HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: donz@ui.org (Posthumous O'Toole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Criticism
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:56:11 GMT
Organization: UNIX International, Parsippany, NJ

In article <YepN3XO00XQUAq42Ne@andrew.cmu.edu> jb6o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Andrew Barshay) writes:
>Give me the best writer in the world, one who can follow all the rules
>of grammar to a T and who can makes words sing and flow.  If what they
>write does not come from deep within, from a need to express what they
>think and feel in their own way, then they have accomplished nothing. 
>But give me what you may call the common writer, one who has not had
>years of schooling in diction and form.  If this person can turn away
>from society.  If they can renounce their need to conform by it and fit
>in with it.  If they can concentrate on himself and their feelings and
>their life and, as Rilke refers to them, GREAT things, then what they
>will write and what will flow from their mind can only be great.

I must disagree with this statement.  The "common writer" who writes from a
deep need does not necessarily write something "great".  The greatness
comes from the act of his writing, of his assertion, of his desire.  The
only way the words become great is when the writer meshes enough of himself
with the words he writes.  Usually, this will only come with practice and
skill.  Sometimes it will happen to a person when they write their first
poem.  This person is blessed, and an exception to the rule.

So I will take the first writer you mention.  Through his great skill, he
has become one with words.  Therefore, the greatness that is the natural
condition of any person will be evident in what he writes.


Yours,

Posthumous O'Toole
-- 
nobody/not even the rain/              	/	   /      /  /    
 /   /   /     /   /   / /     /       /    /    // /    /  /         /    
/     / / /   /   /     /   / /    / /   / / /  /  /   /      /      /
   / /   /   /	/	 / /      //    /   / /     / /      / / / 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: anonymous
Subject:       .   
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 02:40:53 GMT


Life is small.
But at least it's small
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: jchien@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jennifer Crystal Fang-Chien)
Subject: The Dance of the Cranes
Organization: The Land of Flowers (Stanford U.)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 10:29:35 GMT



	The Dance of the Cranes
	(for Frederick Delse)


	Folding
	His legs like an
	origami crane (except
	these stilts sport hair),
	He hunches over the black
	monitor, his lake,
	as the still-life flock of cranes
	emerges from water, unhearalded.

	"This is cool;
	the script is recursive.
	It repeats an expansion,
	each time the data mass reducing,"
	His arms in search
	of diagrammatic papers
	beat irregularly.

	They fold and unfold before
	him -- these white messengers --
	only a thousand required for
	completion;
	translating into 0's and 1's,
	they emerge under convicted
	keystrokes, 
	only to vanish beneath deletions'
	ripples.

	"Look, it's waiting longer
	than usual;
	it must be compiling right now,"
	He leans forward anticipating,
	his fingers twined,
	praying, for the dance of cranes
	(their perfomance executed in the CPU)
	to resolve syntax-errorless.

	The finishing prompt, ">"
	signals the synchronization and
	the correct thousand of the cranes.

	"Yes!"
	twelve hours of gliding
	black waters
	come to momentary
	stillness.




			--jennifer crystal chien
From: ariel_s@west.darkside.com (Ariel S)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: cara
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:25:06 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

The Hateful Predicament 
Of A Virtual Lover
-----------------------


"Help me,"
he says.
"There is a woman here I think I care for
and I want to reach out to her,
to save her, help her --
and I need you 
to help me."


And it would have to be her, 
it would have to be Cara, 
the one that brought jealousy
finally, even unto me.
Did that part of me, beside you always,
reach out with you, 
touch her scent, recoil, 
knowing, sensing she was yours --
more nearly -- thus more surely,
than I?

"Help me."
I want to help you.
I want to take you in my arms and love you,
touch you, feel you -- feel me,
in the embrace of six foot two.
All my dreams focused in you...
all my patient longings...

"Help me."
I'll help you.
God damn it, I'll send you poetry
that shows you what I am, 
the things you haven't guessed yet,
the trees, the wilds, the throbbing rythm
my soul reaching unto god
in nature, the natural -- 
the power that speaks out to me.
Our mutual deity of no religion...
And you haven't even guessed
it yet, not guessed
that I can feel the forest 
growing...
 
"Help me."
Help you....
Yes I'll help you.
Because you'll love a girl got with someone else's child,
this Cara -- this heart, 
who's name attracted you though you knew not why.
I'll help you.
Because I love you.
And she is there.
To hold you.  To touch you.  
And I am only your virtual love,
your lover, your friend --
A hundred thousand miles away
and never touched by you.
But touched by you...
and so 
I'll help;  
I'll help you...


9/23/92










Notes From The Poets Tower
--------------------------
  
Hold back. Keep silent.  
Speak not as he backs through the door.
Another lover leaving  
as I watch powerless to stop, to act,
to speak my words of power -- reveal myself, 
speak and bind their souls --
touching-- speaking -- their secret desires, 
plain to my poet's eye.

Instead I wave them gently on --
as you must, I smile, 
to your health, I toast.
I cannot give what you require,
no ordinary mortal,
and not a single woman
after all.  
So mind your footing on the staircase!
Give my regards to the pedestrians
below.
Come and visit me sometime
and bring your monogamy along, of course!
Jealousy is not my thing...
Now, never fear --
what's best for you is best for me!
Go on!  That's right!  Ta ta!

The sound of shutting door -- 
all gentleness and haste...
He's gone.

Bolt the latch, close the smiles,
rip off the mask -- cringe before the tearing slash:
another hashmark for my heart, 
that fool-ish organ --
at once so libertine...
and chaste...

Morality
is a real bitch.



9/23/92
From: steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Criticism
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:35:53 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

megazone,

you've proven my theory that people tend to view criticism as this evil,
negative thing....and my whole point is that it should under no circum-
stances be viewed in this manner.  you say that you don't feel like you're
"a good enough poet" -this is a paraphrase- to critique other people's
stuff- you've just taken poetry and sent it off to some ivory tower where
only the elite "real" poets are allowed to investigate (CRITICIZE) the art
form- poetry is for people, as you so eloquently put it when you claim
that you don't attempt to find a genre for your stuff, you don't care
what it's called, you just do it and share it and hope other's share
with you- right on. this is how criticism should be practiced- if you're
not too afraid or insecure to wrtie and post then you shouldn't be too
insecure to form a meaningful dialogue (CRITICISM) with another writer
regarding their work.  and criticism is never saying "this sucks," and
always, always investigating new and different ways of approaching different
pieces and ideas, criticism is admitting that most poems fail, no matter
who you are- you think Atwood, Piercy, Sexton write in a vacuum, you think
the "big' poets don't value criticism, know when and how to take, when to
drop it off and forget it- and slowly groping, together, to somehow get
closer to success, the truth. in short, criticism is merely learning
how to communicate with others about our art, our lives,  how we all
move and work together in the human project, and if people feel "touchy"
about critiquing others, it's not surprising, but it's no excuse to step
out into the margins and leave the POSITIVE experience behind.

yours thoughtfully,

sls
--

=======================================================================
			   Stephanie Steele
			steele@chip.aem.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Sheila Herndon)
Subject: Re: Looking for e e cummings poems.
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:13:41 GMT

<92286.024030DED110@psuvm.psu.edu> Dan the Man <DED110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>     Does anyone know of an anon-ftp site that has e e cummings poems
...

You may have to be reduced to checking an actual book out of a library!

Anyway, here is a beautiful poem, by ee cummings with a wonderful line in
it.

	here's to opening and upward,to leaf and to sap
	and to your(in my arms flowering so new)
	self whose eyes smell of the sound of rain
 	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that's it. it's beautiful. Too beautiful to type the rest of the poem.
Go look it up. In my book >>100 selected poems<< it is #42.
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: ross@skatter.usask.ca
Subject: Spellcaster
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:10:29 GMT

This is another poem I wrote, vaguely dubbed 'Spellcaster'.
Criticism is welcomed.  Yeah, even the negative stuff.


	It is time.

	I tremble in anticipation.
	I assemble my ingredients,
	move from gesture to stance,
	whisper a final blessing,
	everything just so:
	and begin...

	I incant, and feel it take me.
	My thoughts rush like the winds,
	moving, swirling, gathering,
	to suddenly dash,
	rolling like thunder,
	over the hills
	that stop so many.

	The Song rises from my core
	and I sing,
	oblivious to the world around me.
	I feel the strain and the tension
	and it feels good,
	long-unused muscles stretching,
	gathering strength,
	and I sing,
	for the emotions that I feel,
	the smiles and the tears.
	I use my faculties to the fullest
	and I sing.

	I race over the hills,
	touch rivers and roads in passing,
	run for the mountains,
	touching only the peaks,
	and launch myself.

	I keep soaring
	upward and onward,
	needing no atmosphere
	or starship.
	The winds fade.
	I see the stars,
	and they echo my Song.

	I fly about the stars,
	touch ideas,
	taste concepts,
	move them, shift them,
	see solutions.

	I am happy here,
	knowing what I know,
	seeing what I see,
	being who I am.
	I know joy,
	and I sing.

	That is what it is
	to use my abilities,
	to play with them,
	to make the problem or puzzle become the game.

	That is that
	that I call
	Spellcasting.

	I have so much joy,
	and yet,
	I wish for one more:
	that I may share
	my knowledge
	and my perceptions
	and my joy.

	Is there one who can follow me?


				Stardate 9010.18
From: mrxall01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: <None>
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:39:20 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

  SPLINTER
  --------




From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:02:58 GMT
Subject: Re: perching look Re: Creation of Urdu newsgroup
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems

In rec.arts.poems, donz@ui.org (Posthumous O'Toole) writes:

> In article <7710577@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
> )In rec.arts.poems, donz@ui.org (Posthumous O'Toole) writes:
> )> Yours,
> )> 
> )> Posthumous O'Toole, Defender of the Realm
> )
> )You LIE!  You LIE!
> )
> )I am the defender of the realm.  I am.
> 
> This is ridiculous.  You are a no-account militant rebel.

As such, it is I who mount the true defense, and you know it.
True defense does not come from the sanctioned heights
of a mound of bureaucracy, ritualistic approval, and
self-congratulatory reinactment of historic battles.

> 
> )I always have been.  Not you, you 
> )son of perdition, you dead thing,
> )you offal of Pluto and Cerberus.
> 
> If you weren't Messiah O'Toole, I'd be really angry.  As it is, you will be
> sacrificed soon enough  (though not soon enough for me!).

I know that all along, and even now, you scream for my blood,
but even when you have it, it will vex and confound you for you
will think in your noble heart of hearts, "I have slain the 
defender."  And you will always wonder how long, how long, until
I returt to defend again.

I prepare my will.  I finalize transactiona and organize my affairs.
I am prepared for the ordeal.

> )
> )Have a care O'Toole 
> )or this just might lead
> )to a duel.
> )
> I fear not thy miscreant hands.

My hands are under their own direction, and they flutter and
flick off and about on tasks of their own at every moment of
daily movement.  It is not the hands you need fear, mock-defender.

It is my eyes and stomach you must take care to avoid.
My eyes can devour you, and my stomach feels your every
pernicious inclination.

No, my hands will gladly yield me over to your sacrificial plans.
My hands do not care to associate with me, and they will help
you as they can in my destruction.  But my eyes will scorch
you even from the depths of my pyre.  I promise you O'Toole,
my eyes will burn last, and until that final moment when they
too will join the smoke that seeks kinship with clouds,
those eyes will see you.  They will see you in ways you have
never been seen before and in ways you will never be seen again
until I return to you with a gift and a graft.

So defend your realm, Posthumous.  I write my will and await 
my fate.

doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: ballms@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (BALLMS)
Subject: ark
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:04:00 GMT


ARK, ARK,  ark ark Bark aRk.
From: bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Poem - Augustus
Keywords: On May-December and a guilt-ridden widower
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:10:57 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


AUGUSTUS

The month of Caesar can never be...
  the midpoint to eternal harmony
	between four and twelve;
Day and Night, mixed well, form
  peaceful, blue-grey twilight os
	life-giving, coral morn...

	but vows spanning scores
	refuse to bow gracefully.

One fourth past two hearts died -
  as one stopped beating.
July fell, heavy, into November.

Bleak Night pursued swiftly with
  memories fresh in each glowing star,
	dying only as they fall...
When all the stars descend the sky
  and, fading, bring surcease of winter;
	Night will turn to Day once more.

-Tracy Flynn-Marsh
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:48:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Shades of Green
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems

In rec.arts.poems, donz@ui.org (Posthumous O'Toole) writes:

> In article <1992Oct8.134002.1425@cbnews.cb.att.com> webdw@cbnews.cb.att.com (bruce.d.woods) writes:
> >In article <262@uiunix.ui.org> donz@ui.org (Don Zirilli) writes:
> >>
> >> [my article deleted]
> >
> >
> >BIGGEST WASTE OF BANDWIDTH I'VE EVER SEEN!
> 
> Well, NOW the biggest waste of bandwith you've ever seen is your re-posting
> of my entire article.

You tell him.  Regardless of the quality of what you wrote, not editing
the response given the critique rendered was an act of sheer
hypocrisy.

doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Sheila Herndon)
Subject: Re: Criticism
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:23:38 GMT

I like it when people are brave enough to tell me what they think
I meant when I write a piece, or what I am trying to communicate.
Usually I am too timid to do this for someone else. When someone
else does this to one of my pieces, then I can compare what they
thought I said to what I think I said.
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: psgoh@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Goh)
Subject: My Obsession! with TIME...
Originator: psgoh@pieman
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston (formerly TSIT)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 11:28:22 GMT


My obsession! with TIME...
========================

TIME! - so elusive,
	time of before
	time of after
	  Slipping by, never to be seen.
TIME! - one of endless change,
	time to regret
	time for joyful memories
	  Where have they been.

TIME! - makes and builds history,
	time, so eternal
	time, yet so perpetual
	  Moving forever, swift and fast.
TIME! - to remember and cherish,
	is time in the present
	and time to come in the future
	  Together with time felt of the past.

	Yes - TIME!;
	           through the beginning
			will again begin at the
	          		END.....

(13/10/92)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: pnaic
From: jabolliger@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:58:57 EST

	Pnaic 
	
	Against the wrought iron
	Erika crouches; fists clenched
	screaming midst shattered glass
	watching her sister's hand

	held high.  Frantic
	Geli spreads her blood
	across the porch; over
	her brother's newspapers.

	He stares, hesitant to touch
	the papers; silent
	under his sisters's wails.

	Mouth open Geli clutching her fingers
	watches the pulpy flow.

	Not commanding it's source
	she is afraid of this river
		nor knowing where it goes.


Jean Ann Bolliger
October 1992
From: bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Poem - Bell Tower at Midnight
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:51:30 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


BELL TOWER AT MIDNIGHT

Looking here within the walls I see the bells;
	copper, brass,
	steel, bronze...
  they glisten with the dew of night,
  are sprayed with the green mist
	of age.

Slowly I caress...the heat from my palm
	warms cool metal,
	stirs sound from the depths
  of the sleepy giants.

Cold platinum moonbeam beckons...I look
	through the window,
	see a courtyard
  bathed in the gentle moonlight; fine, glowing
	radiance permeates,
  makes the greenery shine with ethereal beauty...
	a faerie stage.

Looking up, toward the Source;
	the globe of mercury
	seems to pulse and
  joins my heart on its race through time.


-Tracy Flynn-Marsh
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre
From: feldman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Todd J. Feldman)
Subject: Ram's Head presents "Little Shop of Horrors"
Originator: feldman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: pa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:57:20 GMT




Well, it's finally approaching!  After months of planning, Ram's Head is
beginning production of "Little Shop of Horrors" to be performed early in
Winter Quarter.

As musical director, I am trying to find someone interested in any or 
all of the following positions:

	Audition Pianist
	Rehearsal Pianist
	Assistant Vocal Director
	Orchestra (keyboards, drums, guitar)

My hope is to combine the first three, but this is certainly not 
necessary.

If you're interested or would like some more info, please contact
me, Todd Feldman, by e-mail (feldman@cs.stanford.edu) or by
phone at 723-1809 (Stanford) or 691-9978 (home).

Thanks!!

Todd
From: MR_CA_CBU@OSI.OHIO.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre
Subject: Great Response to CT Fundraising pkg critique request
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:31:00 GMT


9-Oct-1992 08:25
message kinda long - 70 lines
Dear Friends,

I've had a very encouraging response to my request for critiques of our 
PR package.

The "first wave" of the package will go out UPS over the weekend - look 
for it soon.

We are situated in a small town - 30,000 or so - in an economy and market 
trying to switch from light manufacturing to service - this area has been 
considered by some as being the center of 'art' pottery - Weller, 
Roseville, Mosaic Tile, etc. - and still has some potteries going, but 
nothing like the previous 60 years....

We have one of the few, if not the only (gotta check my facts), Y-Bridge. 
Within the county, we have the only Longaberger Basket manufacturing 
plants - these are hand-woven baskets collected all over the world - I'll 
include a flyer taken from the local Chamber of Commerce's brochures to 
give you an idea of the market.

We own our building and equipment - have no debts, seat 106, and are 
fully handicapped accessible.

So you're aware of our production schedule, let me give you last year's 
(1991-1992) and this year's (1992-1993) schedule:

1991-1993 - I haven't the dates but here are the shows:
Man of LaMancha - Sept
The Foreigner - Oct/Nov
First Annual Angel Tree Benefit - Dec
Death of A Salesman -  Feb
Children's One Acts - April
Guys and Dolls - May

1992 - 1993 Season - Our 30th. Anniversary

OLIVER   September 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 27, 1992
Auditions: July 19, 20, 1992 at 7:00pm

THE SUNSHINE BOYS   October 30, 31, November 1, 6, 7, 8, 1992
Auditions: September 21, 22, 1992 at 7:00pm

2nd. ANNUAL ANGEL TREE BENEFIT   December 5, 6, 1992 

WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF?   January 8, 9, 10, 15, 16, 17, 1993
Auditions: November 2, 3, 1992 at 7:00pm

GODSPELL   March 5, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 1993
Auditions: January 11, 12, 1993 at 7:00pm

THE TAMING OF THE SHREW   April 23, 24, 25, 30, May 1, 2, 1993
Auditions: March 8, 9, 1993 at 7:00pm

WINNIE THE POOH   June 11, 12, 13, 1993 (2 evening, 2 matinees)
Auditions: April 26, 27, 1993 at 7:00pm 

Sorry for the length - but keep those cards and letters coming.

Good weekend to you all.

Carl
MR_CA_CBU@OHIO.GOV
MR_CA_CBU%ODNVMS@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre
From: murray@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Thomas Murray)
Subject: Re: INTO THE WOODS
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences, Evanston, IL
	<1992Oct8.132729.8739@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<Bvt3J8.99q@acsu.buffalo.edu>
	<1992Oct9.173826.2250@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:35:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.173826.2250@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rad2r@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Robert DeLine) writes:

>  I think making Into the Woods too dark is a big mistake.  An example of
>  this is the Red Riding Hood/Wolf sequence from Act I.  I think one could
>  easily go to far with the darkness of this scene, for example by making
>  the rape illusions more explicit. Making this scene sinister would
>  really ruin the fun (at least IMHO).

You must have seen our recent production here at Northwestern
University.  One *can* go to far with these concepts.  We proved it.
It was an unfortunate mistake on our part, I think.  As Jon said,
people attracted to Sondheim are often attracted to the dark subtexts
of the material. I think we fell into that trap.  A good lesson
learned, especially in the case of INTO THE WOODS.  Now if were doing
SWEENEY...

-tom


Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre
From: melzie@wam.umd.edu (mel-zo-rama)
Subject: Dinner Theatre Fun 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:10:53 GMT



	If anyone in the Maryland/Washington area is interested in
seeing an interesting interpretation of Phantom of the Opera, I'd suggest
the Act Two Dinner Theatre's show that open on December 5th.

	Okay, so I'm biased [since I'm in the show] but it really
does seem unique and the harmonies are wonderful.

	And if you do come, hope you enjoy :)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre