HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Subject: Re: Spelling Error
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:10:29 GMT

In article <24030@galaxy.ucr.edu>, tgrupe@watnxt11.ucr.edu (Todd E. Grupe) writes:
|> It should be spelled "Mornington Crescent."

Indeed.

|> Does anyone care?

Yes - I do.  However, mail to the originator of the newgroup message
bounced.  Any group (even though misspelled) is better than none,
methinks.

|> generic .sig
|> generic .sig
|> generic .sig
|> 
|> What are you reading this for?

You tell me.
--
Robin (come back John Drummond) Fairbairns       rf@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge  CB2 3QG, UK
"They had twelve years to lay in wait for us" - Bush supporter on Nov 4
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Problems with the Barking Move.
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:09:47 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom


 The subject of 'The Barking Dilemma' is a long and unhappy one. The only probl
em I can see with applying the Barking move when the Terminating Landsdowne Cyc
le has been reached (Jonathan Heitler jon@alex.com) is that if Barking is to be
 the next move, then under the 1967 Helsinki Rules Convention the opposing team
 is quite within its rights to yell 'FORWARD PASS' and the move will have to be
 retaken. Other than this little problem, I to am mystified at the lack of the
Barking solution.

        Solutions please to stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (JANET Address)
                            stucs204@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk (INTERNET Address)

         - aka Richard
From: ccaajrl@ucl.ac.uk (Jack Levy)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Recommended reading
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:04:23 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

jstark@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Jens Stark) writes:

>The Lausanne papers are recommended material for beginners. Only after
>reading the article about strategy depending on playing hours, the game
>got an entirely new horizon...
>Could anybody recommend advanced stuff ?

I still recommend Collington's paper (Proc.Inst.Morn.Cres. xxvi (pp 152-185)).
His approach might be a bit libertarian for some tastes, and his section on
bluffing strategies now shows its age, but most of the rest is still
unsurpassed, especially his treatment of anti-clockwise 3-person games.
And, of course, the non-associativity proof is a classic.

For a historical view, you can't do better than chapter 14 of Lotte
Schimmel's `Ursprung und Entwicklung den Bewegungsspielen'. A really thorough
job, although her speculations about the ancient Roman game of `Appian
Way' are now largely discredited. Includes an excellent bibliography.

Jack Levy,
Computer Centre,
University College London.
e-mail: J.Levy@ucl.ac.uk
From: zchag12@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Barry David Salkin)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: "closed" station rule query.
Summary: Request for help with ruling re : closed stations.
Keywords: closed, station, rule, Down Street.
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:58:24 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium


Hi,
I'm sorry if this re-hashes old ground, but I was called upon last night
to give an opinion of a rule interpretation, and I would like opinions
from any more experienced players.

(I'm sure I've seen an answer to this in the FAQ, but my copy of this got 
wiped, so if you've got a copy of the Bellman FAQ, with the 1988 Congress
amendments, please mail me a copy).

What is the position of the L.U. (London Underground) stations which are
now closed?.
  I was asked for my opinion of the legality of the move Goodge St. (Northern)
 to Down Street (Picadilly) , claiming Leicester Square (Northern/Picadilly) as
 the interchange. The previous move had been Goodge St. to Archway, successfully
 challenged as ineligible (following Reed, 1973).

Down Street (between Green Park and Hyde Park Corner) is one of a number of
stations now closed, such as British Museum (between Tottenham Court Rd.
and Holborn). Unsurprisingly, the player attempting this move claimed that as
the platforms still exist, they could be accessed from a train stopped at
this "station" in an emergency, and as such the move should be allowed.
There was some dissent from the rest of the players, who felt that this move
wasn't legal, and I ended up being asked to advise.
I was unsure which path to allow, as one could either follow the opinion of
Charles (1975), or Radley (1986), and I couldn't remember which way the 1988
Congress had decided (albeit by majority vote).

Can anyone help?.

Following on from this : Is there any difference for a station that was never
opened to the public .... such as Bull & Bush (Northern). 
(This was never opened as a station, and is rumoured to be a control point
for L.U., which was available in case of flooding of the tunnels, before the
Thames flood barrier was built. I learned of its existence from "War Plan U.K.",
by the investigative journalist Duncan Campbell, who describes some of the 
tunnels under London.)
its position can be seen by where the tunnel walls change to brick on their
inner aspect, north of Hampstead, shortly before leaving the tunnel, before
Golders Green. (The station is named after the nearby Bull and Bush pub, of 
London music hall fame).

Does any-one know of rulings regarding this station, and of any similar
British Rail "closed" or "never opened" stations?.

All advice gratefully received, (post or e-mail me as zchag12@ucl.ac.uk or
bsalkin@nyx.cs.du.edu),

Barry.

--
------ Obligatory net signature follows :  Beware the mutating dyslexia vrius!
PGP 2.0 public key available on request.
Medical students do it in an anatomically correct manner :-)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: Richard Thomas - STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Subject: Advanced Reading.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:14:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

Indeed the Lausanne papers are an excellent introduction to the rules and manne
rs of playing M.C. The best book for the advanced player appears to be (i menti
oned it in an article on the 18 Nov - Re: Restrictions on Tube Stations.) the c
ollection of works by Duttine Green. These have been brought together by the pu
blishers, Mornington Press, as 'Slippage and Reverse Crossover - The Easy Way (
For the Advanced Crescenter)'.
 This is a fascinating tome and it is obvious that the author spent many happy
hours traversing the Underground to cook up some of the best,craftiest an just
plain devious moves ever seen in a game of M.C.
 *Alas* I have mislaid my copy and am hoping that someone who has the book can
let me know of its availability.

   Yours with Samantha and an elecric hatstand,

             /stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (JANET Address)  \   aka Richard
            / stucs204@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk (INTERNET Address)\

  #only Willie can bulge to advantage#
From: Richard Thomas - STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Strike! II
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:51:26 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

Under the J.Knapp addendum to the 1977 Armstrong rules I hereby second the tran
sference to buses for the purpose of the game.

                  Richard Thomas

stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (JANET)
stucs204@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk (INTERNET)

#and may god help us#
From: ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian James Davies)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: "closed" station rule query.
Date: 20 Nov 1992 11:01:42 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak23.doc.ic.ac.uk
Keywords: closed, station, rule, Down Street.

Clive Jones writes:
>"Tardis" stations are, (IMCC 1992 Summer compiled list):
>  Hounslow Town, South Acton, White City (H&C line), Uxbridge Road, Lords,
>  Marlborough Road, Down Street (Mayfair), Brompton Road, King William Street,
>  British Museum, York Road, City Road, St. Mary's (Whitechapel Road),
>  Blake Hall, Northfields & Little Ealing, Osterley & Spring Grove,
>  Hammersmith (Grove Road), Wood Lane, South Kentish Town, Park Royal and
>  Twyfford Abbey.

That's what I like. Lots of facts jampacked into a concise article.

So, back to my original question....

	Has anybody seen West India Quay recently?

Love and a 7 day zone 3 travelcard.

Poddy


-- 
Poddy Paradise. aka Ian J. Davies. 		ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk
Imperial College, Prince Consort Road, London SW7 2AZ, England 

Yankees in the noose, hang loose, kid, lift the lid on the crimes they did
From: pck@castle.ed.ac.uk (P C Knox)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Flooding at Oxford Circus..
Date: 23 Nov 92 09:30:28 GMT
Distribution: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Organization: Edinburgh University

Bad news chaps.
As of this morning, Oxford Circus is closed because of flooding. This
adds further choas as with MC also closed an alternative set of
subsiduary rules come into force, notably those that deal with diagonal
straddling, and the status of Northern Line interchanges. 
It would be only fair to warn those new to the game to observe carefully
the moves of old hands to familiarise themselves with the new
procedures.

Paul
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: jon@alex.com (Jonathan Heitler)
Subject: Re: Moving to Barking
Keywords: Why?
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd
Apparently-To: mail2news@gate.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:28:07 +0000

In article <1egblfINNcuf@oak22.doc.ic.ac.uk>, ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk
(Ian James Davies) writes:
|> Jonathan Heitler writes:
|> >I have just noticed that in none of the recorded tournament games
|> >for the last twenty years (all the games I have) has anybody EVER
|> >moved to Barking.

|> I think the answer can be found in the 1971 Rulebook. Namely, section 7,
|> article 4, which states: "No player may ever move to either Barking or 
|> Surrey Docks from any station apart from Blake Hall, Stanmore or St. Mary's
|> (should it ever reopen). "

I am afraid I do not think this can be the right answer. My 1988 rulebook
does not mention that rule and when I consulted my annotated cross-reference
(by M. T Bailles - an excellent work), he said that that was one of the
rules that was rescinded in the 1975 symposium. It suffered the same fate
as many of the rules created in 1971. The reason given for so many of
the 1971 decisions being overturned was that the UK was suffering a
general thinking overload having just been decimalised.
From: mark-r@spec0.ee.man.ac.uk (Mark Robinson (JO PhD))
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: URGENT! - Suspend games NOW
Keywords: strikes, SPR
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:40:24 GMT
Organization: Dept Electrical and Electronic Eng, Manchester University, UK

Urgent-

Some people may not be aware that as from next week, the
London Undeground system is likely to be crippled by strike
action. This may have serious consequences for players of
Spacio-Temporal Realism rules, which are becoming very
popular now (as a previous poster commented).

Since the SRT rules state that all moves must be accompanied
with a time/date and must be possible at that time, 
unscrupulous(sp) players may, in months to come, dispute
moves since it would be unlikely that they could be completed
in the alloted time during a strike.

I see nothing in the standard SRT texts about this, and so it
may be advisable to suspend SRT games until after the
industrial action.

Mark
mark-r@spec0.ee.man.ac.uk



--
______________________________________________________________________
Multimedia Information Systems Lab | I'm a slug and I'm alright
Dept. Of Electrical Engineering    | That's 'cos I'm hermaphrodite
University of Manchester           | It bothers me not that I have no
Dover St. Manchester. M13 9PL      |                     friends
England                            | 'Cos I have fun with both my ends
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Subject: Re :Restrictions on Tube Stations.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:42:18 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

I have to agree with the views on the Pummer v Bezmertinii match. That was a ve
ry tricky move to play and could have led to the reverse JUNKIN straddle across
 the Circle line had the move not paid off.
The Lausanne papers are an excellent introduction to the game, if a little heav
y going (2000 pages), if you wish to pick up the finer tactics of the game.If,
however, you are looking to play the more advanced moves like the Garden-Crier
Fairlop/Sever Sisters reverse-straddle-interchange, which is best played with t
he Flood-Warning with Embankment Slippage rules then the best text to find is t
he collection of works -'Slippage and Reverse Crossover - The Easy Way (for the
 advanced Crescenter)' by Duttine Green published by the Mornington Press.
  The drawback to this book is that it doesnot yet contain some of the trickier
 moves brought about by the creation of a) the Jubilee Line Extension
                                        b) the Docklands Light Railway

although I have heard that Green is planning to include both these routes in hi
s new book.
ps I have lost my copy of  Greens book. Can anyone loan me a copy as I am dying
 to try out the very rare 'TRIPPLE STRADDLE WITH BAXTERS REVERSE' - well wicked
 and never fails.

       e-mail me on stucs204@uk.ac.bham           \  aka - Richard
                 or stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090    \
From: ccaajrl@ucl.ac.uk (Jack Levy)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Restriction to tube stations
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:30:13 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

Recent correspondence on this newsgroup (mention of platforms, lines
etc) seems to imply that the only legal moves in Mornington Crescent
are London tube stations.  This can either be due to plain ignorance
(which I can't believe), or a deliberate attempt to mislead those who
are unfamiliar with the rules.  Only in the most restricted rules is
play limited to the tube network.  In the Plummer v Bezmertnii match at
the Lausanne international congress, the most beautiful move was that
from Cheyne Walk to Frith Street, neither of which are tube stations.

By the way, what is the shortest game that consists solely of
non-stations (excluding Mornington Crescent itself, of course)?  I'm
sure I saw this posted before, but can't remember the answer.

Jack Levy,
Computer Centre,
University College London.
E-mail: ccaajrl@ucl.ac.uk
From: ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian James Davies)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: rules query
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:43:22 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak26.doc.ic.ac.uk

Clive Jones writes:
>*Strictly* speaking, under rule 3 (remember rule 3? You know, from the
>*original* ruleset?), rules which are inapplicable are discounted in their
>entirety. Now, the game was originally "Grove Road", and was only later changed
>to Mornington Crescent (Amendment 17, in 1911). Therefore, we should be
>disregarding amendment 17, and playing to Grove Road instead. Grove Road
>station is now Hammersmith, H&C line platforms.

Not strictly true, I'm afraid. I think your copy the rules has an extra word
in them. The Station was Hammersmith, The Grove, and was a curving platform
above the grove, linking the H&C to the District & Piccadilly lines. 

Part of the viaduct still remains on the D&P line approaching Hammersmith
Eastbound, but all traces of the station have long gone. 

Just like to keep some semblance of factual acuracy around.

Love

Poddy.

-- 
Poddy Paradise. aka Ian J. Davies. 		ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk
Imperial College, Prince Consort Road, London SW7 2AZ, England 

Yankees in the noose, hang loose, kid, lift the lid on the crimes they did
From: jwh@mother.sodor (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: I Sorry I havn't a Clue
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:06:03 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@mother.sodor
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

In article 2570@infodev.cam.ac.uk, rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) writes:
> In article <1992Nov13.153303@cs.bham.ac.uk>, jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin) writes:
> |> This returns with a new series tommorrow (saturday) on radio 4 (UK) at 12.25 GMT
> |> As it had been said before Radio 4 long wave can be received in Europe but I
> |> believe this program will be on the world service in a few months at arround 3.30
> |> am GMT.
> 
> Actually, it was _last_ saturday (repeated on Monday at 1830).  But
> then, since they didn't play MC, I presume you're ignoring that
> edition...

Well actually I posted that before the staturday :-) but never mind perhaps you have a slow news feed or more likely you had something better to do that read news.

			James
From: gwilliam@crc.ac.uk (Gary Williams x3294)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: New Game
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:35:09 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre

In article <1992Nov16.102643.10371@alex.com> bryan@alex.com (Bryan Boreham) writes:
>I play Turnham Green
>
>Note that this is not illegal because it was both late evening 
>_and_ on a Sunday when the move was chosen.

Oh, clever, very clever.
I like that a lot.
This guy is one to watch, folks!



-- 
GARY WILLIAMS,  Computing Services Section,  Janet:       G.Williams@UK.AC.CRC
MRC-CRC & Human Genome Mapping Centre,       Internet:    G.Williams@CRC.AC.UK
Watford Rd, HARROW, Middx, HA1 3UJ, UK
Tel 081-869 3294   Fax 081-423 1275   
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Subject: Re: New Game
Organization: James Cook University
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:28:36 GMT

In <1992Nov13.150204@cs.bham.ac.uk> dvm@cs.bham.ac.uk (David V Murphy) writes:
>> Time = 9:00 AM 
>> Day = Saturday
>> Place = Notting Hill Gate

>Bearing in mind that the Cholmondsley variation is thought
>ungentlemanly in Winter, I'll risk a reverse hop and go for
>	Ladbroke Grove

  It may be ungentlemanly in winter, but it's not winter yet. Thought you
could get that one past us, didn't you? I shall call your bluff and barge on
to Swansea Avenue. Ungentlemanly indeed!


John
From: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: rules query
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:03:42 GMT
Organization: 6am Digital Playground
Telephone-Messages: +44 223 33 4900
Address: Christ's College, Cambridge CB2 3BU, ENGLAND.
X-Furry-Character: Gerald_Duck

In article <1e7u0aINNdjr@oak26.doc.ic.ac.uk>, ijd@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian James Davies) writes:
> Not strictly true, I'm afraid. I think your copy the rules has an extra word
> in them. The Station was Hammersmith, The Grove, and was a curving platform
> above the grove, linking the H&C to the District & Piccadilly lines. 

Er... I checked my facts against "The London Underground - A Diagrammatic
History", published by Douglas Rose (available from the London Transport
Museum, amongst other places, and an excellent source of information).

The full station name is there given as "Hammersmith (Grove Road)", opened
1/10/1877, and closed 31/12/1906.

--Clive.
From: nrp@csug3.cs.reading.ac.uk ("Silent vagrants" Neilski)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: STRIKE?
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:57:23 GMT
Reply-To: nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: University of Reading

I hereby propose that, under the terms of the 1977 Armstrong modification,
all current games be suspended from tomorrow if the proposed London
Underground strike takes place, and transferred onto bus routes.

I need a seconder.

-- neilski

-- 
 RADIO CRACKER - 103.6 FM  \--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------\ 
Who would listen to a radio station like this one?  Let's look at the evidence.
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: New Game
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd
Apparently-To: mail2news@news.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:26:43 +0000

I play Turnham Green

Note that this is not illegal because it was both late evening 
_and_ on a Sunday when the move was chosen.

Bryan Boreham.
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: I Sorry I havn't a Clue
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:33:03 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

This returns with a new series tommorrow (saturday) on radio 4 (UK) at 12.25 GMT
As it had been said before Radio 4 long wave can be received in Europe but I
believe this program will be on the world service in a few months at arround 3.30
am GMT.



			James
From: tgrupe@watnxt11.ucr.edu (Todd E. Grupe)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Spelling Error
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:52:21 GMT


It should be spelled "Mornington Crescent."

Does anyone care?

TG
--
tgrupe@watserv.ucr.edu

generic .sig
generic .sig
generic .sig

What are you reading this for?
From: A.M.Wall@newcastle.ac.uk (A.M.Wall)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: New Game
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:03:59 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU

Dorset Street
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: thompsmr@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: Closed Stations - The solution
Organization: Aston University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL241235]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:29:16 GMT

STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 wrote:
: The subject of closed stations sent me thinking to the report I read on the 198
: 0 game Plimmer v Dennis.I believe that Bank was closed at the time but E.Plimm
: er (under the Wild-card *below* the diagonal rules) invoked the Enterprise Tran
: slocation rule whereby the station is said to exist in an open state in the fou
: rth dimension and so the move to Bank was allowed by the adjudicator. The only
: problem with this rule is that the ramifications of using it early on in the ga
: me have not been fully explored yet - Indeed Plimmer lost the game because Denn
: is employed the crafty STRADDLING REVERSE JUNKIN which was a moment of pure ins
: piration.
: In Suede Telephone style - stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (Janet address)
:                         or stucs204@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk (Internet Address)
: 
:            aka Richard    \  What is it.Its a white hole.A white hole.What is
:                           \  it.Its a white hole.A white hole.What is it.Its..
:                            \ ........etc.etc

	Indeed, this is a rather daft rule, because if you extrapolate it to 
it's extreme then you will see that you could actually go to stations that
*haven't been built yet*, which is obviously terribly unsportsmanlike.

	I've looked this up in the relavent literature, and in the papers of
the 1974 convention in Sydney the loser of the Ferguson-Hendy match of June '73
(Ferguson) challenged the result after Hendy had made a move to Tate Gallery
(where there is as yet no station), and then when challenged on this fact (they
were playing a strict stations only game) produced the necessary demographic 
statistics to "prove" that there would be, one day.
	It seems likely that the convention executive would have ruled this move
dreadfully unsporting but for the intervention of Hurricane Miriam which
literally "blew away" the final weekend of that conference prevented this.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Mark Thompson, Aston Uni, Dept. Elec. Eng   ThompsonMR@uk.ac.aston.spock  |
| "PC Owner?",'Yes',"Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each."|
-------------------Disclaimer: It was like that when I got here----------------