From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:27:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1dpfsmINNpr2@hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com> teri@sdd.hp.com (Teri Tracey) writes:

>**Men (or anyone) who have never experienced the type of societal pressures 
>that many women do, usually **don't understand** what it's like to be a 
>woman and to be bombarded by Madison Avenue's images of the ideal woman.**   
>You really *don't* have any idea, although you *think* you do.


   Well, we may be getting into metaphysical issues of free will
   here, but . . . 

   *ALL* of us are under societal pressures.  But if you believe that
   free will exists then you have to admit that ultimately your
   decisions are up to you.

   Society tells me that as a happily married, affluent, suburban
   male, I should start a family.   But I don't care to.   A basic
   feature of American culture that almost everyone participates
   in is television.   But I don't watch TV.   As an affluent
   American consumer I'm expected to buy a new car periodically,
   but I drive a 9-year-old s***box, and when it goes I'll buy
   another used car.    My generation was raised on disco and 
   rock music but I square-dance.   Etc, et cetera.


>I'm not sure how to bring people to that understanding, either.   You can't
>understand what it can be like to grow up female.  It's not just "stepping 
>into her shoes for a few-second thought experiment."  It's living her 
>life of Vogue magazines and MTV videos and Woman's Day--whether she 
>consciously chooses to accept these messages or not!

   Hold it, hold it.   Your parents strapped you into a chair, put
   your head in a restraint and projected pages from Vogue and Women's
   Day onto a screen, forcing you to watch?!   Your TV doesn't have
   an on/off switch?!   What kind of nightmarish _1984_ world are 
   you living in?

   My wife, who is a successful product manager at a software company,
   never fell for any of this stuff.   She's judged on her talents
   and abilities.  Since her job requires frequent customer and 
   prospect contact she's always well-groomed in a proper, conservative
   business respect, just as I would have to be in the same job.
   But she doesn't wear makeup or high heels or subscribe to, in any
   sense of the word, "women's magazines".   Moreover she was never
   unpopular and always had/has lots of friends, though it's true that
   in school she never hung out with the cheerleading squad.

   Sexism and sexual harrassment, and discrimination against women
   are genuine problems in our society.   But given that these problems
   are bad enough as it is, there's no sense in otherwise intelligent
   women deliberately buying-into, internalizing, adopting, or actively
   promoting values and behaviors designed to further denigrate women!
   Women are the economic motive force of the whole fashion/cosmetic/
   glitz industry and the women's magazines.  And note that some of
   these magazines have far greater circulation than many of the men's
   magazines feminists decry.   


---peter

   


   
     
   
   
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1730 soc.women:19392 alt.feminism:4236 soc.men:19136