HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: 12 Apr 92 05:18:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

> Alex Shvartsman:
>And here's a joke that I suspect will have its best effect on those who
>were brought up in the xUSSR and are familiar with WWII legacy:
>
>	A huge German bangs on the door of a Russian peasant house.
                                             ~~~~~~~
>	An old woman fearfully opens the door. The huge German yells:
>	"Matka! Kurka! Mleko!" The woman replies in tears: "Herr German,
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>	we have no chickens and no milk, we are starving ourselves."
>	The German replies: "I _brought_ kurka and mleko."
>

  Knowing the "scientific" background of Alex Shvarstman it's
not surprising that according his version the "huge German"
used Ukrainian words "matka", etc to address a Russian peasant.
More likely though is that Alex substituted "Ukrainian peasant"
with "Russian peasant" in order to not abuse his (Alex's)
nationalistic feelings.

>And finally a true story:
>
>	After the earthquake in Armenia a couple of years ago, many
>	international resque teams worked on saving the survivors
>	from the ruins of collapsed buildings. A German team found
>	a 10 year old girl who survivied with barely a scratch. After
>	the Germans pulled her out of wreckage, the girl, who speaks
>	no German, recognized the German speech, became hysterical,
>	raised her hands, and kept repeating: "Hande hoch!"
>
>Alex

  This "true" (according to Alex) story doesn't bear ANY resemblance
to truth to those who lived in Sovok. Especially it looks just
a product of Alex's ill imagination when it concerns Armenia,
which was never occupied by Germany. I doubt though that
such "true" story could be ever (after 50 years since WWII)
possible even in BeloRussia Russia or Ukraine.
S.V.

  Good luck to great scientists.
From: belaya@PX4.STFX.CA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: meaningsovok
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:39:04 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

My version of the meaning "sovok".

"SOVOK" had two basic meaning in modern Russian:
    -dustpan
    -special kind of the shovel

From the middle of eighties "sovek" acquired third offencetive meaning.
It's misshapen "sovetskii"(soveit one) and mean any  soviet
producted thing.

It propagates inside ex-USSR very quickly as new abusive word over the
last 3-4 years.
Certainly it's hard offence (between xUSSR people too,Vadik Ti ne prav).
It means "tipical soviet person",which conceived and accumuleted all
ideas and principals of the soviet propogande."Sovok" believes to all
lie,which this propogande crowded poor head of the average soviet
people.
Special scornful sense is based on the word play."Sovok,sovkovaia
lopata" is the particular kind of the shovel used at the hard land-diged
work.So it stress extrimly primitive level of "sovok".
Its connection with the dustpan stress the garbage at sovok head.

As I undestood,here "sovok" has the forth meaning  - the state,ex-USSR.
This meaning is the invention
of the networker and emmigreiters.Inside ex-USSR this meaning does
not use.
Vic.Levadniy
From: 160955r@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Human rights evaluation of the former USSR republics
Date: 5 Apr 92 09:16:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: garnet.9204050916.AA20344
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Man, you got a thing about enjoying your day , drinking coffee while
reading the net news..However: in your last mail to me (about coffee
of course) you mentioned something about your work. Was it evaluating
algorithms? I need to talk to/employ somebody that could compactly write
caching algoriths for DOS platforms. If interested semn me e-mail.

Cheers!


--
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:3253 soc.culture.turkish:3987 talk.politics.mideast:10331
From: madjdsad@phakt.usc.edu (Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: The Kurdish Autonimous Region
Date: 6 Apr 1992 23:44:36 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu



In soc.culture.turkish KA506@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Kadir AYDIN) writes:

>Zagros Madja-Sadjani writes;

>>The Kurdish Population is 26,000,000+

>>Kurds/Turkey: 12,000,000+

>Totally wrong. Can you give me referances for this number? Acording to
>PCGLOBE INC, 1991, USA, the Kurdish population in Turkiye is 11%. The
>population of Turkiye is 57,000,000 and according to this source the
>number of Kurds in Turkiye is 6,270,000. It is half of your number.

>Regards,

>Kadir AYDIN
>University of Liverpool,
>ENGLAND/UK

Dear Sir, don't say I am totally wrong unless you read a number of sources.
Here are some more for you to chew your brains out on:


(1) The Economist, June 24, 1989, p. 68 "The State that Never Was"
    Kurds in Turkey -- 10 million

(2) New York Times International November 3, 1989 "For Turkey and Kurds,
    Fragile Reconciliation"  
    Kurds in Turkey number 8 to 10 million

(3) Humanitas, number 1 (1989) "A Divided and Endangered People" 
    Kurds in Turkey number 11 million

(4) San Francisco Examiner, September 7, 1988 "Kurds link illness to poison
    gas" -- 10 million Kurds

(5) The New York Times September 7, 1988."Turkey Moves out 2,000 Iraqi Kurds:
    Transfer to Iran Puts Fate of Other Refugees in Doubt"  
    The Kurds in Turkey number 8 million

(6) New Statesman and Society, October 20, 1989. "Torch of Freedom" 
    Kurds number about 19% of the population of Turkey. i.e. about 11.5 million.

(7) The Times of London, June 16, 1989 "KURDISH SOLUTIONS" Kurds in Turkey 
    number 10 million

(8) Sanity, November 1988 "Halabja and after" Kurds in Turkey, 8 million

Now if we throw in the 1 to 2 MILLION Kurds who have fled across the border
to Turkey from Iraq in the last two years, plus figure in a minor rise in
population we will come to the following figures : 9.2 - 13.8 million Kurds.

Now show me eight more sources to back up YOUR claims.

"The Kurds have no friends."

Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi
Azadi Kurdistan
From: VADIM@ohstpy.bitnet
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:49:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>


  I'm trying to explain to outdated Mihailina why the COBOK term MAY
BE offensive if it's used by non-sovok. This is hard task to do
by the way. I personally think that possible offense is connected
with implicit complex of "unperfectness" ( or smth like that )
that COBOK feels now. I repeat that this complex is implicit in the
most cases. Again I repeat that something similar you can observe
in a black man in the USA : there is no unequality between white
and black,but white is "more equal" then a black.
  Another reason why sovok may be offensive word is that sovok with
respect to xUSSR is somewhat disrespective title. You may see now that
it is the same disrespect then you call xUSSR citizen using COBOK.
I repeat that it is acceptable among sovkov themselves but if an
American insists on using COBOK it may cause not good feelings
in russians.
P.S. If former sovok, but now US citizen or Legal Rezident use
     Is going to use these term among russians, he must be aware
     of the fact that there is big probability to "poluchit pizdy'
     chtob ne vyebyvalsya"
Take care,
Vadick
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("A. Allister Shvartsman, EMF, LKG2-2/T2,
              226-5350 12-Apr-1992 2248")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: RE: Vizniuk vs. Russkaja Mysl'
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:51:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: enet-gw.9204130251.AA20125
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

RE: Vizniuk's latest

>Dear Alex I have no doubts about your ability to read newspapers and reproduce
>the newspaper articles, no matter how stupid those articles are. However I have
>some doubts about your ability to make out anything reasonable from all those
>books and newspapers you read, or at least something that would not contradict
>common sense. After living that would not contradict common sense. While living
>in Sovok I have met dozens if not hundreds of "scientists" in "humanities" such
>as "History of CPSU", "Historical Materialism", "Scientific Comminism" whose
>major work actually was to adjust the history, economics, etc courses according
>to political views of their bosses. Most of those "scientists" (at least in
>PhysTech where I studied) were pretty well-educated people, who read no less
>books than you did, dear Alex. Thus I had some opportunity to learn how to
>distingish between over-educated shitheads and simply sober-minded persons.
>Having read your postings, dear Alex, I got an opinion that you are doing
>essentially the same kind of things those Sovok "scientists" did - rewriting
>the history in accordance with political views either yours, or those who pay
>you. Ungrateful work. You are neither first, nor last. S.V.

Blah-blah-blah. Blah-blah-blah. Ad hominem BS-BS-BS. Boooooring!

Post some facts, Vizniuk, or go back to monitoring Russian TV.

Alex
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:02:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: gtech.1992Apr13.200210.1191
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI

In article <1992Apr13.182930.8291@dxcern.cern.ch> GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:
>
>So, I repeat that SOVOK is an  example of slang, the more, it is an example
>of BAD slang which was originated in the non-intelligent media.

As far as I know SOVOK was used by hard currency whores
( _valutnye _prositutki) talking about  xUSSR citizens. 


Aleksey Y. Romanov
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Odojevski's "Our response"
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:29:50 GMT

In article <9204100247.AA18522@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet> writes:
>
>Alex
>
>PS Not much changed since 1826 wrt Russian Post. It is still more
>   reliable to send letters by human carriers :-)

In some Sovok's "countries" like e.g. Ukraine it's even worse...
S.V.


P.S. Before 1917 Russian Post services were no worse than todays America's
regular mail.
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("A. Allister Shvartsman, EMF, LKG2-2/T2,
              226-5350 11-Apr-1992 1031")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: What if ...
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:06:36 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

>> [What] would have happened if the Red Army did not defeat Hitler?

I usually avoid historical "what if" discussions, but in this case
a joke told by a recent arrival from Russia comes to mind:

	A Soviet WWII veteran sporting several rows of medals enters a bar
	in St. Petersburg and asks for a beer. The bartender replies:
	"We have no beer!" The veteran get enraged and produces the standard
	Soviet monologue: "What is this country becoming?! blah-blah ...
	I defended Leningrad! I shed my blood for this country!
	And now there's no beer!"

	The bartender: "It's all your fault! If it were not for you,
	we would be all sipping German beer now!"

And here's a joke that I suspect will have its best effect on those who
were brought up in the xUSSR and are familiar with WWII legacy:

	A huge German bangs on the door of a Russian peasant house.
	An old woman fearfully opens the door. The huge German yells:
	"Matka! Kurka! Mleko!" The woman replies in tears: "Herr German,
	we have no chickens and no milk, we are starving ourselves."
	The German replies: "I _brought_ kurka and mleko."

And finally a true story:

	After the earthquake in Armenia a couple of years ago, many
	international resque teams worked on saving the survivors
	from the ruins of collapsed buildings. A German team found
	a 10 year old girl who survivied with barely a scratch. After
	the Germans pulled her out of wreckage, the girl, who speaks
	no German, recognized the German speech, became hysterical,
	raised her hands, and kept repeating: "Hande hoch!"

Alex
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: Kravchuk's referendum
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:29:29 GMT

In article <9204052004.AA14695@china.mps.ohio-state.edu> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet> writes:
>So I stay for my assertion that Ukraine was (and, especially
>now, IS) exclusively the communists's creature.
>S.V.

Now if your comment were true, why would those I've had contact
within today's Ukraine, and the hundreds of Ukrainians I've known
who escaped from the communists following the 2nd world war have
all unanimously exhibited a hatred of communism.  Why was my father
so emphatically anti-communist?  Perhaps he and the others knew
something you don't, or choose to ignore?

I grew up in Canada, singing "Shche Ne Umerla Ukrayina", and the
Ukrainian flag was for us, and is now, most certainly sky-blue
over wheat-gold, _without_ the communist emblem.
--
[mail, mail, go away....fill up my filesystem some other day.]
[pick a hat, pick a site.   Notoriously:  edhew@xenitec.on.ca]
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: Odojevski's "Our response"
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 07:26:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.132950.20864@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Viznyuk) writes:
>P.S. Before 1917 Russian Post services were no worse than todays America's
>regular mail.

Which, by direct inference, would have been superior to today's
Canada Post.  All is relative, and some things only get worse.
--
[mail, mail, go away....fill up my filesystem some other day.]
[pick a hat, pick a site.   Notoriously:  edhew@xenitec.on.ca]
From: vadim@ldgo.columbia.edu (vadim levin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Capitalist restoration in the USSR
Summary: on marxist theories...
Keywords: marxism
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:22:29 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

> would have happened if the Red Army did not defeat Hitler?

It was quite a popular idea in Moscow in the year I left it (1988)
that without Uncle Joe and the terror his ( and communists' in general)
image imposed on the western world the rise of fascism in Germany 
could have been avoided. I can't back this statement by quotes and references,
but to the best of my "rememberance' ideas like that usually went 
hand in hand with criticizms of Stalin's "military genius".

Since both the Red Army and the "military genius" heading it are direct
results of marxist experiments in Russia, I find it hard to access what is
better : to have the Red Army that defeats Hitler AND the "genius of all times
and nations" or to have none of the above ( and a possibility of not having Hitler
either.

> This article expresses strictly my views, not my employer's.
vadim levin
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: bohdan@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (bohdan.l.bodnar)
Subject: A lexicon...(draft version)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:36:29 GMT
Keywords: Homo Sovieticus, SovietEnglish-English 



The large cultural gulf between a Westerner and a Homo Sovieticus
ensures that they are not using the same language even if they
are both communicating in English. Thus, it may be useful to compile the
first ever SovietEnglish-English lexicon (in the context presented here, this
lexicon may actually be considered to be a list of morphemes that
are appropriate for this newsgroup).  Here is a start:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

bourgeois (adj) - West European and North American democrat.

entire progressive mankind, the (n expr) - the followers of Communist doctrine.

falsification (n) - a fact that is not supported by Communist ideology.

fascist (n) - (1) follower of Mussolini, Hitler, or of any other
   non-Soviet leader of similar ilk, (2) any non-ethnic-Russian or
   ex-Soviet who does not want his country to be ruled from Russia

imperialist (n) - (1) a Westerner who believes that Russia should not
   rule other countries against their will, (2) any non-ethnic-Russian
   ex-Soviet who does not want his country to be ruled from Russia

nationalist (n) - any non-ethnic-Russian ex-Soviet who does not
   want his country to be ruled from Russia

nazi (n) - (1) adherent of the views of Adolf Hitler, (2) anybody
   who opposed Stalin in 1933-1945, (3) any non-ethnic-Russian or
   ex-Soviet who does not want his country to be ruled from Russia

peace in the entire world (n exp) - Communist domination of the world.

russophile (n) - anybody who believes that the Russian government should
           have jurisdiction beyond the current boundaries of the Russian
	   Federation.

russophobe (n) - anybody who believes that the Russian government should
           not have any jurisdiction beyond the current boundaries
           of the Russian Federation.

sectants (n) - non-Orthodox Christians and Orthodox Christians who do not
           accept the Moscow Patriarchate.  See "nationalist," etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could go on;  however, the most challenging task is to separate the
Soviet terminology that has become obsolete from the terms the persist
in their Soviet guise.

If you have any "definitions" which can be used in polite company and are
appropriate for this lexicon, please feel free to e-mail them to me.

Cordially,

Dr. Bohdan Bodnar
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
USA
From: masjpf@gdt.bath.ac.uk (J P Fitch)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Replies to hasan.b.mutlu
Summary: limiting bandwidth and time
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:02:51 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

Just a plea.... if anyone replies to a message from hasan.b.mutlu
could they find some way to indicate this in the subject?  I have
managed to arrange to kill messages from him (local record only 25 or
so) but now I am faced with all these replies, which include
quotations from all this stuff.  
  Alternatively, could some guru explain how to fix my mail reader (I
use GNUS) to kill them all as well (without killing the news of the
kill records)?
  
==John
From: bohdan@ihlpf.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Human rights evaluation of the former USSR republics
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:19:34 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>
Organization: AT&T

Well, let's see...since I enjoy drinking coffee, and read net"news" in order to
be amused, you may be referring to me!  My work usually entails generating
mathematical models of processors, memories (e.g., cache memories), etc.  Still
want to chat?

Cordially,

Bohdan Bodnar

P.S.  Yes, the "Dr." part is "for real":  PhD EE
From: KOROTKOV@auducvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:27:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>


        All the translations are correct but they did not explain the
derivation of the word in terms of its application to the name of the
country. The point is that here we deal with the game of words that is
alliteration. If you take another look at the names Sovetskii and Sovok,
you'll see that two first sillables are simular - Sov... . Russians
have an ironic arrangement of mind (or at least some of them), and they
are very inventive in this regard. Thus gradually the official name of
the country was substituted with the nickname in order to stress an ironic
attitude to everything belonging to the Soviet establishment. By using this
nickname a speaker lets you know that he considers the topic as a rubbish one
(to a certain extent, of course), since he does not take "Sovietskoe"
seriously.
From: viznyuk@PACIFIC.MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovoks b/w list
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:38:54 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

>From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
>
> While I have strongly criticized Estonia's citizenship law, I have
> to disagree violently against calling Estonia semi-fascist.
>
> But then again, we all know that Viznyuk seldom knows what he is
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~
> talking about, don't we? Informed nationalist fanatics can be a
> pain to read, but uninformed ones are definitely worse.

  Once you imagined yourself as a Net-Farther of this list and
started speaking of yourself in plural, should I expect you to
answer me what "you all" consider as a "true" semi-facist state
and what "simply" facist ? If "you all" think that forced deportations,
depriving of rights to vote, and work in a country where the given
people were born are the sure signs of democracy (or may be
Estonian type democracy) then what do you think of Nazi type of
democracy, Sovok's type of democracy, etc ?   Ah, Misters Sommarskoges ?
S.V.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Sovok's black/white list
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:24:15 GMT

In article <1115@my.sm.luth.se> medev@sm.luth.se (Alexander Medvedev) writes:
>ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>
>
>>Jarmo Ryyti writes,
>>Dear S.V.,
>>~~~~u~~~~~~~~~~
>I've never heard about Swedish Lapps being referred to as immigrants in Sweden.
>Have you?
>
They have had very a low status in Sweden regarding the use of their language.
In CSCE Meeting 1992 is going on in Helsinki and since 1975 Sweden has had an 
quite official attitude not having any minority problems.
>>There are no Sweden -wide Finnish speaking TV and radio servide for the
>>Finnnish minority in Sweden. Estonian policy is much milder even in this sence
>> compared  to Sweden.
>I wonder how can I watch Finnish TV every day up here in Lule\aa? I might be the
>only one who can do it in Sweden. Moreover, I have two Finnish radio channels
>carried by Televerket, what's more? O'K we have a Finnish day-care center
>just nearby to my house and the Finnish-speaking guys who attend the same
>class as my kid does, have a special Finnish-speaking teacher. You are right that
>there is no Finnish University in Sweden ( like say Abo Akademi in Finland,
>where all instruction is in Swedish), but it doesn't mean that the Finnish
>language is somewhat oppressed here now. However, it might be so, that it 
>had been oppressed before.

I mean by Finnish Tv and radio a TV and radio produced by the Sweden
in Sweden (compare Finland)
Swedish radio and tv has a very poor service for the fiinnish speaking finns.

>
>>Let us look at Sweden and compare her policy still: a foreigner does not
>>get automatically a right to vote in Sweden. A foreign citizen have to live
>>certain time in order to apply citizenship. And it is not given automatically.
>>leave by russians and how was the situation let us say two years ago regarding
>>human rights in Estonia. I think they have done much progres in 2 years
>>than XSU did in 50 years. Estonian are those to admire in their situation.
>Can you tell me please, do you (a Finn) need an invitation from democratic 
>Estonia to get an Estonian visa or what?
>>Regards,
>>Jarmo Ryyti
>>Suomi
>
>All the best,
>						Alexander Medvedev
>						Sverige

Dear Alexander,
I am going to Estonia in the summer by a mountain bike like previous year
I was in Karelia.
To get a visa there one has to have an accommodation but no invitation as far
as I understand. Then if no accommodation is to show there has to
be an invitation. Day- trips are without visa, also to SPb from Helsinki
by a boat.
I think during past two years travelling is much much more free than
earlier during the time the russians were as bosses in xsu.
Totally different people can come now over from russia than earlier to Finland.
You just have to have to have a certain sum of money to prove that you can
live in finland during your visit or an invitation from finland.
regards,
jarmo



Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet