HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Larry Kramer Interview in Advocate
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:33:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Nov23.233352.2659
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <n-415rb@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth14.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> jmckee@world.std.com (Jim McKee) writes:
> 
>>Just letting folks know that part 1 (of 2) of a great interview
>>with Larry Kramer appears in the current issue of The Advocate.
>>Larry, who could never be accused of being tactful, takes on
>>almost everyone in this one. Worth the read.
> 
> Most definitely! But I can still understand the sentiment of Tom Stoddard who
> said that ``Our movement needs more than just anger. Larry has never gotten 
> beyond that point.'' and from what is quoted in The Advocate one would really
> have to agree. He says some possibly valid things, but in SUCH a disagreeable
> way that it just rubs people the wrong way and they no longer listen to him.
> 
> It's great to make suggestions and helpful hints but if you do it in such a
> way that no-one will ever listen to you, what's the point?

I haven't yet read the aforementioned interview, but I have read quite
a bit of Kramer's other writings.  Based on that, here's my $.02.  I
think the point which Stoddard makes and Ron echoes is valid up to a
point.  Many times the message *can* get lost in the way it is
communicated.  However, many people say the exact same thing about
QN and ACT UP.  My personal view is that it is incorrect to say that
*no one* listens to Kramer (or QN or ACT UP).  I know that I certainly
pay attention to their messages.  Oftentimes I've found that their
urgency can move someone like me out of complacency and get me to
*do something*.  I can take their messages and perhaps make them more
palatable to the masses.  I might not even have gotten the messages
if I had not paid attention to Kramer or ACT UP or QN.  So my view
is that it is important to listen, and, as they say in 12-step meetings,
"Take what you like and leave the rest."  Take the facts and the
urgency; leave behind the things that alienate potential allies.

All my personal opinions.  Hoping not to be flamed to death!

> 
> -- 
> RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
> uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
> "I think every straight guy should have another man's tongue in his mouth 
> atleast once." -Madonna, quoted in NEWSWEEK, quoting from The ADVOCATE.


-Tina M. Wood
 maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
 maire@drycas.bitnet
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48792 ca.politics:9796
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint""
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 18:43:16 PDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
> In article <BxGuxo.92v@news.orst.edu>, hoyerr@ucs.orst.edu (Richard Hoyer) writes:
> > In article <1992Nov9.125827.15108@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
> > >	Irrelavent.  In the view of a great number of people, homosexuals
> > >	are doing damage just as severe to children they are exposed
> > >	to by promoting homosexuality.  Homosexuals say no, of course,
> > >	but serial killers often don't feel that what they're doing is
> > >	wrong (the same might be said for fanatic xtians as well...).
> > 
> > What in the world do you mean by "promoting homosexuality?"  Homosexuality is
> > not something you do.  It is simply a sexual orientation.  You cannot promote
> > sexual orientation.  That just doesn't make any sense!
> 
> Then why is it that I have no problem finding recent scholarly
> works on the subject of child sexual abuse that recognize that
> adult homosexuality is sometimes a response to child sexual
> abuse?

Sometimes it is.  Are you implying that there may be a more general
connection between adult victims of child abuse, and all adult
homosexuals, or are you just making vague insinuations?

I'm sure there are some straight adults who would be gay, were it not
for abuse suffered while they were a child.

> Isn't it amazing that we as a society are concerned about 
> exposure to violence imprinting values and attitudes on children,
> but somehow, the same thing doesn't happen with sexuality?

Child sexual abuse IS violence, not sexuality.  Sexuality is not violence.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor <> Long Beach, California
[] mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us <or> mikebat@qdeck.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: The het woman in gay male fiction
Summary: Have you met this woman? 
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:40:27 CST

I just read _O Beautiful_, a new novel by Jesse Green.  I suspected
from the acknowledgements page, which included a note of
gratitude to Meg Wolitzer (among others), that the book would be
of a certain genre -- someday someone will do a thesis on the
incestuous relationships among young New York City authors with
gay characters based solely on the circle-jerk of their acknowlegements pages.

I was not surprised, therefore, to find the book burdened with
the gay-male-angst, NY City-life, problematic-family-relationship
plot elements I have come to associate with David Leavitt.  Fortunately,
however, Mr. Green (who graduated Yale a year or so before Mr. Leavitt),
seems to have taken a tip or two from Joe Ryan and remembered
that even the most self-questioning, tragically-alientated ivy-educated
gay man still manages to have a bit of clever banter now and then, and
that however trenchant one's observations about the shallowness of
life may be, a bit of narrative thrust can do wonders for a novel.
So actually I liked the book, and read it quickly, and found a resonance
or two with my own experiences. 

But that's not what I wanted to post about.

What concerns me is the strange trend in gay male fiction
that every young gay angst-ridden man has a fabulous straight
female best friend who takes care of him and fixes him up and
cooks soup when he's sick and understands fashion almost as much
as he does.  Sometimes this woman is overweight, and she always
knows a lot about art.  This woman was in the Nathan Aldyne
detective stories, the Joe Ryan farces, she was there full force
in the recent movie "The Living End."  I think this is the
woman who roomed with the main character in Stephen Macauley's
_The Object of My Affection_.  And she appears again
in _O Beautiful_, picking up the pieces of the main character's
life when he goes too far.  She also appeared in some of David
Leavitt's short stores; I don't recall whether she was in any
of his novels.

[I don't think Michael Tolliver's Mary Ann was this woman,
but I may be wrong.]

Who *is* this woman?  Do any of us know her?  Is there something
missing in my life because I don't have a straight woman
best friend who runs an art gallery and wears drop-dead clothes
when she accompanies me to glittering cocktail parties?

Well, actually, I do have a straight female best friend
who sometimes plays the emotionally supportive role that
the women in these novels do -- but she is a suburban
homemaker and she and her husband are intimate friends
with my parents, which somehow doesn't fit in with the
character that keeps appearing in gay fiction.  And besides,
the emotional support is more of a mutual thing than it
appears to be with the fictional characters.  So I don't
know.

What gives?  Am I the only one who seems concerned
about this recurring character, who crosses genres
and generations and publishing houses?

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Surly French waiters
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:17:17 GMT
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front

In article <thaaang.722493322@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>
>(And vee veeihl nout eh-vahn *touk* euh-baht zee oufeel kneet
>stchchrahpt taupes, hohohoh?)

Now Geou Awai orrr Ah weel Taunt yeou a Second Tim-uh!
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: FAMOUS GAYS from GAYNET (fwd)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:16:19 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Nov18.064707.6927@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <69720@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:

>>[About Arnold Schwarzenegger]
>>Now I saw that photo in Spy, but this is the first I've
>>heard about Honcho.  When did this happen?

>mid-70s, maybe? I'm not sure. I think the photos in Spy were actually
>from his Honcho spread. At any rate I saw the Honcho issue with my own
>two eyes in a queer bookstore in Houston (Lobo). I'm just sorry that I
>didn't buy it - it was only $10 or so.

>(I'm slightly worried that it wasn't Honcho, but some other similar
>gay porn magazine. It's been awhile since I saw it.)

I thought the photo spread appeared in After Dark.  I remember seeing
several issues of the magazine when I was in high school in the 70's,
and it had better spreads (IMHO) than Honcho or Blueboy.

But I'm in the same boat as you, Nelson -- I'm not positive which
magazine, I just remember seeing it ...

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Distribution: na,uk
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:29:44 GMT

In article rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> >  Well, far be it for me to keep up with these teeny-bopper thangs,
> >but I seem to recall hearing that NKOTB are from Boston -- and by
> >extention Marky Mark too. Oh yes, I've had a few tight Bostonians; 
> >it just that damn accent they need to lose. :-)
> 
> 	Eeeek![tm]
> 
> 	I spent years getting rid of mine and
> after being here for 18 months it's back...
> 
> 	Peetzer and beah anyone?

  Heh. My cultivated and pure Southern California accent is constantly
being assaulted by various mongrel accents which I am occasionally
subjected to on trips. I have a *horrible* propensity for picking up
dialects in record time. To this day, a one week visit to Montreal
resulted in the incurable affliction of "eh?". When I was down in
Na'lins for Decus a few people noticed upon my return various tell-
tale signs of that dread dialect -- it seems that my slowing in speech
and drawl were more to due with the massive imbibing which took place
on that trip (right Greg?) and thankfully there's no trace now.
Boston, thankfully, though I've been back recruiting a number of
times has largely not affected me -- but I do sort of find their
accents cute in an odd way which is usually a bad sign. Also, I 
know that were I to go to Ireland, I'd immediately turn into a faire
leprechaun and they'd have to shoot me upon return.

> BBC
> (the middle B is for Bayah, donchaknow)

  Try Advils (aardvarks), they work much bettah.

-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: NGLTF Staff Re-organisation
Date: 16 Nov 92 07:56:45 GMT
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Urvashi Vaid steps down as Executive Director of the NGLTF effective Dec 1.
Peri Jude Radecic will be Acting Director until April 15, when Torie
Osborne will become Executive Director.

Staff assignments look like this:

Military/Civil Rights/Ballot Initatives: TANYA DOMI
Anti-Vioence/Privacy: MARTIN HIRAGA
Domestic Partners/Family: TO BE HIRED
Media: Robert Bray
Public Information: Robin Kane
Federal Lobbyist/Acting Director: Peri Jude Radecic
National Lobby Days/March on Washington: MARLA STEVENS
Creating Change 93: IVY YOUNG

---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
According to the Village Voice, the Bush Family is immediately responsible for
losses to the U.S. taxpayer amounting to 2.2 BILLION DOLLARS.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:48:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.195915.136@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov16.185553.16402@PacBell.COM>
> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
> 
> >[George Stephanopoulos is ] also 31-years-old and single.
> 
> My gaydar hasn't been calibrated recently, but the level
> reads pretty high on Mr. Stephanopouplos.  

  Me too, and this was before I even saw him. Probably 
wishful thinking though...

> On the other
> hand, it didn't go blip on Pete Williams, so go figure.

  Republican Stealth Shielding, no doubt. Stealth, not just
for bombers any more...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:30:29 GMT

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>Surly you jest!  Like all of us, Steve, he is a pussycat in person.  

I hope nobody sees that as a mitigating circumstance when judging
net-behaviour.

							FJ!!
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:49:03 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Kenton Campbell writes:

>Mr. Stephanopoulos is absolutely scrumptious!  I *want* him!  If he's not
>family, I'll eat Bar Bush.
                  ^^^
Didn't you mean to make that possessive?
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:43:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov18.064326.6486
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov17.174635.9737@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.013714.8532@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>  Wouldn't Nelson make a striking punker? I mean, teased up red
>hair and a bit of leather and steel would be pretty intimidating.

That's me, the nelly punker. And you did mean "a bit of vinyl and
steel", didn't you? Would you love me if I had a three inch piece of
polished bone through my nose? How about a safety pin through my scrotum?

I don't think there's a goop strong enough to sustain a two foot high
spikey mohawk. Anyway, such a coiffure would make it tough to get
through doorways.

Anyone know how to make a beehive? That'd look hot.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: wdechent@usenet.umr.edu (William L. Dechent)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:38:11 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri -- Rolla

Does the Coors Brewing Company have a hiring policy that prohibits discrim-
ination on the basis of creed, ethnicity, gender and sexuality?

Thanks for the post of the free cities.  I'm going to one for business
this spring and I feel better knowing the local people oppose bigotry. 
--
wdechent@clciris.chem.umr.edu   


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:42:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1e726dINNcnn@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
wrote:

> "Am I boring you, darling?"

You, of all people, should know that Dietrich couldn't manage much 
more than:

  "Am I bowing you, dawing?"

As per Lilly Tomlins fabu spoof of "Babawa Wawa intewviewing Mawena
Deetweek.  How ah you, Mawena?  ---Oh, I'm fine, thank you, Babawa"

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals raising children
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:56:44 GMT

gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
[about "that's so gay" ...]

>My point is that yes, people say these things often, and it desensatizes our
>kids and dehumanizes us. However, it has been my experience that polite but
>firm statements that this is not acceptable behavior or speech can have a
>positive effect on those around us.

one more point: when i do this, i don't mention that i am gay
(although it usually comes up).  i like to focus the attention on the
comment, not on me.  i find that it's way too easy for people to
trivialize and slough off what i am saying if they know right away
that i am gay (a la "those gay people are so sensitive" or "you just
think that because you are gay").

--mike
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:04:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.46001
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov17.004045.5031@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <thaaang.721949805@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>John, thinking Nelson would be smashing as a redhead
>
>You know, I was looking for an excuse to talk about hair, and here it is.
>
>What do I think about me being a redhead? Not on your *life*. No way,
>no how. Don't even think about it. I have resigned myself to let a
>couple of inches be trimmed off the bottom, get rid of three years of
>split ends. I just have to find someone to do it for me.

Now, before all of you redheads get your blood pressure up, let me
personally assure you that Nelson has nothing against redheads.  In
fact, I think he sort of likes the color.

He really didn't mention a thing about red beards, however.

Nelson, dear, did I ever show you the pictures of me in my nice
red beard?  There is a chance that someone may talk me into growing
it back, so you may get to see it first hand.

I know, I'm a tease, but Nelson really is quite fun that way.  And
he knows it too.

I can't wait to see Nelson with facial hair!  I didn't think he
was old enough.

<running for cover - NOW!>

--mark
---
Mark Morrissey     markm@cse.ogi.edu     Hate is NOT a Family Value.
"You picked a bad day.  Pat Buchanan's here, and he's passing out a
petition to get the name of the species changed to hetero-sapien..."
 - Phil, the bar owner on "Murphy Brown"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rowan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rowan Hammond)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gays in the Australian Military
Date: 23 Nov 1992 12:09:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Keywords: newspaper report

I wondered how long it would take for someone to write!

It's great news, but there are still a lot of closed minded homophobes
out there, if the radio reports are anything to go by...

Fingers crossed as I, for one, hope things keep getting better and
fairer,

Regards

Rowan


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:46:12 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov20.024725.16938@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>>Space Aliens?  
>
>	No they're pretty hairless...

Oh yea,  Tell that to a Wookie or Klingon!

-- 
+-----------------------------------------+
|  max@queernet.org  |   Max J. Rochlin   |
+-----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: NGLTF Creating Change--My Experience
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:58:20 GMT

Larry Bliss <BLISS@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>It was great to read Robert's experiences at the Creating Change
>conference in Los Angeles this past weekend.  I flew in from Portland,
>Maine, and throughly enjoyed leaving 30 degrees for 80 degrees.  I had
>a great time!  (Of course, I grew up in L.A., so I had an easier time than
>Robert had negotiating the roads and freeways.)
Well! I'm sorry I didn't run into you at the conference! I didn't even know
you were going. [Harrumph! After all,I DID post to soc.motss and Gaynet].

>I, too, got an electric shock from Harry Hay.  The afternoon I arrived,
>walking around the lobby of the LAX Hilton, I saw this guy wandering
>alone.  He was wearing jeans and a bright shirt, about a dozen necklaces,
>a bright blue/silver cloth wrapped around his head swami-style.  It HAD
>to be him!  I walked up and said, "Harry?"  He turned and introduced
>himself, we walked to some chairs, and sat and talked for about 15 minutes
>He kissed me when he left, which was easily a highlight of the conference!
How funny! I, too, ran into Harry Hay. I saw his name tag and freaked out 
but I didn't go up and talk to him because I was busy doing something else and
I thought I would run into him again [and this time with my recording
equipment: I was set to interview Torie Osbirne and Urvashi Vaid that day].

>I spent much of my time at fundraising workshops: grantwriting, direct
>mail, meet-the-funders, etc. In general, I found them to be pretty basic,
>but many of the folks clearly learned a lot.
There really should be a workshop on how to pick workshops at the conference!
I decided to enjoy myself, for the most part and go to informational things.
I figured next year I could go to the fundraising or other skills-building
workshops.

>I ramble.  Thats enough for now. I'd be interested in hearing from others
>who attended Creating Change.

Oh, alriiight. :-)

[i'll try and post it soon]

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 1993!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"I will never apologize for the United States of America, ever. I don't care
what the facts are." -- George Herbert Walker Bush, President of the USA.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.humor