From: frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Criterion for Godhood
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:35:06 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

shibe@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Schaible) writes:
: Hello, netheads.  
: 
: I often am confronted with people who believe in God, or in a "higher being".
: 
: Now, I asked myself recently what it takes to consider something a "higher
: being" in the religious sense.

An amazing coincidence - I just posted a similar question (what would
it take to convince you that god exists?).
 
: Say he comes from another universe, and he actually initiated the big bang.
: Do we bow down?  Well, I'd be the first to thank him, but I wouldn't be
: inclined to worship him.
: 
: Now make him immortal.  Still not good enough for me.  If this immortal
: alien father came to me--again, I'd be very grateful, and humble.  Awed--
: you bet your boots.  But worshipful?  Why?  This still isn't "God".
: 
: So I guess I have two questions:
: 	1)  What does it take for this alien to enjoy the same status as
: "God"?  Does he have to exist before anything else?  Does he have to be the
: unmoved mover (existing but uncreated)?

Strange as it may sound, I think godhood is inextricably linked
to the soul.  That is to say, if we do not have immortal souls,
then there is no such a thing as a god, and vice versa.  I say
this, because it strikes me that what "God" has that this alien
doesn't have dominion over our souls / heaven.

: 	2)  In this light, I have to ask myself:  if God himself appeared
: before me, what would differentiate him from the case of the mega-alien;
: in other words,
: 
: Even if God exists exactly as Christianity states, why should I worship him?
: Without Him, I would not exist, granted--but there's another step involved in
: going from gratitude to worship.  Take any being more intelligent and more
: powerful than me--I say, ok, I'm not so smart, and I'm not so strong, and
: I say this all along as you crank up the intelligence and power.  At no point
: during this do I take the extra step:  "therefore, I must abase myself before
: you in recognition of the difference between us."  Now drive the difference
: to infinity--has this changed?  I do not find that it has.  Is there any
: reason for my awe to become worship?  Any reason beyond threats of hell/
: promises of heaven?  (=metaphysical blackmail...)  Not that I can see.
: 
: In short, I'm sinning the sin of pride in a big way--almost as big as Lucifer.
: Why is the sin of pride considered so foul?  And what is involved in this
: jump between a mega-alien and a God, that one is worth worshipping and the
: other is not?

Well, throughout history, humans have abased themselves before humans
who have the power of life and death over them.  Divine right of kings,
and all that.  I think that, if an all-powerful alien landed on
Earth and demanded to be worshipped, he would get worshipped (even
w/out evidence of us having a soul).

As for why the sin of pride is so foul, it is because it leads you
astray - as you have clearly demonstrated! :-)

--


Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
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