HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: Re: building an Ice Climbing tower.
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:02:18 GMT

ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau) writes:

>Hi!  Since that we are stuck out here in the prairies our local section of
>the Alpine Club of Canada is thinking about putting up an ice tower this
>winter.  The only ideas we have had is some sort of telephone pole
>construction with chicken wire for the ice to stick to.  What I am
>wondering is has any one out there tried(successfully or otherwise) to
>build one?  If so please send me any construction ideas that you have. 

I remember reading a while about a guy out on the plains who had a
concrete silo with rebar ladder rungs coming out of it; I don't know if it
was on the inside or outside.  He would drip water from the top and make a
pretty good ice climbing wall.  Maybe this can help spur some ideas.

					-Dave
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura) - training the head muscles
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:00:59 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


Technique is most of it. If you want to be good, develop strength first, 
then hope hte technique will come. It wont, cos whenever you come to a 
problem, yopu'll thug it and learn nothing.

If you want to be REALLY good, dont train for power until you can flow
at least E5 smoothly. The neccessary power for this (surprisingly little)
will come by just climbing. While you are weak, you learn to cheat 
everything by using two extra aid points than everyone else (your feet).
You also learn to dance and play chess. This lets you scorch up stuff 
by finessing it rather than grinding tediously up on power.

Now you add the power and before long you'll be the best.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Cheyenne Wills)
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.074809.20172@watson.ibm.com>
eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche) writes:
 
>
>I know that it can be problem to learn the 2nd step, but that is not necessary for
>many people. They stay in their overbolted area and are happy. People who learn it
>this way  learn it fast and may become excellent climber and alpinists.
>People like Profit, F.Legrand, Susi Good, Patissier, C Destivelle learned it this
>way with pretty good success  :-)
>
>Erich Ruetsche, eru@zurich.ibm.com
 
The one major problem with this though is that some of the people who
have come to expect bolts for the entire route start deciding to
do first ascents.  Since they don't have the experience with natural
gear placements and hanging out to mess around with some small wires
and such, they tend to revert back to their element; place a bolt.
 
I've seen several climbs where there were bolts placed where they
where not needed *IF* the leader would take the time to hang out and
place the gear.
 
I often wonder if climbs like X-M, Jules Verne, Crystal Clear, etc.
would be put up in the same style that they had been if they where
to be put up today.
 
 
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| +-----+                               | Cheyenne Wills                |
| |     |       "From here on up it is  | Storage Technology Corporation|
| |  +--+--+      downhill all the way" | 2270 South 88th St.           |
| |  |  |  |                            | Louisville, Co. 80028-4232    |
| +--+--+  |                            |                               |
|    |     |                            | wills@lstc2vm.stortek.com     |
|    +-----+                            | cheyenne@witsend.stortek.com  |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: garth@leland.Stanford.EDU (Douglas Garth Jensen)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:01:27 GMT

In article <1ebq8hINNm63@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
>view.

If the National Forest Service was really so interested in reducing logging
and maintaining revenue, it should simply increase the cost of trees to the
timber companies to a price which more reasonably represents their true value.
As I understand it, the NFS now sells trees on NFS land to the timber 
companies for something like 1 dollar per tree.  As if that isn't already
enough of an insult, the cost to U.S. taxpayers of making those trees 
available to the timber companies (by building roads and taking care of
paper work) is about $1.40 per tree.  In other words, we actually PAY the
timber companies to take the trees.  I'm skeptical that the NFS would use
fees from backpackers in a productive way.

-Garth
From: tpm@ecs (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:55:01 GMT


I guess that I'm exempt from Laura's recent complaint since I'm British,
so here goes for a dumb macho survey barely disguised as science:

I've been climbing for almost 2 yrs now and have trained pretty hard,
figuring that the more pull ups and wrist curls you can do, the harder
you can climb.  Since January however, my strength has hardly improved
at all, but my climbing has got way better, leading me to consider the
fact that maybe technique has something to do with it as well (what a 
radical idea!).
			   
So, maybe pull-ups aren't everything.  In order to check this *astonishing*
premise it would be nice to check the pull-up to grade correlation.
All you need to do is send me a message with all relevant info in the 
subject field. I'll post the results, from which you will be able to 
ascertain to no less than three decimal points exactly how your climbing 
grade will or will not increase by learning to do that one extra 
pull-up :->.

Here's an American example:
	Subject: 5.10 #32
And a British one:
	Subject: E3 #7

Hey, this could be interesting!  Perhaps all you tanned Californian muscled
rock athletes in Lycra out there have a low grade/pull-up ratio from 
climbing all those steep never-ending cracks, whereas us English have a
high one from climbing those stubby little stanage routes with sloping
rounded breaks whilst wearing bobble hats!

Flame on, I'm waiting!

Tim

   
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: A4411DAL@vm.univie.ac.at
Subject: Re: red rocks
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 16:44:17 GMT

> Just wanted to say that I'm going to Red Rocks this
> weekend and I'm pretty happy about it.

> If anybody else is going this weekend I'll see you
> there. If not, then I won't!

I won't be there this weekend. It's too far. Have fun anyway!!

Gerhard Sorger
Vienna, Austria
a4411dal@awiuni11.bitnet

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: 60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: thanks
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:00:25 PST

I just noticed people seem to often   thank everybody for responses. So,
thanks to everyone who responded to "learning to lead".  reading them
all gave me encouragement,info,etc., and also a great way to procrastinate.
 
k. johnson
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:28:41 GMT
Distribution: usa

Fear.

In article <1992Nov14.040921.22103@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm) writes:
>It would seem that all new leaders, in part, lack that quality; it is more 
>a learned trait than genetic.  In fact, the act of learning to lead
>itself implies some lack of fear ... a fearful person is doomed to the
>dull end of the rope.
>(Some people also argue that ALL climbers lack that quality, for example my
>mother. :-)  )

Part of the leading process is to over come that fear.  Not to lose it
completely.  Long blank lead outs are useful for this.  You just switch it
off.  Very hazardous.  Portions are contrary to all reason.  So that's why
climbing is contrary to reason. [My mother would argue that, too.]

The people who handle nitro or fly high performance jets have
similar qualities.

>There is probably not one of us who can't remember doing something REALLY
>stupid in their climbing carear.  The trick is to live through it, learn, and
>DON"T do it again.  That's learning to lead!

Sure nice list at the end of your post.

>Id rather trust a new fearless leader (and watch them like a hawk), he/she's
>young and may learn yet, than trust a experienced(?) leader who knows no fear!

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

>|> 	Only a leader knows what it means to back off (and how).
>
>As far as mistakes, my personal bests have been!
>*Losing $200.00 worth of gear on a wall I was not fearless enough to do. :-)

I have left my share of bongs, chocks, slings, rings, and things.

>*Sliding down a snow decent only to find that it ended in a cliff, thank God
>the 6-pack in my rucsack broke the fall!

I went a little further and got a helicopter ride.

>*Getting arrested in the Valley for scarfing food. :-(

You have to be more discrete.

>Isn't that in the FAQ for the group???  ;-)

Not yet.
Not clear how much longer it will last.  New edicts coming down from up top.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy)
Subject: Re: Mountain Equipment clothing
Organization: University of Buckingham
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:41:28 GMT

I am posting this to the group because is might be of general interest...

In article <1992Nov17.112930.4196@gssec.bt.co.uk>, rbirrell@gssec.bt.co.uk
(Rob Birrell) writes:

>Does anyone know if its still possible to get Mountain Equipment fleece
>jackets.  They used to
>do a range in a very dense fleece material (I can`t remember the name) which
>was far more
>windproof than the Polartec fabrics that most manufacturers use.  If you know
>of a supplier,
>preferably either in Scotland or mail-order can you please let me know. 

The stuff I think you mean is called "Ultrafleece".  I've been using it for
several years and I think it's the business.  Very light, hard-wearing, 
quick-drying, compact *and* much more windproof than Polarcrap.

I've seen this clothing in the latest Cotswold catalogue.  Cotswold run a 
mail-order service from:

Cotswold Camping Ltd
Broadway Lane
South Cerney
Cirencester
Glos GL7 5UQ
Tel: 0285 860612

Brendan
-- 
********************************************************************************
Brendan Murphy					brendan%buck.ac.uk@uknet.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science			Tel: 0280 814080
University of Buckingham, MK18 1EG, UK		Fax: 0280 822245
********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:4502 rec.backcountry:8946
From: sharpe@amazon.llnl.gov (Rob Sharpe)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Hueco Tanks State Park closed !!!!
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:08:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.climbing


A friend that works for the Texas State Parks Department asked me to post
this offical release from the TPWD.


===============================================================================

Texas Parks and Wildlife News  --   Nov. 11, 1992

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
Austin, Texas 78744

For immediate release
Contact: Tom Harvey, 512-389-4453

===============================================================================

AUSTIN -- Hueco Tanks State Park near El Paso has been temporarily closed
while state officials work out a way to protect ancient rock art at the site
which has become the focus of increasing vandalism in recent weeks.

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department staff say spray paint vandalism is 
threatening Native American drawings on rock faces at the park, drawings which 
range from 800 to more than 2000 years old.

"Spray paint vandalism at Hueco Tanks has escalated into crisis situation that
requires decisive action," said Carolyn Scheffer, TPWD park operations 
director.

Today Scheffer signed an official closure order to all visitors until 8 a.m.,
Wednesday, Nov. 25 while TPWD staff work with local community to develop a plan
for appropriate, controlled access to the site.

In mid-October, park officials discovered a series of serious vandalism 
incidents. At one site, Cave Kiva, vandals had spray painted what appears to be
marijuana leaf over part of a well-known rock art pictograph. At another site,
Red Horse, vandals painted a 3'x 4' image over another well-known 6'x 10' rock
art image of a horse.

For years TPWD has been coordinating efforts to scientifically catalogue and
record the Hueco Tanks rock art, which is a priceless part of Texas' natural
heritage. TPWD resource managers have led teams of archaeologists, artists,
university professors and students, and photographers on recording expeditions
at the site. However, many areas of the park have yet to be recorded.

TPWD will hold a public hearing in El Paso during the closure period to get 
local input on ways to protect the rock art and still allow visitor access, 
such as access for guided tour groups and other controlled recreational uses.

During the period, TPWD staff encourage the public to consider Franklin
Mountains State Park near El Paso for picnicking and other day-use activities.
For information, contact Superintendent Carolina Ramos at 915-877-1528.


==============================================================================
Rob Sharpe, Lawrence Livermore National Lab, sharpe@llnl.gov
==============================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: pat@summit.psl.nmsu.edu (pat gioannini)
Subject: reslinging tricams
Organization: /home/pat/.organization
Distribution: rec.climbing
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:31:29 GMT


Is there a good place to get old tricams reslung.


pat
--
pat gioannini
pat@psl.nmsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Trip Report: A Day in Eldorado
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:12:03 GMT

In article <106480311@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
 (John Byrnes) writes:
|>> 
|>> >I think there is an attitude problem towards anybody who is not from
|>> >Colorado.  Xenophobia.
|>> 
|>
|>I don't think it's Xenophobia.  I think it's
|>fear-of-becoming-like-california:
|>Californiphobia.  (i.e. Overcrowded, and all the things that stem from
|>that.)

Hmmm, I'm confused.  Why would folks in Colorado be afraid of this?
Aren't they used to overcrowding yet?    :-)


--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|>>>>>>>Official Disclaimer <<<<<<<<<<<<
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|" Only the names here are fictitious.
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  The story, unfortunately, is
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  absolutely true. " - Joseph Brodesky
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Date: 17 Nov 1992 01:50:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <168A17A5C.WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Cheyenne Wills) writes:
> 
>I often wonder if climbs like X-M, Jules Verne, Crystal Clear, etc.
>would be put up in the same style that they had been if they where
>to be put up today.

Not very likely and I will give you one good example.

While I was away in Europe in 1988, Bob Candelaria decided to add
a bolt to the unprotected 5.10c crux of the second pitch of X-M.
For those of you unfamiliar with this classic Eldorado Canyon testpiece,
it was first led free in 1967 by Larry Dalke, most likely Kronhoffers,
a shoe that has about 1/1,000,000 the friction properties of today's
climbing shoes. If you fall off the crux of this climb, you will drop about
10-15 feet and swing into a huge chopper flake.  Suffice it to say that
you would most likely get hurt real bad.

Anyway, the climb had been led in "gut check" fashion(i.e. no pro) for
over 20 years before Bob added a bolt so that he could combine pitch 1
with pitch 2 for "convenience".

Those of us who had led the climb in its original state were outraged,
those that led the climb with the bolt(which lasted for about 3 weeks,
about the time I was in Europe!!!!) didn't seem to think the crux was
all that bad and wondered what all the fuss was about.  It sure suprised
me that people showed litle respect for the exploits of our forefathers,
but hey, climbing is a very competitive sport and as such it's ethics
decline as we search for those big numbers.

Bruce

ps - Candelaria also added a bolt to the scary start of Rosy Crucifiction,
I guess nobody told him about the #1 TCU you could get in to protect
those moves.


From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:57:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Protecting a Hueco (Waycool)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

> 
> My partner and I both lead our first climbs about 3 weeks ago.  (What a rush!)
> So far the hardest I have lead is a 5.8 slab and a 5.7 face.
> 

(Craig, this isn't directed at you alone)

To all you beginning leaders:

Please learn to write as you learn to lead.  I know homonyms are tough, but
you can do it!

"lead" -- verb, sounds like "feed".
"led"  -- past tense of lead, sounds like "dead".

"lead" -- noun, a heavy metal, sounds like "dead".


Sorry, it's Monday...

John
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Favorite Kor quote was Re: No More Wright-Ups?
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:06:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Nov11.210901.6566@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, bobh@fuji.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov11.160208.12785@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden) writes:
|> >
|> >My favorite is Kor saying "Don't fall now or we'll both go!" 
|> >to numerous partners throughout the '60s.  
|> >
|> >I love yelling this one to my second anytime my belay is marginal.
|> >

|> 
|> I prefer something a little more understated. After having led a pitch on
|> a wall, I like to yell down to the second "OK, you can jumar now ... but
|> don't get too rowdy."
|> 

I prefer something along the lines of "Don't worry, I got a #1 stopper half-
way in..."

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Re: Finger Boards?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:21:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]


Jeff wrote:
: >What do folks think about finger boards?  Do you use them?  Why or why not?
: >Do you use them because you have no other way of training or do you mix them
: >in with bouldering or climbing wall workouts?
: >
: 
Bob wrote:
: That's the great thing about a board - a significant workout only takes
: a few minutes. Put it somewhere where you walk past it several times
: each day, and hange off it each time you walk by it.

How do you use them?  Just hang from them?  (sounds boring, but then so
is alot of workout type things.)

--Bobbie
From: FQV@psuvm.psu.edu (jim bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Black Diamonds new self locking biners should be RECALLED!
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:25:53 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I have one of those Self locking Black Diamond Biners.  There is a
Problem with them!  With the one I have, If you just let the gate close,
about 1/4 the time the gate doesn't close all the way - the outer and
inner sleaves should work as one unit but they don't - so that the gate
can catch on the inner sleave and not close.  For someone who is used
to HB or simular WELL DESIGNED self locking biners this can be a real
problem.  With other self lockers you just let the gate close by it'self
and it's bomber.  I've known about this problem for sometime but that
didn't prevent a situation which occured recently.  While Jumaring,
I looked down to see the gate on the BD locker on my harness completly
OPEN!  If I had decided to sit back on my jumars I could have had a
real nasty surprise.  If you have one of these things ALWAYS check to
make sure the gate is actually CLOSED!


                            Jim Bowers
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: matt@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Matthew McGranaghan)
Subject: (?) Advice on building a wall?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:33:57 GMT


Could anyone advise me on the use of epoxy to place
holds on a bare concrete block wall?  I am thinking
about putting a few holds on the wall of my office
for quick stress-relieving workout.  This project
shouldn't have to involve our facilities management
folks ;-).

The wall is non-structural, un-painted, and made of
standard hollow concrete blocks.  It seems that drilling
into the blocks to bolt holds in place would have high
potential for weakening the blocks.  I suspect that
epoxying holds to the blocks (only over the reinforced
---non-hollow--- parts of the blocks) would be stronger.  
Perhaps epoxy and a pin or bolt would be ok, but still
might weaken the integrity of the blocks.

Any recommendations on adhesives, concerns and/or building
techniques would be appreciated.  Thanks.

-matt@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu

--
Matt McGranaghan,   Geography Dept, U of Hawaii, 808/956-8465
matt@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster)
Subject: Re: Comps. in Pittsburgh Area
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:19:39 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Yes, Mountain Dreams International will be having a competition in early   
December (5th I think).  I'll get the flyer from the store and post it to
rec.climbing.  Mountain Dreams International is on Bower Hill Rd. Phone #
is 412-276-8660
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:22:32 GMT

I can do as many pull-ups as Tom Brokaw can.

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.climbing