HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:07:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.044258.26314@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
>Now, what is the minhag in this case?  My son (age 16) is at an 
>Orthodox service where most of the community observes the "no
>tallit until marriage" minhag.  Our minhag, as per the Conservative
>movement, is that by Bar Mitzvah, all men wear a tallit.  So-
>
>    1.	Does he follow the minhag of his own (the Conservative
>	movement) community?
>
>    2.	Does he follow the minhag of my dad's community (Poland ->
>	no tallit until marriage)?
>
>    3.	Does he follow the minhag of my father-in-law's community
>	(and I don't know exactly what that is, since his parents
>	are from two difference countries- Russia and Austria)?
>
>(And for the purpose of this discussion, I will not take as a
>personal insult to over 20% of the Jewish community, any discussion
>of point (1) that is based on whether a Conservative minhag is
>even a factor in this case.)

I have a naive question, and by that I mean it really is a question, not a 
debating point.  Is it true that there exists a "Conservative movement
minhag" on the subject of when to wear a tallit?

According to Rabbi Isaac Klein:

"There are variations in custom regarding the age at which one starts to
wear a talit.  In some places all male worshippers, regardless of age,
wear a Talit (O.H. 17:3); some start at the age of thirteen (ibid. in
B.H. 4); and some start only after marriage (ibid. in B.H. 4, quoting the
Maharil).  In most American synagogues the first practice has been adopted."

Guide to Jewish Religious Practice, page 4.

My personal observation is inconsistant with the final sentence of this
passage.  In any case, Rabbi Klein explicates no particular Conservative
position on the question.  Is Stan correct when he says one exists?


-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Jewish friends - help!
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:10:00 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.92Aug10061740@solarium.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>On Sun, 9 Aug 1992 17:12:40 GMT, goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) said:
>
>> If one is a non-Jew, and has Orthodox friends over from time
>> to time, what can legitimately be offered them to eat or drink,
>> and still leave them at ease?  
>
>I find the simplest solution is to present the guest with *unopened* packages
>of O-U products (Stella D'Oro cookies are good, or canned Juice), and unopened
>packages of plastic utensils and paper plates, and let them break the seal.
>
>Daniel

Personally, I think Stella D'Oro cookies are barfo (too dry and formal, no
fun).  Try something like Duncan Hines but remember that its dairy.  Also
Tropicana OJ is good (actually VERY good -- not veryfine, that's from 
concentrate).


-- 
Dan Shimoff           
Phone: (212) 602-6798  
Address: shdan@tudor.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: irwin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kent Irwin)
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 19:30:55 GMT

	The Scriptures have plenty of examples of Jewish murderers.
Even David falls into that category (Uriah the Hittite), although he
used a rather unconventional murder weapon.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dweinste@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (David Weinstein)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:04:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.192210.15830@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
#There's a difference between forcing your groups beliefs on outsiders
#and forcing them on insiders.  I would agree if you meant
#proselytizing non-Jews, but there is nothing wrong with Jews trying to
#get other Jews to be more Jewish.  THIS is Judaism, which has never
#esposed personal freedom as a cornerstone of its religion, unlike the
#USA.

Ok, where do you start drawing the line between insiders and outsiders?
Is it alright to target Jews from Conservative or Reform or Reconstructionist
background? What about targetting College Freshmen, who are reasonably
"open" (or vulnerable) to such prosyletization (whether from Jewish or
non-Jewish sources). What about people who are halachically Jewish but
have never been exposed to Judaism? What about people who have chosen
a different religion? What about those people's children if they are
halachically Jewish?

--Dave

-- 
Dave Weinstein
Internet: dweinste@gnu.ai.mit.edu
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:49:47 GMT

In <BsxJpC.21r@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.184529.26834@uc.msc.edu> saroff@msc.edu writes:

>>This is evil.  We as Jews are supposed to pursue justice.  
>    That's right: pursue justice, not do good.

How does one pursue justice without doing it?  The command is not to
chase after it as it runs away.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter signature virus.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is not worried at all.
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Protest! Protest! Protest!
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:51:22 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <1992Aug13.151845.4761@ecl.psu.edu> l1z@ecl.psu.edu writes:
>
>about $500 a year for the student but $1778 for the student spouse and $800
>for a child. If the  international student has assistantship, the school pays


Wow.  You guys don't realize how LUCKY you are to get such CHEAP insurance!

For my family alone, it costs about $6,000 per year and that hardly covers
anything these days!


-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Headaches during major fasts (was: Smoking ...)
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:01:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.86696
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)

In article <765198d3122173t83@witsend.uucp>, dcs@witsend (D. C. Sessions) writes:
>  It could also be blood sugar.  Avoiding sweets for a few days in
>  advance seems to help; the meal before fasting should be more
>  oriented towards protein than carbs.  (I could have this wrong;
>  check competant MEDICAL, not Rabbinical, authorities.)

You'd be surprised how much rabbis know.  Chicken anatomy, who's a good
dentist, and all that.  Caffeine withdrawal is the cause of most bad fast
headaches.  I almost never touch the stuff myself, but I've heard that
you can withdraw the day before, take painkillers the day before the
fast when the headache hits, and then go into the fast without too much
difficulty.  I'll never know for sure.

Filling up on starches (potatoes, noodles, etc) are a good idea, as they
take longer to break down.  Meat, spices, and sweets should be limited.
You should have your big meal as a somewhat late lunch, and a small meal
an hour or so before the fast.

Another good idea is to just learn to tame your appetite.  Non-Lubavitchers
who daven at a Lubavitch shul on Shabbos, for example, frequently don't
get to eat until 1-ish.  (As is well known, the Lubavitcher minhag is to
stoke up on cakes and brownies early Shabbos morning, and daven 10-ish.
This only keeps them going until musaf.)  Do that year round, and YK goes
over fairly easily, hungerwise.

Other methods are to physically/psychologically prepare yourself the 9/10
days leading up to the fast.  Bland out your foods as much as possible before
TB, and fast half-days before YK, or something.  This kind of activity is
in the spirit of these days, but doing just the minimum required seems to
be the norm.

>  Then again, it could be dehydration.  I regularly get killer sinus
>  headaches when fasting (so bad that I checked into getting patch meds).
>  It turns out that there are a few simple precautions:

>  1) Get plenty of water the day before.  To make sure you can retain
>     some of it have more salt than usual, too.

I don't believe this.  Salt does not help you retain water--it forces
you to use up more water to expel the excess.  We already eat "more
salt than usual", so to speak.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: simic@pollux.ccsf.caltech.edu (Petar Simic)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history (corr.)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:31:16 GMT

	In previous posting I wrote:

"...Given the weight of the evidence, do not think that further discussion ..."

	I meant: 
"...Given the weight of the evidence, I do not think that further discussion..."

	Petar.
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ahavaas Yisrael
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:56:59 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

From: Nachman Ross
Ahavas Yisroel
 
 
  The Mitteler Rebbe quoted the Alter Rebbe: Ahavas Yisroel (Love
of another Jew) must possess one to the very core of life itself.
(Hayom Yom, Menachem Av 18)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:14251 talk.politics.mideast:18611
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re:  Muslims killed in Yeguslavia
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:05:12 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

In article <1992Aug11.122211.1273@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Aug08.150753.18802@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
>nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>
>>I admire Jews who are speaking up against these camps even though the Bosnians
>>are Moslems.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "even though."  The vast majority of Jews
>view this as a humanitarian issue, not a political or religious one.
>Should we assume that the "even though" was because had we been discussing
>Muslim reaction to Jews in camps similar concern would not have been shown
>(a la the Jerusalem Mufti and his buddy Hitler)?
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>		Note new machine name
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton


Don't "Mufti" me now by making a relationship between the Mufti and Hitler.
I said it because you consider there is a conflict between Jews and Islam
and it was a good gesture to care for the Bosnian Moslem. Don't be ridiculous,
a lot of Moslem countries faught on the side of the allies in WWII. If I was
there, I would be the first one to protest the concentration camps.
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Wiesenthal about detention camps in Bosnia
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:28:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug17.192829.14827
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


I am forwarding this from Mr. Trifunovich

From TRIFUNOVICH@bms.com Mon Aug 17 18:54:10 1992

INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE, August 12,1992

SERB CAMPS UNLIKE NAZIS', EXPERT SAYS

Vienna (Reuters)

Simon Wiesenthal, the veteran Nazi hunter, said Tuesday that he rejected 
comparisons between detention camps in Bosnia and the Nazi concentration camps 
of WW II, saying they trivialized Germany's treatment of Jews.

"To call the camps 'concentration camps' is a minimization of Nazi 
concentration camps, because not even Gulag camps could be compared with the 
Nazi camps," he said, referring to the Soviet labor camps, in an interview at 
his Jewsih Documentation Center.

Mr. Wiesenthal, who spent four and a half years in German concentration camps, 
also accused the West of blaming only the Serbs for human rights abuses in the 
former Yugoslavia.

"The first refugees were the 40,000 Serbs who fled Croatia after a 
constitutional amendment defined them as minority," he said.

He said the Serbs themselves had legitimate fears in light of the killing of 
hundreds of thousands of their people under the Croatian puppet government set 
up by pro-Nazis in World War II.


(Reprinted without permission from the International Herald Tribune)

I.D. Trifunovich


_______________________________________________________________________________
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:46:26
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Aug21.174821.29949@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:48:21 GMT

Well, as long as this issue's come up here...

In article <1992Aug21.174821.29949@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

   BSA detractors, such as Mr. Kadie (the full text and breath of his
   vehement anti-BSA postings can be found in rec.scouting) contend
   that two of BSA's positive virtues (a belief in God and proper
   moral behavior) somehow constitute some act of "discrimination"
   against atheists and homosexuals.  As a result, he and others of
   his ilk are waging a guerilla war against BSA by attempting to
   sway public opinion and going after businesses and organizations,
   like United Way, that support the national BSA and the local
   Scouting councils.

You either aren't reading Mr. Kadie's postings carefully enough or
you're deliberately ignoring his points.  United Way has a specific
policy of not giving money to organizations that discriminate on basis
of religion or sexual preference.  The Boy Scouts have a very explicit
policy of prohibiting gays and atheists, which seems (to me, and
certainly to Mr. Kadie and others) to be a very clear case of
discrimination on the basis of religion and sexual preference.

   BSA's position on this matter is very simple.  The standards of
   membership represent positive moral values, and membership is open
   to anyone willing to live according to these values. These values
   are not for sale.

That's not at issue.  What is at issue is whether the United Way should
give funds to an organization that violates its own guidelines.  If you
want United Way to change its guidelines, say so explicitly rather than
simply flaming Carl Kadie.  If you think he's interpreting their
guidelines incorrectly, say what you think he's misinterpreting.

   Religious-wise, I have never seen an organization that, although
   obviously using Christianity as its model, has a religious
   requirement for membership that manages to totally respect the
   religious rights of Jews and adherents of all other religions.

It does NOT respect the rights of people who do not adhere to any
religion, and it may not respect the rights of people who adhere to
religions that do not reference a deity.  Why are those people not
deserving of the same respect and rights as anyone else?

I would welcome an explanation (you're welcome to do it in private
email, if you like) why it's inherently better to believe in a god than
not to do so.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gordonb@mot.com (Gordon Berkley)
Subject: Hawaii for sukkot...?
Reply-To: gordonb@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Communications Israel Ltd., Tel Aviv
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:19:48 GMT
Followup-To: poster


There is a risk/chance that I may (have to) be in Hawii for business
over Sukkot.  If I go, I may be bringing my wife & kids.

Does anyone know about the kashrut situation over there?
Is there a "kosher hotel" and/or shul that may have a succah?
On which island?

(Importing a Lulav from Israel to the US is crazy enough.  But bringing
a palm frond to hawaii??  :-)>

-- 
[  Gordon D. Berkley    INTERNET: gordonb@mcil.comm.mot.com   POST: cgb001   ]
[  PHONE: +972 (3) 565-8727      FAX: +972 (3) 565-8754      (UTC-2)         ]
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: targeting Jews (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:54:33 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <GRABINER.92Aug19163059@birkhoff.harvard.edu>
grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:

-In article <1992Aug19.124103.5006@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, samuel.saal writes:

-< Because the people who care to help bring Jews back to Judaism only care
-< to bring Jews back, I'd say anyone who is halachically Jewish is probably
-< fair game.  Perusing your list, I see a strong probability that all those
-< listed would be, in fact, halachically Jewish.

-Look at this from the other side as well.  Would you consider it
-proper for Christian missionaries to target former Christians who
-converted to Judaism?  Their children?

It's a good question until you remember that the situation is not quite
analogous.  That is, Judaism does not believe/accept conversion _out_
while Christianity, essentially, understands that "all's fair."

Further, many Christians already _do_ target Jews.  Jews only target
Jews.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rig@eng.umd.edu (Ronald Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Auswich and $$$???
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 22:16:25 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <1992Aug16.192213.10125@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>In article <559@kesher.UUCP> aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) writes:
>
>#I read today in the Texas Jewish Post (a real rag of a "newspaper") that the
>#keepers of Auswich are saying that it will cost $42 million to keep the place
>#running as a museum.
>
>I read that in an Israeli paper a few months ago. It seems the place
>is falling apart, and a major reconstruction operation will be
>nedeed to preserve it. The problem is not so much with the 
>extermination installations themselves (which were dynamited by
>the SS before the liberation of the camp and are in ruins, except
>for the gas chamber of Krema I) but in the barracks and the
>places that house the belongings of the victims.
>
>#So now what?
>
>Well, the Germans promised they would fund all, or most, of the project.
>Let's hope they mean it.

It would also be nice if the people who run it would give a fuller
picture to the tourists.  I recently (actually on Tisha B'Av,
appropriately) read Dershowitz's description in "Chutzpah" of his
visit to Auschwitz, and I believe I have heard similar reports from
others.  He and his son were careful to not initially identify
themselves as American or Jewish tourists but to tag along with a tour
group of Poles I believe.  That tour emphasizes what the Nazis did to
the Poles generally, and does not mention that Jews were especially
singled out and rounded up from around Europe.  The Jewish tourists
get a special tour that includes an extra building, and Dershowitz
reports that even the exhibits there were somewhat weak in conveying
the right messages.  I believe Dershowitz also reported that the
locals and the highway signing do not make it easy to find the camp.
I don't remember the details very well; I recommend reading the
relevant section of the book if you're interested.

Ron
-- 

Ronald I. Greenberg	(Ron)		rig@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:16:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.114829.13516@discus.technion.ac.il> silvrbrg@discus.technion.ac.il (Israel Silverberg) writes:
>The question is not whether Jews should live in Israel, rather why should
>a Jew live outside of Israel. According to Rambam, living in Israel is a
>postive commandment for which there are only three exceptions: finding a
>wife, to study with an outstanding rabbi, or for short-term business needs.

And, as Rambam was not living in Israel at the time, the fourth reason?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Jewish summer camps (Was: Hebrew school)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:13:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.203157.29610@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>I'm now wondering if our synagogues are approaching the education issue
>correctly; specifically, they're trying to treat it as a "school" instead
>of as an extra-curricular activity.  After a whole day of public school,
>more structured "school", especially when motivation is absent or when
>there are "fun" activities that the children are missing, is not going
>to be received positively.

I am one to point out that I don't view Shabbat (and Judaism in
general) as restrictive, rather, I view them as positive,
"constructive" opportunities to relax, catch up on sleep, friends,
learning, food, and other things.  The important part of Stan's idea is
to remember the balance.  Judaism is not all fun and games.  A Jewish
school has the responsibility to attract, but also to teach (maybe to
the extent of 'warning').  For example, I'm not sure how to make
learning about Jewish history's darker periods into a fun event.

Given that, I suspect it will be a difficult bit of effort to convince
kids, especially from homes that, as we've discussed, don't consider
Jewish education to be the most important thing going, to believe that
Hebrew school is an extracurricular, fun, activity.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton