HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: What is a household? (was Re: Feet Voting)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 15:02:13 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!

I wrote:


> ...a household is just a bunch of people who want to play together.  If
> you are part of a group of people who hang out together, go to events
> together, work and play together, what is that but a household?

Tadhg answered:

>  A group of people who hang out together are not necessarily a household; a
>  household is a group of people who hang out together and who have decided
>  to formalize their relationship by forming a household, typically by
>  picking a name and sometimes even by registering it (and badge).

My point was that it is just a matter of definition; Fiacha's original
posting implied to me (though he may not have intended it) a belief that
"household" means "a group of people come together for political reasons to
fight against another faction."  I gave my definition; you've given
another.  None of them is inherently better than any other, though I will
grant you, Tadhg, that some decision to formalize the relationship is
probably a good part of a definition.  However, I would definitely include
a knight, his squires, his lady, aher apprentices (or whatever), and their
children in my definition of a household: It is Sir Peter and Mistress
Anne's household.  The fact that they don't bother to pick some silly name
for it (and most SCA household names are decidedly silly) doesn't change
its nature.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: kballar@triton.unm.edu (Kathryn Ballard CIRT)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Outlands' Crown
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:17:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.8ldpl6n
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

The victor of the Outlands' Crown held Oct 3rd is Jarl Olaf Bjornsson. The	Countess Jeanne d'Aussey was his consort.  Coronation is November 7 in the	Citadel of the Southern Pass (El Paso, Texas).					 										I have the results of the rounds and pairings if anyone is curious.		 										Kathryn of Iveragh (kballar@triton.unm.edu or kballar@unmvma.bitnet)
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Changing babies....
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:14:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Bertram asks,

>So -- how do you _change_ babies in swaddling bands... ?

_Change_ babies????  Bertram -- aren't you happy with the one you have????

-- Angharad/Terry
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:38:59 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Historical Survey Question

Greetings, friends --

I remember the first mailing/questionnaire the BoD sent to
the entire populace.  We'd just finished editing TI when it
was sent out and while I can't tell you what the response rate
was, I _can_ tell you that the Society's membership at the time
was a bit over 8,000 people.  A vague memory says the return rate
was in double digits and less than 20%, but I'm not sure.

So, what does the week-dressed 3-week-old wear to her first event?

Many thanks -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Citrons (was Re: Linen and wool)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:08:26 GMT


I had said:

>>All the Orthodox Jews in your town have to go out in the days after Yom
>>Kippur (which is next Wednesday) and buy, among other expensive supplies,
>>a citron.  ....

Dorothea asked:

>And then what do they do with them?

You hold the citron together with a bundle which includes a palm stalk, two
willow switches, and three myrtle twigs.  Every morning of the holiday of
Sukkot (the Holiday of Living Outside in Huts) except Saturday you make a
blessing and give them a shake.  During morning prayers there's one part
where Ashkenazic Jews shake the bundle (called a "lulav" after the palm
stalk, and "etrog" which means citron) while singing psalms, and Sephardic
Jews gesture with it as though it were a rifle with a bayonet.

Sukkot (which may be the first recorded historical re-creation) is a reminder
of living in the wilderness in huts during the escape from Egypt.  When the
holiday is over (it culminates in the slightly drunken celebration of the
end of the annual cycle of reading the Torah), the citron is either kept wrapped
in tow until it dries out, and is then used as part of a potpourri; or it is
combined with citrons collected from one's neighbours and turned into 
marmalade.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Re:One Oh
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 22:29:55 GMT

I'll sing you Ten, oh
Green grow the rushes, oh!
What is your Ten, oh?
Ten for the Annivers'ry
Nine for the Nine Exemplars; and
Eight for the noble motives
Seven for the Seven raised up on high; and
Six for the Six proud Servants
Five for the Symbol that's a chore; and
Four for the Picture Makers
Three, Three, the Pillars
Two, Two, the genders true
Clothed all in rules-o
One is the forum all alone
That's known as the Rialt-o!

(I'd be happier to have nailed ten more specifically, but it'll
have to do. Oh, well, on the home stretch now)
(verse eleven tomorrow)

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Period terminology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:58:27 GMT
	<3534@creatures.cs.vt.edu> <1992Sep25.182454.24409@watson.ibm.com>
	<3547@creatures.cs.vt.edu>
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Followup-To: rec.org.sca

In article <3547@creatures.cs.vt.edu> jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes:

   For instance: I started the "-crat" case not with "feastcrat" but with
   "autocrat".  "Feastcrat" is modern -- but "autocrat" is not, and neither
   are generative suffixes.  Do you have the same objection to
   "autocrat"?

Yes..  I don't find it as bad as "feastocrat", but wouldn't mind
seeing it Stamped Out In Our Lifetime.

   If so, how do you justify it?

I'll have to say that I found it somewhat confusing to pick up the
"real" meaning of "autocrat" as both noun and verb when I was getting
started in the SCA.

The use of it as a verb (i.e., "I'm going to autocrat the xyz event")
is *obviously* a SCA invention.

"autocrat" as we use it is "jargon", only distantly related to the
real meaning of the word: the person running an event is clearly in
charge, but they're not an "absolute ruler" in any sense of the word.

I'm not sure what the "correct" word is, but someone with ready access
to period sources would undoubtedly be able to find period names for
"someone who organizes festivities".

					- Bill









Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: leeu@nobeltech.se (Leif Euren)
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Organization: NobelTech AB
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:46:55 GMT

Moreach wrote:
>I hear little about linen.

and Robert of Ferness replied, first with a description on how flax is
grown and linen is made, then how to get hold of woolen and linen
cloth.

Mylord Robert.
First time I read your posting, I got very angry, because I thought
you described some period situation.  But a second and third reading,
revealed that you had our modern times in mind.  I can only beg you to
be a little more obvious next time.

>Linen ... is certainly cooler than wool.

As the lucky owner of a few linen tunics, I can assure you that they
are a lot more comfortable, in both hot and cold weather, than their
cotton equivalents.

>It would be nice to see more linen incorporated into garb; consider linen
>or 'linen look' next time you shop.

I thought it was a common rule, that we use cotton as a substitute for
linen.  Also, I've found modern linen fabrics to coarse to use in
garb. Thay are made that way to stress the 'linen look'.  Whereas the
smooth look was the period ideal (they just would have loved our
cottons!).

>'Linens' made from linen are also much less scratchy than 'linens'
>made from wool.

Although this is a general enough rule, it's not always true.  the
first time used, linen clothes may be very 'hard' and 'scratchy', but
this will wear away after a few washings. On the other hand, its
possible to make a cloth from "yanked" lambs wool, i.e. wool that
hasn't been cut in neither end.  It's rumored to be incredibly soft,
fit to use as underwear. I've just heard of this thing, and perhaps
it's not available any more, but its mentioned in period sources.

A fact is also that physiscians here in Sweden recommend parents to
infant to use knitted woolen pants to hold fast the diapers, as this
cause less irritation of the skin than other materials. So I don't
think woolen underwear are so uncomfortable we would like to think.

  Herr Peder Klingrode                    | Leif Euren    Stockholm, Sweden
  Holmgard, Nordmark, Drachenwald, East   | leeu@nobeltech.se

    NOTE: All opinions are my own, even if my employer claims otherwise!

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Expensive Armour
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 14:11:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <17743@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> helm@jade.ucdavis.edu writes:
>So now I will stir up the pot again ;->  I have never been able to
>find any evidence or documentation that sueded leathers were used in
>period.  The process of sueding is done by a rather sophisticated
>machine which splits a hide during the modern tanning process.  (To
>get really technical, a "split" is what most people call suede;
>actually "suede" is a split which has had a nap put on it by yet
>still another tannery machine.  So, all suedes are splits, but not
>all splits are seude.)

Well, simply turning the leather over, and putting the topgrain
inwards would do it, if you carefully sanded the underside
smooth.

I read somewhere that suede was "invented" in spain in the 16th
century, but cannot recall for certain any details.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mary@ossi.com (Mary Seabrook)
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Organization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:41:31 GMT

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>Depending on skill, you can spin a quite fine linen thread.  Indeed,
>it's *far* easier that cotton to spin.  The fiber is both stronger and
>longer.

>	--Hal

I dont have all of my references here, but that is something of an
understatement, I was amazed at some of the lace exhibit at the Victoria and
Albert (london) and it is impossible to make by machine the threads which were
had spun in period, mostly from flax.

Elizabeth
--
mary@ossi.com
+1 510 652 6200 x 124

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Membership Privileges
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:25:23 GMT

In article <717731718.F00004@ocitor.fidonet> Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring) writes:
> WH> members (and some of the reasons that apply to officers apply here),
> WH> then a logical dodge is to take out a membership in the name of
> WH> "Autocrat of the Branch X".  The newsletter could then be passed on to
> WH> whoever is autocratting the next event and a request to pass it on
> 
> An interesting idea.  Might work.  But what happens when planning for 
> events  overlap?  In our Barony, we've had years where there were as 
> many as 5  events in 10 months -- it wouldn't work here.

Unless all 5 events are in the space of no more than 2 or 3 months,
passing one (or at most, 2) copies around ought to work.  I might
point out in the general context that there have been cases where an
SCA branch has actually had an underage Seneschal and the inherenet
problems have been avoided by appointing a Senschal-for-signing-contracts
while the person who cannot do so under civil law does all the work.

Because of this, I don't see a problem with haveing a non-member
autocrat.  The Seneschal should be sufficiently available to get
things signed when they need to be signed.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 22:23:08 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BvIKrA.1Kr@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Now, raw rattan enters the country duty-free!  \8-)

Judging from my vast experience, I find it difficult to believe
that rattan enters this country *at all*...Duty free or
otherwise.

;-)

Carolus Malvoix
Montegarde An Tir
Pompous Ass (mont)
humourous iconoclast
SuperDuke-in-training;-)
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Consultants needed
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:46:30

 C> To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send greetings.
 C> Dave Aronson has kindly volunteered to maintain the list of Rialto
 C> consultants, and to post it periodically.  Several gentles have
 C> volunteered to act as consultants for various topic.

 C> However, many large areas are still not covered.  Consultants are still
 C> needed for:
 C>    Dance
 C>    Food
 C>    Brewing
 C>    Music (we only have partial coverage)


 I think you'll find I have sufficient dance knowledge to be your  consultant -- I've taught it for over 10 years, performed it in competition  and in front of the court, and translated a few of the Italien dances from  the manuscripts.  I have awards for dance from both the Midrealm and  Ansteorra.  I travel around teaching and also have a weekly class here in  the Barony of the Steppes.  It is what I do.

 -- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses, Companion of the Orders of the Iris of  Merit and the Willow, for dance, and of the order of the Purple Fret for  Service.



 

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:11:07 GMT


Carolus Malvoix writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.161545.29342@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>>In article <17741@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> helm@jade.ucdavis.edu writes:
>>>From all the responses I've seen to my original post, I'm beginning
>>>to think that my definition of what constitutes "good looking on the
>>>field" is damn close to "as much like a period illumination as possible."
>>>Mea Culpa!
>>
>>Nothing to be ashamed of...  Why do you think I'm trying to figure out
>>how to wear mail and have decent (critical) protection, too?  And have
>>a helm that looks appropriate?  (I'm considering the Vendel style and
>>hiding a removable grill under the high camail...)  Indeed--I'd like
>>to make it all so that one can take the purely SCA-protective parts
>>off and have something one can use at demos that is really appropriate
>>for early period...
>
>How about islamic armour of one sort or another? The mamelukes
>wore hauburks of mail with plates of metal linked onto breast 
>and back (big disks, essentially), pointy helms with camails
>so high that they needed to cut eyeholes into them.

If I were doing anything remotely Islamic, I might be tempted.
However, while I'm part of that widespread Western populous that says
"Persona?  What's a persona?" (I'm just a simple country Viking...), I
feel that doing so is Inappropriate.  A vendel helm can (just barely)
be justified as being an antique--to me.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Expensive Armour
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 04:55:35 GMT

A 3' x 6' sheet of 16g mild steel cost me on the order of A$40. I calculate
that this should provide me with enough steel for at least four helmets, so
including the cost of rivets, a couple of drill bits and a jigsaw blade
I could make them for under A$15. However, it took me well over three weeks
part-time work to cut patterns, test for size, cut, shape and assemble my
pot helm. Steel is not expensive, labour is, and if you don't have the skill
or strength to work with heavy gauge steel, you will have to pay for it.

My current dilemma is this: I shelled out A$50 for a hide of red suede
for my coat of plates. Putting it together, it gives me great protection,
weighs next to nothing (until I put the mail skirt on ;) and looks really
spiffy (with black leather straps and silver buckles to fasten it). But
I also have the tabard I appliqued and embroidered with my device, specifically
to cover my (assumed) shonky armour ... so the problem is: WHAT TO WEAR?!?

(It isn't easy being a fop)

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: JZB@vax2.utulsa.EDU (Jaymi Bouziden)
Subject: Re: "Gentle" and "Gentile"
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:34:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.142517.27515@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, Steve Boylan
<boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com> writes:

>A quick look at the Oxford English Dictionary will reveal that
>spellings of the word "gentle" in the period which we celebrate
>include "genteel", "gentyle", "gentile", and a few others I can't
>recall without having the OED right handy (and WHEN is the silly
>thing going to be out on CD-ROM??).

_The Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition, on CD-ROM_ is available 
from the Oxford University Press.  Aside from regular searching, it allows 
cross-reference searches, etymology searches, browsing, and printing and/or 
downloading, among other things.  Very Nice. 

Ta.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Livia Madeleine Montgomery             Northkeep, Ansteorra
Jaymi Bouziden                         Tulsa, Oklahoma
jzb@vax2.utulsa.edu 
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Barons and their removal
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:09:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.191439.21398@PA.dec.com> haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) writes:
>I am not sure how the Norsemen in general selected their leaders, but the
>example of Iceland suggests that it was more bottom up than top down, at least
>in early period (still with the limitation that only landownder counted).

In some instances--on board ship for instance--it would appear that no
leader was selected at all.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc@news.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Connery)
Subject: Responsibilities of a fighter (Was: Inexpensive, good looking armor)
Organization: Ringworld Engineering and Design
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:39:32 GMT

Carolus Malvoix, responding to my response to his note, said:

>>Carolus Malvoix (humorous iconoclast) wrote:
>>>
>>>     Yep, looking good on the field is the second most important
>>>     responsibility of a fighter;-) Fighting well being the
>>>     first.
>>
>>Hmm. I'd count it as:
>>  1)  Courteous
>>  2)  Not unsafe
>>  3)  Period appearance
>>  4)  Fighting well.

[stuff I agree with deleted <g>]

>Safety is simply part of fighting well.

A matter of definition. But I'll grant that 'variance' without a problem.

>Fighting well is more important than appearance, IMHO,
>but then I've been told many times that I take my stick
>to seriously. Certainly if someone told me that I could not
>fight until I had "pretty" armour, they'd get a piece
>of mind. IMHO they'd need the help;-)

If you examine what I wrote, the 'P' word was Period rather than
Pretty. Given that one of the major stated goals is ...study through
recreation... [not a quote], having some requirement of reasonably
period LOOKING [at a minimum] seems far more important to me than
spending time practicing a modern sport.

Again, your mileage may vary. Certainly, those who concentrate only
on the sport aspect do get more recognition than those who concentrate
only on the authenticity aspect. And those who work on both, as is
IMHO appropriate, get more positive feedback than either of the others.

Keradwc


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Keradwc an Cai     |       Adfui, Feci        |  In the Mists of the West |
 |--------------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|
 | Kevin Connery      | Quality must be designed |   Speaking FROM, not FOR: |
 |                    | into software; it cannot |   Integrated Systems, Inc |
 | kconnery@isi.com   | be patched on afterwards |           Santa Clara, CA |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: ... "Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waivers
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:14:34 GMT

I hope we've all learned something here.  Never.  NEVER ask a Westie
why they call the list ropes "the Eric".

They just can't resist telling you.  And it's not just Dorothea and Hal.
Sometimes you'll be at a tournament out West, just enjoying the view (and
wondering why the women are dressed like mushrooms), and someone comes up
and says, "why you must be from far away", and then they launch into
the explanation.

When they're done they'll finish by telling you how their kings can do
anything they want, and how they don't even know what "curia" means, and
look Jade won a tournament again.

Gawd.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca