From: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dustin R. Christmann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Paid Microsoft employees
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:00:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Jul21.233140.5660@microsoft.com> gordonl@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:

>Here are some quotes of IBM employees disparaging Microsoft and microsoft
>products:

[Whining about big, mean IBMers deleted...]

>This posting contains a series of disparagements and snide remarks.
>He ridicules NT shipping dates, and ridicules Windows programs.  He
>accuses MS of flipflopping.

Are you even TRYING to say that MS has NEVER flipflopped?  Come on, Gordo, give
us here on Usenet some credit.

>    Path: microsoft!uunet!uunet!usc!rpi!clarkson!clarkson
>    From: drxmann@ausvmr.VNET.IBM.COM (Dustin Christmann)

YES!  I've gotten the attention of the Great Omnipotent and Omniscient Gordo!
BTW, I was a co-op at IBM at that point and I'm back at UT now, so you have
the different address.

>    Subject: Gordon Letwin's Raving
>    
>    In <1992Mar20.112800.9435@wsl.ie> John J. Allen writes:
>    >What's Gordon's problem, why does'nt he just go back to the MessySoft
>    >groups.
>    
>    Well, it's nice to hear the other side of the story.  Unfortunately, more of-
>    ten than not, it's unmitigated bull.
>    
>    Thanx,
>    Dustin Christmann
>
>this IBM employee accuses me of "raving", and then asserts that
     ^ ----former	
>my postings are often "unmitigated bull".    Perhaps the readership
>will repost any of my postings in which I directly and personally
>slandered IBM employees.

Actually, I never accused you of ranting.  It would have been redundant.  I
only accused you of posting unmitigated bull, which I stand by, though I gua-
rantee you if I had written the same post nowadays, I would have used slightly
stronger language, because I don't work for IBM now.

If UT didn't get rid of old posts after a week or so, I would dredge up some of
your posts stating that OS/2 was yet another IBM ploy to dominate the market,
accusing IBM of shady business practices, some of which Microsoft has engaged
in, and so on.  I responded to that in a very civil manner, primarily because

a) your ranting was still new to me, and therefore interesting.
b) restraint is a good thing, especially if you have ibm.com (or microsoft.com,
or dec.com or anything.com) at the end or your e-mail address.  At the other
end of the spectrum, ranting doesn't represent your company very well.  Remem-
ber, there are many potential customers on the net.

One more thing. I may slam you, for above stated reasons, and Microsoft in ge-
neral, because they have rubbed me the wrong way, but I have no quarrel with
any other Microsoft employee on the net.  In fact, I think that some of them
are pretty cool dudes.

>My file of such stuff goes on and on, but this is enough.
>
>To make things perfectly clear, I don't give a hoot about such "ravings"
>and "unmittigated bull", myself.  However, two different IBM lawyers sent
>me threatening letters trying to force me off of the net.  This was in
>response to my posting about the amount of assembly language in the product.

You're not telling us something here.  Was the pressure from the IBM legal
eagles due to your less-than-civil but generally harmless posts, or was it
due in some way to your disclosure about internal OS/2 stuff, which, although
I have no knowledge of such matters, might have been a violation of the JDA.

As I recall, the discourse that followed said disclosure, was fairly civil and
elicited few responses from IBM folks on the net.

>Note that the civilized way, if you're unhappy with someone's posts, is
>to complain to them and ask them to moderate their behavior.  You then
>fall back on the legal threats if and only if:
>
>	1) your complaint is valid and your threats are real, and
>	2) you've exhausted less drastic means

Gordo, you're a fine one to talk about civilized ways to do anything on Usenet.
Besides, most people would have gotten the message from all the responses that
you got on numerous occasion from people that are in no way connected with IBM.

>IBM went directly to the serious legal threats, written to folks who
>they assumed were my bosses, hoping to get me fired.  More, they had
>no basis for the complaints; their arguments were unmitigated bullshit.

What were they?  I sincerely doubt that IBM really is that thin-skinned about
your personal attacks.  Maybe about people disclosing sensitive information.

>
>So I sent them a little reply about IBM's postings on the net.  The

Wait a minute, Gordo.  Most, if not all, of the posts from IBM employees inclu-
de disclaimers that opinions expressed did not necessarily represent those of
IBM Corporation blah blah blah.  I know mine did.  Those personal attacks were
not from IBM, but from IBM employees.

>above examples are excerpted from page after page of stuff that I sent back.

Did you also send them copies of your posts that inspired such responses.  Pro-
bably not, but then I can't blame you.

>I said that I had been laughing off the personal attacks by IBM, but
>since IBM was talking major damage suits as an appropriate response to
>postings then it seemed like a good idea to me...

Frankly, I don't think that they gave a rat's ass about your rantings about
them, but rather your disclosure of potentially sensitive information about
OS/2.

>I never heard back from the IBM lawyer, but I have noticed a quieting

You tricky devil, you.

>of IBM postings.  Perhaps there's a correlation.

Well, some of us have simply left IBM on good terms.

Gordo, please pardon me if I'm a little lacking in sympathy.  You periodically
rant about big, mean IBM, you post potentially sensitive info, and so on.  Thenwhen IBM sends you a nastygram, you cry bloody murder.  You haven't been com-
pletely blameless, and don't try to convince me that you are.

Even if IBM is taking exception to your ranting and not something greater, it
is because they feel that what you're saying is potentially libelous and is
costing them business.

Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with IBM except for a few spots on my re-
-- 
Thanx,			|   Team OS/2	| Internet: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Dustin R. Christmann	| (I was there) | Bitnet: DRXMANN@UTXVM
  Editor-in-chief of the ARAPOUT: All the news that is fit to print...NOT!
	Alpha Rho Chapter - Alpha Phi Omega - The University of Texas
"My grandmother started walking five miles a day when she was 60.  She's 93 to-
day -- and we don't know where the hell she is."	-- Ellen DeGeneres
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