From: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 22 Aug 92 17:43:13 GMT
Reply-To: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <1992Aug20.213204.9612@uoft02.utoledo.edu> steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (jason "Think!" steiner) writes:
>prove it. you've made a lot of statements that you haven't backed
>up. i'm not using sarcasm. would you at least do me the favor of
>substantiating your claims?

Instead of replying to all of your individual questions, I'll just put forth
some Scriptural bases against the amorality of music.

In my first post regarding this a couple of months ago, I was diligent to
include lots of Scripture (which, might I say, of all the arguments I got
against my point, was never debated).  I won't go over that post again, but
I will bring out some more points:

Perhaps I should begin by stating what music should be.  According to Scripture
 the Lord should be our music - "The Lord is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation.." (Ex. 15:2)  The Lord is to be our music, not a group of
unbelieving, unrepentant sinners singing to their own gods.

As for the precedent for using music as praise, the Scriptures are replete:
Ps 33:1-5,68:25,92:1-5,144:9,Neh. 12:36 and IIChron 23:13 to name but a few.
My favorite, of course, is Ps 150 "Praise God in His sanctuary, Praise Him
in His mighty expanse...Praise Him with trumpet sound,Praise Him with harp
and Lyre, Praise Him with timbrel and dancing, Praise him with stringed 
instruments adn pipe.  Praise Him with loud cymbals, Praise Him with
resounding cymbals.  Let everything that has breath praise the Lord"

However, regarding music that does not praise the Lord, the Scriptures are
strangely silent.  The only significant passage is after Moses has been gone
and the people make a golden idol and sing and dance to it.  This is summarily
condemned.

It seems to me, then, that if Scripture talks about what is important to us,
if it mentions music that is in praise of God (and I stopped counting the
references after about 40), then it seems to me that even if our sole purpose
through music is this, then it should at least occupy a large majority of
our time with music.

Regarding the amorality of music more specifically, though.  Let's take a look
at a couple more Scriptures Found in II Chronicles.  In 7:6, the chronicler
refers to "music _of_ the Lord" and in 30:21 he speaks of "instruments _of_
the Lord".  Now it seems to me logical (how's that, ME being logical :))
that if there is music and musical instruments OF the Lord, then there is 
also music and musical instruments that are NOT "of the Lord".

This should alert the believer to arguments of supposedly "neutral" music.
There is music meant for God, and meant for selfishness.  For instance, in
I Chron 16:42, we are told that there were those with instruments for the
"songs of God" (denoting ownership by God).

As a counter-example to the above, let's take Eccl 2:8-12.  In this passage,
Solomon laments his downfall.  And what should he list as a contributer but
music! "Also, I collected for myself silver and gold, and the treasure of
Kings and provinces, I provided for myself male and female singers and the 
pleasures of men - many concubines...and all that my eyes desired I did not 
refuse them, I did not withhold my heart from my pleasure...thus I 
considered all my activities which my hands had done and the labor which I
had exerted, and behold all was vanity and striving after wind"  It seems
significant that in the list of those things he considered as providential
for his "earthly pleasure", music was included.  This seems to be a basis
for an argument that music can be used solely for selfish, earthly pleasure,
and not for praise of God.  And what is the result of such a lifestyle -
vanity and emptiness.  Later, Solomon notes "For who can eat and who can
_have enjoyment without God?" (2:25).

It is clear, then, that music is NOT amoral.  When David was composing his
Psalms of praise, they had one purpose - to glorify God.  This is a clear
point in favor of the fact that the intent of the author IS vitally 
important.  David made Psalm 150 so clear, that one could not get any 
interpretation from it other than the author loved and wanted to praise
God.

So, we can choose music that praises and Glorifies our God, or we can 
listen to music that praises and glorifies the world's petty gods - "
money, sex, self-pleasure,selfishness, humanism, 'independance'", among
others.

I often think God probably laughs at what we humans call "reality".  The
next time you insist on logic in an argument, Jason, remember that you're
talking about _your_ human logic, not God's (which is often directly in
contradiction to our own).  Remember the proverb that says the ways of a
man lead to death.  Our "logic" is fatally flawed by our sin - we do not
have God's mind, thus the importance on relying on His word, Word and 
Spirit.   One of the most eye-opening pieces on this came from CS Lewis
in "The Screwtape Letters".  If we knew what was really out there and
what true reality is all about, we would all probably go crawl into a 
corner and hide - at least that was Adam and Eve's first reaction.

Hope this has been complete, and I hope that I have backed up my claims with
the only source worth the paper it's written on - Scripture, not human 
reasoning.

D
D
D
D
D
Ps 33:1-5,92:1-5,144:9, >
>jason "this is not real!" steiner
>
>--
>would you could you should you cross thru if i could wipe my eyes a blinding
>compromise another pinky shave enlightens the brow now cow to die another day
>if you prefer outside be blessed sir ostracize better bastard now forgotten
>well instead of favored son of hell in hopes to open eyes - scaterd few, U
>`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`


--
Noel Estabrook          |       Let us not merely do that which is our
noel@crs.cl.msu.edu   __|__	RIGHT, rather, let us desire to do that
Educational Technology  |	which IS right - Me
Michigan State Univ.    |				Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian