HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: monster@mbear.apana.org.au (Martin Ozolins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (10.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
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Date: 25 Dec 92 10:20:58 PST
Organization: Bears Incorporated

In article <1992Dec22.155058.20344@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> 
> You're pretty much correct about that, but things are changing.  For example,
> many DOS games now require 386SX and up (they use 32-bit code), and the

I thought it was due to poor programming which needed a faster CPU to cover it up

-- 

Martin Ozolins :Internet monster@mbear.apana.org.au
Victoria       :FIDO 3:633/359.6 AMIGANET 41:300/359.6 TRINET 42:8699/8.6
Australia      :Amiga Programmer, UniSYS 1100/2200 Systems Programmer 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: NO MORE *&#*$(^*& FEMALE BIMBO ADS!!!!!!!!
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:22:36 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1h8ifjINNstn@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett) writes:
>mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec1.214037.27948@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
>
>[stuff about drugs]
>
>>>...if you carry a gun, on the other hand, you're a potential threat 
>>>to anyone who gets in range.
>
>>Same with a baseball bat.  The range is smaller, but still easy to
>>bash a skull with.  Should we ban those too?
>
>Good God!  Now I am getting bored with this thread.  Mike, have you been
>reading this thread at all?  Why do I feel compelled to spell out to so 
>many people why a gun is more dangerous than a baseball bat ?(or a knife
>or an IBM PC)

We'd better get used to the fact that PEOPLE are dangerous.  They can
kill
you with a popsicle stick.  The object is not important.  When there
are humans roaming around intent on preying on others, it's all it
takes.

Which would you rather have to sit beside in a bus... a cop with
a gun, or a maniac with a baseball bat?

Guns are devices which hurl small metal pieces at around 800 miles-per
hour.  They are not evil or bad.  Those are qualities you can attribute
to humans who damage other humans, be it with guns, knives, cars, bats,
whatever.

>Really, can't people think about what they're saying for a moment!
>In fact, I can't make myself do it again (for the umteenth time!)
>if anyone can't think why baseball bats ARE NOT a good comparison
>to a gun, then email me for the

You miss the point.  Guns are not a good place to start when you
want to decrease violence... start with those who commit violence.

>
>"Fact-File:
>   Everything you ever wanted to know about heavy blunt object vs 
>   sharp objects vs projectile weapons;
>   an innocent until proven guilty, totally free and unopressed persons 
>   guide to anti-crime devices"
>
>[more stuff]
>
>Mike, I think this thread is really REALLY wearing thin, if you or anyone
>feels the need to perpetuate it, please send email to me, and we'll
>flame on merrily over the summer (or in your case, winter) break.

Yes, you ARE out of substance in your arguments.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Anu.Kapoor@launchpad.unc.edu (Anu Kapoor)
Subject: Re: CWAN-APPS
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:15:23 GMT

In article <kennys.31rq@terapin.com> kennys@terapin.com (Kenny Sequeira) writes:
>I'm having a hard time understanding the logic of people continuing to 
>mutter, about the need for the Amiga to have high profile productivity 
>software like Word, Excel, 123, and PageMaker to be a successful computer.  
>Personally the Amiga has done very well without these products, which 
>IMHO shows the Amiga does not need these programs to exist as a computer 
>platform.
>

The reason we need high profile applications is for the sole reason of
perception. How the Amiga is percieved is quite important and can
make/break the computer. In a recent byte article they were comparing
workstations. C= declined to participate because they said the amiga is a
multimedia computer. The two categories for testing were desktop
publishing and cad. Every computer there had a version of framemaker and
autocad running on it. Byte mentioned how there were other apllications
that might have been better for the individual platform but they used
those two apps for the comparison. Now tell me what the avg. reader or
person who wanted to buy a dtp/cad workstation would have though if he/she
saw 13 computers with framemaker/autocad and one with Pagestream/GfxCad?
Sure they might compara fine, but it *looks* bad for the amiga and that is
most likely why c= declined to participate. If performance were the only
issue society would be different however perception is important. Once the
amiga is percieved as a good computer, then and only then can we *prove*
it is a better computer.

Cordially,
Anu Kapoor

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: devasoft@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: a MB style flame against IBMs
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 08:29:38 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>Oh, and did I mention disk speed?  They claim some pretty good numbers
>in an absolute speed (even though mostly DOS uses "trask stepping speed"
>instead of xfer speed).  But you have to wait *ages* for programs to
>load!  I load dpaint on my 3000 and *wham* its up there almost
>instantly.  Same for my WP.  Well, on this high-powered 486, we waited
>around 20 seconds for this one graphics program to load, and the program
>didn't even look like it did all *that* much.  (But their floppies are
>way faster than ours - gotta give them that.  And bigger).

Well, if you run Amiga DPaint against IBM DPaint, you should get the same
"*wham* and it's up there" speed comparison.  In fact DPaint loads faster
on my PC then my Amiga.  But then again, it may load slower on someone
else's PC.  What it all comes down to with all the problems you mentioned,
(Slow Windows, etc) is that "your mileage may vary" depending on the 
graphics card, hard drive, etc, etc, etc that your PC (or Amiga) has.

David Alves
Devasoft
devasoft@cup.portal.com
From: jshearer@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Jeff Shearer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: a MB style flame against IBMs
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:14:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: serval.1992Dec23.091447.26049
Organization: Washington State University Tri-Cities, Richland

In article <1992Dec23.055634.20899@samba.oit.unc.edu> John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver) writes:
>WARNING: you might want to bail out now and skip all this.  Its just a
>meaningless tirade against IBMS after what I went through recently.  So
>if you keep reading afte this warning, don't complain to me, man.

Not complaining, just clarifying a few things.

>Here we go...
>ARexx - they don't have anything even close over there - not even under
>OS/2, as far as I know.  IBM and the Clones need to get their collective

Just FYI, ARexx is a port of Rexx, a language designed by IBM.  Rexx is a
part of OS/2, but I'm not sure how much it is used.

>The DOS command line, by default, doens't let you acces anything except
>the *one* previous command, and even they you can only backspace to
>correct things.  They can fix this, they claimed, but jeez, even the
>AmigaDos CLI, as awful as it is, lets you recall and edit lots of
>previous commands.  Can't IBM with its billions of dollars do what CBM

Don't confuse the Shell with the CLI, big difference.

- Jeff
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.toronto.edu (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:43:59 GMT

In article <1hteqfINN27n@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

[ ]
>
>	Depends on what you are doing with it.  It certainly doesn't have poor
>   graphics and sound to me.  Why are PC users misguided by the way?

VGA is ok, not great. There is no sound standard on the PC. Basically the
closest thing you'll get is the SB, not even the SB-Pro, SB-16, etc...
 
As for the PC world in general, it has led most people to believe that 
spreadsheets, wordprocessing and databases are the things computers should
be doing. As such, it has settled on systems that do these operations
as quickly and inexpensively as possible which is why DOS apps still outsell
even Windows one (although it's finally getting close) and which is why
you need things like QEMM, etc...People being exposed to multimedia on a 
PC will simply see little of note in computing. The things just aren't very
interesting, and companies that have tried to make them interesting are 
having a hard time of it. The 486 I have is set up to be as interesting as
a PC could possibly be at this time. Yet few people who visit our home find
the thing of interest, which is not what I can say about every other system I
have.
 
Had it not been for the PC we would have sound, motion, better TV/computer
interaction, etc...for a very reasonable price. As it is the 486 has taken
over the desktop and we have all these rather unpleasant things sitting
around demoing Wolfenstein3D...It's a nightmare.
 
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 26 Dec 92 11:45:27 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec24.013559.22135@usl.edu> by das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A):
> In article <jbickers.0lzu@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
> >Quoted from <1992Dec22.055037.29390@usl.edu> by das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A):

> >> boot off a floppy?  Uh huh.  Then what do the vast majority of 
> >> Amigans do?  *Right*.  They swap disks.

> >    After booting from a floppy, most Amigans just get on with playing
> >    the game!

> That's just not true.  This Amiga 1000 next to me needs disk-swapping
> all the time.  I have piles of floppies laying around here on my 8' long

    Sheesh. It is widely admitted that most Amigans are gamers with
    A500s or whatever, and their knowledge of using the OS consists
    of turning the machine on and inserting the game or demo disk.

    But now you are claiming that you represent the vast majority of
    Amigans?

> Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Questions about new
Date: 1 Jan 1993 18:49:50 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C05vz8.Ixs@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   With RTG, will these third-party product completely replace the chipsets?
>As in, will they do everything that the chipsets can do, like copper lists?

Here's the gist of what was said, Marc.  Try to read between the
lines.

Take C='s chips, put them on a card, write a driver.  Plug in, and go.

Guess what.  It'll do copper lists.  Great way to upgrade your 4000 to
the new high-end chipset.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:38:55 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: One can EASILY see the philosophy that lies behind the Amiga's OS.  A
: large part of that philosophy centers around real-time response.  It
: has a well-architected and layered design (even if there are some iffy
: parts...).  Look at Windows?  What was its design purpose?  What was
: the point?
:

The design purpose?!  It's obvious: to provide support for modern
applications on a vast array of peripheral hardware.  That's just one
sentence, but it implies things like the GUI, VM, and DIG.  Do you feel
that this philosophy is less valid than the one behind AmigaOS?  Why?

:
: It's messy, it has no uniform design, it is layered rather
: poorly, and its BASE is very, very poor.
:

I'd like to know where you got this information.  Has MS let you look over
the Windows source code?  If not, how did you determine that it has a bad
internal architecture?

You keep saying that Windows is badly designed, but you have no proof.

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: skank@iastate.edu (George L. Hall-Skank)
Subject: Re: Power-up for AGA Machines! rumour.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:32:56 GMT

In article <BzA2AI.Hs0@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury) writes:
>22black@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Martin Black) writes:
>
>>And to the alpha processor, it has a rewritable opcode to emulate an 68040
>>or something like that.  So perhaps that is how they pulled running 
>>amigados on the alpha. Of course you would want an os that would run directly
>>off the risc cpu, ie risc os.
>
>
>That's not really necessary, because it'll be blazing fast anyway.... Besides,
>all the programs would be written and compiled for a 68000 machine...
>(ie Dpaint, ProKludge, Final Copy etc...)
>
>>Martin

     Your're right of course, you don't need a RISC OS to take advantage of
ALPHA, but think how much faster it would run if you *did* recompile some
or all of the OS to RISC code!  I could be mistaken about this, but ALPHA
should be able to run both ALPHA-specific code and 68xxx code at the same
time (using the rewritable opcode stuff).
						--George

-- 
George L. Hall-Skank            |    The next wave in Object Oriented      ///
Graduate, Electrical Engineering| Programming languages: COBOLPlusPlus!   ///
Iowa State University, Ames,	|				     \\\ ///
skank@iastate.edu               |				      \\X//
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 11:07:23 GMT

In article <1htfrnINN297@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>	Yeah, but I don't want to wait years for those killer AGA games to
>   come out, IF at all.  I look around and see software companies dropping
>   Amiga support, not becoming active.


The AGA is bran new.  We'll know before long.  The 3000 was voted "best
computer" or something in Germany this year.  The best games I've seen on 
Amiga come from either Germany or Great Brittan, so I am not too worried by
what anyone in the USA sees when he looks around.  And I think CD-ROM is
going to change things. ...really open up multimedia.  But who knows?   


>	I don't see the A1200 as being the standard base machine, I see the
>   A600 as being that, and it doesn't have AGA.  


There will be a new wave of software written for the AGA machines and the
1200 will be the base.  I don't think this assertion needs a lot of
supporting argument.  


>	You usually advocate the Amiga, so I assume you have one.  Why don't
>   you get a bridge board or some other 3rd party PC card for your Amiga? 
>   That sounds like a better alternative for you.


Well... that is what I'd like to do, but right now, that is not a very
economical decision. ...especially given that you can buy a used 386sx
clone with 100 or so meg hard drive for $500.  When I said that I'd 
wait and see, I want to see what AGA-VGA emulation will be like and if a 
486DX or something bridge board will come along.  I can get a good
cheap used clone and use my A2000 w/Amax for a couple more months.  The
Power Up deal is good through March.

And I have personal reasons why I can't put more that a couple of grand
into a computer system at the moment. ...like I don't have that much money! 
 :)  But I sure as hell don't want to dump $2000 into a clone. 


                                  NCW
 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 2 Jan 93 10:21:45 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Fri  2 Jan 93 18:52, Ggg@kepler.unh.edu (gregory G Green
wrote:

 GGG>      And it will also be burning a much larger whole in your wallet.

For a much better machine, in my humble opinion. ;)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
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/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
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 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green)
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:11:08 GMT

In article <BzyrAo.FEp@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
 >I think a lawsuit might be in order, since for a personal computer with slots,
 >opening it up to install cards is part of normal and expected usage. I can see
 >this sort of restriction on the 500 through the 1200, but on the 2000 on up
 >it's like voiding your car's warranty because you changed the oil yourself.
 >-- 
 >Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.

Commodore did not void the warrantee on the 2000, originally. When I first 
bought my A2000, the first thing I did was install an extra memory card.
 
My Co-op Job involved doing minor upgrades such as installing Hard Drives, and
memory cards, and other peripherals to computers the company owned. It is 
silly of C= to assume no Amiga Owner can install a memory card, or other option.
 
I would like my dealer to install options, I am not comfortable doing myself,
but If my dealer will not recognize my warrantee because I installed a C=
display enhancer, he sold me, in my 2000, which he sold me. Then he will
install it himself at no charge to me. (It already means I have to take the
machine down there).
 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: remilld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jason Remillard)
Subject: Re: A4000 or NOT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:31:56 GMT

In <10280@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:

>In article <1g8m8lINN6t2@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.180821.1496@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>
>>>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who also had and Apple ][ and did something with it
>>>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
>>
>>It seems that we're all a bunch of Apple's 8-bit rejects.  ;)

>I beg to differ. I learnt computing on some (wannabe) mainframes, but the
>first micro I really used and loved was a PET. I had the chance to at least
>try a bunch of others and also do real work on a few different ones, but
>I always returned to my Commodore one with big relief. And that was long
>before I joined the company.

>-- 
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
>Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
>Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!

I agree.  My school had about 20 of them.  The next machine that really was good learning tool was the TI/99 4a.  The graphics and sound really surpassed anything else that was available at the time.  

Them were the days when Commodore was in all of the schools...  After the PETs
we had C64's...  Now, I hardly ever see any Commodore products in ANY schools.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason L.M. Remillard		REMILLARD@ceddwntwn.lan1.umanitoba.ca
MicroLab Assistant		Jason_Remillard@UManitoba.CA
University of Manitoba		REMILLD@ccm.umanitoba.ca
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 or NOT
Date: 24 Dec 92 07:07:11 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Fri 18 Dec 92 14:57, Ggg@kepler.unh.edu (gregory G Green
wrote:

 GGG>  It may well be the best computer, but what are you supposed to do 
 GGG>    with it, if it has no software.  Bronze it, and put it on the
 GGG> mantle piece,
 GGG>    with a plaque saying "Amiga - The Best Computer".

No software?  You're not really aware of the Amiga market, are you?  Sigh. 
Chalk it up to yet another idiot.

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bus Standards
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:22:05 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

>>only because instead of trying to ADVANCE this "open architecture" C=
>>set off with it's own, you can't get our MS-Excel, and we are just
>>awakening to your multimedia.  It's unfortunate that we have all this
>>wasted energy duplicating work.
>
>No, the inavailability of Excel is entirely the result of corporate
>politics, not bus standards. As others have said before, there is nothing
>preventing MS, Borland or Lotus from developing Amiga versions of their
>programs. But as recent movements in the Mac market attest, many
>developers would like to create applications for a single OS.

It's not politics, it's profits!  IF the resources that would be used
to make an Amiga version can be put towards improving the PC version
(even marginally) the profit potential is greater in improving PC
market share.

>
>But, Unix code is highly portable.
>

*SOME* unix code is portable.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32293 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19164