HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Madden is an Idiot.
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:44:11 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <3246@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch) writes:
>There is a rumor that Madden has asked OU if he can take over the head
>coaching spot there, so his detractors may not have to deal with him any
>more after this season.
>
>Daniel Welch

Say it ain't so!!  I wonder if he still has what it takes to be a great head
coach though (it's been a while since he's been there).

satish nair
giants (wanted: a head coach, handley need not apply)


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin Barnes)
Subject: Re: EVE OF THE BIG GAME: BILLS AND STEELERS
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:56:44 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard NARC Atlanta
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Well I agree with you except for one small point!

BILLS  32

STEELERS 21



SQUISH THE FISH!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: besides yell at refs, i mean.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:00:00 GMT

In article <93010.131744RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>      
              writes...
>offensive coordinator.  defensive coordinator.  offensive line coach.
>defensive line coach.  quarterbacks coach.  running backs coach.
>receivers coach.  tight ends coach.  linebackers coach.  secondary
>coach.  special teams coach.
> 
>what is there for a head coach to do?
> 
>bob vesterman.
> 

Well, don't forget the strength coach and the assistant head coach in your 
insightful analysis. d::-)

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Bengals Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Subject: Re: God did Young SUCK!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:21:28 CST

In article <1993Jan11.014816.11478@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.005517.11019@news.acns.nwu.edu> fish@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Eric West) writes:
>
>>The 49ers have had a recent history of choking (i.e., losing as favorites)
>>in the playoffs after quite respectable seasons (losing to Minnesota five
>>years ago and to New York two years ago).
>
>I'll agree about Minnesota, but not New York.  The Giants were the better
>team that year.  The Niners had absolutely no semblance of a running game.
>How they got to 14-2 is beyond me; probably a combination of luck (which
>was evened out in their snake-bitten start to '91) and the Joe's magic.
>
>The Niners are now 8-2 in the last six postseasons.  I'd hardly call
>that choking.  You need to revise your expectations a bit, Eric --
>you're talking about the most successful team in the past 12 years,
>who have also won two of the last Big Dances, in a league that prides
>itself on trying to establish parity.  Whatever happens against Dallas
>next week, the Niners are consistent entertainment and definitely a
>team to be proud of.

I agree; I'd love to have the *problems* that the 49'ers do.  Try being a
Cleveland fan, for goodness sake!
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Subject: Re: Young AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year
Originator: daveb@lotus
In-reply-to: Adriene_Nazaretian@QM.cis.YALE.EDU (ALN - Go Giants!)
Reply-To: daveb@lotus (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:42:07 GMT

In article <Adriene_Nazaretian.97.0@QM.cis.YALE.EDU>, Adriene_Nazaretian@QM (ALN - Go Giants!) writes:
>
>I agree Bono would have done an equally good job...
>

Wishful thinking.  Bono is another in a line of backups the 9ers can
make look good for a short streak, say like Benjamin, Kemp, and
Cavanaugh.  He's an immobile stiff, and if he went to another team
he'd be a notable bust.

-dB
-- 
Windows/NT - the VMS of the 90s
From: MPA15C!MP@TRENGA.tredydev.unisys.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Thank God for the Niner DEFENSE
Date: 11 Jan 1993 12:25:28 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I'm starting a Dump Steve Young movement.  If everyone who thinks that
Steve Young's three inexcusable fumbles and one stupid interception
warrant his explusion from the league will send me $10.00 then we can
find someone to encourage Steve to start his career as lawyer.

In watching this game I kept getting the feeling that Young actually
wanted to lose the game.  Thank goodness that the defense didn't agree.
They put pressure on Rypien, the held Art Monk to 2 catches for 44
yards, and kept Byner to a pathetic number of yards per carry.  In other
words, they did all the defensive things they needed to do in order
to win the game.

Offensively they looked so-so but I attribute that Steve Young's
idiotic performance.


WE WANT JOE!   WE WANT JOE!   WE WANT JOE!   WE WANT JOE!   WE WANT JOE!

________________________________________________________________________
Mark Perew  Unisys Corp   MREW/CORP  | Standing in the present, I see
(714) 380-5484  Fax: (714) 380-6560  | my future in my past.
mp%mpa15c@trenga.tredydev.unisys.com | Where are you in the here and
Mark.Perew@ofa123.fidonet.org        | now?
============== "All opinions are mine," sayeth the poster ==============

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Another Mike for new Bears coach . . .
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:50:44 GMT

anda@ahpcrc.umn.edu (Andrew A. Anda) writes:
>IMHO, McCaskey is going against his grandfathers wishes.  Halas didn't just
>appoint Ditka to be the head coach, he also made him custodian of the Bears
>tradition, character, and legacy 

I don't really know what that means, and I wonder whether Halas could
look into the future and see what Ditka would be like in the 90's.

However, for those who aren't blind Chicago fans, all that Ditka was
in recent years is a boor, a bully, and not a very good coach.  Or
didn't you notice that your "Da Bears" have become the joke of the NFL
-- an underachieving, disoriented bunch?

I saw very little character in the Ditka of the last few years, and all
of it was bad.  He was hysterical, out-of-control and often just plain
dumb.  If you think that he earned respect for your team, you're either
dreaming of 1985 or stuck in a bad skit of "Da Fans".


--Gidi



Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jbhuber@iastate.edu (Joseph B Huber)
Subject: Re: Vikes future
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:45:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.003220.3231@uc.msc.edu> bob@uh.msc.edu (Robert Hanson)
writes:
>In article <C0AwJo.9x6@news.iastate.edu> jbhuber@iastate.edu (Joseph B Huber)
>writes:
>>This is a nice wish list, but because of the Walker deal, the Vikes are going
>>to have to essentially make due with what they have. Perhaps they can make
>>some aquisitions via free-agency.
>
>I don't know what you mean here.  The Walker deal won't hurt them anymore. 

I don't (care to) remember the specifics of the Walker deal, but I think it
essentially came down to the Vikes losing ~3 years of early-round draft picks.
Very rarely can a draft pick fit right into the starting lineup; it usually
takes some combination of time on the developmental squad, subbing for a
starter, and special teams play before a drafted player can be a starter.
IMO, the Vikes are extremely fortunate the Terry Allen and John Randall have
come along as fast as they have.

Yes, the Vikes again have good draft picks, but it will take a couple of years
for these players to be ready to start (if they pan out at all). If the Vikes
came up with good players in the late rounds of the draft during Walker years,
then they will be OK; if not, the current starters will have to hang on until
the new draft picks are ready to go.


>I also think that it may be time to replace Irwin. I used to think they need
>a new WR but watching Joe Johnson put the moves on during a kickoff return 
>and on a end around vs. Green Bay, and seeing Jake Reed run down Mitchll 
>from behind during Mitchell's punt return that would have been a touchdown, 
>I'm not sure if WR is what they need.

I think that Jake Reed and Joe Johnson can take care of the Vikings future
recieving needs. Offensive linemen and QB are the immediate needs.

-- 
Joe Huber 
(jbhuber@iastate.edu)        | Capt. James T. Kirk on the 2nd law of thermo: 
Dept. of Mech. Egr.          |  "It's not a hundred percent efficient,
Iowa State University        |   but nothing ever is."
From: ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Sabre regulations
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:55:16 GMT

I was in a University match against several other Unis just before Christmas,
where because of team difficulties, I fought at all three weapons, despite
the fact that my sabre experience was limited to five bouts fought five
years ago (the last one cost me a thumbnail).
We fought electric sabre (great fun), but it was frustrating, partly because
I am not suited to the sabre style & philosophy, and partly because of what
seemed like some strange presiding.
Anyway...
There is a rule which states that if you do a beat attack, the beat must
be on the top half of your opponent's blade. If you hit the bottom half,
this is counted as his/her parry, and if they then hit you, it is counted
as their parry/riposte, NOT your beat attack. I lost a lot of hits through
not knowing, then not being able to get used to this one, but there was
a very odd aspect to the weay that the rule was applied - several times
I took my opponent's blade, and did a successful graze attack, which was
followed by his counter attack, which also hit. This was almost invariably
given to the opponent on the grounds that my blade slid down to the lower
part of his blade, and was hence parried *despite* the fact that the hit was
part of the original attacking motion (mine), and my blade was at no time
deflected or taken out of line by his - I would have interpreted
this as a malparry. Can anyone shed any light on this aspect of sabre
presiding - I'm largely just curious, having chalked the whole thing up
to experience.
Scorewise, out of nine fights, I won one, and lost five of the others 5-4,
hence the frustration. Hey ho.

Cheers,

Andy

-- 
Andy Lewis (ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk) | 
Department of Electronics        | A juggler without a theme...
and Computer Science             | 
University of Southampton        |
From: beginnings@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: beginner questions
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:29:03 GMT
Reply-To: beginnings@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

The definition of counter time given in the previous message is
incorrect.  Counter time is not "an attack made with a faster
rhythm -- initiated between your oppoenets down-beats."  That is
good advice -- as to when to attack but it is not what counter time 
is all about.

Counter time -- is an an attack (made with a feint) into an opponent's
attempt to do second intention.  In second intention you are making
prepartions for your attack -- trying to ellicit a response from your
opponent (that is getting them to attack into all of your preparation).
For example, if I am advancing quickly hoping you will make direct
attack into my preparation so that I can parry and hit you with a r
reposte -- if you are doing counter-time you will realize this and
make an attackinto my prepartion with feint -- drawing out my parry
deceiving it and happily hitting me.

Terrence Gargiulo
From: mece25r@rosie.uh.edu (Palit, Suman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Epee
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:16 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <8JAN199316103125@sleepy.bms.com>, kormann@sleepy.bms.com (JOSEPH KORMANN) writes...
>Now for the serious question: What is the recommended spot to watch when 
>fencing Foil? My instructor recommends looking just behind the elbow-area.

I've been taught to avoid looking consiously at the arms or the 
opponent's blade. Looking at the knees IMHO would not tell anything
about his footwork, since most good fencers don't telegraph their
moves much! I've been told to look at the feet, and let my peripheral
vision take care of the opponent's arm movements....the rationale being
that footwork is ALL important! After all, if you're in control of the 
distance, what does it matter what your opponent is doing with his 
arms/blade? Also, if his blade is nowwhere near your peripheral vision,
it's never a serious threat!

>(How about sabre? Anything on where to watch?)
> 

Again, the feet, I would have to say....but I don't do much sabre,
so I'll leave it to them


>-Joseph
> 


Suman 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Single Stick
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:09:48 GMT


> 
> It may have some application to SCA broadsword and fencing
> technique, and *I* certainly have no objection to seeing it
> here.
> 
> Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It can have some application to SCA sword work particually Florientine. The
most interesting application that I know of was one man who use Arnis

beat a duke. As far as the fenceing connection, I expect that the Filipinos
learened as much  as the could of spanish knive and sword work.

If some posting was done to the rec.martial arts then maybee we can drag
someone into the conversation who really knows what they are talking about.
No insult ment to anyone here just commenting on my own level of understanding.

			Mackenzie.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: beginner questions
From: CHD@HERMES.ECE.ARIZONA.EDU (Chris De Young)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 09:28:25 GMT
 <1993Jan8.181811.16590@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> <8JAN199319290245@rosie.uh.edu> <1993Jan9.173237.8312@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: --
NNTP-Posting-Host: hermes.ece.arizona.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1993Jan9.173237.8312@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> norvell@csri.toronto.edu writes:

> [...]  Make
> the step extending to attack, your opponent is doing the same.  Just as
> you get close enough she won't have time to change the line, withdraw your
> arm to a parry 4 (or 5, if you're fast -- recall your opponent's blade
> is comming at you almost double speed) and riposte as you pass.

Or, if you think you're *really* fast, as your opponent's blade comes down
bring your arm up toward a parry 5, but make a fast cut to the decending
arm first, then your parry 5, then riposte to the arm again.  This might be
especially effective with electric, which I haven't really done (poor
student you know).

Note that since your opponent is making the attack and you have broken your
arm to make the parry, if you hit with the first attack to the arm (the one 
just before your parry 5), you in fact do not have right of way and a sharp
director will give the touch to your opponent if they hit.  If you're fast 
enough with the whole series though the director may give you the riposte
(by mistake) even though you really hit on the first action.

;-)

-Chris
chd@ece.arizona.edu
Xref: sparky rec.sport.fencing:797 rec.org.sca:17477
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing,rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA: RAPIER-PLAY:  Contact in Calgary wanted
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:44:48 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

	Unto all good gentles who read this does Cosmano send
greetings!

	A friend and pupil of mine will be moving to the mundane
local of Calgary soon.  He is interested in continuing in fencing
(the SCA variety) when he gets there.  Could some kind souls pleas
send me a contact name for the local Don, Company Captain or 
Dean of the Rapier school their?  Please reply by email, as 
I am infrequent in reading these groups and may miss the response.

	Many thanks!

	In Faith and Service,
			Cosmano
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Cross training (i.e., foil for an epeeist or vice-versa)
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:41:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <5JAN199315062724@jane.uh.edu> mece25r@jane.uh.edu (Palit, Suman) writes:
>> 
>
>
>I've been cross-fencing foil and epee for about a year now. IMHO, it's
>been a great help to me. ...
>
>Also, while fencing epee, parries have to be really good and solid, since
>there is no off-target! If you learn how to parry well in epee bouts,
>it could be translated to a really good foil game
>
>

In foil you must convince the Director you've parried.  Takes milliseconds.

In epee you have to convince Mr. Very Heavy Blade that it's been parried.  

Takes forever, and has a distinctly different feel.

-dk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: kate@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Kate Sanderson)
Subject: SCA/Fencing Manuals
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:46:42 EST

Hello there!

Can any of you sca fencers recomend some good period fencing manuals that 
I might have a half decent chance of finding at a university library? 
I've seen all sorts of names bandied about, and I'd like recomendations 
of a good place to start.  If you can, please email an answer as well as 
posting.  I have to place a long distance call to log in to my bbs, and 
that sort of limits my reading time!

                Thanks!

                     Kate Sanderson (known in the SCA as Kasia Blackfox)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: rosen@pooh.sdd.trw.com (Daniel Rosen)
Subject: Fencing in the Tulare area
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 13:52:47 GMT

A women recently left my fencing club (Conejo Fencers in Thousand Oaks)
and moved to Tulare, California. She asked me if I could send out this
note to find if there are any fencing clubs/fencers in the Tulare area
meaning basically anything from Bakersfield to Fresno. If you know of
any please reply via email preferably, although posting to the news
group would be okay.

Thanks,
Dan

----------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Rosen			email: rosen@pooh.sdd.trw.com
Senior Researcher		       rosen@aurora.sdd.trw.com
TRW Defense and Space		       rosen@eyor.sdd.trw.com
One Space Park  R2/1104		voice: (310)812-0803
Redondo Beach, CA  90278	FAX  : (310)812-7147
================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Cross training (i.e., foil for an epeeist or vice-versa)
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:29:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.204858.8284@cheshire.oxy.edu> t_pascal@cheshire.oxy.edu writes:

>My questions are, what should I pay attention to, or try to focus on
>when I fence foil, so I can improve my epee skills?

First off, it's a great chance to practice your parries. I have a bad
habit of rarely parrying. Second, can be fun to freak out the foils by
taking the attitude of "if there's only one on-target light, who cares
about right of way?" Unfortunately you have to attack to the body,
which isn't very good epee style, but it can be lots of fun.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: cfuentes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Carlos A. Fuentes Jr.)
Subject: Re: SCA technique, the wraparoundex
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:56:22 GMT

In article <10JAN93.18439131.0069@VM1.MCGILL.CA> OGI9@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA (OGI9000) writes:
>  I occasionally use a move which is somewhat similar to that.  I
>start in the traditional sixte en gaurde position, then drop my
>blade diagonally, so that it is almost in seconde but closer to
>the body.  I then pick up their blade in an an upward swing and
>draw the back of my blade across the opponent.  The blade follows
>an almost circular path in this move, which I believe is called a
>'bandelero'.  It has to be performed very quickly, and often works

I was trying this out and having difficulty moving from sixth through
second to O's left side smoothly.

I found that _fifth_ through second etc. worked very well, and I
wondered if this is what you meant for a few reasons:
o  It feels natural in fifth
o  You mention the "traditional sixte en garde", and sabre sixth
   strikes me as an awkward en garde, I haven't seen it written up
   as an en garde, only a parry, and fifth _is_ an en garde, again
   a natural feeling one.
o  The blade tip does not move diagonally between sixth & second;
   it does in fifth.
o  The arm has to travel a _long_ way between sixth & second.

These are the observations of an _extremely_ novice sabreur.
If you didn't mean fifth, then I would really like hear more
of the flow of the action since I it would seem I am missing
something crucial.  I would really like to pull this on my
fellow novices :)

As a side note, how reliable is using the back edge in
electric sabre?

>Dave 'Toast' Sanguinetti

-Carlos Fuentes

P.S. - Please pardon my un-French when referring to guards :)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: hines@left.fishkill.ibm.com (Charles K. Hines)
Subject: Re: Single Stick
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 14:12:43 GMT
Reply-To: chuck_hines@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Poughkeepsie, NY


In article <1993Jan5.214020.4180@icaen.uiowa.edu>, sabaker@icaen.uiowa.edu (Sarah Anne Baker) writes:
>It doesn't exactly, but I have found that some staff stuff is really similar to
>some stuff in fencing...
>
>And not much else is going on right now (can you tell most fencers are
>college age and seem to be "home" right now?)
>
>so fire away...
>
>-)))---------  Sarah Baker
>

Ok then, I'm willing!

Is there anything in particular that you folks wish to discuss?
I can talk about DeCadina (freeform sparring with the canes), a little
about Espada y Daga (sword and dagger fighting), the Sinawali (stick weaving
patterns), or anything else you can think of.

Someone also mentioned Aikido in one of the earlier notes, and I have 2 years
of experience there...if you would like some cross discussion.  It's not
exactly fencing either, but it is a sword based form.

Chuck Hines
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Single Stick
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:11:53 GMT

 
> Might it be better off in the martial arts news group instead?  Either way 
> it's fine by me...
> 
> Chuck Hines

I think that your right. The martial arts group would proubly be better since
there is more to it then only weapons technique. I will look for posting there.

		Mackenzie.   
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: keradwc@rahul.net (Kevin Davis Connery)
Subject: Re: SCA technique, the wraparound
Organization: Ringworld Engineering 
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:44:28 GMT

In article <93007.170122HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> HZS@psuvm.psu.edu (Therion) writes:
>In article <93Jan06.164605.20771@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles
>Parr) asks:
>
>>I am looking for evidence of the use of 'wraparound' technique
>>in medieval broadsword combat.
[...]
>
>My guess is that the answer to this question might best be found in
>archaeological studies such as Thordemann's excavations at Wisby. We should be
>able to determine the angle of the blow from examining skeletal damage combined
>with some of the basic kinesiology of swinging a sword.

One of the classed taught at a Collegium Occidentalis did just that. Turns out
that the data doesn't support much of what we do: The number 1 cause of death
(identifiable by skeletal remains) was head injuries, with the impact angle 
indicating it was a shot from behind and above (i.e., a vertical strike 
to the top/rear of the head). Very difficult to do, if not impossible, 
from in front of the 'victim'.

kdc

-- 
Keradwc an Cai                     A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery                kconnery@isi.com or  keradwc@rahul.net
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing