HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nadeem@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Aftab Nadeem)
Subject: Following up on articles .... how do we KILL ?
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 06:27:51 GMT

This post is by Kamran Aftab, e-mail to aftab@mech.eng.mcmaster.ca

All those who are following up on certains topics in general and on the 
Ahmedy issue in particular, ... could you please keep the same title for the
posting so that we (those not interested in the issue, or those that were there
during the last round of the Ahmedy issue) can KILL the thread!

Thanks very much for your co-operation.




-- 
Kamran Aftab 				Stop! before you press that "r" (or R),
aftab@mech.eng.mcmaster.ca		<------- that's my e-mail address!
From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:11:23 GMT
Reply-To: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Organization: Colorado State U. Center for Computer Assisted Engineering.

In article <92094.04542432JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Jafry 
presented himself as gentlemen

Well done Jafry, honestly this is the best post you have written .
At least you are  ready to listen to some one.  In this case the 
someone is specifically a respected Ms .   Keep this attitude I am
damn sure you'll change your image......Stinking    Jamati.
----------------------------------------------------
SOHBAN SHAHID                 e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
Civil Engg. Dept.                       (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
Colorado State University    (303) 224 0397  (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: PINKY FLOYD - Once again! Your serve!
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:53:15 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <1992Apr12.185000.5298@cco.caltech.edu> faryal@torment.ugcs.caltech.edu (Faryal [Pink Floyd] Ghalib) writes:

>God is real, unless declared integer

One of the best ``sig'' I have ever seen.

Nasir.
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: A suggestion for all Muslims
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:54:53 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


I request all the muslims please leave the arguments with Qadianis

that is what one of Mufti told me.  This mofti says, instead of doing 

foolish arguments with Qadianis you better sopend your time in a sensible 

work. This mufti says thes people are not going

to accept your arguments eventhough you are right.  Had they accept they 

would have become muslim, this is not your hadach to make them muslim or

show them the right way to follow.  It was our duty which for which we have

tried our best but it is a Lanat from god to these people, so better leave

these people alone and spend your time in doing something meaningful.  

They want you to have arguments with these people and keep you(Muslim)

bussy in foolish arguments. If our big Ullmas and Muftis have failed to

convense them then how we can do this.  They are from devel (Iblees) family

they will not listen to you. Every time they will say 2+2 = 5.


So it my request for you (Muslims) not to have arguments with these people

any more and if you want to do something for Islam then please do some thing

achieveable or some thing good for Islam.  By doing arguments you are only

vasting your time.  Again it is my equest not to have arguments with Qadianis

and leave them alone.   







Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: My beliefs; III
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:33:58 GMT

ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:

> Here are my beliefs regarding Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
> 
>  1. He was Mujadid of 14th century Hijra.

>  2. His main purpose was  to prove the world the superiority of
>     QURAN. He proved that not a single word or vowel point of 
>    Quran is 'munsookh'. No verse of Quran cancels any other 
>    verse. ( Even Shah Wali-Ullah was not sure about 5 verses 
>    of Quran).

   Have you ever heard about the steps of prohibiting adultery and drinking?
How can he disprove something done by Muhammad?

> 3. He killed the myth of 'Zinda EESA' and proved from Quran 
>    death of Jesus( Christian's God) at the time when
>    India was ruled by CHRISTIANS. 

   Proved from Koran that he died in India? Ooooooooooooh, yessssssss!

>4. He was the promised masiah and Mehdi( as was promised in Hadiths)
>   and confirmed by the signs of the time.

   Was he also Muhammad, Moses, ... and God all in one? End of year sale!
Hadiths about Mahdi (although not very credible) show that he is way before
the Messiah and they are very different people just like you and Munawar!

>5. He was NOT prophet. He was true believer of FINAL prophethood 
>   of Muhammad(PBUH). 
>   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:6408 soc.culture.bangladesh:2381 soc.culture.indian:14248
From: misra@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Yet more excerpts
Date: 13 Apr 1992 14:55:50 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: festus.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <+$dH&y?o6@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>
>Frankly! I do not deal with muslims, just as I do not deal
>with Hindus. In my vocabulary, there is only one thing.
>A citizen of India. We do not care whether he is a muslim,
>a hindu, or a parsi, a christian, or a buddhist, which ever
>name you pick up. Communalization of a society makes a
>law and order problem into a political problem brought
>upon by vested communal political interests. In any roit,
>whether it is the muslim that is killed, or it is a hindu,
>my heart bleeds. I have no distinction in my mind between
>the two.
>...kt


	Thank you for this great posting. I couldnt agree with you more.
After having been in middle of roits and looseing both my muslim and 
hindus friends alike I couldnt agree with you more. People could careless 
who you are it is the governments who try to seperate groups and make 
one feel more important than the other. I have nothing against someone 
being a proud muslim, just like I have nothing against saying that I am a 
proud hindu. I have see that if a country is to make it, it should have 
no distinction... it should be based on ONE LAW-ONE PEOPLE. That is the 
only was you can achive equality for all.
From: khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: For All the Qadianis
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:56:07 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia



Again sorry i can not send you salam.

Mr noor i ask you one thing, do you know that massiah will only be sent

in the land of Arab not in the land of Pakistan. what do you reply for that 

I think it is in the haddith that a Massiha will only be sent in Arab land.

Another question is that, did your Rasool (naoozo billah toba) had any 

Karishma, like "Khawaja Moin-ud-din Chishti (Rahmat ullah Alahe). Even

Hindo who were enemy and are enemy of muslim, respect him. These are only

Hindo who call him "Sultan-e-Hind, which means Loard of India. Is not it

A big example of a great follower of Allah and his Rasool(P B U H).  Did any

one go   against him, even not Hindos. Know i tell you his Karishmas,

There is a big tree of Chick peace (channa) in front of his tomb all the

scientist are surprised to see this and this is the only example in the

world that chick peace has a big shady tree rather than having a small plant.

The chick peace plant is cutt down after every season but this tree is still
 
there for hundreds of the years.

2)  He stoped a following rock with his just one fingure and his horse's foot.

The mark of his horse's foot and his fingure is still there.  That rock 

could have destroyed whole city had he not stoped it. Today also thousand

of Hindo go to visit his Mazar. I think he is the one who saved the Islam

in  India.


  Know i ask you just one question did your Hazoor (naoozo billah toba) have
any 

of these Karishmas. Did he have any respect from non muslims.  Even Muslim

do not respect him. I think your peer can not be equal to his "peeron ki dhool"

I am happy that your peer got the punichment from Allah. Otherwise we was being 

respected by the people other than muslim and would not die in a toilet, 

which was onother punichment from Allah to him.


   TARIQ MOHAMMAD KHAN
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Hum to hain perdes main
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:50:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: juliet.703047057
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Apr8.041501.13374@engr.uark.edu> aq0@engr.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi) writes:
>HER EK BATT PEH KEHTAY HO TUM KEH, "TU KIYA HEI",
>TUMHE KAAHO KEY YEH ANDAZ-E-GUFTAGO KIYA HEI?
>
>aur erz kiya hei...
>
>JALAA HEI JISIM JEHAN, DIL BHE JAL GIYA HOGA!
>KURAD-TE HO JO ABB RAKH, JUS-TAJOO KIYA HEI?
>Amer 

You just stopped short of my eternal favorite (especially recited
before opening the innings..:-))

	   RagooN meiN doRDtay pehrnay kay hum nahiN kail
	   		 Jab aankh hee say na tapka to pHir laho kiya hai

Salman [hum wahaN haiN jihaN say hum ko bhi; kuch hamari khabr nahiN ati] Azhar

-- 
 I must, with emotional fire, burn or illume myself
 I must, with the heat of passion, melt or sublime myself
 I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
 I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar
From: fmbutt@mrbt.sw.stratus.com (Farooq Butt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Qadiani/non-Qadiani war. Ceasefire ? Please.
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:31:12 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <sdso0Y200WAoQ1r0lw@andrew.cmu.edu> sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai) writes:
...a long article putting down "organized" religion deleted...

Pillai-jee: 

I concur that arguments of Ahmadiya/vs. non-Ahmadiya are pretty much
futile BUT much of your article seems to be a blatant "secular,
humanist" anti-religion diatribe.  While I do not like fanatacism in
any area of human endavor, I part company with you when you claim that
"organized religion" is wholly bad.  In fact, "organized" religion has
been one of the greatest, if not THE greatest civilizing force of
mankind.  True, that religious conflicts have led to much
"khoon-kharaba" BUT I would very strongly contend that such conflicts
are part and parcel of being HUMAN, if we don't kill each other over
religion, then there's always food, money, women, men, children,
golden idols... etc.  Given this sad background, scapegoating religion
seems a tad disingenuous to me.  Humans are vicious and that 
is a fundamental part of our nature.  When we feel threatend, we 
attack.  Just view all the extremely nasty and insulting 
articles recently posted here making fun of people's holy scriptures/
persons.

Religion and faith were the first things mankind thought about after
his belly was full.  Why am I here ? Who created me ?  These are
profound questions that "organized" religion has attempted to answer
throughout the ages.  Granted, people probably asked these questions
to themselves in a cave first.  But I would contend that it was the
synergy of large groups of people talking about these issues and
discussing divine revelations that led to real enlightenment.  Just as
science does not progress without social interaction, neither does
religion.  Sitting all alone and claiming that your faith alone is all
you need is missing the point.  Now, please understand the distinction
between social interaction and social victimization.  While I do
believe that religion should be a social activity, I do not think that
religious folks should become unnecessarily cliquish or holier than
thou about their faiths.  Civility is very important if
religion/faith/deen is to be anything other than a battering ram.


fmb



-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re maindki ko zukaam. Take some advil
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:35:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: 32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 'Maindki ko zukam'


>Baiwaqoofo, first find out iman, belief and faith
>then u will understand pardah.  I remember one of brother told one hindu to rea
>d the book of Maulana Maudoodi on specific issue and later wrote that it will h
>elp him to understand Islam.  No.  Give him Quran with meaning to understand it
>Prophet Mohammed (S) used to explain the religion with explanation and verse
>s of Holy Quran.  This is the real way.  Salam. Jafry



If the Prophet had addressed the people of Arabia as baywaqoofa I bet there
would not have been a single Arab that would have converted to Islam from the
jahalat that they were living in. However that did not happen and the 
prophet was responsible for converting Arabs into Islam by the sheer 
strength of his character that later became one feature among muslims that
was responsible for the spread of Islam in the subcontinent. i.e the Islam
that I find worth loving is the sort of Islam whose followers exhibit the
qualities that prove their worth as tolerant forgiving human beings like the
prophets.


But why am I telling jafry about qualities of character that a muslim should 
have. Have I gone insane? :)



SoDhal ramachanadani
From: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Murad Mirza's reply to Noor's open letter!
Date: 16 Apr 92 04:52:38 GMT
Reply-To: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Organization: Colorado State U. Center for Computer Assisted Engineering.


Dear Brothers and Sisters:


Just see what Mr. Murad Mirza has written in reply to Mr. Nasir Noor's
open letter. All readers can vary well see the intellectual level of
this person Murad Mirza. Or maybe Murad is here trying to be joker, in
the middle of serious debate? 



> assalam alaikum
>
> take it easy guy
> enjoy life while it is
> and your favorite "Lanat ulla ul Kazibeen", once more Lanat ulla ul Kazibeen
> if you want to hear in Punjabi then .......can't say it anymore
> in German it wud be worse
> of course Pashto wud top it all
> it seems you believe this one line wud be more effective in Arabic, but
> you are wrong dear just ask some Afridi there then you can convey it to
> me and it will be more effective, guarenteed!!!
>
> and i did read all of what you have written!!!
>
> khuda hafiz
> very best regards and good luck
> darling to none love for all
>
> Murad [life is just like a bubble] Mirza.




Sincerely,





	
**      *        *        * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  *  
* *     *       * *       *      *   *          *          *
*  *    *      *   *      *      *   *          *          *
*   *   *     *     *     * * * *    * * * *    * * * *    *
*    *  *    * * * * *    *      *   *          *          *
*     * *   *         *   *      *   *          *          *
*      **  *           *  * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  * * * * * *
                                                               __________
        "Is Not Allah Sufficient for His man?" :Quran         |  o    o  |
        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE)   |    /\    |
        April 15, 1992.                                       |  \____/  |
                                                              |___smile__|
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Dating I: The Common Sense
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:23:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr6.042830.9047@seas.gwu.edu> ahmad@seas.gwu.edu (The Alien) writes:
>
>
>	Here is me on Dating.
>
>WHAT DATING IS:	Dating is a means for meeting (usually) the opposite
>sex PRIMARILY for a LONG term relationship. By far the best longterm
>relationship has happened to be marriage. So in many cultures you may
>not date if you donot intend to marry. In the west it is acceptable to
>date and even associated to eachother without marrying for a long time.

>WHAT DATING IS NOT: It is not a means for finding a temporary sexual
>partener, not at least for a night or so. It is not a means of getting
>confidence to deal with the opposite sex either. It is not either going
>out as you can go out with your friends in a group, friends of same sex
>and your family.
>
>Aftab

I think the above definition of dating is very monolithic. If you 
happen to browse through alt.personals, you'll find a wide variety
of attitudes, ie., ads for one night stands & gang bangs to serious 
long term relationships, all clubed under the word 'date'. IMO, the 
above definition of dating as a hunt for a long term relationship is
passe. It has lost its original significance and perhaps new 
words should be coined to segregate the various activities that 
are encompassed by the word 'date'. 

regards,

   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Subject: Re: For all Qadiani friens
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:46:54 GMT

In <1992Apr10.161435.10180@topaz.ucq.edu.au> khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:

>Again sorry for not sending salam. That is because we can not send salam 
>to those people who do not believe on Allah 
>(the only difference is, Qadianis indirectly, Hindos directly).  

Another clssic example of A class ignorance and bigotry.

Above allegation of yours accusing us not believing in Allah and thus
calling  Atheist is outrrageous. I can't resist to say...
SHUT UP! (and a lot more but stop as ``Allah'' is written in this letter)

JAFRY'S TWIN IS BORN!!!

Nasir Ahmed Noor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Subject: Re: Constitutional Amendment
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:13:59 GMT

>From: mughal@hamlet.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
>Subject: Re: Constitution

>>Mughal sahib, do you know what is PUNISHMENT of discussing, preaching,
>>these things for him under the LAW? Up to 3 Years jail. This PUNISHMENT has
>>constitutional BLESSING. 
>>Rana has been discriminated, humiliated, insulted throughout his life
>> based on that sacred amendment. 
>
>   Methinks, you missed the point too. Even if one disagrees, one can still
>air the disagreement in simple plain words rather then resorting to insults.

How to air the disagreement? Under sword of PERSECUTION? 

>I can't help but feel contempt in your last sentence. 

.But you don't care about their sufferings.
.It is none of your business if they cannot practice their 
  religion freely.
.It is harmless when they go to JAILS because they display
 La Ilaha Il-Lal-Laah Muhammad Rasool-ul-Laah on their chests.
.If they cannot call their MOSQUES 'MOSQUES',they should call lt
 something else. What the big deal. Right?

Its my feelings you don't know  what discrimination and humiliation 
some citizens  have bee experiencing.
That  terror is brought by our own fellow citizens in the 
name of democracy and religion.
All you want from them is to respect the sacred 'BLACK' amendment 
and accept it.

>                                                      As a general rule, I 
>would expect no one will do anything which is not acceptable under the law 
>of the land. 

 That's wonderful.
 So you are justifying massacre of JELIANWALA BAAG by British because those
 innocents broke LAW of the LAND. After all, those innocents were talking
 about freedom and trying to tell their DISAGREEMENT with the ruling
 class. 

>The option to move somewhere else is always there, if one 
>fiercely disagrees with everyone else around them.
> 
Its SHAMEFUL to suggest that minority should MIGRATE because we the Majority 
 do not like their faith, ethnicity or beliefs.
Its ignorance of history and negation of human values.
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Saheeh and 'Saheeh' Hadith
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:17:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Polytechnic University, Brooklyn, New York

>From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
>Subject: Re: Saheeh and 'Saheeh' Hdith
>Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:27:25 GMT


>   If you want me to repost Hadiths about Mahdi, I will and you can see by
>yourself that they are contradictory, and to my knowledge none of them was
>narrated by Bukhari, Muslim or Hakim, so they are not Sahih Hadiths.

Who told you that there are no controversial Hadiths in 
Bukhaari and Muslim.

>   [Between me and you, here, I think Shiites played a good role in shaping
>those Hadiths. But don't tell anybody!]

I do not believe on any CONSPIRACY theory. You are against Ahmadies, 
now you want to alienate Shiates too.

>   [What logic is it that you want me to listen to? The logic that some
>Indian is Jesus Christ? If you can transform that logic to digital logic,
>I sure am going to listen.]

Its much better than letting an old man live in 4th heaven for 2000 years and
then expecting him to come down to earth(at the age of 2000+++) and 
spread Islam, kill the JEWS, Christians(positively Ahmadies too) 
because we one-billion muslims have failed miserably and
west is still ruling us.
From: jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Learn the manners first!!!
Date: 3 Apr 92 12:52:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Apr03.071330.29451@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:
>
>Yes you are wrong. There is no such thing as Qadiyani. Qadian is town in
>India and any body who is from that town is called a Qadiani. It has
>nothing to do with religion. It is just like calling Muslims as Meccans.
>Our sect is called Ahmadiyya. The Lahori Ahmadis have the same belief as
>other ahmadis, only they do not beleive in the present Khilafat the
>Ahmadis have. Is is clear now.

I thought that the major difference was not believing in the prophethood
of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.  Is that not true?  Also if the Lahori Ahmadis are
called Lahori Ahmadis, what are the non-Lahori Ahmadis called?

>        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (Never Argue with me!)     |    /\    |
>        April 02, 1992.                               |  \____/  |

Jamal [curious] Mubarak
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan