HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paulk@engin.umich.edu (Paul J. Kominsky)
Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty Lobby
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 11:38:16 EDT
Organization: Rarely
Distribution: na
Keywords: LaRouche

kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>Interestingly, I've been told that Mr. LaRouche does apparently share many
>beliefs with the neo-nazi Liberty Lobby, including the "Trilateral
>Commission" and other similar items...

What is it that's controversial about the Trilateral Commission?

pjk
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Re: Revisionist Convicted AGAIN!
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:51:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Jul19.225535.11915@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg ) writes:
>town of Eckville, Alberta, has been convicted for the second time of
>wilfully promoting hatred against Jews.
>	Jusitce Arthur Lutz of the Court of Queen's Bench in nearby
>Red Deer fined James Keegstra $3,000 (Canadian) a few hours after a
>jury of eight women and four men found him guilty.
>	The verdict was the culmination of a four-month retrial in
>which 17 former students of Keegstra's testified that from 1978 to
>1982, he taught them that an evil worldwide Jewish conspiracy bent on
>destroying Christianity existed and that the Holocaust was a hoax.
>

While I think that a person teaching such hateful things should
be dismissed from their teaching position, I don't think the
government should jail people for "willfully promoting hatred".
Such governmental powers to regulate speech are far more dangerous
than private citizens expressing their opinions, regardless of
how loathesome.  Those who burn crosses on lawns or deface
synagogues can be prosecuted under other laws such as criminal
tresspass and perhaps additions to these laws can be made to
stiffen the penalties if such hate acts are involved.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: B-CPU: (FAQ) A Layman's Guide (Long - 653 lines)
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:20:18 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: b-cpu,IHR,Carto,Smith,Gannon

In article <5609@ucru2.ucr.edu> mmason@ucrengr.ucr.edu (martin mason) writes:

>I am distressed by some of the statements that this article makes in regards
>to Bradley Smith.  The information presented makes no effort to refute any
>
>of Bradley Smith's arguements.  It instead seems that the path taken in this 
>article is one of mere generalized assertions against Smiths beliefs and
>Character.  Sounds like a hack job to me.  Any information refuting the 
>arguements of Smith would be appreciated, as I have no vested interest in 
>any particular interpretation of history.  Smith states on page 8 of 
>"COnfessions of a Holocaust Revisionist" that "This isn't as clear-cut as
>people think it is.  I never say that the Holocaust never happened.  A thousand 
>year old Jewish culture in Eastern Europe was destroyed in three or four
>years."
>Finally, I am writing this because I feel that your attacks are just as 
>unjust as those which you would accuse others of.  I admire Bradley Smith
>for his anti war sentiments as published in the Visalia Times Delta 
>during the Persian Gulf Massacre.

First, it is not the purpose of the FAQ to 'refute' the arguments advanced
by Mr. Smith, but to acquaint readers with the man and his background. If
something in the file is untrue, or incorrect, I'd appreciate your bringing
it to my attention.

Second, alt.revisionism, soc.history, and talk.politics.misc (among others)
have seen frequent and well-documented responses to Bradley Smith's
assertions - I am quite surprised that you have not seen them.

>Hopefully, you will credit your readers with enough intelligence to
>understand actual refutations rather then mere hatchet jobs.

Please be specific about what has been published in the FAQ that is not
correct - as the LaRouche business clearly shows, I am quite prepared to
correct information that cannot be independently supported.  Unless you can
point me towards something in the FAQ that is false wrt Smith, the words
"hatchet job" simply won't wash.

-- 
"I boiled  the soap  out  of  the  bodies of women and men.  The process of
boiling alone took several days --  from 3 to 7.   During two manufacturing
processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap
were produced." (Mazur, from "Hitler's Death Camps")
From: mmason@ucrengr.ucr.edu (martin mason)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: B-CPU: (FAQ) A Layman's Guide (Long - 653 lines)
Keywords: b-cpu,IHR,Carto,Smith,Gannon
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:38:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside


I am distressed by some of the statements that this article makes in regards
to Bradley Smith.  The information presented makes no effort to refute any

of Bradley Smith's arguements.  It instead seems that the path taken in this 
article is one of mere generalized assertions against Smiths beliefs and
Character.  Sounds like a hack job to me.  Any information refuting the 
arguements of Smith would be appreciated, as I have no vested interest in 
any particular interpretation of history.  Smith states on page 8 of 
"COnfessions of a Holocaust Revisionist" that "This isn't as clear-cut as
people think it is.  I never say that the Holocaust never happened.  A thousand 
year old Jewish culture in Eastern Europe was destroyed in three or four
years."
Finally, I am writing this because I feel that your attacks are just as 
unjust as those which you would accuse others of.  I admire Bradley Smith
for his anti war sentiments as published in the Visalia Times Delta 
during the Persian Gulf Massacre.

It is my belief that the free exchange of information is important above all


else.
Hopefully, you will credit your readers with enough intelligence to
understand actual refutations rather then mere hatchet jobs.

Peace,
Martin          





Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:619 alt.conspiracy:9382
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty Lobby
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:10:39 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Distribution: na
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: LaRouche

In article <zZS-NL=@engin.umich.edu> paulk@engin.umich.edu (Paul J. Kominsky) writes:

>kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>>Interestingly, I've been told that Mr. LaRouche does apparently share many
>>beliefs with the neo-nazi Liberty Lobby, including the "Trilateral
>>Commission" and other similar items...

>What is it that's controversial about the Trilateral Commission?

The assertion seen from time to time that these sneaky folks are running the
world in conspiratorial fashion, perhaps?

<followup to alt.conspiracy>
-- 
Josef Kramer, a man whose incumbency earned him the sobriquet "The Beast of
Belsen," treated the uncontrollable epidemic of diarrhea at Belsen with a
prescription of starvation. "If you don't eat," he said, "you don't shit."
"The more dead Jews you bring me," he noted, "the better I like it."
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This newsgroup...
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:05:21 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <1992Jul23.043920.26251@news.acns.nwu.edu> mhauser@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marc Hauser) writes:

>I have noticed that there have not been many posts to this newsgroup lately. 
>Not to sound disappointed or anything though, considering the fact that a
>group like this should not have to exist in the first place.  But, can someone
>tell me, did B-CPU lost their feed like they were bitching about while back? 
>I just got back some netaccess, and noticed this.  Please enlighten me of this
>happy news...

Gannon's free feed was finally revoked. He could, if he wished, obtain a
feed through uunet, or a similar commercial service. The final straw, from
the information I have seen, was that he lied about who he was - that seems
to have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

B-CPU is still on-line, and several folks have carried the battle directly
to Gannon - there appear to be some on his system, in fact, that he will no
longer discuss the Holocaust with... too many facts getting in the way, I
suppose...

I suspect Gannon will be back, but really don't know whether it's lack of
funding or fear of further exposure that's kept him away this long...

-- 
"Also, our records do not support that Mr. Leuchter performed either
consulting or any service...I can attest that the planning and work was
performed by the Department of Correction Engineering Section and our
institution maintenance department." Signed: Gary T. Dixon, Warden NC
From: vadim@thnext.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Vadim Kaplunovsky)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Convicted AGAIN!
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:03:23 GMT

In article <15772@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
[about Keegstra's conviction]
> 
> While I think that a person teaching such hateful things should
> be dismissed from their teaching position, I don't think the
> government should jail people for "willfully promoting hatred".
Keegstra wasn't jailed, just fined.
> Such governmental powers to regulate speech are far more dangerous
> than private citizens expressing their opinions, regardless of
> how loathesome.  Those who burn crosses on lawns or deface
> synagogues can be prosecuted under other laws such as criminal
> tresspass and perhaps additions to these laws can be made to
> stiffen the penalties if such hate acts are involved.

I think we agree on the major point -- spouting offensive bullshit
to whoever volunteers to listen should not be a crime, but hate-inspired
violence and vandalism is a very different matter.  What Keegstra did
falls between the two extremes: He didn't commit violence, but he
wasn't just spouting BS either -- he was teaching offensive and hate-raising
falsehoods as _the_history_ to a captive audience of public-school students.
This clearly goes beyond free speach into the realm of abusing authority
over children.  Whether or not this should be a crime depends on a particular
society.  It is a crime in Canada, so Keegstra got his just deserts.

--
******************************************************************
Vadim Kaplunovsky,		| vadim@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu
Assistant Professor of Physics,	| Currently posting as
University of Texas at Austin	| vadim@thnext.slac.stanford.edu
Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:616 soc.history:6650 talk.politics.misc:35755
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: LEST WE FORGET: 1.5 Million Gassed: Maidanek
Keywords: Maidanek
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:41:07 GMT

Maidanek is an important historical site, mainly because it was captured
almost intact by the Soviets. However, the number of 1.5 million victims
is an over estimate.

Maidanek gives the neo-Nazis who deny the Holocaust a lot of problems,
because some of its gas chambers utilized Carbon Monoxide (CO); there
is no way to claim that CO was used for anything but murder purposes
(the first use of it as such was in the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing)
program, in which about 75,000 retarded and insane people were disposed
off).

-Danny Keren.


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: mhauser@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marc Hauser)
Subject: This newsgroup...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:39:20 GMT



I have noticed that there have not been many posts to this newsgroup lately. 
Not to sound disappointed or anything though, considering the fact that a
group like this should not have to exist in the first place.  But, can someone
tell me, did B-CPU lost their feed like they were bitching about while back? 
I just got back some netaccess, and noticed this.  Please enlighten me of this
happy news...

If this is going to see the eventual end of this newsgroup, a warm thanks to
all those who posted to nail those revisionist nazis to the wall and make sure
that for every one of their posts, there were more than 100 in response
disproving the crap.  I am sure everyone feels this way, and we must continue
the fight against these wackos.  At least we got them off of the nets.


Thanks!  (By the way, if this group does fall into oblivion, does anyone know
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving's later book
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:58:20 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.
Keywords: Chelmno,Eichmann,Goebbels,Irving

In article <1992Jul23.222410.11997@hobbes.kzoo.edu> k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy) writes:
>
>Maynard claimed the Himmler speech was a fake, and that I should consult
>Faurisson and Irving about it.  I said, "OK," and pulled an Irving quote
>from the 1977 _Hitler's_War_ in which he refers to it as genuine.
>Maynard says Irving changed his mind in a later revision of
>_Hitler's_War_.
>
>(1) I didn't know he revised HW, I thought he just changed his stance
>in later books.  Am I wrong?  (2) Can anyone with ready access to
>any such books find a quote or two about the speech for me please?
>

No revised version of Hitler's War has been published and registered
with the library of congress.  I have never seen any quotes from
later books that revise Irving's beliefs.  I have invited the
BCPU people to find some quotes, but all that can say is
"He changed his mind" (i.e. he now denies the Holocaust).  From
what the NY TImes said, I don't think that is true.  In fact,
the latest report is that because of the Goebbels' diaries he
is reconsidering his view about Hitler knowing about the holocaust.
(I.e. Hitler knew about it.)



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Re: LEST WE FORGET: 1.5 Million Gassed: Maidanek
Keywords: Maidanek
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:52:52 GMT
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Jul23.231325.6268@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>#Another issue of interest to me is that of the soap...
>
>Opinions seem to conflict. Two British POW's testified with great
>detail about the soap, as well as a Russian POW; however some
>historians question the story, some say an attempt was made to
>manafacture soap from corpses but dropped because it didn't seem
>to be profitable. I will try to get more info about this.

Didn't anyone think to preserve any of these artifacts?  Were they
destroyed because of the horror of it all, or what?  Surely
we could subject them to analysis and determine if they were
of human origin if any survived.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:627 soc.history:6730
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Holocaust Almanac: Plac Zgody - Lassen Sie die Kinder stehen!
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 12:01:02 GMT
Reply-To: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: Zgody

"One Sunday morning before dawn, a policeman came to Lily's door. ... She
was asked to take her child out of bed and follow the policeman to Plac
Zgody where several women were already standing with their little ones.
Some held their babies in their arms, others let the children hold onto
their skirts.
...

Lily looked up at the windows of the houses surrounding the Plac Zgody, but
neither outside nor inside the ghetto was there any sign that anyone
noticed what was taking place in that early dawn.
...

A quick, unexpected movement of the guards startled them. Mothers with
infants in their arms, babies who were at the age when they had just begun
to crawl, and children who were mostly under eight years of age were
pressed towards the inner wall of the ghetto. In front of them an
impenetrable gray wall of stone -- in back of them another insurmountable
green wall of armed men.

`Lassen Sie de Kinder stehen!' (Let the children stand by themselves!) the
Germans shouted, trying to pull the mothers away.

Lily held her small daughter tightly in her arms. One of the soldiers
struggled to take the child away from her and furiously thrust her to
ground, pulling the child free with a final wrench. Dashing headlong, after
she had managed to spring to her feet, Lily reached for the little one. The
thundering tra-ta-ta-ta-a struck the child before her mother could shield
her. The young child looked like a little angel with her cherubic mouth
slightly open and her eyes turned towards heaven, only this angel was
motionless. Lily's screams were quelled in an instant by other bullets
which pierced her head and heart. Other babies were merely smashed against
the stone wall by the raging madmen who decided to save their bullets."

Excerpted from----------------------------------------------------------
"The Survivor in Us All - A Memoir of the Holocaust," Erna F. Rubinstein
(Hamden, Connecticut: Archon Books, 1983) ISBN 0-208-02025-X   pp. 61-62
------------------------The Old Frog's Almanac--------------------------

For an extensive bibliography dealing with the Holocaust, and containing over 
1000 citations, contact kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca - it will be sent to you
by return email. Additions to this bibliography are actively solicited.

For the complete collection of Almanac Holocaust archives, simply let me
know whether you prefer zipped or tar.Z format. The bibliography is
included in the archives.
-- 
"We guarantee the effectiveness of the crematoria ovens as well as their
durability, the use of the best materials and of course, our faultless
workmanship." From the bargain-basement bid for the crematoria at Treblinka,
submitted by the enterprising director of the C. N. Kori Company. [Sachar]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Convicted AGAIN!
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:57:45 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <15772@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:

>In article <1992Jul19.225535.11915@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg ) writes:

>>town of Eckville, Alberta, has been convicted for the second time of
>>wilfully promoting hatred against Jews.
>>	Jusitce Arthur Lutz of the Court of Queen's Bench in nearby
>>Red Deer fined James Keegstra $3,000 (Canadian) a few hours after a
>>jury of eight women and four men found him guilty.
>>	The verdict was the culmination of a four-month retrial in
>>which 17 former students of Keegstra's testified that from 1978 to
>>1982, he taught them that an evil worldwide Jewish conspiracy bent on
>>destroying Christianity existed and that the Holocaust was a hoax.

>While I think that a person teaching such hateful things should
>be dismissed from their teaching position, I don't think the
>government should jail people for "willfully promoting hatred".

Canadians, you may be surprised to learn, support this law. With regard to
your specific comment, I confess confusion. If you want to grant government
the power to take away someone's livelihood, how does that differ from
convicting them of a crime?

>Such governmental powers to regulate speech are far more dangerous
>than private citizens expressing their opinions, regardless of
>how loathesome.  Those who burn crosses on lawns or deface

Expressing your opinion is one thing - teaching racial hatred is
quite another. In Keegstra's case, I'm delighted to see the second
conviction. Perhaps Mr. Keegstra will immigrate to your side of the border
and teach in your city - you are welcome to him.

-- 
"Also, our records do not support that Mr. Leuchter performed either
consulting or any service...I can attest that the planning and work was
performed by the Department of Correction Engineering Section and our
institution maintenance department." Signed: Gary T. Dixon, Warden NC
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: odin@world.std.com (Hank Roth)
Subject: Assholes
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:56:37 GMT

<<<< via P_news >>>>

I would like to highly recommend a book called ASSHOLE NO MORE.
It is by Xavier Crement, M.D. and is a self-help guide for 
recovering assholes and their victims. I can think of several 
people I could send it to on these nets with sincerest hope that 
it would lead to recovery. 

The introduction begins thusly: "Like almost everyone else, I have 
been dealing with assholes all my life. For most fo this time, 
however, I have been, like most of society, trapped in our age-
old concepts of assholism. Failing to recognize it as a disease, 
I simply accepted it as a character flaw that could be modified 
or eliminated at will."

"I have now come to understand the true nature of assholism. It 
is an addiction as bad as alcoholism, chemical dependency, or 
codependency. It afflicts major portions of the population---yet 
most assholes are not the least bit aware that they are 
assholes!" 

The author goes on to describe certain characteristics that can 
be ascribed to common assholes, which are: "blind selfishness, 
unrestrained obnoxiousness, arrogant righteousness, an asbestos-
proof conscience (it won't even burn in hell), rejection of 
human decency, merciless exploitation of the innocent," and 
there are more, too many to name here. 

The author, who is not a psychiatrist use to be an asshole 
himself, when he was a proctologist. He names other high risk 
groups of assholes. Here are just a few: "male nurses, Internal 
Revenue Service agents, cops, bureaucrats, lawyers, other 
doctors, Anyone who drives as if he or she owns the road, 
evangelists, congressmen, bill collectors, People who play car 
stereos at full volume, parents of kids who run wild in public 
places," et al.

The book is available from Enthea Press. (address upon request) 
They also publish THE TAO OF MEOW and FART PROUDLY, if anyone is 
interested. 

**** "I'm OK, but you're an asshole"
                 Cardinal Pushing



Newsgroups: alt.revisionism