From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormon Claims Answered 9
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:05:37 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Sep28.164646.59247@cc.usu.edu> slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:
>Regarding LDS prophets:
>
>In article <Bv9ox1.BAt@acsu.buffalo.edu>, 
>psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:
>[...]
>> Is there any way that we could use a standard to discern if 
>> they are false? How do *we* know that they are false?
>
>For the LDS, the standrad expressed in D&C 50:19-24 seems to be a
>good one.  The witness of the Holy Sspirit is the best standard
>of all.  What greater proofcan there be than from God?
>
>This is all by LDS standards.  I'm sure that there are other
>standards that could be used to determine whether a prophet was
>true or false, but the LDS might not accept the standards that
>are provided to to so, so one must use a standard that the LDS
>accept in order to make any difference to them.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu


There is a standard to discern if a Prophet is indeed a true or false
Prophet.  By the Bible!  You see, in the Bible, we are instructed to,
"Test EVERYthing"  1 Thess 5:21.  The Bereans in the 17th chapter of
Acts were noted as "the more noble type"  because they "seached the
Scriptures daily to see if the things Paul said were true"  Acts 17:11
So, we must do the same when we have a question about wether a Prophet
is true or false.

If you will look in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, you will read this:

     "If there arise among you a prophet or dreamer of dreams
      and giveth thee a sign or a wonder. And the sign or wonder
      comes to pass, whereof he spake unto thee saying, "Let us
      go after other Gods, which thou hast not known, and let us
      serve them, Thou shalt not harken unto the words or that
      prophet or dreamer of dreams."

>From this passage we can deduce several things:

1) That it IS possible for a false prophet to arise.
2) It IS possible for a false prophet to predict some things and they
   come to pass.

So we know that there is a possibility of a false prophet, and that he
does have the abibilty to predict things correctly! So then we say,
well how do we know which one is false and which is correct if they both
can predict correctly?  It is not possible to judge a prophet by
wether or not some of his predictions are true.

Well, for this answer, we can look at Deuteronomy 18:22

     "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing
      follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord
      hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously:
      thou shalt not be afraid of him"

So from this we can disern a few more things:
1) If a prophet predicts something (in the name of the Lord of course)
   and it does not come true, then THAT is a false prophet.  So the
2) So then the Biblical test for a Prophet is that he has to have a 100%
   accuracy rate. Because if he predicts ONE thing that does not come to
   pass, then he is a false prophet.

So then, we can easy use this test to test all prophets.  All the Biblical
prophets had this 100% accuracy.  They were prophets from God.  This test
should be applied to all those that claim to be a prophet from God.  This
is the way that God has given us to test to see of He is actually speaking
through that person.  Was Joseph Smith a true prophet of God?  If so,
then we can expect all of his prophecies to have come true then right?
According to this Biblical test, YES!

So lets look at one of his prophecies!

April 1843:
     "I have no doubt of the truth. Were I going to prophesy, I
      would say the end of the world would not come in 1844,5,6,
      or in forty years. There are those of the rising generation
      who shall not taste death till Christ comes.  I was once
      praying earnestly upon this subject, and a voice said unto
      me, "My son, if thou livest until thou are eighty-fove years
      of age, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man."....
      "I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written-
      the Son Of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am
      eighty-five years old."
                               History of the Church Vol. 5 p. 336

Christ did not come back at this time (when Joseph would have been 85
years old) and everyone that was living in 1843 is now dead.  So when
we put Joseph to the Biblcal test of a prophet, he fails the test as a
true prophet of God.   There are many other false prophecies that are
indeed prophecies and NOT "speculation" as Jason likes to imply.  If
anyone is interested I can post more.  This is sufficient though since
the Bible tells us that one false prophet is enough to consider someone
a false prophet, just as one murder is enough to consider someone a
murderer.

Oh, BTW, Brigham had quite a few prophecies (not "speculations") that
did not come to pass.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism