Newsgroups: austin.public-net
Subject: Various Responses
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Summary: 
Reply-To: ashcraft@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Ashcraft)
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Distribution: austin
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
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Follows are multiple unthreaded responses.

Chris P wrote:

:Well, even still, it's the principle of the "bean counter" that I object to.

I agree.

:Hmm... I don't see it as a terribly big deal not having SLIP.  I still hold
:that few people have any real need for it, and I can speak from experience
:that V.32bis is the ABSOLUTE minimum to get acceptable performance.  Even
:then, it's not terribly smooth.  CSLIP runs a bit better, but I've found that
:V.42bis compression isn't much good, as it only increases the "jerkiness"
:problem.

Well personally, as one of the privileged few, I think SLIP, Ethernet,
or a fiber link would be a necessity.  Now, I am running on a DOS 386
box with a Worldport modem using winqvt in windows over DOS 5.  SLIP,
once configured is wonderful.  I can open separate sessions in
windows, cut and paste, read newsgroups in a window, mail in another,
be working in Word and if a message comes in, I'm notified and asked
if I want to read it, NeXT and Macs are even better with SLIP.  The
downside is file transfers with all the overhead is awful.  Jerky
sometimes depending on the other end.  But I think SLIP would be a
great idea.

Point being that it is something that would attract folks to such a 
Public System.  Interconnectivity is the issue.  Also, that many folks
have systems now in there homes that can do SLIP now and want it as access
to the internet. It also could be a way to allow a start of interconnecting
other machines here in town.

UT Network operations has successfully put a system which has, I 
believe, about 200 possible SLIP connections or XRemote connections. 
I can't imagine any using anything less than SLIP.  Now Chris P. I believe has 
said that a SUN 380 can only support about nine SLIP connections 
before it crawls.  At this point we don't even have a SUN.  This is possibly
not the current reality. It should though be part of the near term design.

The other reality is to provide the masses with an easy interface and I
believe that APN MUST be connected to the MATRIX to be of any value. 
If this only means having a link via gopher to plug in from home.  A
minimum beginning to Connect*Austin. We must be able to telnet into APN.

Also, least we forget the metro fiber ring which is the longer term
goal of the organization.  JonQ and Smoot's Tic.com is plenty fast
via the internet so I can't help but think that some hybrid between
UT Network operations access and tic.com's speed would work for starters.
There will of course be the Public sites, and lesser needs for others whom
could care less for a GUI faster SLIP connection.  Not I!  


Bob wrote:

: (1) A shell account on a UNIX machine that you dial up.

	Absolutely an option from the get go possibly after
	a validation tier? If we have folks willing to timely verify?
	
: (2) A menu on a UNIX machine that you dial up.
 
	As an option and beginning start up screen.	
	The WELL has this sort of thing.

: (3) A SLIP or PPP extension to your local operating system.

	Yes as previously described.
	
: (4) Telekinesis and astral projection.

	Well if you jack in to the MATRIX, virtually you
	are, therefore you am.
	
Max wrote on Internet:

:I still don't get it. If we pay someone then our traffic is considered
:acceptable use, but if someone gives us a connection then it is not 
:acceptable use?

Does become a paradox.  It seems more fear based.  Like Dell could
fire, keep 'em employees in line because they value there job, or 
professionally present themselves in an R&D manner, disclaim themselves
or something like that.  It would be embarrassing possibly if someone
did something awful and they provided a link under their connection
agreement. But Dell could support APN. If we choose Sesquinet we could 
link the same way as we might have through Dell's link and they could even
perhaps house the Hardware just as long as there wasn't any liability
for/through them. This would have to be negotiated between Sesquinet and APN.
We would have to indemnify Dell of any liability, but perhaps possible. APN
would have to become a member of Sesquinet.  It all is stuff that lawyers
have to figure out but always possible.  Perhaps Apple might support APN
when they slowly settle here.  They have for years supported 
interconnectivity of non-profits.  I think Dell would be fortunate to
get in on this from the ground floor as long as it's a win/win thing.

BTW: Sesquinet policy seems not to exist in writing anywhere.  I've 
requested it but never received a reply.  Just must of been zapped
out of memory. I've looked everywhere too:(  Cathy, anyone ever seen it?

:Businesses can connect to the net, but the Austin Public Net can not
:because it is too commercial? 

No, more like fear that someone out of the loop of Dell might
jeopardize their connection.  I wasn't at the meeting and again 
Sesquinet doesn't put their minutes up so I can't say.  Being
a state entity though, Sesquinet's minutes are legally available
for review.

:Am I the only one that thinks something is not right here?

Nah, it's just corporate fear:) and elite groups of power who
fear the public.  Could you imagine if everyone had access, 
the thing would crawl:) Chris kill's routers just experimenting
with video:))  Reality is we are doing it NOW.

:Yes, at the rates that Jay is proposing it would have to be publicly 
:funded, which is not a bad idea. The government funds infrastructure 
:like roads that we all use. Why not prepare for the future and fund 
:data highways so that all will have access?

Well, George also had something to say about this, I'm sure this is
possible but I wouldn't want to end up with a mess like the Austin
Cable Commission or or Austin Music Commission where they have for 10
years been trying to get an Austin Music Channel or even another
access channel. Or the eight year KOOP/KTSB battle for a new public
radio station.  These type of things are impossible to get anything
done.  Did you know that the City Commissions have spent three times
the amount on consulting than it would have cost to build a light
rail.  Maybe Clinton/Gore will be in favor of such a thing dispite a
300+ trillion deficit this year:) Donations are acceptable Now, maybe
we can be a taxing entity later.:)

Bill Woodword wrote:

;Just and idea (that has probably been discussed before, but WTH).  Is 
;there any reason a Public Net couldn't be funded like PBS is funded, 
;with contributions coming from both corporate and individual contributions, 
;with pledge drives, etc.  I realize that not everyone would be able to 
;contribute money to net access, but neither can everyone contribute to 
;PBS.  But the people who can, do.

YES I guess internally we could have an internal wallop/talk solicitation
drive, though distrurbing or a Prodigy type thing ala ascci, similar to
the Monochrome BBS out of the UK. Wherein you get a split screen info
thing every time you change space in a menu. Always possible four times 
a year for a week but I don't know how feasible.
 
Though it brings issues of Acceptable Use of USENET, checks can be
currently made to Austin Public Net and you can receive a tax-deductible
contribution for such deduction as we are currently tax deductible under
the Alternative Networks Inc. 

Equipment or in-kind contributions may also be made and deducted, or you
can just crush the stuff:) or give it to us for a deduction that can
serve the community.

If you wish to you can mail your checks to 204 West 44th, Austin, Tx 78751
or email me, Chris, or Bob about equipment you wish to donate.  My e-mail
address is ashcraft@ccwf.utexas.edu  Make checks out to Austin Public Net.
Even if we can't use the equipment some how, we could an auction. 

:One way to promote it is to show that you could contribute a sum lower
:than a yearly rate with a more commercial company and still get more
:services.

Well the only thing here is that like auctions on public TV stations,
you can only deduct the difference above the actual market value.
Memberships are another issue.

Later,

Jay Ashcraft
Newsgroups: austin.public-net,austin.general