HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Why didn't Apple sue?
Summary: Finder vs Workspace.
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:08:41 GMT

First the facts:
		I've never seen a NeXT computer or the Workspace shell.
		I've only read a detailed description about them in the
		'NeXT Book'.

When a read about the NeXT's Workspace shell it sounded and looked very
similiar to the Macintosh Finder, with dragging and dropping of icons between
folders etc.  So my question is:  Why didn't Apple sur NeXT for look-n-feel
when the NeXT Workspace shell was first released?

	Possible answers:

	a)	They really "couldn't" sue Steve Jobs.
	b)	The shells simply aren't similar.
	c)	?

Follow up question:	(a though one)

			Do you think NeXT would take legal look-n-feel action
			against someone imitating their shell on another 
			platform?

Please respond via e-mail if possible.

Thanks in advance.
-- 

\ Internet: karlth@rhi.hi.is             \ Karl Thoroddsen University Of Iceland
 \ Respect...            , Peter Ustinov  \ Department Of Computer Science
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:14:42 GMT

In article <1adba7INNora@gap.caltech.edu> ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.205333.27125@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
>spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
>> The problem with this argument is that it prevents many enthusiastic  
>> young programmers from cutting their teeth on the machine. 
>True.
>
>> By not tapping into this  
>> market more, NeXT is limiting the potential market for developers.   
>> Why do you think so few big houses are developing for NeXT?
>Also true.
>
>> But you'd still  
>> think that in almost two years there could have been _some_ price  
>> movement.  DOS and Mac prices are in freefall; NeXT prices have  
>> barely budged.  
>
>It's a quality versus quantity issue.  NeXT has been steadily adding value,  
>upping horsepower and maintiaining a steady price point. They have (sometimes  
>crudely) been obsoleting old machines to avoid facing compatibility problems.
>They are trying to keep the lowest common denominator moving forward.
>
>At some point NeXT will have to say:  "Okay, this is the lowest level of  
>performance that is acceptable in a NeXT, and we will commit to making sure  
>everything from now on works on that."  Once they do that, then prices will  
>start to plunge the market will open up to all those eager young programmers,  
>etc.
>
>However, once that happens, NeXT will be stuck with all the inertia and  
>backwards compatibility issues that make the Mac what it is today.  There is  
>always a tradeoff between being innovative and being a commodity.  I'm sure  
>somebody at NeXT is thinking real hard about where to draw the line. Wherever  
>they draw it, somebody will be upset.  Only time will tell if the know what  
>they are doing.
 
  But Ernie, you dodged the question. True, NeXT has opened up the high
  end of the price spectrum by adding capability.  But the low end has
  not budged, even though there have been perfectly acceptable machines
  available for two years (the 8/105 mono machine) which have held their
  prices.  True, NeXT has managed to sell off many of these machines
  internally at fire-sale prices to good effect, but in the meantime,
  Apple has cut their LIST prices twice (or maybe three times, I'm not
  sure) on their machines.   Why hasn't the mono machine been made 
  available at a lower price than $5K?             

  Jon Rosen

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Kenneth K.F. Lui)
Subject: Re: 4.0 Wish: Bundled Groupware Tool
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:05:26 GMT

In article <1actrmINN9po@gap.caltech.edu> ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep30.180319.20967@CS.ORST.EDU> chase@stumpy.cs.orst.edu (A.  
>Chase Turner) writes:
>>                  groupware tools are designed to manage
>> coordinated interaction in highly concurrent working sessions
>> where effective problem solving is based upon real-time group
>> interaction. 
>
>Sounds fascinating, but for those of us who are less familiar with the jargon,  
>could you elaborate a bit?
>
It's more like being able to share applications across a network
among people.  With Shared-X, I can let several people have
"read-only" access to applications I have access to or I can give
them "read/write" access.  Most of the time, it would be
read-only but there will be times when read/write access will be
necessary.  I had a chance to use it when a sales rep down in
L.A. needed to see a prototype application we wrote and it was
great.  It's more than exporting one's display because both ends
see the app, and both ends have the potential to interact with
it.  I really don't see it as a necessary component of X or even
with NeXTSTEP; it's great for tech support, troubleshooting,
and demoing, however.


Ken

The above are my opinions and do not reflect those of my
employer.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco)
Subject: I want my NTV (in 4.0)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:20:04 GMT


Does anybody know (or does anybody care) about full-motion digital video  
on the NeXT? I have been reading quite a bit about MIT's Media Lab, and  
their musings about having one screen at home be both your computer and  
your TV. The question is, will it be NeXT TV with a 10-foot screen and  
HDTV resolution? If NeXT pursues this market properly, supporting PX64 and  
MPEG compression schemes, then a NeXT can be infiltrated into every  
American home in the guise of a sophisticated TV set. Given that scenario,  
why fight Microsoft and Sun for the desktop? Let them have it. We'll take  
the living rooms!

That's my two dollars.

-Marcos J. Polanco
-shiva@vega.stanford.edu

BTW, how's the FCC evaluation of HDTV approaches going?
BTW, how's Frox in Sunnyvale doing?
From: nether@wpi.WPI.EDU (Joel C Belog)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun OR NeXT?! - help
Date: 6 Oct 1992 15:53:49 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <92280.082407MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu> <MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>how to convince management you want a NeXT?  Try this:  Say, "I'd like
>my workstation to be a NeXT."  If they say, "Sorry, can't do that," then
>you look really forlorn and say that that's too bad, but you'll have to quit.


And if they say ... "Bye-bye", then what?  Luv my NeXT, but how about
a reality check ... 

was there supposed to be smileys sprinkled liberally all over the place?

later,
Joel

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:04:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.153746.19372@csus.edu> eps@cs.sfsu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.134738.7124@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp
>	(Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>Let's see 386+ cache controller +387. What is it that the 486 has that this
>>combination does not?
>
>The ability to convert between little-endian and big-endian
>representation -=>FAST<=-.

Besides, the cost difference between a high-end 386 and a low-end 486
is negligable.  By the time NS486 is out the difference will be
insignificant - particularly once Cyrix gets it's 486 out on the
market.

Performance will be unacceptable on a 386.  The albatross around
NeXT's neck is the 030 Cube w/optical drive.  NeXT won't make the same
mistake twice.  Microsoft certainly isn't telling anyone you can run
NT on a 386.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave Griffiths)
Subject: Re: NeXTStep : -) , Wind/X11 :-(   [was: In BYTE (NeXT) ]
Organization: Primitive Software Ltd.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:40:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.000512.20710@leland.Stanford.EDU> kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks) writes:
>In article <66790@cup.portal.com> sailer@cup.portal.com (Lee Douglas Sailer) writes:
>>>
>>
>>While I mostly agree with the points made in this post, I have to
>>point out that it is **possible** that NeXT made one or two teensy, tiny
>>mistakes.  Not allowing the key window to stay in the back is one of them.
>>
>
>Oh, of course NeXT can make a lot of mistakes.  But, I would rather
>have a few mistakes and have everything be consistent, than let every
>programmer override everything and create an environment that is far
>too complex to be understood quickly.
>

There is a third possibility: have a consistent user interface across all
applications but, by the magic of shared libraries, allow the look and feel
to be customized by the user.

Dave Griffiths
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: hlam@bnr.ca (Hayward Lam)
Subject: Re: NeXT RISC machine out in first half 93...!?
Reply-To: hlam@bnr.ca (Hayward Lam)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 22:37:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.150117.2248@bmers95.bnr.ca>, hlam@bnr.ca (Hayward Lam) writes:
|> 
|> NeXT was in the Ottawa trade show that I went to 2 days ago.
|> A NeXT representative I talked to indicated that a 200 MIPS NeXT RISC machine
|> will be delivered in 2nd 93. It is going to be called the "brick" for sure.
|> The representative would not confirm which CPU is used. 
|> Anyways. Developers will have faster machines to develop engineering 
|> applications!!!
|> 
|> 
|> Hayward
|> email to hlam@bnr.ca

I had a mistake in my original posting. It was a representative from the local dealer I talked to, not a NeXT representive. 
Anyways. NeXT neither confirms nor denies the rumor described above. So take
it at your own risk.

I would definitely like to see a fast NRW.


Regards,
Hayward
email to hlam@bnr.ca

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm just a person at the right place at the right time talking to the wrong person."
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:24:07 EDT
From: <MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun OR NeXT?! - help
Distribution: usa
 <1992Oct1.001723.26685@dvorak.amd.com>

how to convince management you want a NeXT?  Try this:  Say, "I'd like
my workstation to be a NeXT."  If they say, "Sorry, can't do that," then
you look really forlorn and say that that's too bad, but you'll have to quit.
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Date: 30 Sep 1992 22:56:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pundit.cithep.caltech.edu

In article <1992Sep30.205333.27125@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
> The problem with this argument is that it prevents many enthusiastic  
> young programmers from cutting their teeth on the machine. 
True.

> By not tapping into this  
> market more, NeXT is limiting the potential market for developers.   
> Why do you think so few big houses are developing for NeXT?
Also true.

> But you'd still  
> think that in almost two years there could have been _some_ price  
> movement.  DOS and Mac prices are in freefall; NeXT prices have  
> barely budged.  

It's a quality versus quantity issue.  NeXT has been steadily adding value,  
upping horsepower, and maintiaining a steady price point.  They have (sometimes  
crudely) been obsoleting old machines to avoid facing compatibility problems.
They are trying to keep the lowest common denominator moving forward.

At some point NeXT will have to say:  "Okay, this is the lowest level of  
performance that is acceptable in a NeXT, and we will commit to making sure  
everything from now on works on that."  Once they do that, then prices will  
start to plunge, the market will open up to all those eager young programmers,  
etc.

However, once that happens, NeXT will be stuck with all the inertia and  
backwards compatibility issues that make the Mac what it is today.  There is  
always a tradeoff between being innovative and being a commodity.  I'm sure  
somebody at NeXT is thinking real hard about where to draw the line.  Wherever  
they draw it, somebody will be upset.  Only time will tell if the know what  
they are doing.

- Ernie "NeXT Purity" Prabhakar
--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 4:5b
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Financial status of NeXT
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:44:55 GMT
Reply-To: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: ifbb657@donald.cc.utexas.edu


  How financially stable is NeXT?  I do not want to purchase a turbo
station to find out that the machine is as dead as the TI99/4A with
regards to software base expansion if NeXT goes under.

-- 
ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)

MS-Windows NT:             (Insert standard disclaimer here)
                           
Another reason to leave
your computer turned off.
From: stuart@cco.caltech.edu (Stuart Wagner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chrysler order gives you some idea about NeXT
Date: 26 Sep 1992 15:38:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

All this stuff about why Chrysler bought NS486 instead of NeXT
hardware - did anyone think that they want to run it on the machines
that they have NOW instead of spending the money on new hardware.

Just my two cents...

Stuart Wagner
swagner@nba19.med.uth.tmc.edu
From: cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles William Swiger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Software for NRW
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:00:26 GMT
Organization: Senior, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 6-Oct-92 Software for NRW
tlc@cx5.com (151)

>Assuming that indeed NeXT is coming out with RISC machines in the near
>future:
>
>Will the software I run now on an 040 machine run on the RISC machine?

No.  The 680x0 and the various kinds of RISC chips do not share a common
instruction set; therefore *everything* will have to be recompiled.

This shouldn't be that bad in theory; in practice, it's more difficult
because there are always little details that need to be fixed.  Witness
the problems Sun has had in getting a working compiler for their SPARC
machines....

-Chuck

+---------------------------------------------+ 
|  Charles William Swiger -- CMU sucks rocks  | "The television screen is the
|   AMS & normal mail: cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu   | retina of the mind's eye."
|    NeXTmail: <temporarily out of order>     |           
+---------------------------------------------+            --Videodrome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: So much for Msoft's bluster <grin>
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:56:42 GMT


WAS:  NT == VAPOR!  IS:  NT == VAPOR!

From comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:
>
> 09/25 (DW) Microsoft Delays Shipments of Windows NT Operating System
>    By Ken Yamada
>    Dow Jones Staff Reporter
>	
>    REDMOND, Wash. -DJ- Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) said the first shipments
> of its Windows NT operating system software are expected to be delayed
> until early 1993.
>

Ooh!  Boy!  I feel the vapor dissipating as we speak! ;)  Not... :)
Is *anybody*, *ANYBODY* suprised at this announcement?  


NT developer's meeting at MicroScum:

Dev. #1:  What did Rick say in that last design meeting?
Dev. #2:  Sumpin about threads, I dunno....
Dev. #3:  Whassat?  Kinda like a task?  MDI sheet?  Event?
Dev. #1:  (BONKS Dev. #3)  No, idjut, that's what we're calling processes!
DC:       Oh my god.  Somebody hand me the damn Pert chart...


Heh. :)


Standard disclaimer, nothing to do with my employer...



jb



--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
        NT...  Just say N0T.   Skate UN*X!   Standard disclaimer. 
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
From: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun OR NeXT?! - help
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:14:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: dvorak.1992Sep30.141452.24822
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Sep29.202906.3917@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> eboltz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu  
(Eric Scott Boltz) writes:
>>Dear NeXTers,
>>I've started a new job at NIST in Boulder, CO and need to get 
>>a workstation. In grad school I used an '040 cube with 64Mb of
>>RAM and a 640 MB Fujitsu (and of course an OD - it was an 'upgraded'
>>cube). I also owned a NeXTstation at home for a while (sold it).
>>
>>Here's my situation: I have to get a workstation _soon_ since the gov't's
>>fiscal year begins in Oct and all the funds get spent quick.
>>
>>Everyone here used SPARCs, so they're pushing me in that direction; hard.
>>My main uses are: Mathematica, mathematical modelling of wave propagation
>>(i.e. lots of numerical integration of complex functions), image processing,
>>word processing, spreadsheet, etc. 
>>
>>The SPARC systems under consideration are the IPX and (maybe) the Sparc 10-31
>>which is considerably faster than ANY NeXT.
>>Either machine will need a C/C++ compiler, FORTRAN and Mathematica.
>>
>>Now the hard part; how to sell my leaders on a NeXT...?
>>
>>Eric S. Boltz
>>eboltz@cndenext.mrs.jhu.edu
>>eboltz@srv430.bldr.nist.gov      
>>eboltz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
>>etc, etc.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.

I've had the opportunity to use Mma on Suns, Macs, NeXTs, and PCs (Windoz).

Fact.  

The Notebook front end to Mma on the NeXT blows them all away !  Combine  
InterfaceBuilder with the new and improved Mathlink and you'll be building  
custom frontends to a kernal in a fraction of the time it would take to do it  
on any of the other platforms.  You might also consider this - On the SUN, try  
getting that beautiful Mma 3D graph into FrameMaker (or whatever you're using).   
If it's as easy as command-c commamd-v then go for the faster machine,  
otherwise I think the NeXT is the way to go (especially considering the apps  
you want to run).


--
Ronald Pomeroy		[Objective-CruntimeBe:[Smalltalk runtime]];
Advanced Micro Devices	[self dream-on];
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com (NeXTmail preferred)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: US versus European prices. What the hell is going on?
From: frank@ifi.unibas.ch (Robert Frank)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:38:40 GMT
Reply-To: frank@ifi.unibas.ch
Organization: Institut fuer Informatik

In article <1992Oct5.214725.25799@news.nd.edu>  writes:
> In article <1992Sep29.105121.18238@cs.tu-berlin.de> ciardo@cs.tu-berlin.de  
> (Gianfranco Ciardo) writes:
> > > > I've been comparing US prices with prices
> > > > in Holland and Germany.
> > > > 
> > > > The European prices are 30% higher.
> > > > Why oh why?
> > 
> > ... passage deleted ...
> > 
> > Seriously, everything is, at the moment, extremely (30-100 %) more  
expensive
> > in Europe than in the US, due to currency (dollar is low), and VAT (which
> > is incredibly high in Europe, 20% in Germany, up to 38% in Italy).
> > 
> Sorry, but this is a bit backwards; at least the part about the dollar is.  A  
> cheap dollar should make US goods cheap in Europe (or at least those  
countries  

agreed, but ...

> whose currencies are strong vis-a-vis the dollar).  It should have no effect  
on  
> goods produced in Europe (I don't therefore understand why EVERYTHING should  
be  
> more expensive) or, for that matter, in Japan.
> If a NeXT retails for $5000 and the dollar exchanges at 2 marks, then (taxes  
> aside) a NeXT "should" cost DM 10000.  If the dollar falls to 1.5 DM, then a  
> NeXT "should" cost DM 7500.  Or am I missing some subtlety in your logic????
> 

You're missing something else, it's called 'stock'. If a vendor buys a few  
machines with an exchange rate of 2DM to 1$ but can then not sell all  
immediately, he has an investment of DM10'000 per machine made. If the exchange  
then drops to, say DM1.5 per $, what should he do? Sell for the new exchange or  
tell the customer to receive one of these units: 'sorry, this maschine was  
bought at a hiher exchange-rate!'?

Importing is always problematic when continously changing exchange rates are  
involved. The usual is to keep a small 'buffer' on expensive and low/volume  
items. This shows up by the fact that the prices are not immediately changed  
when the exchange-rates go down but very quickly go up if the rates go up...

And then there are a whole number of other expenses apart from transport and  
taxes. (I'm somewhat involved with a [family run] importing business.)

> 
> --
> Jim Stukas                          (219) 239-8292
> User Services                       Bitnet: jstukas@irishvma
> Office of University Computing      internet: stukas@mbolo.cc.nd.edu
> University of Notre Dame            NeXT mail cheerfully accepted

--
Robert Frank                         tel. + (061) 321 99 67                 
Institut fuer Informatik             fax  + (061) 321 99 15                 
University of Basel, Switzerland                                            
Mittlere Strasse 142      rfc822: frank@ifi.unibas.ch (NeXT mail accepted)  
CH-4056 Basel          X400: S=frank;OU=ifi;O=unibas;P=switch;A=arcom;C=ch
                   ( if all fails try frank@urz.unibas.ch )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: wanguhnk@nextnet.csus.edu (e. kaman wanguhm)
Subject: Help with News
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:26:56 GMT

I have C-News set up and running on my machine but do not seem to be
getting any news to go to my /usr/spool/news directory.  All the news
comes in through the modem to the /usr/spool/uucp directory structure
but nothing ever happens.  Well I get messages that we are short on
space.  I have 50 Meg on my hard disk and using an OD with 200 meg free
as the spool directory, this is symbolically linked to the
/usr/spool/news directory.

Any help pointers or fingers in my eyes welcome as I am getting pretty
desperate

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kamau Wanguhu                     |He was like a cock who thought the
				  |sun had risen to hear him crow
E-Mail                            |
csusac.ecs.csus.edu!borgcube!kamau|	[GEORGE ELIOT 1819P1880]
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy