From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: <None>
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:20:13 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Oct13.013543.13749@news.cs.indiana.edu>, "Marc VanHeyningen" <mvanheyn@spinner.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
> Thus said bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman):
>>Except that it doesn't do what you expect. So to use this feature properly,
>>you have to type like a madman, then hit <tab> then what you see what you
>>got. In my mind, this is the user interface equivalent of a slot machine.
>>Sometimes it pays off, often not.
> 
> It does exactly what I expect.  

Then you must not be human, because you are so infallable.

> If you expected something different,
> then, well, I'm sorry.  If you mean "it is not possible to fully predict
> its behavior in advance unless you have a fully accurate mental model of
> the system", that applies to a pop-up list too.  

No it doesn't. Because when you look at the list (which is sorted, BTW)
you quickly recognize if it doesn't match your mental model. With a CLI,
you never have that benefit until its too late.

>>And that's exactly the problem. You might as well type out the whole
>>thing rather than waiting. This would be a simpler process than typing
>>some of the name, hitting tab, waiting for the response if that was enough,
>>typing more, hitting tab, etc, etc. You're better off just typing the
>>whole name.
> 
> Well, the "waiting for response" thing is silly, since it's typically
> instantaneous.  

The computer response might be measured in microseconds (perhaps a few
dozen milliseconds, but the human recognition of that response takes a lot
longer, particularly if you don't know exactly what to expect. Indeed, if
you get an unexpected response, then you sit dumbfounded for a moment trying
to get a handle on the situation.

Of course, all this mental activity distorts your perception of time. It doesn't
seem to take long, but it eats up enormous amounts of real time.

> It's much faster than the delay a Mac gives you after you pull down the 
> cute menu and select "Open" and it takes a while to draw a nice window 
> and put some spiffy buttons and an adorable scrolling window with the files 
> in it.

(Hang on to that cute, nice, spiffy, adorable thought)

Not at all. While you do have to wait for the list, once you get it, there's
no confusion. You know exactly where you are, what files are available,
and if you are specifying a file to read or write. The lack of ambiguity 
more than makes up for the time needed to display the list.

You seem to be measuring the wrong things. It appears that any delay in
the computers response is unacceptable, regardless of how that response
may subsequently delay the HUMAN response.

Delays in using a computer are the sum of the computer and the human delays.
You are ignoring the human delays while focusing on the computer ones. You 
can fix computer delays by buying a faster computer. Fixing the human delays
is much more costly. (You can't buy faster humans)

>>I hate the term GUI. But yes, graphic user interfaces make things simple for
>>all.
> 
> Do you really mean GUIs make things simple for all?  So, X is simple for
> all? :-) 

Smiley noted.

Perhaps I should condition that as "good graphic user interfaces make things
simple for all."

> Anyway, I was just trying to mention that some untrue things about
> completion were being said, and some opinions about it (e.g. it's
> worthless in case X) being presented as fact.  There are lots of reasons
> why Macs are lousy, but lack of filename completion a la tcsh is not one of
> them.

While I agree that lack of filename completion a la tcsh is not a Mac
fault, I cann't agree with the prior assertion.

Exactly whay do you think Macs are, as you say "lousy."

And don't you dare say, "because there's no command line interface." Grrr.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy