HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: uVAXII clock
Date: 19 Nov 1992 13:56:17 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: sayshell.umd.edu

In article <1992Nov18.140049.199016@rrz.uni-koeln.de> schittel@geo.Uni-Koeln.DE (Christoph Schittel) writes:

>Under VMS a uVAX keeps time very well. What about
>Ultrix on uVAX? Is it a good idea to use an old
>uVAXII (in constant temperature environment) as stratum
>1 server?

Given that a MicroVAX-II CPU's clock only has a resolution of 20ms,
this is some new interpretation of "keeps time very well."  

The problem with the MicroVAX-II interval timer (which is used to keep
time on the running system by periodically generating interrupts) is
that you cannot determine the time remaining until the next interval
timer interrupt, so you stuck with the resolution that corresponds to
how frequently the interval timer is programmed to generate
interrupts.  This is (on 4.3 BSD systems) 20ms.

While it may be that the clock doesn't drift very badly, the fact that
the resolution is only 20ms somewhat precludes it as a good source of
time for others.

louie
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Using NTP for long term network monitoring
Date: 18 Nov 1992 06:24:14 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Hi.  We have some long-haul connections that are not behaving as
well as I think they should be, and I'd like to get some long term
baseline performance data on the links to see if my suspicions
are correct.

Does anyone have tools already put together to generate
reports out of cron-scheduled 'ntpdc' billboard dumps?  The idea
is to snapshot the clocks every so often and see how delay and
dispersion move over the course of the day, day of the week,
phase of the moon and all that.  This should be able to catch
network bobbles that the usual quick 'ping' bursts don't find.

Thanks for any help or suggestions you might have.  I don't know 
that I've heard of NTP written up anywhere as a network diagnostic
tool, if anyone can chase down any papers (usenix, sug, ietf or
what have you) that would be great.  

  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 GLOB

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: szeliga@soils.umn.edu (Tim Szeliga - NWS)
Subject: HP9000 ntp - Do I Need it?
Summary: Need to have or Nice to have?
Keywords: ntp
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:17:22 GMT



I've downloaded the xntp+hp-1.30 code from an HP archive
for my HP 9000.  I guess I'm a little unclear on the big picture.
There are two HP 9000's and 3 RS6000's here as well as a dozen PC's
and OS/2 machines.  Do I compile ntp for each of the workstations
and get them to lock onto one station acting as the standard?

My second question is I also have a Heath World's Most Accurate Clock,
picking up WWV's signal from Boulder.  We have an RS-232 port on the
clock that continually updates at 2400 baud.  We feed it into a PC
COM2 and use the signal to adjust the time for the PC driving the
satellite tracking system.  
 1. Can ntp use the output of WMAC, as two recent posters have asked?
 2. If I got an authoritative time on the workstation, could the WS
    output the signal to the PC?

Is this program specifically for getting your local systems in sync or 
can you connect thru the Internet to NIST.GOV or utoronto.edu or
udel or some stratum 1 site to get an authoritative time-code?

Lastly, is this really necessary for our site?  We definitely need a
good timecode to drive the satellite dish from the PC.  We adjust
the time manually to the readout of WMAC occaisionally.  It doesn't
really matter for our applications that the time stamps are correct.
Is this a "nice-to-have" rather than a "need-to-have" for us?

I'd appreciate any comments.

Tim Szeliga   tim@snow.nohrsc.nws.gov

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: dbrillha@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart)
Subject: Where is the FAQ - new reader
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:40:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Reply-To: dbrillha@dave.mis.semi.harris.com
Organization: Harris Semiconductor
Keywords: FAQ
Summary: FAQ for new reader

I'd like to read up on the FAQ for this group before asking a lot
of dumb questions. 

First dumb question - where can I find an FAQ?

Thanks,

-- Dave
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
From: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Subject: Need server for U of Oklahoma, Norman
Originator: usenet@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:39:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Keywords: ntpdate
Followup-To: comp.protocols.time.ntp

Can someone supply me with a server on the University of Oklahoma at
Norman to synchronize with?  I used to use orion.ecn.uoknor.edu and that
no longer works.  [I've called several people at OU and no one seem to
be able to supply a machine name]  All I get now on boot is the
following message:

/usr/local/sbin/ntpdate: no suitable server for synchronization found

The clock on my Sparcstation has drifted nearly 5 minutes within a
week!  Thanks in advance.

-- 
Mike Richman                        !CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma
richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu   !100 East Boyd, Room 1110
405-325-3460 (office) 325-7614 (fax)!Norman, OK  73019-0628  USA
From: nancyf@sug.org (Nancy Frishberg)
Newsgroups: comp.std.unix
Subject: Tutorial (12/7, San Jose) - Programming in Posix (Sun User Group Conference)
Date: 15 Nov 1992 13:04:44 -0800
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net
Keywords: posix seminars tutorials
X-Submissions: std-unix@uunet.uu.net

Submitted-by: nancyf@sug.org (Nancy Frishberg)

If you're concerned about Posix-conforming systems,  plan to be at the
Sun User Group Conference (San Jose Convention Center) on Monday,
December 7, 1992. The Conference and Exhibition extends through Thursday.

In the all-day tutorial "Programming in Posix,", Jeffrey Haemer
(Canary Software) will offer the programmer an overview of Posix, why
it's interesting and important, what it encompasses and how to use the
Posix interfaces to create standard, portable applications.

Special offer: 5 full conference registrations (each includes a day of 
tutorial) for the price of 4 when preregistering with a single payment.

Other full-day tutorials:
Advanced Unix Security (Matt Bishop, Dartmouth College)
Preparing for Disaster (a.m. - Brent Chapman, Great Circle Associates),
  plus, Why have Computer Security? (p.m. Bob Baldwin, Tandem Computers)
Sun Network Debugging (Smoot Carl-Mitchell, Texas Internet Consulting)
Topics in Perl (Tom Christiansen, Convex Computer Corporation)	
Programming in POSIX (Jeffrey S. Haemer, Canary Software)	
UNIX Programming Tools (Kenneth Ingham, consultant)
The Internet and its Protocols (William LeFebvre, Northwestern University)
Introduction to UNIX System Administration (Dinah McNutt, Tivoli Systems)
Integrating C Code and Xt Widgets (Craig Rudlin, MD, Medical Software and Computer Systems)

If you just want to go to the exhibits, ask for a free show-only pass.

To get more information by email about these tutorials, the technical
program, or exhibits at the Sun User Group conference, send requests
to sugshow@sug.org .

You will receive the full tutorials and program description with
registration information.  Or call 1-800/727-EXPO.  (Outside the U.S.,
use 512/331-7761 (voice) or 512/331-3950 (FAX).)  

-- 
Nancy Frishberg, Sun User Group.

Volume-Number: Volume 29, Number 69
Xref: sparky comp.std.unix:462 comp.std.c:3022
From: steve@taumet.com (Steve Clamage)
Newsgroups: comp.std.unix,comp.std.c
Subject: Re: Header files and "hidden built-in type hacks".
Date: 17 Nov 1992 22:16:56 -0800
Organization: TauMetric Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net
X-Submissions: std-unix@uunet.uu.net

Submitted-by: steve@taumet.com (Steve Clamage)

rfg@netcom.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) writes:
>My first question is simply this.  Is the practice of avoiding definition
>of a va_list type in <stdio.h> strictly required by the ANSI C standard?
>My (naive?) believe is that this practice *is* required in order to avoid
>non-standard pollution of the user's namespace.

ANSI section 4.1.2.1 in conjunction with 4.8 and 4.9 makes it very clear
that <stdio.h> cannot define the identifier "va_list".  It is legal for
a user program to include <stdio.h> without including <stdarg.h>.  If
<stdarg.h> is not included, the identifier va_list is not reserved.
Hence hacks like __va_list which are a conforming way around the problem.

>My second question is also a simple one.  In what other cases are such
>"hidden built-in type hacks" required as a result of other requirements
>in the ANSI C standard (or in POSIX 1003.1-1990)?

I can't speak to the POSIX question.  Any identifier which is not
reserved according to 4.1.2.1 and which is implicitly referenced but
not defined by a Standard C header must have some sort of work-around.
(Only those identifiers not otherwise reserved may be defined in a
conforming Standard C header.)

Some types, like size_t, must be defined in more than one header.
This means that some workaround is needed for these types as well
to avoid multiple definitions.
-- 

Steve Clamage, TauMetric Corp, steve@taumet.com
Vice Chair, ANSI C++ Committee, X3J16


Volume-Number: Volume 29, Number 72
Xref: sparky comp.std.unix:460 comp.std.c:3008
From: gavriel@socrates.umd.edu (Nick Gavrielatos)
Newsgroups: comp.std.unix
Subject: Re: Open Systems Benchmark
Date: 17 Nov 1992 22:13:54 -0800
Organization: University of Maryland University College
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net
Keywords: Open Systems Benchmark
X-Submissions: std-unix@uunet.uu.net

Submitted-by: gavriel@socrates.umd.edu (Nick Gavrielatos)

I am preparing a work on Adoptation of Unix in Europe.
Does anyone have any info(even old postings from this 
group) which you can possibly mail me via personal mail?

Thank you very much, 

Nick Gavrielatos
gavriel@socrates.umd.edu

Volume-Number: Volume 29, Number 71
Xref: sparky comp.std.unix:463 comp.std.c:3023
From: diamond@jit345.bad.jit.dec.com (Norman Diamond)
Newsgroups: comp.std.unix,comp.std.c
Subject: Re: Header files and "hidden built-in type hacks".
Followup-To: comp.std.c
Date: 17 Nov 1992 22:20:36 -0800
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Japan , Tokyo
Reply-To: diamond@jit.dec.com (Norman Diamond)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net
X-Submissions: std-unix@uunet.uu.net

Submitted-by: diamond@jit345.bad.jit.dec.com (Norman Diamond)

In article <1e6nslINN4rd@ftp.UU.NET> rfg@netcom.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) writes:
>Certain of the functions which must be declared (preferably with prototypes)
>in the <stdio.h> file (e.g. vprintf) are defined (by the ANSI C standard) to
>take arguments of type `va_list'.

If a user's program declares printf instead of doing #include <stdio.h> then
the user's program must include a prototype with ellipsis ", ...".
If you're talking about the internals of the implementation's <stdio.h> then
the implementation is allowed to encode the declarations however it likes,
not necessarily encoded in the C language, not necessarily using prototypes
-- the implementation can choose any method that works for itself.

>But careful implementors know that if `va_list' is declared whever <stdio.h>
>is included, this will cause an small but unnecessary (and possibly illegal)
>pollution of the user's namespace.
>My first question is simply this.  Is the practice of avoiding definition
>of a va_list type in <stdio.h> strictly required by the ANSI C standard?

Yes.  s/possibly//  And carelessness yields non-conforming implementations.

>In what other cases are such "hidden built-in type hacks" required as a result
>of other requirements in the ANSI C standard (or in POSIX 1003.1-1990)?

It's probably easiest to encode hidden built-in type hacks for EVERYTHING and
avoid exactly this worry (assuming that you're an implementor).

[Examples deleted:  size_t in <time.h> and time_t in <sys/stat.h>]

ANSI C section 4.12.1, page 171 line 12, says that <time.h> declares size_t.
I don't have the POSIX standard.

--
Norman Diamond       diamond@jit081.enet.dec.com
If this were the company's opinion, I wouldn't be allowed to post it.
"It's been a lovely recession."

[ Note followup-to: line, please.  Thanks -- mod ]

Volume-Number: Volume 29, Number 73
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery)
Newsgroups: comp.std.misc
Subject: Re: POSIX means *Binary* Compatibility ! NOT !
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:10:51 GMT
Followup-To: comp.std.misc
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.

Some quotes from the standard: 

"The purpose of [POSIX] is to define a standard operating system
 interface ... to support application portability at the source
 level."	(POSIX.1, pg ix, lines 1-3).

"Source, Not Object, Portability
 This part of [POSIX] has been written so that a program written and
 translated for execution on one conforming implementation may also be
 translated for execution on another conforming implementation.  This
 part of [POSIX] does not guarantee that executable (object or binary)
 code will execute under a different conforming implementation than
 that for which it was translated, even if the underlying hardware is
 identical."   (POSIX.1, page xii, lines 115-122)

If someone paid "money" for the advice that POSIX is "binary
compatable", he should get his money back from a consultant who
obviously hasn't read the POSIX.1 standard.

				dave emery
Newsgroups: comp.std.misc
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Subject: Unicode
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:01:31 GMT

I'd like to obtain the specs and info on Unicode.  How would I go about doing
this?  Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@multisys.com                | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
From: jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman)
Subject: Re: ISO Latin 1 text presentation with 7-bit ASCII
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:02:39 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

I would suggest th, TH, dh, DH for eth, Eth, thorn, Thorn, resp.

Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen Hellingman                 E-mail: <jhelling@cs.ruu.nl>
't Zand 2                         Phone: +31-3473-73935 (home)
4133 TB Vianen                    (18.00--21.00 GMT)
The Netherlands                   Answer in English, German, or Dutch.
From: heimir@plusplus.is (Heimir Thor Sverrisson)
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
Subject: Re: ISO Latin 1 text presentation with 7-bit ASCII
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:02:25 GMT
Organization: Plusplus Inc., Reykjavik, Iceland

keld@login.dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen) writes:

>jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman) writes:

>>I would suggest th, TH, dh, DH for eth, Eth, thorn, Thorn, resp.

>Oh? Eth is normally considered a 'd' and Thorn a 'th'.
>Did you mix up things? :-)

Yes, please just use 'd' for 'eth' and 'th' for thorn.  I'm used to
write my middle name as 'Thor' not 'Tor' and never 'Por'!!
The meaning of icelandic text can normally be figured out even though
eth's are replaced by d's, so there is no need to add an extra 'h'.
-- 
Heimir Thor Sverrisson		|		heimir@plusplus.is
Plusplus Inc.			|
Laugavegi 13			|		Tel: +354-1-620 250
108 Reykjavik, ICELAND		|		Fax: +354-1-622 819
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
From: ojarnef@admin.kth.se (Olle Jarnefors)
Subject: Re: Names of Stds. Institutes in Iceland and Luxemburg?
Summary: IS: STR<I acute>, Icelandic Council for Standardization
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:49:31 GMT

Antoni Drudis <antoni@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> asked some time ago
(Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:38:08 GMT):

> Does anyone knows the acronyms (and names) of the standardization
> bodies in Iceland and Luxemburg?

For Iceland:

Acronym:
   STR<I acute>
Name:
   Icelandic Council for Standardization
Address:
   I<eth>nt<ae>knistofnun <I acute>slands
   Keldnaholti
   IS-112 Reykjavik
   Iceland
Telefax:
   +354-1-687409

/Olle

--
Olle J<a diaeresis>rnefors         Internet: ojarnef@admin.kth.se
Information Management Services        UUCP: ...!uunet!mcsun!sunic!kth!ojarnef
Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)  BITNET: ojarnef@sekth  Fax:+46 8 10 25 10
S-100 44  Stockholm, Sweden           Phone: +46 8 790 71 26 (time zone +0100)
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
From: keld@login.dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen)
Subject: Re: ISO Latin 1 text presentation with 7-bit ASCII
Organization: DKnet
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:33:28 GMT

jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman) writes:

>I would suggest th, TH, dh, DH for eth, Eth, thorn, Thorn, resp.

Oh? Eth is normally considered a 'd' and Thorn a 'th'.
Did you mix up things? :-)

keld
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
From: eggert@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: Re: ISO Latin 1 text presentation with 7-bit ASCII
Organization: Twin Sun, Inc
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:08:05 GMT

mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn) writes:

>       !   c   ?   ?   Y   |   ?   " (c)   a  <<   ?   - (R)    
>   ? +/-   2   3   '  mu   P   .   ,   1   o  >> 1/4 1/2 3/4   ?
>   A   A   A   A  Ae   A  AE   C   E   E   E   E   I   I   I   I
>   D   N   O   O   O   O  Oe   x   O   U   U   U  Ue   Y   P  ss
>   a   a   a   a  ae   a  ae   c   e   e   e   e   i   i   i   i
>   d   n   o   o   o   o  oe   :   o   u   u   u  ue   y   p   y

>Could you experts please have a quick look at this table and tell me,
>whether it is also acceptable outside Germany or if any improvements
>are possible?

This area is controversial, but you might look at K. Simonsen,
``Character Mnemonics & Character Sets'', Internet RFC 1345 (June
1992).  It's not a standard, but it suggests mnemonics for a large
variety of character sets, including ISO Latin 1.  Here are the
two-character mnemonics that it suggests for the upper half of Latin 1,
in a similar format to that quoted above.

 NS !I Ct Pd Cu Ye BB SE ': Co -a << NO -- Rg 'm
 DG +- 2S 3S '' My PI .M ', 1S -o >> 14 12 34 ?I
 A! A' A> A? A: AA AE C, E! E' E> E: I! I' I> I:
 D- N? O! O' O> O? O: *X O/ U! U' U> U: Y' TH ss
 a! a' a> a? a: aa ae c, e! e' e> e: i! i' i> i:
 d- n? o! o' o> o? o: -: o/ u! u' u> u: y' th y:
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
From: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
Subject: ISO Latin 1 text presentation with 7-bit ASCII
Reply-To: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:14:26 GMT

I want to include a feature in several public domain systems where the
character set ISO 8859-1 is used for textes and identifiers (e.g. gopher).
People with old 7-bit-ASCII-only terminals have some problems reading 
textes with Latin 1 G1 characters, so it would be nice to be able to convert
these characters to similar ASCII characters. This is always an emergency
solution, but still much better than just stripping off bit 8 or displaying
a question mark.

Supposed there is no problem if the converted text is a few characters longer
than the original one. At the moment, I use the following table:


/* Conversion table for displaying the G1 set (0xa0-0xff) of
   ISO Latin 1 (ISO 8859-1) with 7-bit ASCII characters.
   Suggestions for improvement are welcome!

   Markus Kuhn <mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>     */

static char *iso2asc[96] = {
  " ","!","c","?","?","Y","|","?","\"","(c)","a","<<","?","-","(R)"," ",
  "?","+/-","2","3","'","mu","P",".",",","1","o",">>","1/4","1/2","3/4","?",
  "A","A","A","A","Ae","A","AE","C","E","E","E","E","I","I","I","I",
  "D","N","O","O","O","O","Oe","x","O","U","U","U","Ue","Y","P","ss",
  "a","a","a","a","ae","a","ae","c","e","e","e","e","i","i","i","i",
  "d","n","o","o","o","o","oe",":","o","u","u","u","ue","y","p","y"
};

or in a more readable format:

       !   c   ?   ?   Y   |   ?   " (c)   a  <<   ?   - (R)    
   ? +/-   2   3   '  mu   P   .   ,   1   o  >> 1/4 1/2 3/4   ?
   A   A   A   A  Ae   A  AE   C   E   E   E   E   I   I   I   I
   D   N   O   O   O   O  Oe   x   O   U   U   U  Ue   Y   P  ss
   a   a   a   a  ae   a  ae   c   e   e   e   e   i   i   i   i
   d   n   o   o   o   o  oe   :   o   u   u   u  ue   y   p   y

Could you experts please have a quick look at this table and tell me,
whether it is also acceptable outside Germany or if any improvements
are possible? I don't know much about the replacement characters used
by people in other languages if they are forced to use ASCII. E.g.
what about the characters ETH and THOR (d,D,p,P is just my guess)?

Are there even any national standards?

Markus

-- 
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -=-=- University of Erlangen, Germany
Internet: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  |  X.500 entry available
--- Wer, wie, was? Wieso, weshalb, warum? Wer nichts fragt bleibt dumm. ---
Newsgroups: comp.std.c++
From: pete@borland.com (Pete Becker)
Subject: Re: Recursive templates
Originator: pete@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:21:52 GMT

In article <Bxu3J4.F93@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pl2440@meibm31.cen.uiuc.edu (Paul Jay Lucas) writes:
>
>*****>	Has anyone got a *real* justification for this?  This is a very
>	obfuscated way of writing factorial.

	Has anyone got a *real* justification for recursive functions?  They
just provide a very obfuscated way of writing factorial().
	The point of my original posting was simply that there is no work to
be done to specify how such things work, because they already work in exactly
the way you'd expect.  Whether there are useful things that can be done with
such constructs is left as an exercise for the reader...
	-- Pete
From: jbn@lulea.trab.se (Johan Bengtsson)
Newsgroups: comp.std.c++
Subject: Re: Recursive templates
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:28:21 GMT
Organization: Telia Research AB, Aurorum 6, 951 75 Lulea, Sweden
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pl2440@meibm31.cen.uiuc.edu (Paul Jay Lucas) writes:
: In <1992Nov16.220526.21566@borland.com> pete@borland.com (Pete Becker) writes:
: 
: >In article <83733@ut-emx.uucp> jamshid@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Jamshid Afshar) writes:
: >>Has ANSI decided anything about the expansion of a recursive template
: >>definition?
: 
: >	template <unsigned n> class Factorial
: >	{
: >	public:
: >		unsigned eval() { return n*Factorial<n-1>.eval(); }
: >	};
: 
: >	class Factorial<0>
: >	{
: >	public:
: >		unsigned eval() { return 1; }
: >	};
: 
: >	#include <iostream.h>
: 
: >	int main()
: >	{
: >	Factorial<6> f6;
: >	cout << f6.eval() << endl;
: >	return 0;
: >	}
: 
: *****>	Has anyone got a *real* justification for this?  This is a very
: 	obfuscated way of writing factorial.

You should be able to base binary trees on unary trees (which are degenerate
trees more commonly known as linked lists), trinary trees could be
based on binary trees, and n-ary trees could be based on (n-1)-ary trees.

N-dimension matrixes should be possible to base on N-1-dimension matrixes,
with 1-dimensional matrixes (arrays) as the recursion-stopper.

The details are left as an exercise for the reader (:-).
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Johan Bengtsson, Telia Research AB, Aurorum 6, S-951 75 Lulea, Sweden  |
| Johan.Bengtsson@lulea.trab.se; Voice:(+46)92075471; Fax:(+46)92075490  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.std.c++