From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Gaijin
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 03:08:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.173625.3208@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.060308.27770@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>(Note that Kathleen Morikawa is a Japanese by ethnicity but is an
>>American citizen.  I applaud UPI for referring to her as an American.)
>Out of idle curiousity, how do you know she IS "Japanese by ethnicity"?

I already apologized to Smittie for this overstep, but in general,
statistical probability is on my side.  The marriages of Japanese-ge
women+European-ge men far exceeds the marriages of Japanese-ge men+
European-ge women.

Chances are that Ms. Morikawa is ethnically Japanese.

(-ge = ethnically speaking)

>>Most Koreans have made a huge issue out of fingerprinting and
>>citizenship.  For years (and very loudly) they have complained and whined
>>about how the Japanese gov't is discriminating against them specifically.
>>That was and continues to be a lie.  Koreans who do not have Japanese
>>citizenship are treated in just the same way that other foreigners have
>>been treated.
>No, they are not. First of all, the ancestors of most other foreigners 
>were not forcibly relocated into Japan. 

The issue is that they are currently foreigners in Japan.  They could
get citizenship in Japan, but they don't want to.

Yes, they were forced to go to Japan initially, but there is no law
that stops them from being a Japanese citizen.

>>In particular regard to citizenship, most Koreans do not want citizenship
>>but do want the rights that are associated with it.  The Koreans have never
>As has been pointed out ad-nauseum, most of the Koreans DO want citizenship
>in Japan: many of them simply do not want to give up their names.

Too bad.

We should distinguish between (1) immigration laws that we don't like
and (2) immigration laws that discriminate.  The repeated citation of
being supposedly forced to adopt a Japanese last name is #1, not #2.

By the way, I see nothing wrong with Japan having a law that requires
all immigrants wanting citizenship to adopt a Japanese last name even
though Japan does not currently have such a law.

The law does not require a Japanese last name, but the immigration office
will pressure a foreign to adopt one.  But this applies to all foreigners.

>And even
>if they get citizenship, they registry carries a "new citizen" stamp on it,
>and in many cases this can (though not legally) prevent them from gettting
>certain jobs.

That again, is another issue.  Once a Korean becomes a Japanese citizen,
then she is entitled to all the rights of a Japanese citizen.  If a
Japanese citizen is discriminated against because she is Korea, she
should fight that discrimination.  I agree that there will be discrimination.

Again, this is a separate issue from citizenship.

Koreans should first get citizenship before whining about wanting the
rights of citizenship.  Japan is entitled to dicriminate against non-citizens
if that's what it wants to do.  The USA does the same.

>>once presented a case of a specific person who was denied citizenship by
>>the Japanese gov't and who (1) wanted citizenship and (2) met the terms of
>>citizenship.
>While it is not TECHNICALLY required by Japanese law, such name changes are
>effectively required. Thus, numerous requests for citizenship have been 
>turned down. 

Japanese law does not require name changes.

You can fight the pressure; some people have and won.  My Taiwanese coworker
chose not to object and obtained citizenship.

Most Koreans in Japan as a result of WWII already meet the citizenship
requirements.  They have lived long enough in Japan to meet both
the permanent residence and citizenship requirements.

If they don't want to change their names, then tough.  Other foreigners
are subjected to the same pressures.  They acceded and obtained
Japanese citizenship.  I see no discrimination here.

But also note that many Koreans find the idea of pledging allegiance
to Japan and absolving any allegiance toward Korea to be repugnant.

>>The Koreans have to meet the same requirements for citizenship and residency
>>that all the other foreigners must meet.  It's too bad that they can
>>not bear to pledge allegiance to Japan and not Korea.  (Even in the USA,
>>a person with permanent residency cannot vote for political candidates,
>>regardless of the whining.)
>However, any person born in the US (as the 1.2 million "Koreans" were born in
>Japan, some of them 3rd generation by now) CAN vote, once they turn 18.

That's because those people born in the US automatically become citizens.

Japanese laws for becoming citizens are different, but that doesn't
mean that they are discriminatory against the Koreans.  Japan
is perfectly entitled to different citizenship laws proved that they
do not discriminate on the basis of ethnicity (Korean immigration
laws do severely discriminate on the basis of ethnicity).

>>By contrast, Korean immigration laws explicitly favor ethnic Koreans,
>>regardless of nationality.  They explicitly favor a Korean-American over either
>>a Japanese-American or a Taiwanese-America.  It's much easier for a
>>Korean-Japanese to become a Korean citizen than for a Taiwanese-Japanese.
>
>It is also easier for people of Japanese descent from other nations to get
>Japanese immigration permission, and permanent residence, and (if they wish)
>citizenship. this was discussed at length in the Japanese papars a couple of

This is not a problem of the immigration laws.  They are unbiased and
fairly applied to everyone.

This is a problem due to discrimination in hiring practices by Japanese
firms.  They _do_ prefer people with Japanese ethnic backgrounds.  They
are hired by the firms who then sign the papers that say that the firms
act as a guarantor for the behavior of the Brazilian-Japanese, for example.
Unless these papers are signed, it is very hard for a foreigner to come to
work in Japan.

However, discriminatory hiring practices by the firms does not imply
discrimination in the immigration laws.  If Japanese firms only hired
Taiwanese-ge, then immigration would be similarly skewed.

However, it is true that Japanese firms prefer ethnic Japanese for very
biased and unfair reasons.  For those same reasons, Korean firms almost
exclusively prefer Korean-Chinese over Chinese-Chinese.

>years ago, due the influx of Brazilian-Japanese. "Returnees" have always been
>dealt with differently than other groups in Japan.

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