HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fluted barrel
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:20:10 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <9301221128.AA21122@smuggler.Utah.univel.COM> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM writes:
#I just ordered a Bushmaster XM15-E2 from Quality Parts with a fluted
#barrel for $790 (OUCH!).  From their catalog, they claimed rigidity
#is increased by 20 to 25%, among other things such as better cooling
#and weight reduction.
#
#Does this claim of increase in barrel rigidity over a non-fluted heavy
#barrel sound valid to you?  They say that fluted barrels started out
#as heavy barrels and then they shave the metal away.

A fluted barrel will be stiffer than a cylinder of equal weight, but
less stiff than one of equal diameter.  On serious target barrels,
the fluting must be done before final lapping, as fluting redistributes
stress in the barrel.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Do you conclude from this that only voters may 
own books?
From: SYSTEMM@BARNEY.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Trouble in Mira Mesa
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:12 GMT


   Get your gun back, now!  Do not pass go, do not collect $200.  You might
   loan out your fishing equipment, your wife, or your car, but you don't
   loan out guns (on a quasi-permanent basis).  If this guy needs/wants a
   gun for self protection, he can get his own; they _can_ be had for as 
   little as $10-$25.  If you feel responsible for him, get him a baseball
   bat for an interim measure.

   *You* are responsible for whatever happens to/with that gun.  That includes
   any and all crimes, regardless if the gun was stolen.  At the least, it
   could get real ugly for you for awhile.  Did you ever hear of a "friendly"
   prosecuter?

   As to the shooting in the leg business - forget it!  You (and him) Take 
   some courses presented by "professionals", NRA INCLUDED.  Specifically
   look for the Personal Protection course.  Usually the Basic Handgun course
   is a prerequisite.  Good luck.  I have a feeling you're going to need it.

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
A man with a gun in his home is no threat to you if you aren't breaking into it!
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
From: peter629@Armstrong.EDU (James Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FFL dealer needed in Utah
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: Armstron.1993Jan26.171040.12063
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA


The main question is, if citizens can own full auto firearms.
The reason is, because I currently own a full auto AUG, I live in GA
where you can own a full auto with a tax stamp and authorization (paper
work) of your application, I might be moving to Utah and I wanted to
know if it is possible to have a dealer (class III) hold the weapon
until I have been approved?

Thanks for any help 

James
peter629@Armstrong.EDU
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:00:54 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:

#mac@cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun) writes:
##basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
###callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
###>>...  I was talking with my father about loads to keep 
###>>around the house for protection.  He said definetly use factory loads...
##For my around-the-house protection .357 Magnum pistols I use
##"POLICE CARTRIDGES .38 SPECIAL" (that's the writing on the box)
##manufactured by 3-D INV., INC., Doniphan, Nebraska.
##(For the curious, they are 158 Gr. Lead Round Nose.)

#-- 
#| Holger Reusch                             |
#| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
#| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
#| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |

Just to pick a nit, Holger, I didn't write a word of your inclusion.

No Harm Done,

David Basiji
UW Bioengineering
NeRD #3762
From: srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: [Pistol] Hi-Power question.
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:10 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


     Hi there again,

     I know that this question has been asked before but, it was before I 
bought my Browning so I didn't pay attention.

     I have a 1990 Browning Hi-Power 'Sport model' that might have a problem.
My gun will not eject an empty magazine once the slide is locked to the rear 
(as happens after it is empty). If the slide is forward, it will usually pop it
out either 1 inch or all the way. It depends which magazine I use.

     Is it supposed to push the magazine out if the slide is locked to the 
rear? Mine doesn't at all.

     What can I do to fix mine so it does?

                                          Thanks!!!
_____________________________________________________________________
| If you love something,    |  Shawn L. Rinehart                    |
| Let it go,                |  srinehar@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu |
| If it doesn't come back,  |  Ohio State Engineering               |
| Hunt it down and kill it. |                                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mjc5@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael J. Cavotta)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Kitten's Firearms handling (was:Seagal)
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) says:

#Anyway, I dimly recall one movie opening looking toward the
#muzzle of a pistol being fired, with the bullet spinning nicely
#toward the camera (I guess if it wasn't faked then they must have used
#a mirror so as not to shoot the camera!).  Does anybody remember the
#title of that movie?

	I think Ricochet starts with something like this.
-- 
Michael J. Cavotta                 
Proud American & NRA Member    (Down with the jibbering masses of liberalism!)
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
  "You either ride the steam-roller, or stand there whining and die" (Me).
From: maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SPAS-12 trivia question
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:10 GMT
Organization: Sweet Oblivion

vtessier@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Vince Tessier) writes:

# Well, my usually-reliable source is Kevin Dockery.  I fiddle with his 
# computers, and he fiddles with my pistols.  If you see an ad for Trijicon
# night sights showing a Hi-Power with a snazzy compensator, that's the
# Browning Kevin built for me with a 6" 41AE barrel.  BTW, the _Compendium_
# mentioned above was written as a gaming manual, but several military &
# other government agencies have bought it.  Kevin has also written
# _SEALs In Action_ about the Navy SEALs, and a biography of Jim Watson,
# one of the original 22 SEALs, will be published this fall.

I feel like I just fell into "The Cavern of Incredible Coincidences" !

Anyway, I think it's a great book. Heck, I have a SPAS 12, and I didn't
know what the hook was for until I read the book! It has great
descriptions of various firearms, but perhaps ironically, I think the
gaming side of it is a bit thin. It mainly works for systems that have
little or no firearms capability in themselves, and it mainly
concentrates on group size at various distances. I play GURPS and I
missed such things as how bad is the recoil, how fast the gun is to
bring into action etc. Hmmm... I think this is getting a bit out of the
charter, so I'll let it be.

Good book anyway, with lots of technical and trivia info.




--------
maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) Voice +358 0 8092681
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters
SnailMail: Maininkitie 8A8 SF 02320 ESPOO FINLAND
From: cower@csli.stanford.edu (Richard Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sacramento Armory price on 7.62X39 ammo
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:41:16 GMT
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University


The Sacramento Armory price ($99 per case) for 7.62X39 (East German, 
non-corrosive) posted to the net was for dealers. The normal price is
$139 per case.

thanks...rich
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: brass guns??
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:32:40 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:

#Most bronzes (other name form brass, contrary to myth) will be stronger
#that zinc and its alloys.  One passible exception is Zamak.  I've made a few
#castings using this metal and it did not impress me AT ALL.  Pretty cheap
#stuff.  

	I thought Zamek was a type of zinc?   You mean it is brass?

#I was surprised that it was strong enough to use in a gun.  I also
#noticed that I have not seen anything bigger than a .25 or .32 using this
#material.  Are there any, say, 9mm or 380 ACPs out there that are made of 
#this? 
#The idea gives me the willies, but who knows, maybe it is safe.

	EEA sells .38s and .357s that have frames made of "Zamek".
Bryco/Jennings/Davis (same difference) make every single pistol with
both frames and slides of solid cast zinc.  .25s, .22s, .32s, .380s, 
.38 derringers, and now a 75 dollar blowback 9mm Para.    Stores around
here don't carry them, but I checked a store out of town that catered
more to the trailer park set, and they have a whole section of the store
devoted to zinc proto-zips.  
	The Jennings Z-9 (%^) looks like a lump of zinc, with what looks 
like duct tape wrapped around the grip (to hold it together apparently), 
8^), ...not quite this bad but I don't understand how a Zinc 9mm could 
function unless it is to be thrown out after shooting one mag.  Stallard 
Arms makes zinc blowbacks in .40, .45 and 9mm.    

	Sleaze?  Me?  Never.  I want to beat those guys at their own
game with a line of single shot (as in one use) pistols made of particle 
board with duct-tape grips.   The frames will be a cut-out outline of
the venerable 1911, and in the words of Jan Libornel of G&A, will be
"A fine self defense gun for the budget (read 'crime') minded consumer".
(See "The Ultimate Bargain Combat Masterpiece!", page 39, G&A June 1994)

A jigsaw is all I need.   (My operations consultant, Mr Jennings, has 
advised me that particle board doesn't hold the rifling as well as real
wood, but I think he's just jealous he didn't think of it first.)

Jim
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trouble in MiraMesa
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:55:37 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1993Jan19.170624.15773@btree.uucp> btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik) writes:

}... I rent a room a a friends house,and my friend
}likes keeping one of my guns,a Ruger GP100
}.357 revolver, in His room for self-protection. ...
}... it is very
}hard to get him to practice with any frequency. ...
}... He also has the attitude that if He ever has
}to use the gun for defense,He'll "Shoot em in
}the leg!".

Sounds like your friend has some seriously unrealistic ideas about guns
and marksmanship.  How is he about safe handling? (Do you really want to
share a house with someone that ignorant who's armed?)

Another point:  Since the gun is yours, _you_ are legally liable for it.
I.e.:  If your friend does something stupid with it _you_ could be sued
for the damages.  For that reason there are _very_ few people I'd let use
one of my guns unsupervised.  All of them are known to me to be well
trained, knowledgeable and sensible.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Quick reloading question (bullets)
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:08:47 GMT
Organization: who knows

callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes...
#Another newbie reloading question....
# 
#I got some 240gr. SWCBB cast lead bullets, and I have two questions about
#them. 
#First, what does SWCBB stand for? I figured out Semi-Wad-Cutter, but what's
#the BB for? 

bevel base?
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:56 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <C1H50s.Mqn@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#Who said anything about death and destruction? We're talking about a simple
#hobby, where there is no criminal intent. And _that_ is what your
#character witnesses can testify to. Paper punching is a legitimate,
#recognized sport, with governing bodies--hell, it's an Olympic sport!
#It's also sanctioned by the US Government--ever heard of DCM competitions?
#(OK, so the DCM competitions are designed to ensure that we have soldiers
#who can hit their targets if we're ever in such dire straits as to need
#them, but it's still a sport, and it still doesn't involve "death and
#destruction." How many DCM shooters actually plan to wind up taking shots
#at other people?)

Sure.  I know that.  You know that.  David, the programmer in the next 
office over knows that.  But if you get a procescutor with an animosity 
toward legitimate means of self-defense, and you watch you iterest in 
shooting sports get painted up as a "morbid facination... etc. ad nauseum."

We need more shooters on juries.  We need more safe, informed shooters, 
period.

###But you're right; we know better, and we're not the jury--although, by
###rights, a handloader should be tried by people who actually understand
###handloading and shooting. You know, that "jury of your peers" stuff...
##
##This is a mis-conception.  You are not entitled to a "jury of your peers" 
##over here, but a jury of "12 good men and true."  A jury of your "peers" is 
##a phrase from english common law meaning that peasants would not wind up 
##haveing to judge nobles and nobles wouldn't get to judge peasants.  
#
#Nowhere does the constitution say that you're entitled to any number
#of jurors. It says that you are entitled to "a speedy and public
#trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the
#crime shall have been committed," and a few other things about the 
#actual process.  It can be argued that a jury which is ignorant of
#the facts re: handloading and shooting do not constitute an impartial
#jury, but this is neither the time, nor the venue for such arguments...

Yep.  Mea culpa.  I was trying to address the "of you peers" business, and I 
overstepped my knowledge.

Lo siento.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

[MODERATOR:  I'd like to see this migrate elsewhere now that we are 
getting so much more into legalisms, etc.  Thanks]
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm Glock problems?(10mm Velocities)
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:00:11 GMT


In article <72zC03YNc9Wm00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, barry@uts.amdahl.com
(Barry Needham) wrote:

# One of my 10mm Glocks now has slightly over 30,000 rounds through it.  Mostly
# 175 grain lead SWC at 1100 FPS, but I have experimented with some very hot
# loads:
# 
# 	200 Grain, JFP @ 1250 FPS	Kids, don't try this at home!
# 	155 Grain, JHP @ 1600 FPS
#                   ^^^^^^^^
# I also routinely function test (that's technical for shooting off the carry
# magazine) 175 Grain Winchester Silvertips moving at 1300 FPS.
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^

Are your velocities from a chronograph?  I've owned too M20's and both
wouldn't break 1200fps @ 15ft with Silvertips.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FFL Application Form Question?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:37:57 GMT
Organization: Technology News, IIT, Chicago, IL

In article <1993Jan23.021157.15986@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
)WES@SSCVX1.ssc.gov (Wes Smith) writes:
)
)#I received an FFL application yesterday in the mail.  The BATF people seem
)#real adamant about the FFL being issued for business purposes, rather than
)#personal use (my intentions).  They insist that you have regular business
)#hours and be open to the public.  Since I am not intending to buy and sell
)#guns as a business would, and not keep regular hours for the public (I
)#don't even wish to deal with the public), how do I answer on the form?  Is
)#this some attempt by the Feds to limit the FFLs being issued?  It seems
)#unreasonable to me that they would attempt to limit issuance to business
)#organizations only.  Or did I miss a real obvious answer for the hobbyist?
)
)Two simple ways to comply:
)
)1) 	Set short business hours: one hour a week, either after work or
)during the weekend, when you are home.  My business is open from 
)9-10 am on Saturday. 
)
)2)	Give hours as "by appointment only".   This is a legitmate way
)to run a business, and I know of dealers who advertise their hours as
)this.   How the BATF reacts to this in leu of a set "open doors" time I
)cannot answer, because I chose #1 to minimise potential objections.
)
)JD

	The BATF asks this question because they need to knwo what hours
they can expect you to be "open for business" so they can have fixed times
in which they will know you are available in the event that they wish to
examine your records.

	By signing the form you give them consent to visit you, without
calling ahead, anytime during the business hours you specify. As far as I
know they DO NOT require that you admit the _public_ during those hours,
just that you be present to admit _them_.

-- 
 The most important service rendered by the press is that of educating
 people to approach printed matter with distrust.

technews@iitmax.iit.edu                           kadokev@harpo.iit.edu
                         My Employer Disagrees.
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Blowing up a rifle
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:56:04 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

In article <199301260552.AA11169@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
#Sorry, I forgot to mention it was bottleneck rifle cases being filled. Hmmm,
#wonder how many grains of bullseye fit into a 308 case? Wonder who'd be crazy
#enough to fire it once loaded. Guess it wouldn't exactly qualify as a
#subsonic load :-)
#
#[MODERATOR:  I dunno ... I bet the bolt might approach better than subsonic
#speeds as it blows back, thought only for the fraction of a second before it
#lodges in the shooter's skull...]

Well, I once saw on a gunsmiths bench the results of the firing of a
.30-06 case filled with the Bullseye volume equivalent of a 4985 load
(about 46 grains).  The load was fired in a Springfield 03A3 and there
wasn't a lot of rifle left.  The barrel was split in front of the
receiver with large pieces missing.  A scope had been mounted and was
now suitable as a periscope.

The lugs did hold, though.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   russ@bbx.basis.com, bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
"It's better to be quotable than to be honest" - Tom Stoppard
From: mfolenta@pica.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: PISTOL: Duty/Combat Gun vs Target/IPSC Gun (was about SIG cult)
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:36 GMT


In article <1k14eqINN4nm@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> Dave Bernard wrote:
# Paul Yoshimune writes:
# 
# #The upshot of the whole deal was that the SIG was far and away the best combat
# #or duty gun to have, but was less than ideal for constant target shooting.
# #Unfortunately, I'm using mine for IPSC matches right now...  :-(  Just some
# #i
# 
# I think I'm missing something, because I didn't totally understand this.  What I
# got was, the model lacks a certain amount of durability and reliability when used
# in a target range, but somehow regains durability and reliability in the
# field?  What am I missing?
# 
# 	Dave

     No, a gun doesn't gain (or lose) durability when used as a duty/combat gun,
 but it also most likely doesn't get the same amount of use/abuse as a target/IPSC
 type of gun.

     It is just the level of actual use and abuse that the guns get in their
 different usages differs.  A combat/duty gun will see what, maybe 1000 rounds
 through it in a year if the user takes it to the range a LOT.  And an IPSC/target
 shooter who shoots/competes regularly (and hence practices regulary) will 
 conceivably put 1000 rounds or more through the gun in a MONTH.

     Just different uses for different guns.  As an anology, a modern consumer
 type of automobile will go for 50,000 to 100,000 miles before the engine needs
 an overhaul, assuming a minimum of mechanical maintenance up to that point.
 But a top fuel dragster will have the engine overhauled every couple of race runs,
 maybe every 10 miles (40 1/4 mile runs or less).  But the race car will go 295+ mph
 and will do the 1/4 mile in 5 seconds or so and is pumping out 5000+ hp.  Think
 your street car will come close to that level of performance? 

     It's all in the usage.  And different uses have different levels of performance
 associated with them.


       ***** These are my opinions.  Get your own. :-) *****
      Michael Folenta          | U.S. Army ARDEC
   Future Weapons Branch       | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000
  email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3880  [AV 880-3880]
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:17 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <19594@smoke.brl.mil>, by gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn):
# 
# In article <C18z76.DMz@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
# #Factory loads are, in point of fact, often more powerful than handloads.
# 
# True, and the original question raised the wrong objection.  The usual
# legal issue is said to be that the prosecution can make you out as
# "obsessed" with guns if you "roll your own deadly ammo", as part of
# painting a picture of you as bloodthirsty and looking for an excuse to
# kill/wound.  Of course we know better but we're not the jury.
# 


Hmmmm, what if you use factory ammo in a defense shooting, but the
prosecutor, etc. know that you reload your own ammunition?  BTW, is the
prosecution one should worry about here, or a civil suit lawyer?
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)