HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
Subject: Chickens
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:50:32 GMT

Vaguely remember seeing a thread on this subject...

My wife and I are considering acquiring some Hens (for personal egg
consumption) and are complete chicken-rookies.  Assuming the real technical
issues can be answered later, there are a few simple questions:

We live in an area (S. Oregon) that has mild seasons.  It's regularly over
100 deg in July/August (no rain) and gets below freezing about 75-100
nights.  It rarely gets below 20 degrees, and almost always hits 40-50
during the coldest days.  We have 20 acres of 'forest' with a few clearings
including a 1/3 acre fenced garden/orchard.  There are no predators to
speak of (not counting our dog, whom I assume we can train to leave them
alone).

1) Can chickens 'survive' without daily care?  Can we leave for a few days
without needing chicken sitters?

2) Do they need a 'pen' or can they range free?  (I guess we'd never find
the eggs)

3) Whats the 'laying life' of a hen?  Are we going to be butchering them
all the time?  (We don't eat much meat, but there's a wildlife center
nearby whose raptors just love chicken)

4) Can they tolerate occasional freezing weather, or do we need to build
them a heated coop (anybody have any solar-coop plans?)?

5) Could we just keep them in the garden/orchard?  Do they eat vegetables
(assuming they have the choice of other food)?

6) How many (or few) chickens could supply a modest supply for a two person
family (dozen a week)?

7) What other deep/dark secrets are there we should know?  We already know
they are loud and create manure (for the garden).

8) Maybe most important, how do eggs measure up as an efficient
energy/resource consumer (e.g. how much 'energy' of feed/water makes an
equivalent measure of eggs?)?  For example, we wouldn't raise beef for that
reason. [please no anti-environmental flames over this one!]

Thanks in advance for the no doubt forthcoming expertise...


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bob@copi.cmhnet.org (Bob Williams)
Subject: Mowing the driveway
Keywords: herbicide, environment
Organization: Coordinated Office Programs
Distribution: misc
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:48:25 GMT

Hey netters,

I have some land I plan to build a house on in the coming years.  Last year,
we put in a driveway and a pole barn/garage.  We go out there every few weeks
in the summer, and mow about 2 acres (mostly around the barn, and in the back,
by the creek).

Since we're only there occasionally, driving on the driveway doesn't keep the
weeds down.

So I don't have to mow it (the driveway) anymore, I'm looking for a herbicide
that'll kill the weeds, but not persist and kill all sorts of other things, too.

There's a creek that's about 100 yards downhill from where my driveway hits the
road, and I really don't want to dump nasty poisons into it.

Any suggestions?

Answers, suggestions should be emailed to me, and I'll post a summary in a
few weeks.

Anti-environmental flames should be directed to /dev/null...

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  _   
   //    // // // // //   Bob Williams
  //    // // //_// //    bob@copi.cmhnet.org
 //__  //_// //    //     Coordinated Office Programs, Inc.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:56:42 GMT

 * By you line of reasoning, every country should maintain a complete and
 * independent agricultural industry in order to protect their
 * "civilization."  Therefore, the Japanese, Europeans, Russians, Arabs,
 * Africans and Mexicans should ban imports of North American food
 * products in order to protect their own inefficient argricultural
 * industries. 

 * I applaud your choice to live on a farm.  Just don't expect us to pay
 * for it!

 * regards,
 * fletcher

The Japanese *do* prohibit the importation of rice. If things ever get bad 
everywhere, they'll be bad in Japan too, but at least the Japanese will
have something to eat. 

I, too, applaud the original posters choice to live on a farm. And I am
willing to pay for it.

-Mike

Xref: sparky misc.rural:2050 misc.kids:22996
From: john@n7kbt.rain.com (John Opalko)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:21:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: n7kbt.4294
Distribution: usa
Organization: Two strange people in Forest Grove, OR

In article <1992Sep9.232452.7217@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:
>In article <HOLLEN.92Sep9152210@peg.megatek.UUCP> hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
>>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?
>Roughly 200 ft by 200 ft. It's 4200 sq ft I think.

An acre is a measure of area; it can have any exterior dimensions that result
in it having an area of 43,560 sq ft.  200 x 200 is pretty close.

>>3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?
>Well, a mile is 5280 sq ft, so 1/4 mi is 1320 ft, or about 6 200 fts.
>So I'd say 6x6=36. Since one of your exact answers was 40, I'd say
>the answer is 40.

A plot 1/4 mi by 1/4 mi is 1/16 sq mi = 1,742,400 sq ft = 40 acres.

Another way of figuring it out is to know that 1 sq mi (1 section) has 640
acres.  640 / 16 = 40.  This is probably easier than messing around with
square feet.

-- 
John Opalko

john@n7kbt.rain.com  -or-  wi.5327@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: DOE vs Corn Growers
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:54:53 GMT

	A resent piece on the radio mentioned that the DOE (or is that EPA?)
is bypassing ethanol for reformulated gassoline because of increased immessions.
The Corn Growers Assoc is trying to get the EPA to change its mind.  Does anyone
know more about this.  I would also like the address of the Corn Growers if anyone
has   it.

	DonB
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jwoodard@nmsu.edu (Jeff Woodard)
Subject: Computers on the Farm
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: misc.rural
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:59:20 GMT

With all of this discussion on Real Farms, Capital Suicide, and all of
this, I was wondering how many farms are using computers for
management. I'm involved in research developing crop disease forecast
models on the computer, specifically Web Blotch of Valencia A Peanuts.
At the last peanut commission meeting, I asked the group (mostly
growers) how many were using computers. Only 1 person raised his hand,
and he was the Borden peanut processor.
	As a software developer of agricultural programs, that
concerned me. Obviously, a lot of misc.rural folks use computers, but
the .sigs usually have NASA/Aeronotics/High Tech type references.
Anyway, my main question is of the growers/processors, what type of
platform is used i.e. workstation vs. PC. I know that Doan's publishes
a rather large list of agricultural programs, for PC's, but what does
the real market look like out there?

Just Random Thoughts
C 'ya
	Woody
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Reply-To: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:59:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.181651.20829@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU
(Jim Heath) writes:
> From article <1992Sep11.093052@IASTATE.EDU>, by darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W
Archer):
> > However, there are some other things to consider.  There is a national
> > interest in preserving a stable food supply.  There is a fundamental
> > difference between depending on foreign sources for something such as
> > oil compared to depending on foreign sources for food.  If we beleive
> > that there is the possibility that these sources will be cut off, then
> > people CAN survive without oil, but they CANNOT survive without food.
> > Also, the effects of abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers would likely
> > result in some significant shifts in regional economies.  Although society
> > as a whole may benefit, alot of individual families would be devistated.
> >
> 
> I don't think oil is a good example here.  I don't think American
> farmers could produce nearly as much food without
> oil/gasoline/diesel for their combines and tractors.  Isn't oil,
> curiously enough, used to make fertilizer as well? 

You are right.  American agriculture is extremely petroleum dependant.
A better example would be something like automobiles.
From: Nigel Griffith <nigeljan@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Date: 04 Sep 92 01:10 PDT
Subject: address correction to "questions f
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1427600003:000:84
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!nigeljan    Sep  4 01:10:00 1992


Address correction to previous entry/posting.. sorry, first time
user thru gateway.

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: Re: Letter from a former misc.ruralite
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:05:40 GMT


In article <18kuc5INNqaq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill) writes:
|> From: cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill)
|> Subject: Letter from a former misc.ruralite
|> Date: 9 Sep 92 13:31:49 GMT
|> 
|> 
|> I recently received the following letter from a former misc.rural
|> participant and rural wannabe who's now raising sheep in Virginia.  I
|> thought it would be of interest to misc.rural (especially wannabes), and
|> Bernie gave me permission to post it.
|> 
|> Let me know if you'd like me post further correspondence from Bernie.
|> 
|> ----
|> From: Bernie Cosell
|> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:56:10 EST
|> 
|> This shepherding stuff is too hard [and emotionally taxing]...  We're in
|> the midst of a new round of mishap in the almost constant


		Awful, icky  sheep story deleted

But I thought I'd better post bernie's follow up:

--------------- Forwarded Msg...

	Message 64/65  From bpc!bernie                         Sep 4 '92 at 10:44 pm est


Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:44:24 EST
Organization: Fantasy Farm

Subject: Another bullet dodged

Well, the worming seems to have worked.  So we are once again at that
apparently rare plateau: all of the sheep are healthy at once.  It is
fairly impressive how wide the swings are: from mellow and alls-right-with
-the-world, to complete doom-and-gloom with one cough from a lamb.
Lynn and I can both tell already that come our first lambing, next April,
we're both going to be basket cases.
  /b\

------------------ End of (current) saga -------------



-- 
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

	...Wex
From: "lois laulicht" <lois.laulicht@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: composting
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:13:21 EST
Reply-To: "lois laulicht" <lois.laulicht@channel1.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

Ours is the lazy and I guess some what imperfect way to compost.

Slight depression in the earth very near our garden and creek.

All stuff gets piled on and covered damp with black plastic weighted
w/rocks. We add thru season and recover w/ very small amount of
mixing. (That's work!) We keep several piles going simultaneously and
use the oldest batch first.  Adding a few shovelfuls of rotten cow
manure also speed up process.  Drainage and heat are the essentials.

-lois
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.25 #10184  Perot petitioners hang together to keep 'em honest
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: sysmatt@aix3090b.uky.edu (Matt Simpson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:19:37 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

I worked on one of those humongous grain farms in Saskatchewan for two
summers. The climate is OK for grains such as wheat or barley, although
the rainfall and soil moisture are inadequate to raise a crop every year.
Most land is rested every 2 years, not every 7. A typical Canada grain farm
will have half it's land in grain and half fallow every year. The fallow
half is cultivated all summer to keep weeds out.
The climate is not conducive to corn or other crops. We can not expect
Canada to replace the agricultural production lost in the US as our farm
land is taken over by yuppies.
It's true that folks want to move "to the country". This causes all sorts of
problems. Obviously, the land given up to urban sprawl is lost to agriculture.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg. It usually isn't economically feasible
to run sewer lines out that far. So residential developments are built using
"package plants" or septic tanks, which usually fail and contaminate ground
water and streams, causing problems for farmers relying on those sources to
water their livestock.
One reason folks move to the country is so their dogs will have room to roam.
When you get lots of houses with dogs in an area, you get packs of dogs, which
are another serious threat to livestock.
You also get wandering children/teenagers. Here you have a potential for
vandalism from bored children from the local subdivision wandering through
the place. You also have a potential for lawsuits when a trespassing child
(or adult) gets hurt on your farm.
Then, of course, all those folks who wanted to live "in the country" find out
what country living really is, and they don't like it. It's narrow country
roads with slow-moving farm vehicles which slow them down as they make that
rushed commute back to their city job. So they want to improve the roads and/or
ban farm vehicles from the roads. Then they find Domino's doesn't deliver that
far out, so they want shopping centers built. Then they don't like the
noises/odors from their agricultural neighbors, so they want restrictive
legislation to ban agricultural activities.
It's going to become harder for the farmers that are left to continue farming.

--
This signature file exists because our crappy newsreader won't work without it.
From: fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:43:34
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
	<1992Sep5.053020.22472@nuscc.nus.sg>
	<1992Sep9.123659.23270@dg-rtp.dg.com>
	<BuD2LF.7s5@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
	<FKITTRED.92Sep10134034@spchp11.BBN.COM>
	<1992Sep10.175642.7203@hubcap.clemson.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp11.bbn.com
In-reply-to: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu's message of 10 Sep 92 17:56:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.175642.7203@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
Path: news.bbn.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!hubcap!hubcap
   From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
   Newsgroups: misc.rural
   Date: 10 Sep 92 17:56:42 GMT
   References: <1992Sep4.175146.8815@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> 	<1992Sep5.053020.22472@nuscc.nus.sg> 	<1992Sep9.123659.23270@dg-rtp.dg.com> 	<BuD2LF.7s5@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> <FKITTRED.92Sep10134034@spchp11.BBN.COM>
   Organization: Clemson University
   Lines: 22



>   The Japanese *do* prohibit the importation of rice. If things ever get bad 
>   everywhere, they'll be bad in Japan too, but at least the Japanese will
>   have something to eat. 

And North American agriculture is putting major trade pressure on Japan to
drop this restriction.  Have you ever hear of the acronym GATT?


>   I, too, applaud the original posters choice to live on a farm. And I am
>   willing to pay for it.

I suggest you start a non-profit organisation.

regards,
fletcher
--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Manure, Well Done
Date: 5 Sep 1992 03:26:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Just read an interesting article would like to pass on.  We all
know manure is a great fertilizer and composter etc.
Turns out those "bioremediation" or "biodegradation" researchers,
scientists trying to find ways to use exotic bacteria cultures,
some occurring naturally already, others "invented" by bio-
technology, etc....anyway those researchers have found they
can take soil contaminated by diesel oil and mix it in a 
compost heap with plenty of good ole steer manure...and presto..
a few months down the road...diesel has disappeared from the
soil.
Manure, well done.
-- 
            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: gmd@cbnews.cb.att.com (george.m.dunham)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:07:07 GMT
Summary: 1 acre = 43560 sq. ft.


There are 640 acres in 1 square mile.
A 160 acre square parcel is 1/2 mile on a side.
A 40 acre square parcel is 1/4 mile on a side.
A 1 acre square parcel is about 208.71033 feet on a side.
-- 
    | George M. Dunham      work (614) 860-5241          AT&T, Room 3B-202 |
    | att!cblph!gmd         home (614) 927-8560        6200 East Broad St. |
    | or, gmd@cblph.ATT.COM                         Columbus OH 43213-1550 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: scotbri@flower.rosemount.com (Scott Brigham)
Subject: Nigel Griffith's return address
Originator: scotbri@flower
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:13:20 GMT


Nigel Griffith posted some questions a few days back but seems to have a
problem with his return address.  For those who tried to respond to his
post, his mail address should be nigeljan@igc.org.

Xref: sparky misc.rural:2089 misc.kids:23231
From: Gene.Fusco@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Gene Fusco)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:01:49 GMT
	<1992Sep9.232452.7217@trentu.ca>
Reply-To: Gene.Fusco@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: xtkmg@trentu.ca's message of 9 Sep 92 23:24:52 GMT

>>>>> On 9 Sep 92 23:24:52 GMT, xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) responds
to a question:

>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?

>> Roughly 200 ft by 200 ft. It's 4200 sq ft I think.

Almost correct.  The dimensions along the side are 208'-9".
This gives 43,560 sq ft.  You were off by an order of magnitude 
there.  So much for estimation.

BTW, an acre is defined as 1/640 of a square mile. So, an area 
that measures 1/4 square mile (1/2 mile per side) would have 160 
acres.  

>> This is why I've crossposted to misc.kids, where we're discussing
>> whether estimating should be taught before 5 digit arithmetic.
>> This was all done in my head.

Always check your work before handing in an assignment.

>> Kate

Gene
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gene Fusco        | (303) 223-5100 x404	     Gene.Fusco@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
S/W Development	  |
NCR MPD		  | It's at times like these that I wish I had listened to
Fort Collins CO.  | what my mother told me.....
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: rcarter@gaudi.nas.nasa.gov (Russell L. Carter)
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:14:56 GMT

In article <FKITTRED.92Sep11162827@spchp11.BBN.COM> fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
>
> From article <1992Sep11.093052@IASTATE.EDU>, by darcher@IASTATE.EDU
>               (David W Archer):
>
>> Also, the effects of abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers would likely
>> result in some significant shifts in regional economies.  Although society
>> as a whole may benefit, alot of individual families would be devistated.
>
>I don't think this is a complete argument.  The flip side is that the
>subsidies are going to have to end one way or another.  They have
>become to large a burden for the world to bear.  The longer the
>subsidies last, the harder the pain of the dislocation will be.  The
>dislocation can not be avoided and it would be better for all
>concerned it happened now, not after billions of dollars have been
>spent to prop up un-economic farms.

During the first 80 years or so of this
century, this continent saw the largest migration of people from
rural areas to urban areas, historically, ever.  People in cities
require a lot of infrastructure to survive at even poverty levels.
People in rural areas, don't.  Quite frankly, I'd rather pay
significantly to have opportunities for people to make a living
growing food in rural areas, than pay just as significantly to
have them living on my doorstep in the city, which is what they
do now.  And imagine, they might be better citizens were they
actually able to contribute in an unskilled way to their own
survival.

>
>This dislocation has been a constant theme throughout human history.
>I happen to work in an industry (computers) and in a region of the
>world (New England) which is undergoing such a dislocation.  The human
>cost is great, but can only be avoided at greater cost.  As economic
>systems grow and evolve, I don't see how you are going to avoid it.
>Remember Calamute!

When you lose your job, and are flipping burgers, you might have
a different perspective on things.  That comment was perhaps a tad
vicious, but dislocations are that way.  Limit cases like Mexico
City are not my idea of a rosy future, even if that's where at least
one Bostonian seems to want to go.  Remember the Luddites!

>
>regards,
>fletcher

Likewise,
Russell
Newsgroups: misc.rural,alt.cesium
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Followup-To: misc.rural
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:28:54 GMT
Distribution: usa

Unix has an interesting little command (since version 6)  it's called
units(6).  It's normally in the games directory, but was recently moved
to /usr/bin.  Useful for conversion.  Areal and volumetric conversions
take a little getting used to.

And then there is this nice little bc calculator for arbitrary precision
arithmetic......  You can tell who runs on Unix systems because of this.
[This is why the alt.cesium cross post.]

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon ... psychohistorian)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:41:50 GMT

In <Sep10.152820.91163@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:

>      Draw a square 1 unit per side.  Divide each side in half.  There are
>      now 4 squares, but the sides of each square are 1/2 a unit long.
>      Divide each side of each square in half again.  Eureka.  16 squares,
>      each of which has sides 1/4 unit long.

>     John Cooley

>     Is this hard?!?

to many people this is indead hard. many people (no matter how it's explained)
refuse to believe that an area 1/4 on a side is not the same as 1/4 of an area.
but then the funniest thing i ever heard was on an old show called the newly
wed game. the question was 'from your bedroom window, from which direction
does the sun rise?' well folks from 4 couples no women? (i think thats who
was ased the question) and only 1 man could correctly answer that very
difficult question.

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu