From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Guidebooks once again Re: Review of ATC from BD
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:06:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: boulder.TIMSC.92Apr16100618
	<1992Apr16.055440.26427@nas.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ



** "Eugene" == Eugene N. Miya <eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov> writes:

Eugene> In article <TIMSC.92Apr15091350@boulder.cfsat.Honeywell.COM>
Eugene> timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com writes:

   Tim> Why is it that guidebooks seem to be getting so lame these days?

Eugene> Sorry, vague posting.  What do you mean?

Around the Phoenix area there seems to be a proliferation of "I've got
a computer, I'll pull some of the info out of several old guides, add
some new route info from 'basecamp' (discontinued new route section in
Climbing Magazine) put it all together, maybe I'll credit the other
sources, maybe not, then print it out and sell it (try to sell it).

There is nothing wrong with this approach (I guess) if it is well-done.
(Look at John McMullen's guide to the "Pit" (a sport crag near Flagstaff AZ)
He did it two-sided on a legal size piece of paper which folds up like
a map.  The sketches (although lacking a reference to scale) were done
on a Mac and include the route name, rating, sketch of the line with
"X's" marking the bolts.  Just enough to get you around and at $2 well
worth it. 

The guides entitled "A Cheap way to Die and A Cheap way to
Fly" by Tim Toula need some improvement.  It is kinda tough to find
your way around at the "Overlook" and "Paradise Forks" using these
guides alone.  The topos are pretty bad, and really could be helped
with just a few pictures.

I guess the new Red Rocks guide kinda struck me this way when I first
saw it.  

My first experiences with guidebooks were "Southeren Exposure" then the
follow on.. "Oklahoma on the Rocks".  These guides were okay, I
probably didn't know what I was missing though. 

"Phoenix Rock" is a well done guidebook.  Includes brief route info
(enough to let you find your own way) and pictures of the different
areas when possible.  Topos are included when pictures aren't
practical and at the intro to each area, an aerial sketch is provided.
(generated by sketching the areas in overlaying a USGS topo map)
BTW The new edition will probably be all topos due to the prohibitive cost
of including pictures (too bad)


Eugene> The first green printing of Roper (Yosemite) had a nice feature:
Eugene> the pages were bound using screws: unscrew the pages, yank what you want,
Eugene> then put them back.

Yeah the first J-Tree guide had this "feature"   The first guide to
Central Ariz. also was bound in this manner.  I like to xerox a few
pages from the area I'm planning on visiting so I don't have to take
the whole guide.  I've got most of my AZ. guidebooks split and the
spine and three-hole punched.  Makes for easy xeroxing and keeping
everything together, but it's a drag to try to stuff it in a pack.

I wish more of the new guides had this "feature"!

Eugene> I'm just unclear by what you mean.

That's what I meant... sorry I can't be more vague.. Just ramblings of
a climber frustrated by a 40 hour work week!






--
Tim Schneider                       Honeywell Air Transport Systems Division
Ph: (602) 436-3078                   PO Box 21111 MS M29D1 Phoenix, AZ 85036
Email: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc

Honeywell Spokesman... NOT!