HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: [BIO-SOC] Eggplants (was: Imported food (was curry))
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:17:23 GMT

In article <JUSTIN92Aug17.164045@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.132424.15211@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
>>[I'm not sure where the eggplant was,
>>but I have the idea that was American too.]
>
>Definitely not. We've done a feast based on 13th century Muslim Spain,
>and found that a *large* percentage of the dishes are based on eggplant.
>(Damned good stuff, too -- the Islamic cookbooks of that period have
>some absolutely fabulous food in them...)
>
>So, while it may well have been pretty much unknown to most of Europe
>in the Middle Ages, it was certainly known to at least some cultures...
			.
			.
			.
Eggplant is a big item in world cuisine, by the
grossest measures.  Such countries as China grow
'em (and in variety that would surprise many Eur-
opeans or North Americans) by the ton.

*Solanum melongena* is native to southeast Asia.
It has been domesticated for--well, a long time;
I'll try to look that up if of sufficient interest.
Many of the other cultivated Solanaceae are indeed
Neotropical, and the plants show family resemblances
to their New World cousins, so it's easy to think of
it as "American"; it's not true, though.

I've cross-posted this to sci.anthropology, to en-
courage the s.a and r.f.h readers to get to know
each other.  I see some of the same interests in
both newsgroups.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: stcmille@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen C. Miller)
Subject: Re: why chile-hot food?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:00:39 GMT

In article <SPIKE.92Aug11172012@coke.std.com> spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes:
>
>	I saw a study a few years back which explained why people eat
>HOT peppers this way.  Pepper are not an irritant, but cause a
>chemical reaction that confuses your taste buds.  Your taste buds
>report to your brain that someone just stuffed a red hot poker in your
>mouth.  You brain responds by releasing endorphines (spelling?),
>natural pain killers simular to heroin and morphine.  You feel GREAT
>and have another pepper.
>
>	So there you have it, Hot Peppers are a drug addition.
>
>->Spike

Well, why not take the next obvious step and forget all about the
red-hot pepper and just stuff a red-hot poker in your mouth every time
you want the satisfaction of an endorphin rush?  If that sounds too
nasty, just shove a sharp needle under your finernails - much less
damaging.  The endorphin explanation begs the question.
-- 
--------------------
=
(former rock star turned grad student)
Steve Miller	 		    stcmille@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: blue@cam.nist.gov (Jim_Blue_x3809)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Kim Chee (was: Vinegar in Pickles (was: Imported food))
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:08:53 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD

The kinds of Kim Chee in our local Korean groceries do not,
as a rule, have any seafood in them. A few have some 
anchovies, but that's all I've seen
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: belas@comb1.comb.umd.edu (BOB AT COMB)
Subject: Re: Apples Apples everywhere
Followup-To: rec.food.historic
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Maryland, Center of Marine Biotechnology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:58:00 GMT

In article <5736@transfer.stratus.com>, moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes...
>I have about 6 apple trees in my yard and this year the apple crop
>in New England is supposed to be the best crop in 12 years. I have LOTS
>of green apples which are starting to ripen and fall off the tree.
> 
>I have never sprayed the trees and so most of the apples have slight blemishes
>and one or two apple maggots but basically most of the fruit is fairly
>sound.
> 
>What I would like to know is what I can do with all of these apples.
>What did people do before the advent of pesticides? I suppose I could make
>cider or applesauce but I have no idea of how to go about doing that.
> 
>What about pies? Can I just ignore the worms?
> 
>I would also like to hear suggestions about what to do with the windfall
>apples that have partially rotted. I have put them in my compost heap
>in the past and I believe that some whitetail deer have eaten some of them.
>I was wondering if these can be used for anything more useful.
> 
>Any suggestions, comments and especially recipies will be greatly
>appreciated.
> 
>-Tom
	Tom, how about applebutter?  Its easy and you can used windfalls
and bruised fruit.  All you need to do is peel and core the apples, place
in large pot with small amount of water.  Heat and mash apples when soft.
Add sugar, cinnamon, (and ginger) after the volume has been reduced and
the mixture is thick.  
	
		Bob Belas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
	"Unless you're the lead dog,
	 the scenery never changes."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
	Belas@comb3.comb.umd.edu
From: jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Brown paper loops for pasties
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:11:55 GMT
Reply-To: jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

When your pastie slumps:

1. cut ragged top off brown paper bag.
2. cut again for loop.
3. gird up your pastie.
From: martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Peanuts
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:51:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: adpplz.1498
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

Alan Deacon (one sig) writes:

: We've had chilli peppers, and potatoes,
: but what about the humble peanut. In what parts of the world is it now
: grown, and where did it start its career?

The peanut originated in Brazil, and was spread by the Portuguese, who
are also responsible for introducing the chop to Japan and the pepper
to China and Thailand, among others, for which we should be thankful.

historic note: Ancient dishes using astounding amounts of black pepper
have been preserved in Thailand, where black pepper takes the name
"thai pepper" and capsicum are just "pepper". One imagines the excitement
of the chefs when the new ingredient became available, the squabbling over
the limited supply, the borrowing and outright theft of recipes- it was a
more significant change to Thai cooking than cuisine minceur has been to us.


: Also are the words peanut and ground-nut synonymous or are there a variety
: of plants producing edible nuts underground?

According to my sources, groundnut is a word for peanut. I'm not aware
of anything else that grows that way, but that's not evidence.


Martin Golding   | Why is the Indian respect for the cow silly,
   DoD #236      |  and the US refusal to eat dog obvious?
[motcsd!]mcspdx!adpgate!martin
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: patt@squid.tram.com (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Re: Apples Apples everywhere
Organization: Tramway Unix Systems
Distribution: world 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:55:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.cooking 
Summary: Apples freeze well
Keywords: Applesauce 

In article <5736@transfer.stratus.com> moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:
> [deleted]  
>
>What I would like to know is what I can do with all of these apples.
> [     ] 

Apples freeze very, very well!
>
Peel them, slice them , add brown sugar and cinnamon and put the
mixture into zip lock bags - mark the date on them and you've got pie
and applesauce ingredients all ready to be cooked!

I got so tired of peeling allthose apples, one kind person on the
GARDENS mailing list posted a message saying that she never peeled or
even cored the apples - just rinsed them off, quartered them and threw
everything into a large pot with about 1/2 cup or a cup of water and
let it all cook down.  Run it thru a sieve and you've got strained
applesauce.  The suggestion saved my sanity on more than one occasion
:-)  

My daughter ** lvoes ** applesauce and I've still got three more quart
jars filled with the stuff - some marked "unsweetened" some "cinnamon
and brown sugar."


-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                     -       patt@squid.tram.com
Tramway Unix Systems in Naturally Beautiful BrUtish Columbia   :-)  :-)
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty." (Anne Herbert)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.gardens
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Peanuts
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:39:05 GMT

Someone recently asked in rec.food.historic a few questions
about the cultural history of peanuts; technical difficulties
prevent me from giving a good reference to the article in
which the questions were originally posed.  I'll reconstruct
them as well as I can ...

English-speakers around the world label lots of different
seeds and beans "groundnuts", but, almost without exception,
those that make it into commercial traffic are what USAicans
regard as "peanuts", that is, ripe seeds of *Arachis hypogaea L.*
Peruvian horticulturalists were cultivating *A. hypogaea* at
least by 1500 BCE (1500 B.C., 3500 BP).  They appear to have
been quite important at a number of South American locales.

Peanuts were a minor Mexican crop from 100 BCE on.

In the sixteenth century, Portuguese and Spanish navigators
distributed cultivars throughout the tropical and subtropical
world.  It's an interesting and involved story.  Perhaps of
interest to most newsgroup readers is that, from the begin-
ning of the seventeenth century, some of the Portuguese
strains had become a principal ration on slave ships.

For further botanical details, rec.food.historic readers
should know that Kay Klier and other obliging, well-educated
folks hang out in rec.gardens and sci.bio.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:38:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.214920.3655@ils.nwu.edu> wallis@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Mindy Wallis) writes:
>In article <sooz.713482238@vincent1.iastate.edu>, sooz@iastate.edu (Susan F
>Bradley) writes:
>    Does anybody out there have a good recipe for authentic Cornish
>pasties. I
>> realize that they probably don't involve much - some meat, spices, etc. in a 
>> flake pastry, but I'd like a reasonably authentic recipe. 
>>    Ever so grateful!
>
>I can't answer your question, but maybe someone can answer mine:
>
>As far as I know Cornish pasties are virtually unknown in most regions of
>the United States, but I found that they were sold in several places in the
>Upper Penninsula of Michigan.  Does anyone know why?  Is there a large
>Cornish population there, and if so, why? 
>

Yah, there's a large Cornish population in the U.P.  They came to work in
the mines (lots of tin mines in Cornwall; copper and iron mines in the U.P.).

The pasties I make (learned from an ex-S.O.'s mother) use a regular pie crust
for the dough.  Inside are chopped up beef (NOT hamburger!!  ;-)  ), diced
potatoes, rutabaga and onions.  About equal amounts of rutabaga and potatoes,
less meat, and even less onion.  Roll out a circle of crust, put the filling
on half, fold the other half over, seal, pierce.  Bake for about an hour.
They often leak, so use a jelly-roll pan in preference to a flat cooky sheet
if you don't want to clean the oven....

I don't know how authentic this is -- fairly so, I'd guess.

Lately I've been making them in pie plates with just a top crust to halve our
fat intake....

Oh -- the family I learned this from garnishes the pasties with catsup.  I
don't like catsup on hotdogs or burgers or fries, but I like it on pasties....

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Peanuts
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:12:18 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Aug17.122855.22902@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> Alan Deacon (one sig) writes:
>Had a rather nice satay as part of a Chinese meal the other day, which
>got the old brainbox twitching. We've had chilli peppers, and potatoes,
>but what about the humble peanut. In what parts of the world is it now
>grown, and where did it start its career? It may not be grown worldwide
>but it certainly crops up as an ingredient in quite a wide range of
>countries.
>
>Also are the words peanut and ground-nut synonymous or are there a variety
>of plants producing edible nuts underground?
>

To the best of my knowledge peanuts (aka ground nuts, goober peas,
etc.) come from West Africa and were introduced to North America along
with African slavery as a cheap and nutritious slave food. Probably,
the worldwide trade in new food plants brought them to Asia. I think
peanuts will and do grow in most well-watered, warm climates.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:41:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug11.214920.3655@ils.nwu.edu> wallis@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Mindy Wallis) writes:
>
>As far as I know Cornish pasties are virtually unknown in most regions of
>the United States, but I found that they were sold in several places in the
>Upper Penninsula of Michigan.  Does anyone know why?  Is there a large
>Cornish population there, and if so, why? 

If so, theey must be geographically confused. Everything must seem reversed,
East to West and North to South from the geography of Cornwall!
 
Greg
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:12:49 GMT

There is a local dish in NC that looks *just* like a pastie, in that it
has a lard-pie crust, half-moon shell, potatoes, carrots, and a starchy
gravy, but it's made with venison marinated in red vinegar and 
seasonings...
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties (crusts)
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:30:48 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

Pastry in English cookery seems to have been generally made with hot
water until about the 17th century.  Hot water pastry is much tougher
and more solid than any modern pastry; it is still used in English
pork pies and the French equivalent (pate en croute).  You could use
it to build a pie crust which would stand up without an enclosing pie
dish before it was cooked, and would keep the filling in.  That's
probably why they used it (I mean because pie dishes were not thought
of), but it might be because the available flour would not make a good
cold-water paste.  Even nowadays, cold-water pastry only works if the
flour contains a good proportion of high-grade wheat; it's tricky with
rough wholemeal, and seriously difficult if there is a significant
amount of rye or other grain in the flour.

The "invention" of cold-water pastry was sufficiently remarkable that
John Aubrey, writing in the seventeenth century, thought it worth
recording in one of his "brief lives". Unfortunately I forget who it
was who (according to Aubrey) discovered it, but Aubrey clearly
thought that it was a new and VERY GOOD thing.

    John Wexler

P.S. I say "English" deliberately, because, although I live in
Scotland, I don't know enough about historic cookery here.
Organization: Comp & Comm - Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:56:33 -0400 
From: Gretchen Miller <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties (crusts)
	<Bt544q.G3p@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.food.historic: 17-Aug-92 Re: Cornish pasties
Paul Lalonde@qucis.queen (1124)

> Well, I don't know much about the cornish pasties in particular, but I
> think that the flake pastry is a fairly recent innovation.  As I
> understand it, the main reason for carrying pasties about is that they 
> are portable food.  As such you don't particularly want a delicate flaky
> pastry, but rather a toughish durable crust that will keep your meat in
> a coherent chunk.  A flake pastr is just too delicate.  

I don't know about flake pastry, but crusts were pretty sturdy in days
of old. In support, I submit the following pie crust recipes, taken from
"A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye" circa 1565.  The main ingredients of
pie crusts are still flour, fat (in this case butter) and water, but
sometimes eggs are added (this makes the dough hang together better) 
I've given a "translation" of each, experts should feel free to correct
and annotate:

First, there's a short paste for tarts:
To make short paest for tarte  - Take fyne floure and a cursey of fayre
water and a dysche of swete butter and a lyttle saffron, and the yolckes
of two egges and make it thynne and as tender as ye maye.  
(translation  Take pastry flour, water, butter, two egg yolks and
saffron for coloring, mix them together to make a delicate dough, and
roll it as thin as you can. )

Then there's a paste for a meat pie, similar, but not a bit stiffer:
To make Pyes - ....and yf you wyll have paest royall, take butter and
yolkes of egges and so tempre the flowre to make the paeste
(translation - Take butter and egges and mix it with your flour.)  Since
what you put in it is both fatty and syrupy [in this case fine minced
meat, prunes raisans and dates, suet and vinegar] it's probably a pretty
stiff dough, in fact, this should make a reasonable dough for pasties.

Then there's a paste for making the coffin (crust) for an apple pie:
To make pyes of grene apples - ...then make youre coffyn after this
maner, take a lyttle fayre water and half a dyche of butter and a little
Saffron, and sette all this upon a chafyngdyshe tyll it be hoate then
temper your flower with this sayd licuor, and the whyte of two egges and
also make your coffyn...
(translation - Heat a little water, half a dish of butter and a little
saffron [probably until the butter melts], then mix in your flour, then
add the whites of two egges and form your crust)

toodles, gretchen
From: martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Vinegar in Pickles (was: Imported food)
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:33:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: adpplz.1490
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR


>> And as long as we're on the subject, I've been looking into pickles,
>> trying to figure out where they came from, and who started putting vinegar
>> in them. 

dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams) writes:

> The fermentation process started putting the vinegar in.  ;^)

Well, yes. (Interestingly, this is also the source of vinegar in sushi,
which was originally a fish preserved by pickling on rice; people in a
hurry skipped the process and just vinegared the rice.)
But:

> Really it seems to me that use of vinegar is as modern as
> canning (or bottleing).  This allowed the homemaker to 
> skip the brine curing or fermentation process.

That's what _I_ thought originally, which was what started the project.
I'd just helped a friend make eight dozen quarts of brined dills from an
old family (Czech) recipe. _All_ the current US cookbooks I could
find pickled primarily, or partially, with vinegar.  

I figured "Aha, part of the great home economics disaster" when most US
food and cooking went to hell (those of you whose families preserved
the real recipes, this is a thank you, not a flame).

Except that canning was invented under the patronage of Napolean, and I've
read an ancient Roman recipe that added vinegar to salted things.  
(It was the English translation of Apicius, I'll recheck it this evening).

So, 

Cheerfully admitting that the predominance of vinegar in the US is due to the
overofficiousness of the Ag. and home ec. people (who are the government,
and here to _help_ you), some of the recipes I have seem to be old, and
still use vinegar either as part of the brine, or to replace the brine once
the vegetables have aged. I'd like to have some dependable references on:
  Adding vinegar to a salt pickle
  no salt (vinegar based) pickle and
 Were there, or were there not, salt and/or vinegar cured vegetables in
use in the Americas before the Europeans?

And as long as we're on the subject, does kim chee _always_ include some
kind of seafood, or just usually?


Martin Golding   | If there were a God,
   DoD #236      |  cocoa butter would be monounsaturated.
[motcsd!]mcspdx!adpgate!martin
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: Re: Curry:  A war rages on
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:39:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <11AUG199209091499@zeus.tamu.edu> jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL) writes:
>Currently there is a small thread on R.F.C about the history of cury powder 
>and curry food in general.  Most of the talk has been about not wanting all
>curries to taste the same.  However I would like to know if anyone knows more
>of the history of curry?
 
"Curry powder" is an artifact of British Colonials wanting to take back
pre-mixed spices from India. It neglects the understanding that the 
spicing of foods is a fine regional art which can't be captured in a
dayglo-green powder (the use of which has become an art in itself).
 
Greg
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb)
Subject: Hot food: Gyngerbred
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 23:47:02 GMT


After all the talk about hot food, I thought I'd share this with you:
(All instances of thorn replaced by th in the text)

Sloane 468 (Good Kokery, EETS Curye on Inglysch section V.18 1985)

For to make gyngerbred.  Tak & put half a quart hony in a bras panne
and boyle it wel ouer the fer, & stere it with a potstyk of tre that
it sit noght to, & lat seth til it be thikke as wex. & thanne tak a
dischful of fayre water & drop theryn of the hony, & if it fare as wex
tak it doun & wete a gret treen vessel wel with water, & than por in
the hony. & tak a pound of pouder gyngere & a quatroon of an vnce of
pouder peper & medele hem wel with the hony & lat kele. & whan it is
cold take a pyn of tre or of an hertes horn & stike in an hole of tre
that is bored with a wymbel, & tak up the hony & drawe it about the pyn
ten tymes or xij, til it wexe as hard as it were tempered wex. & do it
in a box, % strawe above pouder of gynger, & this is kendlich mad.


In more modern terms:
Heat 500g honey to soft-ball stage, stirring all the while to prevent
sticking.

Mix in 500g powdered ginger and 5g freshly ground black pepper, stir
well, then pour into a lightly-greased tray to cool.  When it is cold,
pull it like toffee and cut into bite-sized pieces.  Coat them with
more powdered ginger to prevent sticking.


I find that this stuff is very good, but a little chewy.  The recipe
dates from sometime in the 14th century.  All I can say is that ginger
must have been very cheap then.  We use a less ginger than the
recipe calls for, and the result is still quite fiery!



			Regards,

				- Peter Chubb

Softway Pty Ltd, P.O. Box 305, Strawberry Hills, NSW 2012, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61 2 698 2322;       Fax: +61 2 699 9174;     Telex: AA27987
Internet: peterc@softway.oz.au	   UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!peterc