HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan)
Subject: Looking for Paper on Andrew and UNIX
Reply-To: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan)
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:16:56 GMT


I'm hoping someone can help me track down a paper I enjoyed reading
around 1986 or so. It dealt with the problems the Andrew developers met
when building on top of Berkeley UNIX. It included a lot of useful
design criteria they developed to, for example, avoid exhausting
resources inside the UNIX kernel, etc.  (A similarly useful paper came
out of the SPRITE project at Berkeley as well, BTW.)

I've been through all the papers available via FTP on
emsworth.andrew.cmu.edu, and neither those papers nor anything
referenced in their bibliographies ring a bell (although Morris, "Make
or Take" is close).  I've WAISed around the usual tech-report sources
to no avail. And I spent an evening rummaging around in my hardcopy
files and journals at home (hey, I'm desperate!).

Any pointers anyone can provide would be appreciated. Please email
responses to jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu. Thanks in advance!

--
John Sloan              "Since I've given up hope,        +1 303 497 1243
NCAR/SCD                   I feel much better."       Fax +1 303 497 1137
Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA                            jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu
Logical Disclaimer:  belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
From: tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com (Todd Inglett)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Finalize Object function
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:56:04 GMT
Reply-To: "Todd Inglett" <tinglett@rchland.vnet.ibm.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Excerpts from ext.misc.info-andrew: 28-Jul-92 FinalizeObject function
Mr. D.A. Chaplin@RCHGATE (894)

>         /usr/local/andrew/bin/class -s -I../include
>  -I/usr/local/andrew/include/atk -I/usr/local/andrew/include
>  -I/usr/include/X11R4 muchview.ch
>  WARNING:muchview.ch: - FinalizeObject routine declared with noInitializeObject
>  routine

I've tracked this down before.  I assume that your muchview class has
both anInitializeObject and a FinalizeObject (otherwise the warning is
real).  Thereseem to be some versions of lex floating around that can't
handleoverhead/class/pp/classpp.l.  I've modified that code to use a
lookup tableinstead of the long list of keywords (which results in a
nice small binary forclass, BTW) which seems to work for the crippled
lex.

You could try compiling classpp.l with GNU's flex, or with another
machine'slex to get rid of the message.  Or I could dig up my patches
for class....

-todd inglett
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:52:50 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>> Umm, bear in mind that somebody may not want to have separate "X" and
>"OW" startup sequences
>
>They have to be distinct at least at the point the X server is started... 

OK, I thought that by "startup sequence" you meant the sequence of
operations performed *by the ATK code* to start up.

If it's the startup sequence done by "xstart" or "openwin" or <whatever
the startup script is for your X implementation>, that's OK, as long as
whoever installs ATK does it, and doesn't require everybody who runs ATK
to do it themselves....
From: jsloan@NIWOT.SCD.UCAR.EDU (John Sloan)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Looking for paper on Andrew and UNIX
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:30:27 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


Pardon my intrusion, but I'm hoping someone can help me track down a
paper I enjoyed reading around 1986 or so. It dealt with the problems
the Andrew developers met when building on top of Berkeley UNIX. It
included a lot of useful design criteria they developed to, for
example, avoid exhausting resources inside the UNIX kernel, etc.  (A
similarly useful paper came out of the SPRITE project at Berkeley as
well, BTW.)

I've been through all the papers available via FTP on
emsworth.andrew.cmu.edu, and neither those papers nor anything
referenced in their bibliographies ring a bell (although Morris, "Make
or Take" is close).  I've WAISed around the usual tech-report sources
to no avail. And I spent an evening rummaging around in my hardcopy
files and journals at home (hey, I'm desperate!).

Any pointers anyone can provide would be appreciated. Please email
responses to jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu. Thanks in advance!

John Sloan              "Since I've given up hope,        +1 303 497 1243
NCAR/SCD                   I feel much better."       Fax +1 303 497 1137
Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA                            jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu
Logical Disclaimer:  belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
From: gk5g+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Gary Keim)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: CDROM AIX Binaries
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:00:17 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Excerpts from misc: 30-Jul-92 Alfredo Pflucker@PERVM1. (251)

> I just got the CD-ROM release of the ATK dated May, 1992.  I have an
> RS/6000 and I read that the binaries provided on the disc are for
> AIX 3.1.  I have AIX 3.2.  Should I compile the Andrew source or
will the rs_aix31 binaries run okey?

We've been told that the AIX3.1 binaries work well under AIX3.2.

Gary Keim
Andrew Consortium
From: Bob_Dew@ALW.NIH.GOV
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:10:56 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> There are a couple reasons not to put different types of fonts in one dir...

> 1.  If both formats require a fonts.dir, which one do you use?  Will it
> be compatible with the other?

They don't, though--by design.  OW uses a different name for fonts.alias
and fonts.dir (Families.list & Synonyms.list), so as not to confuse the
two font types.  I believe this was done intentionally so that the two
formats could not be confused.

2.  Some mkfontdir implementations get confused by extraneous files.

Don't know about this, except that we've never encountered a problem
building OW and MIT fonts in the same directory.  If mkfontdir can't
distinguish font extinsions, its buggy.

> 3.  Sometimes different formats have the same extensions.  (For example
> as near as I can tell MIT R5 pcf fonts work with DEC R4 servers, but not
> vice-versa. Both use a .pcf extension)

	
This is an odd-ball case, though.  Certainly you'd want to keep
incompatible versions of the same font in different places.  But a
general-purpose Andrew preferences setting wouldn't help here, in any
event.  I think this kind of situation should be viewed as a
site-specific X-server version-skew problem, rather than an Andrew
implementation issue.

The pertinent question, I think, is whether the user should be made
responsible for determining what type of X server is running, or whether
such low-level details should be handled by the application.  I don't
think one can reasonably expect users to edit a preferences file
whenever they switch window managers, and I know you can't expect casual
users to have the savvy to tend to such problems intuitively.

From the implementor's viewpoint, its easy to make an application find
the appropriate fonts:  either you define multiple font paths, or you
include all fonts in a common area.  

The current problem with Andrew, regarding font selection, is that it
recognizes only a single font path pointing to a single font type--this
causes obvious problems for user environments which use a mix of window
managers, but which share a common Andrew DEST area.

A better Andrew would be one in which xim.c handles multiple font paths,
or one where OW and MIT fonts are intermixed.  The latter is easier to
carry out, and I believe quite acceptable as an X-server design
implementation.

-Bob
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:46:57 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>(This still
>isn't quite right, really the "right" way is for the normal X, or OW,
>startup sequence to add the appropriate paths I think...)

Umm, bear in mind that somebody may not want to have separate "X" and
"OW" startup sequences - i.e., I'd rather be able to run the same
binaries regardless of whether I'm on a workstation running MIT X11 or
OW or <fill in additional X11 implementation with yet another font file
format> or an X terminal running <fill in additional X11 implementation
with, potentially, yet another font file format>.

I.e., if OPENWINDOWS_ENV is defined, I'd want it to add both "X11fonts"
*and* "Xnewsfonts" to the font path.  Then add in additional options for
additional font file formats supported by additional servers at various
sites....
From: tinglett+@rchland.ibm.com (Todd Inglett)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Compressed messages?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:24:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: rchland.kePgwY891JbdFLRo9U
Reply-To: "Todd Inglett" <tinglett@rchland.vnet.ibm.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I just did a du of my bcc folder today and discovered how huge it
hasbecome over the past 3 years (surprise, surprise!), and I got an idea
that Iwould like to pursue:

Suppose I were to compress some of the files in my bcc folder.  Wouldn't
it benice if messages would recognize the .Z extension and pipe it
throughuncompress automagically so I can stil read the messages.  Anyone
know where Ishould start looking, or is the file open code spread all
over AMS?

-todd inglett
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
From: vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley)
Subject: Andrew on SCO?
Organization: SwitchView Inc., Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:04:15 GMT
Keywords: SCO Unix, Opendesktop, SYSV


I'd like to get in on the fun but all I have are all these PC's
running SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) stuff.  I'd like to get andrew
going on a 486 running ODT V2.0.  What advice could anyone offer me?

-- 
Vance Shipley 
vances@xenitec.on.ca   vances@ltg.uucp   ..uunet.ca!xenitec!vances
From: Bob_Dew@ALW.NIH.GOV
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:23:11 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I've always wondered whether there was any reason *to* install OW fonts
in a separate directory.  Keeping separate font directories means you
somehow need to make ATK recognize multiple font paths in order to run
in a mixed environment of MIT/MOTIF and OW users.  Its much simpler to
lump all fonts into a single directory, letting the respective font
extensions distinguish OW, BDF, and MIT/MOTIF fonts.  

But then the name "X11fonts" becomes a misnomer--oh well, better poorly
named than disfunctional.
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Superfluous -pic compilations?
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:45:53 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>If only the non-pic object is used, why bother compiling with -pic too?

Actually, the -pic objects should be the ones that are being used.  Take
a close look at "/usr/andrew/bin/makedo"; just because the Makefile is
passing "<mumble>.o" to "makedo" doesn't mean that it's linking
"<mumble>.o", rather than "shared/<mumble>.o", into the ".do" file....

And the answer to the follow-up question is "because stuff that's
statically linked into 'runapp', rather than put into a '.do' file,
should be built non-pic, because otherwise you get the Global Offset
Table From Hell and may have to compile stuff "-PIC" rather than "-pic".
The net result is that I just decided to build both pic and non-pic
".o"s, shove the former into ".do" files, and shove the latter into ".a"
files.
From: leeper@mtgzy.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Running Metamail as root
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:54:43 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

There are apparently two standard underlying mailers, sendmail and UPAS.
 We are converting from sendmail to UPAS where I am and are replacing
sendmail with a wraparound to UPAS.

What I have discovered looking at our AMS code is that AMS does not call
sendmail directly but seems to have its own sendmail that calls on
primatives more deeply embedded.  Most of our mailers work fine with the
substitution described above.  AMS does not.  It gives an error when I
try to send mail.

Is there a version of AMS that uses UPAS?  Can AMS be converted to work
with UPAS?  Any thoughts?

                             Mark R. Leeper
                          leeper@mtgzy.att.com,
                             +1 908 957 5619
                         AT&T Bell Laboratories,
                       MT 3D-441, 200 Laurel Ave,
                          Middletown, NJ 07748

Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
From: tmd@s1.gov (Tina M. Darmohray)
Subject:  AFS Paper?
Originator: tmd@s1.gov
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Lab
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:43:54 GMT


I apologize if this isn't the appropriate news group.  -- Does anyone know
where I can ftp a technical paper on AFS, the filesystem?  I'm looking for
an introductory/overview paper on the pros (and cons) of the Andrew File
System. -- Thanks in advance,

	Tina
	tmd@s1.gov
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:48:22 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>I'd rather see multiple font diretories but leave it to the user to xset fp
>correctly in their startup files.

Sorry, I'm too lazy to do that.  I'd rather have the computer do work
for me than do work for the computer....
From: rr2b+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Robert Andrew Ryan)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Finalize Object function
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:09:17 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 28-Jul-92 Finalize Object
function Mr. D.A. Chaplin@uunet.u (891)

> Is the FinalizeObject function automatically called for the top level
> object when you Quit? I would have thought this would happen but it
> doesn't seem to. If it's not automatic, how should I call it - in the Quit
> function?

No, if your top level needs to be destroyed when you quit you should
explicitly destroy it yourself.  Note: never call FinalizeObject
directly, but Destroy will call it.   I believe you want something along
the lines of:

    struct im *im=view_GetIM(topv)
    im_SetView(im, NULL);
    view_Destroy(topv);

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 28-Jul-92 Finalize Object
function Mr. D.A. Chaplin@uunet.u (891)

> This problem may be related to a warning message I get when class
> preprocesses every header:


>         /usr/local/andrew/bin/class -s -I../include
> -I/usr/local/andrew/include/atk -I/usr/local/andrew/include
> -I/usr/include/X11R4 muchview.ch
>  WARNING:muchview.ch: - FinalizeObject routine declared with no
> InitializeObject routine

I believe this should only happen if you don't declare the
InitializeObject function in the .ch file.  

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 28-Jul-92 Finalize Object
function Mr. D.A. Chaplin@uunet.u (891)

> Another serious problem I've had is that the compiler doesn't
> complain about undefined symbols, yet the program crashes when it is run.
> Is there any fix for this?

I suspect this has to do with the way the dynamic loading for HPs works,
  we don't have a fix yet.  But we will probably look into this.

-Rob Ryan
Andrew Consortium
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:26:55 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

The standard 5.1 build seems to want to install ".snf" and maybe ".pcf"
fonts in "$ANDREWDIR/X11fonts", but wants to install X11/NeWS server
fonts in "$ANDREWDIR/Xnewsfonts".

Unfortunately, the standard 5.1 "xim.c" wants to add
"$ANDREWDIR/X11fonts", but not "$ANDREWDIR/Xnewsfonts", to the font
path.

This means that, by default, ATK applications don't get Andrew fonts
when fired up against an Open Windows server.

Is there any reason why the X11/NeWS server fonts shouldn't go into
"$ANDREWDIR/X11fonts" as well?  (That was how I fixed the problem here.)

Changing "xim.c" to add "$ANDREWDIR/Xnewsfonts" if built for OW would
make it less likely that the binaries would run against another
server, so I don't think *that's* the right solution.
From: rr2b+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Robert Andrew Ryan)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:13:31 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 22-Jul-92 Re: Is there any
reason *no.. Guy Harris@uunet.uu.net (773)

> Umm, bear in mind that somebody may not want to have separate "X" and
"OW" startup sequences

They have to be distinct at least at the point the X server is started... 

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 22-Jul-92 Re: Is there any
reason *no.. Guy Harris@uunet.uu.net (773)

>  I'd rather be able to run the same binaries regardless of whether I'm
> on a workstation running MIT X11 or
> OW or <fill in additional X11 implementation with yet another font file
> format> or an X terminal running <fill in additional X11 implementation
> with, potentially, yet another font file format>.

Agreed, thus I don't think having font manipulation in the binary is
going to win unless it is quite sophisticated. (Either completely
configurable via Yet Another Config File,  or exhaustively testing
attributes of the server in xim.)

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 22-Jul-92 Re: Is there any
reason *no.. Guy Harris@uunet.uu.net (773)

> I.e., if OPENWINDOWS_ENV is defined, I'd want it to add both "X11fonts"
> *and* "Xnewsfonts" to the font path.  Then add in additional options for
> additional font file formats supported by additional servers at various
> sites....

The problem is that this only works when the formats don't conflict.... 
Ie here at CMU I sometimes run MIT R5, sometimes DEC R4, in this
particular case I can get away with using the MIT fonts, but what if the
MIT fonts didn't work with DEC and vice-versa, adding both font dirs
doesn't help if the wrong one is first... (and if the server isn't smart
enough to skip it.)

-Rob Ryan
Andrew Consortium
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
From: datri@convex.com (Anthony A. Datri)
Subject: Re: Is there any reason *not* to install OW fonts in "X11fonts"?
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:26:45 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>environment variable to determine what font path to add.  (This still
>isn't quite right, really the "right" way is for the normal X, or OW,
>startup sequence to add the appropriate paths I think...)

The ATK programs are kind of unique in adding things to the server's font
path.

>There are a couple reasons not to put different types of fonts in one dir...

>1.  If both formats require a fonts.dir, which one do you use?  Will it
>be compatible with the other?

I don't think this is a problem for the case of X11R5 and Sun's OW -- the
two don't seem to filename-conflict -- but I can understand the danger of
precedent.

>2.  Some mkfontdir implementations get confused by extraneous files.

I can't remember which it was, but I swear that I've seen one that removes
everything in the destination directory.

I'll vote for letting the user set her font path manually as desired.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: Craig_Everhart@TRANSARC.COM
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Re: Running Metamail as root
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:03:52 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Excerpts from internet.other.info-andrew: 23-Jul-92 Re: Running Metamail
as root Z. Horvat@ames.arc.nasa. (1499)

> Another thing, which i find sometimes annoying, is the sometimes too strict
> type of address validation. E.g. Person Abc Def, which is only reachable via
> a gateway, would be adressed like that:

> To:@xyz.org:Abc.Def@blah.blah.blah.xyz.org

> Adressing this person that way with elm works and the message gets delivered.
> Using messages, it complains that the adress is not valid. In fact, the adress
> is valid, but messages just thinks so. Wouldn4t it be a more user friendly way
> if messages would warn and ask ?

You control all this via AndrewSetup.  Check the AMS_DeliveryViaXXX,
AMS_ValidateDestHosts, and AMS_HardHostValidationErrors options.  One
kind of behavior that Messages might be doing here is to check whether
the domain system says that you can get mail to ``xyz.org'' via type A
or type MX records.  If you want Messages to do remote host validation,
you have to configure it to validate remote host names in the same way
that your underlying mail delivery system will do it.

> One other thing that i miss, is to build aliases or nicknames "on the
> fly". Let4s
> say a menu option which allows me to extract the mail adress from the current
> message i4m in and assign a alias to it. Maybe this function is already
> there and
> i4ve just missed something ?

It's not there in native code, but you could cut-and-paste into your
~/.AMS_aliases file.  Perhaps some compound-action wizard or Ness wizard
could come up with some function that you could bind to a keystroke that
would (say) take the highlighted address, prompt for an alias name, and
add the combination to ~/.AMS_aliases.

		Craig
From: damon@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mr. D.A. Chaplin)
Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.andrew
Subject: Finalize Object function
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:08:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
Nntp-Posting-User: damon

Is the FinalizeObject function automatically called for the top level
object when you Quit? I would have thought this would happen but it
doesn't seem to. If it's not automatic, how should I call it - in the Quit
function?

This problem may be related to a warning message I get when class
preprocesses every header:


        /usr/local/andrew/bin/class -s -I../include -I/usr/local/andrew/include/atk -I/usr/local/andrew/include -I/usr/include/X11R4 muchview.ch
 WARNING:muchview.ch: - FinalizeObject routine declared with no InitializeObject routine

yet the InitializeObject routines are all there and all run correctly.
(and they're declared before the FinalizeObject functions)


Another serious problem I've had is that the compiler doesn't
complain about undefined symbols, yet the program crashes when it is run.
Is there any fix for this?

(Andrew 5.1, HP9000/720)

Thanks, Damon.