HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Aliens the Special Edition
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:18:06 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <92Aug13.155353.24652@acs.ucalgary.ca>, by jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell):
> Cameron acknowledged that scene. He also stated that since it
> wasn't in the final release of the film, it didn't happen, and
> proposed his own Alien propogation mechanism that made for a more
> enjoyable sequel.

In his view.  I think it pretty much wrecked it.  That he just manages
to sneak by a glaring inconsistency does not make his solution any
better than it is.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:46:20 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <9223115.1503@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, by jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma):
> mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>>From article <9223022.24729@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, by jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma):
>>> Paul REiser's Burke. This is a character with depth and subtlety that the
>>> characters in the third movie were crying out for. The problem with his
 
>>AH Hahahahahahahah oh oh.  That hurts.
 
> Note I said *third* movie, not *first* movie. What you go on to say about Ash
> isn't really relevant.

Sorry to disagree, but attributing depth and subtlety is a
contradiction per se, not merely to any specific film, and Ash serves
especially well for this, since he performs the same role as Burke
does.

>>Aliens hat great parody and a lot of hardware, some of which was very
>>good (of the hardware, that is).
 
> Hardware does not necessarily rule out characterisation. 

I completely agree, and my above comment does not imply any kind of
causality...

>Try watching the film.

...but Aliens really is devoid of characterization, and instead relies on
caricature.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:39:49 GMT

mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:

>From article <9223022.24729@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, by jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma):
>> Paul REiser's Burke. This is a character with depth and subtlety that the
>> characters in the third movie were crying out for. The problem with his

>AH Hahahahahahahah oh oh.  That hurts.

Note I said *third* movie, not *first* movie. What you go on to say about Ash
isn't really relevant.

(Glad to bring amusement to your life, though. God knows we all need a laugh.)

>> character on the second and subsequent viewing of this film is that you
>> *know* he is the bad guy.

>No, sorry, but that was clear from the moment he went on board the
>Sulaco to "represent the Company's interests".

Really? Sorry, that wasn't clear to me, especially on the first viewing.

>Companies like that tend to happen.  Period.  This is not merely a
>factor of single persons like Burke.  Power corrupts.  Aliens wimps
>out by showing us, explicitly, in detail, a single man who is
>responsible for allmost all that goes wrong in that film.  (Gorman is
>the other, and he has the same depth of character as Burke, namely
>none.)

Alien says that "The Company" did all this. Aliens says that people, like you
and me, did this. I still find the Aliens concept a lot scarier. The evil does
not come from the bureaucracy, but from those within it.

>What is scary is not that greedy people happen, but that the
>involvement of ordinary people in large, impersonal organizations can
>make them act impersonally as well.  Sea Wasp, I think, quoted

This is exactly what Burke is like. He genuinely cares about Ripley, and 
really believes that although he works for "The Company", he is really "an O-K
guy." He has no qualms, however, about killing 200 people at the other end of
a subspace radio link. Alien shows us the results of impersonality, (and Alien 3
reinforces the point with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer) but Aliens shows
us the source, and it is us.

>> Aliens had great characterisations and great hardware.

>Aliens hat great parody and a lot of hardware, some of which was very
>good (of the hardware, that is).

Hardware does not necessarily rule out characterisation. Try watching the film.

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
JJ Glamma                          | "If there ever is another war in Europe,
aka James William Patrick Bennetts |  it will start with some damn fool thing
jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU         |  in the Balkans."
I LIKED HIGHLANDER 2, OK?!	   |	-- Otto Von Bismark 
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: walrus@bessel.umd.edu (Grig Larson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Movies circa 1983-1984
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:46:57 GMT
Organization: Punkadyne Industries(tm)

Hello, I need your help on a historical reference about sf movies.
 
I need to know:

A: Big sf&f movies that came out in 1983, preferably late 1983.
B: Which Star Trek were we on then, Wrath of Tin Khan? :)
C: Had Return of the Jedi come out by then?
D: If you give me movies in 1984, make sure they are early 1984.
 
I am giving a historical backdrop on EveCon's 10th year anneversary, and
would like to date them in this manner.
 
Also, if you have some other big references that might be in interest of
Fandom at that time, please pass it along to this address!
 
Thank you all so much!
 


=================<<< <  <   < *Punk Walrus* >   >  > >>>=================
[  \||/  |       ---------------------------------------       |  \||/  ]
[  (o-)  | "It might be in the     ||  walrus@bessel.umd.edu   |  (o-)  ]
[   /\   |  basement, I'll go up-  ||  Punk Walrus on the      |   /\   ]
[ Punkus |  stairs and check..."   ||  FanTek BBS 301-203-9582 | It's   ]
[ Walrus |       -- M.C. Escher -- ||  SF&F Author Extrordinare| Punkie!]
=========================================================================
Official EveCon 10 Representative for the InterNet Entertainment System.
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge A. Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Aliens the Special Edition
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:48:23 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <u906789.713782761@bruny> u906789@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Mark Julian Turner) writes:

>But Newt was consious when Ripley found her. And she would have been cocooned
>for a shorter time than if Burke had been. But the is all just hypothetical
>since it does look like Burke was about to get his head ripped off(The alien
>had the same action (hissing, dribbling, opening mouth) as when Ferro was 
>killed).

And when Brett was captured...  The Aliens seem to react that way all the
time.  And we don't know that the Alien killed Ferro.  It could have just
knocked her out (yeah, we saw a little blood on the window, but it was
hardly a huge, bite-her-head-off splatter).

Of course, the explosion killed her. :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: thogek@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Thomas Kiefer)
Subject: Re: Naming Alien 4
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:48:02 GMT

>Joshua Bell (jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>My vote:
>                       _           _       _
>                      | |  |   |  |   | | | |    /|
>                      |_|  |  :|: |-  |\|  \    | |
>                      | |  |  :|: |   | |   |   |_|_
>                      | |  |_  |  |_  | | |_|     |
>                     
>                             THE AWAKENING
> Or, we could always go for Aliens' (on the homeworld), A Fistfull
> of Aliens (set in the old west), 7 Hosts for 7 Aliens (a few
> sequels down the line...)... sigh, I remember the speculation for
> III - Three Aliens and a Little Lady, The Three Aliens,
> Alienses... :)

In article <edd151s.713586079@nella1.cc.monash.edu.au> michaell@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Michael Lazarou) writes:
>How about "For a few Aliens more", "An Alien too far", "Son of Alien",
>"Dances with Aliens", "RoboAlien", ......

In article <1992Aug13.150937.12740@syma.sussex.ac.uk> edd151s@nella1.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr I.P. Rayner) writes:
>Well, we had Alien cubed, and if Alien 4 is going to be just as bad you could
>call it Alien rooted.

In article <sprooney.713595707@unix1.tcd.ie> sprooney@unix1.tcd.ie (Simon Rooney) writes:
>Or how about this one: 'Even more of the bastards!!!'

In article <1992Aug14.132915.20776@ultb.isc.rit.edu> cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Alien-buster) writes:
>How about "ALIENS 4: THE ALIENS INFEST URANUS" ?

(...Sorry if I missed anybody...)

There's also:
     "The Aliens Strike Back"
     "Return of the Alien(s)"
     "Look Who's Alien"
     "Gone With the Aliens"
     "Alienanna Jones"
     "Alien Returns"
     "The Alien in Miss Jones"
     "An Alien of Their Own"
     "Mo' Aliens"
     "Doc Alien"
     "Howard the Alien"
     "Total Alien"
...ad infinitum...

Now: anyone care to actually write/outline one of these?
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
======================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Alien^3?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 23 AUG 92 02:32:13 EDT

In article <66521@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes...

}} At that point, I'd pick up a heavy iron bar, go down into the tunnels,
}} find the Alien, and whack the living shit out of it.

} First, what are the odds that the Alien would just sit there and take
} a beating?  It can still run, you know.  Probably faster than Ripley.
} It can climb walls.  It can disappear (not literally, but it's damn good
} at hiding).  I don't think Ripley would get a single hit on it.

That's irrelevant. The point isn't whether she'd succeed at it, the point
is that she'd *try*.

}} This would've been the logical end to Ripley's story. If they'd done it
}} this way, I don't think it could've salvaged the film as a whole, but
}} it would've resulted in a better film than what we got.

} Hardly.

Hardly?  Almost *anything* would've resulted in a better film. ALIEN^3 was
a ghastly piece of trash with about two or three visually arresting scenes
that kept it from becoming a complete and total waste of celluloid.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: ALIEN(S)(3)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:43:39 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Aug19.153154.25151@gdt.bath.ac.uk> hs0sagg@gdt.bath.ac.uk (Simon Granville) writes:
>>>	So why don't I think there are any 
>>>fertile male aliens? Because I think the aliens 
>>>are a created species, not an evolved one.
[snip] 

>This theory was put forward in the Aliens.vs.Predator comics, that the
>aliens are sort of training/initiation enemies for young predators.
>

Aliens vs Predator 2 (appearing in Dark Horse Insider) shows a
party of Predators (if thats the correct collective :) and Mikko
(the woman from AvsP that joins up with the Predators at the end)
setting out to capture a new Queen from a hive.

They didn't make 'em, they just use 'em. No commentary on whether
or not they're artificial.

Joshua
   _  _      "Thats a good idea!"  "I have those every once in a while."
 -(_)(_)-      "Why do you listen to me when I'm wrong?!?"
 \      /          - Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine
  |  . |      
  -____-      jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca 
 /  \/  \     Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary
From: cargo@cray.com (David S. Cargo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: THE CLOWN IN "IT"
Summary: Tim Curry is IT
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:13:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: hemlock.1992Aug17.141322.1616
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


The clown was played by Tim Curry.  Mr. Curry has played many odd
roles in many odd movies.  Rocky Horror Picture Show, Legend, Hunt for
Red October, a voice in Ferngully.

                        o       o
cargo@escargot.cray.com  \_____/
                         /=O=O=\     _______
DDDD      SSSS   CCCC   /   ^   \   /\\\\\\\\
D   D    S      C       \ \___/ /  /\   ___  \
D   D     SSS   C        \_ V _/  /\   /\\\\  \
D   D        S  C          \  \__/\   /\ @_/  /
DDDDavid SSSS.   CCCCargo   \____\____\______/
From: tannerr@CS.ORST.EDU (Ryan Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Where to send SciFi movie scripts?
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:57:35 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept
Originator: tannerr@storm.CS.ORST.EDU

A friend and I are writing science fiction movie scripts.  We'd like some
ideas on where to send them.  Please email or post some addresses of
people who might be interested in buy said scripts.  I'd like some kind
of description of the person/organization also.  Thanks

Ryan (tannerr@prism.cs.orst.edu)

-- 
Ryan Tanner (tannerr@prism.orst.edu)        Highlander III quote:
                                                   "There can be only FIVE!"

DISCLAIMER:  I don't even know the person!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: uhschreg@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Ulrich Schreglmann)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:33:37 GMT

jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:

>xenophobes

Xenophobes are people afraid of aliens.

Xenomorphs is what I guess you mean. (Meaning about "weird looking".)


May the Xool Be with You!

(C)OOL mcmxcii
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (Two days and a wake-up...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Alien^3?
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:27:34 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Aug21.005658.25530@socrates.umd.edu>, caruso@socrates.umd.edu (John Caruso) writes...

} But to even talk about Alien^3 in these terms is to give it far more
} credit than it deserves; I've gone right past the complete incoherence
} and rampant idiocy of the plot itself. Ripley goes to find the alien
} so it can end her life, but she's already fully aware--has had it
} graphically demonstrated to her--that it won't kill her because she's
} a host.

Which only goes to demonstrate that the filmmakers couldn't see what was
right in front of their nose. If I was Ripley, my train of thought would
be:

(1) The Alien doesn't want to kill or hurt me because I'm carrying a
    queen embryo.
(2) I hate this Alien, and I want to kill it.
(3) Because of (1), if I try to kill it, it won't fight back.
(4) If I get doused with acid trying to kill it, I'll die, but I'll die
    anyway when the embryo "hatches", so who cares?  If I die this way,
    I might kill the embryo in the process.

At that point, I'd pick up a heavy iron bar, go down into the tunnels,
find the Alien, and whack the living shit out of it.

This would've been the logical end to Ripley's story. If they'd done it
this way, I don't think it could've salvaged the film as a whole, but
it would've resulted in a better film than what we got.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
From: gbradley@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: new GODZILLA video available in UK
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:41:59 GMT
Reply-To: gbradley@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley)


   Polygram has released a third Godzilla video in the UK. This time it
is a TRIPLE bill of "Invasion of the Astro Monster", "Ebirah - Horror of
the Deep" and "Destroy All Monsters". The format is 2 VHS tapes, running
time 259 minutes. The whole thing costs a mere 10.99 pounds sterling -
bloody good value. One gripe: the films are not widescreened as in the
last 2 Godzilla double bills Polygram released :-(  Oh well.

+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Gary Bradley        |   "You receive a love letter from me and |
| ORACLE Corp, UK     |                  you're f*cked forever!" |
| Edinburgh, SCOTLAND |        - Frank Booth ("Blue Velvet")     |
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| "God damn the censor man"                                      |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: uhschreg@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Ulrich Schreglmann)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:56:07 GMT

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

>Why?  Because you didn't get the happy ending that you wanted?  Because
>everything didn't turn out OK?  To put it bluntly, THAT'S LIFE.  Things
>don't always turn out OK in the end.

Yeah, but the person you identify with shouldn't die. They may suffer,
but not die. Because if they die it's like you die, and that's not life!
Other people die, but you can never experience dying, because you'd be
dead. Or in other words: Did you ever die? See!
That's what sucks.


May the Cool Be with You!

(C)OOL mcmxcii
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: Re: Aliens the Special Edition
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:56:58 GMT

In article <5715@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>, mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes...

} There is NOTHING in Alien to suggest the Alien can't lay new eggs.  No
} scene, no remark, no hint.

} Therefore, the solution, simple, straightforward, and without holes:
} The Alien himself laid the egg that produced the facehugger that
} impregnated Dallas.  This clearly is the intended meaning.

No, it isn't. The intended meaning (as is made clear in the novelization,
as well as ancillary materials about the film) is that when a victim is
coccooned, he is *transformed* by some unspecified genetic process into
an Alien egg.

} Face it, it simply is Aliens that is inconsistent with both Alien and
} its novelization, both of which came out much earlier. Since they cut
} those scenes out of the final version of Alien, it doesn't show up too
} glaringly, but it's all Cameron's fault, since he imposed that
} queen-and-hive-botch on the Aliens.

I disagree with your conclusion. Cameron felt that he could come up with
his own theory for the Alien procreative process precisely *because*
there were no scenes in the released version of ALIEN that would make
his own idea contradictory. It doesn't matter what O'Bannon or Scott or
anyone else intended, or what Foster put in the novelization.

As you said, there's nothing in ALIEN that says that a warrior Alien could
not lay an egg. In fact, there's also nothing in ALIEN that says that a
Warrior, after "securing" an area, couldn't *transform* into a Cameron-
style Queen for the purpose of laying a large number of eggs.

Since ALIEN (in the only form it was ever seen by the public since its
initial release) did not establish any solid procreative process for the
Aliens, Cameron was free to pursue his own ideas WITHOUT CONTRADICTING
THE ORIGINAL FILM.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: CSIRO ITS
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 07:38:58 GMT

In article <9223212.11090@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma) writes:
>jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>
>>Anyone see any problems with this sceme?
>
>1) The Sulaco was a military transport. I can (just) by Weyland-Yutani tapping
>into its telemetry in the third film, but I certainly don't buy them being
>able to issue orders to the military hardware.

If a dropship could be remotely piloted from the planet below - why cant it
be remotely piloted from somewhere else?


>
>2) Even if they could, by the time they realised what was happening and issued
>the orders, the Sulaco would be two weeks closer to home at FTL speeds. The
>Marine Corps might notice if one of their ships started acting strangely.
>
>3) The Derelict is just that - a derelict. The dropship can sit outside with its
>doors open till the cows come home, and nothing will wander on board. Both Kane
>and Jorden were grabbed when they went into the egg chamber and started poking 
>at eggs.

Here's an idea - who says there was'nt another android on the Sulaco the
whole time? Sort of an insurance policy for the company. Ripley and the rest
go into hypersleep - the android pilots a dropship to the derelict and
carts a few eggs inside. Simple. 


-- 
* Steve Green     *  "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat!"    *
* Comms Group     *  "That trick never works"                            *
* ITS Branch      *  "Nothin' up my sleeve - PRESTO"                     *
* CSIRO Australia *  "No doubt about it - I gotta get another hat"       *
From: slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:56:10 MDT
Organization: United Order of Non-joiners

seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

[a lot of arguing about Alien^3 removed]

> 	Like, maybe it's time the poor lady got a F*CKING BREAK??
> 
> [griping about how Ripley's sacrifice is meaningless, Newt was
> ripped away, etc. removed] 

     OK, I've missed something here.  Why does a movie have to have a
happy ending?  Why does Ripley deserve a break?  Too many movies these
days try to make the audience feel good.  I've heard "Pretty Woman"
originally had a sad ending, but it was reshot because test audiences
didn't like it.  Others have claimed "Casablanca" could not be made
today because it doesn't have a happy ending.

     So what!  I liked Alien^3 in part because they didn't wimp out
and give us a feel-good ending.
-- 
Patrick S. Clark | When the world's in trouble I am not slow.
Email is life!   | So it's hip-hip-hip and away I go!
Usual Disclaimer | (You should know this one.)