HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:37:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Russ Corfman (corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP) writes:

> Marc San Soucie (marcs@slc.com) writes:

> > our weekly circuit race, which is a short race held on an automobile 
> > racetrack each Tuesday for 5-6 months in spring and summer. This latter is 
> > a fabulously successful series of races. The course is dead flat, has no 
> > corners (only auto-drivable curves), is quite wide, and has no traffic. 
> > Speeds are fast, and most of the time the racing is safe. Since so many 
> > towns around the country have auto racetracks, clever promoters everywhere 
> > ought to consider setting up a similar series. I know of two or three other 
> > towns that have such races (Seattle among them).

> ...
> I wish there was a series at the Phoenix International Raceway or the.
> Firebird race track. Maybe I ought to get my club to investigate this...

Maybe the USCF ought to work to encourage this. We get huge packs of novice
and Cat 5 racers out for this race. It seems like a superb way to get
people who are worried about racing on the road interested in trying a
race.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: MTB Worlds Results?
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 14:41:29 GMT

I will be attending the World's in person.  I will endeavour 
(but not promise ;) ) to get the results posted.


Cheers ... Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:16:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.032304.13592@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>  Part 3. Upgrading by Performance.
>  (a) Riders accumulate upgrading points in their category in qualifying
>  as follows:
>  (1) First place gets one point for every 10 riders in the race in
>      the rider's category or higher;
>  (2) Second place gets 2 points less that first, but not less than 0;
>  (3) Third and following places get 1 point less than the preceding
>      place but not less than 0.

Excellent!

>  (b) A qualifying race for the purpose of upgrading road categories
>  is one of the following races that is not a handicap, club, or
>  training race.
>  (1) Individual road races at least 100 km. long for men or 70 km.
>      for women.
>  (2) Criteriums at least 40 km. long for men or 32 km. for women.
>  (3) Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned both
>      in qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.

I would love to see longer races (in all categories), but I see a big
problem here for categories 3 and 4, at least in New England.  Of the
27 USCF cat. 3 and 4 races I did last year, not a single one would
qualify based on distance.  This includes all the major New England
one-day and stage races.  The only cat. 3 race I can think of that
would qualify is the Streaked Mountain spring race (85 miles, but has
a small turnout due to remoteness and difficulty), districts (which of
course is cat. 1-2-3) and the Harvard 100k (also 1-2-3).  I can think
of no cat. 4 race that would qualify (districts last year were 90k).
The only way to get points would be from overall placings in stage
races (which apparently have no minimum distance requirements).

Maybe someone will think of a race or two that I have overlooked, but
the point is clear: either there is going to be a BIG change in race
distances next year (not likely given that promoters are already
making plans for next year's races), or no one will be upgrading in
New England (except from 2 to 1).

One possibility is to scale by category, say, 80k for cat. 3, and 60k
for cat. 4.  Another consideration is the role of climbing.  For
example, the Brandon Gap stage of the Killington Stage Race (being run
today!) is only 45 miles, but with about 3500 feet of climbing is one
of the most legendary among cat. 3 and 4 riders.  Mount Evans is less
than 30 miles.  Mount Washington is 7.6 miles.

It may make sense to start with distances now that at least
approximate the average race distance for each class, and then
gradually increase that distance over a period of years.

John_Ampe@att.com
From: lisap@olomana.soest.hawaii.edu (Lisa Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Cycle to the Sun race results
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:35:39 GMT
Organization: School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology
Originator: lisap@olomana

All riders who think they're too old, listen up!

Cycle to the Sun, a 34-mile, 10,000-foot-climb time trial, was held
yesterday (September 11) on the island of Maui.  Competing for 
$10,000 in prizes, 115 riders started and only 15 abandoned the race
part way up.  Hurricane Iniki had little affect on Maui's weather,
and even though it was clear on race day, it was windy -- 20 mph winds
over the upper half of the course.  Temperatures ranged from 80 at the
bottom to 45 at the top, yet no one thought it was cold until they
reached the finish line and got off their bikes.

The overall winner was Jim Allen of Petaluma, CA, with a time of 2:48
AND A RACING AGE OF 42.  Allen, this year's Masters national road
champion, was the 92nd rider to start (30 second intervals) and the
first rider across the finish line!  Second best time was 2:57 by 
Robert Templin, a VeloNews writer in his late 30's.  Unfortunately, 
Templin was disqualified for crossing the centerline.  Senior Men's 
race was won by a Maui rider, Forrest Treadwell, with a time of 3:00. 
Vivian Soperholm-Difatte, women's record-holder, returned again this year
and won the women's race with a time of 3:26.  Another local rider,
James Goyet of Honolulu, won junior men.

I did this race 2 years ago, and this year went as a USCF official
and worked the finish line.  Riding this race is more fun than
officiating.

Lisa Petersen
From: ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: RESULTS: Grand Prix Eddy Merckx.
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:06:42 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

The Grand Prix Eddy Merckx was held last weekend in Brussels.  This
is an individual time trial over 62 kilometres.  The first two places
were taken by riders from the Buckler team.  This team will fold at
the end of this season, although it appears it may be taken over by
another sponsor.  Third place was taken by Thierry Marie, who is more
noted for being a prologue time trial specialist.

Grand Prix Eddy Merckx (62 kms, Brussels)

1.  Jelle Nijdam (Buckler)  1h 17m 40.62s
2.  Frans Maassen (Buckler)  at 52s
3.  Thierry Marie (Castorama)  at 1m 1s
4.  Udo Bolts (Telekom)  at 2m 3s
5.  Herman Frison (Tulip)  at 2m 44s
6.  Laurent Fignon (Gatorade)  at 2m 46s
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Subject: NCCA Eligibility (was: Re: Whats up ECCC?)
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:33:10 GMT

In his article Steve Litvin writes:
>I do have question...what makes someone eligable to ride as a colligate
>racer...full time student, grad student, part time student...thanks in
>advance....steve litvin

According to the 1992 National Collegiate Cycling Association Competition
Guide (which is last year's edition), under "Membership," it reads:

ELIGIBILITY--Collegiate Events
Riders must be members of the NCCA and must be currently enrolled in a
university or a community college as undergraduate or graduate students to
participate in collegiate events.  Riders must provide proof of enrollment
at each event.  This proof can be in the form of an enrollment receipt, a
student I.D. card, a transcript, or a written and signed statement from
the Registrar's office confirming the student's eligibility.  Faculty
cannot compete in collegiate races.  (Conference Regulations apply where
requirements are stricter than NCCA Regulations.)
[...]

ELIGIBILITY--Road and Track National Championships
In order to be eligible to compete at either the Collegiate Road or Track
National Championships, competitors must carry a FULL-TIME class load (as
determined by their individual schools) at the time of competition.  If
the student's school is not in regular session at the time of the National
Championships, the FULL-TIME rule applies to the most recently completed
academic time period.  Graduating students carrying less than a full load
must be fulfilling the graduation requirements.  Seniors who have already
graduated are eligivle if they just graduated the quarter/semester imme-
diately preceding the championships; i.e., two to three weeks prior to
the event.  Graduate students must be enrolled in an approved graduate
program and be fulfilling "in residence" requirements with department
chair confirmation.
[...]


Since the NCCA Board of Trustees is about to meet in Washington during the
Board of Delegated meeting, I suppose that these things might change.  But
these are the rules as I have 'em.

Hope it helps.
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas

From: khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:57:43 GMT
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

In rec.bicycles.racing, les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:

> Part of the upgrading proposal that I posted earlier says:
> >  (b) A qualifying race for the purpose of upgrading road categories
> >  is one of the following races that is not a handicap, club, or
> >  training race.
> >  (1) Individual road races at least 100 km. long for men or 70 km.
> >      for women.
> >  (2) Criteriums at least 40 km. long for men or 32 km. for women.
> >  (3) Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned both
> >      in qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.
> 
> John Ampe remarks:
> >I would love to see longer races (in all categories), but I see a big
> >problem here for categories 3 and 4, at least in New England.  Of the
> >27 USCF cat. 3 and 4 races I did last year, not a single one would
> >qualify based on distance.  This includes all the major New England
> >one-day and stage races.  [.  .  .]
> 
> A valid point.  I hesitate to make the proposal still more
> complicated, but perhaps cases (1) and (2) should read as follows.
>   (1) Individual road races of at least the following distances.
> 	Category	Men	Women
> 	   2		100 km.	 70 km.
> 	   3		 80	 60
> 	   4		 60	 50
> 	   5		 50
>   (2) Criteriums of at least the following distances.
> 	Category	Men	Women
> 	   2		 40 km.	 35 km.
> 	   3		 35	 30
> 	   4		 30	 25
> 	   5		 25

If there should not be a sharp cutoff based on field size for upgrading
points, why should there be a shart cutoff based on length of the race?
I think 100km minimum is appropriate for Cat 2, but 80km (50mi) is
still longer than many Cat 3 road races which are already of appreciable
difficulty due to hilly profile, windy conditions, fast pace, etc.
I think 70km is a better figure for min Cat 3 qualifying race length.
(That way the road race lengths for 3-4-5 are all twice the length
of the criterium lengths).  Given the sparsity of long road races,
the minimum length requirement would make it very difficult for a Cat 3
to get upgrading points in anything but crits.

Thanks for taking our inputs, Les!

Keith Erskine
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: MTB Worlds Results?
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 23:12:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: SMIS, Massey University

We folk from the other side of the Pacific would greatly appreciate someone
from Canada (or anyone else attending the MTB worlds) posting results
and/or commentries.  Any takers?

--------------------------------------------------------
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+12
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ozalp@dm.unibo.it (Ozalp Babaoglu)
Subject: indurain takes the overall lead in tour of catalonia
Originator: ozalp@elettra
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Bologna, Italy
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:31:11 GMT


with only one more stage to go, indurain took over the lead from zulle.
today's stage was won by rominger who beat martin and indurain in the
sprint.  the finish at valter (2,000m) took its toll on zulle and bugno who
finished more than 4 minutes behind.

indurain leads rominger by 19" and martin by 1'18" in the general
classification.
-- 
Ozalp Babaoglu					E-mail:	ozalp@dm.unibo.it
University of Bologna, Dept. of Mathematics
Piazza di Porta S. Donato, 5			TEL:	+39 51 354430
40127 Bologna  (ITALY)				FAX:	+39 51 354490
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:34:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Don McGregor (drm@esl.com) writes:

> Russ Corfman (corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP) writes:

> > These races were always well attended and competetive. I went to one a 
> > couple of years ago and a few of the same people from the early 80's
> > were still going. Granted the vast majority I'd never met nor had they
> > heard of me.

> Those weekly races are fun.  the course doesn't even need to vary much.   
> There's a certain charm in knowing that everyone's going to bunch up  
> elbow-to-elbow on the final lap on the backstretch of Delta Park, go like  
> a bat out of hell through the curves, then die on that too-long sprint to  
> the finish :-)

Yeah, but some of us do our best to foil the bunch sprinters. My one win 
out there this season came in a two-man, last-lap breakaway that worked for 
some reason.


> The usual suspects do tend to hang out for a while.  I hear David Auker is  
> still going. he was a vet even back when I was racing in the early 80's.

Still going? Jeez - he still places occasionally in Pro-1-2 races against
the big national pro teams. At age 42!

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: mike@pyrdc.UUCP (Mike Whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Kilometer TT
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:41:33 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology, Government Systems

In article <1992Sep15.052002.16084@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
> I somehow missed that article but saw the same claim earlier in one of
> the r.b groups.  I subsequently talked to a friend who officiated at
> the Olympic cycling events and he said that he saw no such bike.  It
> appears to me that someone is confused.  Most likely it was the
> VeloNews reporter.  If someone can tell me where that article
> appeared, I will take it up with VeloNews.
Les,
	The article is in the August 24 issue of velonews. It is on page 50.
Here is the text of the article, it was written (byline at least) by John
Wilcockson.

	"Alder Capelli,only 18, rode a personal best of 1:05.065 to finish 
fifth ... using a bike fitted with a freewheel and a rear derailleur! Using
a bar end shifter, Capelli rode a lower gear to make his starting effort,
before shifting up after 200 meters. The small saving in energy enabled the 
Italian to ride the second fastest final lap, behind Moreno."

There is no picture of the bike/rider in VeloNews to confirm this but 
Wilcockson is usually a pretty acurate reporter.

-- mike --


-- 
                 -=---------  Michael C. Whitman
               ---===-------  National System Engineer - Telecom
             -----=====-----  Pyramid Technology Corporation
           -------=======---  1921 Gallows Road, Suite 250
         ---------=========-  Vienna, VA 22182

	Phone: (703) 848-2050	Pager: (800)sky-page pin# 45300
	    mike@pyrdc.va.pyramid.com -or- uunet!pyrdc!mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Kilometer TT
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:20:02 GMT

FREDERICK LIAM RICHARD writes:

    I read recently in the Velo News about a racer in the Olympics
    who rode a bike with a freewheel and a derallieur! Isn't this highly
    illegal? Or is it only illegal in the USCF?

Under UCI rules, gears may be use in record attempts for the kilometer
TT, but such devices are not permitted in competition in any
international events.

I somehow missed that article but saw the same claim earlier in one of
the r.b groups.  I subsequently talked to a friend who officiated at
the Olympic cycling events and he said that he saw no such bike.  It
appears to me that someone is confused.  Most likely it was the
VeloNews reporter.  If someone can tell me where that article
appeared, I will take it up with VeloNews.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:23:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep6.003658.26956@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>  (1) Individual road races of at least the following distances.
>	Category	Men	Women
>	   2		100 km.	 70 km.
>	   3		 80	 60
>	   4		 60	 50
>	   5		 50
>  (2) Criteriums of at least the following distances.
>	Category	Men	Women
>	   2		 40 km.	 35 km.
>	   3		 35	 30
>	   4		 30	 25
>	   5		 25

Looks good.  Even 70k may encompass a majority of cat. 4 races, but
it's probably not worth worrying about the difference.  (Does the USCF
keep a database of race permits that could quickly be analyzed?)

Les, do you see these numbers increasing over time?  If your goal is
to have our amateurs be more competitive in 200k European races, then
we want our cat. 1's to have a demonstrated ability at distances well
over 100k...

>>[.  .  .]   Another consideration is the role of climbing.  For
>>example, the Brandon Gap stage of the Killington Stage Race (being run
>>today!) is only 45 miles, but with about 3500 feet of climbing is one
>>of the most legendary among cat. 3 and 4 riders.  Mount Evans is less
>>than 30 miles.  Mount Washington is 7.6 miles.
>
>John is right, of course, but if this gets much more complicated it is
>likely to be rejected on aesthetic grounds.  

Agreed.  It's just too complicated to factor in climbing.  If riders
feel that races like Iron Horse and Brandon Gap should count toward
upgrade points, I'm sure promoters will get pressured to increase the
distances.

John_Ampe@att.com
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Bklyn NY Al Toefield Memorial Race Quick Results
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:39:20 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC


 I just got back from Prospect Park where the aprox. 100k Toefield Memorial
Race was held. It must have started around 7am and finished around 9:15-
9:30.
 It was a class 3/4 handicap race with class 4 getting (aprox) 5 minutes.

 I got in the park when there were around 7 laps to go. Cat 3 had just caught
cat 4 and the combined field looked to be around 200 riders. (There were also
hundreds of runners, skaters, and other riders out but the lead car and race
marshals kept the road fairly safe for the racers).

 Earlier in the race two Century riders got away from cat 4, caught cat3, got
away from them for a short time, but when the cat 3 pack caught the cat 4 pack
the combined group caught the two man break.

 After the groups combined there were several attempts (almost all by Century
riders) to get away but they would get 10-20 secs and get pulled back.

 With one lap to go there was a 5man Century break working hard to stay away
with an aprox 15sec lead. ON the final lap, about 1/4 mile to the finish this
Century break had increased to 8 riders. It looked like 7 Century with 1 red
striped jersey of unknown team origin.  This break had about 15 secs with the
200 man field blasting after them at around 38 mph coming off the downhill.

 The break made it to the line. There were no crashes! Two amazing results
under the circumstances.

 That's all I know about it. It was around 60degF and the wind was aprox
15mph NW.

-- 
*******************************************************************
paul@panix.com                                    COMPULITE GRAPHICS
Brooklyn NY usa                                Design & Consultation
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Sep5.191623.28447@cbnews.cb.att.com>
	<1992Sep6.003658.26956@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Sep9.222353.1895@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:27:29 GMT

Regarding the suggested minimum distances for qualifying races for
upgrading, John Ampe writes:
   Les, do you see these numbers increasing over time?  If your goal is
   to have our amateurs be more competitive in 200k European races, then
   we want our cat. 1's to have a demonstrated ability at distances well
   over 100k...

Yes, if we can find ways to induce enough organizers to put on such
races.  However, we should not lose sight of the the primary purpose
of the categorization system, which is to divide fields into approximately
equal-sized groups of riders with comparable skills.  Upgrading
criteria should serve that goal primarily but may support other
objectives secondarily.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: fraser@yertle.Colorado.EDU (FRASER KARIN LYN)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: team budgets
Summary: ?'s re: writing a cycling team budget
Keywords: budgets
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:30:35 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I am the Director of a women's cycling team and am putting together our 
sponsorship proposal and projected 1993 budget in preparation for the 
upcoming trade-show in California.  As I have never done this before, I am
interested to hear from anyone who has any ideas/experience in this area.

My specific questions include:

	1) Is it standard practice to have a budget much larger than the
	   amount of sponsorship you EXPECT to receive? For example, almost
	   all of the 15 riders on my team need components of some sort.
	   Should our budget total reflect all these needs?

	2) What is standard in terms of degree of detail in the budget?
	   For example, is "equipment" too general a category? Should it be
	   further broken down to reflect: components, tires, frames etc.?

I will appreciate any other advice on team proposal/budget writing as well.
I can be e-mailed directly at:

	 fraser@yertle.colorado.edu

and will gladly post a summary of the responses I get.

			Kari Fraser 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: pamela@keps.kodak.com (Pamela Blalock)
Subject: Trans-Australia Race
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:00:23 GMT

Any word from down under on how this race is going?

-- 
Pamela Blalock                                     pamela@keps.kodak.com
Kodak Electronic Printing Systems, Inc             9 down, 3 to go!
164 Lexington Road, Billerica, MA 01821-3984       BMB mixed tandem finisher!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing