HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject:      Re: To W. Deng
Reply-To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:09:00 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

The reason I posted my first message is because I did not want to see
political naive people being fooled around. I don't have personal feeling
against ST. No matter who did something like ST had done, I would give
the same treatment.

In 1986 I was totally unprepared. Indeed I was a normal audience listening
other Keda-ers who were giving speeches minutes before I became one of them
and called upon people to demonstrate in streets next day. It was totally
uncertain what the results would be at that time. It did that mainly out
of rage that the Hefei radio distorted what was happening in Keda and
wanted people know the truth. I would not, and did not jeopardize China's
MFN, did not put China to a worse position in negotiating with other nations.
And I did help spread the idea of freedom and democracy in China. I am proud
of What I did at that time, just as I am proud of what I am doing now.
The goal is the same: a better China.

But ST's action is well prepared and ST is fully aware of the consequence.
He knew that his action would further jeopardize China's MFN, make China
more difficult to stop Bush from selling 150 F-16 to Taiwan, attack Bush's
China policy, help Democractic to win the election, etc. But he decided to
go ahead, because he knew that he would get good rewards and low risk. I
have plenty evidence in my economics and political science research and
other sources related to ST's action to support my arguments.

I feel sorry for Hu, Yaobang beacuse my action in 86 movement somehow is
responsible for his downfall. He is a nice guy but not necessary a good
leader for China. His approach is similiar to Gorby's. You like the result
of Gorby's type of reform? But if I did not do that, somebody else would
do that sooner or later. It may be good sooner than later if it is inevitable,
I don't know. It's another topic.

I never get a penney from my participation in demcracy movement, what I got
is being forced to leave Keda before finals are over in 1986 and write
stuff about 86 movement (Jian2 Cha2) for almost two years, and being
infamous here. :-) And CG like me?  The local ACSS turned to be a member
of IFCSS and Send Tong was invited to give a talk when I was the president
of the local ACSS.

Be more sophisticated, use the brain not the feeling when arguing. Am I
controled by someone? Who like to fing "Black Hands" most? CCP. :-)
And who controled me in 86 movement? Zhao, Zhiyang? ;-)

I think it is time to stop talking about ST. You will find what a guy he
really is soon. I am only a independent critic and I am not living on
democracy movement or Chinese government. I just tell what I believe is
ture, no matter you like it or not.

I would love to argue publicly with ST, if he has the gut.

Time will tell everything, remeber what I have said.

See you next time. :-)


William Deng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Bo Xiong <xiong@BSU-CS.BSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [News] PRC Announces Further Loosened Policies on Overseas
              Students
Reply-To: Bo Xiong <xiong@BSU-CS.BSU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:09:12 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

My feeling after reading the People's Daily news is exactly the same as
that of mine when I read it before on same topics:  The further away
(physically and geographically) a Chinese from the Communist party, the
BETTER the party will treat the Chinese.  If the party has NO control of
you, you'll be treated as "superior Chinese", if the party has full control
of you, you are just a piece of Chinese sh*t in the eyes of the CCP!
No wonder there are some Fa-Guo-Nan-Cai guys who stay overseas and
ass kiss CCP :-)

Be serious, the question remains:

Would there be such a "nice, loose and grace" policy towards overseas CSS
WITHOUT the lobby-for/passage-of Protection Bills by CSS in the U.S.A.,
Germany, Japan and Australia, and without the "Lenincy Program" offered to
CSS by Canadian government????

Remember how hard those J-1 students cried for elimination of their
two-year-home-stay-requirement but got nowhere in 1987-1988 in the U.S.
and the Chinese government then even tightened the policy towards
overseas CSS ???

Please don't tell me that it's because of the "reform" in China or "support
Deng for his reform", that kind of garbage doesn't make your visa changed
from J-1 to H-1/F-1/greencard/be able to stay overseas :-)

And, it's really amazing to see some CSS raising their right hands to grab
green card, and raising their left hands to ass kiss CCP/support "Deng's
reform"/paint Deng as an "innocent old man" in June 4th Beijing Massacre.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bo Xiong in Chicago
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: You violate my human rights!
Reply-To: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:47:15 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

> message from T. Bao to CHINA-NT@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
>
> BNN(Business Network News) News (3 Sep 92 19:15 EDT) :
>
> A young man was arrested for taking some stuff from Kmart without payment
> earlier this week.
>
> A group of people who also had some misconducts in Kmart before gathered
> together and protested to the police that they had violated the human rights
> of the young man because he didn't resort violence. He didn't even carried
> a knife with him. He was a nonviolence advocate.
>
> The police said that the young man had violated the law of Kmart so they had
> the obligation to punish the young man to protect the right of Kmart.
>
> [stuff deleted]

This guy is not even a good lier.  Who does he try to fool?  Probably just
none other himself!!  With all the wealth the CCP stealing from the Chinese
people, can't they hire someone who can lie like Yuan Mo and write some decent
English fictions?  Good lord.


Ignatius Ding
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: ldong@hila.hut.fi (Liyun Dong)
Subject: Re:      IFCSS Statement on Shen Tong's Arrest
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:02:00 GMT

In article <BtyJCw.7w1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>
>There is not a clear boundary between violating and not violating.
>Everyone who return or visit China carries some oversea information.
>These include the anti-government (for its murderous 6/4 massacre,
>for example) attitude and opinion. Besides, Shen Tong's activity
  it seems that in China anti-government attitude is not a crime. 
  but anti-government action is a crime. mr. Shen's activity may be 
  considered as an action.
>could also be explained as helping Chinese government on its course
>toward democracy which Chinese government made at least lip service
>for. 
  chinese government may not tolerate this kind of democracy which
  may cause its current leader being out of power. 
>
>I would think Shen Tong's case tells us that if one still have
>"anti-government" thought in his mind, he will be watched if not
>arrested. 
  99 percent of Chinese may have this kind of thought. But they seem
  not worry about being arrested.
>
>But there is a reality. The reality is that 6/4 Massacre is a
>crime, the Chinese government is guilty, some leaders are especially
>guilty. Unless justice is done, there will always be an outcry
  Chinese Government is only guilty by US laws. But US laws does not 
  apply in China. 
>from the people, especially the Chinese people.
  You have your freedom to choose whether to outcry or not.
  I think Mr. Shen is a brave guy. But his action may not be proper.
  (why? it's a long story, and would waste lot of network resources)
  I hope he could be released soon and return to US.
>
>Xiao Li

  Huachen Pan
  Finland

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xc17@quads.uchicago.edu (xiaoyong  chai)
Subject: Re: Forwarding: SHEN Tong's Human Rights
Reply-To: xc17@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:47:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.033616.29670@athena.mit.edu> liu9yong@athena.mit.edu () writes:
>In article <Btz4yv.7E4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Bo Xiong <xiong@BSU-CS.BSU.EDU> writes:
>>The following was posted to talk.politics.china but not china-nt:
>>
>>(I know this forwarding will go back to talk.politics.china, but it's
>> not my fault :-)
>>
>>------------------------- Forwarding Begins -----------------------------
>>Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
>>From: xc17@quads.uchicago.edu (xiaoyong  chai)
>>Subject: Shameful Speculations
>>Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
>>Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:19:35 GMT
>>
>> I finaly saw some sensible posts on this group about Shen Tong's arrest. I
>>did think we would see no sympathy to Shen in this group.
>>
>> A question to all those who seem to have a problem with Shen Tong's plan and
>>"setup", do you believe that it is Shen's fundemantal human right to do
>>what he has done. It is well caculated allright, so what,
>
>funny! Don't you guys still remember that guy who when interviewed, claimed
 ^^^^^^
Well, well , well, is this guy trying to show the net that  he has the most
terrible taste in the world. What so funny about someone else getting arrested
for exercising basic human right?

>his favorite two fundamental [speaking] rights are "fuck you" and "so what"?
>and whose favorite [eating] right "cheese"?
>

Hey, get your point staight (assuming you have one), if you want to making
fun of human right with your sickening joke which  no healthy mind can enjoy, 
why don't you send it to "People's Daily"

>These things just poped into my mind when I read your note.

It may not be a bad thing for you to reveal what will automatically
pop into your  (?) mind.

>
>To be honest, what's the positive impact Shen Tong's act (note, ACT) will have
>on the bettering of China and Chinese?

Does anybody smell a fish here? Somehow I feel party political studying session
just started, I guess you have prepaired a long list which do not better
China Chinese, (not metion CCP though). i.e. 89pro-democracy movement is
one of them,   Let's all follow you sneakily skip the question whether the 
arrest is justified and how to get him released, and starting rerecognizing
how western human right crap will hurt YOUR "China" and YOUR "Chinese"

Nice try! Keep trying!
 
Xiaoyong Chai
From U of Chicago
>
>
>
From: CNEWS@conan.ie.orst.edu
Subject:      Sun Zhong-Shan, Shen Tong, Wong Jin-Wei and others...
Reply-To: CNEWS@conan.ie.orst.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:21:03 GMT
Comments: To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU, CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

> A netter mentioned Tan,Shitong. ST fled just after 6.4 and went by
> with full support of untle Sam exactly when Chinese officers openly
> ask for a better Sino-US relationship, just the opposite to Tan, Shitong.
> What a "hero"! :-)
> Yes, I share Mr.Bao's points.
>
> William Deng
>
  It is nothing wrong to get support or help from foreign friends!
  Mr. Sun Zhong-Shan got full supports from many Janpenese friends, French
  friends and other foreigners, and he was protected by French Embassy when
  CG then wanted to arrested him.  Do you think Mr. Sun was wrong to do it?!
  How about Mr. Fang Li-Zhi, who is your ex-teacher or ex-leader?
  BTW, I have not read any "heroic" comments from you about your great
  leader Mao and CCP, because they got full support of the "Big Brother"
  and worship Marxi.

  You mentioned Wong Jin-Wei and your "heroic" history in 1986.  The first
  part of Wong's life was a hero's life when he tried to assassinate one of
  King's relatives.  He has many famous heroic poems, too.  But his last part
  of life is a life of traitor!  So I recommend you not to mention your
  "heroic" history even if it is true (Be honest I doubt it).  One is
  judged by what he/she is doing right now, not by his/her "heroic" past.

  You accused ST of making the Sino-US relationship in jeopardy.  I think
  ST is lucky because you are not the Judge.  It is obvious who jeopardizes
  the Sino-US relationship.  The ball is at CCP's hand.

  Finally, you are honest when you said "I share Mr.Bao's points".  Do you
  have same feeling with the guy who ate the bread with Mr. Tan's blood, too?

  John Xu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: HE%NIEHS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      response to Mr. W. Dong and Mr. T. Bao's comments
Reply-To: HE%NIEHS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:22:00 GMT

Dear netter:

I have read Mr. Deng and Mr. Bao's comments on the arrest of Shen Tong by the
communist authority, and I am astonished by their comments.  Here, I do not
want to and I do not have the right and the ability to judge whether their
comments are right or wrong, I just want to share some of my feelings with you
and expecially with Mr. Dong and Mr. Bao.

First, both Mr. Dong and Mr. Bao said that Shen Tong had well planned his plan,
and I agree on that.  However, it was not Shen himself, but the communist
authority who had actually realized Shen's plan.  Shen can only make his own

Secondly, the communist authority in Beijing not only broke its own early
promise, but also violated the current constitution by arresting Shen Tong.
Shen did not take in any "anti-revolutionary" or "anti-constitutional"
activities yet before he was arrested by the Beijing authority, eventhough he
might have planned to do so.  Based on the current constitution practised in
China, its citizen has the right and the freedom to establish organizations, to
have meeting or conference.  Shen just wanted to practise his right and
freedom conferred on him by the constitution.

Thirdly and most importantly, the current constitution practised in China is
not writen and has not been approved by the Chinese people, therefore the
constitution is not constitutional.  All versons of the consititution were and
are passed in the so called "People's Congress", but remember all the People's
Congress deputies were and are not elected by the Chinese people, so they could
not, can not and never represent the Chinese people.  As this constitution is
not constitutional and has not been approved by the its people, therefore its
people has no obligation to obbey the contitution.

Fourthly, if that is the case that anyone should be arrested or be executed
because he or she violated any consititution, Chairman Mao and the other
so-called revolutionaries in China must be first arrested or be executed
becasue they first violated the constitution of the Republic of China in 1920s,
30s and 40s.


Petter He
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: lix@BUCRSB.BU.EDU
Subject:      Re:  China's Interests
Reply-To: lix@BUCRSB.BU.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:40:25 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Tong is one of them, and he knows "where is China" (a
>question posted by Mr W. Deng), since he at least knows
>how to get back to there.

Agreed. Shen Tong's getting back there is certainly better planned
than Ge Xun and Mao Jiye's ones. However, I think Ge Xun's returning
was even braver and more positive considering the difference in
timing and background.
From: CNEWS@conan.ie.orst.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's Message
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:55:48 GMT
Reply-To: CNEWS@conan.ie.orst.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

>         At about 7:35 am (ET) this morning, ABC's Good Morning
> America broadcasted a short video message left by Shen Tong before
> he went back to China. "I was a student leader in Tiananmen Square
> in the spring of 1989," he introduced himself, "I will go back to China
> and fight for freedom."  He said "I don't know what will happen to
> me after I go back" on the video tape.
>
> * * * * * * *
>         The quotes aren't exact the original words.

   Please let's know what are the "original words" if you know it.

> And, it looks that it's part of a campaign to encourage people to vote for
> the upcoming elections because it showed a logo at the same time on the
> video having words such as, Vote for the Dream, on it.  I might
> be wrong on this.

   You ARE wrong on this.  It looks like to me that ST's Message has nothing
   to do with the election.  Your logic here is "it showed a logo at the same
   time ...".  Showing two programs at the "same" time does not mean they
   must have something to do with each other.

>  The tape also showed the armed soldiers, tanks, and the fire at that
>  6.4 night.

    What is wrong to show that horrible night repeatedly?  I strongly
    recommend that it should be showed repeatedly on the Chinese TVs too.

    John Xu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Hand NBC an 8-year jail sentence
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:11:42 GMT
Comments: To: soc.culture.china@archive.cis.ohio-state.edu

Great, Beijing Daily has finally followed IFCSS' call.

Beijing Daily has convicted NBC for rumor muggling.
NBC should have not forgotten that Xiao1 Bin1 was
sentence for an 8 year in jail for spreading
rumors in the summer of 1989.  Yes, put NBC in the reform through
labor camp and force it to produce US-bound export goods.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Beijing Daily Rips U.S. Media's Olympic Coverage .................... 42
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
~From: A CND Reader
Source: UPI 8/26/92

[UPI 8/26/92] BEIJING -- An official Chinese newspaper assailed the U.S.
media Wednesday for "slanderous" coverage of Chinese athletes during the
Barcelona Olympics.

The state-run Beijing Daily accused U.S. journalists of spreading "rumors"
that Chinese athletes used performance-enhancing drugs, allowing China to
win events previously dominated by Americans.

"American journalists, harboring evil intentions, spread the slanderous
rumors that Zhuang Yong used stimulants," said an article by a commentator
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Zhang Yun Fei <zhang@BUAST7.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Protest in San Francisco and Shen Tong's "set-up"
Reply-To: Zhang Yun Fei <zhang@BUAST7.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:05:23 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

That is great,  With William Deng and T. Bao join hands together in yet another
show of cool-bloodship! While accused other of "set-up" blah blah, T. Bao's
message actually served as a very good self-portrait to his character and
political skillfulness/dirtyness (the word in his own message). Therefore,
instead of outrage, I am grateful to T.Bao for his self-exposure.
However, if T. Bao as well as William Deng wants to get "famous" or
get "promoted", then this is a wrong place as the rest of netters are
not (and will not be) impressed by your cold-bloodship. Of course, it
will be another story if you are using your self-exposure here to get "famous"
and "promoted" somewhere else. But we won't care if you do.

As for William Deng's childish game of clearing his infamous name, I would
like to remind William Deng that your past would help you too much as who knows
where your self-depicted heroic history comes from, at least as a KeDa alumnus
I am never being able to confirm your glorious history from anyone I know of.
Maybe your definition of Keda people is again different. Maybe we could hope
the Public Security Bureau will confirm it for you ASAP. But, to me, it is
not so important what your past is. Rather, I am concerned the fact that you
are pretty active in a few of CSS organizations here in U.S. at present time
and even was elected to be a board member (though with your Chinese name).
Hope you won't use your present title(s)/holding to denounce those CSS
organizations in a future time when you could get a better offer. Hope my
concern on this aspect could also serve as an remind to those CSS friends
who are working with our dear William Deng nowadays.

William Deng wrote the following:

>	To clear my name and avoid further personal attack, I have to reveal
> some of my previous activities so you could judge whether I am qualified to
> call myself a demcracy-fighter:
>	In 1986 students movement, I was the first guy in the whole movement
> who stood up to call students to demonstate in the street. When: Dec.4,1986.
> Where: School hall of USTC (KeDa), Hefei. Audience: almost all KeDa people.
> I was also a major organizer of the first demonstation in the 86 movement
> which was held on Dec.5,1986 in Hefei, Anhui, and a major dialogue
> representative to have dialogue with officers held in the Anhui provincial
> headquarter at the same day.
>
> William Deng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zhuge@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Zhuge Zhang)
Subject: old classmate
Originator: zhuge@vvcs
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:49:08 GMT

Hello !
I am Zhuge Zhang.

I attended No. 2 Middle School of East China Normal University from 1982 to
1988, then Shanghai Fudan University from 1988 to 1992 in Computer Science
Department.  I am now studying in Computer Science Dept of Vanderbilt 
University in Nashville, Tennessee, U. S. A..

My old classmates please contact me now.
Or anyone who know such persons please tell me at once.

Here is my address:
	2014 Bernard Cr N. #1
	Nashville, TN 37212
		(615)385-4055

	Email:	zhuge@vuse.vanderbilt.edu

Surname:	Zhuge
First Name:	Zhang
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xc17@quads.uchicago.edu (xiaoyong  chai)
Subject: Re: response to Mr. W. Dong and Mr. T. Bao's comments
Reply-To: xc17@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:07:53 GMT

Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Keywords: 
If someone tells me it's going to take years to deal with this type of ill
logic, I 'll buy it .

>Is Mr. Shen still a Chinese citizen? Has he got approvement from Chinese 
>government before setting up his office which is in essence a political
>organization? 
>Even though you don't agree with the laws of China, you still have to obey 
>them before they are changed. You can challenge the law by legitimate ways,
>though, such as lobbying. 

This guy believes that Chinese people deserve to be strangled by this communist
type of "catch-22". got it? your trick has been figured out by  the entire
human race for couple of decades now. Where is your new stuff?
Let's play you own trick with yourself, what do you think about the possibility
of get approved from your CG to set up an organization to alter "challenging the
law by leg. way or lobby" slightly from a sheer impossibility and then change 
the law to make the setting up an organization a little bit from a sheer 
impossibility, hey , it looks like you are directing us to a 
non-dead-end route, don't tell us you cannot follow the logic here, you are 
too familiar with your catch

>
>Consider you are an American citizen. If you don't like abortion, you
>can apply for a protest. But if you block the abortion clinic, you will

Who are you kidding, what is wrong with  setting up a fundation to campaign
eventually outlawing the abortion. how does your logic apply? 

>be arrested. That simple, isn't it?
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Watch your language, pal?  You are no American specialist
 

<stuff deleted>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china