HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sm@jyu.fi (Seismo Malm)
Subject: Piima in food (was Re: Piima culture is working)
Followup-To: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:42:04 GMT

Firstly, you can almost allways replace youghurt with piima, if you
want. If you are using piima to replace youghurt, add some milk powder
to milk, it will make piima thiker and more suitable for dressings
etc.

Cheese from piima I

Piima
(salt)
(spices)

warm piima VERY gently, stirr occasionally but not too much until
piima will form grannules. Remove from heat, and remove whey from
cheese (use cheese cloth). This kind of cheese is called rahka, and
is very good with sour fruits.


Cheese from piima II

piima
(salt)
(spices)

Just put some piima into coffee filter (use filter paper!) and let it
drop quite dry. Will make exellent tsatsiki (sp?), just add garlic,
salt, olive oil and cucumber (in small pieces). This takes about 1 day
to make (2-3 l piima, in cheesecloth)


Cheese from piima and milk 

3 l milk
1 l piima
(salt)
(spices)

Heat milk to almost boiling point, remove from heat and add piima.
Cover until it solidifies and cut to pieces with long, thin knife.
Let "rest" for some time and remove pieces of cheese from whey. Put
pieces of cheese to coffee filter (don't use filter paper) and let it
dry for about 2-4 hours.



None of above cheeses uses rennet, so they are suitable for
lacto-vegetarians, for example. All of they are called fresh cheeses,
because they are not stored, but are used fresh. They were
traditionally made from whole milk, but results are quite good from
even non-fat milk. Natural youghurt can be substituted 1:1 for piima,
but results will be different.

seismo
-- 
sm@tukki.jyu.fi  (seismo malm)      finger for pgp 2.1 public key


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Bread machines and bread
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:07:37 CST

In article 2MF@panix.com, patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger) writes:

|As soon as David Lawrence returns he will post the official
|
|	CALL FOR DISCUSSION (CFD: newgroup) for the
|	creation of a new newsgroup called : rec.food.breadmachines
|	or something like that.
|
|	There will be no call for votes until the call for
|	discussion period is over :-)
|
|	Watch for further information in : rec.food.cooking
|	or				    news.newgroup.announce


	Crimeny!  If any related group ought to be notified
	surely rec.food.sourdough would be it?


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum)
Subject: Re: Start Me Up
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr, Calif.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:46:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.170956.22736@eos.arc.nasa.gov> shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
>I'm a total novice at this, so bear with me pleeze. I attempted to make
>some starter 3 days ago, and so far *nothing*. It didn't rise at all, and
>after a couple o' hours, the liquid seperates from the rest of the mixture
>and comes to the top. Does this stuff have to be a certain temp. for it to
>rise? Its been COLD here. For days now. Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>                            R ****
>                             I
>                              C
>                          **** K	
>


I gotta *lot* of replies/suggestion/help to the above post,
so please forgive my laziness for not responding to each one
directly thru e mail, and please accept this collective THANKS
to all who responded.



                                 R **** 
                                  I
                                   C
                               **** K 
   
********************************************************************************                  There's a bit of magic in everything
                  and then some loss to even things out

                                                        Lou Reed
                                                     Magic and Loss ==|==
********************************************************************************  


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: twm3@world.std.com (Thomas W Moore)
Subject: Just Starting Help
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:55:18 GMT

Hiya,

As the title suggest, I am just starting (no pun intended :-) ) up and
have what should be a very basic question.  I have a pack of "Goldrush
Old Fashioned San Francisco Style Sourdough Starter" and they suggest that
after I add the 2 cups of white flour and water that I let it sit in a
warm (80-85 degrees) for 36-48 hours.  Right :-| .  I keep the house at
66 degrees when I am awake and turn it down to 60 degrees at night.  Will
my lovely yeast go forth and multiply when it is that cold?  If they do
bless with more yeast etc, any idea how long it will take at the 60
degree climes of my house.  Or am I going to be told that I need to construct
some type of "house" to keep my new pet, the yeast, alive.  I was thinking
of a cardboard box and a lamp of some sort.

Second question (of three):  The little packet of information included
with the starter talks about measuring out 1 1/2 cups of the mixture
described above.  I'm not a rocket scientist but I would think that taking
1 1/2 cups out of the above mixture (a total of about 2 1/2 cups) would
pretty much finish it off.  Or does the mixture greatly expand after the 
yeasties go forth and multiply?

Third (and last for the time being) question:  I take it that after the
36-48 hours of multiplying, etc. that I need to "feed" my new pet.  I've
got a book called "The Best of Herman Sourdough" and they have a feeding
diet for the fifth day and then for the tenth day of the sourdough.  The
tenth day feeding is also used once every five days for the rest of the live
of the sourdough.  With the above mixture, I take it that I can skip
immediately to the ten day feeding because I have a real starter (the
Herman culture starts with milk, water, flour, milk, and sugar).  Any
comments?  Oh, one more 1/2 question.  The Herman book talks about freezing
the starter if you get bored with it, will be on vacation, etc.  Does
sourdough freeze in the sense of greatly slowly down its life.

Thanks advance for your help.  I hope you all can help me with these
fairly basic (I hope) questions.

~Tom

-- 
===============================================================================
"There is indeed such a thing as a free lunch - however it just isn't exactly
the lunch you had in mind." - No-No, it is On-On, twm3@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rstenson@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Ronald Ernest Stenson)
Subject: access information
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:11:20 GMT

I have just come across your group in my reader.  There were 833 unread
articles when I started but none materialized.  My wife would be very
interested in sourdough recipes (she has allergies to yeast) and I would
like more information on your group.  Could you please e-mail me with
information on the status of the group, your group statement and the site
of any archives you might keep.

Thank you in advance

rstenson@spartan.ac.brocku.ca
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Bread machines and bread
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:34:24 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfcgf.sde.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

kenneth.roser (ker@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:
: 1.) There were quite a few people complaining about gooey centers of bread
: using Welbilt breadmakers.  One person was sharing his experiences with
: the repair facilities that Welbilt utilized.  He went thru several machines
: with no success.  This story never had a conclusion.  Was the cause of
: gooey centers ever found or was it just recipes as some people had
: theorized.

I was one of the "gooey" complainers.  The problem seems to be the fault
of the machines, though sometimes you can modify the recipe to help.
Pertinent info:

  - Of all the people who had the problem, I believe NONE of them had
    any trouble until the machine was several months old.  Recipes that
    had worked like a charm suddenly started producing gooey glop.
    (The Lemon Bread recipe was my worst problem -- I'd made it half a
    dozen times in the first 3-4 months with no problems, then ended up
    giving up on it because it started making goo EVERY time.)

    This indicates to me that something changed or degraded in the machines.

  - Someone suggested adding extra gluten to the recipe.  I've tried this
    and was able to make an edible Lemon Bread loaf.  It seemed to me
    it was "stiffer" than the original delightful, light, cakey loaf,
    but at least it was cooked.

On a related note, someone just posted to misc.consumers that he went
through FOUR Welbilt machines before giving up and going to a Panasonic.
He's had no problems since then.

Gary
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: access information
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:35:14 CST

In article 6865@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA, rstenson@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Ronald Ernest Stenson) writes:
|I have just come across your group in my reader.  There were 833 unread
|articles when I started but none materialized.  My wife would be very
|interested in sourdough recipes (she has allergies to yeast) and I would

Sorry, but sourdough will not likely help you here.  Although sourdough usually
uses a different species or strain of yeast than comercial yeast, it is still
yeast.

|like more information on your group.  Could you please e-mail me with
|information on the status of the group, your group statement and the site
|of any archives you might keep.
|

I don't know what you mean by status.  I believe another post addresses the
archives, so I won't.

|Thank you in advance
|
|rstenson@spartan.ac.brocku.ca



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu (Jim Mccoy)
Subject: Archives moving (Was Re: Where are the archives?)
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:50:30 GMT

In article <albcraj-050193105226@cluster-175w-node.net.yale.edu> albcraj@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Craig Albert) writes:
>Could someone please post or send me the internet address of the sourdough
>archive server?		

The archives are currently available via anonymous ftp from ftp.ils.nwu.edu
in the /pub/sourdough directory. 

The operative word here is currently.  I have moved down to Austin, Tx to
begin work with UT and the archives will be following me once I get settled
and have a new home for them.  Stay tuned to this group for announcements
regarding their new home.

-jim
-- 
Jim McCoy          |  PGP 2.0 Key md5 hash:
j-mccoy@nwu.edu    |  61323c49024cb089337c78a05aafe8c6
mccoy@ils.nwu.edu  |  finger mccoy@ils.nwu.edu for public key

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: albcraj@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Craig Albert)
Subject: Where are the archives?
Followup-To: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: Public Macs, Yale University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:53:14 GMT

Could someone please post or send me the internet address of the sourdough
archive server?		

Thanks, Craig        albcraj@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu

--
This message was posted from a public Macintosh at Yale University.  The
identity of the poster is not necessarily their true one.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: ker@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (kenneth.roser)
Subject: Bread machines and bread
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:48:58 GMT

I've recently retrieved the entire bread archives from onion and have read
almost all of it.  There were several threads that seemed to be open ended.
Can anyone finish the stories here?

1.) There were quite a few people complaining about gooey centers of bread
using Welbilt breadmakers.  One person was sharing his experiences with
the repair facilities that Welbilt utilized.  He went thru several machines
with no success.  This story never had a conclusion.  Was the cause of
gooey centers ever found or was it just recipes as some people had
theorized.

2.) There was a discussion of a new USENET group for rec.food.bread or
some name like that.  I never read anything about a call for votes.
Apparently that group was never created and this group is the closest
thing to it.  Is there or was there a bread newgroup?
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Roser - WA2VCI - ker@mtgzfs3.att.com - AT&T Bell Laboratories - 908-957-5822
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: New to this 2
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:48:04 CST


Archives and FAQs should be available via anonymous FTP from ftp.ils.nwu.edu
under the directory pub/sourdough.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Pretzels
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:31:50 CST

In article lkhaacINNa0p@news.bbn.com, mcerreto@bbn.com (Michael Cerreto) writes:
|
|	Anyone have a recipe for soft sourdough pretzels?
|
|	Any experiences with same?
|
|Mike


I believe that at least one individual has posted information about sourdough
pretzels which recipe is now included in the recipes FAQ.  I believe it's 
recipe 814.  


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: spikew@sr.hp.com (Spike Wetmore)
Subject: Re: Start Me Up
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:02:12 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]

There is an excellant starter recp. in the Sunset Magazine's
Favorite Recipes Vol. 2. This starter uses plain yogart and gives
it a wonderful sour flavor. My experience with it has been that it 
only lasts a few months and then the flavor fades but it is very 
easy to make new one.

Good Luck 
     Spike
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Bread machines and bread
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:29:31 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <1993Jan7.024858.9154@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> ker@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (kenneth.roser) writes:
>[deleted]
>
>2.) There was a discussion of a new USENET group for rec.food.bread or
>some name like that.  I never read anything about a call for votes.
>Apparently that group was never created and this group is the closest
>thing to it.  Is there or was there a bread newgroup?

As soon as David Lawrence returns he will post the official

	CALL FOR DISCUSSION (CFD: newgroup) for the
	creation of a new newsgroup called : rec.food.breadmachines
	or something like that.

	There will be no call for votes until the call for
	discussion period is over :-)

	Watch for further information in : rec.food.cooking
	or				    news.newgroup.announce



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain. And pick flowers in 
other people's gardens And learn to spit. -- "Warning" by Jenny Joseph
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com>
Subject: Piima culture is working -
X-Xxdate: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:39:46 GMT
Organization: BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:36:02 GMT

Late last fall I put out a request for piima culture - now
it's time for
a report on how it's working.

I got the dried culture just before Christmas (thanks
again, Seismo!)
but waited until early January to start it up.  I brought
a liter of
1% milk to just under boiling, then let it cool to room
temperature, 
added the culture, and put in in my proofing box at about 
30 degrees C.  After 24 hours, nothing visible had
happened.  At
36 hours, the mixture had started to curdle and separate,
and had
started to get the "yogurty" smell.  I stirred it up and
put it back 
in the box, and at 40 hours, it had curdled and separated
again.  I
took it out, stirred it up, put it in the fridge, and used
it the next
morning - it was great!  The consistency after I stirred
it up was
like a thin custard with little lumps of cottage cheese in
it, and it
had a really pleasant mild tang to it.  I'd been told to
be patient
while the culture was "...waking up", which was absolutely
good
advice.

I ate/drank most of it that week, saved about 100ml, used
that as
a starter for another liter of heated-then-cooled milk. 
After 16
hours, the second batch was smooth, uniform, with that
great mild
tang to it.  Ate all but about 100ml, and last night, just
poured a
liter of cold 1% milk in ( not boiled first)and put it in
the proofing 
box.  Took it out this morning, and it looked and smelled
just like
the second batch.  All in all, I'm converted from yogurt -
this stuff
is great!

As for recipes, so far I've used it on cereals, in mashed
potatoes,
and just drunk it, either straight, or with some black
currant
syrup and/or mashed banana and/or a raw egg in it. 
Haven't 
tried cooking with it - should be able to use it in place
of sour 
cream or creme fraiche, but I'd expect it to separate with
heat.

I've got a couple of questions.  The Rodale book I have
says 
that the big advantage of piima over kefir and yogurt is
that
you don't have to heat the milk first in order to get the
culture to
work.  I was under the impression that the reason for
heating it
was to kill off any critters (bacilli? villi? ) that were
already in the
milk, so that the culture being introduced remained
relatively 
"pure" - why wouldn't that hold true with the piima
culture?

Also, how do you go about drying a culture?  

Tim
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Bread machines and bread
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:32:30 CST

 ker@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (kenneth.roser) writes:
|
|2.) There was a discussion of a new USENET group for rec.food.bread or
|some name like that.  I never read anything about a call for votes.
|Apparently that group was never created and this group is the closest
|thing to it.  Is there or was there a bread newgroup?
|-- 

Well we're still waiting for them to act.  (Somebody has to organize the
drive to create a newsgroup and it is a lot of work.)

When we were creating this group some one suggested that we call it 
rec.food.bread, and I suggested that the bread group might want that
name.  I suppose that perhapse they might want a more specific name 
like rec.food.breadmachine, but then perhaps that could go under a 
rec.food.appliance ?

Maybe the breadmachine list people don't want a newsgroup?



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: agm@bnr.co.uk (Andrew G. Minter)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Re: Papaya tablets for bun.
Date: 4 Jan 1993 14:23:12 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.164.64.60

I have been unable to find Papaya tablets in any of our local chemists or
health food shops. However, I did manage to get a small pack on dried
papaya. Our bun growled at it when I first offered it to her, but she
eventually checked it out and now she loves it. Does anyone know whether the
amalayse is likely to have survived the processing?

Andrew
--
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Andrew G. Minter            | Email: A.G.Minter@bnr.co.uk |
| Principal Research Engineer | Phone: +44 279 403165       |
| BNR Europe Limited          | Fax:   +44 279 451866       |
| London Road, Harlow         | ESN:   742-3165             |
| Essex  CM17 9NA             | Telex: 81151 BNR HW G       |
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------+
From: hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: bunny barber
Date: 7 Jan 93 06:54:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

Someone mentioned a bunny barber...does anyone know why buns seem to love to 
nibble on hair?  Especially when it is wet?  It seems every time I sit on the
sofa and Casey is loose, I hear a chomp, chomp and feel this tug of the bunny
devouring my hair.  She never misses a chance...doesn't give very good cuts 
either.
Kim Hill
hill@eecs.ucdavis.edu
From: milligan@carson.u.washington.edu (Paula Milligan)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Re: Bunny toys
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:19:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

Boy, did I learn how strong a bunny can be today!  Rocky was in an
especially rambunctious mood this morning, so excited to get out of
the bunny room the moment I got up, he didn't even wait till I was 
done in the shower! He scratched at the board we put across the 
bunny-room threshold like a puppy!  But once he finally (ten minutes
can seem like an eternity to a bunny, I suppose) got out and ran his
usual laps around the living room, I heard this CA-LUNK! CLUUNK noise
but was busy for the time; when I finally looked, I saw that Rocky had
taken a can of pepsi from a lower shelf and dragged it all the way   
across the kitchen to the living room.  It still had the plastic rings
from the six-pack attached, and that was what became the leash by which
he pulled his treasure.  Once he got it in the living room, he *tossed*
it into the air, and the cat was very jealous that he had such a fun
toy.  She immediately went over and smacked the other cat to make up 
for her own lack of a fun toy.  Of course, once I discovered what all
the racket was, I kept an eye on him, and took it away as soon as 
he lost interest.  It seems to me that the plastic rings would be
a little dangerous.  I think I'll try one of those orange juice cans
as recommended in HRS--I'll bet Rocky would really enjoy it.

BTW, the only reason he's restricted to the bunny room at night is 
that he developed a habit of coming into the bedroom, sqeezing under
the bed and digging at the linoleum under there, as though he were
in a tunnel.  *I* could sleep through that just fine, but my husband
was a little annoyed, especially after the second time it happened.

OTHER TOYS:  I cut a hole in a cardboard box (3'x 1.5' x 1') and Betsy,
especially, likes to get in there and dig around.  I tried a plastic 
cup, which they enjoyed for awhile, but they got tired of it after
a few hours.  They have made the paper recycling box into their own  
playroom.  They dive in, dig and shred at the paper, and toss sheets
of paper all over the room.

What fun family members they are!

--Paula Milligan, Seattle.


Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Gerbil pregnancy
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:31:15 GMT


How long does the pregnancy of a gerbil take? How many babies do they
usually have, how many times a year?

They are Arska & Tytti (Arnold & Girlie). Arska is in shades of dark
brown and a shade of black, Tytti is almost bright orange. Wonder what
their kids will look like.

--
jjj@mits.mdata.fi | PGP 2.0 key available | PGP 2.0 avain saatavilla