HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Markku.Savela@tel.vtt.fi (Markku Savela)
Subject: Re: No cars in Oslo? (Was Re: Stockholm Water Festival)
	<1992Aug14.215011.21258@aero.org>
	<1992Aug17.055628.22559@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>
	<1992Aug17.081231.26458@ugle.unit.no>
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:21:09 GMT
Reply-To: savela@tel.vtt.fi (Markku Savela)
Distribution: soc

In article <1992Aug17.081231.26458@ugle.unit.no> jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:

>I think it's a good idea, too. But the problem here in Norway is that
>they don't give us an alternative. They start to charge a fee for

  Yup, they don't give you choice, even if you wanted to avoid Oslo
  coming from G|teborg to other parts of Norway, you have to go trough
  those Oslo toll gates... (at least no alternative that a clueless
  tourist could find).

  The fun part in this is that when you get lost in Oslo and try to
  find your way out, go wrong direction and have to back track, you
  end up paing the toll twice ... oh well... :-)

--msa

ps. Really, the toll doesn't break the budget. One spends more into
    ice cream cone. (I think it was 8 or 12NKR?)
--
Markku Savela (savela@tel.vtt.fi), Technical Research Centre of Finland
Telecommunications Laboratory, Otakaari 7 B, SF-02150 ESPOO, Finland
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Thingvellir
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:20:02 GMT

In article <Bt601D.L7p@well.sf.ca.us> dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood) writes:
>
>I'm reading Njals Saga (Magnus Magnusson/Hermann Palsson translation) and
>wondering:  What kind of a landscape is it where the Althing happens?  Is it
>flat, hilly, rocky, green?  What conspicuous landmarks?

 If memory serves, the original site is a rather rocky, treacherous area
but it has been a while. I think it had a big boulder or so as well. I can
look it up if someone else doesn't know off of the top of their head.

Wassail,
Al Billings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: pem@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin)
Subject: Re: Vikings savages
Organization: Student
	<1992Aug12.225731.18241@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Aug13.161430.1619@corax.udac.uu.se>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:00:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.161430.1619@corax.udac.uu.se> andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:

>Were the runes ever used on paper or similar material (perhaps in
>Dalarna), i.e. written with something like a pen?  If so, did that
>contribute to the development of the glyphs, and how?

No, not to my knowledge, except maybe in Dalarna in the end. With that
branch of runes as the exception the number of runes weren't really
increased, unless you count dotted and undotted runes as different
ones. The need for two different a-runes and two different r-runes
(important differences in the beginning one must presume) disappeared
so they came to be used for different sounds instead, and dots where
introduced to distinguish between u/y, i/e and k/g for instance.
In the beginning of the 17th century, when the use of runes among
common people had almost stopped, the futhark was virtually the same
as it were 800 years earlier, with the minor changes mentioned above.
By then the interest in national history and the ancestors writings
had grown among the higher, educated classes (who of course learned
to read and write the latin alphabet) and attempts to "save" the runes
were made. Johannes Bureus published his "Runa ABC-bok" in 1611, and
they even planned to publish books printed with runes instead of
latin characters. Bureus tried to design a futhark-style suitable for
handwriting with pen and ink, but I don't think it were ever used.

--
 |\/|\/|\/| Per-Erik Martin,
 |  |  |/\| Department of Computer Systems, Uppsala University,
 |/\|  |  | Email: pem@minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: nationalism, Finns, Chinese, etc.
Keywords: none
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:12:21 GMT

In article <etxmow.713782185@garboc34>, etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:
|> 
|> jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> >And to Mats Winberg :
|> 
|> >Yes, I'm willing to let 4 millions Africans into Norway. After all,
|> >letting them live in Norway is better than letting them starve to death
|> >in Africa. Huh ?
|> 
|> >And I am not scared of them completely change the demography of Norway.
|> >Can't see anything wrong in it.
|> 
|>     Tell that to Gro, she didn't seem to have same opinion as you,
|>     when asked by the Swedes to let more Yugoslavs in.
|> 
|>     Mats Winberg
|>     etxmow@tore.ericsson.se
|> 
--


Yes, and I am ashamed of it. But even more of the majority of
politicians (and I regret, the people too), who want to close the
borders even harder, and in addition throw some of the immigrants out
(not the whities - throw out the one's who cannot hide that their
immigrants (black, coloured, asians...). But still they claim they are
no racists.)

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Adopt a rune stone
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:40:31 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Ericsson



    
	
	    
	      Recently, I've heard about a practise that apparently has
	      been around for a while. "Runverket" the swedish board
	      that has responsibility of Sweden's rune stones, are
	      letting people "adopt" a rune stone, which means that
	      they are supposed to care for it, paint it if necessary,
	      and clean it regularly. This is of course an unpaid
	      "honorary" commitment and it has become popular to
	      give this mission as a 50-year present.


	      Mats Winberg
	      etxmow@tore.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Another Finnish Question
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:32:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.130122.26995@dde.dk>, ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
=)hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:
=)
=)>Using the native name is, of course, the politically correct thing to do.  
=)
=)This reminds me of a fact that has puzzled me for a long time. Why
=)do some people insist on saying "Roma" instead of "Rome" and "Beijing"
=)instead of "Peking", but they wouldn't dream of saying "Deutschland"
=)instead of "Germany" or "Espan~a" instead of "Spain".
=)
=)Why is it politically correct to use "Myanmar" rather than "Burma",
=)but OK to refer to "China" instead of "Zhong guo" (spelling?????)?
=)
How dare you ask such a question!?!  Political Correctness is above such
mundane and petty notions as "logic" or "consistency."  If *you* were
Politically Correct, you would accept these things without daring to
question our (constantly changing) manifesto.  After all, the Politically
Correct don't need reason;  we just _know_ we're right.

(For the humor impaired:  No, I'm not Politically Correct.  At most times
I try to be as Politically Erroneous as possible, without offending
anyone but the Politically Correct.)
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Johnson"                              | "                               " |
|  johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |               -- Marcel Marceau   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Disclaimer:  It's just my Tourette's Syndrome acting up again.             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: translation wanted
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:43:54 GMT

In article <3855@keele.keele.ac.uk> csa18@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R.J. Husmo) writes:

   >I know when I was born, but not when I was given my name.

  Ho! This has nothing to do with name days!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Germans drowning in Sweden
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:24:16 GMT

In article <etxmow.713707222@garboc34> etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:
>	    It's happened again: Two young German girls 20 and 16 years
>	    in a camping site, decided to paddle across Lake Vaettern
>	    despite the rough weather. The canoe capsized and both died
>	    in the cold water.
>[rest of story deleted]

As Jim Muchow remarked in another post, this is also an all to common
occurence in Denmark along the North Sea coast in summer time.

Tourists tend to disbelieve (or worse, ignore) the inherent dangers
in some rather innocent looking holiday amusements. I don't think it
is because they are abroad and therefore can behave in a 'touristy'
manner, but rather because it *looks* innocent and undangerous. Besides,
everybody else are doing it, so how can it be dangerous to *me*?

When I go swimming in the North Sea (a seldom occurence) I never go out
more than about 50 meters from the beach, unless I know the area very well.
You will as often as not see some Dutch or German tourist on an inflatable
matress padling *away* from the beach. I have once or twice cautioned them
that such behaviour borders on the insane. Which they promptly ignored.
In the meantime the rescue helicopters were bussing up and down the coast
on more or less permanent patrol ...

At least they now have started to charge for rescue missions necessitated
by the persons own stupidity. Last I heard the cost was around 1/4 million
Danish crowns ...

You also see the same kind of behaviour in the Swiss mountains in the
skiing season, but there the culprits are often Scandinavians. They
refuse to believe that Swiss, who have been skiing their whole life may
be able to do things which a "one-week-a-year"-skier better left untried.

I guess that it is the same thing in countries with jungles, desserts and
the like. You will always find some fool tourist, who will dash headlong
into the place without wondering why the natives tend to stay out of it.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: What is Norden?
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:14:32 GMT


  People sometimes ask here what "the Nordic countries" refers to. Well,
I just heard an interesting bit of news on the radio, about a quiz to
which Swedish school principals have apparently been subjected. 20
of them, according to the report, wanted to include Poland, Holland,
Britain, or Germany among the Nordic countries, so it seems that the
question is tougher than many of have imagined.

  (This was mentioned on the radio in connection with an international
investigation of the reading skills of 8 and 9 year old children
from 30 countries, in which the US did best, followed by Finland and
Sweden.)
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:33:52 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden

[I know, I shouldn't be doing this, but...]

In article <1992Aug19.075440.13306@ugle.unit.no>, jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
> Instead of paying them for unemployment, the society should "buy their
> production capacity", and sell their products. The society can't just
> "get rid of the people", like the businesses do - we have to handle it
> in some way or another. Why not just handle it in the best way for
> both the society and the people ?

Business constitute an integral part of society.  If business give up
on some individuals, part of society implicitely does.  If some other
part of society (say, the government, or a volunteer organization)
starts offering jobs, they are per definition engaging in business.
If they do this in a profitable way, anybody would do the same.  If
they do it in an unprofitable way, they are wasting somebody's money.

I don't buy your reasoning that when one particular business fail to
provide jobs to people, there should be a default business for them to
fall back on, a business that is profitable and charitable at once.

What you are looking for is an insurance policy, where the contributors
are willing to pay the expenses of the unfortunate few, in return for
the same safety being provided to them.  When there is nobody around to
implement these insurance policies (perhaps because they are outlawed
by the government), you can bet that problems will arise.

This issue is not very specific to the Nordic countries, other than us
being often referred to as examples in either a negative or a positive
sense, depending on the speaker's opinion.  Besides, it must be one of
the most protracted debates of the history of human civilization. ;-)

As for immigration, I think two more hands to do labour in general
even out one more mouth to feed.  Who came up with the silly idea
of putting restrictions on where people could go, to begin with?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
From: ericp@netcom.com (Eric Pederson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Looking for Rikard Carlsson Mat-Nat Uppsala
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:04:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

If anyone who reads this list knows the above person at the
above school, could you (or he) send mail to me?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:30:27 GMT

jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
: I agree, capitalism has no other way to define need than ability and
: will to buy.
: 
: But only a blind man can't see people starving today - isn't that a
: need ?
: 
: Fortunately it's not my problem that you don't consider anything else
: than money important.
: 
Let's take Somalia as an example. Helporganisations are trying to help the
starving people there, but they run into problems because of the chaotic state
in Somalia. Do you think the rich countries are ignoring the problems in 
Somalia because they can't get a profit out of it? 
	Could you please tell us more about this new fantastic economic 
system that gives everyone a job and that doesn't have to obey basic laws
of economy? 

--
Sven Wallman, S:t Larsg. 5, 753 11 Uppsala, Sweden, +46 1812 9237
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Another Finnish Question
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:15:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.073613.11887@sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
=)In article <1992Aug13.223221.4798@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, I write:
=)
=)   >I try to be as Politically Erroneous as possible, without offending
=)   >anyone but the Politically Correct.)
=)
=)  Humor? Well, if you say so. But isn't it a bit tired? I mean, whatever
=)the revolting aspects of "political correctness", they are by now, at
=)least on the net, as nothing compared to the self-satisfied chant of
=)"down with political correctness" so boringly heard on all sides.

Hey, it worked!  :->
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Johnson"                              | "                               " |
|  johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |               -- Marcel Marceau   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Disclaimer:  It's just my Tourette's Syndrome acting up again.             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kurt@dna.lth.se (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Re: "Wise words" from the Swedish King
Keywords: Kings and seals 
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:30:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.021102.1107@news.uit.no> sveini@mack.uit.no (Svein-Ivar Lillehaug) writes:
>A couple of years ago when people thought that the seals were too cute
>to be hunted, the swedish king gave the following statement while
>visiting New Zealand:
>
>	"How can Gro Harlem Brundtland manage to govern the Norwegian
>	 people when she is not capable to deal with the problems of
>	 Norwegian sealhunting?"
>
>The same king has now opend his eyes. Earlier this week the sealhunters
>lawyer received a public letter from the king were he appologised for his
>own criticism of the Norwegian sealhunting. He also admited that his
>criticism was based on sources (TV and newspapers - swedish?) which at
>that time all seemed to agree about that fighting against the sealhunting 
>was the most important issue at the environmental agenda.
>
>...... Afterwards he realised that his statement were based on incorrect
>sources.........

Actually, He *only* said that his statement was based upon suspect
sources, he did not apologize.

Nor should he.  <--- my personal view.
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Stockholm Water Festival
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:02:07 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson TX

In article 27301@eua.ericsson.se, euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall) writes:
>>euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>>Juding by other events, e.g. the carnival of Lund, Storsj|yran in \stersund
>>etc: yes.
>But that's in the countryside... 

What? It really upsets me when someone from the (internationally speaking)
small village of Stockholm thinks all other cities in Sweden are "countryside".

>Anyway, this fee must surely be tax deductible?

I didn't know there were any tax deductions left in the tax collector's paradise.

---
Per Harwe       	 	       | Internet: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Ericsson Business Communications, Inc. | UUCP:   uunet!ericsson.com!ebuhwe
Anaheim, CA.			       |
The opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Sami population
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:07:06 GMT

In article <HAAVARDF.92Aug12195806@gluon.uio.no>, haavardf@gluon.uio.no (Haavard Fosseng) writes:
> The sami are culturally distinct from Finns, and have been so for all of
> recorded history. They originally inhabited more or less all of Scandinavia,
> but were pushed aside by people coming in from the south.

Hmm, are you sure of this?  Did they inhabit Denmark too?  I had
the impression they remained mostly in the northern areas, spreading
to Jamtland/Harjedalen/Dalarna (central-western Sweden) only in the
16th century, or thereabout.  What time frame are you referring to?

The time when the relatives of Conan the Barbarian saw the light of
day in Jutland, Denmark, perhaps? (1/2 :-)
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen)
Subject: Re: Origin of "Suomi" (was Re: Another Finnish Question)
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:40:29 GMT

In article <zheng.2@viikki.Helsinki.FI> zheng@viikki.Helsinki.FI (ZHENG HUANQUAN) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.085905.12862@funet.fi> hmj@cs.tut.fi (J{rvinen Hannu-Matti) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug5.105714.14440@husc3.harvard.edu> magliano@husc10.harvard.edu (Marcia Magliano) writes:
>>>
>>>      Another question about, well, the language and the name.
>>>From where does the name Finland  originate?  Why doesn't English
>>>use a name more like Suomi?  Do other languages use a name closer to
>>>the Finnish name for Finland?  Where does the name Suomi originate?
>
>>Several responses have given explanation for the name Finland. 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Hei,
>In English, suomi is called as Finland, because "fin" means end, for 
>example,"fine" is "very good", final and so on, so, finland is meant as a 
>end of land(world)in english, and some Frences also told me that.
>is it right?   

Yes, and Norway is country in nowhere, Faroe Islands are far away, and so on.
These seem all to be equally credible explanations ;-)

-- 
Antti Karttunen       --  $B%"%s%C%F%#!!%+%k%C%H%%%M%s(J  (et{ty|t|n)
karttu@mits.mdata.fi  --  Apatheist, although not particularly proud of it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: Re: Stockholm Water Festival 
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:50:11 GMT

>
>I can't see that there is anything unlawful or even strange about
>temporarily (or even permanently) charging a fee for entrance to
>an area that is publicly owned.  

Well, they did that about a year ago to central Oslo.
It costs you NKr 10 to come into the central city ... if you
want to take a car with you.  :-)

Dave Golber

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic