From: adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.services
Subject: Re: GEnie/Internet gateway?
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:01:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug18.132208.23168@homebase.vistachrome.com> 
andy@homebase.vistachrome.com writes:
 
>>      GEnie needs input and solutions - not defenders.
>
>Yup.  And the proper forum for that is not here in alt.internet.services,
>but on GEnie - to FEEDBACK via private electronic mail, and as articles in
>the correct topics (I can give you a list, but you've already been posting
>there :-).  
 
        That's fine for feedback from GEnie users - most of whom don't
*know* enough about Internet to provide that feedback.
 
        What I was refering to was feedback from knowledgable Internet
users who are discussing the gateway - i.e., non-subscribers. If you are
forwarding the context of the discussions *here* (and elsewhere on Internet)
to GEnie management, you are providing that type of feedback. Were you to
solicit suggestions from the Internet community as to ways in which GEnie
could streamline its Internet gateway, and as to what would attract people
here to join GEnie, you would likewise be providing a valuable service.
 
        It isn't my responsibility to provide private input to FEEDBACK - I
*pay* to be there, I'm not *paid* to be!  When GEnie starts providing
private feedback to me, then perhaps I'll reciprocate! :-)
 
        As far as posting here in alt.internet.services goes, *here* I have
no worries about being censored, having my messages deleted for being "off
topic" (and _that_ is a VERY relative term, as you know) or for being
unsuitable for some other reason, or of being put on "read only" status for
having challenged the official GEnie policy line publicly - which I HAVE
seen happen on GEnie RTs (remember when merely _mentioning_ Linda's name in
a message got you banned from an RT or when discussing the arbitrary
decision to drop Kahn's Category on GENIEuse meant having your message
instantly deleted?). This is _public_ forum. If the GEnie Internet gateway
can't stand the exposure of frank discussion *here* than it is DESPERATELY
in need of revision!
 
 
>Since you are concerned about the "Computing RT Sysops", then
>a letter to Kent Fillmore, email address DRACO, is also appropriate.  He
>manages the entire Computing On GEnie area and I feel sure would enjoy
>reading how his areas will suffer by this Internet gateway.
>
        You mean as a GEnie employee and a Computing RT Sysop *you* havent
already informed your collegues as to what to expect? Give me a break, Andy!

        I notice, btw, that you are arguing that these communications should
be kept private on GEnie - but you haven't attempted to refute my statements
that GEnie is bound to "modify" the current Internet access to prohibit
users from downloading programs as (free) uuencoded files from SIMTEL or
subscribing to computer related lists. If you sincerely believe that GEnie
will *not* do this (and in your official capacity, given that you are the
primary source on GEnie for users to turn to for accurate information on the
Internet gateway, you *should* know GEnie's plans in this regard) then
commit yourself to that fact, publically - HERE! Obviously, if GEnie turns
around and lives up to my prediction (made from a user's perspective only
with no inside information beyond experience with GEnie's "floating"
policies), you will come off either as a dupe or as dishonest - but if you
believe in GEnie to the extent you claim, you should have no fear of that
occuring. If, otoh, you *DO* expect those "changes" (read rip-offs), then
your defense of GEnie in this newsgroup *does* put you in somewhat of a
bind.
 
        I'm not trying to back you into a corner Andy, but you're taking an
attitude that the subject shouldn't be discussed here - and implying that
views which question GEnie's integrity are inappropriate. I dispute *both*
of those points. This is a perfect place to discuss the issue, since the
only other public forum is GEnie itself - where policy may *not* be freely
challenged without having your messages censored at the whim of the sysop!
 
        I'm not stating that you - or any other sysop *would* delete such
messages. But the fact that such messages *could* be so deleted hampers any
attempt at real communications. And questioning GEnie's integrity with
respect to policy has *always* been something that resulted in a user being
placed on read only status. 
 
>My "defense" here was purely to state factual information, not opinion or
>diatribe.  My "defense" on GEnie is to support those who =have= signed up
>for the Internet product (and by the way, the help file from FTPMAIL is
>now online:), and to answer technical questions ("how to" and "can I do
>this") for anyone who cares to ask.
>
        The GEnie "defense" is extremely appropriate. But your "defense"
here is very much opinion laden - look at your previous posts!

-- 
    rick.adams on GEnie   /|\        You are right from your side,        
     adamsr@netcom.com  /  |  \        And I am right from mine.          
    adamsr@irie.ais.org \ /|\ /  We're both just one too many mornings,   
   adamsr@norwich.bitnet  \|/  And a thousand miles behind. (c Bob Dylan) 
Newsgroups: alt.internet.services