HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:07:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.144039.23072@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.211652.27744@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Simon E. Booth,
>sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu writes:
>>Yes folks, Bush did the right thing.
>
>I'm sorry Simon, but I must disagree.
>
>This country is founded on law....maintained on a foundation of law
>and freedom. What Bush did was to circumvent the legal system. If
>they were all innocent as they claim, than the truth would have
>been evident in the facts or in a lack of hard evidence. However, it
>has become increasingly clear that this hard evidence does exist.
>
>What kind of message does this pardon send to our children. Does it
>say "It's only a crime if you get caught"? Does it say "If your rich
>and/or powerful enough you can get away with anything"? We should
>be aware of the grave implications of actions like these to the
>defining principles of our society.

I've wondered why the Congresspersons involved in the check-kiting and
the House Bank scandal haven't had to answer for their wrongdoing.
I mean, if we're concerned about the law, then wouldn't it be great if
even Congress isn't above the law?

I always get a good laugh whenever someone is talking about the Iran-Contra
scandal.  The phrase 'lied to Congress' gets repeated quite a bit.

Congress worried about honestly--yeah right!

Simon

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:16:52 GMT


Yes folks, Bush did the right thing.

Simon
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Date: 2 Jan 93 21:26:41 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
: 
: If you all think what Bush et al did was treason, then certainly Clinton's
: actions during the late 60's must be equal or worse (going to Moscow, dodging
: the draft).
: 
: Wonder what he did with the 30 pieces of silver the KGB paid him?
: 
: 
: Simon

Please present any evidence you may have that Clinton has ever, at
any time, had any improper contact with the KGB, or that he has 
ever, at any time, served as a Soviet agent, or failing that, that
"going to Moscow" was a crime at the time Clinton went.  The 
evidence doesn't have to be conclusive, or even substantiated;
I'll accept rumors, inuendo, anything, so long as it wasn't 
invented by Bob Dornan in the last year.
Don't look too long, though, cuz you won't find any.

Bill
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:48:56 GMT

patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger) writes:

>In article <1992Dec29.043900.18170@pegasus.com> tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:
>>
>>The message is "real life isn't tennis" you simply cannot bring the
>>entire country grinding to a halt in the name of "playing by the rules".
>>At some point reality has to be factored into the equation.  You can't
>>spend $35 million dollars every time something funny goes on in D.C. ?

The amount of money that went into nabbing Noriega is over a billion
dollars.  It did not stop the drug running, nor the corruption in Panama.
The amount of money spent to kidnap the Mexican suspected of murdering
DEA men and to pay off witnesses was almost 3 million dollars.  The case
was thrown out of court for lack of evidence.
The amount of money spent in investigating bad House banking rules is
probably at least a few million, and there was very little implication
of any law broken (though the investigator says there may be a few).
Note, however, that the House turned over its bank records to the
investigator.  If they had followed the Bush/Reagan method, they
would have released checks 1-74 this month, checks 83-102 next,
checks 316-512 would have been lost, and so on.  This investigation
then might have cost quite a bit more.

In regards to "reality".  You can't use the CIA to secretly get your
way every time Congress tells you no.  You play hard, you push the
rules and your agenda, but you don't undermine the game itself.
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:19:26 GMT

tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:

>Name a President who hasn't done anything "wrong" in some large group
>of people's minds.

William Henry Harrison comes to mind (except for not being smart enough
to wear a hat in the rain).
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bush pardons....
X-Xxdate: Thu, 31 Dec 92 08:02:34 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:06:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.233733.18167@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Simon E. Booth,
sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu writes:
>Why is the emphasis placed on 'lying to Congress'?

The emphasis is on embezzlement, perjury, and defying an act of Congress
....crimes.

>
>It seems a bit ironic that Congress, with their past transgressions
(check
>kiting, bank scandal,

Maybe unethical, but not illegal.

 Ted Kennedy's escapades

Personal, not pertaining to his job as Senator.

) would be concerned that other
>people were being dishonest to them.
>
>My point: isn't it funny that politicians are the ones making such a fuss
>about being lied to??

This is a gross over-simplification of the situation.

Norman
Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 07:07:41 GMT

aa680@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Vern Morrison) writes:

>     Bush must have really been afraid to let Cap Weinberger come to
>trial--apparently some of the evidence that would have been brought out
>painted the soon-to-be-ex-president in a most unfavorable light.  So he
>gave ol' buddy Cap and six others pardons for their role in the biggest
>government scandal of all time (unless you count the S & L scams, which was
>also brought to you by the Republican Party).

Uhhhh... thanks Vern, now let me sum up the flurry of follow up messages
before they appear here.

"Right On"

"You're a jerk"

And a few "what about.... democrats ?"

Somebody had to be the first one to post a teeth-barred, rabid message
with little substance, congratulations.

tom
From: nbh@netcom.com (N.B. Hedd)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Bush really IS a wimp
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:28:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

As expected, he was too timorous to brave open court, so he did the typical
Republican thing and pardoned those who might otherwise serve to convict him.
What a wimp: afraid of his fellow citizens. What did he have to fear, after
all? Either Weinberger lied to Congress or he did not. Either Weinberger's
notes show that Bush lied to Congress or they do not. If Weinberger and
Bush are really innocent, then they have nothing to fear from a jury of
12 good men and women--the truth will out. Or is that what the little
sh*t was afraid of?

Rumor has it Bush is worried about establishing his place in history (for
example, the Somalia mission). I think he needn't bother--it's pretty
much totally established by now...and it is REAL ugly. Maybe he and
Nixon can golf together while they try to rehabilitate their reputations.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Feinstein '94
Clinton/Gore '96
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
X-Xxdate: Thu, 31 Dec 92 07:52:10 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:55:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.225714.17677@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Simon E. Booth,
sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu writes:
>If you all think what Bush et al did was treason, then certainly
Clinton's
>actions during the late 60's must be equal or worse (going to Moscow,

Sightseeing....a capital offense.

> dodging
>the draft).

Following ones moral convictions = treason? I don't think so.
>
>Wonder what he did with the 30 pieces of silver the KGB paid him?

I hope you're being facetious here.

Norman


Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
From: mdl@cypress.com (Matt Landrum)
Subject: Summary of 80s GNP thread?
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Southeast Design Center
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:20:36 GMT

Did anyone save the 80s GNP thread?
I was trying to remember if the Social Security tax is
included as revenue.  I'd be interested in a summary of
this thread.

thanks
--


Matt Landrum, CAD Engineer      | e-mail: mdl@cypress.com
Cypress Southeast Design Center | office: (601) 324-4609, FAX - 4614
1 Research Blvd, Suite 200      | "You can get what you want if you
Starkville, MS  39759           | know how to find it." -- Tower of Power


Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
X-Xxdate: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:03:41 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:07:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.064433.3597@pegasus.com> Tom Leylan,
tleylan@pegasus.com writes:
>Oh.. New York City... Mayor Koch wasn't it ?  Mr. Honest, Mr. I live in
>a rent controlled apartment while poor folk live on the street.  Mr. Why
>complete a city project on time and under budget when you can funnel
>money and favors to your friends (while poor people live on the street).

Here's a lesson for you... producing examples where unethical or illegal
acts were perpetrated by the other party is not a logical arguement
for pardoning the illegal actions of the people you support.

Norman

Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Bush really IS a wimp
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:33:13 GMT


Ahh.. but he did serve in World War II, whereas Clinton dodged the draft during
Vietnam.

Now who is a wimp??

Simon

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 20:14:31 GMT

howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) writes:

>Gee Simon, thanks for your insightful argument supporting bush.  I
>guess I was wrong in assuming that the same president which has said
>"embezzlement is ok" (ollie north), "treason is ok", (north/cap
>weinberger/secord/et. al) [[selling US arms to a hostile nation]], and
>"nepotism is ok" (neil 'slick accounting' bush) would also cover his
>own ass by pardoning the people who could finger him and make him look
>even worse (yes it's possible) than he already does.

Howard... It is important you learn at early age that this type of
silly message is counter-productive.  You're looking for an argument
not a discussion.

Name a President who hasn't done anything "wrong" in some large group
of people's minds.

tom
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 06:36:43 GMT

Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:

>Here's a lesson for you... producing examples where unethical or illegal
>acts were perpetrated by the other party is not a logical arguement
>for pardoning the illegal actions of the people you support.

Here is a lesson for you... endlessly parading around with a look of concern
on your face about one incident while hundreds of other more serious
incidents continue isn't concern at all.

tom

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
X-Xxdate: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:18:07 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:21:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.201431.27900@pegasus.com> Tom Leylan,
tleylan@pegasus.com writes:
>Name a President who hasn't done anything "wrong" in some large group
>of people's minds.

Clue: There is a huge difference between a person who is percieved to
have done a bad job and one who has committed a crime by violation of a
specific, clear-cut law. One is inept or stupid (or unpopular), the other
is a criminal.

Norman

Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 06:35:50 GMT

patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger) rants:
> 
>	Oh, no!  Let's not bring the country grinding to a halt,
>	let's distract it instead by sending troops to Somalia
>	(and ignoring our own starving and hungry and homeless
>	people), let's start up with Saddam Hussein again and
>	put a carrier in the Persian gulf and let's divert
>	more than $35 million from the pension funds - that ought
>	to distract people for enough time to let Bush escape
>	from office unscathed!

Patt: I felt I should delete some of the noise since the paragraph
above is more than representative.

There were no hungry people before Bush took office and Kennedy didn't
screw up Bay of Pigs and of course you're right everybody should go to
jail and the 8th person in succession should be the President of the
United States, etc., etc., etc.

I know for a fact you mean well but you seem willing to sacrifice everybody
and everything that gets in the way.  Rather a rich person dies than a
poor person goes hungry...

Let me explain "the rules" of life, there are no rules.

tom
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Summary: unfounded Republican attacks
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:59:19 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec30.064433.3597@pegasus.com> tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:
>patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger) writes:
>> 
>>	If they were all innocent why did they need to
>>	be pardoned in the first place?
>
>You folks all subscribe to the same newsletter or what ?

	We'll bet you wrote some of the Bush campaign
	speeches!

>>Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
>>P.O.Box 273 - Island Station
>>New York, NY 10044 USA
>
>Oh.. New York City... Mayor Koch wasn't it ?  Mr. Honest, Mr. I live in
>a rent controlled apartment while poor folk live on the street.  Mr. Why
>complete a city project on time and under budget when you can funnel
>money and favors to your friends (while poor people live on the street).

	Sheesh - you "attack" me for the city I reside in?
	Sounds like Bush all over again - glad that campaign
	is over.

	While you're at it, why not boil me in oil for living
	in B.C. (Canada) for the last 14 months (just relocated);
	nah, don't bother, we took enough prejudicial nonsense
	from the Canadians just because we were "American."

	BTW, where was Bush when the big Nor'easter hit our shores?
	He didn't need any votes from New York, New Jersey or 
	Connecticut and the campaign was over so unlike his short
	appearance in Florida we never saw him during our disaster!



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
P.O.Box 273 - Island Station
New York, NY 10044 USA
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:15307 talk.politics.misc:65936
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Bush pardons....
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:51:10 GMT
Organization: Superseding Information, Inc.

In <1992Dec31.114442.424@hsh.com>, paul@hsh.com sez:
>
>  Chew on this 
>one, Norm:  if they were guilty of the major charges -- selling arms to Iran, 
>or sending money to the Contras -- WHY WEREN'T THEY CHARGED with these 
>crimes?

Chew on this one, Paul: you conveniently forget that North was, in
fact, originally charged with two counts relating to the diversion of
funds from the arms sales to the Contras.

Paul also conveniently ignores the fact that Walsh was forced to drop
these two counts -- the major charges in the indictment -- by AG
Thornburgh.  The process was quite simple: 

	1) North requested scads of classified documents (many of
which he was undoubtedly entitled to) for use in his defense.

	2) Thornburgh threatened Walsh that he would not release the
documents, and would instead file an affidavit with the court under
section 6(e) of the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA, found
at the appendix to 18 U.S.C.).  That section permits the AG to deny
defense access for national security reasons.  Of course, CIPA also
requires the judge to dismiss the relevant charges or take other
remedial action under these circumstances.

	3) Having been given this ultimatum, Walsh voluntarily dropped
the two main counts.


But don't let the facts stand in your way, Paul.  


-- 
			   797 F. Supp. 186

	   Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com    ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush pardons Iran-Contra scumbags
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:51:19 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.bush
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec29.030740.17440@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.144039.23072@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>In article <1992Dec27.211652.27744@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Simon E. Booth,
>>sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu writes:
>>>Yes folks, Bush did the right thing.
>>
>>I'm sorry Simon, but I must disagree.
>>
>>This country is founded on law....maintained on a foundation of law
>>and freedom. What Bush did was to circumvent the legal system. If
>>they were all innocent as they claim, than the truth would have
>>been evident in the facts or in a lack of hard evidence. However, it
>>has become increasingly clear that this hard evidence does exist.
>>
>>What kind of message does this pardon send to our children. Does it
>>say "It's only a crime if you get caught"? Does it say "If your rich
>>and/or powerful enough you can get away with anything"? We should
>>be aware of the grave implications of actions like these to the
>>defining principles of our society.
>
>I've wondered why the Congresspersons involved in the check-kiting and
>the House Bank scandal haven't had to answer for their wrongdoing.
>I mean, if we're concerned about the law, then wouldn't it be great if
>even Congress isn't above the law?

	That's an old Bush trick, Simon; change the subject
	and point the finger at the other guy and distract
	everybody.

	Why did they need to be pardoned in the first place?


>I always get a good laugh whenever someone is talking about the Iran-Contra
>scandal.  The phrase 'lied to Congress' gets repeated quite a bit.
 
	We'll see who has the last laugh with Walsh
	on watch!

>Congress worried about honestly--yeah right!
 
	Perjury is the worrisome detail here :^)

-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
P.O.Box 273 - Island Station
New York, NY 10044 USA
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,rec.martial-arts
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: dangers in falling
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 00:10:14 GMT

[rec.martial-arts]
In article <BzortE.u1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>                My shoulder joint promptly separated from my clavicle
>(I go into surgery next Teusday; $5000 and 6 months rehab; sigh),
>which puts the kibosh on my 3rd dan test for a while.  

Sorry to hear about the shoulder, but congratulations on putting on your
first kibosh.  Please note that once you have earned your kibosh you may
wear it with pride and receive free blended cocktails at any kibology
center near you.

					-- Kibo, 3rd Reflex Blue

Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.stupidity
From: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Hey!  Dave Letterman just said...
Date: 24 Dec 1992 05:52:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu



...remember, you're watching NBC, the *happy* network!!
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^

????

-- 
=======================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=======================
Xref: sparky alt.religion.kibology:5604 talk.religion.newage:5983 alt.alien.visitors:9505
From: bit@jjmhome.UUCP (Betty Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John_-_Winston TV Star Person
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:43:14 GMT
Organization: none

Greetings People:  I recently viewed a video of three of Mr. Winstons TV
shows (broadcast weekly on the San Jose cable system), which he was so 
kind to send to me.  These were excellent shows.  If you people on the
net could see them, I think you'd be impressed by his sincerity.  When I
get some time I'll write a review of the show where John interviews Kelvin
Rowe, who claims to have known and flown with space aliens.
Happy New Year to All!
Betty Lewis
-- 
Betty Lewis             INET        bit%jjmhome@stratus.com
Westboro MA             SMART UUCP  bit@jjmhome.uucp
USA                                 uunet!lectroid!jjmhome!bit
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.tasteless
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Advertisement Of The Week
Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology
Reply-To: kibo@world.std.com
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:16:29 GMT

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Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.angst,talk.bizarre,alt.peeves,alt.fan.furry