HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Home brew Computer Numerical Control info wanted
Keywords: CNC, Apple
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:13:57 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

In article <1992Sep8.132324.21314@access.digex.com> jbenni@access.digex.com (John Bennison) writes:
>A friend with several lathes (including an 8" swing), is interested in 
>developing a simple Computer Numerical Control system for one of his machines.
>He has a Mac IIcx, and an Apple //e, but doesn't know computers.  I can help
>him with the electronics and device driver software, but I don't know CNC.
>
>The Sept/Oct issue of "The Home Shop Machinist" includes an article on how to
>build your own CNC Controller, which seems to be a good start.  It also
>includes some interesting ads and product announcements.
>
>Q1) Any other "How to" articles or sources recommened?
	HSM has had articles for at least two or three years, I would look
	for back issues.
>Q2) Anyone done this with an Apple computer?
	Yes, at a local community college, they had what looked like a 
	Shereline (but with another lable) which was hooked up to an
	Apple II of some kind.
>Q4) Any info on sources for motors and drivers?
	Try Cardinal Enginerring, I think they are interested in CNC
	for the Hobbiest.
>Q7) What are G codes and M codes, where are they documented?
	Again, HSM back issues had some discussion of them, and also 
	resources.

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
From: alexo+@cs.cmu.edu (Alex Orenshteyn)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Enco 100-1526 Milling Package
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:30:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

More, More, More.

Who is the WW?
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Enco 100-1526 Milling Package
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:59:22 GMT
Organization: LLNL

Plan on getting greasy.  The Nantong Machine Tool Works does not want your
milling machine to rust on its way to your shop.

A couple of Saturdays ago, wonder woman and me visited the Enco showroom
in San Jose and those milling machines in the Enco catalog look even
better in person.  After due consideration, wonder woman selected the
8 X 36 table and I began writing checks (you need tooling too).  For those
without, my old (1912) Van Normam is on the block for $500 (with rotary
table, some tooling, clamping kit, but no vise).  Please don't respond if
you are not in the San Francisco Bay area, because it is worth picking up
in your (robust) pickup truck, but it is not worth paying somebody to ship
somewhere.

A week later, WW and me showed up with a U-Haul and the Enco folks loaded
us up.  The forklift at the other end was 2 hours late, but the delivery
guy exhibited great self control while he watched me get that pallet
off the truck and into the shop.  I backed the forklift up into the
street and said "I'm done".  Both of us were relieved.

The guy that said "every journey starts with a single step" forgot about
the other end.  That last 6 inches (down from the pallet) takes a day.
The 100-1526 weighs 1700 lbs.  More on that at a later date.

The grease.  You spend the next day degreasing.  Take a four-day weekend.
You'll need it.  Also, several old sets of clothes.

I got it degreased and oiled.  Got the electrical hooked up.  Have to use
a rotary phase converter (it's three-phase) which is more bucks.

The spindle spun up.  At 3500 rpm, it takes three seconds to wind up.  Ah,
the sound of a three-phase machine starting is music.  The DRO and
the table feed work great, too.

Still haven't cut metal.  Maybe tonight.  More on this later if there's
interest.

G.
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking,misc.forsale
From: pmg@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Paul M. Gaston)
Subject: Metal Lathe For Sale
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:44:36 GMT

South Bend Metal Lathe For Sale

15" Swing
52" Between Centers
1 HP Single Phase Motor 

Made in the late 1920's 
Good condition

$1500.00

Phone (804) 973-1289 or Email to pmg@virginia.edu
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Enco 100-1526: More (note 2)
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:24:43 GMT
Organization: LLNL

First, in answer to Alex Orenshteyn's question "who is WW", she is M. Drlik,
my life's companion.  She is wonder woman because how many men are
accompanied to a machinery store by their wives who say, after carefully
examining all the machines, "lets get that one."

Getting your 1700 lb mill down from a 6" pallet is an endeavor you don't
want to be exciting.  Fortunately, the Nantong Machine Tool Works had
thoughtfully drilled the corners of the base with 0.9" holes, which are
just about tap size for a 1" X 8 bolt.  After searching far and wide I
located the required tap at the hardware store nearest my shop (who woulda
thought?) and proceeded to spend the next 3 hours tapping 4 holes.

If you ever encounter a guy that habitually breaks 1" taps, leave his wife
alone.

So I bolted two 4X4 X 6feet beams to the top of the base and jacked and blocked,
and jacked and blocked, and ....  Anyway, once the machine was up off the
pallet I could slide the pallet from under, and then let it down by stages.
I even bolted some 400 lb capacity casters to the 4X4s and wheeled it into
its final location. (400 lb casters weigh about 30 lbs each).  It now rests
upon a 3/4" plywood "soft" base to accommodate floor to base errors.

Unlike the Enco ad, which is wrong, the machine does not have forward/rear
head tilt.  It does, however, have every other movement stated in the ad.
For those without Enco catalogs (page 30 of the August 1992 version), the
movements are 23" table X 9.5" cross X 13" vertical.  Finish of bearings and
exposed machined surfaces is superb.  The machine itself is about a 3/4
replica of a full-sized Bridgeport (9 X 42 table).  Other features include
central ("one-shot") lube, large, beautifully finished handcranks and dials,
gibs on all three axes, two-speed spindle motor, 5 step pulley, 5" quill
travel X 4" quill diameter, tapered roller bearing spindle, about 12"
ram travel, head rotation about the ram axis, and ram assembly rotation about
the vertical body axis.  All axes moved smoothly and easily.  The quill
worked beautifully either by handlever (like a drill press) or by handwheel
(for boring).  There is no power quill feed, but the quill handwheel slides
off a shaft that seems destined, at some future date, to have a gear motor
attached.

Tonight I indicate the machine and take the first cut.

Tune in next time ....

Gary
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
From: jbenni@access.digex.com (John Bennison)
Subject: Home brew Computer Numerical Control info wanted
Keywords: CNC, Apple
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:23:24 GMT

A friend with several lathes (including an 8" swing), is interested in 
developing a simple Computer Numerical Control system for one of his machines.
He has a Mac IIcx, and an Apple //e, but doesn't know computers.  I can help
him with the electronics and device driver software, but I don't know CNC.

The Sept/Oct issue of "The Home Shop Machinist" includes an article on how to
build your own CNC Controller, which seems to be a good start.  It also
includes some interesting ads and product announcements.

Q1) Any other "How to" articles or sources recommened?
Q2) Anyone done this with an Apple computer?
Q3) How big a stepper motor is needed for a Jet 8" swing lathe?
Q4) Any info on sources for motors and drivers?
Q5) Any experience with "ah-ha! Design Groups, Inc."?
Q6) Any experience with Jack Heald's Desktop Manufacturing System, Minitech
    Machinery Corp.?
Q7) What are G codes and M codes, where are they documented?

Help with these questions, and any experience welcome!  Post here or mail to
"jbenni@access.digex.com" and I'll summarize.  Thanks!


-- 
jbenni@digex.com
From: alexo+@cs.cmu.edu (Alex Orenshteyn)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Enco 100-1526: More (note 3)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:33:51 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <135919@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes:
>Last night "Albert" cut his first metal.
>
>I spent the first hour or so setting up and indicating.  0.0005 deviation in
>20" of table travel surface height variation measured from a test indicator
>magged to the spindle.  On the front surface of the table, 0.0015 deviation
>over the same travel, but this could have been spindle rotation.  I didn't
>check anything more because I wanted to cut.
>
"Front surface" of the table? Is it still the top surface which is closer
to the operator? Are you measuring the vertical deviation here?
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Enco 100-1526: More (note 3)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:26:29 GMT
Organization: LLNL

Last night "Albert" cut his first metal.

I spent the first hour or so setting up and indicating.  0.0005 deviation in
20" of table travel surface height variation measured from a test indicator
magged to the spindle.  On the front surface of the table, 0.0015 deviation
over the same travel, but this could have been spindle rotation.  I didn't
check anything more because I wanted to cut.

The first job which Albert chose to accept was milling a 5/8 slot in the
bottom of my favorite milling vise, so the vise will automatically line
up when clamped to the table.  5/8 blocks fit into the slot and also into
the table T-slots, forcing alignment when the vise is placed on the table.

I clamped a 3 X 4 X 6 cast iron v-block so that the long direction was
parallel to the table travel.  The vise was inverted, clamping on to the
v-block (which was acting simply as a large parallel) so that the bottom
was exposed and the jaws were parallel to table travel.  Along the way
I found that I hadn't yet degreased the clamping kit or the collets.  As
usual, there weren't enough parallels to do it the easy way (are there ever?),
but perserverence and determination got everything set up and the
great moment had arrived.

Well, almost.  Inside to the library to check my Metal Cutting Tool Handbook
to figure feed and speed for TiN coated high-speed steel cutting cast
iron.  Back to the shop.

R-r-r-r-m-m-m.  Quiet cutting noises.  Table feed noises.  Shutdown.
Brush the chips.  First pass looks.........Great!!!!  Keep mowing.
Down to 0.150 and ready to move sideways for final sizing.  Wow, this
digital readout stuff is great.  Two more passes and we're AT SIZE.

Gary
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
From: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Control of metal properties
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:38:21 GMT

How do I control the properties of metal that is being heated?
Things like hardness, brittleness, ductility, etc.  I have heard
that plunging a piece of hot metal in oil will harden it.  How
would this differ from using water instead of oil?

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Dazix, An Intergraph Company	uunet!ingr!b23b!naomi!lester
Huntsville, AL			(205) 730-8537

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who can count, and those who can't.
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Enco 100-1526 Milling Package
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:40:56 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <lb2airINNb6r@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, jgl@roadhawg.corp.sun.com (Joe Lurker STE) writes:
> 
> So where is this Enco showroom that I don't seem to
> be able to find?
>
Turn west off 680 onto the Montague Expressway and go about 1 mile to
the Old Oakland Road (I think, it's about the third light after you
get onto Montague Xway), turn left (South) and go about 400 yds and
Enco is on the left (East) side of the road.  It's one of a suite of
industrial office/warehouses in a large gray complex.
 
> Ah!  A new mill!   I am green with envy!!!   8^)
> 

I was amazed myself.  But, after all, it's only money.  And what good does
that do you, if it just sits in the bank earning interest?  Seriously,
though, I do have some business plans, which satisfied the puritanical
streak (everything must have a use), after which my artistic side then gleefully
enjoyed the sensation of having a beautiful new machine.

Want to buy a grubby old machine?

G.
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Enco 100-1526: More (note 4)
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:52:42 GMT
Organization: LLNL

Albert spent last evening milling brass blocks for locating vises.

So far there've been no surprises and everything, except for a few minor
details, has been great.  The clamping kit, which I purchased separately, is
fine except for finish on a few items.  It's clear that the chasing tool
was disengaged quickly as soon as they got the threads chased.  The nuts
show the remains of the hardening pack (surfaces were not finish ground).
The T-slot sides on the table are a little rough, but not bad.  So far, that's
it.

Thought I'd talk about the decision process that chose between the
9 X 42 table machine (100-1528) and the 8 X 36 table machine.  The main
limiting factor for me on milling machines is headroom.  The smaller
machine has 13" while the larger machine has only 16".  Headroom is important
when you start stacking up vise, parallels, and jigs.  Suddenly you don't
have room to get the tool or the drill chuck in and your heavy duty quill
does no good.  There are ways to get around this, but convenience is
decreased.  I was mulling this over in the showroom and eventually took
wonder woman's advice and got the smaller machine.  I'm glad I did now,
because moving was a bear and my favorite low-profile vise looks fine on
the table.  There's plenty of room for what I want to do and the compact
dimensions of the 3/4 size machine are just right.  The little machine
also had some amenities not present on it's bigger brother, while lacking
one movement and power quill feed.  Neither of the latter are problems because
I can get head rotation side to side (as opposed to fore and aft also) and
it looks very simple to install a feed motor on the quill feed handwheel
shaft if I need it.  The bigger mill does not have the very nice quill
scale and adjustable stop, but a much cruder version.

The two lateral movements are quite adequate unless you are doing big plates.

It will be another several weeks until I'm really familiar enough with the
machine to give a definitive report.  Until then, I'm willing to answer
questions sent by e-mail.  I think I'll collect questions and post the
responses so that everybody can see them.

Gary
From: jgl@roadhawg.corp.sun.com (Joe Lurker STE)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Enco 100-1526 Milling Package
Date: 11 Sep 1992 23:23:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jgl@roadhawg.corp.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: roadhawg.corp.sun.com

So where is this Enco showroom that I don't seem to
be able to find?

Ah!  A new mill!   I am green with envy!!!   8^)

joe
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: Re: Enco 100-1526: More (note 3)
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:16:34 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <BuF4GI.9Kz.1@cs.cmu.edu>, alexo+@cs.cmu.edu (Alex Orenshteyn) writes:
> 
eck anything more because I wanted to cut.
> >
[stuff deleted]

> "Front surface" of the table? Is it still the top surface which is closer
> to the operator? Are you measuring the vertical deviation here?
> 
> 
The table has a top, a front, and a rear surface.  The front surface is
vertical and I was measuring the fore-aft deviation of the front surface
as the table drive moved the table.  The spindle has a barely perceptible
rotational play due to the operating clearance of the drive spline in
the pulley.  Once you pick this clearance up, you feel the full inertia
of the spindle, drive pulley, and motor (multiplied by the square of the
belt ratio).  Thus, the test indicator magged to the spindle can move very
slightly due to this slight spindle rotation, the spindle and bearings being
precise and turning very easily.
From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: trial.rec.metalworking
Subject: proposed charter
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:17:47 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY

A few weeks ago I started some rumblings about renaming this group,
to drop the "trial" from the name.  It would appear that the "trial"
newsgroup creation method is essentially dead, so I will probably have
to just do a create-from-scratch of a new group.  BTW the response was
overwhelmingly in favor of this, with no suggestions to keep it as-is.

So, the next step will be to attempt to create rec.metalworking.  One of
the required items for a new newsgroup is a charter explaining what the
group is all about.  I've sort of tossed one together, below, as a first
draft.  Let me know of any additions/changes that should be made.

This is *NOT* yet a call for votes.  I just need to get things together
to initiate one.

Jim Kirkpatrick
jimkirk@corral.uwyo.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Charter -- REC.METALWORKING

The USENET newsgroup, rec.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses
various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to):

  machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.;
  numerical control of such machines;
  welding, whether by gas, arc, thermite, or other methods;
  casting various metals by various methods;
  hardening/tempering various metals;
  blacksmithing;
  interesting projects;

Example areas of interest:

  gunsmithing;
  automotive repair;
  steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!);
  art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures;

While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards
small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also
quite welcome.
Newsgroups: trial.soc.culture.italian
From: cotrozzi@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (Massimo Cotrozzi)
Subject: Re: Parliamo?
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:24:50 GMT

jrg@netcom.com (Parade) writes:


>	Sono appena tornata dall' Italia e mi manca la lingua e la vita.
>Se hai i sentimenti forti degli italiani ed li loro paese, sriveli e parliamo.

Ah... ma scusa, dove li hai trovati i sentimenti forti degli Italiani ?
E ,soprattutto, verso cosa erano questi sentimenti, ed ancora, di che tipo ?
 ( odio, amore, lealta` (??), etc ... ) .
 Io sono un patriota convinto, amo l'Italia, ne disprezzo la pubblica
 amministrazione, ma sono fiero di essere Italiano.
Se hai voglia ne possiamo parlare ...

	Ciao,
		Massimo


>					Ciao--Liz

>-- 
>jrg@netcom.com                                             russ granger
>   Founder of the People's Popular Front for Revolutionary Darwinism
					      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
May be you can explain it to me ....

>                     Parade says, "Evolution NOW!"
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
!  /|/|  /| \ /  ! Massimo Cotrozzi  Computer Science Dept. Milan Italy  !
! /   | /-|  \   ! cotrozzi@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it      			 !
!/    |/  | / \  ! massimo@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it	                         !
From: choi@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jin-Young Choi)
Newsgroups: trial.test
Subject: test
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:43:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Test. !

Newsgroups: trial.test
From: crichard@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (christopher richards)
Subject: testing
Summary: Posting test
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:31:21 GMT

No surprise here.

Newsgroups: trial.talk.politics.peace
From: karageorgiou@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (Voodoo Man : member XMAK)
Subject: Re: Pacifism vs. Resistance
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.154827.42912@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, kubard@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes...
>Glenn,
> 
>I read with interest your post.  I too am a pacifist and have had a great deal
>of trouble trying to find someone to share my beliefs.  I sympathize with your
>position. 
> 
>However, your post raises an important question in my opinion.  Does pacifism
>connote non-resistance?  I would say that the answer is no.  If I'm wrong on
>this then I guess I'm not a pacifist.  However, it seems to me that pacifism is
>a call for non-violence, not non-resistance.  It is possible to resist without
>becoming violent.  Ghandi is, of course, the most famous example.
> 
>Non-resistance bothers me a great deal as it seems to imply a blow with the 
>wind outlook.  It is our responsibility as citizens to act and effect change
>when we see something that we believe is not right.  This action is resistance.
>To do any less would be to shirk our responsibilities as citizens not only of
>our country, but of our individual communities and the world.\
> 
>That is not to say that this resistance must be violent or angry.  However, we
>must if we are to make our pacifistic beliefs the norm rather than the
>exception resist our essentially violent culture.  We must lead not allow
>others to roll by.
> 
>I wlecome your comments and those of the rest of the news board on this
>subject.
> 

	Hmm damn good point. Noting the monkey nature of humans , being passive
is understood as helpless therefore as a target. In other words if you are
passive you are inviting a master. 
	My world view of pacifism is to be non-aggressive. If you can convince
everyone that you can protect youself but have no intentions of attack then
IMHO you are a pacifist.
	Don't get me wrong i would LOVE a planet without weapons,troublemakers
juntas,dictatorships etc. But being passive will not help you, it will rather
spread more talk about Peace while somebody else is bounding you.
>						Peace,
>						John Phythyon, Jr.
>
Yeian & Eytyxeian
Angelos Karageorgiou
Peace = Eirini

Newsgroups: trial.talk.politics.peace
From: kubard@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: trial.talk.politics.peace
Subject: Pacifism vs. Resistance
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:48:27 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Glenn,

I read with interest your post.  I too am a pacifist and have had a great deal
of trouble trying to find someone to share my beliefs.  I sympathize with your
position. 

However, your post raises an important question in my opinion.  Does pacifism
connote non-resistance?  I would say that the answer is no.  If I'm wrong on
this then I guess I'm not a pacifist.  However, it seems to me that pacifism is
a call for non-violence, not non-resistance.  It is possible to resist without
becoming violent.  Ghandi is, of course, the most famous example.

Non-resistance bothers me a great deal as it seems to imply a blow with the 
wind outlook.  It is our responsibility as citizens to act and effect change
when we see something that we believe is not right.  This action is resistance.
To do any less would be to shirk our responsibilities as citizens not only of
our country, but of our individual communities and the world.\

That is not to say that this resistance must be violent or angry.  However, we
must if we are to make our pacifistic beliefs the norm rather than the
exception resist our essentially violent culture.  We must lead not allow
others to roll by.

I wlecome your comments and those of the rest of the news board on this
subject.

						Peace,
						John Phythyon, Jr.