HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Westwater flow and water temperature?
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:46:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS

In article <1992Oct6.225335.2012@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein) writes:
> 
> 
> Can anyone who ran Westwater last weekend tell me what the flow (cfs)
> and water temperatue were?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve
> 
I think the flow was around 3500 (fri nite @ 5:00).  Don't have an exact
number on the temperature, but our group was swimming around in it in just
bathing suits (but not for long!).

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: hot weather gear
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:32:55 GMT

I have not tries swimming in them, but when I lived in Tucson I wore long-
sleeved silk undershirts. You usually see them in winter backpacking or
duckhunting catalouges. They are very light weight, keep the sun from burning,
and are great while working up a big sweat.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center
Date: Monday, 12 Oct 1992 15:58:07 CET
From: <K111118@ALIJKU11.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Rafting and kajak in Indonesia

Hello,
could anyone help me to find information about rivers in
Bali or Somalia? Friends of me will fly in November and they have
no infos about.
Thanks           Walter (Austria)
                 K111118@alijku11.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Date: 13 Oct 1992 23:03:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

atb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Brown) writes:

> best squirt rapid:  tunnel falls.  this rapid consists of two monster rocks
>   that constricts the river to about a 20' opening.  the river probably
>   drops 4 or 5 feet.  on the left side of the chute is a boiling, nasty hole.
>   drop the squirt boat in the seam between the hole and the main chute.
>   holy smokes, meltdown city!  you'll proably pop-up about 20' downstream.
>   fun fun fun fun fun!

Don't you mean Funnel Falls?  The first really serious rapid on the run?
I always wondered what it would be like to swim into that hole on the left.
Do swimmers have more buoyancy than squirt boats?  If so I assume they'd
pop up sooner than 20' downstream.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Rowing canoes
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:20:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct07.122739.17271@brtph560.bnr.ca>
rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220) writes:
 
>I own a Old Town Penobscot 16' ABS canoe. A few years ago I purchased a
>rowing frame that sets on top of the gunwales. It has a sliding seat and
>uses 7.5' oars. I is called A-ROW-BIC and was hade by a motorcycle
>accessories factory in Ct. It can be used indoors in the winter as an
>exercise machine also.
>
>It works really well. It is quite fast and good exercise. When rowed solo I
>have no problem keeping up with kayaks. In a sleeker canoe it whould be
>quite fast.
>
>I have seen rowing attachments in the back of canoe magazine but none
>with a sliding seat. I don't know if the A-ROW-BIC is still made.
 
Martin Marine (Maine) still makes the "Oarmaster," a drop-in sliding-seat
unit used in their line of rowing shells.  The 64" span (between oarlocks)
is (very close to) the standard for rowing shells, and so it requires
"standard" (about 9 1/2') "oars."  While such a setup may cost more than
scaled down units (like the A-ROW-BIC), it more closely approximates a
rowing shell--in other words, it is probably even faster.  We have several
such setups and find that dropping one into our old Gruman and putting
the whole thing on the small lake behind our house is a nice way to
introduce people to rowing.
 
Several other firms make (made) such units, including one in which the
seat is fixed but the riggers (ie the oarlocks) slide with the feet.
(This means that your center of gravity stays relatively fixed with
respect to the hull; on short hulls--such as my sailboard--a sliding
seat arrangement would result in excessive pitching.)  If you are
mechanically inclined and have access to a scrap metal yard, you can
make such a unit for very little. My sliding rigger unit for my
sailboard cost about $25 in parts (but then, I was lucky and was able
to come up with a good design using stuff that happened to be available)
and took about 15 hours to fabricate.  Although such a unit on a sailboard
compares unfavorably to a true rowing shell, it works well on our small
lake (too small for a hard-to-turn shell), takes less than 5 minutes
to get ready (from whim to first stroke), and gets considerable use.
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: shredder ride
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:25:00 GMT


Anyone ever seen a Shreder?  Used one down the Upper Gauley this weekend.
Wild ride, the boats are incrediabley forgiving.  Never been on the Upper
Gauley before and that was a great way to see it.
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:29:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: vmd.16881D9F7.EPLUS17
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <26905@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk writes:
 
>tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>> Do swimmers have more buoyancy than squirt boats?  If so I assume they'd
>> pop up sooner than 20' downstream.
>
>A little thought will reveal that swimmers have less bouyancy than
>squirt boats.  Even with a full life jacket, not just a PFD, not much
>more than a swimmer's head sticks out.  A squirt boater has a *little*
>more than that out of the water.
>
It takes more than a little thought.  If, for instance, the boat were
made of 1/4" lead, it would probably sink, whereas a swimmer would float.
So, the answer depends on how heavy the boat is compared to its volume in
excess of a swimmer's.  I reach the same conclusion, but it requires at
least two little bits of thought.
From: luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: The Deerfield
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:22:44 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center

I have a friend going to the Deerfield on Saturday for a scheduled release. 
She has some information but nothing specific.  For instance, how does the 
size of the release effect the run?

Dean Nelson
den0@lehigh.edu  (Eastern PA) 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: shaw+@cs.cmu.edu (Mary Shaw)
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:50:56 GMT

My 17' Standard Grumman was new in 1969 or 1970.  It has a small oval
plate on the bow deck (that's the flat triangular piece on top in front)
with serial number 5623-GP-5-17.  The 5623 is also stamped on a rectangular
plate attached to the stern bulkhead (that's the vertical rounded piece
at the back that keeps the foam flotation in the end of the canoe).
Are you sure your serial number is 820-G-51-7 and not 820-G-5-17?  I always
thought the 17 part reflected the length.

Someone borrowed my Grumman in 1971 and took it to an Ohio state park.
It came back with registration numbers and a report that it was required.
Numbers were not (and still aren't) required in Pennsylvania
So your assumption that the boat wasn't used is probably good for Ohio
back to at least 1971.

If the canoe is in new condition, $250 is a very good price.  Current
list is close to $1000, and I've been asking $250 for my other Grumman,
a fairly battered whitewater model with a couple of patches of about the 
same vintage as my standard.

Here are three hints that may help you date the canoe.

First, the wide ends of my decks are straight.  If memory serves me well,
older Grummans had graceful curves at the wide ends of their decks. Sorry,
I don't know how much before 1969 that change was made, but I think it
was at least a couple of years.

Second, mine has round blue and yellow Grumman decals on the end.  
Sometime during the late 70s or early 80s they changed the logo to a much 
more stylized eagle in blue and white; the decal got straight sides (5?).
Also they started adding the logo and a stripe in blue in the middle of
the canoe sometime around then.

Third, the rectangular plate in the stern is the official capacity plate.
These may not appear on earlier boats, as they respond to a requirement to
show the official capacity of the canoe in order to discourage overloading.
Boating industry people might be able to recall when this requirement was
instituted.

By the way, a paddler with good intermediate skills can run an aluminum
canoe in Class III water and an expert can run heavier water.  (Don't forget
the flotation!  I spent a lot of time in the early 70s standing hip-deep
in cold water pushing aluminum canoes off rocks.)  Mostly people have
gone to plastic for whitewater because it's more forgiving, but if you get
some training you can have a perfectly lovely time on the class I-II water
you'll find all over Ohio.

Your net address is Case Western, which suggests you're near Cleveland.
I recommend that you hook up with the Keelhaulers.  They offer training,
and there's an associated store where you can get good advice and accessories.

Have fun!

Mary Shaw
From: Christic Institute <christic@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Date: 10 Oct 92 12:47 PDT
Subject: Re: hot weather gear
Nf-ID: #R:ldcepnINNdqc@exodus.eng.sun.com:194816312:cdp:1450000012:000:244
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!christic    Oct 10 12:47:00 1992


In the Fall 1992 issue of _Sea Kayaker_ there are ads on p. 57 and
the order form between pp. 60 and 61 for a light nylon long-sleeved
shirt for sun protection.  The shirt costs rather a lot--$63.00--and
can be ordered from the magazine.

Andy

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: hudson@cs.umass.edu (Rick Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Deerfield
Reply-To: hudson@cs.umass.edu
Organization: Dept of Comp and Info Sci, Univ of Mass (Amherst)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:36:29 GMT

>>>>> On 8 Oct 92 17:22:44 GMT, luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) said:
DN> Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.180.3.20

DN> I have a friend going to the Deerfield on Saturday for a scheduled release. 
DN> She has some information but nothing specific.  For instance, how does the 
DN> size of the release effect the run?

I assume you mean the Monroe Bridge section. The typical release this year is
between 800 cfs and 900 cfs. 900 is better, easier, less rock, cleaner slots
etc. Call (413) 625-8414 after 5 PM the day before the release to get the next
days release level and time. The water takes some time to get from the dam to
the put in (between 20 minutes and 1 hour). It isn't an exact science, both
the power company and the boaters are making honest attempts to understand
what is going on.

Also FLOW wants to thank all the boaters for leaving as few cars as possible
at the put in. If we can get through the next couple of weeks with no problems
we should have a new put in at the dam next year with a parking lot.

FERC relicencing negotiations for a long term schedules is still ongoing.
- Rick
--

                Richard L. Hudson, Research Associate
                University Computing Services
                Lederle Graduate Research Center
                University of Massachusetts
                Amherst, MA  01003
                (413) 545-1220; Hudson@cs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jerryk@col.hp.com (Jerry Kinsley)
Subject: Re: Help... CKS Phone # Needed Fast!
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:59:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

From May 92 Canoe

Stolquist
800-535-3565
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Subject: Rowing canoes
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 12:27:39 GMT

I own a Old Town Penobscot 16' ABS canoe. A few years ago I purchased a
rowing frame that sets on top of the gunwales. It has a sliding seat and
uses 7.5' oars. I is called A-ROW-BIC and was hade by a motorcycle 
accessories factory in Ct. It can be used indoors in the winter as an
exercise machine also.

It works really well. It is quite fast and good exercise. When rowed solo I
have no problem keeping up with kayaks. In a sleeker canoe it whould be
quite fast.

I have seen rowing attachments in the back of canoe magazine but none
with a sliding seat. I don't know if the A-ROW-BIC is still made.
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Help... CKS Phone # Needed Fast!
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:29:42 GMT
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Distribution: na
Organization: Columbia University


	Given that some motherfu^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H person just stole a bunch of
	my boating gear, I need to replace some of it quick (I have to be back
	on the water in 10 days!).

	If someone out there has Colorado Kayak Supply's phone number, could
	they please post it or e-mail it? I am looking for a dry-top (had
	the Stohlquist insignia on it, but they're the same, right?) that
	I haven't found in the NOC catalog, the NWRS catalog, or Wyoming
	River Raiders. If anyone knows another place to call and ask, please
	let me know (it was their dry-top that had a fleece lined collar around
	the neck gasket, among other nice qualities).

	Thanks a lot...

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |    NYC, NY.|
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Yough Boycott/Protest
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:34:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <1992Oct7.224957.459@news.columbia.edu> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
>	Anyone know if people are still boycotting/protesting against the
>user fees on the Yough (in PA, ya know)? I'm going over there this weekend
>and was wondering what to expect.

Yes, we are -- at least, some of us are.  Probably the best place to
drop by to find out the current state of affairs would be Riversport
in Confluence; stop by their store and they can fill you in on the
status of things.

---Rsk
From: atb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Brown)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:50:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle



just got back from the westwater zoo from last weekend (oct10,11).
still pretty much a zoo.   the weather was about as good as you could
expect for october.  must have been about 70-80 degrees, water at 3200cfs,
several hundred boaters.  perfect.  reminded me of the ocoee on the weekend.

for those of you thinking about squirting this run ... do it.  the canyon
has some great whirlpools for all kinds of mystery moves, meltdowns & rockets
moves.  most of the popular surface boat play spots had lines about 10 deep
in them, but the squirt play spots were clean.

fun item:  get in a little early and eat lunch at skull.  the carnage is
most entertaining.

best skull run by a kayak:  squirt boat enters the rapid, gets backendered
     in the first hole, rolls and manages to surf the hole just above skull,
     peels to the left and misses the hole completely.

best skull run by a non-kayak:  someone was paddling this hard boat down abouta
     the size of a bathtub.  looked like the dingy off of a sailboat.  anyway,
     she hit the first hole above skull and dropped both of her oars.  heading 
     directly for the hole she clenched the gunwalls tightly, only to miss the 
     hole completely on the right.

best squirt rapid:  tunnel falls.  this rapid consists of two monster rocks
     that constricts the river to about a 20' opening.  the river probably
     drops 4 or 5 feet.  on the left side of the chute is a boiling, nasty hole.
     drop the squirt boat in the seam between the hole and the main chute.
     holy smokes, meltdown city!  you'll proably pop-up about 20' downstream.
     fun fun fun fun fun!

low point:  6 mile of flatwater past last chance.  getting passed by a
     15 year old girl (and everyone else) on the flat water.

oh well, got to get chow down on some advil.

andy "spin, spin, spin" brown
From: msc9315@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: paddling to eternity
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:58:31 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

the journey is the destination
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: hot weather gear
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:08:55 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

This year I decided to give up using sunblock, and wear full-body
clothing instead.  In moderate weather a wetsuit plus long-sleeve
lightweight polypro sweater is fine.  But for hot weather I still
haven't found a good combination.  I tried lightweight cotton pants,
but they can be dangerous in a swim.  Then I saw photos of a Texas
long-distance canoe race, where everybody was wearing white tights.
Sure enough, they work great, although people might stare at you.
I got mine from LL Bean (now on sale).

However, I still haven't found a good shirt.  I tried a long-sleeve
polo shirt, but the sleeves feel baggy and heavy during a swim.  I
also tried a long-sleeve seersucker dress shirt, but didn't find it 
particularly cool, plus the sleeves bind up during a swim.  So I'm
left with lightweight polypro, which feels hot, especially with the
neck zipped up.  Can anyone suggest a better hot-weather shirt that
covers the arms and neck?

By the way, REI now sells a long-sleeve mesh shirt, which is great
for hiking (but it doesn't cover the neck).  They call it APT for
accelerated perspiration transport.  It's ideal for hiking because
moisture disappears rapidly, so when you reach the summit and put on
your windbreaker, you're instantly warm.  But for watersports, where
being dry is not a survival issue, cotton mesh feels much cooler.
When you feel heatstroke approaching, you just dip it in the water.
From: guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Help, strange tiller action
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:15:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T

guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:

>paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) writes:


>>	I'm hoping that a few will take a shot at this one, I'm out of
>>	theorys. Sailing on a friends Venture 224 last week, I noticed
>>	that starting at about 3 knots the tiller started to oscilate
>>	or shake slowly from port to starbd. As the boat picked up more 
>>	speed this continued and the freq. incresed. This is not a violent
>>	movement but is very annoying. 

>>	Second question. One his main the luff has slugs for ease of 
>>	up and down. But the foot is bolt rope. When he has to reef
>>	the tyes are around the sail and the boom. Sail shape remains
>>	good. He asked me why do all the books say not to tye around 
>>	boom.                  

>>	Any and all comments welcome, Thanks

I wrote:
>I have seen similar behavior if you pick up weeks on the rudder.

I write some more:			     ^^^^ weeds
Maybe I can get some extra vacation this way. :-)

This can also be related to junk on the centerboard or keel.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: marc@watson.ibm.com (Marc Auslander)
Subject: Re: GPS
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:26:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Hawthorne, New York

Unless the defense establishment caves on selective availability, the
Coast Guard will almost certainly install differential GPS.  It is
already experimenting with this service.  Differential will give
something like 10 meter accuracy (this is from memory, may be off)
instead of the 100 meter degraded performance with SA.

Thus, if you buy a GPS without a differential receiver compatible with
what the Coast Guard is doing, you're going to want to replace it.
But I know of no receiver now available which fits this bill - at
least none at a sensible price.

So I say wait if you can - GPS with differential will be a real improvement.

(By the way, 100 meters is enough to be out of sight of a bouy in the
kind of fog we get in the North East now and again.)
--


Marc Auslander       (IBM)<marc@marc.watson.ibm.com>      914 784-6699
                     (Internet)<marc@watson.ibm.com>
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Force 5 questions
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:35:45 GMT
Organization: I don't speak for them anyway.

Haven't been around here for awhile.  The San Juan is gone (sold to 
handle a land purchase).  But my good luck seems to be holding out
as a friend has given to me (permanent loan until I pay them the sum
of $500.00 for it), a 1974, blue and white Force 5, with trailer.

Anyone wanna pass along some information about the boat?  I'm not really
interested in racing it at this time, but could use any information I
can get.  E-mail or post.

Much adTHANKSvance,




     Donn Pedro ....................................dfpedro@uswnvg.com

		     There are no ordinary moments.
From: nick@cs.uwa.oz.au (Nick Lewins)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: 5 sailing questions
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:28:15 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.

In <JAMESM.92Oct13164044@lunch.austin.ibm.com> jamesm@lunch.austin.ibm.com (James Miller) writes:
>sailing question 5

>Another fairly recent fad in hull designs from our Cup racing guys is the
>winged keel.  (Weren't some people here talking about having their cruisers
>retrofitted with these?)  It seems that this might actually do some good when
>sailing *off* the wind (ddw to a broad reach), but wouldn't it merely increase
>drag when sailing into the wind (beam reach to close-hauled), when the boat is
>heeled over?  If this is the tradeoff, how close is it?  Is there a good
>writeup on it anywhere?

As Al Bowers suggests, winged keels assist mostly in upwind sailing.
They reduce drag and, to a somewhat lesser extent, increase righting
moment.  However, in "Born to Win", John Betrand's account of the '83
AC campaign, Bertrand goes to great lengths to emphasise that the
winged keel is not the go-fast machine that we all think it is.  He
claims that the winged keel made Australia II faster upwind in
moderate breeze only.  In all other conditions and legs of sailing, it
either had no effect or made the boat slower than its competition.  He
concludes that the major (tactical) effect of the winged keel on
Australia II was the advantage gained while tacking.  It seems the
keel allowed the boat to tack faster than its competition, which is a
major plus in match racing.

An interesting book, "Born to Win".  The message seems to be that John
Bertrand was destined to win the AC (hence the name of the book), and
that superior preparation and crewwork was what won the series - not
the winged keel, the abilities of which were built up as a
psychological weapon.

Nick.
Newsgroups: rec.boats