From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:47:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.173607.3799@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
|> In Article: 52147 of talk.politics.mideast,   (Alan H. Stein) writes:
|> 
|> >In a previous article, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
|> >says:
|> 
|> >>     It seems that you are acustomed to the Israeli law that discriminates
|> >>among Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens.
|> 
|> >It seems to be that you are ignorant of Israeli law, which does not
|> >discriminate between Jewish and non-Jewish citizens.
|> 
|>      First of all, you know that there are many privileges tied with the
|> military service in which only Jews serve, (in addition to the minorty group
|> the Druze).  Therefore, the Arabs do not have the chance of getting many
|> priviliges and services which require, as one of its conditions, the
|> completion of military service.  Thus Arabs do not get many of those Housing
|> loans, education scholarships, social security, tax breaks, etc...  And even
|> those Druze who serve, usually end up in almost the same diprivation of such
|> priviliges because they are considered minorty group, despite their military
|> service.

Khaled, you are kidding with this one, aren't you? You know very well
that the reason Arabs are not allowed to serve in the Israeli army is
for their own well being. Can you imagine what the PLO and other such
organizations would do to an Arab and his damily if it was found out
that he served in the Israeli army. Or what if that Arab decided to go
live in another Arab country - he would be an outcast if it was found
out that he served in the Israeli army. Any Arab who would serve in
the IDF would essentially cease being an Arab at all, as his Arab
brothers would either completely ostricize him, or would in fact try
to physically hurt him.

As far as the Druze are concerned, they chose to live the way they do
of their own volition. Once someone has served in the IDF they become
a fully integrated member of Israeli society - whether they be Druze
or Jew. And certainly, the Druze have a better live in Israel than
they do in any other Arab country.

By the way, ultra Orthodox Jews also do not serve in the IDF. Does
this mean that Israel discriminates against Jews as well? Or maybe it
is merely a sign of Israel's understanding that certain people CAN NOT
serve in the IDF - and Israel's refusal to force service upon these people.

|>      Also, there are certain areas in Israel where non-Jews are not allowed,
|> BY LAW, to live there.  Such as the village of CARMIEL, where non-Jews are not
|> allowed to live there nor are they allowed TO OWN A BUSINESS (this is the so
|> called Israeli DEMOCRACY !!!!).  Not only that, now that village have
|> incorporated the land of three neighboring ARAB villages (in an effort to make
|> the entire area PURE JEWISH) and are forcing the Arab inhabitants out of their
|> villages.  One of these Arab villages is called Rumayya and their case is still
|> hanging in the Israeli supreme court (I think it is called the Supreme court).

This may be true. But the process is in court. This kind of implies
that Israeli Arabs have full legal recourse, doesn't it? In fact, I
would venture to guess that some of these laws of which you speak are
in fact "not legal" ones at all, and merely represent an abuse of the
system by those who implement them. Surely, though, any Israeli
citizen, whether Jew or Arab, has the right to go to court to fight
these laws.

|>      And what about the Kibutzim,  in which Arabs were not allowed, by law, to
|> become members.  But then when the government noticed that many kiputzim were
|> employing Arabs, as cheap labor, it (the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT) passed a law which
|> prohibits even employing Arabs.  And you talk about the so called Israeli
|> Democracy.

Of what Arabs are you speaking - Israeli citizens or those who live in
Judea and Samaria and the Gaza. Those Arabs who are Israeli citizens
have the right, as far as I know, to do anything Israeli Jews can do.

Of course the story is different with the Arabs who are not Isreali
citizens. These people live a very hard life.  It is true that they do
not have full rights in Israeli society. Yet this is because they
themselves refuse to become Israeli citizens. The intifada maked it
very hard to deal fairly with those who instigate and perpetrate the
violence.

|>      And finally, what about all those special rights and priviliges that are
|> offered ONLY to the new comers to Israel.  And guess who the new comers are???
|> Jews, of course.

Israel, though it is a Democracy, is a country run by the Jews, whose
purpose is to be a JEWISH homeland. This means that Israel can not
allow the majority of its citizens to be non-Jews. Ultimately, all
that the Isreali system can effectively incorporate is a minority
presence of non-Jews.

This can be no other way. If it were, Israel would be facing a
situation similar to South Africa, where a minority rules the country
while the country's majority is treated as second class citizens.

Israel is and must always be a Jewish homeland. This means that the
majority of the citizens of Israel must be Jews. This would explain
why Israel allows Jews to quite easily immigrate to Israel, and does
not allow others to do so. Yet, any one who legitimately converts to
Judaism has full rights to make Aliyah to the Jewish homeland.

Despite all this however, minority groups in Israel, who support
Israel, have equal rights with the Israeli Jews.

|> Wa Salam

What does this mean?

|> Khaled Shammout

Harry.