HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA)
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem
Summary: SHOCK COLLARS?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!?
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:24:20 GMT


I know what you mean about Golden's picking up things and chewing...the classic in my family was Jemima's "trieving" of one of the neighbours bantams...The chicken had a sense of humour failure...

Jemima, Spanish, Bonnie and Rebecca (friend's bitch) all like to pick things up and bring them to us.. and very occaisionally chew them. We discouraged this by giving them one of their legal toys and have them sit on their beanbags.. or just plain giving them some attention.

Remember Golden are mouth-orientated dogs, they were bred to retrieve and thus, like small children, have to test everything with their mouths. 
 Thus to cure your bitch of this habit, installing some toy- Nylabone bone or a squeaky whatever, as the legal toy and keeping an eye out for your bitch sloping off to get something contraband will help

			 ******FLAME TIME*******


	Putting shock collars on a dog, especially ones as sweet tempered as a Golden is cruel. This retrieving of articles doesnt sound malicious, just the actions of a dog who requires some sort of distraction.
	Lets see what happens if we were to put shock collars on men, and use them every time they scratch their genitalia...!

	Amanda MacKinnell
	Puddledog Retrievers

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: willett@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (david.c.willett)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:47:26 GMT

From article <2A9126C7.23768@ics.uci.edu>, by tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore):

{ Preamble & some other stuff deleted }

> Chris is outraged any time a lab is not used for hunting.  But let's
> examine this scenario a bit more fully.  He says that it "degrades"
> the breed if you have labs that do not hunt.  Well, I disagree.  Let's
> postulate that we have a litter from the best possible parents in
> terms of the balance for labs.  Even with this super litter, you will
> have variations: some will be better than others at different things.
> You find that you have a non-birdy pup, so you sell that pup as a pet.
> 
> Now, this pup is *not* doing anything to degrade the breed.  There is
> a normal extent of variation within any litter and this can happen.  A
> labrador that does not hunt is not a problem. Even in the ideal
> situation, where only "perfect" labs were bred, you'd still have this
> occuring.  Genetics are too complex to bring out clone after clone, no
> matter your breeding program.  I won't even get into the intricacities
> of those dogs that do not display certain characteristics, but
> consistently pass them on to their offspring.
> 
> Now, suppose that this pup is bred and has a litter of puppies.  *Now*
> this is a problem.  But is it a problem because the puppy is
> non-birdy?  No, the problem is that it was *bred*.  And now we're in
> the world of back-yard breeding and all those associated problems.
> But the problem never was that that pup was not birdy.  Back-yard
> breeders are a menace to ALL aspects of the balance: looks,
> temperament, and abilities.
>

{ Other stuff deleted }
 
I believe Cindy (and others who've made similar points) are contradicting
themseleves here.  On the one hand they say:

	...Genetics are too complex to bring out clone after clone...

so "birdy" parents will produce "non-birdy" offspring.  Then they say that
the non-birdy offspring should be sterilized because they would "ruin the 
breed" if allowed to reproduce.

Don't the same laws of probability and inheritance which allow birdy parents
to produce non-birdy offspring allow non-birdy parents to produce birdy ones?

-- 
Dave Willett          AT&T Federal Systems Advanced Technologies
attmail!dwillett      (AT&T FSAT)
A dog is a dog until he is facing you.  Then he is *MISTER* dog!
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Tips on Introducing a Second Dog
Date: 18 Aug 1992 14:50:25 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis) writes:

>This seems to be an almost weekly occurence....but I need the net's
>advice yet again ;-)

>We're picking up our second puppy the Saturday of Labor Day weekend,
>and I'd like some tips on how to make sure his introduction to our
>first dog is a pleasant one.

We have done several introductions:

Rott puppy was original dog.  

Introduce 6 month old Sheltie bitch to year old Rott.

Introduce 7 week old female Border Collie/Great Pyreneese cross to 18
month old Rott and 12 month old Sheltie.  

Introduce 8 month old male Rott to 3 year old Rott and 18 month old
mixed breed.   

Introduce 8 week old Bassett to 3.5 year old Rott and 2 year old mixed breed.  

Introduce 7 week old male Rott to 4 year old Rott and 2.5 year old
mixed breed.   

This is old hat for us at our house.  Our policy has been very much
hands off EXCEPT when we introduced the Sheltie to the Rott.  For that
encounter, we put the Rott on a lead in our house and let the Sheltie
loose.  It took almost 1 day for the Sheltie to make friends with the
Rott.  In the 6 months that followed, they became best of friends.
When we introduced the BC cross to the Rott, the BC puppy ran across
the floor and bit the 90 lb Rottweiler on the nose and the rest is
history.   They get along fine.  The other introductions were very
uneventful.  We *do* protect puppies from extremely rough abuse from
the adults initially, but that usually only has to last a few days.  

>How do you keep the dogs out of each other's food?  

I physically prevent it.  I do not force the dogs to guard their own
food, I do it for them.  I prevent the adults from eating the puppy's
food, and prevent the puppies from eating the adults food.  This
patrol usually lasts about a month and then everyone leaves everyone
else's food alone.  I have never had to get harsh about this.  A
simple "EHHH" with the adults or pushing the puppy away from another
bowl is all that has been required.  

>Sleeping arrangements shouldn't be a problem.  The pup will be in his
>own crate beside the bed.  Max has bed privileges (he got them from my
>husband).  

I slept beside my Rott puppy's crate on the floor for a month when I
brought him home.  It really reduced the crying and helped him bond to
me.

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Subject: Re: Kerry Blue or Wheaten Terrier
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:54:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.190541.13604@u.washington.edu> intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing) writes:
>After much reading and discussion, my partner and I have decided that we
>would like to have a Kerry Blue Terrier *or* a Soft coated Wheaten
>Terrier.  Leave it to us to pick a breed which is difficult to find. 
>Anyway, if anybody out there knows of a breeder of these lovely animals in
>the Pacific Northwest area, please let me know.
>
>Thanks.

You can call the AKC (number is in one of the FAQs) and get the number
of the parent breed club.  Then write to them and ask for breeders in
your area.  Or you can pick up a copy of Dog World or Dog Fancy.  They
have breeder advertisements (alphabetically by breeder).  Perhaps a
few will be in your area.  Many of the parent breed clubs advertise as
well.

schalene
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (BLO54626-BonhamM(DR2020)214)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: 2 dogs need new homes (half-Samoyed male; American Eskimo female)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:25:30 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <2A91E8CD.22017@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
|> In <19396@drutx.ATT.COM> mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <1573@sousa.ltn.dec.com>, belanger_f@wmois.enet.dec.com (Fred Flintstone) writes:
|> [need to get rid of two dogs, fast]
|> 
|> >Fred --
|> 
|> >There is a simple, effective and cost effective way to keep your
|> >dogs.  Get them debarked.
|> 
|> >Sky Warrior (with Asbestos suit on)
|> 
|> Well, I'm not going to flame you.  But I am going to point out that
|> many debarking procedures heal up and the dog regains its barking
|> ability.  It depends on the ability of the vet that does it (and in
|> most cases, whether or not full recovery occurs, some "improvement" in
|> the barking tends to occur).  Just a data point to remember.

This is true with a bilateral ventriculotomy (sp?).  The scar tissue will fill up
the gap where both skin flaps were removed.  However on a unilateral (one skin
flap removed) there seems to be greater success and less chance of scar tissue
regrowing.  Another way to minimize this is to keep the dogs quiet the first week
after the operation.  (Less irritation= less chance for scarring)

Sky Warrior

-- 
-----------------------------                                              
SKY WARRIOR aka MLH Bonham  | "Good tea.  Nice House." -- Lt. Worf
mammoth!mlhb@druhi.att.com  |----------------------------------------------
mlhb@drutx.ATT.COM          | SKY WARRIOR RACING KENNELS - Coming to an
                            | Iditarod near you!
-----------------------------
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: dog digs holes
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:06:43 GMT
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In addition to heating/cooling pits, frustration, etc., dogs sometimes
dig _for_ something.  Archer's favorite mining claim (right under the
clothesline, so we had to put a stop to THAT) mystified me for a while.
Then I noticed that green army men were appearing in the yard.  You 
know, those little plastic toy soldiers that kids buy by the bagful.
He'd found a mass grave of green army men (and pieces of broken glass
and sundry household debris) from the previous owners' kids, and every 
time he felt like excavating and chewing a forbidden object, that's 
where he went.

I stopped it, incidentally, with some large chunks of broken-up
sidewalk too heavy for him to move, as a stopgap measure until I can
pour a concrete pad under the clothesline.  Ordinary training measures
could not compete with his love of green army men, and smaller objects
such as bricks might as well be marshmallows when a dog that big and
stubborn gets a notion to move something.  

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: What Questions to Ask Breeders -- Summary
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:13:12 GMT

In <1992Aug12.152602.26626@sequent.com> schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.170343.28301@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com writes:
>> schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis) writes:
>>
>>|
>>|ELEVATION DOMINANCE:  (Degree of accepting dominance while in position
>>|of no control)
>>|
>>|Bend over and cradle the pup under its belly, fingers interlaced,
>>|palms up and elevate it just off the ground.  Hold it there for 30
>>|seconds.
>>|
>>|Struggled fiercely, bit, growled....................................1
>>|Struggled fiercely..................................................2
>>|No struggle, relaxed................................................3
>>|Struggled, settled, licked..........................................4
>>|No struggle, licked at hands........................................5
>>|No struggle, froze..................................................6
>>
>>Are these responses in the right order?  I would have expected 3 and
>>4 to switch?
>>
>They are in the right order.  This is part of a standard puppy
>appitude test.  Can't tell why they're ranked the way the are.  Guess
>you'll have to ask the Volhards.

The reason is that the licking displays a willingness to forgive
readily.  This is more submissive than simply relaxing (just relaxing
indicates more confidence and a higher degree of dominance than
forgiving).  Forgiving is not bad at all, it's easier to work with a
dog that will readily forgive you!


--Cindy
--
Cindy Tittle Moore -- Terrell's Chocolate Deduction (chocolate labrador bitch)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: The Great Lab Debate
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:06:14 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

>As far as obiediance, very little needs
>to be said here; a dog that doesn't have superiour obiendaince simply
>would be impossible to also be a good field worker.  Same goes for
>temprament.

I disagree with this, Chris.  I have known several dogs that were very
obedient in the field, but put them in an obedience ring and ask them
to heel and they would not.  I've even seen experienced trainers give
up on making them heel.  It is one thing for a dog to do what comes
naturally and quite another for the dog to do obedience.  Ever looked
at obedience from a dog's perspective?  It looks pretty stupid once you
are down on your for paws looking through doggie eyes.  

On temperament I disagree here too.  A hyper temperament can lead to
good field trial scores and terrible scores for the dog as a pet.  I
do not believe that field work is the do-all-end-all test for hunting
dogs any more than I believe protection work is the end-all test for
working dogs.  

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton)
Subject: Re: DOG WITH CANCER
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:45:13 GMT


As someone who has recently had to deal with this myself (although
Annie's cancer was not lymph-invasive), first let me tell you how sorry I
am that you have to go through it.

All I can do is tell you that the questions you ask are the same ones I
asked myself while I was deciding on treatment--except that Annie's
cancer (squamous cell carcinoma in her mouth) had the possibility of
100% cure (maybe).  My first concern was that my happy dog stay happy--
I wasn't going to be in the position of running her around for cancer
treatments of one sort or another.  My second concern was that 100% cure
meant just that (although it was speculation before surgery, of course)
and that I wasn't going to be continually confronted with a cancer process
in her mouth.  My third concern was that my dog is *only* 3 years old.
Could she live a long and healthy life if we went through this?  And
what would the quality of her life be?  It's *very* tough to think about
putting down a "healthy" 3-year-old dog.  My fourth concern was this not
break me financially.  I'm in a very precarious financial position and
I'm not willing for us to go live in Golden Gate Park so that my dog can
get cancer treatments.  I am fortunate, however, to be surrounded by
friends who either have dogs of their own or who are sympathetic to how
I feel about my dog.

When my friend's dog was very ill last year (and he was unemployed himself)
and he was wondering whether or not to continue to seek treatment, I told
him that at least by having her treated he would never have to second-
guess himself about whether or not it was the "right" thing to do.  That
if Yoshi died, he would know that he had done everything possible to
save her life, and that later on it would be quite a comfort to him.
As it turned out my friend got a new vet and the two of them tried to save
Yoshi, but by then it was too late (she had been misdiagnosed by another
vet).  It cost him a lot of money (and Yoshi was never in pain), but I
think that he feels very well-settled about it.

These are hard questions.  Maybe propelling yourself forward in time and
seeing how you want to look back at this time with your dog will help
you find some answers you can live with.  Best to you.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Am. Cocker Spaniels -- Hunting Titles
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:58:03 GMT

The discussion about (American) Cocker Spaniels' loss of hunting instinct 
and ability piqued my curiousity (since I have one).  The person who
responded by saying that English Cockers probably have more hunting ability
and certainly more opportunities prodded me to get out the AKC Gazette's
statistics annual.  So, for what it's worth, here are the 1991 statistics
for English and American Cockers:

American CS:
649 CH 184 CD 55 CDX 14 UD 6 TD 2 TDX 10 JH 2 SH

English CS:
193 CH 49 CD 15 CDX 3 UD 7 TD 1 TDX 6 JH (no SH)


Someone who loves math could convert these to percentages according to
AKC registrations.  Obviously, even though the American CSs took more
working titles, there are fewer English CSs, so the percentage of working
dogs would be higher for the English breed.  However, American Cocker Spaniels
are indeed beginning to show up again in hunting and field trials.  
And they do pretty well in obedience, also.  (I'm training mine for Open now.)

My brainless beauty loves to flush birds out of the yard, and she'll swim
after anything.  She retrieves forever and jumps like there's no tomorrow.
She's also pretty stupid about a lot of things, but she makes up for it
with tail wagging.  No, I wouldn't want to depend on her to find my dinner,
but I don't have to.  On the other hand, she might be better at that than
lots of other "hunting" dogs I've known.
-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: dogs and fire
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:55:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.172250.16812@pbs.org>, dnoll@pbs.org writes:
>
>I am in the process of upgrading the smoke detectors in my house.
>This made me wonder what my dogs would do if there was a fire in 
>house.  Obviously, if we were home, we'd be sure to get them out.
>But what if there was a fire while we were not at home?
>
>Anybody know what a dog would do?

I have no idea what my dog or cats would do - & to be honest, it
makes me ill to even think of such a tragedy.

However, there are large stickers you can get (pet stores, feed stores,
RC Steele) that go on windows and doors that say "In Case of Emergency
Save Our Pets" and tells how many pets there are inside - this is to
alert rescue teams. We have ours posted at doors and windows in our house.
We also send a note every year (with our yearly contribution :+) to our
local fire department explaining how many pets we have, what they look
like, and where they'd likely be.
Ugghh - I can't even think about this anymore; I just get too upset :+(


*********************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am./Can. CD, CGC, TDI *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                             *
*                                                       *
* standard disclaimer applies...                        *
*********************************************************

From: johnson@hplred.HP.COM (Renee Johnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:11:21 GMT
Subject: Re: giving heartworm pills
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs

/ hplred:rec.pets.dogs / tachaimov@hou.amoco.com (Tom Chaimov) /  1:01 pm  Aug 12, 1992 /
We've been giving our 9 month-old doggies
daily Filaribits, too.  I think that the daily ritual
of giving them their pills with breakfast every
morning prevents me from forgetting.  I think
I'd be much more likely to forget if I'd already
given  them their medicine earlier in the month.
And besides, the kids like their Filaribits so much,
it's like they get a doggy treat every morning!

Tom
----------
From: angela@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Lakwete)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem (with question)
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:33:23 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

Terri Hull's explanation of the shock collar was extremely
informative.  I also assumed that its use was cruel and unusual
punishment and perhaps "easier" than puppy-proofing the
apartment or crate training or obedience classes.  I think this
is the common reaction.  I wish somehow we could know what the
ultrasonic barking devices sound like to dogs.  How do they
manage to dissuade barking (when no one is home).  Terri, would
the collar be a deterrent used in the same way Chris suggested
for the mouthing problem?  Anyone?
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~angela@brahms.udel.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
:           Univ. of Delaware: History of Technology             : 
:                     CompuServe: 72657,1125             
   "To endure yourself may be the hardest task in the universe."
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Need help writing Nasty Letter
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:20:31 GMT
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <1992Aug14.145603.370@speedy.aero.org> amiranda@ariel.aero.org (Ann Miranda) writes:
>In article <23444@alice.att.com>, rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin) writes:
>|> 
>|> 
>|> >  	Does anyone have any ideas, comments, concerns, flames, 
>|> > whatever else that could help me? I'd appreciate `em!
>|> 
>|> yeah, forget it.
>|> 
>
>"yeah, forget it"? Easy for you to say! It isn't your pet, and it isn't
>your problem.  
>	I think it would be pretty irresponsible to just forget it
> and let the breeder continue to breed a mangy dog! 


I agree with the original poster.  I think that this dog owner might be
over reacting.  It is very common for puppies to pick up mange while
nursing from their mothers.  It doesn't mean that the bitch is inferior or
that the breeder was irresponsible ( although it does raise the
question... why did you buy from a backyard breeder in the first place? 
But I digress...). 

My puppy came home with a similar condition. During her initial exam, it
turned out that the little scratch on her head was actually mange.  My vet
gave me some cream, and within a week or so, the problem was gone. 

I'm not a vet, but I think the blame lies with the new owners.  Was the
new puppy, upon purchase, taken immediately to a vet for a thorough check
up?  If so, why didn't the vet catch the problem <maybe you need a new
vet!>.  If the puppy was not taken in (shame, shame), why did you wait
until your puppy had a rip roaring case of mange before you sought out
treatment? 

Another thing about your post also caught my attention.  I may have just
misunderstood you, though.  Did you buy this female to abate the sexual
frustrations of your male dog?!  NO, NO BAD OWNER, NO! < :^) >  Do
yourselves and your dogs a favor and have them both spayed/neutered.  You
shouldn't breed dogs just because your male is "over-sexed".  The world does
not need another backyard breeder!

-Carol
and Trixie (the mangeless wonder)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: hobright@src.honeywell.com (Lesa Hobright Turner)
Subject: Re: David Simmons == net.cop
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:25:11 GMT



Sorry David, you've burnt to many bridges on this net to get any support!!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs