HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:09:29 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

#When I am showing someone how to shoot for the first time
#(vs. showing them for the third or forth ;-( ) and they 
#want to shoot the .45 after lots of .22, I will put one 
#round in it and let them go for it (mentioning that it 
#will kick a lot, of course).

I go shooting with novice women.  They really don't want to shoot a
.22 (they think that recoilless air guns are a joke; they're out to
shoot guns) and I don't see it as my place to tell them that their
values are screwed up.  I tell them what to expect and that they have
to hold the gun.  They do fine with 9mms and .38 specials in a .357,
but they prefer .45 ACP 1911A1s like God intended so help me Cooper,
especially the 100 lbs, squeal when they see spiders, teens.  (I'm not
a Cooperite; they are.)

They EXPECT and somewhat desire recoil.  They think that it is part of
the experience and just want to know how to deal with it.  (They know
that it can be dealt with; men do.)  They're somewhat surprised by how
little recoil there is.  After they get over their initial surprise,
they occasionally do silly things like try to "protect" the gun from
recoil by recoiling themselves, but a few jams cure them of that.
They don't flinch until they try weak holds in an effort to improve
their aim, long after they've been hiting the black at 7 yards
consistently.

I sometimes think that they think that I've shortchanged them, that
I'm protecting them from guns that really recoil, the guns that they
really want to shoot.  I suppose I could make up something to set them
back a bit, but that wouldn't do anyone any good.

I suppose it all depends on what you're trying to get across.  I'm
just interested in letting them shoot safely and competently.

-andy
-- 
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: well!garbanzo!jimbo@apple.com (Jim Bianchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Magazine disconnect safety (was Re: Stupid shooter tricks)
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:07 GMT
Organization: Garbanzo BBS, (707) 529-1279, Santa Rosa, CA


# jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
# #I remember reading about a guy who was showing his friends his
# #new Colt.  Apparently, he learned S&W or Browning pistols,
# #because he thought the Colt had a magazine disconnect.
# #Unfortunately for him, he chose to demonstrate that the gun would
# #not fire with the magazine removed by pointing it at his head and
# #had a live round in the chamber.  (Talk about stupidity being a
# #capital offense.)

jca@crash.cts.com writes:
# Now that is stupidity.  There's always a chance that any given safety
# may malfunction.  But since you have drifted into a mild tangent
# about magazine disconnect safeties.  I wasn't aware of Browning pistols
# having a magazine disconnect safety, but only S&W pistols.  Could
# someone please elaborate if this is true or not.

     Yup. Beretta's (otherwise superior) "Hi Powr" (9mmP) handgun has one, 
their M84 and M85 (9mm corto -- .380) has one and their Mle 101 (.22lr) has 
one also. These I KNOW from personal experience (ownership). FIE (Excam) 
autopistols have them also in their .380 and .22lr models.

     --
     jimbo@garbanzo.UUCP (Jim Bianchi)
     Garbanzo BBS, (707) 529-1279, Santa Rosa, CA
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:53:17 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 15 Aug 92 02:47:39 GMT, meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) said:

Bill> In article <9208111454.AA01260@gilligan.webo.dg.com> googs@gilligan.webo.dg.com (Joe Gugliemino) writes:
Bill> [ ... ]
Bill> #Once I do clean them up, how do I keep the rust from returning?  I've

Bill> Brownell's sells a product ("VPI", I think) that inhibits rust in its
Bill> vicinity.  Place the object to be protected in a more-or-less airtight
Bill> container, and put some of this white powder in with it.  (I wrap some
Bill> in a bit of kleenex.)  Works for me!  [BTW, don't expect miracles --
Bill> I got rust anyway on a rifle that had slept with me in a swamp ... :-]

They also sell an impregnated paper that when sealed in an airtight
container, will inhibit rust for up to 15 years (only guaranteed for a
couple, but tests have shown effectiveness for MUCH longer than the
guarantee).  One square foot of the paper is sufficient for 1 cubic
foot of volume.  They also sell pistol and long gun plastic bags which
are designed to be sealed with the paper inside of them.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 10mm in M1 carb?
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:42:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.9208191632.AA10682
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <1992Aug19.030840.11858@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu
(James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

#BTW, could M1 Carbines be made in 10mm?  Would there be anything 
#good about it.   I've thought the M1 would be interesting in some other
#caliber, 10mm, .44 Mag, .357, .223, anything.   Would hot 10mm in a rifle
#barrel be preferable to .30 carbine to any of you?  What I've heard
#about .30 carbine is not encouraging: very loud and little velocity
#or stopping power.

The thing which determines an action's suitability for a cartridge is
its ability to withstand the peak backthrust of the cartridge.  To a 
first order, the peak backthrust of the cartridge is the area of its
maximum internal diameter times its peak chamber pressure.  I don't
recall the peak allowable chamber pressures for the 30 carb and the
10 mm auto, but for approximation, let's say they're the same.  Then
the backthrust of the 10 mm will be (.400/.308)^2 = 1.7 times as large
as the backthrust from the 30 carb.  Based on this, I would say that
it is not likely that the M1 carb action is suitable for the 10mm.  A
very similar action is that of the Mini-14.  It handles a cartridge of 
larger ID and higher pressure than the 30 carb.  It may well be suitable 
for the 10 mm, aethetics aside.  8-)  If you're enamored of a 10 mm 
in a carbine, the Marlin camp carbine seems like a natural for such
a conversion.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Should my first handgun be a .22? (Too wimpy for defense?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:38 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

In <9208170747.AA09832@network.ucsd.edu> mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington) writes:
#I need the advice of rec.guns readers about purchasing my first handgun.
#What I'm looking for is:

#- A gun to learn shooting with and to improve marksmanship
#- A gun to use for personal defense in the city
#- A gun to bring backpacking for protection against bears and 
#  general personal defense in the backcountry

[rest of article deleted]

This seems to call for three different guns.  While reconciling 
requirements 1 and 2 seem easy to me by recommending a 9mm Para pistol,
I don't think requirement 3 (it should be a bear-dropper) falls in that
range.  For bears, .44 Magnum is weak fodder (at least according to 
articles I read).  I'd recommend getting a specialized handgun for
each requirement, e.g.

  1) a .22 pistol or revolver which feels like a "big" gun, e.g. a
     Ruger MK II or a S&W M622 or the Manurhin Sport revolver
  2) a 9mm Para pistol (SIG 226, Glock 17, Browning), a double-action
     .45 or a good .357 revolver from S&W
  3) a S&W M29 or better, if manageable, a Casull.  Best would be no
     handgun at all, but a high-powered short rifle (they're called
     'Stutzen' in Austria)

None of these guns could be called "inexpensive", but, according to
the original poster, price isn't an issue right now.

I'm not sure about the defense against bears.  Since the only bears in
Austria can be found at the stock exchange this year :-), I have no
personal experience with handgunning bears.  Anybody have deeper
insights there?

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays ?
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:47:43 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

#Just a few points, some that perhaps you didn't know - the International
#games are regulated and officated by the National Rifle Association. (See
#folks, they DO do something outside of Washington)

The problem is that the NRA does TOO much outside of washington, not
that they do too little outside of DC.

Wouldn't it be nice if the NRA spent time/money on politics?  If
they're going to be beat up for being the big bad $100M/year gun
lobby, they might as well be said gun lobby, instead of a group that
does a little politics on the side.

-andy
-- 
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu

[MODERATOR:  Come on, folks, its still a feature that NRA does this service.
Let's remember we are all pretty much on the same side here....]
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:11 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <rani.714254867@barsoom> rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen) writes:

#bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) writes:

##We all know that dropping the slide on an empty chamber causes the gun
##to jump forward and the trigger to activate the sear because the trigger's
##mass tries to hold the trigger still when the rest of the gun jumps forward.
##That's why dropping the slide can give you an A.D.  My theory as to the
                                               ^^^^^
#Doesn't seem too likely to me... -Are you sure you mean Accidental Discharge?

#[MODERATOR: Hmmm.   Point well taken....]

Gee, guys; I knew what I meant, why isn't it obvious to you?  Can't
you follow stream-of-consciousnes or free-association?  Am I not
allowed an occasional mental lapse?  (Or in the words of our august,
revered, & indelicate MODERATOR, "an episode of cerebral flatulence",
or some other phrase to that effect.) 

What I was thinking of was: if you have a gun with an especially light
trigger pull and you happen to have a trigger with a little too much 
mass, then if you drop the slide without holding the trigger back, you
may get an A.D. due to the trigger's inertia.  The association was that
the trigger's inertia figures in both this phenomenon and my theory
as to why a match trigger is damaged by dropping the slide without
holding back the trigger, especially when done with no round in the 
magazine (not with no round in the chamber, another small error).  
There now, wasn't that simple and obvious?  Aren't you ashamed?
Actually, theory is a little too elevated; hypothesis, conjecture,
and speculation come to mind as being a little more on point.

Oh well, live by the sword, die by the sword; or is it live by the
sward, die by the lawn mower?  Hell, I don't know.

John B

PS: The above was littered with many implied smilies.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Another irritating S&W 586 question
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:10:18 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208202100.AA20919@SSD.intel.com> hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
#
#The barrels *are not* crimped in.  Older S&W revolvers had the barrel pinned,
#but *crimping*?  Where did you hear such a thing?
#

I believe it from John French.  The head of the custom revolver shop at
S&W.  BEFORE he went there, he had a shop in Duarte CA and some people,
(like my wife) oun Bianchi revolvers made by hi hands.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Class III Lawsuit - Call to arms
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:11:31 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Hi, i thought i'd let the net know about my current war against
those who are out to deny us our constitutional rights.

I am currently involved in a civil suit against our city's
chief of police, because of his unwillingness to sign Official
documents associated with legally owning a Class III (machine gun)
firearm. We have over 10 witnesses to subpoena, in addition to 
numerous copies of Form 4's which the chief has signed. We have
so much evidence against the man, I wonder how we can lose.
Discrimination is still rampant out there folks! Fights these guys
at the polls!

Anyway.. if there are any other class III owners, dealers or enthusiasts
out there, please inquire as to how you can help out. I would appreaciate
any donations folks would like to make to assist with my legal fees.
I have set up a place where you can mail to for more information, as
I hardly expect people to assist me - sight unseen. If you're interested
and would like to help, or get a copy of what we have and provide
some other form of assistance.. i'd love to hear from you..

Write or donate to:

Fighting for NFA Rights
P.O. Box 22216
Lexington, KY 40522-2216

Thank you for you time!
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need help restoring a family relic
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:32:49 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

#My parents have recently passed down a family relic to me, a pre-civil
#war, double barrel shotgun (looks like 12 ga.).  Unfortanetly, my
#parents stored it in the attic - loose.  It's rusted, the stock is
#broken, and one of the hammers is missing.

	First, take it to a gunsmith and find out exactly what it is,
how it's supposed to look, and let him start asking around for the
parts you need.  As for money, how much time do you have and how
much do you appreciate this gun?  You can make a stock yourself -- it's
a trivial matter of obtaining the wood and then cutting and sanding it
to the right coutours, and drilling a few mounting holes.  The rust
can be removed with steel wool, and you can even blue the thing
yourself.  I'd say $100 is a reasonable amount to spend and get a very
nice-looking firearm out of it, but expect fifty hours of work by
you to get it looking good again, and that's if you're fairly
competent with tools and the like.

	Above all, talk to the gunsmith.  He'll know, or find out,
what you will need and coach you every step of the way if he's any
kind of decent smith.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >


[MODERATOR:  Let me underscore the caution that Dan gives above.  Remember
that a shotgun from that era is likely to be a *blackpowder* shotgun, and
is unlikely to ever shoot any modern load you can find in a store.]
From: jca@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Magazine disconnect safety (was Re: Stupid shooter tricks)
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:34:20 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#I remember reading about a guy who was showing his friends his
#new Colt.  Apparently, he learned S&W or Browning pistols,
#because he thought the Colt had a magazine disconnect.
#Unfortunately for him, he chose to demonstrate that the gun would
#not fire with the magazine removed by pointing it at his head and
#had a live round in the chamber.  (Talk about stupidity being a
#capital offense.)

Now that is stupidity.  There's always a chance that any given safety
may malfunction.  But since you have drifted into a mild tangent
about magazine disconnect safeties.  I wasn't aware of Browning pistols
having a magazine disconnect safety, but only S&W pistols.  Could
someone please elaborate if this is true or not.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Surplus rifle advice
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:41:09 GMT
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Ed Rudnicki writes:

[lots of stuff deleted]
#Mausers in 6.5mm are a decent choice if you can get brass; 6.5mm/.257
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
#bullets are readily available. The 7.65mm Mausers - same, except .30
#bullets.

Ed, I'm sure you meant to write "6.5mm/.264" instead.  Sorry for
picking the nit, but I didn't want any novices to get confused by the
typo.


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black chrome ?
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:47:30 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <9208140846.aa14214@elf.wang.com> chrisb@wang.com 
(Chris Bennet) writes:

#Are there any finishes that are durable but look like
#bluing - black chrome perhaps ?

But of course:

Robar Companies, Inc.  
tel (602) 581-2648
FAX (602) 582-0059  
21438 N. 7th Ave., Suite. B
Phoenix, AZ 85027
Owner: Robbie Barkman


John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 s&w questions
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:06:54 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <9208191756.AA17991@relay1.UU.NET> gonzalez@bbn.com (Jim Gonzalez) writes:
#By the way, his number-of-rounds-times-energy-per harping reminds of 
#the "my amp goes up to 11" scene out of Spinal Tap.

Naaah - *that* was funny.

Rule #1 for gunfighting: Bring a gun.

-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:47:39 GMT
Organization: N/I

In article <9208111454.AA01260@gilligan.webo.dg.com> googs@gilligan.webo.dg.com (Joe Gugliemino) writes:
[ ... ]
#Once I do clean them up, how do I keep the rust from returning?  I've

Brownell's sells a product ("VPI", I think) that inhibits rust in its
vicinity.  Place the object to be protected in a more-or-less airtight
container, and put some of this white powder in with it.  (I wrap some
in a bit of kleenex.)  Works for me!  [BTW, don't expect miracles --
I got rust anyway on a rifle that had slept with me in a swamp ... :-]
--------
Sen. Terry Sanford, who as Governor of North Carolina refused Police protection
to a Civil Rights march, supports your Right to Keep and Bear Sporting Goods.
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm major / 9x21 reloading question
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:50:43 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <1992Aug12.171430.22984@henson.cc.wwu.edu> by n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio):

# Is there something bad about the .38 Super that I am not aware of, or 
# is it simply consumer preference?    I know about the semi-rimmed nature
# of the cartridge, but to my knowlege it does not effect performance.

It CAN affect performance, but only if the barrel in question isn't cut to
headspace on the case mouth like the 9mm and .45.  I believe that most of the 
good barrels, such as Bar-Sto, headspace on the mouth.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Top Man Stoppers???
Date: 15 Aug 92 17:00:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <1992Aug14.210200.12308@samba.oit.unc.edu> med.unc.edu!rslugg@concert.net (Robert Slugg) writes:
#t a Baltimore, MD gun show one dealer had all sorts of specialty shotgun
#ammo, including the bolo-wire round.  They also had one called the
                     ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
You mean someone DOES make one of these things?!?

Don't look at me, folks; I thought they were another urban legend.

--
David Winters
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu *OR* winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

	Illigitimi non carborundum
From: jca@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Another snapcap question.
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:21 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
#The only problem I can see, is that:  Are snapcaps' construction sturdy
#enough to take a slide's cycling?

They should.  If it can take the stress of the slide being dropped on
them when chambered during dry firing then they should be able to take the
slide's cycling action.  The frame and slide take more abuse than the round
being chambered providing you don't have a jam.  The only way to find
out for sure is to try it.  Snap caps are not fragile things.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning A-bolt
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:06:49 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Aug18.234105.5255@raid.dell.com> edward@locutus.dell.com (Edward Godwin) writes:
#
#Just FYI,  I do not think that the bbl is glass-bedded.  Mine is free-floating.
#By the definition that I have for the two terms, they are contradictory.
#

The terms are not contradictory, they can be complimentary.  Most of my
guns are glass-bedded AND free-floated.  I know 'cause I did it myself.
Glassbedding refers to mating the action to the stock with a hard bedding
compound, usually fiberglass resin.  THe barrel does not have to bedded.
Most people bed the action only and leave the barrel alone. Except to 
free float it.  That is to relieve any pressure on the barrel forward of
the chamber.  The point at which to stop near the reciever is a point of
debate.  Some think that the first 3 or 4 inches of the barrel should be
bedded.  I bed about the first inch and leave it at that.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com