Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:24:02 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: One little comment and question

Subject: Re: One little comment and question


Why is it that homosexuality is treated as a bigger sin
than lying or pride?

Here is my point conservative Christians have no problem
harping on homosexuality, but leave other sins alone.
MAKS> I think one of the "problems" is that the liar knows they are
      wrong in what they do. Usually the pride filled person also
      knows theyare not really that great. But the, and not all mind
      you, homosexual comes and says "I am and can't change, don't
      intend to change, and am convinced that God is not upset."
      This indirectly tells the person who lies, "You don't have
      to change. You've been doing this all your life. It's part
      of your being." Then there are the ones that have already
      answered, "No, it's not the same."

      This tells the liar that "You are in sin. I am not. I am
      better than you." The biggest difficulty is that most of
      the homosexuals are saying "I don't have to repent."

If homosexuality is a sin, isn't that something that the
Spirit should handle with the individual, just between the
two of them?
MAKS> Yes, as long as they are not trying to tell or being a public
      example to other Christians that they are just fine. Though
      none would disagree, it would be like the church member that
      is telling everyone that will listen that the pastor is having
      sex with the organist while anyone that knows the pastor knows
      this is an out and out lie. But the person keeps telling every
      one new, anyone that will listen, that this is happening. A
      little leven spoils the whole loaf and this person must be
      spoken to, and if they won't repent, may be have to be turned
      over to Satan and not spoken to.

I don't feel capable of speaking for God on this issue, and
rarely for any other issue either.  I'd like to point out that
the scripture says that one shouldn't judge unless he is willing
to be judged by the same standard.  The only standard I want
is mercy and forgiveness and understanding.  If God deals with
me on an issue, that is His perogative and it is up to me to
take it from there.
MAKS> It's not a judgement of the individual. Using another example.
      If a person says, "I drive 90 mph everywhere I go.", we might
      might say "You're going to kill yourself." How do we know?
      Well, we know if the individual keeps doing that, they will
      probably die.

      The Bible says "Those that do xxxxxx, will not inherit." If
      a person on the list were to say "I like to lie, I do it all
      the time, and I don't intend to stop. Last week I told 8
      members of the church that the pastor was shacking up with
      the organist." (So that's where that person went...) we
      would probably tell the, "If you don't stop, you will go to
      hell."

      But, it is not a judgement, the person has said, "There is
      a person that lies, never repents, and will die this way."
      That person is in danger of hell fire, but we do NOT know
      this person will never change, even if they say they won't
      change, God can change anyone. :-)

Who am I then to presume to understand what God wants for another
individual?
MAKS> The only presumtion is that God has said "Why do you call Me
      Lord and not do what I say?" God wants us to obey Him. We
      can presume that the Word of God is life to our flesh and
      I would think that to obey Him is what God wants for everyone.

What I am saying in a nutshell, is that I really can't find a time
when I believe I have an overriding interest in another person's
life that I should start condemning him/her for her actions, especially
when there are things that I still haven't gotten straight.
MAKS> We've talked about gambling, drinking, smoking, and all sorts of
      things here. MANY have given suggestions, and many giving those
      suggestions DID have those problems. It's called "bearing one
      anothers burdens." It seems in these conversations that when
      one says you shouldn't get drunk, it doesn't usually obtain
      the types of comments as this conversation has generated.

A scripture I haven't heard in a long while is from the book of James,
I believe, which says something about each individual working out his
own salvation with God.  The way I'd always heard this interpreted
is that what is sin for one person may not be such for another--also
like the eating of meat dispute.
MAKS> Oh, so then we agree if some goes out and murders someone every
      month that they are not in danger of judgement. After all they
      are using all the scriptures about how the Jews went in and
      cleaned the land to justify their action. Now I realize that
      SOME think there are not scriptures that out and out condem what
      they were born with.

      Now let's take the same scripture that you have just used, in
      particular the meat. If your faith is strong, go ahead, if not
      don't, but then Paul goes on to say that if his eating meat were
      to cause his brother to fall into sin and go to hell, he would
      never eat meat. The homosexual, not all again, doesn't care
      what his brother thinks, and condems his brother when they can't
      accept it. The argument given in Paul's words is not that there
      are a group of weak, no account, Christians that can't see the
      light and know that there is nothing wrong with eating meat,
      the argument is not to flaunt anything that would cause your
      brother to stumble.

      Many have a REAL problem with homosexuals. We've also seen the
      posts about it not being natural, posts that to some of us say
      it is an abomination, and many points along this line. Yet, we
      are the ones at fault, and like those that don't eat meat, it
      doesn't matter if we perish, it's time we grow up and accept
      the meat eaters, eating meat at our table, knowing how we feel,
      and told to keep our mouth shut. (I'm not flaming, nor am I
      angry, I'm just trying to portray what it looks like.)

      Thanks for bringing this one up, it IS a good example.

I say all of this, because it seems that when an issue like homosexuality
comes up, people often condemn and destroy with their words; rather
than helping, they hurt and only promote division.
MAKS> The biggest problems, hopefully have been addressed here. We feel
      it is a sin. Given the chance we would stop sacrifices to other
      Gods so the meat wasn't around to eat. But, if you have to eat
      the meat, don't ask us to eat it with you when we know where it
      came from.

      Like I said I think we would have behaved pretty much the same
      had it been someone who said they go out and murder prositutes
      to clean the city up. It may sound like a nobel task, but it is
      not right. Yet, if Joshua was here and he were about to go to
      Jerico and said he intended to slay thousands, it would have
      been right for him. Still, how many of us would have been able
      to cope with it?

      Another example I could use would be Dan, our Wicca person(?)
      We accept him, he can inject comments from time to time, and
      participate in our conversations. If he were to start posting
      how wonderful Wicca was and how our God has given His blessing
      upon him, he would solicite exactly the same reaction from
      the majority of us. I don't know how long most of those posting
      on the pro-homosexual side have been here, but there have never
      been any flames posted if you were talking about prayer, tithing,
      giving to beggers, or other subjects. They have only got flamed,
      unfortunately, for their beliefs in this one area.

      Dan, if you catch this, I hope, and don't think you mind me using
      you in this example. Thanks.

I hope I was clear.  I am a little tired right now, but felt that
I had to say this.
MAKS> I hope I was as well.

Jason

Maks...
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