From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Germany to commemorate launch of first Nazi rocket despite protests
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:39:02 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.german
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota

In article <jj7qbl0c@csv.warwick.ac.uk> laudw@warwick.ac.uk (Chris Lowe) writes:

>In article <1992Sep27.001959.27716@u.washington.edu> payman@hardy.u.washington.edu (Payman Arabshahi) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep26.210715.25351@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>>mtaghavi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Amir Taghavi) writes:
>>
>>>     BERLIN (UPI) -- German aerospace interests said Saturday they were
>>>planning to celebrate the 50th anniversary of first rocket launch in
>>>Nazi Germany despite international criticism.
>>                         ....
>>>     The Nazis launched 1,120 V-2s against Britain between September 1944
>>>and April 1945, killing 2,855 civilians.
>>                         ....
>>>     In Britain, Conservative member of Parliament Winston Churchill,
>>>grandson of the wartime prime minister, told the Mirror newspaper: ``I
>>>urge them to think again.
>>>     ``The very idea that anyone could commemorate a wepaon system which
>>>terrorized and killed civilians I find incredible,'' he said.
>>
>>Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that the British unveiled a statue
>>commemorating Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris; the man responsible for
>>the fire bombing of Dresden and many other German cities during the
>>Second War; bombings which left Tens, if not hundreds of thousands
>>of innocent civilians dead?
>>
>>-Payman

>I find it quite hard to believe that anyone cannot see the clear distinction
>between Bomber Harris and the v2 rocket system.Bomber Harris was in the
>process of launching attacks on the most vile political system in history,
>were pilots risked there lives nightly...the v2 system was a rocket
>propelled weapons system,devised by evil people for evil purposes.Does`nt
>anybody in Germany or America see the distinction ??? and if you take
>this argument to its ultimate conclusion then it should be the Americans
>and the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombs that must be seen as the ultimate,
>most cowardly attack on `civillians`....by all means attack the v2 and
>atomic weapons systems,but don`t denigrate the braveness of the English
>bomber command or its leaders.It seems that many people don`t understand
>the current animosity towards Germany,but I think many people in
>england are of the view that Germany is forgetting what actually happened
>in 1939/45.(fuelled by news reports on the neo-nazi violence,and the V2
>celebrations have`nt helped.).we have every right to celebrate the braveness
>of our RAF,on the other hand I would suggest that the German people would
>be far better off if they stopped trying to revise their own history and
>actually began to remember what a bloody mess they caused.

>Anyway,

>My Ecu`s worth.

>Darren.

The attacks on Japan with nuclear weapons were disgusting.  A demonstration 
in the pacific would have sufficed, it was meant simply to show the Soviet 
Union what the U.S. could do.  And Bomber Harris was disgusting too.  His 
attacks on Dresden and Koeln came too late to make a military difference and 
basically only hurt civilians and made the post-war period worse.  It was a 
cowardly piece of revenge seeking -- sickening.  And as bad as nazism was, 
we fool ourselves we think our histories are much better.  The British 
basically conquered the world and started the type of system which now leads 
to famine and poverty.  A holocaust in and of itself, fueled by racist 
ideologies at the time.  The British Empire and Nazi Germany, both seem 
similar to me, even if the Nazi high-tech holocaust was more dramatic.  Oh, 
and I won't leave my country out.  Besides Japan and the nukes, we committed 
genocide against a number of native north American peoples, and took 
survivors and locked them on reservations where unemployment and alcoholism 
still are over 90%.  Nazism is an expression of an aggressive, greedy 
european culture which still exists and finds expression in many ways.  
Unless people just say, "killing is murder and I will kill no one for no 
state" and stand by their conviction, politicians will find ways to destroy 
and grab more power.  I don't judge soldiers because of that -- I think war 
is murder, but soldiers are victims of their culture which teaches them to 
think that way -- even though the brave ones have the guts to go against 
their leaders and refuse to fight.  But until we change our beliefs about 
the world, this killing will go on and on and on and on...but we've created 
this reality, so I guess we deserve what we get.  Gruss, Scott
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian