HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sknkwrks@unlv.edu (Scott Alfter)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 14.4K fax/modem please
Organization: Skunk Works Software Co.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 04:30:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.013703.11796@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Rosen) writes:
>I've seen talk of the Supra and others and I'd like to find out a
>general concensus if I could.  Are that many people really having
>problems with the Supra or is it just a minority of users?

I think they're a vocal minority who just need to RTFM and play with
the modem settings a bit.  At a user group meeting last night, someone
got up on the mike and BSed about how he'd seen a 75% return rate on
Supras, on how they wouldn't connect to most of the BBSes in Las
Vegas, etc.  I countered that argument by saying there was only one
board in town that caused problems for me...and that one board (1) is
now out of business and (2) when it was still up, was using a USR
16.8K DS, a modem which probably had some problems of its own early on
(most likely related to its V.42bis implementation, because I could
get a plain V.32bis connect to that system with no problems.)

>What is the feeling towards internal vs. external?  Someone said to me
>that with an internal, should I need to reset my machine, I'd be
>disconnected from my session, unlike with an external.  Would this be
>the case?

I don't know if that's the case with clones, but the internal modem in
my Apple II drops carrier if I have to reset.  With the Supra
(external) plugged into my clone, if DTR is low, I can reset the
system with the modem off-hook.  (The modem could also be set to
ignore DTR, but I don't run it that way since the modem is used for a
BBS.)

I'd recommend an external...they cost a little more, but they can be
moved to different machines if necessary (while my clone was dead, I
used the Supra with my Apple...can't use the Apple's modem with the
clone, though.)

  _/_   Scott Alfter                             Internet: sknkwrks@cs.unlv.edu
 / v \  Call the Skunk Works BBS today!
(IIe (  (702) 894-9619 300-14400 V.32bis Apple II/IBM/Star Trek/Aerospace
 \_^_/  Ask me about SoftDAC--digital audio for your IIe/IIc! Apple II Forever!
From: chris@surfcty.com (Chris Johnston)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: How Good is the Supra-Rom Upgrade?
Keywords: Supra Modem
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 22:29:02 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Surf City Software, Orange, Calfornia - DUDE!

egreen@waggen.twuug.com (Eddie Greenside) writes:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanted to hear from the Supra owners about Supra's newest rom Upgrade...
> does it fix the automatic retain problem, as well as connecting to 14.4
> modems.  Basically, did Supra keep their promise when they announced the
> upgrade and what it fixed?

Eddie *

Yep, the rev J firmware really does a lot better than the older
stuff.  I had to remove the Supra from my system because of
continuous gross failures.  I mean, I could not get a transfer
be it UUCP or ZMODEM(PC) to work reliably.  The system would move
a Megabyte or so and crash - regular like.

I replaced the Supra with a PPI 14400FXSA and most of the problems
went away.  Yet PPI had problems of it's own.  You could not move
data so well on the transmit side in v.42bis for sour grapes.

They came up with the upgrade a couple of weeks ago to 1.15m
and it is now much better.  I had relegated the Supra to compuserve
(2400b) use and it was working well.  After the upgrade, I placed it
into high speed service again and it seems so much better off.

Well, now that the latest set of bugs have been swatted, I hope
I don't run into many more of 'em.

Now...  How about the Supra or PPI running SLIP or such to
a Telebit.  Rumor has it, it don't work...

Chris
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Trouble with ZyXEL auto-callback.
From: Greg Wettstein <NU013809@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 12 Oct 1992 09:52:29 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

I would be interested in talking with anyone who has managed to get the
callback security (*G2) working.  I spent a fairly frustrating evening
trying to get this working.

I made an entry in the phone table, placed a password (location 0) in
the password table and enabled level-two security (*G2).  The modem answers
the phone and connects but then does nothing.  After about 30 seconds it
drops the connection.  No amount of tinkering with the modem parameters
seems to influence this.

The modem I am trying to call-back to is a MultiTech MT-224E.  After
reading the somewhat limited documentation I have concerns that the
remote configuration/callback security features may only work between two
ZyXel modems.  As I mentioned the documentation I have is not very good
but it leaves me with this impression.

Incidentally I enabled digital loopback on the MultiTech (as mentioned
in my documentation) but all I get is garbage in that case.  Any
information or pointers would be appreciated.  If possible use the
address in my .sig as this machine is used for reading news only.

                            As always,
                            Dr. G.W. Wettstein
                            Oncology Research Division Computing Facility
                            Fargo Clinic / MeritCare

                            UUCP: uunet!plains!wind!greg
                            INTERNET: greg%wind.uucp@plains.nodak.edu
                            Phone: 701-234-2833

`The truest mark of a man's wisdom is his ability to listen to other
 men expound their wisdom.'
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: kimc@w8hd.org (Kim Culhan)
Subject: Re: UUCP 'g' must die (was Re: USR DS v.32bis 10-15% faster thoughput over the Worldblazer)
Organization: w8hd.org
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:33:28 GMT

How can I get this Taylor version on my Sun 4?
tnx
kim culhan
------
kimc@w8hd.org

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: USR ROMs, more/new information
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:05:56 GMT

Camz@debug.cuc.ab.ca writes:
>I'm interested in sharing my results with interested folks, but am still
>debating and curious as the the legal implecations of posting a
>disassembly of the USR firmware to a public forum such as this :-)

Err, probably the same as posting the binaries from Aces of the
Pacific.  You'd be posting their copyrighted code, even if the
comments were your own.  There is fair use, of course, but it doesn't
cover that much.
-- 
Politicians are like bull sperm - only 1 in 1000 actually works.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: wolfgang@netcom.com (Wolfgang Henke)
Subject: Re: Supra FAX modem (v32bis): can faxes be sent via AT codes?
Organization: Netcom
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:07:06 GMT

Fran Litterio (franl@centerline.com) wrote:
: I just recently got a Supra fax modem (v32bis) and I'm wondering if I
: can get it to send faxes by typing AT commands to it.  I have it
: hooked to the serial port of a SPARCstation ELC (runing SunOS 4.1.2),
: and I don't have any fax-modem software.  I want to send faxes by
: using the UNIX command "tip" to type directly to the modem.

Present day faxmodems do not accept ASCII characters directly for
transmission. This may change with Class 3 faxmodems, who will also
handle image conversion, but Class 1 and Class 2 faxmodems depend on
the DTE to do this conversion.


-- 
   _________________________________________________________________________
   Wolfgang Henke        wolfgang@henke.sf-bay.org       wolfgang@netcom.com
From: jlaiho@ichaos.nullnet.fi (Juha Laiho)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Do such BRAIN DEAD modems exist ???
Date: 16 Oct 92 05:42:37 GMT
Organization: NullNet r.y.

In article <1992Oct15.104108.3987@donau.et.tudelft.nl> andy@dutecae.et.tudelft.nl (Andy Verberne) writes:
>Has anyone ever heard of a modem which is capable of communicating
>with a rate of 9600bps to other modems using MNP5 data compression but ...
>which can communicate whith its host at a rate no higher then 9600bps?
>
Not just that, but a Finnish company called Nokia has made modems that
support data compression only with speeds LOWER THAN 9600. The modem
itself is v.32/v.22bis/v.21, and is thus capable of making 9600 connections.

..Wolf
From: hudgens@SCRI.FSU.EDU (Jim Hudgens)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Telebit 1600 -> Supra Faxmodem 14.4 fails
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:05:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University
In-reply-to: hudgens@SCRI.FSU.EDU's message of 10 Oct 92 15:52:28 GMT


Hate to followup my own post, but I reread the manual for the 
4th or 5th time, and double checked the settings, and ...

In article <HUDGENS.92Oct10115228@sun13.SCRI.FSU.EDU> hudgens@SCRI.FSU.EDU (Jim Hudgens) writes:
>   The remote supra's initialized with:
>	   at&FE0V0&C1&D2&K3&R0&Q5&P S0=1
  
This should have been at&F2.......  Everything works fine, now.

JHH



--
Jim Hudgens 			Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
hudgens@sun13.scri.fsu.edu
From: schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: ZyXEL's -- do they ever work?
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:23:34 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <PETRI.WESSMAN.92Oct4212902@hydroman.hut.fi> Petri.Wessman@hut.fi writes:
>
>Related to a similiar problem I'm having: does anyone know how to
>cause a hardware reset on the 1496-B model (the PC card version)?
>And what does the non-documented jumper on the card do (the single one
>that's all by itself near the speaker, not connected by default)?

You've found it.


-- 
_______________________________Mike Schuster________________________________
NY Pub. Access UNIX/Internet: schuster@panix.com | 70346.1745@CompuServe.COM
The Portal (R) System: schuster@cup.portal.com   | MCI Mail,GEnie: MSCHUSTER
From: john@cutler.com (John E. Babbitt Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: What modem is THIS!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:24:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cutler.1992Oct15.082423.310
Organization: Cutler & Company, Inc., Medford OR (503) 770-9000

In article <1992Oct14.220654.13267@samba.oit.unc.edu>, mcphil@med.unc.edu (Philip McNamara) writes:
> Help me Identify this modem. 
> Externally it is approximately 1.75 inches high by 7.5 wide
> and 11.5 inches deep.  It is white with a smoked plastic front 
> panel.  There are didoes (under the panel) labeled like this:
> 
>             HS | AA | CD | OH | RD | SD | TR | MR
> 
> On the right-front side, above the power switch there is graphic with
> the number 2400 between a horizontal red bar and a blue bar:
>  
>                      [[[[[[  <- red
>                       2400 
>                      [[[[[[  <- blue
> 
> On the left-front side there is an embossed V.42bis logo.  No other 
> external markings.
> 

Either a Zoom or InfoTel modem (both use the same modem).

Regards,

John E. Babbitt, Jr.        {UUCP: ...hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!cutler!john}
Senior Programmer/Analyst   {Internet: john@cutler.com}
Cutler & Company, Inc.      {Phone: 503/770-9000 (voice) 503/770-9014 (tt)}
Medford, Oregon  97504      {Disclaimer: What I say is my personal opinion}
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:14792 comp.sys.mac.comm:9855
From: rick@howtek.UUCP (Rick Roy)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: USRobotics Sportster gets awfully warm!
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 08:12:59 EST
Organization: Howtek, Inc.
Reply-To: rick@howtek.UUCP (Rick Roy)
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <wwf1.718094717@Isis.MsState.Edu> (comp.dcom.modems,comp.sys.mac.comm), wwf1@ra.msstate.edu (Bill Ford) writes:
] impact@crhc.uiuc.edu (Temporary Account for HP visitors) writes:
] 
] >We just got our USRobotics 14.4K Sportster with FAX... We've
] >noticed that after about 30 minutes of use (warm up time)
] >the unit gets rather hot.. The bottom of the unit as well
] >as the top of the unit is quite warm...
] 
] I just got my Sportster in today.  I have noticed a heat buildup too,
] but have not really worried about it.  A five year warranty is a five
] year warranty, right?

If it really gets that warm, I'd be sure my five year warranty papers
were *not* stored in the same flammable container (such as a house
or apartment) as the modem itself! >:^o

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Roy                     Magic is a sufficiently advanced technology.
Usenet:                      rick@phunt.MV.com

Disclaimer:  These are my views only . They may not be the views of my
employer. When I asked if my employer had views, I was told "No comment."
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: USR DS v.32bis 10-15% faster thoughput over the Worldblazer
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:26:04 GMT

tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:

>larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>> I just scanned my logs -- 1100-1200 cps using v.32bis on the WB
>> against 1420-1450 cps on the USR v.32bis for yesterdays calls
>> (again using uucp-g).

>Surely your WorldBlazer isn't set up right.  Even our ancient TrailBlazer+
>gets a consistent 1260-1280 cps on compressed news with UUCP-g!

I'm talking v.32bis.  We get excellent throughput with TurboPEP and
PEP (PEP - 1300-1400, TurboPEP 1800-2000)

I've posted my settings before, and I am open to suggestions -

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Practical Peripherals 14400
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:51:18 GMT

bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser) writes:

>I, too, am interested in hearing about people's experiences with these
>"less expensive" V.32bis modems.  I've been holding out for Worldblazers,
>but don't know when I can afford to buy them.  In the meantime maybe I'll
>try some other cheaper v.32bis unit.

I am realling considering the SupraFAX v.32bis modems..  I picked up one
of the new USR v.32bis/FAX modems and was shocked that it only supported
fax class 1 and not the latest, fax class 2.  It does of course offer the
blazing throughput as I've quoted on several occasions, but I really wish
I could use the fax under UNIX.

>Running a system full-time puts lots more stress on a modem than just
>calling an occasional BBS.

karl@ddsw1.mcs.com has had excellent results with the Supra modems on
his public access site..

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Dallas fax initialisation strings
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 23:23:14 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


A friend running a local BBS has an internal Dallas fax modem fitted
which he can't enable V42/V42bis on.

Is anyone running these modems on a BBS?

What settings are being used?



dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Hacking USR ROMS [4.2 - 4.1]
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:37:32 GMT
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745

edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:

>In article <Bw2FJq.n4t@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>>I hack on electronic things I buy all the time. I have a Radio Shaft
>>scanner. When I bought it, it had portions of the 800MHz band locked
>>out. I went in and modified it so that it could receive the full 800MHz
>>band. Others have modified theirs to add more channels, extra bands, and
>>even an interface to allow computer control of the receiver. Is this
>>illegal? Hardly.

>Unfortunately, you're wrong.  Modifying your scanner to receive this
>frequency band (used by celular telephones) is a federal crime.

I had an aircraft and modified my Kenwood HF rig by cutting a couple
of diodes to transmit across the entire band - up to 30Mhz -- which
enabled me to use the Kenwood radio to talk to New York when crossing
the Atlantic where there is no flight control center.  

I have a FCC license, station license and aircraft license.

Likewise, HAM rigs are often modified for CAF, Marine and Military 
use which is quite legal.  


-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: dgm@shell.portal.com (David G Metzger)
Subject: Re: +++ sequence problem with USR DS 16.8k
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/725-0561 (data)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:02:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.082236.8757@u.washington.edu> tbr@hardy.u.washington.edu (Todd Barnreiter) writes:
> issue the + + + escape sequence on my USR Dual Standard 16.8k
>I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up.  I want
>to enter into command mode, not hang up!  My old HST never
>had this problem.  I looked through all the settings and I
>can't find anything that makes a difference.  What's the
>deal here?
>
>-BarryB
>

   You have S14=001; set S14=000 as documented in the manual, on the 
quick reference card, and in the modem's on-line help screen.
--

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Dave Metzger
                                    dgm@shell.portal.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 06:46:51 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Silly Hayes bashing (was +++ sequence problem with USR DS 16.8k)

In article <1688@frackit.UUCP>, dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) says:

>In article <1992Oct10.082236.8757@u.washington.edu>,
>tbr@hardy.u.washington.edu
>(Todd Barnreiter) writes:
>>
>The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
>the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
>3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
>there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
>ok for him?

three pluses in a row does *NOT* trigger a TIES modem!!!
IT is the valid AT command code. (Preceeded of course by +++)
From: hudgens@SCRI.FSU.EDU (Jim Hudgens)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Supra - STILL Problems
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:53:15 GMT
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University
In-reply-to: ja2f+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 12 Oct 92 16:11:08 GMT

In article <keqVEQ600YV985vvpA@andrew.cmu.edu> ja2f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jinmo Ahn) writes:

   I just installed the new ROMs on my Supra v32bis.   After testing the
   modem with about 20 different BBS numbers, I found no significant
   improvements.  The modem still has problems connecting at high speeds. 
   Especially with USR DS modems - it either refuses to connect, or
   connects at 9600.

   Please let me know what your experiences are.

I'm using the 1.2C roms.

I've been playing with a pair of supra's and various other modems.
I'm really puzzled in that I can get a pair of supra faxmodem 14400 to
connect at carrier 14400, compression v42bis, protocol LAPM, and with
DTE speed on both ends set to 57600 (the local display shows
CD/LP/DC/144).  However, I can't get a simple test (timed with a
stopwatch) of approximately 46K characters (the first 1000 lines of
/etc/termcap) to go across at much more than 1100 characters/sec.  I
should be seeing around 1800 chars/sec at that carrier rate, and
perhaps much more if the compression kicks in.  I was hoping to get
closer to 2500 chars/sec or more.

Anyone have similar experiences?  Ideas?

Thanks.

JHH


--
Jim Hudgens 			Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
hudgens@sun13.scri.fsu.edu      

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,biz.comp.telebit
From: gerg@netcom.com (Greg Andrews)
Subject: Re: reasonable WorldBlazer S70 and S72 values
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:42:01 GMT

In article <0105015D.fp6je2@phngnc.Phonogenic.COM> wjk@Phonogenic.COM (Bill Keenan) writes:
>
>Are values in the range of 17155 - 18031 for S70 and S72 reasonable for
>a WorldBlazer <=> T2500 PEP connection? 
>

18031 is the highest S70 or S72 reading possible with the older PEP modems
like the T2500 and TB+.  Readings in the range 17000-18031 are what I consider
to be very good lines, unless echo suppressors get in the way.

>
> Is a single sample of S70/S72 after the UUCP connection is closed meaningful?
>

It will tell you the speed the modems were using when they disconnected.
It won't tell you if they began the connection at a different speed and
retrained during the connection.

>
> What is the range of values for S70/S72 on a WorldBlazer (ie. 0 - 23000
>or 0 - 70000+)?
>

0 - 25000-26000  (I usually see ~25500 on back-to-back tests)


-- 
 .------------------------------------------------------------------.
 |  Greg Andrews   |       UUCP: {amdahl,claris}!netcom!gerg        |
 |                 |   Internet: gerg@netcom.COM                    |
 `------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: snozer@cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Craig Jalkut)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: ZyXEL 1496E Availability...
Keywords: ZyXEL
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:42:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


I called a place called Athena Systems or some such in SF Bay Area and they
had what i think is a pretty good price on ZyXEL 1496E's but they were at the
time of my call out of stock and said they wouldn't be getting them in until
sometime like *next* friday. Me being the anxious nerd I am, I'm wondering if 
anyone can reccomend any other low price and trustworthy mail order places that
might have the ZyXEL in stock?
-daniel
.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: bkwg0457@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Whitlock)
Subject: Re: 40% Discount of ZyXELs
Reply-To: bwhitlock@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:13:06 GMT

fenner@postscript.cs.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) writes:

>In article <BvvuA2.J98@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bwhitlock@uiuc.edu writes:
>|I finally gave in and called, [to get contest.zip from ZyXEL]
>|and the file did not exist!

>When did you call?  When I called on Tuesday, contest.zip was right there
>in file area 3.

>  Bill

It was near the end of September when I called.  I don't recall which
evening, off hand.

-- 
    * * * * * * --> DISCLAIMER:  I speak only for myself. <-- * * * * * *
Brent Whitlock		Beckman Institute for Advanced Science & Technology
bwhitlock@uiuc.edu	Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
			University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:15192 comp.mail.misc:3414
From: rob@documail.UUCP (Robert Williams)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.mail.misc
Subject: International PC email
Keywords: ibm atari modem email dcom
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:34:50 GMT
Followup-To: comp.dcom.modems
Organization: Bell & Howell DocuMail Division, Evanston, Ill.

Hi,

I live in Illinois, and have two kids who live in England. I have an IBM XT
compatible, and my son has an Atari ST. I would like your suggestions on 
the easiest and cheapest ways for us to communicate electronically. (email or
some form of file transfer). Clearly,
if we both get modems, we cannot afford to tie up a phone line for long 
periods. Info on modem types would also be useful, as I believe the US
standard is not compatible with the European standard. It would also be
best if calls are normally initiated from the US end.

Your ideas would be most welcome.

Rob Williams  rob%documail@chg.mcd.mot.com
              (H) (815)-942-0609
              (W) (708)-475-6100 Ext 389