From: misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra)
Subject: Re: SEX
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Yale University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:29:29 GMT

In article <1egoa5INN89t@menudo.uh.edu>, mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
wrote:
> 
> Attention! Not for the mild-mannered or the comically inclined.
> 
> Interesting events in my life and my friends lives have brought 
> up some questions.  I feel that I should share these with you all in 
> hope of getting opinions.  Of course, you all may have posted concerning
> this particular matter in the past.  I appologize for redundancy.
> 
> I am taking this matter seriously, definetly not in fun or pun.

Me too.  (Look out!  It's a woman talking dirty! All right!)

> 1.	Is sex before marraige right/wrong?
> 	If it is wrong, Why?

Is it right or wrong? Yes.  It is up to each individual, according to
his/her OWN conscience, to determine in all things what is right and what
is wrong.  Societies may reach consensus about the rightness/wrongness of
certain acts, especially those that affect passive or non-active
non-consenting individuals, like murder and rape.  On the whole, if  two 
(or more) mature individuals EACH decide that they would like to have sex
together, then it is "right".  If even one of the individuals in question
does not feel it is right, then for that person it is "wrong" and hence it
is "wrong" for all those involved to carry out that act.

On a tangent:  I believe it is wrong to knowingly expose your partner to
danger in sex (pregnancy or disease), even if that sex is consensual.

> 2.	If sex is wrong, is it wrong for guys and gals?
> 	If only wrong for one, why not the other? Hypocricy?

As far as I am aware, men and women are distinguishable on a conscientious
level.  Each sex has the moral and intellectual capacity to make decisions,
and both "guys and gals" can have sex before marriage or decide not to - I
care not a whit.

> 3.	Why would you have /not have sex before marraige?

As you can guess from above, I would engage or abstain according to what I
thought was right for me in a particular situation.  Passion is not an easy
subject to deal with on a purely theoretical level.

> 4.	What is Sex?  Is sex the phyical act of fucking or the
> 	act of making love?  Is one right before marraige and
> 	the other not?

Semantics.  One person's image of "making love" all night is another
person's "fuck".  To the extent that it is logistically impossible to
expose oneself to every conceivable definition on this, I would suggest
that each of us reaches his/her own definition of each of these ideas based
on both dreams and experiences..  In my mind, it is possible both for
strangers to make love, and for lovers to fuck.  There's a difference in my
mind, but that's only IMO, not yours.  (Although you may agree).

Marriage is a nebulous concept.  Some people fall in love as little
children, marry and grow old together; some meet only during the wedding,
marry, and grow old together.  Both types will engage in intercourse on the
wedding night.  How they view that act is up to them.		

Moreover, I am loath to tie sex to marriage because there are many couples
in our society who make lifelong (which is longer than many marriages)
commitments of friendship and love to each other and _cannot_ get married -
namely, homosexuals.  I have seen life partners (or even just steady
"boyfriends" and "girlfriends") with mutual respect and commitment to one
another that is truly awe-inspiring;  if all marriages could as respectful
and dedicated as these partnerships, this society would be a far more
humanistic place.  

> 5.	Is there dishonor in sex before marraige?  Why?

For some people, yes, because that is the conclusion they reach after
viewing the issue in the context of their personal morals and through the
lens of conscience.   For me, see above.

> 6.	Do you care if the person you marry is /is not a virgin?

Do _I_ care, personally?  No.  I care much more about whether or not he (as
I am a woman) respects me, and other women in general, and whether he is
willing to commit the effort to make our partnership last, and willing to
be a father who is active in our children's lives.  I believe you can tell
as much if not more about a man from the way he acts toward his mother as
you can from the number of entries in his "little black book".  (Same of
course, with a woman and her male relatives.)

> 7.	Would you marry a "slut"?  Why? Why Not?  What is a slut?
> 	Someone who has slept with someone else before maraige or
> 	someone who sleeps with many people or someone who fucks
> 	many people?
> 

"Slut" is a social construction, usually indicating a female, and most
often when I have heard the term used it has been in derogatory reference
to a woman who has had many sexual partners (while a man with many partners
is called a "stud").  I don't think, however, that I've ever heard the term
used in a situation in which the person saying it had any moral standing or
right to make that judgment (since I have a hard time finding any such
right anyway).  

Would I marry a "slut"?  Obviously, in choosing a husband, I would consider
many things, e.g. whether or not he could be in the same room with my
parents without the house exploding.  (That issue is not determinative for
me, but it is very important.  Just for me.)   Generally, though, what
other people say or think is not as important as what I can see with my own
eyes.  People who sink to the level of four-letter labels don't tend to
look very deeply into a person's character, and I can't imagine that I
wouldn't marry someone over a label I am loath to use myself.  If somehow I
got it into my own head that someone was a "slut", then I would clearly be
making a derogatory judgment about that person, which is no way to start a
marriage. 

> I have many other questions, but I figure if you all are interested,
> you will bring them up.
> 
> I have a stance, but am questioning it.  Of course, there are a lot
> of gray areas.  Please realize, having grown up with conservative
> parents, I was of course raised with the ideal that SEX (Love Making
> as well as fucking) were meant for after marraige.  As I grew older,
> I developed my own opinions as to what was right and wrong.

> Puneet

Would you like to share them?  Your OWN opinions, that is?


       /-                 Devjani Mishra      misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
      /   /               New Haven, CT          diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu
  ___/  _  _   _  ___           
 /  /   /   | /  /  /     "Women are repeatedly accused of taking things
/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_      personally. I cannot see any other honest way of
                           taking them." - Marya Mannes
                           
Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:1226 soc.culture.indian:37380