HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:         loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton)
Subject:      Re: evolutionary error; was: The thought experiment
X-Telephone:  +1 (416) 364-5361 Fax +1 (416) 364-2910 Telex 0622259
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
X-Mail:       1900/2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Canada, M5X 1E3
Date:          9 Nov 92 19:16:00 UT

 cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) says in Message
<cass8806.380.720976791@elan.glassboro.edu>
 -
 - In article <1992Nov4.001457.29522@kurango.cit.gu.edu.au> rfordyce@kurango.c
 - it.gu.edu.au (Rachel Fordyce) writes:
 - >
 - >I thought chimpanzees were vegetarian...
 - >
 - it hardly matters. i think your point (and mine too) is that we are not
 - chimpanzees. hopefully i've evolved a little more than a chimpanzee and can
 - see that killing things is wrong.
 -        though i have noticed that a lot of other people think that
 - _because_ we've evolved it gives us some divine right to go out and kill
 - just about anything that we want.

 This betrays a rather common misunderstanding of evolution; in fact you and
that chimp have 'evolved' about the same amount. Actually the chimp has likely
had more generations than you since your common ancestor, since at least
recently chimp generations are shorter. But it's your common *ancestor* that
you both 'evolved' from, not one from the other. Since that day a few million
years ago when your ancestor and the chimp's ancestor shook hands and said
they'd like to still be friends, you've both gone down different roads, but
it's hard to say which has changed 'more' in the time since. Neither species
seems to have adapted really well (I mean they occupy limited niches), except
for the rather unlikely (and likely to be very brief) excursion into technology
you and your co-humans have flirted with the last few millenia. [Me, I'm
derived from a rather precocious strain of cyanobacteria, so I don't need
organic food to live :-) and I expect to be floating around quite happily after
your kind have completed their messy immolation].

 The notion that humans are the acme of evolution, and everything is more or
less 'evolved' in direct proportion to how close they are to us in the current
cladology is arrogant and rather silly; humans and hominids were probably a
marginal species until they grasped technology, and the indications are that
*that* act of desperation will turn out to have been at best a delaying tactic
with a free light-show towards the end :-(. Not much to brag about, say, to a
horse-shoe crab that's been carrying the family name along happily for 250
million years (or so, didn't look that figure up), seen 'em come and seen 'em
go, and unless we mess up worse than expected will manage to survive the
current mass extinction just like all the rest.

 Have a nice day .../Leigh

--------------------------------------------------------
It's only work if somebody makes you do it    .../Calvin
--------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Clayton                  loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM
    -or-                     loc@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM
From: avi@hawk.imagen.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Meat Substitutes in Veg. Resturants in Bay Area
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:49:53 GMT
Reply-To: avi@hawk.imagen.com
Organization: none

Hi Folks,

Does anybody know of any Veg. (or even non-veg.) Resturants in the 
Bay Area that offer Meat Substitues ?

I don't mean tofu dishes that are available in any chinese resturant
but dishes that are specifically made TO LOOK AND TASTE LIKE MEAT !!!
(usually made from either tofu, wheat, beans or veggies, etc).

I know of "White Lotus" in San Jose. But they don't come even close to
the good old "Peace" resturant (Chinese buddhist) that unfortunately 
went out of business.

Any others ?

Also, any Chinese BUDDHIST resturants in the Bay Area ?

Thanks,
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rtanson@nyx.cs.du.edu (richard tanson)
Subject: add to list
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 07:35:02 GMT


add to list: Richard Tanson, vegetarian for ethical reasons, trying to
become more vegan. Interested in yoga, ayurveda, etc. Follows Sivananda
group, though living beyond purview in Virginia.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: The protein myth
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:31:01 GMT

In article <c_q1wk-@rpi.edu> philhowr@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Bob Philhower) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.114711.436@hellgate.utah.edu> llarsen%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.074508.9068@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>>>
>>>I got this from Michael Traub. This post is somewhat long.
>>
>>It should be noted that this posting is basically a transcription of the
>>"Living Health" seminar given by Tony Robbins. 
>>
>>Loren
>
>I'm suppose that Tony Robbins got the information from Michael Traub
>because He is the Source of all Truth.  Praise be to Traub.
>
>Bob
>
Hey, Bob, Right ON!!!

Church of Traub,wadda ya think?

Leader is absent. All words written by leader are revealed to the
masses at a later date. The religion is touted as the one "true"
religion, the leader, the one "true" leader.

WHere do we trade our brains in so we can blindly follow the teachings
of the netgods?

ANd where do i send the check?

rf
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sao@kurango.cs.oz (Sue Oemcke)
Subject: Re: Status of vegetarianism in Australia - comments
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 05:52:15 GMT
Organization: Flinders University

I've been a vegetarian all my life. I've lived in most states in Australia.
I've found more recently that vegetarians are no longer looked on as strange.
I agree though that is it often a little difficult to get veg meals when one
is in unfamiliar territory.

In the article of Drew's he comments on the lack of veg resturants in Adelaide.
My husband and I often go to Sizzlers, their soup, salad and pasta bar is 
great. There are quite a few vet restuarants in Adelaide, but one has to find
them. Peaceful restuarant in Hindley Street. Rosanas, can't remember exactly 
where that one is. Both have very nice food. There are probably others, but
I haven't been to them.

	Sue
---------------------------------------------------------------------
sao@cs.flinders.edu.au				Phone +61 8 201 3637
Dept of Computer Science			Fax   +61 8 201 3626
Flinders University of South Australia
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:38:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.194916.20513@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>
>Abhay Bulsari informs me 
>
>>You don't count.
>
>
>I see. 
>

You people are really humour impaired.   You have  to  see a smiley or
hear someone laughing before you know that it was supposed to be joke.
I don't use  smileys and expect people to understand a joke as a joke,
which is clearly the case here.  Who am I to decide who counts and who
does not ?

It  takes some tenacity  to survive  on  this newsgroup  and sensitive
people will have a hard time unless they  learn  to ignore things they
don't like or don't understand. 

Abhay

From: dsouza@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Roy D'Souza)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:25:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Is Respect For Nature Enough?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg


 >/ hplred:rec.food.veg / georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) /  5:19 am 
 >Ted, it is unclear why you persist in posting in a vegetarians' newsgroup
 >these lengthy articles on ethics, the environment, animal rights, and
 >whatever.

George, it is unclear why you persist in attacking people like Abhay and Ted 
who frequently post valuable and informative information to RFV.

 >My interest in vegetarianism is restricted to its health benefits and
 >the fact that not eating meat reduces my grocery bill. Other participants
 >feel likewise. At least this was true for the duration of your exile,
 >motivated by your fear of Steve Dyer and others who corrected your
 >misleading medical assertions.

Perhaps a better netnews reader might help you to be more selective about
the notes you choose to read.

 >You will find a more willing audience, if you instead post these articles to:
 >
 >     sci.environment
 >     talk.environment
 >     talk.politics.animals
 >
 >I assume you were unaware these newsgroups exist. Now that you know, you
 >can't plead ignorance.

I assume you are now aware from the responses to your flames that there are
readers on this group who are interested in aspects of vegetarianism beyond
just health. Perhaps it would be best for you to lobby for a new group,
say 'rec.food.veg.health', instead of attempting to police this group.

Roy D'Souza

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: collins@eol.ists.ca (Mike Collins)
Subject: Re: A Quick Breakfast
Organization: Earth Observations Laboratory, ISTS
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 00:03:17 GMT

In article Ted Wayn Altar writes:

>
>             A VERY QUICK AND SIMPLE BREAKFAST
> 
>Here is a very quick breakfast for those on the run...

                      coffee
                 AND PLENTY OF IT!!

(couldn't resist!)

but seriously, I was wondering if someone could point out a 
book of "natural" household remedies. I would like to try
to get off the "shopper drug-mart" syndrome, and cut down on
my use of store-bought things like toothpaste, deodorant, etc.
at the moment i'm just using baking soda for the former - what's
the conventional wisdom on the effectiveness of this?
its my belief that vegetarianism is only part of an larger
lifestyle which tries to "tread lightly" on the earth while
we are here (i think someone else said that). does anyone else
have these concerns?

mjc

-- 
michael collins
institute for space and terrestrial science
toronto, canada M3J 3K1
collins@eol.ists.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: bharath@iti.gov.sg (Bharath Narayanan (CCL))
Subject: Making Vegetable Biriyani
Organization: National Computer Board, Singapore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:55:43 GMT

Could somebody give the details of making 

		VEGETABLE BIRIYANI...Indian Style and Spicy

Thanks
Regards
Bharath Narayanan
bharath@iti.gov.sg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Cravings
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:49:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Nov10.164929.11327
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

From SCIENCE NEWS: Vol. 142, No. 19, November 7, 1992, page 311 (quoted with-
out permission and edited for brevity):

	   A team of neuroscientists led by Sarah F. Leibowitz at Rockefeller
	University in New York City has uncovered evidence in rats that a
	brain protein called galanin dictates the craving for fatty foods.
	Moreover, the group has found that a drug that blocks galanin's
	activity can reduce an animal's appetite for fat.
	   Leibowitz's team found that rats with high natural concentrations
	of galanin in a brain region called the hypothalamus at more lard
	each day and gained more weight over the study period than did rats
	with low galanin concentrations -- despite the fact that both groups
	consumed roughly the same amount of protein and carbohydrate each
	day.  In addition, the researchers observed, the rats with high
	galanin levels almost always began their meals by lapping up lard,
	indicating that they might be trying to satisfy a craving.
	   In a second study reported at the [Society for Neuroscience's
	annual meeting], Leibowitz' group ruled out the possibility that
	the extra galanin might have arisen elsewhere in the rats' bodies
	and then traveled to their brains.  They also found that [rats with
	high galanin concentrations] had reduced concentrations of insulin
	in the blood, indicating that galanin serves as a biochemical link
	between obesity and diabetes.  Her team has not yet determined how
	galanin and insulin interact.
	   Leibowitz [says] that earlier experiments by her group and others
	have shown that rats receiving galanin injections in a specific
	region of their hypothalamus eat much more fat than do control rats
	given galanin injections elsewhere in their brains.  Moreover, she 
	says, the galanin injections make the fat-gobbling rats sluggish,
	reducing their metabolism and leading to weight gain.
	   Leibowitz and her colleagues have recently fouond that an experi-
	mental drug called M40 can slash a rat's fat craving by blocking
	the activity of galanin in its hypothalamus.  In the November/
	December BRAIN RESEARCH, she and Rockefeller colleague Taewan Kim
	report that rats given extra galanin to boost their fat intake
	resume eating normal amounts of fat following injections of M40.



-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: dlc659@huxley.anu.edu.au (Drew L Corrigan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegan quiche recipes?
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:34:30 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.2.12

Hi All,

I've been away on leave so this might already have been covered at some
point, but does anyone have any vegan quiche recipes? We have a number of
vegan and vegetarian cookbooks but the only quiches (in the vegetarian
books) I know of, use eggs. There is a product you can buy Down Under
called "Wheggs" which is eggs minus the yolk, but I doubt very much that
the eggs used to make this come from free-range hens. There are also egg
replacer products but I don't think they'd go well in quiche - they seem
intended mainly for recipes that call for egg as a binding agent.

So anyone got a vegan (and therefore egg-less) quiche recipe?

Thanks,

Drew. (drew@cs.anu.edu.au)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Natural household products (was Re: A Quick Breakfast)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:40:25 GMT

sj@netcom.com (Suzanne Jacobs) writes:

>I e-mailed this to the original poster, but thought others might
>be interested in _Nontoxic, Natural and Earthwise_ by Debra Lynn
>Dadd.  She gives natural, low-cost alternatives to all kinds
>of things.  I eliminated a lot of chemicals in my home because
>of this book.


Yes, this looks much better than what I recommended which admittedly
does use too many harsh chemicals.   Thanks for the reference,
I'll try to find it.

                                         ted

From: gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:02:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg

jnachman@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:

>
>Mr. Bulsari, why do you persist in trying to provide us with a 
>hierarchy of the "most important" posters to this newsgroup? 
>Why do you feel it necessary to categorize all rec.food.veg posters in 
>your unofficial roster? Surely the readers of this newsgroup are able 
>to come to their own conclusions about whom to read most closely, 
>which articles are of most interest to them, and so forth?
>
>Julie Nachman 
>----------

    I don't see what the big deal is.  If you don't like it, ignore it.

    I personally find his list entertaining.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mvms@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (mary.spinazola)
Subject: Re: Congratulations and Metrication
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:15:57 GMT

In article <dlc659.721540032@huxley> dlc659@huxley.anu.edu.au (Drew L Corrigan) writes:
>dmclaren@neumann.une.edu.au (Debra.) writes:
>>There's a problem though... I'd like to know what
>>is a good amount for me to lose a week *in kilograms*
>>I don't understand pounds without a conversion chart
>>which I don't have access to at the moment...
>
>Debra, a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds. Or 1 pound is about 450g. From
>that you should be able to work out how many kilos you need/want to
>lose.
>
>I must say that I am impressed with the way one's body tends to "find
>its own weight" on a (low-fat) vegetarian diet. Both my wife and I have
>lost some weight, and now are steady and feeling quite comfortable at
>our new weights. In contrast, some of our omnivorous friends are constantly
>going through struggles and ups and downs with their weights, and are
>always on this diet or that. We didn't even thinking of "dieting" as
>such - just dropped animal products, cut right back on fat intake, and
>increased our complex carbohydrates - and achieved what our friends
>would like to have but never seem to attain. They cannot or will not
>make the paradigm shift to a little or no animal product diet which is
>a pity (for their sakes I mean).
>
>Drew.

**************************************************************************
I have been a STRICK vegetarian since 1986 and only renetless and enzyme 
free cheese since 1 year.  
 
I eat lots of pasta, potatoes, bread, and beans.   Use little olive
oil or peanut oil.  and...I CANNOT LOSE WEIGHT IN FACT I HAVE
GAINED WEIGHT.

I am a vegetarian because i respect the life of all living beings.

mary spinazola
att!mvgpk!mvms
From: eli@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Elihu Lubkin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Recipie: Basic Grain Soup
Date: 9 Nov 1992 02:20:26 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch) writes:
: I've been making this for a while now.  
: 
: Zeke's Easy Soup
: 
: 1/2 cup green split peas
: 1/2 cup yellow split peas
: 1/2 cup barley
: 1/2 cup lentils
: (anything else your heart desires)

         Cardamom seeds; else my husband will surely say something's
wrong with the soup.
                             Thelma Lubkin

: 
: 1 potato (diced small)
: 8 cups water/veggie stock (I use water and 1 1/2 Knorr veggie bouillon cubes)
: 
: Put everything in a pot and simmer for an hour.
: 
: It's easy and great tasting...
: 
: Zeke
: 
: 
: 
: -- 
:                            zeke@reed.edu 
: "NeXT has made it possible for Tiny Tim to over-extend himself and buy
: a Ferrari for the price of a Hundai and now Tiny Tim is pissed because
: the gas station attendant won't sell him gas for 3 cents a gallon."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray)
Subject: Re: Godhead or Meathead?
Organization: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 22:09:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.135506.17909@alw.nih.gov> don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.001319.2390@unlv.edu> robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray) writes:
>>I know a Chinese person who likes wharf roaches.  Not eating insects
[...]
>Get outta here!  Are you implying that eating roaches is a chinese
>cultural thing?  Because of all the chinese people I know, none eat
>roaches or anyother kind of insects.  In fact, the only insects eaten

Well, I'm not sure how common it is, but I know one person from Hong Kong
who claims to like roaches (prepared in HK).  I beleive it is a special
kind of roach, i.e. not the ones you find running around the house.  I've
eaten lots of stuff prepared by Chinese people that many Americans wouldn't
consider Chinese food, stuff like tripe (cows stomach), jellyfish, pork
uterus, pigs blood boiled and left to turn into solid cubes, chicken/duck
feet, etc.

>So, is it ecologically sound to eat the whole of a plant...even the
>noxious parts, like potato skins?

I love pototo skins, whats wrong with them?

I have nothing against people who make a personal choice not to eat
meat; I have made such a choice myself, but it gets really irritating
when people get self righteous about it...

					--robert
--
robert@cs.unlv.edu
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: American Celebrity Vegetarians
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:42:24 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Nov05.185423.9178@dircon.co.uk>, uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes:
> 
> 
> Could anyone tell me if there's a list of U.S.
> celebrities who are known to be vegetarian?
> 
> If not, could anyone suggest a few likely names.
> I need this info for an article I'm currently writing.
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>                      Peter Cox
> uad1214@dircon.co.uk           CompuServe 100012,221 


A few names:

Jerry Brown, the former Governor of California. He ran for President
this year, losing in the Democratic primaries to Gov. Clinton. 
Reporters talked about him promoting the benefits of tofu and brown
rice in campaign speeches last Spring. 

Candice Berger, the actress who plays Murphy Brown (a wildly popular
tv show about a television newswoman). The character, Murphy Brown, 
is not a vegetarian- she ordered a burger on the show this year. 

Isaac Bashevis Singer (now deceased- died last year)- the winner
of the Nobel Prize for literature. A Jewish writer who lived in New 
York, his stories focus on compassion and respect for the human character.
"Stories for Children" is one of his best. "Love and Exile" has a wonderful
story about when he decided to become a vegetarian on the ship from 
Poland to the United States. 

k.d. lang- The Canadian singer.

Lindsay Wagner- an actress who played the "Bionic Woman" on television. 
Wrote a successful cookbook "High Road to Health" last year. 

There are more, but I can't think of them at the moment. 


-----------------
Mary Howard

"There is only one way to strive for decency, reason, responsibility, 
sincerity, civility, and tolerance, and that is decently, reasonably, 
responsibly, sincerely, civilly, and tolerantly."
     -Vaclav Havel, from "Summer Meditations, 1992.
From: begonias@wam.umd.edu (Jeremy Ritzer)
Subject: Hiking boots ????
Keywords: Need advice on the nonleather kind.....
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:26:40 GMT


I don't think this took last time I sent it, so bear with me if this is
	a repeat for you:

I just found out that my trusty hiking botots can't be resoled, so I'm
	in the market.  Can anyone recommend a pair of nonleather boots
	(i guess eitheer canvas or synthetic) that you swear by?  That
	you san can say are durable, comfortable, reasonably economical,
	and possibly even keep your feet warm and r dry?
Please send me e-mail (begioniaszzzzzzzz)  that's begonias@wam.umd.edu.

Thanks.......

jeremy

begonias@wam.umd.edu


-- 
Popular culture is the art of making do with what the system provides!
                 Jeremy Ritzer          begonias@wam.umd.edu
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:46:06 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Nov11.194916.20513@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>
>Abhay Bulsari informs me 
>
>>You don't count.
>
>
>I see. 
>
>Thank you for confirming what I've suspected about you all along. 
>
>
>Before I go (farewell, cruel vegetarians! :-)), let me thank those 

Barbara (and other omnivores on this newgroup):

I have Bulsari in my permanent kill file, so I have no idea what else is
in his original posting, but speaking for myself, PLEASE DON'T GO!  Over
the years, I've enjoyed your contributions and wonderful recipes.  Please
be aware that Bulsari speaks only for himself, not for me, or, I suspect,
many of the other vegetarians on this group.   As far as I'm concerned,
anyone who is interested in vegetarianism is welcome in this group, no matter
whether they be vegetarian, carnivore or omnivore.
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das

                 "Hatred is not a family value"