HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyeh@descartes.waterloo.edu (Woody)
Subject: Re: to proud citizens
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:15:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.3716.3716@Eng.Sun.COM> peter@Eng.Sun.COM (Peter Liu) writes:
>A few proud ROC citizens still don't understand what I mean.

A SINGLE ONE PETE still don't understand what I mean.
	
>So let me make an example:
>
>want to escape from NAZI (the captain refuse to fight for NAZI),
                     ^^^^                                  ^^^^
>daughter and become a NAZI boy later
                       ^^^^
>and reports the captain's  escape to NAZI.
                                      ^^^^
>Why? Because the boy was fooled by NAZI.
                                    ^^^^
>He paid his foolish unconditioned loyalty to NAZI.
                                              ^^^^
>
>Need a mirror?

	Need a dictionary?

	You said you were giving us an example. Where is it? NAZI is a party
not a country. R.O.C. is our country. What's wrong of being proud of our 
country?

>
>A country is worth of loving only if 
>the country is established on the basis of justice and love.
>When a government consistently cheats its people, prevails unjust, 
>and commits crimes by promoting the belief of nationalism (or blind loyalty),
>the country/nation under its ruling becomes a machine, a tool
>for that crime committing government.
>The KMT government intentionally did evil things in the past,
>and is still intentionally doing evil things now.
>Since there is no sign showing that KMT want to stop blinding people in Taiwan,
>I don't think there is a good chance for KMT to become less evil in the future.
>To render loyalty to this kind of country is blind and meaningless.

	If what you said were true, it is the government's fault. It has 
nothing to do with country. In your logic, I can say "Because KMT sucks, so
it is meaningless to love your father, mother, sisters, brothers, and wife
(or wives ;)).

	Don't fooling around, man! 
>
>There's nothing wrong to be proud of 
>the culture we have, the people(race) we are.
>But when talking about being proud of a country/nation/government/party, 

	You do need a dictionary! Man! Here comes Webster:

country
2a: the land of a person's birth, residence, or citizenship
        ^^^^
2b: a political state or nation or its territory
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^^^

	Now tell me: Will you hate your home if shit in your home smells
bad?

	
>Need a mirror, proud citizens?

	Get a dictionary. Study before you speak! Especially speak in public!

-- 
*^^^^^^^^^^^ Ruo4 Shue3 San1 Qian1, Zhi3 Qyu3 Yi4 Piao2 Ying3.^^^^^^^^^^*
|   (Althought Ruo4 river is very long, what I drink is only one cup.)  |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
*___________Ye4, Zhong1 Yi4 (Woody)_____Another Kaohsiung Dude._________*
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Why did Huang Shun Xin defect to China?
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:14:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

>>
>>>From:  James Ou, <jamesou@zygote.hsc.usc.edu>
>>>Source: soc.culture.china, April 4, 1992, abridged by CND
>>>
>>>Taiwanese delegate Huang2 Shun4 Xing1, the brother of the ex-chairman of
>>>the Taiwanese DPP party, Huang2 Xin4 Jie4, walked out the congress angrily.
>>This is new to me.  Huang Shun Xing is Huang Xin Jie's brother?  
>>Would somebody post a verification on that?
>>
>  Huang Shun Xing is NOT Huang Xin Jie's brother. His brother named
>  Huang Xiao Yin is a medical doctor who currently resides in Mainland.

Hung Xin Jie has two brothers in Beijing, Xiao-yin and Xun Sing.
Xun Sin used to be a representative of LiFaYuan.
From: chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: "Epidemic" (Re: Most Ridiculous ?...)
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:15:40 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Yeun) writes:

------- 1 -------------------------------------------------------------
>We don't want to credit or discredit any one.   All we have done and 
>want to do is to unveil the facts. 

Isn't it a "fact" that Taiwan _now_ is one of the most prosperous
countries in the world? Isn't it a "fact" all these happen when KMT
(oops) is the ruling party of ROC? 

Why you keep de-emphasizing the efforts made by all the Chinese/Taiwanese 
in the past 50 years and keep emphasizing the meager contributions Japanese 
made 50 years ago?

------- 2 -------------------------------------------------------------
>We are not stupid.   Taiwanese were prevented from accessing the facts.
>Without the support from these facts, no one can make a correct judgement.

What "correct judgement" we need to make? We should know that KMT is
the worst party in the world? so what? If you don't like it, don't vote
fot it. After the election, KMT may gone but ROC still stands. 

Besides, how do we know what you "unveiled" are indeed "facts"? :-)

------- 3 -------------------------------------------------------------
>Romanized Taiwanese is part of Taiwanese culture.  

Sigh... if you insist...
When a pastor says you shouldn't worship idols like Guan1 Ying1, Mar1
Zu3, and you shouldn't even Gi4 Zu3 (worship your ancestors), you
comply, and this becomes part of Taiwanese Culture... O man...

------- 4 -------------------------------------------------------------
>Just like any Chinese
>song written in western music notation, using the staffs, is part of Chinese 
>culture, dispite that there is traditional Chinese music notation.   A
>language, just like music, is much more than a written form.  I hope you 
>can understand this.

Then please tell us what is so special about Taiwanese Culture?
It seems that the Taiwanese Culture can include just about everything.

-Chunshi
From: mvc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Getting a Work Visa in Taiwan?
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:31:13 GMT
Reply-To: mvc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ()
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: mvc@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu

Hi!
	I am a college student with a Japanese citizenship and U.S. permanent
residency and I might be spending this summer in Taiwan.  Could someone please
tell me how hard/easy it is for someone like me to get a temporary work visa
in Taiwan?

	Thank you in advance.
From: barry@falcon.axion.bt.co.uk (Barry Au_Yeung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: LOOKING FOR AMY LIU(OR LAU)...
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:50:12 GMT
Reply-To: barry@falcon.axion.bt.co.uk (Barry Au_Yeung)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


Hi, everyone!!! My name is Barry Au-Yeung and I am
looking for my friend Amy Liu(or Lau in Cantonese).

She is a Taiwanese girl. She has been in England two years
ago, and now she is studying psychology (???) at 
some college in either Washington DC or Washington 
state (I am not pretty sure!!!).

If anybody know her, please, please tell her that I would 
like to contact her.

Or, if anybody know her address, please send it to me by
email.

Thanks everyone and hope you guys have a nice time in 
Easter.

Bye for now.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens)
Subject: State vs. Nation (Was Re: advice to Mr. Joe Wang)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 02:17:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <ku1m2cINNd89@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Yeun) writes:
>>In article <ksvjm4INNel3@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao 
>Yeun) writes:
>>>There are several indian nations inside the U.S.   Do you want to tell
>>>us that there are many "Guo" inside Mei-Guo ?
>>>Guo means state !
 
Ah... You guys are just getting into one of my pet topics....:-) 
What is State and what is Nation?  (A very confusing question
from a US perspective...  because by the most classical 
definition of the word Nation-  I believe, that is the one 
Mitch is referring to, example: the 19th century European
Nation-State, it is by no means clear that the 
American people constitute a Nation.  Then go to the 
other extreme, and you see the weather forecaster  
improperly but with impunity - talk the the weather 
today over this nation...) 
 
So, I checked my sources, and I am told,by a 
person who is familiar with the issues involved, that the 
proper translation for "Country" is Guo, while for 
"Nation", it is something like "Mi2Zu2" (???). 
 
Does that ring a bell?
 
(And BTW, there is a very similar argument going on 
right now in soc.culture.canada...  for obvious reasons) 
 
 
Luc B. 
 
 
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear))
Subject: Taiwan, Republic of China (Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C")
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 07:12:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.194251.17530@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.085550.12950@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:
><
><	OK, kid, let uncle Paul teach you this again. Now follow me and
><	repeat; "The only legal government of Taiwan is Republic of China"
>
>You're living in the past.  The only legal government of Taiwan is the
>People's Republic of China.  The only legal government of Sichuan is the
>People's Republic of China.  The only legal government of Heilongjiang is the
>People's Republic of China.

	You naughty kid, if you still don't obey the rule, your uncle Paul
	will have to ask your Li-peng dad to use tank to smash your head.
	Now follow me and repeat; "The government of Taiwan is Republic
	of China" 100 times.
>
><	Look who's this morom calling to, don't you know who I am, kid?
>
>Do you really want an answer to that question?
>
>					--Scott

	Says who that you can talk to your senior like this?
	Don't you know what is manner? Don't you have domestic
	discipline? Sigh!

>
>-- 
>Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
>horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
>203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
>ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!

Paul
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hsieh@cel.SRI.COM (Mark Hsieh)
Subject: farewell to Comrade Chou1 at BBS
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 21:17:05 GMT

Hi, Comrade Chou1:

    120 min. before taking off. 

    If some SOPs talk behind my back, shoot them. :-)

Hsieh

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cyeh@descartes.waterloo.edu (Woody)
Subject: Re: to proud citizens
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:19:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.23991.23991@Eng.Sun.COM> peter@Eng.Sun.COM (Peter Liu) writes:
>
>I saw a few people are fooled by KMT's nationalism, which makes them so proud
>of being ROC's citizen. Let's look at NAZI German's history for a comparison.
>
>NAZI took its power by a perfectly legal election 
>which is much more clean and fair than Taiwan's last year's election.
>
>Only one year in power, NATI put 2.7 million unemployed people back to work.
>The unstable German society after WWI was brought back to order.
>German's national productivity increased in a surprising rate.
>A few years later, NAZI German won the most medals (33 golds) in Olymipic Game.
>Within 10 years, NAZI German had the strongest army in Europe.
>
>MOST German people were so proud of NAZI German then 
>and showed their support in ballots.
>Time proves them wrong.
>And German people (as well as other people) paid a extremely high price 
>to learn a lesson.
>
>My conclusion:
><1> People's pride in their own people and loyalty to their country 
                                                             ^^^^^^^
>can be easily and cheaply  transformed (by politicians) into
>tools/weapons for politicians.
>
><2> As long as a country is NOT of the people, NOT by the people, 
                  ^^^^^^^
>NOT for the people, it's meaningless to render loyalty.
>In addition,  it's extremely dangerous to render loyalty/obedience to 
>a dishonest government like the current KMT government in Taiwan,
>which tries every possible way to mislead its people.
>
>Peter

	Is NAZI a party or government or a country?


-- 
         Ruo4 Shue3 San1 Qian1, Zhi3 Qyu3 Yi4 Piao2 Ying3.
(Althought Ruo4 river is very long, what I drink is only one cup.)

        Ye4, Zhong1 Yi4 (Woody)     Another Kaohsiung Dude.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (TAIWAN!!! 5/18/92 )
Subject: Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:48:09 GMT

This might tie in a little with Luc's article...

I am not a pro KMT nor pro TI....just to clarify that.
This is mainly quoted from the December 1991 issue of Sinorama, I sorta 
summarized a little part of it.  The topic of it is "What is Taiwanese?"
I might put the whole article on SCT later...don't have much time now...

This one part said that many Taiwanese students went abroad called themselves
"Taiwanese" because of their hatred in KMT's acts.  Now, there are even more
Taiwanese students studying abroad calling themselves "Taiwanese" but with
different meanings.  When they tell the foreigners that they are Taiwanese,
they will be proudly waiting for their foreign friends' praises on the great
economic achievements.  And he went on to say that being separated from the
mainland for 40+ years, Taiwan has formed a sub-Chinese culture of its own.
With the opening of the visitation (right word?) policy between the Strait and
the major increase of informations of China, the Taiwanese and the mainlanders
have gained much more understandings on each other.  On one hand, we
(Taiwanese) realized the similarity in language and race.  On the other hand,
we realized that our society and theirs are two completely different worlds.
The Tien Nan Man incident and the pressures (political & military) from the
leaders of CCP have increased the Taiwanese feeling that "everybody is on the
same boat..."  Therefore, the origin of ancestors on the back of the IDs are
very insignificant and does not fit into our socity of "the common Taiwan
experience"...no matter one's pro-unification or pro-independence.  The new
generation of Taiwanese are not raised in the fear of mind control, and the
new generation of mainlanders are not raised constantly thinking about their
"hometown" in China...they're just a new generation who are happy and are
proud to be "TAIWANESE."

Paraphrased and interpreted from the article by Ming-Ke Wang
from Lien-Ho Bao (United Daily)
------------------------
I apologize if some parts of the interpretation did not make sense.  It is 
very late but I just felt that I should post this...Well, everyone is welcome
to comment on this.  But, remember that I didn't write it!  So if you have
something to say, don't direct it toward me.  Thank you!  Maybe I will give
a better version of it later.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve C. Chen			             Email: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |	
| University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign  	***************************** |
| College of Engineering		        *  Dude raised in Kaohsiung * |
| Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering	***************************** |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: infiniti@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Chung-Yih Lee)
Subject: Re: Control?! (The Six-Year...)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 04:29:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.003815.13954@watserv1.waterloo.edu> ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:

>	Interesting! Are you from Taiwan? If you are from Taiwan, then
>	I dunno why you doubt about the first point. Policemen in Taiwan
>	might not be the best in the world, but I think they are definitely
>	above average. (Better than U.S. police, I would say) Second, I
>	didn't say I am happy to see anyone beaten by anyone else, but if
>	that "poor guy" insult my country, I won't beat him (or her) up, 
>	but I won't try to rescue him if he got beaten by some one else. 
>	I don't believe that you feel good if someone insult your parents
>	or families in front of you, so what does this imply?

First of all, I quote:
>>> But if anyone in the same place say "I hate R.O.C.", ha, you might be
>>> beaten by people to death unless policemen come and rescue you.

Enough said about how you are NOT happy to see someone beaten by your fellow
"patriots." Yes, I am from Taiwan. Yes, I have personally seen cops beat my
friends up during student demonstrations. No, my friends' names are not Li
Peng. No, the newspapers and TV news said nothing about the cops beating up
people. Dunno about the "above average" part, either... at least US cops are
in big trouble now but Taiwanese cops are still seen as "the protectors of the
people." 
	In addition, I don't quite think cops have a right to decide not to
rescue somebody being assaulted. Of course I'm not asking YOU to rescue the
guy... if you're nice enough you can stay away from attacking him, that's all
I can ask from an ordinary citizen. But there's got to be someone to rescue the
*poor guy* being beat up by a lot of people. (You seem to suggest that since 
this guy says something against your opinion, he deserves to be beaten to a 
pulp by righteous citizens.) That means the cops; and they're getting PAID to 
do it, not to join the effort to beat us up. No matter what they think about 
the guy and what he says.

>	Last of all, the question you asked shows that you have no
>	idea what friendship is. You certainly don't have to please
>	your friends by memorizing their nationalities. And normally
>	chatting with your friends, you wouldn't keep on mention your
>	nationality as well, unless you are someone like that Scott kid.
>	Well, if you are someone like the Scott kid, then I think you can
>	only have friends like Li-peng then...;^)

	Don't even feel like arguing with you on this. You just know so much
more in life than I do. And soo much more about friendship, too, that you can
judge me by my political belief.

							Richard Lee
Hong2 Lou2 Tsai2 Zi3 Gai4 Tien1 Hsia4.
Go Card! There's no place like here.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:7273 soc.culture.china:12609
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Gin Jong fans' chellenge!! (was Re: The Six-Year National ...)
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:01:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.125027.13109@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>
>	Just a few weeks ago, I made a comment about Gin Jong's novel;
>	particularly, I find it annoying to read many roles put into
>	his novel that are greatly 'irrelevant'.

When I saw that article, I though Yung-Kao was talking about characters 
like "Taur Guu Lieu Shian" who talked a lot or "Yu Chyau Geng Dwu" who 
guarded "Yee Deng Da Shy" and harassed Guo and Huang when Huang needed 
to see Yee Deng, so I said I disagreed, I felt they were Jin Yong's 
unique creation, and I liked them a lot.

Now he says:

>	                                         After seeing S. Horne's
>	performances, I have changed my mind a bit: there is indeed people
>	like Gin Jong had described in his novel :-( They may be annoying
>	and irrelevent but they exist!!!
>
>       Lines deleted
>
>Yung-Kao Hsu
>

I am embarassed.  If Sccott is what Yung-Kao meant by irrelevent, we 
can't be talking about the same type of personnality.  I misinterpreted 
Yung-Kao's article and I am eager to see whom he will equate Scott to.

Eric
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear))
Subject: Re: Control?! (The Six-Year...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:19:27 GMT

In article <Apr.13.22.38.46.1992.15290@math.rutgers.edu> lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.201101.20340@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:
>> 	I remember that I post a news this Feb.. I read a interview
>> 	report of DPP chairman, Mr. Hsu Hsin-liang from a magazine 
>> 	"China Times Weekly" this Feb. Mr. Hsu said that the reason
>> 	why DPP lost the election at the end of last year is because
>> 	that the "ROT" idea they brought out is not accepted by most
>> 	of the people in Taiwan. He agree with former DPP chairman 
>> 	Mr. Huang Hsin-Jeah that the ROT is not going to be any
>> 	highlight in next election, it already pass away in political
>> 	struggle in Taiwan. Mr. Hsu also mentioned that present state
>> 	is the best for Taiwan, DPP has no intention to change anything.
>
>
>
>    Leaving aside questions on the correctness, how does the above
>show that most people in Taiwan proudly regard themselves as citizen
>of R.O.C.? Please elaborate. 
>
>
>
>lehhun

	Easy, people used ballots to show that they rather stay in 
	ROC in stead of being ROT's citizens.

	Paul

PS: you might doubt about the correctness of the translation I made
above, if so, please read "China Times Weekly Feb. 16th to Feb. 22nd",
American Edition, page 36 to 38, title "DPP is in favor of maintaining
Taiwan's present state", sub-title "interview of DPP chairman - Hsu,
Hsin-liang".
From: lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Control?! (The Six-Year...)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:48:15 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Apr12.084512.2920@vax.muskingum.edu>, ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu writes:
> In article <Apr.12.05.35.14.1992.9683@math.rutgers.edu>, lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
> > In article <1992Apr11.223753.29387@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:


> >> 	with their finger. Most of the people in Taiwan proudly
> >                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> 	regard themselves as citizens of R.O.C.. It's ok if you
> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> >     Could you cite a few facts to support this claim? Thank you.

> 	** There are tons of facts described in the Central Daily.


   The Central Daily, KMT's official newspaper, is not exactly
my idea of where to look for facts. Still, please do cite a few
of those "tons of facts" showing that *most* of the people in
Taiwan proudly regard themselves as citizen of R.O.C..


lehhun
From: pcli@uicadf.csl.uiuc.edu (Ping-Chung Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: HSNU needs you!
Date: 15 Apr 1992 20:58:32 GMT
Organization: Coordinated Science Lab., University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicadf.csl.uiuc.edu

>In article <1992Apr15.190940.24630@news.larc.nasa.gov> chang@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov (Chau-Lyan Chang) writes:
>        To the best of my knowledge, this is not true (at least around
>        1973-1976). Jian-Zhon got students only from entrance exam (of
>        course, there were some Chiau2-Shen1).
>
	FYI, I personally knew several bao3-song4 students. One of them 
	entered Jian4-Zhon1 in 1977, two entered in 1980. I was in Jian4
	Zhon1 in 1979-1982. 
	Them got bao3-song4 for the same reason, them represented their
	junior-high and got City Champion on basketball or volleyball.
	Usually those kids good at sports did not choose Jian4-Zhon1,
	however, these three wanted to get in college so they chosed our
	school.
	There did exist such students and such rules (chi4-du4), but as I
	said, there were few of them and could not be the major part of
	our extracurricular activity.

Ping
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:7419 soc.culture.china:12948