip.

cheers

Brenda

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar)
Subject: Re: Aikido styles
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:01:36 GMT

mhirsch@volkl.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) writes:

>I'll add another: Teaching philosophy.  There are (at least) two
>schools of though in _how_ to teach aikido.  

[snip]

>Obviously, most teachers fall in between the two extremes.

>I find it interesting how the teaching style can affect the appearance
>of the Aikido.  If you were to watch a Saito style class and then a
>class that was more of the first type, you might think there were two
>very different arts being taught.  In most cases, however, the
>techniques taught are the same, or only minor variations.  Conversely
>(and obviously) two teachers can have similar styles yet teach very
>different techniques.

I also find this quite interesting.  I have had the good fortune to train
with instructors who complement each other well in this area.  One instructor
believes that gaining an understanding of the flow of the technique is more
important (more emphasis on movement rather than form).  The other instructor
likes to break down the movement step by step ("put your foot here, hold your
hands like this" sort of instruction).

Some of my best learning has been in classes where one of these instructors
was teaching and the other was practicing.
(Two anecdotes then -- if ya don't mind :-)

I had real trouble getting the knack of shomenuchi ikkyo, ura (sp?) form.
The second instructor broke it down when he demonstrated it (light bulbs all
over the place :-), and my partner for practice (the first instructor) kept
me moving continuously until the movement became natural.

I also had trouble taking a hard breakfall from iriminage.  The first 
instructor taught this throw at every class I attended for a couple of weeks,
and each time, after showing the class, he would wander around and demonstrate
on different people while the rest of us practiced.  I got picked for this
frequently and had no end of trouble with the fall.  The problem was, I wasn't
following correctly.  The other instructor broke down the technique down when
I practiced with him, and I saw what I was doing wrong.  Once I got it, I was
never picked to be uke for this technique again.  (Just proving that both
instructors wanted flow AND form! :-)
--
Neil McKellar (mckellar@cs.ualberta.ca)

"There's life and then there's dog tucker!" -- The Dog in "Footrot Flats"

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Subject: Re: Shoes in the dojo (gasp!)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:45:08 GMT
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, Harris Semicondutor

In article <C0EBEL.4Iq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:

|> [snip]  To get your soles in shape as
|> quick as possible, cut off the blisters the night after your first
|> practice.  Leave your feet out in the air overnight (hardening the
|> new skin) and then keep your shoes off as much as possible the next
|> day...

I've always prefered the method of tying one or more loops of thread through
the skin over the blister overnight to dry the new skin underneath, while the
old layer of skin will shrink down and serve as an extra layer of protection
for a few days.  Some claim this is too unsanitary, but I've never had any
problems. 

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
From: news@esl.ESL.COM (news)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Testing
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:52:30 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: ESL Inc., Sunnyvale, CA

Test posting.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Is there an FAQ ?
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:35:42 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.195619.12767@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sxr@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (scott.l.russell) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I normally do not subscribe to this group and know next to nothing
>about martial arts. However my eight year old son is interested in getting
>started - (Post Ninja Turtle response).
>
>With all the different styles and schools, its hard to determine which
>would be best. He is small for his age and probably always will be so
>I want something that would be "useful" as well as fun.
>
>There are two schools very close to my house. One is Goju karate and
>the other is "American (Kenpo) Karate". Any information you could give
>would be appreciated.

Scott,

The very best thing you can do is go down to these schools with your son
and *watch some classes*. I'd pay very close attention to how the
instructor(s) and the students interact. Watch how the students
interact with one another. Do the students and the instructor
respect one another? Do the senior students treat their juniors well, or
do they regard newbies as cannon fodder? Check out the atmosphere of the place -
is it someplace you really want your kid attending? 

If they 
1) Won't *let* you watch a class
2) Try to hustle you into some sort of a long-term contract
3) have some sort of a guaranteed "black-belt" program (pay *n* dollars
   and they'll train you until *they* decide to give you a black belt)
4) Cite ridiculously inflated and unverifiable credentials

leave and don't look back.

I'm kind of a traditionalist, so I approach this sort of question with my own
set of prejudices - as will everyone else who responds to you.  I *know*
what I look for in a school, what you need to do is arrive at a set
of evaluation criteria that meet *your* needs.

What exactly are you looking for? What is your son looking for (or what does
he *think* he's looking for)? 

Steve