From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: Yet more unsubstantiated stuff from Nyikos
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 02:57:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.135348.12154@acd4.acd.com> wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck) writes:
> From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
> Message-ID: <1asimvINNj53@fido.asd.sgi.com>
> 
> In article <1992Oct5.190140.19923@acd4.acd.com>, 
>    wdo@TEFS1.acd.com writes: 
>    (Susan Garvin) writes: >
> >>> What purpose is served by repeating vile, unsubstantiated rumor 
> >>> about a dead young woman?  
> > 
> >> Perhaps it has something to do with her parents malicious anti-RTL 
> >> crusade.  
> >
> > Malicious?  You're despicable.  
> 
> Malicious.  I had the opportunity to see them first hand at ISU
> last year.  Malicious.  Waging a campaign of hostility and bit-
> terness against pro-lifers because of existing parental consent
> laws is sadly misguided.  And these people were malicious.

Now I am very confused.  Are you arguing, Bill, that parental
consent laws are not the product of the pro-life movement and
its agenda?

The Bells clearly believe that their daughter would be alive
today were it now for laws that left her believing she had no
choice (ah, but leaving women without an option is what pro-life
is about) but to attempt to perform an abortion on herself.
Certain I am that if their daughter was unable to discuss the
situation with them, then there was some problem within the
family as well.  And that is certainly sad.  And that is something
that they have to live with for the rest of their lives.  But
if someone versed in psychology can lack understanding for these
people, well, that leaves me confused.   I don't have a degree
in psychology and only a few courses and maybe half a dozen
books under my belt, but I can understand their feelings
with or without the training to do so.  And I can certainly see
why they would feel bitter and angry towards the pro-life
contingent that worked to create laws that handed their daughter
death.
> 
> > This family lost their daughter because of a parental consent 
> > law.  
> 
> Right.  And when my son was nearly killed by an automobile at 
> age 7, it was those awful traffic laws that did it.  It had
> nothing to do with the fact that we should have been watching
> him more closely.

That's just stupid.  I don't know the details of your son's accident,
but the traffic laws don't, for example, require that children run
in front of cars, or that cars exceed the speed limit.  WHat the
parental consent laws did was make a desperate young girl more
desperate.
> 
> > They were devastated, and they don't want other parents to 
> > suffer the way they did.  They campaign against the law that 
> > killed their daughter, and you call them malicious.  You dis-
> > agree, so you dismiss their work as "political expediency".  
> 
> Sorry, CJ.  I was there.  I heard them.  There were (perhaps)
> five pro-lifers in a room of ~200, sitting quietly in the back.  
> We made no noise, we made no rude gestures, we made no faces.  
> We just sat there listening.  But someone apparently identified 
> us to Karen Bell who, for at least five minutes, treated us to 
> a hateful discourse that blamed *us* for her daughter's death.

That is not at all responsive to what CJ said.
> 
> > You know no compassion.
> 
> And apparently you know no Bells.  But I know malice when I 
> see it.

And do you at least understand why?  How about pain and suffering
when it is felt by others like, for instance, the Bells?  You saw
their malice, but did you notice by any chance their hurt?

Didn't you just post, in mock Kaflowitz tradition,
A man sees what he wants to see
And disregards the rest
???
> 
> > Fuck off & die, Overpeck.
> 
> Hmm.  I guess your objections to needless deaths don't extend
> to men, huh?

Aw, now, she didn't say "Fuck off and die, all men."

CJ, would y'all want little old me to fuck off and die needlessly?

I think, and I apologize if I got this wrong, she was talking
to you, Bill.

Dean Kaflowitz
Newsgroups: talk.abortion