Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 15:38:20 MST
From: Shooting Club at ASU <GUNDEVIL@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject:     Problems !

      Forwarded from "FIREARMS" @ utarlvm1

Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:47:55 CDT
From:         Thomas Faller <tomfal@TR6.WES.ARMY.MIL>

>Tom:  Do you feel that this conspiracy to overthrow the United States
>        Constitutional government is being controlled by foreign nationals
>        or native Americans ?

>        Do you feel that the conspirators plan to use violence to achieve
>        this change in government ?

My feeling is that this is not so much an overt conspiracy as a shared
mindset and group of values that happen to regard the Constitution as an
obstacle to their vision of a strong American government (with themselves at
the helm, of course). I don't see foreign nationals doing the yelling for
handgun control or banning "assault rifles", although they may have their own
agendas.

The plans I perceive involve a strong avoidance of violence. These people
don't want _anyone_ to have guns, except perhaps the army, in theory. Look
at the way the National Guard gets sent out without ammo, or the Army goes
to the front with unloaded weapons. The threat of unopposed authority is
enough, they assume. Keeping people from shooting back is a necessary part
of that idea. Look to an army like the Thirties - reduced manpower, little
training, weapons, but no practice.
The only violence necessary is for showcase; have a riot or two as an excuse
to clamp down on firearm possession, provoke a pro-gun demonstration into
armed resistance to show that the State is threatened, this kind of stuff
that the networks love to cover. Isolated violence is all that's needed. They
know that if they started house-to-house searches for guns and immediate
firing squads they'd have Washington burnt to the ground within a week.

It's a lot easier to pass laws making guns illegal than to personally
convince each gun owner that firearms ownership is wrong and dangerous and
that firearms should be turned in and destroyed. It's a lot easier to make
such laws than to personally enforce them. Having unenforceable laws makes it
easier to argue that harsher laws should be passed because the first ones
didn't work.
It doesn't take much of a "conspiracy" to get where we are now. That's why
the laws have to be fought before they are passed and the representatives
stopped before they are elected.

Tom Faller

=========================================================================

 1. "shared mindset", "in theory", "they assume",
 2. "have a riot or two",
 3. "They'd have Washington burnt to the ground within a week"

 What did Hitler call them ?  "The useful idiots" ?

 Do you feel that someone else might be tough enough to replace "with
 themselves at the helm" ?

 "With themselves at the helm" seems to be asking for trouble.

 We understand your delayed chaos prediction from the earlier Democrat
 Vs Republican presidency posting.

 Thank you both James Smith and Tom Faller for the interesting responses
 to the questions.

 *Non-foreign groups  planning to place themselves at the helm of a
 non-Constitutional American government will use at least some violence
 to overthrow our present system.  This group embraces anti-Constitutional
 (and therefore anti-American) ideals, which to a reasonable man would
 appear to be illogical dreams contradicted by man's history and documented
 social experience.  Whether malintentional or not, those who support
 these revolutionary changes bear watching.*

 How can a reasonable person find out who these individuals are ?
 The media transmits occasional warnings about these groups; ALP, PETA,
 and Green Peace (sp?) terrorits, HCI, the "Coalition-Brady" supporting
 criminals and local dictatorships, etc. We can also read how our poli-
 ticians voted on legislation supported by these groups.  How does
 one learn about corporate presidents or private individuals who support
 the overthrow of our Constitutional freedoms by donating money to these
 organizations ?

 Are there other dangers to the American way of life that demand atten-
 tion or warning ?

   This concludes our address on the "FIREARM" bulletin board of the
   "problems !" topic.
   We are shifting transmissions to the "talk.politics.guns" bbs via
   reposting.

   Should you be interested in firearm marksmanship and safety, and if
   you'd like to start a shooting club, drop a line to: