Newsgroups: rec.scuba

joseph@smosjc.UUCP (Joseph Crunk) writes:
> 
> 2) Federal and state laws regulate mail order firms. Most of the
> efforts in this direction are with the intent of protecting the
> comsumer. ANYTHING you purchase mail order can be returned within
> 10 days for a FULL REFUND. That's the law! For full details on this
> see your local Postmaster.
> 
> As soon as your order arrives you should check it for fit/comfort and
> color...etc. If Something isn't right call the mail order firm, get a
> persons name, tell them you are returning the merchandise attn: them.
> 
> 3) Using a credit card (MC VISA AE DISC) gives you even more consumer
> protection, via laws regulating the banks/lending institutions. This
> should very from state-to-state. Here in CA the credit card company
> is resposible for the integrity of the merchandise. This is also true
> for in-store purchases. If anything is not right the lender must fix
> it or refund the amount that was charged to the credit card.

Excellent information. Thanks, Joe.

> 4) Right now, retail SCUBA stores are averaging 85-100% mark-up on
> the stuff they sale. Regutators allow for an incredible profit-margin
> while BC's don't have as high a mark-up. As a rule of thumb, sports
> equipment and musical instruments have very have mark-ups.
> 
> 5) Concerning instrumentation: you have to either be getting it from
> a store at 'keyman' prices or be a fool to not buy all your instruments
> from mail order (unless you're hung up on Scubapro...etc). Any failure
> here needs to go back to the manufacture, altho most mail order firms
> will also replace from stock on hand. Always call ahead first.

Some pretty strong language here.  I have purchased all of my gear
through dive shops, including my instruments, and I don't think I am a
fool.  Do you?

I have been able to swing some pretty good deals over the years.  Now,
as an instructor, I do of course get good prices from shops simply on
that basis, but I didn't need to be an instructor in the past to
haggle.  I think you are grossly oversimplifying the reality of the
market here.

> 7) Due to Federal inter-state commerce laws, many states don't collect
> sales tax on mail order transactions. On large puchases the taxes can
> add up quick making mail order even more attractive.

True enough.  One of the deals I have been able to make quite
frequently is to get the shop to sell to me at a reduced price that
covers the taxes.

> 9) There's no reason your local dive store can't match mail order prices.

Now here I have to strongly disagree.  There are ALOT of reasons, many
of them quite legitimate.  Some of them have been enumerated here, and
I'm sure more will be posted as this discussion continues.

> (see #4 above). Your local dive store probably hasn't (and won't) do any-
> thing to support your intertest in diving that you haven't paid for. To
> do so would be 'bad business' for the store.

And rightly so.  It's not 'bad business', it is simply bad business.
What right do you, or any other diver have to expect services from a
dive store for free?  We're talking about a business here, not a
charity organization.

> Likewise, your shouldn't
> feel compelled to give away your money to that store when you otherwise
> wouldn't have to.

"Otherwise wouldn't have to"?  I'm not exactly sure what that means.
Hey, we're talking about a free market here.  No one is forcing anyone
to buy anything from any particular dealer/supplier.  However, by the
same token, dive shops *do* provide some essential services to divers,
and without patronage, they will cease to exist.

> 10) There are several large corperations that exist for the purpose of
> supporting your local dive shop's desire to have you spend your money
> there (ex: PADI, SSI ...etc) 

True enough.  What do you suppose the "desire" of the company you work
for is?  Is it somehow immoral or unethical to enjoy diving, and want
to make a living at it?

> Your local dive store exists for only one
> reason, to make money. Shop and purchase wisely.

This is patently false, and smacks of one who has little to no close
contact with dive store owners and operators.  As a person who does, I
can state quite confidently that few if any dive stores are gold mines
for their owners.  In our own local area here the stores that serve us
are owned by people who, after all expenses are accounted for, end up
with a net income substantially less than what I and many of my
collegues make as engineers.

I am intimately familiar with this because one of my instructor
friends was seriously considering purchasing a dive store that was up
for sale.  After going over the books and talking to other store
owners in the area he decided not to, because he couldn't even come
close to netting what he makes as a public school teacher.

The point I'm trying to make here is that dive store owners are not only
in it for the money. Indeed, people who are looking to make money don't
buy dive stores. Money, and profit, are quite a ways down on the list of
reasons why someone typically goes into the dive store business; in my
experience, it is much more tied to a love of diving, and wanting to
make a living in the industry that they love. You paint an unfair
picture of the dive store owner/operator with your comments, Joe.

> *** The bottom line is this: Mail order works, it saves you money, and
> you needn't feel guilty about purchasing equipment this way. There are
> laws (you should be familiar with the laws) that will protect both you
> and your purchase during mail order and after.

Yes it does work, and you can save some money.  However, it is not
without tangible cost, as has been demonstrated in the articles posted
in this thread.  Some people are more willing to part with some time
and frustration than cash, while others prefer to part with their
dollars, and be relieved of the potential difficulties that mail order
has associated with it.

I'm of the latter frame of mind...  I'd rather spend 10-15% more money
and not have to hassle with mailing stuff back and forth, with the
shipping costs, concomitant delays, and minimal customer service you
get from a mail order house.  In my years of diving I have had
situations, on occasion, where the prompt, face to face service I get
from a dive store was critical due to an impending trip, and mail
order would not have been able to take care of me.

Just one example among many are the 4 Delphis I went through two years
ago.  Due to the high rate of failure of this unit, I had to take it
back 3 times before I got one that was reliable.  Of course, the shop
exchanged it on the spot for a new one, no questions asked.  In my
view, the money, headache, and time involved in having to do this with
a mail order company would have far exceeded the value of a 25%
savings, if I had had been able to get such a savings from a mail
order place, which is unlikely.

BOTTOM LINE:  You get what you pay for.  Pay less, and you get less.
For some, this is no problem, because they place little value on the
services and convenience that a dive store offers, and there is
nothing wrong with this.  For others like myself, these services are
of considerable value, worth more than the cash saved by the discount,
and therefore I view myself as getting a BETTER deal from the dive
store, price differences counted into the comparison.

Dave Waller
YMCA Instructor