HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fms@sw.stratus.com (Faith Senie)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: RECIPE: (LACTO-VEG) Saturn Stew
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:21:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr16.193940.1009@helios.physics.utoronto.ca>, 
murty@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (MURTY  Hema Sandhyarani) writes:
>       ...
> 	On a related note, I have been looking for ricotta cheese
> 	at most supermarkets and can't seem to find it.  Is it
> 	only available in health food stores?
>

Assuming you're referring to regular, every-day (i.e. non-vegan) kind of ricotta,
it should be in the dairy case, next to things like sour cream, cottage cheese,
yogurt, etc., or at least that's where I find it in my local supermarket.
It is packaged in a container similar to that for either sour cream or cottage
cheese.

-- 
Faith M. Senie            InterNet: fms@vos.stratus.com
Stratus Computer, Inc.    InterNet: fms@hoop.sw.stratus.com
55 Fairbanks Blvd.       Pkt Radio: n1jit@ka1srd.ma.usa.na
Marlboro, MA 01752           Phone: (508)460-2632

"I'm afraid I don't know very much about Romulan Disruptor settings" --Spock
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:54:45 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Apr15.110428.5156@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
> 
> My mother in law is rather poor, and I know the troubles she had
> getting her Goan Cookery book published. She added a vegetarian/vegan
> section in her second edition because of her daughter and myself.
> I would never repost her recipes, even though she is so kind she wouldn't
> mind. Many of these authors are battling to make a living, reposting
> their recipes undermines that existence.
> 

Well, could we please have information on how to order this cookbook?
You keep mentioning that there are great recipies in it- if we send
along the cost of the shipping will she (or the publishing company)
ship to the U.S. ?  Does she take U.S. dollars? 

-Mary Howard
From: deej@gorilla.nbn.com (Donna Corner Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 12:18:48 PDT
Organization: Summary Insight

michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan) writes:

> [It's interesting, though, that even growing up on a farm where the
> animals were treated well, I end up a vegetarian.  I believe it has
> more to do with the period when my folks were raising rabbits for
> fur and meat, however.  Killing those poor bunnies just broke my
> heart, and at the age of 13 I remember a very tense day when I
> refused to help butcher the rabbits.  I ended up with a sore butt
> and angry parents, but I never had to help kill a rabbit again.]
> -- 

Funny, that's what got me as a kid, too.  My mother used to make rabbit
stew for my father and I just absolutely refused to eat it.  That's when
I began to understand what meat was.  I overcame my distaste for meat 
for several years, unfortunately, but I never did eat rabbit. My son wants
to eat meat every once in awhile and I remember the incident with the 
rabbit stew, and I almost wish he could get the same kind of lesson somehow.



***********************************************************************
Donna Corner Holmes (deej@gorilla.nbn.com)
Summary Insight (Deposition Summaries) - San Rafael, CA  (415) 488-1659
***********************************************************************
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 1992 13:07:30 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Vegetarianism and Environmentalism


Hi,

At Carnegie Mellon University, CMU Vegetarians, in conjunction with
other groups, is planning a large Earth Day Celebration for the week
around April 20-26.

We are setting up an information table where we are going to give out
information about the connection between diet-style and the environment
(essentially show people the damaging consequences of a meat-based diet.)

Can anyone on this list help me out by forwarding ALL information they
have on the vegetarian-environmental connection to my account:

dm3o@andrew.cmu.edu

The more specific the information the better.

Also, I would like the phone number of the WorldWatch Institute, so that
I can call them and try to get their information on how much water per
pound of meat.  (I know it's 2500 gallons/lb., but I'm looking for more
specifics, for example how they got to that information.)

Thank you.

David McWade
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie *banjo* Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Tofu bacon recipe?
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:19:13 GMT

In article <92096.223602SF1MSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET> SF1MSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>Could someone please post or forward a copy of the tofu bacon recipe that was
>posted several weeks ago.  I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
>Thanks in advance.
> 
>SEAN  (sf1msanu@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu)


I just happen to have a copy of the original posting, I haven't tried
the recipe yet, but I hope to soon.

Article 13979 of rec.food.veg:
labs!hpl-opus!hpcc05!hpcuhb!hpindda!gph
From: gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tofu Bacon YOU WON'T BELIEVE!!
Date: 25 Feb 92 00:39:15 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

Tofu that tastes like bacon?  Yes!!!!

You have to try this, you won't believe it.

If you have tried "Fakin' Bacon" and other tempeh based bacon substitutes
on the market, and been dissappointed, don't worry, you are not alone.
However, recently I came across this totally vegan dish that tastes EXACTLY
LIKE BACON.  It is unbelievable.   You have to try it!!!

Ingredients:

1.  1 lb firm Tofu, cut into strips shaped like bacon
2.  2 tablespoons nutritional yeast
3.  2 tablespoons tamari/shoyu
4.  1 teaspoon Wright's (or other brand) liquid smoke.
5.  1 tablespoon oil (something neutral, not olive or sesame)

Fry tofu strips on low or medium heat until they are crispy on the
outside.   The best way to do this is to lay them in the pan in the
oil and let them sit for at least 10 minutes, simmering.   They should
turn easily after that.   Turn them and give them another 10 minutes on
the other side.

Mix the tamari/shoyu soy sauce with the liquid smoke first,
then take the pan off the heat.  Pour the liquid smoke/tamari
into the pan and stir the tofu so all sides are coated, then sprinkle
the yeast over all, stir some more, over the heat, until the liquid is
gone and the tofu is covered with sticky yeast.

Try it.   It tastes EXACTLY like bacon.

Another variation is to marinate the tofu in the tamari/liquid smoke
mixture for several hours and then fry, but it misses a little bit
without the nutritional yeast.
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:24:02 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr8.183428.3224@psych.toronto.edu> michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.124928.1383@acsu.buffalo.edu> riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer) writes:
>
>>Also, you need to distinguish between the "beef industry" and
>>the "dairy industry."  They are not one in the same.  You may
>>still come to the same conclusion, but be careful about
>>your reading and thinking on this one.
>
>As someone noted earlier, "where do the boy calves go?"  For that matter,
>where do the "old" dariy cows go?
>
>While it is true that the dairy industry is not identical to the beef
>industry, they *are* interlocked.  It is hypocricy (or lack of thought
>or information) to be morally against killing cows, and yet support
>the dairy industry.
>

The  UK  placed  a  ban  on  veal  crates  several years ago. At first this
seemed  like  a  good  idea,  but now it transpires that calves less than a
week  old  are  shipped  to  Holland  and  placed in veal crates there. The
calves  are  eventually  shipped  back  to the UK, this time in the form of
dinner.

This  has  all  come  about  because  of  an  *increased*  desire for dairy
products,  especially  due  to  the  large  numbers of UK teenagers turning
vegetarian.


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: FUN STUFF: Great Political Cartoon
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:46:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Ok... I thought all you vegetarians would like this one.  Here
in Buffalo we have the pleasure of having one of the country's
top political cartoonists by the name of Tom Toles.  You may
know of him since he received a Pulitzer prize last year for
his political cartooning. 

Well... I opened up the political pages of the Buffalo News
the other day, and he had a great one that I thought you
moral/ethical/health-concerned veggie types would really
enjoy.  Ok, Ok, imagine the following picture:

	There's a butcher and his meat counter.  In the window
	are lots of cuts of meat.  On the wall, just over the
	butcher's shoulder is one of those "meat cut diagrams"
	-- you know... a flat drawing of a beef carcass, with various
	cuts of meat drawn in.  Normally, the sections would be
	labeled with terms like "rump, rib, brisket," etc.  But
	(and this is the great part), instead, the terms in each
	section are things like: rainforest, pesticides, heart
	disease, etc.  

	Now, there's a customer in the frame who is looking over
	the offerings and the diagram on the wall.  The customer
	says, "Maybe I'll just take the asparagus."

See.... thought you'd like that.  And you thought we omnivores
had no sense of humor!  Ha!

Later,

Carol
A lurking omnivore
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.veg
Date: 17 Apr 92 07:35:41 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr16.213720.23062@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie writes:
>Michael Traub writes:
>
>>Aw,  cmon  Dave, Carol (the lurking omnivore) has already explained
>>that it all  has  to  do with the eskimos getting their little
>>tootsies cold in the winter. Diet apparently plays no part whatsoever.
>
>And you're saying you haven't been inflammitory.  Shame, shame, shame.
>
Not towards Carol until she started on me. Check the headers Charlie.



-- 
   "This isn't an argument, you're just contradicting me!"  "No I'm not."
   
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu (Jim Mccoy)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Is there a doctor in the house?
Keywords: net.health.advice.risky.risky.risky
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:19:57 GMT
Reply-To: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences


A few recent articles (other than M.T.'s "it's my newsgroup go away" BS)
have begun to worry me regarding nutritional information and rec.food.veg. 

One example that comes to mind is the recent suggestions for guidelines for
r.f.v.

In article <5458.29eacb9d@hayes.com>, msieweke@hayes.com writes:
> 
> 3. Don't expect your doctor to agree with r.f.v.  Most of them don't have
> significant training in diet and nutrition.  The field of nutrition changes
> yearly with new research.

Other articles recently relating to nutrition and the vegan/vegetarian diet
have begun to take the tone of: "Don't trust your doctor, he is a paid
lackey of the meat/dairy industry;  we on the net know the true path to
health and you should trust us."  This is very, very wrong. 

NEVER ENTRUST YOUR HEALTH TO INFORMATION YOU READ FROM THE NET.

Doctors and nutritionists are required to complete educational program and
are tested to establish their proficiency and knowledge of the information
they are giving you.  A posting is not a trustworthy message (either in
message authentication or establishing user identity) regardless of the
condition.  

If you inform your doctor/nutritionist about your dietary restrictions they
should be able to work within the boundary you suggest, and if they are
unable it is certain that the net is capable of providing leads to other
nutritionist who are adept at providing for your restrictions.  Some
nutritionists may be slow in adapting to the restrictions of
vegan/vegetarian diets, but they should be able to get information if you
request it and will probably have your health as their agenda and not
profit (buy my book, buy our product, eat oat bran or die a painful death
from colon cancer, etc..) or politics (eat more meat, don't eat meat, be a
vegan, etc...). Only follow dietary advice from someone who is at least
accountable for their actions in this regard.

If you follow foolish advice from a doctor you are a victim of malpractice.
If you follow foolish advice from the net you are just plain stupid.

jim
-- 
------------------------------< Jim McCoy >------------------------------------
j-mccoy@nwu.edu                     |  "I'd love to stay and chat, but I'm
mccoy@ils.nwu.edu                   |   having an old friend for dinner..."
#include <disclaimer.h>             |              -Dr. Hannibal Lector
-----------------------<"To thine own self be true">--------------------------
From: Kamchatka Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Antiargument & bickering. Was: A suggestion for rec.food.recipes
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:29:53 GMT
Organization: (new name coming soon)


>Richard Wilmot writes:

>... my r.f.v KILL file seems to grow without bound. It also doesn't
>work well when people are careless with the subject lines which seems
>to occur more often with less informative debate?

Two suggestions from one who's observed the r.g.v.a killfile problems with
Street Fighter 2:
     A) Try poster name instead of subject, if your kill file accepts those.
     B) Try editing the kill file.  I'm sure many subject names on it are now
out-of-date; and removing them would make the kill file more efficient.

BTW:  I don't believe in kill files myself; but some people seem to find them
helpful.
     And sorry about the spelling mistakes.

kamchatka charlie
KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 1992 12:55:07 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Diabetes and Vegetarianism (was re: Vegetarians and Missionaries.)

	>(While one might be going awfully far to say that the "ideal"
	>diabetic diet is vegetarian, it is true that the ideal tends
	>toward low to moderate meat consumption.)

	>Overweight leads to greater risk of developing diabetes,
	>and so for a non-diabetic fat intake may be of greater
	>concern in terms of avoiding diabetes.  But for a person
	>who already has is, sugar is generally more significant than
	>fat.

	>This is not meant as a major flame, but is merely intended
	>to correct misinformation.  The actual details of what
	>and what not diabetics should eat is a bit far removed
	>from the original point of minding one's own business
	>(I am inclined to agree that you shouldn't yank any
	>food out of another person's mouth, whether it is fatty
	>or sweet or both :-)).  But if folx must go off on tangents
	>the info should be correct.

You seem so sure of yourself.  Yet in many cases (~75%) diabetics (who
need insulin therapy) who are restricted to an extremely low-fat diet
(20 to 30 grams, or about *7-10 percent fat*, which is almost impossible
to achieve on a non-vegetarian diet) are able to discontinue the insulin
injections.  Diabetes is RARE or NONEXISTENT among people whose diets
are primarily grains, vegetables, or fruits.

A scientific study involving 25000 people for 21 years found that
vegetarians have a much lower risk of diabetes than meat-eaters.  Dr.
David Snowden summarized the findings:

"We suspect it is the abscence of meat that may explain our findings. 
In this study we looked at various levels of meat consumption, and as
those levels got lower and lower, the risk of diabetes also decreased."

"Low to moderate meat consumption" just doesn't cut it.  YOUR info
should be correct.

A reduction to 20-25 percent fat will, I imagine, have half the positive
effect of a reduction to 7-10 percent fat for diabetics.

Further details (which I don't have time to expand upon) are available
in Diet For A New America, which Rich Young refuses to read,  on pages
275-278.  The sources which Robbins uses for the diabetes include the
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Lancet, etc.  (Look it up
yourself.)

David McWade
From: biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu (Timothy J. Biehler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians and Missionaries
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:30:43 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <EduZ2i600WAuIMJUY5@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>
>>  OK, ___just_for_purposes_of_this_discussion___, what would YOU have used to
>>  refute the following inaccuracy...or don't you consider it to be inaccurate?
>>  As above, I'll leave the gentleman's name off to prevent his further
>>  embarrassment at such a display of ignorance.
>
>>     "I think this is particularly ironic because diabetes is more aggravated
>>     (and caused) by fat intake (particularly animal fat intake), than sugar
>>     intake.  A vegetarian (vegan) diet is probably the best thing for a
>>     diabetic or person interested in not getting diabetes in the future."
>
>Rich, unless you can prove that a diet that is EXTREMELY low in fat is
>not the best thing for a diabetic, I suggest you shut up, or not make
>innuendo to the supposed "inaccuracy" of my post.
>
>Thank you.
>
>David McWade

	David, unless you can prove that a large invisible pteradactyl
	is not hovering over your head at this very instant, I suggest
	that you not controvert my claim that this is in fact the case.

	Rich's sarcasm may have gotten the better of him, but your
	claim is dangerous.  An extremely low fat diet is of questionable
	value to a diabetic.  It may have advantages, but it may have
	equally serious disadvantages. But let's not dispute that,	
	for your claim that diabetics should best be vegans is not
	where the true bullshit lies.

	Your claim that diabetes is more aggravated by fat intake
	than sugar intake is, well, let's be generous and say it's
	just controversial.  Ask *any* diabetes professional and they	
	will tell you that while fat intake is factor to be watched,
	it's not nearly as important as watching simple sugar intake.
	Or better yet, get two diabetics, feed one a diet high in
	simple sugar but low in fat, and feed the other a high fat
	diet.  Hell, make it all saturated fat if you like.  And see
	who gets sick quicker.

Tim Biehler
*******************************************************************************
* "I'm too sexy for my cat,		*				      *
*	I'm too sexy for my hat!	*  Tim Biehler			      *
*  I'm too sexy for my car,		*  biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu	      *
*	I'm more sexy than you are!"	*  V116jugp@ubvms.buffalo.edu	      *
*	  	-- Dr. Seuss            * 				      *
*******************************************************************************
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LEATHER
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:08:09 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <RJC.92Apr11012347@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk> rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley) writes:
>The whole idea of getting rid of all pets is horrible if you ask me. I
>would have little problem with a purely vegetarian society, a vegan
>one would be inconvinient but survivable, however a society without
>cats would hardly _be_ a society.
>
Well as an owner of 12 cats in my lifetime I can appreciate what
you mean, but how do we control their ever increasing numbers?
We are responsible for the hundreds incinerated every day.

And what about the genetic engineering being performed on these
creatures in the form of selective breeding. That's hardly natural
is it? And do we just refuse to feed them meat and let them catch
their own, is that fair? I've  had some fairly useless cats in my
time, about the best they could ever manage was a snail.

>Just call me an anti-human bigot, I think people need that leavening
>of feline stability.
>
I weaned myself off them:-)


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: ac@apmaths.uwo.ca (alka chandna)
Subject: Re: need list of famous vegetarians
Organization: Applied Mathematics, University of Western Ontario
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:45:58 GMT

In article <338@bit.UUCP> lisa@bit.UUCP (Lisa Lowell) writes:


>Hi!
>This is my first post to rec.food.veg.  I need the net wisdom.  I have just
>recently joined the Portland Vegetarians and have been volunteered to help
>plan next years Great American Meat Out.  I need some ideas and I need to find
>the list of famous vegetarians.  If anyone has a copy of the list and can send
>it to me that would be great!  What did everyone do this year for the Great
>American Meat Out?
>                 Thanks in advance,
>                                 Lisa
Hi Lisa, 
	Congratulations on your work in Portland.  I received a list of 
famous vegetarians from the Farm Animal Reform Movement (Bethesda, MD), so 
perhaps you could try writing to them.  I've got the list at home; perhaps i'
ll post it later.  Here in London, Ontario (Canada), we had planned a parade 
downtown where people were encouraged to dress as their favourite famous 
vegetarian.  For a variety of reasons the parade was postposed to the 
summer, but in preparation for it, we lined up Gandhi, Schweitzer, Madonna, 
Kate Bush, Kate Pierson, Chrissie Hynde, G.B. Shaw, Frankenstein, Alice 
Walker, and a bunch of others.  We even have a Bob Barker, so we thought 
that we would make Miss America style banners proclaiming the name of the 
veggie celeb (easy recognition).  Also, we made a huge banner with some kind 
of slogan eluding to the proud legacy of cool vegetarians.  I can't wait 
until we actually do it in the summertime.  The media in London is more than 
a little hostile to animal rights groups (ours is the University of Western 
Ontario Students for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), and unless we do 
something that's so "in your face", we don't get any coverage.
Best of luck to you in all of your good efforts,
alka
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cfb@thinksnow.EBay.Sun.COM (Cynthia Beckett)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Roasted Peppers
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:10:40 GMT
Reply-To: cfb@thinksnow.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: thinksnow.ebay.sun.com

I've seen them in the section with olives. They're fairly expensive and easy
to make yourself. Clean and slice a red pepper into strips or thin circles.
Spread on a non-stick baking pan and brush on a little olive oil. Bake
in a 450 degree oven for several minutes. I don't have an exact timing for
this, I just wait until they look "roasted".

-CB
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:59:12 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dairy Farms and Cows



 >Well, the original poster, if I remember correctly, is an ethical vegan,
>who wondered if Ben & Jerry's ice cream should be welcome at a vegetarian
>day festival--or something like that.

No, it was Earth Day.  I am concerned in this instance with the possible
hypocrisy of environmentalists supporting an industry which is
indirectly linked to the beef industry, and thus supporting an industry
that is ecologically unsound.  (The dairy industry doesn't win any
awards for ecology, either.)

I am a vegan for ecological reasons as well as ethical ones, and also
health reasons (also economic ones, although I wish I had more evidence
about that.)

David McWade