From: mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Gary Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Organization: SubGenius Inner Circle Knights - Lodge #273 - Dallas
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:22:45 GMT

(C D Burdorf) writes:
>
>Give me a break!  You guys like to go on and on about how magick is a form
>of science and then you are unwilling to present evidence of the results of
>your experiments with it.  Not only that, but you say you can't tell me,
>because then your magick won't work and that it will be "throwing pearls
>before swine."  I've had the same response from quacks and fakes in many
>different dissiplines.  These are just poor excuses that people use, because
>they are afraid of being exposed and unmasked.  Perhaps I should give you
>the basics on the scientific method:
>
>1)  Come up with a hypothesis
>
>2)  Conduct experiments.  As a result of those experiments 
>    alter your hypothesis into a theory.
>
>3) Present your results to the world.  Your results will only be accepted
>when other people in other places can replicate the results of your experiments
>which back up your theory.
>
>If you refuse to present your results or even your experments in detail, then
>there is no logical or rational reason why anyone else should accept what
>you claim.  
>
>Since you refuse to present experiments and results, then I can only conclude
>that you are deluded and not to be trusted.

First off, watch it with that "is-of-identity" crap. WE are deluded?
Not you? Hmm... maybe you're deluded into thinking that the Scientific
Method is the ONLY way to gain knowledge. And it is effective for some
things. But it's like Godel's Proof - just as no mathematical system
can describe EVERYTHING without appealing to a larger mathematical 
system, no system of knowledge can describe anything without a larger 
system of knowledge. And in both cases, it winds up going into infinite
regress, never becoming complete. So please, stop worshiping Science
as if it were the only god in the pantheon.

Second, it's more a matter of individual tastes whether a specific
individual states the results of experiments and rituals. "Know to
keep silence" has a pretty binding effect on most, but not everyone.
For starts, try reading R.A. Wilson's "Cosmic Trigger" for a description
of experiments. Now, it deals more with pharmaceuticals than actual
ritual, but it does mention several specific cases of him trying
various practices. Also, and this aught to help satisfy you, he gives
possible explanations based on quantum mechanics for these phenomena.

If you haven't given up on us yet, you may also want to try "The Conscious
Universe" by Kafakos? and someone else (I don't have the book on hand),
and printed by Springer-Verlag. It deals mainly with quantum mechanics
and the concept of complementarity, but also deals, briefly, with how
quantum mechanics may bridge the gap between science and religion --
and, by extension, the gap between science and magick/mysticism.

Finally, I reiterate: as the Hell's Angels put it, "Those who say don't
know, and those who know don't say." Why they said that, I don't know.
If you MUST be convinced, try the rituals yourself. Any decent book
store has a New Age/Occult/Magick section, and you can practice the
rituals given therein. (Any suggestions for him? I figure he's looking
for the "quick and dirty" approach. I know, I know... but humor him.
At worst, by this point he thinks we're all crazy fools. That's OK.
Rev. Ivan Stang once told me about a witch that was convinced that
all UFO sighters were either lying or crazy. Even if they swear up
and down that they saw SOMETHING, but aren't sure which, this guy
was convinced. Too bad that one of "us" would act like that...)