HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: R.S.BB FAQ V1.22 (9/25/92)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:47:09 GMT

In <0g!p=3b@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose) writes:


>      Also, the group dynamics here are interesting.  Several of the fans
>here are interested in sabermetrics, a term coined to describe the study of
>baseball statistics.  This group includes many of the more prominent posters

What is the purpose of this sentence?  Every poster on this net is equally
"prominent".  Wipe the brown stuff off your nose Kurt...
 
>are welcome to post, note that we've heard most of it before.  Just to set
>the record straight, the more numbers-minded folk are just as knowledgeable
>about the game as their old-school counterparts, watch as many games, in some
>cases even play the game at competitive levels.  Many of them can converse

Hardly.  Certainly some of them are more so.  But from what I can see the
vast majority of so-called "statheads" don't get any closer to the game
than the morning newspaper.

>as easily about swings and mechanics as they can about DA and OPS*.  For the
>most part, they are just using their skills to enjoy and understand the game
>as much as people who don't stare at the Sunday paper with a calculator in
>hand.  Who knows?  They might even be able to do a good job managing a team.
>(Other "stat-heads" include Dave Johnson, Tony LaRussa, Earl Weaver, and 
>Branch Rickey.)

Now you have gone beyond the realm of mildly amusing.  This is truly hilarious.

If you are going to do this faq thing Kurt, you have to try to be at least a
little impartial.  I realize it is an enormous undertaking and I give you
credit for doing it.  I certainly couldn't.  But this is not rec.sport.SDCN.

Otherwise, a very fine job.  Thank you.

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: BRAVES Post Season Roster
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:31:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Sep28.153116.21013
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Houston, Dept. of Chem. Eng.

In article <69197@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt3477c@prism.gatech.EDU (Stutzman, Bryan Raymond) writes:
> 

> 
> SP:  Tom Glavine
>      John Smoltz
>      Steve Avery
>      Charlie Liebrandt
> 
> RP:  Peter Smith
..
> 
> There is also the possibility of moving Peter Smith to the starting rotation
> 
> Bryan Stutzman
> -- 

If Pete Smith isn't in the starting rotation for the playoffs, Cox should be shot.  The Braves are 
something like 10-0 in his starts this year. *Undefeated*.  You just can't bench that kind of
consistency.  If Cox had the balls, he'd drop Glavine from the rotation since he's lost something
like 5 of his last 6.  Granted, however, the Pirates are more vulnerable to left handed starters.

Sam
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Date: 30 Sep 1992 16:02:32 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Sep30.031636.10796@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Do you mean to say that the Brewers would be 40-120 without their baserunning?

    No, but 72-90 wouldn't be out of the question.

>>    directly, but indirectly there have been several. And if you take all of
>>    Milwaukee's offensive attributes and keep them the same except for the
>>    baserunning part, and trade that for Boston's baserunning ability, then
>>    yeah, I think they'd be about 20 games worse.
>>
>>    --salty
>
>You're saying, then, in effect, that the Brewers are *worse* than the
>Red Sox, except for the fact that they're better baserunners.  (Milwaukee's
>19.5 games ahead of the Sox.)

     No, I'm saying that if you leave all of Milwaukee's stats the same,
     (HR, BA, etc) and substitute Rivera for Listach, Clark for Molitor,
     etc., when running the bases, Milwaukee's performance would be much
     worse to the tune of about 20 games. 

>Do you really think that baserunning is the *only* difference between
>Milwaukee and Boston?)

    No, I think batting average and plenty of other things factor into
    it. I wasn't proposing a team-for-team trade at any place other than
    the basepaths.

    --salty

>          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
>         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: BRAVES CLINCH
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:46:38 GMT

Two straight NL West titles!

Bring the 'rates on!

But seriously, take yourself back in time to October 1990. The Braves have
just finished last again.

Go up to a policeman in Atlanta and tell him you think the Braves will win
the next TWO NL West titles, and by OCt 1992 will be one of the dominant
teams in baseball.

The policeman would have escorted you to a padded cell......

-r


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Winning a short series (was Re: TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:13:05 GMT

In <1992Oct06.230633.5599@watson.ibm.com> mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.212915.27498@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>In <19888@ector.cs.purdue.edu> gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter) writes:
>>>alone fire the manager -- don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Cito
>>>replaced, but not making it to the series isn't the reason -- he's
>>>simply not a good tactical manager).  Also, anybody who thinks that
>>This Cito bashing is getting just a little rediculous ain't it?  If
>>Cito was to take his team to victory in the WS you would still replace
>>him because he was not a "good tactical manager"?

>Yep. I consider it entirely likely that the Jays might win a World
>Championship in spite of their manager.

Do you have any evidence to back up this opinion?

>>Would the blue jays have a better record with a good tactical manager
>>than they have had with Gaston?  Hardly.  Gaston has a career mark of
>>350-262 which averages out to about 93 wins a year.  How many managers
>>can squeeze 93 wins a year out of any team year after year?  Not many.
>>There is a lot more involved in bringing a group of very competitive
>>people together to achieve a common goal than simple tactics.  Yeah
>>I wouldn't have White leading off neither but i don't see Gillick banging
>>on my door with a management contract.

>If your players are good enough, you're more likely to hurt them with
>"tactics" than help them. If your players are bad enough, there's little you
>can do to help them. The only cases (IMHO) where a manager can make a

Can you give me an example of a team where "tactics" proved to be detrimental?

>significant differences is with a good, but flawed, team. Take Earl Weaver,
>for instance. Earl was one of the best ever at taking OK players with some
>significant skills (John Lowenstein, John Shelby, Davey Johnson, etc.) and
>putting them into situations where they were most likely to succeed. If you

I think the secret behind Earl Weaver's "genius" might be gleaned if you
look over the list of CY award winners.

>have the '61 Yankees, you don't need tactics. If you have the '62 Mets, they
>won't help. The best managers are the guys who know who the best players on
>their team are in every situation, and manage to get them into those

Don't you think you might be a tad guilty of generalizing here?  Isn't it
likely that the best managers have combinations of skills?  And that each
of any group of best managers would have differing combinations of 
different skills?

>situations. In this regard, Cito doesn't have a clue. Fortunately for him,
>he's had enough good players that it hasn't mattered.

Why do you feel Cito doesn't have a clue?  Can you give me examples of 
situations that you feel Cito mishandled his personnel?

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:00:38 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu:
>In article <1992Sep25.021254.29808@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>
>>And, since OBP is more valuable than SLG, Caminiti's higher OBP wins out.
>
>This is why I quit sabremetrics.  Who says OBP is more important than 
>SLG???!!!  

How would you rather he said it?  How about, "If a team's OBP goes up by 10
points while its SLG stays the same, that'll usually result in more runs for
the team than if the SLG goes up by 10 points and the OBP stays the same."
This much is true.

Now, having said that, you have to be a bit careful about applying it to
individuals, which Nelson wasn't.  However, I think it's a safe bet that,
for a player whose SLG is much higher than his OBP, he'd be better off with
a few more points of OBP than the same number of points of additional SLG.
The only exceptions to the OBP > SLG rule are players like Warren Newson
and Bret Barberie this year, who really need some SLG to go with their OBPs.

>I think Caminiti vs. Pendleton is simple.  Poll the GM's and
>managers of both leagues and ask who they would want on their team if
>either could be had at the same salary...

Except that your "simple" solution doesn't address the right question.  We
want to know who was better this past year, not who is more likely to be
better next year and the year after that.  Of course any GM would rather have
Pendleton; he's established that this level of production is for real, and
Caminiti hasn't.  That doesn't mean that Caminiti hasn't been better this
season.  Any GM you can name would rather have Juan Gonzalez than Dave
Winfield, too, but Winfield has been better this season.


-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Flame Me! Flame Me! (Was TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:16:59 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
In article <1992Oct04.010724.14700@r-node.gts.org>, shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay C
>
>> The best team in the American League finally clinches the title.  Now it's
>> time to kill Oakland in 4 games and go on to the World Series.
>>
>> Because the A's sucks, the Toronto Blue Jays will have little difficulty
>> winning the American League title.
>>

>Obviously, this man has a flame wish...coming off with a statement like "the
>A's sucks" after the incredible year they put together.  I think all of us A's
>fans should keep his email address handy and send him our condolences when the
>Jays fall...:)

Even some of us who aren't A's fans will keep the address....

>>
>> Great game for Cy Young winner Juan Guzman and MVP Joe Carter!!!
>>

Hey if its Guzman and Carter....why can't it be Smiley and Puckett???

>NOT!!!!!!  The Eck could take one or both of those - wait and see...

Ditto...

>Chris (I still can't believe Jose is a Ranger) S.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------
Billy K.                           | ----Dumb Jose quote of the Week----
6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM |    "Its more relaxed here.  Its an
                                   |    atmosphere I can relate to.  In
Puckett '92                        |    Oakland it was always...win, win,
Avg.   Runs   Hits  Rbi            |    win, ....and you can get fed up
325    104    210  110   (yawn...)|    with it."  -J. Canseco
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ken@mizar.tcs.com (Ken Emery)
Subject: Re: Question about lack of a starter
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:37:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.031706.28973@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
>
>	Ok people, here's a question. Last Sunday, Roger Clemens couldn't
>pitch due to a pulled groin muscle. He is announced as the starter and
>is listed in the boxscore after the game with 0 pitches. Since Hesketh
>was recorded as the second Boston pitcher, was it necessary for him to
>get five innings to get a win?

Yes, the pitcher of record would be the one who is pitching at the end 
of the fifth (with a lead that is never lost) or the one who is pitching 
when the lead is taken (as in after the fifth) therefore a pitcher can 
get the win if he pitches the last out of the fifth with his team leading 
and they never lose the lead.

bye,
ken emery
internet: ken@tcs.com
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Harold Seymour Dies
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:18:37 GMT
Organization: Boo!


 

Harold Seymour, perhaps the greatest of all baseball historians, died
on Saturday in Keene, NH, where he had lived since 1985.  He was 82.
Seymour was a Brooklyn Dodger bat boy in the 1920s, and played baseball
at both the high school and college levels.  He was not good enough to
make a career out of baseball, though, so he ended up pursuing his love
of baseball in a scholarly way instead.  He received his doctorate in  
1956 from Cornell with what was probably the first dissertation devoted to
baseball.  

Seymour is best known for his three volumes of baseball history - "Baseball:
The Early Years," "Baseball: The Golden Age," and "Baseball: The People's
Game."  At the time of his death he was working on the fourth volume and
as a consultant on Ken Burns' upcoming PBS series on baseball.  Seymour's
research helped to demolish the myth of the birth of baseball in Cooperstown
and advanced the now-accepted view that baseball was developed in Manhattan
and Brooklyn.

Information taken from the New York Times.

Greg 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@moore.com (Paul Maclauchlan)
Subject: Re: Season Ticket Help
Organization: Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto ON, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 18:43:12 GMT

Brian Brakke (bwb00@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM) wrote:
: 
: We have 4 primary owners for 4 seats.  We are looking at some form of lottery
: to distribute the 80 home games among the partners. (The primary folks get
: the 4 opening day seats.)  
: 
: How do others handle this???

When the tickets come in each year, we all get together at someone's
office and draw cards.  High card picks first from all available games.
Each person picks a game, then we reverse the draft order for the
second round.  Each round is picked in the opposite order of the previous
round.  Everyone is obligated to pick a game in each round... this is
very important in the early days of an expansion team!

Each pick is for both tickets for that game.  You may wish to split each
game into pairs, or go for all four each day.  We always vote on any
suggested changes.  We also draw cards for any promotional bumpf the team
happens to send.

We had a special draw for *each* ticket for the first SkyDome game.  The
same for the All Star game.

For playoffs/world series, we each rank all the games in order.  Cards are
drawn and the tickets are assigned as selected.  We usually do this one
over the phone.

Email if you have any questions.

--
-- 
.../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
paul@moore.com   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"Just sittin' back tryin' to recapture a little of the glory of,
 But time slips away and leaves you nothin', mister, but boring stories of...
 Glory Days."/BS'84
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Didi Seven Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:00:29 GMT
Organization: Lance Blankenship Appreciation Society (BB Division)

Salty writes:

>   Yeah, that is what I'm saying (almost, but they have too much talent
>   to be that bad). The Brewers, as a team are hitting .24 points higher
>   than the Sox. You can attribute at least .15 of those points to the
>   running game. 

Oh really?  How do you figure this number out?  I'd LOVE to hear your
explanation of that.

>   What is Brett Butler, about a .280 hitter? You take away his speed and
>   he's a .240 hitter. Take away his 10 bunt singles and 10 infield hits
>   a year that he gets and his average goes way down. Every single Brewer
>   hitter has benefitted greatly from the success of the running game. It
>   doesn't matter who's on base (Milwaukee has 11 guys with 10 or more
>   steals), whoever is at the plate is bound to get more fastballs and less
>   attention from the pitcher because that pitcher is worried about the
>   runner.

What does Milwaukee hit with runners on base?  Doesn't the ENTIRE
LEAGUE hit better with runners on?

>   I'm not talking out of my ass. Although a 20 game difference might be
>   a stretch, 15 definitely would not be.  

Salty, PLEASE trust us on this one.  A team of Rickey Hendersons in
his prime MIGHT get 20 games a year on baserunning.  Anything short of
that, and I'm afraid you're just reaching a bit.

-- 
* Gary Huckabay * "We need MORE people in the league.  8 isn't going to *
* "Gurgle. Eep."*  cut it.  It's a blast.  Why would someone NOT want   *
* "Acck.  Unh." *  to play?" "Perhaps because you and Chu always pull   *
* "Jose. Igg."  * rabbits out of your hat at the draft." "Ha.  Fear."   *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU
Subject: Re: Astros
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:14:00 GMT

In article <BvA143.5sM@rice.edu>
tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
 
>
>What does anyone think of their chances next season?  It looks like they may
>even have a chance to contend, especially if Atlanta moves to the East.
>(Of course, they may also be lucky this year... does anyone have their stats
>in 1 run games (the surest way to gauge how lucky a team is overall)
 
I do not know the exact figure, but they do have a winning percentage in
1-run games. I think it is something like every two-out-of-three. As for
extra innings, I heard Milo Hamilton say that they are 15-5 in those games.
As one who seen them play several times this year, I do not think they are
lucky, just playing good ball. Going 12-14 on that long road trip when
most thought it would be a death march sure lit a fire in their bellies.
They are 28-16 since getting swept in San Diego during that trip (as of
Sunday). They have an outside shot of going .500 which many thought was
not possible at the begining of the year. Granted, they will have to go
5-1 in their last 6 games to achieve this but on any event, it has been
a good season for them.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Subject: Re: Cy Young?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.152408.13146@cs.rose-hulman.edu>, rileyrm@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu writes...
>Are you concerned with the National League or the American league?
>The national league has to be Tom Glavine without a doubt. 

	Take a look at the last month.  Maddux should easily win the Cy
at this point.  He's got better stats than Glavine in almost all of the 
major categories.  Except the utterly worthless Wins category, and he's only
one behind Glavine in that category at that point.

>No other pitcher has excelled the way he has in the national league.
>The american league would probably have to be Roger Clemens again.  Same  
>story.

	Rocket isn't going to pitch any more this year, and I think this may
kill his chances of winning another Cy.  At this point, Rocket and Mussina have
very similar numbers.  Given the number of voters who will split between these
two, McDowell, Brown, and maybe Appier, I think the Cy will (deservedly, IMHO)
 go to Eckersley.  I refuse to even mention a certain Toronto pitcher who will
receive an incredible number of underserved votes... (And I'm not talking about
Guzman, either... :-))

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce 'Dump Billy!' Hasch      hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu   Go O's in '93!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Cy Young?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:00:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.152408.13146@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rileyrm@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu writes:
>In <25670@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat) writes:
>> Just as the title line says.....Who should win the Cy Young

>Are you concerned with the National League or the American league?
>The national league has to be Tom Glavine without a doubt.  No other  
>pitcher has excelled the way he has in the national league.

No, but some, like Greg Maddux, have excelled more.

Glavine has a 2.87 ERA in Atlanta.  That's excellent.
But Maddux has a 2.26 ERA in Wrigley.  That's phenomenal.

Tewksberry deserves consideration, but his 2.19 ERA in St.Louis isn't
nearly as impressive as Maddux's.

There are a couple of other's with cases, though not convincing ones:

Dennis Martinez (2.47 ERA)
Curt Schilling (2.35) AARGH!!
Greg Swindell (2.61 in what has become a huge hitters park)
Jose Rijo (2.56) 
Doug Drabek (2.72)
Mike Morgan (2.61)
John Smoltz (2.89)

All in all, though, Greg Maddux has to get the Cy.

>The american league would probably have to be Roger Clemens again.  Same  
>story.

I have a harder time arguing with this, but given Clemens' recent
struggles and being an Os fan, I'd say Mike Mussina.

>Question:  if Clemens wins, won't that give him more Cys than any other  
>pitcher in history?

I believe it ties him with Seaver for the most (4) in history.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Orioles 1993 World Series Champions
niepornt@phoenix.    | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
   princeton.edu     | Roland Hemond: SIGN BARRY BONDS!!!!!!!!
Vote Clinton/Gore '92.   Four more months!
From: ps3g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick Jason Soo Hoo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: ack, help me...
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:57:33 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


I haven't been following baseball for the past several weeks now, and
today I looked in the paper and saw several shocking (!) things.  Cone
was listed as a "former Met" -- he's in Toronto now?  HowTF did that
happen?  Who did the Mets get in return?  (If they got anything less
than Alomar, I think I'm gonna cry...)  Also, Canseco is in Texas and
Sierra is in Oakland?  Can someone tell me the specifics of this?

thanks,

pat
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball