From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:22:42 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Sep15.193506.4003@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <adams.716569269@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>>So why didn't God make a world with the rule "sacrifices in ancient times,
>>>no sacrifices now"?  What he really did, according to you, was make a world
>>>where sacrifices were needed both then and now, and then kludge around the
>>>latter by sending Jesus to get rid of the "now" part.  A rather roundabout
>>>method.  Why didn't he just make the world without it to begin with?
>>The basic answer to this is, I don't know.  I can't begin to explain this.

I think if you read closely in the Old Testament, you will see that the
sacrifical system was not what gained acceptance in God's sight - remember
David said in Psalm 51, after he had committed adultery, that God did
not delight in burnt offerings or sacrifices, but He looked for a broken
and contrite heart.  The prophet Micah said this

   Micah 6:7   Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten
      thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
      the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
   Micah 6:8   He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD
      require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with
      your God.

In these verses you see that the offerings were not what God desired, but
a man who truly followed/walked with God.

>I hope you understand why I'm asking the question, though.

I think so.

>I'm not just asking it out of idle curiosity.  Some things grow on trees and
>some on vines, but I don't go around asking why God didn't make watermelon
>trees.
>
>The reason I ask is because making a world whose rules require a Jesus to
>forgive sin has several notable _dis_advantages.

God wants all men to come to him.  It is by his mercy that we aren't 
consumed now.  His kindness leads us to repentance.

>If God had made a world where he could just wave his divine hands to forgive
>sin, there would be an important difference between that world and one where
>he restricted himself so he had to send Jesus: to be saved in the latter world,
>you have to believe something, and to be saved in the former, you don't.

God could have waved His hand, but he didn't and we have the capability
to follow what God has revealed, if we want.  One can believe Jesus was
who the Scriptures claim, without seeing Him, in fact, he said to Thomas,
"blessed are you for you saw and have believed, but blessed are those
who do not see and believe."

>I, and many people, simply am incapable of believing certain things which
>don't make sense to me.  I just _can't_ believe; and I can't force myself to
>believe.  There is no way I can get sins forgiven under the Jesus version of
>the world, only under the other one; God's decision to make a world where he
>has to send Jesus, has the end result that a lot of people go to Hell because
>of their lack of capacity for belief, something completely beyond their control.

To be frank/honest, man's PRIDE is what keeps him from believing.  Man loves
to work for things and there is NO AMOUNT of work one can do here to merit
salvation - it is a gift of God and is by faith to those who believe, so no
man can boast.

>There are also lots of secondary consequences.  If you don't have to believe to
>be saved, there's no need for proselytization, or religious wars, or crusades.
>There would be no religious intolerance.  This would be a big change.

Jesus told us the gate was narrow and few find it - I wish there were
more, but man generally doesn't want to accept the simple truth of Jesus 
the Christ and His work paying the way to God - the only way is Jesus
and the Father said "this is beloved Son, in whom I'm well pleased."

>"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
>the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
>disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler
>
>Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
>     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)

Here are several passages/comment on the difference between the Old
and New Testaments and the purpose of the OT systems.

Paul, in Colossians 2:16-17, says we are to "let no one judge us 
in what we eat or drink, with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon 
celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that WERE 
TO COME; THE REALITY, HOWEVER, IS FOUND in Christ."  Paul also says that 
one man honors one day above the others and another honors all days alike - 
whatever he does he does unto God (Rom 14:5-6.) Scripture is written as men 
speak moved by the Holy Spirit. Paul says no one is justified by observing 
the law, but by faith in Jesus.

In I Cor 1, Paul discusses the wisdom of God and of the world and what
the world is looking for.  He says that God in His wisdom saw fit to
bring about salvation through the foolishness of the cross (Christ 
crucified.) The world in its wisdom, which is different from God's wisdom,
was confounded, because of the simplicity of this "belief in the cross"
approach to God.  Paul says the Jews seek a sign and the Greeks (non-Jews)
seek wisdom, but we (Christians) preach Christ crucified, a stumbling 
block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles (non-Jews.)

Jesus said he came note to abolish but to fulfill - 
which is to say he came to complete the law.  

The following verses illuminate this - read all
of Hebrew 7-10, if you are interested.

   Heb 7:11   If perfection could have been attained through the 
     Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to
     the people), why was there still need for another priest to
     come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
   Heb 7:12   For when there is a change of the priesthood, there
     must also be a change of the law.

In Hebrews 8:1-13 (note verses 5-8 and 13,) we see the scarifical system
being a shadow of things to come, but the ministry Jesus has received
is superior than the "old one", and it is founded on better promises.  A
new covenant was needed bacause God found fault with the people. Verses
8-12 are quoted from the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:30-34.) God says he
will make a new covenant.  Verse 13, by calling this covenant "new" he
has made the first one obsolete, which is aging and will soon disappear.
Hebrews 10:9 - He set aside the first to establish the second.

   Heb 8:6   But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to
     theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to
     the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
   Heb 8:7   For if there had been nothing wrong with that first
     covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
   Heb 8:8   But God found fault with the people and said : "The time
     is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant
     with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

   Heb 8:13   By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one
     obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
   Heb 9:1   Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and
     also an earthly sanctuary.

   Heb 10:5   Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
     "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you
     prepared for me;
   Heb 10:6   with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not
     pleased.
   Heb 10:7   Then I said, 'Here I am--it is written about me in
     the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"
   Heb 10:8   First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt
     offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you
     pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made).
   Heb 10:9   Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your
     will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.

I pray this helps.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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