From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 1992 17:28:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 26421@wam.umd.edu, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>In article <1bc9doINNrp4@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM  
>(Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer) writes:
>} HOWEVER, I am not evil by definition and CERTAINLY NOT by the skin color I
>} happened to have been born with.  I take great offense to the general nature
>} of his post and the condescending tone about the perceived inability of white
>} people to care about other peoples and the believed inability of white people
>} to grow to anything beyond tolerance.
>
>Face the real problem.  Your people enforced slavery 200 years ago and the  
>effects of that deed are STILL killing Black people in this country.  What is  
>being done about it?  What are YOU doing about it?  Are you merely enjoy the  
>comfort of being White?  How the HELL can you shout down something from your  
>ivory tower and expect me to take it as some form of edict!  If White people on  
>the whole "cared" so much, would we STILL be having this problem?

Interesting.  MY people?  My people were slaves long before yours were!  Try
building pyramids in the desert.  (Of course this type of shouting match serves
no real purpose)  As for a more personal level, my people were penniless in Eastern 
Europe during the time in question.  It is bad enough to blame people for what their 
ancestors did.  It is worse to assume that all white people are to be washed with one 
brush and are responsible for all the evil in the world that any white person ever 
committed.  My people saw about 1/3 of its population slaughtered in this century in
supposedly civilized Europe only 50 years ago.  By your definition, I should write off all Germans (and many other Europeans) and Arabs as never worth even talking to as
they cannot change.  That is garbage.  I acknowledge a strong distrust of both but 
recognize that as unreasonable and try to work on it.  I don't see the same attempt
from you.

Ivory tower?  I don't remember coming from a privileged background.  My father
was beated up for being Jewish.  My uncle lost job opportunities for the same reason.
You are not alone.  gay people suffer.  Somewhere in the world, every type
of person suffers.  US majorities are likely minorities somewhere else.

As for your last point about caring, no, I would say most people don't care as much
as they should about most people and most issues.  Therefore, we all need to
work together for improvement.  By painting people with a broad brush, you alienate
potential friends who might help.

>
>} I suggest you get the enormous chip off your shoulder and try to work with
>} people instead of assuming they are against you from the outset.
>
>It's called survival.  I had that mentality at first, but I just ended up  
>looking stupid.  I now EXPECT most Whites to disappoint me.  If they don't,  
>it's a pleasant surprise.

That's just wonderful.  Heaven forbid you try to give someone some credit and then
take it away if they prove they don't deserve it.  That would be a much healthier
way to interract with people.  I truly appreciate being pre-judged.

>
>} Now, I don't expect this post to change your mind, but I needed to write it.
>} I suppose you needed to write yours as well.  That is a shame.  Treating
>} white people with the respect and understanding you feel whites treat blacks
>} with sets us all backward.
>
>Change my mind from what?  It seems that you're so willing to flee from the  
>real problem.  I can understand why.  What do Whites have to gain from realized  
>Black equality either in soc.motss or elsewhere in this country?  Not a damn  
>thing ...

I have nothing to lose from equality and everything to gain.  Again, you assume
that I am part of the "global white community" if such a thing has ever existed.
As a Jew, as a homosexual, I face discrimination.  Not the same as you do but it can be
as difficult and as painful.  As best I can from the outside, I try to understand what
you have been through, are going through, and might have to deal with.  However,
there is no way I can see a justification for your type of blind rage.

>
>} I suspect you do not realize or do not care that you are becoming part of the
>} problem you seem to desperately want to solve.
>
>Educate yourself.  I will not put on blinders just because my anger may offend  
>Whites who think the status quo is just fine and dandy, cozy and comfy, and  
>want me just to tag along.

I never asked you to tag along.  Protest, fight, demonstrate.  But, you have no right
to assume from the outset that I am against you.  You are certainly entitled to
offend me.  But, anger can take on productive and destructive means.  The former
is much preferable to the latter.

>
>Donald - Lucien, wherever you are, I love you.

Well, Donald, you have made me reconsider my position on one issue although I
am not sure where I will end up on this one.  During the last March on Washington
(gay/lesbian) I was against the inclusion of a lot of issues I considered
tangential to the march (such as reproductive rights and equality for blacks) even
though they are critical to our society and I support them wholeheartedly.  I felt
that the march should be focused on the issue at hand.  Your rantings show me that
I may be wrong on this one.  And, I would ask you, since you asked me about what
whites have to gain.  Why don't the black (can I use that word?) marches
talk more about the inclusion of other issues? of other peoples?

Another rhetorical question I would like to ask is why the black and Jewish
communities have such problems getting along.  From what I understand, they
used to be strong allies.  I am not sure if anyone has the answer or if it is
relevant to motss, but it has concerned me for a long time.

Howard

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Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
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