From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:52:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>>
>>	Stone dead is rather similar to bullet dead - inciting is not
>>known to be a cause for an attempted murder.
>>
>Exactly HOW MANY Israeli's have been killed by a rock's being hurled
>at them???  I can tell you that more the 1000 Palestinians have
>ben killed since the Intifada.

Approximately 100 Jews have been killed in the Intifada.  Of the roughly
1200 Palestinians killed in the intifada, roughly 40-45% have been
killed by fellow Palestinians, and in the last two years, the number of
Palestinians killed for political reasons by other Palestinians
outnumbers the number killed by the IDF.

>>	Anyone hit a direct hit by such a stone [and I assume we all
>>seen them on TV]  is rather deadly.  The stone throwers have attempted
>
>Are we talking hand held rocks (the variety that are thrown) or
>boulders dropped over this wall (which there were none...)

The rocks I remember from the video looked to be 2-5 inches in diameter.
That still means a rock weighing 1-3 pounds (you're talking about
something the size of a baseball or softball but several times as
dense).  These thrown as hard as possible over a wall, and having a
20-30m drop down to the plaza in front of the wailing wall.  Considering
that fastballs which hit on the head can cause rather severe injuries,
and that these rocks are both heavier and have 20-30 meters of height,
that's a significant danger.  Not as significant as a bullet, but pretty
significant nevertheless.

>>murder and if the only way to stop them is by shooting ... I donno why
>
>So the next time my friend's little brat throws a rock (or one of his
>little toy METAL cars) at me, I will tell her that COMMON SENSE says
>I can defend myself with an UZI to take care of her son...
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>	Anwar, noone said that the soldiers were worshipers - I am not
>>sure anyone of us knows even what is the religion of the soldier
>>[there are alot of Druez in the Border Guard].  On the other hand
>>Sandra did prefer to call them worshipers rather then
>>stone-thorwers-at-innocent-wall-prayers - though I respect most of
>
>They were WORSHIPPERS who arrived for prayers, when they came out there
>was a large band of Israelis passing out leaflets and chanting to 
>destroy the Mosque.  It started with yelling...I don't even know about
>rocks.  But they were yelling, police came in, holed the Muslims up 
>above in the courtyard, and all hell broke loose.  More than 20 Muslims
>were killed.  NO Israeli's were killed by any rocks or anything else
>on that day.

This is patently not true, as has been mentioned several times on this
net.  The waqf knew that the Temple Mount Faithful, the Jewish group in
question, had applied for a permit to march on al-Aqsa that day, and had
issued a leaflet asking Muslims to come to defend the mosque (by the
way, in my view this was a *very* justifiable first action).  However,
they also knew that the permit had been expressly denied, and *before*
any rock-throwing started, they were told (and probably could have seen
if they had looked) that the TMF had been physically stopped by IDF from
approaching al-Aqsa.  In fact, the TMF never reached al-Aqsa.  Further,
as you've been told, the TMF was *not* a large band - they number a few
dozen (please see the official investigation report), compared to
approximately 3000 Muslims who had responded to the waqf's leaflet that
day.  Finally, the death toll was 17, last I heard, not over 20.

Not that the last makes it significantly less ghastly - it doesn't.  

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast