From: waltoml@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?  (BSA in CH)
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:34:28 CST
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I got word this morning that our NEWS read did not post items to
anything over the Christmas holidays....until the 10th actually.  I
did not save any of my postings except for the last one, and I am
reposting it here. Sorry if you have already received it...but wanted
to make sure that the posting hit this time around!



 In article <1ij11iINN3bo@hp-col.col.hp.com>, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:>>
 macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:
>> 
>> In our last council meeting, we decided to encourage co-ed events
>> between scout and cub scout units.
>> 
>> What is your personal opinion on that issue?
 
  (Dan's great response is deleted for space)
 
>> And alternatively, should packs (or dens with older cubs) have a 
>> campout on their own (as opposed to co-ed campouts with scouts)?
 
>> The only camping activities aproved for Cubs are backyard camping,
>> family camping, Council sponsored camps (i.e. day camp, resident camp)
>> and Webelos camping.  See the "Cub Scout Leader Book", pg 88
>> 
>> "Overnight camping is not authorized for younger Cub Scouts except as
>> part of family camping, and is not covered by the general liability
>> insurance program of the BSA"
>> 
>> and on pg 89 under the Tour Permits section:
>> 
>>    Tour permits are issued to packs traveling with adequate leadership
>>    under the following conditions:
>> 
>>    There will be no camping on the trip.
  
     (again, the rest of Dan's great response has been deleted for
 space.) 

>> These quotes come from the "Policies" section.  In BSA training there is
>> "Program" and "Policy", program is flexible, units are encouraged to do
>> what works for them, policies are not flexible, policies must be followed
>> unless you have explicit written permission from your Council Scout Executive
>> to vary from a policy.
 
 Let me add here, Dan, that very few Scout Executives (that is, THE
 Council Scout Executive (in some councils he or she is the Scout
 Executive; in larger Councils, they are Council Scout Executive) will
 approve such exception to BSA national policy. Camping is reserved for
 WEBELOS Cub Scouts, within some structure as to not to "burn them out"
 before reaching Scouting. 
 
>> Camping by den or pack is just not part of the Cub program, the leaders
>> do not receive any training in camping skills.  Camping and related skills
>> are a central part of Boy Scout Leader Basic Training and Webelos Leader
>> Basic Training.  The BSA liability insurance does not cover den or pack
>> camping specifically because the leaders are not trained.  I know that
>> many Cub leaders are highly skilled in camping, but in order to make it
>> a part of the program, the BSA must provide training so that every leader
>> can be sufficiently trained to conduct a safe activity.  The safety of
>> the boys is the number one consideration.
 
  (I deleted Danny's address, which is his address in Switzerland as
 well as his affialation address with the BSA in San Fransciso. CA. 
 I'll have him to explain his special situation)
  
>> OK, now I'm confused.  Your address is Switzerland, and you mention an
>> affiliation with a San Francisco unit.  My comments about policy apply
>> only to BSA, of course.  There are BSA units in Europe, but only on military
>> bases, I believe.  I expect there are no US military bases in Switzerland,
>> and probably no BSA units either.
 
 Dan....the BSA *does* have several units (nine Troops, eight Packs,
 a Varsity Team and four Explorer Posts) in Switzerland.  Most of them
 are located in Zurich, but there are units in Basel, Bern,
 Schaffhausen, Lausanne, and Geneva.  All of the country is located
 within the Alpine District of the Transatlantic Council, BSA. 

(NOTE: since I've posted this, Danny updated us on the current status
of the TAC's CH (european postal abbreiation for Switzerland) units.)
 
 Despite what most people think, the TAC also supports units chartered
 to embassies, US missions, NATO bases, and also to groups of citizens
 living abroad (as in the case of the Troop in Schaffhausen, located
 right over the Germany border in the north central area of the
 country.  At one time, there was also a BSA TAC summer camp (Camp
 Edelweiss) located in Liechtenstein (in the town of Schaan, north of
 the capitol of Vaduz) which was *great*. 

(NOTEx2:  I went to Camp Edelweiss as a WEBELOS Cub Scout and later as
a Boy Scout, during a european "world tour" of ALL of the TAC's eleven
camps in the summer of 1970!)
 
 Some more information....the units in Liechtenstein are supported by
 BOTH the Transatlantic and the Direct Service Councils. (there is a
 Troop and Pack there). 
  
 Didn't mean to get off of the subject, but I wanted to call a "pointo
 order" and to clarify. The BSA *is* international in location, and not
 just limited to where the military is.
 
 
 Settummanque!
 
 Mike L. Walton
 Former District Exploring/Varsity Chair
 Alpine District, TAC  (1984-86)
 
 Greenwood, Kentucky
Newsgroups: rec.scouting