From: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Did the world end already?
Date: 29 Aug 92 05:19:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes:

>	Could some knowledgeable person tell how Christians explain the
>various NT passages where Jesus claims that the end is IMMINENT, and that
>some of his disciples would live to see it?  I can't provide a verse 
>reference, but I believe the Gospels make this claim more than once.
>	Seems kind of hard to reconcile this sort of statement to our
>continued existence here.  Hey, maybe the world did end already, and
>we've all apparently wound up in hell! :-)

I suspect you're thinking of a single statement, which appears in all
three synoptics, Mat 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27.  The form in Mark is
"Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste
death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."
The problem is figuring out what is meant by the kingdom of God.  In
Jesus' teaching it has both a future and a present aspect.  Jesus'
mission on earth was to bring the kingdom about.  It is present
whereever he is with his followers.  However it will not be fully in
control until the second coming, so the coming of the kingdom
sometimes means that.  This passage follows a discussion of Jesus'
coming death, though the immediately preceding verse refers to Jesus'
coming in glory at the end.  Many interpreters think it's referring to
his resurrection, which serves to make visible the glory of the
kingdom as it is present now.  Note by the way, that it does not say
"some here won't die, because the kingdom will come first."  Rather,
it says "some won't die until they have seen the kingdom."  This seems
to make it more likely that it's referring to the kingdom present with
us, not the second coming.

A number of scholars believe that Jesus preached an imminent second
coming.  They see signs in some of Paul's letters of Christians who
are upset when the first generation of Christians starts dying off
without Jesus coming back.  Unfortunately we see only Paul's replies,
not what the other side is saying, so it's hard to be sure exactly
what they said.  I don't think this is the most likely interpretation.
The problem with the view that Jesus preached an imminent coming is
that most forms of this theory emphasize one part of his teaching,
ignoring the parts where he talks about the kingdom as a present
reality.  I think scholars these days are trying to maintain a
balanced picture.  In such pictures, it's less common to say that
Jesus was expecting an immediate second coming, though some people
certainly still think he taught that.

What is clear is that Jesus told people to be prepared.  There are
lots of parables about keeping your affairs in order, so that you will
be ready.  However this does not imply any particular date, and in
fact it's not always clear whether what you're supposed to be ready
for is the second coming, or your death and coming before God in
judgement.

By the way, Jesus specifically disavows knowing when the second coming
will take place, Mat 24:36 = Mk 13:32, "But the day or hour no one
knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the
Father."
Newsgroups: alt.atheism