From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:22:55 GMT

>This is absurd Eugene. Mailing a letter to your senator is free speech;
>this forum is free speech; printing a newsletter on your own dime is free
>speech. But I fail to see the "free speech" in filing a suit against some

Because when you sue someone, you are asking for a HEARING.
That's the free speech.  You are asking to voice a case before your peers.
That's all.
That's not a settlement, that's not a judgment, it doesn't say that you
will win, and as others have pointed out, just the prep work can severely
impact a small business.  Not because it's independent of a farmer,
a manufacturer, etc.

>You might then consider
>whether "he looked at me funny" is sufficient grounds to totally devastate
>you partners' lives for a few years.

That's right.  And a Judge would probably throw it out, but you can sue.
But you have to get to the point where the Judge thoses it out.

>>you will get a settlement, it does not mean you will win, but you can sure
>>put the fear of God in some people.  Cause them to spend sleepless nights
>>and spend money on a defense lawyer.
>
>Exactly the point. You ever known anyone on the receiving end of such a
>suit, Eugene?

Yep.  They were looking at the house, the mortgage, etc. going up in smoke.

>No reasonable motive except "to put the fear of God" into the
>defendant? Not a pretty sight. And the more the "fear of God" motive, the
>more vicious the suit becomes. Lives are destroyed, living hells are enacted.
>I guess these patriotic citizens are pretty excited about the
>profit-making potential of the 1st Amendment. Beats "Wingo," eh? 

Welcome to America.  Visit a court.  Take a look at the paperwork.
We did this in high schoool, it will show you how the term The Pen is
Mighter than the Sword has some truth to it.

From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)

>I hope the above is sarcasm.

Some of it was.

>Let's distinguish between the right to sue and the
>integrity involved in exercising the right.

It's a good distinction.
Consider the 1st Amend.: consider adding a clause or an amendment saying
that you can't speak against the 1st Amend.  because you love it, find it
sacred.  Sort of like flag burning laws.  And your thinkning below
indicates this.

>Remember the childhood story about
>the boy who cried wolf? It's the same way with KKK demonstrations and free
>speech ... sure, their right to demonstrate should not be taken away from
>them; that does not mean that what they are doing is right. Similarly
>for nuisance lawsuits. 

That's right, I might not agree with your opinion, but in the US I defend
your right to say what you will.

Hugh wrote:
I like what Hugh said as his closing line.  We are in the thick of things.
>I don't think so: we in NZ have all the rights of "free speech", yet have no
>rights to sue for accidents.
>It's a two-edged sword.  Our state-funded Accident Compensation scheme no
>longer pays out as generously as before.  Payments for "loss of enjoyment
>of life" have been discontinued for example.  There is a possibility that
>the law will be changed to allow sueing after all.

You got part of it.  America has yet to change it's views.

>May we live in interesting times :-)

I like them.  Interesting technical and social problems.  Want to
live in dull times? 8^)

I'm not so interested in continuing the discussion at this point.
When a person from Berkeley posts on the Subject and doesn't bother to
say go over to the local Law School, that's laziness beyond my interest.
I'll do what I did with the r.b. Giardia post and perhaps scan in the
case law on this issue.  I don't know if I'll take Bill's case or
one of the Chouinard cases or someone else's, but I will go off and find it.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:46:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Climbing areas (or gyms) near metro Detroit?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA