From: jamie@access.digex.com (James Treworgy)
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: Re: grovels, tickets, tapes, etc...
Date: 18 Dec 1992 14:26:22 GMT
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1992Dec15.222638.2204@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> maggard@subpac.enet.dec.com writes:
>My opinions on the grovel issue:
>
>TICKET GROVELS annoy people.  Shameful, repeated, please-please-please,
>grovels REALLY annoy me, and probably most of the net as well.  Creative,
>well-written grovels like the Jesus grovel are, at a minimum, interesting
>reading (hence my dubious maneuver).

While there are a lot of them, I agree with the other poster:  they are usually
short, and don't waste much net.bandwidth.  They also occasionally work.  If
YOU needed tickets, I hope you would look here before going to a scalper.

>TAPE GROVELS are more annoying than ticket grovels, IMO.  Trees usually get
>run at some point.  Most folks on the net do NOT have any tapes to give you.
>The ones who do post reverse-grovels and tress.  Posting tape grovels is a
>waste of time.  If they're out there, you'll get your chance to sign up on a
>tree.

I heartily disagree with this.  Most folks on the net DO have tapes.
I have had responses to almost EVERY "tape grovel" I have ever posted.
Trees do NOT "usually" get run: as I can assure you from my experience
running several trees they are a pain in the ass and take a lot of
time and effort.  I have seen every tree run since the inception of
Phish Net about a year and a half ago (I believe 10/31/90 was the
first tree, followed by Amy's Farm...) and the total is less than 15.
Believe you me there are a lot more than 15 phish shows on tape out
there, and if ya don't ask ya sure as hell ain't gonna receive.

>Possibly the most annoying posts of all are the "REMOVE ME FROM THE DIGEST
>LIST" messages.  C'mon folks, read the bottom of the damn digest, and then
>send your request to "phish-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu" and *NOT* to
>the general phish-net!  How completely brainless can some people be?!??!
>Don't answer that ;-)

OK fine, these can be avoided... but cut people some slack.  I can live with
one or two of these a week.  It's not a perfect world.

>Suggestions to grovellers:  use personal e-mail first to people you know.
>Use any and all other (non-public) means of trying to get tickets or tapes.

like scalpers?  There are a hundred people I correspond with.  Every time
I am looking for a tape it's a heck of a lot easier to send a message
to the net rather than going through months of old email and sending
a message to every person I have ever talked to.

>If everything else fails, try the public networks -- but be forewarned, if
>you get a reputation for grovelling it's quite probable that the people you
>piss off will not give sell you their extra tickets or trade you tapes.

Well personally I don't keep records of who I see grovelling and who I don't..
if someone asks for a tape which I have and I'm not overly busy I usually
offer to make it for them.

>Have a clue, leave a clue.  Need a clue, get a clue!

What a lovely expression.  Please.  Relax.  This is a public forum as you
have pointed out.  How about being nice to people.  It's very easy to say
"don't do this, don't do that" just because you have lots of tapes, or
you are lucky enough to be able to get tickets to every show you want to
go to.  Give people a break, and hope they'll give you one if you ever need
it.

>- jeff
>
>PS -- If I get good audience DAT's of the Springfield and NYE shows, I'll
>run a tree in January or February.

I am sure the net will be very appreciative.  It's a lot of work.

-- Jamie
-- 
James A. Treworgy
jamie@access.digex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish