From: jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
Subject: Re: Good News from U.S.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:22:24 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoo-gw.cs.yale.edu

In article <1993Jan21.162435.24427@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
>:
>: Fifth, it is good news for those in the region who are leading their
>: people into this war because it gives them notice that they are responsible
>: for settling their differences, not the "great powers."  This is as it
>: should be, isn't that what the words independence, autonomy, and sovereignty
>: mean?  
>
>Yeah, the world should have just let Hitler continue exterminating the Jews.
>The population supported it, so that was okay.  They could settle their
>own differences.
>
>After all, isn't that what independence, autonomy, and sovereignty mean?
>
>Scott Linn
>scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com

First, I never said the holocaust was okay.  Second, the world didn't act
against Hitler because of the holocaust; it acted because of Hitler's
invasions.  Third, 1.4 million Serbs in Bosnia lived in Bosnia, owned and
farmed land in Bosnia, etc. before the current war began; they are not
invading anybody.  The illegal secessions of ex-Yugoslav republics does
not change the fact that over 2 million Serbs in those republics were
taken out of their country (Yugoslavia) against their will overnight when
the secessions were declared and recognized by the international community
in blatant violation of international law.  The U.N. counts over 600,000
refugees of the war in Serbia, including between 50-60,000 Muslims and 
20-30,000 Croatians.  Did Jewish refugees in WWII flee to Germany?  Over
25% of ALL the refugees of this war have been taken in by Serbia and
Montenegro, including Serbs, Croats, Muslims, Jews, and others.  In addition,
Serbs have been victims of ethnic cleansing not only in the current war,
but also for 50 years in Kosovo, and during WWII in Croatia, B-H, and in
German-occupied Serbia itself.  These historical facts are not the cause
of the present war, but they do affect how Serbs, Croats, and Muslims
interact at the negotiating table as well as the battlefield.  Asking Serbs
to live in an independent Croatia or an independent Bosnia-Hercegovina is
analogous to asking millions of Jews to live in Germany.  In fact, Saudi
Arabia, after WWII, suggested that Israel be carved out of Germany instead
of Palestine.  This would have allowed the European Jews to remain where
they had long been without having to live IN Germany.  This is what the 
Serbs of Croatia and B-H want also; they don't want to move off land which
has been theirs for centuries, they don't want to live under regimes which
by their symbols and actions remind them of WWII atrocities committed against
them, and if Croatians and Muslims are entitled to their self-determination,
then the Serbs want self-determination as well.  Serbs are fighting for the
portions of Croatia and B-H on which they have lived continuously for
centuries.  Hitler fought for territory which had never been German.  Cyrus
Vance and David Owen acknowledge that Serbians lived on 60% of B-H before
this war began.  Yet, their peace plan only offers Serbs about 43% of B-H.
How much more land do you expect Serbs to give up?  Perhaps the U.S. ought
to give up more of its land to Native Americans (why not Arizona, Oklahoma,
and New England, for example), more of its land to Mexican Americans (perhaps
Texas, New Mexico, and southern California), more of its land to African
Americans (say Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas, and Florida)
before asking Serbs to give up land they have been living on for at least 
twice as long as the entire existence of the U.S., and in many parts of
Bosnia, since before the birth of Mohammed.  Of course, Bosnian Muslims and
Bosnian Croatians also have legitimate claims and entitlements.  That is
why there is a war.  The key to ending the war is recognizing all of these
peoples' rights, not just some of them.  If you choose to side with only
some of them to deny the legitimate and just demands of another, you are
a catalyst for more war.  It's your choice: work for lasting peace or 
lasting war.  I choose peace.  What about you?

-Nick