HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jefftep@cs.utexas.edu (Jeffrey Grills)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Maxtor 7213a update
Date: 11 Oct 1992 22:11:20 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: ozona.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: Maxtor 7213

In article <1992Oct9.093510@minerva.Prime.COM> peterson@minerva.Prime.COM (David Peterson) writes:
>jefftep@cs.utexas.edu (Jeffrey Grills) writes:
>> please forward all questions you may have to me, either here or in
>> mail.  if you have a maxtor 7213a, please tell me your tale...
>
>First off, my configuration:
>  486/33, 4M, 256K cache
>  Maxtor 7213, PCBA 63
[...]
>I tried setting HD_DELAY in hd.c (/usr/src/linux/kernel/blk_drv/hd.c)
>to 500, that seemed to reduce the problem slightly but it did not go away.
>I then set it to 1000, and haven't had a single HD-timeout error or
>filesystem problem since.
[...]

I pieced back my orignal system so I could return the parts to my friend,
so I'm back to my original system.

I tried this, and set the HD_DELAY to 1000.
I and attempted to make the kernel. To my surprise, the kernel
actually made from clean.  I logged on to tell the wonders of this tale,
and decided to try to make the kernel again while running ka9q (slip).
Well, it choked.  So, a delay of 1000 isn't enough in my system.  I don't
know if a larger value will fix this, but I will check.  It worked fine
while it was the only thing running in my system, but I don't know
how much I trust it.

I will call maxtor tommorrow and talk to them about this.  Maybe they
have a new PCBA version, and maybe they'll send it to me.  I'll
let you all know what happens...

BTW, my version is 63p1...  (that was in my original post)

-- 
-------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
jeff grills              | "Sometimes i see myself so clearly, because I
jefftep@cs.utexas.edu    |   see nothing at all.  This feeling of emptiness
Undergrad Lab, UT Austin |   flees my soul, leaving even less behind."  -me
From: johnhm@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: SCSI tape patches & Adaptec drivers?!?
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:22:44 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Oct10.071749.6120@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, ctne_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Chris Newbold) writes:
> I just grabbed the makeshift SCSI tape driver off TSX-11. I recompiled
> my kernel (0.98-pl1) with the new drivers without incident.
> 
> I then made a new device: st0 major 9, minor 0. However, when I tried
> to back up a couple of files to the tape drive with tar, somthing
> died with a GP fault. The included mt program doesn't work either;
> just hangs.
   The Major and minor numbers are OK and it ought to work doing things
like: tar cvf /dev/st0
  The mt utility worked for me too.
> I'm running on the AHA1542 drivers, 0.98-pl1, 8MB ram, 1 Fujitsu
> 2426F, 1 Quantum LPS105 and a Wangtek 5150ES. Oh yeah, it's a
> 486/33. Has anybody else tried the tape drivers? Are they known to
> fail on the Adaptec drivers?
  Although the tape driver is able to tar to and from tape, the SCSI
driver system is way too slow for the tape to stream. I don't much like
hearing the tape sawing back and forward across the tape heads so I think
I'll wait for faster drivers.
  My hardware includes:
     AHA1542B, Quantum LPS105, Quantum Pro105, seagate ST157, DEC RZ55
     Archive Viper 2150S tape, ST151 (MFM), 386DX25Meg motherboard 8Meg RAM
     running 0.98pl0

-- 

John H. Morris                          E-mail: johnHM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University Computer Centre       Phone:  +61 3  5654763
Wellington Road,                        FAX:    +61 3  5654746
Clayton 3168,
Australia.
From: tardieu@helios.enst.fr (Samuel Tardieu)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Kernel warnings
Keywords: kernel, gcc, warnings
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:55:12 GMT
Organization: Telecom Paris, France

I have successfully compiled and installed the 0.98.1 Kernel with gcc 2.2.2d.
But during the compilation I had many warnings like "i is declared but never
used", "pointer converted to int without cast operator", and ps doesn't anything.

Has someone already compiled this kernel ? I had to change the line gcc -static 
into gcc in the Makefile too.

Thanks for all answers, through E-Mail or News.

-- 
     Samuel TARDIEU  -  Telecom Paris  -  sam@enst.fr  -  (1) 45-81-71-97
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb)
Subject: Getting ingres going...
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 04:41:10 GMT


It looks like others are having the same problems I had in
getting Ingres going...  In order to save others some time, 
here's what I did to get Ingres going on Linux 0.98 + TCP/IP 0.8.1:

1.  Create an account called `ingres', password '*'
    su to ingres.
2.  Unpack ingres.lzh into ~ingres.
3.  Copy ingres.setup into ~ingres
4.  Unpack update1.lzh into ~ingres, then run fix.
5.  Go into source/iutil, edit the Makefile to delete references to
	-linet.  If you don't do this, the concurrency control stuff
	won't work.
6.  In ~ingres/source/support, edit destroydb.c to make it include
dirent.h instead of sys/dir.h, and to add the following lines:

#ifdef linux
#define direct dirent
#define rewinddir rewinddir
#endif

before main().
If you don't do this, destroydb will fail on an ext fileystem.

7.  In ~ingres/source/dbu, edit sysmon.c, change exit() to exit(0) in
the last line of systm_init().
8.  In ~ingres/conf, make allclean.
9.  In each subdirectory, make depend. (This requires /bin/ed-- it's
probably not necessary, but I wanted to make sure!)
10. In ~ingres/conf, make allinstall.
11. As root, temporarily make /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib
writeable, then run INSTALL.ME.
12. As root, edit /etc/rc.local to run ingreslock, after initialising
all the network daemons.
12. As ingres, run bin/usersetup to fix the users file.
13. As ingres, run bin/demodb.  

At this stage, it all seems to work.
	

			Regards,

				- Peter Chubb

Softway Pty Ltd, P.O. Box 305, Strawberry Hills, NSW 2012, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61 2 698 2322;       Fax: +61 2 699 9174;     Telex: AA27987
Internet: peterc@softway.oz.au	   UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!peterc
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: butler@cs.tulane.edu (Larry Butler)
Subject: How do I use the exfs?
Keywords: mkfs exfs
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:06:19 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-10593]: proteus

I read the FAQ, and I didn't find anything. Is ther a mkexfs commnd?

Thanks,
Larry
From: slack@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (David Slack)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:44:55 GMT
Subject: What's this LINUX about? FAQ?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux

	New to unix, just found out about linux, can someone mail me
a full description of the this os.  I would like to know some things like:

who wrote it,
what are its system requirements,
how much does it cost,
is it compatible with HP-UX
and any additional info that might be useful.

I have a 486 with 32M of RAM and want a UNIX os that I can use at home to
learn more about UNIX.  From what I have found in this group it seams that
linux has great graphics capabilities since it can run X11 v.2.  What kind of
video equipment does it need.  Can I use my HP-Ultra card and SVGA monitor?

Thanks,
Dave
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Use of zip instead of compress
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:33:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bw4p36.Eoz.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


I've been using zoo as a compresser, because it gives much better
compression ratios than compress does.  However for archival, I tar
files first and then zoo the tarfile.  That's because all of the
PC-based archivers I've seen do nothing to preserve the ownership and
mode of the files in the archive.  That's fine if it's a directory of
source code, but if for example there's a shellscript, the script
won't work anymore once you take it back out of the archive (because
the executable bit was stripped off by the archiver).  Similarly, if
you back up your home directory and then unpack it, all of your mail
files would suddenly be world-readable!  For this reason I'll always
use tar or some other Unix based archiver at the lowest level, and
then some other compressor.
-- 
Doug DeJulio
ddj+@cmu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: "15-OCT-1992 16:27:38.68" <nmp08@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de>
Subject: X8514 server update available?
Reply-To: nmp08@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:35:53 GMT

Hi all!

My question: is ANYBODY working on a new release for the X-server for 8514
cards that uses the new libraries (jump-4.1 & xfree86 1.1)?
I'm really interested in a new release. If nobody else is doing this I'm
willing to give it a TRY. It can be just a try because I haven't got any
programming documentation for my ATI Graphics Ultra card.
Another problem could arise with my limited disk space: only 90 MB
disk space left on my Quantum LPS 240 AT. Is it enough for the server sources?
Yet another problem: classes will begin on next monday (time is fleeting :-)).
So, if anybody is working on a new release or anybody else interesting in
doing the update please let me know...

Andreas
InterNet: nmp08@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de
From: mph@plasma.apana.org.au (Martin Peter Howell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: terminal on long cable
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:15:44 GMT

michaelw@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Michael Will) writes:


>subject: vt100-terminal on a rather long serial (rs232) cable

>The cable for rs232 should not be longer than 12meters, right?

According to "Managing UUCP and Usenet", the *practical* limits
for rs-232 are:

           Max Dist for     Max Dist for
Baud      Shielded Cable   Unshielded Cable
----      --------------   ---------------- 
110          5000              3000
300          5000              3000
1200         3000              3000
2400         1000               500       all distances in feet
4800         1000               250
9600          250               250


>9600 baud would be enough for the beginning, but the more the better ;-)

I run a twisted pair 22m cable at 38400 baud with no problems at all.

-Martin.
mph@plasma.apana.org.au
From: gg@jet.uk (Gordon Grant)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Help needed to get top/ps/free working on 0.98
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:12:57 GMT
Organization: Joint European Torus

I have updated to 0.98 and the system runs ok.

However top, ps and free fails telling me use ps -U and maybe recompile.
ps -U fails to find a file /etc/system.

I have recompiled the source. It says its for 0.97p2 (from mcc).
This builds without error but when I try to run free I get:

Symbol _swap_bitmap not found
Trying to read invalid address.

top gives a similar error but is looking for:
_averunnable and _low_memory.

Do I need a new version for 0.98 ?

-- 
gg@jet.uk                Gordon Grant             Jet Abingdon OX14 3EA UK
Fidonet: (2:253/170)     Voice +44 235 464792     Fax +44 235 464404       
- Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not 
  be construed as an official comment from the JET project.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Can I use gcc to develop MS-DOS apps ?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:05:05 GMT

Bill Parquet (billp@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu) wrote:

: # rm -r /msdos /os2 /windows.nt

No, Bill, you got it wrong.  This way, you don't have to answer any stupid
questions:

rm -rf /msdos /os2 /windows.nt
     ^

     :) :) :) :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG                  erc@apple.com                     801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: hlu@EECS.WSU.EDU (H.J. Lu)
Subject: Re: problem with GCC 
Organization: School Of EECS, Washington State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:58:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.144006.16347@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, hayes@cpsin2.cps.msu.edu (Hayes John H) writes:
|> I'm using gcc 2.2.2d and linux .98. Occasionally, when I run a small
|> program created with gcc, function printf won't produce any output on
|> the screen unless I specify the full path to the binary when I run it,
|> e.g. #test will produce no output on the screen, however
|> #/home/usr/jhh/test will produce output on the screen. To be honest,
|> I've been logging in as root, as I'm having problems getting Xwindows to
|> run for anyother user than root. I'm working on this also.
|> 
|> If anyone can shed some light on my printf problem I'e appreciate it.
|> 
|> Thanks, John Hayes 


`test' is a builtin cmd for some shells.

H.J.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: maniac@hammond.cs.unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Subject: fstab, what should be there?
Reply-To: maniac@hammond.cs.unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 00:10:12 GMT

Could someone explain the fstab file to me?  I've got linux
running off of a HD, but there are still a few problems, like
the inability to mount /dev/fd0 ("mount: no such file or directory")

I can fdformat or tar to/from the floppy, but since the HJ 
distribution is in file-system format, I need to use mount
to finish updating my system.

my root is hda1, and hda2 is a swap partition.  my fstab contains
a comment line (headers), an entry for hda2, and one for fd0.

Also, is it possible to mount a file as a filesystem (read-only,
preferably)? 

I'm using the 98.1 HJ image and root disk, installed to a 
partion.

-- 
Eric J. Schwertfeger, maniac@cs.unlv.edu
From: hanson@pogo.fnal.gov (Steve Hanson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux on disc
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:16:14 GMT
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.fnal.gov

In <1992Oct12.121218.29455@athena.mit.edu> wmitchel@hannibal.atl.ge.com (Bill Mitchell) writes:

>	   From: wmitchel@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bill Mitchell)
>	   Date: 9 Oct 92 12:18:36 GMT
>	 
>	   QUESTION: I do not have FTP access, what can I do to get linux?
>	 
Not wanting to sound like an ad, but -
My very small loses-money-hand-over-fist newsletter UNIX USER has
a Linux service.  For $40 we'll send out a set of 10 Linux disks
that is pretty much the latest MCC Interim release, X, and the latest
released kernel.

Hanson Computer Consulting
1931 W. Wilson St.
Suite 342
Batavia, IL 60510

-- 
Steve Hanson - FERMILAB, Batavia, Il.
hanson@pogo.fnal.gov or hanson@fnal.fnal.gov

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: mmh@mercury.analog.com (Marc M. Hoffman)
Subject: Re: KCL
Cc: donadio@orville.psu.edu (Beaker)
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:21:00 GMT

In article <it*vH_ci3a@atlantis.psu.edu> donadio@orville.psu.edu (Beaker) writes:
Path: analog.com!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!psuvax1!atlantis.psu.edu!orville.psu.edu!donadio
   From: donadio@orville.psu.edu (Beaker)
   Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
   Date: 13 Oct 92 01:31:47 GMT
   Sender: news@atlantis.psu.edu (Usenet)
   Organization: Penn State Center for Academic Computing
   Lines: 10
   X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

   Has anyone made an attempt to port KCL/AKCL to Linux?  I tried and the 
   make puked magnificantly.  I tried to edit the makefile and headers,
   but nothing seemed to work.  I got clisp compiled, but I would like to
   get KCL working because it is used for a class here at PSU.

   --
   Beaker aka Matt Donadio| When you've seen beyond yourself--then you may find
   -----------------------| peace of mind, is waiting there--And the time will
   mxd120@psuvm.psu.edu   | come when you see we're all one, and life flows on
   donadio@wilbur.psu.edu | within you and without you.  --George Harrison

I spent some time building KCL and its not easy I had to modify gobbs
and gobbs of code and needed to specify how to read and write the
a.out.  But then to my demise I had problems with the way it wants to
produce lisp objects.  It wants to produce .o and .datas and then just
concat them together.  The linker hated this and so I made a few
modifications to the system that changed the way it concatateated the
files to concat in such a way that the .data became the last symbol-table
entry of the .o.

Well I got the system to boot and then one day durring my
porting experience with kcl in the debugger it ate my root disk
durring a garbage collection. I think that someone was trying to tell
me that all my work was trash and with a blink of an eye kcl took out
all my trash.

My disk was smoked and all I can say is thats that.  I have not
revisited the KCL issue since April92 but someday I hope someone else
will do it.  

I know now what the loose end was that caused the trash man to take
away my disk but I have lost the BALLS to try it again.

--
-----------------------
marc.hoffman@analog.com
From: dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: gnuplot-3.2 for X
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:56:27 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I managed to take the patches for gnuplot-3.0 (non-X) that were posted at
tsx-11 and integrate them into gnuplot-3.2, and at the same time change the
settings (and mess with a few things) to get gnuplot-x11 to work.

If anyone is interested, I'll post the patched-up source code to tsx-11.  I did
change a few of the original distribution files - since it was just for my own
use - so this will now probably only work under linux.

I'm still using 0.96/gcc-2.2.2, but I don't think there should be any changes
needed in the source.

It's a great graphing package, 2d & 3d.  It's not Maple or Mathematica, but it's
free and runs on linux.

Drop me a line if you'd like to get it.

-- 
Sincerely,

David L. Johnson                    ID:  dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
Christmas-Saucon Hall #14, rm 211        
Department of Mathematics

Lehigh University                   Telephone: 215-758-3759 (office)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: rjhe@hp6-ws1.oce.nl (Rob Hegt)
Subject: Re: Xega and system lockup
Keywords: HELP!
Organization: OCE Nederland B.V.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:00:35 GMT

In article <2681@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> bobk@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Bob Kirkpatrick (Spokane)) writes:
>I pulled Xega down from tsx-11 because the X11 with the SLS package
>wouldn't work for me. I expect that this is because I have a video
>card that isn't directly supported.
>
>What's happening is that startx loads up and starts X, and I get the
>grey screen with the X in the center. Then it goes black, and a
>rectangular shape appears (looks like a pencil drawing of a window.)
>The cursor turns into an arrow, stuck in the upper left corner of
>the shape. The system then halts without message. I have to reset
>and reboot.

No, you don't. Hit ctrl-alt-backspace and stop the remaining process (don't
remember which one) by hitting ctrl-Z and kill it ...
At least, this worked for me.

>
>Anyone know what this is all about? I have a 386DX-40 running SLS
>96c, and my video card is a RealTek 3106 --an Oak Clone. 1024x768
>VESA.
>
>I'd REALLY like this to work. Any ideas?
>
>-- 
>bobk@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Bob Kirkpatrick)
>Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane WA 99202


As you can guess I had the same problem, which I sort of solved by changing
the Xconfig mouse section and by making /dev/mouse a link to /dev/ttys1.

However, now I have another problem (of course!). I can use my mouse, but
it act's like it is drunk (like a scandinavian mouse on holiday). The cursor
sits in the upper left corner, and when I move the mouse, the cursor goes
mad: it randomly moves and every now and then a menu is shown and executed.
Finally, I guess when all 'events' have been processed it goes back to the
upper left corner.

Anyone any idea?


      ###########################################################
      #  This note does not necessarily represent the position  #
      #     of Oce-Nederland B.V. Therefore no liability or     #
      #      responsibility for whatever will be accepted.      #
      ###########################################################
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: propagation of HUP to shell?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:54:37 GMT

dlblack@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Black) writes:


>HUP signals received by a running process spawned from a shell don't seem
>to be propagated to the parent shell. This is true with bash and tcsh
>at least... 

>Is there any known fix?

  No, because this is correct behavior. No, really.  The shell is
supposed to get an EOF reading from a terminal that has been hung up
on.  Evidently, the linux terminal driver isn't correctly returning EOF
in this situation. (To be fair, GNO's terminal drivers don't either 
just yet :-)

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: ace3@quads.uchicago.edu (AA Acero (Tony))
Subject: Re: XFM 1.1: not work at all
Followup-To: comp.os.linux
Keywords: xfm linux
Reply-To: ace3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:23:57 GMT

This sounds like the problem I was having with xfm;
the solution was to compile xfm in a minix filesystem.

You wouldn't happen to be trying to build xfm in an extended file
system?  I never got it to work, and never figured out why; I went
back to minix file system and xfm has worked fine since then.

tony acero




-- 
Anibal Antonio Acero (tony) | University of Chicago | `To baldly go where
ace3@quads.uchicago.edu     | 5640 S. Ellis Ave.    | no one has gone before',
(312)702-8214 (lab)         | James Franck Inst 340 |  what Patrick Stewart
(312)702-8387 (office)      | Chicago, IL 60637     |   _should_ be saying
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux asks, is BYTE dead?
Date: 10 Oct 92 05:20:01 GMT
	<1992Sep29.193108.12410@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
	<1992Sep29.172016@tiger1.prime.com>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin J. Cummings (cummings@tiger1.prime.com)

Kevin> Why should BYTE know anything about the Internet? 

Because the Internet is important to people that must be informed
about the state of the computing industry and because BYTE must serve
its readers. BYTE would be doing a lousy job if they neglected the
Internet. Which they do not. There have been a number of articles on
the Internet, in Byte -- there is one is the most recent issue, in
fact.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: bmidgley%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brad Midgley)
Subject: SLS and privileges
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:34:45 MDT
Summary: they need help
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

I just installed SLS .98 and I thought I'd make comments.
The privileges on quite a few files don't work well for non-root
users.  (setuid and directory/file privs don't seem to always
be the way they were intended for things like the mail package, /dev/tty,
some of the includes, etc.)

Another comment related to mail... xbiff seems to think if my
mail file _exists_ that I have mail waiting, but the mail program leaves
a file there of 0 length when I've read it all.   Which program 
should be making allowances for the other?

email:     bmidgley@peruvian.utah.edu
If life was like those interactive games, I'd lose because I didn't
pick up the pocketknife I saw on the side of the road when I was 9.