HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca (Reg Foulkes)
Subject: Re: Muscle by S. Fussell
Followup-To: misc.fitness
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:27:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.175428.20372@henson.cc.wwu.edu>,
n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) wrote:

> At 25, he started building, from 6'4", 170 lbs.   It shows him at various
> times, becoming huge.  At the height of his folly, and full of roids
> according to his book, he was 250 lbs at age 30.
> 
> After giving up lifting and the drugs, he dropped down to 200 lbs over
> 4 months and stayed there.  When I read that I was thinking that if
> hypertrophied muscles will go away so quickly, what's the point of 
> spending all the time and effort to maintain them?
> 
> Jim Del Vecchio

  Jim, if you don't do drugs you will find that loss of muscle 
atrophy will be minimal. Due to injuries I have stop for periods of 
6 months to 1 year with very little size lost. 

***********************************
riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca (Reg Foulkes)

No passion on earth, no love or hate
Is equal to the passion 
to change someone else's code
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Subject: Re: Stretching for shoulder muscle
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:19:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.152052.26633@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> stuart@lorelei.ece.drexel.edu (Peter Toich) writes:
>What's up folks,
>
>	About a year ago I was doing regular flys when my arm/shoulder gave out.  I
>ending up dropping the weight b/c of the pain.  It went away however in a day
>or two.  From that day on though the muscle in the top part of my shoulder
>starts to hurt when doing benching and/or incline benching.  I was wondering if
>there is any excercise and stretching that I can do for that muscle.  A few
>friends who also lift, complain of pain in the same area so maybe this is a
>common occurence.  I won't give an email address since other people may be able
>to benefit from the information.
>

I had the same problem about a year ago, caused by grapping a rebound will
playing basketball. At the time I was working 2 days on 1 day off. By changing 
my routine to every other day , 4 times a week the problem went away. I laid
off inclines and dips for a month so this might have also helped. But in my 
case rest was the only thing that helped.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
From: cutrell@nic.cerf.net (Doug Cutrell)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Chromium Polynicotinate or Picolinate
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:48:51 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

I am fairly hypoglycemic, and I have used chromium to help control
my blood sugar for several years now, off and on.  Originally there
was only "GTF chromium", which seemed to have some marginal long
term beneficial effects.  When I started using chromium picolinate,
there was a noticeable improvement.  I recently tried chromium
polynicotinate, and it did seem qualitatively different than the
picolinate... namely it hit "harder and faster".  The effects 
come on more suddenly and wear off... as evidenced by increased
glucose tolerance immediately thereafter, but wearing within a
few hours.  The polynicotinate also seemed to have a slight
stimulant effect.  I don't know if either product would be
beneficial to someone without hypo- or hyper- glycemia, but as
a weight lifting supplement it would seem to me that the
polynicotinate would be more useful, if taken just before
workout.

Doug Cutrell
From: loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: RETIBOL
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:06:42 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <1992Aug24.191332.4107@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>> Just a note:  Cyclofinil (not cyclofenil) and Clenbuterol Plus (not
>>> clenbuterol) are products manufactured by Strength Systems.  These products
>>> are not the real thing you think they might be.
> 
> Right.  Cyclofenil is an anti-estrogen somewhat similar to Clomid
> (clomiphene) and Novladex (tamoxifen).  It increases the release
> of gonadotropins.  Clenbuterol is a beta-adrenergic agonist usually
> used as an anti-asthmatic.  Neither drug is sold in the US: neither
> is FDA approved, and, anyway, these would Rx-only drugs if they
> were approved.  It's illegal to sell them in the US.

Steve, are you sure?  I was under the impression that it was not FDA approved,
but still legal to sell it.  The owner of the nutrition shop I go to told me 
the FDA raided his store about a month ago and took all the Clenbuterol he had.
He told me the product isn't exactly black market, but more like gray market
"material."  Dym. 25 is not (or is it?) FDA approved but it is still sold on the
shelf.  At least the FDA did not confiscate that when they raided the shop.  I
would think that if Dym 25 (ephedrine HCl) is found in OTC meds., then it must
be FDA approved.  Is there anyone out there that can more clearly define FDA
approval?

-Rob

> 
> In article <1992Aug24.183644.6916@nntp.uoregon.edu> mtp@oregon.uoregon.edu (Matthias Pohl) writes:
>>..hmmmm...what are they then ?...what does the label say ?...if Clen-
>>buterol Plus isnt Clenbuterol, sounds almost fraudulent to me.
> 
> No!  Who would DO such a thing?  :-)
> 
> You're getting the right idea...
> 
> -- 
> Steve Dyer
> dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bn112@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Katopis)
Subject: the BAKING of pita bread: this is a cooking question
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 04:03:52 GMT


sorry, i could not find an active food newsgroup

how does the "pocket" in a pita bread form, rather than the
whole dough cooking itself into a solid bread disc?

just wondering
chris
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: kbarss@scott.skidmore.edu (Kelly Barss)
Subject: Re: Jaws wired shut...
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:29:30 GMT

kennyl@Sun.COM (Kenny Lopez - Silicon Valley EDA District Sales Rep) writes:
> A of mine will have TMJ surgery and will have her
> jaw wired shut for eight weeks. I am hoping to
> gather opinions/recommendations on health/protein
> type drinks for her to drink during this period.
> 
> She is not much on exercising and hopes to lose
> between 15-20lbs during this period. Since these
> drinks will be her only source of nutrition,
> a balanced drink low in fat was recommended by
> her doctor although he did not recommend one
> himself.
> 
> Your suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Kenny 
> 
> 
Kenny, if it were me, I'd drink the food source Met-Rx (I am anyway!).  It's very high in the best protein in the world.  Check out all the postings on this one - it's wonderful stuff (and very low in fat, if any at all!).  Good luck to your friend!

Kelly.
From: WFP101@psuvm.psu.edu (BILL PHILLIPS)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: DEFEND
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:36:25 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


  Any one ever had any experience with the product called DEFEND which is
supposed to allow one to pass a urinalysis if they are using anabolic steroids?
Does this stuff really work?

==============================================================================
===================================================== Bill (WFP101 @ PSUVM) ==
 "You spot them on the streets of the city      """  (Penn State University) "
  and, increasingly, in the malls and parks     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  of the suburbs.  Sometimes they band          """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
  together.  Mostly, they walk alone.  Body-    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  builders.  You know the kind.  They strut     """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
  like no others, holding their elbows wider    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  than their shoulders, legs far apart.  I      """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
  know, I am one of them."
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: psburns@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (MAUREEN BURNS)
Subject: Re: step Reebok
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  3 Sep 1992 12:04 EST  

In article <1992Sep2.214217.12337@news2.cis.umn.edu>, rodeen@buddha.ncc.umn.edu (Rick Odeen) writes...
>In article <92246.142941U58855@uicvm.uic.edu> <U58855@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> 
>So what are people's favorite STEP steps?  Anyone care to share them?
> 
I like to bring my knee up to waist high, and thrust my arm straight out.  
Kind of like bow and arrow...

Maureen
From: loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: RETIBOL
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:59:50 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <1992Aug24.183644.6916@nntp.uoregon.edu>, mtp@oregon.uoregon.edu (Matthias Pohl) writes:
> In article <15106@umd5.umd.edu>, silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver) writes:
> 
>> 
>> Just a note:  Cyclofinil (not cyclofenil) and Clenbuterol Plus (not
>> clenbuterol) are products manufactured by Strength Systems.  These products
>> are not the real thing you think they might be.
>> 
>> 							-Adam
> 
> ..hmmmm...what are they then ?...what does the label say ?...if Clen-
> buterol Plus isnt Clenbuterol, sounds almost fraudulent to me.
> 
> /Matthias

That's a very brilliant deduction.  It is fraudulent, just like all of Strength
System's products.  I strongly warn anyone to stay away from Strength Systems
products.  They sell nothing but trash, and currently have a couple law suits
on their hands from people who have found out the hard way.  Do the supplement
industry a favor and don't support a company that lies to the public.  That goes
for Weider Industries and his stupid Principles.

-Rob
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Subject: Martin Katahn's theory (was Re: What's the deal with those... )
Reply-To: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 19:45:54 GMT


In a previous article, mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) says:

>In a previous article, vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco) writes:
>>
>>	Also, since they are less rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream
>>from the intestines, your glucose level doesn't go up as rapidly.  If
>>your glucose level rises too much, your body will start converting the
>>excess to fat.  Hence, complex carbs are less fattening than simple
>>carbs.
>
>I doubt this is true.  If your glucose level rises too much, your body
>produces insulin.  In most people, it is just as likely that the insulin
>can cause the muscles to store the excess as glycogen. 
>
>According to studies reported by Martin Katahn in the T-Factor Diet book, 
>participants had to be overfed by thousands of carbohydrate calories before
>the body started converting them to fat.  His theory is that the body
>rarely converts excess carbos to fat--and that any that aren't needed
>are burned off either by raising the metabolism or are stored as glycogen.
>
>Now the subjects were fit adults.  It is possible that there are people
>who react to raised glucose levels poorly (the so-called insulin-resistant
>a la Drs. Atkins, Hellers, and Ezrin) and would do well to avoid eating
>foods that would raise blood glucose too quickly.  But these are generally 
>people who have been fighting obesity all their lives, not people who
>want to lose 10 lbs.

	Hmmm... interesting.  This would seem to jibe well with the
oft-quoted advice that we generally need not count carbohydrate calories,
and that it is usually sufficient to cut down on fat.

	However, I am naturally skeptical.  Can anyone provide further
info?  I would like to know (a) if the subjects were fed those thousands
of carb calories IN ONE SITTING, (b) how Dr. Katahn determined when fat
production began, (c) if they were fed simple or complex carbs, (d) if
anyone has come up refuting his findings, and (e) if anyone else
supports his findings.

	At the moment, I am making no judgments about his theory.
However, I do urge caution.
-- 
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr., grad student & roboticist-in-training, CWRU

"If God does not judge the United States, then He owes |    My boss is a 
 an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah."   - Billy Graham   |  Jewish carpenter.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Fitness thoughts
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:59:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.211219.11301@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>: Geez, you mean you haven't heard that people burn more fat exercising at
>: a lower intensity?
>
>I would agree that a person will derive a higher percentage of their
>energy from fat at lower intensities, but I am not convinced that one
>will use less total fat at higher intensities.

Geez...you cannot win.  I have, in the past, pointed out that you can
in fact burn more fat calories exercising at a higher intensity if
you hold the time constant (more or less).  Over distance, (say if
you run vs. walk a mile), the average person burns more fat at a 
low intensity.
 
>
>: You are *not* burning fat if your muscle cells cannot get any oxygen.
>
>This notion that the muscles are not getting any oxygen at or beyond AT
>is ludicrous.  

I'm just going to say that I agree with pretty much everything that
Harry has to say for the rest of the post.  In my attempt to generalize,
I stepped on my own toes again.

I simply meant to say that people who were primarily interested in
"burning fat" are probably better off at doing more exercise at a
lower intensity (say a three mile walk) than collapsing after a
20 minute high intensity workout. 

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: cecchinr@hornsby.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini)
Subject: Re: Reference Books
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:26:26 GMT

>plus lots of great photos of the exercises (and Bob! ;-)

... don't get too excited there, Janice.  Maybe if your name was Jack,
or Jim or Jerry...

Ron

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Where to get Racewalking Shoes?
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:28:06 GMT



Can anyone help me find racewalking shoes, preferably a mail order outfit?

                                      thanxs
                                        kris

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Muscle by S. Fussell
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:07:14 GMT
	<1992Sep3.090513.339@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

On 3 Sep 92 14:05:13 GMT, loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu said:

Rob> In article <1992Sep2.193718.13729@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ss8f@csissun5.ee.Virginia.EDU writes:

> 	Where can I get that book? At a regular bookstore? Who's the
> 	publisher? Any info. will be appreciated.

Rob> The book has been out for a couple of years in hardvcover, but has 
Rob> just recently come out in paper back.  You should be able to find
Rob> it in your local bookstore. The publisher is Avon books division
Rob> of the Hearst Corporation.  The hardcover sells for about $18.00 
Rob> and the soft cover $10.00.

Waldenbooks may have it in stock.  I called my local one last night
after reading about it here and they had a softbound copy on the
shelf.

I'm about half through with it and it's a very good book.  The photos
are amazing.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: din@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Clarence Din)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: MUSCLE by Samuel Fussell
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep1.122236.333@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>If anyone is interested, there is a good book that just came out in paperback
>called Muscle by Samuel Fussell.  
>It is about a guy that goes from on Oxford University graduate to a steroid
>using competitive bodybuilder/powerlifter.  He describes how his mentality and
>his entire self changed due to the use of steroids and bodybuilding.
>I would highly recommend it.
>
>-Rob

I second this opinion.  I enjoyed reading it.  It's very light reading
which one could finish in a couple of days.  Very funny at times.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarence K. Din
Programmer/Analyst II, Language Analysis Center, University of Pennsylvania
din@gradient.cis.upenn.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kennyl@Sun.COM (Kenny Lopez - Silicon Valley EDA District Sales Rep)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Jaws wired shut...
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:33:32 GMT
Reply-To: kennyl@Sun.COM (Kenny Lopez - Silicon Valley EDA District Sales Rep)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bonehead1.west.sun.com

A of mine will have TMJ surgery and will have her
jaw wired shut for eight weeks. I am hoping to
gather opinions/recommendations on health/protein
type drinks for her to drink during this period.

She is not much on exercising and hopes to lose
between 15-20lbs during this period. Since these
drinks will be her only source of nutrition,
a balanced drink low in fat was recommended by
her doctor although he did not recommend one
himself.

Your suggestions will be appreciated.

TIA,

Kenny
From: tzf@csl.biosci.arizona.edu (Theron Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Fitness thoughts
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:55:11 GMT
Reply-To: tzf@csl.biosci.arizona.edu
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson

Seems to me that your (Beth's) quotes still leave the issue unclear. In
particular, Katahn effectively contradicts Bailey. viz:

From T-Factor (p. 208):
"Start-stop activities [anaerobic - ed.] are carbohydrate-burning
	activities.  In general, they will burn between 60 and 70 percent
	carbohydrate and 30-40 percent fat in the fuel mixture.

From Fit or Fat (p. 55-57):
	...Unlike glucose burning, ... all the enzymes used in fat
	breakdown need a lot of oxygen.  Anaerobic exercise, therefore,
	effectively shuts off all fat burning and forces the muscles to
	use glucose exclusively."

... so which is it, "effectively shuts off" or "30%-40%" fat burning?

Saying "anaerobic" can mislead our thinking a bit: it isn't that we're doing
without oxygen - usually we're still breathing pretty hard - but that we can't
get in enough oxygen to carry ALL the reactions to completion; some of them
may still be going to completion. Several models are possible here:

1) the cells have a mechanism for switching off fat-burning (enzymes) as
the carbohydrate pathways are activated,

2) all the enzymes remain active at the same time and compete equally
for resources

3) all enzymes remain active and compete, but the carbohydrate pathways
are more efficient or have some other advantage, effectively cutting out
some or all of the fat conversion

4) fat burning remains at a constant level, and carbohydrate burning (
aerobic and anaerobic) is just an overdrive.

... the 4th looks unlikely, but is not entirely ruled out by the figures given.
(e.g. if aerobic exercise A is running on 60% fat burning and "anerobic"
exercise B is running on 30% fat conversion but is also using energy at
twice the rate of A, then A and B are both burning fat for energy at the
same rate. B is just deriving all the _additional_ energy needed from
carbohydrate metabolism.)

So is there data to tell us what's really happening? Ed....?

	terry friedman
From: dr6@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Hack Squats
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:43:30 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <1992Aug17.112915.2119@brandonu.ca>, rodgers@brandonu.ca writes:
> 
> Question about hack squats -- is it best to go down all the way for each
> rep, or is best to stop when your legs are bent at a 90 degree angle?  When
> I do them the latter way, I feel like I'm cheating at the movement, but
> I seem to feel it more in the hamstrings whereas the full movement works
> the quads more.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> Val R.
> rodgers@brandonu.ca

Hey, Val, 

it's funny you should ask about hack squats!  I have September's issue of
_Muscle and Fitness_ in front of me, and what is the feature article of the
Kinesiology Dept., but hack squats! :)

It says here that :
"For maximum safety, lower your body only to the position where your back
remains in its normal slightly arched position....To assist in maintaining an
erect trunk during execution of the hack squat, you should hold your breath
during the down and up phases."   Of course, they go further into this, but if
everyone wanted to read the whole thing, they would've bought the magazine,
too! :)

Oh, by the way, the picture shows Shelley Beattie using a hack squat machine.
Some people may do hack squats with just a barbell, so...

good luck!


Oh, for everyone else out there:
After years and years of doing regular squats, I've recently started doing
lunges.  Be prepaired to cut back on the poundages here (in comparison to
squats), but what a great way for some variety to leg training!


					Dave Roman
					DR6@Jaguar.UofS.edu  -internet
					DR6@Scranton         -bitnet
						
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: rpark@stam.QE.Bell.CA (Richard Park)
Subject: Re: cardiovascular improvement vs. fat-burning training
Reply-To: rpark@stam.bell.ca
Organization: CER, Bell Canada
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:27:46 GMT

In article <180hoqINNgbi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall) writes:
|> 
|> What kind of training emphasizes an increase in cardiovascular
|> strength without as much fat burning as a typical aerobic workout?
|> 

Swimming. Because the water (being cold) makes you perspire less while you get
an aerobic workout..
-- 
Richard Park
From: terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Chromium Picolinate: How does it work?
Keywords: Chromium Picolinate
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:53 GMT
Organization: The Lafayette Group, St. Louis, MO.

Can anyone explain why Chromium Picolinate is supposed to work?
That is, the claims are that it accelerates fat loss while maintaining
lean body mass. A problem with most calorie reduction plans, of course,
is that muscle is metabolized along with body fat.

So, what is going on inside the body that make Chromium Picolinate
work? (If indeed it does work)

Thanks
-- 
  Terry Linhardt                ...!wupost!jgaltstl!terry 
                                terry%jgaltstl.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: roberts@phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov (Don Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: I WAS ON ABC W/ADAM FOR TWO MIN
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:32:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux) writes:

>my, what a lofty signature, don.   not bad for someone who is also rumored
>to play BINGO!
>
>ZING!
>
>poo

Hey, don't knock it. Bingo has been shown to be a NATURAL ANABOLIC ACTIVATOR!!
Recent studies show that people who sit around playing Bingo all day can gain
as much as 50 POUNDS!!!

Remember: Bingo = Bodybuilder's Instinctive Natural Growth Optimizer !!!!

[for the humour-impaired: ;-) ;-) ;-)]
[lofty signature follows...]
--
 Dr. Donald W. Roberts
   University of California                                      Physicist
   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory         Recreational Bodybuilder
   dwr@llnl.gov                                           Renaissance Dude