From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: Intelligent opponents
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
	<1992Oct7.015837.43652@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
	<1992Oct7.145347.19563@Princeton.EDU>
	<1992Oct7.192217.5902@nntpserver.chevron.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:46:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.192217.5902@nntpserver.chevron.com> jviv@usmi01.midland.chevron.com (John Viveiros) writes:


   In article <1992Oct7.145347.19563@Princeton.EDU> tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:
   >Place the real dragon lair in a place that is virtually inacessible except
   >by flying.  Hence, the traditional land-based adventurers will have a tough
   >time getting any treasure.

   Unless you have a really controlled dungeon, most moderate (7-9) level
   parties will have flying capabilities (rings, pegasi, carpets, fly
   spells, levitate and ingenuity, etc.).  This would be a good start, but
   should be easily overcome by a cooperative party.

Still, it's better than nothing. Sometimes a king want a dragon killed, and
since the place is unreachable, all he can do is ask a party of foolish and
powerful (enough, he hopes) heroes/adventurers.


   >
   >Have a fake, human-size entrance at the base of the mountain (say).  The
   >real entrance is at the top.  Once the humans get in, lured by some fake
   >gold and some audible glamers of snoring dragons, a trap closes off the
   >passage they came through.  Now the room they are in is like a giant
   >funnel, and they are in the bottom of it.  The dragon, 100 feet above, just
   >flames them three times a day until they die.  Dropping boulders, etc from
   >above will also do wonders, as will opening hole in the wall and letting
   >some lava in.
   >
   Passwall, rock to mud, teleport, wall of ice (heat protection too)
   should prevent fatal damage, and eventually allow escape.  Plus, the
   party now knows a back entrance.

No, to them it's the main entrance. They know nothing about the other
entrance, if the dragon is intelligent enough to cover his tracks. Also,
the dungoen layout shouldn't be a simple pit: A dragon knows that you can't
expect adventurers to STAY a FULL DAY in any king of pit...

My guiess is that the old "single cave opening up to the mountain exterior"
is stupid. What nobody suggested is that the "single cave" exist really,
but it is completely at the far end of a big cavern complex, which is
preferably immense and mazelike. I.E. The dragon can FLY in these caves. A
Red Dragon could be behind a ring of caves in which a sea of lava stands.
The dragon can fly above it, but the adventurers will have a tough time
finding the right cave before the dragon finds them, possibly ALREADY in a
sorry state (many monsters can populate these caves). The dragon cave's
entrance would best be suited to be on a cliffwall inside a humongous
cavern filled with lava (for a Red Dragon). After all, a dragon has over a
century to find his spot, and does not hesitate to move on if he hears
about a better place... Remember Smaug: they found him easy ONLY because
they used a secret entrance. If not, they would have to go through the
whole dwarven city...

Also, a dragon hoards treasure, and value a signle gold coin as much as the
whole. You make a dent on a coin, the dragon will be furious. He'd never
MELT the gold, reducing it's value, by the way. He ammass treasure, like a
collector. Would you put every coin from your coin collection in a single
bag? Of course not.

A dragon like to keep his treasure near itself. 

As for his youngs, he'd have them protcted in a secret place, maybe.
Depends on the particular dragon.

   >Also, dragons with spells will construct the usual defenses around the
   >lair, e.g. illusionary walls, fools gold.  The baby red dragons would
   >be kept in a small (for them) room only accessible by swimming through a
   >lake of lava, thus knocking out the easy kill.
   >
   Good suggestions

Yeah, many dragons know how to swim, too...

Oriental dragons are often depicted as masters of the 4 elements. Their
hide as tough as the rock, their attack as virulent as fire, their agility
like water, etc... They could swim underwater to the greatest depths, and
fly wqithout effort to the highest reaches of the sky (by the way, many
didn;t even have wings...). Dragons are supposed to inspire awe in a
quasi-divine way. The important thing is to roleplay them as "above human".
Tough.

   >Also, the shadowgate solution to dragon hordes: melt the gold together so
   >that it can only be moved in one piece, and keep it HOT.  magical items
   >would be IMBEDDED inside the gold, unless directly useful to the dragon.
   >
   Don't make it too hot, a dragon wouldn't want all his magic to have to
   to save versus magical fire.
   >p.s. if there are problems reading this post please tell me.
   >
   >Terry

See above what I said about not damaging his treasure.

   Just having fun trying to work through these problems.  Think of what
   you would do to get around these things, and the players will come up
   with better.

Not necesseraly. When you see a group of players take over half an hour
real-life (15 minutes game-time) to go through a simple 10' deep pit, not
even trapped, well you sometime wonder...









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/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
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