From: zobell@lute.mitre.org (Steve Zobell)
Subject: Re: "LOVE" vs. "HATE"
Reply-To: zobell@lute.mitre.org (Steve Zobell)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:50:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.090524.9997@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) wrote:
>As you read the "love" and "hate" lists, mark down the ones that
>bother you - that seem inconsistent with God.

Thanks for providing the love and hate lists.  You do have an on-line
Bible and software to extract these things, don't you?  I hope so.  You
missed verses with "loved", "loving", "despise", and other synonyms,
but I don't recommend posting amendments.

>Look up these verses and get the full context. 
>
>If God hates something or someone that bothers you, search the Bible
>to find out why.  Was the occurence under the old covenant or the
>new?  

Has your God changed?  Don't you wish we could just retire that bloody
Old Testament?

>Was God patient before revealing His wrath?  

I see little difference between being torchered or killed by someone in
an angry rage or by someone who is unemotional and systematic.  

>How does this
>verse, with context, affect your view of God and how you expect Him
>to deal with you personally?  

Since I'm a nonbeliever, I expect your God to hate me.  But who am I to
ask God to change His nature?

>If you had to guess whether God would
>love or hate the object of His hatred, given the background of all
>the other verses, what would you guess?  

I personally don't see what Esau did to deserve God's hatred in Mal.
1:2-3 requoted in Rom. 9:13.  But it's a safe bet that if someone was
not an Israelite, they would be hated.

>Is it the same as what the Bible says?  Why or why not?
>(1) Does God have the right, as Creator, to
>hate something He has made?

Sure, if your the biggest and meanest supreme being, you can be as big
a SoB as you want and you don't have to answer to anyone.  I'm glad
you've dropped that "God loves everyone perfectly" line and are coming
over to the true God of the Bible!

I don't want God to be petty, angry, hateful, or jealous.  I want God
to be above these detestable emotions.  But if the Bible is true, then
that is the God we got!  We can't change Him to suit our modern
sensibilities!  I want you to be straight about the nature of God and
not sugar coat Him to help sell religion.  Maybe if you didn't fill so
many people with lies about the loving nature of God, fewer
disillusioned people would leave Christianity.

>(2) Do you, as something he created, have
>the right to hate yourself if He says He loves you, or to hate
>another He says He loves?  

I don't hate myself or anyone else, but, like your God, I don't ask for
the right to love or hate.

>Do you have the right to love something
>which He hates?  

Maybe I would have liked or even loved Esau, if I had known him.  Are
you saying I shouldn't do that?

>Does it matter what He hates if He loves you?  

God hating people offends my sensibilities, even if he loves me.  You
don't seem to care as long as you are among the chosen.  You may curse
and torcher my neighbors as long as you treat me well (said the Nazi
living next to the Jewish family).

>Does the New Testament say you are loved?

I couldn't find one verse in your list that indicates God loves me.

>(3) Who is better equipped to do
>the hating justice requires, you or God?

Justice absolutely does NOT require hatred.  The absence of hatred IS
essential for justice.

-- Steve