HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: time's arrow part ii
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:39:42 EST

>>> SPOILERS
>>>



>    Also, how long does it take a photon torpedo to reach the surface? That
>seemed awfully long.
>    One other thing I don't quite remember: what happened to the ophidian at
>the end? And was the thing a creature or just some kind of artifact?

How long?  I don't think ti was THAT long.  What I thought long was the
time it took to PROGRAM it.  It was quite obvious that they were
stalling to save Picard, but in doing that they twisted the Trek
Universe immensly.  I seriously doubt programming the computer to shoot
a torpedo spread takes FIVE minutes!!!

Anyways, when they DID fire, I believe they cut to the planet scene in
which Picard lay there watching the aliens phasing in and out, and in
the background was the explosion of the torpedoes.  Also, before that
Worf informs Riker that he's set them to detonate at 10(?) minute
intervals.  Of course I could be wrong.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET: bernie.wong@canrem.com

 * OLX 2.1 TD * <mumbling under breath> Well I hope you're happy... Kirk
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: MORE STAR TREK PRANKS
Date: 5 Oct 92 08:16:34 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Nell Carter's Pool Boy writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <BvMGzs.L4y@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
> Posted: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:21:27
>
> Org.  : University of Illinois at Urbana
>
> <WITHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>
> >In article <25SEP92.10987625.0079@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
> >(CXMP000) says:
> >>Sign Beverly's name on a valentine to Picard.
> >>
> >Better yet sign Troi's name on a valentine to Picard.
>
>
> Just for the hell of it, insert a little code in the computer that randomly
> cascades orders and displays...
>
> Picard: Mr. Data, ahead warp factor six.
> Computer: See you later, I have a cake batter to mix.
> Computer (different voice):  Mr. Crusher, why don't you do well with
> chicks?
> etc...
>
> (But what would it come up with when Riker finally says "What the hell is
> going
> on here?!!!)


Computer: "Would you like to have a cold beer?"

Whereupon Data would tilt his head...


--
Jeremy_Reimer@ |"Anti-ninjas were the most feared assassins in the world.
mindlink.bc.ca | Instead of appearing out of thin air, throwing metal stars
---------------| and messing around with bo staffs and numchuks they simply
aka THE JAGUAR!| shot people and then drove everyone mad with pointless
---------------| conspiracy theories for years afterwards."
Stealth Sig#42 |  --From "N-Man #3"
From: tvf@cci632.cci.com (Tom Frauenhofer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Twain dead? NOT
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:17:36 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Applications Systems, Rochester, NY

In article <22584@galaxy.ucr.edu> judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson) writes:
>In article <80687@ut-emx.uucp> aodn174@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Jennifer Baughman)  
>writes:
>
>
>> >the watch, then Twain would be almost dead. And I believe he spent
>> 
>> Actually, if I remember correctly, Twain didn't die until 1910,
>
>Fact is, Twain was famous for his quote about Halley's Comet, which I don't
>remember word for word, but he did fulfill his quote in that he was born at

"I came in with the comet, I'll go out with the comet."

(I believe that's it, but that's from memory)

>one visit of Halley's Comet and died at another visit of the same.  And, 
>I'm not sure of the date, but one visit of the comet was in 1856 and another
>in 1910.  Therefore, he most certainly would have been alive for the episode.

And did everyone catch the Halley's Comet remark Twain made?  I loved it.
--
Thomas V. Frauenhofer, WA2YYW, tvf@cci.com, ...!uunet!uupsi!cci632!tvf
Mandlebratwurst: The Meal that Eats Itself!
From: AT.MLM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Miller)
Subject: Forward Time Travel?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:01:10 GMT

With the recent airing of Time's Arrow, Parts I and II, a question
popped into my head.  Between TNG and TOS, Trek has had no shortage
of time travel episodes, where one or more members of the Enterprise
go backward in time.  Or where someone else comes forward or
backward in time, to the time wherein that particular Enterprise is
residing.  Now, am I correct in concluding that no TOS or TNG
episode has ever involved the Enterprise or one of its crew going
*forward* in time?  I've been an avid watcher of Trek since TOS
first aired, and for the life of me I can't recall anything like
that.  If I am correct, is there some stated or unstated reason for
this?  I don't mean in the technical sense of "Can one actually
engage in time travel, whether it be forward or backward?"; I mean,
have the writers and/or producers had a philosophical or dramatic
aversion to doing such an episode?

Off the top of my head, I can easily imagine that it could open up
some issues that would be hard to resolve, though it might well be
interesting to try.  The most obvious, to me, being that with even
the tiniest foreknowledge of the future, the possibility of changing
that future pops up.  Of course, Data could be ordered to suppress
any knowledge of the future (as occured in a different context in
"Clues"); and a memory wipe could be tried with the rest of the
crew (also as in "Clues", I believe, as well as in an episode with
Pulaski, the title of which escapes me at the moment).  But the
wipe didn't work in "Who Watches the Watchers?", and might fail with
one or more of the crew.  In any event, I think that opening up the
possibility of forward travel could create some interesting dramatic
avenues.  (By the way, "Yesterday's Enterprise" hinted at the
potential for dealing with what I'm driving at, a case study of how
a Federation starship deals with the psychological and temporal
consequences of forward travel, if one were to follow what happened
to the crew of the Enterprise-C.  "Y's E" suggested that the C was
to be inevitably destroyed, but "Redemption II" indicated that at
least some of the crew survived.  But of course, the C's crew isn't
what we're interested in, and in any event, it's knowledge was of an
alternative reality that never "really" occured; further, they
returned to their time to "correct" the course of time, whereas what
I'm concerned with, in part, is how one *prevents* the future from
changing, given that one has knowledge of it.  Or can you?)

Any comments/suggestions?
From: 00jdbecktel@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Reason why TNG is downhilling
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:39:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Oct1.133957.10022

I'll tell you why TNG is going downhill...it's too much a family show by now.
They don't use very technical terms any more and plots are simple.
In Time's Arrow II, I thought the writers were really pushing the terms when
Data claimed that a part of his mechinism was really toxic to human flesh over
a period of time?

It's too family now. No Trekkies, Trekkers, just Mom and Dad.
They'll probably be at the conventions too.

"No Mom, he's not an albino, he's just dressed like Data. Now go get Nimoy's
autograph for me."
							-Sherlock

-- 
      SSSS       
     SS   S        
     SS           
      SSS    
        SS       
	SS	   
   S   SS         	 00jdbecktel@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
    SSS  herlock   	 sherlock@bsu-cs.bsu.edu        
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: "Time's Arrow" POSSIBLE SPOILERS
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:04:15 GMT

Itty spoiler (maybe)



Did anyone else feel that they got the idea for Picard sending the
"don't fire the torpedoes message" from "Bill and Ted's Excellent
Adventure"?


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Schroeder  		|  
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |             Boo. 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |
From: tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: "Time's Arrow" POSSIBLE SPOILERS
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:47:38 EDT
Reply-To: tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood) writes:

> In article <1992Sep24.163708.13037@pony.Ingres.COM>, sergio@Ingres.COM (Sergi
> 
> Gee, since we're playing "what if":
> 
> >>>>   question #2) Why would Guinan and Picard NEVER meet if Picard did
> >>>>     not go?:
> 
> > 	If Picard had not gone, when the crew comes back, they might have gone
> > 	ahead with the bombing of the cavern, given that they would all be
> > 	back and no notice would have been left in Data's head, thus
> > 	possibly destroying the cavern, earth, Guinan, etc, etc...
> 
> What if Data had simply fired up his 500 year-old-head when he had the chance
> 
> If Geordi could do it, I'm sure Data could have.  Why did Data simply assume
> that because his head was "found" that he was dead?  He could have fired up
> his 500 year old head and found out all of this in one episode instead of
> dragging all of this out to 2 epsiodes.
> 
> (Or at least he would have backed up his mind if he was afraid of being
> killed.  "A mind is a terrible thing to waste" -- United Android College Fund
> 
> Data probably didn't fire up his old head because the episode would have
> been over.  What do you do with the rest of the 45 minutes of show? ;-)
> 
> > 	It is Picard who sends the message forward (a binary message with an
> > 	iron piece!! ;-)) to keep them from destroying the cave with normal
> > 	torpedoes...
> 
> Yea, that Picard is a really bright guy.  He must have come up from Engineeri
> (he's a red shirt after all) if HE can put a binary message into Data's head.
> 
> Not only can he run a Star-ship, he's pretty good with a screwdriver (oops,
> iron filing)!  I would have been more convinced if Picard had put a hand
> written note into Data's MOUTH. ;-)  It's just a bit too much of a stretch
> to believe that HE could put a binary message into Data's "static" memory.
> 
> Is Data so simple that just about anybody can use him for a note pad?!?!
> 
> Now, what do you suppose the problems are with having a 500 year old head?
> Or for that matter, a 500 year old pocket watch that Sam Clemens now carries?
> 
> Terry
> -- 
>         INTERNET: tjw+@pitt.edu         BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS
> "Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!"                        - Lord "John" Warfi
> "There can be only one!"                                  - The Highlander
> "There should have been only one. I want my money back!"  - Terry

Why is it hard to believe that Picard has technical skill? You don't get 
to be the captain of a Galaxy class starship (the Enterprise at that) for 
being an idiot. Picard is in his mid-60's and has been galloping around 
space for about that last 40 years of his life. He probably learned at 
least a few things in that time.

Did anybody catch Twain's reference to Market Street at the end?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: New Voice-Over (Spoilers for TA2)
From: hef@vitro.com
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:05:58 -0500
Organization: Vitro Corporation
Nntp-Posting-User: persjc

Spoilers for TA2 ahead...

Space.  The final frontier.  These are the voyages of the starship
Enterprise.  Its continuing mission...to seek out new life and new
civilizations...AND DESTROY THEM!

            ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
           //
          //   Mike Heffner               Internet: hef@vitro.com
\\\\\    //  Vitro Corporation
    \\  // 14000 Georgia Avenue          "To understand recursion,
     \\// Silver Spring, MD 20906  you must first understand recursion."
      \/                                        -- Unknown
From: barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: nudity on trek
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:43:28 CDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <1992Oct6.112231.29722@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>, amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael) writes:
 (everything deleted)

Well, I guess this one will get Peter David's attention!  :+)

(in-joke for those who also subscribe to r.a.comics group).
-- 
************************************************************************
Jeff Barnes                   "Mike, if my father were alive today, you
Western Kentucky University          know what he'd say?"
BarneJD@WKUVX1.BITNET         "'Help, help, get me out of this coffin'?"
The few, the proud, the LNH!                -SPIDER-MAN 2099 #1
My opinions are not necessarily those of WKU, but they should be!  :+)
************************************************************************
From: v070p6nd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Anthos)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:25:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SUNY at Beefalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <chil.718279123@sfu.ca>, chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim) writes...
>v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
> 
>>     There are thousands of scenarios you can concoct.  Thousands
>>     that I can concoct.  The simple answer is: O'Brien is an
>>     enlisted man, and Meaney's costume has finally been altered
>>     to reflect what scripts in the past several seasons have
>>     shown.
> 
>[Flame on]
> 
>You must miss the irony in your own posting. It is the people in the "O'Brien
>is a CPO" camp who have to concoct complicated, often contrived scenarios to
>explain all kinds of things. (Examples: how could a CPO be a Tactical Officer?
>why does a CPO wear Lieutenant's pips? why are there no other noncoms around?
>etc.) I just read a new one about O'Brien's pips being silver, while 
>everyone else's are gold. (Give me a break!)
> 
>Whereas those of us sensible ones in the "O'Brien is a Lt" camp *don't need*
>to sweat over concocting plausible (or implausible) scenarios to explain away
>all the questions. O'Brien is a Lt. O'Brien wears Lt pips. Sergei Roschenko
>calling him a CPO was the YATI. Simple.
> 
>Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
> 
>-- 
>Keith_Lim@sfu.ca   Simon Fraser University, Burnaby B.C., V5A 1S6, Canada
>Hon Cog Sci; Min Psyc; Forum; Senate; CDSU; URC; ASC; FARSIDE; LEAD; CCCS
>I officially represent each and every one of the above bodies--NOT!
> 
>"Perhaps you're just different. It's not a sin, you know--though you may
> have heard otherwise."                     --Tam Elbrun, ST:TNG "Tin Man"

But if O'Brien is a Lt., then why is being DEMOTED FOR DS9?  The uniform Colm
wore for Realm of Fear is THE SAME ONE HE WEARS FOR DS9(the episodes are being
shot as we speak).  He will not be a Lt. in DS9, but a lower rank, according to
Paramount, the writers, the costuming dept., and everyone else associated with
TNG and DS9.

Think about it.

Anthos, the Grey Knight, High Preist of Minikar, God of Chaos, Horrible Puns,
                                                  and Extremely Bad Form
================================================================================
Across time and space/ The grey knight cometh/ With dragons to rape/
Madiens to slay/ Castles to sack/ Towns to pillage/ Quarterbacks to plunder

Oh, how I am confused!
===========I wish this was a .sig so I wouldn't have to type all this===========
From: willmann@seismo.CSS.GOV (Raymond Willemann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Realm of Fear costuming question (no spoiler)
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:15:15 GMT
Organization: Center for Seismic Studies, Arlington, VA


In article <jgasaway-300992131515@mac20-199.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Gasaway) writes:
|> 
|> I too would like someone to explain O'Brien's rank.  I understand the
|> officer's rank insignia because it follows our own military rank structure.
|>  But O'Brien is enlisted.  I don't think he used to wear insignia, but now
|> he does.  How do you tell enlisted rank on ST?
|> 

But why should there be enlisted people at all in Star Fleet?

On board 20th century ships enlisted people swab the deck, etc. (but
the Enterprise cleans itself), cook food (replicators, obviously)
and generally do what nobody would really want to do.  

Officers, in contrast, make decisions and engage in fulfilling work.
Isn't everybody supposed to have fulfiling work in the 24th century,
since all of the routine stuff is supposed to be handled by computers
and machines?  Why would Star Fleet want somebody who could never do
any of the things that officers do today?

Even leaving aside the ambiguous case of O'Brien, there are enlisted
people.  For example, the guy whose Vulcan parent was dug up by the
McCarthyite admiral.  But aren't they an anachronism?  

In the 24th century, could "enlisted" have come to mean something 
different?  A junior officer?  Somebody who didn't go through Star
Fleet Academy?  (Just as not all naval officers today go to the U.S.
Naval Academy.)
From: scsd1005@altair.selu.edu (Terry Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: r.a.s.c. readers can never be satisfied
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:55:32 GMT
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

In article <tlm1.717568116@Ra.MsState.Edu>, tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:

     [...material deleted]
> 
> I only follow this group lightly, because I found out that I can enjoy the
> shows much more if I don't read all the critisms posted here.  If there
> was something kinda flakey that I missed, well so much the better.  I
> really don't care to have all the "errors" and plot "holes" pointed out to
> me.  I really like almost all of the shows.  Its more of a feeling than a
> simple count of errors and inconsistencies. 
> 
> Flame me if you wish, I don't care.   ...

> 
> New week we get to see what it looks like to be transported!  Have fun.
> --
> Terry Matula
> tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
> matula@ee.msstate.edu

Good point. There can be a lot of enjoyment of the episodes if we
just accept them as they are presented without constantly and
minutely dissecting them. Yet some of us, myself included, enjoy
that "dissecting." It's kinda fun to take apart a particular plot
against our own concept of "reality." And, God! how we disagree!

An occasional "flame" can add a little spice to the discussions.
But I saw nothing in your post to flame you for. Keep trying,
though.  <g>

   best,
     ...terry
From: neal.pritchard@f605.n712.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Neal Pritchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Borg as Humans (Huma
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:10:16 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: Demirtjis@Kuhub.Cc.Ukans
DE>        If I remember well, in the book "Vendetta", the Borg assimilates
DE>a Ferengi in order to get a new "spokeperson" (since they weren't too
DE>successful with Picard). So it seems that they know about non-humanoid
races
DE>and can assimilate them in the collective.

Can't always trust books though...

Neal Pritchard
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X All wiyht.  Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: THE WHITE LODGE (3:712/605)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: m-overmier1@uiuc.edu (Mark Overmier)
Subject: Time's Arrow - Data's Head
Organization: Personnel Services Office
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:42:22 GMT

How is it possible that Data could hold his own head?  How could he have 
two heads (actually the same one) occupying the same time and space? 
This seems to conflict with the theories of time travel I know that 
the same entity (or parts thereof) cannot occupy the same time.	

Looking for answers....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Mistake in Borg episode
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:10:35 GMT

In article <BuzMzB.1IC@cs.dal.ca>, roy@ug.cs.dal.ca (David Roy) writes:
> 
> I have noticed a small error in the episode where the Borg capture and
> assimilate Capt. Picard.  The first words Picard (as Locutus) says is
> 	"I am Locutus of Borg...."
> 
> This is incorrect with the Borg as we are led to understand them in the
> later episode called (I believe) 'I Borg', where the Borg cannot use, or
> rather cannot understand the usage of the word I... All of the Borg are
> one, they cannot understand themselves as seperate due to the fact of the
> combined consciousness they all have.
> 
> I hope I am clear in what I am attempting to say... Comprende?
> 
> L8er...
> 
> David Roy
> roy@ug.cs.dal.ca


Yep, I comprende.  IMHO "Locutus" is more of a title than a name.  It is
Latin, and means (approximately) "Speaker" or "Speaker For".  The Borg
used this title for Picard because he was "speaking for" the Borg to the
Federation, who they felt would not understand another form of communication.
They probably got the word from Picard, who seems like the sort of man who
would know Latin, since he seems to be interested in the Classics, and in
Archaeology.  As to why they felt compelled to use Latin, not Federation 
Standard, I haven't got a clue!  Perhaps the Borg like dead languages.

Kellie M-S
internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: phurley@tamu.edu (Philip W. Hurley)
Subject: Re: deep space nine
Organization: Computer Technology Group, TAEX
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 05:28:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.161009.13324@ncsu.edu> rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu writes:


>What's Deep Space Nine?

Deep Space Nine is the spin off of ST:TNG. See the FAQ.
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers] You have it all wrong! *The
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:27:11 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <2OCT199216362911@reg.triumf.ca> lahaye@reg.triumf.ca (RAYMOND GABIN , TRIUMF OPERATIONS) writes:

>	Actually the watch episode makes no sense.  Follow me on that one:
>Twain finds his 'lost' watch on the enterprise.  He pockets it and return to
>his own time zone. Now he decides to leave it there to be found in the future. 
>Wow! Wait a second! How did he lose his watch in the first place? Although time
>travel is a funny concept, time kept going forward for each participant:  Twain
>did not go back to his past: he only went to the future and returned to the
>cave at a time after his departure from the past.  So when did he first
> lose his watch? HE NEVER HAD A WATCH IN THE FIRST PLACE.  The man STOLE it
> from the Enterprise, and in a fit of honesty ( Yea, right!) he LEFT it behind
> in the cave.  I hope someone out there followed me!! Cheers

I followed you, but you missed something.  Here's how it went:

Clemens drops his watch.  We don't know why (we'll find out why later). About
500 years later, the Enterprise crew finds the watch that he dropped, and
takes it back to the Enterprise....  They go back in time.  Data's head
gets blown off his shoulders, and in the explosion, Clemens drops his
watch (the same thing that happened in their past - 500 years earlier).
His watch is left behind when he goes forward to the crew's time.  He
finds the watch that they found, and takes it.  He puts it in his pocket.

He then goes back to his own time.  He sees the watch that he had just
dropped (in the explosion), and picks it up.  He's about to pocket it,
when he remembers two things:  1)  He's already got a watch, the watch
that he picked up in the future.  2)  This watch has to be left here
so that it can be found in the future.  So he leaves this watch.  He
is now carrying the 500 year old watch, and the 'new' watch is left
in the cave, to age 500 years, where it will be found by the Enterprise
crew, and the process begins again.  There is no paradox. 


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current