HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eclarke@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Eric S. Clarke)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations Division, Palo Alto
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:50:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.193917.8306@infonode.ingr.com>, stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
|> Having been practically coerced into becoming an assistant den leader 
|> for my son's bear den, I figured I'd better read through his bear book
|> to see what I was getting myself into.  In chapter 2 I read about the
|> Emblems of Faith Achievement where the scout receives the Religious
|> Emblem Square Knot.  I was greatly disturbed to read about the Buddhist,
|> Hindu, Islamic and Jewish emblems that I, serving in a leadership
|> position, might have to award as an achievement someday.  As a Christian,
|> I would find it extremely difficult to award someone for any work done to 
|> further beliefs that discredit Jesus as Lord and Savior.  I was wondering
|> how other Christian scout leaders have handled this moral dilemma.  I just
|> hope it remains a hypothetical situation for me!

First, I can't understand how you can totaly discredit other peoples beliefs.
I am a Christian; but, I am sure I would not want to associate with someone
that has such a narrow minded attitude.  I don't believe Jesus would want
you to respond to a non-Christian in that kind of manner.  The crusades and
the inquisition were base on similar beliefs.

Second, you don't need to worry _EVER_ about presenting _ANY_ religious
awards.  The are presented by the scout or cubs's church (or other appropriate
name for such type organisation) leader.  The religious awards are only sort
of scouting awards.  They are presented to cubs scouts and in some cases
scouters who explore their religious beliefs and and then completes some
projects.  The person that takes care of this award is the scouts religious
leader.  The awards are usally presented in a religous ceremony.

-- 

Eric S. Clarke                     INTERNET:  eclarke@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com 
1055 Joaquin Road                      UUCP:  uunet!ibmsupt!eclarke
Moutain View, CA 94043             IBM VNET:  ECLARKE at ALMADEN
415-694-3858  T/L: 466-3858            
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens)
Subject: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Organization: ingr
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:39:17 GMT

Having been practically coerced into becoming an assistant den leader 
for my son's bear den, I figured I'd better read through his bear book
to see what I was getting myself into.  In chapter 2 I read about the
Emblems of Faith Achievement where the scout receives the Religious
Emblem Square Knot.  I was greatly disturbed to read about the Buddhist,
Hindu, Islamic and Jewish emblems that I, serving in a leadership
position, might have to award as an achievement someday.  As a Christian,
I would find it extremely difficult to award someone for any work done to 
further beliefs that discredit Jesus as Lord and Savior.  I was wondering
how other Christian scout leaders have handled this moral dilemma.  I just
hope it remains a hypothetical situation for me!


Todd Stevens
stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: "adbr canada" <adbr.canada@canrem.com>
Subject: weekend camp in canada
Reply-To: "adbr canada" <adbr.canada@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:09:50 EST

        From:     Scouter Harry Fox
                   5th Thornhill Scout Troop
                        Thornhill, ON CANADA L3T 1V7

        To:      Scouters in the North-eastern U.S.

                If your group would be interested in joining our Troop
                of 25 Boys and 6 Leaders for a camp in the spring of
                1993 up here at one of our Reserves or Provincial parks,
                please send E-mail to me as; ADBR CANADA, Attention
                Harry Fox, via CRS/CANADA REMOTE SYSTEMS, Mississaugua,
                Ontario Canada.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 14:26:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: IBM Research
Keywords: Cub usa policy faith religion bsa

In article <1992Oct5.131105.4629@infonode.ingr.com>, stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
|> Donald R. Newcomb writes:
|> 
|> 
|> This is apparently quite a hot button for this group!  The last thing I
|> want is for you rec.scouters to think I am at all anti-Semitic, anti-Islamic,
|> or any other anti's you label me with.  I will respond to Donald's article
|> because I believe it gets to the heart of the matter.  I believe I must
|> respect everyones right to practice their faith as they see fit (as long
|> as it does no harm to anyone else).  Specifically, my problem is with
|> actively promoting or encouraging a faith that discredits Jesus Christ as
|> Lord and Savior of mankind.  I guess as long as it is clear to everyone 
|> involved that the Scout award given to the boy who has achieved an Islamic/
|> Jewish/Hindu/Buddist emblem is to not be interpreted IN ANY WAY as PROMOTING 
|> or ENCOURAGING his faith, then I would be comfortable supporting it.  But how 
|> can it not promote or encourage?  Isn't that the purpose of an award??
|> 

I seriously think you should not become a Scout Leader.

The Scout Laws, controversial as they may be with
respect to issues like atheism, clearly mandate
respect for the religious beliefs of others.
The boy earning a religious badge is not showing
any disrepect for your religion, but you are
showing a disrespect for his by slandering
his religion.

Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist religions predate
Christianity and therefore cannot possibly
"discredit" Jesus.

Islam postdates Christianity, but honors Jesus
as a prophet.

If you're going to label as hostile any religion which does
not share your beliefs about Jesus, then you cannot
possibly be tolerant of them.  




-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: Brian.K.Sward@dartmouth.edu (Brian K. Sward)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on Eagle Court of Honor
Date: 4 Oct 92 03:48:59 GMT
 <1992Oct2.122544.9529@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct2.122544.9529@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
ldg@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (lawrence.d.goldsmith) writes:

> We have always held an Eagle Court in conjunction with a standard Troop
> Court of Honor that we hold 3 times per year and on our normal meeting
> night. I know other Troops that hold them on Sunday afternoon.
> The Eagle portion of the Court of Honor usually last about 1 hour.

I personally feel that this is very wrong.  To have a boy spend his
entire scouting career working towrds his Eagle, and then have it
presented during a "special part" of a regular court of honor is
absurd.  Our troop has always kept an Eagle Court seperate and special.
 Quite often we have friends having dual courts of honor, but never
ever, do we present a scout with his Eagle and then give little Johnny
his Tenderfoot.  That is not what all of the Eagle's friends and family
have travelled miles to see. 
 Another reason against this is the sheer length of the ceremony. My
court of honor lasted over an hour an a half, with refreshments
afterwards.  Try and rethink your policy from the boy's point of view. 
The youth should not have to share "His Day" with anyone else unless he
wants to.

  Sorry if I got a little viscous, but I just thought about how I would
have felt.

Brian Sward
ASM Troop 166, Randolph NJ
Eagle Scout #46 of 53

brian.sward@dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W)
Subject: Re: Using Computers in Scouting
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:02:40 GMT

mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:

>I'm putting together a training session on "Using Computers in Scouting."
>The focus is on applications. I have already covered the usual uses (databases
>newsletters, certificates, etc). I was thinking that all you smart, creative,
>computer literate types might come up with some more unusual applications.
>I'm also interested in your experiences with various applications. The 
>applications don't have to be limited to those that currently exist. Wishes 
>are OK, too. When I get the final material together, I'll post it.

>NOTE: This was also posted on SCOUTS_L some time back. For those who saw it 
>there, I'm still working on it.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Wilson 
>Eagle Class of 1974
>SM, Troop 565, Deltona, FL

Some years ago, when I had leaders above me (yep), we had an evening
program
about communication, and about the difficulties in it. I don't remember
exactly, but we had some games that evening, and we closed it up with
a simple 'chat' between 2 computers, with a cable between it. Lot of
fun, despite the fact that it was only a simple program.

Maybe an idea?

Wouter Liefting
wlieftin@cs.vu.nl

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wizzard@wam.umd.edu (The Wizzard)
Subject: Re: Making up patrols
Keywords: patrol
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:32:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.021849.28137@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> dunne@physics (Robert C. Dunne) writes:
>I would like to know how other troops make up patrols. We have tried
>different methods with mixed results. Allowing the Scouts to make up
>their own minds (in our experience) creates a strong patrol where most
>of the boys are into Scouting and a weak patrol (made up of the leftovers).
>Another method of boys choosing one other boy they wanted to be with and
>the Scouters making up the final list. I have realize that good friends
>usually make a good patrol but also realize that mixing allows boys to 
>interact with boys he would not normally choose. You must also contend
>with the boy no one seems to want in their patrol.
>
>If anyone has a sure-fire method of picking good patrols, I would like
>to see it posted.
>
>			Bob Dunne
>			ASM Troop 368
>			Berkeley Hts. NJ

I have had a different experience in my troop.  For a while all we had was one
patrol, and when we surpassed the 10 active scout mark, we decided to divide
the troop into 2 patrols.  I gave each scout a paper for them to write down 
who they want to have in their patrol, and then I looked at the papers and
grouped the scouts into their present patrols and not including new scouts,
these patrols have not changed in a year.  No scout wanted to change patrols 
in the two times we asked (at each Patrol Leader Election, every 6 months).
Either I am a miracle worker (which I seriously doubt) or this method worked.
The new scouts were placed either in either the patrol with the friend who
recruted him, or if none of our scouts recruted him, into the patrol which
needs a new member (i.e. the patrol with the fewest active members).

Both of our patrols are strong.  We do not have a weak patrol and a strong
patrol.

I guess it just depends on the makeup of the troop.  If you have a group of
scouts from one school, and all the rest are from a variety of schools, then
you will probably have a week and a strong patrol.  In the case of my troop,
we have a group of scouts from  one school, andother group of scouts from
the same neighborhood, and then several "miscellaneous" scouts who do not
fit the above category.  This helps us in keeping our troop harmony.

I hope this helps!

Signed,
  Shawn Scoles
  Eagle Class of 1988
  ASM of Troop 299, Hyattsville, MD
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: "adbr canada" <adbr.canada@canrem.com>
Subject: oa
Reply-To: "adbr canada" <adbr.canada@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:19:28 EST

TO: JEREMY GOLDMAN/Troop 18 --> Owings Mills, JCC i
via *PCB/Usenet Gateway from Sparkware #1

        I am the Skip for a Thornhill, ON Troop of about 25 Boys. About
half are Jewish, some are Moslem, some are Hindu and some are from the
various Christian faiths. If you would be interested in sharing some of
the experiences about camping, regarding foods, holidays problems, etc.
leave me a note in this conference.
        If your group is interested in a joint camp with our group in
the spring of next year please also let me know, and we can share some
thoughts.
        L'Shona Tova to you and your group. Hope to hear from you soon.

        Skip Harry Fox
        ADBR CANADA via CRS and USENET
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scout names for troop leaders
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 12:50:31 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

> In article <1992Sep22.233553.3632@news.Hawaii.Edu>, dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.ed
> >Aloha--
> >     Scout leaders:  how does your troop adress you?  My troop calls me
> >(their leader) by my first name.  Are you comfortable with this or
> >would you rather they address you by "Mr.", "Ms.", or "Mrs." or by
> >some other nickname?  Sometimes I feel that my troop respects me as
> >an adult-in-charge, yet at other times, I feel as if they aren't
> >respecting my cautions or instructions.  Could this be related to
> >the way they address me (ie they don't see me as an authority figure
> >because most other authority figures are addressed by a title)?  At
> >first, I introduced myself to them by my first name because I wanted
> >to foster friendships and avoid some of the "scary authority" syndrome.
> >Now I feel like it's gone too far the other direction.  Any comments
> >or suggestions?
>
> Actually, when the boys start wandering around calling me "Mr. Wilkinson,"
> I still have to fight the urge to check to see if my father showed
> up. The boys in the troop switch back and forth between "Mr. Wilkinson"
> and "Dennis" (although most of the boys who use my first name
> are old enough to remember me as Senior Patrol Leader rather than
> Scoutmaster... this can happen when you take over a troop at 22!)

And now for some words from the Girl Scouting side:
I have seen two troops and both troop leaders go by the "Mrs. ....". It
seems that we avoid the parental ties to our names, as (most anyway) we
have our married names. I think that the respect thing goes farther than
the name. In the first troop I was in, the girls showed disrespect quite
often, but many of them had problems with the leader. She didn't earn
their respect by treating them with respect. In the troop I'm in now, the
girls are well behaved because the new leader (and I, I hope) treat them
as thinking people, not just kids to be told what to do. This is the way
(Girl) Scouting should be. As always, you must earn their respect.


* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wizzard@wam.umd.edu (The Wizzard)
Subject: Scouting Trip to Austrailia - Responses Requested.
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:16:05 GMT

My scout troop is planning our once per five year big trip for the Middle of 
1994 (June, July, or August).  Every 5 years, our troop plans a 2 or 3 week 
trip to someplace where few scouts will ever have a chance to go.  Some of the 
previous places we have gone are: 

1972 Europe
???? United States Rockies
1984 Florida
1989 Eastern Canada (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, 
Newfoundland and Labrador)

I went on the Eastern Canada trip and we visited Fundy National Park (New 
Brunswick), Prince Edward Island National Park (Prince Edward Island), Gros 
Morne National Park (Newfoundland), Terra Nova National Park (Newfoundland), 
L'Anse aux Meadows National Historic Park (Newfoundland), Cape Breton 
Highlands National Park (Nova Scotia), and Baxter State Park (Maine).  We also 
visited many provincial parks.  We hiked in Gros Morne, backpacked in Baxter, 
and went white water rafting in Baxter. 

We are interested in activities such as backpacking, hiking, canoeing, 
snorkling/scuba diving, rafting, swimming, historical sites, museams, etc.  
In other words, anything scouts between the ages of 12 and 18 would enjoy.
I know that we will try to get by Ayer's Rock.  By the way: Amusement Parks do 
not count.

We will most likely have a 3 week trip to Austrailia.  Who should we write to 
find more information about any of the above activities?  If any Scouters out 
there from Austrailia can give use ideas that are popular with your scouts, 
you are welcomed to respond. 

Also, I would like to get in contact with scouters in Austrailia who might 
have a troop that would like to do some camping or other activities with my 
troop.  I do not know much about the school year in Austrailia, so this may 
cause problems.  I know that it will be winter in Austrailia when we arrive
so if your scholl year is anything like ours, your scouts are in school during 
June, July, and August.

About costs, money should not be a problem for our troop, but I was wondering 
if anybody could give me an idea about airfare to Austrailia from Washington, 
DC or from Baltimore, Maryland.  If you do not know specifically from DC or 
MD, anyplace in the USA will give me an idea of what we are looking at (please 
tell me from where).  I also need to know whether you are talking about one-
way or round-trip fares.  Also, do any of you have any ideas how to find 
special fares for scout troops (if there is a such thing) or ideas where to 
look for other special fares.  One place is a travel agent (AAA for example),  
but I would like other ideas. 

Signed,
  Shawn Scoles
  Eagle Class of 1988
  Assistant Scoutmaster of Troop 299
  Hyattsville, Maryland, USA

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Order of the Arrow
Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:06:41 GMT

>Scouting in America has degenerated into somethning of a JOKE.  I can 
>truthfully say that I am (almost) ashame of admitting to being an Eagle 
>Scout and a member of the OA.  American Indians have no right to be upset 
>about painting the body!  Since when do Indians (they're not Native 
>Americans) have a cornor on paint?  Symbolism? Etc...

Statements like these show a remarkable ignorance, especially coming from
a member of the OA and Eagle Scout. With that attitude, I'd be ashamed
to have you admit to being an Eagle Scout, too. 

And as far as Native Americans go (guess what? They're as native as they
come...) they may not have a corner on paint or symbolism, but they
certainly have a corner on their own religion. For us to degrade their
religion by using it as part of an induction ceremony for people who
don't follow that religion.... "well now, that just ain't right!"

I don't normally put this in my .sig, but just for the record, I am 
an Eagle Scout (Class of 87) and a Vigil Honor member of the OA.
But you don't need to be to posess some degree of respect, now,
do you?

***************************************************************************
* Dennis J. Wilkinson, II                * BITNET:    PNSF01DW@UMASSD     *
* Senior Macintosh Programmer            * Internet:  pnsf01dw@umassd.edu *
* Design/CS Project                      *                                *
* University of Mass. - Dartmouth        * (508)999-8896                  *
***************************************************************************
*    Insert disclaimer whereever -  they *are* MY opinions, after all!!   *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Sep25.053134.8487@CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:18:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.053134.8487@CS.ORST.EDU> johnh@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Holeman) writes:

- This is the type of strength I have been talking about.  To be able
- to talk the abuse of other people and still decide that tour own
- life is more important.  I commend your friend for his strength.
 
While I agree with your commendation of his friend, I have a big
problem with your stance.  You say that each individual makes that
decision in the end.  But with kids (and teen-agers ARE kids...I've
read books by psychologists that say adolescence goes to age 26!),
things are different.  You are not mature at the teen-age level.  You
should not be expected to be as responsible for your actions as an
adult.  You have a different and worse set of expectations and changes
being imposed upon you than you have later in life.  

The important adults (parents, teachers, minister/priests) have a
responsibility NOT to take actions that will cause kids to hate
themselves.  Nurturing is the job of a parent, not instilling
self-hate.

--
Andrew Werling on Planet Yip    awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"Get out your cross and dance!"  --Gruntruck, "Crucifunkin'"
From:  (Bill Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Eagle Court of Honor
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:45:22 GMT
Followup-To: eagle court of honor
Organization: Scoutmaster-The Vertical Edge

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
From: smb@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Steve M. Burinsky)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Order of the Arrow
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:14:11 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <pkteagarden.33@bobcat.lmc.edu> pkteagarden@bobcat.lmc.edu (Phil Teagarden) writes:
>
>Scouting in America has degenerated into somethning of a JOKE.  I can 
>truthfully say that I am (almost) ashame of admitting to being an Eagle 
>Scout and a member of the OA.  American Indians have no right to be upset 
>about painting the body!  Since when do Indians (they're not Native 
>Americans) have a cornor on paint?  Symbolism? Etc...

I can truthfully say that I am (certainly) ashamed of *you* admitting
to being an Eagle Scout and a member of the OA.

-- 

Steve M. Burinsky
smb@afterlife.ncsc.mil