From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Badges of Honor
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  7 Sep 92 16:56:07 GMT

In <7w1yh2d@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:

>nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>In <vvyyfw@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:
>>>nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>>>In <1992Sep2.223616.17088@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes:
>>>>>In article <nyikos.715464590@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu 
>>>>>(Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>>>>}   ...but a fetus is not part of her body...

>>>>>Just when you think you have things figured out.  Doggone it Peter,
>>>>>where do you suppose those little buggers are?

>>>>You know the answer as well as I do. That's not the issue.

>>>[An inflammatory paragraph deleted.]

>My "inflammatory" paragraph was in response to your contention that
>the "location" of fetuses is not the issue.

>Now think about this.  When you say that the fact that a fetus is
>inside a woman is "not the issue", what are you implying?

I was implying that the fact that a fetus is inside a woman does
not make it a part of her body.  That's all.  The issue between
Galen and me was whether the fetus was a part of the woman's body,
and the fact that it is located there was not the issue.

>  I'd say
>you're implying that all pro-choicers REALLY want is the right to
>kill.

You're reading way way too much into my words.

>  Doesn't matter where or what they're killing, they just want
>to kill.

More of the same.

> (to prevent the excessive picking of nits 
>here, I'm referring to the vast majority of pro-choicers)  For
>most pro-choicers, the ONLY issue is whether a woman will be
>forced to remain pregnant against her will. 

Even if the reason for that "will" is the fact that she is carrying
what will become a "baby woman" and she wants a "baby man" instead?
Do most pro-choicers really support that choice, even at 17 or more
weeks, about the earliest that abortions for gender selection are
feasible?   Or are you referring only to pro-choicers on talk.abortion, 
who are generally more radical than the pro-choice public at large?

> If pregnancy could
>be ended without the death of the fetus then hey, happy day.

A pity 5 Supreme Court justices disagreed with you in _Colautti_...
and _Thornburgh_...   In this respect THEY were much more radical
than, say 90% of all pro-choicers in this country.  

By the way, has the Supreme Court ever reversed this part of 
Colautti and Thornburgh, the one enjoining states from prescribing the
methods of abortion that give the viable fetus the best chances
of survival?

>MY position, for one, would not change one bit.  (Although I
>DO think that if society was forced to deal with the upkeep of
>1.3 million unwanted fetuses each year, society at large would
>quickly return to current methods.)

No such thing would happen, not even if abortion became illegal
except in the "hard cases": threat to mother's life, rape, incest...
People would simply be more careful about using contraception.

>Would YOU be opposed to abortion if abortions (almost) always
>resulted in live fetuses? 

No, and I've already made that clear in a number of earlier posts.

>Which is one of the things that leads to the belief that those
>people are motivated by misogyny.

Have you lumped me with them because of a misconception of what
I stand for?  Well, with Adrienne and others distorting my position,
I am not surprised.

>>>>>       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 

>>>>Would you say you are a part of your hang gliding harness?

>>>Is his hang gliding harness using his body?

>>No. His body is using the hang gliding harness.  Can't you follow
>>a simple analogy?

>Condescension does not suit you, Nyikos.  In fact, I was heading
>off any attempt to MAKE an analogy to pregnancy.  Because had
>you attempted to make that analogy, it would have been incredibly
>lame.

You don't know Galen Hekhuis like I do, apparently.  Watch for a
post later this week, "You Should Have Known I Would Do This. (To Galen et
al)"


>>Peter Ny.

>                     -rocker

Peter Ny.