HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Subject: Advertising on the Net, a Hypothetical Question
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:02:54 GMT


A hypothetical question about advertising.

Imagine a poster, active on s.c.j., with a professional
interest in Hebrew grammar, who after months of activity
on that list posts a naive letter whose content is 
ostensibly about what is the right thing to serve an
observant Jew.  All fair and acceptable so far.

Prominent in this letter is a statement by the poster,
of questionable relevance - admittedly in my eyes; after 
all I am the one making up this hypothetical - to the 
effect that the poster is not Jewish.

Would this bit of information constitute, in the eyes
of the readers, a bit of gratuitous, even egregious -
of the worst sort - advertising?



__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
Jerusalem
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Keywords: Persian Gulf War
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:51:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu


	I, for one, have no problem with Bob's advertisement.  What Bob
has done is quite similar to the shareware or demonstration programs which
already proliferate on the Usenet.  He gave us the heart of the book, the
diary entries themselves, for free here on this forum.  Now he is saying,
in effect, that if we wish we can upgrade to the full version.  If he had
simply barged in and said, "Hi, I am a netter and I wrote this great book,
why don't you buy a copy," the matter would be altogether different.
	Congratulations, Bob, I wish your book great success.

						Dan
Newsgroups: il.board,soc.culture.jewish
From: amos@huji.ac.il (amos shapir)
Subject: Re: Hebrew calendar in C and PostScript
Followup-To: il.board
Keywords: hdate,hebrew,calendar
Reply-To: amos@cs.huji.ac.il
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:34:33 GMT

I have uploaded it to israel.nysernet.org; as of this morning, the files
hdate.shr.Z and hcal.ps were in israel/uploads.  (Do not get mixed up
with hdate.sh in israel/hebrew-calendar, which is another version -
better get the index in Index.israel.Z first anyway).

--
	Amos Shapir		Net: amos@cs.huji.ac.il
Paper: The Hebrew Univ. of Jerusalem, Dept. of Comp. Science.
       Givat-Ram, Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Tel: +972 2 585706               GEO: 35 11 46 E / 31 46 21 N
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jfox@vms.macc.wisc.edu
Subject: SIngles in LA
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Distribution:  na
Date: 13 AUG 92 14:47:29    

Some time ago (and maybe more recently -- I've not had time for news)
someone posted info about parties in or near LA given by a charitable
family for Jewish singles, serious about building a Jewish home, to meet.
Could someone please email me about this or about similar 
opportunities so I can pass the info on to my nephew? I think what
they are doing must be an important mitzva, but I can't name the
category :-).
Thanks.
INTERNET: jfox@macc.wisc.edu
BITNET:   jfox@wiscmacc

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:18:28 PDT

In article 17390@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>In article <-#!nfbp.yosi@netcom.com> yosi@netcom.com (Yosi Almog) writes:
>>
>>What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
>>in Israel?
>
>You are asking the wrong person. However I will be honest with you and tell
>you my opinion. If you ask the question "Does a Jew have the right to live
>in Israel?" I would answer "A Jew have the right to live anywhere in the 
>world and so does anyone else". As far as is it important, I would say I don't
>know simply because I am not a Jew.

Well, then, do I, as a Jew, have the right to live in Mecca? Do you think that
I have the right to go up onto the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, into the
Al-Aksa mosque, and worship in my Jewish way?

Be honest.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:02:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.153913.3562@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.131828.10261@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:

>>Well, then, do I, as a Jew, have the right to live in Mecca? Do you think that
>>I have the right to go up onto the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, into the
>>Al-Aksa mosque, and worship in my Jewish way?

>>Be honest.

>Well, I will be honest with you. If you tell me as a non-Jew that I am welcome
>to live anywhere in the World except that I am not allowed to enter a 
>synagogue or live in a certain area in Jerusalem that is sacred to Jews,
>I will gladly accept that. Not allowing non-muslims to live in Mecca 
>or go up onto the Temple Mount is a religious belief. You can do it if
>you convert to Islam and I think you don't have plans for that. 

Well, I can't fault him for honesty.  He simply avoided the question.

The area called the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem's Temple mount is commonly
considered to be a place where no Jew can walk for two reasons: because of
its holiness, and because there is a mosque sitting there!  To say that
you can't walk there is gratuitous and absolutely absurd.

Further, if you say all ya gotta do is convert to Islam to go to Mecca,
then all ya gotta do is convert to Judaism live in those areas of
Jerusalem or to go to a synagogue (I know of plenty of nonJews who have
gone to synagogues and I'm not even talking about those with
nonHalachic conversions :-).

In any event, given that none of us are going to convert just so we can
visit/live somewhere, why not answer the question.  After all, you can
visit those Jewish Jerusalem neighborhoods; we wouldn't be able to even
get to Mecca.

Actually, maybe you're right.  Maybe chosing a residential locale is
not enough of a reason to permit a Halachic conversion.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)
Subject: Re: Respect for others, A Torah Perspective
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:58:55 GMT

This follow-up should really be to Hayim's original article, but I can't
find it, so I'm following up to Michael's.

MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) tells a story with a lesson to it:

>>This story goes back about 75 years ago, to the early religious
>>settlements in Jerusalem. The leading Rabbi at the time was
>>Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld.
>>
>>A certain person, whom we might refer to him today as an ultra-fanatic
>>Jew (no labels please) happened to be discussing a well known
>>irreligious Jewish figure who was extremely anti-Torah and anti_Jewish.

>>This fanatic added the phrase "Yimach Shmo" - (lit. may his name be
>>erased, a well known curse) after the name of this figure.

>>To which Rabbi Sonnefeld responded sharply and critically: "Don't
>>say such a thing."
>>
>>Why not - after all this figure did all these evil and attrocious acts?
>>
>>So Rabbi Sonnefeld said: Look, if this guy would have died without
>>children, and he would have had a brother, would there be a Mitzvoh
>>of Yivum? (where the brother marries the childless widow of his dead
>>brother, in order to preserve the memory of the deceased)
>>The answer is, of course, most certainly yes - there would be a Mitzvoh
>>of Yivum. Therefore, concluded the Rabbi, here the Torah states
>>specifically "lo yimache shmo byisroel" (may is name NOT BE erased
>>from the Jewish people), and here you are going around stating the
>>exact opposite that his name SHOULD be erased?
>>
>>Hayim Hendeles
> Michael Shimshoni

The way I heard the story, and I've heard it several times, the rabbi involved
was not Rabbi Sonnenfeld but Rabbi Avraham Yishaya Karlitz, known as the
Chazon Ish, and the "well known irreligious Jewish figure" was Ben Gurion.
(This would mean that the incident, if it happened at all, probably took place
fewer than 75 years ago, as the Chazon Ish and Ben Gurion were not as prominent
75 years ago as they became later.)
--

Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman)
Subject: Re: Breaking a Glass in the Marriage Ceremony - Why?
Reply-To: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:01:02 GMT

I recentely saw the Italian film Meditrania.  In the film they showed 
Christian wedding (Catholic? Greek Orthodox?), in which they also broke a 
glass. 

Gadi
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Nonsense symmetry
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:10:39 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: sg@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (stephan.gross)

In article <1992Aug11.210714.1373@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, sg@cbnewsh (stephan.gross) writes:
>
>        strong          willingness to question               weak
>LEFT  <------------------------------------------------------------>  RIGHT
>        weak             fundamental knowledge               strong

>Most (and these are ALL generalizations; happily, exceptions exist on both
>sides) people on the liberal side are willing to investigate and change if
>need be; they usually lack the basic knowledge.  On the conservative side
>(notice how I don't use Orthodox and Reform here?) they are well-versed in
>the fundamentals but never willing to debate and question.

Your generalization on the RIGHT, regarding weakness in the willingness to
question department is nonsense.  It's just that their questions are at a
level way beyond the comprehension of someone weak in the fundamental know-
ledge department.

>  Finally, I think this can be applied to the recent OCR wars.  Orthodox
>people have trouble understanding that there are serious, knowledgeable
>Reform Jews that have investigated the sources and come up with different
>conclusions.

I get the impression that the bigger objection is that they have come up
with a caricature of Judaism.  That is, their investigations are cheats,
having already decided on new fundamental principles that short circuit
the halakhic process.

>	       They might not agree, but they must respect the fact that
>the decisions are not frivolous ones.

Not frivolous, just redefinitions after the fact.  Meanwhile, the number
of these serious, knowledgeable Reform Jews that you mention, the object
of my unfriendly redescription, remains a tiny minority of "Reform Jews"
in general, and the anti-Reform criticisms are certainly on the mark
regarding the masses.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: l1z@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Protest! Protest! Protest!
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:18:45 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

    The international students at PennState will be holding a protest against
the university's health insurance policy. The protest is dated August 17th,
Monday, in front of the HUB(hertzel Union Building) and the Old Main.
    PennState requires all international students came after fall,1990 to
buy insurance for themself and their dependents. The insurance should be the
MEGA plan provided by this school or other insurance that meet the waiver
standards. The waiver standards were set very strict so that international
students have no choice but to buy MEGA because any insurance that meet all
the waiver standards will be much more expensive than MEGA. The MEGA cost
about $500 a year for the student but $1778 for the student spouse and $800
for a child. If the  international student has assistantship, the school pays
%80 of the insurance for the student, but not for spouses and children.
MEGA doesn't provide good coverage for illnesses though it's so expensive.
    American students are not required to buy insurance for their dependents,
but they can choose to buy MEGA for their dependents if they want. So when
their wifes are going to have a baby. they may spend a few hundred dollars
to buy MEGA for their wifes for only one semester, and enjoy the maternity
coverage. The cost, certainly, will be imposed on international students who
are forced to buy MEGA even there's a lot of unwanted coverages like the
maternity coverages for their husbands and children!
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:42:58 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

>>Why is everyone making such a big deal over the tallis? In fact, the 
>>custom is in most Ashkenazic communities, that one does NOT wear a
>>tallis before they are married......
>
>I didn't think we had made a big deal over it.  It seems to me that
>you are protesting too strongly.  It happens that I am not married and
>do not where a tallis, which I indicated is the dominant minhag in
>Orthodox synagogues.  But the other approach is perfectly valid via
>Orthodox sources.  Obviously, I have no problem with your minhag,
>since I do it myself, but you shouldn't object to the other minhag.

Now, what is the minhag in this case?  My son (age 16) is at an 
Orthodox service where most of the community observes the "no
tallit until marriage" minhag.  Our minhag, as per the Conservative
movement, is that by Bar Mitzvah, all men wear a tallit.  So-

    1.	Does he follow the minhag of his own (the Conservative
	movement) community?

    2.	Does he follow the minhag of my dad's community (Poland ->
	no tallit until marriage)?

    3.	Does he follow the minhag of my father-in-law's community
	(and I don't know exactly what that is, since his parents
	are from two difference countries- Russia and Austria)?

(And for the purpose of this discussion, I will not take as a
personal insult to over 20% of the Jewish community, any discussion
of point (1) that is based on whether a Conservative minhag is
even a factor in this case.)
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:11:22 GMT

In article <56990@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, hrubin@pop (Herman Rubin) writes:
    IF the person is not endangering others, we have the moral right only
    to attempt persuasion.  What gives you the right to tell them what is
    good for them?

What's the difference?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter mathom.
 |warren@      But the chef
/ nysernet.org is ***.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:53:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.213833.21919@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.133137.27509@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>very cold milk
>>Fox's U-Bet (this does not constitute an endorsement or advertising.  The
>>		fact that you cannot make a real egg cream with anything
>>		else notwithstanding.)
>>chilled seltzer (in an emergency, club soda may be substituted. Shudder)
>
>It comes out wrong if you use bottled seltzer.  Seltzer delivered in
>"spritz" bottles works much better.  Unfortunately, they are hard to
>come by, these days.  My grandfather still gets them, but he's the
>only one I know of.

Some of the club soda makers now sell spritzer tops for their  2 liter
club soda bottles.  I haven't yet tried that in an egg creme so I don't
know if it's good enough to produce the right effect.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:14261 talk.politics.mideast:18618
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re:  Muslims killed in Yeguslavia
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:44:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Aug14.174402.10922
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <1992Aug14.130512.15061@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.122211.1273@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>In article <1992Aug08.150753.18802@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
>>nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>>>I admire Jews who are speaking up against these camps even though the Bosnians
>>>are Moslems.

                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>I'm not sure what you mean by "even though."  The vast majority of Jews
>>view this as a humanitarian issue, not a political or religious one.
>>Should we assume that the "even though" was because had we been discussing
>>Muslim reaction to Jews in camps similar concern would not have been shown
>>(a la the Jerusalem Mufti and his buddy Hitler)?

>Don't "Mufti" me now by making a relationship between the Mufti and Hitler.
>I said it because you consider there is a conflict between Jews and Islam
>and it was a good gesture to care for the Bosnian Moslem. Don't be ridiculous,
>a lot of Moslem countries faught on the side of the allies in WWII. If I was
>there, I would be the first one to protest the concentration camps.

Because I've never heard the word "Mufti" used as a verb, I can't be sure
I know when I'm not mufti-ing you.

In any event, I'm still curious about what you meant by "even though."
My mention of the Mufti was simply as an example of the ramifications
of what I think you might have meant.  Your response does not counter
my concern.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: targeting Jews (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Aug19.124103.5006@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<GRABINER.92Aug19163059@birkhoff.harvard.edu>
	<1992Aug20.125433.25985@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:02:10

In article <1992Aug20.125433.25985@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>   Further, many Christians already _do_ target Jews [for conversion].
>   Jews only target Jews.

Not quite.
Jews also target non-Jews who are married to or intend to marry Jews.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Are there any truly kosher butchers?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:46:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.184307.18820@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.143348.3657@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> I write:
>>   A weird thing happened to me when I went to get a chicken yesterday.
>>   The store owner wouldn't sell it to me until I had told him what
>>   torah I had learned that day. I told him Pesachin 49b, and so got
>>   the chicken. Anybody know how this idea is further developed?
>Interesting!  I wonder, if you said you hadn't learned any, would you
>be treated to an d'var Torah by the shopkeeper?  If so, I kinda like
>it.
  Ok, I should own up to being a smart-aleck. Pesachin 49b) says that
  those who do not study torah are forbidden from eating meat and fowl.
  I was wondering whether there is any further development of this
  anywhere.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: God on Earth?
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:41:52 GMT

>"This is a question from a naive but curious enthusiast. What is the 
>position, or positions, in Judaism on the role of God on earth? Has he 
>washed his hands off of it, so nature runs like clockwork according to 
>physical laws, and therefore we are the master of our destiny? If so, 
>what is the basis of our relationship to Him? On the other hand, if 
>nature strongly depends on advise from Him on how to bend the ``latest 
>physical law'', and on what to do next, why is there then so much grief 
>on earth, including a recent six million dead? Or, perhaps a combination 
>of both, nature (body) governed by universal timeless laws, and mind (soul)
>in constant interaction with Him? I realize that this is not exactly a 
>yes/no topic! Rather, I am looking for references, pointers, general 
>clarifications, or any insight you might offer." 

Judaism posits that G-d plays a continuing role in creation, at all
levels.  For example, if G-d ceased providing sustenance to creation
for even one instant, all would revert to chaos.

Torah teaches us that G-d created nature to maintain itself according
to certain "laws" -- the planets stay in their orbits and animals
reproduce within their own species.  But the Torah also tells of G-d's
direct interference in history and Jewish history is replete of
circumstances that go far beyond the bounds of "natural law."  Both
are possible.

One of the concepts that is relevant is called "hashgacha prahtit"
(literally "individual supervision").  Each and every entity in
creation has a continuing link to the spiritual worlds.  Some of these
are through "agents" and some are direct.

Another related concept is "hester panim" (literally "hidden face" or
"hidden presence").  If G-d's presence was apparent and
incontrovertible in this world, there would be little or no
opportunity for us to excercise free will, to come to G-d based on our
own decisions.  As it stands, we are not confronted with G-d's
presence and are free to act in consonance or disonance with G-d's
expressed will.

For a somewhat mystical treatise on Judaism's approach to suffering
and its meaning, see Gershon Winkler's "The Soul of the Matter."
(also found at the end of Winkler's book "Dybbuk" -- contact me if you
can't find it for it may be out of print).  For a less mystical
perspective see the chapter on suffering in the book "Rabbi Akiva"
(citation provided on request).

For reference, Hannu Toyryla recommended Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's (z"l)
english translation of Rabbi Moshe Chayyim Luzzato's "Derech Hashem"
("The Way of God").  I enthusiastically second that and add to it the
recently compiled two volume set of Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's works.  Also
see his "Handbook of Jewish Thought."

-- 
---

Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (preferred address)
moskowit@panix.com (alternate address)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish