HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Saturn Polymer Side Panels - How tough ??
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:35:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.231516.1707@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> bobh@troy.uucp (22131-hettmansperger) writes:
>In article <Bx7En9.336@inews.Intel.COM> vdalvi@.intel.com (Vishram Dalvi ~) writes:
>>
>>I am considering buying a Saturn SL2. It will be my first car and what
>>worries me is it's having polymer side panels. I had been to a dealership
>>last week and the salesman kicked the punched the side panels to show how
>>tough they were :-) But does anybody know how they performed in impact
>>tests ? 
>
>I havn't seen any test results, but my understanding is that the underlying
>frame of the Saturn provides adequate structural support and the panels are
>for looks and aerodynamics.
>

Yes,  Saturn Claims that their cars are NOT unibody, which means that the 
panels have _NO_ intentional use as support and structural devices.  The cars
are a "Space Frame" design, meant to leave all structural rigidity to the 
inner supports.  This is why it *is* physically possible to drive a Saturn 
around w/o the body panels with no inherent loss in structural rigidity.  Why
you would  want to do that is beyond me.

>I asked my insurance company (New Jersey Manufacturers) about this after my 
>accident, and my agent indicated that the rates were actually lower.
>They were projecting lower repair costs on average because of the plastic
>panels.  Whether or not that has turned out to be true or not, I don't know,
>but my rates have been quite reasonable for two years now (given, of course,
>that I live in NJ!).

Saturn has worked with insurance agencies to minimize any faults they may have
with the car as insurers.  That is why the cars *have* plastic panels, and
a spaceframe construction.  Smart Company.
-- 
***RUSH***YES***FLOYD***PEARLJAM***METALLICA***STING***PAULSIMON***REM***U2***
*"Today is Pearl Harbor Day!"  <= George Herbert Walker Bush Sept. 7, 1988 ;>*
*"We Fight the Fires, While We're Feeding the Flames" <= RUSH "Second Nature"*
*******(c-amin1@uiuc.edu)***Chintan Amin***UniversityofIllinois***GoIllini****
From: jebt103@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mr. R.D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Peugeot 309
Date: 4 Nov 92 14:34:29 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University

I am thinking of buying a used Peugeot 309 GTI in the next couple of weeks. Anybody got one and want to tell me any problems or faults to look out for. If it's any good - or should I buy an XR3i instead ( joke !! ). I would also be interested in any performance mods anybody knows for it. 

Thanks in advance, I hope ?

Keywords: 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou)
Subject: Re: 1993 Probe -- two week initial impressions (long-ish)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:06:54 GMT

The new Probe looks great.  But the headlights are still pop-up type.  Up here
in Canada, we are required to leave the day time driving lights on.  Does that
mean the lights are kept popped up all the time?  Is is a big deal for auto
makers to switch to "fixed" type like the ones on Nissan 300ZX?
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Speeding ticket - Thank you all
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:22:40 GMT
Distribution: rec.autos
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


 

  I want to thank all the people who responded to my question.

  The reason for asking was that 1) I'm visiting this country,
  so I don't know much about trafic violation rules
  2) obvious after #1, never dealt with tickets before.

  Thanks again.

  Sergei Borodin


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: nsw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Neil Weinstock)
Subject: Re: Annoying film on windshield
Organization: The Flying Squid Patrol
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:32:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.174656.7155@newsgate.sps.mot.com> mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
>In article <64590096@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com>, knotts@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Tom Knotts) writes:
>|> What about that icky film that builds up on the inside of the window?
>|> It gets so bad that I can write my name from insude the car. How does
>|> one remove this film?
>
>Use only water and a soft rag with lots of elbow grease.  Avoid using glass
>"cleaners" as many leave a film of their own.  Whenever I buy a used car it
>takes several treatments like this before it will finally behave itself and
>stay clean.

I have had good success recently with Windex and newspaper and the requisite
elbow grease.  Thus far (around 3 weeks) the windshield has remained 100%
clear, and I am thrilled with the results.

Not much luck yet with the film on the outside of the windshield, though.
The results of the acetone application are still inconclusive; I'll have to 
check it next time we get rain.

                                - Neil

--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--
Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs         //     What was sliced bread
att!edsel!nsw or nsw@garage.att.com   \X/    the greatest thing since?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: saturn/OLDs speculation
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:13:53 GMT

jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:

>rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:

>>saturn to learn the saturn way of doing business...OLDs sales have
>>plumeted from over a million in 1986 to roughly 435k last year...
>>anyone care to comment on this???

>Someone also needs to figure out what Olds stands for. For a while there, they
>were the "not your father's Olds" company which pissed of older buyers. Now,
>I see full page ads touting Achieva SCX racing successes. I think GM should
>leave the "sport" with Pontiac, which has done well with that image. I'm not
>quite sure what Olds should be, maybe the "not quite the image of Cadillac,
>but better than Chevrolet, and not quite as sporty as Pontiac division." And
>of course, they had to do the Bravada which makes no sense whatsoever to Olds,
>maybe perhaps die-hard Olds buyers who need a sport-ute.

You know, this may not be the most spectacular observation, but what's
the difference these days (or in days past) between Olds and Buick??
Except for the Bravada, which can't be selling that well 'cause I hardly
*ever* see one, the divisions are very similar.  It's probably a
styling thing, 'cause isn't their market target the same?  Badge
engineering is not enuff these days.  The Acheiva is a great step, but
Camry-Accord-Acheiva tests not withstanding, lack of an airbag was a
poor decision.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake)
Subject: Re: Raising the limit
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:58:59 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1dv7t6INNr6h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
|> 
|> In a previous article, philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake) says:
|> 
|> >So, why don't those of you who both pay taxes and are allowed
|> >to vote introduce some ballot measures of your own, to get the
|> >speed raised to ... well ... say 90 m.p.h. on Interstates and
|> >70 m.p.h. on restricted access divided highways ?
|> 
|> that is the problem..you are talking to the enthusiats on here..
|> unfortunately..DC knows that MOST US drivers have no business
|> driving..and try to protect us all from those of us who fall
|> into that catagory(myself included, BTW..i have yet to manage
|> to take a REAL driver's training course...)..so..limits are
|> made..and the enthusiasts alone cannot really change something.

You seem to be saying that US drivers are generaly incompetent.
I have to disagree - well, let me re-phrase that to say that they
are no worse than drivers in many other countries, and in some respects
are better.

I have taken three driving tests, in three different countries, and
have three driving licenses to prove it. There are SIGNIFICANT
differences in the tests, and in the basic driving laws/styles,
but I wouldn't say that the test that I took in Oregon was any less
strict than anywhere else (they did want me to do things which would
guarantee failure in other contries, and which would also upset police
in most other countries, but thats another story).

In the (not too distant) past, one of the reasons for high accident
rates in the US was the horrible cars in use - with suspension
designed to convince the driver that he was floating on a cloud,
rather than being designed to keep the car on the road.

That is now less true than it was.

What is true now is that driving at 55 mph is liable to put the driver
to sleep (and often does).

But, getting back to the original point - do you REALY think that
most US drivers WANT the 55 limit ?

Philip
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Q on 93 Toyota Corolla/ Geo Prizm
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:18:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Addiction Studies Program, Seattle University

In article <1992Nov10.164916.23665@osf.org> wwang@osf.org writes:
>
>I'd like to find out what is new on these n32 93 model of Corolla and Geo Prizm. I know the the outlook has changed, and now airbag is standard. It is said to be larger than before? How larger? Other new features?

The biggest change, besides the increase in size, is the optional 1.8
litre engine (both the PRIZM and COROLLA have a 1.6 l in the base
models.)  There has been a significant increase in horsepower in both
engines.

Add to that an airbag, a more stylish wagon, a much higher list price,
and you have it!

For some reason the PRIZM is cheaper.... I think GM is really hurting
for sales.

-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
From: asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:47:14 PST
Organization: MDC - Douglas Aircraft, Long Beach, CA
Nntp-Posting-User: royce

> 
> Then again, weren't you and others applauding the poster who told me
> that I ought to watch out for my wife, lest she be swept off her feet by
> someone with a four-on-the-floor? Now you tell me, what qualities are
> inherantly those of clutch-lovers, that would make them attractive
> to intelligent women?

  Ok I AM the guy who said that.  Far be it from me to tell you what is
  attractive to the female species.  You sound so reasonable its actually
  quite amusing.  This is the sort of argument that goes like: "Well if I 
  have to dress nice to impress her then she is not worth my time, she 
  should like me the way I am."  Well let me tell you that the only people
  I have heard this argument from are the most womanless, boring people that
  are still so angry at the jocks in school that they fervently hope that
  the jocks were not successful and are serving fries in a fast food store.
  I posted the above callous remark as an aside that I realise is of no use
  here, since interpretations of manhood and machoism are different for all 
  of us and I would not want to force my definition upon others.  The reason
  for the remark is that it doesnt matter what YOUR definition is but it does
  matter what the woman in your life thinks right?  You would really be 
  surprised how many intelligent women I see all the time with those DUMB
  jocks...this is real life and sorry but a quick mind and a jock can still
  go together they are not that separate.  Even intelligent women like 
  excitement and that is what all the flamer against you are talking about
  EXCITEMENT.  Since you wish to remain uninitiated and are married I wish
  you good life and let us end this battle.  
  
  Asim 
  Sppeeeed
  


> 
> Considering what I've been subject to, just for suggesting that some
> people like cars for utilitarian reasons alone, from people who don't
> know anything about me, your indignant puffery is almost amusing. Unlike
> the general comments I made which you took personally, the nasty little
> replies posted here have been quite direct.
> 
> -- 
>  Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
>          evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
>          "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Rotary vs. Piston Engines
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:22:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar) says:

>> antkasx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Ken A. Sturrock) writes:
>
>>As I'm really ignorant about pistons:
>>How does the piston's movement in a piston engine prevent oil from
>>burning in the combustion chamber?
>
>Well, very simply, it goes like this.
>
>As the piston moves upward, the rings (specifically the oil control ring)
>push a film of oil along with the piston as it travels up the cylinder.
>After it reaches top dead center, the piston starts travelling back down.
>When this happens, the rings scrape the oil off of the cylinder walls as
>the piston decends, so that a minimal amount of oil is lost in the
>combustion chamber. I couldn't really say what the exact mechanics of the
>rings and oil interactions are, but basically this is how it is done.
>
>Anyway, that is why I could not figure out how rotaries kept oil out of the
>combustion chamber. There is no motion that opposes oil flow into the
>engine, so how is the oil kept from getting in there? That was my question.

it does not. the only things that ever touch in a rotary are the tip seals, and
they are lubed by the intake oil injection, which is burned, and expelled.
the only other things that need oiled are done so bye oil in some other shaft,
i do not know about these, but it is in some other posts..these parts never 
see any cobustion, though, so the oil does not have to be scraped off to
prevent it from burning...does this help at all??..the tips of the rotor, and
the tip seals are all that ever touch in the combustion  chambers.
DREW
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mlleung@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Johnson Leung Man Leung)
Subject: *** Buy car from USA to Canada ***
Followup-To: mlleung@neumann.uwaterloo.ca
Keywords: buy car
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 01:27:57 GMT

Hi,

Does anyone know what are the requirements needed when I would like to buy a 2nd hand car from USA to Canada? What are the regulations and what do I need to do?

Thanks.

Rgds,
Johnson


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mlleung@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Johnson Leung Man Leung)
Subject: Extended Warranty for Toyota Corolla 93
Followup-To: mlleung@neumann.uwaterloo.ca 
Keywords: Warranty for Corolla 93
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:45:43 GMT

Hi,

	I have just bought a new Toyota Corolla 93 car. Can anyone suggest whether I should also buy the 6 years extended warranty or not? It costs $7xx - $8xx, I forget exactly. Thanks.

Rgds,
Johnson




Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou)
Subject: Re: Top 20 Selling Vehicles of 1992
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:32:44 GMT

hsd@swl.msd.ray.com (HERBERT DASILVA) writes:
: hsd@swl.msd.ray.com (HERBERT DASILVA) writes:
: 
: >  3. Honda Accord		This is the list of top 20 sales of
: >  6. Toyota Camry		The Globe lists their source as
: > 11. Honda Civic
: > 14. Toyota Corolla
: > 18. Toyota pickup
: 
: >  4 out of the 20 are Japanese imports, the others are domestic.
: 
: >	Herb "Mopar Maniac" DaSilva
: 
:   OK, OK, before the beatings begin, it's obvious that there are 5, not 4
:   Japanese imports in the top 20, so just save the flames, OK?  :-)
: 
: 	Herb "Mopar Maniac" DaSilva

And the chances are that the four japanese cars are assembled in US or Canada.
I am not sure about Toyota pickups.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: here are the real Japanese car market numbers for 1990
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 18:29:29 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC

In article <1992Oct30.151350.11961@engage.pko.dec.com> sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke) writes:
>
>>>	Top 10 sellers of 1990:
>>>	-------------------------------
>>>
>>>	Toyota Corolla, 	300,000
>>>	Toyota Marc II  	222,000
>>>	Toyota Crown    	205,000
>>>	Nissan Sunny    	176,000
>>>	Toyota Carina   	176,000
>>>	Toyota Corona   	172,000
>>>	Honda Civic     	141,000
>>>	Mazda Familia   	122,000
>>>	Toyota Starlet  	121,000
>>>	Toyota Sprinter 	116,000
>>>
>>>	New Registrations by engine size
>>>	--------------------------------
>>>
>>>	less than 550 cc 	795,000
>>>	551-1000 cc		139,000
>>>	1000-1500 cc	      1,200,000
>>>	1500-2000 cc	      2,500,000
>>>	over 2000 cc		467,000
>>>
>> 
>
> That's total number of cars on the road, assuming all cars are
> registered.  If a car stays on the road on an average for 5 years
> then the annual market need to be divided by 5.

No, it doesn't.  Re-read his posting -- the engine size figures
are for "*New* Registrations" (i.e., registrations of new cars).

And anyway, given that the top ten sellers of 1990 add up to more
than 1.7 million, it's hard to see how you could claim an annual
market *total* of 5.1M/5 ~= 1 million.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Stick VS Auto.
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:50:41 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <2126@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>
>If you have a conventional car, you don't have TOTAL control -- the
>steering wheels are locked to the same angle.  If you can rotate those
>wheels independently, there are some important maneuvers you can
>perform.  They might save your life.
>
>[Yeah, I know it sounds flakey, but I once had an engineering professor
>who really believed this.]
>
   It sounds worse than flakey.  Repost on one of the racing
   oriented boards and see what kind of a horse laugh or flame fest
   you generate.

   But of course if you don't want your steering wheels both turning
   at [roughly] the same angle, just disconnect a tie rod >:-)
   Just make sure your Blue Cross is paid up...


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: LIDAR Demo on TV
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:18:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.182532@usho21.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>
> They were using the Pro Laser Gun that has the little
> Heads Up Display on top that puts a little red target
> bullseye on the target vehicle.  It took a couple of
> seconds to "lock up" and gave both a speed and distance
> reading.  They "shoot" a short distances (the longest
> one was just 128 yards) in ambush mode hiding behind
> bushes and parked cars.
>
> The only disadvantage shown was the 2-3 second lock-up
> time and the difficulty keeping the sighting bullseye
> on the vechile.  Even at distances just over 300 feet,
> the dot was dancing all over the car.  That seems to
> back up the C&D Lidar test a while back that said it
> was difficult to keep the target in the sight long
> enough to get a "lock-up" at distances much over 500
> feet. 

Is the dot actually hitting the car?  Is the dot used for aiming, with
the real beam coming from a more powerful IR laser source?  So I guess they
shoot 2 beams at you?  How can they see the dot at 100 yards (a scope?)

How are they using these Lidars on the highway (like in the usual stake-out
positions; under overpasses, etc).

I read that night-vision goggles are real good at picking up IR sources...
And their getting cheap too.
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Are there any Luxary AWD?
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:09:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: engr.Nov12.070130.16897
Organization: clearer than blir

In article <1992Nov11.231339.16648@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
>>Audi quattro!!  the cars that started the ball rolling.  The company

>Bzzzzt! Wrong.  I think you will find that the first sports sedan with
>4 wheel drive was the...

>Jensen Intercepter FF.  

heh heh, yes i'm aware of the Jensen, which is why i said "the cars
that started the ball rolling".  the Jensen was a technical
masterpiece for its time (1967) but was a sales and marketing failure.
there wasn't another "AWD" car for 13 years until the Audi quattro
appeared, which revolutionised the concept and led to every major
manufacturer attempting to offer AWD.  AWD is here to stay now, thanks
to Audi.  the way i look at it, Jensen introduced the concept, but the
ball never budged!  :-)


eliot
From: zari@ee.fit.edu (Kevin Zari)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: gif
Summary: looking for ftp w/ auto (acura) gifs
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:13:33 GMT
Organization: Florida Tech, CP/EE Dept.

anyone know an ftp site with car gifs? I am looking for some acuras and
possibly an Avanti
please e-mail me at zari@ee.fit.edu


	thanks
kz
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ford F150 & Rangers - Which years to stay away from?
From: <KANTOLA@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:34:43 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

In article <LEE.92Nov10124201@ace.npac.syr.edu>, lee@ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C.
Brink) says:
>
>I looking to buy either a used F150 or a Ranger, and I would like to
>hear the opinion of the net.  As with any model, some years are worse than
>others.  Which years should I stay away from?
>
>I'm also soliciting opinions on these models in general.  I'm looking
>to an optimum balance between load capacity & economy.  Any recommendations
>will be greatly appreciated.
>
We have a 1987 F-150 with a EFI 302.  It's been as far south as the Colorado
Rockies and as far north as the Hudson Bay.  It's been beat to hell driving
through woods and fields for firewood, it's rolled down a hill when only 24
hours new into a tree, it's hit a parked carr on a patch of ice (only a dent
in the bumper but payed dearly for the other car), and it's been used as a car
around the city's 800 foot hills in the winter (Duluth).  She still runs like
new today, she's still doing the same work, and people still are amazed at how
a truck can ride so comfortably and quietly.
Newsgroups: rec.autos