HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nmrdb@vms.macc.wisc.edu (BEVERLY SEAVEY)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 18 DEC 92 10:49:42    

In article <1992Dec17.232404.1252@nas.nasa.gov>, seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl) writes...

>In article <1992Dec15.233127.13718@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
>|> 
>|> Hello!
>|> 
>|> I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
>|> my moves (forms,katas, etc).
>|> 
>Can you say "videotape"?:L)
> 
> 
>Seib
> 
I'm a serious dancer and I can say "videotape" just fine, and I  do videotape
a lot, but there is a lot that you can't see on videotape. Subtle torso 
and shoulder moves, what labonotation calls energy level,... I don't
consider a dance properly recorded until I have written a lot of notes. And
until you force yourself to sit down and notate a dance you don't understand
it. Videotaping is like photocopying an article so you don't have to read it.
From: ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shihans, Senseis, Dan(s) & Stuff
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:07:34 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Pamela C. Eder (ederpc@rtsg.mot.com) wrote:
: Okay, another humble opinion on the net...
: 
: It is also my understanding that Shihan means "master" and it is granted
: to those who have attained 8th Dan and above.  (congrats to these folk)
: In the Chicagoland area, to my knowledge, there are only two Shihans:
: Shihan Larry Tankson and Shihan Joe Gangi.
: -- 
:    Pamela C. Eder                   Due to budget cuts, the light at the end
:    ederpc@void.rtsg.mot.com         of the tunnel has been turned off. Thank
:    Motorola, Inc.                   you for your cooperation. 


As someone else mentioned, a shihan in aikido is often "only" a
sixth dan. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, however, is that
being sixth dan doesn't mean that you are shihan; some organizations
(notably the Aikikai) reserve the right to award shihan separately
from sixth dan.

Fumio Toyoda Sensei, the head of the Aikido Assoc. of America,
is another Chicago-area shihan.

--
Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu)
Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory
Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC  27710   (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray)
Subject: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:03:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.235518.24589@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

> The CLUB is not a theft prevention device. It is a way to have a lethal
> weapon handy while pretending it serves some legitimate function. Just
> like those metal MAG-LITE flashlights.

The trial of four police officers who beat motorist Malice Green
to death with MAG-LITE-type flashlights is going on in Detroit right
now.  There has been some discussion of regulating such flashlights here.

-- 
/***************************************************************
* Brian T. Murray          |   LEARN something new every day   *
*                          |   DO some good with what you know *                              ****************************************************************/
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ki and science
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:31:08 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

In <1992Dec16.074954.2056@siemens.co.at> ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes:

>My remarks on qi investigation led to an interesting thread-cascade 
>anyway.
>What I read was a translated and modified excerpt from:
>The Four Major Mysteries of Mainland China" by Paul  Dong,
>Prentice Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, NJ 07632.

>The scientific approach in the University of Shanghai was not to find
>the Qimeter, but to test QigongMasters, when they said they were
>in a Qi-state. Measure of the infrared radian, make the aura of the
>hand visible on a picture and then compare it to an average person and
>thus maybe find a connection to present day science.

>Ernst Krudl, Vienna, Austria, Europe (ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at)

Wait a second.  If you say that they give off more Infrared radiation than
normal all you're saying is that they get hotter.  This isn't controversial
at all.  It's well documented that some yogis and other religious folk can
raise their over-all body temperature through meditation.  

But even less remarkable, if you take a infrared picture of somebody all
you're really saying is that they're relaxed.  The more you are relaxed the
more blood that flows to your skin, the closer your skin temperature is to
your core temperature.

-David Iverson

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ki and science
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:54:47 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Dec14.145521.22216@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>I think we'd be much better martial artists in a "primitive" society without
>any notion of science at all.  Indeed, I believe the Chinese have always been
>better martial artists without scientific interference.

 Two comments:

(1) This seems to presuppose that there was no Chinese science.  This is
simply false.  Furthermore, the intent of Chinese science has always been
fundamentally the same as Western science, viz., to comprehend the world,
things in the world, and the properties of the things in the world,
especially law-like relations between things in the world.

(2) Martial arts and science are inextricably linked.  It isn't far off to
say that martial arts are "really" martial sciences.  Learning/creating a
martial art involves hypothesis formation and testing, does it not?

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: The FAQ: a modest (but serious) proposal
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Dec 92 12:08:37 CST

In article <1992Dec11.043004.6821@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>I think Mary Malmros proposes an excellent approach to the task
>of developing a rec.m-a FAQ.  Clearly we need a FAQ.  And I think
>we are a readership with the technical depth, general literacy,
>and cooperative spirit required to do an outstanding job of it.
>So, let's get started.

I agree.

>
>I would suggest that the most important initial tasks include
>selecting an editor to provide some overall guidance to this
>project, and identifying the actual FAQs to be answered.
>Concerning the selection of a FAQ editor, I nominate Mary.  If
>she is willing to serve, I think she would do a great job.  

I agree.

Also, I would be willing to help.

I have a suggestion for gathering Frequently Asked Questions.
Once an editor is selected, why don't we mail (bombard) the
(poor) person with the questions we *recall* being asked most 
frequently. Some questions seem to have a cycle that is 'frequent'
but may not be 'monthly', so that perusing two or three months of
copious posting history might not turn them all up... Then Mary,
unh, I mean the editor, can post a list of them to the net for
comment/addition/deletion. How does that sound?

Just a thought...


-Lauren


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:52:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.165410.13353@macc.wisc.edu>, nmrdb@vms.macc.wisc.edu (BEVERLY SEAVEY) wre: Dance Notatation                          [23] Michael J. Seibl    ::ZZ
|> In article <1992Dec17.232404.1252@nas.nasa.gov>, seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl) writes...
<Stuiff deleted>
|> I'm a serious dancer and I can say "videotape" just fine, and I  do videotape
|> a lot, but there is a lot that you can't see on videotape. Subtle torso 
|> and shoulder moves, what labonotation calls energy level,... I don't
|> consider a dance properly recorded until I have written a lot of notes. And
|> until you force yourself to sit down and notate a dance you don't understand
|> it. Videotaping is like photocopying an article so you don't have to read it.

Hoping to head off a flame war, rest assured that there was no disrespect intended. I assumed that the recording of your techniques, katas, whathave yous, was for your own personal or someone who has your understanding of your art's perusal. I did not realize that you wanted to be able to tell a neophyte how to completely understand everything that you recorded.

Please understand that there are people who can get everything from looking at a videotape of stuff they alreadu understand.


Seib


		Live long, and perspire.




Seib Seibl   Computer Science Corp. NASA/Ames Research Center
             Moffet Field, Ca       Harware Support Engineer
	     (415) 604-4620

Seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cadesjar@leibniz.uwaterloo.ca (Curtis Desjardins)
Subject: Karatemania V results wanted...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:21:28 GMT


I was watching the matches last night, but was unfortunate to have my
cable go down during the Jean Yves Theriault vs. Leo de Snoo match.
I got to see the first 3 rounds, and was wondering what the results were.

Did Theriault take back his title?


========================= Fluffy the Wonder Bunny ============================
 	Sleep all day. Party all night. Never grow old. Never die.  
	It's fun to be a vampire. 	(The Lost Boys)
================== cadesjardins@descartes.waterloo.edu =======================
  Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature and join the fun!
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo.  A technique that has worked for me.
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:05:53 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec16.104028.27544@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>A technique which has worked well for me in recent years is one handed
>kouchi gari.  Kouchi, as it is affectionately called, is the throw in
>which your right foot (RF) grabs the heel of his RF as you drop him
>straight down onto his back.

	Kouchi gari means "little inside reap"; you pull his foot in
the direction of his toes then knock him down.

	I always do this with my left foot against his left foot.  That lets 
me drive off my right leg for the followup.  Which leads into:

>ideal opponent to try this throw on is one who steps forward with his
>RF when you begin a right sided forward head-over-heels type throw:
>fake and anticipate; don't give his foot a chance to touch the ground,

	Instead of using seoinage (or whatever) to set up for kouchi, I use
kouchi to set up for harai (or seoi):

	Pull hard on his left (right) sleeve/elbow/lapel.  If he 

		a) steps forward 

		attack his foot with kouchi.  If he escapes continue with
		a forward throw.

		b) pulls back to resist your pull

		now push on the same side you were just pulling on.
		The weight comes off that foot and you can attack 
		with kouchi.  Remember to do what scott says and pull
		straight down or to the same side you're attacking.  This
		throw will fail if you simply drive him over his strong leg.

		c) steps down hard on the foot you're attacking so you can't
	        reap it.
		
		Drive your foot in well past (behind) his leg but keep
		contact.  Instead of reaping his foot pull down and in
		with the hand holding his arm and drive him over your
		own leg.  I find it works best of you drop your own
		shoulders to his waist and push/twist, so that (if you
		were attacking his left side) your left shoulder ends
		up buried in the the center of his stomach.  This is
		kouchi-gake.

			
> I pull with my RH to get him to step forward with his RF.  

	Are you using a cross grip?
								wr
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:15:58 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <memo.811753@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>Does anyone have a neat way of describing techniques without a great long
>description in words. i.e. some form of ascii short hand notation that
>is clear. If not can we develop one? Something that everyone here can
>learn to use so that we can discuss more technical concepts without being
>too badly misunderstood.

Good question, Bill.

Obviously those with a common vocabulary or common nomenclature can do
so easily, but that doesn't do much for cross-fertilization, does it?

I think Dave Smythe had a good contribution to this, in terms of
describing individual movements, and we might be able to adopt some of
these as a standard nomenclature, and maybe even get them in the FAQ, as
long as it looks like that project is going to be undertaken. 

But, I think Dave's ideas need a bit of fleshing out to describe a
person on person scenario, and it often seems that is of more interest
to the group at large. It can become very confusing using right and
left, pronoun refernces become vague and in general it takes a
tremendous amount of text to do this. 

A couple possible proposals:

Use of the terms inside/outside to refer to general movements with
respect to the body in question. 

Use of terms cross-handed or same-handed to indicate the spacial
relationship between the two opponents. I think this works especially
well, since it seems more relevent that using left and right, since
techniques should work on both sides!

Use of terms high/middle/low to indicate the level of the attack or
defense. 

I think we still need left/right, compass points and the like, but the
above three descriptors seem to be pretty generic to me, and should work
well, and be more compact. 

Ex.

Opponent throws a high punch with right hand. I counter with a
cross-handed block on the inside, control the arm with the same-side
hand, and strike high with the initial blocking hand. 

Is that pretty clear? It is generic in many ways, the block and the
strikes are not described in detail, but is that important? If we are
talking about general tactics, such as the above description of what we
call a three-handed technique, I think it does fairly well. It may not
work with more detailed technical descriptions. 

Anyway, just some ideas, lets hear suggestions, critique, etc.

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 13 Dec 1992 18:04:48 CST
From: <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido Question (no, this is not a poll...)

  Well, I have had this problem once.  Since the student provided realistic
attacks, I got my teacher's permission to use realistic defenses, except of
course stop short of really huring him.  Worked great for me.

  -tcr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: egross@jarthur.claremont.edu (Erik Maynard Gross)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:12:26 GMT

In article <42441@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) writes:
>I think what I would do is put a nikyo (aikido, the 'tupperware'
>technique). Drop him with my center thereby ripping out his
>shoulder. Then I would keep the pin because even if he is 7' 300
>lbs. and using PCP, he won't be able to get out of the pin without
>ripping his arm off.  As for the second thing i would do,
>well...that's all folks.
>
>Dave (using Dzu's account)
>
>
	Nikyo is generally a great technique, but I'm not so sure about 
its appliaction here.  Nikyo is genreally a "pain" technique.  Although there
are non-pain uses, but they are very difficult.  Remember that this guy is very strong, and is on PCP.
	At your dojo, try doing nikyo on someone who is fairly strong,
and tell them to resist it.  It's surprisingly hard, even for an advanced
Aikidoka.
	Also, in our "Thugs" altered state, why would ripping his shoulder
out bother him?  He probably wouldn't notice it till he had killed a few 
more people.
	In addition, any technique that rely's on his reaction (ie, you 
lower him, and expect him to stand back up) would not be ideal, because 
his reactions are liable to be bizzare. 
	The one thing PCP can't alter is the laws of physics.  My assumption
is that he is charging you, so probably "simple" randori throw.  It would
get you on the other side of him, and give you a chance to practice 
nike-dori until you could call the cops.
	They get paid to deal with that kind of crap.  plus they've got lots
of neat tasers and chemicals and such.  If all that fails, they will usuall 
be happy to gang up on him and beat him with batons, while someone records
it on videotape.  :)

	-erik

All discalmers.  (except that second one.)
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:01:35 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <75486@apple.apple.COM>, mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
> In article <1992Dec10.210038.29499@reed.edu> todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
>>What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
>>If the proverbial 7'-300lb-PCP using-steroid monkey-whose spent half
>>his life in Folsom prison-and wants to rip your lungs out was in the
>>alley with you and you could set up one or two shots what would they
>>be? No guns or knives allowed.
> 
> Let's see; I've sparred a bit with a couple of guys in this size
> range recently; one was a charger, the other more of a wait-and-see
> type. Against the charger what seemed to work was a last-minute
> oblique evasion followed by a knee hard in the ribs as he went
> by to stop him and set up a kick to the knee to take him off his
> feet.
> 
> Against the wait-and-see guy it seemed better to draw a hand strike
> that I could evade into a monkey-style climb up his body to where
> I could abuse his head with my elbow and his ribs with my knee.
> 
> 


OK for the dojo, but that PCP condition really throws a monkey wrench into the
works.  Plenty of cases where a normal joe spaced out on PCP fights off 5-6
cops who are trying to BEAT him into submission.  Yeah, the knee would be my
first target, but my first reaction would be to run like hell.  Being backed
into an alley by a 300 lbs, 7' sociopath strung out on PCP sounds like The
Terminator come true.  Sounds like a pretty sucky situation to me.  I'd still
go for the knee, but I have my doubts . . .

Jeff
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:46:34 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Attacker has lifted you into
>the air; arms are trapped just below elbow level and you cannot use the ground
>for leverage.

We work with this attack regularly, though we don't usually introduce the 
solar plexus attack. Phase one of the release is to flop like a fish.
Not very sophisticated, perhaps, but I have a student who weighs about
110 lbs who can reliably flip free of another who weighs upwards of 220.
In fact, she flipped herself free so violently on one occasion that it
sent her through the air to plunge face first toward the floor, and
staggered her partner backward. There are a couple of tricks to getting
the flopping to work effectively (for example, it's important to
pick your knees up and drop them repeatedly and violently; just
wiggling your waist doesn't cut it). Mainly, though, the hardest
thing for people to grasp seems to be that you have to put the
strength of your whole body into the flopping as if your life depended
on it ('cuz maybe it does). I try to get people to think of how
hard it is to hold onto a live fish, despite the difference in
size between human and fish.

I'm going to have to get some of our bigger students to pick me up
and squeeze me; I want to see whether the solar plexus attack hinders
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Realistic Escrima
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:01:31 GMT

silatman@hls.com writes:
>
>   All Escrima styles must eventually become double-stick
>styles. The reason is that single-stick Escrima has an
>inherent weakness. This weakness is on the side that does
>not have the stick, meaning if you carry the stick in
>your right hand, your left flank is your weakness. You need
>a weapon in the left hand, in order to be able to defend
>the left flank. 

I agree with this, but would add that the second weapon need not
be literally a stick.  A dagger in the alive hand corrects that
weak side problem pretty well.

>   If you have been practicing single-stick Escrima 
>most of the time, you should now practice for ambidexterity, 
>doing all techniques with stick in the left hand.

Yes, I finally had to make a rule for myself that I would do
*all* of the drills on both sides and would do half again as
many repetitions on the left (my weak) side.   My left side work
still lags behind my right, but following these rules is
gradually narrowing the difference.

>   In addition, you must be able to integrate short range 
>and long range with fluidity. For this, your fighting 
>stick should be midway between Serrada and Largo Mano 
>length.

Working with stick and dagger can be helpful here.  The stick is
a relatively long range weapon, the dagger comes into its own at
close range.  Learning to wield both simultaneously in 
interlocking patterns of offense and defense is where escrima 
begins to feel more like an art and less like tennis ;-)
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gritz@seas.gwu.edu (Larry Gritz)
Subject: Re: The power of the mind
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:06:31 GMT

In article <18DEC199209035662@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca> villard@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Excuse me sir...What does this core meltdown light mean) writes:
>I just wanted to post something with regards to all of the discussions 
>on chi and the like.

Fine.

>What one must remember is this, scientists agree 
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that the power of the mind, if tapped, could quite logically be 
>limitless.

Really?  Please supply a reference to a peer-reviewed scientific
journal that says that the "power of the mind, if tapped, could quite
logically be limitless."



>Now this doesn't mean that we are going to all fly or something, but 
>it does mean we can all do the Kreskin thing if we trained our mind. 

I totally agree -- each and every one of us can become a parlor
magician if we set our minds to it.  Such tricks are simple to learn,
and believe me, they have absolutely nothing to do with chi/ki.

>Kent 
>2nd Dan Jiu jitsu


	-- Larry
	   (2nd Dan TKD, 14 years MA experience)

--
Larry Gritz,   gritz@seas.gwu.edu	  Dept. of EE & CS
The George Washington University          801  22nd St. NW, Rm. T-624G
(202) 994-0460 (voice) -0227 (fax)	  Washington, DC 20052



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher)
Subject: Re: Dance Notation
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:09:51 GMT

Thanks to all who posted and mailed me.

I have since found some books on dance notations,
which I'm now researching.  If I come up with anything
good, I'll post my summaries.  It seems as if the
notation is far too complex to use for my purposes
though, but I'll keep reading.....


Thanks again.

			Erik
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts