HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ozakaria@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Oki Zakaria)
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Organization: Northeastern University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:11:11 GMT

In article <Bz9xMA.BHr@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:
> 
> Sebentar, kalau masalahnya hanya menterjemahkan bahasa C/Pascal/Fortran
> ke bahasa Indonesia, saya kurang berminat. 
> Tapi kalau maksudnya membuat bahasa baru (dengan konsep baru) yang bukan
> terjemahan, saya berminat kalau bahasa itu memang cocok.

Saya kira, konsep yang dimiliki Pascal & C, yaitu memecah masalah
menjadi bagian-bagian kecil yang kemudian 'diletakkan' didalam fungsi
/prosedur yang bisa tertangani, masih merupakan konsep yang masih bisa
diandalkan. Memang, sekarang orang sudah bergerak ke bahasa berorientasi
obyek, tapi, belajar berjalan sebelum berlari kan merupakan hal
yang lazim. Karena itu, bahasa yang 'serupa' dengan Pascal maupun C, 
masih cukup patut untuk dikembangkan.

> Mungkin perakit yang mengerti bahasa Indonesia yang sedikit manusiawi.
> Misalnya :
> 
[...]

Ide anda akan saya dukung, tapi tak lebih dari sumbang saran. 

Bahasa pemrograman dalam bahasa Indonesia dengan konsep apapun, MHS 
(menurut hemat saya), baik untuk dikembangkan. Di negeri maju,
perusahaan pembuat perakit sudah menjadi pemandangan sehari-hari,
sehingga timbul kesan bahwa untuk memprogram komputer itu harus meng-
gunakan bahasa Inggris. Padahal, yang namanya komputer itu selalu
bisa diprogram, dan tak akan mengeluh walau diprogram dalam bahasa
apa saja.

Membuat komputer agar bisa menerima program yang seperti bahasa sehari-
hari cukup menarik juga. Seandainya perakit yang hendak saya
buat itu memang benar-benar bisa terwujud, saya akan mencari 'proyek'
yang lain. Dan nanti kalau ada spesifikasi bahasa baru dalam bahasa Indonesia,
tentunya bisa dipertimbangkan untuk dikembangkan perakitnya.

> 
> -- budi

Oki
okidz@ccs.northeastern.edu

Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: prastowo@qucis.queensu.ca (Bambang Nurcahyo Prastowo)
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:24:32 GMT

In article <Bz9xMA.BHr@ccu.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:
>$x=10;
>KERJAKAN 10 KALI {
>   $x = 2 * $x;
>   $y = AKAR($x);
>   TULISKAN  $x DI LAYAR DENGAN FORMAT "xxx.xx";
>   TULISKAN  $y DI BERKAS "HASIL" DENGAN FORMAT "xxxxxx.Exxx";
>   }
!
Eh... ini kan gabungan COBOL-PERL :-), boleh juga.

Salam, Bambang Prastowo
From: purwinto@mailbox.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: INA: Flores relief aid needed [Updated announcement F2/18/92] 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 18:17:28 -0500


Dear folks, 

Regarding a huge disaster caused by 6.8 RS earthquake and experienced 
by thousands people at Flores and the surrounding islands, I ask you for 
giving some release by sending your donation to the victims. To present 
your humanitarian aid in cash, for those who reside in the U.S. please 
send your personal cheque or cashier cheque, and for those who reside
outside the U.S. please send your international money order to:

  Wahyu Purwinto
  A7-1 Slocum Heights
  Syracuse, NY. 13210. U.S.A.
  Ph# 315.449.3538

Or, you could transfer your donation via wire transfer

  TO            : CHASE Lincoln First Bank
	          Rochester, New York.

  FOR CREDIT TO : CHASE Lincoln First Bank
  	          Syracuse, New York.

  ABA           : 022300173

  NAME          : Wahyu Purwinto

  ACCOUNT NUMBER: 600 738 4644

I will send all your donation to the National Committee of the Flores
Relief Aid (Panitia National Bencana Gempa Bumi di Flores NTT) located
in Borobudur Hotel, Jakarta, and chaired by Frans Seda and Maladewa.  
The faster you send the relief aid, the better their chances to release. 
Hope you could join this relief aid action to release those who need. 
Thank you in advance for your solidarity. God bless you.

Notes: Reported that The Indonesian communities at Syracuse - New York, 
       and Ann Arbor - Michigan, and the Indonesian Development Studies 
       Networkers (PBDLIST members) will preferably send their donation 
       via my address or account. Then I will wire the donation to the 
       National Committee's Bank Dagang Negara's (BDN) account via the 
       BDN branch in New York City. I will regularly notify any progress 
       of the donation to you.

Best regards,
-wien (PBDLIST Admin) 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
* Wahyu Purwinto                  | BitNet  : purwinto@SUVM             * 
* A7-1 Slocum Heights             |         : purwinto@SUNRISE          *
* Syracuse, New York 12310. U.S.A.| Internet: purwinto@mailbox.syr.edu  *
* Voice/Data/Fax: 315.449.3538    |           purwinto@sunrise.syr.edu  * 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: kentan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kenneth Victor Taurany)
Subject: earthquake in flores
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 07:36:54 GMT



there had been an earthquake in Flores on saturday.  from the newspaper, at least 1100 people died.  the quake damaged hundreds of buildings, and it created tsunami which wiped out many seaside villages.  according to the indonesian official, the quake was at 6.8, but the u.s. geological survey said the quake was at 7.5 in Richter scale, which means that it was stronger than the one that hit LA earlier this year or the SF quake in 1989.  i do not know anything else on the news.  if others have more news, i


t will be good to keep others up to date on the news

kenneth
From: regius@cs.utexas.edu (Regius S. Gunawan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Date: 12 Dec 1992 08:12:37 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelady.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec12.065117.24571@cs.cornell.edu> donsw@cs.cornell.edu (Donald Wihardja) writes:
>I think C is a good programming language, as I think it is easier than
>Pascal, ....
I love C personally, but know a lot of people who hate it.
(and here we go to another discussion on which languages we like :)

<stuff on having 'real' language instead of just 'classroom' one deleted>
Mind you that Pascal was invented as a classroom language
(hence the strictness of it's compiler on what you can do
and how :)  IMHO, if it's not because of Borland's own
additions to TurboPascal, it's going to be a pain trying
to make commercial programs out of it.  Even on the Mac,
a machine designed to be programmed mostly in Pascal, the
compiler has its own extension which everyone relies on.
Modula-2, Modula-3 and Oberon on the other hand ....

>Now, if you want to learn about programming language design etc. I think
>you should start with C or Pascal, and then move to Scheme/LISP.
Could you elaborate on why move from imperative language to
LISP.  I'm curious about your mentioning LISP, not just any
functional language.  (hey, LISP is not functional!  :)
I'd prefer going from C++ to Miranda or ML.  (I like C,
I think object oriented stuff is cool, I like Miranda and
ML's syntaxes, and if memory serves, there are reasonably
good compilers :)

>Donald.

I really think we should have another thread going about current
teaching methodology in Indonesia (esp in CS :), and how to improve
it.
From: regius@cs.utexas.edu (Regius S. Gunawan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:46:39 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.cs.utexas.edu

In article <Bz43I3.4Gq@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> prastowo@qucis.queensu.ca (Bambang Nurcahyo Prastowo) writes:
>Teman saya bercerita bahwa di beberapa institusi di Indonesia,
>diajarkan BASIC I, BASIC II, BASIC III, FORTRAN I, FORTRAN II
>dan seterusnya. Ruparupanya membuat program dalam BASIC atau
>FORTRAN itu dianggap sebagai ilmu tersendiri.
>
>Bambang Prastowo

Mungkin ini yang dimaksud dengan 'jurusan D'.  Jadi yang
diajarkan bukan disiplin membuat program (software engineering),
tapi hanya 'syntax' dari beberapa bahasa.  Murid dipersilakan
menjadi 'hacker' ^_^.
(maksud 'hacker' di sini: orang-orang yang membuat program
dengan: duduk di depan komputer, ketik sesuatu [tanpa memahami
betul apa yang diketik :], 'compile' [dengan harapan tidak ada
'syntax error' :], lalu berdoa agar programnya tidak 'crash' :)
Rasanya ini sudah masuk topik baru ^_^
^_^ regius ^_^
From: donsw@cs.cornell.edu (Donald Wihardja)
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:02:41 GMT


>1. build a preprocessor on top of widely used languages (C, etc)............
>   (But.. it's very hard to debug programs though!!) :)
>   Again...we can't support it w/ develpment tools!!>

You are right. But if they like it, we'll make a real Indo-C compiler.
How? easy.... 

>2. ....
>   something during winter break to hack gcc's grammar.y ... Gcc source files
>   are available eveywhere... Use archie to find it.. Find one based on DOS
>   platform... After beta-tested.. send it to Indonesia..... If they like it,
>   ask permission from FSF to distribute it in Indonesia..

Well, it is easy if gnu people are nice. I am under the impression that gcc
is freeware. And they wouldn't mind modifications to broaden its acceptability.
I think.

>3. ....(developing first language)

Good luck on this one. I don't have the skill or the will power to even 
think about doing this.  (Implementing a language is easy(er), making up
the language is hard.)

>just my Rp.0,00001 opinion..
>-- T2

Hmm.... isnt it Rp. 41,- now? :>

Donald
-- 
CS Department, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York.
From: regius@cs.utexas.edu (Regius S. Gunawan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Perakit BI
Date: 13 Dec 1992 15:08:57 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelady.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: SAYUR ASEM, SATE, RENDANG, IKAN ASIN...

In article <1gf0ueINN9r6@agate.berkeley.edu> tandean@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tandean Tekno) writes:
> Is it easy to debug using this kind of preprocessor???
> My partner once written this kind of thing to translate PASCAL into C...
> It works, but very hard to debug.. if you want to debug, you have to know
> those two languages. Am I wrong here??
I presume it's debugging programs written to be preprocessed
and then compiled.  Debugging the preprocessor itself is
another matter. ^_^
If memory serves, it's bloody hard to debug stuff without
proper development environtment.  Especially if you're too
used to debuggers that let you trace your source code.
Debugging without this is still possible, but you just need
to put lots of stubs and constantly recompile your code.

>Hm... I think two major points may emerge here. Who are the target we are
>supposedly want to bring this Indonesian Computing environment to.... ?
>General USERS or students/programmers??
I thought this thread is on helping new students learn programming
concepts.

>I have in mind to create somekind of FSF for Indonesia.....  It'll be
>neat since most people will have access to new technique/theory we
>have learned here..
Very good idea.  Of course some of us in the foundation have to learn
more on designing human interface.  Too bad we cannot just swipe Apple's
human interface guidelines; it's written for Americans ^_^
(not to mention legal stuff :)

>Second Point. ....ummm time to go back to study... final week.... still not
>ready yet... Continue soon...
One more final to go, and then I'm going home.
Which brings up another personal point.
I'm going home on the 14th.  Could some kind soul out there
point me to the right place for the archive of this thread?
(or even save it for me :)
I want to see it when I come back on Jan 18th.

>Just my Rp 0,000000000000001,- opinion
>            comma in indo means dot, right??
You don't include the ",-" if you're already talking about
cents ^_^ (my Rp. 0,000000000000000000000001 :)


>-T2
^_^ regius ^_^
ps. Happy holidays!
From: prem@prem.lbl.gov (xyz)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Where is my article?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 02:14:27 GMT
Organization: Human Genome Center at LBL
Distribution: world
Reply-To: prem@prem.lbl.gov (xyz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: prem.lbl.gov

In article <banger.7.724015276@dorm.rutgers.edu>,
banger@dorm.rutgers.edu (Tony Banger) writes:
|> Yesterday (12/9/92), I posted an article entitled "The problem with India (
|> Mosque incident)."  I have read the single reply to it, but where is the 
|> original article?  What if others wanted to read it?  There are articles 
|> posted that are weeks old.  Mine was not even a day old and already it is 
|> gone.  Who removed it and why did they?  Is this what I think it is?  That 
|> is, do the people who run this news group edit articles that they don't 
|> like (namely anti-Indian government)?

	I take it that you are at least one of the following :

    1. Not very familiar with how Usenet works.
    2. Extremely paranoid.
    3. Both of the above.

    If category 1 applies to you,
	Nobody on the net can "edit" your article into oblivion.
	You only see an article once, unless you happen to save
	it or mark it as unread. This is not another conspiracy
	by the folks on the net to suppress gems of wisdom such
	as yours. It is just that people usually do not wish to
	read the same thing over and over again.....

    If category 2 applies to you,
	I don't think I am qualified to offer professional advice
	on mental illnesses.

    If category 3 applies to you,
	You are a mis-informed, mentally unstable tyro. Why should
	anyone listen to you.

	I didn't see your first article, since I hadn't been on this
	newsgroup for a while, and it must have expired. But if it
	also displayed the high-standard of balanced thinking that
	your subsequent "Mommy, they took away my article" whine,
	I don't think I really missed anything.

    Have a nice day. They aren't all out to get you. You aren't all
    that important.

	Prem!
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: So why not just say "hi?"
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:36:46 GMT

>bhattach@tazboy.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:
>
>
>>I was just walking back from lunch and passed yet another II/IA who avoided eye contact
>>and didn't say "hi."  Is it my imagination, or do some Indian people develop an intense
>>interest in the nearest sidewalk/wall when another Indian passes?
>
>>I mean, I do take showers regularly.  Why do these people intentionally avoid acknowledging
>>me?  Any of you out there have similar experiences?
>
>>Bidushi
>

Well, this has been a interesting thread. Not sure  I can agree completely
with any of the interesting analyses presented, at least one of which
was also counter-intuitive to me, however I have a comment about the 
'taking showers regularly' remark. 

I once read about the first African-Americans who went to Montana. The 
little white kids would go up to them, rub their faces, and then look 
at their hands, hoping to find grime/soot etc. I thought this was something 
kids could possibly forgiven for, until I spoke to a Palo Alto yuppie 
in her mid-to-late twenties. She first thought I was Burmese, and then 
looking at me closely, said "No, their skins are _cleaner_."

BTW, has anyone attended and been offended by the Mummers' Parade on 
New Years' Day in Philadelphia, where (white) fraternity guys imitate 
black minstrel shows in blackface ?

Satyen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Re: how to prevent Ayodhya like fiascos
	    <1992Dec11.223847.25799@eng.ufl.edu>
Organization: -
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:15:06 GMT

Ravi Kiran <ballams@pine.circa.ufl.edu> writes:

   >Lining up and shooting any body is not going
   >to solve problems of this nature.  IMHO, it seems
   >like religion is the root cause of all this.  I guess 
   >destroying all the religions of the world will atleast
   >prevent problems of this sort to happen in future. 
   >Religion as it is used now does more harm than good.
   
There are many people in this world who use their belief in god to 
improve their life. (Hope, motivation, concentration etc.)
   
   >So it should be the case that the intellectuals should
   >find a way to remedy this world of religion.  The concept 
   >of God is no longer a helpful one, it seems and just like a 
   >rotten limb is amputated,  the concept of religion 
   >should be completely removed.  Then nations will 
   >not be segregated because of religion, people will
   >not use religion for discrimination, people will not
   >fight bloody wars in the name of religion and who 
   >knows they may even stop fighting over other things 
   >too.  
   >
   >YES, just like untouchability was made against law
   >in India, so should religion be made against law in 
   >the world.  
   >
   >Comments welcome, 
   >
   >Ravi Kiran.
   
IMHO, religion/atheism is not the problem. It is the lack of tolerance 
for other people and beliefs (race, language, religion etc.) which is 
the cause of so many conflicts around the world, including BM/RJB.

If only we could learn to walk around without stepping
on each others toes ...

Regards,
Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu ()
Subject: Re: Diatribes of.............
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:54:47 GMT

===========================================
 dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>  My knowing or not knowing does in no way make my assertions wrong. 
>  I remember you quoting NYT, Dec 11th issue - article by Gargan. 
>----x-----------
>  There *is* a distinct bias here. I am not making up facts. I did not quote
>  from "unaccessible" sources. The reference was made to NYT....
>--------x-------

 I agree that your knowing or not knowing does in no way make your/
 Gragan's (NYT)/anyone's opinion wrong. But, sir, neither are they 
 necessarily correct. We net.humans are simply trying to understand and
 learn from you, lest you get too abusive to be put into kill file.

 I doubt your words because, regretfully, you tend to assert claims from
 i-don't-know-where. For example:

>   I am sorry. I emphasize that you *are* an Islamic apologist probably a
>   pro-secessionist - member of the IPSG (Indian Progressive Study Group).
>   IPSG openly advocates (I was shocked to see this in their meetings at
>   McGill U., Montreal, Canada), that GOI *must* give up Kashmir to Pakistan.
>   You may agree/rationalize with this, but, I cannot.

 This is first time I am hearing of IPSG, FYI. 
 India - or any country, dear sir, doesn't mean anything to me. 
 Islam/Hinduism/Christianity/.... what-have-you are none of my concern.
 Why should "I"/anyone apologize for religions/groups/others?
 So, sir, why do you jump into conclusions? Is it possible,
 please ask yourself, that you do this jump-to-conclusions-thing to other
 thought levels also. 

 Take another example:
>   I find questions bizarre because you seem to comment on topics on 
>   which you have neither read, nor, have any personal experience. They
>   (your questions) are hollow.

 Well, once again, how can you claim that I haven't read, nor have I any
 personal experience? I, like you, have lived for some time in 
 Kanpur/Lucknow/.. etc. cities - years ago. The multinational company 
 I used to work for, shipped me all over the place. I worked/mingled with 
 humans belonging to different faiths.

 It is possible that your experience is far more intense. Well, in that case,
 thanks for sharing your thoughts.

>        - stay alive,
>          deb chatterjee
>        (a good samaritan)

 I hope so. 

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: if anyone out there sees this ....
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: UMass-Lowell Comp. Sci. Dept.
Distribution: alt
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:28:23 GMT



hi folks !

  thanks to all those that sent me mail in regard to my "if any out here ..."
I was using another NNTP server and wanted to make sure it got thru ... i
could have just read it myself but i have put bugs into my GNUS reader ....
anyone out there have a can of Raid that'll work on Emacs-Lisp bugs???


cheerio

BTW you can all stop sending in the mail. :)

--
===============================================================================
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi        |  UMass-Lowell Dept. of Computer Science
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu      |  SnailNet: 754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: ...!harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |            Lowell, MA 01850-1804
BITNET: msanghvi%cs.ulowell.edu@{cunyvm.cuny, mitvma.mit, talcott.harvard}.edu

186,282 miles per second:

It isn't just a good idea, it's the law!
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: 'Of Temples' - poem by Shamik Sharma
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:05:04 GMT




I found this beautiful poem on sci. Please send all comments/appreciation to 
Shamik at shamik@cs.umd.edu.






~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Of Temples 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>You know how you get
>these sudden urges -
>to sneak up on your 
>kid brother and smack
>him -
>And then run away 
>before he gets
>his hit back. 
>
>I hit him on the temple
>that time - 
>I don't know why he
>took it so personally -
>he wasn't using it or anything..
>
>And he chased me all over the place,
>and when I offered to let
>him punch my arm, he said
>no - he had to smack me
>on my temple too..
>
>And so we ran all over the place,
>upsetting the flower pots,
>and trodding on the puppy;
>we stopped when I ran into
>a shut door and hurt my 
>forehead real bad.
>
>My mother scolded both,
>though I still feel,
>t'was his fault for not
>accepting my offer ...
>But he was always so stubborn.
>Kid brothers always are, 
>aren't they ?
>
>-shamik
>
>



Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian