Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:54:04 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 590

In this issue:
                                slogans
                     T-Shirt suggestion for GAYLOR
                               I'm bored
                                  ADA
                          Lance Ringnald et al
             HIV+ Republican Woman to Speak at Repub. Conv.
                   Les renseignements, s'il te plait!
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 588
        Important Announcement 4 GLB Stud, Fac, & Alumni Groups
                            gay republicans?

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@ATHENA.MIT.EDU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:11:47 EDT
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@cs.amherst.edu>
Subject: slogans

corywest@is.rice.edu (Cory Richard West) said:

> One slogan that we like a lot (but it's
> already been taken by a local organization) is: Love Knows No Gender.

So what?  No one has a monopoly on slogans; considering how excellent
this one is, the more people who use it, the better.

-
____ Tim Pierce                / The Queer Resources Directory: access via
\  / twpierce@cs.amherst.edu   / anonymous ftp at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu in
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / directory /pub/QRD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:02:00 -0400
From: 78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu (Don't damn me when I speak a piece of
 mind, 'cos silence isn't golden when I'm holdin' it inside...)
Subject: T-Shirt suggestion for GAYLOR

Cory, I tried to send you mail, but I couldn't get it through.  Hate to take up
net space, but here it is:

This was on a shirt I saw at an AIDS rally in Washington, D.C.:

	"Live simply, Love all."

I thought it was really cool...

Love and love all,

Tom Witherspoon

		*****************************************
		*					*
		*  I can see clearly now, the rain has	*
                *  		gone....		*
		*  	I can see all obstacles 	*
		* 	       my way...		*
		*   78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu	*
		* 					*
		*	    Tom Witherspooon		*
		*****************************************

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 1992 15:35:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS1991S@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject: I'm bored
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi all,

I'm another list-lurker who has decided to write...I've been reading the list
for about a year and a half now and enjoy most of the conversations but haven't
ever felt particularly compelled to write.  Of course I don't feel compelled
now, but I figured I'd try to break out of my mold.

First, thanks to Greg (right?) for the soap episodes..I was on vacation for
nine days and had to miss them...

Second, I need to know how to access IRC from my account...I don't have any
idea what to do..but now that we have no BITNET access, I can't get on relay
and I miss it terribly.

Well, actually, we have bitnet access...we just can't use the send command...

Let's see...I've been depressed lately cause I don't really like where I'm
living...Iowa.  The only gay scene here in Des Moines is the bars which for a
few reasons aren't working for me..1) I'm underage and can't always get in,
ans 2)all it seems is everyone is looking for quick sex and that's it...which
is fine in itself if that's what I was looking for, but, for now, I'm not.
3) I really don't like to drink all that much and nothing bothers me more than
being around horribly drunk people when I'm not drunk (the vast majority of the
time)

So, I don't know where to meet the type of people I want to...I assume they
are forced to go to the bars (all 4 of them) too, but I'm sorta shy I spose
and don't approach people easily so nothing productive ever comes out of the
bars.

Well, that's about it for now...maybe someone will comment and I can explain
details further or maybe not...thanks for reading.
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:39:04 -0400
From: will@rmy.emory.edu (Will Parsons)
Subject: ADA

Hey Netters,
	Just a little more info about the ADA. The ADA gives people with HIV
legal recourse against discrimination in employment, and areas of public
accommodation.Thus hospitals cannot refuse someone because of HIV status and
employers cannot fire someone because of HIV status. Employers are also
required to make "reasonable accomodations" for someone with HIV (such as
extra sick leave). However, some people including a couple of lawyers I
know personally, think that this law is a national gay rights law. THIS IS
NOT THE CASE! For example, here in Georgia, if an employer fires someone
because they are gay and that person happens to be HIV+ the employee has
no legal recourse whatsoever. The HIV status does not protect them from
anti-gay discrimination. Though this may seem as if the law protects only
those with HIV that are straight that has not shown to be the case. No one
in this state has claimed to fire a person with HIV because they are gay (at
least not yet). The ADA is already being used here in Georgia to fight for
the rights of gay people with HIV. So lets be aware of this and let our friends
know about it.
	Later,
	Will Parsons
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will Parsons                 |     " Anyone who says the show is
E-mail: will@rmy.emory.edu   |      'neat' has got to go"
                             |                 Madonna 1991
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:43:20 -0500
From: Mike! <mike.w.miller.40@nd.edu>
Subject: Lance Ringnald et al

Richard, here's what I wrote:

>In Gymnastics, watch for Lance Ringnald.  He is rumored (I believe richard
>mentioned this) to be dating one of his teammates (he's just an alternate
>these Olympics) and a mutual friend says that Lance is probably best called
>bi.

What I meant by this is that I too had heard from several sources that
Lance Ringnald is or might be gay.  A friend of mine who also is a friend
of Lance's said that he's actually bi.  I mentioned you because you
happened to beat me to the punch on this particular issue and I just wanted
to give you credit.  Not mad at all :-)

But while we're discussing Olypians, how about that Mark Lenzi?  Does that
boy have a body, or what?!  At 5'5", he's a bit of a stoop for me, but I'm
sure some vertically-challenged GayNetters out there could manage...

Mike!

***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***
*  ______  |  Mike! <=> Mike W. Miller           office:  219 239-8024  *
|  \    /  |  e-mail:  Mike.W.Miller@nd.edu    home/fax:  219 237-0788  |
|   \  /   +------------------------------------------------------------+
|    \/    |  Silence=Death                                Action=Life  |
*          |  Office of University Computing, University of Notre Dame  *
***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***

------------------------------

From: corywest@is.rice.edu (Cory Richard West)
Subject: Re: HIV+ Republican Woman to Speak at Repub. Conv.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:56:57 CDT

> Now we can have a heterosexual woman tell all about how she caught this
> evil faggot disease and how the government should do more to help the
> innocent victims of this lifestyle disease.
[...]
	Perhaps.  Or perhaps she'll be there in solidarity with all the
AIDS victims worldwide.  Perhaps she'll have something to say about
what it's like to be dying of a disease that has no cure and that has
been horribly neglected by our government.  Perhaps she'll help to
remind people that AIDS is a disease, not a minority group or
a punishment for a lifestyle.
	I don't absolve the government of guilt and I, too, have mixed
feelings about the huge amount of attention that heterosexuals get for
having this 'gay' disease and how tragic it is when they seroconvert when
_we_ have been dying of it for 10 years, but don't condemn one person
for the acts of a thousand others when that one person may very well be
all we've got right now.

					Cory West,
					Rice University

"And I counted them and cried..."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Loomis <ml3e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Les renseignements, s'il te plait!

Excerpts from internet.gaynet: 29-Jul-92 Republicans and being gay by
Michael Pastor using the account of David M. Pahnos@andrew
> If you look at the
>democratic platform carefully, it is distinctly republican in flavor,
>and if more lesbigay people would look at the founding ideas of the
>republican party, I think they would be shocked at how much more
>potentially pro-gay than the democratic it really is.

Excerpts from internet.gaynet: 29-Jul-92 Les renseignements, s'il te..
by romickle@vassar.edu
> I, myself, have struggled to understand the
> favorable relationship of individual rights and queer liberation (beyond
> shallow arguements of privacy rights) and have yet to have any gay
> republican or gay libertarian address the finer points of their ideology
> when I asked.  And why is it that these gay republicans and libertarians
> are (or seem to be) almost (if not exclusively) white and, more
> importantly, male?  My structural-Marxist tendencies are quick to come to
> conclusion, but I'm reserving judgement until I have more info.

I wish to  contribute my centrist Democrat thoughts on why the gay
movement had to turn to the Democratic party first.  Let's consider the
history of American Political parties.  We can then characterize
American Politics as struggle between two parties the Democrats and the
Federalists/Whigs/Republicans.
    Jefferson, the founder of the Democratic party, was what we may call
a secularist.  He wished to separate church and state.  He also felt the
policies pursued by George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, and John
Adams  favored the wealthy at the expense of the poor.  In his
presidential campaign against Jefferson, John Adams, who in his personal
letters expressed dislike for Christianity, attacked Jefferson for his
"atheism" and in other ways appealled to elements which we may Christain
Right today.  Basically, we may consider the Federalist as a coalition
between the Christain Right and the wealthier classes. The Jeffersonian
Democrats wished to appeal the "people" on economic issues and were
basically secular.  This situation should seem  familar.  "Same as it
ever was."  If ignore the issue of race (a very big thing to ignore)
which includes ignoring the time period from 1852-1868, and the period
late 19th century when economic issues totally overwhelmed the social
issues in importance, then the business/religous right coalition has
formed the basis for opposition of the Democrats.
    The business part of this coalition may even be slightly sympathetic
to human rights, but certainly it is not going to do anything to offend
the religious right part of this coalition.  (If one reads the editorial
page of the Wall Street Journal, one may feel I am being way too
generous here.  The Wall Street Journal is slightly to the left of the
rulers of Iran on human rights.)  Thus, we would be very wrong to think
that the is "potentially [much more] pro-gay than the democratic
[party]".

    Let me also comment on Mr. Pastor's talk of teh founding ideals of a
party.  I consider the idea of going back and attributings values to
past political leaders in the context of today's struggle to be a
heinously treacherous enterprise.  We probably should not even attempt
it, since we basically make up myths rather establish facts.  With this
in mind, let's consider the Republican Party which we can agree was
founded for good ideal.  Of course, its founding involved a quite nasty
war, but let's give it founders an A for idealism.  However, by the time
of its second president, U.S. Grant, the party was essentially already
had already passed from the abolitionists to the same people who had had
power in the Whig party.  Thus talking about the founding ideals of the
Republican Party as someway relevent to the current Republican Party is
somewhat like explaining the Catholic Church by talking about Judaism.
    If we wish to discuss the founding ideals of the Democratic Party, I
guess we would have to say that were the ideals of Jefferson and
Madison.  Mr. Jefferson led a successful movement to reduce the
punishment for sodomy in the state of Virginia from the death penalty to
castration.  (Has there been in change in Virginia since Jefferson?)
Thus, progress for gay people could be said to be founding ideal of the
Democratic Party.


Michael Loomis

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 588
Distribution: local
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:52:33 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

Tim Cook <timc@kbss.bt.co.uk> writes:

>Re: Bank of America / Wells Fargo

>Can I ask a favour to those who post addresses/phone numbers so we can
>write/call our support. Can you put the regular phone/fax numbers as well
>as the toll free ones. Not all countires outside of the US can dial toll-free
>numbers (we used to be able to in the UK but not any more).
FROM the QRD [which may not be accessible from the UK, but just email me and
I'll always get files that you want]:

ANYWAY, please help by calling the Wells Fargo Public Relations
Department at 1-415-396-3606 to give them a friendly boost
and a kind word or two of support.  Or you can write a letter of support and
send it to Karen Wegmann, President, Wells Fargo Foundation,
420 Montgomery St., San Francisco CA 94163.  Fax for Ms. Wegmann
is 415-397-2987.

                Karen Wegmann, Executive Vice President
                Wells Fargo Bank
                420 Montgomery Street
                San Francisco, California     94163

                1 800 242 4932


                Bank of America
                Human Resources Department
                P.O. Box 16290
                Phoenix, Arizona     85011-6290

                1 800 352 0495

Don't forget to call! They are no cost! We need to help corporate America
by giving them a nudge to go in the right direction....

-
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``No exam-cheating, pot-smoking, draft-dodging, privileged youth Vice-President
in a "Bush The Blamer" administration can speak with moral authority about
abandoned moral values and assuming personal responsibility.''--Jesse Jackson

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Important Announcement 4 GLB Stud, Fac, & Alumni Groups
Distribution: local
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:06:13 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

Brian S McConnell <71460.1571@CompuServe.COM> writes:


>What's more, the information that we gather will be ported into
>many media, and will be made widely available without many
>restrictions. For example, the information will be accessible
>(by early 1993) in voice, fax and videotex [possibly via the
>Internet] formats. And, since the information gathering aspect of
>the service is almost 100% automated, updates are processed
>immediately without operator error, are immediately carried
>through to the other media outlets, and allow us to provide the
>service at a very reasonable cost to the general public conducting
>searches.
Why not put the costs in the initial press release? Or atleast let us
Gaynetters know! Come on, Brian! :-)

>We currently know of approximately 450 glb student organizations
>in the US, and will be sending pre-registered mailboxes and access
>codes to them. However, we do not know of so many faculty organizations.
Is this list of 450 glb student organisations going to be vailable FREE in
the QRD or is Commonwealth planning on selling it?


>Send SASE to Commonwealth Multimedia, attn: University Guide,
>PO Box 365, Blacksburg, VA 24063-0365. Remember our information
>providers hotline is (703)951-GIDE [look for an 800 access number
>in Sept. 1992 when our public 900 service goes online]
So the 800 number will be free? How are you guys going to make money?

>5% of profits go to GLB charities
List of charities available on request?


Sounds like a brilliant idea to me! Way to go Brian! :-)

-
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``No exam-cheating, pot-smoking, draft-dodging, privileged youth Vice-President
in a "Bush The Blamer" administration can speak with moral authority about
abandoned moral values and assuming personal responsibility.''--Jesse Jackson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: gay republicans?

Excerpts from internet.gaynet: 30-Jul-92 gay republicans? Tim
Pierce@cs.amherst.ed (1701)

> Michael J. Pastor, who seems perpetually without an account of his
> own, writes from the account of "David M. Pahnos"
> <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>:

@now was that really necessary Tim?  What business is it of yours?



> It's unclear, then, what the Republican ideals ARE that you promote.

@It's clear to me and to anyone who knows anyuthing of history about
what the Republicans were founded to stand for.  Don't blame me for you
> lacking of historical perspective.


> And?  Whether or not each party's official platform is pro- or
> anti-gay (or better yet, "potentially" pro-gay -- is that like "a
> little pregnant?") is less important than whether the party's
> candidates and speakers adhere to those professed values.
> Republican leaders continually ally themselves, implicitly or
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> explicitly, with anti-gay causes and heterosexist rhetoric.  The most
> extreme example is that of the White House speaker who clarified that
> the "family values" Quayle has been jabbering about lately is a
> euphemism for anti-homosexual sentiment.  It matters little to me
> whether the Republican party platform is "potentially" pro-gay if nine
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> out of ten Republicans profess Quayle's, Dannemeyer's, or Bush's
> stances on homosexuality.

I'm not arguing with you about this point.  It's pissed us off as gay
republicans.  You hate the leader of this country.  Does that make you
hate the country as a whole?  Possibly.  If you really care, you will
try to change it while still maintaining your american citizenship
(which is why we have elections).  I (and many groups like the Log Cabin
Clubs) am trying to change the republican party every day (which is why
we have primaries).  You are also confusing "platform" with "founding
ideals".  They are totally different.  Platform is a document created in
the present, founding ideals are the core ideas and philosophies that
started the party.  What I meant is that the extrapolation of those
ideals along the logical course of philosophy is more pro-gay than the
original deomocratic ones.  And, more republicans are pro-choice and
pro-gay than you think (it sure as hell aint 9 out of 10..stop
stereotyping).  Those pro-choice republican women that showed up at the
dem convention didnt come to become democrats.  They're republicans,
through and through.  They're just pro-choice.


> so vote for your ideals, not your candidates
Well said, and presumably the reason that you're "a Clinton
Republican."

Yep.  Because the democratic platform is similar enough to republican
thought (economically and governmentally to a lesser extent: for
example: no mention of unions...just labor) and liberal socially (like
myself) that I feel comfortable with it to vote for it.  I also want to
see the Republicans out of the white house and out of the spotlight so
that we can regroup and go back to being republicans instead of
extensions of the groups that got us to the white house.  Do you think
the democratic party could have changed itself the way it has over the
past 12 years if they had been in the white house?  not on your life.

What you have to learn is that I have no control over the party
candidate once he wins enough delegates in the primaries.  It is his
supporters that managed (mainly through their wealth and supreme
organizatoin (the bigots are better at it than we are) to win him the
election.

Tim, stop reading what you want to hear tim, and what is written.  You
do that continually with my and others posts.  And I noticed that you
left quite a bit of of my post out that says exactly what I had to
repeat because you took my words out of context.

Here are some examples of omissions:

@It is not the party that has made it clear, but the leadership of the
party.  They are definitely not the same thing.  Some of us gay
republicans are really pissed off at the 'right-wing' stance the party
is taking, since it has nothing to do with being republican.

@THe party was formed to promote the ideas of small central gov't,
little legislation, etc.
(an example of some DAMN CLEAR ideals of the party)

@The extreme rightness of the party is mainly in response
to the overwhelming number of liberal Perot and Clinton supporters.
They thought it too late to get the liberals behind them, so they
decided to shore up the vote with the conservatives (especially since
Buchanan ws fueling the whole process).  Remember that there are
conservative democrats out there (Bob Casey of PA).  People have
forgotten party ideals in favor of the candidates.  If you look at the
democratic platform carefully, it is distinctly republican in flavor,


@I'm sure that the fired gay republican ultimately cared more for the
other ideals of the party than the issue of gay rights.  Gay rights is
only one issue, and it is a mistake to vote for a candidate solely on
one issue.  Even a lot of the pro-lifers aren't totally behind bush,
because they see the declining economy as more important than the
abortion issue (and I got this from the Christian Broadcasting Network
news program!!).

[and i have no idea why you omitted this...]



michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account
because he damn well wants to be

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
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