From: norrdahl@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Antti.
Date: 8 Sep 92 08:47:17 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

>	Norrdahl: LM 1991 ALA ARV pop....

  Norrdahl: that's me. The paper is not representative: its only
  intention was to draw Finnish bird watchers attention to rapidly
  decreasing numbers of skylarks in Finland. Serious papers I submit
  to other journals.

>		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint

 Sigh! This is not the first time when somebody believes he knows what 
 I think/believe without asking me... Well, I should be flattered:
 although still in the beginning of my career, Antti seems to classify
 me among great scientists  ;-)

 What I think/believe, is probably uninteresting. But, as Antti
 mentioned my name, I guess I have to tell something about it.

 I'm a believer: it means that I not only believe there is a God,
 I also believe what He has said. I believe we can find the truth
 about God and His will from the Bible. I believe that we are
 created by God as the Bible tells. But how exactly He created us
 is something I don't know. The words of Genesis ("...let the earth
 bring forth...and the earth brought forth...") leave space for
 different hypotheses.

 So, you can call me a creationist. But I also think there is fairly
 convincing evidence for evolution happening today. And for the old 
 age of our planet. And all evidence seems to point out that there 
 has been life on this planet for a long period. Although fossil
 evidence is anything but complete (and many times misinterpreted),
 fossils are indicating that evolution is not only a present
 phenomenon.

 Bible is not written to be used as a science book for biology
 students. The main concern of Bible is not in technical details
 but in salvation. As John puts it: "But these are written that you
 may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that
 believing you may have life in his name". More important than the
 past is the present: do I live with the Lord today? Does He create
 new in my life today?

 As an animal ecologist working (almost) daily with evolutionary
 problems, I know evolutionary theory quite well. And as a believer
 I know the way creationists are thinking and interpreting Bible.
 Therefore, I can understand both those arguing against evolution
 and those arguing against creationists. And I have to say: after
 following discussion for years, I'm disappointed. Most creationists
 attending discussion don't even know what evolution is. And those
 attacking creationists rarely know much about creationism, Bible etc.

 I would say there are two main problems in this discussion. First,
 same words are used on both sides but with different meanings. This
 leads to much confusion. Second, objections are taken on too personal
 level. When discussion turns to flaiming, nothing is gained.

 How to improve the situation?  At least we should try to find out
 what the other is meaning before we attack his views. And maybe it
 would be wise to sleep overnight before answering an irritating
 post.

 I won't participate in flame-wars. But with those interested in truth
 I'm always ready to discuss - publicly or privately.

                                                    Kai Norrdahl
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 (-:  Kai.Norrdahl@Helsinki.fi ; Dept Zoology ; Univ Helsinki  :-)
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Newsgroups: talk.origins