From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: SKIP'S POINTS ARE *SILLY*! ;)Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:58:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.005021.13155@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.231206.20185@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>White, conservative, atheist from the South you may be, BUT:
>>
>>In article <1992Nov9.200117.27089@cs.olemiss.edu> skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>>Sounds like you are one of those boring people who use computers for such
>>>mundane tasks as word processing, spreadsheets, and that sort of thing.
>>
>>Huh?  This started out about using the computer for engineering.
>>I think it would be reasonable to assume that the PC would be better than an
>>Amiga in the case.
>
>But Dan, do you really think that someone such as myself could just leave
>this alone and not twist the argument around?  :-)  Hey, this is .advocacy
>and nothing can be assumed, reasonable or otherwise.  :-)

Naw....;)

>>As for word processing and speadsheet - they are only practical.  They day the
>>Amiga gets a good WordPerfect/Word/AmiPro and Excel/1-2-3 is the day the Amiga
>>get looks at.
>
>I teach 1-2-3, but I could care less if it was available for the Amiga.  I'm
>sure that others will disagree, but it is my opinion that we don't need a 
>lot of boring business types messing everything up.  Having that sort of user
>could be as bad as (I forgot, I promised not to talk politics anymore :-))

Are you PLEASED with the Amigas near-total obscurity?!  Skip, the world of 
small computers revolves around businesses.  *You* may think they are boring,
and *I* may think spreadsheets are boring, but it seems that a computer needs
a GOOD one to simply sell.

So you'd prefer the Amiga to sell pathetically with KOOL D00Ds using them
rather than have them sell well (!) with Boring People running productivity
software on them?  It is the PC's huge market dominance that enables those
'Incredibly Boring Machines' to have fantastic non-business software for it.
There is, to my knowledge, NO Amiga fighter simulation comparable to Falcon3.0.
I know of nothing for the Amiga like Ultima Underworld.  Undoubtedly, some 
higher end Amigas could *do* these two 'games', but due to the 'KOOL D00Ds 
computing in obscurity' attitude you and Microsoft/Lotus/etc take you cannot
get them! (Falcon3.0, UU)

>>>Try to equip a PC for multimedia and you'll see one area in which the Amiga
>>>is much better suited.  The company I work for is putting together systems
>>>for salesmen to take on the road with them, consisting of the CPU, a genlock,
>>>a laserdisk, audio capability, and software.  The PC systems require an SVGA
>>>board with genlock capability ($500 for a decent one), a SoundBlaster Pro
>>>(which still does measure up to the native Amiga audio), 8M RAM if you are
>>>running Windows, and at least a 386-33 for minimal performance.  By contrast,
>>>an Amiga A1200 will do everything that the Clone will and do it better.
>>
>>I do not know of ANY multimedia software for the Amiga.  Do you really think 
>>the CDTV can match (an admittedly much more expensive) an IBM Ultimedia 
>>system??
>
>Well, they say that ignorance is bliss.  :-)  Seriously, check out Scala MM,
>AmigaVision, CanDo, and others, there is plenty of software available now
>and more on the way.  As for CDTV, I never said that I thought much of it,
>did I?  In fact, I don't see it doing well unless Commodore beefs it up 
>with the AGA chipset and some sort of FMV.

Hmm.  That is my PC-ness showing through.  To most people, Multimedia=CDROM.
I do  not know of ANY CDROM multimedia software for the Amiga.

Personally, I do not see them inherit benefits of this so called 'Multimedia'
standard.  I think it has been pretty hyped up.  I would think of it more
as 'oohh, a CDROM with an interactive encyclopedia with digitized sound samples'.

In other words, Mutlimedia, IMNSHO != good presentation software.  This show
how C= is outta touch with what 'multimedia' is to most people.  When they know
enough about multimedia to do "multimedia things", they won't consider an Amiga.
MAYBE if it used a CD a lot....otherwise I just see them going and getting
a PC.

>>PC 'genlocks'/TV-in-a-window cost $250-ish at my local Babbages.  Heck, that
>>looks REAL good.  While the native Amiga audio is great, it does not measure 
>
>If you are referring to those VideoBlasters and other things, get a clue.
>The quality on those things is terrible and the software is a hack at best.

Actually, Skip, I have an abundance of 'clues'.  Would you like one of mine?
You are sorely lacking....

(wow, that was a *good* shot! ;)  )

Anyway, I am referring to the 'WinTV' and 'PS/2 TV' things.  I think the PS/2
thing costs more.  I don't think they have the TV as a the desktop background,
but can have it fullscreen and in a windows.  The window (in Windows and OS/2)
isn't resizeable...darn. ;)  And yes, the display does look a bit frotched in
the windowed display, but that's what you expect resizing the picture down to 
320X200 or somesuch teeny size.

>>up to the high end sound cards available for PCs - Get this: the ONLY people 
>>who will really take advantage of any superior sound will be musicians with 
>>music software - in which case they won't be using a SBPro, probably.  The
>
>That's the problem, the SBPro is something of a standard and all software
>will have to support it.  It sucks and the Developer's Kit sucks even more.

The only programming I do is in FORTRAN - and that is because THEY MAKE ME.
I really don't think programming is so hot, and do not give a darn how lousy
the SBDK is - just as long as it is profitable for developers to use it anyway
and give me games with cool sound <insert Falcon3.0's 'Copy waypoint bypass' and
'I've gone Winchester'.

>>amount of RAM used by Windows (or OS/2 for that matter) isn't as big an issue
>>with the 486 system you buy will likely be considerably cheaper than a 
>>comparable Amiga400.  Note
>
>Well, the A400 is not out yet, but I'd bet that it will be cheaper than the
>486.  :-)

A400?  What is that?  Ohh!  oh!! Ooops,  I hate making typos! :-)

>Seriously, RAM suddenly became an issue when the (...) decided to place a
>tariff on the chips a couple of weeks ago.  
>
>>that I do not speak about the Amiga1200 - I don't know too much about it.
>>
>>So, in a nutshell, is the Amiga1200 an A600+HD+AGA, with a 68000?
>
>68EC020 @ 14.32MHz, 4x bandwith of A3000, same video specs as A4000,
>rumored price less than $1000.

By the Way, if it only cost $10 or so more to use a ful 68020 WITH MMU...
why not?  I don't see why you ought to cripple yourself now when in the future
you might want VM.  But the big question remains....DOES IT COME WITH A HARD
DRIVE AND MONITOR for <$1000?!

Also, azre you _sure_ it isn't 14.33 ot 14.31 Mhz that the 68EC020 runs
at? :-)

>>>Clones are fine for boring everyday tasks, but they cannot hold a candle to
>>>an Amiga when it comes to cutting edge applications.
>>
>>Cutting edge applications...like what?  I see none!  Please advocate to me!! :-)
>
>Virtual Reality apps, morphing packages out the yin-yang, etc.

These aren't available for PCs?  I have seem VR apps.  And aren't we being a bit
selective here in what applications types we choose?  Gahh, what?! no
cutting edge word processors with Unlimited Undo?! :-)

>>Really, I have read and posted to this group about a year now, and see no
>>general-purpose advantage to Amigas other than the Amiga500 (or the A600).  
>>Because of low cost.  The Video Toaster is good for TV production.  Neither 
>>of these can make the Amiga widespread.
>
>Maybe not, but that won't happen in any case.
>
>>>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>>>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
>>
>>Perhaps if Amiga4000s sold for $2300 with a multisybc and had Word and Excel 
>>on the 300meg harddrive.... sigh.
>
>Nah, then it would be no better than a PC!  :-)

Oh yeah, like an Amigan who once tried to convince me that his Amiga had a good
resale value for what he paid for it..  ha!  NO SHIT, you pay shitloads for
an Amiga3000 X years ago...it is a GOOD thing you can try to recoup some of the
initial expenses.

>It does sell for $2795 and is at least equivalent to a 486-50DX2 with MCA
>or EISA, LocalBus coprocessed SVGA, a SoundBlaster, and OS/2.

Skip, are you aware of the datarates in the EISA? MCA? LOCALBUS?  Man, Localbus 
is wicked fast.  And one thing your A4000 cannot do out of the box: run Windows.
(Ohh, I *knew* that would get you! ;)  )

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
--
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy