From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: U.Zero (was: Re: Who is 'Progressive' in the 90s)
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:56:59 GMT

ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ( Peter The Lighthouse Keeper ) writes:

>What is it with these guys. This is not the first rave review i've read
>about their stuff, but IMHO it sounds a lot like some boring grade-B
>soundtrack music; I even believed one of these reviews and went and

Oh well, most of the reviews I've seen on the net warned people with big 
disclaimers that this stuff is weird and out there, and I didn't bother 
yesterday because I thought most of you probably already heard that before. 
Plus I'm always wary of buying anything based on reviews unless I really 
know the tastes of the reviewer. I'm the same way about movie reviews. I 
always figured that most people approach reviews with a similar discretion.  
Djam Karet is one of the few things I've bought without hearing any and out
of curiousity from so many rave reviews. And I was pretty disappointed with
them, they just don't engage me as much as I expected and I don't find them
ivery unique. 

>you talk about a rock
>context (???) I look at the credits on the album sleeves and I see guitar,
>bass and drums, along with the violas and bassoons and other etcetera,
>but I don't hear ANY rock context in there anywhere, this is definitely
>NOT rock... 

I guess I have a broader idea of what is rock than you, which doesn't surprise
me because my interpretation is pretty liberal and would lump almost all pop
music into rock too. In this case I would argue that the drums and guitar are
what makes this not fit in a classical context and what makes it fit more into
the rock genre. Maybe that's a flimsy argument, but I see more connection to
Crimson, Henry Cow and Magma than I do to any classical music I'm familiar 
with. If anyone has any pointers to some decent classical music that is 
anywhere close to Univers Zero please let me know. I've been given pointers
to Bartok before but never heard anything that was anywhere close.

>Furthermore, I think these guys
>go out of their way to make every aspect of their music as unpleasant
>as possible.I don't think you can fairly mention these guys in the same
>breath as King Crimson. Yes, Crimson did get out there at times but they
>were always rooted in some semblance of substantive rock based music.

Gee, for me it seems that Crimson's dissonance is what set the path for me
to open up to liking Henry Cow and eventually Univers Zero. Stuff like Lark's 
Tongue in Aspic, Red, Starless, and even the noisy jams in the 69 Plumpton 
concert (I think this part didn't make it onto the Box Set live disc, but 
Fripp does a noisy guitar solo there than even Fred Frith would probably have 
been stunned by.) I think this stuff explores an area Fripp might if he were
to take a step closer to classical music.  

>UZ are just plain out there....or is there something I'm not hearing!

I don't know what I hear that you don't... it took me close to 10 years from
first hearing UZ until my ears felt inclined to digest the stuff. I taped some
stuff from a friend who raved about it and it didn't do much for me. Over 
repeated listenings it grew on me more and more and so by the time I started
seeing their releases re-issued on cd I was ready to by them all. So perhaps
it's an aquired taste... I guess the "out there" part is probably what I like
that you didn't. I like dissonant and atonal music. And I blame that mostly
on Fripp!   

>Furthermore, according to Wayside, these guys are history: "Heatwave"
>was their last, now leader Daniel Denis is doing his solo gig.

Oh well. Denis' solo release is ok, but not quite up to par with the Present
or Univers Zero releases in my opinion.  

>While we're talking about this dark-industro-progressive stuff, you might
>be interested in a band from Canada called MIROIDOR, and also a band from
>Kentucky (I Think) called FRENCH TV. Both of these, while out there, are
>still very substantive and not as intentfully amelodic (as UZ), and seem
>to draw some influence from the classic french fusion band MAGMA.

So you like Magma and Miroider (sp?) but not Univers Zero? Hmmm, I'd give
them another chance... IMHO Magma reaches some great peaks but overall their
releases are uneven and somewhat less dynamic than Univers Zero. Maybe UZ will
grow on you a bit more. If not I'm sure you could probably sell the discs
to someone who might appreciate them a bit more.

 - malcolm@wrs.com