HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kubipdal@uts.uni-c.dk (Peter Dalg}rd)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: How do you deal with Black Ice?
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:29:29 GMT
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education

You guys should have seen what happened to Denmark this Tuesday!
Temperature had been around -5C for some days. Then milder weather
and rain came along. Unfortunately the rain came first. Within
half an hour everything was covered in 1-2 cm of wet ice. Miraculously,
only three people got killed.

I stayed in my office until 21.45 that night. At that time the main roads
had been salted so that it was possible to use them with some care 
(apparently, the salt works best after being driven on and I was in
no mood to be the first to do it! I had about a 30cm wide path to ride in
most of the way, except for the last bit where the bike path was unusable so
I had to go into the middle of the road), but when I got to about 200 m from
our house, I had to leave the bike and do the remaining bit on foot,
with about a 20 cm steplength. Took me 40 minutes to go 6 km.

	Peter Dalgaard (pd@kubism.ku.dk)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: beldar@MicroUnity.Com (Gardner Cohen)
Subject: Re: Black Ice vs Summer Ice
Distribution: na
Reply-To: beldar@MicroUnity.com
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:47:28
Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v3.06.


In article <1993Jan8.152832.2028@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> mschweder@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu (Mark Schweder) writes:

   All this talk about BLACK ICE, does anyone know what SUMMER ICE is?

And GLARE ICE?
--
Gardner Cohen / beldar@microunity.com / 408-734-8100
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: How do you deal with Black Ice?
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:25:06 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:56:54 GMT
>FROM:   Marc San Soucie <marcs@slc.com>
>I find the term 'black ice' highly descriptive - an 'icy road' to me is one 
>with an apparent and likely thick coating of ice, while 'black ice' is 
>small patches of ice that lurk in shady spots or in unexpected locations, 
>and which, because of their thinness, are difficult to see.
>
>Moan if you must, but to my ears these terms are endearing.
>
>    Marc San Soucie
>    Portland, Oregon
>    marcs@slc.com

I think "Black Ice" sounds like the name of a German rock band.

--Michael Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: javier@cs.toronto.edu (Javier Pinto)
Subject: Re: Training questions.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:59:53 GMT

jasmith@admin1.memst.edu (John) writes:

>Hi again folks.
>Well, I see that everyones shot down my idea about safety.  No more ideas
>right now.  

...

>hard as you train and more power to you, but I'm not a commuter.  One question
>about commuting.  When you commute are you taking a relaxing ride or are you 
>getting a good work out. 

A while back I took every commute as a workout. So I'd sprint after every
light and try to keep a good pace. However, after one collision and many
close calls I decided to commute as the rest of the bike commuters, that is
slooow. Therefore, it is not a workout anymore. I now don't have as many
close calls, specially because I have time to react to almost anything. 

BTW, the collision and most (all) close calls were due to car operators
unwilling to respect my right to the road.

With respect to your training question, I don't have any help to offer.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: freytag@seas.gwu.edu (Richard Freytag)
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Followup-To: freytag@seas.gwu.edu
Keywords: bicycles, superior bicycles
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:57:28 GMT

Steve Manifold writes.....
Just wondering.  Why is it that recumbent riders (well, some recumbent riders
at least) feel it necessary to preach their "recumbent is superior" sermon to
the rest of us.  We all know about recumbents and their advantages.  Why are
they so insistent?  Is it politically correct to ride a recumbent instead of
a diamond frame?

Richard Freytag replies....
Well my experience is not even a small fraction of the head-firsters 
know the advantages.  If they did then I wouldn't get the same darn
questions all the time.  If you are going to spend $>600 on a bike
which some people on this newsgroup do then a 'bent is the way to 
go, unless your racing as the racing authorities have seen fit to outlaw
'bents.  I think any attitude towards 'bents and from those sitting in
them stems from official biking's refusal to treat 'bents as legal
bicycles for races.  

Why, for instance, don't you, yes YOU reading this now, ride a 'bent 
instead of that death-trap "standard" model your on usually?  

This ought to be interesting.  

-Richard Freytag
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold)
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Keywords: bicycles
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:57:28 GMT

In article <%mikew.7.0@%MikeW@canc.byu.edu>, %mikew@%MikeW@canc.byu.edu (Mike Wieda) writes:
> 
> I've found a soloution to many of the complaints of contemporary cyclists:  
> the recumbent bicycle.  
> 
(Lots of stuff about the "superiority" of recumbents deleted)

Just wondering.  Why is it that recumbent riders (well, some recumbent riders
at least) feel it necessary to preach their "recumbent is superior" sermon to
the rest of us.  We all know about recumbents and their advantages.  Why are
they so insistent?  Is it politically correct to ride a recumbent instead of
a diamond frame?


-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Manifold                                              University of Texas 
ezag637@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu                           College of Engineering
tasc637@crovax.cem.utexas.edu                       Center for Electromechanics
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: Kevin_bailey@qmgate.anl.gov (Kevin Bailey)
Subject: Re: Buying a bicycle for a short person - I'm 5'2"
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Argonne, Illinois
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:12:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.211655.46072@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
wagner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
> 
> In article <18516@borg.cs.unc.edu>, barman@jackson.cs.unc.edu (Dilip Barman) writes:
> > 
> > 
> > Hi -
.
.
.
>Do you guys have other suggestions?  I know I'm short, but surely there
> > are a good number of other short bikers.  I'm between 5'1" and 5'2".

Fisher makes a 12 inch frame and Specialized makes a 14.5 inch frame(I have
one)

*****************************************************************************

Kevin_Bailey@qmgate.anl.gov

*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: where do jocks buy jeans?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:52:04 GMT
Followup-To: misc.fitness
Keywords: hard-to-fit

Now that I have dropped 27 lbs and got my old physique back, I find it
hard to buy pants again.  As for dress pants, I'm gonna have to re-acquaint
myself with my tailor.  As for casual pants (ie., jeans, khakis, and twills),
some brands fit and some don't.  The problem that I have with the ones that
_don't fit_ is that they tend to be cut too-tight in the thigh _and_ too
big in the waist.  Sound familiar?  I find that casuals by BLUEZONE and
BUGLE-BOY tend to fit me pretty well, as do painters/carpenters pants by
CARHART.  Now that I have lost my spare tire and butt, LEE, LEVI'S, and
WRANGLER jeans simply do not fit.  I had some hope for the new crop of
"loose fitting" jeans by LEE and LEVI'S, until I tried some on.  I found
a pair that _almost_ fit, except that I could barely get my ankle thru
the cuff.  Had I bought them, I would not have been able to wear any kind
of boots with them.  (I have cowboy boots and work boots that I like to wear.)

What I want to know is where do other wanna-be-jock-types get their
jeans from?

Keith R
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: I did a good thing today
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 05:29:17 GMT

In article <tschorer-060193090839@starmac5.mbl.edu> tschorer@hoh.mbl.edu (Tim Schorer) writes:
>
>                                                        This fellow was
>smart enoughto be doing all of this in a COMPANY TRUCK!

Last summer, I called a local tire shop to complain about one of their
drivers who had tried to cut me off in the left-turn lane at a light.
(This happened at about 10PM, on a Saturday night, so I wasn't surprised
to see the truck parked at the beer store down the road.)

"I'm a cyclist too," was the first thing the assistant manager said.
Then, he asked me a couple of questions:  "He went to the BEER store?"
"Yes."  "Was he alone?"  "No, there was another guy and a kid with him."
"Hmm, our trucks are supposed to be used only to respond to calls - I'll
have a talk with him . . ."

Surely, there is no greater stupidity than pissing off other road users
in the company truck!

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Identification
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 13:35:55 GMT

>> I write important info on a piece of masking tape and stick it inside my
>>helmet. I wonder if anyone would think to look there though?
>>
>	IMHO, an accident bad enough to require immediate medical
>attention would probably mean a destroyed helmet.  The paper could be
>torn away from helmet and blow away in the breeze.
>	I do like the idea of the dog tags and will probably go to the
>local army surplus store to get a pair.
>>-- 

Hmm.  Where do these dog tags go?  In other active sports that I've been
involved in it's always been considered a bad idea to wear anything
around your neck that might catch on something.

-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Keywords: bicycles, superior bicycles
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:27:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan12.055728.21758@seas.gwu.edu> freytag@seas.gwu.edu (Richard Freytag) writes:
>
>Why, for instance, don't you, yes YOU reading this now, ride a 'bent 
>instead of that death-trap "standard" model your on usually?  
>
>This ought to be interesting.  
>
>-Richard Freytag

	Okay, I'll bite.  How's this:  Because noone makes a RECUMBENT MTB!?!?!
	Because I don't have $1000 to spend on a bike?!?!?!?
	Because it's already enough of a pain to carry my bike up and down 
	stairs in my apartment building.
	Because I don't have enough room in my apartment.

	Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of recumbents.  My bike shop owner
	is presently on a HUGE recumbent kick, and he now ownes 2 Linears.
	He just put a fairing on one of them.  Every time I go there, he
	praises them.  I'd LOVE to try one.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                                O   
University of Pittsburgh                           _ /__,     
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu          (_) /(_) 
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!           			   "Why am I so late?  It took me 
					    25 minutes to decide which bike
					    to ride!"--me. 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer)
Subject: Re: Training questions.
Reply-To: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Organization: University of Tokyo / Object Technology International
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:25:06 GMT
X-Bytes: 1731

In article <1993Jan4.130031.4846@admin1.memst.edu> jasmith@admin1.memst.edu (John) writes:

 >I'm sure you people wouldn't like my ideas anyway.  

maybe because they are set out in such a way as to imply that everyone
else is stupid and you have the only sane view of things.

 >I curious about
 >training.  Do any of you cyclist think you have a good cycling program set up?

Yes, I have the ultimate, the perfect, the optimal training program.
And it works exactly the way I want.

 >I'm not really interested in commuters training programs either.  I think their
 >too relaxed.  I don't have anything against commuters, but I don't consider 
 >that part of training.  I sure that some of you people might commute just as 
 >hard as you train and more power to you, but I'm not a commuter.  One question
 >about commuting.  When you commute are you taking a relaxing ride or are you 
 >getting a good work out.  I don't know.  All I know is sometimes I commute to
 >the fitness center to go swimming or to a park to play basket ball, and I'm not
 >going to get tired before I do the activity I was planning on doing.  My route

Come on, think about what you are saying.  You are not interested in
commuting as exercise because it is "too relaxed" yet by your own
admission you have no idea what people who do commute training do!
Further, you wouldn't want to fast commute to swim or play BB as you
might get tired.  What, commuting could be exercise?!  Tiring?  My
god, it may be useful as training?!

I know lots of people who commute more than you "train".  Don't fool
yourself into thinking that you can't get a workout.  miles are miles.
You can put in as much effort as you want.

--
ato de, |m        -- Death by stereo!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams)
Subject: Re: How do you deal with Black Ice?
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:25:36 GMT

William Koenig Lloyd (lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Black ice is clear ice.  Why they don't just call it ice I'm not sure.  Maybe
: people just feel the word ice is begging for an adjective, or maybe ice is
: special when it's on a road...
: 

Here in Minnesota we have plenty of ice but I have never heard it
referred to as "black" simply because it formed on pavement.  This
leads to the conclusion that "real" black ice is indiginous only
to California.  Is it black because of the air through which it fell?

Any of you folks in the Lake Tahoe area still practicing your descents?

Frank Williams
frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Now that's a warranty!
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:46:35 GMT

jdu@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (john.d.unruh) writes:
>I broke a steel Tesch last summer.  It was not a crash.  The down tube
>broke.  The crack ran from near the bottom of the tube at the weld between
>John Unruh

Too bad Tesch went out of business.  I wanted to buy one of his 101 road
frames when I passed through California several years ago and found that
he was history.  Those were great bikes.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
From: dodd@mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu (Lawrence R. Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: I did a good thing today
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:26:16
Organization: Dept of Chemical Engineering, Polytechnic Univ, NY, USA
Distribution: na
	<1993Jan7.023115.27600@slc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: marcs@slc.com's message of 7 Jan 93 02:31:15 GMT


>>>>> "Marc" == Marc San Soucie <marcs@slc.com> writes:

> Around a corner comes a BIG pick-up it swerves across the line
> right at the cyclist and then back across the yellow line.
> ...
> This fellow was
> smart enoughto be doing all of this in a COMPANY TRUCK!

  Marc>   Spread the word to local bike clubs.

I agree, you should _definitely_ let other bicyclist know about it.
From: vest@novavax.UUCP (Steven Vest)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Need to read : Are you an idiot?
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:10:17 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL


On the topic of riders riding in busy traffic:
Just a note:

     I too am a rider, though I ride a bit more infrequently than I
should.  But I'm amazed at the problems riders will cause by riding
in situations where they either clearly have no busines or have
obvious alternatives.  I live near the famous A1A in South Florida.
This is a very beautiful seaside road that gives some incredible 
ocean views.  But it is also a VERY narrow (mostly) two lane road
that passes through one of the most densly populated commercial
areas in the state.  Every single day it is packed with tourists
residents and the elderly retirees in their Klingon Battle Cruisers.
It is also blessed with a bike path that runs smoothly along it's
route (at least through Boca Raton).  Yet every time I drive A1A,
I see cyclists (serious cyclists by the quality of their equipment)
riding down the road instead of using the bike path!  This is the
road that during most of the Winter snail crawl near bumper to
bumper traffic can be the norm.  It is also important to realize
that an elderly snowbird WILL NOT PASS a cyclist unless they can 
have at least an acre of clearance in every direction.  Needless
to say cyclists cause backups for miles.  Is there really some
good reason why serious cyclists would not use the bike path 
that is invisible to the ordinary person?

Just wondering


-- 
========================== vest@novavax.nova.edu =============================
= Steven Vest: Electronic Reference Librarian: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL  =
=      Anything you see by me is just MY opinion.  Don't blame Nova.         =
=================Life is strange. Yeah, but compared to what?================= 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
Subject: Re: I did a good thing today
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:23:09 GMT

In article <C091p7.1r9@csn.org> alexm@teal.csn.org (Alex Matthews) writes:
>
>Has anyone else had this problem with oncoming cars forcing you out of
>your lane?  It never happened to me in fifteen years of riding, and this
>was the third such incident in the past year.  Because all the cars 
>involved were yuppies commuting through rural areas from new bedroom
>communities, I suspect it may be more common in this area than it ever
>was.  Has anyone else had this happen and not reported it?  

This has happened to me at least once in just about every state I've ridden
in, urban or rural. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the passer (rhymes with
BASTARD!) sees you in the oncoming lane because it all happens so fast. If he
does see you, it's very hard to imagine what he must be thinking that would
make him carry out such a maneuver.

I've never reported it, but now that you mention it, maybe I will from now on.

>  Pretty soon I'm going to start throwing water bottles through windshields.

On one of the tours I went on, we carried around tennis balls for this purpose.
But in most cases, it's best to keep your hands on the bars and do some serious
evading.

-Matt
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: I did a good thing today
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:30:00 +0000


> 
> Now insert your flames about how I'm a "criminal-in-waiting",no better than
> he is, and "that's not what cycling's about" here_________________________.
> 
> 

If you do do it ... buy an old scrap bike from a breakers and leave
it on his front seat as a parting gift

Only joking guys :)

Aurelio 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: mfaison@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Michele Faison)
Subject: Commemorating French Inventor of Bike??
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 18:15:37 GMT

Prior to the holidays, I read a post in several of these
newsgroups concerning commemoration of the 150th birthday of
the French citizen who invented the bicycle but who died in the
US.  I think there was a group raising money for a plaque and a
ceremony or something.  Unfortunately, I managed to discard the
details...address &/or phone number...during my
holiday-inspired office cleanup.  

Would really appreciate it if someone would forward the note to
me or repost the details.

Thanks.

Michele Faison

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Tthhppuuuttt Ack)
Subject: Re: How do you deal with Black Ice?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:13:38 GMT

As other people have correctly surmised.  White ice is the typical pond or
arena ice that has air pockets in it to lend the color.  Black ice is a very
thin layer of ice on the typically black road surface.  The very thin layer
means that studs can not grip on the ice very well.  Due to the low thermal
mass it is also very easy to melt the surface layer and have that wonderful
water on ice phenomena which is very slippery.  We have a hill just south
of town that seems to get black ice from the air's humidity (ie cold fog
bank).  The cars come over the hill, don't see the ice bacause its black and
then end up playing bumper cars.

In article <4310014@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>everyday phenomena.  We no longer have rain but a storm system
>moving into the state, we don't have rain showers but intermittent
>shower activity, and we don't have icy roads but widespread
  May I point you to Rick Greens weather report comedy skit?  Just like
  those wonderful weather maps it seems that the "weather people" are out
  to prove their "obivous" training and superiority.

>You can go out with crampons on your shoes but then
>you cant walk worth a damn and you can put on tire chains or spike
>tires but you wont be able to go around any dry corners at a
>reasonable speed and the rolling resistance is insultingly high.  A
  I don't like those implications.  What if I like high rolling resistance
  and the hum of studs?  Rolling resistance is vanishingly small anyway and
  so when you multiply that small number by a factor or 5 or so it still does
  not matter ;-)
  But studs or chains will not help you that much on very thin ice sheets.
  Even under the best of times studs give you a bit more traction due to their
  biting into the ice.  But it is not that much.  Most of the improvement is
  in the mind-set of the rider.  You can't corner as fast onstuds since they
  slide on pavement (and you do slide a bit during the normal commute) so you
  tend to be riding more conservatively.  However, I do like to have fun on
  white ice by locking the rear wheel or spinning it and sliding the bike.
  With studs you can control a spinning tire.  Most of the time if you loose
  traction with the front you are still going to end up sideways but some of
  the time you can pull out of it.
  When I am commuting with my studs on I am usually in a 42 - {21 or 24}. I
  ride a gear higher in the summer with my slicks.  The extra rolling
  resistance pales next to the amount of energy needed to plow thru slush,
  and snow (even 1/4").
    - Eric