From: mayor@ic14.umeeng (Cam "You didn't see me!" Mayor)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:02:58 GMT
Reply-To: mayor@ic14.umeeng
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 10514@gdr.bath.ac.uk, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>
>Give me a break!  You guys like to go on and on about how magick is a form
>of science and then you are unwilling to present evidence of the results of
>your experiments with it.  Not only that, but you say you can't tell me,
>because then your magick won't work and that it will be "throwing pearls
>before swine."  I've had the same response from quacks and fakes in many
>different dissiplines.  These are just poor excuses that people use, because
>they are afraid of being exposed and unmasked.  Perhaps I should give you

  No, people aren't going to demonstrate their magick for you because 
they don't give a flying f*ck if you believe in it or not.  I am not
going to demonstrate my sexual encounters to you just because you don't
believe that I'm having them, or you think they're something else.  

>the basics on the scientific method:
>
>1)  Come up with a hypothesis

OK. 

>
>2)  Conduct experiments.  As a result of those experiments 
>    alter your hypothesis into a theory.

OK.

>
>3) Present your results to the world.  Your results will only be accepted
>when other people in other places can replicate the results of your experiments
>which back up your theory.

Bite me.  My results are FOR ME, MYSELF, and I ALONE.  I don't care if
anyone else accepts my hypotheses, theories, or results from this domain.

>
>If you refuse to present your results or even your experments in detail, then
>there is no logical or rational reason why anyone else should accept what
>you claim.  
>
>Since you refuse to present experiments and results, then I can only conclude
>that you are deluded and not to be trusted.
 
  You do not need to lecture me on the scientific method.  I am a 
scientist, and an engineer.  The scientific method is my friend.  It
has helped me understand and quantify the world around me.
  
  Who cares if anyone else should accept my claims?  ...I don't.

  I WILL actually share my results with others that wish to learn, grow,
understand, etc., but I will NOT share them with self-righteous-one-method-
is-good-for-everything-scientists-with-blinders-on. 

  Take a look at your assumptions about magick.  As a scientist, you should
know that the way you create the question determines the kind of results
that you are already expecting to find. (ie. Hey Bob, what is it in the
Asparagus that enhances your smell-sense so that you can smell the stench of
your urine better?  Moot point, Doug.  The asparagus just makes my urine
stink, that's all.)  Even if people can accept and understand your
scientific tunnel vision, you won't get any useful information until
you can ask the question correctly.  

  And, as always, the best way to find something out is...INVESTIGATE it
YOURSELF!  Yes, I guess it may take you 5-20 years before you have enough
of a grounding in magick to be able to answer your own question, but that
is something through which we all will have to go. (all virtuoso's excluded :)

  Until that time, go back to your log-periodic paper and your
oscilliscope trace.  Perhaps they will provide you with the objective
reality that you need.

cam.

Ps.  I feel its ironic that it is the scientific method that has helped me
    to cut so well to all the crap that one encounters along their way
    while following the path that magick also follows.
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