HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:30:25 SET
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Johan Berteloot <JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE>
Subject:      Re: CapsLock gone awry

On Mon, 5 Oct 92 10:22:02 CDT Tom Dolan said:
>When working in WordPerfect 5.1 for Dos the CapsLock key will suddenly work
>opposite of that expected - the light goes off but uppercase letters are
>typed AND the keyboard stays in shifted mode - this means F7 gives the
>print menu instead of of exit.  If I hold the shift key and hit CapsLock
>the light will come on, the keyboard still types uppercase and F7 gives
>exit again.
>
>What am I typing to get the CapsLock light to be off with the keyboard
>remaining in shifted mode?   Is this a problem in WordPerfect?  has anyone
>else seen this problem?   This is happening to about 10 persons in our
>office.
>
>Tom Dolan           Dolan@Acuvax.acu.edu
>Systems Manager
>College of Biblical Studies
>Abilene Christian University

Hi,

This is a hardware failure. You type to quickly. Usually this happens when
you hit two keys at exactly the same time. The shifted situation of the
keyboard however can easily be solved by hitting the left and right shift
key twice simultanuously.

Hope this helps,
---- Johan

==============================================================================
Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
User support service          |     BITNET : JBERTELO@BANUFS11.BITNET
Central Computing Services    |  +--------------------------------------------
UFSIA, University of Antwerp  |  |  Areas of interest : Programming (Pascal,
Belgium                       |  |     C, Assembler), AI, Expertsystems,
------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
a new problem ---   Goethe.      +--------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:23:58 EST
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "D. Cook-Radmore,
              Head of ESA Translation Division" <DCOOKRAD@ESA.BITNET>
Subject:      Spell-checkers

    Henry Mullish's question about words that are
    wrong in the context but that the system happily
    accepts because they do exist for me highlights
    the lesson that I try to drive home to my people
    here -- that the spellchecker is not, and cannot
    be, the sole and sufficient answer to checking a
    document for mistakes.  Far too much faith is put
    into checkers:"I ran it through the spellcheck,
    so I sent it straight out".  A spellchecker is
    nothing more than a useful way of catching the
    worst typos, the ones where (like me some days)
    you seem to have 5 thumbs on each hand and create
    nonsense words, and - in these days when no-one
    knows or cares to teach kids how to spell - of
    catching the wild guesses at how a word should be
    spelt. BUT A TEXT *STILL* NEEDS PROOFREADING.

    The London "Times" recently had someone taking
    "umbridge" at a remark; the checker would have
    queried that.  But a few days later, the account
    of someone "briefing fire and brimstone" would
    have been let through.  Perhaps if we can't trust
    an august newspaper with a worldwide reputation
    to do any proofreading, I'm being over-fussy
    expecting a typist to check things?  The easy out
    is to just agree that correct spelling and syntax
    don't matter a damn.  Depressing, isn't it ?

    Derry Cook-Radmore, European Space Agency

End of Message
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:20:22 SET
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Johan Berteloot <JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE>
Subject:      Re: Transposed words that WP misses

On Thu, 1 Oct 92 09:39:00 EDT Charlie Reitsma said:
>>I was wondering just how many such words exist. If the number is
>>large, should a sophisticated Spell-checker flag such words for
>>further scrutiny?
>>
>>I'd appreciate any comments anyone might have on this matter. Does
>>anyone have any further examples?
>
>Consider what the spell checker could do.  I assume that WordPerfect is not
>going to go to great lengths for context and grammar checking.  It could stop
>on all words that are anagrams of another and show all the possibilities.
>This would slow spell checking down since it would be stopping on a lot more
>words but then they could make it an initial setting selectable in Setup.
>Those that need it would find it most useful.

Other options would be great in the same context : number/character checking
(Yes) No; unexpected capitals checking (Yes) No; automatic check on saving (Yes
) No; etc.
Just a suggestion. How about it ?

Bye,Johan

==============================================================================
Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
User support service          |     BITNET : JBERTELO@BANUFS11.BITNET
Central Computing Services    |  +--------------------------------------------
UFSIA, University of Antwerp  |  |  Areas of interest : Programming (Pascal,
Belgium                       |  |     C, Assembler), AI, Expertsystems,
------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
a new problem ---   Goethe.      +--------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Subject: Bluffing spelling checkers (humour/humor)
From: cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:50:42 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

All the recent talk about spell checkers reminded me that I'd kept a
posting to this list from a year or two back.  Quoted below - enjoy.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 Nick FitzGerald, PC Applications Consultant, CSC, Uni of Canterbury, N.Z.
 n.fitzgerald@csc.canterbury.ac.nz  (64)(3)  364-2337 Voice,  364-2332 FAX

P.S.  If you read this carefully I think you'll find it is now
fifth-hand!

***********************  enclose quoted message  ***********************

Subject: Re: Special transpositions using the Speller
From: Terry Wolff - Pomona College <TWOLFF@POMONA.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 91 08:49:00 PST

<...stuff deleted...>

>Can anyone come up with any references to where I can consult further,
>or failing that, can you dream up any candidates that will fool the
>Speller.

>Henry Mullish, New York University

I found the following in an IBM magazine a few months ago in an
article about spell checkers.  I have retained it for demonstrating the
fallability of spell checkers.
==========================================================================
The following was taken from the VM/CMS MONITOR, Vol 4
Number 1. The author of the article pulled it from the May
19, 1986 issue of Information Week. It demonstrates the
pitfalls of spelling checkers.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

I thought ewe mite bee interested in a revue of a currant
hot software product witch is used fore finding spelling
errors in word processing text.

I halve bin using won four quite a wile and found it to bee
invaluable. I have bin truing two improve my spelling for
sum time now since my secretary always commented that it
isn't too grate.

Weather I like it or knot, I no I cud right bettor if I wood
practise moor, and width the spelling checker to help me it
will bee easier to find my mistakes.

Awl I can say is that a spelling checker is such a terrific
program that every business cud fair bettor if they wood use
won.

The spelling checker I'm using is such a good program it has
maid me interested in the vendors' grammar checker, witch I
will bee testing next. I will send ewe a revue of that
program two.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Subject: Re: Need for password protection (Was: Lost Password)
From: cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 21:10:51 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <Bv7w4s.J3E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
rowright@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ron Wright) writes:

> I am a therapist and I keep patient notes under encryption.
> I also keep my own personal journal encrypted: In order for me to feel free
>    writing there, I need to know it is for me only.

Reading this "list" as a newsgroup, it often seems we miss postings -
presumably not all messages get through the mail->news gateway safely. 
I haven't seen any postings on lost passwords recently, but to Ron and
others with info that needs to be kept confidential, whatever you do
don't use WP's "password protection" feature (at least, not as your
-only- cryptographic tool).

Look into a serious encryption scheme - not WP's built-in "toy" system
(it was broken in an afternoon by a couple of professional cryptanalysts
and since publishing the details of its deficiencies, many "crack WP
passwords" programs have been floating around BBS's and the Internet). 
Depending on how paranoid you are, you will also have to consider what
to do about properly "wiping" decrypted files once you've finished
viewing/editing/whatever.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 Nick FitzGerald, PC Applications Consultant, CSC, Uni of Canterbury, N.Z.
 n.fitzgerald@csc.canterbury.ac.nz  (64)(3)  364-2337 Voice,  364-2332 FAX
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"wp50-l@ubvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:39:15 -0400
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments:     Resent-From: MULLISH@NYUACF.BITNET
Comments:     Originally-From: <MULLISH@NYUACF>
From:         MULLISH@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Transposed words that WP misses

The following is intended for those WP users who are as fascinated
with the Spell-checker as I am. I am interested in those valid
English words which have the following property.  When any two
neighboring letters of the word are transposed, they yield another
valid English word. The result of this is that the Spell-checker
accepts the transposed words as correct for the simple reason that
they also appear in the dictionary.

Here are some examples of what I mean. I have indicated the
transposed letters with capital letters:

fROm UNclear thERe sLIver infRAction caUSal

I was wondering just how many such words exist. If the number is
large, should a sophisticated Spell-checker flag such words for
further scrutiny?

I'd appreciate any comments anyone might have on this matter. Does
anyone have any further examples?

Henry Mullish
New York University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:05:39 SET
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Johan Berteloot <JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE>
Subject:      Re: Transposed words that WP misses

On Thu, 1 Oct 92 10:53:56 GMT C R Pennell said:
>        Johan Berteloot <JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE> writes:
>: Hello Henry,
>:
>: You made a quite sharp remark, because this is something that might happen
>: in probably all languages (at least it does also in my native language,
>: which is Dutch). I'm sure this checking would be a very good improvement
>: for dislectic (sp ?) people (and also for those amongst us who have
>: dislectic fingers while typewriting).
>:
>: Could you forward your suggestion to the WP developers ? It's a tollfree
>: number in the US, but a very expensive operation from Belgium (about $5
>: per minute) and the Belgian office does not pass suggestions to Orem.
>
>	For Pete's sake why not? What's the point of having a local
>office if it doesn't pass back consumer opinions to its head office? ANd
>am I to assume from this that they don't monitor this group either? If
>so, is there a sensible explanation for this?
>
Hello, here's my answer back : indeed they don't monitor the group. I even
wonder wether they do know the BITNET/Internet services. From what I know
the support people are not very competent. Whaw, hell of a cry for real
support...
I teach WP classes here in Belgium and many people contact me instead of
WP Corp Belgium if they have a problem. I you send in a document with a
problem, you (a) will never see your document back; (b) won't have a
satisfying answer; (c) will sometimes get a commercial answer back : buy
the newest version (of course, but a full price ??). What's the update
policy anyway in the US ? I'm very lucky I'm sellsupporting, otherwise...
I would give up. Support works only good if you are to lazy to read the
manual, where the same function is explained. And that's really a pitty.
Never mind, WP is a good product and it never let me down.
Bye, Johan.

==============================================================================
Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
User support service          |     BITNET : JBERTELO@BANUFS11.BITNET
Central Computing Services    |  +--------------------------------------------
UFSIA, University of Antwerp  |  |  Areas of interest : Programming (Pascal,
Belgium                       |  |     C, Assembler), AI, Expertsystems,
------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
a new problem ---   Goethe.      +--------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET"
Original_cc:  UAHWBW01
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:29:00 CST
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         UAHWBW01@UAHVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Truncated WP version?

The four files for WordPerfect to go (as per Wordperfect, the Magazine) are:

        Standard.vrs
        wp.exe
        wp.fil
        wpsmall.drs

Bill Woodward
uahwbw01@asnuah.asn.net
From: GALLAGHR@USMCP6.BITNET (STEVE GALLAGHER)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Subject: WP 5.1 text => Word 5.0 Format???
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:29:30 GMT
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Orig-To: WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET
Comments:     Answering received message

After issuing the Tex Out command (I believe its CTRL-F5) select Save As
choice 3 and then select Generic choice 1.  This will save the soft page
returns..It might help????

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Gallagher                                        <gallaghr@usmcp6.bitnet>
   "native"        University of Southern Mississippi
 "californian"                 601-497-3636
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.2 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:41:44 EDT
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Michael Hollinger <MCHOLL@TSRV1.TS.WM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: "Invisible" lettering with DR1.1

>    When I work on a drawing which I have started at one computer and then
> carried to another I notice a very strange problem.  Sometimes (not always)
> when I retrieve on one computer a drawing started on the other computer the
> lettering in some or all of the text lines is invisible.  At first I thought
> those objects had (somehow) been deleted, but they haven't.  I can select them
> and edit them. (If I can remember where they are, that is.)
>

What I'm pretty sure is going on is that the objects have fallen
behind other objects on the screen. Two things to do:
1) Refresh the screen (V D-I love it...)
2) If it still appears behind (what will probably happen is that
you'll see it and something will then appear to print over it.)
 You can either delete the object on top, or use the two icons at the
bottom (the ones that look like two little boxes) to pull something
from behind up front or push something in front behind...
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X-VMS-To: IN%"WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:35:00 EDT
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Charlie Reitsma <REITSMAC@DENISON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CapsLock gone awry

>When working in WordPerfect 5.1 for Dos the CapsLock key will suddenly work
>opposite of that expected - the light goes off but uppercase letters are
>typed AND the keyboard stays in shifted mode - this means F7 gives the
>print menu instead of of exit.  If I hold the shift key and hit CapsLock
>the light will come on, the keyboard still types uppercase and F7 gives
>exit again.
>
>What am I typing to get the CapsLock light to be off with the keyboard
>remaining in shifted mode?   Is this a problem in WordPerfect?  has anyone
>else seen this problem?   This is happening to about 10 persons in our
>office.

Happens a lot on some 386's.  Appears that some flag gets set in memory that
confuses the system.  We usually clear it by pressing both shift keys, then
both ctrl keys, then both alt keys.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:48:42 EDT
Reply-To:     rj@jr.queens.edu
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was rj@JR.QUEENS.EDU
From:         The Head PC Geek <rj@QUEENS.EDU>
Subject:      RE: sorting in columns (was columns-->>tabs)

>From:	MX%"WPCORP-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu"  1-OCT-1992 00:48:27.81
>Subj:	sorting in columns (was columns-->>tabs)

On Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:02:00 IST, AVISHAI ANTONOVSKY
 <KPUAV%HUJIVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu> wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>Fact: Using WPDOS, I created a one-page document with three parallel columns,
>used for a phone list (column 1 for name, 2 for address, 3 for phone).
>
>Problem: The list I made was alphabetical, according to last name. Then I
>wanted the same list, this time in order of first name. So I copied the
>orignial list to a 2nd page and tried to perform "sort" with the second word
>as key 1. The problem is that when I blocked the text to be sorted, I could
>only block the 1st column, *then* the 2nd, *then* the 3rd. In other words,
>sorting this way would indeed give me first names alphabetically, but would
>not change the addresses and phone numbers, or, if I blocked columns 2 and 3,
>it would use the second word in the address as key 1 as well. What I did next
>was try and replace the columns with tabs so that WP would treat physical
>lines (on screen or printer) as logical lines, with no luck. I tried saving
>it as ascii text then retrieving it, but I got a three-page, one column list.
>
What method were you using to sort (besides block)? I have had some success
with parallel columns sorting them as paragraphs. The field then becomes the
column, and the lines are just the lines within that column. The times that I
have tried this I have also needed to make sure there was a [HRt] between the
column rows. Good Luck!

RJ
It's not what you got it's what you give.
It's not the life you choose, it's the life you live.--Tesla
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LIV.LIVBIRD;  6 OCT 92 13:41:00 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:30:16 BST
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Ms. Lucia Asturias - Getting fitter?" <LUCIA@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>
Subject:      wpmd

Hello everybody,
Does anyone know where to get hold of the WPMD - Wordperfect 5 file doctor
latest version?
The one we have is version 12 FEB 90.

Please reply to my address.  Thanks!

Ms. Lucia Asturias
Office Systems Section
Computing Services Dept.
The University of Liverpool
England, UK

Phone: (051) 794-3749

BITNET/EARN/NETNORTH: LUCIA@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
                      (LUCIA%UK.AC.LIVERPOOL@UKACRL)
INTERNET:             LUCIA@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
                      (LUCIA%LIVERPOOL.AC.UK@NSFNET-RELAY.AC.UK)
JANET:                LUCIA@UK.AC.LIVERPOOL
SPAN:                 RLESIS::CBS%UK.AC.LIVERPOOL::LUCIA
UUCP:                 ....!mcsun!ukc!liverpool.ac.uk!lucia
From: GE0515@SIUCVMB.BITNET (Terry D. Mathias (618) 453-7419)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Subject: Transpositions and Misspellings
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:18:31 GMT
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Yes, this is a fascinating and often frustrating problem.

Others:  NO    quiET    sLIt     poOL

I also have trouble with certain mistypings, other than transpositions,
which result in valid words passed over by spellcheckers:  e.g.
pool/poll, tool/toll, wise/wide, safe/sage, rare/rate.  Because of the
number of these -- caused simply (?) by poor typing technique -- it may
be impractical in a spellcheck capability to flag words with common
mistypings that are also valid words.

My favorite:  "typing" often comes out "typoing"  -- how appropriate!
(Of course, even though a spellchecker catches this, it is worth at
least a quiet chuckle when it happens.)
~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~
Terry Mathias, Office of University Relations       Phone: 618/453-7419
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale       BITNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB
Carbondale, Illinois  62901            INTERNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-POPmail-Charset: English
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:22:02 CDT
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "(Tom Dolan)" <dolan@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU>
Subject:      CapsLock gone awry

When working in WordPerfect 5.1 for Dos the CapsLock key will suddenly work
opposite of that expected - the light goes off but uppercase letters are
typed AND the keyboard stays in shifted mode - this means F7 gives the
print menu instead of of exit.  If I hold the shift key and hit CapsLock
the light will come on, the keyboard still types uppercase and F7 gives
exit again.

What am I typing to get the CapsLock light to be off with the keyboard
remaining in shifted mode?   Is this a problem in WordPerfect?  has anyone
else seen this problem?   This is happening to about 10 persons in our
office.

Tom Dolan           Dolan@Acuvax.acu.edu
Systems Manager
College of Biblical Studies
Abilene Christian University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:16:00 CST
              <WPCORP-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "GORDON G. JONES, UNIV. OF WISCONSIN-STOUT,
              (715)-232-2130" <JONES@UWSTOUT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Macro for Business Cards?

Check the February 1992 issue of the WordPerfect magazine for a routine to
create personalized business cards.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpcorp-l
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re:      Re: Transposed words that WP misses
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:53:56 GMT

        Johan Berteloot <JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE> writes:
: Hello Henry,
: 
: You made a quite sharp remark, because this is something that might happen
: in probably all languages (at least it does also in my native language,
: which is Dutch). I'm sure this checking would be a very good improvement
: for dislectic (sp ?) people (and also for those amongst us who have
: dislectic fingers while typewriting).
: 
: Could you forward your suggestion to the WP developers ? It's a tollfree
: number in the US, but a very expensive operation from Belgium (about $5
: per minute) and the Belgian office does not pass suggestions to Orem.

	For Pete's sake why not? What's the point of having a local
office if it doesn't pass back consumer opinions to its head office? ANd
am I to assume from this that they don't monitor this group either? If
so, is there a sensible explanation for this?

: Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
: ------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
: Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
: a new problem ---   Goethe.  
  """""""""""""""""""""""""""

   AHA! GOETHE HAS THE ANSWER, AS USUAL. I SHOULD HAVE READ THE SIG
FIRST.



    +--------------------------------------------