From: t0f7579@venus.tamu.edu (FREEMAN, THOMAS, JR.)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: dealin w/atheist
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:08:38 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services

In article <Apr.8.04.31.48.1992.27847@dumas.rutgers.edu>, superc@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Shawn E Chase) writes...
>Keywords: dealin with atheist
> 
>hi, i'm new to this newsgroup. i have been a christian since mid 1989, and
>lately, i have comeupopn a person who has presented me with some rather
>subversive questions dealing with god. and i dont have the answers for some of
>them, those of which i'm listing here:
> 1. hypothetical situation: let's say that there is a group of people on an
>island who never hear the gospel in their lifetime. they die and go to hell.
>(athiest's question) "is that supposed to be some kind of a just god???"


Those who know not the gospel are judged by their deeds since God judges the
hearts and secrets of men.  [Romans 2:12-16]


> 
> 2. why is accepting Christ any diffe3rent than any other religion, because you
>still have to "do something" to an extent.???   (i tried to explain to him that
>christianity is a relationship, not a religion, in that in religion you are
>striving, doing, trying, having to go it on your own to make it to a farcical
>heaven which is actually hell, but in christianity, you have a personal
>realationship with Christi and He sends the3 Holy Ghost to guide and lead you,
>etc, etc.)
> 

Enough said by you to your friend on this matter, except I believe that 
Christianity is both religion and relationship.  This, in fact, may not make
it any different than any of the others.  Also, there is a requirement to
"do something"--the first being to throw off pride and accept someone other
than your self as lord of your life.  Thereafter, faith and works (which
brings up a long argument in itself) are required.  I personally like
what's said in James 1:27, Mark 12:30-34, Hosea 6:6, and Proverbs 21:3, which
basically says God requires service to others in need above ritual and doctrine.
This will unfortunately be a major condemnation against many people regardless
of denomination for Jesus gives explicitly (without parables) in
 Matthew 25:34-46 his expectations of us as Christians.  Too often, we
get wrapped up in the personal relationship approach to God (which IS very
important), but God expects more!




> 3. what makes the bible any more acceptable than any other 2000 year old book???
>(i tried to explain him how many copies, etc. make the bible more historically
>credible, than , say the Illiad (by homer?)...i got it out of evidence that
>demands a verdict by josh mcdowell, a most excellent dude)!
> 

This question came up with a young man in our Friday night bible studies--Why
should he accept the bible as the one and only authentic Word of God, 
especially given all of the controversy about translations?  Well, this one
question I believe can only be answered on a personal level.  I can only
tell someone why I believe in it--not why HE should believe in it.  Belief in
the bible as the inspired Word of God is the first great leap of faith that
we all must take beyond our intellect and our own understanding.  Intellect
can only take us so far in our relationship with God.  



>  anyways, here are some of the main questions, but the principal one is: WHY
>DOES GOD ALLO SUFFERING AND PAIN IN THIS WORLD? ?? i tried to tell him that satan
>is the ruler of this present world system, because of the adam and eve stuff,
>etc. but the dude just wont accept the bible as credible in the first place. i
>try to explain to him that GOd is not willing that any should perish, but then he
>brings up hypothetical situation number 1 (above). 
> 


Since the bible is our reference book for life and your friend will not believe
what it says, it is probably pointless to reason with him from it.  The
answers that you gave are sufficient for one of faith who would diligently
search the scriptures for the answers.  For one who chooses not to search
the scriptures, your answer is foolishness and the Lord has plenty to say about
such an attitude.


> 
> are there any true bible scholars who read this newsgroup??? if so, i'd really
>appreciate a direct email to my address, or a followup on this news network, as
>i'm sure we've all had and are going to have more runins with atheists. 
> 
>   thanks for any and all who respond...in christ, shawn e chase 1cor 15:57,58...


Shawn,

I'm no bible scholar--just a simple guy who now and then picks up a concordance
to help find a particular bible passage that happened to be on the tip of my
tongue.  I admire your efforts to respond to your friend.  However, I suspect
that the motivation for your friend's questions is not an honest search
for the truth, but an overt attempt to show you how foolish your beliefs are.
The first thing that I do is to accept the premise that my beliefs are
indeed foolish in the eyes of a supposedly sane and rational man.  The 
resurrection of the dead, the translation of the living, beings that can't
be seen, etc--all are beliefs that stretch the senses and the imagination.
But, we BELIEVE!  And, to us this belief in the Word of God brings untold
rewards and stability to our lives.  

Now, you're right about the past and future opportunities to witness to
atheists.  They come about more than you'd think.  When you're a Christian,
people watch what you do to see if you really are what you say you are.
There is no greater opportunity to witness than to be Christ-like in
deed moreso than in word.  What I mean is that--do you get noticeably
frustrated or even angry at your friend's proddings?  Anger is a perfectly
normal emotion, but it's probably what your friend is looking for.  What I
try to do is to have the atheist do some of the work of answering his
own questions such as look up certain scriptures or other references.  If he
is sincere about his search for truth, he'll be willing to some of the work
himself rather than merely allow you to search and answer what you know.
Above all, be willing to say--I don't know, but I'll look it up and get back
with you--rather than defend everything on the spot.  I know that I tend
to get defensive about my beliefs when questioned on the spot.  Lastly, pray
for your friend and tell him that you'll pray for him.  This usually will
either earn you his eternal gratitude or burn him up with amazement at your
seemingly inpertinent comment about his welfare.  The first way may, in fact,
lead him to Christ if he's sincere.  The second way, at least, turns the
tables on an insincere one whose main intention may have been to upset you
anyway.

Tom
t0f7579@tamzeus (Bitnet)
tof7579@zeus.tamu.edu (Internet)