From: philip@utstat.toronto.edu (Philip McDunnough)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 vs 486 ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:29:03 GMT
Distribution: world, public
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics

In article <1993Jan26.145043.15046@tdb.uu.se> m92mmy@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Myrberg) writes:

[ ]
>
>>People are going off the deep end in this group. I use Mac's a lot, as well
>>as other computers. I don't "detest" Windows and since when have all the
>>Knuth's of the world surfaced in this group to call the Mac and Windows'
>>desktop metaphors "stupid".
>
>Ok, I'll switch my glossary-file. I think Windows and the MAC GUI are
>very poor compared to Intuition. And now I'm speaking as a user.
>
>"..since when have all the.. ..to call the Mac and Windows' desktop metaphors "stupid.. "
>
>Since the day MS released Windows and Apple started to pester the world with
>their sad excuse for a GUI. You're not saying that they are smart are you ?

The words "stupid" and "smart" are not applicable to the point at hand. Both
Windows and the Finder are attempts at addressing the problem of the 
desktop metaphor. Noone said either was perfect. Many obviously don't like
their respective approaches. They happen to be in a very small minority 
though. I'd certainly agree that noone has come up with an ideal, or even
close to ideal solution and that goes for the Amiga.
>
>>Also the word "hate" is simply inappropriate.
>>The only effect messages like these is  having is in  conveying
>>the impression of Amiga users as a bunch of immature brats.
>
>So what's the appropriate word, dislike ?  Feeling better now, hmm ?

All I'm feeling is that you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.
>
>If there are people out there stupid enough to judge Amiga-users
>by what they think of various GUI:s then I really feel sad about THEM.

It's not that. The Amiga is a fine computer and certainly people have every
right to criticize Windows, Finder, Presentation Manager, etc...It's the
manner in which it's done that counts. Perhaps the Internet should really
reconsider who gets access to it. It's not at all clear to me that anything
is solved by the use of inappropriate language, and that seems to be the
norm here.
>
>>It might be a good idea for those people who want to see the Amiga thrive in
>>homes to give families a good reason for owning one. I can't think of one.
>
>I certainly can think of one,it's useful to know the absolute basics of computing,
>as computers are the most flexible of todays tools. "educational software" isn't everything.

Then you really haven't got a clue. If you tried selling me an Amiga with that 
line you'd get 10 seconds of my time. Younger children need not know about
the basics of computing, whatever they are. They are far better off  
concentrating on academic work and using some of the fine educational
programs that are available (on other platforms).
>
>Oh, and you really get to see what really happens when you use a MAC, eh ?

Irrelevant. See above. Even I don't care about that anymore, and I suspect
most of the world doesn't either. 
>
>If I had got a MAC instead of an Amiga, then I'd probably know absolutely nothing about disks,
>now if you have an Amiga and insert a non-AmigaDOS disk you get a funny
>message saying "..checksumm error.." and various others.

Big deal. Do you call that learning about anything important? 
>
>Makes you wanna know what it really means, doesn't it ?

Nope.
>
>It's nothing like the MAC "Keep user safe and stupid"-policy,
>"bogus disk inserted, do you want to format etc".
>You could as well buy your kid a stupid console, what a sad kid that would be.

The Mac approach is more appropriate for younger children and even 98% of the
population. The days of hacking are over. I for one don't care which cpu
is used, what the OS is, etc...as long as it runs the software I want it do 
and in a way I want it do. In particular, anything that hides i/o operations
is fine with me. That, in my opinion, is the way it should be.
>
>
>"I think therefor I Amiga"    -says it all, and the reversed is most true.
>
>Seriously, your article says nothing.

Then why bother replying?
 
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy