HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Date: 5 Oct 1992 20:57:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 583@math.uwaterloo.ca, arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.200454.26966@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct2.182653.29153@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> >
> >|> If you're a pro rider you need every advantage. If you are a recreational
> >|> rider and buy this stuff, you'll just have your doors blown off by some
> >|> 17 year old kid on a box stock Trek 1400.
> >|> 
> >
> >And perhaps I would have my doors blown off by the same kid even worse without
> >the stuff.  Please make some sense.
> >
> But if you use all the most expensive equipment and get your doors
> blown off by the kid you look a lot sillier.  Must be a pretty
> expensive aerodynamic bicycle that has doors, by-the-way.
> 
> Adrian.
> arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca


What he's saying is that it is more important to not look silly, than to
take advantage of bike technology in order to improve your own cycling
performance. Heaven forbid one look silly.
So only equip yourself with enough non-stock cycling items such that 
anyone riding without any one, cannot pass you at any given point. 1/2 :-)



John
From: 2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Sensor for Computer
Date: 5 Oct 1992 21:19:01 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

Greetings,
	I am an electrical engineering student at Marquette University.  As a 
project for one of my classes, I have chosen to build a bicycle computer.  
What I need to obtain is a sensor to iterface with our processor (8086) to 
obtain the speed of the bicycle.  What I had in mind was some sort of spoke-
mounted magnet which, when passing a fork-mounted sensor, would produce a 
small electrical signal to be interfaced with the processor.  Does anybody 
know where I may be able to obtain this sort of device?  Am I looking at this
problem the wrong way?  Are there other (better) ways to acomplish the same
task?

	Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jay Nabedian
2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ssorensen@jplpds.jpl.nasa.gov (Sugi Sorensen)
Subject: Re: Time Trial Wheels
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.050309.21980@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, I wrote:

> In article <1992Oct2.015323.24058@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, goell@nomad.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael
> Batchelder) writes:
> > Each January the USCF does a series of aerodynamic tests of various
> > commercially available aero products at the low-speed wind tunnel
> > at Texas A&M University.  The great deal of the time is spent testing
> > various aero wheels.  I have some hard copy graphs of drag vs. angle
> > of attack for a bunch of different wheels.  GIVEN THEIR SET-UP, the
> > CLEAR winner was HED. ...
> > ...
> The articles I have read do not support these claims. Please cite your
> sources. If you have the hard copy graphs, why do you not remember the
> "next nearest competitor wheel." Perhaps reading it off of your graph
> would help?
> 
> Contrary to your claim that "the Specialized tri-spoke (and all other
> n spoke wheels) ended up having MORE drag than a normal 32 hole spoked
> wheel", the following articles showed otherwise when compared to various
> other wheels:
> 
> (1) Zahrdanik, Fred and Drake, Geoff, "Fast Decisions...", BICYCLING,
> Jan/Feb. 1992, pp.49-53.

Sorry, but the date is wrong on this article. It should be Jan/Feb 1991, not 1992.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ken@visix.com (Ken Mayer)
Subject: Re: Advice on chains..
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:49:44 GMT
Reply-To: ken@visix.com
	<gavind.717902904@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>
	<1992Oct1.145248.6571@bohra.cpg.oz.au>
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA

-->On Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:52:48 GMT, daavid@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Daavid Turnbull) said:

>
> Even better...put your chain plus solvent (kerosene) into a sonicator and
 Daavid>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^
 Daavid> Ok I'll bite.  What is it?  A sony walkman detector with
 Daavid> optional chain cleaner attachement or parhaps an instrument
 Daavid> for determining how many mail children you will have?
> turn on for about 15-20 seconds...garanteed to extract every last nasty
 Daavid>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Daavid> Whatever it is it must be mighty powerful stuff.  Last time I
 Daavid> cleaned my chain is took me about 2 hours!

I guess he means an ultrasonic cleaner. A little device used to clean
jewlery and other finely detailed objects with a little solvent and
ultrasonic vibrations.

Not to detour this subject too much, but I have a related question.
Recently I attempted my first century. I say attempted because the day
of the ride was the same day an old tropical storm depression decided
to sail through !!! It rained buckets. I did get about halfway before
I noticed that my chain, cassette and chain ring were absolutely DRY!
[Yikes!] Not only did I not have the necessary lubricants handy, but
the support vehicles were nowhere near (my fault for getting a late
start) and my bottom bracket had developed a nasty scrapping sound. 

I got to a pay phone, called for a pick up, and promptly took my
trusty steed to the local bike shop for repairs. A little chain lube
fixed problem one, but they had to replace a bearing and then repack
the bottom bracket. Later I asked the fellows at the shop for advice.
I learned a few things:

1) Use the chain lube spray on the chain only. The silicon lube will
actually wash away the grease from bearings in the wheel hubs and the
bottom bracket.

2) Part of general maintenance (before or after each ride) should
include, removing the chain from the chain ring and spinning the
pedals. Listen/Feel for any grinding of bearings. If you detect some
grinding, its probably time to repack the bearings. Do the same
spinning for the front and rear wheels.

Some things and didn't learn and would like to know:

I use a citrus chain degreaser from time to time to clean the gook off
of the chain and cassette. Then I spray with silicon based lube spray.
I've seen heavier weight stuff (almost waxy), is that more for
mountain bikes? What's good criteria for clean the chain. 

Beside from general cleanlines, is there any other maintenance I can
do on the wheels without spending US$100 (approx) for tools and and a
book to do it (I plan to get these anyway, but not until next season.) 

Ken
--

Ken Mayer (ken@visix.com)
Visix Software Inc./703.758.8230
  Bene Vivere Ultio Optima --- Living Well is the Best Revenge
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: Why no cantilevers on racing bikes?
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:40:13 GMT

> Since I posted my original message, a couple of possibilities have occured to
> me:
> 
> 1. Since sidepulls aren't mounted of braze on bosses, maybe they're
> easier/cheaper to replace if the brake gets bent in a crash. I don't know if
> it's the case now, but back in the pre-aero & PowerBars days, most components
> of a racing bike (e.g. gear levers) were clipped on, rather than mounted on
> braze on bosses, for this reason.

Really?  Where does this come from?  

It is true, though, that cantilevers are more vulnerable in a crash than are
sidepulls.

> 
> 2. Tradition (this is my bet :-)
> 
> Still doesn't really make sense, though. I mean, if even technofreaks (aka
> `racers not afraid to embrace new technology -  e.g. Lemond) haven't used
> anthing other than stock Dura Ace or Campag Deltas, then what's going on?
> 

Maybe technofreaks like Lemond have found "stock Dura Ace or [in GL's case]
Campag Deltas" to be the best brakes for the job.

> It's a dark and mysterious world we live in.

Sure is.

In an earlier post, I stated that VN had reported that Casartelli (winner of
the Olympics Men's RR) used cantis on his Colnago.  The picture in the latest
Winning shows that at least the front brake was a Chorus.  Just trying to be
accurate...


Dave.
> 
> --
> Rabbi Bajzheet - The Hooded Oesophagus  __o `God needs food, badly!'
> Usenet: rabbi@crfm.gen.nz              _`\<,_   - Freidrich Neitzsche
> Snail: 12 St Aun n St, Devonport, AK (_)/ (_) Voice: +64 09 445-1186
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cateye Micro average speed algorithm?
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:08:52 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <fy3-V2-@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>
>I'm not sure . . . but sometimes I get the feeling that when I am not looking
>at my milage computer, it is actually on both sides of my handle bar!

I see many many bikes tunnel right through stop lights ever day, I'm
not surprised at all that your computer can tunnel from one side of the
bar to the other... :-)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:23:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.224537.258@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:

>I don't remember anybody mentioning 20 mph.  It is not reasonable to
>expect that everyone posting here has the same riding ability or
>participates in the same rides or races.

20 mph is about the average speed of most people. I'm sure that if you
look closely enough you will find that most people who buy 'aero' equipment
aren't the kind who can get benefits out of them.

>The picture of McCarthy published in Velo-News seemed to show a bike
>with no seat tube (and maybe a set of mid-stays).  While I doubt that
>McCarthy's bike was as well streamlined as the Lotus, it didn't appear
>to be a funny bike from 1980.  He was also using "aero" wheels.

If you look into historic bicycle designs you will find that particular
frame design was tried several times including in the 1890's. There
is nothing new under the sun. And the advantages of the Lotus have
been greatly overstated (as usual). Not that there _isn't_ an advantage,
mind you, but that it is incredably slight for so much money invested.
>
>Aero equipment does make a real difference.  From my own experiences, I
>estimate that aero bars are worth close to 1 mph.  I also estimate that
>a disk rear wheel and blade-spoked front are worth about a second in a
>1000 m TT.  For someone riding non-competitively these differences are
>negligible.  For someone racing, they are significant gains.

Ahh, the whole point -- "for someone riding non-competitively these
differences are negligable." And this was my whole point. Furthermore,
aero equipment can be a handicap and very non-aero. Take for instance
disk wheels on the front, in a side wind. Clip-on's with lots of climbing.
Aero tubes on a frame anytime (HA!)
>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:55:07 GMT

In article <BvoCty.C6K@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>
>But what happens if you're riding a door?  Does your aerodynamic equipment get
>blown off?

Who is it? Trimble? I believe so -- he makes a bike that very closely
resembles a door with wheels and it is a triathlete flyer. :-)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: cs4ec3at@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Kerr         P)
Subject: Re: Re: My first Century!!!
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:26:23 GMT

Along the same lines, has anyone tried the Byrne Speedplay pedal system?
I have a set on my racing bike (TREK 5500) and want a set for my touring
bike.  Needless to say, I LOVE 'em!

Comments?
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: freewheel vices
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:07:04 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <BvMFxB.1ot@sju.edu> iyermish@sju.edu (I. Yermish) writes:
>
> [description of freewheel vice deleted]
>
>I've used a Black and Decker Workmate to accomplish the same task.  I
>open up the the top (which acts as a vise) and attach two pieces of
>soft wood (e.g. pine) and then close the vise on the largest sprockets
>of the freewheel.  But I guess you have to have a Workmate :-)

I do (or rather, my wife does) and there's no way the thing is strong
enough to hold the freewheels I've taken apart lately.  And I don't use
my smallest cog (the one that typically has to be removed) more than once
a month.

Our Workmate isn't strong enough as a vice to hold a freewheel vice firmly
enough to resist the force needed to unscrew that cog.  Even if you didn't
ruin it you'd wind up dragging it across the floor before the cog would
budge.  Those puppies get screwed down pretty tight.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
"Quayle in '94"		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: blp@cypress.com (Bruce Prickett/PROM)
Subject: Worn-out Front Derailleur (after 300 miles)
Keywords: tandems, front derailleur
Reply-To: blp@cypress.com.UUCP (Bruce Prickett/PROM)
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor, San Jose, CA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:48:27 GMT

While my wife and I were on vacation, we had problems using
the front derailleur on our tandem. The mechanic found that
the front derailleur itself was worn out, and recommended
we get it replaced under warranty. (He wasn't the one who
had sold us the bike ;-))The strange thing was that we only
had 300 miles on the tandem!!! The derailleur was clearly
SHOT, with a huge amount of play. I'd like suggestions
for how to avoid this in the future.

The datails: this is a Yokota Twin-Peaks mountain tandem,
with a Shimano Deore DX front derailleur. It came stock
with 42-36-28 chain-rings (I think), and we've replaced the
28 with a 24. After putting the 24 ring on, we started having
frequent problems with throwing the chain when we shifted
from 36 to 24. We usually ride the roads, but sometimes have
to climb reasonable grades (< 10 %).

My questions:

1) when is the most stress put on a front derailleur?
I imagine it is when shifting down while climbing.

2) what experiences have other people had with wear on the
front derailleur? 300 miles is way too short.

3) Any suggestions, especially from tandem riders? We find it
difficult to back off pedalling when shifting, since the shift
from 36 to 24 is usually done when we are about to bog down.
To prevent throwing the chain, I now shift up 2 cogs before
shifting down to the 24T chain-ring.

4) We are replacing the shot derailleur with a shimano XTR unit,
since it looks heftier. Any reccomendations for a bullet-proof
front deraiileur? (I know this is in rec.bicyles.tech, but it seems
a fair question)

	Bruce P.
	blp@cypress.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: chi@ucsee.Berkeley.EDU (Chi)
Subject: Preventing Quick Release Theft
Summary: little locks
Reply-To: chi@ucsee.Berkeley.EDU
Organization: University of California
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:30:27 GMT

A couple months ago, I saw a "theft-deterrent device" in a Performance
shop.  This device was a metal sleeve and a small padlock.  From the package
instructions, the sleeve goes between the cone nut and the skewer lever.
The padlock fits into a small hole in the sleeve and locks around the lever
and the sleeve, preventing opening of the lever.

I ride my bike to school, and the whole area is generally unsafe with
respect to bike theft.  Instead of removing of the front tire each time I lock
the bike, I was considering buying the thing from Performance (don't know if
it's in the catalog), maybe even one for the rear.  What's your opinion?

Please resond via email as I don't read this group often.  Thanks in advance.

-- 
                                   Albert Chi
                                   chi@ucsee.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ssorensen@jplpds.jpl.nasa.gov (Sugi Sorensen)
Subject: STI lever problem
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:10:34 GMT

I recently converted my bike to Dura Ace STI and seemed to have broken
the right brake/shifter lever combo. The lever will shift from smaller
to larger cogs just fine, but when shifting from larger to smaller cogs,
the chain skips all the way to the bottom cog, not one at a time.
I installed the lever according to directions (made sure smaller shifter
lever had been depressed at least eight times before tightening cable
to rear derailleur). The lever worked fine for a day, then broke as I
was adjusting the rear derailleur tension adjustment barrel. I tried
to effect repairs, including disassembly according to instructions,
but to no avail. Shop says I'm out of luck and must send it back to
Shimano for warranty repair. Anyone have a similar problem before?
Is it user serviceable or am I out of luck as the shop says?

Thanks in advance.

-Sugi Sorensen-
Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: brianh@hp-21.cae.wisc.EDU (Brian Huilman)
Subject: Re: Sensor for Computer
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Distribution: usa
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:26:33 CDT
Originator: brianh@hp-21.cae.wisc.edu


Yes, I think you are going about it in a little indirect fashion.  Although it
seems that a lot of the readers on the net are techies, I think you could do
some better research (I hope you are...). 

I'm also an electrical engineering student, here at UW-Madison.  I've been 
working on an electric car project sponsored by Ford since last semester.  Our
first major task was in deciding on which sensors to use and where to get them
(along with all the hardware-- what bus, which CPU, which I/O controllers, etc)
After  going through that, I learned a lot about research.  Here's my 
suggestion:

   Go to your library and have someone point out the 'Thompson Index.'   It's
a book filled with nothing but companies specializing in xxxxxx.  If you want
sensors, turn to the sensors section and voila- there are umpteen gazillion
companies that make nothing but sensors (or have a strong sensors product
line).  Give them a call, most will mail or fax you info for free (they need
the business).

Good luck.

Brian Huilman           University of Wisconsin - Madison
                        Department of Electrical/Computer Engineering
"Avoid the Bonk"        brianh@cae.wisc.edu
             _   __o
           ___  `\<,    "Speed is the reward for hard training."
             -  O/ O
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: DURA-ACE freewheel maint.
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:29:42 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Sep29.084831.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> ross@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:
>
>I have read that [Dura-Ace] freewheels have good seals and also
>provide lubrication ports.  With the Maillard, for maintanence I would
>soak the freewheel in degreaser, then fill with Phil Wood Tenacious Oil
>(by dripping oil into the four holes on the outside of the freewheel).
>What's the best procedure for the Dura-Ace freewheel?  Can I basically 
>follow the same technique?  How often does this need to be done?  
>
Funny you should ask, as I just did this last night to three Shi*mano 6-speed
freewheels, two DA and one 600, for the first time.

There is a lubrication port, but it is under the second- and third-largest
cogs.  You remove the smallest cog by unscrewing it with whips or a sprocket
vice, then slide the remaining cogs off.  Put your oil in the port, clean
all parts and reassemble.  Do it as often as they need it, that is, before
they get gritty enough that damage is likely to occur.

BTW, I was happy to discover that the Dura-ace and 600 cogs and bodies are
entirely interchangable; in fact, I didn't see any obvious difference between
the two models.  I wouldn't have expected this from Shi*mano, which suggests
that my low opinion of that company is not entirely justified.

Also BTW, I prefer the location of the lubrication ports on these freewheels
to that on my Suntour Winner [Pro]s, which is drilled into the threads that
attach the freewheel body to the hub.  The Suntour port is enough harder to
get oil into that the extra effort required to remove the Shimano cogs is
easily repaid in time saved oiling the body.  Besides, you're likely to want
to remove the cogs for cleaning as part of a complete freewheel cleaning.
Of course, my opinion might be different if I owned a better oil applicator
and didn't own a very nice freewheel vice and chain whip.

-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
"Quayle in '94"		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Waxing or Oiling a chain?
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:51:46 GMT

In article <5337@gold.gvg.tek.com> jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim
Delwiche) writes: 

>I think 1000 miles is a little bit often.  I use 3000 as a rule of
>thumb, ...

It is more  reliable to measure chain stretch than depend on a mileage
guage.  The wear on a chain is at the pins and cams at the ends of the
links.  The accmulated wear is what makes the chain longer, not real
stretch.

>P.S. I noticed a clever do-dad in one of the cycling rags recently.
>... You hold it up to the chain ... , you can estimate chain stretch.

You can measure chain stretch pretty precisely, on or off the bike.  I
do it every time I clean and lube the chain.  Stretch the chain,
measure from pin to pin over a distance of 12" (30.5 cm).  If the actual
distance to the pin nearest 12" (30.5 cm) is actually 12 1/8" (30.8
cm) or more, the chain is excessively worn.  When the chain is worn 
12 1/16" (30.7 cm), order a new chain from a mail order catalogue. 

>Probably costs a fortune.

But then, if you scrounge around in your drawers and closets, you are
bound to find a **free** 12", 18", or 36" ruler. Or a 50 cm or 100 cm
one, if you are not into counting by the king's toes.
If you are desperate, you could even spring for a new one at the
stationer's, or a nifty metal one from the tool section at the
hardware store.
-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Are long seatposts a problem? (was Re: Broken rear dropout)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:53:04 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1as5naINN1lj@uwm.edu> rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ronald J Friedel) writes:
>
>... [M]y seat tube was cracked
>almost half way around!  The flex of the seat tube was stopped right where
>the seat post ended.  (I did have a long seat post with much of it in the
>seat tube.)

This makes me wonder if having a long, inflexible seatpost running halfway
down the seattube is a bad thing.  I needed a bit more than the standard
180mm and so bought a mt. bike post for my road bike, but haven't bothered
to cut off the considerable excess since I figure I might want to use it
on an ATB frame some day.

Is this a foolish thing to do?  Should I cut the thing off already and stop
lugging the extra ounces around?  The seattube is butted, so I doubt the
post has much contact with the tube walls below the opening except when the
frame is really flailing around.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
"Quayle in '94"		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"