From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Are LDS Christians?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:06:11 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1fn102fg24hA01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, 
agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose) writes:
[...]
> This is reprinted from the Mormon Church section of the Deseret News,
> Salt Lake Citym Utah.  September 20,1969
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> David Witmer has written a fascinating description of how the Prophet
> Joseph Smith translated the golden plates.
> "He (Joseph) had two small stones of a chocolate colot, nearly egg shaped
> and perfectly smooth, but not transparent, called interpreters, which
> were given him with the plates.  He did not use the plates in the
> translation, but would hold the interpreters to his eyes and cover his
> face with a hat, excluding all the light, and before his eyes would
> appear the characters of the plates in a line at the top, and immediately
> below would appear the translation, in English, which Smith would read
> to his scribe, who wrote it down exactly as it fell from his lips."
> 
> The witness then explains how the scribe read the sentence back to the
> Prophet, and if any mistakes had been made, the charaters from the plates
> would remain before his eyes until the translation was witten correctly.

And david Whitmer was *never* a first-hand witness to the
translation process, and the accounts of those who were do not
support his assertions above.

Also, if this were the case, then there is a major problem: the
plates.  Why go through all the trouble of making them,
preserving them, and that helping someone to discover them and
translate them if the above method is what was employed?

> Shortly before the translation was completed, David, with Oliver Cowedry
> and Martin Harris - the Three witnesses - was shown the plates by an
> angel according to Moroni's instructions:
> 
> "And behold ye may be priviledged that ye may show the plates unto those
> who shall assist to bring forth this work; and unto three shall they be
> shown by the power of God..."
> 
> David Witmer was rightly qualified to become one of the three witnesses
> of the work. He had aided the Prophet and his family during the
> translation period, some of the actual work being done in the Whitmer
> home.

But it has never been shown that he was ever present while any of
the translation was beeing made.

> He was one of the original six members of the church. He became a leading
> figure, was ordained a high priest, became president of the first high
> council, and, as on the the Three Winesses, helped select the Twelve
> Apostles of this dispensation.
> 
> David became at odds with Church leadership, however, and in April, 1838
> was excommunicated by the high council at Far West. He lived another 50
> years, never rejoining the church, but whenever challenged, he
> reaffirmed his testimony:
> 
> "As sure as the sun shines and I live, just so sure did the angel appear
> unto me and Joseph Smith, and I heard his voice, and did see the angel
> standing before us..."

David Whitmer believed that Joseph Smith was a prophet only as
long as used the urim and thummim ro receive revelation and
instruction from God.  When Joseph Smith received revelations
without it, David Whitmer rejected him.

This would seem to account for his unique description above of
the translation process of the Book of Mormon, a process which it
is hard to show that he even witnessed.

The only one that "witnessed" the translation process were the
scribes, and even then, Joseph and the plates were seperated from
the scribes buy a curtain so that the scribes couldn't see the
plates.

Therefore, the only first-hand witness of the translation process
was Joseph Smith, and the only details that he provided about it
was that it was accomplished by the power of God.

Also, if David Whitmer insists that Joseph used a peep-stone to
translate the Book of Mormon, and you claim that if Joseph
didn't, then Whitmer's testimony is *entirely* false, then what
about the other two witnesses?  How does such a thing make their
testimonies false, since they made no claims connecting Joseph,
peep-stones, and the translation of the Book of Mormon?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc