From: wjones@diana.cair.du.edu (WILLIAM D. JONES)
Subject: Re: Moderation (was pentagrams)
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 14:46:43 GMT


(A response to Hal Ravn comments)

M'Lord,

Your points are well taken (Though the "yelling FIRE" very much
exagerates my connotation of "action" I do not include those 
actions that "force" a response from someone i.e. running red
lights because I disagree with the traffic codes.)  You are the 
second to raise the question of the swatica (sp?) I  realize 
that many people have gut reactions to many symbols be they
archaic or modern($).  The events of fifty years ago under-
standably bring to the surface many feelings in many different
people.  But once again I must insist that it is _unreasonable_
for people to vent thier anger for said events on a helpless
geometric figure. The "Fighting words" rulings of recent years
are a travisty of American law.  It is this sort of court action that 
alarms me even more so then small society regulations.  I find  it most 
oppressive to be restricted in such a fashion.  The only damage
that words cause is that which the individual hearing chooses to
inflict on his/her on person.
   The point I wish to make is that every one of us has a
reasponsibility to protect or individual freedoms in every instant of 
everyday.  From the Society to our neighborhoods, we should stand
up for what we believe, allow all others to stand for thier beliefs
join them when we see fit and respect the fact that some don't 
see what we see when we stare at the sunset.
   The world we live in scares me. So many people are worried 
about what they have, what thier neighbor has,what was taken, what was 
given and who is going to win in the end.  The discussion of 
ideals and reality hardly ever meshes closely.  Too many people are rooted
to firmly to the little chunk of reality they have to think about
extending thier property but I like to believe we are all capable
of being resonable under the right circumstances.
   I don't argue the BoD's ruling.  I do feel that, given the
nature of our socity(the big one),  we need to bend with the 
breeze.  I do feel that the motivation for the ruling is something 
we all need to work on.  
  If there are any of you out there who really do find the pentacle or
other such charge offensive, why don't you tell us why here.  And
while you're doing that think about whether or not your arguements
imply that the offending object should be removed or the offense taken
should be.  Living in comfort with one another should be easy.  There
are many examples of great men/women in the past/present who preach/ed
tolerance.  There are many out there who profess to live by such doctrine
In reality there are very few who live up to those words.
  I don't recall exactly who is reasponsible for the following (probably
misquoted) words.  It was one of the men our history books credits for
the formation of this nation (Paine or Adams)
   I don't agree with your words/beliefs but I will defend to my death 
your right to speak/hold them.
  I realize a popular revolution in improbable(impossible? sigh :-( )
but I would rather keep the dream alive then live the life of the
oppressed.  If you are not to prepared to fight or even die for what you
believe I think you're missing the point of existance, if there is such a 
thing. 
  (Next time I think I'll post on a philosophy/political thread.
    sorry to take up your time.) 

      Enjoy Pennsic watch out for each other.
       ( I think the best way to avoid rape is to always travel with 
         a buddy.  It's much better then a knife.  And almost as good
         as a 120 lbs rotty.  Try not to drink to much.  And if you are
         set upon scream like there is no tomorrow.  It is unfortunate
         that such things need be considered but reality infuses itself
         even in our dreams.)]
          
                Thanks for coming,
                      In Service,
                          Hadrian
                Caerthe, The Outlands



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