From: alex@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Re: Getting Married: Grounds for Insanity Plea?
Keywords: Off Your Rocker
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:41:48 GMT

In article <wallich.721944713@pepper> wallich@ncd.com (Ken Wallich) writes:
>Well, I've been married for over 9 years, but I won't try to validate
>my decision for the act, nor will I try to defend the 'institution'.

     Why bother?  Those who wish to get married, do.  Anyone who
doesn't, simply doesn't want to, so why force them?  They'll figure
out what they're missing later.

>I do have a few comments as to some 'common misconceptions' about the
>'right' reasons to get married.  BTW, I don't think Alex and I really
>disagree, since at the end of his article he states more 'tolerant'
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^
ME? Tolerant?  The master of the Nuclear Missile flame attack?
*grin*

>beliefs, but since a lot of folks seem to use one of his 'grounds'
>all too often, I wanted to say something about it.
>	
>alex@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
>
>>2)  Marriage shows that you love your SO enough that you are willing
>>    to commit your entire life to them, making the bond between you
>>    that much stronger.
>
>I'd estimate that 50% of the otherwise rational people I know would
>list this as at least one reason for getting married.  It is, of
>course, not true.  The only way you can 'commit' to spend your entire
>life with someone is to actually spend your entire life with someone.
>"Promising" to spend your life with someone is not actually doing it.

>
>A "promise" made with legal and social entanglements may mean more to
>some than one made outside of such an environment, but I believe you
>should always endevour to keep your promises and should not make
>promises that you do not belive you can keep.  For me, it is like the
>Quaker belief of not being 'sworn in' in court, since promising to
>tell the truth there, in a formal ritual, would imply that you do
>not *always* tell the truth.
>
>Saying "I promise to spend the rest of my life with you" is certainly
>not a promise that *I* could make and know I'd be able to keep.  I
>don't think anyone who truly believes in keeping their word as a
>matter of personal honor (or personal value, for those who dislike the
>term 'honor') could make this promise, and intend to keep it.  
>
>The rest of my life is a long time, and I plan to grow a lot during
>that time, as does my spouse.  We may grow in such a way that "the
>bond" between us serves to stunt our growth, or acts as a wire holding
>two branches of a tree together, cutting into the bark, damaging both
>limbs.
>
>What if my spouse doesn't *want* me to spend the rest of my life with
>them?  Do I then have to stick around because I swore to?  I could
>promise to hold this person dear to me, as long as I live, because if
>I am willing to make a commitment to be with someone, the person I am
>with at the time will always be precious.  I may end up really
>disliking the person behind the facade, or the person this person
>becomes, but the person that I know the day I make the promise I will
>always cherish.  I hear those romantics crying 'technicalities!'  he's
>talking about technicalities!  Well, yeah, sort of.  It's also very
>important for me to not promise what I cannot deliver.  I also believe
>in making the *intent* clear, not just phrasing my promises so I can
>get out of them when I find it convienient.  I wasn't raised a laywer
>:-).
>
>
>Promising to work together with someone during good times and bad,
>trying as hard as possible to work through problems and try to work
>and stay together to nurture our mutual growth is something else.
>Sometimes one partner may have to forgo their development to assist
>the other.  This is part of the give-and-take of a real, committed
>relationship.  A 'legal' promise, however, should hold no more
>authority than a 'personal' promise.
>

This I disagree with.  To those of us who think of getting married
some time in the future, we (or at least I and a couple others) feel
the need to express some sort of commitment beyond what our hearts
have already done.  Setting legal and social entanglements aside for
a moment, ask yourself what it *really* means to be married.
     Marriage is not just something some lawyer dreamed up in order
to be able to rip off two people at a time rather than one.  It *is*
a bond, and one I believe important.  A promise to the world, not just
your new spouse that you will always care for them.  Personally, I
feel that if you don't think you will always love a person, you
shouldnt marry them.  (That's my opinion of course, not everyone's.)
But while love is a very strong bond between people, marriage,
to me, has always seemed a strengthening of that bond, in a supreme
effort to make it last forever.  I have a great sense of honor.  But
does a Knight refuse to swear fealty to his Lord, because he thinks
it's already obvious?  Does a priest refuse holy orders, because he 
knows his devotion to God is already obvious?  Some things *do* need 
to be reaffirmed with words.  Some things *have* to be said.
Do you stop telling your spouse that you love him/her, simply because
they alread know?  I don't.  


>>3)  It gives one a personal captive audience for any and all cynicism
>>    which one chooses to spew from that time forward.
>
>Well, I try to use my cat's for that.  They seem to take it better,
>anyway.

Cats reeally don't listen very weel, and they have a tendancy
towards demonstrating boredom with their claws.

>>The Idea behind marraige is that two people are willing to work
>>together, in order to share their lives together with some sort
>>of greater emotional attachment. 
>
>[... more good stuff deleted ...]
>
>So, basically, it sounds like Alex and I actually agree with what a
>'committed relationship' should be.  Alex doesn't say he believes
>marriage to be the only place that such a relationship can florish, 
>so I won't berrate him for that.

Oh thank you so VERY much.  ;)

>
>Gee, I guess this is enough for now.
>
>--
>Ken Wallich
>wallich@ncd.com  
>ken@wallich.com


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