HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Why is dxclock bigger than vmunix?
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 20:51:13 GMT

|> Everyone say it at once - "we want shared libraries".

OSF/1, now shipping on DECstations, does support shared libraries.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: WHAT is the FASTEST way to load a Decstation 5000/240
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:41:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.140242.17565@dale.ksc.nasa.gov> rhill@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Russ Hill) writes:
>
>I have to load a few hundred Decstations 5000/240 and currently I 
>am using ris to get the os installed then I run a shell script that
>copies applications and makes other minor adjustments. but ris
>is not unattended!!! Is there some way that I can boot diskless ; mount
>the drive then load the os, copy applications and make minor os adjustments.
>I need this to be as unattended as possible.

If they are all going to be setup pretty much the same way, you can
make one "master" disk and then just use a dump|restore to copy the
files from the master disk to the new disk.  After you've done that,
you can make any mods you need to do by hand.  You could even have a
script that makes the partitions on the disk, newfs's the partitions,
does the dump|restore, and whatever else you can automate. 

We do this all the time here with DECstations and Suns.  Works great
and it's a lot less work to bring up a new system.


Mike
From: jensting@ee.ic.ac.uk (Jens Tingleff)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Why does a DECStation dump core on C program with *large* auto var?
Keywords: Stupid C compiler, stupid computer, stupid user (?)
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:30:39 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.ultrix
Organization: Elec. Eng. Imperial College, London

Hi

I tried compiling a simple benchmark program on a DEC station 5000. I didn't get
any errors during the compile. When running the program I got segmentation
fault, core dump. After considdering the matter, I found that this simpler
program will reproduce the error 
==========================================================================
#define SIZ 1000

static double foo(n, d)
int n;
double d;
{
  double m[SIZ][SIZ];
  double d1 = 0;
  double d2;

  return d*d*((double)n);
}


int main()
{
  double d4;

  d4 = foo(50, 1.0);
}


=========================================================================

Thinking about it, the auto declared matrix with 1000000 elements may have
something to do with it... .

The question is WHY WASN'T I TOLD ???? dbx wasn't eccesively helpfull, placing me
at the line ``double d1 = 0;'' . 

It may not be a reasonable program (so what if it compiled/ran like a charm on
our SUNs, we're may be getting these magnificent DECCstations instead..), but I
would have liked the diagnostic to be a little more helpful.

-- 
Mr Jens Tingleff, M.Sc.EE. PhD student at 
     Imperial College, Dept of EE,  Exhibition Road, London SW7 2BT, England
jensting@titan.ee.ic.ac.uk or jensting@ee.ic...  (used to be jensting@diku.dk) 
   "How?"   "I'll make it up as I go along"  Indy, 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'
From: mort@dhump.mil.wi.us (Marty Wiedmeyer)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: pcomm for ULTRIX 4.X
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:51:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: dhump.1992Apr14.165112.19334
Organization: Nubeat Communications, Milwaukee, WI

I'm having trouble getting pcomm, the telecommunications program
running on the DECstation 3100, ULTRIX 4.2.

The code uses curses for painting the screen, but the only functions I
am able to locate in the ULTRIX libs are in Xcurses.

My goal is to allow users to TELNET to the DS3100 using vt terminals
and dial out using the modem connected to the DS. tip works dandy, but 
the users would also like to upload/download using Zmodem.

Has anyone done a port of pcomm or would anyone recommend a similar 
PD package?

I've looked at ecu, but it's set up for SCO and Sun only.

Please reply by email.

Thanks!
-- 
Marty Wiedmeyer					mort@dhump.mil.wi.us
From: peterson@grue.enet.dec.com (Bob Peterson)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Strange Fortran v3.0 runtime message...
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:26:17 GMT
Reply-To: peterson@tle.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


If you are running ULTRIX V4.2, you need to have your sysadmin type this
command:
	setld -c DFRBASE300 OSFCAT
This switches the symbolic link to the 4.2 message catalog.

This installation quirk catches a numebr of people.  It has been fixed in 
V3.1, I believe, to do this automatically.

\bob
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: reber@ceres.fccc.edu (John Reber)
Subject: Re: Problems getting more swap
Originator: reber@ceres
Keywords: swap swapon
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:20:07 GMT


In article <3022@eastman.UUCP>, robbins@calvin.Kodak.COM (Gretchen Mittelstaedt) writes:
> Oh loyal Ultrix-ites,
> 	I am trying to allocate more swap on my DECstation 5000/200.
> I thought I could do the following:
> 	1)  Use this fstab entry:
> 		/dev/rz0g:/swap:sw:0:0:ufs::

your fstab entry should look more like this:

	/dev/rz0g::sw:::::

as a swap area it, you don't want to specify mount points, frequency of dumps,
passno, or file system types


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:    j_reber@fccc.edu		Fox Chase Cancer Center
Phone:	     (215) 728-3633		7701 Burholme Ave
Fax:	     (215) 728-2513		Philadelphia, PA 19111
	     "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"

X-Face: *Lcm(.\X47bGx`Qn\*Sz+A/t%JrnJq*]taQHlEvg}Yc)0w{&:gE<t67ivZ$j0H~sl%OY++.
 63}weVbcA}SAmg|0YZ/q?dc8Xh=Y,$Q;<K@Q4DgYo_0h%:{Z6;q`Da?gv;-$Iy@jzt`tf6C3Ah9rzL
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "will do TCP/IP for food" Ranum)
Subject: Re: once more, with feelin'
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:42:05 GMT

(*Hobbit*) writes:
>Has anyone yet dug into the innards of crypt16() to determine where its
>differences from crypt() lie?

	Try pasting 2 copies of the source to crypt() end to end. The
rotors are still perturbed, going into the second 8 bytes.

mjr.
From: STRCC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Stuart Cohnen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Help setting up Prestoserve
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:31:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: CUNYVM.92098.093122STRCC
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

No Big Deal to set up PRESTOSERVE. On our 5500 we just say
/usr/etc/prestp -u /sys1 /sys2 /sys3
and off it runs.
To run dxpresto you need to startup the daemon by saying:
/usr/etc/prestotcl_svc

Note that 4.1 had a bug in dxpresto, get 4.2 or the patch.

Stuart Cohnen   stuart@net-manager.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
The City College of New York
New York, NY
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "will do TCP/IP for food" Ranum)
Subject: Re: Question About Remote Dumps and Changing Tapes
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:39:28 GMT

forrest@nobozo.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Forrest) writes:

>What do you do about this? Is this problem solved by DECnsr?

	NSR is generally so far above any solution I've ever seen (or
implemented myself) that uses dump/rdump that there's no comparison.
NSR keeps indexes of what was stored on what tape, that you can browse
offline, it lets you schedule machines and groups of machines to dump
automatically at various times and in various modes, with on the fly
compression, and parallel dumps, with tape switchover, etc, etc, etc.
For what it costs, and considering the time savings, it's very very
cheap.

mjr.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: lloyd@jeeves.engr.mun.ca (Lloyd Little)
Subject: ULTRIX V4.2A dxterm wierdness!
Keywords: ULTRIX 4.2A dxterm
Reply-To: lloyd@jeeves.engr.mun.ca
Organization: C-CAE, Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:26:59 GMT

After installing the V4.2A upgrade, I find that dxterm can't open display
on machines which it used to be able to. The old dxterm still works. Is
this a new feature of V4.2A? If so it's very annoying. The remote node
is listed in the access control list, and dxterm actually works over the
TCP/IP transport but not DECNET! I've tried putting the DECNET node name in
as femto::, FEMTO::, and 1.272::, none of which work. Any clues would be
appreiciated.

PS. Anyone known how to disable the 'pause' feature of dxsession???

--
Lloyd Little		Programmer Consultant CCAE
			Memorial University of NFLD. Canada
			(709) 737-3108
lloyd@femto.engr.mun.ca
From: gdha@se.alcbel.be (Gratien D'haese)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: mountd dies.
Keywords: mountd nfs
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:33:47 GMT
Reply-To: gdha@se.alcbel.be
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Alcatel Bell, Antwerpen, Belgium


Dear Ultrix-ers,

	Last week I had to change all the internet addresses of my DECstations.
Therefore, I changed each /etc/dlparam, /etc/hosts and /etc/netblk.c manually
on each client. Of course, I recompiled netblk.c to netblk.o ('cause its the
secondary load file).

I changed the server's address too and rebooted them all. So far, no problems.
Each workstation seems to work correctly, broadcast and netmask are ok, and
they can reach the rest of the net (and the net can reach them too).

But, since then I have troubles with my NFS servers where the mountd
seems to die silently. I see no clue in the syslog and nothing special when
I trace a mountd. When I kill the daemon and restart it, it dies again after
a certain amount of time (ranging from one hour to one day).

Does anyone has a clue what could be the cause of this annoying problem?

Thanks and many regards,
Gratien
--
  _______ 		Gratien D'haese    Switching Systems Division  se121
  \     /Alcatel			  F. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen
   \   /  Bell		e-mail: gdha@se.alcbel.be    Phone: (32) 3 240 94 51
    \/ Telephone		gdha@alcbel.be 	     Fax:   (32) 3 240 99 50
From: heiney@wsl.dec.com (Bob Heiney)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Will 4.2 work on 5000/240s
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:20:01 GMT
Reply-To: heiney@wsl.dec.com (Bob Heiney)
Organization: DEC  Western Software Lab

You must have 4.2a to use a 5000/240.

-- 
Bob Heiney
Technical Consultant
Digital Equipment Corporation, US Desktop Sales, Palo Alto, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and not necessarily those of my employer
From: neulynne@uts.uni-c.dk (Mogens Lynnerup)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Lpd filters 8-bit clean?
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:22:15 GMT
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education

I wonder if any one else has been into this. In the manuals it's stated
that the ln03rof filters are "transparent to documents already formatted
in PostScript(TM)". 

If I take a non PostScript file containing Danish national characters and 
filter this thru ln03rof_isolatin1 it generates a PostScript file containing
the same Danish national characters. Thats OK.

If, how ever I take this output file and filters it once again using the
ln03rof_isolatin1 filter, the Danish national characters gets stripped 
off. Thats not transparency in my part of the world.

Any body else who have had this kind of experience and how did you solve this?

-Mogens

P.S.
Please reply directly by email - I do not read this group regularly.
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+      Mogens Lynnerup                                                        +
+      UNI-C Aarhus, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.      +
+      Olof Palmes Alle 38, DK 8200 Aarhus N.                                 +
+                                                                             +
+      Phone:   +45 86 78 44 44                                               +
+      Telefax: +45 86 78 44 55                                               +
+      E-Mail:  Mogens.Lynnerup@uni-c.dk                                      +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "will do TCP/IP for food" Ranum)
Subject: Re: 4.2A login(1) -e option
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:05:38 GMT

boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts) writes:
>What _exactly_ does this option do?  I can't find it documented in any
>manual entry (except for the useless blurb in login(1)).

	/*
	 * -e is used to specify extended prompter communications protocol.
	 *     It is only meaningful in the presence of "-P".
	 */
mjr.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts)
Subject: Re: Why does a DECStation dump core on C program with *large* auto var?
Keywords: Stupid C compiler, stupid computer, stupid user (?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:22:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.183040.25390@cc.ic.ac.uk>, jensting@ee.ic.ac.uk (Jens Tingleff) writes:
> #define SIZ 1000
> 
> {
>   double m[SIZ][SIZ];
> 
> Thinking about it, the auto declared matrix with 1000000 elements may have
> something to do with it... .
> 

You should check out setrlimit(2).



Boyd Roberts			boyd@prl.dec.com

``When the going gets wierd, the weird turn pro...''
From: smith@clion.shr.dec.com (SHR Ecad group)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Help setting up Prestoserve
Date: 7 Apr 92 11:32:08 GMT
Reply-To: smith@clion.shr.dec.com (SHR Ecad group)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp., Shrewsbury, Ma.

Here's what I have on our DECsystem 5500... I have this in my /etc/rc.local...


[ -f /usr/etc/presto ] && {
 /usr/etc/presto -u & echo  ' Presto Enabled' >/dev/console

--
--------------------------------------
Joe Smith

Internet: joe@shr.dec.com                      UUCP: !decwrl!shr.dec.com!joe

Digital Equipment Corporation
Northeast Technology Center,
333 South St.
Shrewsbury, Ma. 01545-4112
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: dagrawal@black.clarku.edu (Dileep Agrawal)
Subject: How to append signature to ELM 2.3 PL11
Keywords: ELM
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:32:16 GMT

We use ELM 2.3 PL11 as the mail manager in our ULTRIX system. Can anyone tell
me how to configure ELM so that it will automatically append the .signature
file at the end of the outgoing message?

Thanks in advance.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dileep Agrawal                      dagrawal@black.clarku.edu
Clark University                    (508) 795-6193
950 Main St. Box 643
Worcester, MA 01610
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dileep Agrawal                      dagrawal@black.clarku.edu
Clark University                    (508) 795-6193
950 Main St. Box 643
Xref: sparky comp.unix.ultrix:3800 comp.sys.dec:2526
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: Disk Partitioning (was Re: capacity of an rz57?)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.sys.dec
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:48:52 GMT

In article <s4gcgINNbvh@agate.berkeley.edu> forrest@nobozo.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Forrest) writes:
>That's for sure. I've come up with default partitions for each kind
>of disk I have in my shop that use full cylinders, at least according
>to my understanding of disk geometry. It's a big pain having to go
>through the "System Management" installation option for every system
>I install.

You should be aware that some newer SCSI disks have a different number
of sectors per cylinder (more on the outside cylinders), so doing all
those calculations would be useless.  I'm not sure what disks are that
way though. 

I believe this has been discussed before on comp.unix.ultrix and the
consensus was that it doesn't make much of a difference any more.


Mike Iglesias                        Internet:    iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu
University of California, Irvine     BITNET:      iglesias@uci
Office of Academic Computing         uucp:        ...!ucbvax!ucivax!iglesias
Distributed Computing Support        phone:       (714) 856-6926
Xref: sparky comp.unix.ultrix:3731 comp.windows.x:9638
From: osyjm@coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.windows.x
Subject: xauth question
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:28:11 GMT
Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering, Bozeman MT, 59717



Where does the big hex string that's used to add displays to xauth come
from?

My compiled xdm seems to be ignoring my 'DisplayManager*authorize: false'
line... (Syntax/spelling from memory, it's beside the point).  Which is
OK.  (Even running xdm in debug mode shows that it parses the line
correctly, but then still tries to use .Xauthority on a login...  Oh well).

So I login as root from the X terminal, and it creates a /.Xauthority
file.  Fine.  I 'xauth -extract' it or somesuch, and create my own 
.Xauthority file...  Part of my creating my own .Xauthority involved my
typing in some monster long hex string as the last parameter to xauth.
Where'd it come from?

This is a DS5000/240, Ultrix 4.2a, MIT X11R4 xdm (not dec supplied unsupported),
going to an NCD17c X terminal.

The manpage on xauth goes into great detail about having an even number
of hex digits, and other crap, but the other files section doesn't mention
that it gets this number from some file....

-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@{cs,coe}.montana.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.dcom.modems
From: murray@canstar.com (Murray S. Kucherawy)
Subject: Hayes modem on a DECstation 5000/125
Organization: A Guest of Canstar Communications
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:04:35 GMT

Hi out there.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I've tried
everything I can think of, so hopefully someone who's experienced this
problem can shed some light on this.

I'm trying to set up UUCP on a DECstation 5000/125.  The modem is a
Hayes-compatible modem.  The system makes it dial properly, and the
modem gets carrier and everything, but it's not seeing CONNECT come back
from the modem when it gets carrier.  Eventually the system times out
and makes the modem hang up.  As a result... no UUCP :-(

The cable's fine, because I can take it off the CPU and put it on a
terminal, and everything works fine - I can see CONNECT come back from
the modem.  (Am I missing something here?)

I'd like to call DEC about it, but Hayes products are unsupported, so
they won't help me.

Any info at all would be appreciated!

advTHANKSance...

============================= Murray S. Kucherawy =========================
Ontario Hydro, Power Systems Operations Division, Facility and User Support
 murray@canstar.com / mskucherawy@watmath.waterloo.edu / murray@motto.UUCP
         "Monday is a rotten way to spend a seventh of your life!"
From: johannes@ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de (Johannes Viegener)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Talk from DECstation 5000 to Sun
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:23:46 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany

I have a problem with talk from a DECstation 5000 to a Sun
I get the following messages when using talk or otalk:

  Checking for invitation on caller's machine   --> never returns

  invalid protocol (or something similar. Sorry I can't test at the moment)

Anyone had the same problems? 
BTW: Does someone has successfully built xcomm on a DECstation ? :

XComm				4/03/92

xcomm is an X talk program that is also compatible with the BSD talk
program. It also has added features such as an answering maching,
conversation recording, and a host of other goodies.

Regards,   Johannes


-- 


+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| JOHANNES VIEGENER: johannes@ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de    Tel: (+49) 721-608-3133 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Universitaetsbibliothek Karlsruhe / Postfach 6920 / 7500 Karlsruhe / Germany |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.sys.dec
From: yeidel@tomar.accs.wsu.edu (Joshua Yeidel)
Subject: Disk Partitioning (was Re: capacity of an rz57?)
Reply-To: yeidel@tomar.accs.wsu.edu (Joshua Yeidel)
Organization: Academic Computing Services, Washington State University
|>from: peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce)
|>lines: 26
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 05:44:32 GMT
|>organization: Western Michigan University Academic Computing Services
|>subject: What is the capacity of an rz57?


|>
|>In looking at the disktab entry for an rz57 (ULTRIX 4.2A on a DECstation
|>5000/200) I noticed that ns*nt*nc doesn't equal the number of sectors in
|>partition c.  The values are
|>
|>   ns#71:nt#15:nc#1925
|>
|>and c is
|>
|>   pc#2025788:bc#8192:fc#1024:
|>
|>Does an rz57 really have 2,025,788 or should it be 2,050,125 (71*15*1925)?

Along the same lines -- I understand that partitions in 4.3BSD systems are
supposed to start at cylinder boundaries.  But examining the disktab entry
for (e.g.) an RZ57 shows that none of the partition sizes are even multiples
of the cylinder size.

from /etc/disktab (Ultrix 4.2):

rz57|RZ57|DEC RZ57 Winchester:\
        :ty=winchester:ns#71:nt#15:nc#1925:\
        :pa#32768:ba#8192:fa#1024:\
        :pb#184320:bb#4096:fb#1024:\
        :pc#2025788:bc#8192:fc#1024:\
        :pd#299008:bd#8192:fd#1024:\
        :pe#299008:be#8192:fe#1024:\
        :pf#596284:bf#8192:ff#1024:\
        :pg#614400:bg#8192:fg#1024:\
        :ph#1194300:bh#8192:fh#1024:
 
Wouldn't it use space most efficiently to have partitions be sized
to cylinders, as well as beginning on cylinder boundaries?

--
Joshua Yeidel               | yeidel@tomar.accs.wsu.edu
Academic Computing Services | All standard disclaimers apply
Washington State University |   "Believe it if you need it, 
Pullman, WA 99164-1226      |     or leave it if you dare..."
509/335-0441                |         -- Robert Hunter
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: osyjm@coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: DS5500, automount no workee?
Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering, Bozeman MT, 59717
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:06:30 GMT



I've just latched onto a DecSystem 5500, with the prestoserve, 128 MB ram,
the works.  Ultrix 4.2a

/usr/etc/automount flat out doesn't work on it.  It works fine on my other
nodes, but not on this one.  I created a simple direct map, did
/usr/etc/automount -f /etc/auto.master , and nothing happens.

No core dump, no bad status, no error message, no nothing, but
it doesn't work either.

I've tried copying maps from machines (4.2) that are using the automounter
fine, and they don't work either.  

But the hosts map works OK...

I've tried it from rc.local, command line, before and after starting
prestoserve, the works.  Nothing.

Any hints much appreciated.  I desperately need the automounter, and don't
want to learn amd quite yet.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@{cs,coe}.montana.edu