HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: olsen@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Diane Olsen)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:18:14 GMT

In article <f84mn9p.tmaddox@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>	In fact, given the necessary cultural pluralism of our times, we might 
>learn to live with structures more flexible than a canon, more inclusive.  
>Perhaps we could view these structures as horizontal, not vertical, and we 
>could also respect the idea that there is nothing all of us must read.  As 
>Northrop Frye (whose ingenuous notions of a canon have been mentioned in this 
>discussion) noted, you can recognize the canonical nature of a work by the 
>fact that you're embarrassed not to have read it; I'm suggesting that this
>response has become simply irrelevant, that we must all define our own canons. 
>
>	While we're at it, we might do so with a broad, generous notion of 
>person and genre so that we do not exclude writers because of who they are or
>works because they come from despised literary forms.
>
>	
>-- 
>				Tom Maddox
>		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
>		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
>                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"

Well said, Tom.  (The same for the rest of your comments, but I deleted all
but my favorite part to save space.)

-- 
Diane L. Olsen		"A woman with a mind is fit for all tasks."
olsen@csli.stanford.edu		--Christine de Pizan (c.1363-c.1431)
From: bigham@acpub.duke.edu (Scott Bigham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.sex,talk.politics.misc,talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: Liberals, Little Girls, and Boolean Logic
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:52:40 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: n. Arrangement in an orderly or logical fashion.  See "miracle".

From the Holy Book of <1992Aug12.131957.14662@husc3.harvard.edu>
  as spake by zeleny@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) :

>In article <11689@optilink.UUCP> 
>cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

[much deleted]

Cramer versus the Z-man!  This oughta be interesting!  Bets, anyone?

						-sbigham
-- 
Scott Bigham                   | "This is our path; to fight or die."
bigham@hercules.acpub.duke.edu | "That's what we're paid for, so let's
                               |     do it with some _style_!"
                               |                Dr. Who, "Battlefield"
From: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Whom Do the Intellectuals Serve?
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:10:01 GMT
Reply-To: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.; Campbell, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.hal.com
In-reply-to: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)

In article <1992Aug12.122308.20735@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.002240.7261@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>
>>--Barbara (Babs/Baba/"Linda")  (This is how a really amazing number 
>>of people remember my name, thinking of the actor Linda Lavin, and now 
>>you know how to pronouce Hlavin) 
>
>Damn! I was using "Rowan and Martin's Hlavin"!

I was using the "Linus Method of Pronounciation," outlined by Philospher
and future divinity student Linus Van Pelt while he was reading THE
BROTHERS KARAMAZOV (see, a book reference!):  "When I get to a word I
can't pronounce, I just *bleep* right over it."  So Ms. Hlavin's name
has always been "Barbara Bleep" to me.  Thank the stars I now know how
to pronounce it correctly.
-- 
    Doug Moran        | Heck, picture if aliens ever landed in California.
   dougm@hal.com      | Instead of running away or even inquiring about the
 {...}!hal.com!dougm  | secrets of the universe, *Californians* would probably
 HaL Computer Systems | ask the BEMs if they had any new cuisine!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rmg3@grebyn.com (Robert Grumbine)
Subject: R.a.b.id canon?
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:20:52 GMT

  In light of all the talk about canons lately, and the
comments to the effect that 'canonical' is a flexible 
term, perhaps it is time to construct a list of the
books that r.a.b readers feels qualify.

  I'd make that a firm suggestion, but I won't be able
to collect the recommendations for a couple weeks.  
If someone else is willing to take care of the collation
of recommendations, we could start the process now.
In view of the tendency on the net for the person who
makes the recommendation being the person who also does
the final work (not a bad principle), how about instead
some discussion about what we want the r.a.b. canon
to represent, and how to add books to it.

  Suggested process:  E-mail recommendations to the list
collator.  The collator posts the summary list to
r.a.b after some reasonable period. The books mentioned by 
multiple people listed first are then the tentative canon.
This is certainly a process that can be abused.  Perhaps
that's my Chicago background speaking though.

  Grounds for recommendations:
  
1) You have personally read the book.  Not just that
someone whose opinion you respect has recommended it,
but that you personally have.  A book (IMHO) shouldn't
be considered canonical without actually being read.

2) You feel that the book speaks to more than your own
experiences.  For example, there are two books by a 
particular author that I reread periodically.  One
strikes me a adressing issues (life, death, individuals
versus society, change versus security, ...) which are
relevant to many people regardless of their genetics.
The other I enjoy, but don't see it having any great 
importance to anyone else (or even myself, aside from 
the importance of amusement, which the other book satisfies 
also).

3) Partly in corrolary to 2, a book that you would
not object to seeing as required reading in high 
schools or college classes.

4) All books are eligible.  Many of the 'canonical'
listings exclude nonfiction or 'genre' fiction.  I don't
see any reason to make such an exclusion _a priori_.
The nonfiction inclusion is partly to finesse the 
question of whether, say, Utopia, was fiction or not.
Partly that I believe that some nonfiction books have
been more influential than many 'literary' works.

Happy reading,
Bob Grumbine
rmg3@grebyn.com
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: I need a word
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:17:31 GMT
Organization: Culturale Elit

In <1992Aug13.184144.21315@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk sez:
>
>I was once asked a somewhat related puzzler: a biologist friend was looking
>for a name for a certain kind of camouflage where an organism draws
>attention to a small confusingly-marked part of itself in order to dissuade
>predators.  He wanted an allusion to classical mythology.  About five years
>too late, I thought of a suitable parallel: the Biblical story in which
>Jacob fools his blind father Isaac into thinking he's his elder brother
>Esau by getting Isaac to feel his arm, which he has covered with a
>sheepskin to simulate Esau's hairier skin.  So we can call this the Jacob's
>Arm Strategy, unless someone has a neater analogue...

If it's classical you want, howzabout Odysseus' stratagem for escaping
from Polyphemus by riding under the ram?

I leave it to others who care (assuming any exist) to coin a term less
ungainly than pseudopolyphemy.

-- 
			Sold by weight, not by volume.
  Some settling of contents may have occurred during shipment and handling.

	   Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com     ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: REQUEST: "KILL your TV" bumperstickers
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:48:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug20.165100.18297@nmsu.edu> death@acca.nmsu.edu (The Grimm Reaper) writes:
>Kate Wilson (sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu) wrote:
>: >>> Ah, but I went through school with April N. (no middle name, just an
>: >>> initial) Paris.
>: 
>: ...and I went to school with Julius Caesar (Jr., yet!)
>: 
>: kate
>
>My mother teaches K-8 art at a local school and taught these brothers:
>Orangejello (uh-rahn-ju-lo) and Lemonjello (luh-mon-ju-lo).
>-----

I used to live in the Philippines, home of fabulous names.  I worked with
a woman named Ding Dong Delacruz.  My bank teller's name was Bam Boom
Hippolito.  Another woman I worked with was named Strawberry Shortcake.
My landlady's daughter's name was Princess Daisy (named after the schlock
novel and miniseries).  I could go on and on.  Remember, this is the 
country whose (former) president's son's name is Bong Bong.  


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.
            -- J. Danforth Quayle  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Anybody Else Read History?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:17:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug13.220752.25501@leland.Stanford.EDU>, rauchway@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Andrew Rauchway) writes...
>Yes, I do read history, but it's sort of my job.  I guess that still counts.
> 
>Clark is correct.  History is brimming with fascinating characters.  
>And best of all they are not subject to the stricture that binds many 
>writers of realistic fiction:  nobody can say, "C'mon, nobody would
>really *do* that. . ."  [corollary of Truth is stranger etc.]
> 
And while the topic is on the table, what do you history readers think of 
Historian Peter Gay and his thesis in _Freud for Historians_ ?

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re:  Unspoken Words
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:26:31 GMT

egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>
> This is why I've never made much progress with Tolstoy. By the end of page 1
> there are so many Mr. Thingummys that I'm completely confused.
>

    Which is why my bleeping algorithm of choice is the Modified Linus
    Van Pelt method, consisting of bleeping out everything _after_ the
    first letter of all the Mr.-Thingummy-type names. I heartily recommend 
    this method for reading Russian novels as it conteracts that cruel 
    streak in Russian authors which causes them to subtlely change the 
    spelling of each character's name in an almost, but not entirely, 
    unpredictable manner, dependent upon the relative formality of the 
    relationship between characters, the scene, the paragraph, whether 
    the current page number is prime, and, of course, just how much
    vodka the author had consumed that day. This method works astonishly 
    well for _War and Peace_ in which no two major characters have 
    names which start with the same letter, up until about page 600 
    when another B is introduced, and at which time it is necessary to 
    switch over to the Advanced Modified Linus Van Pelt Method which 
    consists, largely, of throwing the book at your sister.


--
                                                         vince@gda.cadence.com
	"The peasants revolted when they found out the Czar and the Tsar were
	 really the same person."
			- Woody Allen
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The nature of enlightened PC
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:07:10 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <234874@tiger.oxy.edu>, rooney@oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney) writes:
> In a recent article, thus wrote jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy):
# # The PC side has no-one to make
# # fun of their foes with a talent to match P. J. O'Rourke, and
# # we're holding Tom Wolfe in reserve.
# 
#       This is generally because the foes of PC (racists, sexists,
# heterosexists, other generic oppressors) aren't funny except as cruel
# absurdities illustrating colossal human stupidity.  (E.g., William
# Dannemeyer as Congressman.  Har-de-har-har.)

Hmmm.  My experience with PCers is that they are big on promoting
racism and sexism, but just from a non-traditional direction.
I suspect that the real reason that there is no P.J.O'Rourke on
the PC side is because the PCers are too fanatical to laugh.

#       And that the Estimable Professor McCarthy claims a pompous,
# priggish smartass whose primary method of relating to others is to
# smarmily sneer at them from the safe distance of his best-selling
# books hardly paints the Right in a favorable light, let alone as
# dispossessed subjects of left-wing persecution.

You seem to have confused "anti-PC" with "Right."  Many of the
"anti-PC" crowd are moderate to liberal sorts, who haven't forgotten
that the purpose of a university is the pursuit of knowledge, not
suppressing dissent.

#       Personally, I've no taste for the reactionary (in the non-
# ideological sense) orthodoxy of some (very few) extremists on college
# campuses today.  But I find that substituting "anti-racism" or
# "anti-sexism" for the loaded term "PC" in any commentary on the
# subject usually reveals the intended meaning of the ideologue in
# question.

Except that PC is a profoundly racist and sexist ideology -- it is
the dread fear that someone will be judged on the merits of their
arguments, rather than their skin color, sex, or proper choice of
a Politically Correct word.

# Michael Rooney
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
I can make myself popular on USENET again -- all I have to say is that I'm not 
disturbed by the support for North American Man-Boy Love Association in the 
homosexual community.  Being popular at a child's expense isn't worth it.
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Looking for a book list.
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:03:17 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Edward O'Brien writes:

	but I am frankly too lazy to choose my own books.  


Rebecca Lowell writes:

	If you can't be bothered to
	care about the reading list why do you think anyone would bother to
	care about listening to you TALK about the books, or read them, or come
	to class....   I would like it known that there are some great people
	in the U.W. English Department, they are not at all represented by this
	type of attitude.  I will do what I can to warn any baby lit heads away
	from your course.   oh GRRRRRRRRRR.
	
	No, I do not think that I am over reacting (based on what you posted.)
	


I didn't conclude that Mr. O'Brien was asking for a list for teaching.
He may have wanted one as a guide for himself.  A reasonable request.




William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: The scientific canon (was Re: The Literary Canon
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:55:58 GMT


ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:

> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:

>> I was disappointed that we didn't study math history as part of the math
>> curriculum.  I think that it's important to know where a discipline has been
>> (so to speak) when studying where it is (although usually we study where it
>> was 40 years ago, it seems) or to help fashion where it is going.

> As a mathematician, I disagree.  The history of mathematics is
> interesting, but too many schools have substituted "history of science
> and math" courses for science and math themselves.  In particular, these
> courses count toward the already minimal science and math requirement with
> the result that liberal arts students graduate from college with little or
> no real math or science background.

I think Evelyn misunderstands Barclay.  Barclay is one of those rare
individuals with degrees in the arts and the sciences (I believe in
English Literature, Mathematics and Physics).  I think Evelyn can be
forgiven for missing Barclay's switch of hats.

I gathered that Barkley was stating that it is a shame that more Math
students don't study the History of Mathematics in addition to studying
Math.  I don't think that she was suggesting that it be studied by
liberal arts majors instead of Mathematics.

As for the very real problem that Evelyn brings up, about science
requirements for liberal arts students -- I'm not sure there is an
easy solution.  When I was at Villanova in the early 70s, liberal
arts students were required to take a semester each of finite mathematics,
Calculus, physics, chemistry and biology.

The physics department chairman insisted that REAL physics be taught
in the class.  Consequently, students had two weeks of Electricity &
Magnetism, and one week of Relativity Theory thrown into the class.
The result was such that most liberal arts students learned very
little about physics.  I'd rather they took a History of Physics
class, or a Philosophy of Science class -- where they could at least
learn something understandable.

Mark
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: REQUEST: "KILL your TV" songs
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:56:01 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  "Blow up your TV
   Throw away the paper
   Move to country
   Build you a home.

   Plant a little garden
   Eat a lot of peaches
   Try to find Jesus
   On your own."
                      John Prine


---
Joel Hanes
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Liberals, Little Girls, and Boolean Logic
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Aug12.131957.14662@husc3.harvard.edu> <4484@news.duke.edu>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:41:32 GMT

In article <4484@news.duke.edu> bigham@acpub.duke.edu (Scott Bigham) writes:

   >Cramer versus the Z-man!  This oughta be interesting!  Bets, anyone?

  Sure. I bet the usual garbage will be forthcoming.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.fine,sci.philosophy.meta,talk.philosophy.misc,soc.culture.misc
From: turkel@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Turkel)
Subject: Reading recommendations for Aesthetics?
Originator: turkel@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:14:51 GMT


In the spirit of recent book lists which have been posted to various
newsgroups, which books would you recommend for a (self-guided)
reading course in aesthetics?  E-mail me suggestions, and I'll
summarize and repost.

Thanks,
Bill
turkel@unixg.ubc.ca
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Inconsistent Details -- Trivia
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:35:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1


In article <1992Aug19.004136.9433@crd.ge.com>, kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes...
>Why is it necessary that Milhone have only one set of keys, or
>that she keep her car key on the same ring?


The relative plausibility of the competing premises (authorial absent-
mindedness vs. two sets of keys) would seem to depend on the exact 
words used in the story. If she referred only to "her keys" in both
instances...I mean, wouldn't you KILL to know which set she used to
pry open the window -- primary or secondary?...
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14841 rec.humor:26390 alt.folklore.urban:21673 rec.arts.sf.misc:2612
From: csuah@warwick.ac.uk (~WISP at CU~)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:50:34 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <1992Aug18.140604.19294@wam.umd.edu> ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect) writes:
>In article <chris.714120892@rufus> chris@state.COM.AU (Chris Keane) writes:
>>ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect) writes:
>>
>>>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
>>WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.
>BILE FITTING RIG STOP, LIE SPEWED THIRST LIVER !!!!
IF YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE, AT LEAST DELIVER...

>(it has begun) !!!!!
>>Err...it wasn't me. Was it?
>>
>>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Chris Williams <csuah@uk.ac.warwick.csv> aka <csuah@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
"Tony Greig in the slips, legs apart, waiting for a tickle"
                                      Brian Johnson (thanks to A. Simha 8^>)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14793 ba.seminars:534
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.technical.books,ba.seminars
Subject: CLB EVENT NOTICE -- MOBILE PEN COMPUTING
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:27:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Forwarded for CLB

**EVENT ANNOUNCEMENT**EVENT ANNOUNCEMENT**EVENT ANNOUNCEMENT**

--------------------------------------------------------------
                     MOBILE PEN COMPUTING
--------------------------------------------------------------
       A PART OF "EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES LECTURE SERIES"



ROBERT CARR, co-founder of GO Corporation and system architect of
the Pen-based Operating System,  will discuss the current and
future opportunities for software developers who wish to develop
applications for mobile pen computers in general, and PenPoint
operating system in specific.


Date:     September 3, 1992
Time:     7:00 p.m. - 8:30 p.m.
          (check-in/registration at 6:30 pm)

Location: U.C. Santa Cruz Extension
          3120 De la Cruz Blvd.
          (Trimble at 101)

Fee:      Non-Credit, $10
          Enrollment limited.

To Register:  U.C. Santa Cruz Extension
              1-800-660-UNEX


UCSC Extension and Computer Literacy Bookshops continue their
lecture series featuring leading experts on innovative, recently
developed and rapidly evolving technologies.  Each lecture will
focus on a technology of particular interest to technical
professionals and science-minded residents of Silicon Valley.


If you would like to receive e-mail announcements
for upcoming store events, simply write to
"events-request@clbooks.com".

****************************************************

Computer Literacy Bookshops, Inc.
Marketing Department

Tracy Russ                 Cherrie C. Chiu
tracyr@clbooks.com         cherrie@clbooks.com
(408) 435-5015 x109        (408) 435-5015 x116

****************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14654 rec.humor:26118 alt.folklore.urban:21443 rec.arts.sf.misc:2586
From: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (LUCIFER)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:33:58 GMT
Reply-To: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

> (whole bunch of scientific arguments showing god's limits)

Who says god has to follow the rules he created?  For all we know, all these
natural laws came into existense when god got tired of interfering and
put the universe on autopilot.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14546 rec.humor:25955 alt.folklore.urban:21322 rec.arts.sf.misc:2568
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:25:34 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <12AUG199215265631@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.183918.24734@orlith.bates.edu>, nmiseroc@orlith.bates.edu (Nathan Miserocchi) writes...
>> 
>>OK I'VE F**CKING HAD IT!!!!!!!  
>If this doesn't stop, then I 
>know there is no god!

In *that* case, perhaps we'd better keep it going for a while.

	--Hal

-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14954 rec.humor:26729 alt.folklore.urban:21878 rec.arts.sf.misc:2655