HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis)
Subject: Re: Cheap death.
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
    <1992Sep15.140557.15294@linus.mitre.org> <1992Sep15.152236.26657@udel.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:20:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.152236.26657@udel.edu>, awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.140557.15294@linus.mitre.org> lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes:
>>How much does cyanide cost?
>>
>	Cyanide can be found in some 'free' places.  Cyanogenetic
>plants are a free source of hydrocyanic acid (unless you buy the plant
>from a garden store...).  A cupful of apple seeds should do the trick.
>So how much does a few dozen apples cost from an orchid at the peak of
                                                  orchard
>apple season?? (the apples don't have to be edible).

Apple seeds are pretty small; I don't think you'd be able to get a (8 oz.)
cupful from a single bushel.  Then again, if you go for the rotten ones, you
can probably get them quite cheap.  But if you can't eat them, you have to
buy a knife to cut them up to get at the seeds.

How about a tall kitchen trash bag ($2/package) and a large rubber band
($1/package) to secure it around your neck?  You could do a 10-person mass
suicide for only $3.

Keith Lewis             klewis@mitre.org          "Mr. Cheap"
I don't dance to music; music dances to me.  Email me for my PGP key.
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie (Lucifuge)
Subject: Re: *thunk*thunk*thunk*
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:12:31 GMT

In <1992Sep5.145149.18910@linus.mitre.org> lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes:

>>					*thunk*thunk*THUNK*ow!*

>We're going to have to chip in and buy you some padding for your terminal. 
>:^)

What? You mean that's not the sound of a knife penetrating and exiting
(incrimsonshowerliquidtormentagonyrealisation) the chest cavity. I'm
soooo disappointed...what is a.s.h. coming to??

Ollie/Lucifuge...
'This is where I want to be, 
 And I know that this, Will never be mine'
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Re: *thunk*thunk*thunk*
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:30:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.110930.6045@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.190247.15695@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu
>(angela watson) writes:
>>	Just crashing into the wall after wildly spinning about the
>>room like a top...
>>					Psycho kitten
>>					(in the upswing of mania...)

	This was supposed to indicate a good mood (I'm a clutz so I run
into things when I spin and dance around the room) 
>
>Alcohol helps.  It won't change a thing, but for you'll feel better for
>an hour or so.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Unfortunatally, I'm an alcoholic just waiting to happen (too easy
to just disappear into the bottom of a bottle).

-- 
Psycho Kitten   \ zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu    \ Check my .plan \ Just a grim    
Angela M. Watson \ awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu \ for more info  \ reaper wannabe

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave)
Subject: Re: A Desperate Attempt [SC]
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:03:57 GMT

In article <18mh0iINNmaa@bigboote.WPI.EDU> megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
>In article <18m1i2INNdgf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> gryphon@planet10.WPI.EDU (M-5) writes:
>>In article <18ltmgINNato@bigboote.WPI.EDU> megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
>>I'd post _my_ poem, too, but the subject matter just doesn't match...
>
>If you want to post it go ahead... It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom you
>know...
>
>Note: For those who don't know, Gryph is one of my coauthors on the 
>Undocumented Features saga. And he is currently being pissy and I'm a good
>target.
>
>>But it helps.  For example, Zoner isn't truly suicidal...but it gets him
>>chicks.  :-)
>
>You like saying that don't you Ben? You have never really seen me at my worst,
>I've stepped over the edge before.

Hey, no need to defend yourself on this point.  Whatever works for you.
After all, being suicidal is the ultimate plea for attention.


Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday,sci.physics
From: fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON)
Subject: Abusing the laws of physics
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:57:39 GMT

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>For the curious, I'll show that certain forms of afterlife are absolutely
>impossible.  Consider the second law of thermodynamics:  P >= 0,
>where P is entropy.

I think you mean
	\Delta P >= 0
ie. the *change* in entropy is always >= 0, that is, entropy never decreases.
[I think that it is more common to use "S" for entropy, not "P".]

>From memory, P is a "kind" of measure of the chaotic energy that can no longer
>be harnessed into useful work.  Eons and eons from now, there will no longer
>be any more energy that can be harnessed to do useful work, but the total
>energy in the universe will still be conserved.
>
>What does this mean for life after death?
>
>It means that infinite re-incarnation back to this same universe is impossible.
>At some point, eons from now, everything will be dead.

No, this conclusion is not justified by the second law at all.
Firstly the second law only applies to closed systems, and it is not at
all clear that the universe is a closed system in the appropriate sense.
Secondly, the second law is based on statistical thermodynamics, and is
"proven" using a probabilistic argument that is overwhelmingly likely to
hold in any given situation; this is good enough for physicists, but it
is not good enough for philosophers, especially when we are considering
time periods of "eons and eons".

I've cross-posted to sci.physics; maybe someone there will take the time
to explain in detail why your conclusion is not justified by your argument.

You might be able to make a reasonable case by appealing to the Big Bang
Theory, but that's only a "theory", so I guess it's not as persuasive as being
able to appeal to a "law".

-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature virus is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: none 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:49:47 GMT

>We must accept reality, crappy as it might be for some of us.
>Shooganai ne.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	No, I  do not have to accept reality (it just makes life easier
to live if we do).  Reality is just how you perceive the world around
you... if you don't like it, alter it.  Just hanging your head and saying
"I accept it, this is my lot in life" is just alot to crap IMO.  I know
people that do this... they are generally miserable and _never_ try to
change their lives for the better.
	If I have to go down, I'll go down fighting tooth and nail
(and take as many as I can with me).

						psycho kitten
 
-- 
Psycho Kitten   \ zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu    \ Check my .plan \ Just a grim    
Angela M. Watson \ awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu \ for more info  \ reaper wannabe

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: mneugeba@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Mike Neugebauer)
Subject: Dark Poem.
Keywords: -
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:38:22 GMT

	Hello there.  I am new to this so please don't flame me if I'm way out  of line on this one.  I have a poem, that I read in dark times, so I thought    I'd share it with you.  Actually this is like the only section where I've seen  poems.  Anyway, hope you don't mind.

-An Example-

A child is born, breathing in death,
His mother has sworn, to watch his every breath
He takes, if only she knew at the moment of conception
His every thought and wish for deception...

Deceived she will be indeed,
We don't need another "bad weed",
In this defeated race,
She will run after him, with quickest pace...

He will lie, He will kill,
All her insides, and still he'll will,
Death upon his brother, death upon her,
He'll close up to all, see with a blur...

He'll call life a misunderstanding,
While only he misunderstands, 
She'll pray to her god above, closing her hands,
As he wanders away inside himself, with serious distortion of mental health... 

She'll talk and talk,
He'll shut it out,
She'll mock with humorous hope,
Pushing him to get out,
She'll talk to someone,
He'll discover a gun
She'll drown in tears,
He has won...

                       By Natalie Bulieau.

Well, I have a lot of interpretations of this poem, and I know there are lots more.  Anyhow, I think this is a really deep poem, and I like it.

Mike.

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: nagji@ntc02.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: This Charming Man ....
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:34:50 GMT

This is my first ever posting anywhere on this net so here goes

My favourite Shakespeare lines : -

.to die, to sleep, no more
and by the sleep we say we end
the heartache and the thousand natural shocks
that flesh is hier to ..

My fav song - Asleep (The Smiths)

My fav day - Friday as I have Sat and Sun to spend alone

Happiest day of my life - 9th Feb 1965
  
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Follow-up to Death by MISADV..
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:12:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.212730.24488@pegasus.com>
alto@pegasus.com (Andrea Ostensoe) writes:
 
>
>Psycho kitten's post about the song..Death by Misadventure..and
>the one about Death by Lava flow..reminded me of two deaths we
>had in the islands this past year that could be classified as
>Death by Misadventure..however..they both seemed to fall more into
>Death by Stupidity.
>
>1.  Off duty navy fellow was "leading" a group of hikers into a
>extinct volcano on one of the "other" islands and it was before
>dawn..he fell in!..Luckily..his followers did not follow;-)
>
>2. Off duty military lady decided it would be fun to take a steam
>bath in the vents of our very active volcano on zee beeeg island..
>she cooked herself...i know it's evil..but I laughed..i mean..*I*
>have been known to do very stupid things..but steam bath?  volcano?
>
    Then there's the silly folk who insist on cleaning firearms without
  unloading them first...and shoot themselves.
 
e.k.
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Current Results of the Poll about Life
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 23:39:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.164737.17643@shearson.com> jjozwiak@shearson.com writes:
>I believe in an enery after death.  That energy which makes us not dead now, I
>believe continues on after the physical body dies.  

Really?

For the curious, I'll show that certain forms of afterlife are absolutely
impossible.  Consider the second law of thermodynamics:  P >= 0,
where P is entropy.

From memory, P is a "kind" of measure of the chaotic energy that can no longer
be harnessed into useful work.  Eons and eons from now, there will no longer
be any more energy that can be harnessed to do useful work, but the total
energy in the universe will still be conserved.

What does this mean for life after death?

It means that infinite re-incarnation back to this same universe is impossible.
At some point, eons from now, everything will be dead.

This doesn't rule out the possibility of other kinds of lives after death.

>I also believe in reincarnation.  BUt dont worry. You miserable people wont
>even remember how unhappy you were in this life.  You will be born as someone
>else. Maybe even a happy little baby before your parents or whatever
>screwed you up....yea, life is suffering but it is also a fucking
>miracle...... : )

For you, I presume?

Shearson Lehman must pay fairly well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: *thunk*thunk*thunk*
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:26:28 GMT


	*THUNK*...*...*

	(I don't have the energy to pick my head up and thunk it again)

	At the end of last week I felt like Wile E. Coyote when he would
look down and see that he had run off a cliff... I was just waiting
for the fall.  Now I feel like I'm falling and I'm trying to get
to the other side of the boulder that is falling on top of me...

	How long 'til I go *splat*...

	(The red bouncing fountain of blood method sounds rather fun...)

	*ug*  Time to get off the line before my poor computer is
fried by a direct stike... I'd never be that lucky...

	*...*...*thunk*


 
-- 
Psycho Kitten   \ zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu    \ Check my .plan \ Just a grim    
Angela M. Watson \ awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu \ for more info  \ reaper wannabe

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: The Miracle of Life
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 22:58:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.053649.15342@eskimo.celestial.com>
alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.134503.26251@shearson.com> jjozwiak@shearson.com writes:
>>Courage.  I think in the long run living
>>takes more courage than choosing to die, (not including painful illness of
>>course) and ultimatly becomes a greater learning experience.
>   I don't know.  You just give up, become resigned, and life will continue
>on in all it's drudgery.  Choosing to die and actually doing it takes a lot
>of willpower to overcome the bodies natural instinct to fight back for its
>existence.  Living is easy.

The fear of dying is one of the strongest emotions around; it comes directly
from the instinct of self-preservation.  It is an instinct that is exhibited
over and over again in all forms of animal life.

It takes a reasoned approach, usually, to overcome that instinct, just like
all other instincts.  That's why, I suspect, that suicide occurs at a higher
rate among the human species than among other animal species.  Only the
human mind is equipped with the reasoning power to overcome its own ingrained
instincts.

Only the human mind can reason about the value of continuing one's life
by assessing whether there is any hope left in the future.  Sure.  Whales
are known, on occasion, to beach themselves and die.  But the mechanism
that brought about this was not the result of conscientious reasoned thought;
it was something beyond the whale's control although science still doesn't
know why.

In any event, living is easier.  Choosing to die is much harder because
you must overcome the instinct of self-preservation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.suicide.holiday:2072 sci.physics:14592
From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Abusing the laws of physics
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:57:39 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>For the curious, I'll show that certain forms of afterlife are absolutely
>impossible.  Consider the second law of thermodynamics:  P >= 0,
>where P is entropy.

>From memory, P is a "kind" of measure of the chaotic energy that can no longer
>be harnessed into useful work.  Eons and eons from now, there will no longer
>be any more energy that can be harnessed to do useful work, but the total
>energy in the universe will still be conserved.

The total energy of the universe is not conserved in the big bang model.
This is only tangential to your main argument, but it's a pet peeve of mine.
See the sci.physics FAQ (which I posted today) for an explanation of this,
in the article on energy conservation and red shift.

In any event, trying to use physics to derive the absence of an afterlife
is like trying to use the Bible to prove that Evolution is a humanist
lie/conspiracy.  Keep our physics out of their  religion, and maybe they'll
learn to keep their religion out of our science.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
From: churritz@denali.csc.calpoly.edu (Skito)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Current Results of the Poll about Life
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:42:02 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization

rlee@andy.bgsu.edu (Bob Lee) writes:
>
>One thing I was pondering this weekend was sort of in the theme of the movie
>"Ghost". Try to imagine after killing yourself you rise out of your body 
>(you're soul that is) and you're doomed to wonder around the world as a
>ghost. Not being able to talk to anyone, not being able to touch anyone or
>anything, and no being(s) of a higher nature to give you any guidence as to
>what you are suppose to do and what is going to happen to you. And the worst
>part about it is that you'll never be able to kill yourself again.

i'll pardon the "Ghost" reference and move on...
That, to me would be an exquisite way to go.  Having that infinite invisibility
so that no one could hear you NOR talk to you or make you do something you
didn't want to.  You could laugh at all those sore thumb people while they
had to still try and live in this mess, while all you have to do is take a
gods view point and simply watch them be assholes.

>That to me seems like a possible fate for those who commit suicide. 
>Sort of punishment for failing your "test", the test of living.

certainly not a punishment to be able to humilate others, disabling their
attempts to humilate you.  It would be a gift to be able to be completely
alone.  Though it wouldn't be the greatest thing if you saw someone you
really liked and wanted that person to know you and touch you.  The non
touching thing would be bad.  Especially when (like in "ghost") you're shoes
are able to touch the "ground" and you can't even kick a can on the ground ;)


-skito
ancient ASHer, or maybe failed ASHer
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 06:44:13 CDT
From: M. Jacobs <U45301@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: The North

Have you seen the North
That cold grey place
Don't want its shadow anymore
On my face
A man grows bitter
We're a bitter race
Some of us never get to see
A better place

In the Northern Skies
There was a steel cloud
It used to follow me around
But I don't see it now
There's a farm in the rain
And a little farmhouse
There were a young man's eyes
Looking south

The North was my mother
But I no longer need her
You trade your roots and your dust
For a face in the river

And a driven rain that washes you
To a different shore
There's a North in us all
But my North can't hold me anymore

--Elton John and Bernie Taupin  "The One"

It's even better with the music.  Can ashers let go of that familiar
but painful direction?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Mary Jacobs          |   This is MY view   | Discontent is the first  |
| U45301@UICVM         |    not the view     | necessity of progress.   |
| U45301@uicvm.uic.edu |     of the "U"      | --  John Steinbeck       |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: A Desperate Attempt
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:26:24 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu

In article <18jvvuINNnjn@agate.berkeley.edu> jaffray@zippy.sonoma.edu writes:
>others.  I read ASH for the darkness, for the humor, for the sake of 

The same reasons I started reading ash three years ago. This group has 
changed a great deal over the years, but some things remain the same.

>seeing the many fascinating people who inhabit it... for Megazone's 
>amazingly good poetry and stories, for Set's too-rare fragments of

Wow! I'm honored. I'm glad you like them.

>I'm a pretty happy person, and as such ASH does not belong to me.

You do not have to be suicidal to talk about it. 

>Best to leave it in the hands of those who it is suited for.

a.s.h blongs to no one. Over the years there have been several gods, lords,
rulers, etc, of a.s.h, but a.s.h can never belong to anyone. It is its own
entity and we are all but cells in its body. If you ever feel that you have
anything to add, please, don't feel that your ideas don't belong.

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
From: jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: cheap suicide
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:37:23 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

The cheapest method of all is absolutely free, yet no buildings, planes,
trains, or automobiles.  Just become a serial killer, get caught, (but
only after several grisly slayings), and hope for the death penalty.
Granted it wouldn't be a timely death with the appeals and all, but it
would be courtesy of Uncle Sam.