HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Alan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: rec.games.mud.* proposals
Summary: Let's do it up.
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:38:38 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Originator: alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU

It's my understanding that there's a formal process to creating new
newsgroups, involving a call for discussion (CFD), discussion (moderated?)
call for vote (CFV), and a vote. (BTW, I couldn't find out where to learn
exactly how this works. Can someone direct me to a Usenet guide at an
ftp or in a newsgroup somewhere?)

So, if ya wanna do rec.games.mud.diku or .tiny or .announce or whatever,
let's stop just talking and let's do it. Somebody's gotta know how.

 - Alan Schwartz (Javelin@Belgariad, Garreth@Spellbound, Treacle@TIM)


----
Alan Schwartz                    | Disclaimer: I represent no one
alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |
UC Berkeley                      | "Life is what happens to you while
Cognitive Science/Women's Studies|  you're busy making other plans"
                                 |          - J. Lennon
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
From: a_curtis@oz.plymouth.edu (Andrew M. Curtis)
Subject: Armegeddon
Reply-To: a_curtis@oz.plymouth.edu (Andrew M. Curtis)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Distribution: global
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 07:01:43 GMT


	For those of you who have aquired the Armegeddon MUD number by
some strange reason or miracle of God...please don't use it if you are
a newbie.  This MUD is not public and we are still working on it.  I
have found that any of the newbies that come on seem to have a great
power to crash the game just at the right inopportune moments.  This
is a great hamper on creation as the IMPL does not stay on all the
time and doesn't know about these crashes.  So if you do have the
number, please be sure and NOT use it.  And don't give it out to any
friends either.  Once the MUD starts up you'll find that all of our
hard work will reap great rewards and adventure.  Just give us some time.


Thanks alot...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--<Charon WhiteWater, Barbarian Cleric>--
--<Worshipper of The Great Wyrm Red Dragon>--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-->a_curtis@oz.plymouth.edu<--
*******************************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud:4557 alt.fan.furry:1135
From: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: PETITION:  REINSTATE BRUCE ON FURRYMUCK
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:08:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

In article <+gnjzyn.sterling@netcom.com> sterling@netcom.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.201425.3642@oz.plymouth.edu> patstew@oz.plymouth.edu (Pat Steward) writes:
>>At the request of WHOM?  All we've seen is negative postings -- Who
>>are these people who are supporting your petition?
>People who know better than to participate in a pointless flame-war.  People
>who had the sense to realize the posting was not a call for public discussion
>or for you to voice your opinion, and to respond via email if they supported
>it.  People who wouldn't touch this newsgroup with a ten-foot ethernet cable.
>People smarter than you, in other words.  (And possibly smarter than myself.)

     Based on your actions, I would definitely say they're smarter than 
yourself.  Basically what you're saying is that you submitted your "petition"
to a newsgroup composed of two groups of people: the FurryMUCKers who hate your
guts (which seems to be a large majority of the FurryMUCKers, for reasons I
can certainly appreciate based on your past and present actions here), and the
non-FurryMUCKers like myself who couldn't care less and who are just upset that
you've managed to drive the signal-to-noise ratio of this group down through
the floor yet again.
     BTW, if you really didn't want to subject yourself to all of this again:
Does the expression "Followup-To: poster" mean anything to you?

DISCLAIMER:  As if you couldn't guess, I do not speak for the University of
Washington or its Computer Science Department.
-- 
\ Mark Phaedrus, Computer Science Major, Univ. of Washington, Seattle, WA \*\
*\ Work: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu        Play: phaedrus@u.washington.edu \*\
\*\ Cute .sig quote still under alpha-testing; planned for release in 1993. \*\
 - Hi!  I'm an anti-virus utility!  Install me in your .signature right away! -
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud:4622 alt.fan.furry:1172
From: jk@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Happiness and Light)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: The letter that Bruce sent....
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:42:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44371
Followup-To: rec.games.mud
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr8.031529.11411@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> coram@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin C Coram) writes:
>How on earth can ANYONE "unintentionally" send a letter?  (And those WERE his
>words in that posting earlier.)  What, he was taken over by martians and they
>forced him to type that letter?  

Actually, I forced him to type that letter.  Yea, I and other members of the
BEM had staged a subliminal campaign to manipulate the wizards of Furry to
change the name to 'DanQuayleMUCK'-- this was merely a small part of the 
master plan.  


>[letter deleted]

       -jen (BEM-- because real conspiracies don't HAVE to hide.)
From: goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: Re: Network Use
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:28:38 GMT
	<Apr.11.06.19.37.1992.8332@brushfire.rutgers.edu>
	<zhl+5-#@engin.umich.edu> <1992Apr13.173232.12456@watcgl.waterloo.edu>
Reply-To: goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

anicolao@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Alex Nicolaou) writes:

>** The verbal explanation you received was wrong. traceroute sends
>out many many many packets to get the timings it gives you.

Wrong.  When all else fails, check the source.  It's BSD-derived, so I
can tell you what I found.

Traceroute sends 1 packet for each timing value report.  ONE.  ONLY
ONE.  Therefore, a standard traceroute sends out *AT MOST* 90 packets
(3 packets each for each of 30 hopcounts).  Each packet solicits at
most one packet in reply (excluding aberrent situations where gateways
duplicate packets).

A standard traceroute left to run all the way to the 30 hop max (rare)
will therefore generate 180 packets of traffic, which, at 40 bytes
each, is only 7200 bytes (no extra for headers, as the packets are raw
IP).  This isn't that large; I used far more packets writing this
article.

Read _Internetworking with TCP/IP_ by Douglas Comer for more
information about the way the IP protocol family *REALLY* works.

>Use it sparingly, if you must use it at all. It's fun to use but
>doesn't really provide much useful information - it is a root program
>for use by root in debugging routing, not for use by users so they
>can complain about which node is slow.

Now, this I agree with.  There is generally little *value* in using
traceroute, unless you really need to know where your packets are
getting lost.  Since most users can't do a damn thing about the net
anyway, they won't benefit from the information acquired from
traceroute in any practical way.

--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
From: jorichar@csws15.ic.sunysb.edu (Joel Richard)
Subject: Re: All right already
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:41:19 GMT

In article <32359@darkstar.ucsc.edu> demian@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Anthony Jackson) writes:
>In article <9204080539.AA15241@mail.cis.ohio-state.edu> FURRJK@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>So we're agreed we need new groups.
>we are?
>>I propose:
>>
>>rec.games.mud.adventure (to encompass diku, lp, and aber)
>Ahem.  From a player perspective its true that these three forms are quite
>similar; however, coding issues often come up with lps that really aren't
>for interest to diku or aber players, or for that matter of interest to non-
>wizard lp players (I haven't seen similar discussions for diku or aber coding,
>probably because only the most experienced people can write real code at all,
>and there isn't really that much to say about it).
>Also, rec.games.mud.lp already exists (and is used)

I just hope it will be used more in the future to address the questions like:
  "Where is my *MUD?!?!"  
                   (an LP that seems to been shut doen,is corruppted, etc)
  "Where can I get a copy of LP source code??"
  And on and on....

>>rec.games.mud.tiny (to encompass moo, mush, muck, and Bruce)
>Agreed.

Isn't that what I said? ;)

>There seem to be a few major types of discussion on r.g.m:
>1: tinyflamewars
>2: discussion of net load/gaming policy/etc
>3: mud lists and requests for status information
>4: announcements of new muds.
>5: requests for code.
>
>As far as I can tell, the only one of these topics big enough to form its own
>newsgroup is the tiny*.  Aside from wading through dozens of messages about
>'REINSTATE BRUCE...' I haven't seen too much of a volume problem.  So, lets
>just create rec.games.mud.tiny and leave everything else where it is.

AMEN! There is no need (nor the bandwidth) to warrant a 
rec.games.mud.announce, r.g.m.code or ANYTHING of the sort. As close as 
I can tell, there are 60 to 100 messages posted here each day...I don't
feel that that is enought to warrant 6 subdivisions of this group. I'm
currently waiting on information from my sysop about creating a new 
so I'd be happy to do this call for votes thing whenever i know what
I'm supposed to do...until then, discuss away, folks. :)

M'chel @ TinyTIM -- foof.dorm.clarkson.edu 5440 -- GO THERE!! ;)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Joel Richard                    !!   <Insert cute/significant saying here>  !
!INTERNET jorichar@ic.sunysb.edu !!    <Or insert neat ASCII picture here>   !
!BITNET jorichar@sbccmail.bitnet !!   <Better yet, don't put anything here>  !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Alan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: Um, okay, I did it.
Date: 10 Apr 1992 09:49:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Summary: look forward to an RFD announcement very soon.
Originator: alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU


	Okay, I sent up an official USENET RFD post to news.announce.newgroups
and expect to hear from the moderator any day now. It's for 
rec.games.mud.social.
	Before the flames begin, let me note that I didn't see any 
reasonably speedy way to do the mass reorganization that we'd all like,
but I figured if I had to start somewhere, I'd start here. So, it's
independent of other suggestions, just a discussion about 1 new group.
Someone else could do another and we could run parallel votes, or whatever.
	Anyway, look for the discussion on news.groups. If you like it
or if you hate it, speak up (in news.groups - NOT here).


----
Alan Schwartz                    | Disclaimer: I represent no one
alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |
UC Berkeley                      | "Life is what happens to you while
Cognitive Science/Women's Studies|  you're busy making other plans"
                                 |          - J. Lennon

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
From: tevonp@aix.rpi.edu (Peter Kaine Tevonian)
Subject: Re: Not a Game/Not Real Life (Was Re: Net-Sex)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:13:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.010905.11152@news.media.mit.edu> asb@media.mit.edu (Amy Bruckman) writes:
[ deleted ]
>
>Many people have real and powerful relationships which began in MUDs.

Amy here has some good points, but I think she gives too much credit to
people who end up getting hurt in these MUD "relationships." Equate a
MUD friendship to Pen Pal. Granted, MUDs happen a hell of a lot faster
and may therefore be more powerful, but both letters and MUDs are just
text that you read. God knows people have formed real (sometimes loving)
relationships through Pen Pal letters, and the same has happened via
MUDs. But each person who is invloved has to watch out for themselves --
if you allow yourself to be convinced about someone's "intentions" and
"personality" simply because of some text you read, then you are setting
yourself up for a fall. If it turns out okay, then great, and sometimes it's
worth the chance, but if you get dumped, don't go crying to the net.

Other than that, I agree with Amy.

>-- Amy

--Peter Kaine Tevonian, Long Time Mudder and Experienced Mud-to-RL 
                        Relationship-Haver


Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
From: csteele@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher E Steele)
Subject: Re: *** CEASE AND DESIST! *** (read me!)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:54:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.034832.243@phantom.com> dead@phantom.com (Bruce Fancher) writes:
>
>	How about this:
>
>FOR THE NEXT THREE DAYS NO MORE POSTS ABOUT SPLITING THE NEWSGROUP!
>
>	If after those three days we find that there is such an overwhelming
>number of messages actually being posted ABOUT MUD AND NOT ABOUT NEWSGROUPS
>then we can resume discussion.  If on the other hand the number of messages
>returns to the usual level of about 20 a day then we know that we don't need
>to resume the discussion.
>
>IF YOU REALLY HAVE SOMETHING DREADFULLY URGENT TO SAY ABOUT SPLITING
>THE NEWSGROUP THEN WAIT 3 DAYS!
>
Sorry, had already sent a crosspost from news.groups
How bout this, you hit the 'k' key and then count how many posts are about
MUD????  Sounds like to me you just don't want to come back from the weekend
with the usual 200+ posts to read on Monday. ;-)

How about this:
FROM THIS DAY ON, ALL PEOPLE SUBSCRIBE TO news.groups THAT ARE INTERESTED IN
DEBATING THE REORGANIZATION AND POST ONLY ON THERE ABOUT IT?

Get the message?
Good, enuff said
*smiel* (tm)
-Chris
From: goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: Re: All right already
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:35:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.GOEHRING.92Apr9083529
	<1992Apr8.064419.14000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
	<RSNYDER.92Apr8202846@nutrimat.fergie.dnet.ge.com>
Reply-To: goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
In-reply-to: rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com's message of 9 Apr 92 01:28:46 GMT

rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder) writes:

>> rec.games.mud.announce           --- Announcements and new users FAQL's.
>>                                      (moderated)

>I dislike this being moderated, as I see this as being where are the
>new muds post that they are up, down, sideways, whatever...

I do not see moderation as a problem.  Moderating the group will allow
the moderator to filter out junk postings, repeat announcements,
announcements from other than the mud administrator, and other such
junk.  I've already nominated myself to moderate; I would let most
posts go through unless the material has already been posted or is
from an unreliable source (I might hold on something a few days to get
confirmation from the known admin of a mud - I have the admin mail
addresses for most running muds right now).

Non-moderation will make the group functionally of no more use than if
it did not exist.

--
I do not feel that teaching sex education in schools without teaching a
religions perspective is advocating promiscuity any more than I think that
teaching nutrition is advocating either obesity or severe dietary restriction.
	-- Kathleen Gagen (gagen@bgsu.edu)
From: bartcha@elof.iit.edu (Chad Baarth)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: Re: Christian MUDS, are there any?
Summary: christian mud, evil
Keywords: gullible, jest
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:00:47 GMT
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago

I think EVIL!Mud has that sort of discussion...you might want to check
it out.


-- 

[0m
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang)
Subject: Re: Quest Solutions, Equipment Lists, etc.....
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:36:54 GMT

In <NVFL!PD@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:

>   Muds are not a zero-sum game -- it's not the case that by someone
>gaining levels through spoilers more quickly than other players,
>that the other players lose out somehow.  They are still able to
>gain their levels and enjoy the work of the puzzle builders at
>the rate they enjoy.  So your problem can't be with unfairness
>to other players.  I admit, I think players who use cheatsheets
>and shortcuts to advance much more quickly than me haven't
>"earned" their levels as well as I have, but nothing about
>it really adversely affects my enjoyment of the game.

Mr. Miller, hate to say this, but for some (if not most) LPMUDs (since we're
basically talking about an LPMUD quest solution set here), giving out quest
solutions WILL hinder and possibly harm other prospect wizards.  When wizards
start swarming into the game in large numbers (due to the availability of
quest solutions out there) the game admin will start putting higher and higher
restrictions for wizship (since we all know disk space is NOT unlimitless and
a game is not fun when the ratio of wizards and players lean heavily on the
wizards' side).  So, indirectly, this is a definite hinderance (sp?) for those
players who would like to achieve wizardship in LPMUD using the standard way
(ie gaining certain exp points and solving certain number of quests).

This, of course, is for LPMUD.  Haven't spent enough time in a DIKU to know
is this might apply there. :)

-michael
 Vincent's Hollow

-- 
==============================================================================
Michael M. Huang					 <michael@IASTATE.EDU>
3107 West St. Apt. E	#include <disclaimer.h>	  ISU MIND, VH3-LIB SIG -&-
Ames, Iowa, 50010	(515) 292-3752		  PV Student Development Group
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
From: jdeutsch@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Jeffrey Deutsch)
Subject: Re: New News Group
Summary: Good idea
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:14:27 GMT

In article <GOEHRING.92Apr7165634@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu writes:
>alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Schwartz) writes:
>
>[csteele's proposal deleted.  you wanna read it, you go find it]
>
>>The rec.games.mud.code is also a pretty good idea, since people often
>>want to know where code is, or how to put it up. I think that once
>>the groups are split like this, rec.games.mud.announce will be
>>unnecessary, as the traffic split up shouldn't be too bad.
>
>If we go and split up into (n) dozen groups, I want rgm.announce.  As
>it is, I have to read all the groups anyway (to catch mud
>announcements).  If we make an .announce group (and, better yet,
>moderate it, yeah yeah, and better yet, let me moderate it, yeah yeah
>yeah), I won't have to work as hard (although I'll probably end up
>reading all n groups anyway).
>
>I see .announce as a place to post:
>
>1) FAQLs as appropriate
>2) mudlist(s)
>3) open/close/move announcements
>4) *MAJOR* event announcements (i.e. pern mating flights).  I am
>   dubious on the issue of announcing MUD weddings.
>5) source release announcements
>
>Having a moderator will avoid multiple people posting about the same
>thing (hopefully), and will help to avoid postings of a highly silly
>nature.
>
>Of course, I have an ulterior motive; if I'm moderating it, I get to
>read all the submissions (which will include a lot of mud
>announcements), which makes it easier to maintain my mudlist. :)
>
>BTW, to anybody maintaining a mudlist: I am more than willing to share
>information.  Contact me (at scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu) if you maintain
>a mudlist, either general or specialized, and wish to cooperate.
>
	That's an excellent idea, IMHO. We've always needed a special
group for announcements like that, an now with this splitting up of 
newsgroups, we *really* need a co-ordinating newsgroup like this.
Kudos to Scott for not only proposing it, but also being willing to
take his time and energy to moderate it.
	I realize that this posting is mostly quoting previous posts
with (relatively) little contribution of my own, but I fear that if I
just said "Scott Goehring's proposal is great", people who receive my
posting before they get Scott Goehring's will not know what the hell
I am talking about.

>--
>Just because the law is irrational doesn't mean they can't put you in jail for
>violating it.
>		-- Henry Spencer (henry@zoo.toronto.edu)

-------------------------
Jeffrey Deutsch
Ph.D. Student, Economics
George Mason University
From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud
Subject: Re: Christian MUDS, are there any?
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:59:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.205934.22605
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
X-Post-Machine: everest.scl.cwru.edu

mktjadx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jeff A. Dilcher) writes:
> 
> -> I might point out that most secular universities have policies that
> -> would make the operation of a mud (on University systems) which
> -> enforced "Christian" behavior a violation of the university's
> -> anti-discrimination policies.  This is almost certainly true of most
> -> public universities.
> -> 
> 
>I might point out that there is no attempt being made, nor attempt even
>desired to enforce "Christian" behavior on a MUD.  This is an interesting
>point that you bring up, however.  It is interesting that many university
>systems are condoning (albeit indirectly) nearly every other religion
>under the sun, from roman mytholgy to satanism, and not one person crys
>foul.  However, bring in this "evil Christian religion" into the
>university computers and you have obviously violated "anti-discrimination"
>policies and have crossed the bounds of separation of church and state.

	I believe thae word was ENFORCE. I don't see pagans running
around FORCING you to join them. I do see a lot of Christians getting
preachy and very "Thou shalt go to hell, infidel". The ones that bug
me are the ones that can't manage to be content just having a religion,
they have to pander it violently to everyone they meet.

>For in Scripture it says: ``See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and
>precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to
>shame.''  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those
>who do not believe, ``The stone the builders rejected has become the
>capstone,''  and, ``A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that
>makes them fall.'' They stumble because they disobey the message-which is
>also what they were destined for. (1 Peter 2:6-8 NIV)

	Ah, gotta love those people who can't speak for themselves, but
have to quote ancient tomes written by fishermen. 

Heather "I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic..." Garvey

--
"Oh beloved ice cream bar, how I love to lick your creamy center!"| Heather
"I've been bad, Ren. You'll smack me!"  "You stoopid eeeediot!"   | "Moose"
"Remember, kids -- Only five more days to Yak-Shaving Day!"       | Garvey
"Squeak! Squeak! Squeak, I tell you!" "Happy, happy. Joy, joy"    | R&S in '92!