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Apparently-To: catholic@american.edu
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:53:45 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 23-Dec-1992 1246" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Hello Bonjour

>Question about your Discussion
>What is the Statut of the abortion in USA?

In the USA, a woman has the right to an abortion at any time, for any reason
whatsoever (birth date would interfere with skiing trip is a real example!),
through all nine months of pregnancy.  Although after the 26th week, abortions
may only be done if the mother's health is affected, the courts have ruled
that anything, even just social factors or a strong desire to not finish the
pregnancy, can be considered health factors.  Only the abortionist need rule
that a woman's health would be affected by continuing the pregnancy.

The best the pro-life campaign has been able to do is, in a small number of
states, is get minor restrictions, such as requiring the woman to be given
educational information about fetal development and a short (1 or 2 day)
waiting period.

Our President-Elect was elected on a platform of getting a law passed which
would prevent states from even putting those simple restrictions on the right
of a woman to walk into an abortion mill and say "please kill my baby right
now."

There are 1.6 million aborted babies each year in the United States.
A number that would make even King Herod proud!

/john
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:09:07 -0600
From:         Joel Neisen <joel@MSC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Questions

> >I was wondering what pentecoste and ash wednesday were for,  can anyone
> Pentecost is the annual commemoration of the day shortly after Our Lord's
> Ascension on which the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles and Disciples
> gathered together.  You can read about it in the second chapter of the Acts
> of the Apostles.  The name means "fiftieth day", because it occurred fifty
> days after the Resurrection.

The name Pentecost does indeed mean "fiftieth day" however,
it was 50 days after the Passover.  I'm not too familiar with Jewish
holidays, but Pentecost was originally a Jewish holidy even before the
descent of the Holy Spirit on thos ein the "upper room".
I seem to recall something about it being a harvest feast, can
anyone else elaborate ?

joel
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Date:         Fri, 1 Jan 1993 08:18:56 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 6

                    Wednesday, January 6, 1993
                         Andre Bassette

I John 4:11-18              Psalm 72            Mark 6:45-52

                        GOING FOR A WALK?

"He came walking toward them on the water." --Mark 6:48

In the Gospels, we see Jesus walking on the water on several occasions.  Once
He got into the boat and the wind died down (Mk 6:51).  Another time, the
boat miraculously covered the three miles to the shore in one second
(Jn 6:19-21).  On another occasion, at Peter's request, Jesus commanded Peter
to walk on the water with Him (Mt 14:28-29).

The Gospels seem to indicate that we have something to say about what effect
the water-walking Jesus has on us.  Most of us think of only one thing when
we're in a storm.  We want peace and safety, and that's what we get, and all
that we get.

If we had more faith, we would be open to Jesus doing more.  The Lord is
willing to get us somewhere fast, to accelerate our growth in holiness, to
speed up our efforts to evangelize, and even to hasten His final coming
(II Pt 3:12).

Few Christians have the faith and boldness of Peter.  We're content to sit in
a boat and watch Jesus walk on water, but we could join Him if we requested
it.  We could walk on the waters of sin and evil.  We could even quickly crush
Satan under our feet (Rm 16:20).  Let's go for a walk.


Prayer:  Father, by faith may I walk on water and not sink.  On this Epiphany,
         give all Christians a new and deeper faith.

Promise: "We should have confidence on the day of judgment; for our relation
          to this world is just like His.  Love has no room for fear."
          --Jn 4:17-18

Praise:  Brother Andre Bessette was known as the "Miracle Man."
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:05:11 -0600
From:         HGM is so incredible <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Financing education (was Queens School Board

        Having taught in a Catholic school, let me just add this (salient)
point to our conversation.  Many Catholic schools are glad to maintain
a certain degree of discipline in their schools (with regard to guns,
drugs, etc.).  To a certain extent, this discipline is maintained by
charging parents fairly high prices, and in turn the parents demand
(speaking generally) something of the students in return.  Few parents
will pay the kind of money it takes to send a kid to Catholic school only
to have the kid completely waste the opportunity.  If a voucher system
were established in this country, and let's say every parent suddenly
had an extra $2000 to spend on private schools per year, it is reasonable
to me that most private schools, including Catholic ones, might
raise their tuition $2000 accordingly, in order to avoid opening up the
schools to the more general public.  Perhaps this is a cynical viewpoint,
but i only raise it having experienced being a student and a teacher
within the private/catholic schools.  If more people have access to
catholic schools, discipline in the schools might be (seen to be)
threatened.  Generally, if parents have to stretch their money toi
(to) send a kid to school, there is more pressure on that student
to be high-caliber.

        Just a few ruminations for you.


Thomas Beaudoin
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Subject: Re: Catholic theological competency
Organization: UW Computing
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:28:42 GMT

In article <9212212214.AA22036@cirrus.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>,         John Weitzel <weitzel@CIRRUS.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> writes:
|> I do not think that all
|> Catholics need to understand Aquinas, Augustine, and Borromeo in depth, but
|> do you not think that we should all know why we are Catholic, how we are
|> saved and how to discuss such with our seperated brethren?


I agree wholeheartedly that there is a major failing to teach CORE doctrine (dogma) in favor of a touchy-feelly religion.  One sees it among religious as well as among laity.  In the first half of this century, religion has swung too far to the rational/scientific side; after Vatican II many swung too far to the emotional/psychological side.  We seems moving towards the center again.

I seems to me that proper religious education has to distinquish carefully between ultimate truths (dogma) which one must believe to the Catholic, traditional truths (Tradition) which is generally believed, and transitional truths - those things that are true at one stage of spiritual development but not necessarily at another.  And within each of these the range of human interpretations (finite grapplings with infinite truths) needs also to be explored so that a re-evaluation of a particular truth does no


t shake one's faith but permits a re-evaluation and re-interpretation that is more mature and comprehensive.

An example of transitional truth is the concept of sin where one first teaches a child by rules, then teaches the older child the principles behind the rules, then as an adult lives by the principles rather than rules, and as one matures spiritually you find the principles themselves slowly changing to be more and more inclusive.  Example:
   child: Don't bite
   older: Don't bite because it hurts someone (and passes on disease)
   adult: If it is harmful to another, you must weigh heavily the consequences to be sure that the good done exceeded the harm done
   mature: Act only out of love as God loves

We seems to always want to simplify religion either to a science or to religious feeling - and end up arguing for religious education that matches our bias.  Only if our religious education includes both can we claim to have truly prepared our children for the spiritual journey.
 
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From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)
Subject: Re: Pro-life prisoner
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:58:24 GMT

In article <199212160447.AA01737@caritas.cotdazr.org>,         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:
|> On Dec 15,  7:38am, Richard A Chonak wrote:
|> } Subject: Re: Asylum (sanctuary)
|> }
|> } A few days ago, Fr Tom Carleton was sentenced to 2 1/2 years imprisonment,
|> } with 2 years suspended.  Since he will not promise to stop protecting unborn
|> } children, he is likely to serve the whole sentence.  A fellow defendant (a
|> } layman whose name I forget), was acquitted.
|> 
|> Richard, do you have an address where we can write to him in jail?

For now, he's still at home; his jail term is scheduled to begin in January.

If I don't remember to post his address then, drop me a line.

---
Richard Aquinas Chonak, norris@athena.mit.edu,                            INTP
I loved rain for making home seem home in a deeper way. --F. Buechner
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Date:         Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:22:20 CST
From:         Cera <kruger@HARDY.MATH.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      A question

        How does a woman who has never even been baptized, much less
had any experience with a church, become a Catholic?
        I don't know for certain that this is the path that I wish to
take. But as I read your discussions and see what you believe, I am
considering it. It's not something I would do lightly, therefore I
am taking a long time to think about whether or not this is the path
I should take.
        Any information would be appreciated.

Cera
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 09:50:45 -0700
From:         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Question about OR

On Dec 24, 11:13am, Jean-Gerard Pailloncy wrote:
} Subject: Question About OR
}         What is the Operation Rescue?
}
} Geepie (France)
}-- End of excerpt from Jean-Gerard Pailloncy

        Operation Rescue is an organization that believes that abortion
is wrong.  In an effort to stop it, members engage in civil disobedience
("rescues") in an effort to prevent babies from being aborted.  Usually
this disobedience takes the form of blockading abortion clinics with
a human chain.

GZ

--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: ajpg1322@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Angelo J. Paguia)
Subject: Re: electronic bible
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:46:08 GMT

I was able to bring a copy of "Share the Word" to work so I can post
the phone number:

Share The Word
Paulist National Catholic Evangelization Association
3031 Fourth Street, N.E.
Washington, D.C.  20017
(202) 832-5022 

The back of the magazine has a form that I can fill up with someone's
name and address that might appreciate a FREE one-year subscription.
If anyone wants it (I have several copies), send email directly to me
(since I will be out for the holidays until Jan.6) with your name,
address, telephone number and I will gladly fill it up for you and
send it out.

It also says that it costs them $10 per year to send it to you (my
error in the previous post) and they request free-will offerings.
There is an annual fee for Canada of $15 and for other foreign
subscriptions of $22.

Merry Christmas, everyone, and may you all see the love of Christ
that bathes each and every human being, and see it always.  This IS
the meaning of Christmas. (Disagreers are welcome).

Glory to God in the highest, and peace to His people on earth.

Angelo
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: diamong@gov.on.ca (Gerald Diamond)
Subject: Re: Vatican on Internet???
Organization: Government of Ontario
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:37:21 GMT

In <1992Dec23.192639.16033@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>bz223@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Danny Guy Frezza) writes:

>>	Does any have any information concerning the Vatican being on the
>>Internet? I wonder if there is available documents, etc.. that are
>>accessible to everyone? I haven't heard of it, but thought I would ask if
>>there does exist an Internet connection to the Vatican.

>Haven't heard that yet.  Right now they are busy getting their astronomy lab
>set up just outside of Phoenix. Stargazing should get us a head start once we 
>find other intelligent life out there.  'Should we suggest baptism to other
>intelligent life?'is currently a hot topic there.

Neat, I wonder how the Sacraments translates if they are (say)
methane-based life or if water is toxic or their entire life is 
lived in a single phase environment or...

Have a blessed Christmas
 
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Gerald Diamond             | diamong@gov.on.ca          |\
                           |                            |  \
I spoke only for myself    | There's never enough time  |    \
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Apparently-To: jrjohns@tenet.edu, catholic@american.edu, anglican@american.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:09:09 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 23-Dec-1992 1204" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject: Re: Pray on Christmas Day for this martyr for Christ

>Is anyone doing anything practical. Like voicing a protest to our
>government?  -- Mary Matejka

Mary, I'm glad you wrote this.  It moved me to get more details on the
story in preparation for making some phone calls to the State Department,
and possibly to the U.S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia.

Fortunately, I found out that it won't be necessary.  The Philippine
Embassy informs me that the Philippine government was able to successfully
negotiate the release of the Philippine missionaries, who will be deported
to the Philippines within the next few days.  I am also informed that the
reports carried on a number of major radio and TV networks that one of them
had been sentenced to death were incorrect.

/john
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)
Subject: Re:      Operation Rescue
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:23:07 GMT

In article <199212160841.AA02299@caritas.cotdazr.org>,         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:
|> On Dec 6,  7:22am, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
|> } Subject: Re: Asylum (sanctuary)
|> }
|> } Hmmm...shame that other OR rescues in this country don't follow 'principles of
|> } non-violent action.' 

Sometimes the abortion-mill staff fabricate charges of violence in order to make
propaganda against OR.  In New Bedford, Massachusetts, one employee claimed that
rescuers pushed a door against her and broke her nose.  She appeared on TV with a
large gauze bandage across the bridge of her nose, and said, "I think they're very
violent".

She had actually broken her nose in a car accident several days prior, and had been
wearing only a "band-aid", but concocted the above story and dressed up her injury
for the cameras.  

Abortion mill employees also regularly lie about the effectiveness of rescues: even
when no-one is seen entering the building but staff and police, they will claim
that "all the procedures scheduled for the day" were performed.

Basically, *any* statement made by abortion mill staff after a rescue should be
considered as probably false.  

--- 
Richard Aquinas Chonak, norris@athena.mit.edu
"Every word she utters is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'." 
	-- Mary McCarthy, on Lillian Hellman
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:20:25 EST
Reply-To:     tfm+Catholic@CS.CMU.EDU
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
              Thomas_McGinnis@SEGNO.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU
From:         Thomas McGinnis <tfm+Catholic@CS.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Twelve Days of Christmas

In article <00965582.D756D560.14740@dragon.com>, cms@DRAGON.COM (Spawn of a
 Jewish Carpenter (Cindy Smith)) writes:
>I found this in the Catholic Digest (January 1993 issue):
>
>From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not allowed to
>practice their faith openly.  During that time someone wrote a carol
>as a catechism for young Catholics.  Each verse has a surface meaning
>as well as a religious meaning.  Here they are:
>
>Twelve drummers drumming -- the beliefs listed in the Creed
>Eleven pipers piping -- the faithful disciples
>Ten lords a-leaping -- the Ten Commandments
>Nine ladies dancing -- the fruits of the Holy Spirit
>Eight maids a-milking -- the Beatitudes
>Seven swans a-swimming -- the gifts of the Holy Spirit
>Six geese a-laying -- the days of creation
>Five golden rings -- the first five books of the Bible
>Four calling birds -- the Gospels
>Three French hens -- faith, hope, and charity
>Two turtle doves -- the Old and New Testaments
>A partridge in a pear tree -- Jesus Christ
>
>   So, now you know the real meaning behind the Twelve Days of Christmas!

 As much as I enjoy Catholic Digest, this information seems pretty ex post
facto, unless you can establish a better allegorical interpretation. The
only verses above that seem (to me, an admitted non-mystic) to remotely
fit their interpretation are the partridge in a pear tree (could be Christ
on the cross), the calling birds (the Gospels are a call), and the geese
a-laying (they are creating). Other than those, it just seems like a counting
song.

 As another example for numerologists: Don't forget that if you are ever
at a loss for a bible, you can use any standard deck of playing cards:

Ace -- one God
Deuce -- two testaments, old and new
Trey -- the Trinity
4 -- evangelists
5 -- wise virgins
6 -- days of the creation
7 -- the sabbath
8 -- good people saved from the flood
9 -- unrepentant lepers
10 -- commandments
Queen -- of Sheba
King -- of all
Knave -- the devil

(You can also use your cards as an almanac, but that's not relevant to this
group :-) )

Pax et Bonum,
Tom.

PS. Merry Christmas, everyone!
--
Thomas F. McGinnis                                     tfm+Catholic@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891
Any opinions are mine except where noted, and not necessarily those of CMU.
spes mea in Deo                               nunc scripsi totum da mihi potum
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Vatican II and Eng Lit
Keywords: Vatican II
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:48:12 GMT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha) writes:

> >The only Catholic author... Andrew Greely.
>
> William F. Buckley writes novels and is catholic.  I listened to the audio
> version of "Right Reason" and he had some comments on the media, mainly films
>

Well, the only reason Greely comes to mind is because he's a priest.  We really
don't identify authors so much by religion as by what they write.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:15:29 MST
From:         Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      My Christmas day with Geraldo R.

     I had never watched the televsion show "Geraldo" before, until Christmas
day.  I was sick with the flu, my wife & kids were out eating Christmas dinner
with other relatives & I was flipping channels looking for a good (or even bad)
 football game on TV.  Flipping across one of the channels, I heard the word
"Medjugorje" mentioned, so I stopped to listen.  On the program were several
people who had experienced or witnessed miracles.  Most of the miracles were
related to Medjugorje.  Wow!, I thought.  I wondered what program would be
nice enough to air such a show.  Then I saw the host - Geraldo.
WOW - another Christmas day miracle!   The show was nicely done.  Geraldo was
pleasant, the audience was enthralled and captivated by the stories.  I even
managed to get most of the show on tape so my family could watch it when they
got home.
     The show certainly made my day better.  I also had to revise my impression
of Geraldo just a bit.

Glad to be back at work instead of home sick,
Brent
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:51:31 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

bobweiss@acsu.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:

> >Randall Terry is a racketeer.  His tactics are no better than the boss of an
> >organized crime family.  I agree with the application of RICO against such a
> >criminal.
>
>       Edward,
>               Thanks for including this bit in your post. I think
> that it speaks volumes about where exactly your sentiments lie.
> I thought that your posts against Operation Rescue reflected more
> propaganda and twist than were warranted. The above is indicative
> of where you are coming from, and will help me filter anything
> further you have to say on OR.
>

Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they feel
to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:45:00 EST
From:         "Alfred S. Chavez" <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: People dropping off the list

Got your recent message on setting the nomail command, which I did lately
while I was out of town.  But what's the magic word to reactivate--I'm
guessing "set catholic mail"??? no?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System)
Subject: Steve Barr and Newman
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:10:19 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.