HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov
Subject: Re: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
Followup-To: talk.politics.space
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:20:00 GMT

In article <81005@ut-emx.uucp>, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes...
>In article <28SEP199219445933@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>>Therefore demand would 
>>increase greatly, while lowering the cost of our overall industrial process.
>>If this were an American enterprise, this could put our basic industries
>>that rely on platinum based catalytic processes to become more cost 
>>competitive on a world basis, which would help ease our balance of payments
>>burden and begin to bring terrestrial wealth back into this nation.
> 
>How?  If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you
>benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc."
>After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the
>spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc.
> 

You have exactly the right point. It would be "our" platinum that they would
be buying. Since our prices would be an order of magnitude cheaper than
the competition, then we would get most of the worlds business.  This 
translates to a net wealth flowing into the US instead of out as is the
current case.  Also uncle sugar would get his share as taxes on US corporations
and on US workers. Extrapolate this to the other resources and you begin
to get the picture.  Platinum production is only one resource that could
be handled in this way. The gold and finished iron/steel are a by product
of the first process. And yes paul you could vaporize the iron by the same
method that is used to heat iron in most foundries today, which is electricity
A couple of hundred kilowatts from a SP100 or Topaz like system would do
nicely. Use a laser to cut the pieces in small managable chunks, vaporize,
separate, and then condense the constitutents into whatever form you wish.
Remember that this asteriod is a solid piece of nickel iron, this ain't 
iron ore. Go to the Griffith Park observatory in LA and look at the one
that is on display there. It is beautiful and SOLID nickel iron with a 
really huge crystalline structure.

Ideas ideas ideas. 

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville


Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space
From: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: Space and Presidential Politics
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:18:22 GMT
Organization: The Software Distillery
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

I'm somewhat confused, first he says:

In article <1469100016@igc.apc.org> mwgoodman@igc.apc.org (Mark Goodman) writes:
>
>I can only conclude that if you care about space so much that you
>would base your vote on the issue you have 1) little to go on and
>2) loose marbles.  Get real!  Space is not and should not be a big
>issue in this Presidential election. 

Then he says:
 
>                                     The issues are how to
>strengthen the economy and give people real opportunities to
>improve their lot while reducing the deficit and the burden of the
>national debt and healing the divisions in our society.  Without
>that, NASA is going nowhere.  Only a prosperous and united society
>will support space exploration.

Isn't the second what space promises, at least the potential for?

--

 |_o_o|\\
 |. o.| || The           Jay Denebeim
 | .  | ||  Software
 | o  | ||   Distillery
 |    |//        Address: UUCP:     duke!wolves!deepthot!jay
 ======                   Internet: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us
                 BBS:(919)-460-7430      VOICE:(919)-460-6934
From: ralph.buttigieg@f635.n713.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Ralph Buttigieg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: lower launch costs
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:31:00 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

There has been lots of talk on how to lower launch cost. Yet one quick and
effective way to do so is usually ignored. Open the launcher market to
international competion.

Last Friday Optus launched its comsat on the Chinese Long March. Using cheap
labour, the Chinese can offer rates at least 1/3 the price of Western
rockets. There is little doubt that the Russians could at least match them.

Yet the US government forced the Chinese to limit their commercial launches
and forced them to charge higher rates. It still uses cold war legislation
to prevent US satellites being launched on Russian rockets.

Recently it tried to stop Russian technology being used by India.

The irony of all this is that US Space industry would be the prime
beneficiary of an  international market. Their satellites are still world
class, combined with cheap rockets they would be competitive for many years
yet.

ta
Ralph Buttigieg

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Vulcan's World-Sydney Australia 02 635-1204 (3:713/635)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: walsh@spider.wri.com (Jerry Walsh)
Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:38:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.131331.8398@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:

>Nonsense. If you import military tech and don't need the weapons, 
>then you've poured your nation's money down the sewer. But if you 
>manufacture domestically, as we do, then the money stays in the 
>domestic economy building a technical infrastructure and expertise, 
>and spurring growth in the civilian economy as the dollars go through 
>their multiplier. . . .

There is no free lunch.  If the government spends a lot of money
on domestic military technology, it is argued that the money is
not wasted because the workers take that money and spend it and
help the economy.  But in the process labor has been diverted
from civilian production.  That costs.

>. . . Government spending is
>valuable in areas where private investors fear to tread, but government
>debt can't continue to grow indefinitely. It too must be managed in a
>sound fiscal way so that future generations will have capital left on
>which to operate. Right now the Democrats are paying the interest on
>one credit card by charging it on another. That's the road to bankruptcy
>and ruin for individuals and nations. A rubber stamp in the White House
>can only make matters worse.

Is it the Democrats who are borrowing us into trouble?
Statistics for the last 20 years show that the federal budget deficit
as a percentage of gross domestic product has grown under
Reagan, Bush, and Ford, but declined under Carter.

> . . . Clinton would be a rubber stamp for the half
>baked plans of the Democrats in Congress. Bush has done a sorry
>job of saying *no*, but Clinton wouldn't even try.

What reason is there to think that Bill Clinton will be a
"rubber stamp"?  On the contrary, when the Democrats are unable
to blame the deficit on a Republican president, they will have
to be more responsible.  Clinton is more likely to get the
line-item veto out of Congress than Bush is.

-----
Jer.
walsh@wri.com

Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Subject: Env. Satellites Shutdown Dec. 1992
Keywords: satellites, environment, budget
Reply-To: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681  USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:57:58 GMT

  We at Langley Research Center received news on Thursday, October 2,
1992 that NASA intends to shutdown the following satellites in
December to save about $15M:

     NUMBUS-7

     ERBS

     NOAA-9

     NOAA-10

The following experiments will not be operational while
the satellites are shutdown:

     Stratospheric Aerosol Measurement II  (SAM II)

     Earth Radiation Budget Experiment (ERBS) (3)

     Stratospheric Aerosol and Gas Experiment II (SAGE II)

There were no plans stated to restart the satellites at a
later date.

Also UARS (Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite) may go after its
18 months are completed!

Mike Rowland

Mike Rowland, Aerosol Research Branch, MS 475
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: Explore->Colonies (Was: Clinton and Space Funding)
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:29:42 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep25.211355.20297@Princeton.EDU>  writes:
>
>After all, Columbus was Spanish, and so the first colonies were Spanish as  
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry, but that's wrong. Columbus was from Genoa in Italy.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent)
Subject: Re: DCX Funding (was: Re: Lunar landing in 2002)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:21:09 GMT

In article <BvDLJx.MHE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>
>Is there any possibility of McDonnell Douglass funding development if no one
>else takes over?  I'd heard this, but I get the impression that if it is the
>case, it's not something MD is eager to talk about.

Let me point out a few things:

1) There is ample precedence for this.

2) The initials DC were chosen for a reason  (remember the DC-3?)

3) McDonnell Douglas can't get enough money together to build the MD-12,
which ought to be a much less costly and less risky venture.

Mike

-- 
Michael Kent                                   kentm@rpi.edu
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!
From: jcg@teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:26:05 GMT
Reply-To: jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Organization: Teradata Corp., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Oct6.013913.18879@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
>In article <22554@venera.isi.edu>, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>|> In article <1992Oct5.154718.3438@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
>|> ...
>|> Now, Arabs are released en masse -- they are not even called up -- and
>|> are therefore refused benefits (except for those who actually serve, of
>|> ...
>...
>|> ..
>|> medical or other reasons.  For example, it is not unusual for the IDF to
>|> have an oversupply of female Jewish soldiers, in which case they will
>|> notify a substantial number of Jewish women that they are relieved from
>|> the need to join the IDF.  Such women are *not* denied the benefits
>|> associated with military service -- unlike Arabs.
>
>Of course, this is different. Those who are WILLING to serve do
>receive whatever privileges others would - if the fact that they are
>not required to serve is decided by the IDF (i.e. too many female
>soldiers).

Yes Harry, it is different.  Israel DOES NOT attempt to ascertain whether
(most) Israeli Gentiles are WILLING to serve.  This is one of Yigal's point.
>...

Jon.
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "SALEM" (Peace)!!! means "MURDER"!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:51:09 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <4263@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.165724.3417@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>>
>>In article (52134, talk.politics.mideast) Gideon Ehrlich writes:
>>
>>>But this is the main point , haled J Shammout many other Arabs in the
>>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>middle east and in other places do consider killing Jews as a good
>>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>action.
>> ^^^^^^
>>
>>     This is outrageous Gideon.  How dare you accuse me and other Arabs of
>>such a thing????   HOW DARE YOU!!!!!  Or is it that you can not find any valid
>>argument to use???
>>     Such accusations are arrogant, unproffessional, racist, and
>>anti-semetic.  I DEMAND AN IMMEDIATE APOLOGY over the same newsgroup/s
>>in which this accusation appeared.  And I mean immediate apology.
>>
>>____________________
>>Khaled Shammout
>
>Dear Khaled , if you dont like the face you see in the mirror don't
>blame the mirror.
>
>the fact is that neither  haled J Shammout nor any of the other Arabs
>on the net has say any word as to the attemot to murder Avraham Cohen
>the Arabian father and his 2 sons of Salem has done, He and his friend
>just tried mocking me for my English !
> During the gulf war ALL Arabs used to dance on top of their houses while
>Iraqies scads were on their way to Israel and there was a sirene
>warning about that. Their song was :
>  Sadam sadam        -    Sadam  Sadam
>          ya habib   -      Beloved
>  udrub udrub        -    hit  hiy
>          Tel Abib   -     Tel Aviv

	All Arabs? I find that really hard to believe.  There were
	Palestinians who did that, but I doubt that all of them
	did that either. 

>
>
>The slogan Arabs use to shout is :
>ITBACH EL YAHUD   - slaoughter  the Jews . ( a mild version of that
>is the slogan Juden Rause )
>Such slogan shouting and a similar songs are a common part of Arabian
>weddings at the Galilee and other places.
>Many Arabs were cought before and after attempt to murder Jews and
>they explain their deeds simply  " I came to kill Jews" they are
>enjoying a wide support from their society. It was checked and found
>that killing Jews is a high aspiration of most of the Arabs here, Even
>professor Samocha ( a Jew) an extremely leftist declared that Arabian
>willing to kill us can be expressed only when we are week , but if
>there will be a peace and we will be considered as strong then Arabs
>will not try killing Jews.

	Some of this sounds rather far-fetched, no?


> I do not want to say that Druz, Curds and other minorities do enjoy
>toleration among Arabs.
>
	You didn't.

	-Geoff
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ISRAEL DESTROYED IRAQ (Re: Anti-Arab racism on the net)
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:31:46 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <1992Sep30.183653.2505496@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:

[JLE] Simple, if your story is the true one (which I doubt very much), then
[JLE] why did the israeli's stop from advancing towards Damascus.  Nothing
[JLE] stopped them from advancing towards Beirut you know.

The Israelis were ready to continue on to Damascus and blow the city away
if necessary. It is the Soviets at the time who put a lot of pressure on
the Americans and told them that Israel should stop its advance or Israel
would have to bare the consequences with probably Soviet intervention. The
Arabs (as usual :-)) were on the verge of total collapse when the soviets
made their "request".

As for the advance of Beirut nobody really gave a damn because Israel
was doing what all the western countries wanted it to do and that is
get rid of international terrorism. With the PLO weakened, most European
terrorist organizations logistics were gone, not speaking of the number
of documents seized.

[JLE]  Ha Ha Ha Got you here.
Elghani, you are so happy with yourself that sometimes I wonder if you are
not a 5 year old sneaking in to your father's office and sending garbage
mail ...

-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not recieve this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 14:15:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.215117.13897@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:

>My understanding, in Syria they are citizens and have equal civil rights,
>except they are not allowed to serve in the army. They are even allowed to
>have the Sabath on Saturday.

Such enlightenment!  Sabbath on Saturday.  As opposed to what?
Sabbath on Friday??  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:39:13 GMT

In article <22554@venera.isi.edu>, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.154718.3438@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
|> > By the way, ultra Orthodox Jews also do not serve in the IDF. Does
|> > this mean that Israel discriminates against Jews as well? Or maybe it
|> > is merely a sign of Israel's understanding that certain people CAN NOT
|> > serve in the IDF - and Israel's refusal to force service upon these people.

|> Apparently, the benefits associated with military service are provided
|> to what the Israelis term "Yotzei Tzava", all those called up for
|> military service.  That does not mean anyone who *actually* *served*,
|> but anyone called for service, even if he/she was later released from
|> the duty to actually perform military service.
|> 
|> Now, Arabs are released en masse -- they are not even called up -- and
|> are therefore refused benefits (except for those who actually serve, of
|> course).  On the other hand, Ultra-Orthodox religious students are
|> released on a case-by-case basis.  They are called for an initial
|> interview, and after showing proof of their Yeshiva-student status are
|> released.  Therefore, they *are* eligible for the considerable benefits
|> associated with military service even though they do not end up serving.

Can you provide a source for this information? It seems to me
rather hard to believe that the Ultra-Orthodox receive any special
privileges only for being called for an initial interview.

I know of many Israeli who are a bit unhappy that the Ultra-Orthodox
do not have to serve. This leads me to believe that public sentiment
would not be all too well disposed to the UO receiving any sort of
special treatment for being given permission not to serve in the IDF.

|> The same holds for other Jews who are released from their duty for
|> medical or other reasons.  For example, it is not unusual for the IDF to
|> have an oversupply of female Jewish soldiers, in which case they will
|> notify a substantial number of Jewish women that they are relieved from
|> the need to join the IDF.  Such women are *not* denied the benefits
|> associated with military service -- unlike Arabs.

Of course, this is different. Those who are WILLING to serve do
receive whatever privileges others would - if the fact that they are
not required to serve is decided by the IDF (i.e. too many female
soldiers).

Note though, that such people are willing to serve and are then
excused from duty because the IDF thankfully does not need them.

Harry.

|> Yigal Arens
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Anisa
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:06:09 GMT
Organization: LC


		Bismallah Al Rahman Al Raheem

"Wa`eddo Lahom Ma Istata`tom Min Quwwatin Wa min Ribat Al Khail,
Torhiboona Bihi Adowwa Allah Wa A dowwakom".  SAA.

In article <1719@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> karr@ukc.ac.uk (K.A.R.Razzooqi) writes:
>
>  Lady anisa wrote:-
><Anwar, I don't need any courtesy from you - obviously you don't
><hold any regard for anyone unless they are from your country.
><Only *hypocrites* like your government, and its partner
><in crime, Saudi Arabia, are the one to advocate principals of
><self-preservation for its peoples while calling on the demise
><of other peoples who have the audacity to rebel against its
><corrupt and unequal rule.
>
>   You do not hold any regard for any one unless he follows your own
>   created views.And if someone presents his own views which does not 
>   support your own ,you lable him with very bad things and attack him
>   personaly.And all this goes to prove that you are a pathetic and hypocrite
>   figure (you and your supporters!!!!!??).

How nice of you to call a muslim lady like this.  May your Maseer be
Janannam Al Hamra Be-ithnihi ta`ala.

>   Deep rooted resentment(which you created by your selfs) does not execuse
>   the support of the KILLING and RAPE of innocent KUWAITI people.

You idiot Razzooqi, the innocent Kuwaitis that were killed and raped
are muslim and Anisa and I do very much care and condemen as
well wish Hell for those that executed those acts.

>   And you say "people finally had the opportunity to voice the injustices"
>   and I add " by supporting the thug saddam ,and the killing of the KUWAITIS"
>   That realy sounds good to you and your supporters,does it not??!!!!!

Neither Anisa, nor myself support the brutal Saddam FYI.  So keep your
accusations to yourself.


>   And as I said before PLEASE PLEASE do not involve ISLAM and MUSLIMS in our 
>   arguments because you do not represent Islam and Muslims(you are far far from   it ,thank GOD).
>   (I have this image of you judging from your previos letters and the LANGUAGE
>   that you use,which I do not think that it follows the Islamic Manners)

Who are you to call people KUFFAR, if you are a muslim and
defend manners (as you claim), you should know that you cannot 
point at someone you disagree with as Kafir just because you felt like that.
Apparently, Sister in Islam Anisa knows her islamic rules and boundaries
Alhamdulillah, and least she remembers Allah in her fight against
acquard  people, unlike you, you remember Kuwait, Emir, or Money
during your fight.  May Allah Al Hady be with Anisa and help her
in her dog fight. 

		Bismallah Al Rahman Al Raheem

"Wa`eddo Lahom Ma Istata`tom Min Quwwatin Wa min Ribat Al Khail,
Torhiboona Bihi Adowwa Allah Wa A dowwakom".  SAA.


>                          Kutaiba Razzooqi