HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pachinko Machines?
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:43:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug27.131420.11903@hubcap.clemson.edu>, daleg@hubcap.clemson.edu (Dale Geiger) writes:
> >Pachinko is Japanese pinball.

> While on the subject, what do these machines usually run for???

Good question.  I'd say between $50 and $100, from some I've seen in
antique/junque shops.  I just passed up a really interesting one for $75
in New Bern, NC, cuz it had sat in a wet basement and got some rust and
crud and rat turds.  Could be restored nicely, but I just didnt want
yet another project.  It had a little bowling alley entrance in the center.
Even had an American instruction booklet!  I still don't have one --
maybe when I find a clean one for $50.

I've seen a couple of others for more, like $90.
All pachinko machines were used in japanese commercial gamerooms,
and salvaged, refurbished (?) before shipping to US.

Not clear what will happen to pachinko prices.  THe Japanese don't
make the straight mechanical ones anymore (I've read), so the supply
is now finite.  On the other hand, you get bored with them pretty fast,
especially if the American variety of pinball lurks in the same room :-)
Rules are simple -- there are a few places that a ball can go in
and win you 15 payoff balls.  No "state" memory for building up
specials, or counters, etc.

At last Expo, a dealer had some newer types with lots of LEDs
and electronics for around $250.
-- 
"R-E-C-P-E-K-T -- that's what Quayle won't give to me!"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: Level question
Keywords: Gorgar, question
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:17:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.025733.11529@cbfsb.cb.att.com> yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.204643.1084@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen) writes:
>>
>>> 4) Related to #3 above, do the manufacturers (in this case Williams)
>>> produce a general maintenance manual?  I've got the schematics and
>>
>>Not since the EM days, I'm afraid.  All 3 or 4 makers put out
>>general theory and how-to books in the '50s.  Anyone hear of any since?
>>-- 
>Bally put out a general service manual in the 80's. A friend of mine has
>it. Its the same guy who has the Blackwater 100, so you might want to ask
>him about it Mike.
>
I've got two manuals.  They are

     Williams Pinball Troubleshooting & Reference Manual by James T. Hawes
        16-8955 April 21, 1986 (System 9 games)

     Bally Electronic Pinball Games Repair Procedures, Module & Component
        Replacement F.O. 560-1 July, 1978

I don't know if Williams sells these.  Does anybody else know?
-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@spiff.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: kwthomas@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Kevin W. Thomas)
Subject: Re: TAF- The Power
Originator: usenet@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:24:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory

In article <6=kn_5m@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>Oh- and during the seance, the idea is the same- from the left, up the bear-
>kick ramp, and from the right straight to thing. Trying to pass the ball
>with the power on will get it eaten, as will right flipper->chair shots,
>unless you send it straight in.

Seance is really easy, once you know how to play it.  If you can catch the
ball on the left flipper, you have it made.  To get some very quick points,
shoot the ball up the bearkick ramp for the first 5 million.  Do NOT try to
hit the ball into the swamp.  Instead, shake the machine a little so that
ball comes down into the "light 2 bearkicks" (or whatever is called) lane.
Shoot the ball up the bearkick ramp for 10 million.  This time, let it come 
down to the "light thing" lane.  Shoot it back up the bearkick ramp for 
15 million.  When the ball comes back, the machine will shoot the ball from 
the left flipper into the swamp for 5 million.  Since you have completed the 
seance sequence, the power is turned off.

	Kevin W. Thomas
	National Severe Storms Laboratory
	Norman, Oklahoma
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Subject: Re: Terminator 2 pinball machine for sale
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:29:33 GMT

I originally emailed this to Tom, but it bounced...

I thought that the most annoying part of Tom's post was that he said he was
selling his T2 to make room for a "new acquisition" but never told us what he
was getting!! :-)
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Older Pinball Machines (Was:A Hardware Question)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:18:01 GMT

Marc,

I'm posting this because mail bounces.

I'm looking for the later machines made by Rally, a French manufacturer
that went out of business in the early '70s.

Any help in locating these machines, including contacts with French
collectors and distributors, would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
       Heiner Biesel.

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: TAF problem
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:49:35 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In article <7bryktd@rpi.edu> xor@acm.rpi.edu (Joe Schwartz) writes:

   Also, the DiamondPlate has been starting to peel at the very bottom
   of the playfield, where the ball drains and gets kicked by the
   solenoid.  I haven't worried much about this one, because it's
   hidden from view.

I've seen the paint over one of the Mansion rooms peel on a TAF that
gets *heavy* use.  I guess the Diamond Plate in that area fell down on
the job; in general, though, it seems to be very effective.

(I still remember the sad sight of an unprotected BAD CATS -- no mylar
and no Diamond Plate -- that got completely ripped up due to heavy
play.  The lights on the lower portion of the playfield near the
flippers no longer had labels on them, so you just had different
colored lights and no idea why they were lit unless you had played the
game before the playfield went all to hell.  I'm glad they started
Diamond Plating every game in the factory and not leaving the
application of mylar up to the operators.)

--
    Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
    PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
                           |  
    Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pachinko Machines?
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:16:57 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In article <19867@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druwy.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:

   About $75.00 is the going rate (from what I have seen) for
   older (> 10 years old) pachinko games. The older machines
   do not have any electronics in them and are fully manual.
   The new machines are electronic so they play music can
   make the characters "dance". They also have a motor which
   fires the balls so you can put the machine on autofire
   and balls are spit out at about a rate of 2 per second.

Bleah.  I like the old-style pachinko games, where you have to flip
the handle for each shot, and there are no lights or dot-matrix
displays with dancing Mario Brothers.  On the other hand, I love the
new high-tech pins much more than I ever did the older electro-
mechanicals I played in my youth.  So I'm not a gaming Luddite or
anything...  :-)

   Pachinko technology has advanced in the last 10 years about
   the same as pinball technology has. Like pinball,
   the game's idea is the same, but the new machines 
   have a lot more features and are a lot more enjoyable to
   play.

Some people have suggested that THE SIMPSONS was actually based on
pachinko technology, what with all those balls draining out the sides
with such amazing speed and regularity...  :-)

--
    Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
    PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
                           |  
    Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman
From: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: DE origin
Date: 26 Aug 92 03:45:41 GMT
Reply-To: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix

iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:

> How do you relight the "Laser Kick" (kickback) by hitting the subways, as the
> display says???  I hit the subways, but neither the kickback nor the "Light
> Kickback" target is affected.

If you're talking about LW3, it's a Karate Kick, and the only way I've 
gotten it is through "What Leo Wants Leo GETS!"...  I'm not sure how to 
reliably get it, though.  (I'm not sure of how to reliably do much on 
this game.. <G> Espeically hit the darned multi-ball start hole!)

---
David Eison - Garfield           bbs-garfield@jwt.uucp
I'm not writing a message.  These words are just here to take up space.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein)
Subject: playfield layout (secrets of)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:25:23 GMT


Has anyone looked at a playfield a wondered if there were regular rules
for laying it out?  What I'm getting at is the machines are 
designed (so the manual says) to give a decent return to the arcade
operator.  Meaning that each player doesn't play too long or get many 
free balls or plays. So, you might think there is a time distribution
on how long  games last and in which the high majority are less then N 
minuets per game. To me this must be a function of the layout of the 
playfield. For example, when the ball hits a backfield thumper, there 
is a chance that it will shot directly down between the flippers. 
The designer could have altered the position of the thumpers so that
that condition never occurred so I assume the thumper placement wasn't
left up to chance. I have not done the analysis yet but I would guess
you'd find some interesting statistics if you traced various things like 
the n most  likely paths.

Another "feature" that's used to control game length is to use the balls
"english." If you look carefully at whats going on, you'll see the ball
is also rotating  around two axis in addition to moving across the playfield.
Metal posts and guide wires I think react only to the balls 
x-y motion (momentum) as opposed to things with friction like the flippers
that have a rubber band on them. If a device uses friction it can be used
to make very interesting shots like one does in handball by slicing the ball.
However, if the rubbers are used with the posts leading to a drain shot, they
increase the probability that the ball is going to head down the drain by 
translating some of the balls spin into its x-y motion. More often then not
this shoves the ball in the direction of the drain.  Usually, I get this 
with a weak shot off the fippers that slices the ball, sending it up a little
ways up and to  the side were there are two side channels  that either take 
the ball  back to the flippers or down the drain.  The weak shot puts spin
on the ball usually in a righthand direction, the rest is history.

Am I on the right track here or is the whole playfield layed out for its
aesthetics quality?

                     -H. 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Subject: Re: Terminator 2 pinball machine for sale
Reply-To: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 13:58:21 GMT


Sighhhh... I don't usually get into these things but ;^)

First of all a NEW T2 from New England Coin-op only went for $2995 a year and a 
half ago with a 1 year factory warranty against most everything and delivered.

Now you want $2500 with no delivery, no setup, no warranty and the post is
wayy to rude IMHO. I've sold over a dozen pins in the past year and never had to
be rude. I only show my machines to serious buyers, and anyone who is looking
for a free play made the ride for nothing 'cause they get sent home. Its their
quarter.

No excuse.

--
__

    |\/\/\/|                        Roger Patenaude
    |      |                        Pinball Pathologist
    |      |                        "Specializing in Autopsies of Dead Pins"
    | (.)(.)                       
    C      _)      /------------\  
    |  ,___|    ---| Don't Have |  
    |    /         | A Cow Man! |  
    /---\          \____________/ 
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: jerry@impmh.uucp (Jerry Sidman)
Subject: Re: Lethal Cows
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:17:10 GMT

In <920822325@tiny.com> sjsobol@tiny.com (Steven J. Sobol) writes:

>bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu writes:

>>|>Elton John - Pinball Wizard (Party Zone)

>AAACK! This is NOT Elton John's song... This is a cover (albeit a cool cover) 
>of the Who's song from the rock opera _Tommy_. (Which incidentally was 
>about an "idiot savant", like Dustin Hoffman's character in _Rain Man_, 
>whose one strength was playing pinball.)

>Which is not to say that Elton John's version is bad, it's actually quite
>interesting. I do like the original better.

>"Ever since I was a young boy
> I've played the silver balls
> From SoHo down to Bryden
> I must have played 'em all.
> I've never seen nothing like him
> In any amusement hall;
> That deaf, dumb and blind kid
> Sure plays a mean pinball."

>*--TechnoGeek--*

>-- 
>***  **  ** | The Tiny Software Co.  23707 Glenhill  Cleveland OH 44122
> *  *   *   | Steve Sobol * President * sjsobol@tiny.com or tiny!sjsobol 
> *   *  *   | Alternate addresses: sjsobol@wariat.org or ag510@po.cwru.edu
> *    * *   | Disclaimer: I *AM* the Tiny Software Company. 
> *  **   ** | **Welcome to Ohio, the Land of the Orange Construction Barrel**

Me thinks this should be "From SoHo down to Brighton". SoHo being the red light
district of London and Brighton a town on the south coast of England.

 

-- 
Jerry Sidman    IMP Consett    jerry@impmh.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: chupchup@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Robert Earl)
Subject: Re: LW3 - Just a note
Organization: (EVIL!)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:11:35 GMT

tek0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TOYOTA ERIC KOMATSU) writes:

| I was playing LW3 the other day when a funny thing happened.

Hmm, you were lucky.  I was playing LW3 just tonight, and what
happened to me was, the ball jumped up onto the scenery and nestled
above the saucer on the left side.  The game sat around waiting to
find the ball, did ball checks a few times, but the ball stayed put.
Then it told me "Missing 1 Pinball" and shot me a new ball.  Well,
that's fine, but when I got multiball, and knocked that ball clear
back into play, then lost two balls, guess what happened.  The
flippers went dead and I watched helplessly as my third ball sail past
them.

Well, guess Data East still makes stupid software.  Why do they shut
down the flippers when you lose a ball?  It doesn't make sense.



-- 
"If you've got a pig that likes jumping fences, | robert earl
you have to make its fence a lot higher all at  | rearl@ucsd.edu
once -- if you do it by increments, all you're  | rearl@piggy.ucsb.edu
doing is training a jumping pig." -Henry Spencer|
From: zweldron@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Matthew Charlap)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: TAF- The Power
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:25:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>The idea, with the Power, is to avoid rotten shots during that time.
>The Power is active in two situations: The Seance and Multiball.

>The secret to defeating the power is easy: Get it over with quickly.
[easy stuff removed]

When the power is on for multiball, or for seance and you do NOT want to try 
for the ramps, try to catch the ball on one of the flippers. After about 10
seconds (you can watch the status report if you want) the power will shut off
until you hit a target. In seance, the timer will stop at this point also. This
also makes for easy chair/vault shots when trying to get multiball. I've never 
caught all the balls in multiball, so I don't know if this can help get the 
ball(s) to thing and thus the upper right flipper for jackpot shots.

--Matthew

By the way, an interesting occurance happened this morning while playing the 
TAF on Busch Campus at RUtgers. The saucer for skill shots was weak on the 
kickout, 90% of the time the ball would fall back in. After a bit, the "where's
the ball sequence" goes through and Thing grabs the ball. Now here's the 
interesting part: Just before Thing grabbed it, the ball finally got kicked out
it went down to the lower-right flipper, where I shot it up the Bonus X lane.
Before Thing got back in the box, the ball shot by and got snagged by the 
magnet. It looked really neat.
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov (Orin Day)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Williams flippers
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:25:57 GMT
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <SBB.92Aug24222041@panix.com> sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)  
writes:
> I think they did them just right: good feel, good strong flips.  I
> certainly wouldn't want to go back to the flippers on DR. DUDE and
> PARTY ZONE which seemed constantly to need a tune-up in order to get
> the ball up those steep ramps.  In contrast, I've never had a problem
> getting the ball up the Bear Kicks ramp in TAF -- at least from the
> left flipper.

I agree completely - down at school they had a PZ and a Dr. Dude -
completely useless because you couldn't ride any of the ramps (where's
the fun it that, eh?).  Nobody really complained, they just got no play
and were sent off somwhere else, replaced by TAF and (aack) Hook.

Orin

> --
>     Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
>     PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
>                            |  
>     Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman

--
*** "If they're moderates, then I'm a champion speller!" - JDQ ***
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
****** "Think that this is NASA's opinion?   NO, NO, NO!!!" ******
From: sands@apple.com (Michael Sands)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: A Hardware Question
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:31:02 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.pinball
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc

In article <1992Aug23.154138.13347@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Aug22.223725.4578@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> dan@rat.csc.calpoly.edu (Dan Delany) writes:
> >Looking through _Lure Of The Silver Ball_, I noticed that many old pins had
> >what looks like a second plunger handle, located just below the main
> >plunger.  Can anybody shed some light on what this was?
> >
> >-- 
> >dan@rat.csc.calpoly.edu                                             Dan 

This extra handle was the original multi-ball injector...

The older style games had the number of balls in the machine that
constituted
a game, usually five balls.  These would rest in the bottom of the machine
and the player could view them through a window in the playfield. 

You put in your money and a solenoid would release the balls and they would
roll
into the holding trough.  The extra plunger was a ball lift and would bring
a ball from the holding trough to the shooting plunger.  You push one,
lifting
the ball, then you pull the top one, shooting the ball.

My son was 14 months old and was able to grasp this concept of push the
bottom and pull the top.  It was great to watch him play the old machines,
jumping up and down with excitment just to see the ball appear and then
get shot up and around the playfield!

Some of the really old games, like Rockola's World Series, had 15 balls and

would continue to recycle these until some logical thing happened, like you
got three outs (as in baseball...).

Michael
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Subject: SPACE SHUTTLE Problems?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:00:30 GMT

I've got my beat-up SPACE SHUTTLE set up in my garage,
and it's at least as much a blast to play as I remembered back in '85,
but there are some problems so weird that I need to ask if they
really are problems or just some deliberate randomness.

First let me admit that the CMOS RAM is shot -- fails diagnostic,
and you can't change the factory settings, and it can't remember high scores.
So maybe that affects these other things, but I doubt it.

(1) It often puts up two balls -- you shoot a ball, and it puts up another
right after.  Or puts up the 2nd on top of the 1st if you're slow
shooting.  Never happens on Ball 1 at start of game, just later.
I thought only late Ballys were this stupid :-)

(2) It doesn't always get excited when you lock a ball.  Usually
it makes a sound/light show, puts up another ball and says "Ready,
Pilot Two."  But when you lock the 2nd ball, no special effects at all,
just puts up another ball.  Is that normal?

(3) It should (?) say "Ready Pilot N" each time the Nth player is up,
but only sometimes does that.

(4) It often yells "Aaaaaughhhh!" when you're mixing it up in the bumpers
or go up that target ramp.  I thought this was only for when you
side-drained -- it often, but not always, yells for that.

I know there's something loose in the machine -- it sort of went to sleep
on me and my son last night, then woke up when I moved it across the garage floor
still turned on.  Do my symptoms above fit any pattern?  Diode shorts?

Oh yes, I'm missing the last page of the CPU Board schematic
(the one with the CMOS RAM on it, natch).  ANyone willing to
help me out?  Thanks, mike k.
-- 
"R-E-C-P-E-K-T -- that's what Quayle won't give to me!"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
From: jgy@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.g.young)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Pinball in Dallas?
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:04:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


Anyone point me to some decent pinball arcades in downtown Dallas?
I'll be there next week and it would be nice to find a decent TAF.
Thanks.