HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mousseau@paun02.NOHOST.NODOMAIN (Normand Mousseau)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:08:25 GMT
Reply-To: mousseau@paun02.NOHOST.NODOMAIN (Normand Mousseau)
Organization: Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: paun02.pa.msu.edu


In article <C1HpGI.GI8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, bigger@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Marcel Bigger) writes:

|> In article <rdavis.728008225@connie.de.convex.com> rdavis@convex.com (Ray Davis) writes:
|> >Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk (Adrian Waterworth) writes:
|> >
|> >>As for the availability of
|> >>different goods and services, I find it hard to believe that the range
|> >>of products available in the US is so much greater than those in any
|> >>other developed nation.
|> >
|> >Really it is.  You wouldn't believe how much more the selection
|> >and variety is in most areas of merchandise.  I know it's hard
|> >to believe, but if you grew up in the states and find yourself
|> >living elsewhere, you wonder how folks can put up with so little
|> >choice and such crap quality (in *some* cases - not all!).
|> >
|> 
|> I enjoy this discussion. I can be so bloody chavinistic.
|> My personal experience on the selection of merchandise between
|> the US and Switzerland is that the range of products available
|> in the US is greater; however, the range of QUALITY products is
|> about the same. And it seems that products and services with
|> a decent quality cost more in the US than in Switzerland.
|> Moreover, sometimes the US does not offer any products and services
|> of quality in some areas (e.g. transportation, banking, bread baking, ...)
|> as does Switzerland.
|> 
|> Cheers
|> Marcel W. Bigger


	I would agree with you.  Here in mid-Michigan it is simply impossible
to find good bread, good meat cut, good restaurants etc.  Oh, there is
a large choice of restaurants but none of them with even raisonnable 
quality. And let's not talk about plays or concerts. And there are about 250 000 people living around. 

	In the town where I come from ,in Quebec, I can find at least half
a dozen very good restaurants for a population of 25 000 people. 

	The U.S. is a raisonnable country to live in, however, I would not
give them a number 1 everywhere...

	Normand Mousseau
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:18:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.040507.5588@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.211300.8065@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>i really don't understand what you are trying to say here.
>>inflation simply means an increase in prices. if the price of hammers
>>in terms of bananas increases, then there is "price inflation"
>>of hammers in terms of bananas. but that would only happen due to
>>market effects. and when the number of bananas needed to buy a hammer
>>increased, people would start making more hammers and growing fewer
>>bananas. eventually an equilibrium, or at least a stable cycle
>>would be reached. you wouldn't see the inflation continue endlessly.
>>
>>please explain the point you are trying to make here.
>
>A) Inflation that happens due to "market effects" is still inflation.

yes. but the market then acts to correct it. how can the market correct
for a government running the printing presses? that is an open loop.

>B) You're assuming that there will be a final equilibrium.  In a
>dynamic system, there's no certainty of any final equilibrium.

i said "equilibrium, or at least a stable cycle", meaning, a controlled
oscillation akin to how a thermostat works.

>C) Currency as currency has no intrinsic value; it is only valuable
>when it is actually used.  Fiat currencies have no other value;
>commodity currencies may have some alternative valuation.
>
>The point is that money that is hoarded isn't terribly USEFUL; it's
>only valuable when you actually buy something with it.

true.

>Is it not a truism that it is better to get $1 today than it is to get
>$1 tomorrow?  I'd rather get the buck today, REGARDLESS of any
>inflation.

well, the higher inflation is, the more you want that dollar today.
but if you have a deflationary scenario, you would want that dollar
later, not now.

>That preference will in fact create a certain amount of
>inflation.
>
>The extent to which people prefer to receive money now as opposed to
>later will create a latent amount of inflation.  It is sometimes
>described as the "real" interest rate, and I hear that it's considered
>to be between 3% and 6%.  This might be considered a "floor" that
>indicates some basic level of inflation.

it sounds like you are confusing inflation with interest. having
a dollar now rather than later is good because you can lend it. 
any inflation which exists erodes this, which is why inflation and
IRs move together (roughly).

--
charles
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: On behalf of Iowa (was Re: US as No. 1)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:35:32 GMT

In article <C1HGr8.DD8@news.iastate.edu> sballant@iastate.edu (Susan Ballantine) writes:


>At risk of being flamed off the net by all these midewest-haters, I'd like
>to firmly assert that Iowa is really not too bad.
>sue b.
>iowa state u.

	As it was me that started this, allow me to expand and
	make my apologies to all the Iowans out there.  Iowa has
	its strengths and its weaknesses.  I really liked the people,
	they were easygoing, friendly and by-and-large well-educated.
	It had the characteristics one might expect of an agricultural
	state, and some of these are great strengths of the U.S.

	I am, however, not the agricultural type, I am a very urban
	person and many of the things I had grown to accustomed to
	after a life in metropoles were simply not available in Iowa
	and I found it most frustrating.

	I should also point out that I was in Iowa just after the worst
	days of the farm crisis and there simply was not the money in the
	state to give a good standard of living.

	Alec.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Princeton University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:57:32 GMT

In article <2420@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>... bit I know that
>people will pay interst for my investment, so I know that there must be 
>inflation.

What you "know" is wrong.  Even in the absence of inflation, people will
pay interest for the use of your money.  If they have a productive use
for the money and can plausibly forecast that said use will return more
than they would have to pay you as interest, they will borrow your money.
They will do this irrespective of whether prices are inflating.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu

Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: bgoffe@seq.uncwil.edu (Bill Goffe)
Subject: Re: Money Supply (Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE)
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:37:26 GMT

kevin@drogges.tti.com (Kevin Carothers) writes:

>In article <1993Jan25.201022.18348@Princeton.EDU> nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker) writes:
>%In article <1993Jan25.103542.7525@hemlock.cray.com> rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
>%>
>%>In June 1992, M1 had grown 11% over the previous 12 months (Source: 
>%>Federal Reserve Board).  The 3 month average was 6% (indicating a 
>%>slowdown in the rate).
>%
>%In December 1992, M1 had grown 15% over the previous 12 months (same
>%source).  The actual increase was $125 billion and it was ALL currency.
>%Federal Reserve Notes.  All of it.  Currency outstanding increased by
>%50% in one year.
>%
>%Now I'm puzzled, because I simply do not understand what people are
>%doing with all this currency.  Did we ship it all to Colombia?  Does
>%half the country have a couple of thousand dollars stuffed (literally)
>%under the mattress?  Are people that scared?  (I am, but I certainly
>%don't get that impression from others while walking around.)
>%
>%Any economists care to guess?  I've set followups to sci.econ in hopes
>%of some reasonable speculation.
> 
> I am by NO means an economist, but I'll answer anyway :)

> EuroDollars and EastDollars.
> Believe it or not, one of the chief exports of the US is... dollars!

> When a Japanese businessman buys a Korean freighter, the transaction is
> (usually) undertaken in dollars. When a Dutch oil freighter loads 
> a tanker full of oil in the  mideast, the transaction is undertaken
> in dollars. Ther list goes on and on and on...

But why do it with currency? I don't think a Dutch oil freighter captain is
going to pay with a stack of green. $1M in $20's weighs several hundred 
pounds...

As another post showed, the increase in cash, as described above, may not 
have even occurred.

Bill Goffe
bgoffe@seq.uncwil.edu
From: ssoar@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Steven E Soar)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: inflation vs employment
Keywords: how to choose?`
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:24:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.012604.26172@cs.brown.edu>, pcm@cs.brown.edu (Peter C. McCluskey) writes:
> 
>  The claim that reducing inflation causes unemployment is a myth which
> only the Keynesians still believe. A reduction in inflation influences
> the timing of changes in unemployment in much the same way as when you
> stop drinking alcohol influences when you will get a hangover, without
> being the cause of the hangover.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   >> Peter McCluskey >> pcm@cs.brown.edu >>   Reunite Gondwanaland!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------


Then it is merely coincidence that every time that we have one of those
"recession" things where a bunch of people get thrown out of work, the
inflation rate goes down, and when they go back to work it goes back up??

Seriously I'd appreciate a reference to a book where this is described. Your
hangover anecdote, while cute, doesn't explain the mechanics very well.

steve soar

Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: dong@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Don M. Gibson)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Reply-To: dong@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:37:07 GMT

In article 286@athena.mit.edu, cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:

>is inflation natural?
>
>i think the answer is: some of it is, but most of it isn't.
>
>the price of something is simply how many dollars someone
>is willing to trade for a product. if inflation means that
>that number of dollars goes up, then inflation is caused by
>the market valuing the product more relative to the dollars
>than it did before.
>
>this can happen because of effects related to the product, or
>related to the currency. i would say that an increase in demand
>for the product would lead to increased prices if supply could
>not expand to meet demand. this might lead to "natural inflation".
>
>but most of inflation occurs due to dollar effects: the government
>prints up more dollars, so the value of a dollar is worth less than
>it was before. as such, inflation is not "natural".
>
>those who know more feel free to correct/expand upon this.
>
>--

It should be stated that the productivity of a country is 
never constant.  Thus, to maintain constant/steady prices
for products, the money supply must change with overall
productivity.  Unfortunately, no govt. or mining company
is able to that, so prices will naturally fluctuate.  Now,
one needs to assess human nature.  Prices are sticky, in
that retailers are more inclined to raise prices that to
decrease them (witness auto prices).  Therefore it would
seem that inflation (upward ratcheting) is more "natural"
than deflation or price constancy.  
--DonG


Xref: sparky sci.econ:9928 soc.culture.usa:10242 soc.culture.japan:14450 soc.culture.british:19601 soc.culture.canada:10523
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:00:37 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


charles, okay, then, we agree on this much then: that government is only
responsible for part of inflation, however big that part might be. I
have only been trying to distinguish the 2 components of inflation
because someone said that inflation was "wrong", and it seems that
since only part of inflation is due to intentional human activity, only
part of it may be considered "wrong".
From: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 26 Jan 1993 06:14:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jfh@yacht.cis.ufl.edu (James F. Hranicky) says:

>The inflation of prices America has experienced since 1913 is not
>"natural."

The reason it's natural for governments to engage in inflation
and other activities that don't make sense, like war (which they
have been doing since the beginning of history), is that government
is outside of the marketplace, and is therefore out of control.
The answer to this problem is to get every country to start cutting
its spending across-the-board, and start paying off its debts.
One or more countries have to take the lead in order for this to
happen.  The U.S.A. should assume this role immediately.
-- 
=======================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=======================
From: clark@bruce.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Mansfield study/economics of basic research activity
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:08:49 GMT

I have heard of a study by a Prof. Mansfield, of the Wharton School I  
believe, which is regarded as being very influential in current thinking  
about economic analysis of scientific research.

I would be most grateful for a bibliographic reference to this study, as  
well as to any others that deal with this issue.

Charles Clark
National Institute of Standards and Technology
 
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: burke@seachg.uucp (Michael Burke)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Reply-To: burke@seachg.UUCP (Michael Burke)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:02:02 GMT

In article <2423@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>How large is Canada's population, when compared to that of the
>United States?


Canada's population is about 26 to 27 Million. When compared to the United
States, its 45 to 46 Million.
-- 
---
Michael Burke

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8 
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484  Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!burke
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Michael Wright)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Since no one is defending inflation, (was re: Inflation)
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:58:07 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kerr247-ws-2.ucsc.edu


In article <93Jan22.114651edt.574@neuron.ai.toronto.edu> radford@cs.toronto.edu (Radford Neal) writes:
|In article <1jngr2INNfq7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Michael Wright) writes:
|
|>Unanticipated inflation is, in general, a good thing: if wages are
| -----------------------
|>sticky it gives you the opportunity to work if the real wage is
|>reduced, it makes you economize on money balances so you invest more,
|>it reduces debt and thereby makes it easier to invest, it gives a
|>signal that the economy is improving (which it may be for the
|>reasons above or not) and so boosts consumer confidence. Moderate inflation 
|>has nearly always been associated with rising output.
|>
|>Of course, high inflation, or too variable an inflation rate, makes it
|                               ------------------------------
|>impossible to judge the difference between real and nominal prices,
|>and so the whole economy can go down the tubes. Anticipating this
|>event also is disasterous.
|
|
|These statements are contradictory. If the inflation rate is not
|variable, then the inflation will be anticipated, assuming a modicum
|of intelligence among the population.

Well, I would say unclear, not contradictory. In the first case, we
have unanticipated mild inflation, the adjective mild is stressed.
Therefore, the costs of confusing general with relative prices is
miniscule. The optimal inflation rate is then mild, somewhat
unpredictable, and although varies somewhat, soes not vary a great
deal. It cannot be predicted, and more than likely will be too costly
for any indiviudual to predict on his own, yet this none the less has
large social effects. 

|You also fail to explain why solving the problem of "sticky" wages
|via inflation is preferable to solving it some other way. 

I know of no other way to solve the sticky wage problem off hand, but
certainly it is in each individual's interest to have sticky wages, so
that efforts to end them would likely prove hopeless.

-- 
"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that     
    distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            
                      Kenneth Boulding                             

					All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
						david@cats.ucsc.edu.
From: jfh@yacht.cis.ufl.edu (James F. Hranicky)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:33:44 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In article <1993Jan21.163707.23334@oakhill.sps.mot.com> dong@oakhill.sps.mot.com writes:
>In article 286@athena.mit.edu, cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>
>>is inflation natural?
>>
>>i think the answer is: some of it is, but most of it isn't.
[del]
>
>It should be stated that the productivity of a country is 
>never constant.  Thus, to maintain constant/steady prices
>for products, the money supply must change with overall
>productivity.  Unfortunately, no govt. or mining company
>is able to that, so prices will naturally fluctuate.  Now,
>one needs to assess human nature.  Prices are sticky, in
>that retailers are more inclined to raise prices that to
>decrease them (witness auto prices).  Therefore it would
>seem that inflation (upward ratcheting) is more "natural"
>than deflation or price constancy.  
>--DonG

The upward ratcheting of prices has only been "natural" since the
installation of the Federal Reserve. Before this, the CPI was actually
experiencing a gradual fall.

If you can find a copy of the CPI for the past two hundered years or so,
you will see that when large amounts of fiat money were pumped into the
system, the CPI takes off (war of 1812, Civil War, after the Fed).

Productivity is not constant, certainly, but when productivity overtakes
the increase in the money supply, prices will tend to fall. Some people
take this as a pox on businesses, but the prices of production fall also.

The law of S & D prevents retailers from pushing up prices indifinately.
When large amounts of fiat money are pumed into the economy, they can and
actually have to raise prices to keep up with the artificial demand.

The inflation of prices America has experienced since 1913 is not
"natural."

Jim Hranicky (jfh@reef.cis.ufl.edu)

Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Princeton University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:18:54 GMT

In article <2455@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>Okay, Norbert, let's say that we live in an economy where there is a bank
>which is willing to pay 5% interest on money deposited. If anyone at
>all deposits money in that bank, his nominal wealth will increase by
>5% iunxx in one year, right?  Let's say someone else does not. The depositor
>now has 5% more nominal wealth to play with than the non-depositor,
>and is thus more able to compete in the market than he was before, whreas
>the non-edpositor hasn't changed, in terms of nominal wealth. The
>demand curve will shift, moving the quilibrium point, dragging prices
>up with it. Thsixxx This is what I "know".  Where have I strayed?

If the bank pays a person 5% interest, it's because the bank is able to
lend the money for at least 5% itself.  If it lends that money for a
productive purpose, the supply curve shifts too.  The bank depositor bids
for more; the producer supplies more.  There is no a priori reason to
believe that inflation will result from the shifting of both curves.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu

Xref: sparky sci.econ:9882 soc.culture.usa:10145 soc.culture.british:19471 soc.culture.canada:10426
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
From: deyoung@acs.harding.edu (Joel M. DeYoung)
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:04:16 -0600
Reply-To: deyoung@acs.harding.edu
Organization: Harding University

In article <1993Jan25.220240.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <1k1aa5INNp2f@pandora.sdsu.edu>, larryr@saturn.sdsu.edu (Larry Riedel) writes:
>> My experience has been that a large percentage of the people who have
>> emigrated to Canada did so because they couldn't get into the United
>> States (green card, citizenship, etc.), and the closest real country
>> (not just in location) is Canada.
>> 
>> 
>> Larry
>
>
>Absolutely agreed.  Canada is hugely inferior to the US in all respects,
>and Canadians occupy considerable time and efort ina fruitless attempt
>to try to convince people otherwise.  To the rest of us it looks rather
>ludicrous and a little sad.
>
>Laurence
>

Do you care to elaborate on this?  "Hugely inferior... in all
respects" is a bit of a broad statement wouldn't you say?  It's all a
matter of taste, mate, and you have simply shown your ignorance in
systematically categorizing the people of an entire country, a country
that, as pointed out earlier, has an immigration rate somewhere in the
neighborhood of twice that of the US per capita.  And that's because
Canada offers many opportunities in education and the possibility for
a better life.

Joel
=======================================================================
 ||  Joel M. DeYoung       With much wisdom comes much sorrow;      ||
 ||  Harding University      The more knowledge, the more grief.    ||
 ||  deyoung@harding.edu                             - The teacher  ||
=======================================================================
From: choy@dvinci.USask.Ca (Henry Choy)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Employment (or lack of it)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:51:03 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: dvinci.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Employment here is still low, but I keep hearing of how certain
Asian countries are in dire need of brainpower. Why can they find
work for people to do? Why can't we?

Perhaps there is so much bureaucracy that work takes too long to
get going. Perhaps consumers are full after their feeding frenzy.
There are people who need to feed. They have to earn their keep,
demonstrate their worth. The powers that be control a large amount
of resources which may be distributed to more people to help them
live happier. In turn these people should show that the distribution
of these resources mean something to the owner. Are people capable
of such a demonstration? Can they show that the world would be
a better place when these resources are in their hands?

What can people do to earn their pay? There must be something. Someone
out there is doing useful work. Earning money. Can people follow their
example?



--

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie