HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Helicopter Access (was: Alaskan Heliskiing)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:24:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Apr13.175552.6149@tc.fluke.COM> lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog) writes:

>Kurt Diemberger speaks of a "barrier of fatigue" that is needed to
>preserve wilderness.  Europeans like Diemberger, who long ago lost
>the wilderness in their home countries, look to places like Canada
>and Alaska to preserve it.  I don't want to lock people out of the
>wilderness.  I don't even want to eliminate helicopters.  But I
>wonder whether it is a good thing to use them as much as we do.
>
>In the Coast Mountains, Don Serl and others have sometimes
>compromised by flying in and walking out.  I have considered limiting
>my air support to float or ski planes.  This would allow me to enter
>deep wilderness, but would put limits on just how close I could get
>to a particular objective.

Let's take the bull by the tail and face the situation.  Whether or
not YOU hire a helicopter isn't going to make a discernable difference,
except in your personal experience.  While you walk, the masses will fly.
In order to preserve the wilderness as wilderness, helipcopters, planes,
motorcycles, snowmobiles, mountain bikes, horses, maybe even shoes must
be banned through legislation.  (I'm not holding my breath waiting for
this to happen, but I fully support it.)  Actually, allowing shoes
is probably a good compromise.  (One must compromise occasionally,
in politics.)

The term Nature Park is more appropriate than Wilderness.  The only
remaining wilderness, if any, is perhaps in some remote sections of
Antarctica.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: jimiii@mips.com (Jim Warford)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Outdoor gear - Mud
Date: 15 Apr 1992 16:03:16 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: electron.mips.com

In article <16320033@hprpcd.rose.hp.com> aknoll@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Al Knoll) writes:
>Try Waders, works for us fish molesters.

Duck hunters who wish to travel deep into marshes have just the ticket.

Make 2 small boats out of 1/8" plywood.  They should be about 3 foot long,
1 foot wide and >9 inches deep.  Try to mimic the design of a flat bottomed
skiff.  Make sure to seal the seams and coat with a good waterproof finish.
You can vary the dimensions based upon your body weight.

They are also available commercially but overpriced.
 These will allow you to walk across mud, water or whatever.

--jimiii@mips.com



-- 
 Faster horses
 Younger women 
 Older whiskey
 More money!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: noah@cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker)
Subject: Re: If You get Lost
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 17:11:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.192256.6081@spectrum.xerox.com> damouth@wrc.xerox.com writes:
>Another lesson:  an informally and unskillfully blazed trail can be a
>one-way street.  Marks that seemed obvious going in were almost
>impossible to find coming out.

	Another lesson about informally and poorly or not blazed trails:
Don't always assume that the other people knew where they were going.
How often have in winter have you followed someone else's ski or snowshoe
tracks only to find that the trail suddenly ends and that they had turned
around?  Following someone else's trail is a very seductive thing to do
in the winter rather than break a new trail.

							 Rick Zucker
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu (R. J. Auletta)
Subject: Re: Origins of "slickrock" (was: (random thoughts on) naturally fractal)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 18:26:53 GMT

In article <16460133@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com> ses@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer) writes:
>differnt kind of sandstone (there are MANY).  The Entrada and Navajo sandstones
>that make "slickrock" are quite hard and stable.  If you haven't seen it
>(southern Utah) it is like rust/buff colored concrete, but harder.   The actual
>term "slickrock" was coined in 1830 by miners who had to lead steel shod mules
>across the (very hard) rock which made the mules susceptible to some nasty
>falls.  I can't imagine a wagon trying to go across any significant expanse
>of slickrock.


  What then is the explanation of the Slickrock Wilderness Area
  in Western North Carolina? And Slickrock Creek which drains it.

  Rocks which are Alkaline tend to be slick when wet. You can prove
  this to yourself with a little baking soda and water. The water will
  feel "slippery" between your fingers. Alkaline solutions have
  this characteristic.

   In the East, the scrabbled strata tends to mix granites and limestones
   together in a various drainages, and one discovers that some of those
   rocks  are "slick" compared to the "others" when wet.

   At least that is my hypothesis.

  -R J Auletta
From: kupstas@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Tents for tall people (was: clip flashlight)
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:23:26 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1449600005@igc.org> ecologycntr@igc.org (Ecology Center Fund) writes:
>
>I have a Clip Flashlight and i like it a lot.  It IS small: two people much
>bigger than 160 lbs each using the tent better be GOOD friends.  And there
>isn't much room to sit up, unless you're real short: not a good tent for 
>a five day rainstorm.
>

My partner and I looked seriously at this tent, but when we got in
it, it was just too short. My partner is 6'2" -- he already is 
cramped in our Eureka Timberline. (I however fit just fine; in fact,
all the extra gear in the tent goes at my feet.) 

Can anyone recommend a tent that is lightweight, well-ventilated,
and reasonably storm-proof (we often end up in torrential downpours
around these parts -- last about 3 hours, then they are gone. Really
clears the trails of those wimpier campers, though :-)  but also
lets someone who is 6'2" stretch out a bit?  The Timberline
is plain too heavy to lug around and our budget _finally_ permits
the luxury of a second tent. 

Any hint appreciated!
Eileen
From: caj20721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chris Jasek)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Backpacking Entertainment
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:30:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Apr10.183043.5529
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I realize that this might be sort of a strange request.  For one of
my business class we are planning a backpacking wilderness weekend
for three days to Shawnee Forest in Southern Illinois.  For the most
part we have inexperienced group.  This is our final project for the
class are we are in need of some ideas for "fun" activities.  The main
thing I am looking for are activities or games that could be done on the
trip that relate to leadership or organizations.  Also, if you have any
suggestions as of fun games to play in general.

Any ideas?
Email to caj20721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Thanks in advance,
Chris

-- 
==========================================================================
Chris Jasek                                     
University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana
caj20721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backpacking Entertainment
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:43:08 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <kuu0h6INNq7p@spim.mips.com> jimiii@mips.com (Jim Warford) writes:

> Speaking of fowl, anybody up for a thanksgiving backpack trip where you
>get a live turkey and lead it in on a leash and then have it for dinner?
> You could even make a little turkey backpack and fill it with the
>ingredients for stuffing.

Better make it a short hike.  Your average domestic turkey is hardly
in shape to walk more than a quarter of a mile, even without a
backpack.  These critters are bred for large breasts not ability to
get around.  (In fact they have become so distorted from the wild
version that the breeding often is done artificially, Tom is no 
longer able to perform his natural function with Thomasina.)  One
advantage of this breeding is we can eat turkey without worrying
about some intelligent life form being killed to feed us - the
domestic turkey gives new meaning to the term "birdbrain."

I like your sense of humor though.
From: aknoll@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Al Knoll)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info requested on White Mtn, Southern CA
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:53:46 GMT
Organization: HP Roseville Site

If you approach from the Westgard Pass side you can drive to 12000 or so.

If you approach from the Laws side (valley near Bishop) you can drive a jeep
to the summit or walk.

There is a strenuous Mtn Bike ride that goes from Laws to the summit and back
every June.  (One day/evening)  Contact Wilson Sports in Bishop Ca. or call.

They're in AC 619.  

The tour of the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest on the road from Westgard Pass
is a well worth the time uniquely humbling experience.  You will walk by many 
trees over 3000 years old and close to one over 4000.  But you should hurry,,
the LA Smog is killing off the Bristlcones.

Al (Been There Done That, liked it a lot)
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: What's good in N. CA in early May?
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:24:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: titipu.01010064.0p68fh
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Metalogic
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.9b1

I'll have about a week for sightseeing and dayhiking in California starting
April 30, after a conference in San Francisco.  I'm aware of a lot of places
I'd like to see in central and northern CA, but I don't have a very good idea
of conditions in various areas.  Would mid-week in early May be a good time to
see Yosemite valley?  What is worth seeing that doesn't require snow travel at
that time?  Northern Sierras?  Southern Cascades?  Should I stick to the coast
and the state and national Redwood Parks?  Am I missing other good bets?  I'm
asking more about general areas than specific places; I'll find the latter.

This could generate lots of comments if I'm lucky ... email and I'll summarize.

Edward Reid  (8-}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: mstone@teda.Teradyne.COM (Michelle Stone)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: What's good in N. CA in early May?
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:15:23 GMT

ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid) writes:

>I'll have about a week for sightseeing and dayhiking in California starting
>April 30, after a conference in San Francisco.  I'm aware of a lot of places

>This could generate lots of comments if I'm lucky ... email and I'll summarize.


Yosemite!  That's the place.  Yea.... that's the ticket.  I wouldn't 
recommend any place else.  Remember.  Yosemite.  Don't go any where
else. Got it?  Good.  

;)

Michelle
From: nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: If You get Lost
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:34:20 GMT
Reply-To: nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <9421@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.190101.16519@news.media.mit.edu> sanjay@media.mit.edu (Sanjay Manandhar) writes:
>>In article <9411@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>...
>>>1.  I suspect much of the "civilized" world will be similar in many
>>>important respects.
>
>>What is your definition of "civilized"?
>
>Well, first off notice that I put the word in quotes.  That was
>because I am not convinced that what we call civilization really
>amounts to much more than just having nicer toys to play with.  To
>me true civilization has more to do with love of fellow creature
>than with technology of any sort.  However, to most people the word
>refers to an area where people are organized into relatively stable
>political groups and the land is settled.  For lack of a better
>word, I used "civilized" here to mean areas which are essentially

   [ ... rest of the reasonable discussion deleted ... ]

Probably a pretty hard term to define.  I would say that a good working
definition, however, would be to start with the generally accepted use
of the word "civil," as in "people in area xyz are civil".  Which would
usually mean that they follow the customs accepted in that area.  Of
course, some of these customs might be strange (to an outsider).  Note
also that by my loose definition, some areas of US cities might not be
considered civilized :-)

John


--
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306

            Ross Perot, hell!  Fujimori for President!!!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: steve@zoo.toronto.edu (Stephen Smith)
Subject: "The North Face" Bigfrog: opinions sought.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:48:04 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Well, after much soul searching, and the perusing of countless catalogues,
my SO and I are considering buying a TNF Bigfrog tent.

Though they'll be glad to special order a Bigfrog for us, none of the 
local outfitters has one of these on display, nor do their staff seem to 
know enough to answer the few questions we have - hense this appeal
to the net. Without more rambling, here are the questions:

1) The Bigfrog, and its smaller relative the Bullfrog formerly
   used pole and sleeve construction. They're now "No Hitch Pitch".  Is
   the NHP system all it's cracked up to be (i.e. quick and easy to use)? 
   Is "pole and sleeve" preferrable?

2) In spite of how close we've peered at the photos of the "Bigfrog"
   in the two catalogues that we've found it ('92 REI and '91 TNF), the
   Bigfrog appears to possess *just* a no-see-um mesh door - there's
   no sign of a weather door (perhaps it's craftily tucked inside?). Has.
   anyone seen this tent close enough to say whether it's got a weather
   door or not?

Finally, if anyone has any comments on this tent or TNF tents in general
we'd be most happy to hear from you. Thanks in advance.
---
-- 
+==========================================================================+
+     Stephen Smith  ||  Department of Zoology. University of Toronto      +
+             email  ||  steve@zoo.utoronto.ca                             +
+==========================================================================+
From: ddj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Josephson)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:38:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Outdoor Research Products
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Sebastian Sears writes:

>        I've found that for almost all application Velcro wears out very
>        quickly. I won't stand for it on any of my backpacking gear or any
>        other outdoor stuff.

I've had excellent results with the Velcro on my Moonstone anorak.  It has been
subjected to heavy usage (Velcro on cuffs, storm flaps on front and pit zips)
for about four years and has no signs of wear and still sticks together very
well.  The Velcro on my overmitts was shot in < 1 year, and it received the same
amount of usage as the cuff Velcro on my anorak.  I think OR just has poor
quality Velcro or something.

Has anybody sent theirs back to OR to get replaced?  I'm wondering if I can get
some new (hopefully improved) mitts.

Doug Josephson  ddj@fc.hp.com  Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: scarlett@bnr.ca (Michael Dorotich)
Subject: Re: clip flashlight
Keywords: tent, clip, sierria designs
Reply-To: scarlett@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 16:34:54 GMT

In article <mich.4@aci_1.aci.ns.ca>, mich@aci_1.aci.ns.ca writes:
|> I'm about to buy a sierra designs clip flashlight, I think.  Does anyone 
|> have any reasons why I shouldn't?  Like it leaks or falls apart or is it
|> generally a piece of junk?  Any good or bad expierances with this model 
|> would be gratefully apreciated. 
|> 
|> -thanx
|>    -M. Himmelman

Are you intending to share your tent with anyone? If so, you'll have a problem
as this tent is absolutely wee. Another thing to bear in mind is that is it not
free standing, having only two poles.  I've given up on this sort of system
after having the Devil's own time trying to get a two-pole tent to stay up on
snow or hard-packed earth (read "rock"). You might look at a North Face Tadpole.
This tent is free standing, holds two people (just barely), and weighs but 4 lbs.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mit@b11.ingr.com (Timothy A. Turner)
Subject: Re: Rails to Trails
Keywords: 
 
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:33:58 GMT

|>    Interesting, thing, tho.  I was talking with a friend of mine who
|> rides it almost every weekend with his girlfriend, and he said that the
|> attitude of the people who live along the biking path has changed now,
|> since they've discovered that bikers are generally pretty nice people.
|> In fact, some of the farmers have even been seen riding down the bike
|> path, with two or three children in tow, each with their own set of
|> training wheels :-)  

You know, that's just the thing. These trails make great parks that pull
communities together. I have just been on one rtt, east of dc, but the
pride was evident in each community. Not only that, but if the area desired,
businesses thrived around it. There was the quaint little smalltown diner
at the west end of the trail and the bustling town center in Reston. In-
between were miles of peaceful scenery.
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: If You get Lost
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:33:21 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Apr16.095008.13044@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@Panda1.UOttawa.CA (Peter Hickey) writes:

>I've been 'a bit confused' a few times, but have always gotten
>re-oriented within a few minutes.  What if it takes me 10 minutes?
>What if its a half hour?  When do I stop trying and admit I'm
>lost?

I think this is really two questions:

1.  When do you stop trying to re-orient yourself?

2.  When do you admit you are lost?

I think the answer to question 1 is, "Never."  Always keep alert for
something which will help you find yourself.  However this does not
mean you should go wandering around to do so, simply keep looking at
your surroundings, checking for clues as to which direction is
which, etc.  It is not at all uncommon for someone to get lost, then
after a night's sleep get themselves straightened out and find the
way back.  Of course you still have to be careful that you really do
find the way back, not just go off in a different direction and get
further away from the central search area.

As for the second question, I think you should admit your are lost
as soon as you realize that you are unsure which way to go or where
you are.  Any time you are unsure of your orientation is time to
stop and do something about it.  The "lost" time may last for only a
few seconds but recognizing disorientation and doing something about
it can keep you from going on in the wrong direction and getting
into much more trouble.  You may even find that on a trip you get
"lost" many times, no biggie if you reorient yourself quickly each
time.  Just consider these minor events as times to stop and get
back on track and maybe be a bit more careful as you proceed
further.  If such an event lasts long enough that you begin to
doubt that you will be able to reorient yourself, prepare to become 
the object of an organized search.  I think this is where we often 
go wrong - we don't want the embarrassment so we fool ourselves into 
thinking we either are not really lost or that we can find the way 
back if we just keep walking.  I believe the most critical moment is 
when it first occurs to us that we might become the object of a
search operation.

The important thing is to be *totally* honest with yourself.  It is 
a common human (especially male) tendency to deny that you are in 
trouble.  This tendency can quickly get you into even deeper trouble.
From: gt3930b@prism.gatech.EDU (NICHOLS,STEVEN MALCOLM)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: REI Halfdome tent: opinions sought
Keywords: REI Halfdome tent, is it worth it?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:36:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


I'm thinking about buying a tent.  I've been putting it off for
about 8 years now, bivvying or using my Chouinard Pyramid.
Anyway, I'm looking at the REI Halfdome and was wondering if
anyone out there has had experience with this tent.  It looks
like a good design, similar in shape to a Bibler, so I expect
it will be good at shedding snow and wind.  Self standing, which
is a really nice feature for camping on hard ground or on docks
in the Okeefenokee swamp.  It *looks* simple to put up, good for
pitching the tent in the dark.  Relatively light
at 5 lbs 2 oz, so-so for room, with a footprint a little bigger
than a NF Tadpole, most importantly it is inexpensive at $100.
Is my assessment accurate?  Is it as good as it looks?  
Do the seams hold up?  What about the zippers: will they blow 
out after a while?  I'll probably use it for a little of 
everything: bicycle touring, car camping, backpacking, ski touring.  
Please e-mail me, and I will summarize all of the replies and 
post them in a week or two.  

Steve.
gt3930b@hydra.gatech.edu

ps Though I'm posting from an Atlanta GA address, I'm actually in
Los Alamos NM until June, so I can't run down to the Atlanta REI
and look at the Halfdome in person.
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe/Reno
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:29:05 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <6APR199220033326@cc.weber.edu> JTAN@cc.weber.edu writes:
>Anybody know of any pristine/rugged regions
>around Lake Tahoe/Reno/Incline Village?

If you leave Donner Summit and go up the *east* side of Castle Peak
ridge to Devil's Oven Lake you usually won't see many people but lots 
of wildflowers.  Some cross-country required.  Another nice, but by
no means pristine, hike is to the fire lookout on top of Sierra Buttes,
above Sierra City N/NW of Tahoe.  

On south shore you can hike to Star Lake.  This is at the base of eminently
baggable Freel Peak and Job's Sister.  These are the next massif somewhat
S/SW of Heavenly Ski Resort.  However, its proximity to south shore could
mean lots of bozos -- I nearly got run over in my sleep by some drunken
clowns who were delivering a case of beer to some other drunken idiots...

No wilderness permit required for these areas.  Then there's
Desolation Wilderness, which requires permits even for day hikes, plus
there's a quota for overnighters.


-- 

John Reece			
Intel spokesman?  Not!           
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kriegman@klaupacius.eng.yale.edu (David Kriegman)
Subject: Re: Three Brothers still Three Brothers?
Organization: Yale University, Center for Systems Sciences
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:46:26 GMT


And how about the slide on Glacier point apron above Monday Morning
Slab?  Last summer, I went over to reclimb Choinard crack and
Harry Dailey which I'd climbed four years prior.  Obviously, there had
been a big slide since the belay trees were all gone and everything
was coated with dirt.  We felt such bad vibes in the neighborhood,
that we high-tailed out of there?

When did it happen?  Are there new fixed rap anchors where the trees
used to be?  Did it open up any new routes?

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry