From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:44:59 GMT

cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>
>>So what's the problem?  Take out every other factor that could be
>>duplicated in the American private system (hard, 'cos there are
>>things that they do here that we don't do up north, like cut off
>>and weasel on payments) and ... where's the government?
>
>the government decides how much doctors are allowed to be paid
>for the ten years they spend learning their trade (which is why
>they are leaving as fast as they can get their green cards).

Myth.  Students pay for their own medical school, and take out loans.
They are paid almost zero as clinical clerks, and competive pittances
as interns and residents.  The doctors that are leaving are set to
retire in warm climate, administrators also heading to warm climates,
and people who are highly specialized and need to work someplace
bigger.  (I have doctors close to my family; I also came close to
marrying an intern/resident once, so I've seen the inside.  Careful!)
If so many Canadian doctors were coming down in their prime, there
would be a huge issue in the press and the American medical lobby
would have headed them off at the border via the INS.

>the government decides what the "insurance" will pay for and what
>it will not.

Compared to what American insurance covers, it is universal.  And
there is no medical insurance that covers cosmetic surgery.  My
girlfriend gets what is arguably the best private insurance from her
father, a research exec with a Euro-American pharmaceuticals and that
is the only plan that I've seen in America (but I don't know the
Astors nor Donald Trump) that comes close to what I had with OHIP.

>the government decides that doctors are not allowed to charge
>extra to those who can afford it for extra services.

Have you ever read the papers to see how the insurance schedule is
set?  The doctors ask for a rate, the government insurance hums and
haws, and eventually the doctors get the ballpark figure that they
intended to get in the first place.  No wonder the AMA has turned
around and said that universal coverage isn't so bad after all ...

And, why should someone, even the rich, pay more for what they can get
at standard insurance price?  Besides, you have to have money to get
at the better amenities like a semi/private room, ambulatory transport
coverage, eyeglasses, dental, etc.  I assume that since you have
worked, you are aware of that (or, could not afford it ...).

>the government decides how many hospital beds are appropriate
>for another area.

Come again?  Our public and not-for-profit private (e.g., Mount Sinai,
Davis Jewish General in Montreal) hospital are autonomous.  If public
or private auditors find that their capacity is being underutilized,
they suggest closure.  Since administrators are being clamped down
upon, no longer lowballing their budgets and expecting their deficits
to be covered.  Makes sense as it keeps my insurance rates down ...

>the government also spends millions of dollars sending patients
>to US-border hospitals because there is no room for them in
>canada.

Where?  Where?  This contradicts what you just said ... As I pointed
above (based on the Globe & Mail, UPI, my own sources), our hospitals
are overbuilt right now.  In western Ontario, the people who do cross
the border are those living closer to Michigan and Erie County, where
it's further away from Toronto.  Those facilities have contracts to
accept OHIP insurance money.  Why not, it's just insurance ... Who
says it has to be spent in Ontario?  Otherwise, you'd have ...

>centrally planned health care.

Nobody tells you how to spend your benefits.  There is no national
health service.  You are responsible for choosing a doctor and to
follow or reject his/her care and any referrals.  Where's the central
planning?  How long have you been out of the country?  I've been gone
for a while (but keep in touch and visit regularly) and cannot see any
of what you claim, let alone pander to the conservative/libertarian
wing.  I can respect your opinions, but not to the point of twisting
things around or (e.g.) to rationalize your newfound libertarianism.
Certainly people reading this can find their own sources and make up
their own minds with their own eyes by visiting Canada (by the way,
with all that expanded business travel due to free trade, the anti-
Canada propoganda has started to break down as Wall Streeters are
suddenly realizing that President Bush was hosing them a year ago).

Find a normal Canadian (-; ... describe to them British NHS socialized
medicine (where doctors are civil servants), American HMO's and then
American pure insurance like what my girlfriend gets from her dad's
drug multinational ... guess which one the Canadian will pick as being
like their own.  (I'll assume you won't say it ... it's C.)

gld

PS: By the way, I respect libertarianism as a school of criticism.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
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