From: gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain)
Subject: Japanese economy (Was: Re: GST - double tax?)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:28:38 GMT

In <dyfl.724479593@phobos> dyfl@kbs.citri.edu.au (Daniel Lam) writes:
>gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>>Not that I would complain if I were to see Japan's economy go down the
>>toilet for being the most restrictive and protectionist in history,

>That is the natural consequence of protectionism.

Not necessarily.

>>but perhaps you would care to explain what you mean by "virtually collapsed"?

>To put it in a nutshell, the prices of those things which foreigners
>are barred from selling (e.g. certain foods) are going through the
>roof, while the prices of those things which foreigners are barred
>from buying (e.g. real estate) are going through the floor.

So how exactly does that show that Japan's economy is "virtually collapsed"?
BTW, where you have "e.g. certain foods", you can put "almost all foods,
and basically anything that the Japanese can make themselves, no matter
how inefficiently, and anything else they don't particularly feel you should
be allowed to sell in thier economy", and where you have "e.g. real estate",
you can add "any Japanese company or financial entity". Not to say the value
of all of these things is behaving as you describe. Some are quite the
contrary. (Facts from a friend of mine who has spent the last 10 months in
Japan).

>>After all, Japanese have a captive market who can either buy their goods
>>and services, or go without. Perhaps the Japanese are starving in protest
>>against the companies that imorally crush the competition in foreign
>>markets to make profits that help toward employing them?

>What are you complaining about?  That the Japanese produce things for
>the rest of the world to enjoy without enjoying the products of the
>rest of the world?  Sounds terribly generous to me.

It doesn't sound so generous to me. The Japanese systematically take over
various markets in foreign countries by dumping there and selling far above
cost at home, while prohibiting foreign companies to sell anything in Japan.
That is why they are the richest per-capita economy in the world, and
if the U.S. don't wake up to themselves, very soon the Japanese will be the
richest economy, period. But that's another thread...

>This kind of attitude is just old-fashioned mercantilism.
>The general argument goes: in order to produce goods which consumers
>want, which perhaps require a lengthy produciton process, it is
>necessarily to save and accumulate capital, i.e. to have an excess of
>production over consumption.  Therefore production is good and
>consumption is bad.  This is nothing but faulty logic.  The end of
>production is consumption.  There is no point in producing anything
>which will be ultimately result in additional consumption.
>The mercantilist position with regard to international trade is
>similar.  We need to export in order to pay for the imports which we
>enjoy so much.  Therefore exports are good and imports bad.  This is
>entirely fallacious.  Yet it seems that crude mercantilism pervades
>popular economic notions.

In your capitalist/anarchist Utopia, where the rich get richer and the
poor get poorer, how does one get rich, but for consuming less than one sells?
By means both fair and (mostly) foul, this is exactly what the Japanese have
done, and they sure have got rich from it. But, that should please you no
end, Daniel, for getting rich is what you espouse underneath the cloak
of anarchy/capitalism you wear. I can see that you would feel that _Wall
Street_ had a most unfair ending....

Marty.
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Martin J. Gleeson  | Computer Science, Melbourne Uni, Oz |    ...  __o    Outta
gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au |     E Pluribus Unix         |  ...   -\<,       my
"We gladly feast on those who would subdue us." - Addams |  ....(_)/(_)..  way!
 "I can't give you brains, but I can give you a diploma." - The Wizard of Oz
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