HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Was(Re: Questions about Reynaud's Syndrome) Now: herbal remedies Safe?
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:00:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Dec24.000008.17475
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

[Gordon Banks in response to an anecdote about ginger helping in
Reynaud's Syndrome]: 
---Before prescribing Ginger, scientific medicine would have to see some
---experiments showing that it works.  It is not enough for you to say
---"hey, it seems to help me, so all doctors from now on should be
---telling their patients to take ginger."  That doesn't sound very
---reasonable, now does it?

[mdebuitlear@vms.eurokom.ie in reply to Banks]:
>>If it obviously doesn't do any harm, it doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

[followed by Dick King's question and comments]:
>Why is it so obvious that it doesn't do any harm?
>
>You are hypothesizing that ginger, instead of being just a spice, has some
>particular beneficial effect on the body, that scientific medicine hasn't
>measured yet.  Why are you assuming that it has no harmful effect on the body,
>that neither scientific medicine nor anyone else has measured yet.
>
>This question is never far from my mind when an advocate of "traditional" or
>herbal medicine types.

Yes, precisely. 

In a book called something like: Everywoman's Herbal for the
Childbearing Year, ginger is listed as a powerful emmanogogue or
abortificant (sure I spelled at least one of those wrong) while it is
also considered a good remedy for morning sickness.  go figure!

Even garlic which is claimed to be useful medicinally (article in the
latest Mothering magazine advises it for pinworms), is also
contraindicated in pregnancy for its emmanogogue properties.

Although the original poster who used ginger was male and obviously
pregnancy was not an issue, if some people consider these to be drugs
strong enough to cause a miscarriage, then perhaps they should not be
taken too lightly.

Bottom line is that the flavors we enjoy from spices and herbs and
other foods are often developed by plants as *toxins*, a defense
measure against being eaten.  We use them in small quantities
culinarily because we like the taste, but we don't necessarily know
all the consequences of larger doses.

Dorothy Neville
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Bashing, truth, etc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:18:55 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

>[hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu writes:]
>>I do not need any data whatever to know that saccharin has an effect on
>>cancer rates, or that vitamin C has an effect on longevity, or even that
>>the most disreputable quack treatments have an effect.

This point, which Herman Rubin makes here frequently, has its problems.
The assumption is that everything has some effect, however small,
on everything, and so given a large enough N, a statistically significant
effect will be demonstrated.

I think this ignores the randomness and finiteness of the universe.  If
the N needed to show an effect is larger than the number of humans
that have ever lived and can ever be expected to live over the lifetime
of the universe, I don't think it is fair to say that we "know" that 
a large enough N will prove an effect.  Further, given chaos in 
the universe, it is unlikely that we could ever control things in 
such a way that we could have any likelihood that such a small effect
would show the same results in an experiment performed twice.

That is not to say that this is not a relevant real world problem in 
statistics.  Frequently large studies do demonstrate statistically
significant but clinically insignificant results.  I am commenting
more on the specific philosophical position that leads to the
position that we can be certain that saccharin has an effect on
cancer rates (either to raise or to lower them).
-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: med50003@nusunix1.nus.sg (WANSAICHEONG KHIN-LIN)
Subject: Re: Deodorants Harmful?
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:47:23 GMT

Since I was the poster who put up the (if I can follow this) I feel I
should explain why I put it in - I am not a homeopathy expert and do not
claim to be. I did not understand why Diane Bailey wanted more evidence
for the link between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease - if the compound
is not found in the plaque it is not likely to be associated with the
disease.

If Diana Bailey wants to base the association between aluminium and this
disease on homeopathic evidence then this is a slightly different
matter. Is there evidence from pathological specimens and histological
studies that aluminium is involved? No. That may mean not yet or never.

As the previous post has indicated, the disease Kuru which is associated
with a form of pre-senile dementia is not associated with cooking in
aluminium containers. The practive of eating the brains of relatives
when they died is primarily responsible for the transmission of this
disease. The agent is a prion - or very elementary viral particle that
causes some pathological changes similiar to the the disease scrapie in
sheep and mad-cow disease. There is not evidence so far that either od
these disease are associated with Alzheimer's.

There are a number of different conditions that are associated with
so-called pre-senile demetia. Typically Alzheimer's strikes younger old
people - e.g. around 50 - 60 when most people should not actually be so
decreased in mental function. At 102, like Diane's grandmother I do not
know what is normal and what is not. However, many reversible organic
causes of dementia can mimic this condition e.g. renal disease,
electrolyte imbalances, etc.

gervais
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Essiac Recipe????
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:46:33 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to rbennet1@neumann.une.edu.au]
 
>Can somebody supply me with a detailed recipe for Essiac?
 
Misc.health.alternative was created to move folk and alternative
medicine out of sci.med because we were always at each other's throats.
Try there.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Physician's Incomes
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:01:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: pitt.17940
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Dec21.202036.29673@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

>I'd like to know why none of the physicians that I follow in sci.med have
>never once participated in the newsgroup, misc.invest. Aren't you people
>with big paychecks interested in investing?
>
Probably because none of us have incomes of $120K.  Most of us
are academic types who will probably never see our income top $120K
barring becoming a chairman of a department or runaway inflation.
I'd need a 50% raise to get to that point.

>If I made $120k+ salary, I'd be drooling over the Wall Street Journal
>every day.

I think most of us are in medicine for the intellectual interest
and not for the money.  Money doesn't interest us that much.
Otherwise, why would we be wasting our time on the net where
there is no money to be made at all?  It would be inconceivable
for someone in private practice who could make more than $100/hr
profit by seeing more patients to be answering questions for
free here, wouldn't it?


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pwageman@visual.spk.wa.us (Peggy Wageman)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Deodorants Harmful?
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:53:52 GMT
Organization: The Visual Market - Spokane, WA

Are deodorants that contain aluminum harmful?  And what would be the long
term effects of using them?  Thanks,  Peggy Wageman
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: tendonitis or what?
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 14:58:28 GMT

In a previous article, magic@netlink.cts.com" wrote:
>Does anyone know if excercise is good or bad for tendonitis?  I'm a 
>musician and have had pain and cramps in my hands for several years now, 
>but especially in the last few months.  I've had a doctor give me braces 
>and put me on anti-inflammatory drugs, but nothing seems to help.  He 
>says he *thinks* this is chronic tendonitis; it's definitely not carpal 
>tunnel syndrome.  He also suggested I lift weights to strengthen my 
>wrists and arms.  Someone else promptly told me not to do that, as it put 
>to much strain on already sore areas . . .
>So what I would really like to know is:  1)is there something similar to 
>tendonitis that would cause pain but no numbness?  (The pain is mostly 
>when I play and always when I write; I also wake up with it sometimes)
>2)Should I lift weights or do something else in the way of exercise?  I 
>would be willing to put in a lot of work if it would help!

There are a lot of problems with hands due to RIS (Repetitive Injury Symptoms)
which doctors unfortunately don't know how to treat.  Your problem sounds very
much like mine.  I was told if it realy was tendonitis, there should be swelling
or redness.  Did the doctor consider a coritsone shot?  I tried that as a last
resort, but no difference in my case.  But before that, you could try what a
hand therapist tried, which was coritsone patches that one wears while sleeping
for about a week, less invasive than a shot.  Also, again if it's tendonitis,
physical therapy with ultrasound treatments might help.  BTW, I hope that you
are seeing a hand specialist rather than a simple orthopedic doctor.  Such a
doctor would KNOW what to do or what not to do.  Until the pain subsides (if it
does), I would strongly suggest rest, possibly for a long time, and hope that
it helps, unless you can find a specialist that says it's ok to exercise.  If
nothing helps, and the pain is bad enough even with rest, you might consider
a pain clinic.  If the pain subsides and only occurs when you play music, I
would stop the music and find something else to do and be thankful that you have
not pushed them past the point that they are painful all the time like some
people have done.

In my case, the pain is made worse by my having fibromyalgia.  This is a
condition which causes muscle pain.  Wrist problems are common in fibromyalgia.
If you have unexplained pains in other areas, or have sleep problems, you might
have this condition, and there are other things you can do (i.e. low doses of
anti-depressents seems to help the pain.)  Good luck.

Mark London
MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Repetitive motion injuries  (was: tendonitis or what?)
Date: 1 Jan 1993 12:33:19 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

-*----
In article <1JAN93.14582812@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
> There are a lot of problems with hands due to RIS (Repetitive
> Injury Symptoms) which doctors unfortunately don't know how to
> treat. ...

Many such problems are easily treated by one of the oldest 
medical principles.  "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."  
"Stop doing that."

The problem is that people -- often for excellent reasons -- want
to continue the activity that hurts them.  If one's profession is
playing the string bass or writing computer programs, for
example, medical advice against bowing and using a keyboard is
most unwelcome.  Which poses a problem that will often stump the
doctor: how to solve the problem when the patient keeps doing
what causes the hurt. 

Sometimes mechanical changes help.  The professional musician I
knew experimented with different bows, different stroking
methods, and different hand positions.  People using a keyboard
try tactily different keyboards, different positions, different
mouse mechanisms, or move to a chording mechanism (the Bat).
Often people in the same profession who have experienced the same
problem are more knowledgeable about such alternatives than a
physician.  After all, the average physician has only the
foggiest notion of how a string bass is played. 

Russell
From: Dave.Ray@f595.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Ray)
Sender: Usenet@f-454.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Strep Throat
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 11:12:35 -0600

Can't recall the name of the manufacturer, but we use a quick test for strep in
our lab. It is along the lines of the pregnancy tests and requires an ab-ag
reaction...
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:55:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.195535.29732
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

A substance which prevents ketosis might be described by some people
as _increasing_ compliance on what would otherwise be a ketogenic diet.
No more paper-dry mouth with killer bad breath, no more headaches and
fuzzy feeling, etc.  Ketosis is sometimes described as causing euphoria,
but I've experienced euphoria, and ketosis is no euphoriant for me.

Anyway, I'll read the study and comment more at that point.
The idea that a slice of lemon in water would make a difference
in compliance on a diet is truly bizarre to me.  Of course, when
you're on a VLCD, you don't have much else to engage your imagination.
All sorts of things loom in importance.

If you decide to go on one of these regimens again, I invite you to
get the Ketostix out and start pissing.  If a gallon of diet Coke
makes any kind of difference, I'll buy you a can of Cambridge Diet.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: lamontg@stein.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: post-Prozac reactions
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:10:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec24.011016.2733
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'

mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:

About Prozac and bipolar/cyclothymia:  I've heard from patients that
their doctors have mentioned a problem with fluoxetine exacerbating
manic phases when treating a patient with one of these disorders. 

>Yes rage (or irritability) can be a symptom of mania or hypomania.
>People can and do "switch" suddenly from a depressive to a manic or
>hypomanic state while taking antidepressants - the traditional teaching
>has been that all antidepressants can induce such a switch in susceptible
>people.  There is some talk now that perhaps its just chance, that
>perhaps the antidepressants aren't causing the switch (its the post hoc
>ergo propter hoc problem again...) 

Well, I know what mania + hypomania are.  Prozac didn't make me hypomanic
or manic.  It tended to make me more amotivated, more tired, only I has
less of a dysphoric mood about it all (kinda "happy to feel depressed" in
a way, only I wasn't particularly happy, just not-dysphoric).  Then right
after going from 20mg/day to 40mg/day I had one episode of a flood of
rage.  never had it before, never had it since, and it was way out of
proportion with how I emotionally felt.  Chance?  I really doubt it, its
the only factor which could account for that kind of out-of-control drug-like
state.  And I've never experienced anything of a similar vien to that out-of-
control state (even with perhaps different emotions) before or after that
when I've been at baseline (which besides the prozac I was and had been
for quite some time...).

Of course I *am* atypical.  I'm just saying don't neglect the possibility
that Prozac could do this in a certain small number of patients. 

-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu
  "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."
                                      -- Robert Anton Wilson
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Leeches in medical applications
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:33:38 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <9212161700.AA16648@cs.utexas.edu> wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
>
>Where are leeches purchased? How much do they cost? Can an individual
>buy some and keep a breeding colony of them, or are they somehow 
>"restricted" to be sold to medical professionals only with some form
>of certification or ID required? (I suppose one could always just refer
>to them as "live bait" to get around any such restriction... :-)
>

Just any leach won't do.  Most of the ones you find in the pond won't
bite humans anyhow.  They come from England, most of them.  They
are not cheap, and I think they won't sell to laymen.  Don't want
to encourage nasty S-M games, I suspect.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jmcfee@dres.dnd.ca (John McFee)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Use of DNase in cystic fibrosis therapy
Keywords: cystic fibrosis DNase
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:28:10 GMT
Reply-To: jmcfee@dres.dnd.ca
Organization: Defence Research Establishment Suffield

A year or so ago, there was big news about the use of inhaled DNase to
thin out the mucous in the lungs of cystic fibrosis patients. Initial
results were promising and so clinical trials had commenced (I'm not
sure where).

Recently I was talking to an MD from the Alberta Sick Childrens
Hospital in Calgary. He said that the introduction of DNase therapy
into general use had been delayed because some researchers had concerns
that the breakdown products of Pseudomonas were more harmful than the
Pseudomonas itself.

Does anyone know the status of the clinical trials, the schedule for
introduction of DNase into widespread use or anything about the
reference to Pseudomonas. I have two 18 month old twin girls with CF,
so naturally I'm a little concerned. 

Thanks!

John Elton McFee                   ---   Standard disclaimer.
Threat Detection Group             ---   I speak for the trees
DRE Suffield  jmcfee@dres.dnd.ca   ---   For the trees have no tongues.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Estrogen Replacement Therapy
Date: 3 Jan 93 06:24:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan3.062446.9752
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec31.194734.27330@pegasus.com> tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard) writes:
>     Each woman is an individual and we have to find the proper dose
>and schedule for the particular woman.  I am interested in the use of
>"Proges" cream on the feet, rather than just taking a Provera tablet.
>I have not heard of this one.  Maybe Steve can comment on the blood
>levels produced by administering Proges cream to the feet (dorsum or
>plantar surface, I wonder?)

I haven't the faintest idea.  My gut feeling is that neither hormone
would achieve significant blood levels just from being rubbed on the feet,
but who knows?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Household mold - allergies - a connection?
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:25:50 -0600
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Dec22.214655.9965@compunet.uucp>, tony@compunet.uucp (tony) writes:
>     My question is:  What is the likelihood one particular allergen could
>   be causing most of her problems?  This question came this morning after an
>   observation I made.  Last night Pam and I were doing crafts which required
>   us to heat water to 160 degrees in an electric skillet ..  When we finished
>   we turned the skillet off and left the water in it.  This morning when we
>   got up white mold spores were developing on the bottom of the skillet in
>   a circle (coincidental with the round heating element beneath the pan).
>   I was amazed mold could form this quickly.  I thought, gee, we must have a
>   HUGE mold population around here.

Chances are you're seeing minerals precipitating out of the water, not mold.
Yes, fungi can grow pretty quickly, but everything points to an inanimant
cause of your phenomenon.

There are LOTS and LOTS of fungi ("molds") out there.  We don't even have
a good ballpark estimate on the number of species.  Some people with
allergies (usually to mold spores, the reproductive bodies) are allergic
to lots and lots of fungi, others to only a few species.

Best way to decide how bad a spore population you have in your house is
to compare fungal counts indoors and outdoors.  There's a number of papers
on how to do this -- you'd probably want to talk with an environmental 
specialist, a mycologist, or an industrial hygenist.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
(allergic to LOTS of fungi, and also to dust mites)
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:08:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: omen.1993Jan01.000856.3861
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest

In article <1992Dec31.141534.14845@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@bluefin.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>In <1992Dec31.063136.21570@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg) writes:
>>Until there's a cure (or even a safe and effective treatment)
>>many will use VLCD and/or Atkins.  As reported on the net, results
>>with Atkins have been spotty.  Switching from Diet Coke to Dr
>>Pepper might help some of them.
>
>My experience on a VLCD for 5 months supports what Steve has mentioned--if
>you are under 600 calories or so, you pretty much go into ketosis regardless 
>of your carbo intake.  The HMR program uses a formula that provides 
>50g of protein and 75g of carbohydrates a day.  I thought that much carbo
>would keep me out of ketosis and starving all day.  Surprisingly (to me),
>there was no hunger after the first week or so.  I didn't bother to check
>myself, but I am assuming I was in ketosis.

According to Kreitzman, the critical threshold for ketosis is
about 50-60 grams per day CHO.  The transition about this
threshold is abrupt, 10g/day makes a profound difference.  At
75g CHO/day it would seem unlikely for one to attain ketosis,
but only the Ketostix would know for sure.

>
>BTW, I *lived* on Diet Coke during this period--probably more than a six-pack
>a day.

Next time, try Diet Pepsi.  I wouldn't touch Diet Coke unless it's
50% cheaper than Pepsi :-) 

At 75g/day CHO I suspect none of this citrate business applies,
*even if* one is potentially sensitive to it.

Your mileage may vary. California estimates lower.

-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406