HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re: holding a kid back in school
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:23:53 GMT

In article <TIGGER.92Apr9204707@satyr.Sylvan.COM> tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>I'm finding myself reacting strangely to finding out going to
>kindergarten becomes a major focus of the last year of preschool. Are
>all preschools so divided?  Are 3 and 4 year olds kept totally
>separate? So, do you start your kid 'late' in preschool if you want
>them to start kindergarten late, to minimize the trama??

In my son's preschool, they have the "Sprout room" for kids who start
preschool before age 3 1/2.   They have the "Rainbow room" which is the
kindergarten class.  The other rooms all have an age spread to them --
they have everyone in between.  At the beginning of next year, for
instance, Timmy will move from the Berrie room to the Sunshine room,
along with the younger half of the Berrie Room.  His older classmates 
will move to the Rainbow room, along with the older kids from the 
Sunshine Room.  The younger kids in the Sunshine room move to the
Berrie Room.  And I see no signs of kindergarten preparation in any
of what he is doing now.  

-- Misty

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: etimmons@osc.edu (Elizabeth Timmons)
Subject: Re: My *opinion* on the safety CVS vs amnio
Organization: The Ohio Supercomputer Center
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:50:15 GMT

As a datapoint to be added to Tracy's investigation of CVS:  My
OB is 39 years old and had CVS at 9 weeks gestation.  I can
understand Tracy's concerns and respect here opinion.  But it
also appears that other informed women will choose CVS.  My OB
said she had it because of her age and the correlation with
birth defects.

Elizabeth
From: karen@madhouse.cavebbs.gen.nz ((Karen Hayward))
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: More on Girls in Math and Science
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:22:15 GMT
Organization: The Hayward Circus, Wellington, New Zealand.

valentin@netcom.com (Valentin Pepelea) writes:

> In article <wcFuiB1w163w@madhouse.cavebbs.gen.nz>
> karen@madhouse.cavebbs.gen.nz ((Karen Hayward)) writes:
> >
> >I wouldn't totally agree with you there...presently I am the only female pup
> >at Catholic boy's high school. I have gone back to school to gain further
> >qualifications. I'm actually at school with two of my sons :-)
> >
> >I find the atmosphere great...the boys are lively and thier behaviour is
> >fine!! It in noway resembles Hell....
> 
> Yes, but that's because *you* are there!
> 

Nonsense...*I* have only been a pupil there or a couple of weeks.

On the otherhand, I have had sons there for more than 6 years...they
have enjoyed it. They have certainly never compared it to Hell!

Karen
From: elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "Whole Language" teaching concept
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:52:38 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

beth@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Beth Crespo) writes:

> 
>> IMO nothing is better  than having a kid be able to sound out a word
>> until s/he figures out what it is...this is also fun to watch.
>Unfortunately some of us just can't do that. I also don't see how
>that is useful - words just don't sound like strings of phonetic sounds,
>the combination often changes the pronunciation. Also the meaning of a word 
>is never revealed by sounding it out - that only helps to recognize words 
>the reader has already heard, how does it help with learning new words? 

In most cases (at least with my kids) the word they are trying to read
(pronounce), theyve heard before (and sometimes use or know the meaning)
so once they sound it out it clicks. (thats how it worked for me). Usually
at grade school level your verbal capacity is well ahead of your reading 
capacity.

Well I admit the email Ive gotten was enlightening and I can certainly see
advantages in aspects of the Whole Language techniques. So I retract most
of my "stupid" remark (I did preface my post by admitting ignorance). I still
believe phonics should be a mandatory part of the early grade school program.

>> Also this technique helps them in spelling so when
>> they get older they wont be harassment targets on the Net...
>So does a dictionary. When I see a word I don't recognize I look it up
>(and always have) and then I learn how to spell it (not really, I learn
>how it looks when it is spelled correctly) and I learn what the word
>means in all its variations, how to pronounce the whole word, and usually
>read a dozen other words while I've got the book open.  :-)

Just curious but how do you decode the pronounciation algorithm in the
dictionary without an understanding of phonics (albeit a variation on
						       the theme)?

Eber
--
From: las@ai.mit.edu (Lynn Stein)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Newborn advice/anecdotes wanted
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:39:27 GMT
	<LAS.92Apr9134325@puffies.ai.mit.edu>
Reply-To: las@ai.mit.edu (Lynn Andrea Stein)
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: las@ai.mit.edu's message of 9 Apr 92 17:43:24 GMT

Thanks again to all who have written to my friends and their (today)
one-week-old daughter.  This group and its members continue to impress
and delight me with your support.

I spoke with Tracy (the mom) this morning and she'd switched to
formula yesterday.  The person on the phone this morning was an
entirely different human being from the one I posted about: she
sounded happy, secure, and even proud of how much she's learned in the
last week.  She says that she still feels short on sleep, but now
sounds like that's something that she believes will improve.  And she
was immensely grateful for all of the support that she has received
from the net; she plans to save your messages to show to Alison some
day.

Once again, thank you for your help.

                                          Lynn 

                                          las@ai.mit.edu
From: goldberg@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: holding a kid back in school
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:40:00 GMT
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr4.033010.13608@usl.edu>, elg@usl.edu (Eric Green) writes...
> 
>On the other hand, holding a kid back in kindegarten is okay -- for one year.
>If the kid is not judged to be "ready" for school yet (such as a kid who
>is 9 months younger than most of his classmates). This kid isn't a failure --
>he's just a kid who's younger/smaller than most of his classmates, and we're
>giving him another year to become older/larger than most of his classmates.
> 
>I suspect that most of the problem with holding kids back due to academic
>failure comes from the attitudes of the parents, who believe that the kid
>is a failure and impart this attitude to him. Holding the kid back in
>kindegarten doesn't cause this problem, and is infinitely preferable
>to pushing the kid into first grade and having the kid fail
>academically.
> 
I was just talking this morning to the mother of one of my daughter's
classmates (first grade). He is getting special help with his reading,
and she told me that the fact that SHE held him back to repeat
kindergarden was brought up at the meeting to discuss his reading
'problem'. She feels he is 'labeled' because SHE held him back in
kindergarden. So, some schools do promote the attitude that any
holding back marks a problem.
                             Patti Twigg
                             STPAT@lepvax.gsfc.nasa.gov
From: jhb@sei.cmu.edu (Joanne Beckman)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: UpcomingBabyInfo
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:45:38 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University (Software Engineering Institute)


Along with the other questions shown below, I am looking for the 
previously posted information on what to have around when the baby 
arrives.  My due date is sometime in mid-November and this will be 
Eric's and my first child.  I lose my net news access at the end of 
August, when I quit working full-time and just stick to part-time
graduate courses.

I am interested in breast feeding, but since I will be doing full-time
student-teaching next spring, I will be expressing milk.  
Please share your opinions on various kinds of breast pumps and costs,
various theories of child discipline techniques (recommended
books might be the best method for this), and experiences with 
daytime only nannies.

This news group has already proved very useful on what kinds of 
questions to ask the OB/GYN, avoiding the Gerry gate, and
where to find comfortable, natural pregnancy clothes.  I don't sew either, 
so unfortunately, that is not an option.  Thanks for the help....Joanne
From: ssmith@eoin.net.netcom.com (Shannon Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Underweight 1 year old
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:22:55 GMT
Organization: Amethyst Systems

Funny how ignorance is bliss....

My daughter turned 1 last Sunday.  A couple of weeks before that, she
was at the clinic for a suspected sinus/ear infection.  The Dr
weighed her and mentioned that she was really underweight.  I
mentioned that her brother was somewhat underweight for his age, and
the Dr seemed okay with that.

I found the weight charts for girls, and as I read them, she is just
over the 3rd (third!) percentile for weight!  She is walking,
climbing, saying her first words, and in every other way behaving
like any other 1 year old.  She eats well and as often as she wants.
She is also nursed on demand, and gets cups of juice & formula too.
More stats: 8lb 4.5 oz at birth, 17lb 6 oz at almost 1 year old.  I
am 5'10" & her father is the same; both families are average to
tall, and medium in build.  She was completely nursed until just shy
of 6 months.  She doesn't seem to have any allergies.

Should I be concerned?

---
Shannon Smith                     ssmith@xocolotl.com

     "For the world trusts us with power... they trust
      us to do what's right."    
                   G. Bush, "State of the Union," 1992
From: michelle@cs.utk.edu (Michelle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: OB .vs. a Midwife
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:29:19 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu

I was wondering if someone (anyone!) would be willing to share
their experience using a midwife for their pregnancy.

Pros and cons to it would be wonderful.  How do you go about finding 
someone you feel comfortable with AND trust?  If you decide to use
a CNM do you also need to see an OB (I would guess not, but what do I
know? - Not enough. . .)

Also, what are the costs involved with a midwife?

Thanks much -

michelle
From: kk@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Konstantinos Konstantinides)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:12:02 GMT
Subject: Baby sitter wanted
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: misc.kids


I am posting this for friend, so no direct responses please.
-----------------------------

Live in or out Babysitter wanted for a 1-1/2 year old boy.
Greek speaking preferred. Non smoking in the house.
Please call (408) 292-0193 between 6-10 pm. Cleo
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mbb@keps.kodak.com (Maureen Busch)
Subject: Re: Helping 5 YO Learn to Read
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:32:34 GMT

In article <4APR199208354355@vxcrna.cern.ch>, veitch@vxcrna.cern.ch (Liz Veitch)
writes:
> Of course 5 year olds are ready to start reading!

So far, nobody has flamed me for inquiring, so I guess we are all in agreement.

> In the UK, all children must be enrolled in school on or before their 5th 
> birthday - so a British child of this age would have been in school and 
> learning to read for almost a year.

Great!  And what are they reading?  And what kind of an approach are they
using to teach it?  If you would be so kind as to forward more info, I would
love to include it in my summary.  Several people have asked for a summary,
since they are in the same boat I am.

Of course, first we should define "reading", since I am also discovering that
different people have different definitions.  Jody knows/recognizes all his
letters (upper and lower case) and knows the sounds that go with them.  He
recognizes many simple words (and quite a few not so simple ones!), and works
hard to sound out the ones he doesn't know.  His problems seem to be knowing
when it is a "long" or a "short" vowel sound, putting together the blends, and
figuring out the words that have no obvious rule, like the word "through".
Jody is getting frustrated putting it all together to have the story flow.

So please, give more details.  I've got a very frustrated little boy who would
love to learn.  (BTW, kindergarten is the first year of elementary school in
the US)
-- 
Maureen Busch
Internet: mbb@keps.kodak.com
UUCP: ...!{harvard!ima,uunet!atexnet}!munsell!cairo!mbb
DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.
From: winner@Apple.COM (Stephanie Winner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: The secret to breastfeeding success
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:11:31 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Swedish Milk cups!

I'm sure some of you already know about these wonderful devices, but
for those who don't read on!  I was introduced to them in the hospital
when I had my first baby.  I really didn't want to breastfeed, but was
willing to try it.  I was put off by the stories of cracked nipples,
engorgement, etc.  Since I am a fair-skinned redhead, everyone warned
me that I would have problems.  Much to my surprise I didn't have
any of those problems thanks to the swedish milk cups.

Basically these cups allow the breast to leak while keeping the nipple
dry.  They are hard to describe...sort of a cone with holes in it which
is placed over the nipple.  You look a little funny wearing them under
your clothes, but you only need them for a few weeks.

They prevent cracked nipples but allowing you to air dry and they prevent
engorgement by causing you to leak (great at night).  I got mine at the
hospital but I have seen them (or similar devices) in the Right Start
catalog and at maternity stores.

Stephanie Winner
winner@apple.com
From: davej@techbook.com (Dave J. Johnsen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Other Goofy Songs (was Re: Worm song?)
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:59:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Apr14.155945.1217
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix

In article <15263@drutx.ATT.COM> cme@druco.ATT.COM (ErtzCMK) writes:
>
>Here's another request:  Does anyone know the words for 
>"The Unicorn Song"?  My daughter's preschool teacher would
>like them because several of the kids are interested in 
>unicorns.  He already has the chorus, but doesn't know
>the words to the verses.  
>
>Now we can all show our age.... "The Unicorn Song" was a
>hit for a group called "The Irish Rovers" a long time ago.
>We think it was probably late sixties or early seventies.
>You are welcome to correct me if you know the exact date and
>it's different!
>
>Thanks in advance -
>
>Katie Ertz
>AT&T Bell Laboratories - Denver, CO

Well, I am that old.  And The Irish Rovers Album was the very first record 
album I ever owned for myself.  It was a gift from my grandmother, the same
Christmas I got Strawberry Alarm Clock.

I will do as much of the song as I can from memory.  Incidentally, the Irish
Rovers played in Portland last year.

(Sung in a heavy Irish brogue)

A long time ago when the the earth was green,
There was more kinds of animals than you've ever seen.
There were cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
Don't you forget the unicorns.
	There was green aligators and long necked geese
	some humpty back camels and some chimpanees
	Cats and rats and elephants but sure as you're born,
	the loveliest of all was the unicorn.
...
Old noah was there to answer the call,
he finished up making the ark just as the rain started falling
He marched in the animals two by two,
And he called out as they went through.
	I've got your green alligators and long necked geese,
	Your humpty back camels and your chimpanzees.
	Your cats and rats and elephants, but lord I'm so forlorn,
	I just can't see no unicorns.
(Chorus)
Old Noah looked out through the driving rain
But the unicorns was hiding playing silly games
...
The waters came down and sort of floated them away,
and that's why you never see a unicorn to this very day.
(Sadly)
	You'll see green aligators and long necked geese,
	Some humpty back camels and some chimpanzees
	Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
	You're never gonna see a unicorn.
----
Hey, My memory ain't so good any more.  I have children now.  :)
Dave

-- 
davej@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks  
TECHbooks is kind enough to provide me with access, I wouldn't presume  
to have their opinions.  I am not even sure I have my own!
From: wendy@milton.u.washington.edu (Wendy Grant)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: An announcement
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:39:15 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


  Some of you may remember that I asked questions about laparoscopies
last summer and then asked for success stories with pergonal in
January. Lots of you sent me mail and asked for an update sometime
down the road. How's this for an update-

  I am pregnant (5 weeks)!

  I still can't believe it but am slowly adjusting to the idea. I
got pregnant after my second course of pergonal and 2 1/2 years
of infertility. So there is hope out there for others!

  Look for a birth announcement in mid-December (and probably questions
about pregnancy before then)!

Wendy Grant Walter        wendy@u.washington.edu
From: kellihmt@daisymae.crd.ge.com (Margaret T Kelliher)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "Whole Language" teaching concept
Keywords: whole-language is not whole-word
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:33:03 GMT
Reply-To: kellihmt@daisymae.crd.ge.com (Margaret T Kelliher)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

First, my qualifications: none, except my mother-in-law teaches 1st grade
and is using the whole-language curriculum.

I think we're getting confused here between the whole-word method of 
reading (ie as opposed to phonics) and the whole-language curriculum.
The whole-language curriculum, as I understand it, is an integrated way
of teaching where everything relates back to the reading which you are
doing.  They seem to emphasize stories and comprehension, rather than
"See Spot run" types of stuff.  

They do activities which relate back to the story of the week. For 
example, one story was about beans and soup, and they sorted beans into 
similar shapes and sizes as part of that week's activities (normally a 
science activity, apparently). They also have different activity centers 
through which all the children rotate (although this may not be a feature
of whole-language per se).In general, my mother-in-law seems to think that 
it's a good program.

Margaret Kelliher
kellihmt@crd.ge.com
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: OB .vs. a Midwife
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:17:22 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

andyt@pogo.wv.tek.com (Andy Tilp) writes:
>One last flame against OB's.  When we met with the OB regarding
>getting the labor started, he was incredibly callous to our feelings.

>The bottom line, based on our experience, is an alternative to MD OB's
>will provide you with a much more caring, natural and less costly
>birth.

Andy, first, let me offer my sympathies to you and your family on the
loss of your child.

Although I am currently pregnant for the first time (no delivery
experience), I am very satisfied with my OB, and just wanted to
respond to the idea that OBs, by their very nature, aren't caring or
natural.  My OB is a very nice, pleasant man.  He's been supportive
and helpful as I've dealt with a pregnancy in which I feel fine*, but
am having medical problems that require weekly monitoring by a
hematologist and will almost certainly require a c-section.

I'm not knocking midwives, and I know there are incallous OBs out
there (any want to hear the horror story of the OB who examined me
after my abnormal pap the day after I learned my husband was deploying
to the Gulf?)   I do think there are lots of good OBs, though.  For
pregnancies with medical problems, a full-fledged OB might be the best
option.  This is one of those issues where an _individual_ makes the
difference--a great OB is better than a mediocre midwife, and a great
midwife is better than a mediocre OB.  

*Note to those of you who offered advice on back problems and
constipation: okay, so I have back problems and constipation--mostly I
feel great. :-)

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Xref: sparky misc.kids:12852 alt.kids-talk:606 alt.parents-teens:638 misc.education:1882
From: amym@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re:  Starting Young (or starting without insurance)
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:39:49 GMT
Reply-To: amym@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

this is sort of a political statement, but don't you netters think
it is awful when insurance companies, the government and society give
you this choice:  you can either marry and start a good relationship
with the mother of the child, or the mother can be covered by her parents'
insurance.  If she marries, she won't be covered, and she and the baby will
have to depend on the pitiful and dwindling state and federal programs for
the poor.  *if* they can qualify, which is not always.

It is pretty sad to have to remain unmarried, stay in your current job,
not start your own business, etc. because you (and sometimes your entire
family) would then lose coverage!  I cannot be insured by a private carrier
because of allergies and asthma.  That's it.  No home business for my
husband and I, ever!  Going without insurance is even crazier given the
skyrocketing costs of even routine treatment, not to mention emergency
treatment.  Even the healthiest could get hit by a car!

I don't know where followups should go, but I think it is a crying shame
that health insurance limits our lives to this extent.  I know I should
be grateful for any insurance I have, and believe me I am, but I wish
there was a way to cover everyone.

What do you think?