HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Subject: Re: Asimov
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 07:19:42 GMT


In a previous article, pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) says:
> My
> readings lead me to believe that before Asimov, most stories about
> robots saw them as lumbering mechanoids. Asimov saw them as thinking
> beings.

Well, yes.  But robots really *are* lumbering mechanoids.  And they aren't
likely to become "thinking beings" any time soon.

-- PTD --
-- 
                      ______    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a
Palmer T. Davis       \ \/ /     dead lion.  But it is better still to be a
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>     \/\/      live lion.  And usually easier."  -- RAH
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Subject: Re: Asimov
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-5934]: spop.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:48:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.203952.13264@julian.uwo.ca>, crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes:
|> Asimov never had a clue about how robots worked, and wasn't even
|> original about it.  For a really thoughtful treatment of artificial
|> intelligence, check out _Heart of the Comet_ by Benford and Brin, _Queen
|> of Angels_ by Bear, _True Names and Other Tales_ and _The Peace War_ by
|> Vinge, 2001 by Clarke.  But please stop lauding Asimov's trashy, if
|> prodigious, robot stories.
|> 
|> Crispin, now closing his bunker hatch :-)
|> -----

   Not a flame, but who are these other people you talk about ? Clarke
 is the only name I recognize. I was reading 'I,Robot' before 1960. My
 readings lead me to believe that before Asimov, most stories about
 robots saw them as lumbering mechanoids. Asimov saw them as thinking
 beings. Of course, the Gernsbacks were before my time, so I might have
 missed a story that did treat them as something other than as a
 mechanical Frankenstein or as a metal creature remotely controlled.

-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
From: cet1@cl.cam.ac.uk (C.E. Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:46:42 GMT
Reply-To: cet1@cl.cam.ac.uk (C.E. Thompson)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <1992Apr10.174057.20708@unix.brighton.ac.uk>,
 rjb12@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Browning;f110or89;[05306) writes:
|> 
|> I am annoyed at the media here in Britain: I can't remember seeing anything
|> on television about Mr. Asimov's death; it seems to have been obliterated
|> by election coverage, and I think that's very wrong. Isaac Asimov was the
|> man who gave birth to the robot concept and the Three Laws of Robotics;
|> he was the man who changed the public's attitude of science fiction from 
|> contemptuous to admiring.

In Britain, at any rate, I rather doubt that last. Arthur Clarke or
John Wyndham would seem much more likely candidates.

Not that I mean any disrespect to the memory of Dr Asimov. Apart from
his science fiction, many of us owe a great debt to him for his 
popular writings on science.

Chris Thompson
JANET:    cet1@uk.ac.cam.phx
Internet: cet1@phx.cam.ac.uk
From: winston@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Early Robots (was re: Asimov)
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:55:47 GMT
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab

Folks --

There were definitely sympathetic robots in fiction prior to Asimov's
publication of "Strange Playfellow."  Some examples:

(I'm at work and my books are at home, so I'm doing this from my
admittedly-fallible memory.  Forgive any errors.)

A story published in the late 1930s by "Eando" Binder, called "I, Robot,"
reprinted as "Adam Link, Robot" after Asimov's short story collection copped
the name.  The story was first person from the POV of the robot in question,
and covered his being unjustly accused of murdering his creator.

Lester Del Rey's "Helen O'Loy," a Pygmalion and Galatea story involving a very
attractive female robot.  (Not sure of the dates, but this is also from the
thirties.)

I'm drawing a blank on the name right now, but Neil R. Jameson wrote, I think,
a whole series about the adventures of one human with a bunch of mechanical
people called Zoromes, I think starting in the mid-30s.  

Reaching back even further, don't forget Tik-Tok, the Mechanical Man of Oz.

Also on this general topic, I don't think it's fair to argue that X was an
influence on Y based solely on X having occurred first, a tactic used earlier
in this discussion, eg approximately "all those books with good renditions of
AI and robotics came after Asimov, so he must have influenced them."


-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL750.BITNET or  WINSTON@SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory, Stanford, California 415/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================
From: stefan@meltdown.chi.il.us (Stefan Micheal Sheffield)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Congenial (was Re: DucKon I)
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:45:39 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <star.03ww@meltdown.chi.il.us>, star@meltdown.chi.il.us (Team Star
Leader) writes:
>Don't forget the Team Star GOH : Steven Brust   <Big grin>
the above geust can be bribed
(laphroig 15yr is apropriate).
AZRA-GOTH
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: king_p@cyclone.cs.odu.edu (Paul King)
Subject: Re: Asimov lost? Get him a map.
Organization: Illuminati S-F Club: Old Dominion University 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:46:51 GMT

In article <+y8thz-@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
>In article <83857@bu.edu>, rycshaw@csa.bu.edu (Ray Chow) writes:
>|> In article <1992Apr6.193524.5537@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D. Hurley) writes:
>|> Well, Larry Niven is still alive and kicking.  (Not doing anything further
> 
> No disrespect to Niven intended, but he hardly qualifies as one of the 
>"old masters". Niven grew up reading Asimov.

  Didn't we all?  To observe his passing, our S-F club said a few words at our
meeting, and several of us have pulled out a few old favorites which he wrote.

 What I wanted to say was,
    Farewell, and thanks.
From: trent@termnet.chi.il.us (Brian Issleb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:52:07 GMT
Organization: Temple of Pong BBS

In article <1992Apr13.071942.16008@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu
(Palmer T. Davis) writes:
>
>In a previous article, pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) says:
>> My
>> readings lead me to believe that before Asimov, most stories about
>> robots saw them as lumbering mechanoids. Asimov saw them as thinking
>> beings.
>
>Well, yes.  But robots really *are* lumbering mechanoids.  And they aren't
>likely to become "thinking beings" any time soon.
>
>-- PTD --
>-- 
>                      ______    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a
>Palmer T. Davis       \ \/ /     dead lion.  But it is better still to be a
><ptd2@po.cwru.edu>     \/\/      live lion.  And usually easier."  -- RAH


Yes, but that's now.  If you remember, his stories are set in the future. 
Besides, its are goal to have thinking robots, not lumbering machines.

                
 
                     =====================================
                     =                                   =
                     =  "...my left arm's come off too.  =
                     =  Hell, how am I going to operate  =
                     =  my digital watch now?"           =
                     =                                   =
                     =               -Arthur Dent        =
                     =====================================
 
                                       ______________
                                         King Trent
                                             -
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Asimov lost? Get him a map.
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:08:35 GMT

In article <83857@bu.edu>, rycshaw@csa.bu.edu (Ray Chow) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr6.193524.5537@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D. Hurley) writes:
|> >
|> >WHO's left?\
|> 
|> Well, Larry Niven is still alive and kicking.  (Not doing anything further
|> with Known Space, but still puttering about with a few new books in the
|> past couple of years.)
 
 No disrespect to Niven intended, but he hardly qualifies as one of the 
"old masters". Niven grew up reading Asimov.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 00:32:52 GMT
Organization: Bill 'n' Opus for Prez

In article <1992Apr13.170613.28326@julian.uwo.ca> crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes:
>
>Given the complete lack of similarity of treatment, I would not presume
>that Asimov's robots influenced these other writers, at least not any
>more than the invention of Cheese Whiz.  Yes, these books all emerged
>well after Asimov's; I chose to cite only those books that I have read,
>and I haven't done a lot of reading in that era.  My Analog/Astounding
>collection only goes back to about 1960 :-(.  However, the passage that
>I quoted from the SF Encyclopedia was quite explicit in stating that
>Asimov's robot tales emerged in the midst of a bunch of stories about
>friendly, altruistic, lovable 'bots.  He was just following a trend.

Given my past reading, I'd hesitate to rely on any reference work
purporting to disseminate information on SF or fandom.

As for influencing, I would presume that they were, in some fashion,
influenced by Asimov's work -- by second-hand reading, if nothing else.
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Mothers are inventors by necessity
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: king_p@cyclone.cs.odu.edu (Paul King)
Subject: Old Dominion S-F Club
Summary: Announcing our new club
Organization: Illuminati Science Fiction Club, Old Dominion University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:09:32 GMT


                             The Illuminati Science Fiction Club

      I and another Paul decided that while we can only make it to a few cons occasionally,
   there is no reason we couldn't find the fannish people around our campus, and put together
   a bit of a club. So we did. Now we are up to about thirty members. We have a good gaming
   group or three going now. We show animation every friday. We will be showing the Star Wars
   trilogy on the ceiling of our planetarium this friday. We had a field trip to MadiConI (thanks
   guys). We will be attending DisClave and CastleCon (Yeah!) em masse. We may, we hope, be putting
   together a fanzine [any speculative fiction matter, fantasy, space, cyberpunk, horror, whatever.
   Just remember we are a student organization and are limited in ,err, explicitness somewhat by
   that. We are accepting submissions. 5000 words or less, shorter materiel preferred. Contact us
   for more details before submitting. We are open to very amatuer stuff].

      Now we are looking for more. Of Course. I would like to hear from people in similar organizations
   with ideas for Things To Do.  We have a couple of autoduellists and would like to duel another group.
   Same for battletech. We are looking for a few good field trips, other than cons and local movies.
   Anyone know a good guest speaker? And how to contact them? We are new at this stuff and could use
   any advice.


   Contacts include

     king_p@cs.odu.edu
     kossler@cs.odu.edu
 
     Science Fiction Club
     Old Dominion University
     Webb Center Hampton Blvd
     Hampton VA 23508
     attn:Paul King

     or
     Stop by our friday meeting,
     Old dominion university
     Webb center
     Rm 212
     Fridays 2:00-6:00 at least, usually more like 10:00
     contact me for better directions as needed.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: ketter@mdd.comm.mot.com (Cindy Ketterling)
Subject: Magicon Info Wanted 
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:34:54 GMT

Please, please, PLEASE can somebody forward me the dates
for MagiCon in Orlando.  I need to know right away so that
I can buy my plane tickets ...

Thanks in advance.

- Cindy Ketterling  (ketter@mdd.comm.mot.com) 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Subject: Re: Asimov
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:12:46 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-23147]: spop.navo.navy.mil

In article <1992Apr13.071942.16008@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
|> 
|> In a previous article, pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) says:
|> > My
|> > readings lead me to believe that before Asimov, most stories about
|> > robots saw them as lumbering mechanoids. Asimov saw them as thinking
|> > beings.
|> 
|> Well, yes.  But robots really *are* lumbering mechanoids.  And they aren't
|> likely to become "thinking beings" any time soon.
|> 
|> -- PTD --

   Ah, but I can dream can't I ???

     I know they are lumbering at the moment, I have seen several
  documentaries about them on PBS { educational telly... }.

     I remember one program talking about 'some early day' experiments.
  I forget the exact year. This little mechanical's only program was to
  find wall sockets, figure out what was the correct plug insert direction,
  and plug in for a recharge. Well, one evening someone left the door to
  the lab open and it wandered out into the hall. A security guard blew
  it away when it wouldn't halt and identify itself. I believe it was
  at a university campus. They talked to part of the design team, so
  it wasn't 'folklore.' Later, JimP.

-- 
   pierce@navo.navy.mil Jim Pierce
   jmpierce%usmcp6.bitnet@vm.tcs.tulane.edu

                   'now where did I put that dictionary ...' me :-)
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: 12 Apr 92 09:29:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr12.092933.22891
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-22454]: spop.navo.navy.mil

In article <1992Apr10.174057.20708@unix.brighton.ac.uk>, rjb12@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Browning;f110or89;[05306) writes:
|> Isaac Asimov's death is a hard thing for me to grasp; it was he (often
|> accompanied by Arthur Clarke) that held my hand during my first forays
|> into science fiction. His books continue to enchant me, as they have done
|> ever since my early school years.
|> 
|> I am annoyed at the media here in Britain: I can't remember seeing anything
|> on television about Mr. Asimov's death; it seems to have been obliterated
|> by election coverage, and I think that's very wrong. Isaac Asimov was the
|> man who gave birth to the robot concept and the Three Laws of Robotics;
|> he was the man who changed the public's attitude of science fiction from 
|> contemptuous to admiring.
|> 
|> Something should be done to honour him.
|> 
|> In sadness,
|> 
|> Richard.
|> 

    CNN did a long segment on him Friday { Apr. 10. }.
-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
From: aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 04:37:57 GMT
Organization: Bill 'n' Opus for Prez

In article <1992Apr12.203952.13264@julian.uwo.ca> crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan) writes:
>
>Asimov never had a clue about how robots worked, and wasn't even
>original about it.  For a really thoughtful treatment of artificial
>intelligence, check out _Heart of the Comet_ by Benford and Brin, _Queen
>of Angels_ by Bear, _True Names and Other Tales_ and _The Peace War_ by
>Vinge, 2001 by Clarke.  But please stop lauding Asimov's trashy, if
>prodigious, robot stories.

Hmmmmm.....all those stories you recommend come way *after* Asimov's
seminal stories, so presumably were influenced in some way by them.
Care to say anything about Asimov's contemporaries?
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Mothers are inventors by necessity
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Subject: Re: balticon info?
Originator: jon@cyclone
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:49:46 GMT


In article <1992Apr12.042609.21336@access.digex.com>, zbang@access.digex.com (Carl P. Zwanzig) writes:
> For other info, try calling the Baltimore Science Fiction Society at
> 401-JOE-BSFS. 

That should read  4 1 0  rather than  4 0 1  for the area code.  Maryland
recently added a new one in addition to the already existing "301"

So for B-Con info call (410)JOE-BSFS

-- 

<jon@mitre.org>
-- 

<jon@mitre.org>
From: trent@termnet.chi.il.us (Brian Issleb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:49:14 GMT
Organization: Temple of Pong BBS

In article <1992Apr12.203952.13264@julian.uwo.ca>, crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin
Cowan) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.174057.20708@unix.brighton.ac.uk>, rjb12@unix.brighton.ac
>.uk (Browning;f110or89;[05306) writes:
>> Isaac Asimov was the
>> man who gave birth to the robot concept and the Three Laws of Robotics;
>> ...
>> Something should be done to honour him.
>
>This puzzles me.  Asimov's "three laws" are the most quoted by the
>media, and least relevant concepts on computers that SF has ever come up
>with.  They bear no resemblance to how AI research is done, and offer no
>insight.  A quote from the SF Encyclopedia:
>
>	Isaac Asimov claims to have invented the famous "Three Laws of
>	Robotics" in response to a "Frankenstein syndrome"
>	characteristic of early sf attitudes to the robot, but this
>	assumption does not seem to have been general, or even very
>	evident.
>
>	In point of fact, Asimov's first robot story "Strange
>	Playfellow" appeared amitd a glut of stories featuring lovable
>	and altruistic robots.
>
>Asimov never had a clue about how robots worked, and wasn't even
>original about it.  For a really thoughtful treatment of artificial
>intelligence, check out _Heart of the Comet_ by Benford and Brin, _Queen
>of Angels_ by Bear, _True Names and Other Tales_ and _The Peace War_ by
>Vinge, 2001 by Clarke.  But please stop lauding Asimov's trashy, if
>prodigious, robot stories.
>
>Crispin, now closing his bunker hatch :-)
>-----
>Crispin Cowan, CS grad student, University of Western Ontario
>Phyz-mail:  Middlesex College, MC28-C, N6A 5B7
>E-mail:     crispin@csd.uwo.ca		Voice:  519-661-3342 
>"If you want an operating system that is full of vitality and has a
>great future, use OS/2."  --Andy Tanenbaum


I am sure you are entitled to your opinions, as foolish as they may be. 
Though you may not like his robot stories, I don't see how you can call them
"trashy".  And just because Asimov's robots were not modled off the artificial
intelligence of his time does not mean that he new nothing of robots.  He was
a visionary.

                
 
                     =====================================
                     =                                   =
                     =  "...my left arm's come off too.  =
                     =  Hell, how am I going to operate  =
                     =  my digital watch now?"           =
                     =                                   =
                     =               -Arthur Dent        =
                     =====================================
 
                                       ______________
                                         King Trent
                                             -
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: tsm@access.digex.com (The Secret Man)
Subject: Re: balticon info?
Organization: The Quiet Room
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:03:57 GMT

zbang@access.digex.com (Carl P. Zwanzig) writes:
[wrt Balticon]
>
>GoH's are the past 10 year's (and only) Compton Crook Award winners, Donald
>Kingsbury, Chris Rowley, David Palmer, Sheila Finch, Thomas Thomas, Chris
>Hinz, Elizabeth Moon, Josepha Sherman, Michael Flynn, and the not-yet-
>announced 1992 winner.    the award is for a first novel.
>

Palmer apparently won't make it, but this year's winner (according to the
BEAST, the fanzine of the Baltimore SF Society) is Carol Severance.

>At the door admission is us$35.
>

One day membership will be $10 for Friday or Sunday, but $25 for Saturday,
because the Masquerade has moved to Saturday, where the majority of the
programming has always lived.  Friday benefits from...

>Major events include a FOLK (not filk) concert on friday by Clam Chowder,
>(to benifit a local fan who was badly hunt in an auto accident). 

He should have had his spear and magic HELmet...  especially if he was going
to be badly hunted.  You can't take chances with people who hunt badly...
esPECially if their weapon of choice is automobiles.

-- 
The Secret Man
tsm@digex.com
"Accept no substitutes."
From: pjj@cs.man.ac.uk (Pete Jinks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Asimov
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:27:16 GMT

pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) says:
>My readings lead me to believe that before Asimov, most stories about
>robots saw them as lumbering mechanoids. Asimov saw them as thinking beings.

I believe that before Asimov & his 3 laws, robots were seen as
badly-controlled monsters that could run amok at any moment ("there are some
things that mankind was not meant to know/do") - a basically anti-science
point of view.

After, the interest came from seeing how a rational set of instructions
could be distorted on encountering unexpected circumstances, and how the
instructions could be corrected - a much more realistic view of how science
operates & how potentially dangerous things can be controlled - isn't this
what programmers, engineers, doctors, etc. are doing every day?
From: rjb12@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Browning;f110or89;[05306)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Asimov
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:40:57 GMT
Organization: Brighton Polytechnic, UK

Isaac Asimov's death is a hard thing for me to grasp; it was he (often
accompanied by Arthur Clarke) that held my hand during my first forays
into science fiction. His books continue to enchant me, as they have done
ever since my early school years.

I am annoyed at the media here in Britain: I can't remember seeing anything
on television about Mr. Asimov's death; it seems to have been obliterated
by election coverage, and I think that's very wrong. Isaac Asimov was the
man who gave birth to the robot concept and the Three Laws of Robotics;
he was the man who changed the public's attitude of science fiction from 
contemptuous to admiring.

Something should be done to honour him.

In sadness,

Richard.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rich Browning (rjb12@bton.unix)   *  The Three Laws of Robotics 
Department of Computer Science    *   ... a design for humankind.      
Brighton Polytechnic              *       
****************************************************************************
		Isaac Asimov: May you rest in peace.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom