From: liljeber@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Mika Liljeberg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: NJ/SML
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:35:16 GMT
	<KETIL.92Sep29143043@spurv.ii.uib.no>
	<1992Sep29.203910.2837@odin.diku.dk> <3748@eastman.UUCP>
	<LILJEBER.92Sep30221336@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
	<KETIL.92Oct1014532@spurv.ii.uib.no>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki, Finland

In article <KETIL.92Oct1014532@spurv.ii.uib.no> ketil@spurv.ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde) wrote:
> In article <LILJEBER.92Sep30221336@klaava.Helsinki.FI> liljeber@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Mika Liljeberg) writes:
> 
>    Reasons for:
> 
>    o	Splitting c.o.l to several subgroups would save some
> 	   people the bother of learning to use a modern threading
> 	   newsreader.
> 
> I hardly think this is a very accurate account...

Feel free to correct any obvious inaccuracies.

>    o	A lot of people are following this group via mail digests.
> 
>    o	A lot of people are getting c.o.l through Fido-net. I'm told
> 
> OK, if this would mean leaving out a significant part of the linux
> community, I agree with you.

I note that you edited out the part commenting on the difficulties
involved with mail digests and Fido-net. I suppose it made your
statement look better...

The way I see it, it is a question of a slight convenience for the
majority against a great inconvenience for a minority. The people
reading c.o.l through digests and Fido-net are _already_ worse off
than the rest of us. Why make their lot even worse?

>    o	A lot of people _can_ use threading newsreaders and a great
> 	   many of them actually _like_ having it all in a single group
> 	   (I'm one of these people).
> 
> But you're not egotistical, like me, right?

My, my! Taking it personally, are you? :-)

>  And don't tell me I can't
> use a threading newsreader, because I do.  But when it takes my
> newsreader minutes to download the stuff from my nntp host, and then
> even longer to sort it all out, I do get slightly annoyed.  And yes,
> maybe it is a sh*tty server, a sh*tty network, a sh*tty computer, but
> I can't change that.  And a lot of people have worse hardware than me.

Including those, who have to grab their news through digests and Fido.
You're arguing my case here! :-)

> And I, and I suspect many with me, only have interest in a few of the
> topics in the group.

Indeed? Then it should be easy to select those few topics from a list of headers.

> And I don't have the time to browse through several hundred articles
> every day (maybe slightly exaggerated?  But there's a lot.)

A bit over a hundred on busy days. Certainly on the hefty side, but not too bad.

> And everybody knows kill files don't work. :-) (Well, not well enough, anyway)
> 
>    o	Several prominent people in this newsgroup (including Linus
> 	   himself) have rather clearly stated that they prefer c.o.l
> 	   they way it is. We should listen to these people, because they
> 
> I have a feeling you'd like to include yourself here? :-)  (Sorry
> about that)

No need to apologize. Your barb missed entirely. No bubbles burst. :-)

> 	   (Anyone who considers him/herself a prominent person in c.o.l
> 	   and disagrees with the views expressed is invited to comment :-)
> 
> For the record, I'm not a 'prominent person' (Who defines this?  You?)

Heh, I would have thought the term 'prominent person' does not require
definition. There is a relatively small number of people, who contribute
to Linux more than the rest of us together. Several names immediately
come to mind. If you draw a blank here, you're not really a Linux fan.

> Hell, I don't even run linux anywhere...

And you propose to split c.o.l for the convenience of the "majority"?

>    I can see the attraction of splitting c.o.l into neatly cathegorized
>    subgroups, but I also like to think that I'm not so egoistic as to
> 
> (by doing it the way you don't prefer, anyway)

The preference is slight. I could go either way, myself. Truly.

>    leave a bunch of people out in the cold, because of personal convenience.
> 
> Yeah, it's just me.  Me and perhaps a few more....but I agree with you
> there. 

Good.

> BTW, why is it so difficult to get new groups into fidonet?  How many
> are affected?  Email, please.

I'll leave this to the fidonet people. They know more about it anyway.
Patience, though. It takes some time for news to trickle down through
fidonet.

> --
>  = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no =
>  = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =


	Mika


--
Mika Liljeberg			Email:	liljeber@hydra.Helsinki.FI
Helsinki University			Mika.Liljeberg@Helsinki.FI
Dept. of Computer Science