HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu (Bob Wier)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Date: 14 Dec 92 03:57:09 GMT
Originator: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu

From article <Bz436L.2J9@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, by jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown):
> 
>   My $0.02 goes to the nylon "tugem" strap. I feel they are much safer. I use
>   a 2" wide one for pulling out  apple trees with. Works great you pull from
>   as high on the tree as possiable for maxium leverage.
>   One more thing, when pulling backwards, open your hood. If the chain/strap
>   were to snap the hood should slow down the impact to the people carrying
>   part of the vehicle. And definitely stay away from it when it is under
>   tension.
> 
>   Jeff Brown

    Out here in Northern Arizona and S.W. Colorado, I ALWAYS carry in my
    4wd a spade.  I found one which will fit up against the back seat
    crosswise.  The blade isn't exactly spadelike - it's more square 
    (more surface area) and very slightly angled with respect to the
    handle.  This is the best configuration I've found for digging out
    when you get high centered in snow.  You don't want anything with 
    too curved a blade or makes too sharp an angle with the handle since
    then you have to do a bunch more shoveling in order to give enough
    room for a proper "angle of attack" up under the frame.

    In remoter areas I also carry along a come-along (bought from J.C.
    Whitney many years ago just before one of their periodic bankruptcies). 
    Since it only has about 10' of cable on 
    the spool, I also carry an extre 25' of winch cable (can be coiled into
    a fairly small size).  I'd like to have a winch, but the come-along
    has been very useful a couple of times.  Interestingly enough I've
    never used it to get unstuck, but it has been used, for example,
    by a friend of mine who found that his foundation forms were about 
    1/4" off true.  So before he poured, he stuck the come-along onto
    one corner and pulled it back into line :-)

    I also carry a small size CB radio - although out here in the West 
    these days away from the Interstates you don't hear much activity
    so I don't know if it would do you any good calling for help or 
    not.  Being a radio amateur I also carry some other radios which
    are much more likely to do some good - maybe a reason to consider
    getting your "ticket" since the no - code license is now available.

- Bob Wier

  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
                   College of Engineering
      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | WB5KXH | fax:602 523 2300
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Date: 11 Dec 1992 10:40 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Summary: strap ("sling")
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

> There should NEVER be anyone between the vehicles except when all motion 
> has ceased.

Yes-siree-Bob.  I'd even append "...and one vehicle has closed the distance
a little, putting slack in the chain or strap."  These things can be totally
unfunny when they snap or come off under load.  Like, amputation city, and
you by definition in a situation where medical help is hard to come by.

>A winch is a much better solution than a strap or a chain.  Of course it's
>expensive.  It's worth it.

Looks kinda silly on a passenger car, but anybody contemplating even semi-
serious backwoodsing in a pickup or SUV should have one (and probably knows
it already). Short of that, any recommendations or comments on "come-alongs"?

Now for stupid low-tech ideas.  A spade (even a garden trowel or a little
collapsible camp shovel from the army-navy store is better than nothing),
a couple of boards or pieces of plywood a few feet long and as wide as a
wheel, and a piece of plastic or cardboard to lay or kneel on can make
the rescue of bogged-down vehicles (including your own) a lot more straight-
forward and pleasant.  While you're filling up your trunk with nerd gear,
don't forget something warm that you don't mind getting dirty, a pair of
expendable-quality gloves that give reasonable feel and dexterity, and some
kind of poncho or rainsuit in a visible color.  Oh, and a ski mask or 
stocking cap -- you lose a lot of heat through your noggin.  Might even want
to lay in a couple of those little "space blankets" and some candy bars or
something, just to keep you warm until help arrives or fuel up your rescuees.

You can also feel really stupid without a few basic tools sequestered in
your vehicle somewhere.  I vividly remember lying on my back for 15 minutes
in a blizzard up in the Sierra, samaritanizing some poor schmuck whose
tire chain had made a Gordian knot around the half-shaft and CV joint of
his rent-a-car.  I didn't have the ideal tools, but a screwdriver and a
pair of vise-grips and a lot of colorful language eventually did the job.

Happy motoring, and "stop and render aid"!
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy)
Subject: Wood Heating
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:21:53 GMT

    In talking to a builder about heating with wood, I mentioned that I wanted
to heat a house that I am planning to build partially with wood. I was looking
into wood burning furnace add-ons, but also was interested in a fire place.
He said that he uses a fireplace insert to heat his house. I always thought
that the inserts were inferior to stoves and furnaces, was I mistaken? (the
house will be between 1500 and 1800 sq ft.)
    Also, I asked if the movement of heat through the house becomes
a problem (like the living room with the wb fireplace is a sauna and the
bedrooms are iceboxes). He said that it would help to locate the cold air
returns next to the stove. Has anyone used this as a method to move the warmth
generated by the wbf to other rooms? Some stoves and fp's have warm air
ducts on front and sides, could these be directy piped into the cold air
returns? Any comments (general or specific to my questions) would be
appreciated.

							Mike M
							mvmurphy@attmail.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:26:06 GMT

In <11DEC199210402006@csa3.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:

>> There should NEVER be anyone between the vehicles except when all motion 
>> has ceased.


>Now for stupid low-tech ideas.  A spade (even a garden trowel or a little
>collapsible camp shovel from the army-navy store is better than nothing),
>a couple of boards or pieces of plywood a few feet long and as wide as a
>wheel, and a piece of plastic or cardboard to lay or kneel on can make
>the rescue of bogged-down vehicles (including your own) a lot more straight-
>forward and pleasant.  While you're filling up your trunk with nerd gear,
>don't forget something warm that you don't mind getting dirty, a pair of
>expendable-quality gloves that give reasonable feel and dexterity, and some
>kind of poncho or rainsuit in a visible color.  Oh, and a ski mask or 
>stocking cap -- you lose a lot of heat through your noggin.  Might even want
>to lay in a couple of those little "space blankets" and some candy bars or
>something, just to keep you warm until help arrives or fuel up your rescuees.

	When I lived in snow country I filled tuna cans with a roll of 
corregrated(sp) cardboard wraped around a wick.  I laid 3 kitchen matches
on top and filled the whole thing with candle wax.  Just as it cooled I laid
a square of sand paper on top.  I used one once to light a camp fire in
wet wood.  From then on I had several in each car and gave them to friends.

	For getting unstuck, old blankets do a good job and are easy to 
carry and can have other uses.

	DonB
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.consumers.house
From: jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Subject: Re: Dry well sizing
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:29:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


     I don't mean to sound stupid but.... what's a dry well. I thought well
     s are where you got water, and water is wet, isn't it.
     ; )
     Jeff Brown
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.consumers.house
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Dry well sizing
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:52:55 GMT

I need some advice on how big to make a dry well.  I understand that
the size depends on soil type and all, but any clues would be helpful.

The dry well will be used for a washing machine only that serves a 
family of four.  How big should it be?

Thanks.


thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
By my belief that government should be minimalized, I swear to oppose
the unrequested intrusion of government into the lives of individuals
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:03:47 GMT

In article <Dec11.153832.74981@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.095014.22619@wa4phy> sam@wa4phy (Sam Drinkard) writes:
>>jschafer@purch.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
>
>>>I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
>>>get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
>>>if necessary.
	<snip> <snip>
>A winch is a much better solution than a strap or a chain.  Of course it's
>expensive.  It's worth it.

	This is true. I carry a strap in my truck for most of my work... be
	careful that some straps are designed to flex and some are not.
	Many "tow straps" (as opposed to snatch straps) are not designed
	to flex, and will break if you jerk on them. Tug 'em straps or
	snatch straps are designed to stretch some and then snap back, dragging
	the stuck vehicle with it. With these, I'm told, some vehicles can
	get larger vehicles out easily.

	In terms of winches, yes they would be very nice and yes they are very
	expensive. A good intermediate solution is a hand winch. I have one
	I bought for $50 that can straight lift 2,000 pounds. That means
	it can drag a car weighing much more than that. I have winched my
	4Runner up hills that are too steep to drive up, without any
	power assist from the truck, with this little hand winch. The only
	problem is I don't feel that comfortable standing in between the two
	hooks, one of which is bound to come flying at me if the cable
	breaks. Ouch...

>      John Cooley

Peace, and lock those hubs...
-------
"This is where I wanna sit and buy you a drink someday." - Temple of the Dog
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.autos.driving
From: wsnell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Warren Snelling)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:06:10 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Dec11.095014.22619@wa4phy> sam@wa4phy (Sam Drinkard) writes:
>jschafer@purch.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
>
>>I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
>>get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
>>if necessary.
>
>>What's the net concensus? Is a chain better than a nylon tow strap?
>>What are the pro's and con's of each? Where's the best place to buy
>>either? 
>
>>Care to offer any advice on extraction techniques?
>
>>Thanks in advance for your comments.
>
>
>>John Schafer
>>NCR, MCPD-Columbia
>>West Columbia SC
>
>John, any of them will work.  Depends on what you consider pulling.  Any
>of the chains, cables, or straps will work if you don't try to pull a
>loaded tandem dumptruck :-)  In the same vein, if you abuse them, they
>will also come back and bite you - sometimes pretty hard too..
>
>sam
>
>

Pretty good advice, Sam.  Consider the following extraced from the
hometown newspaper last week.

	"Former Russell Man Dies in Hays Towing Accident

	... A semi-tractor was immobilized on the ice, and a 
pickup was being used to to the stuck vehicle.  A nylon rope for
towing was wrapped around the ball on the rear of the pickup.
With tension from the pulling, the ball snapped off the pickup,
sending the rope and ball hurling back through the windshield of 
the tractor cab ...

	The tractor, without a trailer attached, had little traction.
The 'same pickup, same rope' had successfully towed other vehicles
... so the fatal accident came as a stunning suprise. 

... "

Whatever you do, be careful, and consider the possible consequences 
of what you are attempting.

-warren

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: Re: :->
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:09:56 GMT

	Back on the farm we had a Ferguson 30.  This was the tractor
we used for small and odd jobs and as such either me of my brother had to
use it.  Often we would have rather have been somewhere else.  One day I
was mad at having to work in the fields with the 30 so I took it out on
the 30 by pissing on the radiator.  Bad mistake.  The 30 is a small
tractor and you sit low.  The fan tends to blow in your face and I had
that smell for most of the summer.  Years later, My brother and I were
telling tales and I mentioned the fergy and the smell.  He said that he 
would piss on it whenever he thought our father would have to use it but
realized that it was backfiring.  I wondered why the smell lasted all
summer.

	The other tractors were larger such as a UBUD or an M5.  With
those you could just stand and water the plants as you went.  A neighbor
had a Super MTA as his favorite.  He also chewed tobacco and would spit
down behind the axle.  Over the years the wheel hub and axle developed
a black coating.  I worked for him and used to ride the back of the tractor
down to the fields.  You learned to watch his head and as he turned, you
moved to the other side.

	As for trucks, None I drove had indoor poties.  I put around
300K miles on a KW VIT cab over hauling beer from CA to Spokane.  I also
dorve a Marmon with a 12V71T, A petercar with a cat, and a Frieghtliner
with a 290.  Never again.

	DonB
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:30:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.rural


>What's the net concensus? Is a chain better than a nylon tow strap?
>What are the pro's and con's of each? Where's the best place to buy
>either? 

A chain that is long enough to be useful will cost a lot and weigh a LOT.

However, DON'T put a hook, or any heavy object, on the end of any rope
you use for pulling.  If the hook should come loose when there is a lot of
energy stored in the rope, you will have a deadly missle flying toward your
vehicle.  The son of some family friends was killed by such a missle.

Have a Boy Scout or a rock climber show you how to tie some decent knots
instead of using a hook.

--
Duane Jacobson
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject:  :->
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:44:30 GMT


I love my green tractor, but there is one problem, there is no way to 
conveniently relieve myself when out on the north 40.  I decided that
there should be an optional toilet in the cab (such as on some long-haul
rigs).  I wrote a note to the manufacturer making my suggestion, 
I call it the Deere John letter.

Happy holidays, hope you got a smile. 

-- 

	...Wex
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.autos.driving
From: fvaughn@stpaul.ncr.com (Frank Vaughn)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: NCR Network Products Division
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.115432.27931@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> jschafer@purch.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:

>I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
>get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
>if necessary.

>What's the net concensus? Is a chain better than a nylon tow strap?
>What are the pro's and con's of each? Where's the best place to buy
>either? 

>Care to offer any advice on extraction techniques?

>Thanks in advance for your comments.


>John Schafer
>NCR, MCPD-Columbia
>West Columbia SC


I have heard of several cases of people pulling stuck vehicles w/ straps, 
the strap breaking, and the person in one of the vehicles being injured/
killed by the remnant of the strap.

If I don't have a chain and am forced to use a strap, I will open the hood 
and pull backwards to protect against this case.

Straps are okay for towing, but I would avoid pulling stuck vehicles out of 
ditches, etc., if possible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank Vaughn            frank.vaughn@stpaul.ncr.com
(612)6382756

NCR Network Products Division
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:01:46 GMT

In article <Dec11.153832.74981@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.095014.22619@wa4phy> sam@wa4phy (Sam Drinkard) writes:
>>jschafer@purch.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
>
>>>I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
>>>get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
>>>if necessary.
>
>>>What's the net concensus? Is a chain better than a nylon tow strap?
>>>What are the pro's and con's of each? Where's the best place to buy
>>>either? 
>
>>>Care to offer any advice on extraction techniques?

safety note:  my first job out of college was at CAT INC.  all trainees saw
lots of films on safety.  chains have a nasty habbit of breaking and then 
smashing anything they hit...often humans...which kills them.  straps are
dangerous as well..just make sure everyone is well clear of the area when
you tow someone out of something.

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ren@rap.ucar.edu (Ren Tescher)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: NCAR, Research Applications Program
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:53:20 GMT


	A popular story in the North Dakota Nat'l Guard goes like this:
During a blizzard a farmer was driving his pickup on a county road.
When he came to a bridge it was blocked by a snowdrift.  'No problem'
he thought, 'I'll just cross over on the ice'.  Well the ice wasn't 
thick enough and a few feet onto the creek his pickup broke through.
(He made it home okay.)  A few days later a Nat'l Guardsman was plowing
the road (storm duty) with a 'cat' with a winch.  The farmer was there
at the bridge trying to get his pickup out.  He asked the NG if he
would use the 'cat' to pull his truck out.  He said yes and they 
hooked the pickup up and pulled it out... well,... most of it!
It seems the water flowed in an around the front of the pickup and
froze solid with the rest of the ice in the creek.
ren
dona nobis pacem
Xref: sparky misc.rural:2638 rec.gardens:8538
From: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR SPECIFIC SITUATION
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:18:36 GMT
Reply-To: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Tennessee
NNTP-Posting-Host: langston.cs.utk.edu
Cc: Wmiller@Clust1.clemson.edu

walker miller (via larry london) writes:

>I am a blueberry grower located in Pickens County South Carolina
>...I/we would love to here ideas and observations...
>The gist of our thinking so far is frost is a significant risk
>factor...

i assume you're growing rabbit-eyes -- we have enough chill
hours here (knoxville, tennessee) for highbush, which i grow,
and which seem to have fewer frost problems than rabbit-eyes
do on comparable sites

>...we are adding 1.5 acres of blackberries over the next 2 years.
> Will also add raspberries ...

i trust you've either found a satisfactory way of dealing
with japanese beetles or have low beetle populations there

around here, many folks (me included) have given up and plowed
under our brambles -- beetle pressures are just too high -- local
doses of milky spore haven't generally made big enough dents in
adult populations; pheromone traps cause more harm than good --
techniques that are endorsed where numbers are small fail here

for some of the favorite beetle foods (e.g., plums), it's either
load the spray tank after every little shower or face complete
defoliation in only a few days/hours

growers who still raise brambles have resorted to omitting summer
pruning (which makes regular mowing difficult), so the beetles can
keep to the fruit and foliage on top and let the customers pick
under the beetle clouds (this still doesn't solve the problem
caused by the flies that rush to the beetle-damaged fruit)

i've grown a little bit of just about everything here, and have
found that blues, apples and, to a lesser extent, peaches are
probably the easiest

all this is, of course, strictly anecdotal

i note that many of your concerns are with canopy protection --
local growers here to the best of my knowledge still opt for 
full sun

best wishes with your operation

-- 
mike langston <langston@cs.utk.edu>
department of computer science, university of tennessee
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:35:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.220347.15694@news.columbia.edu> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
>	In terms of winches, yes they would be very nice and yes they are very
>	expensive. A good intermediate solution is a hand winch. I have one
>	I bought for $50 that can straight lift 2,000 pounds. That means

Those go for around $20 in this area.  Mine even has the extra pulley to take
it up to 4,000 lbs.  Like you, though, I don't feel safe having that much
tension on it and being between those two hooks.

Make sure that if you are putting much tension at all on a winch or chain that
you drape a coat or (preferably) an old blanket over it.  The wind resistance
will slow it down quicker and safer than your car or body would.

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"I want- I need- to live, to see it all..."
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:20:44 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD - MWTD) - Santa Rosa, Ca.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


  My $0.02 goes to the nylon "tugem" strap. I feel they are much safer. I use
  a 2" wide one for pulling out  apple trees with. Works great you pull from
  as high on the tree as possiable for maxium leverage.
  One more thing, when pulling backwards, open your hood. If the chain/strap
  were to snap the hood should slow down the impact to the people carrying
  part of the vehicle. And definitely stay away from it when it is under
  tension.

  Jeff Brown

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: WANTED: service manual for Oliver 70
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:49:32 GMT

I need to overhaul the governor on my old Oliver, and some other work
If anyone has a service manual they want to sell or will copy please
let me know...

-pete
Pete Lancashire
petel@sequent.com
Xref: sparky misc.rural:2630 sci.energy:6108 ks.misc:34