HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:21:46 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu's message of 23 Jul 92 02:05:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.220540.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
> I'm looking for an apartment in Gilo Bet in Jerusalem for mid sept to mid
> october for a couple.  If you know of any possbility, please respond to 
> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu or in J'lem call Lenn Schramm at 63 01 38 
> during the day.  

Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Flames on Israel Radio
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:46:53 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

Just now heard a politician, responding to attacks made on him, or
maybe on his party, refer to the attacker, owner of a carpet factory,
as someone whose political philosophy can be summed up as "hichonu
l'viat hashatiach".

(Trans: a combination of the Lubavich slogan "Prepare for the coming
of the Messiah", but Messiah changed to carpet - it rhymes in Hebrew)

Disclaimer - I don't really listen to the radio, but I have a
backround job listening for jokes.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire ***		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very crowned apple.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not all that worried.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: the conversion can of worms, again (was Re: Anti-Orthodoxy ...)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:50:59 GMT

In article <LERNER.92Jul31132537@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul31.163857.28018@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
>>
>>  >  the ways of the Torah
>>  >  are pleasant, and if people would just follow the Torah we have 
>>  >  been promised a land of Milk and Honey.    
>>
>>  Clue time: not all of us believe that Torah and halacha have a whole
>>  lot to do with each other.

>  Well they do.  The Halacha and the Torah are inseparable.

Truth by Blatant Assertion again. Which is fine as far as your own
life goes, but *your* blatant assertion is not a fair way to run *our*
joint democracy.

>/M

	-Nora
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<LERNER.92Jul16144011@division.cs.columbia.edu>
	<FAIGIN.92Jul16135135@soldan.aero.org>
	<1992Jul20.211358.27459@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
	<FAIGIN.92Jul20150755@soldan.aero.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:53:55 GMT

You say:

>> A fundamental of Judaism is something that *all* Jews agree on. I can only
>> think of one of these, and it is defined by "our G-d is one". Look at
>> the Maimodenes 13 principles. Where is keeping kosher there? 

I think that Islam also holds there is ONE G-d, and indeed they are rigidly
aniconic.  How do you differ from Islam?

--
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Centrality of Men/Women (Was Re: Inher
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:04:23 GMT

In article <l6oi8iINN4pr@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>##                   What do you mean when you say "an Orthodox wife
>## ..constantly performs domestic duties which are religious in nature and
>## governed by religious law, with a minimum intrusion of the
>## non-religious world"?  Cooking?  Cleaning?  Taking care of kids?  Do
>#                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>## you consider these to be activities more religious in nature than her
>## husband's studying or davening?
>#
>#
># As a subset of the things permitted and/or required, yes.
>#
>	...

In 1977 the Jewish Observer ran an article called "Mrs. Rosenberg's Yeshiva".
The article goes on to describe, a small Yeshiva in Boro Park, New York,
where the Rosh Yeshiva (dean) is a women by the name of Mrs. Rosenberg.

As you continue reading the article, it mentions that this Yeshiva has
3 students, all of whom are under 5 years of age. It also mentions
that this Yeshiva is not unique, as there are many, many other such
Yeshivas.

Obviously, we are talking about a typical Jewish home. But, this is
a Yeshiva in every sense of the word. The Mother typically teaches the
children middos, character, ethics, honesty, basic Jewish fundamentals,
and so forth. Obviously, when the child reaches a certain age, he/she
is sent off to another Yeshiva, to gain a more advanced education.

But never underestimate the Jewish mother. She has provided the child
with all the tools he/she needs to go out in the world. She has
planted the foundation of this next generation. Her yeshiva is certainly
no less important than all of our great Yeshivas in the world today.

Unfortunately, she may not get all the credit she deserves. Perhaps
for that reason, the Talmud relates that the ultimate "havtacha" (promise)
for women in the next world will be greater then that for men .

IF anyone is interested, I may be able to dig up a copy of this article.

Hayim Hendeles


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:08:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.134710.14212@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> afrydman@granpa.enet.dec.com (Av Frydman) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul24.071839.29730@midway.uchicago.edu>, rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes...
>
> But I would teach my children myself
>>rather than send them to an Orthodox *anything*; I have about the same
>>degree of appreciation for and agreement with Orthodox religious the-
>>ory as I do for Christianity, and I wouldn't let my kids grow up being
>>trained by either one.

>Clearly, something must be very wrong to engender this kind of hatred.  What
>does "Orthodox" mean to you, Nora, that "anything" about it is anathema?

It isn't hatred; it's irritation and disagreement, in reverse order of
priority. I won't get into much of a debate on the matter, since I recall
all to well how *that* went last fall (this time if I get another death
threat it goes straight to the sysadmin; I didn't know how to do that
before); but my tools for interpreting Torah are Aristotelian syllogism
and Occam's Razor, and halacha uses neither. I don't accept anyone's
authority on questions of law, and although I do accept advice to the
point where my practice is closer to Modern Orthodox than to Reform a
lotof the time, I will not let anyone try to teach my children that the
correct way to interpret the text is to let somebody else, whether a
modern Rabbi or an ancient sage, do it for you.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who are the Haredi?
Date: 20 Jul 92 07:52:32 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <SROSEN.92Jul17122122@herring.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
srosen@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Samuel Rosen) writes:

>While I have not studied a vast amount of Hebrew, I would think that
>HARED is tremble, while HAREDI refers to a person who is trembling.
>
>Similar to YISRAELI, a person who belongs to YISRAEL.
>
>I guess gramaticaly we would say that HAREDI is the noun.

Wallach original comment was correct.

Yisrael is a noun and hence Yisreaeli is an adjective.

as a short way of speeking one may use the adjective as if it is a
noun, so instead saying  AISH YISREAELI ( a Jewish person ) one say
Yisreaeli . After a long time of such a use the adjective becomes a
noun.
Example : ARVI = a DESERT's (person)   serves as the name of Beduines
           ( in our day Arvi means every one who call himself an
Arab).

The HAREDI status , to my opinion, is that it is still a mistake and
the correct form is HARED.
( It seemed that Haredi arosed not as an adjective but as a  singular
form of Haredim).

   Shalom   gideon

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:23:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.071839.29730@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>Aside from the question of those parents who want their kids to get "a
>little bit" of Jewish education, there's the question of what kind of
>Jewish education they want their kids to get. If there were a Reform
>yeshiva in the vicinity, I would probably send my kids there full-time;
>and my parents did send me to our synagogue's day school when I was
>young, on the same principle. But I would teach my children myself
>rather than send them to an Orthodox *anything*; I have about the same
>degree of appreciation for and agreement with Orthodox religious the-
>ory as I do for Christianity, and I wouldn't let my kids grow up being
>trained by either one.
>
>	-Nora

Your antipathy towards Orthodoxy is tragic, and, so far as I can
tell, would not be acceptable to either Conservative or Reform
movements:  you appreciate Orthodoxy as much as Christianity!?!?!?

So send your kids to a Reform or Conservative day  school.  But if
you're serious about Jewish education, don't write "If there were
a Reform yeshiva in the vicinity."  People who are serious about
Jewish education simply would not live in a community that did not
have appropriate Jewish educational facilities.




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:40:29 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Followup-To: alt.weemba
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
Supersedes: <84670@netnews.upenn.edu>
In-reply-to: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)

In article <154743INN7mp@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet (Richard Schultz) writes:
>A word of advice for Nora from a person whose net.memory goes back to (and
>past) the halcyon days of the brahms gang's greatest activity.  Whether
>the person you are referring to is Matt Wiener or not, I can say that calling
>him a "nitwit" is a Big Mistake.

Well, Dickie old chum, an Even Bigger Mistake is calling me "Matt".

>				   Old-time readers of alt.flame will agree
>that I know what I'm talking about.

And old-time readers of alt.weemba (and some former calculus students) will
agree that I know what I'm talking about on this one.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: jfox@vms.macc.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: egypt to israel to egypt
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:36:32 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
  If you go from Egypt to Israel and want to return to Egypt (on a

USA passport) is there a problem? I'd like to hear from someone who has
done this. Or, if you are in a city with an Egyptian consulate and
could phone them and email me, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Saturday, 25 Jul 1992 22:03:35 EDT
From: RABBI CHARLES ARIAN <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ORTHODOXY FOR THE NON-ORTHODOX.

In article <1992Jul25.174648.11678@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) says:
>
>   One of the most wonderful discoveries I have ever made, in the
>world of Jewish thought, is the writing of Heschel.  This amazing
>man is, IMHO, one of the finest examples of a tzaddik.  When King
>was alive, there were many Jews, and many rabbis, that marched in
>Selma with King.  But, to the best of my knowledge, the one rabbi
>that was orthodox, was Heschel.  This brilliant man is revered in
>the gentile world as well.  Many Christian theologians frequently
>incorporate Heschel's writings into their teaching.  For those of
>you not familiar with his works, a good book to start off with is
>God in Search Of Man.

Rabbi Heschel, though born into a Chasidic family, was ordained to
the rabbinate at the Berlin Hochschule -- the German Reform seminary.
(Whether German Reform = American Reform or American Conservative
is an open question, refugee rabbis from Germany joined both
movements.)

Heschel came to the US to teach at Hebrew Union College, the Reform
seminary in Cincinnati. After five years there he moved to the Jewish
Theological Seminary (Conservative) in New York City, where he had
his most productive years.

My impression is that Heschel seems to have more acceptance in Orthodox
circles than most other Conservative thinkers, perhaps because of his
noted piety and saintliness. But Heschel was not affiliated with
Orthodox institutions and his views of revelation and the nature of
the Written Torah were hardly in accordance with normative Orthodoxy.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:24:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.180310.25028@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) wrote an excellent article
describing some of the difficulties inherent in an afternoon school as
an attempt to provide a coherent (let alone complete) Jewish
education.  Yet, in his article he has provided the strongest argument
for day school (if not Yeshivah) education.  Participating in all these
secular extra-curricular activities seems to answer the concern about
exposure to more than just Jews.

In my years at day school, I participated in Mountain Top League (like
Little League except that everyone played, even the, shall we say, less
agile, as me) and Scouts, and even held an evening job among other
activities.  My brothers were in scouts, the league, took music
lessons, etc.

As far as secular academics are concerned, the day school and yeshiva
education we received didn't hurt.  I am the least academically
accomplished of the three brothers in my family and went to Washington
University in St Louis.  One brother went to Princeton and Oxford and the
other to MIT and Yale. None of us lacked in preparation for these schools
and we got the foundation for a fine Jewish life as well.

Now, I grant that none of this could be done without the supportive
atmosphere of a Jewishly observant home and parents, but the fact is that
my parents understood the problems of settling for an afternoon school
education and chose to do something about it.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: simon@hpsrad.enet.dec.com ("Curiosier and Curiosier...")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:44:22 GMT
Reply-To: simon@hpsrad.enet.dec.com ("Curiosier and Curiosier...")
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Jul20.181428.2845@unixland.natick.ma.us>,
sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
>I am *extremely* disappointed that, except for one private message
>to me expressing support for my views and my friends, no one else here
>has spoken out against the assumption that non-Jewish eastern
>Europeans are probably, at best, "country-club"-type anti-Semites.


Hardly surprising.  You evidently do not realize that it is not an
assumption but a fact of life.  A lot of people who read/post in
soc.culture.jewish are either immigrants from Eastern Europe (like me)
or the immigrant's children.  Most of us experienced this anti-Semitism
first hand.  Your work for the Soviet Jewry notwithstanding, there is a
lot you need to learn to change your view of the world that you got in
your nice Boston suburb.
--
Leo Simon			simon@hpsrad.enet.dec.com

Who is not liberal when young, does not have a heart.
Who is not conservative when old, does not have a brain.

				-- Attributed to many
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Circumcision of converts?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:30:12 GMT
Reply-To: de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

In article <1992Jul20.192413.4048@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <FAIGIN.92Jul17142315@soldan.aerospace.aero.org> faigin@aerospace.aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>(1) The Torah doesn't appear to proscribe any initiatory rites for the
>>convert.
>True

Well, I can't say that I remember the Torah using word conversion.  But it
certainly does differentiate between a citizen, and an alien.  If we take
the word citizen (Ezrach) to mean a Jew (a member of the community in good
standing) and that an alien (Ger) is a resident non-Jew, there is an
initatory rite.

It is in Exodus when there is a discussion of the Pesach sacrifice.  (I don't
have the exact wording here).  It says that every citizen must bring the
sacrifice.  And if the alien wants to bring the sacrifice, he must 
circumcize all the males, and then he could bring the sacrifice.

Seems to me this is circumcision as an iniatory rite.



-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: How to label
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 10:52:10 +0300

 In: <1992Jul26.144016.28436@cs.tulane.edu>
 david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) asks:

>In article <1992Jul24.175441.24379@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>>I would like to disagree with David Kaufmann that labels are
>>meaningless.
>>
>>First of all, without labels there would be no way to be sure of
>>the heksher on what we eat
>>
>The reference was to the use of labels as definitives. Any word, as
>Len Moskowitz and I can tell you, is subject to connotation as well as
>denotation, and it's quite easy to "score points" by deliberately
>confusing one with the other.
>
>Labeling a Jew as O, C, R or even Modern Orthodox serves no useful
>purpose within a discussion of Jewish observance and thought, since
>the labels themselves neither explain nor justify.
>
>Consider: what do you "label" a Jewish woman who keeps mikveh, lights
>candles Friday nights, drives on Shabbos and doesn't keep kosher?
>
>Or a Jewish man who puts on tefillin every day but eats on Yom Kippur?

That man  I would label  as "mad".  About the  lady, well I  am trying
usually to be more polite to ladies...

I have a tougher one, how to  label that guy, who fasts on Yom Kippur,
and "puts on tefillin every day" including Yom Kippur. :-)

>David Kaufmann

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Why I gave up on my People (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:13:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.011646.23307@unixland.natick.ma.us>
sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:

>I am no scholar, but I cannot believe the Torah teaches that we should
>care only about our own, and it is right and just to assume the worst
>of someone because of their ethnic group, and we should not be disturbed
>if others are suffering as long as they aren't Jews.

It is _only_ you who has claimed, to the point of slander, that ANY Jew
says anything near this end of the spectrum.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is Clinton's position on Israel?
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:00:36 GMT
Organization: Galaxy Information System (GIS) 1:133/411 Atlanta, Ga

Dateline Sun, 19/Jul92 04:46.
In , Ted Frank of thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu  wrote to All at 1:133/411,

 TF> Let's face it, if Clinton doesn't get elected, it's four 
 TF> more years of Bush and Baker anti-Semitism.

     Clinton has stated support for Israel, and Al Gore is known as a long-time friend.  Clinton said here in Atlanta during the primary that he believed the loan guarantees should be disassociated from the peace talks, but that the peace talks were important.  He also hinted at an opinion that the Bush Administration had been leaning toward the Arabs against the interests of Israel.


          David Deitch, (GIS) Atlanta



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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish