HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hank@netcom.com (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Re: Uses for old CD-ROM's
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:44:10 GMT


If you have non-reusable CD-ROMs (outdated, not legal to pass on, etc)

I would love to have a few dozen or a few hundred of them; I build large
mobiles for gardens and other outdoor locations, and can use them.

You can gouge'em up or whatever you'd feel happy doing to prevent reuse
or trust me to do it; I'll probably drill holes in them.
From: strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Keywords: interesting old thought
Date: 27 Dec 92 07:59:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: matt.1hl1v0INNpic
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

nanook@eskimo.com (Robert Dinse) writes:

["we won't take it" garbage deleted]

>     Write into your purchase orders for new Sun equipment that the purchase
>is conditioned on the equipment being able to run Sun/OS 4.1.x.

It's posts like these that make me wonder how we have gotten as far as
we have.  Why not take this ludicrus concept to extreme?  Why not
write into your purchase orders for new automobiles that the purchase
is conditioned on the equipment being able to run on Leaded gasoline
-- or require that television manufacturers provide you with two
rotary knobs at the frunt of every set so that you can tune into your
favorite VHF stations and, with the selection of U on the top knob,
also have the added enjoyment of the UHF stations selected from the
bottom knob.  All this advancement and change has gotten out of hand.
What are we using UNIX for anyway?  Lest we forget that Multics is the
One True Operating System and COBOL is the Programming Language of
Choice.  Throw out your EMACS and vi editors and go back to the method
of user input bequeathed to us by God Almighty, the Punched Card.

M-x soapbox-mode

One year from today we shall live in an entirely different computing
environment.  UNIX will be threatened with the market arrival of
Microsloth NT -- The Megalomaniac Antichrist Bill ("Ding, dong, UNIX
is Dead!") Gates is going to screw our Beloved Operating System into
the ground with an Inferior and Bogus product designed to steal OS
sales away from UNIX in the most obvious and influential computing
markets.  In order to Survive ... indeed our Only Chance of resisting
assimilation is to *UNITE* under USL.

The very FUTURE of academic, scientific, and business computing is at
stake here, and *you* would take steps to jeopardize a Twenty Year
investment simply because a few canned apps have to be recompiled to
work with new Sun platforms? 

Stratocaster
-- 
	   Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!)
      strat@cis.ksu.edu - Kansas State University - Manhattan KS
				   
       PC's?  Blech.  Who wants a politically correct computer?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: bryan@uhura1.uucp (A. Bryan Curnutt)
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Organization: Stoner Associates, Inc./DREM Incorporated, Houston Texas
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.000823.1429@ultra.com> shj@ultra.com (Steve Jay {Ultra Unix SW Mgr}) writes:
>
>  I don't know
>why, but apparently some 3rd party vendors do use -Bstatic, so their
>applications won't work on Solaris 2.

A few of them do it so their customers won't have to buy additional
runtime libraries (such as the FORTRAN runtime library) in order
to run their software.
-- 
Bryan Curnutt                                  Stoner Associates, Inc.
bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net       (713)626-9568 voice  (713)622-7832 fax
From: ppan@nobeltech.se (Per Andersson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Keywords: interesting old thought
Date: 30 Dec 92 02:26:22 GMT
Organization: NobelTech AB

In article <1hl1v0INNpic@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:
>The very FUTURE of academic, scientific, and business computing is at
>stake here, and *you* would take steps to jeopardize a Twenty Year
>investment simply because a few canned apps have to be recompiled to
>work with new Sun platforms? 
>
Dear Steve, here in the Real World (TM), we use applications bought from
vendors. Vendors don't like to spend more money than nescessary. Vendors
don't want to port software to yet another operating system. So, what you
are saying is that we should be glad that we can buy these new wonderful
computers, although we can't use them ? Binary compability, heck, I've seen
applications that stop working when going to 4.1.2 from 4.1.1.
Exchanging the SUNs for HPs might be cheaper than waiting for Solaris 2.x 
versions of the software. And we also have SUN3 left, because we need to
maintain support to our customers.
It is a bit differeent if all you need is news,rn and emacs.

/Per
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Per Andersson - ppan@nobeltech.se (perand@stacken.kth.se on free time)
Managing networks at, but not speaking for Nobeltech AB, J{rf{lla, Sweden
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: dennett@acadia.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett)
Subject: Dumb question about at/batch
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 01:33:13 GMT

This is a very unimportant question I've always's wondered about.
When using the at or batch commands, some seemingly random number
is assigned to the job.  At first I thought it might be be the PID of
a process but apparently not.  So, where does this number come from?
Like a said, a useless piece of trivia.

Thanks

Charles Dennett          | Rochester Distributed Computer Services
Mail Stop 01925          |   Customer Technical Support Services
Eastman Kodak Company    | ---------------------------------------
Rochester, NY 14650-1925 |       Internet: dennett@Kodak.COM
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:26:34 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>Non peecee vendors using sysVr4 I know of are :
>ICL (Sparc, delievered several years ago), members of 88'open, such as
>Data General. Probably AT&T with the 3B2 ( I assume).

Yup.  The 3B2 was the original "porting base" for SVR4 (so much for the
claims that SVR4 would favor SPARC), although I think they've switched
to PeeCees subsequently.

(As such, I'd be willing to be that a 3B2 in Summit, New Jersey, running
SVR4, supported "mmap()" before any machines in Berkeley, California,
running BSD, did. :-))

I think Pyramid's MIPS-based machines use SVR4 as well.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield)
Subject: Re: Exporting Serial Ports
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 08:09:10 GMT

In article <1i00suINNenp@shelley.u.washington.edu> derry@hardy.u.washington.edu (Derry Lyons) writes:
   ...can a serial port be exported to another machine?

Use RFS to share devices, and NFS to share filesystems.
--
Bob Sutterfield, Morning Star Technologies            +1 614 451 1883
1760 Zollinger Rd, Columbus Ohio USA, 43221           +1 800 558 7827
bob@MorningStar.Com                                   +1 614 459 5054 (FAX)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: burr@seas.gwu.edu (Timothy J. Burr)
Subject: Compiling ANSI C on the Sun4's
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:06:25 GMT

I'm trying to compile the renderer to run on the suns, but I'm having
trouble.  All my code is in ANSI C, and the cc command doesn't like
it.  I tried gcc, but that give me errors relating to the stdlib.h
files and such, which aren't even mine.  Anybody know how I can compile
ANSI C on the sun4's with a minimum of pain?  

Thanks,
Tim


burr@seas.gwu.edu      -      burr@enews.nrl.navy.mil
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 29 Dec 1992 16:42:45 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <BzI0Ls.GGo@shakti.ncst.ernet.in>, riyer@shakti.ncst.ernet.in (Rajappa Iyer) writes:
|> I am a fairly recent reader of this group -- but even in the short time
|> that I have been reading it, I find it increasingly hard to ignore the
|> fact that Sun seems to be fucking its customers over. The new LX series
|> are a case in point. Sun users cannot plonk for the new machines no
|> matter *how* attractive the pricing for the simple reason that they
|> have already invested in apps for SunOS 4.1.x. My organization is also
|> one of the few "victims." It's all very well for Sun/Solaris proponents
|> to say "Oh but you can *still* buy old machines and run SunOS 4.1.x on
|> it." That's precisely the kind of trap I wished to avoid when I switched
|> to Sun. I want to be able to run the same apps on newer and faster machines.
|> 
|> Isn't anybody at Sun doing their homework right?
Remember IBM and its MicroChannel move?  Same objections.  Same downward
compatability solutions (see PS/2 model 25,30).  Casualties of the game are
never never happy.

Oh, and here's one more whine:
Said Sun with its new SPARC - 
"NO NEW INCOMPATABILITIES!"

And we all know about promises....

john
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: Sun 3-50 & Open Windows 2.0
Keywords: Sun 3-50
Organization: Inland Sea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:27:41 GMT

da-cs629@andy.bgsu.edu (da-cs629) writes:

>Does anyone know if a sun 3-50 will run openwindows 2.0?

Yes, but it requires a lot of patience or 8+MB of ram.  Not recommended.
-- 
 "When Dexter's on the Internet, can Hell be far behind?"
		-- Steve Simmons, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: SUN IPC as a standalone
Date: 25 Dec 92 14:29:35 GMT
Organization: cic

rriv@oural.inria.fr (Robert Riviere) writes:

>In article <e3hC02mE2eu401@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> esm40@cd.amdahl.com (Ed McGettigan) writes:
>>I was thinking about getting a SUN IPC(or a 1+) for use at home and wanted
>>to run it pretty much as I do at work for developing some new X-applications.

>I just configured an IPC for my boss for using at home. It has a 200Mo disk and
>8Mo Ram, and I've been able to give him X-windows, latex and epoch.
>I've been using it a little, and it works pretty well...

I suppose Mo means Megaoctects? :-)

>It would perhaps be a little small for 'developing some new X-applications', 
>but a 500Mo disk and 16Mo RAN would work fine.

>An amusing fact is that you cannot configure SunOS for not including inet.
>Even for a totally standalone usage...

You would loose IP-based sockets, which renders many applications
absolutely useless. The amusing fact is that it is still an option.
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  This is an unofficial  |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  opinion of Christoph & |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  Imschweiler Consulting |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Keywords: interesting old thought
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:54:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.203852.8733@news.arc.nasa.gov> okuyama@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Darin Okuyama YR) writes:
>   -- did you really think any computer you purchase
>      will be viable for more than a few years?

I expect a minimum of 5, and so far I'm getting 7+. This is for my needs, your
milage will vary... especially if you want a race-car instead of an econobox.
The only computer I own I can't get current software for is a Mac-128, now
going into its 9th year.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
From: vzspa@pandora.calgary.chevron.com (zoltan s. palmai)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Motif for SUN - Summary
Keywords: motif
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:03:10 GMT
Organization: chevron


This is a summary of my original posting with regards suggestions/recom-
mendations on obtaining Motif for our SUN workstations. 

For us, the primary use of having Motif on our SUNs would be to run Motif
applications, use the Motif Window Manager (mwm) as an alternative to olwm,
and the ability to compile public domain Motif applications.  However, as
one respondent pointed out, it is possbile to run Motif applications
remotely on the SUN, as long as the application is statically linked with the
Motif libraries.

From those who responded, it seems that the product from ICS is one of the
more popular choices.  However, there are several other vendors to choose
from.  The March 1991 issue of UNIX WORLD had a review of several of these.

So, here's a list of those which I have heard of:

- ICS OSF/Motif Developers' Kit, 1-800-800-4271  info@ics.com
- Quest Commercial Motif, Quest Systems Corp. (408) 496-1900
- |X| X.desktop Motif Environment, |X| Limited 1-800-995-0384 motif@x.co.uk
- XTech Motif, Unipalm XTech, +44-954-211862
- Parc Place Systems
- DEC Motif (for SUNs)


A big THANK-YOU to all those who took the time to respond!

-- 
Zoltan Palmai                             Internet: vzspa@calgary.chevron.com
Chevron Exploration & Production Services      Tel: (403) 234-5551
500, Fifth Ave. S.W.                           Fax: (403) 234-5215
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   T2P 0L7
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:34:42 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>I don't understand why 4.1 apps don't work under Solaris? Is it a matter of
>Solaris not having back-compatible shared libraries, or did they break
>something?

Solaris 2.x includes a version of the run-time linker, and versions of
shared libraries, to provide backwards compatibility.  However:

	1) if the application is *statically* linked with "libc", it
	   loses, because the SunOS 4.x and SunOS 5.x system call trap
	   interfaces are *not* binary compatible with each other;

	2) there may well be bugs in the libraries in question, or in
	   what kernel support was stuck in to help them out.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,mi.sun,comp.sys.dec
From: mcnesel@cs1.dfrf.nasa.gov (Michael C. Nesel)
Subject: Re: 101 Ways to Use an Old CD-ROM
Organization: Perimeter Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:15:59 GMT

Our creative computer operations supervisor uses them to make clocks.
She buys stick-on numerals, battery-operated movement and appropriately
sized hands and makes very attractive clocks, which make great gifts.
The rainbow pattern always elicits comments.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: ppan@nobeltech.se (Per Andersson)
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Organization: NobelTech AB
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:29:23 GMT

In article <16140@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
>Such as?  IBM and HP don't seem to be going the full-blown OSF route;
>I've not heard a solid committment from either one to toss out their
>current flavor of UNIX in favor of OSF/1.  DEC is the only major player
>I've seen get fully behind OSF/1....

On the other hand, they are not doing sysVr4 either, which was part of the 
original question. Non peecee vendors using sysVr4 I know of are :
ICL (Sparc, delievered several years ago), members of 88'open, such as
Data General. Probably AT&T with the 3B2 ( I assume).

/Per


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Per Andersson - ppan@nobeltech.se (perand@stacken.kth.se on free time)
Managing networks at, but not speaking for Nobeltech AB, J{rf{lla, Sweden
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil (David P. Kemp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:30:59 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Dec29.201610.522@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>>You mean a free GNU compiler will break your budget?
>
>Yes!  That "free" GNU compiler has to get here some how.  We are uucp
>only, we cannot wait to get it via ftpmail if we upgrade.  We're a small
>shop and cannot have that much in down time while we deal with the
>restrictions of this service (NOTE: I am *not* flaming the ftpmail
>service; on the contrary, I praise it!  But it would pose a real problem
>using it in this scenario).  We cannot afford the 1-900- costs that we
>would be charged to get it from UUNET and we cannot afford the hundreds
>of dollars to order a tape from a company or even the FSF.  Economic
>times are tough, in case you haven't noticed, and we are trying to
>survive on Long Island, which has been among the hardest hit areas of
>the region.
>

Since you mentioned the Solaris 2.1 CD's, I assume you can afford (or
have already spent) the $795 for a CD ROM drive.  In that case, you get
the Cygnus/GNU for free off the Catalyst CD.  

Stop whining and grow up.  That is the first time I've heard anybody
complain about Internet freeware because it costs too much to download.
Of course, that's not *really* what you are complaining about - it's
just another (albeit novel:-) excuse to bash Sun on that compiler thing.
Give it up; it's a dead, dead horse by now.

-----
You complain that Sun took two years to transistion to Solaris 2; just
what would have been a better timetable?  1 year from first hint to
cutover?  3 months?  1 week?  I have no complaints with getting two
years warning of what was coming, along with *lots* and *lots* of
hints on what to do to make the transition easier.  You're not going
to get much sympathy for reading and then ignoring the advice to use
5bin and 5lib.  It really isn't that hard to put 5bin first in your
path, so you get the SysV behaviour by default.

-- 
   Dave Kemp   dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Washington [D.C.] is a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm"
     -- John F. Kennedy
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.misc:6102 comp.sys.sun.apps:2887 comp.sys.sun.admin:9866
From: vhc@abacus.hgs.se (Mikael Larsson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.sys.sun.admin
Subject: User-statistivcs
Date: 2 Jan 93 11:29:57 GMT
Organization: Solace Computer Club, Sundsvall, Sweden

Hi,

I am looking for some program to keep statistics of the users on a machine.
I have been using a program named "geeks" a while, but found out it had some
bugs.. and am looking for a new one. I want to make "toplists" of the users
who are most logged on at the system... 

Also, if someone have a program for mailinstatistivs, which reads the file
/var/log/syslog and make a toplist of the users who sends/gets most mail?

Someone help me? :)


						Rgds,
					
							MiL


-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mikael Larsson         Phone: +46-26 275740          Email: vhc@abacus.hgs.se
Virus Help Centre      Fax:   +46-26 275720              or   : mikael@vhc.se
Authorized McAfee Associates Agent     FidoNet: 2:205/204 - VirNet: 9:461/101
From: svb@svb.guug.de (Sebastian v. Bomhard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question about at/batch
Date: 2 Jan 93 02:15:25 GMT
Organization: v. Bomhard Unternehmensberatung

In article <16126@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:

    >This is a very unimportant question I've always's wondered about.
    >When using the at or batch commands, some seemingly random number
    >is assigned to the job.  At first I thought it might be be the PID of
    >a process but apparently not.  So, where does this number come from?

    It's the i-number of the file in "/usr/spool/cron/atjobs" containing the
    commands to run.

Are you sure? Then I'm very surprised that on my machines those "inode
numbers" match exactly the time (GMT) in seconds when the job is to be
started.

What a coincidence :-)


Regards,

  -svb.

-- 
Sebastian v. Bomhard                               <svb@svb.guug.de>
St.-Anna-Str. 13, D-W-8000 Muenchen 22 (Lehel),     +49-89-298934
>>>>>>>>>>>     A neat desk is a sign of a sick mind.      <<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 05:34:40 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com

In article <1992Dec29.201610.522@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>In article <kbibb.725606456@maui> kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb) writes:
>>X was developed by DEC.

>Excuse me?  Do you know what you are talking about?  X was developed by
>MIT.  They might have used grants from DEC and a lot of X ideas may have
>come from DEC Windows, but X is from MIT.

Actually, X was developed by Project Athena, which was a joint project
between MIT, DEC, and IBM.  I believe that quite a few of the X designers
(including Gettys) were DEC employees assigned to Project Athena; they
worked *at* MIT but worked *for* DEC.  The Athena contract stipulated that
software developed as a result would not be proprietary, so X (and
Kerberos, Zephyr, etc.) are freely available.

And isn't DECWindows just the name for the implementation of X that you get
from DEC?  If so, then DECWindows took ideas from X, not vice versa.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
From: paulr@fulcrum.oz.au (Paul Rosham)
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:56:34 GMT

It seems that people are still missing the point...

riyer@shakti.ncst.ernet.in (Rajappa Iyer) writes:

>... I find it increasingly hard to ignore the
>fact that Sun seems to be fucking its customers over. The new LX series
>are a case in point. Sun users cannot plonk for the new machines no
>matter *how* attractive the pricing for the simple reason that they
>have already invested in apps for SunOS 4.1.x.

Before you get "fucked over", when are you expecting to be purchasing or
taking delivery of new machines like the LX? What are your critical apps?
Have you checked with the vendor about Solaris 2 availability.

I am really interested. I think that a discussion of which apps are and are
not moving would be valuable.

Or are you speaking prematurely?

-PaulR.

P.S. The design goal of the LX and Classic was not "cheaper and faster" but
"cheaper and not slower". Don't get your hopes up...
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Is Sun losing touch with its customers?
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:58:50 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>When will SunPC, OnLine DiskSuite, SunLink, etc. be available for
>sunos5?  Doesn't this vendor know that the move to SV has been
>trumpeted and heralded for many years now?  Haven't they been using
>the powerful porting tools and compatability packages?

Err, gee, you *are* aware that a lot of the content of the
aforementioned applications is *kernel* code, right?

And you *are* aware that, for better or worse, most if not all of "the
powerful porting tools and compatibility packages" don't do anything to
help kernel code, right?

Yes, it's probably not a Good Thing that Sun hasn't yet ported them. 
However, the bit about "the powerful porting tools and compatibility
tools" is irrelevant.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc