HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: alt.abortion.inequity
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:09:39 GMT

bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu writes:

> When discussion of the question whether one should destroy a human being in
> the stage of gestation reaches the point where the protagonists simply assert
> their systems of belief, must one not inquire regarding the bases of the
> assurance of the correctness of this or that system of belief?  Then why not
> do so and move to the appropriate heading, or rubric, with clear signals of
> that intent?  A personal note: Bill Thurman has often asked regarding the
> above-mentioned destruction, Would not almost all arguments presented to
> justify it also tend to justify destroying the same human being after
> gestation?

No.

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
"No I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."  --  George Bush
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,alt.conspiracy
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: More Questions Seeking Answers
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:41:44 GMT

Chi-Lan Vu <U19188@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
] I have a question
] 
] Can the government forbid abortions on the ground that they are morally
] wrong or bad for society?  Why? Why not?


Quid Pro Quo:

Can the government forbid UnKindThoughts on on the ground that they are morally
wrong or bad for society?  Why? Why not?


ciao
drieux


ps: Just Say NO! To DangerousThinking!!!!!




-- 
If I have Told You Once, I've Told You a Thousand Times:
To Keep Good Girls From Going Bad,
Put them back in the Refrigerator.
This Also Works for Stale NFS Handles.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: his decision to
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:42:54 GMT

I know that I have sead this befor but it bears repeting=>
The calisnis that some people her show twords the fealings of utheres now and
i the futer is apaling! I cant beleave that some people here actualy beleave
that a man has no stake in wether a child he helped conceve is born or not.
that a man has no fealings in this isue.that he has no right to have a say 
and emotions n this mater. that the only reson for a man having a say is to 
add to a womans opresion. EquilEQUIL RIGHTS means that men and women have an equil
say in maters that can and will efect them bolth. the dission wether or not 
a f/z/e is going to be a borted will efect both the man as well as the woman.
having equil say in everything except abortion were the womans dission is it
and the man has no say,were she dossint even have to tell him about it does
not come out to be EQUIL RIGHTS at all. it comes out to women haveing greater
rights. things will be no more balinced then they allready are.


ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: rights
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:21:48 GMT

a right is not something that you are given, it is not even something you
are realy born with. It is something that you eurn. The most basic law is the
law of nature. Whin every tthing else is gone it will remain.It is very
simple and it has nothing to do with rights or chouce. It states that only
the fit will servive. you will eat and/or be eaten, kill and/or be killed.

ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
From: jf@pacnet.wesleyan.edu (JOHN FINN)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:33:33 GMT
 <1992Aug16.144121.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> <1992Aug16.145443.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> <1992Aug25.212049.10340@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Organization: Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT USA

In article <1992Aug25.212049.10340@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:

>In article <1992Aug16.145443.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jfinn@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Aug16.144121.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jfinn@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>> In article <1992Aug14.170115.2124@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>>>> In article <1992Aug13.051846.29948@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
>>>>>on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
>>>>> for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
>>>>>certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
>>>>> ABA membership. I urge all lawyers who oppose abortion to do
>>>>> likewise.
>>>> 
>>>> Good, there are too many barred lawyers anyway.  I don't mind if a bunch of 'em 
>>>> commit career-suicide.
>>>   
>>Query: In what way would this be career suicide? 


>Ask a lawyer how far he gets without being a member of the ABA.

>-- 
>David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
>Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
>Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
>            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.


Membership in ABA is thoroughly voluntary and hardly a prereq for 
professional success.

John E. Finn
Wesleyan University
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Abortion in historical comparison
Keywords: abortion, slavery, history, atrocity
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:24:08 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Aug31.234719.1771@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) said:
>In article <pizefb7@Unify.Com> sean@Unify.com (Sean P. Curley) writes:
...
>Well, Sean, let me introduce myself. 

Oh boy!  Chaney finds a friend!

>I am arguably the most hated pro-lifer on USENET. 

Arguably?

>                                                  Often referred to in
>affectionate terms such as Turd, Interruptus, Inturdgent, Borgie Boy,
>and most recently, "your fat black ass," I embarked on a wave of
>massive counter-flaming to take a great deal of heat off of pro-lifers
>who would otherwise be flamed off of USENET by the same pro-aborts who
>flamed Siren, one of their OWN KIND, for being too logical, too kind,
>and too peaceloving. 

He also does a heck of a job with run-on sentences.  As you can see Sean,
Chaney is proud of the fact that people find him detestable.  Even some
pro-lifers.

>                     (Yes, these pro-aborts are so vicious that not
>only will they slam you to death, they will and have slammed
>themselves just as badly.) 

There are only a few of us Pro-abortioners on the net.  As far as I know
none of us have slammed ourselves.  We have *lowered* ourselves to
converse with you, though.

Sean, the best thing you could do to get yourself heard on this forum is
to distance yourself from Mr Chaney.  Being linked to him in any way here
is like proudly declaring that Jeffrey Dahmer taught you everything you
know about cooking.


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boytoy of Susan, Muriel,
Cathi, Nora, Jennifer, Sarah, Lynn, Diana (catwoman), and Diana (Sorceress), 
and married to a goddess among women, and proud of it all.
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: alt.abortion.inequity
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:29:16 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: mwilson

Could not 'child' or 'person' have technically committed petitio principii much
more readily than 'being'?  Could not 'being', or even 'entity', have meant
merely 'something that is'?  And whatever this existing thing may be, would it
not also be human?  Why was no quibble also made about 'gestation'?  What's
that and when does it begin?
Surely something human grows there, does it not?  The question concerns whether
to destroy it, does it not?  The issue concerns what factors influence such a
decision, does it not?  Would not one who sees life as a 'long gasp between two
oblivions (pre-natal and post mortal) see a different set of factors from one
who sees what grows there as primarily the property of an Unseen, Supreme
Creator?  Would not the latter kind of viewpoint tend to dissuade a society
from destroying the post-partum human growth?  Given the former kind of
viewpoint, how does one go about demonstrating that any course of action might
be more moral than another?
From: perez@mgr.hjf.org (Charles Perez)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Observations
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:12:58 GMT
Organization: HJF AIDS Research Project, Washington DC

In article <1992Aug19.205546.26173@spdc.ti.com> serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:
>
>>><1992Aug19.163139.22864@spdc.ti.com> serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
> ><1992Aug19.192521.27445@eco.twg.com> chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) 
>
>>>	I do not agree that a woman should not be allowed to an abortion in
>>>cases of rape, incest, or where the mothers life is in danger.  
>
>>This is why I assume that you don't believe that the fetus is equivelent
>>to a human being.
>>Unless you're part of the "Abortion is murder, except in cases of rape
>>and incest" crowd.
>>Do you think that laws prohibiting abortion would make the world a
>>better place to live? If so, why?
>
>What is wrong with abstinence if the woman (and man) cannot afford the 
>consequences of a pregnancy?

Declaring it the only option, that's what.

>I really think you missed the boat entirely.  
>People must begin to take responsibility for their actions.  If you choose 
>to have sex, you must be aware that birth control does not offer a 100% 
>guarantee that pregnancy will not occur.

So, what are we permitted to do about a pregnancy?

>You MUST be willing to accept the 
>consequences of your actions.

True, as a general statement.

>If you cannot afford the costs of pregnancy 
>then abstinence is the only way you will be sure that pregnancy will not 
>occur.

So?

>Let's face it folks, we have sex organs in order to reproduce.  They
>are not there as a toy.

In other words, we have no right to have sex for pleasure.

>If we already took responsibilty for that which we
>do voluntarily, abortion would be a non-issue because the few abortions being 
>performed would be in cases of rape, incest, and those cases where a woman's
>life is in danger. Yes, prohibiting what I call birth control abortions, 

The problem with your argument is that you have not demonstrated that the
fetus has rights, you have *assumed* it. Demonstrate it, please. Arguing
that responsibility for your actions == being constrained not to mitigate
these consequences is akin to saying that a woman having potentially
fatal birth complications, for example (she *chose* to have sex, after
all), should be left to die.


-- 
==========================================================================
That which is necessary is never evil. If an evil seems necessary, look
to your context; that's where its root lies.  - Charles Perez
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.abortion
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Re: Interesting REasoning Pat
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 16:31:16 GMT

Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
}
] NOTE: My mailer is STILL hiccuping madly. 

first off, good luck with the techno.problems....
machines are such annoying things some days....
 
] drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes...
] DJD> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
] DJD> ] dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes...
] DJD> ] DH> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
] DJD> ] DH> In article <92182.092025AOEXY@ASUACAD.BITNET> AOEXY@ASUACAD.BITNET wr
] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] DH> >> DRIEUX is a sick dog homo.  There is only one cure for this. And i
] DJD> he
] DJD> ] DH> >> too. A single 22 slug in the right temple is quite effective!
] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] DH> > I love this: the mentality of the pro-"life" movement at work.
] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] DH> I think it's more likely that the poster is pro-choice, since it's
] DJD> ] DH> obvious that s/he embraces the repulsive notion that human life
] DJD> ] DH> can be killed arbitrarily.
] DJD> ]
] DJD> ] Bravo, Doug!  Touche'!  (Is there a better net.standard way of writing
] DJD> ] "e"-accent aigu without having to say "e'"?... Guess not).
] DJD> ]
] 
] DJD> I think that will here has shown clarity of vision in
] DJD> supporting DearOldDoug's premise that Killing a ProChoicer,
] DJD> by ProCoicers is a reasonable assumption....
] 
] Whoa, wait a second there, Drieux....
[ deletions ] 
] At any rate, I was *only* saying "Touche'" because he was giving a
] stereotypical answer about "Pro choicers" in response to a stereotypical
] comment about "pro lifers".
] 
] I was only saluting his reply, not his stance.

will, 

still new to these parts, eh?

I will defer to the 'archivers' the matter of listing
those 'alledged' "ProLifers" who have come out openly AntiGay... 

So the 'stereotype' is a rather clearly 'documented feature'[1]
of those who are AntiAbortionists....

Unfortunately AOEXY@ASUACAD.BITNET is unaccessible at this
point to clarify his position....

And I am likewise curious about DearOldDoug's presumption
about this matter as well.....


I am NOT going to hold my breath that he will clarify his
position on this matter....

ciao
drieux

[1] noting that the FEATURE is document seperates it
from the catagory of 'bug' that can be fixed in the
next rev of the code....



-- 
I Do Not Believe in .sig files
as they are such a Known Waste Of BandWidth,
And Therefore Not a Morally UpRight Choice.
But I Can See the HideousHienousHandOfHeteroSexualityBehindItAll.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: mstrange@alfred.carleton.ca (N E N Strangelove)
Subject: Moderated?
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:05:15 GMT

I am compiling a directory of networked resources for social work
studies [2nd edition]. I would like to include alt.abortion.inequity. I
would appreciate a *brief* description [2-3 lines max.] and I need to
know whether the group is moderated.

Thanks in advance,

Natalie Strangelove

PS\Please email me directly, as I am not subscribed to the group.
Xref: sparky alt.hurricane.andrew:44 rec.pets:2959 rec.pets.cats:10535 rec.pets.herp:3212 rec.pets.dogs:10445
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew,rec.pets,udel.bull,rec.pets.cats,rec.pets.herp,rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Pets need help in FL!!!
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:34:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Sep2.153416.14652
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep2.142452.20345@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> norteman@tnpubs.enet.dec.com (Karen Norteman) writes:

>In article <1992Aug29.014556.3783@udel.edu>, hartman@dewey.udel.edu (Nancy Hartman) writes...
 
>>Hurricane Andrew has left *MANY* pets hurt and homeless.  Since I'm sure
>>that pet care is not eligible for federal help, we all need to chip in.

>    A local vet has volunteered to help her out with taking care of all
>    these animals, but his practice was completely wiped out by the
>    hurricane.  These folks really need supplies, but money is nice too.

What is the most cost-effective way to help?  Are there supplies available
to be purchased within a reasonable distance, if we send money?  Or would
someone whose group is coordinating shipments, be willing to purchase food
or supplies if we sent them money?  (I know that's a lot of responsibility
and requires an element of trust.)  But if (for example) I could donate
$100, I would rather the folks in Florida get as close to $100 worth of
supplies as possible, rather than $70 worth of supplies that cost $30 to
ship.  Still, $70 worth of supplies will do more good than $100 cash if
there's nothing to buy with it.  Suggestions?

Roberta
...and the DoberPuppies
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew,rec.pets,udel.bull,rec.pets.cats,rec.pets.herp,rec.pets.dogs
From: gregs@slc.slac.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: Re: Violence in FL??? (Re: Pets need help in FL!!!)SKIP/NEWSGROUP
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:39:02 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <1992Sep2.025942.29912@usl.edu>, tlb2665@usl.edu (Thomas L. Burleigh) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep1.192220.16730@sequent.com>
>    schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis) writes:
> 
> ... (stuff deleted) .....
> 
>>We thought it
>>interesting that there were no reports of looting in Louisiana.  And
>>couldn't figure out why in one place but not in another.
> 
>  Found it rather interesting too.  Our governor, Edwin Edwards (D),
> attributes this to our heritage, strong sense of community, and strong
> Christian background here in these parts.  He may be on to something,
> but.......
> 
>  Here in Louisiana, we didn't have a metropolis the size of Miami bite the
> dust.  Also, I noticed that our National Guard was *immediately* mobilized
> to keep the peace in the affected areas (towns much smaller than Miami!).
> Don't what role the Florida Nat. Guard played in the immediate aftermath
> over there. Maybe someone over there could clue us in. Also, the LA-ARNG is
> (was) one of the Desert Storm NGs. We had a whole brigade of infantry
> training up for it. (Of which, I was a member.)  The experience probably
> led them to mobilize more effectively. (Can't say for sure, got out just 3
> months ago. :)
> 
>  Personally, I find that most people here think of such things as looting
> and mass violence as pure bullsh*t.  Much better off being laid-back and
> just doing what you gotta do.. :)
> 
>  [Insert standard apologies for hurt feelings here.]
> 
> 
> -- 
>  _____           _                         | InterNet: tlb2665@usl.edu
>    |   _  __    |_|     __  |  _  .  _  |_ | Voice: (318) 232-8298
>    |  | | |||   | | | | | ' | |-' | |_| | ||"Reality is a collective
>    '  '-' '''   '-' '-' '   ' '-' ' ,_| ' '|hunch." -- Lily Tomlin
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew,rec.pets,udel.bull,rec.pets.cats,rec.pets.herp,rec.pets.dogs
From: pdsmith.mitre.org (Pat Smith)
Subject: Re: Pets need help in FL!!!
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:14:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.175455.6752@EE.Stanford.EDU>, trish@isl.Stanford.EDU (Patricia Halloran) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug29.014556.3783@udel.edu> hartman@dewey.udel.edu (Nancy Hartman) writes:
> >
> >Hurricane Andrew has left *MANY* pets hurt and homeless.  Since I'm sure
> >that pet care is not eligible for federal help, we all need to chip in.
> >
> >Please send donations of any kind of animal care products (bowls, food, 
> >shampoo, hairball laxative, flea control products, or even used towels
> >and blankets) or a monetary donation to:
> >
> >North County Humane Society
> >185 East Indian Town Rd.
> >Suite 211
> >Jupiter, FL  (I don't have the zip code)
> >
> 
>    ****Zip Code for Jupiter, FL = 33458

I called down there last night and was told the zip code was 33477.  Now I am
concerned that the parcel I sent may be delayed.
> 		    ^^^^^^^^^^^   ^^^^^
> 
> >(407) 747 - 1598
> >
> >- Nancy Hartman
> >
> 
> Thank you Nancy.
> 
> 
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
From: casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew Ravages South Florida
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:31:53 GMT


>>Have any other nations offered aid to the US so far?

>Why should they?

After the 1989 EQ, aid was offered to the Bay Area (San Francisco being the
home of many consulates) from several nations, including the Soviet Union.
It's just kind of a nice gesture.
From: gregs@slc.slac.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: Re: Violence in FL???
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:40:00 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <1992Sep2.025942.29912@usl.edu>, tlb2665@usl.edu (Thomas L. Burleigh) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep1.192220.16730@sequent.com>
>    schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis) writes:
> 
> ... (stuff deleted) .....
> 
>>We thought it
>>interesting that there were no reports of looting in Louisiana.  And
>>couldn't figure out why in one place but not in another.
> 
>  Found it rather interesting too.  Our governor, Edwin Edwards (D),
> attributes this to our heritage, strong sense of community, and strong
> Christian background here in these parts.  He may be on to something,
> but.......
> 
>  Here in Louisiana, we didn't have a metropolis the size of Miami bite the
> dust.  Also, I noticed that our National Guard was *immediately* mobilized
> to keep the peace in the affected areas (towns much smaller than Miami!).
> Don't what role the Florida Nat. Guard played in the immediate aftermath
> over there. Maybe someone over there could clue us in. Also, the LA-ARNG is
> (was) one of the Desert Storm NGs. We had a whole brigade of infantry
> training up for it. (Of which, I was a member.)  The experience probably
> led them to mobilize more effectively. (Can't say for sure, got out just 3
> months ago. :)
> 
>  Personally, I find that most people here think of such things as looting
> and mass violence as pure bullsh*t.  Much better off being laid-back and
> just doing what you gotta do.. :)
> 
>  [Insert standard apologies for hurt feelings here.]
> 
> 
> -- 
>  _____           _                         | InterNet: tlb2665@usl.edu
>    |   _  __    |_|     __  |  _  .  _  |_ | Voice: (318) 232-8298
>    |  | | |||   | | | | | ' | |-' | |_| | ||"Reality is a collective
>    '  '-' '''   '-' '-' '   ' '-' ' ,_| ' '|hunch." -- Lily Tomlin
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew,fl.general