HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:36:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Annette says that putrefaction comes from bacteria or yeast not normally
present in the stomach unless one is seriously ill.

This is not usually accurate. Most meat is "aged" for flavor. Aging
is a polite way of saying the meat is left to putrefy, tenderizing
it and giving it more "flavor." Unless one is eating fresh Kosher
meat, one is likely to be ingesting massive amounts of putrefaction
bacteria every time one eats meat--and I don't even want to think of
those who like their meat rare or medium.

Putrefaction bacteria are usually held in the colon of the animal
by osmotic pressure, and when the animal is killed they saturate
the cells of the meat, even before "hanging" or "aging."

Then there's salmonella. According to the Department of Agriculture
about 37% of chicken carcasses carry salmonella, roughly constant over
a decade. Chickens are copraphagous, a polite way of saying they eat
each others' droppings. During slaughtering the birds' entrails occasionally
tear, allowing the bacteria to spread. Spraying the carcasses with
chlorinated water cuts down, but does not eliminate the bacteria. 
Moreover, current screening relies heavily on visual signs of infection,
yet bacteria cannot be seen with the naked eye. 60 Minutes did a
report on one poultry plant in Missouri where 58% of the chicken
carcasses were contaminated. Attempts at disinfecting these
animals have failed miserably.

According to a Newsweek article, "There are simply too many opportunities
for food to spoil, as every microbiologist has known since Pasteur" So
much for Annette's textbooks.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold)
Subject: Re: Chromium Picolinate vs. Chromium Chloride
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:28:42 GMT

rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>In article <TIMSC.92Sep3102617@aspen.cfsat.Honeywell.COM> timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com writes:
>>
>>Chromium Picolinate is "supposed" to improve the bodys buring of fat,
>>through reacting with insulin.  It's been awhile since I've read the
>>book the "Chromium Diet" check it out for more details.  
>>
>>I think it has been criticized that chromium supplements are not
>>needed, that you can get the same effect bye eating chromium rich
>>foods.  
>
>Which foods are rich in  Chromium????
>
Sources of chromium are beef, beer, molasses, brewer's yeast, grape
juice, offal and wholegrains, according to Minerals, Their Crucial Role
In Your Health by Miriam Polunin.  I seem to remember that the Nutrition
Almanac, which I can't find right now, mentioned raisins and honey as
sources.

If the objective is to obtain a certain amount of chromium, the cheapest
and easiest way is to buy a bottle of pills and consume them regularly.
Getting chromium in food is more expensive and time-consuming, requires
more knowledge, and makes it much harder to determine the amount one
is getting.  On the other hand, carefully choosing foods can be more
enjoyable and philosophically satisfying, and is likely to lead to in-
creased intake of other valuable nutrients as well, including perhaps
some as yet undiscovered by science.  Both approaches are valid.  I do
both, to be on the safe side.  (The nutrients I take in pills are con-
sidered safe in amounts larger than what I'm taking;  for example, I
take 200 mcg of chromium, and in Mega-Nutrition by Richard A. Kunin
it says chromium is safe up to 1500 mcg.  So I'm not going to hurt
myself by having honey and grape juice in addition to the pills.)

It bugs me when people seem to consider getting nutrients in food to
be the only valid approach.  I suspect that such people usually don't
bother to inform themselves, and end up not getting much of the 
nutrients in question in their food, anyway.  Example:  "I think I
get enough vitamin C in my food."  "How much do you get?"  "I don't
know."  To be sure, it is possible to know that one is getting enough
without being able to state the amount in grams or milligrams;  but I
believe that with most people who talk about getting their nutrients
in food, they don't know.  It takes effort to ensure that one is getting
a certain amount of a nutrient in one's food.  It takes no effort to
simply believe that one is already getting enough.

The person who "criticized" that book because one can "just" eat
chromium-rich foods seems to be trying to prevent people from reading
the book and informing themselves about chromium.  The probable result
would be not getting adequate chromium either in pills or in food.

Cathy Woodgold
woodgold@seismo.emr.ca  OR  woodgold@emr1.emr.ca
There is so such a thing as a free lunch!
(This posting is from me personally and does not represent
the policy of any organization.)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX)
Subject: Re: Chromium Picolinate vs. Chromium Chloride
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 01:29:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.185753.27802@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>In article <20122@plains.NoDak.edu> stenslan@plains.NoDak.edu (David Stensland) writes:
>>OK, call me stupid but is there any nutritional difference between the
>>two?  I've also seen muscle magazines tout the benefits of chromium
>>picolinate as a muscle strength wonder pill.  I'm very skeptical. 
>
>According to Atkins (of the low-carbo diet fame--some would consider
>him a disreputable source :-), the chromium in chromium picolinate is
>more bio-available than is the chromium in chromium chloride.  In
>other words, your body gets more chromium out of the former.
>
>BTW, brewer's yeast is the food source with the highest amount of 
>chromium.  But the folks who push chromium are often the folks who
>are full of stories about all the bad things yeasts do.  Caveat emptor.

Atkins' 1992 book contains an entire chapter on "yeast infections"
(more precisely, Candida albicans overgrowth beyond its normal range in
the intestinal tract).  His 1972 book does not mention the subject.

Atkins reports that 30% of his patients have Candida albicans overgrowth.

A slightly different view on yeast infections is presented in
"Super Nutrition for Women" by Ann Louise Gittleman.

Yeast infections generate a number of symptoms commonly associated with
everything from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome to Who Knows What, making
diagnosis difficult.

-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: Los Alamos National Lab
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:57:27 GMT

Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep9.191227.12199@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <43577@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> rw@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Robert Walker) writes:
>>For example should I take iron supplements and the like? (I suppose it can't
>>hurt...)
>
>Iron deficiency is very rare in men.  I don't think it's strictly necessary.
>A vegan diet (one with no dairy or eggs) is naturally low in B12.  It's
>prudent to take a supplement regularly, perhaps weekly.  I'd also want to
>be sure I was getting enough calcium if I weren't eating dairy products.
>William (?) Shurtleff, author of _The Book of Tofu_ and _The Book of Tempeh_
>actually fractured a hip from his low calcium intake over years and years.
>He isn't quite so blithe about not worrying about calcium anymore.  (Not that
>you have to be paranoid about this, but you should be aware of what foods
>contain calcium.)
>

[stuff deleted]

This may be a stupid question (and/or an FAQ), but is there anything
wrong with simply taking a multi-vitamin each morning?  The multi-vitamins
I take have all this stuff in 'em.  Won't that solve the lack of calcium
*and* B12 problem?

>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

srlee@beta.lanl.gov
From: andreaf@bonnie.Rational.COM (Andrea Frankel)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Vitamins / Minerals Destroyed by Cooking
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:05:02 GMT

No minerals are destroyed by cooking, unless you happen to be using a
nuclear reactor in your kitchen ;@)

I believe that it's primarily vitamin C and various B vitamins that
suffer most from cooking.
From: waynec@cascade.ens.tek.com (Wayne Clark)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: hypoglycemia-- TESTS
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:37:28 GMT
Reply-To: waynec@tektronix.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.,  Beaverton, OR


    I had the glucose tolerance test for hypoglycemia and this is how it went:

    After a 12 hour fast, I went to the hospital for the test.  They started by
taking a blood sample.  Then they gave me a glass of "Glucola", a very sugary
clear drink tasting like very sweet 7up.  After 20-30 minutes they took another
blood sample (I was feeling high on the sugar).  After about 20 more minutes I
started showing symptoms of hypoglycemia (shaking, weakness).  They took the
next sample and after analyzing it called the doctor to ask if they should
"bring me out of it".  He said no as he wanted to see what my recovery rate
was.  They had me lay down and only woke me for the now hourly blood samples.
I can't remember for sure, but I think the whole thing took 5 hours.  My arms
were like pin cushions and I had the worst headache I have every had.


	Wayne
-- 
"Out of the frying pan (hardware), and into the fire (software)!"			
Wayne Clark			uucp:  uunet!tektronix!waynec
Enterprise Network Services 	internet:  waynec@tektronix.TEK.COM
Tektronix, Inc.			phone:  (503) 627-5364
From: Robert.Holton@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert Holton)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: adequacy of a vegetarian diet
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:02:08 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

Just like to add my own anecdotal evidence to this thread, though I eat
dairy products and eggs so am not a vegan.

My two younger brothers, older sister and myself are all vegetarians, and
were brought up as vegetarians. We have never eaten meat. Physically we
are all in good shape, e.g. I haven't had to visit a doctor for anything
in the last 10 years. I'm a keen rower who competes at national level and
can cope happily with the 3-5 hours training a day that requires. I can
easily put on muscle, and never seem to suffer greatly from overtraining -
I suspect that's partly to do with being lucky with my genetics, but it
wouldn't be possible if I didn't help out my body with a good, balanced
diet. 

Educationally we've done well - my older sister went to art college and is
now working for the national maritime museum (Greenwich, London), I got my
PhD last year and am a lecturer in a Scottish university, one brother has
got his BSc and the other is well on his way to getting his. 

Despite the fact my grandparents were convinced we'd end up as stunted
retards, we've all done pretty well! If you were to ask me my honest
opinion as to how we would have fared as meat-eaters, I'd say that in all
probability we'd be exactly the same as we are now.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Caprenin, an artificial fat
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:49:44 GMT
Reply-To: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nan@ertou.ucsc.edu (Nan Ellman) says:

>
>
>I just got a "MILKY WAY II" bar which claims to have 25% fewer
>calories due to the use of caprenin "a reduced calorie fat made from
>natural sources." 
>
>I've never of caprenin before. The only fake fats I'm aware of are
>olestra and simpless. Can anyone tell me anything about this? 

If caprenin is a "reduced calorie fat" then strictly speaking, it is
not a "fake fat" at all.  Perhaps the candy bar recipe simply requires
fewer grams of caprenin than it would of other fats.  Or perhaps
caprenin has slightly fewer calories per gram than other fats do.  I
dunno.

-- 
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr., grad student & roboticist-in-training, CWRU

"If God does not judge the United States, then He owes |    My boss is a 
 an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah."   - Billy Graham   |  Jewish carpenter.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Allergic to read wine?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:03:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.064554.10297@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) writes:

   Wines contain sulfites, which some individuals are quite sensitive
   to.  I am told by a wine maker that sulfites may be added to wine
   as a preservative, but they're a natural constituent as well.  That
   is, you can't have "sulfite-free" wines, only wines with "no
   sulfites added".

My neurologist tells me that red wines also contain tyramine, an amino
acid which can act as a vasodilator.  This can be nasty if you are
prone to migraines (which is why it is on my migraine "no-no" list).

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Xref: sparky sci.med.nutrition:359 rec.food.historic:555 rec.food.cooking:16300
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.historic,rec.food.cooking
Subject: medlars and "bletting"
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:32:40 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: rec.food.historic,rec.food.cooking
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner) wrote in sci.med.nutrition:
> ...some fruits have to be "bletted" before eating, notably medlars
> and sloes.  Bletting corresponds to the early stages of putrefaction

Are you sure about medlars?  I've eaten them fresh in Turkey and Portugal;
while some varieties do look pretty brown and grubby when you get them,
others seem to be eaten just as they come off the tree.  Maybe this was
only necessary when medlars were grown in Northern Europe? - they used to
be a popular fruit in England, but are almost unknown there now and
certainly not grown commercially.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jim@sun0.elon.edu (Jim Murphy)
Subject: Info on MS
Organization: Elon College, Elon College North Carolina
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:51:47 GMT

Friend jut diagnosed with MNeed ftpable info on MS.

--Thanks

--
-- 
Jim Murphy			Campus Box 2235	
Voice : 919-584-2290	 	Department of Computing Sciences	
e-mail: jim@sun0.elon.edu	Elon College
e-mail: murphy@vax1.elon.edu	Elon College, NC 27244
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman)
Subject: (Belated) Welcome to sci.med.nutrition (+CHARTER)
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 00:51:10 GMT

Welcome to sci.med.nutrition.  This is a little belated since I was out of
town when the group was created.  Appended below is the charter which was
overwhelmingly approved.  A round of thanks to everyone who voted!!!

I noticed a question about what sort of discussion regarding vegetarianism is
appropriate in the group.  My answer is:  See the charter.  That's what was
voted on.  

As a general guideline, advocation of vegetarian diets for reasons other than
the health of the consuming species (as opposed to the consumed species :-)
should be directed to rec.food.veg, rather than sci.med.nutrition.

Thanks again,
Mike Coleman

==============================================================================

CHARTER

The purpose of this newsgroup will be to discuss food, food preparation,
eating habits, etc., (including medical, psychological, and social aspects) as
it relates to the quality and longevity of human life.

Though vegetarianism and healthy eating are somewhat associated, this
newsgroup is explicitly *not* for the discussion of the morality or immorality
of eating meat and other animal products.  These topics are adequately covered
in rec.food.veg.

-- 
--Mike Coleman (coleman@cs.ucla.edu), Lord High Executioner of Anhedonia-----
  In the '70s, you laughed at Frank Burns.  In the '80s, you voted for him.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: China Study
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:25:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Ro Schoenberg (dunno if "Ro" is correct or if my newsreader truncated
the first name) is free to eat meat, smoke, or do anything else
desired.  The cost is whatever consequences occur. However, it is
logical gibberish to assert that if there's evidence that meat/dairy
is bad for you, then those who point this out are also interested in
abridging anyone's civil liberties.

It is also legitimate to assert that those who continue to advocate
meat and dairy eating as "healthy" (I'm speaking of the meat and dairy
industries) in the face of such evidence are no better than the
cigarette manufacturers. Such assertion need not be (and in my case is
not) coupled with a demand for legislation.

I will go so far as to assert that the government has no business
subsidizing the growing and marketing of tobacco, and that such a
practice is an example of the evil use of political power for the
benefit of special interests at the expense of the wider public.
Should the evidence become clear that meat and dairy is as
harmful, I'd also argue that government subsidies to those industries
should cease.

David
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: horwath@rtsg.mot.com (George Horwath)
Subject: Re: Kidney damage/accelerated aging to gain weight [was: Weight gain]
Keywords: weight gain, excess protein
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:58:30 GMT

bradbury@sftwks.UUCP (Robert Bradbury) writes:

>These statements I agree with, but then Dean says:

>>After a heavy workout, EAT.  Calories -- low fat calories, at that --
>>are essential to growth.  Eat carbos and protein (minimum 1gm/lb of 
>>body weight per day).                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I must disagree with Dean unless he provides some scientific evidence
>to back it up for several reasons.  First of all, your body is very
>efficient at recycling amino acids into protein.  Arthur Guyton documents
>in the "Physiology of the Body" in 1964 that the human body can function
>perfectly well for a month with no vegetable or animal protein intake.

No doubt it was around this same time that the studies were done showing
that steroids do not help build muscle.

Of course, there's always the old exchange:


New Trainee: "OK, I'm doing the workout you suggested. What about diet?"

Bodybuilder: "Eat plenty of low fat calories and get at least 1 gram of
              protein per pound of body weight."

New Trainee: "But my doctor says I don't need that much protein!"

Bodybuilder: "Who do you want to look like - me or your doctor?"

:):):):)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well-informed people know it is impossible    |    Motorola
 to transmit the voice over wires.  Even if   | I speak for myself,
 it were, it would be of no practical value." |   not my employer
                         -- Boston Post, 1865 | horwath@rtsg.mot.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: side effects of niacin
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:14:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.020545.8540@dsg.tandem.com> paul@everest.tandem.com (Paul Duffy) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.145301.16259@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>I was told that using Niacin would reduce my cholesterol level.  
>>Whenever I use it, however, I break out in an incredible rash
>>and feel flushed.  These sensations only last about an hour. 
>
>Switch to Niacinamide and thaose symptoms will not occur.

Yes, but niacinamide has no effect on cholesterol levels, not that anyone
should be dosing themselves with niacin without medical supervision.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky sci.med.nutrition:164 rec.food.veg:8675
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Basic info: Proteins & amino acids (was: Sources ...)
Date: 7 Sep 1992 14:24:57 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Summary: Isn't this taught in Bio 101?

-*----
In article <1992Sep5.142422.7897@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> zuniga@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Ralph Zuniga (FREAC/CAR)) writes:
> I'm not interested in buying supplements of any kind but
> I'm interested to know what natural foods contain these 
> amino acids.

I would be interested in a natural (unprocessed) food that
does *not* contain amino acids.  

Let's begin with some basics.  It would not be unfair to say that
living organisms are protein machines.  There are, of course,
many other substances used by the body, but when some basic
biochemical widget is needed, it is usually a protein or a
protein hooked up with something else.  Collagen, which holds you
together, is a protein.  Cell walls are made out of lipoproteins
(proteins hooked up with fatty acids.)  Neurotransmitters, which
go to and fro when you think, are often proteins.  Enzymes are
mostly proteins. 

But what are proteins?  They are chains of amino acids.  They are
amazingly useful for two reasons.  (1) Depending on the sequence
of amino acids, proteins exhibit many different properties.
Some large proteins will fold over themselves time and again to
make substances that are springy, hard, or papery.  Some have
just the right shape to chemically bind substances in your body
that need to be carried from one place to another.  Some can bind
to cellular receptors, triggering or controlling an organ's
behavior.  Etc.  (2) Sequences of amino acids are encoded in
genetic material (which itself is *not* protein), and these
encodings are realized as proteins via a complicated pathway
mediated by RNA.  Each codon on a gene is a series of three
nucleic acids that codes for one amino acid.

The human body uses only a small number (22?) of amino acids,
from which it creates a veritable zoo of proteins.  The body can
synthesize some of these amino acids, but others (14?), called
the *essential* amino acids it must obtain directly from food.
Amino acids rarely occur singly in nature, but our foods are
plants and animals, which are also chock full of proteins, and
the digestive tract breaks these proteins into their constituent
amino acids, from which the proteins it needs. 

Different organisms are capable of synthesizing different amino
acids, and must obtain others from its food.  Humans, having
evolved as omnivores, can synthesize amino acids that house cats,
having evolved as carnivores, cannot.  Thus, humans can acquire
all the amino acids they need from vegetable sources.  But if a
cat is put on a vegetarian diet, it will die from a deficiency 
disease, because it requires amino acids that it cannot
synthesize, and that are found naturally only in meat.  

Russell
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition