HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay???
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:28:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) spews:
) Mlle dyer, mlle hughes, & mlle twpierce:

[blatant misogyny deleted; catty enough to make even the
bitchiest queen sound good by comparison]

) I bet another masc. gay friend that none of the net queens on soc.motss
) would be able to offer coherent counterarguments.  He believed,
) however, that you would be able to contain yourselves and post something 
) of value.  

They did.  You are so convinced that you're right and everyone
else is wrong, so unwilling to yield an inch, so fucking
pig-headed, that you ignored them.  How very masculine of you.
Read Bob Lodenkamper's eloquent followup to you, or Bob
Donahue's, or Elf's, or any of a half-dozen others.

As for the flames, don't be so bloody disingenuous.  You've
been getting into flamefests on the internal Microsoft
newsgroups for long enough to be fully aware that your initial
articles were courting flames.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Keywords: drag, commedia dell'arte
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 21:23:04 GMT

dblakele@acpub.duke.edu (the m.dean) writes:
>I marched as a leatherman when I should have been there in my lab coat
>and stethoscope.  We have to show ourselves to the world as ourselves.
>Marching in drag, leather or G-strings doesn't help us out a bit.

No, no, you should be marching in your lab coat and stethoscope, with
nothing underneath except a leather G-string.

Arne:
>What are our real selves that we can show ourselves as ourselves?

Really. Most of my life, I've paid the rent doing computer science research 
as a grad student. What am I supposed to look like? Is it ok for me to
have funny hair? Earrings? Wear boots? But that's what I wear most of
the time at work.

Dean again:
>...Drag, in my opinion, is a means to cover up perceived deficiencies in
>one's own character by portrying a fantasy.  I want to emphasize 
>perceived here because with a little help there is probably a good
>person down there that has been taught to act the way he does by
>forces he can't understand at times.

I dunno, I've hung out with some pretty well-adjusted people who do drag.
Perceived deficiencies? Some of them are almost arrogant :-). And not only
are some of them good persons *down there* (ahem, and fun in bed too), but
good people in general. Some even have email access :-).

Dean, some time you need to go talk to Mona Foot in NY, or Vaginal Creme
Davis in LA, or Joan Jett Blakk in Chicago, or DeAundra Peek in Atlanta...

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:14:24 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


(me)
>Oh, horseshit, Al.  I am not a model for anyone.  

/(vanyel)
/You can say that again.

Oooooh!  Is this what they call high sarcasm?  
Can you do it again?  Please?


(vanyel)
/And *don't* call me "Al."

Little whiner.  After all the weird spellings my name has gone through
from this group (Sargol, Sargon, "Bob", "Boob", "Bobby-boy" (yours, below),
can't you come up with anything more substantial?


>(Allen Williams)

(vanyel)
/Learn to spell, Bobby-boy.  It's *Alan*.  Not "Allen," not "Allan."

Then change your name.  It's spelled wrong.



--
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: masculinity and femininity, round 4
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:07:06 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Aug12.174940.24656@cis.ohio-state.edu>, 
amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

Good stuff.

> [note the
> characteristically faggy jacking-up of the discussion by one level] -

Oooh, is that faggy?  I thought it was typically academic--but then, I 
guess in our culture for a man to be academic is effete and effeminate.

> [on expectations about
> what kinds of deviations there are: note the widespread resistance to
> the idea that there are straight men who enjoy sex with other men in
> general, or with gay men in particular.]

But straight vs. gay is another false dichotomy.

[I seem to have comments only on your square brackets.]
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Arsenio
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:28:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
) booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards):
) > It was definitely tacky and stupid. I was disappointed.
)
) i hope the model called to let him know what an asshole he is.

He's certainly an Arse Hall.

) personally, the man stands for buying into the
) American dream in my personal opinion.  he used to be
) brilliantly funny before he got his own show.  now, well,
) i can read the newspaper on my own.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: GRANDPA WALTON: Is he gay?  Help please....
From: dgwelton@ecst.csuchico.edu (David G. Welton)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:07:16 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico


In a speech a few days ago Bush said:
 
[He'd like] "to make American families a lot more like the Walton's
 and less like the Simpson's."
 
Well I seem to recall that the actor Will Geer, who played Grandpa
Zeb Walton, has come out and proclaimed he is gay. Is this fact
or urban legend?
 
I'm writing an article about the Convention and would love to
be able to add this little tidbit...if I can substantiate it.
 
Can you help?
 

-- 
David G. Welton                             dgwelton@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
Master's Candidate			    
Social Science				    California State University, Chico
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: Jay and Arsenio on gay issues
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.182958.19984@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.DLH@forsythe.stanford.edu (David Hatt - 5-0083) writes:
>Leno had on Sir Ian McKelland (sp?) who pointedly said about his
>knighting "I came out gay before the knighting so it was
>particularly rewarding."  Jay changed the subject quickly. 

Jay Leno has this credit to him... supposedly he has never
told a fag/dyke joke... I believe that he has stated that he
steers clear of controversial subjects for his humor.  I guess
now we know that since he tries to milk every drop of humor
out of his show that he stays clear of any controversial
issues.

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:54:35 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <#-7mta.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>Getting fucked can be a lot of fun, but do you think it would be masculine
>enough for him?  

Oh sure, its just they can't kiss, that would be like too GRODY for words,
and they like can't talk about it, and you can't admit that you enjoy it,
its, like, only because you're helping your good buddy out, who really
needs to get a nut.  And it has to be hard and brutal, and you can't every
say you're fucking their ass, it always has to be their "man pussy".
And you can't look each other in the eye while you do it, and ... well, you
get the picture.  

I was considering flaming the posting, but I figured that it was the most
pathetic thing I'd read in soc.motss in a long time.  A better example
of what sexism and homophobia do to us, I couldn't have come up with myself.
I pity those who are so tied up with roles, that they just can't be themselves,
that every action has to be fit into some rigid template of masculine and
feminine.

When I weep in grief and rage, am I being feminine?  When I am forceful
and demanding and rude, am I being masculine?  Do these words mean anything
but chains to forbid me behaviors?  To tie up my soul and limit me?
I love women who are strong.  I love men who cry.  I abhor those who
in pathetic need to win the tag of masculine or feminine, chain their
souls up and deny who they are.

How utterly sad.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: TheVoice, Mutual Admiration Societies, what have you (was Re: redefining masculinity)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Stanford University
	<l8upvdINNmek@mizar.usc.edu> <1992Aug17.092741.10071@wam.umd.edu>
	<tdober-170892191602@toberkamper.llnl.gov>
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:51:06

In article <tdober-170892191602@toberkamper.llnl.gov> tdober@llnl.gov
(TDO) writes: 

   As soc.motss is overcome with a deluge of pastoral imagery, a voice is
   heard in the distance...

   "The *HILLS* are aliiiiiiivvvee...with the sound of muuuuuusssic...."

Sound to me more like...

"The *HILLS* are aliiiiiiivvvee .... and they're getting clooooooser"

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Powell's Bookstore
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:30:02 GMT

emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:

>roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>>"Never eat anything bigger than your head."

>Another Miss Piggy fan!

Has anyone else seen that book of Muppet versions of classic artworks?
I had a copy of it when I was younger. The text was *fabulous*!

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coyote@sti.com (Ron Lussier)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: Re: The media, again (was: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?)
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:15:29 GMT
Organization: National Man-Smurf Love Association

In article <1992Aug14.180804.20133@nevada.edu> balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks) writes:
>Perhaps they spoke for themselves, or for their QN tribe.  Why must one
>queer speaking on queer issues speak for us all?

Speaking for myself, I find it really amusing how gay terminology has changed
over the few years that I have been a member of the community.

(Translation for QN:  Gay = Queer
		      Community = Tribe)
Peace,
Ron
-- 
Ron 'Coyote' Lussier            /|               Software Transformation
coyote@sti.com                 / |      1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
(408) 973-8081 x315           /__\                   Cupertino, CA 95014
From: thomas@mips.com (Chris Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: [Anonymous posting] Seattle (Siemens-Quantum) info?
Date: 17 Aug 1992 21:17:46 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: twink.mips.com

[This is an anonymous posting, made for someone who wishes to remain
anonymous because of their job situation, and *not* because they're
closeted.  If you want to reply to this article, please email me a
response, and I'll make sure it gets back to the person.  Thanks!]

I'm considering an offer from Siemens-Quantum in Seattle, and I'd
like to know...

    -  are there any motss readers at Siemens-Quantum?  If so,
how's the environment there?

    -  in the Seattle area, what sorts of groups might be of
interest to motss newcomers (e.g., High Tech Gays-type stuff,
lunch groups, etc.)

Thanks!

[An anonymous article, posted by:]
-- 
Chris Thomas                                                (408) 524-8067
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++                thomas@mips.com

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: absolutely trilling!
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 23:45:04 GMT

William Tsun-Yuk Hsu (hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu) relates:
 
> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
> 
> >You forgot: simple unison (masturbation), fifths (neither minor nor
> >major: the bi interval?), 
> 
> And fourths would be, ummm, the "uncommitted" interval...

Give me a tritone any day; something about
that devil's interval gives me trills in
all the right places.

Sonata bad idea to continuo this, even if
allegretto in the morning.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:25:06 GMT

I do need to take time out to read here a lot more often ... Everyone's  
comments have been so enlightening and I'm starting to take this bunch a little  
less seriously.

I would like to apologize to anyone who may have mistaken my last post as being  
anti-women.  

Steve, you can't stand my guts but I really could care less.

Anyway, I should have seen it coming.  I'm a lot younger than most of you and  
it's quite obvious that we may not have anything else in common but Cole Porter  
and having sex with other guys.  And the most horrible thing about it is that a  
lot of my older counterparts don't see fit to bridge the gap, or at least meet  
construction halfway.  It's really very frightening.

I am the future.  The future of men, the future of African-Americans, the  
future of homosexuality.  You have the choice between reaching out to me or  
ignoring me.  Either way, I'll survive ... you can believe that.

Arne, you wonder why I take you so seriously.  Why shouldn't I?  Should I just  
assume that you either don't mean what you say or that nothing you say amounts  
to much more than devil's advocate bitchery?  I give everyone the chance to put  
their foot in their mouths, but I don't assume that they will off the bat.

Arne, all I can say is that I hope you are not as miserable as you seem to be.   
No one deserves that much misery -- then again I have no idea what you've done  
in your life.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:58:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.022506.22041@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod) writes:
>I would like to apologize to anyone who may have mistaken my last post as
>being anti-women.  

Thanks.

>Steve, you can't stand my guts but I really could care less.

Whatever gave you that idea?

>I am the future.  The future of men, the future of African-Americans, the  
>future of homosexuality.  You have the choice between reaching out to me or  
>ignoring me.  Either way, I'll survive ... you can believe that.

God, you sound like the adopted son of Helen Reddy and Gloria Gaynor.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: s883334@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (James Alan Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OR:9 Supporter Sighting
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:02:59 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:

>Greetings -

>As I arrived at the bus stop this morning, I saw my first "Yes on 9." :-(
>A middle-aged man across the street had painted this in large letters on
>the back of his short-sleeve oxford-cloth shirt (it wasn't even tucked in
>and he had terrible posture - these bigots have no sense of *style* ;-> ). 

 Being stuck in Australia (for good or worse :-) I guess I'm missing out
of a lot of meaning behind this. Care to explain please ?

 James.
-- 
  -  James Alan Hall                     s883334@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au 
  -  Mithrandir                          mith@arda.pub.uu.oz.au

Thence to Briton shall return,		If right prophetic rolls I learn,
Borne on victory's spreading plume,	His ancient sceptre to resume,
His knightly table to restore,		And brave the tournaments of yore.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:17:11 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



/(fjvwing)
/I think there are some assumptions that Bob is making that havn't
/explicitely spelled out.

No.  They have been spelled out many times.



/(fjvwing)
/Bob, do you believe that what you call 'flamboyant gays' are flamboyant
/because they want to deliberately upset straight society? 

Sometimes.  The shock value can be fun in and of itself.  

Sometimes people do it because it's fun.  

Sometimes it's escapism.



/(fjvwing)
/If not totally, do you think that that is a major big component in their
/motivation to be flamboyant?

I don't understand this question:  what do you mean by "major big component 
in their motivation to be flamboyant"?



(fjvwing)
/Do you believe that if you get freaked out by me wearing one red and
/one green sock, you being upset is my responsability?


It depends.  If your goal is to impress me, or convince me that you wear
socks just like I do, or that your sock-wearing habits are no different
than mine, you will fail.





Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:06:57 GMT

rcw@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Robert White) writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.170035.19867@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>
>This perception was reinforced by Pat Buchanan's comment that we need to
>take the country back.

>Back from whom?
Clinton already answered this question. The answer is "Them. Them the Blacks.
Them the Jews. Them the Gays."

Then he continued.."There is no them. There is only Us."
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
C.E. Koop:"What would you do if you knew the identity of every HIV+ in the USA?"
Rep. William Dannemeyer (R-CA): "Wipe them off the face of the Earth!"
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: More PSU bashing (was Re: He calls this an introduction?!
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:51:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Aug20.005120.18936
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

In article <92232.191642QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>, Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> I agree that this site [PSU] has its
> share of twits

Not only does it have its share of twits, it has several
other universities shares, as well.  It doesn't seem quite
fair to me that Penn State is hogging all the twits, but
still, better there than here.


> SO - ENOUGH PSU BASHING!

Never!  We love PSU bashing!  And we're really, really excited
that summer is over and that Cappie Picard will be returning
from his summer doldrums.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gerber@solbourne.com (Andrew Gerber)
Subject: need good bible arguments AGAINST the anti-gay passages
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:24:36 GMT


A flame war is starting on local regional newsgroups; I was wondering
if anyone had good arguments against the typically used anti-gay
passages in the Bible online which they could send me.  [Like how the
translation from the latin depends on the conservatism of the
theologean, etc]

Also info from Boswll on the RCC sanctifying gay marrages in the 1600s
and before..

Thanks for any info..

Andy
gerber@solbourne.com
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------/
/ Andy Gerber		     / gerber@solbourne.com               /
/-----------------------------------------------------------------/
From: tachyon@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: a queer card from the state of ohio
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:03:00 GMT
Organization: Tachyon Labs
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug21.004238.4450@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>while we're on the subject, just what would a true Queer Card [there!
>you see!  i admit i've never even laid eyes on one!] confer upon or
>require from its bearer?  not the right to affection, love, and sex
>with others of the same sex, should you want these - such rights we
>claim for everyone in the world.  what sets apart those people we
>would like to accord the positive and approving label "Queer" (or
>"Gay" or whatever) to?

For what it's worth, the Dallas Gay and Lesbian Alliance membership
card says "Please honor <person's name>".  I thought that was kind of
nice.  :-)
 
And when I show people my DGLA credit card they tend to confer upon me
and friends fine meals, good books, fancy outfits, that kind of thing.
Unfortunately it doesn't say "Dallas Gay and Lesbian In Your Face
Credit Union" on it as once promised, but it does have the DGLA name
and triangle.  But for some reason it seems like every time I show it
to people and they give me things, about a month later some bank sends
me a bill to pay ... hmmm ...

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|tachyon@deeptht.armory.com  \        /__    One of the Bivariant Illuminati |
|      tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu  \    /   /  I only like sigs on *other* people|
|         tachyon@gorn.echo.com  \/   /  I should go log off and get to work!|
 ----------------------------------\/----------------------------------------
From: harris@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: net queen??
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:35:23 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Hey, can I be Motss Cub Reporter?  Huh, can I, can I?

I always used to wish I was Jimmy Olsen.  Hey, he always got Superman's
attention...;-)

Trey Harris
Stranger in a Strange Thread
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: They Shoot Puppies Don't They?
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:30:28 GMT
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------- Blind-Carbon-Copy

To: gaynet@athena.mit.edu
cc: qn@queernet.org, act-up@world.std.com
Subject: They Shoot Puppies Don't They?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 00:30:28 -0400
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr>


NYT today:

_AIDS Speech Brings Hush to Crowd_, p. A21

"Many of the delegates at the first seemd not to be listening.  They
could be seen chatting and wandering about the floor.  But as she went
on, the room gradually feel to attention.  By the middle of her speech
almost everyone was staring up at the podium, quiet and with grave
expressions.

"There were exceptions.  A television camera caught Vice President Dan
Quayle, standing in his box in the rear of the hall, glad-handing a
beaming Arnold Schwarzenegger."


- ---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. "D.C. in '93!"
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"I don't think 'so called' dirty books inspired anyone to commit any crime
more serious than masturbation" -- William Burroughs, author of _Naked Lunch_

------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy