From: pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Re: Lubavitcher Rebbe's 90th birthdaySCDOWN
Organization: /local/lib/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:23:22 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.120211.1@acfcluster.nyu.edu> broner@acfcluster.nyu.edu writes:
}> did anyone catch the NPR story (monday 4/13) that described how many 
}> followers of rabbi scheerson were convinced not only that he IS the
}> messiah but that he would ANNOUNCE that he was, in fact, the messiah
}> on his birthday?  it mentioned, among other factors, that 90 held 
}> special numerological significance.  the story described how many 
}> children were utterly convinced that their leader was/is the messiah, 
}> and raised the question of how these children might become disillusioned 
}> when they discovered how they had been deceived. 
}> 
}> comments, anyone?
}> 
}> peter
}> pdm@cs.uoregon.edu
}
} What bothers you the most? That Lubavitchers believe that Moshiach is a
} reality, that the Rebbe could be Moshiach, or that the children might be
} dissappointed?


that the truth is not being served.  by deceiving ourselves with the
fantasy that all our problems will be solved by a god-sent messianic
savior, we distract ourselves from the task of solving our own problems.


} Moshaich is not a theortical entity, but a man of flesh and blood who in every
} generation is waiting for HaShem to allow himself to be revealed. Moshiach is
} not sitting in the clouds, he is here with us now.


is he?  are you sure?  how do you know?  how close are we to world peace?
there are wars raging in many parts of the world, and others that may erupt
anytime.  there is vast suffering in many parts of the world that are
nominally at peace.  messianic times?  doesn't look like it to me.


} There is nothing new about speculating who is (or the name of) Moshiach (see
} Sanhedrin 98b). 


true enough.  there have been many false messiahs in the past.  when
they were exposed as frauds, jewish communities were devastated.


}	    So why should it bother you if Lubavitchers think their Rebbe 
} has all of the virtues to be Moshiach?  


"having the virtues of the moshiach" and "being the moshiach" are not the
same.  it is possible to be pious and virtuous yet not be the moshiach.


} Don't you have someone that you would want to be Moshiach?


this very question is rather telling.  forgive me, but i cannot help
but recall those high school yearbook polls that tried to decide who 
in the graduating class is "the most likely to succeed", and so forth.

just because i may know someone whom i consider admirable and virtuous
does *not* mean that i want them to be the messiah.  to be completely
honest, i don't believe in the notion of a messiah.  at least not in
the same sense as many in this forum do.

i do not harbor hopes that a single individual whom i know will announce
one day that he is the messiah.  instead, i hope that we, collectively as 
a society, can gain enough understanding to begin solving our problems 
ourselves.  each of us has the responsibility to do what he or she can 
to improve the world.  there are so many things that need doing, in so
many different fields.  we need clean sources of energy.  we need to
figure out what to do with nuclear waste.  we need to figure out policies
that can help third world countries break cycles of overpopulation,
famine, and disease.  we've got to figure out ways to live in peace
with each other: serbs and croats, germans and turks, french and 
morrocans, tamils and sinhalese, israelis and palestinians.  we've got
to stop destroying the ozone layer, old-growth forests, and entire
species of life.  we've got to get inner city youth decent educations
so they can get decent jobs.  that's just for starters.

throwing up our hands and saying: "all these problems are hopeless, 
we can do nothing but wait for god to send us a messiah" is the path
of despair, pessimism, and withdrawal, and comes perilously close to 
an abdication of our own responsibility to work toward solutions to
these problems.

}As far as the children being dissappointed if Moshiach doesn't reveal himself:
}Aren't you dissappointed, at this very moment, that we have been waiting for
}2,000 years in this present (and final) exile and we still don't have Moshiach?


maybe god is trying to send us a message.  maybe after 2,000 years 
of not getting a messiah, we should take the hint and realize that
we have no one but ourselves to help us with our troubles, and it's
time to get to work and stop waiting for divine intervention.
(and yes, i know the jewish belief is that the messiah himself is a 
mortal, flesh and blood human being, but it is god who sends him.)


}Don't you feel the pain of this golus? 


i don't know--what's a golus?


}				       Why don't you yearn for Moshiach as much
}as those innocent children? Please Peter, don't worry for the children, worry
}for yourself.

}With Ahavas Yisroel~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Chaim
}The Bottom Line: At least they're talking about Moshiach

... and not about solving our problems ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish