HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 23:36:00 EST
From: capek@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Social Security Numbers
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 005, Message 7 of 8

John Levine writes in Vol 2 #1:

>                                                     the hospital  have
>absolutely no use for  my SSN  since neither they nor my insurance
>company use it to identify me.
>
>Getting an SSN for a child involves the parent filling out and signing a
>form and sending it to the SSA.  What's the hospital going to do if you
>refuse to fill it out, keep the baby?  Remember, you're the customer.

I wonder how long it will be that hospitals don't  want to  use the SSN as an
identifier.  My employer recently switched from using employee numbers (no
relation to SSN, or anything else) to SSN's for health insurance processing.

Also, I'm quite sure that the Social Security Administration now requires a
copy of a birth certificate before issuing a new SSN for a baby.

   Peter Capek
Date: 3 Jan 93 00:51:05 GMT
From: Jarrod Staffen <uswnvg!uswnvg.com!jstaffe@uunet.uu.net>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: The UPS clipboard
Organization: U S WEST NewVector Group, Inc.
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 003, Message 4 of 10


Well, when I worked at UPS (last year), I was constantly in contact with
those clipboards, and it would have taken very little for me or anyone
with the huevos to do some tampering.  The fact is, yes it would be
quite challenging to get away with a data heist.  But if I had no class,
and could be bought,  I know I could find a group of 10 guys to pose
as UPS employees, get past the security gates, walk into a sorting hub,
and nab just as much information as we wanted.  Not just electronic
clipboards, but all shipping info that gets scanned.  This constitutes
all Next-day air and 2nd day air shipping (Customer record, date of delivery,
sorting pedigree, useless as any of this info may seem).  

BTW, UPS is not ignoring security risks.  They just ignore people
who ask about safety risks.  They know what is possible.  But they
do throw some __HEAVY__ penalties for anybody who screws with them.
Any employee of UPS knows the word FELONY, and how easy it could be
to have that word stamped across their forehead.  People aren't stupid,
and neither is UPS.  They don't typically hire anyone without getting
a complete sample of fingerprints, handwriting & print, photo,
etc, etc. including an FBI check or equavelent.

IMO, though, I think they should do something more to ensure the
safety of their electronic data.

--
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jarrod Staffen                                         Spontaneity has
    jstaffe@uswnvg.com				       its time and place.
*     The opinions expressed here are not claimed or supported by anyone.     *
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 01:01:23 CST
From: "Roy M. Silvernail" <roy@cybrspc.uucp>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: The UPS clipboard
Organization: Villa CyberSpace, Minneapolis, MN
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 006, Message 2 of 12

Jarrod Staffen <uswnvg!uswnvg.com!jstaffe@uunet.uu.net> writes:

> BTW, UPS is not ignoring security risks.  They just ignore people
> who ask about safety risks.  They know what is possible.

Doesn't that strike you as extremely arrogant?

> IMO, though, I think they should do something more to ensure the
> safety of their electronic data.

And IMO, they should be a little more forthcoming to their customers
about the precautions they do take (if, in fact, they take any at all...
I'm still not very convinced).  As a computer professional, I was
not exactly enthralled to be summarily dismissed by a marketing droid
who obviously had no grasp of the technical issues I raised.
--
    Roy M. Silvernail   | #include <stdio.h>                 | "press to test"
 roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu | main(){                            |     <click>
 cybrspc!roy@cs.umn.edu |  float x=1;                        | "release
                        |  printf("Just my $%.2f.\n",x/50);} |    to detonate"
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:19:04 GMT
From: Ed Ravin <eravin@panix.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Zip+4 Problems?
Organization: Not Just Another Pretty Face
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 001, Message 8 of 10

In article <comp-privacy1.120.8@pica.army.mil> Dewey Coffman <ibmpa!vpdbox.austin.ibm.com!dewey@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com> writes:
>	I'm a big fan of using my Zip+4 on my mail, does giving out this
>	"extra" +4 of zip code give out any more info about yourself
>	other than "where to send the mail"?

Of course it does.  First of all, remember that your ZIP code already tells
a lot about you -- there are marketing databases all over the country that
have set up criteria like "Dinks with Dough" or "Snowbird City" to describe
the people they presume are living in various ZIP codes.

Now, add to that the precision of ZIP+4.  At the very least, ZIP+4 codes
are unique to a single block.  In denser areas, they may be unique to a
single apartment building or set of floors (or even a section of mailboxes)
in a building.  If the marketing database folks have got their act together,
I'm sure this information will start to become useful to them.

The only bright spot on this stuff is that the Post Office reserves the
right to change the +4 portion of a ZIP+4 code.  As a matter of fact, anyone
who sends mail at the discounted rate with the ZIP+4 is supposed to check
the ZIP+4 codes every six months or so against the Post Office's master
database.  You can buy it on CD-ROM, 9-track tape, and even on floppies
or paper directories for selected areas.  I still get mail with all three
ZIP+4 codes that have been assigned to my apartment building over the
past few years.

As you may have guessed already, because of these databases, it doesn't
matter a whole lot whether you supply your ZIP+4 to someone who wants it--
they can always look it up themselves.  The databases software allows you
to supply a street address and city name or ZIP code and it spits out
the corrected street name (standardized spellings, etc) and the ZIP+4.

So the answer to your question is no, giving out the ZIP+4 doesn't give
out any more info about yourself that they couldn't get anyway.  And if
they are going to send you any bulk mailings, they will not only get your
ZIP+4 anyway, they'll probably chuck the one you give them if the Post
Office's databases have a different one.  Yes, the ZIP+4 will make targeting
much easier for bulk mailers, direct marketers, and especially political
groups that mail to specific gerrymandered election districts, which often
have no correspondence to ZIP code boundaries.

-- 
Ed Ravin            | I like to think (it has to be!) of a cybernetic ecology
eravin@panix.com    | where we are free of our labors and joined back to nature
philabs!trintex!elr | returned to our mammal brothers and sisters,
+1 914 993 4737     | and all watched over by machines of loving grace
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:17:53 GMT
From: dewey@vpdbox.austin.ibm.com (Dewey Coffman)
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Zip+4 on CD-ROM?
Reply-To: dewey@vpdbox.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Austin, TX. US of A.
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 005, Message 5 of 8

In article <comp-privacy2.1.8@pica.army.mil>, Ed Ravin <eravin@panix.com> writes:
|>            You can buy it on CD-ROM, 9-track tape, and even on floppies
|> or paper directories for selected areas.  I still get mail with all three
|> ZIP+4 codes that have been assigned to my apartment building over the
|> past few years.
|> 
	I figured this was true, I contacted the USPS and they gave me
	the name of a company that had it on CD-ROM, course they wanted
	$1500 for it. Anyone know of any other Zip+4 sources on CD-ROM?

	-dewey
---
Dewey Coffman		ibmpa!vpdbox.austin.ibm.com!dewey%ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com
Consulting @ IBM			dewey@ctci.com
11400 Burnet Rd				All opinions are mine.
Austin, TX 78758-3493, USA		(512) 823-6463
===============================================================================
EPA Stratospheric Ozone Hotline, 800-296-1996, IRS Info & Refunds, 800-TAX-1040
Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:15:27 GMT
From: fwebb@star-trek.bbn.com (Fred Webb)
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman, Inc., Cambridge, MA
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 006, Message 9 of 12

In article <comp-privacy2.5.2@pica.army.mil> Hans Lachman <lachman@netcom.com> writes:
>In article <comp-privacy2.1.10@pica.army.mil> johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes:
>>>What experience have people in this group had in keeping the SSN of a newborn
>>>private?  I have heard that some hospitals insist on submitting the paperwork
>>>to the Social Security Administration to obtain the number.
>
>It would seem reasonable to decline their offer to set your kid up with an
>SSN since he won't need one until he starts working.

Well, things have changed since Hans was born.  Now, in order to get an
income tax exemption for the new baby, you have to get a SSN for him, and
supply it on your tax return.  There is some sort of an exemption for newborns,
but I think you now have to say that the SSN has been "applied for", and it's
only good for the first year or less.

Even before that, if you wanted to establish any kind of a savings account in
the baby's name (to avoid taxes), you had to supply the baby's SSN to the
institution holding the account.  Again, the rules on this have been getting
stricter and stricter, and I don't think you can get away with not suppling
a number for very long.

Now, I don't think there's a privacy issue in the hospital submitting the
paperwork to the SSA on your behalf - just make sure that the address for
returning the Social Security Card is yours, not the hospital's.  The SSN
doesn't appear on the application form - it's assigned by the SSA after they
get the paperwork, so there's no way the hospital can find out the SSN
assigned.  All the hospital can know is that you have applied for a number.
By insisting on filling out the paperwork, the hospital is mostly doing you a
favor.

					-- Fred
Date: 01 Jan 93 13:07:23 EST
From: David Lehrer <71756.2116@compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Akron BBS Trial Delayed
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 003, Message 2 of 10

=
 
 
 
AKRON BBS TRIAL DELAYED
 
The Akron BBS Trial originally scheduled for Monday, January 4,
1993 has was continued--will *not* happen Monday the 4th.  A new
trial date was not determined.  Mark Lehrer's attorney requested
the continuance and since Summit County Prosecutor Lynn Slaby
assigned a new prosecutor 'due to calendar year rotation' was not
resisted.
 
 
David Lehrer
 
 
=
 



Distribution:
  >internet:comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:13:34 GMT
From: Carl Oppedahl <oppedahl@panix.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Zip+4 Problems?
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 001, Message 4 of 10


>	I'm a big fan of using my Zip+4 on my mail, does giving out this
>	"extra" +4 of zip code give out any more info about yourself
>	other than "where to send the mail"?

Have you ever looked in a Zip+4 directory?  That's where you would
find the answer.  In an apartment building with, say, 200 units it
will typically narrow things down to 12 or so apartment unit mailboxes.
So ... if you are the type who leaves out the apartment number from 
your address on purpose, the Zip+4 might give some of that back to
the reader of your address..

I recall learning where Dustin Hoffman lived here in New York
because it happens he got enough mail he had his own Zip+4 assigned,
and there in the nine-digit Zip code directory for New York was
his listing in some apartment building.  So, even though he had
an unlisted telephone number and tried to keep his address out
of general public knowledge, there it was for all to see in a directory
anybody can buy for $12.  (He has since moved.)



-- 
Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:02:53 GMT
From: Hans Lachman <lachman@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: Netcom
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 005, Message 2 of 8

In article <comp-privacy2.1.10@pica.army.mil> johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes:
>>What experience have people in this group had in keeping the SSN of a newborn
>>private?  I have heard that some hospitals insist on submitting the paperwork
>>to the Social Security Administration to obtain the number.
>
>Getting an SSN for a child involves the parent filling out and signing a
>form and sending it to the SSA.  What's the hospital going to do if you
>refuse to fill it out, keep the baby?

It would seem reasonable to decline their offer to set your kid up with an
SSN since he won't need one until he starts working.  I was born in '63,
and didn't get an SSN until around age 10, and the world didn't come to an
end.  I suggest you just act like not having a number is the most natural
thing in the world, and maybe we'll infect others with that attitude.

Hans Lachman
lachman@netcom.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:04:19 GMT
From: Dick Grady <grady@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 006, Message 10 of 12

In article <comp-privacy2.5.2@pica.army.mil> Hans Lachman <lachman@netcom.com> writes:
>It would seem reasonable to decline their offer to set your kid up with an
>SSN since he won't need one until he starts working.  I was born in '63,
>and didn't get an SSN until around age 10, and the world didn't come to an
>end.

Your kid may not a SSN for himself, but *you* will nedd a SSN for him if
you want to claim him as a deduction on your federal income tax.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 10:20:20 GMT
From: D Anton Sherwood <dasher@well.sf.ca.us>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: RSA Algorithm
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 003, Message 3 of 10

In article <comp-privacy1.118.1@pica.army.mil> David O Hunt <bluelobster+@cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Could someone please explain the RSA algorithm to me - the part that REALLY
>confuses me is how one key can remain public but not be useable to decrypt.

The two keys are complementary.  What is encrypted with the private key is
decrypted only with the public key; what is encrypted with the public key is
decrypted only with the private key.
-- 
Anton Sherwood                                       dasher@well.sf.ca.us
+1 415 267 0685              1800 Market St #207, San Francisco 94102 USA
"We all hate poverty, war and injustice, unlike the rest of you squares."
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:52:02 MST
From: Tom Wicklund <wicklund@opus.intellistor.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 006, Message 11 of 12

In <comp-privacy2.5.2@pica.army.mil> lachman@netcom.com (Hans Lachman) writes:

>In article <comp-privacy2.1.10@pica.army.mil> johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes:
>>>What experience have people in this group had in keeping the SSN of a newborn
>>>private?  I have heard that some hospitals insist on submitting the paperwork
>>>to the Social Security Administration to obtain the number.
>>
>>Getting an SSN for a child involves the parent filling out and signing a
>>form and sending it to the SSA.  What's the hospital going to do if you
>>refuse to fill it out, keep the baby?
>
>It would seem reasonable to decline their offer to set your kid up with an
>SSN since he won't need one until he starts working.  I was born in '63,
>and didn't get an SSN until around age 10, and the world didn't come to an
>end.  I suggest you just act like not having a number is the most natural
>thing in the world, and maybe we'll infect others with that attitude.

Nope, you now must get a social security number for your child by
age 1.  The SSN must be included on the parent's tax return.  This was
to cut down on the number of false dependents reported on tax returns.

[Moderator's Note:  This is *only* true if claim him/her as an exemption.
 ._dennis ]

When I went through this 2 years ago the hospital didn't require
that you fill out the SSN paperwork, it was done as a service since
it'll have to be done within a year anyway (unless you aren't required
to fill out a tax return, which covers very few of us).  Of course, if
you don't want to claim your child as a dependent I suppose you don't
need an SSN.  I'm not sure the IRS would mind if you pay the extra tax
instead.

I've heard that according to IRS records several million children
disappeared in the U.S. in the couple years after 1986 (when SSNs for
children were first required) -- nonexistent dependents which people
quit listing.

I doubt there's a big privacy issue regarding the child -- the
hospital sends birth information to the social security administration
which sends the SS card and number direct to the parent.  There may be
some information on the application which the hospital doesn't have on
either the birth certificate application or insurance records, but I
doubt it's much.
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:11:56 EST (Fri)
From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN
Organization: I.E.C.C.
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 005, Message 8 of 8

>And, unlike names and addresses, a person's SSN cannot be duplicated or 
>changed.  An SSN, once issued, is ours to keep. It never changes.  The SSN is
>truly the "universal identifier."

I have read that due to 45 years of clerical errors there are over four
million people who have either more than one SSN or use an SSN also used
by someone else.  It is a gross oversimplification to claim that the SSN is
unique.

>With a correct SSN in hand, an employer will be able to 
>obtain a broad spectrum of data of great significance in pre-employment 
>investigations.  Without it, however, the employer will be blocked from 
>receiving accurate information.

This is also grossly oversimplified.  You're probably referring to the
personal data banks kept by outfits like Equifax, in which roughly 1/3 of
the records contain data that is obsolete or just plain wrong.  It would
be more correct to say that the SSN makes it easier obtain unverified
and often inaccurate information.  Also note that the only two data banks
legitimately indexed by SSN, those kept by the SSA and IRS are legally
off limits to prospective employers, whether or not they have an SSN.

>SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TABLE
>
>AREA    HIGHEST GROUP NUMBERS           STATE OR TERRITORY
>NUMBER  odd<10 even>=10 even<10 odd>10
>
>000     none   none     none    none    unassigned
>001     09     74       none    none    New Hampshire
 ...

You might also tell us when you compiled this table.  Since several
million new SSNs are issued each year, tables like this rapidly go out of
date.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 04:20:31 GMT
From: James Davies <jrbd@craycos.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 006, Message 6 of 12

In article <comp-privacy2.5.2@pica.army.mil> lachman@netcom.com (Hans Lachman) writes:
>In article <comp-privacy2.1.10@pica.army.mil> johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes:
>>Getting an SSN for a child involves the parent filling out and signing a
>>form and sending it to the SSA.  What's the hospital going to do if you
>>refuse to fill it out, keep the baby?
>
>It would seem reasonable to decline their offer to set your kid up with an
>SSN since he won't need one until he starts working.

The IRS now requires that the SSN be supplied for a dependent on your
income tax form, at least when the dependent is over the age of 2.
So you can refuse to get a SSN for your kid, but it'll cost you the
ability to get a deduction for the kid on your income tax.

[Moderator's Note:  For those individuals/couples (not me) whoose income
is over a certain threshold, the exemption is phased out. ._dennis ]
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:04:50 EST (Thu)
From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN and new baby
Organization: I.E.C.C.
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 2, Issue 001, Message 10 of 10

>What experience have people in this group had in keeping the SSN of a newborn
>private?  I have heard that some hospitals insist on submitting the paperwork
>to the Social Security Administration to obtain the number.

Although I haven't yet dealt with a newborn baby, I find that about half
of the dealings I have with any hospital involve telling them that I have
no interest in doing yet another stupid thing that is their "standard
policy."  We have a little dance we do whenever I go in in which I tell
them that I don't know my SSN, I don't care what my SSN is, that none of
the many pieces of paper in my wallet have my SSN (sometimes they want to
look, but they usually give up after the driver's license), and they have
absolutely no use for the damned thing since neither they nor my insurance
company use it to identify me.

Getting an SSN for a child involves the parent filling out and signing a
form and sending it to the SSA.  What's the hospital going to do if you
refuse to fill it out, keep the baby?  Remember, you're the customer.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl