From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Legal Questions
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:05:36 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep8.023517.7334@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
>From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
>Subject: Re: Legal Questions
>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:35:17 GMT


>rw>In article <1992Sep2.003321.8632@access.digex.com> roger@access.digex.com (Roger Williams) writes:
>cl>chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

>cl>If it is a person at conception, do we charge the woman with involuntary
>cl>manslaughter if it fails to implant?  Just for your information, about 1/3
>cl>of all products of conception fail to implant and get washed out during
>cl>menstration. 

>rw>Do we charge mothers and fathers with involuntary manslaughter if their
>rw>children die from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome?  Of course not and there
>rw>is no reason to bring charges against a mother whose embryo failed to
>rw>implant.  A charge of involuntary manslaughter requires not merely a lack
>rw>of ordinary care but a wanton and reckless disregard for the life of the
>rw>victim.  In addition, the prosecution would have to prove that the death
>rw>of the embryo resulted from the negligent act or failure to act on the
>rw>part of the mother rather than from natural causes.

>cl> Just a little reality check here...

>rw>Glad to provide it.  Now can we put this strawman to rest once and for
>rw>all?

>Wait, I don't think it is beddy by time just yet for this argument.
>How about if you had reason to believe the zygote failed to implant 
>through some negligence of the womans?  Say she had coitus sex and 
>then went out and ran a marathon.  Strenuous exercise can contribute
>to both a failure to implant and even to a miscarriage.  How about she
>goes out within a week or two after coitus sex and gets roaring drunk.
>This can also lead to the death of the zygote/embryo.  It would seem
>that if person hood is at conception, these cases would at least need
>to be investigated.  They both seem to fall under the heading of a
>wanton and reckless disregard for the life of the victim.  If a 
>woman's career could lead to the death of the zygote or embryo and
>she is aware that it could, wouldn't that be reckless disregard?
> 
>cl>Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>

>rw>Roger Williams

>Dan King

Well then, why not leave each abortion case to ride on its own merits, and 
follow the same procedure as we do now for allegations of manslaughter in 
the case of a woman who has an abortion?  Here's how it would work. If it 
were commonly agreed that some abortions involved "wonton and reckless 
disregard for the victim", just as some homicides are, why not leave it up 
to the courts to decide quilt in the cases brought before them?  So, for 
example, a woman to aborts a fetus in the third trimester in order to avoid 
having to postpone a trip to Europe [prima facia criminal act?] could be 
charged with "wonton and reckless disregard for the victim", and charged 
accordingly.  If there are clear cases of unjustified [criminal] abortions, 
then they of course should be prosecuted; on the other hand, since probably 
the vast majority are not, or need not be, we ought to let the local and 
state courts decide each case on a case by case basis.

This solution would seem to have the advantage of preventing the moral 
beliefs of one group [pro-lifers] or even the majority from being imposed on 
the rest of society in the form of coercive law. It would prevent any 
adjustment to the constitution or federal law.  The suggestion, of course, 
stands or falls on whether it is agreed that abortions can sometimes, under 
some circumstances, be criminal.  I'm not a lawyer and I can't properly 
detail or assess this proposal adequately, but I hope this isn't too naif a 
suggestion. 
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Kenny Bell                          *        Welcome to Mind Wars
Ericsson Network Systems, Inc       *        ANTHEM BBS 386-7907
P.O. Box 833875                     *        Severity with oneself is heroism.
Richardson, TX 75083-3875           *        --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 1943)
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