From: prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: More about India
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:43:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: coe.1992Oct7.174345.20475
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717

In article <1at5s9INN7l2@uwm.edu> mahadeva@point.cs.uwm.edu (Aruna Mahadevan) writes:

>My friends and I have experienced the same harrassment on buses in
>Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore and Madras, and yes, also in towns.  We've also
>had to duck into bookstores or shops to avoid being followed home --
>this in broad daylight, with PLENTY of people walking around!!  
>We couldn't travel from Bangalore to Hyderabad to take a test without
>being harrassed on the bus!  I suppose you would blame us for going
>'unescorted'???

No, I would blame you if you didn't take any actions against this.

>I wish you wouldn't generalize -- how do you know what it feels like for
>women to dread going to College on the bus?  I don't know where you went
>to College, but when we went to College, 90% of the men were like that,
>and that is a conservative estimate on my part.

I went to college in Madras. 90% is too high and maybe you were affected more.

>You don't think these things happen in India?  Alot of cases like these
>don't come out in India because the women are so embarrassed by the
>harrassment and keep it a secret or all the brainwashing that if she is
>beaten by the husband, she MUST be doing something wrong to DESERVE
>it!!!  I've actually heard people ridicule the poor woman who has been
>harrassed and has been bold enough to come forward, which explains why
>there are so few cases reported.

Yes such things happen and that's why I say people(both men and women) should
fight against such things rather than sit idle. 

>So when men harrass women on the buses or trains in India, they are
>actually respecting them and not treating them as sex objects??!!

I never said or implied that. I was simply pointing out that American men too
have such prejudices.

>I've actually had NO experience of sexual harrassment in the US, and I
>used public transport for the first three years that I was here.  Did
>you stop to think how emotionally distressing it is to be harrassed even
>walking on the road.  

I didn't say India was better. I just said USA is not heaven as people make out.

>You don't have to actually touch a woman to make
>her feel cheap and dirty.  I've had a lot of "educated" Indian men tell
>me that I should get married and raise babies, and leave the jobs to the
>men, whose right it is to have the job!  Is that not treating women as 
>baby-making machines?   

Yes, it is and I strongly resent that. Read my other replies for more 
clarifications.

>I don't think anyone is exaggerating here.  USA
>is much better in treating woemn as individuals, but it has a long way
>to go yet.  India has twice as far to go!  

Accepted.

>I remember reading a report about a policeman in Delhi adivsing a woman
>to stop fighting with her husband and go home when she went to complain
>about physical abuse.  The motivation behind this is respect for the
>woman, right??

Point taken.

>Well, all I can say is that these things happen in India too.  
>Office atmosphere can be the same in
>India too.  I have worked for almost a year here now without feeling
>"apprehensive".  In fact, my views are solicited and I feel respected.
>Discrimination is everywhere - nobody said USA is perfect.  

That was the gist of my argument.

>I have
>personally found that women hesitate to study Engineering or Math for
>fear of being labelled nerdy or geeky but how many of you actually had
>a serious discussion of Math or Physics with your woman classmate in
>College in India?  

In my college we had such discussions and discussions about all problems
facing the society too. But I accept that still some both men and women think
it is taboo to talk with each other.

>More women may study science in India but how many
>opportunities do they have to demonstrate that they know their stuff?

Situation is fastly improving. Look at the figures of women employed in
high-tech electronic and computer indiustries.

>I don't see anyone glorifying USA.. they just pointed out that it is
>easier to avoid being sexually harrassed while commuting and women do
>get a little more respect here than in India.  Maybe women are raising
>their voices now in Delhi because they have had enough 

Exactly. There should be more and more people like that. Only then the
situation will improve.

>-- when we were
>in College, people believed that the only reason a woman would be
>sexually harrassed would be if she provoked the guy -- nobody would
>believe otherwise; so we had no recourse but to forget the incident
>and go on or quit school!  I think that the change has to come through
>education, and that requires a receptive audience.  Also, the parents
>of boys and girls should educate them that girls can be anything they
>wish to be.

I share your views completely.

>Aruna

Sincerely yours,
M.P.Premkumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian