HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Death Announcement: SEPTA Trolleys in North Philadelphia
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:29:06 GMT
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

Sandy Smith, temporarily bereft of his newsgroup access, has asked me to post
a follow-up to his article on the impending demise of three trolley lines in 
Philadelphia.  I tried to do it earlier today, but for reasons I'm absolutely
unable to comprehend (and I'm not an inexperienced news user), I apparently
ended up reposting Sandy's original article.

I had written to Sandy questioning his assertion that one of the lines sche-
duled for closure is the longest in the world.  (I cited long lines that I 
knew about in Boston, Baltimore, and San Diego.)  Sandy responds thus:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me wipe the egg off my face. I just did an approximate measurement of the
23's route (based on SEPTA's Philadelphia street and transit map) and came up
with ~12.5 miles Chestnut Hill<->South Philly, which would definitely place it
behind the new Baltimore line (about 18 miles, as I recall) and the Highland
Branch route in Boston (~14 miles(?)). I don't know about San Diego.

If we want to pick nits, one can call the 23 the world's longest *streetcar*
line, as it has absolutely *no* reserved-ROW running, and the other three
lines are either entirely (Highland Branch) or largely (SD and Balto) on PROW.
(The 23 also runs down two of Center City's narrow streets, which (IMO) provi-
ded further encouragement for SEPTA to discontinue that line. (The 15 and 56 
(not 53, as I had posted) run in much wider streets that could be partially
rebuilt with reserved medians -- if anyone had the money to do it...:-)

Sandy  (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Administrative Assistant, Graduate Division, SAS
16 College Hall/6378
(215-89)8-4940
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: VIA's excellent, Amtrak sticks bigtime
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:47:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> William Moss writes:
> 
> There's usually (but not always) a choice of sandwiches, including, usually,
> ham&cheese, salmon or tuna, and egg salad. All look fairly substantial.
> Note that the free pop is anything you want, as long as it's pepsi or 7up
> (:-).
> The orange and tomato juices you see on the cart are available only to
> purchasers of mixed drinks.


When I returned from Ottawa to Toronto on a morning train, I got my orange
juice free...maybe the porter screwed up or something, I dunno.

> 
> If you order at least 48 hours in advance, special meals, including kosher,
> are
> available.
> 
> In VIA I (1st class) more substantial meals with wine are offered. For those
> ordering kosher meals in advance, there's a choice of beef or chicken.


I've seen this word used in VIA literature before: kosher.  What does that
mean?  Vegetarian-style or something?


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Date: 23 Aug 92 05:27:57 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Aug20.182611.24171@ntmtv> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.131543.2288@tellab5.tellabs.com>, dawdy@tellabs.com (Dan Dawdy) writes:
> |> trains I don't think is a high priority.  If you look at the number
> |> of trains plus people you can see it's hardly a big problem.  We are
> |> still talking human waste which does decompose rather quickly.
> [...]
> |> I think we have to get our priorities in order in many places in the
> |> country and this is one of them.  Just my .02
> 
> I agree.
> 
> I am amazed at how bent out of shape some people get over a little
> poo-poo here and there.  Remember, this "problem" is no worse than
> pets that routinely defacate/urinate on lawns, parks and sidewalks.
> Why is human waste any more dangerous/unacceptable than that of
> animals that we keep in and around our homes and farms?

Are you completely ignorant of public health principles or just trying
to assert an attitude?

Animal wastes (with the exceptions of some parasites) have a relatively
low cross-infection potential.  Human wastes harbor human disease germs
and parasites - the difference is more than esthetic.

>                                                              Just like
> with any other "manure", human waste is biodegradable and when dropped
> randomly out the bottom of moving trains is likely to be pretty thinly
> dispersed along a private railroad right of way and is rendered largely
> harmless/unoffensive within a matter of hours.

The degree of bio-degradation basically depends on the conditions and
transit time from raw sewage to point of "contamination".  Sun-baked on
the rocks for a couple days, no problem.  Washed down a drainage ditch
into an apparently "non-polluted" watercourse...
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:26:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia

John:

While I don't blame the crew for walking off the job, your
choice of the term "Amtrak dumped" seems to imply that the
train crew emptied the toilets.  If you think about it, you
will remember that the passengers are the ones operating 
the flush buttons.  Even the passengers can't tell where
they are dumping their do-do.  IMO it is only indirectly
Amtrak's fault, since they can't easily control passenger
behavior.  They still bear some responsibility, however,
for buying cars without holding tanks.  It is rather 
surprising in these days of supposed ecological consciousness
that they would have accepted such a design, and even more
surprising that they haven't bebuilt the systems.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Death Announcement: SEPTA Trolleys in North Philadelphia
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:45:47 GMT

In article <86217@netnews.upenn.edu>, sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
|> 
|> Despite obvious problems with operating streetcars on this city's narrow
|> streets, IMHO, there is still plenty of room for streetcars in Philadelphia's
|> transit mix; given enlightened City policies and a stronger committment from
|> SEPTA, they might even flourish.  I think the City could be persuaded on the
|> former; I hold little hope for the latter.
 
 I don't think it's a policy problem; it seems to be more of a money problem.
Philadelphia has been flat broke for as long as I can remember. The strongest
commitment in the world isn't going to swing any clout as long as it doesn't 
have the financial power to back it up. 
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Pro-Environment. Pro-Education. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice. 
     \_| Pro-Change. Pro-America. Pro-Clinton.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Our Times, Canadian pro-union magazine
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:30:45 GMT

Sometimes the magazines published by railway companies for their
employees, and by railway unions for their members, can be fairly
interesting. If you publish a newsletter for an association of rail or
transit passengers, you would probably benefit from reading the internal
publications of the rail or transit operations you deal with.
 
The following message is about Our Times magazine, which deals with
union-related issues generally, not just rail union stuff. Our Times will
be of particular interest to anyone who belongs to a union or works in a
unionized workplace, and I am posting the message here primarily for
railway employees and former employees.
 
(begin forwarded message)

Interested in reading about life from a pro-union perspective? Then you
should SUBSCRIBE to Canada's independent labour magazine, OUR TIMES. Since
we're independent of any one union, OUR TIMES can criticize both what
unions and big business are doing when it affects the lives of workers.
 
Read about corruption in the Teamsters, Women confronting RCMP
strikebreakers in the Northwest Territories, democracy (or lack of it) in
unions, and the life-threatening conditions of construction workers in the
September issue.
 
Send $3 for a sample copy to 
 OUR TIMES magazine, 
 Circulation Department/Usenet,
 390 Dufferin Street, 
 Toronto, Ontario M6K 2A3, Canada. 
Annual subscriptions (8 issues) are $20 for individuals, $32 for
institutions. Call Mike at (416) 531-5762 to order or fax (416) 533-2397.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: dtm@castle.ed.ac.uk (D Muxworthy)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: VIA's excellent, Amtrak sticks bigtime
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:57:08 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

At least four messages in the last day or two have said that the Canadian
runs through from Vancouver to Toronto, so by Lewis Carroll's rule it must
be true.  However in Jasper station last week there were references only
to Vancouver - Winnipeg trains and Jasper - Prince Rupert trains.  Maybe
the VIA staff there should be told.
David Muxworthy
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6614 ba.transportation:2043
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Speed of Portland LRVs
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:27:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> Most current LRVs can travel at 55mph, which they do on private rights of 
> way.  MAX (Portland) is very speedy once out of downtown, ...

Shortly after the Portland system opened, their LRVs were restricted to 55 
mph so that cars "racing" them on a parallel freeway wouldn't be tempted to 
speed.  Does anyone know whether that preposterous policy is still in effect?

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: UP hog train
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:07:09 GMT

I am wondering about the rolling stock used on the UP pig
trains.  A few years ago they were still using the yellow
and silver UP double deck stock cars.  (I remember seeing
long lines of these waiting in the UP's LA yard ready to
go back east in the 1970s).  Are the HOGX cars, which 
were described as green, the same cars sold off like the
SP did with their old wooden been gondolas?  Are the cars
leftovers from some other line's stock operation (like the
NP which had some pretty modern stock cars)?  Or are they
new cars built (or rebuilt) for this service?  Are both
HOGX and UP cars mixed?  Could some UP fans or someone with
access to an Official Register shed some light on this
please?
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: CZ94000 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: VIA's LRC locomotives (was Re: VIA's excellent...)
Organization: McGill University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:15:41 GMT

In article <14347@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, but does VIA still use the LRC engines?
>
>When I was back in TO, I went and toured the Mimico maintenance facility.  I
>asked one of the shop foremen that exact question and his reply was simple.  A
>few (3 or 4) are still in service and are used on the TO-Montreal line.  All

I've seen 6 LRC locomotives in service this year, and The Canadian
Trackside Guide says there are 10 on the active roster.  There
are at least 4 in service every day, since trains #166 and 167
(16:00 departure from Toronto and Montreal, respectively) each
use two LRC units.  Trains #60 and 61 also regularly use an LRC unit.

>other trains are hauled by F40's (with the exception of a couple of small
>branchlines that still use FP9's.)

FP9As are used on the Montreal-Jonquiere and Montreal-Seneterre-Cochrane
trains.  They are also used as second units behind an F40 on the
Montreal-Halifax trains.  I believe Winnipeg-Churchill uses special
FP9As with the steam generator removed, because of weight restrictions
on this line.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Looking for book: _South_Pacific_Coast,_A_Centennial_
Date: 11 Aug 92 02:19:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Helen Keller Bondurant High Performance Driving School for the Blind
Originator: aland@infmx

I'm hoping to find a copy of the following out-of-print book:

South Pacific Coast
   A Centennial
By Bruce MacGregor and Richard Truesdale
ISBN 0-87108-545-3   Pub. 1972 (or 82?), F/E
published by Pruett Publishing, Boulder, CO

If anybody knows where a copy can be bought, please shoot me some email.
I've check with several Bay Area and Sacramento area hobby shops and 
bookstores without success.  I met Mr. MacGregor a while back, and he 
didn't have any idea where copies could be obtained.  Thanks in advance.

--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

  Smith and Wesson: the Ultimate Point-and-Click User Interface.
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6592 ba.transportation:2036
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:47:50 GMT
Followup-To: ba.transportation
Distribution: na
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Aug17.125555@wsl.dec.com>, gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.192242.10660@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
> |> You're comparing an LRV full out against a BART train in service.  I
> |> encountered a story over ten years ago (from two different,
> |> independent sources) that some BART engineers once tried to find out
> |> how fast the trains could go.  Report was that they lost their nerve
> |> going around a turn at 120 mph . . .
> 
> Which is when the motor burned out right?  Besides LRVs could go
> much faster than 55 as well.  I'm talking about the use of both
> systems in practice, not in a theoretical sense.

Nope.  They slowed it down.  According to the reports I heard, the
train was still accelerating.

I won't argue that the LRVs will go over 55, but that's the way the
article was written.  In practice, they don't do that any more than
BART trains do 120.  In theory, no one actually know what a BART train
will do--only that i's something greater than 120.  What's the highest
you've ever heard of someone getting out of an LRV?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Signal/communication technology
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:50:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


When I was in Arkansas last year there was a lot of signal work and
track repair being done on the Union Pacific, formerly Missouri Pacific
line.  This year the work seemed to be all finished.  I noticed that
there is no longer a pole line alongside the tracks.  So what are they
using for signal communication these days?  Buried wire? Buried fiber?
I also noticed some trackside equipment cabinets had poles with little
Yagi antennas on the top, looked like maybe 1GHz frequency.  Is this
using radio for signal communication?  Or cellular phone? Or something
else?
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: schumann@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Comparing other systems to BART
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:57:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Minnesota State University System

In article <STRANGE.92Aug11102613@hang.dec.com>,
strange@zk3.dec.com (Steve Strange) writes, in part:
> In article <l8dna6INNed8@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> 
>    |> Is the BART fare collection system unique to the BART system? In this
>    |> system, you buy magnetic-coded cards that have a certain value, and
>    |> put the card through a reader at the beginning and the end of the
>    |> trip.  A value is subtracted from the card, depending on the length of
>    |> the trip.
> 
>    DC's Metro uses the same system.  In fact, at one time, the DC Metro
>    actually accepted BART fare cards.   I don't know if that's still true
>    (forgot to try it last time).
> 
> I believe Metro was modelled after BART.  I tried using a BART card
> in Metro -- didn't work.  This is as of sometime last year.

In fact, I seem to recall that both systems were designed by the same
company.  I believe that this company did both the fare collection systems
and the rolling stock, which would explain the similarities.

Anyone remember which company did this work?
--
   Paul L. Schumann, Ph.D.           |  VAX:  IN%"schumann@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU"
   Professor of Management           |  Office Phone:       (507) 389-5349
   Mankato State University          |  Secretary's Phone:  (507) 389-2966
   Mankato, MN   56002-8400          |  Fax Number:         (507) 389-5497
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:10:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <168487FCA.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:

>Amtrak is now under Federal mandate to correct this "problem", and the modern
>cars that do not have holding tanks will be retrofitted with them over the next
>several years.  This mandate will almost certainly be the reason (or excuse)
>for the final death of the "Heritage Fleet", since the conversion supposely
>can't be economically justified.  (You mean it costs more to retrofit holding
>tanks for the toilets than it cost to convert to HEP?!??!)  I suspect that the

Let us remember that the heritage fleet is 15 years older now than
when it was converted to HEP.

Also, most of the cars are nearing the 40-year age... quite a large
number, and also the legal maximum age for an interchange freight
car... anyone know of such a rule for passenger equipment?
-- 
===============================================================================
Dennis Lippert   -   macman+@pitt.edu or macman@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Hillman Research Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
"All comments are mine, you'd look like a fool if *you* used them"
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Rail Access to Airports
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:47:10 GMT

There's currently a proposal in Sydney, Australia, to provide an extension of
the city's heavy rail network to the first airport at Mascot.  Two options
are being considered:

	- A completely new underground line from the city to the Airport
	- Upgrading an old goods line near the Airport to take suburban trains
		with new connections/extensions to the exisiting network

Both options would have two stations in the Airport itself, one under the
domestic terminal and one under the international terminal.  It is also
proposed that two new suburban commuter stations would be built along this new
Airport line.

Transport proposals to the site of the second airport at Badgery's Creek,
about 50 km west of the city haven't been developed yet.  Construction of the
new airport is to begin in 1995.
-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | What does
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | your
Services R&D   |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | company
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | export?
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6556 ba.transportation:2019
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:26:28 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <1992Aug17.060152.22998@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
|> 	Light rail would be the cheapest option, since typical
|> light-rail lines will go right in the middle of streets. But its
|> capacity is not terribly high, and LRV's are typically relatively
|> slow. I remember riding a Santa Clara County LRV along its entire
|> route, and I remember a southward section that was parallel to a
|> freeway. The cars on it were clearly faster. When I rode a BART train
|> on its Concord line, there was also a freeway along the route, and I
|> noticed the BART train being as fast as the cars along it.
|> 

Most current LRVs can travel at 55mph, which they do on private
rights of way.  MAX (Portland) is very speedy once out of downtown,
and SCCTD (San Jose) cruises quite nicely once passed Technology
Center.  BART will do ~70mph on the Concord line, very speedy, but
only 15mph faster than the LRVs at full out.  Once in an urban area they
both have to slow down.  LRVs for traffic, BART for more frequent
shorter spaced stops.  The measure of LRV vs. something like BART
is carrying capacity.  A ten car BART train can cary many more people
per train than a two car LRV.

Later,
George

-- 
If you believe that there is a god, a god that made your body, and yet
you think that you can do anything with that body that's dirty, then the
fault lies with the manufacturer.
					Lenny Bruce
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Train from SF to Chicago(Now Amtrak phone #)
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:25:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

THe official guide lists 202-383-3000 as the Amtrak General Information
phone number


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