HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johankha@tz.ucs.sfu.ca (e_mou)
Subject: Re: Arnis Basics (Re: Single Stick)
Organization: Somewhere in The Twilight Zone, Vancouver, B.C
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:34:06 GMT

> >> > perform a proper irimi movement since the blade moves much faster than a
> >> > person does (i.e. in a randori setting)
> 
> Ok, I give up.  What is is the ``irimi principle''?  In words a euro-fencer
> can understand, please.
> 
> Theo

 
Attack comes.  It has a certain vector; let's say that this is directly 
at you.  At the right moment, you step in slightly obliquely, say 15 
degrees off to one side causing his original attack to miss and thus 
putting you in a favourable position to counter-attack.
 
This 'stepping-in' is one of the basic movements in Aikido for dealing 
with an attack.  At higher levels you practice tachitori (literally:
"sword-taking") where irimi movements are often used in the opening 
stages of a disarming a sword-wielding opponent.  You would be unarmed, 
of course.
From: GE.DWS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Drew W. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:46:50 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan21.170721.4579@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>,
stephas@dgp.toronto.edu (Tamara Stephas) writes:
>
>A dumber story of "oh, you mean I can't do that?" is my own.  On a vacation
>to the US, I picked up a new foil which a friend had ordered for me, and flew
>back to Canada with it.  I'm used to carrying sport equipment when I fly,
>especially other long pointy things like kites.  And fencing is just a sport,
>right?  I mean, a baseball bat is just as deadly.
>
>I didn't want my blade to get bent in checked luggage.  So, not thinking
>anything about it ... Well, I got as far as the carry-on x-ray.  To their
>credit, the airline security people didn't treat me like an attempting
>hijacker.  But they sure did LAUGH at that shape in their x-ray screen.
>"Hey, Joe, come and take a look at THIS !!!  Lady wants to carry a SWORD
>on the plane !!!"
>

I called ahead to United before trying just this trick.  They were
quite adamant about my NOT carrying my foil and sabre on the
airplane.  I dismounted the blades and put them in PVC tubes to
protect them, sealed the ends of the tubes and put them in one of my
checked bags, works just fine and the tubes can be re-used. The
handles and guards got wrapped and packed too.

A few years later I was transporting my Japanese swords across
country, and had boxed them (my father had purchased a gun barrel
that came in a conveniently long box).  Since boxes aren't "normal"
suitcases, the airlines won't take as much responsibility for the
contents, so they ask you what's inside.  I got an interesting look
when I said, nonchalantly:  "Swords."  The attendant looked at me,
wrote it down, gave me another funny look, then went about his
business.

Drew
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: smburke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sean M Burke)
Subject: Re: Foil Wire
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:09:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.190057.18595@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:

>In what way?

Well, I've had problems with the wire itself breaking in standard foil wires.
The wire I'm using came from a friend's brother, who was in the Marines.  I
believe it's some kind of wire-guided missle control wire, and it's VERY tough
to break.  How's that for high-tech foil wiring =)

>Advantage 1:
>
> When you deinsulate a thin plastic-coated wire you stretch the insulation just
> before it breaks.  How much?  Depends on the wire cutter, but it would be
> extremely difficult to make one that was actually perfect enough to not
> stretch the insulation at all.

Well, if you use a flame, and melt the insulation out of the way, this is 
not a problem. . However, this has to be done VERY carefully.



>
>PS: While we're on The Armory Thing i'm gonna publicy contradict two big pieces
>    of Triplette armory advice.
>
>     * Don't burn pressure springs.  Cut them.  A burned spring is not stable.

With the %$#%$@ foil springs I just got from Triplette, I wouldn't do either.
They went light, with no modification by me, in one round of fencing (3 bouts).

I would caution everyone to BEWARE of the springs they get from Triplette.
I'm going to call them sometime and see what the deal is.


-- 
Sean M. Burke   \ "Love is what goes on while you're NOT horny. . ."
Burke.63@osu.edu \_________ "You live and learn.  Or you don't live long."
bf274@cleveland.freenet.edu\______ "While we live, let us LIVE!"
IRC: Hanz (No, I won't pump U up.)\__________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: johankha@tz.ucs.sfu.ca (e_mou)
Subject: thrust vs. cut
Organization: Somewhere in The Twilight Zone, Vancouver, B.C
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:29:18 GMT

 
The attributions are no doubt messed-up, sorry.
 
I asked my SEAL friend about the thrust vs. slash problem, and also
about getting the knife stuck in the body after a thrust.  His response
was something like: "Most knife attacks are not fatal quickly enough,
so in order to make sure that you kill very quickly it has to be a
thrust to a very vital organ, essentially the heart.  We had a special
knife made for us that looked like a narrow pyramid with a handle.  It
had 3 edges and they were all razor-sharp.  The blade was solid, and had
recessions in each side to break the suction.  To make sure it wouldn't
get stuck, I always twisted it on the way in, and also on the way out.
The way that the blade was designed, it typically would pull out a big
plug of flesh when you pulled it out.  It was made for us by Buck, and
I used it *a lot*.  Great knife."
 
D
From: jfilner@reed.edu (Illya)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws
Date: 22 Jan 93 07:09:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan22.070921.20879
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
	One halloween my brother went out as a barbarian with a rather nice

broadsword in NYC.  A couple of transit cops came up two him with their hands
on their guns and demanded the sword.  He gave it to them and he got a recept.
	Just about any knife longer than six inches is illegal to carry in 
NYC.  On the flip side when I was in high school going to meets on the we were
 never had any trouble.  The only thing is that fencing weapons must be 
covered.  We used to slip the blades into clear plastic tubing if we didn't
feel like carrying a large fenceing bag.

			End of line...
				jfilner@reed.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: simon@moscow.uidaho.edu (Mike Simon)
Subject: Fencing in the Eastern Washington, Northern Idaho area
Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:41:01 GMT

Ya, annother post looking for local (to me) fencers.  ANyone at
WSU or U of I reading this group?  Have weapons, will travel...

Mike Simon
simon@moscow.uidaho.edu
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Foil Wire
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:19:15 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <1993Jan26.030946.25138@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> smburke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sean M Burke) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.190057.18595@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:
>
>>In what way?
>
>Well, I've had problems with the wire itself breaking in standard foil wires.
>The wire I'm using came from a friend's brother, who was in the Marines.  I
>believe it's some kind of wire-guided missle control wire, and it's VERY tough
>to break.  How's that for high-tech foil wiring =)

Sounds tempting.

Maybe i could ask you to shoot some my way.

[Perhaps i could have phrased that a bit better ;-) ]

-dk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: ctrbdo@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu (bryan d oakley)
Subject: foil & epee wire
Organization: FAA / Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:33:53 GMT

Lot's of folk are saying they use a match to burn off the insulation
at the end of the foil and epee wires.  I have heard that this
destroys the temper (?) of the wire causing it to be more brittle than
it would be otherwise.  For that reason I never take a match to a
wire.  Anyone have a definitive answer to this comment?

-- 
/'''  ---------------------------------------------------------------
c-OO  Instrument Approach Procedures Automation       DOT/FAA/AMI-230
   \  ---------------------------------------------------------------
  -   Bryan D. Oakley            ctrbdo%iapa@constellation.uoknor.edu
From: OGI9@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA (OGI9)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Sabre regulations
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:49:30 GMT
Organization: McGill University

> Fortunately at the moment, we have an 8 years experienced
>hungarian sabreur, and in the Irish Open at the end of last year, he
>demondstrated for the first time (to most peeps at least) real
>sabre. He was actually retreating quite a bit, and parrying the
>previous champion's attacks (a guy from the north who does a lot of
>coaching up there). It was great to see what real sabre can be like,
>and since there was no threat to Misi (the hungarian), he could
>fence more stylistically than he usually would... beautiful. I've
>been fencing sabre for a short while now on and off, and he's really
>the only reason I've taken it up again. It has such great
>potential.
>
>MNSsio

 I'm glad to see that you have had a chance to see good sabre.  So
many people believe that there is nothing more to sabre than run,
slash, and scream.  Although I suppose some people enjoy that, I
find it much more satisfying to succesfully parry-riposte.  I just
returned from an elite tournament (the Desjarlais) and although I
I did very poorly it was still a great experience to watch really
good sabreurs in action.

Dave S.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: norvell@csri.toronto.edu (Theo Norvell)
Subject: Re: Sabre regulations
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:22:31 GMT

In article <sprooney.727554521@unix1.tcd.ie> sprooney@unix1.tcd.ie (Simon Rooney) writes:
>
>>Well, I guess the desire to score touches and win bouts overrules any
>>attempt at real style.  Kinda sad but true.  
>There I have to disagree. I'm a stylist. I don't fence or teach to
>win competitions. I fence to look and feel good.

The best form follows function.  The only sincere way to look good is
to be good.  Being good in fencing is scoring touches.  This is the
essence of the sport: hit without being hit.  Fencing is far more in
the nature of tennis than of figure skating or synchro swimming.

Of course winning competitions is not the point either.  It is the
trying to win, the trying to do your best at the sport within its
terms.  Do this and you will also look and feel good.

Theo

P.S. Wearing good fitting and clean whites, doesn't hurt either. :-)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: alight@rock.concert.net (Alan R Light -- Personal Account)
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws
Summary: 2nd Amendment applying to swords (USA)
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:58:54 GMT

In article <1jmt6gINNf63@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes:
>Do any of the American fencers here know if the 2nd Amendment has been 
>applied to the case of wearing a sword in public?  I assume the laws 
>vary from state to state.

It's been a while, I hope I get the facts right.  It was in Chicago in
1916, a group demonstrating in Chicago had various weapons in their
possession, including swords.  The Supreme Court (in one of only four
decisions regarding the 2nd amendment) held that despite Chicago's laws
against carrying weapons, the 2nd amendment protected the right of the
protesters to peacefully carry weapons, on the condition that those
weapons were weapons of war.  The leader of the group got some jail time
because sawed-off shotguns were carried.  Apparently the Supreme Court
was not aware that sawed-off shotguns were used in trench warfare.

So, according to this decision, any weapon can be owned and carried in
the United States if that weapon has ever been used in warfare.  Of
course, if you try to do so, numerous local laws will infringe on our
right to keep and bear arms.  Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has not
heard a case regarding the 2nd amendment since this case in 1916.

Which reminds me.  I get sick of hearing how we need weapons for
hunting.  The founding fathers didn't write the 2nd amendment for that
purpose.  The right to keep and bear arms goes back to 1215 (and the
Magna Carta) and is intended to keep a central authority (such as the
Federal Government today) from having to much power.  In short, the
2nd amendment is the right to rebellion.  I wish those gun-control
idiots would get that through their heads.

Alan

I want me an atom bomb!
-- 
Alan Light | "Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man
Waxhaw, NC | who puts his nose out of doors.  The length of my life
           | and the day of my death were fated long ago."  Skirner
      <<< alight@rock.concert.net -or- alight@wheaton.edu >>>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS)
Subject: Re: Sabre regulations
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:28:11 GMT

In article <sprooney.727554521@unix1.tcd.ie> sprooney@unix1.tcd.ie (Simon Rooney) writes:
>>Well, I guess the desire to score touches and win bouts overrules any
>>attempt at real style.  Kinda sad but true.  
>There I have to disagree. I'm a stylist. I don't fence or teach to
>win competitions. I fence to look and feel good. My 3 most serious
>relationships started off coz I "Look good on the piste". Need I say
>more? *:)
>

It takes two (in more ways than one! ;-)

-Patricia
 penfold@rock.concert.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity.  Those who would
like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity."  --Nietzsche
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: johankha@tz.ucs.sfu.ca (e_mou)
Subject: Re: Sabre regulations
Organization: Somewhere in The Twilight Zone, Vancouver, B.C
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:27:32 GMT

> 
> Oh no!  A parallel (of a sort) to the dreaded foil flick!  ;-)
> 
> Well, I guess the desire to score touches and win bouts overrules any
> attempt at real style.  Kinda sad but true.  
> 
> So what's the dread tactic in epee?
> 
> -Patricia
>  penfold@rock.concert.net
 
Hitting the bell guard with coupe, but slightly further along so that the 
blade will hit the guard, bend on it, and the tip will curve in to hit 
the hand just behind the bell. 
Very frustrating when you thought you were still in opposition.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: ctrbdo@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu (bryan d oakley)
Subject: Re: Foil Wire
Organization: FAA / Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:07:19 GMT

>>>>> On 25 Jan 93 19:00:57 GMT, king@reasoning.com (Dick King) said:
Dick> When i used to fence foil i used wire wrap wire to recycle
Dick> contact points.  It did work satisfactorily, but when i went to
Dick> epee i found myself using the commercial product.  With the
Dick> commercial contact point / wire assemblies, my usual failure
Dick> mode is Extreme Lack of Point Control.  When the point and
Dick> feeble go skittering into the next strip while i'm left holding
      ^^^^^^

Hmmmm.  Foible?  Feeble foible.  Feebles foible but they don't fall
down (weak reference to old US commercial for 'weebles').  

While fencing foil, fainting Frank feints fairly with a feeble foible.
If fainting Frank feints fairly with a feeble foible, how many fair
feints can fainting Frank feint? :-)


-- 
/'''  ---------------------------------------------------------------
c-OO  Instrument Approach Procedures Automation       DOT/FAA/AMI-230
   \  ---------------------------------------------------------------
  -   Bryan D. Oakley            ctrbdo%iapa@constellation.uoknor.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: alight@rock.concert.net (Alan R Light -- Personal Account)
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:41:53 GMT

In article <38754@cbmvax.commodore.com> jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) writes:
>Regarding the 2nd amendment article (1916 decision), are you sure about
>that?  I'd think that if "weapons of war" are allowed, then certainly the
>automatic weapons laws wouldn't stand.

Yes, I am sure of that point.  A few details may be fuzzy, but when I looked
up the case I was delighted to find that rationale.  I also have the uneasy
feeling that we may be needing the 2nd Amendment sometime pretty soon.  As
for the "Automatic Weapons" laws, those were dreamed up during the 1960's, by
a more "liberal" (authoritarian) government than existed in 1916.  And of
course you have all noticed that congress does not pay much attention to the
Constitution anyway.

Alan
-- 
Alan Light | "Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man
Waxhaw, NC | who puts his nose out of doors.  The length of my life
           | and the day of my death were fated long ago."  Skirner
      <<< alight@rock.concert.net -or- alight@wheaton.edu >>>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: mabuckle@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Buckley)
Subject: Re: Foil Wire
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:59:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.175507.25740@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> smburke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sean M Burke) writes:
>Does anyone know why the insulator on foil wire is cotton?  I found some 
>plastic coated wire of the proper gauge, and have rewired 3 blades with it.
>So far this wire has proved to be far superior to the standard cotton 
>insulated wire.
>
>Is there any reason that foil wires sold as such are cotton insulated, or is 
>it just because it's cheaper?
>
I've run into three distinct types of wire. The standard cotton, plastic
(probably teflon), and 'laquered' (transparent insulation). I quite dislike
the non-cotton for a number of reasons:

When RE-wiring a blade, you must pull the wire out of the groove. I found that
the wire split the teflon insulation leaving it behind. One more piece of crud 
to clean out. The cotton is strong enough to come with the wire (and often
pulls most of the glue with it).

I often just take a match to the insulation of the wire and sand off the ash
rather than try and strip such a delicate wire. The plastic and laquer leave
nasty residues.

The laquered wire sure looks flashy but I find it difficult to strip the wire
to make contact. Every time, I think I have it all only to get and intermittent
socket.

The cotton soaks up the glue which (unscientifically) I think might give better
adhesion.

Because wet cotton is darker that dry, I can easily see where I've missed
gluing the wire (without getting my face too close to a blade that is just
waiting to jump at me).

Or maybe I'm just traditional.

	Mike
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: kreinddm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (David M Kreindler)
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:28:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.170721.4579@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> stephas@dgp.toronto.edu (Tamara Stephas) writes:

[A dozen or so lines omitted.]
>A dumber story of "oh, you mean I can't do that?" is my own.  On a vacation
>to the US, I picked up a new foil which a friend had ordered for me, and flew
>back to Canada with it.  I'm used to carrying sport equipment when I fly, 
>especially other long pointy things like kites.  And fencing is just a sport,
>right?  I mean, a baseball bat is just as deadly.
>
>I didn't want my blade to get bent in checked luggage.  So, not thinking 
>anything about it ... Well, I got as far as the carry-on x-ray.  To their 
>credit, the airline security people didn't treat me like an attempting 
>hijacker.  But they sure did LAUGH at that shape in their x-ray screen.
>"Hey, Joe, come and take a look at THIS !!!  Lady wants to carry a SWORD
>on the plane !!!"
>
>- Tamara

Uh-huh.  Sounds rather like a story of my own.  However, the airport in
question was Heathrow, the airline El-Al, and the item an epee,
well-wrapped in lots'n'lots of cardboard packing.  It's amazing how
much an epee looks like a small rocket on an X-ray screen....

In my own defence, I *had* asked them about it: [Me:] "Oh, by the way:
there's a sword in that box over there.  What should I do about it?"

[Security Guard, sounding rather bored:] "Huh?  Oh.  Don't worry about it."

[Me, puzzled:] "Ok." 

I wasn't *too* surprised when, around thirty seconds later, from over by the
X-ray scanners, I heard a thoroughly indignant voice yelling,
"What the *HELL*?!?!?!" 

8->

Cheers,
	DK



-- 
kreinddm@ucunix.san.uc.edu -------------------------------------------------

"Sometimes you're the windshield / Sometimes you're the bug...." - Dire Straits
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: stephas@dgp.toronto.edu (Tamara Stephas)
Subject: Re: Transporting weapons. (Was: Re: Weapon carrying laws)
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:27:50 GMT

casc@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Cas Caswell) writes:

> Yup a baseball bat is just as deadly [as a foil]... and they won't let 
> you carry it on the plane either.

> I had the opportunity to watch security stop someone who had a boxed, 
> wrapped christmas present that just happened to be a bat in their carry-on.
> They were most polite... but the bat had to go under the aircraft....

Interesting!  I guess I was thinking of walking around town with either
a baseball bat or a foil ... my impression was the latter would be more
likely to elicit suspicious looks, just because it's less common --- and
more associated in people's minds with weaponry.

But anyway, I was thinking "wow, that's interesting.  Who'd have thought?"
about the baseball bat, and then it dawned on me:   was it an aluminum one?

Sorry, guess I'm getting a bit outside the topic of _fencing_ here...

- Tamara
  stephas@dgp.toronto.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:52:52 EST
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Weapon carrying laws


In article <C16nKE.ECJ@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, kreinddm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (David M
Kreindler) says:

>(Hey, folks: do me a favour and *don't* report back to me with stories
>like, "Hey -- I tried carrying a razor-sharp halbred down Yonge street,
>and now I'm doing 90 days in the Don Jail...."  I'm really not
>interested, and I *am* sure you could get yourself arrested with just a
>little bit of imagination...  8-)  Who, me, nervous about posting
>something like this?!?  Naaaahhhh....)

A couple of years back me and one of me droogs had occasion to be carrying
live steel 7' naginatas through town. The police didn't bat an eye.

However, we did pass by a large group of heavy-metal spikes-and-leather punks,
and they visibly cringed back out of our way.

Ah, those were the days, when the hippies carried polearms and the punks
cowered  ...
                          Therion