HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: A good death (was: Random thoughts on Supes)
Reply-To: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 19:18:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.072503.25480@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
> dascoser@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (david serchay):
> >...which character's death did you think was best. I always liked Karate 
> 'Best' as in died well, as in died amusingly, or as in most welcome
> to the reader?

For the first category, I'd tend to go with DC deaths in the 60s when
killing off a character was a major enough event that they put some effort
in it (come to think of it, this was also the case with Marvel at the time; see
deaths of supporting characters such as Franklin Storm and George Stacy).
From that period, noteworthy ones are Ferro Lad in Legion #353, Superman
in both the Death of Superman "imaginary story" and the Virus X multi-parter
(where he didn't actually die, but it was effectively a death story as
it showed events leading up to a very expected death as well as some 
repercussions of same), and particularly the Doom Patrol at the end of
their series. I used to hope that whoever did Doom Patrol would set a story
in Four Heroes, Maine, the fishing village of (then) 14 people for whom
the DP explicitly sacrficed themselves...of course by now they've had to
rename it either Hero, Maine or Elasti-Girl, Maine, as the other three came
back. The original death scene of Jor-L/El and Lora/Lara was pretty good
too, as was Thomas and Martha Wayne's.

Another good "almost death" story was a Legion of Super-Heroes in the late
370s of Adventure. While the second part was pretty bad (and had little to do
with the first part save for a last minute cure of 5 time-stopped characters),
the first part had Brainiac 5, Superboy, Duo Damsel, Projectra, and Karate Kid
poisoned with 24 hours or so to live. It then dealt with how they chose to
spend those hours, all quite in character. In particular, Karate Kid chose to
go off and tackle the Fatal Five solo.

Amusing death probably goes to Elrod as Deadalbino.

"No matter how beautiful and well-crafted the writing, if the main character
could drop dead on the next page and I would feel nothing then I am not
enjoying the book."  --Laura Creighton
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Subject: Re: Swamp Thing #128 
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:36:12 GMT

In <ic0qwB11w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
>You can't borrow someone else's personal visions.

Actually, I think you've picked a remarkably bad example for this argument.
I really, really enjoyed Rick Veitch's run on SWAMP THING after Moore left
the book; but I think Veitch, for the most part, borrowed Moore's visions
and ideas.  Certainly he mixed in a few of his own, and his own style; but
the direction of the book drifted only a bit.

As to Collin's and Wheeler's stories: I base their failure on lack of
writing skills and imagination -- not imagination in taking the book in
seriously different directions, but imagination in coming up with elements
in the story and in the character to keep the reader's interest.

God is in the details, and all that.

                        Selections from TOP TEN SLOGANS FOR DC COMICS:

                             8. THE NEW DC: Reminding Gaiman Why He Kept
                                            Creative Control 
                             6. THE NEW DC: A Mandate For Change
                             5. THE NEW DC: Stop Us Before We Plot Again!
                             4. THE NEW DC: Because You Can't Spell
                                            "Disappointing Crap" Without DC! 
                             1. THE NEW DC: Can't _Anybody_ Stop Us?

                                           -- Michael Schiffer
----
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
From: manga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Michael Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: MISC: Comics Readers' Ages (was Re: PAD & Pros)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:03:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1imfsi$ig9@agate.berkeley.edu> goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
>In article <C0GLJu.xA@matilda.vut.edu.au> jed@matilda.vut.edu.au (Jed Bowtell) writes:
>)I think McFarlane shows a degree of contempt for his audience
>)in his Comics Journal (I think) interview where he basically
>)says he doesn't care if his writing is good, the only thing
>)that matters is that people buy it\like it. It is either
>)contempt or stupidity.
>)
>)jed
>
>	I read that interview, and I'll vote for stupidity. Anyone who
>hasn't read it and has the least bit of interest in McFarlane or in 
>Image should try to do so. It's truly amazing: the man can barely frame
>a coherent sentence. 
>

I have read said interview, and to be frank, the man makes a whole lotta
sense. It doesn't really matter if McFarlane's writing stands up to some 
comic-snob's idea of "good". The "elite 5%" really don't matter. For the
most part they are covering up their own insecurity by creating a 'they' to
artificially be superior to. If McFarlane is writing (and drawing) stuff he
enjoys, fine. If people are buying it, that's just fine too. To HeXX with
the people at The Comics Urinal.


                              Tiger-A
                          Otaku-for-Hire


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Cerebus
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:53:28 GMT

silbrmnd@acf3.nyu.edu (Darkmage):
>	1. What's going on???
>	2. Besides trying to find the first 13 issues of Mothers and
>	   Daughters, what other Cerebus stuff should I read?
>	3. *What* are the phonebooks???

Okay, there's good news and there's bad news.  The good news is that
you have stumbled onto one of the best continuing titles in the comic
world today, and that the time, trouble, and money it'll cost you will
be well worth it.

The bad news is that it'll be a fair bit of all three.  You see, there
isn't some convenient place to come in:  Cerebus is one long story that
has been going since issue #1 (sortof) and will end at issue #300.  At
some point, to know what's going on, you're going to have to read all
the back issues.

The good news, sortof, here, is that it'll cost you about a dollar
an issue.  Towards the end of Cerebus #165 you'll find a two-page
ad for "reprint volumes".  Those are the 'phonebooks', so called 
because they're roughly the size and shape (and feel) of telephone
books.  Each volume reprints about 25-30 issues and costs about $25.
Your comic book store may have some or all of them in stock.

My advice would be to get either of the first two reprint volumes.
This will give you some useful background and constitute a reasonable
basis for deciding whether you want to continue following up on this.

The first volume, titled Cerebus, reprint issues 1-25.  The first few
issues are a Conan parody, but by issue 11 the title has found its own
voice and the story is well and truly launched.  Alternatively, you
may want to try the second volume, titled High Society (issues 26-50)
which is a single sub-story:  Cerebus the Prime Minister, his rise and fall.
(Mothers and Daughters, even from the beginning of the run, doesn't
make much sense if you don't have the background.)

So do what the rest of us latecomers did:  Keep reading Cerebus each
month, as it comes out, and meanwhile catch up on the back-story till
it makes sense.  To the extent that it makes sense.  And if, after
trying one of those two phonebooks, you decide you'd rather not go to
the trouble, at least you'll have given it a fair try.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  )
Subject: Re: Deathlok (Re: Recent stuff)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:04:53 GMT

>Speaking of recent stuff, would Deathlok fit in this category?
>
>I think it is one of the most well done Marvel comics. Check it out! It is 
>intelligent (in a relative way to speak) and complex. Of course, it is still
>Marvel, but it is worth being checked out, believe me.

I rather like the Deathlok mini-series and thought it was one of the
biggest surprises the year it came out. I was really looking forward to
the series. However, I stopped after about 8 issues because the art was
awful, the stories were filled with nothing but cameos to boost sales
(something that annoys the hell out of me), and found the book just
generally boring. I still look at it on the stands occasionally, but I
haven't seen anything that would make me want to pick it up.

So I guess the answer is, yeah, I think it will be one of the books to
go. Not just because I don't like it, but because I have a gut feeling
that the book doesn't have what it takes to survive an implosion (is
that spelled right?).

_craig

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^  Things That You Don't Want To Find Yourself in the Guinness Book   ^
^                      of World Records for:                          ^ 
^  #1 - Loudest and Longest Death Scream.                             ^
^  #4 - Person most often referred to as "That complete Dickhead."    ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC: misc stuff
Keywords: Get Anxious!
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:51:14 GMT
Reply-To: mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame


My $0.02....

 jordan@castor (Jet Jaguar) writes:

 Animal Man:

|> I really don't like Steve Pugh's art (I didn't like it in Hellblazer,
|> either) and Jamie Delano seems to me like an Alan Moore wannabe.  Some of
|> his characters (like Uncle Dudley) are a little one-dimensional, and I usually
|> just tune out the parts where he tries to go all introspective.  But, I have
|> to say the last part of the latest issue, with Cliff's Cannibal Kid comic
|> book, was really chilling.  A lot more than any monster-lurking-in-the-shadows
|> would be.  I thought it was very ominous and I imagine Cliff's instability
|> is going to be a major subplot in the future...

Okay, I *like* Pugh's art. I liked it on Hellblazer and I like it now. I don't
think he's the best artist that Delano has worked with, but I like his style more than the current artistic dreck in Hellblazer.

As far as Jamie bein a "Moore-wannabe" I have no idea what this means! Alan
Moore is regarded as one of the best comic writers, so I'd hope Delano would
shoot for that. I can't recall ever seeing Delano use *any* of the tricks that
Moore used in his DC work. For example, Moore's constantly linking the 
character's dialogue with a close-up of some everyday object. I don't want to
get into a big discussion of Alan Moore's comic writing tricks of the 
mid-to-late 1980's and Jamie Delano's writing style from the late 1980s to
early 1990s, but having read a huge body of work by both of them, I don't 
recognize a similar writing style. Also, I doubt a serious case can be made
for claiming Delano is rehashing Alan Moore's plot ideas.


|> Dani Zweig mentioned the laundromat issue by John Smith -- I actually liked
|> this one.  It wasn't supposed to be a major deal; I think it was just supposed
|> to be kind of creepy and surreal, and it worked.  Actually, I haven't really
|> disliked any of the stories except for the Royal Blood storyline.   The writing
|> wasn't bad, I just thought the whole concept was pretty lame and overused.  If
|> Ennis wants to make comments on the Royal Family, I think there are lots better
|> (and more subtle) ways to do it.

I left this in because I also liked this issue. Perhaps it was just nostalgia
for the old "Tales of Terror", but I liked it.

-- 
+               Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics                +
+                                                                           +
+ mkelly@doc.helios.nd.edu          "The more you drive,                    + 
+ mkelly@undhe5.hep.nd.edu                 the less intelligent you are."   +
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:33:21 CST
From: Noel B. Lorenzana <U38134@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Harbinger?: Is Peter aka. Sting gay???

I just read Harbinger #8 and realized Sting's true feelings are
of a homosexual nature. In the wormhole he was saddened by his
inner thoughts and admitted to being in love with Torque. So I
figure ol' boy peter is a pumpkin eater(bi-sexual). Anyone know
more about this? Thanks,

Noel.
From: shaun@iris.mincom.oz.au (Man in Polyester Suit)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: SANDMAN:  Tempus Frangit
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:44:08 GMT
Organization: Mincom, Brisbane, Australia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


Glenn Carnagey (lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: Lance wrote:
: >- Tempus Frangit. Time stops or time shatters or time breaks? Anyone have
: >  any of the training in Latin that I obviously lack?
:
: No that's right, 'time shatters' (but not stops).  Well, I thought it
: was clever :)

I prefer to think of it as "Time Fragments", using "fragments" in both it's
noun ("pieces") and verb ("to break up") forms.

Just a thought.

-Shaun
-- 
    -----        "Baby's on fire, better throw her in the water                
    \ = /---      Look at her laughing, like a heifer to the slaughter         
     \ / ? /      Baby's on fire, and all the laughing boys are bitching       
        \ /       Waiting for photos, oh the plot is so bewitching"  - Eno     
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:30:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Signal to Noise
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc

One thing that I like about this work is that it at least
contains the potential to yeild new information in analyzed.
I do not have the time to do so, and am not particularly
skilled at doing so, but I was looking it over again last
night and noticed an amusing syntactical trick.

It happens at the point where the writers doctor calls him
to talk about the biopsy.  I do not recall the exact wording,
but he mentions the crackling on the telephone wire and
the sound of the voice as if talking long distnace.
Then come the words "Noise on the line:"  followed by
the doctor speaking and asking him if he would allow her
to do a biopsy.

When I first read it, I thought the "noise on the line"
referred to the crackling he heard on the wire, but the
way it is written with the colon followed by the doctor
speaking, we are forced to conclude that he is
referring to the doctors words as noise on the line.

I thought this was a rather amusing trick, and is at least
sltightly important I suspect.

doug

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Futuristic Pseudocussing
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:33:39 GMT

In article <73246@cup.portal.com> Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com writes:
>So much of profanity is subjective.  I mean, "Bloody" in America doesn't 
>have all that much impact.  But in the U.K., I once saw a British kid 
>get slapped by his mother when he said "Bloody" and his mother cursed him
>out (well, scolded him) for using "that foul language."
>
>Of course, I did have a British character say "Bugger" a couple of times
>before the editors eventually found out what it means.  And in SM 2099 #5,
>the Specialist uses mild (very mild) transliterated Japanese profanity.

And don't forget John Constantine's infamous "Bugger. Blast. Damn.
Felching heck." from _Books_of_Magic_ #2. Of course, this was over at
DC; and besides, some benighted editors might not know what "felching"
is.

And then there was the anagram guy in _Doom_Patrol_ who yelled
"THIS!"...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: frambs@acpy01.att.com (Ken Frambs (CXNIXPT1))
Subject: Question on TPBs for Sandman
Organization: AT&T IMS - Piscataway, NJ (USA)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:53:05 GMT


Would anyone have a list of all the Sandman TPBs that have
come out and which issues are collected in each volume? I'd
appreciate if someone could send me email with such a list
(if available).

Thanks -
ken
frambs@acpy01.att.com


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: sbw@thumper (Susan B. Williams)
Subject: Re: Cerebus #165
Organization: Image Manipulation Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:25:27 GMT

>The reason for this is that Sim's obsession with the idea that vocal
>feminism == matriarchal feminism == evil is begining both to piss me off
>and to bore me.  Up til now I was willing to give Sim the benefit of the
>doubt and assume that while the Cirinists are *a* loony female-dominated
>society, Sim was not using them to say that all feminists are monomaniac
>crypto-fascists who want to eat men's balls.  
>
>I am not excited by the prospect of 150 issues of Sim bemoaning the
>short-comings of silly little women who don't have his profound and
>far-ranging insight into the politics of gender.  Your mileage may vary,
>of course.
>
>Damian

Its fascinating how we all see what we are predisposed to see.
I've been reading mothers and daughters and wondering what has happened
to Dave that he seems to have converted.  Specific examples fail me,
but on numerous occasions he has highlighted real problems/biases
faced by women every day and trumpeting this sort of stuff seems to
be a major objective of the story.  I have chalked it up to being in
love again--hell he's even responding to letters in the letters page.

No argument on him presenting an unpleasant vision of female-dominated
society, however to me, it just seems like a filter for viewing
typical male-dominated societies (it looks much the same).
Being a working mother, I am also quite amused by Cirin's arguments on
why only mothers should be given responsibilities (vs. women with
no children), and the views on husbands and their appropriate behavior
is also quite hilarious.  I think it takes a large amount of being
willing to look into women's and men's lives to come up with this stuff.

sue
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Sue Williams
 Sr. Software Engineer
        
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: pmm34393@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dr. Vincent Vaugn)
Subject: Re: European G.I.Joe
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:02:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.203150.12090@nmsu.edu> enpontel@dante.nmsu.edu (PONTELLI) writes:
>Hello,
>I was wondering if anybody could help me. I have heard some time ago 
>something regarding an English version of G.I.Joe. Do you know anything 
>about it ?
>
>						Enrico

There used to be Action Force, which I have about 25 issues of. It reprinted
a lot of the American stories, but it also had some new stories in it. 
It seemed to be GI Joe, but they acted like they were based out of England
and they called themselves Action Force. There
were a few issues where the Transformers were crossed over. I also have a 
few issues of GI Joe: European Missions. I don't know wther these are
still being made--I ordered some from Mile High Comics. Action Force is 
apparently hard to find because it is a Magazine size comic so most 
back-issue stores don't carry it. If anybody knows where these can be
ordered from, feel free to share it!



-- 

Send e-mail to: pmm34393@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: jed@matilda.vut.edu.au (Jed Bowtell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: I'm bored - gimme something to read
Date: 4 Jan 93 09:59:25 GMT
Organization: Victoria University of Technology

panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:

>jed@matilda.vut.edu.au (Jed Bowtell) writes:

>> I agree, Spawn is overrated. McFarlane's writing has not
>> improved, it has gone downhill.

>This was my impression.  Sad but true.

At last somebody who agrees with me.

>> I have all the issues so far but have only read the first.
>> I was not overly impressed. This could be due to the fact
>> that I have neveer read a grendel story before.

>I would suggest that you (a) read the other issues of Grendel: War Child 
>and get back issues of GRENDEL and MAGE.  It's one of the best comics 
>ever.

I have done just what you said and I take everything back. I
really liked the first four issues (yes I know issue five is
out). I even like McKeown's art. It is different, especially
with the colouring.

>I find HEPCATS hard to find.  The only time I ever see it is when I go to 
>the San Diego con and MArtin Wagner is there.  I have it on my 
>subscription list at the Silver Snail but it *never* turns up.  Has there 
>been a new issue since August?

Well a new issue came out about two weeks ago. It is always late 
but is always worth the wait.

>> >- The Desert Peach
>> >  One of the most concept-rich, profound, thoughtful comics on the 
>> >market.
>> 
>> I have heard a lot about it but can never find it.
>> 
>Have you tried asking your store manager about it?  If not, ask again 
>here, and I'm sure I or someone can give you the address to order it.

I just saw issue 17 (I think) today and looked at it. That
type of comic just doesn't do anything for me. Was issue
17 a particularly strange issue?

I also picked up the 2nd printing of A Distant Soil today and
I enjoyed it. I'll have to hunt down issue two now. I should
be cutting down on comics not picking more up.


Jed
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Cerebus #165
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:19:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.095120.4253@news.columbia.edu> jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.221442.7983@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>...The Cirinists' interpretations of what is happening are unreliable.
>
>  "Women" is thematically "High Society," right?  The Cirinists'
>interpretations seem very similar to HS's _The History of the Election
>of 1414_.  We see all the characters muddling through, doing things
>for purely personal or emotional reasons, and then the analysts spend
>enormous amounts of time second-guessing what's going on, creating
>utterly fictional deep agendas for everyone involved.

Much the same thing happened in _Church_and_State_, just after Cerebus
became Pope. When he threw the baby into the crowd, Theresa was
convinced that it was a Papal endorsement of Kevillism, and thus proof
that Astoria was still pulling the strings.

Astoria played off of this when she was Cerebus's prisoner, pointing
out how *anything* he did to Astoria would be subject to disastrous
interpretation.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc