HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eggert@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: Re: Article - Behind the Terminal
Organization: Twin Sun, Inc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:15:34 GMT

Rob Kling writes:

kling> Few of the books that I know about systems analysis take infrastructure
kling> into account -- and this is especially true of the texts which are
kling> used in university courses. I cite the better books, which I know of,
kling> in my article.

Kling's article presents an extensive bibliography for web-like models,
but for ``traditional'' models, instead of citations the article
contains only a conveniently weak description that has little to do
with how system analysis is practiced or taught.  If you turn to real
practitioners, or even real textbooks, you'll find a much different
picture.  Here's just one example: Barry Boehm's _Software Engineering
Economics_ (Prentice-Hall, 1981), a book that has been often used in
university courses.  I'll quote from Boehm's introduction:

	As you begin to confront practical software engineering
	situations, you will find that they contain both programming
	problems and nonprogramming problems: operational problems,
	budget problems; schedule problems; problems in determining the
	relative priorities of users' needs.  Bypassing the
	nonprogramming problems to concentrate on the programming
	problems will almost always lead to trouble later on.

Far from ignoring infrastructure issues, Boehm puts several of them on
the front cover of his book.  He doesn't mention the web model -- after
all, his book was written in 1981 -- but he clearly understands that
social context is crucial, and I don't think that the web model would
have helped him a bit.  Although specialized to just software
engineering, Boehm's work is far more ambitious and potentially useful
than Kling's, because it's quantitative, not just qualitative.

eggert> Kling presents no evidence that his models are better than other ad hoc
eggert> frameworks for describing the social context of computing.

kling> The paper provides some evidence through the analysis of one case study.
kling> The main contrast in the paper is between web models and dicrete entity
kling> models.

The only mention of traditional methods in Kling's case study was a
dismissive remark about how a traditional system analyst would
probably have made the mistake of choosing TeX over WordPerfect.
This brief and (in my view) incorrect remark hardly constitutes
an honest comparison of two rival systems.
Newsgroups: comp.groupware,comp.software-eng
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject: Engineering Document Management Systems 92, Dallas
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:47:23 EST

Regarding the September 15/17 Engineering Document Management
Systems 92, Dallas, Texas conference sponsored by the Kalthoff
Group, you can get further details by calling the Kalthoff
Group (800) 242-6822 or (513) 871-6808.  In this regard, there
is an article by Robert Kalthoff, chairman, in the July/August
issue of IMC Journal entitled "The Role of Electronic Imaging
in Concurrent Imaging."  You can probably get copies of this
material from him.  Everyone requesting information on what
Wang will be showing should have received it.  If not, let
me know.  Thanks,  Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
From: crowston@uri.csmil.umich.edu (Kevin Crowston)
Subject: "Penpals" wanted for groupware course
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:02:19 EDT
Organization: Cognitive Science and Machine Intelligence Lab, U. of Michigan

I'm teaching a course on groupware to a group of MBA students. To
illustrate the potential of email, it occurred to me that it might be
useful to have them communicate with people outside the university. If
you (or your students) would be interested in being on this class list
to discuss the use of groupware in business applications, please send
me mail.
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
From: peterbow@cix.compulink.co.uk (Computacenter - Peter Bowyer)
Subject: Notes as front-end to News
Cc: peterbow@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: peterbow@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:29:07 +0000

Hi all,

Has anyone done any work on using Notes as a fron-end to Net News?
I'd like to compare notes (pun? sorry!)

PB

======================================
Peter Bowyer
peterbow@cix.compulink.co.uk
======================================
From: carmike@t (tmn_)
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Subject: Re:  Query: Real-time GDSS Examples/References?
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:50:00 GMT


Lots of activity around our Caucus conferencing system, asci based
with binary libraries, multiple platform (unix, xenix, Vax, IBM,etc).
-------------------
Douglass Carmichael  Metasystems Design Group 703-243-6622 carmike@tmn.com
From: kling@ics.uci.edu (Rob Kling)
Subject: Re: Article - Behind the Terminal
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 14 Aug 92 02:56:34 +0000.
             <bjgP^u#d@twinsun.com>
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:48:49 GMT

Dear Paul,

However, one of several of your comments that I differ with is this:

>Kling presents no evidence that his models are better than other ad hoc
>frameworks for describing the social context of computing.

The paper provides some evidence through the analysis of one case study.
The main contrast in the paper is between web models and dicrete entity
models. I'd be interested in knowing whihc other empirically grounded
frameworks for describing the social context of computing you think are
comparabley good .... and why ...

/R
From: marcus_olk@cl-hh.comlink.de (Marcus Olk)
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Subject: re: Petri Net software
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:13:00 GMT
Followup-To: comp.groupware
Organization: Freies Telekommunikations-Zentrum Hamburg e.V.
X-Z-Path: CL-HH!LINK-HH!SHLINK
X-Gateway: US SHLINK [shgate V1.91]

Hi!

I tried to develope an elevator-control-system using design/CPN
by Meta Software Corp. during a university project.

In case your interested write a short response to the following
adress: olk@informatik.uni-hamburg.de.

You'll get the full adress of MetaSoftware and a short SPR of
design/CPN. (BTW: a tool for edititing an simultating coloured
Petri nets :-)

Cheers,
Marcus

-- 
 Marcus Olk        # Internet: olk@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
 Schwalbenweg 9a   #           marcus_olk@cl-hh.comlink.de
 D-2000 Hamburg 61 # Zerberus: MARCUS_OLK@CL-HH.ZER
Down with categorical imperative!!!

## net_sh v1.5 (sb)

  
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
From: enag@ifi.uio.no (Erik Naggum)
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Subject: Re: Introduction to comp.groupware (Periodic informational Posting)
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:01:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway

David Stodolsky <david@ruc.dk> writes:
|
|   Please read carefully:
|   Any article posted to comp.goupware uses a minimum of ten hours of
|   reader's time.

You can't multiply the time used by one reader by the number of readers,
since nobody is actually spending any more time than they themselves
spend on reading anything.  It's not as if news readers are standing in
line and waiting for the people in front of them to spend their one
second reading the article.  If an article takes one second to decide
not to read, then one second has been wasted, and only one second, no
matter how many people decide not to read it.

Take a newspaper with a circulation of 1 million, and discourage people
from submitting letters to the editor because any letter which appears
in print will take about 1 second to decide not to read, and a whole
month of 8-hour reading days is wasted by each letter.  Great logic.

Considering your line of argument, though, how much time do you think
you're wasting by asking people to follow USENET etiquette in each and
every introductory article?  How many years of wasted time does that add
up to?  No, you say, this doesn't apply?  Of course not, but neither
does your bogus "10 hours" argument.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum             |  ISO  8879 SGML     |      +47 295 0313
                        |  ISO 10744 HyTime   |
<erik@naggum.no>        |  ISO 10646 UCS      |      Memento, terrigena.
<enag@ifi.uio.no>       |  ISO  9899 C        |      Memento, vita brevis.
Xref: sparky comp.groupware:719 comp.infosystems:426
From: stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu (Glenn Stauffer)
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Subject: Do you use the ABT college financial system?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:19:19 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Xxdate: Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:19:12 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7

I am researching the college financial products from ABT (Applied
Business Technologies, Newtown Square, PA).

If you are using this product from or have any information about ABT and
would be willing to tell me about your experience and answer a few
questions, please send email to:

stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu

Thank you

Glenn Stauffer
From: tmn_ <Lisa Kimball Carlson <lisa@tmn>
Date:  17 Aug 92 21:26:00
Subject: Re: Penpals wanted for groupware course
Newsgroups: comp.groupware


Kevin - we'd be happy to correspond with students about how we've
worked with organizations using computer conferencing ....

  lisa kimball carlson
  lisa@tmn.com
  tel: 703-243-6622
  fax: 703-841-9798


Newsgroups: comp.groupware,comp.infosystems
From: dmarble@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Duane F Marble)
Subject: Re: Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:42:27 GMT

An excellent book which is not in the bibliography is:

Eason, Ken
   INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND ORGANISATIONAL CHANGE. London: Taylor
      & Francis, 1988. ISBN 0-85066-388-1
-- 
Duane F. Marble			       E-mail: dmarble@magnus.acs.osu.edu
Department of Geography                Telephone: (614) 292-2250
The Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210                   Fax: (614) 292-6213
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
From: rwhitehead@cix.compulink.co.uk (Roger Whitehead)
Subject: Groupware article in VAR Business       
Cc: rwhitehead@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: rwhitehead@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:55:00 +0000

Michael,

I have read this, and your other postings, with a feeling of envy, since I am
based in England.  Is there some way of arranging a link between us?  I'd be
happy to act as the British copying/distribution point for mailings.  If
relevant, they could also appear in my newsletter, Groupware News.

Roger Whitehead
Director,
Office Futures,
14 Amy Road,
Oxted,
Surrey    RH8 0PX
England

Telephone: +883 713074
Fax: +883 716793
Newsgroups: comp.groupware,comp.infosystems
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:33:57 -0400 
From: David Greene <dg1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Clarification re. Behind the Terminal
	<Bt3tpE.Gn7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>


Excerpts from netnews.comp.infosystems: 17-Aug-92 Re: Clarification re.
Behin.. roy schmidt@copper.ucs.i (2063)
> When a framework is built, the usual objective is to give
> researchers and practitioners a tool whereby the separable elements can
> be identified and then systematically isolated for study.

The notion of systematic isolation is not integral to a framework.  A
framework can simply identify relevant characteristics and relationships
and can provide a particular perspective in understanding a problem. 
Interdependence (isolatability) may or may not be part of the framework.

> But a point made repeatedly in Rob's paper is that these elements are
> *not* separable, and cannot be broken down into subsystems, etc., for
> study.  The analyst must learn to cope with real life, where all the
> dynamic factors are constantly interacting and creating new situations.

A "holistic" view is fine conceptually, but implementing a holistic
approach requires some kind of structure (amorphous though it may seem).
I was not implying that it be "tacked on" to the discrete entity model. 
What I was suggesting was that it would be valuable to describe a more
rigorous approach to operationalizing the interpersonal environmental
effects associated with the existing system... and potential
implications for the design of the new system.

For example:
Excerpts: 14-Aug-92 Article -- Behind the Termi.. Rob Kling@ics.uci.edu (38592)
>      We propose three criteria for drawing the boundaries of
> larger scale situations Sc which serve as useful contexts for a
given focal situation Sf (Kling, 1987).

Here he attempts to provide an operationalization for characterizing
boundaries.

Throughout he makes reference to various approaches, theories and models
which can be used to instantiate his notions of interdependencies or
considerations.  I admit that I have not read his other papers which he
cites.  Presumably those provide more detailed descriptions.  My point
was that providing a more rigorous approach which operationalized the
interpersonal environment would be a major contribution.  His empirical
examples seem to indicate that is achievable in his specific study.  But
as Rob himself notes:

Excerpts: 14-Aug-92 Article -- Behind the Termi.. Rob Kling@ics.uci.edu (17947)
> I would
> like to conclude with a neat method so that any analyst could
> readily identify the infrastructural resources which are critical
> for a computer system and workable for her organization. This
> method would provide a satisfying conclusion to a long chapter.
> Unfortunately, I do not have a such a method. Nor is the search
> for a simple method a good way to learn from this chapter. The
> case of the DCRP and the subsequent discussion illustrates many
> key ideas about the way that computing infrastructures are
> tailored for specific systems and social settings.
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
Subject: Groupware article in VAR Business
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:25:43 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

The July issue of Var Business has a five page article entitled
Groupware: Tilt! or Bonus?

If anyone would like me to (US) mail them a copy, please send me
your mailing address.

-------------------Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com--------------------
Newsgroups: comp.groupware
From: M18709@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Query: Real-time GDSS Examples/References?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:10:17 GMT

I am a new reader to this group, so I apologize if this is an
inappropriate or frequently asked question.
 
I am interested in finding more information about the application of
real-time Group Decision Support Systems (GDSS).  Specifically I am
looking for a GDSS-type system used in a distributed environment.  I
would appreciate any information on research or actual
implementations of such systems.  Systems used for real-time
operations (e.g. network control) or crisis management are of
primary interest.  Applications of voice/data conferencing systems
may also prove useful.
 
My application:  I am looking into automation techniques for a future
management system.  The system will help coordinate real-time
traffic flows in the National Airspace System (NAS).  Decision-makers
are geographically dispersed with individual jurisdictions in a loosely
hierarchical fashion.  They will need to share data and predictions, as
well as coordinate proposed solution strategies.  The NAS essentially
"resets" daily.  Operators must respond to predicted (e.g.,
thunderstorms) and unforeseen (e.g., equipment failures) disruptions
to traffic flow while minimizing delays and preventing overloads of
resources.
 
Any help that could be provided would be greatly appreciated.  If you
can point me to other appropriate netnews groups that would also help.
Thank you in advance.
=======================================================================
Andrew R. Lacher      | Center for Advanced Aviation System Development
m18709@mwvm.mitre.org | The MITRE Corporation
(703) 883-7182        | McLean Virginia 22102
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: gideony@microsoft.com (Gideon Yuval)
Subject: Re: IBM OS/2 news at PC92
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:50:22 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug18.005710.19660@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> parry@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Tom J Parry) writes:
>:-). Anyway, walking past the MS stand, one of the demonstrators opened
>a cupboard to get something out of the back of the stand, and what shuld
>I see, but a PC running OS/2! I was very amused. I made a comment about
>MS running OS/2 and she mumbled something under her breath abou it not
>being a problem. I thought it was very funny.

Given that LANMAN uses OS/2 as its server OS, what was
so funny?
-- 
Gideon Yuval, gideony@microsoft.com, 206-882-8080 (fax:-883-8101;TWX:160520)
From: widow@camelot.bradley.edu (Shaun Burnett)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: UMB=on for Dos crashes System
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:03:44 GMT
Organization: Bradley University


>I am using a dos-window and am using ftp's pctcp-networksoftware for dos in
>this dos-box. This works perfectly fine, if I do not set UMB=HIGH. If I do so,
>the dos-box hangs definitely and I was also able to crash whole os2.
>Any hints? I'd like to use more memory (and please do not tell me to buy
>pctcp for os2, I do not want to invest too much until I know definitely.....)

	Most DOS network software needs to use some UMB.  You may
	need to specify the UMB area needed by the network software
	using MEM_EXCLUDE_REGIONS.


Shaun Burnett		    |	"You can't survive on a new planet with a
widow@camelot.bradley.edu   |	soul full of hope and fresh air you know."
OS/2--Happy Happy Joy Joy--OS/2		-  Dr. Who (Tom Baker)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: gong@dutw34.tudelft.nl (GONG Sunrong)
Subject: Unexpected DOS error and others...
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:05:24 GMT

Help Needed!!

	I am having problem to have windows programs running either in
seamless mode or in a full win/os2 window. The error message is "unexpected 
DOS error" or something like that. It seems to me that OS/2 is unable to 
find the files on a FAT disk partition.  A DIR in a DOS window lists all the 
files and directories as they exit in the partition but in a OS/2 window 
DIR fails to list some directories and files. However, I can CD to 
unlisted the directories (in a OS/2 window) but it tells me the directory is 
empty. What's wrong? 

	I don't use OS/2 often and is still in the stage of learning, I was 
hoping I could get rid of DOS but now it seems not possible.

	Thanx in advance for your help!


-gong
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: 1280x1024x16 colors with os/2!!!
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:06:08 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <kevinc.714344845@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> kevinc@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Kevin Crocker) writes:
>Alas, some of us already have expensive high end boards that'll do
>resolutions like 1280 x 1024 x 256/16.7M (includeing 4M VRAM) plus
>on-board 8514/a and on-board SVGA with 1M.  What we don't have yet is
>an OS/2 driver for this sucker.

Well, until the board manufacturer gets its driver out, you can use
the 8514/a driver with it (it had on-board 8514/a, right?) to get
1024x768x256. 
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: skagos@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (panagiotis skagos (187802923))
Subject: Trident 8900c full-screen DOS puke-fest! 
Reply-To: skagos@hercules.uregina.ca (panagiotis skagos (187802923))
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:47:14 GMT

Hi,

  I am having problems with my Trident 8900c and full screen DOS
sessions.  I am using, I believe, the latest 800x600x256 driver for
the card and everything works really well, except for full screen
DOS sessions.  When I switch to a FS-DOS, either by ALT-HOME'ing a
window or by creating one, the DOS session has a bunch of text-mode
gibberish all-over-the-place.  This only happens sometimes ... but
once it happens, it will always happen until I reboot.  Now, since
I don't use DOS all that much (just for my GIF viewer ... because I
cannot find a decent OS/2 GIF viewer) it doesn't bother me greatly, but
if someone has a solution to the problem, I'd really be greatful to
hear about it.  Thanks!

  P. Takis Skagos
  (skagos@hercules.cs.uregina.ca)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Above 16MB. Possible FAQ. Summary needed.
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:39 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug18.004642.18288@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> parry@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Tom J Parry) writes:
>THIS IS GREAT! EXCELLENT! What could be better? Well, a little speed I
>suppose. Things are definitely faster, much less swapping (eg on a big
>find) BUT _CLOSING_ certain windows takes a while. Some windows
>disappear instantly, but my folder windows pause for about a second or
>two before closing. This never happened before GT16MB2

Since ISA boards are physically incapable of using DMA to transfer
data above the 16MB line, OS/2 has to copy data first.  In other
words, if you close the window and OS/2 has to write something to the
disk, and that something is located in high memory (above 16MB), then
the system has to move the data "south" of the 16MB line before
writing it.  This may require other data to be moved "north" or
swapped to disk.

At least, it's a good theory.  It might also simply be a bug.

>Also, what is the best program around for getting stats on memory usage.
>Sort of a MEM for OS/2 or even better, something like MANIFEST (I live &
>dream in hope).

Not likely.  What kind of info do you want?  With a virtual memory
system, all memory is either free, or can be made free.  And you have
all the swap space on your disk that can be allocated as well.  You'd
need many numbers, like:

   Number of free pages in memory
   Number of discardable pages in memory
   Number of pages that can be swapped to disk
   Amount of free swap space on disk
   Size of the largest contiguous block of memory

etc...

-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
From: mg15@prism.gatech.EDU (Glynn,Mike)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: rn hangs on F3=save/return. Why?
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:28:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


I'm trying to run the sample rn included with TCP/IP 1.2.1.
I can connect to the NNTP Server just fine, mark the groups to subscribe.
When I hit F3 to Save/Return it hangs(not os/2, just the calling window).
any ideas?

Mike Glynn

-- 
Mike Glynn                      | Stolen Sig Follows:
                                |
                                | A hot-rodder is someone who is completely
Internet: mg15@prism.gatech.edu |   baffled by people who are NOT into cars!
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: OS/2 Drivers for Diamond
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:44:22 GMT

In article <unruh.713646010@physics.ubc.ca> unruh@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh) writes:
> gt0040a@prism.gatech.EDU (Tom Sorensen) writes:
> 
> >As a consolation- the 32-bit GUI is supposed to ship w/ many SVGA drivers for
> >popular boards. With luck the S3 chipset will be among them.
> 
> I thought that IBM stated that OS2 GA shipped with many video drivers
> for popular boards.
> 

It *did*. That's why almost every VGA, XGA, 8514/a video card in creation
works just fine.
 
Steve

-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  And the stars going round in 
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  my head." R. L. S.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking