From: sl930@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Ozone Man theme song
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:42:05 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <Nov.11.10.59.47.1992.15383@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
> sl930@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <Nov.9.11.28.21.1992.21450@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
>>> sl930@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>>>In article <Nov.6.15.06.45.1992.10055@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
>>>>> sl930@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>Okay, some examples: CAFE standards being increased to 45mpg.  Mcdonalds being
> 
> I don't agree that that is a bad thing.  Foreign cars get that kind
> of gas mileage. Why can't ours?  I don't think that the car industry
> should be forced into it, but they should be rewarded for anywork 
> done in that direction.

Then you disagre with Al Gore's proposals, then?  Have you even read his book?
 
>>pressured into using non-recyclable, non-biodegradable wax paper instead of 
>>recyclable polystyrene foam.  
> 
> That was McDonalds's stupid decision.  They should have changed to regular
> paper, like Burger King did.  Polystyrene foam may be recyclable, but
> it takes a tremendous amount of energy to do so.  Not really the best
> choice. (of course that's only one scientists opinion)

Burger King also places most of their food in waxed cardstock containers to
stop grease leakage.  These have the same problem as waxed paper.
 
>>People putting spikes in trees to kill loggers.
>>That is way too far!
> 
> I agree with this one.  But I don't hear Gore advocating tree-spiking.

Not directly, but when you preach that certain environmental issues are more
important than jobs, such as the Spotted Owl, you indirectly encourage that
sort of thing.
 
>>Gore deseveres it.  The main scientist who he quotes in his book, said that the
>>book was wrong and that he was misquoted many times.  Al Gore does not deny
>>this. Gore said that the scientist, who passed away, was taken out of context
>>when he made these negative claims on Al's book.
> 
> No Gore doesn't deny that a document exists, but he did explain that the
> remarks were taken out of context.  Do you know that they weren't?  

Hmmm... The statements Senator Gore makes in his book on my findings are
incorrect and misleading.  (paraphrase)  That seems a little cut and dry to me.
 
>>I agree that AIDS and Cancer are serious, and that the environment is important
>>as well.  However, it is time for truth.  I am tired of being a sheep and
>>listening to people who are not scientist (such as Al Gore) spouting incorrect
>>facts. 
> 
> So you just decide to belittle the whole cause.  Thats effective.  You
> don't agree with the captain, so you blow up the whole ship.

When jobs are threatened I disagree.  When billions of dollars are recommended
for something even you state scientist don't agree there is a problem with,
I disagree.  When politicians use scare tactics to get those funds, I disagree.

>>> I don't personally know any geophysists, but I know enough scientists
>>> to know that if you that scientists uncover facts, but they when they
>>> interpret them, they do so subjectively.  Meaning that the degree to
>>> which a certain finding is severe is often a matter of opinion.
>>> 
>>> I bet if you ask your dad that, he would agree.
>>> 
>>Guess what? Wrong again.  Dad, and other good scientists, will tell you that
>>science is supposed to be objective.  Hard facts are not things open to
>>subjectivity.  
> 
> 
> I know many good scientists.  They all discover the same facts and
> they all interpret them differently.  
> 
> Facts are objective.  What the facts mean to us, is often subjective.
> The level of radon in a basement is a fact.  The level of radon that is
> considered "acceptable", is subjective.  The whole in the ozone is a fact,
> whether this is dangerous or acceptable is subjective.  

So what do you do then?  My best thought is to go with the majority, and 2/3 of
the worlds scientific community disagree with many of the theories Gore cites
in his book (from a poll in NR of the scientific community).
 
>>Do me a favor, from now on, have some facts when you try to flame.  And before
> 
> Do me a favor and try not to be such a snotty asshole when someone doesn't
> agree with you.

I don't acre if people disagree, but you started the personal attacks.  Re-read
your first post.  Do phrases like "small-brained, sick minds, children and does
your mother know you are using her account" ring a bell?  They should, they are
yours, from your FIRST response.

 
>>you whine about being attacked, you set the tone for this with your comments
> 
> I don't care if you "attack" me, if thats what you are trying to do.  You
> are just showing me how juvenile and narrowminded you are.  

hmm.. since I look at facts and disagree with you, I'm narrowminded?
Interesting, if I agree with you, I'm smart, and if I don't, I'm
narrowminded...
 
>>about my mother, of all things.  
> 
> You, of all people, should realize that the comment about your mother
> was a figure of speech rather than a direct assault on an innocent party.
> I mean, since you are the one with the sense of humor, the one who
> knows how to "lighten up"...

I have no problems with people who disagree.  When they attack me and my family
personally, as you continue to do below, I lose my sense of humor.  
 
>>Here's a tip...don't ever enter a debate, unless your frail ego could 
>>handle the laughter.
> 
> Do you really think that I am intimidated by your childish rantings?
> I think you are the one with the frail ego.  Who is the one who 
> took off on a rampage when someone didn't like his silly song?  Who
> is the one who threw a fit when someone didn't bow down in awe of his
> "superior" mind even after he explained that he knows everything 
> because his daddy was a scientist.

Who's the one wwho started the personal attacks? re-read your first post, you
hypocrit!  And what, should I be ashamed that my father is a geophysist, and
that he and the team he heads misses Thanksgiving every year to go to
Antarctica and study the Ozone layer?  Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm proud
of him.
 
> Go ahead.  Tear into me again.  I won't respond though.  I find this
> discussion, and you, tiresome.  
> 
> Are you going to hold your breath now?
> 
> (I'm off to edit my kill file...)
> 
Ahhh, what a mature response.  Since you have no facts to argue with, and your
personal attacks aren't working, you resort t"plugging your ears" .  People
like you are what is wrong with this country.  When problems get to tough, they
ignore the issues and hope they will go away.  Well, they won't.  And if some
of the brilliant minds on both sides of all these pressing issues would stop
worrying about their political careers and just try to solve the problems, we'd
be a lot better off.  

Next time you flame someone, don't be childish and insulting if you want a
decent discussion.  If you don't want to be insulted, don't start it.

SL930@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections