From: jad@ckuxb.att.com (John A Dinardo)
Subject: Federal Government Massacres Idaho Family
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Keywords: federal government massacres Idaho family
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:29:46 GMT

Article 15812 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: The Idaho Siege and Bo Gritz
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 19:39:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

A friend of mine who is in the NRA and reads the ca-firearms-request@corp.portal.com sent me this, in support of his contention that I should join...
It seemed relevant to recent discussions and may be some of the better inof
available at them time it was originally circulated:

>From ca-firearms-request@corp.portal.com Wed Sep  2 15:56:12 1992
To: ca-firearms@corp.portal.com
Subject: The Siege in northern Idaho
Content-Length: 4852
X-Lines: 81

-----------------------Begin Clayton Cramer's Post-------------------------
A coworker here called his friends in northern Idaho.  The locally
reported facts of this case are nearly 180 degrees from the national news
coverage.  Weaver was NOT a member of Aryan Nations, and was so hated by
them (and vice versa) that he refused to be an FBI undercover agent,
since it would be tantamount to suicide.  He was indicted shortly thereafter,
apparently on the word of a political rival of Weaver's in county elections.

The first death resulted from a raid on Weaver's place, in which a marshall
shot one of their dogs, was not properly identified, and the 14 year old son
shot this unidentified intruder who had killed one of their dogs.

Just in case you suspect my coworker is part of the "conspiracy" -- he's
Hispanic, and unlikely to be ever accepted in Aryan Nations.

The police state isn't here quite yet, but the media propaganda machine
appears to have abandoned all pretenses of accuracy.
---------------------End Post----------------------------------------------

This isn't quite what I've heard. Our talk-radio station in Salt Lake City
(KTKK - AM630) has followed this closely, and while conflicting stories
abounded, some consistency did come through ---
On Friday Aug 21 1992, six federal marshalls snooping on or around Weaver's
property [without a warrant, BTW] were discovered by the family dogs. The
marshalls shot the dogs. Sam Weaver, 14, attracted to the scene by the
commotion, began to run AWAY, and was promptly shot in the BACK and killed.
Kevin Harris, 24, family friend, returned fire, killing one of the marshalls.
Marshalls retreated.
Saturday Aug 22 1992. Another gunfight ensued in which a sniper shot Vicky
Weaver, Randy's wife, IN THE HEAD, and also wounding Weaver and Harris,
with Harris' wounds very serious.
Thurs Aug 27 1992. Bo Gritz, Populist Party candidate for president, and
a retired Phoenix police officer named Jack McLamb arrived on the scene to
attempt to intermediate a surrender and quell the bloodshed.
Fri Aug 28 1992. Bo succeeds in getting permission from the Feds to visit
the cabin [2x4's with 1/2 in. plywood walls, no electr. no phone, no
running water, very primitive]. At this time it was discovered that Vicky
had been killed, and the extent of the others' injuries. 
Mon Aug 31 1992. Bo was successful in negotiating the surrender, but was
snubbed, ignored, or otherwise ridiculed by the media.
Harris is currently in a Spokane hospital in serious condition. 
Wed Sep 2 1992. Today's Salt Lake Tribune contained a lengthy article,
including Wyoming lawyer Gerry Spence (of Silkwood fame) accepting the
case of defending Weaver and Harris. Weaver was quoted ---
"Mr Spence will see that my rights are protected. If I did not believe
that, I would still be up there. I have never believed I could get a fair
trial in a government court." Weaver then accused the feds of murdering
his family, saying he "believed his wife was killed in retaliation for
the death of Deputy Marshall William Degan" slain on Aug 21. "Those
officers are all trained and skilled in shooting an identifiable target.
They are excellent marksmen. They shot her in the head. This was murder,
a horrid, pre-meditated murder. I expect the system to do what it can to
cover this atrocity, but they know, and I know what I say is true."

Comments follow ---
While not a member of Aryan Nations, Weaver espouses association in what's
called the Christian Identity movement, which is more separationist than
white supremacist in orientation, in essence, "Just leave us alone!"

Nevertheless, can a person be dehumanized as were blacks and Jews in 
recent history as an excuse for lynching and gassing them? I feel that
regardless of one's belief, they should enjoy the protection of our
federal officials, rather than a major military attack on them complete
with 4 apache helicopters, a tank, armoured personnel carriers, and
Humvees, not to mention upwards of 500 armed troops. Could this be a
taste of things to come "soon to a neighborhood near you"?

Also, Weaver's neighbours have vanished, and as of yet have not been
accounted for. Others had dogs poisoned or shot, and they were not
allowed to feed or tend their livestock. 

Lots of unanswered questions yet...
Well, here it is as close to the horse's mouth as any of us will probably
ever get:

What's happening with Randy Weaver in Naples, Idaho, from Randy Weaver:

CHUCK SANDELIN -- preacher, who, with Bo Gritz, went into the house and
talked with Randy.  Randy Weaver used to be in SF with Bo Gritz and Randy
and Chuck both apparently know a lot of the people that are Bo Griz's
supporters.

The scenario:  Army Tanks and APC's surround the house, 300 troops, 100 FBI,
local law enforcement, BATF, National Guard, and US Army.
House is high in the mountains on a rock ridge.
"I said Randy isn't going to kill anybody. And I went in there and so did Bo
and we talked to him."  Chuck

Diary of Randy Weaver
Given to Chuck Sandelin by Randy Weaver and read to me today by phone:


RANDY WEAVER: (PARENTHETICALS ARE MY REMARKS - LT)

     11:30 August 21, 1992, the dogs starting barking.  Randy (Weaver),
Kevin (Harris) and Sam (Weaver, Randy's son, age 13) ran out to see what the
dogs were barking about.  Randy was carrying a 12 .ga shotgun, Kevin
(Harris) was carrying a 30.06 bolt action, Sam was carrying a .223 mini 14

     Old yeller, Striker, was at the pump house, barking into the woods.
Randy, Kevin and Sam went down to investigate.  Heard something running
west, so Sam and Kevin followed Striker, Randy dropped down on the logging
road heading west.  "I didn't have any idea what we were chasing and we were
hoping it was a deer.  When I reached the first fork in the logging road, a
very well camaflaged person yelled, "Freeze, Randy."  I yelled, "*** you"
and immediately retreated 80-100 feet towards home.  I realized immediately
that we had run smack in into a NWO (New World Order) ambush. I stopped to
see if I was being followed.  About that time, I heard a gunshot and Striker
yelped.  Then I heard two more shots and Striker stopped yelping.

     I started yelling for Sam and Kevin to return home and that the Feds
had shot striker.  I also fired my shotgun once into the air to draw
attention to myself and praying that would help.  I replaced the empty shell
with a new one, shoving it past the extractor, jamming my shotgun.  I drew
my 9 mm handgun and fired 3 or 4 rounds up into the air and I was yelling
again for Sam to return home.  Sam said, "I'm coming, Dad."  I then walked
backwards up the hill toward home, yelling to Sam and Kevin to come home.

     All the while I heard many shots ringing out from the direction of the
ambush.  By the time I reached home, I still hadn't seen Sam or Kevin coming
home and they didn't respond anymore when I called to them.  A few minutes
later, Kevin came walking home.  We asked him if he had seen Sam and Kevin
said, "Yes, Sam's dead."


KEVIN HARRIS:

     "Me and Sam followed Striker through the woods until we came out onto
the road that forks off the one that Rand was on, and runs north.  We (Kevin
and Sam) headed South towards the same road that Randy was on.  Striker
reached the corner first, then Sam, and then me.  A camouflaged person was
in the road and he shot striker.  Sam yelled, "You shot striker, you SOB!"
There was more than one then and they pointed guns at Sam and shots went
off.  Sam opened fire and I took cover behind a stump as Sam headed up the
road towards home.  It appeared Sam had been wounded in the right arm.  Also
Sam yelled, "Oh shit, Kevin come on" and headed home.  The men were still
shooting at Sam, so I shot one of the SOB's.  After they killed Sam, one of
the Feds jumped out of the woods, and for the first time, declared he was a
federal Marshall.  The Feds then grabbed their wounded and left.  I then
headed home up the road and spotted Sam's body lying in the road, without a
doubt, shot in the back.  I checked for a pulse and didn't find one and I
went home.

RANDY WEAVER:

     "When Kevin got home and told us Sam was dead, Kevin and I, and Vickie,
walked back down the road to get Sam's body.  We brought him home and laid
him in the guest shed.  We cleaned his body and wrapped him in a sheet.  We
also brought Sam's rifle home and that is the weapon I am using now.  We
left No weapon with Sam's body as was reported on the local news.  From that
point on, we have never left the knoll and we have prepared to defend
ourselves here.

     On Aug. 22, 1992, Saturday, the next day, sometime late afternoon, we
heard our two remaining dogs start barking.  Kevin, Sarah (oldest daughter),
and I left the house to check the north perimeter.  We didn't see anything,
so I was going into the guest house where Sam was, to see him one last time.
 As I reached up to unlatch the door, I was shot from the rear and hit in
the upper right arm.  The bullet exited through my armpit.  Yahweh/Yashua
(God) has almost totally healed it on the day of this writing.  When
everyone heard the shot, Kevin and Sarah came around behind me and we headed
for the house, in this order, Randy, Sarah, Kevin.  Vickie came outside the
door and yelled, "What happened?"  I yelled, "I'm hit."  Vickie was holding
the door open for us to get in the house, Elisheva (the 10 months old baby)
in her arms.  A shot rang out and Vickie fell to the floor.  She had been
shot in the head and she died instantly.  She fell in such a way that
Elisheva wasn't harmed, praise Yahweh.  At the same time, Kevin fell through
the door into the kitchen.  As near as we can tell, Kevin was struck with
the same bullet that hit Vickie, leaving a very large wound on his left
upper arm and penetrating his chest.  There are also several small fragment
wounds on his arm.  Needless to say, we understand snipers are everywhere.
They killed Sam, wounded Randy, killed Vickie, and wounded Kevin.

     The feds totally covered up the murder of Gordon Kahl and Gene Mathews
(blown up on Whitby Island), they are especially against right white
racialists (like Butler in Idaho) and/or Tax protestors and if they think we
are going to trust them (we didn't trust them before they shot us), they're
crazy. Yahweh is starting to heal Kevin, we constantly pray that he'll be
okay. Since Vickie, Kevin and I have been shot, we haven't left the house
and do not plan to unless we are starved out, then we will most certainly
take the offensive.  It appears as though the feds are attempting to draw
fire from the house as an excuse to finish us all off.
     (Sarah 15, Rachel 12, and Elisheva is 10 months).

     If they even so much as crack a windowpane on this house with a robot
telephone, gas grenades, etc., etc., it's all over with.  Our heartfelt
thanks goes out to all our sympathizers. Our faith is in our creater
Yahweh/Joshua/The Messiah.  We do not fear the one world beast government.
They can only take our lives.  Only Yahweh can destroy our souls.

     Samual Hanson Weaver and Vickie Jean Weaver are martyrs for Yahshua and
the white race.  Even if the rest of us die, we win.  Hallelujah, keep the
faith to all our families and brethren, we love you, hallelujah.

                                                                Randy Weaver
                                        Kevin Harris
                                        Sarah Weaver
                                        Rachel and written in, Elisheva
Per Chuck Sandlin:

Jackie Brown - friend who was inside the house to remove Vickie's body
yesterday.

Chuck Sandlin:
Re:   Telephone Robot:  Paul Harvey said on the radio yesterday  "There's a
telephone right outside, Randy, reach out and get it and we will communicate
with you."  When Bo got in the house, Randy said "Come here a minute.  See
that robot with that telephone in its hand?  It's set up so that as soon as
you take the receiver, there is a shotgun wired to it."  Up the other arm of
the robot, there is a short trigger around the elbow.  Those that have seen
it, Jackie Brown, Bo Gritz, and Randy, say it is a shotgun.  It's used for
terrorists.

One of the BATF keeping the public back had a sub-50 machine gun flicking
the trigger, pointing it at Bo and a guy jumped between Bo and the man and
told him he was breaking the law, and the agent just laughed.

The crowd is screaming and these agents are cock-proud and smart, laughing
and smiling about it.  Word through the crowd is that a professional riot
arouser will be coming to the camp, brought in by the feds.  It's as if they
want an excuse to spray the crowd.

They always burn the evidence.  The feds took up a 20 gal drum of gas and a
satchel pak to detonate it in a helicopter.  Two channel 2 news guys stopped
this by identifying that they were watching and they were arrested.  They
were planning to blow up the house with everyone in it, just like Whitby
Island.

August 25, 1992, 10:36, Iowa Bureau of Disaster services:  Governor declared
"emergency situation and disaster" in Boundary County and Bonner Counties
and martial law is in effect. Cecil D. Andrus, governor.  Declaration of
martial law cites to Iowa laws and says:  46-601, authorization of National
Guard and Organized Militia in service of the state.  46-1008, activate the
disaster response and recovery of the state, local, and intergovernment
disaster emergency plans thats acceptable to the affected areas; (b)
authorize the deployment and use of any forces to which the plan or plans
apply; (c) authorize the use or the distribution of any supplies, equipment,
and materials and facilities assembled, stockpiled, or arranged to be made
available for use during disaster emergencies.  The state of extreme
emergency and disaster emergency hereby proclaimed and declared shall
continue for a period of 30 days unless sooner terminated or extend in 30
day increments.


---------------------
Kevin Harris is in Sacred Heart Hospital in Spokane, having surrendered
yesterday.

Chuck related a lot of other details.

The US Marshall's service by phone to me yesterday and press releases they
faxed said that Randy had been arrested in January 1991 on charges of
selling a sawed off shotgun to an undercover agent.

Chuck Sandelin said that was a set up, that it was related to Randy's
refusal to be a an informant on the Aryan Brotherhood and also to some hard
feelings that went back to his SF days when he turned in a superior for
keeping 1/2 the drugs from drug busts they were making.  Another source said
that Randy was a well known militant, anti-establishment type that had
probably done a lot of things and just never been caught -- like Al Capone,
who was finally caught by the IRS, but never really caught murdering anyone.

Anyway, he was arrested in January 1991 and didn't even have to post bond.
He went home and didn't show up for his arraignment.  He may or may not have
publicly claimed he would never come out until the false charges were
dropped.

Regardless, for a bench warrant on a charge that wasn't even enough for him
to have to post bond on, the US Marshall service sent a team of six special
operations officers from Boston to Idaho to do "surveillance" on Randy for
18 months.

Chuck says they were practicing military maneuvers in a two mile perimeter
around Randy's house.  He also says there are Hungarian troops practicing
maneuvers in the area and underground detention centers in the area.

Chuck's phone was very obviously tapped.  So is ours.  This isn't funny.

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
 * Origin: MotherBoard BBS/PR_Net Indianapolis IN (1:231/110)




Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive