HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osystems@world.std.com (Cary T Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: SHURE SM-58's Does anyone still use them???????
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:02:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: world.OSYSTEMS.92Apr11130232
Distribution: rec.audio.pro
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


I have been following this group for the past few months with
a great deal of interest. Most of the discussions on the topic
of mic's ahve centered around exotic high priced models. This
is great though it leads me to this question:

Does anyone still use Shure SM-58(Ice Cream Cone) mic's for
live sound support?

When I was working with live acts we would often experiment
with a mic from EV or AKG or some new type of mic technology
and we would always end up replacing them with a good old
trusty Shure.

Here are the reasons:

	1. Indestructable
		I still have *all* of my old mic's(all of the
		other equipment was sold) and the Shures look
		like hell but are all strong, clear and reek
		of beer....
	2. Gain
		Though other mic's had better performance
		curves, the Shures just performed better
		live. They seemed to support vocals well
		even if act was KISS and guitar amps would
		have a tendancy to swamp the vocal mic's.

	3. Friendly
		This is sort of wierd and *is* pure 
		opinion but, the performers were never
		put off by these. I remember putting up
		a AKG(forgot the model) and it looked a
		bit odd. The performer wouldn't use it
		because he said it sounded weird(he never
		even tried it).

Any way, let me know what you live sound support people are using
these days.

CC

**********************************************************
*
*    CAPTAIN BEYOND is the best act I heve ever seen or
*    worked with ever!
*                         EVER
**********************************************************
From: v125kjg8@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Curtis R. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Miking a Snare with a '57
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:43:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <54814@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt3281c@prism.gatech.EDU (TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER) writes...
>>>       I don't recommend changing the phase of a microphone by rewiring it
>>>internally.  Instead, wire up a simple adaptor and 'cross wire' the signals
>>>in question.  This way, the phase on any mic can be easily reversed without
>>>creating a "special" mic.  
> 
>>How would one go about doing this?  Just swapping the signal in the XLR
>>connector?  Would that work properly?
> 
>    Yes. 
>     I have several "phase reversal" cables, ...

Or use the male to female connectors that are 2-3" long.  Some can come
prewired 1-1, 3-2, and 2-3; others are sold unwired and you would do it
yourself.  Check a catalog from ITT Cannon, Switchcraft, or Neutrik and check
out who can sell them in your area.  I know that Switchcraft has had these
connectors available.  Or go with the phase reverasl cables mentioned in the
previous article.

The male to female connectors probably would work best between two cable
lengths, though; I wouldn't want a connector hanging off the back of the mike
or mixer board, waiting for some drunk clod to brush the connector, breaking
the console connector on the mixer or somesuch...

  --Curtis
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: brucer@oz.plymouth.edu (Bruce Ritchie)
Subject: Re: SHURE SM-58's Does anyone still use them???????
Reply-To: brucer@oz.plymouth.edu (Bruce Ritchie)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Distribution: rec.audio.pro
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:39:02 GMT

In article <OSYSTEMS.92Apr11130232@world.std.com> osystems@world.std.com (Cary T Conrad) writes:
>
>I have been following this group for the past few months with
>a great deal of interest. Most of the discussions on the topic
>of mic's ahve centered around exotic high priced models. This
>is great though it leads me to this question:
>
>Does anyone still use Shure SM-58(Ice Cream Cone) mic's for
>live sound support?

	For me, the answer is YES!

	Some of us don't have the money or time to go out and
experiment with the new breeds of mikes, and a solid workhorse like
the SM-58, for all the reasons you gave, still has appeal. I just got
done doing audio design for a stage musical, in a brand new theatre.
Most of my choice for mikes was determined by availability and the
need to have a `standard' against which to judge the new facility. I
chose a mix of SM-57's, SM-58's, and a couple of Senheiser MS421's. I
had to mike performers, and a live 11 piece pit band. Bottom line; It
worked. The sound was quite good, and the reviews from the audience
are all very favorable!

		brucer

-- 
		  (We excersise the `Oz-ian Option')
       "I can't give you brains, but I can give you a diploma."
		     ---------------------------
  Bruce T. Ritchie               "My employer can speak for itself.
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Help miking weird instrument
Keywords: acoustic, folk, Irish
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:59:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr8.184325.27524@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ddaye@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David C Daye) writes:
>I play the Irish uillean pipe, a quiet and very rare lap-bagpipe you might
>have seen/heard in the band The Chieftains.  If I'm  *very*  lucky, one
>of you might have worked for them on a tour.

I've not worked with The Chieftains nor ave I see the beast that ya
speak of but I'll offer me advice.

Oh I have done a good bit of work with ethnic ensembles.....Including
yer regular pipes.

I would suggest that you purchase a nice electret condenser microphone
and I will recommend the Shure 849.  This is a smooth sounding mic
with excellent off asis response. It also has a switch but don't use
it without the cooperation of the soundperson.  Convince him/her that you
will take charge of the on's-n-off's.

I would also suggest that you purchase your own mic stand and modify it for
the position that you need.  Get one of the Atlas MS-25's.  Its a heavy 
triangle based stand.

I would position the mic in the center of the array of pipes at an
equal distance from the spread of the pipes and the same distance from
the pipes.

This position will capture the balance of the sound from the pipes.
You can modify the position to get the proper balance if the starting
point isn't correct.

Because of the distance between the mic and the instrument the ability
to get much sound out of a monitor systen will be compromised.  The
fixed stand position can be tweeked for max level and that is what
you'll have to live with.  It really shouldn't be too bad unless uou
are doing fills for a loud band.......

I am sure that you could wire up the instrument have a sub mixer and
do it that way but I am sure that it won't meet your first objective,
to have the audience hear it like you do.

Setting yourself up off to the side of the band may help with leakage.

Also you could do what guitarists have been doing.  Put pick-ups on the
instrument and use that for the monitors and use the stand mic for the 
house only.

For pick-ups I would consider uni-directional electret capsules.

This is all shooting blind with suggestions.  I hope that you can work
it out.
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: How to record a clarinet ?
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:28:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.130902.26297@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:
>
>What do you do with those musicians who have a tendency to wildly swing the
>instrument back and forth?  Even in a large concert hall, this causes some
>tonal changes from the point of view of someone in the audience, and it's
>much worse with a fairly (ie. 15-20 ft) close-in microphone.


You do one of two things:

	- You either accept that change in tonal color as a part of the
	  performance, or...

	- You tell the musician beforehand, "Don't swing the clarinet
	  back and forth or else the recording is going to sound warbled.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Audioconferencing
From: Mike_Diack@kcbbs.gen.nz (Mike Diack)
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:33:45 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

I'm involved in sound reinforcement , and occasionally am called to 
do audioconferences via telephone links to various locations. There 
are precicely TWO Shure ST6000s in New Zealand - one has been lost by 
a courier and the other (which i use) goes on the fritz at the most 
embarrassing moments (chairman's address etc !) i have evolved a lifeboat 
system of a standard phone with break in 600/600 trannies in the earpiece 
and microphone circuits , driving a channel and driven from a foldback 
send on the desk,respectively. This system has got me out of the pooh 
on several occasions , but involves lots of on-the-fly fader wiggling. 
What i really need is a good hybrid , preferably electronic, not the 
fancy three winding tranny type .Any suggestions as to where i could 
find circuit details of such a device would be much appreciated.
cheers, Mike.

Organization: Music, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:42:40 -0400 
From: Riccardo Schulz <rs6k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Headphones for Monitoring Recording

I have a few favorites, but it all depends on what you have them plugged into!

Not every device will drive every set of headphones!

The AKG 141 or 240 are pretty good.  Sometimes I prefer the
less-expensive 141, but the 240 s have better isolation.  My favorite
all-around are the Sennheiser ...hmm, I forget the model no., but it is
just about the only one they make with isolated speakers.  They are a
bit pricey (over 100 bucks).  A standard that everyone uses is the Sony
MD 6 (I think that's it, or whatever it's current replacement is).  I
don't really care for them quality-of- sound-wise, but they are fairly
efficient and can be draiven by most consoles and DAT recorders, no
problem.  The AKG and Sennheisers are less efficient, and some headphone
jacks just knot have enough juice to make them loud enough [and we are
talking about classical music, not rock!]  If you have a headphone
pre=amp (such as the Rane HD 6) you will have no problem with any of the
above.  For early music, the Sennheiser (I think it's HD 40) would be my
choice.)
From: sowellrm@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Amp power rating/Monster cable questions
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:15:17 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Apr5.150633.3175@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, pwalczak@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Walczak) writes:
> In article <1992Apr1.163743.17519@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> gwg33762@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Garret W. Gengler) writes:
>>Howdy folks.  I've got a couple questions...
>>
> 
>>  with the green markers and those plastic ring weights... For the above
> 	    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^       
> 
> Hi.  I like to think that I'm not totally clueless but would someone mind
> sending me some email explaining this green marker business.  I've been 
> reading this group for a while and I just don't get it.
> 
> Paul "do what?" Walczak
> pwalczak@indiana.edu

Supposedly if you color the outside edge of your CDs with a green marker it
improves the sound quality.
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: awesome Klipschorns and speaker lifespan
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:27:26 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <11284@ksr.com> kenyee@ksr.com (Ken Yee) writes:
>jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
>>What does "audiophile" have to do with "rec.audio.pro"?   :')
>  Are you saying that professionals don't qualify as audiophiles ;-)?

I am paid to do sound work, people like what I do, I treat people in a
"professional" manner when I execute my duties as an "audio
Professional" so I call myself a professional as I feel that I have
earned the title. 8-)

I do not call myself an audiophile because that implies that I would
own "audiophile" type equipment and criticaly listen to audio.  I do
own equipment considered audiophile quality, I own a lot of equipment
that is PRO only.  I listen a LOT to audio, critically as I am
recording, editing, mastering, etc. ;-0  The concentration factor
working as a mix engineer is very high, and I believe different than
that of an audiophile's listening.  I have to be able to "hear" more
than the usual three things that the average listener can detect.  I
am forced to differentiate five or six different elements and
instantly switch beween the forground and the background elements of a
mix.

So am I a ProAudiophile?   NOT!!!! Damn I wish it was Friday......:-)


-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
From: kenyee@ksr.com (Ken Yee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: awesome Klipschorns and speaker lifespan
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:45:31 EDT

pwalczak@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Walczak) writes:
>a cult thing.  AND I've heard rumors that the Big Bassmonsters weren't 
>going to be made anymore....   So I guess what I'm saying is that even if
>you bought them and for whatever reason wanted to unload them, you probably
>wouldn't have a problem and you probably wouldn't even lose much money.
  Care to elaborate a bit about the rumor?  It sounds like a consideration...
>Paul "who was going to buy Klipsch until they turned plastic" Walczak
  Care to elaborate about this a bit more?  ----------^^^^^^^

 ken
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:37:21 GMT

In article <7APR199209510427@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.060616.5548@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, payam@landau (Payam Mirrashidi) writes...
>>In article <4233@gold.gvg.tek.com> chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen) writes:
>>A question along the same lines: How do you eq a kick so it sounds strong and
>>tight and not boomy.  

>*Personal* opinion ? Loose the RE20 and stick a 57 or even an MD-421 (yeah, 
>I *know* that they're delicate and not recommended for high SPLs, but I 
>*love* the way they sound on a kick and I haven't destroyed one yet...)  

Sennheiser MD-412.   Those suckers don't start distorting until you get
to about 150DB.   Delicate?  You should the ones we had in the studio
that kept getting hit by drum sticks when we miked a little close.

As to kicks - in the studio I wound up using only 1 mike to get the
full sound of the kick - that is a U-47.   And everyone seemed to like
it.

>>I guess any hints for miking a snare with SM57 would be appreciated too!

Don't!  :-) :-) :-)


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|ge-dab|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Help sought on choosing microphones
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center And Storm Door Company
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:56:28 GMT

In article <TONYB.92Apr7133251@titania.juliet.ll.mit.edu> tonyb@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Tony Berke ) writes:
>
>I just got a cut-sheet on the AT-4033 from Full Compass.  If AT isn't fudging
>the data, the off-axis response (60 degrees) that they publish is quite amazing.
>And the things are cheap as hell!  Kinda noisy, though.

They are definitely running this through the marketing department curve
flattening filter.  

I have had an SASS-P on evaluation for a while, and they aren't bad.  They
do tend to be more touchy about placement than the Crown folks said.  Personally
I have had better luck with the Crown PZMs in bad environments than any other
mikes, though.  It takes some fiddling to get a pair of the in just the right
position for reasonable imaging, but they work surprisingly well in some of the
worst venues.
--scott
From: rs6k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Riccardo Schulz)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Mic pre-amps
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:53:24 GMT
Organization: Music, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

We have John Hardy mic preamps; they are expensive but worth the price. 
they sound   

      G R E A T !

They are also made very well,  look inside and you'll see what I mean. 
What features do you look for?  Try it and see if you like it.  

Phantom power; good meters; balanced outputs; lots of headroom; low noise;

I could go on, but all I would do is list what john Hardy has done in
his piece.  By the way,m he has a really nifty way of doing the gain
structure--the variable resistor (pot) never needs to be used in its
extreme positions!

Riccardo Schulz
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:06:00 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <7APR199209510427@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison) writes:

>In article <1992Apr7.060616.5548@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, payam@landau 
(Payam Mirrashidi) writes...
>>In article <4233@gold.gvg.tek.com> chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen) writes:
>>A question along the same lines: How do you eq a kick so it sounds strong and
>>tight and not boomy.  

Stephen you have me attributed with the above comment.  I responded to
the original post but I have not yet responded to this post.

-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: gfl@hera.uucp (27223-lenahan)
Subject: Re: Amp power rating/Monster cable questions
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 21:03:56 GMT

(Neal P. Murphy) writes, referring to sonic effects of wire:
>
> There are subtle things that exist in wires, speakers and amps (capacitance,
> resistance, back-EMF) that can make for less-than-optimal sound. As a somewhat

Neal goes on to describe power loss across a wire's resistance.

But power loss, if linear, as a resistance would tend to be, will
have little effect on sound quality.

In addition, there are *small* differences in inductance and
capacitance, based on various materials and construction
techniques.  These effects lead to subtle frequency-shaping
behaviors of various wires, some fo which are desireable in
certain systems.  In addition, low-Z wires will tend to have
less system-dependency, and less of a sonic signature.

The above refers to "long, thin tone controls", one aspect
of a wire's sonics.  Another is the quality, or linearity,
of the (primarily capacitative) effect.  This is why teflon
(a very linear dialectric, DF / DA < .01 / .01%) is the
insulator of choice.  Regardless of the *magnatude* of a
reactive effect, the linearity of it, and thus its distortion,
primarily a "smearing", is determined by the DA / DF of the
dialectric.  This is generally more evident in LONG low-
level interconnects than in speaker wires.

In reality, these differences are subtle, but, I beleive,
real.  Clearly we can model the differences, but, given their
small magnitudes, the question is "can we hear them?".  For
pro (non-studio) use, I doubt it.  In good studio systems.
probably.

I'd be interested in anyone's reading of Dr. Brisson's recent
white paper, demonstrating the frequency dependent charecteristics
of several cables (including his, of course), based on their
"power factor"s.  I didn't have time to "curl up" with
thois paper and verify whether it was solid, or quasi-
BS, replete with non-continuous graphs and other tools of
the obfuscation trade.  Any filter-design types who've
really read it?

Just my $.02 on a topic which can come perilously close
to snake oil, but has some small basis in reality.

Grant
gfl@hera.cc.bellcore.com                                      

Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Recording Studio
Keywords: Multitrack
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center And Storm Door Company
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:52:22 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.155211.25775@bilver.uucp> bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.170543.8227@nic.unh.edu> dcm2@kepler.unh.edu (Tommy the Cat) writes:
>>
>>     Hello fellow net.people.edu  I have a slight predicament... I have 100,000
>>dollars to burn, and I/we (my band) want to open up a recording studio.
>>However, we are new around the music scene and equipment area.
>
>GET A CONSULTANT!!!!!  - don't think of spending serious money
>without doing that.

   Which is better, getting a short term consultant or hiring someone for the
long term?  I always thought hiring someone over a year or so was the best
bet, since there is always work to be done.

   There is a tremendous amount of used equipment out there, and it takes a
lot of work to find it, but it's worth the savings.  Analogue recording 
requires a lot of fine-tuning and a lot of tinkering to get the best sound,
and if you haven't even calibrated levels and bias before you are going to
need someone at least to show you what to do.

   I'm also going to put in a good word here for the custom-built board.  You
can get a board built that will meet your own personal specifications, and you
can make it sound better than almost any off-the-shelf system.  It's a whole
lot of work, and you shouldn't expect to save any money, but you'll find that
it's worth it in the long run, just in the increased productivity.  Admittedly
I am one of those old-fashioned wierdos who prefers pots over sliders, but
everyone has their own little personal preferences.  Get a board built with
those preferences in mind; an on-site engineer should be able to do such a 
thing without much worry.

  Trust us when we say that it's an art form.
--scott
From: skershaw@loki.une.edu.au (Shane Kershaw)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Dolby labs/NR/etc.
Keywords: History of Dolby NR : A, B, C, Hx, HX, etc ad nauseum
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:26:08 GMT
Organization: University of New England - Northern Rivers, (Lismore)

This is a posting on behalf of an associate. Please send any direct responses
to his quoted email address or just follow-up, it has been set to his mail
address.

=============================================================================

Hi,

I'm requesting extensive information on Dolby Noise Reduction. The history of
the company (how Ray Dolby started the ball rolling). All the different types
(A, B, C, Hx, HX, Pro, Surround, Surround Pro Logic, S, SR, any others ??) and
how they all work.

Mail me direct if you don't wish to clutter up the newsgroup.

--
Simon Mooney  Internet:  smooney@loki.une.edu.au   Phone:  +61  66 ????????
  University of New England - Northern Rivers  (Lismore)  NSW AUSTRALIA

=============================================================================

Interesting, Huh.

Let's see what we can do for him.

(I can provide some journal articles Simon, Talk to me on monday).

Shane.

-- 
|    "Life! Don't talk to me about life!"   Douglas Adams via Marvin     | 
|  Shane Kershaw  		Internet:	skershaw@loki.une.edu.au |
 \ University of NewEngland - Northern Rivers,   Lismore NSW Australia  / 
  ======================================================================
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