HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:         loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton)
Subject:      re: Sharp APL (really SAPL and APL2 arrays)
X-Telephone:  +1 (416) 364-5361 Fax +1 (416) 364-2910 Telex 0622259
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
X-Mail:       1900/2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Canada, M5X 1E3
Date:         30 Sep 92 22:26:46 UT

 I hope someone else gives you a definite reference. I'll just briefly mention
that Trenchard Moore proved to his own satisfaction (and to the satisfaction of
everyone else who cared to look into his proof) that the two schemes are
fundamentally equivalent, ie there are no important differences on any deep
levels. This was before anyone implemented either scheme.

 Our enclose (which many people call box) and the STSC/NARS definition (adopted
by APL2) differ primarily in that APL2 says that enclose of a scalar returns
the scalar unchanged, while we (Sharp) say that the enclose of any object is a
new, different, object. There are many differences in the two systems, some of
which are tracable to this distinction (the different definition of reduction,
for example, is inextricably mixed up with this issue), and some of which are
not (the pervasion of functions into the depths of APL2 arrays has absolutely
nothing to do with the definition of enclose, regardless of what some APL2
supporters might suggest). APL2's extended use of strand notation is another
place where Sharp APL seems significantly different, but again the reason has
nothing to do with the choice of enclose axiom system.


 You didn't say why you asked your question, so I don't know if this is any
help; I hope it's of *some* use../Leigh

--------------------------------------------------------
It's only work if somebody makes you do it    .../Calvin
--------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Clayton                  loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM
    -or-                     loc@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM
Newsgroups:   comp.lang.apl
From:         dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gillett, David)
Subject:      Re: j 5.1, pc, 386
Reply-To:     dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gillett, David)
Organization: Reuters Information Services (Canada)
Date:         26 Sep 92 21:00:04 UT


-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------


no. 6605223 filed 20.26.50  sat 26 sep 1992
from dgil
to   uclapl
subj Re: j 5.1, pc, 386
ref  6604685

     Rob Bernecky has suggested a couple of ways in which J's storage 
management could be improved over raw use of the local C compiler's malloc() 
and free() implementation.
     Three of his four suggestions do nothing about heap fragmentation. Unless 
that is addressed, it will normally be the case that total heap space available 
is greater -- perhaps by an order of magnitude! -- than the size of the largest 
object which can be created.  It seems to me that either number might be needed 
by the programmer, so quadWAprime should probably return both values -- which 
makes it no longer strictly analogous to quadWA.

     But ... none of Rob's suggestions addresses the question of virtual memory 
(which Roger has raised) except to delegate that question to the hypothetical 
"heap manager".  I rather expect that the only way to write a *portable* heap 
manager is to do it in terms of malloc()/free() (or perhaps sbrk()); basically, 
to allocate ALL available heap memory to the heap manager, and have it dole it 
out to the rest of the interpreter as necessary.
     I can see two down sides to this.  One is that, particularly on small 
systems, heap space (even virtual heap space) tends to be shared out to all 
processes as requested.  Grabbing all of a system resource like this is not 
multitasking-friendly.  (You can solve this for some particular target system, 
but I don't think it can be portable.)
     The other difficulty is that if every J task requires, from the system's 
perspective, the maximum possible memory allocation, small-to-medium size J 
applications risk taking an unwarranted performance hit from the system's 
memory manager.  (Sure, you can tell people that the fix for their J problems 
is to get an OS that's smart enough to out-guess programs that allocate memory
and then don't "really" use it....)

     I think that the best that can be done, practically and portably, is
something like a primitive which takes a size and returns a boolean:  If I
were to try to create an array of size n, would there be enough storage to do
that?  A portable implementation could just see if malloc() succeeded, and if
so then free() the space again; a tuned implementation could conduct its own
negotiations with the system heap facilities.

                                      Dave Gillett


-----------------------------------------------------------
This posting is forwarded from an internal Reuters mailbox.
No statement or opinion contained herein should be taken as
being Reuters policy, or even as being approved by Reuters,
in any way.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: wchang@phage.cshl.org (William Chang at Cold Spring Harbor Lab)
Subject: Re: APL2/6000 hardcopy graphics
Keywords: AIX, postscript
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab, Long Is New York
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:36:32 GMT

At last week's NY-SIGAPL meeting, Peter Welch (creator of
"grafstat", now AGSS) said true postscript output is almost 
ready.  He is indeed trying to get more people to use AGSS 
on the RS/6000.  Call Peter at 914-784-7560 or Alvin Blum 
at 914-784-7563 for info.

Speaking of hardcopy, what about source code?  As far as 
I know IBM doesn't distribute a postscript APL font.  
I have managed to modify Adrian Smith's postscript font
to work transparently with APL2/6000.  Now I can view and
print APL source code from outside the APL environment.
I tried very hard to make an APL keymap for X windows 
(so I can edit APL code using vi; do grep; etc.) but AIX/6000
appears to come with non-standard keysyms or a buggy xmodmap
or both.  Has anyone else tried this?

-- Bill Chang  
Cold Spring Harbor Lab., NY   (wchang@cshl.org 516-367-8866)    
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: bstrohm@erasmus.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (Bernhard Strohmeier)
Subject: Re: "Grenander" APL-Workspace wanted
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 14:05:10 GMT
Reply-To: bstrohm@erasmus.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (Bernhard Strohmeier)
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld

Sorry, I gave the wrong email address.
If somebody has some information about the Grenander workspace, send it
to bstrohm@erasmus.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de, please.

Thanks,

Bernhard Strohmeier



Newsgroups:   comp.lang.apl
From:         mgf@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gfeller, Martin (zurich K6,network Prod))
Subject:      Sharp APL arrays vs. APL2/APL*Plus II arrays
Reply-To:     mgf@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gfeller, Martin (zurich K6,network Prod))
Organization: Reuters Information Services (Canada)
Date:         30 Sep 92 23:00:05 UT


-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------


no. 6617529 filed 22.43.33  wed 30 sep 1992
from mgf
to   uclapl
subj Sharp APL arrays vs. APL2/APL*Plus II arrays
ref  Message-ID: <1992Sep29.192450.3393@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

A classic reference is W.E. Gull, M.A. Jenkins: Recursive Data 
Structures in APL, CACM Vol. 22, No. 1, p. 79, January 1979. It's not 
specific to any implementation, but defines the theory of the 
different schemes. 

A reference specific to SHARP APL is: R. Bernecky, K.E. Iverson: 
Operators and Enclosed Arrays, SHARP APL User's Meeting 1980, p. 319, 
I.P. Sharp Associates (now Reuters APL Software Division). 

There are also some papers in the yearly ACM APL conferences that 
discuss this and related (e.g., rank vs. depth) issues. P.J. Benkhard, 
J.A. Brown (APL2 side) and R. Bernecky, K.E. Iverson (SHARP APL side) 
are amongst the authors of relevant papers.  

/Martin


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Kleinstrasse 6, CH-8008 Zurich, Switzerland; mgf@ipsaint.ipsa.Reuter.COM;
Phone [+41 1] 251 23 00; Fax [+41 1] 262 17 92
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------
This posting is forwarded from an internal Reuters mailbox.
No statement or opinion contained herein should be taken as
being Reuters policy, or even as being approved by Reuters,
in any way.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
From: dandrews@bilver.uucp (Dave Andrews)
Subject: Re: VSAM Question
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Distribution: inet
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:00:28 GMT

In article <9209291218.AA25935@nettlerash.berkeley.edu> IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
>Hello All,
>   We have MVS/ESA 4.2 and Assembler H v2.0.
> I'm trying to read a VSAM user catalog and then extract the
>cluster names and put them on a separate file, same as IDCAMS
>LISTCAT command then after that I want to check if the cluster
>names is a KSDS or ESDS structure if so I want to check CI and
>number of extent for that cluster, I've used the SHOWCAT and SHOWCB
>Macros but with out any sucesseded .

Assuming that your VSAM user catalog is ICF, it is possible for you
to open the user catalog directly as a KSDS and read the cluster
record yourself.  This has a tremendous speed advantage over having
to post-process IDCAMS listings.

Unfortunately, the DFP documentation these days neglects to point out
that you can do this.  Also, IBM has ceased distributing the record
layouts for ICF catalogs.  If you have access to older (DFP1) catalog
PLMs then you can find the descriptions of the records.

At SHARE, IBM is none-too-subtly discouraging us from directly reading
ICF catalogs, but they haven't given us any alternative yet.

If this interests you, contact me and I'll tell you what I can.

- David Andrews
  A. Duda and Sons, Inc.
  1975 W. Broadway
  Oviedo, FL  USA
  407-365-2153
  dandrews@bilver.oau.org
From: grendel@CIS.KSU.EDU (Stephen Spencer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: 370 reference
Date: 24 Sep 92 22:33:08 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

In article <1992Sep24.071228.23464@sobeco.com> alawrenc@sobeco.com writes:
>
>It all depends on which operating system or systems you S/370 is running.
>Do you have DOS/VSE, OS/VS1, OS/MVS or VM/CMS.

VM/CMS

-Steve

--

Stephen Spencer		grendel@cis.ksu.edu		sdstpk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Kansas State Univ.
From: jim@auvm.UUCP (Jim McIntosh)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: duplications in comp.lang.asm370
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:52:40 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

In article <1992Oct2.155928.23176@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk
(Alasdair Grant) says:
>Could someone have a look at comp.lang.asm370 please? All messages
>submitted from Usenet appear to be duplicated - perhaps the BITNET
>gateway is reposting to Usenet all messages, even those _from_ Usenet.
>Could be because the group is not of the form 'bit.listserv...'?
>This has been going on for years, but it's such a dull group I guess
>nobody's ever bothered to say anything.

Boring? LTR? BXLE? MVCL? ICM? These are the stuff of life!  :-)

I took a look at this a while back. The reason comp.lang.asm has
duplicates is that Erik Fair's gateway at ucbvax does not preserve
Message-ID's. (I suspect it is subscribed to ASM370 without the FULLHDR
option and so Message-ID's are not sent to it.) Regardless of the reason,
the gateway to comp.lang.asm370 is disregarding Message-ID's and is
generating new ones for each post. This results in duplicate posts to
comp.lang.asm370 since duplicate posts have no way of being detected
without the Message-ID tag.
---
Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
From: rabbi@KIWI.GEN.NZ ("", Rabbi Bajzheet)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: IBM 3750 question
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:24:05 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

[ Article crossposted from junk ]
[ Author was  ]
[ Posted on 1 Oct 92 19:03:20 GMT ]

A friend of mine has recently bought an IBM 3750 Communications Controller.
Apparently it multiplexes the i/o of a number of terminals, and sends the
resulting packets down a phone line to the mainframe. In this instance, the
3750 was in Auckland and the computer was somewhere in Australia.

All the date stamps we can find on it say it was made in 1980, but the design
looks a bit older than that.

BTW, this thing is BIG, like 1.7m*0.7m*0.8m...

So, does anyone know anything about these things? We're not planning on getting
it going, as getting three phase power into a residential home is a bit tricky
:-)

With te mux came 15 IBM 3782 terminals (think I got the number right - lost the
piece of paper :-( )... Anybody know if these are ascii/ansi compatable? Or do
they use ebcdic or something equally arcane?

Any information of any sort would be appreciated!

Oh, in case anyone's wondering, all this, plus 2 ITT terminals and 2 Memorex
terminals, cos NZ$50 (about US$25).

--
Rabbi Bajzheet - The Hooded Oesophagus   __o `God needs food, badly!'
Usenet: rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz             _`\<,_   - Friedrich Nietzsche
Snail: 12 St Aubyn St, Devonport, AK (_)/ (_) Voice: +64 09 445-1186
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: IBM 3750 question
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:54:26 GMT

In article <23023.2759215168@kiwi.gen.nz> rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet) writes:
>A friend of mine has recently bought an IBM 3750 Communications Controller.

Most likely a 3705, which was IBMs primary communications controller 
for many years.  Came in both communications and channel attached
versions.  You have the former.

>BTW, this thing is BIG, like 1.7m*0.7m*0.8m...

Thats a small one.  The big ones are about 4m long, same height & width.

>All the date stamps we can find on it say it was made in 1980, but the design
>looks a bit older than that.

I think they came out in the mid 70's.

>With te mux came 15 IBM 3782 terminals (think I got the number right - lost the

Could they be 3278's?  This is an ebcdic CRT from around the same era.
Needs to be connected to a 3274 or 3174 controller, which can be either
channel attached or communications attached.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
From: CCA3407@SAKAAU03.BITNET ("Saad M. Al-Harthi  695-2211", 02)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: VSAM Question
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:19:15 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:06:32 G+3

Hello All,
   We have MVS/ESA 4.2 and Assembler H v2.0.
 I'm trying to read a VSAM user catalog and then extract the
cluster names and put them on a separate file, same as IDCAMS
LISTCAT command then after that I want to check if the cluster
names is a KSDS or ESDS structure if so I want to check CI and
number of extent for that cluster, I've used the SHOWCAT and SHOWCB
Macros but with out any sucesseded .

The following diagram shows the process:

open UCAT --> look for cluster names --> Put them on output file -->
check KSDS,ESDS -->yes > Check CI and NEXT values

What I've did is as follows
I do LISTCAT using IDCAMS services and put the output on a seq. file
I do read that file and extract the cluster names  and create
a JCL statments then I wrote another program to take these statements
and open each file and check it.
 So I had three subroutines :
  1 - Read the output of IDCAMS LISTCAT CLUSTER and extract the cluster
      names and put them on a sequancial file.
      //EXTRACT   PROC  MEM=MEM
      //STEP1     EXEC  PGM=MYPROG,REGION=1024K
      //INFILE    DD    DSN=&MEM.,DISP=SHR
      //OUTFILE   DD    SYSOUT=*
      //          PEND
      //FILE1    EXEC EXTRACT,MEM=clustername1
      //FILE1    EXEC EXTRACT,MEM=clustername2
        ..        ..      ..
  and so on
    On the program iitself I have defined the DDname AS
      INFILE    ACB  ..,DDNAME=INFILE,...
I tryed  to use dynamic allocation but I failed to do so.

any help will be apreatuated.

Thankx in advanced.

Saad Al-Harthi.
From: AANANJEV@ESOC1.BITNET ("Ananjev, Andrew / IKI.")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: 370 reference
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:08:40 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:31:41 MSK

>Sorry if this is a silly question, but is there a good source for system
>calls on an IBM370?  We've been using the ASSIST macros, but I am also
>interested in knowing what the actual methods are (ie: how do I *really*
>output to the screen or get a character :)

  If your operation system is VM/CMS it is very convenient to study how
  do virtual machine  *realy* makes input and output. VM emulates all
  I/O operations as it described in S-370 principles of operation.

  CMS has a few levels to organize I/O for users program, but as it
  runs in (virtual) supervisor mode all privilege operations including
  SIO are available to programmer. So you can write your own CCW and
  run it. If you only interesting what CMS does, you can trace SIOs and
  SVCs.

  CMS also helps user to handle interrupts from various (virtual)
  devices in case I/O operation have finished normally or with errors.
  If you do not wish any interference (such as interrupt handler) you
  can run your program in standalone mode (use 3CARD LOADER file with
  object deck of your program for ipl-ing from virtual card reader).

  Now a few words about entering characters from terminal. There are
  two cases. First is when CP emulates a typewriter device as x'009'
  or x'01f' virtual console. In this case CMS performs more or less
  ordinary I/O operations using SIOs.

  The second way to run I/O at the terminal is so called fullscreen
  method which use DIAGNOSE calls of CP. It is impossible for CMS to
  use it's console in fullscreen mode directly by using SIOs, because
  x'009' or x'01f' is emulated typewriter. In this case CMS or any
  other program running at virtual machine needs an assistance of CP.
  It can use DIAGNOSE to "attract attention" and to "ask" CP to perform
  various functions, to start CCWs on discs, tapes and terminals and so
  on.

  But in both cases (typewriter and fullscreen) S-370 do not support
  character-by-character way of input/output (for any devices). All
  I/O activity starts after pressing "ENTER" which produces an interrupt
  Then the whole line, screen or only modified fields of the screen
  will be entered.

  If you *realy* need to realize character-by-character method, I think
  it is possible to do using CCWs with PCI flag. But I think it is
  better not to do without severe necessity.

Best regards, Andrew Ananjev, Head of software support group.
Space Research Institute (IKI), Moscow. Phone: +7-095-333-24-02
From: tpa10@snappy-tom.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Thomas P. Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: VSAM Question
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:12:35 GMT
Distribution: inet

In article <1992Sep30.150028.22228@bilver.uucp>, dandrews@bilver.uucp (Dave Andrews) writes:
|> In article <9209291218.AA25935@nettlerash.berkeley.edu> IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
|> >Hello All,
|> >   We have MVS/ESA 4.2 and Assembler H v2.0.
|> > I'm trying to read a VSAM user catalog and then extract the
|> >cluster names and put them on a separate file, same as IDCAMS
|> >LISTCAT command then after that I want to check if the cluster
|> >names is a KSDS or ESDS structure if so I want to check CI and
|> >number of extent for that cluster, I've used the SHOWCAT and SHOWCB
|> >Macros but with out any sucesseded .
|> 
|> Assuming that your VSAM user catalog is ICF, it is possible for you
|> to open the user catalog directly as a KSDS and read the cluster
|> record yourself.  This has a tremendous speed advantage over having
|> to post-process IDCAMS listings.
|> 
|> Unfortunately, the DFP documentation these days neglects to point out
|> that you can do this.  Also, IBM has ceased distributing the record
|> layouts for ICF catalogs.  If you have access to older (DFP1) catalog
|> PLMs then you can find the descriptions of the records.
|> 
|> At SHARE, IBM is none-too-subtly discouraging us from directly reading
|> ICF catalogs, but they haven't given us any alternative yet.
|> 
|> If this interests you, contact me and I'll tell you what I can.
|> 
|> - David Andrews
|>   A. Duda and Sons, Inc.
|>   1975 W. Broadway
|>   Oviedo, FL  USA
|>   407-365-2153
|>   dandrews@bilver.oau.org

There are a couple of ways to go about this, but I before you go too far afield
please describe what happend with SHOWCAT.  It really seems to fit your needs.
An alternative is to use SVC 26 (LOCATE), building your own CTGPL (forget about
CAMLIST), but this is a little tricky.  Better to debug your SHOWCAT program.
 
Mail me if you need help.
 
Tom A.
tpa10@css.amdahl.com
 
PS  Hi Dave!
From: dandrews@bilver.UUCP (Dave Andrews)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: VSAM Question
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:00:28 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

In article <9209291218.AA25935@nettlerash.berkeley.edu> IBM 370 Assembly
 Programming Discussion List <ASM370%UGA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
>Hello All,
>   We have MVS/ESA 4.2 and Assembler H v2.0.
> I'm trying to read a VSAM user catalog and then extract the
>cluster names and put them on a separate file, same as IDCAMS
>LISTCAT command then after that I want to check if the cluster
>names is a KSDS or ESDS structure if so I want to check CI and
>number of extent for that cluster, I've used the SHOWCAT and SHOWCB
>Macros but with out any sucesseded .

Assuming that your VSAM user catalog is ICF, it is possible for you
to open the user catalog directly as a KSDS and read the cluster
record yourself.  This has a tremendous speed advantage over having
to post-process IDCAMS listings.

Unfortunately, the DFP documentation these days neglects to point out
that you can do this.  Also, IBM has ceased distributing the record
layouts for ICF catalogs.  If you have access to older (DFP1) catalog
PLMs then you can find the descriptions of the records.

At SHARE, IBM is none-too-subtly discouraging us from directly reading
ICF catalogs, but they haven't given us any alternative yet.

If this interests you, contact me and I'll tell you what I can.

- David Andrews
  A. Duda and Sons, Inc.
  1975 W. Broadway
  Oviedo, FL  USA
  407-365-2153
  dandrews@bilver.oau.org