HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: Here's $10 and 2 weeks, do me some good tech writin'
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:18:53 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1jnfejINNkg3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>   "We put off the documentation because we could let that slip with the
>least amount of pain."

>   We have a saying in our technical writing group: We're the people the
>engineers call in when they've only got $10 and two weeks left in the
>project.

>  Are we the only ones facing this kind of treatment?

Quote from the most recent copy of Intercom :

"Will the product development people ever get a clue about what it
 takes to write a manual? When I was young and naive, I thought I was
 the only technical writer in the world that learned about a new
 product two weeks prior to release."

You're not alone!

We're about to release an updated version of our software. In theory
my job on it should have been finished by yesterday (Friday).

I was still finding new things in the software on Thursday. "Oh yeah,
forgot to tell you about that one..."

I can offer little advice about what to do it with - speak to the
development manager and explain to her/him what your job entails.
Explain why you need time. Point out the benefits of getting technical
writers involved in the development process. Not onl do you get better
manuals but you often end up with a better product too.
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
 Technical Writer | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
   Wellington, NZ | Yes, I do have long ears, a black nose, and a tail.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: patk@sr.hp.com (Patrick Kearney)
Subject: Olympia Press Bibliography
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:15:39 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


I've almost completed work on a bibliography of the Paris Olympia
Press -- the outfit that first published "Lolita", "The Ginger Man",
"Naked Lunch" &c. -- and I'm anticipating trouble in finding a 
publisher for such an arcane book. Advice as to likely publishers
would be welcome.

Alternatively, the notion of publishing it myself is becoming
increasingly attractive. Producing camera-ready copy is no problem
with Microsoft Word for Windows; however, printing it out in such a
way that the pages print two to a sheet in landscape format with
the page numbers correctly sequenced for gatherings of 4, 8 or 16
leaves is very definitely a problem. I've had some modest success
with Microsoft Publisher, but only with brief pamphlets. The
Olympia Press project requires something with a bit more horse 
power. Has anyone had experience dealing with sort of thing?



--

**********************************     " 'Tis very warm weather when
Patrick Kearney			 *  	one's in bed.' "	
c/o Hewlett-Packard		 *		Jonathan Swift	
1400 Fountaingrove Parkway       *              Journal to Stella 
Santa Rosa, CA 95403.		 *			Oct. 26 1710
				 *
INTERNET: patk@sr.hp.com         *
TELNET: (707) 577-3460           *
**********************************
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dwight A. Haworth)
Subject: Re: Rewriting and the Textbook
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:14:03 GMT

LARRY GRIMM  writes:

[snip]

> As an aside, is there any interest in setting up a bulliten board for
> writers in the sciences?  The issues that arise in this genre are
> different than when writing fiction, or when writing for the "public."
> Also, would it not be helpful to establish a discussion on the
> emotional aspects of writing--the isolation, the effects on one's
> social life, frustrations, fears, the list is practically endless.  These
> aspects of writing cut across genres.

I for one would be interested in such a board.  I frequently read this
group because occassionally problems are discussed that also apply to the
problem of scientific (academic) publication.  My interest is in the
publication of research in outlets that are 'peer reviewed'.  Yes, I am
new to the business (Ph.D. 1990) and the clock is ticking.  Any help,
comiseration, etc. would be appreciated.

Conflicting reviews, as described in the original post, are a constant
amazement to me.  I'm never sure what to do when a reviewer declares that
sample size is not sufficient and yet there are statistical textbooks that
say the sample size I used is adequate and there is published work in the
literature with much, much smaller samples.  How do you handle it?



-- 
Dwight Haworth                  | "... I arrive at the conclusion that however
haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu        | a systems problem is solved -- the solution
                                | is wrong, even dangerously wrong."
                                |              C. West Churchman
From: jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Is there a FAC?
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:40:52 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: USC-ISI
In-reply-to: janeric@control.lth.se's message of 26 Jan 93 21:00:43 GMT

In article <JANERIC.93Jan26130043@bellman.control.lth.se> janeric@control.lth.se (Jan Eric Larsson) writes:

>Is there a FAC for misc.writing, where soem general ideas on
>publishing have been collected?

FAC?  Frequently Answered Conundrums?

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Sullivan             | Research Scientist et al.
jas@isi.edu (Internet)          | Information Sciences Institute
72511,402    (Compuserve)       | University of Southern California
From: mdm@sparc2.prime.com (Michael D. McAfee)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Rules of Thumb
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:47:30 GMT
Organization: Computervision


		The only thing I can add is

	Remember that for your story, you are the manager of a project.
	Others may make suggestions, but you must make the executive
	decisions.  In computerspeak, you must decide whether or not
	your "bugs" are actually "features."

	Hope this helps, and that your manuscripts don't "crash."

	Michael, the Chaotic
	disclaimer:  ignore this post, it'll go away
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Not revising - with a twist
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 00:25:11 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <mtan-250193144921@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu> mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan) writes:
>
>P.S. to Heinlein worshippers:  IMHO, some of his later stuff would
>have had substantially more  impact if some editor had had the guts (or
>the authority) to say to the great man, "Look, I *know* you're famous now,
> but that doesn't mean everything that comes from your pen  is sacred.
>Let's  cut some of the philosophical  musing, and
> tighten this  plot up a little, OK?"   [Please, folks, no flames!
> It's just an opinion!]

I was brought up reading Heinlein.  He was almost the only author I read for 
a while.  I read everything he published and I'd just like to say...

I agree with you totally.  In his latter years he wrote some very verbose
rubbish.  I read Friday but didn't really enjoy it and haven't been able to 
complete any of his other recent works.  I re-read another of his books
recently (Time Enough For Love I think) which I remembered as a really good 
fast moving story.  On re-reading I realised my mind had edited the book
and only retained the plot.  I now found the book slow and tedious and - 
again I didn't complete reading it.  There was already an enormous amount of 
redundancy in his books way back then.

On re-reading I was also using a politically mature as well as critical mind 
and realised that I could no longer stomach Heinleins political views.  The 
things he was slipping into my poor unsuspecting young mind.  Oh, it makes 
my flesh crawl to think about it.

Now _that_ will probably generate flames...

Derek "Have Flamesuit, Will Travel" Tearne


-- 
Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
 _______
 _______} This is a Usenet Condom<tm>.  Roll the condom over the .signature 
	  file before posting to protect yourself from .sig retro-virii
From: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: When to critique stories.
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:27:04 -0600
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

In article <185173@pyramid.pyramid.com> kathyj@pyramid.COM (Kathy Johnson ) writes:

>At what point in the process is the class critiquing a story?  I think that when
>a writer working on early drafts, it is good to focus on a particular group of
>goals or problems rather than point out every single thing that is wrong with a
>story.  This is like the training process you go through when learning to dance
>or learning to play an instrument.  When a person first starts learning a new
>skill or art form, they can only improve on pieces at a time.  Concentrating on
>too many problem areas at once can be discouraging and counterproductive. 
>Perhaps the teacher is attempting to keep the focus on particular problem areas
>at this time?

This brings up an important question.  When is the best time to submit a
story to a group.  I always feel I should submit a finished story to a
group.  Others like to submit first drafts.  I can see advantages both
ways, but I think most groups, upon reading my first draft, would just
tell me things I already know.  That's the reason for revising.  Any
ideas?


-- 
| Charles B. Owen                            Internet: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu |
| Western Illinois University                            Phone: 309-837-4292 |
| 1002 E. Murray                                                             |
| Macomb, IL  61455                                                          |
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: *** Why is rewriting bad ?
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:19:03 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University 

In article <1jfvbpINNr83@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>, stong@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong) writes:
> Robert Heinlein wrote an editorial listing the steps necessary to 
> succeed as a writer.
> 
>   1) Write.
>   2) Finish what you start.
>   3) Put it in the mail to somebody likely to buy it.
>   4) Never rewrite except to editorial request. NEVER.
>   5) Keep sending the story out until you've run out of markets.
>   6) Write something else.
> 
> They all make pretty good sense to me, except number four.  
> I don't believe he's saying that one should always be satisfied
> with one's first draft.  What is it exactly that he advises against ? 
> 
> Anyone care to make a suggestion ?


I don't think that Heinlien was advising to only write one adraft;
what I think he means in that once you have finished the piece
of writing and YOU are happy with it (and let's face some writers
need more rewrites than other :), then you shouldn't rewrite it
unless it has been accepted, and the editor wants a few minor
changes.

Comments anyone?



Morgana
********************************************************************
Reality is for people hwo can't handle decent fiction! :)
********************************************************************
miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au :)

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se (Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810)
Subject: Re: Here's $10 and 2 weeks, do me some good tec
Reply-To: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:06:13 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 1jnfejINNkg3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>
>Are there any other tech writers who read this SIG and reside on the bottom
>on the food chain?
>  
>  "deleted info to save bandwidth"
>
>   Now I've seen other tech writers on here talking about being valued
>members of the team, involved from day one; they've been put on patent
>applications; they've been given milk and honey; they've been succored in
>their hours of need. I find these claims hard to swallow.
>  Are we the only ones facing this kind of treatment?

This is what most of us have gone throught our entire careers.  I have 
been a tech writer for over 36 years and what you experience is typical
many times.  

Sometimes, we are consulted by others and are considered an integral part
of the team, but usually we come in at the last and have to meet unrealistic
deadlines.  All we can do is try to do our best and hope that next time
we get called in sooner.

As one poster mentioned, go the one of the conferences and meet some
of the others.  You will find many of us that have been there before.
Hope to see you in Dallas at the STC Annual Conference.

Jerry

==================================_=====================================
|| Jerry Blackerby          ||   | ~~   ||  Practice random kindness  ||
|| 214-907-7810 (w)         ||  \,  _}  ||  and senseless acts of     ||
|| exujbl@exu.ericsson.se   ||    \(    ||  beauty.                   ||
========================================================================
From: mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: non-fiction/fiction split
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:13:10 GMT
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC

While I can see the rational for creating  a non-fiction group,
I for one would rather see misc. writing remain as it is and
cover *all* topics.

One of my reasons is very selfish, but I think
applies to a number of us:  I write non-fiction for my bread-and-
butter day job and fiction because I imagine my  novel someday
being purchased as a *MAJOR MOTION PICTURE* and I want
to cast Mel Gibson or Kevin Costner in the male lead.  (I'm
entitled to the occasional fantasy!)  So the mix of fiction and
non-fiction discussion on this groups works well for me--
many of our discussions apply to both areas of my life.

Because posters to this group are unususally descriptive in naming
their posts , I've also found it very easy to avoid the topics
I'm not interested in--like detailed  discussions
of various computer software and parts of speech.

A possible compromise:  Perhaps we could follow Tipper Gore's 
example and start labelling our posts?  Something like (F) for fiction,
 (N-F) for nonfiction,  (G) for general, and (OU) offensive and
unfit for human consumption (i.e.: read me first).

Maureen  (a.k.a. Jane)

==================================================
Maureen Tan                                                                
                            Who dares,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign                           Wins.
mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
=======================================================
The opinions expressed here are undoubtedly *not* those of my employer!
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: non-fiction/fiction split
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:47:37 GMT

In article <mtan-260193100206@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu> mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan) writes:
>While I can see the rational for creating  a non-fiction group,
>I for one would rather see misc. writing remain as it is and
>cover *all* topics.
>

[reasons deleted]

	I agree with Maureen (or Jane).  If there was so much traffic in this
group that a reader had difficulty finding the fiction articles amongst the
non-fiction articles then it might be time to consider splitting the group.
To me, the current number of articles does not appear justify a split at this 
time.



>
>A possible compromise:  Perhaps we could follow Tipper Gore's 
>example and start labelling our posts?  Something like (F) for fiction,
> (N-F) for nonfiction,  (G) for general, and (OU) offensive and
>unfit for human consumption (i.e.: read me first).
>

	This is an excellent suggestion.  I use a threaded news reader, and I
could get through the OU postings much quicker if this were adopted.  (I am
resisting the temptation to re-label this article.)

Regards,
tony
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:34:12 EST
From: Robert B. MacMillan <RMACMIL@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Writing Erotica

i believe that erotica is an overused form of art these days.  if you truly
consider yourself a writer of erotica, keep a lid on it for a few years until
this madonna bullshit dies down.  remember that de sade and nin came long
before you, and that every other self-posessed artiste considers themselves
at one point or another a purveyor of 'erotica'.  if you are true, your style
will shine through, but not while there are too many other false diamonds
glittering.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: Rules for writers
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:54:25 GMT

In a recent misc.writing article, Ojvind Bernander wrote:

>Chris Carstens writes:

>>5)  Trying to write non-fiction without a complete written outline is like
>>trying to drive from Los Angeles to Dubuque without a map.  It can be done,
>>but it's not sensible.
>
>As long as you know your destination, you can follow the road signs.
>It is highly individual how well you mesh with outlines.  But you
>should indeed know the ending -- or _an_ ending:  you may change your
>mind half-way through the story.

But he isn't talking about writing a story. He's talking about non-fiction.
Your comments about having "_an_ ending" in mind lead me to believe that
you are talking about fiction. 

What is sensible for writing fiction may not be sensible for writing
non-fiction (and vice versa).

I have never met a writer of non-fiction who doesn't work from some kind
of outline. I myself use a very sparse outline, whereas others use much
more detailed outlines, but we all use outlines. (I'm sure there are
people out there who write brilliant non-fiction without an outline
or even an idea of what the book will be about before they start. I
have never met one, though.)

On the other hand, I don't use an outline _per_se_ when writing fiction.

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com
From: kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Karen Fegley)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: *** Why is rewriting bad ?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:02:18 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan21.203546.45088@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz  
(Thomas Beagle) writes:
>
>  . 
>  . 
>  . 
>
> ObWriting : When writing a manual, do you index as you go (and risk
> all sorts of incompatibilities) or do you index after the bulk of the
> manual is written?
> 

If I have my druthers, I wait to index until the bulk of the manual
is written, the draft has been tech reviewed at least once, and I
have incorporated the review comments.  I find that the closer I am
to a complete draft, the more consistent are the index hits that I
insert.  Also, because most of the of the *major* changes have usually
been made to the manual at this point, I spend less time indexing
material that gets dumped anyway and/or going back to index new
material that gets inserted.  (I don't always have my druthers...)

This is just my personal preference.  I know some of the folks around
here swear by the index-as-you-go technique.

Karen Fegley
Stratus Computer, Inc.
kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Xref: sparky misc.writing:4233 misc.kids:33225 rec.arts.books:26067
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: misc.writing,misc.kids,rec.arts.books
Subject: Spoonerisms
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:35:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan22.193800.2944@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> daj8m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Deirdre A. Johnson) writes:
>
>Yes, Dave!  The word is spoonerism.  ...
>
Two more:

"Pardon me, madam, you're occupewing the wrong pie.  Let me sew you to another
sheet."

"The Lord is a shoving leopard."

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: aimsm@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Malcolm Maxwell)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Rules of Thumb
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:37:17 GMT
Reply-To: aimsm@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Malcolm Maxwell)
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland

In article <1993Jan21.150128.20782@zeus.ieee.org> dprezios@ep.ieee.org writes:
>One rule of thumb I like (and I don't remember how I came to abide by it)
>is to never show a rough draft to anyone. Something about too many opinions 
>too early on.... 

I agree, although my reasoning is that if I'm going to be torn apart by
critics, I want to be torn apart for good reasons, not for things I
was going to leave out of the final draft anyway.

>Also, I try to get something on paper--WHATEVER it may be--
>WHENEVER I feel motivated. Thus the value of keeping a journal.
>Finally, if
>I don't feel motivated , I type up some of those old handwritten scraps
>(does anyone uses a pen and paper anymore?). [stuff deleted].

Sure, papers still of great use.  I've adopted a method Robert Prisig
suggested in _Lila_, of keeping ideas on reference cards.  This allows
any amount of rearranging etc without the usual problem of an entry
being encased in words as soon as you write the next one.  It also
allows the building up of related sections, with the system as a whole
being infinitely expandable in any direction.

It also forces you to be concise about your ideas, with space on each
card being limited.  This might not suit everyone, but its a great time
saver for me (I have a tendency to ramble).


&')
Newsgroups: misc.writing,misc.kids,rec.arts.books
From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton)
Subject: Re: Question - what's the word for ...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:39:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.042544.15891@bmerh85.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>
>Malapropism - "a usually humorous misapplication of a word; specif:  the
>use of a word sounding somewhat like the one intended but ludicrously
>wrong in the context" - Merriam-Webster New Collegiate Dictionary.
>
>       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself

Which calls to mind "solecism", which is similar, but is based more
on the idea of a corruption of a word, versus "malapropism's"
inappropriateness.

Solecism comes from the ancient city of "Soli", near Tarsus, and far from
Greek, so the Greek settlers there spoke a rather provencial form of the
language that the Athenians et al considered hilarious.

(I wish I could think of a good example of one versus the other.  Maybe
someone else can.)

Now, I seem to almost recall that there is yet ANOTHER term for mixed-up
speech.  Maybe I am just thinking of "spoonerism", or maybe I am recalling
some logical (rather than verbal) confusions, such as "a tautology" or
whatever.  Any suggestions on what I am forgetting?

BTW, is there a name for Dan Quayle's "A mind is a terrible thing to
loose"?  It seems to almost be a malapropism, but I am not sure.  (As for
Dan's assertion that there are canals on Mars, and water and, air, and
it's in the same orbit as earth and we could live there, well I think
that's called "dumb".)

Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ilana@monitor.com (Ilana Levenson)
Subject: Indexing books
Reply-To: ilana@monitor.com (Ilana Levenson)
Organization: Monitor Company / IE
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:25:02 GMT

Does anyone know of any good indexing books?

I am a software user guide writer and have been looking for indexing books  
for a while.  Excercise books, text books, etc...  (I'm new to the net, and  
this seems like the right place to inquire about indexing books.)

Thanks in advance!

ilana@monitor.com