From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Clayton Evading Again?
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:38:41 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: kane@buast7.bu.edu

After failing to admit his incorrect interpretation of the "overrepresented"
nature of homosexuals who are child molesters, Cramer again fails to comment
on these important issues about scriptural authority:

Clayton, you have three choices: Are you 1) going to sweep these under
the rug, 2) admit you're wrong, or 3) argue further?

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Article: 15736 of ca.politics
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:46:58 GMT

In article <12028@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

BK:
># Boswell makes arguments that the early Church viewed itself as a liberation
># from the Holy Codes of Law in the OT. Why else would Paul try to crack down

CC #1:
>Indeed.  Does that mean that all rules were abolished?  No.

then, inexplicably, CC #2:
>As we have discussed, the New Testament wiped out the Holiness Code.

Which side are you taking, Clayton??
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
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Article: 15674 of ca.politics
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:07:49 GMT

In article <94915@bu.edu> I (kane@buast7.bu.edu--Hot Young Star) wrote:

[stuff about Biblical mistranslations and how they have been used against
homosexuality]

Two subjects:

1. 1 Corinthians and Timothy use "arsenokoitai" and "malakoi". Romans
uses "para physin".

   I implied that not even the historical scholars like Boswell were
sure how to interpret "arsenokoitai" and "malakoi", merely suggesting
that they most likely did not denote homosexuality in particular. Well,
it turns out that Boswell DID argue convincingly that "arsenokoitai"
meant "active male (temple) prostitutes", and by juxtaposition "malakoi"
meant "passive ("effeminate") male (temple) prostitutes".

   There is good evidence to support this: temple prostitution was common
around the Mediterranean (actually it was more widespread than this, forming
an integral part of the Hindu religion); the Koine Greek stem for male had
two forms, "arsen-" used as an adjectival modifier (as in "arsenokoitai")
and "arren-" used as an object ("arrenokoitai"---those who have active
intercourse with men---is not documented in Koine Greek); the common Koine
Greek word "malakos" meant "soft", and there is evidence that it was used
figuratively to mock men who appeared effeminate, in female dress. Since
by and large those men who appeared in female dress were also (temple)
prostitutes, "malakoi" came to have the double meaning of "effeminate and
loose (soft) in morals".

   "Para physin" (as it appears in Romans "against nature") is a bit
harder to explain. One has to note two important things. First that the
concept of natural law did not exist as we know it at the time of Paul.
The word "physin" was almost always used to indicate "personal nature",
"disposition". Second, one has to carefully note the context of the Romans
passage. Paul uses this as a rhetorical and fleeting example in the middle
of a much bigger discourse on idolatry, promiscuity, and those people who
seemingly get caught up in these ritual acts against their natures---
"para physin". Ritual homosexual orgies of the time seemed to draw in
even those who were not inclined to participate in normal circumstances.
Call it peer pressure if you will. The point is that Paul was apparently
decrying the promiscuity and idolatry that tempted men to go against their
own nature.

2. Clayton, this comment is directed toward you in particular.

Why is it that so many people who utterly reject the authority of the
government, instead hold dearly to Scriptural authority?

Jefferson, who as we both know advocated small government as his
Democratic Party was getting off the ground, clearly rejected the
absolute nature of Scriptural authority, instead calling on the
gift of reason to sort out what is right and what is wrong with
authority.

What makes you so different from Jefferson in this matter?

For that matter, what about the passage in which Paul says that
governmental authority is set up by God (sorry I can't remember the
exact reference---it was used to justify "Le droit divin" and absolute
monarchy and all that rot)? If you accept absolute scriptural
authority, must you not also accept the part where Paul decrees that
governments are blessed by God?

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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