HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Stating relegion on IDs (Re: W/E News)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:40:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.180042@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.063804.17896@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>|> 
>|> 
>|>  I disagree with this statement. Greece is the only EC country
>|>  which neighbors to a non-Christian country. And this creates
>|>  a lot of political friction.
>|> 
>
>Could u plz explain the above?  Documenting relegion will probably
>cause friction with other EC countries rather than anything else.


 "Cause friction with other EC countries"? So what? Didn't Danmark
  cause friction for the very existence of EC? Didn't everybody
  bend in their demands?

  When EC guarantees the Greek territory against any other state,
  then Greece can bow to EC demands wrt her security.

  An identity card is a civil document. A document which creates
  differentiation between citizens and not citizens (eg permanent
  residents). Then why not to differentiate between religions.
  My argument is: 

1. On philosophical grounds, is that the state discriminates
   based on (eg) place of birth; then why not on crucial importance's 
   for its security philosophical beliefs.

2. On legal grounds, the constitution states that Greece is a predominantly
   Orthodox state. Freedom of religion is an other matter unrelated to
   security concerns (in which case the individual is subjected to state's
   will (as defined by the principle of democratic representation))

3. On practical grounds, countries have been created based on religious
   beliefs (eg Israel, Pakistan); Turkey IS acting as a "protector" of the
   Balkan muslims. Till all the relevant dangers disappear, then Greek 
   state owes to protect itself.


Gr

PS: The most "strange" appplication form seen so far was that from the
    "Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center". Not only citizenship and religion
     were asked, but also nationality...!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11758 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10229 soc.culture.europe:10698
From: chemae@jane.uh.edu (Todorov, Stanislav S.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: 19th century poems from Skopje.
Date: 22 Dec 1992 09:48 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
Summary: Skopje, land of Serbian culture.
Keywords: skopje, serbian
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1h5ddvINNp7@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic) writes...
>  Since the Skopjans on this net always talk about the creation of some slavic
>"Macedonian" nation in the 1880s, I decided to do a little research on the 
>matter and looked over several magazines published in that time period.  I ran
>across quite a few poems sung by Skopjans in the second half of the 19th
>century, many of which are about (surprise, surprise!) Serbian rulers and the 
>Serbian nation.

>  [stuff deleted]

> More Dunave, more!		      The sea, Danube, the sea!
> More beli Vardare!		      The sea white Vardar!
> More beli Vardare!		      The sea white Vardar!
> Vo srpska zemlja		      This is Serbian country
> Stara staroslavna.		      Old of the old glory.

Just a comment which may show that this is a language much closer related to 
Bulgarian than to Serbian after all.  You see, although "more" does mean sea, 
it also means, and is used here [and in Bulgarian folklore], as simply "hey 
you" [or "eh ti"].  

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>Regards,
>Milan Pavlovic
> 
> Yes, folks, yet another post easily proves that:
>===============================================================================
>		M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
>===============================================================================

It does?  A song in Bulgarian about Serbian lands proves they are Greek?

Seriuosly, I think we should recognize that there are many meanings to 
"Macedonia".
Certainly different people from different countries speaking different 
languages have a different _primary_ meaning for the word.  Sure, one of those
meanings is the northwestern Greek province of the same name.  However, it
certainly does not exhaust all the places, people and things that are 
called [or call themselves] that.  

What is a Macedonian?  --  Anyone [anywhere] who chooses to call him[her]self
that.  Which of course does not give him[her] exclusive rights to the name.  
And remember, he[she] probably does not put the same _meanin_ ainto it as would 
someone else using the same _word_.

My opinion, etc.

Slavi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject:  Dokimh -- Mutlu, get up and boogie ...
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 09:30:39 GMT

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From @earn.cvut.cs:karakoles@itm.Transylvania.Ro  Thu Dec 31 03:52:50 1992
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From: karakoles@itm.Transylvania.Ro (Demetrios Karakoles)
To: soc-culture-greek-post
Subject:  Dokimh -- Mutlu, get up and boogie ...
Organization: Universatatea Transylvanie, Ti.



    ...Parton  tsimpouki !!!


Dnmntrios Karakolns, Karpathia, Transylvania, Ro.



Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11930 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10294 soc.culture.europe:10867
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources that they use
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:03:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>No doubt who is pathetic here.

 That nameless unrecognised blotch on the map. MILS was promising us
worldwide recognition for "M" by Christmas. Oh, don't tell me, she was
using the Julian calendar.  Their next prediction of for late
January. Have you seen Monty Python? The skit where everyone is waiting
for the end of the world? When it doesn't happen, they come back the
next day...

>Why should Mussolini dictate a certain
>form of Macedonia on the map? Macedonia was not a hot issue in those
>days.

 Erland, you pretend to know everything, yet you always prove yourself
to know nothing. Pop Quiz:

 1. Who was in charge of Albania in the 1930s?
 2. (Essay) Why would the country of q. 1, have interests in Macedonia?
 3. What country whose name starts with a 'B' was Mussolini's/Hitler's
    best balkan ally during WWII?
 4. (multiple choice) When the country mentioned in (2) occupied most
    of Macedonia and Vardar during WWII, after the
    implementation of the Barbarossa plan, what was their
    slogan/justification?
        a. Macedonian Reunification
        b. All of the above

>Encyclopedia Italiana is a full-size encyclopedia in 30 books or so.

 And in the 1930s, all its content originated or was approved by the
facist party. Wanna bet?

Michael
                                                                                                                       
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Employment opportunities in Athens?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:49:22 GMT

In article: <1992Dec27.141439.14760@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
a fellow american netter asks:

>Kalimera!
>
>I have a question for all you greek.netters that I hope you can answer!  I
>recently visited my lifetime penpal for the first time ever last month in
>Athens.  And I had a blast over there!!!  I had the time of my life...so did
>he (my penpal).
>
>But anyway...there's an excellent chance I can go back to Athens again for a
>few months (instead of just a few weeks) during the summer of 1993...but I'm
>not sure I'll have enough money.
>
>My question is this.....is it possible for me to legally get a job over in
>Greece?  Whether it's as a waiter...teaching english...or in my field of
>electrical engineering, I don't care...anything that will pay money!  And if
>it is possible to get a job over there, can you tell me what I must do to go
>about getting one?  (I mean, what kinds of paperwork must I fill out, etc?)
>
>...
>
>advTHANKSance for the advice/insight!
>--Dennis

Dear Dennis,
well, in Spyros Triantafyllopoulos' answer you may have recognized the
typical sarcastic attitude that we greeks have for our country...
But, really, although I cannot give you too much information at this
point, let me say just a couple of words.

If you look greek newspapers with classifieds etc. (your best bet is
"TA NEA") you'll see plenty of ads for employment in english. They
represent either foreign or, very often, greek companies who look
for employees with good handling of english for their business wrt
to other countries - e.g. international cooperations
(many greek companies invest in Eastern Europe now), etc.
- or other reasons: there is presently a fever of expansions/acquisitions
of greek companies by foreign ones [see EEC!] etc. and, I think,
 they need qualified personnel like yourself.

I had to look at such ads because my fiance 
(as yourself, a U.S. citizen), will have to go 
through the same situation when we move to Greece. 
I was quite surprised seing in several of those ads the phrase: "knowledge
of greek an advantage" (!), i.e., apparently not even required.

As you know there are hundreds of thousands of foreign workers in Greece
presently - of course, the vast majority from the third world - while
every summer lots of tourists make money by jobs like waiters, etc. 
I sure don't know how much of this employment is ... perfectly legal
and I cannot help you with all the typical requirements. My guess
is that with your background you have  a pretty good chance anyway; and,
certainly, you can learn more about the legal requirements by 
responding to some of these ads...


Good luck and sorry for not being able to provide more help.

L. Skartsis
From: z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Import/Export Research
Date: 28 Dec 92 00:42:32 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Hello all,

	We are doing research on various items that international countries
would be interested in exporting and importing.  The items can consist of
anything from clothing to large machines.  Of course, they must be a legal
product to enter and exit the different countries.  These are some questions 
that we are trying to find the answers to:
 
1.) How would we gather information concerning the legal regulations on
	shipping to or from Greece? 

2.) Who would an individual contact in that country about shipping
	requirements?  

3.) What kind of licences or paper work does a company need to enter
	that foreign market place?


I really would appreciate any help concerning this matter.  Thank you very
much for your time and hope to hear from you soon.




Sincerely,


Ron Ables

********************************************************************************
Internet Addresses:
			z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
       			    
				   or
			   
			   sfa1@jetson.uh.edu

**********************************************************************************           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Turkish minority in Greece ????
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:56:50 GMT

In article <Bzn6Mt.9w6@cs.columbia.edu> vh@cs.columbia.edu (Vasileios Hatzivassiloglou) writes:
>
>To give an example : I completed my undergraduate studies in the University
>of Patras; there one could see some non ethnic Greek students who were
>all Palestinians or from other Arab countries; I never met one muslim 
>student from Thrace (while I met many ethnic Greeks from the same area)
>and I can see only two reasons for that : either all members of the
>minority are stupid/indifferent to higher studies (which I can't believe),
>or they were discouraged from enrolling in the University. Don't get me
>wrong on the last one; I'm not saying that if a qualifed minority member
>wanted to enroll he wouldn't be allowed, but that the conditions under
>which people of the minority live are much worse than for the rest of
>Greece, and therefore their opportunities for advancement are far fewer.
>That their life might be better than that of Turks in Turkey is 
>irrelevant to my original posting; I'm not comparing the two countries,
>I'm just saying that Greece is at fault too.


 You missed one more explanation: That they choose to study in Turkey.
 Which is actually, by far, the case. Like in Greece for the greeks from
 Turkey, their entrence is better secured there (plus the social set up),
 which makes them to go there.

 There is the factor of economics and sociology too; with an average
 family of 8 don't expect the same average behavior.


 Gr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ozanyan@imf.unit.no ("Ozanyan Krikor B.")
Subject: Help for the Univ.Thessaloniki address
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:46:16 +0000

Hi, everybody!

I am looking for some old friends in the Department of Physics, 
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, but having never used the E-mail 
connection, I have no idea how to get in touch. I was thinking about posting to
 the POSTMASTER if any of you helps me with the rest of the address.

Thanks in advance,

Krikor Ozanyan, 

Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim

<ozanyan@imf.unit.no>
<ozanyan@phys.unit.no>

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11749 sci.classics:1182
From: cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:51:50 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Lambros Skartsis (ls1@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote:
: In article: <BzGFH3.6Jn@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>
: cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:
: 
: >... The Romans got their alphabet
: >from the Etruscans, who got it from the Greeks. There is a dispute as to
: >whether the alphabet the Etruscans adopted was a west or east Greek
: >alphabet. Common sense would suggest that they got it from the nearest
: >Greeks to them, those in Cumae, who used a variant of the west Greek
: >alphabet. 
: 
: Richard, wasn't Cumae a colony of the greek city called Cyme, in Euboea?
: (the colony retained the name Cyme,  Cumae being the latin version).
: That is the only theory I am aware of (I can't pretend to have much
: knowledge on the 
: topic!), i.e., that Etruscans took their alphabet from Cyme. But did
: the mother-city (metropolis) in Euboea use the west form of the alphabet?
: 
: L. Skartsis

There is a tradition the Cumae was founded from the Greek city Cyme in
Aeolis in Asia Minor (just a bit north of Smyrna). Strabo says it was a
joint foundation of Chalcis and Cyme in Euboea, which explains its name
(he says that they did a deal that the city should be called after Cyme,
but be a colony of Chalcis) , but he also records traditions that it was
a colony of Chalcis alone, and gives another explanation for the name. I
would guess that this means that the Cyme stories are just attempts at
etymology (but who knows?).

Anyway, none of this is relevant, because they did use a version of the
Chalcidian alphabet in Cumae. I think the Chalcidian alphabet is
classified as a Western alphabet, isn't it? Perhaps somebody in this
group who can get to their university library without a long walk in the
freezing cold might check in one of the standard works on the Greek
alphabet (hint!). 

Richard Wallace
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: W/E News
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:05:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


|>
|> >cards. Mrs Virginia Tsouderou, Secretary of State for foreign
|> >affairs, warned the goverment against "the influence" of
|> >"International Jewish lobby" in particular in the US.>> (LNQ)
|> >
|> That, I don't understand. What has the "International Jewish lobby,"
|> in particular in the US, to do with Greek identity cards?
|> And what is the meaning of the "warning?" Does the sub-minister
|> agree with the act, or not?
|>
>
>It puzzles me plenty as well. I cannot see the connection either. But
>that is how the article went. It may be my poor translation from the
>French, but I do not think I misunderstood it.

 There must be something lost here. Not that there no politicians in
Greece that would make stupid remarks like that, but Ms. Tsouderos is
not the type. Perhaps her words were misunderstood by the author of the
original article. In fact I think Ms. Tsouderos is pro-Israel, at least
she used to be.

Comments?

Michael
                         
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu (Hariklia Delta)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:10:36 GMT


>bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:
>
>>>"Ev' va girisei n pita me to meli, tjai tha tnv fate dixws meli"
>
>>I don't know Greek nor have I heard this expression before so it's
>>NOT and CANNOT BE Cypriot. It's only Greek Cypriot.
>


  In the same way none of the Turkish Cypriot sayings is Cypriot since the
Greek Cypriots do not speak Turkish. In that logic there is not such thing 
as a Cypriot saying. Is that the next argument you will use against the 
unitation of Cyprus? (i.e Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots don't have 
anything in common so lets keep the country divided?)

         
                                                     ---  Xapa
From: pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: The map of Macedonia in the 19th century.
Summary: Territory north of Strumica-Bitolj is not Macedonia.
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:46:42 GMT
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu


  Hey Skopjans, you didn't think I forgot about you, did you?  Yes, I've been
pretty busy with the fanatics over on soc.culture.croatia, but I always have a
little time to spare when it comes to history forgerers from Skopje.

  I found a couple magazines from the 19th century which have articles about 
Macedonia and Southern Serbia.  One of them has a fine map, in color, which 
clearly denotes the border between Macedonia and Southern Serbia.

  It was published in the magazine "Brastvo" in Belgrade, in 1887.   Below, 
the stars ***** represent the borders of Macedonia as drawn by Milojko V.
Veselinovic in 1887.  So according to this map, only the towns along the line
Bitolj-Strumica are a part of Macedonia (I marked them both with O on the map).
What is that, 5-10 % of today's ex-Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia? 
Pick a new name, guys, Macedonia is Greek!


			\					I
     	                 \ 	      _____                     |   
                          \ 	     /     /    	        |
                            \       /      \_                   /   BULGARIA
\                             \_    |        \     Skoplje      \
 \_                             \  /          \       o          \	
   \__       Adriatic Sea        |_           |                   |
      \                            |          |          Strumica |
      /                            |           |Bitolj  *******O**************
      \                            |           |   O****_________/------------*
       \                           |  ALBANIA   \_*____/	              
 ITALY  \_                         |             |
          \                        |             |     Province of Macedonia
           \_                      |             |   
             \_                    |             /        G  R  E  E  C  E
               \                  /             |


Regards,
Milan
===============================================================================
		M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
===============================================================================
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS, Palikaria Terrorists and Makarios!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:36:22 GMT
Keywords: Palikaria, Enosis, PKK, Troodos Mts, South Cyprus, Palik dream

cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com ( 100) writes:

>In article <BzHKy0.AK0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>>
>>No point answering the ENOSIS part of the argument.  And please, my 
>>ears are not big at all.....A word of advice try to reduce your name
>>calling to people, you tend to be carried away..., and a request please
>>share with us the meaning of the word Palik, this is the second
>>time you are using it in this post.(Serdad Ar. refused to tell us so
>>far, he is the only other user of the word I know off..)

>Since the argument are about ears, I could not believe mine on
>what I am hearing from Michalis.  As if he wasn't the guy who
>cursed in his first or second posting in SCT, he now
>gives advice to Baysan.  What a turn around.  However, he is absulete 
>right in his name calling point.  Seems that he comes a long way since 
>his early days in this netwok.  Congratulations!  There is another

My cursing in the net was my reaction to a few repeated postings in 
Turkish. As I have told you in the past I do not curse people for no
reason. 

I appreciate your congratulations though, thanks.  Somebody else in the
net told me that people like me made him/her stop trying to discuss thiings
in the net, instead he/she decided to look for sincere Greek Cypriots to 
discuss things over. 

Thanks also for explaining the meaning of the world palik.
I really can not see the parallelism, but o' well people are
allowed to have different opinions.


>The real question in negotiations before resorting arms is the 
>arithmetic on who gets what rather than a united Cyprus.
>Therefore, GC must cut down on the rhetoric on the United Cyprus/TC-GC 
>brotherhood and face the realities that Denktas telling them in 18 
>years.  People who lived in that island know each other very well  
>that there was and is no bond and thrust among the inhabitants for all 
>these claims that GC's are making. I am sure the Atilla Line will move 
>a little bit to make it as a concession from the Turkish part.  
>They are willing to come down around 30% land from 36%.  Expecting more
>than that must be a palik dream after what has really happened in that 
>island.

The mistrust between GC and TCs was cultivated by people having 
specific interests.  The British, and the extremist among both 
communities.  
In places in Cyprus were the extremist groups were not influntial, like 
agricultural areas, there WAS trust and understanding between the people.

>C. Akgun
Michalis Syrimis
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe