From: ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Essay Time for Felix  (Was: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:32:41 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

In article <C1A2py.4ou@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix) writes:
>
>>arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>>>
>>>Indeed, showing that Felix's arguments against ethics on muds also "prove"
>>>that apartheid is not wrong as long as the whites get away with it, is
>>>unlikely to convince Felix.
>>
>>There are some extremely serious things wrong with Ken's sentence, above.
>>
>>1) I am not arguing against ethics on muds.  I am arguing that there are no
>>rights guaranteed to players on muds, and also that there are no such things
>>as 'objective ethics' in which one possesses 'rights' even though the
>>possession of those rights means less than a hill of beans to anyone else.
>>
>>2) I believe that apartheid is wrong.  I believe that apartheid is morally
>>unethical.  I do not believe that blacks have rights under apartheid, because
>>that's what apartheid's all about -- denying privileges to the other guys.
>>Rights are what the oppressed in South Africa *are trying to get*.
>
>I think we almost got ya there, Felix.  Ignore the word "rights" for a
>minute.  Based on your paragraph 2 above, it seems like you believe
>that there is some basic human privilege, or entitlement, or need,
>that the blacks in South Africa deserve, but are not getting.  They
>don't have the *power* to get it right now, but they deserve it
>nonetheless.
>
>1.  Explain the substantive difference between the elusive "it"
>    the blacks in South Africa don't have, and the lofty, muddle-
>    headed "rights" that Ken and I go on about but in which there's
>    no point because it's just a silly abstraction unless there's
>    someone with a sharp stick present to dole them out.  In
>    particular, what is your basis for your belief that apartheid
>    is "morally unethical", and what is the difference between
>    that basis and the brand of pointless abstraction that Ken
>    'n' Friends are apt to bandy about in this forum with such
>    distressing singlemindedness?
>
>2.  You now say that you are not against ethics on muds.  Why
>    is the project of trying to improve ethics on muds a target
>    of your ridicule?  In particular, you cite that mud players
>    do not have "rights" guaranteed to them.  Compare this situation
>    to that of the blacks in South Africa.  They do not have
>    "rights", in your sense, and they, just like mud players, often
>    suffer mistreatment within their respective domains.  But
>    apparently it *is* desirable to improve the situation for
>    South African blacks.  Would you balk at doing so because,
>    at some relief conference, it was consistently asserted that
>    these blacks have *rights*?  But they don't.  Or do they?
>
>
>Papers are due in by Saturday at noon.  As always, neatness counts.

I can't *believe* I'm reading this.
 
Look, you bleeding-hearts, a mud is **1:1 analogous** with running,
say, a D&D game in your home.  You can invite anyone you want to the
game, you can treat anyone's *character* any way you want, and you
have the right to tell players to get lost.

Think about it, the wizards and gods *own* the mud, and they invite
you to it by advertising it on the net.  You have to live by the 
"rules of the house", or you won't be invited back.  Also, the gods
can do anything to your characters that they want.

Now, if wizards and gods want to keep their mud popular, they will
live by a certain set of ethics and try to fair.  But nothing says
they have to do it that way.  It's their mud, they can do whatever
they want.  LIVE WITH IT.  Nothing about a god/wizard's totalitarian
rule of a mud *resembles* South Africa, and you know it!  

Really, if you want "player's rights" start your own damn mud up
and leave the rest of us alone.  Get busy, you have a lot of work
to do!!

cpk

-- 
"The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only.  If you gotta load or un-
load, go to the WHITE ZONE.  You'll love it.  It's a way of life!" --Zappa

Technology always seems to keep one step ahead of human wisdom.
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