HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag)
Subject: Re: The "ploy" w-shu kamen ?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:32:49 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Oct6161306@neumann.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad) writes:
>
>
>Hello Samir,
>
>  I guess we have a misunderstanding here...
>
>  I do not wish to deprive you or any one else from your
>perception/useage of Lebanese. As I said earlier the distinction
>between a "dialect" and a "language" is always political and never
>linguistic.
>
.
.
. 
>
>looking forward to read you.
>

Hi Naji,

There might have some slight misunderstandings along the road, but the over
all idea was clear.  These kind of misapprehensions do occur in the midst
of heated discussions, but they certainly did not alter the overall perception
of the problem. And by the way, elie's last posting (not that it was the 
only clear statement)  leaves no doubt that the AlphaLeb issue has a deeper
political motivation than originally portrayed. 

In my last article, I have tried to dicuss it from your perspective when 
you brought up the issue of human rights abuse and freedoms supression as
practiced by the Arabs of Lebanon ( as you preferred to refer to some
of the lebanese, as opposed to just plain lebanese or simply the Lebanese
arabs).  The point was, one can as easily point out that the much discussed
move does not rise above that.

It is thought that each one of us has made his points and I think we know where
each one of us stands on that issue.  And it is time we laid this
much internecine duel aside.

Honestly, it is starting to send shivers up my spine every time I see an
article on the subject ( Yup, even when I view mine).

If you still think that some grave misunderstandings can still be resolved
and require closer examination, I will be in Waterloo within the next two
weeks, I can stop by and join you for a cup of coffee .
Or if you are going to be in Montreal over this coming long weekend
(thanksgiving holiday) we can arrange something there.  Better yet,
if you are going to Montreal you are welcome to join me on the way
there and back.  I am sure that 4 hours each way are more than sufficient
to grapple over our differences.  And NO, I will not leave you in the
washroom in some gas station somewhere on the 401, tempting as it may get. :)).

Because I do honestly think, that it is time to set this whole issue
aside and off the net.

Samir.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Gee, where did all these Baathists come from?
Organization: UiO
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 11:44:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.042328.10332@leland.Stanford.EDU>
waid@leland.Stanford.EDU (Walid F Nasrallah) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.233616.8059@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached) asks:
>>
>>Did any Lebaneese government ask the syrians to leave?
>>


Yes Rached, the Lebanese government under the presidency of Amine Gemayel,
September 1983, officially asked Syria to withdraw its forces from Lebanon. The
same request was Directed to Syria in the Casablanca Arab summit May 1989. On
both request Syria refused to leave.

This is not taking into account the wish of the far majority of the LEbanon who
whether their politicians listen to them or not, want the Syrians out. This
should be enough to for an official request of the Syrians to leave Lebanon.


elie wardini
From: krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Hassles at Beirut Airport
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:19:28 GMT
Reply-To: tabbara@3d.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Oct14.201834.24749@colorado.edu>, saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E) writes:
|>
|>In reading Khaled's reply to Elie Wardini
|>with regard to the Airport Hassle, I could not but note the
|>difference in style and tone when those two compatriots
|>refer to each other.
|>
|>A few minutes ago, Elie was extending his hand and arguing
|>very constructively. As to Khaled's position, .... Oh well each
|>one of us can decide as to how to qualify it!
|>
|>Indeed there is a world of difference among us.
|>
|>
|>-- 
|>
|>
|>Victor E. Saouma
|>
--

which Khaled are you refering to ? If you meant Khaled Soufi then I agree.
I thought his latest reply to Elie Wardini was rude and offensive !!! 
(calling him pregnant...and all that crap).

I am sorry I started all this by asking a simple question about fishing
and diving. 


Khaled T.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: HELP MUSLIMS; PAY NOTHING.
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:45:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.151647.5058@ulrik.uio.no> e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>In article <1992Oct08.032236.2429808@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John
>Elghani/10000000) writes:
>
>
>>
>>MEF calculated that if the average muslim in the US converts to MCI,
>>then the muslim schools will be receiving $6,000,000 per month.
>>Yes, six million a month ==> 72 milllion a year.   I think the 
>>our children deserve the 72 million/year instead of AT&T.
>
>
>
>not that it is of my buisiness, but would it net better if every Muslim (or
>others who wish to contribute) gave 5$ to MEF rather than work through a
>company whose only desire is to make money (even if takes supporting MEF)?
>
>elie wardini

A donation plus using MCI would probably work best!  MCI (and others I am sure)
make "deals" like this to try to attract and keep customers.  I know they
have an arrangement with American Airlines.  For every $1 you spend with MCI
you earn 5 frequent flier miles.  Personally I like the idea of businesses 
supporting worthy organizations as part of their "advertising" tactic.  It is
certainly a better use of funds than 60 TV spots. 

-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara)
Subject: fishing and diving in Lebanon ?
Reply-To: tabbara@3d.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 21:54:59 GMT




Do the fishermen still use dynamite (TNT sticks) to kill fish
in Lebanon ? How's the sea life over there...are the fish making
a come back ?

Has anyone gone SCUBA diving there ? Did you go with your gear thru
the airport without any hassles ...etc ? What dive spots did you go to ?


Thanks,


Khaled
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Poll Results
Keywords: low turnout.
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:29:07 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

I guess my poll was not popular thus no judgement can be
accurately done on the upcoming US elections based on it.
However, as a courtesy to those that did mail in their
opinions I will post the limited results as promised.

Here are the questions and the results:

1. Who would you vote for today ?
a. George Bush
b. Bill Clinton
c. Ross Perot
d. Other, please specify
e. undecided

George Bush        :     2 votes
Bill Clinton       :     6 votes

2. If you know who you would vote for, please indicate what is
the issue that was most important to you in reaching a decision
a. The candidate's stance on Lebanese affairs.
b. The candidate's foreign policy toward the Middle East in general.
c. The candidate's domestic (US) economic and social policies.
d. A combination of the above factors.
e. Other issues, please specify

The reasons for the two that voted for George Bush were both b.

For those voting for Bill Clinton the reasons they supported
him were:
b.  1 
d.  5

Again thanks for those who participated,

Basil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: fahs@ecf.toronto.edu (FAHS Samir M)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:20:51 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Oct16133059@neumann.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad) writes:

>
>About the Syrian "presence" in Lebanon. A little fact that some of you
>may have forgotten:
>
> President Gemayel had back in 1989 sent a formal letter thanking
>president Assad for his "help and cooperation" and asking for a
>complete withdrawal of the Syrian forces in Lebanon.
>

I do beleive the term for the above would be anachronism.  Gemayel's
presidency term ended on Sep 21, 1988.  Unless he made that request
while he was on the run.

Another thing, the last request to intervene in Lebanon was not 
made by militia leaders ( thou they did want it badly) it was 
made by the late Rachid Karami, when he was a prime minister.

After all, you are talking about facts!!!
-- 
============================================================================
Samir M. Fahs       | " One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed
4925 Dufferin       |   to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean 
Downsview, Ont      |   actions to fear."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: waid@leland.Stanford.EDU (Walid F Nasrallah)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 04:40:54 GMT

Oh, and I forgot the REAL gem by rached :

>This to me looks like a sovereign country. Now just because our leaders
>are influenced by outside forces does not make us under the occupation
>of those outside forces. 

Even if this influence is due more to memories of dearly departed
predecessors who did not share the inclination to be so influenced,
(Does the name "Salim El-Laouzi" ring any bells?), rather than to
the normal rational political process of picking the lesser evil?
Even if, as President Hrawi publicly admits on TV, this "influence"
is such that every cabinet minister who has a disagreement with 
the President or Prime minister rushes to confer with this "outside
force" before the other party even finds out the disagreement exists?
Even if the "outside forces" rather than the local army is entrusted
with "guarding" the presidential residence?

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	O-OO		|
	\/\/alid	a.k.a. waid the waylaid waif [Non Gender Specific]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@accent.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 00:42:03 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@accent.engin.umich.edu


In article <4098@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> In article <Bw82sD.KB0@ecf.toronto.edu> fahs@ecf.toronto.edu (FAHS Samir M) writes:
> >
> >Though it is not the issue here, but I think it is worth bringing to the 
> >attention that what is refered to as a once-prosperous nation is
> >not exactly true!!!...that prosperity belonged in Beirut and a few surrounding
> >areas. The rest of the country was nowhere near that!!.       
> 
> I know that isn't the issue here.  I think you are focusing on the minor
> point of my last posting, and that is, that Syria played a major role in
> destroying what was once a beautiful nation. 
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[..]
> Anisa
> 

Anisa,
	Are you speaking of hands on experience or from post cards' memories?
I doubt that you even lived in Lebanon, although I might be wrong.  Please...
we understand your point.  But stop saying that Lebanon was the Garden of
Eden.  It was not.  Ask us, Lebanese who were and still at the other end.
Unless you are defining beauty in scenic terms...then Michigan is more Green,
and California have better beaches etc....
-Hani
-- 
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu| _____ | 1354 G.G.Brown           |
| hani@engin.umich.edu       |       | Ann Arbor, MI 48109      |
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad)
Subject: Last post about Alphaleb
Organization: University of Waterloo
	<NMOUAWAD.92Oct6162116@neumann.waterloo.edu>
	<7OCT199200153872@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu> <1992Oct7.111305.2887@ulrik.uio.no>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:07:18 GMT



This is my last post concerning Alphaleb. I will be using it and
promoting it whenever possible. It is a tool and let the Lebanese
students and people decide what to do with it.

naji.
--
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Naji Mouawad  |          nmouawad@watmath.waterloo.edu            |
    |  University   |---------------------------------------------------|
    | Of Waterloo   |   "The Stranger in us is our most familiar Self"  |
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
From: UPI
Subject: Hezbollah links Israeli prisoners' fate to Israeli occupation
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:36:28 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon.

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]

	SIDON, Lebanon (UPI) -- The pro-Iranian Hezbollah said Tuesday that
the issue of six Israeli servicemen missing in Lebanon since 1982 was
linked to Israel's occupation of Arab territories.
	``The case of Israeli prisoners is related to the issue of...the
Israeli occupation,'' Hezbollah official Mohammed Fneish told reporters
in the port city of Sidon, 24 miles south of Beirut.
	Hezbollah, the main group leading the Lebanese resistance movement,
has pledged to combat Israel until it withdraws its troops from southern
Lebanon.Israel controls a strip of land that stretches nine miles inside
Lebanon.
	Fneish said there was no way to compare between the missing Israeli
soldiers and Sheikh Abdel Karim Obeid, a prominent Hezbollah leader who
was snatched by Israeli commandes in the southern village of Jibsheet in
July 1989.
	Groups that have released Western hostages in Lebanon have demanded
that Israel set free all prisoners as well as Sheikh Obeid in exchange
for their captives and the Israeli soldiers.
	``Obeid's kidnapping is a terrorist act that violates all
international norms and human rights,'' Fneish said.
	He called on all humanitarian organizations to exert pressure on
Israel to free Obeid and some 250 Lebanese prisoners held at the Khiyam
camp inside Israel's self-declared ``security zone.''
	Fneish rejected any attempt to disarm his fundamentalist groups,
saying that Hezbollah weapons were used to combat the Israeli
occupation.
	``It is our right and duty to continue resisting the occupying forces
and no one has the right to ask us stop the resistance as long as our
land is occupied,'' he said.
	Hezbollah is the only militia to have refused to relinquish weapons
in line with a Government plan to disarm all private militias.
From: ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: My Countrymen - By Gibran Khalil Gibran - Part 2
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:27:46 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@                     My countrymen (Part 2)            @
@       ...                                             @
@       Your souls are suffering the pangs              @
@       Of hunger, and yet the fruit of                 @
@       Knowledge is more plentiful than                @
@       The stones of the valleys.                      @
@       Your hearts are withering from                  @
@       Thirst, and yet the springs of                  @
@       Life are streaming about your                   @
@       Homes - why do you not drink?                   @
@       The sea has its ebb and flow,                   @
@       The moon has its fullness and                   @
@       Crescents, and the Ages have                    @
@       Their winter and summer, and all                @
@       Things vary like the shadow of                  @
@       An unborn God moving between                    @
@       Earth and sun, but Truth cannot                 @
@       be changed, nor will it pass away;              @
@       Why, then, do you endeavour to                  @
@       Disfigure its countenance?                      @
@                            ``The Prophet Of Lebanon'' @
@       [ to be continued ]                             @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: fishing and diving in Lebanon ?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 05:45:19 GMT

krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara) writes:

>Do the fishermen still use dynamite (TNT sticks) to kill fish
>in Lebanon ? How's the sea life over there...are the fish making
>a come back ?

>Has anyone gone SCUBA diving there ? Did you go with your gear thru
>the airport without any hassles ...etc ? What dive spots did you go to ?

You just reminded me of the jitters I would get when these sick people
would throw 'hal'oon' near where I would be diving.  I actually asked
my brother this question a week ago (he goes fishing almost everyday)
and he told me that he hasn't seen people use dynamite in years now.
Apparently, the authorities got tough on those jokers.

Our favorite spots were 'Ras ssakher' in 'El-Mina', 'Bahsas', and few
spots between 'Anfeh' and 'El-hiri'.  My mother, excited that she gets
to eat the most expensive and the tastiest fish free, said to me that
Bassem brings an average of 1 to 3 kilos of a variety of fish, mostly
'lu'os ramli' and 'sakhri'.  We used to spend an average of six hours
snorkeling looking for the tasty 'lu'os'.  I remember I would get out
of the water with white wrinkled fingers and 4 to 5 'lu'os' (when I am
lucky) dangling at my waist.  Bassem always brings more!

By the way, we seldom used anglers' rods to fish since we could only
pick up 'bouri' and 'abu shawkeh' (also known as 'batriz') and they
don't even match to the tasty 'lu'os'.  Besides, it is much more fun
and exercise snorkeling.

I haven't heard of anybody being hassled at the airport in the past
few years.  However, I don't know anything about bringing in scuba
diving equipments.  I am interested to find out too though, anybody?

>Thanks,

>Khaled

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: hra2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Hibatur Rahman Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Inquiry
Date: 7 Oct 92 11:23:36 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I need some help.  Can someone send me the full result of the previous public
elections that were in held in Lubnan?  Thank you.

HRA
From: awair@igc.apc.org (Arab World and Islamic Resources)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Marcel Khalife Concert - Toronto
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:36:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1473900021:000:476
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!awair    Oct  8 22:36:00 1992


From: Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair>
Subject: Marcel Khalife Concert - Toronto

I am forwarding the following message from
From: CED14304@RYEVM.RYERSON.CA

    There will be a MARCEL KHALIFE concert in Toronto
    Sat. 31st October at Convacation Hall
    University of Toronto - located at Kings Circle.
    Tickets are $35 and $50.
If you would like to enquire about tickets, send e-mail to
CED1430@RYEVM.RYERSON.CA (Omar Sahib)


Jennifer Smith
awair@igc.apc.org
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: fishing and diving in Lebanon ?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:36:39 GMT

elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:

>In article <1992Oct13.054519.20327@m.cs.uiuc.edu> soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes:
>>krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara) writes:
>>
>>I haven't heard of anybody being hassled at the airport in the past
>>few years.

>Really ? You must live on the moon.

Well, now that I have landed on Earth, why don't you fill me in!

Many members of my family have gone in and out of the Beirut airport
more than 10 times in the past 4 years.  None of them reported
hassles.  Now, if you or somebody you know were hassled at the airport
Elie, then let us know because your matters do not fall under the
realm of my knowledge.  I think you know that I don't know you and
that I care less anyway!  Unless, of course, you think I listen to the
made up crap reported by CLAO and similar agencies...

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Arabic alphabet, any interest?
Organization: UiO
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:50:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.150212.10652@PA.dec.com> krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled
Tabbara) writes:
>
>
>Sure..I'd be interested in looking at them. If you also have pictures
>of the Phoenician collection that the National Museum has (or had ?) then
>I'd really appreciate having scanned images of those. E.g. the urns, jugs,
>little statues...etc. Thanks in advance !

I'll find some interesting pictures, the scanner I use is only limited as to
shades of gray, but will also include some inscriptions.


>Yes. But the Lebanese are NOT that diverse ! They have a lot more in
>common than some of the more homogeneous countries (if there are any?)

It is my firm belief that what you are saying is true. also that many of us are
(or become) extreme on the net. in fact there are many shades of gray in
between our points of view. 


so, we want to live together, we have very much in common, let not our
differences become a source of conflict. This is acieved in my opinion, by
tolerance and openness to the ideas and attidutes of others.

Thanks KHaled for your nice words

>
>Khaled T.


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:23:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.100635.26536@ulrik.uio.no> e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
> 
>
>again shame on all those who speak with two tongues!
>
>elie wardini

Elie, if we consider that the israeli invasion and occupation of parts
of lebanon is an occupation and the syrian "presence" in lebanon is not,
that does not mean that we are speaking with two tongues.

You see Syrians were invited by the Maronites to protect them against
the "nationalistic" forces when the latter was winning the civil war. It
is the president and the prime minister that asked for the syrians to
intervene. Then recently, many governments asked the Syrians for their
help.

Correct me if I am wrong but no government ever asked the israelis to
intervene right ?

If you want to consider the Syrians as occupying forces, that's your
opinion and you're entitled to it but please don't make it obligatory on
us.

I have said that earlier and I repeat it. I beleive that the Syrians
will get out of Lebanon once we are able to proove that we deserve our
country. In my opinion they are not gaining much by occupying Lebanon
other than preventing the country from disintegrating once more into war
and threatening them. Again they were invited that is not the case for
Israel.

On another note Elie, do you also consider the marines, the british and
other multinational forces that were invited in the wake of the Israeli
invasion as occupying forces ? then I must think that you agree fully
with the people who blasted the marines compound, right ?


rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon