HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: Companies trading near book value
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:51:07 GMT

In article <l8l3u2INNpnm@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> leons@hiroller.Eng.Sun.COM () writes:
>Is it possible (or even normal) for a company to trade below the
>book value?  It seems to me that the answer is no, since in this
>case it will be profitable for someone with lots of money to buy
>the company and just sell its assets. . . .

Peter Lynch, who I guess qualifies as an expert :-) discusses this in his
book, _One_Up_On_Wall_Street_. He said book value can be misleading, because
assets can be valuated many different ways. Lynch offers the example of
the Pennsylvania Railroad while it had one foot in the grave and the other
on a banana peel. Their assets on their balance sheet contained many things
that simply weren't worth much at all, or anything, or even less than
nothing, like old rolling stock that had almost no scrap value but cost
something to keep.

Book value only tells part of the story -- and it wasn't a part Lynch seemed
much interested in.

BTW, I thought it was a great book, because he described his failures
together with his successes. Does Charles Givens do that? Wait -- forget
I asked that!!! :-)
From: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Bonds: How long is "long-term"?
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:16:47 GMT
Reply-To: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Organization: Intel-Corp,_Hillsboro,_Oregon

In article <ASHWIN.92Aug21125908@leo.gatech.edu>, ashwin@gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes:
|> The accepted wisdom on misc.invest at present seems to be not to buy
|> long-term bonds because when interest rates rise (as they probably will), the
|> value of these bonds will drop.  My question is, how long is "long-term"?

In bond market jargon, the accepted definition of long-term is over 10 years.
(the "long" bond is the 30-years governmentt bond).
2 to 10 years is medium term, and below 2 years is short term.
Your mileage may vary...

-- 
..CHEDLEY..
..!{uunet|tektronix|ogicse}!littlei!chedley    chedley@carthago.intel.com     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Disclaim: The above statements and opinions are strictly mine,
and do not represent any company or organization's position.
......................................................................
From: mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Arbitrage
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:25:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug20.103030.3474@wvnvms.wvn:-130550026:cdp:1426500246:000:783
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Aug 20 20:25:00 1992


|I have read about arbitrage. I understand it is only
|for big money. How big chunk of cash is needed to do
|it? Is it realistic for a individual investor to do
|arbitrage on options, warrents, perfered stocks etc.
|(excluding high risk ones such as "take over")?
|Thanks in advance, Bo Wang

By its very nature, riskless arbitrage provides a very small percentage
gain on the transaction, unless you luck into an overlooked situation.
So in small deals, the cost tends to eat the profit.  If you're willing
to take a risk, such as in time arbitrage on a takeover, profits can
increase.  But these days there are few free lunches.  DMcKenzie

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: whg@INEL.GOV (William H. Gray)
Subject: Re: Mutual Fund Investing - Schabacker Newsletter
Reply-To: whg@INEL.GOV (William H. Gray)
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Lab
Distribution: misc.invest
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:13:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.023424.11594@attain.icd.teradyne.com>,
 mark@attain.icd.teradyne.com (Mark Guidotti) writes:
|> Recently, I received a promotional brochure titled, "The Mutual Fund
|> Investor Report."  This is published by Jay Schabacker.  The material
|> claims to accurately predict which mutual funds consistently offer safe, 
|> high yields, all for an amazing $149 a year. ...

Someone asked [Mark?] Hulbert about this on last week's "Sound Money" program on NPR.
As best I remember his answer,  he said Schabacker did not quite beat,  or maybe barely
beat,  "the market".  Your library may get the _Hulbert Financial Digest_;  it rates
most of the advisories,  but is not an advisory itself.

IMHO, most of the advisories'  promotions are textbook examples of the propoganda 
technique known as "card stacking."
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Re: How do I get rid of broker????
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:14:40 GMT

In article <jaeastman-120892184355@jmac.msd.anl.gov> jaeastman@anl.gov (Jeff Eastman) writes:
>I'm curious if anyone can provide me with some good advice. A couple months
>ago I made
>the mistake of buying 100 shares of stock from a broker who called me and
>claimed to have
>been referred to me by another person where I work (he didn't mention a
>name).  The stock has
>done terribly.  I realized afterwords that I was very stupid to deal with a
>total stranger, but
>the problem I have now is I don't know how to get rid of him.  He reminds
>me of a stray cat that
>keeps coming back for more if you make the mistake of feeding him once.  He
>calls me at work
>and at home, always with some great new deal.  The second time he called I
>told him I wasn't
>interested in buying anything else from him (the stock he was pushing that
>day hit a 52 week
>low today I noticed).  He wanted me to buy $20k worth of stock and told me
>the only way our
>phone conversation would end would be for me to agree to buy or I would
>have to hang up. Of
>course I hung up.  Then he called back 3 more times and continued the
>conversation as if there
>had been no interuption.  He has called me on three other occasions and I
>have told him point
>blank that I will never deal with him again, but that doesn't phase him at
>all.  He has also
>called several other people I work with (he is obviously going through our
>directory in the 
>mistaken assumption that scientists have money) and one of them also made
>the mistake of
>buying from him.  One guy asked him to provide a resume or some kind of
>credentials and was
>told that a secretary would get back to him with this info (but of course
>nobody ever did). 
>Another guy told him that he was only a student and the broker immediately
>hung up on him
>(I don't think he will believe me and go away if I use this excuse now
>though).  I am just 
>wondering if there is some kind of regulatory agency I can report this guy
>to?  Is he actually
>breaking any rules in calling me over and over?  He called today and let my
>phone ring 5 minutes
>after I hung up on him.
>
>_______________
>Jeff Eastman
>jaeastman@anl.gov
>_______________


I heard of a great technique for pesky sales people who keep calling on the
phone.  Simply say, "Just a minute."  Put the receiver on the table beside
the phone (don't hang up) and then just go about your business.  Do that to
him a couple of times, and I don't think he'll keep bugging you.
   
 Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall

		"Creativity overcomes violence."
				John Bradshaw on "Homecoming"
From: kunda@hanuman.Eng.Sun.COM (Ramachandra P. Kunda)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Japan funds
Date: 14 Aug 1992 22:57:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: kunda@hanuman.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: hanuman


I would like to get a list of no-load mutual funds that invest in Japanese
stock market.  Any help is appreciated.

ram
From: hanrahan@sequent.com (Tom Hanrahan)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Bond Questions
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:59:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug13.215944.17401
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

I read an article in my local paper this morning about yesterday's
10-year note auction.  It raised several questions for me.  Here's a
quote from the article to start with:

	"The notes will carry a coupon interest rate of 6 3/8
	 with each $10,000 in face value selling for $9,916.30."

Questions:

	1)  I know that the bids received for the auction determine 
	    the coupon interest rate and discount selling price, 
	    but how exactly are these values calculated?

	2)  What is the maximum a 10-year, $10,000 note can be
	    discounted?  (My guess is the interest paid for
	    1/32 on $10,000 over 10 years minus one cent. Otherwise
	    the coupon rate would move to 6 13/32?)

	2)  I know when you submit a bid you have two choices, a 
	    competitive bid and a non-competitive bid.  With the 
	    competitive bid you can specify the discount price you
	    want.  Can you specify a coupon rate instead?  How does
	    someone go about determining what discount or rate to
	    offer? 

Another quote:

	"A total of $11 billion in notes sold out of bids totaling
	 $25.2 billion."

Questions:

	3)  It seems like a lot of bidders did not get notes in the
	    auction. Is this correct?  Would this auction be
	    considered, 'well received' as they say?

	4)  Did all of the non-competitive bids get accepted first?

	5)  What would be a typical ratio of
	    non-competitive/competitive bids at such an auction?

There seems to be a lot under the old saw "when rates go up bonds go
down, and when rates go down bonds go up."

-- 
Tom Hanrahan	           	
hanrahan@sequent.com
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Telephone Switch Newsletter?
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:17:53 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

From what I understand Dick Fabian's newsletter is on the ball

Anybody here of Mark Skousen's newsletter? They are constantly 
advertising it/

Regards
Neil Schier
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: wiener@puhep1.princeton.edu (Jim Wiener)
Subject: Re: Warrants vs. Call Options
Organization: Physics Dept., Princeton University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:42:23 GMT

A warrant is a call option issued by a company on its own stock. Call options
on stocks, and warrants differ in that when a call option is exercised, 
the writer of the option supplies the holder with stock that has already
been issued by the company.  When warrants are exercised, the company issues
new treasury stock in return for the exercise price specified in the contract.

         -Jim Wiener
          Dept. of Physics
          Princeton University
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cs6@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Eric Sit 3611)
Subject: Re: What happened to STORAGE TECH.???
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:23:48 GMT

In article <14009@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> mparsons@fleming.iaims.bcm.tmc.edu (Mark Parsons) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug11.172102.3084@tellab5.tellabs.com>, jstein@tellabs.com (Jeff Steinhauer) writes:
>|> Does anyone know what happened to Storage Technology? The stock
>|> plummeted $6 or so yesterday, wasn't this company suppose to come
>|> out with something to skyrocket their earnings?
>
>If these are the guys that were coming out with the 'Iceberg'(?)
>storage device . . . . they just announced yesterday(or was it
>Friday?) that the delivery of the device wouldn't take place until
>at least first quarter 93.
>
>This is the 2nd or 3rd time they've pulled back on the release
>date.
>
>Mark
>-- 
>Mark A. Parsons
>mparsons@bcm.tmc.edu

Mark is right.  Storage Tech's new product is called "Iceberg"
which was very well received when it was announced.  Storage Tech's
stock surged after the announcement.


Eric
From: un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Broker and price
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:51:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

> Also, I purchased two issues and got a better price
> on both [1/8 on one and 1/4 on the other] than I specified.  The trade
> was confirmed while I was on the phone as well.
>

What should this have to do with which broker you use? I thought that
you get a higher price if buying pressure is greater than selling
pressure and otherwise you get a lower price. Am I missing some here?

Bo Wang.
From: ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Whatever happened to stock-info@dorfjr.ingr.COM ?
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:37:43 GMT
Organization: LAAS-CNRS France

The subject says it all!  Has he gone off the net?  Is this in the
FAQ?

Thanks,

--
Ralph P. Sobek			  Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
Ralph.Sobek@laas.fr			   Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.fr						If all else fails, try:
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph	      sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Telephone: (+33-)61-33-62-66  FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
4D Confer.  Use it to organize and manage your next Conference.
--
Ralph P. Sobek			  Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
Ralph.Sobek@laas.fr			   Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.fr						If all else fails, try:
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph	      sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Telephone: (+33-)61-33-62-66  FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
Let's hear it for justice, California style!  Bravo, guys!  SNAFU!
From: un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Stop orders?
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:40:54 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Hi:

In the book "The Stock Market, 5th edition" by Teweles and
Bradley (1987), it points out:

 "Specialists in Amex may not accept stop orders for
round-lot transactions."

I haven't had any problems so far asking my broker to place
stop orders. Is it because I happen to have the stocks in which
stop orders are accepted or it is because my broker maintained
the stop orders I placed? Could anyone explain?

	Thanks in advance, Bo Wang
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: el9294@adx.adelphi.edu (Ed Longstorm)
Subject: Mutual funds / Utilities
Summary: Mutual funds / Utilities
Keywords: Mutual funds
Organization: Adelphi University
Distribution: :
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:20:13 GMT

I was wondering if anyone has information on a mutual fund(s) that
just invest in utilities?

THANKS!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Longstrom
el9294@adelphi.edu.adx


 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rais@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Abdur Rais)
Subject: Re: Is there a frequently-asked-questions list for this newsgroup?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:51:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.205745.3980@leland.Stanford.EDU> rsingh@goliath.Stanford.EDU (   raj) writes:
>
>Hello all,
>
>I searched through about 200 past articles, but didn't find any such
>list.   Is there such a list at all?  When is it posted? (1st of
>the month??)
>
>3% interest in savings account is a joke, and i am willing to
>put some small amount in govt bond/mutual fund, but KNOW NOTHING!
>(Likely amount: 2-3 thousand)
>
>Please email any suggestions, and PLEASE DON'T PULL MY LEG.
>There's always a first time :-)
>
>--raj

Likewise, I am also very interested to put some money in mutual
funds/etc, and I will appreciate advice on creating a personal
investment portfolio. I have recently obtained prospectus/application
forms from Fidelity, Vanguard, Scudders, Benham, Janus, Twentienth Century,
and Kaufman, and despite following some of the discussions in the net
recently, I still don't feel comfortable about making a final decision -
my overall knowledge in this area is very, very limited.  Thanks in advance.
Abdur
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: A bad experience with K. Aufhauser & Co.
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:32:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.134346.3435@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>guy on the phone said: "Mr. Wang, I am going to close your
>account here now". "Why?" I asked. "Because I don't like you."
>
>What did I do wrong to lose my account? Comments welcome.

Wrong?  Sounds to me like you got very lucky!
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mccrate@netcom.com (Joe McCrate)
Subject: Re: Wall Street Week recommendations
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:24:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

dyes@convex.com (Tim Dyes) writes:

>Perhaps you could perform the same analysis with 6 and 12 month time
>horizons.  WSW recommendations are not for short term traders.

Some are, some aren't.
From: jl@saint.csd.mot.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Purchase the used books you sell
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:26:37 GMT

Hello readers,
The following books I would like to buy are:

Author		Title				Latest Revised Year
--------------	-----------------------------	-------------------
Neill, Humphrey The Art of Contrary Thinking		1985
LeBon		The Crowds				1982
Mackay		Extraordinary Popular Delusions		1980
		And the Madness of Crowds

These books are soft paperbacks.  If you want to sell any or all
to me, please e-mail to me at jl@saint.ca41.csd.mot.com.
I want to read these classic books.  Currently their retail prices
are too expensive I could not afford to pay.
John
P.S.  I live in San Jose, California, and I would appreciate if you
could refer me to some possible used book stores.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Stock split???
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:13:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.095531.3447@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>I just got a letter from the company I hold stock saying:
>They are going to have a 3 to 2 split in form of 50% cash
>payment. What do they mean by 50% cash payment?

It would help if you could quote exactly the paragraph in the
letter.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: bradley@novell.com (Brad Soe)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: WANG stock
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:29:47 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia

>
>Wang indeed declared bankruptcy today.  Stock price doesn't go to zero just 
>because it declares bankruptcy.  If the company is liquidated, then the stock 
>price would go to zero.  After the company is liquidated, it no longer exists 
>as a business entity.
>
>When a company files for bankruptcy, it can take a long time (years) for it
>to go back to sound finanical health (i.e. assuming the company can avoid
>liquidation).  I once saw statistics on bankrupt companies.  If I recall
>correctly, those that eventually recovered spent an average of 18 months 
>under bankruptcy protection.
>
>You have pointed out that it is a gamble to buy Wang stocks now.  I am 
>suggesting that the risk is enormous: at best, you are looking at a long
>wait for the share to appreciate significantly.  On the other hand, it is 
>quite likely that Wang cannot successfully restructure itself and ends up 
>being liquidated.  If you are tempted by the often-quoted example of Chrysler, 
>you have to remember that the government played a critical role in its rescue.
>

Of course there is the scenerio where the companies debt is restructured 
so that the creditors become the owners and stockholders. In this case, 
the company stays alive and new stock is issued to the new owners.
There is an enormous risk for Current stockholders which would likely
loose their stock if this happens. Beware of this if you are tempted 
to invest in this stock. Don't say that no one warned you. Owners of a 
company are always have low priority when it comes to bankrupcy.

I don't know if this is another Chrysler, but Chrysler employed so many
people that it would have been detremental to the economy. 

Brad

Brad Soe
bradley@novell.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: A few Options Questions
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:51:44 GMT

In article <federkin.714158117@guppie19> federkin@rtsg.mot.com (John Federkins) writes:
>ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>My broker charges approx  $8.75 + 3.85 mailing fee = 12.60 to
>>write the XYZ Sep 30s trading at 3/8.
>
>>So I would get 100 * $0.375 = 37.50-12.60 = 24.10.
>
>Shouldn't that be 100 * $.375 = 37.50 + 12.60 = $50.10 ???


No.

If I had bought those options, then I would have paid $50.10, but if
I write them (write==sell) then the commission is deducted from what
I got on the sale.


>By the way, are commissions & fees stil $12.60 if you buy 1000?

The $3.85 mailing fee stays the same.  The commission goes from
$8.75 to approx. $45 or thereabouts.

Brokers commissions are very mysterious.  My broker will always
calculate it for a given trade if I ask, but claims there is no
published schedule; it's all in the computer.

I suppose if I pushed I could get something approaching a commission
schedule, but I am quite satisfied with the commissions, having
compared them with several other brokers -- including some of the
discount brokers.

These rates I quoted are from just one broker, and other brokers
will set their own rates.  In addition, I have a reasonably large
account and give the broker a good deal of trading activity, so I
get a better than standard commission.  Your mileage may vary.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Companies trading near book value
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:22:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

In article <l8l3u2INNpnm@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> leons@hiroller.Eng.Sun.COM () writes:
>Is it possible (or even normal) for a company to trade below the
>book value?  It seems to me that the answer is no, since in this
>case it will be profitable for someone with lots of money to buy
>the company and just sell its assets.
>

I don't think it is as simple as that, although it seems like good logic.
If the company is losing money the book value could be deteriorating
with time. Also there may be considerable legal obstacles in place to 
prevent a potential liquidator from coming in and selling off the
company.  Finally the "book value" may be somewhat inflated, based on
the company staying in business, etc (not what you would get at a
liquidation sale).  I'd like to hear more about how this number is 
determined.

Once a company trades below book, its ability to raise funds through
more stock is severely limited (i.e. it would be selling new shares
for less than the company is worth).  This could be good for bargain
hunters, but is terrible for keeping the company running.  Hence the
company is handcuffed from raising capital, and a spiral (downward)
could ensue.

I think Value Line has a screen for price/book and you'll see that 
some, even among those widely followed 1700, are trading below book.  
Some for good reason, others may be true bargains.

KB
------------------------------------
Keith Brewster
-disclaimers "I'm only a scientist"   "Only Donnie Duncan, AD, speaks for OU'
Newsgroups: misc.invest