HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: the question is the answer ?!
Date: 11 Nov 92 23:21:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov10.154338.8379@nntp.nta.no>, stein@hal.nta.no (Stein
Kulseth FBA) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Nov10.144701.390@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, wilson@rhombus.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson) writes:
> |> In article <1992Nov5.213159.10826@sbcs.sunysb.edu> kthiruma@engws3.ic.sunysb.edu () writes:
> |> >
> |> >a question when repeated becomes its own answer.
> |> >
> |> 
> |> This reminds me of a (probably apocryphal) story I read somewhere
> |> long ago.  It seems a professor gave a final exam consisting of
> |> a single question.
> |> 
> |> "Write a question that you feel would be suitable for a 
> |> final exam and answer it."
> |> 
> |> One student thought for a few moments, then wrote the above
> |> sentence twice.
> |> 
> |> -Dwight
> 
> Well, I hope he flunked, for he obviously did not answer the question.

Actually, there weren't any questions to answer. There was a directive to
follow, though.  He didn't follow the directive because he didn't ask a
question.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Astrology: Scientific Research
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:49:36 GMT

In article 960@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu, banghartr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Rick Banghart, IPTV) writes:
>In article <zlsiida.353@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes...
>>In article <1992Oct31.195121.27772@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> banghartr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Rick Banghart, IPTV) writes:
>> 
>>>Why is a statistical correlation weaker evidence?
>>>It seems to me that a strong statistical correlation between
>>>planet positions and human behavior, found by independent
>>>researchers, and mutually confirming, would be very strong
>>>evidence.
>> 
>>there is an incredibly strong negative correlation between the soccer 
>>matches I predict as score draws and the ones that actually do turn out to 
>>be.  but there is no causal link.
>>correlations may indicate areas worth investigating, but have little 
>>intrinsic meaning.
>
>Pardon me as a speak from the dangerous place of "a little knowlege."
>When I spoke of "strong statistical correlation" I assumed that this
>was a correlation greater than that produced by chance.  My hunch
>is that your negative correlation between predicted match outcomes
>and actual outcomes would not exceed that produced by chance.
>If the negative correlation does exceed the chance level, then I
>would begin to look for a reason.  Again, I am not attributing 
>_meaning_, I am just concerned that we pay attention to the
>facts, no matter how they may contradict our previously held ideas.


Strong statistical correlation implies greater than that produced by 
chance.  The lowest correlation is 0, which is exactly that produced 
by two unrelated chance occurances.

When two events are correlated to a high degree, the general assumption
is that there is some relationship.  But correlation does not tell you 
what the relationship is.  One may cause the other, or they may both
be caused by come third, independent, event.  Or both may be related
through some long sequence of rather independent events.

The one that I like is that there is an almost 100% correlation between
being an alchoholic and drinking milk as a child.  I wouldn't hazard 
a claim that they were causally.

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto)
Subject: Analogy tests ( GRE general )
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:20:00 GMT

Hello all

I wander if anyone has any meunomics or
clues (hints) 
as to how to go through an analogy test?

Thanks
Frank Pinto
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RESULTS FOR TAI STANDARD INTELLIGENCE TEST
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:42:52 GMT
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

> The Tai Standard Test of Intelligence
> -------------------------------------
[vast number of lines omitted]

Tai entity, what sort of "productive" stuff is it that you do,
that gives you the free time for this kind of playing?
I might want to look into changing my line of endeavor.

From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Xerox of GMAT score OK for admission?
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 12:58:30 -0500

Ken Gacioch writes:

 KG> "Xerox" is not a verb, [...]
 KG> Xerox is based here in
 KG> Rochester, NY, and spends multi dineri to try to keep from losing
 KG> its rights to its trademark.

matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford) replies:

 MC> Ah, but that's *their* worry, and not mine.

...until they sue you!

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Subject: Re: Marylin Vos Savant.  Personal info request <=****
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:55:10 GMT

In article <R1PVTB4w165w@iowegia.uucp>, quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J.
Quest) writes:

>My first reaction to the name is "what a lucky person to have a 
>last name of Savant".

It might not be luck; a family might have been named for their
characteristics.  I've been told "Postpischil" is Czechoslovakian for
"quick witted".


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RESULTS FOR TAI STANDARD INTELLIGENCE TEST
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:36:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <JT.92Nov12223247@fizyk1.fuw.edu.pl> jt@fuw.edu.pl (Jerzy Tarasiuk) writes:
>
>I suppose someone more intelligent can express same information in
>shorter sentence. Or in a way easier to understand by someone less

Yup.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Marylin Vos Savant.  Personal info request <=****
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:06:02 GMT

In article <R1PVTB4w165w@iowegia.uucp> quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) writes:

}... He was laughing
}at the name Duberstein ...
}... He very well may have been the best man for the job-
}but his _name_ prevented him from even getting a chance.

Were I Mr. Duberstein, or in his position, I would consider this a Good
Thing and my name a useful filter.  I wouldn't want to work for someone
that stupid or a company that would make him a supervisor.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:38:37 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov11.134919.3407@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, edp@math.zk3.dec.com
(Eric Postpischil) wrote:
> 
> In article <mike_steiner-101192123813@192.35.50.131>,
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> >The fact remains that if a statistically significant number of people do
> >not vote, the only thing that can be determined from this fact alone is
> >that x% of the people (or stated number of people) did not vote.
> 
> How can you state that is a fact when I have given a counterexample that
> disproves it?  You have not addressed the counterexample at all.

I don't save any of these messages, so I have to go by memory alone.  If I
recall your counter-example, it relied upon other methods of communication
to explain the reason for not voting.  I acknowledged that situation in my
first message on this topic--before you ever brought it up.

> >This reason is so prevelant that it drowns
> >out any other "message" any individual might want to send by not voting,
> 
> Ah, yes, the "drowns out" principle of information theory.  I'm sure
> that was an epiphany of scientific insight, but I seemed to have missed
> the announcement.  Would you be so kind as to give me a reference to
> some published work on "drowning out" messages so that I can study it?

It is empirical.  Gather together  20,000 to 70,000 people who are all
talking simulateously (a baseball game might be a good source for this),
and then say "Fire" in a normal speaking voice, directed at no one in
particular, and without first trying to attract anyone's attention.  See
how many people get your message.

> >and is the only one considered by politicians and the press.
> 
> The politicians and the press are not the only people who participate in
> and affect government and society.

True; however, if there is any message to be delivered by a vote or
non-vote, they would be the parties who receive the message.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: t: Post for Week of Nov  9
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:54:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.230351.16911@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:
>In article 22825@ncsu.edu, scott@bogus.network.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>
>I love the address.  No more deception, just be blunt.  
>
>And I really love the routing:
>>  Path: 
>> eagercon!ditka!daver!UB.com!pacbell.com!decwrl!concert!rock!taco!burrito!nacho!
>> tostada!crispa!fajita!bogus.network.address!scott
>
>Make a run for the border!!!
>
>But there are still hint, Scott:
>> Message-ID: <1992Nov9.173959.22825@ncsu.edu>
>> Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
>

Hey, that made me hungry.  I think Laura and I will run down to
Taco Smell, since the pancakes I tried to make went a bit
shreddy.  MMMMM, and so inexpensive too.

Did you know that there are approximately 450 McDonalds restaurants
in the United Kingdom, but only 1 Taco Bell?  It's in London on
Earl's Court Rd.  

I thought Scott would be especially interested in that fact.

sue

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: 10 Mensans in a Room with 27 Opinions
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:53:26 GMT

James Thompson:
>>The third umpire, older and wiser than the other two, said
>>"Boys, until I calls them, they ain't".
>
>Was the third umpire's name Schrodinger, by any chance?
>Quantum sports.  What will they think of next?

Oh, great!  If the ball gets past the infielders, it undergoes
five-slit interference.  By the time an outfielder can collapse its
wave function, the batter will be delocalized over all the bases and
be called safe at home with amplitude (1+2i)/sqrt(40).

It's not over until the fat lady opens the newspaper and reads the score.
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa - FAQ: Do I qualify for Mensa? How do I Join? [Monthly]
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:29:39 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill) writes:

>Japan (P), Editor & National Office:  Mr. Masanobu Sato, 2-8-19-
>19-101, Takamatsu, Toshima-ku, 171 Tokyo, Japan. ((81))(03) 3554
>4577

Yo, Phil!

Get with the program!  Japan Mensa's been dusted!

(Don't you read the very newsgroup you're posting the FAQ
 file for ???)

                                  Your Troublesome Friend,

                                         - John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: RESULTS FOR TAI STANDARD INTELLIGENCE TEST
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:09:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.031100.27122@ncsu.edu> scott@bogus.network.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>All FAQ posts were excluded, and Tai posts were excluded
>to avoid test bias.

Why?  Not necessary if the algorithms used are consistent -- statistical
and common analysis packages.

>The correlation between higher scores and higher
>intelligence is likely to be quite high.

If this is meant to be an example of falacious extrapolation,
good.  Otherwise, shame on you for tainting an otherwise good post.

>radams appears to be the most intelligent poster to
>rec.org.mensa, followed by ehp and eager.

That may nevertheless be true.  I propose a demorcatic vote.

>The posts are the only tangible information one has
>about rec.org.mensa posters, and these conclusions 
>are based solely on this information.  Cases like
>this are when standardized tests are useful...

But, like many tests, they do not measure how full of love each
of us is, nor how well we ski.

GMS
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: MENSA CANADA & the state of newsgroup
Date: 4 Nov 92 21:59:03 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <31OCT92.16693114.0064@VM1.MCGILL.CA> BFFN@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (BFFN) writes:

}As a recently arrived reader of this newsgroup, I have tried to keep
}up with what has been going on re: Steiner, Tai, Franklin et al.  I
}feel that I have been completely overwhelmed by the sheer volume of
}this trash.  I will not assess blame to any one party.  I just find
}it tedious that this newsgroup based on an organization whose goal
}is to foster discussion across a table (Latin: Mensa) has been
}reduced to such banalities.

Perhaps I should start posting the flame retardant (i.e.:  KILL file
entry) of the week again.  I'd thought everyone had pretty much figured it
out for themselves by now, but there are always new arrivals ...

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: dobbs@ast.saic.com (Lynn Dobbs)
Subject: Re: Why manhole covers are round
Organization: SAIC
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:46:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.152124.16628@newstand.syr.edu> pbwhite@rodan.acs.syr.edu (White) writes:
>
>Manhole covers are round because:
>
>1)  They are extremely heavy, and they are wheel shaped, making them easy
>	to roll
>2)  A circle is the only shape which will not fall into the hole when
>	rotated.
>3)  A cover which is round does not have to be oriented a special way to
>	fit over the hole

The problem with answer three is that the highway/street departments always
manage to paint a stripe on them. Actually, that isn't a problem with
answer three. The stripes always seem to be misaligned by 30 to 120 degress.
--Lynn

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Weighted Suffrage, Suffrin'Cats.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:35:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.110119.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:
>This weighted suffrage thread is getting tedious:

This much I agree with.  But this is only my opinion, and not intended to
be a guideline for anyone's behavior.

>Just try to argue that suffrage should be weighted on whether or not the test
>for voting rights should be based on the presence (or absence) of a penis and
>see what flames you get.

The amount of flames you get is not necessarily an indicator of whether
or not you are right on any given topic.

>	Surely the principle of universal suffrage and one vote-per-person is
>that we all have a common and equal stake in the running of the country, and,

I understand the "common" part, but the rest appears to be quite a
generalization regarding a priniple that has been adopted for its
practicality, not its necessary correctness.  Perhaps you could make
a stab at proving this contention, or possibly provide some reasons
why you think it is necessarily true.

>at least in theory a common interest in the well being of the nation.
>	I believe in "Brave New World" Huxley mentioned in passing an island
>where the inhabitants were all alphas. He dismissed the experiment as coming to
>a violent end (no flames on this please, I was twelve when I last read BNW.

I don't understand this.  Maybe I've forgotten too much about BNW, too.
Maybe you could clarify?

>David N. Chorley (barbarian-at-large)

GMS
From: dave@school.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: New Insight on Headaches
Date: 2 Nov 92 21:04:35 GMT
Organization: Hardly

AP 11/05 20:51 EST V0386
Copyright 1992. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
   LONDON (AP) -- "Not tonight honey, I'll get a headache" is more than an
excuse for people who truly suffer from sex-induced headaches, doctors say.

   A new Danish study reassures those who get headaches only after orgasms that
they may have a temporary problem. 
   The syndrome, known as benign coital headache, or orgasmic cephalgia, has
been well-known among headache specialists for years. Little is known, however,
about why orgasms trigger headaches or the likelihood of recurrences. 
   The Danish researchers' study of 26 people who suffered sex-related headaches
suggests the pain eventually will stop recurring, as long as a person also does
not suffer tension headaches or migraines. 
   The study is published in the Nov. 6 issue of the British Medical Journal.

   "If a patient with migraine or tension headache once has an episode of benign
coital headache, he or she is at great risk of having recurrent attacks," said
Dr. John Ostergaard, an investigator at the University Hospital of Aarhus.

   "Other patients, not ordinarily suffering from headache, can be reassured
about the favorable prognosis of this disorder," he said. 
   Dr. Seymour Diamond, a headache specialist and director of the Diamond
Headache Clinic in Chicago, said, "I agree with the authors that in most
instances it is a benign condition. But the possibility of finding some physical
change causing the headache, such as stroke, warrants careful exploration by a
physician." 
   Ostergaard and his team interviewed 19 men and seven women who had sought
medical help between 1978 to 1991 for headaches caused by orgasms. 
   Fourteen patients had experienced multiple sex-induced headaches over three
weeks to six months, but did not suffer from other kinds of headaches.
Ostergaard found that over the following one to 10 years, only two of these
patients had additional sex-induced headaches, showing that for most sufferers
the problem was temporary. 
   The other 12 people in the study also suffered from migraines or tension
headaches, and 11 of them suffered recurrences of sex-induced headaches after
the first attacks. 
   Diamond, author of "Sexual Aspects of Headache," said no one knows why
orgasms can provoke headaches for some people or the prevalence of this
condition. He said he treats about 100 sex headache sufferers a year in his
clinic. 
   "Taking aspirin prior to sex may help prevent them," said Diamond. "I do
emphasize that sufferers should seek help." 

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:54:25 GMT

In article 4125@bcstec.ca.boeing.com, stein@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Halden Stein) writes:
>I understand how someone with an IQ greater than mine can develop
>test items to judge my abilities. Who creates the test for someone
>such as Marylin Vos Savant (highest IQ at the moment)? It seems that
>the test creators would need to have higher IQs than the test takers.


You do not need superior intelligence to create questions.  IQ tests are a range
of questions which are given within a specified time limit under very specific
circumstances.  

Anybody can create hard questions if they have ample time to research and consider
the question.  I know; I just gave a class a mid-term.  I may or may not be more
intelligent than the students, but I have a distinct advantage -- I'm asking the
questions and have rather large amount of time to determine the correct answer.

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:17:37 GMT

In article 1C4@world.std.com, rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:
>>First, it the only wordplay going on is the stuff you are using about
>>reliable vs. unreliable messages.  Only my misunderstanding and misrepresenting
>>the little bit of knowledge you have in information theory can you come
>>up with a conclusion that a non-action conveys any kind of message.
>
>Well, in the formal definitions of information theory, maybe you
>are right.  I haven't studied the field.  But in real life, it is
>plain as day that non-action may convey very strong messages at 
>times.  Now, if I remember my history...:
>
>Cuban Missile Crisis.  Critical juncture.  Kennedy receives a message from 
>Khruschev.  While pondering a response, he receives another message from
>Khruschev, contradicting points in the first message, and definitely taking
>a harder line.  Kennedy choses to ignore message number two. He answers
>only message number 1.  He takes no action at all on message number 2.
>
>The world didn't end.  Khruschev got the message loud and clear: "Kennedy
>knows that there are conflicting viewpoints on this matter in the Kremlin;
>Kennedy is staking everything on the abilibty of the more moderate faction
>to prevail; Kennedy will not deal at all with the hard-liners."

Well, more recent revelations have sort of put this story to rest.  There was
a significant amount of correspondence between K & K.  The deal that was cut
was that Khruschev would remove the missles from Cuba and that Kennedy would
remove the Jupiter (nuclear warhead) missles from Turkey the following year.

All of the "hang tough" retoric was only noise.  Kennedy got to look like 
he stood up to Khruschev's threat, Khruschev got a major concession.

I haven't heard whether there really were two discordant messages.  But 
recent documents reveal that no body thought that missles in Cuba were a 
real threat to the US.

>Non-action on something that someone else *knows* you are able to take 
>action on definitely can convey a message.  It can never be a perfectly
>clear message, but if there is a history of actions and non-actions 
>between the parties, it can be clear enough.
>
>Not-voting, by itself, does not convey a clear message.  If Eric is saying
>that one *can* establish a history of actions and non-actions that bring
>out the message, I have to agree in principle.  I think, however, that 
>such a history would have to be very explicit in this case (like maybe
>a full page ad in the New York Times that says "we the undersigned aren't
>going to vote because...").

Eric has postulated and "proved" his case under very narrow and specific
circumstances, none of which I believe exist.  He's shown that people can
and do take political action which is independent of voting.  He hasn't 
shown anything more.

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141