HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:48:41 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <11511@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes...
>In article <25032@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
> 
>> Nowhere in the Bible does it say that homosexuality is a disease. Yet the 
> 
>Your ignorance is showing again.  It does list it as a sin, along
>with many others.  If you choose to disagree about the validity
>of the Bible, fine, but don't pretend that it's not in there.

*My* ignorance?  I stand by my claim that nowhere in the Bible does it
say that homosexuality is a disease.

Is every sin a disease according to Christianity?  Are
homosexuals sick because they sin according to Christianity?  

I am really amazing at how far the religious apologists are willing to 
go to attack me and distance themselves and Christianity from things
which have long been associated with it.  Many Christians in the US
believe in the literal truth of the Bible.  You may say that it's not
part of the religion - but it is to these people.  I have known quite
a few people who strongly believe that the World was created in 6*24 hours
and that God rested to 24 more.  And if you don't believe it also 
then your soul is in jeopardy.

-Scott 
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dmpowell@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darin M. Powell)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Keywords: fiction endings
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:22:25 EDT


The last lines of Harlan Ellison's tongue-in-cheek story
"Ecoawareness"

	"Wasn't that a nice story? And fuck you, too."

	Darin Powell
	Syracuse University -- Ninth Circle of Hell


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:30:41 GMT

David Kassover writes:

	Francis Muir writes:

		So please step out from your miasmatic gloom and get ready 
		to party, since this is the First Notice of the First Annual 
		Classic Memorial West Coast Rabbinical Potluck Supper and 
		Bookfest, currently being organized by our own Susan Gere. 
		Da da! So, no more of that infectious or noxious exhalation 
		from putrescent organic matter, and let the games commence.

	This sounds like a real blast.  What kind of games are on the agenda?

Fowler's Rules, so it'll be an agendum. Great minds wrestling, little minds 
running at the mouth, &c. At least one Net Angel has promised to demonstrate 
how easy it isn't to dance on the point of a needle. Think of it as an 
intellectual sleepover or Bookfest at Tiffany's.

							Fido



Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12842 rec.arts.sf.misc:2139 rec.humor:24259 alt.folklore.urban:19494 alt.religion.kibology:3156
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:51:25 GMT
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Jul22.201814.1938@linus.mitre.org> jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
>>  
>> I would not say that he was an atheist. More correctly, he just did not
>> accept any "Devine text" as literal truth. 
>> 
>> Bill

Is that Andy Devine? (or is it Smilin' Ed?)

cjl
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13505 sci.skeptic:13434 talk.religion.misc:13088
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Summary: Here we go round the mulberry bush
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:05:37 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul30.175057.9797@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>
>Well, his name was James Ussher, he was a bishop, and he lived in the 16th
>and 17th centuries (1581-1656).  And, yes, he did that, which was quite
>clever of him considering that there are a great many gaps in the biblical
>record, and, yes, an awful lot of people took him seriously.
>
>Which only goes to prove that people can be schmucks.
>
>As I recall, he came up with a specific *day* in 4004 (in June) and even
>a specific time of day, but I could be wrong about that.

October 24th, at nine o'clock in the morning.

Of course, he neglected to specify which time zone  8-)

Actually, if what he meant by nine o'clock in the morning was the
canonical hour that comes halfway between sunrise and noon (whose
name I've conveniently forgotten, then time zone is somewhat
irrelevent, I suppose.

>
>Nonetheless:  it is false to say that "most" Christians believe this these
>days.  I don't believe it was ever generally accepted, though a few conservative
>sects adopted it.

I should think it a truism that there is somewhat of a difference
between any individual's beliefs, and that which they utter as
catechism...


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: dcox@relay.nswc.navy.mil (David Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Who is I.E. Lonoff in Roth's "The Ghost Writer"?
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:42:47 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: NSWC

When I read Philip Roth's "The Ghost Writer" some time ago,
I couldn't help but wonder, since that novella is apparently
thinly veiled autobiography, who the character of I.E. Lonoff
was based on. Does anyone know? Thanks.

David Cox
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:50:50 GMT

Margaret Mikulska writes:

	Roger Squires writes:

		The Dowager Duchess of Denver's cat in Sayers'
		*Busman's Honeymoon* is named this, and I see that
		Drury Lane in Ellery Queen's *Drury Lane's Last Case*
		mentions Ahasuerus as well.

		Who is Ahasuerus?  There is no entry in the Smaller 
		Classical Dictionary, nor in the back of the Webster's 
		Unabridged, so I'm confident someone here will know.

	Ahasuerus or the Wandering Jew - a personnage from a mediaeval 
	Christian legend, condemned to wander without rest until the 
	Day of Judgement, for having ridiculed Christ on his way to the 
	cross.  The Wandering Jew appears in various variants of the 
	legend under different names, of which Ahasuerus is the most 
	often encountered.

Excellent. Miss Sayers was something of a Mediaeval Christian scholar, so
she would have known exactly who Ahasuerus was. The cat plays a minor role
in the famous meeting between Harriet Vane and Honoria Lucasta, the
Dowager Duchess of Denver. The episode is reported in the Prothalamion to 
*Busman's Honeymoon*, which is a collection of letters and major extracts 
from the D-cubed's Diary. By far and away the funniest of all Miss Sayers'
writings -- and the most free. She must have been singularly happy, or 
feigned it. This Prothalamion is one reason why *Busman's Honeymoon* is
my favorite of all the Sayers works.

						Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: art@wvus.org (Art Nicolaysen)
Subject: Looking for Tolstoy's _The False Coupon_
Organization: World Vision U.S.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 04:23:02 GMT

This is one of Tolstoy's lesser known works, and I haven't had much
luck at the public libraries or local bookstores.  Can anybody point
me to a source for this?  (book seller, library, publisher, especially
if they specialize in Russian Literature). 

Also, am seeking info on any of Tolstoy's works that have been adapted
for the theatre.

TIA,

Art

--
Art Nicolaysen                art@wvus.org                Pasadena, CA
-- 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13072 rec.arts.comics:21023
From: rshankar@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (Ravi Shankar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.comics
Subject: Where to find Asterix comics?
Keywords: Asterix comics.
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:10:13 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pyramid Technology


Hi !

I'm looking for a bookstore ( preferably in the Bay Area ) selling
ASTERIX comics, by Goscinny & Uderzo.

Any pointers would be really appreciated.

Since a friend would be posting this for me, please do not reply to
this post. Instead, could you email to "jc@hcla.com" or
"uunet!hcla!jc" ?

Thanks,
JC
----------------------------------
Jayachandar Suryamurthy
jc@hcla.com
----------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Bathroom reading
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:21:12 GMT

Betsy Perry writes:

 I like her translation of Brillat-Savarin; it's the ideal
 back-of-the-toilet book, amenable to non-chronological and
 interrupted reading.

Mark Taranto ripostes:
I've always found Eliot's THE LOVE SONG OF J. ALFRED PRUFROCK to be
the perfect length for a shit.

Any other suggestions?

	As I remember Henry Miller has an essay approximately titled:
"Reading in the toilet". I think he considered it a depraved activity, 
which is somewhat ironic.

--Keith
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Little Men
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:02:54 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

In article <22JUL199208582109@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo) writes:
>"Swiss Family 
>Robinson", another book I read and re-read in my youth, turned out 
>upon recent re-examination to be full of goopy religious 
>sentimentality.
>
>Anybody else dig out the dusty classics of their childhood lately? How 
>did it go?
>
I had a similar experience with Madeleine L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time.
And I found the math inaccurate (something about multi-dimensions, it's
been over a year since I re-read it).


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere)
Subject: Re: Jumping to conclusions in r.a.b (was Re: Revisited Classics &c.)
Organization: Stanford University CSL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:14:45 GMT


Mark Taranto writes:
>
[ Dazzling treatise on certain patterns in r.a.b. omitted for brevity ]


As a new reader who was attacked by one of those mentioned in a manner
similar to that explicated some time back, I award M. Taranto a standing 
ovation for his daring and incisive analysis:


 C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  C C  
  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  l l 
   a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a  a a 
    p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p  p p !!


This sort of exchange is all very well among players who understand
the rules of engagement, but baiting the uninitiated strikes me as
being rather like showing someone to a Bath Room when what they wanted
was the W.C. - cruel, and unworthy of the intelligent and refined.

There is plenty of opportunity in an educated discussion for clever
witticism at the expense of an opponent without thrusting the unwary
and unprepared unwillingly into that role.


ObBooks:

C.S. Lewis maintained that he did not *intend* Christian allegory 
in the Narnia books. The interesting thing about his understanding
of the working of the unconscious mind is explored in the notes to 
a collection of unfinished stories, one of which involves a parallel 
universe wherein the beings have a stinger (like a bee's) on the 
forehead of the males [perhaps only the dominant male, I'm a bit 
fuzzy].  His writing group, of which I believe Tolkien was a member, 
gently suggested that modern Freudian theory might provide certain 
interpretations for this appendage.  He then actually wrote into the 
story something to the effect that the powerful urge [the protagonist 
felt] to "sting" a particular nubile young woman was not sexual, but 
*strictly a physiological* need.

 :-) :-) :-)    _I'm_ willing to take someone so naive at his word.
From: markmc@sierra.com (Mark McWiggins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Got a copy of *Engine Summer* you'd part with?
Keywords: John Crowley
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:12:29 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa

I went to hear a reading/Q&A session with John Crowley (*Little, Big*,
*Aegypt*, etc.) last night.  He read an excerpt from his forthcoming
work, the second volume of *Aegypt* (to be four, eventually).

(An aside: I know 'trilogy', but what are the words for series of four
and five?  'Quaternary?'  'Pentagon?' :-) )

It was absorbing, as I would have expected, and I'll be looking forward
to its publication ... Crowley was also charming & funny in the Q&A
session, even fielding questions from the Very Serious Participants of
the Serious Writers Workshop that was going on, and for which he was in
town ("What's your perspective on the publishing industry?" -- "I've been
adopted by a Renaissance Prince at Bantam" (etc.))

Anyway, for those of you who don't know, *Little, Big* is rather a cult
novel, and I suppose I'm one of the cult (keeping the local bookstore
bought out of it and pressing it on people as I do).  But there was an
even greater reaction among the crowd last night over the mention of
*Engine Summer*, and the four copies available were gone by the time I
got there.

So: got a copy?  This worked for me once before when *Little, Big* was
out of print, so I thought I'd give it a chance.

Thanks in advance.  And if you haven't read *Little, Big*, it's back in
print.  It's not to everyone's taste, but just try the first 20 pages and 
you'll be able to tell from there. ;-)

--
Mark McWiggins           +1 206 822 5200x377 days      Box 31356
markmc@sierra.com        +1 206 632 1905 24 hrs.       Seattle WA 98103-1356
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: isolation
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:36:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul21.163610.23157
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <BrpCyA.99B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mbvg9741@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
(plain) writes:
>
>    I've been interested lately in the effects of prolonged
>    isolation of an individual or a small group.  Could any
>    body out there tell me of some fiction that deals with
>    this or perhaps some pschological works?
>    Thanks.
>    -Vincent


_No Exit_, Jean-Paul Sartre.  "L'enfer, c'est les autres," or something 
like that.  Eternity is about as prolonged as you can get. 

--Barbara
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12792 sci.philosophy.meta:1324
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:09:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.001200.5775@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>
>Is the atheist permitted to note that, given the absence of evidence
>*for* the existience of the supernatural, that a tentative hypothesis
>of non-existence seems to be in order?

Unfortunately for the atheist, and as has been frequently noted in other
contexts, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

******************************************************************************
Rogue academic. They're dangerous when they go feral, academics are.

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pete@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Peter Staples)
Subject: Explanations of endings.
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:40:23 GMT

Howdy,

I've just finished reading Huxley's Brave New World. At the end
of the book when John ("the savage") hangs himself his feet slowly
change direction like the hands of a compass. Excuse my ignorance,
but what is the significance of this?

While I'm on the subject of endings.... two other books I have read
recently spring to mind.

Patrick Suskind's Perfume  .... I loved the book, hated the ending. 
Why would someone as inherently (sp?) evil as Grenouille give his life
away?

John Fowles Magus  .... does anyone want to explain that ending? I
realise the book is about manipulation... but I still didn't like the ending.

It's getting to where I'm scared to read a last chapter!

Thanks in advance

Peter (I'm a maths student .... that might explain it)
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: _A Constitutional History of the United States_
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:15:11 GMT
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway


cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

> Unfortunately, I run into too many college students like the gal
> who recently expressed amazement at discovering the U.S. had a
> Civil War in the last century.  (Yes, educated in California).

This is unfortunate.  I'm as amazed by this as I am by the fact that
there are still people who refer to women as "Gals."  It is unfortunate
that education does not imply enlightenment.


Mark
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From:  (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu)
Subject: Sinclair's _The Jungle_ + More
Organization: haphazard, at best
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:46:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.121313.9659@linus.mitre.org>, jartz@bassoon.mitre.org (John Artz) writes:
> 
> 
> I read The Jungle in college and thought it was the most powerful novel
> I had ever read (and still do).  I didn't think socialism was the answer, but
> I definately felt that labor unions were, after reading the book.  Now I have
> to wonder whether or not I was just dupped by some slick propaganda.
> I can see how my emotions were being manipulated, but that was because
> I thought that the story was at least plausible, if not based on actual case
> studies.  Was the whole story just an improbable fabrication ??
> 

You should always take such novels with a grain of salt.  For perspective, I 
always recommend reading The Jungle and Atlas Shrugged - back to back.  This
gives you the capitalism is evil/socialism is evil  treatments, the 2 tend to balance.

Not to start another silly thread, but what are other examples of 2 favourite back to 
back novels, wheteher for ironical purposes, or balance, or whatever?

Like "The Life of Ghandi" with "I, The Jury"  by Mickey Spillane.
Or Hemmingway and Lovecraft

Jon  jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
===============================
"He was lying there dead, and I was standing over him grinning.  'Cause I
had killed him."  Mickey Spillane

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: donofrio@nereid.sal.ists.ca (Frank D'onofrio)
Subject: isolation
Organization: Space Astrophysics Laboratory, ISTS, Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:06:09 GMT


  Anthony Storr is an English psychologist who wrote a book called
"Solitude". It deals mainly with the benefits of solitude and he shows
how the ability to handle, and the desire for, isolation is a sign of maturity.


Frank 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:51:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.035109.19479@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>
>Mike, fine, have it your way.  If you can't see the difference between
>the nuanced comic villain Shylock and the noble Othello, and
>consequently you can't see the difference between referring to the
>former as "usurer" and the latter as "monstrous black miscegenator",
>then we'll add anti-Semitism (or self-hatred if Posner is Jewish) to
>Judge Posner's charge sheet.  The issue is unimportant to me.

Posner's "charge sheet"?  What is that supposed to mean?




Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:50:23 GMT
Summary: from farther afield ...
Keywords: longest, great, sentences


I have a certain fondness for the ending of the book of Jonah, in which
**** speaks:

	"And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there
	are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who do not
	know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?"

	
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		We must know the truth, and we must
				love the truth we know, and we must
mls@usl.com			act according to the measure of our love.
standard disclaimer	  				-- Thomas Merton
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:38:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.161701.18316@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <1992Jul31.120909.23748@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org writes:
>>In article <1992Jul31.001200.5775@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>>>
>>>Is the atheist permitted to note that, given the absence of evidence
>>>*for* the existience of the supernatural, that a tentative hypothesis
>>>of non-existence seems to be in order?
>>
>>Unfortunately for the atheist, and as has been frequently noted in other
>>contexts, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.
>
>Perhaps I should have emphasized "tentative" . . .
>
>At what point does the continuing lack of evidence become a
>presumption that no evidence will show up?
>
I would suggest that, if you move to one of the religion groups,
you will find many who will merrily dispute your statement that
there is an "...absence of evidence *for* the existence of the
supernatural..." and who will argue that it is those who profess
that there is no deity are the ones who are without evidence.

My point, which seems somehow to have eluded you, is that there is
no way to "prove" the point to a hypothetical unbiased observer
one way or another: the necessary experiments are impossible to
perform; no-one was around to leave a written record when the original
work was done (if you believe in evolution, at least - if you believe
in creation then there are several records - but, of course, they
are frequently based on what is clearly hearsay - no people around
till day 6, for instance, so some other being must have told them
what happened on the first 5 days, and of course you would still have
no hard *evidence* from this that, say, someone else had not divided
the waters from the land - er, but then, I suppose, given the tenor
of your writing, that you probably don't believe in creation); and,
if God does allow us free will (at least in choosing whether or not
to worship him), then He/She is certainly not going to appear (at
least not to nonbelievers) since that would be coercion.

******************************************************************************
Rogue academic. They're dangerous when they go feral, academics are.

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books