HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wvenable@attunga.stats.adelaide.edu.au (Bill Venables)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: food
Date: 29 Jan 93 15:39:05
Organization: Department of Statistics, University of Adelaide
	<1993Jan27.205326.24910@emr1.emr.ca>
	<1993Jan28.111533.11516@rtf.bt.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: attunga.stats.adelaide.edu.au
In-reply-to: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk's message of 28 Jan 93 11:15:33 GMT

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Traub <traub@rtf.bt.co.uk> writes:

Michael> In article <1993Jan27.205326.24910@emr1.emr.ca>
Michael> thiessen@emr1.emr.ca (Tracy Thiessen) writes: 
Tracy> I disagree with you about Kerr, particularly in light of his book
Tracy> "Smart Cooking".  In it, he takes classic high-calorie foods and
Tracy> revamps them with reduced fat, meats and so forth.  The results are
Tracy> pretty good.
Tracy> 
Tracy> I'm not suggesting that this is diet food per se. But they are
Tracy> good recipes for those of us who love the fattening classics,
Tracy> but not the normal quantity of fat. I, for one, do intend to
Tracy> eat butter again some day.  And all six ounces of meat.

Michael> Well you are now talking about a "diet". The problem with diets is
Michael> that they don't work.  *Permanent* lifestyle changes are necessary
Michael> for sustained weight loss.  Dieting only succeeds in lowering your
Michael> metabolism and then foods you used to be able to eat pile on the
Michael> weight when you go off the diet.

I agree that permanent lifestyle changes are necessary, and unlike Tracy, I
do not intend to eat butter again, even someday, nor the "six ounces of
meat", either.  I know now I can't hack it.  Six ounces of steamed fish,
maybe.  However even under a changed lifestyle diet, I do hope someday to
make the food I eat palatable and reasonably interesting once again, and I
think that the sort of tricks referred to above can be useful here.

Apropos of tricks, back in the early 70s (were any of you kids alive then?
:-)) there was something of a fad for a then new style of French cooking
called "Cuisine Minceur".  I came across my old cuisine minceur cookbook a
little while back, and most of the recipes are really very good, low
calorie wise.  For example Beth Mazur's trick of saut\'eing in white wine
instead of oil is part of it.  If you come across a book in your library
with this phrase in the title you may find the suggestions therein very
useful.  More recently there has been something called a "Cuisine Sant\'e",
which despite it's name is much less healthy than minceur in my opinion.


--
___________________________________________________________________________
Bill Venables, Dept. of Statistics, | Email: venables@stats.adelaide.edu.au
Univ. of Adelaide, South Australia. | Tel: +61 8 228 5412  Fax: ...232 5670
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: annie@whoville.manassas.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: ww exchanges?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:03:07 GMT
Reply-To: kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Federal Systems Company
Keywords: need exchange info

In article <1993Jan26.041109.25965@cisco.com>, lol@cisco.com (Lol Grant) writes:
|> 
|> So floaters are really equivalent to the optional calories. I suspect

Well, not really.  Yes, they're extra calories, but according to
the leader at WW, you can equate "floaters" with "personal selections".

|> 
|> >In week 3 of WW, you'll get "Personal Selections" - these used to 
|> >be called floaters.
|> 

|> I believe that this is the "old" plan.  Originally, you didn't get
|> additional selections until the 3rd week.  In an attempt to simplify
|> all the choices people had to make in the beginning.

The old plan had "floaters" and I don't know during which week
you got them (I just started WW 3 weeks ago).  The new plan
has "personal selections", which start during week 3.

|> 
|> It was a stupid idea and they stopped doing it this way (at least in
|> the plan I was on, just last year). The reason it was stupid is that
|> in the first few weeks not only do you lose the most weight with the
|> least effort (so the last thing you need is a more restrictive diet)
|> but it's also the period when they lost the most people, because
|> starting a new diet regime is such tough going, so again it's exactly
|> the wrong time to make the diet extra restrictive. I don't know for a
|> fact that this is their reasoning, but they *have* stopped doing it
|> this way in the latest plans.

What have they stopped? Personal Selections? Those are very much still
there.

Thanks,
Brenda J. Molina                                     kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What must I do to convince you people?"		 "Die."
From: idg39@jester.usask.ca (Inez Gowsell)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: how much fruit and veggies?
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:59:38 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: jester.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]


Hi there.

I am trying to eat a little healthier on my own, no doctor sponsored
or organized diet plan.  I would like some advice on fruits and vegetables.

Peter Brooks mentions eating *lots* of fruit and vegetables per week.  I
like fruit much more than veggies, especially for snacking and because
apples and pears seem easier to buy (if I forget to bring from home) than
carrot sticks and celerey sticks.  

After all that intro, the question is, How much of each is recommended?
Can you eat lots of fruit and some vegetables, the other way around, or 
is it supposed to be balanced?

I am still having difficulty getting properly motivated and when I
do buy carrots and celery, I don't always take the time to cut them up,
or, if I do have them, I end up having salad dressing with them because
they are too bland.

Suggestions?  advice? 
Thanks for listening.

Inez
--
*************************************************************
| Inez Gowsell             | Oppenheimer built the bomb,    |
|                          | and now he's dead.             |
| Saskatoon, Saskatchewan  | Einstein was very, very smart, |
| Canada                   | but not enough not to be dead. |
|                          | Don't go into sciences,        |
| gowse340@skdad.usask.ca  | You'll end up dead.            |
|                          |          -The Arrogant Worms   |
*************************************************************
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:39:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Proform exercise machine
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

You might want to see if you can find a used sporting goods store.  I sold
a Schwinn Airdyne at a (franchised) place called "Play it again sports".
Think it went for 60% of retail, though the cross country ski machines
tended to go for more; they are more popular.

BTW, you can find a *lot* of equipment in the 'just barely used' range, as
people find that the foo-o-ciser is not what they really wanted.  I gave
the Schwinn a fair shot (I think), but eventually came to the realization
that stationary bicycling is less interesting than watching paint dry.  (As
a side-note, it works backwards from proper bicycling technique.  Force
goes up much faster as you pedal; I never analysed the curve, but it's
at least an X^2 factor.  This forces one to pedal slowly, like 60RPM.  I
prefer 80 to 100 on my real bike, and it's effectively impossible to
regear the Schwinn.)

In my humble opinion, if I were interested in getting that foo-o-ciser, I'd
find a gym that has something similar.  If using the foo-o-tron-4000 works
just fine, and you find yourself eager to hit the gym, then consider dropping
the bucks for the 'ciser.  In my case, on the rare occasions I hit the gym,
I'll do the stair machine.  Still, part of the attraction is the gym environment
like the additional people.  I would not get a stairmaster for home.

For what it's worth, the ski machines are the most popular for home (re)sales;
while treadmills beat bikes.  The owner wouldn't take rowing machines, so
you get the idea of the lasting attraction for most people.  (Yeah, we're all
quite different, so take all this with a grain or 3 of salt.)

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: annie@whoville.manassas.ibm.com ()
Subject: Losing Weight when Dumped :-) and other ramblings (was Re: Let me introduce myself)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:20:55 GMT
Reply-To: kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Federal Systems Company

In article <1993Jan21.154812.11950@chpc.utexas.edu>, jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:
[snipped]
|> 
|> Does this seem to fit the pattern out there?  For as long as you haven't
|> replaced that "missing person" in your life, you can keep up the diet and
|> exercise (it's filling a void?).  Mr. or Ms. Right shows up, and all the 
|> old bad habits come roaring back.
|> 

So, I should tell my mom to quit griping about losing weight and get a 
divorce? :-) :-) :-) great big huge mondo size smileys here.

So far, this hasn't proven true for me.  While I was dating Mr Right,
I lost weight (doing Nutri-System) and then gained most of it back
(after reaching maintenance on Nutri-System).  While gaining most of
it back, we got married, and now I'm at WW. I ahve much more hope
for keeping the weight off with WW than I did with Nutri-System.  NS just
feeds you special stuff - WW teaches you to eat normal stuff in the
right way.  (actually, I pretty much know how I'm supposed to be eating,
I just need the weekly visit because I need to know that "someone" is
watching me - kind of like when I used to take piano lessons - I 
never practiced if I knew the next weeks lesson was cancelled - but
practiced a lot if I knew I was going have to show what I did. - although
this didn't hold true when I got to learn Scott Joplin stuff - I really
liked that stuff so I learned it fast. Hmmmmm - I really like how it 
sounded, I really like how I look thin - maybe this'll work :-)

-- 
Brenda J. Molina                                     kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What must I do to convince you people?"		 "Die."
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: food
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:33:57 GMT

Keith F. Lynch (kfl@access.digex.com) wrote:
> Watch out for processed and baked foods.  Check the labels.  They put fat
> in almost everything.  Restaurants are a lost cause.

Oh no!  There's lots of good restaurants that are coming around to 
low-fat/non-fat eating.  Especially some of the poshier ones.  If you
want a good place to eat with a very healthy, low-fat menu, try eating
at a restaurant in a Hyatt hotel.  They have a wonderful menu.  

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit		San Diego, CA		cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
From: thiessen@emr1.emr.ca (Tracy Thiessen)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Should I try Weight Watchers?
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:52:32 GMT
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa

In article <1993Jan26.222053.15990@ra.msstate.edu> jonesk@ur.msstate.edu writes:
>OK, I've read this group for some time, but have only posted maybe once.
>But, when I saw the words Nutrisystem, I had to respond. I joined 
>Nutrisystem a few years ago and lost about 30 pounds. Obviously, I was
>overweight, but not so bad, compared to now. I fully blame Nutrisystem
>for giving me an eating disorder that I didn't have before. I'm now

What happened?>
>
>
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: annie@whoville.manassas.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: fat reduction
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 17:52:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Federal Systems Company

In article <1993Jan25.213255.3406@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>, xxjean@peridot.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeanetter Barnes) writes:
|> Hello everyone,
|> 
|> Thanks to all who responded to my post about how water does/doesn't aid in weight loss.  While reading your responses, I noticed that
|> many of you are a part of a formal weight loss program such as 
|> Weight Watchers, etc.  Well, I have about 20 lbs. to lose before the end of April (I am participating in a slimathon -- a fat-reduction contest), but can't seem to stick to a formal, calorie counting
|> diet.  About eight months ago, I participated in a 'Physicians 
|> Weight Loss' program that guaranteed a loss of 1 lb. per week
|> which worked out okay but I eventually deviated from the diet because of the slow progress rate.  However, I did not gain any of the
|> weight back.  Did any of you try just working out and cutting 
|> back on calories before joining WW?  If so, did you have any
|> success at all with this?  This is what I plan to do to reduce

Yes, I tried by myself - I think I need "big brother" watching over 
my shoulder for awhile. I had negative success :-) (i.e. gained weight,
clothes didn't fit, etc)

|> fat and hopefully lose the 20 lbs.  I've been working out (step
|> aerobics) 5 days a week, 1 hour a day for about 3-4 weeks and 
|> haven't noticed a change in my weight (not even 1 lb).  However,
|> I have noticed a difference in the way that my clothes fit, so 
|> maybe this is working after all.
|> 

That's what really counts - how your clothes fit, how healthy you feel,
how you emotionally feel about yourself.  
I could care less if I actually lose 20lbs - 
I just want my red suit (among other clothes) to fit nicely again.
And I *will* be back into that 2-piece swimsuit this spring :-)

Thanks,
Brenda J. Molina                                     kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What must I do to convince you people?"		 "Die."
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: barbaraj@sacajawea.csc.ti.com (Heart Dancer)
Subject: What's in a Name? (was: I need some advice -)
Reply-To: barbaraj
Organization: Computer Science Lab, Texas Instruments
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:44:45 GMT

In article <WVENABLE.93Jan20124536@attunga.stats.adelaide.edu.au>, wvenable@attunga.stats.adelaide.edu.au (Bill Venables) writes:
>> >>>>> "Margot" ==   <mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu> writes:
>> 
>> Margot> ...  So I guess what I'm suggesting is that we discourage the use
>> Margot> of anonymous postings in this group by not responding.  After all,
>> Margot> this is a support group, not free advice and the support goes both
>> Margot> ways...
>> 
   .... 
 
>> Yes.  I agree with "discourage", though, rather than "disallow".  I did
>> respond to one of these anonymous posts also, but made it clear I was not
>> at all comfortable in doing so.  However another person in private email to
>> me did point out some quite valid reasons persons might have for wanting to
>> remain anonymous (like your name is "Eagleburger" or something... - only
>> kidding!) so I think we should maintain our usual good manners in such
>> cases.  However in future I personally don't intend to respond in any way
>> to anonymous posts, above all I suggest noone should reply by email to such
>> a poster, (and I don't intend to say any more on the matter, either).


C'mon guys, your "control issues" are showing.  I don't see that
"wvenable" or "mprisco" is much more revealing to the net at large
than "an6780".  Login names really tell very little about the person
posting, and what they do tell has even less to do with the purpose of
this newsgroup.  Suppose someone with a login "chris" or "kim" or
"robin" from some public access site posts to the net.  How do I even
know that your real names are Margot and Bill?  Pseudonym accounts are
pretty easy to set up. 

But does it matter? We know what we know of each other from what we
post, and how we associate (over time) various postings with the login
names.

BJ
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:08:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Need to Talk...
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

Hmm, for me, knowing the "why" gives me to tool for the "what do I do
about it?" portion of the problem.  I too have identified certain areas
where I'm likely to binge (the home-alone syndrome, stress, happy, hmm,
I just like to eat...), and over the time since I've lost my weight, have 
picked up some stretegies to cope.

Example:  We were supposed to have a work shutdown over Christmas.  This
didn't happen, but in previous years when it did, it was binge city for me.
In anticipation of this, I set up several projects and some long bike
rides that I wanted to do.  This kept me out of the house and away from the
refrigerator.  I had to work, but did have an extended holiday at New years.
when I got back from the long rides, I was hungry, but as per plan.  I knew
what I wanted to eat, said stuff was ready to go, and it was eaten.

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: hilp@hfglobe.intel.com (Robin Rosenbaum)
Subject: Re: "Challenge" is a four-letter-word!
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:55:46 GMT

IMHO you met the first challenge head-on: you did something with the
stress *other* than eating the entire inventory of the nearest bakery!
Thanks for posting.

:-) :-) :-)

Wishing you lots of luck & strength.

Robin Hilp
rosenrob@ccm.hf.intel.com or hilp@hfglobe.intel.com
Opinions, attitudes, and beliefs expressed herein are mine and do not
represent those of my employer.

From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:41:46 GMT
Subject: Re: "Challenge" is a four-letter-word!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

I'm trying to decide if I'm up to walking about 9 miles per day for
the (estimated, by me) 2 weeks that I (should be) off the bike.  I suspect
that I might be able to persuade my feet to put up with it, particularly
if I include a stop at the Elk's lodge hot tub to soak my feet.

I refuse to let this 'make' me lose weight control; I'm just not happy
with the alternatives so far.

Pete

From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:59:22 GMT
Subject: Re: temptations
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

Hmm, I live alone, so when I started a fast, it was pretty straightforward
to junk all food.  Still, to handle the sound of chocolate calling my name,
I'd analyze the urge to 'be fair to my fiance' pretty soundly.  If your
fiance understands, give him the chocolates with the instructions to get
them out of your sight ASAP.

If I have a food that's threatening to be trouble, I'll get rid of it
as quickly as possible.  Usually, that's because I ate it, though I'll then
add a 'do not buy tag' to it in my mind.  If it's going to be continual trouble
and I have far too much of it, I'll get rid of it, like dumping it in the
toilet or trash.  At HMR, they recommended getting rid of troublesome food
by first spraying it with Windex, then tossing it.

HMR came up with three imperatives.  We've talked a lot about exercise and
lots of fruits and vegies, but the one to 'keep a low-fat environment' is
probably the *most* important.  it's also the hardest one to measure, and
subject to the most tortuous chains of logic, but it's got to be held if
you really want to achieve success.  (The definition of environment is
also tricky; it depends on the food, how attractive it is to you, etc, etc.
In my case, I'm more or less immune to the charms of peanut butter, and I
can safely keep a jar of it in the fridge.  Not so for chocolate.  When
I get the urge, I remind myself that I'm (mildly) allergic to cholcolate
and resist the urge to buy it in the first place.  I'll (generally) also duck
offers of gift chocolates, except on rare occasions.  BTW, at Christmas, I
decided to listen to the urge.  I found a 2oz package of truffles, and
set things up so that I could enjoy the truffles.  Worked for me, but I was
risking a binge...)

Pete Brooks

Organization: Student Employment Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:52:54 -0500 
From: Judi Mancuso <jm5p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: NEED LOW FAT PASTA SAUCES


Hi again-
We have refurbished our diet to include more pasta and revolve our meals
around the carbohydrates instead of the protein---we love pasta so we
have stocked the cupboards with every imagineable shape of pasta.  We
now need some great low fat sauces to pour over them.  You guys MUST
have a few!  I will post what I get in addition to the ones I have been
using.  Thanks again.  Judi
From: thiessen@emr1.emr.ca (Tracy Thiessen)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: food
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:53:26 GMT
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa

In article <1993Jan27.150918.29814@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.140714.14580@emr1.emr.ca> thiessen@emr1.emr.ca (Tracy Thiessen) writes:
>>Extreme? Say what?
>>
>>Even the newly enlightened Graham Kerr dishes out 6 ounces
>>per serving, for *one* meal. Although I can't remember
>>exactly, the Canada Food Guide recommends at least 4
>>ounces a day.  I'd be curious as to the source of your
>>comments.
>
>From  what  I've seen of Graham Kerr's new show he hasn't the faintest idea
>about  healthy  eating. If you want a satisfying low fat meal simply remove
>the  oil/butter/cream  and  the meat from the dish. I now fry my onions and
>garlic  in  water  then  proceed  as  per a normal recipe (I don't eat meat

I think that would be "boil".

Congratulations on your weight loss!

I disagree with you about Kerr, particularly in light of his
book "Smart Cooking".  In it, he takes classic high-calorie
foods and revamps them with reduced fat, meats and so forth.
The results are pretty good.

I'm not suggesting that this is diet food per se. But they are
good recipes for those of us who love the fattening classics,
but not the normal quantity of fat. I, for one, do intend to
eat butter again some day.  And all six ounces of meat.

Tracy
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Coming out of the shadows
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:00:35 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853



Well, I've been quietly reading and not contributing for a while. I had 
started, like Tom Horton(where is he anyway?), back in April to try to lose
the 10-15 pounds that I had gained over the last two years. Well, now the 
regained figure has increased itself to a good 25!!! Everyone who has 
recently been talking about Weight Watchers had really inspired me to give 
it a try, so I began looking into finding a group on campus. Turns out the 
campus group is $74.00 for 8 weeks, but then I found out about a program 
called Life Steps for 12 weeks for $45.00 and I'm going to my first meeting 
tomorrow. It's offered through the Cornell Wellness Program for staff and is 
reported to be similar to Weight Watchers, but better and more in-depth. I 
have already had a one-on-one orientation with weight, measurements and body 
fat done with the calipers and it looks like 27 pounds will do me for a goal.
I guess I was just looking for some encouragement from you all, as well as 
to make myself accountable to carry it through because I've told you I'm 
doing it. Does that make sense? Anyway, I'll come out of the shadows now and 
keep you posted on how things go. BTW, the program is sponsored, I guess at 
least in part, by the National Dairy Council. Not free advertising, just a 
point of information!

Linda
-- 


Linda Competillo
Publications Assistant