From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: uh, thank you for clarifying this, I think....
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:33:16 GMT

Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:

] drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes...
] DJD> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
] DJD> ] drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes...
] DJD> ] DJD> bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com writes:
] DJD> ] DJD> ] In article <1992Sep3.152443.26511@advtech.uswest.com>, stevens@eat
] DJD> (J
] DJD> ] DJD> tevens) writes:
] DJD> ] DJD> ] # The best I can hope for is that you will someday realize that no
] DJD> n
] DJD> ] DJD> ] # have babies without the kindness of a man.
] DJD> ] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] DJD> ] You didn't really mean to write this, did you?
] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] DJD> first they wanted to be merely citizens with
] DJD> ] DJD> full legal rights, now they wish to chip away
] DJD> ] DJD> at Male Perogatives....
] 
] DJD> 1. which 'right' is being defended?
] 
] Sheesh, drop your flamethrower, Drieux!  I was *only* referring to the
] attitudes of some less than moderate members of the women's movement who think
] that men should have no place in the upbringing of children because "only women
] create life".
 
Gee thanks for Clarifying this.... And Here I had been under
the confusion that this was one of those RightWingFamilyValues
sort of thing, like when Judges and ChildProtectionAgencies
autoReflex and presume that the Male was the Ikky Yukky....

Sorry, I will try and remember that this is one of those
RadFemSurfNazi things... And Not one of the rightWing Gambits...

] DJD> 2. the original construct was attacked on the ground that
] DJD> RAPE is a means of inducing gestation, and not an act of
] DJD> kindness, and hence refutes the Generalization as presented
] DJD> by stevens@eatdust.
] 
] I wasn't even referring to the thread on rape.   I can imagine what kind of
] conclusions one could draw, *if* my statements had been within the framework
] of the rape discussion, but I was only making a "side comment" about certain
] people's attitudes towards men's role in parenting.
] 
] I grant that my comments were not strictly relevant to the rape issue, but
] please realise that I was not at all attempting to say that rape should give
] parental rights to the rapist.  (I thought that you knew me a *little* better
] than to think that I could hold such a bigoted viewpoint!).

But:

1. it is through the kindsness of men that women gestate -
which IS YOUR PROPOSITION. This Proposition IS the proposition
that is UNDER DEBATE. And it does LEAD to the rape discussion.

2. What Devalues the 'paternal rights' of the Father,
merely as he was a Rapist.... Or are you just another
one of those MurphyBrownWannaBe's who does not respect
the rights of FATHERS.....

It Seems to be a constant factor that Rape Mythologically
Changes Biology for reasons not clarified. The UnBornPerson
Suddenly Becomes an UnUnBornPerson Eligible for Murder by
Abortion merely as the Father Was a Rapist. Just as the
Paternal Rights of Rapists Seem to vaporize merely because
the Father was a Rapist....

IF there is some 'intrinsic' ontological value in FatherHood,
then it does not change by the vagaries of Life... or are
You Merely One of those RandomMoralRelativists?

ciao
drieux



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