HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mathis@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Don Mathis)
Subject: Re: MIND-CONTROL By ORTHODOX Religions
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:15:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.181217.1412@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>          attend church and Sunday school nearly every week.  Every 
>          Saturday I was forced to WASTE a lot of time memorizing Bible 
>          verses and quotations from Martin Luther, for recitation 
>          during Sunday school.  Most of these memorizations were about 
>          Lutheran DOCTRINE, rather than Christian living.  This is 
>          MIND-CONTROL. 

I agree that one could call making kids memorize lots of rules about
how to live MIND CONTROL, in that a child's model of the world and
reality is going to be shaped by what they're exposed to and made to
internalize.

>               The reason there seems to be little interest so far in 
>          Eckankar, Sant Mat, etc., is because most people have been so 
>          thoroughly BRAINWASHED by orthodox teachings. 

Or, perhaps they've caught on, as you seem to have, that most of these
pre-packaged how-to-live plans are a form of MIND CONTROL, but most
people seem to have lumped Eckankar, Sant Mat, etc, in with them.

>                                       Robert E. McElwaine
>                                       2nd Initiate in Eckankar

Perhaps the problem with which we are all faced in trying to become
free thinkers is not in choosing WHICH prepackaged philosophy to
learn, but how to avoid feeling compelled to follow someone else's
philosphy in the first place.
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Psychology of Consciousness
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:38:43 GMT
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep27.054718.28759@sfu.ca> probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst) writes:

>which escapes me now...  for a good description of the current scientific
>-orthodox view of consciousness, have a look at william g. farthing's (1992)
>book, i think the title is _the study of consciousness_. a bit of a read,
>but pretty well put together.

I haven't read Farthing's book, but here's the citation according
to "telnet melvyl.ucop.edu":

Author:        Farthing, G. William.
Title:         The psychology of consciousness / G. William Farthing. Englewood
                 Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice Hall, c1992.
Description:   xvii, 542 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.

Notes:         Includes bibliographical references and index.

Subjects:      Consciousness.
               Neuropsychology.
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: aaronk@county.lmt.mn.org (Aaron S. Kurland)
Subject: Re: MIND-CONTROL By ORTHODOX Religions
Organization: LaserMaster R&D
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:08:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.181217.1412@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>Path: lmt!brainiac!edgar!kksys.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!zazen!uwec.edu!mcelwre
>From: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu
>Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
>Subject: MIND-CONTROL By ORTHODOX Religions
>Message-ID: <1992Sep29.181217.1412@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
>Date: 30 Sep 92 00:12:17 GMT
>Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
>Lines: 64

[reasoned article about shaking off religions MIND-CONTROL deleted]

No offence to the current views you hold dear, Robert, but it seems to me 
you have just supplanted one evil with another.  What book will you end up 
reading this time that will make you leave your current religion?  Keep 
seeking, don't get stuck!

Aaron
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross."
                                        - Spalding Gray

  My company has not yet accepted my application for Corporate Spokesmodel.

        Mail: aaronk@county.lmt.mn.org       Flames: alt.dev.nul
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: MIND-CONTROL By ORTHODOX Religions
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:05:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Sep29.181217.1412@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

[rant against memorization and religion]

>          During 
>          each of those two years we had to go through a long list of 
>          memorizations (MIND-CONTROL) for the class. 

By this prescription, the only way to avoid "mind-control" is to not
learn anything. But on the other hand, in (way too many) other posts, 
mcelwre has stated repeatedly that we all must learn and love LARSONIAN
PHYSICS or face eternity as brainwashed zombies. 

I guess it really is true: we finally become that which we hate the most.
From: hart@ml.csiro.au (Bill Hart)
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousne
Reply-To: hart@ml.csiro.au
Organization: CSIRO Division of Oceanography
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:12:42 GMT

In article 24533@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu, rkennawa@nyx.cs.du.edu (Richard Kennaway) writes:
> Something I find most curious about Jaynes' book is that he never once
> mentions Buddhism, although Buddhism began at about the time when he
> claims that consciousness did (well, give or take a few centuries).
> In my more pessimistic moments, I sometimes wonder if what the Buddha
> discovered was merely our modern, everyday consciousness, and that the
> Zen notion that we are all already enlightened is true is a rather
> more literal sense than the followers of Zen intend.
> 
I must admit I haven't read the book, but I would hardly call our everyday
consciousness (certainly mine anyway, and judging by the behaviour of the
masses, most others) enlightened. Those few brief periods of enlightenment
I have experienced, are enough to convince me that there is more to life
than worrying about the ten thousand inanities that generally occupy our
minds.

I've always thought it was the reverse, the seperation of identity from the
surroundings, or the beginnings of consciousness, and the subsequent 
fragmentation and isolation, make the state of one-ness very attractive
indeed. (Imagine living in the garden of eden and waking up one morning,
with the horrible needling thought ... they are different from me, I am
seperate from this ... enough to give you the angst to go out and breed
like buggery to take over the world ;-> ) All religons seem to have similar
sorts of myths about this time (although they differ in the interpretation),
and even in the gnostic gospels we are told that heaven is already upon
the earth, and we just can't see it.

There's no going back to a state of innocence, but surely we can learn to
escape at will from this crazed patterning of assumptions, distinctions and
seperations that we make about the world, and stop us from ever really
seeing it. 

Don't spend too long in front of the computer, you'll start to believe it's
real. Go outside and shit on the lawn occassionally.

---
Bill Hart	CSIRO Division of Oceanography		hart@ocean.ml.csiro.au

Xref: sparky alt.os.linux:2662 comp.os.linux:12600
From: janl@ifi.uio.no (Jan Nicolai Langfeldt)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Where to get SCSI distribution?
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:29:55 GMT
Organization: Folkeaksjonen for (tungt) eple cider p} Inf. stua
Originator: janl@bera.ifi.uio.no


In article <1992Oct5.211602.2152@news.columbia.edu>, liggio@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vincent J. Liggio) writes:
> I have an Adaptec 1522B SCSI-2 adapter, and I have been unable to find the

aha1522 is not supported by linux. aha1542 is...

> SCSI distribution of linux so I can install it on my machine.  Is it

SCSI is in the standard distributions now.

Nicolai
-- 
Nicolai Langfeldt, "Bugs made while you wait"             
Internet: janl@ifi.uio.no
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux
From: liggio@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vincent J. Liggio)
Subject: Where to get SCSI distribution?
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:16:02 GMT

I have an Adaptec 1522B SCSI-2 adapter, and I have been unable to find the
SCSI distribution of linux so I can install it on my machine.  Is it
available (it said in the docs to look for the scsi distribution, but it
had no name, nor site listed for it), and if so where and under what name.
Please email...  Thanks.

Vince

Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: gregg@dixie.com (Victor Scott Gregg)
Subject: Single/Multisession Photo CD
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 00:55:55 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

I have read that NO CD-ROM players are fully Photo-CD compatible,
and that the ones currently on the market are only single-session.

I also read that the Apple 300i will be/or is fully Photo-CD
compatible with support for multi-session discs.

Does anyone KNOW if there are any multi-session ready drives on the
market and/or is the 300i multi-session and at what price.

Thanks in advance for any informed oppinions on this question.


Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: dimento@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian Moskal)
Subject: Address of 'NESE CD-ROM' publisher?
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:14:46 GMT

TO: alt.cdrom
DATE: 10/04/92
SUB: Address of NESE CD-ROM publisher

Hello,

I have recently heard of a title called 'NESE CD-ROM'; The National, 
Economic, Social And Environmental Data Bank. I was only provided
with a phone# but since I am living in Germany, I'd really appreciate
if someone could forward the address or fax# of the publisher!

Any pointers and replies are highly appreciated ...

Thank you,
-- Chris
--
---==*#  Christian Moskal, Hollaenderstr. 73, 1000 Berlin 51, Germany  #*==---
---==*#     email: dimento@cs.tu-berlin.de,  Tel. +49 30 451- 4692     #*==---
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: chinc@ecf.toronto.edu (CHIN CHIEN TING)
Subject: Re: Need tech. specs for Soundblaster Pro CD-ROM drive
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:16:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.162344.13580@news.Hawaii.Edu> ycheung@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Yat Lok L. Cheung) writes:
>In article <BvExwD.87z@ecf.toronto.edu> chinc@ecf.toronto.edu (CHIN CHIEN TING) writes:
>>
>>Interface: stripped down SCSI
>
>	Would it work if I use the drive w/ a standard SCSI card ? 

Nope, it's designed to work with the SoundBlaster Pro only. Perhaps a simple
circuit board could do the interfacing, but why?

>>Front panel vol control.
>>
>	Is there a headphone jack on the front panel ? 

Yep. In fact, when you play audio CD on the drive, you can use both the
front panel jack and the SBP sound output. Q: Does this take CPU time?


-- 
CHIN, Chien Ting 
Dept of Physics
University of Toronto                                  \ /
------------------------------------------------------- * <
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: SERTEL@DGOGWDG1.BITNET (suitbert ertel)
Subject: population, sportsmen
Reply-To: suitbert ertel <SERTEL@DGOGWDG1.bitnet>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:47:33 GMT

For an extensive statistical study on urban/rural descent of
famous men and women in Western cultures (N=15,000) I need two
databases preferably on CD-ROM (but not necessarily)

(1) providing quick access to POPULATION NUMBERS
    for CITIES/TOWNS from European and North American countries.
    I would like to enter, say,  Charlottesville, VA, on the keyboard
    and get the population number of that city on the screen, or
    even better, by a key-stroke, have this information added to
    an ASCII-file .

(2) providing quick access to names, nationalities,
    birth dates, successes of sports champions, all possible
    fields of international competition (biographical
    dictionary specialized for sportsmen and women).

Has anyone seen CD-ROMs that might satisfy my needs?

Suitbert Ertel

    
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: bwilliam@iat.holonet.net (Bill Williams)
Subject: Re: Version Number in ISO Formatted CDROM (sorry, long) (fwd)
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:49:37 GMT

>> "Should I include version numbers or not?"

No do not include them. By default the ";1" is annoying and ugly if all
files on the disk, or in a directory are ";1" and besides THE
SPECIFICATION DOES NOT SAY THEY ARE MANDATORY to press into the ISO9660.

I will not include than if I even master anything sow any defective
ISO9660 implementators better beware.

Bill Williams
From: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM (Gess Shankar)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: DIR on a CD-ROM
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:37:37 GMT
Organization: Knowledge Exchange, GA, US of A

patel@mwunix (Anup C. Patel) writes:

> Here's my situation.  I have a Apple CD-ROM (basically a Sony mechanism),    
> connected to an Adaptec 1542 SCSI interface, and using the ASPI4DOS.SYS and
> ASWCDSNY.SYS drivers.
> 
> When I initially insert a CD in the reader and do a DIR, the CD directory is
> correct.  However if I eject the CD and replace it with a totally different
> CD, the file directory that is diplayed is the same as the first CD.
> 
> This problem is corrected if I do the following.    
> 1. Eject the second CD.
> 2. Do a DIR without a CD in the reader.
>    At this time I get a 'CDR101: Not ready reading drive D' error.
> 3. I insert the second CD, and press 'R'etry.
> 4. The correct file directory appears.
> 
> So the questions is, why is this happening?  My older Hitachi drive did not d
> this - it worked flawlessly.

Looks like that Media Change detection is not working with the driver you
are using. Even though you have changed the disc, when mscdex queries
the driver, it is probably getting 'No change'. So MSCDEX spits out the
directory from its buffers without even reading the drive. Situation gets
corrected where there is no disc and you access the drive.

As to why Media Change detection won't work in this set-up, I have no
idea.

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!knex!gess|<><>|
From: stevek@gobi.UUCP (Stephen Kogge)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Pioneer DRM600 & Sun - DRIVERS UNNECESSARY
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:04:28 GMT
Organization: Underwater Imaging

In article <OTTO.92Sep29134811@tukki.jyu.fi> otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes:
>In article <19vbiiINNfal@huon.itd.adelaide.edu.au> dclunie@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au (David Clunie) writes:
>   Now I ask you what extra functionality does the $500 driver from
>   Young Minds or Tracer Technologies or whoever offer above this
>   freebie from sun ? So far I have not been able to find out.
>
>My guess is audio play support.  It seems there is no real standard for
>this and all manufacturer's drives need a different control program.

	Remember that the DRM600 has 6 platters and the present Sun driver
supports only logical unit 0,units (platters) 1 thru 5 are properly
supported by the Tracer Tech driver. You need to be sure to buy the correct
ROMS (512 byte sector) to be able to boot and use platter 0. One of
Sun's biggest mistakes was not following the 2k block size standard for
CD ROM.
	I believe the DRM600 has no SCSI volume control. All the audio
fluf is optional on CD ROM drives. The driver I have been working on for
a Hitachi drive may someday support all 4 audio tracks. And the SCSI
commands for audio are special for each drive type.

	Steve Kogge
	stevek@uimage.com
From: reiling@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: CD-ROM Audio on RS/6000
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:11:25 GMT
Reply-To: reiling@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center

I am looking for a utility to play audio CDs on my RS/6000 running AIX 3.2.
I'm not clear if that capability is included with the AIX OS or if I need
an add-on UNIX program. There's no help in INFO Explorer regarding audio
so I suspect its an extra option for IBM. 

David Reiling
From: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: The Bible Library
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:16:37 GMT
Reply-To: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook)
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <tnhznnp@rpi.edu> gilem@aix.rpi.edu (Michael R. Gile) writes:
>I have seen this CD advertised in numerous places, but none
>of the mail order houses know anything about it, even if they
>sell it.  Has anyone seen/used this disc, or know who makes
>it so that I can get detailed info on it?  Thanks

I would try my local chain-type Christian Bookstore.  Some place like 
Zondervan's.  I know my book store has quite a bit of computer Bible stuff.

--
Noel Estabrook          |       Let us not merely do that which is our
noel@crs.cl.msu.edu   __|__	RIGHT, rather, let us desire to do that
Educational Technology  |	which IS right - Me
Michigan State Univ.    |				Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: sgil@netcom.com (Steve Gilbert)
Subject: Sony U.S. Technical Support Number
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:46:22 GMT


Could anyone with a Sony CD-ROM drive please mail me their U.S. tech
support phone number?

Thanks.
--
Steve Gilbert					(sgil@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: SK@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU (Sanjay Kapur)
Subject: Re: ISO 9660 and VAX VMS
Reply-To: Sanjay Kapur <SK@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:02:43 GMT

On Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:27:00 PST <RLW@SHCC> said:
>Tom Lathrop (tgl@ssd.kodak.com) writes:
>
>Which is VERY IRONIC since I cannot get ISO 9660 support directly from
>DEC on their CD-ROM product. Although they say they are working on it, it
>will probably cost us more hundreds of dollars for the driver once it is
>released.
>
>Rich Watson
>Systems Manager
>Shriners Hospital Research Unit
>Portland, OR

You need something called F11CD and VMS version  5.5 or above.

F11CD license is included in the VMS license so it does not cost anything
except media.  If you have the VMS consolidated distribution for September 1992
the software is in CDROM #1 in the [INFOSERV021.KIT] directory.  The
documentation is provided in the release notes which will be installed in
SYS$HELP.

I have succesfully installed the software and used it.

DEC currently distributes VMS and VMS layered products on a set of CDROMs
called the consolidated distribution and currently it consists of seven
CDROMs.  DEC also distributed online documentation for most of these
products on three additional CDROMs.  DEC mails them in the first week of
every other month to those who subscribe to the distribution.  The yearly
combined subscription (totalling more than 60 CDROMs) is about $2000.  This
does NOT include the license to install or run the software but those with
a VMS license can view the software throught the BOOKREADER software
and the BOOKBROWSER license.  The BOOKBROWSER license key is on the
documentation CDROMs.

  Sanjay Kapur                        |Internet:    Sanjay.Kapur@sunysb.edu
  Systems Staff, Computing Services,  |Bitnet:      SKAPUR@USB
  State University of New York,       |SPAN/HEPnet: 44132::SKAPUR
  Stony Brook, NY 11794-2400          |Phone:(516)632-8029, FAX:(516)632-8046
From: kirk.jensen@spacebbs.com (Kirk Jensen)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Need tech. specs for Soun
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:16:00 GMT
Reply-To: kirk.jensen@spacebbs.com (Kirk Jensen)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193

ED>Can anyone give me the technical specs of the CD-ROM drive that
ED>comes with the Soundblaster Pro CD-ROM bundle?

It is a Matsushita (Panasonic) drive, around 400ms access and 150kb
transfer rate. Somewhat slow and unreliable, from all accounts.
---
 . KingQWK 1.05 # 141 .
From: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM (Gess Shankar)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Mitsumi's Address
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:58:07 GMT
Organization: Knowledge Exchange, GA, US of A

mad@motatl.UUCP (Mark Davidson) writes:

> 
> I am looking for an address or phone number for the US headquarters for Mitsu
> If they have a BBS, that would be useful as well. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> -- 

The US HQ, I believe, is in NY. Phone (516)752-7730. The Mitsumi office
dealing with the SouthEast is at Dallas. (214) 550-7300.

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!knex!gess|<><>|
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: zzfolm@ACC.WUACC.EDU ("", folmsbee mark)
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: "(folmsbee mark)" <zzfolm@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:57:52 GMT

Howdy from Topeka (Washburn University) Kansas....

I have several questions regarding Windows 3.1.

We have a cd-network that provides multi-user
access to approximately 10 different vendor's cd products (types?).
Several of them use 3 drives each or so...FYI this is a peer to
peer network (Lantastic) with multiple servers....

I set up a Windows interface on my own pc and plan to migrate it out
to the library staff shortly.  So far, I seem to have migrated the
whole CD network to Windows 3.1 (dos 5.0).  Wait ..to be more
accurate, I should say that everything seems to work fine in a SINGLE
session windows.  Multi-task, and problems crop up....

To get all this to work originally, I had to write batch files that
log into a variety of servers etc.  In some instances, 2 or 3
different systems are on the same server (where experience has shown
them not to interfere with one another)...

Problem...1  Since the batch files include logging off (as well as
on), when we set up multiple windows (multi-task), we on occasion
"destroy" the connection that another "window" needs.  Computer has a
fit.  Ideas?  Approach? Is there a way to use window "program groups"
that bring up program items, after certain network programs have been
executed for the whole group? (managing network log..on..off
etc)...Re-writing the batchfiles is no prob except that simple
removing all "logoff"s will have the effects of eventually having
everybody "logged" into everything.....

The next question will demonstrate my "acute" ignorance of windows I
expect, but...

Problem...2  With ready made windows software (like wordperfect for
windows), is there any way to precede the "ready made" wpwin.exe
program execution with a batch file that gets specialized features of
the network running (drives assigned etc) w/o using the windows macro
feature?  We pretty much mask our users from the network...they just
press buttons....Pif files are easily modified for non-ready made
window software.  Not too happy w/ windows macro approach.....

....am I missing something here?

Thanks for any advice in this area....

Mark Folmsbee
zzfolm@acc.wuacc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: u7911050@cc.nctu.edu.tw (Saturn Paul)
Subject: NEC CDR-84
Organization: National Chiao Tung University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:34:09 GMT

Hello, all.  I'm going to purchase a NEC CDR-84, but I have something 
to worry about. 

      1. NEC CDR-84 uses a SCSI interface. How do I get the driver of 
         it ? ( I use a BusTek 542B, should I ask the dealer of bustek
         or the dealer of CDR-84 for the driver ?)
      
      2. Will it be fully competable for 386PC-based Unix system like
         SCO, 386/ix, or even solaris of SUN in the future ?
 
      3. What's the competibility to other non-386PC machines like
         Sun Sparc, Macintosh, or NeXT ? 

--
                      .---------------------------.
---------------------+---------------------------+------------------------.
|   E-mail address:                   ----                         |\  | \ |                        |
|     u7911050@cc.nctu.edu.tw        '----   ---  --+--  .  .  |,~ | \ |   |
|   E.E. Department of                ----' `---`-  `--  `--`- |   |  \|   |
|   National Chiao Tung University   ==========================|======== / |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom