HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Technology choice matters
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:46:08 GMT


>From: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Ross Priven)
>You know, I've come to agree with most of the anti-BART stuff on this
>newsgroup, but I don't agree with this.  BART exists, and if we are
>ever going to have an integrated transit system, BART has to be a part
>of it.  That means it has to connect at the most important points.


By the same token the railroad tracks exist and they already provide 
a connection to BART at Colesium along with most of the downtowns
from San Jose to Sacramento.




>While I would certainly recommend conventional rail over BART for new
>additions, I think Warm Springs is an astonishingly bad place to force
>a transfer between lines.  If there were a sort of Union Station in
>San Jose, *that* would be the appropriate place to end the BART line
>-- at a junction of BART, CalTrain, the light rail, and anything else
>that happens.  


This negates the whole issue. Once the $3 billion has be spent to 
reach San Jose we would have erased modern rail's advantage. 




>I know BART is expensive, but we've got to finish what we've started,
>whether we regret the decision or not.  


No we don't. If we shoot ourselves in the foot we  do not have to 
finish the job.


>And, of course a lot of the
>BART cost is the same kind of cost that would eventually have to be
>made to any new CalTrain lines.  I've no problem with at-grade running
>length, but at-grade crossings are undesireable.



Grade separations are a lot cheaper than aireal or subways. Besides their 
are lots of freight spurs along the route to San Jose which BART would
need to separate from and CalTrain would not. In addition CalTrain 
rolling stock is a quarter of a million dollars cheaper while providing
more than twice the seating capacity.




>It is true that there are lots of rail lines up the East Bay.  I'd
>like to see the Santa Clara - Newark - San Lorenzo line be the start
>of CalTrain East, as a supplement to BART, heading over the Bay Bridge
>on a rail lane.  (I know the BB was meant for rail, but I don't know


There is already a bridge at Dumbarton and a rail line along south 
of the bay.



   Vaughn Wolffe        vaughnw@hadar.fai.com
From: vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: SF Belt Line (was Re: Santa Cla Summary:
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:43:51 GMT



>From: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Ross Priven)
>be better served?  There are a few really dense parts of the Bay Area
>where public transit is more convenient for the average person than the
>private automobile.  This is where public transit can most cheaply and
>easily pick up new riders.  BART runs through all of them: downtown SF,
>downtown Oakland, downtown Berkeley.  However, CalTrain runs close
>enough to downtown SF to make a lot of sense to extend CalTrain further
>downtown.


Density is a requirement to support high frequency short trip travel 
patterns or vice versa. Density is not the sole or controlling 
requirement for all rail travel. In fact rail services that cover or
come close to covering their costs are inter city trains. If CalTrain
charged the same fare as BART it would be at 85% fare box return. 
The density requirement is often use to discourage implementation of 
rail service or to justify implementation of some overly expensive
infrastructure. Road builders like to say the density between point
A and point B is low so we should build roads. Once they build the
roads then they say "See everyone is driving we do not want rail".
But there is still demand for travel from A to B and back that would
support rail. My point here is that ridership and travel patterns 
require multiple considerations in which density is just a part.



   Vaughn Wolffe        vaughnw@hadar.fai.com
From: jfh20@ccc.amdahl.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Europe is "special"?
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:13:06 GMT
Reply-To: jfh20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Jack Hamilton)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <3503@bacon.MooreNet.COM> jordan@MooreNet.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>
>Another plus for airlines: for the shuttle services (SFO<->LAX,
>LGA<->DCA, LGA<->BOS), there are "standby" crews and planes.  If you
>come to the airport, they will put you on a plane.  It's that simple.
>If the MetroLiner is sold out, you lose.  You get to take the "slow"
>train.

This may be theoretically true, but I've never seen it happen on the
SFO/LAX route.  I have, however, seen flights canceled by non-functioning
equipment, and I know people who have been bumped from full flights.
If they don't use extra planes under those circumstances, when would they
use them?

I think you're wrong.  Airlines schedule their equipment very carefully.
There's ordinarily no spare capacity sitting around unused.
From: jordan@MooreNet.COM (Jordan Hayes)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Europe is "special"?
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:34:22 GMT
Organization: Moore Capital Management, Inc. NYC

John Kelleher <johnk@cimshop> writes:

	Productivity should not be ignored in your calculations,
	however.  As the society becomes increasingly mobile, and
	computers and phones can connect the working person to the
	office from nearly anywhere ...

Yes ...

	... the train may have an increasing value to the business
	community.

What about the plane?  I get *tons* of work done on planes.  And I get
there sooner!  I compute.  I communicate.  I get paged.  I even
network!  And as soon as GTE and the FAA let me use my cellular modem,
I'll probably flame on USENET from 35k feet! :-)

	As trains realize that worker productivity as a major part of
	economic value, they may place themselves as more viable
	long-range transport units.

As people realize this, planes will become more of an office.  Consider
British Airways' attempt at building a 4th class of service on their
long-haul flights -- desks with computers, faxes, dictation machines
etc. during the day and full sleeper-beds at night.

I want to bring back the Orient Express -- but I want it to have wings.

Has anyone else seen JAL's prototype 747 for 200 passengers that
resembles luxury trains of the past?  Spacious public areas, formal
dining rooms, sleeper compartments upstairs, an "economy" section in
the back with more traditional seating arrangement (though with rows
that face each other as well)?  Looks pretty cool!

/jordan
From: ishizaki@hplred.HP.COM (Audrey Ishizaki)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: transit article in WSJ
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:10:27 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA


in the 8 April 1992 Wall Street Journal (Wed), the leftmost column on the
front page:

Different Road
--------------
States Try New Tactic
To Curb Auto Traffic:
Cut Highway Spending
     -----
New Jersey Is in Forefront
With an Ambitious Plan
For Building Mass Transit
     -----
Weaning People From Cars

I don't want to type the article in and can't (quickly) give a good summary.
(so find the article and read it yourself)
a bad summary: instead of widening highways, NJ is looking at tying the state
together wi/ low-pollution rail lines.  They wish to encourage the use of
mass transit by improving mass transit (and not increasing highway capacity).

As to the tie the bay area, Lawrence Dahms (exec director of the MTC) was
quoted, citing lifestyle changes to BA residents: riders lining up along
streets in oakland and berkeley to catch rides so drivers can use the HOV
lanes.  Also he pointed out the the SJ->SAC amtrak line has ridership far
above expectations.

audrey ishizaki
From: jeremy@classic.asd.sgi.com (Jeremy Higdon)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: amdahl\!ntmtv\!ames\!ucbvax.berkeley.edu\!ba-transportation
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:54:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: sgi.jgnduvc
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In article <9204071503.AA06564@asia.fai.com>, vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe) writes:
> 
> >Great!  When you have 1500 passengers that want to travel point A to
> >point B regularly, build a train.  If you only have 55, the train is
> >overkill.
> 
> Check out downtown San Francisco and Highway 101 during "rush" hour.
> 

So?  We have a train.
From: brianc@jekyll.ucsf.edu (Brian Colfer)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Technology choice matters
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:43:06 GMT

chased@rbbb.Eng.Sun.COM (David Chase) writes:
: In article <31200@darkstar.ucsc.edu> fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Ross Priven) writes:
: >I know BART is expensive, but we've got to finish what we've started,
: >whether we regret the decision or not.  
: 
: Without further information, this could well be false.  Mightn't it be
: cheaper to leave BART as it is, and extend the existing rail lines to
: meet BART at some convenient place?  

But it may not be better... I think peoplelk want seamlessly connected
systems and if they have to transfer they are less likely to use the
system.
-- 
Brian  Colfer          | UC San Francisco        |------------------------|
                       | Dept. of Lab. Medicine  | System Administrator,  |
brianc@labmed.ucsf.edu | S.F. CA, 94143-0134 USA | Programer/Analyst      | 
BRIANC@UCSFCCA.BITNET  | PH. (415) 476-2325      |------------------------|
From: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Wanted: Bicycle News
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:48:44 GMT
Reply-To: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM ()
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bike2work

Attention bicyclists & bicycle advocates,

If you have any news you'd like published in *The Spinning Crank*, 
the newsletter of the Santa Clara Valley Bicycle Assn., send it
to Ellen Fletcher at

Fletchere@aol.com

by Friday, April 10.

if for any reason that address fails to work, use 

scvba@igc.org as an alternate.

Bill
--
Bill Michel			
bm@eng.sun.com		These views are my own, not Sun's.
From: vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Lowest *congestion* cost
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:04:30 GMT


>From: gnn@manray.Berkeley.EDU (George Neville-Neil)
>Well, there could have been light rail, but Geary was constructed with
>the express purpose of preventing light rail from being put in.



Actually Geary was originally a rail line. The city and some road 
builders ripped up with the promise they would replace the rail.
When it came time to replace the rail the project promoters "just
happened" to run out of money. The private railway was out of 
business with only city hall to fight.



   Vaughn Wolffe        vaughnw@hadar.fai.com
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Modern Passenger Rail Service
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:57:06 GMT
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Organization: lbl
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

re: allowing bikes on AMTRAK & other rail lines.

There should also be bike (and car I suppose) rental places in the immediate
proximity of train stations as another alternative.

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
From: vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: sf board kill hope regional rail
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:41:27 GMT



>From: scvba@igc.org (Santa Clara Valley Bicycle Assoc.)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: sf board kill hope regional rail


> service quality threatened if plan approved tomorrow

Alarmist BS

>experienced management.  yet politicians overseeing caltrain are
>considering a plan that will result in 100% turn over in current
>experienced managers, elimination of caltrain marketing, and
>dramatic cuts to caltrain planning and operations staff size, who
>would now report to samtrans bus management.  this after a new
>company will be  hired to replace southern pacific rr to run the



This is because the new operator probably Amtrak, now that ATE has
bailed out, already provides these functions. 

In a rare moment of reducing bureaucratic layers the JPB is
being attacked.


>what you can do:



Switch to decaf.


>we need your help!  this flier was written, distributed, and paid
>for by your fellow riders who are members of peninsula rail 2000.

so was this critique.


   Vaughn Wolffe        vaughnw@hadar.fai.com
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: asente@adobe.com (Paul Asente)
Subject: More info on SRL show this Wednesday
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:50:27 GMT

Please note the time change (11:02 AM) and that it's at 3rd and Howard,
not 3rd and Harrison.

	-paul

------- Forwarded Message

From: Raymond.Drewry@Gain.COM (Raymond Drewry)
Subject: SRL show april 8, 11:00 AM

The show will not be for the faint of heart or anyone easily
offended.  This will almost certainly be the last funding SRL
ever receives around here.
Most of the best viewing spots are taken by nearby office buildings and 
seats for the Invited Dignitaries.
There will be no posters, so please publicize this if you can.
	--raymond


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

The SRL show really is at 11:02 on the morning of April 8 -- the
museum's Program Coordinator has scheduled everything to intervals
shorter than the full extension time of some of the slower
hydraulics.  It was also hinted that Frank Jordan might
run over a little and that it would be Bad Form to start
our section before the mayor finished speaking.

Partial machine list:
       Big/little arm
       Swarming/flocking/mobbing machines
       Lovely Rita, equipped with rotary jaws
       Running machine
       V-1
       The Shaker
       Tele-robotic cannon
       Sundry noise-making devices
       Festive automated props

The running machine and swarmers are of some interest to various
research institutions; the Shaker, V-1, and Arm have evolved some
since the shows in Seattle and Barcelona; the hydraulics in the props
used to have a steady blue-colllar job, but were victims of the
current economic mess and are now working in the non-profit sector;
the cannon came from a NASA design and uses miscellaneous bits of
virtual reality hardware;  Rita is just slightly unbalanced.

The site is a parking lot at Third and Minna, which is a stone's
throw (or projectile launch) from Third and Howard; if you appear at the
site between Friday afternoon and Wednesday morning, someone will
probably ask if you would like to help build the set; if no one asks,
you should volunteer to help build the set.  There is work to do at
the shop as well (1458-C San Bruno Avenue, San Francisco; 641-8065),
mostly involving the casting of plaster and assembly of wood and wood
by-products into props.

------- End of Forwarded Message

Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Subject: Re: Gym Recommendation
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 06:34:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba

In article <1992Apr8.231632.16318@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> damon@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Damon A. Koronakos) writes:
>Anyway, does anyone know of a gym that has "LifeCircuit" machines?
>One that might be as well stocked as the one near Portland?  Preferably
>somewhere between Mt. View and Redwood City?

There is a place in Menlo Park, called fitness 101.
Its right off rt 101 at the menlo park exit. 
I went there when I worked at Informix, its just down the road from them.
This place is a remarkably well equiped center, with a sports medicin facility
on location that is second to none.
If you are serious about fitness you should check it out.

>[..and for those of you that want to be totally sick - this gym had
>a huge jacuzzi, steam room, tanning booths, aerobics, all for $18
>a month, which is supposedly on the high end up there..]

the big drawback to fitness 101 is that it is VERY expensive.

LUX .. owen

-- 
D. Owen Rowley .. Note this acct is not my primary USENET access
mail gets to me quicker if you send it to owen@autodesk.com

*No matter where you go, there you are.*
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Subject: Re: Gym Recommendation
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 20:33:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba

In article <1992Apr10.202948.12936@boy.com> sgw@boy.com (Steven Warner) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.103841.21608@resonex.com> michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan) writes:
>>I just recently joined 24hr Nautilus, and have a fee of $31/month,
>
>The only reason I would avoid Nautilus is because of a newspaper article
>some months back that reported a 24 hr Nautilus (redwood City??) had
>fired an employee (front desk clerk) because he was gay.
>
>Apparently the management felt that this man was too feminine or
>something.

I suspect this has to do with that facilitys management.
The SF facility is crawling with faggots, all the male aerobic instructors
are Gay, And the strayt boyz who go there shower at home because the locker roomis one step removed from being a bath-house.

Of course this is pretty standard for all the gyms in the city anyway :-)


LUX .. owen

-- 
D. Owen Rowley .. Note this acct is not my primary USENET access
mail gets to me quicker if you send it to owen@autodesk.com

*No matter where you go, there you are.*
Xref: sparky ba.motss:774 ba.music:685
From: sklower@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Keith Sklower)
Newsgroups: ba.motss,ba.music
Subject: Free Band Concert Tues, April 14th
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:20:10 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, Computer Systems Research Group

On Tues, April 14th at 8:15pm, the San Francisco Winds of Freedom (the
seated version of the SF Gay Freedom day marching band and twirling corps)
will present a free concert at Bethany Methodist Church,
the corner of Clipper and Sanchez in San Francisco.

The program will include Sonata Pian' et Forte by Gabrielli,
Goldwyn's march ``On the Mall'', selections from the Broadway
show ``Phantom of the Opera'', Margherita Polka, and very likely
the Bay Area premier of a recently (c. 1980) unearthed Concertino
for Oboe and Winds by C.M. von Weber, featuring soloist Keith Sklower.
(among other tradition Band music).
From: jjg@gzilla.Eng.Sun.COM (Jonathan Gibbons)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Gym Recommendation
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:34:24 GMT
Reply-To: jjg@gzilla.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: gzilla.eng.sun.com

In article <1992Apr8.231632.16318@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> damon@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Damon A. Koronakos) writes:
>Anyway, does anyone know of a gym that has "LifeCircuit" machines?
>One that might be as well stocked as the one near Portland?  Preferably
>somewhere between Mt. View and Redwood City?

Gold's Gym in Mtn View is pretty good too. It is said to be the largest gym
in northern California, although it doesn't have these Life Circuit machines.

-- Jon
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Christina Black [Chris])
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Keep ba.motss local
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:37:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sybase.19493
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <10403@optilink.UUCP> walsh@optilink.UUCP (Mark Walsh) writes:

>We've also got bathhouses and
>restaurants that will cater to those of any taste.

Or those of no taste.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Survival Research Labs
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:24:33 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) busily signals:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) perspires:

>>Pacific Bell HQ Building, where yours truly sweats night
>>and day to bring y'all Dial Tone... :-)
>>
>Dial Tone sounds like a soap merger to me, oh one who truly sweats.

I will not work myself into a lather over this.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921)
Subject: Re: Gym Recommendation
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:54:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.231632.16318@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> damon@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Damon A. Koronakos) writes:
>
>
>Anyway, does anyone know of a gym that has "LifeCircuit" machines?
>One that might be as well stocked as the one near Portland?  Preferably
>somewhere between Mt. View and Redwood City?
>
>Thanx for the input..
>Damon

Gyms around here are expensive.  The 24hr Nautilus centers tend to 
have the largest collection of machines.  They're also the most expensive;
after paying your initiation fee, expect to pay about $40/month.

I go to a Gold's gym in Santa Clara.  Gold's is strictly a gym, but it
works out to only about $27/month when you pay $335 for an anual membership;
there are no initiation fees like at 24hr Nautilus.  You can also buy
shorter term memberships so you can try to gym out and make sure you like
it before you commit big bucks.

I don't put much faith in gizmos.  Look for a no-nonsense gym where you
can find a good/regular partner.  Gold's tends to have good equipment:
Nautilus, Cybex, free-weights and the usual assortment of cycles and
stair-master machines.  I understand there's a Gold's in Redwood City.
There are four Gold's in the South Bay all of which are owned by the
same person so membership in one gets you access to all four.

Hope this helps.

George Skillman
NEC America
brahms@tdd.sj.nec.com
--
=============================================================
George Skillman (408) 433-2921
brahms@tdd.sj.nec.com
NEC America
From: tachyon@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: New LGB Parents' group meeting 4/15 in Santa Cruz
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:33:40 GMT
Organization: Tachyon Labs


Oh gee, I can't believe I spaced out posting about this until the
night before the first meeting ... well at least I got the flyers and
newspaper ads out on time!
 
Here's the text of the latest flyer:
 
A new support/social group is forming in Santa Cruz to give lesbian,
gay and bisexual parents a place where we and our children can get
together with other LGB parents and their children to share
friendship, knowledge and experiences.
 
(This is not a PFLAG-type group but rather a group for LGB people who
are themselves parents.)
 
Parents can bring their children (of whatever ages) along to meetings.
 
The children can have fun playing together in an environment free of
the homophobia endemic to so many schoolyards and other play places,
and would know that there are many other children with LGB parents.
 
Parents can get together with other parents without having to leave
their children at home.
 
The group is starting out meeting the third Wednesday of every month
from 7-10 p.m. in room 8 (a fun room for kids) at Louden Nelson
Center, (301 Center St., in downtown Santa Cruz).
 
At this point the room has been reserved for April 15 and May 20,
though as we get going and find out what people are most happy with,
the group may change to a different location (people's homes? outside
at a park?) or schedule in later months.

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|      tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu \        /__   One of the Bivariant Illuminati |
|         tachyon@gorn.echo.com \    /   / I only like sigs on *other* people|
|tachyon@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us \/   / I should go log off and get to work!|
 -----------------------------------\/---------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: pauli@uniblab.asd.sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Subject: Apartment/share sought.
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:33:54 GMT

Hi all!

Well, a week from Tuesday, a good friend of mine is moving to San Francisco,
from New York, and he's going to be looking for an apartment.

His name is Alan Klein, and he's a wonderful person. Warm, funny, kind, 
queer activist (a founder of Queer Nation!), about 28 I think.

He's interested in sharing an apartment, or in finding one of his own.
It can't be too expensive ( I would guess $500 - $700 is tops ).

Please E-mail me if you have any leads.

Thanks,
 
pauli.
--
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Paul Isaacs -- pauli@sgi.com (415)335-7494 Silicon Graphics Inc.