HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:48:52 GMT
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Lethbridge


> In rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:

>In short, this is how you should reply to (me, for example) when you disagree:
>No, Rob, you're wrong because your argument [such-and-such] flaws.

This is not funny.

>Not:
>What? Were you beaten senseless as a child and never recovered?

This is.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

  Chris:   I'm really going to look after this ant, mum.
  Mother:  That's what you said about the sperm whale.
  Chris:   Well, you didn't feed it properly.
  Mother:  Where am I going to get 44 tons of plankton every day?!?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: Ripken's Season
Organization: Jays Fans Exuding Guarded Optimism, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:33:52 GMT


In article <1992Sep14.203734.28368@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
>The problem with Ripken is that the manager doesn't really have the
>ability to take him out, because of "The Streak^{TM}" Also, Ripken
>didn't start badly, it's been his last 70 or so games where he has
>been playing horribly.  My guess is that Ripken hasn't admitted to 
>himself that the he is putting his own numbers ahead of the team.

I've always wondered:  why doesn't the Orioles manager "rest" Ripken by
using him as a pinch-hitter, or by using him (briefly) as a defensive
replacement?  (I believe Gehrig was "rested" in this way, so there's
historical precedent.)  That way you get the best of both worlds.

--Dave "climbing onto the nickname bandwagon" Till
e-mail path:  dave@silver.sni.ca (or try dave@snitor.uucp
or dwtill@watyew.waterloo.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: O1DOUG@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Doug Miller)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:29:31 GMT

  Amazing....Eddie Stankey in 1950 had 158 hits and 144 walks but he batted
an even .300. Does anybody have hbp stats on Jimmy Sheckard in 1911. He may
hold the record for lowest BA. and having reached base 300 times... .276.
Must have had a damn good eye for the strike zone. Did Ron Hunt ever get
hit by a pitch 300 times in a season, hardy har har.
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Top 10 Commissioner Candidates
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 22:25:01 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep9.192213.4368@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:
>
>From Knight-Ridder Tribune news service columnist Dan Le Barard comes a list
>of the top ten candidates to replace Vincent:
>
> 2. Meat Loaf-we like having an excuse to put his name in the sports pages.

Sorry.  Meat Loaf is just too darn baseball-literate for the owners' tastes.

Nine teams in leagues set up by the Prodigy service, five of which are in first
place.  He recommends Cal Eldred for a fantasy league pickup.  "I think he's
going to be a good one," says the singer-actor.  Another reason not to select
Mr. Loaf as commissioner: note usage of the word "think" in above quote.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) *  kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
Keeper of the R.S.BB FAQ, and Junior Stathead {tm} * OK, so I AM the AntiChrist.
Be kind...don't disillusion the RBI-lovers. * Net.Agent, "Doublin" David Rossing
Less widely published as Noel Steere; less likely to rampage than Gary Huckabay.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: More about Sanders/Alou/Karros
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:39:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.003545.19604@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>This is what I get for the three of them, then, using my method:
>
>Sanders:	value as CF:	1.04
>		value as LF:	0.48
>		total:		1.52
>
>Karros:		value as 1B:	0.48
>		total:		0.48
>
>Alou:		value as LF:	0.97
>		value as RF:	0.11
>		value as CF:	0.04
>		total:		1.12
>
>I rest my case for the moment, but reserve the right to cross-examine any
>witnesses. :-)
>
Good Numbers!  I'm impressed!
Just a minor question, though.  What the hell do they mean?
Is low "good"?
Is this a logarithmic scale?
What is average?
Who has the highest numbers?
The lowest?
In short, (and to reiterate), what the hell do these numbers mean?

Thanks,

RStimets

(Begin cross-examination)


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:37:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.154935.16353@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
>In article <5580@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>> 
>> Here are, as best I can find them, the all-time records for career times
>> reaching base (H+BB+HBP), and times reaching base per game (among players
>> with at least 3000 times reaching base).
>> 
>
>If you include HBP, then why don't you include reaching on errors and reaching on a fielder's
>choice?  They include the same amount of skill (none).

HBP is officially a component of OBP, and is therefore reasonable to
include.  Actually, I would include reaching on errors too.  But for
some strange reason, nobody bothers to count that.  A pity, as it
would show one reason why speed is valuable.  Not only are fast
players more likely to reach on a bobbled ball, but infielders play
shallower, have less reaction time, and so are more likely to bobble
the ball in the first place!

Reaching on a fielder's choice hurts the team, and so should
definitely not be included.

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan)
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:42:04 GMT

rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:

>...Just got done reading some post by GH directed at someone else (I forget)
>which I wanted to respond to but my computer fouled up.

>If you guys want to spend the day insulting each other then do it on
>alt.argument.insult or some other fine group, but don't make everyone
>else read your SHIT.

>GH finishes by telling his combatant that he should "kill" Mr.Huckaby.
>Maybe I should put both of these guys in my kill file (but why should
>I have to?)

>RStimets

I agree with a lot of this.  Mr. Huckabay has done worse, though.  I
remember the time that he changed his name file to my name.
In short, he used my name to post annoying articles telling everyone
to go to **** ,etc.  This damaged my reputation unfairly.
If you've got a problem - I suggest mailing the root@madrone.ucdavis
or something like that.  He's the source of a lot of name-calling around
this network.

-- 
Gary Blickhan   "Urgent baseball news- In a risky deal, the Angels sent pitcher
Dean Chance to the Phillies for outfielder Oscar Gamble. Also, a three-way deal
sent infielder Dave Cash to Detroit, slugger Norm Cash and backup Ron Cash to
Milwaukee, and infielder Don Money to Pittsburgh. Detroit made a profit."
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:43:49 -0400 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Bucs call ups

Kevin Young, Albert Martin, William Pennyfeather, and Tom Prince were called
up now that Buffalo's season is over.  Why wasn;t Bret Backlund called
up?  The reason must be that he would then become eligible for the
expansion
draft.  I think that the Pirates are going to lose someone in the draft.
Maybe not as bad as Cleveleand, Montreal or Atlanta, but it seems like the
Pirates all of a sudden have some prospects.

I really have a bad feeling when any of the following pitchers are in the game:

Mason, Cox, Patterson.

That is half the bullpen.  In all honesty, no one in the bullpen gives
me confidence.  They have given up a ton of late inning home runs lately.
From: matlick@rec/sport/baseballps.msu.edu (Jeffrey S Matlick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Micro Sports Inc
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:33:20 GMT
Reply-To: matlick@cps.msu.edu (Jeffrey S Matlick)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: matlick@cpss11.cps.msu.edu



Anyone have any info of Micro Sports Inc new baseball sim?  Thanks!

		Jeff

email: matlick@cpsin3.cps.msu.edu
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cal Eldred, ROY candidate?!
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:03:13 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Sep10.225347.28929@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>
>   Has anyone else thought of this? What about rookie pitcher of the year?
>   I thought Fleming would be a shoo-in, but when you look at the stats you
>   have to think of Eldred.
>
>   Fleming is 15-8 with about a 3.30 ERA (?) and Eldred is 7-1 with a 1.30
>   ERA. What if Fleming end up about 16-10 with a mid-3 ERA, while Eldred
>   is 10-2 with a mid-1 ERA? And what influence will it have if the Brewers
>   stay in the division race til the end with Eldred getting a couple big
>   wins?
>
>   Although I still think Fleming deserves it (ROY for pitchers, Listach is
>   the ROY in a landslide), Eldred has come out of nowhere to make it       
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually, Peter Gammons has been harping Cal Eldred since early in the
season.  Chalk one up for the chinless wonder....

pgw




>   interesting. Especially if he keeps up his excellent pitching and Fleming
>   falters a little.
>
>   So what does everyone think?
>
>   --salty
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:23:06 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <BuE2v4.7s5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan) writes:
>All of these responders forget the claims that Gonzalez will hit 50+ HRs
>for about 7 straight years and even hit 60 Hrs in a season.
>
>Seems a LOT easier to walk 100 times than hit 60 HRs .
>
>Just ask ALL those ACTIVE players with 60 Hrs in a season:

>Or maybe those players in the HISTORY of the game who did it:
>
>Babe Ruth
>Roger Maris
>
>Question: Why do I get 10 posts about 100 walks and 
>	  only 1 person (me) questions 60 HRs in a season?

This is irrelevant.  It might be *easier* to walk 100 times than to get 60 HRs,
but for Gonzalez, that is not the case.  For example, there are certainly more
7-foot-high people in the United States than there are Computer Science/History
double majors.  But although there is a bigger chance of any given
person in the United States being 7-foot-high than being a Computer Science/
History double major, for me, there is no chance that I will be 7-foot-high
:-), and I am a CS/History double.  This is the same case for Gonzalez.  It's
not that it's harder to walk 100 times than to hit 60 HRs; it's that Gonzalez
will *not* walk 100 times.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:42:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.151828.2399@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>Then plug in Phillips (or next year, Trammmell) in to either the SS (in 
>Fryman's case) or 1B (in Fielder's case). Trammell has been a little better
>offensive player than Fryman, worse than Cecil. Looks to me like the Tigers' 
>O would suffer more if they lose Fielder.

Hmmm.  You accuse me of having a fascination with part-timers, and then turn
around and use stats that are with *really* small samples?

I don't think it is reasonable to assume that Trammell will post a .370 OBP
and .392 SLG for the entire season, given that in '91 he posted .320 OBP and
.373 SLG.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu)
Subject: Jays...Alomar said he's being glared
Organization: Public Access UNIX Information System
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:24:08 GMT


Roberto Alomar said he is upset that someone in the dugout glared at him
after his at-bats.  How dare this person.  Does anyone know who is person is?

-- 
       ||/|/|/|
       |      |    If it's there and you can see it       -- it's real
       |      |    If it's not there and you can see it   -- it's virtual
       | (o)(o)    If it's there and you can't see it     -- it's transparent
From: desmondw@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Did the O's win yesterday?
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:17:55 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA


 Did the orioles win last night? I missed the game and the papers don't
have the score.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: Bush for Commissioner
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:25:29 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

With his numerous skills he could sell arms Iraq in order to
raise money to get termites for the Cuban team's bats.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Juan Gonzales (40+ homers before age 23)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 03:23:35 GMT

In <9209120620.AA24310@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> C Robert Claydon <cclaydon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:

>Interesting note on the whole Juan Gonzales being "the next Babe Ruth"...

>A UPI report listed the other players who have hit 40+ homers before turning 
>23, and while there are some impressive players, I don't think any are in the 
>top five of all-time home runs.  From memory, they are:

>Eddie Matthews (twice), Joe Dimaggio, Johnny Bench and one other (sorry, I 
>forget! :-)

>Anyway, while Matthews topped 500 HR, and Bench petered out largely because of 
>the wear and tear of catching, I don't think you could say any of these guys 
>were a serious threat to pass 700 (or even 600) HR lifetime...

well hank aaron hit 44 the year he turned 23 so if gonzales can't be the
next "Babe Ruth" perhaps he could become the next "Hank Aaron" :-)

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update (was Re: Clemens update please)
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:48:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.071433.17368@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton) writes:
> Valentine writes:

[deleted]

> Another "bug" (if you want to call it that -- I probably wouldn't),
> and one that probably has a far greater effect than the one above,
> is that SNWL doesn't reflect the way that starters are used by 
> managers.  Most starters, and nearly all staff aces, will be used
> in a way that will tend to increase the number of decisions they
> get.  They'll be left in in close games, and pulled early in blowouts.

I disagree.  I've seen far too many managers (particularly those who manage
the Rocket) who seem to follow the principle of "Well, gee.  I know he was
getting hammered, but he's my ace, so if he can't get them out, no one can."
In every one of the games I remember where Clemens gave up 9+ runs, it was
obvious in the first inning or two that he either had nothing or had something
wrong with him.  This didn't stop his manager from leaving him in for 6 or more
innings.  This was especially annoying when a typical runs/innings line would
look like this:

 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9
 1  0  2  0  2  4  x  x  x

> This helps explain why Clemens has only 3 no-decisions this year, and

How so?  Clemens has 3 no decisions this year because he left in the 8th or
9th inning with a lead which was flushed by Meatball Reardon.

> it helps explain why most of the top starters in the league have
> 1 or 2 more decisions in their actual W-L record than in their SNW-L
> record.  So, given this kind of strategy used by managers, the
> 21-7 record you suggest Clemens might have in a perfect world could
> be about right.  But, you have to remember that, in this perfect 
> world, Appier would be about 19-7, Mussina about 18-7, Guzman about
> 15-5, and McDowell about 19-9.  If SNWL is underestimating Clemens'
> wins, it's underestimating everybody's.
> 

[more deletions]

> 
> -Michael
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
> mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Cubs' Mike Harkey hurt
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:36:32 GMT

In article 10124@news.iastate.edu, twap8@isuvax.iastate.edu (Mike McNarney) writes:
>Cubs announcer Thom Brenneman said in today's (Sun) radio pregame that
>pitcher Mike Harkey fell down the dugout stairs before today's game
>and blew out the tendon in his left knee. He has been transported
>to Northwestern Memorial Hospital for treatment. The announcers had
>no further information, only pointing out that Harkey seems to be
>injured all the time. 

The latest word was that Harkey blew out his knee trying to do a cartwheel
for the fans before that game. Ouch!

Meanwhile, Shawn Boskie is being called on to fill Harkey's spot in the
rotation, and Rey Sanchez may be shelved for the rest of the season if the
bulging disc in his back doesn't get better very soon. 

And we're 9.5 out w/ 26 games to play. Do you believe in miracles?



******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  Wait until next year --
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |         AGAIN!!!
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  "You got a problem
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |   with that?" 
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |   -- Roger Clemens
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cubs Make-Up Game Scheduled?
From: bentzr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard S. Bentz)
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:03:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona


Through 9/3/92, the Cubs have played 132 games.  The published schedule
shows that there are only 29 more games, i.e., 4 3-game and 2 2-game
series at home, and 3 3-game and 2 2-game series away.  Following the
3-game San Diego series (at home), the Cubs finish the season playing
home and away series with each of their eastern division opponents.
This only adds up to 161 games (132 + 29).

I presume that the missing game was postponed due to inclement weather. 
Is it against a divisional opponent?  If so, when is the double-header
going to be played?

If it's against a team from the western division, then they would
undoubtedly play the game on Monday, 10/5/92, but only if it could
affect the determination of the divisional winner(s).

What's the scoop?

Rick
-- 
Richard S. Bentz        AG Communication Systems        Phoenix, Arizona
UUCP:  ncar!noao!enuucp!gtephx!bentzr            VOICE:  +1 602 582 7090
INET:  gtephx!bentzr@enuucp.eas.asu.edu            FAX:  +1 602 581 4022
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:21:56 GMT
Subject: Atlanta Hotels?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

I will be stopping in Atlanta at the end of the month, and have tickets to
games on the 29th and 30th.  I was hoping there would be some hotel that caters
to the baseball fan, running a shuttle to the airport and to the stadium, so I
don't have to rent a car, take a cab, or figure out the public transportation
system.  Any suggestions?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary At Least We Still Have Rickey Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 5 Sep 92 17:52:57 GMT
Organization: Kevlar Bleacher Concessions, Ltd. (Arlington Branch)

(Tim "That's MISTER Bozo to you!  I'm a math major!" Ringwood) writes:
>Which means that Jose gets out 63% of the time, and Cecil 61% of the time.
>Sounds "much better" to me.  Cecil's worth can't be measure by stats. 

And everyone else's can, right?  What total, unmitigated garbage.  I
don't know about everyone else, but to me, you sound like a fellow
Political Science person.  (I can't think of a better insult.)

>Yes
>this season is not as good as the last couple, but he's a smart hitter and
>does what needs to be done at the plate. 

Like not starting rallies, for example?  Cecil is a one dimensional
slugger.  That's certainly not valueless, but you and he can both kiss
my Blarney Stone if either of you think he's anything close to the
league MVP.  Anything Cecil can do, we can find someone else who does
it better, with the possible exception of Cartering.  (see r.s.b.
glossary for details - but it has something to do with getting lots of
RBI opps.)

>Jose plays for Jose, and has
>since I saw him in A ball. Cecil plays for the Tigers, and sometimes his
>stats suffer for it. 

Cry me a river.  How do you know Jose's, or Cecil's motivations?  In
addition to being a math major (cure ominous chords), are you psychic
as well?  Wanna be my stockbroker?

> He'll hit the ball to the right side with no outs with a man on second in a 
>close game. This counts against him by all the stats you guys have, but it is 
>good baseball.

In a tie game, he'll not get on base as much as Jose.  When are people
going to realize that Cecil was fabulous in 1990, average in 1991, and
mediocre in 1992?  Deal with it.  Move on.

Even if RBIs were the end all and be all of stats, Cecil might still
be human flotsam when you factor in his 'defense.'

>Hell I have a math major, know stats theory okay, and I have come to believe
>that stats and baseball go together like George Bush and Hillary Clinton.

George Bush should be so lucky.  He wouldn't know what to do with a
woman who dared think on her own.  I was undecided about who to vote
for in the Nov. election until hearing Pat Buchanan speak at the RNC,
and seeing Paul Galvanek's .signature here.  I can't support a party
which is supported by so many misogynists.

And whether or not you have a math major, or know stats theory okay
has little to do with whether or not you can critically think.  Hate
to break it to you.


-- 
*   Gary Huckabay   * 'And I remember the day when I saw the mask on my *
* "Favorite Player: *  face.  And I knew that it was time to put the    *
*     Gord 'OBP'    *  thing in its place.' - S. Alderson.              *
*      Niguma."     * 'This is WORSE than acquiring Lansford.' - GH.    *