HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:26:06 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Sep12.162217.1568@panix.com>, fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:

|                  Anonymity was a great feature in the early days of BBSing,
| and not because it allowed for illegal activity, because it allowed for a
| very unusual and interesting form of communication.  You Big Brother sysops
| are ruining it (In many ways, you already have).

  I guess I didn't catch the number of your system where you don't
identify people and don't censor what they post. I will post that info
on my system and I'm sure your usage will go up. Allowing handles is one
thing, not being able to identify someone is quite another.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
From: Piet.Ebbes@f107.n100.z60.echo (Piet Ebbes)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Waffle
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:55:00


Hi All,

I am new with usenet , but i am running a PCBoard system , with Waffle
as a door.

After conversion the USENET news group can be read from my PCBoard
messagebase.
I am not satifeid with this solution because much messages are split
into more and sometimes it is already a splitted usenet message so
nobody knows wich part is what.

So i want to make the disision leave all news in WAFFLE.

But now my question.
Are there ofline readers for waffle (compaired QWK readers) or something
like that.

I am looking something my users can download the News and read and post
home.

I 'll hope i get some feedback

Regards,


                     Piet     piet@hotline.wlink.nl
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: WWIV..HA!
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 02:37:01 GMT

In article <Steven_P._Oliver.038y@bearsden.UUCP> Steven_P._Oliver@bearsden.UUCP (Steven P. Oliver) writes:
>WWIV may not be cripple ware, but trying to get doors to run with it is
>next to impossible.  Using the Chain.txt file for a user information file,
>WWIV has locked itself into a groove where you MUST use software made JUST
>for WWIV or not use it at all.  I speak from having run WWIV, and the

Oh come on... I haven't called there lately, but there was a BBS here
in town that was running WWIV and had over 200 game doors.  Not even close
to all written just for WWIV.  WWIV gives you the source code, and
others freely distribute mods for this purpose or just CHAIN.TXT <->
other door info converters.
-- 
When I want to buy up any politicians I always find the anti-monopolists
the most purchasable.  They don't come so high.  -- William H. Vanderbilt
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: palladin@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (fabio palladini)
Subject: fidonet e-mail
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:27:11 GMT

How can I send mail from internet to fidonet ?

thank you!
	 fabio
From: roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 06:20:30 CDT
Organization: Villa CyberSpace, Minneapolis, MN

bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad) writes:

> I certainly don't rag on every user.  All information given to you should
> be confidential.  The only case where that would change is if a user had
> commited a felony.

I never claimed to release information.  But this thread seems to object
to the initial collection of information.

> Well... don't you think your missing something.  Most people who upload
> elite stuff either 
> a)don't know much about telecommunications via BBS's... the dif between
>   shareware/commercial (I've had a few beginners).
> b)Did it by accident...
> c)Don't read the rules (I HATE THESE PEOPLE... 50% of the BBSing population)

I have to admit that I hate 'em, too.  But I also have little patience
with them.  Quite frankly, if someone isn't willing to abide by the
rules I set forth for my system, I'd rather (and I sometimes insist)
that they play elsewhere.  As for the "I did it by accident" argument, I
don't often buy that at all.  Most, if not all, computerists know where
they got their software.

> In fact, most uploaders don't try to PASS INFO THROUGH YOUR SYSTEM!!!!
> Are we a wee bit paranoid there?

No.  It's my system.  And I'm not talking simply about uploaders.  I'm
talking about anyone who uses my system.  No name and phone number, no
access.  Simple as that.  Don't like it?  Drop carrier now.

> We sysops tend to get this power trip that we ARE GOD on our
> systems.

We sysops ARE God on our systems, Beastor.  We own the hardware.  We buy
or write the software.  We pay for the phone lines.  We can pull the
plug any time we want.

> At the same time, I also remember that I'm supplying a public
> service, and users should be treated with respect and rights. If you don't
> want to do this, then don't put up a BBS... your not right for the job. There
> are plenty other BBS's which have Sysops who believe this.

If you want to cede your owner's interest in your equipment and property
to a bunch of people you don't know, and can't identify if they use your
property for verifiably illegal purposes, that's your decision.  I view
my system, when open, as a service to the public, which is not the same
as a public service.  New users get my conditions up front.  If they
choose not to agree to my terms, they don't call back.  I can live with
that very easily.

> Yes... it's a real world... but that doesn't mean we have to cover ourselves
> with pettiness to combat it!

When the judge asks you about the illegal activities you permit and
promote on your system, be sure you tell him you didn't want to appear
petty.
--
Roy M. Silvernail --  roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu - OR-  cybrspc!roy@cs.umn.edu
           "I used to be disgusted, but now I'm just amused."
                                  -- from an old T-shirt
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: Usenet
Keywords: Fidonet
Organization: The Tiny Software Co., via APK Public Access Unix, Cleveland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:43:42 GMT

davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
>larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>
>>randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:
>
>>>That's because Larry charges for news and mail feeds, which most people give
>>>away for free.
>
>IMHO this is kind of really irresponsible remark that lends to the
>bickering that's been raising the noise to signal ratio around here. 
>Of the something like 40,000 machines on USENET how many give away
>feeds for free? And what criteria do you use for "most"?
>>does uunet give them away for free?  How about uupsi?  

UUNET and PSI are commercial connectivity providers. Of course they charge.
That's one of the ways they make money. There are other places to look besides
the commercial outfits.

>>usually those who offer reliable feeds charge.  Those one want a reliable
>>feed, usually don't mind paying
>
>IMHO this is a definite factor: not only what you get, but how
>reliable/timely is what you get. 

Wrong. I have a reliable AND timely newsfeed and mail feed which I don't
pay for. There are several public access systems in Northeast Ohio alone which
offer free feeds. Donations are not mandatory although they are welcome. 

>For example, when I was in the U.S. last spring I found a great,
>free, usenet and email site within my daughters local dialing area.
>I tested it out and found I could send mail to my home machine for
>nothing!  But, uuhhh, it only took about 10-20 calls to get through
>the busy signals and mail took 3 day to get there. I set her up with
>a TYMNET link and over which she calls Japan directly and it gets
>charged to my VISA card. 

But this is just your experience with ONE system. It is not indicative
of ALL systems and you cannot possibly generalize and still make sense.

My feed collects mail and news from upstream about once an hour and is one
hop from the Internet.

>Dave
>
>--
>Dave McLane 
>JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
>Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

-- 
***  **  ** | The Tiny Software Co.  23707 Glenhill  Cleveland OH 44122
 *  *   *   | Steve Sobol * President * sjsobol@tiny.com or tiny!sjsobol 
 *   *  *   | Alternate addresses: sjsobol@wariat.org or ag510@po.cwru.edu
 *    * *   | Disclaimer: I *AM* the Tiny Software Company. 
 *  **   ** | **Welcome to Ohio, the Land of the Orange Construction Barrel**
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: RA 1.11 and WIndows 3.1
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:06:51 GMT

I was just wondering if anyone had a RA 1.11 Professional running in the
background of Windows 3.1 fine (no... I don't want Windows flames thanx
anyways, but I need to use Excel, Word For Windows 2.0, and Corel Draw and
OS/2 v2.0 is too unstable with windows applications for me).  I have a
386/33DX, 8 megs of 70ns memory, 130 meg hard drive partitioned into 1 drive,
1 line running with a SUPRAFAX v.32bis modem.

WIll there be any problems.

Thanks for any info...

PS... I posted messages before asking for multi-line information and MUD
information... and I've stalled those programs.  BELL CANADA charges 
around 90 bucks installation for each line, 40 dollars per month per line
if you want call waiting.  And to install any more then 5 lines costs over
1000 installation fees.  How are rates elsewhere?

Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet
From: swalter@nyx.cs.du.edu (DreamWeaver)
Subject: Re: GEnie Connection
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 00:37:50 GMT


I'd just like to toss a couple more points onto Yury's post about the
GEnie/Internet link ... which is about time, if you ask me.

1) Just because you know someone's GEMail address doesn't mean you'l{
automatically be able to send to them from Internet by using
<GEMail.Address>@genie.geis.com.  They (on the GEnie end) must first
subscribe to the Internet gateway (that's the $9.95/month charge Yury
quoted in the previous post).  If they don't subscribe, the GEnie
PostMaster will barf your mail back at you telling you that the address
you're trying to send to isn't allowed to receive Internet mail (I've
already tried this ... that's what happens).

2)  The ~$10/month fee is in additional to GEnie's standard rates.

3)  Like they said, this is strictly an Internet Mail gateway.  GEnie
doesn't have ftp or news-feed capability (although, I'm wondering whether
GEnie users could subscribe to Internet Mail lists ... it seems feasable).

-Scotty

Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet
From: ia4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Imran Anwar)
Subject: Re: GEnie Connection
Reply-To: ia4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Imran Anwar)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:23:28 GMT

In article <18q5mlINN4bq@bigboote.WPI.EDU> macman@newton.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) writes:
>In an article yury@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) rambles:
>
>> GEnie's(R) Internet Mail Service Rates and Terms
>> ================================================
>
>> *  $9.95 subscription fee per month; renewed automatically each month.
>>
>> *  $ .40 per outbound message, billed to your GEnie account on a monthly
>>    basis.
>>
>> *  GEnie's Internet Mail Service subscription fee includes unlimited
>>    inbound messages.
>
>So, let me get this straight... if someone on GEnie wants internet mail,
>they have to pay an EXTRA $9.95 a month???  Plus .40 for EACH message sent?
>
>And what happens if I send mail to someone who doesn't subscribe to this...
>does it bounce or just get lost...
>
>I mean, look at what America Online is doing... free inbound and outbound
>messages... I think Compuserve is also free.  Well, this is probably the
>wrong newsgroup... but if someone can just clarify for me what would happen
>if I send an internet message to a GEnie person who does NOT subscribe.  If
>it just gets sucked up by the wind, I am NOT going to bother to tell my users
>about this gateway... that would be useless.
>
>- Chris
>
>
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>   Chris Silverberg                     INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu
>   Worcester Polytechnic Institute      WMUG BBS  508-832-5844 (TeleFinder)
>   America Online: TfChris              FIDONET:  1:322/115.1


Interestingly, I do think that CIS charges me for all internet email I send
AND receive, at least that is what the billing info suggests.

:-(

Imran Anwar
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: cblaise@moose.uvm.edu.UUCP (Chris Blaise)
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux, fee for access. (was Sad to say...)
Originator: cblaise@moose.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:43:52 GMT

From article <BuDto1.6LJ@gator.rn.com>, by larry@gator.rn.com (Larry A
Snyder):

 *sigh*

> Try that with Fidonet -- first off, you have to have netmail credit

	Like so many things in the BBS world, it depends on the system.
We offer free netmail because we route it low priority.

> posted to one machine, then you have to have enough machines set up
> as a relay to answer the phones.   Internet is much more efficient
> regardless of what Randy comes back with

	Efficiency is about the only thing I see usenet having over
Fidonet.
> 
> Fidonet is operated out of garages and basements, while usenet for the most
> part is operated by corporate america and universities.

	Both of which are subject to the whims and pressures within.  If
the company or university doesn't want alt.sex.movies, they don't have
to give it to their workplace/campus and if they're a feed, it's usually
unfortunate for those underneath them.  The campus/corp below them may
not have either the expertise or ambition to goto another feed and the
result is that the users suffer.  With fidonet, at least there's a bit
more control on the part of the SysOp.
> 
> Don't forget, Fidonet is called the amateur network for a reason!
> 

	"Aw Hell" and "Amen" at the same time!
 
 TTYL
 Chris

Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Organization: The Gator Public Access Unix Site - 219-289-3745
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 12:40:04 GMT

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>This is quite true.  My system is a good example of that decline.  I started
>this BBS as a small, alias-based system running RBBS on my old original Compaq.
>I got bit by the fidonet bug before usenet, and local stuff declined from that

most of us started with fidonet, then mature into usenet

>The catch is that netnews has grown into such a large party that it's really
>easy to join in.  Being 'just' a node on the net sounds bad, because it tends

With the evolution of DOS software and hardware priced within
everyones reach, like you said just about anyone can get involved,
which many times is the reason for the distribution problems with
headers getting re-written, etc.  But, not all sites get a free feed -
many pay for services like uunet (or us) and a good portion of those
don't want to have to pay since they go with the attitude they
should get a free feed (which goes with the fidonet frame of mind)

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 08:35:33 CDT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS, New Orleans, LA

davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>
> I think the recent threads are the result of people having made the
> last choice: it's not enough that they do what they've decided they
> can afford to do, they want to try and convince others that it's the
> Only Way and try and turn any discussion into a Religious Crusade in
> favor of that decision. While the result may be somebody else's cup
> of tea, I don't find it interesting, enjoyable, or useful and will
> absent myself any further such pouring from the empty into the void.
>

David, I've been thinking that we need an alt.religion.bbs group or something
to attempt to remove some of the attitude that concerns you.  Jeez, we've even
got a *nix clone flame war going on here!

On to your philosophy regarding BBSs:  I agree with it essentially.  One thing
I've noticed over the years, however, is the slow decline of the local bbs.  In
our efforts to network our systems, we have offered users so many options
beyond the local that we're just a local node on the net.

I agree with the concept of a free BBS, in all that implies.  If I can't afford
a feature (like another line), I'm not going to add it.  I'm not even really
interested in donations to the system.  I normally tell users to make a
contribution to the local university that is my netnews feed.

Maybe your article will spark some discussion beyond whether or not Coherent
is/is not Unix and whether or not it sucks.




|Edward J. Branley                         elendil@mintir.New-Orleans.LA.US|
|Seashell Software                                UUCP:  rex!mintir!elendil|
|3508 North Woodlawn Avenue                          Compu$erve: 71237,2227|
|Metairie, LA   70006       voice: +1-504-455-5087     bbs: +1-504-455-8665|
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux, fee for access. (was Sad to say...)
Keywords: Fidonet
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 17:21:37 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

> Hey Murph!  I tried to send you mail a while back and it bounced.  I'll try
> again off of this article...

Ya, I got it - thanks!

> > It was my opinion that these amateur hobbyists would have jumped at the cha
> > to really get into their hobby and configure their systems to do this kind 
> > routing to keep the costs down.  Nope!  All I got as I debated the point wa
> > that "it's only a hobby" and they shouldn't be expected to get that detaile
> 
> You've hit the nail on the head.  Many sysops these days are amateurs but not
> hobbyists.  Maybe if you had some ex-phreakers or at least a couple of guys w
> knew something about how the phone system works, what you're looking for
> shouldn't be impossible.

I hope I didn't come off as suggesting anything illegal like phreaking.  For
us in New England, it was more of a common sensical thing.  We have strings of
computers going from just about one end of our region to the other.  Just a
simple matter of thinking about things for a bit and you could see how sending
echomail all around wasn't such a big thing.

Netmail (direct e-mail), though, was quite another thing.  It is beyond me why
Fidonet's sysops don't offer mail to their users more than they do.  In fact,
it is the rare system who allows unlimited netmail!  Unbelievable!  They're
all afraid that it's going to cost them some money or some such.  <sigh>  In
the Internet, of course, direct mail is de rigueur.

> The politics in fido can be a real bear.  Nothing beats net.anarchy, IMHO.

Heh, I'm no stranger to anarchy.  Remember our old V-Net days?  <grin>

                         Your friend in Lawrence, Massachusetts...
                                      - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
   SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
From: hagopes@works.uucp (Yinco Schmeer)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: MAC-based BBS SW?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 01:32:14 EDT
Organization: The Works BBS

Leo O'Donnell writes:
   >>Does anyone know of any MAC-based BBS packages?<<

There are a few, most notably Hermes which is Shareware, is decent but 
kind of buggy, although the new version (soon) should fix all those... 
There is also Second Sight, a commercial board program, but I don't know 
much about it... There are some others that I haven't mentioned here, byt 
they aren't that popular. Heremes is probably the most common...

   >>any that are also available for UNIX boxes?<<

I don't konw...
From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux, fee for access. (was Sad to say...)
Keywords: Fidonet
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon, US
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:04:25 GMT

murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

> I think Larry's right when he say's one "matures" out of Fidonet.

Funny.  I added FidoNet after years on the ARPANET, Internet and uucp.  In
the mid '80s, FidoNet was great!  You could change the world overnight by a
little hacking and cooperation among a small number of people.  Ahh, the
flexibility of a small universe.

And today, it often proves to be the network of choice in net.poor areas such
as the developing world and the US's own thirld world, K-12.

It's the networking 'hobbyists' (one never imagined that there would be
such.) who flit from network to network always saying that the current
network they use is 'the best'.  The tools in my toolbox each have their
uses.  It's all in how the tool meets the need.  When the need is the ego,
then networking tools have yet to be shown to meet it.

> In a later message, either Larry or Edward mentions that they had to support
> their Fidonet NEC's phone bill for echomail (newsgroups).

That's because Larry charges for news and mail feeds, which most people give
away for free.

> After suggesting that they remove some of those extra "hats" to get down to
> the business of _coordinating,_ suggesting that they were lazy, incompetent,
> or just greedy for wanting others to pay for unnecessary long-distance
> charges, I was kicked out.

Wonder how helpful and constructive you were in 'suggesting'.  Don't tell
us.  We can imagine.  Is your state flower the sour grape?

BTW, I notice that your message was posted from FidoNet.  Do you always bite
the hand that feeds you?  And do you honestly expect us to believe that your
attitude and behavior will change with the network you abuse today or the
color of your hair shirt?

Sheesh!

randy
-- 
randy@psg.com   ...!uunet!m2xenix!randy
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re2: TBBS is very limited
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 00:27:11 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:

>base TBBS/TDBS product isn't the cheapest thing around.  But, let's start talking about the support down the road and how much it costs.  How much did you
>spend for you last UNIX upgrade?
You can have a UNIX clone for free (or at download cost).

>Or better yet, how much are you paying
>for technical support of your UNIX system?  All of those wonderful add-on
>products you are referring to cost money as well.  
There are many wonderful add-on products that cost nothing (or maybe the cost
of downloading).

>To reiterate, the corporations I deal with want a functioning, reliable
>system with a company that can support it with reliability.
Fine.

>TBBS and TDBS supply this.
Other systems too.

Greetings,
Peter Busser
Newsgroups: alt.bbs