HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Australia beat N.T.
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:15:33 GMT

As mentioned before ,regarding Australia's poor performance against NT..
What exactly is the altitude at Ellis Park.?
I somehow keep hearing that the altitude is causing havoc,yet it appears
that we are roughly in the same altitude.

Another question(NO FLAMES).
Did any of you SA guys actually go to Ellis Park to watch the AB's.If so
did the crowd actually sing immediately after the announcement of a minute's
silence,or was it something else.?

One more.....
I didn't notice a lot of black faces at the game,is their a reason .
Like lack of money,interest or is it political .?

Please,I don't want a flame war ,I would like to hear from 'the other side'
apart from our media.
Australia 28 SA 21......GO the AUSSIES..........

Email me if you wish to save b'width.
allanc
From: prijke@elaine.ee.und.ac.za (PAUL RIJKENBERG : PGRADS)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Those songs & anthems.
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:05:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: elaine.prijke.8
Distribution: world
Organization: Electronic Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, South Africa

In article <1992Aug18.121704.382@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:


>I can imagine an excuse that would be given - that it would be an insult to the
>NZ team not to play our anthem, and that then to be fair, they should play
>both. But, if the non-playing agreement had been made in advance, (which doesn't
>seem to be in dispute), then the AB management would have known and agreed to it;
>I'm sure there would have been no objection by our players or administraters. We
>would have had no problem with such an agreement; but as it is now we *also* are
>slightly tarred by this brush of bad faith. Is that what the SARFU intended
>towards its guests ?

>Several SA netters have commented that one may object to the ANC on grounds
>other than racism. Very true; we should not forget this point, and thanks are
>due to those who made the point, (very politely too, when you consider how they
>feel so strongly about it). Nonetheless, it must be clear to the even most naive
>of SA citizens that this was *NOT* the right time to express such objections, in
>song, or any other way. Disgraceful. The silence was due to the dead, NOT the ANC.

You should remember that not only ANC supporters have died in the violence 
in our country. Far from it, in fact, and most South Africans feel 
strongly for the many innocent people who have been killed. Therefore, 
although the timing of these expressed objections may have been unfortunate 
most supporters were just showing their frustration with the ANC  (many 
whites in the country agree that the anthem may not be suitable and will 
probably need to be changed) and their continual interferance and harrasment 
of the game of rugby (merely because the majority of supporters and players 
are white) and their childish attitude of :

"If you don't have the minute of silence and want to sing your anthem 
and wave your flags around (an issue which has been overlooked), we wont let 
you play your game. So waaah....But at soccer matches we can play our 
own anthems, make as much noise as we like during the minute of silence and 
wave any flags we please. Not even to mention throw things at the ref if we 
don't like his call (ask Crystal Palace). Freedom of action and expression 
is very important as long you act the way we want you to and express what we 
want you to."

What happened can be seen as a peaceful and non-disruptive form of "mass 
action" which, the ANC agrees, is a good way of showing how one feels 
about certain issues.

>Someone has predicted that the next world cup looks increasingly unlikely to be
>played in SA. I must say it does seem so.  A pity in many ways.  But, if this
>kind of thing is likely to occur again, perhaps it's best all round to shift it.

Unfortunately you may be right and I hope the ANC does not do 
their best to make this the case.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell)
Subject: Get Real
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 22:13:14 GMT

What *exactly* is the problem with you lot in SA? The AB's thumped all of your
domestic teams and beat you in style in the test. Has it not sunk in yet?
The AB's had an unbeaten (that's U-N-B-E-A-T-E-N) run and didn't look
like losing. Seems like after nearly every game we have some whinger (supporter
or Bok team captain) moaning about how they couldn't believe that they lost.

If SA happen to beat Australia (and I doubt they will) - big deal. It proves
nothing. In fact I hope Aussie thump all the SA teams in a manner similar
to the AB's. Perhaps 2 unbeaten runs by downunder teams may convince you lot
that Northern Hemisphere rugby is more your level.

G-E-T R-E-A-L.

David B
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (neil covey)
Subject: ANC angry at anthems being played at Test
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:36:41 GMT

A small article in my hometown paper today claims that the ANC may push
for a worldwide ban on South Africa again after the South African
national anthem (Die Stem--The Voice) was played before the Boks played
the All Blacks.  Evidently, it had been agreed that no anthems would be
played, and then, at the last minute, the anthems of both countries were
played.  The Voice is seen as being a very offensive song to many black
South Africans, the decision to play it after a promise not to is seen
as a breach of trust.  

This, anyway, is how the wire story in my paper shows it.

I may have to put on my flame-resistant suit for my next paragraph, but
here goes.

I love rugby and wish that the best in the world would play each other
more often.  South Africa is among the best in the world.  But I also
despise apartheid, and despite recent gains in South Africa which I
acknowledge, I also see worrisome tactics being used by the De Klerk
government, which could easily be seen as foot-dragging.  Therefore, I
would support the ANC (as if they gave a rat's ass about my support) if
they sought a reinstitution of South Africa's ban from world sport.  I
know many "innocent" athletes would suffer, but their suffering is and
would be nothing compared to the suffering of the vast majority of South
Africans (I was going to write South African citizens, but of course,
the fact that millions are not citizens is precisely the point).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se (El Burro Grande)
Subject: Poll:More votes please
Reply-To: etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:17:25 GMT
From: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au (Brendan Mahony)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Date: 17 Aug 92 00:41:24 GMT
Reply-To: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au


I only saw the last 20 minutes or so, and all I can say is I wish the
AllBlack defence had been as poor against Australia. I don't know what
the Boks are complaining about, it looked at that stage as if MacNeil
had declared "be kind to a Springbok" day. Looked like the Boks were
playing with 31 men for the last 20 minutes and they still lost.

--
When soldiers form lines or hollow squares, you call it reason.
When wild geese in flight take the form of a letter V, you say instinct.
When the homogeneous atoms of a mineral arrange themselves into shapes
mathematically perfect you have nothing to say. You have not even invented a name to conceal your heroic unreason."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: NZ vs SA prediction
From: nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:56:37 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

> My impression (bias alert) was that the All Blacks just squeaked in -
> the Boks missed a lot of chances early in the game, but were really
> piling on the pressure at the end.  There were plenty of stupid
> mistakes and handling errors by the Boks, but it looks like a pretty
> sound team for the future - the geriatric Danie Gerber scoring two of
> South Africa's tries in fine style.
I'd agree that you are biast, personnally I feel the SA's were let back
in the game & it looked pretty much under AB control after the SA
try was quickly returned. HOWEVER I must say that if SA had had
the time togehter the AB's have then I would have been surprised to
see an AB win, those bok back's are damn good & talk of isolation
doing harm to SA rugby is a twin edged sword with our team seemingly
unable to counter some very fast movements by the SA's from one side
of the field to the other.
> 
> Interviewed after the match, Sean Fitzpatrick said he was glad they
> played this weekend, and not the next - implying the Wallabies could get
> skinned ;-)
I would tend to agree with that, I will be surprised to see an Aussie
win (Sorry you guy's in OZ)
> 
> All in all a nice bit of rugby by both sides, with the All Blacks
> scoring when it counted. Pity it wasn't a longer tour, but there's
> always next year, and the year after...
To true, though it was a pity that the crowd couldn't stay quiet for
the 1 minutes silence b4 the game.

All in all on great game with both teams deserving merit for a very
expansive style & clean hard game.
Nigel
From: pjs1@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: A little less reality
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:14:11 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Aug20.210816.9579@leland.Stanford.EDU>, davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell) writes:
> 
> OK Nick, fair's fair. I guess SA did perform pretty well under the 
> circumstances. As for my backing the Aussies - as a Kiwi this is a very 
> tough call to make. Perhaps I was temporarily insane? Who knows? Anyway I 
> still feel that the AB's were pretty unlucky in Australia and the current
> Aussie team, while World Champs and a very good side,  have yet to 
> dominate the opposition like their predecessors - the 1987 AB World Champs.
> 
> In short, I have more faith in the ability of the AB's than in the ability of
> the Aussies to beat SA. Anyway we'll see what happens,
> 
> cheers
> David B.

	But is that due to the fact that the 1987 AB are better than the
current Aussies, or due to the fact that the 1992 AB are much better than the
87 Wallabies?

Pete

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: sjackman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Simon D. Jackman)
Subject: Re: NSWRL & NSWRU Results
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:52:17 GMT

Could a kind soul in Australia please post the QRU premiership table?
That would be fantastic...

Cheers -- Simon Jackman (ex-sandboy, Brother's Union, Crosby Park,
Brisbane, many moons ago....
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:24:40 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa

cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty) writes:

>In article <pieter.714069288@ford>, pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen) writes:
>> O, and then there was the intimidation of Botha by FItzpatrick...

>Bloody hell here's another of these "your guys are thugs, our guys are angels"
>merchants. 
You take the words right out of my fingers. 

>Explain how it is that Wahl Bartmann was put on a final warning by
>the referee and Botha was told to get his players to cut out the dirt. Oh - of
>course I forgot - biased referee, sheeesh.
Well, actually they were caught. That is the reason. We need better
coaching here :-)




Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Subject: Australia vs Northern Transvaal
Keywords: Wallabies, South Africa, Test
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 07:39:54 GMT


A lacklustre Australian team won their second match in South Africa
against Northern Transvaal Blue Bulls 24-17 at the Loftus Versfeld
Stadium yesterday. The penalty count was incredible, 24-17 in favour
of the Blue Bulls. Despite the high penalty count, the Wallabies
do not have any good excuse for their poor performance, they struggled
to find rythm in the game and often were forced to kick the ball out
to make ground.

The referee was whistle happy, perhaps trying to make himself the 
center of attention in this historic match against the Wallabies.
The game was interrupted every ten seconds (well, almost) by either
the ref's whistle or line-outs. It wasn't a pretty game to watch,
there was little continuity in the game. Perhaps this worked against
the Wallabies. But the Blue Bulls' defence was pretty good, the Walla-
bies had to struggle to get through.
 
Both sides had trouble with goal kicking. The Wallabies were slightly
better in this department, the Blue Bulls missed eight shots at goal.

And Campese .... what can I say, that guy is a genius, a freak, a 
magician. He produced all two tries for the Wallabies. The last one
was a solo effort with a chip kick over a Blue Bull player and a quick
chase that followed. Michael Lynagh was injured at half time and had to
be replaced, the goal kicking duty was relegated to Tim Kelaher.

The score was 9-6 at half time with Australia leading. All points 
came from goal kicking. The Wallabies produced by the first try
on the right wing. The Blue Bulls replied with a try on the left wing
that came from nowhere after three missed tackles by Australian 
players. Campese scored another try shortly after. 

In the post match interview, Wallabies captain, Nick Farr-Jones said 
" If those guys are left out of the Test team, the Springboks must
be pretty formidable". When asked which side would win in the AB vs
Boks test match, he said that he now thought that Boks had a very 
good chance to win. The Blue Bulls played without their 4 Test
players and the Wallabies played fielded almost all of their main 
test players.

Australia 24 (D Campese 2 tries, T Kelaher 1 goal 2 pens,
              M Lynagh 2 pens)
Northern Transvaal 17 (Hans Styrdom 1 try, Luke Smith 3 pens, 
                       Gebrand Grobler pen)
Referee: Ian Rogers
Crowd: about 35 000




 


--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________| 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: All Blacks 27, Springboks 24
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: rec
Date: 15 Aug 92 14:42:50 GMT

  New Zealand defeated South Africa by 27 to 24 in their final
match at Ellis Park to complete an unbeaten tour of S.A.

  Scoring was as follows:

  Fox penalty  				3 - 0
  Z. Brooke try, converted by Fox      10 - 0
  
  Halftime:

  N. Botha penalty		       10 - 3
  J. Kirwan try, converted by Fox      17 - 3
  Fox penalty			       20 - 3
  D. Gerber try, converted by Botha    20 - 10
  J. Timu try, converted by Fox        27 - 10
  F. Muller try, converted by Botha    27 - 17
  Gerber try, converted by Botha       27 - 24

  The first 20 minutes were very tight, with neither side gaining much
advantage.  The try to Brooke came from a quick tap penalty on his own
a couple of metres out from the line after a concerted attack.
  The South Africans went very close to scoring just before halftime, 
in one case being over the line but held up by the All Blacks.

  In the second half, Botha kicked a penalty to make it 10 - 3, 
then Kirwan latched onto a pass after Frank Bunce had made a great
break to go in close to the posts to make it 17-3.  Fox kicked another
penalty to make it 20-3.
  D. Gerber then scored a try, converted by Botha to make it 20-10.
The All Blacks came back almost immediately to score a try to John
Timu right in the corner (which Fox converted) to make it 27-10 with
about 15 minutes to go.  It looked fairly safe for the All Blacks at
this point, although the South Africans had blown some other chances,
making a forward pass with the line open, and on another occasion the
young winger dropping the ball after being in the clear.
  South Africa came back though to score another try to Muller, 
and then 4 minutes into injury time (shades of 1981 third test
at Eden Park), Gerber scored his second try which Botha
converted to make it 27-24.  Sandy McNeill blew for full-time
immediately after Botha's conversion, giving the All Blacks
their victory.

  The impression I got (from the NZ commentators) was that the score
was probably a fair reflection of the game.  NZ seemed to take it easy
after being up 27-10 with only a few minutes to go, and the South
Africans came back to make the score more respectable which they
deserved to make up for some silly mistakes with try-scoring
opportunities earlier in the game.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: palmer@uvmark.uucp (Filaman)
Subject: Re: strings
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:54:11 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1245@esl.ESL.COM> gene@krell.esl.com (Gene Huang) writes:
>Can you explain what "gauge" is?  I thought that the higher the gauge, the
>thicker the string.  Here, it sounds like just the opposite.  Also, what's
>the normal string gauge most players use?

The higher the gauge the *thinner* the string. Most players use
either 16 or 17 gauge string.
-- 
 _____   _   _       __    _    _    __    _    _     Palmer Chappelle
| ____) | | | |     /  \  |  \/  |  /  \  |  \ | |    VMark Software, Inc.
| __)   | | | |__  | || | | |\/| | | || | | |\\| |    uvmark%palmer@merk.com
|_|     |_| |____) |_||_| |_|  |_| |_||_| |_| \ _|    USRSA Certified Stringer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: gatchall@rtsg.mot.com (Scott W. Gatchall)
Subject: Re: USA Tennis Players and the Olympic Village
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:21:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.194447.12864@wuecl.wustl.edu> ac1@cec2.wustl.edu (Anuj Chandra) writes:
>
>US proathletes(which includes tennis players) are rich and spoiled and 
>the Olympic spirit means very little to them. Consequently
>proatheletes should be banned from the Olympics, as was the case 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sometime ago.
>
>ANUJ CHANDRA

_All_ pro atheletes or just U.S.? ... because the Europeans (and the
rest of the world for that matter) have been sending pros to the Olympics
since time began.  For once the Americans do it (amidst alot of international
attention ... I think that's where the real jealousy lies), and immediately
something should be done???  I think after this Olympics, it's obvious where
the real talent is ... and with the dissolvement of the Unified Team, future
U.S. domination is eminent (with or without U.S. pro atheletes).



-- 
=========================================================
Scott W. Gatchall        |   scottg%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com |
Motorola, Inc.           |                              |
=========================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: yogi@coombs.anu.edu.au (Michael Hanslip)
Subject: New Racquet For Steffi?
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:00:43 GMT

Seems that Dunlop have gotten tired of having their number one player
using a racquet almost no one else wants to buy. So...they have come
up with a new one for her. The Dunlop Revelation Pro 90-apparently
a 20mm wide 90 square inch, suspended handle (a la the Revelations 95 &
115) for top players. I've got mine on order since they won't hit the markets
in Australia for another 3-4 weeks. :)
I am buying one sight unseen since a friend of mine sells Dunlops and tried
one during the dealer day they had a month ago. He thought it was a lot 
like his Head Prestige Pro 600, and since those are discontinued he might
switch too. Except that Head is supposed to have a new Pro racquet out in
about 3 months with the IDS (?) suspended handle that is in their present
Widebodies like Discovery. For people looking for new racquets (like me)
at this time of the year, it might be worth waiting.

Michael Hanslip
yogi@coombs.anu.edu.au
From: rao@moose.cccs.umn.edu (Rao V. Akella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: The right gripsize
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:54:00 GMT
Reply-To: rao@moose.cccs.umn.edu
Organization: Colon Cancer Control Study, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
X-Lunar-Date: 0 days, 18 hrs, 22 mins until the last quarter of the moon (U.T.)

In article <1992Aug20.183857.2670@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
> Is there an easy way to figure out what one's ideal gripsize is (by
> measuring the hand directly, say)?  Just holding the rackets in the
> store doesn't seem to help.

When I went to a racquet specialist's shop to buy my first decent racquet, the
tennis pro there pulled out a ruler and measured the distance from the tip of
my ring finger to the second (lower) horizontal crease on my palm.  Granted,
this is only an approximate measure, but he had no hesitation telling me what
grip size I should use.

Probably the best method is to use this measurement as a rough starting point,
and then check out grips in the adjacent range to determine what feels the most
comfortable to you.  If in doubt between two grip sizes, go for the bigger grip
(smaller grips may cause the racquet to twist in your grasp).

-- Rao Akella    <rao@moose.cccs.umn.edu, rao%moose@umnacvx.bitnet>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Pros in the Olympics (Re: USA Tennis Players and the Olympic Village)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:23:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.235543.15189@cs.ucla.edu> page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes:

>I disagree.  Regardless of what you or I think SHOULD happen, it is
>clear that what IS happening is that the charade of amaturism is now
>almost completely gone, not to return, in the Olympics (except for boxing).
>Before the fall of the Eastern block, they had incentive to exclude western
>pros.  Now, the Olympics is about making money just like everything else in
>sports; and the bottom line is a whole lot more people will pay a whole lot
>more to see the Dream Team, or Steffi Graf, than they will pay to see college
>players.

Supposedly, the "best" athletes in the world compete at the Olympics.
It is just very hard to be among the best in one's sport unless one
is (effectively) a pro: find the time and equipment for training, etc.
I see nothing wrong with having the Dream Team, Steffi Graf, Jim Courier
and of course Boris Becker (can't omit him :-) ) play at the Olympics.

I also find it hard to agree that Carl Lewis, Janet Evans, Dan O'Brian ...
are real amateurs. Or we'll need Olympic records such as 100 meter dash
among people who receive <$100K in endorsement per year.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     HR 1A-304, AT&T Bell Labs, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ, 07748 USA
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: best shots in tennis
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:35:22 GMT
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

>   Best forehand : Courier

I think Lendl, Agassi, Krickstein, Arias, and Gomez have better forehands than
Courier.