HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Barenboim's Ring
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:58:56 +0100
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin

Jon Conrad (>) replies to Margaret Mikulska (>>):

[lots deleted here and there]
 
>>It must have been my subconsciousness, because I truly, truly cannot
>>stand Barenboim.
> 
> On the basis of a lot (not all) of his conducting, I could see why.
> 
> But, Margaret, he's done some fabulous work as a song accompanist.

(mischevious chuckles in background)

  Did you get to hear this year's Ring from Bayreuth, conducted by
said Barenboim; and if so, how do you think it compares with the
well-known and recently-much-discussed-in-this-newsgroup recordings?

  Actually, this is more than just an idle attempt at fire-lighting.
I have never really got to grips with Wagner, despite a partner who
worships at the shrine of Solti and who has attempted to lead me
towards the true faith with presents of Wagner's Greatest Hits records
and strategically placed copies of "Ring Resounding."  However, the
Ring Cycle was broadcast "live" on one of the radio stations here in
Germany and I found myself thoroughly enjoying it.

  I apologise if these performances were/are unheard in the States,
but having enjoyed it so much, I am thinking of buying a recording.
So if anyone heard this Ring, or was present in person, how does it
measure up?  Did I just stumble on something magical that won't be
available as a recording (boo)?  Was the Barenboim merely OK and
will I therefore be transported to even greater ecstasy by a good
recording?  Did I like this year's Bayreuth because it was a gross
travesty of how true Wagner should sound?

  Sadly I cannot just use my ears because my partner is living in 
the UK (sniff) and has kept the recordings she owns with her.  I 
know, I know, the local Bibliothek has tapes, but I'd like to hear 
what others think.

Struan
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: recommandation for good performances of choral works.
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:40:10 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <46966@dscatl.UUCP>, mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:
> In article <5605@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>>Thus spake dmnhieu@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Duy-Minh NHIEU):
>>>
>>>   If I were to study performances on choral music (ie: What constitute a 
>>>good choir or choral group?)
>>
>>>     big groups:  The King's college choir
>>>                  The Cambridge singers (John Rutter)
>>I find these groups to be very wimpy; there's a very English sound about them
>>that is (to my ears) weak and shrill.
> 
> I agree on the wimpiness, particularly on Rutter/Cambridge Singers
> from what I've heard.
> BUT IS THAT REALLY "THE ENGLISH SOUND" as touted, cooed and
> gurgled over by too many groups in the Northeast U.S.
YES! YES! YES! "The English Choral Tradition" is what these groups represent,
and "The English Choral Tradition" is what everyone around the world seems to
love. BUT see my posts passim on this subject.

> IF THAT is indeed "THE ENGIGH SOUND" then WHAT may I ask would you
> have to call the sound of Sir David Willcocks' Bach Choir of
> London?  The real question is, is what Americans call "the
> English sound" actually a promotional hoax?
The Bach choir is a choral society: and a hundred or so mostly untrained voices
make the same sound whether in London, New York or Berlin.
> 
> (I don't suggest that the school of training amongst Anglican
> choirs is a hoax, but that the promotional representation
> in America of what is THE Engish sound perhaps is.).)

It's not: the vast majority of smallish choirs (<40) sing in what they imagine
to be the same way. I happen to be lucky and have sung in a few choirs who
deliberately *don't* try to ape Kings and Rutter's band.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: cubsfan@cultnet.ch (wrobel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: publishers of contemporary music
Date: 3 Sep 92 11:14:15 GMT
Organization: CULTNET Communication Systems for Art & Science

A friend of mine who is a composer in Europe would like to try and 
publish in the US.  Does anyone know which publishing houses have a good 
attitude towards new music?

.......................................................................
Internet: cubsfan@cultnet.ch
CULTNET (SWITZERLAND) E.V.
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS FOR ART AND SCIENCE
.......................................................................
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:12468 rec.music.bluenote:6852
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Shostakovic's Preludes and Fugues recording: comments?
From: bruce@spss.com (Bruce Stephenson)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:25:54 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:

>In article <1992Sep8.123856.454@cine88.cineca.it>, simion@iveuncc.unive.it (Marco Simionato) writes:
>> ...
>> Tatiana Nikoleeva's recording and if it is currently available.
> ...
>and both said it wasn't as good as Nikolayeva's. I can probably get hold of the
>reviews themselves and type them in if more detail is needed.

>Nikolayeva's recording is with Hyperion.

Nikolayeva also has a newer recording, on Melodiya, which I like a lot.
I haven't heard the earlier ones.  The Melodiya set is reviewed in a
recent Fanfare.
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Le Sacre, Stravinski
Date: 12 Sep 92 17:23:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Sep11.054155.21462@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> smith@honesty.Stanford.EDU.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith) writes:
>In article <10SEP199213574384@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.170804.12479@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, smith@honesty.Stanford.EDU.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith) writes...
>>
>>>and Montreal is perhaps the most technically proficient
>>>Symphony Orchestra in the world today. 
>>
>>I guess I have not been keeping my eye on the Sports page.  When did they
>>win this title?
>>
>>Ron
>
>Sorry, no official award for Montreal, just a hypothesis i've made
>after hearing numerous demanding pieces by them.  The M.S.O. is very
>accurate, very in tune, more so than recent recordings of other symphony
>orchestras i've heard.

>Jeremy.


I hate to bring this up again[last time was in the Spring] but I hear from the
folks who play in the Montral Symphony that most of their recordings are put
together piece by piece.   This would explain the (a) lack of fire or
intensity[as one poster put it] and (b) the technical perfection.

Have you ever heard them live???


Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Trio
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Martinon (was Re: Mahler's 5th...)
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:35:54 GMT

In article <15067@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>> Jon Conrad writes:
>> 
>> Posted: 11 Sep 92 17:45:21 GMT
>> 
>> ([Martinon's] coruscating "Miraculous Mandarin" Suite is still about the
>> best, I think; will RCA ever reissue it?)
>> 
>> Jon Alan Conrad
>
>
>Hear, hear! I would like to see the Mandarin on a single CD with Martinon's
>versions of Daphnis & Chloe Suite No. 2 and Varese's Arcana, also stunning
>recordings. (Stranger CD combinations have happened...)

Martinon's Ravel and Debussy recordings were issued on four individual
EMI Studio disks a while back.  The Debussy disks are still available,
and the Ravel CD's were only recently cut out -- you should be able to 
find them at reduced price.

Martinon's recording of Martin's _Concerto for 7 wind instruments &c._,
_Arcana_'s LP-mate, is available as part of the commemorative Chicago
Symphony box.
From: demian@ocf.berkeley.edu (Demian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Help in translation
Date: 14 Sep 1992 18:18:52 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu


I don't know if this is the right newsgroup to ask this question but I'm
hopeful that someone will have the translation for me...
I need the translation to the poem September, by Hermann Hesse, which was
one of the poems used in Strauss's Four Last Songs, and it goes like this -

SEPTEMBER
Herman Hesse
 
Der Garten trauert,
Kuhl sinkt in die Blumen der Regen.
Der Sommer schauert
St{ll seinem Ende entgegen.
 
Golden tropft Blatt um Blatt
Nieder vom hohen Akazienbaum.
Sommer lachelt erstaunt und matt
In den sterbenden Gartentraum.
 
Lange noch bei den Rosen
Bleibt er stehen, sehnt sich nach Ruh.
Langsam tut er die grossen,
Mudegewordenen Augen zu.

I need a translation or perhaps someone can be kind enough to type the
translation from the recording notes.  Please email the translation, I 
really appreciate the help, thanks.

Sincerely,
Danny
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: *NEW* FAX # for Breitkopf und Haertel, WEISBADEN needed
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:01:19 GMT
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Quoted from <1992Sep5.182124.25753@athena.mit.edu> by pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky):
> I asked this question a year or so ago, and no one knew the answer.  My
> very idle curiosity still not satisfied, I'll ask again.
> 
> East Germany and West Germany each had their own post-war versions of
> Edition Peters and Breitkopf & Haertel.  Did these companies re-unify
> after 1989?  It was always nice in the East bloc to purchase very cheap,
> albeit low-quality Peters editions of basic quartet repertoire and the
> like, though I suppose not so nice for the low-paid people who actually
> did the publishing.

If you want Cheap, visit China, where you can buy exact reproductions of
Peters, Breitkopf and Henle Editions printed on something akin to toilet
paper for ridiculously low prices.  

Cheers,
Dale
--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Wagner Weekend and Karajan
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:37:54 GMT

In article <8SEP199211364972@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:

[Re: the Karajan/Dresden recording of Meistersinger]

>In light of the other thread of Herb vs. Georg, this recording was
>made with an (at the time) East German orchestra, not the BPO.
>How does this fit in with Herb's career?

Ok, I made the original "no guesting" statement about Karajan, so I
guess the burden is on me to answer.

I was referring, on the whole, to Karajan's "mature" period, say after
1960, when he was firmly established as music director of the Berlin PO.
Still, before that I don't know of him conducting too many different
groups either -- he was the main conductor of the Philharmonia when it
was founded by Walter Legge, he got started in Berlin, he was
occasionally lured to La Scala, at least for recording.  He probably
guested a bit in the 50s, but stopped doing so as soon as he could get
by without it (as most conductors do, in fact).

Once he was "established," his activity was pretty well restricted to:

Berlin Philharmonic (music director)
Vienna Philharmonic (by virtue of the years he spent as music director 
  of the Vienna State Opera, and also through the Salzburg Festival
  connection)
a relatively brief flirtation with the Orchestre de Paris
a period when he was chief conductor at La Scala

Exceptions?  I can recall a very few.  EMI set up the Meistersinger in
Dresden because that orchestra wanted to record more, and Karajan's
presence would get it into the limelight.  He was willing to make the
recording there (though the sessions were crammed into far fewer days
than would be usual for such a massive work), but there was no
concurrent concert or live performance.

When the Salzburg RING was shared with the Met in the mid 60s, part of
the deal was that Karajan would conduct it there.  He did do the
WALKEURE there during its first year, but backed out of most (or all?)
of the RHEINGOLDs the following year -- I remember that Borisav Klobucar
conducted the broadcast -- and of course never returned when the cycle
was resumed after a lapse of years.

No doubt there were a handful of other anomalies over the years.  But
basically, when a conductor gets to the level of a Karajan (or Solti or
Muti) in professional recognition, you're not going to see him fly in
for a week with your local orchestra.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: MUSICA database (Re: records-database)
Keywords: music databases
Date: 30 Aug 92 10:16:22 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <64879@cup.portal.com> Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com writes:
>[...using Alpha Four for a recording database...]

Is there anyone out there who uses or has had experience with the
MUSICA database software?  I would welcome comments, experiences,
anecdotes and contact info for those who do.  (re: IFCM, which has
it in Belgium.)  Thanks in advance.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Wagner Weekend
Organization: Visual
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:52:32 GMT

I write:

>> Can *anything* in music rival the gorgeous quintet in Act III
>> of "Die Meistersinger"?

Simon Crouch replies:

> Um....All of Parsifal?

Ah -- I can see I have an expert debater on my hands.  :-)  For you
are correct, of course.  However, I would defend myself by saying
that Parsifal ranks as a supreme spiritual experience, as compared
to the (mere?) rush one gets from Meistersinger.  I place Parsifal
on an elevated plane above all other Wagner, and all other opera.
It is the first Wagner I ever came to know.  It is the only Wagner
I have ever seen staged live, and for that I had to make a pilgrimage to
NY and shell out the bucks to stay in a hotel and attend the opening
night of the (then) new MET production with Domingo and Norman.  
If you knew how seldom I do such a thing, you'd know what an 
effect this work must have on me.

That said, I agree that a Wagner Anonymous group should be started.
I doubt I know anywhere near enough to run for president, but 
I would volunteer for "recording" secretary.  Can never turn down
another Wagner recording, you know ...  (Sorry.)

Rob
From: garretso@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Leon T. Garretson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Date: 14 Sep 1992 18:08:40 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Sep10.034443.3376@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:
>By way of introduction, I'd like to inform readers of a lovely article by
>"our own" Jon Alan Conrad in the current issue of Opera Quarterly about
>recordings of theatical vocal works by Leonard Bernstein.  He discusses and
>compares the various recordings for the shows.
>
	I actually saw _1600 Pennsylvania Avenue_ during it's brief life
	(not sure it made it past previews). It was indeed barfable, but
	mostly due to the dramatic conceit (each actor played multiple roles
	and acted as stage hands moving things around) and the book. True
	there is not much great music but there is some, usually when the
	lyrics are at their best. "Bless this House" a favorite of von Stade
	comes from this show.

	Another Bernstein show that bombed was not exactly "made" by him
	but bu Comden and Green from his earlier works. It consisted of
	numbers that had been cut while in rehearsal. Some fascinating
	things were left out of _On the Town_, _West Side Story_ and even
	a work written by Thornton Wilder that was never produced. Lenny
	eventually bought out the producers of this as it was too much of
	an embarrassment.

	A friend of mine was in the small cast, which is how I came to
	meet Bernstein. Two weeks after the show closed my friend and entered
	a theater to see theopening of Sondheim's _Pacific Overtures_. Who
	shoulb come running up but Lenny, putting his arm around my friend,
	saying, "Sorry about all that". He had just been trashed in the
	newspapers and spent several thousands of $$$$ to close the show
	yet felt obliged to apologize for causing someone to lose a job.

	This was a great, great man and an unmatched genius.
-- 
 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 + Self-denial is merely the indulgence          garretso@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu +
 + of a propensity to forego.                    Leon T. Garretson            +
 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Wagner Weekend and Karajan
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:48:13 GMT

In article <BuA1B6.IrE@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>
>								   But
>basically, when a conductor gets to the level of a Karajan (or Solti or
>Muti) in professional recognition, you're not going to see him fly in
>for a week with your local orchestra.

Not unless he's piloting his own jet aircraft.  He wasn't called "The Red
Baton" for nothing.

>Jon Alan Conrad


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: funeral music
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 19:21:00 GMT

In article <JWA.92Aug31194822@vipunen.hut.fi>, jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt) writes:
> 
>   I hope this doesn't sound morbid, but:
> 
>   There have been many requests for wedding music. It just came to my
>   mind, that on listening to one piece of music sometimes ago, I
>   caught myself thinking: "This is music I would like them play in
>   my funeral."
> 
>   Has anyone else had thoughts of same kind? Please email me your
>   favourites and I post a summary later on. I could use nearly all of
>   Bach, particularly his cantatas, works for solo string (violin, cello),
>   for organ. Some works from other composers also.
> 
>   PS. The piece I was listening, if someone wants to know, was the
>       last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony.
> --
> !
> !	Jyrki Wahlstedt

 Easy - any one of Vittoria's Requiem, Duarte Lobo's Requiem or (best
of all) Lassus' 4-part Requiem..

  and I'd insist on Pro Cantione Antiqua performing them (even if
that required the odd resurrection...)

 Neill Reid  -  inr@eccles.caltech.edu
From: lrozend@cs.vu.nl (Rozendaal L)
Subject: Le Sacre, Stravinski
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:14:42 GMT

I'd like to know which performance of 'Le sacre du printemps' is considered
the best. Any opinions?

--
Rhesa Rozendaal

--
lrozend@cs.vu.nl
Faculteit Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam.
--

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell)
Subject: Re: Want to be a viola player?
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:17:58 GMT


My sense of humor is almost as well developed as my modesty, never-
theless I must spring to the defence of the viola, an instrument
perpetually under assault by proponents of the tuba, the theremin
and the ondes Martinot(bet I got that wrong!)

Bach, by preference, played the viola when a church organ wasn't
handy.  He also wrote 6 Suites for the Viola, later transcribed for
the cello by Pablo Casals.

Mozart adored the viola, and played it in the greatest string quartet
of all time, a quartet whose other members were Haydn, Dittersdorf,
and Vanhal(a celebrated tuba player of the time).

Beethoven's first job was as a violist in the orchestra of the Elector
of Bonn.

Schubert played the viola in his family quartet.

Mendelssohn played the viola.

Brahms did _not_ play the viola -- an unexpected failing in an other-
wise worthy composer -- but he thought well enough of the instrument
to leave it unmuted in a 4tet where the other blokes/lassies had to
put their mutes on.

And last but not least(YOU READ IT HERE FIRST), . . . John Cage
played the viola.  Who can forget his virtuoso performance in a
piece of his own composition: 6 d, 5 hr, 4' 33"? (NB: a small
segment of this magnificent opus is often heard transcribed for
piano).

Later . . .
Alan McConnell
-- 
Alan McConnell             "What wondrous life is this I lead!
Pixel Analysis              Ripe apples drop about my head . ."
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Bromage)
Subject: Minuet by Beethoven
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:08:26 GMT


I am looking for a recording of Minuet and Scherzo in G by Beethoven which
was used as the theme for Fawlty Towers. If anyone knows of a recording
(and/or a score) please let me know by e-mail as I do not regularly read
this newsgroup.

Thanx in advance.

Cheers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bromage       brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   : 
Monash University                                : "I think thinking is 
Clayton, Victoria   				 :  so important"
 Australia                                       : 	-Baldrick
 						 :   
     May the source be with you			 :     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	All views expressed are my own except those which conflict with
	my personal opinions.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: L'Incoronazione de Poppea
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:43:58 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep10103902@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Jon Conrad writes:

>   Harnoncourt is quite good, but be careful that you're dealing with his
>   FIRST recording.  He made two, and the second (it went with a Ponnelle
>   tv production) is a butchered edition and a far inferior performance.
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>By "butchered" do you only mean shortened?  

Is this the recording for which someone composed orchestra parts for
much of the music?  The scores are almost exclusively contituo-only.

>Isn't some tightening up of
>those early operas legitimate?  Some are many hours long, but not all
>that time is filled with the kind of material we're accustomed to in
>opera.  

Well, "opera" as a regular phenomenon was all of five years old when 
Monteverdi wrote his last masterpiece.  So we don't have much info wrt
tradition to go on.  On the other hand, so much of the music in this 
one is utterly gorgeous, and the pace is wonderful, too.  

>I've read that it was quite acceptable in that era to socialize
>during the long stretches between highlights.  

Actually, this sort of behavior is not recorded that early.  Only with 
the rise of the aria in the second half of the century, and the 
corresponding rise in singers' fame, egos, etc., did opera become the 
string of hits with story as filler that we know.

>Britten's edition of
>Purcell's Fairy Queen and the short version of Poppea (Raymond Leppard?)
>are enjoyable recordings.  I'm not enough of a purist to object.

Well, the Leppard version is quite strange in many ways.  He composed
a lot of parts that weren't there.

Not that this is entirely unjustified; Prof. Tom Walker, with whom I
studied the Poppea material, thinks that both extant scores of the 
opera were prepared for use by traveling companies, so they may not
reflect the original sound at the Venice theatre where the work was
performed.  On the other hand, all through the 17th C, opera orchestras
were very small.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical