HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: roots-l@ndsuvm1.bitnet
X-VMS-To: ROOTLIST
X-VMS-Cc: JPENCE
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:39:06 -0600
Reply-To:     JIM BOB <JPENCE%ADMIN1@CARLETON.EDU>
From:         JIM BOB <JPENCE%ADMIN1@CARLETON.EDU>
Subject:      What is the ROOTS-L List and the LISTSERV ?
Comments: To: roots-l@ndsuvm1.bitnet

What is the ROOTS-L List and the LISTSERV ?

Are you REALLY new to the Genealogy Discussion on the NET?

Then read on !

We have had and will have several requests for "FAQ" help (frequently asked
questions) sent to the "List" and not the "Server".

If you are new at this, as I was, it can be very confusing and frustrating.

There are two (2) addresses that you MUST know the difference about.


        1.) The 1st Address:

            The mailing "LIST"   (one of these should work)

                                        ROOTS-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU   (for internet)
                                        ROOTS-L@NDSUVM1         (for bitnet)
                                        ROOTS-L@NDSUVM1.BITNET  (has worked
                                                                        for me)


                                this address reroutes your text discussions
                                to everyone "in the world", almost. If you
                                send ANYTHING here, it will be seen by
                                everyone on the Roots Mailing List (Roots-L)
                                Do NOT send Server COMMANDS here. (see next
                                paragraph)


        2.) The 2nd Address

            The file "SERVER"   (one of these should work)

                                        LISTSERV@VM1.NODAK.EDU  (for internet)
                                        LISTSERV@NDSUVM1        (for bitnet)
                                        LISTSERV@NDSUVM1.BITNET  (has worked
                                                                        for me)


                                this address is the computer, more or less
                                that keeps actual files of info in Fargo, ND.
                                When you send your COMMANDS for info to this
                                address you will get a reply from "a computer"
                                either giving you the info you requested or
                                error messages like "hey, you don't know
                                what you're doing




So, to summarize, if you want to "chat", send your mail to the LIST.
If you want to use the resources of the Roots-L (files) send your "commands"
to the SERVER.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: davidson@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: 1779 Westchester (NY) Tax List
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:10:44 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


In 1951, the _New York Historical Society Quarterly_ (V. 35, #3) published a
1763 list of the freeholders for Westchester county. It represents only a 
small fraction of the inhabitants (801 people) but is one of the few surviving
lists before the 1790 census.

My question:

The references list the other census, tax lists, etc. (very useful as it lists
_all_ the published returns)

There is reference to "the 1779 Tax List of the Co. of Westchester made
pursuant to an act of the Legislature of the State of New York passed 
Mar. 2, 1779".

As of 1951, at least, this list was described as a "Ms. in the N.Y. State 
Library, Albany, N.Y.; information courtsey of Miss Edna L. Jacobsen".

Where is this list now? Has it been microfilmed (by whom, what is the 
reference) or published? 

A more recent reference would be greatly appreciaited!

Jonathan Davidson

DAVIDSON@AC.DAL.CA
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Canada


Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: WELK (as in Lawrence)
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:06:39 GMT

lukeh@math.rutgers.edu (Luke Higgins) writes:


>	I have come to find out that I am related to Lawrence WELK.
>I've been told that he was my grandmother's first cousin.  I don't
>have the names of any of our common ancestors. Does anyone know the
>names of Lawrence WELK's grandparents? Any information pointing me
>in the right direction would be very helpful!  Thanks!

If I'm not mistaken the Welks were Germans from Russia. There should be plenty 
of information available about his background.

fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:52:34 MST
Reply-To:     John Spencer <jrs@HPESJRS.FC.HP.COM>
From:         John Spencer <jrs@HPESJRS.FC.HP.COM>
Subject:      Correction on Gindorfs
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.NoDak.edu

The Gindorf family was located near Bellville, TX and Sealy, TX in Austin
county, not Stephenville are reported earlier.

Any information on GINDORF would be appreciated,
--

  ___                    _ __       ()
 (   >      /           ' )  )      /\
  __/______/_  ____      /--'      /  )  _   _  ____  _. _  __
 / /  (_) / /_/ / <_    /  \ o    /__/__/_)_</_/ / <_(__</_/ (_
<_/                                    /
                                      '
John R. Spencer  (jrs@fc.HP.COM, (303) 229-3271)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: Battle of Gaines Mill, American Civil War
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:12:49 GMT

In article <9301111612.AA25883@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> "Mike Holland Digital Equip. Corp. Colorado Springs, Co. 11-Jan-1993 0907" <holland@CX3COM.ENET.DEC.COM> writes:
>In researching the family surname JACOBS, I have come across a
>John A. JACOBS that was killed in 1862 during a battle at Gaines
>Mill, he was in the 9th Alabama Infantry CSA.
>
>Are there any American Civil War buffs out there that can tell me
>where/when this battle was fought.

Gaines Mill was one of the Seven Days' Battles, fought in late June, 1862.
The battlefield is located just west of Richmond, Virginia.  I visited
there a couple of months ago, and in spite of the encroaching city, you
can still get a pretty good feel for what happened there.
--Chuck
-- 
D'Angelo Law Library         "The dogmas of the quiet past are
cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu      inadequate to the stormy present. . .
uclcjt1@uchimvs1              We must disenthrall ourselves. . ."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:39:48 EST
Reply-To:     David_L._Carson@MTS.RPI.EDU
From:         David_L._Carson@MTS.RPI.EDU
Subject:      Illegal Church Marriages
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

In this country preachers are usually licensed by the state or county to issue
certifications of marriage--except in some cases.

Mennonite ministers in PA traditionally held no such license.  That is why
many Mennonites also got married in civil ceremonies or in services in other
churches.

Are there other denominations which have experienced the same problem?

Cheers!

David L. Carson
userGP45@mts.rpi.edu
carsod@aix.rpi.edu
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Subject: Virginia genealogies (Payne, etc.)
Originator: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:14:40 GMT

Yesterday I posted a note about the PAYNE family genealogy.  Here is
one source:
Louise Pecquet du Bellet, _Some Prominent Virginia Families_
(Baltimore, 1976).
-------
Seeking ACTON, BAILEY, BALL, BEALE, BEAUMAN (BEAUMIER), BILLINGTON,
BOBO, BRAKE, BRITTAIN (BRITTON), CALVERT, COLSTON, CORGAN (CORRIGAN),
EVERENDEN (EVERDEN, EVENDEN, EVERNDON), FERREE (FERIE, FIERRE, FIRE,
FIERE), GRIFFIN, HARM, HARWAR, HEWITT, KENNERLY, LEATHERWOOD, LEE,
LEFEVRE, McCARTY, McQUEAD, MUCH, MURFIN, MUSGROVE, PILGRIM (PILGRAM),
POPE, SAUERWEIN, SONTAG, TARRANT, TAVERNER, TERRY, UNDERWOOD,
WAREMBOUR (de WARENBUR), WEGMAN, WOODRUFF, YERBY.



-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor		|E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU
CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd.	|Phone: (415) 321-2052
Stanford, CA  94305		|Fax: (415) 321-1192
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Counting Chromosomes
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:08:46 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <1993Jan13.045620.20169@cbnews.cb.att.com> jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:

>>It looks as if Arlo Gutherie didn't inherit his father's fatal gene..
>
>I hadn't heard that he got the test -- that is great news.

DOn't think he has. People are reluctant... but is now old enough and
(I believe) sympton free.

>There was
>a recent story about a possible cure for a hereditary lung disease,
>cystic fibrosis, involving piggybacking the necessary gene on a
>cold virus that had been genetically altered so it could not reproduce.
>The way I understood it, the virus infects lung cells, splices it's
>own DNA and the piggybacked gene into the cells' DNA as viruses are wont
>to do, only now the the cells have a copy of the gene that they
>formerly lacked.

Now that we have invented gene splicing, we are going to discover (and
we already have) that nature invented it first...

So that information sharing in genetics is going to take some interesting
turns in the future when we discover just how that works.

In bacteria, plastids carry the news. These are little genetic bodies
that are shared among bacteria, so that when one strain discovers a
means of becoming penicillin resistent it can pass it on to other
quite distant strains...

I wonder what chicken pox virus carries?

Tom
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Battle of Gaines Mill, American Civil War
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:29:21 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <9301111612.AA25883@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> "Mike Holland Digital Equip. Corp. Colorado Springs, Co. 11-Jan-1993 0907" <holland@CX3COM.ENET.DEC.COM> writes:
>In researching the family surname JACOBS, I have come across a
>John A. JACOBS that was killed in 1862 during a battle at Gaines
>Mill, he was in the 9th Alabama Infantry CSA.
>
>Are there any American Civil War buffs out there that can tell me
>where/when this battle was fought.

27 Jun 1862
Cold Harbor; Chickahominy
Third of the Seven Days' Battles, Peninsular Campaign.
Lee going after Porter's Corps... failed in his objective
Feds: 893 killed
Rebs: 8,751

Porter, isolated, was forced to retreat despite support from
Slocum's division.. but the withdrawal was orderly.


TOm
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  JNET%"roots-l@ndsuvm1.bitnet"
Original_cc:  WRP5404
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:03:00 CST
Reply-To:     Bill Page <WRP5404@TAMRIGEL.BITNET>
From:         Bill Page <WRP5404@TAMRIGEL.BITNET>
Subject:      Birth Records in Texas

The query about birth records in Texas made me realize I should
pass on the following:

Texas (probably like other states) has a provision for recording
births after they occurred.  Sometimes births are recorded years
after they occur.  Even though Texas started recording births in
1903, it's fairly common to find birth certificates dating back
to the early 1880s (and sometimes earlier).

Some births which occurred in other states are registered in
Texas.  My grandmother, Norma Belew, was born in Lauderdale Co.,
Ala., in the 1880s; her birth certificate is on file in Ellis
Co., Texas.  My brother-in-law's ancestor, Alfred Estlack, was
born in New Mexico; his certificate is in Donley Co., Texas.

Obviously, the information on such certificates often contains
errors.  Still, I'd advise anyone looking for birth certificates
to check not only the state where the person was born, but also
any states they later lived in, especially if they were of an age
where they would have needed birth certificates for Social
Security or war-related purposes.

As an aside, some of the oldest Texas birth certificates
sometimes include nifty (and unexpected) information, such as the
military service of the father ... I've seen this written on the
back of certificates at the county courthouse, and I'm not sure
whether the information was duplicated on the copies of the
certificates which were sent to the state offices.  My experience
has been that if you ask for a copy of the birth certificate, all
they routinely provide is the front side.

Bill Page
Microtext Dept.
Sterling C. Evans Library
Texas A&M University
College Station, Texas 77843
From: alan@essex.ac.uk [Alan M Stanier]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: England Q: recording shire
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:00:45 GMT
Reply-To: alan@essex.ac.uk
Organization: British Mistletoe Testers Group

Also sprach hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)
}In article <ROOTS-L%93010404081444@VM1.NODAK.EDU> MFITZGIB <M.Fitzgibbons@SHEFFIELD-HALLAM.AC.UK> writes:
}>Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:04:00 LCL
}>
}>There are many counties in the UK with the name ending in shire, but not
}>all counties are the same.
}>e.g.:-  Yorkshire  Derbyshire.  A county without a shire ending would be
}>Avon for instance.
}
}Before 1974 Durham was the only English county that was not a shire.

Sorry, but I do not understand this statement. Please explain.

If you mean that Durham was the only pre-1974 county whose name did
not end "shire", then you are wrong: Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Kent,
Cumberland, Westmorland, Northumberland and Middlesex spring immediately
to mind. I suspect there are other counter-examples. Oh yes, Cornwall.


--
  Alan M Stanier   | Alan Michael, son of Roger William, son of William Edwin,
 alan@essex.ac.uk  | son of William John, son of William, son of John, son of
tel +44 206 872153 | William ... (research still in progress)
From: rcw@sei.cmu.edu (Ray Williams)
Subject: TALIAFERRO/TALIFARO/TOLLIVER
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:12:32 EST

I am interested in the family name "Taliaferro" in a somewhat general sense.
I have an female ancestor listed as "Talifaro" in the genealogies handed down
to me, with no information on her birth other than the notation "Italian".  My
family remembers other family members (long since dead) speaking of "an
Italian woman" in our ancestry, and presumably they meant her.

My sister (a mere 11 years older than I) laughs at this, saying it is all a
huge misunderstanding, an incorrect inference by the family a couple of
generations back (for whom this "Talifaro" would have been just a name, not a
person they knew personally), because of the name itself.  In fact, she says,
TALIAFERRO is proud and an ancient English name, being the name conferred by a
Roman emperor ("Iron something"--spear?, in Latin) on a major officer of his in
England.  She seems to remember a story about why the name was given, but it
sounded a bit speculative to me.  She says she's known other TALIAFERROs in
her lifetime, and they invariably pronounce the name "Tolliver".  I myself
remember, in the dim past, a player named "Taliaferro" pronounced "Tolliver"
who played for the Baltimore Colts (or some other NFL team) and that the TV
announcers would make a point of the difference between the spelling and
pronunciation.

So, anyway, she says the idea of a person who was *really* Italian being named
"Talifaro" or "Taliaferro" is absurd.  I'm not convinced, one way or the
other.

I've checked the surnames list without luck for anyone researching this name,
and I do not recall the name coming up on soc.roots postings in the past year.
I did a quick, unscientific search in the white pages of telephone directories
that were handy (Greater Pittsburgh, San Diego, Seattle, Philadelphia, Denver
Chicago, and Miami), and found the following:

  1) There were TALIAFERROs listed in every city but Miami.

  2) There was one TALIAFERO listing (in Pittsburgh).

  3) No TALIFAROs anywhere...

  4) But, there were more TOLIVERs and TOLLIVERs than TALIAFERROs in every 
     city, with TOLIVER appearing to be the predominant spelling.

Of course, I can't tell how all these TALIAFERROs pronounce their names, or
where their names came from, historically.

Anyone have any insights to offer me?  Thanks in advance.

                  --Ray Williams  rcw@sei.cmu.edu
                    Software Engineering Institute
                    Carnegie Mellon University
                    Pittsburgh, PA  15213

Researching: WILLIAMS (Tenn>Wis>Kans>Ark), DUNCAN (Ind>Wis>Kans),
BRINLEY (Eng>Kans>Ark), SCHERER (Ger>Detroit, Mich), MALEDON (Ger>Detroit)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:48:39 EST
Reply-To:     Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
From:         Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
Subject:      Microfilm question
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU

OK - this is probably a simple question, but I am currently stumped.

I have a few names of some books I would like to get from the National
Archives (in microfilm form), and I know that some of them are actually
available.  How do I determine the reel numbers?
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: HENKLE
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:46:36 GMT

DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET writes:

>     Jean-Paul's creativity in searching for HENKEL as well as HENKLE
>reminds me that another "Pennsylvania Dutch" spelling variant is HINKLE,
>and that the word means "little hen" or "little chicken."  The -el
>ending is a diminutive in Southern Germany, and the word in Hochdeutsch
>is Huehnchen.

Hu"hnchen is but a little Huhn. Henne is the word for the full grown variety of 
hen. These last two words are obviously from old Anglo-Saxon roots. It is 
words such as these which had to do with everyday life, brot-bread, 
wasser-water, maus-mouse, haus-house etc etc that are still pretty much the 
same. I'm not sure how rooster got into the fray instead of Hahn the male of 
Huhn or Henne.

Enough chicken talk. Henkel as a word is also a 'handle' and probably is 
connected there more than the chicken parts are. And of course, we have 
Henkel-Trocken, the German excuse for dry champagne or Sekt.

And what does all this have to do with genealogy? Well, Henkelohren are a 
possible connection: do any Henkels have their ears flapping in the wind?

Fred

PS A hell of a way to start 1993 
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <SYSMGR@cbos.uc.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:47:00 -0800
Reply-To:     SYSMGR@CBOS.UC.EDU
From:         SYSMGR@CBOS.UC.EDU
Subject:      Recipient mailbox is full. Returning message to sender
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

I just discovered that the farm on which my mother was born was a land grant
to her grandfather.  A friend here in Indianapolis has a mill that is
located on land grant property.  The city wants the land for development
and offered to buy it at their price.  When the first offer was refused,
thank you, the city went away saying that they would condemn the property
and take it by eminent domain.  Once the city discovered it was a land
grant, it returned with hat in hand wanting to reach some kind of reasonable
compromise.  (There is more to a sale than money.)

My question is, how is a land grant different from other property transactions?
Does a land grant pass from the seller to the purchaser, always?  What is
a good book to read on the subject?  Is there anything special I should
watch for if I decide to purchase the farm?

The old brick house on the farm, it is said, was built from brick from a
Catholic church tower.  The house was built about 1780.  This is where my
mother was born.  It is no longer used as a residence but is well maintained
and could be saved and remodeled into a retirement home where I can continue
my genealogy!

|======================================================================|
|  DICK HAROLD    *   HARROLD@INDYCMS.BITNET  *   IUPUI INDIANAPOLIS   |
|                *  HARROLD@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU  *                       |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -|
|                 ALL I WANT IS PEACE AND QUIET.                       |
|======================================================================|
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:26:27 CST
Reply-To:     Brad Green <green@PLAINS.NODAK.EDU>
From:         Brad Green <green@PLAINS.NODAK.EDU>
Subject:      To Rik Vigeland
Comments: To: Genealogy Discussion List <ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.Edu>

Rik,
I've tried several times to contact you, but get error messages.  has
any of my mail gotten through to you.  I'm looking for info about
Randolph County, NC.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Bill Green   Minot, North Dakota   |      Home of the H0STFEST     |
|        green@plains.nodak.edu        |Forget the "Brad", it's really |
|     ak385@cleveland.freenet.edu      |             BILL              |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| RESEARCHING:  Stanley  IA/KS  1871-       Cook  IA/KS  1850-         |
|               Brown  MA/KS  1579-         Mason NY/IA  1800-         |
|               Lamb   NC/KS  1851-         Maxwell  NY  1800-         |
|               Wilson IN/IL  1871-         Hediger -  Swiss           |
| Anhorn - Kotchian - Kohoutek - Havlena - Marschall (E. Europe)       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"ROOTS-L@vm1.NoDak.Edu"
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:06:00 EST
Reply-To:     JMFREED@CC.OWU.EDU
From:         JMFREED@CC.OWU.EDU
Subject:      Indian Territory, not Louisiana
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@vm1.NoDak.Edu

Debbie Adams inquired as to whether or not the current discussion of
Indian Territory included any of Louisiana.  It does not.  Indian Territory
as being discussed now includes what is now the state of Oklahoma.  At
one time all of the present state of Oklahoma (except for the Panhandle)
was Indian territory.  It later was divided into Indian Territory (eastern
portion) and Oklahoma Territory (western portion).  These remained separate
territories until nearly statehood in 1907; at  one time, however, both
were considering applying for statehood.  However, in the minds of many
people some confusion still remains.  As a native Oklahoman, I still
see obituaries indicating that the deceased was born in "Indian
Territory", when in fact, being born in the western part, they were born
In Oklahoma Territory.  (My parents were both born in O.T. not I.T., for
example.)    Thanks for raising the question, Debbie.
Jim Freed, Delaware, OH
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Saturday, 9 Jan 1993 22:23:06 EST
From: Matt Adair <MLADAIR@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: CD/ROM,DOS/MAC, FHC

I use a program called Access PC.  It allows you to mount DOS
disks on the Mac if you have a FDHD or one of the new SuperDrives.

The disk will appear just like a normal floppy icon and you can
manipulate files on the disk in the normal way.  For using GEDCOM,
I just pop the disk in, copy the file to my hard-drive and import
it into Personal Ancestral File.  I don't even have to bother with
using Apple File Exchange, which I think is a real pain.

On a side note, not all Family History Centers us true IBM's, the one
I go to uses and IBM compatible Epson comp.

Matt Adair    mladair@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU