From: killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: "The New DEXPO Seminar"
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:45:25 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: SPC Community Access System

In article <12OCT199210535523@carat.arizona.edu>, jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity) writes:
> Left over?  Is this the pot calling the kettle black?  Many successful
> seminars (and sessions) are "left overs" given by people who otherwise
> get paid to give their session for someone else.   And I'd hardly call
> the massive number of Digital Educational Services seminars which DECUS
> offers as "originals."  DES seminars are often given by professional
> presenters who have only a superficial or recent knowledge of the topic
> at hand.  These same presenters cut their teeth on a new seminar at DECUS,
> for this very reason.  "Left over" is not the term that a DECUS leader
> should be throwing around in relationship to Seminars.  

OK if we accept your view of the process (a viewpoint I question because there
are a fair number of folks who only present material at DECUS and no where
else) then what they are offering are is the left overs of the left overs. 

The term "massive" is in the eye beholder - there are 90 user presented
seminars and 29 DES presented seminars in Las Vegas.  75 percent of the
seminars are not DES seminars.  I also know the Seminars committee and DES are 
having discussions right now about improving the flavor of DES seminars.

Like most flames about DECUS services there is some turth in the comments made
which we in DECUS leadership _must_ pay attention to but they can't be
generalized out.  In this case yes there are DES seminars and yes there are
folks who give cut down versions of 3-5 training courses they do elsewhere.
But there are also a fair number of folks who only do DECUS Seminars. 

> Here's how I see it.  DECUS Seminars treats their presenters with the
> minimum they can get away with; has little serious content development
> going on; operates with a massive overhead inappropriate to the needs
> of the group; and is not likely to change significantly for a long
> time---because the objections of people like Kurt are drowned by the
> mindless and unfounded assertions of folks like yourself.

Traveling around to the local events I have a chance to speak with seminar 
speakers.  From what they tell me they feel DECUS takes very good care of them 
these days.  One has pointed out to me that the Chapter is doing a much better 
job than it did a few years ago.

FWIW - I do try to avoid the DECUS leadership affliction of selected hearing. 
I really haven't had a local speakers come up to me a complain - and most, if 
not all, of them speak at national.  However I will start pro-activitly asking 
the question.

>>The proof of value of this activity is while other DECUS products and services
>>have been on a down trend Seminars continues to grow. 
> 
> That proves nothing.  Give me the chain of logic that goes from "people
> buy this product" to "this product is valuable," and try not to think about
> Pet rocks, L.A. Gear Sneakers, and IBM mainframes while you're at it.

Joel this is the one case where you and I will agree to disagree.  If this was 
the mid-80's where just about everything DECUS offered was a winner I would 
agree with you.  But this isn't a case of riding the wave - Seminars are 
clearly bucking the trend line for DECUS products and services.

-- 

Jeff Killeen - DECUS NLC Chair | Email:killeen@eisner.decus.org

DECUS is the user group for folks interested Digital Equipment style computing.
The NLC is the national council for DECUS's Local User Groups - come join us!
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus