HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:46:20 GMT
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Andy Finkel (andy@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
:
: Let's make this clear, Jerry.  You should now know that Windows
: still uses the the NONREENTRANT MSDOS disk drivers.  
:

According to an MS employee who posted here earlier this week, FastDisk only
assists the virtual memory implementation, even though the interface is
capable of supporting full filesystem drivers.  It appears that FastDisk was
deliberately limited to swapfile I/O in order to retain compatibility with
DOS-based filesystem redirectors such as Stacker.

:
: I thought that the whole basis for your arguments was that Windows
: doesn't depend on MSDOS when Windows is in operation ?
:

If you recall, my argument was that Windows is an OS.  The statement in
question was certainly *not* the basis for my argument; it was incidental.

:
: But since Windows apparently does depend on MSDOS...well, doesn't
: that remove support for your previous line of argument ?
:

No.  *IF* the MS employee's article was factual, it invalidates one of my
previous statements, but still does nothing to prove that Windows is not an
OS.

:
: BTW, Microsoft still refers to Windows as an "Operating Environment', as they
: do on the disk labels I have here for Windows 3.1.
:

It says, "Operating System" on my Windows box.

:
: Are you now saying that one must consider MSDOS a part of Windows
: that should be considered when arguing whether or not Windows is
: an operating system ?
:

No.  When I got my tape drive, for example, there was a UNIX driver in
the box.  Must one consider that tape driver a part of UNIX?  Of course not.
And DOS is not a part of Windows, as Windows only uses it as a (replaceable)
disk driver.

:
: Also, very important:  How was it you were unaware that Windows
: uses a DOS interrupts for disk operations ? You've been arguing
: that Windows doesn't when Fastdisk is installed for months now;
: How could you possibly take that position if you hadn't
: checked ?
:

Of course I had checked.  The information I posted was gathered from
what I read in several descriptions of FastDisk.  *IF* the MS employer
who posted here was correct, those descriptions were wrong.  The point is
that Windows supports real filesystem drivers, and in theory does not
require DOS.  FastDisk's limitation is a compatibility issue; nothing more.
It doesn't change what Windows is -- an operating system.

: andy finkel		andy@cbmvax.commodore.com
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:46:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.094206.15056@ida.liu.se> c92andst@odalix.ida.liu.se (Andreas Stenmark) writes:

>Intel has never been in the front line of microprocessor development. And
>that's a fact.

A FACT dear friend?  Remember the 4004?  The _*FIRST*_ released
microprocessor!

>     /// Andreas Stenmark - Computer Science at LiTH, Sweden
>    ///  Internet: c92andst@und.ida.liu.se or stenmark@lysator.liu.se


--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32894 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19569
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:39:47 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <C0oDIJ.Bvo@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
> In article <1993Jan11.020018.19174@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons) writes:
>>Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>>: In article <1993Jan10.171010.18797@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>>: >In article <C0MEA7.MwA@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
>>: >writes:
>>: >
>>: >>Thus, if Commodore were to write a 'works' package to be included with 
>>: >>some Amiga system, the included word processing, spreadsheet, database, and
>>: >>drawing software would be compared to the word processing, spreadsheet,
>>: >>database, and drawing software included with Claris Works or MS Works.
>>: >
  	Isn't Gold Disk Office a 'Works' Package?  That's been out for
	years.  I don't no if its any good though.
	
>>: >Given the waning popularity of Geoworks Professional in the PC market,
>>: >why not simply have Berkeley develop an Amiga-specific version of Geoworks?
>>: >The expense of having one of the major players develop such a package
>>: >would be prohibitive, while I'd prefer CBM to commit their internal 
>>: >resources to getting RTG and 3.1/4.0 out the door. Geoworks would offer
>>: >a reasonable compromise, and a package which would prove to be a lot more
>>: >useful than AmigaVision for the average user.

	I think Commodore should promote 'home computer' software since
	they claim to sell a home computer, you know tax and budgeting
	software like Quicken and the stuff from Parsons Technology.
>>
> 
> 
>    Get a clue.  ARexx is very nice for people who know what they are doing.
> For integrating software into a 'works' package that would be sold to people
> who do not wish to screw with manuals to figure out how to do something the
> first time they use an Amiga and the pre-bundled 'works' software, relying
> on ARexx to do the integration is not wise.  It would only make the software
> more difficult to learn, causing the people you are trying to attract to
> turn their new Amigas back in for Macintoshes.

	Gee, I don't have a clue about AREXX and I installed VLT and am
	running, it and VLT uses AREXX extensively.  All I had to do was move
	the little AREXX picture to the startup drawer thingy.

> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
> is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 12 Jan 1993 11:33:31 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:

>>  It's still bogus.

>	So what?  It is possible to accomplish more under Windows
>	OS or environment, than it is under Amigados.  It has nothing
>	to do with the relative quality of either (which favors Amigados
>	in everything but DI/RTG, print support, fonts) but rather the
>	doors that each offers to the user.

  It's obvious that there is a tremendous level of applications redundancy
for the Windows environment, most people do not require 3 word processors
to produce printed output though.

>	The Amiga, after all this time, still doesn't offer much at all
>	other than nice gfx hardware and a great, efficient OS.

  It offers a lot, if you're willing to accept a bridgeboard and Amax II
as solutions that allow you to run applications that may not be available
for AmigaDOS native without having to buy into an entirely new computer
platform as well.

>	Windows offers a slew of fantastic applications.  If users don't
>	like it, they can be running something else (Linux, Univel,
>	OS/2, DOS, soon--NeXTStep) that offers what they want.  

  But why would they if Windows is supposed to be the Ultimate(tm) in
operating systems?

  -jack-
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & glo
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 19:17:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan6.143803.20006@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

>: Not only that, but you don't have to worry about having at least 500K
>: free of "special" memory. Any memory will do. Interestingly, there is
>: no advice in the manual that says "remove all TSRs and device drivers
>: before running".
>:
>
>So you're saying that the Amiga version of Civilization isn't one of those
>Amiga games that takes over the machine and kills all other running tasks?
>Nice to hear.

In fact, Civilization multitasks very nicely. I imagine the MS-DOS
version does as well.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32695 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19448 rec.games.chess:12375
From: philstas@rc1.vub.ac.be (Stas Philippe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc,rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: UChess205.lha Uploaded to anon ftp sites
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:57:26 GMT
Organization: Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Brussels

In article <1992Dec27.010408.27029@crash>, uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun) writes:
This is a test

Please ignore
If this message comes trough, please send a message to philstas@vub.ac.be (do
not do a reply on this mesage, please)

Thanx

Johor

"If Man is five, Then the devil is six"
"And if the devil is six, Then GOD is seven"
"This monkey is going to heaven"
-------------------------------------------------------------
-  Philippe Stas                        philstas@vub.ac.be  -
-  Dept. of Cellular Immunology                             -
-  Free University of Brussels          tel: 32-2-359.03.58 -
-  Paardenstraat 65                     Fax: 32-2-359.03.90 -
-  B1640 St.Genesius Rode             Modem: 32-2-359.03.59 -
-  Belgium, Europe                           (2400,1,N,8,1) -
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:57:10 GMT

Jarkko Lindblad (lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI) wrote:

> Well, neither does. 486DX2 _may_ complete an instruction every 50 MHz
> clock cycle, but only rarely do. Only simple memory -> registrer,
> register -> memory moves and simple register -> register operations as
> well as branch not takens are executed in one clock.

Of course I managed to post this without saying that even these
instructions are of course not always executed in one clock, not even
with optimized code.

> 
> -- 
> Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
> lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
> ------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
>           - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:11:51 GMT

In article <1ig8kjINNl53@phoenix.apana.org.au> hunter@phoenix.apana.org.au (James Gardiner) writes:
>Sure the amiga has less polish then the Mac GUI, but then again the Amiga
>GUI/OS is much younger. 

   The Amiga is a little younger than the Mac, but not much younger.  The
Amiga is seven years old, the Mac is nine years old.  Seven years should be
more than enough time for a system to have a highly polished GUI.  Especially
when the Mac GUI was very highly polished by time it was two years old or
so.  

> And one point you seem to leave out which is
>the most important factor here.  The amiga has support for many things
>the Mac will NEVER be able to do due to the crap under the hood.  The
>amiga is capable to be just as much an IDIOT interface as the Mac.  It
>just has to be over developed like the mac.

   There is no particular reason why the "power user" features of the Amiga
have to be sacrificed to give the Amiga a GUI that can be used by someone 
who knows little about computers.  And many of the features that make the
Mac usable by "idiots" are quite nice to have even if you are an expert user.
Some things, like a nice cut&paste system or an improved system for viewing
the documentation of freely-distributed software, would be nice to have because
it saves work.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: seifert@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael S. Seifert)
Subject: Re: The Truth about Iowa.....
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 04:14:30 GMT

In article <Paula_Lieberman.07so@amicol.UUCP> Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
>
>Iowa is a basket case in the United States -- it's full of cornfields, and
>looked down on as a place full of yokel farmers and -cornfields- without
>much culture, interesting things to see, or intelligence..... [Iowa's part
>of the "bread basket"] There are lots of jokes about there being nothing of
>interest between the east and west coast of the US -- it's a 6 hour
>airplane flight, over a lot of -boring-, flat, -cornfield- landscape.  It's
>less tedious than -driving across- the midwest (I've never drived across
>Iowa.  I;ve driven for 9 hours across Kansas, I've driven across Texas..
>Iowa's merely further north.  It's -boring-... the same landscape without
>change for hours....
>
>
I like to make fun of the backward hoosiers in this god-forsaken state, but
I must admit, indiana is loads better than iowa or kansas...  can anyone
actually give me any positive comments about these states...

As far as being in the midwest, the only thing I find redeeming are the 
people I meet as I run around looking for something to do...   a nice
change from the cocksuckers in the new england states and the west coast
pretentiousness...

mike seifert, friend, roman, countryman
 


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Sound Cards
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:55:17 GMT

In article <1itb3sINN9m9@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
writes:
>'> Flipping through my AmigaWorld... 16-bit sound card, CD quality: roughly
>'> $600 for the SunRize product;

>	Isn't $600 for a 16 bit sound card kind of expensive?  I mean, you can
>   get a Gravis Ultrasound which does the same for around $140.

Relatively speaking, $600 is expensive when compared to the lower-end
alternatives. In terms of capability however, you'd have to compare a
PC card like the MT32 from Roland (Sierra markets these) or one from
Turtle Beach. These are significantly more than $140. The CBM DSP card
will no doubt be the determining factor in the Amiga market.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:18:33 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: Listen.  If I had something I wanted to run that I didn't have enough
: ram for, I'd go get more ram.  Isn't it the logical thing to do?
:

Yes, I believe it is, but that doesn't mean that VM is a disadvantage of
the systems which have it.  By wording the above the way you did, you subtly
changed the scope of the discussion.  The question all along hasn't been
whether or not adding RAM is better than adding VM; it's been about whether
having VM is better than not having VM.

This is IMHO:

    1. If you're out of space, add RAM rather than VM
    2. If you have a choice, VM is better than no VM

Notice how the two statements are slightly different.  You seem to agree
with #1.  Do you agree with #2?

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:33402 comp.sys.amiga.games:17874
From: dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: Re: UChess Tested on Mercury PP&S 040 board
Date: 12 Jan 1993 12:16:05 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
>BTW, UChess didn't impress me at all.  The graphics are okay, but it
>is not much fun to play.

Ya, losing isn't much fun, is it?? :)  

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | dleslie@usc.edu      |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sjchmura@kimbark.uchicago.edu (steven joseph chmura)
Subject: Where is Mike Schwartz?
Reply-To: sjchmura@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:37:09 GMT

Just curious if he is still alive.  I know he bought a 486-50 ISA (no LB)    
from Dell but I thought he still planned to use his A3000.

Well, I guess another educated, talented, and amiga advocate has
left for good :(


Thanks Mike for Dark Castle if you read this.  ALthough IT BREAKS
on my A1200.........

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________Steven Chmura				University of Chicago Medical School(M1)
  "Given enough time, the impossible becomes probable, and the probable
	inevitable.."  -George Wald, "On the Origins of Life"
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 19:17:39 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan6.153019.21305@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

>Get an OS design book, and read up on the subject of demand paging.  Actually,
>a decent VM system won't even bother swapping out code -- it'll just discard
>it and read it back in from the executable file when necessary.

Oops...there goes all that self-modifying code.

Seriously, this doesn't work so well in situations where you have a lot of
"clever" assembler language programmers trying to fit all their code into
a 4K segment (IBM mainframe).

The mainframe VM that I'm familiar with (IBM MVS and IBM VM) swap the actual
code; they don't reload the executable, since this allows a lot more backward
compatibility with older code (and newer stuff, too) that is self-modifying.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:41:51 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

In article <C0n57o.GDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>In article <mbrown.100q@legend.akron.oh.us> mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us writes:
>>Actually with the Advent of OS/2, all the Things we do are new To you. 
>>C= has Never pushed the Amigas advantages into the Public mind, and 
>>that is were C= Screwed up. But if it wasn't for Commodore and the 
>>Amiga, Where do you truthfully think the IBM market would Be now? In 
>
>Give me a bfeak.  Let's not forget who wrote OS/2.  IBM.  THEY invented
>REXX.  THEY were multitasking before you were born.  So what in OS/2
>was "ripped off" of the Amiga?
>

	I don't know...but at the place where I work someone was talking
about this. I looked at the bench where he works at and he had something
jotted down about it. After the place where I work closed today, I took
the note on the bench where he works and read what he jotted down. He 
mentioned something about his desktop...

	Workplace VS Workbench...but everyone knows that the name for
the Workbench was created by a psychic in Los Gatos...



-- 

      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
Thanks Gwen. Like I said, I had faith in #3. At least it answers the phone now.
	
                                                                            
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:30:09 GMT

In article <1iqk7kINN6tt@phakt.usc.edu> dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:

<stuff deleted>

>The biggest is 1.3 stuff that crashes under 2.04

I don't see this as being a problem at all really. Commodore took a bold
step with 2.04 and made huge improvements and enhancements to the system.
As far as I'm concerned, if it blows up under 2.04 that's the programmer's
fault for not following guidelines, not NOT Commodore's fault.

>Software hangs because of second disk drive
>Software hangs because of existence of fast-ram
>Software hangs because of existence of 1 or 2 meg agnus

I've never run into any of these problems. I can only speculate that, as
you say, it happens with a few games and some very old software. But
give me a break! After all, nobody complains (or should complain) that
their version of, say, Wordstar 1.0 won't run under DOS 5.0! This is an
inevitable result of making the machine better. If Commodore had to support
every old bug, kludge and so on in the new system they'd never get anything
done at all!
>
>Anyway, I have had endless hours of problems moving software
>between the A1000, and the A3000. 

Again, hardly surprising. It's like complaining you can't run all your 
old Apple Lisa stuff on a MacII ci or your TRS 80 stuff on a 486!


Queen of Swords
dleland@nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy