From: RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Problems with Paul's history of Jesus
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:45:08 GMT
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

Some comments on orthodox christian theology regarding the death of Jesus:
Orthodox view maintains that though Jesus was composed of two essential
parts - one human and the other divine, yet it is the human part which
suffered and died and not the divine part (since that would be suicidal
for the theology, as rightly questioned by Paul Harvey, and explained
by Charles Hedrick). Some other christians, however, consider that both
the divine and human part of Jesus died on the cross. The orthodox
view is self-defeating also if one has to accept the dogma relating to
atonement. We are ever reminded by these christians that Jesus had to
be divine in order to be a sufficient sacrifice for the original sin
(which is however rejected by all other semitic religions, Judaism and
Islam); but when it comes to the sacrifice the divine part is not actually
sacrificed, but only the human part. This is indeed a ludicrous dogma
which requires the Infinite (or divine nature of Jesus) to be sacrificed
yet in reality we are told that the Infinite is not actually sacrificed.
So, how could a human Jesus atone for our sin?

The other view which holds that both the divine and human part of Jesus
was sacrificed on the cross is equally ludicrous owing to the very fact
that it even violates (on a critical analysis) the very essence of
Trinity. Since if Jesus had died as a God (or son of God, whatever it
means) and the three components of Trinity are supposed to be coeval,
omnipresent, etc., etc., then surely one has to accept the fact that
one of the components of this Triune godhood was missing when Jesus
died as a God on the cross (for the period between his giving away
ghost and the so-called resurrection from the death). So, were we living
for three days and three nights (actual calculation by whatever means -
Jewish or otherwise, however, fail to show the actual three days and
three nights that Jesus ever lived in the sepulchre) in a biune Godhood
system? This whole theory of Jesus sacrificing for the sin of all human
being is so ludicrous and incoherent that had Jesus returned on earth
and seen what became of his teachings, he would simply be apalled.

A related comment on the Jonah's being thrown overboard:
Jonah was thrown for disobeying God's commandments when he fled from
Nineveh, whose people were ungodly. He lived in the belly of the fish,
did not die inside, and was thrown on to the shore alive. If one were
to accept the gospel accounts about Jesus's offering signs to people
"an adulterous generation looks for a sign, and no sign shall be given
except that of Jonah, for Jonah was three days and three nights in the
whale's belly so shall the son of man be in the belly of the earth...",
then one must question did Jesus violated God's commandments, too;
was he alive,too, in the grave, and also on the cross (without ever
dying)? If the parallel with Jonah has to be fulfilled in relation to
Jesus's promise, then the answer for each of the above questions must
be in the affirmative. This, of course, would be suicidal for christianity
to accept since that would mean that Jesus indeed did not die on the
cross. (Note also that gospel writers themselves disagree as to whether
Jesus really promised a sign or not.) He was alive all along, so the
whole myth of sacrifice is nonsense.

Another related comment for the so-called lamb of God sacrificing for humanity:
Why was Jesus complaining to his God: Oh God, why have you forsaken me,
if he was supposed to carry the sins of all human beings and redeem us
through his death? There are many lesser candidates on this earth who
for a much smaller prize (e.g., for his country or belief) would volunteer
for death by crucifixion, firing squad, hanging (you simply name it)
with all smiles, no complaints. Why this poor fellow, Jesus, a.k.a. son of God,
was complaining for this supposedly noble act? Why was his earnest prayer
(before his capture by the soldiery) unanswered by his God (or Father)?
There are many such riddles one can only ponder about. The fact of the matter
is Jesus was only a human being, a Prophet like other Prophets before him,
who never taught Trinity, nor the associated creed which goes now under the
garb of christianity.

--
Siddiqui.