HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anil@CS.TITECH.AC.JP
Subject: Re: Mourinng customs
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 12:12:55 GMT

Ther's a really good comedy called "osoushiki" by the same person who directed
Marusa no Onna I believe. I don't know if it contains any info about the
relligous differences..but it was quite funny! (In japanese).
It gave a me a good insight to Japanese funerals.
Anil
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rir@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (robert.i.rosenthal)
Subject: JAPANESE SPEECH
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:23:24 GMT


To All Japanese Culture Group Members:

Do you speak Japanese?  Was it the first language you learned as a child?
If so, AT&T Bell Laboratories would like a sample of your voice to help
us analyze and understand the statistical characteristics of Japanese
speech.

We are conducting a research program that may make it possible to identify
Japanese speech and automatically connect a caller to an interpreter who
can provide translation service and telephone assistance.


                Please Call:  1-800-645-0348


This toll-free call will take only a few minutes.  Your recorded voice
will help us build a statistical model of Japanese speech.  We think you
will find the call interesting.

If you have family or friends who speak Japanese as their native language
please ask them to call as well.

There is no charge for the call and you may call at any time, daytime, evenings,
or weekends.

Bell Laboratories
Speech Architecture Group
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mathias@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU ("Gerald B. Mathias")
Subject: Re: kanji of the day #30
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:40:49 GMT

Wouldn't strokes 13 and 14 normally precede #12, as with the character
for `ku' "ward, division"?
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield)
Subject: language question
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:49:55 GMT

I think my mind is going, especially during thesis-writing. 
Anyway, is "...shite imasu" right for "knowing"?
What I'm trying to say, is... 
If I want to say "do you know what time he will return", would
"kaeru jikan wo shite imasu ka" be ok? (do you know the return time)? For 
some reason, this doesn't look right now, but I thought that was how it 
was said.
  Also, what is the word for "everybody"?  (subete no hito?  Hmm, isn't 
there a single word?)  As in "everybody drives fast", or "almost 
everybody likes to go to the beach", etc.
  Pleas, what is the expression for "everybody" and "almost everybody". 
Thaks1@
:::::Larry:::::

--
Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: more on fluency
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:55:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: Tomobiki.MS-C.713750104.377401575.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

Mark Rowe sets as his goal being `able to carry on a normal
conversation without embarassing [himself] or offending others.'

Hmm -- I would think this is one of the hardest possible things to
achieve!!!

It requires more than mere fluency in the language -- it also requires
a detailed an intimate knowledge of idioms, body language, social
mores, rituals.  Considering how many times native Japanese contrive
to embarass themselves and offend others in the course of normal
conversation due to an accidental violation of some trivial rule, a
mere hen-na gaijin is really setting his sights high here!  ;-)

I think that what happens when you become more knowledgable is that
you become much more (painfully) aware of the number of times you have
embarassed yourself or offended others.  What's more, the more
knowledgable you are perceived as being, the less forgiving native
Japanese seem to become when you blow it.  ;-)

However, console yourself with this: ignorance is curable, but
stupidity is not.  If one is not fundamentally stupid, one can hope to
do something about one's ignorance.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: NEED HELP FOR KANJI SOFTWARES--*****************
From: papillou@sc2a.unige.ch
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:46:31 +0200
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland

NEED HELP FROM THE MASTER MIND !!!!!!!!!!!!

     I WOULD LIKE TO USE A SOFTWARE,AN EASY-TO USE-  ONE, WHICH SHOULD
      BE ABLE TO WRITE KANJI AND KANAS......
          
          AS I SHOULD BE USING SUCH SOFTWARE FOR MY EXAM PREPARATION,
             I WOULD  G R E A T L Y  APPRECIATE ALL ADVICE AND INFORMATION!!


          NAME OF SUCH SOFTWARE '"
          IS IT EASY TO USE
          WHERE CAN I GET IT   -- BY FTP OR OTHER MEANS--
          IS IT COMPATIBLE WITH MERE PC (IBM, OLIVETTI....)
            WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENT TO MAKE IT WORK ACCURATELY ...


                DO NOT HESITATE TO CONTACT ME....






     STEPHANE PAPILLOUD              PAPILLOU@SC2A.UNIGE.CH
                                     PAPILLOU@CGEUGE52



              DOMO ARIGATO GOZAIMASU!!! GAMBATTE KUDASAI
From: ecovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: `fluency in Japanese'
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:02:07 GMT
Organization: Under Construction, San Diego

> =} . Can you hold a conversation without being consciously aware of what
> =}   language you are speaking, and in particular have your partner switch the
> =}   language several times in the course of the conversation without you
> =}   being consciously aware of the switch?
>
>   I moved this one out because it doesn't seem to apply to the situation
>at hand.  If one is monolingual then the above might be possible, but for
>a bilingual IMHO it is impossible.  So all those of us non-native speakers
>who now speak Japanese became unfluent in our native languages?
>
>(switching gives me no problem, but even when I speak in English I am
> glaringly aware that I am speaking in English)

	Hmmm. I don't know about this one.. I am bilingual, but I
can sometimes watch TV or overhear conversations without being
conciously aware that I am using one language or the other one.
Maybe because there wasn't a large amount of time between learning
the two, I tend to see everything as just "language" and not really
care which one I am using. Interesting thing to think about. Perhaps
a related item is that when I am talking with my bilingual friends
or writing letters to them, I will often switch languages
frequently, sometimes in the middle of sentences, and it doesn't
bother me at all. Then sometimes people will tell me to stop it
because I am confusing them and only then do I realize I am doing
that bad habit again. 

	When I can hear or think sentences like 
"Asita I can't go yinwei kono report wo teisyutu sinakya ikenai no"
and not think anything of it, I know I am somehow messed up. ^_^

	Maiko Covington     ecovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Uum - almost got it running...
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:10:45 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>If you are working with X11 (R4 *or* R5) you can get a better conversion
>environment using either kterm(kinput2) and/or exterm(xwnmo).  Both are
>superior to running umm inside a kterm.  

Well, does anyone know how to use kinput2 or preferably, kinput?
(with kinput2 I have to build it myself - last time it took a complete
day to figure that part out)

Kinput seems to be unable to communicate with wnn, and kinput2 was
sorely lacking in the documentation department.

If anyone figures out uum, I would MUCH rather use that than to debug
X11 code.  It really doesn't matter if it has very few features, since
I would only use it with xjdic (which isn't really an X program) since
I can use nemacs for everything else.   (if someone can get xjdic to
run inside nemacs, that'll solve all my problems :-)
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - Brought to you by the 'Elvis in 92' committee.
From: burress@twics.co.jp (Tim Burress)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: GENJI MONOGATARI
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:46:08 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

In article <9208190924.AA22725@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, santos@MICKEY.AI.KYUTECH.AC.JP (Rafael Santos) writes:
> I want to read it [Genji Monogatari], but just to get some feelings about OLD
> Japanese literature. If somebody have some comments, ideas, suggestions,
> please...

It is well worth the struggle.  I found that after spending so much time with
it, I really had a warm feeling for the characters, especially the women.  My
own recommendation is to read the Seidensticker translation, and be sure to 
read the entire text.  If you stop short, you'll miss a lot.

A lot of the older texts tend to be rather formulaic, but there are gems that
stand out.  Try _The Pillow Book_ [Makrua no Soushi] by Sei Shonagon.  It's
not a story, but rather simple chronicle of things that happened, or lists of
things that occurred to her.  Or _As I Crossed A Bridge of Dreams_ by Lady
Sarashina [Sarashina Nikki].  Both are available from Penguin.

I like the poetry of Izumi Shikibu very much.  Also Ono no Komachi.  Look for
a translated collection of both called _The Ink Dark Moon_.

I think that following the progression of literary development is an excellent
way to get a handle on the way any society has developed.
From: stueber@VAX.MPIZ-KOELN.MPG.DBP.DE
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: kanji of the day #32
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

KANJI OF THE DAY # 32

                    1***                5***
        2*      **********    6*    **********
        **********            ********
        ****            **    ****            **
        ****3***************  ****7***************
        ****    4***          **      8***
        ****    ****        ****      ****
        **      ****        **        ****
      ****      ****      **          ****
      **
    **      9***10************************
  **        ****                      ****
            ****                      ****
            ****11************************
            ****                      ****
            ****                      ****
            ****12************************
            ****                      ****
            ****                      ****
            ****13************************
                  14**
                ********        15********
            ********                  ********
      ******                              ****

(Numbers indicate order and beginning of strokes)

JIS      = 2571 (serial number)
shiftJIS = 8EBF (hexcode)
NELSON   = 4518
MIYAMOTO = 15-290
KUNZE    = 69-19

   OnYomi: SHITSU, SHICHI
  Kunyomi: tada(su) - ask, demand, question.

Mnemonics:  "Weight of a coin"

Derivation:

              ****          ****
      **********    **********
      **            **
      ************  **************  <-- two axes (used as weights)
      **    **      **    **
    ****    **    **      **
  ****
        ********************
        **                **
        ********************  <-- sea shell used for money
        **                **
        ********************
        **                **
        ********************
          **            **    <--- feet of the shell
    ******                ******

Compounds:

SHITSUmon   -  question
soSHITSU    -  makings, quality
SHICHIya    -  pawnshop
hitoJITSU   -  hostage

SHITSU signifies more "quality,substance,to inquire,simple and honest"
SHICHI is used for "pawn"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone requesting old versions of the "Kanji of the Day"-messages should
address his/her wish in an e-mail to me directly and not to the net.
I tried in vain to interpret the e-mail of some users from their net messages.
(i.e. kutluk@language-linguistics.umist.uk  did not work).
If I get direct mail, I can use REPLY to send old versions.

"Chie wa tomi ijo"  -- Wisdom is above wealth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurt Stueber
e-mail: stueber@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
Tel:  +49-221-5062537
Fax:  +49-221-5062513

This is Nr. 0032
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: question about wakarimasen/shirimasen usage
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:11:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.184736.28046@news.acns.nwu.edu> craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.061208.12030@actrix.gen.nz> Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>>Use wakarimasen when someone asks you a question which you don't know the
>>answer to. 

>>Use shirimasen when you are in a social situation demanding a super polite
>>response. 

>I believe the distinction is somewhat more subtle than that.  The
>use of wakarimasen implies the inability of one's own mental processes
>to yield a solution/answer.  The use of shirimasen implies that one
>has not received the information from outside.  Thus, if a student in
>class doesn't understand something the teacher has said, he would use
>wakarimasen.  The use of shirimasen in this situation would imply that
>the teacher had not given him the relevant information and could be
>construed as an insult.

I was told that under almost all circumstances, you can use "wakarimasen", but
that "shirimasen", in additon to the situation you outline above, can be
construed to imply not only don't you know, but you don't care, under some
circumstances.

Additional caveat on the use of the word "wakarimasu": if you are explaining
something to someone who is (nominally, anyway) your superior, do NOT ask
"Wakarimasu ka?" to determine if your boss understands. This can imply a lack
of mental faculties on the part of the listener. Supposedly, "Ii 'n desu ka?"
is a more proper way to proceed.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: lunde@adobe.com (Ken Lunde)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Announcing the release of 3 tools!
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:59:54 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


     I just wanted to let you all know that the 3 tools I just
released are now available at FTP site msi.umn.edu (128.101.24.1)
in the pub/lunde/C directory as

jcode.c
jchar.c
jconv.c

I also have the Macintosh ports as binhexed files at the same
FTP site in the pub/lunde/mac directory as

jcode-16.hqx
jchar-13.hqx
jconv-23.hqx

If you do not have FTP access, please feel free to send me a
request.
     Thanks go to Jason Molenda for putting the files at the
FTP site for me.

-- Ken R. Lunde
   Adobe Systems Incorporated
   Japanese Font Production
   lunde@adobe.com
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: kilpatri@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (John A. Kilpatrick)
Subject: Japanese IBM fonts
Originator: kilpatri@nextnet
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:17:45 GMT

Hi!  I am looking for some Japanese fonts that I can use inside Windows 3.1.
Specifically, kana fonts (hiragana and katakana).  I have Shoraei which is
a hiragana font, and I really need a katakana font (if you write anime
in hiragana people think you are really stupid).  I would prefer True Type
fonts, but I can also use Adobe Type 1 fonts (I have a friend who can
convert them to true type).  And I would really like plain fonts...the
hiragana font I have now (Shoraei) is kinda fancy...I would like a sort of
Helvetica set of hiragana and katakana.  If you can help me please email me:
kilpatri@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu
Thanks,
-- 
*******************************************************************************
*"I gotta fly like a duck.......... |Alt. lyrics for "Back to Paradise" from  *
* I gotta run like a wounded badger"|Gundam0083[kilpatri.nextnet.ccs.csus.edu]*
*******************************************************************************
From: mzw_t@hpjsdo.kobe.hp.com (Takashi Matsuzawa)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:22:00 GMT
Subject: Re: sumimasen vs arigatou?
Organization: Yokogawa Hewlett-Packard, Ltd.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan

In sci.lang.japan, lenam@ausch.msk.su (Maslova Elena R.) writes:

>    It raised a puzzling question for me:
> in what case is better to say arigatou (thank you) and in what case -
> sumimasen (thank you)? Can it be that they are used both simultaneously
> in one situation? :-)

You can use both in place of "thank you."  Of the two, I feel
"sumimasen" more polite.

Also, you can use "sumimasen" in place of "excuse me."  You can
speak to a Japanese "Sumimasen, ..." so that she will turn to you.

>    Also I've noticed that japanese often says last phrase on the
> phone - "sumimaseeeen". Is it something like "good bye" or really
> apologize?

I do not hear this.  More often heard is the word "siturei-simasu."
The literal meaning is "I am impolite to you," but it means "good
bye."

---
Takashi Matsuzawa
Japan SDO, APPO, Hewlett-Packard Company
TEL: +81 3-3335-8220, HP-Telnet: 800-5847 (Japan), 364-5847 (HP-Wide)
FAX: +81 3-3335-6454, Internet: mzw_t@yhp.co.jp (Japan), mzw_t@yhp.hp.com (Others)








Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: MOORJANI@USDCSV.ACUSD.EDU
Subject: going to Japan
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14: 02:55 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:03:26 GMT

I begin graduate studies at Sophia University (Jochi Daigaku) next month and
would like to gather as much info as possible before I go.  Please let me
know how to join the nihongo list.

Thanks,
Deepak Moorjani
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: fester@etorofu.island.COM ()
Subject: Re: `fluency in Japanese'
Originator: fester@etorofu
Organization: Island Graphics, Marin County, California
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:34:05 GMT

In article <MS-C.713728374.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>The problem with Mark Rowe's definition [`anyone who can converse in Japanese
>with an average native Japanese person at a normal rate of speech and in a
>smoothly flowing manner...where each understands what is being said would be
>fluent in Japanese'] is that it is too easy to stretch that definition to
>cover a multitude of individuals who are merely capable of making themselves
>understood.

>Someone who can speak a kind of pidgin Japanese could speak `in a smoothly
>flowing manner' and `be understood' but can not be considered to be fluent in
>Japanese.  Such a person is fluent in pidgin, which is a different thing
>entirely.  My experience suggests that many self-proclaimed `fluent in
>Japanese' individuals are in fact fluent speakers of pidgin.

>Here are some of the things I consider important:
> . Can you hold an *extended* conversation on the telephone (long enough to
>   run out of pattern sentences and having to compose your own) without the
>   other person having a clue that you aren't a native speaker?

Yes, unless they ask me my name.

> . Can you hold a conversation without being consciously aware of what
>   language you are speaking, and in particular have your partner switch the
>   language several times in the course of the conversation without you being
>   consciously aware of the switch?

I'm unclear why someone would switch languages on you in the middle of a 
conversation unless they already knew you were fluent in more than one language.
I HAVE done some simultaneous interpretation if that is what you mean.

> . Can you read a newspaper or technical report?

Yeah, but that is the easiest part of all; technical language is very straight-
forward (BTW, by this definition, my mother-in-law is NOT fluent).

>These are some of the things I consider to be the earmark of fluency, and what
>I think only a handful of people can accomplish.

In any event, I consider myself moderately fluent, and I meet (or met) these
3 criteria (though, as noted, I have relatives that fail the technical reading
tests). I have met many people who were very much better than me at these
things. If, as you state, there are only about a dozen people who are truely
fluent, I claim to personally acquainted with half of them.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: yash@phonon.uwaterloo.ca (Yashraj Bhatnagar)
Subject: WANTED -- HELP WITH TRANSLATION
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:08:37 GMT

I have a copy of a scientific paper from the japanese Journal of Vaccum Science
and Technology which I need to get a hang of VERY URGENTLY. Anybody with the
correct background, and of course the ability to read Japanese, with a half hour
or so which he/she can afford to devote to this request will be gastronomically
rewarded for their assistance. I am looking for people in the Kitchener/
Waterloo area.


Thanks. 

Please reply to this EMail address or call ext. 5313.
YASH.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina)
Subject: Re: question about wakarimasen/shirimasen usage
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:47:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.061208.12030@actrix.gen.nz> Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>
>Use wakarimasen when someone asks you a question which you don't know the
>answer to. 
>
>Use shirimasen when you are in a social situation demanding a super polite
>response. 
>
>-- 
>Peter Weekes          PARADOX Consultant             |
>Box 7163              Parasitologist                 | 
>Wellington South      Epidemiologist                 |   
>New Zealand           Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz |           


I believe the distinction is somewhat more subtle than that.  The
use of wakarimasen implies the inability of one's own mental processes
to yield a solution/answer.  The use of shirimasen implies that one
has not received the information from outside.  Thus, if a student in
class doesn't understand something the teacher has said, he would use
wakarimasen.  The use of shirimasen in this situation would imply that
the teacher had not given him the relevant information and could be
construed as an insult.
       Craig.....
-- 
_______
Craig R. Bina, Asst. Prof.
Dept. of Geological Sci., Northwestern Univ.
Evanston, Illinois, craig@earth.nwu.edu