From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: Who cares
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:37:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.234703.41878@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>
>Jeff, this reminded me of something.  It was something said by a black
>woman.  She worked a lot with both a women's rights group, and a Black
>rights group.   She was asked (by one group or both, I don't remember)
>where her loyalty was, with the Black rights group, or the women's
>rights group.  Her answer was something like this...
>
>"It would be nice if I were opressed for being black one half of the
>week, then oppressed for being women the other half."
>
>Her point, she was oppressed for both all the time.  
>
>My point, many people who are activists for one thing or another, work
>for more than one thing, and most often for the good of people in
>general.   
>
>It is hard to get everything at once, and cary any force, you have to
>pick some specifics and work for them, then move on to the next. 

I don't doubt this at all.

>> IMHO, <IYFAO> would fair better if they could demonstrate that by
>> making the changes they are fighting for, the American public would
>> derive some benefit.  For example, gay rights activists could show that
>> by accepting people for what they are, regardless of sexual
>> orientation, the American public dErives some benefit.  The same goes
>> for women's activists, African-American activists, etc., etc. etc.
>> Perhaps that message is being put out -- but it doesn't come through
>> very clearly, at least not to me.  And, unfortunate as it may be, I'm
>> the type of guy <IYFAO> is trying to reach.
>
>That is a lovely idea, and one I use to espouse, but it just isn't
>going to happen any day soon.  Many people feel they have a divine
>right, even responsibility to oppress such groups.   I think those
>groups would love it if the "good for you too" idea could be accepted,
>but it just doesn't work that way.  So they shoot for the next best
>thing, legal protection and legal rights.   That unfortunatelyy calls
>for specifics. 

I guess I am naive.  I believe in the basic goodness of all people:
men, women, black, white, hispanic, asian, gay, straight, whatever.  I
believe all people have it in their hearts to do good.  If not, I guess
the concept of original sin has to come in to play.

>It is hard to lead by example when you are afraid to walk out your
>front door, when you have to remain closeted to keep your job, your
>family.  Or when your just SOL because your XX and the XY's in power
>won't let you up.  Example Shmample.  When your people are dying at
>the hands of the empowered its real useless to say "ah, but wouldn't
>it be great if we could just love one another."  No you either cower
>in fear or you get out in the street and scream bloody murder.   Maybe
>some compassionate few will listen, and help you in your plight. 
>
>The native americans preached peace and love, harmony with neighbors.
>They backed off, making room for the Europeans, letting the settle.
>-The European's need more land.  Let us give them more land.  Until
>the Europeans took almost everything away, creating destruction
>wherever they went. 

Yes, and this occurred more years ago than I can count.  It was
unfortunate, disgraceful, and wrong.  But, what can we do now?  Pack
all people of European descent onto boats and back to their country of
origin?  No.  However, we can all benefit by showing the American
society at-large how the heritage of Native American peoples enriches
our lives every day.

>Looking back I don't know how it could have gone any different.  If
>the XX's and the Gays, and the Blacks, and the whoever just said peace
>and love, lets live in harmony, the White Men in power would give them

I believe you are trivializing what I said.  I don't believe I said
"let's all just live in love and harmony."  Anyways, my intent was for
<IYFAO> to show the contributions made to society by people of their
particular interest.  Society can then see the benefits of having
gender-, race-, religion-, sexual preference-, etc. -blind policies,
and how all people gain from it.  People must be shown how they will
benefit, otherwise it will be a very hard sell.  (I'm not saying it's
right -- I'm saying that's the way it is.)

>oppressed have more power more leverage.  When they yell in pain,
>others listen, and the White Men feel pressured.  They do something,
>anything, to keep their power, they make concessions.  And slowly the
>oppressed gain their rights.  
>
>Sheesh, it would make Marx proud, a little bit of communism at work. 
>
>I use White Men, not to mean all XY's without color (you and me for
>instance) but rather to mean the Old Boys sitting above the glass
>ceiling, who are almost exclusively European Males, at least here in
>the US.  Also those who exploit their European heriatage and Y
>chromosome in a manner that harms others, usually in alliance with
>those above the glass ceiling. 

The point is, the glass ceiling *is* changing, IMHO.  Perhaps not
quickly enough to suit some folks, but it is changing.  Let's hope it
continues.

Regards,

Jeff H...
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