HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drau)
Subject: Re: What can I do with a 128K Mac? Re: What is this newsgroup about?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.114040.21627@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.204207.13411@news.columbia.edu> ia4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Imran Anwar) writes:
>> What can I advocate on this group? :-)
>How about a use for my Mac-128?

	Paperweight?		- Drau
From: rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drau)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: is this a place to flame ?!?
Keywords: Mac rules!
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:07:53 GMT
Organization: Fredonian Computer Network

In article <lba47nINN6l6@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu> werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) writes:
>
>	well, I just received and unpacked this PowerBook 100 2/20
>	and couldn't find any mention of TuneUp anywhere; not in the
>	system installed in the hard disk, not on the floppies, not
>	in the documentation, not even a flyer nor a postcard to send
>	somewhere at Apple ....
>
>-- 
>  werner@cs.utexas.edu |  ..!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | werner@UTXVM.bitnet
>
>              "Free Advice and Opinions -- Refunds Available"

	In the About This Macintosh dialog, check for a bullet next to the
system version : if it's there, System 7 Tune-Up was installed at the factory.
Also, there should be a Tune-Up file in the extensions folder.  If neither and
there's no postcard, crack away.

- Drau

"Answers are $1, correct answers are $10, dumb looks are still free."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Performa prices
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:07:54 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <15837@ksr.com> jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods) writes:
>Where are you planning to buy the MS/DROSS computers?  This thread will,
>no doubt, immediately be leapt on by MS/DROSS bigots who will quote prices
>based on what they saw this morning at "BACK OF THE TRUCK COMPUTERS, INC",
>where the prices don't include software, a meaningful warranty (the

Well, fortunately it is not a matter of choosing between
"BACK OF THE TRUCK COMPUTERS, INC" and Tandy.  Gateway,
for example, provides excellent support as well as competitive
pricing.  There are others as well.
-- 
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: mreisch@dreamtime.unm.edu (Christian M. Reisch)
Subject: Re: What can I do with a 128K Mac?
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 02:08:02 GMT
Organization: The University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, NM
	Re: What is this newsgroup about?


	Take out all the electronics and install plate glass.  The Mac
128 makes a beautiful office fishtank.


weather>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<          Hello				Christian M. Reisch	   <
<             my friend 			 mreisch@dreamtime.unm.edu <
<                 are you visible today?	  			   <  
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>government

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: is this a place to flame ?!?
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:46:13 GMT

Werner> == Werner Uhrig <werner@cs.utexas.edu> 

 Werner> well, I just received and unpacked this PowerBook 100 2/20 and
 Werner> couldn't find any mention of TuneUp anywhere; not in the system
 Werner> installed in the hard disk, not on the floppies, not in the
 Werner> documentation, not even a flyer nor a postcard to send
 Werner> somewhere at Apple ....

Well, the last machine I unpacked (a PB145) had a disk plainly marked
Tune-Up, with installation instructions on the label (not that it's
*that* tough to install, mind you) in the accessory kit.

It was also installed on the HD.

 Werner> and why in the world ever did they make a machine with such a
 Werner> slow chip ?!?  but, hey, I knew what I was getting before I
 Werner> bought in that department...  but it's such a waste and
 Werner> shame...

I would have given quite a bit for a 16MHz 68000 capable of accepting 8M
of RAM and an internal hard drive, even if it weighed 30 pounds, back
when I bought my Plus.  (Heck, I paid $600 for 2M of RAM back when RAM
was expensive, because I needed it *then* and couldn't wait.. sigh)

Slow is relative.  The PB can even run 6.0.x if you want to trade
features for {RAM,speed}.
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768        
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: davidson@cs.ubc.ca (Mark Davidson)
Subject: Gripe about AppleCare
Summary: Apple likes to scalp their users!
Keywords: too much on a student budget!
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 03:26:39 GMT

Hi all, since my newsreader automatically subscibed me to this group I think
I'll make a contribution.

Today, we received a notice from Apple to renew the AppleCare Warranty on
my girlfriend's Mac IIci. The ridiculous thing is that they want CDN$624.
With taxes that brings the total to $667.68! But I guess that's a small
price to pay if something actually does go wrong... and then your looking
at big bucks. However, we were thankfull to have AppleCare when the mouse
bit the dust a few months ago (and you know how useless a Mac is without
a mouse) and the local Apple dealer wanted CDN$95 for a replacement rodent.

This is far too much to pay on a student budget, especially
when they aggressively market these machines on campus with huge student
discounts.

The machine is only a year old, I guess Apple feels that it's going to bite
the dust soon. Macs are fun but only for those priviliged with large expense
accounts. Personally, I'll stick with Dos and Unix - I'm not afraid of
computers.


--
Mark Davidson                  | Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowlege?
davidson@cs.ubc.ca             | Where is the knowlege we have lost in 
University of British Columbia | information? 
Vancouver, BC, Canada          |                          - T.S Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: New systems MacII LC or Falcon
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:39:39 GMT
Reply-To: jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman)
Organization: Organization?  We don't need no steenking organization!
Discliamer: Upon my being captured or killed, my professors will
            disavow any knowledge of me, my statements, and/or
            my mission.


In article <1!!z_da@rpi.edu>,
Citizen oyakea@rs6210.ecs.rpi.edu (Amalaye Oyake) writes :
> I have decided to grace this News group with my prescence and transfer my 
>thoughts to yours. My problem is simple; I want to buy a new computer and 
>the options are a) A Mac II LC or b) The Atari Falcon.
>The Falcon is similar to a IILc in features and also includes a 56001 DSP,
>Midi ports, 16 bit CD capable sound (<44khz), Genlock support, 68882 co-pro,
>SCSI II, Apple talk lan, and  a built in sampler. I provided the above info for those who don't know about the system. Please give constructive criticism to  the issue I have raised. I would like to use my system as for music, dtp,
>vt-100 emulation, games and entertainment, word processing and programming.

  Lets look at software :

  Mac :
   10 zillion titles
  Atari :
   ? titles

  Hardware :

  Mac :
   8 years of experience with the same line of hardware.  Software written
   properly at the start still work.
  Atari :
   Yet again another new line of harware.  Maybe it can use the old 2600
   cartridges.  I wanna play ET again!  (Before you flame, I might be
   wrong.  Did I read that the Falcon _IS_ backward compatible with one/
   all the the latest Atari series?)

  If you want to be a pioneer, go ahead.  You will notice that these are
all the same arguments that were against the Mac 8 years ago.  They were
valid questions and are valid questions for any new machine.  You have to
take a chance and hope that the new machine catches on, so that more
companies will work with/on it.  If it does catch on, you've got a head
start on the new wave.  If it doesn't catch on, you've got a nice machine
to let the grandkids play on in about 30 years.

|--------------------------------|    "If you were happy all of your life,
|      J. Taggart Gorman Jr.     |     you wouldn't be human - you'd be a
| jtgorman@caslon.cs.arizona.edu |     game show host."
|--------------------------------|             Winona Ryder, in _Heathers_
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: mmunson@animal.es.com (Mark Munson)
Subject: Re: Mouse-pointer dissapears on powerbooks
Reply-To: cornhear@netcom.com (Jeff Miller) 
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:59:36 GMT

You must have been looking at a PowerBook model 100.  If you buy the low-end PowerBook,
you don't get an active matrix LCD display.  Most low-end PC notebook computers use a
similar display technology.

I use a PB 170, and you can clearly see the pointer move (or any other fast moving object)
without difficulty.  In fact, the display on the 170 is one of the crispest and clearest
that I've seen on a portable.

I havn't had a chance to look at a 100 up close, but I'm sure that you can put up with
a lot if you want to save some money.

[MGM]


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Gripe about AppleCare
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:57:42 GMT
Keywords: too much on a student budget!

In article <1992Sep15.032639.698@cs.ubc.ca> davidson@cs.ubc.ca (Mark Davidson) writes:
>Today, we received a notice from Apple to renew the AppleCare Warranty on
>my girlfriend's Mac IIci. The ridiculous thing is that they want CDN$624.
>With taxes that brings the total to $667.68! But I guess that's a small
>price to pay if something actually does go wrong... and then your looking
>at big bucks. However, we were thankfull to have AppleCare when the mouse
>bit the dust a few months ago (and you know how useless a Mac is without
>a mouse) and the local Apple dealer wanted CDN$95 for a replacement rodent.


Does the $625 include vaseline?
What a crock.  For $625 I could buy a spare 386/40 motherboard and 120mb
hard drive.
Will someone tell me how this group got created, or why?

I vote yes for its removal.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: Mouse-pointer dissapears on powerbooks. Comments?
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:11:36 GMT

There is a shareware program avaliable called "CursorBeacon" which will
stop annoying "cursor dissapearances." It is on most Mac BBSs and ZiffNet,
but I don't know if it is at any FTP sites as well.


--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: FORTRAN on MAC
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:48:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central

MK> == Margaret Keller <keller@oasys.dt.navy.mil> 

 MK> Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but I have yet to
 MK> run across a version of fortran for the MAC that doesn't require
 MK> super machine.

This is a feature, not a bug.  I haven't seen MPW COBOL yet either.
If you have a super machine either (1) your company paid for it so they
can make you do FORTRAN, and at least with a Mac you can play Spaceward
Ho! over lunch; or (2) you're rich, so why are you doing FORTRAN? :-)

 MK> In all other respects I love, adore, and delight in one of the
 MK> friendliest machines on earth.

It's so friendly it knows that ``friends don't let friends do FORTRAN.''
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768        
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: FORTRAN on MAC
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:04:02 GMT

In article <25033@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, keller@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Margaret
Keller) wrote:
> 
> Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but I have yet to run
> across a version of fortran for the MAC that doesn't require super machine.
> In all other respects I love, adore, and delight in one of the friendliest
> machines on earth.
> 

The two main flavors of Fortran on the Mac are Language Systems and Absoft.
The Language Systems requires MPW. Absoft makes several versions, some of
which require MPW, and some don't. For best performance on a slower
machine, I would stay away from the MPW versions. 

Jack Kobzeff     (jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov)
From: edwards@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Edwards)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: What can I do with a 128K Mac?
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:26:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: andy.BuMIrv.48n
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.

In article <1992Sep15.114040.21627@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> In article <1992Sep14.204207.13411@news.columbia.edu> ia4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Imran Anwar) writes:
> > What can I advocate on this group? :-)
> 
> How about a use for my Mac-128?
> -- 
> Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.

They will hold open a fairly heavy solidcore wooden
door even in the stiffest of breezes. Nautically
a small dingy can be kept in position in a moderate
current by attaching a heavy line to aforementioned
Mac and dragging along the bottom until it becomes
wedged in place. And of course after removing the
CRT tube and filling with equal parts of vermiculite
and top soil the 128K Mac can become the perfect
home for a variety of houseplants. ;-)

edwards@andy.bgsu.edu

-- 

edwards@andy.bgsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (J. Hardy)
Subject: Trepidations of a potential mac-user
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:45:05 GMT

It seems that I am about to enter the mac world.  I'm a grad student and due
to considerations of compatibility with other people in the department I am 
planning to purchase a macintosh system.  Up to this point I have used dos
machines.

What I'm looking for are some reasons for buying a mac.  Whenever I ask 
someone "why should i buy a mac?" I get answers like "theyre so user
friendly" which I find entirely unpersuasive.  I would like to be more
comfortable with my decision than I currently am, so I'm searching for 
things that make a macintosh superior to a similarly priced 80*86 machine.

Please dont tell me that theyre more user friendly, or better designed, or
any other sort of vague generality unless you care to say a bit more about
how these things will directly impact my use of the computer.  If you have
specific reasons why I should go mac rather than ibm clone I would dearly love
to hear them.

On a more specific note:  My current thought is to try to snag one of the 
few remaining PB100s out there, and then wait until after the new releases
in january to buy a desktop machine.  I understand that mac is planning
to upgrade their mid-level computers to a 68040 architecture and depending
on my finances at that time I plan to either buy one of the new machines, or
take advantage of the plummeting prices on discontinued models.  I would then
use the PB100 for traveling, and the desktop model for most of my work.  Are
then any problems that I should anticipate if I do this?  Is the PB100 likely 
to be largely compatible with the new machines?  Or will I have to buy
entirely different programs for the new machine.  For that matter how 
compatible is the PB100 with current machines?

Finally, having not spent the last ten yrs following the world of macintosh
I am somewhat baffled by all the different models that are offered in the 
used newsgroups.  Could someone help me out with a brief overview of the
differences between the various models that have come out since the macII
was introduced.  I'm specifically interested in models that are at least
roughly as powerful as the LC.

Thanks a lot,
feel free to either post or email your replies.

jim hardy
jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Trepidations of a potential mac-user
Date: 16 Sep 92 02:58:00 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <jhhardy.716600705@silver> jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (J. Hardy) writes:
>What I'm looking for are some reasons for buying a mac.  Whenever I ask 
>someone "why should i buy a mac?" I get answers like "theyre so user
>friendly" which I find entirely unpersuasive.  I would like to be more
>comfortable with my decision than I currently am, so I'm searching for 
>things that make a macintosh superior to a similarly priced 80*86 machine.

Unfortunately, you include nothing about what you are going to be using the
machine for.  Although I would argue that the Mac is much better than a PC 
for most any applications (not all), it would certainly help to be able to
give concrete examples.

1)  Though you said not to argue friendliness, the Mac does have a level
    of seamlessness and integration not found on the PC.  This includes
    a standardization of basic program interface that provides a very
    short learning curve for new applications.

2)  The Mac is in many ways more closely linked to the GUI world than the
    PC.  This means that common X-windows applications are available in
    more cases on the Mac (FrameMaker for one which I don't believe exists
    on the PC).

3)  For the purpose of getting your documents printing by printing houses
    Macs ARE the standard.  Some printing houses can take various PC files,
    but many cannot.

4)  Certain applications exist on the Mac that are not directly paralleled
    by PC applications.  The reverse is also true, of course.  Think C has
    been widely acclaimed as one of the very best C programming environments
    on ANY system (I can find nothing under UNIX that matches it for ease
    of general use and integration).  Also, for a VERY easy to use, FAST
    (in terms of your work, not its drawing), 2D CAD and technical 
    illustration, Claris CAD is unparalleled at least by anything I've ever
    seen.  Several grad students that I know have bought Macs just for the
    strength of these two applications along with the tight integration of
    the whole Mac system.  By this I mean specifically that, for instance:
    Claris CAD (and any other drawing package) can edit graphs from any 
    plotting package, these and drawings can easily have equations pasted 
    into them from equation editors, and the final product can be pasted
    into desktop publishing and word processing documents.  With apps that
    support publish and subscribe (most current ones) hot or warm links can
    be placed between documents from various applications.

I'm sure that better arguements could be made by others especially if you
bothered to tell us what you do for a living/research and what you will use
this machine for.

Jess Holle
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: Mouse-pointer dissapears on powerbooks. Comments?
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:41:11 GMT

In article <jfzn9#f.cornhead@netcom.com>, cornhead@netcom.com (Jeff Miller)
wrote:
> 
> 
> I was a bit intrigued by the idea of the Powerbook and so went to 
> a local store to check it out. I touched the trackball and the mouse 
> pointer dissappeared. It was all the effort I could muster to keep 
> track of the pointer. I thought, "Whew. Sure do feel sorry for people 
> who ordered one of these without using one first." 
> 
> Is this in fact turning out to be a problem/annoyance? Or do you get used to 
>it......

This is a problem with any passive matrix LCD display, to one degree or
another, regardless of brand. Apple has made the 100 and 140/145 with
passive matrix displays, and the 170 with an active matrix display.  

Yes, you do 'get used to it', but it can be a bother. 

Jack Kobzeff     (jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov)
From: jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Performa prices
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:00:06 EDT

ingemar@isy.liu.se (Ingemar Ragnemalm) writes:
>The recent announcements state that the Performa series is expected to
>cost in the range $1200 (ClassicII/P200) to $2500 (P600). How do they
>compare in the US, for example to the existing Mac line and to the
>MessDos computers?

Where are you planning to buy the MS/DROSS computers?  This thread will,
no doubt, immediately be leapt on by MS/DROSS bigots who will quote prices
based on what they saw this morning at "BACK OF THE TRUCK COMPUTERS, INC",
where the prices don't include software, a meaningful warranty (the
manufacturer doesn't plan on being in business when your machine fails, or
next week, whichever is sooner), or FCC Class B rating.  On the other hand,
to pick a computer from a retailer with an actual service department, but
admittedly high prices, Radio Shaft's Tandy 4020SX is a 386SX with 1Mb of
memory (3 less than the Performa 400), a 1.44Mb diskette drive, 16-bit SVGA
color, 3 16-bit expansion slots, NO hard drive (and NO SCSI, either), NO
microphone, NO sound output, NO networking software, for $1799; at $1499 (est)
the Performa 400 is substantially _cheaper_, you get *more* computer, *and*
you get to use software that doesn't cause brain cancer.

The PC bigots will immediately whine about how no one in their right mind would
pay Radio Shaft prices when "FIVE-FINGERED JOE'S DISCOUNT COMPUTERS" sells for
so much less, but apparently Radio Shack sells enough of these things at these
prices to bother stocking them -- perhaps not everybody is comfortable with the
notion of a $900 disposable *anything*, much less a disposable computer.  Now
Apple is offering people a chance to buy a *real* computer system for less than
they'd pay Radio Shack for the Yugo of computer architectures.
From: jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Performa prices
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:03:54 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep15.220754.19661@news.eng.convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes:
>Well, fortunately it is not a matter of choosing between
>"BACK OF THE TRUCK COMPUTERS, INC" and Tandy.  Gateway,
>for example, provides excellent support as well as competitive
>pricing.  There are others as well.

This is fortunate for would be PC users.  Dell recently announced a
wonderful support system (Apple could learn a few things).

That said, PC clones are NOT an alternative if you want a seemless
easy to use system (neither are IBM PS/2's).  Also, it is not possible 
(as far as I know) to get a 486 with a decent monitor, lots of RAM, and
hard drive space for <$1000, as someone claimed.  I have found from
PERSONAL experience that a 486 is required to get any work done under
Windows without feeling hindered to some degree by the lack of interface
speed (even then don't run AutoCAD for Windows or you will think that
someone sold you an 8088 with no math chip).

[I am currently writing this on a Quadra (though I find my SE/30 quite
usable).  It is a expensive beast, BUT it's performance is currently
unparalled on the PC front.]

Jess Holle
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy