HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cone and Overwork?
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:40:58 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Sep3.005800.7626@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>So.  Let's say a pitcher now starts 32 games and lasts an average of
>7 innings each time.  So he pitches 224 innings.  I think that he could
>start 40 times, lasting an average of 6 1/3 innings per start, thus 
>pitching about 253 innings, and probably put less stress on his arm.
>
>Does that make sense, or am I even more confusing this time around?

Perfect sense. Interesting to note that one of the reasons Jim Kaat
wanted the Reds to use a 4 man rotation when he was the pitching coach
and Pete Rose the manager was that he felt pitching in a 4 man rotation
strengthened the pitchers arm because he threw more frequently. This
if true, would also seem to mean fewer batters faced after getting tired,
because if your arm is stronger, you'll tire later in the game.

It certainly makes a lot of sense, but its highly unlikely anybody would
go back to it nowadays, because pitchers are convinced it hurts their
arms, because thats the accepted theory.

Thanks for the explanation.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I want to be the all being, master of time, space and dimension. Then I
want to go to Europe!"   
                                  Steve Martin
********************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Asterisk( WAS Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:24:06 GMT


In article <1992Sep2.181415.2667@pdn.paradyne.com> oxley@pdn.paradyne.com  
(Don Oxley) writes:
> IMHO, even though officially Aaron had more balls clear the fence,
> Ruth still wears the crown.  Aaron had more seasons, more AB per
> season.  Then there is the argument about playing in a different era
> and such, but I still give the nod to Ruth.  
>
> Did they ever remove the astericks from the record book next to
> Maris' record?  Just wondering.

Nope. They never put it there in the first place.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kthompso@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Thompson)
Subject: Canseco in postseason (was Re: A's Lineup!)
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:28:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.162644.3837@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>I don't care how good this Witt fellow is (and I hear he is bad.)  Canseco
>is an MVP type player -- the kind that can dominate a series.

I imagine Gidi saw (living here on the Peninsula), but an interesting theory
was in the SJ Mercury News earlier this week -- that part of the motivation
of this trade, even if subconsciously, was that Canseco has absolutely sucked
in two of the 3 World Series he's played in -- and the 3rd one doesn't count,
it was against Giants pitching :).  Seriously, remember how bad he was
against the Dodgers in '88?  One HR in game 1 or 2, then *nothing*.  I think
he's .065 or something for the '88 and '90 series combined.  Makes Barry
Bonds look like a clutch postseason performer.  I still haven't decided if
this was a good trade or not -- I don't think we'll know until we see who's
playing for the A's and Rangers next April, and how Sierra does in the
stretch -- but people do seem to forget how much Canseco sucked in his World
Series career (sorry, I don't remember ALCS stats).

Kevin Thompson
[Go Orioles!]



-- 
kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov     Artificial Intelligence Research Laboratory
(415) 604-4767 (voicemail)        NASA-Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Managing in the AL
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:11:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.202005.15065@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
>This whole statement is incorrect.  I know I've heard that the average
>DH batting average is ~.250.  Could one of the Stat Heads help me out?

Last year, the DH batting average was .253.  The league average was .260.
But this doesn't tell the whole story.  The DH SLG was .407, compared to
league average of .395, and the DH OBA was .338, compared to the league
average of .329.

I don't have easy access to pitcher hitting, but as a good first
approximation, we can look at what the number 9 hitter on NL teams did last
year.  The number 9 spot in the NL batted .168, slugged .222, and had a
.222 OBA.  League averages in the NL last year were .250 BA, .373 SLG, and
.317 OBA.

In other words, the DH has a real, substantial effect.  Scoring in the AL
was about 4.5 runs per team per game, compared to about 4.1 runs per team
per game in the NL.  This seems to be solely due to the DH: if you throw
out DH and pitcher batting stats, and recompute league averages, they're
pretty much the same across leagues.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves 15 to protect
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:18:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Politically Incorrect and Proud of It

In <1992Sep01.193031.12954@brtph560.bnr.ca> dbloom@bnr.ca (David Bloom P025) writes:

 >Glavine
 >Smoltz
 >Avery
 >P Smith
 >Wholers
 >Nied
 >Gant
 >Justice
 >Mercker
 >Klesko
 >K Mitchell
 >M Nieves
 >Olson
 >D Sanders
 >Pendleton

 >Additions, Subtractions ?

The Atlanta Journal had an article a couple of weeks ago that analyzed
who will, won't, and might be protected. Here are their views:

Pitchers:
For sure: Glavine, Avery, Smoltz, Mercker
Possibly: Donnie Elliot, Leibrant, Neid
(P. Smith and Wohlers improvements could force a rethinking of this)

Catchers:
For sure: Javier Lopez
Possibly: Olson

First Base:
For sure: Klesko
Possibly: Hunter

Second/Third/SS
For sure: Pendelton
Possibly: Carabello, Castilla, Blauser

OF:
For sure: Gant, Justice, Nieves, Tarasco, Nixon OR Sanders
Possible: Nixon AND Sanders, Mitchell

SS Chipper Jones and OF Mike Kelly don't have to be protected.

(Any questions or responses, send me e-mail. I'll be away from my
computer for about 2.5 weeks).


-- 
Jason Woodward | EE Graduate Student | Georgia Tech | Go Braves

Bill & Al & Hillary:  They've got what it takes, to take what 
                      you've got - they will rob you blind.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: The FASS Theatre Company <fass@math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Jays 15
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:34:24 GMT

Keeping in mind that Carter, Henke, Key, Lee, Maldonado, Winfield, and Cone
are all up for free agency here are the 15 Jays I would protect:

John Olerud 1B
Robbie Alomar 2B
Kelly Gruber 3B (sue me I've always liked Kelly)
Devon White CF
Turner Ward OF
Derek Bell OF
Par Borders C
Carlos Delgato (sp?) C
Ed Sprague C
Jack Morris P
Juan Guzman P
Todd StottlemeyerP
Duane Ward P
Mike Timlin P
Randy Knorr C
 
I'm reading over this list and noticed I protected 4 catchers...hmmm...
any other suggestions.
 
*******************************************************************************
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**                                                                           **
**  I don't believe in casual sex...                                         **
**                                  That's why I wear a tux.                 **
**                                                                           **
**  Lee.                                                                     **
*******************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for RFs
Originator: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:37:40 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Larry Walker, Montreal		6.42
Bobby Bonilla, New York		6.37
Felix Jose, St. Louis		6.21
Tony Gwynn, San Diego		6.14
David Justice, Atlanta		5.79
Paul O'Neill, Cincinnati	5.50
Andre Dawson, Chicago		4.93
NL AVERAGE			4.93
Darryl Strawberry, Los Angeles	4.83
Willie McGee, San Francisco	4.78
Wes Chamberlain, Philadelphia	4.54
Eric Anthony, Houston		4.41

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Danny Tartabull, New York	7.90
Tom Brunansky, Boston		6.91
Rob Deer, Detroit		6.22
Joe Carter, Toronto		5.94
Jose Canseco, Oakland		5.66
Joe Orsulak, Baltimore		5.65
Daryl Hamilton, Milwaukee	5.61
Ruben Sierra, Texas		5.57
Dante Bichette, Milwaukee	5.39
Mark Whiten, Cleveland		5.31
Jay Buhner, Seattle		4.91
AL AVERAGE			4.89
Pedro Munoz, Minnesota		4.74
Phil Plantier, Boston		4.28
Jim Eisenreich, Kansas City	3.86
Dan Pasqua, Chicago		3.85
Von Hayes, California		3.71

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Subject: Re: BLOCKBUSTER TRADE!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:44:00 GMT

In article <9209010309.AA24539@oahu.cs.ucla.edu>, gds@CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes...
>The A's traded Jose Canseco to Texas for Ruben Sierra, Bobby Witt, and
>Jeff Russell.
> 
>I just heard this during Game 2 of the Atlanta-NY doubleheader.

OK, folks, let's see how this one can be explained...

From Oakland's perspective, they get a switch-hitting outfielder who is younger
than Canseco, a quality set-up man, and a pitcher not named Joe Slusarski.  In
exchange for Canseco.  If not for the contract situations of these players,this
might be an even deal--I hesitate to agree with this.

If I look at this deal from Texas' perspective, they traded two guys that 
weren't going to sign anyway and a perennial question mark in Witt for a 
legitimate superstar outfielder.  I know Jose can be a distraction (hell-he IS
a distraction), but Sierra supposedly has somewhat of an attitute problem as
well.

It doesn't make sense that a week after the Cone-for-Kent-and-a-six-pack-of-
Labatt's deal that Texas was able to swing this deal.  Seems to me that
Sierra's value should have been depressed at least as much as Cone's was,
given that he had pretty much stated he was leaving Texas at the end of the
year.  It is particularly suprising that this deal was made given the fact
that Ruben won't be playing for a while due to the chicken Pox.

I have a great deal of respect for Sandy Alderson, but this trade has the 
looks of an absolute disaster for Oakland.  Sierra is going to go into
contract negotiations knowing that if he doesn't sign, this trade is going to
leave mucho egg on the face of Alderson.  In all, I don't like the situation
Alderson's gotten himself into.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce 'Slower than Sam Horn' Hasch           hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
Bill Ripken Anti-Fan Club                    O's all the way in '92!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Reds win third straight with pitching, power  Phil/Cin  Aug 25
Summary: 7-1 win/Atlanta loss puts Reds 4 1/2 back
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:28:49 GMT

Cincinnati batters knocked around Greg Mathews for five innings before
he was mercifully removed after qualifying for his third straight loss.
Tim Belcher came to form: he pitched 8+ innings of one-run ball
to lead the Reds to a 1-7 blowout of the Phillies at Riverfront tonight.
Belcher (11-12) may well become the Red's horse for a while with Greg
Swindell having back troubles.  Tim has had his problems, but he seems
to be pitching well in his last few starts, exceptionally well tonight.
Swindell was earlier lifted from his expected Wednesday start due to
stiffness in his back.  He received a cortisone shot and remains iffy
for a start in one of the games in New York on Friday.

Combating the onslaught of mediocrity, the Red's offense seems to be
springing to life again: they scored seven runs off Phiilies pitching,
five of those runs came with two outs.  The Reds had been suffering
from a severe case of "two-out-what's-the-point"-itis for the last few 
weeks.  

There might be a stirring in the Reds lockerroom now, though.  With
tonight's win and Atlanta's loss the Red's find themselves just
4 1/2 games out::quite amazing when you consider how poorly the
Reds have played lately.
Lou Piniella says the Reds are on the verge of a real streak,
and Cinci is playing 8 of their next 12 at home (where they have
by far the best record in baseball) against the NL east (against
whom Cinci has had considerable success this year).  It seems
eminently possible and with any luck the Braves will start to
hear footsteps...

Back to the game:
Barry Larkin hit a two-run homer (a wierd one that hit the top of
the wall, the restraining wall behind the outfield wall, then bounced
back, hit the outfield wall again and bounced back into playing
territory again before being called a home-run by second base umpire
Dana DeMuth), and Joe Oliver hit a three-run shot to ice it for 
the Reds in the fifth.
Also... in the second, after Bip Roberts grounded out and Reggie
Sanders popped out, Larkin walked and scored after Darnell Coles
singled and Dave Martinez doubled.  Coles was thrown out on the
play by Stan Javier and Jay Bell, and he was removed from the game
with a sprained ankle.  It is likely he or Chris Sabo will be placed
on the DL.
  The wild thing pitched the last inning and annoyed more than his
share of batters, catchers, umpires, etc.  After throwing behind
Roberts with two outs then walking him, he wild pitched with
Sanders at the plate then hit him, enducing a warning from plate 
umpire Harry Wendlestedt.  A defense for the guy:  hey! he's never
had any control problems::a few wild pitches here and there are part
of an intricate plan which mortal man (you and I) cannot hope to
understand.  He scares the living Bejesus out of those he faces.
  Hope to have more to say tomorrow!

RStimets
From: yl44729@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rick Lin )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:02:34 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana



I don't know too much about the Toronto Blue Jays.  Can anyone tell me just
how good Kent and Sprague are for the Mets to give up David Cone?
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: <None>
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:12:38 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <5440@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
> Thus spake 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard):
>>
>>Why not Tabler?  Is 50-102 (or whatever) not a big enough sample size?
> 
> Exactly.  Especially after you take into account the fact that you're only
> looking at Tabler because he was the extreme point in a large population of
> players.  If I toss 200 coins 100 times each, one of them will likely show
> a very skewed ratio of heads to tails, even if all the coins are fair.
> 

	From a statistical standpoint, 102 AB is enough in this kind of
situation for a sample size.

	Also, are you saying that it is impossible for someone to be very good
at one thing, especially if the one thing he is good at he is much better than
other players? The same logic you use can be applied to closing pitchers with
regards to saves vs blown saves.

Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Stottlemyre 1-hits Chisox
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:27:57 GMT

Because the Lovable Cubbies were shot out of the sky by the MLB Wednesday
night blackout rule, I was forced to watch this masterpiece pitched by
Blue Jay Todd Stottlemyre against the White Sox, who lost a chance to
gain ground on the Athletics.

Don't get me wrong, Stottlemyre pitched one whale of a game, giving
up his only hit, a double, to Dan Pasqua, but Pasqua committed two of the five
errors that led to the 9-0 rout. Talk about your bad ballgame. Every
error or miscue commited by the Good Guys seemed to be converted to
runs by the Jays.

At least they get the day off before they travel to Arlington for the
weekend.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  A brain cramp,
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  that's what it
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  is, a brain cramp!
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  "You got a problem
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |   with that?" 
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |   -- Roger Clemens
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Sean Ross
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:43:30 GMT

He obviously can't hit.  Can he play defense?  Center field?  Is he as
good as Devon White defensively?  If not, why do the Red Sox want him?
(I know, he's gotta be better than Herm Winningham.  But is there a
rule saying that the Sox have to populate their bench with .200
hitting scrubs with no power and no walks?)

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Twins' record against individual teams in the AL for 1992
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:02:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20125
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


 I had made a mistake in my earlier posting when I said that
the Twins have split their season series with the Orioles,
Indians & the Yanks. Actually it is Orioles Indians & the Brewers. 
The Twins have a winning record this season with the Yanks. 
7 wins & 5 losses.

      TWINS RECORD AGAINST INDIVIDUAL TEAMS

AL-EAST

TEAM      GAMES    WON      LOST
-----------------------------------
Toronto     9       5        4 

Baltimore  12       6        6 

New York   12       7        5 

Claveland  12       6        6 

Milwaukee  12       6        6 

Detroit    12       9        3 

Boston     12       9        3 
------------------------------------
Total      81      48       33 
----------------------------------------

AL-WEST

TEAM      GAMES    WON      LOST
------------------------------------
Chicago     9       3        6 

Oakland    10       5        5 

Seattle    10       5        5 

Texas      11       5        6 

Kansas      7       3        4

California  6       6        0
-------------------------------------
Total      53      27       26 
-----------------------------------

Grand     134      75       59 
Total
------------------------------------

S.H
Win or lose; Twins forever.....
From: jeffl@houdini.sybase.com (Jeff Lichtman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Grumbling about Canseco
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:11:26 GMT
Organization: Committee to Increase The Entropy

In article <4200329@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
> He claimed to have a back injury and left the park with the bases loaded a
> few games back.  LaRussa wanted to pinch hit him in this situation but was
> forced to use a different player when Canseco left.  This prompted Terry
> Steinbach (and others) to say Canseco was not a team player.
> 

Nope.  I was at that game.

Canseco started the game, and had already been removed because of his sore
back.  Eric Fox played in right field in his place.  Canseco decided to leave
the clubhouse early to attend to some personal business.  His leaving was
a breach of baseball etiquette, but had no effect on the outcome of the game.
---
Jeff Lichtman at Sybase
{mtxinu,pacbell}!sybase!jeffl  -or- jeffl@sybase.com
"Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:13:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.183229.3136@cis.ohio-state.edu> miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:
>	The integrity of the game does not reside solely in competition. It is 
>comprised of a variety of elements which combine to give it its unique 
>character and identity. The more elements you change, the farther removed
>from the original it becomes and the more compromised its integrity becomes.

Thank you for stating the case for tradition so succinctly, a case
which many fans share, although I do not.

One of the charms of baseball (for me, anyway) is its weird 
combination of tradition and innovation.  The Game has never
reached a point of perfection that everyone involved could sit
back and agree that no further changes were needed.  I was 
reminded of this recently while talking with someone who
grew up in northern California in the 60's and 70's.  He
reminisced about his boyhood heros of the Oakland A's of
the time; for him, this is a large part of his personal
baseball tradition.  However, I remember very clearly how
heretical Charley Finley was perceived at the time; and that
colorful uniforms, facial hair, and kangaroo leather
shoes were regarded as evil attacks against the integrity
of the Game.

Sometimes, it seems that some fans think there is a Platonic
Form of Baseball from which certain rule changes or other
modifications detract.  Perhaps those who are better trained
in metaphysics than me can elucidate on this point.

It is interesting to review some of the rules that have been
part of baseball's tradition at some time or another, like 
throwing a ball at a baserunner to get him out, or allowing
a pitcher to apply saliva to the ball, or forbidding non-whites
to play at the MLB level.  Personally, I'm glad all of these
traditions were changed, and I don't feel baseball is any the
less for it.

Remember, at one time there was no Green Monster, no ivy
in Wrigley Field, no batting helmets, and no Harry Carry (I think).
But now we have all of these wonderful additions to the
traditions of baseball, and many more, including the 
designated hitter; divisional playoffs; and the greatest
of all, Domed Stadiums!

So, I have no use for "original" baseball.  Because baseball
changes, baseball survives.

-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |    sieferme@u.washington.edu          |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |    (206) 685-3104                     |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball