From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Mattel says "Math is tough."
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:06:41 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Oct5.223841.29140@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel) writes:
>In article <5840@tuegate.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.145314.2836@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
>>mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel) writes:
>>>The problem with Barbie saying that math is hard is that this doll will
>>>be not be given to college-aged women but to young girls.
>>
>>I get it.  To give a girl a doll that says "X is hard"  "Y is tough" or
>>anything like that, will brainwash the little brat and condemn her to a
>>lifetime of simpering weakness.  Presumably little boys who want to be
>>president or astronaut or fireman or whatever are not daunted by the 
>>possibility that it may require some effort.
>>But then, little boys don't get barbie dolls.  Maybe that is the problem.
>
>     That is part of the problem.  Boys get toys that tell them that
>they can do things.  Dolls for boys are astronauts and firemen.  Boys
>are surrounded by messages that tell them that the world is theirs for
>the taking.  (I am deliberately ignoring the plight of ethnic minorities
>who are usually in a different situation altogether, male or female.)
>Besides, can you even imagine Hasbro programming a G.I. Joe doll to say
>"Math is hard"?  It would just seem a silly thing for Joe to say.
>Doesn't that tell you something in itself?

     It seems a silly thing for Barbie to say, but most of the 
     talking toys I have heard seem silly.

>     Girls on the other hand are constantly bombarded by subtle messages
>that tell them that anything other than baking cookies is going to be
>hard.  This doll is just one of many vehicles for such messages.  It is
>very difficult to get rid of some of the other negative messages to which
>young women are subjected, but we may be able to get rid of this doll
>(or at least to have the manufacturer reprogram it).

     Is the assertion that a subject is 'hard' a negative one?  I *can*
     imagine a GI Joe saying 'this mountain-climbing is tough!'
     Or is this simply the result of your innate prejudice that if
     we tell 'the more delicate sex' that something is tough, that
     this will constitute sufficient aversion to prevent them from
     pursuing certain careers?

     I seem to remember the Army doing pretty well with the 'Be all you
     can be' campaign that emphasized the rigor and toughness of the
     training and job.

>     To rephrase my last paragraph, if this doll were the only thing
>around that suggested specifically to young girls that math was a
>special obstacle to their future plans, then it wouldn't matter.

     We haven't yet established that this was a suggestion that
     Math is anything more than 'tough', which it certainly is
     for large numbers of us.

>Unfortunately, it isn't.  If you don't believe that, then explain why
>women select themselves out of higher mathematics as early as high
>school (i.e. before it really gets hard).  A typical university-bound
>woman is, in my experience, quite capable of handling any mathematics
>required for a successful career in the natural sciences or engineering.
>Why then do such women disqualify themselves from such careers so early?
>The only answer that makes sense to me is that somehow, somewhere along
>the way, they start to believe that they ultimately would not be
>successful in mathematically oriented careers.  (I have a lot of
>anecdotal evidence to back this up.  I realize that this does not
>constitute the basis for a proper scientific statement, so I won't
>write any of it here.  There is however a study I read some time ago
>which confirmed my suspicion that the anti-selection operating here
>has almost nothing to do with ability as measured by, for example,
>classroom performance to that point and a good deal to do with
>self-image.  I should start to keep an index of such things because I
>can never remember where I read them...)  Having your early toys tell
>you that you can expect to have trouble in math is sure to reinforce
>whatever negative self-perceptions you might be accumulating.

     Who knows and who can tell?   I suspect that early toys preparing
     you for the self-discipline necessary to succeed in anything is
     probably not altogether bad.  

     Besides, I suspect that the influence of Barbie is a bit overrated.

                               dale bass
-- 
C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926
Newsgroups: sci.math