From: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Subject: jws: false prophets?
Reply-To: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: talk
Date: 26 Sep 92 11:56:11 EST

Todd, re:  "false prophets".  I feel you have a valid concern, but that there
are important pieces of information missing from your treatment.

In <TODD.92Sep2112309#palomar.tivoli.com>, todd@palomar.tivoli.com writes:
>[5] Does the WTS claim to be God's prophet?  How can we tell the difference
>    between a prophet of Jehovah and a false prophet? (see Deut 18:20-22)
>[7] Would God allow his channel to mislead the faithful?  Would God allow his
>    prophet to make a mistake? (remember Deut 18:20-22)  Would it be necessary
>    for God's faithful and discreet slave to mislead of be deceptive?

Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses (not "the WTS") do claim to act as a prophet
collectively -- not as individuals, since we're all imperfect and fallible.

Yes, we have changed some beliefs over the years; many of the things you've
claimed we believe we don't believe any more.  Jehovah reveals more of truth
and of His plans as time passes.  For instance, the meaning of most of Daniel
wouldn't be known until "the time of the end" by Jehovah's own decree; in the
meantime even true worshipers wouldn't be able to understand it completely
correctly.  (Daniel 12:4,9,10) Jesus himself told his followers:  "`I have many
things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present.'"
(John 16:12) This is the basic idea:  progressive revelation.  Here are a few
Scriptural examples that come to mind:

1. In John 21:20-23, Peter asked Jesus about another apostle's future.  Yet
those Christians misunderstood Jesus' reply:

    "In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers, that that
    disciple would not die.  However, Jesus did not say to him that he
    would not die, but:  `If it is my will for him to remain until I come,
    of what concern is that to you?'"  (John 21:23)

Those disciples spoke about the future wrongly in Jesus' name!  Were they false
prophets?  No; they'd simply misunderstood Jesus' words.

2. In Acts 1:6, just before Jesus' ascension, the disciples still thought that
Jesus was going to restore the political Kingdom of Israel, despite the fact
Jesus had taught them otherwise and even told Pilate that "my kingdom is no
part of this world."  (John 18:36) Jesus corrected them in the next verses.

The disciples had wrong beliefs about the future.  Were they false prophets?
No; they just didn't understand completely yet.  Note that, when they were
corrected, they changed their beliefs to be in line with what God and Christ
had now revealed; in the later books, they no longer held to this belief.
Similarly, we Witnesses quickly reject erroneous beliefs we may once have held
as soon as Jehovah's progressive revelation shows that they're wrong.

3. In 1 Chronicles 17, the prophet Nathan spoke to David:

    "And it came about that as soon as David had begun dwelling in his
    house, David proceeded to say to Nathan the prophet:  `Here I am
    dwelling in a house of cedars, but the ark of the covenant of Jehovah
    is under tent cloths.'  Upon that Nathan said to David:  `Everything
    that is in your heart do, for the true God is with you."  (17:1,2)

Nathan is specifically called a prophet and, speaking in Jehovah's name, he
says flatly that Jehovah is with David in constructing the temple.  But:

    "And it came about on that night that the word of God came to Nathan,
    saying:  `Go, and you must say to David my servant, "This is what
    Jehovah has said:  `It will not be you that will build me the house in
    which to dwell.'"'"  (17:3,4)

Was Nathan a false prophet?  He spoke wrongly about Jehovah's purposes in
Jehovah's name, and had had to be corrected!  But Jehovah didn't reject Nathan
for what he'd said earlier but continued to use him as we keep reading on...
but why?  Why didn't Jehovah reject this man who'd prophesied wrongly in His
name?  Note Nathan's reaction to Jehovah's instructions:

    "According to all these words and according to all this vision was the
    way that Nathan spoke to David."  (17:15)

There it is:  Nathan humbly accepted he was wrong, and CHANGED HIS MESSAGE in
line with what he now better saw was really the truth.  He didn't proudly cover
it over or try to justify himself; he humbly corrected the matter when Jehovah
made it plain to him.  Todd, that's all we do.  When we see we are in error, we
humbly correct the matter.  Of course, many have said:  "Hey, first they said
one thing and then they said another!"  True.  "So they're false prophets!"
No, for Nathan himself said one thing and then said another, but the reason for
the change was that he humbly accepted divine correction when it came.

Wouldn't the real sin lie in learning what was right, but sticking to the error
anyway?  As James said (in another context, but showing we should never forget
to consider Jehovah's will):  "Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right
and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him."  (James 4:17) Yet we've seen
"Christian" churches sticking to proven error for centuries (e.g., Galileo).

Todd, pease let me know your thoughts on this.  Take care,

Herb

.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Beware of programmers bearing screwdrivers.                                 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|UUCP:canrem!herb.sutter INTERNET:herb.sutter@canrem.com COMPUSERVE:70312,1233|
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'

:DeLuxe2 1.12 #9091 * File not found.  Should I fake it? (Y/N)
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044