HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Organization: Computer Engineering & Science/CWRU
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 23:17:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.201417.16117@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:

>> In addition, the article has a couple of cheap shots against
>>Sunni-Shiite relations and Islam in general. 
>
>Could you mention the cheap shots? Are the claims made by the article 
>inaccurate? Could you correct them for us? I would really like to learn 
>more on the subject.

Cheap shot #1: Shiites are right, Sunnis wrong.

The article says:

The traditional split between the two main sects of Islam also embraces
'pleasure marriages.' Sunnis claim that Mohammed annulled the practice because
the great Islamic wars were over and soldiers were no longer away from their
wives. The Shias claim that Mohammed condoned 'pleasure marriages' and that it
was the second caliph, Omar, who overturned the Koran-approved practice, and
that a caliph cannot overrule a prophet.

Both sides are implacable, with Sayyed Fadlallah stating tersely:
"We are right; they are wrong."

Question: did Fadlalah REALLY say that? hmm, he must have changed his
ideas lately.

Cheap shot #2: It is a animalistic practice.

Christian attitudes toward 'pleasure marriages' in this religiously polarized
country are hostile. One bank employee called those who Practice temporary
marriages "animals".

>>No wonder Lebanon is so messed up after all.
>
>Because of newspaper articles describing the customs of some Middle Eastern
>religious groups?
	
No, because of some people like you Michel who cannot understand their
fellow compatriotes and don't hesitate on using anything even
misguiding to hurt them.  I think you know what I mean.

>Michel


-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: post
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:52:51 GMT
Organization: UiO

In article <1187.29e9b16b@mbcl.rutgers.edu> fadel@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:
>La France et les Libanais.
>Je m'addresse a ceux qui pretendent etre francais et oublient leurs origines.
>Les Francais s'en foutent completement de nous, comme tous les autres
>occidentaux par ailleurs. On est Libanais avant tout!!! On a detruit le Liban
>car on ne l'a pas respecte.Oublions l'Iran, la Syrie, la France,les
Etats-Unis,
>et pensons d'abord au Liban.Il va falloir rebatir en ignorant les differents
>religieux et les influences etrangeres et peut etre qu'un jour, le Liban nous
>pardonnera de l'avoir bafoue.  
>


je suis completement d'accord avec toi!


elie wardini
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Racism on scl (was Re: The racist Mr. Mourad)
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:20:52 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <AYMAN.92Apr13144722@sol.berkeley.edu>,
ayman@sol.berkeley.edu (Ayman Fawaz) writes:

> The issue is not which group has a right to feel proud of its heritage
> and which has none, nor should it be.  Nor is it whether Elie
> considers himself an Arab or not.  I am not in the least interested in
> discussing people's identity crisis.  I could not care less whether
> him, you or anyone else consider yourselves Arabs or not, you are
> absolutely free to choose whichever identity you please.  
> 
> The issue is simply that when and if people write racist slurs about
> any ethnic or religious group, they should, and hopefully will, be
> roundly trounced, and deservedly so.  

I repeat to those who deliberately choose to insult others on the net
that their racism will not be tolerated, by Youssef, myself, or most
of the s.c.l. readership (we should hope). And, I will be gald to be
labeled as part of the "politically correct" crowd when I question 
their racist slurs.  I guess it beats being compared to JMLP.
For clear examples of who I am addressing myself to, please refer 
to my article titled  _A sampling of "cultural" bashing on scl_ 
+ Mr. Markarian whom after much "thought" decided to go ahead and 
share with us his unsavory "joke" about Arab brains, all the while
claiming he is doing so to provoke in Arabs some sort of self-criticism.
Racism is racism is racism, and it is ugly.

To Youssef:

Thanks for your eloquent words and the Brassens quote, it was great.
I don't have any of his tapes currently since Salah took all the Brassens 
tapes with him when we "separated" ;)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: I NEED HELP ON LEBANON RECENT HISTORY
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:40:26 GMT

Question 1,
The Palestinians have about 10 refugee camps throughout Lebanon,
the following three are quite far from the South :

1- Al Baddawi		( Next to Tripoli)
2- Nahr Albared 	( 10 miles north of Tripoli)
3- Baalbak camp		( Next to Baalbak)

In 1982, did Israel reach to those camps and throw out the PLO out of them.
Actually, did Israel reach anywhere near Tripoli or Baalbak?

I urge you all to answer, I need as many answers as possible, an Israeli
lover is claiming to know the history of Lebanon more than its people,
and he's calling many of us ignorants over and over.

Question 2,
Did Pier Algemayyel vow revenge on TV accusing Israel of killing Bashir?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above represents my opinion, and is irrelevant to that of my employer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: philo@athena.mit.edu (philo)
Subject: Lebanese nationailsm and the rebuilding of lebanon.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:34:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.131428.14349@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

[my previous reply deleted]

|> Yes, you are right. Be what you want to be. But remember and I am honestly speaking, that
|> this may create problem in rebuilding and unifying Lebanon. Feel free to correct me if I am 
|> wrong.
|> 
|> Nabil

Well, there are certainly many cultural influences in Lebanon. the Arab culture
being one of the most dominant, it is only one of several. I do not think that is
unkown to anyone on scl. 

When we want to rebuild Lebanon, we have to agree on common ground. Some people
would argue that we should agree that we are all Arabs, and that is fine, until
you try to define what "Arab" means. Someone posted the idea that an Arab is the
citizen of an Arab country. this is a political grouping of people, different
from a social/cultural identification. One gets into interesting arguments when  
you think that egyptians were arabs, then they were not, and now they are
again... 

But all this is besides the point. The point is that we are (supposidly) trying
to rebuild Lebanon. To me, it sounds easier, in that context,to agree that we are
all lebaese, and to go on from there, than to try to prove/disprove our arabism.
I think it is people who try to impose on me an identity that is not mine who
are the problem, and not the people who allow you room to breath.

sincerely,
philo.
-- 
.....................
dakhlak.... hawn nazl s suruur?
				(Ziad)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: dina@cs.mcgill.ca (Dina KAYYAL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: A better joke : )))
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:29:08 GMT
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.075027.4868@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani) writes:
>
>    Two Jews are sitting in the window and middle seats on a plane.
>The Jews ask the Arab sitting in the aisle seat to get them a glass of
>orange juice so they won't have to crawl over him.  While he is up getting
>the drinks, they spit in his shoes.  When they are about to land the
>Arab guy puts on his shoes and realizes what has happened.  He complains
>to the Jews, "When will it all end?  The hatred... the violence... the
>killing... the spitting in shoes... the peeing in orange juice..."
>
>-- 
>H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
>Dept. of Computer Engineering
>Crawford Hall 215C
>Case Western Reserve U

Orange juice???
thought it was Apple juice!!! :))

Dina..
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: abed@venus.wustl.edu (Abed M. Hammoud)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Organization: Washington University, ESSRL
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:22:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.201417.16117@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:

Ok Mr. karam....could you stop posting these kind of non-informative
articles onto the newsgroup....If you cannot find something to say my be
you should say nothing.....

It is very obvious that you didn't think much before posting this
article....

If not many people replied to your article it doesn't mean that
they liked it....for the case of this article I and many were disgusted..

I hope this makes your day....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: gmarkari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Georges Z Markarian)
Subject: just a joke!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:06:00 GMT


To all those who posted articles attacking my last posting and to allthose who 
sent me personal e-mail (of the attacking kind).
     First of all I clearly stated that this was not my opinion
     Secondly, by giving the comment at the end I was hoping to somehow
     stimulate the thought that it's about time that we wake up and smell the
     coffee and do something to erase this negative image regardless of 
     whether it's correct or not.
     Last but not least it is obvious that those folks who wrote back calling
     me a racist are too immature to take a joke (who knows may be if they
     did not think that this stupid joke had some truth to it they might not
     have been so offended).

Best regards
Georges Markarian
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Archeology
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:50:50 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


|         "After15 years of war, Lebanon has fallen victim to the greatest
| pillage of Greco-Roman, Bronze Age, and Iron Age treasures in the Middle
| East since European explorers sacked the area more than a centuary ago...
| Byzantine and Phoenician treasures - some of them4,000 years old - are
| being illeally exported with the help from Lebanese militias...One
| recently dug-up cemetery in Tyre looked like a series of massive bomb-
| craters gouged into the Earth...One robber's explanation for the pillage
| (was) "I and my family needed to eat, so I didn't care much for the
| history of my country or the heritage of my ancestors." "
|                         (World Press Review, Dec. 1991, P.37)


PS: Sorry its another outstanding article
From: ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: U.S. Aid to Israel????
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:09:48 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Electronic Eng., The University of Adelaide


In my previous posting, the first few lines should refer to
an article written in response to Dr. Jasem Alhumoud's
article (Pittsburgh Uni.), about the account of Eleni Katsoulakis
on her visit to the Holly Land. (did not record the sender's name :-)).


Apologise if i confused the readers as to whom my article is addressed to
(just another arab incompetence! :-))
-- 
George Hassoun
University of Adelaide, EEE Dpt.
Adelaide, South Australia
email: ghassoun@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au      Phone:(08) 228 5468
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: sylvie@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Sylvie Feghali Ext. 6525)
Subject: Re: Arab identity
Originator: sylvie@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 14:15:57 GMT


    Ya Hani,
        You missed the point I was trying to make.  I never
    implied that people can escape their ethnic background by stretching
    reality based on fashion trends.  
    All I wanted to say was that the arguments set forth by various SCL members
    on this subject, were all VALID based on how you define the semantics
    of the term ARAB.  
    I did not even express my personal opinion on the subject.  I do
    think it is always appropriate to do some reading on this topic and other
    topics too, but I did grow up in Lebanon and studied history there so I have
    a pretty good idea and my own opinion about our origins and what I consider
    myself to be (Which I never specified!). 
    If any of you knew Mr Antoine Khouri Harb, he was my history/archeology teacher.
    He was a fascinating individual, very patriotic.  He published a book called
    "The name of Lebanon through the ages" ( Ism lebnan A'abr el A'assour) which
    is quite interesting. This particular topic was his favorite.  I wish
    he could be part of this discussion.
    Anyway, back to the point here's the message I was wanted to give: 

          Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion,
          that does not make it right for you to start bashing
          them.

   And of course this was not aimed at you, but rather to all these people
   who started a verbal war because they disagreed with each other's ethnic
   perspectives.  
   Just as Elie Wardini said, the only answer is pluralism and tolerance.
    
                                    Sylvie


-- 
Sylvie Feghali                  |  GO AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE; 
NCR,  E&M Columbia              |  WHEN YOU GET THERE, 
Quality & Strategic Initiatives |  YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE FURTHER
Email address: sylvie.feghali@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:18:07 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Apr4.223320.7776@ctr.columbia.edu>,
sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:

> And regarding the issue of Aoun serving Irak in contradiction with the
> interests of Lebanon, the statement remains to be proven. To me it is not
> clear that Aoun's actions were dictated by Irak or that they were against
> Lebanon's interest. Surely you are not saying that the liberation of Lebanon
> and getting rid of the militias is against the Lebanese interest.

The proof is always in the pudding.
The alliance of Aoun with Iraq, did have many negative influences on Lebanon,
since most of the actual outcomes from the alliance were more war and
destruction, no getting rid of the militias and more divisions within
the country.
When I point to the effects that this alliance had on Lebanon, I am always
countered with the argument that we should not blame Aoun since he lost.  
I blame him because he used Lebanon and the Lebanese as proving grounds for 
his gamble, because his rhetoric was not matched by his actions, and because 
in the end his gamble and lofty ideals were no more than demagoguery set up
to achieve his self-serving interests and  his obsesssion with power.
He could care less for Lebanon and the many Lebanese civilians that he is 
personally accountable for their death.

> Boudi

Basil
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Disappearing act!
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:55:38 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


From Clao's via Leb-Net:
------------------------


The investigation into the disappearance of Habib Farres Ibrahim, who landed 
at the Beirut International Airport on February 26, 1991, coming from Brazil,
has not led to any result yet. This incident proves once again that Syria and
its puppet Harawi regime are not sure guarantees for safety.
Only a legitimate Lebanese government can safeguard the security at the airport
and in the country.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Speak Arabic! (was Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)))
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 15:59:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.003716.16544@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1992Apr09.152842.17564@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>
>>You people who claim that you are not Arabs make me puke. If you are not
>>Arabs then don't speak Arabic. Speak French!!!
>>
>>Nabil Idriss
>
>Funny, if I were to add up the languages my immediate family speaks it
>would encompass:
>Arabic, French, English, Armenian, Syriac, Kurdish, Turkish, Greek and 
>Swedish.
>
>So what's your point ?
>
>Elie.

I am talking about native language spoken by all Lebanese. My apology 
for using the term "PUKE"

Nabil
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:13:15 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Apr13.143345.27835@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:

> Could you point out any erroneous information in the article?

I have already said what's wrong with the article, let's not concentrate
on the minute accuracies in detail and loose track of the bigger picture.
One can use small truths to make up a big lie.  I recommend you check
out the book _How to Lie in Statistics_ to learn more about the art
of deception, though you might not need additional coaching in that respect.

 Furthermore
> the article cannot be considered as Arab or Muslim bashing because the 
> practice occurs in Iran which is not Arab, and is only allowed in Shiism
> which is a minority sect among Muslims.

Since Shia's are a minority among Muslims and Arabs than it's only Shiite
bashing.  Great! I feel better about it now that you pointed that out 
to me.  I believe that the article was directed at more than the Shiites 
but regardless, attacking any sect for no reason on s.c.l. is not welcome.
 
> I am sorry if the article offended you but maybe the reason why you
and others
> reacted so violently is that truth hurts?

You claim that you posted the article in order to learn more about the issue
of Pleasure Marriage -a major issue facing Lebanon ;)- and be more
"culturally" 
attuned with your fellow Lebanese Shiites.
I, and several others (notably the great comments posted by Mazen Al-Sagheer)
came out and pointed out what information we had that contradict the article
and question its intent.  Accordingly, your article did exactly what you claim
that you wanted it to do, that is, to stimulate discussion on the matter.  
I don't recall any violence in our reaction or any truth in that article.

> Michel.

Basil
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent))
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:14:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrcae.1992Apr13.131428.14349
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

>|> Arabs then don't speak Arabic. Speak French!!!
>|> 
>|> Nabil Idriss
>|> 
>I don't speak arabic. 
>
>I speak Arabic, French, English, and Lebanese.
>is there something bad with that?
>
>If I am lebanese , yet I seem to fit more among European cultures, is that bad?
>Can I at least be allowed to chose who to identify with? I don't understand why I
>wouldn't be allowed, and yet, you want to take this right away from me.
>
>
>WHY?
>
>
>-philo.
>-- 
Yes, you are right. Be what you want to be. But remember and I am honestly speaking, that
this may create problem in rebuilding and unifying Lebanon. Feel free to correct me if I am 
wrong.

Nabil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: English-Arabic Dictionary?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:18:08 GMT


I have been looking for a good English-Arabic Dictionary for quite
some time now without any luck.  I used to have one by Mr. Munir Al-
Baalabakki which I thought was the best but I lost it.  Does anyone
out there have any pertinent information?  Thanks,

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: fadel@mbcl.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: post
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:06:03 GMT

La France et les Libanais.
Je m'addresse a ceux qui pretendent etre francais et oublient leurs origines.
Les Francais s'en foutent completement de nous, comme tous les autres
occidentaux par ailleurs. On est Libanais avant tout!!! On a detruit le Liban
car on ne l'a pas respecte.Oublions l'Iran, la Syrie, la France,les Etats-Unis,
et pensons d'abord au Liban.Il va falloir rebatir en ignorant les differents
religieux et les influences etrangeres et peut etre qu'un jour, le Liban nous
pardonnera de l'avoir bafoue.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Subject: Re: Arab identity 
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 01:14:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr09.191536.29608@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> sylvie@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Sylvie Feghali Ext. 6525) writes:

>    I think you guys  need to establish a frame of reference to insure we
>    are all talking about the same thing when we refer to a certain term.
>    Specifically the term "Arab"
>
>       What is the definition of "an Arab" in the context of your discussions?
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    In other words, am I an arab because :

>Sylvie Feghali                  | GO AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE; 

It looks like we're starting another round of Arabic identity discussion, 
which periodically crops up on scl and Leb-Net.  Anyone who's interested
in the discussion, I suggest they read a front page article in the New Jersey
paper "The Sunday Star-Ledger" April 12, 1992.  The article's conclusion and
subtitle is that "Ethnic distinctions [are] hard to define in [a] multicultural
era".

I regret I don't have time to quote it in its entirety so I'll quote some:

"While the Census Bureau is considering the plea of groups like MISC
[Multicultural Interracial Student Colition] to add a biracial or multiracial
category on the next Census, until now people of mixed ancestry have had to
choose which part of themeslves to claim.  And over time that can change."

The article also tells the story of a "white" woman who only recently
discovered she was classified as colored:

"Susie Guillory Phipps claimed it wasn't until she saw her birth certificate in
1977 that she learned that the Lousiana Bureau of Vital Statistics had her
down as `colored.'

"Phipps said she had been raised white, schooled white, lived white, looked
white and twice married white.  She went to court to have her race legally
changed.

"But it turned out that Phipps great-great-great-great-grandmother had been a
black slave whose owner had freed her in 1762 after she bore him four children.
By the time the state of Louisiana was finished with its racial arithmetic,
Phipps was counted three-32nds black, well over the one-32nd standard by which
someone could legally be considered black.

"For nearly a decade Phipps fought to have her race changed.  But lost in the
Lousiana courts and, in 1986, the Supreme Court refused to review her case."

The article also notes, quoting the sociologist F. James Davis, the author
of "Who Is Black":

"Davis notes that Alex Haley only traced his black `Roots', neglecting to trace
his white ancestry back to the British Isles"

To all who are proud of their Arab (non-Arab) roots, have you considered what
other non-Arab (Arab) roots you descend from?

bassem medawar
medawar@tasha.poly.edu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon