HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sik@cs.uow.edu.au (The 24hr man)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex
Subject: Human sexuality
Date: 12 Apr 92 20:26:04 GMT
Organization: Sik-SW, Dept-Comp-Sci, Uni-Of-W'gong, NSW 2500, AUSTRALIA
Sik-Revision: 0.01!
Sik-Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about!

Conversation between Allison and Stein follows:

Allison:
>I thought I forward this to you as well as posting it, since doing anything on
>the alt.* heirarchy is REALLY iffy at Macalester these days (more and more of
>the groups are diappearing every day, and some of my postings aren't getting
>through to everyone....).  If you have a response you want to be sure I'll see,
>please forward it to me, as I may not see it otherwise.  Thanks!

Sure, no problem - I'm losing track of this discussion myself.  See article
'Hey - Stein is not pleased' (in alt.sex I think).

Stein:
> Allison,
> 
> did you see the article from Mari (Black panter) Sepp} in alt.sex under
> the subject: What to call a XX person ? And the few followups?

Allison::
>No, unfortunately, it didn't show up (many things don't any more....) on my
>computer.  I'm REALLY surprised that I can read this, as it is.....

Do you want me to dig up the article and mail it to you (OR RE-POST IT?)
(I guess what I ask you is: are you (OR ANYONE ELSE) really intrested).

Stein:
> I have work to do as well, but I for one stood up and acknowledged that I made
> a mistake with this girl vs woman business.  Quite a few people noticed this
> and said - Hey, the guy stood up and said he made a mistake - listen...
> But the discussion went on and on and on and on.

Allison:
>I know, and I'm sorry I didn't stand up and say anything at that point.  I DID
>notice, but by that time I was arguing with other people on the subject, since
>I was getting lots of angry e-mail about it.

Stein:
No problem - I got mail too - :-)  Lots of people out there has problems with
others voicing(sp?) their opinion.  We have (or at least I think we have) a 
right to voice our opinions - if other does not like it, so be it...

Allison:
>OOPS!  I forgot to do that this time, but will do so in the future.  I'm
>already eliminating sci.psychology from the header, as people from there are
>e-mailing me saying they don't want this thread over there....Please do the
>same if you haven't already.

Stein:
Yes, I have deletet sci.psychology from my headers, but I put it back on
if I feel the content of what I'm posting is (a little bit) relevant.
(Did you get in trouble with the soc.motss people as well?)

Allison:
>Allison
>amitchell@macalstr.edu
>amitchel@math.macalstr.edu

Stein:

 Stein - sik@cs.uow.edu.au
'When thou walkest through the fire, thou shall not be burned.' -Isaiah 43:2
'This brain intentionally left blank.' - Gary J. Stafford
From: fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: How about we meet half way? --->Dark Knight
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:52:42 GMT
Organization: IRCAM, Paris (France)

Eric, you again?
How pathetic.
From: 00jlrushton@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: The Real BSU election read it
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:52:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr10.155219.6103


the reason of ball states elections.....

well this year in 1992 acoording to some folks the contest was between a woman
and a fag..............................

most people said fuck the fag ( then joked about the pun ) and then said  hey
shes a woman she got honkers lets vote for her!

Most people did this twice thanks a bsu screw up.................
Plus at the end we couldnt write in Omar or even Bart Simpson.....

to win the second time

oh fresman  cars no more  ...... plus the woman won over the other....

p.s. 
 i heard Clinton was gay?? well i guess he will lose......
From: elf@polari.com
Subject: Re: To be or not to be.
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:58:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.175735.22367@wam.umd.edu>
     aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>To be or not to be, that makes all the difference in this newsgroup.

>Reaction: The aseveration made by the Gay person was taken as true, and the
>African was asked for proof that the ruler was not gay.

   Wrong!  The gay person in question responded with documentation.
The African individual was ridiculed for stating "There are no gay
people in Africa."

>Madam Elf!!! Compared Black and Homosexual discrimination, and said that 
>they were the same. Great. An apple is a fruit, and orange is  fruit. Both
>are fruits. Ergo: Apples are oranges.

   Uh, Alberto... Your entire argument just blew to Hell in that
statement.  And sent me into life-threatening fits of laughter.

   Repeat after me:

         Elf is quite male.
         Elf has been married for seven years to a lovely young lady.
         Elf is NOT gay.

>Come on, you need to include economic causes of slavery, and the type or
>relations that come from there. This is not the same for homosexuality.

   Incorrect; we can take any single point in history and proceed from
there quite validly.  Yes, Blacks were brought to the Americas for
economic reasons in the 17th and early 18th Centuries.  But these
reasons have little or nothing to do with civil rights struggle of the
20th century.  The odds that any white person who opposed Brown vs.
Board of Education was directly influenced by the fact that his
great^Nth grandsire was a slave trader are ridiculous.

   Comparatively, we _can_ draw assimiliations between the Gay struggle
and the Black one.  Both face(d) harassment in their places of
assembly.  Both face(d) discrimination in housing and employment.  Both
struggle(d) to have their equality made a legislative fact.

>I have some more references about the Oedipus Complex from the last
>5 years.

   I asked the head of my local Psych department about the theory that
children "Subconciously kill their motss parent."  His reply: "Anyone
who believes that Freud's Oedipal Complex theory is valid is
barely one step removed from believing in the Tooth Fairy."

>The debate is closed.

   Yeah, but the raising of children by queer parents goes on.  Whether
you like it or not.

         Elf !!!
From: ai210@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Steier)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: slang
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:17:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr13.021700.12693
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


Punk was also used in naval parlance for what in this century we
would call a "bottom" starting some time in the 1600's.



be well
josh
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Adream
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 03:27:31 GMT

In article <jjfe7rk@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.220813.19914@wam.umd.edu> aap@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.172854.28745@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>  
>>jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (The Chrome Jester) writes:
>>
>>
>>Do not be a pinhead. I did not compared myself to anyone. 
>
>
>Name calling is not nice.  You have already accused the homosexuals here
>of doing this....
>

Seems to be the only way to make some people understand.

>>You people have no idea about anything, seems to be.
>
>And you have no comprehension of homosexuals, seems to be.

Quite possible.

>
>
>Self parody is not the point.  Steve pointed out that Argentina is backwards
>when it comes to homosexuals.  Our culture is also backwards regarding 
>homosexuals, but not as backwards.
>

Come on FWA, you seem to be more educate than Mr. Dyer.
How do you know what's the position of Argentinians about homosexuality?
I posted once an article from The Washington Post, where the President
of the Argentinian Homosexual Community said that they are better in
Argentina than you are here.
I do not represent the Argentinian people. Not even my culture is actually
Argentinian.

>
>
>One thing.  We know what it is like to be a homosexual.  We know a lot of
>gay parents.  We know a lot about the heterocentrism of society.  We know
>how the homosexuals have been oppressed in the name of Freud.  We have
>first hand, direct experience about what we speak.

I agree that you have a lot of experience. It does not mean knowledge.

>However, you deem to inform us, from your wealth of knowledge, that we
>do not understand the world in which we live (the world of homosexuality,
>a world that you know nothing about).  Yes, we get indignant when people
>tell us about this, with no experience.

Here we go again. I did not said that you do not understand the world 
of homosexuality. I said that most homosexuals have so incorporated the
heterosexual/sexist world in their minds, that they cannot separate 
themselves from the opressor.


>
>start telling us what is wrong with our lives.  Learn where we are coming
>for before you start telling us that we should not be allowed to adopt
>children.  Learn where we are coming from before you start spouting your
>theories about homosexuality.
>

I did never said anything about what is wrong with your lives.
I have never said that you should not be allowed to adopt children. This is 
a lie, and I am getting tired of it. 
I did not present any theory about homosexuality.
So, stop with the fantasy about what I said or what I did not said.
Someone said once: If you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes true.
DOn't do that with me.

>Then perhaps, you will understand our anger.
>
Then, perhaps, you will stop putting words in my mouth.

>
>
>
>Jeff
>-FWA

AAP
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Adream
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:02:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.205903.10715@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>  
jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (The Chrome Jester) writes:
> 
> You seem to state that your point is that you don't think it's wise for
> homosexuals couples to raise children because without proper masculine
> and femanine rolemodels the child will not develop something called an
> "Oedipus complex" (or an "Electra complex"), and the lack of such a
> complex would be detrimental to the child's well being.
> 
> How close am I?  I'm simply trying to find out EXACTLY what you're
> point is so that you won't have to say "That's not what I meant!"

Real close. And, I also said that because I believe that homosexual  
couples follow the man-like and woman-like model that society sees as good  
(One dominant and one dominated), the Complex might be well resolved  
anyway. 


> 
> JOhn.
> -- 

AAP
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Adream
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:28:06 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Apr17.035500.7643@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>Would you, or anyone else, tell me that in homosexual relations both psrtners
>are at the same level in terms of the dominant role?

Yes.

> And, which ever is your
>answer, does it apply to both?

Yes.



Blair and I are equals.  Absolute equals.

George and Ricky are equals, Max and Dwayne are equals, Roger and Dan
are equals, Catherine and Sally are equals, Karen and Julie are equals,
Mike and Jim are equals, Jim and Drew are equals....

Shall I continue?


Don't assume that your heterosexual roles apply to us, because they
don't.




FWA
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Subject: Re: Babies and psyche
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:57:16 GMT

In article <92095.120108QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>, QAA@psuvm.psu.edu (Tim Bieling) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr4.160825.22875@wam.umd.edu>, aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo
|> Pinkas) says:
|> >
|>
|> I've read through all
|> of your posts and followups regarding the issue of gay parents, etc.
|> The theme I pick up from them is that you don't like the idea of
|> gay/lesbian couples raising kids - that somehow the kids will have
|> some "warped" sense of reality and an "abnormal" view of society..
|> (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am)
|> 
|> You've been given actual cases where the kids in such a family
|> situation were well-adjusted - yet you cling to "I don't like that".
|> These examples prove that such a family unit CAN work.  I'm not
|> saying that ALL gay/lesbian family units will work perfectly, but
|> the fact that there are examples that do - why would you refuse
|> to let children grow up with gay/lesbian parents?  

Just to add a personal opinion to the above discussion, I have a good friend
who is a minister of music at a large church.  This person has the best 
relationship with children of all ages that I've ever seen in any adult.
The babies all run to him, little children tag around after him and crawl
up in his lap whenever he sits down, the youth groups all request him for
a chaperone or sponsor for their activities, they confide in him and ask
his advice for all their problems and questions.  I have know him and some
of these kids long enough to watch them grow up in this church and have 
heard those young adults give my friend credit for being the most positive
influence in their lives growing up outside of their immediate family.  I 
remember when my oldest nephew first started showing signs of an unusual
musical ability I couldn't wait to introduce him to my friend, I hoped my
nephew would grow up to be just like my friend.  My friend would love to
have children of his own.  I think he would be a terrific parent, but he
will probably not ever have any children.  You see, he is gay and that sort
of thing would be frowned upon.  I think this is a tragedy.  If my nephew
does grow up to be "just like" my friend, that will be fine with me.  But,
I hope he won't have to deal with a society which is "just like" the one 
we live with.
-- 



************************************************      
*Ann B. Carlson (carlson@ab00.larc.nasa.gov)   *       O .
*MS 366                                        *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                  *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23665-5225                        *             \\\  \\
*(804) 864-7050                                *
************************************************
From: u2079109@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: INFO WANTED
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:45:42 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne


Could someone please email me a copy of the article that was posted 
re: the Gay & Lesbian action at the Academy Awards last week. Also any info
on the group "Catherine Did It"- the movie Basic Instinct is being released
in Oz soon and I'm interest in organizing some protests around it.

                             OO Cheers from Dorothy in the Land of Oz 
                             ++ 

email: u2079109@ucscv.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Foard and FWA Rail Me About Posting As Ronnie Jr.
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:52:37 GMT

In article <9204081503.AA03918@Compuserve.Com> 70750.2052@Compuserve.Com ("Ronnie Jr.") writes:

>Now, onto your accusation that I am ashamed or too chicken-shit to post
>my real name.  Not only YOUR quote above, but this one from dauber@sgi.com
>(Jeff Dauber):
>
>>I can easily state why Tim, myself, Lawrence Ford, DJK, and even Jack Royce
>>are far superios to idiots like you and the dick knight.
>>
>>We all are willing to sign our real names to our posts.  You and the cowardly
>>knight hide behind pseudonyms.
>>
>First of all, if Dark Knight posted a real mail address, he would be
>sendsysed 10 times within a day.  If you deny this, you are full of shit.


He is afraid to stand up for what he says.  Therefore, he is a coward.

Simple.

>As to me posting using my real name, I think your homo pals are on a
>head-hunt for me as is.  They are already working on getting me kicked
>off of ALL net access.  They also seem QUITE eager to pursue either
>legal or illegal harassment OFF the net, if they could find out my real
>name.  Evidence, you say?  Not to mention the original threat by Nelson
>Minar to have me investigated by the police, this was posted just
>yesterday by Nathan Mehl:

You are afraid to stand behind your words.  Therefore, you are a coward.

You seem to have an understanding of what people want to do to you for
what you say.  You are too afraid to say your peace and then live with the
ramifications.  That is what cowards do.  You can rationalize all you want,
however, all the evidence, including what you yourself have said, makes
it even more evident.


>If I threatened you with a band of Nazis coming over and tormenting you
>should you reveal your real address, I bet you wouldn't do it.

I post under my real name.  Should you want to find me, you certainly
could.

>Similarly, I will not reveal my real name.  The potential for unwanted
>harassment far outweighs any gain in credibility I would receive.

You have no credibility as it stands, coward.  You also have no integrity.

Hope that feels good.


>>Simple, huh asshole.
>>
>I just explained it.  You tell me...  By the way, if I'm an asshole, I
>guess you want to fuck me, eh Jeff?


I am into people for their minds, not their bodies.  You have a body, but
since you clearly have no mind, I am not interested.




FWA
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Adream
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 03:50:41 GMT

In article <92106.193654QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>Alberto,
>
>I've been following the various threads in this group, some of which
>you continued to follow up on.  You are at fault for the flaming just
>as anyone else, yet you cry like a wounded puppy when someone hurts
>your feelings.

I do not see why I am responsible for the flaming. 
I do not want to prove anything not to convince anyone. I read the points
presented here. I give an opinion. If anyone finds it interesting, it is OK
with me. If nobody finds it isnteresting, it is also OK with me. I do not
expect anyone to get convinced of what I am saying. I might be way wrong,
or may be not. 

>
>You started out by being opposed to gay/lesbian couples raising
>children - when presented with sample evidence that children in
>existing gay/lesbian parented families are every bit as well
>adjusted (perhaps more so), you still didn't let up.  (The
>articles are long since gone, or I'd quote you)

I do not believe 100% on that evidence.
>
>Then you started in with this psychoanalytic stuff, citing tons
>of "references" to "support" your arguments - you got flamed for
>that as well.

I cited the references because someone asked for them. Otherwise, I would
have never cited them. I just give an opinion, not a scientific, researched
opinion based in facts.
Actually, when this al started, I just said: I feel that this is not OK 
(About shearing kids).

>
>Now you're complaining that your "truth" is being brushed off, but
>that a gay person's "truth" is held as fact.  How about you start
>listening to what the various gay people have to say here, and stop
>relying on clinical BS.  The Psych* professionals are only guessing
>at best, and I don't trust them one bit.  They might be doing
>some good work, but they put a bias into their work.

Again and again the same thing. 
I listen to what Gay people say, and I disagree. I might be wrong. I never
said that I have the truth in my hands. I give an opinion based in what I
know. Period.


>
>In summary, Alberto, when you walk a mile in a gay person's shoes,
>you come back and tell us how it went.  You're soo good at tossing
>out "research", and this, and that, but you haven't experienced
>what others are telling you - try that for a change.

I guess that would be hard for me to try it. Anyway, to be is not the same
as to know.
Of course, I am not saying that I know.


>
>-Tim

AAP
From: entropy@yaya (Lawrence C Foard)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: FJ Needs A History Lesson
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:30:49 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In article <9204071411.AA03746@Compuserve.Com> 70750.2052@Compuserve.Com ("Ronnie Jr.") writes:
>Oh, gosh... The little sissy Dutch wanted to remain neutral. 

And the same thing will happen to queers if they follow your advice of going
back into the closet.

>>Thank you for saving me and the net a lot of time in figuring out where you
>>come from mentally.
>No, problem... the mere fact that you PROUDLY admit your homosexuality
>helped us all figure out LONG ago the warped area YOU come from mentally.

And the fact that you hide behind aliases shows that your ashamed of who
you are. Don't whine about accounts being taken away, both myself and Tim
Pierce have lost accounts because of this attack, it has not silenced us.

>But it IS my point.  If you people mailbomb us, just because our views
>don't agree with yours, how can you complain when you get it back in spades?

First of all I mail bombed no one, second of all no one has provided any
evidence that there was infact a prior sendsys attack against yourself,
if it had happened it could be verified by numerous sysadmins on news.admin.

Even if I had mail bombed you it doesn't give you the right to crash
machines used by several people. sendsys is an attack on the machine and
the network. If someone did attack your site then file a complaint with the
proper authorities..

>No, but I will defend his right to fight fire with fire.

The only time you have a right to respond to an attack with another attack
is when it is your only option. It certainly was not the only option
available in this case.

-- 
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are 99.44% true.            ------  0<p<1  
Hackers do it for fun.  |  Being Bisexual squares your         \    / therefore
"Profesionals" do it for money. |  probability of not getting   \  / p^2<p and
Managers have others do it for them. |  laid on a saturday night.\/ 1-p^2>1-p 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Straight Child molesters?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 10:41:40 GMT


In article <4ZHViB1w164w@Nitro.CtEdge.COM>
djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM writes:

>--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------

Do your part, fellow citizens: don't waste your time on
these bozos.  All it does is lead to pollution by bigots.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: picard@IASTATE.EDU (David B Roy)
Subject: Re: FJ Needs Some History Lessons
Reply-To: picard@IASTATE.EDU (David B Roy)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:05:54 GMT

I was going to post a historical followup pointing out just how much Ronnie
needs to learn some REAL history, since I'm a history student with WWII as a
specialty, but that wouldn't be appropriate to this newsgroup.  Suffice it to
say that Ronnie doesn't seem to know much of anything about history, and that
could easily carry-over to his knowledge about homosexuality.  But then, what do
you expect from a member of the Nazi party (or at least, he sounds like one).

Dave Roy
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality