HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpbaker@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jon P Baker)
Subject: Re: sigh, oh sigh
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:22:05 GMT

We have a similar store here in Bloomington, Indiana called "Future
Shock." Leather, Doc Martins, etc etc. No music though. However it is
a single store or a local chain (there may be one in Lafayette
Indiana) and it's not in a mall.

I wouldn't worry about it too much... looking strange has been "in"
for years among certain groups. Although seeing people walking around
that don't feel "gothic" but dress that way... who are we to comment?

Jon

-- 
  Jon Paul Baker, Chaos Foundation  jpbaker@silver.ucs.indiana.edu 
       Computer Science Major, Indiana University Bloomington  
                         ----====><====----
From: josh2+@pitt.edu (Joseph H Alarcon)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Banshees Side Projects (The Glove, The Creatures)
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:22:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


 a test
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: zharman@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Zachary)
Subject: LEGENDARY PINK DOTS CD's **FOR SALE**
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:08:50 GMT


***FOR SALE***

The entire Legendary Pink Dot collection on CD!!!

+ The Traumstadt and Chem Playschool Casettes

+ Photocopied articles and correspondence with Ka-Spel and the band.

Total CD's are about 24
Cassettes 7

I will only sell LPD collection as an entire set.

If you are interested, please write to the following address for more info.

zachary-harman@uiowa.edu

Thank you.

And...  "Sing While You May!"
-- 
(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
(*)    Some of the basic principles of the Baha'i Faith are:   (*)
(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
(*)  1.  The oneness of mankind                                (*)
From: klf@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gnome of Darkness)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: sisters of mercy ques
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:50:09 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: UB


	I'm amazed that no one's mentioned that Emma was one of the
Bsides to the Dominion 12" - an official release it was. 
				kristin
From: MXR133@psuvm.psu.edu (yeah you know me!)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: catalogs please?
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:41:54 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

RE: Goth catalogs

Actually, if anyone has any addresses or whatever, can you post them here inste
ad of private mail? I'm surealot of us could use them. Thanks...
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: shinyash@fraser.sfu.ca (Kazuya Shinyashiki)
Subject: Enid Blyton's
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:27:38 GMT

Anyone know of Enid Blyton's childrens' novels?  I am especially refering
to the Adventure Series.  They have been banned from at least one local
library on the grounds of being "racist" and "very sexist".  Any comments?

-- 
Kaz Shinyashiki                       "If I know I'm going crazy, I must not be
shinyash@sfu.ca                        insane." - Dave Mustaine
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8784 alt.sex:35895 soc.culture.japan:10616
From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.sex,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Genitals in Japan(was Madonna...)
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:40:59 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <1992Nov9.074620.17824@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>In article <Bx496F.CHE@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>obscene.  The Court ruled that material is legally obscene if: (1) the
>>average person, applying contemporary community standards, would
>>conclude that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient
>>interests; (2) it depicts sexually explicit conduct, specifically
>>defined by law, in a patently offensive manner; and (3) it lacks
>>serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.  The
>>_Miller_ test is still the law today.
>
>I've wondered why porn publishers don't use element (3) of the Miller
>test to get around obscenity laws.  Say that some community decides that
>your magazine, "Young and Shaved," is obscene.  Why not come out with a
>new magazine: "Shakespear Illustrated: Volume 1: Hamlet".  Illustrations
>consist of the pictures from "Young and Shaved" with captions such as
>"The Queen of Denmark Plays With Her Dildo."  The text of Shakespear is
>public domain, so they are free to use it, and who could argue that
>there is no serious literary value in such a work?
>
>--Tim Smith
----------------------
The reason why Miller has not been enforced is that no one has ever
been able to prove what community standards are or what community they
were talking about. Also it would help if they could find "average"
people, there aren't any left!
- Steve

-- 
* Richard STEVEn Walz   rstevew@deeptht.armory.com   (408) 429-1200  *
* 515 Maple Street #1   * Without safe and free abortion women are   *
* Santa Cruz, CA 95060    organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.*   *
* Real Men would never accept organ-slavery and will protect Women.  *
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Zappa is a sellout!
Date: 3 Nov 92 10:10:18 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <1992Nov2.173103.9601@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
>In <BwxALK.K4G@news.chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>>  But you don't. Should I write that down to malice or stupidity?

>How should we attribute the fact that you made incediary
>comments based on something you clearly knew little about, rather than
>getting the facts first?

  "Such is life on usenet" ?

>   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8777 misc.writing:3509
From: joemays@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Joseph F. Mays)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,misc.writing
Subject: Re: A gender neutral pronoun, was Fundamentalist Nightmare
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:53:50 GMT
Organization: Dept. of CS Ball State University Muncie IN

In article <1992Nov11.182849.10775@thinkage.on.ca> jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner) writes:
>I've been a technical writer for 12 years, working for several
>companies over that time, and I've never found it necessary to
>use gender-exclusive language.  Some tips:

[several good tips for technical writers deleted]

>Really, folks, with a little ingenuity, you can avoid gender-exclusive
>language AND NO ONE WILL EVER NOTICE.  You can easily choose your words
>so that the question never comes up...and that's the whole point of
>technical writing.

Well, yes, but when did this become a discussion about technical writing?
I'm a tech writer myself, and I think it's safe to say that most tech
writers probably already know most of the tips you have included here.
For me, the need for gender neutral pronouns is most pronounced here on
the net.  This is also why IMHO they tend to be seen here in common
usage more, and I think it is part of why this discussion is taking
place here.

The fact is, that thanks to obscure user names and the frequent use
of pseudonyms in this environment, I frequently find myself referring
to other posters in the third person without having the slightest
idea of the gender of the person I am referring to.  I don't want to
cause unintentional offense or limit the effectiveness of my posts
by referring to a she as "he".  I think the growing prevalence of
electronic communication is creating a need for gender neutral
pronouns, and I don't think it's coincidence that this surprisingly
heated discussion has developed in this environment.

Joe


Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: nigel@dallas.dazixco.ingr.com (Nigel Aves)
Subject: Re: Enid Blyton's
Organization: Dazix - An Intergraph Company
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:33:33 GMT

Enid Blytons children novels have caused much debate in the UK 
over her use of the Golly Wog . Whats a Golly Wog I hear you asking.
When I was growing up in the UK (early 50's) most kids had a stuffed 
doll that was a "black" doll but it was fashioned on the black
minsteral entertainer (Al Johnson) rather than a real black person.
These were (please note were) popular. 
So Enid Blyton created a village were the good guys are all white
and if there was any trouble in town it was always the "Golly Wog"
that caused it.
To-day no book like that would ever be written (I  hope) but it is
a little bit of British History and if you can find one of these
books have a read, but not to much as the British Gov has deemed
they will cause small minds to become anti-black.


p.s.  WOG was a common term in the 18th 19th century and means
       Western Oriental Gentleman.






==============================================================================
| Nigel S Aves         |  There is no darkside of the moon! |  I'll see you  |
| Tel : 303 581 2391   |               as a matter of fact, |       on       |
| dazixco!dallas!nigel |                      its all dark. |  the dark side |
| Boulder Location     |                                    |   of the moon  |
==============================================================================

Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8804 soc.libraries.talk:341 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3394 alt.sex:36120 rec.arts.books:20076
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,soc.libraries.talk,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.sex,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: [UPI] Library attacked for buying Madonna's Sex book
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:59:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <BxMKts.656@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>	HOUSTON (UPI) -- The president of Citizens Against Pornography says
>she plans to file a complaint with the City Hall to protest the Houston
>Public Library ordering of four copies of Madonna's controversial book
>Sex which contains pictures of sex poses.

>	The libaray ordered four copies of the book at $49.95 each with money
>provided by an anonymous donor. Two of the copeis will be used for
>general circulation in the Fine Arts section and two will be used in the
>Reference section


Reference??

Is this the same library that shelved Adrienne Rich's _An Atlas of 
the Difficult World_ in Geography? 


--Barbara 
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8673 alt.conspiracy:11997 talk.politics.misc:58882 alt.activism:18487
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: [alt.conspiracy, et al.] Censoring John Dinardo Violates Constitutional Law
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:06:51 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 7495ca052fbb0124232e695bde69ae64

rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro) writes:
>
>>>To censor John Dinardo is a complete violation of the
>>>Freedom of Speech amendment in the Bill of Rights of the
>>>Constitution.
>
>>How on earth do you figure this?  As I understand it, AT&T removed his
>>net access.  AT&T is NOT a governmental entity.  The Bill of Rights
>>is thus irrelevant here.
>
>Hardly. AT&T exists within the context of the United States.
>
>In any case, singling out one individual for his political stance does
>not bode well for the rest of us.
>=====
>-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
>         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
>                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.

Richard?
	Do you speak *for* Oracle Corporation?

	I didn't think so.

	However, what you say *does* reflect on the organization.  Try
posting some of the Oracle source code and see how long you survive.  Or
post the projections for next quarter. :-)

	I suspect that Oracle has made it quite clear to you that there
are limits to what you can and can't do on their machines.  AT&T has
done the same to JD.  (Now, if we could only get some other companies to
think a bit more about their public images as affected by posters on the
net. :-)   Like it or not, business do not have to allow their employees
to post *anything* they want from work.

	If JD were sat upon by AT&T for posting his material from some
other site, then I'd agree that they (ATT) had overstepped their bounds
and were open to liability.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,soc.libraries.talk,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.sex,rec.arts.books
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: [UPI] Library attacked for buying Madonna's Sex book
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:05:20 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

Three libraries in Iowa, that I know of, have ordered the book.

There was a vocal complaint in Des Moines, and I don't know how things will
end there.

In Cedar Rapids, when someone from the press contacted the local library,
the director responded (and I believe I'm quoting correctly) "It would take
a court order to make us take any book off our shelves."

In Iowa City, the gave comments comparable to those quoted by others, that
Madonna is a cultural phenomenon, etc.

Personally, I like the attitude of the Cedar Rapids Public Library, terse
and to the point.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8672 talk.politics.misc:58880 alt.activism:18486
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: TechnoDweebs (was: Censoring John Dinardo . . .
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:58:19 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: c6e3d9462cfe1dc88e15d1379c03dcf4

bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
>jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin) writes:
>
>>	I agree.  As it has been brought up many times before, posting
>>on usenet news is not protected by the first amendment to the US
>>Constitution.  Each post resides on private computers and the owners
>>of those computers have complete control over what is and isn't on
>>their machine.  It would be like you getting sued because you removed
>>a sign someone stuck on the side of your house.
>
>Dream on! Each post resides on the "net." It is *you* who choose to
>bring this information into your computer when you access the net. By
>accessing the net, you are implicitly accepting the fact that (as this
>is a free society) all types of view are likely to be represented. It
>is like when you buy a "Playboy" magazine. If you are upset by the
>pictures, then don't access the magazine.

Brian: please provide a complete technical definition of the "net"  >:->

Usenet is a logical network of computers that exchange messages in a
specified format (netnews).  This posting exists (by the time you read
it) in thousands of copies, each on a seperate computer, stored in some
electronic storage device (disk, RAM, pixels on a screen, etc.)  Each of
these computers and devices is owned by some entity, either personal or
corporate.  Very few of them are owned by the government.

Specifically, there at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign,
this article exists in several distinct copies.  In the local memory
systems of the workstation you view this article on, on the disk on the
file server that the *local* network accesses, etc.  The of U.Ill.U-C happens
to own those computers.  There are some contractual restraints between
you and UIUC about the use of those computers.

This article originated here at wolves, a machine that I (personally)
own and operate.  I determine absolutely what I will allow to pass into
this machine, and to be sent out from this machine.   I just happens to
please me that I can read your blatherings, so I allow newnews messages
to come here, and other site owners like to see some of my blatherings,
so they allow netnews to come there.  (Some site owners don't like my
blatherings, but in the cooperative spirit of the anarchy that is
Usenet, they allow them to come onto their machines anyway. :-)

The posts do NOT reside on the "net" since the net is only a virtual
entity, not something real.

If this is the quality of students coming out of the CSO program at
UIUC, they (uiuc) had better do something to improve it, quick!
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,misc.writing
From: jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner)
Subject: Re: A gender neutral pronoun, was Fundamentalist Nightmare
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:28:49 GMT

I've been a technical writer for 12 years, working for several
companies over that time, and I've never found it necessary to
use gender-exclusive language.  Some tips:

(a)  Use the second person.  "If you want to log in, enter your
     password."  Not only is this gender-neutral, but it's plainer
     to most people than third person.  ("If the user wants to
     log in, he/she/it should enter his/her/its password.")

(b)  Use plurals rather than singulars.  "Programmers may set
     their own options."  Again, this is good plain English.  I've
     found that plurals are often easier to understand than
     singulars, precisely because the pronouns are easier.

(c)  Use simple designators.  "Suppose X wants to send a message
     to Y.  First X must find out Y's userid."  This technique
     is less common in spoken English, but invaluable in documentation.
     By using symbols like X and Y, you can often explain things
     more clearly and precisely than by using pronouns.

(d)  Use specific names with gender balance.  "Suppose Gertrude
     wants to send a message to Heathcliff.  First she must find
     out his userid."  This technique makes no assumption about
     the gender of the reader, and it implies that both genders
     may use the product.  Yes, the passage uses gender-specific
     pronouns, but not in a way that excludes either gender.  (By
     the way, I find that using names from fiction is a neat
     trick, provided that your employer isn't the stodgy type.
     Such names can perk up your readers and catch their attention,
     never a bad thing in the middle of dry technical material.
     It also sidesteps other biases.  For example, if you used
     names like John and Mary, you're projecting the feel of a
     WASP universe, whatever your intentions may be.  Using names
     like Lois and Clark, Robin and Marian, Hamlet and Ophelia,
     etc. has less of the feel of bias.)
     
Really, folks, with a little ingenuity, you can avoid gender-exclusive
language AND NO ONE WILL EVER NOTICE.  You can easily choose your words
so that the question never comes up...and that's the whole point of
technical writing.  Technical writing is intended to *convey
information* with a minimum of distraction.  Gender-exclusive
language is unnecessary and it will distract some subset of your
readers, SO DON'T USE IT!  This is not a matter of politics; it's
just serving your clients better.

		Jim Gardner, Thinkage Ltd.
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8708 misc.writing:3454
From: jxj24@po.CWRU.Edu (Jonathan Jacobs)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,misc.writing
Subject: Re: A gender neutral pronoun, was Fundamentalist Nightmare
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:58:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jxj24@po.CWRU.Edu (Jonathan Jacobs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, grant@psych.toronto.edu (Stuart Grant) says:

>In article <1992Nov4.000910.22942@iitmax.iit.edu> draughn@iitmax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn) writes:
>>If you are writing a book about automotive repair, and suddenly
>>everyone decides that the word "crankcase" has obscene sexual
>>connotations, you should probably change it to "gearbox," no matter
>>how stupid you think everyone is.  If you don't, you risk offending
>>people and distracting them from your true message: how to fix a car.
>
>Isn't this a double edged sword? It seems that many people are offended
>by people using spellings like womyn and wimmin, and prohibitions on
>
Here's a little somthing that almost always manages to piss _everyone_ off:
Instead of worrying about gender neutrality, why not just randomly pick a
gender for the space of the article/whatever you are writing and be done 
with it?  

   An awful lot of people seem to find that really offensive for some 
reason...  Go figure.  Anyway, until such time as the kratos of taste
decide that there will be a gender-neutral pronoun for the American (a
distant relative of English) language you should just get your readers used 
to not being able to prejudge anything simply by the gender pronouns you
use.  For example, The first edition of Oh! Pascal chose to use the "female"
pronouns "she" and "her" when they referred to their mythical/hypothetical
programmer throughout their book.  I certainly liked this much better than
the oh-so-wimpy "they/their" that some use for dealing with the singular
impersonal pronoun.  (Tho' many, many programmers are gender neutral.  But
that's a different topic.)

   Or you should just invent your own neutral pronoun and be proud of your
creativity.  You could be the next James Joyce (and a hell of a writer was 
she.)

[[[Post your favorite invented words here.  Pronouns especially, but feel
   free to create new and different categories, too.]]]
 
jon
 
>

Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: s0454850@let.rug.nl (J.P. Prenger)
Subject: Re: Zappa is a sellout!
Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:49:21 GMT

In article <Bx4xL7.E2J@news.chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
>Subject: Re: Zappa is a sellout!
>Date: 3 Nov 92 10:10:18 GMT
>In article <1992Nov2.173103.9601@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
>>In <BwxALK.K4G@news.chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>>>  But you don't. Should I write that down to malice or stupidity?


I'm new on this newsgroup & I'm interested in Zappa. So, the question's 
obvious: what's meant with 'Zappa is a sellout!'?

Jan Peter Prenger
University of Groningen
The Netherlands
E-mail: s0454850@let.rug.nl

Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
From: bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman)
Subject: Re: TechnoDweebs (was: Censoring John Dinardo . . .
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:00:20 GMT

wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:


>If this is the quality of students coming out of the CSO program at
>UIUC, they (uiuc) had better do something to improve it, quick!
>-- 

You are assuming that because I am using a computer that I therefore
am in the CSO program. I'm not. 


Brian Redman
(bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
"Ah yes, Armageddon. I remember it well."


Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:05:43 GMT

s0454850@let.rug.nl (J.P. Prenger) writes:

[....]
>An example: as far as I know, the only book in Holland which is forbidden 
>by the law is Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' (probably translated in English 
>as 'My camp'  or something like that).
[...]

Just as a data point: _Mein Kampf_ is available in the U.S. For
example, if I wanted a copy, I could get it from my univerity's
library. (I could also get a copy of the _Protocols of the Elder's of
Zion_.)

I believe it is also available in Canada, but only if prefaced with a
disclaimer that the publisher thinks that it is bad.

- Carl
-- 
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign