HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec16.172105.25402@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:01:21 GMT

Though the USCF Categorization Guidelines that I posted yesterday were
sent to me as the "final word," it was clear that they were incomplete
and inadequate in a number of ways.  I subsequently succeeded in
convincing the authors to modify it and will post the modified version
as soon as I get time.

BTW, as several people have correctly guessed, the mystery numbers in
the Qualifying Races tables were minimum race durations (in minutes),
for use in criteriums scheduled to run for a certain time.  However,
the modified version will omit those numbers because the actual
distance covered by the field in a timed criterium can be determined
and used to decide whether it was a qualifying race.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: fleurant@hri.com (P.Fleurant)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines (cat.2 -> 1)
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:30:43 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <lj25noINNhig@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
> In article <DAVIS.92Dec17104512@adenosine.lugg.utah.edu> davis@lugg.utah.edu (Darrell R. Davis) writes:
> >
> >In contrast to this years race, last years nationals retained ....
>
> One problem with qualifiers is that depending on the format, it may
> be a one-shot-deal.  What if you are caught behind a crash in the
> qualifier?  What if you flat and the service vehicle is out to lunch?
> 
Agree!
A member of our club qualified for the national road race in Albany 
in 1989 (or was it 1990?) by placing in top 15 in the district road
race. Now that race at a distance of 100+mi was one of the toughest in 
New England. 

He went to Albany and didn't place high enough in the qualifier which
was, according to him, a crit-like course in downtown Albany with
a 25mi distance,..as I recall. He wasn't a crit specialist and he felt 
he would have done much better in the road race. 

__________
P.Fleurant
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey as Criminal Influence?!
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:10:41 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: talon.meaddata.com

Sorry to include all that follows, but it's too complicated to 
summarize:


In article <MJOHNSTO.92Dec15114448@jenny.shearson.com>, mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:
|> In article <9212150046.AA07451@pepvax.pepperdine.edu> kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu writes:
|>    If this harvey guy or gal was so cool, we would see some super-human
|>    funnies, or parody. Instead we get un-cool behavior: personal abuse, a foul
|>    mouth, bragging, & taunts. This isn't just the occasional slip that we all
|>    have seen or an outburst we've been involved in on the net. This wretch has
|>    these behaviors as his reason for existence. 
|> 
|> Oh my God! It's The End Of The Net, As We Now Know It! Someone, quick, call
|> Brad Templeton!
|> 
|>    This trash comes from someone who is scared to use his or her real name.
|>    One does not have to be clever at all to beat the SMTP system the way
|>    pseudo-harvey does. No coding involved. However, it takes the mentality of
|>    a computer-virus writer to do what he/she does with that tiny knowledge. 
|> 
|> This is quite a newsworthy pronouncement. Particularly since one would
|> forge via *NNTP* (or the appropriate news posting mechanism) rather than
|> via SMTP, which is for processing mail.
|> 
|>    Cheer up, pseudo-dave! And get a life. Go out and talk face to face 'til
|>    you find some humans who like you, even if you're not LeMond.
|> 
|> One more thing I should mention. Many moons ago, petty users such as
|> yourself actually got off their high-horse and did something about this
|> perceived problem aside from whining about it. The result is known
|> as the Kill File. It's a wonderful thing, actually, and it keeps
|> thenthitive people like you from theeing things that might offend.
|> 
|> If this reference isn't enough, perhaps Jobst might be able to offer
|> some technical assistance on its usage. A quick mention of 'Mike Johnston'
|> and 'kill file' ought to provoke a stimulating response. 8-)
|> 
|> And please try to lighten up, it's a long way until finals at
|> pepperdine.edu. If you don't relax a bit you'll never make it.
|> A double century might take the edge off.
|> 
|> MJ
|> 


So, having read that, it sounds like you've been "out Harvey'd", Mike...

It looks to me like Mr. Pepperdine is pulling some chains with the 
same virtuosity as our ol' buddy Dave H.

This gets more entertaining every day! 


-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
From: mneff@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Rudy Dhaenens.
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:12:19 GMT
Reply-To: mneff@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Neff)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.racing, fleurant@hri.com (P.Fleurant) writes:
>
>I also think of Dag-Otto Lauritzen (then 7-eleven) riding into the
>same Dirk De Wolf and dropping his chain!
>
>-----------
>P.Fleurant

I'd say it was more like De Wolf made a bonehead move by slowing drastically
as he turned around on the steep slope to presumably look for Dhaenens
or another teammate.  Dag-Otto had nowhere to go.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Tales of the "He-Man"
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:26:15 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   9 Dec 92 01:11:40 GMT
>FROM:   Jobst Brandt <jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>
[....]
>I'm glad to have had a part in this
>escapade.  It might just be that my words got under his skin a bit.
>
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

And this year's Academy Award for self-congratulation goes to -- that's 
right --for the fifth year in a row....


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: thornto@next2god.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Mike Thornton)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:30:17 GMT


>  I don't know offhand what Dristan contains 

NO kidding you don't know what it contains but caffine (a good sized dose)
and phenylephrine are two ingredients (one is a limited substance the
other banned).


> I certainly would not take the advice of someone who obviously doesn't
> know what he is talking about.


I'm not advising anyone, just responding to a posting which asked a 
question. As you may recall I said these were my observations and that's 
all.

Michael M. Thornton

Heart Valve Lab : Robarts Research Inst
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario, Canada
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: garrick@owlnet.rice.edu (Garrick F. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:47:36 GMT

In the apparently controversial article 
<92349.094941K3018E9@ALIJKU11.BITNET>, Steve writes:
|> - What do you know about doping?
|> - What do the pros take?
|> - Do you take anything?

A former teammate of mine (he graduated 3 years ago and
is racing in Bordeaux, to the best of my knowledge) was
notorious for downing a can of Jolt Cola (you know...
"All of the sugar, twice the caffeine") before a crit.
The ensuing caffeine rush, he said, made him hyper enough
to get through the opening laps of a Pro-I-II criterium.

Some bronchodilators used by asthmatics (like me!) are,
I've heard, derivatives of caffeine.  (I use albuterol
before I exercise...Is this drug in that category?) Maybe 
so, but I'm more concerned with being able to breathe 
than whether I'm "hyper".

From what I can tell, if you truly believe something will
help your performance, unless physiological side effects
prove otherwise, the psychological "boost" will help.

As far as I know, I've never raced against anybody who 
used anything more than caffeine or vitamin pills for 
"doping".  If that's so, then at least my weakness is 
honest, I guess...
--
----------------------------------) --------------)
Garrick Mitchell		 / /  __ __ __   /
President, Rice U. Cycling Team	/ /  /_/ /  /   /
garrick@owlnet.rice.edu	       / /  / \ (__/   /
------------------------------/ /  ___ ____   /
                               /  /     /    /
                              /  (___  /    /
                             (_____________/
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:49:27 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
: Using caffeine at such a level that it shows up in the boby's blood system
: in abnormally high amounts(as determined by the UCI) is indeed illegal,
: so, in that light she was taking a banned substance.  This is indeed
: susbstance abuse.

But is it not "substance abuse" to ingest caffeine to just _below_ the
"legal" limit in order to improve one's performance?  While I don't have
a whole lot of sympathy for someone who takes too much caffeine and gets
caught, I do find it distressing that the "legal" limit is high enough
that one's athletic performance can certainly be affected by such a
dosage.  This provides an incentive to use the drug, and rewards those
riders/teams who have the resources to determine the maximal allowable
dosage for the individual rider(s).

: >I really don't know.  So if my body assimilates it and I pass the test 
: >than I am not cheating. However, if I am the one-in-a-hundred that gets 
: >busted then I am considered to be a drug abuser.  It's that arbitrariness 
: >that makes it unfair.
: 
: This is not arbitrary at all.  The rules state the acceptable levels.
: If you can't play by the rules, don`t play.

Yeah, if you can't afford to arrange a series of urine tests to determine
your maximum allowable caffeine dosage, then don't bother to race with
the big boys.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:09:28 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <3450005@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>In any event, the body don't use nearly the amount of water in cold
>weather and that is because your lungs and extremities are cooled.
>The lungs in particular are good heat dissipaters because they don't
>constrict blood flow when exposed to cold air (as other extremities
>do).

I guess you never showed up for you chemistry class, Jobst.  I guess
the saturation point of water in air is constant over all temepratures.
You forgot to include losing water due to breathing, not just sweating.
Physiology must not be your stron suit.

>  Just as a casual data point, we went on a ride over the coast
>range and back for a 75 mile ride and ~5000 feet of climbing on
>Sunday and surprise, my friends drank about a half a bottle and I
>didn't drink anything all day even though I ate a candy bar at half
>distance.  I was not all dried up but it was crisp out at 30-40 deg
>depending on where in the forest or hill we were.  When it gets down
>to a half bottle it's about like no bottle and I don't believe a
>half pint can make the difference when bicycling at these distances.

A casual data point from someone who beats up on people for rounding
errors.  Like anyone else on the net you are intitled to your opinions,
most of us try to back them up with actual facts.

I guess when you start digging a hole, it is best to continue till
you get to China!

Bruce
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:14:32 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <-kbrdh-@lynx.unm.edu> sery@crunch.unm.edu (sery) writes:
>Bruce Hildenbrand writess:
>
>Obviously she was taking it to enhance her performance.  However, it wasn't a 
>case of abuse since two Uptimes and two coffees is NOT very much caffeine
>and it is not a banned substance in any case.

Using caffeine at such a level that it shows up in the boby's blood system
in abnormally high amounts(as determined by the UCI) is indeed illegal,
so, in that light she was taking a banned substance.  This is indeed
susbstance abuse.

The fact that the caffeine apparently stayed in her body longer than other
people does not, in my eyes, make the situation unfair.  If Ms. Parks is
going to use a susbstance that is considered illegal in abnormally high
quantities in the blood to enhance her performance, then SHE should do
her homework and figure out what are the doses she can take and still
remain below the legal limit.  Plain and simple.

>I drink quadruple espressos before tt's to enhance my performance.  I assume
>that since I drink lots of coffee everyday and am fairly heavy I'm okay but
>I really don't know.  So if my body assimilates it and I pass the test 
>than I am not cheating. However, if I am the one-in-a-hundred that gets 
>busted then I am considered to be a drug abuser.  It's that arbitrariness 
>that makes it unfair.

This is not arbitrary at all.  The rules state the acceptable levels.
If you can't play by the rules, don`t play.

>If she had just drunk coffee would you feel differently?  The implication that
>I read into what you wrote is that you would.

I would not feel any differently no matter how the caffeine was injested,
then again I loathe coffee.

Bruce

ps - I love all these people taking caffeine before TT's.  The major
physiological benefit of caffeine is to help the body speed up it's
fatty acid metabolism mechanism, something which is only of benefit after
1-2 hours of racing.  This would hardly seem appropriate for a
55 minute or so effort.  Any anectdotal responses on how much faster
caffeine makes you go in events >1 hour can be sent to /dev/null.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF Upgrade Policy for '93
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec7.074702.4068@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec9.021305.11167@netcom.com> <1992Dec9.152858.19332@ncs.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:30:41 GMT

Dick Anderson writes:
   It seems to me that part of the problem is that the upgrade
   policy changes every year or two.  IMHO it may be wise to
   pick a policy and stick to it for a few years.

I wonder which planet Dick has been on -- the rider upgrading scheme
used by USCF has been essentially unchanged for the last 12 years.  A
twiddle introduced in 1989 was the substitution of a point system for
the old "top three in three races or top six in six races" rule.  Also,
women were given separate categorizations for the first time this
year, but neither of these modifications significantly affect the
upgrading procedure.

   Few of the riders I know, understand the upgrade policy.

If you don't understand it after 12 years of study, you should not be
bothered much by a change next year.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: alant@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Alan Tragarz (JD))
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:54:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR Corp., E&M San Diego

In article <1992Dec16.094553.18147@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>Qualifying Races
>       Road Races      Criteriums         Field Size
>Men    50 mi./80 km.   20 mi./32 km./45   min. 60
>Women  40 mi./64 km.   15 mi./24 km./30   min. 20
                                      ^^

Could these numbers signify the number of minutes which a criterium
must meet or exceed to qualify as a race?

In our district there were several 'timed crits' where laps weren't
counted until a certain time had passed.  After the 
minimum time had elapsed, the Judge would hold up a '5
laps to go' sign and all hell broke loose.
           
Alan Tragarz                            
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: 1992 World MTB Championships on TV
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:15:37 GMT


The 1992 World MTB championships is going to be aired on TV
this Thursday evening on the Canadian sports channel TSN.  For
those of us who get TSN, it will be on:

                 Thursday, December 17
                 8:00 pm EST

Cheers....Stuart
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:18:48 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: talon.meaddata.com

In article <1992Dec15.184421.7280@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, mitch@noxious.bellcore.com (Michael Ferro) writes:
|> 
|> Jobst Brandt writes:
|> 
|> > Just as a casual data point, we went on a ride over the coast
|> >range and back for a 75 mile ride and ~5000 feet of climbing on
|> >Sunday and surprise, my friends drank about a half a bottle and I
|> >didn't drink anything all day even though I ate a candy bar at half
|> >distance. 
|> 
|> 
|> This reminds me of those people who post about how they've ridden
|> X number of miles on anodized rims without any cracks.  Their
|> arguments are of course not very valid, since they are only one
|> data point, while people like Jobst have seen hundreds of cracked
|> anodized rims and virtually no cracked non-adonized rims.
|> 
|> Jobst has used his own experiences with water intake to come to 
|> the conclusion that those who drink water are only trying
|> to "impress cars."  But his is only one data point; we've seen
|> countless examples of people who *need* to drink more water 
|> than Jobst. Ken Lehner, who is probably at the opposite extreme
|> of Jobst when it comes to this subject, has supplied us with
|> data about his water loss during riding (1oz/minute? or some
|> other sick figure).  Having ridden behind Ken and experiencing
|> a constant feeling that it was beginning to rain, which turned out
|> to be Ken's sweat being swept away by the wind, I can believe
|> his figures.  I also believe Jobst's.  The point is that each
|> one is simply an extreme data point.  The rest of us probably
|> fall somewhere in the middle.
|> 
|> The question is why Jobst (rightfully) argues that people should
|> not extrapolate their data from one un-cracked anodized rim to 
|> come to conclusions about all anodized rims, yet insists on 
|> extrapolating from his own water intake to come to the conclusion
|> that bicyclists with water bottles are simply posers trying to 
|> impress the cars.
|> 
|> Ride bike! And drink if you need to!
|> 
|> Mitch Ferro
|> 


Well said, Mitch!

But why is any of this even necessary?  Newsgroups appear to be the
CB radio of the '90's...  You can't reach me (naa naa), so I can say
anything I want.  How boring.

*sigh*  
 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
From: mrpaolo@wpi.WPI.EDU (Paul M. Szymkiewicz)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: riding and weight training
Date: 12 Dec 1992 14:44:35 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Dec11.061549.20321@news2.cis.umn.edu> frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams) writes:
>
>I'm certainly no weight training expert, but the two day delay in your
>problem suggests that a certain amount of muscle stiffness may follow
>your workouts.  If so, I'd suggest you try an anti-inflammatory drug like
>Advil after lifting - maybe two doses of 600 mg - and then see if the
>climbing goes any better.  If so, you have your answer.  Too much weight
>will pump you up by inflammation, not muscle development.

Well, if you know that you are not an expert I would stay away from
advices advocating Advil and such for regular training.  The results might
be just the opposite making the no pain no gain theory look a bit weird.

Having considerable problems when doing weight training is an alarm that
the methods are wrong. Probably weights are too heavy and something is
wrong on the nutrition side. Try stabilize your minerals and vitamins intake
but do not overload.  Drink in the gym at least as much as you would
when on the road -- one bottle every 45 min. is a minimum. Try very light
solutions, if any, water with just a taste of something works best.

Again, 600mg Advil is something for a sick person, and you will be glad
you solved the problem with the help of your body and not chemistry.
-- 
Paul (electronically known as mrpaolo@wpi.wpi.edu)
 _o          Warning: You may want to consult Surgeon General of your 
O/O          state before reading the text included in this message.
-----        Flammable contents. Do not expose to open fire.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:57:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.094553.18147@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>Upgrading from 3 to 2
>
>  by Results:
>Need 30 points to upgrade.  Points in Qualifying Road Races and Criteriums
>(in events that include Category 3 class) scored:
>			1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th
>Road Races - Stage Race  10   8   6   5   4   3   2   1
>Road Races		 10   7   5   3   2   1
>Criteriums		  7   5   4   3   2   1
>    Note: Stage Race GC's do not count towards upgrading
>
>Qualifying Races
>	Road Races	Criteriums	   Field Size
>Men	50 mi./80 km.	20 mi./32 km./45   min. 60
>Women	40 mi./64 km.	15 mi./24 km./30   min. 20

Does anyone have a clue what the motivation is behind these rules?
Looking at the 2->1 upgrade system, one can guess that the idea is to
promote performance in stage racing.  However, the 3->2 rules promote
performance in individual stages only, not in GC.  So I guess the
message here is to enter a stage race, save yourself for a particular
stage, then go for it (and drop out the next day...).  Given that,
why the heck should they count more than one-day races?

>Riders who fail to score points in a 24 month period may elect to be
>downgraded one category (2 to 3  or 3 to 4).
>
>Riders who fail to score points in a 24 month period will automatically
>be assigned one category lowere than last classified.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As my C++ compiler would say, "warning, statement not reached!"

John_Ampe@att.com