From: vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: Re: DS9 was very BAD
Date: 10 Jan 1993 14:08:01 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu

In <93010.115206MRM122@psuvm.psu.edu> MRM122@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Many people are saying that the "non-linear time" thing was a foolish idea-
>that it conflicted with physics as we know it.  They say things like "WHy don't
> the writers talk to some physics students!"

Some have said exactly this, others criticized it another way...

>To that, I have this to say: We
>as of this point in our history are FAR from understanding all that there is to
>understand.  Saying such a thing is "impossible" is silly, since as far as we
>know, breaking the light barrier is impossible, making all these shows
>completely pointless, true?

According to my physics (years old) accelerating up to and past light
speed is impossible since apparent mass increases and your fuel needs would
grow unbelievably the close to light speed you wanted to get. Fred Pohl's
solution was to "go inertialess", make the mass dissapear. A massless
vehicle would have no such barriers.  Now physics says nothing about
shortcuts around *past* light speed as far as I can recall.
But you've done your intended task, dragged me from from one impossibility
to another. Because SF assumes some odd things means we must be expected
to swallow that 2+2=5? Maybe those senators will one day succeed and
legislate pi into being 3.0.

>  And, may I point out that you all have as
>difficult of a time understanding a non-linear perspective as the aliens did
>in understanding a linear perspective.  Who are you to say how "time" must be
>perceived by all creatures, even non-corporeal creatures living in the
>completely alternate environment of a wormhole.  You can't comprehend it- thus
>you declare it impossible.  Much like the people who wanted to burn Gallileo
>for saying the earth goes around the sun, not the other way around.  Very
>interesting...

You just haven't been paying attention to the *REAL* objection here.

Clear indications are given that the hypothetical godlings *DO* understand
linear time. Things such as the fact that they are conversing and learning
from our linear commander in a linear fashion. Non-linear beings with
access to the future present an impossible paradox. In at least one sense
it reduces the universe to a Newtonian clockwork-universe, not the
chaotic thing it actually is. They also discuss destroying him. How can
this be reconciled with the later confusion they evidence about
an end to linear existence? It's like one guy wrote up the framework
and a few opening lines, and some other hacks came along and shoddily
tacked on some other stuff. There's no internal consistency. Maybe it
was rewritten through three different sets of monkeys 30 times or something.

An idea can be as outlandish as you want in my book, as long as it
doesn't conflict with *itself*. I object not so much to non-linear
beings (no matter how silly that is), but to how the idea is developed.
I visualize a production meeting like in that movie with Tim Robbins, I
think it was called The Player?

Asst-Producer:	Okay, how about we use some god-like beings that have to
		talk down to our stupid level.
Producer:	Sounds good, throw in some confusing gobbly-gook to make
		it really apparent these aliens ain't like us. Can we
		get Tom Selleck to do one of the aliens?
Exec-Asst:	He's unavailable, let's just re-use the same actors from
		earlier in the episode. It'll be cheaper, and we can
		explain it as them communicating through people from his
		memories.
Head Writer:	Gentleman, we've used godlike aliens one too many times
		don't you think?
Producer:	You're FIRED! Get my drop-out nephew on the line, let's
		make him the new head writer. A universe just can't have
		too many godlike aliens you nincompoop.

But really, other than the wormhole sequence I liked it okay. ST seems
to have an annoying tendency to want to *FULLY* introduce you to all the
main characters in the first episode. Some of those explanations about
say for instance Odo's past seemed really wedged in there.
At least they weren't as bad or as blatant about it as in TNG's
Encounter at Farpoint.
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