From: rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack)
Subject: Re: Adults, Children and sex
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:04:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.212250.11837@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin ) writes:
>Richard Soyack writes:
>
>>Tom Chapin writes:
>>>
>>>>Sigh.  A memory from a better, saner world.
>>>Yes.  Once when ...  ...    Again, the memories were of how to
>>>turn down the requests without hurting the other person, and I knew
>>>that I was the one in power in the situation
>
>>What a bunch of self-serving bullshit.  By these asshole's
>>reasoning, there is no rape.  
>
>I feel deep compassion for Rich and whatever experiences he or his
>loved ones underwent that have led him into his incoherence on this
>topic, and inability to even read what was written.  Note that there
>is no way in which anything that has been said was in any way self-
>serving to anyone writing on the subject.
>
>The topic in question concerns sexual activities between adults and
>children.  One side comprises those who state categorically that there
>can be no such activities without the children being abused, and in
>fact that even bringing up the subject to children is abusive because
>the children are unable to reject advances without danger.
>
>On the other side are those who state that they have proof by their
>experiences that the first side is wrong.  Either they had such
>activities which were not traumatic, or they received advances and
>rejected them without any further undue consequences.  Their
>existence and experiences are a contradiction to the view of the
>first side.
>
>>		If you are so emotionally damaged that you
>>need to have sex with children, then you should lock yourself
>>up.
>
>Again, in his incoherent rage, Rich is responding to a nonexistent
>topic regarding the feelings of *adults* who request sexual activities
>with children.  But the topic here is about the feelings of the
>*children*, and later effects on the children of such experiences.
>
>>Am I angry about this, yes, as angry as a woman who had been
>>raped might be when reading how when a rape attempt is made
>>her only problem is avoiding the sex without hurting the other
>>person.
>
>Yes..."angry"...enraged in fact.  So enraged as to respond, not
>to the reality in front of him on the screen, but instead to
>his fantasies in his mind of what he emotionally feels reality
>to be.
>
>I believe that very little evil is committed by those who are
>deliberately evil or sociopathic.  I believe that the vast
>preponderance of evil in our world is committed by good people,
>by good people who have been abused, abused so badly that they
>have become enraged.  So enraged, in fact, that they feel that
>they must strike back against the evil that attacked them.
>
>But when people become enraged and try to attack evil, they
>become so blind to reality that they strike out wildly and
>harm other good people, who all too often react with anger
>and rage and become abusers in their own turn.  The worst
>problem with abuse, and especially child abuse, is not just
>the pain inflicted on the abused, but the turning of the abused
>into another abuser, sometimes an abuser who attacks directly,
>and sometimes an abuser who attacks indirectly by trying to turn
>institutions into abusers.
>
>While I feel for Rich's pain, and I appreciate the essential goodness
>behind his venting of his rage in a cathartic and harmless or even
>beneficial manner through rather non-violent CRT screens rather than
>against those physically close to him, I hope he can find his way
>beyond his pain to find another form of response beyond rage (and the
>emotional abuse of anyone who does not identify strongly enough with
>his rage).  He's not the only one to be abused or to have those
>around him abused.   But there have to be more loving and compassionate
>means found to respond, in order to hope to break the cycle of abuse
>begetting abuser.
>
>-- 
>	     tom chapin                tjc@hrcce.att.com

I was responding to the echo of the NAMBLA party line that I
read in what you wrote.  They say, "Children want to have sex
with adults,"  and "children can say no if they don't."  I
didn't buy it from them and I don't from you.

I asked Jeff this question, now I'll ask you.

Do you view children as sex objects?