HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: visible inauthenticity of archery
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:03:00 GMT

Greetings!

Nope, no broken linen strings yet.  One Dacron string abraded to the
point of being non-serviceable (watch Graydon take his heart in his
hands and modify the bow's nocks.  It worked...), one kevlar string
that snapped at 1700+ shots (I was stupid; missed visible necking
under the nocking point) with no ill effects on anything but my nerves,
a linen string retired for testing at 598 shots (first one; want to
break it with a tensionometer and see what the tensile strength really
is), and the second one at 631 shots (and counting), doing fine.

Yes, I do count shots on the strings.  Arrows, too.  I even have a
few arrow entries with the final notation 'lost in forest'. :]

Not planning on having a linen string break on the bow if I can help it.

Graydon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Societal Paradox (As It Should Have Been)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:41:18 GMT


[Frederick is having posting problems at the moment and asked me to
post this for him.  I am only too happy to oblige....  --whh]
---------
Frederick of Holland to various people, greeting:
	Bertram -- As One of Those Who Was There, I have to say that your
summation of How It Happened is pretty much right on the mark.  I've been
trying to tell people for years.  Hope you have better luck.
	Everyone -- This is not to say that research is bad and that we
ought to ignore it.  I've done my share and I gleefully devour other people's
when the subject interests me.  However, I do think that there is a differ-
ence between our research and our application, and that we _do_ have the
right to mess with reality if it suits the purpose of the general overall
(re)creation of the SCA.  Selective inclusion of historic bits is a good way
to put it (That's yours, Cariadoc, I believe.)
	I like the SCA the way it is, mostly, and will fight to continue to
keep it that way. (Radical conservatism is a period attitude for most of 
our class.)  And you will pry the title  and from of Master at Arms from
my name when I am dead and moldering in the grave, if then.

   *   *   *    Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. 
  *** *** ***   flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu
  _|___|___|_   On Bitnet, try: flieg@ucbgarne
 |===========|  
  (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
 ================== Old Used Duke  =================
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Bjorn@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.ORG (Bjorn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Archers' Speed
Date: 5 Nov 92 05:00:02 GMT
Organization: The Internet

mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Mark Richard Dewis),
Richard of Dunheved, Lochac, said:

MRD> d) manufactured arrowheads (cast?)

Arrowhead were generally forged, not cast.

-Bjorn Bjorklund, rbjorklund@argos.ims.disa.mil, but you can call me Bjorn

 -- SPEED 1.00 [NR]: "Forge all day, dance all night!" - the Dancing Smith
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: I am still bewildered
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:04:37 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!

William, I'm not sure what it is that bewilders you.  

Your posting made some very clear observations of what the SCA is, and how
that differs from what we claim to be (or at least, what we claim to be
trying to be).  The SCA is indeed an organization with ambitious,
idealistic stated goals, which fails to live up to them in many regards.
It is an organization in which there is a jumble of skills, interests, and
philosophies.  It is an organization in which individual preference is
raised as a banner, often to the disadvantage of other participants, and in
which individual accomplishment is preferred to group success.  It is an
organization which has collectively preferred openness to focus and
widespread appeal to accuracy.  It is loosely controlled, ill-defined,
poorly conceived, and proud of its structural weakness.  It is far more a
group of people who have chosen to play together, rather than a set of
rules by which people have chosen to play.

Is it this very nature that confuses you?  If so, why?  Perhaps this is a
distinctly American phenomenon, but the openness and flexibility is
precisely what will allow Drachenwald to make of it what you choose.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Welsh name question
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 16:28:57 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Roisin wrote:

> I have seen "daughter of" spelt "uerch", "verch" and "ferch". I don't
> know which is correct, but I do know that if a word were pronounced
> "verch" it'd be spelt "ferch".

The standard spelling in Welsh is "ferch", pronounced "verch" (where the
"ch" is roughly the same sound as in the Yiddish "chutzpah" or the German
"Bach").  The Welsh letter "f" is always pronounced "v".

Medieval scribes rendered "ferch" in many ways.  The sound "v" was often
written "u" by Latin-trained scribes, which produced the form "uerch".  The
final sound was sometimes rendered by the Old English letter that looks
like a long script Z (the name of which I can never remember), which
eventually led to the spelling "verz" and the scribal abbreviation "vz",
found in some 14th century records.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shoe Biz
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:54:04 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: home.merit.edu

Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:

> AtU> In the meantime, I'm going to events in New Balance Walkers.   I find
> AtU> moccasins to be unacceptible, if I'm going to buy 
> AtU> shoes especially for
> AtU> SCA, I wangt them to look right.   Now the question:

> AtU> Are there readily available mail-order sources for period footwear?
> I will look for the address for Medieval Moccasins, a group that sells 
> their wares at the Texas Renaissance Fair and Scarborough Faire here 
> in Texas.  Their shoes are not actually period, but perioid.  They 
> are loosely based on ghillies, the traditional and ancient shoe of 
> the Scots and Irish.  They do have a thick rubber sole, which makes 
> them more comfortable than, say, the Chinese "Mary Janes" that so many 
> of us wear.
>     Who knows, perhaps if enough of us send pictures, these folks might 
> actually make a real period shoe for us.......
>        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
>           Steppes, Ansteorra

> * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
 
I hope they might someday get a market going that allows them reasonable 
prices. While I can see paying $10-$20 per pair for their infant/toddler
size shoes, $50-100 per pair for adult simply is out of my range.
 
siobhan (whose 12 year old wears bigger shoes than she does) 
 
In-quote for those who know my family: "The shoemaker's sister-in-law goes
barefoot." ;-)
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke                Pat McGregor
       Shire Cynnabar, Middle Kingdom         3638 Greenook Blvd
                                              Ann Arbor, MI 48103-9143
       patmcg@merit.edu     
       smor@um.cc.umich.edu                   (313) 426-3506
       UserW02V@umichum.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Teaching v. Dancing (was: OOP Dance/fun period dances)
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:18:11 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Vashti of the Flaming Tresses writeth from her home in Ansteorra:
>  Here's my quesiton for you and the rest of the dance teachers on the Rialto:
> 
>  How do you handle teaching at revels?  Do you give in and do it?  DO
>  you have  deputies to take the unlearned to one side and instruct while
>  you run the  rest of them through the dance?  Or do you not teach at
>  all in the evening?

I am not a dance teacher.  Indeed, I am not a very good dance student.

However, here are two suggestions:

1) Teach the dances in the afternoon, and dance them in the evening.
   (This has been suggested by others.)

2) If there will be time for 15 dances, choose 12.  Choose 3 of those
   which are not well known in the area.  Teach them as the 4th, 8th,
   and 12th dances, and do not teach for any of the others.  Then,
   repeat these three dances as the final three.  This way, you have 15
   dances, but you only teach 3.  Somebody who knows nothing about
   dances and did not attend the dance class can still dance 6 dances
   (the same three, twice each).  Somebody who doesn't attend classes,
   but has come to a few previous dances will know some of the other
   dances, also.  Dancers who are bothered by the teaching can sit out
   for those three, but can dance the other 12.

I have not the experience to know whether this is reasonable.  Perhaps
those more knowledgeable than myself will see serious problems in it.
Perhaps the serious flaws will only be evident when it is tried.
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:38:11 -0500 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Grep'ing the Armorial

Hi folks!

Would someone be kind enough to point me in the direction of
the program someone wrote specifically to do grep-style searches
of the armorial-I think it was for MS-DOS machines.

Many thanks -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:28:38 GMT

Ellisif wrote:
  [Reasons why she wouldn't begin censoring newsletter announcements deleted]

  This isn't to say that I wouldn't call up Tibor and talk to him about it, 
  but I would *not* be able to pull the event announcement.  If his group 
  wants to look stupid in front of the whole kingdom, that's their business.  
  I can try to persuade, but I cannot censor.

All praises to Ellisif!  Gentles, there is a *VERY* wise woman.  *VERY*
wise.  Mistress Ellisif, may you live a thousand years!

	Tibor (does it show that I'm very impressed?)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: mfy@sli.COM (Mike Yoder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Hole in the Wall at EK Crown
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:36:20 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Good day, gentles, but especially to Jessa D'Avondale, who wrote:

>There are a couple of reasons I decided to include [HitW].  The musicians did
>request it; it's their "signature" piece.

I didn't realize this, and since I was one of the musicians, I want to disclaim
responsibility; I was a guest musician, not a regular member of the group.  I
would not bother to respond except that a great many people saw me among the
musicians and might infer from your statement that I actively promote the dance
also.

I am willing to play Hole in the Wall if requested, but I would never, ever ask
to play it.  I am a little bit sad that the group has chosen an out-of-period
piece as a signature, but that's their choice.  In time I think they will
change their minds.

    Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy%sli@uunet.uu.net]

The soul's Rialto hath its merchandise.
-- Elizabeth Barrett Browning, _Sonnets From the Portuguese_, sonnet XIX.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:42:41 GMT

Lord Elwyn wrote:
  As to the ease (or lack thereof) with which a group can get around the law
  requiring events, I admit it may be different where you are.  I was under the
  (possibly inaccurate) impression that events had to be published in Kingdom
  newsletters to count as "official" events on the Kingdom calendar.  It is
  quite possible that that is only Kingdom law, though, and not Society law, in
  which case your hypothetical situation might well be possible.

In order to be an event, it must be publicized to the membership of the
sponsoring branch, at a minimum.  For courts and other official business
to have import, the event must be publicized in the Kingdom Newsletter.

Some Kingdoms impose other restrictions.

So, now I step into my familiar role as quoter of Corpora:

  Corpora
    II.  SOCIETY EVENTS

      A. SOCIETY EVENTS DEFINED.  The term "Society event" refers to
      tournaments, feasts, and other activities whereby participants can
      display the results of their researches into period culture and
      technology in an environment which evokes the atmosphere of the
      Middle Ages and Renaissance.  It also refers to educational
      activities involving either one-time classes or ongoing university
      organizations, and meetings where participants share skills or
      discuss the business of the group. All Society events must be
      sponsored by branches of the Society, registered with the Seneschal
      of the sponsoring branch and publicized at least to the membership
      of that branch, and conducted according to Society rules.  

      B. BUSINESS REQUIRING PRIOR ANNOUNCEMENT.  Formal actions and
      announcements with long-term impact on the Society may occur only
      at Society events for which the date, time and place have been
      published in advance in the appropriate kingdom newsletter. This
      includes Crown and Coronet Lists, Coronations and Investitures,
      appointment of officers, presentation of awards and titles, and
      proclamation of law and of the establishment or advancement of
      branches.   However, deputy officers and officers below
      principality level need not be appointed at published events.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: OOP Dance/fun period dances
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 17:55:20

 Jessa (sorry, don't know your titles...), 
 Good lady, just wanted to say I enjoyed your reply to Master William de  Corbie and the Rialto on dance.  I agree most whoeheartedly that there are  plenty of fun, period dances out there (and so do my dancers).

 ...I gave in and let one of them teach StW one night (I left the room).  The  next week, I asked if they wanted to do it again, and prepared for my exit.   About half of them groaned and said, "Eeeewww, not that dance again -- it  wore me out!"  I was amused.....  They prefer Femayle Sailor if they want to  breathe hard, or a really long set of Half Hannigan. 

 Here's my quesiton for you and the rest of the dance teachers on the Rialto:

 How do you handle teaching at revels?  Do you give in and do it?  DO you have  deputies to take the unlearned to one side and instruct while you run the  rest of them through the dance?  Or do you not teach at all in the evening?

 I find myself of two minds on this.  First, I really would like everyone to  be able to join in the dancing.  And I understand that daytime classes aren't  workable for everyone -- if you had to work that afternoon on another part of  the event, or couldn't attend until evening, a day class won't help you.  If  your group has no trained dancers, or only has a small repetoire, then you'll  only get to dance at revels.  BUT:  Is it fair to ask the entire event to  come to a halt to teach a dance that most p






eople already know?  Just because  you or your girlfriend have never done it?   It takes up time, bores the  others there who want to go and dance, not wait 15 minutes between dances,  and leaves the dancing instructors hoarse at the end of the revel from  shouting over the noise of the crowd.

 Mistress Katrina of Iron Mountain says when she's in class, then she's a  dance teacher.  At revels, she'd rather be a gently born lady, married to a  knight, who is dancing with her friends for fun.  See the distinction?  I  agree with her, and yet I find myself either 1) leaving the event with no  voice and disgruntled because I had to teach the dances AGAIN or 2)leaving  the event knowing that I've been branded by some as a first class bitch  because I refused to teach dances and they had to drop out. 






 Anyone got a  solution that works?  Ansteorra doesn't dance as much as some of the other  kingdoms (I think it's because we camp instead of having indoor events, and  campfires are harder to dance around than feast tables.) so the level of  dance education isn't as high as some other areas.....but everyone knows Hole  in the Wall.  I think it's the National Dance of Ansteorra.

 -- may your toes never tire!

 - Vashti (I'll sleep when I finish dancing)


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 76206.2342@compuserve.COM (WILLIAM KYLE)
Subject: Archery Views
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:12:30 GMT

Greetings to all those gathered here.

It seems to me the question about the way Archery is perceived by many
gentles has many sides.  Those gentles who are offended by the fact
that Archery equipment we use is not "period" need to remember a few
items.

1. Most "period" longbows required a minimum of 100# pull because of
the materials used to make the bow and the string.  I only know of
myself and a few others here in the East, capable of pulling that much
poundage on a consistent basis.

2. The skill level needed to make such equipment requires more years of
practice and research than many would want to commit to.

3. The money required to purchase and import such equipment is more
than the average SCAdian can afford.

4. The fact that Archery is the only "martial skill" that allows "all"
gentles to be active in. (Not everyone wants to put on armour and hit
people with sticks)

As for the argument against rankings based on scores, this creates a
goal for gentles to strive for.  I have seen the amount of Archers
increase due to the fact that "Archery Rank" is an attainable goal for
"ALL" gentles.  I remember the day I witnessed an Archer receive a
"Master Bowman" ranking in court.  What made it special?  The archer
wasn't even 16 years of age at that time.

As for the argument about Longbow vs Recurve.  There is a different
slant which I firmly believe in.  The equipment is only as good as the
Archer who uses it.  I have seen several cases of individuals who have
very good equipment, but fail to use it properly.  I know of several
cases of very good Archers, of high ranking, who use "inferior" types
of bows at low poundages.  It is not the equipment, it is how you use
it, how much you practice with it, and how comfortable you are with it.
Given the use of both a Longbow and a Recurve of equal poundage, my
scores will stay consistent.  I use both as it is, and my score is
close.  At one event, I shot a 101 with my recurve on Saturday. On
Sunday I shot my Longbow, and scored a 98, and my longbow is 45# where
as my recurve is 65#. It is all in how much you use the equipment you
have.

Cahan Kyle, Order of the Sagittarius, GrandMaster Bowman
East Kingdom Archery Champions Team, Pennsics XIX & XX

======================================================================

Lord Cahan Kyle of Clan Kyle                  If it's on the plate
East Kingdom                                  it's food, if it moves
MCI Mail 418-0342                             off the plate, kill it
Compuserve 76206,2342                         and put it back on the
internet: 4180342@MCIMail.com                 plate
          76206.2342@compuserve.com
                                              Azure, two tusks, tips
Clan Kyle Motto: Bello et Pace Opera          crossed in saltire, Or

======================================================================
From: willektk@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Children in the SCA
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:12:43 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

> 	I think that kids add a lot to the authenticity, and the fun, of an
> event, if they are old enough to understand proper behaviour. Not necessarily
> old enough to behave the way an SCA adult would, i.e. in-period, in-persona,
> etc., but old enough to understand things like not running out onto a
> tourney field or dance floor, or not starting to talk in the middle of a

I don't know how your event was, but most events I've been to (except for large
camping events) have some form of child care (either there is once person in
charge of all the children or some other system) but yes, something is ussually
done so that the parents need not look after their children alll day.....
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Bjorn@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.ORG (Bjorn)
Subject: periodicity
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT

William de Corbie writes:

>But there are also OOP things that we do because we enjoy them
>better than their period counterparts, and because the differences
>between them and the authentic things are so small as to be
>imperceptible to anyone but an expert.
>
>  When I am driving and need to stay sober, I drink Coke at events;
>the period alternative would have been water, and that is less tasty.

Tio Alessandro Giordano d'Abaco replies:

JS> I think this fails the test of "imperceptible to anyone but an
JS> expert", especially when there are period alternatives (juices,
JS> perhaps?) to water.  You would be hard put even to justify carbonated
JS> drinks (despite the claims of, say, Perrier).  

How can you tell the difference between my carbonated dark beer (period) 
and Coke (OOP) without tasting it or putting you nose closer to my drink 
than is polite?  What someone else is drinking is not nearly as obtrusive 
as the wristwatch they are wearing.

Bjorn Bjorklund, Storvik, Atlantia, rbjorklund@argos.ims.disa.mil

 -- SPEED 1.00 [NR]: "What I forgot to take MY watch off?  Bad bear, bad..."