HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwbirdsa@picarefy.picarefy.com (James W. Birdsall)
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Organization: Green Tiger Software
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 02:29:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.173248.58@iris-dcp.es> mcastro@iris-dcp.es writes:
>you know [...] too long when you go to bed, start to sleep, 
>and suddenly the little voices inside your head said:
>
>you have running jobs
>$

   I was getting ready to go out this afternoon and I wanted to know where
my cats were (they like to charge out the door when I open it, so it pays
to know if they're in range so I can block them, since they're not allowed
out).

   I tried to call Cat::GetLocation() on them.

-- 
James W. Birdsall                            jwbirdsa@picarefy.picarefy.com
Compu$erve: 71261,1731    GEnie: J.BIRDSALL2    America On-Line: GreenTiger
          "For it is the doom of men that they forget." -- Merlin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Is there a PDP-11 (or 8, or...) Emulator?
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:14:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.200035.24633@news.uiowa.edu> dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) writes:
>Heh!  You guys have finally succeeded where cjl failed many times -- you have
>provided a concrete example of a case where assembly will always produce more
>efficient code than C, no matter how good the compiler!

Well, given a good enough compiler that's not true. But for *most* real
compilers this is indeed such a case. There are a few others (for example,
a good BitBlt almost requires self-modifying code, or ask Herman Rubin)
but the point is that except for a few rare cases (this is one of them)
it's just lost in the noise.

My problem isn't with people using assembly. It's with people routinely
using assembly where it's not necessary.

>I can't imagine a C compiler would compile a switch or jump table into
>something like that, no matter how good the optimizer.

Most current compilers leave in a redundant range check.

As for other HLLs, PL/M can generate this code directly since it doesn't
range-check switches (which is normally a major pain).
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Har du kramat din varg idag?            'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.programmer
From: agulbra@flipper.pvv.unit.no (Arnt Gulbrandsen)
Subject: Re: Speaking of timing loops
Followup-To: rec.games.programmer
Summary: The PC joystick isn't all that bad
Keywords: PC, joystick, analog, timing
Organization: ProgramVareVerkstedet - UNIT
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 13:07:30 GMT

In article <viking.716454426@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>	I once had a 286 at 12MHz.  With a joystick plugged in, I
>had a happy lunch hour blowing various aircraft into bit-heaven.
>Enter the 486 at 50MHz.  No way.  A good belch makes for control
>in the fully-whichever direction.  Not good.
>
>	It's my undertanding that the joystick port uses some sort
>of timing loop to read the impedence on the pots of your basic
>Apple/IBM joystick.  If you want good timing, you need a A/D
>converter and a method of calling it.  Sadly, such is not
>available for a reasonable price.  It always saddens me to see a
>truly wonderful game not get sold because the hardware has advanced
>beyond what the game designer had to test it on.

Details: One triggers the joystick by sending any value to a specific
port, reads the same port over and over until two specific bits have
flipped, and computes the position of the joystick from the delays.
  Normally this is done by increasing a counter between each port
read, but it's easy to read the PC's ~1.2MHz clock before triggering
and when the bits flip, and compute the position from that.  Slightly
more complicated, so lazy programmers usually opt for a counter.
  I've written some code which reads the joystick properly.  If
anyone is interested, mail me for a copy.  I've also redirected
followup to rec.games.programmer.

--Arnt
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:48:07 GMT

In article <9225004.6569@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON) writes:
>lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>
>>Matthews' example is very interesting; considering the assembly version is
>>FIVE instructions.
>>
>>cjl
>
>Whereas Matthew's example was basically ONE line? Yes, we already knew that
>most code can be expressed more concisely using a HLL, so what?

The argument was how much code generated and specifically what code was
generated.  The assembler version was literally 5 lines of executable
instructions of a basic nature.  The expansion of the hll wants to be
compared to that.  In your haste to get on the back of the line of those
attempting to "bully" your way into this "argument" you lost track of
what line you were on.

>    ... anything to occupy my spare time ;-)

The arguments put here are technical ones.  The bullshit ones aren't welcome,
yet seem to be the vast bulk of the discussion.  More time is wasted fending
off inappropriate material.  To stick to the relatively technical points, we
were attempting to show whether or not hll-based code could match what a
competent assembler programmer can do by hand.  I contend that there are
whole areas of programming that hll's either do poorly or not at all.  Others
have totally agreed with my points; they don't waste all of our time with
side-stepping tripe.
>Matthew> up your own mind.
>
>	Yes, I've seen enough. I think that this will be my last post on this
>	thread.
>
Fine by me, since as far as I'm concerned, you have failed to put up a first
post on the subject.

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ae@sei.cmu.edu (Arthur Evans)
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Cc: jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu
Fcc: inbox
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:18:21 GMT

"Joseph M. Newcomer" <jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu>, who usually gets things
right, said:
    Yes, Beechwood Boulevard connects to Forbes Avenue in three places

Well, no, it doesn't.  Beechwood crosses Forbes once and then swings
around and runs briefly (sort of) tangent to it, but there's not another
crossing.  "connects to" ??  Well, maybe...

On the other hand, there are two intersections of Beechwood and
Foreword.  And Monitor St has both ends on Beechwood and crosses it in
between.

Art Evans

Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:32:30 -0400 
From: "Steven M. Stadnicki" <ss7m+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: One-and-Two-liners (was Re: Branching in HLL vs. Assembler)

Yes, one-liners (and two-liners, and... etc) were definitely fun to do in
BASIC; I remember the old Beagle Bros ads in Byte, SoftTalk, and the other
various magazines of the early 80s had a bunch of these in them... the one
I recall best drew a hypnotic pattern on the Apple Hi-res screen, and rapidly
inverted it (or, more likely, put two patterns on the two Hi-res pages, and
flipped between them)...

                        Steven Stadnicki
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kharber@ecn.purdue.edu (Keith A Harber)
Subject: Please help me identify this Kaypro!
Keywords:  HELP!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:31:04 GMT


First of all, let me apologize if I have posted in the wrong newsgroup--
I hope no one flames me if I'm in the wrong one, but someone suggested I
try this newsgroup.

I have the following Kaypro portable computer.  It has a Z80 in it, runs
CP/M, and has no hard drive--I think it only has 128k ram.

"Kaypro" in blue on sides of machine, blue keyboard.  "Kaypro" on top
left of keyboard.  Front of computer has gray CRT, displays green text on
black background.  A blue "1" is near the 2 disk drives A and B, which are
half height drives mounted VERTICALLY on the right.  On the back of the
machine, underneath the handle, is "KAYPRO 1" in blue, next to it is a 
sticker with Kaypro 2 on it, along with FCC ID CUL7XLKP2.  The serial #
on the back of the machine is 391875.  Other than the reset button, power
switch, fuse, power input, and brightness controls, there is the following:

J2, six pin phone type connector
J3, serial printer output port
J4, Modem I/O port (serial)
J5, Keyboard 4 pin phone type connector
J6, Parallel Printer output port

I'd appreciate any help in identifying this Kaypro, someone told me that
Kaypro maybe just had a few Kaypro 1's for testing/prototype purposes, and
it evolved into the Kaypro 2 and this one was modified to be a 2.

Thanks!

Keith Harber
kharber@ed.ecn.purdue.edu

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:32:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.075544.25771@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>The argument is now apparent.  This group's "skewed" nature is such that it
>believes by egocentricity that it is representative of the world.

Unfortunately, no.

>In the
>Real World (tm) the *vast* majority of PC's are running MS-DOS, DR-DOS, and
>maybe Windows on top of either of them.

Frightening, isn't it. If IBM had chosen ANY other existing operating
system they might be running something real.

>A small smattering of them are
>running OS/2 as file servers for the DOS machines, typically running
>Microsoft LANmanager, or alternatively Novell Netware as a server, or a
>hodge-podge of other manufacturers' similar products (Banyan Vines, 3-COM,
>Ungerman-Bass, IBM-Token-ring, etc., not in order of usage).  There are
>*extremely few* machines running some flavor of unix/zenix.

>Wasn't Peter the one who said he felt no need to have/use a PC?

An *IBM-PC*. I have three "PCs": two Amigas (a 3000 and a 1000) and a Mac.
I don't have any interest in wasting my time trying to get that damn
abortion that calls itself an operating system to do what I need. I spent
several years on it, and that's enough. There are enough talented individuals
out there willing to reinvent the wheel over and over and over again to
ensure that the supply of MS-DOS software will never dry out, but that
doesn't mean MS-DOS is anything but an obscene parody of CP/M, without
even the excuse of limited resources to account for its essential barren
nature.

The green revolution has proved that with enough effort even dtrip-mined
and poisoned deserts can be made to flower, but I prefer not to live in one.

>obFACT: most PC's are *not* on internet.

Most *anything* is not on the Internet.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Speaking of timing loops
Summary: If I new the details, I'd be rich by now.
Keywords: joystick, analog, timing
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 07:07:06 GMT

	Joe Newcomer wrote a wonderful bit on timing loops being
reduced to ";" by the compiler.  This reminds me...

	I once had a 286 at 12MHz.  With a joystick plugged in, I
had a happy lunch hour blowing various aircraft into bit-heaven.
Enter the 486 at 50MHz.  No way.  A good belch makes for control
in the fully-whichever direction.  Not good.

	It's my undertanding that the joystick port uses some sort
of timing loop to read the impedence on the pots of your basic
Apple/IBM joystick.  If you want good timing, you need a A/D
converter and a method of calling it.  Sadly, such is not
available for a reasonable price.  It always saddens me to see a
truly wonderful game not get sold because the hardware has advanced
beyond what the game designer had to test it on.

	I've since been wondering about the foresight of the person
who invented this method of polling the joystick (or paddles).

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Coke machine at CMU
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:01:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.053312.4033@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes:
>In article <BtxJ98.Iw6@xcluud.sccsi.com> paul@xcluud.sccsi.com (Paul Hutmacher) writes:
>>In article <87501@netnews.upenn.edu> jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot) writes:
>>>I have recently heard of a Coke machine at CMU that is connected to the 
>>>Internet.  Anyone have the whole story???
>>
>>I'd like the ip address so I could ftp a Coke or something.
>
> 0023 Have you ever wanted to download pizza?

The following will probably make slightly more sense to VMS hackers
than Unix heads. :-)

Around here, we have an old command (recently disabled) called
"badqueue", which was used when we had a medley of different printers
with individual printer queues, and one printer would go down.  In
order to make sure that jobs sent to it would still get printed out,
an operator could "badqueue" the broken printer to a working printer
by logging into a privileged account and typing "badqueue
broken-queue-name working-queue-name".

Down at the end of the hall is a soda machine which rarely works.  It
often has warning notes and requests for refunds taped up to it.
Shortly before "badqueue" was disabled, when the machine was acting
up, I taped a large sign up to the front of the machine reading
"badqueue sys$sodamachine amh$waterfountain".

Oh, don't look at me like that.  They thought it was hilarious down
here.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: automatic CP/M to MS-DOS migration?
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:30:05 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep8.085605.14973@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> In article <1992Sep6.021133.17107@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>>If I remember correctly, one of the points in favour of MS-DOS 1.0 when
>>it was introduced was the easy porting of CP/M software (^Z as end of
>>file marker, COM - files, file control blocks).
>>
>>Just how far was this automated? Are 8080 and 8086 related closely enough
>>that you could write an assembler which translated 8080 assembly into
>>8086 code? Was this how, for example, WordStar was ported?
> 
> They aren't related at all, but the "order" of the file system calls are
> the same, so that less mental processes are needed to translate from
> one to another.

About the time that MS-DOS first came out, I remember rumors of software
that developers could get from either Intel or Microsoft (don't remember
which) that would take 8080 assembly source and make 8086 assembly source
from it, with warnings on things that wouldn't translate. The direct
correspondence between CP/M and DOS system calls made it easy to translate
CP/M software to DOS.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re:  The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:42:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.152753.9178@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles) writes:

>I'm sorry - I tried to run this code on my DECstation 5000/133 with Ultrix,
>my neighbour's Sun, my pet Macintosh that I normally use for reading mail,
>my Acorn Archimedes (precursor to the Acorn A4 for those of you who read Byte),
>and the PC emulator on my Acorn Archimedes.  I also tried to run the

Well, none of those are in the list I showed.  No surprise here.

>If I still had access to it, I would've also tried running your code on
>the Amdahl 5890 running UTS (SVR2) - I don't know whether it would've run
>but I somehow doubt it...

Assuming there is an assembler, and assuming
those macros are in the UTS assembler macro library for the equivalent
function, it should have.
(assuming of course that there is an assembler, and it has a macro
library of OSish functions.)

>                                                            Are you saying
>that 150 models and 15 versions of OS make up a significant proportion
>of all computer models/operating systems in the world?  I'm not flaming
>(honest ;-), I'm just curious... 

NO, but have respect for old age.  They used to.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:57:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.090931.15236@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <T7ZIZMC@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.051740.16218@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>>>Weinberg.  I mean really.  Get a grip, folks.  Master as many tools as
>>>you need and use them wisely.  

>>Bravo.

>I totally agree with this;  so why are there so many respondants attempting
>to say such crap as:

>a)	hll is all you *ever* need.

Who's saying that? I think you're creating a straw man here.

>b)	assembler knowledge doesn't improve your skills as a programmer at
>all.

This falls into the "master as many tools as you need" department. Lisp,
Forth, C, Fortran, Smalltalk, and so on also improve your skills.

A recent article in rec.humor.funny is particularly appropriate. A parody
of a famous saying of Winston Churchill's:

	He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no
	heart. He who does so as an adult has no brain.

I know how to drive a tractor, sail a catamaran, ride a surfboard, and
so on... but I drive a car to work.

>Of course I might take exception to the word "need" because some would imply
>it expediently means "can sneak by the boss who is a dim-bulb and get away
>with it even though I know I could make it run better if I did x% of the
>code in assembler".

With x approaching zero as problem size increases.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Har du kramat din varg idag?            'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:30:08 GMT

In article <mch.716033734@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de>,
mch@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Michael Hermann) writes:

|>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

|>>Frightening, isn't it. If IBM had chosen ANY other existing operating
|>>system they might be running something real.
|>
|>Why frightening? Few people have the money to buy programs
|>or computers which are of no use for them. So I believe that
|>for most MS/DR-DOS users and IBM-PC/AT owners this setup
|>does the job the want to be done. 
|>
|>Why were the world happier if they would all use VMS and have
|>a VAX ?

Soon they will be running VMS, OK Windows NT... 

Dave Cuttler did not chose WNT as the acronym at random...


|>Most users I know don't care about the deficiencies
|>their hardware & software (ISA, DOS) certainly has,
|>as long as they get their job done w/o hassle. 

From the users point of view MSDOS is much nicer than many other operating
systems. It isn't particularly comprehensive but then again it would be
difficult to provide a full set of features in so little space.

Where MSDOS is a pox is the same place MAC and the Amiga are - no security so
people are always getting zapped by viruses.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:19:28 GMT

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>I doubt that for any
>practical project, the "restriction" to "only" 16 Mbytes of program space
>should be cause for alarm, so I'll restrict myself to only the two relevant
>cases.

16Mbytes is nothing.  It's a drop in the bucket for some applications.
I've seen people who were having problems with the four gigabyte
limitation you have with 32-bit addressing.  (Hell, I've run into
problems with the 256Mb data+stack you get by default on the RS/6000.)

Lots of "practical" programs require more than 16Mbytes to run.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bwatson@nyx.cs.du.edu (bruce watson)
Subject: Re: Flash illiteracy; was: Re: Deutsches Museum (was: Zuse Computers
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:16:54 GMT

In article <1SEP199208373024@rover.uchicago.edu> frank@rover.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.033942.2502@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes...
>>In article <1856@adagio.UUCP> grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug27.040325.14733@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington) writes:
>>>>I have been asked whether one needs flash to photograph a solar eclipse.
>>>
>>>Of course. You need to fill in the details in the shadow. Of course,
>>>you also need to consider a couple of technical problems:
>>>
>>>1. You will need a very bright flash
>>>2. Flash should be set to fire 2.5 seconds before shutter opens.
>> 
>>Oh?  I've got very good results with a flash which fires 16 minutes
>>before the shutter opens....  Light is not instantaneous you know..
>
>	Even more difficult. If you want to get the stars in the picture,
>	you must also fire up your flash from 8 years to ??? years before
>	for each star you wish to include.
>
The closest star (after the sun) is Alpha Centauri (actually its
companion--proxima) at 4.3 light years.


--
Bruce Watson  wats@nyx.cs.du.edu  Toy Cows, Toy Cows in Africa, Toy Cows