HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning)
Subject: X-factor, was Re: Reasons for using chalk
Reply-To: ted@nmsu.edu
Organization: Computing Research Lab
	<TIMSC.92Sep14161656@aspen.cfsat.Honeywell.COM>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:30:44 GMT



In article <TIMSC.92Sep14161656@aspen.cfsat.Honeywell.COM> timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider) writes:

   Yes I've tried it... It does dry the hands, but seems more like a
   rosin bag.  I still had trouble with my hands sweating, and they
   seemed to sweat more with x-factor than with chalk.



if x-factor does anything for you at all, then you are probably teh
sort of person who could use the coppertone sport sun-screen.  there
is enough silica in it so that after you apply it, your hands grip
very well (for a while).  not that i would want to try to apply
sunscreen to my hands during a climb....

--

REALLY, instead of hyping low impact soles, I think what we need
are more low impact souls.
					Greg Jahn
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: Invisible Lycra
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:43:39 GMT


Remember that advertisment in R&I a few years back?

Along that line, A fellow instructor from the Ariz. Mountaineering
Club (AMC) decided to go "al la natural" after arriving at the top of
the second pitch of a climb he was taking some students up.  (Every
Spring and fall the AMC conducts a basic rockclimbing course, the
"final" consists of a graduation climb (usually some longer route if
possible... kinda hard around here though!)

Okay well anyway... Mr. "D" is sitting up near the top in his "invisible
lycra" and the first student to follow is a female, and of course she
is the daughter of a local church minister!  Mr. "D" could've cared
less but the AMC got in a little hot water over that one... Since then
the instructors have been cautioned to refrain from wearing invisible
lycra on grad climbs!

Mr. "D" has since relegated himself to the more mundane antics of
eating grashoppers, farting, and taking leaks about 3 feet away from
the rest of the group.  Mind you he did all these before the
"invisible lycra" incident!  Old age is taking it's toll now that Mr.
"D" is married.  I can remember the first time I went over to his
house after he had gotten married....

  "Man what happened to the bean bag chair??? my these are CUTE curtains!"
  "Where did all the CLIMBING pictures go???!!!"



--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Reasons for using chalk
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:46:11 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1992Sep12.011530.28206@credence.com> jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.161113.7444@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>Can some one please tell me what damage chalk does?  Dosen't it just wash off
>>with the rain?
>
>Two answers to your second question... 
>
>1. How much does it rain at Smith Rocks? Joshua Tree? Any number of other
>such places?  Chalk doesn't melt away with the first sprinkle.
>
>2. Overhangs.
>
Ah, again these westerners...

The simple answer to the question is NO, chalk doesn't wash off in the
rain (for the most part).  I naively thought that this was the case,
too, originally:  it is only chalk (calcium carbonate, I think), it
will just disolve/wash away with a good storm.  NO,NO,NO.  Hurricane
Andrew could have come up Mather Gorge at Great Falls and there would
still be chalk along tiparillo (and all the others).  You don't ahve
to invoke overhangs, the stuff just simply doesn't wash away.  We had
5 or 6 days of continuous rain last week here, with some very heavy
downpours.  I went out to GF the first nice afternoon and indeed, it
was still slightly wet but definitely still chalky.  I still wonder
how it can be, but I figure it must be due to the damn humidity (which
is why I, personally, use one of those chalk balls in the first place.
Of course, I like to blame everything on the damn humidity so...).

So IF you think chalk is ugly, don't assume it is temporary.  It was
only a few issues of CLIMBING ago that reported a chalk cleanup
somewhere in CO.  I forget exactly where, but you just KNOW that spot
gets some real storms!  So yes, I'll use chalk when the humidity is
very large (meaning the normal 95% around here) sometimes, but I try
and minimize it and realize that I'm contributing to the ugliness.
The old "I have seen the enemy..." thing.

To the person from this area who said he doesn't use chalk even on the
very humid days, well congrats.  I wish I could get up even 4th class
things but I sweat too much.  I wonder:  to someone who has been
climbing around her longer than 3 years, does the chalk wash off if
the water ever floods down mather gorge and the level gets that high?

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: rgo@druhi.att.com (Ron Olsen)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Reasons for using chalk
Keywords: save your butt
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:31:40 GMT
Reply-To: r.g.olsen@att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Denver CO

Chalk has on more than one occasion saved my butt
from a potential disasterous fall:

It was raining while I was leading the last pitch of Royal Arches,
usually an easy slab traverse with minimal protection.  I had one
more move to make to the belay, and my last reliable pro was far
behind me.  My foot kept slipping on the wet rock when I tried to step
left.  A fall here would have been really ugly.  I made the move
by liberally chalking the wet rock and my shoe so my foot would stick.

I was leading an alternate to the first pitch of
the Flying Buttress on Mt. Meeker in Rocky Mountain National Park.
The guidebook said it was a 5.8 crack and then a few face moves up
to the belay; no mention of any runouts (that's what I get for trusting
a DuMais guidebook!).
Well, the face moves turned out to be 30' of continuous
5.8 and 5.9 face climbing on small holds with no pro.  Once I got
started, I couldn't back off.  My last pro
was two shaky RPs dimly below me.  I followed a line of chalked holds
left by a prior party (of 5.11 climbers, who probably cruised right up),
liberally adding chalk of my own.  I was sweating
physically and mentally; probably as gripped as I ever have been
on a climb.  Don't know if I would have made it without the
chalk to point out the route and chalk to keep my hands dry
while I desperately fought to stay in control.

I have had two partners take screamer falls due to greasing out
of cracks without using chalk:

I was climbing the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral,
and my partner had forgotten his chalk bag.  On the start of the third pitch,
he slipped out of a layback and took a head-first fall
past the belay ledge, missing the ledge by less than a foot.  He got
a scratch on his chin, but was otherwise unhurt.  I gave him my chalk bag,
and he went back up and led the pitch.

Another partner, who at the time was a no-chalk purist,
took a 20' fall at the top of the first pitch of One Way Sunset at
Devils Tower due to sweaty hands slipping out of a steep finger crack.
She now uses chalk.

Chalk may be unsightly to some, but to me it represents an added
safety factor.  Perhaps new substances like X-factor can provide
the extra safety without the visual impact of chalk.

As far as the environmental impact of chalk: give me a break.
The use or non-use of chalk has NO long-term impact on the survival
of the earth or humankind; same as bolts.  More environmental change is wrought
by natural forces (rockfall, earthquakes, hurricanes,
etc.) than by all the world's climbers using chalk.  The impact of
chalk is purely a visual aesthetic issue, not an environmental one.
Remember, much of what we are now climbing was under the sea
millions of years ago, and probably will be again long after we
are gone.

	Ron Olsen
	Boulder, Colorado
	r.g.olsen@att.com
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:48:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep2.164857.15601@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>The problem I experienced with the first
>pair is that one of them became about 2-3 feet longer than the
>other.  I deduced that the longer one had taken most of the the load
>in one or more significant falls.  At that point I decided it was
>time for a new pair even though the first set looked OK externally.
>
>Perhaps this is another benefit of double ropes  --  you are more
>likely to notice that one has been permanenly stretched by a big
>fall.  Actually, the faller (me) didn't think it was all that bad!

All ropes stretch about 10% after prolonged use.  I would not let
the fact that one strectched a little more than another worry
me in and of itself.  People don't notice the stretch because it
happens slowly over time with rappeling, hanging, falling, etc.
But all ropes do it.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: <None>
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:09:16 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Spider mits.....
        Its obvious really, they are the small gloves worn by arachnids
that allow them to climb up window glass. REI sells them and they come
in packs of 8. Don't fit me mind, one of the problems of being of average 
stature again I guess.

        To be serious though, they're thin rubber 'gloves' that leave the
fingers free and provide friction and protection for the back of the hand
when climbing cracks. Many climbers use tape, I make a sort of tape glove
that is re-usable, others cheat and use spider mits (many :-) needed here!)

        I think spiders and other insects actually pull off those amazing
overhanging friction moves using water trapped in the hairs on their feet.
Now there's a concept we should consider.

Still feeling weird!
Bob.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: chalk
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:05:16 GMT

>In article <Sep07.163541.72648@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:

>But I stand by my claim.  Chalk is basic.  Sweat is acidic.  In
>croweded climbing areas, I bet chalk does more good than harm...

... from a climber's point of view, that is. There is no way it increases the
visual appearance of the rock it is used on, and I can sympathize with non-climbers
who feel climbers are degrading the rock. I'm still going to use chalk, but feel it 
should be kept to a minimum in places where it will be visible and not washed away 
at regular intervals (such as beneath overhangs close to the ground). While on the
subject of visual ugliness, one thing I can't understand is the presence of enormous quantities
of webbing for rappel anchors instead of a two bolt chain anchor. These rat's nests of webbing
can be virtually impossible to decipher when trying to ascertain safety (has anyone rapped from 
the saddle of Mickey Maus wall in the Boulder area recently? Or from the top of the first pitch
of Whimsical Dreams in the S. Platte? Then you know what I am talking about...), 
and are incredibly ugly. For all the pros and cons of bolting in general, I can't think of any reason
to oppose their use for rappel stations.

greg
From: mjharris@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Offwidths
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:03:12 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <715599508.16077@minster.york.ac.uk>, rob@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
> 
> Marty Garrison (martyg@Ingres.COM) wrote:
> : In article <1992Sep3.084013.58592@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
> : >Greg Hill writes:
> : >
> : >
> : >There is a climb somewhere in the peak district, UK, probably at curbar if I
> : >remember and possibly called Goliath or similar (It's been a long time!).
> : >A 30' gritstone ugly of which the guide says "the energy expended on this climb
> : >is usually enough to light Sheffield for a week. The difficulties depend on
> : >how well you can swim"
> : >
> : >Now that's offwidth technique!
> : >
> : I believe thats the left eliminator, I did it a number of years ago
> : and found it to be somewhere around 10c.
> : 
> : Marty
> 
> 
> I am not sure but I think Bob the Ex-Pat is correct, I dont have my full
> selecetion of guides here in the office but Goliath gets E1 and is 
> somewhat unusual. I'll look it up and post description
> 
> Rob.

The route is actually called Right Eliminate, and is usually given E3, with
(perhaps not surprisingly) no technical grade. First ascent: Joe Brown
back in the '60s or maybe even '50s (can't remember exactly).
Pretty remarkable stuff. 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Subject: Stone Mt, GA (was Atlanta Climbing)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:19:10 GMT

cc41@prism.gatech.EDU (Craig L. Champlin) writes:

>In article <1992Sep13.235749.5079@ncsu.edu> bsbarron@eos.ncsu.edu (BRADFORD SCOTT BARRON) writes:
>>Anybody know about climbing at Stone Mtn., GA or other areas close to Atlanta?

>Stone Mtn. park is CLOSED to climbing, something about liability. :-(

I was dragged to Stone Mountain GA while visiting relatives in the area about
ten years ago.  It's a hefty granite monolith which might be a great place
to climb if it weren't for the access problem.  Unfortunately, when I was
there, it was being privately run as a tacky tourist trap.  A narrow gauge
scenic railroad encircled the rock, and wound its way through trampled looking
woods past inexplicable plywood camels (!).  There was also an aerial tram to
the summit.  The prime attraction was not the rock or the woods or the camels,
however, but the biggest, tackiest, butt-ugliest sculpture I have ever seen,
a civil war scene carved into the granite on the side of the mountain.  I
believe they were touting it as being larger than the heads carved in Mt.
Rushmore.  (Did I ever say it's too bad they didn't carve Marge, Homer, Lisa,
Bart, and Maggie instead of George, Abe, Tom, and Ted?)  Anyway, I can only
hope that the cable car cable snaps, the train derails, the camels get eaten
by termites, and the proprietors fall ill with a mysterious rash in time for
climbing to open up on the mountain before my next visit to Georgia.

I'd be curious to hear from any GA natives about the current state of affairs
surrounding this place.

Eric Hirst
eric@milton.u.washington.edu

P.S.  ...not to be confused with Stone Mountain NC.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject:  Re: chalk 
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:16:35 GMT

Well, I'm sure many will rush to differ, but I just don't find chalk that
offensive. It (along with rap slings, gear-clad climbers, etc.) kind of adds to
the climbing crag ambiance for me. Of course at such places one doesn't expect
a "wilderness experience". For that you head to the bigger peaks where I
suspect you can't see chalk, slings, etc. without a good pair of binoculars

Has anyone ever polled non-climbers on this issue? Are we climbers creating
this chalk ugliness issue among ourselves? Notwithstanding that ugliness is
subjective to begin with. 

Parenthetically, a quick scan of my High Exposure calendar (terrible paper for
actually writing stuff on this year) shows ony a few photos where chalk is at
all evident and none where it really jumps out at you. 

Of course there are those places where the chalk buildup is pretty rude at
close range ( something that usually causes my crux indicator light to come
on).  But I've never heard a turon complain about these!

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: mbrodesky@sc9
Subject: Bolt hangers being removed at Pinnalces?
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:29:15 GMT


	Greetings, does anyone have information on the removal of bolt hangers 
at Pinnacles National Monument? It seems several routes have lost hangers. Some
of these routes include:

Relayer, 1st hanger removed, 2nd bolt sheered off, 3rd hanger removed, anchor
         hangers removed.

Stre? route to the right of Castles made of sand, 3rd hanger removed. 

Subterranean tango - Bottom hangers removed.



Michael
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Replacing triggers on technical friends?
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:07:46 GMT
Reply-To: bill_wright@mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


I have a couple of trashed triggers on my technical friends and would
like to replace them.  I have done this in the past to regular friends
and Camalots, but am having no luck in finding a repair kit for the 
technical friends.  Also, the cables are attached differently than
Camalots (just by bending the wires) and it appears that it might not
be very easy to do this yourself.  Has anyone ever done this?  Do you
need to send them back to the factory?  Any hints on repairing these
would be greatly appreciated.



-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Books on climbing/hiking in Equador?
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:34:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep05.003346.5605@ALEX.ims.bellcore.com>
pc@thumper.bellcore.com (Peter Clitherow) writes:
>
>anyone have any recommendations for decent books (and maps!) on the 
>high country of Equador?  personal stories of climbs there?

Rachowiecki, Rob, and Betsy Wagenhauser, CLIMBING AND HIKING IN ECUADOR. 
	Bradt Publications, UK. (copyright date missing)

Tony Perrottet (ed.), INSIGHT GUIDES: ECUADOR. APA Publications LTD, 1992.

Kelsey, Michael R., GUIDE TO THE WORLDS MOUNTAINS (3rd edition). Kelsey
	Publishing, Provo, Utah, 1990.

There's also a Lonely Planet guide for Ecuador that I don't own.  The Insight
Guide has the best picture.  A back issue of Rock & Ice has an article on
climbing in Ecuador.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Wolfgang Guellich is dead
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:27:44 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.climbing, eno@leland.Stanford.EDU (Benedict Dugan) writes:

> Anybody know more about this?  Or have I been taken for a ride?
> 

No, I don't know more, but I was told the same thing last week while
climbing in Wyoming.  If it's a rumor, it travels fast.

Mort (very sad)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: new gif files on wuarchive.wustl.edu
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 03:14:38 GMT


I've uploaded some new gif files to wuarchive.wustl.edu

 elcap1day.gif    (classic shot of long bridwell and westbay after their one day ascent of the nose)
 mtnpond.gif      (scenic view of a mountain and it's reflection in pond)
 jtree2.gif       (cool shot of a lead at jt)


there are also some other climbing related gifs on there,... check out
the new-files (indexes) to see what has been added, use the keyword
"climb" in your searches.

enjoy

--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: dek2@cec2.wustl.edu (Dean E Kassmann)
Subject: Re: Guide service: IAS
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:27:55 GMT

In article <106480266@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> eao@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ed Ogle) writes:
>Does anyone out there in notes-ville have any experience with guided trips
>put on by International Alpine School in Eldroado Springs, CO?  I am 
>interested in hearing about peoples experiences with them.  I am particulary
>interested in their ski trips.


I have had some experience with them.  My first use of their services was an
introduction to ice-climbing about a year and a half ago.  I had an excellent 
time and learned a great deal.

The next time was this last spring in which I attended an avalanche seminar
down in Ouray, CO.  It was also excellent and I learned a hell of a lot.
I also went on some ski touring around Mt. Sneffles (spelling?) 

I know at that time they were in the process of constructing a program to do
some ski trips around the Telluride area for this winter.  They should be
great if everything went through.  I know they also offer private guiding
(other than what I mentioned above which they offer as programs).  You can
go on trips up and around a cabin they have near the base of Mt. Sneffles
at 11-12000 ft. in Yankee Boy Basin.  

There main headquarters, I guess you could call it that, is in Eldorado Springs, CO
but they conduct a lot of stuff out ou Ouray, CO.  (It is absolutely beautiful 
country down there)

Hope this helps...



-- 
Dean Kassmann            |
 dek2@wucec1.wustl.edu   |  
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Reasons for using chalk
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:15:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.161113.7444@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>Can some one please tell me what damage chalk does?  Dosen't it just wash off
>with the rain?

Two answers to your second question... 

1. How much does it rain at Smith Rocks? Joshua Tree? Any number of other
such places?  Chalk doesn't melt away with the first sprinkle.

2. Overhangs.

						Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: Justin Norfleet <jpn1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Rope condition questions
X-Xxdate: Wed, 9 Sep 92 17: 51:07 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: jpn1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:46:15 GMT

Subject: Re: Rope condition questions
From: Bruce Gustifson, bruceg@Cadence.COM
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:36:49 GMT
In article <1992Sep8.153649.865@Cadence.COM> Bruce Gustifson,
bruceg@Cadence.COM writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.190939.7203@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>Is there a rapel device that dosen't twist the rope because I'm getting
tired
>>of unwinding my rope after every climb I do.
>
>  A sticht plate is a device which doesn't impart much twist to the
>rope. The problem with this is that most plates I've seen are made
>for 2 different rope sizes. ATC should be good for this also.

How about a brake-bar rack?  Variable resistance (get one with six bars);
no twist; no problem on really long rappels.   Easy to lock off too.

Justin "my .sig isn't ready yet" Norfleet
j_norfleet@cornell.edu
From: David_Woodsworth@mindlink.bc.ca (David Woodsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Reasons for using chalk
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:44:32 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

If I may jump in with a question:  as a climber I'm familiar with ropes, tape,
chalk, shoes, and all the usual "performance enhancers" ... but could someone
please tell me what a "spider mit" is?

David Woodsworth

--
The preceeding opinions are shareware and yours to try for 30 days.  If you
wish to continue using them after that time, please send $10.00 CDN to:

                  david_woodsworth@mindlink.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.climbing