From: dbayer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Daniel L Bayer)
Subject: Re: Ohio State Football - No fun, no future to it's players and recrui
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:17:20 GMT

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE HORRIBLE GRAMMAR IN THIS POSTING.  It hurts my eyes!

In article <1993Jan4.231023.12529@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mzhao@magnus.acs.o
hio-state.edu (Min Zhao) writes:
>In article <DOEL.93Jan4151417@bbq.bae.bellcore.com> doel@bae.bellcore.com (Mic
hael Doel) writes:
>>
>>
>>Oh no, here we go again.
>
>"Oh no, here we go again."
> 
>  right, what you just said just about summarized Ohio State's football progra
m.
> 
>
>>>   Roger Harper, right on the Citrius Bowl field after losing: I'm out here 
!
>>> 
>>>   Smith: This guy is a great talent, but what does he have to show for ?  I
f
>>> we had a winning program,
>>
>>excuse me, but 8-3-1 is a winning program.  It's also our best record under
>
>     Yes, it is. No doubt about that, especially on paper. We all learned 
>arithmatics, we know 8 is better than 3, and we are smart enough to know
>8-3 implys we won more times than we lost.
>    But ask the players on the team, ask the seniors, ask if they have won
>anything.  Ask how they really feel in their heart. Their heart says we NEVER
>won. And that is a disappointing feeling ! And that hurts the inside of 
>people like Kline, Cook, Herbstreit when they leave Ohio State. Remember, 
>they didn't come here for their Master Degrees or PhD degrees like we did 
>when we went to school. They came here to play football, to beat Michigan,
>to go to Rose Bowl, to become champions.  Some people have told me to put
>things into perspective. And that is the perspective.
>
>>Cooper (and an improvement over last year which was an improvement over the
>>previous year).  Ohio State is not some insignificant nobody on the map of
>>college football.
>    
>   Not totally yet...
>
>>  We're still a highly respect power.
>         ^^^^^ 
>    Respected ? Sure. Highly respected ?  Maybe.  But that's not Cooper's
>credit to take.
>    Cooper's credit is in making that "still" into "used to be"
>     
>>
>>
>>>                            Smith would benefit by staying in school and 
>>> showcase his abilities next season (and maybe the year after too). There
>>> is nothing for him to stay for (as far as football is corcerned).
>>
>>Smith has nothing to stay for?!?  How about a good shot at a Big10
>>Championship next year?  How about being amongst the group considered early
>>favorites for the Heisman trophy?  How about another full year to show he's
>>ready for the pros?
>
>    How fast we forget !  Ask Chris Stassen and a few others, didn't they
>say last (92) should be Cooper's year ?  Wasn't Smith considered a Heisman
>candidate early in the season ? 
> 
>    "Oh no, here we go again".
> 
>   What Smith and many of the team members have seen are quite different
>from what you see.  They don't see no future here in Ohio State. They 
>have experienced disappointment after disappointment, grief after grief,
>reality after reality. 
>
>>
>>
>>>   John Cooper and the Ohio State football program have done grave injustice
>>> to Smith as well as all the other talents that came to Ohio State to grow.
>>
>>Phoey!  Tell that to Steve Tovar who led Ohio State's best defense in years.
>>Or tell it to Greg Smith and Brian Stablein who earned conference honors
>>after walking on.  Or tell it to Kirk Herbstreit who came to Ohio State
>>known strictly as an option quarterback only to finish the regular season
>>with Ohio State's all-time completion percentage record.
> 
>     Just think, maybe a Big Ten championship or two, a significant win
>(on TV) or two, a bowl victory or two, can help to increase these players
>pro stock ? 
>     Suppose we had gone 11-0 this year, (which we could), maybe we would 
>have a few more All Big-Tens and All-Americas ?  Don't you think so ? Maybe
>someone like Robert Smith or Steve Tovar might actually win an award or two ?
>Don't you think they have the atheletic skills ?
>     Maybe you still remember football is a team sport. A player is as good 
>as your team is. What is all the talk about Gino Torreta these two days ? He
>has had a winning program in Miami to help him shine ! A championship ring
>to let him show ! A good record to speak of !
>
>>>   I can't help to feel for the kids. They came to Ohio State, not just 
>>> because it's Ohio State, to be part of a proud tradition, now the 
>>> tradition is all but losing it's shine. They came here to win games, 
>>> to improve their skills and showcase their talents, and some of them
>>> to go on to the next level. Now all these kids will have to live all 
>>> their lives to regret their decision to have come to Ohio State, to 
>>> live with the fact that they never win anything of significance at 
>>> Ohio State, to live with the facts that their potential for better future
>>> in the NFL have not been helped at all, if not hurt by playing at 
>>> Ohio State.
>>
>>You make it sound as if the players have nothing to do with it - like
>>they're little pawns in some coaching game.  The players have everything to
>>do with it.  John Cooper didn't lose to Illinois this year, the players did.
>>John Cooper didn't exhibit sloppy tackling against Georgia, the players did.
>>John Cooper didn't play uninspired against Wisconsin, the players did.  The
>>players aren't regretting their decision to come to Ohio State, they're
>>regretting the missed block or tackle that caused the loss.
> 
>   So can I be coach ?  Or maybe you will make a better coach ? Sure, they are
>all the players doing.  But coach's job is to make sure they don't do 
>certain things and do certain things, and in the end, to win games. 
>
>    How do you know they are not regreting their decision to come to Ohio
>State and not winning anything, no beating Michigan, no Rose Bowl, not 
>much anything else.  You don't seem to listen to what the players on this
>team have to say, do you ?  I even quoted some in my original article, you
>simply deleted those.
>
>>
>>Ohio State this year exhibited the talent and preparation to beat every team
>>they played.  That's the coach's job.  After that, it comes down to luck and
>>execution.  Don't blame the coach when these two don't go your way.  Blame
>>the players for poor execution. 
> 
>   That's Cooper's coaching style, point the blame finger at the players. 
>(to be fair, Cooper has been better the last two years than the first two,
> he hasn't blamed the players that much in his news conferences after a 
> loss as he used to)
> 
>>>   I am also tired of the argument that firing Cooper now will hurt 
>>> recruiting.  Who are you cheating ?  If I am an outside coach, be it 
>>> Gary Moller, Joe Paterno, or Lou Holtz, recruiting a prep star in Ohio
>>> (let's not even consider outside Ohio), all I need to tell the kid is,
>>> "Do you really want to go to Ohio State ? " Do you really want to play
>>> for John Cooper and his Ohio State team ?" "And you know what means, don't 

>>> you ?"
>>
>>To which Cooper answers "we've improved every year I've been here."  Since
>>we finished second in the Big10 this year, I think the pattern shows that
>>we're competing for the conference title with regularity now.  If you really
>>think Cooper is the problem (i.e. you must think the program is worse off now
>>than it was when he arrived) then what is the solution?
>>
> 
>    To which, Gary Moller will say, "look, kid, was Robert Smith a good
>player ?  Did he win anything ?   Was Bryan Cook good in High school ?  
>you see where he is now ?  Don't you want to follow Desmond Howard's 
>step ?  Don't you think we (Michigan) has done good for Elvis Grbac ?"
> 
>    To which, Lou Holtz will say, "look, you can come to Norte Dame and
>you know for sure you'll be on a winning team, among the nations top, 
>and you know why Michigan consider us and Michigan State as their real
>rivals ?  "
>
>    To which, they kid will think again, "do I really have to play for 
>Ohio State just because I was born a Buckeye ?"
>
>>>   (too add to the point, did you read the story that right after Larry
>>> Smith's departure and John Robinson's hiring, a couple stars in that 
>>> team immediately announced that they will stay in school)
>>
>>John Robinson is an ex-USC coach with lots of experience in the pros.  This
>>is a situation very similar to Bill Walsh returning to Stanford.  Who fits
>>this bill for the Buckeyes?  Answer: nobody.  Your anecdotal evidence that
>>recruiting and team continuity wouldn't be hurt by a coaching change is
>>baseless.
>>
>   Continuity of what ?  I never understand that reasoning !  You already
>know someone can't do the job, and you want keep him for continuity !
>If I am a prep star, I sure don't want that continuity if for whatever
>reasons I decide to play for Ohio State (that's if I decide to play for
>Ohio State). I sure what a change for someone that can help me grow, a 
>change for someone who will guide me to winnings and championships and
>trophies and sucessess.  Yes, I want change, I don't want continuity of
>failure ! 
>>
>>>   Firing Cooper will only bring hope, and hope is what all is left here 
>>> in the state of Ohio, for the Ohio State players who already came
>>> here, for the Ohio young kids who are born to bleed Buckeye blood, for
>>> the millions of Ohioians who used to take pride in their Ohio State Buckeye
>>> football.
>>
>>Only if you can hire Bill Walsh, Lou Holtz, or resurrect Woody Hayes.  Just
>>about anyone else would reveal the act for the cowardice which precipitated
>>it.
> 
>   That's unknown, since we don't have not fired Cooper or hired anyone yet.
>But Cooper is known, he can't won anything of significance.
> 
>   If I run my own bussiness, I always give a guy a chance. If I know after 
>a reasonable period he is good, I keep him, if I know he is not, I let him
>go and bring another one whom I think in my best judgement is the best
>available at that time. Bill Walsh is good, Lou Holtz is good, Joe Smith
>can probably be good, John Doe could be the one. The bottom line is, 
>John Cooper is not.
>   There is no cowardice in that. That's just how things are supposed to be
>run.
>
>