From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM SUCKS!
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:22:50 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <TOMSTER.92Sep28200453@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, tomster@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Thomas Richard Dibble) writes:
> In article <6051.2ac3aa51@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
> 
>    RE: PC Applications. If you develop for Windows, it ain't any easier. If you
>    develop for DOS, your applications are easier because they do less. Hence, you
>    aren't comparing equivalent things.
> 
> What?  They do LESS?

Yup.

There's a lot of stuff you have to do in a graphic user interface like the
Mac (or <sigh> Windows) that you don't have to do under DOS. This stuff is
part of every application.

Take the user interface for example. You don't have to have any user interface
under DOS. Maybe some stuff on the command line. There's no standards for
even what you would display.

On the Mac, you have to have a user interface. And you have to be able to
crank up desk accessories. You have to be prepared to handle files when
opened or dropped on your application. You have to be prepared to be
switched to the background. You have to be prepared for your interface to
operate with differing bit depths, with and without color.

You don't have to do this under DOS. Hence, your program does less.

> I don't know what kind of panty-ass programs *you* have been writing,
> but I can get DOS to do quite impressive things.  

I don't feel that the programs I write are "panty-ass." Nor do I have
any idea what you feel is "impressive". I have a feeling that you have a
vastly different idea that I about the meaning of the word.

> That's neglecting direct
> hardware manipulation.  Can you even get CLOSE to manipulating the hardware
> on a MAC?

You can. Apple recommends against it. That's because when the OS changes due
to future improvements, or the hardware changes due to future improvements,
your tremendous hardware hack will break. That's certainly doing a disservice
to your users.

Fortunately, Apple has excellent software interfaces to manipulate the hardware
in just about every fashion. Further, they have guidelines created to tell
you how they expect applications to act. This helps both the developer and the
user. The developer knows what he has to do, and the user gets applications
that act consistantly.

>    Perhaps you ought to look up a few studies that were done
>    a few years ago (some were sponsered by Apple, others were independant) that
>    showed that while PCs had lower hardware investment, when you added in the
>    additional costs of maintainence and training, Macs were actually cheaper!
> 
> The same ones that say it costs $6000 to buy a computer that runs Windows?
> Give me a break.

No, this was done earlier. However, about that ad: I think you are throwing 
the baby out with the bath water.

I have that Ad posted on my cube wall. Apple marketing did some creative 
accounting with the numbers. While I can fault their summation, I can't
fault their message. PCs may give the appearance of being cheaper, but 
when you factor in all the costs involved, the scales tip toward the Macintosh
solution.

>    And that was a few years ago, before the introduction of lower cost Macs.
>    While PC hardware has gotten even cheaper, those maintainence and training
>    costs haven't!
> 
> I beg to differ.  Have you bought and/or maintained a pc built in the last
> year or so, Mr. Apple Spokeman?  

Nope. I think I've sold my DOS machine. I had a Tandy laptop for my wife. We
replaced it this year with a PB 100. That leaves me with three Macs and no
PCs. I'm happy.

> It is quite difficult to get a machine which will break on you.  

I think you are confusing the issue. I said maintainence. That includes
setup and on-going support. You seem to be confusing the word maintainence
with repairs. While repairs are a part of maintainence, they aren't the
only part.

And you didn't even touch the training issue.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
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Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy