HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Archers: a beginner's guide (was Re: Archers - FAQ)
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:43:10 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Nov6.090722.626@aber.ac.uk> dpl@aber.ac.uk (David Philip Langstaff) writes:
>
>Since then, Robin has been doing his best to avoid Caroline.
>

Yaaay!

Not any more! :-) :-)

M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15515 alt.folklore.urban:27916
From: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us (S. Mudgett aka little gator)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Can the Prime Minster be Catholic?
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:00:04 GMT
Reply-To: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
Organization: gators 'r us
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992

In <lfqsm6INNa86@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, Trelford Pinkerton writes:
>
>Well, has there ever been a Catholic prime minister of Britain?
and if so, was he famous?  are there catholic gerbils in california?
-- 
-- little gator aka s. mudgett     email: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15712 soc.culture.celtic:7282
From: cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk (Colin Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:36:05 GMT
Organization: BT

In article <A.Grant.24.721429206@ucs.cam.ac.uk>, A.Grant@ucs.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
|> But why is Scotland special?  Should children be allowed to write essays
|> in Cockney rhyming slang?  

Scotland is a nation. Cockney is the speech of a particular section of society
in a particular region of England. In the end, though, the contexts in which
Cockney is used ought to be for those who speak it to decide.

|> On the contrary, I think it's tragic that Scots and Gaelic aren't viable
|> languages, and that teaching them at the expense of French, German, Latin or 
|> Japanese, out of nothing more than a vague feeling of lost roots by
|> the previous generation, would be a serious disservice to the next one.
|>

What is this idea that you have invented of a "viable language"? Why have
you concluded that this description does not apply to Scots and Gaelic? Is
Danish, which has a similar number of speakers to Scots, a "viable language"
or should its speakers abandon it in favour of German or English? 

|> Teaching them as part of a programme to revitalise Scotland in general, and
|> instil a new sense of national identity, is something else altogether.

Well I never: light is finally starting to dawn. You might even begin
to understand that the suppression of Scots and Gaelic has been part of
a grinding down necessary to keep Scotland in its place in the "union"
with England, which has now outlived any usefulness it might ever have
had - for Scotland at least. To revitalise our nation, we need to break
loose from the psychological chains that hold us back, and the
normalisation of our national languages will be a vital part of the
process.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15352 alt.folklore.urban:27648
From: dvp@getafix (Dave Parry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:36:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: ICL, Bracknell, Berks, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> (what is this doing in Urban Folklore?)
> 
> linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes:
> 
>    The cup of liberty passed on to the American people, who had the
>    same thirst as the British, but were more successful in satisfying it
>    a century later.
> 
> More poppycock.
> 
The book 'The Temple and the Lodge' makes some interesting assertions
about the War of Independance and the creation of the American Constitution.
It says that many of the Generals in the American and Bristish armies
actually belonged to the same Masonic Lodges (in the New World) and that
within these lodges, much bargaining over the course of the war was
performed - according to this book, King George was very much in the
minority in England in wanting to deny the Americans their independance.

Anyway, the point was that it's asserted in the book that
America's first constitution was actually based on masonic principles,
as adapted from the flavour of freemasonary prevalent at the time, and that
those principles are still visible in it's current form.

Just something I found interesting.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------ Dave Parry  ICL, Bracknell, Berks, UK | "Send more paramedics.."--
------ email = dvp@oasis.icl.co.uk           | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ment@cs.swarthmore.edu (Andrew Ment)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:00:41 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

jlloyd@cc.uow.edu.au (Jonathan Lloyd) writes:

>cls@trsvax.tandy.com writes:





>I spent a few days in Manhattan in June. In the space of 3 days I 
>saw 3 muggings (in daylight) and was awoken several times at night by the
>sound of gunshots in the street not far from my hotel. There is nowhere
>in the world where I have felt more insecure.

>I firmly believe that handguns should be totally banned other than for use
>by the police and government security forces. This would surely save a 
>lot of lives.

>********************************************************************
>** These views are my own and do not reflect upon the policy *******
>** or views of the University of Wollongong, only of a young *******
>** welshman in a land down under ---Cymru am Byth ******************
>********************************************************************
>Phone +61 42 213018     Fax +61 42 213112       Email J.Lloyd@uow.edu.au

Crime in New York is bad, but really it isn't as bad as most people paint it,
especially tourists who, reasonably, tend to feel more threatened then they
really are.

Yes, I agree that Manhattan is a scary place.  Although I have to say that 
I was born and have lived there for most of my life without hearing a gunshot, 
or getting mugged.
  
I'm not sure where your hotel was, but it would have to have been in a pretty
bad area if you experienced what you say.  If you were at the youth hostel at 
103rd, I must say I can understand how you might have been fearful, the area
does look a mess, but I've lived at 106th for most of the last 20 years
without incident.

I lived for a year in Scotland and I have to say that it really was remarkable
how safe I felt.  One of the most amusing things was that everyone in
Edinburgh was convinced that the meadows were a treacherous place after dark.
I think that it's people who come from extra safe places who get shocked by
New York.

Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jasstev@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (stevens jason)
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:27:25 GMT
Keywords: Scots, Cockney, Taggart, Eastenders

MDuPree@world.std.com (Micky DuPree) writes:

>I've lost the original article for this thread, but I wanted to ask for
>clarification.  Someone claimed that Scots could only be found on
>television in comedies.  I've seen some of the Scottish Television
>police drama "Taggart," which is set in Glasgow and concerns Glaswegian
>characters.  My question is for those people who are in the camp that
>says that Scots is a separate language from English: are the regular
>characters on "Taggart" speaking Scots or are they speaking English with
>a Scottish accent?
 The actors are all scottish and all good at their jobs. Mark mcManus is one
 of the best actors on tv. I think their would be afew complaints if the Scots
 couldnt protray themselves in a programme!

>As for Cockney only being used in comedies, I could have sworn I've
>heard it on a number of crime dramas, and while I've never seen the
>program, surely "Eastenders" features a lot of Cockney.  But correct me
>if I'm wrong.
 Hell, Esatenders is the eastend of London. it features Londoners,
 therefore it features the cockney 9to be technically correct, some are more
 than others, but lets not start this debate).

>-Micky (headed for the U.K. in 1993, and not enough time to f**king
>       pack)
 Where are you going?

>* TV: Blake's 7, Star Cops, Sandbaggers, Callan *
>* Music: Simple Minds and U2 *
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Dum dee dum (was Re: The Archers: a beginner's guide)
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:49:58 GMT
	<Bwu28G.32H@dcs.ed.ac.uk> <1992Nov6.090722.626@aber.ac.uk>
	<BxGBFz.15E@dcs.ed.ac.uk> <10989@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
	<BxLxIz.4x3@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <BxLxIz.4x3@dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

   However, Robin syas they have to keep things quiet, but why I don't know
   - I missed that bit. Caroline seems a bit worried about this.

Maybe Robin doesn't want Mrs. Antrobus to find out :-)
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Britain doesn't have a Constitution (Re: An astonishing Guy)
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:07:18 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX


John Livesey writes, in part,

>I think that in addition to Supreme Court rulings, we have
>seen cases of the Federal Government taking effective control
>through funding.

Absolutely. Federal funding and its henchmen, the power to tax, 
the power to borrow, and the power to control the currency, are 
probably more responsible for the imbalance of power than the 
Supreme Court.  The almighty U.S. Federal Reserve note rules.

Gerry 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: The amazing disappearing British Constitution
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:47:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.232222.4021@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes
>
>Stated in non-comp sci terms:
>
>A true constitution is first and foremost an idea.  The written document
>or documents that manifest it come secondarily.  As long as the idea lives
>in the minds of the nation, the constitution lives.  When the idea fades
>or becomes muddled (i.e. the thinking of the nation becomes muddled) the
>constitution becomes sick and dies.
>
>Nothing demonstrates this principle more effectively than the the continuing
>efficacy of the unwritten British Constitution, except for the continuing
>deterioration of the U.S. Constitution, despite its being a single document.
>More and more it becomes nothing but grist for endless nitpicking debate and
>an instrument to be abused by whoever can manipulate the debate to his own
>advantage in the wielding of power.
>
>Is the idea of the British Constitution suffering similarly?

No, it's suffering differently.  Because so little of our constitution
is formally stated anywhere, it has allowed the Government in recent
years to centralize power to an unprecedented degree.  The powers of
local authorities have been reduced further and further; appointed
bodies such as Health Authorities, which used to broadly reflect their
local communities, now almost exclusively reflect business interests
alone; alternative sources of opinion such as the churches, the
universities and (especially) the trade unions have been marginalized.
The Government hasn't broken any rules; it's just gone against
precedent.  For this very reason these changes are much harder to
pin down, and will be harder to reverse if a Government of a different
political persuasion takes power.

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Anglican vs C of E
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:03:09 GMT

In article <A.Grant.23.721334628@ucs.cam.ac.uk>, A.Grant@ucs.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
> There is a good
> argument for having _some_ religious representation in the government, and
> unless you pick the single blandest, most neutral and moderate group, where
> do you stop?  Earth Goddess worshippers?  David Icke?

Would you like to explain what that is, because I can't even think of a
feeble excuse, let alone a good argument.

Simon.

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Re: In your school?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:04:51 GMT

godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

>No flames, i agree with you - the problem in many Canadian schools is INDEED
>due to the ex-patriate Brits, and you're right that many of them (I can think
>of quite a few examples) went there because they couldn't get a univ job in
>the UK.  BUT the reason they were hired is that despite their low quality,
>they were still better than anything the Canadian system could produce from
>the home market.  So Canada stands twice condemned - it has to hire mediocre
>Brits and it does so because it can't produce anything less mediocre itself.

   Back in the sixties, Canadian universities were expanding at a rate
which precluded "hiring at home" due to the limited number of PhD programs
in the small number of established universities. At this time, many foreign
academics were hired, including Brits. Unfortunately, a few of those Brits
*still* think that the worst Brit grad is better than the best Canuck grad
for the simple reason that the Brit grad's great-grandfather used to play
cricket with their great-grandfather.

   Of course, we hired a few good Brits, too. Usually the ones that were
very intelligent, extremely capable, but couldn't get jobs in Britain
because their great-grandfathers rubbed shoulders with the dustman's great-
grandfather, and there was no way that the old boys wanted that sort of
person teaching at their universities.

  So Britain stands twice-condemned: once for keeping their low-quality
people because they had all the correct schools on their C.V., and once
for sending away all the bright ones because of their "lower-class"
background.

   Fortunately, we occassionally get to send one or two of the bad ones
back. Sorry to hear you'd left NRC, Laurence! ;-)


Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15828 soc.culture.celtic:7317
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:36:55 GMT
	<1992Nov12.092237.12369@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <23848.9211121140@thor.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <23848.9211121140@thor.cf.ac.uk> spxsjm@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr S J Morris 92) writes:

   In this longish discussion about "Scots is a separate language" vs.
   "Scots is not a separate language", I don't yet recall seeing an example
   of Scots which would let us come to some informed conclusion on the
   topic. Could somebody who speaks Scots please translate a bit of prose
   (this article, for example) into Scots, so we can see what it looks
   like. If it's incomprehensible to a non-Scots speaker, then Scots is a
   language - otherwise, it's not.

Hang on - there are plenty of languages which are mutually comprehensible to
a large degree, aren't there?  I don't speak them, but I've read that Danish,
Norwegian & Swedish are pretty close to one another, as are Russian,
Belorussian and Ukrainian, as are lots of the Caucasian languages.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: How to insult a Brit (yet again)
Date: 10 Nov 1992 02:44:52 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <1992Nov10.005810.26270@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com writes:
> In article <1dmp4sINNplh@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> >
> 
> My prediction has already come true: you are already hearing
> the term more often.  My post on the subject was not meant as
> a threat, by the way.  I have no interest in calling you or
> anyone else a "Brit".  My neighbor's name is Britt, and she's
> a nice person.
> 
> I meant that the more you complain about and are annoyed by something, 
> the likelier the annoyance to occur.  This is Miller's Law.  
> I named it myself.

I think that you and I are talking past one another.   This
thread started when someone asked when "You guys are going
to decide what to call yourselves."

Well, I object to "Brit" as a name to call myself.   Of the
things that *other* people have called me over the years, on
the other hand, "Brit" seems quite mild.

jon.
From: stuart@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Dog in House of Parliament
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:25:10 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk wrote:
: In article <1992Nov6.102130.2990@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
: >The motion asked for support of the Maastricht treaty. 

: What's wrong is that by the time the bill came to the vote, it was less a
: vote on Maastricht and more a vote of confidence in the Major government. We
: came within three votes of a getting a general election. Thanks Paddy. (cue
: cries of "But it'a a matter of principle", at which point I refer you to
: last night's Spitting Image)

The vote that night was on Maastricht - not on confidence in the
government. Therefore MPs (and parties) should have voted for what they
said at the last election, when all three main parties were in favour of
the treaty. The Democrats voted in line with their previously stated
position, and principles are important, even in politics!

The Labour party wanted to get a confidence vote in the back door since 
they knew they would never win a real motion and so never tabled one. They
have thus left themselves open to claims of being anti-european (*) since
they voted against Maastricht.

(*) Whether true or not, this is what Tories will claim in debates etc.

In summary: If Labour had wanted a confidence motion then they should have
tabled one, otherwise they should have voted on the issue and not what
they would have liked the issue to be.

Stuart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:      | And the balance will shift, between the weak and the strong.
stuart@minster.| Once they would beg, and they would plead but now they demand
     york.ac.uk|	-- "Like Flames", Berlin
From: matt@castle.ed.ac.uk (M P Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Private Uni's
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:36:42 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Err excuse me but bollox...

In article <1992Nov6.103222.3273@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>illuminating. Many of the misconceptions about English
>universities arise because people tend to think in terms of
>Oxford and Cambridge. In fact these two are not very typical of
>the rest, they have a lot of peculiarities due to being the
>only ones founded centuries ago.
>
Oxford and Cambridge are NOT the *only* ones founded centuries ago.

Durham, Bath, Bristol to name but 3 English ones. As for other British
then how about St Andrews, Glasgow and Edinburgh?

Beware of sweeping statements please readers and writers.

		Matt
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: How to insult a Brit (reprise)
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:58:29 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

It seems to me that when someone says "I'm a Merkun" they are really
using the adjectival form, "I'm American", which would be  equivalent
to "I'm British".  The noun begins with a vowel, and therefore requires
the artical "an".  So to use the noun you would say, "I'm an American,
or "I'm an Amerkun" or I'm 'namerk'n", which is equivalent to "I'm
a Briton".

Gerry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: In your school?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:36:00 GMT

In article <dhalliwe.721084546@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halli writes...
>livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> 
> 
>>In article <dhalliwe.721004691@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA writes:
>>> 
>>>   [discussion of brits in Canadian universities omitted - DH]
> 
>>It's a pity that Mr Godfrey's posting is evoking some responses
>>almost as over-generalised.   I suspect this is what he wanted.
> 
>   Yes. That is why my first post on the subject stated that my sweeping
>generalization deserved the same treatment as Laurence's sweeping
>generalization.
> 
>   I definitely do not think that Laurence Godfrey's attitudes and
>opinions (or capabilities, I presume) are representative of the british
>in general. Our department here has several brits that like it here (and
>are liked). We also just hired another one away from Cambridge, who will
>be a definite plus.
> 
> 
>Dave Halliwell
>Department of Geography
>University of Alberta
>Edmonton, Alberta


Well he's obviously not a definite plus right now, or he wouldn't be leaving
a prestigious place like cambridge (I assume you mean the university) for
a god-forsaken dump in the frozen wilderness of Alberta, now would he?
I mean, Dave, lets face it Alberta is not exactly a centre of academic
excellence, now is it?

Laurence
From: leighann@rocky.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Sado-Methodists
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:40:41 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc., Emeryville, CA

In article <NIKOLAY.92Nov7174809@scws7.harvard.edu>, nikolay@scws7.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) writes:
|> E. P. Thompson cites, in _The Making of the English 
|> Working Class_, some fine specimens of early Methodist
|> hymnody. I hope their graphic vividness will please
|> the readers of this learned newsgroup.
|> 
	[many delightful grim examples deleted]

Hey!  You forgot my favorite:

	By the light of burning martyrs,
	   Jesus' bleeding feet I track...

Isn't religion wonderful...

	- Leigh Ann

----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey   
leighann@sybase.com           {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann
"They're mine!  All mine!  And what's mine is mine!" - Daffy Duck