HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paigen@tfs.com (David Paigen)
Subject: Re: Spanish/Moorish Swordsmanship (was Re: More European History)
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:27:36 GMT

shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick) writes:

>The Spanish were the most feared swordsmen in Europe, although some saw their 
>style as mystical claptrap (mostly historians of fence, eg Castle) .  There 
>is significant amounts of material extant on what they did, all of it (so 
>far) untranslated.  They were very analytical, almost mystically so, and 
>divided the combat area into circles with associated arcs, tangents, cords 
>and diameters.  Movment was dictated as being along these lines for purposes 
>of attack and defense. The standard en garde was very high, feet narrowly 
>spaced, hand high in between carte and tierce, point directed towards the 
>opponents face.

And so on.  The Spanish certainly had, on paper, the most sophisticated
fencing style of the late middle ages / renaissance, however, I have
always wondered if they actually did all of that chord/circle/arc/etc.
stuff during a fight.

Has anyone seen a contemporary, firsthand account of a spaniard fighting?

----------------------->"Lay on, McDuff,    14th c. ideals in a 21st c. world
David Paigen            and damn'd be he        N: PLO Bush IRA CIA KKK
TRW Financial Systems   who first cries,        S: terrorism pipe bomb kill
paigen@tfs.com          'hold, enough!'"        A: assasination maim
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Kung Fu Krap... BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...
Followup-To: /dev/null, heaven willing
Summary: I never knew shit could stink like *this*
Keywords: Barf, puke, VomitSludge(tm), poor casting, poor writing, AAAAAACK!
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:11:09 GMT

Hole-E-Shee-It folks,

I just HAD to be the first to make noise about this new Kung Fu series.  It
ended about 5 minutes ago, thank God.  It was SO bad, it was almost good.
But seriously I cannot even figure where to start with the deprecations.

The dialog was as bad as anything I have ever heard.  The acting SUCKED...
that is, if you can call what was shown "acting".  The story line was trite
and thoroughly uninspired.  Too bad, really a shame.  This *could* have
been a really good showcase for the martial arts, and good entertainment,
as these sorts of things go. 

Oh well, chalk up another coup de grace for the pitiful putz's of prime time
programming.  Next.

	-Andy V.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Boston Internal MA School
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:18:21 GMT

Yang Jwing-Ming puts out some great books, and his seminars are 
apparently excellent as well.  As to the money, well, I'm a college
student and I might make $210 in the next two months.  I wouldn't
do it!

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Writing you from the I.U. student ghetto.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: J.R.Wood@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Re: Happenstance Weapons
Reply-To: J.R.Wood@lut.ac.uk (Jonathan Wood)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 11:52:49 GMT

In article <41570024@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> rdouglas@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Robert Douglas) writes:
>/ hpcuhe:rec.martial-arts / dude@losers.hacktic.nl (Dude) /  6:14 am  Jan 20, 1993 /
>In article <1993Jan14.193444.477@pages.com>, Kevin Sven Berg writes:
>
>>IMHO it's not just the (improvised) weapon/tool that's important, though:
>>the skills of the person using them are very important too.
>>I remember reading an article about somebody who was using a quarter as a 
>>weapon against somebody with a nunchaku. He just avoided the chucks, slipped
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 This just goes to show the skill of the person with the nunchaku, i.e poor

>>in, grabbed the guy's hair, and pushed the quarter into an eyesocket (his
>>opponent's eyesocket of course, not his own!). The quarter was an improvised
>>weapon, but I doubt if I'll ever use it that way..
>>----------
>
>This sounds a little bit bogus to me.  If you've got the person in that
>vulnerable of a position, why not just use your thumb.  Much better
>penetration.
>
>Rob Douglas ---------------------------------- rdouglas@cup.hp.com

 I agree totally!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: difference between quarterstaff and jo?
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:58:20 GMT

In article <C169q0.2w9@math.uwaterloo.ca> gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy Middleton) writes:
>Does anybody know how the mediaeval European quarterstaff was used?
>I'd like to see if there is any similarity to jo-jitsu techniques.
>
>Also, why is it called a "quarterstaff"?
>
I am given to understand that the proper grip for quarter staff exercises is 
with one hand a few inches from the butt, and the other one-quarter of the 
way up the staff, so that one quarter of it is between your hands.  Hence, "
quarter" grip and quarterstaff.

I cannot document this.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "Bob Truel" <truel@blueberry.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Taijetsu Question
Keywords: taijutsu, tai, te
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:58:58 -0500

In article <1993Jan20.152313.12371@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>In article <7444.897.uupcb@meaddata.com> todd.paulus%theweb@meaddata.com (Todd Paulus)  writes:
>>
>>I have a Taijetsu Question:  What is it?
>
>As near as I can make out, Tai Jutsu [sic] is an old-fashioned word for
>what most people nowadays would call Jujutsu.  There are a lot of these
>sorts of words, like Yawara.

In Aikido, we use "Tai Jutsu" or "Te Jutsu" (not sure of the
difference) to refer to empty handed techniques.  Te means hand.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Celtic History
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:38:01 GMT
Distribution: ucb
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> Hello Celtic historians.  Do you know anything about  Celts vs. Normans . In 
> 1066 William the Conquerer of Normandy (hence the word "Norman") invaded and 
> conquered what we know as England.  The people he invaded were Anglo-Saxons, 
> who I am guessing were a Celtic people.

Nope. As the history goes...I start with Celts being there. Romans
there for a while. Their influence fades. Angles, Saxons, and Jutes,
*Germanic* tribes, invade and take over England. Vikings raid
periodically, settle in some places. The Normans were vikings who
settled (read took) the section of France now known as Normandy. Lots
of argument with French king. William takes to sea and conquers the
anglo-saxons, who had conquered the celts. And so now we call pig-meat
pork instead of pig, and deer meat is venisson instead of deer. ;=)=
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo & Aikido
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:48:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Thank you for the posting on Judo & Aikido.  Could you please explain
briefly how JuJuitsu, as it is practiced, compares to the above.
From: toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (Jay toman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: WANTED: Women's self-defense success stories!
Date: 24 Jan 1993 06:57:19 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: bovine.uoregon.edu

In article <1993Jan19.052057.14896@trl.oz.au> djewell@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (David Jewell - Radio and Satellite Networks) writes:
>
>OK, here goes one.
>A woman I know, in her mid 20s, visited the US from Australia. She had about
>6 months Tae Kwon Do (traditional) training and was walking along one of the
>well known shopping streets in L.A. when she was approached by a man who
>tried to bum some money off her. She gave him a few dollars from her purse 
>and proceeded to walk on towards her car. The man was not happy with the 
>amount he had received and pressed her for more and then started to verbally
>abuse her. He positioned himself between her and the car and at this time
>she felt very threatened by him physically.
>She is not 100% sure of the exact combination she used but thinks it was
>a front kick to the mid-section followed by a high section knife hand strike.
>Anyway it had the desired effect and she made it safely to her car and away.
>Having spoken with this lady she has a strong personality although an
>outward timidity. Her timidity made her a victim, her personality gave her
>the courage to resist the intimidation and her training gave her the skill
>to get out of a dangerous situation. I think that the courage was the most
>important ingredient.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
I'm not sure how this is a "success" story. He didn't assault her, she
assaulted him. You can't beat on somebody just because they annoy you,
or scare you. The situation you describe just doesn't sound like it warrants
the use of (potentially deadly) force.

						J. Toman
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:36:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.001502.3882@craycos.com>, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) says most sayishly:
>In article <C1Dy8M.3Mr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>
>>Seriously.. what *IS* Greenoch?
>>
>
>Seriously, Greenoch is the second-best martial art in the whole, damned
>world...

Yes! :)  So what's THE best martial art in the whole, damned world?

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:44:18 GMT

shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>
>I read somewhere that if you open your hand into a star shape (fingers
>outstretched) and hold it front of a dog's face, it frightens them and
>brings them under control.  Is this true?  It was some book written by a
>group of monks (in the US) whose monastary's goal is the betterment
>between dog & man.  Very good book, but this hand thing sounds a little
>like BS.  Anyone confirm this?

Sure, in fact, you can easily confirm it yourself.  Try making
your hand look like a little star and stick it in the face of
the nearest hostile canine.  Please do post the results so we can
all learn from your experience.  I read somewhere that typing
with your toes is slower, but certainly possible.  ;-), sort of.
--
Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How do real fights start?
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:16:56 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <memo.898501@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>>I'd be interested to know (from a wide sample of people) how fights start.
>>
>>If you have been in any situation that "kicked off", how did it start?

Several years ago I was working the midnight shift at a 7-11
in a rough part of Denver. I had been studying Shaolin Kung Fu
for a while. I had a friend who was a Tae Kwon Do tournament
fighter who would sometimes come by to talk about training.

One night a fellow came in drunk and asserted that Kung Fu
was worthless hand-waving, that the Karate he learned in
the army was far superior. I responded that it might be so.
He attacked. I deflected the attack into a nearby counter,
and then ministered in a friendly way to his hands.

>>Was the first move a push, a grab, a punch, a kick, a headbutt etc?

It was a sidehand thrust toward my face, followed by another from the
other hand. The second one went into the counter.

>>What was the follow up and your counter etc.

I adhered to the outside of each strike with the same-side hand,
 and sidestepped the second one, deflecting it into the counter.

>>How much talk was there before the physical action started and what words
>>pushed it over the edge into becoming physical?

Very little. I believe my last words were 'you could be right.'

>>At what range did all of the above occur?

The talking happened at the extreme of my kicking range.
He lunged in for the hand attacks. After he smacked the counter I
was sympathetic and friendly. He calmed right down and
became friendly too. He was friendly every time I encounterd
him after that.
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Realism through kata?
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:02:31 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <4617@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1jpfg0INN6j4@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
> 
>>this realism is best developed through various Kata.
> 
> 	I don't understan how kata can be said to have anything to do
> wiht realism.  Especially judo kata, which are extremely formal and
> stylized.
> 								wr

I would have to probably agree in regards to judo kata (at least with
my limited exposure to them so far). Non-grappling arts kata (not sure
how to blanket class these), on the other hand, are a different story. 
Someone else said it best recently on this group: in the beginning, you 
learn the kata moves; later, you have the moves down and you can "see" 
the opponent; later still, _others_ watching can "see" the opponent...

There is a mindset to doing kata that's very important to its execution
and eventual application, and it's best expressed in the preceding 
statement. 

Now, I have seen some kata where it's very hard to see how things are
being applied. I would have to guess the form(s) in question have undergone
tweaking for reasons unknown. When this sort of (inevitable) modification
occurs, "realness" may indeed suffer. Some of the history associated with
Sensei Funakoshi indicates that he did some smoothing and modification of
the kata (the pinans come to mind) to downplay some of the more "dangerous"
techniques.

This is one reason why martial arts history can be so important. If you
can come across an earlier "version" of the form, you may well be surprised
at what you see.

I would suggest viewing the kata of other styles, especially higher belt
level kata (as done by advanced lower belts and black belts). It's probably
the rule of thumb that beginning kata can be downright, well, boring...

+---------+    Richard Travsky   RTRAVSKY @ UWYO . EDU
|         |    Division  of  Information  Technology
|     U W |    University of Wyoming   (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
|      *  |    "Wyoming is the capital of Denver." - a tourist
+---------+    "One of those square states." - another tourist
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:02:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

>But, as a parting
>shot, there were quite a few students who received the transmission
>scrolls from Sokaku Takeda,  Choi not being one of them!

Wondering out loud...

Were all those receiving the transmission scrolls from Takeda, Sogaku of 
Japanese ancestry?

Just curious.

Ray
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: WANTED: Women's self-defense success stories!
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:01:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1993Jan25.200121.8364
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <C1F5II.816@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com writes:
>In article <1jtekfINNj4r@pith.uoregon.edu>, toman@bovine.uoregon.edu
>(Jay toman) writes:
>|> I'm not sure how this is a "success" story. He didn't assault her, she
>|> assaulted him. You can't beat on somebody just because they annoy you,
>|> or scare you. The situation you describe just doesn't sound like it warrants
>      ^^^^^
> 
>I believe that Bernard Goetz(sp?) proved otherwise.  He actually killed
>someone because he felt threatened.

	Nope.  Goetz did NOT kill anyone.  He shot four men that were
	threatening him with a screwdriver.  If that is not reason to 
	feel threatened, then pray tell, what is?

	The men he shot all recovered, though one is now confined to a
	wheel chair.  Since then one has been charged with two rapes,
	another with robbery, the remaining ambulatory man may have been
	killed.  The wheelchair bound guy I think is too much a physical
	vegetable to cause anyone any more harm.

	For the last time, Goetz did not kill his targets... unfortunately.

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:54:47 -0500 
From: Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com
Subject: Openings.

	A "philosophical" disagreement has arisen in email, and I
thought that I'd throw it out on the net for discussion.

	It has to do with openings, suki, or whatever you wish to call
them.

	We have 2 different viewpoints on the matter:

	1) No matter how good the martial artist is, there are _always_
openings which can be exploited by their opponent(s).

	2) The _best_ martial artists do not give their opponents _any_
openings to exploit. Either by timing, or positioning, the openings
only occur when and where their opponent(s) cannot take advantage of them.

	Stephen
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Lucidity & MA
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:10:44 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>	1) Practice sparring, but make sure that while sparring, you
>don't let your "lizard brain" take over. That means that you have to

Nonononono! You need the lizard. The lizard is quick. The lizard is strong.
The lizard is not affected by emotion. The lizard keeps you alive.

Therei s no way to fake risk - you always know that in the end event you'll
be OK. This is a problem for combat sports for obvious reasons. Take up 
an alternative high risk sport where success does not mean damaging 
someone (the lizard unfortunately knows no self restraint!). Fro instance
climbing. You'll know when you're getting it right cos when the lizard
wakes, the world will go quiet, into slow motion, you'lll have more strength
than you knew and you will survive. The lizard is more use to you than any
number of practised techniques. It is a state of consciousness that can only
be refined, having experienced it once. How you provoke the first time to order
to start the ball rolling, I have no idea.

The more you use it, the sooner it cuts in. This is a good reason not to 
overdo it - the lizard is not a good partygoer.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: Re: EVIL BLACK BELTS
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:52:51 GMT

= shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) write:
=
=BTW, thanks, everyone, for your replies on "Fights & blackbelt
=confidence."  While that topic still exists, have any of you known any
="evil" blackbelts?  I.e., blackbelts who use their knowledge and prowess
=in bad ways.. beating people up, etc.  It's a scary thing. :)
=
=

Yes, I have.  The gentleman in question used to go to bars, do some 
bragging to get somebody to start a fight with him.  He then beat the
snot out of the offending person.

Until one night, one little guy this black belt was beating up pulled
a gun and shot out both the black belt's knee caps.

This black belt had ten-fifteen years of experience in TKD, from Illinois.

What sorry lesson, but I learned it well.

B. Webb, Dallas,Tx
Japan Shotokan Karate.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gritz@seas.gwu.edu (Larry Gritz)
Subject: Re: TKD rule survey
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:33:19 GMT

In article <C1In3I.8K7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
> ...How would people rule the following?
>
>1.  [kick] to back of thigh to jam opponent's back spin kick.
>2.  Push kick to opponent's butt to stop his back side kick

I teach my students both of these techniques.  I would say that it
should be perfectly legal, *as long as it isn't too forceful*.  What
does that mean?  Well, if it's more like a push, it's okay.  If it
becomes a strong kick to the back or leg, then it's illegal.

	-- Larry Gritz

--
Larry Gritz,   gritz@seas.gwu.edu	  Dept. of EE & CS
The George Washington University          801  22nd St. NW, Rm. T-624G
(202) 994-0460 (voice) -0227 (fax)	  Washington, DC 20052
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts