HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 11:18:17 CST
From: <U58898@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
 <BzEILs.Gt8@cck.coventry.ac.uk> <BzEq1L.7u@news.udel.edu>

In article <BzEq1L.7u@news.udel.edu>, jcarroll@ravel.udel.edu (James Carroll)
says:
>>>Who needs bear codes anyway?
>>>I am about 5'10", have greenish eyes, and have been told that I look
>>>like James Spader.
>>
>>That's exactly why bearcodes are handy.  Who the asterisks is James Spader?
>>And - more operatively - what does he look like? (And if you say "Well,
>>he looks somewhat like Jim Dilmore", I shall spank you, d'you hear?)
>>
He (James Spader) was in "White Palace" with Susan Sarandon (younger man/older
woman love story); "Jack's Back," a modern-day Jack the Ripper (in which he
played twins); and something with Rob Lowe that I don't remember the name of.
And he is a "major" babe.


BTW, hello everyone!
From: reykja@col.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "equal" or "same" roles
Date: 21 Dec 1992 01:48:55 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub.cs.itc.hp.com

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
> 
> Note: The Subject: line used to be "Re: Attack of the Seperatists", but
> this is a very tangential point so I changed it.
> 
> The word "same" does not have this same value-oriented baggage, and I
> think that it might have served better in the quoted paragraph above. I
> certainly agree that the oppressed and their supporters often cannot
> play the *same* roles in working for liberation. But I am not sure if
> any one role is necessariarly of greater value than another. I prefer
> to think of different roles having their respective values measured in
> different units (e.g., apples and oranges; volume and weight etc.)
> 
    Certainly they are all integral. Each of us contributes what 
s/he can and, hopefully, gets some results. 

    I agree that we don't have to place a 'value' on each role because
one can not function effectively without the others. Who can say
which is more important in a computer -- the keyboard or the monitor? 
One without the other is rather useless. 


> Certainly, I am convinced that this is a great way to view different
> activist tactics. For example: a Queer Nation kiss-in is worth 3
> apples, writing letters to local politicians is worth 2 oranges, and
> coming out to somebody in college/work is worth 1 pineapple; they are
> all valuable, but their values are measured in different units and
> hence their values are uncomparable.
> 
You are still implying that one unit has more value than another. 
Example: a Queer Nation kiss-in is worth three apples, writing letters
is worth 2 oranges and so on. Ultimately, it will still come down to 
which of the 'rewards' has more value. 


> In this posting I guess I am wondering out loud if this way of viewing
> the same way that I apply it to the division of different activist
> tactics.
> 
It is still placing value. 

Regardless of whether one is a supporter or a member of an oppressed
group, the effort will produce similar results. That is the ultimate
objective, right? Results?




Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:29:47 GMT

In article <BzDEq6.KCo@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>In article <BzC7on.8to@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>>Well, I'm 5'4", or 163 cm if you like those better, have hazel eyes
>>(how boring -- those cheesy romance novel heroines never have hazel
>>or brown eyes, always blue, green, grey, or violet, but who wants to
>>be like them anyway :-), and am having a Bad Hair Day.

I love hazel eyes.  I promise, Cathy, that if ever I write a cheesy
romance novel with a Significant Woman in it (as oposed to cheesy
romance fantasy-opera with two Significant Boys), she shall have hazel
eyes, just for you.

>Who needs bear codes anyway?
>I am about 5'10", have greenish eyes, and have been told that I look
>like James Spader.  

That's exactly why bearcodes are handy.  Who the asterisks is James Spader?
And - more operatively - what does he look like? (And if you say "Well,
he looks somewhat like Jim Dilmore", I shall spank you, d'you hear?)

>Cathy, you're right who does want to be like them.  Except for the amount
>of sex that they get.

Yes, but they get it with such dreadful men!  I mean, have you ever tried
kissing someone with a Stiff Upper Lip?

>And I *know* about bad hair days.

OK, OK, I don't.  What's a bad hair day?


				Kay
				
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Sexual consent (Was: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:12:01 GMT

In article <BzGv07.E2x@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>
>Ciaran writes:

>>I know a woman who feels that she was raped by a man she
>>knew. Some time afterwards (I don't know was it days, months or years
>>later) she confronted him with it and he was honestly baffled: he
>>thought that she had been consenting.
>
>I really don't see how one could fail to communicate "I don't want sex with
>you".  

Once, a woman that I was crazy in love with went totally limp on me.  If
I'd been younger, or more clueless, I might have "read" that response as
"consent", as it was I picked up "bad vibes" and sent her home.  I was
quite upset by the whole thing, thinking that I had been that close to being
a rapist.  

>I tend to view this defence on the part of a rapist as bogus, since
>not only should one back down when a response to a sexual overture is
>negative, 

Or apathetic?  Or passive?  Or when you ask if this is "ok" they don't 
say anything?

>it would be wise to desist when the other person doesn't respond
>positively.  

Again, what if they respond passively?

>If the other person isn't apparently enjoying the situation,
>how does that translate into consent?  That doesn't mean one must yell
>"Take me now or lose me forever, you big studmuffin!"  

Maybe one should say something to that effect.

The date-rape subject has made me muse on how it is we DO give consent
to each other in practice.  Has anybody of the decent social scientist type
written anything on this?  Somebody really ought to.  [*Term Paper Alert*]
>
>It would be a *very* odd situation in which I believed one participant
>thought consent was present and the other did not.  Too often it is an
>after the fact characterization propelled by regret, guilt, or justification
>by one of the participants.
>

You're probably right, but I think I can see how this might happen when a
"clueless" person (of either sex) who thinks passivity = consent runs into
one of those people (again of either sex) who "freezes" when confronted by
unwanted sexual attention.  Bad combo.  Both need re-education.

>>Ciaran.
>
>Brad



-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: NIN
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:36:20 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Edinburgh University

Quoting rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) in article <1gottbINN77g@agate.berkeley.edu>:
>The album is _Pretty_Hate_Machine, the song is "Head Like a Hole."  The
>whole album is choke-full of SMBD'ish music ... One of my favorite is from
>"Lies, Lies, Lies" ... "You give me the anger / You give me the love / Carry
>out my sentence / for I get what I deserve / I'm just an effigy to be
>disgraced / to be defaced / your need for me has been replaced / and if I
>can't have everything / well then just give me a taste / ... It comes down
>to this / Your kiss / your fist / and the strain / it gets under my skin /
>within / take in / the extent of my sin"

The song is "Sin", though the line you're thinking of ("Stale incense,
old sweat, and lies, lies, lies, it comes down to this...") is
wonderful.

I can't think of NIN as SM music; he's too hung up and fucked in the
head for that.  I will make an exception for one line which for me
summarises everything good about SM:

"My skin is begging to please"

but in context even that isn't about SM really.  Damn good album...
makes The Wall look cheerful.
  __                                _____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\ //
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul."  \X/ 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Is personality visible through email
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:12:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.141641.27714@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <1gltqpINNhsr@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>>[...] I just want to observe that I am still amazed at the
>>extent to which email can convey personality to a careful reader.  [...]
>>It's my HO that people project more of themselves than they think they
>>do, in the main. [...] I'm equally amused by misreads, I should add.
>
>When I met some soc.bi folk at the London Pride march and then up in
>Edinburgh, several people were surprised that I was not much like I
>appeared on the net. It appears that I come across as being 40+ years of
>age and have no sense of humour. I was amused when I met Kay Dekker and
>after chatting to him for about 5 minutes he proclaimed "You're nothing
>like what I expected. You're *smiling*!"

No, not quite fair; you've paraphrased what I said.  But that's a reasonable
rhetorical device, quite suitable for the point you're making.

The way that I conceived of you was not that you were 40+ - to my reader's
eyes I placed you around 24 - and certainly not humourless.  Deeply serious,
yes; even verging on the austere (one of my favourite theologians actually
speaks much as you write); but that implied only a humour with gravitas,
a quiet, considering, humour with more of sympathy for human limitation
than of censure.

I still think of you that way, but, having met you, I know that that is
merely one facet, a filtering artefact of the cold medium of the net, and
not the whole person; you are also Ciaran of the laughing eyes, the smile
that flickers from gentle through manic and back again in an eyeblink,
and the hug that can keep a cruel world away, if only for a while.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: De-muffinning 
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: BNR, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:30:10 GMT


Shelly DelVeccio wrote:
> Hi everyone. This is it! You're not gonna believe this, but I've been
> reading this group since January and this is the first time I've had the
> courage to post. I guess there comes a time when you just gotta do
> self-indulgent, incredibly short-sighted things...;-)
> 
> So here I am, hug me, quick!

*POUNCE*  HUG! and welcome.


       0  w     | Brad Booth             | "If somebody feels really good
      (_)-|     | Bell-Northern Research |  about who they are, they don't
  ____(_)_|__   | Ottawa, ON, Canada     |  feel threatened by what other
Happy Holidays! | bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Subject: "Straight Suck"
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:48:45 GMT


While in London last week I read in an entertainment magazine
of a new film starring Jodie Foster, Sigourney Weaver, and Jane
Acker entitled, "Straight Suck."  The magazine characterized it
as a "lesbian vampire movie."  Anyone else heard about this?  
Can you imagine the marquees next summer?  

Bob
From: moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Okay, I gotta problem...
Date: 13 Dec 92 14:10:32 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University


RE: btw this is my first post

In case this is one of the more apprehensive muffins I offer a gentle
warm hug with no unnerving gropes.   (If you aren't, then the extras
follow in the second post.)

Hop aboard Kim, 
*hugs*
Mo
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Attack of ...
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:01:06 GMT

In <lj1dm8INNf8k@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>>But what bothers me most, in discussions with anti-feminists, is 
>>a constant insistence that feminism is an anti-male movement.
>
>	To hot water, cold water may seem pretty "anti-hot".

Feminism is not anti-male. It is (closer to being) anti-patriarchy.
While patriarchy and male are related, they are not the same.

>>  To me, feminism is a movement about women, for women.
>
>	Women do not live in a vacuum separate from men.  If feminism were
>to state that women should be making world policy decisions and control
>world wealth, it would affect men and the movement is therefore about 
>more than "just" women. [There are a fixed number of material goods in the
>world and if women are allowed to compete for them on an even basis
>with men then men will become worse off.]

I'll borrow a phrase from Vikki (and direct it at you specifically
rather than at men in general). You just don't get it.

Freedom is the important thing, not material goods. Freedom is *not* a
limited supply. Granting freedom to one group, be it queers, women,
blacks, etc., does not mean taking it away from another group.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: safarj@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: Re: Lurkers
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:29:45 GMT

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>->I'm talking about real weirdos...

>...

>Then again, it's the net.persona issue again ... I have no idea how exactly
>I'm coming off, in terms of my personality ... I've had two or three cases
>when people approached me in some forum or another, talked, then said "You
>know, I'm really glad I gathered up the guts to talk with you.  You're not
>nearly as intimidating as I thought you'd be."  Intimidating? Me? Dear God
>... 

Roy, intimidating? <Cleans out his ears.> Yer right, I don't believe it...
When I think of Roy, I get this image of a big fluffy type person at a
keyboard.  Intimidating if you get between him and the power switch mayhaps,
but still... In the words of the Hitchiker's Guide: "Mosty harmless."
Hrm.. now, about this sudden spate of people recognizing me, mind telling
me what is going on?  And what is this about I rep?  I deny having one!
(What is it?) <Grin> 

>-roy

-Points (In a rather strange, silly mood... must be lack of sleep.) 
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (The Assasin's Guild)
Subject: Re: Okay, I gotta problem...
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:36:19 GMT

In article <Bz2wxn.EyE@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>In article <Bz2w9H.Eux@news.udel.edu> 41437@ravel.udel.edu (Kimberly Ann Reuter) writes:
>>>
>>kimberly ann reuter(kim) and the address is 41437@brahms.udel.edu
>>btw this is my first post
>>
>Grin 
>I claim credit for helping with this one.  
>HUGS and kisses to kim for becoming another one of the DE
>crew.
>Yeah us.

Good Lord, we're coming out of the woodwork.  (Better than coming on... that
would warp it) At this rate we'll dominate the group in... well... three or
four years.  Hugs and kisses to you for joining us Kim.. and to you Jim for
talking her into posting.
Yeah us!
				*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*
				*SQUEEEEEEEEZE*SMOOOOCH*
				Steve

| The Assasin's Guild           |  No matter how subtle the wizard...     |
| c/o Stephen C. Litterst       |   A knife between the shoulder blades   |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \   will always cramp his style.         |
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\_____________Stephen Brust_____________|
-- 
| The Assasin's Guild           |  No matter how subtle the wizard...     |
| c/o Stephen C. Litterst       |   A knife between the shoulder blades   |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \   will always cramp his style.         |
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\_____________Stephen Brust_____________|
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Subject: Re: Singing Queers
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:19:24 GMT

In article <Bz1F4n.AC9@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>I have been sort of trying to compile a list of Queer singers and
>performers.
>
>I know about Freddie Mercury, the lead singer from Right said Fred,
>Sophie B. Hawkins, Madonna, the lead singer from Erasure,...

How about kd lang!!!! (she came out just recently in the media.. but we all
knew she was a dyke long ago)  There's rumours about Melissa Etheridge and
Allanah Myles having a thing going together... All the gals in Two Nice
Girls (Kathy Korlinoff, Meg Hentges, Pam Barger (the ceeeeute drummer!) and
Gretchen Phillips (the lead singer - the other two are
guitarists/vocalists))... all are dykes, save for one who's bi (don't know
which one though).  Umm... who else... (you know, I just looked in my
collection of CDs (as opposed to another collection of CDs also belonging
to me but which have been given to me by people other than myself), and
nearly *ALL* of them are by queerfolk!  What does this all mean!! :) )

As I posted just before, the radio rumour-mongers told us about both Bobby
Brown and Whitney Houston being bi, but to be honest, I'd rather not know
about these two... am I the only one who finds these two characters
repulsive?

Umm... Elton John?  Is he queer, or just queer-friendly?  Mick Jagger,
David Bowie (she says, racking her brains for any rumours she may have
heard at any stage in her past 19 years)

I've run out of ideas.  Err.. Kate Clinton is a comedian (I *think* she's
queer), very funny woman.  Umm... that kid from ET (Drew somethingorother?)
.... who else.... dunno.

Hope that helps.... please let me know when your list is complete - I'd
like to use it during next year's O-Week's activities my campus group is
organising.

>The Indigo Girls - so are they the Purple Dykes?

One lives forever in hope :)

Cu later!


--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
Xref: sparky soc.bi:16950 soc.motss:53192
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Language and Gender (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:52:37 GMT
Organization: People's Front of Judea


You may be interested to hear this comment from one of America's
most astute cultural commentators, Joe Bob Brigs:

  JOE BOB'S MAIL BAG

  Dear Joe Bob: I recently ran across a book describing how to
  neuter language! In alphabetical order, the book examined every
  word that contained the letters "man", described how the word
  is sexist and how to change it to a neutral term. Usually the
  neutral term had twice as many syllables. The real brain-popper
  was this: The book had an entry for Mandarin and mandolin and
  stated that no change was necessary. So this wasn't really
  ferreting out terms and ideas that were sexist, but checking
  out words with "man" in them, regardless of context. A brain is
  a terrible thing to waste.
  --Edward, Olympia, Wash.

  Dear Ed: I agree that we should change the sexist terminology
  in the language. I've started calling my Mom a "momperson".
  --Joe Bob Briggs
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: yal@lingua.cltr.uq.OZ.AU (Yvette Lian)
Subject: new bi people
Organization: Rumour-mongering dept, the Land of Oz
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:13:33 GMT


Well, folks, it's official.  Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown are both
bisexual.  I heard it on the radio - it *MUST* be true :)

later!

--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists (was Re: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 14:51:56 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec17.211137.13492@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>
>By the way, I'm a Computer Scientist, but if you're going to work
>alphabetically then I might change career and become an Aardvark
>Specialist (whatever that might be) :-)

Aardvark says she'd be delighted.
--scott
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:17:12 GMT

In article <Bz439y.p9@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
 idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.000518.3111@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>
 dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>>You will?  Can you do one for me, too?  :)
>
>Yeah.  I hope you can print PostScript?  'cos that's how I'm doing
>them...

Maybe.  Actually I don't know.  But believe me, I will be looking
into it soon . . .

>>>6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
>>Okay . . . everytime I read this, I get curiouser and curioser.  You
>>don't happen to be planning on seeing Texas anytime soon, do you?
>
>Welll..... I *could* be... I think there's someone in Austin I may
>want to see...

Yay!  Just give me plenty of warning, or I'll be quite upset.  :)
I would pout for days if you were in Austin (so close!) and I
missed you.

>>Darren
>>(6'3", dark short hair, green eyes, bisexual and horny as ....)
>
>Oh, that clinches it!  I'll be coming.

*giggles gleefully, then wonders why everyone in the lab is
staring at him funny*

>    Kay

Darren
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: See Roy?
Summary: Look at the keywords.
Keywords: Here I am!
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:11:41 GMT

 See Roy?  Here I am!
<Bounces up and down above the sea of people posting to soc.bi.>
 Told you I was in here somewhere, believe me now?

-Jonah (aka Points)
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi