From: mece1xg@menudo.uh.edu (purna)
Subject: Re: Are IAs close-minded ? 
Organization: Dept. of Wizardry, Univ. of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:09:08 GMT

howdy!
some sections of this thread have been cut to save bandwidth.

In article <1992Oct8.223731.24711@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.232001.14758@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>
>Meeting some parents in Bay Area, isn't enough. You should try to go to a 
>conference like National Federation of Indian-American Associations
>or Global Non-Resident Indian Association's conferences. These are held
>annually or bi-annually.
>Such conferences usually have various forums and social activities. These
>are excellent occasions to meet your age group people as well.

true, these would be the best places to make better observations and
assessments as there would be more people to make generalizations
from.  however, some of us cannot afford the money and/or time to
attend these types of conferences right now.  does that mean that
generalizations cannot still be made?  let's see....

>> But can generalizations be made?  In this case I'm fairly confident in
>> claiming that the Indian culture promotes such attitudes in II-in-America
>> parents.
>
>Explore further. Some of us who have been around are not so confident ...

well, i've "been around" for quite some time also.  and, i have to agree
with manish on the GENERALIZATION of the attitudes among II parents.
i am not saying this is wrong or right, just what occurs.  remember,
most of these generalizations refer to parents who have been in the
U.S. for some time and now we, their children, have grown to be
"IAs" and are making these observations.

this is a little side note, but i feel important to discuss.  alok,
do you consider yourself an II, IA, indian, or ???  this question
also goes out to other people as well.  personally, i consider myself
an IA.  my definition of an IA is someone who has grown up in the
u.s. but in a traditional indian household.  by that definition,
my roommate is also an IA.  alok, by your own admission,
you claim to have come here by yourself and have made it that way.
i applaud and congratulate you.  my father did the same thing, except
it was with $8 and in 1969.

what this all brings me to is the PERSPECTIVE of people.  i will
have a very different perspective than someone who came to the
u.s. from india when they were, say, in their 20s.  thus, this may
explain some of these different views.  i feel that at times, some of
us are discussing two different things, but we cannot always see
each other's viewpoints.  enough of the soap-box speech....

now about long hair....
>> Maybe because he thinks it looks good.  Maybe he just likes long hair. 
>> Maybe it doesn't involve insecurity.  Ever consider that?
>
>It is possible that he thinks it looks good and consequently likes it.
>However most kids I know of or have seen don't particularly like that.
>The only kids I have seen who like it are the people who somehow are 
>involved in music bands etc.  Rock stars are their role models .
>If that is the kind of career he is looking for, it may be okay ...

huh??  really??  most kids i know fall into 2 categories for growing
long hair.
a) they want it.
b) it's a form of "rebellion" against their parents.

and, of these, those who are in category b) usually clip their hair
after 3-6 months, as they can't stand it.  where are you getting your
info about kids not wanting their hair long but growing it anyway??
who's forcing them to keep it that long, their parents??

>> It is a valid generalization with a good sampling and good analysis.
>
>That is what you would like to think. Unfortunately your sampling
>includes only bay area parents ...

well, you can add Dallas, Houston, New York City, El Paso, Cleveland,
Danbury CT, various cities in New Jersey, Denver, and Knoxville TN
as part of that sampling.  these are cities where *I* have met indian
parents and they fall into the same attitude classification that
manish has observed.  as a note, i have met SEVERAL parents from
these cities who have all come from different backgrounds, cities
in india, etc. so it's not just a larger superset of a small sample.

>Fine, but have you bothered to explore other states even with in USA ?
>I too lived in California and I know it is more liberal w.r.t. races
>etc. but there are other aspects of culture which are less emphasized
>in CA - for instance, family values, education, committment, depth
>of friendship etc.

i'm not sure about all of these.  education??  california has some
of the best colleges/universities in this country that are STATE
supported!  however, this may be true for the public education in
the lower levels;  i've never lived there.

>Considering 5000 years of Indian history, these incidences are like a drop
>in the bucket.
>Do you think USA is harmonious ?

agreed.  the USA has not been harmonious in its history.  however,
considering the many wars, fights, invasions, etc.  in india (as well 
as so many other countries) i think this is more characteristic of 
human beings than any one culture/religion.

alok, in an earlier post says,
>>>I have seen a number of postings here from IAs saying that they would rather
>>>ignore IIs in dating or social interactions. How can then the IAs understand
>>>the Indian culture ? From books which are ancient ? From news media,
>>>which may give lopesided news ? From movies, which depict fiction and unreal
>>>more than the truth ? By observing their own parents, who may not represent
>>>the whole spectrum of Indian culture (but may represent only a tiny bit of 
>>>it) ?
>>>
>>>Who is closed minded here ? Aren't IAs closed minded when they say, they
>>>will not date or socialize with IIs ?
>> 
>> I don't say I wouldn't date or socialize with II's.  In fact, I have found
>> the sweetest, coolest people among some II friends of mine.  But in my
>> experience, II's have such a different world-view most of the time that
>> I have to act as if I were hosting a foreign-exchange student, along with
>> all the awkwardness. 
>
>Sure it feels like that. But that is part of affirmative-action and 
>socialzing. Beginning is hard and one sees rewards slowly.
>Much is given to IA kids, much is expected of them.
>Most of these II students are all by themselves, they live in this
>complex country by their own efforts. On the contrary you can depend
>on your parents etc for the basic things at least.

first, dating should be a preferential thing based upon
your own PERSONAL tastes.  as for me, i have never gone out on a "date"
with an II.  the reason?  simple.  the ones i have asked don't accept
and/or get offended.  the girls, it seems, feel overwhelmed by this
idea of "dating" and get scared.  specifically, they get afraid of
my "american-ness".  i am TOO american......whatever that means.  
yet, they have no idea about my background, upbringing, etc.  they
only base it on what little they have seen of me.  now,
who's the ones being closed-minded?

>>  This is compounded even more because I am not at
>> ease with my identity enough to ignore the fact that II's look down upon
>> some of my American attitudes.
>
>Part of this identity problem will go away as you meet likes of you.
>If they look down upon your American attitudes, does it mean that you
>have to look down upon them ? You can prove that you are superior
>by ignoring their bickerings and concentrating on mutually constructive
>activities.

well, when these IIs look down upon you, start speaking in hindi
(which i don't understand), make plans for some outing, and then
blatantly ignore asking you to join them, it's kind of hard to
concentrate on mutually constuctive activites.  on the other side,
whenever my "american" friends and i have softball games, bar-b-ques,
parties, go out drinking, etc, i will make it a point to invite
these II friends.  yes, a few have come out.  yes, we have had some
very interesting and enlightening discussions.  however, that success
rate is only 5-10%.  i shall continue inviting them, but i'm not holding
my breath.

>> Manish
>Alok

peace,
-purna

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian