HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: m248-97.dlamber-091192110701
Organization: BGSU University Computer Services

What about blocks of ice ? I would think a solid hit would blow it a part.
Fun, Safe and Clean what more could you want.

Don Lambert
University Computer Services
Bowling Green State University
        	       	       	       	       	       	
INTERNET : dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Barrel break-in
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <7860@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
#
#A while back I read on here somebody's recommendations for a new barrel
#break-in "ritual."  It required, among other stuff, some "Brobst JB
#Paste" and some "Ed's Red."
#
#I've called around, and the unanimous response is "What?  Spell it?"
#Except for one dealer who said, "Brobst... I think I used to carry that
#some time ago, but nobody ever bought any, so I stopped."
#
#Was this an obsolete procedure, perhaps?  Are there equivalents I could
#obtain today?  Or is there someplace special you have to go to get this
#stuff other than your local dealers?
#-- 


I've been meaning to ask a similar question of the group. Some time back I'd
been told that there were definate proceedures for breaking in a new barrel
but it wasn't specified exactly what that proceedure was. I've since asked
one member of the group directly but I think it would be an interesting subject
to explore as a group. I'd like to hear what any others have to say on the 
subject.

-Steve
From: matt_d@warp.mhd.montana.edu (Matt Donnelly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: National Guard highpower changes
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:14 GMT
Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering



  October marked my second trip to the Winston P. Wilson matches
at Camp Robinson, Little Rock, AR (the National Gaurd Championships).
We were greeted this year with the news that this (1992) would be
the last year for the traditional bullseye format of shooting.  The
matches had traditionally been set up with National Match Rifle, 
National Match Pistol, and M60 machine gun competitions among others.

  The new format will be something along the lines of combat-oriented
shooting.  Each state will send a team consisting of 3 people on the
M60, 2 snipers, 5 .223 shooters, and 5 9mm (or .45?) shooters.  The
M60 and sniper formats will be standard, but the rifle and pistol
shooters will be involved in some biathlon-type stuff (run and shoot).
Sorry I am fuzzy on the details.  My coach says he doesn't even know
what the new format will be.

  To get to my point, I am extremely disappointed in the change.  I
don't understand the long-term benefits of the US Army Markmanship
Unit (USAMU) making this change.  In my opinion, marksmanship is
the building block on which all other combat skills are developed.
Isn't that the philosphy behind the DCM?  From what I understand,
the army gaurd will no longer support training in bullseye shooting.  
That in itself should reduce the number of participants in the 
MOntana NRA highpower matches.

  Here are a bunch more questions..
-Is this a step in the demise of the DCM?
-I was introduced to highpower through the Natl Gaurd.  Will the
    NRA highpower program suffer through lack of participation
    when no military personnel are exposed to the sport?
-The rumor is that this is a USAMU policy -- not just Natl Gaurd.
    Will the regular army lose their excellent highpower teams?
    What about Camp Perry?
-What will happen to the thousands of match M14's out there in all
    of the states?  The new format will require mouse guns.
-Traditionally, the states markmanship coordinator was allowed to
    loan out M14's to responsible civilians to get them interested
    in highpower.  Will that program continue with M14's, M16's or
    not at all?

  I'll be happy to try to answer questions from the group, but as
you can tell I'm not very well informed myself.

  In traditional army style, at the awards ceremony for the WPW
matches the officials got up there and slammed the dedicated
shooters by saying, "We've got these trophys that have been around
here for 40 years.  Now that we are discontinuing the old matches
we were just going to throw these out but we decided instead to
give them away to this year's winners.  That way at least
_somebody_ will look at them."  That's class....

Sincerely
Matt Donnelly
From: marc@tsw.UUCP (Marc Kilburn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Aiming, Dillon Reloaders, and HK Rifles
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:01 GMT
Organization: The System Works, Redmond, WA


I hope no one minds 3 disparate questions.

I have put a couple thousand rounds through my first gun, a Sig P228.
Great gun, I group a clip in 6-7 inches at 25 yards.

1) How do I get better at aiming?

2) Which re-loader should I get?  The owner at the gun shop
   Burien Discount Guns in Seattle, recommends a single-stage
   press so I learn the 'art' of making cartridges.

   I lean toward the 550 or 650 Dillon.

3) I am thinking about semi-automatic rifles, and I think I like
   the HK-91 or the SR-9.  I would like to know more about rifles
   and what opinions there are about Heckler & Koch Firearms.

Marc Kilburn

-- 
- .Sig Sauer P228
- '90 FXLR
- '78 308GTS

[MODERATOR:  Your Humble Moderator studied long and hard before
purchasing his first press, and then bought the 550.  He has never
regretted it, but does not recommend it without the prior research.
Pick up a copy of the Lyman guide, the NRA Handloader manual, maybe
one or two more separate books that describe the process (Speer,
Sierra....), THEN call Dillon's 800 number and ask for the back issue
of Blue Press which describes how the 550 works.  THEN you'll be able
to make a very informed opinion about whether (1) a progressive is
for you, and (2) whether Dillion would meet those progressive needs.
Also on the net in our archives is Henry Schaffer's summary "adventures
in reloading", which I recommend too.]
From: Dave.Maycon@EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baby Desert Eagle
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:01 GMT

I believe that Handgun Magazine (in their article on combat handguns)
said that this is simply a relabelled version of the Israeli made
Jericho.  They seemed to like it, but then again they seemed to like ALL
handguns...

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"We... have no use for adventures.  Nasty disturbing uncomfortable
things!  Make you late for dinner!"  -- B. Baggins 

Seth Eliot,            Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                       Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu            --------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb        
---------------------------------
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Long Range rifle?
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:47 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

# viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
##	I should admit it right now -- this is first-hand information, but
##I can't verify it.  A close friend of mine is an ex-Marine sniper, and
##claims he was ordered to place third, I believe it was, at a competetion
##for this reason. 

#Was it really for that reason, or did his CO _tell_ him it was for 
#that reason? (For all we know, the CO might have had other reasons,
#like a side bet... )

	I talked to my friend again this afternoon.  He maintains he
was ordered to place third for the reasons I mentioned previously.  He
is now rather annoyed at his CO, since he hadn't thought of that angle
before, and it sounds the most plausible.

	BTW: all responses on this thread were spot-on, and for what
it's worth the match was a Marine Corps match only, not intra-service
or otherwise involving loads of people.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger M77MkII .308 Nosler 150gr Loads wanted:
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:36 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

I have a Ruger M77 MkII stainless in .308.
Having gotten a REAL good deal on some Nosler 150 gr. "Partition" Spitzers,
I was wondering if anyone had a really good hunting load for this combo.
I appreciate any tips/help.
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:45:55 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

Those small propane tanks are nice. Merely place a
road flare appx. 6" from it, go about 50 yards (minimum) away,
and kablam! :)

 *** WARNING, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS ***
 I am not responsible, blah blah blah etc etc etc,
From: mbehrens@barqs.amd.com (Mikael Behrens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun ammo sequence.
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:15 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Nov5.133744.2960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
evore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore) writes:
| 
|      As these discussions of armed encounters are common on the net,  
similarly,
| you may find it the topic of conversation when a bunch of gun enthusiasts  
get 
| together to shoot.  My topic revolves around a debate I have been  
participating
| in for years now; in defending your home with a shotgun, is there any "best" 
| combination or sequence of ammo which would be optimal?
|      Some arguments go like this:

--arguments deleted--

|      There are, of course, an infinite number of combinations, but these  
seem 
| to be what I hear the most.  Does anyone out there have any other ideas?
| 


I like to put one of those 12 guage marine flares last, so that if I don't  
resolve the situation with the real ammo, I can signal for help! (or burn the  
house down, or blind everybody, or all three.)


Mikael
(I am, of course, kidding.)
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:20:04 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <BxK0GE.3It@scylax.uucp>, scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET writes:
#you stick to older designs at your peril.  God forbid you ever
#had to confront a foe with a Glock 21 with 14 45 ACP rounds in his gun,
#with a 1911 model in your hand.  All things being equal you are
#in serious trouble.  It is fine to go to a competition with a 1911

Oh boy, did you open it up!!!

#From my own perspective, I think that holding a Glock is like grabbing
a brick (as a friend so aptly put it). My hands fit around fine, but 
it is so square, that I don't shoot well with them. The main thing to 
remember is that you should carry the gun that YOU SHOOT BEST WITH!!!!!

If I ever went up against a clone of myself, with me having my 1911A1 
Gold Cup clone, and HE with a Glock 21, HE would SURELY LOSE!!!!! With 
my Colt clone, I can shoot RINGS around myself with a Glock (any kind, 
not just the 21). It all depends on the shooter. The gun and the shooter 
become a system, and determining the best system empirically is the 
only way to be assured of getting the best system given that one half 
of the system (i.e. you, the shooter) is NOT a variable. Choose what 
you shoot best. Period.

Of course, that means shooting from the position of carry.............

#but to carry a gun cocked and locked all day, would make me real
#uneasy.
#
#People still like to shoot arrows and I bet it is terrific fun
#Many people like 1911 for their own reasons and thats fine too.
#Now, I have a habit to look at police officers' guns to note what
#he or she chose.  It is amazing how many of them chose to carry

Ever hear about police departments issueing weapons?? Or only 
allowing officers to carry certain "approved" guns??

#Glocks.   I guess than when you are expecting trouble you want
#the state of the art on your side and no less.  

I want the gun that I can defend myself with best. If that means 
I use a Colt Peacemaker, then that's what I will use. Don't get so 
hung up on "state of the art". It's just an advertising gimmick 
to make you upgrade your possesions often (and spend more money).

If you shoot best with the Glock, then by all means use it. I, however,
don't because I shoot like $hit with it. Everyone is different.

Note that this is not meant as a flame, or meant to sound disrespectful.

In some ways, I envy you that you DO (I am assuming) shoot well with 
a Glock.

Later, Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese TS45 air rifles (need info)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: JUTS.48G=022e2a2U01
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


I bought one, and it is a BARGAIN for the price. It is nice and accurate.
Drawbacks are:

crappy sights, poorly finished.

Buy one.

later, Eddie
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Barrel break-in
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:16 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <10116@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> brian@53iss6.waterloo.NCR.COM (Brian W. Gamble) writes:
# ...
#Anybody got a definitive article on how to hand lap bores? In particular,
#the differences in procedure between rifles and handguns? A pointer to
#a published text would be fine - it's time to upgrade my library.

Lead Bullets Technology
HCR62, Box 145
Moyie Springs, ID  83845

sells a "Bore Lap Kit" ($9 + shipping) with the instructions and
abrasive to "fire lap" a fair number of guns.  This company is run
by Veral Smith, and his book Jacketed Performance with Cast
Bullets, 3rd ed. ($12 + shipping) covers lapping plus a wide
variety of other cast bullet topics.  (I think that shipping for
the book alone is $3, $3.75 for the lap kit, and $4.50 for both -
although I'm having trouble reading the shipping prices and it
could be that $3.75 will do it for both.)

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun ammo sequence.
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:54 GMT
Organization: Chevron

........1.........2.........3.........4.........5.........6.........7.........8

In article <1992Nov5.133744.2960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, evore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore) writes:
|> ... in defending your home with a shotgun, is there any "best" 
|> combination or sequence of ammo which would be optimal?
|>   Some arguments go like this:
|>      1. slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, etc..  The idea being an assortment of 
|> hallway sweeping, door/wall penetrating loads which will tend to seek and 
|> eliminate your intruder.
|>      2. #8, #6, #4, BB, 00 buck, 000 buck, slug.  The idea is to apply the 
|> least amount of force necessary (yes, catching any of these would be terrible) 
|> to at least try to preserve life, and you could cycle through rounds if the 
|> situation escalted too quickly.
|>      3. 00 buck, 00 buck, 00 buck, etc..  A series of very nasty loads designed
|> to stop the intruder, since you would never fire a gun at a person otherwise.
|>      4. slug, slug, slug, etc..  If you could get the shots off accuratly, this
|> would stop even quicker than idea 3.
|> 
|>      There are, of course, an infinite number of combinations, but these seem 
|> to be what I hear the most.  Does anyone out there have any other ideas?
|> 
|> E. Vore...

 The problem with combination loads is that for almost every
 scenerio in which one particular combo would be good, there
 are many others where it would not be desirable.

 What happens when, for #1, you forget what comes next, 00 or slug,
 and it makes a difference how you use the next shot? 

 What happens when, for #2, there are two bad guys and you just 
 used #8, #6, #4 on the first one, now you've got BB next, but,
 being the humanitarian you are - "trying to perserve life" -
 do you shoot?

 For home defense, if you have family and neighbors, you may not
 want to use anything bigger than T, F, 4 Buck.  How about those
 Duplex Duck & Goose loads (#4 & BB  or  #2 & T) or those Duplex
 Rabbit & Pheasant loads #6 & #4?  The #4 & BB in 3" mag is what
 I keep in my 12 ga for the house.

 TRAVIS
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Cooler Powders", Say what?
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.6NOV199209293090
Organization: who knows

dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes...
#If you have seen this month's American Rifleman, there is an article
#by Finn Aagaard on "cooler burning" nitrocotton powders from the UK.
#The idea is that these powders burn cooler while still pushing the
#bullet at the same velocity. This, we are told, will reduce barrel
#erosion. Now thermodynamics was never my strong suite, but I am having
#trouble understanding how a powder can burn "cooler" and still produce
#the same pressure and, hence, the same velocity. 

If pressure=density*temperature*gas constant, and given a lower temperature
and assuming the same pressure, maybe either the density or the gas constant
is higher.  Or maybe the pressure peak is lower but broader resulting in
the same velocity.
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock (& lock)
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <MeyJZeG00iUyQ2bQcx@andrew.cmu.edu> se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:
#Also, regarding Glock quality.  The guy at the range said that the gun
#had been "abused."  This was as explanation for why the slide wouldn't
#stay open after the last shot, and would sometimes slam shut without the
#release lever being pushed.  Any experiences out there with excessive
#wear and tear?

Well, a bad magazine is usually the cause for the slide not locking back after
the last shot.  The little shelf that pushes up the slide stop can wear, bend,
etc., depending on the type of gun and magazine.  I shot a Beretta that had
this particular problem...Not a big deal on a range gun, but a pretty big deal
if you happen to be using this gun for defense...


-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: pmod@pfbs.philips.se (Par-Mikael Odsater)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Benelli and Pardini triggers
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment BCFI AB, Sweden



************************* F O R    S A L E **********************************


New triggers for Benelli and Pardini .22lr and .32S&W Long for sale.

The trigger is 10mm wide and it's made out of aluminium with nice grooves.
The triggers has become very popular in Sweden.

Price:  $16 + postage
        27 deutch mark + postage
        100 swedish kronor + postage

For more information, feel free to send me a mail.


--
 Par-Mikael (P-M) Odsater           | Digital Equipment BCFI AB
                                    | Box 904
 pmod@pfbs.philips.se               | S-175 29 Jarfalla, Sweden 
 ..!mcsun!seunet!dakotaS!pmod@pfbs  | Phone: +46 8 7594928, Fax: +46 8 7398676
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: INFO WANTED: Automag III cal. 30M1
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:12 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov7.083042.5082@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia) writes:
#
##I'm interested in buying an Automag III chambered for .30M1 carbine
##cartridge.
##I have questions regarding:
##3) power of .30M1 cartridge compared to .357mag
#
#	Less power, more noise.

Uhhh - it's not clear in your answer, but the .30 Carbine will have
some 740 ft/lbs at the muzzle of a pistol vs. 550 ft/lbs for .357
(averaging common .357 loads).  The .30 wins the energy race (and
losing the "muzzle blast" race.)

##4) cost of ammo compared to .357mag
#
#	Isn't .30 ball pretty cheap?  I thought it was like $7.99
#a box in sporting goods stores.   .357 is like $10-20.

There's a lot of import .30 Carbine that I wouldn't run in a gas
operated firearm, but I believe that the Automag III is recoil
operated.  The reason I would fire the import stuff is the risk of
corrosive ammo - the cheaper the ammo the more likely it's corrosive. 
If you fire corrosive ammo in a non-gas operated firearm the cleaning
is a *lot* easier than if you have to disassemble the gas system for
complete cleaning.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fluted Rifle Barrels
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:36 GMT
Organization: BGSU University Computer Services

#    * Stiffer barrel for the same weight as a plain barrel of equal length.
# 
#    * Improved cooling due to increased surface area.
# 
#    * Less stress as some of the metal is removed.
# 
All of the above claims can be proved by simple Physics. The truly
important groves are still inside the barrel not outside. If you flute a
cheap barrel to still have a cheap barrel.

Don Lambert 	
INTERNET : dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 ACP, 9mm
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:53 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <1dserfINNjgs@male.EBay.Sun.COM> 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon) writes:
#can anyone tell me what is the best kind of ammo to buy for home use in
#
#45 ACP, 9mm what is the best grain to buy? is hollow point effective.

I assume you mean "caliber" rather than "grain".

Which is better is a matter of much debate an opinion.  You need
to consider stopping power (given the ammo in use); size/handling
characteristics of the gun; magazione capacity;  personal preference;
and the application the gun is being put to.  Both should serve a 
compent shooter well for defense.

Hollow point is indeed effective for self defense, though not the
magic paneca it's made out to be.
#
#Does any body own a Glock 21, Smith and Wesson 1066

I'm sure somebody own both, so the answer to your question would be
"yes".

#I want to know how you like the guns do they jam every now and then
#
#Can you mess you your gun if you reload wrong

Do you mean "reload the gun wrong" or "incorrectly manufacutre reloaded
ammo"?

#
#Can someone tell me what has more stopping power a 45 or 10

No one can tell you with certainty.

#
#Which one is more likely to do more damage to the body
#
Unclear, though damage to the body should not be the issue.  The
ability to quickly terminate agressive action is.

#Do most people prefer 10mm or 45

45.

The 10mm is being relegated to the ballistic scrapheap of history -
there are relatively few guns fo rthis caliber being sold, and not
that wide a selection to choose from.   In 10 years or so, I expect that
10mm will be about as populare at the .41 magnum is now - you'll
still be able to find ammo for it, but not as easily (or cheaply)
as 9mm, 45, and 40 s&w.

Rob Boudrie
rboudrie@chpc.org