HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dreeves@ese.ogi.edu (Doug Reeves)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Soaring decisions (was: ...long boring flights)
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:30:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42573
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute - Department of Env. Science and Eng.

In article <9209091544.AA10540@lri.uwo.ca> steckner@lri.uwo.ca (Michael Steckner) writes:
>>None other than Paul MacCready of more recent Gossamer (Albatross/Condor)
>
[Interesting stuff about Paul MacCready deleted]
 
>>MacCready was not a very smooth pilot, however
>I also read/heard it somewhere that he was in terrible need of flying practice.

Well, like me, he's allways hopping from project to project while
still earning a living.  Unlike me, he's a very gifted and capeable
engineer.
   
[More stuff deleted]

>One other story about his MPA stuff was his design criterion. IN the
>pursuit of lightness, if a part consistently stayed in one piece, it
>was too strong and therefore too heavy. It was then weakened/lightened
>until it would break periodically. I also saw in a book a photo of
>one of the lab books which showed the weight of each part in grams.

Ideeed, if this is the same Paul MacCready I'm thinking of he is
*obsessive* with this.  He was instrumental in the GM/Aerovironment
Sunraycer car which won the first (1987) Pentax World Solar 
Challenge in Australia.  His company, Aerovironment, basically took
advanced parts from GM and turned them into a first-place finisher.
This is the first I've heard about him being a pilot, though.
He has also done extensive work on HPVs (Human powered vehicles)
with the same zeal.  Quite an engineer.
 
>The man does take care of details!

Indeed.

D. Reeves

--
|B. Douglas Reeves  Dept. Environmental Sci.& Eng.   Oregon Graduate Institute|
|N6XHW on 146.900 in PDX              dreeves@ese3.ese.ogi.edu everywhere else|
|  "... life itself represents a nonequilibrium condition." - James F. Pankow |
From: mark@xfbdev.megatek.com (Mark Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: DEA .vs. Florida
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:06:11 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

It seems to me that if the situation in Florida with respect to the
DEA is as bad as it seems to be from the thing that I have read, that
people should seriously consider JUST NOT GOING THERE. And telling the
local Chamber of Commerce why. I would think that if the state
officials were sufficiently riled up about it, they could convince
congress to rein these clowns in.

It sure has worked with respect to states which took "incorrect"
positions vis-a-vis Martin Luther King day, etc.

Maybe a south Florida fly-out?

-mark
-- 
--- 
Rocket J. Squirrel			{uunet,ucsd,sun}!megatek!mark
	"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a Rabbit out of my hat!"
		"Again!? But that trick never works!"
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons,   Tail lift.
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:33:58 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <LHE.92Sep13132120@lludd.sics.se>, lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
>>> myth...  Typically it generates negative lift at high speeds and
>>> positive lift at low speeds.
> 
> When the angle of attack increases, the center of lift moves forward.
> This is the reason you need a stabiliser in the first place. A wing is
> inherently unstable.
> 
> So, at low speed, the centre of lift is further forward than at high
> speed. This means that at low speeds the stabiliser must give higher
> upward (or smaller downward) lift than at high speeds.

But doesn't the tail have to have some downward (negative) lift at all
times to overcome aerodynamic pitching moment? Or am I missing something?

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 20:19:25 GMT

drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) writes:
>The airport is reported to be privately owned and without a tower.

Santa Paula is certainly uncontrolled, and I don't know whether it's
owned by the city or by the Santa Paula Airport Association.  It's
public-use.

>Anyone else heard anymore about this? The news report stressed that the
>problem was the uncoordinated airport in a residential neighborhood.

Santa Paula isn't surrounded by nothingness, but it isn't exactly
in a residential neighborhood.  One side (the pattern side) is nothingness,
the departure corridor is nothingness, and final is mostly-nothingness.
The non-pattern side (where people are often flying upwind legs - because
of the geography a 45 entry won't work) is over the city of Santa Paula
and a freeway.

Given this accident and the one a year or so ago, it seems likely that
SZP will end up with a tower, or at least an active UNICOM.  Don't know
how well this will work, as a fair percentage of the aircraft there are
NORDO.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com (Jeff C. Glover)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Naval Air Station Tower - Code 7 - Wazzat?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:56:34 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

Listening to Moffet Tower (Mountain View, CA) this afternoon, a
military helo called in requesting "code 7" for the aircraft, for two
hours, on the right side of the aircraft.

What is code 7?
From: eandersn@MACH2.WLU.CA (Niels Ejvind Andersen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Test (posted by e-mail)
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:46:27 GMT
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University

My posts aren't getting out, so this was posted via

   rec-aviation@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
-- 
Niels Ejvind Andersen          eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca / 70511.2302@compuserve.com
Information Systems                                  Phone: (519) 884-1970 x2760
Wilfrid Laurier University                           Fax:         (519) 886-9351
Waterloo, ON  N2L 3C5  Canada                                        ... VFR NC4
From: deragon@GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU (John Paul Deragon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Sussex Air Crash
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:06:57 GMT


	I saw a brief blurb on the news about a single engine
plane that crashed after takeoff from Sussex Airport (N63)

	I didnt hear any details, I only saw a picture of
what appeared to be a white/tan cessna 172 wedged between 
some trees.

	Anyone have any details about this?

	John.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Interstate Landing--Not such a good idea
Keywords: Emergency Landing Road Interstate
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 16:26:39 GMT


In article <4948@metasoft.UUCP>, alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) writes:
|>I, like many of us, had it drummed in early that if the engine quits and
|>no airfield is close by, head for the interstate. Well, driving in my
|>car recently I began noticing that the interstate these days does not
|>afford the uncluttered tarmac I learned to expect. In fact, here in
|>the Northeast, many interstates have unmarked power lines crossing them,
|>as well as full width road signs and bridges. During the day, these might
|>be manageable obstacles, but at night, forget it.
|>
|>My primary training occurred 8 years ago. Did something happen recently?

I got just the opposite drummed into me during my primary training (all of
5 months ago), for just this reason. I don't think much has changed as far
as power lines and signs; perhaps it's the instructors who've changed.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
Looking forward to visiting Martha's Vineyard...
From: jwills@ISI.EDU (Jerry Wills)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Ride needed to Reno Air Races
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:08:37 GMT
Organization: USC-ISI


	I need to be back before midnight Sun. and the car or the cycle
(Motor) just isn't going to cut it, And I may be able to get you into a 
nice backyard/party on the edge of the course :^). I'm interested in going
either Friday night, or Sat morning.  Live in LA. SM airport is very close
also Please Email responses to JWills@ISI.EDU  or call.

	Thanks, and see you at the races

			Jerry Wills 
I'll have enough POWER when I can spin the tires at the end of the straight!
89 FJ, 83 Le Mans III Kit   DoD#500  KotF (Flag)   Mark Donahue, about 917's
USC/Information Sciences Institute  (USC/ISI)  SoCal (310) 822-1511 x 236

You done violated Physics, BOY!    Assume the position..... (Rider 5/92)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Subject:  'going to Katama? Help! Need two seats from Boston...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:58:12 GMT

Help! 'going to Katama? Live in the Boston area?

Two people I know in Boston are looking for a ride to
Katama. Do you have an extra seat or two, by any chance? 

A couple of friends in Boston are looking for a ride...

If you're not going, you're missing a *good* time! 'hope
to see the rest of you in the Bananna, soon to be known as
the Zipper Plane (or the Archer, sigh).

Thanks.

Howard G. Page

908 949-7077 w
908 542-8124 h
hgp@neural.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rrcunni@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Ray Cunningham)
Subject: CHEROKEE 140 - FOR SALE
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:47:01 GMT

I'm selling my Cherokee 140...currently based at Livermore, CA

3975 TT
860 smoh
Dual Nav Coms
	Terra 760
	Narco 12B
Terra 250 Transponder w/encoder
Two place intercom
annual 7/92
Outside 7 / Inside 8

$$14950

Ray Cunningham
days 510 8233480
evenings 510 7355090
From: cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert)
Subject: Re: Flying in warbirds or military aircraft
Organization: Loral Space Information Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:49:27 GMT

In article <2944@contex.contex.com> brian@porky.contex.com (Brian Love) 
writes:
> I'm looking for information regarding pleasure flights in a warbird.
> This would be a gift to a friend and I'm particularly interested in
> the Air Combat organization and any similar organizations.  Any other
> suggestions for obtaining a seat in an old warbird or a current
> generation military aircraft are welcome.

Tom Reilly's Vintage Aircraft in Kissemee, FLA offers rides in T6's and I 
think even a two-seat Mustang.   For a $1000 tax deductable donation,  Bob 
Collings will let you ride in one of his planes which includes a B24J, 
B17, A26, B25, and others.   You can probably even get multiple rides.  
Collings is based in Stow, MA.  His planes are usually on tour throughout 
the country.  There are probably other individuals out there that will 
take you up for a donation.   Don't try the CAF unless you are a member, 
and have worked your butt off.

Mark T. Evert
Friendswood, TX

My opinions are my own.
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 16:44:55 EDT
From: <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: [IN]sensible students

It seems  reasonable that any  CFI would be  perfectly justified in  refusing to
fly with a student s/he considered unsafe  in the air. It  also seems reasonable
that said CFI could  answer legitimate,  specific inquiries  received about  the
student in question without undue fear of litigous reprisal.

It  does NOT  seem reasonable  that a  CFI sould  reasonably expect  to be  able
to volunteer  unsolicited   information   about   any   such   student   without
exposing him/herself to a significant risk of (probably  successful) suit. There
are just too many factors stacked against such a course of action. For example:

Academic records are treated with enhanced confidentiality by law. Any competent
attorney could make a good case  for the fact  that flight training  falls under
such protection.

If there  are ANY  ethnic, sexual,  age, race,  etc., etc.,  differences between
the CFI and the student,  the CFI would  also run the  additional risk  of being
sued for discrimination.

Last,  even  though the  FAA  insists  that  CFI's  pass on  the  "psychological
fitness" of a student, unless they  (FAA) are also willing  to cloak the  CFI in
immunity from litigation for so doing, what they are really doing is setting the
CFI up for  suit  (possibly  charges)   of  practicing  unlicensed  medicine  by
encouraging him/her to  offer a  _professional_  opinion  on the  "psychological
fitness" of another person. Reporting to the  FAA in the personnae  of CFI would
give that same hypothetical attorney a very considerable opening to characterize
the action as the promulgation of a professional opinion; unless, of course, the
CFI is also   an  MD.  Then   there  are  all   the  usual  concerns   about  an
individual's privacy to contend with.

The  larger the  CFI's operation,  the more  likely the  litigation, due  to the
legal tactic of seeking "deep pockets".

But hey, maybe the poor CFI needed some excitement added to his/her life, eh?

W. K. Gorman
Disclaimer: Everything I say is lies. I am lying now.
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 16:23:56 EDT
From: <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: DEA on 60 minutes
 <1992Sep2.231458.17831@gtephx.UUCP>

In article <1992Sep2.231458.17831@gtephx.UUCP>, pfluegerm@gtephx.UUCP (Mike
Pflueger) says:
>
>In article <1992Sep1.210653.15651@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com
>(Mark Rowe) writes:
>> Anybody catch 60 minutes this past weekend.  They had a clip on the
>> DEA (drug enforcement agency) that seemed to me to pretty much confirm
>> the concerns that have recently been expressed in this news group
>> regarding the DEA's unrestricted (or at best lightly restricted) ability
>> to confiscate anyone's aircraft and resell it in auction without any
>> regard for due process.  The segment was a typical 60 minutes clip (read:
>
>
>Well, at least the (proposed?) legislation to be allowed to shoot down
>planes "suspected" of smuggling was canned!
>
>Is this what they mean by "the friendly skies"?

Definitely UNrestricted. Not even a warrant, in most cases. Just guns.

The DEA does this sort of no-charges-filed, sue-us-to-get-your-property-back
seizure all the time, on any kind of property, real estate, bank accounts,
etc. Court records have revealed their paid informants at airline
ticket counters, reporting anyone who buys a ticket for cash. The cash
is seized and the informant gets a percentage.

Those skies are getting "friendlier" all the time.  :-(

W. K. Gorman
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: calvin@boi.hp.com (Calvin K McDonald)
Subject: Good Electronic Calculators?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:43:27 GMT

I'm getting ready to buy an electronic flight calculator and would like any 
input as to which brand/model would be good.

I am generally unfamiliar with the different options offered from model to 
model.  How are they for battery life, physical size, ruggedness, etc.

I own an HP 41CV and understand there is an aviation pack for it.  A friend 
said it wasn't that great.  Any comments?  Is there one for the 48SX or 95LX?

.................................... | ......................................
.                        \__________( )__________/                         ..
. Calvin K. McDonald              o'   `o      HP Network Printer Division ..
. Email: calvin@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com             Boise, Idaho                ..
. Hardware Design Engineer                     Phone:  (208) 323-4678      ..
.............................................................................
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:01:16 GMT
Subject: First "flight"
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation


 Well, everybody else posts their first solo/got my license/passed my IFR/etc
 so here's my contribution:

 Yesterday I got into a perfectly good King-Air, popped up to 13,000 feet,
 and jumped out. 

 Yahooo!

 ..glen 

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: haralds@ifi.unit.no
Subject: Re: How realistic are simulators?
Organization: Ifi, University of Trondheim / AVH
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 12:24:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.194937.3178@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca writes:
>I've got a very basic flight simulator. On average, how realistic
>are simulators?
>
>Henry Choy
>choy@cs.usask.ca
>

Depends on what you mean by -realistic-.
To main things are of importance:
1)  The simulated object behaves like the real one. 
2)  The simulator gives the operator/pilot perceptual
feedback thet makes him react (and build up reflexes) like
in a real situation.

For 1: 
This is depending on how complex situations you want
to simulate. If you have'nt been in an aeroplane before, the
MS FlightSimulator in cessna mode behaves just like the
real thing (and will continue to do that for a long time). For
a skilled pilot this might not be the real thing -
you have to move to something more adwanced.

For 2:
A rule of thumb is that you don't need complicated effects to
fool your body. Flying a simulator very soon becomes as hard
(psycologically) as flying live. If you study this subject you
would be amaced by how little you need. Actually - you can train
people in coordination using: a chair, 2 books, 1 wood stick.
Place the 'pilot' on the chair, one book under each foot, stick in hand.
If he has been up alredy, the rest is in his mind.

For both points - the most important thing is weather you are training
(observing?) complex or simple situations.

Harald Stegavik
From: greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Interstate Landing--Not such a good idea
Keywords: Emergency Landing Road Interstate
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:27:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: octopus.greg.716221636
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc

jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown) writes:

>greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
>>	They repeatedly asked for a special VFR clearance into
>>	BMG but were denied (because of inbound IFR traffic I assume).  They
>>	then landed on Ind. 37 as a precautionary measure.

>This sounds like an excellent example of a pilot that should have used
>the E word.  Sure, it would attract the authorities' attention, but so will
>landing on a highway, and having the tower resequence a few IFR flights
>so you can land on a real runway beats dodging cars any day.

Yes, I completely agree.

  I found out a little more about the circumstances here.  Apparently,
at the time they wanted the SVFR, BMG tower was calling it 1000' and
1/2 mile.  So they couldn't even go in under SVFR conditions.

Actually, I think the pilot made one good decision in the whole
thing.  He landed, under power, on a pretty much empty 4-lane
highway.  His decisions up to that point (flying VFR in IMC, hesitating
to use the E-word) were terrible but at least he knew he was low on
fuel and elected to put it down on his own terms before he became
a glider pilot, possibly over a congested area.

greg

--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Address of Air Museum at Boeing Wanted.
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:19:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <10301@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> waynej@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Wayne Kan Jung) writes:
>Can someone tell me the address and direction to the Air Museum at
>Boeing near Seattle?  If possible, I would like to know the direction
>to the Everette Boeing assembly plant too.

By land, air or sea?

The Museum of flight is at the southwest corner of Boeing Field, right
off E Marginal Way.  By air, land at BFI and ground will instruct you.
Call the Museum first with an ETA.  By car, take the Airport Way/E Marginal
Way exit from I5.  By boat, come up the Duwamish river and beach it under the
bridge that leads to the big Boeing parking lot.

Boeing's Everett plant is adjacent to Paine field on Everett's south side.
By air, land at PAE and ground will instruct you.  By car, take the Mukelteo
exit from I5 and follow the signs.  By boat, you're in a heap of trouble.

-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:10:11 GMT

sross@convex.com (Steve Ross) writes:
>Many pilots don't even bother to announce there intention ...

Many airplanes at Santa Paula do not have radios.  It is one of the few places
left in Southern CA where it is possible to operate an airplane with no
electrical system.
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: What do you think of Berkut?
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:51:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I seen this long-EZ type kit plane called BERKUT in Pop Mech magazine 
recently regarding a writeup on Oskosh (sp?).  Reading the performance, 
and seeing the picture, I thought it was a pretty cool plane.  Can somebody 
with aircraft ownership experience talk about owning something like that 
compared to owning a 152 or a 172?

Obviously there is a capacity difference (2-sitter vs 4-sitter for 172),
but what is the social impact of that (personal life, not world peace,
nor environment)?  Cost of fuel, maintenance, actually building the 
plane (cost of space rental while building the plane), skill required, etc.
Whatever deem to require attention.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: powell@wraith.netops.gtefsd.com (Mike Powell "GTE FSD Net Mgr")
Subject: Re: Trainer Stolen & Returned 3 times
Organization: Contel Federal Systems (Telecom)
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 17:53:33 GMT

In article <5956.2aa77645@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep03.221050.23352@i88.isc.com>, ericth@i88.isc.com (Eric Thiele) writes:
>> The Tattler, West Chicago, IL 9/3/92
>> 
>> This just in from the scene at DuPage Airport.
>> 
>> Early this morning, a twin engine Cessna 152 was stolen from, and subsequently 
>[deleted]
>
>I just have one question. Where exactly is the second engine?
This explains why the 152 has lousy performance.
We were carrying around the useful ballast but did know it was there. :-)
Congrats!
Mike
--
Mike Powell PPASEL
"It's hard to find router bits for your cisco"
Disclaimer: I speak for myself. No direct relation to the DUAT folks.
internet: powell@wraith.netops.gtefsd.com  Usenet: uunet!wraith.netops.gtefsd.com!powell
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Density Altitude and the 3 H's
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:20:55 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

I have seen many articles and heard many lectures about the 3 H's associated
with high density altitudes:

  High,
  Hot, & 
  Humid

However, in calculating density altitude (e.g. on E6B flight computer),
humidity is not accounted for.  Density altitude is simply the pressure
altitude adjusted for temperature.

I am looking for the "formula" which takes humidity into consideration.
Where can I look? 

-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation