HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Old CD Player and New CDs
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:38:26 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

omf@pyros.hacks.arizona.edu (Oscar Fowler) writes:
>Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have to check out that possibility,
>however, I think some of my old CD's also push 74 minutes, so I doubt
>that that is the problem.  The 'narrow track width' you mentioned
>sounds more likely - is this really being done?  I thought the CD format
>had a fixed track width...

>Oscar

On my Sony CDP-670 (yes, I know, :-(  ) , I was never able to play
Brain Adam's waking up the neighbors (two copies from different batches)
without skips.

Anyway, I got sick of it (I was almost resigned to tossing the unit) and
decided to open the thing up. WHAT A SHOCKER !  I doubt that this thing
costs more than 50 bucks to build (probably cheaper than that). There is
NO shock mounting anywhere.

It was also the first time that I had seen a laser pickup in action, how
the hell can it read the stuff without skipping?  It wobbles like crazy.

Anyway, I saw this POT near the laser pickup assembly and figured that this
had to be the adjustment to muck around with.  I experimented, too far and
the player couldn't "lock on" to the tracks, too close and the CD would
spin down after trying to read it.

It turns out that an adjustment of about 20 degrees counter-clockwise
fixed the problem!  I can play this CD without any problems now. My player
does make a slightly different noise now when switching tracks, but my
problems appear to have been solved.

Another problem that I had was that somehow, my player had become
ultra-sensitive to shocks (walking around slowly on a carpeted floor would
make it skip). No mucking around with that laser pickup adjustment would
solve the problem.  I fixed that problem by sandwiching it between my
Hi-Fi VCR and AV Receiver. I know the problem is solved, as I have a
drum set (yes!) in the same room and the base drum no longer induces skips.

The funny things you can do without a service manual :-)

-Pascal

-- 
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
    Pascal Gosselin        |     Communications Accessibles Montreal  
    pascal@CAM.ORG         |  A non-profit corporation.  Newsfeeds & More.   
  Apple Support Specialist |  For info: info@CAM.ORG or Voice (514) 923-2102
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:48:52 PST
Organization: Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego, CA

In article <30749@castle.ed.ac.uk>, sss@castle.ed.ac.uk (S S Sturrock) writes:
> In article <1993Jan22.190811.28768@e2big.mko.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>>
>>And DCC requires highly accurate thin-film fixed heads.  These also will always
>>be more expensive than the 4-track heads required for analog cassette
>>mechanisms.  Philips has had great difficulty getting DCC heads to track
>>reliably.
> 
> And the solution they came up with is elegant and simple and solves the
> problem well with just a simple guide mechanism as part of the cassette
> shell design.

I really do not understand why so many apparently-rational people are willing
to defend Sony's and Philips's attempts to foist these less-than-CD-quality 
systems off on the unsuspecting public.  (Without even getting paid for it!)

Yeah, "you can record on MD and its size makes it more convenient for portable
and car use".  Want to bet that it's impossible to squeeze a full 74 minutes,
16 bits/sample/channel, 44.1 kHz, onto a recordable disk the size of an MD?  I
wouldn't.  I'll bet they could do it within another year.  

But they won't, because they really don't want consumers to have a mass-market-
priced digital recording system that can make exact copies of CDs. 

I refuse to support Sony or Philips in these efforts *regardless* of the
technical merits of the systems, regardless of whether they're "good enough",
etc. 

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, or hanrahan@eisner.decus.org  Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce)
Subject: Re: Liquid Cooled Speakers?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:07:46 GMT

In article <136020002@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> tony@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Tony Marriott) writes:
>I have some speakers which claim that the tweeters are "liquid
>cooled". Can anyone out there help me understand what this
>means and how this effects the sound that the speakers
>generate? I assume that this process should somehow make the 
>speakers sound better. Or does it just allow the speakers to
>be more efficient, prolong the life of the speakers, or what?

When done properly, "liquid cooling" consists of filling the magnet gap
with a fluid having ferro-mahnetic properties, usually refered to as
"ferrofluid" (which is a trademark, I believe, of the Ferrofluidics
Corp.). The fluid consists of an oil with very finely divided iron
particles suspended in it. The magnetic field in the gap keeps the iron
particles put, and the various inter-molecualr forces keeps the fluid
(for the most part) with the iron.

The voice coil of the driver is immersed in this fluid and it can provide
several benefits. First the thermal conductivity of the oil is much
greater than that of air, so that heat is cinducted away from the voice
coil more efficienctly. This can be especially helpful for tweeters, whose
voice coils are most often damaged by excessive heat. The oil can also
provide viscous damping, providing some mechanical damping when the voice
coil velocities are high, such as at resonance. This can help control the
low end response of a tweeter. There also might be some beneficial effects
from fluid forces that might help center the voice coil, though I'm a bit
skeptical that they are enough to make a difference. And the presence of
the oil as a lubricant that reduces damage when contact occurs between the
voice coil and the magnet gap certainly can't hurt.

There are some problems, though. The viscosity of the oil changes with
temperature, so that the damping effects are reduced at high temperatures.
The oil can tend to "wick" out of the gap if there are any very narrow
gaps or absorbent materials near by (like the paper cone of a tweeter).
-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
From: mjf9968@rigel.tamu.edu (Pi(3.143832666))
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Audio
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:27:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <24718@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grumpy skeptic) writes...
> 
>Tell you what, let's have a contest. Everyone post their proposal
>for a newsgroup to include Sud, Strain, Yip, and that fellow who


	rec.audio.sony.bose.bose.bose
From: cfortier@genghis.y (Chris Fortier)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Thiele cs2.2 opinions wanted...
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:26:42 GMT
Organization: Borland International, Inc.

In article <1jtatuINNmds@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) writes:

   Hello, my neigbor is buying new speakers, he has narrowed his choice
   down to three:
   1. paradigm studio monitor
   2. vandersteen 2ce
   3. thiele cs2.2

   he's got a great quote on the thiele's ($1950) and asked me
   to post hear for opinions (no pun intended...)
   he can't hear them until they arrive, and he has to order
   them first, meanwhile he's got the other two to think about
   so I'm gathering 'experience' for him.


I have listened to the Thiel CS2.2s and Vandersteen 2Ces.

I found the Thiels somewhat bright in the highs and a little out of control
on the lows. The mids seemed OK.

The Vandersteens, on the other hand are very accurate in the lows and mids.
The bass extension is therefore excellent.  The highs seemed a bit thin
(attributed as accurate by the salesman) but not too bad.  Imaging was decent.

The Vandersteens need banana plug connectors.  I don't remember which type the
Thiels needed.

The Thiels are $1950, the Vandersteens $1420(with necessary spiked stands).

It's hard to tell how speakers will sound until you get them home.  The
best advice is to listen to all three, and judge for yourself.

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.audio

>His friend spoke with the store he bought the speakers and receiver at and
>they told him that the crossover in the JBLs is incompatible with most types
>of Sony 80 watt per channel receivers and that he should get a different
>brand of receiver.  I have never heard of any such thing in my life.  Is it
>possible that Sony receivers are just junk?  My STR-GX7es is capable of
>making my cervin-vega subwoofer knock shelves off of walls.  I seriously 
>doubt that a receiver could be "incompatible" with a speaker.  I thought
>I understood audio quite well, but I am at a loss.  The difference is
>noticeable with the JBL speakers when switching amps, but not with others,
>such as my Polks.     Weird...
>
>Kevin Molander
>klm41661@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
----------
I guess you could say the salesman is right in that "incompatable" means
that the speaker draws lots of current to produce base.  The audio
supermarket brand receivers usually are not able to supply this current
which is why they usually state that they will only work well with
speakers with 8-16 Ohm impedances.  The Sony ES line is usually sold in
more mid to hi-fi stores and is capable of delivering this extra
current.  This is also why they cost twice as much since all an
amplifier really is is voltage gain with the ability to source some
level of output current before distortion reaches a certain level.

On speaker compatability, their impedances are seldom constant.  I think
they are typically 6 Ohms plus or minus two Ohms and some can drop to
one Ohm at certain frequencies (usually the lower freq's).

Anyway, this is why you always need to listen to what you buy all hooked
together at home before you are stuck with not being able to return it.

Kirk out
From: narpet@cs.mcgill.ca (Greg WARD)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Enough w/LP v.s. CD!
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:13:09 GMT
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <199301211433.AA11230@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> whiting@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (claude whiting) writes:
>
>This LP v.s. CD thing seems to come around every couple of months or so and 
>people on both sides flame the heck out of each other with no ground given on 
>either side. Let's stop wasting bandwidth and time on this silly argument. 
>Face it, some people love cd's, others love their lp's. Leave them alone!

And I imagine the majority of us are quite tickled pink at a *good*
sounding LP *or* CD, and get really ticked off at scratchy records and
CD's sloppily mastered from 18th generation tapes by an uncaring
record company.  (Particularly Atlantic Records.  CURSE their North
American releases of Yes, Zeppelin, ELP, Genesis, etc., etc., etc.)  I
do not have a particularly fancy stereo system by any means, or the
ears of a dog, and yet I am still *really* thrilled when I have the
privilege of hearing a great-sounding recording.  And really ticked
off when the recording (or mastering) sucks.

	Greg Ward (narpet@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca)
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Loud Music, Noise cancelation systems?
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:54:01 PST
Organization: Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego, CA

In article <1993Jan25.214608.15302@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
> In article <C1Dtp8.65u@world.std.com> DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce) writes:
>>Cancel it at the source. Don't bother with DSP. Use a pair of wire cutters
>>instead. It's cheaper. Even selling your house and moving is cheaper.
> 
> Well, that all depends--if, as in an example given in a previous message,
> the source happens to be a particularly dull professor, using wire cutters
> to cancel him, while often very effective, is probably illegal in most 
> states and in some cases might even affect your grade....

If the professor is indeed a "him", using the wire cutters probably won't 
cancel the sound entirely.  Might make it higher in pitch, though.  

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, or hanrahan@eisner.decus.org  Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: THX w/o THX equipment?
Keywords: THX, theater
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:03:09 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <C16vAK.J3A@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rdw56612@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rick Waller) writes:
>I am interested in putting together a home theater.  I would like to use
>professional JBL speakers and professional amplifiers (possibly Crest Audio).
>I have seen a couple systems done with this exact configuration in a
>magazine.  I was wondering if it was possible to achieve THX specifications
>using this non-THX equipment. 

"THX Certified" equipment is high quality equipment that has been
tested by Ton Holman or his Lab, etc.

I believe that it is possible to achieve the THX specifications with
pro qua;ity equipment as that is the equipment that is really THX.

>I realize that in order to make a true
>THX home theater, you have to use THX certified equipment and have a THX
>certified installer tune it to the proper setting.  But do you think a THX
>installer would be willing to tune the system I have in mind to as-close-as-
>possible THX standards.  Possibly using equilizers and else to achieve the
>result.  I guess I'm asking if THX standards are possible without THX 
>equipment and if an installer would be willing to tune it to THX.

A THX certified system is much more than just using the THX certified
equipment and having a "THX certified installer" (what ever that is!)
tweek the equalizer controls.

THX certification requires that the installation (facility) meet
certain acoustical guidelines.  In fact Tom Holman has certified
theaters and they used the original Altec speaker system, replacing
the power amps, adding EQ etc.  The main change was in the acoustics
of the room.

-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I *AM* only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg)
Subject: MD
Organization: CSC, NASA Ames Research Center, NAS Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 00:22:37 GMT
Reply-To: fineberg@nas.nasa.gov
Distribution: na

I finally heard an MD at Fry's on Sunday.  It sounded compressed, 
overprocessed, and awfull. Unfortunately, I don't think that had to do with 
the MD, but rather it was Sony's sampler disc.  Some day I would like to hear 
a MD with real music.

Sam
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Free CD's....was something else.
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:43:23 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <30689@castle.ed.ac.uk> sss@castle.ed.ac.uk (S S Sturrock) writes:
>
>Chesky use 128x oversampling and fourier transform the data down to 44.1KHz
>for CD, sounds very good.  Very hard to find discs that sound good though,
>very easy to find dreadful ones.
>
>
   Speaking of good/bad CD's...

   Have you listened to any of those free CD's that come with the
   British Hi-Fi magazines?  

   Are any of them consistently good, bad, or horrid?

   Or should I just save my money?
Xref: sparky rec.audio:19275 rec.video:16299
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: The Bose flame war
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:02:40 GMT

In article <80693@hydra.gatech.EDU> jnewsome@prism.gatech.EDU (John Newsome) writes:
>
>How did this Bose thing go from one man's personal preference for Bose
>10.2, to how poor the concept of Bose 901's are. Then onto recording
>studio techniques!! 

You need a question mark there.

How did it go from 10.2's to 901's to recording studio technique?  Well,
to put it simply, it went that way because people were interested in
talking about all those things.  We discussed the flaws in Bose's designs,
using 901's as paradigm of those flaws, and then we got into how recordings
are made and why Bose's speakers don't generally cut it from amy scientific
point of view.

>ask the question; "what is the group rec.audio.high-end for"!!! 

For discussing high-end audio, and believe me, Bose is not high-end audio.

>If this man's concept is so flawed, then how does his 901's stay so
>popular, and why do I see them in such a wide range of applications such
>as; in clubs, theatres, concert halls and a lot of other places.  I see
>them more than I see any other speaker listed here in this group.

You have got to be kidding.  You could package sh*t and sell it.
Consumer acceptance has nothing to do with quality.  Just because more
people eat at McDonalds than at Spago doesn't say anything about they
quality of either.  More consumers buy Radio Shack hi-fi's than Bose,
and we needn't speak to the quality of their equipment.  You are
severely deluded if you think that Bose products have market longevity
because they're of a high quality.  I can't think of too many theaters
or concert halls that would use 901's with a straight face.

And as for seeing them in this group more than any other??  What thel 
hell difference does that make?


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP])
Subject: Re: The Bose flame war
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:07:13 GMT

In article <80693@hydra.gatech.EDU>, jnewsome@prism.gatech.EDU (John Newsome) writes:
|> What a minute!!! Just hold on a minute!!!
|> 
|> How did this Bose thing go from one man's personal preference for Bose
|> 10.2, to how poor the concept of Bose 901's are. Then onto recording
|> studio techniques!!  Speaking for myself, this thing has gone now beyond
|> the realms of understanding for the average audiophile, which leads me to
|> ask the question; "what is the group rec.audio.high-end for"!!!  Everybody
|> now has their own opinions on Dr. Amar Bose's intentions in his speaker
|> design, and how flawed his approach is.  How much can one assume without
|> travelling to Mass. and listening to one of his lectures.  That should
|> tell the story.  Everybody has a personal preference as to what sounds good
|> to them, and every highend speaker manufacturer has their own ideas as to
|> how a speaker should be designed to achieve optimum realism in the
|> listening environment.  If this wasn't so, all speakers would sound the
|> same.
|> 
|> If this man's concept is so flawed, then how does his 901's stay so
|> popular, and why do I see them in such a wide range of applications such
|> as; in clubs, theatres, concert halls and a lot of other places.  I see
|> them more than I see any other speaker listed here in this group.
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> John Newsome,III  Center for Rehabilitation Technology
|> Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia 30332-0156
|> Internet:  John.Newsome@arch.gatech.edu


Yea.

Damn Right.

All these people buying 901's know what the hell is going on.

About time somebody said it.

Hmmm...

Most people voted for Clinton....


Hmmm...

More people drive Chevy's than Hondas...


Hmmm...

There are 100 times more VHS VCRs sold than Beta in the U.S.


Hmmm...

Well anyway...  One thing is for sure, these 901's are damn good.



:)


Gary P.



Party On...



WiLD SoCks ParTee in 4 months... 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kensib@cary112.its.rpi.edu (Brian C. Kensing)
Subject: wanted: full range box
Reply-To: kensib@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:35:48 GMT

	I am looking for a full range box preferably with 12's or 15's for an S10 Blazer for around $200.  Send email to kensib@rpi.edu

						Thanks,
						  Brian
Xref: sparky rec.audio:19459 misc.forsale:36465
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: rec.audio,misc.forsale
Subject: Klipsch KG4's Forsale
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:30:10 -0500
Organization: Yale University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

I have a pair of Oak Klipsch KG4's, 1.5 years old, in mint condition,
for sale.  I replaced them with Magnepan's, and now I just want them out
of here (plus I need to pay the credit card).  These speakers are very
efficient (don't need much power), and work great with all types of
music.  specs include: 38-20K+-3dB, 94dB sens, 100/500 watt power
handling.  Asking $300 OBO.
-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: sss@castle.ed.ac.uk (S S Sturrock)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Stabilizer Rings (Was: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?)
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:32:59 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <shetline-230193114328@128.89.19.90> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
>Anyway, it's often the golden-eared with outboard DACs that claim this
>supreme sensitivity. Outboard DACs, by virture of being in a separate box,
>should be well removed from the proximity of the servo motor. By virtue of
>their price, these DACs had better be well-shielded.

I had thought that an external DAC would be immune to the effects of
stabilisers, however you could have knocked me over etc. when I tried 
it with an *OPTICALLY* coupled transport and DAC and the effect was
still very marked.  I expected the effect to be maintained with co-ax
linkage but optical?  Weird.
>
>What's left for the rings to do, other than color-code your disc
>collection?

All tests I have seen about these things have been to see if they reduce
bit errors etc, some have actually increased the BER.  I suspect the place
to look is the same as where differences in various transports occur, the
rise and fall times of the S/PDIF data stream, accuracy here has been shown
to directly effect jitter and perceived sound quality.  Bit errors are
generally correctable anyway so that was never the place to look for reasons
why these things affect the sound.


-- 
Shane Sturrock, Biocomputing Research Unit, Darwin Building, Mayfield Road,
University of Edinburgh, Scotland, Commonwealth of Independent Kingdoms.  :-)

Civilisation is a Haggis Supper with salt and sauce and a bottle of Irn Bru.
Newsgroups: rec.audio