HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: types of "power"
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:33:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct15.153316.14147
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <ldprfdINNbl8@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) writes:
>In article <73740068@hpsad.sad.hp.com> sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:
>>
>>I have found this to be exactly the opposite.  As a reasonably attractive
>>blue eyed blond, I have found people assume that I have no brains *because*
>>of my looks.  They feel that brains and beauty are opposites so how could
>>an attractive woman have any worth as an employee other than decorative?
>
>I knew a reasonably attractive blue-eyed blond woman who was also
>president of the local N.O.W. chapter.  She was virtually ostracized by
>the other radfems because she didn't fit their idea of what a feminist
>should look like.
>
>They were quite surprised to find out that she'd been working on her
>PhD in engineering when she became the chapter president.

Strange.....  A "virtually ostracized" woman getting elected president 
of her NOW chapter.  What, you mean the other members didn't look at 
her before they voted for her?  Or did she just walk into the meeting 
and declare herself president? 

Or, could you possibly be saying that "radfems" did not dominate this 
NOW chapter?  Or that "radfems" could move beyond whatever personal 
prejudices they may have held with regards to "looks" and still 
elect this woman their president?  Gee, what a great bunch of folks!

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women

   > Early on she chastised me for not wanting any direct involvement
   > on my part with her exhusbands family. This was very uncomfortable for me. 
   > I did not object to my wifes or kids contact and tried to be encouraging, 
   > but refused to participate myself in their family activities.
   > Ron

I can understand your reluctance to get involved but do try to see some of the
other sides to this predicament.

On the one hand, I was married for 15 years with my family far away and my 
(then) husband's family close by.  We all got quite close and I consider
them still my family eventhough I am divorced.  On the other hand, my brother
has a son who I was quite close to for the first 3 years of his life but I 
have not seen since his divorce.  I would love to meet his new family and 
know how everything has worked out (he is now in his 20s).  You may not feel
you should be a part of their lives but you are.
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Affirmative Action (Re: The Politics Of Appeasement)
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:19:38 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

In soc.women, sobleski@sol4.cs.psu.edu (Mark Sobolewski) writes:

 >After affirmative action, welfare, and all
 >those other liberal programs _guaranteed_ to lift people out of poverty
 >they still haven't made it.  Yet "women and minorities" still can't seem
 >to feed their own children without welfare and child-support despite
 >having high paying jobs handed to them.

 >If these people aren't morally and mentally inferior, then what is the cause?

 >It's sad to say, but the cause is probably the liberal programs intended to
 >"help" them.  But rather than build blacks up, liberal programs have only
 >promoted irresponsibility and attacked their credibility before they
 >had a chance to build it.  

Having worked as a female engineer before and after the onset of women's lib
and AA, I have to agree that he has a point.  Originally, people thought I
was rather strange (a female in engineering) but that I must be incredibly
smart.  Once AA got started, they were happy if I knew how to fill out my
time card without assistance since they "knew" I was only there as a token
and had no qualifications whatsoever.  At one point, the company I was
working for hired 3 more "female engineers" -- one had a degree in English
and one had a theoretical math degree and one hadn't even finished college!
This did nothing for women's lib or these women's self esteem.

However, until something else comes up, I really believe we have to stick
with it.  As long as a profession is limited to one race and one sex, we
need to break any barriers we can.  I am working with programs aimed at
the junior high girls in the hope that we can get to them before society
does.  Even if they do end up in clothing design, computer experience
can't hurt!  If we keep them in the math and science corricula as long as
possible it keeps their options open.  
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Vicky Hansen                      | e-mail: sam@hpsad.HP.COM         |
 | Firmware - 859x Product line      | Telnet: 794-4442                 |
 | HP Microwave Instrument Division  | AT&T: (707) 794-4442             |
 | 1212 Valley House Dr.             | HPDesk: Vicky HANSEN/HP5300/UM   |
 | Rohnert Park, CA 94928-4999       | HP Mailstop: 2LR-R               |
 |----------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |        Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty         |
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:38:43 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

I read in the paper once about the wretched First family, where the daughters
were named April, May and June. The poor son was named Safety. No kidding.

Xref: sparky soc.women:17655 soc.singles:27601 soc.penpals:2865
From: martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.singles,soc.penpals
Subject: Re: Wanted Straight Female
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:21:56 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Distribution: usa
Organization: UNC Department of Computer Science
In-reply-to: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com's message of 13 Oct 92 13:16:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.131619.789@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton) writes:

    Either I'm clairevoyant(which I doubt or I'd know how to spell it)

because you'd have forseen the need to look it up?

   or I've seen this personal and a couple others 2 or 3 times in the
   last couple days.

    Look guys it won't work here. I posted one for the honeydew melon
   of my dreams and all I got was NADA, ZILCH, SQUAT.
    Hey, it's lonely out in the garden.

Well, of course it didn't work, James.  It's *pumpkin* season.
--
		Charles R. Martin/(Charlie)/martinc@cs.unc.edu
     Dept. of Computer Science/CB #3175 UNC-CH/Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3175
	    3611 University Dr #13M/Durham, NC 27707/(919) 419 1754
		 Remember what the little cake said to Alice.
Xref: sparky soc.women:17632 soc.men:17640
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Amy Fischer: The Circus Continues
Date: 13 Oct 1992 02:50:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Sep29.094826.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
>  In many states, California included, it's rape only if the victim is female.
>That led to a situation here in Los Angeles where several parents tried to
>press charges against a woman who has been having sex with young boys in her
>neighborhood, only to be told that the woman was committing no crime and was
>free to continue.

We just need another excuse for a riot over the numerous inequities of the
judicial system; this, along with all the other inequities concerning the way
rape is treated in the judicial system being a prime candidate.

There's no room in the United States for these kinds of inequities.  As it is
this, the third branch of the Federal government, has lost just about all its
credibility along with the other two branches.

If this, along with all the other events of today, is a sign of the Republic's
aging and imminent death, then let it proceed with all due haste before we all
become oppressed by a well-meaning but dangerously obsolete system.
From: schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Mattel on women
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:00:50 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <1992Oct10.221821.14169@leland.Stanford.EDU>
farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

>>I just saw a news report on the story, in which a Jean McKenzie
>>(public relations, Mattel) was interviewed.  She said that only
>>one (1) doll had been returned so far.  She may have been lying, er..
>>misstating, but you'd think from all the outcry that hundreds
>>or maybe a few thousand had been returned.  The loudest critics
>>seem to be the American Association of University Women (dunno if
>>I got the name right), but they haven't hurt the sales any.
>
>Part of that may come from the fact that, if the Barbie is returned,
>the customer receives a non-talking Barbie (of less value).

Which means that the customer either believes that the $10 is
more important than the child's future, or that the child's
future is not threatened much by a mathophobic Barbie.

I think the latter is more likely; i.e. the people who tend to
think of Barbie (in general) as a positive influence are not likely
to disapprove of her saying that math is tough.

-S. Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Organization: my opinions only
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:50:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.022429.5811@u.washington.edu>
rons@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ronald Schoenberg) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.231511.18624@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.183741.8930@u.washington.edu>
>>gwangung@byron.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>
>[.....]
>>
>>If the building I'm in catches fire, and I'm unconscious from smoke
>>inhalation, I want a firefighter who is able to lift my 200-lb carcass
>>and carry it quickly to safety.
:
:
>  It is my impression that modern firefighting
>depends on equipment and training, and I would much rather have
>someone with the best training, equipment, and thinking ability nearby.

It depends on both.  I want the most qualified person to be hired; I
only gave the example of being able to carry a heavy victim as one
form of qualification, because it happens to be relatively easy to
test for.  AA says to hire people from group X, even if they're not as
qualified as others.  I object to that.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Xref: sparky soc.women:17720 soc.men:17725
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: An Old Male Fantasy that needs to pass
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:51:06 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: sandy

In article <1992Oct13.053612.21273@netcom.com>, barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
> In article <1992Oct12.104534.2616@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:
> Not that Roman
> gladiators have a damn thing to do with modern warfare in any case.
> 

  The whole point of the debate was whather women will be equally effective
soldiers against men in a non-mechanized combat environment. In every
maor war, desite the claims by the ruling bodies that war has become automatic
and easy, it never ends that way. Even the highly mechanized German army of WW2
wound up having to carry their own supplies by hand when the fuel ran out.

  So, find an example of women fighting men one-on-one in a non-mechanized
combat environment and winning consistantly, and I'll change my position.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  "The great masses of people. . .will more easily fall                 |
|  victims to a big lie than to a small one."                            |
|                                          --Adolf Hitler                |
|                                                                        |
|   "All men are potential rapists, and that's _all_ they are!"          |
|                                 -- Susan Brownmiller                   |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: types of "power"
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:05:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <73740068@hpsad.sad.hp.com> sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:
>
>I have found this to be exactly the opposite.  As a reasonably attractive
>blue eyed blond, I have found people assume that I have no brains *because*
>of my looks.  They feel that brains and beauty are opposites so how could
>an attractive woman have any worth as an employee other than decorative?

I knew a reasonably attractive blue-eyed blond woman who was also
president of the local N.O.W. chapter.  She was virtually ostracized by
the other radfems because she didn't fit their idea of what a feminist
should look like.

They were quite surprised to find out that she'd been working on her
PhD in engineering when she became the chapter president.

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags 
-- that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal (Mark Twain).
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: An Old Male Fantasy that needs to pass
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:04:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.104534.2616@mdcbbs.com> 
rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:
>
>  All I am saying is that there is a lot to modern warfare that depends on
>sheer physical strength, and the average woman is smaller and weaker than the
>average man. Any military commander who sends women into a hand to hand

Said military commander is no fool if the women are well-qualified.

rini
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: New toys
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:59:47 GMT

Twila.Walker@f29.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Twila Walker) writes:

>Has anyone else heard of the new  toy that's supposed to come out on the market??  It's a pregnancy simulater that children can wear!  I can't believe that in this day and age someone would want their child pretending to be pregnant!  What will they come out with next??


I saw this on TV, and had much the same reaction. However, I think maybe it's 
a mixed ting -- it's nice in a way to teach kids that pregnancy exists, and
that babies don't just come from the store wrapped in plastic. On the other 
hand, it's probably not that great to teach them that it's easy, painless,
and convenient, and that the babies are always perfect and blonde. Or that
it's something to play at, in general.

Anybody else tempted to buy one for a boy? :-)

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/

Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:19:23 GMT

farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

>In article <1992Oct8.175556.23357@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> jrmo@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (joseph.r.moore) writes:
>>You mean where people who own businesses that they built and risked
>>there savings on, hire whoever they like.  Are you saying that people
>>of all races and sexes are not equal?  Is it possible that white men
>>have a combination of genetics and upbringing that enables them to be
>>better at certain jobs?  

>You know it, dude.  I hear it comes from the fact that black slaves
>were bred for their muscles and not their brains.  Therefore, we have
>black athletes and not black scientists.  

No, no, NO! Breeding and genetics have absolutely nothing to do with
determining individual abilities and preferences. They only affect
characteristics that are absolutely value neutral, like skin color,
Tay-Sachs disease, Rh factor, etc. To suggest that there may be any
genetic factor in ability, orientation, or aptitude is offensive.
There are simply no significant population differences between
different racial or ethnic groups, and anyone who doubts this is
a prejudiced bigot.

Regards,
       H. Biesel
Xref: sparky soc.women:17640 soc.men:17651
From: mbk@poincare.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: An Old Male Fantasy that needs to pass
Date: 13 Oct 1992 03:48:51 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:
:   All I am saying is that there is a lot to modern warfare that depends on
: sheer physical strength, and the average woman is smaller and weaker than the
: average man. Any military commander who sends women into a hand to hand
: battle is either a fool or desperate.

Yeah.   Just like those smaller and weaker Asian men.  Obviously we
shouldn't let them in our army; look what happens when they try to
fight.

: |  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Xref: sparky soc.women:17534 soc.motss:42464 soc.misc:1011 soc.men:17536 soc.college.grad:1927 soc.college:4236 soc.bi:13583 sci.psychology:4064 rec.misc:255 alt.politics.homosexuality:6395 alt.personals:20144 misc.misc:3485
From: kingston@artex.waisman.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.motss,soc.misc,soc.men,soc.college.grad,soc.college,soc.bi,sci.psychology,rec.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.personals,misc.misc
Subject: RE: What adjectives do you think best describe romantic jealousy?
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:19:52 GMT
Organization: Waisman Center, University of Wisconsin-Madison

cindy kingston, 6108 queensway, monona wi 53716. I will be very happy to
participate in this survey.  I have alot to offer you.
From: 890530m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Darren MacKenzie)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Personal "Ads" Looking for "Babes"
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:23:56 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

debra@creatures.cs.vt.edu (Debra Potts) writes:

>Things I've seen recently from various posters: 

[...various bullshit deleted...]

>	Since I have subscribed I've seen almost as much crapola
>	as I have seen real and intelligent conversations about
>	anything even remotely relevant to the female perspective
>	in America (or the world) today.  What is the deal, folks?
>deb

Well, deb, it looks like you have to take the good with the bad.
Someone may start a discussion about one thing, and it leads to
something else...and whatever.......blah blah...blah blah.....
-Doc
Xref: sparky soc.women:17474 talk.abortion:41225
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:54:41 EDT
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: ABSOLUTELY NEW REMEDY FOR CONTRACEPTION IS OFFERED !!
 <1992Oct6.123631.2439@brandonu.ca>

In article <1992Oct6.123631.2439@brandonu.ca>, mcbeanb@brandonu.ca says:

>> Hey, I've heard of it!  It's called ABSTINENCE!

>Doesn't anybody believe me?  Abstinence is *not* a very reliable form
>of contraception for a sexually active couple to attempt to use.
>Sure, some people can abstain for great lengths of time (virgins
>everywhere do), but not *everybody* is reliable enough to adhere
>to abstinence.  Jeepers.

First of all, it -is- reliable, and reasonable, for single people.
   Some ignore this foolproof method, at their own peril.

Second, not *everybody* is reliable enough to adhere to the pill or to
condoms, either.  Jeepers.

>Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:58:14 GMT
Subject: Re: You and Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: soc.women

In soc.women, rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:

    In article <1992Sep29.014101.12554@cis.ohio-state.edu>, angrish@hickory.cis.ohio-state.edu (yogesh angrish) writes:
    > In article <1992Sep28.165054.9146@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> sdp@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (sunil.d.patil) writes:
    >>
    >>To all those beautiful, loving and compassionate girls,
    > 
    > YOU MAKE ME MAD........
    > GET A LIFE YOU JERK....OR POST THIS BULLSHIT IN SOME OTHER NEWSGROUP.
    > 
    -- 

      The habitable surface of the Earth is some 60,000,000 square miles. That's
    room enough for all kinds of people. At least let's give the guy credit for
    trying to do something positive!

Miracles never cease!  Who would have thought that I would ever see a rivero
post that I completely agreed with ?
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Diane)
Subject: Re: An Old Male Fantasy that needs to pass
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 15:55:13 CDT

When I was in jump school at Fort Benning, Ga.  There were perhaps
a dozen, or a dozen and half women in my training company (the mighty 42d Co.).
 
Women combatants will jeopardize the combat effectiveness of their unit
and will undermine the nation's effectiveness in waging a war when necessary.
Perhaps women from other cultures may be successful in combat but I do
not think American women have what it takes,
physically and mentally (emotionally?). Generally speaking of course :)
----
John P. Martin
 
Gosh John, your war stories were *fascinating* and I'm sure you really
impressed the hell out of everybody at Ft Benning School for Boys. Because
I was so physically and emotionally stunted, I was sent to Air Assault
School at Ft Campbell Ky (101st Airborne) and spent 3 years as a
helicopter crewchief. If there was one thing that made the Army anything
less than heaven on earth (!) it was the attitude of men like you. For
women, the military often offers a no-win situation. If you socialize
(ie 'talk') with the guys after work- you're a slut. If you don't, you're
a dyke. If you make rank on time, you're sleeping with the CO. If you
don't, you're a goldbricker. Shortly before I ETS'd,I was given my own squad.
My biggest pain-in-the-ass? Hands down, it was the 18 and 19 year old boys
(the word 'men' would be inappropriate) who spent more time whining than
doing their jobs (of course when I got on their cases, I was just one more
'woman on the rag').
John, can you even fathom what life in the military is like for a woman?
It's real easy to tell yourself (and others) what a great guy, what a
regular GI Joe you were (yeah yeah, jump higher, run faster, all that
good stuff)- now see what it's like when 90% of your unit is waiting
for you to fall on your ass so that they can tell everybody that you're
getting carried though the program and you don't belong there at all.
The most important thing I learned in the Army is that there are a*lot*
of men out there who can only make themselves look good by tearing
other people down. Women are the target of choice these days, just like
African-Americans were 40-50 years ago.
Go find someone else to kick.
Diane (equally good with an M-16 or an M-60/mounted)
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:52:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Barbie is Right! (was: Mattel on women)
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA