HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Traditional vs Simplified Characters
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:39:33 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Oct11.175529.22944@chpc.utexas.edu> byab345@chpc.utexas.edu (Da Kuang) writes:
>...[stuff deleted]...   

To recap:  The original posting was about the changing of the traditional 
Chinese char to simplified char.  

Who is responsible for making the changes, I don't know and I'd love to know.
I'm against the change though.  I agree that language changes as time goes 
by.  However, imposed change like what the PRC did to Chinese char only 
renders meaning and prettiness to simplicity.

>Are you sure "it makes sense for all Chinese dialects"? One can always pick
>up some bone in egg. Even in the so called "standard characters", someone
>thinks 
>            ---'
>        ------|------
>           +-----+
>           |--+--|
>           +-----+
>           ---|---
>        --------------
>should mean 'far' because it composes of 'thousand miles', and the character
>
>               |
>            |__|__|
>               |
>           |___|___|
>
>should mean 'weight' since there are two 'mountains' in it. Someone can even
>go further to argue that
>
>                |
>           -----|-----
>                ^
>               /'\
>              /   \
>             /     \
>
>should be 'human', who is responsable for cutting off his hands and organ?

I don't know how to explain the relationship between the meanings and the 
structures of the first 2 characters.  However, according to "Che Man Kai Chi"
(written by Hui Suun, finished in 121 AD), there are six different ways that
a character can be formed.  Da Kuang only used one of them to explain the first
two characters he quoted.  It is quite possible that the characters 
aforementioned can be explained by the other 5 ways of coining Chinese 
Characters.  BTW, a normal posture of a standing human being looks more like 
the char

		| 
		| 
	       /^\  
	     /     \     

than the char for "big."  

You don't normally stand with your hands up, do you?  Do try the posture with
your hands up for 5 mins.  I doubt you will feel comfortable.  Also, I believe
that the ancient Chinese people knew how to make simple clothes before the 
invention of characters.  Moreover, the char is neutral, not masculine.  So.
don't overemphasize the male genital organ.  

Of course, Hui Suun could not be 100% right and niether could Duan Yuk Choi 
(leading scholar of Chinese Characters, Qing Dynasty).  Modern scholars do 
question some of their explanations.  

anDrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Improving One's English...
Organization: MITRE
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:21:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.194540.8581@oracle.us.oracle.com>, kwee@oracle.uucp
(Karl Wee) writes:
> 
> It seems that the most urgent thing for scc'ers to improve is their PINYIN.
> Some of the PINYINs posted are not just inaccurate bug downright
> embarrasing.
> 
> Scott Horne and Shannon Yeh at least got their pinyins straight :)
> 
> 

Don't blame us, we came from Taiwan and we have different pinyin system.

MSWD
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng)
Subject: Re: 9 Cai
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 10:11:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.001128.2524@cunews.carleton.ca> ebx@scs.carleton.ca writes:
>In article 6974@linus.mitre.org, 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
>> -| |-
>> -| |-
>> -| |-
>>-------
>>9 Cai4 (see above Chinese character) is very common vegetable.  I have two
>>ways to cook it (see list below).  Could anyone add this list for me.
>>Thanx.
>>
>>1) stir fry with Dou4Fu3Gan.
>>2) stir fry with
>>squid.
>
>How about fry with eggs?
>Or dumplings for all the great moments?
cooked in soups.
>
>---
>==============================================================================
>eeeeee    bbbbbb    x    x          \ i /  \  ._i_,     School of Comp. Sci.
>e  eeeeee b  bbbbbb  x xx   x       .---.     | | /     Carleton University
>eeeeee  e bbbbb   b   xxx  x        |---|  \  |---.     Ottawa, Ontario
>e  eeeeee b  bbbbb   x  xxx         |___|     |\ /      Canada K1S 5B6
>eeeeee    bbbbbb  b x   xx x        |   |   / / X       (613)788-2600x4340
>   eeeeee    bbbbbb    x    x       |   J  / / / \      ebx@scs.carleton.ca
>=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~
>	If there is only one thing works, try the QUIT button.
>==============================================================================
>
From: jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Qin Kuai (Re: Oct 1, our National Day)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 15:17:19 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: liverbug.hsc.usc.edu


In <BvrM14.Bs5@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
writes:

>I'm from South, that's why quiet often I think northernes are not the
>pure descendent of Han people. (no flame, please)

Of course not. They are as much a XiongNu, Xian1 Bei1, Jie2, Di3,
Qiang1, Liao2 or Jin1 as they are a Han4. :-)

>So what? They speak better mandarin than I do.

Yes, certainly their Mandarin are mcuh better than mine. But,
Mandarin is not a bit more "Chinese" than my mother tongue. In my
mother tongue, we call the long, crispy, deep-fried flour "You2
Zha4 Kuai4" (deep-fried Kuai4). Apparently, my ancestors hated
"Qin2 Kuai4" and his wife so much that they put two flour sticks
together to symbolize the couple and deep-fried them. But, look
at what the Northerners did to the name, they changed the name to
"You2 Tiao2". The new name totally lost its historical meaning.
Look at the name of chopsticks also. In my native tongue, we call
it:

	    o          o
	   ooooo      ooooo
	  o  o       o  o
		 o  o
		 o o
	    oooooooooooo
		 o
		oo
	  oooooooooooooooo
	      o        o
	     o  oooooo
	    o   o    o
		oooooo
		o    o
		oooooo

Look at what those Northerners did to it, they changed the name
to "Kuai4 Zi0". Don't you hate it?   :-)


P.S. The above are meant to be jokes, so don't take it too seriously.
:-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

****Ren2 Zi4 Song4 Hou4 Shao3 Ming2 Kuai4,
    Wo3 Dao4 Fen2 Qian2 Kui4 Xing4 Qin2.

(Since Song dynasty, people rarely name themselves "Kuai4",
 and I come to the grave of Yue4Fei1 and feel ashamed that my
 surname is "Qin2".)

P.P.S. I might have got some characters wrong in this couplet.
Please correct me if I did make mistakes.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.china
From: min@faraday.ece.cmu.edu (Min Ye)
Subject: Re: ******* FREE CREDIT CARDS *******
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:38:57 GMT

In article <9210121849.AA18273@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu> xiaofei@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes:
>* If you know any other financial institutions who issue VISA/MASTERCARD with
>* no annual fees, please let me know. 
>
>AT&T, the wrong choice. 
>1-800-CALL-ATT ask for universial card. 

AT&T's Universal Card is not free anymore, at least to me.

>
>-- 
>xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu | Subscribe Chinese Poem Exchange and Discussion List 
>mail LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET with "SUB CHPOEM-L 1st LastName" in the MESSAGE BODY
>InterNet Address: UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU | Posting in UUENCODED GB and BIG5

min

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:19:18 GMT

In article <ldbeulINN9jb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
>
>FYI, there is a place in the Front Gate of Beijing used to be named as
>Da Za Lan, now people called it Da San Lan. There is a town in Taipei
>called Mu Za, it shouldn't never be called Mu San.

	Last time I was in Beijing I still hear people call it Da4 Si4la4r.
Neither Za nor Sha.  :-)  Actually it is something between Si4 and Ci4...
Never heard anyone call it San Lan.

>Wu San Quei (Qui) was the person who opened Beijing City Gate to let Qing
>army enter into Beijing. His character was same as Qin Kuai who betrayed
>his country.

	Wu SanGui was too far away from Beijing to open its City Gate.  



	 Eddie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Qin Hui was not Qin "Kuai"
From: <SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:39:20 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <Bvv2J7.D8M@cs.psu.edu>, jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) says:
>
>p. 159: gui4, (1) gui4: One kind of tree ...
>              (2) hui4: see page 187
>p. 187: hui4, (2) hui4: [Qin Hui] Nan2 Song4 Jian1 Chen2.
>              (1) gui4: see page 159
>p. 251: kuai,   This character is not listed under this pronounciation.
>
>So "Qin Hui" is "Qin2 Hui4".
>The pronounciation "gui4" is used for a tree.
>The pronounciation "kuai4" is not listed in the dictionary.
>
>One more point I must say is that you do not need to attack too much when
>a pure technical issue is discussed. I kept deleting those kind of stuff
>for you when I quoted your post, but you kept writing more in your next post.
>This does not help discussion.
>
>I do not want to laugh at you even you attacked correct pronounciation "Hui"
>with incorrect pronounciation "Kuai" and output too many "extra" words.
>Nobody gets respected by laughing at others. But I do suggest you not to
>write too much on unrelated aspects.

From my memory, the correct should be"Qin Gui". There is an argument on
this sometime ago in a local newspaper in Nanjing (I seem had an
impression that Qin was born in Nanjing). The final conclusion is from
one of his grand-grand-****-son -).
Anyway, who care how it's prononced. We can't always remember Hui has
four different version ( Check the novel written by Lu Xun)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:28174 soc.culture.taiwan:14541 soc.culture.hongkong:12752
From: pwu@doctor-pepper.ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Better off under Japanese? (Was Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10)
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:29:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
In-reply-to: jbradfor@leland.Stanford.EDU's message of 16 Oct 92 05:35:12 GMT


    In article <1bj56mINNas6@agate.berkeley.edu> bl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Bo-Yi Lin) writes:
    >	Hey, but you do have to give the Japanese credit for building a good
    >infrastructure in Taiwan (albeit for military purposes).  When the KMT took
    >over they sorta undid what the Japanese built.  Kaohsiong used to have really
    >wide boulevards until old man Chiang came over; now all we have are traffic
    >congestions.
    >-- 
    And the Germans got the trains to run on time during WWII.

I cannot attest to the facts.  But the principle seems straight: even evil has
some salvage value.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Oct 10, Our National Day
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:23:55 GMT

>
>>Why do Singaporeans do the same? Many of them don't think themselves as Chinese.
>
>Even I don't think THEY are chinese, most of them are only a sort of 
>"RUNNING DOG" who like only to speak English and pretend not understanding
>Chinese.   :(
>

This is outrageous. I know many Singaporeans indeed don't know how to speak
Chinese.  Why should Singaporeans must know Chinese ?
Do you know how many second generation Chinese born in U.S. can't speak
Chinese ? Are they running dog ?

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cheung@strider.hw.stratus.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: search for a way to give birth to a son
Keywords: method, son
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:09:46 GMT
Organization: Cheung's Funky Shop, Inc.

Article: 18552 of soc.culture.hongkong
From: wu@uranus.cerfacs.fr (Wangnan Wu) wrote

>Hi,
>I'm just thirty-two years old and I had five daughters. I am
>eager for method to give birth to a son! Do you know any method?

>I'm looking forward to hearing from you!

>Wangnan WU


Funky Cheung says, 1st, you need to change your name.
Your name, pronouced in Mandrine, is as followed,


 /-----      \ |--|      |-----|
 -|-|-|-    -|-|- |      |--|--|
--------     |/|- |      |--|--|
 / | | \      -+-         --|--|
              -+-           |  |
             --+--         /  \|



 /_____        --+--	 |-----|
/ / / |    |--|  |	 |--|--|
 / /  |    |--|--|--	 |--|--|
/ /  \|    |--|  |	  --|--|
               --+---       |  |
	                   /  \|

They certainly aren't very helpful for your effort in trying 
to make a baby boy.

Funky Cheung has a thing for everyone and every concern.

Cheung's Funky Shop, Inc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: cw@orion.uucp (C.W. Chung)
Subject: Re: SURVEY -- who do you hope wins the U.S. election?
Organization: Objectivity Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 01:58:21 GMT

In article <Bw2quu.9wr@acsu.buffalo.edu> chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang) writes:

>Interesting, would Mr. Matloff be so kind as telling us the purpose 
>of this survey? After all, our opinion would have absolutly no impact
>at all on the outcome of this election. Why would you need such meaningless
>information?

There were quite a few articles on MFN and which candidate the netters prefer
in scc, schk, sct for the past several months.  So clearly, these are topics 
of great interest to the netters.  I applaud anyone taking the time
and trouble to gather statistic like this.  Otherwise, I don't know of
any better way to reach to the 'silent majority' to find out what the
netters think about these two issues.

I think Matloff state his purpose quite clearly: simply do a tally of
the response of the questions and publish it in the net. 

BTW, I think this kind of survey is useful precisely because many of 
the netter cannot vote and have no way to make our views noticed.

>Netters please forgive my suspicion. But judging from Mr. Matloff's past
>behavior on SCT, I'd think twice before sending in my response.

If you are concern about the accuracy and fairness of the survey (i.e.
on the side of survey gatherer, and also those netters sending in multiple 
responses), these are fair concern (shortcomings of any email survey).
Perhaps we could ask for independent verification of the results.
However, simply because of past disagreement with Matloff, I don't think
it warrant the kind of suspcion you have.

Just couldn't help thinking of the saying: lead, follow or get out of
the way.  

-cw-
_____________________________________________________________________________
C.W.Chung       Objectivity Inc.      Object DBMS (ODBMS)   Tel: 415/688-8023
                800 El Camino Real,   Menlo Park CA 94025   Fax: 415/325-0939
                                      email: cw@objy.com    or  uunet!objy!cw
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: "6.4" bill, blood card
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:35:22 GMT

In article <92287.005713LHGCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <LHGCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>My opinion is, why someone just want to accuse beneficiaries of S1216 as Blood
>
>Card Holders in stead of charging the Blood Card Maker? Who should be hold
>
>responsible for the subsequent Green Card Bill s1216? CSS or CG? Personally
>
>I PREFER to sweat out my green card with honest, respectable work TO  to
>
>be handed out by Uncle Sam with pity. Who put us in this pitying situation?
>
>CSS or CG? Why someone, like Shannon Yeh, always charges the majority
>
>of CSS instead of CG? Are we weaker, minor, no harm to anybody, can not
>
>retaliate anyone? It that coward?
>
>Lynn

After you did your part in distinguishing CG from CSS, it is my turn to
"separate" the "CSS" further:
                              Honest CSSs and others.

A lot of things were mixed up these days. :-(
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Fax to Mr. Bush ...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:12:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.161805.904@unine.ch> Congzhong.Wang@info.unine.ch writes:
> In article <1bfmioINN2ve@phakt.usc.edu>, zyou@phakt.usc.edu (Zhongbai You)  
writes:
> > In article <Bw2FvH.HzE@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  
yuechen@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (yueting chen) writes:
> >>In article <1992Oct13.103307.893@unine.ch> Congzhong.Wang@info.unine.ch  
writes:
> >>>to say these students own tuition to the CHINESE PEOPLE. 
> >                                           =================
> > 
> >   I own tuition to my parents ONLY. My parents are CHINESE PEOPLE
> 
>    OK. Your parents are Chinese people. Then how many workers and peasants
> support a student?  How much do they earn?  Where has their money gone? 
> 
> > 
> >>>  Pay attention, I did NOT say "government"!
> > 
> > 
> > Z. You
> > 
> > 

One thing we should make it clear, Mr .Wang Congzhong. College students in  
China are supported by millions of workers and peasants. But I don't think we  
should feel guilty for being supported by them. We don't owe them because our  
parents are among them. You should know that China has to choose certain among  
of high school students and let them go to college. If not we, there would be  
others. The reason why we (not they) are selected to colleges is because we  
passed the exams and they failed. It's fair. I think so far, China has not seen  
something more fair than college entrance exams. So, I don't feel any guilt  
when I left China. This is simply because we get what we deserve, and then it's  
our free choice to stay there or leave based on this. We are not suppose to pay  
back our tuition because we are selected according to fair competitions. 

The reason why so many college students left China is very clear and I need not  
mention. So, it is the government who should feel guilty for not able to keep  
its talented people it selected and thus waste the tax-payers money. It's is  
not our fault but the government's fault. If you want to find excuse for the  
government, you'd better find a better one.


Carl

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Chinese Word Processors?
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:22:41 GMT

I have already posted this to comp.mac.system, but it occurred to me
that it might help to post it here as well.

Well, I looked in the FAQ and in the sumex-aim and umich archives, but
I couldn't find any answers to this question.  Can anyone recommend a
good word processor (or even any word processor) that will allow me to
process Chinese text?  I'm looking for something that will run on a
System 7 Mac Classic, if that helps.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: r1n7008@rigel.tamu.edu 
Subject: Visa Number for November 1992
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:19:00 GMT

Does anybody out there happen to know the Visa Number for November 1992?
I have not seen anything posted in the World Journal so far. Something wrong?

A reponse will be greatly appreciated.

Bob
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Da4 Zha4 Lan2 and Guang1 Zha4
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na 
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:55:50 GMT

In article <ldm5qbINNjv3@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
>In article <Bw2Du2.IAB@nic.umass.edu> s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203) writes:
[.....] 
>
>A final note: According to my source, the reason that Mandarin has so much
>illogic and unreasonable change was due to some CCP leaders who could/can not
>pronounce correct Mandarin, strongly hold their hometown accent, so some
>blind followers took the language as the order and made  changes. :-)

There he goes again, and his source is 100% accurat of course!  ;->
Most national leaders CCP or KMT alike, speak horrible mandarin, if either
one wanta change Mandarin to suits them, we might as well speaking
Sichuan-Hunanese as a offical tone on the mainland right now.  ;->
And if KMT is still on mainland, I am in luck, I speak the native tongue
of Mr. Jiang and his lower-Yangzi born generals(his HuangPu pupils).  ;->  

now does Mandarin or GuoYu which ever you called it sounds remotely
like Sichuanese or Shanghainese?  remember the KMT prompted Mandarin also,
even when they were ruling the mainland.  or do you know at all how these
dialects sounds like?  Mandarin was based on northern dialects, mainly
but not completely on Beijing dialect, if native Beijingers turn on their
local slang switch and speak at 100% speed, we southerners will be quite  
lost in the conversation.  With standard mandarin the same thing wouldn't
happen.   

Acturally there is one thing I don't like so much about mandarin:  I can't
curse in it as much as I can in my native dialect, certain words are just
not there.  ;->  

Stop being so provincial, hey if you don't like Mandarin, speak your 
dialect, or better yet, speak english to your countrymen, afterall,
they will trying to get$bucks$ from American "Da Ye" whose buying up
entire streets, right?  ;->   hopefully, "Jia Yang Gui Zi"  will be 
an illogical and unreasonable phrase to you.  
 
Would you please explain how Mandarin is so illogic and unreasonable?
and which words did the "CCP leaders" alter to suit their hometown accent?
Please, I am dying to hear from your sources.   In fact, I wanta to know
how much difference between Taiwan "GuoYu" and mainland "PuTongHua",
afterall, the CCP couldn't possibly alter the language in Taiwan, can it?   



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong