HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:03:36 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.105551.1@wharton.upenn.edu> millerl@wharton.upenn.edu 
writes:
>>It wasn't a lie, it was a quote from your previous note. Just because
>>you edited it out of this note doesn't mean you didn't write it. Damn
>>it, Bruce, you must think we're really stupid!
>>
>Find the original quote, post it, and I hereby sware I will immediately
>withdraw from news.groups and forget my proposal.  You are either 
>misremembering, or fabricating.

    I'm sorry that I don't have the full attribution line, but this is a
portion of a post that I made in response to one of Bruce's posts about
his experience.

cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>The discussions going on in rec.games.frp.* are no more intelligent, or
>moronic, or focussed, or unfocussed, than those going on in the Fido RPG
>echos.  What hit me like a brick when I got involved with .frp is how
>incredibly *the same* the newsgroups were to the echos I've been reading
>for years.

>Except.....
>There were no campaigns.  A part of FRP echoing which I expected, and had
>become totally used to, was not here.  Knowing as I did how it enhanced
>the Fido echos I read, I decided to propose the creation of a newsgroup
>for campaigns.

    It isn't the kind of exact quote that Loren was talking about, but
you do say here that there are no campaign discussion in r.g.frp.*, and
I still question how you can make such statements when you yourself
have only read the groups for the last 2 months.

--
-Brian V. Hughes
	"You're built too low! The fast ones go right over your head."
					   --Foghorn Leghorn
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:02:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.212059.2221@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:

>In article <7770@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)  
>writes:
> 
>> It is as close as we'll ever get to the expressed will of the net.
>
>An idea has been proposed that would make it *closer* to the will of the  
>net but you shot it down under the guise of a miniscule increase in  
>bandwidth usage.

Eh?  I don't see him saying any such thing.  I *do* see him saying,
however, that kowtowing to the readers of rec.music.synth who feel
that they were denied the chance to vote will set a bad precedent as
far as the newsgroup creation procedures are concerned.

In fact, I also see quite a favorable reaction to the subject of
discussing whether the creation guidelines should be modified.  No one
seems intent on discussing just that, but rather whether the creation
of rec.music.makers.synth should be held up.

(I also don't see anyone explaining why the name would be a *bad*
one.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 11 Nov 1992 20:34:59 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <BxKsnF.DJL@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>I disagree.  A slight delay on a post which would probably come out every
>two weeks or less is not signifigant.

Have you actually ever read r.g.f.archives?  The posts there come out
only about every two weeks, and it is UNmoderated.  Moderation
invariably makes things slower.

>Player moves are made in e-mail.

You have changed your mind on this point so often that I forget your
most recent decision.  Not only should player moves be made in E-mail,
so should all parts of the actual campaign.  The only thing that
should be posted to r.g.f.archives should be story-like interludes.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:25:46 GMT

In article <BxEyFw.8rr@news.orst.edu> stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John  
Stanley) writes:
> 
> How dare you ignore the entire proceedings and then whine about how the
> result wasn't fair and you want to waste everyone's time by doing it
> over. 
> 
I wouldn't have ignored it if I'd known about it. That's the whole issue -   
is there a better way for people to be informed. Doesn't seem like a bad  
goal.

> >As much to ask as making the subject lines clear. 
> 
> "RFD". "CFV". Very clear.
> 
To some, not to others.

> 
> If I received a California ballot labelled Nevada, I would certainly
> read it very carefully to see how it affected me and why it was sent to
> me. If, after reading it, I decided that I didn't care about anything on
> it, I would not whine about how the results of the things I didn't care
> enough to vote about turned out.
> 

How about if you saw hundreds of ballots a week, for all 50 states? Would  
you take the time to read them all? And a lot of things that LOOKED like  
ballots were actually political commentary advertisements?

> I probably WOULD vote to rename California, however.

Well the hierarchy MIGHT make sense! :-)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: rec.music.synth (again)
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:56:10 GMT

In article <97095@netnews.upenn.edu> rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich  
Kulawiec) writes:
> In article <2940003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> bparrish@hpcc01.corp.hp.com  
(William Parrish) writes:
> >(1) One person said that if a CFV appears in this group, that it  
affects
> >this group... not so... there are also a couple of CFVs in the  
non-expired
> >stuff that is for REC.MUSIC.REGGAE (I think that's spelled right).
> 
> I should point out that the currently-posted CFV's for rec.music.reggae
> are *not* valid CFV's for a number of reasons: one of those reasons is
> that they were not posted to news.announce.newgroups.  A second reason  
is
> that at least one copy of the CFV's does not specify a voting period; a
> third is that these CFV's do not seem to have been preceded by a CFD
> and a discussion.  The author of these CFV's has been apprised of this
> via e-mail; his response was, in part, "Oh, well".  I believe I've seen
> a second set of rec.music.reggae CFV's which *does* specify a voting  
period,
> but still were not posted to news.announce.newgroups.
>
 
Ah - but these WERE posted right? More ammo for the assertion that CFV's  
can look like "junk mail". These were apparantly.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:21:25 GMT

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
> 1. All articles in n.a.newgroups have "Followup-To: news.groups".
>    No matter whether if you subscribe to news.groups -- if you
>    follow up to an n.a.newgroups article, your message _will_ go
>    to news.groups, and you _will_ be heard.  Er, read.  :-)

That doesn't take into account the new netter (which outnumbers the
old netter by a lot). 

>    they discover a discussion that is worth their time.  And
>    seeing an article in n.a.newgroups is a big _clue_ that reading
>    news.groups might be a good idea.  I am not required to cater
>    to people who didn't get that clue, and who therefore missed
>    out on the r.m.s/r.m.m discussion.

This argument winds us both down the road of me calling you elitist
and you calling me clueless. Again, most new people have trouble keeping
up in their own interest groups. Not all of us are admins that have to spend
an hour a day reading news. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Compassion will cure more sins than condemnation.
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy,rec.music.synth
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Music Group Reorg Disagreement (was Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<BxG2xx.AAy@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:18:12 GMT

SN>  == S. Newman <snewman@ccu.umanitoba.ca> 
KSD> == ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:

 KSD> Write one 56-character subject line that will sufficiently inform
 KSD> the readers of the following groups that a change is taking place
 KSD> when it is crossposted to all of them.  Be sure to include the
 KSD> letters RFD: or CFV:, whichever is appropriate, and also the
 KSD> proposed name of the new groups, rec.music.makers.*.  Leave room
 KSD> for prepending the characters '2ND ' and '3RD ' -- leaving you
 KSD> with four less characters to work with.

 KSD> news.announce.newgroups 
 KSD> news.groups
 KSD> rec.music.makers
 KSD> rec.music.synth
 KSD> alt.guitar
 KSD> alt.guitar.bass
 KSD> alt.guitar.tab

 SN> No problem:

 SN>  "CFV: 2nd WARNING, We are going to change YOUR newsgroup."

Which one?  news.groups?  news.announce.newgroups?  Is my Subject
display for n.a.n going to look like this?

2014: [50:baz@bar.foo] CFV: 3rd WARNING, we're changing YOUR group
2015: [192:bar@foo.baz] 2nd RFD: renaming YOUR newsgroup
2016: [30:foo@bar.baz] RFD: possible mucking about with YOUR yes YOUR favorite

Dave had plenty of time to post a message, perhaps with a subject like:

****** HEY SYNTHERS, CRAZED LOONS TRYING TO KILL OUR NEWSGROUP ******

He didn't.

During the Second SF Reorg Vote, a number of people posted for (and
against) suggestions in various affected groups, including the
alt.fandom groups (which weren't listed on the Subject: line then
either).  And people voted.  And most people accepted the result.  Why
couldn't Dave do the same thing here?
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
Xref: sparky news.groups:21344 news.admin.policy:332
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: A question, a comment
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:52:48 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: GSP Whitewater Slalom Racing Team

In article <1992Nov12.052045.3880@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>It harmed the users of the group by causing people to drop out. 

There is no proof of this -- can there can't be, because there is no
way to accurately measure the number of subscribers to a newsgroup
with a granularity sufficient to show such changes.  (I'm aware
of arbitron et.al., but my experience with it is that it gives
order-of-magnitude numbers, but no better.)

>>Will sites drop the group because of the name change? 
>
>Sites will have done so when the gateway to SYNTH-L drops.

Funny you should mention that.  Joe McMahon has *already*
voluntarily severed the link between rec.music.synth and SYNTH-L.
I wrote to one of the people who volunteered to set up a new
link between rec.music.makers.synth and SYNTH-L, and got back
the following (which is quoted with permission):

-----
From: Jim McIntosh <JIM@american.edu>
Subject:      Re: Looking for a new gateway maintainer
To: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu>,
        Bob Sloane <sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>

On Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:36:10 EST Rich Kulawiec said:
>I think the best thing would be to gateway both rec.music.synth and
>rec.music.makers.synth to the synth-l list, if it's possible to do that
>in such a way that articles crossposted to both only get sent to synth-l
>once.  (I suspect this is true, but my knowledge of this sort of
>gateway is sketchy.)  Coming the other direction, I think it would be
>best to gateway synth-l to rec.music.makers.synth, since
>rec.music.synth is currently scheduled to go away in three months.
>(That's subject to change pending the outcome of further discussion,
>votes, and so on, but it's the way things stand right now.)

Joe McMahon is the listowner of SYNTH-L and has requested that the
gateway between rec.music.synth and his list be terminated. Since we
gateway lists only with the permission of the listowner, the gateway has
now been removed. SYNTH-L, rec.music.synth and rec.music.makers.synth are
now three totally separate entities with no connection between them.

Someone might now set up a *new* list to allow mail-only people to
participate in rec.music.makers.synth, if they felt there was a demand
for this type of access. I have not received a request from anyone for a
gateway between a new mailing list and the new newsgroup, but, as Bob
points out, the gateway function could be done anywhere.

Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
-----end-excerpt-from-Jim-----

As far as I can see, there's no technical reason why SYNTH-L
couldn't be connected to rec.music.makers.synth, a move which
would make the Usenet name change invisible to Bitnetters.

>1) Less membership.

Unproven.

>2) Less distribution.

Trivially fixable, if Joe McMahon and others allow it.

>3) A flamewar.

Started by you.

---Rsk

Xref: sparky news.groups:21313 news.admin.policy:323
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 12 Nov 92 05:15:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: jato.1992Nov12.051526.3794
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA

rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>Yes what about them, what do they lose? Exactly what is so redicaly different
>about rec.music.synth that no other names can be used?

If that's true, then why change it at all?

Better yet, let's change EVERY newsgroup name this year...we can
hold 2500 votes and arbitrarily rename every group so that there's
a ".d" at the end...after all all of them are discussion groups. 

Well?
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

   Who are the learned? Those who put into practice what they know. 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Discussion request: Keeping soc.religion.* flat
Reply-To: heikki.suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
	<1992Nov10.042436.28854@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
	<1992Nov10.225423.3753@muddcs.claremont.edu>
	<BJORN.B.LARSEN.92Nov11111514@engels.delab.sintef.no>
	<1992Nov11.182634.17606@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:44:34 GMT

>>>>> On 11 Nov 92 18:26:34 GMT, rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) said:

Nabeel> no solution at all. One can then say to keep the rec.sport.* 
Nabeel> hierarchy flat. Since there might be controversy whether a sport has
Nabeel> a sub-sport or not? For another example there two newsgroups called:
Nabeel> rec.sport.hockey
Nabeel> rec.sport.hockey.field
Nabeel> Now, I may suggest that the rec.sport.hockey.* heirarchy should be
Nabeel> kept flat. Because I personally don't consider ice hockey as hockey
Nabeel> at all. To me the only true hockey is field hockey and I can debate
Nabeel> on that for lenths. (Remember this is my persanal view).

Those groups should be rec.sport.field-hockey and rec.sport.ice-hockey.

Nabeel> Another example:
Nabeel> The same then should go for soc.culture.* heirarchy groups. Why don't you
Nabeel> suggest to keep it flat as well and remove the groups:
Nabeel> soc.culture.african.american 
Nabeel> and
Nabeel> soc.culture.asian.american

Two bad group names, very very misleading! 
soc.culture.african-american and soc.culture.asian-american would be
much better names (yes, I know the 14 character limit). Maybe
soc.culture.usa.african and soc.culture.usa.asian or are those terms
used in Canada too?

-Heikki
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: slendt@unomaha.edu (Steven Lendt)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.dcom.sys.wellfleet
Keywords: bridge, router, wellfleet, RFD
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:28:09 GMT

In article <BxIHKw.9E@uunet.uu.net> tbooth@netcom.com (Todd Booth) writes:

>This is a formal Request for Discussion on the creation of a new newsgroup
>called "comp.dcom.sys.wellfleet" (not moderated).

>This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have 
>interest in the discussion about the new group; follow-up discussion will
>take place in "news.groups". Suggestions, comments or problems may also
>be emailed to me at <tbooth@netcom.com or tbooth@wellfleet.com>.

<stuff deleted>

I'd be very interested in seeing this news group.
Not moderated sounds like the best method to me.
I would assume that since Wellfleet is taking an interest in
this news group that some of their staff would be willing to
jump in to the discussion from time to time?


>Thanks for your interest !
>-- 
>Todd Booth | Systems Engineer | Wellfleet Communications, Inc | 310 445-8840

 ____________________________________________________________________________
|  Steven Lendt, Campus Network Mgr   |   Internet: slendt@unocdc.unomaha.edu|
|  University of Nebraska at Omaha    |   Bitnet (via gateway):              |
|  Computing and Data Communications  |     slendt%unocdc.unomaha.edu@unlvax1|
|  6001 Dodge Street                  |   Voice Phone (402) 554-2523         |
|  Omaha, NE 68182-0051 USA           |   Fax (402) 554-3475                 |
|  The attention span of a computer is only as long as its electrical cord.  |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Guidelines discussion: RFD
Keywords: RFD, Guidelines
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:12:49 GMT
Organization: negligable

Shoot, I forgot to post to news.groups w/ this!  (1st posted in news.admin):
		-rmh

The (rather large and vociferous) discusison about the rec.music.synth
thing has spawned one legitimate question that I can tell (and, no, I
don't think it should invalidated the outcome of a vote taken under
the guidelines as they stood at the time.  ex post facto and all that...)

Is a msg w/ the subject line "RFD: ...." a sufficiently clear means
of notifying a group about a change that may affect them?  The initials
RFD, CFV etc are clear to the news admins in new.groups who have read
the guidelines and are watching for such things.  But using INITIALS
to try and get the point across to a bunch of musicians that got on
the net to talk about synthesizers may not be clear.

Should the messages that are posted to the affected groups have
more detailed, unobfuscated "Subject:" lines?  e.g. (1/2 :) ) :

	> Subject: Your news group may be renamed!!! Speak up NOW!

		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.



Xref: sparky news.groups:20508 rec.music.makers:10760
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:45:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: gazette.1df3k6INN67u
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.235527.24934@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
> 
> Again...the subject line of the CFV's was unclear. Based upon that
> I suggest a revote. 

Better I suggest you just drop it....the vote passed according to the rules
and guidelines and unless either Dave or Gene call for the revote, I think
you have no case. Let it go.

-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Music Group Reorg Disagreement (was Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored)
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:36:18 GMT

mjp@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Mike Prudence) writes:
>Oh dear.  This is starting to sound like a Monty Python sketch.

STARTING??!?!? Where have *you* been? <grin>

>You can't assume that people know things.

Wow! A thread of common sense. One more time for the benefit of the
elitist admins:

>You can't assume that people know things.

Very good point. 

>That's it.  If you can't accept those points, then you win, if that's
>what you want to hear.  Quite frankly, I give up.  My head is sore
>from bouncing it off the proverbial brick wall.

Perhaps you have a lot more sense that *I* do...or I just have a thick 
skull that bounces...
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Show me a person who really knows what 'good' is, and I will show you that 
the person almost never uses the word.
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.philosophy.language
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:13:56 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <BxIHqC.IK@uunet.uu.net> Rick.Horowitz@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Rick Horowitz) writes:
>The proposal is to create a group with the following parameters:
> 
>Name of group:           sci.philosophy.language
>Mode:                    unmoderated
> 
>Charter:
> 
>Inasmuch as there exist groups like sci.philosophy.tech,
>talk.philosophy.misc, and comp.ai.philosophy which discuss various
>issues not directly relating to philosophy of language, and inasmuch
>as philosophy of language is an important and viable specialization
>within philosophy, I propose the creation of a group for facilitating
>discussion in this area.  Topics for discussion will include
>(minimally) discussions of interest for philosophy of language,
>philosophy of linguistics, theories of meaning and truth, reference,
>pragmatics, speech act theory, intensional semantics, (to some extent)
>language of thought, theories of names, demonstratives, works (past
>and current) in such topics, etc.---all the issues that could be part
>of a serious study of philosophy of language.

My initial reaction was favorable, but a reply-to-a-reply brings up
the existing sci.lang, so:

	How exactly does discussion of the philosophy of language
	differ from discussion of language and linguistics as currently 
	represented by sci.lang?

>   The word "politics" is derived from the word "poly", meaning
>  "many", and the word "ticks", meaning "blood sucking parasites".

an oldie but a goodie:
	
	pro -- prefix denoting advocacy
	con -- prefix denoting opposition

	progress -- advancement, improvement of the current state of affairs
	congress -- .....

		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"186,000 mi/sec.  Not just a good idea, it's the LAW!"