From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Subject: welcome back Goldberry
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:17:48 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


Hi Goldberry --

In article <Bvp5t7.K78@twwells.com>, you write:
>
>...uneasy about reappearing in asar - what if I am not welcome
>anymore (considered a traitor for being away so long or something
>like that)?  If anyone else feels (s)he is willing and able to
>give me a pat on the back (e-pat?)  or a welcoming e-hug, it
>really would help in dealing with my fears of rejection and
>abandonment.  Please?  (uh how I hate asking...)

I'm glad you could ask, and I was really glad to see you back.  It
sounds like you are making ways to find out what you need to do and
then do it -- pursuing your healing how and when you can.  What more
could anyone want?  (well, probably tons, but pragmatically speaking,
not a whole lot).

>Great!  The next thing I worry about is that now that I dare
>speak of my needs, I will be considered terribly and unforgivably
>selfish... 

It is not selfish to speak of your needs and to ask for help in
meeting them.  It *would* be selfish if you *required* that others
meet them on *your* schedule and in exactly *your* way at all times.
(isn't that what the people who abused us did to us?)  Actually, I think
stating your needs clearly is a way of showing responsibility to
yourself -- and if you don't seem to be getting them met, then
negotiating ways to have help in meeting them is another way to be
responsible.  Please continue to "dare" speaking of your needs.  Some of
us need to see how to do this (over and over and over again).

> Why am I STILL so
>scared of offending anyone (or anyTHING, even if it *doesn't*
>move!)?  I guess this is an issue that is surfacing big time
>right now...  Blah.  While I worry about all these things, I also
>watch myself from sorta "outside" and I can quite clearly see how
>I'm "apologizing all over the place".  While a strong part of me
>feels that this is quite ridiculous, it's also like that's how I
>am *supposed* to be...  "Excuse me for that I exist" - that's how
>and who i *ought* to be!  Anyone else feel like this?

yes, up until recently that's exactly how I felt.  Why not, the
training I received from infancy led me to that conclusion!  The thing
that is really weird is that I have had a shift in my perceptions and
have learned that I can (possibly) love myself (sorry to be repetitive,
folks, but this is changing all of my viewpoints, I think) -- and since
then, I don't feel as though I need to apologize for existing and
taking up space and time.

You know what -- if you offend someone knowingly and with intent to do
so, that is one thing (probably impolite), if someone is offended by
something you do or say, when you had no intention of giving offense,
well, that is more or less their problem to deal with.  [Depending on
the circumstances, of course -- it is always good to be honest *and*
diplomatic to increase the probability that someone will actually
listen to what you are saying.]  In any case, one of the revelations
I have had is that *I'm* not *always* the one who is in the wrong when
someone has been offended!  Isn't that a bizarre notion?  That someone
else might actually be flying off the handle as a result of their own
problems and issues, and if they were a-ok, nobody would have felt
hurt.  Pretty wild.

So, Goldberry, I'll be happy to affirm that your worry about offending
anybody or anything is ridiculous, as you stated, and I do know how it
is to feel like I need to apologize for existing.  It doesn't (have to)
stay this way, though, I'm glad to say.

>... asar ...
>was very clearly one of the things that pushed me a
>BIG step further with my healing.  ...
>You helped me see I had a choise (I could wait until I
>found a therapist that felt right) even when things looked their
>most desperate.

This is a really good thing -- the idea of choice being there for
us now, as adults.  We didn't have choices as small children (or,
at least, if I had them as a 2 to 3 year old, it was beyond me to 
understand them) -- but we do have choices now.  Learning to identify
the choices and make reasoned decisions among alternatives is something
that is very important for all adults (abuse in background or not).

>When it comes to choosing healing tools, I have found that I need
>to listen carefully to my support needs to get a feeling for what
>I might need at any particular time.  I don't always have a
>rational or otherwise clear reason as to why I want to do X and
>not Y for my healing today / this week, but I try to listen to
>the little voices inside that *know* what is right.

This is neat.  It seems like a really good way to go.

>As a last example: I have had sort of wanted to start martial
>arts training or get into boxing (properly coached these seem
>like very good outlets for physical aggression, and I know have
>loads of that, even if it's buried pretty deep right now), but I
>have felt that I'm not ready for it yet.  I think that these
>might well be a part of my healing some day, but that day has not
>come yet.

When you feel ready, be sure to choose a school and teacher (for 
martial arts anyway, and I assume boxing, too) carefully.  Watch several
classes, speak with the instructor(s) and students, be sure it feels
like a good place for you.  I've been training in karate for three
years, and it is making a huge difference in my healing.  It has been
really hard at times because of my fear of that physical aggression 
lurking inside of me.  I'm learning a lot about ways to face myself
and work with myself on those parts -- it's really a big help and quite
a gift from my instructor and training partners.  Almost half the 
students where I study are abuse survivors (mostly sexual abuse, some
physical abuse) -- in various stages of recovery.  It doesn't come up
while we train (unless someone is having a really, really bad day), but
there is an understanding about commonality of experience that is kind
of helpful at times.

{Lydia said]
>    *Thank you* for posting the story of your year so far -- your
>    courage is amazing and inspiring,
>
>I was moved and somewhat embarrased to read this.  Courage?  Me?
>Amazing and inspiring?  Somehow I have a really hard time seeing
>that anyone could see me like this.  But THANKS, I was glad, too,
>to read this.  I also know this is the kind of feedback I need,
>that chalenges my old, deep-rooted ideas about myself.

yes.  courage, you.  inspiring, you.  You shared a lot of what was
working and not working for you.  I enjoy knowing about what works
for people -- and finding out about things that are tough (sometimes
I feel less alone with certain struggles that way).

>Yes, [progress] is possible.  Funny how much easier it is for me to be
>complemented for what I *do* than who I *am*...  You gave me
>something to think about here, thank you *very* much for that!

Interesting notion.  There is a bit of a paradox about this *do* vs
*am* idea.  I've read that as far as *others* are concerned, who you
are *is* what you do -- that is how you are perceived and how people
know what you are like.  At first I thought that was the old "if you
aren't doing something 'important', you aren't anybody worthwhile", but
I think that isn't quite right.  I think, if someone sees you *do* 
things like taking care of your needs, asking for help, writing when
you need to, finding time to cheer someone else's efforts -- then
they think you *are* courageous, and hardworking, and helpful.  It
is hard to answer the question of "why am I a deserving human being"
with "because all human beings are deserving" when sometimes concrete
examples that show one's humanity (human-ness) can bring home the idea
of who one is.  If that makes any sense to you....

>Oh I feel like an idiot for being so insecure, but if feeling
>like an idiot and talking about it is what it takes for me right
>now to go on with my healing then that's what I'm going to do.
>Dear asar, do you think you can bear with me?

sounds like a good idea to me -- try what works and keep going!
I don't think you are alone in that insecurity, or in feeling like
an idiot about it.  I think it will pass in time -- I've gotten to a 
more secure place recently and think it is probably possible for
everyone.

>Does this sh*t ever end?

well, yes and no.  Do you mean for you, or for the world, or absolutely
and forever?  I kind of doubt it.  Do you mean the intensity and feelings
you are coping with right now (and the past several months), yeah,
I think it does.  I speak from a place of seeing the light at the end
of the tunnel -- it is in the distance, but it is there.

good to see you back.  have some fun!
NLA
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery