Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:45:08 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 285

In this issue:
                           Why, Loren?  Why?
                             odds and ends
                              paglia-chic
                United Way SF Bay Area also dumps Scouts
                       "Alternative Conceptions"
                    thought and question for the day
                              Gay Games IV
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 284
                  Dance and Campout with Cal Poly GLBU
                           Undeliverable Mail
                          Boston and NYC Pride
                        Bible and Homosexuality
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 283
                      Sexuality survey -- careful!

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@ATHENA.MIT.EDU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 92 08:42:25 MST
From: MHERBERT@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu

Add (believe it or not!) the University of Arizona to the list of schools that
include sexual orientation in their non-discrimination clauses.  This was
accomplished last year, largely by the Diversity Action Council and the Faculty
and Staff Group for GLB Equity.  So far - no backlash to speak of. . .

And, while I'm here - is the word getting out about next year's march in DC?


Melissa
University of Arizona (that's Tucson, not Phoenix!)

------------------------------

From: awerling@NMSU.Edu
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 09:49:41 MDT
Subject: Why, Loren?  Why?

Loren:

Why are you so opposed to biblical discussions on the net.  As
I see it, these ex-gay ministries are some of the most dangerous
groups of peopl out there, and we need to understand them.

What better place to understand them then on GayNet?
(Not to mention that many readers here can't access alt.
politics.homosexuality).

Andrew Werling  awerling@nmsu.edu  Speak with peace.
"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in
Germany was 'legal' and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters
did in Hungary was 'illegal.'" --Martin Luther King, Jr., 1963

------------------------------

From: hoffmanf@einstein.susqu.edu
>To: gaynet@athena.mit.edu
>From: hoffmanf
Date: Tue Apr 14 17:57:37 EDT 1992
Subject: odds and ends
Ua-Message-Id: <PMXSTAR-2.2.1a-hoffmanf-000000real-284>

__
\/ To the person asking about radio programming: The University of
Pennsylvania radio station has two programs--GayDreams and Amazon Country (or
something like that). For more information, try the LGBA Office, (215)
898-5270.
__
\/ To the gays in Christ person:  Try THE CHURCH AND THE HOMOSEXUAL by John J.
McNeill.  McNeill does a nice, concise job of historicizing and deconstructing
the apparent biblical injunctions against homosexual activity.  By the way,
here is what Christ Himself said about homosexuals:              .
__
\/ To the film-title seeker: you seem to have most of the top choices. Desert
Hearts, Beautiful Laundrette, and The Times of Harvey Milk are probably my
top recommends. I would also add Another Country (another British boys' school
number that makes interesting statements on the politics of being gay and an
interesting link between "queers" and "commies") For goof-ball fun, try The
Ritz or Entertaining Mr. Sloan.  The Theater of the Living Arts (TLA) video
store in Philadelphia publishes a catalogue of video-titles of lesbigay
interest. You could phone them up for one or, if you give me your snail-mail
address, I'd be willing to send you a copy myself.

                                        Frank Hoffman
                                        hoffmanf@EINSTEIN.SUSQU.EDU

------------------------------

From: hoffmanf@einstein.susqu.edu
>To: gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
>From: hoffmanf
Date: Wed Apr 15 11:36:02 EDT 1992
Subject: paglia-chic
Ua-Message-Id: <PMXSTAR-2.2.1a-hoffmanf-000000real-285>

__
\/  Before anyone from "our crowd" starts rhapsodizing the retrograde
maunderings of Camille Paglia, consider the following selections from the
PAGLIA QUOTE-WATCH that I have going with a colleague here at Susquehanna.
These are taken from a piece by Jon-Henri Damski in The Windy City Times and
are quoted from Paglia's book, Sexual Personae:

        "All the genres of philosophy, science, high art, athletics, and
        politics were invented by men."

        "In Western culture, there are no non-exploitative relationships."

        "Female sex smells of marine life; male sex of shit."

        "Men are in a constant state of sexual anxiety, living on the pins and
        needles of their hormones."

        "...the modern male homosexual has sought ecstasy in the squalor of
        public toilets, for women perhaps the least erotic place on Earth."

        "Fortunately, male homosexuals of every social class have preserved
        the cult of masculine."  [go figure]

        "Sex crimes are always male, never female, because such crimes are
        conceptualizing assaults on the unreachable omnipotence of woman and
        nature."

        "Promiscuity in men may cheapen love but sharpen thought.  Promiscuity
        in women is illness, a leakage of identity."

        "The beautiful boy is homosexuality's greatest contribution to Western
        culture."


And on and on and on....  pretty wild stuff.  I guess
OUTRAGEOUSNESS=PUBLICITY.
__
\/ A stray que[e]ry and a comment: Someone mentioned the video "On Being
Gay" by Brian McNaught. Do you have any information on how to obtain a copy
of this video? Also--to the Marquette person: you didn't say which Marquette
or when you graduated; but I have a friend at Marquette in Milwaukee and yes,
Virginia, there are homosexuals there (poor dears).

                                                --Frank

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 09:38:15 -0700
From: Jessea N. R. Greenman <jnrg@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: United Way SF Bay Area also dumps Scouts

Yep, UW SFBA has officially decided to cease funding the Boy Scouts of
America in its five county area until the BSA stops discriminating against
lsebigays.  The UW SFBA will continue to process any donor-designated
contributions which specifically are earmarked by the donor but this
is likely to be a much smaller dollar amount than the approx. $800,000-
900,000 the BSA here was getting.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 09:41:56 -0700
From: Jessea N. R. Greenman <jnrg@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: "Alternative Conceptions"

Our local Public Broadcasting System affiliate station aired a 35 min.
documentary on lesbians having children.  The show, entitled "Alternative
Conceptions," aired Monday April 13 at 10 pm.  Perhaps others on this net
would like to contact KQED-TV to get information on how to get this
film aired on their local public TV stations.  Try calling David Hosley
at 415-553-2136...he's the station manager.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Medlin <jmedlin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: thought and question for the day

1.  Thought for the day:
	"Things are more like they are now than they ever were before."
					--Dwight David Eisenhower


2.  Question for the day:
	Could Dan Quayle be the secret & unacknowledged son of Mr. Eisenhower?

Please provide documentation with your answers.

------------------------------

From: Rondel K. Buckmire <buckmr@rpi.edu>
Subject: Gay Games IV
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 13:56:06 -0500

Found this article 'round the net. I actualy picked up one of these Gay Games IV
buttons at the Pro-Choice March in Washington a few weeks ago.

"Copyright 1992 by UPI.
Reposted with permission from the ClariNet Electronic Newspaper newsgroup
clari.group.gays.  For more info on ClariNet, write to info@clarinet.com or
phone 1-800-USE-NETS."

  The fourth gay olympics, billed as the world's largest amateur sporting event
and open to all regardless of sexual orientation or AIDS status, will be held
in the Big Apple in 1994, organizers announced Monday.
  More than 15,000 athletes from 40 countries are expected to compete in the
10-day event known as Gay Games IV, which has ``unity'' as its theme.
  ``I cannot think of a more appropriate theme for these games, or a more
important message for our city,'' said Mayor David Dinkins, who greeted gay
athletes and organizers at City Hall.
  ``In the words of Dr. King, 'We must learn to live together as brothers, and
of course, sisters, or we will perish together as fools,''' he said.
  Dinkins, who stood at his friend Arthur Ashe's side last week as the tennis
great announced he had gotten AIDS from a blood transfusion, used the occasion
to urge President Bush to rescind immigration rules that bar those with the
AIDS virus from visiting the U.S. for more than 10 days or from immigrating to
the country.
  ``This rule only adds to the false and dangerous perception that people with
HIV pose a threat to our nation's public health and should therefore be
banned,'' the mayor said.
  The Gay Games were founded by the late Tom Waddell, who competed in the
decathlon for the United States at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, as a
celebration for lesbian and gay athletes.
  They were held in San Francisco in 1982 and 1986, before Waddell died of AIDS
in 1987, and in Vancouver, British Columbia, in 1990.
  Although they are open to all, swimmer Bruce Hayes, an Olympic gold medalist
in 1984 in the men's freesytle relay, said the Gay Games were especially
important to him because he felt he had had to hide his sexual orientation from
his Olympic teammates.
  ``Events like the Gay Games encourage gays and lesbians from all over the
world to come out and show that we're everywhere, including at the elite levels
of amateur and professional sports,'' Hayes said.
  The 1994 games, which are to run from June 25-July 4 and are expected to be
the biggest ever, will feature individual and team competitions in 40 sports,
including badminton, basketball, billiards, bowling, cycling, diving, golf,
judo, karate, powerlifting, swimming, tennis, track and field, triathlon,
volleyball, water polo and wrestling.
  Organizers estimate the games will generate some $111 million for the ailing
local economy.

- -
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in 93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
In 1988, the Presidential election turnout was 50.2%. Source: The Village Voice

------------------------------

From: MAC@hup.ucla.edu
Date:     15 Apr 92 11:06:41 PST
Subject:  GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 284
X-Pmrqc:  1

From: Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
To: gaynet-annonymous@athena.mit.edu
Subject: The Bible

I'm wondering if it would be possible to keep the Bible and Homosexuality
stuff off Gaynet? Perhaps a more appropriate forum for the "coming out" class
and the pro-and-con Bible discussions would be the alt.politics.homosexuality
bulletin board. Gaynet is for those who are Gay/Lesbian/Bi etc., and
"to be or not to be" homosexual is not an issue here. Those who are coming
out or the Southern Belles among us who are still hung up on the Bible stuff
might want to post on alt.politics.homosexuality. Thanks. Loren at University
of Washington in Seattle.

Welllllllll.  (I am not drawling!)

I was under the impression that GAYNET is an open forum for the
discusion of all lesbian and gay concerns.  Because it doesn't
concern you perosnally, doesn't mean it is inappropriate for the NET.

The implication of this request is that spirituality, religion and
the Bible are something that lesbian and gay people must "get
through" in order that we may not be "hung up".  Could there also be
a touch of, "Because we are evil (internal homophobia), God won't
want us?"

Many lesbians and gays are finding great strength on a myriad of
spiritual paths.  We are embracing our spirituallity, accepting our
sexuallity as God-given, and working hard to change the deep and
abiding homophobia in the American "grass-roots" religious mind-set.

I am offended by both your request and being labelled a "Southern
Belle...hung up on the Bible."  Would I call you a Godless Dyke?
No, I would not.  This type of intollerance is the same violation of
personal freedoms we fight for out there in their world, we shouldn't
have to fight for it amongst ourselves.  I feel a "Do unto others..."
coming on.  I appologise.

Harkins,
    Would you mind if I shared your E-mail (Transformation
Ministries) with Chris Glaser?  He'll be flattered by having been
quoted on the NET.

Sorry to ruffle your bustles.

Mac Phillips                            "Oh Henry.  Do you remember
                                Crusades?  I dressed my ladies-in-
                                waiting as Amazons and rode bear-
                                breasted on the road to Damascus.
                                Louis had a seizure, and I nearly
                                died of wind burn......but the troops
                                were dazzled."
                                                Kate Hepburn
                                                `The Lion In Winter'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:12:26 -0700
From: jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (The Chrome Jester)
Subject: Dance and Campout with Cal Poly GLBU

Greetings!

Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals United (GLBU) of Cal Poly San Luis
Obispo would like to invite any an all to attend a couple of events
coming up in May.

May 16th:  The second annual Cinco De Mayo dance
           Sponsored by Gay and Lesbian Alliance of the Central Coast
           and Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals United, Cal Poly
           Cost is $10 at the door.

May 30th and 31st:  GLBU campout at Lopez Lake
           We have reserved several camping spots at the Lopez Lake
           recreational area.  Come on down and enjoy windsurfing,
           hiking, campfire, and other "outdoor" activities.  We only
           have room for 32 campers (8 vehicles), so if you're
           interested in joining us, please RSVP soon.  There will be
           a cost to join the campout, but this has yet to be
           determined.  It will most likely be around $5.  Bring your
           own camping equipment and food.

For more information about either of these events, please feel free to
e-mail me.

We would be very interested in having joint activities with other
local campus GLB organizations.  If you are a member (or an officer!)
of a campus GLB organization in California, let me know so we can get
some stuff going on during the Summer and the next year.

Thanks!
JOhn.

/-John A Kusters, jr.----------------------------------------------------______
| jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu & phule@bbs.fubarsys.com              \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, we can't change things overnight!       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovksy & Phillips

------------------------------

Resent-Message-Id: <9204151918.AA08102@Athena.MIT.EDU>
Resent-Date:  Wed, 15 Apr 92 14:15:33 CDT
Resent-From: Stephanie Smith <K295SS%TAMVM1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Resent-To: Ron Devrou <Gaynet@Athena.MIT.EDU>
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 14:14:27 CDT
From: <SMTP@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Subject: Undeliverable Mail

I tried to send this to you direct, but it bounced.

Subject:      funding for clinical psyc
To:           Ron Devrou  <ron.devrou@p819.f70.n109.21.fidonet.org>

Your student can contact Division 44 of the American Psychological
Association (APA), which is the gay and lesbian division.  APA can be
reached at (202) 336-5500, and they can give you the name and number of
someone in Division 44.  Another resource is the Association of Gay and
Lesbian Psychologists.  I do not have their number, but the Division 44
officer probably will, or will know how to get it.

Stephanie Smith
K295SS@TAMVM1

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:36 EST
From: TDAVIS@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Boston and NYC Pride

Boston Pride is June 13th, and NYC is June 28th.  There
will also be two, separate pride celebrations on May 9,in Northampton
and Worcester, Massachusetts.
--Tim Davis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bible and Homosexuality
From: An Anonymous Sender

Yet more "Bible and Homosexuality" stuff on Gaynet appeared after I voiced my
opinion (against having the "debate" here on Gaynet, in favor of moving
the discussion to alt.politics.homosexuality bulletin board).

What do YOU think?

Please post your thoughts here on Gaynet (i.e. whether you are FOR or
AGAINST carrying on the "debate" here on Gaynet.  Please send PUBLIC
responses to GAYNET. I regret that due to time restraints and work
responsibilities I cannot respond to or acknowledge mail sent to me
individually.

Loren at University of Washington (Seattle)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:01 EDT
From: CHOUCK@smith.smith.edu
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 283

This is a reponse to "Shimi"'s posting about Paglia: While I don't agree
with her on most issues, and I agree that her stance is a response to
rejection by the same circles she most defiles, I DO believe that she
raises a valuable point.  Scholars, students, established movements
shut out dissonant voices.  In an audience of over 500 students, her
abrasive, reactionary approach caused a visible, vocal exodus within
the first ten minutes.  TEN MINUTES IS NOT LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE AN
INFORMED DECISION ON ANY OPINION... especially if it is the first ten
minutes (introduction).  Although Paglia rubs my fur the wrong way, and
I disagreed wholeheartedly with her views about the Lesbian community,
placement of responsibility for violence against women, gays, et.c.,
the experience of that lecture forced me to realize ways in which I
disregard, shut out, stifle opinions other than those which fit into
my own agenda; I feel that if other people react in the same way,
her lectures serve a valuable purpose.
                   ( This is NOT to say that your opinion isn't
                     valid;  I would neither invite the woman to
                     dinner nor attend another of her lectures...)
                                             (:  -C.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:44:59 EDT
From: mike.w.miller.40@nd.edu
Subject: Sexuality survey -- careful!

>Now on to a question I have (I've also posted this on Gaynet)
>
>Does anyone know where we (or I) can get my hands or computer fingers on a
>Kinsey survey.  I thought it might be a good idea to see what would happen if
>the entire campus (hopefully) were to fill it out - how many would be 7-10
>gay/les, 4-7 (bi), and 1-3 (breeder).  (sorry)


Well, as you'll be told ad nauseum, the Kinsey scale is only a seven point
scale, from 0 to 6.  You did, however, get the relative poles right -- 0 is
pure hetero, 6 is queer to the bone.

However, I'm not sure that having a campus-wide survey may be such a good
idea.  Let me tell you what happened at Notre Dame when that was done as
part of a student government survey for a Board of Trustees report.

The results, about as I expected, were that 1% of the campus reported being
homosexual, 2.9% reported being bisexual, and the rest, 96.1% reported
being heterosexual.

Fortunately, I saw those results coming and got another question on the
survey that helped explain the results.  We asked people if they were
having sex with exclusively the same sex (7%), both sexes (3%) and
exclusively the other sex (90%).  Go figure -- 10% were having some
same-sex activity -- who would have thought it might be 10%...  The problem
is that some people (a lot *here*, in the sexually dysfunctional world of
Notre Dame) are screwing their roommates, but don't consider that or
themselves gay or even bisexual -- hence the difference between the 10% gay
and bi activity figure versus the 3.9% gay and bi self-identification.

Additionally, when you have the results publicized that only 1% of the
campus is gay (and trust me, the fundies will try that tactic to discredit
everything you have to say when they learn the survey results) then you
have to spend a lot of time and energy trying to explain to everyone:

  *that the activity figure was an expected 10% and
   why homophobia created that survey gap between
   the label numbers and the activity numbers, because
   people are reluctant to label themselves gay
   if that means labeling themselves with society's
   dominant image of what it means to be gay

  *that the gay number could /only/ be too low, because
   people have plenty of reasons to say they *aren't*
   gay when they really are, but not too many compelling
   reasons to claim to be gay when they aren't

  *that many people are so heterosexistly ingrained
   with the notion that they couldn't be anything but
   straight, and those people may not discover their
   true sexuality until after they leave campus


I'm not saying don't make the survey -- I'm just suggesting that extreme
caution be used in designing it (make sure to do what we did and try to get
at people's orientation in ways other than a direct question) and also in
publishg the information gathered.  I would recommend a press release with
the data to interpret it -- preferably co-issued with a statistician/social
scientist and a psychologist to legitimize your interpreatations of the
data and what it may say about people, and why.

If anyone would like more info on the Notre Dame survey (which was really
splendidly written, if I may say so), please get in touch with me.  If
there is enough interest, I may (*sigh*) type it in for everyone...

Peace,
Mike!


***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***
*  ______  |  Mike! <=> Mike W. Miller           office:  219 239-8024  *
|  \    /  |  e-mail:  Mike.W.Miller@nd.edu    home/fax:  219 237-0788  |
|   \  /   +------------------------------------------------------------+
|    \/    |  Clinton-Tsongas in 1992!    They're not Bush and Quayle.  |
*          |  Office of University Computing, University of Notre Dame  *
***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
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