From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Bass Ackwards GURPS Attribute Modifier Method
Keywords: GURPS Attribute SPRUG
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:16:39 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle



>> My point is that a character IS an embodiment of it's race. ST 18 may be of
>> more utility to a Dwarf than a Human for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the
>> race needs greater ST because they are underground dwellers and spend a lot
>> of time digging, or metalsmithing.

> ST 18 is of equal utility to a Dwarf and a Human. They will do the
> same damage with weapons, they will be able to wield the same weapons,
> and they will do equally well in contests of ST.  They Dwarf will be
> able to carry more, but pays a separate advantage for that. Equal
> utility should lead to equal points cost. That's the name of the game
> in a self-proclaimed points balanced system.

*SIGH* Back to basic physics. A Human is close to twice the height of a
Dwarf. Given the same ST score, the Human will have much more leverage than
a Dwarf. He can use his height to advantage during combat with greater
leverage and reach. These factors are not included in the rules, but they
should be. The same ST score is more useful to a Human than a Dwarf. There-
fore a human should pay more for the same ST total. Perhaps the various
rules should be modified to include factors such as leverage. If you treat
all the races the same when it comes to points, then they just become humans
with weird names.

>> Carrying the reasoning to an extreme, you are saying that ST is equally useful
>> to a Giant, a Human, and a Halfling. Given the same ST score, the Giant would
>> be immobilized, the human normal, and the Halfling completely muscle bound.
>> I don't think the flaw is in the modifiers. The flaw is in how the attributes
>> effect the different biological forms.

> Given the same ST score, the Giant, Human, and Halfling would all have
> the same benefits conferred by that ST score.  The rules have no
> provisions for immobilizing Giants with ST 10, and the ST 10 Human and
> ST 10 Halfling would have the same abilities.  It doesn't matter if
> the character is particularly feeble or strong compared to the rest of
> its race; what matters is how the characters stack up relative to each
> other, and if the results are balanced.

> Points:  balance the strengths and weaknesses of the characters in the
> game.

> Races:  campaign world background information.

> I think it's possible to have interesting racial backgrounds and
> characters without jeopardizing the stated purpose of points.

  Your grasp of the obvious is noted. However, I disagree with your state-
ment that it does not matter how the character compares to the rest of the
race. A very weak Giant IS at a disadvantage when dealing with members of
his or her own race, and may be at a disadvantage when dealing with the
other races as well. This pathetically puny Giant is probably a social
outcast, and the other races will enjoy beating the bejeavers out of it
just for the joy of finally being able to thrash a Giant.

  Likewise, an 18 ST halfling will have an additional benefit in melee
combat because the opponents will tend to underestimate it. Why defend
yourself against a 'puny' Halfling when there is a more dangerous Human
opponent to face. WHAM! That Halfling proceeds to cleave you in half with
a butter knife...

  Also, just because the rules do not cover some particular aspect, is no
reason to assume there is no problem here. It is not an adequate defense
to just state that the rules do not cover something. The rules do not cover
what size a character needs to be in order to use a weapon one-handed or
two-handed. Just because the rule doesn't exist doesn't mean it is not
needed, or that all is well.
-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx