HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Soi-disant thangs (was Re: New queer terminology)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 10:54:29 GMT


In article <kfbpb3tr@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.111304.22241@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>As to "thang," I use that word exclusively to refer to the
>>male member (le membre soi-disant virile :-), rather than in
>>a more general sense as you just did.

>Soi-disant?  Shame on you, Jess, unless your 'thang' is capable of
>self-definition, 

It's done at least its share of self-expression, though it
does so less insistently now than it once did.

>in which case I embrace it wholeheartedly.

(a clever ploy.)

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Summary: i'm a registered republican
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:38:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.153314.24649@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> 
> I find it absolutely astonishing that any gay, lesbian,
> or bisexual person could even consider being a member of
> the Republican Party.
>
i had not voted for many years, and a few years ago when i decided that i
really should i gave it a considerable amount of thought as to how to
register (i was a registered democrat the first time).  i decided to register
republican so that i could vote in their primaries and hopefully vote for
more moderate republicans who were pro-choice and preferrably pro-gay (or
at least not anti-gay) and send a message to the republican party that
their stand was too hard-line.  i still feel i made the right decision and
i certainly will NOT vote for any hard-line republican this november (such
as george bush or our asshole senator al d'amato).

-- 

Phil Mele  (pmele@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu)
Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University
Palisades, N Y  10964
From: amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: for donald/lovegod
Summary: soc.motss
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:20:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Aug20.022053.19820
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.
Originator: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu

i can't mail to you, because you're over your disk quota.  clean some
of that stuff out, man!

one of the sayings of elizabeth d. zwicky: disk is not a storage
medium; tape is.

arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:52:12 GMT

In article <l952icINN4p2@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>I don't think the complainers read my original posting at all.
>I suggested, bitchily, true, that new arrivals to the party that
>is soc.motss should be forced to catch up.  It really doesn't take 
>all that long to come up to speed, and besides, we'd never get
>any place at all and have very little fun on the way there if we
>had to come to a halt every two or three minutes for yet another
>introduction.  

That's one way of looking at it.  Many electronic communities (soc.bi,
the Alternates list, many bulletin board systems) disagree.  So do many
flesh-n-blood discussion groups.

Of course, if you come on like Miss Social Register of 1992 when you state
your opinion, that does tend to turn it from a simple statement of opinion
into a pronouncement...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Quilt
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 09:14:47 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <wood.714420852@jfred> <1992Aug22.050656.9682@spdcc.com>
  <15836@star.cs.vu.nl>

FJ! writes:
>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>:Especially if it has a teddy-bear sewn on it.
>A *BIG* *BURLY* *TEDDYBEAR* . With chaps.

And a yellow hankie....  ;-{)##]
 
() We Americans, we're a simple people... but piss us off,
() and we'll bomb your cities.
()      -- Robin Williams, "Good Morning Vietnam"
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Gay names
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 06:55:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug22.035132.22858@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger 
Phillips) writes:
>The only Rogers I've known in the last ten years have been gay.
>(There are several of us around here.)
>But in films and on television,
>the name Roger seems to be reserved for villains,
>slimy heterosexual philanderers, and nerds.
>(Roger Ramjet and Roger Rabbit are in the third category.)

In the book, Roger Rabbit was the murderer.  (The plot was substantially
different.) 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Silicon Graphics
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:16:55 GMT

>Arne:
>> pauli:
>>
>> I suspect you just want to make sure their record collection's 
>> O.K. before you'll go to their place.
>
>So, Pauli, do you have Lee Wiley's "Night in Manhattan" on CD?

No, and I haven't got Bruce Springsteen's "Pawn in the U.S.A." 
But I've got Nina Simone's "He needs me," and "My baby just cares for me,"
and those are all I need.

But speak to me of Lee Wiley. The name rings a bell.

pauli.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:50:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug15.225003.23310
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug15.215745.6733@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>If someone could point out to me "you like this and this, but not
>>this" I would be most grateful.

>I volunteer to help you discover this useful information.  Come on
>over and we'll try a few dozen things, and afterwards I may be able to
>make some provisional conclusions in each category, as well as suggest
>approaches for further study.

Why Jess, I never thought you'd donate your body to science! I imagine
it's good material - I would be proud to be a dedicated student with it. 

>I just love research, don't you?

yes, I do. I've been getting off on it for years. I read the Hite
report when I was 15. It made me realize that being queer was ok. It
also gave me lots and lots of erections which led to lots and lots of
orgasms. The book is just so.. arousing. All those people describing
how they have sex.

I was happy to run into someone else at Reed who shares my kink for
academia - I loaned him my copy of Krafft-Ebing.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                    D is for lots of things
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: vanity fair
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:53:39 GMT

In article <asuccop.713827379@milton> asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop) writes:
>	i was impressed.

Then you must have missed the Barney's ad several years ago
with the two women kissing full on the lips.  Nothing chaste
about it.  I was impressed.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:41:46 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug18.171203.29849@amhux2.amherst.edu>
twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>think it's fair to say that gay in '67 != gay in '92.

How many such things can you identify that have not changed
signficantly in a quarter-century?  Is bisexual what it was
then?  Is lesbian what it was then?  Is queer what it was then?
Is coffee what it was then?  Is America what it was then?  Is
the Communist Bloc what it was then?

In short, what *have* you said here?

>The fact that the debate exists at all, I think, suggests that "gay"
>is reasonably exclusive.

Where who defines "reasonably," one might ask?  You, I
gather.  Is that the historical reference on which it might
all turn, then?

"Inclusive" and "exclusive" and "diversity" and
"multicultural" are all things, like "gay," that have
changed markedly in 25 years, which unless I'm mistaken,
covers your entire existence or nearly so.

I say this not to be obnoxious, Tim, but rather to urge
people to consider *first* the widest possible perspective
for making these sweeping judgments, including in their
process consideration for the inappropriateness of wholesale
categorization of the topic terms without reference to
actual persons involved, without reference to a very real
history that is *actually* important.

You (and not you alone) are making fairly large-scale
pronouncements on matters that happened well before you ever
considered political consciousness.  In the process you seem
to feel that nothing of special import in the world could
have happened before you got here to lay it on us about how
things are nowadays.

You would not presume, I imagine, to make such wholesale and
largely condemnatory remarks about, say, women or
transexuals or transvestites, on the basis of so little
acquaintance with the actual life-histories involved?  Why
then do you permit yourself to do so in the case of
political movements?  Are not the people who animated and
suffered in those movements real people?  Do they (we!) not
deserve more respect than casual denunciations from the
uninformed, the under-informed, or the ill-informed?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:26:24 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy

In article <l92rohINNl2u@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <18AUG92.17292646@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>
>> Sim, really in the tropics, with no artificial heat needed.
>
>OK, LA's not in the tropics, but we've had a week and a half
>of 95+ days with hideous, godawful humidity.  They've even
>started using the heat-humidity index here, according to which 
>it felt like it was 112 on Saturday.  It's *awful*.

Whereas we here, *really* in the tropics, are enjoying yet another
week of perfect 85-degree, low-humidity weather.

La-la-la.

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||            -- My Bloody Valentine
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:08:46 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <63984@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>The aug 13 Wall Street Journal says that cigarette companies are
>targeting gays after they found out that Benson & Hedges is the
>#2 cigarette for gays even though it's nowhere near the top ten
>for all men.
>                                             ...Is the popularity
>of B&H from the fact that it was marketed as a woman's cigarette,
>and a large number of gay smokers are effeminite?
>[...]
>Anyways, thought you folks would find it interesting.

I can't recall ever seeing a gay man smoke Benson & Hedges.  I think I
would notice something like that.  Personally, I usually smoke 
Lucky Strike unfiltered although I recently quit.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Presumption
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:31:08 GMT

In article <4443@news.duke.edu> John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu writes:

>I agree with Romanovsky and Phillips who I quote here from their song, "Give me
>a homosexual"
>
>"How straight can they be when they're down on their knees!"

This is getting really interesting.  Not only do you object to Jess'
labeling these people "straight" -- assuming that is what he was doing
-- but you object to them labeling themselves "straight."  Is there
anyone who you think deserves the label "straight?"  If so, who
deserves to apply that label?  Them?  Me?  You?

>The Fool (i.e. the Court Jester)

Well, we figured that out on our own.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: France (was Re: Gay Republicans)
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:13:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <13398.2a91643d@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> 
msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
>
>All in all, I am glad that in two weeks I will be out of reach of the lies 
>and the doublethink.  

No, they'll just be in a different language.  France has Le Pen, remember.

JoJo, and whoever else is in Paris, I expect you to be good to Mike when he
gets there.  I talked to him on the phone earlier today and was reminded of
how charming he is. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: sarcasm
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:10:28 GMT

amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>no, we do *not* need a sarcasm flag.  (this has been pointed out
>several times by several people: rob?  melinda?  henry?  jack
>hamilton?  arne?  ??)

>*labeling* something as sarcasm utterly undercuts the effect.  the
>whole point about sarcasm is that it's risky; it depends on your
>hearer getting the literal meaning and then seeing that you can't mean
>*that* so you must mean something else and working out what that other
>thing must be.  your hearer has to do some interpretive work, and that
>work *is* the effect.

>some people don't realize they have work to do.  some are too lazy to
>bother.  some don't do the right thing.  so not everyone gets it.  if
>you want to be sure they get your drift, then use *REAL* *CLEAR*
>*LANGUAGE*.  if you want to get the extra effect of sarcasm, then
>be prepared for various kinds of failures.

>arnold (who plays a linguist in real life)

Thank you Arnold, for helping me to point out that my suggestion we use
a sarcasm flag (a tilde, as Trey pointed out) was, indeed, sarcasm.

And now, for extra points, can someone tell me if the above statement
is an example of sarcasm as well?

jeff (can you say "endless loop")
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Saturday, 15 Aug 1992 19:42:37 EDT
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject:    re: Rob Bernardo

I've missed Rob these past few months when he wasn't
on the net the way he used to be, and he had been the
guest of honor at two of "Mara's" dinners here but didn't appear.
I began to wonder, things being what they have become nowadays.

We only traded casual notes now and then, or I would get little
electronic kudos or boos in my reader in response to articles I
had written.  But I enjoyed him very much --  he was
one of the few net folk that I had an itch to meet in person.
He was very amused when I told him some bit of historical trivia about
Jewish cossacks.  Perhaps he flirted with that role in his mind.

I saw the news in Ry's posting first, and I told Ry I kept thinking
of the closing song of Das Leid von der Erde:

"He dismounted and he gave him the farewell cup
 He asked him where he was going and
 Also why it had to be..."

It seems a bit strange to me to feel so saddened when I wasn't
personally acquainted with him, but I guess that is an indication of
how "real" he seemed even on the net.  I think his friends were quite
fortunate to have been his friends.

Jack Carroll
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:01:37 GMT
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

In article <1992Aug19.173104.22795@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> (Whatever a "feminine gay name" is supposed to be, someone clue me in.
> "Lance?"  "Steve?"  "Antoine?")

"Wendy" "Max" "Michelle" "Polly" "Kathryn" "Amanda" 
"Ailsa" "Melinda"

or maybe we simply wouldn't exist in a *truly* butch
universe.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Shoplifting chil'ren (was  Re: folks, cemetery ...)
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:23:05 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards):
> I figure I am damned to hell for shoplifting nail polish when
> I was 13 years old.

ohhh, that triggers a funny and embarressing memory for me.

my mother was the art teacher at the elementary school i attended.
consequently, i would ride to school with her in the morning and
ride home with her in the afternoon, and she would stop at the
super market for groceries.

my friend andie, who i remember was extremely cute with blond
hair and blue eyes, and i used to play teacher.  since i could
swipe all the required tools from my mother, i was always the
teacher.  i had never met a male teacher so i always did it
in drag.

on day after school, while my mother was busy shopping and i
was roaming the grocery store's cheap, plastic toy section, i
spotted a collection of plastic jewelry.  it was complete with
little green and white ear rings, finger rings, necklace, bracelet,
and vanity mirror -- i *needed* it for my teacher routine.  so
i stuffed it in my shirt and waited for my mother outside.

unfortunately, she caught me with them and made me ``march right
back in that store and apologize to the owner.''  still, i figure
on that day, i was doomed to be a mad queen.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:57:33 EDT

In article <1992Aug18.153314.24649@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> I find it absolutely astonishing that any gay, lesbian,
> or bisexual person could even consider being a member of
> the Republican Party.  The party has taken an unequivocal
> stand against equal rights for all of us (and that 
> includes His Royal Butchness, Boob Sarver).  Do any of
> us really believe that we're not entitled to equal
> treatment under the law?

I can't figure this out either.  At best you might think that there are 
some well-to-do queers who think that their own economic well-being will
protect them more than equal rights for all; but I can't figure out 
how they think that 12 years of Republican war-mongering has improved the 
national economic situation.  

All in all, I am glad that in two weeks I will be out of reach of the lies 
and the doublethink.  
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge)
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:28:32 GMT

In <1992Aug15.205051.24221@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <34136@cbmvax.commodore.com> kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:
>
>>He called a few days later and tried to apologize for every anti-gay
>>joke he ever made in my presence.  It seems most of my friends are
>>more concerned about the tasteless jokes they made before they knew
>>I was gay than about me being gay.
>
>Sounds like the mark of a true friend to me.

Sounds familiar too:

A:	[Generic tasteless ill-informed gay joke]
<Pause.  Some smirks>
B:	So is Leroy <my flatmate, very loudly out> really gay?  He's not joking
	or something?
Me:	No, he really is gay.
B:	What he doesn't like women?
Me:	Some of his best friends are women.
B:	Oh.
A:	[Vaguely apologetic comment, wild change of subject]
<Leroy arrives some time later>
A:	[Extra-nice "hello"]

	J

--
jeremy@softway.sw.oz.au ph:+61 2 698 2322-x122 fax:+61 2 699 9174
The pumpkin.  The sheep.  My brother's wife.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:38:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug18.063856.21066
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug18.011159.6901@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>>So where do the snaps come from?  
>Who cares?

*snap*
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     You can't have the revolution without good typesetting
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 23:00:41 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: I Shall Miss Him

rob bernardo is DEAD?????????????  this isn't a really sick
joke is it?  tell me it is...
                                 -ailsa

p.s. in shock...  motssisti don't DIE...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: St. Cole Porter (was Re: Homoerotic bible quotes?)
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:23:13 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <l8iqgfINNld@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
[deletions]
>
>*Fabulous* song, isn't it?  (It should "Down in the Depths on
>the 90th Floor".)
>
>"Here I sit above the town in my pet pailletted gown"
>
>Paillettes are spangles.  Merman wore a dress *covered*
>with bugle beads during that number. 
>

Thanks for the correction and the information. One cannot
know too much about spangles.

BTW, another Merman number that is a little out of the ordinary and
included in this set is a duet from "Panama Hattie" (I think that's
right), sung with a young girl. It's a variation of the let's-be-pals
song that Cole did so well.  The girl corrects La Merman's grammar and
taste, is too sophisticated for all the childish treats the woman
suggests, etc. A lot of fun. I don't have the tapes here today so I
can't be more specific, but I'll be awfully let down if you don't
recognize even this vague description.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi