From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Signs in windows, and other stuff...
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:54:28 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Note: Much material referred to below was also cross-posted to soc.motss.

After wending my way through two (three?) mutant threads on related (?) topics
on the two newsgroups listed above, I figure it's time to venture where angels
fear to tread.  Starting, first, with the ambulance-driver thing:

In article <l7asbaINNh8g@spim.mips.com>,  mpolen@gelato.mips.com 
(Michael Polen) writes:

>So a sign that says "Gays for Clinton" or "Gays for Bush" or "Gays for
>AIDs education" is obnixious and insensitive?  Frankly I would rather
>not take away the right of gays to identify themselves by taking away the
>right of heteros to identify themselves.

The key phrase to keep in mind as you sort this issue out is "in context."
As the letter-writers to _PGN_ pointed out, in the context of "response to a
proposition" or "simple introduction," "I'm straight" (or, in the case of the
former, "No thanks, I'm straight" or "Sorry, I'm straight") is not obnoxious
in the least.  But in the context "absence of proposition" or "nervous hetero
boys feeling insecure in the middle of a gay-identified setting," the statement
loses its neutral connotation.  As I did not attend the parade myself, I
cannot vouch for the factual accuracy of the events as reported, but based
on my understanding of crowd behavior at other Pride Parades (as I stated in
my original post on this topic, which I wish Mr. Cramer had bothered to quote
in full instead of excerpt selectively to score phobe points),  the ambulance
drivers were probably _not_ propositioned by the spectators  -- or if they
were, as Steve Dyer pointed out in a followup on soc.motss, it was a "back
at'cha" response to a needlessly defensive move.  To underscore the difference,
I should note that in most cities, straight relatives holding up signs pro-
claiming their support of their gay and lesbian kin are a staple of Pride
Parades, and these publicly identified straights are warmly welcomed by the
crowd.

Now, if you will indulge me while I put in my $.02 on the mutant "Gayspace"
thread:

I feel for Carl Erdman.  Unlike the Cramer creature, I think he wandered into
this discussion about the propriety of a municipal government erecting a public
monument for a political purpose solely to debate some of the philosophical
issues implicit in the move as originally described.  This is certainly okay
to do on talk.politics.misc -- and I intend to follow the conversations on
these matters there (and hope those of you who choose to follow this up do so
there as well).  Soc.motss, on the other hand, is not just a debating forum
but a social (and emotional) space as well, a place where people who feel like
it can express gay rage (or gay silliness) as well as discuss issues in a calm,
rational manner.  Yes, the tone of Carl's initial post was such that hackles
were sure to be raised, and I think that perhaps some of the knocks he took
for that were deserved.  But following along, I got the impression that he
was truly more interested in the political philosophy behind the matter than
the motss-specific content.  On that regard, I would consider him "clueless"
in the _benign_ sense of the term (if such exists): that is, he probably
doesn't spend much time thinking one way or the other about anti-gay dis-
crimination.  If he wishes to educate himself further on the subject, I'm sure
he knows where to look for information.

I hope he did read the posts about how the monument is _not_ being built with
public funds, though.

On the broader question he raised -- "Is it right for the government merely to
serve as the instrument by which a powerful majority (or minority, were it to
have sufficient power) imposes its will on the rest of the community?" -- I'd
have to answer "Definitely not!"  Where the phobes have it all wrong is in
their irrational fear that we are trying to "impose" gayness on everyone.

___________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr.
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
Internet: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!" -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City
of Kansas City, Mo.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36555 ca.politics:6134 ba.politics:3869