HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevint@hpsadqa.sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci)
Subject: Re: Mike Meyer vs. AMOS
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:35:21 GMT

 (DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
> The latest salvos fired by Mr. Meyer remind me of the classic division in the
> Amiga world. Most technically-inclined folks who bought Amigas can be placed
> into 2 groups:
> 
> A)  People who really like Unix boxes. 
> 
> B) Ex 8-bitters (C64, Atari800, etc). 

I guess I comprise a third group. 

C) Falls into both A & B. This person is a middle aged (is 32 middle aged, oh 
   my god I guess it is) yuppie professional who loves and programs UNIX boxes 
   and used to own an Atari 800 which I hacked to death. 
   

Your still right though, I can't decide which of the latest toys I would like
to see included in the next Amiga model, there are so many to choose from.
However, having said that I think C= is doing a pretty good job with the 
release of the A1200 and A4000. It could have happened a little sooner though.

       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
      | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |
      | Hewlett Packard Firmware QA | HPDesk: Kevin TADDEUCCI /HP5300/A0 |
      | Telnet: 794-4192            | HP Mailstop: 2LR-N                 | 
       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:50:59 EST
From: Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
 <BxMwAE.L5H@starnine.com><1992Nov14.131846.1672@msus1.msus.edu>
 <torban.721901669@csuvax1><69657@cup.portal.com>
 <92322.143017CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> <69822@cup.portal.com>

In article <69822@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) says:
>
>>(I can't wait to see how many people accuse me of being a pirate.
>
>I'll bet you sing "yo-ho yo-ho a pirates life for me" in the shower.
>
Ar, ya caught me thar matee.  Me and the ol' boys sit 'round our 500 swillin'
Grogg and churnin' out copies o' Space Boogers (c) all night long!

(:- bit o' sarcasm for the humor impaired.)

>TomK@cup.portal.com
>Tom Krotchko            (<- Guess that's one  :)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
cms129 at psuvm       |  mine but those of my pet hamster Gizmo. HE'S
cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  responsible for this! Blame him!        ^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Short Comdex Review
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:24:00 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

I just got back from ComDex. After recovering from the 25+ hour return drive
from Las "City of Smut" Vegas to Seattle I am finally ready to post a short
list of highlites.

While at the C= booth I had the opportunity to talk the the director
of marketing present. He was very candid. When asked about a power-up
plan to the AGA line of Amigas he said " what sort of plan do you want?
Let's make one right here." Then I realized that this migh be THE director
of marketing. He was pretty "on the ball" regarding Amiga specs
and technology. A small list of intresting items:

- There  will be a power-up plan of some sort sometime in January.
- C= realizes that the AGA chips are a "keep even" effort for C=.
- Things that make AGA look really weak are in the works.
- The A1200 is part of the "A4000" family and a 030 A4000 is on the way.

Now for a few more items:

One of the A4000s was running a cool rendered animation in HAM8. It looked
to be 640x480 and the marketing guy told me they had to slow it down to
30 frames/sec from 60. It was done by Chris Green, so perhaps he could
tell more about it. It was great. On an A3000 they were running an opal
vision card playing a full-motion animation of a Klingon D-5 battle cruiser
de-cloaking and firing on the Enterprise. Very nice. I saw the
A1200 and played with it a bit. It was running an Amiga Vision pro script
and displayed some very nice transistions including a "roll-back"
effect like the one on the toaster. Another thing, the composite
color input on the A1200 was very very clean. Almost as good
as the RGB. The A1200 has composite color, RGB and RF out. They had the 
A1200 driving two monitors (one RGB, the other composite) they were
almost identical.

I also went to the Atari booth. The falcon is a pretty nice machine.
They said they would be shipping by early January. We'll see. They
had a nice full-motion video with 16 bit sound demo. All the
versions of MultiTOS I saw were in German. The case itself looked
to be rather shoddy, many of the Falcon labels were coming off and some
of the cases were splitting apart like my old C-64 did when I wore out
the screws from taking it apart it frequently. The Falcon display
was very nice, very sharp. One of them was playing Photo CDs.
One was running a German PC hardware based emulator (there goes the only
expansion slot). I got the impression from the Atari folks that this was
a "last-gasp" effort. In all honesty I would like to see the Falcon
succeed in order to keep the fire lit under C=.


-- 
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Amiga 3000/25-130MB/6MB/DCTV  | Eagle Talon TSI AWD/ABS/Turbo     |
|                              | Iank@Microsoft.com                |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 19 Nov 92 10:44:37 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <92323.113145IO92257@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>,<1992Nov18.214850.16780@ncsu.edu>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Nov18.214850.16780@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>In article <92323.113145IO92257@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO92257@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>Really?  So did you enjoy the Cray or the DEC Alpha more?


I prefer VMS to CCL....so my vote would have to go to the Alpha...and since
OSF Unix taint out yet can't pick that one.

And as a matter of fact I used BOTH yesterday.  I was at Supercomputing '92.
Really shouldn't assume that someone hasn't used something. He probably ment
computers that are gennerally accessable to the public.

I personally think OS/2 multitasks fine...as does AmigaDOS...thing is AmigaDOS
is snappier (brings up windows faster/draws icons quicker) than my friends 
OS/2 2.0 486/33...but that is personal opinion.  I also noticed when using 
his computer that the Hard Disk is going CONSTANTLY, it seems quite bizzare as
whenever it's spinning it seems to slow the system down and it's spinning all
the time....when it's not spinning, OS/2 is quite nice to use...for the few
seconds here and there between swaps.

>
>John W. Linville


Jim.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: raist@rmece02.upr.clu.edu (Ricardo Hernandez)
Subject: Re: NEWTEK: WHAT HAPPENED?
Organization: UPR-Mayaguez--ASEL Lab
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:40:43 GMT

In article <kdarling.722355366@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu>, kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
|> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
|> >In article <1ejqfeINNjk4@network.ucsd.edu> simon@ivem.ucsd.edu (Simon)
|> >writes:
|> >>Yea, that's why they mention Mac and PC's all over the place, and hide the
|> >>Amiga's label.  That's not even mentioning technical aspects of computing,
|> >>but just recognizing a name.  Is that too hard to do?
|> >
|> >I wouldn't say that they conceal the Amiga label any more than CBM 'conceals'
|> >the origin of the products they OEM. The standalone Toaster is being
|> >marketed as a video workstation, not a computer. Like it or not, this device
|> >has garnered tremendous respect for the Amiga in general.
|> 
|> And people seem to forget that CDTV didn't have an Amiga label on it either.

   Yep, but C= says that you can turn your CDTV into an Amiga Computer
that uses Amiga software...

   The Toaster Station is already an Amiga computer, very capable of
running Amiga programs... this NewTek behaviour is real stupid. (IMHO,
of course).
 
|> kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
  Raist   // Amiga 500, 38Mhz Special MegaMidget Racer
        \X/  Avid user of AmigaVision, sending mail from Mayaguez, Puerto Rico 
---------
           "If the PC or Mac continues to be the standard,
            the SkyNet will never be built." - OUCH! were not my words!

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:14:29 GMT

martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??) writes:

>In article <BxMwAE.L5H@starnine.com>, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>In article <VXRTTB5w165w@bugend.edvina.se> ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans) writes:
>>>mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:

[The great debate - compressed for your satisfaction ---> .   ]

PS - (That's PRE-Script) you can read that mirco dot, by finding the
magnifying glass on level 354 of BLAZEMONGER, and for those of you with
pirated versions, who wont have a copy of the manual (it makes your colour
photocopier explode if you try anything smart, my 'friend' wanted to play
test my version, he still owes me the money for a new xerox machine!
 the password for the the USENET feed, available from the mad
proffessors lab on level 87, is xxxxxxx , so you can import the news.
 ===============================^^^^^^^   deleted by Customer services net
monitors!

>Not to join either side here, but I bet many of the "honest" people on the
>net here have a copy of an audio cassette, or a CD, or have copied pages
>from a book w/o authorization....it's called hippocracy, and it's far more
>rampant than the piracy of software...but...back to the subject.

Back to the serious stuff...
...and what about videoing stuff from TV?

Sure, this thing goes on in peoples houses everywhere, why do you think
blank video and audio cassettes (as well as disks) sell so much.  The point
is however, that despite the _rampant_ disregard for copyright here, the
volume of sales is still huge!  
There are two main reasons for this, firstly the sheer
number of people that listen to music, compared to those that are interested
in computers.  2nd (and this is related) the price per unit of music is so
low.
The average highschool kid can buy a 'single' practically every week, and can
easily afford a CD in 3 or 4.  Software is so much more expensive, $AU80
is just way out of the price range of any school kid.

I know this may look like I'm justifying piracy. I'm not!  I'm pointing out
why Software piracy is so more destructive than your common garden variety.
If Madonna's new CD is priated by everyone in a school, she's not really
going to care, she's still selling MILLIONS all over the world.  A piece of
software OTOH, sells in much smaller numbers so the effects are far greater.

Torban Bennett - torban@murdoch.edu.au
Oh oh, here comes Madonna's heavies....

Torban Bennett - Ex Net Lurker!  torban@murdoch.edu.au
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:21:05 EST
From: Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: What's the story with Commodore marketing?

I was at the local mall a couple days ago and decided to stop into Electronics
Boutique to see if they had any new Amiga stuff.  After searching the store for
a few minutes, I finnaly asked the clerk were the Amiga software is. He said
that they didn't cary any and had no plans to in to future.  In fact, he said
the other E.B.'s in the area had been clearing out their Amiga stock.  Is it
just me, or does this seem like a BAD THING?  When I asked him why they were
dropping Amiga support, he said it was Commodore's fault, that they didn't
give any support for the machine.  He agreed that the Amiga was a great machine
but that Commodore was killing it; the best thing that could happen for the
Amiga was if someone took over Commodore.

Why does Commodore ignore computer stores like E.B.?  Does Commodore even have
a marketing department?  Most of the people I talk to either never heard of the
Amiga or think it's a fancy game machine.  Is Commodore going to get on the
ball and start letting people know of the Amiga 1200 and 4000, or are they
going to do the same thing that they did with the earlier Amigas and just hope
word of mouth is good enough?  If Commodore doesn't go out and actively support
the Amiga, then it's never going to flurish (although it probably wont die,
thanks to everyone on .advocacy).  I love the Amiga, but I'm having trouble
convincing people that it's a good computer.  Commodore needs to give the Amiga
some public exposure.  Me running demos on my 500 isn't going to sell anyone.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
cms129 at psuvm       |  mine but those of my pet hamster Gizmo. HE'S
cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  responsible for this! Blame him!        ^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: espensk@stud.cs.uit.no (Espen Skoglund)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:53:29 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe

eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
>> Hey, who would want to buy a computer if he/she had to spend $200 for every
>> program they wanted to purchase? I wouldn't.
>
>Then why did you buy a computer?
>-Eyvind

Who said I did? And would you buy, let's say an A500, just to run WP or some
other "serious" programs on it, and maybe buy an overpriced game which you
would get tired of after some weeks anyway?

---
 /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ 
(  10 rem *** Nice program! ***             |   Letters: abcdefghijklmnopq    )
 ) 20 print"Espen Skoglund is my name. ";   |            rstuwxyzABCDEFGHI   (
(  30 goto 20                               |            JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ    )
 \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:43:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.102414.5742@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.151457.16329@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@mickey (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>> Jeffrey Grimmett 9999 (jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com) wrote:
>> : 
>> : Hm, well, I can get "more different things" done on my 020 at home than I can
>> : on a i486 under winders or OS/2 or Unix.  Why do you think that is?
>> 
>> Because you're not in touch with reality, esp. about OS/2 and Unix?
>
>	Heres a typical Jerry response.  He's got some kind of inside
>	track on reality.  Give me a break.

Yes, I agree.  But, most people DO agree with him.  There is a difference.

>> : Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
>> Jerry J. Shekhel				jerry@msi.com
>Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization **
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Distribution: world
Date: 15 Nov 92 02:02:41 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <KENTD.92Nov12142110@zappa.FtCollins.NCR.com> kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton) writes:
>>>>>> griffita@fraser.sfu.ca (David Stuart Griffiths) said:
>
>>	She made a good decision.  Engineers use either PCs or
>>workstations by IBM, SUN, DEC or HP -- Not Amigas.
>
>David> True enough
>
>Real Engineers(tm) use workstations, period. ;^)

Define a workstation.  At one time the PC/XT was considered to be a
workstation.

My main news feed is a 486/33.  The sysop works as a system administrator
for a Sun shop, and he considers the 486 to be faster that his IPX at work,
even with the load of X11.

>>	Moving to an Amiga would be a major major mistake.  Most college
>>people and nearly all engineers (myself included) have PCs.  If they
>>don't have PCs, they have to use the labs.  PCs are far more supported
>>than Amigas.
>
>David> I agree, in this SPECIFIC case, the Amiga WOULD be a mistake.
>
>I don't think this is necessarily the case. It really depends on what
>kind of computer setup your school uses. I graduated 2 years ago and
>where I went to school, we *never* used PCs for EE work. We primarily
>used Suns and a few other RISC workstations, a couple of left over VAXen
>and HP minis, and a Cray. The primary OS was UNIX.  Professors had
>mostly Mac II series computers. 

I guess it depends on which computer companies that a school gets it's
endowments from.

>A PC would have bought me nothing in school.  The Amiga is perfect for
>logging in via modem remotely and running SPICE on a Sun while and
>editing your lab reports while you wait for the simulation to finish,
>etc. The only time I ever used a PC for anything was to fill out an on-line
>registration system they had.

True.

>The ME's would have had a lot more trouble since they used AutoCAD all
>the time.
>
>The only time I've ever used a PC at work was to play Wolf 3D and
>lemmings when my SPARCstation was down due to a faulty memory upgrade.
>:^)
>
>I've advised friends on a computer for engineering school work and many
>times the right answer is a clone but an Amiga might work more often
>than you'd think if you went to school or work where the computer
>resources are clone-centric.
>
>So your mileage may vary. 

I guess it depends on how dependent courses are on specific applications.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an
Reply-To: etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:59:33 GMT

In article 9790@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov, gregk@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Koolbeck - RMS) writes:
> etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl) writes:
> 
> >> RISC or not, the IPC CPU seems pretty low-end.  Isn't it the same one used in
> >> the ELC?
> 
>   Nope. The ELC has a 40 MHz SPARC chipset. The IPC has a 28?MHz chipset,
> approximately the same as the SparcStation 1+. On the other hand, both machines
> have 8 "hardware contexts" in the MMU. What this means is that 7 processes in
> the run queue are easy to make the running process, since their register set
> pointers, page tables, etc. are already in the MMU. Context switches are 
> expensive in the SPARC architecture. Also, the ELC is typically underpowered
> in that it rarely has much memory or a local hard drive. If an ELC is swapping
> over the network, watch out.
> 
> >We talked about Sun IPX and not IPC. It's possible IPC's have the same CPU
> >as ELC, but I don't know much about it.
> 
>   The IPX, SparcStation 2, and the ELC all use the same CPU.
> 
> >I know that a IPX with a GFX-card is something real nice to play with though.
> >(The guy sitting in the room next to mine has one)
> > 
> 
>   They're OK if they have enough loacal swap and memory.

% df
Filesystem            kbytes    used   avail capacity  Mounted on
[zap]
swap                  151276       0  151276     0%    /tmp

% sysinfo
[zap]
Main Memory         : 48 MB


Someone sent me the following information: (Yes, I know - We're in an Amiga newsgroup)

        MIPS    MHz     SpecInt92       Specfp92        MFLOPS
SS1     12      20      9,6             7,8             2,5
SS1+    15,7    25      13,8            11,1
IPC     15,7    25      13,8            11,1
ELC     ~22     33      18,2            17,9
IPX     28,5    40      21,8            21,5            4,2
SS2     28,5    40      21,8            22,8            4,2
LX      59,2    50      26,4            21,0            4,6

And on the different SS10 models:

  *                     Model 30   Model 41   Model 52*   Model 54*     *
  *                     --------   --------   --------    --------      *
  *                        Uni        Uni     2-way MP    4-way MP      *
  * SPECint92             44.2       52.6        58.1 per CPU           *
  * SPECfp92              52.9       64.7        71.4 per CPU           *
  * SPECthruput89 (est.)  N/A        N/A        109        218          *
  * MIPS                  86.1       96.2       200+       400+         *
  * Mflops (DP)           10.6       17.2       38         76           *
  * TPS (estimated)       100        120        180        220          *
 

> 	Greg Koolbeck
> 	Unix Systems Attitude Adjuster
> 	NASA/GSFC 

________________________________________
/ Tomas Pihl
/ ELLEMTEL Telecom Systems Lab, Sweden
/ email:   etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se
From: alan@uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why consider an Amiga? [A stoned Mac user wants to know]
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:00 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:

>In article <84082@ut-emx.uucp>, ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
> > Here are a couple of questions (Flames OK)
> > 
> > 1:  What is the difference between programming on a Mac or an Amiga?

>Depends how you program...  Never programmed a mac, but I hear the user interface
>is a bitch to get right...


Hearsay makes the world go around.  WHY!!! do people insist on
commenting at all without direct knowledge.  

I have developed a Hypertext Word Processor for both the Amiga
and the Mac (THINKER).  I have experience.  I can tell you that I 
found the Mac not much different from the Amiga.  Not at all.  But, 
I am looking at it from a perspective that includes complex development
on more that 10 Operation systems.  When compressed on that scale
the two are "identical", just different.  Same event driven model
with some good and bad ideas in both.
-- 
Alan Bomberger     | (408)-992-2748  | alan@uts.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corporation | Opinions are free, worth it, and not Amdahl's

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy