HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Dwight Joe's Personal Profile
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:05:40 GMT

In article <LAUNCE.92Jul19180209@apollo.med.utah.edu>, launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
> 
> Maybe dj is just trying to work things out.  Hopefully
> it's just a stage.  I don't think anybody really takes his rants as
> objective truths, so why waste the energy endlessly debating and
> berating him?  MHO is that the best way to deal with him is to ignore
> him and his ludicrous posts and let him come to the eventual
> realization that he needs to be comfortable with himself and reconcile
> himself to his past before he can move on to better things than
> pissing and moaning about the BarbarianBaboonChineseUburKultur in scaa
> and whining about not getting laid in arc.

In article <1992Jul19.015805.5934@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
> First, I have already explained that I will not waste my time
> seeking up precise references.  My aim is not to convince Mr.
> Huang; he already has his opinions.  My aim is to convince the
> thousands of undecided readers of this newsgroup.

     I imagine Dwight Joe's estimation of "thousands of undecided
readers" is unrealistics, but on the possibility even one person
might be swayed by his arguments, I urge you to continue to refute
him.  I too felt sorry for him when I read the crossposted material,
but the vitriol he posts is too full of hate to forego comment.

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:33:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: passion.HIEBELER.92Jul23183314
	<1992Jul20.213333.3225@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Jul21.184118.951@mumbo.apple.com>
	<1992Jul21.202036.19814@rice.edu> <24808@dog.ee.lbl.gov>
	<1992Jul23.072717.17394@oakhill.sps.mot.com> <yuan1.711896952@husc9>
	<19
Distribution: na
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: passion.think.com
In-reply-to: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com's message of Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:13:32 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.191332.18333@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:

> Why single out being asked that question soley because of your *look*
> while ignoring that people also get asked that question solely because
> of their *voice*?  They're both rather superficial qualities in
> people, no?

  Both are somewhat superficial qualities, but they usually indicate
vastly different things about a person.  If a person is racially
Asian, I have no idea what culture they spent most of their life in
(although often you can get a good idea just from clothes, hairstyle,
body-language, etc.).

  If a person has an accent (I mean a foreign accent, not a Southern
one), I can be reasonably sure that they did not spend the majority of
their childhood in the US.

  My example is also a taxi driver. :-)  Riding home from the airport,
the guy had an accent I did not recognize, so I asked him where he was
from.  He said "you mean originally?"  When I said "yes," he replied
"Poland", and we started talking a bit, since I know almost zero about
Polish culture.

  When I ask a person where they are from, I am almost never concerned
with their ethnicity, I am interested in what kind of culture they
have lived in, whether it was a US culture or a foreign one, or some
combination.

--
Dave Hiebeler                  | Internet: hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation  | UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!think!hiebeler
245 First Street               | Bitnet: hiebeler%think.com@mitvma.bitnet
Cambridge, MA 02142  USA       | Phone:  (617) 234-4070 (work)
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and outright grouch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:49:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23290
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and outright grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Jul22.172926.23144@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>In article <23276@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj@alice.att.com, curmudgeon) writes:
>>Actually, I disagree.  I think you mean "rich White people can escape".

>	Well, actually RICH people (no other qualifiers) can escape.
Um, well, I submit the question of William Kennedy Smith and
Mike Tyson.

>>and the news in front of you every day shows that.  It DOES show
>>that RICH white people can escape the system.  That's a big difference.
>
>	Yes and no.  Economic power tends to swamp the problems that
>stem from racism. Money DOES buy happiness (in some respects); being in
>the upper class goes you a helluva lot of clout no matter what your
>color. From where I stand, most of the variance is in economics, not race.
That's how it looks here.  Note, please, that I haven't argued for
the non-existance of racism.

>	That said, there is nonetheless some racial biases that still
>persist, despite controlling for economic class and income. For example,
>police harassment seems to center more on non-whites than whites (see
>Dee Brown and LeVar Burton's problems. The cause may not be, and probably 
>is not, racial in origin, but the effects sure look and feel like it.
It's racial in origin, or it looks that way to me.  Heck, we could
go back to Sam Cook, and note that THAT problem hasn't changed
significantly to today, just by looking in the very state I live
in, in a "nice" little town called  Teaneck, or was it Tenafly?

>	Nahhhh. Economic power has ALWAYS been a method of discrimination
>in this society; it's just that they've always been able to distract the
>unwashed masses from that fact (with money, of course......)
Well, I don't disagree that it's always been a method, but
it's a method on the upswing right now.  What's particularly
chilling is the failure of the public school system, and
how that locks out anyone whose parents don't have the provender
to send people to private school.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like free facilities granted. Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Subject: Re: Cheese
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.162303.3446@ee.gatech.edu>, wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu writes...
> 
>In article 14ak0bINNc2v@agate.berkeley.edu, judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul18.213316.10646@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>>
>>>How do you AAs like the taste of cheese?  One thing I noticed very much
>>>when I grew up was that *I COULD NOT STAND THE STUFF*!!  God, I thought it
>>>tasted disgusting.  There was no way you could get me to eat it, in whatever
>>>form.  
>><stuff deleted>
>>
>>>What about the rest of you AAs?  Tell me where I
>>>stand relative to the rest of you on this.
>>
>>
>>Nice, non-flammable topic, Jim! I love cheese, but unfortunately, most
>>varieties have a lot of fat in them. I guess mozarella and parmesan are the
>>best, healthwise.
>>

Real mozzarella from Italy contain 45% fat so it is definitely not a healthy
product.  But I can't stay away from the stuff... much better than the US
version.

I also hated cheese as a kid.  I thought even the tasteless, pre-shaped
sandwich cheese was horrible.  But after all those years, I now even love
the strong cheeses like Roquefort.  But I still can't handle chevre (very
strong goat cheese) though.

I rue the day when I develop lactose-intolerance (both my parents have
it, so I probably will).

-- Makoto
From: chuan@milton.u.washington.edu (Chuan "infamous" Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Where are you from?" (Asking someone his "nationality")
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:26:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul24.184841.20518@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>In article <YAMAUCHI.92Jul23201129@heron.cs.rochester.edu> yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
[...]
>Anyway, Brian, I don't want to reinforce the wrong impression of AAs being
>perceived as "foreigners," so the next time I get asked, I may just follow
>your advice and answer the question literally.  In a nice manner, of course.

I didn't follow the entire thread.  But why is there a problem being asked
"where are you from?"?  I usually said, "I was from such and such, but I
have lived in Seattle for 12 years."

Put yourself in the other person's place, how would you ask the question
if you are truly interested in his/her ethnicity?  This happened to me
several times.  I couldn't find a more casual and friendler way than
just a simple "where are you from?" question.  And from his/her answer,
I would (hopefully) know whether I should further engage in talking
his/her background, home country customs, experience in a new country,
adapting to a new culture, etc.

I am interested in world-wide travelling (a half-filled dream) and
different cultures.  I asked people from the Middle-East (talking
about being offensive.  Ever mix up the Iranians, Iraqi, and Jews?),
Southeast Asia (so, I can't tell a Thai from a Laotian), and even
Europe (they are "white", I know.  But they have a strange but
pleasant accent).

This situation happen both ways, I guess.  I don't think I am
discriminating or offending anyone by asking "where are you from?".
And really, if a person has racial prejudice, does it make any
difference or change his/her opinion if you are born here or not?

How about asking this way, my favorite: are you from the greater
Seattle area?  This works great especially in a university
environment.

Chuan Lee
U of Washington, Rainier City (well, you know... Mt. Rainier, rainy, ...)
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:58:44 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <131394@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>I think that's very foolish of him to ask that question since only US
>citizens can work in government research labs.

If I'm not mistaken, this is no longer an absolute requirement for NIST,
although I've little doubt it is for LLNL.

In any case, even innocent questions can be asked in malicious ways.
And the fact that it was the "chief" and not someone in personnel who
asked the question /is/ strange.  I don't blame Mr. Hira for feeling
harrassed.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gakusei@bmerh272.bnr.ca (Andre Roy)
Subject: Re: Korean Views on Race (Re: LA Times. 7-13-92 [long])
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:25:49 GMT

In article <l7e3amINN7us@news.bbn.com> ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
>Mike Fester writes:
>>Dwight Joe writes:
>>
>>>citizenship.   Japan almost won't do it.  Even the USA wouldn't concede to such
>>>outrageous demands.  But the Korean gov't is insisting that the Japanese
>>
>>The US DOES in fact recognize dual citizenship, if the other nation recognizes
>>it as well. 
>
>The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.  It is stated
>very clearly when you apply for naturalization that you give up all
>privileges and rights you had from your country of origin.  They
>emphasize that again at the actual oath-taking.
>
Yes, the United States does recognize dual citizenships.  A friend of mine (
as well as his family) have both Canadian and American citizenships.
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: An open letter to "Dear Abby"
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:54:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

In case you guys missed it, somebody just wrote to Dear Abbey about
the "geez, I can't tell what kind of Asian they are" problem. She
says to "ask them, they are proud to tell you and will not be offended".
Actually doesn't bug me that much, but I thought this was the #2 gripe
of Asian-Am against obnoxious round-eyed types. Does it tick you off
if somebody asks where you are from?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:12:43 GMT

In article <YAMAUCHI.92Jul23201129@heron.cs.rochester.edu> yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:


>
>It doesn't bother me at all to discuss my ethnicity.  It bothers me
>when people make prejudiced assumptions about my nationality...
>
It also bothers me when people make prejudiced assumptions about my
culture.

-Dan


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Degree Envy
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:55:31 GMT

In article 5321@nynexst.com, clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
[Stuff deleted]
> how
>  many Asian American families out there have this thing
>  about degrees and names of schools and universities.
>
I think just about every one that I have known had this PhD envy disease.

>  For example, you hear your relatives or parent's friends
>  discuss their kids and all you hear are PhD from
>  Berkeley, M.D. from Yale, PhD from Cornell, MD
>  from Stanford, MD/PhD from Harvard, etc. etc. etc.
>
>  Then the people who "only got Masters" feel so-o
>  inferior.  Or people who "only went to some state
>  universities", or "only got PhD in Botany" as opposed
>  to "AstroPhysics".  Even 90 year old grandmothers
>  from overseas get into the degree game, although most
>  of them haven't the foggiest idea, except they know
>  how to say "Pee Hch Dee."  Do you find it funny,
>  hilarious, or sad?
>
Mostly pissed off, because this stuff ain't what it's cracked up to be.  You see, i am
pursuing my phud here at Tech.  Oh joy.

[More stuff deleted.]

>  Does this hit a nerve among readers of s.c.a.a.?
>  Do any of the male readers have people say, "Hey,
>  your sisters are all getting PhDs, why aren't you
>  getting one?"  Or anyone's sister thinks "all non-PhDs
>  are scum?"  Or anyone's aunt getting a PhD in her
>  late 50's just so she can have one and "motivate"
>  her son to get his, because "mom got one in 3 years!~
>  Or anyone getting pressured from their relatives to
>  get a PhD, or just get one since your dad had one
>  and you're the only son, so you got to get one too?
>  And having sisters who nobody wanted them to get a
>  PhD get one instead so they can feel superior?
>  Or having 90 year old grandmother keeping track of
>  how many years each of her grandchildren spent in
>  their PhD programs?  Cousin Ping got in in 4-1/2 years,
>  isn't this your 5th year?

How about this:  you can't possibly DATE so and so because he only has a bachelors
degree, i.e. he has no future.  OR she is no good for you because she has a PHD and you only have a bachelors.  

Sometimes I wonder what ever happened to the love of learning for the sake of learning.
Oh well, I am just a lowly PhD student who took too long to finish, who'd take my
opinions seriously anyhow?




****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************
From: yuan1@husc9.harvard.edu (Nina Yuan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:21:20 GMT
 <1992Jul20.213333.3225@u.washington.edu> <1992Jul21.184118.951@mumbo.apple.com> <1992Jul21.202036.19814@rice.edu>

kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>...Ask them--most of them are proud to tell you and will not take offense.

>To this, Abby replies, "Most, but not all.  One reader wrote to say that
>she (out of curiosity) approached a gentleman with Asian features and said,
>"My friend and I have a bet on.  Where are you from?"

>The gentleman replied, "Cincinnati."

Yes, I read that column too, and I think this is the only time I've been 
motivated to actually write to Dear Abby.  I find the gentleman from
Cincinnati's response prefectly reasonably, and exactly what I would have
said (New York, in my case).  What Abby doesn't seem to grasp is that
people take offense not because others can't tell whether they are of
Chinese or Japanese ancestry, or because they are "denying their heritage"
in some way (let's not start that thread again!), but because there's
an implicit assumption in the question that the person is a "foreigner"
who's different from everyone else.

I do think I will write that letter after all; even if she doesn't print it,
hopefully it'll awaken her to the differences between Asian immigrants and
Americans of Asian ancestry.  I encourage everyone on s.c.a.a to do the same.

-nhy
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nina H. Yuan                               "It's a miracle that curiosity
nina@panix.com                              survives formal education."
yuan1@husc.harvard.edu                                  - Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Korean Views on Race (Re: LA Times. 7-13-92 [long])
Followup-To:  soc.culture.korean, soc.culture.japan
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:46:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.173810.21370@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.060929.3714@udel.edu> shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu
>(Jeong-Gyun Shin) writes:
>>Dwight Joe replies:
>
>If the Koreans want the rights of Japanese citizens, then they
>should become Japanese citizens.  So far, most Koreans in
>Japan don't want to become Japanese citizens, but they b*tch
>about how much they deserve the rights of citizenship.
Hmm, alot of Korean dont bother to get Japanese citizenship
because they will still be treated with prejudice, as soon
as anyone sees that they are "Shin-Nihonjin" in their records.
And guess what Japanese companies, as well as marriage etc all check
things like ancestry FOR SOME REASON!  Gee, I WONDER WHY? IT COULDNT 
POSSIBLY BE BECAUSE THEY ARE ETHNOCENTRIC?

>Americans, including I, take a dim view to aliens in _this_ country,
>who demand the rights of citizenship but refuse to acquire American
>citizenship.  Also, African-Americans were originally brought to this country
>against their will, but _all_ of the ones who have fought so valiantly
>for the rights entitled to all _American_ _citizens_ are _American_
>_citizens_.  These African-Americans deserve a bit of respect.
>The same is not true of the Koreans in Japan.
>
>The Koreans have hoodwinked the Japanese by exploiting the prejudices
>in that part of the world.  But the Koreans won't be able to play
>that game in the USA.
Right they dont have to.  The U.S. doesnt require them to change their
name and birth guarantees citizenship.  Cant say the same for JApan.

>If the Koreans, who are _not_ citizens of Japan, don't like the
>fair (though harsh) rules in Japan, then they should get the h*ll
>out of Japan and go back to Korea.
Gee, so you're telling Koreans in Japan whos been there for generations
to leave THEIR home!?

>Korea _is_ a place where the rules are stacked in favor of people on
>the basis of ethnicity--in favor of ethnic Koreans, regardless of their
>citizenship.
Oh, like Japan isnt?  HELLO???!!! ANYBODY HOME!?!


BTW: WHAT THE HECK DOES KOREANS IN JAPAN HAVE TO DO WITH THIS
     NEWSGROUP??!

Keep up the good work Dwight, now that you;ve shown everyone
how ignorant your are about Chinese, now you get to do that about Koreans
too.  What are going for, an asian tour?  What's the next country
you plan to open your ignorant mouth about next?
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Where are you from?" (Asking someone his "nationality")
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:37:14
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: na
	<YAMAUCHI.92Jul23201129@heron.cs
	<1992Jul24.184841.20518@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
	<1992Jul25.002642.24770@u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: passion.think.com
In-reply-to: chuan@milton.u.washington.edu's message of 25 Jul 92 00:26:42 GMT


In article <1992Jul25.002642.24770@u.washington.edu> chuan@milton.u.washington.edu (Chuan "infamous" Lee) writes:

> I didn't follow the entire thread.  But why is there a problem being asked
> "where are you from?"?  I usually said, "I was from such and such, but I
> have lived in Seattle for 12 years."
> 
> Put yourself in the other person's place, how would you ask the question
> if you are truly interested in his/her ethnicity?

  Well, that may be true for yourself, as well as many other
immigrants.  However, there is still another person whose place you
should put yourself in.  That is the Asian American who was born here
(or came here when they were so young, they don't remember any foreign
cultures).  Those people can get quite sick of being asked "where are
you from" by countless people.

  From what I've seen almost no immigrant minds being asked the "where
are you from question" (as long as it is not asked in an unkind way).
But I have seen Asian Americans who are offended by the question, even
when it is asked very nicely; I think it is because they are so sick
of being asked that, when their white friends who lived around them
for their entire life hardly ever get asked the question.

  I will admit, I made that mistake, once -- I asked a person where
she was from.  She named some little town in upstate New York.  There
was this moment of incredible awkwardness for me, as I realized how
much I had been assuming when I asked the question (namely, that I
would get an answer such as "Korea").  I have not made that dumb
mistake again.  I still ask the question sometimes, but without those
assumptions, and in a much more careful way to indicate what I am
really after ("what cultures do you have inside of you?").  I still
feel embarassed to think about that moment; it was about 5 years ago,
around the time that I first started encountering foreign people for
the first time in my life, having grown up out in the middle of a
forest near an incredibly small town.

--
Dave Hiebeler                  | Internet: hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation  | UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!think!hiebeler
245 First Street               | Bitnet: hiebeler%think.com@mitvma.bitnet
Cambridge, MA 02142  USA       | Phone:  (617) 234-4070 (work)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:45:21 GMT

In article <131394@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>
>BTW, are you suggesting that employers discriminate against naturalized
>citizens more than native born citizens?  Don't you think if they
>discriminate, they'll just discriminate all color people the same?
>

  Naturalized citizens are harder to "clear".  If they can't be
  "cleared" then they can't be assigned to classified work.
  Since the company can't fire someone for being "unclearable"
  this person ends up as deadwood.