HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: The name "Taiwan" (was Re: Republic of Formosa)
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:25:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Sep15.202523.16524
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep15.191010.27934@odin.corp.sgi.com> yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang) writes:
>TAIWAN or
>
>  /       \ __\___
> /-----\  \  \||/
>  -----      ----      (sorry for the poor writing 8-) )
>  |   |   /   _7
>  -----       |-
>               J
>
>is the pronunciation translation from both taiwanese and mandarin, right?
>

Well...  Strictly speaking, H"ol"o uses a different
Hanzi for the name [.dai/uan] (or [=dai/uan]).
It used to be written as

            ______
  /         |____|
 /_____\    ______
  _____     |_____|
  |    |    |_____|
  |____|    |_____|
              / \


Native speakers are invited to compare the lexical tones
of "bay" [-uan] and "member" [/uan].  If it were the
former then it would have been pronounced as [-uan]
(i.e. high level tone, as opposed to a low-to-middle rising tone).
The Ch`ing dynasty renamed it with the "bay" character but H"ol"o
speakers continue to pronounce it in the orignal way to this date.

There are evidences that the name "Taiwan" came from the
aboriginal names "Tayovan", "Tajowan"

Pai
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System)
Subject: Re: Language
Reply-To: bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System)
Organization: Med-Systems, Kingsport, Tennessee
Date: 12 Sep 1992 12:16:51 GMT

In article <9209101912.AA14967@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>Don't know why people always want to talk nonsense.
> 
>In article <1992Sep4.214027.3726@beaver.cs.washington.edu> chou@cs.washington.ed
> 
>I hate my neighbor's dog. So I call it Chou.
> 
I believe Mr. Chou Pai is a TI supporter. If you don't agree with him,
you can argue with him. But why insult your comrade? No wonder even
some TIers put you in their kill file.

Chou1
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 04 Sep 92 06:48 PDT
Subject: Seoul's Flunkeyism
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1474900021:000:2166
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Sep  4 06:48:00 1992


quoted from:
 
        "ROK's Diplomatic Unskillfulness Irks Taipei"
        Park Chang-Seok, Ecinomic Editor
        The Korea Herald 1992/09/01
 
the first 30% of the a.m. comment describes the benefits of ROK's switch
from ROC to PRC, but then mainly criticizm concerning the procedure
followed:
 
"... The government seemed to have been in hot haste seeking recognition from
Beijing. First, the principle of reciprocity and equality, a yardstick broadly
used in diplomacy, has not been observed in Seoul-Beijing diplomatic dealing.
China carried through its purpose, maintaining ties with North Korea, while the
ROK was forced to abandon its old chum the ROC ..."
 
"... Controversy over the use of the current ROC's Embassy building symbolizes
the Seoul government's diplomatic unskillfulness ..." [Then reference to US
legislature for ROC to keep embassy building in US.]
 
"... He [an ROC official] said, that Singapore took necessary steps including
the dispatch of government emissaries beforehand to soothe the feelings of
the ROC people ..."
 
"... Critics even say that the hasty normalization of ties with Beijing expo-
sed Seoul government's flunkeyism, its being weak before strong powers and
acting tough with weak nations.
     The Roh Tae-Woo government should have been more polite in handling the
ROC issue in view of its past relations with the Chiang Kai-Shek government
that tremendously assisted Korea get its independence from Japanes colonial
rule." [This probably refers Chiang Kai-Shek's initiative to make the until
then ignored Korea question an issue during the Kairo conference in 1943.]
     Apart from historical relations, there are also other reasons ... to
have been mor earnest in handling the ROC issue ..." [Taiwan different now
from times, when US+Japan severed ties; economic power; world's largest
foreign exchange reserves of 83 bill. US$.]
 
"... The Korean people's love for Taipei has never changed despite the stark
political reality." [Seems to be the reason for predominantly critical comments
in the Korean language press on the Seoul government's handling of the whole
thing.]
 
 
 
Goetz Kluge
Seoul 1992/09/04
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Qing Dynasty
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:12:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:

>**Period:

>1636 A.D. -> 1919 A.D.

>**Dynasty:

>**Area under Central Control:

>.....

Joyous, You did a great job here by giving those islanders
a much wide sight field.

Ze Yang
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 10 Sep 1992 14:33:39 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep4.124023.3689@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (E
ric Law, Geology Department) writes:
=In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) wri
tes:
=> 
=> So, Ho is Huan-Ho(Yellow river) and Lo is Lo-Sway(Lo water).
=> 
=
=       ** So the Holo is Chinese. YOU are a Chinese.
        ** So the Chicken is a chicken. YOU are a chicken.
 
I don't know why people waste their time on this?
I don't know why I am doing this?  ;-(
Because of a chicken?
 
=> 
=> PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
=> biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
=> let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
=> real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
=> e), which is water in Hanzi.
=
=       ** This is a very bad PS. It ruins all you credentials.
=          I bet you flunked your Chinese Geography. 
 
What credentials did I have? Better than yours and is this
why you so worry about it?   ;-(
 
=
=          Hay, do you know where is Dan4 Sui3 Her2 in Taiwan? 
 
You must have flunked your Geography all the time.
 
=
=> Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
=> degrade the oppressor.
=
=       ** I think by this time, you should lose all your confidence
=          about geography. 
 
I do know Eric was killed by his own StormBringer.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders)
Subject: Re: comments on Movie "First Date" by Peter Wang
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <26163@dog.ee.lbl.gov>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:47:05 GMT


This is just a minor point, but Peter Wang made four movies before this one.  
In addition to "A Great Wall" and "Laserman" he was also in "Chan is Missing" 
(Chen2 Shi4 Shi1zong1) and "Ah Ying" (Ban4 Bian1 Ren2).  In "Chan is Missing" 
he played a cook in a San Francisco Chinatown restaurant, while in "Ah Ying" he
was a Director who had gone to Hong Kong to produce a movie with the help of a 
classmate from graduate school days in the U.S. who returned to Hong Kong and 
now has an important job in a movie studio there.  I used to think that Peter 
Wang was a very good actor, especially in light of the fact that he has a Ph.D.
in engineering.  However, he always plays the same kind of character, which 
leads me to believe that he lacks the depth of more professionally trained 
actors.  Likewise, I get the feeling that he is quite impressed with his 
Mandarin, and sometimes i think that scenes or lines are written as a vehicle 
to show off.  Granted, his pronunciation is good.  However, it doesn't take too
long to find things in his speech (be it word choice or word order) which say 
'Taiwan influence' to any trained observer.

Robert Sanders
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa(correction)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:45:51 GMT

>>to begin his own dynasty. What the hell is the difference between TIers
>>and Mao? This is why I hate TI!
>

to begin his own dynasty. What the hell is the difference between KMTers
and Mao? That's why I hate KMT!

Comment: Mao didn't create his own dynasty, he used western calendar, such
as 1949. But, the KMT ruled ROC did start a new dynasty called Ming-Gou 1
year, 2 year, until now it is 80 or what the hell years I'll never remember
and will never try to figure it out. I believe TIers will not to repeat KMT's
stupid mistake.

Yi-Chieh
From: c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Republic of Formosa
Date: 6 Sep 92 10:02:50 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England



Hello every Taiwan Independent supporter:

     I am a Taiwan Independent supporter..... but now I have a very silly
suggestion..........  Why everybody like use " Republic of Taiwan "......
ROT,..... <- I don't like this name....rot name is bad food...or something
very dirty or..... Why we must put "Republic" on country name...... I think
it is very stupid, isn't it..... In the world so many country only have name
for their country....don't need put Repubic..... Like Singapore...
I think if you(mean Taiwan independent supporter) insisted put Republic in
future Taiwan country name..... I hope the name can change to "Republic of
Formosa!!!!! ( ROF ) <- I love this name so much!!!!!!

     Formosa is Taiwan old name....it mean is Taiwan is a beautiful treasure
island............. Taiwan this name is by Chen Zen-Ko name.... but although
the Formosa is Spanish name....but if it is good name why we want to refuse..
.........  I hope Republic of Formosa is Taiwan Future name...... Don't told
again Republic of Taiwan (ROT) <- too bad... mean is dirty,bad food or...)

                                      ROF supporter,
                                          Chin-Yu TSAI

 If you want to blame me or support my idea, you can mail for me.....
My Email address:   c_tsai@uk.ac.brispoly.csd
.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Re: Look ! Smart Taiwanese
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:45:55 GMT

In article <3e6k02Mm20.E01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> hpw10@QUTS.ccc.amdahl.com () writes:
>
>To whoever sent Mr Lu the messages,
>
>I do not know who you are; but I can tell you that besides your bad
>spelling,  your grammar is equally stink.
			 ----------------

So is your grammar. I hope you made a mistake as he did.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:00:48 GMT


In article <Bu7LEA.JAH@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>In article <1992Sep3.120054.24715@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>=
>=I am new to this newsgroup (two weeks only). Within two weeks, I have 
>=already read some hatred messages towards WSR in this newsgroup. Unless 
>=they are not TI advocators (maybe CCP's spies? :-) )
> 
>There have certain Psychos who can feel hate even faceing Saint
>Marry. You are not one of them, are you?  :-(
> 
>=
>=BTW, I have nothing against the idea of TI. Freedom of speech is my position.
>=
>=Tom
> 
> 

Within two weeks, in this newsgroup, you have:

1. suggested Haka and Holo to hate WSR.
2. suggested to move KMTers to Tibet, etc places.
3. called Mandarin-speaking people "barbarian".

That is why your little "nation" (or your mental hospital :-) ) is still 
based in San Jose and you, Mr. whoever, have to hide at the corner to 
attack people. You are not just stupid, but have gone mad completely.
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 10 Sep 1992 14:34:26 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep4.155627.6823@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Ton
g-Kang Li) writes:
=
=But recently I found that some of TIers often label people who have different
=opinion as "Taiwanese Traitor" (Tai2Chien1), etc nasty words. Chiu Chuang-Hwan 
=(former governor of Taiwan) is an example because of his support of indirect 
=Presidental election. These make me wondering what difference between KMT 
=character and TI character and whether after KMT is gone, other KMT-like 
=will come.
 
What do you expect from politicians? Taiwanese politicians are
no better than Bush and Clinton. That's why people has to whach
tose politicians closely and minimize their power as small as
possibe, because government and politicians are born to be evil.
They will try anyway to be evil and people has to try ayway
to prevent them and stop them.
 
=
=But I also feel confident about majority people on Taiwan. People these
=days are much better educated and more politically independent than before. 
=They will make a right choice. 
 
This is what I always said, let people decide their own future.
Taiwanese need not KMT, CCP, DDP or whatever tell them what
to do. Let's have a democratic system, a population vote,
a fair election system and let people elect their own
government, let people decide they want to change the name
of the country or not, let people decide they want to
own Tibet, Mainland China and Mongolia or not.
 
=
=Tom
 
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rchang@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Elvis Lives! )
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:51:30 GMT

li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:


>In article <BuBKLG.2L5@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes...

>Mainland China let HongKong keep capitalism for 50 years. Taiwan can also 
>give the Mainland 50 years to close the gap between Taiwan and the Mainland 
>in economy, political system, particularly, mentality. During the 50 years, 
>Taiwan is an independent country under name of ROC. Taiwan has her own 
>embassies around the world and is UN member, i.e., two Chinas just like two 
>Koreas. After 50 years, if Mainland China is unable to close the gap, Taiwan 
              ^  ^
>can say goodbye to China and is on her own. Fair? 

And if Mainland China can't close the gap in 50 years, should we wait another
50, then another 50.......

*****************************************************************************
	'Yes; QUAINT AND CURIOUS war is!             * rchang@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
 	 You shoot a fellow down                     * rick@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
	 You'd treat if met where any bar is,        ************************
 	 Or help to half-a-crown.'


				Thomas Hardy,
				"The Man He Killed"
***************************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 14:29:59 GMT


In article <BuI6vr.MxM@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes...
> 
>When will the distinction between BSR and WSR be totally lifted?
>IMO, that will be when WSR are willing to speak not only Mandarine
>but also Holo(the biggest language goup in Taiwan) or Holo is
>completely destroied, which has become more and more unlikely.
>I am a BSR and my wife is a WSR. When I heard that some Taiwanese
>Legislators speaking Holo in the conference, I was so excited. But, I
>could feel she was kind of frightened in her subconciousness that
>something has been changed against WSR's profit. Interesting, isn't it?
>Don't be afraid, WSR brothers and sisters. Speaking Holo is a right thing
>to do and it dosen't imply that BSR want to expel WSR. This story
>in my family serves as one of the many proofs of my statement. 
>What do you think?  

I think WSR should learn at least some Holo beacuse its popularity in Taiwan. 
(Paticularly, if they want to be salespeople or politicans). I also think it 
is a good idea to have one language that everyone should speak fluently, ie., 
a common language. I dont mind if it is a English, Holo, or Mandarin as long 
as most people agree to. Otherwise, how many different dialects do we have in 
Taiwan now? And if there is no common language how are we going to communicate 
to each other? Also we should protect other dialects, schools can provide 
optional language courses to those who are interested also media provide 
enough spaces for them, etc...

One common language with coexistence of all languages.

As for Mandarin, Mandarin is not mothertongue to most of WSRs in Taiwan and 
certainly is not mine either. But everyone in Taiwan can speak Mandarin now. 
You may argue it is KMT language policy by mistakes. But remember 2000 
years ago, Chin dynasty unified the Chinese characters so we are all benefit 
from it now. Can you imagine the government has to publish a document with 
many different kind of characters?

I know language is very emotional issue but if you see it as just a 
communication tool. English is now commonly used as a communication tool 
for speaking/writing at most of international conferences but not Mandarin 
and many of us take that well and dont feel any inferior about our language 
and Chinese/Han characters.

Any comments?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:13:38 GMT

In article <BuI6vr.MxM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>
>When will the distinction between BSR and WSR be totally lifted?
>IMO, that will be when WSR are willing to speak not only Mandarine
>but also Holo(the biggest language goup in Taiwan) or Holo is
>completely destroied, which has become more and more unlikely.
>I am a BSR and my wife is a WSR. When I heard that some Taiwanese
>Legislators speaking Holo in the conference, I was so excited. But, I
>could feel she was kind of frightened in her subconciousness that
>something has been changed against WSR's profit. Interesting, isn't it?
>Don't be afraid, WSR brothers and sisters. Speaking Holo is a right thing
>to do and it dosen't imply that BSR want to expel WSR. This story
>in my family serves as one of the many proofs of my statement. 
>What do you think?  

Holo is a elegent and ancient dialect of Chinese. I am all for people speak
any language they prefer in their private conversation, however, I strongly
believe every chinese should use Mandarine in formal occassions, because it
is the official language for a long timethat more people could understand.

Being in U.S. for many years, I am quite dismayed whe I have to use English
to communicate with some chinese who only speak chinese dialect.

Mandarine has been established as the official language for a long time, and
it is the written language as well. Unlike cantonese or Taiwanese, those are
more  spoken languages.

I don't think BSR wants to expel WSR, but a lot of polictians want to exploit
the language differece and provoke hatray between groups, that is rather 
distasteful. For example, couple of years ago when I was in New York, in one
of the TI meeting, people spoke mandarine are rediculed and forced out of the
building violently, I hope those kind of thing won't happen again.

Eric
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:57:20 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor

>     I am a Taiwan Independent supporter..... but now I have a very silly
>suggestion..........  Why everybody like use " Republic of Taiwan "......
>ROT,..... <- I don't like this name....rot name is bad food...or something
>very dirty or..... Why we must put "Republic" on country name...... I think
>it is very stupid, isn't it..... In the world so many country only have name
>for their country....don't need put Repubic..... Like Singapore...
>I think if you(mean Taiwan independent supporter) insisted put Republic in
>future Taiwan country name..... I hope the name can change to "Republic of
>Formosa!!!!! ( ROF ) <- I love this name so much!!!!!!
>

It sounds like the bark of an underdog. Is Taiwan a underdog ?
Well, I can accept that.

Yi-Chieh
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: TW News 16/9/92
Organization: National Univ of Singapore
Source: The Straits Times
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:03:43 GMT


CHINESE OFFICIAL TO HOLD TALKS IN HANOI

HANOI -- Chinese Vice-Foreign Minister Xu Dunxin will open talks with
Vietnamese officials on Friday on the territorial disputes between the
two countries, a Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman said yesterday.

Last month, China sent two oil-exploration vessels into waters claimed
by Vietnam in the Gulf of Tonkin, while Chinese maritime security forces
intercepted several Vietnamese freighters carrying goods from Hongkong
to northern Vietnam.

-ooOoo-

CHINA BOYCOTTING ARMS-CONTROL TALKS IN MOSCOW

WASHINGTON -- China has informed the United States that it is boycotting
multilateral Middle East talks on arms control which began in Mascow
yesterday, a senior State Department official said.

The Chinese said President Bush's decision to sell 150 F-16 fighter jets
to Taiwan two weeks ago would make it difficult for them to co-operate
in arms-control efforts.

Informed sources said that the US and Russia were prepared to go ahead
without China if it persisted in refusing to negotiate improved measures
to control arms sales.  But France felt that it was necessary to keep
China involved, to make the P5 arrangements effective.

-ooOoo-

LET US STAY, CHINESE WIVES URGE TAIPEI

TAIPEI -- Nine Chinese wives of Taiwanese men staged a tearful
demonstration in Parliament yesterday, pleading with the government not
to send them back to China.

The women married in China and came to the island illegally.

Taiwan lifted a 43-year-old ban on immigration by Chinese spouses in
January, setting a quota of 240 annually, but it continues to repatriate
illegal immigrants.

Two legislators urged the government to grant the wives residence
permits or delay their deportation on humanitarian grounds.

But Mr. Chu Wu-hsien, an official of the Cabinet's Mainland Affairs
Council, has said that they would be sent back on Friday although their
children could remain in Taiwan.

-ooOoo-


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens)
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 15:44:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Sep6.100250.29793@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:
>
>.... but although the Formosa is Spanish name....

Wrong.

It's not Spanish, it's Portuguese.

Luc B
From: u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw
Subject: RE: a joke, just a joke
Organization: Computer Center, NCU, Taiwan, R.O.C.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:45:06 GMT


In article <1992Aug30.230116.58515@cc.usu.edu> slzw0@cc.usu.edu writes:
>  Korea has already three major car-making company and another one has
>  just started.  For taiwan, it was turned out to be impossible to build
>  a car  they had to ride motercycle.  That is why there are many
>  motorcycles in Taiwan.

  Are you day dreaming? The Taiwanese government even worry about the lacking
  of parking slots. As for the korean products, they give people the same
  impression, cheap-price & worst-quality. There are NOTHING to be proud of.

>  it is smart idea to listen to the little toy makers (Taiwanese) about cars.

  Yes, maybe in your smart opinion IC is a little toy.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Yishao Lai                    -
= u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw   =
- a320004@ncuce.dnet.ncu.edu.tw -
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan