HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Taurus tops Accord as #1 Seller in U.S.
Date: 7 Jan 1993 12:14:50 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <1993Jan7.153441.10216@metter.fmpmis.metter.com> virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (P. Virgo) writes:
>This morning, I heard on the radio that the Taurus had finally topped the
>Accord as the best-selling car in the U.S.

Yup... check the Business section of your local paper.

>Anybody else heard about this?? Anybody got numbers to back this up??

According to the Boston papers, the Taurus outsold the Accord by about
409,000 to 393,000.  They also point out, however, that Ford took a financial
beating ($2000/car in rebates, fleet deals, etc.) in order to achieve this
goal.  I point out that it would have been politically impossible for Honda
to have offered similar incentives without being charged with "dumping".

(Auto industry analysts had been predicting all year that the all-new '92
Toyota Camry would siphon off enough sales from the aging Accord to yield
the #1 position to the Taurus by default.  I don't have figures on '92 vs.
'91 sales of any of the three cars, though, so I don't know if their
reasoning was correct.)

Andrew Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jahonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: LH: Should I or Shouldn't I?
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:49:51 GMT

tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn) writes:



>Note above that I said "exclusively" and tried to emphasize that 
>as much as possible in my post.  I have met with people who said 
>that they would NOT EVEN CONSIDER buying a U.S. manufactured 
>automobile, for ANY reason.  For those people, it won't matter 
>whether "American cars stand on their own behalf" or not.
> 
>I agree that any product, including American products, should be 
>judged against the market's quality standard.  I personally 
>believe that domestic content, because of its positive 
>contributions to our economy (employment, tax base, capital 
>ownership) should be just ONE of the factors that are considered 
>in a purchase decision.  I do have difficulty, however, with 
>people who categorically reject American products without 
>evaluating them, then return home to enjoy the standard of living 
>afforded by this country, oblivious to what this may mean to our 
>children.
> 

Funny to see all that Chrysler etc bashing going on in this newsgroup.
Personally I do not have an American made car, but my friend has
a Chrysler (model called Saratoga in Europe, I do not know its name in
USA), and he thinks that the car is fine. Earlier on he was a good
Toyota customer, but now when Chrysler had done so good job with that
Saratoga, he thinks buying an Eagle Vision (the only LH type to be marketed
in Europe if things go as they have been said to) when it comes available
here in Finland.

At least he thinks that Chrysler is as realiable and well-done as a Toyota.
It may, however, be the case that export cars are better done than the ones
intended for domestic (USA) use.

But generally, at least in the minivan category, Chrysler has a *very*
good reputation.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jarmo J. Ahonen
Computing Centre, Lappeenranta University of Technology, P.O.Box 20,
SF-53851 Lappeenranta, Finland. email: Jarmo.Ahonen@lut.fi

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Civic Wagon???
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:16:40 GMT

In article <Jan.5.15.02.03.1993.11222@ruccs.rutgers.edu> jacob@ruccs.rutgers.edu (Jacob Feldman) writes:
>Hello,
>
>  I am considering buying a new car to replace my aging Honda
>Accord sedan. I would like a small wagon or (less preferably)
>hatchback, and had my heart set on the Civic Wagon (sometimes
>called the "wagovan"), which a friend of mine calls the "Swiss
>Army Knife of cars". 
>
>Now, it turns out the Civic Wagon has been discontinued. It was
>rumored to be reintroduced sometime last year but wasn't. So,
>two questions:
>
>1. What similar cars should I be considering? (Eg. Corolla Wagon,
>Subaru, etc.) I would consider $18k fully equipped my ceiling,
>including ABS,AC,automatic transmission.

I know a guy that rescently toatled an Accord and replaced it with
a new Civic, although he claims its still a "nice car" it's still
missing alot of the little features that were on his Accord.

The new Corolla is supposed to be a super car for the money, also
you still have the Accord wagon (although its just a little beyond
what you wanted to spend), and its rumored that Honda will introduce
a mini-van on the next generation Accord platform due out in '94.

>
>2. Does anybody know when the Civic Wagon is actually going to
>be reintroduced?	
>
I have no idea.
>
>jacob@ruccs.rutgers.edu

-----
Jeff

jmh@turing.ORG

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ynecelc@sx.mont.nec.com (Ellison Chan)
Subject: Re: ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS WITH 1992 ACCORD EX-R
Organization: HNSX Supercomputers
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:39:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.034937.22215@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <C01yL3.EMt@ecf.toronto.edu> yanr@ecf.toronto.edu (YAN RAYMOND TZE-HENG) writes:
>>Hello netters,
>>    As a response to a posted article, I frequently have the experience of
>>getting shocked almost every time when I get out of my car. Personally I
>>believe that it's a problem with the electrical system. I have my car checked
>>up in a dealer but the explanation I got was normal 'static charge'. 
>>    Anyone also have this problem and in particular, have it solved, please
>>let me know. Any help and information will be appreciated.
>>							 Raymond 
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>Internet :  yanr@ecf.toronto.edu          yanr@ugsparc0.eecg.toronto.edu
>
>
>This seems to be a common problem with the new Accords, although I own a '92
>Accord EX (the US equivalent of the EX-R) and have never experienced this.
>
>I'm open to any suggestions anyone has (JUST IN CASE).
>
>Jeff
>
>jmh@turing.org

I think it's most likely caused by rubbing against the cloth seats in 
the car. My MX-3 has partially solved the problem by including a button
with the word "touch" on it. You are supposed to touch this to drain
the static electric build-up before getting out of the car.

Seems to be pretty good.
-- 
Ellison Chan, Comp. Sys. Analyst               2350 Place TransCanadienne
HNSX Supercomputers Inc., NEC Corp.        Dorval, Quebec, Canada H9P 2X5
E-mail: ellison@SX.Mont.NEC.COM          (514)684-7705, FAX (514)684-8619
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:38:30 GMT

In article <30075@castle.ed.ac.uk> wbg@festival.ed.ac.uk (W Geake) writes:
>The statement about a big lazy V6 being just right for a trip to the
>shops with the kids makes European blood boil.

Is this jealousy? :)
How about a trip to the shops with a V8?  :)
(I'm rubbing it in, I know, but I can't help it)

>That's an awful lot of
>surplus mass to cart around for the sake of smoothness or longevity. 

But that surplus mass gives you power on tap.  You only live once...

>How many people keep the car until the engine is really shot (I mean
>average people; not you great folks out there in net land)?

Not enough.  Blame the automakers.

>Why has US engine technology been so backward (at least for sale to the
>public)?

Give me a 1967 Chrysler 426 HEMI any day.
I'll take 8 cylinders, cast iron, and timing chains any day.
Keep your (hard to maintain/expensive to fix) 4 bangers.

>a) your fuel is too cheap now, and has been for years.  Get that deficit
>down and reduce CO2 emissions with a nice hefty tax (3$/gal would be
>about right in European eyes).

Ah, so that's the real problem.  Well, where is all your gas tax money
going?  To pay for your farming subsidies no doubt.

We (Canada) pay about $2 (US) per Imperial gallon, and, just like alchohol
and tabacco tax, who the hell knows where this money is going.  Gas tax
money is certainly not going back into road maintenence, or public transit.

It's a crock, and I refuse to pay the same amount of money (adjusted for
inflation) to go from A to B 20 years ago as I do now.  If gov'ts are
forcing automakers to turn out 4 cylinder coffins (and believe me it's
happening in the US), then people aught to take advantage of the fuel
economy, not have the gov't tax it from them, especially since these
new cars have less utility and transportability than cars or 20 and
30 years ago, and are much more expensive to insure and maintain.
 
>d) The historically insulting attitude of "Put some more chrome (or
>electric goodies or whatever) on for the new model - the old V8 motor
>will do."

Gone are the days when cars are built without gov't influence on the design
being the over-riding factor.
I guess building a car that consumers buy is an insulting attitude?

>Thankfully, this appears to be changing.  In anticipation of a good Euro
>vs US flame, Bill @ Edinburgh signs off.

Should be interesting...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jwithana@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Janaka Withana)
Subject: Re: Geo Prizm vs. Honda Civic
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:12:33 GMT

In article <0fIRziK00UzxE37Ylp@andrew.cmu.edu> jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:
>I'm assuming size is an issue; Saturns are _much_ bigger on the inside
>than Geos or Civics

not really true when comparing with Geo Prizm or Honda Civic. as someone else
mentioned, the Prizm is classified as a compact and not a sub-compact like the
Saturn SL. and the Civic is pretty darn spacious inside because of the way
the console is laid out.

>Plus,
>Saturn features many touches not available in this range (even from
>almighty Honda), such as the bags, the paint job, the traction control
>(pretty cheap, although of course requiring auto)

both '93 Civic and Prizm have standard airbag. i'm not sure what is so special
about the Saturn paintwork. i want a 5-speed so traction control does nothing
for me personally.

the Saturn SL had a much less powerful standard engine (82 hp) than either the
Civic sedan (102 hp) or the Prizm (108 hp)

my choice has now narrowed down to Civic LX or Prizm LSi:

Civic:	MSRP $11885	Consumer Reports Dealer Invoice List $10102
Prizm:	MSRP $10630	Consumer Reports Dealer Invoice List $9800

i would want air conditioning on both, but the Prizm will require a lot of
options that are supplied as standard on the Civic.

any advice on which car i should get?  what is a good price that someone has
got recently? how near invoice do you think the dealer will sell?

--Janaka Withana
-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| jwithana@phoenix.Princeton.EDU                 janaka@lucille.Princeton.EDU |
| janaka@ee.Princeton.EDU    JWITHANA@PUCC.bitnet   mjw@clarity.Princeton.EDU |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vlj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Victor Johnson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:40:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Braking techniques
Organization: Dances with Hawks
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In rec.autos, bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda) writes:

> Been getting a decent amount of freezing rain here lately,
> and the roads are pretty slick most of the time. I had
> occasion :) to come to a few hot stops, and downshifted always
> to get braking help. In fact, I did a  5 -> 2 once and was 
> quite surprised at how much deceleration resulted. Hence the
> following questions inviting your opinions.


> 1. Since engine braking has nothing to do with the tire/road
>    contact, it should not cause skidding or loss of control.
>    True ? Counterexamples ?

     Eh?  Only if the physics in your universe is different than mine.
	 Test -> Take her up to 90 mph, downshift into 1st, dump the clutch
	 and report your findings.

> Thanks
> Bhaskar(@orion.me.uiuc.edu)

  Cheers,
  Victor "Dances with Exploding Transmissions" Johnson
  ----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: LH: Should I or Shouldn't I?
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:39:07 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

Tom Mathes writes:

>Several Americans gripe that American car companies don't produce the
>cars they want.  The American company then produces a car that's right on
>target (like the LH), then the same people say "well, it's not proven".
T>hese folks never think an American car company can produce world class
>product.  Seems that the term "America basher" is appropriate for 
>this type of person.

I've been hearing from the US car companies for the last 20 years how, yes,
they've made some errors in the past, but "now they've finally got it right."
I heard it in the Pinto and Vega days, I heard it in the Chevy Citation days,
I heard it ad nauseum.  They're claiming again to have learned their lesson,
and this from a company with a nice distribution of bad rep (Check out the
Car Book, any consumer groups, on repair records).  Now, it may very well be
that this time they indeed DO have it right.

But it's for them to prove it to me, not for me to take a chance on them.  It'll
take a couple years for them to do that.  And I hope I'm proven wrong, as I was
with the Saturn, I'm happy to say.  Until then, I wouldn't want to be a Guinea
Pig, left twisting in the wind by those guys.

	Dave
From: gallaghe@gdc.com (Robert Gallagher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: dodge shadow - fuel problem
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:21:17 GMT
Organization: General DataComm Ind. Inc., Middlebury, CT 06762
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


I have a dodge shadow 89 with a 2.5 liter tubro.  Recently the fuel pumper was
replaced, the pump was not functioning.  Now every time the fuel level gets to 
a quarter tank or less I get massive hesitation.  The engine will stall.  When 
I fill it up again it runs as usual. The garage that did the work cant find the 
problem.  I do not feel it is the new pump or the pressure regulator.  My 
thought is that there is dirt or sludge blocking the input to the fuel
reserve tank located in the gas tank itself.  

Also, I have checked the obvious, the fuel is working correctly.

Any other thoughts on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Rob Gallagher
 
--
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:40:43 GMT

In article <0fITpTy00UzxE37dJz@andrew.cmu.edu>, jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:
|>  Has anyone else noticed (Newsweek or some such did an article on it
|> 10-91) that US cars now virtually match Japanese for quality (as
|> measured in actual repairs, not "feel", which is suspiciously
|> subjective), and beat them in size, cost, and, on average, fuel economy,
|> yet half the country insists that only a redneck idiot would buy US? 

I agree, some of us even knew this was happening before the press decided it
was acceptable to look more critical at Japan.  Since 1972 I have usually owned
a German or Japanese car and an American car at the same time.  After all the 
dust settles and I look at purchase costs, operating costs, and reliability
I can no longer see any significant difference between them after about 1982.
There was a significant difference however between the Honda and Mazda's I
owned in the 70's -- they were worse than the Volkswagens, Fords, Mercedes,
and GM cars I owned.  In fact those few years pretty much soured me on buying
a Japanese car to this day.   

|> I'd say that someone buying a Tercel these days is in the same mindset as
|> someone who bought a Dodge 600 (or whatever) in the early 80s. He wants
|> to buy a car made in a certain country, and won't consider the other
|> option.

Naah.  Nobody who buys a Japanese car could be prejudice, could they?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: "Gary Hopkins" <wk00624@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Tricks for cold weather?
Organization: Gary Hopkins Typesetting
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:39:01 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>I've unstuck a door lock by blowing into it.  You have to shove your
>mouth up against the door to get enough pressure.  Yes, this adds
>humidity to the lock internals, but several breaths are usually enough
>to get me in.
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)

This technique strikes me as too close to the old story about sticking 
your tongue (literally) on a pump handle, or whatever below-freezing 
metallic device of your choice. :)
From: morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Taurus #1 in US
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:51:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada

In article <1ihrg7INN5th@agate.berkeley.edu> neff@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Robert Neff) writes:
>In article <buck.726418367@granite> buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:
>>dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>>>According to last year's sales figures, Taurus edged out the Accord as 
>>>the US's top-selling car model, and Ford wasted no time in giving itself
>>
>>all this stuff about "who sold the most" is kind of irrelevant anyway.
>>more importantly, what's the company's bottom line?  it doesn't matter
>>how much you sell if you're losing money hand-over-fist.  (and as the
>>recent Time (tm) magazine article pointed out, Japanese mfgrs. are
>>not doing that well these days either, so it seems like everybody's
>>in a similar boat...)
>>
>
>I would tend to agree, that in Ford's case, the motivation was to be
>able to brag about the best selling car in America for 1992 in their
>1993 advertising, as well
>as market share and over-supply reasons.  The end of year promotions
>cost them something like $2500/car.  Sounds like it was a good time
>to buy one.

Exactly. If you look at the sales figures for the first six months of 1992,
it's clear that some factor dramatically increased Ford's Taurus sales in
the second half of 1992.

January-June 1992: Honda Accord......191 682
                   Ford Taurus.......181 189

Accord sales in the second half iwere 201 795, an increase of about 5%. Taurus
sales, on the other hand, jumped to 228 562, an increase of 26% over sales
in the first six months of 1992.

Obviously people were much more strongly motivated to purchase a Taurus in the
latter part of the year than they were earlier in the year.

By the way, the best-selling car in Canada is the Chevy Cavalier; the Accord
ranks fourth, I believe.

-- Brent
morton@artifis.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rdu@iastate.edu (Runqing Du)
Subject: Get a car heated in winter: How long is appropriate?
Keywords: Heating
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:15:23 GMT

I own a 1990 Nissan Sentra-XE 2dr sedan. And I live in central Iowa.
My car is always parked outdoor.

My wife usually idles the car for 15-20 minutes in a cold winter morning, say
0 degree Farenhite. But i think 7-8 minutes should be enough and excessive 
idling will do harm to the engine. Would some guys please give me a
professional answer to this question. Please email me or post in this network.

BTW, how long should you heat your car at 10pm with previous driving being 
around 4:30 pm?

Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Subject: Re: Needs new fuel pump?
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:14:52 GMT

In article <11JAN199310350857@nessie.cc.wwu.edu> 8635660@nessie.cc.wwu.edu 
writes:

}        The different rates of expansion/contraction between the heads and the
}bottom end mean that gas does indeed have a chance to get into the oil,
}especially in stop and go driving.

I'll agree that in my experience the fuel pump is a fairly common
avenue for entrance of gas into the crankcase, but I can't imagine
how different rates of expansion/contraction between the
heads and the bottom end would have anything to do with it.  
Much less relating it to stop and go driving.  Btw, if changing
oil every 500 miles is good, (and I doubt anyone can offer proof
that it isn't) wouldn't changing it at 400 miles be better?  After
all, "oil is cheap."  Some folks prefer longer intervals, however,
and while I may not be elderly (yet) I have some experience with
VWs both as a mechanic and shop manager, and I can't ever remember
recommending or hearing it recommended that oil be changed that
frequently.



--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
                  Illiterate?  Write for FREE help...
From: wpc@po.CWRU.Edu (William P. Claspy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: '74 Super...Valves
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:20:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Doug sez-
>how many people out there think I should adjust the valves too

YOU MEAN YOU HAVEN'T ADJUSTED THE VALVES???
Look, as you've read in Muir, EVERYONE should adjust their own valves.  And
we all do it OFTEN.  Trust me, it's as simple as Muir describes.  Get in the
habit of doing it first thing in the morning on the day you change your oil.
It's a great way to start things off, get your knuckles skinned a little, get
some grease under your nails, get some contact with the engine.  You'll find
that between the valve adjustment (which is really the first part of a tune
up) and the tune up, your car will not only pass emissions, but drive A LOT
better.

Remember, go slowly and do ALL THE STEPS and smile  ;-)

Bill
-- 
William Claspy		Case Western Reserve University
wpc@po.cwru.edu
From: tedcrum@garnet.berkeley.edu (Ted Crum)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Changing the brake fluid....?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:44:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

I have been changing brake fluid in my own cars and on customer's cars
at a two year interval for 15 years. I decided on this regimen after 
replacing too many corroded brake hydralics. The problem was far worse
in the early days when much European hydraulics was aluminum. Most
now is iron, as was most US gear; iron corrodes less in this service.

With brakes as complicated as they are, with dual circuits, proportioning
ABS, etc, corrosion can be very expensive.

The other reason to change is that fluid gets "wet" and it's boiling point
goes way down. This is especially important in cars with semi-metallic pads,
as on later VW's, which conduct more heat into the fluid. Such cars need
dry DOT4 (Not 3 or 5) fluid.

-Ted Crum


Xref: sparky rec.autos.vw:7882 rec.autos:30933
From: boubez@cesl.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw,rec.autos
Subject: cracked windshield
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:10:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.vw
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Hi there. I know this has been discussed before, but I didn't archive any
of it. I cracked my windshield during the holidays. I know there are
products that are supposed to fix it without having to replace the whole
windshield. Has anybody used any of them? Any recommendations? I also read
here somewhere that some insurance companies will reimburse the entire
amount for the procedure if you don't replace the windshield. Any truth to
theses rumours? Thanks. Take care, and Happy New Year everyone!

            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez@cesl.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University, NJ
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw