From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:16:43 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> >    Ah, ok, lets talk about numbers for a second here then. For the
> >month of March alt.manga had an estimated readership 12000, the % of
> >sites that get the group was 47, the total number of articles posted to
> >the group was 427, the size of said articles in Mbytes was 993.3 and the
> >group ranks 927 based of readership percentage. Now for rec.arts.comics,
> >the same numbers are: 48000, 78%, 2508 articles, 4416.0 Mbytes, rank
> >172. Now it doesn't take a statistician (although I am one just incase
> >the need arises ;) it is clear to see that alt.manga for all its recent
> >"growth" is nowhere near the size of rec.arts.comics.

>With 47 sites, it's amazing that it can manage 100 articles a week (though
>there's more than that now).  What will it be like when it has proper
>propagation?  The original mailing list had 17 people on it.

    Not 47 sites. 47% of the total number of UseNert sites receive
alt.manga as one of the possible groups that can be read.

>(BTW, Brian Reid's statistics are estimates, and could be as far as
>1 or 2 orders of magnitude off for low-traffic groups.  He acknowledges
>this in his accompanying articles; have you read them?)

    If you look at the second line, you will clearly see the word
estimated. BTW I doubt that he is off by too much when I look at the
traffic through alt.manga for the last week or so...

> >And with barely
> >over 100 articles per week, why are you even thinking about splitting
> >alt.manga?

>Wrong. Never said I was;  others on the group have talked about it,
>though.

    Excuse my usage of the pronoun. I should have said, why are people
even thinking about splitting alt.manga.

> >Rec.arts.comics averaged better than 80 articles per day, and
> >we haven't been able to split it for a number of years.

>If you're using the kind of "logic" that is infesting this
>discussion, it ain't hard to see why.

    Either keep your insults to yourself, or come up with better ones
that would be worth my time responding to.

> >    Undesireable to whom.
>              ^
>The group readers, obviously.  Do you wanna type "rec.arts.comics.manga"
>every time you post or change newsgroups?  What about if you want to
>create subgroups?  Why should you be hammered with "manga are just a
>subset of comics" every time?

    If you have an efficient news reader than this really isn't a
problem. Besides, I don't see what the problem is with typeing
rec.arts.comics.manga, especially since everyone who is vocal enough has
gotten enough practice in this discussion. ;-> I am not hammering anyone
with anything, and I have never said that manga are a subset of comics.
WHat I have said is that manga are comics, and should be part of the
UseNet comics hierarchy. This happens to be called rec.arts.comics.*,
but that name in and of itself is unimportant except for the fact that
it was the first name chosen way back during the Great Net Reorg (tm).

>Of course, if you won't be reading the newsgroup, these issues aren't
>important.

    I, however, will probably be reading the group, if it gets created.

>Nobody has still explained why rec.arts.comics.manga is "better".

    Well, that depends on how you look at things. Many of the people
arguing for r.a.c.manga are doing so because they feel that the
appropriate place in the namespace hierarchy of rec.arts.* for a
manga-based discussion group is the sub-hierarchy rec.arts.comics.*. And
since manags are comic books, this seems to be a very logical conclusion
to reach. If you don't like that explanation, then kindly explain to us
how you can see manga as being something other than comic books.

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