From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:11:17 GMT

In article <m0n2YOg-00006xC@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
     rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com writes:

>I have a serious question.  O.K., it's pretty much in agreement that a
>plausable percentage of the world's population in gay oriented (approx.
>10% or less).

   Something like that.  Although I contend that, were homosexuality
not so vilified by our present way of thinking, more people would be
experimenting with it, and more would be discovering "Hey, this isn't
so bad," or "Hey, this actually kinda feels neat!"  Hopefully, a time
will come when people will give their feelings the benefit of the doubt
when those feelings happen to be homosexually oriented.

>It is this irrational fear [ of being discovered ] that has sealed the
>suicide attempts of many young men.

   Here's an interesting thought.  If, as we contend, 10% of the world
is not heterosexual, then the fact that 30% of all suicides are over
orientation-identity issues means that kids are THREE TIMES as likely
to _successfully_ commit suicide over orientation-identity issues then
over anything else.

   But, if, as Clayton contends, the population of non-heterosexuals is
only 2%, then, by the numbers, kids are FIFTEEN TIMES as likely to
_succeed_ at suicide over orientation-identity issues then over any
other.

   If, by the numbers, orientation-identity issues are THAT STRONG that
kids are killing themselves in enormous numbers over this ONE issue,
then Clayton has given us an INCREDIBLY powerful argument in favor of
inculcating some sort of diversity education in our schools.


>BTW...How do gays recruit?  Are their NAMBLA poster children with the
>phrase "Fags R us" or "Join now and be treated badly by your fellow
>humans".

   Well, gays recruit in two methods...  At the Pride Festival this
year, Queer Nation put up a HUGE sign that said

         QUEER NATION!
          We Recruit!

   The local police, who have become much cooler in the past several
years set up right next to the QN booth and put up their sign.  The end
result looked like this:

         QUEER NATION!       SEATTLE POLICE!
          We Recruit!           So Do We!

   The other method gays and lesbians use to recruit, well, you're
watching it in action right now.  Sixteen times in the past two years I
have received email or otherwise participated in recruiting.

   On USENET, some of us queers like to come into alt.sex(I will not
be ghettoized!) and talk about just how much *fun* it can be, being
queer.  And, every once in a while, one of us gets an "I'm curious"
letter.

   And those of us who get these letters are either willing to deal
with it, or we know someone who is.  It's a little bit of
recruitment("Here's what it could be like, and here's what you need to
do to stay safe, and no, you don't have to tell your folks, and no,
it's not forever, if you don't like it you can go back to the opposite
sex...") but it's nothing quite like what Clayton has in mind.  The
people who come to us have to be at least literate, although more often
then not they're actually quite intellectual.

>Another curiosity concerns a misappropriated notition that all gays
>indulge in anal intercourse.  From talking with some gay males, they
>dislike the act of penetration.  This being the case where is the so-
>called "sodomy" that makes homosexuality so bad?

   Now, be honest.  While 37% of all American women are taking it up
the ass for the husbands and boyfriends, only a similar 8% of Real
American Men (tm) are doing the same for their wives.  On the other
hand, a recent survey shows that 43% of all gay men have participated
in anal sex sometime within the last year.

   What this really boils down to for most men is simply the fear of
being "feminized" by being penetrated.  The ardent fear most men have
of homosexuality is, in its raw form, misogyny... a recognition that
they have the potential to be something they believe to be inferior:
the passive, receptive partner.

         Elf !!!
--
elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg)

Then, I was inspired.               God, thy will is hard
Now, I'm sad and tired.             But you hold every card.
Listen, surely I've exceeded        I will drink your cup of poison.
Expectations.                       Nail me to your cross and break me.
Tried for three years,              Bleed me, beat me.
Seems like thirty.                  Kill me.
Could you ask as much               Take me now.
From any other man?                 Before I change my mind.