HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:35:51 GMT
	<1992Aug12.113218.9958@walter.cray.com>
Organization: Columbia University

To those whose hot buttons have been pushed by Mr. Northcutt's
posting, I would ask that you refrain from excessive flaming on this
topic and let the thread slip quietly away.  This was very much like
one of Mr.  Khan's postings, which cause a big splash at first because
of their religious intolerance, but which then are quickly covered by
calm, still water.  Please let the water put out the flames.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown)
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: University of Queensland. Oz.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:43:29 GMT

In article <willimsa.714323348@unix1.tcd.ie>, willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin
Williams) wrote:
> 
> I saw a photo of Bush in some martial arts seminar.
> 
> He was wearing a gi with a black belt.
> 
> I thought a black belt was something that was EARNED after years of sweat and 
> toil.  Guess I was wrong.  This must mean that anyone can wear it.

  Dude, are you kidding? Here we have a man with the ability to destroy
  entire nations without raising a sweat. I can't think of any other
  MAs who can match this feat, apart from those chosen few Greenoch
  masters whose secret death Kata number #9 (seldom seen) causes
  the sun to nova...ooops, It's not secret now..... uh oh...
AAAARFFFGGGGHH...(secret death Kata number #6, long-distance cardiac  
implosion).

Ecckkky Thoomp !
   
(o  ) (o  )      ( o ) ( o )      (  o) (  o) ----------------------~ 
 ...AND KIDS, FEEL FREE       Shane's opinions: Guaranteed worthless~ 
 TO TRY THIS AT HOME!!        or you pay DOUBLE !                   ~     
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_~ 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Help ! Need feet of DEATH !
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 17 AUG 92 11:26:33    


(Dakin Burdick) writes...
>In shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown) writes:
>>   Why do I ask ? Because I am sick of losing my voice screaming
>>when I let rip with a roundhouse in sparring, only to feel the
>>top of my foot connect with the point of my partners elbow. AAARRGG !
> 

I've seen some schools where they had everyone wear elbow pads in kick-sparring
to address this problem from a slightly different angle.   You can still feel 
the mistake, but you don't get as badly bruised.   So you learn to kick
properly to an open target, or you learn to stop kicking.

If you simply deaden and scar up the foot and leg, you don't feel the mistakes, 
and you still keep kicking to the elbow, you'll eventually succeed
in breaking your foot against people's elbows, which isn't what you want,
unless you're a Muay Thai prizefighter or something crazy like that.  :-)

							todd
							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:32:41 GMT

In article <BsxLLs.2Dq@cs.dal.ca> marsup@cs.dal.ca (Mario Ouellet) writes:
>Religion is a personal thing. It should not be used as a vehicule to 
>promote one's ideas.
>
>Look at the world around you. A high percentage of the current world
>problems have religion as their root. 
>

Truly sorry.  I just can't resist.  I'm sure someone beat me to it...

>Applying Christian doctrine to marital arts, specifically, and interpreting
                                ~~~~~~~
>it literally, in general, really has no place in our so-called "modern"
>world.

Interesting little slip there. (smirk) ;)

Quick opinion.  Stephen's post didn't belong in this group.   He should
know better.  That's all.
-- 

-Ben
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: "Can't be thrown"
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:22:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3478
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug19.012115.1540@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
>	One last point, I did a little Judo about the same time a started
>Aikido, [...] even experienced Judoka could not throw me if I didn't
>play along, this may only mean I had a natural talent for keeping my balance,

	If you ask me it means you didn't play with very competent judo guys,
or that they were taking it very easy on you because you were just starting.
Unless maybe you weigh 400 pounds...

>p.s. The comparative skill of the opponents is in the final analysis what 
>counts, interestingly Aikido people in general do not like compare M.arts
>only particular practicioners.

	Aikido has certain gaping holes.  For one thing, they don't study
the case where your opponent is in actual full-body contact, as in a 
judo technique.  They never ever use their feet for anything except standing
and walking.  They seem convinced that they can softly roll out of everything.
Other arts have these kinds of blind spots; but right now I'm comparing aikido
to judo.
									wr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books (was Re: Tai Chi)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:06:17 GMT
Organization: Network Systems Corporation

In article <osborn.714006007@dragon> osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn) writes:
>
>Maybe it's time for a list of bad books on MA...

Please don't.  Articles over 65K break some news systems.

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Keywords: Wing chun kung fu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:53:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.181749.3511@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> guest@jaws1.austin.ibm.com () writes:
>are there any practitioners of wing chun(I believe 
>that's how it's spelled) style kung fu out there?

	Well, you have one of the few, the proud right here ;-).

>know how effective you feel this to be as a fighting
>art?( as opposed to  tai chi(sp?) which from what I've
>read here in the past few weeks seems to be more of
>a meditative pursuit ) 

	I have taken Karate, had some experience with TKD, and now I'm taking
Wing Chun.  I feel that it is greatly superior than Karate or TKD, and I'm
very happy with it.  It's most important factor is its street practicality.  
This is something that Karate, TKD, Aikido, Judo, etc. could not give me.  
This is just my opinion, though.

	Obviously I feel that Wing Chun is an effective fighting art.  I have
never seen Tai Chi, so I can't really comment other than to say that since
Tai Chi is an internal art, fighting skills are more likely to take awhile to
appear in the short term (ie less than 5 years).

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Awww, rats...
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:23:49 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <3466@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>	Personally, I squish cockroaches.  In fact, one of the nice things
>about rats is that they eat cockroaches.  Anything that eats cockroaches
>is OK in my book...  I wonder if Lauren is vegetarian?


  Actually, there might be some positive ethical merit to squishing roaches
(the same may not be true for rats -- I don't know).  The argument, in
brief, goes like this:  If you don't squish the roach, it may live to
produce more roaches, which will make more, and so on until the roach
population is big enough to warrant calling in an exterminater to zap them
with nasty health-threatening and environment-wrecking chemicals.  But not
all the roaches will die, in all probability.  Those that survive will have
a higher resistence to the pesticides than their forebears, and they'll pass
this on to their descendants, etc.  So squishing the roach may have, in the
long run, better ethical repercussions than not.  On a consequentialist
ethic, then, the right thing to do is to squish the roach.
  Still, since I doubt that such considerations motivated the rat-kicking
incident, I think I must side with Ms. Radner on this one.

  Now can we get back to talking about MA?


--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: Shao-Lin Temple news
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:39:28 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Many years ago, there was a Japanese guy who went to visit Shaolin.
And he saw some pictures on the wall.  Being inspired by the pictures
he went back to Japan and founded the Japanese Shaolin school and
there are a lot of students.  He re-visited Shaolin after many years
and got a lineage tablet established though he didn't learn from any
Shaolin master.  This is recorded by the Chinese government inside
the Shaolin advisetisement.
Guess one day when I become famous I can also get a lineage tablet
established.
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Demonstration AUG 22
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:33:27 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Should you be in the F-burg VA area next Sat, the doj* will be
presenting a demo which (weather permitting) will include breaking,
weapons, tumbling.  Time 1300, place Breezewood shop ctr.  E-mail
if you would be coming by and need directions.  

?? For anyone who puts on such things, do you allow speed breaks?
If so, how do you protect the crowd?  I have observed the the 
breaker rarely knows the angle the board/brick will be flying except
for trivial breaks like forefist.
===================================================================
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Yokomenuchi vs Hook-punch (Aikido vs. 'the hook')
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:51:15 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Aug20.145058.25949@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>You're describing some goon lurching around swinging their arms like a baboon,
>not a technician leading with long hooks, or even swings.  Long hooks are not 
>that different from straight punches, as far as Aikido counters are 

So, is this similar perhaps to a ridgehand?

(At the risk of giving away all my secrets, if any of you get in a fight
with me, just use ridgehands. Can't see 'em, can't stop 'em. I'd be dead
meat)

oh...;^)

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Kyusho Jutsu - Vital Point strikes.
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:42:01 +0000



A little while back in this news group there was a thread about
vital point strikes and several people in the know took the view
that it would be irresponsible to put details of the techniques onto
a public news group such as this. Vince Morris has a very good argument
in favour of giving out this information.


He reports a conversation between him and Steve Hyland (A very good
instructor)...


-------------
"I mad the point to him that I considered the question carefully and
only after much thought did I come to the conclusion that mature
karateka not only could be taught to make sense of the kata. Not to do
so would be to insult their intelligence and question their character.


He asked me if I thought there was an element of hypocrisy in some
quarters, with some instructors maintaining that it was too dangerous,
then going to the dojo to teach their students how to deliver skull-
smashing mawashi-geris?


We discussed the matter at length, and then on the way home, I happened
to buy an American monthly martial art magazine, and what did I find
inside? A complete colour photo section detailing graphically the best
ways of slicing an opponent's neck open with a large knife!


So much for our concern for the teaching of techniques which need a lot
of years of training to make work properly, when anyone with no training
can pick up a magazine and be instructed in the art of, and I quote:
"Powerful slashes to an opponet's throat". And how to; "Thrust his knife
into attackers midsection"


Makes you think doesn't it?"


----------  From Traditional Karate Magazine August 92 ---------


I must say that I think this argument is quite a powerful one although
it could be argued that just because someone else is begin irresponsible
that is no reason for us to be. However, in the short time that I
have been reading this news group, it has become clear to me that the
majority of people here are responsible martial artists - For what
its worth I think that a discussion of the techniques of Kyusho Jutsu
would be entirely appropriate here.


My knowledge in this area is still limited and so before I start posting
details here I would like to gather your oppinions as to whether this is
the appropriate place to discuss these issues. In any case I would like
to enter into email discussions with anybody with any interest in this
area.




Bill Burgar.
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Xai Ji
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:09:23 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

From daemon Sat Aug 15 13:20:13 1992
Return-Path: <bj7006269%ntuvax.dnet@ntu>
To: "exudms@exu.ericsson.se"%ntuix.dnet@ntu
Subject: RE: re: Shao-lin Temple news
From: bj7006269%ntuvax.dnet@ntu Jian Ke (Swordsman) writes:

>What you mentioned above is not Wu Shu but Xa Ji.  It looks like
>martial arts but it is not.  It is mainly used by opera singers to perform
>battle scene of an opera.  It looks good but is not really a martial arts.

Now I think I know what you mean by "Xa Ji". I can't give an actual translation of the meaning, but  Xa Ji is a second class performance (stage or street) different than that of Opera. Xa Ji can refer to a Circus performance, Dancing like fan or scarf dance, Puppetiers, Street Actors, etc. Skilled performers, literally "Performance" or "Show". These people are not necassarily martial artist.

 I wouldn't tend to think that an Opera charactor like "Kwon" wielding a Kwon Dau in a battle scene for the Royal Peking Opera could be classified as "Xa Ji".
I don't know.
I know that movie companies employee Opera, Acrobats, and Xa Ji people to do a lot of stunts in Kung Fu movies, but they are not Martial Artist.

Thankx  "Jian Ke", Joey Zou and all

and Fo, I'm not in Sweden, this is TEXAS.

Zai Jien
/New Dave

							

/-------------------------------------------------------\  																 	  		  				   																															    |  |  EXU/S/D		~<>~	"Patience, the essential|			      										 			  												 		 		 				F1066 RCHN  EXUDMS		 quality of man"        |			|	*My opinions are not that of my employer*													\-------------------------------------------------------/
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seeing Ki, Aikido
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:19:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Jennifer Gates writes:

>I like this description of Bob Nadaeu's teaching style... I have
>found him to be quite wordy while his Aikido is very impressive. I
>think if you don't get too hung up on the specific words he uses,
>you can see a thread that he is trying to describe....

The transcript of his class in the last chapter of Richard Heckler's
book "Aikido and the New Warrior" illustrates this very well.  Nadeau
uses words in a non-conventional way, and tries to convey experiences
that are not directly describable in words, except perhaps to someone
who's already experienced what he's talking about.

What I've read and seen also seems to imply that Nadeau sees Aikido as
one of an endless number of paths by which one can experience a kind
of truth about life.  Perhaps this accounts for his students not being
too strong in the canonical forms.

>Please don't take any of this literally. I guess another way of
>saying this is that he is clearly on to something, it just isn't
>always aparent what it is...

Despite this, does he succeed in teaching what he's trying to teach?

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
From: doug@celia.UUCP (Doug Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:34:59 GMT
Reply-To: celia!doug@usc.edu (Doug Nichols)
Distribution: na
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <1992Aug13.063150.16590@nevada.edu> taltos@nevada.edu (dml) writes:
>
>  Is this the appropriate newsgroup for fencing? If not, where?

It's always been a MA to me, but I'm biased. Any feelings to the contrary?
I'd think we've got enough room here. Someone posted a proposal for a
fencing specific newsgroup, but I don't know whatever happened to it.

Doug
From: chang@assb01
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: re: Shaolin Temple news.
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:40:12 GMT
Reply-To: @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01

New Dave makes some remarks about Shaolin Temple arts, wu shu and kung fu

        'Tis true that wu shu became the official "reformed" (they like
this word over there) art, but somebody realized the mistake.  Nowadays
the Shaolin Temple is China's kung fu and wu shu center, yes they do teach
wushu, they have this rather large training center for up (or is it down)
the road.  If you can see the touring monks (I dunno if they are touring
sweden, I think that's where New Dave is from) you can see that they
are doing stuff besides acrobatics.


        Here's something that some monks (those who specialize in it) can
do that is definitely not wushu.  There's a skill they can pull logs and 
lift rocks with their, <warning painful to male readers> testicles.  The
martial benefit of this traing is render that area invulnerable to attack.
(Ow, I'm still in pain).

        This is not something I want to see competitions in.

        Fo
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MA vs National Geographic
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:10:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: pogo.13404
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <BtAFKI.Gs4@cs.dal.ca> marsup@cs.dal.ca (Mario Ouellet) writes:
>
>Howver, this IS rec.martial-arts and unless someone starts analyzing the
>kangooroo's front kick may I suggest that this discussion be moved to

They have an extremely wimpy front kick but how the little buggers
use their tail for foot sweeping is another matter.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar)
Subject: Re: Hips in aikido
Keywords: wristlocks
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:10:55 GMT

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

>	Yes, BUT :-) they don't use their hips as a fulcrum the way we
>do in judo.  I'm talking about actually rolling or pulling uke over the
>hip.  [snip...]

Take this with a grain of salt (my experience in Aikido is not extensive :-).
The koshinage I'm used to closely resembles a kokyu-ho (sp?) or breath throw
except that the hips get in uke's way.  This means uke is already off balance
and falling forward when suddenly s/he has to go over me.  I've had instructors
drive their hips into me when executing this throw (and I've been winded as a
result once or twice -- or worse if you think of "hips under").  Just because
I am extending away from uke doesn't mean I can't move towards uke at the same
time.  (BUT this is not the same as pulling uke over, since the technique
doesn't work if s/he's not already off balance :-).

>	Here's a question:  Your opponent enters strongly so that the left
>side of his chest is touching the right side of yours.  Your hips are parallel
>and may also be touching.  Your posture and balance remain strong, centered,
>and unbroken.  Do you feel safe?  Why or why not?  

This is a matter of proper distance and timing.  If I am strong and centered, 
why did I let the attacker get this close?  Surely, I could have stopped him
sooner (extenuating circumstances? 8-o :-).  If I am the attacker, why move in
this close if the opponent is still strong and centered?  If our chests are
touching, it would be hard to generate any power short of just body checking
wouldn't it?  (Don't know.  Are there Judo moves like this?)

(That was a lot of salt... :-).

Neil

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: women, training, && violence
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:58:51 GMT

Well, I just got back from vacation, and while I was out in California
I was introduced to Fukuda-sensei, who is currently the highest ranked
woman judoka in the world.  She started Judo in 1934, after Jigoro
Kano (a friend of the family) told her that he was going to open
a women's dojo (this was at the 50th anniversary ceremony of the
Kodokan).  I've seen stats of the number of female black belts in Judo
in the late 1930s (although my room is a mess and I can't find them
right now) and there were only 6 female black belts in the world, 
compared to something like 6,000 male black belts.  So the ratio 
has gotten better over the years.  

As to why women don't go to the dojo, I think macho attitudes still
play a role, but not as blatantly as they once did.  Few men say
"women are weak and can't be martial artists" (although one of my
Korean instructors said just that).  More simply practice with the
women as they would with men, and since the women are usually much
smaller than male partners, they take more damage.  No-one likes 
getting injured every night.

I'd say other reasons include:

1.  Socialization and the need for women to appear feminine.
2.  Less inspiration from upper ranks (since most are male, female
    martial artists often wonder why;  especially bad in a dojo where
    there are no female black belts).
3.  Overemphasis on upper-body strength by male instructors (and
    possibly underemphasis on flexibility).

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts