From: kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley)
Subject: Re: A question for any MALE prolifer
Organization: Liebe Company
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:12:23 GMT

jamcdani@zia.. ("jennifer mc daniel") writes:

>In article <1992Apr14.045125.3507@liebe.uucp> kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin  
>Brawley) writes:
>> jamcdani@zia.. ("jennifer mc daniel") writes:
>> >I responded to you, didn't I? OK, then...let's assume that a fetus _is_
>> >an actual human being (meaning it has a brain developed well enough to 
>> >think and other fun stuff). Not all born, thinking humans want to live. 
>> >How on earth can you know whether a fetus would want to live?
>> 
>> I find it hard to believe you are serious!  You think that some of these
>> murdered children might have committed suicide (or simply didn't want to
>> live) in the course of their life and that justifies 1,500,000 murders
>> a year!  It would be funny if it weren't so sick.

>Yes, I am serious. Basically, all rights can be waived; if they couldn't, 
>they would only be duties. A fetus can't possibly have the right to life
>because it can't waive it.

You lose again.  Elderly people, people in comas, etc. can't "waive" 
their rights.  Your logic would allow killing them (not to mention 
someone sleeping!).

> 
>> >If a woman gives her baby up for adoption, she ditches her "physical  
>> >responsibility." Or is she just responsible for pumping 'em out and  
>> >nothing else?
>> 
>> The "responsibility" is in not murdering a child.  "Ditches" is your 
>> word. Adoption is a responsible alternative to death.

>So, if she keeps the child, her only "physical responsibility" is to
>not murder it? Are neglect and abuse responsible alternatives to death?

Your words, not mine.  I'm the one being humane here, remember?  The child
should live.  The mother should make a responsible decision as to her own
capabilities of raising said child.

>> >> Right gal.  Alright answer this:  A man get's kicked in the groin by 
>> >> a woman.  A judge decides that YOU have to respond to her in an 
>> >> "equivalent"
>> >> fashion.  What would you do?   (hint: women don't have testicles) 
>> 
>> >Kick her in the crotch, as well. It's nice to know that you're obsessed  
>> >with men's sexual organs as well as those of women.
>> 
>> You lose.  That's hardly "equivalent". 

>Why isn't it? Same location....

Following that logic, you should think it okay to "force" a woman to bear
a child, if the impregnating male were strapped with a contraption to 
simulate carrying the child.  And some sort of electrical device or surgery
was performed on him to simulate childbirth.

>> Not to mention more "emotional" and "personal" stabs to cover the 
>> inability to develop an appropriate response.

>Which is something you'd never do yourself, I'm sure. You're concerned  
>with what women do with their uteri and what other men do with their  
>testicles. Things that are none of your business.

But they are your business, right?  Double standard?

>> >> >Along similar lines, why don't we make a movie, "The Silent Part,"
>> >> >of a brush ripping out a defenseless hair from its sanctuary of a 
>> >> >root ;)
>> >> 
>> >> Ouch!  Bet the hair doesn't struggle to get away from the brush.  The
>> >> baby human struggles till the bitter end.
>> 
>> >How do you know that's not just a reflex? And I again ask you, if an  
>> >unborn baby were able to choose to be born, how are you so certain that 
>> >it would say yes?
>> 
>> You should really obtain a copy of the Silent Scream.  Anyone describing
>> this battle for life as a "reflex" hasn't an objective bone left in 
>> their body. 

>It's not a reflex if the fetus actually, consciously, WANTS TO LIVE.
>If a fetus is capable of wanting to live, it's just as capable of not
>wanting to live. We on the "outside" don't know the fetus' "wishes,"
>but we can know the wishes of the woman.

We're back to the senile, comatose, etc. that you would like the right to
tear apart because of your inability to determine their WANTS.

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