HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton Policies
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:31:08 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Oct7.054939.105@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>In article <21670@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>Then please explain why Britain didn't succeed in 1812 when they invaded
>>Washington?
>
>Because we had a government and a military, paid for by taxes.

It certainly wasn't paid for by the Income Tax!

[ followed by ... ]

>>>Are you admitting a mistake here?  I didn't know you were capable of doing
>>>that. :-)
[ ... ]
>>The point behind holding a discussion is introducing new ideas and
>>playing around with them.  
>
>>You probably weren't aware of this concept.
>
>Here is a clue why John Haugh is famous for getting into flame wars.  He
>tosses little bits of flame bait around and later claims he didn't start it.

Uh, if the shoe fits, wear it.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:04:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.165100.22453@watson.ibm.com>, johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
> He is most definitely a zealot Christian.  He has made no secret of
> his goal of putting prayer back into public schools.  He issues
> presidential proclamations every week or so thanking God for
> everything from American Independence to the fact that he wasn't
> constipated that morning.  He thinks that atheists shouldn't be
> considered American citizens.  He chastised the Democrats for not
> putting G-O-D in their party platform.  As a private citizen, he's
> entitled to his own religious views, but I resent his using his
> position to impose Christianity on the government and to
> officially discredit other points of view.  This is bigotry, plain and
> simple.
 
Oh, I don't agree.  Bush clearly isn't a zealot Christian.  In fact, it's
not clear that Bush feels strongly about ANYTHING, other than staying in
office.  On the other hand, he clearly panders to the religious right
wing, so that difference may not even matter, but I don't think he has any
deep seeded beliefs that are guiding him to do those things.
 
Bush understands that the Christian right is a powerful force in the Repub
part and he's willing to pander to them, just like Clinton is willing to
pander to labor and other Demo special interests.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Worker Productivity
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:53:28 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1524@airgun.wg.waii.com> reed@rd08.wg2.waii.com writes:
>I repeat, John, "Output per Hour".  And as far as it being only
>manufacturing production, the footnote says:
>
>	The data relate to all employed persons (wage & salary, 
>	the self-employed, and unpaid family workers) in the
>        U.S. and Canada, and all employees (wage & salary earners)
>	in the other countries.
>
>Now, I know what John's rebuttal will be next.  He will say,
>"See, it is an unfair comparison, we are including workers
>in our statistics that others are not."  Of course, those
>self-employed workers are notorious for the poor productivity
>lowering the average for everyone.  Oh, I think John is self-employed!
>It must be the unpaid family workers...

No, John is not self-employed.  But if the statistic for American
workers includes unpaid family workers, then so too should the
statistics for the other countries.

Look, if America is in a ditch, I'd like to know.  But the fact is
that we have lower unemployment than most of the countries in Europe,
and that IS counting all the unemployed (about 10.5% right now,
source: Sindlinger weekly survey).  We are still the number 1
exporter, we export more to Japan than Japan exports to us, per
capita, and so on.  Do we have problems?  Yes.

However, if you are going to use skewed numbers, I'm going to
complain.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: John & Fred
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:24:52 GMT

In article <gD09RB1w164w@n5abi.hou.tx.us> gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy) writes:
>
>  What! Fred and John agreeing, in essence, on something? Both 
>think that mirroring disagreeable behavior (here on the net) might 
>somehow change that behavior.
>
>  Actually, it should be no supprise that they agree on this. In 
>matters of substance they may never agree, but in *style* they are 
>all too often identical. 

Actually, they aren't quite identical.  There is one very large
difference, which someone else pointed out.  John will often chuck the
FIRST rock and then claim it was the other person's fault if they
respond in kind.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Quality of Public Education.  The NEA sucks.
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:12:47 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:

>>Of course if we just fired half the stupid administrators and kept the
>>teachers, we could hire still more teachers and give the current ones a
>>raise and still have money left over with no drop in the quality of
>>education.

> As the son of two public school teachers, I can tell you that one
> thing that is hurting  public education is the immense amount of
> paperwork they have to do as required by the  state. They say that
> there is very little time left to actually teach anything anymore.   It
> gets harder and harder every year just to do their jobs, what with all
> the paper they  have to wade through.     Big government hurts
> efficiency.

Here is what happens when people try to curb that red tape, (The NEA
blocks it):

*10  CHARTER SCHOOLS:  NEW JERSEY PLAN DRAWS MIXED REACTIONS
     N.J. Gov. Jim Florio (D) has proposed creating "charter
schools" that would be exempt from rules and regulations to which
other public schools must adhere (Gray, N.Y. TIMES).  "Basically,
charter schools are similar to conventional public schools in
that they are tuition-free and receive support from both the
state and the local school district, but they are allowed many
freedoms normally associated with private schools in designing
their own curriculums and in setting their own goals," writes the
newspaper.
     Florio said yesterday in a speech to the State Board of Ed,
"Charter schools can encourage innovation by loosening the
administrative straitjacket on teachers and allowing them to use
their professional judgment and take responsibility for the
results."
     But the N.J. Education Association, which represents most of
the state's public school teachers, "was dismayed" by the
proposal, writes the TIMES.  Spokeswoman Lynn Maher:  "We are
seriously concerned that the issue could promote racial and
economic divisiveness, and we question the appropriateness of
parents and teachers running public schools alone."
     The N.J. School Boards Association, however, tentatively has
supported the idea.  In addition, Florio said he heard
"favorable" reactions from educators, business leaders and some
members of the state Legislature (10/9).

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 -If you vote against Bush, be fair and throw out Congressional incumbents too-
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Subject: Re: BullShit
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: tx
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:15:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.135920.17147@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>John, given your politics (which, under your rules, you will lie about
>since you probably consider them none of anyone's business), I don't
>think you can identify a liberal.  Are we, then, all a 'liberal plot'
>and only read and write to this group to be 'tiresome' for you?

Yeah, that's it. It's the same liberal media that keeps bashing his
favorite candidates, badmouthing his religious schools, promoting
(nay, performing!) abortion, naysaying the Bible, promoting sex
education, and making fun of Dan Qualye.

Today the net. Tomorrow, the World!

-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I want to Krazy Glue my head to the bottom of a BIIIG           #
#      steel girder!" - Weird Al Yankovic                              #
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: BullShit
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:19:59 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX

In article <1992Oct12.140734.16084@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
 
|> Oh, just by the way, John.  Jeannie (remember Jeannie, the woman you
|> insisted that I must have made up and who you demanded a way to
|> contact -- except that now that I gave you one, you just don't seem to
|> quite have the stomach for it anymore?) looked around a bit and came
|> up with the following things, which seem to pretty well refute your
|> presentation of the foetus as a human, pain-feeling person.  This is
|> all from _Pregnancy and Birth_ by Tracy Hotchner (and she reports that
|> books such as _What To Expect When You're Expecting_ and _Guide To
|> Pregnancy and Birth_ are in substantial agreement.

I already checked _What To Expect When You're Expecting_, just because
we happen to have that book, and it is very vague on anything having
to do with fetal development.  It instead focuses on what happens to
the pregnant woman at various stages of pregnancy, which is, after all,
its stated objective.  

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
                "Fight the real enemy" -- Sinead O'Connor
From: popec@korova.uucp (Mr. Charlie)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Chinascam
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 21:16:19 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

susan@korova.uucp (Susan) writes:

> popec@korova.uucp (Mr. Charlie) writes:
> 
> > Chinascam - 
> >         Huh?
> > 
> > John F. Haugh II
> > 
> > Chinascam.
> > 
> > Some years back, a CIA analyst was tracking missles being shipped from 
> > China to Iran.  This was the tip of an Iceberg.  China was selling 
> > Missles, Nuclear Waeopn Technology nad Biochem Technology to Iran, a 
> > terrorist state involved with holding our hostages.  Among other unsavory 
> > things.  This analyst dutifuly kept his superiors informed, yet nothing 
> > was ever done about this.  The Bush, Reagan adminstration did not even 
> > seem to care.  Tired of beating his head against a stonewall, this 
> > analyst tipped off columnist Jack Anderson.  Anderson, ever the careful
> > journalist, approched some sources he had in intelligence and word got 
> > back to Washington.  Anderson git a visit from the CIA and was informed 
> > that even tho' it was true, he should not publish, as this would 
> > compromise intelligence gathering methods and personnel.  He reluctantly 
> > agreed under pressure.
>   
>    'Scuse me, is that meant as a crack about Anderson?  Hope so as he is 
> well known as one who does not check facts -- several articles have been 
> published on this for those of your who don't, as I do, know anyone on 
> his staff.  The guy is and has been cruising on reputation -- not that 
> this point refutes your post, but, it makes me wonder about who you 
> consider trustworthy.  If you quote Paul Harvey, I won't read any more of 
> your messages.
> 
> 
> --
>               VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
>         "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
>                 into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"


Well in this case he was careful enough to try to doublecheck this story.
And it brought him to the attention of the government.
And they confirmed the reports to him, as his column relates.  I don't 
think he's lying.  And his report did galvanize a bipartisna group of 
Senators to demand a Special Prosecuter to investigate and prosecute.
They seem to feel there were some laws broken here.
I have seen nothing to suggest in this particualr case that Anderson is 
wrong or lying.  And in this case, the call for a Special Prosecutor is 
not a democratic thing entirely. 

Paul Harvey!?? ICK!  Nor Rush Limbaugh, nor James Kilpatrick, nor Paul 
Craig Brown, nor Cal Thomas.  This list could run on some length.
If it had been just an Anderson column, that would be one thing, but that 
enough Senators looked into this and demanded action, that is quite 
another.  It is that action i am more interested in.

C.

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Teacher Pay Redux
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:00:23 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <exuptr.761.719097746@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.183636.16838@montagar.com> davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
>>                                   So hours worked, therefor wages, are
>>probably a little less.  Heck, the extra two weeks of Christmas vacation are
>>worth $3,971 in compensation.
>
>Which, of course, they still receive.

It also doesn't include the value of job security.  Not being worried
about losing your job is worth money since you don't have to sit out
for a few weeks before 1) finding that new job and 2) getting that
unemployment check in the mail.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: How about reaction to Perot's first TV show?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:14:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.142602.17905@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Not as a primary goal, certainly.  Not wrecking the economy, for
> example, probably ought to have a higher priority.  In fact, Perot
> himself recognizes that in the current state of the economy his
> proposals shouldn't be implemented.  Perot calls for a smaller cut in
> Defense and much larger tax increases than does Clinton (in particular
> the $0.50 gasoline tax, which I think is a bad idea -- even though I
> preferred Paul Tsongas to Clinton, and he proposed the same thing).
> Other than that, the primary differences between them seem to be
> minor, insofar as policy prescriptions go.
 
I know the contemporary wisdom is that now is not the time to reduce the
debt, but I'm not so sure I agree.  Michael (the man who never blinks)
Kinsley had an interesting essay in Time about the
fact that there is NEVER a good time for debt reduction, in the eyes of
those who have to do the reduction (i.e., Congress and the President).
 
Let's say the economy does take off.  What President, enjoying good
economic times, is going to put that at risk and start austerity measures
that are going to be painful?  The fact is that the public only cares
about the deficit when we're in trouble, once the economy starts moving,
no one is going to care about it.   It's all part of our culture that
focuses on short-term benefits and doesn't worry about long term problems
until they hit the crisis mode (at which point they're short term
problems).
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 23:53:51 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX

In article <21680@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
|> Most private schools are NOT associated with churches.  Most of them are
|> just PRIVATE schools.

Number of private schools grades K-12, 1987-88
[source: National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of
         Education]

Number of schools (total): 26,836
Catholic:                   9,527
Other religious:           12,132
Non-sectarian:              5,177 

|> Of the churches that DO have schools, many of the students have parents
|> who don't attend that church.  My Episcopal wife has never given a dime to
|> the Catholic school she attended.

Free tuition?

|> Certainly if
|> "collection plate opportunity" where the driving force, you'd think
|> "Christian" schools would at least restrict attendance to Christians ...

If nothing else, they have a captive audience for delivering their
message.  Conversion opportunies abound, if they get them young enough.

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
                "Fight the real enemy" -- Sinead O'Connor
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: How about reaction to Perot's first TV show?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.133650.15005@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Did anyone notice during the debate that Clinton and Perot really
> don't seem all that far apart (except for some details) when you start
> getting down to what they're actually talking about doing and why they
> think it needs to be done?
 
Oh I don't agree at all.  I think Perot and Clinton are years apart on
their platforms.  They do agree strongly that Bush needs to go, and Perot
seems to be willing to take it easy on Clinton in order to achieve this
goal.
 
Perot's primary goal is to reduce the national debt and to
cut federal spending drastically.  Clinton has no such inclination,
nor for that matter, does Bush.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:14:36 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <1992Oct09.152047.25890@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>
>Well there's really two different issues here.  I don't care what
>consenting people teach to each other, I just think that they should pay
>for it themselves.  The Texas constitution is quite clear about
>prohibiting sectarian schools from receiving any public education money.
>
>The other issue is teaching superstitious mumbo-jumbo to children before
>they've had a chance to develop their bullshit detectors.  I think it's
>immoral to lay that mind-trip on them.  You can teach your children
>whatever you want, but I think publicly-funded schools should be 
>restricted to teaching factual information.
>
John, Christianity is not a superstition. Jesus did walk the earth.
The question is: Do you believe that He is your savior? 

And I agree. I don't think private schools should receive government money. They're
private, after all. But, of course, you're saying that through tax exemptions they are.
First of all, let's exclude non-religious private schools from our discussion. I think 
we both agree that they should not receive public funds. Now, on to the religious ones.
I don't think that a school run by a church receives public funds just because the
church is tax-exempt. The school is not a business. No one profits monetarily from it.

This makes me wonder how fair it is to those parents of children who are in private
schools who still have to pay education tax.

Or to those who have no children.
--
Griff Miller - miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com - My opinions are mine, not Western's.
  "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom 
   and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:49:11 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <1992Oct07.235351.42551@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>
>If nothing else, they have a captive audience for delivering their
>message.  Conversion opportunies abound, if they get them young enough.
>
There's nothing wrong with that, although the kids are certainly no more "captive"
than they are in a secular school. No one is holding a gun to their heads or their
parents' heads. The parents know they are sending their kids to a Christian school.

Christians want to teach others about Jesus, and are happy to see others accept Him into
their lives. Yes. There is nothing wrong with that. If you have something or know something
that brings you joy, you want to share it with others, don't you? Well, it's the same thing.

Now, I know that there are those who, meaning well, try to ram Christianity down people's throats.
Not all Christians are like that. After all, they know that if someone accepts Him because 
he was badgered, cajoled, etc., it means nothing. So please don't think that just because
somebody tries to teach another about Jesus, it's wrong.

And if someone does use the throat-ramming technique, try not to let it affect the content of the 
message.
--
Griff Miller - miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com - My opinions are mine, not Western's.
  "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom 
   and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton