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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:48:03 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      God/Allah...

Isn't "Allah" the Islamic word for "GOD"???
Correct me if I'm wrong, but here I go again...
In the movie "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves", there is a scene
in which Azeem is asked by a villiage girl no more than 5,
"Did God Paint you?"
"Azeem" replyed, 'OBVIOUSLY'
Little Girl responded, "Why?"
"Azeem" replyed back to her, "Because 'Allah' loves wonderous variety!"
--------------------
Loved this movie strictly for that scene if no other one.
The innocence of the little girl's question, and the un-biased
response of Morgan Freeman, choked me up, bigtime.
She (the little girl) didn't question what "Azeem" said.
She accepted him, because ...well, because of the way he said it.
-------------------
Lots of Didactic lessons in this movie... If you haven't seen it,
please give it a shot.  Kevin Costner and Mary Elizabeth Masterantonio
are excellent opposites, and the lessons I've learned from watching
are not to be forgotton.
(ick...that's Forgotten)
Like, how to treat someone of a different race, or creed, as a fellow
human being, instead of picking on them just because of skin colour.
Sheesh.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:42:19 -0600
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?

Just a thought on this thread.  Eric's point about how man was created
reminded me that God created man in His own image.  Doesn't that imply
some sort of free will or self determination, not to mention the events
and commands and breaking of commands which followed.

Just wondering

Molly Archibold
From: ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET (Madge McBurney)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Attn. Michael Kline
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:07:41 GMT
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God bless you Michael...sorry I didn't see the ruckus sooner.
Thanks for being such a gentleman in your response to the list.

Christia co-owner   Bitnet:   ispmom@asuacad
Madge McBurney      Internet: ispmom@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 22:14:35 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Mother Theresa....

(I think she's great, and not just because she spells her
name the way I spell mine, (heheheh)    )
If there's one NUN I LOVE, it's Mother Theresa.
She has done so much for those she has been in contact with.
I think the statement she said is PROFOUND...
"It is a great poverty to decide that a Child must die that you
may live as you wish."
She said a mouthful, and more.
----------
Dear Lord Jesus:
Ok, I'm Southern Baptist, but I thank you for this lovely saint.
(I do believe in Saintly people, and she's at the top of my list...)
I pray for strength for this lovely woman, who set all else aside
to serve YOU for her entire life.
That takes lots of Faith, and perserverance...WOW.
Please bless her wherever she travels, and give her the words to
minister in your Holy name.
And, dear Lord, one more thing....
Thank you for all my Catholic friends.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner)
Subject: Re: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:10:04 GMT

Oops.  I see that my message about cannibalism somehow ended up getting posted 
to the Dark Majesty thread.  That should confuse a few people.

-- 
Steve Schaffner        sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
	The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, 
Stanford University, or the DOE.
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:32:07 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CHRIST, NOT PURGATORY

Gareth ;

The NIV is a concept translation, not a "verbatim" sort like the NASB.
The term "flesh" has been debated, and the Context seems to favour
it over the sin nature alternative ... at least in some places.
Again, context defines terms ... not the reverse.



Jesse
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:49:33 CST
From:         "St. Jesso of Esso" <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Gospel
              13 Nov 1992 02:29:18 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Dear Gareth ;

Scripturally speaking, could you give some CONTEXTURAL support along with
Biblical citations to show that I am being ludicrous?

Oh by the way, the criterion which indicates whether one is preaching falsely
or not is the Scriptures ... not fruits.  Truth is not proven via experience
but by an Objective criterion which is consistent at all times in proper
context. This is how the Mormons and JW"s get hung ... they go beyond the
Scriptures and base their systems on someone's experienceor opinions.


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:35:44 EST
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

Why don't we eat humans all the time?  I have several answers to that one.
First, the obvious one: emotional.  I can't see too many people being
able to ship off their newly departed parents, friends, etc. to places
unknown to be devoured.  It's disrespectful  :).

Secondly, it would be a major health risk.  Most people who die do not
die in their "prime", so to speak.  They've either died of old age or
disease, for the most part.  Diseased and meat is out right away, and
people who die of old age probabaly wouldn't have much on them that was
good enough to eat.  And, as we know with chickens and cows, the meat
on older animals is tougher and harder to eat.

Finally, if we ate the dead, how would all the funeral directors make a
living????:)

(sorry if this offended someone...lame attempt at throwing humor on a
rather, uh, delicate subject).
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:56:29 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 11/10

"Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword back.  Shall I not drink of the cup the
Father has given me?"" (John 18:11).

"But God has a way to make people right with him without the law.  And God has
now shown us that way which the law and the prophets told us about" (Romans
3:21).

"We have been made right with God by the blood of Christ's death.  So through
Christ we will surely be saved from God's anger.  I mean that while we were
God's enemies, God made friends with us through the death of his Son.  Surely,
now that we are God's friends, God will save us through his Son's life" (Romans
5:9,10).

"Through Jesus we are now God's friends again" (Romans 5:11).

"But now you are free from sin and have become slaves of God.  This brings you
a life that is only for God.  And this gives you life forever" (Romans 6:22).

"He loved me and gave himself to save me ... If the law could make us right
with God, then Christ did not have to die" (Galatians 2:20,21).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:10:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Jesus as a role model.

Ian, (I think it was Ian), could you provide scriptures that indicate that
Jesus was / is a role model for us?  I have heard this all my live, and
have problems with it, I'd like to see it in the Word.

Dan Graham
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner)
Subject: Re: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:16:25 GMT

Here's what I was attempting to post to the cannibalism thread:

In article <1992Nov6.183024.457@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, 
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
|> In article <CHRISTIA%92110606593665@ASUACAD.BITNET> Brenda Curry-White 
<BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> writes:
|> 
|> >I too saw the documentary on the Donner party.  There is a similar story that
|> >I read once about a party of soccer players whose plane crashed in the Andes.
|> 
|>   The name of the book is _Alive!_. Publisher: Avon Books (?).
|>   The author's name is something like Piers Peter Reed. 
|>   I read it many years ago. Still quite chilling to think about it.

I thought his name was Piers Paul Reid, but I'm not sure how to spell his last 
name either (Read?  Reed?  I guess that pretty well exhausts the 
possibilities).
As I recall, a point was made in that book that, according to RC church 
teaching, cannibalism was permitted as a last resort (killing the um, food 
source first was of course not allowed); this was relevant because most or all 
of the people involved were RC.   I would guess that most theologians or 
ethicists or whatever from other traditions would agree.  But I don't 
suppose it's a question that comes up too often in the sorts of places that 
theologians reside.



-- 
Steve Schaffner        sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
	The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, 
Stanford University, or the DOE.
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:20:20 GMT
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Dear Memo ;

An analogy here (and I know analogies fail at some point ... just get the
main thought):

If I told a girl that "I love your dress -- it's pretty ... I like your
shoes, hey they must be new ... I really like the poetry you write ... but
you see, I really HATE YOU, personally.  I detest YOU!"

Now, obviously, I do not EXHAUSTIVELY hate everything about her, but I
hate her in the way where it REALLY counts.
In colloquial, she can say that "Jesse hates ME!"

Also with the Roman Catholic church.  Obviously when they say,  "Jesus is
Divine by nature", I cannot disagree with that statement.
But, where it counts, according to the book of Galatians, is the GOSPEL.
If a church fails on this one, they "have NO Lampstand."  They are NO
Church.
Rome preaches a Gospel of "Jesus ... PLUS works."
Paul said that anyone ... even an Angel or even himself ... who would preach
ANOTHER Gospel ... he said "may they be Eternally Condemned."

Quantitatively, Rome and I agree on some "Christianese" god-terms, but
qualitatively, Rome has missed the mark no worse than the Devil, himself.

Sorry to say that ... actually I am not ... I am just sad that it HAS to be
this way for ROME.
Now, I am NOT authoritative ... but the Scriptures in their 66 Canonicals ARE.
I encourage all professing believers to take up my challenge to READ the Word
of God in CONTEXT and compare the Gospel of the Scriptures with that of Rome.
One can only WIN by doing so and BELIEVING the Truth.


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 06:34:22 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DAN....

Theresa ;

Hey did yuh know that Dan "the man" was blind?
Mayby he hit his all caps by accident.


"St. Jesso of Esso"
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:03:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      CHRIST AS A ROLE MODEL.

I have mulled over the material presented on this topic and had my wife
read some Greek to me during lunch over the phone.  In both 1 Corinthians
4:16 and 11:1 Paul says to be imitators of him.  In the second case, He
says that he imitates Christ.  Neither verse says that we should imitate
Christ, only PAUL.  NOW, FROM THE PURELY PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, OF COURSE
JESUS WAS PERFECT.  SHOULD WE WANT TO BE LIKE OUR ADOPTED ELDER BROTHER,
CERTAINLY.  THE PROBLEM THAT I HAVE IS THAT CHRIST IS HELD UP AS A STANDARD
OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO ATTAIN, NOT AS SAVIOR ALONE.

HE IS FIRST, MIDDLE AND LAST, OUR SAVIOR.  HIS BLOOD PURCHASES OUR
INDIVIDUAL SALVATION.  HIS LIFE WAS NOT FOR US TO SEE AND TRY TO IMITATE,
IT WAS SO HE COULD DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.  HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW
PERFECTLY TO SHOW WE COULD DO IT, WE CANNOT, NOT IN OUR SINFUL BODIES.
[ONLY THE NEW HEART KEEPS GOD'S WILL PERFECTLY, AND THAT IS TRAPPED WITHIN
A SINFUL BODY AND SINFULLY PROGRAMMED BRAIN.]

IF WE SET CHRIST UP AS OUR EXAMPLE, WE THEN FALL INTO THE "HOW AM I DOING"
TRAP.  HOW YOU AND I ARE DOING IS NOT IMPORTANT, WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS HOW
JESUS IS DOING, AND HE IS DOING PERFECTLY, THANK YOU.

SHOULD WE WANT TO BE CHRISTLIKE IN ALL OUR LIFE SITUATIONS, YES.  SHOULD WE
COMPARE OURSELVES TO HIM AND WORRY ABOUT THE LACKS, NO.  CHRIST ALWAYS
POINTED TO HIS FATHER.  HE SAID TO FOLLOW HIS WORDS SINCE THEY WERE THE
WORDS OF THE FATHER.  YOU CANNOT PERFECTLY EMULATE THE LIFE OF JESUS, HE IS
NOT YOUR ROLE MODEL, HE IS YOUR BROTHER.  IF ANYTHING, PAUL IS YOUR ROLE
MODEL, SINCE HE SAYS HE IS.

WHAT STANDARD DO WE USE TO MEASURE OUR CHRISTIAN LIFE?  NO STANDARD IS
OFFERED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.  WE DON'T NEED A STANDARD, WE NEED ONLY TO
KEEP LOOKING AT THE SAVIOR AND LISTENING TO THE PRODDINGS OF THE SPIRIT.
WE DON'T NEED TO EXAMINE OURSELVES FOR SIN.  PAUL'S EXHORTATIONS TO SELF
EXAMINATION, TAKEN IN CONTEXT, ARE REFERRING TO DOCTRINE AND BELIEF, NOT
SINS.

YOUR TALLY OF SINS HAS NOT THING ONE TO DO WITH YOUR SALVATION, OR KEEPING
YOUR SALVATION, SO WHY COMPARE YOURSELF TO ANYONE?

DAN GRAHAM
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:06:39 EST
From:         TQX@CORNELLC.BITNET
Subject:      Tedious Mail

   I would like to join the chorus in requesting that mail directed
to one individual not be sent to the whole list, e.g. "Sorry, I
misspelled your name." I enjoy the give and take on questions such
as predestination and free-will although it is apparent that we will
never reach a concensus. However, the one-liners that are obviously
intended for an audience of one are a little tedious and time-consuming
to read. How about it fellow contributors? I know it takes a few extra
keystrokes to direct your mail to one individual, but it would help
enhance the efficiency and professionalism of the list. I don't have
any problem with the occasional "Praise the Lord" type posting
because I think we all benefit from them, but I feel like an eaves-
dropper and somehow excluded when I see postings that obviously aren't
intended for me.
                                               In Christ,
                                               Claude Garner
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 9 Nov 1992 08:56:48 CST
From: <U59919@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Fasting makes us different ...
Distribution: world

In the verse Mark 9:29
"So he said to them 'This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting'"
Most people assume that "this kind" means the demon that the disciples could
not cast out.
If one looks, however, in Mk. 9:19 Jesus calls them a "Faithless generation."
And in 9:23, "If you believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
It has been stated in Mt. 10:1, Mk. 6:7, and Lk. 9:1 ,basically, the following:
"He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over
_ALL_ demons,"
Mark 9:29 was not talking about the disciples' lack of power and authority.
It was talking about their disbelief.
The issue is easier to understand in Mt. 17:14-21.

Draw your own conclusions from this above statement,
and check out Philippians 2:12.

Theodore Penn
u59919@uicvm.uic.edu      Internet
u59919@uicvm              Bitnet
1 Cor. 14:2-4
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:17:01 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Silence not = condone.

A couple thoughts for the day...

An ounce of keeping-your-mouth-shut sure beats a ton of
explanation.

Silence can be valuable.  Don't break it unless you can improve
on it.

:-)  Carol Nemec
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:46:44 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply-Prayer Request-Cindy

Greetings Cindy in Jesus Name,

I'm in agreement  with you and Christia prayer warriors  for your mother.
Although I haven't gotten around telling my testimony, I know how serious
any surgery can be.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We praise you and thank you that you will be with Cindy's mother and that
you will guide the surgeon's hand. We  ask Father that she is healed from
the top of her head to the soles of her feet in Jesus Name. We take auth-
ority over this sickness and cast it  out in the Name of Jesus. Father we
thank you in  advance for a speedy  recovery and praise you  for a future
testimony from  Cindy. Please give Cindy  strength and use her  to minis-
ter your love  to others in the  hospital. We praise you  Father and give
you all the glory and honor in Jesus Name.  Amen and Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:54:16 EST
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Predestination or Free Will

On 11/10/92 at 07:44:28 Jesse Carnes said:
>Eric ;

>What would men do with faith in Christ if God attempted to give them that
>gift, apart from first making them "born again" (Regenerated) in order to
>be able to receive the things of God?

>They would spit it out EVERY time.
>No man is willing to come to Christ, unless Christ first makes that man
>willing.  Left to their old decadant selves, men will ALWAYS REJECT the grace
>of God and faith in Christ, unless God first does something a priori in those
>men.
>We, like dogs would return to our vomit, unless the Lord first would make us
>alive by His Spirit, then we are able to TURN by faith to Christ.

>A dead man as NO faith ... a dead man has no power to obey ... a dead man
>cannot receive faith as a gift ... a dead man is dead.

THis is true.  But God judges us upon our hearts and our hearts are
naturally turned to evil.  Supposing that I witness to someone whose
heart is turned toward evil and I show him the scriptures and he desires
to know Christ and God sees this change in his heart and calls him to
salvation?  This argument could be absolutely possible.  We have no proof
of anything except that the scriptures call us to witness.  THis predest-
tination argument can only be argued.  It cannot be proven beyond a doubt
and we should not put boundaries upon God. Christ died for all sins.  God
calls us to salvation.  God judges upon the heart.  WE are to witness to
the unsaved.  These are all facts.
>Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:00:26 -0700
From:         "(Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu)"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Morality in the military

Dear Eric:

     You write:

> Actually adultery is ILLEGAL in the military (last time I
> checked) and can bring court-martial, and so can lying (to
> the wrong person, at least).

> The military should be praised for upholding traditional
>  morals and ethics . . . punishment is much stricter in
> the military than in the civilian world, and more things
> are acceptable in the civilian world.

     I do not mean to burst your bubble, but I think the
military forbids adultery so that they have a hard and fast
rule for soldiers to go by just in case the KGB, Soviet
Army, or any other enemy does send some of its lovelies to
visit these lonely soldiers, the soldiers know they are not
supposed to be fooling around and thus are not as easy to
pry secret information from.  I used to be in the Marines,
and the guys who had a lot of "notches on their belts" were
held in far higher regard than those who had never fooled
around before.  Morality did not have much of a place there,
and most of the guys I was with made it quite clear that
they intended to do this (or fornication, as is more likely)
as soon as they graduated boot camp and left the base.  I
also think the same thing applies to lying.  In summary, I
think the military adopted these rules to make it harder to
blackmail its soldiers.  I do not think they are for making
the soldier moral, and I doubt this rule is enforced enough
to intimidate the masses of soldiers into obedience.  The
Marines who were stationed in Moscow were proof enough of
that...

     This is in no way intended as a personal attack, just
some thoughts from one who used to be in...

                         God Bless,



                            Glenn
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:50:37 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?

Excerpts from christia: 10-Nov-92 Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD? Jesse
Carnes@LSUVM.BITNE (499)

> Eric ;

> If you believe that Lazarus REALLY could have desired to come forth from
> the dead while STILL dead, then you need some serious PRAYER. WHEW!
> Dead men, as the writer of Ecclesiastes shows, desire NOTHING.  All of
> their desires, plans, hopes, dreams are all   G O N E. Eric ... now
> seriously, you can't be on the level when you said what you did about
> Lazarus can you ? ... you were jesting were you not? No sane person
> would hold to that proposition unless they were merely jesting.

Of course I was serious.  See the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
The physically dead of the time were conscious and went to the bosom of
Abraham (if righteous).  Even the rich man expressed desires, right?  He
DESIRED that Abraham warn his relatives?  He DESIRED that Lazarus cool
his tongue? Did not the dead rich man express DESIRES, HOPES, and so
forth?

Eric
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:46:41 CST
From:         "St. Jesso of Esso" <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?
              13 Nov 1992 01:26:10 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Dear Gareth ;

What I will do, hopefully on Monday is give a "bibliography", as it were,
of Biblical citations on the depraved state of Man.

OK?


Jesse Carnes
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