From: km34@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Keith Moulton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What is culture? (was: Brainwashied
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:30:30 GMT
Reply-To: km34@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Keith Moulton)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <7568@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>=> In article <7566@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> 
>=> blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>=> >> [...]
>=> >The discussion about whether or not particular cultures are better
>=> >than others is somewhat interesting, however, I wish that in this
>=> >discussion, the participants might be more careful so as to separate
>=> >what are truly cultural elements from other aspects of society
>=> >that are economic or perhaps technological when making such
>=> >comparisons. Advances in medicine, and such, for example, 
>=> >are societal... not cultural. 
>
>In article <1ick7cINN5m0@shelley.u.washington.edu>, 
>yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>=> Thanks, this is a good point.  Since this thread started out as
>=> a discussion on women's role in society, I assumed "culture" to
>=> be "something like the former", but "societal" elements have 
>=> crept into the discussion.
>=> 
>=> Having said that however, I suppose it is possible for a "societal"
>=> element to induce a totally new pure "cultural" element. In such
>=> a case, one cannot even begin to compare two cultures (one with
>=> and one without the "societal" element) because there is nothing
>=> to compare.
>
>Sorry, but I beg to differ. There's a lot to compare about cultures,
>but whether one is better or worse is rarely one of them.

	Yes, I agree.  Adopting a stance of cultural relativism is helpful
at getting past natural biases, but... If push comes to shove, I think
it is possible to talk about one culture being better than another, although
it is largely academic and not particularly practical.  It also gives
insecure folks ammunition to disparage people unlike themselves.  It is
more productive to make observations which are not couched in comparisons,
ie. "Country J is more racist than country U" is less productive than saying
"Country J is racist because of reasons blah, blah, blah."

    [Lots of good stuff omitted]

>
>Unfortunately, racism and xenophobia have almost been universally
>a part of most cultures at one time or another, certainly not
>excluding recent Western and World history.

	Why don't you mention sexism?

	[more good stuff about recent American racist attitudes]

I believe that some rights of people are unalienable and that they are
born with these rights.  When a culture takes these rights away from
some of its people, it is worthy of criticism.  And even if one racist
country calls another country racist, the truth (or untruth) of the statement
is not affected by its origin.  (Just because the pot called the kettle
black, doesn't mean that the kettle isn't black.)
	For example, the ancient Mayans had a highly refined, harmonious
culture, worthy of our fascination and even respect.  However, the frequent
sacrifices of humans, particularly children, by having their hearts ripped
out while they were alive is to me worthy of criticism.  The Mayans believed
that there culture would become chaotic if the gods were not appeased by
these sacrifices.
    In Japan, men control the cultural apparatus by which women decide
their future and happiness.  I'm not saying that Japanese women aren't
happy--I'm saying that they don't have many choices, and that for some
women, their right to pursue happiness has been abridged.
	I don't think I am being too quick to judge--the status of women
in Japan has been well documented.  In my travels to Japan, I did not
meet any unhappy, bitter women--but neither did I find any willing to
question their lot.  But I'm sure they're out there.
>
>I guess I wouldn't be so quick to put down a people wholesale,
>even if many members display basically the same attitudes 
>as my parents or grandparents did.
>
>- Bill Lambert
>
>PS - As I looked at the list of cultural points or desires
>as I wrote about, I noticed that in America these days, we
>are quite far from a consensus on how to achieve most of
>them. It's seems to be important to our overall well-being
>as a culture to have that consensus. Don't you think so?

	Yes, but we're going to be OK.  I think that what most Americans
want is a culture that is multicultural.  It's really hard to come
up with a consensus in such a situation.
	Limited relativism is the way to go.  Gotta go.
Keith Moulton.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan