HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stevem@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Steve McGowan (RA))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Scottish Book request
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:34:55 GMT
Organization: Computing Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland


	I want to get a book as a belated Xmas present, but can't quite
	remember the author's name nor the full title of the book.

	The book is called something like 'A year and a day' or 'Twelve
	months and a day', and is about a boy's childhood growing in Scotland. 

	If it helps, the book was used as the basis for the film 'Venus
	Peter' starring (I think) Ray MacAnally.

	Thanks in advance.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If your breasts are too big, you will fall over - unless you wear a rucksack"

							Ivor Cutler
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jamesp@cs.uwa.oz.au (James Pinakis)
Subject: Pynchon Query: Thanatoids
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:41:32 GMT

I've just finished reading "Vineland" by Thomas Pynchon, and would like
the opportunity to correspond with someone who has also read it.  In
particular I'm perplexed about the "Thanatoid" people in the book.  I
thought I had them all figured out but in the last 10 pages or so I was
completely spun-out by Weed Atman popping back up and the bit about the
Thanatoid tow-truck drivers and Brock Vond (I hope I haven't spoiled anything
for anyone).  It gave the book a mystical feel which I wonder if I shouldn't
have picked up earlier.

It was a great book, finishing has motivated me to have another go at
Gravity's Rainbow.

james
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au (John Newman)
Subject: Book catalogs. Code meanings?
Keywords: Catalogs
Organization: Computing Centre, Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:36:42 GMT

I am having some trouble deciphering some of the codes found
in antiquarian book catalogs. I was hoping to find some info
in the FAQ list, but no luck. Does anyone have a summary they
could share with the rest of us?

Some of the codes and descriptions are are: Cr. 4to, Super Roy. folio,
hf. morocco, d/w, Thick med. 8vo, verso, half red roan, chromo-litho,
collotype, demi 8vo in fours.

i.e. all very confusing.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ John Newman              J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au /
/ Computing Centre,           "There is less to this     \
\ Curtin University,            than meets the eye."     /                         
/ Perth, Western Australia     - Tallulah Bankhead       \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:41:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.152856.20362@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
}In article <1993Jan7.135722.24875@maths.tcd.ie> afcondon@maths.tcd.ie (Andrew Condon) writes:
}
}>I disliked the book but, in so far as the subjects were prescribing modes of
}>living for others personal lives, the tactic seems appropriate. Of course, not
}>all of those thinkers did so.
}
}If Bertrand Russell did not adhere to the prescriptions of his MARRIAGE
}AND MORALS, does it follow that MARRIAGE AND MORALS is any less useful or
}insightful a book? 

Not necessarily, no, of course not.

}But, really, you put your finger on the issue when you point out that not
}all of Johnson's INTELLECTUALS prescribed anything at all. (It's hard to
}see how Gollancz did so, for example.) Johnson's purpose is simply to
}trash people whom left intellectuals revere.

But Mike, I don't see how his treatment of Shelley succeeds in this at all!
Nor Ibsen.  Marx, yes, but not these.

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Cross-Writing (was: Books I Got For Xmas)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 JAN 93 00:19:55 GMT

I wrote:

>>Maybe.  I'm not so sure.  I think people are more demanding of a
>>female writer writing from a male point of view. 

Mike Godwin wrote:

>How would one test this hypothesis? 

I don't know.  It's just a gut instinct on my part.  Call it
feminist intuition.

One idea would be to look at the "canon" and see how many female
authors' books have male points of view, and how many male authors'
books have female points of view.  That would give you a fair idea
of how well-accepted "cross-writing" is for men as opposed to
women.  

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24269 sci.logic:2548
From: colinb@.ic.ac.uk (Dr C. Bridgewater)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Doctrines of Maybe: 7 truth values
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:43:52 GMT
Organization: Imperial College

In article <1ihu90INN42t@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Ian Heavens writes:
>	One of the post-Alexander Bactrian kingdoms (Kushan?) supposedly 
>	had the following 4-value logic:
           << stuff deleted >>

>When I was in Papua, the people I worked with had the following numbering
>system:
>	One
>	Two
>	Many

This is beginning to sound like a well-worn elephant joke.......

Colin

PS - see the end of the file for a rendering thereof (else hit 'n')


****************************************************************************
*  Colin Bridgewater		     *    c.bridgewater@uk.ac.ic   * \   / *
*  Head Robot Wrangler		     * tel:+44-(0)71-589-5111x4842 *  \ /  *
*  Construction Robotics Research    * BE KIND TO SPIDERS & SNAILS * --*-- *
*  Department of Civil Engineering   *  -------------------------  *  / \  *
*  Imperial College, London, UK.     *  alias 'the happy hacker'   * /   \ *
****************************************************************************



Anthropologist says that a tribe in Africa have a 1-2-many number
system because of elephants.... Why ? Well, it's possible to avoid
1 mad elephant quite easily. A brave and fleet-of-foot person may
avoid 2 mad elephants, but after that no-one has a chance. Hence
there is no need for them to have a higher number than the number
of elephants a hunter can escape from.....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Wall Street Journal
Date: 7 Jan 1993 16:43:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <C0Guv8.Eq1@panix.com> mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>Heather Henderson writes:
>> Miriam Nadel writes:
>>> Some of us find the stock market intriguing.  
>
>> firm for four years, and dang, those Big Swinging Dicks sure found the
>
>
>Incidentally, I've been working on Wall Street since 1985, and with the 
>exception of the book that Heather (obliquely) refers to (yes, there was 
>a book reference), I've never heard anyone on the street use the "big 
>swinging dick" expression.
>Mark

Somehow, I think Heather coined the term.  Heather, didn't you also coin
the term, Eurodick?  Although now that I think of it 'coin' is much too
round and female a term for this particular concept.  

 Mary Loveless  hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
nothing to do with the University of Washington.

*"Too much of a good thing can be *wonderful*."  Mae West
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: scottj@magic.dml.georgetown.edu (John L. Scott)
Subject: Re: shouting at robots prize
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:39:13 GMT
X-Posted-From: iamac-1.dml.georgetown.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <JMC.93Jan8212356@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU
(John McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> The prize goes to John L. Scott.  It was easy, because his was the
> only posting that met the conditions.
[...]
> Here's his contribution,
> although I was hoping someone would say that if children control
> robots by shouting, they will soon be trying to do the same with
> humans, illustrating it with some horrific scenarios.
[...]

Well, I had considered something along those lines but I decided to be even
sillier given that I was running unopposed.  However, I am kicking myself
for not taking what will surely turn out to have been the smartass
opportunity of the year.  I could have won by simply posting:

        This development is alarming.

Damn I wish I'd done it!

--John L. Scott

P.S.  By the way, I shamelessly prefer the Big Mac.
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Legal theory, Homophobia, and the Bible
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:09:49
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Distribution: world
	<1if16iINNcnr@ARGENTINA.AI.CS.YALE.EDU>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu's message of 6 Jan 1993 11:25:54 -0500

In article <1if16iINNcnr@ARGENTINA.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean P. Engelson) writes:

> Well, what exactly did the measures say?  I happen to be of the belief
> that it's generally better not to single out certain groups for a
> special "do not discriminate" status, both because this implicitly
> encourages discrimination against other groups not so listed, and
> because it affords certain sorts of grouping legal (hence, objective)
> status, some of which groupings I may not believe should have such.

One can, I suppose, argue that all civil rights legislation ought to
be abolished, and that it ought to be legal to discriminate against
whomever you please in whatever manner you please.  I don't agree with
that position (I think that the reality of employment and housing
discrimination is sufficiently hurtful to people that we as a society
shouldn't tolerate it), but at least it's consistent.

The Oregon measure, however, was worse than that: it singled out a
certain group for a special "*do* discrimate" status.  The Oregon
measure, which, fortunately, failed, mandated discrimination against
gays.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Paglia
Organization: Clark University
Date: 8 JAN 93 21:05:47 GMT

I wrote, about Paglia:

>>But so what?  Male writers, critics, and academics
>>have been narcissistic, boastful, arrogant, and egomaniacal for ages.
>>Why is it a constant source of comment in Paglia's case?  Ask yourself if
>>you'd be so quick to characterize her that way if she were a man.

Mike Godwin writes:

>I would just as quick to do so. Her extravagance in self-praise is the
>equal of, say, Norman Mailer's.

Probably true, although I think she has more of a sense of humor about
herself.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: rhogan@aludra.usc.edu (Ron Hogan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paglia
Date: 8 Jan 1993 10:54:10 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Heather writes:
>Michael McDonald writes:

>>Having seen her on several
>>TV programs, I must say that I find her less than impressive.
>>Her public discourse is so intractably narcissistic that the only *subject*
>>she strikes me as being in any way articulate about is that of  . . .
>>Camille Paglia.

>I continually find it interesting to see terms like "narcissistic" applied
>to Paglia.  Also, words like "boastful", "arrogant", and "egomaniacal".
>She is, of course.  But so what?  Male writers, critics, and academics
>have been narcissistic, boastful, arrogant, and egomaniacal for ages.
>Why is it a constant source of comment in Paglia's case?  Ask yourself if
>you'd be so quick to characterize her that way if she were a man.

I beleive the word you're looking for is "Oliver Stone".

Oh, you want authors?  "Harlan Ellison"
(I actually disagree with a lot of the negative portrayal
of Ellison, but the fact remains that it's there)

Ron Hogan

PErsonally, I blame TV talk shows.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pm@cc.univie.ac.at (Peter Marksteiner)
Subject: Re: Quotation from Waugh: BRIDESHEAD REVISITED
Organization: Vienna University Computer Center
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:51:45 GMT


>Does anyone know the derivation and/or meaning of the phrase
>
>        Quomodo sedet sola civitas
>
>which Charles Ryder utters two or three times in "Brideshead"?

It's from the Latin Bible (Vulgate), Lamentations 1:1 :

         How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how
         is she become as a widow! she that was great among the
         nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become
         tributary!


         Peter Marksteiner
         Vienna University Computer Center
From: rhogan@phakt.usc.edu (Ron Hogan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 00:44:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Tim Starr writes:
in response to Ron Hogan

>}It's like the Albert Goldman school of intellectual history-- not so much
>}sunlight being the best disnfectant as dragging historical figures through
>}the mud.

>They dragged themselves through the mud.  Johnson just exposed it.

That, of course, hinges on whether or not we agree on the nature of 'mud'.
The main thing, which Mike has pointed out as well, as that a good number
of the incidents with which Johnson indicts his subjects aren't relevant
to the core of their intellectual output, in the same way that Albert
Goldman's biographies of Elvis and Lennon contribute little, if anything,
to a serious discussion of their cultural contributions.

To pick an example that Johnson ignores (at least I think so, it's been
a while since I read the book): Norman Mailer stabbed one of his wives,
treated a lot of people like shit, and sponsored the release of a guy
whose later actions proved that he should not have been let out of prison.

(the guy's last name was Abbott, I forget the full name.  Mailer read some
of his writing, and urged for his parole.  Less than a month after that
parole was obtained, Abbott killed another guy)

Does any of this have anything to do with Mailer's talent as a writer?

Ron
of course, it can lead to an interesting
interpretation of "The White Negro".

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:31:42 GMT

                                  Thursday, the 7th of January, 1993

Rod Williams writes at me:
  You'll forgive, I hope, my irritation with your drawing
  your principled line at adding sexual orientation to the
  long-established anti-discrimination laws that protect
  citizens from unfair treatment on account of their sex,
  race, religion, disability, marital status, national
  origin or veteran status (what have I left out?).  Unfair
  treatment, both morally wrong and stupid, that
  nevertheless happens every day.  Or perhaps you're
  actively working to repeal those laws too?

Well, I thought I was working as actively for the repeal of
those laws as for refusing to add sexual orientation to the
protected list. You see, if ``equal treatment before the law'' means
government shall treat people equally (i.e. 1 individual =
another individual) then it would seem to me one oughtn't be
able to single out inclusion in any minority group for any special
treatment by any law that one makes. Note this is *very, very*
different from a principle of equal treatment which would say
that government has a positive mandate to force equality 
on society by legislating it. The first meaning refers I
think to a natural right, the second does not.

I will plead guilty to agreeing with Mikhail's argument up to the point
that religion, marital status, veteran status, and sexual orientation
are fundamentally different categories from sex, race, disability, and
national origin.

I think that nevertheless I would favor a CO2-type measure excluding
any one of these categories from legal special treatment. That
would mean, of course, that I don't approve of affirmative
action legislation, but this would also mean that I would not
be willing legally to punish a business which refused to hire
blacks, say. Personally, I would boycott the products of such a
company, and I would suspect such a company would not long remain
in business. In any event, you can understand why I would not be happy
to add yet another protected minority group to the list, when I
disagree with the principle of having such a list in the first place.

                         Mike Morris
                (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Cross-Writing (was: Books I Got For Xmas)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 JAN 93 14:31:50 GMT

I wrote:

>>>Maybe.  I'm not so sure.  I think people are more demanding of a
>>>female writer writing from a male point of view.
>>
>>One idea would be to look at the "canon" and see how many female
>>authors' books have male points of view, and how many male authors'
>>books have female points of view.  That would give you a fair idea
>>of how well-accepted "cross-writing" is for men as opposed to
>>women.

Mike Godwin wrote:

>Perhaps so, but while these data would be interesting, it seems to me they
>wouldn't directly address the issue we've raised in this thread:
>namely, whether "people are more demanding of a female writer writing
>from a male point of view."

No, they wouldn't address that question as it's phrased; but that question
only came up as a passing comment in the discussion of what I consider to
be the *real* issue of this thread, that is, the place of women writers in
the larger world of (male) writers.  The Oates essay deals with women
writers' place in literature, which is why I mentioned the "canon".

>The statistics on use of the opposite gender's point of view wouldn't
>really tell us how well the writers' efforts were received.

But it would give a good indication of how well-accepted cross-writing
is in academic circles, and hence its seriousness.

I think I may have confused the issue by mentioning Anne Rice, who's
considered an author of "popular fiction" rather than literature.  I've
tried to think of a male author of comparable best-seller material
who writes from a female point of view, and the only one I can come
up with at the moment is Thomas Harris.  In _The Silence of the Lambs_
he did a very nice job of writing from the perspective of a female
protagonist.  All I can remember from the reviews I read and the comments
that I heard at the time was, "What a pleasant change to have a female
action hero". I don't recall anyone specifically pointing out, "How
interesting it is that Harris, being a man, can write believably from
a female perspective."  On the other hand, the Anne Rice comments I've
heard have been along the lines of, "She's a woman, but she can write from
a male point of view, isn't that great!"

Note that when I say "female point of view", I'm including third-person
narrative from the perspective of a female character, and not limiting
it to first-person.

Also note that I'm not addressing the issue of character development,
as in "Hemingway couldn't write female characters to save his life", or
"Jane Austen's male characters are flat".


Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Homophobia
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:13:46 GMT

In article <C0o2Ap.4vz@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:
>Mike Godwin asked:
>    Should they be allowed to fire an employee if they discover he's Jewish?
>    What if they feel that Jews undermine their "flaming fundie image"?

>I said:
>  I think I've already said that they should be ``allowed'' to 
>  do this, yes.

>Mike responds:
>  In that case, I find it easy to imagine a reinstantiation of the 
>  Nuremburg race laws.

>Ahh, Godwin's Rule? There is a politics where the existence of a Right
>is purely a limitation on the power of *government* to violate it,
>not a warrant for government to force what the majority thinks is
>that Right's equal exercise on individuals.

We're not talking about individuals, though.  Corporations are not 
individuals -- and large ones are quite capable of acting a lot like
governments.  In the case of a sufficiently weak government, it's
likely that the corporation will *become* a government.  

>Personally, I think the claim of this warrant for some out
>of the whole package of non-discrimination and civil rights
>laws, has guaranteed an extra twenty years of racial tension
>in the States.

Like, it was on the wane in 1964 already or something?  Hoo boy.

Roger
>
>
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: CP or not PC (is that a question?)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 11:55:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  I think that Camille Paglia's greatest strength is her 
opposition to the so-called "risk free" society. Earlier I
mentioned a deconstruction of the Western by an English professor
at Duke. The Western, to her, was a reaction to the "humanism"
inherent in the social agenda of the latter half of the 19th
century. Perhaps now is the time for another such spin-off of
genre with all of the overly-protective social "agendeers" who
harp on total protection from any concievable mode of harm.
  I guess since I grew up with the draft over my head I feel that
the lack of institutionalized "threat" has given the younguns
carte blanche to develop their own institutionalized threats to
themselves and society.
  Just an observation.....
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books