Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:17:54 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Comments on Gutenberg Newsletter

6 Messages, 148 Lines
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From:     "Mel L. Barclay" <USERGC0G@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:  Gutenberg Newsletter, Pt. 2 of 2

Please keep doing what you're doing.  Access to literature for everyone
may finally be possible.  I have amazed my students by pulling up
historic documents in the oddest places.
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From: David Clunie <dclunie@itd.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Gutenberg Newsletter, Pt. 2 of 2

Are the works you have already entered available on CDROM yet ? I
am setting up a public access unix system with a CD multichanger
and would like to make your work available here in Australia.

If not yet on CDROM are you interested in the prospect ?

David Clunie (dclunie@itd.adelaide.edu.au)
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From:         Ernest Perez <EPEREZ@UTDALLAS>
Subject:      EMAIL COPYRIGHT

Michael Hart...hart@uiucvmd.bitnet writes....
>    THIS MESSAGE IS A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION, INTENDED ONLY TO BE
>    READ BY THE PEOPLE TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED.  RECIPIENTS OF
>    THIS MESSAGE MAY NOT COPY, CHANGE OR DISTRIBUTE IT IN WHOLE
>    OR IN PART WITHOUT MICHAEL HART'S WRITTEN PERMISSION.
>    Copyright [1992] Michael Hart

Tom Vogl...vogl@helix.nih.gov comments...
>However, I found his copyright notice, and unintelligible explanation of
>the need therefore totally inappropriate in its tone. The broad
>restriction, indeed prohibition of showing his message to anyone else is
>contrary to the ethical spirit of the net.
>But as written, the prohibition
>prevents me from showing this note to my colleage who happens not to be a
>PACS-L subscriber. Is this reasonable, ethical, or legal? I think not.
>Should I show it to my colleague anyhow? Any comments or guidance will be
>appreciated.

I quite agree with Vogl's reaction about the inappropriateness of the tone
of the prohibitions. They do appear to be contrary to the networking/
sharing spirit, and in fact, a trifle ridiculous, given the circumstances
of distribution.

The classification as "...A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION..." is patently false.
These messages go out, unsolicited, to *thousands* of network users, on
numerous lists.  This is electronic junk mail.

***> Question to copyright gurus: Does such prohibition have any validity
in the first place?

I have been under the impression that most such publisher's restrictions on
distribution and reuse are in the nature of a contractual relationship,
from voluntarily purchasing or accepting the published material. A
copyright notice carries no restrictive meaning outside of the statutory
definitions. If I get these messages, neither having asked for them, nor
having entered into any payment or subscription agreement, then it seems to
me that I am not bound by any supposed contractual notice of limitations.
That's like saying I can be prohibited from showing anybody the Domino's
Pizza advertisement that gets stuck in my door!

...Hmmm, if my "accepting delivery" of the email in question does put me in
the position of agreeing to the restrictions, can I be released from them
by simply forwarding the message back to the sender?

-ernest perez
eperez@utdallas.edu
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From:         HAL HALL <E825HH@TAMVM1>
Subject:      Re: Gutenberg Newsletter, Pt 1 of 2
Re: Michael Hart and his "Copyright Notice"

   The Gutenberg Newsletter is interesting; too bad!  I vet the PACS-L mail
and forward selected material to others in my library (and, occasionaly,
elsewhere); Hart's notice effectively prevents that sharing of information.
I would encourage net users to NOT follow this pattern, and I encourage Mr.
Hart to reconsider his intent and his message.

-- Hal Hall
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From: jahb@Lehigh.EDU (JENNIFER A. HEISE)
Subject: Re: Gutenberg Newsletter, Pt 1 of 2

I'm not good at checking copyrights, but I'm a pretty good proofreader.
Do you need volunteer proofreaders?

Jennifer Heise                           Net: jahb@lehigh.edu
Reference Dept.,                         Phone: (215) 758-3072
Fairchild-Martindale Libraries #8A,  Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015
My opinions are my own. No one else would HAVE them anyway.

"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group." -- Ford Prefect
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From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject:      Re: Internet Training

On Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:55:54 CDT Thomas P. Vogl said:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I found Michael Hart's message on the different perceptions of the new group of
>internet users and the analogy with learning to drive a car most interesting
>and
>very appropos.  I agree with him on most points that he makes.
>
>However, I found his copyright notice, and unintelligible explanation of the
>need therefore totally inappropriate in its tone.  The broad restriction,
>indeed

I am working on something better and more intelligible (not that legal notes
have ever been meant to be intelligible.

>prohibition of showing his message to anyone else is contrary to the ethical
>spirit of the net.  Even worse, it is clear that the point of the prohibition
>is
>to allow a private publisher financial gain, and it is equally clear, that "for
No. . ."the point of prohibition is" NOT "to allow a private publisher
financial gain". . .the point is precisely to keep this from happening.

>profit" use of the net is illegal. It is one thing to ask the readers not to
>republish his words without attribution.  It is equally appropriate to ask
>readers not to include his work in theirs even with attribution.  But as
>written, the prohibition prevents me from showing this note to my colleage who
>happens not to be a PACS-L subscriber.  Is this reasonable, ethical, or legal?
>I think not.  Should I show it to my colleague anyhow?  Any comments or
>guidance
>will be appreciated.
>Tom Vogl
>vogl@helix.nih.gov

So far I am in the process of granting permission to all who have asked.

However, it IS nice to know where your words are appearing.  You might be
surprised at the (sometimes inappropriate) places I have seen them appear.

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu