HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Summary: logic
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:10:04 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Jul24.163223.10400@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.062039.5500@cco.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>
>>There's a big difference between not believing there is a god and believing
>>that there is no god.
>
>Well the predicate logic equations would be different, I can see that,
>but what is the practical difference? Seems the same to me.

"He who refuses to use logic is doomed to talk nonsense."

(With apologies to John McCarthy for using and paraphrasing his .sig without 
authorization :-) .)

-Margaret
mikulska@astro.princeton.edu
From: higgins@accel.aa.washington.edu (Andrew Higgins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: P.K. Dick in Hell (was Re: What happens to authors when they die)
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:47:29 GMT
Reply-To: higgins@accel.aa.washington.edu (Andrew Higgins)
Organization: U of Wash Dept of Aeronautics and Astronautics

In article <rauser.712208995@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
When I saw the  
|> "novel" Total Recall by Piers in the store I almost gagged. What could be
|> more insulting than a "novel" adapted from a screenplay which was based
|> on an original short story?

Recall that the book 2001 by A.C. Clarke is also a novel based on a screenplay based on an original short story.  The difference being, of course, Clarke had a hand in all three.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12926 rec.arts.sf.misc:2179 rec.humor:24384 alt.folklore.urban:19641 alt.religion.kibology:3181 alt.callahans:9748
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology,alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:33:31 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Jul23.212023.1246@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>I think people put too fine a point on this.   Agnostics proudly stand up
>and say that there is no way one can know for sure, but the fact is
>that the vast bulk of them do not believe there is a god, and thus
>in my book they are athiests, (literally non-theist.)

	Well, perhaps I'm unusual, but I put myself in the agnostic camp. I
say that at the moment the evidence I see would weigh more towards the 
conclusion that there is no "God", but any contrary evidence is welcome.
I see the difference between the two [in their MODERN, rather than their
older, definitions] as being similar to the difference between your average
American Catholic/Christian and a Fundamentalist.

	There's a story I like which points up the difference:

	An atheist and an agnostic are sitting on the shore of the Red Sea
when Moses comes booking out of Egypt, bringing the Hebrews with him
and pursued by all of Pharoah's men. 
	Both the spectators ask what's going on; when told, they look at the
mob of soldiers approaching and recommend either fast surrender or quick
swimming lessons.
	Moses just smiles and raises his arms.
	With a roar of a thousand cataracts, the Sea parts, while a great 
pillar of fire holds the shocked Egyptians at bay. The Hebrews follow Moses' 
gesture and run.
	The agnostic, eyes wide, looks at the water, looks at Moses, looks
back to the water.
	Then he drops to his knees, looking skyward, and says, "HALLELUJA,
I am SAVED! Brother, I BELIEVE!"

	The atheist, eyes wide, looks at the water, looks at Moses, looks
back to the water.
	Then he nods and smiles appreciatively. "Great trick. Mirrors,
right?"


	In other words, an agnostic is willing to read the evidence as
it appears; a TRUE atheist just WON'T believe, even if God Himself
were to come down and talk with him.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Little Men
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:05:39 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <22JUL199208582109@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo) writes:
>
>Anybody else dig out the dusty classics of their childhood lately? How 
>did it go?
>

	Here are ones I've read recently that I still enjoy quite a bit:
	The Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet by Eleanor Cameron
		(and the sequel, Stowaway... :) )
	Thornton W. Burgess animal stories (I was *shocked* to find
		there are none of these in the local library!)
	Hardy Boys (the original ones, not the recent garbage).
	Charlotte's Web
	The Hundred & One Dalmations
	Tom Sawyer

	Others I would suggest but have not reread are 
	Where the Red Fern Grows
	The Yearling
	Ol Yeller
	and I am definitely going to get a copy of _Lad, a Dog_ stat!

>Sherri
>

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: Isolation
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:59:15 GMT


Barbara Havlin writes:
>_No Exit_, Jean-Paul Sartre.  "L'enfer, c'est les autres," or something 
>like that.  Eternity is about as prolonged as you can get. 


Wonderful play.

I think it's importance for us humans to find balance
between isolation and being social.

Barclay

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12954 rec.arts.sf.misc:2192 rec.humor:24422 alt.folklore.urban:19682 alt.religion.kibology:3192
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:33:41 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

In article <1992Jul22.132513.29828@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
|> >>
|> >>NOT Isaac!  He's up there raising H*** with someone!
|> > 
|> > Ah, a-hem, that would be *down* there.
|> 
|> But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?


Yeah, Cleveland.  Although George Carlin says that he thinks you end up in
a coin-return slot in Philadelphia.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas |
|and live in Hell. - Philip Henry Sheridan         |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Request - Suggestions for Asian Poetry
From: lynx@surrey.amigans.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye)
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:57:31 GMT-12
Distribution: world
Organization: Prime Line, Wanganui, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul20.174240.23362@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
>
>The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
>Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
>And you, you are a thousand miles away,
>There are always two cups at my table.    - A T'ang Dynasty poem

  As part of an on-going interest in calligraphy, I've become interested in 
  Chinese and Japanese short poems. Can you suggest any books that ideally
  include poems brush lettered in the original ideograms along with an english
  translation?  An equally welcomed suggestion is books with just translated
  poems that can be used as part of lettering exercises.

  The local library here used to have neat little books of haiku - with the
  Japanese brush lettering on one page, english translation on the other.
  "Where are they now?"  "Well, er, no-one seemed very interested, so, er... "

--
           lynx@surrey.amigans.gen.nz    lynx@amigans.gen.nz
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Keywords: Party games?
Organization: Stanford University CSL
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:35:57 GMT

Rita Marie Rouvalis writes:
>
>	h.) whenever "Rand" appears in Subject: line.
>	m.) when Clayton crossposts from a .politics group
>

O all right, I was leaving out the truly distasteful features of
the group.  We must more recently add:

	n.) zeleny crossposts to six wildly unrelated groups
	    in a desperate attempt to obtain an audience

...but if we allow this sort of thing, we must instantly switch
to Darjeeling if anyone is to remain conscious.
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sayers/Marsh - 2 quick questions
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:20:52 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Jul28.033346.14720@bohra.cpg.oz.au> jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean) writes:

>1)  What is the title of the second Ngaio Marsh with Peregrine Jay in it?
>Not "Death at the Dolphin", but a second.  I think it revolves around a
>performance of Macbeth, but I could be deluding myself here.

_Light Thickens_. Yes, there's a rather more unlucky performance of
Macbeth than usual in there. There are a couple of coincidences that
alarm me and almost strain my credulity, but all the backstage stuff
is as lovingly and accurately detailed as ever. (Best backstage Marsh,
in my opinion, is _Night at the Vulcan_.)

_Death at the Dolphin_? Hmm. The US version is _Killer Dolphin_.


-- 
"[Fiction's] function is not to detail the actual world, but to create
a parallel one. Image by image, phrase by phrase, through artifice and
evocation it must then make that world at once credible and meaningful."
-- Robert Stone               ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pasupat@ecf.toronto.edu (Subbarayan Pasupathy)
Subject: Wanted Peter Cheyney Books List
Keywords: Peter Cheyney,Lemmy Caution,Slim Callaghan
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:22:53 GMT

Does anyone have a complete list of the books written by 
the author Peter Cheyney (creator of characters such as 
Lemmy Caution,private eye Slim Callaghan, creator of 'Dark
Series') ? If so, I would appreciate it if it can be 
e-mailed to me or posted .
Thanks in advance for any help.I would like to start
collecting his books.
S.Pasupathy
pasupat@ecf.toronto.edu
From: kmagel@plains.NoDak.edu (ken magel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts Vol. II
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:56:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19355
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo


Does anybody know where I can buy Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts Vol. II.  The first volume was published by Bell publishing Company and distributed by Crown publishing Company.  Book of Facts Volume II should at least date after 1982.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: Margaret Martin Gardiner <gardiner@lib.uwo.ca>
Subject: Medieval Travel
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:34:12 GMT
To: rec.arts.books@uwo.ca


	Thanks to all who gave recommendations for reading on medieval
travel.  I have put together the following list from r.a.b. posts and
emails at the request of a couple of people who would like to see the
complete list. 

_The Vinland Sagas_ (Norse discovery of NA) in Penguin
_Seven Viking Romances_ in Penguin
_The Witness and the Other World_ by Mary Campbell
_Wonders of the East <1001 ) 1497>_ Jordanus Catalani, Bp of Columbum,
fl 1330. Translated from Latin, 1839 by Henry Yule
_Egeria's Travels_
_The Travels of Sir John Mandeville_
_The Rediscovery of Sir John Mandeville_ by Josephine Bennett
_Marvellous Possessions_ by Stephen Greenblatt
_English Travellers to Italy_ by George Bruner Parks
_English Wayfaring Life in the Middle Ages_ Jean Jusserand
_Daily living in the twelfth century_ by Urban Tigner Holmes Jr.
_The Adventures of Ibn Battuta: a Muslim Traveler of the 14th Century_
by Ross E. Dunn (London: Croom Helm, 1986)
_The Travels of Marco Polo_ in Penguin
_Jewish Travellers in the Middle Ages_ edited by Elkan Nathan Adler
"Health problems of the medieval traveller" paper given by 
Margaret Wade Labarge at a recent conference
_Invisible Cities_ by Italo Calvino ("stories that Calvino imagines 
Polo would have told the great Khan about the cities in his realm")
_Sexing the Cherry_ and _Passion_ by Jeanette Winterson ("combination 
of Arabian Nights and historical novels")

	As I looked for copies of the above (still looking in some cases)
I found other titles that may be of interest:
_Jan van Linschoten: the Dutch Marco Polo_ (1563)1611) by Charles McKew Parr
_Medieval travellers: the rich and restless_ by Margaret Wade Labarge
_Jewish travellers in the twelfth century_ by Yosef Levanon

	There was one suggestion which I cannot find ) so far: "story 
of a medieval scholar named Alexander Neckham" ) the name of Alexander
Neckham might be in the title.

	In response to an email, I remembered a book I had on my list 
of must reads at some time:
_Prince Henry Sinclair: an expedition to the New World in 1398_ by 
Frederick J. Pohl (not the science fiction writer) NY: Clarkson Potter, 1974.

	The fictional account based on the above book is _Sword of the
North_ by Richard White (Ottawa, IL: Greenhills Publishers, 1983).

	And last but not least, thank you for those who tried
to help me remember the title of the book about "Nicholas Freer" the
Renaissance scholar who travelled from England to Italy to study. I 
hang my head in shame at my poor memory.  The book is _John Free: from
Bristol to Rome in the Fifteenth Century_ by RosamondT Joscelyne
Mitchell (London: Longmans, Green, [1955]. 

Margaret
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Mao II by Don DeLillo
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:11:34 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Mike Rogers writes:
If you think that's bad, you should try White Noise. great Book, pity nothing
happens.
>
Fiona  Webster writes:
I was so infatuated with _White_Noise_ when I  first read it, I gained
weight and had my hair frizzed, so that I'd more closely resemble the
character Babette.  It was my Babette phase.  :-)

							--Fiona

	Babette is a great character. I especially like the way her
husband talked to her - but that is what you do, you are Babette, and
this is what Babette does - or words to that effect.

	And the great joke of the novel, the one that places _White
Noise_ into the ranks of great campus novels: The  Department of
Hitler Studies. Great!

__Keith

--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13413 talk.religion.misc:13002 sci.skeptic:13376
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Bob Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:19:36 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <25032@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa3.lbl.gov writes:
>In article <11455@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes...
>Come on, now.  Ask the pope how old the Earth is.  What do you think he will
>say?  I have met plenty of fundamentalists who argue that the fossils were
>just put there by god to make the Earth look old...
>

  Err, I believe that the Vatican made the pronouncement some
  decades ago that the Big Bang theory was not thelogically unsound.
  As for the Pope's personal opinion, I have no idea.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"If I have to resurrect you, I'll resurrect you, whether you like it
or not!"
	 Paul to Jesus, _The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_

"For dying is not to be feared--it is the final comfort.  As we all
learn, eventually."

  --Robert Heinlein
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: What happens to authors when they die
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:06:43 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul26.052149.23173@umbc3.umbc.edu> cs106b16@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs106b16) writes:
>>There seems to be a lot of speculation about where Isaac Asimov ended up.
>>A number of people seem to be saying that since he was an atheist, he
>>won't go anywhere.
>
>Well those people are wrong. I don't know how strong his faith was, but he
>is <or rather was :-( > jewish...

Ah, we are in rec.arts.books, are we not?  Then:

Sometime in the late-middle sixties, there appeared a book, (I
hope I get the commas right, or the grammarians will crucify me)
written by a rabbi, entitled _I Don't Believe In God, But That
Has Nothing To Do With Being Jewish_.

My experiences in secondary religious education, which did not
use the aforementioned tome as a text, more or less corroborated
this sentiment.

While, no doubt Dr. A. could be considered many peoples'
spiritual advisor, he was not an ordained rabbi.



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13442 rec.arts.sf.misc:2281 rec.humor:24858 alt.folklore.urban:20105 alt.religion.kibology:3268
From: kyrie@coos.dartmouth.edu (Thomas S. Marlowe)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:10:11 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

kaehler@zk3.dec.com (Todd Kaehler UEG) writes:


>In article <1992Jul24.075717.104265@zeus.calpoly.edu>, rcasey@zeus.calpoly.edu (Rosalie J Casey) writes:
>>
>>	If you had a bet to take, either for a god and go to 
>>'eternal bliss', or that there is no god and take your chances...
>>
>>where would your money be?
>>------
>>no sig , to cheep
>>rcasey@iris.calpoly.edu
>>
>Hmm...  Maybe you are right, wouldn't hurt to take up a religion for
>a little "after life" insurance.  As good a reason as any.  Now, which
>religion is the best "after life" insurance policy.  So many to pick
>from...  Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Jewish...  Maybe all...

Very good point.  Now, the way I figure, being Catholic would be
best. (But, of course, I wouldn't recommend actually telling
peopel you are Catholic or doing any of the die-hard stuff
that
is just not necessary for salvation).

If you are Catholic and God does not exist, well, so what?
If You are Catholic and God is Hindu, then, according to Hindu
teaching, if you lived a good, loving life, you will have the
same rewards in your next life as a good Hindu.
If you are Catholic and God is Allah, and you lead a good
life, you will still go to the Afterlife and be rewarded
for a good life.
If you are Catholic and God is Jewish, you will get the same thing
as a devout Jew when you die.  Same afterlife for everyone.

HOWEVER!!!!  If you are NOT Catholic and God IS ...
boy are you up shit creek.  Do not pass go, go directly
to HELL!

So, there you have it.  Put your money on Catholicism
to win the biggest stakes and lose the least.

If nothing else, follow Jesus's teachings (doxology, not
church dogma), because the Jews I have talked to said
he was a good man who taught the things that pleases God
and a Bahabist friend of Mine said that Jesus was an
incarnation of Buddha.  A Hindu friend of mine
siad that Jesus' teachings were basically the same as
much Hindu literature.  Most Muslims I have talked to agree
that Jesus' teachings are the foundation for the bare 
minimum of what you do.

So, you can't go wrong.

Thomas S. Marlow
--
"Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice, and that when
they fail to do this they become dangerously structured dams that block
the flow of social progress." -  Martin Luther King, Jr
------------------>Thomas.S.Marlowe@Dartmouth.edu<-----------------------
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:03:30 GMT
Organization: Organization???

In article <712418969@macbeth.cs.duke.edu> kirk@cs.duke.edu (Scooter Corleone) writes:
>As a person who reads a lot, I find I have a large vocabulary of words 
>that I have only read; I've never spoken them or heard them. As a result, I
>know what the words mean, but I don't always know how to pronounce them.
 
I don't suppose you've considered consulting -- gasp, what a 
radical idea -- a dictionary?

>Here's an example: miasma. 
 
There are two accepted pronounciations; I'll not confuse the issue 
further by trying to figure out an adequate means of representing
them in ASCII.

>I was wondering if other readers had noticed this unspoken words phenomenon.

Every highly literate person I know has noticed this phenomenon.
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:19:00 GMT

Darin M. Powell writes...
>Vince Gibboni writes:
> 
>>spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>>> You didn't put _Gravity's Rainbow_ up there in bold letters, underlined and
>>> with little splats ("*") around it.
>>    Yes, I can't say enough about _Gravity's Rainbow_ - just read a few 
>>    pages and suddenly the idea of reading absolutely _anything else_ 
>>    seems breath-takingly interesting. I brought _GR_ along on a flight
>>    to London once and had to put it down after about about five pages 
>>    because I suddenly realized just how fascinating those airline magazines 
>>    are, and the Flight Safety Booklet, and the ingredients on that packet of 
>>    Ketchup... Yes, I never truly enjoyed reading a packet of Ketchup
>>    before I found _GR_. And the best thing about it is that it lasts a 
>>    lifetime - to this day I still enjoy not reading _GR_, and I plan to
>>    not read it frequently in the future. In fact I find not matter how many
>>    times I don't read _GR_, I still find something new in it.
>	Bravo! I tried to read Pynchon once, to see what all the
>	fuss was about.  From what I can tell, he's overrated.
>	Darin Powell
>	Syracuse University

+-----------------------------------SubG---------------------------------------+
I can easily see why folks might not enjoy Pynchon;  it's rigorous reading, and
that's not always what a lad's looking for when he picks up a book.

Overrated?  Possibly.  _Vineland_, _Crying of Lot 49_ and _Slow Learner_
weren't exactly brilliant.  _GR_, however, is without doubt one of the great 
novels in the English language and indeed in the world of literature.  And _V._ 
is pretty good, too.








-SubG
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 26 Jul 1992 22:06:33 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

_Snow Country_ by Yasunari Kawabata

"As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down
 inside him with a roar.'




Jack Carroll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:33:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: fiction endings

...they are well-formed, sentient and fair.  That is all we can tell about
them.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books