HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jlw3@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Joseph L. Wood, III)
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:25:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.193749.18092@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
> >>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
> >>Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.
> 
> As a Troop Committee member, one of my concerns is smoothing the
> transition from 5th grade Webelos to the Troop.  Over the past
> few years, the 5th graders have been woefully unprepared, to the
> point that we need to retest the boys on everything that they were
> supposed to have done to get the Arrow of Light (e.g., we can tolerate
> a bit of fumbling over the Scout Law, but when they get bogged down
> on "trustworthy", there's a problem).

I think that this depends on the crop of kids.  When this fall's ninth
graders were in kindergarten in our town. the kindergarten teacher
thought she was teaching second grade.  The next year she was brought
down to earth.  The past couple of years have been terrible.

> 
> How have other Troops and 5th grade Webelos Dens worked together?  Also,
> in what month do you have crossover (or do the boys finish the year
> with the pack and not join the Troop until the start of 6th grade)?

We've tried it both ways.  Holding them in Cubs until June and bringing
them in earlier, sometimes as early as March.  One problem we've encountered
is that Cubs aren't prepared for Winter and early Spring camping.  They
don't have the gear, the skills, or the stamina.

In any event I've never seen a Cub make a successful transition to
the Troop who didn't go to summer camp that first summer.  This
year I have two new scouts who didn't so I hope that they'll
prove me wrong.

Joe Wood
Scoutmaster,  Troop 52 George Washington Council
jlw@mtuxo.att.com
From: hay@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Angus Hay)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:04:05 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand

In <1992Aug19.150509.6963@bnr.ca> brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner) writes:

>In article <johnw.5.714204383@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au>, johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless) writes:
>|> the Scout promise as we in Australia know it is as follows,
>|> On my honour,
>|> I promise that I will do my best,
>|> To do my duty to my God and
>|> To the Queen of Australia,
>|> To help other people,and
>|> To live by the Scout Law.

>Interesting.  In the U.S. it is (please excuse punctuation):

>On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty,
>to God and my country,
>to help other people at all times,
>to keep myself physically fit, mentally awake, and
>morally straight.

South Africa's is:

On my honour, I promise that I will do my best,
To do my duty to God and my country,
To help other people at all times,
And to obey the Scout Law.

What about the Scout Law? We have ten, which we think are the
usual ones, summed up by:

Trusty, loyal and helpful,
Brotherly, courteous, kind,
Obedient, smiling and thrifty,
Clean in body and mind.

(The real text is a bit long to type now)...

1. A Scout's honour is to be trusted.

etc, etc...



-- 
     *   *  Angus Hay, Dept of Electrical Engineering,   
    **   *  University of the Witwatersrand,                 
   *******  Private Bag 3, WITS, 2050, New South Africa   
  *  *   *  Internet: hay@nyquist.ee.wits.ac.za Tel:(27)(11)716-5423
 *   *   *  NeXTmail: hay@turing.ee.wits.ac.za  Fax:(27)(11)403-1929
From: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Wearing Eagle Badge & Medal
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:06:16 GMT
Reply-To: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx

In article <1992Aug17.133254.17282@eng.umd.edu>, wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough) writes:
|> Does anyone out there know of the guidelines for wearing the
|> eagle badge and/or medal?  In particular, can an eagle 18yrs
|> or older wear the medal at cerimonies?
|> 
Once an Eagle, always an Eagle.  Adults (18 an older) should NOT wear the
patch.  At 18 the Eagle patch should be replaced by the Eagle (red, white, &
blue) knot.

The medal can be worn by ALL Eagles adult or scout regardless of the troop
that they originally earned the rank in.  It should be worn only at court of
honors, etc.  I only wear mine at Eagle court of honors.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Brunner - (brunner@bnr.ca)
All opinions are my own and have nothing whatsoever to do with BNR, NT,
NTI, Bell Canada, or any of the BCE corporations or affiliates.
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: BofA thinks the BSA allows gay scouts
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:10:19 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL


(According to an article by Teresa Moore, San Francisco Chronicle
Staff Writer Wednesday, August 19, 1992:

The Bank of America will fund the BSA again because it thinks that the
BSA allows gay scouts. The bank claims to have gotten this information
from the BSA, but the BSA denies it.

- Carl



--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Followup-To: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:46:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.234357.17464@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
>| What about, say, a group that let in blacks but still preached 
>| hatred of Jews? Can you suggest a policy that would do so here?
>The challenge you posed was to create a policy banning the KKK but
>not the BSA, and I did so.  I did not attempt to describe a policy
>that would ban all noxious groups.  Don't change the rules.

That WASN'T ME!!!

The above question is the _first_ question I have asked you in this whole
thread!

>In general, I have no opposition to a group of A's creating an
>organization by and for A's.

So it's equally OK, as far as you're concerned, if A's are "non-Jews",
"whites", or "theists"?  You have no trouble creating an organization by and
for whites, as long as they don't write "we hate blacks" in their charter?
Can I start a white-only grocery store, as long as I don't preach hatred
about blacks?  What about white-only bus seats?  [Hint: You cannot reply
"it is impossible to start a white-only grocery store without motives that
include hatred", since I will then reply similarly about theistic scouting
organizations....]
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.110428.10268@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>Is it possible to create a policy that supports discrimination of
>atheists and gays but excludes discrimination of Jews and
>African-Americans? If not, should the BSA be excluded or should the
>KKK be included?
>

I don't understand the objection to any private group using any criteria 
whatsoever for membership. If you don't like it, don't support it, but
freedom for all includes freedom for those you loathe. As long as they 
aren't supported by your tax dollars. BSA has the same standards they 
have had for something like ninety years. They have done far more good
than harm. I think your energies would be better spent in other directions.
I spent four years in the Boy Scouts. The religious aspects had no meaning
to me, and were easily ignored. At the age of 12-14, I don't believe sexual
preferences are even obvious, let alone relevant. As far as discrimination
against Jews and blacks, this is a worldwide organization represented by 
people of all races, religions, and nationalities. 
  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are too few good
influences on young people today.

Jeff Achenbach
achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com


Jeff Achenbach
achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: American Flag Disposal
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 06:43:35 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU (Joseph Combs) writes:

> In cleaning out the storage shed where I work my boss found a couple of
> tattered old American flags. She asked if our troop could take care of
> disposing of them in a fit manner.  Is there anyone out there who could
> either post or e-mail me the proper procedure for destroying an American
> flag ?
>
>                                             Thanks,
>                                             Joe
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the Veterans of Foreign Wars could help you. I was told that if
you wanted a flag ceremony (and even a flag for your troop) to call up the
VFW and they would come out and show your troop how to show respect for
the flag. I'm sure they would know what to do when the flag is ready to
go. I think you're supposed to burn it, but I'm not sure.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Scouting Magazine Article
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:00:36 GMT

In article <2233@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com> hilding@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Hilding Holroyd) writes:
>I received my September copy of "Scouting" Magazine on 8/18.
>There is a full page, 3 column article stating National Policy. It is
>GOOD reading about where BSA stands. In effect it states that BSA has
>particular policies, has had them for over 80 years, and that these
>policies will not change. Yes, it will exclude particular people from
>being a part of BSA, but that is the way it is. No comprimise, no
>excuses. 

Interesting.  Did the Boy Scouts let in blacks 80 years ago?  If not, then
Boy Scouts policies of excluding particular people _have_ changed.
--
I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the writings of Socrates.
    -- Ed Nilges

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Reply-To: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:56:19 GMT

In article <hay.714355445@shannon>, hay@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Angus Hay) writes:
|> In <1992Aug19.150509.6963@bnr.ca> brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner) writes:
|> 

[...]

|> South Africa's is:

[...]

|> What about the Scout Law? We have ten, which we think are the
|> usual ones, summed up by:
|> 
|> Trusty, loyal and helpful,
|> Brotherly, courteous, kind,
|> Obedient, smiling and thrifty,
|> Clean in body and mind.

The U.S. Scout Law is (12 points):

A scout is...
	Trustworthy
	Loyal
	Helpful
	Friendly
	Courteous
	Kind
	Obedient
	Cheerful
	Thrifty
	Brave
	Clean
and	Reverent


This stuff is great.  Wonderful stuff for a scoutmaster's minute.  Any other
countries out there want to share their oath and law?

Jim Brunner
Eagle Scout
Asst Scoutmaster
T86, Richardson, TX
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Brunner - (brunner@bnr.ca)
All opinions are my own and have nothing whatsoever to do with BNR, NT,
NTI, Bell Canada, or any of the BCE corporations or affiliates.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: <None>
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:26:39 GMT

In article 5102@sj.nec.com, brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.185621.1@heroes> castaldi@heroes writes:
> >
[ text of castaldi deleted ]
> >
> 
[ text of G. Skillman deleted ]
 --


I have to agree with cataldi (the original poster) on this one.  There are
forums for discussing the material brought up by G. Skillman, but 
rec.scouting is not one of them.  Perhaps there is a need for a newsgroup
that discusses BSA policy.  This newgroup, however, is for the exchange of
BSA program ideas.  I'd like to see it return to that point.

-A Dietz
Eagle class of 1979
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: R1SCM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dr. Steven C. Myers)
Subject: enough!
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:14:09 GMT

I would like to see this discussion group concentrate on
the issues of running a scout unit.  I know that running my
troop has become a full-time job (so to speak) and I and all of
the many volunters on this net are reading rec.scouting and
looking for ideas on how to do our job better.  I do not want
discussion of membership and discrimination, etc. to crowd
the practical help and advice off the air.  It seems to me that
when some cross post to 3 and 4 other news groups it defeats the
purpose of the r.s group.  Keep the membership discussions going if
you wish, but stop the cross posting.
 
Also, I wish to echo the thoughts of others that as we approach
our busiest time of the year we might help each other with quite
practical ideas.
 
If you don't like the current dominate discussion.  (1) Don't read them and
(2) respond to the net with your questions and statements.
 
Steve Myers
Scoutmaster Troop 1, Akron, OH
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Subject: Re: BITNET Scouting mail list
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:08:53 GMT

On 12 Aug 92 12:45:50 GMT, rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) said:
> Nntp-Posting-Host: albert.cs.gmr.com

> I remember hearing about a Scouting mail list on BITNET.
> Can anyone tell me more about this and how to get hooked up
> from Internet?
>
> (while the ongoing dicussions of BSA and cultural diversity
> are useful in the long run, I would also like some discussion
> of more immediately practical topics like camping techniques,
> outings suggestions, advancement procedures, etc.)

Send a message to LISTSERV@TCUBVM.bitnet with one line in the text
of the message:

	subscribe SCOUTS-L 

There are ongoing discussions of BSA and cultural diversity there
as well, but they tend to be a bit more restrained.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: slice@gagme.chi.il.us (Steve Steiner)
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
Originator: slice@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:14:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.193749.18092@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
>>>Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.
>
>As a Troop Committee member, one of my concerns is smoothing the
>transition from 5th grade Webelos to the Troop.  Over the past
>few years, the 5th graders have been woefully unprepared, to the
>point that we need to retest the boys on everything that they were
>supposed to have done to get the Arrow of Light (e.g., we can tolerate
>a bit of fumbling over the Scout Law, but when they get bogged down
>on "trustworthy", there's a problem).
>
>How have other Troops and 5th grade Webelos Dens worked together?  Also,
>in what month do you have crossover (or do the boys finish the year
>with the pack and not join the Troop until the start of 6th grade)?

In our pack, the boys are given the choice of going on to the scout troop
after they recieve thir Arrow of Light.  But the offical crossover ceremony
is held in April.  This is where all the boys are 'Officialy' moved up one
rank (i.e. Tigers are inducted into the pack, wolves get their bear book
and scarf, and bears get their weblos scarf and book, and the 5th graders
crossover, and so as not to forget the first year weblos going on to their
second, we give them the World Brotherhood of Scouting patch).  And except
for one year, all the 5th grade boys wait till April to go into the scout
troops.



-- 
Steve Steiner             Preferred address   | Telephone: (708)860-2754 (home)
slice@gagme.chi.il.us   slice@seswho.chi.il.us|            (708)773-5864 (work)
If the elevator to success is out of order... |   Address: 564 Gilbert Drive 
Use the stairs                                |            Wood Dale IL 60191
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:15:08 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner) writes:

> |> the Scout promise as we in Australia know it is as follows,
> |> On my honour,
> |> I promise that I will do my best,
> |> To do my duty to my God and
> |> To the Queen of Australia,
> |> To help other people,and
> |> To live by the Scout Law.
>
> Interesting.  In the U.S. it is (please excuse punctuation):
>
> On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty,
> to God and my country,
> to help other people at all times,
> to keep myself physically fit, mentally awake, and
> morally straight.

That's the Boy Scout version. The Girl Scouts have:
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
to help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

I find the wording interesting. Is it only the BSA that has the "morally
straight" bit? Maybe that's part of their problem with gays.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
From: gt6065a@prism.gatech.EDU (Clifford Edgar Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: American Flag Disposal
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:37:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In <1992Aug18.152449.21973@uceng.UC.EDU> jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU (Joseph Combs) writes:

>In cleaning out the storage shed where I work my boss found a couple of
>tattered old American flags. She asked if our troop could take care of 
>disposing of them in a fit manner.  Is there anyone out there who could 
>either post or e-mail me the proper procedure for destroying an American
>flag ?

>                                            Thanks,
>					      Joe

  In our troop, we had a special campfire ceremony in which the flag--which
had outlived its glory--was torn into strips (each strip was either a red or
white stripe or the blue field which was kept in its entirety).  As the 
Scoutmaster cut the flag, he explained--or reemphasized what the Scouts 
should already know--about the meaning of each part of the flag (symbolism,
etc.).  Each piece of the flag was handed to a scout.  After a period of 
"meditation", or simply time to think about the meaning of Old Glory, the
scouts tossed his piece of the flag into the fire.  Also in this type of 
ceremony lies the opportunity to discuss some of the history of the flag.
The entire ceremony is done in a very respectful way, although the Scout-
master had to explain to some of the younger scouts in more detail that 
the ceremony is not a desecration.  I'm not sure, but I think that there 
may be some kind of ceremony outlined in "Woods Wisdom" (?) or some other
book which outlines different ceremonies and activities.
  I think the net would benefit from other input about types of ceremonies 
that others have performed in their troops.

Cliff

-- 
Clifford Edgar Johnson
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6065a
Internet: gt6065a@prism.gatech.edu
From: frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: American Flag Disposal
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:05:02 GMT
Reply-To: frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I think it might be fitting to fold the flag and keep it in a trophy case if
your troop has one, especially if the flag has some sort of relationship with the troop.

Mentioned previously was the act of saying the pledge of allegiance before 
commiting the flag to the flames. Nice touch! How about repeating the pledge
to a new flag after the old one has burned to ash. Sort of like welcoming the new flag or as a reminder that the old flag has gone but the pledge still goes on.

All this from a 'True Brit.'

Simon
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: BITNET Scouting mail list
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:45:50 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

I remember hearing about a Scouting mail list on BITNET.

Can anyone tell me more about this and how to get hooked up
from Internet?

(while the ongoing dicussions of BSA and cultural diversity
are useful in the long run, I would also like some discussion
of more immediately practical topics like camping techniques,
outings suggestions, advancement procedures, etc.)

		Bob Haar
		Chartered Organization Representative,  Troop and Pack 188
		Ojibwa District, Clinton Valley Council. BSA
		Rochester Hills, Michigan


---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dsugar@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dave Sugar)
Subject: Re: Scoutin past
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:25:19 GMT

In article <14069@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz) writes:
>
>
>
>Well, I'm amused with the discussion (actually I'm bored with it now).
>Do not get me wrong, I think there are a lot of good points being
>made, and some good sharing of ideas.  I would like this group to be
>more.  For me, I'm no longer a scout, but have fond memories scouting,
>and would not mind hearing about other people's experiences.
>
>I think serious discussion is good, but must be balanced.
>
>So what memories would I liked shared.  Well, I know that hazing is
>baned from scouting in general.  And I do not approve of it, but as a
>scout there was always some light hazing going on.  Here is some of
>the hazing I remember
>
>Walking from campsite to campsite looking for a left handed
>smoke shifter (a classic) or 1000 ft of shore line

[stuff deleted..]

Actually I remember at one camporee there was a scout from a different troop
came looking for a left handed smoke shifter and we had one for him.  (We
have a very excentric (sp??) scoutmaster)  But anyway, it was really kinda
funny because I was friendly with the scoutmaster of the other troop and
couldn't beleive that the scout had actually found one..

Anyway, it was just a piece of old water hose with a handle that could only
be used with your left hand.  I don't know why any scout would go looking
for them..

  Dave Sugar
  dsugar@nyx.cs.du.edu
  udsugar@mcs.drexel.edu