HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: It fills us. We arrange it. It decays.
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:08:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.=8j288a
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge

In article <1992Dec14.170757.17176@grebyn.com>, fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

|> Take the common example, from psychotherapy, of a person remembering
|> they were abused.  I, too, "believe" in reality, so of course, I
|> acknowledge that either A) that event did transpire as a concrete,
|> physical event, or B) that event exists, as a fact, only in the mind
|> of the person.  There's a continuum also--between various levels of
|> accuracy of memory--but let's not get *too* nuanced here!  :-)  But
|> while acknowledging that that event may or may not have physically
|> happened, I think the much more important "event" is the person's
|> memory of the abuse, and how that memory has changed them.  I don't
|> want us to get hung up on the word "real."  Events in the mind
|> are every bit as *real* as events in physical space.
 
 I hope I'm not the only one who finds this point of view to be scary. 
 
 What you seem to be saying is that it doesn't matter if you _are_ a 
victim of something or not - as long as you _think_ you're a victim,
then by definition you must be a victim. 
 
 With attitudes like this being taught to our future psychotherapists,
I can easily see the whole society going insane. 
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion: rec.arts.books.reviewed
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:58:07 GMT

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

>Dennis Brennan writes:
>>Is it worthwhile to ask for two groups, say, one for fiction and
>>the other for non-fiction?

>Please, no!!  Where would we would-be essayists who like to read
>fiction, and write postings and reviews pertaining to all of the above
>go, then?  Rec.books.eclectic.reviewed?  It's either all non-fiction,
>or it's all fiction, is what I say.  (More likely the latter...(-:)

As long as we're discussing a split of any sort, the split I'd like to 
see is rec.arts.books, and rec.arts.books.chat (though I'd vote "yes" to
rec.arts.books.reviewed).  I don't mean this as a snide remark; I'm quite 
serious.  I have nothing against the lengthy non-book discussions, but it 
would make my reading more enjoyable if they were sent elsewhere.  I don't 
just mean flame wars.  I found the cozy little "spinster" discussion rather 
irritating too, after it continued for more than a week.  

I detect a certain attitude that I interpret as "I read a great deal of 
books.  Therefore, *anything* I have to say is appropriate material for 
rec.arts.books."  I realize that many people like the marginal discussions.  
Sometimes I even like them.  For example, I enjoyed Mark Taranto's description 
of his father's question-asking habit (though that was at least introduced 
by way of a comment about a book).

The point is, that with such a split, we could emphasize the book discussions
while allowing marginal discussions.  If the marginality were debatable, 
discussions could be posted to both groups until the issue became clear-cut
(debates about marginality could be posted to... uh... I haven't worked out
all the details, yet).

I feel that such a split would be a clear improvement.  I'd like to know
how others feel.

--
Paul Callahan
callahan@cs.jhu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Whoops.
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:21:26 GMT



I wrote:

>         why     echo because we like you

> I rarely use any of these, but like to know that if I have a question,
> my computer can answer it.  I trust that nearly all of you recognize that
> it is a quotation from

That last line should be:

	I trust that nearly all of you recognize that "why" is a
	quotation from The Mickey Mouse Club.



Mark
From: at507@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jim M. Bowden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Generation Gap (Gen X vs. boomer), 13th-gen
Date: 13 Dec 1992 06:35:02 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Has anyone seen any information about a book by NEIL HOW - 13th-Generation:
abort, delete, retry, fail?  I think it will be published in march 1993.

It is referenced in the atlantic december 1992.  By the way there is a
great article in that issue about the new generation gap - boomers
vs. those born between 1961 and 1981.


jim
iijq500@indyvax.iupui.edu
From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: WANTED: A COPY OF MACUNAIMA IN ENGLISH
Date: 15 Dec 1992 18:45:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am looking for a copy of the English translation of Mario de
Andrade's book MACUNAIMA. Anyone who has a copy he or she is williing to
sell or knows of a bookstore that might have a copy, please send me an
E-mail message.  I have a copy of the original version on order, but, frankly,
I need a translation for a crib.  Thanks very much

J. Del Col
-- 
Jeff Del Col      *   DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented      
A-B College       *                      by Procrustes  
Philippi, WV      *                             
                  *
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Well Met at the White Horse
Date: 20 Dec 92 01:02:22 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <0_p2=6m@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
>
> When I heard of the plans for the Manhattan Rabfest, I realized that this
>would be an excellent opportunity to escape from Troy for a day or two, 
>meet some of the net.personalities I'd been reading for so long, spend
>some time with a small subset of the Long Island Gang, and perhaps even
>engage in some serendipitous holiday shopping at any interesting shops 
>I managed to discover while in the Rotten Apple.

James,

As you no doubt are aware, I was unable to attend Manhattan, but
am still interested in Collar City.  I am pleased to hear that a
good time was had by all attending.

So far, it looks as if it's just we two, through this medium, but
if we put it around that the Spirit of LaCross is welcome,
perhaps Holmes and Watson will not be big enough.


If you get the chance, please say hello to various people for me,
especially Marian and the Dragon Lady.

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe)
Subject: Re: decline in SAT scores very little genetic
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:47:03 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec16232655@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Reading "What's really behind the SAT-score decline?" by Charles Murray
.........................  Instead it is due to educational fads which
>have been especially harmful to the verbal abilities of students
>in the upper range of ability.  The dumbing down of the textbooks
>and the dumbing down of the literature requirements are perhaps
>the main problems.

I am married to a teacher, know many others, and have discussed this with
them at length.  On the strength of these conversations and a good deal of
informal observation, I suspect the root cause is, rather, the decline of
reading.  It is damn near impossible to impart fluency in reading and writing
by classroom drills; there is no substitute for reading tens of millions of
words to get an "ear" for the language.  

The problem is, that few people today, even the best and brightest, are
habitual readers. They watch television, go out for the evening, god knows 
what else.  School assignments just won't do the job.  Even the most
rigorous literature requirement cannot substitute for the habit of reading
an hour or three every day as a primary form of entertainment.  Few people
do this anymore, and it is beyond the power of schools to make them.

Possible way of disproving this: is the loss of reading as a customary form
of entertainment also occuring in other industrial countries?  On the other
hand, I believe I have read (admittedly in media accounts) that in various
cross-cultural tests of academic achievement American students come out rather
well in verbal skills - it is mathematics, science, reasoning skills, and
the like that they come up short.            

My information from the trenches suggests that the "dumbing down of textbooks
and literature requirements" is an effect, not a cause.  As my wife puts it,
"Jesus, we can't make them do the homework we assign now.  Their parents won't
back us up."  The intellectual level of textbooks is probably based on an
all too realistic estimate of how much work the students can be made to do,
and how much complexity a mind accustomed to the passivity of video can hope
to handle.

About those parents.  I refer you to an article in Scientific American early
this year, concerning the performance of Asian immigrant children in American
public schools.  They do very well indeed, even by international standards.
The difference?  The parents value education, and take a great deal of time
and effort to help their children read and study.  Every day.  Until and
unless American parents do likewise, the schools are largely helpless.

Comments?

			Chuck Smythe
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Out of the pigeonhole (was: Poe's other stuff)
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:05:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

cjh@tinton.ccur.com (Christopher J. Henrich) writes:
> My favorite unwritten books: 
> 
> _Guns and Gullibility_ by Calamity Jane Austen (last sentence:
> "Reader, I buried him.")

Uh, perhaps you should know about a story, "Jane's Fighting Ships" by
Esther Freisner, the perpetrator of the novelette, "Pride and
Precience".  The former is about Jane, instead of her brother, becoming
an admiral.  It will be coming out in an anthology edited by Mike 
Resnick which I believe is called BY ANY OTHER FAME.  Alternate
history, some of them quite whacked out.

It also contains a story about Helen Keller as a Broadway actress by
the young lady named in my organization line . . . 

	Larry "ObPlug" Hammer
--

                         \                     Time ...
LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \   Worships language and forgives
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \  Everyone by whom it lives   -- Auden
From: rhogan@aludra.usc.edu (Ron Hogan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: It fills us. We arrange it. It decays.
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:04:47 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>3. If I were your student, it seems to me that I would also get
>exasperated.  Especially as I believe in real events, and I think
>robots should be programmed to believe in them also.

>4. I might or might not get around to reading Churchland and
>Sejnowski.  However, I doubt it is something I have to read
>in order to do my work.  Should I be mistaken about that someone
>will tell me.  

3)  Yes, but *what* are they supposed to believe about real events?
Mightn't we allow them to interpret real events the same way that we
do?  Remember-- events are transitory; interpretations of events are
what we have to work with.  I believe in real events, too.  I just
don't believe that we can ever truly connect with them except for the
brief and precise instant at which they occur.

4)  Specialization--ugh.  Dabble in everything, I say.  Read things
even when they're not good for you.  Strive for philosopher-kingdom.
William Carlos Williams was an obstetrician as well as a poet.  What
did he read in order to do his work?

And what, if anything, did he think of Oscar Wilde and Joseph Conrad?

Ron Hogan

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: RE: excellent reading!
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:29:47 GMT

 
hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu (Heather) writes:
 
> Why Tom, you're so cute when you're mad!
 
Interesting.  I pictured Tom snickering to himself as he responded,
rather than being mad.  Perhaps this is because that is what I do when
I respond to people who say nasty things about me (unless I agree, in
which case I apologize).
 
> Sorry to get you in such an agitated state, but really, if you're not
> prepared to have people react to your statements, kindly keep them to
> yourself.
 
I found Tom's original one-liner amusing, and not the least bit snotty.
I certainly hope that he does *not* start keeping his comments to
himself.
 
I must admit, however, that I was even more amused at seeing someone
admonish another for making snotty comments, while doing it herself.
Heather would probably claim that it is OK to be snotty in response to
snottiness.  But I would neither agree with this logic, nor agree that
Tom was snotty first.
 
ObBook -- School for Scandal.
 

Mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cjh@tinton.ccur.com (Christopher J. Henrich)
Subject: Re: Out of the pigeonhole (was: Poe's other stuff)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:18:26 GMT

In article <1g3k3oINNa4h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum) writes:
>
>In a previous article, joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) says:
>>
>>Does anyone else know of other stuff Poe has written that falls out of his
>>usual "pigeonhole"?  
>
>Gary (thinking about the counterfactuals:  Henry James's
>lost science-fiction novel, Toni Morrison's unproduced
>musical-comedy, Harry Crews's treatise on properly enjoying
>fine wines . . . .)

My favorite unwritten books: 
The Bawdy Limericks of Khalil Gibran
The Collected Regency Novels of John Norman
_Why I Am Now a Christian_ by Bertrand Russell (1-letter change!)

_Guns and Gullibility_ by Calamity Jane Austen (last sentence:
"Reader, I buried him.")

Regards,
Chris Henrich
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Subject: Re: Foul and to the point (Was: Git)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:03:16 GMT

Fiona Webster recounts:

    [Anecdote deleted: Woman gets role
    in film after spewing out 30 minute
    tirade of profanity into Roman 
    Polanski's answering machine]

And she concludes:

    An interesting way of landing a
    job through a display of superior
    language skills, I thought.

Then it appears that the pedophilic
Polack's taste in language is matched
by his habitual mode of dress.  I had
the misfortune of running into the
smelly dwarf during a visit to Bangkok,
before what I consider his flop at the
Paris Opera.  Adding to his uncouth 
poolside manners and general untidyness
at Hotel Intercontinental, Polanski was
cloathed in dark, filthy rags worthy of
a Cynic in his dogskin.  His unkempt 
appearance didn't deter some of my
ex-girlfriend's colleagues at Finnair
from throwing themselves at the midget,
to our considerable embarrassment.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: excellent reading!
Organization: Clark University
Date: 12 DEC 92 17:01:19 GMT

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

>Heather Henderson writes: 
>>Hey, I bear no malice toward any of you folks, even after being told to
>>"fuck off and die".  I just think you're an amusingly self-absorbed little
>>clique. 

>Ahh, now we're getting somewhere...would you care to elaborate on those 
>feelings, Ms. Henderson? 
> 
><pause> 
> 
>Please go on. 
> 
><in my best stereotyped-psychoanalyst tone of voice> 

Fiona, you don't want to psychoanalyze me; I'm far too superficial.  What you
see is what you get.  Boring, dull, banal.  Everyone who knows me agrees.  So
you should exercise your skills on someone more worthy.  Zeleny, for example,
the depths of whose character are as yet unplumbed?  I'm sure there are
others...

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ray@Celestial.COM (Ray Jones)
Subject: Re: scientists who write literature
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:36:09 GMT

In <li4d4tINNa22@news.bbn.com> ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) writes:


>lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>>hamlet@ravel.udel.edu (Chris Adams) writes:
>>> Carl Sagan wrote a neat little ficition story
>>> about finally finding extra-terrestiral life.
>>> fairly realistic, if a little whimsical
>>CONTACT realistic?  <blink>

>I thought _Contact_ was a better read if you broke it into two parts.  The
>first 60% or so, was much better (IMNSHO) and, yes, was rather realisitic
>in that it had a nice "procedural-science" fiction feel to it: e.g. lots of
>stuff about wrangling with governmental funding agencies, cute little
>in-jokes about other phyicists and life at CalTech... that sort of thing.
>I liked this part quite a lot (although I can easily imagine others not
>caring for it very much).

>On the other hand, the last part --i.e. after they got on board the "ship"
>got just plain silly (leading up to an ending that was just plain wrong).

Agreed!  The first part was a fun read, however, when I got to the silly
part, I tossed the book.  
-- 
INTERNET:  ray@Celestial.COM   Ray A. Jones; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!ray   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!ray   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
The probability of one or more spelling errors in this missive approaches
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au (John Newman)
Subject: Re: question for Arabian Nights fans
Organization: Computing Centre, Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:43:29 GMT

>
>I have a 10 volume, limited edition set published about 1900.
>(1000 sets printed.)
>Does anyone know of this edition and roughly what they are worth?

Someone asked for more specific details as there were apparently 
more than a few sets produced about that time:

This set is titled:

 A plain and literal translation of
        The book of the 
   Thousand Nights and A Night
     (Alf Laylah wa Laylah) 
      by Richard F Burton

Published privatly by the Kamashastra Society in August 1885.
Volume 10 contains a long essay on the history of The Nights.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ John Newman              J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au /
/ Computing Centre,           "There is less to this     \
\ Curtin University,            than meets the eye."     /                         
/ Perth, Western Australia     - Tallulah Bankhead       \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave)
Subject: RE: Books with a sense of humor (was: A modest proposal)
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:01:15 GMT

joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) writes:
|> 
|> >As this is rec.arts.books how about a thread about books with a sense
|> >of humor.  For instance: I thought Dostoyevski's _Notes From the
|> >Underground_ was very very funny. 
|> 

Who was it who claimed the bible has one joke?  Of course it was by
Jesus; that guy gets all the good lines...

I can't even think of the joke.

Yours, wasting away,

-- 
Graham Redgrave    |    --  I don't speak for the government, 
gwr@life.lanl.gov  |        but I wish the government would speak for me ...  --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups,alt.config
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: 'alt' group proposed - alt.quotations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:26:28 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.
Followup-To: alt.config

mgm@world.std.com (michael g moncur) writes:

> Proposal for a new alt.group - alt.quotations (name is open for debate.)
> 
> PURPOSE:  for quotations, quips, .sig lines, witticisms, and discussions
>of all of the above. 

This is the wrong newsgroup to be posting about making changes to the
alt-net.  The proper group is alt.config, which is where I have directed
followups.

This type of newsgroup has been discussed before; I don't know why it
has never been created.  I think it's a nice idea.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |  "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif             |     the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:22898 misc.books.technical:1802 alt.internet.services:2080 comp.org.eff.talk:7852
From: tracy@cs.utexas.edu (Tracy LaQuey Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical,alt.internet.services,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: The Online BookStore Announcement: The Internet Companion
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:41:04 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu


>>How can it be a best selling book when it just came out?

In article <BzKz0r.yA@iat.holonet.net> phoffman@orac.holonet.net (Paul E. Hoffman) writes:

>Book publishers' hyperbole. If the initial reviews are good for the
>book, it will sell better than 90% of the other dreck you publish,
>and therefore will be a "bestseller" for you.

Well, the initial reviews have been GREAT, but "The Internet Companion"
has been on the Barnes and Noble "Top Ten" computer books list for 2 weeks
now. (It came out November 9th.)

>I speak as an author of over a dozen books. A-W's marketing dept. is
>one of the best, IMHO, and one of the hardest-working.

Boy, WHEW!!!, am I glad to hear that!  :-) :-) :-)

--Tracy LaQuey
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:22627 alt.comedy.british:2804 soc.culture.british:17695 alt.fan.monty-python:10081
From: dunleavy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Houston Dunleavy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.comedy.british,soc.culture.british,alt.fan.monty-python
Subject: Re: Get fucked. Was: Re: Git (was re: Et in Arcadia ego)
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:45:48 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <724522831.18396@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>rob@minster.york.ac.uk wrote:
>> 
>> The art of gratuitous fucking must have reached its peak with Derek and Clive
>
>What about Lenny Bruce?!
>
	Oh I dunno...I've known one or two ladies who - oops!! Wrong newsgroup!

:-)
Cheers, 
-- 
Houston Dunleavy, Aussie composer-in-exile. Peace, light and love to you.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Martin Luther King.
"It is better to write for yourself and not have a public, than to write for 
the public and not have a self"  Cyril Connelly. "Time to get a job" H.D.
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: All I want for xmas (Was: something by MMGardner, before that, KMorgan)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:00:32 -0500
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
NNTP-Posting-Host: emory.mathcs.emory.edu

I want a copy of *Natsu no Yami* by Kaiko Ken
in English (*Darkness in Summer*) so I can lend
it out to all and sundry and never get it back.

I want the 11th edition of Britannica, or, failing
that, any other edition.

I want *Where the Wild Thangs Are* (Sendak).

I want an American quotation book to round out
my Oxford.

Let's hear everybody else's.

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:22499 news.groups:24439