HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Rules of Golf vs the State of Oregon
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:20:07 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Sep10.160438.28741@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
>We had an interesting question about the rules last week at our US
>Mid-Amateur Qualifying at Pumpkin Ridge.  A number of holes on the course
>have environmentally sensitive wetlands bordering the holes.  The laws of
>the State of Oregon say that people are not allowed in these wetlands for
>any reason.  BUT, they are water hazards and the Rules of Golf say you can
>go into a water hazard and play the ball out.
>
>We were unsure of what to do.  The Executive Director of the Oregon Golf
>Association called the USGA and their initial statement was to mark them as
>out-of-bounds.
>
>I said that this would not solve the problem, because a player can still
>stand out of bounds and play a ball that is in bounds, which would be very
>likely to happen on a number of holes where the wetlands are on the side of
>the fairway.
>
>As it was, we marked them as water hazards and we had an official at each of
>the primary problem areas and while we didn't tell the player he couldn't go
>into the wetlands, we also pointed out the sign.  No player complained about
>it.  Fortunately no one was in a position of standing in the wetlands playing
>a ball that was through the green.
>
>How do you think this should be resolved?

That's easy.  Just put the out-of-bounds markers a few feet inside the
hazard so nobody will have to stand in the wetlands.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney)
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Organization: Loral WDL
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:52:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.230657.3591@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, un037002@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
> 
> 
> 	There are so many wide body drivers in the market nowadays. I was in a
> golf shop one day, saw more than ten kinds of such kind of drivers,
> Bridgestone Whopper, Judge, Hammer, Yamaha, 2001......, I just can't name them
> all. They all look nice, as the matter of fact Judge and Hammer with graphite
> shaft look real bad. There is no way I can try all these clubs out, but I
> really doubt if these flash looking sticks can put your balls a few yards
> farther than those traditional drivers like Wilson staff,Ping woods. 
> 	I don't think I want to spend $180 for something looks nice but don't
> hit that much better. I think there are so many after market gimmick clubs you
> just simply don't know which one is the real thing. I know a guy had a Big
> Bertha he couldnot hit it and threw it in a pond.
> 	If you have a big driver please share your expierences. I still haven't
> bought my new driver yet, I'd like to hear more before I put the money down.
>                           
> 
> 

I tried several types of drivers at the range.  I ended up purchasing the
Mid-Size Taylor Made driver 10.5 degrees loft.  This driver is a little more
conventional then say the "Big Bertha".  The biggest advantage of a larger 
driver is adding confidence to your golf swing.  By looking at the size of the
head you say to yourself, "there's no way I could miss hitting the ball."
You're able to concentrate more on your swing instead of "Hitting a little ball."
I've heard it said in several golf books and videos that you're not hitting a
ball, the ball gets in the way of your golf swing.

I'm able to make a big sholder turn, uncoiling my torso, and pulling my arms 
through the swing path with increased confidence.  The biggest golf confidence
builder is to start a par 4 or 5 hole with a long drive.

Sincerely,  Brad Loney


Made 


Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Reply-To: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 07:49:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.175436.16733@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, russb@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (russell.e.brodfuhrer) writes:
|> In article <1220037@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>, ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
|> > Here's a question that kept us going for a while in the pub last night.
|> > 
|> > "Your ball is in a puddle in a bunker.  How many options do you have, and what
|> > are they ?"
|> > 
|> > It'll be interesting to see how well people know this, especially as it's not
|> > an arcane rules corner-case, but a very common situation.
|> > 
|> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|> > Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
|> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|> 
|> 
|> You may:
|> 
|> 	drop within the confines of the bunker, not nearer the hole,
|> 	at a spot nearest to where the ball lay that affords maximum
|> 	relief from the puddle - no penalty.
|> 
|> 	- or -
|> 
|> 	drop outside the bunker, on a line from where the ball lay and
|> 	the hole - penalty of 1 stroke.
|> 
|> Russ Brodfuhrer

The second option looks a bit strange. If you are up against the edge of
the bunker and wants to take a panalty drop you must drop with one penalty
stroke IN the bunker. You can't drop out except if you replay the shot that
got you into the bunker. I think the same applies to casual water. If the
bunker is  all waterfilled you can't drop at all. This is from memory so 
please correct me if im wrong.

Gustaf
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:52:53 GMT

cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:


>Ron is getting almost as good as i am in finding arcane scenarios to
>push the limits of what the rules say.  I think his scenario is covered by
>decision 27/13 or decision 33-7/7.  27/13 covers when you think your
>opponent has dishonestly not identified his ball, and 33-7/7 covers
>two competitors conspiring to avoid a penalty.

Please quote the gist of those decisions at least.  I always assumed the basic
tenet of golf is that we are all gentlemen (or women) and would not attempt
to pull a fast one via the rules.

I had a situation last week:

                 _________                  __________
              |             |             |           |
              |             |             |           | x
              |             |             |           | x
              |             |             |           | x B
              |    Real     |             | Nursery   | x u
              |    Green    |             | Green     | x s
              |             |             |           | x h
              |             |             |           | x e
              |             |             |           | x s
              |             |             |           | x
              |             |             |           | x
                ___________                 __________

My ball stopped at the middle of the nursery green.  Reading my handy rulebook
I was able to determine that if it had been a practise or other putting green
I would have to drop the ball within one club length of the nearest point
of relief not nearer the hole.  Almost in the bushes.  Unfortunately I did
not have the interpretation handy as to whether a nursery green qualifies 
under this rule.  So I dutifully assumed the worst (would have played 2 balls
in tournament conditions) and dropped the ball as directed.  Had bushes in my
backswing and I was very happy to get the next shot all the way over the
nursery green to avoid having to pick it up again and repeat the operation.

*******************************************************************
*         Tim MacEachern         * Tim_MacEachern@hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
*     Software Kinetics Ltd.     *  or maceache@hawk.nstn.ns.ca   *
* Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada *                                *
*           Opinions expressed are the author's only              *
*******************************************************************
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 07:53:45 EDT
From: Jim White <JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers

>
>Path: maine.maine.edu!mars.caps.maine.edu!dartvax!bu.edu!rpi!
>
usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!cs.wvu.wvnet.edu!wvnvms.w
>vnet.edu!un037002
>From: un037002@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
>Subject: Wide-body drivers
>Message-ID: <1992Sep9.230657.3591@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>
>Date: 10 Sep 92 03:33:20 GMT
>Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing
>Lines: 15
>
>
>        There are so many wide body drivers in the market nowadays. I was in a
>golf shop one day, saw more than ten kinds of such kind of drivers,
>Bridgestone Whopper, Judge, Hammer, Yamaha, 2001......, I just can't name them
>all. They all look nice, as the matter of fact Judge and Hammer with graphite
>shaft look real bad. There is no way I can try all these clubs out, but I
>really doubt if these flash looking sticks can put your balls a few yards
>farther than those traditional drivers like Wilson staff,Ping woods.
>        I don't think I want to spend $180 for something looks nice but don't
>hit that much better. I think there are so many after market gimmick clubs you
>just simply don't know which one is the real thing. I know a guy had a Big
>Bertha he couldnot hit it and threw it in a pond.
>        If you have a big driver please share your expierences. I still haven't
>bought my new driver yet, I'd like to hear more before I put the money down.
>

The wide body driver may produce a longer drive, for the following reasons;

- They are reputed to have a wider sweet spot. This would tend to produce
  a more consistent, and possibly longer, AVERAGE drive.

- They tend to be very lightweight (though big) and come equiped with
  extra long Graphite/Titanium or Lightweight Steel shafts. This longer
  shaft would tend to provide for greater length, (you could accomplish
  the same thing at home by growing you arms an extra inch or two ;-) ).

I have hit a 'Judge' a few times. This particular one had a Regular flex
1" xtra length TI shaft. I must admit that , when I didn't try to overpower
the whippy shaft, I did hit some long balls. However, I decided that, at my
golf course, that simply wasn't that important and might be detrimental.
I sometimes hit a 3 wood off the tee anyway, in order to (attempt) to stay
in the 'short grass'.

Also, $200.00 + is alot of money to invest in one club. i don't think it
can ever be justified. Better to spend $100.00 on the Driver and $100.00+
on Lessons and Range balls. As one other respondee noted, there are some
excellent 'knockoffs' out there for a fraction of the cost of the original.
Unless your really rich, a purist, or just plain numb, these'll suit just as
well.


Jim White
From: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rule that I'd like to see changed
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:58:18 GMT
Reply-To: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Organization: Henry's Laughing Gas Co., Inc.

In article <1992Sep9.112811@screwdriver.Prime.COM> lekberg@screwdriver.Prime.COM (Paul Lekberg) writes:
>To avoid this one shot penalty, I will never ground
>my club in the rough upon address if I believe the
>ball may move.  However, this is one of those rules
>that I'd like to see changed.   Any comments or other
>rules that you'd like to see changed?

As mentioned by many great golfers, the double-hit rule sucks.  You're
already penalized if your club hits the ball twice.  Why make an additional
penalty?  

-pet-
--
Michael A. Petonic	       petonic@hal.com		       +1-512-794-2855
        HaL Computer Systems International, Ltd. -- A Bermuda Corporation
                Director of Custodial Services and Entertainment
				 Austin, Texas
                          "No balls, no blue chip."
From: sdberg@nv2.uswnvg.com (Scott Berg)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:08:42 GMT
Organization: US West NewVector, Inc., Bellevue, WA

I must recommend the Taylor Made System 2 Mid-Size with a graphite shaft.  I
purchased mine this summer and now hit the ball about 45 yards further
(around 300yds) and hit my own :) fairway about 65% of the time (used to be
about 45%).  Now if I could only figure out a way to use it for my short
game!

Scott Berg

/*If I'm going to hit that ball, I'm going to have to get mad with it!*/

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: manningk@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Kent B Manning)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Handicap Software?
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:08:21 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Anyone know where I might find software for calculating
one's handicap? Commercial or shareware would be fine.

Thanks in advance
 
Kent

p.s. almost forgot, for MSDOS format please :)
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: The Rules of Golf vs the State of Oregon
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:04:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Sep10.160438.28741
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

We had an interesting question about the rules last week at our US
Mid-Amateur Qualifying at Pumpkin Ridge.  A number of holes on the course
have environmentally sensitive wetlands bordering the holes.  The laws of
the State of Oregon say that people are not allowed in these wetlands for
any reason.  BUT, they are water hazards and the Rules of Golf say you can
go into a water hazard and play the ball out.

We were unsure of what to do.  The Executive Director of the Oregon Golf
Association called the USGA and their initial statement was to mark them as
out-of-bounds.

I said that this would not solve the problem, because a player can still
stand out of bounds and play a ball that is in bounds, which would be very
likely to happen on a number of holes where the wetlands are on the side of
the fairway.

As it was, we marked them as water hazards and we had an official at each of
the primary problem areas and while we didn't tell the player he couldn't go
into the wetlands, we also pointed out the sign.  No player complained about
it.  Fortunately no one was in a position of standing in the wetlands playing
a ball that was through the green.

How do you think this should be resolved?

I think that it should be resolved by saying that you should just live by
the law and tell people that if their ball is in the hazard they may not
use the option that allows them to play it from the hazard and if they would
have to stand in the hazard to play their shot, they must either play it
without standing in the hazard or take an unplayable lie.  In other words,
you play this just like you would play a lake with a 20 foot drop-off at
the edge of the water.


John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Date: 10 Sep 92 09:32:50 GMT
Reply-To: olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius)

In article <1992Sep9.230657.3591@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>,
un037002@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
# 
# 	There are so many wide body drivers in the market nowadays. I was in a
# golf shop one day, saw more than ten kinds of such kind of drivers,
# Bridgestone Whopper, Judge, Hammer, Yamaha, 2001......, I just can't
name them
# all. They all look nice, as the matter of fact Judge and Hammer with graphite
# shaft look real bad. There is no way I can try all these clubs out, but I
# really doubt if these flash looking sticks can put your balls a few yards
# farther than those traditional drivers like Wilson staff,Ping woods. 
# 	I don't think I want to spend $180 for something looks nice but don't
# hit that much better. I think there are so many after market gimmick
clubs you
# just simply don't know which one is the real thing. I know a guy had a Big
# Bertha he couldnot hit it and threw it in a pond.
# 	If you have a big driver please share your expierences. I still haven't
# bought my new driver yet, I'd like to hear more before I put the money down.
#                           

 I just bought an oversized driver, after having played standard Taylor Made 
 metal woods for a couple of years. Since my swing tends to get a bit violent
 when I'm wielding a Driver I really appreciate the considerably larger
 sweet spot my 'Big Bomber' (...) offers me. It's hard to tell any difference
 in the maximum distance I get, but the average distance has certainly
increased.

 Another, somewhat surprising, advantage is that it is in fact _easier_ to hit
 a Big Bertha clone from off the fairway, which can be useful on extremely wide
 holes when playing into the wind.
 
Olof Daunius
 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Correcting HOGWASH
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:57:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep14.210119.9428@colorado.edu> cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:

>In stroke play, if one observes a rule about to be broken, one
>can do (legally) one of two things:
>a) one can inform the person about to break the rule of the potential
>   infraction.  This is NOT giving advice, but is "INFORMATION ON THE
>   RULES" as permitted in rule 8.
>b) one can elect to allow the rule to be broken, and then invoke the
>appropriate penalty.

And as Tom Watson says in his book on rules, option b) is very poor
etiquette and ought to be used only by players wearing Raiders tank
tops and sucking on a can of Pabst.  On the other hand, such players
probably think that rules are for wimps anyway...
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: eseeger@ssdc.UUCP (Eric Seeger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Pebble Beach opening
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:10:53 GMT
Organization: Sterling Software IMD, Vienna, Va.

Fellow golfers,

I know I might just be barking up a tree, but I have to ask anyway. Are
there any groups of golfers that may have an opening at Pebble Beach
and interested in one 'golf whore' to fill the spot.  I am going to 
be in San Francisco on business from Wed. Sept 16th to Friday Sept 18th.
But, I am going to fly out on Sunday evening with clubs in hand to play
some of your beautiful coarses in the Monteray area.  So, if there
is anyone out there who may have an opening on Monday or Tuesday the 
14th or 15th you will have made one golfer quite happy.  BTW, I am 
an 8 handicap, which probably won't hold up on that coarse.

Thanks....
-- 
Eric J. Seeger				Phone:	(703)356-3551
8000 Towers Crescent Dr.		 UUCP:	uunet!ssdc!eseeger
Vienna, VA. 22182			 MAIL:  eseeger@ssdc.sterling.com
				   FAX:  (703)821-1485
From: brickle@idacrd.UUCP (Frank Brickle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:11:48 GMT
Organization: idacrd, princeton, nj

From article <1992Sep9.230657.3591@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, by un037002@wvnvms.wvnet.edu:
> ... I know a guy had a Big
> Bertha he couldnot hit it and threw it in a pond.
> 	If you have a big driver please share your expierences. I still haven't
> bought my new driver yet, I'd like to hear more before I put the money down.
>                           

About a year ago I got a Big Bertha driver (11 degrees, regular flex steel)
as an unsolicited present. At the time I was using a Taylor graphite
(9.5 degrees, regular flex). I took the Bertha out to the range and
hit about 30 balls with it, just to see whether I liked it. Now -- and
this is really no exaggeration at all -- the *worst* shot with the Bertha
was about 5 yards longer than my *best* with the Taylor, and quite a bit
more accurate as well, although that's hard to quantify. About a month
later I bought the 3 and 5 woods to go along with the driver.

I think the real point about oversized woods is that they minimize the
variance on your shots. Good shots aren't really much better, but
marginal shots are a whole lot better. And of course the tee ball is
one place where this is really important.

Altogether the Berthas are the first set of woods I've ever been completely
happy with, in -- let's see, 1964 to 1992... -- 28 years of playing golf.
From: twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rules question
Summary: O. B.
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:26:51 GMT
Reply-To: twete@tweety.wr.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>>Here is a situation that happened to me ealier today. I am playing a
>>par 4 with O.B. to the left. I am left handed and I tend to slice.  My
>>second shot takes off like a rocket, takes a hard left turn, hits and
>>sticks in the fence.  The fence marks the O.B. line. There are no white
>>markers and the card notes that the fence is O. B. The ball is found
>>and identified as mine.
>>
>>Question #1:
>>Is the ball O.B.?
>>
>>Question #2:
>>If the ball is not O.B. what can I do?
>>
>>I did hit a provisional, played the provisional and took a *.

Follow up on my origonal post:

Thanks for the help. I am pretty sure I got the correct answer. I actually
simplified this a bit. The ball was found after I had declared the ball
lost. So I was stuck with a lost ball pentalty anyway. I just wanted to
know what I should do if I had found the ball first. 


RT
--------------------------------------------------
Bob Twete                    - twete@tweety.WR.TEK.COM
Prism Engineering            - 503-629-3147
Tektronix, Inc.              - Beaverton, OR
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf