From: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: dawkins/_the selfish
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:37:30 EST
Reply-To: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Hello, Warren!  How are you?  I noticed your reply to Mark Sornson, where
you wrote (in part):

In <1992Aug7.100139#IASTATE.EDU>, kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub)
writes:
>In article <1992Aug5.192552.7955#e2big.mko.dec.com>, news@illusn.enet.dec.com
>(Mark Sornson) writes:
>>         If I expressed any personal disatisfaction with something that was
>>     written in public, it may give someone the satisfaction of knowing that
>>     I'm not just gulping things down without thinking; but I try to keep my
>>     own opinions in perspective, that being that I think that what the
>>     Watchtower Society writes, when taken as a whole, is very valuable, and
>>     that the value of their literature by far outweighs the flaws that any
>>     nit-picker can find.
>
>  Of course, we know how accurate their information on blood transfusions is.
>When they are not misattributing or quoting out of context they are just putting
>down numbers that never appear in their references.

I'd appreciate a good example of this.  I find the scholarship excellent,
personally; for example, in the 32-page booket "How Can Blood Save Your
Life?"  I've seen many people accuse us of selective and extracontextual
quoting, but a good counterexample is this booklet's appendix.  It
consists of two articles reproduced in full (no possibility of being
accused of selective quoting) from very highly respected medical journals:

    "Jehovah's Witnesses - The Surgical/Ethical Challenge"; The
    Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), November 27,
    1981, Volume 246, No. 21, pp 2471-2.

    "Blood:  Whose Choice and Whose Conscience?" by J. Lowell Dixon,
    M.D.; The New York State Journal of Medicine, 1988; 88:463-464.

These are both excellent articles from respected sources.  I would really
appreciate it if you would take the time to locate the originals in a
nearby library (you should be able to get something as high-profile as
JAMA just about anywhere) and take a few minutes to read them; they're
only a few pages apiece.

Many of the most respected names in the field (such as Dr. Denton Cooley)
have long treated Jehovah's Witnesses without blood for major surgery and
have also been supportive of the medical soundness of our stand.  For
instance, that first source (JAMA 1981;246:2471-2472) reads, in part:

    "In 1977, Ott and Cooley[9] reported on 542 cardiovascular
    operations performed on Witnesses without transfusing blood and
    concluded that this procedure can be done `with an acceptably low
    risk.'  In response to our request, Cooley recently did a
    statistical review of 1,026 operations, 22% on minors, and
    determined `that the risk of surgery in patients of the Jehovah's
    Witness group has not been substantially higher than for others.'"

The cited source is given as:

    [9] Ott DA, Cooley DA:  Cardiovascular surgery in Jehovah's
    Witnesses.  JAMA 1977;238:1256-1258

As of 1990, I understand Dr. Cooley has now performed 1,106 intricate
heart and vascular surgical operations without using blood.  Besides the
fact that he is internationally known by professional reputation, would
you not agree that he speaks from a real depth of experience?  Experience,
really, that is far more extensive than yours or mine?

Warren, these are highly respected sources which are publicly favourable.
However, leaving that aside, I really am concerned that you believe our
information on transfusions is `inaccurate, misattributed, quoted out of
context, putting down numbers that never appear in their references.'  To
feel so strongly about this, you must have seen many clear-cut examples.
Would you post a few so we can see them too?  I know it can be a bit of
typing, but I really would appreciate seeing the support for such a
contention, because really it is a serious contention after all.

Thanks again for writing, I really enjoyed reading your article!

Take care,

Herb

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