HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: I HATE MY DODGE
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:02:02 GMT

In article <UedDsxO00WBLI3o5wo@andrew.cmu.edu> Janviere S Thuman <jt3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>At 12,000 miles (while still under warranty) my brakes began to pulse
>violently. I realize that normal wear and tear on a car happens, but at
>12,000 miles, no brakes should go bad! I didn't complain. I had the
>rotors turned and pads replaced etc, but began to experience the EXACT
>same thing in less than 5,000 miles. I am not an erratic driver. I live
>on the Eastern Shore of Maryland where it is FLAT and rural. To this
>day, the car is still in almost perfect condition (garage kept, cleaned,
>maintained, etc) (And I have a Jeep that I drive when the weather is
>bad) 

Again another disk-brake problem.
As I have said before, disk brakes are for the birds!

> I will never ever never ever buy another Chrysler. If not for the
>quality of their products, for the inability of the company to help me.
>. . a consumer. (I'm young too! I plan to buy many cars in the future!)

I drive a 27 year old Dodge (1965).  
I wouldn't trade it in for any 'modern' car because of it's trouble-free
operation, or ease of fixing, or low cost of repairs.
There once was a time when automakers and dealerships didn't rely on
super-expensive 'check-ups', or didn't rely on expensive parts that
failed just past the warrantee, or fell outside the warrantee.

As for your brake problem, warped rotors are part of the design of
disk brakes; no-one builds a trouble-free disk brake (they will all
need resurfacing, and even if they don't your friendly neighborhood
midas or whomever will resurface them anyways, making them needlessly
thinner and even more prone to warping).

Say hello to 'modern' technology, and modern revenue generating methods...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Polish VW Joke
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:11:27 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <BtuwJx.IpA.2@cs.cmu.edu>, michal+@cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.231329.2437299@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>A man was sentenced to 4 years in Poland because he was caught
>>smuggling an engine in the rear trunk of his VW Bug.
>>
>>jle
> 
> 
> Obviously, this joke is funny only to the ignorant Americans, who never heard
> of any other cars with the engine in the rear. If you care to know,
> the most popular car in Poland (Polish made Fiat 126) has an engine in the
> rear. Also some models of Chech Skodas, Yugoslav Zastavas 750 and Soviet
> Zaporozhets all had engines in the rear.
> 
> Do you know why Polish jokes are so short?
> 
> So that American's brain cells won't overload!
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Michal

Awe come on I thought it was funny and I'm Polish.  :-)

-Rob LOSZEWSKI
From: dlou@ECE.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Alfa vs. the world (was Re: HONDA CIVIC BASHING C
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:08:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <BOWERS.92Sep1103255@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>BMWs are the lowest of the low scum sucking yuppie mobiles on the face
>of the planet!  :-)
>
>[in the intrest of maintaining the balance of power in the long
>standing feud between Alfa Romeo (the best!) and BMW (the worst! :-)].

Strange, I thought Alfa's traditional competitor was Porsche...


Anyone remember the year, make, race and driver where Alfa defeated
Porsche's (or was it Mercedes') latest whiz bang highly engineered F1
with their previous year's car?


--
Dennis Lou             || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dlou@ucsd.edu          || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou   |+====================================================
dlou@ucsd.BITNET       |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
From: c23dew@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (David White)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:44:55 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Aug20.112503.13275@tid.es> dls@tid.es writes:
>I am sorry to post these questions, but I am overseas and have no other
>access to this information.
>
>  1)  My EXPIRED Connecticut license was stolen from me here in Madrid.
>      How do I go about getting a new one?  Is it a problem that the
>      license has expired?
>
>  2)  Can someone please send me the street address for the Department
>      of Motor Vehicles in New Haven, CT (State Street, I think).
>
>Again, sorry if this is an inappropriate post, but I'm in a jam.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>-- 
>Douglas Ellis goya!tid!dls@uunet.uu.net
>Telefonica Investigacion Y Desarrollo
>Madrid, Spain

Douglas,

Would it not be easier to go thru the American Embassy or Consulate Office
to assist you?


-- 
David E. White				Domain:	c23dew@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Advanced Project Engineer		UUCP:	deaes!c23dew 
Delco Electronics Corporation		
GM Hughes Electronics		        Tel: ATT 317-451-0663  GM 8-322-0663	
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rmc1862@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Rodger M. Cliff)
Subject: Re: Trans. problem on 91 Lincoln TC
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: 28 Aug 1992 18:58 EST  

In article <5969@transfer.stratus.com>, cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com writes...
>In article <1992Aug27.162854.25897@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>  
>kent@lightnin.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kent Richardson) writes:
>>   [deleted description of '91 Lincoln trans coming out of PARK]
> 
>    [deleted description of history of Ford's having similar problems]

Ford actually had to do safety recall of their vans in mid 1980's for this 
problem.  My guess is that Ford will not be too receptive to your problem (see
previous poster in this group with long litigation pending against Ford).

Good Luck
________________________________________________________________________________
Rodger Cliff                         |  
Analex Corporation                   |            My opinions
at NASA Lewis Research Center        |     are not those of Analex or NASA
Cleveland, OH                        |          and definitely not
                                     |             vice-versa!
(216) 433-8826                       |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: tafi3@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Ian Deeley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: BMW Highway Patrol Car
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:33:59 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

From article <25605@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, by jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW):
>>the BMW M5.  It has a 5.7 Liter hand built engine 
> 
> Any Bimmerphiles know what goes in the M5?  I thought it was a
> hotrod version of the 3.5-l straight 6 found in the 535i. I had
> the impression that even their V12 is only offered in a 5-liter
> size, though McLaren seems to have found an extra liter rattling
> around in the same basic design.

OK, you asked for it! BMW M5. Based on the 535i shell each M5 is hand
built at BMW's motorsport factory at the rate of 2000 a year. The engine
is BMW's "ultimate" six-pot, 24-valve, 3535 cc, twin-cam derived from
the mid-engined M1 Procar of the late 70's, but now fitted with a clever
variable induction device.

	Specification:-  (BMW figures)
Price (uk pounds) 	45,750.
Engine (cc) 		3535.
Power (bhp/rpm)		315/6900.
Torque (lb ft/rpm)	265/4700.
Weight (lb)		3680.
Max speed (mph)		155.
0-60 mph (sec)		6.1.
1/4 mile (sec)		14.7.
MPG (urban)		18.6.

	So there you go, where all this BS about 5.7 litre V12s come
from I cant imagine. BMW's own V12 is 4998 cc & produces 300 bhp @ 5200
rpm. The engine BMW designed for Mclaren to use in their road car is
about 6 litres maybe thats where the confusion comes from. & how this
"officer" can say that driving an M5 is not much different from his
mustang! what sort of people do you have as traffic cops?


Ian Deeley
School of Engineering
University of Sussex
Falmer, England.
From: shantanu@poseidon.oakhill.uucp (Shantanu Ganguly)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: HONDA CIVIC BASHING C
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:22:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: poseidon.SHANTANU.92Sep3132220
Organization: SPS CAD, Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas.

In article <9602.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim)  writes:
Path: oakhill!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!nuchat!xcluud!cutting!erich.lim
   From: erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) 
   Newsgroups: rec.autos
   Date: 1 Sep 92 20:12:00 GMT
   Distribution: world
   Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
   Reply-To: erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) 
   Lines: 20

   -> **** Who told you that top of the line Accord is $20,000? ****
   ->
   -> 92 Accord EX 4 dr. 5 spd. can be bought at $17,000 including TAX,
   -> LICENCE, mat, rear mud guard, other misc. processing fees.  I mean
   -> the DRIVE OUT price. ( California sales tax is 8.25 % !! )
   -> 92 Accord LX 4 dr. 5 spd. can be bought below $14,900 including the
   -> same thing above ---> I bought it at that price.  You can get a
   -> better deal.
   -> Automatic trans costs you 630 more, 2 dr costs you 160 less.  It's a
   -> little more expensive than usual American cars, but IT'S NOT
   -> EXPENSIVE considering its quality, refinement, etc.

      The ACCORD $20,000 is for a 4-dr EX sedan with auto, wing, mudflaps,
   sunroof visor, and all that crap BEFORE you get to the bargaining table.
    Yeah, you can get an Accord cheaper than that cause they aren't selling
   to well now and there are too many of them being sold.  In fact, Honda's
   American plant has ceased production of all Accord's for the next 6
   months.
					    Erich Lim

Erich, aren't you contradicting yourself here? Like starting out
by saying Hondas cost too much and then saying that you can get them
cheaper than that?

Here are three data points for you (all 4 dr sedans, price w/o tax & ttl)
a) 92 Accord LX with air and auto, bought in Austin for 14.5 
b) 92 Accord EX with air and auto, bought in LA for 16.5
c) 92 Civic Ex with stick and air, bought in DC for 13.5. In fact,
   the person who bought it priced a Saturn SL2 and the Civic EX with
   identical options and the Civic came out cheaper.

IMHO, anyone would be nuts to buy an Accord Ex for 20k....
--

Shantanu Ganguly
Somerset (Motorola) - Power PC Project

phone : (512) 795-7146                  Motorola Inc, Mail Drop OE 513
fax   : (512) 795-7511                  6501 William Cannon Drive W.
                                        Austin TX 78735-8598
email : shantanu%ibmoto.com@oakhill.sps.mot.com
From: toddwall@rock.concert.net (Todd R Wall -- Catholic Diocese of Raleigh -- Computer Services)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: My Beretta's Heater doesn't work
Keywords: BERETTA,HEATER
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:53:52 GMT
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX


	I heater doesn't work anymore on my '89 Beretta.  Whenever I have the
A/C on and I turn the knob all the way to HOT, it remains just as cold as when
I began.  The same thing happens when I have it on VENT.  

	I've checked the wires going into the knob and they are all connected.

	Can anyone please give me some advise on how I can track this problem
down??  

	Thanks..



-- 
o o ______           _     _____  _  _ o o  "But the fruit of the Spirit is
' '   /       /   / ' )   /      // // ' '   love, joy, peace, patience,
     / ______/ __/   / / / __.  // //        kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
   _/ (_) (_/_(_/_  (_(_/ (_/|_</_</         gentleness and self-control."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dtn@po.CWRU.Edu (Donald T. Noda)
Subject: question about shifter kit
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 03:42:52 GMT


	I've heard people talk about putting in shifter kits in
thier car as a result of performance work.  What exactly is this?
What does it improve?

Don
-- 
           __    _______       _        |
      ----/  \  /__  __/  /\  / /------ |216-754-1981
    -----/ /\ \   / /    / /\/ /-----   |dtn@cwns4.ins.cwru.edu
 ------/_____/  /_/    /_/  \/----      |   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: front disc brake question
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:43:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.161303.18578@utdallas.edu> $USER@utdallas.edu writes:
>Actually, the service shop that recommended turning the rotors probably 
>isn't too far off. It is a good idea ANY time you change brake pads to 
>either turn or REPLACE the rotors. For example, Honda and BMW have rotors 
>which are really too thin to turn. If you take too much metal off, the 
>rotors become dangerously thin. BMW also BALANCES their rotors. You can 

Which confirms my general opinion that disk brakes are for the birds
(they are more troublesome than drums, given the small (or no) performance
increase).  They are cheaper to put on at the factory, and have a lower
parts count, the aftermarket for replacement rotors must be a good profit
source (otherwise why not put more metal in the rotors?  The thicker they are,
the less likely they are to warping due to stress and heat,  but no, they'd
rather have you come into the dealership and give them work to do...)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Lexus SC300
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:20:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.191252.13802@scott.skidmore.edu> wwein@scott.skidmore.edu (warren wein) writes:
>bought one with the Touring package for $26,000.  The stereo is
>excellent, though I don't think that its 80 watts can even come close
>to Lexus' 280 watts.
>
Call me an old fart, but I just don't understand why car stereos have
almost become one of the top attractions about an automobile these days.

Every week I bring home another test vehicle, most of them being pretty
much the high-tech stuff coming out today (in reference to chassis, 
drivetrains, etc).  But what do most of the neighbors ask about?
"How's the stereo?"

bob


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mvelasco@fraser.sfu.ca (Matthew Velasco)
Subject: Re: Best type of wipers?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:27:54 GMT

PNCSPPC@CCVAX1.CC.NCSU.EDU writes:

>I've never been happy with how well my windshield wipers work.  I've tried
>several different brands (standard single blade) over the past few years,
>but that didn't seem to make much of a difference.  Since I have to get my
>car inspected soon, and I need new wiper blades, I thought I might try once
>more to solve this problem.  Do the "European-style" double wipers work any
>better than single-blade wipers?  Also, has anyone tried the new
>"triple-blade" wipers that supposedly never wear out?  Since my Usenet
>newsgroup access is variable I'd appreciate replies by e-mail.  Thanks.

Personally, double wiper blades are ugly.  It also seems like it doesn't 
make a *big* diff.  I don't know why they add European style to products.
If it's really Euro style than I guess fine Euro autos would have it... so
I would refrain from those "European-style" blades.       
Triple edged wipers wipe better than single, but not good enough, with its
price difference.  So I guess it's back to the all original single blade
wipers price-wise and originality.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: buccb@after.math.uiuc.edu (Carlos Dragonslayer Butler)
Subject: Re: McLaren F1
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:58:40 GMT

In article <24065@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)  
writes:
> >>> I won't bother going into any detail about the car...most of the auto  
rags
> >>>have already taken care of that, but let's just say that the F1 is an
> 
> Please do, for those of us who gave up their subscriptions. We want
> to know some tech details.

	For those interested -- articles I've found:
"Headliner: McLaren F1 comes of age." _Motor Trend._ September 1, 1992.
	v. 44, n. 9, p. 14.
"McLaren F1-it would appear that the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"
	axiom is about to move to an elite neighborhood." _Road & Track._
	September 1, 1992. v. 44, n. 1, p. 102.
Hutton, Ray. "Preview: McLaren F1." _Car and Driver._ August 1, 1992.
	v. 38, n. 2, p. 41.

--
   		     Carlos Dragonslayer Butler
buccb@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu buccb@after.math.uiuc.edu buccb@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
        University of Illinois 	     (217) 373-4781 Pager
     "People often condescend what they fail to comprehend...
     ...ignorance makes life easier. Learn to tolerate. Peace."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: lui@rigel.uucp (26061-lui)
Subject: Toyota Camry/Mazda 626 info need
Reply-To: lui@rigel.UUCP (26061-lui,alex)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 18:01:26 GMT

I am interested in buying either the Camry or the 626.  Could someone
give brief reviews of these two cars, i.e. good and bad points of each.
Also, what are their price ranges.  I am interested in getting the V6
model with sunroof and ABS.  This will be my first new car purchase, so
any help and suggestions will greatly be appreciated.

Thanks,

-Alex
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: SHO Engine for Probe GT - Why Not?
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:11:26 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Sep2.174847.9936@mprgate.mpr.ca>, jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca (J.C. 
Jiang) writes:
> All of my friends agree 
> that the free-revving SHO engine is perfect for the Probe. I feel that
> a Probe SHO should have no trouble beating a 5.0 Mustang in 0-60. Is this
> realistic? Or am I just day dreaming? 

I wonder how much a Probe weighs.  A SHO engine might be kinda interesting
in a Probe, depending on the weight.  A Taurus SHO weighs 3400 lbs
empty i think, and I'm sure the Probe weighs less than that.  I'm
also certain that a 5.0 litre V-8 out of a Mustang probably
doesn't weigh any more than a 3.0 litre SHO engine, would
the V-8 therefore be a better choice?  More HP and more Torque.

What a thought, an Yamaha in a Probe.  It should be called the
Probe SVO.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: 6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: JEEP (un)lock
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:13:47 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.


Philip,
I was told the same thing by the Jeep dealer.  They said they are
the only ones that sell the extra 'gizmos'.  It's a good idea to
get a spare.  I thought they were too much at the time and decided
not to get one.  After about a year of use, mine broke.  It started
with a small crack in the center of the area you push to lock/unlock
the doors, then the plastic piece broke off, then the little metal
thing that makes the connection inside broke.  Now it's useless &
I don't have a spare... so, I have to manually un-lock the doors.
One of these days I'll order a new one...

Deb ... ps... let me know if you find a cheaper source.
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: THE DOOR HORROR
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:07:01 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Aug31.095500.1@dac.mdcbbs.com> asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com writes:
>    So there I am just cruising down to drop off a video at the store.
>    Park my car(waaay far away so no stpid jerk will bang door into my
>    wife's wedding present-BMW 325i convertible).  As I walk out of the
>    store I see this moronic woman park next to my wife's car and kick 
>    her door open with her foot!! Taking off about a half inch square 
>    of paint from the wheel well.  She of course doesn't even give a damn
>    and refused to acknowledge the fact that she had done anything at all,
>    after I had just seen it.  Needles to say I was a little incensed but
>    felt that if I said anything I would lose it and physically DAHMER
>    her and her husband.  

Funny that you mentioned it; I parked my 92 Saturn SL2 right next to a
BMW 325i convertible (black color, way neat) thinking that the fact that
the bimmer is twice the cost of my SL2 he'd respect it and not bump my
doors/car.

Well, the Jerk (and his lovely wife Jerkette) came out of the store
the same time with us, but they were lugging some real big item
and had one of these big 3 by 5 feet loading carts, heading for the
bimmer. We were next to ours when they just let the cart roll onto
the side of the Saturn. I knew I was dealing with morons when I 
asked the proverbial question ("Can't you keep the <expletive> cart
away from the <expletive> car?") and only got back  yuppie scum
puppy eyes. 

Since the Saturn is plastic on the sides, no damage to the car or 
paint was done. 

Moral Conclusion: if you park next to an expensive car thinking they'll
respect your car, you're wrong. 

Spiros



-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: rhorwell@crab.tc-suns (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: US Audi and Procon Ten safety features ?
Date: 31 Aug 92 10:33:05 GMT
Reply-To: rhorwell@crab.tc-suns
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article 16361@engr.washington.edu, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.190029.24661@csus.edu> aalis@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Al Bundy) writes:
>>Just curious if the new Audi in the US has the Procon Ten safety ...
>> ** stuff deleted **
>Procon Ten is considered to be such a good thing that Volvo considered
>paying Audi royalties to use it in their cars.  I don't know why it
>never made it, one could only speculate.  It is also interesting to
>note that Honda (or is it Lexus?) is using explosive charges for seat
>belt tensioners.  James Bond would have been proud.  :-)
>
>
>eliot
SAABs also come with the same style (explosive charges) seat belt tensioners now.

Roland
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: New MBs
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:38:49 GMT

Horace Dediu writes:
"The 500E is a specialty item, hand-built by Porsche under M-B supervision.  The
motor is from Porsche (hmmm, it may be the same as the 928S plant)."

The 500E is (except for the transmission, a/c compressor, ABS and some other
bits) all Mercedes Benz.  Think of it as a production version of the old
AMG "Hammer".  The engine (including subframe) and running gear are lifted
out of the 500SL. MBZ are not set up for limited production work so they
farmed out the final product engineering and *SOME* assemble to a local
engineering firm: Porsche.

I drove one Saturday. The car is a rocket! It is a serious threat to the
owner's license to drive. I think it was Car & Driver that said it was like
a "drug". UNDERSTATEMENT! The market is also soft. Early on, some dealers
were asking premiums and some speculators were trying to get $100K for
early 500Es. The sticker is about $84K. After the driver, the salesperson
gave me his card with the price of $73,078.73.

"The badges can be removed with a heat gun anyway, according to the factory
technician I talked to."

Check it out first. The early type 126 and all 107s and 116 have metal 
badges attached with studs. *SOME* 190s have metal badges with studs while
others use plastic badges and double-sided tape. All 124 use the plastic
badge with tape. A heat gun, hair dryer, 3M adhesive solvent, or your
finger nail will get the badge off without damage.
-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949                        Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.audio