HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Canada
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:33:49 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

In article <1992Sep4.130834.20253@bcrka451.bnr.ca> bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
>Well, our crime rate is much lower.  Most people don't feel the need to carry
>a firearm... even in our largest city, Toronto.

In the provence of New Foundland even the police don't carry guns. In Vancouver,
our third largest city it is safe to walk through the park at night.

>
>But more importantly, Canada is a multicultural country, and as such has 
>written laws in its Charter of Rights to permit freedom of religion.  Heck,
>there's even been a debate in this country about our national anthem being
>sexist and religiously oriented... all this started due to our new Charter
>of Rights and Freedoms.  This is the same document that struck down our
>abortion law as being unconstitutional.

I believe the Charter's provisions were also the basis for the recent Ontario
supreme court ruling that states that gay/lesbian spouses are entitled to
the same benifits as hetro spouses. 
>
>We're not perfect, but with the major "morality" and "family values" squads
>running around in the US, we at least seem to have something to protect our-
>selves with (the Charter).
 
Add the fact that traditionally we tend to get less fanatical about things.
Though we have our share of fundies and bigots, they have far less power
here. 

Yes, this place is not perfect, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Peace be with you
	Tim the Canadian

A follower of the Jewish carpenter from backwoods Galilee...theologically
liberal and politically socialist.
From: radzy@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lynne Radzykewycz)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:24:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Response from a Freemason (was: Re: Masons/Knights Templar)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt, MM 32) writes:

> Masons are deists, although many today would not realize that it is the
> correct term for them. The only reason I have heard given for excluding
> Atheists is that they must be able to swear by a higher authority that they
> will abide by their oaths. 

This is interesting indeed.  I had always assumed that because the
Order of the Rainbow for Girls (the masonic organization for young women) 
was Christian, Freemasonry must be Christian too.

I'll grant that there are a few non-Christian (pagan?) symbols in Rainbow,
but there is such an overwhelming amount of Christian symbolism and 
references to capital-G god that I can't see it being other than
Christian.  Even the name of the Order is derived from a Christian
historical event.  I believe (thinking waaayyyy back) that the Initiation
Candidate must vow that she believes in God, not just in a Supreme Being.  
Someone please correct me on this if I wrong.

Knowing the history of the Order of the Rainbow, I'm guess I shouldn't be 
surprised to see this.  After all, Rainbow was established in the 
United States in 1922 by a Master Mason who was also an ordained minister 
of the Christian (Disciples) Church.

I don't regret my Rainbow experiences because it showed me how much I
love rituals, but even while I was still a member I grew to dislike its
overwhelming Christian focus.  How are Eastern Star and DeMoley about these 
things?

--Lynne 


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From:  (Michael Snider)
Subject: Re: Wicca (was Re: Pat Robertson)
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: BNR
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:10:46 GMT

> (Donal) wrote in reply to a post of mine:
> 
> >(Michael Snider) writes:
> 
> 
> > Critics quarrel with other critics. With an artist, no sane man quarrels.  
> > 
> >                                                    George Santayana        
> 
> I like this one... mind if I keep it?   :)
> 

Of course you can.   I found it in Leshan, Lawrence, & Margenau, Henry, 
_Einstein's Space and Van Gogh's Sky: Physical Reality and Beyond._  A
pretty 
good book that I violently disagree with.


***** Michael Snider ********** alas, no email, so reply by post ******

Talk of fame, honor, pleasure, wealth, all are dirt compared with
affection.
                                                   Charles Darwin          

Critics quarrel with other critics. With an artist, no sane man quarrels.  

                                                   George Santayana
From: liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: fanaticalism
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 23:14:44 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

        Well, it seems that I have made an ass out of myself due to my 
tendency to get fanatical when it comes to somthing I believe in.  I wish 
to publicly apologise to anyone that has been offended or angered by my 
previous postings.  I guess I forgot that all of us are in the same boat  
as far as discrimination goes and vented my fustration on the wrong 
people (my own), while not realizing that these same people are just as 
scared and fustrated as I am.  
        So, now that we know what we disagree on in this, lets tryto find 
some common ground.   thank you,
                            Blessed Be,
                                     Liam

------------------
liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)
(Alternate) liam%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu)
Subject: hello
Reply-To: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:42:15 GMT

Merry meet, all
First of all, don't freak out at my usename (I've had Wiccan friends who
told me not to use Morgaine). I use it because of the view of Morgaine le Fey presented in Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Mists of Avalon".
Anyways, I'm a freshman at Brandeis University in Waltham, MA. I've been studying Wicca out of books for a little under two years and would now like to find a practicing Wiccan in my area who is willing to teach me some of the hands-on 
stuff. My particular interests are healing and music. If you have any leads,
please let me know--this is very important to me. Thank you!
Also--any Mercedes Lackey fans out there? If you are, and if you have read thebook "Born To Run" which she wrote with her husband, I can really recommend the
Celtic/metal band Tempest. They are similar to the band Terra Nova which is
referred to in the book. I saw Tempest at Tower Records in Harvard Square and they are really good, even if you don't normally like metal or hard rock.
			Blessed Be, 
				"Morgaine"
From: loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: HEAVEN
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:50:41 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
 >And a note to Ciaran, if you are listening:
 >
 >Just how does one contact the Fey? And just how "intelligent" are they?
 >Can you communicate with them?
 >
 >I suppose either a new thread or e-mail is in order...
 >

	New thread please.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.privacy
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: privacy act
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:25:17 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: In article <1992Aug20.202321.18613@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> marlow@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes:
: 
: > After that night in jail, the wife could press addisioal charges to keep your ass there.  Watch COPS on Fox T.V. channel on Saturday Nights.  This 
: > ussually happens a lot on that program.
: 
: Oh, excuse me for impugning the accuracy and impartiality of your
: information source.  You obviously have a very reliable and enviably
: unbiased source of information.

Interesting that there are so many people who still believe that if they
see it on the idiot box, that it is true.

Bill
From: wang!ailanth!ailsa@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bailing Out (rant) (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as ever
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:30:59 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:

> How nice for you.
>
> I'm sure it's very reassuring to those who have advanced technical degrees,
> plenty of money, or other tickets to easy emigration, to realize that if
> things start getting too bad, they can simply bail out on the rest of us.
> Plenty of P/pagans and other soon-to-be-undesirables don't have that
> option, but that's their problem, isn't it?
>
> If this country does become a fascist theocracy, it will be because those
> people who might have made a difference chose to follow their own narrow
> self-interest instead.
>
> If, on the other hand, this country is ever going to become what Janis'
> grandparents came looking for, we'd better get working.  Hard.  And
> despite the fact that our precious egos may get bruised in the process,
> *together*. I suspect Janis' grandparents knew that; I know mine do --
> and unless a lot of us learn it over the months and years to come, we
> are going to perish.
>
> End of flame.  Now get off your duffs and do something.

fuck you.  as one of those who is planning on moving if thingsd get bad, i
resent this diatribe highly.  i AM a gay righst activist, i HAVE gotten off my
duff and done something, but i am NOT willing to sacrifice my custody of my
daughter to "fight the good fight".  nothing is worth that.  there are pother
countries, and i can go there.  if you're so desirous of the peopel who could
make a difference doing something, what are YOU doing???

and i'm a welfare mother.  i'd be leaving EVERYTHING i have except katy behind
to go, but go i will, if it seems necessary.  i'm not goign to stick around for
this country to become the fucking _handmaid's tale_.  if i hear rumbles of
threats tp my family, i'm outta here.

                                            -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     wang!ailanth!ails@ulowell.ulowell.edu         ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
From: system@korova.uucp (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 00:36:10 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:
>           I've heard it said by libertarians that Heinlein was one of 
> theirs. I have certainly found plenty of Heinlein worshippers among the
> libertarian science fiction crowd. 

hehe...i am, so i suppose that might be considered true on my case, 
anyway. he didnt want the government to intervene in any way. he was very 
much for the freedom of the individual. government and politics were 
neglected except in a few rare exceptions..
when he did include them, they were but as lessons. oh, i forget the one, 
but it was a short story about "what if a religious movement swept and 
overtook the government"...the main character was a soldier working for 
them...but he rebelled...heinlien was very much for rebellion and 
detachment of the government...i dont think he liked control over any 
part of our lives...

>          Revolt in 2100 had a lot to do with freedom of thought and, in
> that regard, he was anything but militaristic. I think he definitely wants
> to promote libertarian ideas though. 
> 
>          Anyone read "Job"? That was a very interesting idea -- that all
> the dieties are on some planet somewhere -- sort of a 'free market' of 
> religious ideas and they are competing for followers. 

yeah, well, being of a slightly SubGeniusian bent, i think everything is 
for sale, including faith and deityhood..just what might be the price?
squiddie

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:01:49 GMT

Gee, I have a brother in Bellingham, WA...  I really like Vancouver.  Anyone
wanna look into a pagan diaspora to BC if the elections go badly in November?

/* almost serious, but wish I weren't */
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Intolerance and the pagan "community"
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:55:18 GMT

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
: In article <1992Aug23.200126.22684@lmt.mn.org> 
: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
: >  "Failure to smile, talking back to elders, bad attitude.  Farm,
: >immediately.  Heart attack this time, I think." (a boy & his dog)
:                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Ah, now that might be a good pagan movie. Of course the ending is a bit
: tough to take, maybe, depends on your attitude. Borders on misogyny but
: I would have done the same thing, so who knows, perhaps I'm really a
: misogynist. I wonder if this is where the GOP gets it's idea of good
: family values?

It was made into a movie. It even follows the short story quite closely.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jfisher@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jim Fisher)
Subject: Re: Yet more music...
Followup-To: jfisher@vela.acs.oakland.edu 
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:31:43 GMT


Merry Meet all......


I apologize if this has come up before, but I just stumbled upon this thread..


Has anyone mentioned a woman named Loreena Mckennitt yet?  She is a canadian
artist and her music is some of the most beautiful celtic/pagan sounds I have
heard in a long time.  She has at least one album out called "The Visit"  which
is a terrific blend of harp and mesmerizing vocals.  I highly recommend that
you pick this one up!

Again, sorry if it's been mentioned before, but I thought it was worth the
risk of repition :)


Blessed Be

Jim
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: some more slightlPagan-flavored music
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:28:12 GMT

Okay, so it's not REALLY Pagan; it sure as hell feels like it.

It's an opera lled "Treemonisha," and it's written by Scott Joplin, the
greatest American composer who ever drew breath, and one of the greatest
in the world (I'm a serious ragtime lover, and am convinced that for
sheer breadth, it remains the most vivid and underappreciated genre of
music).  It concerns a woman named Treemonisha, daughter of Monisha, who
has been, alone among her people, educated and hence can read.  She
wishes to free her people from the fetters of superstition and gets in  
the way of another man named Zodzetrick (or something like that) who
wants to make some easy money by selling bags of luck.  She convinces
people not to buy them , so he wants to punish her by shoving her into a
waspnest, according to superstition.  She is, of course, rescued in the
nick otime, and after Zodzetrick is run out of town, the people beg her
to become their leader, to which she replies that she will be a teacher
only.  

She also discovers that, despite her great love for Monisha, she is not
Monisha's own daughter.  She was found by her under a great big tree,
and was named for the thing, which she loved since she was a gir

She is also a tremendously strong minded woman character, written by a
man of the 1900's.  I like her very much.  They music, of course, is
also ntastic, as is everything by Joplin.  

*I* love the thing.

Blessings,
Janis
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: That Elvis thing
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:01:47 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Aug27.064530.13591@colorado.edu>, bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU
(Bear Giles) writes:

>Does this mean pagans can breath freely?  Not really.  It's pretty
>clear that the Republicans are on the ropes, but the conservative
>branch is already planning it's comeback in '94.  Sorry, '96.  
>
>The next four years won't be as bad as they would have been under
>Bush II (sounds like a B-grade horror movie), but they won't be a
>cakewalk either.

Actually, I don't know if I should be more scared if Bush ot Clinton got into
power...  Actually my fear isn't of Clinton himself, but of his runningmate Al
Gore.  Keep in mind that this is the person who is married to Tipper Gore, and
has backed her in politics up to now.  Tipper Gore anywhere near power scares
me shitless.  She helped form the PMRC, which got many records self-banned (by
the record companies, and helped get groups like the Dead Kennedies ARRESTED)
because they don't support "traditional family values".

Either way we are going to be in for hell over the next few years...

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: a party
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 14:30:28 GMT

The farmers party that was founded in the mid to late 1800'S never won
an election but there vouce was herd well enufe that they did git the 
changes that they wonted. they were able to let utheres know that they 
were there and that they wernt going to let any one push them around.
500k? if every one of those people donated .50$ then there would be
250K$ in the cofers for bying are time and making comershals. us 
area pagens and a home camera and most of that would go for are time.
this group would not be *just* for pagens it would be for every one
with an alternit life style. You dont nead a trillone doller budgit
to git your vouce herd. there are oganizations with smaler budgets
that git there mesige threw.


ELF-KIN
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:49:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Fundies: expensive
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

>   What to call this 'movement'?  For lack of a better name, 'The New 
> Enlightenment'.  
> PAt Buchanan has put it right.  We are living in an age of cultural 
> warfare.  I think it's time to fight back by cutting them off at tyhe 
> roots.
 
          And how do you suggest that we might go about doing so? I 
would certainly be interested in hearing. ;-) 


-reykjavik

                       The seeking of wisdom is the highest virtue-
                                           --Odin--

>
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: some favorite Bible verses
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:16:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: intercon.199209012119.AA00769

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
> I think you forgot the smoking gun of Christianity, Luke 14:26.

Oh, come now.  You can no doubt find an isolated passage in *any* sacred text 
that taken out of context sounds like a "smoking gun."  Have you bothered to 
read the surrounding text, though?  It's amazing how helpful that can be, 
sometimes...

Sigh.


Amanda Walker
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.individualism
From: rks@teal.csn.org (Reykja K. Sigurdsson)
Subject: Abandoning the Sinking SghipII
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:34:05 GMT

    Jack Campin writes (in essence) that leaving the country is nothing
more than becoming beholden to the regime of that particular country. 
Further that one will always become a dissident if one is a free thinker.
Further that one can run and not hide.
Further that Iceland wants to keep out the needy and only admit 
"rich, white Americans" like myself. 

    To clear up the most obvious assumption; I am not a rich white 
American. Quite the obvious is true. A large part of my decision to leave
is based on the fact that the only people who have value in this society
are wealthy. One can work all of his/her life and still end up on the
street because of an illness or other disaster. Look at what is happening
to the folks in Florida. Bush wants to take up donations to house and
feed those *tax-paying* people -- who now must depend on charity! 

    I ordinarily do not respond to ad hominem arguments. I invite 
flames if someone feels that is necessary -- but stick to the issue. 
My financial status is not the issue. Nor is my color. 

    One can be a free thinker and not a dissident. Sometimes the 
largest degree of wisdom is in knowing when fighting is not necessary. 
During this journey, I suppose we all go through the stage of fighting
and rebeling against everything. Maturity involves being able to discern
when that is really necessary. It also involves making informed choices 
for oneself. What makes more sense? Sitting and bitching or doing 
something practical to change it? Sometimes separation is necessary. 
It can be a hard decision but sometimes necessary. Just like in 
relationships, sometimes we have to say "we just don't do well together."

    I would not make a decision without checking it out thoroughly and
I have spent a great deal of time in Iceland. I only know 'regular 
people." I do not know the ruling elite and have no adopted anyone's 
attitudes. I think for myself. 

    I don't believe for a minute that the universe is run by an
omnipresent, malign being. The problems we are having were created
by humankind. Blaming it on a supernatural being is a cop-out. As the 
saying goes, (paraphrased), we looked for the enemy and found it is 
us." 


wassail.

-reykja
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Masons/Knights Templar
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:05:12 GMT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

> gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson) writes:
> 
> >> I really doubt the masons are "luciferian" in any religious sense...
> >Our Odhinnsgodi has a Masonic Bible that his father had before him.  In 
> >that bible it is clearly stated that they are Luciferians.  If i did not 
> >have a reason for stating such, I would not have made the statement.
> > 
> Can you please quote the exact text from the Masonic Bible?  Also, please 
> include publishing information so that I can check the reference directly.
> 
>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                                Br'anArthur
> 
> Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

 
will do, but give me a few days, won't be able to see the book again, 
until friday (4th september)...
 
Gerda

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!