HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Gun Purchase Laws
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:56:55 GMT

In article <22064@galaxy.ucr.edu> starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood) writes:
>Path: utkux1.utk.edu!utkcs2!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!galaxy!ucrmath!starbuck
>From: starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood)
>Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
>Subject: Gun Purchase Laws
>Message-ID: <22064@galaxy.ucr.edu>
>Date: 30 Aug 92 21:59:50 GMT
>Sender: news@galaxy.ucr.edu
>Distribution: usa
>Organization: University of California, Riverside
>Lines: 7
>Nntp-Posting-Host: ucrmath
>Is there a FAQ list for talk.politics.guns.  One question I have
>is in what states can you by guns without leaving a paper trail.
>In California there is a 15 day waiting period thus a record of
>you purchase.  I guess what I am getting at is in what states can
>you buy a gun where the state does not get involved.
>

There aren't any.  Anytime you buy a gun at a gunshop you must fill out a 
4473 form that lists who you are, promises that you are not a felon or drug 
addict, and tells where to fund you.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.society.civil-disob
From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Subject: Re: Black Market guns
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:28:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: N/I

In article <1992Sep6.042242.23003@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.221921.18709@dg-rtp.dg.com> meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) writes:
>>One of the functions of the "thin" cartridge case is to seal the firing
>>chamber, by expanding against the chamber walls when the cartridge is
>>fired.  A homemade thick cartridge case will allow hot abrasive gasses
>>to leak around it, possibly damaging the gun and injuring the shooter.
>>It won't work "fine".
>
>Not in a revolver (where the chamber isn't sealed normally) or, I think,
>a bolt action rifle (where the bolt should go a long way towards sealing
>the chamber. I would also guess open-bolt semi-autos would be the
>worst effected. 

Meyers hastily denies all responsibility for the safety of persons
acting on Crary's assurances -- especially the ones prefaced by "I
think", "should go a long way", and/or "I would also guess" ...

Frank, I enjoy your discussions on the legal and constitutional side.
Next step:  get a gun, and learn about reloading.  Email me, I'll help.
--------
Sen. Terry Sanford, who as Governor of North Carolina refused Police protection
to a Civil Rights march, supports your Right to Keep and Bear Sporting Goods.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: cower@csli.stanford.edu (Richard Cower)
Subject: Needed: list of anti-gun legislation
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:08:31 GMT


Does anyone have a list of anti-gun legislation introduced (and voted on)
in Congress, say over the last couple of years?

I find it difficult to follow every vote my Congressman makes (I'm assuming
he does vote), having a list of these bills by S# and HR# would make it 
easy for me to ask him.

thanks...rich

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Subject: Re: Gun Purchase Laws
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:52:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.164206.1993@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep4.194119.4843@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
|> >>None at all (at least not legally): All sales through a dealer
|> >>require filling out a federal record of sale.
|> 
|> >Not all sales have to go through a dealer!  Many states do NOT
|> >track secondary, casual, sales.  Federal law only tracks dealer
|> >sales.  
|> 
|> I've always wondered about the wisdom of such sales: The buyer certainly
|> gets a good deal, but I'd think the seller could get into alot of
|> trouble that way. If the gun were used in a crime, the police could
|> track it as far as the seller. Wouldn't he be in an awkard position
|> of explaining that he wasn't responsible, no longer owned the gun, etc...
|> Without a record of the sale, the police could make his life very difficult.

I would hope that such an individual would go to extremes to make any police
harrassment over such a matter the object of a large civil-rights lawsuit,
charging the police with "harrassment under color of law."

In fact, most police investigators already know that such traces are useless.

Also, it is not often that the weapon used in a crime is retrieved without a
suspect already being in hand, despite Perry Mason reruns.  [I can't seem to find
my reference on this, but BATF testified before Congress sometime in the last
decade that less than 1 in 400 "crimes in which a gun was used" that were solved
were solved due to 4473 registration.  Does anyone have a valid reference?]

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
Start your day with a little civil disobedience.  Call BATF at 1-800-ATF-GUNS or
1-800-RUN-GUNS, tell them what you think of gun grabbers and government employees
that encourage people to narc on their neighbors.  Good for the soul.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Subject: Re: Seattle Buy-Back Update
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:07:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.021926.17120@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <92Sep8.173155edt.47951@neat.cs.toronto.edu> quoctp@cs.toronto.edu (Quoc Tuan Pham) writes:
>>>>Also, there was a woman who turned in her son's (in his late 20s, not a kid)
>>>>$1700 rifle, because she didn't approve of the hobby.
>
>>So did he get his gun back? He could sue these people for possession
>>of stolen property or accessory to theft!
>
>As far as I know, he hasn't: He explained the situation to the San Francisco
>police and they refused to return it. He even tried to get them to
>_arrest_ his mother for thieft, which they also wouldn't do. 

Sort of makes you wonder whose collection the rifle ended up in.....
(Naw! our trusty contabulary would *never* stoop to substituting
garbage for collectibles, would they? :-)

-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 20:51:20 MST
From: Shooting Club at ASU <GUNDEVIL@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: 2nd Amendment Myths
 <1992Sep2.171217.25782@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <1992Sep4.202307.7814@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <1992Sep8.031300.5214@Princeton.EDU>


    Read the article below Paul, this is another example of the "credibility"
    gap suffered by HCI - fond of quoting Ex-Chief Justice Burger.  Perhaps you
    find the HCI spokesman who survived a bullet in the brain more believe-
    able ?

    The January 1992 winner of the NRA's "Letter to the Editor" Contest
    is Robert Fraley of Middletown, New York.  His rebuttal uniquely dis-
    credited the skewed version of our right to keep and bear put forward
    by former Chief Justice Warren Burger.  Fraley's letter, published in
    the TIMES HERALD RECORD, Middletown, pointed out that "Mr. Burger's
    implication that the words, 'people', and 'militia' are synonymous
    can be refuted very simply.  Just go to the first three words of the
    Constitution, where it says, 'We the People' and substitute the word
    'militia' for 'People..."

    Member Fraley's research countering Burger also led him to quote the
    ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA assesment of the former Chief Justice.
    "(Burger's) opinions were not particularly noted either for their
    intellectual consistency or for their comprehensive and systematic
    application of legal principles."

    AMERICAN HUNTER - March 1992 - Official NRA Journal, p50
From: 76330.3412@CompuServe.COM ("John M. Sulak")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Misc news on the growth of the Libertarian Party
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:39:16 GMT

Stolen from Libernet:

Date:     Mon Sep 14, 1992  8:18 pm  EST                                        
From:     Stuart Reges                                                          
          EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414                                      
          MBX: backpack@access.digex.com                                        
...                                                                                
According to U Magazine (college publication), Marrou had gotten 9% of the      
vote in their preliminary tally.  I'm still waiting to hear from them what      
the "official" number is.                                                       
...                                                                                
About New Hampshire: We had another Republican member of the state              
legislature declare himself a Libertarian.  Six of the Libertarian candidates   
for the state legislature got dual nominations, meaning they got both the LP    
nomination and the nomination of a major party.  For example, our 2 incumbent   
members (Wharburton and Rothause) got both the LP nomination and the            
Republican nomination (by write-in), virtually guaranteeing they will win.      



Distribution:
  talk-politics-drugs internet:talk-politics-drugs@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  talk-politics-guns internet:talk-politics-guns@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  talk-politics-misc internet:talk-politics-misc@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  misc.legal internet:misc-legal@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  alt-activism internet:alt-activism@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
  alt.censorship internet:alt-censorship@ucbvax.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.abortion
From: mcbeeb@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Brian Mcbee)
Subject: Re: democratic platform
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 03:30:59 GMT

It seems that Kevin and the RKBAers read the second amendment in very 
different ways, as follows:

Kevin:  If you are a member of a well-regulated militia, and are also
necessary to the security of a free State, then your right to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed.

RKBAers:  A well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a
free State, and therefore the right of the people to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed.

I was going to say something about which way *I* think it should be read,
but if you read the amendment, and compare it with the two alternate versions
above, I think it will be obvious.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.abortion
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Subject: Why Darcy Can't Read  (was Re: democratic platform
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Kevin Darcy Fan Club ... Not! 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:52:23 GMT

Yo, Darcy!  What in tarnation does this have to do with abortion?!?!?! 

In article <1992Sep8.002024.17105@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
- >
- >Perhaps you're just not reading again.
- 
- Then what is the purpose and effect of the first clause, pray tell?

	I don't know ... you tell me.  

   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect 
   Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for 
   the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the 
   Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and 
   establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

	Well, there were riots in LA, so domestic tranquilty was not 
   insured, thus by your reasoning, the whole Constitution is now null 
   and void.  Right?  Violation of the opening clause voids it all, huh?  

	
- meat, perhaps? Sounds like a good case could be made (although I personally 
- wouldn't go quite that far) that a universal RKBA contributes to the 
- INsecurity of a free state, and is therefore completely incompatible with 
- the 2nd Amendment.

	You seem to be confusing universal RKBA with the LAPD.  I know 
   that they both have four letters, but let me give you a clue, since 
   you seem to be lacking your own.  The armed storekeepers (RKBA) in 
   Los Angeles during the riots were defending themselves, their friends 
   and neighbors and contributing to the security of a free state.  The 
   LAPD, on the other hand, by washing their hands (like Pilate) of the 
   responsibility "to protect and serve" were contributing, as you say, 
   "to the INsecurity" in that region.  Further, the Rodney King beating 
   itself contributed to the area insecurity. 

	Let's ban the LAPD, right Darcy?   

-- 
 Jordan M Kossack  |  Don't Miss Meals 
  kossack@qvi.com  |       Bag Your Diet
  +1 713 240 2073  |            Eat More Fast Food 
  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Subject: Re: K-Mart, Iowa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:42:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: N/I

In article <1992Sep2.135546.24472@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:
>
>hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
[ ... ]
>>Attention, K-mart shoppers!  This is a policy of Kmart, not of any government.
>
> Last I checked they don't do this in Colorado.  Must be regional. If
> I lived in Iowa, I would go into K-Mart and buy a box of ammo.  When
> they pulled out the book I would inquire as to what law requires the
> recording.  If they say "state law" or such, tell them bullshit!
> Demand to see the STORE manager.  Start talking about "Invasion of
> privacy", "infringment of the 2nd ammendment". "Lying to you about
> conditions required for the retail sale of ammo", "Civil lawsuit",
> "Filing a complaint with the DA and the BBB". . . . .

You could ask what steps they take to protect the records from
persons who might wish to acquire firearms through burglary ...
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: quoctp@cs.toronto.edu (Quoc Tuan Pham)
Subject: Re: Seattle Buy-Back Update
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:32:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.161344.29470@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

>>Also, there was a woman who turned in her son's (in his late 20s, not a kid)
>>$1700 rifle, because she didn't approve of the hobby.

So did he get his gun back? He could sue these people for possession
of stolen property or accessory to theft!
Newsgroups: 2,3,talk.politics.guns,fido.rtkba
From: dennis@bluemoon.rn.com (Dennis Carney)
Subject: PROponent -- Article "HCI CHARGES..."
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 01:10:12 EDT

HCI CHARGES...

       I'm sure you all know how PRO has to keep its lobbying nose
clean to fend off attacks from the anti-gunners.  I'm sure you
remember the time the FOP investigated our PAC (and found nothing
out of order).  Now, it seems Handgun Control Inc. (HCI) seems to
have decided that lobby laws like gun control laws are for everyone
else, and not for them.
       The Citizen's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
has filed a formal complaint with the United States Attorney
General, William Barr, alleging that HCI was in violation of the
Federal Regulation of Lobbying Act.  It seems that Handgun Control
has failed to file their quarterly lobbying reports for the last
three quarters as required by law.  John A. Hosford, executive
director of CCRKBA pointed out that during this period HCI had been
intensely lobbying for gun control supposedly to reduce crime while
at the same time "they have been thumbing their noses at the
Congress and the American public, as well as the Department of
Justice, by refusing to file their federal lobbying reports."
       Hosford, who is not exactly Mr. Mild, also took time to
personally write every member of Congress pointing out this
flagrant violation of the law.  He expressed hope that they would
turn away from HCI sponsored positions because of this recent
"outrageous behavior."


This is from:
    dennis@bluemoon.rn.com
---- The Soviet Union Died, But the Communists Live On ----
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: A little on self defense... 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:58:22 +0000


In article <1992Sep14.001351.21247@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu writes:

>
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>>A knife is easier to use defensively, and it's easier also to merely
>>disable the person without putting their life in danger.  It's far more
>
>        There is _no way_ to disable a person with a puncture
>weapon (knife or gun) w/o putting his or her life in danger.  For this
>reason, one never uses a knife or gun unless the alternative is to have
>his own safety in danger.  If the attacker's life is a concern to you,
>then you have not reached the point when it would be appropriate to use a
>knife or gun.
>
There is another point, often overlooked.  In using a knife there
is a chance that the attacker may take it off you and use it
against you.  There is no point in giving the attacker a weapon.  Another
factor is the limiting effect of a knife.  As one of my Senseis said
"Whilst the bastard is concentrating on stabbing me with the knife, he
is not likely to kick me in the balls."

Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: montoya@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Mark Montoya)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:08:33 GMT
Subject: Brady B Ruger Softening?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns



 I recently read that Ruger may be softening his position.  Does this mean
that Brady Bill Ruger will resume sales of large magazines and folding stocks
to engineers, milkmen, doctors, professors, and all the other honest 
citizens he stabbed in the back in 1989 and 1992?  Or are these lethal
accessories only available to the LAPD, the US Marshall's office, etc.?


Auf Wiederschauen!

Mark M.


PS  Seriously, has anyone heard if the "civilian sales" of these accessories
for Ruger's castings have been resumed?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: paull@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Robert Paull)
Subject: CA. firearm transfer stats.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:10:05 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

  Here are the CA. gun transaction stats for Jan. thru Dec. 1991 as
published in  'The Firing Line'  which is an official publication of 
The California Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc.

(  Permission for reprinting articles is granted in the publication if the
  CPRA is credited along with the author. No author was listed in the
  publication for the stats. I guess the numbers came from the state
  DROS (dealer Record of Sale) office.)

( I typed in the data and hopefully didn't make any typos, but
make no claims to the accuracy of said data or for any use
of it.) 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 According to an associated flow chart in The Firing Line, the
records for long guns are destroyed after the application is reviewed
with no 'hits'. Records of handgun transfers and records of long gun
transfers that were prohibited  are stored in 'files'.

Simple analysis shows that the denial rate for 1991 was: 1.19%
Enjoy.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      CA. Dealer Record Of Sale Statistics for Jan. - Dec. 1991

Total documents processed: 489,433
  Handguns : 329,133
  Long guns: 160,300

Folders reviewed: 160,621
  Criminal folders : 118,581
  Applicant folders: 42040

Private party sales:
  Long guns: 1618
  Handguns : 4944
  Denials  : 30
------------------------------------
Denials by firearm type:

 Long gun: 1925
 Handgun : 3934

Total denials:

Misdemeanor: 2852
Felonies   : 2500
Other      :  507
	   --------
Total      : 5859  << total denials for 1991 >>
-------------------------------------
Offense code denials:		   

 Dangerous Drug/Narcotic   :  609
 Assault                   : 2967
 Sex crimes                :  101
 Kidnapping                :    7
 Homicide                  :   34
 Vehicle violations
    (including auto theft) :  141
 Theft                     :  137
 Arson                     :   17
 Burglary                  :  338
 Robbery                   :  102
 Forgery/fraud             :  138
 Weapons offense           :   25
 Other                     
  (Includes:
    Conspiracy,
    Accessory,
    Yes answer to question :  105
--------------------------------------
Other denials:
 Federal denials           :  134
 Out of state denials      :  465
 Military denials          :   32
 Under age denials 
        (under 21)         :  286
 8103 W&I denials          :   36
 Juveniles *707b (W&I)	   :   58
 5050's                    :   80
 Probation (condition)     :    8
 Restraining order         :   39
--------------------------------------
From: lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Gun Control Springs from Racist Soil
Keywords: Roy Innis, Wall Street Journal
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:19:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

Can someone mail me a copy of "Gun Control Springs from Racist Soil"
by Roy Innis.  This was an article in the Wall St. Journal.  The copy
in the rkba archive seems to have been lost.  Thanks,
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Newsgroups: 2,3,talk.politics.guns,fido.rtkba
From: dennis@bluemoon.rn.com (Dennis Carney)
Subject: PROponent -- Article "OPEN SHOOT..."
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 01:22:49 EDT

OPEN SHOOT...

       If you could use some inexpensive practice at the range (and
who couldn't), PRO wants to inform all members of an open shoot at
the Grove City range.  It will be held September 10, 1992 from
6:00pm to 10:00pm.  The range cost for an evening of fun is just
$5.00 and all PRO members are invited.
       The Grove City shooting range (Ron Herman, rangemaster) is
located across the street from Grove City Lumber, 3480 Park St.  If
you are lost just ask how to get to the Lumber company.  It is just
before the railroad tracks.  Remember, lead bullets only and no
metal jacketed rounds.


(CARTOON HERE)

(From May 29, 1992 OSU Lantern, used with permission.  Please note
that PRO does not take a position on the abortion issue and this
cartoon is reprinted to show the inconsistent thinking of some gun
control advocates.  The artist, John Campanelli told me this
cartoon was not very popular around the Lantern newsroom.  I told
him that was probably a good sign.)

_____________________________________________________________

...

This is from:
    dennis@bluemoon.rn.com
---- The Soviet Union Died, But the Communists Live On ----
Newsgroups: 2,3,talk.politics.guns,fido.rtkba