From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Women warriors and male myths (WAS: Military Quote)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 13:10:29 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1avolkINN49k@agate.berkeley.edu> bickis@skmath3.pa.dec.com (M. Bickis) writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.021905.15091@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
>farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>>How is our society served by taking
>>52% of us and saying that we'll be nurturing and taking 48% of us and
>>saying we'll be protective?  Why not have 100% of us being nurturing
>>and protective?
>
>Because everybody can't do everything.  I certainly believe in promoting
>both virtues in all people, but there may come times when we have to
>commit our whole energy to one aspect.  (Isn't this the age of
>specialization? :-))  Rather than having to agonize over what kind of
>person one is going to be, or having it defined by some arbitrary
>authority, it is better to know from the start what kind of commitment
>is expected.  Think of it as drawing straws-- long straw you fight,
>short straw you comfort.  Except instead of straws we draw chromosomes.

This is extremely weak, imo.  Can't a similar argument be made for
keeping the classes in their place?  "We need blue-collar workers,
therefore if you're born into the world as a child of blue-collar
workers, you've drawn a blue-collar worker straw."  

What if I, as a male, prefer to comfort?  What if my personality, my
character, whatever makes me me, is a nurturer and not a fighter?  Or
what if I, as a female, prefer to fight?  Same difference.
Chromosomes decree?

I hate to bring personal experiences into this, but I shall.  My
mother is a nurturer.  She nurtures damn near everyone she comes into
contact.  I've had strangers recognize me by my name and comment that
they know my mother and she's the nicest person they've ever met.
(You get the idea.) 

She's also a fighter, though.  I've seen her ream people out when
they've expected my dad (who has heart disease) to do heavy lifting,
etc. because he's a big man.  I've seen her leave my dad sleeping
while she got out a shotgun to see what those strange noises outside
the house were.

Where do you draw the line?  When does my mother stop being a nurturer
and start being a fighter?  I think she's both.  I think men who are
working hard for their loved ones and would do anything to protect
them are both nurturers and fighters.  The same thing with women.

What makes people be soldiers?  What is the motivation?  We hear that
it's love of country, love of family, perhaps even love of God.  But
isn't it really the care and concern for others?  Perhaps a love and
concern that causes some brutality against the faceless enemy, but it
is still a concern.  I've heard some military men say that in the
final analysis, soldiers do what they do for their buddies.  They
don't want to let them down.  Doesn't that show a nurturing?

>Nor do I.  But I do know that brutality of a sort unthinkable during
>peacetime is justified as necessary during wartime by men [sic] who are
>not at all cruel and evil.

I agree to some extent, and yet I think you minimize the violence that
goes on in everyday America.  In fact, ask me if I think it's worse to
bulldoze dirt over an enemy or pour boiling water over your child, and
I think I'd say the latter.

>Only in modern times, IMHO, has this female courage been discounted.
>Partly, perhaps, because it is no longer *that* serious a risk, and also
>because in North America childbirth has become a rather clinical
>experience, with many men being totally unaware about what it involves.
>It is this courage demanded of women that makes the strongest *valid*
>argument (there are of course many spurious arguments) against women in 
>combat.  To demand "protective" courage of women too would place them in
>double jeopardy.

No, it doesn't at all.  It shows that women have the physical courage
that fighting takes, and that physical courage isn't something that
only men have.

I don't think it's tit for tat here.  I don't think that it's
reasonable to say that nearly every man should be a fighter because
nearly every woman can suffer pain and discomfort during childbirth.



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