HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: *All Star Game 1993*
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<OLIVER.93Jan9124724@ballard1.mit.edu>
	<1993Jan10.234608.24403@cheshire.oxy.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:46:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.234608.24403@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) wrote:
> Beef:  I'd 
> even as a Sonics fan, I'm not 100% sure if I'd pick Payton, though
> he certainly deserves consideration.

Well, I *had* to put a Sonic on there.  Kemp would be a better choice, but
(1) I'd have to remove two forwards from the list I have, and put another
guard on there, and (2) I'd have to take Sean Elliott off the list.  You
know I wasn't going to do that.
__________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: opinions sought about GS trade rumor
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:34:34 GMT

In article <lkrbbgINNii3@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, kracht@farout.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Kracht) writes:
|> To Warriors' followers:
|> 
|> Did anyone else hear or read about the rumor/report that Mike Dunleavy
|> offered Don Nelson to trade Frank Brickowski for Chris Gatling straight up, 
|> and Nellie *refused*?  If true, I'm a bit surprised, given 
|>   (1) the way Nelson blasts Gatling and generally discounts his performance
|>       in interviews
|>   (2) the fact that Brickowski is currently doing quite well on a team 
|>       *without* any Mullin- or Hardaway-like stars to surround him, scoring
|>       in the high teens to nearly 20 pts. a game
|> What do you supposed turned him off to this trade?  Brickowski's age,
|> inflated salary, or slow-footedness?  The fact that the Ws don't need 
|> that much scoring from the center, just rebounding and shotblocking?  Or
|> do you think Nellie sees much more potential in Gatling than he's willing
|> to admit in public?
|> 
|> Curious for opinions.
|> 
|> Jim K.
|> 


I think you pretty much answered your own question, Jim.  All those weaknesses
you mentioned about Brickowski would turn anybody off.  And it's not
true that the Warriors don't need scoring from the center spot -- they
are in desparate need of low-post scoring.  They are actually getting
enough rebounding now.  Also, despite Nelson's public and vocal
criticisms of Gatling, he still believes in his potential.  Gatling
has been playing much better of late. e.g. last night he scored 19 points
and had 10 boards against Miami.

				terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
From: dougs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Steele)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:31:58 GMT
Subject: Team Standings and Stats
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Doug Christie
Date: 9 Jan 1993 02:08:16 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu

In article <1993Jan9.041523.22011@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) writes:
>In article <1ildovINNbcv@sumax.seattleu.edu> davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat) writes:
>
>>but Pierce still is the only
>>guy on the Sonic team that can create a shot when there is no shot available,
>
>     Hmm, what about Eddie Johnson?


	It is true that EJ has some ability to drive to the hoop and finish
with some interesting one-handed running shots, creating with his own
dribble, but this really didn't become evident before last year. Whether this
is new for EJ, I can't say not having watched him his whole career. But, it
is something "new" over the last four or five years. However, EJ is still best 
shooting off screens and picks. He still operates best spotting up for
open jumpers and catching and shooting, rather than creating his own shot
with the dribble. I would have to say, if a team wanted to take away his 
dribble, they could do it fairly easily, EJ's not a great ball handler, whereas
Pierce has the knack of plowing into the paint and getting the shot off and/or
drawing a foul.

>
>>Benjamin can be used as a
>>protector of the paint area, blocking player's shots face up.Twice this season
>>I have seen him all alone under the hoop facing a fast-breaking opponent
>>intent on dunking the ball (Vernon Maxwell in the early season for one, can't
>>recall the other) and Benjamin rejected the dunk attempt. If you want a
>>intimdiator patrolling the paint, Benjamin is the only Sonic who can do this.
>
>     True enough.  However Benjamin in a similar situation became Laker
>highlight fodder when Anthony Peeler grabbed a long offensive rebound and 
>drove the lane and slam dunked on Benjamin.  This was more of a great
>play by Peeler than a bad play than Benjamin however.


	Yeah, I remember that one, it was when the Lakers visited Seattle
early in the season, it was a pretty fine dunk. If I recall proper, Benjamin
was backpedaling on that one, Peeler was in the air before Benjamin could set,
and boom. Still, with regard to Benjamin, my feeling is if Portland can find
27 minutes a game for Kevin Duckworth, Seattle can find 20-25 minutes for
Benjamin. If you've seen some of his boxscores the last few weeks, (not counting
the ones he was out with injury) the minute totals are ridiculous - 7 minutes
against the T-Wolves, 5 minutes against Golden State. Whatever one thinks of
Benjamin's skills, that seems awfully low to me.


>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  |__	       o
>  | W			   Mike Tamada
>		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
>		   \O	   Occidental College
>		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
>		   /|
>		  | |



				David L. Yee
			email to:davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mark@tc.fluke.COM (Mark D. Nagel)
Subject: Re: Warriors big men
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:05:22 GMT

In <1993Jan7.023619.20406@leland.Stanford.EDU> terry@leland.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:

>Byron Houston is the best bet on the Warriors at becoming an enforcer.
>He is already the team's best low-post defensive player and has guarded
>big guys like Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaquille O'Neal well.  It would be nice

I agree here. I was impressed with his recent play against Seattle. This guy
is strong and quick. He'll probably become a very good player and an important
part of the Warriors' team.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tsaim@ecf.toronto.edu (TSAI MING CHANG)
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:25:35 GMT

In article <C0nIBA.H1B@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> cliu@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (chang hsu liu) writes:
>I'd like to add more questions:
>
>1) Does tipin count as one rebound too? If it doesn't go in,
>and the player tip 3 times more to get it in, will it be counted
>as three more rebounds?
>
>2) How does people count the assist? If the guard passed a beautiful
>ball to the center but the center didn't make it, wil it be counted
>as one assist. I gues no. How about the situation that the same 
>center get fouled and he make both? What if he make none? Will it
>still count as no assist? It's not fair to me if count as none. 
>What if he make just one instead of two?
>
>As for Steve's questions:
>
>1) When a shot is blocked, does it count as a Field Goal Attempt?
>Yes
>
>3) Do blocked shots and steals count as turnovers. If not, what does
>constitute a turnover.
>
>If the ball doesn't touch the board on offense but go back to the
>defense end, it's counted as turnovers. So, it depends on whether
>the blocked shots and steals happens before or after the ball touches
>the board first. I may be wrong, though.
>
>Peter Liu
>cliu@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: trump@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Jason Lewis)
Subject: Re: INSIDE SPORTS poll: best players by
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 23:57:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.224721.17359@unislc.uucp> gsd@unislc.uucp (Greg Dodd) writes:
>Harry states:
>
>>This looks more like a list of player names based on how visible they are.
>
>Nice try but your wrong! look at the list again and you will see that 
>Stockton is the top PG, and Malone is the top PF.
>
>You know that they play for the Jazz, who happen to have the NBA's smallest 
>franchise market. So your arguement about visablity does have any ground to
>stand on.
>
>On the other hand the NBA must address these issues of getting the leagues
>best PF & PG increased exposure. It's a shame to know that the Jazz will
>only be on national TV 4 times all season.
>
It should be pointed out here, of course, that visibility doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with TV market.

In addition, it should also be pointed out that being on the Dream Team affords
a player slightly more visibility than most others.

And to add my own comments on a different subject...someone earlier posted the
current (at the time) voting for Eastern All-Star center.  There seem to be
about 28,000 really dense people out there as of the voting time...I mean,
Cartwright as an All-Star?  This year?

- Mike Lewis
trump@leland.stanford.edu
trump@gagme.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sheth@cs.iastate.edu (Divyesh K sheth)
Subject: Re: What statistics are in the BOXSCORES
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:52:54 GMT

davidr@cs.anu.edu.au (David RAJARATNAM) writes:

>Sorry to waste space but I'm new to all this  and I was wondering if 
>someone could tell me what the abreviations for the statistics in the 
>BOXSCORES mean.
>This is what I think they mean, correct my where I'm wrong;

>min - minutes played
>fgm - field goals made	
>fga - field goals attempted
>3m - 3 pointers made
>3a - 3 pointers attempted
>ftm - free throws made
>fta - free throws attempted
>or - offensive rebounds
>tr - total rebounds       *****************
>as - assists
>pf - (no idea)  personal fouls **************
>st - steals
>to - (no idea)  turnovers **************
>bk - blocks
>tc - (no idea)  Technical fouls(?) ***************
>ej - (no idea)  Ejections ********************


>ff - (no idea)  Flagrent Fouls ************
>pts - points

>		Thanks in advance,
>			-Dave, A long distance NBA fan.
>  



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Divyesh Sheth                 |       Office:                      |
|                                 |       CNDE,                        |
|   307-A, Westgate Hall          |       226, ASC II,                 |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: neuharth@shelley.u.washington.edu (John Neuharth)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Duckworth vs Benjamin (was Re: Eddie Johnson and Benoit Benjamin)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 08:45:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan11.043419.2851@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) writes:
>In article <1iqdt8INNbne@shelley.u.washington.edu> neuharth@shelley.u.washington.edu (John Neuharth) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Jan10.233647.24126@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) writes:
>
>>>     One difference though between Portland and Seattle is that Portland

blah blah

>>
>>I honestly don't see your point.  I would say that Portland and Seattle are

blah blah

>     In contrast, if Karl decides not to use Benjamin at all, which
>he pretty much has, the Sonics can still fully fill out the frontcourt
>slots.  Cage can play center almost 30 minutes a game; the other 18-20
>minutes can be filled by Kemp.  This means Kemp can only play maybe
>12-16 minutes at power forward -- but McKey can fill that power forward
>gap.  But then who plays small forward?  Eddie Johnson and Vincent Askew!
>And Nate McMillan if necessary.
>     The Blazers have good depth and versaility in the frontcourt; I
>think the Sonics have more.  In particular, the Blazer go with 3 1/2
>big men:  Duckworth, Williams, Robinson, and Bryant.  If they tried 
>to do what Seattle has done, and reduce their center's minutes to
>near 0, they'd either have to radically increase Bryant's minutes or
>go with some tiny lineups with Kersey playing a lot of power forward.
>Duckworth would have to play really horrible ball to make that a
>more desirable alternative than giving him his 20-30 minutes at center.
>     In contrast, Seattle has 4 big men:  Benjamin, Cage, Kemp, 
>and McKey.  If George Karl decides to bench Benjamin, the Sonics
>big trio can fully man the 2 power positions.

Got it...I guess I can't argue much w/their success!

-John

neuharth@u.washington.edu
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: *All Star Game 1993*
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:05:51 GMT
Organization: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine...
NNTP-Posting-Host: halcyon.aero.org

In article <1ifpn3INNpij@shelley.u.washington.edu> tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:
|
|		west: karl malone, charles barkeley, chris mullen,
|		      tim hardaway, john stockton, clyde drexler,
|		      david robinson, hakeem olajuwan, james worthy(?),
|		      gary payton(?),

Instead of Worthy & Payton, could we have Sedale Threatt & Danny Manning?

|      * no magic johnson this time, right?  /tt300zx

You never know.........

|        p.s. by the way, did michael jordan and isiah thomas missed
|	     their shots ON PURPOSE against magic johnson in the
|	     all-star game last year? 

Of COURSE they did. And they were successful -  as opposed to Magic,
who tried desperately to miss three straight 3 pointers, but failed
dismally.

			R.S.
From: cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Points Per Possession
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:01:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

You may recall a brief discussion on this newsgroup recently about
"points per possession" as a better measure of team offense and team
defense than points per game.

I went ahead and calculated these stats.  Unfortunately, exact
statistics are not available for "possessions," so I used a crude
approximation based on available statistics.  (It's not meaninful to
carry the results out to four digits past the decimal point, as I do
below, but that was the only way to break certain ties.)  The statistics
used are taken from Doug Steele's article of 6 Jan 93 23:36:58 GMT.


Summary:

Dallas is utterly pathetic.  Not only do they rank dead last in both
categories, they're not even close to second-worst in either
category.

On the other end of the spectrum, Seattle is in the top three in
both categories.

New York utterly blows away the competition in team defense.  The
difference between 1st and 2nd in defense is greater than the
difference between 2nd and 19th.  However, their offense is
terrible-- only Minnesota, Denver, and Dallas fare worse.

Phoenix (21-4) ranks #1 in team offense (just edging Cleveland), but
an unimpressive #14 in team defense.  (But #3 in free-throw
defense.  Phoenix opponents shoot .718 from the line.  Only Utah
and Indiana hold their opponents to a poorer percentage from the
line.  :^)  Seattle opponents have made more free throws than they
have attempted-- better look into that, Doug.)



Team Offense (points per possession):

1	1.0933	PhoenixSuns
2	1.0873	ClevelandCavaliers
3	1.0816	SeattleSupersonics
4	1.0761	ChicagoBulls
5	1.0692	SanAntonioSpurs
6	1.0671	GSWarriors
7	1.0558	UtahJazz
8	1.0544	IndianaPacers
9	1.0445	CharlotteHornets
10	1.0400	SacramentoKings
11	1.0390	OrlandoMagic
12	1.0378	PortlandTrailBlazers
13	1.0359	LALakers
14	1.0351	HoustonRockets
15	1.0328	LAClippers
16	1.0323	BostonCeltics
17	1.0316	NJNets
18	1.0269	MiamiHeat
19	1.0133	AtlantaHawks
20	1.0090	DetroitPistons
21	1.0071	WashingtonBullets
22	1.0070	MilwaukeeBucks
23	0.9992	Philadelphia76ers
24	0.9897	NYKnicks
25	0.9880	MinnesotaT-wolves
26	0.9824	DenverNuggets
27	0.9349	DallasMavericks



Team Defense (opponents' points per possession):

1	0.9353	NYKnicks
2	0.9916	SeattleSupersonics
3	0.9949	PortlandTrailBlazers
4	1.0086	DetroitPistons
5	1.0090	OrlandoMagic
6	1.0092	SanAntonioSpurs
7	1.0167	LAClippers
8	1.0196	UtahJazz
9	1.0198	ChicagoBulls
10	1.0215	MilwaukeeBucks
11	1.0266	LALakers
12	1.0304	NJNets
13	1.0313	ClevelandCavaliers
14	1.0327	PhoenixSuns
15	1.0332	SacramentoKings
16	1.0376	HoustonRockets
17	1.0384	MiamiHeat
18	1.0455	BostonCeltics
19	1.0468	CharlotteHornets
20	1.0484	IndianaPacers
21	1.0569	AtlantaHawks
22	1.0600	DenverNuggets
23	1.0627	GSWarriors
24	1.0644	Philadelphia76ers
25	1.0660	MinnesotaT-wolves
26	1.0665	WashingtonBullets
27	1.1162	DallasMavericks



I hope you found this fascinating.  If there is sufficient interest,
I'll update this every now and then, when Doug posts updated stats.

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@leland.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Warriors big men
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 04:43:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.030227.11740@muddcs.claremont.edu>, byau@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ben Yau) writes:


|> 
|> Latrell Spreewell is a really awesome player.  I saw him for the first time 
|> at the Sonics game.  He is for real.  Nice Jordanesque moves and a ggood outside
|> touch (at least in that game, but one game does not a player make :)
|> 

Actually, last night was a fairly typical game for him.  There have other
games where he has shot better.

					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ortcm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (thomas.mcguigan)
Subject: BOXSCORE njn30orl26.05jan93
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:04:27 GMT


njn 102, orl 99   05jan93

dnp: orl - green,litterial(cd)
           kerr,steve(cd)
           turner,jeff(cd)
illegal defense warnings: njn,orl
technical fouls: CDaly(3:06 1st)

njn (17-13)      min  fgm fga 3m 3a ftm fta or tr  as pf st to bk tc ej ff  pts
coleman,derrick   42  10  18   0  1   8  9   4 16   3  4  2  2  4  0  0  0   28
morris,chris      37   3  12   0  0   2  3   3  6   0  1  2  3  0  0  0  0    8
bowie,sam         28   2   8   0  0   1  2   0  3   0  3  1  0  1  0  0  0    5
petrovic,drazen   41  10  17   1  3   8  9   1  2   3  5  0  5  0  0  0  0   29
anderson,kenny    42   5  16   0  1   3  3   2  6  10  1  0  2  0  0  0  0   13
george,tate        4   0   4   0  1   0  0   0  1   2  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    0
robinson,rumeal    9   2   7   1  2   0  0   0  0   1  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    5
dudley,chris      20   1   2   0  0   3  6   6 10   0  6  2  0  0  0  0  0    5
mahorn,rick        4   0   0   0  0   0  0   0  0   0  2  0  0  1  0  0  0    0
brown,chucky      13   3   6   0  0   3  6   2  4   0  3  0  0  0  0  0  0    9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
njn totals       240  36  90   2  8  28 38  18 48  19 26  7 13  6  0  0  0  102
FG, 3P, FT averages:     .400   .250   .737       team rebs 13
procedure technicals 1, bench technicals: CDaly

orl (13-13)      min  fgm fga 3m 3a ftm fta or tr  as pf st to bk tc ej ff  pts
tolbert,tom       29   4   8   0  1   0  0   2  8   1  3  1  2  0  0  0  0    8
scott,dennis      26   4  12   1  4   2  4   0  1   2  2  1  3  0  0  0  0   11
o'neal,shaquille  38  12  19   0  0   5 11   6 12   0  6  0  1  5  0  0  0   29
anderson,nick     42   6  17   0  3   2  2   0  6   6  2  0  2  2  0  0  0   14
skiles,scott      48   5  13   1  2   2  3   0  6  12  2  0  3  0  0  0  0   13
royal,donald      22   3   8   0  0   4  6   1  2   1  3  0  1  0  0  0  0   10
catledge,terry    19   2   2   0  0   4  6   1  3   0  6  0  3  0  0  0  0    8
kite,greg         10   0   0   0  0   0  0   1  5   0  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    0
bowie,anthony      6   2   4   0  0   2  2   0  0   0  3  0  1  0  0  0  0    6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
orl totals       240  38  83   2 10  21 34  11 43  22 28  2 17  7  0  0  0   99
FG, 3P, FT averages:     .458   .200   .618       team rebs 18

njn   23  20  35  24  -  102
orl   23  23  30  23  -   99

attendance 15151, time 2:25, officials: JNies,RNunn,DStafford
From: trit@pase60.Convergent.Com (Tri Tran)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Warriors need an attitude...
Keywords: 89 Detroit Pistons..
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:14:52 GMT
Distribution: usa


Being a Warriors fan for a long time now, I find it more frustrating to
watch this team now than the good old days of Joe barely Care, Tellis
Frank... At least we know that the team in those years were BAD. Now, if
only this year's team can develop an attitude.
I remember when Charles Barkley first came to the Phoenix Suns, he'd
said-paraphrasing: This team is good already,what it needs now to win a
championship is AN ATTITUDE. This is what the Warriors need as well.

Comparing this year's Warriors team with the 1989 Detroit Pistons team,
Hardawayis playing just as well if not better than IT, abeit not as good in
the clutch. Dennis Rodman - if he's a 10 on the scale, hen Tyrone Hill
could be a 7, Mullin is far better than Mark Arguire (both offensive and
defensively) Marciulionis is the same as Vinnie Johnson coming off the
bench. Now IF:
   Alexander, who's roughly the same height, good shooter from the outside
like Bill Liambeer, can play defense and have an attitude like him. I don't
care for Liambeer that much either, but I'll be the first one to tell you
that the guy is a competitor, good position defender, and great rebounder
for a slow w.... man. If only Alexander can be like him...
  And find a consistent outside shooter/defender like Joe Dumar. Who's on
the trading block now that even come close?... Can Sprewell ever develop in
to a 20 PPG 2 guard?

So you see, the Warriors actually need a little man!

Later,
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro