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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:59:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

From: Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
  Let me put it this way:  Most bullets fired from guns do not end up
lodged in the brain of a human being, but no human being in his or her
right mind is going to lean into the path of a bullet on the strength of
that fact.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I can only assume you have no idea what you are writing.
Hopefully, the anology below will make it clear.

Let me put it this way: Most cars driving on streets do not end up
lodged in the dashboard of YOUR car, but no human being in his or her
right mind is going to drive on car pathways on the strength of
that fact.

So we can safely assume that you don't drive a car ever?

SURELY you don't think that airbags and "safer" belts are REALLY
safe?  They have a FAILURE rate!  Even if ONE fails, how can you
POSSIBLY risk severe injury and death by getting into your
car every day?
I'd like to point out that driving a car is MUCH more dangerous
than sex, and how most Christians have no problem with "safe
driving", rather than being "chaste" and not driving at all.

RELATIVE risk.  If you don't understand the concept, read
Michael Fumento's book.

I can't understand how you can get into your car every day,
knowing how you are encouraging your children to emulate your
life-threatening suicidal behavior.

Darryl at TCU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:07:00 EDT
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From:         JHART@UMASSD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Children/blessing

Hi Carol;
        Amen to that!  I have 5 married children, 9
grandchildren, and we just adopted a 2 1/2 year old little boy.
We are in the process of adopting his three sisters also.  You
are right, children are a blessing from the Lord.  These are His
children and when we reach out to them, God blesses our lives.
They are #1 in my life.  A home is just a house without the
patter of little feet.  It's children that make a house a home. I
can't recall where the Bible says they are a blessing but I know
I have read it.
        Being a mother is *the* most important job you could ever
do.  The world would have you believe it is your *right* to do
your own thing, but the things we do for God are the only things
which will last.

John Hart
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:44:33 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality
              8 Apr 1992 12:40:56 EST from <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>

Regarding evolution:

Amen, Ian!  I knew there was a reason I liked you.  Just wait, though.
You're gonna get jumped for that one.  But I think you can handle it.
                                      Love and Peace,
                                                      ---Kerry
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 08:26:34 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Shareware Bible

List Folk:
Picked up something interesting at a discount house this weekend (don't
worry; it's not contagious.  joke.).  Thought someone might be interested.
It's called "WordWorker" and it is the New Testament on 2 Disks with a
pretty good concordance and the capacity to do linked-word searches.  My
only problem with it is that I can't seem to get the pop-up menu part
to work through my word processing system.  Probably my own ingnorance,
though.  Anyway, it's ShareWare, part of the PC-SIG library and it's
$12 ($6 per disk, as are all ShareWare disks, apparently; you can get
7 disks of the KJV for $42 as well).  Watch out for one thing, though.
The notes provided are by The Way International, which is a cult.  However,
the text itself is plain old KJV, the genuine article.
                                                      Love INC,
                                                               ---Kerry
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:41:44 EDT
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer Request Update

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

I had requested prayer for my brother-in-law because he had enlarged
lymph nodes very symptomatic of the kind of cancer my sister (his wife)
had.

It turned out to be toxoplasmosis, or cat scratch fever.  He was very
ill, but after treatment is doing much better now.  We have learned
quite a bit about the illness as a result of his coming down with it
(mostly through our own study, because doctors don't know that much about
it).  It is very rare for humans to become as ill as he became, and it is
commonly associated with immune system disorders such as AIDS.  That caused
us quite a scare, since my sister had her transfusion (from which she
had already caught hepatitis) in 1978, before HIV testing.  However, my
brother-in-law tested HIV negative, and although my sister has not got
her results back yet, she has tested negative in the past.

The bad part of the whole thing is that Wayne will never know how he
caught the illness.  It is called cat scratch fever because the organisms
reproduce in the intestines of cats, but all warm-blooded mammals can
be carriers.  If you handle uncooked meat that is infected or eat
undercooked meat, you can still catch it without ever going near a cat.
My sister does have housecats, both of which tested negative, as did
their dogs.  They live on a farm, and so my brother-in-law helps butcher
beef and pigs, so he could have caught it that way.  But they also live
in the mountains and hunt, so butchering an infected deer or other animal
could have also been the source.  He'll never know.

The moral of the story:  Cook all meat you eat well, and don't use the
microwave (especially for things like bacon).  When you handle raw
meat, wash your hands immediately.  I always thought cat scratch fever
was sort of a joke.  But Wayne was extremely ill.  It is no joke, and it
can be particularly devastating to an unborn fetus.  So if you're pregnant,
don't go near the cat litter box.

Brenda
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 07:49:00 EST
From:         "Jeff Sinatra" <BSC92SPA18@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jeff Sinatra and children of wrath
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

The Nuzz,

N>We were talking about being made in God's image, not about immortality.

To me, God's image and likeness is immortal.  Because God is immortal, so is
His expression.

N>Perfect is how we were created, but that perfection, the lack of a bend
N>towards sin, left man with the Fall.

True perfection cannot be "bent," as I have been trying to communicate with
Roy.  If perfection can be bent, then it was never perfect in the first place.
Can a mathmatical principle be perfect today, but then "fall" and not be
tomorrow?  Our perfection is derived from God, it is not some personal
possesion that we can change.  To say that this perfection can be made
imperfect is to say that God's perfection, and even God Himself, is not wholly
perfect.

N>The Greek word, telios (and teleioi in the second instance), translated here
N>as "perfect," means complete.

The man of God's creating is perfect, or complete, but the mortal man is
imperfect, or incomplete.  The part of man that is incomplete, lacking
something, is the mortal man.  This mortal man is nothing because it is the
lack of immortality, for when immortality is brought to light in mortal
consciousness, mortality becomes less mysterious and is eventually dropped for
the immortal nature.  immortality is a quality of God's allness, and mortality
is derived from the nothingness of matter--the incompleteness of matter.
Immortality is Truth, and mortality is error, and when Truth appears error
ceases to exist--for, it is swallowed up in Truth.

N>I have no objection with mortal man being identified as the tares.  The tares
N>were planted by the enemy.

You seem to imply in your post that a tare can somehow become wheat??  To me,
this is impossible.  Every child, woman, and man have this "wheat", this
immortal nature, dwelling within them, and it needs to be brought out and
understood.  We need to cultivate this spiritual understanding in ourselves
as well as people who lack this practical wisdom.  This eternal nature can be
understood only through the teaching and demonstrations of Christ Jesus, for he
was the first to overcome death so clearly, thereby, proving man's immortality.

				love,
				  Jeff Sinatra
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:12:51 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Question Re:abortion

Lonnie:

Praise the Lord for your love of the child God has given you!  The world
could use more parents like you.
                                Love INC,
                                         ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:27:06 CDT
From:         JOY LOCKE <LOCKE@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      ***URGENT PRAYER REQUEST***

  Hi everyone!  It's Marcie again... I'm not back on the list, but I need
your prayers for some friends of mine.
  It seems that they have ticked off a warlock.  (I don't know the exact
term Tony used, but I think 'warlock' comes pretty close.)  Apparently
Carl (the warlock) is attacking them, trying to control them.  He has
already messed with Steina's dreams -- I don't know how, but I don't doubt
for a minute that he is into occultic stuff, most likely demons.  They are
fighting him and he doesn't like it.  Please pray for the binding of any
demons associated with Carl and the stuff he's into... also for the
protection of my friends Tony, Melanie, Steina, Debi, and any others I may
not know about that are being affected by this.
  I would also ask that you pray that my friends would not turn to 'other
sources' for help, but that they would turn to the one true God through His
Son, Jesus.... and that they would realize from this that He cares for them
and wants to save them.  (None of them are Christians as far as I know.)
  I appreciate any and all prayers... they have requested prayers from me,
my roommate and this list.  (You may have already gotten something from
G-Force concerning this.)  Thanks in advance... As I said, I'm not back on
the list, so any mail concerning this situation should be directed to my
personal e-mail address.

Marcie <Locke@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:22:42 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 4/9
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me."
"I am the Lord, and there is none else."
"Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God."
"I am the Lord; and there is none else."
"There is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside
Me.  Look unto ME, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God,
and there is none else."  (Isaiah 45: 5,6,14,18,21,22)

"I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and
shall not return, That UNTO ME EVERY KNEE shall bow, EVERY TONGUE shall swear."
 (Isaiah 45:23)

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him the name which is
above every name; That in the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that EVERY TONGUE
should confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, to the glory of God the Father."
(Phil. 2: 9 - 11)

"For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.  For it is written,
As I live, saith the Lord, EVERY KNEE shall bow to Me, and EVERY TONGUE shall
confess to God."  (Rom. 14: 10,11)

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
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Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:46:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Water Baptism

On Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:45:14 EST
Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> wrote:

>1.  What is your (your church's) belief about how baptism should be performed?
>    (immersion/sprinkling/other--I know there is at least one "other," but I
>    can't recall what it is right now.)

Immersion

>2.  What is your (your church's) belief about WHEN baptism is appropriate (at
>    what age or upon what evidence of faith?)

My church baptizes people who want it. (i.e. normally adults) The youngest
lad that I saw baptized was about 8, but during the baptismal service they
have to give their testimony and his was so clear...

>3.  Does your denomination baptize into the particular church/denomination
>    or into the body of Christ (the first requiring re-baptism upon a change
>    of denominations)?

Into the body of Christ (no re-baptism)

>4.  What is the baptismal ceremony like in your denomination/church/tradition/
>    whatever?  (i.e., are special clothes worn, is there a formulaic speech,
>    are guests expected to be present, etc.)

Almost normal service. Worship, prayer, sermon, baptism. After the
sermon the candidates slip away into two separate rooms (for men and
women) and put on bathing clothes and a white robe. Then they are asked
to give their testimonies and are then immersed successively. There is
no formulaic speech and everyone who likes to attend is invited. Before
we had a 'pool' in our new building we used to baptize at a nearby lake.
The meetings there (I am happy to having been baptized there) were still
more informal than today.

>Thanks for the input.

Thanks to everyone who contributed so far. It was very interesting!

Wolfgang
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:40:00 -0600
From:         DRAKE@ASUCP1.LA.ASU.EDU
Subject:      RE: Feminist theology/little god movement
X-To:         CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

[...]
>And, to be even-handed about it, I thought some of you might be interested in
>this, from a speech on self-esteem (what else?) by Robert Schuller:
>
>  "We will never truly understand the nature and character of our relationship
>    to God until we can comfortably say, 'Our Father, which art in heaven,
>    hallowed be _my_ name" (emphasis original).

         I read a quote attributed to Robert Schuller once that shocked me.
         He was said to have claimed that he though the greatest crime
         commited by christianity was emphasising the sinfulness of humanity.
         [This quote was found in _The Seduction of Christianity_, so you can
         make your own judgement as to its dependability.]

              Mark Drake
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:05:26 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death

Jeff:

I must disagree.  The Ethiopian eunuch of Acts 8 had come to Jerusalem
to worship.  There is no indication that the passage of Isaiah he was
reading was the only one he knew.  However, I do not believe that there
is anyification for  for putting off water baptism once one has been
born again.  In my own case, I knew I _had_ to be baptized quickl
because if not, the people and entities whose grasp I had escaped would
not leave me alone.  Once I had been baptized, they could no longer
torment me, because the confirmation was complete.  There is no
knowledge required for entry into the kingdom of GoH.  Gotta go.
It's storming and the computer's freaking out.  Love INC,
                                                         --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:38:00 EDT
From:         Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

I wrote:

JS> It still boils down to a form of "Russian roulette".

Darryl responded:

>     re: AIDS & sex
>     LIFE is a form of Russian Roulette.

A major difference, though, is that life is a _necessary_ risk.  We
don't have a choice in the matter.  Promiscuous sex, OTOH, under the
alleged "safety" of a condom, is an _unnecessary_ risk.

If I'm by nature in a risky situation _that_I_cannot_change_, then there's
nothing I can do to change the risk.  But it's lunacy (IMO) to unnecessarily
put myself in a risky situation that I can avoid.

>     Do we call safety belts "safer belts"?  Do we call permanent markers
>     "sort-of permanent" markers, because the ink will, after several
>     decades or more, wear away?  Why then this outrage by some people
>     over the term "safe sex"?

The difference is that in general, most people _know_ that "safety belts"
don't guarantee 100% safety against accidents.  There is no misinformation
in that situation.  But for the last 10 or 15 years, our society has been
_errantly_ taught that condoms are 100% effective against AIDS, etc.  This
is _misinformation_.

People have been taught that using a condom is like playing Russian roulette
with a _completely_unloaded_ gun.  But there's been a _BULLET_ in the
chamber all along, and most people don't know that!  _That's_ the difference.

>    I find your fear of AIDS a bit confusing.

Why are we talking about my emotions, Darryl?  I have no fear of AIDS.
There's no purpose served in being afraid.  I just do my best to not take
any unwarranted risks, and trust in God to direct my life as He wills it.
Please don't read between the lines.

>     Again: Life is a form of Russian Roulette.  Sex is just one
>     of the more SAFE activities in life.

There are millions of people who would vehemently disagree with you from
first-hand experience.  'Nuff said.

In Christ,
.------------------------v----------------------------------------------------.
| Jeff Shirton           | "Now it is God that has...given us the Spirit as a |
| shirton@McMaster.CA    |  deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."  2Cor.5:5 |
`------------------------^----------------------------------------------------'
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:45:20 EDT
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Intelligence (Was:Re: rally)

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

Darryl, you said to Kerry, "Studies show nonChristians tend to be more
 intelligent than Christians.  Not better.  Just more intelligent."

Did you perhaps mean more educated than more intelligent?  If you meant
more intelligent, I'd be interested to see that study.  Intelligence is
a relative thing anyway.  Everyone knows that IQ tests are only good for
allowing us to predict certain things (like how well one will do in
school, or how well one will be able to function in special education).
But beyond that, IQ tests don't mean a whole lot, and are biased toward
white middle-class culture.
But if you meant more educated, I can buy that quite easily.  But there
is a BIG difference.
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:50:00 EDT
From:         NWILSON@SMITH.BITNET
Subject:      Summer 1992

Hi All,
        I have yet another prayer request!
        I am going home this summer, for lack of more exciting plans. Last
summer wasn't very happy for me. Instead of getting to know all the new young
people, joining the choir, and working with the Sunday School, I was taken
aback by all the changes that had happened while I was away, and basically
stood on the outside of everything and didn't interact. Looking back, I
behaved like a child ("WAAAH! Life went on without me?!?!). But I guess
we all have the ability to regress from time to time.
        Anyway I realize that I feel threatened when I have to get to know
a large group of new people, especially when they all know each other well
and I don't know them or the way they do things. It's very intimidating to
me. However, I have given that over to the Lord, and have asked Him to
guide me this summer: what things I should get involved in, meeting the new
youth, not being afraid to put myself out, even though I am not well
acquainted with some of the new happenings in my church. I have asked Him
to help me not to be so aloof, but to go all out.
        Can you all please pray for these things, too? I really trust in
God's ability to change us and help us become more flexible. And that's
what this is basically about- my adapting to new situations in a church
that has been like my second home since I was an infant. This has been
on my mind lately, causing me worry, even though the Word tells us not
to be worried or anxious about anything. I really don't want to repeat
last summer, and praise God- HE KNOWS MY HEART!!!
        Thanks, all.
                Nicole
{NWILSON@SMITH.SMITH.EDU}
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 09:41:00 EST
From:         "Jeff Sinatra" <BSC92SPA18@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Kerry,
Christ Jesus did not die, because he rose his body from the dead.  His mortal
body was never alive, and therefore it could have not died.  Jesus' true
identity was unsen to the physical senses--as he said to Peter, "flesh and
blood hath not revealed this unto you..."  Peter saw the Christ, but it was not
Jesus' physicallity that made him the Christ, it was divinity, and this
divinity is not seen with the eyes.  To the physical senses Jesus died, but in
reality Jesus demonstrated that death is not a part of God's man.  Jesus' pure
consciousness was untouched by death, and this was demonstrated when he
overcame death.  For mortals this demonstration was the most important because
it proved beyond a shadow of a dought that man is immortal, and mortality is
a lie.  Everything Jesus did demonstrated man's immortality and perfection--his
mission was to demonstrate Truth, and this included destroying the belief in
death.
			love,
			  Jeff Sinatra
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