HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:18:13 GMT

The damn editor just floated my article away.
Damn pico.
O well.  In it I bitched about my break and about the myriad of 
medical problems which struck my family.
I also bitched about my mother who "came out" as quite the homophobic
bigot.  "I don't like homosexuals, because they are promiscuous."
In addition to that she said lots of things like she doesn't like to
even touch them because they are at such a risk for AIDS.  She just
flat out doesn't like them . (period)
BTW, she hasn't the foggiest about my bihood.
I bitched about my infatuation-lust-admiration of a good friend who
I just really got to know, which was for not, because of her "involvement"
with someone who happened to visit halfway through the break.
I love run on sentences.

I growled because of the pragmatic nature of everything and the lack of
any amount of liberal thinking(social or civil) in damn near anyone I hang
out with.  Hell, A good number of them think that Rush Limbaugh is right.
(For those of you who don't know, Rush is a waste of air who is anti-feminist,
anti-environmentalist, anti-nonchristian, conservative freak who if he wasn't
so much showmanship would be a bit of a pain)
Not that it follows that pragmatism=lack of liberalism - I am just flustered
and grumpy.  I have lots of decisions to make on the future.  I find that my 
internal desires do not agree with the Zeitgeist's and the Elterngeist's 
ideas of common sense, usefulness, and feasability.

I am quite annoyed with being closetted.  I want to be out and sincere with the
people who I meet and know.
I have a question for the bunch.  Where does the balance lie between discretion
and safety on one hand and sincerity and openness on the other?

Hugs to all exmuffins.  I will get to posting as soon as I get out of this funk.
I noticed that we have a Pooh now.  and a Piglet too.  Very appropriate since
I just read The Te of Piglet and may reread the Tao of Pooh.  Amusing books.
A little harsh on Confucianism and a little nice to Taoism but hey still 
amusing.  I feel like Eeyore to day.  But hopefully I will return to my
normal old TIgger self.  Tired grin verging on cynicism and resignation
(O GOD I NEED HUGS)  I feel _very_ old.  

Thank you for allowing me to ramble.  I know that I did too.

Peace and inner tranquility to all.

-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: becki@Ingres.COM (Rebecca E. Tants)
Subject: Re: What's a "partner"? (was Re: treating men as sex toys)
Reply-To: becki@squid.ingres.com (Rebecca E. Tants)
Organization: Ingres, The ASK Group
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:04:56 GMT

The_Devine_Dolly (iw@tosser.Rational.COM) wrote:
: becki@Ingres.COM (Rebecca E. Tants) writes:
: I have a very similar relationship, though we never broke up, just
: moved to different countries.  Nothing sexual, beyond the occasional
: public kiss for shock value, ever happened between us.  But we might
: as well have been lovers, our lives were totally entwined.  We still
: are very careful about each others SO`s and tend to minimize the time
: we spend to gether with an SO in tow.

We were always happier when we both had someone - if only one had someone
we got into all the jealousy etc you could expect...it got nasty....

: >i see it as the very early roots of my bisexualism - all that was missing
: >was the sex.  i had that same level of emotional intimacy and closeness
: >with her as with the best of my relationships before or since (more then
: >most) and THAT, i think, is what muffy was refering to when she mentioned
: >"emotional relationships".
: So we have an ism now :-)  But becki, do you think that it is the early
: roots of your bisexuality, or just something you were not ready
: to consummate.  Knowing more about yourself now, would you expect this
: relationship to be sexual if it were to happen over again today.

Hmmmm...interesting question.  No, we wouldn't be sexually involved now,
because she wouldn't go for it and I wouldn't push.  However, I look back and
see places where I almost tried to start something physical and was either
to scared or too subtle to accomplish the task.  

i see it more as the roots of my NOTICING that i could have that same kind
of relationship with people of either gender - i spent 4 months actively
recovering from that breakup, and it wasn't until i was speaking to someone
who wasn't involved in the situationa dn trying to explain it that i hit
upon the fact that it was JUST like a marital breakup.  that's when i 
started thinking back on the whole thing and reanalyzing my feelings.  it
was the reanalysis that helped me to get over the whole thing...i would
still have been hurt and confused for a long time if i hadn't stumbled
across that truth.....

sexually, i'd always been attracted to other women, but it wasn't until the
last year or so that i've done anything about that attraction.  however to 
me that's not the whole issue.  it's that nebulous type of relationship
that you have with a primary partner - that almost complete emotional
intimacy - that i just don't have with friends in the same way that i
had it with her and have had it with lovers.

does that make any sense at all?  i reread it and wonder - i'm trying to 
get across a very small difference in feeling, and i just don't have the
words to do it with.  it's a subtle but very key difference.....

*hugs*
Becki

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mort@quads.uchicago.edu (Dave 'Mort' Mortman)
Subject: Re: Help! I need somebody, Help! Not just anybody! (Beatles, Help)
Reply-To: mort@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:20:50 GMT

Check with Joe Woodhouse, he lives in Melbourne and posts to soc.bi
regularily
-mort

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells)
Subject: Any (other) UU Bis out there ?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:05:23 GMT


Subject line says it all, except to ask if any Unitarian Universalist
Bi's know about the UU Bisexual Network. It looks new and "outside the
loop," but that's my impression from the ad they ran in the _World_

-- 
Scott Wells                        +  Always looking for (of all things)
Internet: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu  +  Christian Unitarians and Universalists
University of Georgia		   +  . . . before the UUA runs us out.
Athens, Georgia, USA               +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: becki@Ingres.COM (Rebecca E. Tants)
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Reply-To: becki@squid.ingres.com (Rebecca E. Tants)
Organization: Ingres, The ASK Group
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:46:41 GMT

:>I am quite annoyed with being closetted. I want to be out and sincere with the
:>people who I meet and know.
:>I have a question for the bunch. Where does the balance lie between discretion
:>and safety on one hand and sincerity and openness on the other?
:oh oh  I know that one... *ouch*  I came out to my family about 6 years ago
:and that was quite hellish, though in the end things turned out ok.  My parents
:were incredibly strict Catholics who have (partly due to me) mellowed
:somewhat.  I haven't actually dated a woman in a long time, and I get the
:feeling that my parents have assumed that `it was a phase'

Fascinating question - living in the bay area, i can get away with a lot,
but ... 

Lately I've been examining my own thoughts on being closetted.  I'm not really.
but as well as this group and polyamory, i also read alt.sex.bondage - and post
anonymously - so what is it about that group that makes me feel unsafe while i
feel safe enough to post non-anonymously here?  and then toss in the fact that
while i'm out to almost all of my friends, i'm not out to my family?

my feeling has always been towards not telling anyone who doesn't have a 
reason to know, but also not NOT telling anyone either.  my sexual habits
are not a topic of conversation with my mother, therefore they don't come
up.  as a lesbian friend of mine says, people are VERY willing to overlook 
most things with two women involved, so it's easy not to let my mother 
know.  

maybe it's because of the circles of friends i travel in, but i've never 
gotten more then an odd look when telling someone i was bi.  

i guess this question fascinates me because i feel hypocritical.  i'll be out
to tens of thousands of people about some things but not about others.  yet
both could conceivably bias people against me.  My choice to stay somewhat
anonymous (and it really is far from thorough) in asb is mostly due to my
worry that if i do a professional presentation or publish something in a trade
magazine, that people will be biased about what i say due to knowing my
inclinations.  but wouldn't they be so about my being bi?  or poly?  

wish i knew that answer....

Becki

(p.s. yes, that was a de-muffining i guess....)
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I'm coming!
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:38:36 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

seamus@chopin.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>becki@squid.ingres.com (Rebecca E. Tants) writes:
>>
>>Becki (aka Roo if you read the right news groups....)
>
>More Pooh stuff. :)  Yeah.  Now who wants to be Kanga?
>:)

Me me me!  (With hugs to Roo, my better half ... or is that third?
Polyamory can be *sooo* confusing :-)

This is just a gratuitous excuse to post and let the soc.bi cabal know
that I'm safe and well(ish) in San Fran, and have established electronic
connection with the outside world again (albeit rudely interrupted when
I, ah, poured a glass of water over my computer ... *fizz* :-( ).

Wild hugs to all
Mike, the rejuvenated, with a 400 article backlog in this group alone
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Bisexual support group(input needed)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 07:03:59 GMT

I have just recently become part of a bisexual support group.
We have eight members or so and are just forming.
I would like input on possible topics and possible directions to
take it.  We are looking at increasing awareness and understanding
in the GL community.  Any advice?  
BTW, Albert we are using your paper for some guidelines and ideas.
I am open to any and all ideas.  And hey if anyone in the Philly/
delaware/Baltimore area wants in just mail me.
Thanks in advance.

and Thanks for everyone who has given me hugs.
I feel so empowered by this group, I could just burst.
:)

Hugs to one and all.

-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: NEWS FLASH!  Tori on The Tonight Show 1/12
Summary: TSIA
Keywords: tori sexy hot wow
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:21:41 GMT

    Sorry for the late notice, but for you Tori Amos fans, she'll be on
the Tonight Show tonight, Tuesday, 1/12 at 11:30 EST.  You can bet I'll
be glued to the set, and that's definitely a first for me and Jay Leno!  :-)

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado." - Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: This is only a test
Summary: And it certainly has *no* bi-relevance.
Keywords: I'm back
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:18:06 GMT

In article <1ii801INNq87@transfer.stratus.com> pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland) writes:
|Now come on, Unix isn't that bad, it's just those arcane
|two-and-three letter command names and all those obscure
|switches, and those three or four flavors of shells...

  As compared to???  (One considers the popular alternatives: the
Mac OS, MS-DOS, which is infected with a serious case of stupid
naming conventions, AmigaDog, and all the gawdawful proprietary
OSes out there, with bizarre _everything_.  One considers, and then
shudders in horror, and thanks the gods that it's still possible
for people to play with computers that run a reasonable OS.)

                ____
  david parsons \bi/ Who has to use a Mac for his latest project, and is
                 \/  learning to loathe the machine and its little dog too.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Urgent notice!
Keywords: Make up your own.
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:48:41 GMT

In article <1r#3q=h@rpi.edu> safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:

>Warning!  It has been noted by our professional and tireless staff that not
>enough fluff has been posted to soc.bi.  This may cause numerous detremental
>effects, including, severly annoyed postees, serious thought, ppermanent
>frowns, fewer government dollars spent and more boring reading for those
>of us who can't take ourselves seriously.

I have been one of the major perpetrators of these acts, and while I don't
apologize I will try to add to the levity of the group inthe future.
(boy that was stiff)
OK boing.  Let me loosen up here.  
hugs and slurps to all I have annoyed.  If you don't like the threads of
seriousness then kill them because I still want to have them.
I guess it has gotten serioius when john starts posting to serious threads
Geez.  Well OK. 
If anyone wants them, have not only hugs kisses rubs and gropes
but also full fledged investigations of bodies with your favorite organ
(that does not include my spleen), tongue audits, ice cubes, candle wax,
and peach schnapps(if you haven't tried it do.  It evaporates o so nicely
and it tastes o so good. :). 
 
>We have given this problem serious (for us) consideration, and have
>decided that there is but one solution.  More fluff must be posted.
>Tell your friends.  Tell your enemies.  Tell your friend's friends.
>Tell your enemy's friends.  And tell your mother-in-law too.
><Urgent call for fluff in soc.bi morse-code sound overlay>

hug hug hug kiss kiss kiss hug hug hug

>We now return you to your regularly scheduled flame, thank you for your time.
>
>-Points (We control the vertical... we control the...)

See I even changed my sig in the nature of fun. \|/

Jim, who is posting this in the nude.
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
If you can't be good,               It just means use your imagination. 
be good at it.  T.B.                     Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:03:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.172324.4416@vpnet.chi.il.us> 
 orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes:
>In article <C0F82s.MnG@news.udel.edu> 
 seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>|I like the label of bisexuality because to me it represents the
>|closest position to the rejection of artificial distinctions as I can get.
>|But yet with it I can still find an identity and a community.  I think that
>|the labels of het, gay, bi and such are intrinsically false and that they
>|needn't exist if the above conditions prevailed. 
>
>   They describe behavior and/or orientation, and thus are
>perfectly accurate.  They may not be very precise; bisexual applies
>to me, a Kinsey 1/4(*), just as it would describe a Kinsey 3/3 or a
>Kinsey 5/5.  Use it as a part of a winnowing process to describe
>someone - it helps resolve your image of that person.
>
>(* theoretical Kinsey 1, experimental Kinsey 4)
>
>   If you don't use the labels het, gay, or bi, what then will be
>used?  It's a wonderful shorthand, so we don't have to spend all day
>describing ourselves. 

I think the trick is to use labels without being used by them. We need
them to build community and politics and to communicate, but it is
unwise to let them take on a life of their own.  

"Bisexual" is a category with such fuzzy edges that I will resist 
any attempt to make it "perfectly clear", or to take one of its 
many aspects and reduce that alone to the definition.

"If they 'draw the line' it will likely be down my middle" 
    -- me

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:34:42 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Australians (was Re: accidently out)
 <1993Jan3.074334.4732@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
 <1993Jan4.192506.4720@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
 <1993Jan4.204539.28035@cbnews.cb.att.com>

In article <1993Jan4.204539.28035@cbnews.cb.att.com>, eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com
(Piglet) says:
>
>In article <1993Jan4.192506.4720@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay
>Dekker) writes:
>>As someone who has long wished to traumatise Ms Bush, I'm now not
>[mass deletions, before and after]

>Well, she's not--That Party is "Tory", not "Tori".  nyah.  And ignore
>the Kate Bush reference--you _will_ love her (you are getting sleepier
>and sleepier...).  Trust me.  I know what I'm doing....and I've Never
>understood the Kate Bush thing.
>
>
>Piglet

*sigh*
What 'Kate Bush thing'?  All I've ever noticed is that her albums
come out with too many years between them.

Clue, please?

Graydon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saundrsg@               "Praise then Darkness and Creation unfinished"
   qucdn.queensu.ca                   - U. K. LeGuin
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eowyn@chopin.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis)
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:40:36 GMT

In article <30111@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@festival.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>
>Did this thread crop up because of our very own Elizabeth Holden's
>letter appearing there?  Anyway, yeah, Death is dead cute (pun intended)
>and I share Morag's fixation with gothy women (and guys for that matter
>- ain't Dream dreamy?)
>
>Sara

No, I can finally take credit for starting a thread on the net!  yay!
Desire is cute, too; but it's personality leaves something to be desired...
ha-ha.  Didn't see the pun coming until it bit me in the face.  Really.

And Dream...well, as I mentioned before, I drooled over a guy on campus who
has Morpheus painted on the back of his (black) jeans jacket.  I drooled 
over the painting, too, of course!
(-:
Zoe 
(definitely Kinsey 2 and falling)
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: treating men as sex toys
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:30:05
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1993Jan6.003447.9553@udel.edu>
	<1993Jan6.105512.2001@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk's message of 6 Jan 93 10:55:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.105512.2001@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
>In article <MUFFY.92Dec24114049@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>>Without getting into "what is *really* bisexual," my personal definition
>>of bisexual is not simply having sex with both men and women, but being
>>*interested* in both men and women, as people, as emotional partners, as
>>well as as sexual partners.  

>What do you mean by "emotional partner" (as distinct from a close friend)?

Well, for me, it really isn't that distinct, actually...*smile*.  I
realized a couple of years ago that the only difference between my close
friends and my lovers was how much I wanted to have sex with them.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: winsor@teng.ppd.ti.com (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: general dissatisfaction
Date: 12 Jan 1993 18:44:42 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: world
Reply-To: winsor@teng.ppd.ti.com (js)
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <C0pIGI.83@news.udel.edu>, seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
} In article <1isilbINNesr@cuda.add.itg.ti.com> winsor@geek. (js) writes:
} >
} >   btw---for general knowledge....
} >   Jim gives really good hugs.  (Thanks, Jim!)
} >And Jim needs to demostrate, now...
} >
} >Wonderful!  Now, how do I get mine, too?!  "Jim" that is,
} >I can handle the white zinfandel myself.  *grin*
} >
} >john "it's only 2500 miles or so"  js
} >   
} >wink wink nudge nudge saynomore saynomore
} 
} Well, i hear that they are coming out with a blow-up doll of me due out
} in may. :)  2500 miles, hmm? well under my frequent flyer plan
} it would really be worth the trip. ;)
Internal calculator going berzerk.  <carry the 12, multiply the arctan,
invert the ln, and convert to base34>  Means I should be able to afford
a New England vacation in 11.364 years.

Or, did I get the FFplan inverted?  Or, was it the csc of the ln(arctan)?

john
-- 
The opinions expressed in the above do not reflect those of
my employer, or anybody connected with my employer.  Including me.
From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bloody Media
Keywords: aaarrgghhh!!!!
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:21:14 GMT
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: UEA School of Information Systems, Norwich, UK.

In <C0K0qF.D8u@unix.portal.com> drakon@shell.portal.com (Harry Benjamin Gibson) writes:
>Most people can't see the simple fact that
>they can do all those things too.
>
>Ben Gibson(life is too short not to be enjoyed)

Ha.  Life is too dreadful not to be short.

--                                ____
Richard Kennaway                  \ _/__    School of Information Systems
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk       \X  /    University of East Anglia
uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk      \/     Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: Impossible acts
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:19:05 GMT

C.G.C.vanDijk@IO.TUDelft.NL writes:
> > In that case, I'm going to do it all over again!
> > HUG! HUG! HUGHUGHUG!  HUG-HUGGETY-HUG-HUG! HIG-HOG-HUG (HUIUS-HUIUS-HUIUS)
> 
> Hah, bet you are all jealous now.

If that would cause more hugs to come my way, then YES!  :)

Just to show that I can post blatant fluff just like the rest of you.

-"Archer"
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Newsgroups: soc.bi