From: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Reply-To: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 19:38:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.195158.28914@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.063451.9244@ultra.com>, stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix) writes:
>> 
>> Oh....so basically you don't care if she is involved with someone or not,
>> nor do you care what level of involvement there may be.
>> 
>> Forgive me, but it sounds like a scenario of "Get some...at any cost."
>
>You're the one who equates "getting to know her better" with
>"get some ... at any cost".  That says something about you.

No...I suppose Steve wants a relationship with this woman who he SAW and
is interested in.  What interest does he have in this person?  How well
does he KNOW this person?  I'm sure he just wants her for her mind...which
we all know that from SEEING someone...you don't know squat about them!  Then
again, perhaps Steve has been wooing this woman for sometime and knows ALL
about her??

In general....people that try to woo another away, do so based only on
feelings of attraction.  Not LOVE!  In other words...the little head doing
the thinking for the big head (for men).

>> See Steve, you ARE involved though.  It doesn't mean that you are sleeping
>> with her...but if you express an interest and she leaves the other guy, then
>> you dare partially (not wholly) at fault.
>
>Or partially to credit.  Sometimes people are happier leaving bad
>relationships than they are staying.

If the relationship is SO DAMNED BAD, why in the HELL is the other party 
still IN THE DAMNED RELATIONSHIP!!!!!!  Give me a break people.  I know that
there are good and bad relationships.  But, if the relationship is so
frigging bad that you are looking to leave...then LEAVE!  Oh...but I forgot,
it would be soooooo bad to be without an SO for perhaps a few days....so you
gotta line up another one???
 
>>(analogy of telling on a co-worker who is stealing and gets fired deleted)

>On the other hand, you didn't make the boss fire the worker.  With
>the information at hand and taking into account company policy, the
>boss chose to fire the worker rather than overlook the stealing.

Oh...then it's the bosses fault for the firing and not mine?  No...it is the
company's fault because they have such an "outrageous" policy??

>Your analogy is perhaps farfetched and it makes the case for the
>opposite point of view than the one you espouse.  Also, you leave
>out the aspect of
>choice on the part of all concerned.  The worker chose to steal,
>analogous to developing a shakey relationship with the company.  You

Lots of people steal....even though they don't have a problem with the
company.  So, your analogy doesn't hold well, that he is developing a
shakey relationship with the company.  The only shakey relationship he is
developing is with YOU who saw him/her do the stealing.

> Some stuff deleted

>So, you perhaps had impure motives, but others had choices to make,
>and perhaps encouraged by your actions, something you have no way
>of knowing unless they tell you, they made their own choices.
>The boss could have decided to give the worker another chance but
>didn't.

So, my "impure" motives are OK...because something else "good" came out
of what I did?  Two wrongs don't make a right.  You could have decided to
go to the employee and tell them that you wouldn't tell this time if they
returned what they took, but if it happened again you would report it.  But,
you didn't, because you have your own advancement/well-being in mind!  That
was the point of my analogy.  You have two basic choices.  You can tell
your boss and more than likely have the person fired (and then you slip 
into their job) or you could go to the person and tell them to cut the 
crap or you are going to tell the boss.  For the analogy impaired:

You do whatever you can to get the woman (job) no matter what.  You had a 
choice that would "spare" everyone involved.  If you tell the person to
put back what was being taken, the company isn't losing, the guy doesn't
lose his job (though he may try to do it later), and you feel better knowing
that you saved the persons job and the company's money.  Just the same as
if you keep out of the relationship....then all parties have been 'spared'.

Personally, the best analogy I have heard so far is the hammer and the
window.  It does it from an inanimate point of view (which a relationship
sort of is).   Kudos to that analogy.

>Yes, yours proves the opposite of your own point.

Where did I prove the "opposite" of my point?  You seem to have completely
left off the part of my analogy that showed that you had a personal gain
in the matter.  That TOTALLY changes the analogy.  That would be like just
hitting on someone just to get them to break up for no reason and then
dumping the party involved.

>> Oh...so you marry a virgin and you are the only one she has ever slept
>> with.  Another guy comes along and she sleeps with him. She has a wonderful
>> time and "never thought that sex could feel so wonderful" and leaves you.
>> That is your fault for driving her away?
>
>No, it was your fault for being so crummy in bed that you never
>figured out how to satisfy her. 1/2 :)

How was *I* supposed to *KNOW* that she wasn't being satisfied?  Afterall, 
she told me how great it felt and that she felt like she was going to
*explode* when we made love.  :+))  (had to brag a little bit)  The only
way this problem crept up was because she slept with the other guy and 
now all of a sudden, it is my fault because *I* don't satisfy her NOW??

I fail to see how it is anyones fault but HIS and HERS.

	Bill

---
I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from
above, but I believe there's a Ghost of a Chance, we can find someone to
love and make it last...
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 07:26:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Women's Lies to Decent Guys
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA