From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Moderation (was pentagrams)
Date: 25 Jul 92 04:43:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712101755.F00005

WD>  From: wjones@diana.cair.du.edu (WILLIAM D. JONES)
WD>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
WD>  (A response to Hal Ravn comments)

WD>  second to raise the question of the swatica (sp?) I  realize
WD>  that many people have gut reactions to many symbols be they
WD>  archaic or modern($).  The events of fifty years ago under-
WD>  standably bring to the surface many feelings in many different
WD>  people.  But once again I must insist that it is _unreasonable_
WD>  for people to vent thier anger for said events on a helpless
WD>  geometric figure. The "Fighting words" rulings of recent years
WD>  are a travisty of American law.  It is this sort of court action that
WD>  alarms me even more so then small society regulations.

Me too!

WD>     The point I wish to make is that every one of us has a
WD>  reasponsibility to protect or individual freedoms in every instant of
WD>  everyday.  From the Society to our neighborhoods, we should stand
WD>  up for what we believe, allow all others to stand for thier beliefs
WD>  join them when we see fit and respect the fact that some don't
WD>  see what we see when we stare at the sunset.
WD>     I don't argue the BoD's ruling.  I do feel that, given the
WD>  nature of our socity(the big one),  we need to bend with the
WD>  breeze.  I do feel that the motivation for the ruling is something
WD>  we all need to work on.

WD>    If there are any of you out there who really do find the pentacle
WD>  or
WD>  other such charge offensive, why don't you tell us why here.

Now I don't find it offensive, because I know what it *really* means, in 
both the historic and the modern sense. I think you will find those who take 
serious offense to be the folk who are a little naive, and under-educated.

However, I do think we *all* ought to consider the concept of courtesy in 
this matter, as well. I *am* offended by "in-yo'-face" displays of religion 
in the SCA because I think they are uncalled-for. A cross is a geometric 
shape that is a symbol of sacrifice. It ought not carry any more baggage 
than that, and if it does, the bearer is doing something wrong to the 
viewer. Same with the Thor's hammer. However, because of mundane motion 
pictures and nasty recent history, we need to avoid the pentacle and a form 
of cross, called flyfot. Soon, due to the Neo-Nazi movement ussurping it, we 
may also need to stop using the Celtic cross (the one with the circle over 
the middle). There are miriad ways, however, to address both our beliefs and 
the fact that in period such things were fit subjects for armory.

Christians have Paschal lambs, grails, sea shells, and many other 
less-recognizable charges; and pagans have boars, bulls, and the other 
things I discussed yesterday, plus more. I have not studied Jewish or Moslem 
symbology thoroughly enough (I suddenly realize) but I am certain they also 
have many symbols, and I know the various Eastern religions are surfeited 
with wonderful symbols. All of these are not "in-yo'-face", but the kind of 
thing that may cause interest, and give a chance for one to explain, if they 
want, and perhaps create sympathy where fear or ambivalence once lived...

Is that not more courteous? AND more effective?

I have attended two weddings where the bride was pagan and the groom 
Christian, and (except with extreme cases) seen the relatives on the groom's 
side slowly relax, and realize that nothing weird or nasty or frightening 
was going on, even though both services were presided over by pagans (one a 
shaman, and one a witch). I admit that both services were a bit modeled on 
the more common Christian version in order to achieve this harmony, but it 
was nice to see that the largest majority of the non-pagans found a great 
deal less to criticize than some had obviously expected.

To answer a certain Mr. King, yes, we can all get along. We don't because we 
don't seem to realize it takes work, and periodic tuning up, rather like any 
complicated system...even your fire-breathing mundane chariot.

In the SCA, where courtesy is our main founding principle, we have NO excuse 
not to try...

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca