From: jlw3y@algol.astro.Virginia.EDU (Jennifer Wesp)
Subject: Re: Friends are different from Lovers.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:31:40 GMT

hoyle@beaufort.sfu.ca (Michelle Hoyle) writes:
>I found your post to be more than a little lacking in
>general coherency.  Nonetheless, being intrigued and interested in
>the topic matter, I decided to write anyways to clarify some
>of the points presented in your brief article.

Alas, I'm out of practice posting.  :)  yes, looking back, it was a
bit incoherent.

>Are you saying that if you have this feeling of "rightness" about someone,
>it matters not whether you are in love with them or going out with them?
>No matter what the circumstances, it would be acceptable for you to sleep
>with them?  

Hmm.  yes and no.  Where the 'right-ness' has been present for people
I didn't respect or want to be friends with, then no, I have not
acted on it.  Generally, the end result has been to completely avoid
the person in question.  This is a very small # of people, though, so
it's hard to say.  When I feel the 'right-ness' soon after meeting a
person, and am interested in them, and from what I can see they are
people that I will respect when I get to know them better, then yes,
sometimes I sleep with them.  The feeling creates sets of
friends-who-can-not-be-lovers and lovers-who-are-not-yet-friends.  

>Are you also saying that you no longer wish to share yourself
>with Greg, but that Greg thinks that it would be okay, for example, if
>you were to visit, that he could sleep with you?

I can not really characterize Greg's current feelings about sleeping
with me, since it's been moot for a while.  At the time when I broke
up with him he would have liked to continue having sex, but of course
he respected my decision on these matters.  Greg doesn't understand
why, if we are permanently seperated, the break-up was such a big
deal to me.  He is afraid that it's because I have lost respect for
him, or have ceased to care for him, which is not true.

>I do not think that there is necessarily a world of difference between
>lovers and friends.  Ideally, a lover should also be your friend.  One
>would argue, indeed, that your lover probably ought to be your best friend.
>Should you happen to have more than one, they should at least be your
>friends.  I do not buy into the ideal of sleeping with people with whom
>there is a sexual "spark"  but naught else.  

Alright, mebbe you aren't wired like me.  Of course, perhaps I'm
deluding myself also.  For me, there seems to be a difference between
friends and lovers, or potential lovers.  I also am not certai that
characterizing this as an "ideal" is a correct interpretation of what
I am saying, I'm making descriptive statements about how I feel, not
proscriptive statements about how people should behave.

>Greg, I suspect, is merely trying to find a way in which he can keep
>some sort of shaky hold to you.  Perhaps he was more strongly in love
>with you than you were with him.  (Especially since you were apparently
>simultaneously in love with Eric and Greg.)  

Greg and I are both now seeking to be friends, to define what that
will mean for us.  Greg wanted me when I no longer wanted him this is
certain.  Yes, for a while at least, I loved both of them quite
deeply.  I am hesitant to make the causal relation that you make,
that I felt more for Eric and therefore less for Greg.  I am not
certain that there is a maximum amount of love I can feel, and that I
give it out in percentages to the people I love, as that sort of
analysis would imply.  Certainly my time is something that gets given
to people in certain amounts, but from what I can see that is not
related to depth of feeling.  Throughout this I have spent more time
interacting with Greg, except for the period while I was with Eric
going cross-country. 

>One has to wonder though, and one does, why you kept a relationship
>going with Greg if you were madly in love with Eric?  Is it because
>Greg possessed that "spark"?  Do you think that you've been fair
>to all parties involved?

Last things first, yes I think I have been fair to all parties
involved.  I have expressed, to the best of my understanding, my
feelings throughout this situation, and left each person to make
their own choices.  I have made mine, and told them to all people
that they affected even indirectly.

My feelings for Eric grew over time.  For a long time I thought that
we would not be together in the end, and that Greg and I would, as I
thought I was staying in Virginia and Eric was moving to CA.  At any
rate, yes, while I was with Greg, I still wanted to be there.  The
relationship was good then, and is good now.  

>You mention that you've been feeling "shockingly monogamous", as if this
>is something unusual or extraordinary.  

For me, it is unusual.  As far as I can remember, it's unique.  I
have in the past agreed to be monogamous, but it has been at the
insistance of the other party and has been a burden, not a desire.

>For most humans, this is the norm, and there are good reasons for
>that.  I think that if you're having trouble embracing monogamy as an
>ideal, you had perhaps best examine the depth and sincerity of your
>feelings.

Hmm.  Perhaps you missed the point of this group?  This is a place
for people who do not feel that the monogamous ideal is valid, for
whatever reason.  We believe that we can love multiple people deeply,
at the same time.  

I would, though, be interested to hear the reasons you think monogamy
should be the norm, and why you think that if I love more than one, I
cannot be sincere.  I cannot accept the assertion that my polyamory
implies insincerity or shallowness of feeling without some strong
arguments.  

-jennifer
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory