HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

In rec.bicycles, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

> I find the women's racing, at least here in America, to be as 
> interesting, if not more so, than the men's competition.

I couldn't disagree more.  I hate to admit it, but I find women's
road racing much less exciting than men's road racing.   Too many
women's races end with a pack sprint because few women are aggressive
enough to try breakaways.  An alternative scenario is letting the
dominant women (Inga, or Jeannie, or the Dutch woman van Morsels (sp?)) 
go off the front and nobody will chase together, while the pack is content 
to race for second place.  Ho hum.   I couldn't believe in the Olympics
none of the women would work together to chase down Watt.  The Ore-Ida has 
better than usual women's racing, it seems to generate more breakaways, 
chases, and race dynamics than the races I see in Colorado.

From ~1982-1987 Jeannie Longo dominated women's bicycle racing to such an 
extent that it made women's  bicycle racing boring.  Longo 1st, Canins 2nd,
in what, 5 Women's TdFs?  Who wants to watch a race for second place?
It was analagous to watching the "Dream Team" in Olympic basketball 
(or the 7-11 team in later years of the Coors Classic) - there was never 
any question as to who would win each game. 

> After all, the American women are with the very best in the world.
> While the American men are still pretty much second string.

America has a *few* women (Inga Thompson, Rebecca Twigg, Ruthie Matthes,
 etc.) who are among the very best in the world, just as we have a few men
(Lemond, Hampsten, etc.) who are among the very best in the world.
US women certainly do NOT dominate world class women's racing, as
evidenced by recent World Championships and the Olympics.  

I'm really going to provoke a flame fest here:
I find women's racing less interesting because the women are *SO*
much slower than the men.  Compare any district ITT times, the women
are 20-30% slower than the men.  At a Norba National series MTB race
this weekend (King of the Rockies), I placed 24th in men's sport category 
with a time that would have put me in 8th place in the women's PRO category.  
In men's PRO category, I would have been 3rd from last out of 60 racers.
Rishi Grewal beat my time of 2:20 by 33 minutes!!!!!, at 1:47 for 30 miles.
A large part of the excitement for me in watching men's pro racing is
a sense of awe at just how incredibly fast these guys can go.  When I
can ride almost as fast as the best women racers I don't experience
that same sense of awe in watching them.

BTW, Rishi Grewal won both stages of the King of the Rockies MTB race.
Julie Furtado won Saturday and I think Sunday too.  After battling
for the lead with Rishi for 3 laps, John Tomac blew up *badly* in 
Saturday's race and lost almost 10 minutes! 

Keith Erskine
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: QUESTION about aero bars
Date: 26 Aug 1992 15:21:28 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston

In article <1992Aug25.100911.8781@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
erdmans@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Check your gravity at the door.) writes: 

>... The bars come in 4 different extension sizes ...
>
>Does a method exist where I can measure my arms 

Such measurements are usually taken with a ruler or tape measure.
The forearms just above the elbows rest in the cups on the aero bars
and the centers of the palms of the hands are at the centers of the
grips. 

>or another relevant part of my body ...

I am featuring some really weird uses for aero bars now.

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: camlau@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (**bj**)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Pop! Goes the Joint
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug28.001729.12582@kei.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp>, jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp writes...
> 
>In article <9208271309.AA28574@mobil.com> ra_novy@DAL.MOBIL.COM writes:
> 
> |I've wondered for some time about the cause of the pop! sound that a joint,
> |such as an ankle or a knuckle, can make.  It happens often when the joint is
> |moved after a period of rest.  You should hear my ankles after I wake up! 
> |There's no pain or grinding sensation, only a feeling of relief.
> |
> |I've heard various explanations for this, some of which involve accumulation of
> |some fluid (even air!) or sticking of ligaments.  What's the collective wisdom
> |out there say?  Will I finally hear the definitive answer?
> ................
>ankle clicks when I walk.  It is supposedly a ligament snpping over a
>bone.  Dr. says it is not a problem and there is not much I cn do
>about it.  If I put my foot down differently I can get it to stop but
>that requires me to walk pretty strangely which is likely worse than
>the clicking.
> 
>....[theory about why this happens deleted].....

My joints, esp my ankles and toes, pop and crackle a lot.  My mother, sister,
and brother all have the same "condition".  Aside from the fact that
none of us can sneak up on people, this "condition" has had no effect
on our everyday lives.  Besides, I have never been the sneaky sort anyway.
**bj**
From: STHARRY@MIAMIU.BITNET (Who do you think?)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: ADVISE sought: WIFE doesn't wear helmet, etc. - how to make her do
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:24:49 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Paul,
     I never wore my  helmet and honestly did not understand the need for it.
 I then had my  crash and have since never gone without, but that doesn't
 really help you I know.  With people I ride with, I don't go unless they
 wear a helmet.  I know this is not practical advice to you.  If it was me, I
 would get some quick brochurs about  helmet wearing and leave them in the
 bathroom (excellent place for extraneous reading material).  Hopefully, it
 will be subtle enough and still get the  point accross.
 
 As for the problem of the speed, I would suggest going for the short ride
 and then taking of at other times by yourself or with friends for speed rides.
 I know it sucks to ride slow, but sometimes it does beat riding alone (at
 times).
 --
 Thoughts of no consequence,
 Steve (aka Democ)
 stharry@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
From: reb@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Ralph Bean)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:12:20 GMT
Subject: Re: request tire pres v rolling resistance chart
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

Thanks to Jobst, I have it.

Ralph
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:06:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <9209011719.AA20872@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>
>What the chain does is of little consequence.  Although the foot may be
>going in circles the ratio between foot and bike motion varies during
>rotation.  Because the bike and rider travel at relatively constant
>speed (having much inertia), the foot and leg move at a jerky rate.
>It is this uneven rate and its acceleration that makes the whole concept
>fall apart while gaining no advantage in power.

This concept (Biopace) actually plays with the biomechanics of the
human body. Granted that there is probably little improvement that can
be made but isn't bicycling a sport of small improvements?

I just don't think that Biopace came out from the technical end as
a marketing ploy. I think that it was somewhat incorrect research
that lead to incorrect conclusions about the _average_ rider.

What marketing did with that ball is another story.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Correct seat height summary
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C00994BB01433A@mac8.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:00:20 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:00:47 GMT

In article <1482@seqp4.sequoia.com> Art LaValle,
alavalle@seqp4.sequoia.com writes:
>DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW THE CORRECT AND COMPLETE METHOD, USING THE
.883
>MEASUREMENT OF SETTING SEAT HEIGHT ? I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU ARE
SUPPOSSED TO
>ACCOUNT FOR THE VARIABLE OF CRANKARM LENGTHS..

Dig out Lemond's book.  In there, he discusses the .883 method including
compensating for
various crank lengths and the sole thickness of various bike shoes.  He
discusses this
method for setting seat height very thoroughly.

STAUFFER
stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mack23@avalon.eecs.nwu.edu (Chris Walsh)
Subject: Re: ADVISE sought: WIFE doesn't wear helmet, etc. - how to make her do
Organization: My desk in the Tech building
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:20:10 GMT

In article <92244.102449STHARRY@MIAMIU.BITNET> Who do you think? <STHARRY@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>Paul,
>     I never wore my  helmet and honestly did not understand the need for it.
> I then had my  crash and have since never gone without, but that doesn't
> really help you I know.  With people I ride with, I don't go unless they
> wear a helmet.  I know this is not practical advice to you.  If it was me, I
> would get some quick brochurs about  helmet wearing and leave them in the
> bathroom (excellent place for extraneous reading material).  Hopefully, it
> will be subtle enough and still get the  point accross.
> 

Another good read that makes this point is a book by some couple (help me
here, folks!).  They rode zillions of miles around the U.S. and documented
it in a book.  Tons of photos and descriptions of how idiots cut them off,
tossed shit at 'em etc.  About a third through this 300 pp book, I realized
that neither person ever had a helmet on.  I finished the book, and on the
last page there was an Afterword that said that the female protagonist (if
there can be such a thing in a non-fiction work) had died a few months after
completing the book, of head injuries sustained in a helmetless crash.  The
remaining author strongly urged folks to always wear a helmet.  If your wife 
has any sense at all, this will make the desired impression.  Now, if anyone
can help with the title, ISBN #, etc...



--

Chris Walsh                               Pithy Quotation Wanted
TechNet Network Administrator             ----------------------
2145 Sheridan Rd.                         Send candidates to: 
Evanston, IL 60208                         mack23@avalon.eecs.nwu.edu
From: henk@fudd.frcs.alt.za (Henk Coetzee)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Helmet Question
Date: 31 Aug 92 01:09:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: fudd.715223365snx
Organization: FRCS mail/news uucp point

Hi

I've been riding for a while with a helmet made by a company called
Hyde. It consists of a high density flexible plastic outer shell,
with a few elongated ventilation holes. This is lined with a 
bit more than a centimetre of quite firm compressible material.

There are two temple protectors, made of a similar material, and held
in place with the strap which adjusts the fit of the helmet. It looks 
like the old Romer helmets

As far as I know it is not ANSI approved, but when it was mede, there was 
no local standard for helmets.

Does anybody know this type of helmet, and whether or not it is
good, bad or indifferent.

Please email and/or post replies. If there is sufficient interest
I will post a summary.

Cheers

Henk


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Henk Coetzee                        |  i never ran across any of this
Henk Coetzee                        |  i never ran across any of this
P.O. Box 26305                      |  ectoplasm that sir arthur
Arcadia                             |  conan doyle tells of but it sounds
Pretoria 0007                       |  as if it might be wonderful
South Africa                        |  stuff to mend broken furniture with 
E-Mail henk@fudd.frcs.alt.ZA        |                                 archy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: women working on bikes
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:44:01 GMT
Organization: Institute of Industrial Science, University of tokyo.

In article <9209040141.AA15426@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
> I think there is an aversion to accept that nature passes certain traits
> along over which we have little control.  We observe it in animals and
> birds but we deny that it applies to us.  I can understand that this can
> lead to difficult questions for which I have no answers.  Therefore, I
> resign myself to this apparent fact and leave it be.

That nature determines our mechanical (or other) abilities based on our
sex is not an "apparent fact."  The only apparent fact is that there are
relatively few women engineers.  We may hypothesize that this is a result
of a natural bias of mechanical ability on the male side, but there is a
very good reason why we should reject this hypothesis.

The natural-bias hypothesis discourages women from investing their time
in engineering education.  Enrolling in science and technology cirricula,
playing with tools and devices, or just thinking about stuff is
discouraged.  As long as the natural-bias hypothesis is still a
hypothesis, its discouraging charactaristic is disasterous and
self-perpetuating.  As long as there is a possibility that the bias is
only a result of socialization, we owe it to women to eliminate the
socializing forces that prevent their full participation.  This includes
rejecting the hypothesis that the scarcity of women with interests in
technology is a result of natural bias, regardless of the validity of that
hypothesis.

The natural-bias hypothesis takes on mythical proportions, even (perhaps
especially) in that segment of society which should consider itself most
responsible:  the technically educated.  Jobst, you didn't mention having
any daughters, and you did mention not having worked with any women engineers.
Well I may eventually have daughters, and I do have many woman friends in
science and engineering.  For their sake, please, do not "resign yourself
to this apparent fact and leave it be."

Dave
-----
David Wuertele, Yasuda Lab, Electronic Engineering, Institute of Industrial Science,
University of Tokyo.				dave@windsor.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: somerville@BAEPV4.NCSU.EDU (SOMERVILLE)
Subject: COMM: I can't take it anymore!
Reply-To: somerville@BAEPV4.NCSU.EDU (SOMERVILLE)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:52:15 GMT

I don't know what's going on, but the level of violence
towards cyclists is increasing here.  I knew it for certain
two weeks ago when shots were fired from a pickup containing
six youths as it approached me.  As the truck passed, the front
passenger leaned out and yelled, "Die motherfucker!"  This was a 
first for me!

Last week there was the case of another truck that seemed to take
an interest in me, passing me a total of four times in less than
two miles.  Two times, the front passenger leaned out attempting
to punch me (off my bike I suppose).  I do the same thing Jobst
mentioned -- wait till you hear them just behind and swerve away!

This week started at about 6:00 a.m. with a truck making a left turn
directly in front of me.  I *very* narrowly escaped being hit.  Now I
know bike lights can be hard to see and all, so I usually like to
stop and tell these people what just happened so that maybe they can
keep a look out next time.  If I had just nearly hit a cyclist while
driving, I would feel two things: *relief* that I did NOT actually
hit him/her, and *remorse* at nearly having done so.  That's why
I was shocked when this driver began yelling nonsense at me, first
saying that I didn't have no lights.  After I showed him my lights,
he went on, ending with "You aint sposed to be passen no damned car
anyway!"  I always have the same problem in these cases -- I am so
dumbfounded by what they say that I can only come up with a 
flabergasted "WHAT!!??!"

Finally, this morning, I was riding at the right edge of the left lane of
a four lane rode approaching a stop light.  Why do I ride in the left
lane here?  Because the right lane is a *right turn only* lane.
So here comes a car behind me, blowing his horn like crazy.  He passes
me very close *on the left*, and immediately cuts across to the *right*
hand lane.  Sound familiar?  I had an opportunity to catch him, at which
point he yelled a bunch a crap and tried to reach out and hit me with
his newspaper.  His final argument:  I was riding *on* the white line.
It is not true and hardly makes any difference, since there was ample
room to pass me from the right lane.  God, please help me.

I am having some serious mental problems from this kind of continuous
harassment.  I mean, I feel like I just hate *everyone* who drives a 
car.  All I can think about is waiting at the corner tomorrow morning with
a bazooka to *blow this guy away*  I need some help.  (My voice is
even hoarse from yelling at this car driving away)

Thanks for letting me vent this.  It helps to know I'm not the only one
that gets this crap -- I just don't seem to take it too good.

Back to your regular programming...

--
Garth Somerville
somerville@bae.ncsu.edu
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:22072 rec.bicycles.tech:206
From: bilgeoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Patricia Gellert)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Advice wanted:  racks/cages
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:39:58 GMT
Reply-To: bilgeoid@u.washington.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

My company sponsors bicycle commuting, and have offered to put up a bike cage
and rack in our parking garage.  They have asked for my advice before buying,
and now I am asking for yours.

Do you have any advice on racks, what is good and what is bad?  What would you
do in my situation, when you get to advise your company on the ideal bicycle
parking situation?

Please reply via email to me, I will post a summary to the net.

Brian L. Henry
bilgeoid@u.washington.edu (this is a borrowed account; reply here)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Re: All that fat
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 20:46:59 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <z=+n=r.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>Looking at the calory counter in the latest Bicycling! I note
>that they claim that a Tour de France rider uses some 6,000
>calories per day. I think that you can only recover some
>30% of the calories eaten so that means that you have to eat
>some 20,000 calories.

I understand that the relevant efficiencies are ca. 80% from stomach to
bloodstream glucose, 90% from bloodstream to muscle glycogen deposit,
about 60% from bloodstream to fat deposit, and a mere 35% from glycogen deposit
to the pedals.  

When you burn 600 Kcal of glycogen to produce 200 Kcal of pedal effort and 400
Kcal of heat, you consume a corresponding amount of oxygen, which is what
measurement exercise physioligists measure when they report that hard bike
riding is a 600 Kcal/hr activity.  So the greats can get their 6,000 Kcal by
eating perhaps 7,000 or 8,000 .  I would not be surprised to hear that the GI
tract is a bit less efficient when handling these loads instead of a more
normal 2500, but especially if the guy is used to it i would expect to see
efficiencies at least in the high 70's of percent.

>
>Even if you are 50% efficient I would like to see you get that
>many calories inside without eating _lots_ of fat. You just
>don't have a big enough or fast enough digestive track unless
>you are part Hippo. :-)
>

Thirty bagels ought to do it; fifteen in each pannier constitutes a balanced
diet, i suppose (;-) .  Perhaps you need something from each of the four food
groups: Onion, Poppy-seed, Garlic and Whole Wheat (;-) .  But my key point is
that the 6,000 Kcal figure was measured UPstream of the body's big conversion
losses.

-dk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Table of Grades of Selected Roads in the Santa Cruz Mtns.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 22:18:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: ba

In article <l9sunhINNjh7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>>When combined with the high altitude, NOTHING beats Sonora Pass with
>>18% at the Window, and 15-17 percent at the Golden Stairs (between
>>8000 and 9000 ft marker) in the Sierra Nevada for difficulty on
>>paved public roads.
>
>>hosler_ray#post@tandem.com
>
>Even considering the altitude, I think Skagg's Springs/Stewart's
>Point Road in northern Sonoma County, California is a more difficult
>paved road than the aformentioned west side of Sonora Pass
>(which ranks #2 or #3).  It is also, just as beautiful.  Don't
>miss this one, especially on a nice, hot summer day!
>
Not that I'm foolish enough to try, but our two death ride
finishers from this year tried riding to Virginia City and
claimed that the hill up to Virginia City was the hardest
they had tried.
>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Jeff E Mandel <mandel@tmc.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: Bicycle Tour from San Fran to L.A. in the fall (help)
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-28871]: mandel.anes.tulane.edu
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C28C9584013009@mandel.anes.tulane.edu>
X-Xxdate: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:43:49 GMT
Organization: Tulane University School of Medicine
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:43:49 GMT

I did this tour in 1984 with my wife. We started in Sunnyvale, went over
the Saratoga Gap, and followed Highway 1 down to LA. My advice:
1) Pull in at Santa Barbara and get on the train, or fly back from there.
The scenic value of the rest of the trip doesn't warrant dodging the
half-million car trips a day you can encounter in Malibu. If you insist
on going to LA, figure out how to get to the AYH Hostel in Westchester
before you hit LA, and reserve space there. It is convenient to LAX, but
there are easier ways to find it than to ride along the beach until you
see airplanes overhead, then backtrack from there.
2) Spend extra time in either the Santa Cruz mountains or Julia Pfieffer
Burns State Park (If I remember the name incorrectly, my apologies).
There are designated bicycle campsites in some of the campgrounds, and
very nice hikes.
3) Don't push yourself to make it out of Big Sur to San Simeon. The
camping there is very unscenic. Take a short day from Burns to the
campground at the south end of Big Sur (can't remember the name of that
one).
4) There are scads of cyclists on the route during summer and early fall,
many more going south than north, due to the winds. We would meet up with
other cyclists several days running, and some of our fondest memories
were of a particularly crazy bunch in Carpenteria.
5) I've done the north coast of California twice, and the south coast
once, and I'd recommend the north coast. Truth be told, Astoria, Oregon
to Eureka, CA is probably the nicest. Below Lompoc, California
increasingly is just city riding, and why go out of your way to ride in
someone else's city?
6) To Don Parks, a strong recommendation. Ride 30 miles the first day and
stay in the Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park. Hike in the Redwoods. Get
up the next morning and ride south to a restaurant whose name escapes me,
but which is run by a German master chef, and serves a 4-star breakfast.
This puts you on pace for an easy 60 mile day to Eureka. 

Jeff E Mandel MD MS
Associate Professor of Anesthesiology
Tulane University School of Medicine
New Orleans, LA

mandel@vax.anes.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles