HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vinnieb@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu (Vince Bafetti)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Mountain Bike Recommendation
Date: 13 Dec 1992 06:08:39 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu

	Here's the question: what bike would you recommend for
someone who:
	1) Has no real experience riding (yet)
	2) Wants to spend around $500 or less
	3) Wishes to ride light trails and city commutes
		(in other words, no real hard-core stuff at first)
	4) Wants a sexy-looking bike
	
	I've looked at Trek bikes so far, like the 830 and 920. But,
what about Giant, or Cannondale, or Specialized bikes?
	Also, what component sets? 

	Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

		Vince Bafetti
		
		vinnieb@ssl.berkeley.edu
From: rafael@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Ralph Grundler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: anodization bash(was MTB:  Rim recommendations needed)
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:23:33 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


  Jobst Brandt writes:
: 
: Hard anodizing is a proper designation of an electrolytic process to
: convert the surface of aluminum alloys to a hard oxide coating.  It


	You are correct.  The process is the same as normal anodizing, however the sufuric acid bath is cooled to 30-50F and the current density is increased to25-35 amp/ft^2.  Normal sufuric anodizing (there is chromic as well) the bath temp is 68-70F and the current around 12 amp/ft^2.  The advantage of cold bath anodizing over normal anodizing is the coating thickness is increased over the same amount of time.  The disadvantage is the work can be "burned" or damaged if one of two things: 1) The alloy use conta

ins more than 3% copper and 7% Si; 2) The temp of the bath becomes higher than recomended.


: has nothing to do with heat treating and in most cases the dark
: colored rims are made of non heat treatable alloys.  The process
: does not strengthen the rim structurally although it makes is more
: scratch resistant. 


	False and True:  The affect of anodizing is greatly reduce if the material is not heat treated or tempered.  A well prepaired rim will result in a clear looking anodization.  The process does harden the material. You confirm this.  This is shown in test where the materal is put through fatigue-strength cycles. Normal 6061 aluminum can withstand 1 million, 15,000 psi cycles. Anodized 6061 can withstand 1 million cycles at 6000 psi.  A material that is harder tends to bend less easly.  And as you state make

 it more scrach resistant.

	The rims with the black lake bed affect I believe are burned rims or rims where the process is not done properly.  The other possibillity is the rims are not anodized at all.  Burned rims look more pitted.  There are "Chemical Conversion Coatings"  that would result in the affect you describe.  These coatings actualy remove material and would make the rim much weaker. 

	There are so many variables in affecting the outcome of anodizing that one cannot say "all anodized rims are bad".  And that folks, was my only point in my original post.

Thanks for time,

	Ralph Grundler

PS. My apologies to everone I've misled with Hard Anodized. Silly Me.
From: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM (William Shannon(temp))
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Kevlar tires and flats
Date: 17 Dec 1992 22:15:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: jetson

	Hi Scott,
 I have seen Kevlar belted tires in both Performance and Nashbar catalogs.  Vittoria
makes a Flash-M Kevlar that I am currently using on my road cycle, the first day I road
w/ this tire I had two flats caused by glass sticking into the tire casing and then working 
its way into the tube, since then I have had no more flats??  Who Knows Why??
	O.K.
	BIL
From: scheng@bcarh886.bnr.ca (Spencer Cheng)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: American Classic Hubs?
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:45:15 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

Because I am in the process of selecting bits for a new frame, I have
being studying the various mailorder catalogs (with more care than I
ever studied for any of my courses in university I might add :). These
hubs are sold by both Colorado and Nashabr.

I was wondering how good are the above mentioned hubs as far as
quality of construction and durability is concerned?

How about the Sampson Ti hubs that is also in the latest Colorado
catalog with the Ti body.They appear to be lighter than the American
Classic hubs. [It is hard for me to compare weight directly since some
includes skewers while others do not.] Has anyone actually tried them?

Thanks
Spencer

--

Spencer Cheng     scheng@BNR.CA  Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada  613-763-4046
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: Ripped off?
Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:31:48 GMT

In article 9504@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com, caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>I'm just wondering if anyone has been burnt in
>a transaction initiated in this group.  
>Are you guys just sending money and parts to
>someone you have never met?  I would be
>inclined to trust someone advertizing here,
>but...
>
>Brian 


I have done deals with *5* netters, and was never burned, even by that sneaky
Sun techie I bought the pedals from (Hi, Doug!). I once sent a bicycle off 
blindly to a far away address and had a frame show up in return a wekk later.
We both had to be trustworthy there. My rule is if I feel I'm dealing with a 
person I can trust, I just send ther money or merchandise off without a second
thought. If I *don't* feel I can trust them, I don't deal.

One caveat: I sent a frame off to one sort of spacey netter and UPS appears to have 
lost it....

           --mike



Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: unpalomb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Nicholas Palombo)
Subject: New 1992 20" StumpJumper Comp in Raspberry
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:46:24 GMT

I have a brand new (never ridden) StumperJumper Comp forsale.

20" Frame in the Red Raspberry color
Deore XT Components (with Specialized CrankSet and Pedals)

Asking $600 or best offer.

Reply to unpalomb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
From: mleitch@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 17:35:06 EST
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Bike Commuting (Bike Friday?)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.0

For some time now I have been looking for an alternative commute that
could accomodate biking (my round trip is 100km on the "safe" route; a
distance I find simply too taxing on a daily/work basis).  One alternative
is to store a commuter in a storage locker near the train station.
However, this rental is on the order of $500/yr (and while people
like the idea of splitting the rental, noone is committed to it).

Now the train folks tell me if I had a folding bike that compacts
to 80cm*80cm*30cm I can take a bike onboard (otherwise, no dice).
I looked at folding bikes earlier and was not impressed.  Bicycling
magazine (yeah, yeah I know...) has been giving heavy ink to this
Bike Friday unit which appears to meet my criteria and may also
be *enjoyable* to ride (if the bike isn't fun, I won't ride it).
The price is steep ($869 US) but it's cheaper than a Moulton...

Anyone got comments on Bike Friday or any other folding bike that
they actually liked riding? Also, feel free to email me on any commuter
gear that you're particularly happy with (I used to just use my
road bike with an under seat pack for the 100km trip).

..........mark leitch..........................ibm toronto lab..........
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: MTB: carbon fibre seatposts?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 07:47:53 GMT

>
>Seat posts get sheer loading where they come out of the seat tube. Carbon
>fiber doesn't do real great with sheer or compression loads. Carbon fiber
>is best used in tension.
>

Right.

I find it kind of surprising that anyone would consider making seatposts
out of composites.  Think of carbon fiber as strong, stiff fiberglass.
It's just not a good material for high stress points.  That's why carbon
fiber frames have metal inserts for things like bottom brackets and such.


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
From: Chilero@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Chilero)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Bike Parts
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 08:21:04 -0500

Tom, are you looking for new or used parts/groups? Are they ultimately
for resale? 

 * Origin: Two Wheelers - The Bicylists' Communications Link (1:106/88)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: J105270@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Ripped off?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:25:06 GMT

I don't think it is anything you need to worry about. I have bought and sold
on the net and everyone is meticulously honest including sending correct
descriptions if they have posted a mistake. Remember that COD is a cheap way
to add a level of comfort though I have done transactions w/o it.

MJG



>I'm just wondering if anyone has been burnt in
>a transaction initiated in this group.
>Are you guys just sending money and parts to
>someone you have never met?  I would be
>inclined to trust someone advertizing here,
>but...

>Brian

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: anodization bash(was MTB: Rim recommendations needed)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:06:28 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <75571@apple.apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>>In article <Bz2JBp.49H@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>>>curt@mcm.hp.com (Curt Simkins) writes:
>>>>   That is why they offer "Life Time" warranties.
>>>Doesn't Kestrel only have a 5-year warranty?
>>They decided that the market required the standard lifetime warranty a year
>>or two back, though that doesn't mean they have to honor it.
>Kestrels are presently being offered by Schwinn dealers. They have a
>comprehensive lifetime warranty if I remember correctly.
>BTW, you do know that Schwinn owns Kestrel?

I thought they only owned part of Kestrel.  In any event Kestrels are mostly
still sold under the Kestrel name.  My brother was looking into a Kestrel
about a year ago and they told him it only had a 5-year warranty.  This was
at RRB Cycles in Chicago.
-Terry
From: mprender@jscprofs.nasa.gov (Mike Prendergast)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: 0.8333" Stem Source
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:40:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: nasa/jsc

Request for help!!!!!
I'm trying to modify and older bike.  The stem I need to replace is marked with
0.833.  I assume this is in inches (21.17 mm).  Does anyone know of a source
for this size stem?  The stem appears much smaller (in diameter) than the ones
on the Shimano headsets I've seen.  I don't know the brand of headset with the
0.833" stem, but the bulk of the bike's components are Suntour.
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: anodization bash(was MTB:  Rim recommendations needed)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:47:02 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec10.162913.10470@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com> curt@mcm.hp.com (Curt Simkins) writes:
>|>  Kestrels disintegrate
>|> after 10000 miles or so and carbon fiber bikes are experiencing both
>|> adhesive and corrosion problems in which the aluminum parts separate
>|> from the carbon (BB shell etc).
>|> 
>|> jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
>   
>   Granted it would be a pain in the ass (possibly literally) if
>   a frame were to fail.  However I think you would be hard pressed
>   to find any manufacturer that produces these high end, high tech,
>   space age material type frames to refuse to replace a damaged or
>   broken product.  That is why they offer "Life Time" warranties.
>

Not hard pressed at all.  I posted a few months back about the difficulty
a friend had getting Kestrel to honor the warranty on his frame.  The Al
BB threads were twisting within the carbon BB shell, and so he sent it back
to them.  They refused to honor the warranty on the grounds that some other
part of the frame had obviously been crashed (it hadn't).

This isn't meant to be an indictment of carbon fiber frames, but it does
suggest to me that you can't always count on warranties unless you're able
and willing to sue for satisfaction.  My friend wasn't, and now rides a
steel bike.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
From: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Bryce Andrew Hodgeman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: slicks for MTB commuting
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:53:36 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: rec
Reply-To: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <ILH.92Dec14103334@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu>, by ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington):
> I'm considering slicks for commuting on my MTB.
>                                 Lee Hetherington
>                                 ilh@lcs.mit.edu
I have run City Slicker 1.5's on my mtb for the last thousand miles of
commuting through the glass strewn streets of Milwaukee.  In that many
miles I have had only two flats.  I also have Matrix Singletrack Comps.
I find that the 1.5's have the compromise in speed, comfort, and 
durability.  I have used both 1.25's&1.75's in the past.
Hammer on
Bryce Hodgeman
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: anodization bash(was MTB:  Rim recommendations needed)
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:18:33 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Dec10.162913.10470@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com> curt@mcm.hp.com (Curt Simkins) writes:
>In article <5510007@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>, jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>|> Eric Praetzel writes:
>|> 
>|> > Don't any of these mfgs do testing to failure?
>|> 
>|> Seldom!  Much of the equipment bicyclists use has been customer
>|> tested.  For examples look at the non steel bicycle frames that are
>|> an ongoing research project.  Technium frames took a long time to
>|> develop their adhesive for the frame joints.  Kestrels disintegrate
>|> after 10000 miles or so and carbon fiber bikes are experiencing both
>|> adhesive and corrosion problems in which the aluminum parts separate
>|> from the carbon (BB shell etc).
>|> 
>|> jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
>   
>   First I would like to say that I do not have any interset in any
>   bicycle companys and that I don't disagree with Jobst that 
>   some frames and/or equipment might be customer tested to a point.

<counterexamples of high mileage Kestrels and other 'exotic' equipment
deleted>

Not too long ago I was flamed to a crisp for taking a position similar
to Jobst's w.r.t. the topic of customers assuming some risk when using
leading edge technology.  I will try not to take an extreme position,
having learned my lesson, but I think there is a problem with some of
the more exotic equipment out there.  All of us in the business of
building 'stuff' for sale will be familiar with the tradeoff between
getting to market and testing the product.  Particularly with exotic
materials, this testing can be extremely costly and time consuming,
and some of the failure modes, like stress corrosion cracking, are
difficult to model in an accelerated time frame.

Consumers will continue to take up the slack.  A glossy picture in a
brochure doesn't guarantee the gear will work for you, or save you
costly doctor bills.

Jim
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: slicks for MTB commuting
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:44:38 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <ILH.92Dec14103334@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>I'm considering slicks for commuting on my MTB.  My commute is about
>five miles all on roads.  My current off-road tires are slow and
>noisy, and I don't want to wear them out on the road.  Besides,
>traction on dry pavement isn't all that great.
>
>The options I've seen are Avocet City Slicker (1.25" and 1.5"),
>Ritchey Tom's Slick (1.25" and 1.4"), and Specialized Fat Boy (1.25").

I have the 1.4 Ritcheys on my commuter bike (Bridgestone XO-2).  They're
pretty durable, seem to roll easily, and offer good rim protection.  I
don't, however, like them in the rain -- they simply do not corner
predictably.  This may be do to their profile or rubber compound; I
can't say for sure.  Still they're decent tires.  I'll probably replace
them with a 1.5 Avocet Cross or 1.4 Specialized Nimbus.

>What do you think of these?  What about size?  My rims are Matrix
>Singletrack Comp.  I think I probably want something bigger than 1.25"
>to be more durable with curbs and potholes.  Is that reasonable or
>unnecessary?  The Tom's Slick has a little bit of tread on the sides.
>I've heard from a few people that tread tends to catch road debris,
>causing flats.  Is this true?

The only flat I suffered on my Ritcheys was when a huge shard of glass
cut into the tire on a rainy day.  I ride to work rain or shine and
haven't found that the small side grooves pick up anything.

>Thanks in advance for any recommendations or comments!
>--
>
>                                Lee Hetherington
>                                ilh@lcs.mit.edu


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
From: dnieder1@cc.swarthmore.edu (david niederman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Helmet gift advice wanted
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:17:18 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <1992Dec17.131251.9507@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>,
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (daniel lance herrick) writes:
> 
> My new son-in-law uses a bicycle for transportation in Lincoln, Nebraska.
> He's had at least one altercation with a car and they've decided he wants
> a helmet.
> 
> What do I want to know before buying one for him?
> 
> I get the idea from articles still in the spool here that head size
> is not enough, head shape is an issue too.  Do we have to take him
> to try helmets on?
> 
> An earlier time when I was reading rec.bicycles, I picked up that the
> foam is only good for one crash.  Are there helmets that have replacable
> liners?  Are hard shells any benefit at bicycle energies?  Is the pure
> foam that will be broken into pieces after the first crash a better
> way to go?
> 
> What questions should I be asking?
> 
> (I will try to catch any responses that are posted here, but it would
> be a kindness if you would mail to dlh@dlhpfm.uucp - I will post a
> report.)
> 
> dan      dlhpfm!dlh    dlhpfm!dlh@ncoast.org  dlh%dlhpfm.uucp@ab.com
> 
> I think specialized offers a similiar deal on theri helmets as well.  check it out.
dave.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: anodization bash(was MTB: Rim recommendations needed)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:20:16 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>I don't doubt the experience, however, just lately Schwinn has begun to
>sell Kestrel's with Schwinn Paramount labels:
>The Paramount Series 9C
>Warranty policy:
>"SCHWINN will replace any bicycle with a structurally defective frame with
>"a new bicycle of equal value ~.
>"The warranty coverage has _NO_TIME_LIMIT_~."

I know, I've seen the catalog.  What I am saying is that Schwinn may be
selling some Kestrels with the Schwinn label but there are also Kestrels
being sold still under the Kestrel name.  Do these also have a lifetime 
warranty?
-Terry


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.tech
From: johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Reid)
Subject: Re: How to cold-set rear triangle to wider dropout width?
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1992 02:39:52 GMT

iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba) writes:

>johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Reid) writes:

>>jly33321@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John L.Yoon ) writes:

>>>au109@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Craig Williams) writes:


>>>>>How do I cold-set the rear triangle of a Reynolds 531 frame from 120mm to
>>>>>126mm rear dropout width?


>>[John Reid says don't cold set it but ...]

>>However, there is a solution to your problem that is safe and not
>>replacement of your frame in toto. Any competent frame builder can replace
>>frame tubes. I should talk to one about replacement of your rear triangle.
>>It should be quick and cheap, as almost no new tubes are needed. It may
>>also allow you to survive the experience.....

>This is rather drastic -- replacing the entire rear triangle.  At the
>*most* you would have to replace the brake bridge and the chainstay
>bridge with *slightly* longer ones.

>However, I question John's claim that coldsetting would introduce 
>wrinkles or significantly weaken the tubes.  By my back-of-the-envelope
>estimations, if you assume the deformation is located at a point source
>(an unreasonable assumption I might add) then the walls of the tube
>must stretch (and fold to accomodate) approximately 0.0005 inches or
>about a hundreth of a mm.  I doubt that this would weaken the tubes, 
>let alone be visible to the eye.  In actuality, the deformation would
>be distributed over some distance, thereby reducing the impact of the
>coldset even further.

Rebrazing your rear triangle is not very radical in fact; it's mostly a
question of replacing the brake bridge with a longer one, and recycling your
existing tubes. The steel tubes in your frame may well stand the sort of
permanent deflection that is being discussed, however the brazing may well
not do so, and that is the weakest part of the structure. Injudicious
bending is quite likely to occur mostly around the obvious stress raiser,
the brake bridge. What this is likely to do to the no longer new brazing is
anyone guess. The accuracy of a home bend is another contra-indication..

For the record, a friend of mine totally collapsed the top tube on his
frame in a race one weekend. I didn't see him again until the Thursday, and
he was riding the same frame, but with the top tube replaced. In the
interim it had been rebrazed and re-enamelled. Just like new, and much much
less than a new one.....
--
John Reid                                   ACSnet : johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au
CP Software Export Pty Ltd,                 Phone  : +61 3 823 0222
19 Cato Street, Hawthorn 3123 Australia     Fax    : +61 3 824 8068
ACN 006 640 133
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: I thought this newsgroup was ending Nov. 23?!?!?
From: Eric Schweitzer <ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 12 Dec 1992 19:50:34 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <1992Dec12.144428.16079@nuscc.nus.sg>, hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R
Pennell) says:
>
>tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
>: >Better yet, kill the other groups and restore this one.  It was a lot more
>:
>: I second the motion.
>
>I third it

I did not vote for the split, (but I didn't vote against, and I'm now
paying for my apathy) and would fourth this...BUT...

1) usenet guidlines require a 6 month waiting period between any
   reorganizing vote and the next (it hasn't been long enough since
   the split to bring up the topic officially).
2) The discussion MUST take place in the right news.* group, so if and
   when we are ready to do this right, we have to do it there.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc