From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Observations from male studentnt
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:17:00 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Hans Johnsen (hans@Software.Mitel.COM) wrote:
: Just thought I'd provide my translation of this article. I HOPE that this
: isn't what he meant, 

Yeah, sure.

: 
: In article <92261.014933TMG111@psuvm.psu.edu> TMG111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
: >
: >     I am a male college student, and for those women who are interested in
: >true equal rights, I would like to make a few observations.  First I would
: >like to say that these are purely observations and that if you take anything
: >as an insult or feel any animosity toward me, I think you should look toward
: >yourself for the real reason. -- or whatever.........
: 
: I am now going to put the blame away from the perpetrator and onto the
: victim, and if you feel insulted then there must be something wrong
: with you. My observations are not tainted by bias, so there is no way
: that you should find them insulting.

How about yours?  Are they tained?  NAAH!
: 
: >     Every day I hear from somehwere in the media something about sexual
: >harassment in the workplace.  I don't condone it in any way and I don't blame
: >women, in general, for it - but... I have seen women who instigate it.  I have
: >had more than one girl tell me that when she went to talk to a teacher about a
: >homework or test grade she wore a 'short skirt' or 'tight sweater' and I've
: >seen girls flirt with TA's for in hopes to gain special grade-like favors.
: >Please don't misinterpret me, I never said that all women do this, but some do
: >and this encourages that the behavior might be reciprocated to other, more inn-
: >ocent people.  So don't put all the blame on us (for those of you who have).
: 
: The problem with sexual harassment is not with the men who do it, it
: is with those bad girls who tease men in order to gain their favor.
: Don't blame men for the crimes they do, blame these terrible women who
: use our prejudices in order to gain favor for themselves.
: 
I guess it is strictly the men's fault that they react the way they do.  The
women don't know they're going to react that way...that's why they wear the
tight skirt and sweater!  For comfort, yes!  That's it!
: 
: >     My mom is a very pretty, and very successful business woman.  I asked her
: >recently if she had had any problems with harassment in any of her (many) jobs
: >and she gave me a definitive 'NO'.  When I asked why I hear so much about it
: >and it seems to be everywhere, she told me she thought that in many (but not
: >all) that it was just a cop-out.  As a manger, she's had to reprimand more than
: >one employee, and knows that similar kinks of excuses are used by her employees
: >to 'pass the blame'.
: 
: My mommy has never been sexually harassed, so it must not happen (my
: mommy is always right). In fact, mommy says that people who report
: sexual harassment are just making up excuses for their own ineptitude.
: By the way, my mom is a woman, so therefore she is wonderfully educated
: on the topic of sexual harassment.

No, but her opinion carries as much weight as your or that of the original
poster...a weight of one.

The poster states that this is just his mother's opinion, but I guess in your
delightfully tolerant and open-to-discussion world one isn't allowed to have
an opinion if it's different than yours.

: >     Also I've asked several managers who they'd hire (all other things being
: >eqaul) given four people of different races and gender.  The common answer is
: >the black woman.  Why? - quotas.  I was, myself, given second preference to
: >a black woman who didn't score as high as me on the basic intelligence exams
: >for employment at a large company (viet-nam vets too, I might add).  I'm not
: >trying to whine, it's just that there are two sides to evry coin.
: 
: I asked a loaded question where it was obvious what answer I wanted to
: some manager friends of mine...

'Xcuse me, wher'd he say they were friends?  Can't you read?

And why is that a loaded question?  It's a perfectly fair question, actually.
And they apparently answered it honestly.

: woman over other people because of quotas (despite the fact that most
: companies do not have quotas). 

REALLY?  What planet have you been living on?  Every company I've
worked at has 'em.  Government agencies especially, though certainly
not exclusively.

I even lost a job to a black woman who
: was obviously less qualified than me since she scored lower on a basic
: intelligence test (I won't tell how I found out her score). Of course
: these tests are completely unbiased, and are definitely the best
: predictor of who would have been better for that job.

If they are not worth much to measure intelligence (and I personally agree
that they're not), then why are they used so much?  And why are they 
"overlooked" by admissions officers at most universities when it comes to
blacks and Hispanics?  No, I'm not making this up.  Many universities admit
that they do this, and say that the years of poverty and life in the ghetto
are the reason they are willing to bend scores for "minority applicants," 
which makes me wonder two things: 1) are Asians classified as minorities?, 
and 2) why don't they bend rules and scores for them?  Could you imagine AA
applying to Asian applicants?

: >     Anyway, those are just my thoughts, I'm sorry if they are incoherent, but
: >it's late, and this is a shitty editor.
: 
: Anyway, this is how I have chosen to deal with losing jobs to mere
: women, and black ones at that. If you find any fault in the reasoning
: of this post it is because it is late. I can reason much better than
: this, honestly. If there are any spelling and grammar errors, they are
: not an indication of low intelligence or incompetence, it is just that
: this editor was obviously designed by a benificiary of affirmative
: action.

My we're hostile.  His grammer was better than yours, and I thought that 
by your own reasoning, objective tests don't really measure intelligence
anyway.  Make up your mind.

: 
: And now in my own words:
: 
: Phewww, I haven't smelled a pile like that since I left the farm. Well
I agree.  That was quite a pile you dumped on us.  Maybe you should write 
"PILE" in your header, just so we know.  BTW, Albert Einstein, Art Buckwald,
Shakespeare, George Washington, among many others, were lousy spellers, and
we all know what intellectual duds they were.


John
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