From: elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:15:52 CDT
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1jlcldINNj0l@mojo.eng.umd.edu>, by clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin):
>     I wonder if people have done studies about how kids in non-accelerated
> classes are taught.    Do teachers decide it's not worth pushing them?
> Do they put down the students (you would think this wouldn't happen)?
> Is the attitude better toward so-called gifted children?    We have

Read the book _A Place Called School: A Report on A Study of Schooling_.

> many teachers across the US, some (like Mr. Green) who have found solutions
> to "problem" students and are able to deal with these students, in what
> seems to be a productive manner.   Yet, is this information readily
> available to other people?   I don't know exactly what an education

I did not find the solutions to "problem" students. I was given them. I was
trained in them.

> degree provides, but it would be nice to have some of the ideas of
> education delivered to others teachers, and perhaps even to parents.

Unfortunately, education degrees provide information in an academic
environment. They do not provide teachers training in how to exhibit
particular behaviors when presented with given stimulae. There is only one
way to train behaviors, and that is to actually present the stimulae and
provide guidance in how to exhibit the behavior (i.e., shaping and
reinforcement of the behavior) and thus reinforcement of the actual
behavior, rather than just cold blank words on the page or detached
observation of situations where you're not required to actually
participate.

The closest thing today is student teaching. However, teachers are way too
overloaded to really give student teachers the sort of feedback that they
need, not to mention that many teachers know "instinctively" what to do
(i.e., they've been trained in those behaviors BY THEIR STUDENTS, when they
see their students respond to those behaviors), but they don't KNOW that
they've been trained by their students and thus can't help student teachers
(by providing a short-cut way that eliminates all that chaos!).

> >     It should be that all parents (if they can) should try to nurture
> their children's talents, even when these are not readily apparent, but
> what may be needed is some sort of guide to this process from others
> who have been successful in motivation.

Unfortunately, most of the motivation that I provide isn't in the form of
"coach"-like talk but, rather, "If you do fifteen problems, you can have
five minutes of playtime" type. This works great with younger kids. It
doesn't work so well with older kids. I also try to keep reinforcement
semi-random, i.e., I don't ALWAYS promise a reward for performance. In that
way the kids have fallen into the habit of working hard, without me having
to bribe them for every little instance. I still make a real effort to
reinforce them for good hard work, though. For example, my professional
development specialist came into my room while the kids were playing with
toy soldiers one day and asked what they were doing... I replied that we'd
just spent 45 exhausting minutes revising and rewriting paragraphs to try
to come up with good strong opening sentences and good strong closing
sentences (which wasn't always possible), and we ALL needed a little break.
I gave them social reinforcement too, of course -- "Phew, we did some
WORK!" -- but with the kids I teach, social reinforcement alone isn't
enough. Middle-class kids might perform for good words from their parents,
but kids who've never recieved good words before in their life tend to be a
bit wary of them.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.jpunix.com   Dodson Elementary
 (713) 664-6446                             Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu