HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Templars not Masons <was: Re: Who/what is Baphomet?>
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 20:34:07 GMT

Murray Altheim writes:
> Ciaran Benson writes:
> >> Murray Altheim writes:
> >> The prefix "Free" was added in the middle ages when Bubba ben
> >> Gazoomie (not actually related to Joseph ben Gazoomie, as he had changed 
> >> his name) started a blood and carrot cult ...
> >
> >  Murray, you Fool !! That secret wasn't to be revealed until
> >the thirty-seventh revolution of the *censured*, in the time of
> >the fourty-second house of *censured* !!
> >
> >  Now EVERYONE will want to join !!
> 
> Ciaran, as a member of the Order of the Sacred Flying Hoods, you of all 
people
> should know that th# aaaaaaahhhhhh (sounds of Freemasonic hands on throat)
> 
> Number 9. Number 9. Number 9.

  Oh, Murray.

  I certainly hope that no one is thinking of flaming you for
that, and that no one's flamed you over eMail, but it seems you
must not have received the third mailing last month (your
dues are paid up, aren't they?)

  In the Bytumberate section, after the very interesting
editorial on the, ahem, *problems* with the east coast temple,
there was about three columns on this, and I think they were
very clear.

  Of course, I may have misunderstood.

  Being a HighThingy of the Sacred Flying Hoods, we have our
own priorities, of course, and I may have misinterpreted.

  Still, do you think it's wise?

  I mean, change and all that ...

  Many Blessings (5=8+74 ... yes, folks -- 74 !!! Bwahahaha) Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:21:27 GMT
Keywords: do it thineself

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

>corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

>>I must really be uninformed. I have understood that the whole God/Goddess
>>thing stemmed from our very early experiments with religion, and, at least
>>in the Celtic traditions, there was a clear definition between the Horned
>>God and the Goddess (don't know about Her horns and don't want to offend

>Actually, the duo-theism in Wicca (and lots of derived neo-paganism) is a 
>modern construct.  Their are certainly exapmles of Horned Gods in Celtic 
>cultures and lots of Goddesses, but there was no structured pair who were the
>core of the religion.  Neo-paganism has ancient roots, but the form of the fruit
>is very modern.

Oh, I should add that some Witches, including myself, are moving more and more
to a penta-theism rather than a duo-theism.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D. Hurley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Emergence
Date: 16 Sep 1992 00:30:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Okay, I'm going to give something a try, and *please* don't send
flames my way, any offense that I might cause is purely 
unintentional.

Right, now that I've got that out of the way let me tell you why
I'll be posting here occasionally henceforth, and the kind of
information that I'm looking for.  Here it goes . . .

Last year I attempted to make some basic queries about the 
nature of the 'mythos' used by this news group, and suffered
some severe backlash.  I'll be asking the same, or similar
questions this year, but please bear in mind, I'm not seeking to
offend anyone or proselytize.  My personal philosiphy is
that of an agnostic secular humanist, so note that in no way will
I be attempting to preach in favor of any religion, so please
return the favor.

Okay, try it again.  I am a dual-major here at college, a
combination of History and English after an abortive try at
Physics.  My intended area of focus within my History major is
Europe, and most specifically, ancient Britain.  Since I will be
attempting to understand the thought processes and traditions of
those people, I thought that here would be the best place to post.

So, does anyone have any *concise* information about said topic
that he or she would like to share with me?

Thanks Ahead

Scott
-- 
"You've changed the past Louise, and you know Damn Well we can't
 change the past--we change with it!" - - Coventry in 'Millenium'
"In any universe where time travel is possible . . . eventually
 there will arise a history without time travel." --Larry Niven
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.atheism,alt.mythology
From: trd54583@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (green spleen... )
Subject: Re: Metaphorical paganism
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:33:19 GMT

John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Anyone else out there in paganland consider themselves a "metaphorical
>pagan?"  I don't believe in supernatural deities, but I'm in love with
>nature and mythology.  I've been "worshipping" nature gods through
>rituals for some 20 years now--not because I believe in the magickal
>efficacy of the rituals, but rather for the feeling of connectedness
>to nature and to human prehistory.
>----------------
>John A. Johnson  (j5j@psuvm.psu.edu)
>Metaphorical Pagan
>Penn State is not responsible for my behavior.
>Neither do I take the blame for Penn State.

Hmm...I tend to see the gods as certain aspects of the collective force/
spirit of nature. This collective spirit is what I call Great Spirit.
Mythology is neat and I, as well, like it. I geuss sometimes it's easier
to use personification rather than just thinking of 'nature' as some 'thing'
(for lack of a better word)
As to your other point, I think that the connectedness you feel to nature
and human prehistory is indeed magick (since magick itself is a vague term)

	Tom, the utterly confused and kinda bummed out.......
-- 
 All opinions endorsed by the University  | These colors don't fade or run...
 of Illinois, US government, and the UN   | ...but they burn pretty well  -me
******Conformity is the jailor of freedom and the enemy of growth -JFK******
-Tom Dobrowolsky - LunarWolf - GreenSpleen@uiuc.edu - placki ziemniaczane -
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Favorite Bible Verses
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:17:33 GMT
Summary: suspicion

In article <12SEP199214334977@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu
(Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

> Well that depends on your point of view.  However I have met
> *VERY* *FEW* christians that even know that Constantine had
> anything to do with it!

No.  You have met very few of the sort of people who beat you
over the head with their "Christianity" who are not ignorant.
So?
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: On Power
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:26:33 GMT

In article <79665@ut-emx.uucp> evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:
>Yes, it's the Ronco Dogmatic. It makes perfect wienerwurst every time. :)

My dog is always barking, but doesn't he remind you of Toto?

>>But I do have the book for you, it's
>>called The Prince by Machiavelli, Mentor PB. 

>Thank you for the book recommendation. By reading the book, I can only 
>hope to learn as much about the true nature of power as you did. 

Somehow I suspect you will learn more, just remember the little people
that helped you out, perhaps you can put in a good word for us?

>I will put the book on my reading list right after Mahatma Gandhi's 
>*Democracy: Real and Deceptive*.

Ah, another good book. We tend to think of Gandhi as that cute little
old man who made his own clothes from raw cotton, but you don't stop the
entire British government by being cute. I'm quite sure that he read The
Prince. But, of course we know that his approaches aren't all that
effective anymore, we just don't have the involved public we once had,
Malcolm X would be the current technique, of course he was shot dead
also. It is so hard to do the right thing, isn't it?

>>Someone with your attitude needs this book.
>>So if you want POWER, there is THE recipe. If you are interested in what
>>and how our government is doing to you and how you are being manipulated
>>by our supposed democracy, the best government that money can buy, this
>>book will tell you all. There is the power, but you must remember that
>>it is your obligation to do the right thing.

>I am touched by your concern about my psychological condition, your
>wanting to help me seek POWER, and your wish to educate me about the true
>nature of government. 

Yeah, well there's a time for building castles and a time for burning
castles. But, KRS-One, Knowledge Reigns Supreme Over nearly everyone.
Sucka mc's duck, duck down!

>With your help I am truly blessed.   :)

We don't need no water, let it burn-yo, burn-yo, we don't need no water
let it burn, so it burned. Fiddle-fee, fiddle-fie, fiddle-foe,
fiddle-fum, I smell the blood of an English ... muffin, huffin' an
puffin', sellin' his soul, j-e-l-l-o, ya know?   ::::::::B^}
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Favorite Bible Verses
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:13:00 GMT

>Converting Constantine didn't hurt either :^).

True.....

Tammy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Amerindian board (was Re: How many....)
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:16:01 GMT

In article <10SEP199219252326@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark 
Blandino) writes:
> >  From the Amerindian board ...
> > 
> >  How many reconstructionist traditionalists does it take to change
> >a light bulb?
> > 
> >  None.  When it is dark out, that is because it is night.
> >Go to bed.
> 
> Amerindian board?  What's it's name?  I'd like to take a look.
> 
> Tammy


   alt.native

   Ciaran (with a tag-along HP 3000/series I, II, III, and even
IV JCL smasher-crasher SYSFAIL 311 job as a sig. 'cause that's
who I was posting to last & didn't get a chance to change it
before I got here ...)

-------------------------------------------------------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org               Not a spokesbeing for LM

!JOB SIGJOB,mgr/pawsoff.telesup;pri=BS;hipri;outclass=,11
!STREAM SIGJOB/hardihar.pub.manman
!TELLOP '7 Bwahahahahaha >cough< *wheeze* heh, heh, heh
!EOJ
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: arumble@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Anthony Rumble)
Subject: Re: Hazel Eyes
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:01:57 GMT

amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:


>Has anyone else heard anything relating to the amount of gold/white in
>people's irises?  I've been told that studies have been done in which
>the subjects exhibiting the strongest psychic abilities had gold or
>white marks in their irises (or in some cases, pure amber eyes).

>I'd like to know if anyone else has heard of this even if I didn't
>have white-gold streaks in my irises... :)

I had heard that Green Eyes were special in some way..
Can't remember tho..

-- 
Anthony Rumble
aka SmilieZ
"Anything is possible.. If there is enuf money in it"
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: free lionfood! (was: Celtic Cross)
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:45:33 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Sep1.015904.11214@latcs1.lat.oz.au> burns@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Jonathan Burns) writes:
>
>Hang on dere, man. You mean there are _pre-Christian_ British crosses?
>WHERE? I presume we're talking about a distinct quartered-circle design,
>here, not a triskele or swastika.
>

Just thinking offhand, the quartered circle is both pre-Christian and
pan-cultural.  No refs here right now, of course, but I'll look through
my stuff and find any specific British ones.

B*B
	- Leigh Ann


Leigh Ann Hussey 		leighann@sybase.com
CoG #151E
"Take no scorn to wear the Horn; it was the Crest when you were born!"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:05:00 GMT


...Morgan's post deleted...

here, here

kudos!!!


I think that after women have explored women's mysteries
and men have explored men's mysteries we are going to find
that we are all the same in only different ways.  Both
mysteries are *OUR* mysteries together.

Men's Mysteries + Women's Mysteries = LIFE

Blessed Be Everybody

Tammy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.individualism
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: Libertarians, guns, etc. 
Followup-To: alt.individualism
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:26:38 GMT

In <1992Sep14.010444.11220@news.stolaf.edu> adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brynach ap Adda) writes:

>to buy one's freedom or be ransomed by another. Upward mobility existed
>between the farmers and the warriors as well. There was privilege, and
>doubtless abuse of privilege as well, but there was also the recognition
>that all elements of the society were necessary. I doubt they would have
>withheld the basic necessities of life to anyone, simply because "you
>have to pay for these things."

Neither would I, or any other libertarian.  I think you'll actually find
that libertarians are *more* generous with their money, not less.  But
the essential point of libertarianism is whether a person has the right
to force another person to be generous with their money.  

>resister and sending the money to charities instead. But I'm not going
>to let my desire to control capital, possess weapons designed to kill
>people or even practice my religion in peace (not that I think the 
>Libertarians could do more to ensure religious freedom than, say, the
>Democrats) translate into support for a party that says government has no
>business helping anyone. What the hell is it supposed to be for?
>What the hell are *we* supposed to be for?

What is the government for?  To protect natural rights, i.e., against
violence, and against fraud, and to adjudicate disputes.  What are we
for?  To do whatever we want, if it does not harm others.  Ideally, to
help others in time of need, to treat everyone fairly and equally,
and to support causes and movements we agree with.

>Maybe Libertarians really are very generous people. Maybe they just
>can't stand the idea of their money being used to buy food for people
>who might be racist, religiously intolerant, rude, boring, bad-smelling
>or devoid of good taste, just because they're people and people 
>deserve to be treated well.

No, not really.  I contribute money every chance I get to those who need
it.  I make no value judgments.  But I don't like money being stolen from me.

>Or maybe they have so little faith in
>the ability of governments to provide services with any efficiency
>at all that they think we ought to stop trying, and let private
>efforts replace these governmental functions.

Dead right.  Compare the welfare system with, say, United Way, or almost
any church group, and tell me which provides more for less money.  Followups
to alt.individualism.



-- 
ben                                     fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

"A tight bunch of bastards who want to win while loving each other"
- Dave Hasbrook, about the Indiana Ultimate team
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: How many ______ does it take to change a light bulb?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:39:54 GMT

In article <2AA9B794.27993@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>How many Taoists does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>The light bulb that can be changed is not the true light bulb.
>
>Blessings,
>Janis 

I heard a different ending to that one.

Two, one to change the lightbulb and one to not change the lightbulb.

How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?

Fish.

Bb,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |      But what if this hadn't been
  Dark Horde by birth   |        a rhetorical question?
    Moritu by choice    |                            C. Nelson
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: How many ______ does it take to change a light bulb?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:35:50 GMT

In article <003mqB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:
>How many Gardnerians does it take to change a light bulb?
>   I can't tell you. It is a deep dark secret!
>   
>How many Family Traditionalists does it take to change a light bulb?
>   None. If oil lamps were good enough for Grandma they are good enough for us!
>   
>got any more? This is the thread for 'em!
>:) Maybe this should be crossposted to to rec.humor...

How about this:

How many Pagans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Four.

One to actually change the bulb.  One to tell you you're doing wrong
according to Gardener, one to tell you you're doing it wrong according to
Sanders and one to tell you you're doing it wrong according to Crowely.

Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Favorite Bible Verses
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:51:09 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Let me recommend once again Morton Smith's _Jesus the Magician_ -- the author
was a top-drawer specialist in Early Christianity and in the Judaism of the
same period.  He shows by very strong arguments that Jesus, if he existed at
all (Smith thinks he did) and is somewhat gettable-at by scholarship (Smith
thinks he is) and was not actually an incarnate god (Smith thinks he wasn't,
because Smith thinks there are no gods or spirits), was in fact a wandering
Jewish magician with some Egyptian connections who attempted to found his own
magical, initiatory movement, which subsequent historical developments con-
verted (double meaning intentional) into the Chritsian Church as we know it.
The impression of an ethical teacher which we get from a reading of the four
gospels is, according to Smith, a later accretion on Chirstianity, like the
four gospels themselves.
Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
From: eburke@aludra.usc.edu (Kethry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: books for new pagans
Date: 9 Sep 1992 09:42:21 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


Lucky you that you can soften your parents up with books.  I just started
learning the Craft a couple of months ago, although I have been interested
in it for years.  I have lots of fiction books that could soften them up
if they were responsive (Mercedes Lackey's books about Valdemar and such 
are good ones, although I'm not so sure about her Diana Tregarde novels).
The DT novels are good to read and my parents loved them, but that doesn't
change their attitude.  I slipped and said something about why I've been
burning yellow candles (another long story for later), and they decided that
no one is allowed to burn candles in the house.  They also told my sister
that while they don't care who believes what in the house, they wil not 
allow the practice of any religion other than X-ianity in the house.  They
won't come to me directly about it (I think they're afraid of me, although
I don't give them any reason to be nor will they come and ask me about anything
they are basing their actions on there own suspicions.)  The reason they
went to my sister is because she did a school project on Satanism, although
she is not interested in it as a religion........Also, they knew that she
would come directly to me thereby avoiding a confrontation....

Bright Blessings,
Kethry
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New pagans and reading
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:50:41 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

>>I've found, however, that Starhawk's _Truth or Dare_ seems to be a 
>>retelling of _Sprial Dance_, sort of a _Spiral Dance_ version 2. In
>>it, Starhawk shows a greater balance in diety, and a greater maturity
>>of vision of what paganism is for her. I'm not denigrating _Spiral
>>Dance_, I still consider it a useful book, and I'm glad I read it. But
>>when I'm presenting my beliefs to a novice, I think _Truth or Dare_
>>does a better job. 
>Thanks Chuck, I'll take a look at it.  

>I must agree with you that the key, for me any way, in paganism
>is duality. (I'm a Libra, a typical Libra)  I mentioned Spiral
>Dance because it seems to be everybody's beginning book.
>In the future (after I read it of course) I will probably add
>this book to my standard list.

I don't see how _The Spiral Dance_ is non-dual.  There is a chapter on the 
Goddess and a chapter on the God.  If anything, I find it too dual.  I prefer
flexible deities to rigid "you must call on the Lady and Lord or your magic
won't work" stuff.  In the new edition, she herself says that she was too
rigidly dualistic in _SD_.  Why do you feel that she doesn't address the God
in _SD_?


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark