HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: br866@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Terry L Rooker)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Realism vs. Mechs
Date: 23 Dec 1992 14:03:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Why run around in a humanoid-shaped fighting vehicle (HFV)?

Because it is fun:-)


You points are well taken.  Any logical analysis of the environment 
would reveal the flaws of this type of machine.  As a matter of 
there are usually all types of rule gymnastics simply to maintain
the superiority of the "favored" technology.  The recent thread on
changing the sequencing of Mech vs vehicle movement is an example.
While I think a discussion on this topic would be interesting, it
has little to do with the game.  The Mech-type games are played
becasue it is fun to think of yourself running around in a large
robot.

As for reality, never mind the future; there are lots of currently
existing wepaons that do not exist in BT and others because they
would restrict the dominance of the mechs.  For starters here is 
a short list;

	wire-guided weapons (or any weapon with an effective range
	of more than 1000m), "earthquake" bombs, "sticky" incendiary
	weapons (napalm or WP), smart guidance weapons, and fuel-
	air explosives.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: Re: Presenting the FAS-2RZ Flash. _VERY_ fast mech (3025)
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:57:38 GMT


From: RiTz@eckert (Richard Taillon)
> Name: FAS-2RZ Flash
> Max. Weight:        20.0 t          Armour Value:   56   ( 3.5 t)
> Current Weight:     20.0 t                        Interior   Exterior
> Internal Structure:  2.0 t          Head           3          9
> Reactor size: 200  ( 8.5 t)   (1/2) Center Torso   6          8/ 3
 > Walking: 10                  (3/4) Left Torso     5          5/ 2
 > Running: 15                  (5/6) Right Torso    5          5/ 2
 > Jumping:  0                    (7) Left Arm       3          5
> Heat Sinks: 10     ( 0.0 t)     (8) Right Arm      3          5
> Gyroscopes:  1     ( 2.0 t)     (9) Left Leg       4          6
> Cockpit:     1     ( 3.0 t)     (0) Right Leg      4          6
> Jump Jets :  0     ( 0.0 t)
> Max. Heatbuildup:  0  Offensive Range:  0- 9     Price: 1,563,440.40
>  
> Wepons:
> 1. Medium Laser

	Ok, I have callculated $ 1,671,200 C-Bills... which means that
	I (me that is:) or everyone else uses the formulas different.

	I guess I'll have to entertain the tought that you guys are
	wrong :) Anmyways, the 'mech is 780 Combat value at 2.14 Eff.
	BTW, my cost doesn't include a single hand actuator.

	Vute little bugger...


+---------------------------------+   ___     ___       ___
| Stephane I. Matis               |  /   \_BATLLETECH  /\__\ Viva NeXT! 
| E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca |  \___/   \___/     \/__/ NeXTSTEP 3.0!
| "It Just Works..." - Steve Jobs |      \___/   
+---------------------------------+       Wolfnet Operative & NeXThead
From: Jesse.Taylor@launchpad.unc.edu (Jesse Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Hey, how about this as a solution for 'mech vs. vehicle motion...
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:36:58 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

Each war machine in the game is assigned a Coolness Level from 1-5, and
they move in that order, ie the Coolest looking 'mechs move last, after
all other 'mechs have moved. Thus, if the design looks stupid, it moves
first. Not only would this eleminate the 'mech vs. vehicle problem (a lot
of the vehicles look cooler than a lot of the 'mechs) but the Clan
Omnimechs would ALL MOVE FIRST!! Not to bust on the Clans, but I really
think those Omnimecha look STUPID!! Ahem, sorry. This also means that the
'mechs from the origional book move first, since, IMHO, they look, well,
neater than all the 'mechs since then. Except the Behemoth. So what if the
design couldn't possibly work for the picture (what, the two Gauss Rifles
fire out of the same barrel?!?), but that thing is just...COOL!

Thus, from now on, instead of being loaded with weapons and armor, 'mechs
would be designed to look cool, since cool 'mechs have an advantage over
dippy 'mechs.... Which means FASA has to get some new artists......

THE ABOVE IS JUST A JOKE!!! IF YOU TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, IT MEANS THAT YOU
DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE, AND THAT YOU HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR. TAKING THIS
MESSAGE SERIOUSLY WILL RESULT IN YOUR HOUSE BEING STOMPED BY STR-MLN1
MACEK MECHA. (that's not a 'mech, that's a 100-ton guy with a pair of
scissors)

Hehehehaaaaa!!

JT had a bit too much eggnog before writing this......

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Query...
From: parnell_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Pi-Rat)
Date: 1 Jan 1993 11:05:39 GMT
Reply-To: parnell_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

I guess by now that just about every-one has had a New Years
experience, or lack of one [B-).

And now for something completely different......

Does any-one out there know of a copy of FA$A's Map Set 1, that
needs a new home? Or know of some place I could still get my
hands on it..... (this may prove a bit difficult since i'm in New
Zealand [B-)  )

Please E-Mail me any info....

And T.I.A.

Paul
	Ciao, May The Dice Be With You
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|       We gaurantee fast service, No matter how long it takes...             |
|                                  EMail:PARNELL_P@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz         |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: carlton@apollo.hp.com (Carl Hommel)
Subject: Re: BTECH: Pulse Laser Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:53:09 GMT
Distribution: World
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

>   My question is: Is there any reason why we would want to keep using pulse
>laser weapons? Otherwise, I am going to go back through my designs and strip 
>them out. 

It seems generally agreed that Speed Gives Live around here.  So, consider
the humble Spider vs an Atlas:

NAME         Tons  Pow  W/R/J Arm  H Cen  Side Arm Leg HS  Weapons
SDR-5V Spider 30   240  8/12/8 56  6 8/4   6/2   5  6  10  ML ML
SDR-7M Spider 30*  240  8/12/8 53* 6 8/3   6/2   5  5  10  MPL MPL
AS7-D Atlas   100  300  3/5/0  304 9 47/14 32/10 34 41 20  ML(4) AC/20 LRM-20 SRM-6

Lets assume that you are not fighting in a flat open plain, but there are
some hills to block Line of Sight and provide partial cover, and some trees
to block LOS and provide +1 and +2 modifiers.

The Spider's PogoStick strategy is to jump 7 or 8 hexes each turn, preferably
into woods, or perhaps using Partial Cover.  Assume the Atlas walks 1 hex into
light woods.  If the Spider jumps into Light Woods next to the Atlas,
the Atlas needs:

    Short Range + movement + target move + terrain
       4 + 1 + 4 + 1 = 10

If the Spider can jump into heavy woods, or get PC, than that becomes 11 or 12
to hit.  Not very likely.

On the other hand, the Spider needs
    Short Range + movement + target move + terrain
       4 + 3 + 0 + 1 = 8

Not really good odds when you are facing an AC/20.  However, with Pulse Lasers,
I need 6 to hit.  I'd be willing to face an Atlas with those.

If you have a mech that can outjump your opponent, you need two consecutive
turns of initiative to get a guaranteed back shot.  MPLs make it more likely
that you will hit.

Carl Hommel
carlton@apollo.hp.com
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Probably Useless, but...
Date: 22 Dec 1992 04:20:07 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Dec21.230012.20921@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>   What was the Pheonix Hawk and Stinger doing out there, hanging 'round a
>Charger anyhow? They had to be asking for it to get it from a lumbering 80
>lump o' steel! Why, a kid on a dirtbike could get away from a charger, yeah!
>Heck, I know Locust Pilots who think the Charger's funny! Hey, maybe he
>thought you were on his team and were huggin' him, like sayin' Hi! Or
>something?
>-- 
>      /| ________________   |probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|  Lord of the Flies 
>O|===|* >________________>  |probe@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu|  1st MPC Division
>      \|                    | nandy@scivax.stsci.edu |  Colony Mechworks
>  Velox - Durus - Infestus  |  nandy@fos.stsci.edu   |  Colony World Myops

 Ah, Grasshopper, with this you will learn wisdom.
  Honourable Chu-sa Taia did move the Chargers LAST and then did the
screams of horror begin........
 Remember this also, Locust carries 64 points of armour, Charger delivers 64:)


This has been....
 Tony Taia                                    (Chu-sa of the Second Genyosha)
 TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  **Join the DCMS see the Inner Sphere and kill it**
3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! :)
**Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Singing with the Luthien Boys Choir :)
Date: 25 Dec 92 02:17:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User

In article <ajross.725160308@husc.harvard.edu> ajross@husc10.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross) writes:
>taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:
>> The Twelve Days of Christmas (as sung by the Luthien Boys' Choir)
>>  (Sung to the traditional tune of....you guess what it is :)
>
>> [first 11 verses deleted]
>>
>> On the twelveth day of Christmas the Kanrei gave to me,
>>  twelve Chargers charging,
>>  eleven Locusts running,
>>  ten Wasps a' leaping,
>>  nine Victors skidding,
>>  eight Jumpship jumping,
>>  seven Dropships droping,
>>  six Eagles flying,
>>  five Madcat-Ds,
>>  four Jagermechs,
>>  three Stinger LAMs,
>>  two Crossbow meks and an Atlas with a C-3.
>
>100 C-Bills to the first person to come up with the correct total tonnage
>of the unit listed above.
 
 
    |)
    |)etter yet, 100 C-Bills to the first person to figure out the
 total COST and COMBAT VALUE of the above.  For the dropships use
 whatever it would take to transport everything else (if you can --
 only seven dropships would mean having 8 mechs in 6, and 9 mechs in
 the 7th) and likewise for the jumpships.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri)
Subject: Re: Batteltech: Who's in control 'ere
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
Reply-To: Lemming Productions Present... <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:33:56 GMT

I have to agree a lot with the Lunatic. FASA is a business, and their
business is making games. If they sell games, they make money and stay in
business; if they don't sell, they lose money and go bankrupt. So, in order
to sell the most product, they have to please a majority of the market.
This is what they've done.

I'm not saying if it's "bad" or "good"; it's a fact of ecconomics.

In the end, though, I have to look down upon those that have totally
abandoned the game just because of some changes FASA makes. If you don't
like the changes, then for cripes sake DON'T USE 'EM. If you don't like the
Clans, DON'T USE 'EM. If you don't like Star League tech, DON'T USE IT. If
you don't like the new rules, DON'T USE 'EM.

Nobody is twisting your arm to use FASA's "official" rules.

--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the
shoulder of Orion. I've watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser
Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die.
                                        --Roy Batty, from the movie Bladerunner
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Written by hand!
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 23:53:43 GMT
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <BznxqB.84z@newsflash.concordia.ca>, kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane) writes:
>I will post as soo as I can the files and info I promissed.
>Tony : Sorry :( ,  my mail doesn't even work. Bummer. 

 Don't worry yourself Steph. I need the time to surf anyway instead of reading.
Thanks for the notice anyway.

> - Steph
>	A man without a directory ... a man without a .sig!

 BTW Before I forget Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all, even Axly:)

 T'was the night before Christmas and all through the Sphere,
  Not a Clan mek was moving, there was nothing to fear............
This has been...            : "I have never listened to anyone who criticized
 Tony Taia                  :my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas.
  TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz :When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave
My ideas are mine only, ok? :leave the room." - Ray Bradbury 1980. Age 60.
From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Mekton: Mekton Mecha
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 13:14:18 EST
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA


Citizen Lemming <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu> writes:

> Well, I'm working on fixing up the MTS' samples, but it's a slow process
> with everything else I'm doing. They'll get posted when I'm done, along
> with any others I come up with.

   Excellent.   You  might  notice  that the Venture I posted earlier is a
        fixed Turbo variant.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp]) |  PGP 2.0 Key avail
...!emory!uumind!runic!thantos                     |      upon request.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mecha: It is said that these metal giants were shaped like men, so the
    alien servents of evil would know it was Man who defeated them.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Which weapon is best? (Was: Re: btech lrm)
From: quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:39:21 NZST
 <1h2p4eEINN79o@uni-erlangen.de>,<1992Dec21.173731.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> <1h5grhINNhpc@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
Distribution: world
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:

: This thread is losing it's "mecha"
: and should start moving to rec.arts.sf.science. 

   Agreed.
   Mind you, without going into NBC or Asteriod warfare, what might be done
with a little bit of thought given Btech technology ?
   One possible system might be to have Arrow missiles in some safe location
(such as out to sea, or in a fortress) and use TAG units carried by infantry
or remote units (using fibre optic links so as not to be TOO noticable)

"Ok, you lot, blast through that village, and stomp any PBI you find !"
"But Daisho, last time we did that, 5 missiles blew away Tanaka-san !"
"*WORMS* ! Alright, go and stand at point Omicron-Blue !"
"What, near that patch of forest that may or may not have a nasty terrible
 infantry-man in it ?"
*BLAM*
"Ok, you lot, blast through that village, and stomp any PBI you find !"
"At once, most honourable Sergeant-sama !!"

- From "Draconis Combine NCO's manual on interpersonal relations"

::Tony Q. (And when people comment "Bit expensive isn't it ?", I point out the
::joys of hijacking... 8-) )
:
:  The joys of hijacking are not easy! You approach an enemy dropship....

"Ah, Lewis Tang, isn't it ? Registered out of the Outworld's Alliance ?"
"Yes, that's right. Why are your company of Aerospace Fighters stopping us
 from mating with our Jumpship ?"
"We just have to borrow your ships for a while, under the War Resource's Act.
 We'll pay you for your time..."
"Ah, I see. But what if my ships get damaged ?"
"Not a problem <giggle>. Simply present them <snort> to the nearest repair
 facility and we'll be happy <guffaw> to fix any minor problems."

- From Transcript 124C41, Liao Military Aerospace Archives.

Tony Q.
From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Mekton: Mekton Mecha
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 11:56:22 EST
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA

thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp]) writes:

>    Are  there  any  other  Mekton  mecha  jocks out there who have ,eks to
                                                                 +m--^

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp]) |  PGP 2.0 Key avail
...!emory!uumind!runic!thantos                     |      upon request.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mecha: It is said that these metal giants were shaped like men, so the
    alien servents of evil would know it was Man who defeated them.
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Which weapon is best? (Was: Re: btech lrm)
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:35:29 GMT
 <1h2p4eEINN79o@uni-erlangen.de>,<1992Dec21.173731.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Dec21.173731.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>, quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer) writes:
>>>> I nominate the disruptor as the Klingon weapon of choce....
>>> I nominate the Genessis device. It's Ecologically friednlly!
>> I nominate the Ringworld Laser from Larry Niven.

>   Why look outside the Battletech universe for mega-weapons ?
>   I mean, even if you don't use nukes (and why not, I ask myself, the
>scummy Combine/Clans/Fedrats/Whoever *deserve* them 8-) ), consider the
>simple laws of physics. You have dropships weighing in at the kiloton
>range moving towards a planet by constant acceleration to halfway, and
>then constant deceleration until touchdown.
>   So what happens if they just constantly accelerate ? (I'd figure it out
>myself if I had "Dropships and Jumpships" handy)

 You end up with a big hole in the ground! This thread is losing it's "mecha"
and should start moving to rec.arts.sf.science. Now everyone go and read
"Footfall" and "Lucifer's hammer" by that great duo Jerry Pournelle and Larry
Niven. Since these deal with rocks dropping onto planets.

>Tony Q. (And when people comment "Bit expensive isn't it ?", I point out the
>joys of hijacking... 8-) )

 The joys of hijacking are not easy! You approach an enemy dropship....
*****
 Dropship : Approaching dropship. You IFF code is incorrect, revarify.
 Hijackers: Uh, what was that again?
 Dropship : IFF incorrect, revarify else we will go to affirmative action.
 Hijackers: Ok, will this do? *send another code*
 Dropship : IFF incorrect! Affirmative action is go! *D/S fires on hijackers*
 Hijackers: AARRRGGGHHHH!!!! *Hijackers destroyed*
 Dropship : Nice knowing you, have a nice day! :)
*****
 The IS doesn't have dropships to spare to dump on planets. Using asteroids
is too slow! Yeah, the enemy isn't going to let you hang around and do it for
a start. The purpose of attacking a planet is so that you can take the planet.
The anti-social nature of ABC (Atomic, Biological & Chemical) weapons does
not serve this purpose. The only side to use such tactics is the IS and we
don't have a chance againist the Clan warships. We must fight them on the
ground and not in space.
 Unless we get warships, but that's another story....

This has been....
 Tony Taia                                    (Chu-sa of the Second Genyosha)
 TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  **Join the DCMS see the Inner Sphere and kill it**
3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! :)
**Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: Clans ... and their nicknames
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:16:54 GMT

taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:

> 1. We never asked for help from Hanse Davion. He sent the Mercs without
>our knowledge. Never hurt a bit as we never asked.

You could have sent them home, honorless dog.

> 2. Did it hurt you to know that the Wolf Dragoons and Clan Snord think you
>guys "lack a sense of humour"? And don't want to return to the fold.

Nah, we got the best looking one back, so we are pretty happy. 

> 3. Why does some Pup worry about Luthien? You trashed the Free Rasalhague
>Republic, big deal! We did it with half the forces during the Ronin wars.

Oh, how noble to brag about your disobedience to your daimyo.

> 4. Doesn't it erk you Clansie Wansies that Phelan Kell made Khan? What low
>standards you Clans set :) Soon he'll be Il-Khan.

Oh, we do not really mind. His innovative tactics work well when fighting
honorless scum. (Yes, that is you.)

> 5. Fight in 3050 IS tek and then see how far you get, trash-born.

Oh, I do fairly often. Normally I play 3050 IS vs. about .75 my weight
in Clans. It is very challenging.

Axly

*******************************************************************************
*                         Star Captain Axly                                   *
*                         Alpha Second Nova                                   *
*                         Supernova  Second                                   *
*                        341st Assault Cluster                                *
*                            Clan Wolf                                        *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: MECH: Heavy Hammer
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:56:22 GMT

foregone@stein.u.washington.edu (Carl Chavez) writes:

>Ah, the TRASHBORN CLAN SCUM :) expects us to believe that! An IS mech with an
>XL is very vulnerable (according to my design theories) because a knocked out
>LT or RT will disable the mech, and torsos have less armor than legs. I'd
>rather have the mech go slower, since 3050 tech has made speed nearly worthless
>against Clans (lose speed and shoot more since they'll probably hit you if
>you're using mechs that don't jump at least 7 or run 10!).

Destroying the torso on the Heavy Hammer is quite difficult given the
armor. It is much more difficult than taking out the torso or legs of the
standard Warhammer. 

Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha