HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcj6@ace4.sps.mot.com (james berry)
Subject: Cardinals
Organization: APRDL, Motorola Inc., Austin Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:38:51 GMT

>>
>>* It is said their are very few St. Louis Cardinal fans.  
>>*
>>*How many are their out there;  Sign Up  Here!
>>*
>>*1> Dan Carpenter
>>*2> Steve Parvin
>>*3> Mark Laventhal
  *4> Jeff Wayman -- I'm in Colorado!!
   5> James Berry Austin.

There are ALOT of Cardinal fans here in Texas.
When the Cards are in Houston it seems 1/4 of
the fans are wearing red!  Of course sometimes
it doesn't take many to equal 25%:-)  If you
consider the size of the St. Louis area, around
3 million ?, it is amazing they can draw the way
they do.  Does anyone know the attendance last 
year?  No offense to New York, Chicago, or LA.
but St. Louis has to have some of the most loyal 
fans anywhere.   
 

James L. Berry  jcj6@aslan.sps.not.com                 Motorola, Inc.
APRDL Technology Simulation Group                      MS K10
Phone (512)928-7376 Fax (512) 928-6687                 Austin, Texas 78721
"Austin gateway to BUDA"      Remember the Russian People in your Prayers!      
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Regarding Henry
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 00:39:52 GMT

In article <2768@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> hjeat@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Jerry Eaton) writes:

>Butch Henry was the surprise of the Astros camp. He pitched at AA level in '91
>and very effectively this Spring. He's a RHer, 23(?) years old. His last outing
>was against the Braves, going 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R. If he struggles early, Jeff
>Juden and Brian Williams look like the most likely callups from Tuscon.

Actually, Henry is a lefty, and that is a main reason why he made the team
and the rotation, as the rotation lacked a lefty.  Also, he pitched for AAA
Tucson last year and had a 4.80 ERA in 27 starts.  That's not bad in the PCL,
but what's bad was that he gave up 192 hits in 153 2/3 innings while not
exhibiting exceptional control (42 walks).

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Charter Member of the Acker-o-phobics Anonymous
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Is there an FTP site for statistics, or a FAQ
Originator: nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 20:15:02 GMT

Well I've been watching the group for a week or so, but I have not seen
a mention of a FAQ, nor was there one posted in the last month to news.answers,
so

Is there an FTP site where I can get last years statistics?

Thanks, 

Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dae@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.a.elliott)
Subject: Re: Wait till next year....
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:44:55 GMT

In article <0nsjq#b.wigen@netcom.com> wigen@netcom.com (Patrick L. Wigen) writes:
>	I have never given up on a team so early in the season before.
>But from what I have seen of the Royals so far unless something major
>changes, are in for a long season.

I haven't been this upset with them since 1983, when they kept signing
30-something washed up pitchers to try to bolster the staff.  I'm convinced
that Robinson and McRae do not have a clue when it comes to personnel moves.


- Individual positives from the Oakland series deleted -

>	The things I didn't like: The Royals bullpen is a disgrace.
>Aquino and Heaton both did well but everybody else was terrible.

I don't think Aquino would qualify as doing well.  Actually, the pen (and
pitching in general) are probably going to be OK for the long haul.
Montgomery, Aquino, Magnante, Johnston, and Heaton is an acceptable bullpen.
The starters have a few more questions, but there is enough depth on the
staff to be able to keep 5 decent guys in the rotation all season.


>Shortstop and @nd base look real week. Howard and Shumpert both had
>trouble with easy plays and not one double play chance was completed.

They are real weak, but not necessarily on defense.  There has never been a
team I can remember that won with terrible offensive players at both middle
infield positions.  Some great teams have gotten away with 1 lousy hitter -
Belanger, Maxville, and Oyler all played on championship teams.  The Royals
even won with Onix Concepcion and Buddy Biancalana.  But, those teams had
some real sticks in the lineup, and a decent hitter at second base.  The
1992 Royals do not.

>I think Brett
>should batting 3rd or 4th.

Maybe.  If he wasn't George Brett, though, he probably would have hit his
way off the team last year.

>In one game Mcrae Sr. put Eisenriech in
>left field and moved Miller to second and had Wilkerson to short. The
>defense up the middle seemed to me to be remarkably improved. 

I doubt that this would be a better defensive alignment day in and day out.
But even Eisenriech would be a huge improvement over Shumpert or Howard in
the lineup.

It's going to be a long season.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Toronto, Boston, and New York
woofing.


Dave Elliott
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Fettucini Griffin
Date: 12 Apr 92 12:40:37 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr12.084919.12945@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ( ) writes:
>>Now here's an interesting stat:
>
>>Toronto gets rid of Griffin after the 1984 season:
>>	In 1985, they win their first divisional title.
>
>>Oakland gets rid of Griffin after the 1987 season:
>>	In 1988, they make the World Series for the first time in 14 years.
>
>Yeah Los Angeles picked him up...they had a good year in 88 didn't they???

Somehow I think it was *despite* the fact that Griffin hit .199/1/27 and
played poor defense, not because of it.

>>Los Angeles gets rid of Griffin after the 1991 season:
>
>If the pattern follows - TORONTO is gonna have a good year eh?  Toronto
>over LA 4-1 in world series...

How did Oakland do in 1985?  Toronto in '84?  
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: TRADE RUMOR:  Mariners/Brewers
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:36:08 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr09.032045.157812@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ANTHONY MICHAEL RUTCH) writes:
>Report of the local newspaper in the Lehigh Valley has reported that Seattle
>catcher Dale Valle is going to the Brewers for 6 foot 5 inch David Rossing.
>Rossing, in AA ball, is expected to be possibly with the team by September.
>Last year, he hit 29 HR"s and 95 RBI's and batted .316.  Baseball magazine has
>reported him to be one of the top prospects of the rookie crop this year.
>-- 
>               TONY, TONY, TONY
>               BROADHEAD 312
>               758-1378

Hello baseball netters.  I just want to warn everyone.  I have not seen this
idiot post to r.s.b.b. yet, but i have seen him post to the football newsgroup.
He just posts hoax trades (the Lehigh people are the joke of the newsgroup).
Think about it brewers fans - why trade a top prospect for a .150 hitting
catcher?  So let's not see a million posts saying how this could not be
so - just ignore this guy.

By the way, his rumor on r.s.f.b. was Bubby Brister for Jeff George and
Bill Brooks.  Hell, you can know almost nothing about football and
realize that Brister might bring 2 dogs and a coke bottle, but that is it.

--dave


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Cubs Win! Cubs Win! Cubs Win!
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:26:12 GMT

In article <kuid2vINNii5@aludra.usc.edu> dittrich@aludra.usc.edu (Matt Dittrich) writes:
>Seems to me he was touted as a HR man when he first came up to the majors.
>I think he hit quite a few HR's in the minors.  
>
>Stats, anyone?

Grace hit 15 homers in 465 ABs at Peoria in the Midwest League (A), 17
homers in 453 ABs at Pittsfield of the Eastern League (AA), 0 homers in 67
ABs for Iowa of the American Association (AAA) while he learned how to
spell arbitration, then came up to the bigs.  

I don't remember if he was touted as a power hitter, but I do remember that
when the Cubs traded Rafael Palmeiro and kept Grace, they complained about
Palmeiro's lack of power.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Offense/Defense: 50-50 split?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:23:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.204914.29689@colorado.edu> franjion@news.colorado.edu (John Franjione) writes:
>At various times on this newsgroup, I've often read that offense and
>defense are equally important, since every run which is scored is also
>a run given up.  However, I have begun to question the validity of
>this 50/50 split.

So did I, at one point.

It's *not* true that offense and defense are equally important *because*
every run scored is a run allowed.  Consider the following hypothetical
situation, which we'll call T-Ball Homerun Derby.  In T-Ball Homerun Derby,
each side hits off a tee, and you either hit it over the fence or you make
an out.  Other than that (:-), the rules are the same as baseball.  In
T-Ball Homerun Derby, every run scored is a run allowed, but it's obvious
that offense and defense are *not* equally important, since defense is
non-existent. 

>Now, in softball, a run scored is also a run allowed; however, I don't
>think that offense and defense are equally important.  It's probably
>about 75/25 or higher.  So why should it be 50/50 in baseball?

Good question; it doesn't *have* to be 50/50.  I don't believe (though I
have no data) that it is in slow-pitch softball and I don't believe it is
in fast-pitch softball. 

>Another thing which got me thinking is the fact that pitcher
>performance (e.g. ERA, or opponents OBA or SLG, but NOT wins) is not as
>predictable from year to year as batting performance is.  If defense
>were more in control, I'd expect pitchers to be more predictable.
>
>How can this be measured?  How can the exact split be determined, if
>at all?

When we raised this question a few years ago, what we did was to look at
the variance in runs scored and runs allowed for teams since the turn of
the century.  Our thinking was that if the variance in runs allowed, for
example, were higher, that then runs allowed would have a bigger impact on
distinguishing good teams from bad, and would therefore be more important.
We expected to see a difference in the variances of the two.

We didn't.  The variance in runs scored and runs allowed was virtually the
same.  That's a big part of why I think baseball really is 50% offense and
50% defense.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Subject: Re: blue jays vs. red sox
Reply-To: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:23:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.834.30976@dosgate> "stephen dawson" <stephen.dawson@canrem.com> writes:
>Nelson Lu writes
>
>NL>Boy, 1 win, and you obnoxious Blue Jays fan sounds if you have the division
>NL>knocked down.  I remember the A's fans from last year.  Guess what happened...
>
>Can we start to gloat after 6 wins?

How about now that our boys in blue are 8 and 1.  Ready for a Sox
sweep this weekend.  Get the brooms ready.  Living in Red Sox country
and being a Jays fan... this should be great.
>
>

-- 
 Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
 (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
 Go BLUE JAYS  8-1    Mop up the Yanks, bring on the Slop Sox.
 CANADIENS:  First Round  vs. Hartford Whalers... give us a real team!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: More Glavine and Martinez
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:27:11 EDT

     To those who responded to my use of IP/RA to compare the
value of Glavine and Martinez, I agree that it has the problem
that it assumes a direct relationship between RA and rate of
performance (2.00 RA twice as good as 4.00 RA, for example), which
is not necessarily true, and that it assumes there is no such
thing as a negative rate of performance.  However, some of the
suggestions on how the pitchers should be compared have their
problems as well:
     1. Someone questioned why unearned runs count the same as
earned runs.  I say to this that some pitchers have consistently
allowed more unearned runs than others; this should be counted
against them.  Most sabermetricians have problems with errors
as well, and so RA is probably a better indicator of performance
than ERA.
     2. It was suggested that pitchers' RA be compared to league
average starter RA to determine rate of performance.  I don't see
why only starters should be considered -- an inning pitched by a
reliever is as important as as inning pitched by a starter.
     3. I have a big problem with using league average as the
zero point and not replacement level.  The league average RA last
year in the NL was 4.12, and using the formula IP(NL RA - RA)/9
(Runs Prevented above League Average) Martinez does come out ahead,
31.57 to 29.85.  But I believe the correct formula for determining
a pitcher's value is IP(replacement level RA - RA)/9.  The problem
of course is determining replacement level.  I think this is an
attackable problem, but for the time being note that if the replace-
ment level RA is 4.74 Glavine and Martinez come out even, if it is
lower Martinez comes out ahead, and if it is higher Glavine comes
out ahead.  I sure as hell doubt that a replacement level NL pitcher
would have an RA as low as 4.74, so *in all likelihood* Glavine
beats Martinez on this one.
     (One more point: with park adjustments Glavine probably has a
better RA anyway so this is really a theoretical argument assuming
they pitched in the same home park.  Glavine clearly wins with park
adjustments; my point is he wins without them.)
 
Jeff Caveney
From: APUCORLE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Siberia's Southpaw
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:32:56 GMT


Did you think their only assets were nuclear secrets?

Meet Siberian southpaw Rudolf Razhigaev, 23, the first Russian
to play pro baseball in America.  The California Angels will
pay him a $1500 bonus and $850 a month to pitch for their
lowest-tier minor-league team in Arizona this summer.

Razhigaev, who lives in a three-room Moscow apartment with his
wife, baby, and in-laws, also got an offer from Topps baseball
cards.  The bid: $5.  "They offered me a check, but I said
I preferred the cash," he says.

+========================+=====================================+
| Phil Corless           | Bitnet: APUCORLE@IDBSU              |
| Boise State University | Internet: APUCORLE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU  |
+========================+=====================================+
|          You've got to accentuate the positive               |
|          Eliminate the negative                              |
|          Latch on to the affirmative                         |
|          Don't mess with Mr. In-Between!                     |
+==============================================================+
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Galaraga - Gone (5-6wks)
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:40:29 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Apr8.175926.16223@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) writes:
>The way I read it in the paper this AM, Pedro at 1B, Jordan in LF, and
>Osborn joins the pitching staff.   At this point Tim Jones is a much
>better hitter than Alicea off the bench.  With the 1990 season, the same
>could be said of Thompson vs. Jordan (although I know nothing of
>Jordan).  Thompson probably is more veratile at any of the OF positions
>especially at Busch.  

I inadvertently typed in Thompson in LF too, he's of course in right while
Felix is out. When Felix comes back he'll probably platoon in LF with 
whoever is the hottest right hand hitter(among Jordan,Gilkey or Hudler).
I've always like Luis Alicea for some reason, but I agree that Jones seems
to be the better player. Too bad Pena is out, would be the perfect chance
to get him some playing time. 
>I saw the list of pay checks for Cardinal players, and some of the
>starters don't even make $500,000.00, some are lucky at this point if
>they make $250,000.00 and Jordan is now in the majors only because of
>injuries,  Paddle his ass and send the baby home.

That was my initial response when I saw hsi comments in the Sporting News,
but I can't really blame him. Bo and Deion clearly receieve special 
treatment from their teams, and the Cards keep saying that Jordan is a
better baseball player(not athlete) than either of those guys, so
why shouldn't he expect to be paid a little more? Especially since he
does have a pro bowl under his belt in the NFL. I hope he's legit, he
hasn't played a whole lot, they keep advancing him, and he keeps doing
well enough to give hope and then leaves for football.



Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"If this were at all legible, you would see what I'm talking about"

                            Chevy Chase in Fletch 
******************************************************************************





Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Cubs Win! Cubs Win! Cubs Win!
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:11:32 GMT
Organization: A Slightly Warmer Place Than Dave Kirsch's Winter Wonderland

In <kuid2vINNii5@aludra.usc.edu> dittrich@aludra.usc.edu (Matt Dittrich) writes:

>In article <1992Apr8.191043.18634@news.iastate.edu> mjkugel@iastate.edu (Michael J Kugel) writes:
>>
>>For the first time in his career Grace might actually be trying to hit
>>for power as opposed to average.  Time will tell if he'll be successful
>>at it, but he's of to a good start.
>>

>Seems to me he was touted as a HR man when he first came up to the majors.
>I think he hit quite a few HR's in the minors.  

>Stats, anyone?

Well, he did show some power, with 15 homers at A ball and 17 at AA.  Don't
know what type of parks he played in, but those home run totals in the best
home run parks would still indicate much greater power than he's shown in
the majors.

Greg  
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: I Told You Bonilla Was Worth the Money
Keywords: Seriously:  A Truly Different Mets' Team
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:52:56 GMT

In article <1244@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>Don't get to excited Mr. V.  Last night's homers were visually impressive but,
>know that Bonilla has traditionally hit well at Busch Stadium ( Jim Rooker
>said last night that the majority of Bonilla's career hrs were hit in either
>Busch or Wrigley field), he usually starts off strong in April showing lots
>of power and then slumps come early summer, and last but not least my sister
>could have taken the hanging curve ball Deleon served him and driven just as
>far.

More revisionist nonsense.  The statement that the "majority of Bonilla's
career hr's were hit in either Busch or Wrigley" is patently false and
absurd; the majority of Bonilla's career home runs were hit in Three Rivers
Stadium (61 of them, to be exact).  Bonilla has hit somewhat better on the
road than at home over his career, though, and the move to Shea will likely
make that effect more pronounced. 

The statement that Bonilla starts off strong in April is true; Bonilla does
have good April numbers for his career.  His worst month over his career
has been July, when he has hit .256/.334/.418.  His best month over his
career has been August, though, when he has hit .308/.385/.523.  These
numbers are 6 year totals for Bonilla's career.

This silly Bonilla-bashing is ridiculous.  I'll never understand why people
get so offended when a ballplayer chooses to leave their city.  That
Bonilla is now a Met does not lessen my appreciation of him as a ballplayer
one whit; I can hope the Mets lose without having to hate the players on
the team, or make up stuff to put them down.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 3000 hits
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:30:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <8dsFLjm00iUx48NS0a@andrew.cmu.edu> dw1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Henry Willis) writes:
>On ESPN baseball tonight (4/6) they stated that never before had 2
>men achieved the 3000 hit mark in the same season.  Yount and
>Brett may do it this year.  But am I wrong or didn't Yaz and Brock
>get there in 1979??
>
You're right.  Brock was definitely left off the list; I thought I 
saw Yaz, but I might be wrong.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs902159@ariel.yorku.ca (DAVID A LISOGURSKI)
Subject: Re: 1991 Cy Young -- Glavine vs. Martinez
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 04:34:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.232856.7223@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>A better measure is runs better than average.  The average NL RA was 4.12.
>Martinez still comes out ahead on this (he did have a sensational season).
>
>But it's really not proper to ignore that Glavine pitches in one of the
>best hitting parks, and Martinez pitches in one of the best pitchers'
>parks.  On the road, Glavine's ERA was better than Martinez.  Except for
>home runs, the two had quite similar seasons.  One can't conclusively
>say that Martinez was better, and if they weren't going to give it to
>Ryan for his sensational 8-16 season, they're not going to give it to
>Martinez, when Glavine had a season at least as good, *and* won the magic
>twenty.
>-- 
>Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the

Come on......give a Canadian team a break.
We never get anything up here (except Bell's MVP).
Give Martinez the Cy Young cuz they (Dennis & Glavine) were so close,
but Martinez had a PERFECT GAME!!  :-)

--Dave