From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Socialism, again
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:14:39 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia

In article <1992Aug25.003220.25787@meteor.wisc.edu>, stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
> In article <1992Aug24.200445.16384@hsv3.lsil.com> mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug20.124634.27340@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:
>>>I don't think you quite understood what he meant. "From each according to
>>>ability, to each according to need". And not decided by little committees,
>>>but by the people themselves.
>>
>>Socialists and Marxists of various kinds seem to think of this little
>>formula as some kind of ideal.  The more I think about it, though, the
>>more pernicious it seems.  What you've got is a formula for slavery.
>>"From each according to his ability..."  Extract the maximum work out
>>of the slaves that they're capable of putting out.  "... to each
>>according to his need."  And only feed, clothe, and house them at the
>>subsistance level.  "Needs" aren't "wants", and obviously nobody
>>"needs" more than subsistance, right?
> 
> In contrast, capitalism establishes an enslaved class out of whom the maximum
> work is extracted without even enough compensation for the needs of food
> clothing, and housing. This is happening in the U.S. Unions are being busted
What bullshit is this? Is it our (capitalists) fault that some mentally lazy
people chose not to be educated? Capitalism rewards thrift. Socialism is
inherrently flawed : an equal distribution of all that is produced (this is
independant of state planned etc). This 'ideal' is the NUMBER ONE FLAW. This
'ideal' says equal ditribution, regardless of how much work is done, you will
always get the same amount. Hence, why bother working harder?
Socialism brought poor peasants off the feudal gutter on to the pavement. The
die-hards are still grateful. Their children, seeing that it is possible to go
inside the building are being held back since the building can't hold
everybody, so lets keep everybody in the rain so noone complains of "why not me
in there?" (according to socialist theory). Conservative theory lets only the
'born correctly' inside, regardless if they deserve it or not.
True capitalists make money, which makes tax money and hence deserves to enter.
Also, the true capitalist would take the risk of starting construction of
another buidling.

Capitalism requires brains and guts - loans are comparitively easy to get.

If you turn around and say that there is not enough educational facilites, then
I agree, this is indeed a travesty.
In a system they don't fully control (voted in), socialists make entry to
higher education damn near impossible for all except the VERY gifted and the
rich(who'd get in anyway). Those with a tert ed get better paid jobs and are
not likely to vote for socialists.
On the other hand, Conservative RW parties, under the guise of 'user pays',
also make it damn near impossible, so that only the rich children get places,
thereby maintaining their exculsive club.The wests current problems are caused
by parties being one of the either extremes.
Look at your history; the Romans were at their greatest when they had a
democratic capitalist republic. It all went down hill when lead poisoned
lunatics turned it into a far rightwing Empire.

The enequal distribution of wealth is a tradgedy of birth, caused by
animalistic tendencies to force bioparents to raise children regardless if they
have the ability or not. Poor parents make the situation worse. There are many
examples of poor kids becoming millionares - Andrew Carnegie quickly comes to
mind. It takes buts and determination, with a modicum of brainpower - why
should I hand over the fruits of my labours to some dumb lever puller?

> and forced to make concessions, the working person has no place to turn.
Have they ever tried getting an education? Complain to your local MP about
lack of incentives to get higher ed. (there are laws preventing age
discrimination, and what's stopping some from starting their own businesses?)

PS - I live on $80 a week in a small room in a small city getting a higher
education. I know that in twenty years time, I'll be living in a halfmillion
dollar house with a $200,000 salary if I put my mind to it and ACHEIVE!

- 
John McVey, Whyalla campus, Uni S.Australia
Enic Eng Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au, or try
9051467f@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au