From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Personal Query: Jewish Heritage
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:47:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


 RAL> From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
 RAL> Message-ID: <9209040245.AA24616@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
          -=> Quoting Robert A. Levene to Bill Carlson <=-
 RAL> Moshiach ben Yosef, of course.  The death of every tzaddik
 RAL> atones in the sense of the good which their legacy inspires.
     Yes; but this passage goes on to comment on His blood atoning.
     The "attonement" we see, (even in Rabbinic lit.), that Messiah
     ben-Yosef gives, is far greater - and more in depth than a
     simple "generic" understanding:
        Our Rabbis expound this in a Midrash of the King Messiah
        saying,  He  shall be higher than Abraham, exalted above
        Moses, and loftier than the ministering angels.
        -R.Sa'adyah Ibn Danan {Midrash Tanchuma}
Rabbi Moshe el-Sheikh/[AlSheikh], (a leading Rabbi of Safed...)
"I will do yet a third thing,  and that is, that  'they shall look unto
Me,'  for they  shall lift up their eyes unto Me in perfect repentance,
when they see Him Whom they pierced, that is Messiah,the Son of Joseph;
for  our  Rabbi's, of  blessed memory, have said that He will take upon
Himself all  the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain in the war to
make  an  atonement  in  such  manner  that it shall be accounted as if
Israel  had  pierced  Him, for on account of their sin He has died; and
therefore,in order that it may be reckoned to them as perfect atonement
they  will  repent  and  look to the Blessed One, saying, that there is
none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of Him who died
for their sin; this is the meaning of 'They shall look upon Me...'"
 RAL> we may disagree on what Jesus was, but surely he wasn't an animal
 RAL> to whom Zevachim would apply.
     Of course not.  That is why the attonement was complete.  The
     Shedding of blood of an animal, has been seen since Adam and
     Chavah sinned - from the skins of the animals provided for them
     by HaShem; on though the sacrifice from the flock of Abel; and
     on to the Temple Sacrifices.  The blood shed provided a covering
     and a substitution, (the life is in the blood), for the sins of
     the offerer. - The innocent was dying for the guilty, - as G-d
     permitted, this blood in place of man's blood, as the penalty for
     sin is death.  But, though the sacrifice was innocent, it was
     after all, the shed blood of an animal for the sins of a man.
     Yes you're right, it's not a Torah requirement for human sacrifice
     and those who killed Y'shua, were in violation of the Torah.  But
     as the 1st Pesach was sacrificed outside the Tabernacle, so Y'shua
     perished outside the gate.  And the blood of THAT INNOCENT ONE,
     HaShem regarded as the substitution - this instead of that - His
     blood instead of yours, (the required penalty for violation of the
     Torah), "I say to you this day you shall surely die..." Beresheet.
     You don't fully understand it? - Does one have to fully understand
     the Mitzvot before one follows them?  When Adam fell, all creation
     likewise suffered, and laws built into the fabric of the universe
     by the Creator took effect.  One was that sin required the death
     of the sinner. - Another was that a substitution was allowed by
     HaShem instead of the sinner.  If G-d chose to accept the death
     of Y'shua Messiah ben-Yosef in your stead, can you, - should you,
     reject this?!  For if the following Rabbi was right...
R.ELIJAH DE VIDAS: The meaning of He was wounded for our transgressions
bruised for our iniquities is, that since  Messiah bears our inquities,
which  produce  the  effect  of His being bruised,it follows that whoso
will  not admit  that the  Messiah thus suffers for our iniquities must
endure and suffer for them himself. [on Is. 53]
     ...Then you are missing out on one of the most important, indeed
     the entire focal point, of ancient Biblical Judaism.  And if the
     above Rabbi, is correct, there should be only one last question
     for you to answer about the Suffering-Messiah...
                  Is  Yeshua  the  Nazarene  The  Messiah?
                  HA-IM  Y'SHUA  HA-NATZRATI  HA-MASHIACH?

--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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