HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cvanous@mdd.comm.mot.com (Cindy Vanous)
Subject: Poetry request 
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:55:50 GMT

***DISCLAIMER:***
All of you looking for yet another gothic/sexual boy-aren't-
vampires-sexy-wake-up-in-the-middle-of-the-night-all-sweaty-
gee-I-wish-I-was-a-vampire poem can hit "kill" now, because
you probobly won't like this one.  It has NO half-dressed
women or men, NO fetishist-fodder, NO shallow examinations of
the connection between pain and pleasure, NO steamy seductions.
Sorry.  This one's a bit different ... just an idle thought or
two on the subject of immortality ...


_The Dawn of the Night_

I walked through the world at the dawn of the night
as I now walk the world at its death.
I knew Mother Earth when her spirit was bright
and the night winds were sweet with her breath.

And the Mother, she bore many children.

The Hunt is the method of proving our worth
and to live we must hunt what we can.
As the children of Man hunt the children of Earth
so do I hunt the children of Man.

And the Mother, she smiled on us all.

The children of Man were a plentiful race
but as wary as stags and courageous as bulls.
So the hunt of a Man was a dance of pure grace
like the kill of a deer by the skill of a wolf.

And the Mother, she sent them her spirits.

Those spirits beat strong in each warrior's breast
and those spirits protected their lives.
So many were days that I went to my rest
with my hunger still sharper than knives.

And the Mother, she held all in balance.

So I ran through the nights as the centuries turned
and by day, Mother Earth sheltered me.
And the children of Man found new things they could learn
from their brothers across the great sea.

And in two hundred years, just a moment to me,

the forests of green changed to jungles of steel
and the ground is too poisoned to rest.
Now the thrill of the Hunt I can no longer feel
for the prey is too easy to best.

For they no longer trust to their spirits.

Now the Mother lies broken, she's tired and ill
and she's shackled in concrete and fear.
You're draining her blood with your pipes and your drills
and she screams, but you don't seem to hear.

And I watch as she dies, night by night.

I grieve that Man's children caused such desolation.
I grieve that the spirits are gone from them all.
I grieve that I lived to see Earth's subjugation.
I grieve that I cannot shed tears for her fall.

And yet I ... am what they call evil.


- Cindy Vanous (aka the Cypherkat)  
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: flindholm@mta.ca
Subject: Re: I'm a hypocrite (Was Re: VAMPIRES ARE FOR FAGS!)
Reply-To: flindholm@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:59:28 GMT

In article <BzD0yE.3IJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v094px3a@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brian Mauger) writes:

>What is illogical about wanting to become something strong and enduring?  Not
>that many human desires are based on logic, anyway.
>
>brian

     Actualy, that is the main thing that attracts me to immortality. The
ability to endure. I'm a history major and often wish that I could have seen
history in the making. To actually experiance what life was like during ancient
times up to the present day. Vampires have the unique opportunity to do this.
Even if you were turned into a vampire now, so what? The past may be gone but
the future is yet to come. To know that you will live to see what achievements
mankind will make is what would keep me going through the years.
   However, I think that my enjoyment and excitement for life would be 
greatly reduced if I had to kill people to fufill my own desires.

       Cyrus

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Anne Rice
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:38:34 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis ) writes:

>In article <Bz9xIC.F1s@news.cso.uiuc.edu> apeters2@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Avram (Abe) Peters) writes:

>>could anyone post a listing of Anne Rice's books?
>>I have already read all of the vampire chronicles
>>and would like to know what other books she had written.

>1. Interview with the Vampire
>2. The Vampire Lestat
>3. Queen of the Damned
>4. The Body Snatcher
I think the correct title is "The Tale of the Body Thief"

>5. The Witching Hour
(Part II is in the works, to be published October '93)

>6. The Mummy
Or "Rameses the Damned"

>7. The Feast of All Saints
>8. Cry to Heaven

>As Anne Rampling:
>9. Exit to Eden
>10. Belinda

>As A.N. Roquelaure:
>11. The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty
>12. Beauty's Punishment
>13. Beauty's Release

"The Master of Rampling Gate", based on a short story, is available 
in graphic novel (comic book) form, I think from Innovation.  "The Vampire
Lestat" has already been published as a graphic novel, with the second
and third parts of the chronicles as well as "The Mummy" still being
published as individual (bi- I think) monthlies with the full compilation
to follow.

Two previously deleted chapters of, I think, "Exit to Eden" (I can't
remember off the top of my head) are featured in a gay erotica collection
called "Flesh and the Word". "Prism of the Night", a biography of
Anne Rice has been recently published in paperback, I think adding a
chapter to the original hardcover from last year.

There is an official fan club "The Anne Rice Vampire Lestat Fan Club",
that has a large coven party every October in New Orleans.  Usually
Ms. Rice attends, but this year she actually hosted it in her own home,
the house that was featured in "The Witching Hour".  The news letter
features exclusive interviews with her, as well as up-to-date notes
as to her works in progress, and publicity events.
  
>Rumor here has it that she's working on a version of Frankenstein; perhaps 
>someone else can enlarge on this topic (I'm a relative newbie here too). I 
>think that this story was just made for Rice; can't wait to see it released.
>---------

I have also heard this, but do not recall if it was mentioned in one of the
news letters.  I will try to check.


eternally,

Bil Gonzalez
bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu
From: raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Normals?
Keywords: sick puppies
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:19:45 GMT
Organization: "The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California

rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randolph Sopicki) writes:

> 9217088@ul.ie (Coyote) writes:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >   Just how may of us normal folks(ordinary humans) are out there?
> >
> > There seem to be a lot of sick puppies out there.
> >
> >
> >   ^ ^
> >  Coyote
> >    V    The .sig hunter
> >   ^-^
> >
> >
> >    [insert own quote here]
> 
> I wouldn't call 'em sick. I would just say that they have very vivid
> imaginations.
>  I don't think they really believe alot of what they are saying. They just
> say it to get a reaction.

Agreed, however I also believe that much of the "I'm-a-vampire" posts
are fang-firmly-in-cheek.

Ouch.

-- Raven

"I'm a vampire, you're a vampire, he's a vampire, she's a vampire --
wouldn't you like to be a vampire, too?"

"Be a vampire... drink hemoglobin... be a vampire... drink hemoglobin..."

----------
raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
"The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California -- +1 408 338-9754
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: myddryn@netcom.com (Le Mauvais Sophiste)
Subject: Re: Voluptuous Blood-Sucking Tarts
Keywords: bite slither cleavage
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:17:59 GMT

christ@crash.cts.com (Chris Trichel) writes:
 
>In <ZVTJVB1w165w@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US> nadja@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (nadja) writes:

>>Who says there aren't any voluptuous, seething, low-cut vamps on computer 
>>nets???  Speaking at least for myself (and probably a thousand lucsious 
>>Theda Baras out there on the nets, stalking their electric prey).... 
>>hacks aren't always dumpy asexual four-eyed mopers.  Some of us even type 
>>away in velvet boudoirs, slinking about in gauzy, foggy rooms wearing 
>>little but silk slips and pointy fangs.
B
B
>Sorry but I just HAD to flame on this... There very probably are Voluptuous(read
>as FAT) seething(read as sweaty) low-cut vamps(read as wearing trashy outfits)
>out there... unfortunately there are not many (if any) VAMPIRES (male or female)
>out there.. speaking of which anyone here from our friend at UC Santa Cruz,
>Lestat? or his Vampire friend Gabriel?

tsk tsk. i happen to know a few seething, low cut, tarts on the net
with crowds of worshippers. as to their being vamps or not, i couldn't say.
:)

anyway, who cares wheather vampires are real or not?
who cares if they aren't really lurking about and making someone's life
a little 'interesting'? Its the -idea- that counts. the mood, the feeling.
The touch of velvet and black lace in foggy vision. Carpathian mysteries
roaming under the full moon. That's whats important.

--
Adam Sussman

	myddryn@netcom.com
	asussman@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis )
Subject: Anne Rice mailing list?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:36:13 GMT

I recently heard that there used to be an Anne Rice mailing list; does 
anyone have any info on this? If the list and its creator are gone, how 
would you feel about creating another? 

I think we should wait till after the holidays before restarting the old 
list or starting another; too many people gone. Another problem: with 
alt.fan.anne-rice most of the vampire material would have been cross-posted 
here, enriching both groups. How to achieve this with a mailing list? Post 
exerpts, digests, whatever, periodically?
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis )
Subject: Re: Anne Rice
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:59:45 GMT

In article <Bz9xIC.F1s@news.cso.uiuc.edu> apeters2@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Avram (Abe) Peters) writes:

>could anyone post a listing of Anne Rice's books?
>I have already read all of the vampire chronicles
>and would like to know what other books she had written.

1. Interview with the Vampire
2. The Vampire Lestat
3. Queen of the Damned
4. The Body Snatcher
5. The Witching Hour
6. The Mummy
7. The Feast of All Saints
8. Cry to Heaven

As Anne Rampling:
9. Exit to Eden
10. Belinda

As A.N. Roquelaure:
11. The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty
12. Beauty's Punishment
13. Beauty's Release

13 books...good luck, eh? 1-4 are the Vampire Chronicles. 5 and 6 share 
minor characters, but aren't about vampires. 11- 13 are usually classified 
as "erotica". I haven't read 7- 10 yet, but highly recommend any of the 
others. Rice is at her descriptive best in _Witching Hour_, and _Mummy_ is 
great fun.

Rumor here has it that she's working on a version of Frankenstein; perhaps 
someone else can enlarge on this topic (I'm a relative newbie here too). I 
think that this story was just made for Rice; can't wait to see it released.
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Humanism (personal experience)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:52:29 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1go5l7INNrr4@hpsdl102.sdd.hp.com> pauld@sdd.hp.com (Paul Dillinger) writes:
> 1)  In Christianity, t'shuvah is required.  The NT shows that John the
>Baptist preached repentance, Jesus preached repentance, and the apostles
>preached repentance.

Well, I don't understand Hebrew, so I don't know if t'shuvah==repentence,
but repentance is absolutely required.  I John and James are two books that
spell this out very clearly.

>2)  Although the NT does require certain beliefs, (which is why
>sometimes we call ourselves "believers"), the NT does not state that we
>are required to believe in the God-hood of Jesus. The relationship
>between God and Jesus is debated among Christians: Some feel that the
>two are the same identity, others feel that they are two identities and
>yet part of each other. I think that there are other variations also. I
>would guess that most (if not all) Christians believe that there is one
>God.

I think it is good to hear the words of Yeshua himself. He said:
"For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will
of him who sent me."  (John 6:38)  This is Yeshua's claim of pre-existence
in heaven.

"And now, Father, glorify me in your presense with the glory I had with
you before the world began."  (John 17:5)  This is Yeshua's claim that
his pre-existence was glorious and that he predates the world.

When they were preparing to stone Yeshua "because you, a mere man, claim
to be God," Yeshua answered them:

"Is it not written in your law, 'I have said you are gods'?  If he called
them gods to whom the word of God came -- and the scripture cannot be
broken -- what about the one whom the Father set apart as His very own
and sent into the world?  Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because
I said, 'I am God's son'?  (John 10:34-36)  This does not sound like
Yeshua was trying to correct a misunderstanding.  He didn't say, "No,
you misunderstood me, I wasn't really claiming to be God."  Instead he
rebuked them for not expecting a supernatural Messiah whose origin is
in heaven.

The Apostle John had this to say about Yeshua when concluding the book
of I John, most of which is devoted to explaining the concept that Yeshua,
in his person, is "eternal life" incarnated:

"And we are in him who is true, even in His son Jesus Christ.  He is the
true God and eternal life."  (I John 5:20, NIV)

I don't think it can be stated more clearly than that.
-- 
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: friedenb@frith.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Subject: David Johnson
Reply-To: friedenb@frith.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:30:18 GMT


David.Johnson@f0.n2012.z8.FIDONET.ORG (David Johnson),

Please post an internet or bitnet address where we can reach you.
I have tried to mail a reply to your post, but it gets bounced back.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: cohen@quark.com
Subject: Re: Shalom and the Messiah
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:54:44 GMT


harwood@umiacs.umd.edu (David Harwood) writes:

> It is not a question of the coming of the Messiah, to impose peace, but of
> the desire to receive him. A desire for peace.

Jews believe that once the Messiah comes "nation shall not lift up sword
against nation, and shall not learn war anymore."  Until that happens
(regardles of the reasons it hasn't happened), the Messiah has not arrived.
From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Why Jews Hate Proselytizing
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:10:22 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0

To Mark Kaufman

 MIK>    There have been various recent efforts to link Christianity to 
 MIK> Judaism.  These efforts range from the repeated use of the phrase   
 MIK> "Judeo-Christian" to groups of evangelists refering to themselves
 MIK> as 'Jews' for Jesus.  All of these efforts, calculated to convert 

Rather than attempt to take you on line per line, i will just address your premise.  Christianity as a Faith is not linked to Rabbinic Judaism but rather to Biblical Judaism and the Judaism before the exile.  Rabbinic Judaism was only one sect in Israel during the days of Messiah.  The Messiah came to Israel, was born there, was an Israeli, a Rabbi of Biblical Judaism, now known as Christianity.

So your premise that there are recent attempts to link them together, is JUST PLAIN NONSENSE.. Biblical Judaism and Christianity are ethnically and spiritually intertwined.

All else are johnny come latelies of which Rabbinic Judaism of the 2nd century forward are concoctions of religion that abrogate 80% of the Torah, and dwell on the 20% personal Mitzvot..

The only group of Jews able to perform and keep the Torah are the Torah Jews of Messianic Judaism... 
--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: What Did Judas Betray?
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:17:06 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: hem@col400.col400.att.com

 HEM> Date: 10 Dec 92 19:37:11 GMT
 HEM> Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
 HEM> Message-ID: <1992Dec10.193711.16070@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
 HEM> Newsgroups: alt.messianic

 HEM> In article <141385.2B22E59E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
 HEM> Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson) writes:
 HEM> To: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com >

 >(Also in his comment on Song of Songs 1:3 Rashi explains that
 >"`ALAMOT" (the plural of "`ALMAH") means "B'TULOT" ("virgins").

 HEM> Just as a minor addition, Rashi in Yeshaya comments on the word
 HEM> HaAlmah - "Ishti" my (yeshaya's) wife and this was in the fourth
 HEM> year of Ahaz['s reign].

      But, the context doesn't bear out the insertion of "ishti" in Is.
      7 at that particular verse.  So..., why did you re-quote the ref.
      to Song of Songs above?  Maybe your point just escapes me.

 HEM> Another point is that the word HaAlmah is THE young woman, not A
 HEM> young woman.  That is a woman known to both the speaker (Yeshaya)
 HEM> and the listener (Achaz).

      Well, I wouldn't make an appeal in using "ha" before almah as too
      much in Biblical Hebrew there.  After all, it is often written:
      "Ha"Mashiach, & surely that is spoken of in the future tense in
      Tanakh :-)

... 012 But, woe unto the house that the turnip enters :-) 210        
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Messianic Judiasm
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:35:07 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu

 DK> Date: 10 Dec 92 21:44:07 GMT
 DK> Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info.
 DK> Science Message-ID: <1992Dec10.214407.2193@cis.ohio-state.edu>
 DK> Newsgroups: alt.messianic

 DK> In article <1992Dec9.204241.8318@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>
 DK> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes: >    [note
 DK> followup]

 >In article <1992Dec9.173718.21097@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
 >jwm2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH WILLIAM MITCHELL) writes:

 >>    Israel and the world.  They believe that Jesus came to fulfill
 >>    the Law and the Prophets.  Therefore, how could the Jewish
 >>    people, by accepting the Jewish Messiah become non-Jews.

 >They don't 'become' non-Jews, they practice non-Jewish religion,
 >specifically Christianity.  The reposts below make this abundantly
 >clear.  At any time, a Jew may return to the practice of Judaism.

 DK> Yes, he can, but he would have to go through a special procedure.
 DK> Whether or not he is considered Jewish at the time of practicing
 DK> another religion: I doubt he would be. I understand the name of
 DK> their movement "J4J" as "We used to be Jews". If a person does not
 DK> consider himself Jewish, then hardly is. If a xtian says that he
 DK> is Jewish, would you say he is. Well, of course, an argument is
 DK> that whether or not he was Jewish before?  But that argument is
 DK> from another issue. That issue is whether he can return to Judaism
 DK> or not. But I would not consider him Jewish anymore.

     Orthodox halachah is that: a Jewish neshumah is a Jewish neshumah.
     No..., there is no "re-conversion" to Judaism; but he is
     considered as "a Jew in bad-standing", - but still a Jew.  He is
     quite restricted in what he can preform in a "Judaic" way, that is
     true.  But there are limits, for example, if I recall correctly,
     it is still contrary to halachah to sell a Jew who is of another
     "religion" chametz, as if he were a goy.  And the children of a
     Jewish mother, are considered Jewish per halachah, regardless of
     what "religion" the mother may happen to be or have been.  This
     matter was discussed at length, with Orthodox Rabbi's and
     Lubbavitcher folks on the FIDO Judaica net, with that conclusion.
     I saved the Rabbinic quotes to disk on the subject, but can't find
     them at the moment.  But if you'd like, we can discuss it in more
     depth, if you are in contention with this answer.  But a "good
     Jew" or a "bad Jew", (and HaShem's is the only opinion in the end
     that matters on that), ...a Jew is a Jew his whole life through.

... 012 But, woe unto the house that the turnip enters :-) 210      
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Christians Reject Jesus, Embrace Torah (was Re: Messianic Judaism)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:43:45 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

	     "Leaving Christianity and Becoming B'nai Noah"
	    (Excerpted from The Jewish Voice, December 1992)

ATHENS, TENN. -- One of the men at last month's seventh annual Emmanuel
Conference was the son of a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher who had told
his daughter-in-law to grab her children and flee from her husband who had
surely "gone to the devil."  Hesitantly, an elderly woman softly related that
her children no longer speak to her because she has rejected Jesus.  These
former Christians joined 150 others who had come to this Bible Belt city for
what was in effect a B'nai Noah convention.
     From as far away as Washington State, Texas, and Indiana, they had come
to hear the word of G-d and to find truth in their lives from rabbis.  They
accept only Orthodox Judaism as valid, and believe their obligation is to
abide by the Biblical seven commandments of the Sons of Noah, also known as
the Noahide Laws.
     Many have trod the same path as the leader of the movement, Rev. J.
David Davis, a former Baptist minister in this town, who decided, after 20
years of study that "Christian theology cannot stand up under the microscope
of Torah."  These men and women have traced the historical origins of
Christianity and found that many Christian Bible teachings and stories
devolve from pagan origins and early Church efforts to appeal to the masses.
Jesus, they find, could not have said most of what is attributed to him in
the Christian Bible.
     Searching for man's earliest belief systems, they usually come across
information regarding the Noahide Laws and seek out rabbis willing to teach
them.  Like Rev. Davis, whose Emmanuel Baptist Church is now the Emmanuel
B'nai Noah Congregation, most see no reason to convert to Judaism.  They
simply become B'nai Noah.

...

(Non-Jews who are interested in the B'nai Noah movement can contact Rev.
Davis in Athens, Tennessee.)


-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: api053@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Garion)
Subject: Article 844
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:58:03 GMT

Could anyone please send me the contents of article 844?  It's not available
to me any more and I would like it for reference.  Thanks,

-+* Steve *+-
-- 
________________ Steven J D Graver - api053@uk.ac.coventry.cck _________________
As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God.
My soul thirsts for God, for the living God!
					       Psalm 42 vv1-2