From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:15:39 GMT

cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>
>>No, it was quite extensive.  13% on everything that was manufactured.
>>That's a fairly long list.  It's name was the Manufacturer's Tax ...
>>not too hard to parse the meaning there, I'd say.
>
>much easier, i'd say, than getting you to admit that replacing 
>a "manufacturer's" tax with a goods AND SERVICES tax and claiming 
>that one is equivalent to the other is an outright lie.

Hey, I didn't put that tax in! (-;  Those socialist Tories took out 
the Manufacturer's Tax, put in the GST ... there was a swap ... the
two taxes were tied together ... with a clumsy, overnight change.

>you also still have not told me how we can "write down the deficit"
>(fallacy alert) with the funds raised from the GST if the GST is 
>just a replacement for an existing tax.

According to the news reports, the GST money is sitting in one lump
in escrow at the moment.  Here's the funny part ... they don't know
how to pry it loose to put against the debt!!!  If you'd like me to
put in some time to think about how to loosen that dough and pay off
part of the deficit, you and any other USENET'ers are welcome to go
and write in my name in the next election ... once I figure out what
my exact legal residency is at the moment! (-; (-; (-;

>>instead of behind, leading to a more honest sticker price ...
>
>rationalization #423,123.  you're right. 
>the retailers were just ecstatic when the GST was introduced...

Get a basic book on business and look at the composition of retail
prices ... factor in differences from what the authors present in
their model to whatever area you're looking at (Ontario, Oregon, ...).

>you sound exactly like every politician i have ever heard in my life 
...
>umm, we can't cut them all at once.. gotta do this gradually... people
>are hurting out there..."

David Stockman wrote something like that in his book about the time he
had spent in the Office of Management and Budget.  Ronnie and the gang
couldn't figure out what to cut but each made sure that their own ox
wasn't gored ... they got out of that one by borrowing ... Dave quit.

>so i tell you what. keep your precious universal health care. but
>recognize the incredible price you are paying for living in a
>socialist country.

Fine, let's look at a sample of the federal socialist hit list ...
Diefenbaker (Conservative), Pearson (Liberal), Trudeau (Liberal),
Clark (Conservative), Mulroney (Conservative) ... and some longtime
provincial premiers (3+ terms): Lougheed (Alberta, Conservative),
Bourassa (Quebec, Liberal), Davis (Ontario, Conservative), Robarts
(Ontario, Conservative), Hatfield (New Brunswick, Conservative),
W.A.C. Bennett and later Bill Bennett (British Columbia, Social
Credit*).  Omigod -- marxists marxists everywhere! (-; (-; (-;

[By the way, folks, Lougheed is my fave out of the entire list ...]

Before you raise any objections, the reason I've excluded all of the
NDP provincial regimes that we've had out west is because none of them
lasted an appreciable time.  A two-term moderate NDP gov't followed by
a two-term moderate Tory gov't cancels each other out (that happened
in Manitoba, where I'm from).  Dave Barret's mid-70's rad-left NDP
regime crashed and burned pretty quickly, one of the shortest terms
for a government in B.C.  The two Parti Quebecois regimes fizzled 
upon losing the 1980 referendum, their raison d'etre at the time.
Lougheed, Robarts, etc. defined eras and affected federal policy 
in Ottawa.

[* B.C. Social Credit -- a coalition of right-leaning Liberals and
Conservatives.  Quite unique to that province, recently imploded.]

>well, it may be: if you are a consumer, it is. if you are a producer, 
>it is not.

Northern Telecom has not pulled its bluff to move.  In fact, they have
stopped making those noises altogether lately ... I never did think
that they were serious, but I had my worries when I was working with
them ...

>i want people down here to wake up and realize where this country 
>is headed if we keep up with the socialist programs and fiscal
>irresponsibility.  canada is just a few steps ahead on the road 
>to oblivion.

My record in past excursions through this newsgroup has shown that I'm
an advocate of fiscal responsibility ...  It's just that I'm not for
such drastic and sweeping changes as Charles, nor do I view things in
quite a -- *heightened* -- fashion since not all of the programmes
conflict with my basic pro-business, fiscally conservative-but-
socially-liberal bent ... for Charles, I'm just a socialist and 
that's that ... fine, but I'm in good company (see the above 
list of notorious Canadian Reds since the 1950's). (-;

Rather than just jump on reds-under-the-bed, I've read quite a bit of
political history and place myself with the nouveau riches (not quite
there yet, but I'm working on it) who fought for free trade against
the Canadian Establishment of Rosedale, Westmount, Molson, Labatt's
and Eaton's that control our Conservative and Liberal parties.  Our
history of bread-and-circuses for the masses doesn't entirely come
from Marx unless it's the one from the Royal Bank's previous board 
of directors ...

Also, many of the manufacturing losses pointed to by Charles are a
result of US-Canada Free Trade Agreement consolidations (Northern
Telecom did it in the other direction, closing some older American
plants after modernizing in Bramalea, ON and Bromont, QU).  Nobody
said it was going to be easy, but that's free trade for long term
gains (and, other industry is replacing or building up in its place
such as real product mandates for IBM Canada Research, etc.).
Socialism, indeed ...

>>gld (that commie red tory! (-;)
>
>i, for one, never called you any such thing. i just called you 
>a socialist.  that's not rude, is it?

Chill out, I was just having fun ...

It's all relative on the political spectrum.  I'll probably vote for
Mulroney the Conservative again.  You know, that socialist guy ... (-;

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia