From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:52:12 GMT

fdvlba@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Fort Davis VLBA site) writes:
>steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>fdvlba@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Fort Davis VLBA site) writes:
>>>laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu (Laszlo Nemeth) writes...
>>>>i am not anti rec.motorcycles.cruiser but people that want the harley
>>>>group are anti rec.motorcycles.cruiser because that would let in bikes
>>>>that are "similar" to harleys.
>>>I want the harley group.  I am not against .moto.cruiser.  Probably wouldn't
>>>read it, I don't like the cruiser style or feel.
>>>I have an HD motorcycle.  It is not a cruiser, with wire wheels, high bars, 
>>>twin chrome pipes, etc. Cruisers were invented by the Japanese. The cruiser 
>>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>look is an attempt at HD styling.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>You are correct on the second highlighted sentence, but incorrect on the
>>first highlighted sentence.  If anything, your second sentence supports the
>>assertion that Harley defined "cruiser styling", which is the absolute
>>truth.  Perhaps this all comes down to our individual definitions/concepts
>>of exactly what a "cruiser" is.  It might prove difficult to define for a
>>charter; then again, maybe not.
>
>If I am right that the cruiser look is an attempt at HD styling, then how
>can I be wrong that the Japanese invented it?  The cruiser look started as
>a harley\british style attempt, the Yamaha 650 Special twin. 

Then how would you classify the pre-Yamaha 650 Norton Commando?  The first 
Commando I ever saw was on a showroom floor.  It was pearlescent white and
chrome...BEAUTIFUL...enough to take your breath away.  I'd call that Commando
a cruiser.  The Yamaha 650 tried to *copy* that _look_, as well as the
_look_ of a long-low Harley with spoked chrome wheels.  Those are *all*
cruisers.  My classification of "cruiser" includes most Harleys, as well as
many British bikes, and the motorcycle designs that attempted to *copy*
them (Viragos, Shadows, Intruders, Vulcans, etc.).  The fact that a 
manufacturer tries hard to copy a _look_ assists in classifying the copy 
along with the original.  Note: the FatButt, a.k.a the Honda Pacific Coast,
is *not* a cruiser...it's disgusting. :-)

I perceive that part of the problem you and I are having is in forming a
concise, exact definition of "cruiser."  I will admit that this is probably
nontrivial.

>The point here is that I don't regard my bike as a cruiser, and would not
>post to .cruisers about it.

And I regard your bike as a cruiser.  So what's the difference?  The bike
hasn't changed, only the definition we place on its classification, and hence
the other motorcycles allowed within that classification.  Perhaps you 
don't want a newsgroup which includes those other cruiser-type motorcycles,
because maybe you consider their input as noise compared to what you would
like discussed.  Again, the definition and perhaps the lack of exclusion is
the rub.

> [...] There are too many
>posts (of *any* kind) to rec.mc, with little meat between the bones. 
>Offloading this bandwidth to apropriate groups seems logical.  Obviously the
>establishment of .harley by itself is stepping on too many toes.  I propose
>the establishment of companion subgroups, such as rec.moto.yam, .honda, etc.
>This seems the equitable solution, and would make rec.moto leaner and at the
>same time more universal, with hardware specific poop pigeonholed properly.

Like I said before, I oppose the formation of *any* motorcycling subgroup
on the basis of *marque*.  I think that you'd have a difficult time, *more*
difficult than rec.motorcycles.harley, trying to form any other subgroup
solely on the basis of marque.  If rec.motorcycles.harley fails on this CFV,
your best bet is to form subgroups on the basis of function or activity, and
I base that opinion on observations of subscribers posts as well as precedent
such as r.m.{dirt|racing}.

>Good luck w/the exhaust and new family...

Thanks, and have a great ride!

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu       "Ineluctably Prolix" - John Norman Sims, Jr.
Come an' get it!  Served up nice an' *hot*!!  Get yer FREEEEE *logorhea*!!!