HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bruce@utafll.uta.edu (Bruce Samuelson)
Subject: ST80 is getting bigger
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:46:35 GMT

Here are some trends in ST80. I can't vouch for the accuracy of all
the numbers, but I think if any are wrong, they're at least pretty
close. They're based on timestamps and sizes of files/directories on
my systems.

version  date    MB       MB      MB     number    full name
                 sources* extra#  image% classes

ST 2.5   ?       2.2      0.9     1.5    ?         Smalltalk
OW 4.0   Oct 90  2.5      1.0     1.3    359       ObjectWorks\Smalltalk
OW 4.1   May 92  2.9      ?       1.6    395       ObjectWorks\Smalltalk
VW 1.0   Oct 92  4.7      1.0     2.7    693       VisualWorks

(*) st80.sources or some name variant
(#) Extra code for filing in such as utilities, ObjectKit/APOK, demos,
tutorial, etc.
(%) st80.im or some name variant

Yesterday I installed ParcPlace's VisualWorks 1.0, which is basically
ObjectWorks 4.1 bundled with a lot of extra classes (298 extra, by my
count). Three things struck me: (1) The installation was thankfully
easy; (2) PPS added a lot of new functionality; (3) Smalltalk grew A
LOT in the new VisualWorks product.

There's a beefed up external interface to C, classes for accessing
external databases, better (though still incomplete) support for
native look & feel, and a new user interface builder that should
considerably simplify creating writing applications.

However, I find the new material rather daunting to digest, and I've
been programming in Smalltalk for several years. I wonder how
intimidated a newcomer will be in trying to get on top of this class
library. Will they have time to learn MVC programming, or is that
something to be used by the UI builder but not by programmers?

Perhaps the next steps in Smalltalk's evolution should include: (1)
support for beginners to browse useful subsets of Smalltalk while
postponing exposure to some of the gore; (2) a better tutorial; (3)
movement towards more modularity somehow--sooner or later, the large,
monolithic image will become unwieldy; (4) a package mechanism or
something to partition the name space of classes and selectors; (5)
performance enhancements.

Regarding performance, my informal impression in working with all the
products from version 2.3 onwards is that performance in the latest
release is roughly where it stood in version 2.3. Garbage collection
is more sophisticated, memory management is more user tuneable, and
dynamic translation is in place.  But Smalltalk-80 is still running at
10-20% of C.

What would you users think if ParcPlace gave us a chance to catch our
breath by focusing on enhancements to performance rather than
functionality in the next release?

I've only played with the new interface builder for a couple hours. I
like what I see so far. Can anyone offer us a review who has had more
time to work with it?
-- 
**********************************************************
* Bruce Samuelson	Department of Linguistics	 *
* bruce@ling.uta.edu	University of Texas at Arlington *
**********************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: hasko@heeg.de (Hasko Heinecke)
Subject: Re: sinus Pi <> 0 in OW
Organization: Georg Heeg Objektorientierte Systeme, Dortmund, FRG
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:03:26 GMT

In article <Bz9CGK.5pt@vtm.be> hein@vtm.be writes:
>I was playing around in OW/ST 4.1 and found out that:
>
>- there exists a class variable Pi in both float and double
>- that Float pi sin evaluates to  -8.74228e-8
>- that Double pi sin evaluates to  1.2246063538224d-16
>
>while both these values are close to zero, none of them is exacly
>zero. I know that these values can be made zero simply by evaluating
>Float pi sin roundedTo: 2,
>or so, but by defining Pi as a constant, I think it should behave like
>the number pi, and so I expect that both Float pi sin AND Double pi sin
>should always evaluate to zero.
>
>Does anyone disagree? 

It depends. When you say "by defining Pi as a constant" you're right:
Pi sin should evaluate to zero. But then, Float pi, and Double pi are
simply messages that return approximations of pi using the
corresponding class, but not pi itself. Pi could be implemented as a
metanumber using symbolic arithmetic. How would you implement
Fraction pi?

The solution to your problem is to allow some degree of inaccuracy,
just like your roudedTo: 2 "fix." As long as there's no exact
representation for irrational numbers in Smalltalk, it's only a
question of where to put the inaccuracy, and how much inaccuracy
is tolerable. The reason why pocket calculators always return zero
when you type Pi sin is:  they calculate more accurate than they
admit, i.e. they round their results to the size of the display,
but they calculate two digits more.

Hasko

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Hasko Heinecke @ Georg Heeg Objektorientierte Systeme |
| I _never_ mean what I say - and nobody else does...   |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
From: frobozz@gorn.echo.com (jordan bortz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Tigre adds services component
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:15:52 GMT
Organization: The Planet Gorn

Tigre Object Systems now provides training and consulting services in the
area of OOA/OOD as well as Smalltalk mentoring and Consulting.  For more
information, please contact Jordan Bortz @ 408 426 5308.


-- 
----
Jordan Bortz, Tigre Object Systems, Inc.
tigre!jordan@ucscc.ucsc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: hein@vtm.be
Subject: sinus Pi <> 0 in OW
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:29:07 GMT
Organization: Vlaamse Televisie Maatschappij N.V.

I was playing around in OW/ST 4.1 and found out that:

- there exists a class variable Pi in both float and double
- that Float pi sin evaluates to  -8.74228e-8
- that Double pi sin evaluates to  1.2246063538224d-16

while both these values are close to zero, none of them is exacly
zero. I know that these values can be made zero simply by evaluating
Float pi sin roundedTo: 2,
or so, but by defining Pi as a constant, I think it should behave like
the number pi, and so I expect that both Float pi sin AND Double pi sin
should always evaluate to zero.

Does anyone disagree? 

-- 
______________________________________________________________________
Hein Saris
email: hein@vtm.be
applelink: VTM.SPRUYT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: johnson@cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson)
Subject: Re: Smalltalk Parser generator wanted (Tgen?)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:26:47 GMT

For T-gen, try anonymous ftp to st.cs.uiuc.edu in /pub/st80_r41.

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: SMALK@FINHUTC.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:22:16 EDT
From:         Jose Fernando Tepedino Martins <jftm@DI.UFPE.BR>
Subject: Re: Store image in disk ?

HI,
  In ST/V you can store an object into disk by filing out its "storeString"
representation, a string which results a copy of the original object when
submitted to the compiler. For example:
    | p |
       p := 3 @ 4.
        p storeString.  " results the string representing the object 'p' "
      Compiler evaluate: p storeString.  "results in a copy of 'p' "
  So all you have to do is  to store the 'storeString' representation in
a file and read it back and submit it to the 'Compiler' to get a copy of the ori
   ginal object. Please notice that the 'storeString' representation does not tr
   eat recursive objects. The 'storeString' sometimes does not generate an optim
   ized representation,
so sometimes it it recommended to build specific 'storeString' methods for bette
   r performance.

   I hope this may be helpful. If you need additional explanations or examples,
please send me an e-mail.

   Regards,
     Jose Fernando Tepedino
      (e-mail: jftm@di.ufpe.br)
     Departamento de Informatica
     Universidade Federal de Pernambuco
     Recife    Brasil
From: ecrosbie@swift.cs.tcd.ie
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Problems with scheduled window pp4.1
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:49:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Trinity College Dublin

I am trying to replace the composite component in a scheduled
window by another without closing the window. I have had some
success using the following code example. There are bugs however, 
the dependency mechanism does not work and some buttons that i've 
installed only work intermittently. Could anyone tell me what I'm
doing wrong?

ScheduledControllers activeController view component: 
	( self tempCompositeVariable)."new component"
ScheduledControllers activeController view flushCaches. 

Ed Crosbie,			Phone: 353-1-7021321
Dept of  Computer Science,	Email :  ecrosbie@cs.tcd.ie
Trinity College,
Dublin 2.
Ireland.
From: wbb@duke.cs.duke.edu (William)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Recommendations for Versions of SmallTalk, esp. w.r.t PROLOG
Keywords: prolog, smalltalk
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:51:28 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


I'm considering buying SmallTalk/V for my 386.  My biggest questions
are:

	1) How good is the PROLOG in it?  Will it do the things
	that other variants of PROLOG will, or is it not very
	useful?

	2) Is the Windows version worth the extra $200+?  Why?

	
Thanks for any opinions,

	Boyce
From: mdefelic@digi.lonestar.org (Mitch DeFelice)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Smalltalk/V for Sun (Sparc)
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:36:33 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

In article <1992Dec17.183053.17180@ntmtv> irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine) writes:
>|> Chuck Irvine (irvine@ntmtv.UUCP) wrote:
>|> > I vaguely seem to recall hearing something about Digitalk doing a port
>|> > of ST/V for the Sun Sparc. Does anyone know if there's any substance to
>|> > this? Any information is much appreciated. Thanks
>|> 
>|> I talked with Digitalk about two days ago (I wanted them to port to the NeXT)
>|> and they told me that they where making their first foray into the world of
>|> Unix and that, based on user demand, they were going for the IBM RS/6000!  No
>|> definite plans about further platforms.
>
Maybe Digitalk should take a look at IBM stock...
Its been getting slaughtered!  I don't know if I would
invest many man/woman hours in supporting an company
who is losing market share (in computer sales).

But Digitalk might be getting big bucks from IBM to
put Smalltalk up on RS/6000 if so, then the point is moot.


 -- Mitch De Felice --

P.S. Parc Place has a very good Smalltalk for SUN Sparc.
So maybe you should contact Parc Place for supporting
the NeXT system.

---------------------------------------------------------
Mitch De Felice                   
EMAIL: mdefelic@dsccc.com or mdefelic@digi.lonestar.org
       or !uunet!digi!mdefelic
*** Bulls Win, Bears Win, Hogs get Slaughtered ***
----------------------------------------------------------
From: chess@McRCIM.McGill.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: XeroxParc Smalltalk : Contact email
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:32:02 GMT
Organization: McGill Research Centre for  Intelligent Machines
Originator: chess@kadumu.mcrcim.mcgill.edu



I have tried to contact XeroxParc using: info@ParcPLace.com  :[ 
Is this account valid or is it never read.

I wanted to find out more about Smalltalk/V for Sun (Sparc). :-|

Any suggestions would be welcome .  :-)  


K.S
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
|	K.Sandrasegaran(Sandy)		|  Tel : (514) 398-7159 /398-5857 |
|	McGill Research Center for -    |  Fax : (514) 398-4470           |
|	  Intelligent Machines (McRCIM) |  email: chess@mcrcim.mcgill.edu |
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: Bug-Fixes for Digitalk products: where?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 11:46:12 GMT

marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann) writes:

> Is there any FTP-site (or e-Mail server), where I can get these
>bugfixes also? I bought products from Digitalk and not from CompuServe,
>

There is already a smalltalk archive site: st.cs.uiuc.edu

There is a directory for Digitalk software at this site: pub/st_v (?)

Though I haven't checked recently, there are not too many files in st_v.
Awhile back, I uploaded a .zip file with some changes for Window Builder.
I don't believe there have been too many updates from Digitalk itself.

I have had electronic communications with Dan Goldman on Digitalk's internet
presence.  The results of which have given me hope that Digitalk will eventually
have a direct presence on the net.  Don't hold your breath.  I believe that
they're scared they'll stretch their support staff too thin with another
support outlet.  I offered to be a conduit for their fixes getting to the net
archives, but the offer was declined with a thankyou.

In any case, I will endeavor to get all the fixes for V/Win and Window Builder
to the archives with in a week or so.  I'll also try and get Bill Voss, the
site maintainer, to put in some subdirectories (V/PM, V/Win, WB, etc.) so
that everything is easy to find.  Bill is usually receptive to these sorts
of things.

Please realize that the holidays are coming up fast and things may take some
time to get totally together.

-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com
From: jgs@funsys.se (Jan Gifvars)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: command line arguments
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:36:55 GMT
Reply-To: jgs@funsys.se
Organization: Enator Functional Systems AB.

Is it possible to retreive command line arguments in my smalltalk image ?
For example : 

$ st80 myImage.im textFile.doc

I just want to parse the commandline.

Thanks in advance.


Jan Gifvars 
ENATOR Functional Systems AB
Box 1213
S-16428 Kista
+46 08 7036200
jgs@funsys.se
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Digitalk Email address
From: alistair@myrddn.mits.com.au
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:12:01 +1000
Nntp-Posting-User: alistair

In article <1992Dec18.122607.29950@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>, 
dockx@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Jan Dockx) writes:
> Can anybody tell me Digitalk's Email address for commercial issues?

	info@digitalk.com
	sales@digitalk.com

Thanks,

Alistair Grant

Internet:     alistair@mits.com.au
Alternate:    alistair%mits.com.au@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: ae769@yfn.ysu.edu (Ritesh Patel)
Subject: Circular stack in Smalltalk?
Reply-To: ae769@yfn.ysu.edu (Ritesh Patel)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:51:10 GMT


I need help in implementing a circular stack in smalltalk. I have access
to a class called OrderedCollection. This type of stack is also
called double-ended queue. I am new to this language so please pardon my
ignorance.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Subject: Re: 3D Graphics Classes?
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 23:57:54 GMT

In article <6048@sumax.seattleu.edu> penning@sumax.seattleu.edu (Mat Penning)  
writes:
>>Does anyone know of a good 3D graphics package for SmallTalk? I need to do
>>a scatter plot, and also have a need for presentation graphics for doing bar
>>charts, graphs, pie charts, etc.

I second the motion.  Fuji...are you listening ?

(rumor has it they did some work like this)
--
Ronald Pomeroy		[Objective-Cruntime: [Smalltalk runtime]];
Advanced Micro Devices	[self dream-on];
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com (NeXTmail preferred)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: rontelta@fwi.uva.nl (Richard Ronteltap (I87))
Subject: Smalltalk Parser generator wanted (Tgen?)
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:39:07 GMT

Hi,

For my final study project (thesis?) I am suppost to write a prototype
implementation of an experimental OO database language called Goblin.

I would like to do it in Smalltalk, because every time I start something
in C++, I end up wanting tranquilizers after an hour or so.

I don't plan on spending much time on the parser generator. A ready-to-run
lex / yacc type thing would be very welcome. I recall that there was
something posted here a while ago called Tgen. Is this correct? Is it
public domain? Where can I get it?

Other commercial recommendations are welcome too.

Thanks,
Bye,
Richard
From: anthony@zone4.ocunix.on.ca (Anthony Lander)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: anything isKindOf: nil ==> true (Objectwork
Organization: Zone4
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 02:51:10 GMT

In article <knight.724345041@cunews> knight@mrco.carleton.ca (Alan Knight) writes:
>
>Alternative methods aside, saying that a language facility is bad
>style is a poor excuse for it not working. Either isKindOf: should be
>eliminated from the language or it should work. Strictly speaking
>isKindOf: does work (as far as I know) if called with an argument
>which is actually a class. However, being called with nil is a
>sufficiently easy mistake to make that I think it would be a good idea
>to check for it.

Actually, since Object is a subclass of nil (go and look if you don't believe
me), everything that inherits from Object is-a nil.  

This thread also had some comments about using respondsTo: aMethod versus
isKindOf: aClass.  These answer two different questions:  respondsTo answers
whether something behaves in a certain way (all Magnitudes understand < ), 
while isKindOf: answers whether something is a specialization (Lettuce is
a specialization of Vegetable).

	anthony.

-=-=-=-Do Not Lick=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anthony Lander                            anthony@zone4.ocunix.on.ca 

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: Smalltalk Parser generator wanted (Tgen?)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:19:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.133907.1766@fwi.uva.nl> rontelta@fwi.uva.nl (Richard Ronteltap (I87)) writes:
                  [ stuff deleted ]
>
>I don't plan on spending much time on the parser generator. A ready-to-run
>lex / yacc type thing would be very welcome. I recall that there was
>something posted here a while ago called Tgen. Is this correct? Is it
>public domain? Where can I get it?
>
>Other commercial recommendations are welcome too.
>
>Thanks,
>Bye,
>Richard

I believe you can find TGen in the smalltalk archives at st.cs.uiuc.edu    .

-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com

Xref: sparky comp.lang.lisp:3063 comp.lang.scheme:2729 news.answers:4511
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Re: Lucid 4, process help
Date: 16 Dec 1992 20:06:53 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <23064@venera.isi.edu> jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan) writes:
>I'm trying to set up a system where several processes are run in the
>background, controlling CLIM applications, and are controlled in some
>part by a forground processes, which is itself a CLIM application.
>
>Now, the only problem comes when trying to quit from the main process.
>I try to issue a KILL-PROCESS to each of the sub-processes, and
>sometimes (not all the time, but not reproducably), I get the
>following error:
>
>>>Error: Attempting to unlock a lock held by #<Process Summary Window 1DE823E>

It would help if you included a stack trace, but what is suspect is
happening is that the subprocesses are all trying to close their windows
concurrently, and there's a problem in the locking protocol that's supposed
to prevent contention for the CLX root window.  
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: ski@atc.boeing.com (Chris Kacoroski,none)
Subject: Use of format or pprint
Reply-To: ski@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Boeing - Product Manufacturing Knowledge Based Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:35:58 GMT

Hi,

I need help in figuring out a format statement.

(setq a "org")
(setq b "chris dan ski elaine nick tony charlie jeff jeffw bruce mike kim kelly")

or a list of names

(setq b '("chris" "dan" "ski"...))

What format string

(format "???" a b)

will print them in this format

org:	chris dan ski elaine nick tony charlie
	jeff jeffw bruce mike kim kelly



Thanks in advance


Cheers,

Chris "ski" Kacoroski	"When we try to pick out anything by itself
ski@atc.boeing.com	 we find it connected to the entire universe"
							John Muir
From: sfl@muttley.ucsd.edu (Susan Fichera)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Summary: Lucid vs. Allegro
Date: 15 Dec 1992 00:01:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Music, UC San Diego
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: muttley.ucsd.edu

This is a quick summary of experience I've had with selecting a brand
of Lisp for use on an SGI Indigo workstation. The application is an
intelligent drawing and painting program, originally written in C,
now ported to Lisp. The user had been working on a Texas Instruments
Lisp machine, quite satisfactorily, but that machine is no longer
supported. The department decided to upgrade to an all-SGI laboratory
for graphics, so we had to select another Lisp for the SGIs.
We investigated both the Allegro and Lucid Lisp. Both seemed to perform
according to package directions. However, I found the Lucid Lisp to be
both easier to install, and faster in its performance. The code it
generated, especially when optimized for speed, was noticeably faster
than that produced by Allegro. The program in question is over 10,000lines
of lisp, driving a mechanical drawing machine, so execution time is key.

The user chose the CLX interface to
Lucid as a graphics environment, with emacs as editor. We found that
the documentation provided by Lucid was easier to follow than Allegro's.
Support for the CLX end of things was minimal with both companies.
If you want to use CLX, the hooks are there, but you have
to get your own documentation off the net. Not much of a problem.
You also have to get your own questions answered somewhere else. 
That hasn't proved much of a problem either really. There's alot of
CLX expertise available net-wise.

I must say that the folks at Allegro were always very helpful, and
the Allegro Lisp may better serve the needs of users in other situations
than ours. But these are the facts as I saw them.

Susan Fichera
UC San Diego CRCA
From: dt4@fig.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: You guys like nanoLISP?
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:18:51 GMT
Distribution: comp

Well, subject says it all. I am using a version of
LISP called NanoLISP, written by Microcomputer Systems 
Consultants.  Do any of you have opinions on this
version?  if so, email me.

thanks

*dt*
From: cc710@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert B. Carleton)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp.x
Subject: XLISP 2.1d for the AT&T 3B1
Date: 21 Dec 1992 06:55:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


For those out there who own 3B1's and have an interest in LISP
programming I have compiled XLISP 2.1d and placed the binary
in Compuserve's AIEXPERT forum.   If you do not have access to
Compuserve let me know via E-mail and I'll see what I can do to
get you a copy.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Robert B. Carleton | If you don't stand for something, You'll
Pearl City HI      | fall for anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp.mcl