HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 92 12:26:53 CST
From:         Bartholomew <DANW@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: almost live steel.
Newsgroups:   rec.org.sca

Greetings,


  Several valid points against using live steel have been raised.
A couple more are these

At a demo it is frequently difficult (if not impossible) to control
the crowd.  If someone gets bopped in the head with rattan (accidently)
they will have a headache (at worse a concussion).  If they get bopped
on the head with live steel they would be extremely lucky to get away
with only a headache.

As a former chirurgeon I would not support useing live steel at demos
for any reason other than showing what real swords/axes/spears looked
like.

I think the idea about inviting fighters from neighboring groups
would be the best way to "increase" the interest level.

Bartholomew Landover  GDH
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Aragonese Fealty ?
From: pols055@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:30:20 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Greetings from Southron Gaard,

a friend of mine asked me to make this request of the Rialto,

Some time ago someone was using as a sig a oath of fealty which I think may
have been from Aragon. It went something like 'we who are no better than you
swear to you who are no better than us ...". If anyone can remember the full
quotation and its source I would be most appreciative of having it so that I
can pass it on to her.

My thanks, in anticipation,

Eleonora van den Bogaerde, Southron Gaard, Caid.
Simone Hindin, Christchurch, New Zealand.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: lefty fighters
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 14:43:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <9208290031.AA19952@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
>
>Carolus writes, regarding shots to the groin:
>
>>Most fighters don't like to use it out here, but many lefty fighters
>>are proficient.
>
>Hey, waittaminute....let's not give the wrong impression out there.
>Lefty fighters don't intentionally _practice_ groin shots (not so far
>as I know) but almost _any_ regular shot they throw to the leg has the
>potential of hitting the groin with even a slight change of angle.
>Why, to suggest that lefties are _deliberately_ practicing groin shots
>is nothing short of sinister....;-)

No no no no...The actual target of the "J-stroke" is supposedly
the inner thigh. That is what I was talking about *NOT* shots 
at the groin, but "J-strokes". Lefties tend to be proficient
at "J-strokes" ( a kind of underhanded wrap around stroke to the
inside of the leg, that loops *under* the shield and rises into
the target), because it is much easier for them to get around
the shield with this technique.

Righties do it to lefties as well, but we righties don't get
nearly as much practice fighting lefties, as you lefties get
against us righties.

Ever watch two lefties fight each other? Usually *very*
awkward...

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov)
Subject: Worldcon
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:58:01 GMT

Unto all who read these words, greetings
from Yaakov.
Does anyone know if there will be an SCA
demo at Wordlcon this year?  I am not
planning to bring garb or armor/rattan unless
I hear a definitie yes.
Even if there isn't a demo, any chance of another
Rialto get together?
In Service,
Yaakov
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Clueless Classes
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:24:48

 WH> How about one, simple question:

 WH>  What qualifies you to teach this class?

 WH>  --Hal
Yeah!  I like it!  That lets in the folks Who Know What They're Talking 
 About, but have no SCA credentials, and lets the Classes Autocrat know 
 where to focus their attention on "further inquiries" to (perhaps) 
 establish better credentials or simply decline the class.
     Gwenllian

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: wang!ailanth!ailsa@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Programming/eyeglasses
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:46:52 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:

> Greetings from Godfrey!
>
> (Sorry for replying to the Rialto, but I missed the original message, and
> the original sender's address isn't in the message...)
>
> Tadhg writes:
> >      Eadred Aethellystan wrote:
> >                                                 [...] I need ask only one
> >      question: how old were any of you other programmers when you were
> >      first fitted with glasses?

i lefgt all the attributions in just so as not to lose the one that BELONGED
in...

i was first fitted for glasses when i was in third grade, and first began
messing with computers in tenth grade.  no correlation.  it's the correlation
between glasses and BOOKWORMISHNESS that you shoudl be checking!

                                               -ailsa
                                                Walburga's eyes, in concept,
                                                are fine, but she has to make
                                                do with a rather flawed horse

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     wang!ailanth!ails@ulowell.ulowell.edu         ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject:  Medieval Brewing Tidbit 
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:05:58 GMT

Greetings unto the good folk of the Rialto from Balderik!

While touring the Trondelag folk museum in Trondheim
Norway, we had the pleasure of having a very friendly and
informative guide all to ourselves (it was a weekday and
it was raining).  During the tour, we asked about the
large, beautifully painted, and ubiquitous wooden bowls.
She informed us that they were for drinking beer.  Naturally,
the conversation then revolved around beer and brewing for
some time.  During the conversation, the guide revealed the
following interesting bit of trivia.  Although this hardly
constitutes documentation, our guide spoke with an authority
and familiarity with the subject matter that leads me to
believe that the information is essentially accurate: 

In 1370, a law was passed that required a farmer with six
or more cows (ie. who was reasonably well off) to brew
beer at least twice a year - for his own household and for
the surrounding, smaller farmsteads.  The alternative was
to pay a fee to the church.  The rational given by the
guide was that the authorities recognized the health benefits
of ale, and wanted to ensure that households that could not
afford (ie. were not equipped) to brew would be adequately 
supplied.

Would that modern governments were so concerned for our welfare!

Wassail!

Balderik (who, condemned for so long to tread the pathless wastes,
          has returned from an all too brief sojourn in his spiritual
          homeland, having bathed his blistered feet in sacred waters)
From: conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Weaving books (was Re: ancient kilt; fabric width)
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:17:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5088
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Aug26.115327.6581@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander)) writes:
 
>Could someone possibly recommend a book for those of us who are 
>interested in learning more about period fabrics, but not necessarily 
>in becoming spinners and/or weavers, that would (among other things) 
>provide definitions of such terms as: twill, herringbone, broken 
>diamond, warp-weighted loom, harness, shed, four shaft twill, shed 
>stick, tabby, etc?  I know what some of these terms mean, but am 
>quite frankly lost in this discussion, and would like not to be.


A book which explains everything you ask about in clear terms (except it
may not discuss a warp-weighted loom) is "Learning to Weave with Debbie
Redding", by Debbie (Redding) Chandler.  It is a large-format spiral-bound
paperback.

It doesn't discuss period fabrics per se, but all the definitions you
asked for above, plus many others, are in this book.  I would guess
that scholarly books on period fabrics may or may not provide
some of those definitions, but if you're interested in understanding
all of the terms above it would be a good idea to get a basic weaving
book like the one I cited above.

Another book, perhaps an equally good or even better choice, would be "The
Weaving, Spinning, and Dyeing Book" by (if I remember correctly) Rachael
Brown.  It's just as exhaustive as its title, and amazingly enough does a
very good job covering A LOT of ground.  I would be suprised *not* to see
an illustration of a warp-weighted loom there.

Neither book may explain a broken diamond twill specifically, but a book
on 4-shaft weave structures might.  (Ilaine, is this some sort of rosepath
or birdseye weave?)

Finally, to all fiber-people out there:
Like Alexander, I also would like to see references of books specifically
about Period fabrics.  Any recommendations out there?


Regards,
Konstanza von Brunnenburg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: awards & recognition
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:08:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep02.181645.12360@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:

>For me, part of the obligation of
>peerage is to be identifiably a peer.  That choice is not for everyone, but
>I could never be a "stealth peer"; it would make it impossible for me to do
>fulfill some of the duties that were laid on me when I received my peerage.

It is ironic that you mention this factor in a post that directly followed
mention of Christopher Stasheff's _Escape Velocity_.  The book has a character
name of Charles T. Barman who is dedicated to the principle of informal
education -- that education is best imparted without the student's knowledge.

The institution which employs me is dedicated to the same principle -- that
a student's educational programme must include both formal education in the
classroom and informal education through campus groups and the student union.
No doubt the SCA similarly benefits from teachers whose teaching and qualifi-
cations are obvious, and those whose teaching and qualifications are kept
quiet.

Aryk Nusbacher

The opinions set out above do indeed represent the opinions and philosophy of
Hart House.

From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: almost live steel.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:54:28

 A> Berwynn Aethelbryght (mka Aboz the Untidy) writes:
>One of our fighters, (the short one) has suggested that one reason we
>don't get many people to try fighting is that it 
>doesn't look real enough.
 A>  
 A> The SCA has been sucessfully recruiting with rattan demos for over 
 A> twenty-five years.  I humbly suggest that if your fighters' demos 
 A> are not attracting new people, the problem is with your fighters,
 A> not their rattan.  Seriously:  give it time.  Your fighters will 
 A> get better, and you will eventually have three or four decent 
I would also suggest that you add a bit of "choreography" to your SCA 
 rattan fighting to make it more "watchable".  You can add noise to 
 your demo fights, rather than steel.  Salute each other with shield- 
 slaps!  HIT that shield during the fight!  It's bad practice for the 
 tourney field, but it attracts attention in a demo.  Also, agree to 
 rhinohide.  What, you say, RHINOHIDE???? Yes.  The average SCA fight, 
 particularly with less skilled fighters, is too short to attract the 
 average mundane.  Draw it out. (Let the other guy know).  Don't die 
 to anything but a god-awful-OBVIOUS shot.  That'll help make it look 
 more "attractive".
     Just a few suggestions.  Needless to say, don't take *either* of 
 these habits onto the tourney or war field.
         Gwenllian (who's actually writing to Aboz....)

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DICKSNR@qucdn.queensu.ca (Heather Fraser)
Subject: Beginning cardweaving source
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:22:00 GMT

Greetings from Sarra Graeham, before she sinks into another exciting year
of theological reflection (and a distinct dearth of free time), courtesy
of Lord Angus:

Like Elizabeth Bradewode (sp?), I too have decided to take up card weaving
this summer.  Now that I have finished my first weaving, I want to recom-
mend the book that I have been working from.

Crockett, Candace.  _Card Weaving._  Rev. ed.  Loveland, Colorado:  Inter-
     weave Press Inc., 1991.  141 pp.  ISBN 0-934026-61-0.

It's not even so much a book as a kit.  The book comes in a boxed set with
two dozen cards, and other than yarn, that's all you really need to begin.
(We've had trouble getting cards up here, so I confess I originally bought
the set for the cards.)  There is a chapter of historical introduction,
with quite a number of dated black-and-white photos spanning from ancient
Egypt to this century, as well as several pictures of historical tablet
looms.  The chapter which tells you how to do your first weaving is as
crystal clear as any how-to book I have ever had the pleasure to read,
with line drawings that make things still more obvious.  Then, at the end
of that chapter, she has a list of mistakes beginning weavers make, and
how to correct them.

Further chapters cover different threadings, creating your own patterns,
moving cards independently of the pack for more complex patterns, double
faced weaving, finishing, and gives many patterns.  I doubt many of these
patterns are medieval, but that isn't what the book is claiming; rather
this is a book to get you started on the basics so you can understand more
advanced books!  Last, she has a list of card weaving suppliers, and a
selected bibleography.  It seems that Peter Collingwood is one of her
teachers/resources.

I special ordered this book at my local bookstore, and it came in at $27
CAN; I expect it would be a fair bit cheaper in the US.

     Sarra Graeham, Canton of Greyfells    |  Heather Fraser
     Barony of the Skraeling Althing       |  Kingston, Ontario, CANADA
     Principality of Ealdormere, Midrealm  |  c/o dicksnr@qucdn.queenu.ca

P.S. I wasn't paying enough attention when Elizabeth made her post.  Is
     there a really aces book out there with historical patterns in it
     that a beginner like me could understand and a broke Canadian like
     me could get my hands on (library books are great)?  Please E-mail,
     as my time to read Rialtos right now is short.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nadine@stat.tamu.edu (Nadine Miller)
Subject: WANTED: Telephone Number for Management of Texas Renaissance Festival
Keywords: Texas, Renaissance Festival
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:17:34 GMT

Several of my friends are very serious (and good) amateur jugglers who
are hoping to audition for the Texas RenFair.  I realize it may be too
late for this season, but they want to go ahead and get in contact with
the mngmt. for next season, too.  So, if you have a telephone number and
address (or either), I would appreciate an e-mail message, as I am not a 
consistent reader of this newsgroup.

Thanks a bunch!
=Nadine=
*only apparently mundane*
nadine@stat.tamu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: davel@news.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Liebreich)
Subject: Re: What Heraldry?
Summary: dopey dwarf
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:58:31 GMT

Greetings unto the Rialto from David Waxthorn!

In a previous missive, Dur writes:
[Ioseph writes]
>> 
>>                                                 -Ioseph of Locksley
>>                                         who is a Loathsome Baron, too
>>                                         and who is Grumpy
>
>Fine set of dwarves we make, Nasty (me), Grumpy (you), Dumpy (Silver)...so 
>who's Dopey?

I'll lay claim to "dopey."  "Sleazy," however, is up for grabs (isn't that
always the case, though).

-David

=========================================================================
David Waxthorn                                  David Liebreich
Principality of the Mists                       NASA Ames Research Center
Laurel Kingdom of the West                      Moffett Field, CA

 "The opinions expressed above are, in fact, those of my liege-lord"
                           doo dah doo dah
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Jeffrey.L.Singman@um.cc.umich.EDU
Subject: Elizabethan Handbook
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:01:42 GMT

  Since Nicholas van Leyden has chosen to send his comments on the Elizabethan
Handbook to the Net, I feel I ought to reply throught the same medium.  As he
himself states, his remarks are not based on a very thorough reading.  The
Introduction specifically states that the authors by no means feel that the
text is the last word on the subject.  We are, in fact, the first people to
have undertaken the rather Herculean task of trying to gather between two 
covers sufficient information to allow an individual to function as a more or
less creditable Elizabethan.  It has been our hope from the outset that the
publication of the Handbook will serve to drive the various experts out of the
woodwork so that over the course of years it will be possible to produce a
revised edition which will clean up the imperfections of the original.  I 
most heartily encourage Mynherr to contribute his considerable costuming
expertise to this worthy effort.
In the meantime, I stand by the quality of the Elizabethan Handbook:  I did 
my PhD in Medieval Studies, and would not have put my name to the document
unless I felt I could be proud of it.  For anyone interested in representing
an Elizabethan person, this still remains the single most useful book you
can own.
		Dr. Jeffrey L. Singman, Middle English Dictionary, University of Michigan
		(Editor of the *Elizabethan Handbook*)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: lefty fighters
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:31:26 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Carolus writes, regarding shots to the groin:

>Most fighters don't like to use it out here, but many lefty fighters
>are proficient.

Hey, waittaminute....let's not give the wrong impression out there.
Lefty fighters don't intentionally _practice_ groin shots (not so far
as I know) but almost _any_ regular shot they throw to the leg has the
potential of hitting the groin with even a slight change of angle.
Why, to suggest that lefties are _deliberately_ practicing groin shots
is nothing short of sinister....;-)

BTW, the situation is symmetric: a right handed fighter throwing a leg
shot against a lefty also has a fairly good chance of hitting the
latter's groin.  

Fujimoto the Left Handed
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: bunny round and other weird words
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:55:51 GMT

In article <8338@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee J
ohnstone) writes:
>My housemate is doing an English essay on jargon in sport, so wants
>to look at fighters jargon in the SCA.
>He would like to know about the derivation of particular words, and
>whther they are local or SCA wide.
>
>For example, "Stickjock" evolved from "jock" or athelete (from jockstrap)
>and "hot stick" from stickjock.

The Middle uses this. It is a derogatory term(in most persons' minds) for
someone who does nothing but fights.

>Anyone know about the shield called a"bunny round"?

Never heard of that one.

>Why is the two sword style called "Florentine" in the West?

It is derived from the "florentine" style of dueling with rapier an dagger, and
the name was attached to all two weapons styles.

>                                                              Any other
>styles have odd names?

How about "port-a-fort" for a _large_ shield.

"Iron chicken" is a defencive stance where the sword hand is above the head(tip
down crossing the top of the shield) to protect the head.

>                        Does your area use the term "slot shot" and if
>so, for what?

A "slot shot" is a blow which land after going through a small gap(or slot) in
the opponent's defence. A gentle who uses a lot of "slot shots" is doing "slot
work".

>In Lochac we have the "golf shot" which is an underhand swing in the
>general area of the victim's goolies.  I think the term is local, anyone
>else use it?

Never heard the term, but we try not to swing at the "victim's goolies".

>All anecdotes, examples of jargon, explanations etc. gratefully received
>by post or email.

I hope mine have helped.

otto
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Land Allotment
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:29:48 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <714910190.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor) writeth:
>
> PM> It's *not* fair to tell the folks who bought a
> PM> big pavilion a couple of years ago, at major expense, 
> PM> that now they have to 
> PM> go back to the little coleman dome tent to come to Pennsic, particularly
> PM> if Pennsic is the only real SCA/Camping vacation they have all year.
>
>Let them form an encampment with some people who have small tents.
>
	what about Enchanted Ground which is all period tents of various
sizes? From where I stand, it's what the SCA should be striving for, not
brushed aside for being space-hogs. I'm not sure what game you're playing, 
I'm into historical recreation. Viking tents are fine for viking personas,
but it's not a viable solution for an Elizabethan.
							-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   | 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca