HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott.mayall@cccbbs.UUCP (Scott Mayall) 
Newsgroups: alt.dcom.telecom
Subject: FRONT DOOR
Date: 11 Apr 92 09:50:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Cincinnati Computer Connection BBS - Cincinnati, OH - 513-752-8248
Reply-To: scott.mayall@cccbbs.UUCP (Scott Mayall) 

I need a little help on the Front Door Mailer...How do you add the
Nodediff file to the main nodelist?  I tried adding the filename to the
Fdnode.ctl with and it will incorporate but it won't add my private
nodelist with it...What am I doing wrong?  The DOCs never mention how to
update the nodelist just how to compile it and add private lists.
Any help would be appreciated.
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Perfect victim?
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:13:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <16APR199217215891@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>I'm starting to have the terrible fear that I am that "perfect victim" that 
>I hear the psychologists talking about.  That I have the victim mentality, 
>simply because of what I went through as a child.
>
>I've never really stood up for myself.  When I do, it's because someone 
>pushes me to do so, and I'm actually doing it for someone else.  Talk about 
>a victim!
>
>I'm just really afraid that I'm a victim, I've always been a victim, I'll 
>always *be* a victim.  And it's frightening to think that I'll never get 
>out of the cycle.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions?  Or a helping hand?

Teresa, 

I'm no expert, but I think you and I were both victims.  Were.  Past
tense.  I'm a survivor now, not a victim, and I think you are too.  No,
I *know* you are too.  You're posting here, after all.  You're working
on your healing, you're reaching out to people, you're doing what it
takes.  You're not a victim any more!  


-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Problems with a new baby in the family
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:13:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 1750

In article <1992Apr13.184633.8303@cis.ohio-state.edu>, hartfiel@cis.ohio-state.edu (mathew alan hartfield) writes:
>
>       Today I'm writing because my brother's wife just had a baby,
>and I'm really upset about it.  I hate the thought that he is going
>to go through the same things that my family did to me.
>
>       I don't have long to write(gotta go to class), but I'd appreciate it
>if anyone who sees this would post a response.  I have really been upset
>about this, and today I binged, and wanted to purge.

Hi Matt -- it is nice to hear from you, though I can relate to how
upset you are about having a new extended family member brought into
a family that doesn't work right (at least that's how it feels to me
when I think about my nieces).

I have been cowardly and done nothing active about this situation.  I
am working on getting myself ok so that my nieces (and nephew by
marriage) will have an aunt who can give them support and help when they
need it -- I certainly haven't been able to give them support before
this.  At least it is a start.

Maybe you can think of ways to let your new nephew understand that he
has an uncle who is there for him and with whom he can be himself and
be ok.  Don't know what to say otherwise, but I hope things are
different for him.  At least he does have an uncle -- a resource you
perhaps didn't have.

lots of luck -- do what you can to be good to yourself so you can be
there for him.  If you have the energy and courage to be real active
about giving him some of the things you didn't get, more power to you.

Nancy
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: re: SUGGESTIONS PLEASE
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:50:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44437
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)

Has your sister asked you for help in this?  Shouldn't _she_ be the one to seek
out these places?  It seems to me that she should take responsibility for her
own recovery; you can support her, but beware of rescuing. (That's my advice;
you can take what you like and leave the rest).  One time I was suicidal and I
think the best thing anyone ever did for me was to not answer my cry for help
as he thought it was enabling me.  I got help elsewhere, from a professional.  

Take care, Bron 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Re: test
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 15 Apr 1992 08:12 EST  

In article <1992Apr14.191608.5395@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ReNeE) writes...
>In article <1992Apr14.190402.4896@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ReNeE) writes...
>i've been depressed lately, last night i kept from cutting myself to try not\
>to think about stuff. I feel like i'm faking my recovery. Like i'm skirting
>it and avoiding it. like i'm ignoring it. i don't know what to do
>i'm lonely....
>i'm scared....
>all i want is some one to cry on.......to hold and never let go
>i feel cheated, and abandoned and pissed! and sad all at once
>my emotions are going crazy
>i can't control them
>i don't want to......sigh.......

I can relate.  I don't have anyone to cry on either, and that's very hard.  
To me, there is nothing more depressing than crying alone, so it just seems 
to cycle around.  Instead of getting it out, I just get more depressed.  
But, I'll survive.  Like you, right?

> 
>i hate then for what they did to me...I HATE THEM .......i do i HATE THEM SO ..
>MUCH IT HURTS.......I hate them ALL......HHHHAAATTTTEEEEEE..... i HATE HATE them
>!!!!!! i hope they burn in the fires of hell....i hope that they die a firey
>death wide awake.....i hope they suffer so great as their flesh burns away that
>no one has ever suffered such a fate (besides other perps). I hope they scream
>in agony as the devils little minions come and stab them with there pitch forks
>and drag them into hell.......I HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i've never been
>able to say that but i do i HATE THEM ALL......

I keep imagining the devils in "Ghost".  If you haven't seen the movie, see 
it.  The shadows become these screaming beings that drag bag guys to the 
netherworld.  And they KNOW where they're going!

>sorry this is so down but one minute i'm o.k. the next i want to disappear 
>{which wouldn't help any} or to jump off a bridge {which i don't think i'd do
>either}.........sniff....sniff...

Please don't do either.  Just hold on.

> 
>:^( i hope you all out there are doing better then me and i hope i don't worry
>anyone to much, don't worry i'll bouce back i always do......
>ReNeE

Yeah, I always tell people "I'll be all right".  Of course, I *don't* tell 
them when.  I can assure you it's not immediately.  
Just know that we care, and that you can call on us anytime.

Gentleness to all!
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: twnv6@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: hugs
Reply-To: twnv6@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:23:30 GMT

To Ladyhawke--

	Lots and lots and lots and lots of hugs.  I hope that things work out
well.


	*smiles*      
	   pj
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: Dealing with death
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:06:12 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, asar.230@wpi.wpi.edu wrote of imminent death of
perp, and how to deal with this death if she(?) has never confronted
him.

I'm not sure what to say about this except to remember that you are
alive, living, and hopefully soone a really good life, while he cannot
enjoy that, and he did have to live much of his life knowing that he
molested you (whether this made him feel badly or not is a different story).

Good luck and e-hugs if you want them.

                                                                        ____
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \  /
     April 4, 1992  Marjorie Stoneman Douglas' 102nd birthday            \/
      I'll probably see her out dancing.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: johnl@gss.com (John Light)
Subject: Re: Inner Children and Pregnancy and Childbirth...
Organization: Graphic Software Systems, Beaverton, OR
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:51:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.182532.16247@wpi.WPI.EDU> asar.181@wpi.wpi.edu   writes:
>  I found the question interesting because Sex and Pregnancy
>are 2 things that she (my inner child) is too young to understand
>She's 6 (at her youngest age).  Yet she does know a lot about
>sex even though she shouldn't.
>
>Jay

In general, six is not too young for a child to know about sex and
pregnancy.   For example, most kids raised on working farms know a lot
about both by that age.  It's only in our modern urban society that the
realities of life fail to intrude.

I don't know exactly what my kids knew about sex and pregnancy at that
age, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised that they knew quite a bit.
I'm not saying that *your* experiences and feelings about them are wrong
for you.  I was just responding to your generalization.  And maybe your
6-year-old knows more than you suspect.

John Light
johnl@gss.com
From: johnl@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Coming asar-anon status?
Date: 12 Apr 92 18:13:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: yang.1992Apr12.131325.16884
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana


	Would someone either e-mail me or post the latest word on what's 
going on with the anonymous posting service?  I mean, what will be 
happening with it in a month or two.  I remember reading that Peter Fay, 
who administers to the current posting service was being laid off soon (I 
hope not, though :-).  I also remember reading about another posting 
service that someone else (sorry, I can't remember your name) has 
created/is working on in order to fill this coming need.
	Anyway, I'd like to know this as soon as possible. I'm making up a 
public list of resources for survivors here on campus, and I'd like to 
include a.s.a.r., 'cause y'all are truly amazing people :-)
	I need to make sure it won't be outdated for awhile, though, 
because I won't be here after June (I'm being laid off, too, I think), and 
I don't think a lot of people around here know about this group.
	Thanks in advance.  I hope you all have happy, fun days today, and 
peaceful, safe, restful dreams when you sleep.

	John Fiskio-Lasseter
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: thelma and louise (movie)
From: jfriedman@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:44:29 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Bron-

	I was having this same conversation yesterday with a friend (also a
survivor) and I was somewhat apalled at myself, but not surprised to hear
myself say to her that I would pull that trigger in an instant.  I truly
believe that I would, and this scares me a bit (OK, a lot)  I think it is a
revenge sort of thing - although I know that violence repaying violence is not
an ideal, it often makes sense.  Sometimes I think that murder is too good for
rapists, since they not only kill their victims, but leave them to live with
having died.  Most of the time I am just scared of the anger I feel (like now,
as I am writing this and realizing how awful it sounds)  Anyhow, I guess the
movie has somewhat personal connotations for me, because if I had gone to see
it when it was playing on my campus, I wouldn't have gotten into the situation
in which I was assaulted.  Bitter irony, but somehow approporiate.  You are not
alone in your anger.  Don't let it take over, though.  Peace and strength,

				-jac (aka rubber duck)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl)
Subject: Re: RE: Overt paedophilia IS sexual abuse (Re: sex/power)
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:41:10 GMT

In article <8APR92.15354695@enh.nist.gov>, Sim writes:
> ....
> People who commit sexual abuse are sick.  They have a disease.  The disease
> must be treated, not forced away into some netherworld where it'll
> just come bubbling back up to the surface.  The abuser must be made to
> deal with his illness.  Causing an alcoholic or drug addict to feel shame
> over their behavior does not in any way help them stop abusing alcohol or
> drugs.  Causing a perpetrator to feel shame over his/her behavior is likely
> to have the same effect.
> 
> One cannot be shamed into changing behavior.  The disease must be treated,
> not beaten underground.  If the disease is beaten underground, that's
> exactly where the behavior will go, and the abuser will keep on abusing.

Maybe this is one of those you-vs.-your-behavior issues. I agree that to
be ashamed of who or what you are (e.g., child abuser, alcoholic, bisexual)
is destructive. I'm not sure why you equate being ashamed with beating a
disease underground. No, I cannot be shamed into changing my behavior,
but the shame I feel when I think of some of the things I have done or
said while under the influence of alcohol does help me to control my
drinking. So, to repeat my previous post, it would be wrong to shame someone
for saying "Hi, my name is Mary, and I'm an alcoholic," and, yes, to
shame somebody for saying that would probably increase rather than
decrease the amount of alcoholic behavior.

Another subtlety here is feeling shame vs. being shamed. If, while drunk,
I (again) smash my husband's favorite vase, and he shames me for it,
than yes, you are right again, this would increase my tendency to drink
too much. But if he confronted me with my behavior in such a way that I
had to take responsibility for it (not by saying I'm "bad" for having done
it; that would be shaming), I =would= be left with feelings of shame
and I =would= be motivated to change my behavior.

This still seems a bit jumbled, but I guess what I'm saying, taking this
post and my last one together is:

- there's a difference between feeling shame for something you did and
   feeling shame for something that was done to you
- there's a difference between feeling shame for who you are and feeling
   shame for what you've done
- there's a difference between feeling shame out of taking responsibility
   for your own actions and feeling shame because somebody else shamed you

I don't mean to be disagreeable with you, Sim, because I have a lot of
respect for you! I guess I've sort of agreed with a lot of what you've
said; I just felt that shame, like anger (as Peter said) isn't =always=
bad; it can be used as a tool in recovery =IF= it's used constructively.

Friends in healing,
Black Pearl
From: chrislyn@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Tracey L. Stanchfield)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Telling
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:27:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-cs.1434
Organization: Dept of CS Ball State University Muncie In


Edward--
thanks so much for sharing your story with us-- it is so good to hear 
that a fellow survivor is believed & empathized with.

tracey
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: asar.313@wpi.wpi.edu (Frog) 
Subject:  First Frog
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:31:39 GMT


	The nikname I chosed is Frog, not for the jumps but for the
eyes: wide open. Because not only I have not forgotten and I have
never forgotten, but also because I have remembered every day of my
life, since ...

	I have been wondering how long back can you remember things.
The first few month and probably the first year are out of the
question but after that, it posible varies with the individual. In my
case, I would put my earliest remembrance at about 2 years or even
earlier. In that remembrance, I see myself in an open field; the sky
is clear and a fixed bird is in it, right above us; a male adult
(probably my father) is holding my hand. Next come an scene where I am
hiding from a group of curious and teasing girls because I am nude
from the waist down; this also happened, most likely arround the age
of two. Then, or may be before comes the first part of my traumatic
experience. But that belongs to another post.

Frog.



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From: v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ReNeE)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: no green m&m's for me
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>Aw, come on, you still deserve green m&m's!
> 
>Friends in healing,
>Black Pearl



o.k o.k. i'll just have one..........well maybe one more.......this is the last
one......ohh that one is calling me....
ReNeE
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: sex/power
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:14:53 GMT

(Chris writes a response to Alan's story...in which he extrapolates
at least as much into the story as I did (perhaps more))

Surprise.  I've heard exactly the same stock phrases as Chris
wrote in this article from people who were openly advocating
their right to viciously abuse children and women.  I've been
calmly trying to accept that what we've got is merely a linguistic
problem here, but if it were, then I'd expect Chris to make a
more responsible effort to use common words in their common meanings
and/or define his own uncommon meanings before using them.
At this time I only hear perp advocacy under the guise of
"children's sexuality rights" from Chris.  Hello---most of us
who have Ph.D's had to learn to explain ourselves to non-specialists
as part of getting them (I certainly did!).  If you really have
something credible to say, give it a try.
From: 00rmosadczuk@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Followup on Ladyhawke
Date: 16 Apr 92 04:12:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr15.231214.6544

This is in followup to my earlier post..

My tests came out negative, so I will live!  (always a nice thought if you ask
me) but I have learned many, many things about life that I didn't know before. 
LIfe is the nost preciuos gift I have, and I doubt I will ever be suicidal
again! ( yeah!)  I know that this doesn't relate much to sexual abuse...so i'm
sorry to go on and on...
In love and friendship,
In love and friendship,

Ladyhawke

E-hug to everyone (who wants then!)
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: re: is this abuse?
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:49:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44684
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)


   Meskanen,

These sound like abusive siutations to me.  In fact, the first and second
incidents happened to me when I was 9 and I now consider that to be sexual
abouse.

rape is sexual abuse too.

Thanks for sharing--hope you find healing.

Bron
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: asar.124@wpi.wpi.edu (lizard) 
Subject:  can I tell if I am being abused?
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:02:08 GMT


APS-name: lizard

Someone suggested that it might be a good idea to think of sexual
abuse as defined by whether it is perceived as abusive by one of the
parties involved.  Although the perception of abuse may make something
abuse, often adults and children are sexually abused and do not see it
as such.  When I was abused as a child, I absolutely did not see it as
unhealthy or abusive.  I was nonetheless being manipulated and
deceived by my perp.  Later when I was molested ("mildly") by a
teacher, I did not feel wronged, only confused.  Later, when nearly an
adult (and in my mind an adult), an attempted rape by force (which I
narrowly escaped through physical force) was perceived by me as
unfortunate for us both- the poor guy, so desperate and drunk, I
thought.  (I never reported it.)  It happens that I now think I was
abused in each case, but I could have gone on my not so merry way without
ever having thought of myself as having been wronged or harmed.

(And who knows if I am "prepared" now: could I be victimized again
without understanding what was really going on until I would find
myself forced to rationalize the result?)

In general, I worry about suggestions that people who are victimized
need to perceive their treatment as such in order for their claims to
be legitimate.  Sexual abuse often seems to play on our unpreparedness
for the crazy things that we find happening to ourselves (and
sometimes also on our unwillingness to accept what our bodies and minds
are reporting).  In my own case, never seeing what was happening until
I felt responsible in some way (as an accessory or flirt) has colored
my perceptions of abusive relationships, at least while they were going on.

Peace
-lizard




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From: csz55@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Christopher Wrigley)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: One more for Mary R.
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:35:26 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England


Subject: Re: One more for Mary R.

In article: (Paul patches things up!)

=> was there and let you hear it.  I am sure Chris will be thankful, as
=> am I, that our feelings as well as thoughs were validated.  That
=> being that WE have remnants of abuse that we LEARNED to like and that
=> I learned to surch out...and this was not a CHOICE it was a pre-
=> consious force!

 Many thanks Paul, actually after I saw the post by Kate, I sent her
an email immediately explaining that I was not singling her out, merely
philosophizing in my normal, droal way! She has since written back to
me, and all is well.
			Chris
__
Christopher  Wrigley          
University of Keele, England   
JANET - csz55@uk.ac.keele
BITNET - csz55%seq1.keele.ac.uk@ukacrl
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery