From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy, Bloody Hypocrisy II
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 16:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.033809.1252@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis) writes:
>
>But this I will tell you: I am against the pro-choice movement
>simply because of the abuse of abortion, i.e. convenience, etc. 


I am pro-choice. I am not pro-choice because of convenience. I do not 
advocate abusing abortion. In other words, I agree with your precepts, and
I am still pro-choice.



>No teenage girl should have 5 abortions. You are ignorant of a   
>severe problem with our society if you think that that is acceptable.

I, frankly, don't think it *is* acceptable.  Does my finding it unacceptable
give me the right to tell her to not have them?

If she was educated about birth control, then about the risks of multiple
abortions (death, sterility), do you think she would be as likely to do this?
Americas educational system has been all but dismantled over the last ten 
years.

If we want children to understand that abortion is *not* to be used as 
birth control, let's educate them.


>I find it very amusing that most of these people who are "pro-choice"
>also support gun control. Might I bring something to your attention?
>The Constitution guarantees our rights to both abortions and the
>right to bear arms.

You can bear arms if you have a license and a history check and a 7 day
wait period. No conflict with the constitution.



> Yet now, we have to have gun control because 
>some people abuse this privilege.

Be careful about what you call 'gun control'.



> If we don't have control of
>abortions, it will continue to be abused.


Whether or *not* we attempt control of abortions, it will be abused.


> Most "pro-choice"
>supporters want no control. This is ludicrous. Man, or woman, 
>(God I hate PC!!!!)


Silly to notice they are  not all men isn't it.


> has proven throughout history that they WILL
>ALWAYS abuse their rights. Look at our judicial system for an 
>excellent example. Look around you. Abuse is everywhere. Alcohol.
>Drugs. TV. Divorce. We can't let abuse of abortion make things worse.


Good luck legislating responsibility. Even our *legislators* are irresponsible.
Do you think passing laws doing more regulating will help?

>If we spent half the time that we use debating this stupid issue
>trying to prevent all these "unwanted" pregnancies, then abortion
>really wouldn't matter. But no, we have to argue about the quick fix.


Define what the quick fix is.

>Open your eyes people. Stop being so damn impassionned that you can't
>see the whole picture. Pro-life.....you will ruin the lives
>of countless people. Pro-choice....you will abuse a right to the 
>point that the consequences will be worse than you could ever imagine.


Then please point out the alternative.

>The Greeks would leave babies on mountain sides to die. It lead
>to their downfall.


Support that.




> Everyone should realize that their actions
>today effect the rest of time. Stop thinking about the present and
>yourself all the time. Sure, keep that in proportion, but be a little
>nobler. There is a branch of mathematics called complex dynamical
>systems. Most of you know it by those beautiful pictures of fractals
>with all the colors. Chaos theory tells us that a butterfly flying
>in China will make the weather different in America.


You know, I am familar with fractals and chaos, and I hadn't heard of the 
butterfly affecting weather in China. If you are talking about the 
significance of initial conditions, that is one thing. Chaos does *not*
tell us anything about what causes what.

> One person/fetus
>can make the world a different place.
>

You use fetus and person as if they were synonyms.


>Funny thing is.....I'm going to piss off people on both sides.
>Chances are they won't listen.

Not at all. I'm listening. You have good points. I would like to see you
support some of them. This is a forum.


> That makes me think that this
>problem will never go away. Hell, poverty has been here thousands
>of years, and we still haven't licked it. So I don't have much faith in
>us. 
>
>If you think about it, life is just a bunch of fucking statistics.
>
>
>Mathieu Lewis
>
>for abortion with restrictions UNTIL we learn not to abuse it
>    and we stop all these unwanted pregnancies
>for gun control UNTIL we stop all these murders and senseless
>   acts of violence
>against all morons who protest in the heat of the moment
>

You seem to assume you are immune to being a moron yourself. Even you , like
I, are subject to being a moron in the heat of the moment. 

-- 

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Corrected .sig for those who did not see the absurdity of the original one.
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