HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:18:16 GMT

addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison) writes:
>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>}   Most such $1000 systems come with 2M of RAM.  To run OS/2 well, you need
>}only add 6M, which is about $200-$250 at today's prices.  It has also been 
>}mentioned that OS/2 will fit well onto a 60M drive, as long as you aren't
>}trying to fit 40M of C++ development tools onto it as well.  60M SCSI drives
>}can be had for $250 these days.
>
>What good is VM if you don't have any harddisk space left?

Hah, that is an excellent question.

I have been looking at various 486 systems, and I have found that it is not
nearly as inexpensive as one my think to get a "powerhouse" system.  You need
lots of RAM, lots of disk space, a good video card, sound card, etc.  Although
these things are fairly cheap individually,
	cheap + cheap + cheap = not_so_cheap.
I could get a good 486 system for under $2000 if I only wanted to run PD
software.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:00:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.174707.12915@cs.rose-hulman.edu> catapcnl@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Chris Lawrence) writes:
>AmigaOS has the advantage in that you don't have to load it from disk (well, at  
>least 90% of us don't...).  Also, try running OS/2 on a base-level PC system.   
>It won't even run on the (relatively fast) VGA-based 386SX-16mhz clowns that  
>are sold today at $1000, without another $500 of ram and a good sized HD for  
>another $500. 

   Most such $1000 systems come with 2M of RAM.  To run OS/2 well, you need
only add 6M, which is about $200-$250 at today's prices.  It has also been 
mentioned that OS/2 will fit well onto a 60M drive, as long as you aren't
trying to fit 40M of C++ development tools onto it as well.  60M SCSI drives
can be had for $250 these days.

> The Amiga base system (as low as $500) can run KS 2.04, which  
>matches up favorably to OS/2.

   In what respects?  AmigaOS 2.04 does not have virtual memory (which means
that Amigas are limited in their usefulness for image processing and 
manipulation), does not have memory protection (which means that one badly
written screen blanker could destroy many hours of a user's work), does not
have retargetable graphics (which means that all Amiga users are limited to
720x480 graphics with 16 colors out of 4096 for most productive applications,
unless the user is willing to put up with four on-screen colors, slower screen
updates, a 64-color color palette, and bad flicker of Super HiRes, or unless 
the user is willing to plunk down $2000-$8000 for an Amiga third-party
video card with an unstable third-party-written non-supported-by-Commodore 
RTG system), an AmigaOS does not have anywhere near the variety of
applications available for it.

   The comparison of the debate between OS/2 and AmigaOS to the debate between
AmigaOS and AtariOS is a very apt one, because OS/2 really does make AmigaOS
look like AtariOS.  It is quite simply a far more advanced and modern 
operating system.
 
>--
>Chris Lawrence
>Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
>-----------------------------------------------
>"Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to  
>teenage boys."
>     - P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 68000 ALU
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:04:02 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: North Carolina State University

John Ata FSO writes:
>kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>>I've asked this question before, and I'll ask it again:  If the 68000
>>>as a 16 bit ALU, then why is it that I notice no difference in instruction
>>>timing between:
>>>      add.w           #1,d5
>>>              and
>>>      add.l           #1,d5
>>
>>Hi.  That's not a good test of the ALU size, as an add.l must inherently
>>take longer to execute on a 68000 because it has to fetch another word
>>from memory.  
>
>Why does it have to fetch another word from memory?  I thought it would
>add 1 to register d5...Am I missing something?

Yes, I think you might be thinking that "add #1" is an "increment" command.
It's not... it's a general "add" command.  So the cpu must get from memory
whatever the number is that you're wanting to add to d5.  

Now since the 68000 has a 16-bit data path, it'll get a word if you're
adding bytes or words, and get two separate words if you're adding a long.
Therefore adding a long value requires an extra memory access:

 COMMAND        68K OPCODE
 add.w #1,d5  = $DA7C 0001      = 1 word opcode + 1 word operand
 add.l #1,d5  = $DABC 0000 0001 = 1 word opcode + 2 word operand

So in theory (and in fact), "add.l" from memory should take more time than
"add.w" from memory, on a 68000.  It sounds like your compiler is taking
the "add.l" and notices that the operand is less than or equal to 8, which
means a faster version (a specialized increment command) can be substituted:

 addq.l #1,d5 = $5285 = special 1 word opcode with embedded operand of "#1"

Which should be extra fast because the whole code is contained in one word,
but the 16-bit ALU of the 68000 slows it back down to add.w speed.

As someone else mentioned, a better test to try would've been something like
"add.w d1,d5" and "add.l d1,d5", since both of those have same-length codes
($DA41 and $DA81, respectively), and don't access memory for operands.

best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: ron_s@verifone.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Beware A&M Repair!!!
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:36:46 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI


Beware of A&M Repair, Amiga persons!!!!

1. I sent my trusty A2000 to A&M repair, of New Windsor
      New York, because it would not boot.  I had read
      their ad in Amigaworld which said "24 hour turnaround"
      then said a prayer ans sent it.

      After 2 months they returned the A2000 to me, completely
      trashed,  with a broken power supply, broken and missing
      motherboard fuses, broken chip sockets, etc. It was sad
      to see.  I had a technician look at it to verify the damage.

2. No one at A&M will talk to me, or answer my repeated phone
    calls. The pres. is Mike Cugan--- are you out there Mike??
    I would like to settle this peacefully.  I have called
    1-800-344-4102 about 30 times thus far and left messages.

3. Thus far I have written to the Better Business Bureau, the
    Bureau of Consumer Protection, and to the editor of AmigaWorld,
    as well as to Mike Cugan at A&M Repair, and can only sit
     and wait for the slow wheels of justice to turn.
     I would welcome a call from anyone at A&M to resolve
     this, I'm really not angry, just astonished and saddened
     but the rude treatment.

-- 
 
**  Ron_S - Ron Scholze Jr.   Verifone, Honolulu
            Blessed turns the solar tune of years
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ethan Solomita (was Re: LEAVE MARC BARRET ALONE!)
Date: 25 Jul 1992 17:03:01 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <kdarling.711933208@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>>>
>>	It is good to see that some things never change. 8-)
>>	-- Ethan
>Sure do miss you around here, Ethan!   No one to argue with about CD-I ;-)

Well, if you want someone to argue with about CD-I...

The impression that I got from a friend of mine who is developing software
for CD-I is that the developer support sucks!

My friend explained that the attitude he finds at OptImage (not sure of the
spelling/spacing/capitalization) is rather cavalier.  Apparently, they
charge thousands of dollars for developer tools for CD-I, but fail to
fix bugs.  My friend says that they basically expect developers to work
around the bugs.  Well, actually my friend says its more like "the work-
around _is_ the bug fix."

I'm not exactly sure of the origin of OptImage or its relationship with
Philips.  I thought I heard that part if it used to be Microware, but I
could be wrong.

On the other hand, my friend says that PIMA (Philips Interactive Media,
America) [which used to be AIM (American Interactive Media)] actually
tries to be helpful.  But my friend says that he sometimes feels like
he is beta-testing parts of the CD-I system that nobody else is using.

OK, Kevin, you were lamenting the lack of an argument.  :-)

Now, if you want to flame me, just keep in mind that I'm only expressing
my friends opinions filtered through my perceptions.  And don't make
assumptions about who I am just from my email address.  You've done that
before.

>Now, if you know where Mike Farren is these days, we'll all be happy!

You know, I'd be curious as to what he is up to.  I've actually talked
with him, and he seemed to know his stuff.  He did post here for a
while after he was no longer employed at the big C.

>regards - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>

--Richard
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are *HOT*
Date: 25 Jul 92 21:31:47 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

>>>  Maybe you should just buy a Powerbook 100 Greg :-)
>>>  $899 for a 4/40 version at Price Club.

	Powerbook... yecch!  The keyboard is cheesy, the trackball sucks,
the screen updates are dog slow, the boot time is long....  I'd rather go
into debt and buy a full-size Mac than this PowerBook toy.

	The above is all just my opinion.  You are welcome to disagree.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

ps:	Gleeep is really, really coming.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: troy@bluemoon.rn.com (Troy Fridley)
Subject: Re: blah (WAS: Re: Wing Commander I ?)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 03:15:57 EDT

pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:

> In article <1992Jul21.071039.3007@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.
> >> Actually PC's are getting VERY CHEAP so your point here is void as well.
> >> A 50mhz Gateway 2000 with a 100MB HD and SVGA can be got at about $3000.
> >> That's the high end (since you mentioned Suns).  Lets not get into
> >> the 386SX clones.  I've seen one 25mhz machine with 3megs of RAM and a
> >> 50meg HD for under $1500.  (I think it was the BSD 386SX)
> >>
> >	A guy wearing a long trenchcoat came up to me while I was
> >	getting into my car after work.  He said "Hey buddy, want
> >	to buy a PC; cheap?"  He pulled open his trenchcoat and-you guessed
> >	it-  There were dozens of PC clowns HANGING INSIDE!  Well,
> >	people warned me about these types....
> 
> Dell 325SX
>   - 386SX-25 CPU
>   - 2MB RAM
>   - 640x480 VGA monitor
>   - 80MB HD
>   - HD floppy (your choice 3.5 or 5.25)
>   - MS-DOS 5.00
>   - Full Dell support
> 
>   - $1,149
> 
> Dell Dimension 386SX/25
>   - 386SX-25 CPU
>   - 4MB RAM
>   - SVGA w/ 0.28 monitor (1024x768 interlaced)
>   - 80MB HD
>   - Dual floppy drives (3.5", 5.25")
>   - MS-DOS 5/MS-Windows 3.1
>   - Microsoft Mouse
>   - Full Dell support
> 
>   - $1,359 ($1,549 for same but 386DX-33 CPU)
>     $2,299 (same system but 486DX-33, 212MB HD, NI monitor)
> -- 
> Niven's Law #14:   There exist minds that think as well as you do, but
>                    differently.
> Niven's Corollary: The gene-tampered turkey you're talking to isn't
>                    necessarily one of them.


Why are we advertising for our Favorite Clones here? How about we start up 
an Amiga Awarness Group that We can put the current prices up on? 
alt.comp.amiga.prices?

                Troy

  Does one actually need a brain to think?  Obviously Not!
 
 UUCP: Troy@Bluemoon.uucp
From: bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:54:27 GMT

In <1992Jul26.191956.2642@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>   That isn't very much of an excuse.  Even discounting the two or three Macs
>with '020s and 16-bit memory, that still leaves about an 8-to-1 advantage of
>full 32-bit Macs to full 32-bit Amigas, with all of the 32-bit hardware on the
>motherboard.

Um, I think it's more like 6 to 3 in favour of Apple. I would count the two
versions of the A2500 as 32-bit, even though they have 16-bit SCSI/custom
chips. 

>    There are nearly as many Mac models that have 8/24 bit color on the 
>motherboard as there are Amiga models total.  The Mac LC, LC II, IIsi, IIci, 
>and all Quadras have built-in color video (Quadras have built-in full 24-bit
>color video).

So what? Neither the IIsi or IIci at work are running in colour mode. They are
using mono (well, maybe 4 shades of grey) Portrait Displays. 

>   That is a concern to far fewer people than you'd think.  Commodore seems to
>agree, as the only other Amiga besides the A3000 that has built-in hard drive
>capability -- the A600 -- uses a comparitively slow non-DMA IDE hard drive.

The A2500 has a built-in HD. And for Pete's sake, what's wrong with having
to have a plug-in card for your SCSI? That gives you a choice.

>The market has moved beyond laptops to notebook
>computers, and nothing else will be satisfactory.

I personally would disagree - there will always be a place for those big hulks
of computers like the A2000, because they have so much room for expansion, and
don't have to worry about running out of battery power like the PowerBook in
work did today while I was trying to print a document.... :-(

>   Too bad the cheapest of the video boards is more expensive than most full-
>blown Macintosh systems these days.  And too bad the unstable hacks they use
>to achieve DIG/RTG are not supported by Commodore.

I believe it is the same with accelerated video cards on the Mac - they can
only speed up key areas of QuickDraw for fear Apple will change the finer
points and render their card obsolete. Only Apple can speed up the entire
Quickdraw library, since only they have access to the source code.

>   Then I take it that you won't be buying any Amigas ever again, because the
>new ones will likely have better than 12-bit color built-in and you don't like
>to have that capability included as standard hardware?

Probably quite true. I have just invested a great deal of money in a high-
powered A2000 machine, and don't intend upgrading until I leave college. If the
new machines are also high-powered (have to have an fast LP120S! ;-) ), and are
cheap enough, with real fast screen updating, I *may* consider buying one, but
I'm not an artist... I also have some degree of compatability with this machine
(68000 fallback mode) - a sore disadvantage when you want to play the odd game
on an A3000. 

>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu

Barry.
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:24:20 GMT
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <mykes.0a7s@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.182121.29046@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>> Now Warner with many BILLIONS of cash is putting Atari name
>> all over TV, movie and magazine world!
>>
>
>Correct me (anyone I could trust :) if I am wrong, but doesn't Warner own
>shares in Atari Corp. the coin-op company and NOT Atari Computers, owned
>by Tramiel?


You're right.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC World's John C. Dvorak Speaks Out...
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:51:13 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:

>Pournelle will be brutally honest...

>But, I wish I had his money!  Whee... a network inside the house... whee,
>wait, hmm... that TT looks interesting... I think I'll buy it... hmm...
>maybe mention it in passing in my column.  Whee, I can have one of everything
>I want.

  You're kidding yourself if you think that Jerry has bought much, if any, of
the hardware and software in his upstairs cavern. 

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:05:08 GMT

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
: CD-RTOS doesn't have VM at all (not wanted in a realtime system)...
: nor does it enable its small MMU for MP, as far as I know.

I've seen source code that enables both VM and MP, and it works well,
for CD-RTOS (I'd be damned if I could remember that name).  It's not
totally finished yet, but it is relatively well-written and designed.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Need Help - 50 Hz flickers
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:43:23 GMT
Organization: private Amiga Site

In article <1992Jul21.093357.1475@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>In <gromyko.03oa@sputnik.rhein-main.de> gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom) writes:
>>Shit, you really don't know what you're talking about.
>>Needless to say that PAL is superior!(compared to NTSC)
>>Come, and have a look at a german TV set. I think you know
>>damn shit about PAL.
>
>That is probably a true point.

>
>>To the best of my knowledge, there exist several flickerfixers wich
>>can output video to a multisync upto 100Hz in noninterlace 640x256, using
>>software to control the agnus chip. Well, multisyncs capable of managing
>>frequencies upto 100Hz may be quite expensive.
>
>But this has nothing to do with PAL or the complaints about PAL.

Maybe right. They were complaining the flicker coming along with PAL.

>
>Regards,
>--
>Michael van Elst
>UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
>Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
>                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

regards,
	Michael
--
- Michael Grom -gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de-FRG 6000 Frankfurt 60__
________________ (voice:)+49 69 44 12 87      Roederbergweg 136_  ///gib DOS
...is clearly a |____________________________________________ \\\///   keine
     need for emotional decontamination and mental correction| \XX/ CHANCE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:    Amiga Future?!?
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:12:24 GMT
Organization: private Amiga Site

In article <192108@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>In article <gromyko.03p5@sputnik.rhein-main.de>, gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom) writes:
[NUMEROUS LINE DELETED]

>>>>	* bigger harddisk to store your few Windows Apps on

>Several thousand is "few"?  You're right about the larger size of Windows
                      ^^^^
>apps, though.  Along with that large size, you get additional functionality
>and ease of use.
Its the enormous size of Windows apps that let you store a less count
of them onto  the hardddisk. I do not agree with you in the latter.
Size is not always related to functionality, and ease of use is what
every Windows application claims to be but seldomly is.


>>>>	* faster harddisks to speed up swapping

>No, just more memory for a larger disk cache.

You cannot resolve the problem of hard drive access with bigger and
bigger caches. Okay, I double the size of my smartdrv.sys chache and wait
and see the results, if any.
I suggest any System utilizing VM or swapping shall be equipped with
*VERY* fast harddisks/adaptors. This is especially true for Windows,
wich seems to access the disk every time you flip from/to icon<->window etc.

>>>All of this is available for well under $2500 from a top-notch dealer
>>>(Dell 486P/33 - 486DX-33, 4MB RAM, 170MB 17ms HD, SVGA, $2199)
>>
>> Nice price. But 4MB isn't enough to run Windows sufficiently. As I have
>> mentioned earlier, to speed up graphic you need an 'intelligent' graphics
>> board.  This will easily exceed the amount of $2199 :)
>
>Well, actually, 4 MB is enough to run Windows.  I should know--that's the
>amount I have in my machine.  Even so, you can add another 4 MB for $150
>and the intelligent graphics board for $250.
I do run Windows with 6MB and I wonder if it's enough. May somebody
at this point explain what is regarded as 'system recources', because
I run down to 0% of 'system resources' while having approx. 7400 MB
(VM ?) free...yes, sometimes torturing my IBM is very pleasant to me! :D

Regards,

	Michael
--
- Michael Grom -gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de-FRG 6000 Frankfurt 60__
________________ (voice:)+49 69 44 12 87      Roederbergweg 136_  ///gib DOS
...is clearly a |____________________________________________ \\\///   keine
     need for emotional decontamination and mental correction| \XX/ CHANCE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:27:57 GMT

I don't think comparing OS/2 to AmigaDOS 2.04 is reasonable... they're
oriented towards completely different markets.

Personally, I don't see why anyone would run OS/2 on anything less than
a 486-33 ($600 or less for the motherboard), considering that most 
applications targeted for the OS/2 market are likely to cost in the
multiple hundreds, and thus if you can afford them, you can certainly
afford the CPU upgrade to improve your efficiency by about 10x or more.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy