HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pcolmer@acorn.co.uk (Philip Colmer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: IRC channel open ...
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:30:24 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In case anyone is interested, a channel called #Acorn is currently
open for IRC chatting.

I don't have a 'bot sitting on it, so it will only stay open as long
as there is someone joined onto it.

--Fil.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
        Practise random kindness and senseless acts of beauty
From: sandy@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sandy Nicholson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Gnu C compiler availability query
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:03:55 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University (opinions expressed are my own)

A quick question (which is not on the FAQ list as far as I can make out):

Is there a public domain C compiler available for RISCOS (specifically,
for the A5000)? I have heard mention on the odd occasion of the FSF
compiler `gcc' being available, but I have been unable to locate it in
any of the FTP archives I know of (I am of course unable to compile the
`gcc' source---otherwise I wouldn't be looking for a C compiler :-> ).

On a completely unrelated topic (much discussed of late), I was told by
my dealer that RISCOS 3.1 ROMs were not yet available---this was a week
or two ago---and that the upgrade (from 3.0) would cost in the region of
75 pounds! Any comment?
-- 
Sandy Nicholson (sandy@festival.ed.ac.uk)
Department of Mathematics and Statistics, Edinburgh University, Scotland
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Where is 'Tiggr'?
Date: 23 Sep 92 20:15:19 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <19ihs9INNinf@swan.doc.ic.ac.uk> mybg@doc.ic.ac.uk (M Y Ben Gershon) writes:
:I am trying to contact 'Tiggr' (Peter Schoenmakers).  I previously used
:an email address: rcpietr@win.tue.nl, but this has bounced for the last
:week.  I have not been given any forwarding address, and need to
:contact him urgently.  If anyone knows any other email address, I
:would be extremely grateful if they could mail it to me.
:
:In case anyone wonders what this has to do with comp.sys.acorn, we
:have both been working on some interesting stuff for RISCiX, which
:may one day migrate to RISC OS - but it will require at least 8M,
:and probably 12M to run ...

try tiggr@stack.urc.tue.nl  -  he's in the process of setting up
a NeXT at home and will have his own site soon.

G
-- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: chughes@maths.tcd.ie (Conrad Hughes)
Subject: Reviewing Arc products (was Re: multisync monitors)
Keywords: multisync
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:43:43 GMT

yorkr@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Richard York) writes:

>I will shortly be getting my first Arc, and at the same time I want to
>invest in a good multisync monitor. I am interested in any opinions anyone
>has about the current crop available from NEC (3FG, 4FG etc), the taxan
>and eizo ones. The NEC ones look particularly good at the moment with their
>15" FST tubes.
Well I've just been 'phoned by Watford to say that Eizo will be
unable to supply any 9060S monitors (the one normally used by the
Arc) in the UK until the end of November.  This is irritating.  If
I do get hold of a multisync I'll post a review; it's unfortunate
that while there's undoubtedly a lot of knowledge about Arc add-ons
out here on the net, very few people seem to feel like sharing
their experience and reviewing equipment they use.  While you may
have to take everything you read here with a pinch of salt, I'd
take it more seriously than _any_ review in the Arc press, who seem
totally incapable of complaining about an Acorn-related product
these days - some of the stuff is undoubtedly good, but *that*
good?  The magazine problem has been argued to dust, but has anyone
anything to say about reviewing products here?

We could keep an FAQ of reviews or maybe Newcastle could archive
them or summat similar..

Conrad
-- 
,--------------------. Suicide City, Paranoid State. Geddout! trip to, heave'n'
|chughes@maths.tcd.ie| ho, up, down, to'n'fro you have no word please leave us
+-=>Conrad  Hughes<=-+ here close our eyes to the octopus ride isn't it good to
`-------<SICK>-------' be lost in the wood isn't it bad so quiet there . . .
From: smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Atomwide
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:05:56 GMT
Reply-To: ddban202f@uce.ac.uk (Michael Henry)
Organization: Nottingham University

(Posted on behalf of Michael Henry: ddban202f@uk.ac.uce)

Michael is rather concerned about Atomwide, since he placed an order for
a complete A5000 system with extras, and has not received it yet. Whenever
he tries to phone them, he gets the answering machine telling him that
"Staff training is in progress".

Normally I would say "Atomwide? No, they are one of the more successful and
bigger dealers", but in the current economic climate, I suppose anything
could happen.

Please could somebody put his mind at ease?

Thanks.
From: cmp0136@sys.uea.ac.uk (P. Arnold)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Monitors and TV's (Conversion)
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:25:53 GMT
Organization: UEA School of Information Systems, Norwich, UK.

Hello There,
  I have the stardard Acorn Multisync monitor (AKF18 (I think!)) with
my A5000.  What I would like to know is if it is possible to buy a 
device which takes in an input from a television ariel and produces a
suitable display for my monitor.  In other words can I get a TV picture
on my monitor?

  I have near-zero technological knowledge.


**************************************************************************
*     ___    ___                      | <-- That stands for Peter Arnold *
*    /  /   /  /              /     / | E-mail  P.Arnold@SYS.UEA.AC.UK   *
*   /__/   /__/ __  __  __   /  __ /  | Q. How do you know that a novice *
*  /      /  / /   / / /  / /  /  /   |    has used a wordprocessor?     *
* /      /  / /   / / /__/ /  /__/    | A. You find Tippex on the screen *
**************************************************************************
From: angelo@i41d2.ira.uka.de (Angelo Schneider Betr.Prechelt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: RiscOs 3.xx, where to get?
Date: 28 Sep 1992 14:27:47 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: i41d2.ira.uka.de

Hi all, I want an address where I can order the RiscOs 3.01 (or what?)
Roms for an A410 with Arm 3 (are there different versions for Arm3 and
Arm2 machines?)

Please answer by Mail and please do not come with Bebug, they are to
expencive!

ciao
     angelo

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    *                                           | Angelo Schneider
 *** ***  @@@@@/|  angelo@ira.uka.de            | Edelsheimstr. 1 
*******   @@@@/#|  Institut fuer Programm- und  | D-7500 Karlsruhe 1
*******   @@@/##|  Datenorganisation            | voice: ++49-721-607840
 *******  @@/---|  Universitaet Karlsruhe TH    | fax:   ++49-721-613960
  ** **   @/    |      no opinion, I go with the mass!
From: lithgow@usl.com (Malcolm Lithgow)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: 'volatile' in Norcroft/Acorn C
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:15:38 GMT

[In message "Re: 'volatile' in Norcroft/Acorn C", Andrew P.Mell writes:]
>Talking of ANSI compliance are the format specifiers for strftime()
>well defined? The format specifiers for Sun cc are totally different
>to those for Acorn/Norcroft C. Its a pain when porting.
>
>Who is right?

Possibly neither. The I18N (internationalization) functions (including
strftime()) have finally been standardized by the ISO MSE committee
(MSE is Multi-Byte Extensions -- my speciality recently,
unfortunately).

New additions are an era specification, alternative digit specifiers,
and a few other bits and pieces. Thrilling stuff. Since it was only
standardized this year, I would not be surprised if neither Acorn nor
Sun were up to date.

Does anyone know if RO3.1's vaunted I18N features handle multibyte
characters yet?

-Malcolm.  lithgow@usl.com  These are merely my opinions.
From: gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (David Alan Gilbert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Bugs, Bollocks and the truth about RO3.1
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:58:21 GMT

OK - there seems to be a lot of comments going about RO3.1,
well could I suggest that someone keeps a list of bugs,
and if they have been substantiated or not, and any
workarounds for them.  That way we wont have to fall
over them the hard way!

Dave

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- David Alan Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - G7FHJ@GB7NWP                -
------(Programmers don't sleep - they just park their heads)-------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: amell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew P.Mell)
Subject: Re: sparc file decoder source in C? (for unix)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:56:50 GMT

In article <Bv96D5.C36@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>I've been given a Sparc archive (stored files only, no compression)
>by someone who couldn't write tar files.  Anyone got any code to
>decode it on unix (I was about to say 'on a sparc' but thought that

Serves you right for abandoning the Archie :-) try cark or something with
a similar name. It is a Spark file decompresser for Unix, and is on the
newcastle info-server somewhere.

Andy
From: duplain@rtf.bt.co.uk (Andy Duplain)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Oh no ! More .....
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:07:43 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Oct1.191854.29057@cs.utwente.nl> kortink@cs.utwente.nl (John Kortink) writes:
>
>Again, take two developers : developer A has an ARM source code, developer
>B has a C source code and a C compiler. All work on 'old' ARM's. Now the
>new generation of ARM's arrives. Code is backward compatible. New features
>(new opcodes, addressing modes, 32-bit data).
>
>A : Has to adjust his source code and assembler (latter is trivial compared
>to a C compiler and can be done on the spot) to arrive at the same
>functionality.
>
>B : *Has* to wait for a new Norcroft C compiler taking advantage of (usually
>*all*) the new features, which takes a lot of time. Only then, after a
>considerable time, can he recompile his code. In the meantime he can't do
>anything.

	This argument is garbage -- you're saying that the 3rd party
	developer cannot "port" his code to the new Chip set because he
	has to wait for a new C compiler, _but_ the other one doesn't need
	a new assembler ???  How can he make the changes to the assembler
	"on the spot" when the assembler also needs to be modified... and
	this would take about as long to do as it would to _modify_ the
	backend of the C compiler.  What are you talking about ?


	Anyway the C v. Assembler argument is old and well aired ... cease
	and desist.
-- 
Andy Duplain, BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK.            duplain@rtf.bt.co.uk
#define	DISCLAIMER      My views and opinions are my own, and not my company's
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk (Lorcan Mongey)
Subject: Re: Help with !FormEd
Cc: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:42:00 +0000

In article <1992Sep20.041505.27944@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
jeff@ee.latrobe.edu.au (Jeff O'Keefe) writes:
 
>I get the following error shortly after I attempt to run the
>aforementioned program:
>   'Error from FormEd'
>   Error - Not found (internal code 6820, 67798)
>What does this mean and how do I fix it? I have an A3000. I have
 
Don't know what it means, but here's a suggestion for finding bugs in
BASIC apps (FormEd is BASIC, isn't it?). Make the "Next" slot the size
that FormEd needs, then press F12 and load the !RunImage file. Run it
from the BASIC prompt. The Desktop will reappear, FormEd will start up
and when the error happens you will be left at the BASIC prompt and can
examine ERL, ERR etc at your leisure and hopefully sort out the problem.
 
BTW, when you *do* eventually fix it, don't forget to Quit it and end
your "F12 session" before re-invoking it.
 
Lorcan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows)
Subject: Re: That alleged bug with RO 3.10
Organization: Nottingham University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 20:23:31 GMT

In article <9210020820.AA17366@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> nicho@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>In <2N4zkNj024n@khantazi.welly.gen.nz> Philip R. Banks writes:
>>Not is Risc OS 3.10 *not* slower than 3.0 it is infact
>>faster.
>yeah, but is it faster than RISCOS 2.0 (which is what _most_ of us
>are upgrading from)

Philip seems to have become rather confused. No-one would deny that RISC OS
3.10 is faster than 3.00 - after all, it has had many months' extra work
put in to optimise the code for speed. The discussion was comparing its
speed with RISC OS 2.00.

Simon B.
From: G.I.West@bradford.ac.uk (Graham West)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: !Palette file internals
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:32:10 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91670332@ccw119
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Tom Kirby-Green (gpcec@westminster.ac.uk) wrote:
: 
:         Where can I find out the internal structure of a !Palette file (
: as produced by !Paint and the Desktop etc ). It seems to be 120 bytes long.
: Does it contain words as returned from OS_ReadPalette? If a 16 colour sprite
: contains 2 * 16 words ( = 128 bytes ) in its "Palette Area", why does the
: !Palette file contain "only" 120? Or are they different internaly?

As far as I remember, a palette file is simply a string of vdu codes so you
can *EXEC the file and it'll set the colours automatically.

It runs in the order colours 0-15, the border, the 3 mouse colours. This means
you get 19,0,0,rr,gg,bb (I think that's how vdu 19 format goes) then
19,1,0,rr,gg,bb,19,2,0,rr,gg,bb.....
: 
:         Thanks for you help. Is it me, or is there no mention of !Palette 
: files in the PRM?

Don't remember seeing any mention in there. Excuse me if I haven't got the
vdu 19 sequence exactly right, but my PRM's are at home and that's 10 minutes
walk away...
: 
:                 Just trying to be, Tom.

		Graham
-- 
Graham West, University Of Bradford, UK   ....   g.i.west@bradford.ac.uk
"Red, crimson red, am I the invisible boy?" W.A.S.P. - The Crimson Idol
From: jmp@visionware.co.uk (John Pullan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: *Dir and riscos 3.1
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:19:43 GMT
Organization: VisionWare Ltd., Leeds, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Hi,

I have a feeling this is daft question/statement but here goes :

Since I've upgraded to ROS 3.1 on my A5000 I've noticed the following -
If I do *dir to a directory then I can *cat the dir and it shows the files
in the directory. However if i try and *type the files it can't find them
(more to the point amu can't find makefiles). I have to put the full path
to the file.

Have I switched something off during the upgrade or have I just 
misunderstood what *dir does ?


Cheers

P.S has anyone got a decent 3d titlebar sprite set for mode 39
--
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          VISIONWARE LTD, 57 Cardigan Lane, LEEDS LS4 2LE, England
    Tel +44 532 788858.  Fax +44 532 304676.  Email jmp@visionware.co.uk
-------------- "VisionWare:   The home of DOS/UNIX/X integration" -------------
From: r_voisey@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (R Voisey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Riscos 3 for sale (?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:50:24 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

In article <1992Sep28.220736.16000@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> amell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew P.Mell) writes:

>Aha, I have been meaning to knock up a switcher board, how did you do it?
>you have a drawfile of the PCB layout by any chance? Bear in mind I can
>only handle 2 layer/side PCB.. Or is there somewhere I can buy one from?

A friend of mine has done a commercial one, but isn't sure if the potential
market will make it worthwhile.  He may show it at the BAU show, or he may
not..

If anyone would be interested in such a product, email me!  NB I have no
commercial interest in this.

Cheers

Bob


-- 
  Robert J. Voisey  :  r_voisey@csd.brispoly.ac.uk
         -- Probug Software Developments --
162 Staplehill Rd, Fishponds, Bristol, Avon, England
From: duplain@rtf.bt.co.uk (Andy Duplain)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Source: [UNIX, C] Spark de-archiver for UNIX
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:38:21 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <717715711snx@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>Small bug in spark.c guys - you should open most of the files
>in modes "rb" or "wb", not "r" and "w".  Systems with newline
>translation (eg DOS & Mac) will get it wrong.

	Why is this a bug ?  It was written for ***UNIX*** which doesn't
	suffer from this inferior functionality!  Putting 'b' in the fopen()
	mode string is the least of your worries if you wish _that_ version
	of spark to compile on PC or Mac.

-- 
Andy Duplain, BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK.            duplain@rtf.bt.co.uk
#define	DISCLAIMER      My views and opinions are my own, and not my company's
From: julian@bridge.welly.gen.nz (Julian Wright)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: ReadNews 0.21 is on it's way
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:59:10 +1200
Reply-To: wright_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: USS Enterprise, NCC 1701a

bhotvedt@gollum.uio.no (Tor Houghton) writes:

> How about FTPing it somewhere?

It's already been available by now for some time from the Newcastle
info-server. I didn't spot the message from Albert on c.s.a.announce
about it though... I have been having feed troubles from a news server
up the line from me.

But ok, I'll do a 'broadcast' of ReadNews 0.24 (mainly bugfixes from
0.21)... to c.b.a, Newcastle, and all the ftp servers I can reach. But
not until tomorrow afternoon, when I've fitted RO 3.10 and upgraded
the "Templates3" files...

    Cheers, Julian.
From: gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (David Alan Gilbert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: AKJ03 - Risc OS PRM
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:39:23 GMT

Hi All,

On the back of the leaflet about the A4 it gives
AKJ03 as the number of Risc OS 3 PRM's.  Now does
anybody know:-

1) How much are they?
2) When are they available?

Talking about Risc OS 3 - does anybody know how
archive are doing regarding there supply - I know
they had a round 700 on the list and about 20 delivered
as of a week or two ago.

On a completely different subject, a friend is thinking
of getting an A4, but apparently PC keyboards
are a bit limiting - what limitations are imposed by
using a PC keyboard, and secondly does anybody know
if there are student deals etc.????

Dave


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- David Alan Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - G7FHJ@GB7NWP                -
------(Programmers don't sleep - they just park their heads)-------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: kortink@cs.utwente.nl (John Kortink)
Subject: Demo's, who writes 'em ?
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:07:00 GMT

Dave Sainty <terros@sideways.welly.gen.nz> writes :

>gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>
>> Nope, I've *never* seen the point in hacking demos.  It's a waste of
>> good talent.  Intellectual masturbation.  It takes very little to adapt
>> the skills to something more productive.
>>[...]
>
>It's a form of art.

I don't think so. If it was varied a little from the look-how-many-lines-
-and-balls-and-what-a-groovy-wavy-scrolly-text-with-unbraeable-soundtrack,
then it could start to have pretentions in that direction.

Once you've done your smart multiple-LDM/STM streamlined throw-around-data-
like-hell routines (i.e. 10 minutes), you've finished the intelligent part.
Then throw in lots of balls and lines ...

If only demo-writers were more creative. I mean, what would we do if all
the games were the same ? Why isn't someone writing something wildly
different or funny, without the look-people-it's-me scrolly's and some
decent music etc.. Remember Clares' demo's ? That was close.

I think it's acceptable to waste time tho. Some people never will produce
something with lasting value, so why not let them make demo's ... (I'm
not saying that goes for *all* people who wrote some demo, you know who
you are ...).

>
>Been to the gallery recently?

They never show any of those demo's ... They asked me what it was ...
Strange ...


John Kortink

Student of Informatics at the University of Twente, The Netherlands
(God, will I ever stop doing things 'on the side' and get it done?)
NETMAIL : kortink@cs.utwente.nl              DISCLAIMER : the usual
From: kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Division and remainder (was Re: Yes, more .....)
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:24:00 GMT
	<1992Oct6.112024.15905@odin.diku.dk>
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Originator: kjetilho@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no

In article <1992Oct6.112024.15905@odin.diku.dk> torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:
   The ANSI C standard actually doesn't specify how division and
   remainder (/ and %) work on negative integers. It allows (-3)/2 to be
   either -1 or -2 and (-3)%2 to be either -1 or 1. As far as I recall,
   it doesn't even specify that the behavious have to match, i.e. that
   the equation x==(x/n)*n+x%n should hold, but that is probably an
   oversight (and I can't imagine any implementation not doing this). I
   much prefer that divison always round down and that x%n always lie
   between 0 and n-1. Rounding towards zero and having signed remainders
   is old bagage from ones complement machines. With "proper" division
   and remainder you can always use x&15 for x%16, even if x is signed,
   and you can always use x>>4 for x/16 (if >> is arithmetic shift).

I quote this from the ANSI C standard:

3.3.5 Multiplicative operators
[...]

   The result of the / operator is the quotient from the division of
the first operand by the the second; the result of the % operator is
the remainder. In both operations, if the value of the second operand
is zero, the behavior is undefined.

When integers are divided and the division is inexact, if both
operands are positive, the result of the / operator is the largest
integer less than the algebraic quotient and the result of the %
operator is positive. If either operand is negative, whether the
result of the / operator is the largest integer less than the
algebraic quotient or the smallest integer greater than the algebraic
quotient is implementation-defined, as is the sign of the result of
the % operator. If the quotient a/b is representable, the expression
(a/b)*b + a%b shall equal a.

[quote ends]

So it seems you were right on all counts, except that your equation is
required by the standard to hold.

I agree with you that the Norcroft compiler does the "sensible" thing,
even if it costs some cycles :-)


Kjetil T.
From: gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (David Alan Gilbert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Who knows something about the !J -language ?
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:56:05 GMT

In <1992Oct1.141831.15980@news.uni-stuttgart.de> zrzm0111@helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (MUFTI) writes:


>The last pdlist contain a interesting program:

>!J              J language processor v3.4a [117k].......Iverson Software Inc

>Do anyone know anything about this ?

>Is it a compiler or interpreter ?
>Is it a prefix, postfix or infix algorithm language ?

>Any information wellcome

>so long
>MUFTI

I remember seeing something in Archive a few months ago on this.
I seem to remember it is a decendant of APL (I think) which used
to use loads of strange symbols which you needed a special keyboard
for - this uses ASCII by using even stranger combinations of 
punctuation marks.  The examples given in archive make 'C' look
like English (and I like C!)

Dave

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- David Alan Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - G7FHJ@GB7NWP                -
------(Programmers don't sleep - they just park their heads)-------------------