From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation
Keywords: A Course In Miracles
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:20:16 GMT
Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs



Hello John Ata. You're absolutely right! You say:

	>Prexistence of the soul and reincarnation are two separate issues.
	>The former deals with existence of the soul as spirit before birth
	>while the latter deals with the same spirit living multiple human
	>lives serially.  Rejecting the latter does not necessarily mean
	>rejecting the former. 

Yes. You are right. I cannot prove that they were actually voting against 
reincarnation, nor can I, with my limited knowledge, prove or argue 
convincingly that reincarnation was a generally held belief before this 
Council.

		>>I remember that Jesus said, insisted in fact, that John the Baptist 
		>>was the reincarnation of Isiah. (Matthew 11, 15 confirms this, but 
		>>I believe there is a better quote somewhere.) Also, it is recounted 
		>>that Jesus healed a man who had been blind from birth. (John 9, 1) 
		>>The disciples asked if the man had sinned (to deserve this 		
		>>punishment) or his parents. How can a man sin before he is born, 	
		>>unless he has had a life before?
You say:

	>Just so you know, this interpretation is commonly retold by
	>believers of New Age style religions who believe in reincarnation
	>(I first heard that party line back in 1974). 

Does that mean that it's wrong, then?  What is *your* answer?

	>I can only advise
	>you to go and read the passages in context (a commentary might be
	>helpful), and then ask yourself if the likely explanation of these
	>events was really reincarnation.

I have spent over seven years in a "Hauskreis", a kind of bible-group. We 
have read Matthew and John, and a few other books. We have two trained people 
from the church who explain (sometimes interpret) things for us. They told me 
that God had made an exception here, and had indeed reincarnated Isiah (in a 
kind of one-off -"einmalig") for His own special reasons.

We also dealt with the man who was blind from birth. They couldn't answer my 
question of "*why* the apostles imagined that the man could sin before he was 
born. They said the disciples probably didn't mean it like that. The reason 
that the man was there anyway was just to help Jesus get his message across. 
It didn't interest me so much why the man was there, just why the apostles 
should ask such a stupid question if reincarnation doesn't exist.

		>>(My quote deleted for brevity's sake)

	>This is more of a New Age interpretation of Jesus which conveniently 	
	>remembers the loving aspect of God but ignores His justice.  Just for an 
	>example:

			"Woe to you..hypocrites!..shedding the blood of the 			
			prophets..murdered the prophets..sin of your forefathers!         
			You snakes! You brood of vipers .. condemned to hell..

Wow, it sure sounds like a fun belief you got there. Somebody really wanted 
to put strong words into Jesus's mouth. Pity they just don't go along with 
his main message of love and forgiveness. Anybody else who comes along and 
says something like "Listen, you've got it all wrong, God loves you *all*, 
and forgives you!", he'd sure better be careful, or he might get crucified 
right away, before people start to believe him.

Again, to come back to "Justice". In A Course In Miracles, Jesus says:

	"What can it be but arrogance to think your little errors cannot be 	
	undone by Heaven's justice? And what could this mean except that they are 
	sins and not mistakes, forever uncorrectable, and to be met with 		
	vengeance, not with justice? Are you willing to be released from all 	
	effects of sin? You cannot answer this until you see all that the answer 
	must entail. For if you answer "yes" it means you will forego all values 
	of this world in favour of the peace of Heaven.  Not one sin would you 	
	retain." (Text, Page 501 - "The Justice of Heaven")

I'm really sorry - my ego got the better of me once again. If you want to be 
too nasty for the net, you can Email me. I'm not attacking you personally, 
John, it's just those "God of wrath" ideas I don't agree with. I don't think 
they came from you, anyway. They've been around for thousands of years.

I also should add, as I did in my letter to Tom, that my ego is pushing me 
here to go *against* the teachings of ACIM, which says:

Manual For Teachers, p.57. Chapter "Is Reincarnation so?"
	(A "Teacher" is also a student. I see it as me (Paul) here.)

	"Our course is not concerned with any concept that is not acceptable to 
	anyone, regardless of his formal beliefs. His ego will be enough for him 
	to cope with, and it is not the part of wisdom to add sectarian 		
	controversies to his burdens."


				Love in Christ,     Paul.

Hey, and don't worry. If you're right, you'll have the last laugh anyway, 
because I'll probably go to hell, and you can thumb your nose at me from 
Heaven. 




Paul Milsom
milsom@ntb.ch
Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland
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