HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: The Pennylvania State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:51:41 EST
From: Ernie Oporto <EAO102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Lucas the literary genius?

In article <~o#@byu.edu>, julie@alaska.et.byu.edu (Julie Gritton) says:
>
>I'm sorry, but George Lucas is not a Tolstoy or a Dostoevsky or a
>Kafka, and he can't even begin to hold a candle to Dickens.  Don't get
>me wrong, I love SW just as much as the next person, probably more,
>but that doesn't make it literature.  Yes, it can teach us some

You are confusing Classic Literature, with the more general term
Literature.  Anything you read is literature, even junk mail from
companies.

---
------------------- please place wrist on line and cut here -------------
  _____)           ______        _)       _)  EAO102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
                               __       __    OPORTO@CORVETTE.ECE.PSU.EDU
______    ______            ___      ___      Ernie "SHOKK" Oporto
                               __       __    Computer Lab Attendant
(_______ _      _ ________ _     _) _     _)  for PSU's CAC Department
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis)
Subject: Another error?
Organization: Fort Worth Research and Development Center, Motorola, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 08:25:47 GMT

I watched ANH over the holidays and I saw another error (in addition
to C-3PO saying he is "not good at telling storys.  Well, not good
at making them interesting, anyway."

My new one is easy.  In ANH, when Darth is fighting Ben with light-sabers,
Darth's light-saber is red.  As Luke looks at the fight and yells "Ben", Darth's
light-saber is still red.  Darth kills Ben.  Everyone starts blasting shots.
For some reason, the doors close to the area where Darth and Ben were fighting,
trapping Darth behind the doors.  In this scene, as the doors close, Darth's light-
saber is green (like Bens was).  I think this is a major error.

Now realize that I am pointing these, what I call errors, out because I think it is
interesting.  I have never watched any movie as many times as SW and so I notice
them in this movie more than others.  It does not take away from my enjoyment
of the movies but maybe noticing these errors gives insight into the art of making
movies.

Are there other obvious script errors in the SW movies?

-Brian
From: kfr@pro-freedom.cts.com (Kurt Roithinger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs ST:TNG(Post-Roddenberry)
Date: 25 Dec 92 14:35:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Dec25.073503.4998
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

In <1h5j7lINNg3d@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> lyon@egr.msu.edu (Scott Lyon) writes:

>Before I start, to all who plan to flame me for this post, PLEASE DON'T!
>Special note: This is intended to be humorous. Whether it is or not is up to
>you... Now that thats out of the way...
>
>
>Bear in mind that I am (gasp!) both a Star Trek (including TNG) fan and a Star
>Wars fan... However(as may be obvious after reading this), I am much more of a
>fan of Star Wars rather than ST:TNG. But, being fans of both, I've noticed some
>interesting parallels this season on TNG, and was wondering if anyone else
>picked up on them:
>
>
>In the TNG episode "Relics" (The one where Scotty returned), when the
>Enterprise was being pulled into the sphere, who else was expecting Wesley
>Crusher to suddenly be on the bridge and remark "Why are we still moving
>towards it?!"
>
>In the same episode, when the Enterprise finally escapes the sphere, who else
>recognized Han Solo's "Bank" manuever?
>
>In the TNG episode "Chain of Command I", how many people were waiting for the
>Ferengi to say "So you're looking for passage to the Alderaan system?"
>
>In the same episode, didn't that bar remind anyone of the cantina at Mos
>Eisley?
>
>Has anyone noticed the similiarity between the skin color of the Borg from TNG
>and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader(unmasked)?
>
>
>Well, thats all I've found so far... I have noticed (coincidence?) that most of
>these (if not all) are post-Roddenberry, meaning the TNG episodes were
>written/produced/created AFTER the death of Gene Roddenberry. Do you suppose
>the writers, since his passing, are letting their Star Wars influences show
>through a little more?
>
>-Scott Lyon

i watched "chain of command 1" with a couple of friends last saturday.
just offhand i noticed a couple of items which i thought to be cleverly
disguised tip of the ol' hat to star wars. but i for the life of me can't
seem to remember them.

hey, david...how is your short term memory this week?


ProLine:  kfr@pro-freedom
Internet: kfr@pro-freedom.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-freedom!kfr
==============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: craig@odie.cs.mun.ca (Craig Coffin)
Subject: Re: Meaningless dialogue
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 08:10:33 GMT

>>Meaningless dialogue
>>ANH C-3PO  "...the dammage doesn't look as bad from out
>>             here."
>> Can anyone explain the significance of this useless statement???

>That part used to bug me, but the 2nd or 3rd time I watched ANH I concluded
>it was poor C-3P0 mistaking the empire's ship for the one he'd just left.
>(since the bad guys' ship had swallowed up the good guys' ship). Hence, it
>was meant to be funny. Ha ha.


This was the assumption I made as well, however the purpose of this line
is not solely for humor, but also to show how uninformed Threepio is about
the Rebellion.  This is further supported by Threepio's later lines:

   LUKE:  Have you been in many battles?
   3PO:   Several, I think.  Actually, I'm not much more than an
          interpreter...

...and:

   LUKE:  Who is she?  She's beautiful...
   3PO:   I'm not quite sure.  I beleive she was a passenger on our
          last voyage... A person of some importance I beleive.

   This theme of "Threepio-not-knowing-what-the-hell-is-going-on" occurs
many, many times throughout the trilogy.

-- 

Craig Coffin          |  "Try not.  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
craig@odie.cs.mun.ca  |       -- Yoda, TESB

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: larocqu@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (JOHN LAROCQUE)
Subject: Re: Star Wars New Movie
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 04:29:28 GMT

In article <A15090@HB.maus.de> Joachim_Hoss@k.maus.de (Joachim Hoss) writes:
>Hi!
>
>A few months ago (In july, I think) there was an ad in a magazine in Berlin,
>Germany. It was from Fox Germany and they were lokking for: "...extras for the
>Film STAR WARS: The Fall Of The Republic." I don't know wether it was some kind
>of Hoax or not.
>
>Joachim Hoss
>Cologne, Germany
>Joachim_Hoss@k.maus.de

-- 
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**
**  John LaRocque         **   "If you're the new messiah.. I'm going to be  **
**  marshall.law@uwo.ca   **   the one to drive in the nails"  MARSHALL LAW  **
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: Splinter of a Mind's Eye
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:46:57 GMT

Gregory A. Martin (g-martin1@uiuc.edu) wrote:

: Dissenting opinion: This is actually a pretty cool book. I read it when it
: was first released in 1978, and at the time it was just awesome. 

Yeah, I guess if SW was it and you wanted more, that would color your
interpretation of it quite a bit! :)

: Zahn's tone
: far too wordy and calculating to be exciting.

He's very detailed, though. :^)

: Advice: By all means read Splinter of the Mind's Eye. 

Yeah, definitely read it. SW fans should read *everything* that is 
available. If nothing else it will pass the time until another Zahn
book comes out in paperback. In fact, SW may be completely 
forgotten by then!

: Remember, Luke is immature and brash, and Leia is single-minded and
: haughty. With this in mind, it is a cool story.

Overstereotyped characters ;) Some greay areas are nice occasionally --
that's why Han is such an amazing character -- what he says and does
don't really match all that much.

: Comment about the fingerprints is definitely true! (and damn annoying)

Bag 'em and forget them... or wear latex gloves... :)

Scott
From: wiml@stein.u.washington.edu (William Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: 3 Jan 1993 00:12:18 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1992Dec31.203947.15228@nic.funet.fi> tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes:
>Then, the thing people often title as error in TESB... I mean the way
>how Han's shirt varies when he is about to go cold. Han probably
>understood he will be there for a long time and he wanted to wear
>something comfortable. Or, he might have wanted look good because he
>guessed he'll be hanged to Jabba's wall.

  Actually, I'm pretty sure that Han's shirt is just an advanced,
futuristic sort of hypercolor(tm). Its four-dimensional structure
allows it to change color and form *before* the temperature changes.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen)
Subject: Re: Another error?
Organization: Finnish University and Research Network (FUNET)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 00:14:19 GMT

In <30DEC92142927@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu> dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper) writes:

>In article <1992Dec30.105457.20662@nic.funet.fi>, tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes...
>>- C3PO's silver leg

>No reason to assume that's an error, especially since it's consistent
>throughout the three movies.

Oh, of course it is not an error. I meant to put '(this is not an
actual error but one interesting thing)' there, but it seems that I
forgot to do that. Sorry.

>>- Stormtrooper's head hits the door in ANH (the scene where C3PO and
>>R2D2 are 'trapped' in that closet)

>This is one of those things that everyone points to as a blooper in Star
>Wars.  Think about it: it's not.  Why COULDN'T a Stormtrooper hit his head
>on barging into a room?  It's an error on the STORMTROOPER'S part, but a
>blooper is something that's logically inconsistent within the movie.  This
>doesn't qualify.

1. Maybe this doesn't qualify. I don't think that it is a blooper in Star
Wars. However, I don't think that it was there on purpose - it just
looks like a pure accident. No, it is not an error, I admit. But it is
one interesting thing in Star Wars, one of the things which makes
watching Star Wars interesting for 2785 times or more.

2. I borrowed my Star Wars movies a couple of days ago to my friend... I
can't check this out but I _think_ it was this way:

Chewie, very tall wookie, walks through the doorway and doesn't lower his
head. Then, some time later, stormtrooper walks through the same
doorway and hits his head on the top of it. Either that stormtrooper
is incredibly tall, taller than Chewie, or this is an error. OR, I
don't remember the scene correctly, and Chewie & stormtroopers use
different doors.

-- 
Tapio Keihanen - tapio@nic.funet.fi \ / "Never look back, never turn!"
                - k135528@cc.tut.fi / \        -Ronnie James Dio, 1981
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: darkstar@ravel.udel.edu (Jerry Garcia)
Subject: Re: Luke and Leia confusion
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Summary: Good One
Keywords: i am continental, i am the main thing...
Organization: The Green Circle Of Vengence
Distribution: a galaxy far, far away
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:48:40 GMT

In article <29DEC92163204@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu> dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu writes:
>In article <C0193w.Iut@news.udel.edu>, darkstar@ravel.udel.edu (Jerry Garcia) writes...
>>Ben might have wanted
>>to train Luke because he wasn't as well hidden as Leia.  Also, Luke may
>>have expressed more of an affiliation to the Force at that time.  And we
>>are missing the argument that Kenobi may have been acting patriachical!
>
>Or perhaps it was simpler: Kenobi never MET Leia....
>
>--Gallandro
>
>    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"

Hey good one, I never even thought of that!


	--Jerry




-- 

Jerry Alexandratos           | "True greatness is a not a measure of
darkstar@freezer.cns.udel.edu|  how large one's intelligence is, but
darkstar@bach.udel.edu       |  rather how little one's ignorance is."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: Ray.Chramega <Ray.Chramega@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Star Wars Toys in Poltergiest... Was Re: Star Wars toys in E.T.
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:35:01 GMT


   As the subject of this message relates... There were a bunch of Star Wars
toys in the boys room! not to mention that he also had the Sarlacc Pit in
his closet!

   Caroooooooool Annnnnnnnnn! <over silhouette of boy's head w/ buck teeth>
-- 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Email: chramega@mixcom.COM or mmwwmm@mixcom.COM
From: np2@doc.ic.ac.uk (Nathaniel Pryce)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: RPG - "Haste"-question
Date: 31 Dec 1992 17:30:08 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak2.doc.ic.ac.uk


In article <1992Dec27.215232.12343@ifi.unizh.ch>, knecht@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (knecht roland) writes:
|> 
|> Hi there!
|> 
|> I have one question about the haste rules in the SWRPG Rules Companion and
|> the multiple action penalty.
|> Maybe it's just because I'm swiss and english is a foreign language to me
|> (as you will notice :-)   ).
|> 
|> 
|> In combat a player declares an action (a shot)
|> and a "haste". That will be two actions (Penalty 1D)... right?

Yes.

|> If the player declares an action and double haste, will that be two
|> actions ("action" and "double haste" - Penalty 1D) or three actions
|> ("action" + "haste"+ "haste" - Penalty 2D)?

It counts as three actions - an action and two hastes - so has a penalty
of 2D

|> If it is only two actions - what keeps the player from declaring "one
|> billion haste" to surely be the first one who acts?

See above!

|> The player declares two actions (2 shots) and a "haste". Does the
|> haste-action affect both shots or just one of them? Does every "normal"
|> action need a separate "haste-action"?

Each action must be 'hasted'. You don't declare 'haste' on its own, but
'hasted actions'. Eg: If I want to shoot twice in haste, I would need to
declare two 'hasted shoot' actions. This would count as four actions, so 
giving me a penalty of 3D.

|> The player declares three actions (shots). The first shall be with
|> tripple-haste, the second with double-haste and the last with normal
|> haste. Would that be 6 haste-actions (3+2+1) or 3 (tripple-haste) or just
|> one (one "tripple-haste-action")?
|> 


One triple-haste shot: counts as 4 actions   +
one double-haste shot: counts as 3 actions   +
one single-haste shot: counts as 2 actions.

total:                           9 actions

so this gives a penalty of 8D.


|> Hope somebody knows the answers ;-)
|> 
|> 
|> Greetings!
|> 
|> Roland Knecht
|> 

I hope this helps. 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ///                     Nat Pryce (np2@doc.ic.ac.uk)                  
 ( oo  It is essential to dig the most for if you do not dig you lose your
 |\_|  superiority over the square and so are less likely to be cool - Kerouac
From: pimmel@eagles.cs.wisc.edu (David Pimmel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Lucas the literary genius?
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:26:07 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <7o#@byu.edu> julie@bones.et.byu.edu writes:
>If people would read Julie's posts more closely, people might stop
>repeating what Julie said.  I distinctly recall saying that the best
>definition of a classic it whether it stands the test of time, and SW
>has not done that yet.  And I don't know about your university, but
>the film classes in my university teach about SW, mainly when they're
>dealing with special effects.  So to that person who said I was
>overawed by academia...if that was the case I would be overawed by SW
>too, right?  I have been a SW fan for years, I have read all the books
>and two of the scripts, I have seen the movies zillions of times and
>read the Han Solo series, the Lando series, etc.  There is nothing in
>SW to even come close to what I get from Shakespeare, whether or not
>Joe Average would agree.  Shakespeare has a timeless genius that
>speaks to every generation.  I have yet to see SW do that.  I know the
>kids in my classes (third grade and up) have no concept of Star Wars
>and would much rather see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.  So far, I
>don't see Star Wars spanning the generations.  When I was their age, I
>was a big Luke fan.  And don't tell me they have to be older to
>appreciate SW.  I think most of us here discovered it when we were
>their age.  They are simply not interested, as much as that may blow
>our minds, and we need to accept that.  I just don't feel the need to
>call SW a literary classic in order to assuage my feelings of
>worthlessness because I like it, the way some of you seem to.
>
>"You could use a good kiss!"		JULIE


	I have to disagree with you on children today not being interested in
Star Wars.  It is not a fact of being uninterested as of being unexposed.  We
grew up in the era of Star Wars figures, lunchboxes, trading cards, etc, etc.
The kids today have the same exposure to TMNT, GI Joe, and Batman.  My brother
showed videos of the Star Wars trilogy to his 8-year old future stepson and the
kid went bonkers for Star Wars.  I agree Star Wars is no Shakeseare, in fact,
my most recent viewing found me laughing at parts of the film for poor acting
and incredibly cheesy material.  But  the average 8 year old won't see that.
They see the action, adventure and drama of the battle of good versus evil.  
So Star Wars classic status is still not determined, but it is still a great
story and will continue to grab people who watch it.  Don't think Luke has 
completely been beaten by a group of mutant, karate kicking ampihibians.

-- 

David Pimmel                    
pimmel@cs.wisc.edu
From: uscream@mcl.ucsb.edu (Screamin' Diane d.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Luke and Leia confusion
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:36:31 GMT

It seems to me that after watching the three SW films recently that Luke
and Leia were not intended to be brother and sister.  It just doesn't
fit with the looks that they gave each other in ANH and the competition
between Han and Luke.  It seems to me that Lucas may have changed his mind
back and forth about it and decided that he had to come up with some
reason why she chose Han and not Luke.  (Other than the fact that Han
does turn out to be quite a boyfriend/husband who really cares deeply
for her.  I mean, they could have developed Luke's character differently 
as well.  It could have easily come to pass that Han actually did leave
and in Empire it did seem that he was taking that route.  who really
knows.  I think that at the bottom of it all, I am a hopeless romantic
who thinks Luke deserved to find an awesome woman in the midst of
all the adventure.  You know, all that set up of SW being the story 
about a boy, a girl and a universe...  *sigh*

By the way, there was a certain l;ogic to the idea.  Just watch the way
Luke and Leia interact and see for yourself what you think.  I mean, if Luke 
somehow always knew that she was his sister, why was he drooling over her??
It just doesn't fit.

when you are frustrated,

		uscream@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu
From: Trebor
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Favorite SW Moments
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:15:23 GMT
Organization: Middle Kingdom
NNTP-Posting-Host: cc210-2.cl.msu.edu

The trench battle in SW. When SW first came out I was 10 and I was into WWII
fighters in a big way. The trench battle was the ultimate in WWII dogfights (It
was based on WWII movies) and it just blew me away. Now that I'm older I can
appreciate more of the truly magnificant shots that Lucas put into the film
(especially the subtle touches that you tend not to notice when you're ten),
but for pure heart stopping addrenelin nothing can beat the original trench
battle. The Death Star battle in ROTJ had more stuff flying around, but to me
was just a rehash of the first movie. I'd seen it before and therefore I't
wasn't as exciting. It also has one of my favorite lines.  "stay on target,
stay on tar...ARRGH!" That became a favorite phrase to use whenever someone I
know did something.   
	Actually, I'd have to say that my favorites parts of SW are those that take
place between the main title crawl and the closing credits.

Rob
>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: roy@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:38:22 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1992Dec29.082547.19859@schbbs.mot.com> bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis) writes:
>I watched ANH over the holidays and I saw another error (in addition
>to C-3PO saying he is "not good at telling storys.  Well, not good
>at making them interesting, anyway."
>
>My new one is easy.  In ANH, when Darth is fighting Ben with light-sabers,
>Darth's light-saber is red.  As Luke looks at the fight and yells "Ben", Darth's
>light-saber is still red.  Darth kills Ben.  Everyone starts blasting shots.
>For some reason, the doors close to the area where Darth and Ben were fighting,
>trapping Darth behind the doors.  In this scene, as the doors close, Darth's light-
>saber is green (like Bens was).  I think this is a major error.
>
>Now realize that I am pointing these, what I call errors, out because I think it is
>interesting.  I have never watched any movie as many times as SW and so I notice
>them in this movie more than others.  It does not take away from my enjoyment
>of the movies but maybe noticing these errors gives insight into the art of making
>movies.
>
>Are there other obvious script errors in the SW movies?
>
>-Brian
>

As for Darth's lightsaber, this is further proof of a previous, long-lasting,
unresolved thread.  Some stated that the non-glowing blade of Ben's saber
near the end of one of the duel scene segments (when Ben is backing up,
and parrying (sp?) and Darth is taunting him, just before cutting to a
different scene) is an indication that Ben was weak in the Force, and it
is the Force that powers the lightsaber (or helps to power it).

When I watched the LBX version of ANH, I noticed the same scene you did.
However, Vader's saber blade had no color.  It was pale-white.  You
stated green like Ben's, well, Ben's should have been blue, almost a
light cyan.  Anyway.  The colors may vary from one set to another (slightly)
but my point is, is that Vader's saber in that shot did not have any
spfx 'glow' to it and little or no color.

Take a look at the scene.  It is right after Vader kills Ben (?), Luke
yells 'Ben!', Solo yells 'Blast the door, kid', and Luke shoots the control
mechanism for the door.  Notice Vader's saber as the doors are closing,
you will see what we mean.

Spfx goof, or does this mean that Vader lost his Force power too?  Maybe
Ben sucked it away from him when he made the leap to the next world - NOT!

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
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