HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "mjordan.UK" <mjordan@uk.oracle.com>
Subject: apple discovery (9.01)
Original-To: pyr2:cisco@spot.colorado.edu
Original-Cc: nocstaff
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:18:45 GMT
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211121818.AA17192@ukpyr2.uk.oracle.com.uk.oracle.com>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews



	Hi,
	I have a problem on a network feed by an igs,9.01 .
	Appletalk is configured as
	[appletalk cable-range 0-0
	appletalk discovery]
	Twice I have experienced a loss of routung to this network,
	upon querying the igs, its knows of all other zones except
	those on its' ethernet port. 
	A query to its' ethernet interface tell me that its' in discovery mode
	yet in the configuration it has replaced [cable-range 0-0] with 
	20300-20310.29, which I assume is normal .
	The only way I have found to remedy this problem is to re-type
	in the configuration for appletalk,
	.[appletalk cable-range 0-0
	  appletalk discovery]

	We have only a Kinetics FastPath 4 set up as a seed router,
	it has on Ethernet side
		network range: 		20300-20310 
		zones: 			NLMACNET, NLApple1, NLApple2.
	On appletalk side this is:
		Network number:  	20301
		Zone:			NLApple1
	It is set up for Appletalk Phase 2 only. 
	We have on our network 3 other type of routers:
		Apple internet router 2.0 running on a MAC
		Appletalk for VMS (Pathworks for Mac on DEC VAX version 1.1)
		Netware for Macintosh from novell version 3.0 
	
	Any help welcome



Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:56:28 GMT
From: "mjordan.UK" <mjordan@uk.oracle.com>
	
 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco,connect.audit
From: bobkil@ibmpcug.co.uk (Bob Kilgore)
Subject: MORE ON COUNTERS !!
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the author
	alone and may not represent the views of the IBM PC User Group.
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:00:17 GMT

More counter questions;

I am playing at network management, the negotiations for a system
seem to be taking forever.  I am taking statistics from the counters
to determine the average packet size on a network, among other things.
Simple, divide the number of bytes by the number of packets.
Problem is the counters don't reset and don't roll over at the same
time.  No problem just add the maximum value of a counter to the
figure and all will be well.  I did that and was close but didn't
look accurate.  Then re-examined the counters and found one that had
gone past 2 to the 32nd.

This then brings up the question, what is the maximum value a counter
can reach?  Are all counters the same?  Am I going crazy?  I have just
re-read the 8.2, 8.3, and 9.0 documentation, for the third time,
and I cant find any reference to the max. value.

Any help will be appreciated.  And, thanks to everyone that responded
to my previous question about the env. card and power fluctuations.  
This seems to be a somewhat hazy area, I hope it will get better
over time.

Best Regards from Belgium;
BOB
bobkil@ibmpcug.ac.uk

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: trstan%trew@dot.ca.gov ( )
Subject: syslogd logging on AGS problem
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:42:52 PST
Return-Path: <trstan@trew ( )>
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211051647.AA01264@dot.ca.gov>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews


I have an AGS+ running 8.3(5) and have entered the following commands
on the router to hopefully log events to a Sun running a syslogd server:

hostname TRRT1
logging trap debugging
logging 149.136.52.253
!

On my Sniffer I don't see any log packets on the local ethernet.
Is anyone successful doing this? If so, what do you have in 
your syslog.conf file to capture this? 

Note: I can use BSD4.3 logging commands on the Apollo with the Apollo
      syslog.conf pointing to the Sun.


My topology is:
  
  _________149.136.52.0 mask 255.255.255.0_____________________________________
     |                                     |                  |
     |                                     |                  |
     | 52.253                      52.7    |             52.2 |
  --------                       -------------          ------------
  | Sun  |                       | cisco     |          | Apollo   |
  --------                       -------------          ------------

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: Bob Albrightson <albright@lager.cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco timekeeping
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:19:52 PST
X-Note1: mail msgid was <CMM.0.90.2.721441192.albright@lager.cisco.com>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews

> How do folks keep the date on a cisco router in sync with other clocks
> on the network.  We run NTP on some of our servers and synchronize
> other hosts to them in a variety of ways.  I have looked through the
> documentation that I have and see no way to automatically correct
> the time on a router.

Actually it is really easy.  There is no real time clock on the router
at all.  Therefore, no sync problem.

 -bob
From: bruce@camb.com (Barton F. Bruce)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: LAT multicast traffic: what is excessive?
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:18:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: camb.1992Nov4.221844.40040
Organization: Cambridge Computer Associates, Inc.

In article <720345136.801@news.Colorado.EDU>, William "Chops" Westfield <billw@regal.cisco.com> writes:
> being 60 bytes each.  On your network with 50 nodes, you have about
> 60*50*8 = 24000 bps of lat service advertisments floating around

Of course if cisco would watch what folks like Gandalf are doing this
would be less of a problem. They have LAT specific compression that
crunches 22 bytes of LAT header into 12 bits, and then heavily
compresses everything else. 

Sure it is a bridge only (for now) and has only 2 56kb WAN ports with
one Ethernet port, but is so inexpensive and so desirable with that
compression that it may be better for a hub site cisco box to NOT use a
wan port to some remote site IGS, but to come out a cisco ethernet port
that only goes to a Gandalf compressing bridge that goes 56kb to a
remote Gandalf. Much better performance, and less $s. 

The Gandalfs are commodity priced and marketed through major mational PC
distributors and have a street price that makes this a very attractive
configuration with a pair of them cost way less than a remote cisco IGS.
Flash for upgrades, too! 

Now if cisco would deign to add comprtession even if only for low link
speeds...
From: tli@skat.usc.edu (Tony Li)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: priority queing
Date: 10 Nov 1992 18:46:15 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <721447973.935@news.Colorado.EDU> mhump@sparky.msfc.nasa.gov (Mark Humphries) writes:
    
    I understand that guaranteed bandwidth is not the inteneded purpose of 
    priority queuing but rather guaranteed throughput or priority throughput.
    I know you can't configure the router (with priority queuing or any other
    commands) to guarantee 20% of BW to #1 nets or 80% of BW for certain 
    protocols.  However, my theory was that if two groups of nets are assigned
    the same priority, the router should equally balance it's queue dropping
    between them. This would effectively give the two groups of networks equal
    time or resources (or each 50% of BW, or 33.333% of BW for 3 groups).
    
Sorry.  Within a single queue, it's first come, first served.

Tony
-- 
Tony Li - Escapee from the USC Computer Science Department          tli@usc.edu
		       The net is not what it seems.
Date: Monday, 9 Nov 1992 18:51:03 +01
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: automatic EXEC command at boot time
From: Andre' Pirard <pirard@vm1.ulg.ac.be>
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXMessage-ID: <A72462D08901180A@ampa.segi.ulg.ac.be>
X-XXDate: Mon, 9 Nov 92 17:47:44 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Universite' de Lie`ge (Belgium)

I have once suggested that a Cisco configuration could contain the text
of EXEC commands to be executed right after the boot sequence.
This has multiple uses, like early debugging or augmenting the log with
traces like IP routes changes.
I've been diffing my new manuals to no avail.
Has anyone noticed such a feature?

-----
Andre Pirard          SEGI, Univ. de Li`ge         139.165 IP coordinator
B26 - Sart Tilman     B-4000 Li`ge 1 (Belgium)            +32 (41) 564932
pirard@vm1.ulg.ac.be  alias PIRARD@BLIULG11.BITNET
From: jesusg@si.upc.es
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Asincronous in   Serial?
Date: 7 Nov 92 10:47:41 GMT
Organization: UPC, Universitat Politcnica de Catalunya
Nntp-Posting-User: jesusg

Hola NetWorkers:
	Do anyone of you know about how to get an Asincronous serial
	interface in a cisco router ?.
	
        In order to use modem's MNP compresion.
        
	Any Black(cheap)box, we have allready tested some
	data compresors but still too spensive.

	Thanks jesus.
Bye.

	 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco,connect.audit
From: bobkil@ibmpcug.co.uk (Bob Kilgore)
Subject: FDDI ERROR COUNT, RELY VALUE!!
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the author
	alone and may not represent the views of the IBM PC User Group.
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:59:14 GMT

Two questions;

One; In an FDDI ring, when one device transmits an error packet,
ie; a frame error, the downstream neighbour will count it as an
error.  As the frame is still circulating, will the next
downstream device count the same frame as an error, or will it
ignore it ??

Two; In all Cisco statistics there is a value called "rely" which
always displays X/255.  I am told this is a reliability figure.
What, exactly, is the meaning of the number X?  My guess is that
the reliability is X 255ths.  OK, when should I start to worry if
this number begins to decrease, and where should I look for
problems?  This is a "generic" type question, however I have a
FDDI interface that shows 245/255 for "rely".

I haven't included the configuration values or hardware as these
questions are general in nature.  Send me mail if you want them.

Best regards from "leafy" Belgium;
BOB
bobkil@ibmpcug.ac.uk

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: tengi@Princeton.EDU
Subject: Problems with vines on 8.3(5)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:34:48 -0500
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211122134.AA21511@deepthought.princeton.edu>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews
X-Mts: smtp

Greetings,
    We are trying to get a Vines server to stay up after we enable vines routing
on the interface for the subnet to which the server is connected.  The symptoms
are that the server logs an error about "SS LAN option not available," and then
says that it will shutdown services in 10 minutes.  If we remove and reconnect
the ethernet cable on the server, it will then come back up, and repeat the
cycle.  This, obviously, does not allow much useful work to get done.  It does
not matter if I enable vines on just this interface, or on both interfaces in
the router.  Here is the associated configuration information:

	Vines Server Version:	v5, patchlevel 5

	cisco SW version:	GS2-BR 8.3(3)
	cisco config commands:

		!
		!
		vines routing 30005EF2:1
		!
		!

		!
		! subnet with only clients
		!
		interface Ethernet 0

		vines metric 2
		vines arp-enable
		vines serverless
		!
		! subnet with server and clients
		!
		interface Ethernet 1

		vines metric 2
		!


Note that we are also running TCP/IP, Novell, AppleTalk, and DECnet on both
interfaces.  Does any of this look incorrect?  Do we need the component that the
server is complaining about in order for things to work?  Am I totally clueless
on this?  :-)

					Thanks,
						/Chris
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: Access Lists and FTP
Date: 10 Nov 1992 19:51:01 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <32416@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU> kwieman@.stern.nyu.edu (Karl Wieman) writes:
>I am attempting to restrict the use of ftp.  I would like for hosts on subnet
>A to be able to ftp to other subnets, but not for anybody to ftp "in" to
>subnet A.  I have managed to restrict ftp access to subnet A, and users on this
>subnet are able to connect to other hosts with ftp.  However, when they try
>to 'get' a file it fails to make the necessary connection.

You have to allow incoming connections to high-numbered ports for this.
When you do a file transfer with FTP, the FTP client becomes the server for
a data connection.  It starts serving on an essentially random port, sends
the port number to the FTP server, and then the FTP server connects to the
client.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: kevin@centerline.com (Kevin McMahon)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: XRemote on Comserver
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:37:05 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: motown.centerline.com


We are considering purchasing a Cisco Comserver.  The purpose would be to
have users with NCD X terminals at home dial in with V.32bis modems and
connect with XRemote.  They would be using our applications, with menus and
popups and X stuff like that.  How have you find the performance from this
kind of setup to be?  Would my users find the setup fast enough to get work
done?

--
                    Kevin McMahon | kevin@centerline.COM
              CenterLine Software | (was Saber Software Inc.)
                   10 Fawcett St. | (617) 498-3259
              Cambridge, MA 02138 | (617) 868-6655 (FAX)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: David Hampton <hampton@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with vines on 8.3(5) 
             <9211122134.AA21511@deepthought.princeton.edu> 
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:55:42 PST
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211122155.AA05602@wolf.cisco.com>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews

To a vines server, the cisco router appears as another vines server.
Because of this, you must purchase the "Server to Server LAN" option
for your servers.

>     We are trying to get a Vines server to stay up after we enable vines routing
> on the interface for the subnet to which the server is connected.  The symptoms
> are that the server logs an error about "SS LAN option not available," and then
> says that it will shutdown services in 10 minutes.  If we remove and reconnect
> the ethernet cable on the server, it will then come back up, and repeat the
> cycle.  This, obviously, does not allow much useful work to get done.  It does
> not matter if I enable vines on just this interface, or on both interfaces in
> the router.  Here is the associated configuration information:

David
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: fengstad@xi.uleth.ca (Grant Fengstad)
Subject: IGRP and RIP / redistributing tables
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:09:50 GMT


We have recently expanded our Network to integrate and tie into
our parent company, Canadian Airlines lnterNational - PWA Corp.  Our
Cisco router configuration initially was quite simple as we were using
RIP for our routing table updates.  

One of the objectives of integrating into Canadian's Network was to
consolidate services and have access to their National backbone.  As of
today, the routers are configured to use IGRP for the routing table
updates. 

It would appear that we've run into a small snag.  At two sites, we have
IGS/R's installed, Revision 8.2(7) and 9.0(2).  
These routers are connected to an AGS+4, Revision 9.0(1.11) via 56K
digitial link.  Previously, the IGS/R's were directly connected to each
other and used RIP.  At each site, we have several devices that I was
able to ping to from either router.

Now that the changes have occured, the IGS/R's are communicating to the
AGS+/4 via IGRP.  The IGS/R's have been configured to "redistribute
rip".  The problem is that I am able to establish telnet sessions
locally from the router to other systems, but attempting to contact
devices at the remote location fails.  Even simple pinging fails, when
the poll is directed at a device at the remote site.  Issuing a "show ip
route" command shows that the remote site is recognized as a "I - IGRP
derived connection"

The Network looks like this:

					        157.162.120.0
				Cisco IGS/R +-----------------
			IGRP with RIP	    | IGRP and RIP enabled
			dist.		    |
					    |
			Cisco AGS+/4 +------|
			142.147.2.0	    |
			IGRP enabled	    |
					    |
				Cisco IGS/R +-----------------
			IGRP with RIP		157.162.100.0
			dist.		      IGRP and RIP enabled

For example, if I am on Network 157.162.100.0, I can ping any device on
this segment.  I can also ping 142.147.2.1 (AGS) and 157.162.120.1
(IGS/R) on remote segment.  Pinging any other devices on Network
157.162.120.0 fails.  It also produces the same results in the reverse
direction.

I appreciate any pointers or assistance anyone can offer.  Please email
replies.  I will summarize.

--
#====================================================================#
# Grant M. Fengstad		     E Mail:    fengstad@xi.Uleth.CA #
# Manager, Network Operations	     Voice:     (403) 382-6724       #
# Canadian Regional Airlines Ltd.    FAX:	(403) 327-1229       #
#====================================================================#
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: trstan%trew@dot.ca.gov ( )
Subject: guellec@frill.bitnet reply
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:12:44 PST
Return-Path: <trstan@trew ( )>
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211121817.AA00761@dot.ca.gov>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews




If you are routing appletalk you need to have 8.3 software.
There was a problem with 8.2 that when my Gatorboxes went off and on
such that the cisco needed to be reloaded to be able to see the
Gators. I suspect that that would be the case with FastPaths.




Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: sgvax.dnet%sgvax%"a1::limmg".dnet@mrgate.dnet
Subject: cisco lat filtering
Date: 4 Nov 92 04:39:38 -0500
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211040939.AA29286@esds01.es.dupont.com>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews

From:	NAME: MARGARET LIM                  
	FUNC: REGIONAL TECHNICAL SUPPORT      
	TEL: 770-7157                         <LIMMG AT A1 AT SGVAX>
To:	"BOONMARK@CISCO.COM"@ESDS01@MRGATE,
	"TAC@CISCO.COM"@ESDS01@MRGATE
CC:	"CISCO@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU"@ESDS01@MRGATE


Hi Boonmark,
How are you? Wondering if you can me with this, can the cisco rel 
ver 8.3.5 support lat bridge filtering by specific services. I 
understand that we can do it today if we implement group codes 
but all our networks implement 0 group codes . Hence to change 
the group code of some of the vaxes may be a tedious thing to do 
as changes need to be made at the terminal servers end too. I 
wonder if there is an easier way or an alternative to group codes 
for setting up lat filtering of services if I were to bring up 
lat bridging between lan A and lan B?


   -----------cisco A  ------/________ cisco B ------------
	|					    |
     Lan A					LAn B

Regards,
Mag
From: nabil@ogicse.ogi.edu (Aaron Nabil)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: IGS/R's for sale $2900
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:38:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45496
Distribution: world
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us

I have 4 UNUSED IGS/R's for sale.  They have various levels of
firmware, but they average around 8.2(something).  I could check
specific units if necessary.  They are equipped with the default
1meg (512k system + 512k SIMMs) memory.  They include all of the factory
cables, boxes, etc...

Cisco SmartNet maintainance is $450/yr on a IGS. 

It may be possible to run some of them in Europe, as I believe a couple
of them might have autoranging power supplies.  I will double check
the configuration of each unit before it is shipped.

Drop me a line or give me a call at (503) 642-7074 if interested.

They are $2900/ea.  

-- 
Aaron
nabil@cse.ogi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
From: tengi@Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: Problems with vines on 8.3(5) 
             <9211122155.AA05602@wolf.cisco.com> 
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:01:28 -0500
X-Note1: mail msgid was <9211122201.AA21551@deepthought.princeton.edu>
X-Note2: message-id generated by recnews
X-Mts: smtp

Thank-you for your extremely prompt response.  I kinda thought that might be the
answer, but I thought it best to sanity-check my config stuff as well.

					/Chris
From: nabil@ogicse.ogi.edu (Aaron Nabil)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Want a *real answer* about CS-500 vs ASM performance
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:25:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45653
Distribution: world
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us

Ok, lemme see if I have this straight.

A CS-500 has some kind of embedded 68030, and has inbound/outbound
hardware flow control.  It currently supports applications such as
Xremote.

An ASM has a CSC/3 processor (68020).  A future ASM software release
may support the CSC/4 (68040/16 meg).  It has outbound only flow
control.  A future software release will support Xremote.

So, my question is what is the *real* performance of these platforms
under loaded situations?  I would imagine that Xremote is a serious
memory & cycle hog.  Which box can really handle 16 users the best?  Has
anyone performed any tests?

-- 
Aaron
nabil@cse.ogi.edu
From: tli@skat.usc.edu (Tony Li)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: Any New Products from Cisco
Date: 5 Nov 1992 23:41:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <CH-Cheng.17@CSC.mgate1.cuhk.hk> CH-Cheng@CSC.mgate1.cuhk.hk (CH Cheng) writes:

    I didn't have chance to go the Interop this year but I'm very curious to 
    know whether there are any thing new from Cisco.  Could anyone tell us?
    
We showed the 3000, the 4000, the 500-cs, the cBus II controller, and
the cBus token ring interface.  We also demoed ciscoWorks and ATM via ADSUs.

Oh yeah, and there was a presentation on IBM stuff.  ;-)

Tony Li
cisco Engineering
-- 
Tony Li - Escapee from the USC Computer Science Department          tli@usc.edu
		       The net is not what it seems.
From: jcrowder@morse.cns.vt.edu (Jeff Crowder)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: 500-cs as a router?
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:18:04 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA


Has anyone tried to use 500-cs communication servers running rip to
connect small sites to a wan backbone?  How fast can the serial
interface to the wan reliably operate?  Does rip/ppp impair the box
noticeably?

Thanks,

Jeff Crowder
Virginia Tech
From: gpkatch@alcor.concordia.ca (Gary Katch)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Help: 1 router of 10 doesn't see appletalk zone.
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:10:15 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
  Computing Services C-1012
  1455 De Maisonneuve West
  Montreal (Quebec) H3G 1M8
X-Tel: (514) 848-7632
  Fax: (514) 848-7622
Originator: gpkatch@alcor.concordia.ca

I have 8 routers on a common ethernet.  Each router can see 24
appletalk zones except for one of them.  The one router gives:

>show appletalk route
...
R Net 200 [2/G] via 6.129, 4 sec, 0 uses, Ethernet0, no zone set

All other routers say:

R Net 200 [2/G] via 6.129, 1 sec, 2 uses, Ethernet0, zone Vax2 Zone

I don't know what to look for.  The one router is not much
different from the others.  The problem appeared recently after
many months of functioning appletalk routing.  Can I force a zone
update?  Don't the routers all share zone information, and what
could possibly cause only one to act differently?

If you have any troubleshooting tips, I'd appreciate a few
pointers.

-- gk
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: Split Horizon Conflicts : IP
From: graeme@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz ( Graeme Moffat)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:59:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

tli@skat.usc.edu (Tony Li) writes:

>Sort of.  We introduced a new knob: "no ip split-horizon" in 8.3(3).
>It also made it into 9.0.  Split horizon is disabled by default on
>SMDS and FR interfaces.

There's absolutely no mention of split-horizon in my 8.3(3) manual!

-- 
Graeme Moffat                g.moffat@aukuni.ac.nz \ Time wastes us all, 
Computer Aided Design Centre,  Fax: +64-9-366-0702 /  our bodies & our wits
School of Engineering,    Ph: +64-9-737-999 x8384 /  But we waste time,
University of Auckland, Private Bag, Auckland, NZ \   so time & we are quits