From: m1wcc00@fed.frb.gov (Wayne C. Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Debunking the standard myth was Re: Couple of thoughts..
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:23:09 GMT
	<M1WCC00.92Aug17112846@mcfss2.fed.frb.gov>
	<55727@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>
Organization: Federal Reserve Board
In-reply-to: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com's message of 17 Aug 92 16:18:43 GMT

In article <55727@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:

   >/   leapers. There aren't too many Len Biases who can skywalk, and shoot
   >/   the lights out(yes I know there aren't any Len Biases). The question is
   >/   why is this the case, genentics or development?
   >
WC:   >Genetics.

Russ:
   So its just preordained you're either a leaper or a shooter, but you can't
   be both? It sounds a little fishy to me. 

WC: Didn't say that.  It's preordained with regard to leaping and preordained
    what kind of touch you have and it's preordained what kind of rythm you
    have and on and on.  You can be born with the ability to do all of these
    things well. 

Russ:
   Sounds a lot more like a process
   of development where you spend more time doing one thing than you do the
   other. I learned to play on the playgrounds, I never played in a gym
   until I was in 8th grade. I'm not a great shooter, my whole game is off
   the dribble take the ball to the hole. This is how we play on the playground
   and its precisely why I'm not a great shooter. I also had a 30" vertical
   jump as a sophomore in highschool before I developed jumpers knee(patellar
   tendinitis) and lost a fair bit of spring.

WC: Did you become a better shooter as your vertical declined?  That's your
    theory right?

   >Develop their ability to jump the way blacks do?  This is the crux of the
   >problem here.  You cannot develop an ability to jump past a point that is 
   >your limit.  You can improve your technique if it was flawed to begin with.
   >But that's it.  You're gonna jump as high as you were genetically designed
   >to and after that, you can kill yourself trying and not make much difference.

Russ:
   Agreed to a point, know amount of training would have made me David Thompson
   or Darrell Griffith, but I also believe that alot of what I did to increase
   my jumping ability(jumprope, millions of toe raisers,2 different kinds of
   special shoes designed to increase your spring etc.) accounted for my
   onetime ability to jump. I wasn't born with it.

WC: Was it that you couldn't jump a lick, then did mega jump
    roping and toe raises and shoes and then you could jump 30" vertically?
    What was your verticle before?  Was your body constant otherwise during
    this period or were you growing significantly?

Russ:
 Most of the kids I played
   with in highschool learned to play in YBA in gyms and they were primarily
   standstill shooters, I learned to play on local playgrounds, dominated
   by black kids.

WC: I think the proponents of this "environment affected jumping" idea are 
    overemphasizing the notion that white kids spend all their basketball
    hours in glistening gyms.  I'd be willing to bet they spend more time
    on blacktops and driveways than hardwood.  And they idolize Jordan and
    Pippen and other take it to the whole type guys and therefore aren't
    spending all their time practicing standstill shots.  

   >But blacks that jump well don't do this.  They just naturally jump.  Boing.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Russ:
   All of them do? Tell it to Oakley, and many others who can't jump.

WC: I'm trying to remain conversational as opposed to argumentative in an 
    annoying way. It gets difficult though when it seems like people don't
    read carefully before opposing.  I arrowed (^^^) above the part that you
    obviously missed.   

 
   >Most don't really have such phenomenal verticles.  You've also got to 
   >consider that there are some whites that do jump well (like Chapman and 
   >Majerle).  Seems natural that some would find their way to volleyball.  

Russ:
   Look do me a small favor, spend 2 hours playing 2 on 2 volleyball in
   the sand. then wake up the next day and feel the burn in your calves
   and thighs. Now do this 6 months out of the year all through jumior
   high and highschool. You seriously think it won't increase your leap?
   Thats why there's a lot of skywalkers in So Cal volleyball, there are
   at least 3 white guys now on the pro tour with 38" or better jumps,
   and 38 is flying, there's not that many in the NBA better than that.

WC: 3 guys.  Well that supports my statement that their are a few white guys
    that can jump.  Just like there are some blacks that can't.  And, as I
    said before, no, I don't think a million years of jumping around in the
    sand will help anyone jump significantly better.  Nope.