HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Big new landfill next to J-Tree?
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:41:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

My roomate showed me a photocopy of a recent article (the Nov/Dec. issue
of an unknown magazine) which describes a large landfill which is likely
to be constructed just outside the boundaries of Joshua Tree.  The article
suggested that the landfill will be visible from parts of the monument,
that trash and dust may blow from the landfill to the monument, and that
the landfill will be detrimental to the desert tortoise, mainly because it
will attract ravens (?) which feed on the tortoises.

I will post some more details when I have a copy in front of me, including
the address of someone to complain to if appropriate.  But I'd appreciate
it if anyone more familiar with the project could give some information
as well.  The article made it sound like a large fraction of LA's garbage
was headed for the site, so I would hope some others have heard about it.

Eric Hirst
eric@u.washington.edu
(Yes, I produce garbage too.)
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 15:42:00 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan11.173519@roper.mc.ti.com>,
a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph) writes:
>
>I always define adventure as tackling those experiences which I have prepared
>for.  Excitment is those experiences I have not prepared for.  While climbing I
>avoid excitement like the plague!!
>--
I think it was Edmund Hilary who defined adventure as some other
poor bastard having a rough time.  Or words to that effect. ;-/

Xref: sparky rec.climbing:5131 rec.backcountry:10014
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Big new landfill next to J-Tree?
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:29:36 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <eric.726372688@milton> eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
>OK, here's the article I mentioned in a previous rec.climbing post (I'm
>putting on rec.backcountry now as well).  It appears to be from a Sierra
>Club or Wilderness Society type publication, dated November/December, but
>again I don't know the exact source and would appreciate if somebody could
>fill that in.  I would also appreciate comments from others more familiar
>with the project.
>
>**************************************************************************
>GIANT LANDFILL PLANNED NEAR JOSHUA TREE
>
 
>Mine Reclamation Corporation, the company proposing the project, would create
>the landfill at the site of an abandoned mine. Cities and counties in southern
A very large abandoned open-pit mine, not exactly pristine wilderness.
 
>"We keep calling it a giant experiment," said Bob Moon, Joshua Tree's
>chief of resources management.  According to Moon, there is little scientific
>information on the effects of landfills in places as pristine as the Joshua
>Tree area.  "We don't think they can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that it
>wouldn't have a significant impact on the monument," he said.
Within Joshua Tree there are also many old abandoned mines, several roads,
old ranches (some I believe still occupied), etc.  It is no more pristine 
than much of the surrounding desert area, although it has better protection
for the future even if people continue to inhabit Southern California
despite taxes, regulation, and bad cops.
 
>Noise from the project will be audible in wilderness areas of the park.
>The landfill will be visible from the park, especially as it grows into
>an artificial mountain in the project's later years.
If it is visible from any area frequented by humans, it would be the area
at the extreme southeast portion of the road (if I remember the map
directions correctly).  I have visited that area only once and was 
unable to spot the mine.  Most tourists spend their time at the other
end of the park.
 
As I understand it, there is a widespread opinion that this is the
best site for a major landfill IF one must be created somewhere.  This
does not mean that the specifics of the existing proposal are optimal,
or that other means of reducing waste are superfluous, but it does
mean kneejerk opposition may be misplaced.  Do you know a better site?

	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Arizona Gym
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:21:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: intel corporation



Could Some one Mail or post information on the Pheonix Rock Gym. 
Hours, Directions from I-10 Prices, Phone number.


Thanks in advance 
MichaeL


--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Rootbeer^2 = Beer ?             Were all in it together. 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM (Chris Brown - SunSelect Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: California Mountaineering Club - how sa
Date: 6 Jan 1993 19:56:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: islesboro.east.sun.com

I've got three suggestions:

1. Don't EVER climb with that dog again. In the future, climb only with cats. They are simply better climbers than dogs. It's like, instinctual or something.

2. Before the next trip with this group, suggest they consider a name change. Two possibilities that come to mind are: Desert Dogs Farcing Society or Near Death Experience Explorers.

3. Make a will and name the AAC Access Committee, or some other outdoor/conversation organization, as your beneficiary.

Hope this helps,
CB
From: bliss@adcalc.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Tennessee Wall
Date: 6 Jan 93 05:27:45 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: adcalc.fnal.gov

I'm planning a trip to Georgia next month and thought I might stop at Tennessee
Wall on the way down.  Could some one tell me if any of the routes can be top
roped?  Is there a guide book for the area?

Thanks,

Kevin
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: new topic
Date: 4 Jan 1993 13:26:27 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <5778@gold.gvg.tek.com>,
jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche) writes:
>>Topic: Is climbing becoming overrun with boneheads because it is a very
>>
>>photogenic sport and is also becoming very fashionable, or is it merely
>>expanding in a natural way? (given that a large portion of any society is
>I think it is growing in a somewhat natural way, fueled by the
>invention of the climbing gym.  Of course it's been beat to death on
>
>I think the sport in the US is also being populated with lots of
>posers, wannabees, and lightweights (like me :^)) just because of the
>glamorous thrill seeker image--  Hell, if you are pretending to be
>something, you'd rather pretend to be a daring mountaineer than a
>wimpy badminton ace.
>
If you can remember back to when alpine sking was dominated by
leather, wool and wood you will probably see some parallels (how do
you spell that dam word anyway!?) with course that climbing is
taking.  It's not neccessarilt good or bad as a development -- it's
just change.  Me, I preferred the traditional atmosphere of both
sports but I'm just one person.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: new topic
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 16:47:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1ifl2dINNg9q@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM writes:
>I think people are attracted to climbing for a variety of reasons:
>
>3. For many men, it mitigates the wimpy nature of most modern work in the office, lab and classroom.

There's nothing wimpy about my job.  One look at the wall of punchdown blocks
in our computer room would make the hardest of the hardmen shudder with fear.


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: clissman@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: CORRECT way to clip an extender
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:55:13 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

I have a question about attaching extenders (short tapes) to rock nuts and
similar gear. Most of the books and so on that I've read show the gates of
of the two carabiners facing in opposite directions - one carabiner (the top
one, I think) with the gate away from the rock, and the other with the gate
facing the rock. Occasionally I've read something about turning the lower 
carabiner through 180 degrees after clipping the rope through it. 

Now it seems to me that the obvious way to clip a piece of gear is with both
carabiners ultimately facing with the gate away from the rock, so that there is
no chance of an edge opening the crab, and also it's possible to clip the rope
easily when the crab's back is against the rock. 

Comments and explanations, either to rec.climbing or to CLISSMAN@CCVAX.UCD.IE
would be most welcome.

Thanks a lot
Ciaran Clissmann / Dept Comp Sci/Mountaineering Club / Univ Coll Dublin Ireland
CLISSMAN@CCVAX.UCD.IE
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sex@chopin.udel.edu (Martin Solo Schamis)
Subject: TCU's vs. Friends
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:17:53 GMT

I have been wondering lately, what is the big benefit of friends over
non-spring loaded camming units such as the Lowe Tri-Cam?  If placed
properly, the Tri-cam provides an excellant anchor in parallel sided
or even slightly flaring cracks, and from my experience and be placed in
shallower cracks than a standard friend.
The only drawback that I can see is the lack of a spring to keep tension 
in a very hard rock where the tri-cam may not bite the rock very well and
could very easily slip out.
The reason I ask is that I just recently inherited a full set of tri-cams
and I am planning a trip to the desert this spring.  Everyone I have talked 
to and every reference I have read has been almost solely referring
to friends.  In one instance, (I beleive in the prologue to the
book Desert Rock), the author referred to a tri-cam in a vertical crack,
properly set, as being the most bombproof thing he has ever seen.
Placing the tri-cams on suitably long slings would prevent rotation
of the device, so that should not really be a factor.
I have used both devices quite a bit and have not really found any 
drawbacks to the tri-cam.  The only real benefit of friends is their
ease of use.  A friend can be placed and removed with much greater ease,
but beyond that, what other benefits has anyone seen?

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Martin

sex@brahms.udel.edu
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: new topic
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:28:07 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1993Jan3.181402.6399@desire.wright.edu> lkampf@desire.wright.edu writes:
>top o' the year to all concerned!
>Just thought I'd start things off right with a new topic to get the geeks
>riled.
>Topic: Is climbing becoming overrun with boneheads because it is a very
>
>photogenic sport and is also becoming very fashionable, or is it merely 
>expanding in a natural way? (given that a large portion of any society is 
>composed of boneheads) Also, I think a question of philosophy is inherent
>in this, is man fundamentally good or is man fundamentally evil? (climbers or
>boneheads, or both)
>                  any  bites?
>  

I think it is growing in a somewhat natural way, fueled by the
invention of the climbing gym.  Of course it's been beat to death on
this forum that the indoor climbing wall multiplies the appeal factor
of the sport, since a wall allows the potential climber to try it out
in a controlled, fairly safe environment, with readily available
instruction, and with little equipment required.

I think the sport in the US is also being populated with lots of
posers, wannabees, and lightweights (like me :^)) just because of the
glamorous thrill seeker image--  Hell, if you are pretending to be
something, you'd rather pretend to be a daring mountaineer than a
wimpy badminton ace. 

So, both are true.  Man is fundamentally confused.

Jim

p.s. No criticism of badminton is intended.  It's a great game.
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Sport Climbing
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:55:07 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


In article <1993Jan8.155734.4512@mtu.edu>, cpguenth@next15 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER) writes:
> I would like to here form you sport climbers out there and tell me why  
> sport climbing is good for the sport. 

From what has happened in the past, perhaps the best thing for the overall
range of climbing activities is for sport climbers and gear routers, 
rap-bolters and lead bolters, pink-lycra wearers and green-lycra wearers and
so forth to stop causing a scene in public with these silly "my way is
better that your way" fights. When we get people like Bachar assaulting people
because soloing 5.12 gives him the right of kings to impose his will on the 
world, the general public's opinion of climbers in general goes down. No matter
how screwed up the logic can get, this cannot help with issues like liability
and access. 

Someone in Colorado (Wilford I think) had some bumper stickers made that read
"Sport climbing is niether" (*i* before *e* except after *c* and all that, but
it still *looks* wrong) However, how many 'pure' sport climbers are there
(who have never placed gear, soloed, bouldered or scrambled in the mountains),
or 'pure' traditionalists (who have never clipped a rap-bolt)? - In reality,
most climbers are also `niether'.

Whether it is 'good' for the sport or not, there is enough 'sport climbing' 
going on for it to justify its own existence. No-one will argue that it is
not doing any damage to the 'sport' as a whole, but similarly, previous 
trends have also made their marks. Perhaps we should all just agree that the
most important issue is that we *all* want to continue to climb, and therefore
confront the access situation together, rather than continuing to wave our
dirty laundry at each other.

Ooops, I've gone and done it now,
"Flame shields on max Mr. Sulu"

Bob (Maybe we should classify ourselves: Neither :-)    )
bobs@biocat.ncdmf.usu.edu
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Belaying
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:11:29 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1993Jan5.210537.4039@nstn.ns.ca> sean@Wolf.Ocean.Dal.Ca (Sean Willett) writes:
>There are two hand sequences commonly used in belaying: the "hand slide"
>and the "hand walk". The hand slide involves bring the ropes together,
>holding both ropes in the guiding hand and sliding the brake hand back towards
>the belay device. Assuming a right handed belay, the hand walk involves moving
>the left hand to the braking side (right) of the belay, holding the braking
>rope while the right hand comes off the rope and moves over the left to grab
>the rope closer in.  This presumably is what Ken refers to as "switching hands".

The hand sliding method seems to be a holdover from the days of the
body belay.  This is what's described in _Basic_Rockcraft_, I think.
Holding the ropes together and sliding is/was a fairly natural
technique in a body belay, since the 'locked' position is with the
braking side pulled forward, or preferably crossed over the body.
With a Sticht plate or a figure-8, the locking motion is out and away,
so the ropes parallel method feels to me like you are somewhat
vulnerable to a hard fall when the ropes are held together.  I tend to
lock off a bit before grabbing some more rope, but it varies.

Here's a related question: I find myself holding the brake device a
fair amount with my other hand, to modulate braking.  Is this
considered a no-no?  With devices like a figure-8 or a tuber,
controlling unwanted lockoff is a frequent occurrance.  I guess I'm
still searching for the perfect belay appliance.

Jim
From: clissman@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Snow/Ice courses in Alps in summer ?
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:07:50 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

I'd like to do a course in the Alps this summer, preferably in middle
to late august but can be anytime after june, to sharpen my snow and
ice techniques.I particularly want to do steep snow/ice walls and other
things useful in climbing Big mountains. 
.
Can anyone out there recommend a good centre/national alpine body giving this
kind of course ? I've heard of the UCPA, but know nothing more than the name. 
.
Any comments from you Alp-living people welcome, preferably via E-mail to
CLISSMAN@CCVAX.UCD.IE

Thanks a lot

Ciaran Clissmann, Dept Comp Sci, Uni Coll Dublin, Ireland
CLISSMAN@CCVAX.UCD.IE
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Belaying
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:23:18 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1ikh0pINNqep@bmsrs.usc.edu> degennar@bmsrs.usc.edu (Ray) writes:
>I
>>I guess I'm still searching for the perfect belay appliance.
>
>Try an ATC (bu Black Diamond)

Which were recently recalled by Black Diamond due to burring of the
metal which may cause rope damage during use.

Bruce
From: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: what mits are good?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:26:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: na
Reply-To: wolffie@u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: freerange.pathology.washington.edu

A useful emergency preparation is to carry a couple of those small  
exothermal chemical reaction packets inside your mitt liners (on the outside  
where they won't get accidentally crushed.  If you get into a situation  
where you're having trouble getting your hands warm, you can squeeze them  
and they'll keep your hands warm for a long time.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Sport Climbing
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:52:56 GMT

sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
: 
: Someone in Colorado (Wilford I think) had some bumper stickers made that read
: "Sport climbing is niether" (*i* before *e* except after *c* and all that, but
: it still *looks* wrong)

That's because it *is* wrong...

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: hjg@med.unc.edu (Hillel J. Gitelman)
Subject: norway
Originator: hjg@addor
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:27:09 GMT


I need some help in planning a summer trip to Norway in which I would like
to spend about 5 days or so hiking in the Norwegian mountains. I want
scenic routes with easy to moderate difficulty. I would like to avoid
excessive driving. I have to start from Bergen and am thinking of ending
up in Oslo on my way to Copenhagen. If you have any ideas please send me
electronic mail at hjg@med.unc.edu.
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Belaying
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:56:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0Ew6D.I3s.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1993Jan5.210537.4039@nstn.ns.ca> sean@Wolf.Ocean.Dal.Ca (Sean Willett) writes:
>...  This presumably is what Ken refers to as "switching hands".

Just to clarify:  When taking in rope, I use the following sequence:
Pull in some rope with my right hand; lock off the belay device; grab
the braking side of the rope near the belay device with my left hand;
pull in some rope with my left hand; lock off the belay ... etc.  Thus
I switch from right to left handed braking (typically switching back
to my right hand during pauses).

This is typically faster than other methods (rarely a concern), and
has the advantage of keeping rope/grip in locked off position most of
the time.

It bothers me to watch people teaching belaying who promise that a
sticht plate will hold a truck (arguably true for <1000 pound trucks
held statically) and recommend holding the ropes parallel (guide hand
holding both ropes) much of the time.  I have seen what happens when a
confused beginner fails to quickly lock off the belay! - big blisters
from the rope burns and way apologetic looking face.
From: T.S.Moore@newcastle.ac.uk (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climber Magazines
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:55:24 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.



I tried climbing for the first time last week on an Outward Bound course in Wales and really enjoyed it. I am considering joining the climbing club here at Newcastle University, and was wondering if anyone could name some good climbing magazines for beginners, since I can't find any in the major newsagents around here.

Cheers,

Tim

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Every program has at least one bug and       | Tim Moore                     |
| can be shortened by at least one instruction | CSoc Vice-Pres. Newcastle Uni.|
| -- from which, by induction, one can deduce  |                               |
| that every program can be reduced to one     | email: T.S.Moore@ncl.ac.uk    |
| instruction which doesn't work. (fortune)    | phone: +44-91-276-1800        |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Every program has at least one bug and       | Tim Moore                     |
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Patel)
Subject: Need suggestions on purchasing head-lamps
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:31:04 GMT


    I am interested in purchasing a head-lamp with the
  following characteristics:

  - should fit most of the climbing helmets in the market,
    and should be comfortable enough to wear without a helmet.
  - must run on lithium AND optionally on alkaline batteries,
    with detachable battery pack (so that I may keep the
    batteries warm on a cold night).                                     
  - zoom lens preferred.
  - built-in storage for extra bulb.
  
  Would someone who is familiar with head-lamps for climbing
  provide me with suggestions (trade-offs) on what is available
  in the market to aid my decision making process?

  Thanx in advance.
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:5185 rec.skiing:9440 rec.backcountry:10123