HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 19 Nov 1992 15:26:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov19.212226.22047@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>In article <1effutINNg9u@girtab.usc.edu> rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri) writes:
>>HEY:	a) It's not our fault.
>>	b) We have to play with this lag anywhere outside of USC.
>>	   This means it is NOT, i repeat, NOT a one way deal that
>>	   screws over our opponents only.
>
>I don't give a shit whose fault it is and what you have to suffer with.
>Other people should not have to suffer because you do.

So basically, USC is fucked because we have a shitty connection.  So we have
to bus our asses to UCLA for any INL 'home' games we may have, yet suffer
"calvin" lag for all our away games.  Let's see how many people agree with
you.

Hey, Mr. Worley, it's only ONE goddam game each team has to play at calvin.
We have to play HALF of our games outside of it.  WHO gets hurt more?

>Say I set up a server on a machine connected to the Internet by SLIP,
>with 8 worksations connected to it via LAN, and started a team 
>which could play on the eight stations.  Should the INL have to
>deal with the playing conditions?  Of course not.  calvin is just
>a milder example of the above.

Hogwash.  You would be setting up the server on purpose.  We don't have
some version of lagd running across our system, you know.

>>I've already posted this crap 3 times.  The only people who complain are
>>the Berkeley people.  Spaceace! has pointed out that our lag is the worst
>>in the country.  Imagine how it must be for us to play INL games.
>Must be unpleasant.  So what's yer point?

See above.

>>Now leave this alone.
>No.

Suit yourself.

5150
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 12:03:37 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)

Sorry to flame the Veep, but
FillInTheNOT!
Sorry, but there have been times when we've had a full team ready to play
and spill blood, but haven't been able to get computers.  Do we lose because
were in a university setting and don't have our own/business's computer to play
from?  Hardly fair in any sense of the word.  I *know* that Berkeley also has
this problem, so having set times is definitely NOT the way to go.

-KB
 Rear Admiral "FillInTheOops" Akira
From: hadley@thoth.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:33:56 GMT

>In article <2B09366B.29264@ics.uci.edu> hadley@codes.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley) writes:
>)In <1e9slvINNgfr@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

>            I don't feel that we would have a right to reject calvin
>as a server choice,

   Ok, I misunderstood the capacity you were speaking in.  I guess I was
   worried you were speaking more as an INL official than GB captain.

>but I certainly feel we were justified in complaining
>about it.

   Yes, absolutely, but I strongly objected to your suggestion that we
   _intentionally_ played the first game on calvin so that we could have
   unfair home-field advantage.  I hope you see that that wasn't the case.

>I have never claimed that you were 'morally required' to forfeit your
>home-field advantage.  But if the point of being in the INL is to play
>high-quality games, calvin is not the place to play them.

   Well, we know that now :)

>There was a lot of discussion on this issue but no real conclusion.
>One concept we had was having the Council test out all possible server
>machine for net load and machine load, and accept or reject servers
>based on our findings.  We didn't do this, partly because it would be
>a lot of work, and partly because the results wouldn't necessarily
>mean anything (since lag comes and goes, except at Calvin).  I'm sure
>there will be more discussion, anyway.

   Yes, indeed.  Recently I suggested a benchmark test of some kind, but
   unfortunately, the current server implementation is lacking a crucial
   "timing" packet -- there's no way to precisely determine the time between
   sending a client packet and the time it's received by the server.
   However, I have found a more meaningful "lag" measure which can be kept
   by the client with almost 0 overhead: standard deviation in the time
   between server updates.  I have this implemented in my client and the
   results so far seem to correlate very closely with "playability".
   Here's some typical measures from UCI to other servers with minimum ping
   times along for comparison.

				SD		MIN PING TIME

      vlsi.ics.uci.edu:		5			  2
      calvin.usc.edu:		50			 10
      patriot.ulowell.edu	40			115
      bronco.ece.cmu.edu:	25			 90
      discovery.cl.msu.edu	20			 90

   It's immediately noticeable that SD has little or no correlation
   with ping time (although ping time should probably not be completely
   discounted).   At the least, it may provide a more meaningful way
   to discuss and compare lag...

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:32:22 GMT

> In <Bxsq20.Fzw.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
> 
> >I still haven't found an effective way to give advice to a teammate
> >without his taking it as an insult.  Anybody found a way?  

Well, as I see it you have two choices.  You can insult them alot, or beg  
with them.  I frequently say "please bomb", or "please ogg R3".  I think  
that it tends to get better results then "god damn it, ogg R3 you stupid  
moron twinks".  Of course, if this fails, I lose my composure...:-).

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR Proposal: keymaps
From: David Reeve Sward <sward+@CMU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:59:59 -0500 
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 17-Nov-92 Re: NBR Proposal:
keymaps by Leonard Dickens@mimsy.um 
> David Sward writes:
> >I don't know if something else like this has been proposed.  If there
> >has been another proposal with enough overlap with this to not warrant
> >this, feel free to cheerfully ignore this.
> >
> >Proposal: ship-dependant keymaps
> > [...]
>  
> This is already an Official Change:
>  
> |keymap/option/parameters swap by ship-type, or possibly on-the-fly:
> |have a different set of program variables be loaded automatically for
> |each type of ship.  Possibly allow the player to invoke such a change
> |on the fly.
>  
> (Note that "program variables" in the above is supposed to mean
> exactly keymap/options/parameters.)

OK, musta missed it.  Thanks.
From: feng-thomas@cs.yale.edu (Thomas Zuwei Feng)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RAS hummm....
Date: 21 Nov 1992 23:39:33 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monkey.zoo.cs.yale.edu


>        Well it seems to me that someone out there with the skill and presistenc
>e
>will eventually find a way around or through RSA. Be it by hacking or stealing
>code. So while this may work for awhile, it could be possiible for borgs to be o
>n
>RSA servers in two years tops. So all this ends up being is a pain in the player
>s
>ass to go out find the codes jump thorugh all the hoops just to play the game
>without borgs. A simpler idea would be start using borgs all the time, and end
>this sillyness of "I got a new way of keeping borgs out game". I think borgs
>discourage new comers to the game because they (the new ones) have blessed
>binaries and they get the tar whipped out of them by any smuck in a borg, let
>alone an Flt. Adm. with a blessed client.
>        I don't need any flames, this is just an idea to kick around in your
>heads. We can either update and change codes every few years or we could just sa
>y
>screw it and have a hands off attitude and try to help new comers by giving them
>a borg to use so they'll at least be able to defend themselfs from "ogg the new
>guy scum" that are out there.
>
>bond
>A.k.a. (Gurrr, Vetterdon)
>

Well, as a matter of fact, the way around RSA has been found already.  And
a blessed borg with source code is in an anonymous ftp site.  Send me mail
for more information.

tfeng aka. Phone Company aka. Ij Sucks aka. Pony Boy! aka.  <lots others>
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 03:57:19 GMT

In article <Yf2_Oaq00Vp5MBnFVu@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 16-Nov-92 Re: Comments during
>games Paul A. Lane@iastate.edu (594)
>
>> My test is what happens when I yell OGG THE BASE DAMNIT! If that doesn't
>> get people running, I might as well forget it and just scum.
>
>	Lot's of times it's a bad idea to Ogg the base.  I frequnetly find
>players on my team who feel that Ogging a base is always the right thing
>to do.  I hate them.
>
>R4->Rom OGG BASE NOW!!!!!
>R2->Rom Why
>. . .
>twenty lines of foo
>. . .
>R4->Rom Why is no one Ogging
>R2->Rom Now is a stupid time to Ogg.  Take Reg back instead.  It's Agri.
>. . .
>twenty lines of foo
>. . .
>R4->Rom You guys suck.  No one will Ogg.
>
>	Don't assume that a team that refuses to Ogg sucks.  A team that
>refuses to acknowledge that you asked, on the other hand. . .
>
>ZZnew guy
Of course, ZZ is well known for never wanting to og the base :-) To each
his own. A lot of times, I want to og the base simply because we're going
to have to eventually, and we might as well kill it before it picks up
5 or 6 escorts...I hate ogging bases through massive escort.

Even more commonly, I want to og the base even though I know it doesn't
serve any strategic purpose, because if I can get people to og the base,
then they'll stop putzing around by themselves in our backfield and go
do something useful...many times the momentum of a base og will get your
team used to being in the right part of the galaxy (the front part),
especially if it takes several waves to take it out (sometimes I'll
quietly og a different target to prevent the base from dying too fast :-)
Plus, once people start listening to each other to get the base ogged,
there's the chance they'll keep listening to each other, and you can get
some teamwork going. I've found that ogging bases is a great motivational
tool.

And finally, ogging bases is a lot of fun. Sometimes, I'll just forget
about winning for a while and teach the enemy base about oggers. The only
problem is that they pop too easily (darn it, that's the third toy I've
broken tonight! :-)

-Grey Elf
From: hadley@thoth.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:11:26 GMT

In <Af2OXuO00Vp3M0zGF5@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 17-Nov-92 Re: GB at LAR Tedd
>Hadley@codes.ics.uc (3478)

>> i'm-at-cmu-and-i've-never-had-lag-like-this-on-bronco
>>    lag.

>	Why is CMU singled out?  CMU teams have played at UCB, Reed, France,
>Flint, and Oz.  We've been against some really horrorific lag, and yet
>it's not us starting these things.  I understand some CMU-baiting, but
>this is undeserved.

   Ok, ok, I apologize.  I meant the kind of lag complaints heard from
   someone who's never played anywhere but on a local server.

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: mcp@cs.umd.edu (Mike Polek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA (Was: RSA gobbledygook)
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:20:05 GMT

In article <Bxz86J.GLo.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
>I have mixed feelings about this RSA stuff.  Part of me says "neat-o,
>an actual application of PKE," and the other part says "what a pain,
>this is overkill."  From what Nick Trown and Mike Polek say, it sounds
>like everybody even in the US that wants to play netrek is going to
>have to jump through some non-trivial hoops(*), and it will be even
>worse for the Europeans.  I don't think the effort is warranted, just
>
[...stuff deleted...]

>* If we could just ftp a binary and run it, that's fine, that's what
>we're used to.  If we have to decrypt it, using a key we have to get
>in the mail and using a crypt program we may not have and may not 
>be able to easily get, that's ridiculous.
>
> -- Bert  (Red Shirt)

Y'know. I'm in agreement. As far tas the clients go, there is only
one measly line of code that could be construed as RSA. Everything
else has nothing to do with RSA at all. It's all packet handling.
As such, I considered the "everything else" subject to world
perusal. And what do you know... those smart europeans figured out
the one line of code...  (or so I hear).

I did not release the key generation system, as that is the heart
of RSA (although it exists in PGP, but that's not my fault). 
Anyway, I'm willing to go ahead and make the BINARIES clear.
After all, it's only used for verification, and we're just as
interested in keeping the binaries from being cracked as anyone else.
I'd like some feedback from the net though. I have no wish to put
any sysadmins at FTP sites at risk. 

Since PGP is available as source code, I'd like to think we're
small potatos. I'm actually surprised that no one has done anything
about PGP in the first place. 

Alan, you're our resident expert on the legal muck-a-muck....
what do you think? 

Mike

PS. I feel that the source still needs to be crypted, but 
    there are fewer server gods and client builders than there
    are players. Also, the new clients are backward compatible,
    so any server not wanting to go to RSA (like discovery)
    is free to do so. 

comments? suggestions?


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:25:02 GMT

In article <BxzF71.AoF@ulowell.ulowell.edu> oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov19.192936.9458@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, gli@nyx.cs.du.edu (Garry Li) writes:
>|> 
>|> Today when I was playing netrek on patriot, some one logged in from MIT
>|> with a name Sun (dont remember exactly what follows) BOY. The funny thing
>|> is that he has make captain with 30 kills and 9 death. He has played for
>|> 2 hrs but took 170+ planet(27+ planet ratio) and 5+ bombing ration and
>|> 6+ defense ration. I thought that his stat may be messed up for soem
>|> reason but he said it was skill. :-)
>|> 
>
>Must be some other server...there is no one whose name has "boy" in it who
>is a Captain on patriot...
>

Actually, I found him. The user is jimhsu@W20-575-85.MIT.EDU, and the names
he used were Sum Yung Guy and Papa Bear, and he used Harold, Bob RAleigh,
and several others to T-mode scum. He was a Commodore as Papa Bear, and a
Captain a Sum Yung Guy. Here is a complete list:

Papa Bear
Ross Perot
Surgeon
Sum Yung Guy
Bob RAleigh
Bob RALeigh
Bob RALEigh
Bob RALEIgh
Harold
ERnest
Joe Bob
Muldaney
Ezekiel
Granny
yolanda
Yeech
Bippy
harold
boppy
bopyp
snotty
shamu.

His scumming came about starting at 6am on Nov. 14th, and went to 7:46am.
All his characters were deleted.

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: IC forfiets
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:27:46 GMT
	<1992Nov16.215941.10017@ll.mit.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	I'm under the impression that Greg picked the time for the game and
then found out that he couldn't get the players for it.  Sometimes this
sort of thing just happens.  It can happen to any team, and is more
likely to happen to an @large team.
	at any rate, the pick-up game was fun, even if George* does hate me now.

*ObMUCUS

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: My worst lag ever (was Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:56:54 GMT

> In article <Bxz2BF.CpJ@cs.bham.ac.uk> jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk writes:
> Well The ping times can be very good or very bad.... to discovery we 
> get between 150ms on a good day and the worst I have played is 400ms 
> which is appalling, Well I know of 20 or 30 people from Europe who play 

Heh heh.  400ms is apalling?  Then what's 2500ms with 38% packet loss?
I was playing with that on bronco on Friday (the high point was managing 
to bomb Romulus from 11 armies to 3 before dying to four very angry Romulan 
cruisers).  [The 38% was only temporary, 12% average throughout the game.]

> in the states watch the names uk nl ch il etc.  you will normally see 1 
> or 2 on discovery all the time. Well between 4 -12 pm GMT If you want 
> to be toast on a UK server then play at 5 pm GMT at netrek.cs.bham.ac.uk

I might give it a go sometime...  can't be much worse!!  

ICMP Redirect - SC bomber with lag
Death - scumming for Admiral with ratings 12+
danny - best base in the Southern Hemisphere
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: where to find "crypt" utility?
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:42:09 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

This has probably already been asked ad nauseam but I
missed it (I try to avoid nauseating experiences), so:

I got the encrypted client for my machine.

I got the key.

But I don't got no "crypt" utility. Where can one get
this booger for a vanilla Sparc 2? Please e-mail me
with the info, unless you think it's a sufficiently
common question to justify the many dollars your post
will cost, tee hee.

Thanks! What with the impending switch at bronco, it's
imperative that I get a working client...

Josh Hayes  IS    Garden Angel

the doctor  IS    at work on a Sunday
--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
        The future is fun! The future is fair!
   We may already have one! We may already BE there!
From: blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu (Jon Blow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 17 Nov 1992 08:16:41 GMT
Organization: Scam, inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sting.berkeley.edu

5150 writes:

> Utter bullshit.  Any USC team has to deal with the exact same kind of lag
> playing outside of Southern Cal.  We will play our games at calvin because
> it's the only advantage we can get. . .

So what you're saying is that you have the right to ruin other teams'
records just because you have a consistently lame connection.

  -H. Peacock
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: theodore@next09cville.wam.umd.edu (Theodore Jonathan Casser)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Reply-To: theodore@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:47:42 GMT

Herbert Enderton writes
> In article <1992Nov16.033637.9499@wam.umd.edu> theodore@wam.umd.edu  
writes:
> > > >I was in the hockey server on Sunday night, after 10,
and trying to play.    
> >Now, I realize I am no where near the best player on the net.  I have    
> >played with a few friends before, but not a serious game, and thought  
that   
> >a serious game might teach me a few things. 
> >What I did not need was Red Shirt making fun of me.  I know that I am   
>>rather bad at it.  But being insulting is not a way to help
me.  I am sure  
> >he meant it in the best way possible, to really help my game (that was  
not   
> >sarcastic.  I am sure he meant well.).  But it was not delivered in  
such a   > >manner. 
If that is how many veterans treat us newbee's, then maybe
you   > >should think about how the other person is going to
take it when you post   > >it on the message board. > >I
welcome all replys, flames or otherwise, at the address
below. > 
 
> Sorry, I was in a rotten mood tonight.  "Do you know how to shoot the
> puck?" was not intended as an insult, I really wanted to know, yes or
> no, and it frustrated me when he didn't answer.  That's a pet peeve of
> mine; often in a normal netrek game I'll ask my team "base og soon?" or
> something and almost never will people respond "yes" or "no".  Maybe
> they'll ogg it, maybe they won't, but apparently they don't think the
> question needs to be answered in either case.  But then afterwards I
> got more abusive and I really shouldn't have.
> 
> I still haven't found an effective way to give advice to a teammate
> without his taking it as an insult.  Anybody found a way?  It seems
> that most players think they know what they're doing.  (And if they're
> being completely ineffective, because what they're trying to do is
> futile, they think more people should help them do it!)
> 
>  -- Red Shirt
I would like to publicly apologize to Red Shirt for accusing him of  
insulting me.  He has sent me a letter which clarified what he was saying  
to me, and made clear to me that what was said was a genuine attempt to  
help me, and not intended as an insult.  I am sorry for thinking that you  
meant to make fun of me, and I hope you accept my apology.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
T.J. Casser  <theodore@wam.umd.edu>
"It's not what you know, it's who you know..."
Let's go Terps!
(301)314-8554   7114 Elkton Hall, College Park, Md 20742
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek