From: rajain@sml3.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain)
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Organization: Project Pilgrim, Umass
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:11:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.224135.23117@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov16.181305.715@cirrus.com> venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
|> >>In <1992Nov16.140428.12218@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@quads.uchicago.edu
|> >>(Kateri/Mary Anne) writes: 
|> >
|> >I am cross-posting this to sci since that was where the newsgroup

	[a llllllot of interesting points deleted ]


|> 
|> 3. If input from men is what is needed, a forum such as SCI would
|> suffice.

	Please think again because soon SCI is to be changed to SCIMNW......
	soc.culture.indian.men.no.women !!!

|> 
|> 5. There are other arenas for men to discuss woen's issues, with
|> women's inpu, whereas there is none for women to just network
|> with other women, be as outspoken as they'd like to be without being

	Agreed, but are you implying that women are prohibited from 
	using the same forum(s) ??? Please look around you (not too far
	either....just refer to soc.penpals, rec.humor, soc.singles,
	even soc.men and soc.women !!!) and you'll see that a lot of men AND 
	women *are* participating in discussions w/o creating sexist mailing
	lists ! Or maybe it's just that Indian women are......(no offense
	intended but it's obvious that it's the Indian women who want to
	have an "exclusively women......no pigs, errrr.. I mean no men"
	mailing list !). This is a nice way of showing how insecure Indian
	women are !!! (and it's a shame --- for Indian men and women).

|> watched. In this sense this is really not excluding men in the way
							   ^^^^^^^^^^^
|> women are excluded from many spaces. The analogy the poster drew
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	
	Ma'am, *which* way are you talking about ? 


|> was a support group for Black Engineering Students at a prestigious public
|> univ. which excludes whites and others. Is this exclusion or
|> not? Should the black students feel obliged to include others?
|> 
|> 6. If the men who want to join the discussion group are really 
|> interested in discussing women's issues along with women, why
|> doesn't someone start a group meant to do just that? The 

	Great! Let's start a group soc.culture.indian.men.on.women.issues,
	and while we are in the process of setting up such a group, why not
	create soc.culture.indian.women.on.men.issues and soc.culture.indian.
	men.who.are.not.pigs.as.defined.by.indian.women ????

	In fact as someone had asked sometime ago when SCIT was formed,
	why not start uo SCIPunjabi, SCIGujrati, SCIOriya and of course
	SCIHindi :-) !!!

|> presence of this discussion group doesn't exclude any other
|> group which includes men, and which has women's issues on its
|> agenda.
   ^^^^^^^

	Are you for real ? Just checking ! Since when did newsgroup start
	having an "agenda" ??? Topics, issues...fine, but "agenda" ???


|> 
|> Now, as I said before, there were many members who felt it's
|> ok to have men as members. And at least one member rasied the question of
|> whether it is fair to exclude men. 

	[Uma's loong but interesting (to women, mainly) personal thoughts 
	  deleted ]


|> Hope this  suffices to show that the decision (as things stand now)
|> that this is an all-women forum is not just reached by the
|> moderators. The moderators have simply made it possible for
|> the members to express their opinion on this matter and decided
|> that as long as some women feel that it ought to be an all-women
|> group, their preferences have to to be respected.
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Sure, I respect them. But what about the preferences of the men?
	Or do you women care about *your* preferences only ? Get real !!!



|> 
|> Uma Subramanian

	[some clarifications of Amirthi's post also deleted to save 
	bandwidth :-)]


|> 
|> 3. This is certainly no secret cult. Announcing it in so many 
|> newsgroups is certainly a very inefficient way of forming a 
|> secret cult.

	To me it *does* sound like a cult....secret or not-secret !!!

|> 
|> >I have left
|> >Amirthi's postin in its enirity since I am cross-posting it to SCI.

	[loooong post deleted]


PS: But how could I resist including my .signature when I saved so much 
    bandwidth above :) So here it is !!!

					regards,

						rAjAt.
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		 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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		|	Rajat Jain						|
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