HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores
Date: 15 Aug 92 09:56:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 8237 in rec.equestrian: shonette@master.CNA.TEK.COM 
	(Shonette Rogers) writes:

>>Tracy writes:
>>a side-pull
>>has a rope nose band, a leather chin strap and two rings on the sides
>>of the bridle to attach reins to.  It does not have a bit.

>The one I saw had a leather nose band.  I'm interested to know
>how this thing works (looked to me like it wasn't much different
>that wearing a halter!).

It isn't.  The pressure is exactly like riding with a halter, the
only difference is that the rope, or some have braided leather over
cable is a little harder to ignore than a wide flat noseband.  As
with bosals you must make certain that it does not abraid your
horse's nose.  The TTEAM practitioner out here recommends wrapping
the noseband in fleece.
  
>If my horse is working good enough, I'd
>like to compete in this instead of a mechanical hackamore!

Good idea, but why not just try competing in your training gear, I
believe you said you used a Tom Thumb??

>>I applaud the communication comment.  But if you are communicating so
>>well then why are (were) you using a mechanical hackamore only in competition??
>>My thought is you should be able to compete well in whatever you use
>>to school at home and if you can't then something is wrong with your
>>schooling or communications.

>That's an interesting question that I never really thought about.
	{stuff deleted}
> She rode the mare in a bit during practice and when
>pleasure riding so that she could have lots of control and that 
>her horse would "feel freer" when competing, she rode in a hackamore.
>Also, stopping was the only time she needed control since the horse
>was very good at the pattern.

From what you said however your horse stops via your seat, you don't
really even need your hands to stop your horse.

>I just did it because the horse was used to that routine. 
	{stuff deleted} 
>I don't know WHY *I* did it after that.  I *Could*
>ride in my tom thumb during competition (considering I do it
>at local playdays and stuff but Lady is still in training so...)

Give it a try, who knows?

>  I prefer NOT to have contact when asking my horse for
>  speed).  Confused yet? :-)

Never.  Since you prefer not to have contact when asking for speed (something
I also did when I barrel raced) then whether your horse wears a bit, a 
side-pull, or a hackamore will not affect your speed.  Whatever your horse
is comfortable wearing and is happy in will give you the free-est fastest
runs.

				Tracy and everybody
From: DBEAM@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Trailering a Weanling
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:33:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: wvnvm.92232.143314DBEAM


     A new youngster is joining my "herd" (1 pony mare+1 throughbred gelding)
 this fall.  He was born June 7th and we will be bringing him home around the
 middle of October.  He will have to travel from southern WV to Northern WV.
 It is about a 3 hr drive.  The first hour is a typical winding WV road.
 The second 2hrs will be all interstate.  The trailer we will probably use is
 an open (I think) stock trailer.

     I need some advice on trailering such a young horse.  He should have been
 weaned by then.  My uncle, who is giving me this colt (my favorite uncle :*)
 is willing to let us bring the mare along if needed.  Should he be wrapped?
 Should he be loose in the trailer?  Should someone ride with him?

    Any suggestions will be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Diana ...Apollo ...Beauty...and NoNameYet QH colt
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale)
Subject: Re: IRISH - how big is small?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:01:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.200448.19054@cbfsb.cb.att.com> pfau@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (lynn.r.pfau) writes:
>There has been a lot of discussion about IRISH  being "small".
>Does anyone know just how small he is?
>
>thanks, Lynn Pfau
>AT&T
>Naperville, Il
>ihlpe!pfau

The announcer I heard said he was 16h.  I, personally, don't consider
that small.  But then again, I'm short.   Although I ride English
and have for years, I consider the English obsession with monstrous
size to be at ludicrous.  Small doesn't mean that can't jump, as
Irish has shown us clearly.

Give me a Lippett Morgan (less than 15.1), and I'll show you a horse!

Ruth

-- 
=============================================================================
  I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
    not sure you realize that what you understand is not what I meant.
=========================== rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca ======================
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: leg position, hunt seat
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:59:27 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

gale@chrysos.Eng.Sun.COM (Gale Snow) writes:

>i audited a clinic given by mary wanless last year.  her books are *very*
>good too.  anyway she emphasizes stillness in the riders position.  but note
>that the rider is hardly still, but you must strive for stillness *relative
>to the horse's motion*.  this is where the relaxation comes in.  do not lock
>the ankle, knee, hip, elbow, shoulder joints, otherwise you will be unable
>to go with the horse's motion.  switch to a right-brain mode of thinking to
>check on the stillness of your body relative to the horse.  i highly recommend
>ms. wanless' book "the natural rider" for more of her tips on riding.


Ooo - lucky you!  I would _kill_ to ride with Mary Wanless - her books
are *great*.  The most recent, _Ride With Your Mind: Masterclass_ (if that's
not the exact title, it's real close) is even better than _The Natural
Rider_, IMHO (it's got pictures, for one thing, and she's dealing with
specific problems of specific riders).  I've probably become more
effective just by reading _Masterclass_ than a month's worth of "normal"
lessons could have made me.

Anyone know if she's going to be around (USA, New England, in particular)
anytime?


--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: Obstacles on the trail
Summary: How to get over them
Keywords: What to do about obstacles
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:26:33 GMT

Hi,

I thought that among all the cross country eventers out there there
might be some advice on overcoming obstacles on the trail, or winning
a stubborn horses' trust.  I have a 1/2 Arab/1/2 QH gelding, a 12 yr
old who seems he was professionaly trained (I only guess this because
I'm comparing him to other professionally trained horses I've ridden)
and he's a big baby about strange obstacles on the trail, yet he will
cross innocuous looking streams/puddles and is not spookey on the trail.
But if he is on a new trail and asked to cross something mildly scarey
looking (a small ditch ;filled with a big rock for example) he refuses.
My guess is he doesn't trust me enough to go where I tell him.  He
usually does give in if I fight with him for about 45 minutes, totally
sweating him up by spinning and legging until he goes, but it just ain't
worth the battle. My friend says he's one of those horses who knows he's
big and strong and has gotten his way in the past most likely. I've had
him over a year and done alot of trail work and he will cross anything
if another horse goes first,but up front or alone forget it.  It takes
the fun out of trail riding, I don't dare to go anywhere he might "win"
by refusing to cross a bad place, so we stick to trails he's used to
except when riding with others whos' horses will cross strange things.
Considering one of those people is a 55+ year old rider on a 22 yr old
horse riding *bareback* this is pretty depressing.  Any advice would ;be
appreciated.  Thanks

Karen Karlsson
--
----
Karen Karlsson on Joakim Karlsson's account
aviator@athena.mit.edu
----
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Trailering a Weanling
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:24:43 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: DBEAM@wvnvm.wvnet.edu's message of 19 Aug 92 18:33:14 GMT

In article <92232.143314DBEAM@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> DBEAM@wvnvm.wvnet.edu writes:

   A new youngster is joining my "herd" (1 pony mare+1 throughbred gelding)
   this fall.  He was born June 7th and we will be bringing him home around the
   middle of October.  He will have to travel from southern WV to Northern WV.
   It is about a 3 hr drive.  The first hour is a typical winding WV road.
   The second 2hrs will be all interstate.  The trailer we will probably use is
   an open (I think) stock trailer.

   I need some advice on trailering such a young horse.  He should have been
   weaned by then.  My uncle, who is giving me this colt (my favorite uncle :*)
   is willing to let us bring the mare along if needed.  Should he be wrapped?
   Should he be loose in the trailer?  Should someone ride with him?

       Diana ...Apollo ...Beauty...and NoNameYet QH colt

According to an article in EQUUS a couple of years back, professional
shippers say the best traveller (statistically) is a foal travelling
in a loose box with its dam.  The worst is a weanling travelling
alone.  It may mean an extra trip to return the mare, but it'll be a
lot easier on the baby to have Mom along!  (Assuming she trailers
reasonably well.)

Recent research at UC-Davis has validated anecdotal evidence that
horses travel best (have lowest stress, as quantified by heart rates)
when in a roomy trailer such as a stock trailer, particularly when
allowed to face BACKWARDS.  This is especially critical on winding
roads, or when there will be a lot of stop-and-go.  Either leave the
horse loose, or tie it with enough slack that it can raise and
especially *lower* its head to balance (without getting tangled in its
rope, of course).

If you take the mare along, tie her facing the rear of the trailer,
and leave the baby loose.  If you haul only the baby, whether or not
you tie him depends on which way he seems calmer, which will depend on
his temperament and how well halter-broke he is.  If a halter is new
to him, being tied will panic him, whereas if he has been taught to
stand tied up for long times, being tied may provide a reassuring
"context" to the trailer ride.  I would forgo the wraps, just because
he probably never had to wear them for 3 hours (reduce his stress by
adding the fewest possible new things at once).  Similarly, whether a
person rides with him (BTW, it's illegal in most states) is a
judgement call---does he find humans reassuring or stressful?  If
there is someone back there, they need a way of signalling the driver
to pull over!

Since you've got a couple of months, you have time to decide what
feels most comfortable for you, and have your uncle train the colt
accordingly, i.e. get him used to standing tied up, take him for short
trailer rides, etc.

Congratulations on your new "kid"!

Marsha Jo Hannah		Murphy must have been a horseman--
La Honda, CA			anything that can go wrong, will!
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: The Whip Was: CO2 pistol
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:57:24 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

In article <14201@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) writes:
>I'm confused.  If a horse is not a little scared of the whip, then why
>would the whip do any good?  You want them to move away from it.  Or
>do you mean they should be apprehensive, but not panicked?
>
I believe that the correct use of a whip never involves the horse being
afraid of it as an object.  Even when it is used in a strictly disciplinary
fashion, you want the horse to respect its action and connect it to
his own misbehavior, not become afraid of the whip itself.

In dressage the whip is more often used to clarify an aid then to 
discipline a horse, and you need to be able to switch the whip
freely from one hand to the other without upsetting the horse.  The
last thing you want is for the horse to be apprehensive.

The whip is basically an extension of your leg.  You want the
horse to move forward from the whip when you are asking him
to move forward from the leg, or you might use it further behind
the girth than your leg can easily go to help clarify the idea
of moving away from your leg in lateral movements.

Hope that helps!
  Debbie
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: Re: bit suggestions wanted
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 01:39:11 GMT

Hi Dorothy!  I have a 1/2 Arab and he sounds similar to Danny, he also
gets excited with a group of horses out on the trail and wants to be in
the front, or "race" until he catches up with them.  Actually, he much
calmer now that I've had him over a year now.  He's by far taken the longest
of any horse I've ever had to learn to trust me.  Maybe Danny needs to get
to know you better and will calm down with time like my horse did.  The
bit I use that works well is the Tom Thumb Snaffle.  It is the mildest
western bit, the one below the curb.  Yet with a chain chin strap it is
pretty effective on the trail.  Silver does not stop well on the trail in
an eggbut snaffle, but he listens to the Tom Thumb well.  He also used to
toss his head when I first bought him - perhaps a product of hard hands in
the past, but since being ridden on this bit with gentle hands he almost
never tosses his head.  I'd try a 4" Tom Thumb with curb chain on Danny.
If he gets strong on the trail, try facing him the other way so he cant
see the horses he wants to be with, also try circling him until he calms
down.  Once they are out of sight he should be better behaved.  Make him
think he will *not* get any farther along until he goes at the gait YOU
specify (circling works on some horses).  Get his mind off the horses
up ahead.  We've had several horses at the barn like that and these 
tactics worked on them.  Every horse is different, I think Danny will calm
down once he gets to know you ;better and trust you, but do try these
things too.  Hope this helps!

Karen Karlsson
--
----
Karen Karlsson on Joakim Karlsson's account
aviator@athena.mit.edu
----
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: plotkin@spliz.East.Sun.COM (David Plotkin - Sun NYC Consulting)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: used tack shops in NYC area
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:54:10 GMT
Reply-To: plotkin@spliz.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spliz.east.sun.com

Do you know the name of a good used/new tack shop in the New York City area?
I'm willing to drive a little . . .

Thanks.

	dp
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Subject: Wolf teeth?
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:23:07 GMT

I have a question about wolf teeth.  I had thought wolf teeth 
tended to appear in 5-10 year old geldings, were generally
small and triangular, grew in the gumline above the regular
teeth and were always towards the back of the mouth.  I have
never actually seen one.

One of the horses at our barn has seemed unusually tense the last
couple of times I rode him (he's normally pretty hot, so its a
little hard to tell) and I decided to take a look in his mouth.

I didn't get any further than the very front, because he has what
looks like a small triangular tooth growing in between his
two front teeth!  Is this likely to be a wolf tooth?  Could
it be causing discomfort?

	Debbie
	deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
    
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON)
Subject: Re: Hackamores  (I'm posting this for Jodie Gilmore)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.135930.4648@cs.cornell.edu>, marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh) writes...
> 
>(an aside--I am amazed that Olympic people can use mechanical hackamores
>in show jumping. I am sure that if I had showed up at a jumping show
>in WA when I was showing, I would have been disqualified for inappropriate
>equipment!)
> 
Jumpers are pretty much free to use any kind of equipment that works--
in contrast to HUNTERS.

Sherron
From: bkowal@aludra.usc.edu (Brian A. Kowal)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: therapy for the impaired
Date: 21 Aug 1992 14:38:37 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Does anyone know of any equestrian camps/programs for either
handicaped or emotionally disturbed people.

Studies have been done on the benefits of horses on aiding people
either with coordination or emotional problems. 

If anyone knows of anything like this could you please send
information.  I have a little sister who will be graduating with a
psychology degree and who knows a lot about horses and who is a
fantastic rider.  She would love to be able to combine these two
interests.

A program anywhere in the world would be fine.

Thanks in advance
my e-mail is kowal@aludra.usc.edu

Brian A. Kowal
Unix Tech Support 
University of Southern California
From: pbooth@ps.ucl.ac.uk (Peter Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Hackamores (I'm posting this for Jodie Gilmore)
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:47:59 GMT
Organization: Photogrammetry and Surveying, UCL

davek@informix.com (David Kosenko) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.135930.4648@cs.cornell.edu> 
>	marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh) posting for Jodie Gilmore writes:
>>I thought I'd add my 2 cents' worth about hackamores. I have ridden
>>with a hackamore for about as long as I can remember. When I break
>>my horses, I usually start them in a snaffle (every horse, esp. ones
>>you want to resell, should be able to work in a bit). But then I
>>alternate between bit and hackamore for training work. Of course, you
>>can't show in a hackamore, in most cases.
>>
>>(an aside--I am amazed that Olympic people can use mechanical hackamores
>>in show jumping. I am sure that if I had showed up at a jumping show
>>in WA when I was showing, I would have been disqualified for inappropriate
>>equipment!)

>It was my impression that for Open Jumpers, *anything* goes; all that matters
>is whether the horse gets over the fence without a knockdown.  Supposedly,
>you don't even have to "dress up", though most do anyway.

If Open Jumper competitions are held under FEI (Federation Equestrian
Internationale) rules then *anything* doesn't go. Draw (running) reins
are prohibited, as are Market Harboroughs, spurs longer than a nominal
length or sharp spurs, whips longer than (32?) inches and, I believe
standing martingales. I believ there may be restrictions on the type
of mechanical hackamore used as well. Riders in the US are fortunate to
have a tradition of hunter equitation and jumper classes. In Australia,
most showjumping is judged not on style, but faults for knockdowns, stops
etc. This was changing when I left Oz two years ago.

--
Peter Booth                             email: pbooth@ps.ucl.ac.uk
Department of Photogrammetry & Surveying
University College London               Tel: (44) 71 387 7050 extn 2742
Gower Street, London, WC1E 6BT          Fax: (44) 71 380 0453

>						-E. Saliers
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee Raines)
Subject: Re: Help with Yearling ?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:03:56 GMT

In article <9730078@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Donna Griffiths) writes:
|> Hmm, I wonder about lunging a yearling in circles...
|> 
|> I think it might be wise to  reconsider  the  lunging  in a circle,  as
|> earlier  posts have pointed out, stress on young  horses can  influence
|> future  soundness.  I have  had  many  yearlings  and  never  has a vet
|> recommended  lunging due to the stress it puts on their knees.  Perhaps
|> he meant "free" lunging as in a large  rectangular pen or pasture area?
|> 
|> Even short periods of lunging may cause problems.
|> 
|> Another way to get some exercise  would be ponying the yearling from an
|> older  experienced  horse.  I have had great results with this since it
|> also gets the  little  one used to the  oddities  of the trail  without
|> having  to deal  with a human on its back and the plus of having a calm
|> buddy along.
|> 
|> Cherry Hill has some excellent books in local bookstores, such as
|> "The Formative Years" and others.
|> 
|> my 2 cents,
|> 
|> Donna
|> 

I've heard (and read) that a little bit of lunging (say, 10 minutes) at
the end of the lunge line (25-30 feet out) is ok.  But it's also one of those
things that you need to be careful about.  I like my babies to know
as much as possible as young as possible because it's so much easier
to work with them--they get halters put on and taken off when they're
24-48 hours old.  They start getting led (behind mama) when they're
a few days old.  By the time they're a few weeks old, they can be
led around mama while she's grazing, etc.  It keeps the fights to
a minimum and they learn to accept new stuff calmly.  When they're a 
year old, I like them to understand the concept of lunging and start with 
them walking around me in a small circle which gradually gets larger 
and larger and eventually goes from walk to trot.  These are all very, 
very short sessions.  Also at a year, they start getting used to a saddle
and bridle, and I put a little weight on the stirrup with my hand.  Nobody
gets on these babies until they're at least 2 (no flames, please, this 
just goes from weight in the stirrup to foot in the stirrup, to standing
up in the stirrup, to laying over the saddle, to throwing a leg over and
sitting, and then off.  Teddy was 3 1/2 when he went off to the trainer
to actually be ridden.).

Just my 2 (hey, there's no cent sign on my keyboard).  I think a little
lunging of a young hose, depending on the horse, done carefully, by someone 
who knows what they're doing, can be okay. (Did I get enough qualifiers
in there?:^)  I also agree that free lunging is a good idea, and you're a lot 
less likely to stress the legs.  

Mary Lee Raines
Ravenswood Appaloosas
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores (was:show jumping results)
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:53:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

Shonette, the experience you had with the mechanical hackamore
pinching your horse's face is NOT the way it is supposed to act.
The fellow riding the mare in the show jumping had the lever arm
joint well padded with sheepskin in order to prevent it from
pinching the horse's face.  Any hackamore that does pinch should
be so padded or it should not be used at all.  As for throwing
the head this is an indication that the head gear is inappropriate
for that horse, either the horse is too sensitive to the chain
under the chin or the hackamore was pinching as you described,
in both cases use of the hackamore should be discontinued.  If
with proper padding the hackamore does not pinch and the horse
no longer throws the head then use of a mechanical hackamore
would be ok, but no horse should wear ANY bridle or bit that
causes them to throw their heads up at all!  And to reiterate
pinching of the sides of the face is NOT the way a mechanical
hackamore should operate, no horse should have to wear a 
devise that pinches (that includes bits that pinch the tongue,
try laying your snaffle bit over your arm and put pressure on
the rings as though you were pulling the reins, if it pinches the
skin of your forearm it will pinch your horse's tongue!)
	The action of a properly functioning mechanical hackamore
is down on the poll, back on the nose and up under the chin just the
way a curb bit acts.  

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian