HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:05:49 EDT
From:         "Paul J. Bodin" <pjb3@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Is NB4 (much) slower?
Comments: To: Nota Bene List <NOTABENE%TAUNIVM@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Teun A. van Dijk writes:

> Since I have been working with NB4 I have the impression that the video
> is much slower: even typing text, the cursor seems sluggish, and when at
> the end of the screen lines must move up, they do so with visible delays.
> Same for other operations that involve the screen. Is this because of the
> fancy video/graphics footwork we now have (I don't even use the special
> graphics mode, which does not seem to feature the 850 code page which I
> use so that I can make portuguese dead accents with ~ and others with '
> and accent-grave that are not in PC8). If I am right that video (refresh
> rates?) are slower, what can I do? (either in NB4, or are there special
> programs or cards that speed up video operations and are compatible with
> NB4?).

First, NB4 (just like NB3) is a pure text mode application.  It
performs no graphics footwork, everything is managed in character/text
mode.  The foreign language font support operates by loading an
alternate font description in video memory that your video card uses
instead of the font description built into its ROM for text mode.
There should be no difference in speed--it sounds as if you may be
using some system-level software that is affecting video and keyboard
I/O or perhaps conflicting with NB's management of those functions.

There is no special graphics mode in NB4, as I say, but you *can*
unload NB4's own fonts and palette by using the [Ctrl] + [Alt] + [Esc]
key combination.  You can later reload them with [Ctrl] + [Esc].

___________________________________________________________________________
Paul J. Bodin                         Internet: pjb3@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Union Theological Seminary               smail: 435-52nd Street
(718) 439-3549                                  Brooklyn, NY 11220
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 92 14:47:56 IST
From:         "J-P Takala, University of Helsinki, Sociology" <JTAKALA@FINUHA>
Subject:      Re: graphics and unwanted form feeds
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


I also found that a program calleed Graph-in-the-Box, which came
bundled with our SPSS/PC, cooperatively produces graphics files
without FFs if you so wish.
I don't know whether I can resist calling up the Harvard Graphics
dealer who suggested that I update my tools (meaning the word processor)
and thank him for the advice.
Graph-in-the-Box is not perfect, though, at least I cannot get it
behave under Desqview.
Still Arthur Morgan may be pointing to a step that many of us will
have to take: Ventura or Pagemaker or another such monster is probably
needed for better control.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:03:39 DST
From:         "Nicolai Winther-Nielsen" <INNWN@VM2.UNI-C.DK>
Subject:      Re: NBI and fax no.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              9 Sep 92 14:02:32 CDT from <RBETTS@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>


The NBI fax I used a couple of months ago was 2123340845.
I suppose this still holds.
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:36:00 MET
Comments:     Sent using PMDF-822 V3.0, routing is done by SARA5
From:         VANDIJK@ALF.LET.UVA.NL
Subject:      Is NB 4.0 slower than NB 3.1?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


Itamar, thanks for your explanations about what happens (with video etc.)
when one shells out to DOS. Only I don't use Lingua, and no NBLINGUA.FTN
is used, nor do I use Hercules, or whatever, but the built in graphics
card of IBM PS 70.

As for my impressions on speed. I checked and compared a couple of
things in 4.0 and 3.1. Since I don't know how to time in seconds in
NB, I had to do it (roughly) by hand (with a good clock):

(1) I made a 300K file consisting of the repeated sentence "This is
a test file", and did the following things both in 4.0 and 3.1:

(a) Changed (cia) This by That: about 10 seconds in both 4.0 and 3.1.
(b) Paged through it with Page Down (Page line on): 7 seconds in both.
(c) Went through it with Arrow Down: 2 min and 15 sec in both.
(d) Ctrl-End: 1-2 seconds in both.
(e) Saved on disk: 4 sec in 3.1 and 5-6 seconds in 4.0
(f) Saved in RAM: 2 sec in 3.1. and 2-3 seconds in 4.0
(g) Called from disk: 4 sec in 3.1 and 6 sec in 4.0
(h) Called from RAM: 2-3 sec in 3.1 and 3 sec in 4.0

In sum: Only saving/calling the file seems to be somewhat slower in
4.0 on these rough tests.

(2) I wrote a little XPL program that would write a 1000 times "This is a test f
   file" plus a number (this involves using values, and test how fast the screen
    responds to the program...): It took about 3 min and 20 seconds in 3.1 and
nearly 5 minutes in 4.0. This suggests that 4.0 is somewhat slower here,
but this should be tested more carefully.

In sum: My impressions are only partly confirmed, by rather small
margins. More professional testing needs to be done, although the
"feel" of speed (after years of using 3.0/3.1) is of course also a
good subjective measure, which needs responses about the experiences
of other 4.0 users.

Something quite different: If I want a directory I call with DIR
on the command line to stay (as in 3.1) and not disappear after
another file is called, what do I do (useful for instance to call
or delete files from the directory listing, without going through
the menu.).?

Teun A. van Dijk
University of Amsterdam
Program of Discourse Studies
210 Spuistraat
1012 VT Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
Phone: +31-20-525.3834 (office)
Phone: +31-20-6.27.37.47 (home --after 14 hrs)
FAX:   +31-20-525.3052 (office)
FAX :  +31-20-639.1727 (home)
E-mail: teun@alf.let.uva.nl

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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:50:26 EDT
From:         "Wayne A. Meeks" <WMEEKS@YALEVM>
Subject:      fear of the eschaton
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

After all these months of longing, now that some people (they SAY) have
actually SEEN NB 4.0 cum Lingua, I am suddenly seized by a new dread: will I
dare to install it when it comes?
The problem is that the book manuscript (some 400 pp.) for which I so
desperately wanted 4.0 has in the meantime been finished--in 3.1 with SLS.
Now comes all the tinkering and editing--but will 4.0 and Lingua really be
able to handle those files without some cumbersome translation?  Will I be
able to generate a table of contents and a bibliography (using IBID)?  Or will
I be best off (especially considering all the bugs that some users are
reporting on this list) just leave the upgrades in the box, saving them for
the next (if any) manuscript?
I shall be grateful for comments from any who have actually used 4.0 to work
on files made with 3.1 and SLS--especially if there is anyone out there who,
like me, still uses an XT clone that's almost as slow as NBI.

Wayne A. Meeks
Department of Religious Studies
Yale University
wmeeks@yalevm.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 16:04:22 CDT
From:         "Richard J. Betts" <RBETTS@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      NB4 and Ibid.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

For whomever else may be having trouble loading Ibid. with NB4, I learned some-
thing useful from NB Informatics today.  They promptly returned my call on this
problem and told me that I should have received disks with the files needed to
load Ibid.  Upon checking they discovered that although I own a legit copy of
Ibid. I was not so recorded in their database and that is why I didn't receive
the appropriate files.  They are supposed to be sending a disk immediately.
Why my purchase of Ibid. wasn't written to my name I don't know, although I
suspect it may have to do with the fact that I had it bought by my university
when I was flush with money from a grant.  The person who helped me indicated
that they had other customers with the same problem, and the solution is to
contact them.
Richard J. Betts
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 92 14:46:02 EDT
From:         Robert Braham <RMB@CUNYVMS1>
Subject:      Re: Multitaskers
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

>From: "Paul J. Bodin" <pjb3@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>

>of memory.  OS/2 also requires 15 to 30 megs of hard disk space
>(depending upon what services you install), although some of that can
>be recouped by removing DOS and Windows from the disk after you have
>achieved a stable system configuration.

You can get rid of DOS and still run DOS apps under OS/2?

Robert Braham
Graduate School of the City University of New York
Internet: RMB@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 92 01:40:08 EST
From:         Michael Obuchowski <BELL@NYSPI>
Subject:      Re: Ibid and Notabene4
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              10 Sep 92 12:43:11 -0400 from <icj@NEXUS.YORKU.CA>

First about the size: NB4 with Ibid & Ibid Plus takes about 2.8MB

Second, about Ibid/Ibid Plus installation.  The installation is very
straightforward.  Problems may occur afterwards with accessing your
bibliography.  I found out that not many  people have received NB4 with
Ibid & Ibid Plus so far (of course I might be wrong).  Over the next few
days I am going to try to reconstruct the process I followed and post it on the
list.  If you have a more urgent & specific question, you can contact me
via my Internet address MICHALO@NEWSCHOOL.EDU

                                                 Michael
From: RMB@CUNYVMS1 (Robert Braham)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
Subject: Re: Usefullness of Ibid.
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:25:21 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>From: Joel Lidov <JBLQC%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>

>I can offer one suggestion for using IBID to manage bibliographies, and
>I hope it will encourage other users to offer more efficient methods.

[rest of letter deleted]

Thanks for an interesting and useful post.  It is _these_ kinds
of questions--not so much on how, technically, to get something
done, but how best to go about using the information technology,
that is sometimes most daunting, or causing of inefficiences
(garbled word choice, but you get my drift).

I have a number of similar questons/answers(?) re efficient
use of Orbis--efficient for _my_ style of writing, note-taking,
drafting, etc., and possibly for others--that I would like to
pursue on this list.  I am holding off starting a thread
(what I hope will turn into a thread) for a few weeks/months (!)
untill Orbis is generally delivered and can make some claims
to stability.

I will try your method w/ Ibid.  I must say, over the last
few years, I was annoyed at handling subsets all the time,
and, even though it was a pain in the butt to change paths
right and left, and at bootup (uneccesary in NB4, which allows
easy selection of multiple bibs), I simply created a new
bibliography for each project, transferred over overlapping
items, and didn't even bother putting index deltas, extracting,
and generating, when it came time; I just generated the whole
database and called it a day.  Of course this defeats
one of the prime raison d'etre (what is plural raison in French?)
of a database, but again, it's what your needs are at the moment,
in addition to the technological tools available.

Things seem to get a little more complicated re work processes
w/ Orbis . . . .

Robert Braham
Graduate School of the City University of New York
Internet: RMB@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:13:00 EDT
From:         "Ada_W.Finifter" <FINIFTER@MSU>
Subject:      Re: grants and margins
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I haven't installed NB4 yet so I'm following this discussion with interest.
This choice between "printer" and "program" is confusing.  If you answer
"program" to where control of the printer should lie, this means you give up
software control via print commands??
From: DICK@SIENA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
Subject: Columns
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:59:21 GMT
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I just finished a brochure in landscape with three equal width columns.
Although using landscape is easier in NB4, the columns still leave much to be
desired! The cursor control leads readily to cursing. There is little
predictability in the way the cursor behaves. I think it would be preferable to
have only one column on display at a time and to toggle between columns like
windows (windettes?). The way the three columns disappear into each other with
a hyperactive cursor to boot is virtually psychedelic (spelling?, where's my
checker when I need it?)
        Michael Dick
        Dick@Siena
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:21:28 PDT
From:         Janice Tanche <USERTANC@UBCMTSG>
Subject:      Has NB4 arrived in Canada yet?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


I'm curious as to whether any of the Canadian NB users on the list have
received their upgrade yet?  I'm still anxiously anticpating its arrival
and it's getting hard to be patient with all this correspondence regarding
NB4 and IBID on the list...Is our postal service really this bad do you
think?

Janice Tanche
University of British Columbia, Canada
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 92 23:42:42 IST
From:         "Michael J." <JASPER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Color palette
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

James Woolley-

If you want to have two print modes in the same color - normal and underline-
you need to go into the color palette and change the colors so there are
two distinct bars of the same color. Then choose one for one print mode,
and one for the other. As for a black background, that should be no sweat,
just have one black bar in the palette, and use that for background choices.
Oh yeah - you may have to make your color choices for print modes by
going to the "full" menu, rather than the quick background/foreground
settings.

Michael Jasper
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Subject: (no subject given)
Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 92 20:55:53 EDT
From:         "Paul J. Bodin" <pjb3@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Comments: To: Nota Bene List <NOTABENE%TAUNIVM@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

J. P. EARLS writes:

> Could someone out there send me full command to Listserv for temporarily
> stopping mail to my address?  In my Beginner's Guide, I have NOMAIL/MAIL
> noted for purposes of temporary stoppage, unstoppage; however, however I
> send NOMAIL, I get no results.

I happened to notice, professor Earls, that you sent the correct
command but you sent it to the list instead of to the listserver
address.  When you send these commands to NOTABENE@TAUNIVM.BITNET they
are distributed to the list as mail and have absolutely no effect.  It
is only when they are sent to the listserver, LISTSERV@TAUNIVM.BITNET,
that they can be implemented.

I noticed that several of our colleagues made this slip this summer
when they went on vacation.  We should all bear carefully in mind the
difference between the list itself and the listserver...

___________________________________________________________________________
Paul J. Bodin                         Internet: pjb3@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Union Theological Seminary               smail: 435-52nd Street
(718) 439-3549                                  Brooklyn, NY 11220
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 92 04:45:25 IST
From:         "Michael J." <JASPER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      RE:counters
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Well, just to confuse this some more, I'll throw in an oddball occurence
just a couple days before my thesis was due a while back:
I had used counters with labels for producing a table of contents, lists
of tables, etc. When I generated said TOC, and lists, numbers were often
off by 1 - 1 too high, even though the actual counter numbers on screen
and in the printout were correct. Somehow the program extracted things wrong
and ended up with incorrect page numbers and table numbers in the front
matter. I have no idea why -- at that point I was near suicide (or murder,
whichever came first) and decided to just correct the suckers by hand and
be done with it. Clearly there is a glitch in the counters somewhere.

Wanna bet it's still there in 4.0?

Michael "A wee bit cynical today but I'll be better when the grant is in" J.
Jasper@helix.mgh.harvard.edu
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 92 14:42:15 EDT
From:         Robert Braham <RMB@CUNYVMS1>
Subject:      Re: arrival
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

>From: Jerry Walsh <WALSHJ%SJUVM.BITNET@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>
>NB4, Orbis, and Lingua have also arrived in New York (at least the de-
>partmental copy has; personal copy not yet).  For comparative purposes,
>I list here disks (5.25 inch), files, and dates.  NOTE THE COMPLETION
>DATES of some of these files.  They are later than some of the arrivals
>announced on this list.  (Dates are in month/day/year format.)

[file names/dates omitted]

Thanks for an informative and helpful posting.  Should help clarify
who's on first.

Robert Braham
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
Internet: RMB@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 92 09:35:00 EST
From:         INTENTBD@UTOROISE
Subject:      Re: SIEBERT'S BEARD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I hope that David Hesla hasn't launched us into a game of trivial hirsute.

Brian Durell
University of Toronto
intentbd@utoroise
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:16:38 IST
From:         "Michael J." <JASPER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Top Margins
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Michael Ossar-

The top margin problem is definitely new to NB 4.0, and not a Desqview
problem, either. I get the feeling that they have changed the relationship
of Top Margin, Header, Page Length and form depth in this version.
If I read it correctly, the menu screen under layout-Text Length suggests
a different meaning to these commands then was true under 3.0. That is,
if I remember correctly, page length used to include the top margin, but
the new screen seems to suggest that top margin is in *addition* to
the Page Length. I could be confused, though. I'm definitely confused.
I could be wrong. In any case, the top margin command didn't work right.
There may be some subtle intelligence going on here, or it may be just a
bug. (I'd put money on the latter and I'm not a betting man).

Michael Jasper
jasper@helix.mgh.harvard.edu
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:22:21 IST
From:         "Itamar Even-Zohar, Porter Chair of Semiotics" <B10@TAUNIVM>
Subject:      Updates
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I have updated

nb-ibd01.zip -- Teun van Dijk's updated bib-ibid.exe program
nb-lng01.zip -- Teun van Dijk's FINDKEYS.TUN for NB4 keyboard
                customization.

These files are on taunivm only for the moment. I will soon
try to upload them to simtel20 (with '02' for a more recent version...).

Itamar

Please consider this 'a temporary update', in view of the urging needs
for NB4.


Itamar E-Z
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Original_To:  Jnet%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM"
Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 92 18:23:00 EST
From:         DICK@SIENA
Subject:      RE: Import SLS to Lingua
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I had problems in NB4 Lingua with 2 columns, one Greek, the other Hebrew. I
couldn't display them on the screen properly so that I could edit them. Rebecca
of NBI suggested that for editing I change the pitch of the Hebrew and Greek
and that solved the problem. When I went to print I changed back to the
standard pitch of the document. I can't remember know whether I went up or down
on the pitch. But if the pitch is wrong the Hebrew and Greek meld into each
other making them impossible to edit, even though they print properly.
        Michael Dick
        DICK@SIENA
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 92 17:42:07 -0400
From:         Tirzah Meacham <meacham@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Import SLS to Lingua
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              Sep 6, 92 2:54 pm

David, I too transferred cellular tables--  things were complicated by
the fact that my default printer in NB3 was different than in NB4. the
result was ver funny wavy margins in the table but the languages did
transfer properly. I found going from cell to cell in the beta version
mucky and tacky and irregular.-- but I did my best and if you squint
you can read the final result just fine--  lets just say-- it loses
something in translation.

.......herb
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:36:00 EST
From:         Rob Rittenhouse <RITTENHO@FAUVAX>
Subject:      Re: Multitaskers
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Michael Dick (Dick@Siena) was inquiring about whether he should
wait for NT:

IMHO, no. First I'd be very surprised if it makes it this fall. Maybe
early 93. Second: it will be less DOS/Windows compatible than OS/2.
According to PC Week's report Microsoft claims it will run the top
100 DOS & top 100 Windows apps when released. Quick, is NB in the top 100?

Certainly if you have no immediate need for multitasking (i.e. you're
not now) you could wait and see where the market goes. As it stands
OS/2 is not, IMHO, quite ready for prime time. There are a number of
fixes out which will be bundled together with Windows 3.1 support
perhaps this fall--these should make it more stable & I'm told less
resource intensive.

Yes, OS/2 can run DOS and Windows without DOS or Windows (essentially
contains them--this is how it gets to be 25-30 megs). One can also
switch back and forth between DOS and Windows and load DOS from a
separate disk under OS/2.

Rob Rittenhouse Internet: RITTENHO@ACC.FAU.EDU Bitnet:
RITTENHO@FAUVAX
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 92 14:02:32 CDT
From:         "Richard J. Betts" <RBETTS@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      NBI and fax no.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Does anyone know if NB Informatics has a fax number?  I have been attempting
to reach them by phone to try to sort out the problem with NB4 and Ibid 1.1,
and they aren't answering today even when their message says they are.
Thanks to whomever.
Richard J. Betts
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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Subject: (no subject given)