HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks)
Subject: Re: Responisbility to provide care...
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:01:14 GMT


Ken, re your BTW, an ambulance company we contract with was 
recently sued in a neighboring community for abandonment, because
they were responding code 3 to a nursing home and passed by a
MVA without stopping. The community felt the car should have stopped
and rendered aid to the MVA and called a second car for the nursing
home call, since there were obvious severe injuries at the MVA. 
The outcome of the trial, however, was that the ambulance company
did the right thing legally, and could have been charged with
abandonment by the nursing home who originated the first call, 
AND that had that charge been made it would have stood, since
they were en route to the call when they saw the MVA. 

No value judgements - that's what happened!
Honest!

-- 
       Ed Shanks      af905@yfn.ysu.edu
       Sr. Firefighter (and lots of other titles, as well!)
       Boardman Fire Dept.    Boardman, Ohio
       "It's not just an adventure, its a job!"
From: deglop@huey.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters
Date: 7 Oct 1992 02:05:44 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: huey.eeap.cwru.edu

In article <01GPMNGRTN3M934XFV@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET> writes:

>Up here in Rochester, some of the hospitals get a BP on incoming patients
>during thier wait in triage woth an auto BP cuff.  In one instance, I was

>this story is, but it certainly is food for thought.  Remeber, saometimes
>theonly thing you can rely on is yourself and what you detect.  And even that

Standard operating procedure for an auto BP or pulse system _should_ include
taking at least one manual reading on the patient before using the auto
system, and comparing results to make sure your system is working on that
patient.  Hopefully you know your equipment well enough that you'll know
if it always reports one reading, something is wrong...  

Unfortunatly, it's a bit harder to confirm the readings of your pulse
oximeter or EKG by hand.  Far from impossible -- if the pulse-ox says 98%,
but the patient is cyanotic and unresponsive, the problem is perhaps in
the pulse-ox... if the EKG shows random noise while connected to your
patient, yet the patient is sitting there talking with you...  On the other
hand, if the pulse-ox says 95% instead of a true 80% or so, you'll have 
a hard time telling.  Is the patient in fine v-fib or asystole?  Hard to
tell if your monitor is unreliable or maybe just blurry.

The moral -- read the instructions; know your equipment.  Know how it
fails; know when it fails.  

-- 
         Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
            -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:20:45 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      This damn quint thing.

        To sum it up in case any of you missed it,
It was quoted to me last night at a training session as...
A five function apparatus.  It contains...
Hose for water delivery.
A fire pump.  (Ours is 1250gpm)
An aerial ladder.  (Ours: 105 foot.)
Rescue equiptment.

And the fifth escapes me.  I wrote it up before, but it was kind of confusing.
So I checked on it.  This stuff is all true.  I think the fifth is...

Lighting and electric.

I'll check on this and make sure for you.

                                                        FireMAN
From: matthews@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU ((Matt Sullivan))
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Fire Reg's
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:23:38 GMT
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Looking for a good laugh this morning, I opened my University's _Guide
to Residence Hall Living_. In the illegal to have section, one of the
things that it lists is milk crates. When you ask an RA to tell you why
milk crates are prohibited, you'll get the standard "Fire Hazard"
answer. Now my question. How are milk crates any more of a fire hazard
than, say, my mostly plastic radio is. I assume they are afraid of toxic
smoke, but wouldn't almost all of the things in a typical room produce
toxic smoke? Is Northeastern smarter than I, or are they just getting
pressure from the Dairy Lobby to not allow milk crates in rooms (since
99% of them are stolen).


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Matt Sullivan  Northeastern University 1996     |
Matthews@ds5000.dac.northeastern.edu            |
MWS@maine.maine.edu   (Vacations Only)          |
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-|
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Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 11:34:14 EST
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From:         "(Kenneth P. Lager Jr.)" <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      WEMT & CPR

Is it true that a WEMT can also pronounce a paiient whom CPR is being
performed on 'dead'?  In a wilderness situation wher help is days away and
there are no Dr.'s or coroners available; isn't that the training WEMT's
are supposed to have.  And is it LEGAL?!?!

                                                Ken Lager
                                        Fire/Rescue, National Cave Rescue
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:43:29 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Quint

        Sorry about the editor here, guys.  It miught give me some trouble...

        From what I was told at our Districte  Training Class, a quint is/..

A fire apparatus with five major features.  It performs/has...
Hose for water delivery,
A pump.
An ariel (SP!  Sorry!) ladder.
Rescue equiptment.
A water tank.

Thus it has five major features, and is called a quint.  Honest!!!


                PS - That's true!!!
                                                        FireMAN

        Just my $.002 worth!              "KAAAYYYY!"  (LS)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Kenneth A. Kirchoff       --     Henrietta Fire District
     CPU 1293                          Larchmont Mamaroneck Volunteer Amb.
     25 Andrews Memorial Drive          Town of Mamaroneck Vol. Fire Dept.
     KAK6279@ISC.RIT.EDU                 Certified Lifeguard

        "Time is an invaluable commodity, which I am unwilling to waste,
          but I sell it to RIT for $4.51 an hour!" (Damn college jobs!)
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 08:21:43 EDT
From: <HALTEMAN@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters

About a year ago I posted a similar request.  The resopnses were all
very positive.  Until I encountered the following case this past summer,
I felt very confident using a pulse oximeter.

The Case:

   We were called for a possible MI. UOA found pt. sitting in chair
under own support, eyes closed and only responsive to loud voice. Pt.
told us he was swimming in small backyard pool and felt some chest
pressure.  No radiation to arms,legs or neck.  No cardiac history,
but similar episode few weeks earlier. Plans to see pers. phys.
"real soon now".  Pulse about 80, resp. 16, lungs clear, no pedal edema,
palpable radial pulse, but unable to obtain BP by auscultation.  We
started O2 by nasal at 6 lpm, loaded onto cot and into rig.  In rig,
attached pulse oximeter finger probe, and cardiac monitor.  Monitor
showed NSR and p.o. showed SaO2 to be 98%, pulse of 80 confirmed by
monitor and p.o. Still had difficulty obtaining BP, but systolic
estimated to be 105 mmHg. Pt. in now AOx4, good color, normal resps.

We start for the hospital (8 min ride) suddenly the SaO2 starts falling
to 90 then 85, pulse responds to 100, to 120.  We switch O2 to NRB at
15 lpm.  Cardiac monitor shows NO DISCERNABLE change in RHYTHM or RATE.
Patient condition is unchanged, still pink, AOx4, normal resp.  We
checked the probe position, all was fine.  This same episode happened
twice more.  During one, we ran a strip and saw no change in the
cardiac rate.

Obviously, one should trust the signs from the patient more than the
mechanical devices, but now I am not so trusting of the p.o.


Just my $.005,


Bill Halteman, EMT - I.
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks)
Subject: Re: off-duty response
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:44:43 GMT


Daniel Burstein writes: 
>Amazingly enough, an EMS organization can REFUSE to take a call

  Private ambulance companies often have contracts to respond in
a given community, and the contract usually contains a time limit
for response. In Boardman we contract with three privates, on a
daily rotating basis corresponding to shift changes on the Fire
Dept. They have a ten-minute response time allowed, or we have 
the right to revoke their contract. They can still operate in
Boardman if privately called, but our dispatcher will not call
them. 
Anyway, they routinely "dump" calls between each other to maintain
the time limit. If ABC Medic Co. is on today and we have an EMS
call on the west side, and if their nearest car is on the east
side of our eastern neighboring community, they'll look for a
closer car from another company and "dump" the call to the 
competition. It works both ways, though, so nobody loses any
business in the long run, and the citizens come out to the good
because they don't have to wait unreasonable times for ambulances.

-- 
       Ed Shanks      af905@yfn.ysu.edu
       Sr. Firefighter (and lots of other titles, as well!)
       Boardman Fire Dept.    Boardman, Ohio
       "It's not just an adventure, its a job!"
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:48:51 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Liability

        From what I remember in class, in New York State, you are only
required to stop and give aid if your car has stickers, or you are wearing
something that states that you are an EMT or higher.  I think that this
is kind of a vauge explanation, however.  Does anyone know the CORRECT
NYS protocol to this???

                                                FireMAN
From: bguest@ateam.ems.cdc.com (Brandon Guest)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Origin of the term 'quint'
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:52:22 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

I have been in the fire service now for about 17 years with a 30 person
volunteer department.  For many years now I have always assumed the
term 'quint' referred to a specific BRAND of aerial apparatus.  Not
having a building over two stories in our area we don't have a lot of
experience with ladders or their associated terminology.

Last night I was reading an article in Fire Chief talking about the
pros and cons of 'quints'.  It suddenly dawned on me that they were not
talking about a specific brand of apparatus but, instead, a type.  I
guess my question boils down to:

What does the term 'quint' mean?  Where did it originate? and how do
'quints' differ from other types of aerial apparatus such as tiller
trucks, ladder towers or pipes, etc.?  Is one of the principle
characteristics the inclusion of a pump and on-board water supply in
addition to the ladder?

This question is so basic, I am almost embarrased to ask.

Thanks in Advance!

Brandon
-- 
H. Brandon Guest                | bguest@ems.cdc.com
Empros Systems International    | (A division of Something)
2300 Berkshire Lane North       | Voice (612) 553-4529
Plymouth, MN 55441-3694         | Fax   (612) 553-4018
From: PLAWS@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Negligent Dispatcher in MA?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 22:57:23 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Anyone in Mass. have info on a Lexington (?) FD Fire Alarm Operator that didn't
dispatch EMS when he should have and "caused" a woman's death???

================================================================================
Peter Laws              |"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|   pcl@engr.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| look like the '50s"--D. Hopper  |plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: bwh1248@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Brian W. Heath)
Subject: Deaf FF/EMT
Reply-To: bwh1248@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:40:19 GMT

"CATFISH"

I think it's great you've been able to accomplish all that you have.  But I'm
just curious, what is the extent of your hearing loss (dB loss).

Thanks
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:31:30 EST
From:         Y01S000 <Y01S@SETONMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CISD?

Helena,

Out of curiousity what is a "totally useless go-fer"?

David

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
David J. Adinaro                     BITNET: y01s@setonmus
Assistant Director of Admissions   INTERNET: adinaro@setonvm.shu.edu
Seton Hall University                 VOICE: (201) 761-9332
South Orange, NJ 07079                  FAX: (201) 761-9452
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: jpp@philabs.philips.com (Joseph Page)
Subject: MDs on the scene
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:12:29 GMT

I saw a business card the other day that had something similar to the
following printed on it:

"This patient is being treated by EMTs who are certified by the State of New
York to perform emergency medical care and transportation to the appropriate
hospital.  These EMTs work under set protocols and under the direction of
Medical Control who takes responsibility for their actions. If you'd like to
you can take over care and responsibility for this patient"

I know that this is not 100%, but that's the idea.  I've only had one or two
run ins with MDs in the field and both times after a few minutes they were
happy to let us continue care as we saw fit.

If anybody has seen these cards could you please E-Mail the actual statement
to me, Thanks

Capt. Joe Page EMT-D
Vista Fire Department
South Salem, New York
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:49:00 -0400
From:         "Virgil W. Smaltz" <DAC013@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: MDs on the scene

I think the business card is a great idea.  Most physicians don't realize
that for them to take over it requires a ride into the hospital.  The most
important thing is to not lose your cool when dealing with an MD.  They are
human and are known to make mistakes.  Explain the situation calmly and
quickly and do your thing.

Virgil W. Smaltz, REMT-P
4th year medical student
Marshall University School of Medicine
From: Kirk.Smith@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Kirk Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re:      Re: CISD?
Date: 26 Sep 92 20:23:47 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

This brings up an interesting point.  Do many departments have chaplins?  I've
found a real lacking in responders that are comfortable talking to someone
about their crisis.  Calling a "crisis worker" is sometimes a problem, as
it can indicate to the "victim" that they have a problem.  Our EMS Agency
requires paramedics in its training program to go through a 6 hour training
with Hospice, which I found to be VERY beneficial.  I never really knew what
to say to people when their spouse had just died, and now I feel MUCH better
qualified to help them out.  You can make a HUGE difference.  I'm not a
religious man, so I'm not a big fan of cramming the "good book" down
people's throat, and thus was skeptical about the idea of a chaplin, but
have found the few that I've dealt with to be VERY appropriate in
helping out the family, irregardless of religious beliefs.

Does anyone else do this type of training (Hospice, etc?)?  If not, I'd
highly recommend it.  The call isn't over when you respond for a man
down, and find someone pulseless and apenic w/no-code orders.  Sure, the
spouse was expecting it.  But it's still a big deal, and one of the
greatest feelings I've had as a caregiver was the ability to sit down
and talk to the spouse about the death and try to make them feel 
as comfortable as possible.

-Kirk J. Smith, EMT-P

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'quint'
Date: 1 Oct 1992 00:19:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bguest@ateam.ems.cdc.com (Brandon Guest) says:

>What does the term 'quint' mean?  Where did it originate? and how do

Look at the last post for what sounds like a decent definition; the
etymology is from 'quintuple', something with five parts or five of
a kind.

-- 
        Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
           -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
              jue@epaibm.rtpnc.epa.gov / JUE@NCCIBM1.BITNET
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:13:08 EDT
From:         PJ Geraghty <JX655C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Certification vs. Licensure

I have just gotten home from a class callem "EMS and the health care system."
The intent of this class (as I see it) was to see how EMS relates to the
rest of the health care system, what the rest of the HCS think of EMS, and
ideas about the future relationships between the two.

Sadly, several people (out of the ten or so in the class) have turned it into
almost a single-issue gathering each time: the "utter unfairness" of paramedics
being (in most states) certified rather than licensed.  It boils down to a
question of respect, according to the other people in my class.  They think
that the other people in the HCS look down on paramedics because we are the
only group to be certified by people at higher levels of care (e.g., MD's are
licensed by MD's, RN's and other nurses by RN's, but EMT-P's are *certified*
by MD's).

Obviously, I have a different opinion.  I honestly don't care whether I'm
certified, licensed, blessed, or whatever.  I was trained as a paramedic and
I do what I'm trained to do, ignoring (for the most part) the interference
and/or superiority (what little I see) from other members of the HCS.  I'm
getting a little tired of the whole argument, but it is a thread which pervades
the entire degree program here, I fear.

My question to the vast community of EMT-P's reading this on your computer
screens:  what are your thoughts?  Do you want to be licensed?  Why?  Are you
content with being certified?  Why?

I'll try to keep a running tally on the votes either way and post a summary
at some point, along with any interesting points I come across.

_________________________________________________________________________
|PJ Geraghty, FF2/NR/MDEMT-P          | (insert opinion disclaimer here)|
|5020 Battery Lane                    |**********CUBS in '92!!**********|
|Bethesda, MD 20814        (SnailMail)|         (OK, maybe '93)         |
|301-652-0077/301-409-0648 (Telephone)|                                 |
|JX655C@GWUVM.GWU.EDU       (InterNet)| Support your local EMS; the life|
|CG071@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU (FreeNet)|  we save could someday be yours!|
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:45:10 EDT
From:         AISARMSTRONG%IST%VMI@IST.VMI.EDU
Subject:      Fire Department Graphics

Does anyone know if there is a ftp site where I can get fire department
related graphics for Word Perfect?

Eddie Armstrong (aisarmstrong%ist%vmi@ist.vmi.edu)
member of Rockbridge Baths Volunteer Fire Department
Rockbridge Baths, Virginia
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:49:17 -0400
From:         jpn1@CRUX2.CIT.CORNELL.EDU
Subject:      Re: CPR with a toilet plunger

There is a brief blurb in about this thing in the most recent Emergency magazine
(the one all aobut elederly patients).  Apparently a child successfully
performed cpr on his father with a toilet plunger, and there is currently
research going on using a cpr device that works much like a plunger.

The idea is that in regular cpr, there is active compression of the chest, but
only passive expansion.  The negitive pressure created by the plunger device
would create and active expansion of the chest as well.  It is supposed to
increase effectiveness by a large percentagee...I don''t havbe the articel
with me, but if i remember correctly, they have been resarching on animals,
and have prototype devices... there is even a picture of one.

ummm..
that's all,
gotta run to  a meeting
later
justin

               _____        |Justin 'Ja' Norfleet    h2m@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
              /    /        |Mechanical Engineering    j_norfleet@cornell.edu
             /    /         |Cornell University      DISCLAIMER:My opinions are.
    ____    /    / _______  |
   /   /   /    / /  ___  | |NYS EMS CFR             FF Co. 9 Ithaca FD
  /   /___/    / /  /  /  | |'Don't you think that's totally spam?  It's
 /            / /  /__/   | | lubricated! Well, I'm phasing.'     -Calvin
 \___________/  \______/\_\ |'Marvy. Fab. Far out.'               -Calvin's Dad
From: RSWANSO@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Earphones
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:39:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92280.123908RSWANSO
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Does anyone know where earphone similar to those of the Secret Service can be
obtained?  I am in need of a very low profile earphone and I know the Secret
Service earphones are of high quality and work well.  Thanks for the
assistance.

----Reid Swanson               E-mail:  RSwanso@American.edu