From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:42:54 GMT

In article <92497@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.064709.5654@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>>Gomulka certainly wanted it, as part of the anti-Semitic campaign of the
>>government.  Historians whom Davidowicz names as working toward this
>>goal include Pilichowski, Walichnowski, Poteranski, and others.  The 
>>Polonization of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising itself was accomplished by
>>one Eugeniusz Duraczynski, who, according to Davidowicz,
[a line or more of mine evidently deleted?!?]
>>She cites: Leon Shapiro's article on Poland in the American Jewish
>>Year Book for 1971, and a 1974 paper by Krzysztof Dunin-Wasowicz.
>>(Apologies for missed diacriticals...)

>>>what silly purposes (after all, Warsaw had its genuine "Polish" uprising
>>>and there is no need to steal glory from anybody). Until you (or someone
>>>else) bring in some details, I will suspect this is a malicious
>>>fabrication.

>>Sorry, no.  She documents the fabrications and distortions of Jewish
>>history in wartime Poland that the official historians created in 1968.

>There is indeed a chapter in her book about revisionism of Polish
>Historians. Problem is, that all the cited historians were paid by
>the communist party to fabricate lies, therefore their "findings"
>were treated as yet another anti-semitic communist propaganda.

Well, of *course* this was all created by the Communist Party.  My
remarks (some of which said exactly that) plus the context of them
(someone who didn't believe that this had happened under *any* conditions)
have been cut up here; I wish you'd edit a little more carefully.
I have no objection to your cutting down my prose -- when I give
documentation, it *does* take up a lot of space -- but the reason
I wrote what I wrote has been obscured here.

Now, as to your "therefore" in the above paragraph, well, I hope 
that's the case.  But remember that the communist party wasn't just 
two or three people, and that some people undoubtedly *did* swallow
the "official" version.  Having lived in Germany for quite a while,
and having visited the GDR on many occasions, I know that "official" 
history was indeed accepted by many.  To be sure, the German and
Polish societies were (and are) quite different, woth respect to
authority, the Party, etc.; but I doubt that the propaganda had
no effect at all.

>On the other hand, some Jewish historians eagerly used testimonies
>of dubious veracity (from communist, who frequently perpetrated antisemitic
>acts), just to support their accusations od the polish society.
>See my comments to Schmul-Krakowski "Unequal victims" 

Indeed.  And many other historians have pointed this out -- some of
them Jewish, too.  Yesterday I was reading the controversies that
Hannah Arendt's book on Eichmann had caused; once one reads something like
this, one cannot possibly hold that there was one unitary Jewish historical
viewpoint, or that there is one today.  

The issue, after all, is not to write Jewish or Polish style history,
but to write *accurate* history.  I don't much care that the people
who wrote that stuff in 1968 were Polish; I care that they were lying.
Jews who fabricate, distort, etc. are equally at fault.  One shouldn't
speak of "Polish death camps" when speaking of Auschwitz, Belzec, etc.,
no matter who one is.      

>>>>causes are the very thing that interests me.

>>>Could you give ONE example of "Aryan legislation of Nazi Germany" (or
>>>anything even remotely similar) that was adopted by the parliament of Poland
>>>in the 30s?

>>Not by the parliament, but, as I have cited before, by professional
>>societies of architects, doctors, and engineers.  On the other hand,
>>many of Poland's political parties were officially anti-Semitic.

>And so were parties in many countries in the world - this doesn't proof
>anything. 

For heaven's sake, Krzyzstof: don't remove the context!  What I said
proves *exactly one* thing: that there *was* institutional anti-Semitism
in Poland in the 1930s, which was all I was claiming.  I was not saying
that Poland was the only place this was happening; nor did I say that
Poland was especially bad.  I was responding to someone who claimed that
there was *no* institutional anti-Semitism, and that a-S in general had
not been on the rise in the 30's in Poland.

(For the record, which other democracy with large numbers of Jews had
several anti-Semitic parties?  Totalitarian Germany and SU are obviously
not comparable.)

>Let me cite Schmul and Krakowski:
>"It should be stressed that Polish liberal groups, as well as the
>Socialist Party, and dissidents from Pilsudski camp, publicly
>condemned both the violence and tactical hypocrisy of the goverment,
>and even demonstrated in protest, in certain instances declaring strikes
>and joining in defensive actions taken by te Jews[...]"
>p21.

Fine.  Does this contradict anything I've said?

>It is true , however that the right wing parties waged an economical
>war against Jews in prewar Poland and achieved quite a success with
>indifference (or silent approval from some members) of the goverment.

That's all I'm saying.  Powerful anti-Semitic parties, not all that
much resistance against them from official corners.

>Again, however some Jewish historians see antisemitism everywhere -
>I read a story (perhaps in Davidowicz's book but I'm not sure) about
>Poles organising cooperatives in countryside to fight Jewish merchants.

Not in Dawidowicz, I don't think.  

>This claim was made, notwithstanding facts about reality of Polish
>countryside at that time. 

Well, let's see the claim first.  

>Usually well balanced Schmul and Krakowski's "Unequal Victims" describes it
>in this way:

>"Paradoxically, the steps taken to improve and further the economy also
>were to the detriment of the Jews. Thus the organisation of the 
>cooperative movement supported by leftist elements as well, removed many
>burdensome intermediary units between the countryside and the cities,
>but at the same time wiped out many Jewish livelihoods" p.13

OK.  Now, who's making the claim?  And on what grounds?

>My point is, that before you make a claim based on some book you read
>try to assess if it's well balanced, scientific and very far from
>propaganda of any kind. I's suggest you read the subchapter "The Historians"
>from Deak's article.

Well, Dawidowicz certainly strieks me as balanced and scientific; she
leaves little out.  (I just checked; she doesn't mention the co-ops.)

Now, as far as being balanced and scientific goes, could you respect
the context of the remarks you comment on just a *little* more? It's
very irritating to have to go over thesame thing a dozen times.  

Roger

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