HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mindyb@twg.com (Mindy *. Bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt (not what you think)
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:31:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: gollum.10312
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Palo Alto, CA

This is a test post.
From: liu-edward@CS.YALE.EDU (Edward Liu)
Subject: Re: What's the point?
Organization: /m/edwick/.organization
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:28:05 GMT

In <1992Apr13.040039.1376@udel.edu>, weigand@pecan.udel.edu (Steve Weigand)
writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.223017.6948@uoft02.utoledo.edu> fax0243@uoft02.
>utoledo.edu writes:
>>	Bringing me to my point... What do you all get out of karate? I have
>>three things that I think most people get out of karate no matter what style
>>or school they come from. Those are: 1). Self defense abilities, 2).
>>Self-esteem(at least a little), 3). More or less physical fitness.
>>
>>Sonya Chang
>>fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu
>
>There's one other thing you forgot... A feeling of inner-peace, strength, and
>harmony. Mental fitness, if you will. Perhaps even beyond just "fitness".
>
>Ciao!
>  -Steve Weigand

   I second the point made above.  Mas Oyama was quoted once as saying that "a
karateka should be able to have complete calm and control in all situations --
even if in a burning building and surrounded by flames [as r.m-a has been
recently-Ed :-)]" or something like that.

   Similarly, there's an anecdote which was told by Sensei Stan Schmidt when he
visited our karate club and trained with us.  He was talking about his "ideal"
bar-fight, with the help of our instructor:

	Sensei Stan:  OK, attack me.
	Instructor:   [Punch punch kick punch punch punch kick]
	Sensei Stan:  [Bat bat bat bat bat bat bat -- all with no effort]
		      Sir, is there a problem?
	Instructor:   [Punch punch punch kick kick]
	Sensei Stan:  [Bat bat bat bat bat] Sir, I think you're mad right now.
		      Maybe you should take a rest.
	Instructor:   [Punch punch kick kick kick]
	Sensei Stan:  [Bat bat bat bat bat] Sir, I'm beginning to get angry...

   Absolutely none of my instructor's *FULL FORCE AND POWER* attacks got
anywhere near Sensei Stan, and I think that part of the reason why was that
Sensei Stan was so damn calm throughout the entire demonstration.  That was one
of the greatest training weekends I've ever had.

---
-- 
|  Edward C. Liu              "Not by wrath does one kill,        |
|  liu-edward@cs.yale.edu       but by laughter..."               |
|  P.O. Box 6007 Yale Station    -- F. Nietzsche,                 |
|  New Haven, CT  06520              _Thus Spoke Zarathustra      |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Bruce Lee on Classical Karate
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:01:23 GMT


 Since Marty mentioned Bruce Lee, I'll take this opportunity to give
 my opinion on him and his JKD philosophy (if anyone cares :).

 In 9/71 Black Belt, reprinted in this year's winter Yearbook, he wrote
 a famous article entitled "Liberate Yourself From Classical Karate",
 in which he basically says that regimented drills can only create 
 conditioned responses and inhibits the creativity and ultimate potential
 of the martial artist.  Let me focus on one particular quote :

   "Through instictive feeling, each of us KNOWS [emp. his] our own 
    most efficient and dynamic manner of achieving effective leverage, 
    balance in motion, economical use of energy, etc."

 I think this statement basically says it all.  It's complete, total,
 unmitigated rubbish !!  There are *countless* attributes, characteristics,
 capabilities and even "secrets" of the human organism that take years 
 to even begin to discover.  And for everyone in the universe, except
 maybe for a handful of Bruce Lee's, they must be learned.  

 I think Bruce himself was simply an excellent MA with super-human physical
 attributes. For him, *any* attempt at systemization would be a hinderence!
 He has reached that often-quoted but never-realized stage "where all
 martial arts meet."  Adherence to any one style would necessarily limit 
 access to the others.  For those of us who are not as gifted (it takes no 
 humility whatsoever to include myself in this lot :), a more traditional
 approach is better.


 This discussion has important implications for Aikido, and the attempt
 to teach it as done so by O'Sensei is his later years --

 -- Ted --


==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Effectiveness, swords, etc.
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:05:50 CDT

In article <43333@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

>There is a movie called "Challenge of the Ninja," ...yes, it is only a movie,
>but if you want an explication of the Chinese stylists' prejudice about sword
>fighting, it is a good reference because it cites all the reasons why Japanese
>sword fighting is inferior (in their opinions).  

Would you please post what you remember these to be?

>
>My own opinion is that as a fighting tool Japanese swords are cumbersome, and

 This is not a flame, this is curiosity (okay, I admit it, some of my neck
hairs are bristling just a little). Have you worked with any of the styles
of Japanese swords at all? Have you been *instructed* in the use of a
Japanese style blade?

-Lauren
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Summary: brass handguards
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:30:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.200238.1087@apollo.hp.com>, stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:
> My kenjutsu instructor told me the guards are fairly easy to cut through,
> especially since many are made of brass, bronze or copper.  In fact the
> more ornate ones are often not even solid metal, but more like a carving
> than a guard.  

	Soft-metal handguards are alleged to be useful, at least with knives,
in catching your opponenl's blade - the soft metal "grabs" the edge.  Perhaps
Robert Allen can comment?

-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: Which Style To Take 
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:39:23 GMT

ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:

>tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) says:
>
>>KARATE - has a heavy weight of tradition behind it.  I enjoyed it.

>As another poster said, it's only about 60 years of tradition.  Other
>Japanese styles go back farther.

60 years?  Well, that depends on whether you count the various
Okinawa-te "styles", Shuri-te, Naha-te, Tomari-te, etc.  These have
been around considerably longer.  Of course, that was back when every
teacher effectively had his own "style".  Maybe we're heading back
toward those days :-)?  And of course there are various Japanese
styles that go back farther.  The Okinawans, after all, had to be
defending themselves against SOMETHING :-).  Like crazy Japanese with
swords...really, though, it was my understanding that "te" came from
China ("T'ang hand" = "Kara-te", pre-Funakoshi style) several hundred
years ago.  Shotokan karate has only about 60 years of tradition
in and of itself; is this what you meant to say?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Stretching
From: lampij@brandonu.ca
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:39:56 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada



Hello again,

	I wonder what types of stretching routines people do in their clubs.
	I am one of those terminally stiff people.  I have been training now
for more than eight years (I know, just a kid) and I stretch on a regular
basis.  Some people can just up and drop to their maximum stretch without more
than a 'hello', while I must jug around and slowly loosen up before I can ease
my way down to my maximum.  Were I ever to get in a self-defence situation, I
think it would be difficult for me to drop into a nice stable stance while
striking, and I would certainly not kick above the waist.
	Are their routines that are more effective for stretching than others? 

	I think this would be a good place for some TKD people to practice
explaining their principles of training for flexibility!!

Thanks for the info...

douglas lampi

lampij@brandonu.ca

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:02:38 GMT

Let's try this again, sorry if you see it twice...

In article <ogorman.702929015@unix1.tcd.ie>, ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie
(Lucifuge) writes:
|> One thing which no-one seems to have mentioned is guards. I can't understand
|> the guards on japanese weapons. They seem to offer absolutely minimal
|> protection. European weapons seem (to me) to be vastly superior in this
|> respect. Then again I know nothing...
|> 
|> Ollie...

My kenjutsu instructor told me the guards are fairly easy to cut through,
especially since many are made of brass, bronze or copper.  In fact the
more ornate ones are often not even solid metal, but more like a carving
than a guard.  He said that the guards are really there to keep your hand
from slipping down onto your own blade rather than to keep someone else's
blade off your hands.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: pm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Paolo Vergara Malabuyo)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Musashi question
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:49:10 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

From what I've read, Miyamoto Musashi did have a son by the name of Iori
who he adopted on his travels.  He doesn't have any blood descendants,
and Iori became an officer (I think) in a Fujiwara lord's army.  I don't
know how much of Musashi's art was passed on to Iori, but I do know that
Go Rin No Sho was not written for him; rather, it was written for one of
Musashi's students whose name I cannot remember now.  

About this "Sabutai Musashi" guy, tell him that he's an idiot and a
fraud (a bad one at that) and that he should raise his IQ level a few
notches above his belt rank before he tries to pull anything like this
off.  

Have a nice day!

Paolo
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach)
Subject: Re: 2 questions.  Please read.
Keywords: stretching, sparring
Reply-To: izar@cs.huji.ac.il
Organization: Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 06:26:25 GMT

In article <1299@hydra.bucknell.edu>, cammarta@bucknell.edu (aaron cammarata `93) writes:
|> 
|> 	 A couple of quick questions I'd like some opinions on:
|> 1)
|> 	In the unfortunate event that you're attacked, say on the street somewhere, and you're not stretched out, as you would be before and during training, how do you deal with it?  Obviously, kicks aren't going to be as high,
|> and the danger of a sprain or tear is much higher.  How do you cope?  Any special ideas out there?
|> 2)
|> 	When sparring, what goes through your head?
|> 
|> 	I wanted to leave that last one general, so as not to "guide" your answers at all.  ("What goes through my head?  The sensei's foot!" :-)
|> 


(1) I am not sure that outside a very particular range of situations (like
the guy having already a wound in his head, or something of the sort) I 
would high kick in an actual encounter. Much easier to go for the knees,
isn't it ?

(2) I would like to say I don't think in absolutely nothing, but I have 
not reached this level...yet?. Actually I think in all those little
antecipations and "what ifs", <I think>. Not a very strong statement, at
the most...but well, <eventually> I'd be happy if I could just detach,
if not being able to completely shut off.

Just my $0.02.

--izar
From: upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:11:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.shv4eINNqms
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <8235@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>In article <sgfapINNln4@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
>>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
>>month.
>
>If we made it two months, then you couldn't post any such statements
>about Aikido!?

Fine.

I'm willing to give up my rights to pontificate about Aikido in exchange for
little sense and order around here.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:17:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary:  -=-< humor >-=-
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Keywords: not really...

In article <1992Apr16.155958.11523@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.134417.9063@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>>In article <shv4eINNqms@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>
>>>In article <8235@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>>>In article <sgfapINNln4@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>>>>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
>>>>>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
>>>>>month.
>>	this is got to be a joke, right!?  it is, isn't it???  
>
>I sort of assumed it *was*. However, I think it's a little annoying to see
>statements of the "Judo's just a sport and isn't any good for self-defense",
>"Aikido is just for wimps", or "Tai Chi wouldn't work in a *real* fight" flavor
>from people who haven't had *any* exposure to the arts they're maligning. 
>
>Of course, that's why *my* keyboard has an "F"(lame) key ;-)
>
>Steve

	yeah, but don't 'we' usually make toast of such people?  (who 
says we don't have any fun in martial arts!)
	{touch bin/smiles/#8}  no!  steve please stay away from that
f..whooooosshshhhh
}}}}}}}}}} connection lost:  Operation no connected

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:03:04 CDT

In article <1992Apr6.202737.24494@bnr.ca> naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:

>(P - primary focus of MA)
>(S - secondary focus, ie. taught, but to a lesser extent)
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>1. Reason for studying martial art?
>   b) Self defence:
>      P - aikido, aikijitsu, ju-jitsu, kung-fu
>      S - tae-kwon do, judo, karate
                              ^^^^^^

               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

>
>   c) Sport (ie. tournament competition):
>      P - judo, tae-kwon do, karate, kendo
                              ^^^^^^
               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>   d) Mental training:
>      P - tai chi, iai-do,
>      S - all others

               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>2. Type of art desired?
>
>   a) Soft - redirect opponent's energy using soft, flowing motions,
>             and very little of your own energy, control opponent 
>             through leverage and balance
>      P - aikido, tai chi, aikijitsu??, kung-fu
>
>   b) Hard - stop opponents energy with your own, direct blocks, 
>             kicks and punches, break boards, etc.
>      P - tae-kwon do, karate, kung-fu, kendo
                        ^^^^^^
               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>3. Means of striking, or defeating opponent?
>
>   a) Kicks and punches:
>      P - tae-kwon do, karate, kung-fu
>
>   b) Throws, twists, sweeps, locks:
>      P - aikido, aikijitsu, tai chi, kung-fu, judo, jujitsu
>      S - tae-kwon do, karate
                        ^^^^^^
               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>   c) Weapons:
>      P - kendo, kenjutsu
>      S - kung-fu, tai chi, karate, tae-kwon do
                             ^^^^^^
               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!



-Lauren
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:05:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.110614.765@gacvx2.gac.edu>, karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
> I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
> Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?

	Jeff Cooper
	Rex Applegate
	Bill Jordan


-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: White: Color of Gis, Color of Mourning - ?
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:18:46 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <8080@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>In article <8D31AEK@netmbx.netmbx.de> fischer@netmbx.netmbx.de (Axel Fischer) writes:
>>And what about Monkey-Kung Fu where you hop around on your hands & feets?
>
>MMmmm...piece of cake compare to the Dragon. In XingYi at least...;)
>
>So Steve...what's suwari-waza? Something-technique, I got that much!!

Techniques done from seiza. On your knees, perhaps, but *definitely*
not out of the fight ;-).

Steve
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: re: True Martial Artists
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:01:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1992Apr7.190137.22563
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) says:

>OK so what is the true martial arts driving vehicle?  I shouldn't think
>it would be a single brand or type of car, but rather, the characteristics
>such a vehicle might have.

I use the Chuck Norris Action Corvette myself.  Beats the heck out
of the Bond car.  :)

I usually take it for a spin with Chuck (Dressed in his action gi)
and we go looking for hot female ninja babes (kunochi) roaming the
streets.

Sometimes He insists on Action Grip Gi Joe coming along but I begin
to worry about that since I heard about that close relationship
between Action Grip Joe and Jungle Jim. :)

Marty
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fyodor@cormac.nas.nasa.gov (Chris L. Kuszmaul)
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 18:43:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.162452.25948@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>In article <52766@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>>
>>     4) If you should be so unlucky as to take a shot to the groin
>>during sparring yourself, I highly suggest retiring to the locker
>>room ASAP and removing your cup; I found it to be a great relief.
>>
>	It also helps a lot to jump up and down a few times on your heels.


  This reminds me of one time in rugby (my first martial art :-)), 
a few years back, when our hooker got a groin shot. He was sitting on
the ground, and one of the opposing players used a treatment of 
hugging him from behind, lifting, and shaking.

  Now, our injured player, it just so happens, was gay. As he
was bouncing up and down, he looked up to the opposing player
and said "Can I meet you after the Game?".

  So, I guess that the treatment works!


  CLK


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Women's Self-Defense
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:49:01 GMT

In article <12292@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> braun@wald.ucdavis.edu (Jerome Braun) writes:
>
>I would very much appreciate any replies to the following query,
>including pointing me in the direction of archived information, 
>if the question has been previously beaten to death.  It is fine to 
>e-mail me directly at braun@wald.ucdavis.edu .
>
>
>Jerry Braun
>

I'm sure you'll get many suggestions for you course here. And here's
mine.

I helped teach some aspects of a course at my College in self-defense,
which was mostly attended by women. The one most effective part of the 
course, I think, was free-style sparring. Unless you get in there and
get bopped around a little, there is just no way to be prepared for a
real attack, I think. 

I would get up to spar with one of these women, and at first, she couldn't
hit me at all (even if I gave a huge opening). "I can't hit you!" was what
I kept hearing. But after I bopped her in the face a few times, and kept
saying "come on" (bop!), they got the idea, and the difference was
remarkable.

Now, I don't want to sound like I enjoy beating women, but women, even 
more than men, are conditioned by society to be nice, and most women
have never been in a fight. You have to lead them to the point where
they can unleash the agression. 

Two more quick comments: in most of the schools I've sparred at, women
were treated extra carefully. I think that this is a big disservice
to the women involved. A rapist is not going to treat them really nice.
I'm not saying you should kick the shit out of them, but if they leave an
opening, you should make them feel it. And teach them to hit hard.
When you get hit in the face, you can get hit pretty hard before it
actually causes damage. (But watch out for the nose). What I'm getting
at is that you need to learn to get a little used to the shock of
having your head jerk back by a punch. At the time you think "holy shit -
that was a hard punch!" but later you look in the mirror and there's not
the slightest mark, and no soreness. So what was it that shocked you?
Just the sudden jar to your head. That's what I mean by bopping
someone. In my (fortunately limited) experience with real fights,
it was that more than anyting else that made me freeze up. (This
was pre-MA days).

My other comment is that this sparring can be dangerous (for you, not
so much for the student, assuming you are good at sparring) because,
as most sparrers know, the greatest chance of injury is sparring with
someone who is new, and has no real idea of control. So be careful.
That said, I would start the sparring the first night, and keep it up
long enough for the students to get good enough at it to start to enjoy
it.

	Good Luck
		Ed Hartnett


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Multiple oppnents
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 04:14:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr16.160805.1002@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
>In article <Qdv_weG00awEEDm0hc@andrew.cmu.edu>  writes:
>
>> Hey, this could be the answer. Carry mace.
>
>Make sure it's mace concentrate, and not that cheap over-the-counter
>stuff.  Regular mace is pretty worthelss stuff, and it wouldn't make
>me cry at a funeral.

Actually, I prefer my mace with about a 15 pound ball with spikes and
about a two foot chain.  Harder to conceal, though...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts