HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Self-knowledge of bookstore workers & others
From: stoddard@ccit.arizona.edu (MJ STODDARD)
Date: 29 Dec 1992 09:41 MST  
 <1992Dec28.185136.3330@athena.mit.edu> <1992Dec28.194103.7686@eff.org>
Distribution: na,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Keywords: curious areas of ignorance  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

The classic example of curious areas of ignorance (forgive me if
this was mentioned in the orignial post) is, of course, Sherlock
Holmes. While possessed of vast knowledge about ashes, foot prints,
and train schedules, he was actively annoyed when Watson tried to
tell him about celestial mechanics (So what if the earth goes around
the sun? What does that have to do with detection?).

Cetainly, this is an admirable dedication to essential matters.
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Born in Bethlehem?
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:39:13 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Dec26.132402.7206@sophia.smith.edu>, orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes:
> A. N. Wilson says in "Jesus: A Life" that it is extremely unlikely
> that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.  Even if one takes everything in
> the Bible as literally true, the birth in a stable remains pure
> myth.  It is not mentioned in any of the Gospels.

Oh?

    And she gave birth to her first-born son; and she wrapped Him
    in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no
    room for them in the inn.[Luke 2:7, NASV]

Whether you want to accept the Bible's account as correct or not
is one thing; but claiming that the Bible doesn't make this claim
is false.  It says nothing for A. N. Wilson's scholarship (or your
reading of it) if this claim is made.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:11:27 GMT

In article <1hl902INNmi3@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>How on earth is Chaucer "like Rabelais"? And that is pretty much my point.
>Gargantua & Pantagruel are not on our earth. They are giant, grotesque
>denizens of terra incognita. Contrariwise, Chaucer's Pilgrims have their 
>feet solidly planted on terra firma. Chaucer's language is the everyday 
>language of the folk he knew. Rabelais' language is outlandish. In any
>case, with Chaucer living some one and a half centuries before Rabelais,
>the notion of refering to Geoffrey Chaucer as "Rabelaisian" approaches
>a gaffe of formidable proportions.

Speaking of considering pre-Rabelais works "Rabelaisian", there is a passage
in "The Book of the Taking of Ireland" (Lebor Gabala Erenn) that is apparently
so crude that it has never (to my knowledge) been translated into English.
(The "Taking of Ireland" is a collection of pre-Christian Irish/Celtic mythology
that was transcribed by monks in the 8th - 11th centuries, but is who knows
how old as an oral tradition).  The stories are about gods, giants, etc. - all
expected mythological traditions, and this particular passage is about Dagda
(a major god) and his visit to his enemies, the Fomoire (Dagda and his group
and the Fomoire are currently at war).  In any case, I considered this passage
when I first saw this thread, as something that might be non-Rabelaisian, and
went looking for a description of it, to see if it actually mentioned farting
(wasn't sure)...only to find:
	Lug then sent the Dagda to the camp of the Fomoire, to spy on
	them and to delay the battle until the men of Ireland should be   
	ready....Porridge was made for him, 'to mock him, for great was
	his love of porridge'....The food was then spilt into a hole in       
	the ground, and the Dagda was obliged to eat it all on pain of
	death, so that he might not reproach them with inhospitality....
	the Dagda finished by scraping the hole with his finger, and
	then he fell asleep.  The Fomoire laughed at his huge belly and  
	his uncouth apparel-a hood over his head, a cape reaching to his
	elbows, a tunic reaching only to his buttocks, and shoes of
	horsehide with the hair on the outside....A Rabelaisian passage
	follows which tells of his intercourse with Indech's daughter,
	who promised her magic assistance against the host of the Fomoire.
		_Celtic Heritage_ by Alwyn Rees & Brinley Rees, pg. 36
It's the description of Dagda's intercourse with Indech's daughter, which
has never been translated.  Another source mentions that the passage is
about the difficulties they have with the Dagda's currently huge belly.  In
any case, if refering to pre-Rabelais material as Rabelaisian is a formidable
gaffe, I'm afraid all are in good company, although I agree that it does
seem sort of strange.  (_Celtic Heritage_ is a very good book on early Celtic
mythology, btw, for any who are interested in that sort of thing).
				Laura Mollett
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wits, Half-Wits, Hemi-Demi-Semi-Wits, et ad nauseam
Date: 24 Dec 1992 13:05:26 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
Reply-To: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: argentina.ai.cs.yale.edu

In article <24DEC92.17205268@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> 
|> Tom Maddox announced:
|> 
|> >    In fact, if the majority were lunatic enough to conform to your 
|> >restrictions, r.a.b. would become a very dull place indeed.  The implied
|> >maxim of "do not offend, whatever the cost" (which would be inaccurately 
|> >characterized by some as "p.c.") would turn us all into timorous and
|> >mincing creatures, all calculation and no spontaneity, all homily and
|> >no wit, all deadly deadly dull.
|> 
|> Rudeness = honesty.  Courtesy = dullness.  Obscenity = wit.  Friendliness =
|> timidity.  
|> 
|> I'm beginning to crack the code of your little world.

Ah, but you forgot one: Stupidity = idiocy.  Your "clique conspiracy"
theories are utterly ridiculous, your accusations laughable, your
sensitivity deeply touching, and your rage a tad overdone.

Speaking as a rab-lurker (having not the time for contribution), I
must say that I find your verbiage precisely that---ill-founded and
misguided slander, not to mention full of a profound misunderstanding
of this group and its dynamic.  I rather enjoy it here; perhaps if you
either went back to lurking, or began contributing constructively to
discussion, you would as well..

I quote from another newsgroup when I say:

		GET A LIFE!!

Enjoy, all!

-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:57:29 GMT


		Heather (hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu) writes to Michael Wise:

        	you can ram your inconsequential remarks up your ass.

	Mark Taranto suggests:

	I fully support Heather's campaign to make r.a.b a friendlier place
	where one can post varied views without fear of reprisal.

	Where do we start?

Well, how about alt.revisisonism, or soc.men, or talk.philosophy.misc,
or alt.feminism?

Keith




--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:20:07 GMT


                                 Thursday, the 31st of December, 1992

Evelyn Leeper writes:
  If one believes (as I do) that a society benefits by educating all its
  members, than for people to say, "Well, the school system is bad, so
  rather than work to fix it, I will pull my kids out."  I certainly
  believe that parents should be concerned about their children's
  education, but it seems to me that this can be done in addition to
  sending them to public school, rather than in place of.  If you take your
  children to museums, or talk about history, or do any number of things,
  you can add to the public school system, not replace it.
  [rest of article deleted]

But, even though I am committed to homeschooling, I *am* deeply concerned
with public education. I just don't see that pulling my own out of the public 
schools hurts anyone. I still pay the same property taxes. There should be
more to go around for others, not less.

When I read in Milwaukee (where we own a home, and have a good chance
of living for awhile) that high school English teachers not only
despair of getting students to read *anything*, but that there are
rebellions by the students when they have to watch the video of the book
in black and white, or when I have been told that the elementary schools
are down to a couple of hours a week of math instruction, or when I
read yet another person with a degree in ``Education'' asserting how
the ``socialization'' function of the schools is far more important than
precisely what gets taught, there is just no way that I am going
to expose my kids to that in the faint hope that the sacrifice of
hours every day of their boredom will allow me to slay the dragon
and bring about excellence singlehandedly in public education. The risk
is that they will be taught to mediocrity in the meanwhile, and the
risk isn't worth it.

Call it selfish or shortsighted if you want, but I intend to vote with
my children's feet, as it were. And I consider it quite a public-minded
political act.

                     Mike Morris
            (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:23396 misc.books.technical:1836
From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical
Subject: Re: bookstores on the net
Date: 29 Dec 92 02:48:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

There are several university presses going online, following on the heels
of the University of Nebraska Press, the pioneer.  Also online here in
Boulder, CO is a bookstore that sells technical books: UTC Biblioteck.  I
don't know their Internet address, though.  Maybe someone can help with
this.  - Steve
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sjowall & Wahloo and other series
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:11:18 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1992Dec28.141208.22661@samba.oit.unc.edu> joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) writes:

>There are two
>threads I'd like to propose: the first is does anyone know of other books
>that do this (ie: Janwillem Van der Wetering's police procedurals set in
>Amsterdam and perhaps Nicholas Freeling's books as well) and do it
>particularly well (I realize that Sayer's did it but I would like to avoid
>the obvious ones and look for series that aren't as well known) and how
>this adds or subtracts from the books as a whole.

Many people compare Ed McBain's police procedurals to the Sjowall/Wahloo
books. Me, I like McBain, but I believe that much more planning went into
the Swedish novels, which were conceived and executed as a 10-book series.
I strongly recommend that they be read in chronological order, starting
with ROSEANNA. Those who want to sample McBain's 87th Precinct novels can
do no better than to start with ICE.

For readers who like to follow the growth of a character over the course
of several crime/mystery novels, I recommend Robert Parker's first 12
Spenser books, beginning with THE GODWULF MANUSCRIPT and ending in
VALEDICTION. (The books after VALEDICTION, which marks a natural
conclusion to the series, show a significant drop in quality.)



--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt)
Subject: The bridges of Madison County
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:25:05 GMT

I have some questions about this book.  I just read it and found 
it profoundly moving, and decided to see if I could find the 
National Geographic issue in question.  It doesn't seem to exist,
nor does any reference to Robert Kinkaid in that period of NG.  
I had believed that, in spite of its classification as fiction, 
the novel was based on a true story (the preface and epilogue
certainly imply that).  Now it seems that only the author and the 
bridges themselves are real.  Anyone in this group have further
insight on this?

The only reference I've seen regarding the book was an inset in 
a Newsweek article about 'hyping' authors' first books.  There
was a brief mention about the reviews being unfavorable.  I would
be interested in hearing about any published reviews; the New York 
Times has apparently not addressed it.

Sorry if this subject matter isn't up to the usual literary level
of this group; nevertheless, any pertinent information that you 
could share would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Tony Matt    tonym@world.std.com
From: rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Rachel M. Kadel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sacred mountains of the World by Edwin Bernbaum
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 22:06:06 EST
Organization: Princeton High School, Princeton, New Jersey

mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman) writes:

> >|> How can a mountain be sacred and be climbed at the same time? 
> > 
> > You have a very narrow definition of "sacred". Perhaps the climbing of the
> >mountain is itself a sacred act.
> 
> Not by someone not party to that religion! Come on! This is like opening up
> Navaho sacred areas to Sierra Club hikes. Are you in favor of that, too???

In some religions, the climbing of a sacred mountain is viewed as a sort 
of pilgrimage, and heartily encouraged.  For example, in Ireland, on a 
certain day in July, it is a custom among devout Catholics (and those 
that like an afternoon hike) to walk up Croagh Patrick, the mountain from 
whence St. Patrick supposedly banished the snakes from Ireland.  If you 
say the correct prayers, etc., it's supposed to get you out of Purgatory. 
Point being that certain sacred places are supposed to be honored rather 
than defiled by the presence of people.

                                       Rachel Meredith Kadel

There's an infinite number of monkeys at the door wanting to show us the 
script to Hamlet they've worked out...The school won't even LISTEN to me 
, much less let me speak for it...rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: What Santa brought -
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:34:13 GMT
Organization: UT Art History
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <29860@castle.ed.ac.uk> Jeremy Henderson,
jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk writes:
>Intro to Percolation Theory - the revised expanded second edition, if you
>care.

Should we assume that this is not a discussion of coffee for those
misguided souls who have no sense of kinship with an espresso machine?
--

"They like sitting around reading all the books there are. And then they 
love arguing about them. Some of those arguments go on for millenium 
after millenium. It just seems to keep them young, for some reason, 
arguing about books." -- Julian Barnes          

Joann Zimmerman (jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Chaucer. Was non-Rabelaisian farts
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:03:16 GMT

In article <1hn95jINNf59@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Mike Godwin says to s1mbm:
>
>	It is a source of pleasure to me that you know Chaucer, and 
>	I want to thank you again for sharing that with us.
>
>And to me a source of some pain that Godwin does not know Chaucer. 

	And to me a source of some amusement that Fido does not know
Godwin.

	While I remain indifferent that Chaucer knows neither Fido nor
Godwin.

	(And would place my vote for _Troilus and Criseyde_ after 
the _Canterbury Tales_ . . .)


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone, chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:58:31 GMT

I'd have to agree with Mark. The reason r.a.b is the way it is is
because the people who are interested in it are interested in questions
beyond what was the last book you read. It seems the calls for a new
group come from those who don't participate in the group. At the risk
of sounding like a bad host, the reason the posters like this group is
because there are extended, deep, philosophical discussions of issues
and randy, shallow, meaningless, pithy bantering. We like it that way.
I follow this group to the exclusion of others, mostly because I get
tired of people who are too lazy to pick up a telephone or go to a 
library or even look up something in the dictionary, and instead post
to the net. Rec.travel, my other newsgroup, is filled with requests
for information, and almost no discussion goes on. 

That's what the newbies want, a completely information based newsgroup
just like all the others. Or at least that's what they claim. More-
over, there seems to be a belligerent attitude among them, like we
have been denying them something. These newbies have been very rude to 
all concerned. Mark Taranto is a rare breed, a true gentleman, who
will often clear his posts with the potential offendees ahead of time.
I didn't feel he needed to apologize to Heather (After having her
flame me over Gertrude Stein, a pet peeve of mine, I don't care
much about Heather's feelings), but he did, and I have a great
deal of repect for him doing it. Heather, lacking any sense of 
decorum or propriety, proceeds to blast him to hell without so much
as a 'Humph' at his apology. 

I don't understand where these people come off. They enter a room and 
decide that because they don't like it there, so the rest of us just have
to stop whatever we were doing and pick up what they want to do. I know
what to do with guests like that. Throw them out.


___________________________________________________________________________
Michael Wise 	(wwhitman@nevada.edu)	UNLV English

"Now I want you to tell me just one thing more. Why do you hate the South?"
"I dont hate it," Quentin said quickly, at once, immediately; "I dont
hate it," he said. I dont hate it he thought, panting in the cold air, 
the iron New England dark: I dont. I dont. I dont hate it! I dont hate it!
				--William Faulkner, Absalom! Absalom!