HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robw@tfs.com (Rob Woerner)
Subject: Re: Skin Diver Magazine
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:34:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.175222.14305@dale.ksc.nasa.gov> sdavis@laforge.ksc.nasa.gov (Steve Davis) writes:
>
   I recently bought my first copy of Skin Diver, mainly to check out the  
[stuff deleted]

>  So what's the deal with Skin Diver?  Is it just one big collection of  
>advertisements under the guise of expert opinions?  Or am I missing something  
>here?

Heck no!  Skin Diver is a great magazine that doesn't pull ANY punches.  It
NEVER endorses products or services that it hasn't thouroughly tested by
REAL SMART EXPERTS and found to be completely satisfactory in every way.
Just because it is 75% advertising and builds giant advertising layouts
around one or two skimpy articles on overdived destinations is no
reason to discount it.  It's just trying to make a few bucks so it
can continue to bring the diving world all these GREAT adverti.., er...,
articles.  Get lots of subscriptions for all your friends, even your
grandparents.
From: guido@sun-3.cs.uct.ac.za (Guido Zsilavecz)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Diving as a Religion?
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:10:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: sun-3.guido.711792619
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

In <1992Jul21.150959.3491@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:

>In article <1992Jul21.001321.24718@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> 21329KAD@MSU (Kim Dyer) writes:
>>Time to try to lighten the mood around here a little.
>>
>>All certified divers can be members of "the church".  You become clergy
>>if you spread the word and get others to train. You become the equivalent
>>of a cardinal if you are an instructor.  Specialties are special
>>devotioanl rites you have performed and are entitled to perform.
>>
>>Jaques Ives Cousteau is equivalent to the Pope.
>>
>>Comments?

>AhhhHAAAAA!  The light DAWNS!  And I thought the debates on this group
>were just that, debates.  In reality, they are religious disagreements!

>This explains why people sometimes get so pendantic and stiff necked, they
>are preaching the "one true" faith!

>And, obviously, the church has schismed into at least three major sects,
>PADI, NAUI and YMCA.  The sparring between the "churches" is, now that
>you have opened my eyes, been sort of like the Catholics vs. the Baptists.

Hey hey hey, the only true religion is CMAS and its affiliated branches,
PADI, NAUI etc are just these "commercial" religions Americans are so
fond of, with lots of hype and advertising and "please pay here's". 
(Sorry, had to slip that one in...)
See the light, all the light, join CMAS! 

>>Does this divine revelation qualify me as NED Clergy?

>Nope.  It qualifies you as a prophet. . . :-)

>>Kim Dyer DD (Dr.of Dive-inity)
>>21329kad@ibm.cl.msu.edu

>John
>stevens@uswest.com

Whatever, cheers!
Guido
(I am SAUU, the South African sect of CMAS)

--
                           __________.            
Guido Zsilavecz        _  /       /   \       Department of Computer Science 
Laboratory for        / \/             \/\___        University of Cape Town 
Advanced Computing   /   \   ..,|||.,  /     \      guido@uctcs.cs.uct.ac.za  
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Subject: Re: Diving as a Religion?
Organization: Oregon Extension Service, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Or.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:04:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.083900.3118@resonex.com> dan@resonex.com (Dan Kell) writes:
>Does this mean we can all apply for tax-exempt status since are jobs are
>just a means to support our habit, er...I mean our religion. :-)
>
>Gee, we could all spend outrageous amounts of money on equipment as tithes
>to the Holy Church! Dive Trips as scared pilgrimages! B-)))
>
>-- 
>Dan Kell                  

    Now this thread is getting really interesting!

    Steve
-- 
- Stephen M. Dodd, System Analyst, Oregon Extension Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sdodd@oes.orst.edu          Internet          Oregon State University
503-737-0699                                  Corvallis, OR 97331
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: sims@sauron.msfc.nasa.gov (Herb Sims)
Subject: Death at HydroSpace in Panama City, FL
Summary: Info wanted in drowning during HydroSpace dive
Keywords: Death
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:18:21 GMT

Has anyone heard about the death a week or two ago during a dive in Panama City
FL with the HydroSpace Dive Shop?  Any info would be appreciated.

Herb
From: craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Death Toll Near Kingston Reaches 3
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:31:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T / NCR Canada Ltd., Toronto, Canada


Since June 7, 92, three (3) divers have died on or near the "Marsh".  A 
wreck in Lake Ontario, off Amherst Island near Kingston.
(90 ft max depth, cold, fresh water. Vis can vary from 0- 40ft)

Zbigniew Wyderko of New York died on Saturday July 18.
Dr. Patricia Ryan of Kingston died July 14.
Peter Dreifelds of Picton died June 7.

Peter's death might be explainable due to lack of experience (only a few
dives each summer).  Peter died of an air embolism.

Zbigniew's death might be explainable due to lack of regional experience.
(One dive shop operator/NAUI instructor was quoted as suggesting that they
might want to dive some wreck other than the Marsh.  He was concerned due
to apparent lack of experience, and an "arrogant attitude".  The cause of
death has not yet been determined.

Dr. Ryan's death is much more difficult to discount.  She has been diving
and teaching diving on the Kingston area for years.  She was diving in her
own "back yard".  She had to be familiar with the conditions.  There was
no report of any problems during the dive.  Several of her dive buddies 
were Physicians.  Despite their onboard efforts, she died of an air
embolism.

Diving carnage of this scale is unheard of in the area.  

Papers and officials are labeling scuba diving a "Very Dangerous Sport".

These deaths are, in my opinion, suspicious.  I wonder if there is some
outside cause, perhaps a pollutant, causing dangerous reactions in some
divers, which are in turn resulting in uncharacteristic and dangerous 
actions (say, bolting to the surface).  This is pure speculation on my part,
but Dr. Ryan's death, especially, seems odd, as do three deaths in the same
area in a short time period.

Dr. Benoit Bouchard has not yet decided if there will be an inquest.  I would
encourage any concerned divers to contact Dr. Bouchars's office, and ecnourage
him to hold an inquest. (613 542-9402 (Kingston)  613 239-1251 (Ottawa?))
-- 
Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
From: crussell@samson.hac.com (Chris Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Lead/Weights
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:23:28 GMT
Reply-To: crussell@samson.hac.com
Organization: Hughes Training Incorporated, WCO

In article AA11372@shogun.smos.com, joseph@shogun.smos.com (Joseph Crunk) writes:
> 
> [...] #4 [lead shot] (not the same as #4 buck shot) is
> what's used in the nylon webbed weight belts. If you're making your
> own weight bags, you can use #7, 8, or 9 bird shot.
>
> [...] Note: an even less expensive source of lead is 'reclaimed shot' that
> can be purchased from skeet/trap clubs. Unfortunately, it usually
> comes in 100 lb bags (for about $30). Perhaps for dive clubs ?
> 

What are the health hazards associated with using lead shot for weights?  I
understand that your entry addresses personal safety issues (ie: don't eat,
drink, smoke, ... around the lead) and you also discuss coating the lead
afterwards (thank you!), but I'm asking in the more broad, environmentally-
conscious sense.  Just how much does all this lead polute the water (particularly
the uncoated stuff).

This is a topic that's concerned me for some time now, but I have no information
on it.  (Maybe the Audubon Society has some studies/research on it.)

Chris Russell.
From: jdale@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Dale)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Skin Diver Magazine
Date: 27 Jul 1992 06:55:22 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Jul26.175222.14305@dale.ksc.nasa.gov> sdavis@laforge.ksc.nasa.gov (Steve Davis) writes:
>
>  I recently bought my first copy of Skin Diver, mainly to check out the  
>mail-order sources in the back.  A dealer had given me a reprint (from a 1990 
>issue) of a review of the U.S.Divers Conshelf SE2 regulator, but I thought it 
>read more like an advertisement than a review.
>
> Well, it seems that _all_ of the equipment reviews in Skin Diver are written 
>in that style, with encouragement to "check out this great piece of gear at  
>your nearest _____ dealer" and the like.  It also seemed strange that all of  
>their reviews were exactly two pages long, with no interspersed advertising-- 
>making it really convenient to do single-page reprints for use by dealers.

I don't think it's anything special about that particular magazine.  Your
description fits a lot of magazines; one might even say all (I would hope that
some, like DAN's newsletter, would differ...) are like this (but maybe someone
can point at an exception?).  I think everyone involved in the diving business
is a little too cozy with everyone else.  Magazines doing everything they can
to help out manufacturers, instructors getting a commission from the dive shop
to sell their students gear, etc.  A great deal of conflict of interest.  I
would be curious to see any negative review of anything by anyone....

Jonathan Dale

(ps, please rebut this; I'd love to be proven wrong...)
From: rwu@ismdqa.intel.com (Ronnie Wu )
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Free seminar
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:27:51 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Intel Corp.


	up coming events at Any Water Sport in San Jose. Admission FREE.
I will call the shop on that day before going down, just to make sure
its happening.  phone # 244-4433 :

	Dry suit diving     Aug 4th  8:00 PM

	Altitude diving
	and dive computer   Aug 6th  8:00 pm
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: scribler@bnr.ca (Dennis Richards)
Subject: Re:Skin Diver Magazine
Reply-To: scribler@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fiber Systems Development
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:16:09 GMT

I have to agree that SDM is just a large pretty
advertisement (this includes any so called articles).
However I can see the problem with comparing products.
If a magazine says this company has a better product
or this location is better than another, the magazine
will no longer be given the opportunity to review
the location/equipment again. It's also difficult to
say that this product sucks but the next page you
see an advertisement for the same product (conflict
of interest from the view of the manufacture - who
really pays the bills for the mag. company).
As for resorts, any mag. will see a resort through
"rose coloured glasses" because they will be given
the up most service so a good report is written.
I guess you have to take everything with a gain of
salt.

The Mad Scribbler
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: bob@hubcap.clemson.edu (Bob)
Subject: SAS/Body Glove Drysuit
Keywords: drysuit
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:14:34 GMT

     Did anyone out there see the new SAS Comfort Suit in the Gear Bag
section of Rodale's August issue of Scuba Diving? If so and if anyone
out there has one of these drysuits, what is your opinion of it. I am
just getting into drysuit diving and would like to be able to dive year
round.  I would appreciate any hints or tips you all might have on
equipment. Most of my cold water diving will be off the coast of North
Carolina but, not out as far as the Gulf Stream.

Thanks in advance

Bob Staaf
bob@hubcap.clemson.edu

Newsgroups: rec.scuba,rec.boats
From: miani@ibm7.uucp (Rich Miani)
Subject: Turks vacation : scuba  info needed
Organization: NYNEX S&T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:07:22 GMT

--------------- 
We are planning a trip to the Carribean , possibly Turks , and would 
appreciate any info, experiences, etc. about diving there.

Thanks in advance,
Rich
From: davew@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Dave Waller)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Rehersal of weight belt ditching
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:22:19 GMT
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.

In rec.scuba, Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) writes:


>         If you can hold your breath for 30 seconds under water, there is a
> relatively safe way to practice weight belt ditching.  Start at the surface,
> take the regulator out of your mouth, and take a breath and hold it.  Dive to
> the bottom at say 10 to 15 feet, and release your belt there.  You will get a
> rapid ascent without possibility of embolism, as your lungs were filled at the
> surface.

WARNING     WARNING     WARNING     WARNING     WARNING     WARNING  
   
NO!!!!  Absolutely not!  This is dangerously incorrect information, and
should be ignored.

While the risk of embolism is indeed substantially reduced as a result
of avoiding breathing pressurized air at depth, it is not entirely
eliminated.  Skin divers doing breath hold diving HAVE experienced
pulmonary barotrauma.

The reason for this is the following:  When one descends, the air in
their lungs is compressed, with the total volume being reduced, and the
pressure of the air in the lung space following the ambient pressure of
the surrounding environment.  While at depth, air can and does shift
around in the lungs, much as it does in a BC while the physical
orientation of the diver changes during the dive.  For example, note
that a free diver will typically be in a head down orientation on
descent, while on ascent a head up orientation is typical.

As such, air, which is now compressed at a higher pressure, can fully
inflate some of the alveoli in the lung tissue in the areas that are
physically upright.  For these alveoli the situation is identical to
that of having taken a breath from SCUBA on the bottom.

If the weightbelt is ditched and an uncontrolled rapid ascent results,
the diver can ascend more rapidly than the air from the fully inflated
alveoli can excape to other less inflated parts of the lungs, resulting
in overexpansion and possible serious barotrauma.  Such an event is
exacerbated by narrowed bronchioles or excessive mucous in the
bronchioles, a condition that can exist in a mild form without any
apparent indication to the diver.

There really is no room for argumentation here, folks.  People HAVE
experienced barotrauma while breath hold diving.  This is one of the
reasons that certifying agencies do not risk practicing rapid ascent
maneuvers, and neither should you.  Also, it is a very good reason for
controlling your ascents at all times, and and excellent reason to
purchase a redundant air source or some sort.

Dave Waller 
YMCA Instructor
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: danw@hobbes.prime.com (Dan Westerberg)
Subject: Re: How to stop sucking air?
Organization: Prime Computer
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:52:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.183157.3776@berlioz.nsc.com>, raisty@berlioz.nsc.com (Sue Raisty) writes:
> Oops.  I messed this post up the first time...
> 
> I'm a newly cerified open water diver and I have this problem:
> I breathe too much.  Way more than everyone else I dive with.
> So is there anyway to stop sucking so much air?  I do try to 
> concentrate on taking slow even breaths, but I don't know if it is
> helping.  Does you just naturally get better at it with more 
> experience?  I'm in ok physical shape, but would more exercise help?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sue

I'm also a newly certified diver and on my cert dives I sucked a lot of air.
However, the first real dives I did were in the Keys (nice, calm diving) and
slowly began to control my breathing.

I found that I do better by breathing in normally and concentrating on exhaling
slowly.  This also helps to keep me slightly positive and off from the bottom.

My relatives in Florida have been diving since the mid-70's and hardly use
any air at all compared to me, so I believe that experience is a large factor
in controlling one's breathing.  In addition, the less stressed you are while
diving makes a *huge* difference.

You're welcome (I hope),
Dan

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  "These walls that still surround me      ~                                 ~
~   Still contain the same old me           ~     Dan Westerberg              ~
~   Just one more who's searching for       ~       danw@hobbes.prime.com     ~
~   The world that ought to be"             ~                                 ~
~                             - Neil Peart  ~  Prime Computer, Framingham, MA ~
~                                           ~                                 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Rehersal of weight belt ditching
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:24:41 GMT


In article <1992Jul28.224123.13857@herboid.uucp>, adb@herboid.uucp (Anthony DeBoer) writes:
|>Bob <bob@hubcap.clemson.edu> writes:
|>>>Bruce writes:
|>>
|>>>        If you can hold your breath for 30 seconds under water, there is a
|>>>relatively safe way to practice weight belt ditching.  Start at the surface,
|>>>take the regulator out of your mouth, and take a breath and hold it.  Dive to
|>>>the bottom at say 10 to 15 feet, and release your belt there.  You will get a
|>>>rapid ascent without possibility of embolism, as your lungs were filled at the
|>>>surface.
|>>
|>>You need to add that this is true provided you have not been diving and
|>>your blood is not already sturated.
|>
|>Umm, you also need to add that embolism and DCS are two different things. 
|>Assuming you're not already getting bent, you're not going to ingas or
|>outgas enough nitrogen in 30 seconds at 15 feet to cause yourself a
|>problem doing this.

True, but the sudden decrease in pressure may cause bubble formation
when it might not otherwise occur.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PADI Adv O/W, Night/Deep/Wreck/Equip Spec.
From: boykin@gte.com (Joseph Boykin)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Instructor/Agency Accountability
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:14:28 GMT
Reply-To: boykin@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories

In article <1992Jul24.212026.6623@dale.ksc.nasa.gov>, sdavis@laforge.ksc.nasa.gov (Steve Davis) writes:
|> 
|>   I have another question regarding instructor accountability/responsibility.   
|> As a newly-certified diver, I'm in the process of shopping for dive gear.  My  
|> instructor told everyone in our class to be sure and consult him before buying  
|> anything, which I did.  But it turns out that he stands to make a commission  
|> from anything I buy from the dive shop where I took the open water course.  He  
|> seems honest enough in giving opinions on gear that the shop doesn't carry;  
|> they sell primarily Sherwood gear, but he gave moderate praise to Dacor,  
|> ProSub, and U.S. Divers as well.
|> 
|>   It seems to me that the role of a salesman can be in direct conflict with  
|> that of an instructor, and that the two should never be mixed.  What are the  
|> positions of the certification agencies on this?  This shop is a "PADI 5-star  
|> Diving Center," which I'm beginning to read as, "Spend all of you money here."  

As far as I know, none of the agencies have any policy on this
whatsoever.  As for the "PADI 5-star diving center == Spend all
of your money here"... Somehow I doubt you'll find too many
retail stores, of any type, saying "please go somewhere else to
spend your money".  Let's get real.

The practical side of things is that most of the people who work in
dive shops are also instructors or divemasters.  They teach classes as
well as sell gear.  It is not unusual for them to make a commission.

I do fill-in as an instructor for a local dive shop, but most
of my teaching is private.  If I happen to be in the store
and someone asks me a question I answer it honestly.  Other than
the owner, no one cringes (too much!) if I'm honest.  I make 0% commission
off anything I "sell".

While I *very* much like the dive shop I deal with (East Coast Divers
in Framingham, MA) (I like the equiment they carry and the service
they provide, instructors must have a minimum of Master Scuba Diver
Trainer certification to work for them; divemasters must have the
DM rating *plus* have assisted in ten open-water classes) I don't
like *everything* about them.  As an independent instructor I am
free to have smaller classes than they would like and I am free
to tell my students about all equipment without worrying about
who will get upset with me.  Also, since I don't teach as my
primary source of income, I don't do enough of it to be "burnt out"
and still enjoy teaching it -- that shows in my classes.

Joe Boykin
PADI Instructor #46451
From: battle@umbc4.umbc.edu (Rick)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Sunburn at Morehead City
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:33:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus

On the weekend of July 18 and 19 I ventured south to Morehead
City with 10 other local divers to sample the waters off North
Carolina.  We were diving with Run Runners (Greenville NC).  They
dock their boat, Pelican (I believe that is how it is spelled) at
the Olympus dive center in Moorhead City NC.

On Saturday morning the wind was really howling at 25+ mph and
the seas were rolling a good 8 to 10 feet on the Aeolus site.
Aeolus is a 400 foot freighter sunk as part of the artificial
reef program.  Aeolus was an AT&T ship that installed trans
Atlantic cables (so the folks in Europe could watch MTV like here
in the states :-)...   )

The dive was great and the vis was about 60 to 70 feet and the
water was nice and warm.

Now the sunburn part....

The Pelican is an open boat with little protection from spray.
It is a displacement hull with little deadrise and as it plowed
through the waves everyone on board was soaked to the bone less
than 10 minutes from the dock.  Needless to say that any
sunblock I used was washed off and difficult to replace when
soaking wet.  After the dives I got chilled because of the
high wind and evaporation of my skins and wanted to get warm.

First mistake:

I took off my skins and got in to the sun.  I laid down on the
bow as much out of the wind as I could get.

Second mistake:

Tired from the dives I lost track of time and before I knew it my
chest and legs were fried.

Third mistake:

I did not take immediate action to treat the burn.

Ok what did I learn?

1. I am 40 and still stupid as hell.
2. Keep your skins on.
3. Never lay down in the sun after a tiring set of dives when you are
likely to lose track of time.

Let's examine some facts.

1. I used Coppertone SPORT SPF 30, Sweatproof, waterproof,
dry lotion.  This stuff is supposed to "bond" to your skin.  That
is unless half the Atlantic washes it off.

2. I used Solarcaine Aloe Extra and it was not very effective.
In all honesty I was WAY too burned.  I blistered and oozed for
several days. This stuff made my skin feel dry and was kind of
stickey.

3. Taking baths in cool water with AVEENO, an ultra fine powder
of oatmeal, was great. But, once out of the water the sting and
itch started all over again.

Better luck next time:

What kind of sunblock do the rest of you use?  What treatments do
you use in case of sunburn?

Anyone for night dives :-)
From: curlandm@prism.cs.orst.edu (Matt Curland)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Drysuit for sale
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:05:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept

Never used USIA drysuit. Size large. With full interior insulation suit.
$600.00.

Matt at 503-757-3150 or 484-5444


Matt Curland. .  .   .    .      .          curlandm@prism.cs.orst.edu
______________________________________________________________________
Figures won't lie, but liars will figure.
-Charles H. Grosvenor