HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaker@apple.com (Mark Aaker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Any problems with U.S. Savings Bonds?
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:42:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA


Does anyone know any reasons to avoid U.S. Savings Bonds
over the next five year period?

My employer is starting an automatic payroll deduction
program for them next month, and I'm interested in
evaluating what the possible "downside" might be.  I'm
planning this for a savings cushion that I might need for
an emergency.  I don't plan on needing the money for any
near-term use.  The literature describing the program tells
all the wonderful advantages of regular savings, but doesn't
mention any possible negatives of the program.  Any pointers
to recent magazine articles would also be appreciated.
THANKS!    aaker@apple.com

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: What is Venture Capital??
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:30:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.232922.17123@gumby.dsd.trw.com> suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.004502.4526@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>You are right, of course, to
>>note preferred stock has preference over common stock if the
>>company is liquidated, and for dividend payments as well if
>>dividends are suspended.  
>
>When I went to the stock market classes, the instructor/broker
>suggested that there are lots more common stock holders then preferred
>stock holders.  If the company was in some sort of liquidation, the
>common stock holders would take a vote and eliminate the accumulated
>dividend for the preferreds, leaving them out in the cold.  I have no
>direct experience with this scenario, but it made sense to me.

Sounds very odd.

The normal propspectus for preferred stock states that a vote of the
preferred stockholders is necessary to cancel the cumulative
requirements.  It might even require a supra-majority.   This is one
of the few items which does require approval of preferred shareholders.

If the preferred is cumulative -- and I think all preferred today
is, then I would be really surprised if it does not carry that
provision.  (Why would anyone buy so-called cumulative stock if
someone else, not the holders,  can cancel that provision?)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: geopi@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (george.p.cotsonas)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Great American Recreation Corp (GRARE)
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:57:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep10.010632.5518@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
> In article <SHAH.92Sep9101745@santur.tay1.dec.com> shah@tay1.dec.com (Amitabh Shah) writes:
> >> Has anyone heard of either GRARE or Hibbard, Brown & Company?
> >
> >I haven't heard of GRARE, but if what I have heard about Hibbard Brown is
> >true, then they are in the same class as Used Car Salespeople,
> >televangelists, and Republicans :-). 
> 
> Why you you gratuitously insult these fine salespeople, evangelists
> and republicans by putting them in the same league as Hibbard
> Brown? 

Indeed!  From what I have heard, Hibbard Brown is in the same class with
First Jersey Securities, now defunct firm which brought GRARE public.
I lost money on GRARE, and First Jersey Suckurities was the absolute worst,
lying silver-tongued self-servicing scum of the brokerage world,
to be brief.
-- 
George P. Cotsonas
AT&T BL/CPL
att!hocpa!geopi
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Great American Recreation Corp (GRARE)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:22:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.204305.22402@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
>|>Indeed!  From what I have heard, Hibbard Brown is in the same class
>with
>|>First Jersey Securities, now defunct firm which brought GRARE public.
>|>I lost money on GRARE, and First Jersey Suckurities was the absolute
>worst,
>|>lying silver-tongued self-servicing scum of the brokerage world,
>|>to be brief.
>
>myself.  I complained to the net about Hibbard Brown awhile back. 
>Someone back then said that
>Hibbard, Brown  used to be called something like "First Jersey
>securities".  But had
>be gotten into trouble with the SEC and had disbanded and reformed under
>the name
>of Hibbard, Brown.
>
>This is incredible!!!!  So they are the same jerks doing the same thing
>under a 
>different name.  There even using the same stocks by which to screw
>people.  Wonderful.   
>I'm wondering if the SEC can't just pemanently remove
>someones broker's liscence.  That would put an end to this crap in a
>hurry.

Alas, Hibbard Brown was around before First Jersey.  They are not
the same company, they simply share the same morals and values.

If you're willing to lie, cheat and steal, and have no compunction
doing so, you may be qualified to work for them.  Or any of a number
of such brokers.

On a positive note, another broker discussed here a few months ago
 -- J.W. Gant --  is no longer in business.   But I fear the same
folks will reform as someone else.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: stock market server on Internet?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 19:20:17 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng) writes:

> In article <aboba-060992141139@192.187.134.3>, aboba@world.std.com (Bernard A
> >Dow Jones News Retrieval is now accessible on Internet. It's not free,
> 
> Is it really a host on the Internet or is it on some commercial net
> but accessible by hosts from Internet?  Isn't true Internet is for
> non-commercial use only?  If so, would that violate the internet policy?
> [I am not policing or complaining, just wondering?]

First, you must define "Internet". There are "acceptable use policies"
for the NFSNet backbone, but that is not the Internet. There are purely
commercial Internet service providers, like PSI and Uunet, across which
commercial traffic is both acceptable and encouraged.

I'd presume that DJNR is properly connected.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Effects of U.S. national debt
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:23:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.143547.1660@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>
>	As for the debt (which is closer to $16k/person, I believe), it does

I think a more realistic way of 'personalizing' the debt is to
consider it per worker.  Most workers pay taxes, and retirees as a group
are not wealthy enough to bear a large fraction of the load.  The debt
is then in the neighborhood of $34k/worker.  Since annual wages are now
in the low $20s somewhere, this means that you owe about 1.5 yrs wages
on the debt (straight rate).  (Changes daily, now, it seems.)


(And another .6 yrs wages to keep the place running while that 1 1/2yrs
is paid off, and integrate away....)

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: sartin@88opensi.88open.ORG (Rob Sartin)
Subject: Mutual Fund Forecaster
Reply-To: sartin@88opensi.UUCP (Rob Sartin)
Organization: 88open Consortium Ltd., San Jose
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 17:29:18 GMT
Summary: MFF = Mutual Fund Forecaster, projects market, multiplies by beta, adds alpha
Keywords: MFF, beta, alpha, performance predictions

In article <BuL6MI.K73@doppler.ncsc.org> kmoore@ncsc.org (Kevin Moore) writes:
>Excuse my ignorance, but what is the MFF? Also, how does one go about
>projecting
>the performance of a mutual fund? This seems very difficult with the level
>of diversification and human management.

MFF is the Mutual Fund Forecaster, a monthly newsletter that gives mutual
fund recommendations based on profit projections.  Also includes advice on
market timing (for "investors" and "traders") and a "seasonality" trading
system based on the observation that the market is historically up around
the end of the month and around holidays.

MFF makes predictions based mostly on their (proprietary) measures of mutual
fund "beta" (multiplier of performance relative to market, e.g. investment 
with beta of 1.5 would go up 15% when the market goes up 10%) and "alpha" 
(performance benefit over market, e.g. alpha 2% and beta 1.0 would go up
12% when the market goes up 10%) and their econometric projections of
the market for the year.  Sources for error: projecting the market!,
beta being an inadequate measure*, alpha being inadequate+.

! - Who knows what voodoo they use in their model.  They don't even trust it,
since while the model was predicting 16% increase, they were warning of
major corrections and recommending a heavy cash position.

* - Beta is usually considered a measure of risk.  One who takes more
risk that "the market" will out (or under) perform the market in proportion
to the risk.  Beta, as a measure for stock performance, was recently slammed
in a study from the University of Chicago.  It's not clear whether this would
extend to beta as used by MFF.

+ - Alpha is sort of a measure of how good the fund management is.  How much
better do they do than the competition with similar risk.  Unfortunately,
a number of factors can decrease the usefulness of such a measure.  Luck
can affect it.  Management eating some of the fees can affect it, until they
stop.  Size of the fund can affect it.  Having either so little money that
you can't diversify or so much money that you can't move quickly, can hurt
performance.

Rob
From: ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: u.s. savings bonds
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:57:55 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <Aeg_wqa00WB95ACb59@andrew.cmu.edu> pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter B. Behrens) writes:
>Where can I buy u.s. savings bonds?
>
>Peter Behrens

Any federally-chartered bank.  Maximum investment $15K per year per person.

Right now, if held for 6 months, you get over 4% per annum, which puts CD's and 
money market funds to shame.  If held 5 years, you get almost 6% per annum, with
the possibility of even higher returns if the ".85 X rate of 5-year t-bond"
rate is higher than that. 

It's a no-brainer for those who dont want to speculate with their
money.  You are protected if rates drop, or if they rise.
Nothing like 'em anywhere.


--Al Date
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Question about more generous IRAs.
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:58:29 GMT

In article <lav8ahINN3vt@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>This leads to Hough's law, with corollaries:
>
>  o  Never take a loss in the current year for a future tax benefit.
>     Future tax benefits usually disappear.
>
>  o  Tax law is not a contract, it is the whim of Congress.  Do not
>     risk money long-term (e.g. in an IRA) without current benefit
>     (deductibility this year).

Fortunately, 401(k)s pass this test, at least for now.  Since 401(k)
contributions and earnings are fully deductible, as is any employer
match, you are in fact accruing benefits immediately.  While it is
likely that the Congress will continue tinkering with the laws, it is
unlikely that they will find a way to make you regret you put the money
in there in the first place.  If you have a 401(k) with any kind of
reasonable investment options (i.e., that beat inflation), especially
if you have an employer match, go for it.
--
-- Christophe

"Black is the color of non-conformity.  Everyone has to have it."
	T-shirt company executive
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Did Little Caesars buy Domino's?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:56:47 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Distribution: na
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)


No, just the Detroit Tigers baseball team.  It was bought by Mike
Ilitch, owner of the Detroit Red Wings (NHL) and the Don of Little
Caesar's.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: james@brock.b17b.ingr.com (James Brock)
Subject: Fidelity Fund Options
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:23:26 GMT

Does anyone have any advice about the following:

My 401-k plan consists of the following:

Weekly deposits into the following funds:

Magellan %30
Growth Co. %30 (recently transferred entire balance to Balanced Fund, as
well as weekly allocations)
Overseas Fund %40

My goal is longterm investment with high profit.

My plan allows investments in only the four above funds plus 
the GIC fund.

QUESTION: Should I worry about the weakness of Growth Co. and Overseas?
Should I just ignore the problems and go for the long haul?

I have been participating in the plan for a little over one year.
From: merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: WSJ Valueline article
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:39:37 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department



There is a pretty negative article on VALUE LINE in
today's Heard on the Street column. Any netters care
to comment on how they been doing this year following
VL's picks? If you subscribe rather than going to
your local public library you are already $525 in the
hole.

I thought it was interseting that the Group 5 outperformed
their Group 1 picks. While they remain among top performing
newsletters(rated by Hulbert) over a 12year period this 
years performance puts them off the 8,5,and 3 year list.

Since a negative article(in HOTS) usually effects stock perfomance 
-- 
Sean J. Merritt		         |      Nietzsche che dice?
Dept of Physics Boston University| 	       Boh!	
merritt@budoe.bu.edu		 | 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Great American Recreation Corp (GRARE)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:06:32 GMT

In article <SHAH.92Sep9101745@santur.tay1.dec.com> shah@tay1.dec.com (Amitabh Shah) writes:
>> Has anyone heard of either GRARE or Hibbard, Brown & Company?
>
>I haven't heard of GRARE, but if what I have heard about Hibbard Brown is
>true, then they are in the same class as Used Car Salespeople, televangelists,
>and Republicans :-). 

Why you you gratuitously insult these fine salespeople, evangelists
and republicans by putting them in the same league as Hibbard
Brown? 

>I would advise your friend to stay away from them.

 ditto
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter B. Behrens)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Janus twenty fund
Date: 8 Sep 92 06:27:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Eef=VPK00WB9MgPfkH
Organization: Masters student, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.misc.invest: 2-Sep-92 Janus twenty fund by
murphy@rock.enet.dec.com 
> Does anyone have a report for the Janus 20 fund,
> which I hope would include a holdings list for
> the fund.  I am interested in finding out what securities the
> fund is holding.,  If you could post or forward this
> list (should be around 20 - gee!), I would apppreciate
> it. 

In their annual report (May 31, 1992) the fund was holding shares of 28
companies plus U.S Treasury Bonds, Bills and Notes, and short term
corporate notes.  For a copy of their latest quarterly report call
1-800-525-3713.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Any problems with U.S. Savings Bonds?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:24:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.134816.10092@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> slansky_d@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>>
>>>Does anyone know any reasons to avoid U.S. Savings Bonds
>>>over the next five year period?
>>
>>Savings Bonds are usually regarded as being very safe
>>(at least as long as the government holds together) but
>>unexciting in terms of return.  Personally I tend to put
>>most of my mad money into stock-based mutual funds, which
>>carry higher risk but also far outperform instruments
>>like savings bonds.  Perhaps someone else can comment as
>>to whether there are other government bonds or other
>>instruments with the same risk level of savings bonds
>>(i.e. very low) but with better returns ...

Well, sure.

Since EE Bonds pay 85% or 5-year treasuries you could get 5-year
treasuries which pay 100% of 5-yr treasuries.

Of course, right now 85% of 5-yr treasuries is less than 6%, and EE
bonds are still guaranteed to pay 6%.  (5-yr treasuries are just a
tad above 6% and dropping.)

>Check out the last issue of Money (Sept?) magazine.  Series EE savings bonds
>guarantee a 6% return if they are held for 5 yrs. or more.  The rate goes to
>85% of t-bills after 5 yrs if it is higher than 6%.  They must be held 6 mo's
>(at 4.19%) minimum.  This is better than most CD's of MM Funds are returning
>right now.  Max investment = 15K/yr. and all interest earned is tax free from
>state and local perspective.

Another tax item is that EE bonds under certain circumstances can be
used to pay tuition for you or your kids, and the interest is not
taxable then.  (There are restrictive income limits, and if your
income is too high, forget it.)

And interest on EE bonds is tax deferable for as long as you hold
the bond and interest continues to accumulate.  This is also an
advantage.  If you wish to declare the interest as income each year
you may do that too, but it is more difficult to do.  This would be
useful, e.g., if your minor child owns the bond and has little income
each year. In this case, you could elect to declare the first year's
interest by filing a return for the child the first year, even if no
tax is due.  Then, if no tax is due is later years you do not even
have to file a return - the IRS accepts your intent to declare the
interest each year for that bond.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: chang-mark-yan-ming@CS.YALE.EDU (Mark Yan-Ming Chang)
Subject: Re: 401k Rollover Legality Question
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:06:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.191302.23593@cs.brown.edu> jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs) writes:
>In article <BtyqpJ.FC3@apollo.hp.com> saz@apollo.HP.COM writes:
>
>>If you have an IRA that was funded with after tax dollars, you don't
>>want to mix your 401K pre-tax dollars with it.  Otherwise, I believe
>>uncle SAM taxes you again on the after-tax dollars when you finally
>>cash out at age 59.5 or so.

As I understand it, if you make $xx nondeductible contribution to your IRA, you
can take the $xx out after age 59.5 TAX FREE. But interest is still taxable
when you take it out.

Is it really true that I have to pay tax again on the $xx if I mix 401K into my
IRA? Hard to believe.

Mark
-- 
--- Mark (changym@cs.Yale.edu, decvax!yale!changym, changym@YaleCS.BITNET)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: eric@desktalk.com (Eric Lieber)
Subject: Great American Recreation Corp (GRARE)
Reply-To: eric@desktalk.com
Organization: Desktalk Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:32:31 GMT

This is posting for Calvin Kennedy at:
	ckennedy@oracle.com

Calvin has been contacted by a firm called Hibbard, Brown & Company,
who are recommending  a company, Great American Recreation Corp. 
GRARE runs a ski resort 90 minutes from New York City, the largest market in the US,  plenty of assets, has a break-up value of $12, etc.. etc...

The brokerage firms has sent Calvin  new account forms and they want a check (!!?) of course.
I am skeptical of hard sell tactics.

Has anyone heard of either GRARE or Hibbard, Brown & Company?

Any response will be helpful.

Eric Lieber
DeskTalk Systems	std disclaimer
eric@desktalk.com
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Expansion of Stock Exchange abbreviations
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:32:08 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.invest

pop@dread.mitre.org (Paul O. Perry) writes:
|
|Is there an available list of abbreviations and corresponding company
|names on the net somewhere ?

Look in a Wall Street Journal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: yenting@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Yen-Ting Shu)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: What's happening to Scudder Shortt Term Global Income Fund
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:40:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin


The price for the Scudder Short Term Global Income Fund was in
the range of 12.10 in early August, but has been dropping since then.
Today's price is 11.84. Anyone knows what is causing the price drop?
The 9% yield is surely very attractive. Is there greater risk for
this fund because of the high yield?


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: newsalt@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (News Acct. 2)
Subject: Re: The US dollar and the Maastrich (sp?) treaty
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:43:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.193327.1994@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> cs6@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Eric Sit 3611) writes:

>currency, especially those that are used to be weak.  Investors have been 
>investing in the weaker currencies like lira in anticipation of the passage
>of the Maastrich treaty.

This has not been happening at all.  There has been *no* weakening of the
Dem against the other EMS currencies this year.  In fact, most investors
have moved *out* of the weak currencies.  Lira and Fr. Francs are the
most notable.  Lira has been on the floor (and in fact was below for a
day) of the EMS narrow band for over two weeks now.  This move has
been happening all year.

>
>However, a no vote would mean that the Maastrich treaty is in danger of 
>collapsing.  
Probably true.

>The strengthening of DM in the last two weeks is the result 
>of investors preparing for the possibility of a no vote.  

Yes and no.  Its more the culmination of a years worth of advance.  Its
just that in the past couple of weeks we have hit levels which are at
or near EMS intervention requirements.

>Since investors are discounting a no vote, I would guess that a no vote 
>would further strengthen the DM, but at a slower rate.  

Yes it would be stronger, and perhaps at an equally fast rate.  Europe
is *not* a stable place at the moment as far as exchange rates go!

>If the French vote yes, investors
>would be more optimistic about the ultimate passage of the treaty, and DM
>may lose some of the strength.

Yes, but again a lot of the move is just a fundamental one base upon
interest rate differentials.


Mike


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mike Miskulin		mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us	70053,551@compuserve.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Doctoral student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 14:19:53 -0400 
From: Joel Bloch <jb6k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Schwab One account
Distribution: usa

You can write a check for any amount with Schwab
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dan@writer.yorku.ca (Dan O'Connell)
Subject: technical analysis
Originator: dan@grant
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:29:17 GMT

Does anyone know if there are any *technical analysis*
groups, bulletin boards etc. lurking in the Net?
Thanks,
D.O'C