From: bws20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 12 Sep 92 07:21:57 GMT
Reply-To: bws20@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article: <1992Sep9.184748.28246@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Andy responds to inflammatory remarks I made regarding Weaver (in turn, in
response to someone's tag line. ">" is me, indentations are Andy,"*" are
my current remarks.



In article <fbPY02lS20ew01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> bws20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons) writes:
>
>In article: <9209072023.AA08588@dg-rtp.dg.com>
>
>Bill Meyers signs off with:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>#It has come to my attention that Mr Weaver's "crime" was having a shotgun
>#barrel too short by *** .1 inch ***. Certainly justification for all the
>#bloodshed that has and will occur over the matter. [sarcasm off]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It seems unfortunate to me Weaver
>was not slain before he managed to breed.  

	Well isn't that kind of you.

*yes, this is an outrageous remark made in the heat of the moment, but
*also based on years of experience with racists (and BTW, I am certainly
*not without sin, but I work on it)


>The only thing worse than
>a racist asshole is a _religious_ racist asshole, except perhaps a
>religious racist asshole who may pass his perverted beliefs on to
>another generation. [No sarcasm to turn off]

	Intolerant little prick.  
 * sometimes^    never^ often^


	Please do us all a favor, go home, kill your kids, your wife, all
	your relatives and then, thankfully, yourself.

   As you can see, two can play your little sanctimonious word game.  Who d and
   left you in charge of determining what's right?  You claim to not agreeth
   racism, but your position is fundamentally  no different.
   You just choose a different form of intolerance.  You are, by your wordhe
   mirror image of that which you claim to hate, only worse since your wor
   imply that YOUR point of view is somehow superior.  Talk about the pot ling
   the kettle black... sheesh.  You may wish to rethink your position on t just
   a bit.  And I am not saying that you have to agree with racism.   I too
   disagree with it, but I suspect I do so for reasons that are very diffet
   from what yours may be.

*I am wellaware of the incongruity of intolerantly declaiming against
*intolerance.  While this may not be a moral muddle for you it is for me.
*Ignoring Weaver for the moment, how can I tolerate, say, Hitlerian
*thought, or racism on that level?  How can I tolerate any belief system
* which classifies people based on their color, or their ethnic background
*?


   You must accept and respect others for what they are, no matter how heis
   their beliefs may seem to you.  If you do not respect others, you meritne
   yourself.  Where do you suppose this gets you?  Intolerance is intolera,
   no matter what clothing you wrap it in.  So if you are going to be agai it
   then really be against it in deed as well as word.  Otherwise you will arl
   appear as a slobbering, empty headed buffoon to anyone with minimal act
   intelligence.  Quite embarassing I'd say.

*SO again, Andy, in all seriousness, and Weaver aside, how should I
*respect Hitler, or Stalin, or you-name-it?  Believe me, despite my
*inflammatory remarks, I do cherish our ability in this country to believe
* as we wish.  Yet there are sokme things which I find so vile, so anti-
*humanity, that _I_ cannot find it within me to tolerate or respect it.
*LEt me put in a little personal perspective.  In the county neighboring
*theone I grew up in, blacks are still afraid to travel.  When I was a
*carpenter about 8-9 years ago, we did a job out there and a balck guy
*that worked with us refused to go into the McDonalds (!!) because he knew
* he would be refused service, because he had in the recent past.
*  My wife worked at a state trout hatchery there for a while; the black
* guy that delivered the fish food always worked his ass off to get out
*of the county before dark, cause he, with good reason, feared for his
*safety.  In the same time period, a major multinational firm had their
*company picnic at the big lake in the county.  One of their black
*employees was walking down the road with acouple of white female
*coworkers.  Two locals drove up and shot him in the head, killed him
* cause he was black.  City folks have built their big homes on the lake
*nd had their black yardmen come up to do some work, and have been told
*quite seriously to desist or have their homes burned to the ground.  I
*should tolerate this?  Why?

*I am not sensitive only to black/white issues, so do not misunderstand
*me.  There is plenty of anti-white racism, and anti-Asian, etc.
*And when racism is cloaked in the robes of religion as well...I just do
*not know how I should respect this.  I do not respect anti-Semitism, nor
*do I respect anti-Arab sentiment by militant Israelis.  When people say
* they are acting because that is what God wants, yes it pushes the big
*skepticism button.  God gave Judea and Samaria to the Hebrews, so screw
* the Palestinians?  The OT talks about the "sons of Ham" and the "mark
*of CAin" so we can be prejudiced against blacks?  The US government is
*"ZOG" to the Weaverites?  Yahweh is healing wounds?  No, I do not buy it.
*Yes, I know, I don't have to buy it...but it always seems to me that
*groups who think hateful thoughts soon commit hateful acts.
*That is what I fear with people like Weaver, and his supporters.


*Andy, I do realize it would be intellectually pure if I were tolerant of
*the intolerant.  I am not, however intellectually pure, nor am I
*Christ-like.

*I would like to know why your dislike for racism is different from mine
* as you suggested.Email is preferred, to the address in my .sig.


  BTW, I did not mean any of the "go kill" talk.  Just thought I'd be painlly
  clear on that in case you didn't gather as much.

	  -Andy V.

*SOmehow I had assumed that my kill Weaver remark would be understood as
*intentional hyperbole.  I am however, still shocked and amazedat how
*readily so many people are willing to consider him a poor innocent, and
*to revile the feds for their actions (understand that I am not fully
*endorsing their activities, for lack of info.  I am eager (seriously)
* to hear any arguments for or against.  Email to my .sig address is more
*likely to reach me.
*
*Oh, and Andy, don't worry, I won't be reproducing.

*bws

--
**************************************************************************
bws20@amail.amdahl.com      the human heart holds hidden treasures,
brian wesley simmons          in secret kept, in silence sealed
**************************************************************************