From: dabrowsk@parc.xerox.com (Jarek Dabrowski)
Subject: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Organization: Xerox PARC
Date:  1 Sep 92 03:42:06 GMT

SUMMARY: Theism is more demanding intellectually than atheism.

In <17oq1vINNp27@maico.ksu.ksu.edu> Jonathan W Newton argues that
atheists think while theists (Christians) happily avoid thinking:

-Jonathan W Newton:
>>>to have faith (i.e. cease to think) [...]
>This is the biblical definition of faith.  You are supposed to have
>faith that christ is the savior and son of god.  This means that you do
>not question (think critically) about the subject of god in any way.
>
That's interesting, because I believe that Jesus is the Savior and Son
of God; I also think critically about the subject of God in many ways. 

-Jonathan W Newton:
>anything that the bible says is true is not to be questioned; you are
>simply supposed to have faith and accept it as fact.
>
???? You sound more holy than any of the Catholic priests I've met :-D. 
If the Bible says something, I should treat it seriously and - if it is
related to the problem I am concerned with - I should try to understand
it as I should try to understand results of a properly done experiment. 
The interpretation of the experiment depends (sometimes critically) on
the details of the theory. Similarily, the interpretation of the Holy
Word depends on theology. Now, an interpretation is considered valid if
it serves its purpose. In the case of science, the general purpose is to
control our objective environment; this purpose can be achieved only as
a result of thinking. In the case of religion, the general purpose is to
create a subjective relation with God; this purpose can be achieved with
or without thinking. And though it is indeed easier to find God without
thinking and questioning, the skeptic way is also open for traffic.

-Jonathan W Newton:
>Believing in god [...] takes away the burden of thinking about alot of
>important subjects.
>
Examples, please. A trivial example supporting the opposite thesis:
Atheists don't think about one important subject, namely about God :-D.

-Jonathan W Newton:
>Furthermore, atheism is not a dogmatism.  The only thing atheism is is
>a lack of belief in god(s), nothing more and nothing less.
>
This lack of belief is dogmatic; the detailed dogma related to it depend
on the implementation but usually are based on ontological objectivism. 

-Jonathan W Newton:
>There is alot of variability in the opinions of atheists, but
>these are all conclusions the reached by thought rather than faith.
>
Show me one logically valid conclusion reached without taking some
unverifiable axioms as granted, and I'll mail you a check for $100.

-Jonathan W Newton:
>There is also alot of concensus among atheists which is incredibly
>reassuring.
>
For atheists. The reason for the concensus is trivial: They reduce the
scope of their metaphysics to objectively accessible events. If there
were no concensus, this would mean that there's no objectivity in this
world. Still, such a reduction is only partially possible. And whenever
atheistic metaphysics goes beyond objectivity, the concensus disappears. 

-Jonathan W Newton:
>Christianity is appealing to you as well as many people because it is
>the easiest way to dodge intellectual responsibility.
>
Good that you know better. What if I said the same about you? Indeed, it
is very easy to say: "Only objective events should be investigated. The
subjective should be reduced to the objective". It's MUCH more demanding
to give a consistent analysis of the objective and the subjective. Not
only because the scope is much broader but also because there are usual
problems on the boundaries...  

-Jonathan W Newton:
>Christians just say "we cannot question the divine wisdom of our lord",
>and don't have to make any efforts to resolve the questions they face.
>
That's your belief. Ask me such a question. At least one, please.


Best wishes,
             Jarek
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Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16011 alt.atheism:16927