From: indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Talaq over phone  ( I received a personal Mail)
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:24:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrcae.1992Nov11.132413.26956
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Originator: indu@iss700


Friends!

  I received the following mail. Since the sender has preferred to send 
  the MAIL directly to me, I shall reveal his identity. But I really did not
  understand this stuff. I do not understand why people are talking about  
  on ANY-THING other than TALAQ OVER PHONE, in this thread. I'm surprised
  that these guys chose to "react" rather than explain.  Again I'm saying,
  please DO NOT START JUNK STUFF like
  
   - I'll not tell you even if I know the answere .
   - I'll trouble you and your relatives in winter break 
   - etc,.

****************************************************************************
   Mail 2.
   Just recieved another mail:
   There was one sensible guy, who posted me personal mail saying there are 
   many regualtions over TALAQ and he is not sure of them either. If I'm 
   interested he will give me address of a South African  Islamic Society.
   Why cannot these guys too follow him or many others who keep off if they 
   DO NOT KNOW or WISH to RESPOND?
****************************************************************************

  As for this guy cahllenging me about my knowledge of Quran etc,.
  I've already said that My knowledge is gained from hearsay and some books.
  As for Mohammed marrying his Son's wife, I shall reproduce the exact words 
  from the book I read:

========BOOK START==========
  BOOK :  Islam Revealed   a Christian Arab's view of Islam
          by Dr.Anis A Shorrosh
             Anis Shorrosh Evangelistic Association
             P.O.Box 577
             Spanis Fort, AL 36527
             Published by Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville
          Chapter 2 The Life of Muhammad     Page:62

    The fifth wife - Zainab, His Adopted son's Ex-wife
 One day Muhammad went to visit the house of his adopted son Zeyd, but Zeyd
 was not there. Muhammad accidentally saw Zeyd's wife, Zainab, unveiled.
 Smitten by her beauty, Muhammad exclaimed,  "Praise belongeth unto god who
 turneth the hearts of Men even as he will". These words were heard by Zainab,
 who, proud of her conquest, told her husband of it. Zeyd went at  once to 
 Muhammad, and offered to divorce his wife for him. At first Muhammad refused,
 for it was a thing unheard of to marry the divorced wife of an Adopted son;
 but Zeyd carried out his proposal. Muhammad at last resolved to have Zainab.
 Sitting by 'Ayisha, he professed to have a revellation from Allah, and said,
 "Who will run and tell Zainab that the lord hath joined her to marry me?"
 Zainab was overjoyed and gave the messenger all the jewels she had on her 
 person. This event  demonstrates that the traditional view that Muhammad's 
 numerous marriages were for political reasons or to care for some widows is 
 not true. (Ibid., 21 22)

 The marriage caused a great Scandal. To save his reputation, Muhammad sought 
 to justify his conduct by affirming that it was done by Allah's command:

   SO WHEN ZEYD HAD PERFORMED THE NECESSARY FORMALITY (of DIVORCE) FROM HER,
   WE GAVE HER UNTO THEE IN MARRIAGE,  SO THAT (HENCEFORTH) THERE MAY BE NO
   SIN FOR BELIEVERS IN RESPECT OF WIVES OF THEIR ADOPTED SONS, WHEN THE LATTER
   HAVE PERFORMED THE NECESSARY FORMALITY (OF RELEASE) FROM THEM. THE 
   COMMANDEMENT OF ALLAH  MUST  BE FULFILLED.

 Afterward, Zainab vaunted herself as the only wife of Muhammad who had been
 given in Marriage by Allah himself. The same Surat, at 33:50, allows 
 Muhammad more than four wives:

  O PROPHET! LO! WE HAVE MADE LAWFUL UNTO THEE THY WIVES UNTO WHOM THOU HAST
  PAID THEIR DOWRIES, AND THOSE WHOM THY RIGHT HAND POSSESSETH OF THOSE
  WHOM ALLAH HATH GIVEN THEE AS SPOILS OF WAR, AND A BELEIVING WOMAN IF SHE 
  GIVE HERSELF UNTO THE PROPHET AND THE PROPHET DESIRE TO ASK HER IN MARRIAGE
  - A PRIVILEGE FOR THEE ONLY, NOT FOR THE (rest of) BELIEVERS

  In verse 59 of same Surat, rules are laid down for the seclusion of women,
  especially in the case of Muhammad's wives. The latter were not to be spoken 
  to unless they were behind a curtain. It  was also said that Allah had
  them from ever marrying after Muhammad's death. They were virtually 
  "captives" in the prophet's houses.

 ========= BOOK END ==========
   
  So, Since I read these I have quoted that way in my posts. I have  always
  said this is what I read. If somebody feels that this is Wrong 
  please let us all know (In fact a bunch of us here have read this book,
  incidentally these books were distributed free of cost to us).
  Also if you want to "talk to" regarding the contents I have already provided
  the author's address. Please cointact him there. 

  IS Anis Shorrosh wrong in his RESEARCH on Islam? 

  So friend, hope I satisfied your question.  -Indu



MAIL 1:
             ************  BEGIN OF Mr xxxx's Personal MAIL ************

In indu@iss700.Colum bia.NCR.COM () writes...
>To: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu
>Subject: Re: TALAQ over Tele-Phone
>
>In article <ZEESHAN.92Nov6195531@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> you write:
>>In article indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
 
>>>   Bandhuwon!
>>      Strange you should start like this.  You're no friend of mine.
>   Hindus consider every Hindu as their relatives.  Very cultural.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Yes! Very cultural!! Indeed!!! I guess then all the news of riotings
   and killings between Harizons and the "higher class" hindus are not
   true. After all they are relatives!!!!!!!!

>   I may not be known to you. So? I consider you or all those on s.c.b. as
   Another thing, I am not a hindu, why are you considering a hindu.


>   bandhus because few centuries back there  were some Hindus who were
>   converted forcibly into Islam whose descendants are muslims in Bangladesh.
>>>     I  am   interested  in knowing  whether  the  ISLAMIC  PRACTICE OF
>>>    TALAQ  (divorce)  is possible over phone?
>>>   All I know about this system is that,
>>>   A MALE CAN DIVORCE HIS WIFE JUST BY SAYING TALAQ-TALAQ-TALAQ
>>>   (uttering TALAQ three times).
>
>>      [lots of obnoxious rubbish deleted]

>  As for me not knowing anything about it, I already confessed in my post
>  that my knowledge source of one of the  "PRACTICES IN ISLAM". So I do
>  not understand WHY you are hell bent upon proving that I do not know.
>
      [another lot of obnoxious rubbish deleted]
 
>  Thanks. ( By the way why did you prefer to give this peice of knowledge,
>  when you already said that you will not give?)
>
>>> My  views expressed above are made on a PERSONAL basis              |
>>> No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
>>      I'm sure no one but BJP would want to be.
>
>  THIS JUST PROVES YOUR obsessive-reactionary attitude. You are bringing some
>  third party too.  I do not know your intentions. DO YOU THINK BJP is that
>  stornger than ISLAM in matters pertaining to Islam? Is soc.culture.bangladesh
>  an IMPROPER PLACE for questions on ISLAM?
>
>  (I was reading this book ISLAM UNVIELED by Anis Sorrosh, where he tackled
>   Deedat very effectively. So I started gaining interest in the basics of
>   this religion. Whether it is logic based or what is it? I have read
>   couple of things like Prophet Muhammad married his SONS wife, though
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Muhammad(sm) 's only son died at the age of 2/3 monthes. Why did you
    lie in here? Huh. Just for fun.

>   QURAN allows widow re-marriage which prophet incidentally supported
>   he dis-allowed re-marriage of his wives,  HIS (in)TOLERANT ATTITUDE TOWARDS
> the invaded people (?!), his supporting the killing of a poetess for speaking
>   truth. It is a good book, on ISLAM. In fact  Anis sorrosh proves that
>   Quran spoke of Christ, and the dis-proves  the claim of Anwar Deedat that
>   PROPHET Muhammad was predited in Bible etc,. At  some point, Anwar Deedat
>   while countering Anis Sorrosh goes to the extent of saying that "his
>   Hindu brothers are more consistent in their Philososphy than his Christian
>   brothers".)
>
> Man! you seem to be worked up. Cool down.
>
>>Zeeshan Hasan
>

Mr. Indu , I think you are trying to disgrace ISLAM and its PROPHET(SM)
by some false allegations against us. You spent enough time to do so
(I know because you said you read some books.)
I am busy with my studies now! But I promise you and your RELATIVES
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^
will have trouble in the semester break.
Goodluck until then.

XXXXX XXXXX
xxxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx.edu
                ************  END OF MAIL ************

-Indu.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  My  views expressed above are made on a PERSONAL basis              |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh