HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:21:23 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Sep30.033926.272@netcom.com> dmcnamar@netcom.com (Dennis McManara) writes:

>   Meanwhile we USA'ans must bear with music like Ice-T, and silly
>TV sitcoms that insult one's intelligence.
>

How can you say that - from the nation that produced James Brown and 
"Roseanne" !!!

M
--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Keywords: haggis
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:50:47 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Oct5.044335.24818@netcom.com> eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart) writes:
>Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell wrote:
>
>>Where/how can I get hold of some haggis for this year's Burns Night,
>>since the Scottish friend who got his mum to send him some (marked
>>"Confectionary") for the past 2 yrs. is now in Japan--? I doubt VERY
>>much if American butchers would supply the traditional ingredients,
>>which is also why it's so hard to obtain here--I can't ask for it at our
>>local Giant Eagle Supermarket.
>
>I heard a story recently (perhaps apocryphal) that a group of Scots and other
>Burns aficionadoes tried to get some haggis sent over for their Rabbie
>Burns Night celebration, but the U.S. Department of Agriculture and U.S.
>Customs refused to admit the haggis into the country, on grounds that it
>was "unfit for human consumption" by U.S.D.A. standards.


McSweens, Bruntsfield Place, Edinburgh do mail order. I don't know if
they send abroad, but if anyone does - they will.

I assume the ones they send are vacuum-packed.

M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: tcamp@acpub.duke.edu (Ted A. Campbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Nationalisms/Patriotisms/Flags in Gardens etc.
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:30:32 GMT

Well I have an intuition as to why patriotisms of a certain sort are
suspicious and nationalisms (of a certain sort) are not. What I think
is suspicious these days is patriotism or nationalism where the patria
is a modern political state such as the US, (former) USSR, probably
UK etc. By "modern" I mean that these states thrive on the "mixing pot"
metaphor of developing a single united culture. This, one can argue,
was the essence of modernity, expressed in the so-called "International
Style" in architecture and in countles other moves for unified global
culture. The way the world has gone since the 1970s seems to repudiate
this kind of patria, and the stress now seems to be on ethnically- or
religiously- or specifically culturally-defined loyalties. It's not
surprising to me that Welsh and Scottish nationalism have thrived in
this period and that Celtic languages have been revived to some extent
in this period. 

The newer (more narrowly-defined) "postmodern" loyalties do have their
own problems. One can speak of the "Lebanonization" of the world. Various
groups in the former modern political state of Yugoslavia have formed
postmodern ethnic/religious/cultural republics now. I'm puzzled as to
whether this is a good thing, although one can blame the violence not
on the move to smaller republics but on the arrogance of one of them
(namely Serbia). 

Does this make sense? Subscriptions to Texas Monthly have increased
notably since the 1970s, so watch out US modernists. 

At any rate, the postmodern move to the culturally (and linguistically)
particular is what I suspect attracts women and men to a soc.culture.celtic
newsgroup -- even some folks in the US.

Ted Campbell
Duke University
tcamp@acpub.duke.edu
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: iona
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:45:35 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: NOT St. Andrews University

If The Bishop's House is the name of a residence rather than part
of the Iona Christian Complex then strangley enough the following
address would work (Iona is VERY small and has very few houses..)

	The Bishops House
	Iona
	Off Mull
	Scotland

Honest! I have sent postcards/letters/advanced publicity to manses
and community centres on small islands off the mainland in my time
with less details and sometimes only the first name of the contact
for the tour and they allways got there!

******************************************************************
  Neither an American Woman Piper or Living in the Highlands
******************************************************************
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:42:46 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> Surely I could care less. Go to another board? Because you don't like what I
>have to say? My my - for such a large group of enlightened souls who have
>risen above the physical world of the rest of us, you folks sure don't care 
>hearing opposing views do you? Hypocrites...

He certainly manages to set us up so he can fire off this diatribe
with monotonous regularity.

It has to be the fourth or fifth time I've seen similar comments from him
in this and other groups over the years, and it's just as bogus this time
as it always is.

He posts an intentionally annoying article, maliciously provocative, gives
it a Subject that ensures he gets everyone's attention and makes them rise
to the bait, manipulates the discussion, and then produces this
sanctimonious crap when people tell him to piss off.

What a scam!  And he has the nerve to call _us_ hypocrits!

Let's try it again, eh?  Everybody, all together now, one, two, three:

"Piss off Gary."
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: downey@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Scots Gaels
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:28:36 GMT
Organization: NIST



What are White Settlers regarding Scotland?  From the article posted
about Scots Gaels and American Indians, I have a general idea but
would like further clarification.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is there an influx of "rich" white
settlers into the Highlands as reported by the article?  Where,
specifically are "they" coming from?  What is the effect on Gaelic
culture?  Is the Assynter's group legitimate? radical? necessary?
Have they had any success?  I don't know anything about the group,
other than a brief description I heard somewhere else.  I believe
the group was described as a community group trying to preserve
land and industry for the local people.  Is this correct?

Well, here is a Scottish topic.  Craig, has this been discussed on
your Scottish group?  Let the discussions begin!  :-)

Laura
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:11:36 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <23374@optima.cs.arizona.edu>,
gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
|> .... the things that made
|> one area unique from another did not suddenly disappear but rather with
|> increased access individuals were able to choose which techniques
|> and ideas they liked and which they did not ...
|> Clearly this "homogenization" did more to empower the
|> individual in his search for a unique and to him/her superior form of
|> music than would have been done had this person been limited to only
|> the ideas that surrounded him/her.

I'm not convinced. I accept that this effect does occur, and it's a good
thing, but there are counterbalancing problems.

(1) The performer faces the pressure to please a much wider audience
which lacks the background to appreciate what it is being offered. 
There is an incentive to tone down, sweeten, make blander, the
techniques which give character to a local music.

(2) If somebody discovers that the homogenised audience likes some sound
or style, then a flood of music appears which makes some unskilled and
talentless approximation to it.  The audience, by and large, can't tell
the difference (whereas the local audience for the original music would
have recognised good from bad).  By the usual mechanisms of the market,
bad music drives out good.

I suppose, by the measure of the market, you can say that the
homogenised music is better.  I think, though, that something of value
does get lost.  I wonder whether the musicians would feel that way.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: mstenhou@crc.ac.uk (Mike Stenhouse x3293)
Subject: Re: This is *not* soc.culture.american
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:57:21 GMT

In article <BvC0DC.Jn9@agora.rain.com> trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
>
>
>How about those who want to ramble/rant on about this subject either take it
>to email, or to whatever newsgroup it belongs in? As you say in England, 
>Matthew, Give It A Rest.
>
>Suze
>

Agreed - I don't believe anything new is now being said.


How about that vote on having a new newsgroup "soc.culture.scotland"?


Mike
From: mbailie@oregon.uoregon.edu (Mashoed Bailie)
Subject: *Scottish Film Industry*  is there such a thing?????!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oregon
Date:  1 Oct 1992 18:34 PDT  

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:6279 soc.culture.usa:7541
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
From: Henry Corcoran <CORCORAN@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 28 Sep 1992 10:17:43 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

In article <1992Sep28.101050.11573@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew
Huntbach) says:
>
>From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
>>I sense that stock anti-americanism and attendant contempt for
>>american patriotism is less rooted in any intrinsic European wisdom or
>>modesty than in a fairly petty, vicious desire to see the US in trouble.
>
>No it is not. It is rooted in the fact that we have seen how
>nationalism has contributed to wars, death, imperialistic
>conquest, suppression of minorities, racism and many other evils.
>Nationalism of the sort which Americans find natural and
>unexceptional is in Europe regarded as the height of bad
>manners, boorish and dangerous.
>
>Matthew Huntbach
I agree. I am reading the Story of the Irish Race by Sean MacManus and I am up
to the Cromwell years. It is extremely depressing reading to say the least.
This kind of nationalism, whether it is motivated by "religion" or extreme
nationalism has got to stop! We (the human race) has not yet learned to re-
spect other cultures.    The history of Ireland has been and will be repeated
on every culture until we learn that their is a beauty and goodness in di-
versity. I hope learn soon.                              Henry Corcoran
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: worden@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (elizabeth worden)
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:27:33 GMT

I just sent Craig an email suggesting he look around him at women
winning in solo piping and drumming and in top notch bands, then
rethink his rather uninformed words.  I then read one woman's peat
fire flame of Craig and thought I would make my comments on his
lack of touch with present day reality more public than email!
From: bj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:20:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Ieo=yTG00iV3Q64MMz
	<1992Oct5.031646.9967@reed.edu>
Organization: University Libraries - Public Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   I'm learning to play the Celtic harp (VERY slowly--not enough
consistant practice time). After suffering through my learning "Twinkle,
twinkle, little star," and "Yankee Doodle", my husband made one request:
that someday I learn to play "Radar Love." 
    Someday.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: veitch@vxcrna.cern.ch (Liz Veitch)
Subject: Re: Brit Bashing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:25:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.115140.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu>, kellyb@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes...
> 
> By the way, did anyone ever say" I regret that I have
> but one life to give for my country" about England?


Yes, but we got over it in about 1917 in the mud of the Somme.  Try 
reading some of the 1st world war poets.

Liz
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:43:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
>Frankly - who gives a damn? I couldn't care less what Europeans think of
>the US or Americans. In fact, I doubt if most americans would give
>two-cents for the views on the US from Europeans. We are still the leader
>of the free world and we are still the most powerful nation on earth.

This sort of blind "we are the best" attitude was just the
thing which brought Britain down. History shows us that this
complacent trumpet-blowing is one of the prime signs of
decline. Everything is allowed to fall to pieces, sharper and
more competent competitors are ignored, debts are built up
which can never be repaid. Every empire in history shows this
pattern - Rome, Spain, Britain. "Who gives a damn - we're the
best" could be the epitath for all of them.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: byardd@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Orange Marches in Republic ??????
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:24:58 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Dave (Glasgow University)

Yup, he is correct.   Strange as it might seem there are
2 or 3 Orange marches in the Republic.  They are held in 
the border counties where there would be a substantial 
protestant population.  If I remember correctly they are
held on July 11 so bands from the North can attend.  I
think there might also be a chapter (is that what you call
it ??) of the Orange order or the Black order (?) in Donegal.

Donal Byard, College of Business, University of Limerick,
IRELAND.    +353-61-333644 EXT 2134
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:16:46 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

In article <1992Oct5.022907.8101@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>I'd never seen a women's pipe-band until I left Scotland and came to NA,
>and the _last_ one I saw was attempting to play that well known Scottish
>air, "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

  *grin*  You haven't lived 'til you've heard a pipe band do Van Halen's
  "Jump."  I nearly bust a gut laughing.

  Then there's my Father doing the first measure to "Swanee River" and the
  various Monty Python songs from "The Meaning of Life"... Who says the pipes
  aren't versatile?  :)

  Just don't drill 'em out and turn 'em into dog-whistles, please...
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 ---------------------------- REUNITE GONDWANALAND ----------------------------
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:53:43 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Oct1.122721.17504@infodev.cam.ac.uk> ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>
>I'm sure there are women in German oompah bands who wear lederhosen,
>but that doesn't stop it being a traditionally male costume. 

It doesn't stop it being Lederhosen either. :-)


>Craig is
>absolutely right. 

No he's not :-)


>Some American Celtic hobbyists and dilletantes ought
>to remember that Scotland is a nation with a history, not a social club!

	?

>I doubt if Flora MacDonald ever wore a kilt.

But if she had, laddie, it would still have been a kilt :-)

Prince Charlie, you'll agree as an avowed guardian of our history,
is weel kent to have worn a frock :-) :-), which is no doubt
doubtless defined Craig's dictionary as a traditional female
garment, but Charlie's  wearing it didn't turn it into a pair of dungarees.
Indeed this would rather have defeated the purpose :-)



M

(Well girls, aren't some of the lads annoyed !

Perhaps those kilted women pipers are really tootling on mouth organs,
contrary to the evidence of our eyes and ears.)

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 3 Oct 92 23:21:58 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan) writes:
>>Personally I am for maintenance of the net-union. I am a
>>net-unionist I suppose. :-)
>
>  I agree.  If we form too many splinter groups, we'll lose a lot of
>  focus and diversity.

Focus _and_ diversity!  Wow, we Celts are clever!

You know, although I'm trying to drum up support for s.c.scottish, I like
the diversity here myself, that's one of the reasons why I initially posted
reservations about splitting off.  But the diversity in s.c.celtic is also
why I would like to see somewhere else to discuss scottish, not celtic
issues.

Rather than me make some up.  maybe Craig would like to post some of the
topics under discussion in his local Digital group to show what is
appropriate in a Scottish forum but not in the general celtic one.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:57:31 GMT


In article <gT1sRB4w165w@bluemoon.rn.com>, papageno@bluemoon.rn.com (Andrew Armstrong) writes...

>  Also, does anyone know how one might be able to get ahold of music by 
>groups such as Runrig, Rawlin Cross, the Stoaters, or The Alarm in the US, 
>namely (cringing) Ohio?  I haven't seen any of these in local record 
>shops.
> 
For Runrig, when all else fails, try the fan club. They do mail order.

Runrig fan club
55 Wellington Street
Aberdeen
AB2 1BX
Scotland

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare in Ms. and Ala.
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:30:17 GMT

From article <1992Oct5.194156.2202@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, by shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu:
> Ummm.....Excuse me, Mr. Walker, but before you start staing facts
> about the people in other states, perhaps you should live there first?
> 
> You mentioned Alabama and Mississippi and living off welfare and
> food banks.  Perhaps you should visit here and see hwo many familys
> are living off welfare and WHY they are living off welfare?
> 
> I worked as an Eligibility Worker for the Food Stamp Department here
> in Mississippi.  I was employed for 5 years by the Welfare Department.
> So if you have any doubts as to waht I am saying, feel free
> to write me persoinally, but please do not start another flame war
> on this list.  
> 
> I sent this to the list and not to him personally, because I wanted
> to make sure that people did not get the wrong impression 
> because someone who may have never lived in a state can
> supposedly state facts about said state.  *smile*
> 
> Suzanne

A) What ARE you saying?

b) Are you telling me that you have to live in a state before you can
start stating statistics about it?

Since I felt that your statement was so ambibuous I believe that it
should stay in this forum for the moment.

														GW
From: bj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 4 Oct 92 13:01:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.YenpihO00iUz01WZES
	<1992Oct4.082321.3797@rdg.dec.com>
Organization: University Libraries - Public Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Of Craig's list, three items touch on things I've been meaning to ask about:

What is Irn Bru?

Where/how can I get hold of some haggis for this year's Burns Night,
since the Scottish friend who got his mum to send him some (marked
"Confectionary") for the past 2 yrs. is now in Japan--? I doubt VERY
much if American butchers would supply the traditional ingredients,
which is also why it's so hard to obtain here--I can't ask for it at our
local Giant Eagle Supermarket.

Anyone know where I could order some of the "My Friends..." series by
Jane Duncan? Or any of her "Janet Reachfar" children's books? I have a
few (mostly obtained in second hand bookstores when I was in Scotland
several yrs. ago) and now my mother is hooked--the Janet Sandison of
Reachfar is an exact contemporary of hers--and I'd like to get some or
even just one for a Christmas gift for her.

Thanks in advance for any info.

                                            --Barra


Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard