HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wcf@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Bike Club Survey
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:37:51 -0500

			Bike Club mini-Survey

How does your Bike Club:
	Rate club rides?  i.e. A, B, C, what do the ratings represent, 
		do ratings consider rider ability or ride difficulty.

	Allow for differences in rider ability?  i.e. do slower (generally
		newer) riders get dropped, does someone ride sweep, etc.

	Attract new members and KEEP them.

How would you rate YOUR club and what makes it successful.
			************
I'll collect responses and post a summary. Please post the responses or 
Email them to me.

					Thanks, Chris

+===========================================================================+
	Chris Fooshee - University of Florida - CFREC - Apopka
			WCF@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
+===========================================================================+
From: hooning@cirrus.com (Mike Hooning)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Transportation Planning regional conferences, Phone, locations, dates
Keywords: ISTEA, Transportation spending, bicycling, Intermodal transport
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:38:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

Thanks for the information - I'm sure these conferences will help to
unravel the incredibly complicated process that has been put in place
to distribute the money from the latest Surface Transportation act.
Of course, the first year's allocation is already being distributed,
so it is imperative that bicycle activists find out what's going on
in their area as soon as possible (last spring was not too early!)
If you missed the process  in the first year, you'd better find out
who's making the decisions in your area and start lobbying!

By the way, an "MPO" is a Metropolitan Planning Organization", which
is ISTEA-speak for the group that distributes the money in the area
around a population center (in the Seattle area, it is the Puget
Sound Regional Council).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hooning              Cirrus Logic, Inc.
hooning@cirrus.com           Bellevue, Washington
                             (206) 889-1684
------------------------------------------------------------------------	
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: kprender@jscprofs.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Cycling and Environmentalism
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:55:46 GMT

In article <71905@cup.portal.com> JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester)
writes:
>
 My motivation should be clear to all: I aim for the good of
>cyclists. So far as I can see, that is an environmentally sound
>position, and I care about the environment. If that upsets the
>environmentalists, so much the worse for them. Any time that
>environmentalists want to adopt a program that is good for cyclists,
>they need only say so, because it is all ready for them.
>
 John,  I was disappointed to hear you lump anyone with an environmental	
interest into a group called "environmentalists". As I'm sure you know there
are hundreds of environmental organizations (i.e Greenpeace, Nature
Conservancy, Audobon Society), who are also environmentalists whose views are
not expressed thru the Sierra club. In addition, one article in a magazine does
not represent the voice of all Sierrans of which there are   thousands. I
commute regularing to my job, am a member of my local bicycle club and am also
a member of the Sierra Club and Nature Conservancy. Although your motivation is
good, I think your message is confused. Safety is a major concern of all
cyclists. In the Texas Vehicle Code, Bicycles are considered vehicles and are
entitled to the same privaleges and responsibilites of a motorist. Whether we
are in a bike lane or the shoulder of the road we are no match for a 2+ ton
automobile. As a group we must all become a stronger presence in our local
polical processes  if we want to improve our image and safety among motorists .
I believe that CYCLISTs, not environmental groups, have the responsibility to
educate themselves and others on their legal rights, the problems and
solutions. Every  minority group I can think of that has had success in getting
laws passed to support their views, Afro-americans, Women, ENVIRONMENTALISTS,
have themselves given the effort. Rather than alienate what you term
"environmentalists" help educate them whenever you can with facts not emotion.
And remember, the automotive mentality has been prevalent for decades. It will
not be dispelled quickly. So have patience, be active and keep pedaling.
From: JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Cycling and Environmentalism
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:13:26 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

   John Ciccarelli suggests that it wasn't until after adoption of
the California Bicycle Facility Standards that we learned that
intersections are the most dangerous sections of bike paths. This is
not so. This was known long before those standards were adopted; it
was even known to some extent in 1937, because I based my initial
(1972) response to sidewalk bikeways on what I had read about the
arguments that the British Cyclists' Touring Club used in that year
to win its fight against side paths. A partially developed form of
the knowledge (without Cross's car-bike collision statistics) was
part of my paper that killed the first California attempt at bikeway
standards (Bikeway Planning Criteria and Guidelines), and the fully
developed form with Cross's car-bike collision statistics was part of
my opposition to the California Bicycle Facility Committee when it
was preparing the first issue of the standard that we have today. 

   My complaint about the political process is that the bikeway
standards were inflicted upon us despite the knowledge that they were
not intended to, would not, and could not, reduce accidents to
cyclists, but would to some extent increase the accident rate for
cyclists. Had the environmentalists stood with cyclists against the
bikeway standards that the highway-minded part of government was
insisting on, we might have got a better, safer, much more
conservative, standard than was issued. As it happened, cyclists
stood alone and people who talked up the environment while giving the
impression that they were cyclists allowed the government to say that
it had the support of some cyclists. 

JForester@cup.portal.com               John Forester
                                       726 Madrone Ave
408-734-9426                           Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: kpalm@doc.qualcomm.com (Kent Palm)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:31:18 GMT

Roller Fusion, "The blending of indoor cycling computer-aided training with
the thrill of racing." 

Basically, it's like a big cycle computer, but instead of the pick up being
on your wheel, it's on the roller or trainer.  This allows monitoring of
the pedal stroke, as well as speed and distance.

I used it for the first time this morning.  It's great!  I had the best
work out that I've had in a long time on rollers.  First, I rode a hard
5 miles by myself, recorded the results with the push of a button, then
made that ride my competition for another 5 miles!  This time I was
competing against myself!  "Ghostrider" is what they call this feature,
but you could have up to 6 real live riders (or Ghostriders) competing
on the same computer.  I'm using the hybrid American Classic rollers
with it.  By the way, I did stay ahead of the first ride.  Whew, what a
workout!  And this was my Christmas present????  I should go back to bed.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: uevans@med.unc.edu (Elizabeth A. Evans)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get?
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:54:28 GMT

What bike gifts for Christmas?  

A pair of wonderful marbelized blue and purple tights (from Womyn's
Wheel) to match a jersey I got myself several months ago.  (Thanks,
again, Rick!)  They feel *great*!  They fit right!  The colors are
wonderful!

Also, a saddle cover in tiger stripes to match my tiger helmet cover
(also, thanks, Rick!).  Everytime I walk by my bike now, I reach out
and stroke it.  :-)  (Now if it would just stop raining so I could get
out and show this stuff off!)

-- Libby
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Drawing lines
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1993 14:23:56 -0500

In a message to Gregory D. Surbeck, Marc San Soucie writes:

 MSS> Automotorists tend to consider the space to the right of the centerline
 MSS> and to the left of the shoulder to be theirs to use as they choose. If
 MSS> there is no painted line at the right border of the motor portion of the
 MSS> travel lane, an automotorist is likely to consume the entire space. A
 MSS> clear line delineates Good Driving from Bad Driving.

In this case, I tend to disagree with you, Marc. Drawing a line for a bike lane
does not make it any safer for cyclists. Motorists are still going to cross
that line to make right turns, and intersections are exactly the most dangerous
places for cyclists. Making the lane wide enough so that cars can safely
overtake cyclists is to our advantage. It is also desirable for cars to use any
part of that wide lane when there aren't any cyclists on the road. This acts to
clean the road, and also means that the entire road surface will be
maintained.

From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:11:34 -0500

"Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:

 MS> what I hate is our *overreliance* on cars.

I certainly can't disagree with you on that point. For most people in
the U.S., cycling and walking are not even considered as a possible
alternative to driving. A simple trip to the store, one block away, must
be done in a car. Store clerks automatically ask you such things as,
"Can I help you carry your groceries out to your car." When you tell
them that you arrived by bicycle, you might as well have said flying
saucer.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: rbc!al (Al Davis)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Reply-To: davis@ee.rochester.edu
Organization: Huh?
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 14:26:14 GMT

Gregory D. Surbeck writes:
>  GS> Going back to my comment about traveling on roads without
>  GS> shoulders:  I am not afraid to travel at 15 mph on a 45 mph
>  GS> road.  I consider it rude. When someone takes a rural highway,
>  GS> he planned on doing 45 mph. Then here is this cyclist doing
>  GS> 30 mph below the speed limit!

What is really rude is the motorists that insist on going 40 in a 50 who let  
long lines of cars build up behind them.  This can cause considerable delays  
and tension for those who are stuck behind.  I will never let traffic build up  
behind me regardless of what vehicle I am using.  It is your duty to let faster  
traffic pass.  It doesn't matter what type of vehicle you are using.  (Car,  
bicycle, RV, pickup-truck, logging truck, etc.)

I find it interesting that the slow-pokes are the often the first to complain  
about the bikes.

al.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:40:54
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1hnk4lINNalt@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> <1992Dec29.044236.16394@eng.umd.edu>
	<1992Dec29.044921.16484@eng.umd.edu> <C013qF.DI9@cs.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu's message of Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:13:27 GMT

In article <C013qF.DI9@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:

   gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
   >Terry's post a few days ago got my mind on the subject.
   >Does anyone want to share their cycling resolutions for the new year?
   >Does anyone want to report resolutions for 1992 that succeeded (like
   >the Century-a-Month challenge)?  That failed?

   Im planning on a double-century.       

I want to do my first century.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:11:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Gregory D. Surbeck (gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu) writes:

> My personal favorite solution:  planned, unmarked, wide right lanes.
> What's wrong with them (to be read with the same tone of voice as my
> what's wrong with bikeways question -- neutral)?

Automotorists tend to consider the space to the right of the centerline and
to the left of the shoulder to be theirs to use as they choose. If there is
no painted line at the right border of the motor portion of the travel
lane, an automotorist is likely to consume the entire space. A clear line 
delineates Good Driving from Bad Driving.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:12:51 GMT

> In article <19921221.071155.364@almaden.ibm.com> pershng@watson.ibm.com  
(John A. Pershing Jr.) writes:
[On Sundays in the Summer they close the Bronx River Parkway for the  
exclusive use of bicyclists. Its chaos.]

A simillar experience can be had on Sundays in San Francisco's Golden Gate  
Park. They also close La Canada road (runs down the peninsula below San  
Francisco along interstate 280) to cars one Sunday a month during the  
summer. I haven't ridden there though.

In article <1992Dec21.202018.28056@trintex.uucp> elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)  
writes:
> Welcome to the real world!  This is what a shared facility is about --
> cyclists and other wheeled things of all different skill levels.   
Remember,
> before you can learn to ride well, you have to learn how to ride.  I've
> seen senior citizens on their rusty 3-speeds on the Bronx River Parkway
> that I suspect would never ride bikes anywhere else.  And where else could
> a family with small kids go out for a group ride, but on a closed highway
> or a bike path?  I don't get onto a bikeway (or the Bronx River Parkway)
> with an expectation that I will be able to speed towards my destination.
> I go for the scenery and the smiling faces of the other users.
> 

Which is all fine and well but don't claim this has noticeable impact on  
bicycle transportation. The message I get from John Forester is that he runs  
into a lot of people who look at bike paths and "bicycle Sundays" and say  
"Look at all the bicycles and no cars. Isn't it great!" Where he looks at it  
and sees lots of people going nowhere slowly in relative danger and says  
"What a waste of time and money."

We don't close down roads for student drivers one Sunday a month. We let  
them learn in parking lots and put lots of energy into "driver's education."  
Simillar methods are effective for bicycling as a mode of transportation.

Personally, I have no trouble seeing what John Forester objects to in the  
postings from Ed Ravin and Michael Smith. They just really hate cars. This  
biases their idea of what is good for bicyclists. It doesn't piss me off but  
it probably would if I had been fighting political battles with such people  
for as long as Dr. Forester has.
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
From: wcf@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Club party ideas needed
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:46:05 -0500

This Year our bike club, The Florida Freewheelers, will be celebrating
twenty years of cycling in Central Florida. We are planning a party and
are looking for suggestions for bicycle related, indoor games/activities.
The party will be at night, in a large hall but otherwise we are open to all 
ideas from the sublime to bizzare.
					Thanks ... Chris
+===========================================================================+
	Chris Fooshee - University of Florida - CFREC - Apopka
			WCF@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
+===========================================================================+
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:31:25 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <2B3DCB1C.6106@news.service.uci.edu> iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias) writes:
>
>A 24t chainring for my MTB and a Performance long-sleeve jersey.
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	
>
>
	Mike,
		Which jersey and how do you like it?  Thanx
			Greg
>Mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 00:38:44 GMT

>[What bike gifts didja get?]

Got: booties, replacement chammy.

Gave: wind trainer, cyclocomputer/heart rate monitor, tandem.

	;-D on  ( To give is better than to lose )  Pardo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: sery@crunch.unm.edu (sery)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 01:51:23 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/lib/rn/organization

Bruce Hildenbrand writes:
>>Sery writes:
>>Obviously she was taking it to enhance her performance.  However, it wasn't a 
>>case of abuse since two Uptimes and two coffees is NOT very much caffeine
>>and it is not a banned substance in any case.
>
>Using caffeine at such a level that it shows up in the boby's blood system
>in abnormally high amounts(as determined by the UCI) is indeed illegal,
>so, in that light she was taking a banned substance.  This is indeed
>susbstance abuse.

What are two Uptimes worth in terms of cup of coffees?  Two, four, six?
Twelve cups is supposed to be roughly the limit.  So she wasn't even close
by any standard and yet she was "caught".  Abnormal is a word which doesn't
mean anything in this context!  For Janelle it was abnormal to drink the
equivalent of 8 cups.  I say either ban it or don't.  It's unfair otherwise.

>The fact that the caffeine apparently stayed in her body longer than other
>people does not, in my eyes, make the situation unfair.  If Ms. Parks is
>going to use a susbstance that is considered illegal in abnormally high
>quantities in the blood to enhance her performance, then SHE should do
>her homework and figure out what are the doses she can take and still
     ^^^^^^^^
>remain below the legal limit.  Plain and simple.

So you're saying as long as you're smart enough not to get caught its okay?

>>I drink quadruple espressos before tt's to enhance my performance.  I assume
>>that since I drink lots of coffee everyday and am fairly heavy I'm okay but
>>I really don't know.  So if my body assimilates it and I pass the test 
>>than I am not cheating. However, if I am the one-in-a-hundred that gets 
>>busted then I am considered to be a drug abuser.  It's that arbitrariness 
>>that makes it unfair.
>
>This is not arbitrary at all.  The rules state the acceptable levels.
>If you can't play by the rules, don`t play.

Acceptable, abnormal????  They are words when used in the context of rules
make automatically arbitrary.  

>>If she had just drunk coffee would you feel differently?  The implication that
>>I read into what you wrote is that you would.
>I would not feel any differently no matter how the caffeine was injested,
>then again I loathe coffee.

Them's fight'n words in these parts;-)

>ps - I love all these people taking caffeine before TT's.  The major
>physiological benefit of caffeine is to help the body speed up it's
>fatty acid metabolism mechanism, something which is only of benefit after
>1-2 hours of racing.  This would hardly seem appropriate for a
>55 minute or so effort.  Any anectdotal responses on how much faster
>caffeine makes you go in events >1 hour can be sent to /dev/null.

I agree!  It's so mild that I don't worry about the morality.  So why is a 
rule necessary then!?

Paul Sery
Albuquerque, NM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Cyling [sic] and Doping
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 08:25:53 GMT

In article <85855@ut-emx.uucp> kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram) writes:

>According to Edmund Burke (Cycling Healh and Physiology, p. 214), a study in
>the late 1970's found that cyclists who ingested 330 miligrams of caffeine one
>hour before exercising at 80% of their max aerobic capacity could pedal 19.5%
>onger than control subjects that didn't use caffeine.

These "studies" when examined invariably are about as 'scientific' as a crap
shoot. Two or three individuals without double blind testing cannot demonstrate
_anything_ that requires statistical analysis.

One thing is _certain_, _if_ 330 mg of caffeine caused a 20% increase in
endurance then a couple of espressos would have a measureable and _marked_
effect on _everyone_. The very idea that such a figure as 19.5% would
be bandied about is almost proof positive that the study is pure bunk.

>The fight is fair if we're both on caffeine, or if neither of us is.  WHAT'S
>THE DIFFERENCE?

In case you haven't been following the thread, caffeine is _legal_ already.
Apparently it's OK to tilt the playing field only somewhat.

>I say to you, if you are so terrified of racing without the advantage of 
>caffeine, I would suggest that you not race at all.
>
>But you are also missing the entire point of the
>noble side of athletic competition.

Yeh, we've all seen this nobility in the hockey rink.

>Your problem here is that you obviously value the money and the public
>admiration that comes from winning more than you do your own pride in a job
>well done.

Gee, when did you learn so much about me? Public admiration? What a schmuck!
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:35:23 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

The subject line says it all, the brand will most likely be
Specialized.

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing