HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:26:12 GMT

ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>[The axles in my hubs, BTW, are 12mm-thick aluminum, and their
> maker, Bullseye, claims to have had a single bent axle in nearly
> 20 years of producing hubs with the same axles for tandems and mt.
> bike/BMX uses.  The ease with which I was able to change my axles,
> about 2 minutes start to finish, convinces me that they are well
> designed.]

A friend of mine just got some for his tandem.  They say they have
been making the hubs since 1976, introduced new axles for BMX in
1978, and since then they have seen two bent axles and no broken
ones.  I've gone through more than that in conventional steel axles.

I will echo Eric's praise for the design: it is simple and seems to
last well.  The axles come drilled and tapped for Allen-head bolts
(included) and you can use either the bolts or a conventional QR.
Allen-head bolts are also used in Phil Wood hubs, but you can't
switch back and forth on the Phils.

Allen-head bolts maybe don't make sense for racers, but I think they
are a good alternative for everybody else: they hold the wheel more
firmly than a QR, they can't be fiddled with by passers-by, a thief
needs to carry a tool to walk off with the wheel.  Yet with an Allen
wrechn you can remove the wheel in 15 seconds to fix flats, mount the
bike on a rack, stow it, etc.  Further, the Allen-head bolts plus an
Allen key is lighter than a standard QR and probably lighter than
fancy expensive QRs.

Bullseye hubs are simple but are as expensive as many other
high-quality hubs.  They seem to go for around $120/pr, more for hubs
in fancy colors (you can get hub parts in about a dozen colors, and
you can have each of the the three hub pieces made in a different
color e.g., red, white, and blue).

They use cartridge ``sealed'' bearings.  They claim they are a common
size and can be found in-stock in many bearing supply stores.  The
bearings are easy to remove and replace, but one is glued using
Loctite(tm) or the equivalent -- I really don't know why.  So to
replace the bearings, you're really supposed to have both the actual
bearing cartridges and the glue.

For gram freaks: A couple hours ago I weighed a 135mm-axle Bullseye
rear at 222g.  For comparison, that's on par with conventional road
rear hubs; the lightest hub I know of is a Hi-E front track hub at
about 85g.

Please direct followups to the appropriate place -- tech for design,
marketplace for comparisons.

		;-D oN  ( Bulls* hubs )  Pardo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Keywords: wheel, dish
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:52:38 GMT

In article <lyanyza.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <71629@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:

>>Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly identical
>>tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make it behave differ-
>>ently from a wheel with substantially higher-tensioned spokes on one side --
>>to a degree I could detect?

>Yep, it's your imagination. While the tension on the spokes is
>different, the loadings on the rim are the same.

	That isn't relevant; the rim is nearly rigid, it's the SPOKES
that can flex under stress.  Since the spokes' behavior is determined
by their tension, the tension difference changes the coupling
between the axle and rim (in particular, by making the response to
torque less stiff than for a symmetric wheel).

	John Whitmore
From: rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:25:26 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:

>I am amazed you all missed the most important innovation of all:

>** Biopace **

>It was on this innovation that Suntour, SR, Sugino, etc. publicly admitted
>that Shimano is #1, by blindly copying it.

Yup, an amazing --marketing-- invention. Despite a bit of searching back
when the thing came out I couldn't find a single scientific article showing
any advantage for the Biopace. It makes sense (sort of), and had nifty
marketing so lots of people bought it. Since people were buying it it had
to be copied by everyone. Some people who have it like it and swear by it,
but the same can be said about healing crystals, algae pills, and 
chiropracters; scientific inovation isn't the same thing as market appeal.

Rod Rempel - rrempel@sfu.ca
Department of Kinesiology, Simon Fraser University 
... if two million people do a stupid thing it's still a stupid thing.
From: crwg2707@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (R. Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:05:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bu0I4G.5tE
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (Latenser) writes:

>Note that toothpaste is also a nice abrasive.  ;-)

>latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu

I didn't think about this, my dive mask has a tempered glass lens so the
abrasives in the Crest didn't mean much.  I don't know if it is mean enough
to mess up a pair of cheap glasses.


Ride on, 
Raydude.

"Ray, a man unburdened by the rigors of coherent thought." 
          -a Brannonism quoted by George Heinz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: arnie@col.hp.com (Arnie Berger)
Subject: Re: Building a Bike Frame (from scratch)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:35:07 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

jkb@suned1.Nswses.Navy.Mil (John K Bunk) writes:
> Hi!
> 
> Has anyone ever built their own bicycle frame from scratch?  How much
> welding / brazing skills do you need?  Should I just forget about
> building my own frame unless I have megadollars equipment (rentals)
> and supplies?



   I have a similar question. Has anyone built their own frame without
   using jigs and fixtures. I've visited several people, both amateur
   and pro framebuilders, and all have a basic fixture jig of some type
   that they use to hold the tubing in alignment while they braze it 
   together. For me, constructing the fixturing necessary is the biggest
   roadblock to building my own frame. I'd like to hear from anyone
   who has done it without fixtures.

                                                 Arnie


  
-- 
Arnie Berger
arnie@hplsdvt
Telnet 590-5642
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Hybrid Bikes?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:49:04 GMT

les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>This thread and others dealing with equipment and services still do
>not belong in r.b.misc.  Please take this one to r.b.tech and use the
>"Followup to:" field to redirect responses to other mispostings.
>Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
>Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
>UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
I don't see how you're going to be able to keep doing this Les.  There are too
many newsgroups and the subjects are too confusing.  It'll be a full time job
trying to keep all of these people "straight".
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Mispostings
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:35:46 GMT

In response to my grumble about articles in the wrong newsgroup,
Terry Thiel writes:
>I don't see how you're going to be able to keep doing this Les.  There are too
>many newsgroups and the subjects are too confusing.  It'll be a full time job
>trying to keep all of these people "straight".

It is clear that a number of people disagree with your view that there
are now "too many newsgroups" or that they are "too confusing," though it
is certainly true that the new structure *is* too complex for some minds.
I, for one, will not miss those who are put off by this.

In any case, it is also clear that many people do not bother reading
the charters of newsgroups they join and instead just read them a bit
to determine by example what sorts of things go there.  In view of
that, in the formative stage of a newsgroup it is particularly
important to point out any general misposting patterns.  Failing that,
the distribution of articles might become chaotic, which would defeat
the purpose of subdivision.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pauls@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Knackered bottom bracket thread
Reply-To: pauls@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:32:03 GMT

Patrick Haggard writes
| 
| I have stripped the thread on the bottom bracket that the fixed cup
| screws into.  As a result the fixed cup is hanging loose, and the 
| axle is wobbly.  Can anyone suggest how I might get the thread
| rethreaded?


If the threads are just a little screwed up and you can't get the cup  
threaded in, a bottom bracket thread chaser is what you need.  Var and  
Campy are the better ones, but any piloted-style chaser will be accurate  
and will avoid cross-threading problems.

If the threads are so mashed that after they are chased the cup does not  
stay tight, you can do:

1. add loctite or some other thread locking compound to see if that will  
keep it in, or

2. ream the shell and rethread it as Italian <-- the extreme solution, but  
not unusual for a really thrashed shell, or a shell that has been  
ovalized.
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:25:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug28.180314.18870@rsg1.er.usgs.gov> junger@rsg1.er.usgs.gov (John Unger) writes:
>
>Don't confuse elastic modulus and yield strength; they are two very
>different properties of materials.
>
>Elastic modulus (Young's modulus in this case) is the constant that
>relates stress and strain in a material. This value does not change
>much in alloy steels.
>
>Yield strength is the amount of stress that can be applied to a material
>before it begins to deform permanently (doesn't return to its original
>shape when the stress is removed). Yield strength varies greatly among
>different alloy steels. 
>

John, I would like to get this whole idea straight. Hy said that different
alloy tubings have different diameters and that's why they perform 
differently. Yet I recall building motorcycle frames with several
different alloys that all had the same OD and wall thickness.

Now if I understand you and Hy correctly, you are saying that the
higher strength alloys simply bend more before they take a permanent
bend. This would indicate to me that the _only_ advantage to using
expensive alloys is to save a very small percentage of the frame weight.

This would appear to mean that all these TSX tubing frames are
just so much hog wash. SL or SLX should be identically ridgid.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 00:02:37 GMT

>[Ongoing discussion of steel types vs. stiffness.]

On older bikes there was a fair variation in tubing diamters, and my
old 531-framed Motobecane Grand Jubilee had a seat tube enough smaller
in diameter that a front derailleur with a standard 2-piece clamp would
`bottom' before it was fully tight.  Judging by the same clamp on a
subsequent bicycle, the tubing was at least 1mm undersize, possibly
more.  Somebody at a bike shop at the time told me the French were
notorious for playing with tubing diameters.  Enough to see with the
naked eye?  Not mine.  Enough to make a difference?

Tubing diameter makes a big difference in stiffness.  Torsional
stiffness of a tube increases at something like the 4th power of the
diameter, so a frame tube 2% larger in diamter (nominally 0.6mm) is 8%
stiffer, 4% larger in diameter (nominally 1.2mm) is about 17% stiffer
in torsion.  I don't know the relationship for bending stiffness, but
it, too, is nonlinear (though not so dramatically).

The difference in actual diameter of my frame tubes was small enough
that things like the paint color had a larger effect on my observed
estimate of the tubing diamter than the actual difference in diamter.

		;-D on  ( Non de Linear )  Pardo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Hubs built for straight spokes
Keywords: break flange hub spoke wheel
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:32:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.045541.2408@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel) writes:
>
>Today in the trusty rusty bike shop I saw hubs with ``flanges'' built
>for elbow-less headed spokes.  The ``flange'' is an N-pointed star
>Each hole is drilled to point tangentially from the flange to the rim.
>Each hole is countersunk for a spoke with a head but no elbow.
>
>The guy at the shop said the goal is to reduce spoke breakage.  He says
>most spoke failures happen at the elbow.  He said the design seemed
  A resonable solution for a problem that does not exist for well built
wheels.  I have problems with one wheel breaking spokes on the outside
(oppose freehub) right where the nipple engages the spoke.  As Jobst has
pointed out; the problem is most likely the straight drilled holes (Sun
medium depth aero rim) that force a bend right at the tension transfer 
point.  I would not expect a mfg to come up with a specific solution to
that problem but I would expect Sun to angle their spoke holes to 
prevent the problem (note: Nashbar US14, 32 hole - I have 3 of these rims
and only one has had the problem ie 4 broken spokes in 8,000 km).

> - I suspect there's more material in the ``flanges'' than in regular
>   hubs.  If some of that were put in to the spoke at the elbow, it
>   would probably reduce elbow breakage.
  There had better be because the bend is the tension transfer point and
when the spoke seats into the softer Al it distributes that force over
more area.  A straight spoke will have to do this thru the threading.  I
imagine that it will have to be improved over a normal elbow design for
the rear wheel because of the pedaling torque induced flex (radial
designs only as far as I can see; but who would use a radial rear wheel?).
  So what say you Jobst?
- Eric 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:12:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.162008.14837@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
>                 Slight problem: They fog up.  This only happens
>after stopping the bike, not while riding (once I've wiped them
>clear that is).  Is there a way to prevent this?  Do more expensive
>sets not have this problem?  Or should I just never stop? :)
>The lenses are clear and I use them almost exclusively off-road.
>
>...Joakim
>

I'm going to give some rain-x a try this weekend. I have the same problem when
I ride early in the morning and its cool. If I stop, my glasses fog, when I
ride they're fine. My glasses have the row of holes along the the top to vent
but it happens anyway. (I like the idea of the ivory soap, I'll try that on
the mirror tomorrow.)

NJC
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Difference between Shimano RX100 and 105 components
Date: 1 Sep 1992 20:43:29 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston

In article <1992Sep1.155632.10168@csc.ti.com> ericr@dadd.ti.com
regales us with bike-lust: 
>I've recently decided to buy an entry level racing bike and I've been
>somewhat overwelmed  by the marketplace.  I'm looking to spend around
>$500-$700.  In this price range, the big difference seems to be in
>the components.  

Maybe that's what the marketers would like you to believe.  Stick with
a proven bike brand that puts out a bike in your categroy.  What kind
of bike are you looking for?  Steep angles, short top-tube, relaxed
geometry, some combination with short chain stays?  All of these are
the primary considerations.  

How does that bike fit you??!!  If it feels like it is part of you and
you can't tell when you're on and when you're off, it is probably your
bike. 

>Almost everyone seems to suggest paying the extra $$$ for the Shimano
>105 components. 

I disagree.  
>However, nobody has been able to tell me exactly what the difference is 
>between the RX100 and the 105's.  

The 105SC, as best I have been able to determine, are essentially
RX100 with different finish and delcals. 

>... can someone provide a number for Shimano so that I might try
calling them directly?? 

Well, if you want marketing hype ...
Personally, I think you need to find the bike that's your bike.  The
frame will be with you for a long, long time.  The components will
break, wear out, be overcome by new fads, and a bazillion other
reasons you will find to replace them.

Look at Miyata, the Bridgestone RB-2, Bianchi, and Schwinn Paramount
PDG-series bikes.  There's enough design difference just between those
that you can spend the time and energy you could have spent fighting
the components battle in deciding what kind of frame you want.

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Spoke breakage
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:14:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: utxvms.1992Sep4.121450.1
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

Over the last two months, I've had two spokes break at the angled area where
the spoke connects to the hub flange.  The bike is about 1.5 years old and
has been used primarily for commuting (a DB Apex).  Could this be a problem
with the DX hub, or is it typical for gobs of spokes to wear out at the 
same time?  The rim seems to be in good shape (rear wheel).  If the spokes
are indeed on their last legs, would it be worth it to replace all of them,
or should I also replace hub and/or rim?  I don't expect everyone to agree
as to solutions, but perhaps others have had experience with a sudden
plethora of spoke breakage.  Oddly enough, though I've had occasional spoke
failure on my 700c road bikes in the past, I've never experienced chain
reactions of this nature.

Curt

BTW, the two spokes which have failed (so far?) did so during normal city
street riding ... nothing a decent mtb shouldn't be able to handle.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 07:38:08 +0200
From: ianf@random.se (Armchair Nomad In Action)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Apparently-To: rnews@sunet.se
X-Hear: Sally's (Meg Ryan's) fake diner orgasm now available as plug-in
X-This: charger sound for the Apple PowerBook; reason enough to buy one
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.2b2
Organization: random design -- "Opinions, cheaply"
Summary: DIY recumbents
Subject: re:  Building a Bike Frame (from scratch)


  John K Bunk <jkb@suned1.Nswses.Navy.Mil> writes on
# Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 10:09:04 -0700
  regarding the subject matter:

> How much welding / brazing skills do you need?  Should I just
> forget about building my own frame unless I have megadollars
> equipment (rentals) and supplies?

  Megadollars aren't necessary.  Brazing skills are. Do not
  underestimate the steepness of the learning curve.  Make
  a "throw-away" frame first, then another.  After that --if
  you still have the energy-- you con move on to building the
  one that you are dreaming about.  Frame #-about-5 should be
  the accomplished product.


> In my case, I was considering building my own recumbent bike
> frame. I thought building my own bike may be fun, and I would
> learn much along the way.

  Oh,yes, no doubt about the first.  Absolutely no doubts about
  the latter.


> Also, if any books or magazine articles exist on the subject of
> frame building, please let me know!

  By far the best description of a DIY recumbent that I've seen
  is the article:

   "The ``Merkur'' long-wheelbase recumbent with rear suspension
    construction plan" by Werner Stiffel, translated by Theodor
    Schmidt in 'Human Power' vol.8 #2, pp4-16; (the technical
    journal of the IHPVA; P. O. Box 51255; Indianapolis, IN 46265).


  Other than that: join the HPV list (mail HPV-request@Sonoma.EDU)
  where recumbents are the order of the day.  Welcome!

  Good luck (you gonna need it, lots of it ;-))


--Ian "another future DIY recumbent builder/ owner/ demon rider" Feldman
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pauls@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Braze-on Question (threaded inserts)
Reply-To: pauls@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:10:51 GMT

Richard Foulk writes
[...]
| >I have both brazed in water bottle bosses and poped in riv-nuts
| >and find the brazing more satisfactory. Although you do lose paint,
| >the brazed in bosses won't turn. The riv-nuts can, making it almost
| >impossible to remove the cage. (They don't always turn, but if they
| >start they won't stop).
| >
| 
| Assuming it's really okay to drill holes in that area (is it?), how
| about just threading the holes?

It's no problem at all to drill holes down there.  How do you think Klein,  
Cannondale, Raleigh, etc get the threaded holes in their bikes?  The use  
Riv-nuts or Nut-serts.

Installing them takes a certain knack, and you have to be careful doing it  
if you want them to stay tight.  If installed properly, they won't come  
loose without lots of abuse or over-tightening of WB cage bolts.  The ones  
in mass-produced bikes sometimes come loose because they are installed  
sloppily.  Improper drilling of the hole can contribute to that.  Remember  
when you start that the frame has to be big enough to accommodate the  
drill in the main triangle (assuming DT or ST installation).  One can  
usually get the bolt back out even if the insert is spinning if the bolt  
was lubricated.  Just apply lateral pressure to the assembly while you are  
turning it and it will grab against the frame.  Once you get that out, you  
can retighten the insert with the installation tool, or you can drill out  
the insert and put in a new one.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Biopace Sprockets?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:43:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.093625.9287@mr.med.ge.com> hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:
>A few years back, there were some sprockets out called Biopace, I believe.
  Dead and gone.  Mainly marketing hype with no reproducable experiments to
show any benefit.  There were testomonials from people who said that they could
do a century 1/2 hour faster and that their knee pain was gone.  Simular things
were said after a return to round gears.  There may be some benefits at
extreamly low cadences (ie 40) but real cyclists rarely get below 90 or 95 rpm.
  There was also a simular thing for the crank.  The name eludes me now but
I think that Lon Haldon was pushing it.  It seems to have dissipeared into
obscurity as well.  Other methods of propelling a bike ie sliding saddle, 
saddle that goes up and down keep reappearing every now and then but the
high efficiency of a simple pair of gears and chain and its simplicity has
not been outdone. It may be that a continously variable type of transmission
will be possible but all designs that I have seen are limited in their gear
range.
  - Eric