HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M22079@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: SCA Campus Groups
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:22:45 GMT

I remember the founding of Ivyeinrust in Bhakhail as having many fits and
starts.  It helps to have the support of a non-campus group (stability) and
meetings that are regular, short, and friendly.  The initial solicitation of
members at PENN (the university of) resulted in over 50 people gathering to
hear about the SCA.  The number dropped off rapidly and would continue to ebb
and flow for many years.  The events early in the semester were better attended
than those near midterms or finals.  Fighting practice held in an obvious
place on campus was a big draw for the students who would later fight while
dance classes appealed to the more artsy types.  Consistency in place and time
was found to be very important as people would be sporadic in attendance.
 
A side note:  I managed to get access to one of the machine shops on a regular
basis and we turned out a small pile of cheap but sericeable body armor.  I
found the college personnel to be very amused and supportive.
 
                               Ian of Gloucester
 
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Authentic?
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:33:47 GMT

In article <moonman.728110652@camelot> moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin) writes:
>	Anyone who _won't_ go through the trouble is lazy. 

Gentle Lord, 
I feel that I must take umbrage at that remark.  I work for a living, I run 
an outside business, and I am a free-lance writer.  In my spare time, I have 
no interest in spending time in the library.  Research is work, and I don't 
care to invest the emotional and intellectual energy in it.  I am here to 
have fun, not to labor.  (Mind you, I do my share of the dishes.)

Are you saying that I have a character flaw, or that an unwashed heathen 
such as myself is an Abomination Unto Your Sight, and Has No Place In The 
SCA?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Illegal targets (was
Date: 28 Jan 93 11:20:23
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
Distribution: world
	<728034566snx@sloth.equinox.gen.nz>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz's message of Tue, 26 Jan 93 07:49:26 GMT


bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard) writes:
] Silfren and Dennis were writing about basket hilts, which prompts me to quote
] <mutter grumble> rules again.  This time it's the Society rule on basket 
] hilts (the other hand-armour options follow this section).  Merely as a point
] of information before this matter takes off, you understand: 
]
]  5. Hand and Wrist Armor:
]
]     The outer surfaces of the hand and wrist of both arms (see drawings 
]     page 58) must be covered by one or a combination of the following:
]
]     a. A metal basket hilt with enough bars or plates to prevent a blow 
]	from striking the fingers or the back of the hand.  If a basket 
]	hilt is used, a vambrace or partial gauntlet should cover the 
]	remaining portions of the hand and wrist. 
]     (The [Society] Marshal's Handbook:  1992 Edition, pp. 41-42.)

My vambrace, which I always wear, does cover the wrist. The exposure
I've mentioned happens when the hand is at extreme flexion, so that
the basket hilt has rotated enough to let a sword get between it
and the vambrace. In tourney combat, the set of circumstances that
could lead to this seem very unlikely to me, so I don't feel I need
the demi-gauntlet. In the longer and more chaotic battle scenarios,
I don't need the mobility in the hand, so I opt for more protection.

I've never had a marshal comment adverslely on my vambrace-and-basket-hilt
combo in an armour inspection. I wear the demi-gauntlet in war on the
advice of more experienced fighters and Peers.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mfy@sli.COM (Mike Yoder)
Subject: Ranking Performers - Ought We?
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:35:29 GMT


For the most part, I'd like to just second Catrin o'r Rhyd For in her comments
on ranking performers.  In general, don't.

If, however, your lady wife is determined to "impose some order" on the current
situation, there is a very simple and sane system that has the virtue of being
documentably period.

It has just two "ranks," and is based on the London guilds.

If you were, say, a fruiterer, then either

    (1) you were an apprentice, and *not yet* a guild member, or

    (2) you were a journeyman, and therefore a member.

Unlike the German guilds, which seem as a general rule to have been rank-happy,
the London guilds had no further distinctions.  (The guild Master and Wardens
were elected from among the journeymen: they were officers, and the offices
were not overtly skill-related.)

A "master" (small m) was not a more skilled journeyman, but rather someone who
had the capital to take on apprentices, or hire other journeymen.  Confusingly,
in those guilds that required "masterpieces," making one was part of earning
journeyman status, not master status (which was not a formal status within the
guild).

The Wardens were responsible for enforcing guild standards; whether they, or
the guild as a whole, passed judgment on potential new journeymen I do not
know.  (There were invariably three Wardens, except for a few guilds who styled
their Master "Prime Warden," where there were--you guessed it--four.)

Any questions you may have that I *can* answer, I will (I am not an expert on
the matter).

    Franz Joder (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy@sli.com]
From: jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period fighting styles
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:58:57 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

Well, that's an interesting list of suggestions, sure to raise comment.

My comments are:

I don't want to get hit in the knees too much, although I have seen some
instances where the ban on hitting there has allowed very bogus techniques
(mainly opening or pinning an opponent's shield with the knee.)  Here in
the Mists almost all knee armor is metal; at Pennsic that also seemed to be
the case (with exceptions of course.)  Still, the injury most debilitating
that I percieve in the SCA is fighters reinjuring bad knees.  (Followed by
people throwing their elbow or shoulder out.)

Hey, George, maces didn't weigh an excessive amount.

Hands as targets doesn't bother me even without a basket hilt, but I'm
going to have amazingly good gauntlets.  A gentleman at Pennsic (Roberto .??)
had some last year that were wonderful.

If we want to do all that, why not allow grappling as well?

Cheers,

John
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: zimmer@lonestar.utsa.edu (Nancy A. Zimmerman)
Subject: Re: Holy Grail monk chant... help?
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:51:59 GMT


The words (my spelling could be wrong, but it's close) are "Pie Jesu Domine,
dona eis requiem." For the life of me (suffering from an excess of air on the
brain today) I can't remember exactly what it means, but it comes from the
Catholic Requiem Mass, and I remember it from doing Mozart's Reqiuem Mass while
in a college choir. (The pathetic thing is, out of a comedic urge I bashed
myself in the forehead with my sheet music folder after we sang this line,
and *NO ONE* got it. This was in community college, see, and none of these
kids had actually seen "Holy Grail." Ah, well...)
From: dmb@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: timepieces
Date: 23 Jan 93 03:06:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Greetings again unto the Rialto from Lord Thomas Brownwell

I wrote concerning the Ring dial, and forgot to mention that
the insert that came with it indicates that the dial was
actually worked out some time in the 16'th C (in period for
us), as well as mentioning that it was George Washington's
favourite timepiece (some 200 years later).  I also should
have said that the inaccuracy is due to the fact that the
sun's dot of light falls on the inner surface of a ring (2-3
millimeters thick), and as you swivel the dial, the dot moves
on the surface.  If I could figure out a way of marking the
brass, I can probably bring down that inaccuracy to 5-10
minutes.  Ahh, another project...


Thomas
dmb@jacobi.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Subject: Re: Learning Welsh
Reply-To: james@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:24:23 GMT

carrot@bear.stonemarche.org (Little red-headed girl) writes:

>Good gentles, I would appreciate being pointed to a good source for
>learning Welsh. I would prefer 12th century but I would try modern.

The standard (and only one that I know of in English) middle welsh grammar is:

Author:        Evans, D. Simon (Daniel Simon)
Title:         A grammar of Middle Welsh, by D. Simon Evans. [Dublin] Dublin
                 Institute for Advanced Studies, 1970 [c1964]
Description:   xliv, 268 p. 19 cm.


Unfortunately, it's not exactly easy to use or read.  I don't know of any
tutorial approach for middle Welsh available.  There's lots more for
modern though - see my other posting.

-- 
James Moore                            /|\                        james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                     \|/                  Alameda, California
	 "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
			  didn't mean anything at all"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Tattoos
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:19:10 GMT

In article <9301250859.aa03894@mc.lcs.mit.edu> STEWARTL@wood-emh1.army.MIL (LOU STEWART) writes:
>A question came up this weekend regarding tattoos.  Does anyone know
>if they were used at all in our period?  If so, where and by whom
>were they used?  Or were they used only for certain ceremonial
>purposes, or by special people, such as priests or wizards?  Will
>appreciate any information the good gentles of the Rialto can
>provide.  Luigsech ni hIfearnain, Calanais Nuadh, Calontir.
>

It's out of the main scope of the period, but Otze, the late
neolithic/early bronze age hunter they dug out of a Tyrolian glacier
last year had some tattoos on him. I haven't seen pictures, but
appearantly they were just very simple geometric forms, not elaborate
pictures like we have today. They appearantly used blue ink to make the
tatoo. 
	This gives an early cut-off date (c. 10,000 B.C.E.).
	  
The Huns and the Mongols were described as having "scarred" faces. From
what I have read, these are either ritual facial scars, or an attempt to
keep the beard from growing on the cheeks. (Chinese/Persian illos of
Mongols show them with wispy Chinese style beards). These aren't tatoos,
but are some form of permanent "body decoration" from period.   

	I know nothing more.

Lothar \|/
        0

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authentic?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:44:13 GMT
Organization: House of the Moss Rose

Greetings, fellow Rialtans. Tadhg writes:

> Master Sion Andreas and I, lo these many years ago, came up with a four
> bucket categorization: (1) a period thing done in a period way; (2) a
> period thing done in a modern way; (3) a modern thing done in a period
> way; and (4) a modern thing done in a modern way. We considered (1) to be
> in fulfillment of the "re-creation" aspect of the SCA, and (3) to be in
> fulfillment of the "creative" aspect of the SCA, but (2) and (4) were
> right out.

	So, you're saying that someone wearing garb on a period
pattern but sewn using a sewing machine isn't a good SCAdian? IMHO,
type 2 maintains the atmosphere necessary for a good event. A
hand-sewn tuxedo, OTOH, won't.
--
God: grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change; 
     the Courage to change the things I can; and the Wisdom to 
     know the difference....and keep me from strangling all those 
     fools and idiots out there! 
                                           -Sir Taras the Cossack 
 
Craig Levin/Pedro de Alcazar, Illiton, MKdm moonman@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw12.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Tadhg's Preferred Geographic Area 
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:58:22 GMT

Eyesight: I did try wandering around at an event for a weekend without 
visual correction, once. (For reference, I'm horrifyingly myopic (over 8
diopters) but not astigmatic. I wear contact lenses.) I could handle being
led around, to a certain extent, but when I slammed into a tent peg and
wound up with a swollen knee, I gave up. My problem is that without 
correction, I am largely blind, but I don't have the instincts and 
coping strategies that the truly blind have, since I spend almost all of
my time with basically normal vision. I think I'm better of with my basically-
unobtrusive-but-vastly-modern contact lenses.

Alison MacDermot
(Oh, you mean that shapless blue blob? I thought you meant the shapeless blue
blob over thataway.)
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: norraent tungumal
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:51:45 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

>Kvedjur til rialtofolksins fra brynhildi kormaks dottur.
Bjalfi Thordar sonr kvedir ther vel.

>Good gentles, one of the requests I get most often has to do with good texts
>for the selfteaching of (modern) Icelandic--that language being as close as we
>can come nowadays to what Viking Age types would have spoken.

A good learning resource for *OLD* Norse is Sigrid Valfells and James
Cathay, "An Introduction to Old Icelandic".  It has a lot of short 
chapters, each with a page or two of drills, so it ought to be usable
as a self-taught coursebook.  (I think it also has a corretion key
in the back... I used it in a class with a teacher, and that was about
seven years ago, so my memory is spotty.)  The focus is primarily on
reading, but in a self-taught course you won't develop good pronuncia-
tion anyway.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authentic?
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:57:32 GMT
Organization: House of the Moss Rose

Greetings, fellow Rialtans. Lady Alayna said:

>	Please, all of you stop and think about what you are saying!
>	Try and recall the spirit in which the SCA is founded and in 
>which we participate.  Authenticity, is a goal, the ATTEMPTS IN GOOD 
>FAITH to be authentic is the reality.  Yes, obviously there will be a 
>wide range of attempts, but to qualify them is to rate them and, 
>frankly that is not what we are all about, or so I have been led to 
>believe.  

	If we're not about the rating of people's attempts at
attaining authenticity, at least in some part, why do we have the
Laurel and the kingdom-level awards that lead to it? In intent, at
least, we're supposed to be an educational organization, & we ought to
reward those who are "pushing the envelope" for authenticity and
teaching others their knowledge.

>	When someone asks about authenticity the best response, in my 
>opinion, is to have that person do their best within their own ability 
>and resources.  The more they research and work, the more "authentic" 
>it would be, but this does not mean that someone who can't or even 
>won't go through all the trouble should feel penalized.

	Anyone who _won't_ go through the trouble is lazy. The barest
amount of research can't take more than a few minutes with an
encyclopaedia. Even if you don't own one (a distinct possibility) any
public library has at least 2. I can almost understand how someone
cannot do research, but surely they can ask someone for help, yes?
--
Always carry a spare...of -everything.-  
                        -Ioseph of Locksley 
 
Craig Levin/Pedro de Alcazar, Illiton, MKdm moonman@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Who's Next?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:14:28 GMT

Eirik asked if it is illegal for the same person to be Exchequer and Seneschal
of a Barony, according to Corpora, the West Kingdom, or other Kingdoms.

Interesting.  I can cite chapter and verse [1] for the SCA, Kingdom's
and Principalities about the separation of the two, but I cannot find a
requirement in Corpora or the By-Laws about that requirement for local
groups.  This is disappointing.  There may be such a provision in the
Corporate Policies and Procedures manuals, but I don't have those to
hand, and don't know them well enough to be sure.

As for the East Kingdom, the laws strongly imply that the two positions
are separate, and specifically allows small groups to combine them, but
it never says that they must be held by separate people in
Baronies/Provinces.

	Tibor

[1] If anyone actually want's chapter and verse, let me know.
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Western Land Purchase
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:21:50 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <727503223snx@sloth.equinox.gen.nz>,
bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard) writes:

> PS:  I received an SCA form letter the other day which opened "Gentile 
> Cousins" and expressed the hope "that the New Year is a more prosperous, and 
> 'kinder, gentiler' year than the last was".  I know I can't really accuse the 
> writer of anti-Semitism, but it did occasion much mirth and shaking of heads 
> and quiet murmurings of "these Americans are crazy".  ]-) 

and in article <1993Jan21.171923.11527@pbhya.PacBell.COM>,
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) responds:

> (As for the 'gentile cousins'--just remember that all to many folks
> just can't spell.  Sanity has very little to do with it.)

Ah, it has been SO long since this thread has surfaced!

While many a posting is marred by misspelled words, in this case, the
spelling could well be deliberate - and correct.  "Gentile" is an
authentic period spelling of the word we know as "gentle", according
to no less an authority than the Oxford English Dictionary.

Then again, perhaps the author WAS Jewish!

				- - Steve
 

--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@euler.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: body painting 
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:47:33 GMT

Pagan did write:
>  > Try Woad!!
>... said Gaelan MacCuinneagain.  Yeah, right:  how does Sir prefer to wear his 
>woad?  I quote from the article "Woad as a Prehistoric Pigment", published 
>in the Journal of the Royal Horticultural Society (1901) by Charles B. 
>Plowright M.D.

Um.... This should not be considered a reliable source, but I've heard that
woad is somewhat narcotic and can be absorbed through the skin.  This may
be just a myth, but you might want to get an authoritative answer before
you try using the stuff....

			---Simon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guyw@advtech.uswest.com (Guy Wells)
Subject: Re: What is a protege? (was  Re: Being aware...)
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:50:24 GMT

In article <C1Is6M.3wx@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Ian "Rhys" Klinck) writes:
>
>I think it's from the (also mistaken) idea that protegees/apprentices/squires
>are specifically "Pelicans/Laurels/Knights in training", and that you have to
>be a squire to become a knight, etc...
>
>No matter how often I hear someone (and usually a Peer) explain that this is
>by no means the case, popular belief remains otherwise...

I'd like to think I am an example of a the "not a Pelican in training or
(PIT)." I am the Student (capital S) of a noteworthy Pelican in my
kingdom. Having done some arts things, some service type things
(autocratting and the like), and a LOT of fighting, I continue to try to
learn the ins and outs of the different aspects of my kingdom's SCA
experience. 

Net result so far: I have received my Kingdom's Fighting Award (Defender
of the Stag's Blood), which is a big deal for Outlands fighters. NOT the
kingdom service award.

I'd say that shows you don't have to be a Knight/MOA's squire, at least
here, to be taken seriously. This helps to break the popular belief
mentioned, I hope.

(It probably helps, though, that my Master is about to be Knighted at 
Estrella.)

Jalut

>
>Rhys


-- 
--
Guy M. Wells <guyw@uswest.com>  Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no
U S WEST Advanced Technologies  one elses, and certainly not USWEST's!