From: srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee)
Subject: Re: Motivational Methods
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:50:19 GMT

In article <23728@alice.att.com> rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin) writes:
>
>
>>>In my opinion, truly good trainers would not consider themselves in
>>>one "camp" or the other.  I know I will probably be flamed for this,
>>>but in my opinion, good trainers are flexible and treat dogs as
>>>individuals, applying different *tools* from either "camp" plus their
>>>own experience to "motivate" the dog to *enjoy* accomplishing task A.
>
>>Thanks for putting it so well, Stephen.  That is exactly how I describe
>>dog training to my students.  I tell them to learn every technique they
>>can to "fill up their training toolbox".  Not every tool will work in
>>every situation or with every dog, so the more "tools" you have backing
>>you up, the better a trainer you will be.
>>I train "mostly" motivational because it does wonders for a dog's attitude,
>>but I "get physical" on rare occasions when it's called for.
>
>That's what everybody says, is it true?

It is for me.  I have read many different ways on this net recently to solve
the problem of a mouthing or biting puppy.  Different dogs respond differently
to different things.  Some methods work well for others, other methods do
not work as well, some will not work at all.

>
>Schools have gotten a lot more flexible too, and education has not
>improved.  Educators have a really good conscience though.

Dogs != kids.

>
>How'd you rate Koehler as a trainer?  I think truly good might fit.
>Can you think of any flaw to deny him this description?  Any dog
>he couldn't train, even one?

Koehler is but one training model.  There are many others.

>
>He's won awards for taking on hopeless cases.

As have many others.  More to the point:  There IS more than ONE way to
train DOGS, in general.  I think it is a function of the dog, the trainer,
and what it is you want the dog to do.  By saying that Koehler is THE
method that WILL work for EVERY dog on the planet implies that EVERY dog
on the planet can be programmed using the same algorithm.  This does a
disservice to the intelligence of the dog.  It may also imply a limited
imagination on the part of the traininer.

[stuff deleted]

>If you think it won't work on your dog, please explain why Koehler
>himself couldn't train it using the methods he recommends.

I never said Koehler sould not work on my dogs or any dogs.  In fact, I never 
mentioned A particular training method at all.  I maintain that truely good 
trainers will not LIMIT themselves to ONE particular school of thought.  Apparently,
you took this as an attack on Koehler.  Not my intent, then or now.

>
>The reason there are ``camps'' is that some people don't want to
>correct their dogs - these people are interested in themselves,
>which is something that gets in the way of training.

I disagree.  The reason there are "camps" is because some pepole are too 
narrow minded to believe that there is more than one way to train a dog,
and that there is no ABSOLUTE way to train a dog.

>
>I've had people explain to me that it makes dogs robots if you
>train them that way, as if my dog Susie weren't there any more,
>the brightest eyed, most attentive dog I know, as they have
>just remarked themselves.

I did not say that any one method would *make* a dog a robot.  I said that
by applying the exact same method, over and over, without considering
each dog as an individual IMPLIES that the dog IS a robot, that can be
programmed using the same algorithm over and over again.

>
>Tired of seeing dogs put down as untrainable after their
>owners give up on obedience training.

No argument here.  I would argue that those that limit themselves to only
one school of thought have a greater probability to fail than those that
read and understand many different methods for training dogs, then apply 
them based on the response of the dog and the desired end result.

-- 
============================================================
Stephen R. Lee                 | 
OooWoo Racing Kennel           | I'd rather be driving sled
E-Mail: srlee@beta.lanl.gov    | dogs.