HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Satanic Ritual Abuse Therapy
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:28:29 GMT


 kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:


The cover story on the new issue of _Ms._ magazine is 
                 "Believe it!
            Cult Ritual Abuse Exists
               One Women's Story"

Inside is a 6-page first-hand account by "Elizabeth S. Rose" (a
pseudonym). The article ends "If we want to stop ritual abuse, the
first step is to believe these brutual crimes occur."

The lead story on ABC's "Primetime Live" was also on ritual abuse. It
was much more skeptical. It pointed out that some psychotherapists
were getting rich finding ritual abuse almost everywhere they look.
The show also talked to four women who said their psychotherapists had
exploited them by feeding them fantasies (while ignoring their
truthful accounts of "ordinary" abuse.) Primetime Live also said that
an FBI study (dated January 1992?) concluded that there was no
evidence of even one ritual-abuse related murder. (Some of the
psychotherapists claim that tens or even hundreds of thousands of
ritual murders are involved.)

sfjr@wam.umd.edu ( Steve Russell) writes:

	I watched this show as well and the skeptical case seemed very
	convincing.  It frightened me because victims of child abuse
	undergo much anguish about whether or not to believe memories
	invoked from therapy.  

	However, the FBI ( and others) have more then documented that
	child abuse has and does happen.  This makes it differnt
	from "Ritual Satanic Abuse" which has yet to be established
	exteral to a victims memory.

	Having said this I'll toss out an ancedotal point from my past.

	The head of my biology department in highschool was a professional
	hypnotist in his spare time.  One day when school was to close early
	from snow ( pre - greenhouse days ) his buddy, my anatomy teacher
	invited him in to class to strut his stuff.

	He explained that the subconcious mind is EXTRAORDINARILY suggestive
	creative, and quick.  To demonstrate he put my friend Dennis into
	a deep trance and told him he was a native from the planet venus.
	My friend intstantly came up with a very articulate and consistent
	story about his life on venus.  The hypnotist then told Dennis to
	speak in his native language, venusian, which he did.  The sounds
	were very articulate, and sounded like they could be passed off
	as a language.

	This is the source of my agreement concerning the skepticism
	of the widespread existence of satanic ritual abuse esp if the
	FBI hasnt unconvered any proof these people exist.

	It is also why Im skeptical about belief in reincarnation based
	on someone remembering past lives in hypnosis.  There isnt any
	way to tell ( most of the time) if the subconscious isnt making
	a story up to order by the hypnotists suggestion.


Steve R



Xref: sparky soc.women:22405 soc.men:22445 alt.feminism:6971
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: I confess!... *HE'S* guilty!!!!
Summary: chopping a little logic on the side
Date: 9 Jan 93 12:53:10 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

[ David Boucher stated that feminism was a religion. ]

gf:
| )| >there is a very large body of feminist writing which is at
| )| >least as rational as any other kind of writing on the same
| )| >subjects (mostly, politics and social issues).

bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            ) writes:
| )| There is a very large body of RELIGIOUS writing that meet those same
| )| criteria, going all the way back to the Talmud and the writings of
| )| Thomas Aquinas.  There are volumes of infinitely logical, precise and
| )| elegant discursions on such topics as the obligations of slaves, whether or
| )| not christians must be circumcised, and how many angels can dance on the
| )| head of a pin.

gf:
| )So what?  The logic here is: some religious writing is
| )rational; some feminist writing is rational; therefore, all
| )feminist writing is religious.  Surely you can do better
| )than this if you try.

dmcanzi@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi) writes:
| You can do better than this, Gordon.
|
| The logic of his argument is actually this: some religious writing is
| rational, therefore just because some feminist writing is rational, it
| doesn't prove that feminism is not religious. ...

Yes, I can do better; but here I am in this thread
anyway.

You're right in one sense: David Boucher could be merely
showing that religious writing could be rational.  However,
his original positive assertion, and a very explicit
assertion it was, too, was that feminism is a religion.

I took what he wrote as speaking to that assertion as well.
This is a frequently-used rhetorical ploy, and David
Boucher's writing partakes of it in the great length he
goes to to chop this particular little piece of logic.  He
could have said simply "Religious writing can be rational."
Instead, we have a great deal of picturesque material like
Aquinas and the circumcision of Christians.  It's obvious
that the material is intended to support the original
assertion; why else include it?  Unless we are to say that
Boucher speaks incoherently and without purpose from time
to time, which I suppose is a possibility.
-- 

 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
Xref: sparky soc.women:22412 ne.general:3907
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.women,ne.general
Subject: Gloria Steinem to Speak in Massachusetts,  February 25
Date: 9 Jan 1993 17:20:13 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

An Afternoon with Gloria Steinem

February 25, 1993

To benefit the legal defense of the Rape Crisis Services of Greater Lowell
and
The Rape Crisis Program of Worcester

Sponsored by Acton Area and Greater Lowell N.O.W.

11:30-12:30 Luncheon (at First Parish Church, Concord)

12:30-1:30  Speaker (Gloria Steinem, feminist activist and writer)

1:30-3:00   Private reception with Ms. Gloria Steinem


Sponsor $500 Donor $250 Friend $100 (includes luncheon and reception)
Luncheon/lecture only $35

To attend, please fill out a check to Rape Crisis Serv of Gr Lowell,
and send your name and address to 

Rape Crisis Services of Greater Lowell
c/o Lowell General Hospital
295 Varnum Ave.
Lowell, MA  01854

****************************************************************************

Salem State College in Salem, MA offers an Annual Series of speakers, one
of which will be Gloria Steinem, on February 25, 1993.

The program will begin at 7:30 pm in the Richard B. O'Keefe Center,
Canal Street, Salem, MA.

The following is the write up from the brochure:

"The Series is very pleased to present Gloria Steinem, the founder of Ms.
 magazine and author of the current bestseller, Revolution From Within.
 Ms. Steinem is currently an editor and writer for Ms., and also pens articles
 on politics, political movements, and current sociology for nationally and 
 internationally known magazines and newspapers.  She is committed to helping
 women better themselves, and serves on numerous national and international 
 groups, including NOW, the Ms.Foundation, the Coalition of Trade Union Women,
 and the National Women's Political Caucus.  Don't miss this opportunity to
 hear the viewpoint of one of current society's most astute chroniclers - 
 Gloria Steinem."


Tickets are available by calling (508)741-6600 and may be charged 
over the phone.  Ticket prices are:

$12 - General Admission
$25 - Reserved Seating
$40 - Preferred Seating, Reserved Parking, Reception with Gloria Steinem


*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.penpals,soc.net-people,soc.couples,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Lancey
Date: 10 Jan 1993 18:59:07 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <C0GCxH.8vq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> alyon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (arthur alexander lyon) writes:
>I am looking for a woman. Her name is Lancey...

Lemme go downstairs and check in the dungeon.  One's bound to answer to that
name...
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.penpals,soc.net-people,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: Lancey
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:07:28 GMT

In article <C0GCxH.8vq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> alyon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (arthur alexander lyon) writes:
>I am looking for a woman. Her name is Lancey (my spelling may be

I saw Lancey yesterday. She said she remembered you and that under no
circumstances was I to give you her address or phone number. Sorry.






If you wonder why everyone is having such fun at your expense, perhaps
you should read the guidelines for effective use of soc.net-poeple and
the other thousand odd groups  this  has been posted to. Your request
will  probably go into a FAQ file as a prime example of how  not to
format a request. Regards,
-- 
Donald R. Newcomb                * Oh please, Mr. Clinton, won't
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * you please just tax that other
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * guy and send his money to me?
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: sam@sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Subject: Re: Feminism is a RELIGION! (eureka!)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:10:34 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL7]

BOUCHER DAVID (bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan6.172609.28106@news.columbia.edu> rj24@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Robert  Johnston) writes:
: > [...]  I believe that there is no inherent intellectual difference between
: >the sexes. Do you believe otherwise?

: But what evidence is there that there are NO inherent mental differences?

Be careful there -- there are studies of blood flow in the brain that point
to mental differences.  This is quite different than 'intellectual' differences.
The idea that women may, or may not, think differently than men is not as
hotly debated as the idea that this would make them inferior.
I am a mathematician with good 3D spacial sense (unusual for a woman) but I
suspect that my brain still functions differently than a male one.
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men,alt.feminism,talk.abortion
From: ccs@n8ppd100.DOMAIN.NOT.SET (Chris C. Swift)
Subject: Re: False allegations (Was Re: What can we expect from President Hillary Clinton?)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:58:30 GMT
Reply-To: ccs@n8ppd100.DOMAIN.NOT.SET (Chris C. Swift)
Organization: BNR, Inc.


Ican identify with much of the frustration that I detected in what I have read.
My former wife accused me of abusing my daughter three times during the eight
months prior to our divorce.  I "successfully" fought these charges all the way
to the New York State Supreme Court and it only cost me $30,000, my job and any
relationship that Imight have had with my children.  You may be thinking that 
surely after the supreme court ruled in my favor that the family court would have 
granted me reasonable visitation (if not full custody).  But my ex-wife took the
position that since I had very limited (by the court) visitation during the 
litigation that my children no longer knew me and therefore my visitation should
continue to be limited indefinitely.  The court agreed; the winner: the attorney's
the losers: my children and I.  It has been three years now and this bothers me
almost as much today as it did then.
From: dswartz@redondo.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: A question about women driving
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:32:52 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan11.034836.17633@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

[tale of retired father deleted]

In previous generations, the men were often (even usually) either the
sole or the primary provider.  After 40+ years of this, he's probably
having trouble coping with losing this role.  I appreciate your mother's
self-confidence issue, but I think your father has one too.  I really
don't think he's doing this to dominate your mother or to be a pain in
the you-know-where.

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: <ELLEN@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: fetus doesn't know pain
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:41:34 GMT

  I tried to post this directly to the writer, but the address was invalid,
so am posting to the net (which I WISH people who have personal messages for
other people would NOT do, in general).
     The anti-choice people put out a pamphlet called "Abortion:  Death Before
Life ?",  which contains, among other statements designed to confuse rather
than enlighten:  "At eight weeks, the baby feels pain"  and further on in the
pamphlet they print the truth, but disguised in abstruse language: "At seven
months.. there is substantial cerebral functioning of pain perception".
     A pre-med student explained it to me thusly--while the brain and the
nervous system are both developing at a rapid rate, the connection between
the two is not made until about the seventh month.  It is logical when you
consider the "growing pains" the fetus would suffer otherwise.
     So to the person who posted this--you don't have to feel guilty about
fetal suffering during a first- or even second- trimester abortion.  And
usually for the later abortions the woman is given anathestic.  The only
exception is saline abortions, which are cheaper and would probably not be
performed in this country if all poor women had access to public funding.
(According to PP, there are about 11,000 performed per year).
Newsgroups: soc.women,sci.skeptic
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: _In Pursuit of Satan_ (Was Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse" in the media)
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:54:33 GMT

In <TSDAVIES.93Jan12034854@rodan.syr.EDU> tsdavies@rodan.syr.EDU (T.S. Davies) writes:

>   The figure of 50,000 victims of human sacrifice annually is one
>   that seems to be generally accepted by the "cult cops"; Hicks
>   attributes it to Deputy sheriff Larry Dunn, with support from
>   survivor Jacquie Balodis, who says, "devil worshipers sacrifice
>   50,000 humans a year, mainly transients, runaways, and babies
>   conceived solely for the purpose of sacrifice."  (p. 58, from an
>   article by Melissa Berg, "Satanic Crime Increasing?  Police,
>   Therapists Alarmed," _Kansas City Times_, March 26, 1988.)

As others have noted, the 50,000 figure is unbelievably large.
The FBI's _Crime in the United States_ reported 20,045 total
murders in the U.S. in 1990, down from 21,860 in 1980.  By
comparison, there were 62,000 reported residential robberies in
1990.  Are we really supposed to believe ritual murder is nearly
as common as residential robbery?

If these 50,000 really include a substantial number of babies
bred for sacrifice, the numbers don't show it.  There were
4,041,000 recorded live births in 1989, and only 40,000 deaths of
infants under 1 year old, so 50,000 deaths would mean an
unnoticed doubling of the infant death rate, or concealment of
more than 1% of all pregnancies leading to live birth.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: soc.women,sci.skeptic
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse" in the media
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 11:19:28 GMT

I've deleted a.s.a.r

In article <9JAN199319341364@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
)Various people write:
)>>I've seen people claim that between 50,000 and 2,000,000 ritual murders
)>>take place every year in the U.S.  Now let's see:
)> 
)>>50,000 murders / 365 days a year / 50 states = 2.74 ritual murders per
)>>day in each state.

)How many women of child-bearing age are members of these cults?  How many
)of them are pregnant at any one time?  How many children do each of them
)have?  Answer these questions, and see if you still think that "2.74/day
)doesn't seem like an overly high number to me."

Another way of looking at it - in 1989, there were a total of 18,947
homicides *TOTAL* in the US, according to the FBI 'uniform crime reports'.

So this would require over 2X the total known homicide rate to be
unknown 'ritual murders'.  I don't think this is plausible.

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: Breast Implant Info Needed
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:24:04 GMT

In article <lkkj1hINN622@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed
Falk) wrote:
> 
> In article <C0E09q.JE7@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> sam@sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:
> 
> >I fail to see why the laws should be different.  If implants are safe, then
> >let everyone try them.  If they are not, don't give them to anyone.  
> 
> The consensus seems to be that they're not safe.  Therefore, the logical
> solution is to deny them to everyone.
> 
[stuff deleted]

What is "safe" for one person may be bad for another! Some medications
are "safe" for me and others (that my SO takes and are good) are
"bad" for me!

People's bodies are "different"! An implant that may
be safe for me, might be very harmful to another. We don't know
yet for whom what is safe and what is not!

That is why drug reactions are very important to know! What
may be fine for you may kill someone else!

Human medican is at a very crude stage.

Remember at doctor has a "practice". I wonder when they will do it
for real.

Love and hugs,

Celeste
Xref: sparky soc.women:22528 alt.child-support:4356 talk.abortion:55267
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.child-support,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: What can we expect from President Hill
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:41:48 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

sam@sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:

> sbishop@desire.wright.edu (sbishop@desire.wright.edu) wrote:
> : How about an honest answer from all the divorced people out there, male
> : and female.  How many of you asked (or were asked) to go to counciling
> : with your former mate?  How many went?
> 
> My ex made the appointment, we went, he told the counselor that the problem
> was mine and left.  The counselor and I were not successful in saving the 
> marriage.

I did, and my ex said she didn't want to air dirty laundry in public.
Bear in mind that a spouse and a counsellor can't save a marriage. Only
the spouses can.


---
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA
Newsgroups: soc.women,sci.skeptic,alt.sexual.abuse.recovery,talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc,talk.bizarre
From: michael@neuron6.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Rivero)
Subject: Re: We Have Been Trying to WARN YOUN!!!!
Organization: JPL Pasadena CA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:30:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.132034.16621@wetware.com> drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
>haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>] In article <C0Iors.Mp8@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>] >Primetime Live also said that
>] >an FBI study (dated January 1992?) concluded that there was no
>] >evidence of even one ritual-abuse related murder.
>] 
>] So!  Even the FBI is covering up for Satan!
>
>How Many times HAve I personally Written about
>the Evil SatanicKultRitualists in Washington DC
>and folks have NOT Taken Me Serious About IT!!!!!
>
>
>ciao
>drieux
>
>
>ps: what ever happened to the good old days of: 
>	Space Aliens Made me a Sex Slave For Elvis.

  They were too  busy looking for Elvis and UFO's to spend money or
vote, so the media ignores 'em now! :)


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Omigod, he's BACK!  The Animator From HECK and his unchained PIXELS!   |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|                                                                         |
|  Thanks to some very generous support by folks whose names are          |
|  omitted to protect the insoucent, I once again have net access.        |
|                                                                         |
|    My sojourn at this email address will be brief as the Animation      |
|  Attic will soon take delivery of a UNIX workstations and will then     |
|  acquire it's own net-feed.                                             |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-- 
Michael Rivero michael%neuron6@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,alt.women,soc.men,misc.legal
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: How to Protect Women
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:53:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.230538.13949@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892) writes:
)In article <1992Dec31.111124.7174@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
)>
)>
)>Here are some figures from 'Fatal Violence among Spouses in the
)>Unites States', 1976-85, by Mercy & Saltzman
)>
)>                                        Victim
)>Spouse Homicides                    Husband  Wives
)>
)>Single Victim Single Offender       7105     9262
)>Multiple Victim Single Offender       10      218  <--- HUH?
)>
)>Ex-Spouse Homicides
)>
)>Single Victim Single Offender         131     195
)>Multiple Victim Single Offender         0     100  <--- HUH?
)>
)>Other Spouse-Related Homicides
)>
)>Multiple Offender                      147     46
)>Justifiable                            107      6

No typo - that's what the report quoted (I just rechecked).  Note
that the MVSO homicides are still much lower than the single victim single
offender spousal homicides.

[If I had to guess, I'd guess that the MVSO homicides were the 'man shoots
wife, kids, self, sort.  It would appear that women don't do this as often.]
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: sam@sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Subject: Re: Breast Implant Info Needed
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:48:32 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL7]

Ed Falk (falk@peregrine.Sun.COM) wrote:
: >I fail to see why the laws should be different.  If implants are safe, then
: >let everyone try them.  If they are not, don't give them to anyone.  
: 
: The consensus seems to be that they're not safe.  Therefore, the logical
: solution is to deny them to everyone.
: 
: The problem, I think, is that there are some women who would refuse to
: have needed masectomies if they couldn't get implants.  The danger of
: this outweighs the danger of the implants, so they make an exception in
: this case.

Reconstructive surgery without implants should suffice for those women.
Tissues from the hips, thighs, wherever, can be used.  This procedure is
probably more expensive but does not have the same risks.
Newsgroups: soc.women