HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skyvington@republique.ilog.fr (William Skyvington)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Change bars in SGML
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:50:06 GMT
Reply-To: skyvington@ilog.fr
Organization: ILOG (Software Intelligence), Gentilly, France

My question is no doubt naive, because I'm a newcomer to SGML.

I'm curious to know how change bars should be handled in a
politically-correct SGML manner. I have three remarks to make:

1 -- Maybe change bars should *not* be handled at an SGML level.
One could argue, after all, that they have nothing to do with the
intrinsic contents and structure of a document. Most often, they
appear in printed documents merely to indicate differences between
the current version and the previous one. I suppose we could imagine
an author-friendly SGML-to-LaTeX translator, say, that would handle
this change-bar problem in one way or another...

2 -- Since it is feasible that a change bar might start in the
middle of a subsection in chapter N, and extend to the middle of a
section in chapter N+1, there is an overlapping problem. The
<change> element could be implemented, of course, at the level of
sentences or paragraphs. But this would mean that authors would have
to use the <change> tag for every new sentence or paragraph that they
write, maybe for pages on end.

3 -- All that a typesetting system (such as LaTeX) needs in order to
produce a change bar is a BEGIN-BAR marker indicating where the
print-change-bar process is to be turned on, and an END-BAR marker
indicating where it is to be turned off, Maybe, then, we should
simply create two elements in SGML:

     <!ELEMENT beginbar - O EMPTY >
     <!ELEMENT endbar   - O EMPTY >

These elements would be employed at the sentence level. The obvious
flaw is that there is no verification at the SGML level that the
markers occur as valid <beginbar>/<endbar> pairs. This verification
could be handled easily, of course, by an SGML-to-LaTeX translator.

=====================================================================
      William Skyvington    ILOG     2 avenue Gallieni - BP 85
            94253 GENTILLY CEDEX     France                             
          Tel 33 (1) 46 63 66 66     E-mail skyvington@ilog.fr
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: bernd@melon.iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Subject: Request for registration material: SGML '92
Reply-To: bernd@iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Cc: yuri@sq.sq.com
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:43:10 GMT


A short while ago Yuri Rubinsky posted an announcement for SGML '92
conference. I have been trying get more information and registration material
for the conference. However, my e-mail to Yuir bounced back, and a FAX to CGA
failed to bring any response.

Could somebody please fax or send me the desired information.

Thanks in advance,

Bernd


-- 
   Bernd Nordhausen (bernd@iss.nus.sg)
   Institute of Systems Science                           Ph: +65 772-6240 
   National University of Singapore                      FAX: +65 778-2571
   Singapore 0511
From: SGML@ifi.uio.no (Erik Naggum)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Is there an SGML FAQ list?
Date: 29 Aug 92 13:50:50 GMT
Organization: Department of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway

Michael Popham of Exeter and I are working on an FAQ.  I'm swamped with
work, though.

Although not exactly serving the same purpose, we do have an archive you
can reach with WAIS and FTP and gopher.

WAIS:
	comp.text.sgml.src, SGML.src, or SIGhyper.src.

FTP:
	host: ftp.ifi.uio.no
	directories: /pub/SGML, /pub/SIGhyper
	The archive is in /pub/SGML/comp.text.sgml/by.date and by.msgid.
	You can retrieve the entire archive with the file name
	/pub/SGML/comp.text.sgml/by.date.tar or ...tar.Z.  14-character
	file names are used in by.date, so SVR4 file systems can handle
	them.  Note: these files are created on the fly, so you won't
	find them if you look for them first.

gopher
	host: gopher.ifi.uio.no
	port: 70
	Selection 6, then 3 gets you to the archive, while selections 1
	and 2 eventually will get you to the other directories, but they
	don't work right now.  FTP must be used at present.  You can
	retrieve articles by date, by message-id and search for
	keywords.

Articles retrieved will have a file name consiting of the 14-digit ISO
8601 date and time specification as taken from the Date header of the
article.  You can follow backward references by using the message-id.
Sometime soon, forward references will also be provided, and I'll try to
get around to put in proper references headers for articles which miss
them.  (Please, please, retain the subject line (with leading "Re:") and
include a References header when you follow up.  People can usually find
out what you're replying to when they remember the article in question,
but try and go back into the archive, and find a related article four
months later.  Most news software does this right, so if you reply by
mail, please do us all the favor of adhering to these simple rules, as
the archive is accessed in many more ways than linearly in time.)

I hope this helps until we can get the FAQ out.  Actually, the most
frequently asked question seems to be "where is the FAQ", since very
little ground has been covered twice, so it's more like an intro to the
group than an FAQ.

Indexes to the archive are planned, too.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum             |  ISO  8879 SGML     |      +47 295 0313
                        |  ISO 10744 HyTime   |
<erik@naggum.no>        |  ISO 10646 UCS      |      Memento, terrigena.
<enag@ifi.uio.no>       |  ISO  9899 C        |      Memento, vita brevis.
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: bernd@melon.iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Subject: ASEAN/AUS/NZ SGML Users Group
Reply-To: bernd@iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Cc: 100033.3271@compuserve.com, bernd@iss.nus.sg
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 05:08:51 GMT



Nick Carr of Allette Systems and me are forming a SGML user group for the
Australia, New Zealand and South East Asia region. Enclosed is a notice 
taken from SGML News, a newsletter that Allette Systems is distributing.

Currently we looking for volunteers to sign up. If you are interested, please
send a message either to Nick Carr (100033.3271@compuserve.com) or me
(bernd@iss.nus.sg).

Further detailed announcements  will follow.

Cheers, Bernd

=============================================================================

"For the evening of Tuesday, November 10, SGML News is proposing
the first of bimonthly regional meetings for everyone with an interest
in SGML. Venues and agendas will be announced in the next issue of
SGML News, but first we need some enthusiasts to donate (or
arrange) the meeting areas and make presentations (or guide the
discussions).

Preferably presentations will be an account of an SGML
implementation and the resulting benefits. However, if a user is not
available in each city, vendor or consultant presentations will be
welcome. In the event that more than one organisation per city
proposes a venue or presentation, they will simply be rotated for
future meetings. If there is noone to provide premises or make a
presentation, simply arrange a meeting at a restaurant or pub for
lunch or after work and have a member of the group summarise the
discussion (questions, opinions, experiences etc). We will print
summaries of the meetings in the following issue of SGML News.
Hopefully, the results of your meetings will inspire interest and
further attendance for future meetings.

Let us know if you think that you can help. Please do not assume that
someone in your area has already volunteered, it will always help to
know who else is available to assist in the future. (SGML News is
distributed to the major cities in Australia, New Zealand and South
East Asia.)

Mark November 10 in your diary regardless of the city you are in. For
the details of your local meeting, just watch the next edition of SGML
News. If you can help, please contact Nick Carr on
Ph 612 262 4777
Fax 612 262 4774
CompuServe 100033,3271
Internet 100033.3271@compuserve.com,
 or 
PO Box R806
Sydney  NSW
Australia 2000"

=============================================================================
-- 
   Bernd Nordhausen (bernd@iss.nus.sg)
   Institute of Systems Science                           Ph: +65 772-6240 
   National University of Singapore                      FAX: +65 778-2571
   Singapore 0511
From: ag129@cl.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Record boundaries
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:55:08 GMT
Reply-To: ag129@cl.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK


Is it portable to use RE in short references?  Eric van H.'s book 
says "no document or part of a document is deemed to start with an RS
or end with an RE unless it really does."  Does this mean that if I 
ship the document to a record-based system like MVS, I would have to 
reserve a character, FUNCTION RE it, and insert it at the end of every
line, if I was using one of the short reference delimiters that contain
it (e.g. blank line)?
From: SGML@ifi.uio.no (Erik Naggum)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Record boundaries
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:09:43 GMT
Organization: Department of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway

Alasdair Grant <ag129@cl.cam.ac.uk> writes:
|
|   Is it portable to use RE in short references?

Yes.

|   Eric van H.'s book says "no document or part of a document is deemed
|   to start with an RS or end with an RE unless it really does."  Does
|   this mean that if I ship the document to a record-based system like
|   MVS, I would have to reserve a character, FUNCTION RE it, and insert
|   it at the end of every line, if I was using one of the short
|   reference delimiters that contain it (e.g. blank line)?

No.

To quote from the standard in the last note in clause 7.6.1 (324:12 to
those who have the one and only SGML Handbook):

	No entity, including the SGML document entity and external
	entities, is deemed to start with an RS or end with an RE unless
	it really does.

It's the entity manager's job to ensure that the parser sees RS's and
RE's where the file system has record boundaries, or where the file
system has line terminating control codes, or whatever.  An RE is an RE
whether it originated as the end of a record on an MVS system, or its
character number occurred in the document, or the entity manager saw
something else and interpreted it as a record end.

For instance, on MVS a record would produce an RS, the record content,
and an RE.  On DEC operating systems, a line is terminated by CRLF,
where the CR is interpreted as RE for the current record, and the LF as
RS for the next (unless there is none).  On Unix systems, a line is
terminated by LF, which is interpreted as the RE for the current record
and as RS for the next (unless there is none), so it would produce two
characters to the parser from one character in the source entity.  On
Macintoshes, the same is true for CR.  MS DOS is a cheap clone of CP/M,
which was a reasonable clone of early DEC operating systems, so the CRLF
line terminator applies there, too.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum             |  ISO  8879 SGML     |      +47 295 0313
                        |  ISO 10744 HyTime   |
<erik@naggum.no>        |  ISO 10646 UCS      |      Memento, terrigena.
<enag@ifi.uio.no>       |  ISO  9899 C        |      Memento, vita brevis.
From: sjd@ebt.com (Steve DeRose)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: NET-enabling start tag special case question
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:47:20 GMT
Distribution: w
Organization: EBT
Originator: sjd@worf

An interesting (to me) question:

Is it permissible to terminate an element which was opened using a NET-
enabling start-tag, by using a normal end-tag instead of just a NET?

<example>
   <P>This is a <EMPH/very </EMPH> short paragraph.</P>

Of the three parsers I've tried, two say yes and one says no.

My interpretation of 8879 is that this is permitted (although
it seems a very silly thing to do!), because I can find no clause specifying
that a normal end-tag is *not* recognized in this particular context.

Anybody want to offer insights or differing interpretations on this?

Steve

<References>
   ISO 8879 7.4.1.3: NET-enabling Start-tag; 7.5.1.3: Null End-tag.
From: srn@techno.com (Steven R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: newspapers
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:37:29 GMT

I have been asked by three different readers of comp.text.sgml to
summarize the replies I have received regarding SGML's existing
applications in the newspaper business.  Any and all further information
will be more than welcome. 

Here's what was reported to me:

AP recently put out for discussion an "SGML based DTD" for wire stories.
-- thanks to Frank Dunn

There is already an IPTC/ANPA standard for the delivery envelope for
wire pictures, though it's not in common use yet.  Reuters may use
it when they start delivering digital pictures next year.  
-- thanks to Frank Dunn

The CAPS project at University of Bradford (?) has developed an
SGML DTD for newspapers for the blind (published in Braille, I gather).
-- thanks to Tom Wesley.



Steven R. Newcomb, Chairman, SGML SIGhyper (International SGML Users'
  Group Special Interest Group on Hypertext and Multimedia)
c/o TechnoTeacher, Inc.                      Voice: +1 904 422 3574
1810 High Road                               Fax:   +1 904 386 2562
Tallahassee, FL 32303-4408 USA               Internet: srn@techno.com
From: SGML@ifi.uio.no (Erik Naggum)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Path Specification in External Entity Declarations
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:27:09 GMT
Organization: Department of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway

Eliot Kimber <DRMACRO@RALVM13.VNET.IBM.COM> writes:
|
:
|   For example, say I have an entity reference that resolves to a
|   database query to get the value of IBM stock at the moment the
|   entity is referenced.  Clearly the stock value changes second by
|   second, so a strict reading of ISO 8879 cannot be satisfied because
|   the entity will likely have a different value at every occurrence.

I see nothing in the standard which precludes having entities whose
entity text has different values each time it's referenced.  However,
I also see nothing in the standard which says that the entity manager
is not allowed to cache the entity text, but must access the physical
storage of the entity each time.  In fact, a pretty good case can be
made for requiring entity texts to be static with respect to an
invocation of the parser.

:
|   Note too that SDIF interchange cannot be reliably implemented
|   between systems that have different filesystem structures unless
|   they share a common entity declaration convention.  Such a
|   convention is outside the scope of SGML or SDIF definitions and is
|   thus application-dependent.

Hmmm.  I'm admittedly not very well versed in SDIF, but from my past
couple of readings of the standard, as well as a scan now, it appears
that system identifiers will be assigned by the SDIF unpacker, and not
use the system identifiers of the source environment, just as I'm
assuming in my scheme to resolve public identifiers.  In fact, the note
to definition 4.13 says as much:

4.13 SDIF unpacker:  A program that decomposes an SDIF data stream into
     its constituent entities.

     NOTE -- If necessary, the SDIF unpacker will modify the system
	  identifiers of markup declarations to be consistent with
	  storage addresses in its environment.

So what you said is actually wrong.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum             |  ISO  8879 SGML     |      +47 295 0313
                        |  ISO 10744 HyTime   |
<erik@naggum.no>        |  ISO 10646 UCS      |      Memento, terrigena.
<enag@ifi.uio.no>       |  ISO  9899 C        |      Memento, vita brevis.
From: alhy@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu (J. Scott Berg)
Newsgroups: comp.text
Subject: Re: Problem with X11R5 man pages on RS6000
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:34:44 GMT
Reply-To: alhy@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
Organization: Stanford University, dept of Physics / SLAC

In article <5351@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, alhy@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu (J. Scott Berg) writes:
|> I have an RS6000, running aix 3.1.7.  Here's a section from the xterm
|> manpage for X11R5:
|> 
|> .IR curses (3x)
|> bug mentioned above.
|> .TP 8
|> .BI \-e " program \[arguments \.\.\.\]"
|> This option specifies the program (and its command line arguments) to be
|> run in the \fIxterm\fP window.  It also sets the window title and icon
|> 
|> 
|> Notice the \[; nroff on the rs6000 wants that to mean that the
|> following 2 or 4 characters are a hex character sequence, and thus
|> gives garbage.  Anybody know how to fix this?  I have no understanding
|> of nroff.  I tried pumping it throught groff, and it was equally
|> unhappy.  nroff on a sun seems to work just fine.  Thanks
|> 

An update to my own posting:  I replace every occurrence of \[ with [,
and it seems to work fine.  Anyone know why the [ was "escaped" in the
original (i.e., will I regret having a program run throught
/usr/local/man and replace every \[ with a [)?  Thanks

				-Scott Berg

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed here are, of course, my own and nobody else's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Scott Berg
email: alhy@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
real mail: Varian Physics
           Stanford  CA  94305-4060
phone:	(415) 926-4732 (w)
 	(415) 326-2631 (h)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.text
From: weisen@daedalus.dcrt.nih.gov (Neil Weisenfeld)
Subject: Re: man page standards
Organization: National Inst. of Health, DCRT, CSL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:48:57 GMT

markm@iris.mincom.oz.au (Mark McCafferty) writes:
: Are there any generic standards for the preparation of man pages?
: We are using HP/UX nroff, using the 'an' macros.
: 
: BTW are there any explanations of the 'an' macros?
: 
: thx
: mark

Hmm, somehow I think this question wasn't really about the various 
standards committees that are working on the man macros...Maybe I'm wrong,
but just in case I'm not...

If you are interested in writing man pages (not writing man macros), the
best reference you'll find is by doing "man 7 man" which should give you 
the documentation on the man macros.  The classic book "The Unix Programming
Environment" by Kernighan and Pike gives an intro to man page writing that
should be good enough to get started.  Also check out some of the man
pages that are already there.  Sometimes you find that they were generated
automatically from (presumably) some other format, but you might find some
that are intelligently done.

--Neil



--
Neil I. Weisenfeld                    National Institutes of Health
Computer Engineer                     Building 12A, Room 2033
weisen@alw.nih.gov                    Bethesda, MD 20892
uunet!nih-csl!weisen                  phone: (301) 402-2788
Newsgroups: comp.text
From: valsta@kuusi.metla.fi (Lauri Valsta)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: DevGuide 1.1 -> 3  differences
Summary: What are the main differences between versions?
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:43:31 GMT
Organization: Metsantutkimuslaitos

I have DevGuide 1.1. Is version 3 (I believe that's the current one)
much different from 1.1? Is it worth updating?


-- 
| Lauri T. Valsta   Finnish Forest Research Institute |
| valsta@metla.fi   Helsinki, Finland                 |
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: tel@adimail.uucp (Terry Monks)
Subject: signals under xview
Organization: Automata Design, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:55:05 GMT


Our application has some displays (in a canvas) that can be time consuming.
Under SunView we were able to use the STOP key and the SIGURG signal
processing to change a variable. Then we stopped the display generation if that
variable ever went false.

Well, under xview we can't get SIGURG anymore, so what do we do? I cannot
seem to get anything to work. I thought I could call notify_dispatch() and
my event loop would do the right thing (it detects ACTION_STOP fine), but no.
I have tried using raw X commands like XCheckEventMask, but can get no
KeyPress events...and many other things.

Has anyone else faced this problem and solved it?


-- 
Terry Monks        Automata Design Inc    (703) 742-9400



-- 
Terry Monks        Automata Design Inc    (703) 742-9400
From: DMAHONEY@vax.micron.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: cmd/shelltool questions
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:35:29 GMT


 
 
I am working on window applications for a Sparc IPC (4.1.x, OW2, olwm)
that is the front-end interface to a production machine.  As such, my 
"user" is completely unsophisticated, barely versed with computers, 
much less Unix or X.
 
I have an application, a script, that uses shelltool, but invariably an
operator either closes the window into an icon (and wonders why the
machine seems to loop) or the operator quits the window before the proper
data is entered.  I've been considering switching this application to 
an Xview program, using a popup window and a data check that pops the window
back up if the data is wrong (or missing).  Unfortunately, a popup window
doesn't really allow you to force feed the user and opening up a popup window
(and its respective data check) for each of several options is not doable,

again due to the confusion of the operators.
 
Is there any way to run a force-feeding (step-by-step) script in a popup window?
 
Also, a source of much aggravation is the fact that our only non-cleanroom
access to the Sparcs are ASCII terminals.  Is there anyway to save
a console/cmdtool/shelltool window remotely from an ASCII terminal (using
remotely-issued mouse commands?)  (Actually, the ability to do any
sequence of remote mouse/keyboard commands would be invaluable.)
 
A last problem (irritation) is the curious behavior where if you make
a window "Full" (or double click on the header) and fill the larger window
with text and then make the window "Normal" (ie. small), the text you see
is the text that was at the top of the window, not the stuff at the bottom.
For console and error-logging windows, the most recent data (at the bottom
of the window) is most important and having to drag the scrollbar to the
bottom after every "Full"-"Normal" sequence is irritating.  Is there some

resource that can be set?
 
Thanks in advance for any insight into any of this.  Please respond
by email and if there is sufficient response, I will summarize.
 
--Dale Mahoney
  Micron Semiconductor 			dmahoney@vax.micron.com
  Boise, ID
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: kumar@ra.csc.ti.com (Sundeep Kumar)
Subject: Generating Keyboard Events for OLWM
Followup-To: kumar@ra.csc.ti.com 
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:55:20 GMT

I am writing an application that will display Olwm menus automatically,
ie: No Mouse/no Keyboard "presses" are required. Can I automatically
generate a Kepress event and push it into the Olwm event queue ? This
way I can "simulate" keyboard operations required to move amongsts the
Menus. Any other Ideas are welcome.

--kumar
From: rmf@bpdsun1.uucp (Rob Finley)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Using ACM flight sim and ow3.0
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:41:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harris Allied Broadcast Div., Quincy, IL


I recently dug the copy of ACM that I pulled off the net ages ago
and made a first pass at compiling and running it.

I remembered the font problem and changed the 17point to 18point
in NewPlayer.c (or something like that).

Now, the library test works great and I can start up acms without
problems but when I try to run acm, acms gets a segmentation fault
and dumps core.


Was this problem ever resolved?
Thanks for your time.

Robert


-----
quintro!bpdsun1!rmf@lll-winken.llnl.gov or uunet!tiamat!quintro!bpdsun1!rmf