HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: norbeck@sirius.cs.bucknell.edu (Naughty Nukes NY in her 1999 Nissan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Date: 5 Jan 1993 13:35:41 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.cs.bucknell.edu

In article <JMC.93Jan4235352@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.070910.17915@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>
>jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE):
>>On the other hand, today's science degree serves one useful purpose for the
>>rest of us: it certifies that the holder thereof cannot read, write or reason,
>>and should therefore be provided with secretaries, lab managers, and graduate
>>assistants to do these things for said holder.
>
>Bah, humbug.  Science graduates write as well as graduates in English,
>and include far less nonsense in what they write.  The literacy level
>of the PMLA isn't as high as that of _Science_ or _Nature_.

Bah, humbug indeed.  Those science graduates who _can_ write may do so
more clearly than English graduates (who, by the way, are taught to
write that way, for reasons unknown to man or God), but that's not to
say that _all_ of them can write.  Look around Usenet for a while, in
a group other than this one, and you'll see written atrocities of the
sort that only high school teachers ever saw, until things like Usenet
rolled around.  I don't just mean spelling mistakes, some of which can
be assumed to be typos, but many of which quite obviously aren't, but
also basic grammar problems and some posts that just make absolutely
no sense to the point where you can't even make an educated guess at
what the poster was trying to say (one particular poster comes to mind
here, but I'll keep silent to protect the guilty, but if you don't
believe me, you might try checking out rec.arts.drwho, for starters).
What's even more amusing is when one scientist or programmer decides
to correct another's posted grammar, but makes the wrong changes,
thinking they're the right ones...

I don't deny that there are science grads out there who can write and
write well.  But you really can't compare science graduates to English
graduates on the whole.  English grads may not always be as clear, but
they're correct, which is more than can be said for many science grads.


>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305

Nancy Norbeck, English Dept.








--
|.."I've heard snappier comebacks from a bowl of Rice..|....Nancy Norbeck.....|
|......Krispies."  Charles Emerson Winchester III......|.norbeck@bucknell.edu.|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Puff for STAND
From: dlatane@hibbs.vcu.edu (David E. Latane)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 18:27:27 GMT
Expires: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 05:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University


People interested in keeping up with writing (poetry & fiction) in
the UK and the post-colonial world beyond the environs of TLS might
be interested in Stand Magazine. It's a quarterly in its 34th volume,
reasonably priced, with good advertisements and omnibus reviews--and
nonprofit (for the gods of the Internet). The primary editors are Jon
Silkin, Lorna Tracy, and Rodney Pybus.

Stand Magazine
179 Wingrove Road
Newcastle upon Tyne NE4DA
U.K.

subscription, 9.95 pounds, $22.

dlatane@hibbs.vcu.edu
David Latane
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Organization: Moi?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:42:44 GMT

I feel a little guilty for starting this up (VERY little), but I must hop
in here and make Vince feel better.  I read more than 25pp/hr, of what I
read the most, mysteries, closer to 80 pp/hr, and the books are usually
under 200 pages.  Therefore, I can read at least a book of that nature a
day, which is what I've done so far this year.  I just finished book 12...
but they're all mysteries, by Disney, Wentworth, Lillian ODonnell and
Julie Smith.  
 
I've also promised myself not to go back to a bookstore till I've read and
gotten rid of 14 books, my take so far this year, so the pressure's on to
read the popcorn stuff, not the Paglia and Johnson and other more serious
studious stuff discussed in r.a.b., which sounds fascinating.

I did just read a 1990 _New Yorker_ article about the fall of Jim and Tammy
Bakker, and wonder if there's a book out on the topic.

But when I have a life, Vince, I don't read this much.  (I certainly didn't
manage 10 books on *my* honeymoon!)  And when I'm not in a book-a-day mystery
mood, the pace also slows down.

--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
                              | and stick together.
CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum    
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Bookstore Anecdote
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:14:26 GMT

	I wrote the following to Andrew Hall's comment about Borders
giving pre-employment tests to jobseekers:
	
>>	Really? Is this true? And if it is, isn't it discriminatory?


	Well, I give up. This was just a joke, admittedly facetious,
but possible based on an extrapolation of several threads going on
here. Certainly civil rights for the stupid is a possibility, although
they do have to get organized to claim such rights. Although since
people have been patiently explaining the stupidity of my comment I
guess I might be soon petitioning for redress.

	No discrimination based on intelligence. 

	Nothing less than a constitutional amendment.

	Keith

--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: The Wall Street Journal (was: 1992 in Review)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 JAN 93 22:00:56 GMT

Miriam Nadel writes:

>Some of us find the stock market intriguing.  

I guess that's true.  I worked for a Wall Street investment banking 
firm for four years, and dang, those Big Swinging Dicks sure found the
stock market interesting.  I didn't, though, and still don't.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 12 JAN 93 04:49:13 GMT

Elena A Christofides writes: 

>The one major reason I agree with much of Paglia's sentiments center around
>her treatment of the "empowerment of women" and how modern day feminists
>have done more to degrade and diminish the power of the woman. 
>I'm more offended by a woman who upon incurring some terrible (verbal)
>assault (I DON'T MEAN RAPE!) by a member of the opposite sex, 
>say in the workplace, like "Hey baby, come over here and show off your hot 
>legs!" Runs off to some authority crying "BooHooHoo, he said BAD things to 
>me!" Instead of just kicking him in the shins and telling him to go to
>hell! 

Michael Sean Rooney writes: 

>        This is all well and good, but who are these "crybaby" feminists? 

Were you paying any attention a while back when Clarence Thomas was going
through his confirmation hearings?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nemet@ide.com (Todd Nemet)
Subject: Re: academic settings
Organization: Interactive Development Environments, SF
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:56:07 GMT

     _Book:  A Novel_ by Robert Grudin takes place mostly
at an imaginary college called Washagon University.  Most
of the plot deals with the disappearance of an English
professor and the nasty politics within the English depart-
ment.  (The Bad Guys are the literary theorists and the
Good Guys are the regular English teachers.)

     The funniest part of the book is the post-tenure
review of the missing professor.  The professors' dialogue
is supplemented with margin notes and footnotes.  The margin
notes explain what perspective each person is arguing from
while the footnotes eventually get disgusted and start offering
their opinions of the person talking.

     I think that anyone more knowledgeable of English
departments than I would find this book even funnier than I did
(just like the time I loaned _Pale Fire_ to a coworker who
was dating a professor at the time). 

Yours, etc.,

Todd Nemet

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:12:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.203556.7692@ninja.zso.dec.com> rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley) writes:
>you name it.  One of the ones acquired comparatively late focused on American
>folklore:  Paul Bunyan and the like.  I'm interested in finding other
>sources for these tales.  

	A bunch of dead fuckers.

	You're welcome,


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: benton@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Madness and Modernism
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:44:56 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has read and has opinions of the
book _Madness and Modernism_ by Louis Sass. This book proposes the theory that
schizophrenia bears a significant resemblance to certain aspects of a cultural
phenomenon which the author identifies as "modernism" though he admits some
difficulty in specifying exactly what this is.

The  most problematic proposition in the book is the author's disdain for
current theories of biological bases of schizophrenia and other brain
disorders. He relegates his main attack on these to an appendix, perhaps to
de-emphasize the extent to which his ideas differ from the current dominant
thinking in his field.

Still, there is a lot of information here, and many provocative notions.

Regards, 
G.O. Benton
Santa Rosa, CA.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
	<C0I6Gv.89o@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> <1993Jan8.042508.1361@spdcc.com>
	<13887@optilink.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:47:55 GMT


>>>>> "Clayton" == Clayton Cramer (cramer@optilink.COM)

Clayton> Take your nonsensical claim that "white Protestant het boys" don't
Clayton> know about discrimination, and shove it.

Just as we thought this thread had gotten about as silly as it could
get, Clayton pops up and shows us once again that he can beat anyone,
anywhere when it comes to silliness.

Got show, Clayton. Now go away.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sm@g2.ph.man.ac.uk (Steve Mowbray)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: fictional or not, women, cross-dressin
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:06:54 GMT
Reply-To: sm@g2.ph.man.ac.uk
Organization: University of Manchester, UK

In article 27301@nas.nasa.gov, wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
>_9 and 1/2 Weeks_ has a cross dressing episode in it.  I don't remember
>the aurhor's name.  The book is very terse, reads almost like an

Elizabeth McNeil(l?)

---
Steve Mowbray, Physics Department, University of Manchester, U.K.
-  Janet: sm@uk.ac.man.ph.g2  or  Internet: sm@g2.ph.man.ac.uk  -
- "I have always known that cork is a funny thing" - The Carrot -
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Cajuns
Date: 11 Jan 1993 13:12:00 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Ted B Samsel writes:

	laissez le bon ton roulet, y'all

Laissez les bons temps rouler" may be what you have in mind: it was
certainly what I had in mind when I last visited New Orleans.

							RABworm
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Ex" Catholics (was Re: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 4 Jan 1993 22:09:36 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1JAN199316094845@rigel.tamu.edu> spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu
(SubGenius) writes: In response to:

>> (Francis Muir) writing:  >BTW, there are no ex-Catholics. and 
>>Being one myself, I prefer the term "recovered Catholic."--Barry
>+---------------------------------------SubG-----------------------------------+
>	You don't have to excuse yourself to me--we're all liberals
>	here.  I know many lapsed Catholics.  Some of my best friends
>	are lapsed Catholics.
>						--More or less what
>						  Sir Lawrence Oliver
>						  said to Michael Caine
>						  in the film version of
>						  the play _Sleuth_
>
>Actually, with the exception of Jewish Atheists, I think you'll find that 
>reformed Papists are, if one decideds to group it this way, the most
>populous creed in the realm of wordsmiths.  That is assuming that you
>don't allow them to fill in the `religion' blank of the application form with
>`curmudgeon.'
>
>Source of the
>closing notwithstanding,
>of course,
>Yours etc.,
>
>SubGenius

Two burning questions to all De-Frocked RCr.a.b.ble

1) Explain to me, if you can, why I learned most of my sacriligious songs
from practicing Catholics.  **Only three** did I learn from TWWBIHFE (those
who will burn in Hell for eternity):   the whole song--"Plastic Jesus," which
originally was written with great sincerity in West Texas, if my sources
are not lying to me--and two fragments--"Be-boppin Jesus, He's My Savior"
and "Jesus Was a Teen-Ager Too"--both taught me by my heretical acolyte,
who may have made them up or perhaps channeled them from a priestly
ancestor. 
2)  If he *didn't* make them up (see above), does anyone know the ****whole
song?****

Mary Loveless  hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
 nothing to do with the University of Washington.
*"Too much of a good thing can be *wonderful*."  Mae West
*"I wonder how I'd look in *Madonna's* underwear."  Zippy the Pinhead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: Re: The Gold Bug Variations
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:17:06 GMT
Summary: The Gold Bug

In article <1ice4lINNf89@news.gac.edu>, zaphod@dion.gac.edu (William Voelker) writes:
> I read this book over Christmas and found it to be one of the best-written  
> books in years.  Comments?  Comparisons? (I find it to be a 90's version  
> of _The_Recognitions_ by Wm. Gaddis)  

This is on my wannaread list. I'm wondering if there's any explicit
reference to Poe's The_Gold_Bug in the book. I browsed through pretty
extensively and didn't see one. I reread TGB and it seems
to almost form a template for TGBV ( Hence the title ? ) There 
are many obvious cross-references as well. I note that Jupiter is
even mentioned in TGBV in the form of the Jupiter Symphony.
( Yes, I did see the stuff about the Goldberg Variations. )

Re: TGB, there is an egregious inconsistency in a crucial part
of the action. Jupiter drops the bug through the wrong eye of the
skull, causing an error of three inches which amplifies to "several
yards" in the treasure location. However, this is way out of line
with the scheme, which is to extend a line from the tree trunk
( a large tulip tree ) through the bug by fifty feet. The error
would be less than a foot, allowing fifteen feet for the length
of the branch. It's interesting that this is the point where
Jupiter's supposed stupidity comes into play.

TGB ends with the question of how many blows were required to
kill the men whose skeletons were found on top of the treasure.
I'm wondering to what extent this and other themes in TGB can
be found in TGBV. Note that the gold bug and the treasure in
TGB stand in relation as TGB and TGBV, for example! ( Well, maybe. )

Lew Mammel, Jr.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24631 soc.culture.british:18491
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: academic settings
Date: 11 Jan 93 03:14:56 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <10JAN199320002764@pavo.concordia.ca> c_mcdon@pavo.concordia.ca (MCDONNELL, CATHERINE) writes:
>Francis Muir writes:
>>One of Evelyn Waugh's funniest tales involved a public school 
>>teacher who ends up in gaol (?). I have a vague memory of a scene
>>in the Scrubbs (Wormwood Scrubbs for the incog.) chapel the evening
>>before a hanging where the words of the hymn "Og God, our help in ages 
>>past" are altered to suit. But enough. Early Waugh is very, very good.
>
>That's _Decline and Fall_, in which the mild-mannered hero ends up
>in jail due to a comedy of errors. On brooding about the situation,
>he says to himself: "...anyone who has been to an English public
>school will always feel comparatively at home in prison. It is the
>people brought up in the gay imtimacy of the slums, Paul learned,
>who find prison so soul-destroying."
>
>Great stuff, yes.
>
>Kate

Not so long ago an Englishman was released after spending several
months in an Iraqi prison. Immediately after release he held a
press conference in which he said something to the effect that:

``After English public school and the British army, it wasn't so bad.''
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24814 alt.sex:41897
From: gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Homophobia 
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 14:48:03 GMT

In article <C0Hto0.z2@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:

>I.e. rights are inherent in *individual* human beings, by virtue of
>their being human, possessive of moral free agency and rational
>soul, and being of an age of majority capable of exercising rational
>judgment. Rights are not inherent in minority groups or collectivities
>of any kind.

Since heterosexuals are a collectivity, and since in your support for
Colorado #2 you are advocating granting special rights to
heterosexuals, this is a contradiction to the above.  In a previous
post, you involved yourself in a related self-contradiction: you
advocated legislation saying that gays and lesbians should not be
given a special status vis a vis rights.  However, any legislation
which singles out these sexual orientations would necessarily give
them a special status.

A more consistent position would be to argue that no special status be
granted to anyone on the grounds of sexual orientation.  I've seen few
signs that very many heterosexuals are contemplating giving up certain
special rights they now enjoy (e.g. adoption, marriage) however.

In order not to spread unwanted memes, I've re-directed this to
alt.politics.homosexuality.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Cross-Writing (was: Books I Got For Xmas)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:09:25 GMT

In article <5JAN93.14315028@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>All I can remember from the reviews I read and the comments
>that I heard at the time was, "What a pleasant change to have a female
>action hero". I don't recall anyone specifically pointing out, "How
>interesting it is that Harris, being a man, can write believably from
>a female perspective."  On the other hand, the Anne Rice comments I've
>heard have been along the lines of, "She's a woman, but she can write from
>a male point of view, isn't that great!"

Much of the discussion of Norman Rush's MATING concerned criticisms of his
portrayal of a woman narrator. Some WELL users (male and female) believe
his narrator is unconvincing as a woman.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:04:35 GMT

In article <C061AL.I8L@panix.com> mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>This is the same woman who used to sleep with The Norton Anthology, when
>I was married to her.

Ah, yes.  This is just like the ex-boyfriend who once commented that my
idea of a menage a trois was him, me and Rex Stout.

Miriam Nadel
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:53:14 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1ikcpm$nbh@agate.berkeley.edu>, spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
> > Mike Morris writes:
> > (attribution missing) writes:
# ## Had CO2 listed heterosexuality as also barring one from a claim to "any
# ## minority status, quota preferences, protected status or claim of
# ## discrimination," I might (*might*) actually believe that someone might
# ## think it was intended to provide equal protection to all.  As it stands
# ## it clearly does not.
# 
# # I would think that it would have been much better if CO2 had said
# # ``Sexual Orientation''.
# 
# An amusing thing happens if you disallow wrongful termination
# action for termination due to "sexual orientation".
# 
# You then have a situation where an employer can fire *any*
# employee, listing whatever their sexual orientation is
# as the reason, and be free from any consequences.
# 
# In other words, just like the old days...
# 
# Steve

Exactly.  Working for an employer is mutual.  You quit when you
get tired of them, they fire you when they get tired of you.
Find employers that you agree with, or who don't care what you
do after hours.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: an1060@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Book Binders
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: rec.arts.books
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:06:04 GMT

X-Anon-To: rec.arts.books

Hello,

I hope this is not an FAQ...anyhow....I have a few books that I would like
bound/re-bound, are there any book binderies that deal with the public??
Please send company names and addresses (and cost, if known) to:

mantell@ams.sunysb.edu

Many thanks in advance!!!

Abe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan9.070714.28797@genie.slhs.udel.edu>  
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
> But Johnson seems to admit this in his chapter on Shelley, where he  
says
> that Shelley's life seems to cast a shadow over his poetry, which  
Johnson
> claims to admire.
> 
In fact, he says much the same thing about Tolstoy, Ibsen, and
I think a few of the others.  He admires their work a lot,
and thinks they have done significant things.  For many
of the people he describes, the book seems to take the stance
of "look at the great things these people did but look at how
abominably they acted in their private lives."
--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books