From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: Harley Outperforms ZX11, Film at Eleve
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:51:38 GMT

svoboda@rtsg (David Svoboda) writes:
>In article <1bf3atINNs4c@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>|
>|Assumption 2: they can sell all the sports bikes they can build.
>|Ludicrous.
>
>Well, Eric Buell sells all the sport bikes he can build, and those
>are sorta-Harleys.  Even at $15,000 a peice he sells all he can.  And
>most people I know think they are the neatest thing since sex.

Yeah, but how many spurtbike buyers are in a position to pay $15,000
for sex with a Buell when they can have sex with equally adept Honda
for $9,000.  

This works for cruisers, but would the Harley mystique carry over to
the sportbike buyer to the tune of 6 - 8 thousand?  I'm not exactly
poor, but $15,000 is six times as much as I've paid for any bike I've
ever owned.  How many bikes did Bimota sell last year?

For 15 grand, I think I might be happier with a GSXR750 _and_ a
Sportster!

>What are you worried about?  Do you think that, say, a 
>Harley XCSB Buell-Sport would not sell?  Especially if they put
>some race-oriented technology into the motor, and if they
>brought the cost down to more along the lines of a BT?

Buy the Buell design (how much do you figure he's gonna want?), invest
more money in making it better, invest money in a production facility
and sell the product for less.  In other words, buy out a risky
venture put more money into it and reduce the profit margin.  If I
were Harley, I'd take a long, hard look at something like this before
diving in.

>I think the point is that a profit can be made by increased diversity
>*if* the customer demand is there.  I think it is, for moderate production 
>numbers.  Harleys have something attractive about them, to many people, 
>just for being Harleys.  Combine that with the performance of a modern 
>Italian or Japanese sport bike, and you would have a Japanese Giant Killer.

The current Harley motors cannot be modified to produce the kind of
power the liter class sportbikes or even a hot 750s are makeing
without sacrificing reliability.  A solid, reliable (warrentee-able!)
75 HP could probably be had from a Sportster mill, maybe even 85.
Much above that you could be asking for reliability problems.  People
who modify their own motors have nobody to blame but themselves if
their bike doesn't run perfectly all the time and are alot less
demanding in that respect.  The slightest quirk in an "off the floor"
bike can cost a bundle in recalls and reputation.

The upshot of this is that if Harley wants to build a competetive
sportbike it's going to cost them millions in R&D on top of the cost
of the chassis even if they could buy Buells design.  Add to that the
cost of tooling up a completely new assembly line and you have an
extremely expensive and risky prospect.

Don't get me wrong.  I would love to have a truly sporty Sportster
with 100+ HP and a rock solid chassis, in fact I'm considering
building one of my own if I can scrape up the money.  I just I don't
expect Harley to do it themselves any time soon and I can understand
why.
 ___
| o |  
|/-\|  )V(ark)<                            DoD #400
  |\   markk@tcs.com                       AFM #972
  | \  TCSI Berkeley, CA USA         (510) 649-3781
  (__) 1988 FZR400 \ 1985 ZX900 Ninja \ 1977 RD400D