HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: Collector's Harleys $ and frauds
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 12:37:57 GMT

--
I comp[osed a nice reply to this and the server puked. One more try.

In article <1992Sep6.104305.1138@msus1.msus.edu>, stafford@msus1.msus.edu
writes:
|>Path: pa.dec.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford
|>From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
|>Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
|>Subject: Collector's Harleys $ and frauds
|>Message-ID: <1992Sep6.104305.1138@msus1.msus.edu>
|>Date: 6 Sep 92 10:43:05 -0600
|>Organization: Minnesota State University System
|>Lines: 22
|>
|>Two things:
|>1. ($)
|>	I've been reading Walnecks for a few years and as you know,
|>	asking-prices have taken a quantum leap for early Harleys.  
|>
|>	Does anyone have an idea of what these bikes actually sell
|>	for?  ("fair market value" is described as the price something
|>	brings when sold within a reasonable amount of time in an
|>	open and competitive market.
|>
|>2.	How discerning are the buyers of these bikes?  I've been to
|>	large MC auctions (St. Paul, MN, for example) and seen 
|>	some rather ingenuine reconstructions going for big bucks.
|>
|>	By Ingenuine I mean bikes with ater-market fenders, bars,
|>	levers, hubs, wheels and even frames (Kennedy's makes a beautiful
|>	repo straight-leg hard-tail frame.)
|>
|>	The trend to buy look-alikes or approximations is interesting
|>	in that it _seems_ to indicate an immature market and if this
|>	is true, then do you think prices for _genuine_ collectibles
|>	will go through the roof?
|>

The posers will pay top dollar for anything that looks rad. You could dress
up a Heritage Softail to look like a '65 Pan and they'd pay vintage Pan 
prices for it. All they care about is the image. They regard repop parts as
new and improved. 

The Europeans will pay big dollars even for bikes with repop on them
because of the lack of clean OEM parts in Europe. Repop is ok because it's
very difficult to get OEM, much more so than in the US.

The real collectors will not pay top dollar for repop unless the repop part
is one of those extremely hard parts to find, and the repop is very high
quality. It can mean thousands of dollars between a bike with some repop
parts and one with OEM. Stuff like Kelsey-Hayes rims, Guide lamps, and
Chandler hardware make the difference between Just Another Antique and
a 100 point resto. A good show judge will pick right up on these things.

The market is out of control right now. Everyone wants a Harley. The 
Rubbie explosion has driven prices for older bikes and parts way up. 
A lot of these cologne-and-washable-tattoo types are selling their
Heritage Softails for the real thing. They don't even know what a 
mousetrap is and they just gotta have an old Harley. Most of 'em have
mechanics.

I'd better stop now before I get carried away.

Genuine collectibles will continue to rise in value.

CdH

<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: B.M. Davidson
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:44:46 GMT
Organization: Minnesota State University System


 The next project bike is shaping up.  It's gonna be a
 BM Davidson.  That's a late BMW boxer frame with a Harley
 Shovelhead engine - maybe a Sportster engine.  And
 if luck persists, an RS-like fairing.  fabrication of
 the swingarm has already been worked out.  

 Why?  Why it will piss off two major groups of snobs
 in one pass!

 Seriously, the BMW boxer frame has some poetic resemblance
 to the fetherbed frame - great wide-open chassis.  Why not?
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: 4 valve HD
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:25:02 GMT

ed@Tekelec.gecko.uucp (Ed Campbell) writes:

>>Eric Murray :

>>Ob. Harley:  I've heard rumors of a 4-valve harley.  Does
>>anyone know anything?  I mean a factory bike, not aftermarket heas.

>    That was a 1917 to around '21 or '22 competition model.
>    (BTW) Velocette (English) had a shaft driven OHC in 1937.
>    And these kids on their rice rockets think they have
>    "modern" technology.

	In the March, 1992 issue of American Iron magazine they review the
Australian-made Fueling/Rivera 4-valve head kit.  On a Springer Softail, the
figures are 100 ft/lbs of torque and 95 horsepower.  Stage 2 kits give 120hp
and enough torque to eat holes in the pavement.  The heads look very close
to stock, but the twin carbs are a give-away.

	This is all on a stock motor, by the way.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: groh@omicron.cs.fsu.edu (Jim Groh)
Subject: Re: 1000ccm Panhead, adjust valves
Reply-To: groh@nu.cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:54:39 GMT

In article <petterb.1.716051376@dhhalden.no> petterb@dhhalden.no (PETTER BRUSERUD) writes:
>How do you adjust the valves on a '83 (or is it '82) 1000ccm Panhead?
>Would be happy if somebody could tell.

???????????? Must be a typo, 83 or 82 Panhead, in 82 and 83 the production
engine was a shovelhead. So the real question is: What do you have really??

>
>What's the "noise" limit (exhaust) for vehicles (read:bikes) in USA?
>In Norway it's 88dB. Don't ask how we managed to get our Sportster through, 
>but we did it (with a lot of shit in the exhaust pipes!).

The number that sticks in my mind is 96db, but I could be wrong.

>
>                  "Fresh Harley fan" 
--
Jim Groh     groh@sig.cs.fsu.edu  | DoD #0356  |   Hog# 0437643 |new  improved
1959 XLH 900  **  1982 FXR  **  1989 XLH 883  **  1990 XLH 1200 | smaller sig
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: 1000ccm Panhead, adjust valves
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 01:43:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.165949.6509@westford.ccur.com> cvr@dweezil..westford.ccur.com (Chris von Recklinghausen) writes:
>To adjust the valves, pull off the pushrod cover clips, bend a wire coathanger
>to hold up the pushrod cover (have the top of the hanger hang off of the rocker
>box, and have the bottom hold up the pushrod cover without interfering with the
>travel of the pushrod).

        Nicer idea:  place a wooden spring-type clothespin on the pushrod
itself to hold the pushrod cover up.  Then you don't have a stray end of a wire
coat hanger scratching your chromed/polished aluminum rocker boxes or the paint
on your tanks.  Turn the motor over until the intake valve on the cylinder of
interest closes (i.e., cylinder is on compression stroke).  Then both valves
will be closed, as they should be, for adjustment.

>Tighten up the locknut (make sure it's tight, I've had them loosen up and cause
>a horrible rattling noise, not to mention a loss of power)

	On my '82 XLS (no, I don't have it anymore), I actually picked up
40psi of compression in one cylinder just by adjusting the valves!  A very
telling boost in performance was realized, and I had to bump up the idle
speed as well.

>Put the pushrod cover clips back on.

	Often quite a bitch to do on a Sporty.  I almost always used the two
screwdrivers to lever against the cooling fins method.  For some reason,
getting the keepers in and out is much easier on a big twin.

>>What's the "noise" limit (exhaust) for vehicles (read:bikes) in USA?
>>In Norway it's 88dB. Don't ask how we managed to get our Sportster through, 
>>but we did it (with a lot of shit in the exhaust pipes!).

	In 1985, it was 85dBA.  I think it is now down to 80dBA.  This
standard is one very big reason that stock Harleys are such pigs,
performance-wise.  Emissions regs form the other big reason.  No more out-of-
the-box 13 second Sportsters or 11 second XRs.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114  KotHLF    1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide (She lives!)
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	            (I need another bike for this space!)

Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC agree with any of this anyway?
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: internal prejudice
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:49:44 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Sep11.121114.20783@PA.dec.com>, dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn) writes:

| It's not so much we have anything against Evos, it's that the Evo people
| think HD's made before 1984 are all junk. I've gotten lots of mail concerning
| this topic. I am an admitted shovelhead fanatic who believes that the Evolution
| is not the Solution. 

  I like Evos, I like pans (my first bike was a pan, 1960 or so). I know
they built some bikes in between, but I sort of ignore them ;-)

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: mtrost@convex.com (Matthew Trost)
Subject: Re: 1000ccm Panhead, adjust valves
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:04:37 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Sep10.012539.6335@research.nj.nec.com> behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:

>In article <petterb.1.716051376@dhhalden.no> petterb@dhhalden.no (PETTER BRUSERUD) writes:
>>How do you adjust the valves on a '83 (or is it '82) 1000ccm Panhead?
>>Would be happy if somebody could tell.

>	There is no such thing as an '82 or '83 Panhead.  '48 to '65 only.  I
>thought they were all 74s (1200cc) too.  Am I wrong (Oldchop?)?

Yes. They also made a 61 (1000cc) Not sure of the production years, but a
friend of my stepfather just got his running after sitting since 1963. It's a
1950, I believe he bought it new in 1951.

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: ed@Tekelec.gecko.uucp (Ed Campbell)
Subject: 4 valve HD
Originator: ed@rover
Organization: Tekelec Inc
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 19:38:43 GMT

>Eric Murray :

>Ob. Harley:  I've heard rumors of a 4-valve harley.  Does
>anyone know anything?  I mean a factory bike, not aftermarket heas.

    That was a 1917 to around '21 or '22 competition model.
    (BTW) Velocette (English) had a shaft driven OHC in 1937.
    And these kids on their rice rockets think they have
    "modern" technology.

>Also, the Rikuo was a 750cc flathead, with cases that look
>like a panhead's.  It was made up until the early 60s, and
>was mostly used as a police bike in japan.

   It was a clone of the WL solo. They shipped a few over here
   after Harley quit building them in '48, but they didn't hold
   up well, maybe because of the metal they used. The engine was
   45 cubic inches. American bikes should be refered to in terms
   of cubic inch displacement because "CC's" sounds so much like
   "sissies".
--


        Ed Campbell
'57 FL (560,000 mi, 3 rebuilds)
'76 XLCH (136,000 mi, 1st rebuild comming up)
My other car is a '54 Harley Servicar.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        "The reason they let them import them damn Limey
         bikes is so you stupid kids won't fuck up a good
         harley when you crash"
                        Anon. June 1957
=====================================================================
 
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: stock Evo cases too weak for big bore
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:42:10 GMT

How amusing.  Mr Shovel-snob was trumped my Mr Pan-snob.  Mr Knuckle-snob
we're waiting...

- Roid
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: petterb@dhhalden.no (PETTER BRUSERUD)
Subject: Re: 1000ccm Panhead (adjust valves) It's a SHOVELHEAD
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:23:23 GMT

Sorry! Of course it's a Shovelhead and not a Panhead.

Thank's for the interest of the subject!

Petter
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: alex@engr3.umbc.edu (alex)
Subject: Re: Testriding
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:50:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.194530.20073@rtsg.mot.com> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:


>I don't know where YOU live, Ed, but most places in the
>country won't allow someone unknown to walk in
>with a license and helmet and ride a bike out, without
>a significant outlay of cash.  Most places do not even keep
>the floor bikes wet (ready to run).

	HD of Baltimore will let you test ride something, assuming that
they actually have something to test ride (most of their bikes are sold
before they arrive). I was under the impression that this was pretty 
common among HD dealers. A drivers licence and a signed waiver will usually
do it.

	It isn't common among other dealers, though, especially the jap
bike dealers. I don't think its so mucha measure of quality as a sales
attitude. With entry level big twins starting at about $8K, your probably
pretty serious if your even talking about a test ride. Jap bikes, on the 
other hand, are often viewed as summer toys (at least the smaller ones)
and draw a different audiance, and different sales pitch. The Jap bikes
are also generally a lot faster and hence more dangerous in the hands of
an idiot. There are no absolutes, HD of Baltimore lost a brand new springer
last year (20 feet into the ride), and we can always look to Gary Busey.




-- 
                               Alex Crain::UMBC Academic Computing Services
The feminist agenda is a socialist, anti-family political movement that 
encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice 
witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. - Pat Robertson 1992
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: Appliances != HD's
Keywords: builder, user, appliances
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:35:55 GMT

--

I'd put you clearly in the builder camp.

I's love to build a hot Jap bike. Unfortunately there are a lot of
other projects I'd like to tackle first.

CdH

<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Why do Harleys make so much noise?
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:20:51 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System


 Why do Harleys make so much noise?
 They don't.

 "She was born of garnett earth sired by thunder, raised by
  by lightning and grew to great human beauty such that all
  was sudden stillness in her way so when she whispered so
  gently any ear could hear."  

  from an unpublished excerpt of the Universe of Glorantha
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: woofy@sgi.com (Wolfchild)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: U.S. Electra Glide Sport pricing ...?
Date: 12 Sep 92 17:48:38 GMT
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Organization: Fair to middling-neater than some, sloppier than others

In article <1992Sep11.185613.4878@bnr.ca> mdoug@bnr.ca (Doug MacLean) writes:
>
>     Does anyone know the U.S. price of a '93 Electra Glide Sport (Red)?
>
>- Doug from the Great White North.

Sorry Doug.  Apparently the Electra Glide Sport didn't go over too well in '92
so it's not being offered in '93.  Too bad-it would have been my next choice
after the Springer :-(.

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Fabans

   /\ /\                woofy@yorgi.csd.sgi.com (Wolfchild)
    o o                             
    \ /                   FXSTS - The scooter of the Gods.
     * 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlj8e@mljsg.pharm.Virginia.EDU (Michael Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Testriding
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:25:55 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Sep10.223656.11536@rtsg.mot.com> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>
>I think maybe you are, as (I assume) a customer, being treated differently
>than "someone unknown" who walks in.  I suggest you ask a motorcycling friend
>who is not a Harley rider (well, assuming...never mind :-) to walk in
>and ask for a ride.  He won't get one.
>

Not always true.  I rode into my local Harley dealer on a Honda and looked
for about a half an hour while asking lots of questions.  Then the
dealer ask me if I would like a test drive.  No money down, no 
waiver, didn't even ask to see my license.  I rode 4 different bikes
that day.  Six months later I ordered a low rider.  The dealer
said that he knew that I was going to purchase so he was not worried.


--
      Michael L. Johnson
      mlj8e@virginia.edu
From: osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Harley Sportbike?  Don't hold your breath
Date: 12 Sep 1992 12:29:30 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep12.023822.14164@tcsi.com> markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer) writes:
>Harley is a business first, and has been playing it conservative
>lately (probably still under the pall of the buyout debt).  Currently,
>Harley and sell more bikes than they can build.  Why should they spend
>millions to develop a new bike if they won't be able to produce enough
>to offset the developement costs?  It would be a bad move from a
>business standpoint.

Well.  The problem is that at any time Harley may find that their
current bikes don't sell as well as they used to.  It pays to have
designs waiting in the wings ready to take their places.  I don't
think this will happen anytime soon, but it could.


>Sport tourers, however, have a much longer design lifespan and a
>different kind of buyer (many of the current sucessful sport-tourers
>have their design roots in the mid 80's).  Here Harley could do a
>little expanding if they had the production capacity.

Well, I think having a Harley equivalent of a Honda CBR600F2
or CBR900RR or a Kawaski ZX-7 or a Suzuki GSXR probably isn't
such a hot idea, so I probably agree with you.  On the other hand,
if Harley offered something to compete with, say, a BMW K75S or
a K100RS I would be *seriously* tempted to buy one.

>Personally, I'm not really interested in a plastic rocket (I have two
>already).  I'd really like something like the current sportster with
>rearsets, clip-ons and a chassis.  I could get the power I want out of
>the motor, but what can you do with a frame that dates back 40-odd
>years to the K model?  I wouldn't put what passed for tires in those
>days on a wheelbarrow!

Yea.  If I had the money, I'd *really* like to have a Buell RSS1200.


-
-John H. Osborn
-osborn@cs.utexas.edu
-DOD# 2001  '92 BMW Paris-Dakar
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Germany/US - Customs?
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:27:50 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System

An earlier post from Germany described how difficult it is to get
American parts there but easy to get (for example) BMW parts.

We have a similar situation here, but I suspect BMW parts are easier
to find here than American are there. Well, I wonder if this net can offer
an aternative to the middleman.

What is involved in customs?  for example, if I wanted to ship a
bucket full of American Standard fasteners (nuts and bolts) to Germany, what
would I have to do?

(What's in it for me?  I've a '56 Harley and a BMW.  Best of both
worlds, imho.)
From: jlp@blink.att.com (Jon Peticolas(x7058))
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why do Harlies make so much noise?
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:38:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T


>In article <18bdo8INNk04@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu 
>(Joseph Hack) writes:
>>
>><anoying crap deleted>
>>I own a Ducati.  
>><more anoying crap deleted>

Too bad, waste of a good bike.  

wfrank@well.sf.ca.us (Wade Franklin) writes:

>I'm really disappointed with what's happening in this newsgroup. 

Don't be. I've already seen more intelligent Harley related discussion 
posted here in two weeks than I've seen in rec.moto in seven years.
Flames are inevitable, don't let the jerks get you down.

>I thought it was created so that those of us who prefer Harleys could 
>split away from rec.motorcycles to avoid the perpetual 
>my-bike-is-better-than-yours bullshit, and have some constructive 
>discussion of Harleys.

It was, but with an unmoderated newsgroup you have to take the good
with the bad. Those of us who argued for this group realized that 
there would still be flames. What we've done though, is drawn a line
between those who would only flame Harleys when the topic came up in
a newsgroup they regularly read, and the minority of morons who by 
posting flames to a neswgroup devoted to a topic they clearly despise, 
undenyably demonstrate their desperate need to get a life. 

>Unfortunately, we get these people coming over here who have no interest
>in Harleys except to run them down, and the people who ride them. What's
>their problem? 

Look, this guy isn't the first jerk to post here, and he certainly 
won't be the last. It's clear that if he had a life of his own he 
wouldn't feel the need to waste his time posting anti-Harley crap to 
rec.motorcycles.harley.  View it as a classic display of juvenile
insecurity. Some people have such a hard time feeling good about 
themselves that the only ego boost they have left is to denigrate 
others. Don't wast your time hating these creeps, they feed off
of that, it's the only emotional response they know how to inspire.
Pity them, ignore them, maybe if they see how people with real lives
can find happyness, they'll grow up.
   _____            
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( )_( )(  O  )( \ \ )
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