From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter)
Subject: Re: Conference, Sino-Tibetan Relations: Prospects for the future
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:23:29 GMT

In article 1453 yangze@acf3.nyu.edu (Ze Yang) writes:
>Do you think it is also an invasion that the Union's force 
>marched to Gorgia? If it is so, than invasions don't mean bad.
 
Absolutely.  And if the US South wants independence then the question 
should be addressed, peaceably by referenda, I would hope.  Do you 
think the Tibetan people are capable enough to decide for themselves 
in a referendum?
 
 
In article 1455 phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng) writes:
>>I take it then that you agree that China has "behaved like a bully" by 
>>invading Tibet, since you do not rebut this point in my previous posting. 
>You have made a mistake here.  I didn't make the correpsonding comment
>does not mean I agree with your view.  It just means that I was not
>interested in giving comments on those words.
 
Sorry.  Would you care to explain what you think China behaved like 
by invading Tibet?
 
>From my understanding of your words above, Canada (only one of many
>Western countries) is going to consider the right of self-determination
>in the country. Thus may I ask you to wait until the problem of your
>country is fixed and then to teach Chinese what to do.
 
I don't expect to teach you anything; I am merely expressing views 
which Tibetans and many others hold on the political situation in
Tibet.  
 
There are many PRC nationals in the West learning all kinds of things. 
Unfortunately, for them, some of the things they learn here are a 
little uncomfortable to them.  One of those things are that peoples  
of all types have rights to self-determination, and increasingly
they are demanding that those rights be fully realized.  We are 
learning that in Canada.  It *is* uncomfortable for *all* of us.  
 
>Would you please explain the sentence 'If Canada or any single province
>votes no ........ Canada.'.  Why Canada is at the same level as the
>provinces?  Do you mean that the future of Quebec depends on the result
>of the vote based on all of the provinces, but not only on people in
>Quebec.
 
The rules are that there must be a majority in favour of the new 
constitutional accord in *each* province.  So, to be absolutely
clear here: if Quebec or any other province decides "no", then 
the accord will not be promulgated.  It is widely expected that 
Quebec will leave the Canadian federation if the new accord is not 
accepted, and they will have that right.
 
>I don't mind to have a vote of national wide in China to determine the
>future of Tibet and Xinjiang.  The result is quite obvious.
 
Why not let each province and autonomous region decide in the same 
way Canada is deciding?  Are you afraid of the results?
 
 
In article 1456 phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng) writes:
>Canada should return the whole country to the aboriginals.  That means you
>may have to leave the country.
 
Shall I go to China?  
 
>Can you give more details of the amends?  You should teach Chinese what
>to do after you have fixed your similar problem.  China is trying to learn
>from the Western countries.  The Chinese government is defending Tibet like
>the Great British government which sent troops and warships to defend a small 
>island closed to Argentina.
 
Large land claims have been negotiated or are under negotiation in most 
provinces and territories.  Large tracts of land have already be given 
back to various aboriginal groups.  We are talking millions of acres 
of land.  
 
 
In article 1457 phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng) writes:
>Aboriginals in Canada do not want other people to organise the country
>for them. The Canada government should show some maturity and let the
>Aboriginals decide for themself.  All Canadians except for the
>aboriginals should leave the country immediately and leave the whole
>Canada to the aboriginals.
 
The aborigines *are* deciding for themselves.  They have taken part 
as full partners in the constitutional debates.  They have accepted 
the process, and they are looking forward to further negotiations 
with the Canadian and provincial governments.
 
 
In article 1458 ldong@hila.hut.fi (Liyun Dong) writes:
>If everybody in China enjoys a 5 or 6 digit salary, there may be some
>discussions about whether to let people in minority region to vote for
>their future.
 
What does economics have to do with it?  Or do you mean, "Once the 
'treasure house' (Xizang) has been fully exploited for the benefit of 
Chinese, and everyone in China has enough money in their pockets, then 
let's talk."
 
>The same is also for the West: can you believe 50 or 100 years ago, when
>Canadians were earning a 2 or 3 digit salaries just as in nowadays China,
>there was any possibility to let French speaking people to be independent?
 
Again, what does economics have to do with this.  We are talking about 
the rights of people to govern themselves.  Tibetans want to govern 
themselves.  They do not want Chinese controlling their country.  
 
>Even 10 or 20 years ago, someone was talking about 'use military' if Quebec was
>going to be independent.
 
Don't confuse yourself over the FLQ crisis.  Trudeau, the prime minister 
at the time, invoked emergency powers to counter a perceived threat 
from FLQ terrorists.  The 'crisis' did not last more than a few days. 
Still, many Canadians feel that Trudeau went way too far for such a 
small threat.  In any case, not one Canadian was killed by the government 
forces.  The Chinese forces, on the otherhand, have been brutal in Tibet.
 
>Even today any independence issue about Quebec is still on people's lips yet.
>I doubt if it will be reality in a predictable future.
 
We shall see what happens with Quebec; but why can't the Chinese 
government give Tibetans the chance to decide for themselves?
 

-- 
Conrad Richter                     richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
Richters Herbs                     71550.3411@compuserve.com
Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada        Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china