From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Japanese Constellations (summary)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:25:01 GMT


While my previous message didn't get much response on the
net, I did recieve a lot of mail on the subject.  My thanks 
to everybody who responded.  I'll make a follow-up post
with my comments.

-steve

------------

From RSHIROMA@drew.drew.edu Tue Dec 29 21:11:27 1992

Six stars in Sagittarius form Nanto Rokusei, I believe.

>I assume that most of the astrology stuff is garbage,
>unrelated to actual Japanese astrology.  If this is
>not true, please tell me.

You might look for Chinese astrology since traditional Japanese idea 
about things going on the sky is all borrowed from China.


I assume that Gento and Gosha are stars, considering a Chinese myth 
about the dating of Altair and Vega on July 7th.  I might be wrong, 
but the name is like following:

		Japanese	Chinese
Arcturus	Hikoboshi	Kengyuusei
Vega		Orihime		Shokujosei

Probably the original Chinese pronunciations are different; putting 
Tanabata aside, I can safely guess that Gento and Gosha are not 
constellations but stars like Kengyuu and Shokujo.

There might be a translation list about stars and constellations 
somewhere, and creating it sounds interesting if there's no such table.

BTW, they use western concept of constellations now in Japan.  They 
call stars in Katakana-English, but names of constellations are 
mostly translated.  eg. Iteza = Sagittarius.

Topics about stars makes me feel like talking about Saint Seiya :)

From RSHIROMA@drew.drew.edu Wed Dec 30 00:35:18 1992
Subject: Mistake!  ha ha

		Japanese	Chinese
Altair		Hikoboshi	Kengyuusei
Vega		Orihime		Shokujosei

Arcturus is too far from Vega.  It cannot enjoy annual datings with 
Vega across the Milky Way :)

--------------------

From z91005@kgupyr.kwansei.ac.jp Wed Dec 30 01:30:52 1992
>
>I need help in translating the names of constellations
>in Hokuto no Ken.  I know that hokuto == The Big Dipper.

Nope.  The Big Dipper is "Hokuto Shichi-sei."
"to" here simply means "big".  Hokuto is "something big from north".

>I need to know what nanto ("southern dipper") is.  I

So, this is "something big from south".

Remember the story is FICTION.


Atsu

--------------------

From RSHIROMA@drew.drew.edu Wed Dec 30 16:17:01 1992

I don't have a Kanwa Jiten (kanji dictionary) in front 
of me.  MAYBE 'to' can mean big, since it's also a unit of 
volume measurement similar to gallon, but I personally 
think 'to' means dipper.

-------------------

From tak@Vesta.Physics.UIowa.Edu Wed Dec 30 16:35:14 1992

Your memory actually helped me remember what the 'nanto'
was.  More common name is nanto-roku-sei, since there are
six stars in the system, and it is actually a part of the
constellation sagittarius.   Six stars are a part of the
commonly called 'teapot' of this constellation,

              *
     *     *
  *     *        
   *

seen from the northern semisphere.
Hope this helps.

Tak Sakurai
tak@vesta.physics.uiowa.edu

--------------------

From isc30176@nusunix2.nus.sg Wed Dec 30 22:47:54 1992

Japanese astrology corresponds to Chinese astrology, ie, there are some
differences with the grouping of star clusters wrt western astrology.
Grab any Chinese/Japanese astrology book and you'll find that there are
only 4 major constellation (tiger, dragon, stalk, kirin(?)) that are
placed on the NSEW directions.
It was years ago that I read about these astrology stuffs, but I do
remember there was a mentioning about the Big Dipper, Orion, Southern
Cross, Scorpio etc in Chinese astrology.  Perhaps because there are so
distinct.  If you're really interested in this classification of stars,
I'll dig out my books again.  mail me.
--
CHEN JiaTyan

I'm at home now... found one constellation (Chinese) on the south that
looks like a dipper (Small Dipper in Chinese)... my book is in black &
white... and consist of 7 stars.  It unfortunately has no corresponding
English name.  The occidental constellation in this region is the
Chamaeleon.

-----------------

From nasato@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu Thu Dec 31 11:19:54 1992
     Since you probably got the idea from me, I shall try
to clarify it. Actually a literal translation of Hokuto is
Northern Style. Nanto literally translates as Southern Style.
The Southern Cross is their symbol.

-----------------

From isc30176@nusunix2.nus.sg Tue Jan  5 07:47:13 1993

> >> Two people have told me that "Nanto" is Sagittarius, but I'm not
> >> that is correct.  The problem is that the manga says Nanto has six 
> >> stars, but later says that one of the "stars" is the Southern Cross.
> >> Sagittarius isn't near the Southern Cross; 
> No, but the picture they show is a dipper, kind of like:
>         *
> 
>           *
> 
>        *
>   *
> 
>  *
>      *

It does form part of Sagittarius, but Sagittarius is 5hours away from the
Southern Cross.  Whereas the cluster the Little Dipper)Ch) belongs to 
is 2.5hours away.  Look at the Chameleon(sp?) again, I believe you can 
plot your own dipper(s) with these stars, the spacings are about right, too.
I give up trying to confuse you. 8-)

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From: sekii@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Takashi Sekii)

"Nanto" is a part of Sagittarius, though I don't know if it contains a red star.
It sure is formed by six stars; its full name is "Nan-to-Roku-sei"
(South-Dipper-Six-Star).