From: morley@Apple.COM (John Morley)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Summary: ... and the flames rose higher ...
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:10:48 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <lamontg.711858404@milton>, lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
> 
> Jesus Fucking Christ.  Is there one single fucking person on this goddamn
> net that has half the brain to realize that not only is our mind
> *psychological* but its also *biochemical*?  

Lets see now, where to begin.  For starters your opening sentence is somewhat
irrelevant, unless your are trying to describe the auto-erotic exploits of a
spiritual leader from 2,000 years ago :-}

Next you question whether any of the readers/contributors to this newsgroup
are endowed with a full complement of the mushy grey matter that is host to
the electro-chemical reactions that drive the collection of tissues that make
up the body.  I would give most people the benefit of the doubt on that point
as it is difficult to operate the requisite devices necessary to read or post
to netnews without a full complement of brain function :-}

But seriously, I think the key point where I differ with you is that I cannot
believe that my mind is a product of the physical processes going on within
my body.  There are many elegant expositions which I could cite to back up
this statement, but the most convincing proof is direct experience.  Next time
you find yourself in an expanded state of awareness (regardless of how you get
there), ask yourself if the thing staring at you in the mirror is yourself.

> 
> You've got some truely fucking brilliant opinions.

You're too kind.

> Ah, so someone who has a genetically inherated metabolic disorder
> (specifically something that > is related to gamma-ammunobutric acid in some
> way, and most likely something like an anxiety disorder) has "the power to
> change their beliefs and consequently their behavior".

My statements were in response to a discussion about the effectiveness of
12 step type rehabilitation programs for managing substance abuse problems.
You seem intent on suggesting physically caused mechanisms for these problems,
an explanation which I believe to be valid but only for a relatively small
number of persons that suffer from these problems.  For that group, neither
12 step programs nor any other non-physical treatment is going to correct the
cause of their problem.  HOWEVER, if I were unfortunate enough to have a
physically caused problem such as you describe, I would much rather view it as
a problem afflicting my body rather than a definition for who I am.

> Thats just really really brilliant.  They don't have any kind of psychological
> way to change their behavior.  The only way their going to change their
> behavior is through a chemical mechanism because their problem is entirely
> 100% chemical.  They're going to be alcoholics.  And there is no goddamn
> way they are going to stop giving importance to the beliefs that motivate
> that behavior.

You just contradicted yourself.  First you say the problem is 100% chemical,
then you say the beliefs motivate the behavior.  Which is it?  If it is a
chemical problem, it will require a chemical solution.  If it is a problem
brought about by erroneous beliefs, then the beliefs will have to be re-
examined.

> "Anxiety attacks?  Ah, I think they're actually not important and not a
> problem in my life...  so, I think I'll just stop using alcohol and have
> fun with my anxiety attacks..."  Yeah, right.

Anxiety is an emotion, not a physical condition.  Most people experience this
emotion when they are confronted with a series of conditions which they cannot
control.  It is certainly possible to be in a situation where your body suffers
from physical conditions beyond anyone's control, and anxiety can be a natural
response to those conditions.  But it is not the only possible response.  It
is possible to suffer from any or all ailments known to man and still remain
in a state of mental composure.  However this is nearly impossible when one
is absolutely convinced that their existence begins and ends with the
adventures of the physical body.

> Get a *clue* that all people are not made equally.

I got a clue long ago.  There are certainly no two bodies that were ever
made absolutely equal.  But people are inherently equal, dare I say identical,
in every respect that is meaningful in the greater scope of things.

> *PLEASE*.
> 
> "Everyone carries with them the antidote..."  *snort*

I think you've been doing too much coke Lamont.  You don't snort the antidote,
you become it.

*******************************************************************************
* Std Disclaimer:   My opinions are mine.        |  Billboard seen next to a  *
*                   Apple's opinions are Apple's.|  cemetary said:            *
*                   Sometimes they are similar.  |  "If you were dead,        *
*                   Sometimes they are not.      |   you'd be home by now."   *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.drugs