From: amigo@milton.u.washington.edu (The Friend)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:14:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.joe.715241690
Organization: University of Washington

pal158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:

>ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>>	Most Amiga users are totally ignorant of IBM's OS2 2.0.

>>						G.Greene

>>>	 
>>>Fred Heitkamp,  ** Only my own opinions **

>  So what?!? Most IBM users are ignorant about Amiga's OS, about it's
>hardware and all else, and... SO WHAT?!?!?  What a stupid commentary!!
>It doesn't say ANYTHING!!! Like: "The sun comes out during the day."

>SO WHAT!?!?!?

	well what can I add here? I may as well waste some bandwidth to
throw in the towel about a few things of IBM vs. Amiga.. first off my
standpoint is from the PC side  - I'm ex-Amiga owner turned PC because
things are _really_ finally picking up on the PC where it is more like
an Amiga-sort of machine (minus the crappy original OS - MessyDOS). Windows
3.1 has improved considerably, the 32 bit version will be supperb... I do
miss the Amiga's multi-screen capability, something easy to add to any desktop
interface, but no one's doing it because they're set on the _desktop_ aspect
- keep things messy I guess. Other products for the PC in terms of windowing
OS's are great as well - Desqview, OS/2, and there's a X-windows sort of
interface with Unix built in that is excellent for communications - host-PC
or just general use as well.
	I should speak about hardware - the Amiga is getting thrashed now,
I suspect in a year there won't be much to say about the Amiga in terms of
video. There's plenty of 16-bit sound cards comming out, a few are out now,
and are cheap >$200. All these smash the Amiga, and the Ultrasound card
(16 bit, 16 voice/channel stereo) will sink anything at its price ($200).
the only exception being some very higher-end machines with DSP. Video
is getting way over the Amiga - 16 million colors at 640x480, 32K colors
at 800x600 (all with built-in windows acelleration for >$200)... the future
 promises a 1280x1024 card that does 256 colors at that res, 1024x768 with 16
 million colors - at a "reasonable price". 
	So we've covered the additional hardware end of things - and
we're comparing it to the average Amiga.  Yes you have to spend extra $
to get things on a PC - but thats been accepted as fact since PCs are
bought as "boxes" sort-of that you add to get anything extra with. Compare
an average Amiga's video/sound capability, and you still have to buy add-ons
there to get up any level of proformance beyond basic specs... everything
I've seen (minus the Toaster & a few clone-ish items) for displaying 16 mil.
colors on a Amiga has been a typical hack that requires programs that shift
the display a certain way to get it to work right - in other words a limited
few. On PCs the add-on cards just get a driver to work & have the VESA standard
built-in so they work with everything while the new extra modes get supported
very rapidly by a wide range of programs.

	Demos - demos on a PC? yes.. more Amiga-ites have bought PCs
in Europe and are creating demos very close to what the Amiga can do, some
even are better. Once the PC gets its video bus standard (local bus),
demos should be somewhat better then an Amiga - given that the video
can run as fast as the CPU then (where it craws at 8 Mhz now). 

	Ok.. so I've said a lot of bad things about the Amiga - or at least
hyped PCs a bit much. I do still like the Amiga.. its a very classy machine
in its own right - I wish it was more popular - like seeing it used more
often.. but it isn't. There comes a time when you realize that things aren't
getting better - I made the switch, and I'm sure many will follow. The
Amiga is _old technology_ - course the PC is too, if you want a true state
of the art machine, I guess the Quadra is the best overall example...sheer
horsepower with a 68040, video is incredible, a _true_ Amiga basher (should
be say flat?). I'm not much of a Mac fan, but once in awhile Apple does 
something impressive - beyond the NeXT even, and I thought the NeXT was
impressive when it came out (except for B/W screens).

	My point is the Amiga is only crawling now, whereas other computers
for your desktop are being seriously developed for. When less is being done
for your machine, what do you do? 
 	A> fight for your right to get development
	   (and loose out overall, since complaints don't get you anyhwere) 
	B> be satisfied - live with it (I guess a lot of C64 people do this
	   as well - I see the Amiga getting nearer to the C64's fate).
	C> buy the latest tech (basically join the rest of the crowd since
	   there must be some reason its a good thing to buy).

	I admit I'm not overall thrilled with my '486, but game development
on PCs is just astoundingly great, and the games are just as good as anything
I've seen on an Amiga (at least this year's crop of them anyhow). Anything
else is real easy to find.. whereas on an Amiga, you were sometimes not
so lucky- there's still a lot of gaps to be filled as far as available software
on Amigas. I'm also proud I can say I have a PC at home and not explain
what an Amiga is, what it does, etc.. always feeling like a second-class 
computer user.
	Yup - none of this is reasonable to the .advocacy folks.. Amigas
are supremely the best. At one time it was true, but that was 4-5 years ago..
todays technology is much further along, though doesn't include
the same hardware design as the Amiga. In brief, even the A3000 hasn't
come much further then a CPU upgrade since the Amiga's introduction in '85...
the ball got rolling fairly well by '88-'89, but by last year its nearly
stalled again. Only a super-upgrade could turn it all around, but I wonder
if Commodore can invest to do it.


						Don't mail me - just
						continue it on .advocacy..

						Joe Anon
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy