HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: glink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Gary Link)
Subject: Re: body painting 
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:52:14 GMT


A word to the wise, although woad is a great dye, cultivation of the
plant in many parts of the US is illegal, it is considered a noxious
weed, one that will spread rapidly and crowd out local flora.  Check
with your state agricultural department to find out first.  Or buy it
dried from a supplier.

Gary Link
SCA: Hal Raeburn
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: A Little of Everything
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:53:50 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <DOCONNOR.93Jan25182804@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>
>I still don't understand why people need SCA sanction to hold their
>events with "narrow recreative environments".

Well, I certainly haven't felt the absolute need.  For the last decade or
better I have more or less followed Bertram of Beringtons advice given
a few weeks ago, and worked outside of the SCA structure whenever my desires
and the SCA's desires were not in complete accord.

The result has been mixed.  I have gotten a lot accomplished...  we have
built a blast furnace and made bronze castings in the fashion of 1540,
I have made a Kent-ish long cottage, and am building a North England
style cottage now...  we have made trebuchet's, done woodworking, and
all sorts of things in our narrow focus group.   My wife has gone from
sheep to yarn to cloth to finished clothing, doing all the steps by hand
(except that we had a professional shear the sheep out of compassion 
for the poor beast).

And because I spent so much time without SCA sanctions, it took me 19
years to get an AoA, and I wouldn't be surprised if I never see any
other award.  My poor wife is still unnoticed.  Thats because almost 
all of these tasks, each of which is probably worth of a Laurel in 
and of itself, was done without SCA sanctions.

Thats the problem... it gets cold and lonely out there sometimes.
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Illegal targets (was 
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 22:06:53 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Unto the good Gentles who watch and wince here does Pagan le Chaunster send 
Greetings!

My thanks to those who have enlightened me about the convention regarding 
groin-shots.  I don't think we've had anyone here go out of their way to 
target the groin, but if you can get your opponent to leave a groin-sized 
opening in defence (the mental images are flying thick and fast) it has been 
considered fair cop.  Recent findings shall be passed on for discussion.

  > As a (former) lady fighter, one of the first things that I was told by
  > my male instructors was that, although the groin is a legal shot, and
  > technically only a "leg", it was considered very rude to aim there, and
  > most men, if hit there, would take it as a kill.

Interesting.  By the way, my kingdom calls the groin a kill-zone with all 
weapon forms (or at least the diagrams in the Caid rules do, which may be a 
different story). 
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: zebee@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period fighting styles
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:08:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:


>3) determine the weight of *real* armour, and enforce a minimum
>   weight rule for armour based on reality.

A minor point here.  From researches being done by a
re-creation/re-enactment group in Brisbane, it would appear that plate
armour of the 1400s was *lighter* than the SCA equivalent.

IT was apparently constructed with "crimple zones" the idea being that
you could always beat it out after the battle, and meanwhile it absorbed
the shock.

Documentation will arrive in a week or so, and I'll post more info.


The problem with "real armour" is determining what kind of armour?  mail
(as we are assumed to be wearing?  Horn brigandines would presumeably be
pretty light, and using plastic plates could be a reasonable alternative
to horn.

Once you legislate things, then people start looking for ways to get
around the rules.  And other people get into massive arguments about
what the rules actually mean.


>8) Find out, in terms of real hard numbers how hard we have to
>hit, and develop systems of training that *standardise* blow
>strength.

Nice idea, but *how*?  The only way wouldseem to be to develop a
pressure pad or something.  And then how do you decide if someone is
using that strength, or going above or below it without having the
pressure pads belted on the opponent's armour?

Silfren

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills....
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: Province jurisdictions
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:39:02 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Vajk writeth:
> 
> Also, over the years, there has been a desire among the powers
> that be to prevent in-fighting in a region.  In the Middle, no
> group can be formed if it is felt that the new group wishes to
> form because of political wrangling with the current officially
> recognized unit;  at least this is my understanding of the law.

This is probably misguided.

We had, here in Glaedenfeld, a problem with in-fighting.  I suggested
creating cantons for the principal factions.  Nobody seemed to take
the idea seriously.  In the end, the barony was split into two shires.
This separated the warring factions, and the problems seem to have
gone away.

(I still think that things were done in the wrong way, but the effect
appears to be similar, and it appears to be working, so my opinion is
only significant as it may apply to similar situations arising in the
future.)

The splitting of the barony was, however, only feasible because the
two factions in question were located at the north and east ends of
the barony, respectively.  It would have been much more difficult
if they had been geographically intermingled.  That is:

   /-------------------\            /--------------------\
  /       XXXX          \          /      O    X.  O  O   \
 /   .    XXXX  .   OOOO \        /   X .  .    .     .    \
 |    ..     .      OOOO |        |  .    X   O   X  .  .  |
 \      .  .    .       /          \   O    .  .    O     /
  \ ___________________/            \____________________/
    This is what we had.           This would be a problem.
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gvanlin1@mach1.wlu.ca (gary van lingen)
Subject: Re: SCA Retirement
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:35:29 GMT

In article <gfL0BYS00WB2F5MJo9@andrew.cmu.edu> ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder) writes:
>Greetings good gentles,
>
>"Older" members of the SCA tend to be in their late 30's and early 40's
>in the East.  I'd imagine you could add 5-10 years to the equivalent
>group in the West.  In either case, it's really only 25 years or so
>(less than the current age of the Society) before people will start
>thinking about retirement (though the age when one begins to receive
>Social Security may be 70 by then, but that's another post on another
>newsgroup).
>
>I'm curious -- what do folks "dream about" for their retirement years?
>Buying a house a mile from Pennsic?  Building a castle?  Getting a 
>Winnebago with crennelations and touring the Known World?  Moving
>to a retirement community with an armory and canvas-grade sewing
>machines?  What are your optimistic _and_ your realistic plans
>for mixing retirement and the SCA?  On a related matter, what
>sorts of things have SCA folk who are retired _now_ tried?

Who wants to wait for retirement.  I have a group of friends (most of whom
are just out of univeristy or nearly so and are gainfully employed) who are
willing to work towards a functioning although slightly modernized community
based on a manor.  We intend to get the land for it within the next few
years and then, when we individually are able to, will start moving onto the
land.  We are looking at areas in southwestern Ontario (around London but a
good ways south east of that city (an area I can call home as it is and I
stand to inherit a goodly chunk of A grade land in a few more years that
will be the start of the "manor".  Wait for retirement indeed!! :-)  By that
time most of us won't have the energy to see our collective dreams to
fruition>

>I'll look forward to hearing from you -- many thanks -- Bertram
>
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
>Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
>INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
>+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
>      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 

	Weird van Leeuwarden de Academicus
	Gary van Lingen
From: hjfeld@acs.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Assistance at Rutgers
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:35:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov!
I am going down to interview at Rutgers sometime the week
of Feb 8.  Is there anything going on there, as I have
some flexibility in my schedule and would like to catch
a local practice or some such.

In Service,
Yaakov
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Herald for hire (is Re: Potential New Topics)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:22:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hallo!

One place that I'd personally like to see more "hired" heralds is for
presentation at Court.  Nothing annoys me more that for the herald to
call some one forward to make a presentation, and the person has such a
quiet voice that absolutely _no one_ but the Crowns can hear what's
being said.  While the standard course is for the herald to then annouce
something like "Lord X has just given a thingy to their Majesties",
there have been time when the _herald_ has to ask the Crowns what just
happened.

I've taken to asking people who want to make presentations to the Crowns
(or whichever noble's court I'm heralding) if they have their own herald
to announce them to Their Majesties, or if they'd like the assistance of
one of my deputies.  Nobody's taken me up on the offer yet (but then
I've only done 2 baronial courts since getting the office), but a few
people have seriously thought about the idea first.

For added posh: If you or your group/household/whatever regularly make
presentations to nobles holding court, make a herald's tabard with the
appropriate coat of arms (no crossed trumpets!) for your herald to wear,
as s/he loudly proclaims to the gathered populace what a really terrific
gift you've just given.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
Hippogriff Pursuivant
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: A Little of Everything
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:28:04
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu's message of 23 Jan 93 21:08:54 GMT


jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes:
] There should be room for all of us, [...] whether we find that in the
] most narrow recreative environments or in the widest, most 
] "modern-costume-party" ones. 

It irks me a little to constantly see the "costume-party" phrase,
whith the negative connotation it carries in these discussions,
in such wide use by the proponents of "narrow-focus" events.

Now, if I dress up in garb and go to an event where we discuss
modern politics, computers, baseball and cars; and we eat
Cheese Wiz on Nabiscos and drink Coke-Cola : yes, that's
a "costume party".

However, if I put on garb and go to an event where we discuss
making armour, sword fighting, medeaval history, SCA history,
weaving, brewing, court dance and the like, and we eat various
medieval-style food and drink, I don't think of that as a "costume party",
I think of it as an SCA event.

People trying to be inflamatory can feel free to disregard this.
There's a parrallel in the abortion controversy : the pro-choice
factions sometimes call the other side "anti-choice", and the
pro-life factions sometimes call the other side "pro-abortion".

The polite thing to do is, where honor and honesty allows, call
people what they prefer to be called.

I still don't understand why people need SCA sanction to hold their
events with "narrow recreative environments".
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Medieval Village, Medieval Summer camp, etc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:23:58

 ddf> More particularly, are there people on the net who would consider
 ddf> such an offer attractive? What do they do? Presumably someone
 ddf> practising a craft that requires some use of out of period equipment
 ddf> ("requires" meaning that doing without the equipment makes it
 ddf> unreasonably difficult to make a living at the craft) could have a
 Wow.  I'm trying to think of anything I do that would be salable and 
 period.  We'd been discussing a scheme to produce Roman Samian ware, 
 but that'd be too SCA-ish a time-frame to fit into a medieval village. 
 Cooking, perhaps?  I already tend toward open-fire cooking, as I 
 cooked the dinner for Da'ud's Islamic event over a charcoal fire. 
 (Not enough courses to really call a feast....)
...
 ddf> 3. On the subject of SCA summer camp ...  . I am imagining a two or
 ddf> three month long event with a rotating population. On any given day
 ddf> there would be classes/workshops in two or three different things,
 ddf> organized fighting instruction by someone of repute, pick up
 ddf> fighting, evening dancing, ...  . Basically Pennsic with a lot fewer
 ddf> people and a much longer time frame. If someone organized such a
 ddf> thing, would people come? For how long? How far? What could be done
 ddf> to make such an event more attractive?
 I'd show up for a week -- it actually sounds more like an extended 
 version of the ** Year Celebration.  I'd expect an explicit course 
 outline, as the teachers would also be SCA and I can't really imagine 
 the same thing every week.  Gee, it already sounds attractive.... 
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
     Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Subject: Re: period fighting styles
Reply-To: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:30:38 GMT

In article <93Jan21.151255.19981@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca 
(Charles Parr) writes:
> >When I was introduced to the rule about swords breaking in combat it 
> >seemed to be based on the theory that the sword needed to be supported 
> >at both ends to make it break in the middle. Does anyone have any 
> >experimental evidence? 
> >Why does it make a difference if the hilt is held to take all of the 
> >strain of the block? 
> 
> No idea, though if it *were* supported in both ends, I'd expect 
> it to bend, not brake. swords imho would be more likely to break 
> from stresses arising from vibration (short sharp snapping 
> blows) than from what would be effectively a long compression 
> (the classic anvil) 

Actually, blocking with one hand on the grip and one hand on the blade was a 
prefered method in period.  Refs on request, but include Flos Duellatorum, 
Talhoffer, you name it.

ST
From: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Andrea Aldridge)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authentic (and dates used)
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:40:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1993Jan23.224016.8036
Organization: Western Washington University

In article <gfMBpcu00WB8Re=bss@andrew.cmu.edu> ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder) writes (among other stuff):

>    Something done in at least a reasonable
>    approximation of the way it would have
>    been done prior to 1601.
>
>      1 - "inspired by" something pre-1601
>
>	      2 - "looks like"  something pre-1601
>
>           	   3 - a 15th century dress made from a pre-1601 type of fabric
> etc.

Maybe I'm showing my age, but whatever happened to the cut-off date of 1650?
What do I do with all my Stuart garb?



-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>  Andrea Aldridge    IRC:  Folkie   E-Mail:  n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu <>
<>  WWU - 452 Edens Hall North/Bellingham, WA 98225-5971   (206) 650-2647 <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Province jurisdictions || "Persona Packs"
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:55:39 GMT

Ian Odlin wrote:
  I was digging about in the East's Law & Policies issue of the Pikestaff and
  discovered references to "Independent Colleges."  These references *seem*
  to indicate that such a thing would be autonomous of the Shire (etc) it
  geographically inhabits.  Is such the case?  I've not gone digging far enough
  to see how one sets one up, so I may be missing something relatively obvious
  here...

It is possible to create a group at a College or University, which the SCA
calls a Institutional Branch.  They still, generally, have to report through
the branch they reside in, if there is one.

East Kingdom Law is attempting to codify organizational patterns that long
predate the current version of Corpora, and which are allowed under Corpora,
if not exactly encouraged.  All of the above is opinion.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authentic (and dates used)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:02:02 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Pagan le Chaunster writes:
> 
>   > Maybe I'm showing my age, but whatever happened to the cut-off date of
>   > 1650?
> 
> The official cut-off, as I understand it, has always been 1600 (try Corpora
> for details) and the main requirement for attendence at SCA events is
> something like "a reasonable attempt at pre-1600 dress".

Except in Trimaris, where even the pamphlets for newcomers give 1650 as
the cutoff date for the SCA.  I guess too many people are attached to
their Cavalier garb here.  :-)



+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
    is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Western Land Purchase 
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 05:40:50 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

My thanks to Hal and Anatar for information on the Great Western Land 
Purchase.  It sounds like you're looking for a site rather than a base of 
operations and heart-of-the-kingdom, no?  Hmmm...  still sounds interesting.  
Please let the Rialto know how the plans proceed.

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Province jurisdictions || "Persona Packs" 
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:31:08 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


Unto the Gentles of the Rialto, especially to those which knowledge of 
Society Law, and to Iain, who wrote:

  >   I was digging about in the East's Law & Policies issue of the Pikestaff 
  >   and discovered references to "Independent Colleges."  These references 
  >   *seem* to indicate that such a thing would be autonomous of the Shire 
  >   (etc) it geographically inhabits.  Is such the case?  I've not gone 
  >   digging far enough to see how one sets one up, so I may be missing 
  >   something relatively obvious here...

Sounds like a good time to ask for clarification of some SCA rumours.

I had heard that Independent Colleges were only created when a university 
group wished to start a branch in an area where there was no existing 
territorial group.  Does the existence of an active Shire in a university 
town preclude the founding of an Independent College (although a College 
reporting through the teritorial group is an organisation to be encouraged)?  
Or will the BoD say "If it really matters that much to you..."? 

As for approval not being granted for the establishment of branches started 
for reasons of personal politics, my question is "How do they tell?".  No 
founders in their right minds are going to give the realistic and messy 
reasons for setting up an alternative branch, especially when with a little 
thought they can usually come up with a perfectly sensible rationale.

Another rumour I'd like clarified:  is it the case that the Board is on 
principle not approving the creation of Palatine Baronies unless the group is 
strongly tied to a military base, with the high turnover of personnel which 
that entails?  I know I should write to the Steward, but it's a bit far down 
my list of priorities just now. 

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand 
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Made in Atlantia
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:44:28

 HAQ> First, I would dispute that "Robyyan me fecit" is 
 HAQ> the preferred medieval
 HAQ> usage.  A medieval Latinist would more likely have used the irregular
 While I realize that one example does not a argument make, there is 
 a manuscript wherein the illuminiator has signed his name by 
 writing "Rogerio me fecit" in the white-work decorating a large red 
 capital "D".  Given that this example occurs on a moderately recently 
 produced book on Illuminated Manuscripts, it may become quite popular 
 in these Current Middle Ages, because more of us read books with pictures 
 than are scholars. ;>
    (the precise title isn't stored in my memory.  Would you like me to 
 search for it?)
      Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)