From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Neil's depth (was Re: neil's cross?)
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:49:12 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Okay, Gregg, let's address some of the issues you brought up in your reply
to my previous. Post.
 
You say that you can't really apply Aristotle or Heidegger to current problems.
Well, I disagree, I think that any thinker is pertinent to current problems and
trends, we can learn from the past as well as the present.
 
As to Neil not claiming to be a philosopher or a poet, and the fact that you
do not see him as such, well, I a glad to hear that.  It seems to me that there
is a divide between the way people on this newsgroup talk about Neil's lyrics an
d about Peart himself and the way they perceive these.  If you enjoy analysing
his lyrics, more power to you.  I am not saying that there is anything wrong wit
h this, it's just that I sometimes get the impression that people around here ta
ke Rush to seriously, and I think that, from what I know of Neil's world view,
 
he would find that disturbing.
 
 
Secondly, you suggest that I am saying that Neil's lyrics are sophomoric.  This
 
is not precisely what I said, or perhaps I stated it otherwise than I would have
liked to.  I have great respect for some of his lyrics, but some I find either
 
really simplistic (philosophically) or pretentious.  Here is my opinion on
 
Neil's lyrics: 1st Period: "Fly by Night to Hemispheres", we have a young Neil
 
Peart trying to prove himself, the lyrics of this period, I find are very inte-r
esting, exciting and innovative, he is an angry young man trying to come to term
s with what he sees around him, trying very hard to get his point accross and of
ten succeeding.  Middle Period: Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire, this is my
 
favourite period lyrically, Neil is integrating all kinds of influences into his
writing, his maturity is showing, and the craftsmanship is at its peak, he deals
outstandingly with issues of technology, youth, aging, politics, etc.  The curre
nt period: Presto and Roll the Bones.  I find the lyrics stagnant, pompous,
 
alternating between smug intellectuality and middle-age angst all the while dea-
ling with issues dear to teenage listeners.  I mean, there are some really good
 
tunes on Roll the Bones and Presto, but with the notable exception of Available
 
Light, which I have mentionned is not at all what I would call a typical Rush so
ng, I find the lyrics to be too intellectual, to the point where they are laugha
ble in their pretention..  I also find that he is too often repeating himself, I
 get a feeling of deja vu with the songs.
 
 
On to the next objection, that I am miffed at the notion that Neil Peart does
 
not fit into the traditional mould of Rock-Star-as-media-personality.  I whole-
 
heartedly applaud him for not stooping to that level, but hey, two minutes of
 
his time to sign an autograph would not kill him.  Besides, if he is so
 
adamant in rejecting Heroes and media-personalities, the ethical thing would
 
be to take two minutes and talk to the kid, let him know that perhaps his
 
perceptions are unhealthy. Besides, I think that if someone does him the
 
honour of taking the time to stop Neil and iniate a conversation or ask for
 
an autograph, he should be flattered and have some respect for the other person.
Hey, privacy is valuable, I won't deny that, but when one is in the public eye,
 
one should take the minor inconveniences that come with that.
 
As for misunderstanding Rush's lyrics and blaming Neil for that, I would tend
 
to disagree, my whole point was not so much to fault Neil's lyrics but to point
 
out that there is only so far one can go in analyzing his lyrics and reading the
m in the same way that one would read Aristotle or The Bible.  This criticism is
directed more at Rush fans than at Neil.
 
 
As for those useless first-year philosophy courses.  I think that you could bene
fit from one, Gregg, perhaps you may discover that Dead guys, like Nietzsche,
 
Heidegger and Aristotle have just as much to add to contemporary debate as Neil
 
does.
 
And now to address the passage of yours that I found to be an outright flame:
 
"If when you were sixteen you thought you were having really deep
 
thoughts thinking about the lyrics to ``Tom Sawyer'' when you
 were actually having shallow ones then don't blame that on Neil".

Well, Gregg, first of all, you are in no position to determine the
kind of thinking that the lyrics to "Tom Sawyer" provided for me, so 
I'll enlighten you.  The lyrics of "Tom Sawyer" got me to thinking
about taking a stand on issues and on doing something about said issues.

For me, personally, "Tom Sawyer" was a battle-cry that said, "get up off
your ass, if you want the world to change, you're the one who has to change
it".  It also got me to thinking about my values.  The song served as a kind
of catalyst, it got me to examine aspects of my personal values and lead me
to seek out thinkers that would help me determine these values, and to move
beyond the lyrics into a whole new direction.  In short, some of Neil's lyrics  got me thinking philosophically, but I did not remain on the level of simply
analysing his lyrics, I went out and sought new knowledge, new inspiration, new
influences.  I think that you could benefit from a similar process, Gregg, it seems to me that you are fixated on Rush.

As for saying that you are not a blind unconditional admirer of Rush, who accepts everything, weren't you the one who started the "To be or not to be a Rush
fan thread", it seems to me that quite a few people responded rather negatively to your all or nothing attitude about fandom.

If you want to flame me because I don't share the same vision of Rush as you do,
then flame away, it'll only make you look like an idiot.  If you can't accept the fact that I am not uncritical of Rush's work, then that's your prerogative, but I think that you should really consider what I have said.  I have a right to 
hold an opinion and to convey that opinion to others.  If my opinions do not fitin with yours, then I suggest you take your own advice about the space-bar.  If,however, you are really interested in an intelligent discussion about the music of Rush, then get a grip on yourself, and use your critical reason, and while 
you're at it, try to expand your horizons a bit, there's a lot of good, intell-gat it, expand your horizons a bit, there's quite a bit of good non-Rush music out there that is intelligent and well crafted.  I came onto this newsgroup becaueI wanted to share my opinions and experiences with others, not so I could blindly and inspipidly sing the praises of Rush

Chris Tsirbas
tsirbasc@brise.ere.umontreal.ca
__________________________________
All men by nature desire to know.
                     -Aristotle
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush