From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Real BSA Issues (was: another greeting)
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:36:56 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

Lawrence C. Foard writes:
>Brian Dunphy writes:
>>Dave Kaffine writes:

>>>Just bacause it cannot be taught doesn't mean that it's not affected by
>>>environment.  Can you be taught intelligence?  Can you be taught to be tall?

>>You are saying that the envirnoment in some way infulence sexuality, correct.
>>If this is the case, that is the reason for BSA not providing a homosexual
>>role model for people growing up.  MOST parents do not want their children 
>>to "learn" to be homosexual.  If the envirnoment can affect someone
>>sexuality, then MOST parents would not an envirnoment which could 
>>"teach" their children to be homosexual.  

>What about an environment where they can live with themselves if they are
>homosexual?

I voted for this newsgroup because I felt netnews needed a forum where
we could discuss Scouting around the world, get ideas and suggestions
from each other, and discuss questions or issues we have with the BSA
program.  Instead this group is being hijacked by people with their
own private agendas that contradicts the standards set by BSA.

As a Troop Committee Member and Eagle Advisor, I see nothing wrong with
the goals of BSA.  I feel that proper religious values and proper sexual
values and behavior are standards that should be taught and enforced.
Maybe a lot of the social problems we have today are due to people, as
we've seen on this group, fighting or belittling these values instead
of realizing the correctness of these values.  If people wouldn't be
so concerned about "finding themselves" and disputing everything that
civilization took years to develop, maybe we'd have a lot better society
now.

As far as sexual values, for the purpose of choosing leaders for my son's
Troop, I don't give a damn whether sexual preference is inherited, is
one own's personal choice, or a combination of the two.   As a parent
it is my duty to my children and as a Troop Committee Member, it's my
responsibility to other people's children to provide adult leadership
that can be looked up to as role models.  Someone whose sexual practices
defy all standards of morality is in no way qualified to be in such a
position of influence or leadership over my or someone else's son.  It
doesn't mean that a crusade against such practices need to be launched,
but it does mean that I do not want my son, or the son of anyone else
to whom I have a responsibility, to be the target of some great, new,
wonderful, social experiment.

As far as the issue of United Way support, I could complain that the
local YMCA is a receipient.  As far as other civic support, among the
groups, besides our Troop, that work at the local recycling center for
a share of the profits, is the youth group of a local church.  Should I
complain because I'm indirectly supporting a Christian church or 
Christian ideals?  The bottom line is that both organizations provide
social services, as does BSA.

There are problems with BSA, but the moral standards that it tries
to uphold aren't among them.  The main problem I see is when Troop
leaders don't enforce the Scout Oath and Scout Law.  Clearly if a boy
is being "picked-on", the ones hazing the boy are in violation of
the Oath and Law, and appropriate action should be taken.  If a cheap
shot is delivered in a game or in an isolated situation, it's not a
matter of telling the boy who's crying in pain that he should grow
up; leaders should go after the boy delivering the cheap shot (and
let's face it, by the second time a boy "accidentally" injures another,
the facade is off).  If older boys  are in charge of younger boys,
then the adult leaders must make sure that it's leadership by respect
and not leadership by "I'm bigger than you".   These are the areas
where I feel BSA leaves a lot to be desired.

Let's separate the signal from the noise in this group, and if we're
going to discuss BSA policies and issues, let's discuss real one,
as opposed to agendas of groups whose goals are to oppose societal
norms instead of working within them.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com