HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Works Split Between 2 CD's (was Best Tchaikov...)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:17:26 GMT

In article <17467@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>> David Martland writes:
>>
>> WHILE I am on the subject - I've just realised that we are talking in the
>> area of one of my pet FLAMES .... the Mravinsky DG version is available in
>> a boxed set - a bargain you may say - of Symphonies 4,5, and 6.   THE
>> IDIOTS at DG have seen fit to split one of the symphonies (I think it is
>> #5) over 2 CDS.   I did not buy a CD player to have to get up half way
>> through such pieces.  Other companies do the same, although they don't
>> always mess up in the same place, or the same symphony.  I do not believe
>> that the cost of doing the thing properly - putting the symphonies on to a
>> CD each should significantly increase the cost of the sets.
>>
>> I will absolutely not buy any CD which has the music split in such a way -
>> so I'm sticking to my old LPs, and the (relatively) new Jansonn set.
>>
>> There are other sets of symphonies which get messed up from time to time -
>> including "bargain" sets of the SIbelius symphonies. Does anyone else feel
>> strongly about this?
>>
>
>
>I guess you don't listen to too many opera recordings then? :-()

The worst culprit I know is the MCA Mahler 1&2 conducted by Scherchen.
The layout is as follows:
CD 1	Mahler 2: I II III IV & V (pt 1)
CD 2	Mahler 2: V (pt 2); Mahler i: I II III & IV
the split in the last movement of the Resurrection is at *exactly* the
same point where it was on LP... And in order to preserve this split
they put the 1st symphony *after* the 2nd, so they don't even have the
excuse of putting them on in chronological order (unless you argue
that the 1st is in the 1899 revision, and therefore post-dates the
2nd...) Not only that, but they could have fitted all of the 1st and
then the 1st movement of the Resurrection - and Mahler wanted a break
(of 'at least 5 minutes') after that movement anyway.. But  it's such
a great performance...

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sgp@Ingres.COM (the happy existentialist)
Subject: Re: Speaking of the Solti Ring...
Reply-To: sgp@Ingres.COM (the happy existentialist)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:38:27 GMT

In article <17466@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>I saw in a recent issue of The Gramophone that the famous (BBC?) documentary
>on the production of the Decca Ring has been issued on video disk and tape. I
>remember watching this when it was aired in the 60's and would like to get my
>hands on a copy. Does anyone know if it has been released in North America
>yet?

sighted in berkeley tower of records saturday morning.  also there
is some whopping reissue project (phillips i think) called the "bayreuth
edition".  i didn't look close but it appears to have most or all
of wagner's operas from bayreuth performances.  the ring was the
boulez version, i don't remember the others.  snappy packaging, inexpensive;
operas available seperately or in one big crate.  i'd be curious
about what folks thought of the individual performances since they were
cheap and so am i!

			sgp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: tonality and modern music
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:29:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.075010.10573@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
|In article <1992Nov18.002107.24042@credence.com> jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:

|>This is the only thing I really balk at. Certainly no other culture's
|>traditional music is based on what we call "functional harmony", but
|>I would be very surprised to find music from a non-western tradition
|>which neither a) has a pitch center, or b) doesn't use some (probably
|>unequal-tempered) version or subset of a diatonic scale. 
|
|Well, there's an Egyptian 5-equal scale, for what it's worth.  Also,
|many musics use supersets of the diatonic scale or something like
|it.  See India, for instance.

This is interesting. Does this Egyptian music have pitch centers?

In the case of India, I know b) does not apply, but I believe a) does.
Some pitches in a raag are more important than others (and important pitches
are often a fifth apart), so I would not classify the music as atonal. 

						Jeff Winslow
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: tangents Re: Considering 4'33''
Date: 23 Nov 1992 13:11:28 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Stephen Smoliar (smoliar@whitehead.iss.nus.sg) wrote:
: I once heard James Randi talk about this guy.  He really could only distinguish
: relatively coarse features.  Basically, he seemed to be able to memorize what
: the disks looked like and associate those memories with knowledge of their
: contents.  If he could distinguish difference performances of the same work,
: it was only because he probably had an eidetic memory of the loud/soft
: patterns.  This would mean that telling one performance from another was
: as difficult as telling one composition from another.

I still have the article at home I clipped from Time, which I found in
my dentists waiting room. I'll dig it out, and post it. He could only
read romantic or earlier, but it wasn't recognition of the shape. It was
the pattern.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: notation of accidentals [?]
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:10:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.013019.6543@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.003701.15474@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:

>>The natural notation should be (to me) _relative_
>>to the accidental at the clef, that is if the note
>>is # at the clef then # --> x, natural --> # and
>>b --> natural, if the note is b at the clef then
>># --> natural, natural --> flat and b --> bb, and
>>so on...
>
>In article <1992Nov19.021846.22259@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>>There's a certain logic to that idea, but it also means that you have
>>to read each note in light of what's gone before.  REmember that 
>>accidentals are also used to cancel naturals.

>I don't quite understand. Let's say you're in F major. Suppose you
>want to say "b natural", then you'd write "b sharp".
>Then suppose you want to cancel "b natural" and revert to "b flat".
>You'd write "b natural".

Ah, OK.  But this requires actually remembering the key sig at all times,
which we don't necessarily do since we don't solmize most of the time.

>This reverts you to what's at the clef signature. Everything should
>be relative to the clef signature as long as that signature is in force.

>But maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

Nope, my fault.  However, note that forgetting the key sig is fatal
in your system.  One can add accidentals for emphasis or mnemonic purposes
in the current system--not so in yours.  I think the current one allows
for some comforting redundancy.

>Roger:
>>The accidentals # and b (natural is a very recent invention) were
>>originally solmization instructions.  b meant "this is 'fa'"; #
>>meant "this is mi."  In other words, one raised a note by giving it
>>a sharp because that meant one had to sing the note above it as fa,
>>and mi-fa is a half-step.

>Funny. This is _almost_ how I used to think of flats and sharps when
>I was a child. Actually I used to think of a flat as "this is fa" (F)
>and a sharp as "this is si" (B), because of the upwards attraction
>of a sharped note upwards (like si is attracted to do), and the downwards
>attraction of the flat note downards (like fa is attracted to mi.)

Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.  Then comes the coda...

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Re: Tannhauser
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:40:33 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Keywords: Wagner, Tannhauser, Melchior, Szell, Konwitchny

In article <By5yJI.2E0@sci.kun.nl> gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse) writes:
>Recently the available recordings of Wagner's Ring and Tristan und Isolde
>have been discussed on the net. Now I want to start a similar discussion
>about the recordings of Tannhauser.
>
>Can anybody (Jon?) name me a totally satisfying Tannhauser? (I would like to
>hear Melchior in a stereo recording by Walter Legge and Furtwangler
>conducting, but I'm afraid nobody can help me with that :-))
>
>Thanks, 
>
>Bart 
>gerritse@sci.kun.nl
>

I own the Solti on London.  It features Christa Ludwig as Venus, Rene Kollo as
Tannhauser, and Helga Dernesch (sp) as Elisabeth.  The sound quality is great!
You cannot go wrong with this recording.  

My only problem with it is that I have never come to love THE MUSIC.  IMHO, this
is the least satisfying Wagner opera.  I guess my problem is that I really like
having some pure evil in my opera, and there is just no wickedness in this
piece.  Any thoughts?
 
 Mike Hurben
		      "You are married to an abstraction." 
			 - comment made to Alma Mahler
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Why Buy/Switch to CD's?
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:50:04 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

In my mind, the only disadvantage to CDs is the small packaging.  This is
particularly noticible with boxed sets: I often miss the big booklet and
elaborate packaging that goes with, say, an LP set of Beethoven String Quartets
or Haydn Symphonies.

Other than that, I love CDs!

John
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The worst composer ever
Date: 23 Nov 1992 13:21:19 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Richard Smith (r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca) wrote:
: It's a poll--who do you think is the worst famous composer of them all?
: 
: Let me start it off. I think it's Delius. Then again maybe it's Arthur 
: Bliss.

I adore passionately Bliss's Piano Concerto, his Mediations on a Theme
of John Blow, his string quartets, his Morning Heroes, His music for
Strings, Miracle in the Gorbals, Checkmate, Adam Zero, viola sonata,
Edinburgh overture, discourse for orchestra.

My list of Delius masterpieces would run to many screens and bore anyone
else senseless, but I would have to include his String Quartets, his
Requiem, his Idyll, his violin concerto (any sceptics please see Cooke's
analysis of it), his various orchestral songs, his violin sonatas. This
doesn't mention his many fine, though idiosyncratic, tone poems.
 
Both these composers wrote with subtlety. Do you know what that means? I
note that you're a student.business, so you probably couldn't even trip
over it in the gloom of whatever it is that adumbrates your soul.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: Re: notation of accidentals [?]
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:50:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.013019.6543@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>[...] Let's say you're in F major. Suppose you
>want to say "b natural", then you'd write "b sharp".
>Then suppose you want to cancel "b natural" and revert to "b flat".
>You'd write "b natural".

In article <1992Nov20.161017.19397@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>[...] But this requires actually remembering the key sig at all times,
>which we don't necessarily do since we don't solmize most of the time.

>[...] However, note that forgetting the key sig is fatal
>in your system.  One can add accidentals for emphasis or mnemonic purposes
>in the current system--not so in yours.  I think the current one allows
>for some comforting redundancy.

Concerning the necessity of remembering the key signature I say, you already
have to constantly remember it for the notes with the "null accident", that
is the notes with nothing in front of them, or you'll think, sing or play the
wrong notes. I simply don't see how you could get away with forgetting the
signature and still think, sing or play the right notes.

The system above at least is uniform in that regard. If one thinks of the
signature as indicating the choice of one "diatonic set", "my" system -- the
quotes because apparently such a system was in use at some point for a limited
amount of time at least in some places (see Noam Elkies's posting) -- uses
flats and sharps uniformly as chromatisms and naturals as what brings you to
your main diatonic set; this is not the case with the present system. To me
that's more satisfying for the eye. (Of course you can get used to the current
system. I did too. But then that's not saying much. One gets used to anything.)

Concerning the redundancy it is certainly in a sense the main advantage of
the current system. However one can always use redundant naturals. True they
don't tell you "this is sharp" or "this is flat" but merely "think of the
key signature" (which brings us back to your first concern) Now I don't know
many people who forget they're reading a piece in flatted signature and
suddently think there's a sharped signature there.

Overall my opinion is the advantages of this system outweigh its disadvantages,
but obviously many people disagree now and disagreed in the past.

I hope that we've given due consideration to all the respective merits
and inconvenients of both system. If anyone doesn't think so please feel
free to comment.

Jacob

PS: and another bright idea of mine is that newsreaders should stop piling up
">>>>"'s when a thread gets involved, and instead should present one sequential
image of the exchange so far with _one_ ">" that can be answered to (btw,
that can be done only if the internal format they use for files is not a flat
file) but I suspect discussion of that doesn't belong here, even though the
entire universe I'm sure would benefit if this became one day the case...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: RVW Tuba Concerto
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:51:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.020453.16253@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
>Concerning Ralph Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto, it was recorded at least once
>that I know of, with John Fletcher as soloist with the London Symphony 
>Orchestra, Andre Previn conducting.  It was coupled with Symphony #5 and Three 
>Portraits from The England of Elizabeth.  A very nice album with a good variety
>of RVW works.  Some of you folks may flame Previn, but he does good RVW.  The 

I flame Previn sometimes, but I agree that he does good RVW.  This is an
excellent reading of the 5th.  Better IMHO than Boult's last reading (EMI).
This Tuba conc. performance is good, too.

-chris
From: erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Satie:  3 Pieces Froides
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:24:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxtHLB.36w
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


While searching for some Villa-Lobos sheet music, I ran across the ``Trois  
Pieces Froides'' of Erik Satie.  The 2nd is clearly a parody of the 1st of  
Schoenberg's ``Drei Klavierstuecke'', but what are the other two about?

What are some of Satie's other parody pieces?

Thanks,

Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:38:28 GMT

In article <Yf0o_iG00iV1E_5IhC@andrew.cmu.edu>, Aaron Paul Kozbelt <ak3s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>  
> There must be many other memorable quotes about music, composers, etc.
> I'd like to hear others.

"We've been rehearsing for two hours - and we're still playing the
same bloody tune!" Sir Thomas Beecham, rehearsing Gotterdammerung (I
think).

"The evening became tedious rather earlier than usual" Sir Neville
Cardus on a performance of Parsifal.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smalin@well.sf.ca.us (Stephen Malinowski)
Subject: Re: The worst composer ever
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:06:01 GMT


I take it you mean the worst _great_ composer of them all.
The truly worst ones, nobody knows of (or hardly anybody).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chieu@pta.pyramid.com.au (Chieu Tran)
Subject: Re: Brahms Violin Concerto
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:28:04 GMT

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:

>Can anyone out there recommend a really passionate performance of the Brahms
>Violin Concerto.  I've already heard Stern/Ormandy on CBS and Perlman/Giulini
>on Angel, plus a few by relatively obscure East European orchestra whose names
>escape me now.  They are all lacking for some reason or other.  I've also heard
>a live TV version by Nadja Salerno Sonnenberg, and am tempted to get her
>studio recording, but I've found she's not as exciting in the studio.

>Also, a friend whose musical opinion I respect says Anna-Sophie Mutter's with
>von Karajan on DG is disappointing as well.  I thought that would be 
>definitive.

>Any suggestions?

I have the Krebbers/Haitink with the Concertgebouw Orchestra on Philips
and like it very much.  The performance is spontaneous and exciting, yet
tender and poetic, particularly in the slow passages.
-- 
      -m-------  Chieu Tran                UUCP: pyramid!pta!chieu
    ---mmm-----  Pyramid Technology Corp.  INTERNET: chieu@pta.pyramid.com.au
  -----mmmmm---  403 Pacific Highway       VOICE: +61 2 901 5333
-------mmmmmmm-  Artarmon 2064 Australia   FAX: +61 2 906 4353
From: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Wedding Music (2 Questions)
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:27:55 GMT
Reply-To: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH

A friend of mine is getting married on December 12th...yes, that's
in less than 3 weeks...and she is desperate to find out the name
of the piece of music played during the TV ads for the 1992
Summer Olympic Games in Barcelona.  

In addition, she is interested in recommendations for music to be
played before the wedding; while the ushers are seating the guests.
She needs about 30 minutes of music.  She has a CD of "wedding music,"
but doesn't seem entirely pleased with it.  

Just to give you a hint of her taste...her fiance wanted Beethoven's
9th to be played as he entered the church (!), but she wanted something
much softer and prettier...and is leaning toward playing some Yanni (sp).

Anyway, finding out the name of the music played during the Olympic ads
is much more important than the seating music, so, please...if you
have that info...please email me directly so I can ease this frazzled
bride's mind.

Thanks!


-- 
Paulette Leeper                               paulette.leeper@daytonOH.NCR.COM
NCR Corporate Data Planning & Admin              ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!pleeper
++++++++++++++++513-445-6289   VP 622-6289   FAX 513-445-2468+++++++++++++++++
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: King's Singers oops
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:38:05 GMT
Organization: University of Western Ontario

Sorry, I bow to superior collective wisdom. The King's Singers are a 
wonderful group of great musicians. When i first got to know them back in 
the seventies they did mostly early music with the occasional foray into 
modern and pop music. For an awfully long time they seemed to do nothing 
but pop, though I know they a lot of early music even then. I was being 
unfair. Sorry.

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: El Salon Mexico 
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:40:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.011355.17747@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>
>This may be a silly reason to post, but... I recently piked up some
>amazing recordings that simply blew my socks off.
[stuff deleted]

>Secondly, how about the Prokofiev piano concertos conducted by Neeme
>Jarvi on Chandos?                                 ^^^^^^^^^

But who played the piano????????????



Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dwong@chopsuey.pico (David G. Wong - VIP user)
Subject: Re: Sheet music editor
Reply-To: dwong@chopsuey.pico
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:00:54 GMT

In article 721584992@gmd.de, icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking) writes:
>In <1992Nov11.111556.11655@crash> cwr@crash.cts.com (Will Rose) writes:
>
>>A friend teaches the violin, and is looking for a sheet music editor
>>to run on an IBM PC and print out the manuscripts for his students. [...]
>
>If he already has and knows TeX he may use MusicTeX available per anoymous
>ftp from here:
>
>  ftp.gmd.de    music/musictex/musictex.zip     et.a.
>
>A mailing list for MusicTeX may be subscribed at:  mutex-request@stolaf.edu
>
>Shareware TeX (e.g. emTeX) is available from a lot of TeX-servers.
>
>Werner
>--
>Werner Icking        Werner.Icking@gmd.de        (+49 2241) 14-2443     __o
>GMD - Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH          _`\<,_
>Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O.Box 1316, D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany   (_)/ (_)
>                             "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod." ~~~~~~~~~~~


is there a manual that comes with this?  i got the musictex.zip thru ftp, but can't
find any README or doc files with it.  how about a workstation version? does it exist?

regards,

dw
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Date: 18 Nov 1992 11:05:57 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

haus der luge (al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca) wrote:

[the usual pro-Cageian stuff]

My dear der luge: this is no longer even remotely interesting. This
type of stuff really only impresses people who are bored listening to,
or playing music. It is a wonderful dinner time conversation point, but
then, so is nearly everything else in the universe.

"Hey wouldn't it be neat to write a piece that was all rests, and no
notes?"

"Have you finished with the ketchup yet, John?"

"What, ketchup with mushrooms? Bleergh! Anyway, I mean it. Just think
people could be aware of the nises that go on all around, all the time,
during pieces of music"

[The most inebriated member of the dinner party now belches loudly, and
everyone laughs crapulently]

"Oh come on John - it's a good idea, but it would only ever be an idea.
I mean who would do it?"

"I bet I could get every half-assed art student in the world doing it
regularly even long after I'm dead"

"I'd take you up on that, but I couldn't collect!"

and then the talk would shift to profundities like the hidden stoichiasms
and overt pleonasms of Yoko Ono and stuff like that. Little did the
"gang" realise that from these small beginnings...

It really needs Gary Larson to illustrate it. John cage humming 4-33 to
himself in the bath. His mother rapping on the door saying "For
Chrissake, Johnny, pipe down - the neigbours are complaining"