From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )
Subject: Re: Adults, Children and sex
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:11:08 GMT

Dan O'Connell writes:

>And I and ljf had already noted that when the weaker party is 
>below a certain age, it is STILL unconscionable to condone sexual
>relations between much-older-adults and much-younger-children.

Would you care to specify the age, and give reasons why it is
"conscionable" to condone sexual relations above that age, yet
not below it?  Would you care to define "sexual relations"
since I have never specified that sexual activities means genital
sexual intercourse?  And perhaps you could specify what you
consider to be the definition of "adult"?  I hope you, after all
the spouting and fulmination about abuse and horror, are not doing
so without knowing even what you yourself mean.

> The given question was based on false assumptions.  ...
>
>These assumptions are ones you have attributed to others. No
>one else has actually made them, your claim notwithstanding.
>
>If you would care to quote me or someone else in this thread
>to that effect, I await your attribution.

Be careful what you ask for, Dano...

>You point to 1st and 2nd
>person accounts from the people who were involved with this
>activity when they were children.
>
>Cite me a study that says otherwise and I'd be glad to reconsider.

When abuses are being claimed, "1st and 2nd person accounts" are
considered just peachy in these newsgroups.  Only when abuse is not
being claimed do you shift the ground and ask for different rules of
evidence to be followed.  Great ethical standards, Dano.  But I must
admit you are certainly following standard practice in these newsgroups.

>In any event, (1), (2), and (3) even if shown to be false
>do not support the case either individually or collectively
>that older-adult younger-child sex ought to be encouraged,
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^
Please note the shift from "condoned" above to "encouraged" here...
great ethical standards of discourse you practice, Dano.

>In case you forgot or simply didn't read the posts to which
>I and others were responding which you responded to, 

I apologize for being away for most of a year, and missing part of
the thread.  However, my arguments don't stand or fall on your anger
at someone else's disagreement with your beliefs.

>original arguments were posted in which it was commented that society
>ought to condone:

"Condone"?  or simply use a different approach to the way we treat
such activities, an approach that does not involve abusive acts
of revenge, and instead attempts to actually stop future traumas
and heal present ones?  Your responses to me suggest you are using
the word "condone" (and "encourage") as a deliberately false
distortion of anyone else's position in a concerted effort to
preserve our present methods of procedure which are an utter, abject
failure.

>it is *you* not I who is making the case for society condoning
>adult-child sex. The burden of making the case is yours. 

Since I have never "condoned" (nor has anyone else as far as I have
been able to read) anything, I see no burden of making a case which
you falsely created.  Burn your own strawman, Dano.

>As usual you completely avoid the question and go off on a
>tangent.

I have no obligation to answer a question which you falsely stated.
And I have every right to steer the discussion back to real issues
being discussed.

>The fact that you see no harm in a 5 year old boy 
>fellating his 18 year old brother reinforces my
>opinion that you are "unusual".

At least Soyack had the intellectual honesty to make his slimey
innuendos clear.  

Meanwhile, I asked you to specify exactly what this "harm" was that
you have mentioned several times, and you have avoided doing so.

Should I give you some ideas to help you out here?  Was the harm
based on the older brother raping his younger brother by remaining
absolutely motionless?  Or in allowing his younger brother to commit
the felony of rape on him by being asleep when the act started?

-- 
	     tom chapin                tjc@hrcce.att.com
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