HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@canuck.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Cohen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Layout verification (DRC, LVS, etc)
Date: 22 Nov 1992 19:15:53 GMT
Organization: Advanced Hardware Architectures
NNTP-Posting-Host: canuck.berkeley.edu
Keywords: DRC, LVS, Verification, PRE

During the course of evaluating VLSI CAD tools, I've been getting some
conflicting reports regarding Mentor's layout verification tools,
ICRules, ICExtract, etc. Since we're evaluating a new purchase, we're
looking at 8.1.

Our chips range in size from around 200K to 1Meg transistors, and are
generally a mix of hand crafted and standard cell. The higher
transistor count chips generally have some kind of regular array.

I'd like to hear from Mentor users who have done chips of a similar
size, and have verified them using Mentor's tools. If you've designed
the chip with Mentor's tools, but used some other DRC, LVS, LPE, PRE
package, I'd also like to know why you decided to go that route.

Thanks in advance.

Paul


-- 
Paul B. Cohen				| paul@aha.com
Advanced Hardware Architectures, Inc.	| paul@ic.berkeley.edu
P.O Box 9669				| (208) 883-8000 (v)
Moscow, ID 83843			| (208) 883-8001 (f)
From: schmitz@scd.hp.com (John Schmitz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Board Station: side 2 component locator?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 14:09:15 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Santa Clara Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsceo.scd.hp.com

board station 8.05 running on hpux 720:

Trivial task but the Mentor hotline hasn't produced a solution yet:
Create a side 2 component locator.  Should be easy, right?

Suggestion 1:  just print the silkscreen.  Doesn't work because I
had to move a lot of the silkscreen references to a place off the
board because they would have overlapped pads.  Also, they are no
longer on top of the component which is where you'd like to have the
locator reference.

Suggestion 2:  add the reference to the glue mask or any other 2
sided layer.  Doesn't work because all references get the same
characteristics as the silkscreen.  Thus these glue mask references
are now off the edge of the board.

Suggestion 3:  turn on the reference information in fablink.  Problem
is getting this reversed.  You want to look at the back side of the
board from the back and the text had better be readable.  No good.

Solution 1 (best I've got but I can't believe this is reasonable):
Do the glue mask suggestion, but before plotting, go into the
comps.comps_ file and remove all the REFLOC information.  Then make
the drawing.  Then restore the comps.comps_ file.  Totally bogus but
it works.

Can you come up with a better solution?  Doesn't anyone else use
component locators?

This seems to be a general problem with Board Station:  everything
must be done from the front of the board.  There is no concept of
flipping it over and working on the back.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
From: scott@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Scott Colwell)
Subject: Re: Running Boardstation under MIT X11R4/5
Organization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:35:23 GMT

ptyang@emerald.janet.ucla.edu (Paul T. Yang) writes:

>We have been running Boardstation under SUN's OPENWINDOW environment
>but would like to run it under generic X11R4/R5 from MIT. We have
>heard that this can be done provided that the fonts used by the
>tools be converted from OPENWINDOW to X11 format. We have tried
>but without any success so far. Has anyone out there been able to
>get Boardstation running under pure generic X11?

Yes, we have it running under both V8.0 and V8.1.  The easiest way to
get it running is to find all the directories with bdf fonts in them
and run bdftopcf or bdftosnf (depends on the X server) over them and
then run mkfontdir in each font directory.  You will (?may) need to also
put a set of fonts into idea/registry/fonts (this is where the openwindows
fonts live) and run mkfontdir here too.  If you want to run the apps on
a display other than the console, you will need to consider how you want
to proceed.  The apps set the font path to things like /idea/pkgs/base/fonts
so you will probably want to make your idea tree accessible over nfs or go
to the trouble of making a tree of mentor fonts and installing them on
your machine that serves the fonts for your group. (this latter approach
will take some trial and error to get the correct pathnames.)

I believe that this will all become easier soon when Mentor support
X terminals.

-- 
Scott Colwell				Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd.
net:	scott@labtam.labtam.oz.au	41 Malcolm Rd., Braeside
phone:	+61-3-587-1444			Melbourne, Australia  3195
From: baker@ctron.com (Lauren Baker)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Re: Running Boardstation under MIT X11R4/5 and P
Date: 15 Nov 92 19:50:51 GMT
To: mike@rtp-nc.mentorg.com



We are running DA okay under MIT X11R4, and all that takes is a font
conversion,
which is pretty painless. The only problem is that we never get the
minor grid
displayed, nor the dot (aka period).

Boardstation is a whole nother matter, since they don't use fonts at all
under X guidelines (Boardstation is developed by a separate group), so 
font conversion is very much a pain. And we haven't had the time to figure
out what we did wrong, so I am interested in your success in converting 
fonts for PCB. I will also look into the script sent by the Mentor AE.

One word of warning - Mentor DOES NOT support the Consortium X, and you WILL
have lots of problems getting any bugs or problems investigated. Mentor WILL
ALWAYS blame any problem you have on the X-server, and you will need to
recreate under Sun X11/News Openwin to get any kind of response.

As for geometries, there are two ways - either get pcb-parts, which doesn't
include connectors, or have a consulting company build them for you. You should
be able to find a local board house that would do it pretty cheap.
From: gotom@hpysoln.tky.hp.com (Masaharu Goto)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:32:25 GMT
Subject: HELP:Verilog to VHDL translator
Organization: YHP Hachioji IT, Tokyo Japan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor


Subject: Verilog-HDL to VHDL translator

 Does anyone have information or experience about Verilog-HDL to VHDL 
translator?  

 My situation is

 I am designing an IC using Verilog-XL simulator.  On the other hand 
We will buy Mentor QuickSim2 for PC board simulation. It is very nice if
I could simulate the PC board with QuickSim2 including IC behavior model I 
write in Verilog.
 We will start the board simulation next April. I don't require
full timing simulation. Bulk delay simulation or even unit delay simulation
is still OK.  This time, purpose of the trial is pilot run of the Mentor
system rather than design verification itself. 

 Any kind of information/suggestions are appreciated.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
From: rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu (R. J. Auletta)
Subject: Re: Sun SPARC hangs on v8.1 Layout
Keywords: sun openwin layout bug
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:34:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.171936.14919@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.184340.16380@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen) writes:

>> Any help would be appreciated.  I realize Mentor's interface
>> to XWin needs work -- but can anyone help?  Thanks, mike knudsen

You might want to look at the command xmodmap, and change the mapping of
the meta key to something less troublesome.  (And if you need the Meta
key, remap it elsewhere.)

Also xev can be used to determine quickly and precisely the keycode
etc for the meta key by striking the offending key in the xev window. 

I have found some keys on some machines appear to refuse to be remapped.

-RjAuletta
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
From: rwhitby@research.canon.oz.au (Rod Whitby)
Subject: Re: Running Boardstation under MIT X11R4/5
Originator: rwhitby@bing
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research, Australia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:43:08 GMT

> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
> From: scott@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Scott Colwell)
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:35:23 GMT
> 
> Yes, we have it running under both V8.0 and V8.1.  The easiest way to
> get it running is to find all the directories with bdf fonts in them
> and run bdftopcf or bdftosnf (depends on the X server) over them and
> then run mkfontdir in each font directory.  You will (?may) need to also
> put a set of fonts into idea/registry/fonts (this is where the openwindows
> fonts live) and run mkfontdir here too.  If you want to run the apps on
> a display other than the console, you will need to consider how you want
> to proceed.  The apps set the font path to things like /idea/pkgs/base/fonts
> so you will probably want to make your idea tree accessible over nfs or go
> to the trouble of making a tree of mentor fonts and installing them on
> your machine that serves the fonts for your group. (this latter approach
> will take some trial and error to get the correct pathnames.)

I have succeeded in getting Design Analyser and Quicksim II (both
version 8.1) running under MIT X11R5 pl 17 on a sparcstation II under
SunOS 4.1.2 ...

... but when I start bold_browser, it crashes the Xsun server with a
segmentation fault in the bitblt routines.  I don't know whether it's
a bug in the R5 sample server, or whether it's an incompatibility in
bold_browser.

Has anyone succeeded in getting bold_browser to run under MIT X11R5 ?

-- 
--------------------------------------------- _--_|\  |
Rod Whitby (rwhitby@research.canon.oz.au)    /      \ |
Canon Information Systems Research Australia \_.--._/ |
1 Thomas Holt Drive, North Ryde, N.S.W., 2113.     v  |
From: renney@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Renney Thomas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cdc
Subject: Quota Problem
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:26:06 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


I am on a unix machine with disk quotas in effect. My disk quota is
limited to 3000m. The problem is that after a while the quota system
does'nt update my activities properly and refuses to let me write to disk.
This is even after I am well below the limit. My account manager has to
reset it _every time_. What may be causing the problem? Any insights would
be appreciated. 

Machine: CDC model ? based on MIPS RISC architecture. 
OS :  EP/IX v 1.4.3
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: ygor@aplexus.jhuapl.edu (Daniel E. White  (F2C))
Subject: Re: Stylewriter and Greyscale?
Organization: Johns Hopkins U. Applied Physics Lab
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:00:42 GMT


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                               Dan White
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes  I  think  the  surest  sign  that  intelligent  life exists
 elsewhere  in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
                                                  Calvin (Bill Waterson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: zellner@stsci.edu
Subject: nix on checkbook programs
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:48:55 GMT

If you just want a checkbook ledger and not actually to print checks,
never mind a checkbook program.  Use any decent spreadsheet program.
I used to use Appleworks, and now I use Clarisworks.  Make columns as 
follows:

   -  check number
   -  date
   -  the "To" field
   -  the "For" field
   -  a column for a "tax" flag
   -  a column for deposits
   -  a column for check written
   -  a column for your ledger balance
   -  a column for a "returned?" flag
   -  a column for the bank balance.

Set up the necessary arithmetic:  Add a deposit or subtract a check from the
previous value for the ledger balance, but do the same for the bank balance
only after a check is returned and you have set the flag.  Then you can just 
duplicate lines as needed.  Make a separate spreadsheet for each account that
you have.

It will take all the pain out of balancing your checkbook, and will also make
things very easy for income tax.  To add up tax-deductible expenses, etc., 
make a COPY of your spreadsheet and sort on the "tax flag" column.  

But DO NOT SORT YOUR SPREADSHEET!  That will make a terrible mess.

Ben
From: ucess2j@ucl.ac.uk (Dr Jaroslav Stark)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Installer 3.2
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:37:10 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

I am trying to install the Serial Laserwriter from DMM LW 7.x - this 
seems to require Installer 3.2, however I just have v3.4 which came with
Sys. 7.1 on my new IIvx. Where can I get a copy of installer 3.2,
or alternatively, how do I persuade the script to work with 3.4.
I tried ftp.apple.com, could only find v3.4 there. 

Many thanks

Jaroslav Stark

(j.stark@ucl.ac.uk)
From: joungwoo@mensa.usc.edu (John Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: (Q) Which Diskspace saver program?
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:46:19 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mensa.usc.edu
Summary: Which diskspace save program should I choose?
Keywords: diskspace


Hello.
	I am planning to buy a diskspace saver program, which compresses the
files on my harddisk. Two in the market seem good: 

Aladdin Systems' (who make StuffIt deluxe, etc.) StuffIt Space Saver 1.0 ($34)
Salient (or Fifth Generation)'s AutoDoubler ($45)

Both seem to do compressing in background and make the fact that you're
working with compressed files transparent to the user except that things are
a bit slower than before. I wonder what is the differences are between these
two besides the $10 price difference.

Your info/tips on
o how reliable each's compression/decompression is
o bug report
o the degree of slowdown
o the popularity of each
o etc.
would be greatly appreciated.

Please email me directly and I'll post the summary.

Thanks in advance.

John
-- 
Joung-woo John Kim				joungwoo@mensa.usc.edu
Computer Science Dept.
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089-0781

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: kuss@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian Kuss)
Subject: WindowPicker under 7.1?
Keywords: WindowPicker
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:15:12 GMT

Hello....

I'm using WindowPicker 1.0.2 from Apple under 7.0.1. Now I upgraded to 7.1
and WindowPicker will not select a window, it switches to an application only.
Is there a newer version?

Christian


--
C.Kuss

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: avery@ccrma.stanford.edu  (Avery Wang)
Subject: Re: Apple Crippling Systems?!?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 10:11:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.051058.6554@mcs.drexel.edu> tjhendry@mcs.drexel.edu  
(Jonathan Hendry) writes:
<stuff deleted>
> The point is that, I believe, the floating point operations that WERE
> implemented don't work. In other words, Motorola makes an 040. They test
> it, and find that the floating-point operations are not "up to spec". So
> they sell it as the 680LC40 (or something to that effect) as an 040
> minus the floating point functions. You are correct about the 68040 and
> floating point operations. However Motorola does sell a low-cost 040.
> How else would they do that? The on-chip PMMU operations are more crucial 
> than FPU operations, I would think, so they would sell 040's without  
functional
> fpu operations.
> 
> Another way of looking at it is that on the 680LC40, ALL floating-point is  
done in software, and not just the trans. functions.

Oh.  This is the first I've heard of the 680LC40.  Now it makes sense why  
people were jumping all over me.  I thought the discussion was about the  
68040, the very same that we have in the NeXT and Quadras.  (But the call sign  
used above was 68040, I plead!)  But I don't understand why they would have  
problems building a '040 -- after all, they've been around for over a year!   
Are they trying to build a low-power version?  Otherwise it makes no sense at  
all.  It's hard to imagine a chip design failing for the FP operations being  
not "up to spec".  After all, it's not an analog circuit.  And digital logic  
is, by definition, up to spec. So it would have to be intentional, I surmise.  

> Remember, I'm not knocking the 040. Hell, I own a NeXT Cube 040, and it 
> doesn't suffer from not having a coprocessor. (After all, Postscript 
> coordinates are floats, and it runs pretty darn quick).

Well, the NeXT does suffer from not having a faster processor, in the sense  
that I would like 200MIPS instead of the current average of 25, and 3 MFLOPS  
(for a Turbo).

> In a nutshell, "crippled" doesn't refer to the 68040 itself, but to a less  
expensive verion of the 68040.
> 

OK, we all understand each other now!

-Avery
From: craig@ec.uwa.oz.au (Craig Richmond - division)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: laserwriter name?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 11:27:05 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: decel.ecel.uwa.edu.au

"norman danner" <ndanner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

>FP Spooler isn't running!  I remember playing around with this some time
>ago, so I probably did something maybe I shouldn't have.  I'm trying out
>a few tests with some new programs, and I'd like to establish some control--
>in particular, I want the Mac to think it is just using the regular 7.0
>laserwriter driver to make a postscript file.  I seem to remember that
>before I started playing around with FP Spooler, I never got any indication
>of a named printer being used.  Is there any way I can get back to this state?
>Thanks much!  By the way, I'm using an LC running Sys 7 tuned.

The mac remembers the last printer you selected.  This is so that if you go
to the chooser and your regular printer isn't there, it will still be
selected if it comes back next time you try to print.

Craig
--
Craig Richmond.  Computer Officer -  Dept of Economics (morning) 380 3860
  University of Western Australia    Dept of Education (afternoon)
craig@ecel.uwa.edu.au Dvorak Keyboards RULE!  "Messes are only acceptable
if users make them.  Applications aren't allowed this freedom" I.M.VI 2-4
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:19348 comp.sys.mac.apps:17376 rec.music.classical:16407 rec.music.folk:7939 rec.music.misc:27803 rec.music.synth:18642 comp.music:5275 rec.music.early:1604
From: sfr@praxis.co.uk (Stephen Rickaby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk,rec.music.misc,rec.music.synth,comp.music,rec.music.early
Subject: Music editor for Apple Mac
Summary: Recommendations wanted for Mac music editor
Keywords: Mac, music, editor, MIDI
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:52:23 GMT
Followup-To: sfr@praxis.co.uk
Organization: Praxis, Bath, U.K.

I am seeking recommendations for a music editor for the Apple Mac.

I need a program which will allow me to copy instrumental pieces from
sheet music, `play' them using the Mac to achieve *reasonable* fidelity,
do a bit of harmonisation, and then print them out.  This will be used as
both a learning and a composition tool.  No MIDI involvement is required,
at least at the moment, but it would be nice as an option for later.

There seem to be both fairly low-cost (ConcertWare +, Super Studio
Session) and very high-cost (Finale) applications which will fill these
roles.  What is the difference?  What won't the cheaper ones do which the
pricey ones will?  Personal experiences welcome.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Rickaby, Milldowns Cottage, Ladydowns       |    ,,,                     
Newmill, Penzance, Cornwall TR20 8XN              |  < O_O >                   
Tel: +44 736 796952  Fax: +44 736 796952          | ==( . )==                  
c/o sfr@praxis.co.uk                              |        Prrrouwf, Wackawacka
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cvadsadm@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Powerbook 145
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:03:06 GMT
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadsadm

In article <1992Nov18.044306.3361@mcs.drexel.edu>, uvdas@mcs.drexel.edu (Vinodh Das) writes:
> 
> I have not been paying attention to any discussions about the 
> Powerbook 145, but my university's price has finally caught
> my attention.  Before I dash out and purchase one, I have a
> few questions for all you Mac Gurus.  
> 
> 1.  Does a PB145 have a 68030 25 mhz with a 68882 co-processor.

no co-processor

> 2.  Is the screen size (actually the pixel density) equivalent
>     to that of a 12 or 13 inch monitor ?

12 inch ----512*384
13 inch ----640 * 480
145     ----640*400

> 3.  Is it easily (and inexpensively) upgradeable from 4 megs ->
>     8 megs ?

maybe $300

> 4.  Any reasons why I should not/should purchase a PB 145.
>

considering the price defference between 145 and 160 is only $300 while 160
give you grey scale monitor and video out(important to me), i suggest you to
buy a 160....or wait several month for 145 price to drop to reasonable lower
than 160. apple has backlog orders of 145, the price will not drop soon
 
> -Thanks
> Vinodh
> uvdas@mcs.drexel.edu
From: povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk (Povl H. Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: StarTrek Screen saver
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:52:15 GMT
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education

Berkeley System has announce a StarTrek screen saver. Has anybody seen 
it yet and can give some information ? Is it stand alone ? or is it plug-ins 
for After Dark ?
From: tmyers@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tim Myers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Change in Higher Education Marketing Plans?
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:53:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ohio University Telecommunications Center

I just heard a rumor today from the local Mac dealer in my area that
Apple may be reorganizing support for the higher education market.  It
seems that, in this area at least, support through local dealers may
be discontinued, with Apple servicing higher education markets directly.

Has anyone else heard something similar?  This may just be a problem
with this local dealer, but I wonder if it would affect university
bookstores and computer resellers.

Tim 

-- 
Tim Myers                      
Ohio University             tmyers@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc