HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: UMass-Lowell Comp. Sci. Dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:35:40 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.211653.23616@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:


   CFV can be posted as early as November 12 if the name selection does not
   delay it. This will put part of the voting period in December. I agree 
   that December should be avoided for voting period.

   Perhaps a name selection RFD be posted first by end of October to carry us 
   upto November.  Then a regular RFD with the selected name be posted to carry 
   upto end of December. This way CFV may be posted in early January to last
   for a full 30 days - thus results would include votes until early February.


This sounds like a good plan as far as I can tell, but there will be a lot of
schools opening near the end of January as well. People at those universities
will not have enuf (it is intentional. dont flame me for misspellings) time to
go thru the whole discussion and cast their vote. Other then that I agree with
the general schedule.

   > 
   > For starters, how about the team of Purna, Ron, Satyen, and Mehul
   > with any interested volunteers contacting them.

   I would really like to see a couple of women being part of the team.
   I am not sure if Mehul is a man or woman :-) (Mehul, no offense meant).

How many women do you know who would have a nickname "raja lakhan" ?  anyways
no offense was taken. I am a full-blooded guy definately

   I would like to recommend inclusion of at least one of (Amirthi,
   Preeti and Trina), provided she agrees ...

   Asides from that, Saeed Jafferi would also be an excellent addition ...

   Alok

--
===============================================================================
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi        |  UMass-Lowell Dept. of Computer Science
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu      |  SnailNet: 754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: ...!harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |            Lowell, MA 01850-1804
BITNET: msanghvi%cs.ulowell.edu@{cunyvm.cuny, mitvma.mit, talcott.harvard}.edu

Duct tape is like the force.  It has a light side, and a dark side, and
it holds the universe together ...
		-- Carl Zwanzig
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Mother/Father roles (was Re: Indian women in the Workplace India v/s USA)
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:37:42 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Distribution: na

c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:

>If I didn't acknowledge my Indianness, why would I be wasting my time
>on acuai?

I wanted to say the same thing to Kateri/Amirthi. She can't really be
that much against II and IA. Why else would she be wasting her time on
acuai?

Sumitro
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Another List... :-)
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:01:15 GMT
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

(Insert standard joke disclaimer here)

I was telling Paul about these lists, and he reminded me of one he
wrote up a long time ago...

From the .plan of Paul A. Estin:

Top ten disadvantages of having a cute girlfriend of Sri Lankan descent:

10. Hard to memorize the pronunciation of all her middle names
9.  Black guys who seem to have this fetish for Indian women
8.  White guys who seem to have this fetish for Indian women
7.  No chance of getting a better tan than she has
6.  Indian/Tamil parents who don't realize their kid is American
5.  Can't remember which of her relatives know I exist
4.  Have trouble pronouncing "Tamil" properly
3.  Feel obligated to read Arthur C. Clarke's _The Fountains of Paradise_
2.  Really stupid people who think she's Hispanic
1.  When listening to reports of Sri Lankan civil war, have difficulty
	keeping straight face when hearing about "Tamil Tigers"

(*please* don't get offended by that last one...you gotta admit it's a
funny name...)

 - Amirthi
-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: hdeshma@eos.ncsu.edu (HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE)
Subject: Re: Are IAs close-minded ? (Re: Parental authority
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:31:04 GMT

In article <samaddar.718654431@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye) writes:
>
>>This 'long hair' thing always amazes me. 
>>I used to think that people who grow/shape their hair in certain way are
>>doing that to get some attention from their peers. Mainly because this
>>reasoning fits irrespective of the culture and gender of the person.
>>But then I realized that many of them really choose it as a 'convinience'.
>>Those who grow them grow them beacause it saves on haircut money and those
>>who cut them short do it because short hair are easy to take care of.
>
>You are being very charitable. Your original thinking was closer to
>truth. If you believe that "convenience" and saving money are the reasons,
>then check out their clothes and shoes. I don't mind kids trying to get
>attention/appreciation by peers, adults also do that. But why not try
>getting this attention by becoming athletic, good in studies, arts, etc,
>instead of gimmicks like long hair, ear-rings, etc.

Because, dear moderator of dress code/appearence cop, they like it.
If i like to wear lizards on a chain, around my neck, or wear a 
psychedelic shirt, thats my business. Whether you are impressed/unimpressed/
"mind it"/"dont mind it", is your business. Your question could be
asked back to you, why dont you get attention by becoming wearing
earrings, growing your hair long,etc,instead of doing "conventional attention
getting things" like "being good in studies( how many people's attention( other
than profs) have you got becos of that?","arts"(<- i never understood it,
so i can't attack it),"etc"..<--(interesting attention getter;))

i dont think, personal appearance should be anybody else's problem..it's a 
choice. Come to think of it, if everyone was dressed the same, it would
make a boring world.
>
>Sumitro


-harsh
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Harshavardhan Deshmane, ECE Dept.                   hdeshma@croc.ece.ncsu.edu
North Carolina State University.                    hdeshma@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:18:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.144611.4199@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
>============================
> raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>>How about a core team of Amirthi, Manish, Mehul, Satyen and Tapesh 
>>with Satyen in the lead?
>
> wait a sec.
>
> to "soc," or not to "soc"
>  that is the question
>   someone, pleez tell me
>    without too much sound and fury
>     why we want to move from "alt" group to "soc" group


Although some alt groups sustain a lot of traffic, such as the groups 
in the alt.sex hierarchy, they are not carried by all sites, not even 
all .edu sites. However, many sites carry all the soc groups. The difference 
in propagation was clearly seen in the propagation statistics posted 
earlier. Thus a newsgroup in the soc hierarchy  will travel to more sites, 
be accessed by more people, will presumably get a wider cross-section of 
readers who will presumably also enlighten us with their wisdom and 
experiences.
 
As I see it, that is the basic argument in favor of moving this group 
to the soc hierarchy. 

As to what happened to s.c.i.a. - it was 'withdrawn' by the Usenet
powers that be. That it nevertheless figured in the propagation statistics
seems to me an indication that the statistics are not perfectly reliable.


--Satyen
From: saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in Western shows/films/etc. (was Re: Sprint commercials)
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:02:46 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Raghavan says:

|> Sorry about that. Honest mistake. I was typing in hurry and switched
|> your name with Mr. Jaffrey, the actor.

No biggie. :-)

|> Any good alternatives to clubbing everybody under 'indian' or
|> 'asian-indian'?
|> 
|> South-asian? indian.pre1947? ....

One note -- indian.pre1947 didn't include ALL areas of the Indian
subcontinent.  Specifically, Afghanistan (to my knowledge).  Yes, there is a
soc.culture.afghanistan, but where does that leave those americans of Afghani
origin?

Well, although one can't claim the discussion is complete, it seems South
Asian would be most appropriate.  Many organizations at universities DO call
themselves the South Asian Organization (or whatever).  

So, let's see:

	soc.culture.south-asian.american

Looks good, but I still see some confusion stemming from that title.  Don't
you think that when new USENET users first look through the group listings
that many will think this title includes those of southeast asian origin?  How
about: 

	soc.culture.indian-subcontinental.american

Bleekkhhh.  Way too long.  

Although I personally use the term desi, I don't think something like

	soc.culture.desi.american	or	soc.culture.desi-amrikan

would work at all (and that goes for bharatiya as well).  Can we somehow vote
on this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--saeed jaffer        		so this is what i came here for?
saeed@watson.ibm.com  		i don't think i can play your game
saeed@athena.mit.edu  		you may not agree with what i say
				none of us are perfect in every way
						-J. Cavalluzzo	
----------------------------------------------------------------------					
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: looking for attention?? (was Re: Are IAs close-minded ?)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:32:07 GMT

Amirthi writes:

>I don't know.  I think it's very difficult for men in this country to
>wear feminine clothing without being branded as homosexual or
>transvetites.

Men can't wear feminine clothing but women can wear masculine clothing.  It's
worse to be a sissy than a tomboy.

That's because being female is looked down upon, while being male is to
be desired in America.


Manish

                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:57:54 GMT

In article <MSANGHVI.92Oct12213540@cs.ulowell.edu>, msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi) writes:
> 
>    I would really like to see a couple of women being part of the team.
>    I am not sure if Mehul is a man or woman :-) (Mehul, no offense meant).
> 
> How many women do you know who would have a nickname "raja lakhan" ?  anyways
> no offense was taken. I am a full-blooded guy definately

Sorry for the confusion. I think it was 'Mehul' that confused me.
FYI, Mehul could be a name of woman in Hindi-land.

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: IA Women List (since you asked...:-)
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 18:09:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.194405.14558@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>This is a joke.  This is only a joke.

What a cruel one indeed! If I were to visualize a woman that has been
described in so many obedient ways, where will I look? India? Not a
good choice, given the women's movement there whose passionate banners
are written on the back of a man, held horizontal by two vertical men,
using a taut lungoti. I wouldn't even think about Kuwait, even though
all those things may apply to the veiled women of the middle east (by
the way, you forgot to mention that you will wear a veil and if
necessary a virginity lock). Saudi Arabia? No way, there the women
have progressed enough to receive lessons from their male professors
face-to-face instead of a closed circuit TV. France? The women out
there can do all of these subservient services to their men in
exchange for abstinance from sex, or whatever that hurts the man,
including taking a shower and not wearing any perfume or lingerie just
before making love. Japan? I guess, the women there have been blessed
by the system that over-works their women, until 10 p.m. or so, who
don't have to put up with their husbands' schedules and temperments
(but I read somewhere that Japanese women wait for their husbands to
come home from work, before they have their dinner, as a matter of
courtesy and to show their affection to them; so if Amriti is still
deluding herself into believing that Indian women are forced to wait
for their husband then she will be disappointed because women in India
do(or did) a lot of weird things, like: M.K. Gandhi's mom starved
until the sun showed up -- this has nothing to do with the concept of
satyagraha, although it can be argued that M.K.Gandhi inherited this
trait from her but used it for a different cause--and Mira Bhai,
another women, used to think she was married to the idol of
Krishna--this sure is a good way to avoid all mankind, especially
those who aren't dead or mummified if not idolized). 


So where will I look in my quest to find this woman Amriti has just
described? Right here in the United States. But, are you crazy...? In
the GOP platform...out of your mind? Under Marilyn Quayle's
dress...you sure are delinquent...'cos I heard she might be carrying
this super-conservative girl who meets Amriti's
specifications ...  is this super-conservative girl
Indian?...depends on what Kevin Costner was doing on the night Dan
Quayle was accusing Murphy Brown...you hard-to-hear nut, I am talking
about Asian Indian...then it all depends upon where Salman Rushdie was
hiding during his sojourn to Columbia...someone must have passed that
doll, made in India, to Salman who gave it to Marilyn, who brought it
to the GOP convention.  For once, they are passing a doll instead of a
buck.


Murthy
Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:938 soc.culture.indian:34127 soc.culture.pakistan:15805 soc.culture.bangladesh:5219
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: USENET Posting Guidelines (Re: Abuse of USENET Privileges)
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:38:23 GMT
Organization: AT&T


Folks,
       Here is the latest primer on how to work with the USENET
community ...

Alok
*****************************************************************************
From att!cs.purdue.EDU!spaf Sun Sep 20 00:17:28 1992
From: pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: To Marry (Indian) or Not?
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:56:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In article <1992Oct12.144745.12592@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>> >Look at the Jewish for example. They always try to marry

>> >Look at the Chinese. Chinese stick together with chinese and 

I don't know enough about the Jewish and Chinese communities
to comment, but consider the Parsi communities in 
Bombay, Karachi, Toronto and parts of the U.S. (Having
one Parsi parent and several Parsi friends, i feel slightly
more qualified to comment on this  :)

In their extreme orthodox form, Parsi's, in their efforts
to preserve their culture, wont recognise marriages outside
their faith. Nor will they accept the children of one Parsi
and one non-Parsi parent into the faith. 

This leads to massive inter-breeding in a very small 
community, resulting in all kinds of genetic problems
including a high incidence of mental retardation 
and autism. ( Yes, all those jokes about "mad Parsees"
sadly have a grain of truth in them)

This, to me, constitutes one darn good reason not
to stick exclusively to one's own community!
(or else, widen one's definition of community--
Integrate, as was Amirthi's suggestion)

More liberal Parsi's recognize inter-faith marriages,
but will not allow the non-Parsi spouse, or anyone
for that matter, to convert. In an attempt to increase
their numbers, they will allow children of such marriages
to become Parsi, but only if the father is Parsi. 
Also, once a Parsi woman marries outside her faith,
not only are her children denied membership, but
she is considred to be a non-practising member,
and is denied burial rites (something that the
Parsi's consider to be of unusually great importance)

Talk about sexism!

>A paternalistic traditional culture also has a positive side.
>Do you understand what the positive side of it is ?

The positive aspects, (if any) are far outweighed,
in my opininon, by the henious by-products
of your "paternalistic traditional culture" like 
female infanticide, feet-binding and bride-burning
to name a few. 

Equality of women is a fundamental HUMAN issue.
When you deny it, its not just another "ism"
youre guilty of, but a deteriotation of the 
quality of life for all. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Preeti Anissa Gholap ^ CTP Inc. ^ 304 Vassar St. ^ Cambridge MA 02139 USA ^
^ pghol@ctp.com        ^          ^ (617)374-9800  ^                        ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Parsi faith (was Re: To Marry (Indian) or Not?)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:42:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.172320.42075@watson.ibm.com> saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer) writes:

Preeti Gholap = > >

> > The positive aspects, (if any) are far outweighed,
> > in my opininon, by the henious by-products
> > of your "paternalistic traditional culture" like 
> > female infanticide, feet-binding and bride-burning
> > to name a few. 
>
>Actually, I would argue that these aren't merely by-products, but are inherent
>in these paternalistic traditional cultures.  They are part of how the culture
>functions and that overt sexism is a tool used to sustain the culture and
>suppress those who are not considered equal.

It makes me happy to hear that some people don't just accept the way things
are and use that as the standard for thinking about things.  By that standard,
the women's rights movement in India, the democracy movement in China,
and the anti-apartheid movement in S. Africa, for example, are just
trouble-makers and rabble-rousers.  To use the way things ought to be as the
standard is, admittedly, a more idealistic, more frustrating way of thinking
about things, but it is also much less complacent and much more likely to
actually change some of the evils.

I am amazed when I meet women who say, "I am not really a feminist," meaning
not that they're not worthy of being ranked with Gloria Steinem but that
they're not really for women's rights.  ??  How can you be a women
and in all conscience not be at least passively, at least intellectually,
for feminist ideals?  Unless you've entirely accepted the male-centered
way of thinking.


Manish

                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:16:53 GMT

This thread is a follow-up to suggestions by Satyen, Alok and Mehul and
Raghavan:
> 
> > At some stage we should be thinking about becoming a soc. group, 
> > I don't know when it will be six months since the last (renaming) 
> > vote was held, but it should be coming up pretty soon. 
> 
> The results of the last vote was announced sometime in May (Anybody
> knows the exact date?). 

If I remember the last vote was announced April 12. I can get exact dates
from my files. So an RFD can be posted as early as October 12 (next week !)
I can also post a copy of the newsgroup creation guidelines  as well as
a copy of previous RFD discussion (major articles) here.

Someone with access to now officially defunct SCIA can post such info there.
(Although it seems to be revived at many places, as far as I know it is
still officially defunct, as I have not been notified to the contrary)

> The CFV probably can be sent out as early as 
> December 1, if not sooner. It is probably a good idea to avoid December,
> January to conduct the poll, holiday season, school closing, etc.

CFV can be posted as early as November 12 if the name selection does not
delay it. This will put part of the voting period in December. I agree 
that December should be avoided for voting period.

Perhaps a name selection RFD be posted first by end of October to carry us 
upto November.  Then a regular RFD with the selected name be posted to carry 
upto end of December. This way CFV may be posted in early January to last
for a full 30 days - thus results would include votes until early February.

> 
> For starters, how about the team of Purna, Ron, Satyen, and Mehul
> with any interested volunteers contacting them.

I would really like to see a couple of women being part of the team.
I am not sure if Mehul is a man or woman :-) (Mehul, no offense meant).
I would like to recommend inclusion of at least one of (Amirthi,
Preeti and Trina), provided she agrees ...

Asides from that, Saeed Jafferi would also be an excellent addition ...

Alok

> 
> Regards,
> Raghavan


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Is the term "desi" appropriate?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:52:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.210544.15863@Firewall.Nielsen.Com>, mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota) writes:
> they :-) Since I don't have at least 2 out of these 3 affinities, I am
> not a Bharatiya. However, I am willing to be called a desi, because
> desh is a very generic term (even though it is from the goddamn Hindi)
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^
> with roots in Sanskrit that refers to a country. Could be any country.
> Not Bharat's or Hindi speaking tongue-heads. Suppose, someone calls me
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a desi with derision, I would assume they mean I am a pariah. Not bad,
> considering the wasted patriotism on such meaningless frivolities,
> especially when I haven't done anything to pariah myself or
> ex-communicate myself. Of course, I still hate Hindi, for what it
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> stands for. Enuff reason to pariah myself.
> 
> Murthy

I don't think I appreciate your Hindi bashing, particularly on this newsgroup.
It happens to be mother tongue of some of us including myself.

Alok