HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rthomson@mesa.dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Subject: Re: fracting for amiga?
Reply-To: rthomson@dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 04:49:28 GMT

In article <17u30hINNaha@agate.berkeley.edu>
	shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff) writes:
>Nope, the number of colors is totally flexible.  Xfractint can limit colors
>to any power of two from 2 to 256.

My apologies -- I think I got the limit backwards; I was pretty sure
this was discussed here at some point.  Is it "easy" to up fractint's
max color count from 256?  All my dusty memory tells me at this point
is that I remember some kind of discussion about a "limit" and the
number 256 :-).
						-- Rich
-- 
	Repeal the personal income tax; vote Libertarian in 1992.
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1992 Rich Thomson
UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson			Rich Thomson
Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com	IRC: _Rich_		PEXt Programmer
From: shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Re: Fractint & 64-bit math
Date: 27 Aug 1992 19:41:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: sassafras.berkeley.edu

In article <qycns#l.noring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>I'm a little slow when it comes to these things, but how much more can one
>zoom with 64-bit integer math compared to the current floating point math
>implementation on Fractint 17?

According to my rough calculations, you could zoom further, but not a whole
lot.  Double precision floating point gives you 52 bits of mantissa.
So 64-bit integer math would give you 12 additional bits.  Since 2^10=10^3,
this would give you sightly more than 10^3 more zoom.  If you want really
high zooms, like 10^30, you'll need around 100 bits more than the bits you need
at the top (unzoomed) level (maybe about 10?).

Ken Shirriff				shirriff@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
Disclaimer: 2^10 is not really 10^3, but it's a good enough rule of thumb
for the rough calculations here.

Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Subject: Re: 227-byte Mandelbrot p
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:02:42 GMT

bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler) writes:

>(Actually, that routine didn't really bring anything new to the ballpark
>anyway.  I've been thinking that it would be more useful if it was
>repackaged as a C-callable assembler routine that would calculate 
>the bailout iteration of the Mandelbrot fractal at a single point
>('iter = mandel32(xlong, ylong, maxit)') so that more folks could
>actually get some use out of it.  Waddya think?)

Turbo pascal edible source would be nice ;)
I supose bashing into shape would not be that hard though.

One point I have never quite understood.  Why does fractint _ever_ use
floating point for mandlebrots?  Surely as the rang of numbers is allways
somehwere around .1 to 16 in magnitude, all that frigging around with
exponent is just a complete waste of time.  Going to 64bit fixed point
would be much more usefull.


--
Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
'Another day, another try.  But remember, SHOOT OR DIE!' -turrican
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au		c64 forever!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Smooth color cycling
From: sjmadsen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Steve Madsen)
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:11:49 -0500
Organization: Miami of Ohio

        This is mainly directed towards anyone in the Stone Soup Group who may
be reading this group.

        I've got a program I found several months ago which duplicates what the
Plasma fractal does in just about any version of Fractint.  The only problem is
that the color cycling on my video card is exceedingly bad with this program. 
Fractint cycles without a problem on the same machine.

        I've had some minor success making the palette update code wait for a
verticle retrace before updating the palette, but it still produces an effect
that is nowhere near as smooth as Fractint.  Thus far I've been using the BIOS
set palette to reset the palette.  If there is a faster way, or if there is
anything else I can do to fix this flicker problem, please email me.

        The code is mainly in Turbo Pascal, but I am not afraid of some
assembler to make things smooth.  I have looked in the Fractint source to find
out how you guys did your cycling, but I couldn't pull much out of it.

        If anyone wants the source I've been playing with, or has any
suggestions, please email me.  I don't read this group much, so mail replies
would be better.  Thanks in advance...

-- 
Steve Madsen
Miami University  Oxford, OH
Internet: sjmadsen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: jjgwynn@athena.mit.edu (Joel J Gwynn)
Subject: Latest Fractint
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:10:16 GMT

Where can I get the latest version of Fractint?  Is there a server somwhere, like
wuarchive.wustl.edu, that I can download from.  Also, I had a strange problem
when trying to view a 2048x2048 image:  It seemed to generate fine, but when I
tried to look at the image with various GIF viewers, I just got these colored
bars.  I have (don't laugh) release 12.
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: twegner@mwunix.mitre.org (Timothy Wegner)
Subject: Re: fracting for amiga?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:49:22 GMT

jmolinari@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:

>		Is there a version of fractint for the Amiga?  :-)

Ken Shirriff has done about 90% of the porting job by making a C only
version for UNIX and Xwindows. Starting with the X version (available
via FTP from sprite.berkeley.edu) an expert programmer could probably
do the port for Amiga quickly. If said programmer used
the same care Ken did, we could maintain the versions together, otherwise
it would be a one-time hack that would rapidly become obsolete. If someone
would take this on I'm sure a lot of people would be grateful. After one
more port the code would probably reach the point where only the graphics
was platform-specific. 

--
Tim Wegner     Fractint co-author
Internet: twegner@mwunix.mitre.org  Compuserve: 71320.675@compuserve.com
From: maspr@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Directed Graph Display Software: WHERE?
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:38:22 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia


I want the nodes and directed links of a given directed
graph to be displayed in a pleasing way - where clusters
of tightly connected nodes are automatically arranged on
the diagram in a local region.

I am sure there are programs out there which display 
directed graphs nicely, but where?

I need to get out a paper on the evolution of random
directed graphs, my graphs are evolving, but currently
I transcribe the directed matrix to xfig and muck around
with it four a couple of hours.  I could write a program
- but I want to shake the bushes first.

Kind suggestions anyone?


******************************************************************
***   Simon Ronald                                             ***
***   "There's a fly in my soup"                               ***
***   Email: maspr@lux.unisa.edu.au                            ***
******************************************************************
From: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Fractint & 64-bit math
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:22:00 GMT
Reply-To: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

CP>One point I have never quite understood.  Why does fractint _ever_ use
CP>floating point for mandlebrots?  Surely as the rang of numbers is allways
CP>somehwere around .1 to 16 in magnitude, all that frigging around with
CP>exponent is just a complete waste of time.  Going to 64bit fixed point
CP>would be much more usefull.

The problem with using scaled 32-bit integer math is that you've only got
32 bits available with which to represent the number.  There's only
somewhere between nine and ten decimal digits of accuracy to play
with.  The floating-point values 1.23456789012 and 1.23456789013 end
up being scaled to the same long integer, which tends to wreak havoc
when those two numbers represent the X-coordinate at the left and
right edges of the screen <grin>.  Hence our switch to floating-point
math when we hit the precision loss.

We could certainly switch to 64-bit integer math at that point. The
problem with that approach (aside from the fact that we'd have to
rip Fractint apart to implement it) is that 64-bit integer math is
slower than floating-point math (if you have an FPU) across the entire
Intel CPU line.

Simulating a 64-bit integer multiply with 32-bit integer math involves
four multiplies.  On a 386 with an FPU, using floating-point math instead
would be slightly faster - and on a 486, floating-point math would be
significantly faster.  On a 286-and-below, a 64-bit integer multiply
involves using 16-bit integer math and 16 multiplies - and 286-and-below
CPUs perform their integer multiplies relatively slowly.  There's
really no gain on *any* system unless you don't have an FPU, and IMHO
it's just not worth the agony to go through all the effort required to
add a feature that only assists deeply-zoomed images and then only if
you don't have an FPU.  That's just my opinion, though, and I invite
anyone with an alternate opinion to go ahead an implement 64-bit
integer math in Fractint - we're always looking for new authors.

                   Bert Tyler   (bert.tyler@satalink.com)
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #343sa . Did you expect mere proof to sway my opinion?
                                                                  
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: cb@wixer.cactus.org (Cyberspace Buddha)
Subject: Re: fracting for amiga?
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 04:57:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.210836.7092@samba.oit.unc.edu> Scott.Maxwell@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Scott Maxwell) writes:

>In short: it can be done. I can't wait for someone else to do it ... :-)

Gee, if you can't wait, I guess you'd better get to work.  ;)
From: shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Re: fracting for amiga?
Date: 31 Aug 1992 21:29:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: hijack.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug31.175212.7839@dsd.es.com> rthomson@dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson) writes:
>>an expert programmer could probably
>>do the port for Amiga quickly.
>As long as the 256 color assumption isn't too firmly imbedded in the
>code.  My understanding is that this is all over the place.

Nope, the number of colors is totally flexible.  Xfractint can limit colors
to any power of two from 2 to 256.

If anyone is serious about doing an Amiga port (or a Macintosh port for that
matter), I'm happy to help them out and explain what needs to be done.
(Summary: you need to rewrite unixscr.c to do pixel reads, pixel writes,
handle mouse movement, set the colormap, draw lines, get input characters,
and draw text.  I've done the nasty part of figuring out the Intel assembler.)

Ken Shirriff				shirriff@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Subject: Re: IFS animation
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:12:42 GMT

edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) writes:

>A file rectri.qtm has been posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fractals.
>It is an animation of an IFS fractal, in Quicktime format.
>Here is the description:

> As the parameters in an iterated function system are changed, the resulting
> attractor changes (continuously).  Here is an example of that, a rectangle
> that changes into a triangle.  We follow the curved edge in the upper
> left of the mandelbrot-type set on page 322 of Barnsley's
> _Fractals Everywhere_ (Academic Press).

I have mostly written a c64 demo that does this in real-time. (About 5000
pixels per second).
As IFS systems are inherantly stable, you only need your arithmetic to
be precise enought to provide pixel addressability.  For a 128x128
window, you can use single byte fixed point and a 32k 7bit by 8bit multiply
table to perform multiply accumulate operations in only one instruction
on 8-bit processors with 6502-like instruction sets.

As interest in this area seems to exists, i will try and finish polsihing it
off sometime rsn ;)


--
Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
'Another day, another try.  But remember, SHOOT OR DIE!' -turrican
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au		c64 forever!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hjf5405@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (James Fincannon)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Correlation Dimension
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:00:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm trying to understand how to use the formula for the
correlation dimension.  It is 
Cd= lim (log (# of points within R)/log (R))
    R>>0

R is the Euclidean distance, but do I calculate R with 
respect to 0,0,0 or to some sort of centroid of the 
data or what?  Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: IFS animation
Date: 28 Aug 1992 10:10:11 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

A file rectri.qtm has been posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fractals.
It is an animation of an IFS fractal, in Quicktime format.
Here is the description:

 As the parameters in an iterated function system are changed, the resulting
 attractor changes (continuously).  Here is an example of that, a rectangle
 that changes into a triangle.  We follow the curved edge in the upper
 left of the mandelbrot-type set on page 322 of Barnsley's
 _Fractals Everywhere_ (Academic Press).
 .
 The individual frames were computed by "Fractal Attraction" (Addison-Wesley),
 then made into a movie with Apple's Quicktime software.  This file is
 "flattened, data fork only", so it will be possible (Real Soon Now) to
 view it on platforms other than Mac.
-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: blade@kulgan.Eng.Sun.COM (Blade Doyle)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: CHAOS
Date: 4 Sep 1992 00:31:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: blade@kulgan.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: kulgan


Hi,  
Durring my travels through software stores I have seen a software package called
CHAOS, I am interested in buying it, but thought that I would see if I could get
some feedback on it first.  I believe it was priced around $36.  Is it any good?
Worth $36?  Hope to see some posts soon.

_________
|Kulgan!|
|\--v--/|
| \ : / |
|  \:/  |
|  /:\  |
| / : \ |
|/--^--\|
|_______|

Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: slumos@unlv.edu (Steve Lumos)
Subject: Re: 227-byte Mandelbrot pgm
Organization: UNLV Computer Science
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 22:21:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.204002.13663@unlv.edu> slumos@unlv.edu (Steve Lumos) writes:
>I missed the first tiny Mandelbrot program (134 bytes I think?) But
>did get the second. The second one will not uudecode properly.
>UUDECODE 4.2 give me an illegal character on line 34 message.

I now have the 134 byte (or whatever) version. Thanks to Sam Laur. I
have two message confirming the fact that Bert's version is corrupted
somehow. Bert: Can you PRETTY PLEASE mail it to me?! 

TTYL - Steve

-- 
Steve Lumos - slumos@cs.unlv.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: twegner@mwunix.mitre.org (Timothy Wegner)
Subject: Re: Plans for Fractint
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:07:46 GMT

bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) writes:

Yes there are new fractal types (cellular automata, quaternions)
speedups (lyapunov is 6x faster). Yes we are looking at Steve Stoft's ideas
from Fractal Witchcraft. I believe I have already fixed the potential
slope and made it a double, I'll check. We still don't have plans for a version
18 release yet, there are more things we want to do. My guess is 6 months. Treat
this like any other vaporware announcement :-) Since this is a volunteer
project, we have to work on available time. I should remind everybody that
Fractint is a community project and additions are always welcome.
Tim
--
Tim Wegner     Fractint co-author
Internet: twegner@mwunix.mitre.org  Compuserve: 71320.675@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: alt.fractals,comp.compression
From: rthomson@mesa.dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Subject: Re: fractal image compression, yet again - oy
Reply-To: rthomson@dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:20:29 GMT

In article <17gjevINN4rv@network.ucsd.edu>
	fisher@inls1.ucsd.edu (Yuval Fisher) writes:
>Next update: new format with better compressed images and color. In about 2
>weeks.

How do you know that your stuff doesn't violate the patents held by
Iterated Systems, Inc.?  How does your method compare with their
patented method?  Apparently, they have patented both the compress stage
and the decompress stage.  I haven't seen the patents myself, nor can
I tell what algorithm you are using without reverse engineering your
code.

							-- Rich
-- 
	Repeal the personal income tax; vote Libertarian in 1992.
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1992 Rich Thomson
UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson			Rich Thomson
Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com	IRC: _Rich_		PEXt Programmer
From: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Re: fractal image compres
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:22:00 GMT
Reply-To: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

RT>How do you know that your stuff doesn't violate the patents held by
RT>Iterated Systems, Inc.?  How does your method compare with their
RT>patented method?  Apparently, they have patented both the compress
RT>stage and the decompress stage.

Confusion reigns.  I was always under the impression that you
couldn't patent anything without explaining exactly how it works
(that's part of the patent application), and the Iterated systems
has consistently refused to explain the details of their technology.

As I understand it, that's why the academic community was up in arms
against Barnsley - not because he's attempting to make money off of
his ideas, but because he's stopped publishing them.

                   Bert Tyler   (bert.tyler@satalink.com)
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #343sa . Did you expect mere proof to sway my opinion?
                                                            
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
From: flanagan@grover (Jim Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Call For Papers
Organization: Society for Creative Access to Materials
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:00:48 GMT

plongo@vax.clarku.edu writes:
: 
:                           CALL FOR PAPERS
:              ON THE TOPIC OF PHILOSOPHY AND COMPUTERS

  [ deleted ]

: * the claims made about the computer-born and sustained
:   disciplines of chaos theory and fractal geometry: so they
:   constitute a revolution in science? 

  While computers have certainly facilitated the exploration of 
  chaos theory and fractal geometry, the seminal ideas behind these
  disciplines are from very early in this century.

  Fatou, P., Sur les equations fonctionelles, Bull. Soc. Math. Fr. 47
  (1919)

  Julia, G., Sur l'iteration des fonctions rationelles, Journal de
  Math. Pure et Appl. 8 (1918)
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: "Missionizing" [sic] to 2-year-olds
Date: 1 Sep 92 08:18:44 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Robert A. Levene writes:

> Subject: Re: Missionizing to 2-year-olds
> Organization: Johns Hopkins University
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that shunning grown children is somehow
> worse than making death threats against pre-schoolers?  If not, then
> please clarify what you meant.

Making death threats against pre-schoolers?

Can you cite any incidents where Messianic Jews threatened pre-schoolers with
death?

I've known grown Orthodox Jews to threaten grown Messianic Jews with death,
but never have I heard of Messianic Jews threatening *anyone* with death,
grown or otherwise.

I think this is really getting absurd, Rob.  Bruce Benning has made his
point, and he has done so by citing a phenomenon which verifiably occurs.
You, on the other hand, are raising a straw man of your own invention.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
		Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried;
     /\		... He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was
____/__\____	crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being
\  / || \  /	fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.  All of us
 \/--++--\/	like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
 /\  ||  /\	way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on
/  \ || /  \	Him. ... By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will
----\--/----	justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities.
     \/							-- Isaiah 53
		Bruce Tiffany
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Subject: Re: Finally...Responce!
Organization: University of Turku
Distribution: alt
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:27:09

              @@@@@ supplied on behalf of Tord Ivarsson @@@@@

From: etxtdi@eds.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Finally...Response!
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:17:07 +0200
Organization: LM Ericsson Data, Stockholm, Sweden

Tom Albrecht writes:

> In article <..> Donna D'Iorio writes:
>>
>>    I've seen no "note" of reply from you before this.  Hope it contains
>>a better defense than you've presented here!
>>    D.D'Iorio
> 
> I sent you private email.  Apparently it didn't get to you.  I would prefer to 
> discuss some matters in private rather than in public with newcomers.  Perhaps
> you can give me an email address that works.
> 

Sounds like the big bad guy is going behind the "fence" to settle thing up
with the little but refractory girl-newcomer ...  (:-)


/Tord I.



(Don't include my sig on your reply - LM)
--
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans 
of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from ancient, from the days of eternity." - Micha 5:1

"Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing 
love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed,"
says the LORD, who has compassion on you.    - Yeshaya 54:10

met b'chet, CHAI B'Y'SHUA !