HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:22:20 GMT
Distribution: ne
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <Bxxsx3.F7K@world.std.com> mhessman@world.std.com (Mark D Hessman) writes:
>I've been there exactly once, with very mixed results. The place looks like
>an odd combination of a Jewish deli and a Chinese restaurant... very informal,
>plastic plates and the like. The food varied widely; their version of General
>Gau's Chicken was good (a *great* garlic sauce), but we couldn't even tell
>what was in the fried wontons and didn't think we wanted to know.

The nice thing about it being kosher is that there are far fewer mystery 
meats for it to be, and I would imagine that the odds of it being something 
that you "didn't want to know" are far less than in your normal Chinese 
restaurant.  

-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com
From: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu (John-Marc Chandonia, , , )
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Ethiopian restaurant
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:17:58 GMT
Reply-To: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu
Distribution: ne
Originator: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu

twm@world.std.com (thomas W martin) writes:
> Does anyone know of a good Ethiopian restaurent in the Boston area?  There
> is one listed in the phone book at 333 Mass. ave.  Has anyone tried it and
> what's your opinion. Thanks.

I haven't tried that one in over a year (since I went one evening and
they were OUT OF WOT!).  But the one on Tremont Street is most
excellent; the food, atmosphere, and prices are right.  They don't
always have honey wine; I think this might be seasonal or something.

And they don't sneak pork into your food either!

JMC
-- 
chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu    | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
John-Marc Chandonia           | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Graduate Biophysics Program   | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom 
Harvard University            | I will not yell fire ...
From: jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: tex-mex west of 128
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:17:34
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com


Several weeks ago I saw two recommendations for tex-mex, and barbecue west
of 128 [one was in West Boylston I think].  At the time I ignored the
detail and didn't save the messages.  Now friends that come through from
NMex are here again.  We make pilgrimages to NE Mexican and tex-mex places
and they tell me what is wrong with them.;-) This is all done in good fun
and I haven't developed a complex about it.  So, if anyone saved those
references [or, at the risk of starting another "my favorite tex-mex"
thread, can recommend their favorite] I would appreciate it.

For some reason one of the test of "authenticity" appears to be the
availability of *real* green chilis.  So far our local dives have failed
this test. :-(

jim taylor  Thinking Machines Corp   Cambridge MA

jpt@think.com        
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: twm@world.std.com (thomas W martin)
Subject: Ethiopian restaurant
Summary: looking for Ethiopian restaurent in Boston area
Keywords: Ethiopian, Boston
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:15:08 GMT

Does anyone know of a good Ethiopian restaurent in the Boston area?  There
is one listed in the phone book at 333 Mass. ave.  Has anyone tried it and
what's your opinion. Thanks.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:24:36 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <By6GzJ.M5L@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H  
Schwartz) writes:
> I merely stated that I believe the *menu* should note the presence  
of 
> pork in standard fare dishes where it is not normally found in most 
> restaurants.  

But one of your complaints was about the String Beans.  Of all
the Chinese restaurants I've eaten this dish at, only one
DOESN'T put pork in the string beans. So this is the standard
way of preparing the dish.

> 
> As the the chef's duty to inform himself of the needs of various  
clientele,
> I disagree slightly, because a truly good chef should, upon  
request, be able 
> to cope with a special request for a low-salt or diabetic menu, an  
MSG-free
> dish and many other specieal requests.

Yep, most chefs, if told in advance, can avoid putting certain
things into certain dishes, or can prepare a special item. But
they have to know about it in advance.  I'm sure if you tell
the waitress up front "I can't eat pork. If any of the dishes I
order have pork in them, tell me, so I can order others (or can
they be made without port?)"  you have a very good chance of
getting what you want.

> 
> As to the restaurant's responsibility, I disagree entirely.  They  
are in
> business to serve their customers.  They can not do so if they are
> blissfully unaware of the many preferences and restrictions that  
exist.

90+ percent of their customers don't care.  Now, the question is,
can they respond to the needs of most of the remaining 10%, and
what is the best way to do so.  Do they need to put "WARNING: PORK"
on the menu next to all dishes containing pork?  How about
"WARNING: MILK" next to any item that contains a dairy product, in
case someone is allergic to milk?   How about for salt?  And so
on. I think this is too much to ask.  A much more reasonable 
way to go is to assume that those folks who really have special
needs will make these needs known up front, then do their best
to respond to these needs.

> If Yen's Wok were a hole-in-the-wall restaurant in Chinatown and  
nobody
> spoke English, I would not expect this of them.  I also would be  
unlikely
> to take my girlfriend there, or if I did we would go to great pains  
to
> ask about every single dish.  But Yen's Wok is an upscale suburban 
> restaurant, and I have higher expectations of their service, start  
to 
> finish, and that includes the menu.
> 
And Yen's Wok, based on your description, did a fine job of 
responding to your needs.  They replaced any of the dishes that
bothered you.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: More deceptive menu practices
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:29:08 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


I don't have specific dietary restrictions, but I would
suppose that having such might present a lot of problems
eating out. I once had the experience of entertaining a
vistor from Taiwan who belonged to some very strict
Buddhist discipline that prohibits not only meat, seafood,
eggs and such, but also all 'bulb' vegetables such as
onion, garlic, scallions, and leeks. She was Chinese, but
there was very little that she could eat off of a Chinese
restaurant menu. But at one place, we gave the wait person
a run-down on her restrictions, and he came back with a
list (albiet a very short one) that fit the requirements.
I suppose a good restaurant would be able to check with
the chef if they know your peculiarities.

But there are other deceptive menu practices that really
rankle me. One is listing a standard, well-known dish
or drink on the menu, but upon ordering, that item comes
with some non-standard rendition. Some of these have been 
things like "Caesar Salad" that was just Romaine Lettuce
with generic Italian dressing and a sprinkle of grated
Parmesan... not near enough garlic, no lemon, and NO
ANCHOVIES. Or "Eggs Benedict" with sandwich ham substituted
for Canadian Bacon and cheese sauce substituted for
Hollandaise. Or Margueritas made with a mix, rather than
just Tequilla, Triple-Sec and lime (these days I ask ahead
if I want a Marguerita, "How do they make it?").

Some times such disappointment can be warded off by having
a proper description of the item on the menu, but in my
experience it's the places that don't have descriptions
that are prone to butchery of such items.

Does this bother anyone else besides me? Have you ever had
similar experiences or observations? Where?

- Bill Lambert
From: James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Portuguese kale soup recipe wanted.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 20:03:02 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)



Portuguese Green Cabbage Soup  (Caldo verde)

Serves 6

750g / 1.5 lb potatoes
salt and pepper
375-500g / 12-16 oz trimmed cabbage leaves
medium onion, chopped
6 generous Tablespoons / 0.5 cup olive oil

Peel and cook the potatoes in salted water to cover,
then sieve, liquidise or process.  Reheat with enough
water to give a medium to thin consistency.
Season well.
Meanwhile, roll up the cabbage leaves and shred
them as finely as possible with a sharp knife.
Add the cabbage and the onion to the soup,
5-15 minutes before serving.
Cook without a lid - to keep the color - until
the cabbage is a consistency you find agreeable.
Different kinds require different cooking times,
but it should remain slightly crisp and look a
little like seaweed in the white soup.
Distribute between bowls, then put in the olive
oil so that it is clearly visible.
Serve with cornmeal bread.


In Portugal they use a deep blueish-green cabbage called
'couve'.  "In England, we must use kale or similar dark
cabbage, or -- as Maite Manjon suggests in _The Home
Book of Portuguese Cookery_ -- turnip tops.  You can use
chicken stock instead of water, and add cream, or cut-up
chorico or morcela sausage..."


From "Jane Grigson's Book of European Cookery",
Ateneum, New York, 1983.

-----------------------
Enjoy,
Jim Kowalczyk                    James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Andover, MA
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: mhessman@world.std.com (Mark D Hessman)
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:19:50 GMT

Actually, there *is* a kosher Chinese restaurant right around here -- in
Brookline, to be specific. I can't quite remember the name (though I think
"Rose's Kitchen" or somebody's kitchen at the very least rings a bell), but
it's about a block or two or three north of Coolidge Corner on Harvard
Street.

I've been there exactly once, with very mixed results. The place looks like
an odd combination of a Jewish deli and a Chinese restaurant... very informal,
plastic plates and the like. The food varied widely; their version of General
Gau's Chicken was good (a *great* garlic sauce), but we couldn't even tell
what was in the fried wontons and didn't think we wanted to know.

                                              -- Mark
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:50:40 GMT
Reply-To: trb@jambi.boston.ma.us (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Beth trb, Baruchline, MA, USA

In article <Bxxsx3.F7K@world.std.com> mhessman@world.std.com (Mark D Hessman) writes:
> Actually, there *is* a kosher Chinese restaurant right around here -- in
> Brookline, to be specific. I can't quite remember the name (though I think
> "Rose's Kitchen" or somebody's kitchen at the very least rings a bell), but
> it's about a block or two or three north of Coolidge Corner on Harvard
> Street.

Ruth's Kitchen
401 Harvard Street
Brookline, MA
617 734 9810

Glatt Kosher.

There is a fairly large selection of beef and chicken dishes, duck,
veggies, tofu, moo shi, noodles, and soups.  Also tame stuff like chow
mein or chop suey.

I haven't eaten there, I just had the info handy.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Brookline, MA
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:23:28 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: insert anything here

rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>This is a complaint.  A nice night out at a restaurant that
>came highly recommended was ruined.  The restaurant is Yen's
>Wok on Route 9 in Framingham.  The problem is their menu.

>we orderd Dry Cooked String Beans.  

>The last item contained ground pork.  Again, I don't recall ever 
>seeing pork mixed in with Dry Cooked String Beans before.  Another
>item in the same section of the menu is marked "with or without
>pork".  So why wasn't this one?  Sure, I would have known that
>the Home Style Bean Curd contained pork, because every restaurant
>and every cook book does it that way, but lots of people wouldn't
>know that, just as I didn't know that this restaurant puts pork
>in the Dry Cooked String Beans.  Given the much larger group of
>people who, expecting a vegetable dish, are distressed by any 
>meat at all, I consider this to be a far more serious problem than
>that of the soup.

	That dish is nearly *always* served with pork.  It is listed
in the "Vegetarian" section of almost every restaurant I know
but most still put the word "pork" in there somewhere.
Most of the titles of the dishes are only rough translations of the
major component of the dish - if you need more information you have to ask.

	Seems to me the thing to have done would have been to
discuss the pork problem up front.  You got the replacement food,
so I would hardly call the event "ruined".  So next time you'll
self-educate before ordering.

	We once had a big problem at dimsum where one of the people at
our table has a SEVERE (read deadly) reaction to shellfish.  Try
getting dimsum without shrimp - it's everywhere.

BBC
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: mdivya@world.std.com (Marigowda Divya)
Subject: looking for the name of a fish
Summary: looking for the name of a fish
Keywords: fish
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:33:09 GMT

does anyone know the correct name of this fish:
  nickname is "pogie"; the meat is sweet; its very bony and so cannot
   be filleted;  the average size is about 17cms long, 6.5 cms wide,
   1.5cms thick;  its silver and red around the gills; it is found
   between Maine and N. Carolina.

Thanks in advance;  in case you are wondering why, this is part
of son's homework.

Cheers.

divya
From: gordon.cheung@analog.com
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:42:27 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Analog Devices, Inc.
Originator: gordon@apollo

In article <BxtHKM.6Ao@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>This is a complaint.  A nice night out at a restaurant that
>came highly recommended was ruined. 
>...
>I went with my girlfriend and her daughter.  They keep Kosher.
>...
>The night started off with a big surprise: the Egg Drop soup
>contained pieces of pork.... 
> we orderd Dry Cooked String Beans....  
> contained ground pork.  Again, I don't recall ever 
>seeing pork mixed in with Dry Cooked String Beans before. 

    The ground pork in the egg drop soup is a first, but pork in
string beans is not uncommon. I think the safe thing to do next 
time, is to request no pork in all the dishes. Even if you miss
a dish that contains pork, hopefully the waiter or waitress would 
catch it and tell the cook to skip it.  And if you still get pork
on your dish, then it's the waiting person's fault. 
    As for the menu being misleading, I can understand your point
but I don't agree. Many people avoid different ingredients for 
different reason, no pork, no MSG, no beef, no seafood, no soy,
no salt... It is impossible to list all the ingredients in all 
the dishes. When it comes time to guess what's in a Chun Liu
Gai, the safest bet is to ask the waiting person. Even if you
think you know the dish, it doesn't mean you know for sure what's
in it. I would never know what may show up in my Ceaser salad. I 
know there would be lettuces, but would there be cherry peppers?
Next time, ask before ordering, and if the waiting person can't
speak english, that's another story.... 
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Gordon Cheung         gordon.cheung@analog.com                7E      |
---------------------------------------------------------------------7X-------
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:13:17 GMT

trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum) writes:

>In article <BxtHKM.6Ao@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>> I went with my girlfriend and her daughter.  They keep Kosher.
>> That is usually not a problem in Chinese restaurants.

>The deception here is that you think you can get a kosher meal in a
>Chinese restaurant (unless, maybe, if it is a vegetables-only
>restauant).

...

>If you want kosher food at a restaurant, go to a kosher restaurant.
>If you want only want meat-free food, ask for that, and don't bring
>the question of "kosher" into it.

"Meat free" has nothing to do with it.  I specified in my post that
my girlfriend avoids pork, shellfish, and oyster sauce.  There are
other things as well.  She calls this "kosher", as do I.  She calls
the level of observance that you mention "strict kosher", as do
I.  I have always understood that different people pick and choose
to observe or not observe various components of the dietary laws,
yet many manage to call themselves "kosher" in one way or another.

Understanding of (and nomenclature for) my girlfriend's exact dietary 
practices is not necessary for understanding my post.  The fact is that
many observant Jews and Muslims, and many Indians of a variety of faiths
will not eat pork.  It's common enough that I believe restaurants ought
to list it as an ingredient.  Others seem to disagree.

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
From: mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Ceasar Salad Contents
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:34:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu

>blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>
interesting things on dietary restrictions deleted

>But there are other deceptive menu practices that really
>rankle me. One is listing a standard, well-known dish
>or drink on the menu, but upon ordering, that item comes
>with some non-standard rendition. Some of these have been 
>things like "Caesar Salad" that was just Romaine Lettuce
>with generic Italian dressing and a sprinkle of grated
>Parmesan... not near enough garlic, no lemon, and NO
>ANCHOVIES. 

I hate to break it to you but Ceasar Salad does not
have anchovies. See 'From Julia Child's Kitchen' for
a great description of the original Ceasar Salad at
the restreaunt in Tijuna and how she found the
original recipe again. She notes that most people
think there are anchioves becasue there is some other
ingredient, which of course I can't remember, that
gives a taste something like anchioves. SHe can say 
it much better than I can paraphrase.

Amy Mossman
Newsgroups: comp.multimedia
From: grier@bnr.ca (Brian Grier)
Subject: Re: Kodak Photo-CD software
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:15:14 GMT

> I'd like to know if there already is software to read/decode/vizualize
> Photo-CD images on (SUN) workstations, and I'd like to know any experiences
> with this new medium.

I haven't heard about a version for the SUN, but Kodak has already created
a version for the Atari Falcon030 computer. :^)

You will need a CD-ROM that is MPC compatible. But you should be careful
before buying your drive. Most CD-ROMs that support PHOTO-CD are capable
of supporting only single session PHOTO-CD format. The newer multi-session
PHOTO-CD format CD-ROMs are more expensive and relatively scarce. I think
that SONY is the only company with a multi-session capable drive. Chinon
will supposedly have theirs out by the middle of next year.

Brian, WS1S
Bell Northern Research
Research Triangle Park, NC
bjgrier@bnr.ca
From: benson@siemens.com. (Dan Benson)
Newsgroups: comp.multimedia
Subject: QuickTime on a Sun?
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:44:41 GMT
Organization: Siemens Corp. Res., Inc.

Just by chance, does anyone know of any utilities that would
allow one to play a QuickTime file on a Sun SparcStation?

Thanks for any pointers,

--
Dan Benson                           Siemens Corporate Research, Inc.
(609) 734-3668                       755 College Road East
dbenson@siemens.siemens.com          Princeton, NJ  08540
Newsgroups: comp.multimedia
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Subject: Re: TV resolution?
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:31:06 GMT

> Which brings up the question: exactly how is a line of resolution defined?
> Consider an alternating pattern of 640 white and dark lines (320 white,
> 320 dark) that my computer is displaying on a TV set.  I look closely and
> can see all of the white and dark lines (they don't merge).
> Am I seeing 640 lines of resolution, or only 320?  

Simple answer: you're seeing roughly _480_ TV lines of resolution.  You have
to multiply the full horizontal res by 3/4 (640x3/4 = 480) to get TV "lines."

The reason for this goes back to the original NTSC specs, which attempted
to give the same resolution in both the vertical and horizontal.  There are
about 483 visible vertical scanlines, but because of spot blooming and other
perception problems (known as the Kell factor), you really get ~330 lines.
So the horizontal resolution was also set up to be ~330 lines, but since
TV screens are rectangular, obviously that res had to apply to a horizontal
viewing distance equal to the vertical veiwing distance.  Ie: a square.
    ________________   _
   |            :   |   \
   |            :   |    \
   |            :   |     > 483 lines scanned, ~330 perceived
   |            :   |    /
   |____________:___|  _/
   ^ 330 lines  ^.......... For same size as vertical height (square)
   ^ 440 lines total^...... For full width of screen ( square res * 4/3)

As to how horz lines are actually measured in consumer items, sometimes it's
done electronically but often it's just done by eye using a line chart :-)

Again, this is very simplified and can be nitpicked, but the main points are:
 a) The horizontal resolution measurement is given for 3/4 screen width.
 b) In TV-speak, each black/white line pair = 2 TV lines.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> <76703.4227@compuserve.com>

Newsgroups: comp.multimedia