HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:20:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr9.152015.27478
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

> Read any good books lately?

Well, I've read Josef Skvorecky's "The Miracle Game", which was very 
entertaining, and almost as good as his "The Engineer of Human Souls".

Then I read Daniel Manus Pinkwater's "Young Adults", which I found
reasonably entertaining, but not as good as "The Snarkout Boys and the
Avocado of Death" or "Fat Men from Space".

Right now I'm plodding through Milorad Pavic's "Landscape Painted with Tea".
All the quirks that were kind of cute in "Dictionary of the Khazars" are
simply annoying here.  The only reason I'm reading it through to the end
is the hope of a good punch line.

Next on the list is Joseph Roth's "The Radetzsky March", or it might be
Abdelrahman Munif's "Cities of Salt", or maybe "Killing Mister Watson",
or perhaps ....


Wayne

-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Scientists' fictions and plays
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:47:31
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: doom@leland.Stanford.EDU's message of Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.234252.20763@leland.Stanford.EDU> doom@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:

> Incidentally, restricting the field to non-science fiction
> is understandable, if only to narrow down the search result
> a bit, but it may be a mistake: most science fiction isn't
> really about science or scientists, but rather about
> engineering (when it's not about pseudo-scientific magic or
> mysticism that is...).  However there are a few books like
> Gregory Benford's _Timescape_ that compare favorably to C.P.
> Snow's work, despite being on the wrong side of the genre
> fence.

It's easy to find books (both SF and non-SF) that have scientists in
them, but it's much harder to find books whose central concern is
scientific research, and which do a decent job of portraying it.  This
is understandable, I suppose: on a day-to-day basis, at least, most
research isn't all that dramatic.  (Where is the leak in the vacuum
aparatus?  Can you find this integral in Gradshteyn and Ryzhik?)

I think, actually, that the best descriptions of research in fiction
are almost invariably not central to the novels that they're found in:
I'm thinking, for example, of some mathematical discussions in
_Ossian's Ride_ (Fred Hoyle), and of the atmospheric studies in _V_
(Thomas Pynchon), and of the work in _The First Circle_ (Aleksandr
Solzhenitsyn). 

If you're willing to leave fiction, then there are a great many more
possibilites: _The Double Helix_ comes to mind, as do Feynman's books
of anecdotes.  There's even an anthropological study of high energy
physics, called _Beam Times and Lifetimes_!  (I haven't read it,
though, so I can't comment on it.)

--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: insignificance
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:33:31 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 03-31-92 MARK TARANTO wrote:

MTYes, this is it.  I thought the posters were for a play -- but it could
MThave been for the movie.  Just another example of selective memory.
MTDoes anyone know if "Insignificance" was also a play?

If it was a play, it was adapted from the film, which was an
original by the filmmaker Nicholas Roeg (Walkabout, Don't Look
Now, etc.)

                                         eliot 
Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com
    RIME: ->CHANNEL [R/O okay]
---
 EZ 1.37B #178  [in Brookline MA 10:25 pm, Monday 04/06/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu (Kate Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 8 Apr 1992 14:07:18 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Univ. of Texas School of Public Health

In article <1992Apr6.225452.29417@cs.yale.edu> loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore) writes:

>This newsgroup has seemed kind of slow lately.  Is everybody too busy
>reading books to post here any more?  :-)  What have you all been
>reading?  

Time's Arrow (Martin Amis)
Cold Sassy Tree (Olive Ann Burns)
Molly Ivins Can't Say That, Can She? (Molly Ivins)
Father Melancholy's Daughter (Gail Godwin)

kate
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:05:45 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr9.171801.4931@odin.corp.sgi.com>
 joyce@deco.csd.sgi.com (Joyce Richards) writes:
>i didn't see anyone list these Holocaust books:
>"The Banality of Evil" by Hannah Arendt,

Isn't that the subtitle of _Eichmann in Jerusalem_?

>"Maus"
>and 
>"MausII" by Art Spiegelman

>the first one made me think
>and the Maus books made me feel (bad).

>now something for the PC crowd.
>why is it so appropriate to bark at people who ask for books on both sides
>of the Holocaust.

Huh?  Which "both sides" do you mean?

If you mean those who deny that the HOlocaust occurred, then the reason
they get barked at is that they are anti-Semitic liars who only wish to
continue the evil they deny ever happened, while distorting and
falsifying the hstorical record.

No other reason.  Just a tic, I guess.

>i often wonder about PC usage.
>for example:
>why is it if you have a mass murderer, there is the murderer, and then
>the victims.  jeffry dahlmer's name was in the papers.  he murdered
>n number of victims.  but when we talk about the Holocaust, it's usually
>said:  6.25 million Jews died. and gays and gypsies and priests and artists,
>etc. or were lost.  or disappeared.
>but we don't say the ruling German Government killed ...

Two reasons: for one thing, everybody knows who did it; we've seen
enough books and movies and so on.  The name of Germany is forever
linked with these atrocities.

The other reason is that some of us feel uncomfortable with simple
formulations of the exact population of those who done it.  Can you
blame all Germans?  No.  Hitler alone?  No.  Anyone who was ever a Nazi?
No.  ONLY Nazis?  No.  Anyone who knew?  No.  

It's not easy.  We don't have a simple name.  But those who were killed
were killed because of WHAT, not WHO, they were; and these grisly facts
are much easier to circumscribe and recount.

>why is that?  am i wrong to guess that PC talk avoids ugliness?

Yes.  Or are you claiming that 13 million killings is less ugly than
talking about who did it??????????

Roger
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7991 alt.sex:14504
From: bigham@acpub.duke.edu (Scott Bigham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:25:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: n. Arrangement in an orderly or logical fashion.  See "miracle".

From the Holy Book of <1992Apr12.134912.10996@husc3.harvard.edu>
  as spake by zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) :

>In article <2342@news.duke.edu> 
>bigham@acpub.duke.edu (Scott Bigham) writes:

>>From the Holy Book of <1992Apr8.000306.10825@husc3.harvard.edu>
>>as spake by zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) :

MZ:
>>>  [...]  Of course, if I am right in my moral speculations, their
>>>moral judgment should also coincide with my own; [...]

SB:
>>That's a mighty big 'if' there, Mikhail,

MZ:
>I like substantial premisses.  Are you, perchance, unhappy with any of them?

Well, for starters, you haven't defined your terms.  In what sense could a
statement of morality be considered "right"?

SB:
>>					 particularly in its implied assumption
>>that it is possible for a moral speculation to be "right".

MZ:
>Indeed.  How do you propose to refute my assumption?

For starters, by finding out what you're actually asserting (see above).
Although as the presenter of the hypothesis, it would seem that the burden of
proof is yours.

						-sbigham
-- 
Scott Bigham                   | The opinions expressed above are
bigham@hercules.acpub.duke.edu | (c) 1992 Hacker Ltd. and cannot be
                               | copied or distributed without a
                               | Darn Good Reason(tm).
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 13:40:23 EDT
From: <DAB16@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE

In article <29E9A32E.10036@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
says:
>
>...have a most entertaining conversation with a barmaid who was very
>surprised to hear an american accent asking for the toilet.  She'd
>get "bathroom" (OK), "restroom" (hmm), "comfort station" (WHAT?!).
>She wanted to know why we had so much trouble with the word toilet.
>I told her it must be from those darned English puritans in our
>background.  We had a good chuckle.
>
>--Cindy
>
I remember coming up the stairs at a West End Theatre to find one helpful
member of our party trundling with an armload of coats towards the
"CLOAKROOM".  Needless to say, he returned red-faced to report that it
was the "loo."  Perhaps "Cloak Room" comes from the Latin word for sewer,
"cloacus" (???).  I thought Britain also used the euphemistic but
panEuropean "W.C." or "water closet," which is quite another thing than a
"watershed," despite the fact that logic would consider a shed simply an
outdoor closet.  Of course, Toilet or some variant is also pretty universally
used, in both theory and praxis.
--Dennis
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Gravity's Rainbow: MEGAZONE
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 17:16:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

As part of the continuing Gravity's Rainbow thread, I ask
"Where can I get some MEGAZONE?".
(I think it's megazone:  while I do have Finnegans Wake and The Perfect
Wagnerite in my office collection, GR is at home.)

It is a cough drop, described in the Disgusting English Candy scene
(which occurs quite early in the book, so even if you never got past
page 235, it should still be familiar), described as being so
mentholated, "it was like being hit in the head with a Swiss Alp."

I actually had one, back in '76 or so, from an actor-type in New Jersey,
who heard me hacking and coughing and said in his best Robert Young voice,
"Here, try one of these."  It was the most intense flavor I've ever
experienced, stronger than rubbing your eye after eating Jalapenos.
My cough stopped instantly. I saw the box, it said Megazone. 
The actor said he had never heard of GR, but that it
was a popular item in acting circles in NYC.

By the way, if you don't understand the ending of GR, compare it to the
ending of "The Recognitions", the unacknowledged source for much of
the style of GR (and Robertson Davies "What's Bred in the Bone",
although he 'fessed up).
Tim Szeliga	 Org: National Weather Service / Hydrologic Remote Sensing
UUCP:	apple!netcomsv!frost!tim		Internet: snow@netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
'Being skeptical' can mean two very different things.  It can mean 
habitually asking questions, or it can mean being so sure that there
are no answers that one simply issues denials instead.
				Can We Make Moral Judgements? by  Mary Midgely
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: King Arthur. Many Many Versions...
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:32:20 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Apr8.015232.4250@bohra.cpg.oz.au> jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean) writes:
>In article <JOHNS.92Apr3144937@bounty.sinet.slb.com> johns@bounty.sinet.slb.com (John R Schectman) writes:
>>
>> 4. Marion Zimmer Bradley - Avalon (?)
>>    Again Fantasy.  Great Book. From Morgan LeFay's point of view.
>
>"The Mists of Avalon", and she doesn't use the "Zimmer" for this title, 
>at least in all the copies I've seen.

I've got a first edition hardcover, and "Zimmer" is clearly blazoned
across the spine. One of those sorts of things that I'm more likely to
notice than other poeple.

(I first started reading Bradley because of a SF trivia contest many
years ago. What kept me from taking first place was not being able to
put all the Darkover books in order. I knew what I'd missed, the
scorer knew what I'd missed, and the person handing out the prizes
made some smart remark about how naturally someone with my last name
would have read all the Bradley books. So I resolved to repair the
gap.)


-- 
"If a book is worth reading at all it is worth reading more than once ...
Suspense drags you on; appreciation causes you to linger."
                                                     -- William Gerhardie
..!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:25:06 GMT

joyce@deco.csd.sgi.com (Joyce Richards) writes:

>why is that?  am i wrong to guess that PC talk avoids ugliness?

>joyce.


PC talk is pretty ugly in itself.  Moreover, it avoids the contemplative
mood because that mood is not "politically challenging" enough.

jw
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:26:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: PacBell.1992Apr7.222647.28353
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

I don't often read mysteries, but I recently enjoyed "King and Joker",
by Peter Dickinson, a British writer.

The intriguing assumption of the book (and its sequel, "Skeleton In
Waiting") is that King Edward VII's oldest son did not actually die
young, but recovered miraculously from his illness and went on to
succeed his father as King Victor I, instead of his younger brother
(who actually become George V).

The story takes place in the present (actually mid-70s).  Victor I's
grandson, Victor II is king, and his 13-year-old daughter, Princess
Louise (Lulu to The Family) is the central character, and sleuth.
A series of bizarre practical jokes is capped by a gruesome murder
in Buckingham Palace.  Louise sets out to find the murderer, and
uncovers some unexpected royal secrets along the way...

The plot is enjoyable, but really takes a secondary role to the
development of Lulu's character, the examination of her and the
royal family's need to split their personalities -- behave as
expected and required under the relentless scrutiny of the Great
British Public, and try to create as ordinary and sane a private
life as possible, and find a measure of escape and happiness among
the family, and its closest retainers.

Well-written, light reading -- I recommend it.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: Kerouac (was Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:17:16 GMT

doom@elaine5.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:

>The excesses of Kerouac's "spontaneous prose" hurt many of
>his books (_Dr. Sax_ is infinitely tedious, for example), but
>several of them work quite well. _The Dharma Bums_ seems to
>be his best.  _The Subterraneans_ is also pretty tight. 

I sort of liked _Dr. Sax_.  At least, I felt it improved on the second reading.
My initial reaction was disappointment, as it contained no beatniks, no travel,
and no philosophical or poetic conversations. The story, to the extent that
there is one, is viewed through the eyes of a child.  But on the second reading,
when I knew what to expect, I found it a refreshing change from standard Kerouac,
which tends to get repetitive and annoyingly self-congratulatory.  This seemed
less self-conscious.

In particular, I thought that Kerouac captured the sort of hazy confusion
between reality and dreams that occurs in childhood.

--
Paul Callahan       | "... the 'spineless prickly pear' ... this long-neglected 
callahan@cs.jhu.edu | gift of nature, which now promises to be of as great or 
                    | even greater value to the human race than the discovery 
BIFF WHERE ARE YOU? | of steam."                      -- Luther Burbank, 1911
From: trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Pat Conroy and stereotypes
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:14:23 GMT
Organization: Jes Grew Carriers -- Metaphysical Bunko Squad

Well, they say write what you know.  Judging from his guest editorials
in some of the papers around here, I'm convinced that the only thing
he does know is what he has written about.


 
Trevor Bauknight         trev@hubcap.clemson.edu    ...gatech!hubcap!trev
 
                                                     +-----------+
                                                     | _> ###    |
                  clownhead                          |     |     |
                                                     +-----------+
From: loos@amber.mgh.harvard.edu (William D.B. Loos)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: King Arthur. Many Many Versions...
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:47:00 GMT
Organization: Molecular Biology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


I don't think anyone has yet mentioned Charles Williams' poetic re-telling 
of the Arthurian legends, _Taliesan Through Logres_.  Admittedly the approach
is rather obscure: they are told with Taliesan, usually (I gather) a minor 
character, as the central figure; the geographical focus is the Byzantine
Empire, in which context England is called Logres; and there was a bizarre
system of symbolism which equated different parts of the body with different
countries.  Tolkien wrote an entire poem (printed in _The Inklings_) 
specifically about how obscure Williams' poetry was.

The edition I have (which is the only copy I've ever seen) contains three
parts: 1) Taliesan Through Logres; 2) The Region of Summer Stars; and 3) The
Figure of Arthur.  The first two are collections of poems which form the 
cycle of Arthurian poetry.  The third was a review of the development through
history of the various Arthur legends -- Williams was working on it when he 
died, so it was completed by C.S. Lewis, who included Williams' own poems as
part of the story.  Lewis greatly admired Williams' Arthurian stuff -- the
third Perelandra novel (That Hideous Strength) shows evidence of Williams'
influence.

Most tantalizing of all are hints of an Arthurian story that Tolkien himself
worked on.  So far, all we know about it is the few hints supplied by Humphrey
Carpenter in the _Biography_.  We'll probably get it eventually :-) , but not 
until Christopher Tolkien has finished with the History of Middle-earth :-( .  
So stand by around 1997  :-)  .


===============================================================================
                           |  "And that, I may tell you beforehand, Maskull,"
                           | said Krag, grinning, "is Crystalman's trump card."
William D.B. Loos          |  "How do you mean?"
                           |  "You'll see.  You'll renounce the world so 
loos@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu | eagerly that you'll want to stay in the world 
                           | merely to enjoy your sensations."
                           |             -- David Lindsay, A Voyage to Arcturus
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gretzky@wam.umd.edu (Keith Robert Gretzky)
Subject: Italo Svevo
Originator: gretzky@rac2.wam.umd.edu
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:16:53 GMT
From: kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ???Behaviorist Brainwashing????
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:41:10 GMT
Reply-To: kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull)
Organization: The Capital Area Central Texas Unix Society

In article <1992Apr12.224817.10111@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>>Does the presence of NAMBLA in gay parades suggest anything to you?
>
>It means about as much to me as the presence of gay groups in the New York
>St. Patrick's Day parade does. If I'd followed your rule of inference, I'd
>have been forced to conclude that all Irish are gay.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, our secret's out!

(actually, I'm only have Irish, which I guess would make me a
bisexual.)
>



--Kathy

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
kate@cactus.org   OR   cs.utexas.edu!peyote!kate   OR   kate@peyote.uucp

"Too fearful to assume himself the onus of a decision, said Mr. Hackett, 
he refers it to the frigid machinery of a time-space relation."
		Samuel Beckett, Watt
-- 


--Kathy
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Irrelevant _GR_ question
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:44:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Having done considerable homework on _Gravity's Rainbow_ (essentially for my
own edification, and for something to talk loudly about in literary
discussions) and been unable to answer this question, I'll pose it here:

Who or what the hell is the "Kenosha Kid"?

There's a couple references to Kenosha, Wis. in _GR_;  Slothrop was born there,
as was ensign Morturi (sp?), who appears briefly at the end of the novel, 
but I'm not sure of any relevance in either case.

Anyone care to act recondite?




-SubGenius


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:39:24 GMT


                                   Monday, the 13th of April, 1992

Vance Maverick chides me for the interpretations I said I gave to
some of Joyce:
     How do you know this is the content?  Isn't it rather the form which
     contains all that exquisitely controlled narrative prose?  Why
     privilege the "theme", and this one way of extracting it?
I'll assume, Vance, that you understand that I was talking about the
way *I* read Joyce (and not even that, but only about the way I
have read Joyce).

     Well, if there's nothing better he could have done with his words, why
     is there anything better he could have done with his themes?
Sometimes we use language to entertain or to evoke emotional or
intutitive response. Sometimes instead we use it to try to describe
something that actually *is the case* with the world in which we live.
Even sometimes when this something is ineffable. I consider
it a fair question to ask whether a certain sincerity about this
last endeavour does not or should not motivate the very highest
art. I also consider it a fair question to ask whether Joyce had
or conveys this sincerity in Ulysses. As I said, I have my reservations
about it.

          Mike Morris
     (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Business Novels
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:52:57 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

David Lodge's "Nice Work" sort of fits here -- it's about a
strange and wonderful collision between academia and business
in present-day "Rummidge", a British city that bears a strong
resemblence to Birmingham.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com