HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Re: What is Sticky Hands (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:48:42 GMT

ninja@ecr.mu.oz.au (Jonathan_Piers HEARN) says:

>So what exactly does 'Sticky Hands' techniques consist of ?

Well there's Chi Sao the "sticky hands" exercise that develops the
ability, and the actuall "sticky hands" idea itself.

What it is, is by remaining in contact with the opponent,
or even coming in contact from blocking or hitting with the opponent, you
can read his intentions and tell what he is going to do.
It is very sensitive in nature, and you have to pick up the 
subtleties of the flow of Chi in your opponent.
Many of the techniques in Wing Chun form together to
look like a the hands or limbs are "stuck" to the opponent.
Hence it's name.  The action is very fast, and you don't just sit
there waiting to look at a move.  You train to feel weakness
in your opponents structure at a touch, or any other movement.

For an excellent article on "sticky hands" principles, and some
ok photographic presentations, pick up the April 1992 issue
of Inside Kung Fu, and read the article entitled "The Fighters
Edge--Developing Silent Talk".

And John, being that your in Australia, that's William Cheungs
territory (one of the premiere exponents of Wing Chun in the
world).  Take a look for his schools over there.  I know there's
a bunch.


Marty

Do
From: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Demo Review
Date: 17 Aug 1992 23:44:33 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Originator: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU

A while back I posted something about a demonstration with Wally Jay in 
it and a bunch of other people no one had ever heard of.

Well, I went.

Among the things I learned were a few demonstration DOs and DON'Ts:

  DO make sure the address on your flyers is the same as the location
  of the demonstration (they didn't figure this out until the day of the
  demo; to those people who wrote me for the address off the flyer, my 
  apologies--I was able to find the place only through luck and creativity).

  DON'T alternate "mat" arts with "non-mat" arts (especially in a 
  demonstration with over a dozen arts).

  DO know which people want mats and which don't (no less than three
  times mats were removed for someone who actually wanted them, or placed
  for someone who didn't).

  DON'T let people demonstrate knife defenses with real knives (Wally Jay
  literally came within an inch of losing a toe during a Shotokan demo).

The demo was rather interesting nevertheless.  It was the most afro-centric
gathering I've ever been to.  The sponsor was himself a Black Muslim, and the
demo was sort of a showcase of prominent African American martial artists
(and a few of the sponsor's martial arts buddies).

As for the actual demonstrations, the Doce Pares escrima was the big show
for me.  It was the only demo where the "attacker" made a credible attempt
to win.  Of course, the "attackee" (whose name escapes me) was the current
head of the system, and kicked major butt.  Surprisingly, the hardest falls
of the evening (which included jiujutsu, kempo, and aikido) came during the
escrima demo.  The moral of the story is if some old Filipino guy with a 
stick wants your wallet, give it to him.

I didn't find Wally Jay's "small-circle jiujutsu" as impressive as it had
been built up to be.  True, it allows a great deal of control with a small
amount of motion, but conversely, a small amount of slack would go a long
way toward neutralizing the techniques.  Perhaps it's just because I'm one
of those "rubber arms, sandbag body" students that it didn't seem like such
a big deal.

Oh, yeah, capoeira is too cool.

Finally, I was really getting tired of "stupid uke tricks" by the end of the
evening.  Defenses I never want to see again: against a wrist grab, against
a lapel grab, against a bear hug, against an overcommitted, poorly timed
reverse punch, against an overcommitted lunge with a knife.  Defenses I would
like to see at least once: against a jab, against a quick, tight, slashing 
knife attack, against a sweep, against a feint in combination.

Did I mention that capoeira is too cool?


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: 8 steps mantis
Keywords: ???
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:25:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

For those who are interested in looking for a new school or
have a trial for a new style, there is one school which I
will definitely recommend.  Fee is low and classes are
taught by the master himself, not his students.  It is the
8 steps mantis school in SF near to the sunset district.
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shao-Lin Temple news
Keywords: i'm glad someone is out there!
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:01:04 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug14.144649.26300@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.213928.24333@oracle.us.oracle.com> glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:
>
>>Guess one day when I become famous I can also get a lineage tablet
>>established. 
>>
>>
>	this, too, is fact.  anyone with a certain level of martial
>arts can do this.  it is a recognition of the temple, but has marginally
>little value as far as validating claims or skills that preceded the
>acknowledgement.  actually, very little value in validation of claims
>or skills afterwards, either.  more a simple acknowledgement of your
>existance.

Thanks for the clarification. I presume the small number of
such tablets presently in the Temple is due to a lack of interest
on the part of martial artists in having such things installed
on their behalf, no doubt because, as you say, they are of little
real value. Still, the tablet erected on behalf of Grandmaster
The', his predecessor Ie Chang Ming, and his predecessor
Su Kong Tai Djin of the Fukien Shao-Lin Temple serve a
sentimental purpose for us in reminding us where our system
came from. (I'm always concerned that posting information
that is of some significance to us may be irrelevant 
to people less interested in our system).
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shao-Lin Temple news
Keywords: i'm glad someone is out there!
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:24:15 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <71336@apple.Apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>Alternatively, perhaps my memory is faulty, and the tablet
>for a Japanese school is for the Shorinji Kempo organization.
>If so, don't they claim that their founder, So Doshin, was
>instructed by two different Shao-Lin masters? Of course,
>it could be that this claim is false, but it's hard for me to
>see how you would know this with any confidence. Perhaps
>the Shorinji Kempo organization has recently revealed that
>they were kidding all along? Or there is some evidence
>that So Doshin's stories were fictional?

Pardon me for responding to my own post, but someone just pointed
out to me that, in fact, there is pretty good reason to
think that So Doshin's stories were actually fabricated
(the reason being the outcome of a lawsuit in which the
Shorinji Kempo organization had to change its name to
avoid making fraudulent claims about Shaolin lineage.)

I stand corrected.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: kundaline & sinanju
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:59:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.134451.16743@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
}In article <1992Aug13.171705.27347@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>In article <1992Aug12.124724.29177@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
}>}In article <1992Aug10.195402.15617@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>}>
}>}>Two items:
}>}>1. The Book (by Barnes?) titled _The Kundalini Equation_.
}>}
}>}This book (by Steve Barnes) is weird but good.  The main character gets
}>}into a sort of "applied Chi-Kung" practice, which was originally developed
}>}long ago to turn volunteers into killing machines.  It affects him physically
}>}as well as mentally.  I liked the tension created by comparing "good" 
}>}martial arts teachers to cultists.  
}>
}>Actually, I bought the book over a year ago.  I was sorta hoping for
}>comments concerning the synthesis the main character devised, and what
}>was thought of his "traininng method".
}
}I am not sure how all the visualization exercises the guy did could extend
}to normal people.  Didn't he mention something about having an unusually
}vivid visual imagination?  

Yup.  Think it was compared to Voltaire...

}>}>2. The series (Murphy & Sapir, now ghostwritten) _The Destroyer_.
}>}
}>}Ah!  This is a serialized history of Sinanju.  It is absolutely accurate.
}>}The only fault I find is that it does not contain enough of Chiun's amazing
}>}poetry.  A look at the two greatest martial artists in history, and what
}>}MA's can do besides opening a dojo and teaching.  A true inspiration to all
}>}of us!
}>
}>Here, I was interested in comments on the idea of a "sun source" and the
}>training methods (this series is what introducted me to many of the martial
}>arts as I searched through factual literature of actual occurences that matched
}>the extraordinary things done.  Found most of them for the first 50 or so...)
}
}What kind of events did you find as a basis for the books?

Mostly early Chinese "masters", though some of the ninjutsu and aikido
matched.

}I have always been interested in a general "source" for martial arts, and in
}trying to figure out how old it might be.  For example, a lot of the "older"
}martial arts included both striking and grappling arts.  The newer ones tend
}to be striking styles.  Does this reflect in any way the greater availability
}and lethality of weapons in the last 2000 years or so?

Hmmmm.  Wonder if the same dating methodologies used in linguistics or
perhaps mitrochrondia ancestry or such may be useful.

Comments?
From: z_hilbornrs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: NO MORE REPLY ON Diff Between East...
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:46:26 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

I originally posted the Diff. between Eastern and Western thought.

Had I known how many people i'd offend or how many irrelevant tangents would be 
started then I would have and should have included a disclaimer.  That story is
told to beginning MA's to illustrate the point that you should learn to
recognize mastery without having it proven, and so you yourself do not go
around trying to prove you're a master.  Because MA's have a respect of
Japanese MA's and because people see old westerns and their attitudes, a
story uses stereotypical attitudes of these types of people to convey a
message.  It was not meant to generalize.  It was posted mainly for
entertainment, and most users saw that and made light of my errors.  For those
of you who were offended I'm sorry.  You can bet the next time I decide to post 
something a disclaimer will be included.  

--Scott Hilborn

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: 55beimle@sol.cs.wmich.edu (John Beimler)
Subject: Re: women, training, && violence
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:02:08 GMT

Here at Western Michigan University I would say (during the school year)
that the ratio in our judo club is 2 or 3 guys per woman.  I know this is
not the norm, but it is nice here.  One reason some women may stay away
from judo may be the contact also...

John Beimler
55beimle@sol.cs.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Re:  The Christian MA
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:23:21 GMT

snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) says:
Subject: The Christian MA

[good christian value(tm) stuff deleted]


blechh


I would say more but I'm to busy still laughing at Quayle and Baker.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Re: What is Sticky Hands (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:17:55 GMT

kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) says:


>Um, no offense to you personally Marty, but someone would do well to
>avoid William Cheung and his teachings.
>
>	- Kyle

Well, that's the usuall "I don't believe in Classical Wing Chun"
approach.  I'm under William Cheung's organization.  It's
(Classical Wing Chun) been proven, he did defeat Leung Ting
and a few other notable Wing Chun people in a challenge match,
they all signed a document attesting to this, which WAS published.
This was in the late 70's -early 80's.  Many people have forgotten
about it.  It's over with.  He, as are many others, are just interested
in bringing about a unity and common respect in the Wing Chun familly.
Let's just leave it at that before this turns into a big flame war
that neither person will win.  We're not William Cheung, or Leung Ting,
or any of the others.  It's between them.

(respectfully bows out)



>-- 
>+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
>|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
>| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
>| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |

Marty

Do
From: akif@sequent.com (Aki Fleshler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ken tori - Aikido
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:54:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug13.175405.10876
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <4494@news.duke.edu> ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley) writes:
>bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>..
>: >directed at the left side of my neck, I step forward with my left foot under
>:                                  ^^^^
>..
>: It seems to me that yoko_MEN_ is being incorrectly performed or named
>: here.  yokomen in Muso Shinden Ryu is _always_ to the temple, not to
>: the neck.
>
>interesting. in my Aikido dojo, despite calling the strike yokomen,
>we also strike to the neck, trying to hit at the point where the neck
>joins the shoulder, and then cutting on a diagonal to a point just
>above the opposite hip. at what angle do you perform yokomen?

Lately, Chiba Sensei of San Diego Aikikai has been calling these 
attacks "kesa-giri" or "kesa-uchi", whether delivered to head, 
neck, ribs, hips, knees ....  "Kesa", the diagonal collar of the kimono, 
indicates the angle of the cut/blow, rather than the point of entry/impact.  
Therefore, I think one motivation for his nomenclature is to overcome 
(surround? dissolve?) this ambiguity.

-- 
Aki Fleshler                                  * akif@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.                 * (503) 578-4570
15450 SW Koll Parkway, RHE2-775               * FAX (503) 578-7569
Beaverton OR 97006-6063                       *
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown)
Subject: Re: Thanks! for feet of DEATH !
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Psychology Dept. U.Q.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:16:50 GMT

>   In shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown) writes:
<stuff that a less wise (ie. dumb) Shane wrote deleted>

First, thanks heaps to all who have responded to my original 
request for info about Feet of DEATH !....ok, what have I
learned...
   I must kick more accurately, but with the ball of my foot....
   but then again with the shin..err...and I have to wear 
   protective padding ...or..umm...no, my partner wears the
   padding.. and I think I have to bring the foot in an arc
   parallel to the ground..errrr..no, at 45 degrees to get the ribs
   or the knees if i'm not a punchy-kicky type (optionally overstretched),
   and I can use herbal lotions as well !

AAAAAAAARRGGGGH !

Seriously, I realize that there is more than one solution to
the problem and I thank everyone for their posts/letters 8).

Next weeks project for self-improvement is the Gonads of DEATH !
Anyone point me to those Shaolin monk action videos ?
Ok...take rope..get rock...tie..etc etc. 
Updates next week 8) 

(o  ) (o  )      ( o ) ( o )      (  o) (  o)  ~ Shane Brown      ~
Munumunup, do do dododo, Munumunup do dododo,  ~ Opinion ....     ~
Munumunup, do do dododo, dododo, dododo,dododo,~ "Mine mine, all  ~
,do dodo do dododo (the Munumunup song, SSt)   ~  mine..Muhahaha" ~     
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ~_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-~
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sv6f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Steven  Velasquez)
Subject: Re: Movie Review:  Rapid Fire
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:19:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.062228.16053@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writ
es:
>Well, just got back from seeing the new Brandon Lee movie, Rapid Fire.
>I must say that I was not dissapointed.
>This marks a landstone in the young actor's career, as it is the
>first starring role of his career.  (Previous credits include
>the his appearence in TV's "Kung Fu: The Movie", as well as the
>Hong Kong produced movies "Legacy of Rage" and "Showdown in Little Tokyo".)
>
Actually Marty, you're wrong about this being Brandon's first starring
role.  He starred in "Laser Mission" with Debi Monahan and Ernest Borgnine
in 1990 (Turner Pictures, Inc.). It was (is) absolutely horrible, although
it sounds like his latest movie is better.

Steven Velasquez
University of Virginia
Dept. of Physics
Velas@virginia.edu
.
From: doug@lpf.umd.edu (does not exist)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: chinese broadswords for sale
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:11:25 GMT
Followup-To: doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


 	i have aquired some ching dynasty chinese broadswords.  they
are in various conditions, from needing to be cleaned up to needing
scabbard work.  there are two types and one is about 390 years old,
the others, about 370 years old (not exact dates but close enough,
based on Sifu Yim Tai Loi's authentication.)
	i would like to sell them 'as is' for ~$300.00 each, (the
assessed values) or if i totally restore them, at a higher price,
depending on the work i put into them.  the older one might go at a
slightly higher price, ~$325.00, plus work.
	of those that i have aquired, i would like to sell two or
three, or possibly a fourth.  those who are interested can e-mail me
at the addressess that bound in my notes.... *smile* or you can call
me during standard working hours (08:30 - 16:30) monday through friday,
on 301 405 5044, or at home on 301 927 0657.  leave a message concerning
swords, a name, and a date, as well as a way to contact you, in return.
	these are not only collector's items, but also quite usable in
practice or competition, and are well balanced.  for those who have to
worry about weight of the weapon in competition, they are well within 
the acceptable weight considerations of all competitions that i have
ever heard of.  they are marginally sharp, and *have* been used in actual
combat, but i can put a better edge on them if desired.  i wouldn't
recommend it for practice, and most competition, but for complete
restoration as a collector's display, it would be okay.
	there is a possibility that i may be aquiring several other
chinese and japanese blades, some older, and in various states.  if
interested, let me know... we can work it out.
	as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Help ! Need feet of DEATH !
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 AUG 92 09:07:38    


>In article cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher) writes:
>>Do a roundhouse kick with the hip turned over 45 deg, and then another
>>turned over 90 degrees.  The first will come near the elbow, and the second
>>should come in above it, even though they're both targeting the ribs 
>>somewhere.

Somewhere in the dark recesses in the back of my mind, my old 'traditional'
karate instructors from 20 years ago are frowning and saying 'See ?  I told you
not to do round kick with your instep !'   I hate it when the old guys are 
right about something.  :-)

IMO, one of the reasons that getting nailed elbow-to-foot is so common is that
the opening under the elbow is best taken advantage of at that 45 degree
angle, the same as when a boxer digs a shovel hook around the elbow
into the ribs.  If you hit at 90 degrees, you're less likely to catch the
point of the elbow, but also less likely to hit the ribs cleanly, if they
use their elbows well defensively.   

Maybe a compromise is to adapt the Thai method (is that where it comes from ?)
of kicking with the shin at an upward angle just under the elbow.  I saw
someone kick like that a while back and tried it, and it seems very powerful.
Still hurts, if you meet bone, but you can condition the shins (somewhat), or 
pad them, at least in practice.  

								kind regards,

								todd
From: pitaro@joker.sanders.lockheed.com (Michael Pitaro)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:54:27 GMT
Reply-To: pitaro@rocket.sanders.com
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
In-reply-to: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com's message of 14 Aug 92 19:34:04 GMT


  From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)

  Experienced Aikidoka tend to have a posture and basic grounding skills
  that makes standing throws against them extremely difficult.  Probably not 
  what would be considered good practice in Judo, though.  I remember one 
  good competitive judoka trying for several minutes unsuccessfully
  in our dojo to throw several of the senior Aikido people.  He
  sometimes threw them if he switched to a tomoe or other sac throw,
  but they effectively heavy-armed him against hip throws and
  footsweeps because of their posture and balance skills.
  They didn't even try to throw the Judoka.  I suspect they would have
  failed at least 9 out of 10 times if they had taken the offensive
  against this guy.  He was pretty good at standing counters.

That's not surprising.  The same thing happens when judoka play each
other.  It is extremely hard to throw someone with alot of experience
if he is doing nothing but defending.  That's why there are stalling
penalties in competition.  It is more interesting to see what happens
when both competitors are trying to throw.
--
Michael Pitaro                              Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
                                            PO Box 868, MER24-1583C
Signal Processing Center of Technology      Nashua, NH 03061-0868
pitaro@rocket.sanders.com                   603/885-9794 (Voice)
(or) ...!uunet!rocket!pitaro                603/885-0631 (FAX)