HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:01:19 GMT

pstinson@pbs.org writes:

>In article <1007@vk2bea.UUCP>, michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann) writes:
> 
>> If an event happens on the moon (say a meteor strikes the surface), what
>> do we record as the date that it occurs? Not Houston time I bet.
>> 

>We seem to be heading towards a lunar based calendar.
>  One lunar "day" = 4 weeks on Earth (about equal to 1 Earth month)
>  One lunar year = 13 lunar days = 52 Earth weeks (with a little bit left over)

>In the future, events taking place on the moon will be recorded by the people
>living on the moon using whatever calendar and time system they have devised to
>meet their local needs.  The people on Earth may note the day that an event
>happened on the moon (or at least the day that they became aware of that event)
>but they are not likely to be that interested in knowing the time of impact
>down to the minute and second.  They will let the people on the moon handle it
>any way they want to.

	I believe universal time is the standard for such things, and when very
accurate and precise measurements of duration are required there are more 
complex ways of measuring time that are far to complicated for most of us to
bother with.  Since "local time" and time zones will be pretty pointless on the
Moon, my guess is that visitors and inhabitants will be using Earth calanders
and universal time for a while yet.

-- 
	Josh Hopkins       j-hopkins@uiuc.edu, or jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

		"A goal is a dream taken seriously."	-Uncle Walt.
From: razeh@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Robert Allan Zeh)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: National Space Plane
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:50:09 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

chris@valley.jpl.nasa.gov (Christopher Demke - FSE Sun SFValley - 818-905-0200) writes:

>  What is the expected payload capacity of the X-30 (if it ever gets
>built)?  I was under the impression that it is far less than a Space
>Shuttle.  I think our best bet is with the DC-X, DC-Y, etc.  Hopefully
>McDonnell/Douglas can keep their head above water long enough to finish
>the project...

The pilot. If we are lucky, the pilot might get to bring along a
toothbrush, but probably not. Floss is out of the question.

Robert Zeh
From: U59757@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Tethered Satellite
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:21:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92232.092111U59757
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

On the last STS mission (Atlantis, I believe), a satellite was carried into
orbit. This satellite was on a long tether, which was dragged through the
earth's atmosphere in order to generate electricity. Was this mission
successful in doing this? Please post answers in NETNEWS.
Thanks a lot!
                               Michael Pacold
                               UIC Computer Center <U59757>
                               UIC Academic Data Network
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Manifest [from Ken Hollis]
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:17:32 GMT

sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney) writes:

[refering to the shuttle manifest and visit to Mir]

>Around 2 years? Who got bumped ? Or was this flight added to the Manifest? 
>Can we bend/borrow/hack hardware and plan a USEFUL visit within 24 months? 
>I suppose planning is already on track for 3-4 months.

	I read that NASA is examining the Buran to Mir docking adapter to see
if it could be used, and while I didn't hear anything conclusive they seemed
fairly optimistic.

>And when does the Russian visitor fly? 

	Before we pay them a vist - in fall of '93 if I recall.

-- 
	Josh Hopkins       j-hopkins@uiuc.edu, or jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

		"A goal is a dream taken seriously."	-Uncle Walt.
From: mjensen@herman.gem.valpo.edu (Michael Jensen)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Strange circle-like curves on shuttle map
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:28:04 GMT
Distribution: world

In article <1992Aug7.213920.19357@Csli.Stanford.EDU>, cortex@csli.stanford.edu (John Eisenberg) writes:
|> I was watching NASA television last night and I noticed
|> circle-like curves on the globe that surround what may be
|> tracking stations or emergency landing sites.  These curves
|> have strange indentations and so forth.  Does anyone know 
|> what they are and why they look as they do?
|> 
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> John.


	These "circles" on the map are usualy designating ground tracking/communications
stations that the Orbiter can talk through.  They are used as a second source of
comm with MCC (Mission Control Center - Houston) to supplement the TDRSS meathod of
comm. The "indications" are usually "name codes" and "frequencies".


-- 
Michael C. Jensen				mjensen@gellersen.valpo.edu
Electrical Engineering				jensen@cisv.jsc.nasa.gov
Valparaiso University				mcj0716@exodus.valpo.edu
"I bet the human brain is a kludge." -- Marvin Minsky
From: pstinson@pbs.org
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:58:44 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1007@vk2bea.UUCP>, michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann) writes:
 
> If an event happens on the moon (say a meteor strikes the surface), what
> do we record as the date that it occurs? Not Houston time I bet.
> 

We seem to be heading towards a lunar based calendar.
  One lunar "day" = 4 weeks on Earth (about equal to 1 Earth month)
  One lunar year = 13 lunar days = 52 Earth weeks (with a little bit left over)

In the future, events taking place on the moon will be recorded by the people
living on the moon using whatever calendar and time system they have devised to
meet their local needs.  The people on Earth may note the day that an event
happened on the moon (or at least the day that they became aware of that event)
but they are not likely to be that interested in knowing the time of impact
down to the minute and second.  They will let the people on the moon handle it
any way they want to.
From: mjensen@herman.gem.valpo.edu (Michael Jensen)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Strange circle-like curves on shuttle map
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:31:30 GMT
Distribution: world

In article <999@vk2bea.UUCP>, michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug7.213920.19357@Csli.Stanford.EDU> cortex@csli.stanford.edu (John Eisenberg) writes:
|>  >I was watching NASA television last night and I noticed
|>  >circle-like curves on the globe that surround what may be
|>  >tracking stations or emergency landing sites.  These curves
|>  >have strange indentations and so forth.  Does anyone know 
|>  >what they are and why they look as they do?
|> 
|> They indicate the maximum range for the ground stations to receive
|> the shuttle (at normal shuttle altitude). The ground stations are
|> sometimes obstructed in their view by structures (man made and
|> natural), hence in a particular direction there may be less range
|> than an un-obstructed path (hence the indentations).
|> 
|> Now there is a marking on NASA shuttle maps called the "Southern Atlantic
|> Anomaly".  Does any one know what that is?
|> 
|> -- 
|> Michael Katzmann	  >	Broadcast Sports Technology Inc.
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~	 <	Crofton, Maryland. U.S.A
|> Amateur Radio Stations:   >
|> NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV	 <	opel!vk2bea!michael@uunet.uu.net


	The Southern Atlantic Anomaly is an "area" of high "radiation" and "e-mag
interferance" that disrupts communications, and can cause SEL/SEU problems.

-- 
Michael C. Jensen				mjensen@gellersen.valpo.edu
Electrical Engineering				jensen@cisv.jsc.nasa.gov
Valparaiso University				mcj0716@exodus.valpo.edu
"I bet the human brain is a kludge." -- Marvin Minsky
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: ***QUESTION***  RE: Space Shuttles...
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:23:39 GMT
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division

In article <Lc9kPB6w165w@iowegia.uucp>, quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) writes:
> 
>         Can anyone answer the question that has been burning a 
> hole in the back of my mind?  The question is:  Why is the flag 
> painted on the shuttle in mirror image?  I have seen this 
> represented on models, and in pictures.  This is quite puzzling.
> 
>         Please post any responses publicly here...........sq
-- 


Interesting, the few pictures that I have (gifs included) are of the right
side.  Is the flag as seen on the left side facing the normal way?

BTW, are you thinking that there is something wrong with this orientation?
It is perfectly acceptable to display the flag facing left, right or down.

As for the Navy in sailing days, the flag blew in the direction of the wind.
Basically, it faced forward as viewed from the right, so this doesn't
really answer the question, does it?  :-)

 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: communication question (LOS)
Keywords: comm
Date: 17 Aug 1992 22:29:05 GMT
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Originator: kjenks@krakatoa

In article <1992Aug15.202015.15166@leland.Stanford.EDU> mmm@leland.Stanford.EDU (michael murray) writes:
>
>If there are three TDRSS satelites orbiting the earth, why does shuttle 
>communication experience a loss of signal?
>
>It seems to me that with three satelites, there could be constant coverage of
>shuttle communication.  Therefore it leads me to believe that NASA designed
>the system to include an LOS region.  WHY?

Yes, with three FULLY OPERATIONAL TDRSS, we could have constant
coverage.  But one of our birds has a bad "forward link," so it's now
staying in "the middle" between TRDS-E and TDRS-W.  See the
Communications Overview charts I posted in:
  ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/DOC.SHUTTLE/commov*.gif
(That's anonymous FTP, or use "xgetit" or the brand-new "getit" software.)

Specifically, the chart on page 7 shows the TRDSS constellation.  It's in:
 ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/DOC.SHUTTLE/commov08.gif

The text reads "This picure illustrates the 95 percent world coverage
provided by two TDRS.  Each TDRS flies in geosynchronous [Clarke] orbit,
thereby maintaining specific longitudes along the equator and thus
improving communications capability.  For examples [sic], one TDRS
covers more area than three ground stations in a row."

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368

     "NASA turns dreams into realities and makes science fiction
      into fact" -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator
From: pstinson@pbs.org
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:25:50 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA


In article <1000@vk2bea.UUCP>, michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann) writes:
> 
> I posed the orignal question here, but I didn't see any REAL replies!
> 
You must not have read all the replies then.  One of the early ones said the
crew was still on Houston time and therefore the official date for the landing
should be derived from when it occured on Central Daylight Time which the
poster went on to point out is the same as Eastern Standard Time.

That post was a less than frivolous response.
The very first word spoken from the lunar surface was in fact "Houston"!
It makes sense that the time on the moon is connected with Houston and this was
a REAL answer.
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: Kanef@Charon.ARC.NASA.gov (Bob Kanefsky)
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Organization: Sterling Software, NASA/ARC Division
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:34:01 GMT

In article <BtD4A9.6CE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
|> 	I believe universal time is the standard for such things, and when very
|> accurate and precise measurements of duration are required there are more 
|> complex ways of measuring time that are far to complicated for most of us to
|> bother with.  Since "local time" and time zones will be pretty pointless on the
|> Moon, my guess is that visitors and inhabitants will be using Earth calanders
|> and universal time for a while yet.

I read an article many years ago, in the _L5_News_ I think, which suggested
that people living in space may decide to do away with the traditional
hard-to-multiply time units -- since the concept of a day will be meaningless
and the concept of a year almost useless -- and go to a metric timekeeping
system.  For example, a meeting might be scheduled to last four kiloseconds.
After all, the second is already the only time unit used in formal
scientific reporting.

Personally, I don't think that will happen as long as colonies in orbit or
on the Moon are constantly trading information with Earth.  (Maybe on Mars;
if you're not in the same time frame as the person you're talking to, there's
not much point in agreeing on a time zone convention.)  The former American
colonies that became the United States considered adopting the metric system
but decided against it for compatibility with Great Britain, their major
trading partner.  Besides, I think that article underestimated civiliation's
inertia.  While there's no getting around the fact that there are not a round 
number of days in a month or a year, there's no excuse for there being
sixty seconds in a minute, sixty minutes in an hour, and twenty-four hours
in a day.  We're still using the favorite magic numbers of ancient Sumer,
a 5000-year-old habit.

Bob Kanefsky
(Opinions are my own, of course.)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo)
Subject: A new orbiter? (dont think so--was Re: National Space Plane)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:22:35 GMT

It was my understanding that the X-30 was only to be in orbit for short periods
of time, and this was only to escape the friction of the atmosphere to aid
in achieving its speed.  From what I heard, it is meant to travel at
high altituteds, and when plausible, reach a low (very low) orbit. Then
it comes back to earth, and finishes the flight.
I could be mistaken though.  Feel free to correct me.
It seemed its main cargo would be passengers, or upper atmosphere
studying equip.  Watch out concorde  :)


Derek

Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:32:54 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <6533@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> lynnh@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Lynn C Hurd) writes:
>Shouldn't the first words from the surface of the moon have been
>"Contact light on...engine to off.......Houston,....etc.?
>(just wondering when it actually touched down, but "contact light on"
>should be enough of a clue.)

"Contact light on" means contact by one of the long probes sticking down
from the LM pads, not contact by the legs themselves.  Actual touchdown
would be shortly after engine stop (yes, the LM fell the last meter or two).
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: John.Bennett@f301.n670.z3.fidonet.org (John Bennett)
Sender: acsnet@csource.oz.au
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: What Is Fred??
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 20:35:00 +1000

 Giday Henry 
 
In a ques about 'what is FRED' you wrote; 

 
HS> > What program does "fred" refer to?  I've seen it mentioned quite
HS> > a bit but have never come across what it actually is...
 
 How do you mean shrunk? 
Budget was slashed, overall size of 'Fred' was reduced ??? 
 
 
              ...JOHN... 
 

HS> It's a cynical nickname for Space Station Freedom, coined when the
HS> thing shrunk yet again a couple of years ago.
HS> -- 


* MMST 2.09 UnRegistered 
 * Origin: Tassie DataBank Line #W, D'bridge Tasmania 2800mb PEP (3:670/301)
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Shuttle Communications Overview (was: Strange circle-like curves on shuttle map)
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:14:13 GMT
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Originator: kjenks@krakatoa

There have been several questions lately about communication with the
Space Shuttle Orbiter.  For your edification and education, I scanned a
bunch (37) of charts which give an overview of Space Shuttle
communications and uplinked them into:
  ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/DOC.SHUTTLE/commov*.gif

These were part of the introductory training for flight controllers in
April, 1988.  The information is mostly still valid, but there are a
few differences (like the TDRSS constellation).  I'll answer any
questions I can about Shuttle comm, but I'm not a real expert.  Please
post questions on sci.space.shuttle.

These are briefing charts for Mission Operations Directorate Phase I
training for Space Shuttle flight controllers.  The lesson covers the
uplink and downlink communications of the orbiter through UHF, S-band
and Ku-band links with ground station and satellite support.  The
course also covers the CCTV system, Orbiter audio loops, and telemetry
instrumentation.

Now, a few questions for you: 
  (1) Do you find this useful?  
  (2) Is it worth your time in downloading the GIF files and 
      viewing/printing them?  
  (3) Is it worth MY time in scanning and uploading them?

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368

     "Great spirits have always found violent opposition
      from mediocrities." -- Albert Einstein
From: michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon? really.
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:09:33 GMT
Reply-To: michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann)
Organization: Broadcast Sports Technology, Crofton. Maryland.

In article <6533@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> lynnh@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Lynn C Hurd) writes:
 >
 >> The very first word spoken from the lunar surface was in fact "Houston"!
 >> It makes sense that the time on the moon is connected with Houston and this was
 >> a REAL answer.
 >
 >Shouldn't the first words from the surface of the moon have been
 >"Contact light on...engine to off.......Houston,....etc.?
 >(just wondering when it actually touched down, but "contact light on"
 >should be enough of a clue.)

Quite right!

The original post referred to the moon walk though.  
The fact that they said Houston seems irrelavent.  The crew were on MET
(Mission Elapsed Time) anyway.

If an event happens on the moon (say a meteor strikes the surface), what
do we record as the date that it occurs? Not Houston time I bet.

-- 
Michael Katzmann	  >	Broadcast Sports Technology Inc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~	 <	Crofton, Maryland. U.S.A
Amateur Radio Stations:   >
NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV	 <	opel!vk2bea!michael@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: rfedkiw@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw)
Subject: Re:National Space Plane
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 22:59:58 GMT

In Article 10901, ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) write:

>Assuming all goes well, the National Space Plane (NSP) should replace the
>current shuttles (Columbia class). How is the progress of these craft coming
>along? I was pretty impressed with the technology which must be developed
>for it. Hot stuff. (Or at least it will be in orbit.) <Grin>
>Are there any NASA anonynmous ftp sites that might have such info?
>If there are, please Email me.

Since I'm trying to do some hypersonic CFD work, please include
me on this mailing list!!!

--
Ron Fedkiw (rfedkiw@redwood.math.ucla.edu)

A plan is made by someone who is sitting and thinking ...
while others are doing.
From: mjensen@herman.gem.valpo.edu (Michael Jensen)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Future Tether Experiments?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:33:58 GMT
Distribution: world

In article <1992Aug11.220408.7961@ils.nwu.edu>, eric@ils.nwu.edu (Eric Goldstein) writes:
|> 
|> I read that there was some consideration of flying the Italian tether
|> apparatus on a future shuttle flight.  With consideration to the current
|> shuttle program schedule, when could this be done?  And with consideration
|> to NASA policies, priorities, and politics, when is it likely
|> to be done?  Ever? 
|> 
|> Also, when will experiments involving other tether apparatus be flown?
|> Are any scheduled?  (Even if you aren't sure, I'd be interested
|> in hearing an educated guess, and I bet others would be too.)
|> 
|>         Thanks!
|>            Eric Goldstein
|>            Northwestern University 
|> -- 


	Current "NASA" philosophy is... pending fixing the problems with
TSS-1, flying TSS-2 in about 2 years.  Other Tether flights will be on-hold
until we validate the "science" behind the system (which TSS-1 WAS supposed to
do, but was unable to.)


-- 
Michael C. Jensen				mjensen@gellersen.valpo.edu
Electrical Engineering				jensen@cisv.jsc.nasa.gov
Valparaiso University				mcj0716@exodus.valpo.edu
"I bet the human brain is a kludge." -- Marvin Minsky
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: ias2033@frontier.draper.com (Ike Stoddard)
Subject: Re: ***QUESTION***  RE: Space Shuttles...
Summary: Flag is painted as windblown 
Organization: Manned Space Systems, Draper Laboratory
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:43:03 GMT

To the best of my knowledge, the flag on the Orbiter
fuselage is painted to appear as though blown out straight
by the passage of the vehicle through the air.  I believe
it may have had its origins in the practices of the 
Navies of yore, but I don't know what the Army/Air Force
did to this custom.
-- 
Ike Stoddard		found daily at, but not officially representing
STODDARD@DRAPER.COM	Manned Space Systems, Draper Laboratory, Inc.
(617) 258-3882 24 hrs.	Mail Stop 4C, 555 Tech Sq., Cambridge MA 02139
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle