HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Europeans Stunk
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:45:25 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1992Jul29.080026.20184@leland.Stanford.EDU> sidirop@leland.Stanford.EDU (stefanos sidiropoulos) writes:

>KELLY@SUVM.BITNET with her usual academic-my-butt style writes:

>> P.S. By using the title 'Europeans Stunk,' I do not mean to imply that
>> they do not stink now.  In any case, however, I am sure they bathe more

>I noticed that you post from a "western" site, right ? Does it stink there,
>and if it does why dont you go back to your Turkiye where everything is
>neat and clean ?


That the West is techologicly superior does not mean that they
have always been more hygenic. In fact, the working class 
Europeans, especially in northern Europe and its American
equivalent, are still terribly unaware of basic rules of hygene.
The upper classes may be cleaner.  Because the Islamic civilization
was not a class based society, and because the religion ordered
to wash frequently, it is impossible to disagree with the early
travellers Nejat quoted, even today. We can also add the fact that
a Muslim may find a European smelly because we cannot stand the smell
of pork in general. If President Bush visits the worst mountain
village up in eastern Turkey, he may still be considered uncivilized
by the poor and ignorant villagers, because of his toilet habits.

I think the Greeks should not be angry at these words because if
I am not mistaken, food and expressions are not the only legacy of
Ottomans, and I hear that the "Turkish toilets", washing, and
other hygenic rules are partly still in effect in Greece.


>Dont worry: Every stinky European and Greek on that net knows that digression 
>is a usual habit of the employees of 'Non Turkish Then It Sucks Inc'.

Actually the poster did not quote from Turks but other Islamic
travellers. 

>BE AWARE CIVILIZATION:

>'KELLY the historian' joins 'Mutlu the great' in his crusade:
>They will prove that the roots of modern civilization were in Turkey, 

This is not something to prove. Turkey has been the cradle of
many civilizations that both gave birth to western and eastern
cultures since the beginning of known history. 

>Everybody else was uncivilized, and massacred some Muslims and Jews 
>occasionally, just for fun. And (oh horror): THEY STUNK and THEY STILL STINK!!

The massacre of the Muslims and Jews were routine in Europe. I think
no body can argue about that. Only fifty years ago millions of Jews 
and other settlers of Europe were massacred; the 
populations and governments either approved or ignored. Today, while
you are reading this line mant Bosnians are being killed or driven away
from home. 40,000 people are massacred and 2 million moved from home
in the heart of Europe, just because they are Moslems. 

Europe has been the cradle of wars, massacres and intolerance,
and this does not seem to have changed. 

Kutluk
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8035 soc.culture.soviet:6349
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Cossacks in the Ukraine
Keywords: Bits and Pieces of Info
Date: 27 Jul 92 05:29:56 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Some bits of info on population:

The Cossacks, by Philip Longworth, Holt, Rinehart, Winston.

p.86

"Early in June 1641 seventy galleys and nearly a hundred smaller
ships bore in towards Azov. The fleet carried the army
of Sultan Ibrahim I, a force, which the Cossacks, with heroic
exaggeration, estimated at over 250,000 men. Most probably it
was no larger than 30,000; but still enough to outnumber the
Cossacks six to one.

p. 157

 Now the jubilant Cossacks composed  a letter in reply..

	"Thou Turkish Devil", the letter ran, "Brother and
	Companian of Lucifer himself! Who dares to call himself
	Lord of Christians but is not! Babylonian cook! Brewer	
	of Jerusalem! Goat-keeper of the herds of Alexandria!
	Swineherd of Great and Lesser Egypt! Armenian sow and
	Tatar Goat! Insolent Unbeliever! The Devil take you! We
	Cossacks refuse every demand and petition you to make
	us now or which you may in future invent.

Though apocryphal, the letter embodied something of..."


[Mine: The letter seems to be a myth.]



......the Kievans never seemed to have gone far in colonising the 
steppe and Plano Carpini(Hakluyt's Voyages) shows the area south
and east of Kiev  to have been such a wilderness in the thirteenth
century that few settlers, if any, could have survived in it. Recent
estimates of the midsixteenth century population of the Ukraine
vary from 34,000 (Baronovich, Naseleniye Predstepnoi Ukrainy v XVI v, 1950
pp. 198ff.) to a few hundred thousands (Stokl, op.cit p. 150). And the
population influx during the preceding decades suggests an 
infinitesimal fifteenth-cetury population.


p. 354.
A government survey counted 62,949 rank and file Cossacks, 1,898 Cossack
elders or officers and gentry, and 62,454 peasants in
the Ukraine in 1654 (Akty Yuzhno-Zapadnoi Rossii, VOl. IX, No. 5).
Assuming these to represent heads of households and the average
houshold unit to consist of six persons one arrives at a total of 
300-400,000 Ukrainian MALES. Osipov estimates 300,000 (op.cit p. 244) but
there is insufficient demographic data to hazard any firm estimate. 
What is certain is that the number of claimants always exceeded
the number provided for in any registration. 

		---------------

[note: the MALES (in uppercase above) seems to be typo. It seems to
me that it should read 'persons' since the number of 'peasants' is given 
as 62,454.]
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: ertas@athena.mit.edu (Mehmet D Ertas)
Subject: Greko-Romende 1 altin 1 gumus Turkiye'nin (Was: haberler / news)
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish 
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:50:43 GMT

In article <9207301825.AA22865@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU>, trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh) writes:
|> FORWARDED BY TRH@mcimail.com
|>                      TURKISH CULTURAL PROGRAM NEWS
|>                          Saturdays at 5:00 PM
|>                       KUSF FM 90.3, SAN FRANCISCO
|>                     e-mail address TRH@mcimail.com
|> 
|>                              Milliyet
|> 
|> Thu Jul 30, 1992  2:06 am  EST
|> 

|>      Olimpiyat haberleri: Grekoromende iki gurescimiz final icin
|> guresecek. 62 kilo gurescimiz Akif Pirim, sabah seansinda
|> Bulgar'i 2-1, aksam seansinda Macar'i 7-3 yenerek gumusu
|> garantiledi. Bu aksam altin madalya icin BDT(Bagimsiz Devletler
|> Toplulugu)'lu guresci ile kapisma seansini elde etti. Bu sonucla
|> Akif Pirim 28 yil sonra grekoromende olimpiyatlardan madalya
|> getirecek ilk gurescimiz olacak. 90 kiloda Hakki Basar bugun
|> ABD'liyi ye nerse finale yukselecek. Barcelona'da altin madalya
|> ile halterde sesimizi ilk kez duyuran Naim Suleymanoglu'na
|> yabanci basinda buyuk ilgi gosterdi. Fransa' nin unlu spor
|> gazetesi L'Equipe, Naim icin Yine en buyuk diye baslik kullandi.

Dunku karsilasmalar sonunda Akif Pirim altin, Hakki Basar da gumus madalya
kazandilar. Almanya adina guresen Remzi ???  de gumus aldi.
Turkiye 2 altin 1 gumusle madalya siralamasinda oldukca iyi bir yerde.
Eger serbest guresciler de iyi gures cikarirlarsa son yillarin en
basarili olimpiyati olabilir bu. Bundan once Greko-Romen'de aldigimiz
son altin hangi yilda, bilen var mi?

Iyi gunler,

Deniz Ertas
From: wknowling@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: history of baths and bathing (turkish)
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:14:16 GMT
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada

I am doing research on bathing and the history of baths, saunas, turkish 
baths, medicinal baths, etc. But I have found that there is almost no 
information on this subject area. If anyone has a reference or even misc. 
information about baths, historical events that happened in a bath I would 
appreciate hearing about it through E-mail or in this newsgroup.

Thanks
Ron Knowling
History, Memorial University, St John's, NF, Canada.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8043 talk.politics.mideast:17224 talk.politics.soviet:6395 soc.culture.greek:6823 soc.culture.europe:6634 soc.history:6702
From: tarik@argonus.cum.edu (Tarik Savaskan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: test
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:03:50 GMT

this is a test,sorry
tarik
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8039 talk.politics.mideast:17220 talk.politics.soviet:6391 soc.culture.greek:6819 soc.culture.europe:6630 soc.rights.human:2686
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human
Subject: The ASALA/SDPA/ARF Massacred 'Gunduz' And 'Ariyak:' Armenian Barbarism.
Date: 26 Jul 92 02:21:19 GMT





<1992Jul251345.TJ23100>

>All this makes me depressed and disappointed . When I think that JERKS like 
>you, 

A typical criminal. Let's face it, if the words don't get into your noggin 
in the first place, there's no hope. 

        Remembering 

       Orhan Gunduz

on his 9th Anniversary of Brutal
Assassination by Armenian Terrorists.

TACS (The Turkish American Cultural Society of
New England) will hold a memorial service for the
Honorary Counsel General of Turkey to Boston, late
Orhan Gunduz.

Cemetery. Time: 10:30 AM

TACS invites everybody, especially those families who have 
lost their closest ones during the Turkish Genocide, to come 
for the memorial service.

Source:	Feigl, Eric: "A Myth of Terror: Armenian Extremism, its causes 
	and its historical context", 1986, pp. 124-138

	Armenian Terrorism - A Chronological Run-down
	=============================================

   	December 17, 1980 - Sydney
	Two terrorists assassinate Sarik Ariyak, the Turkish consul general,
	and his bodyguard, Engin Sever. JCAG claims responsibility.


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8079 talk.politics.mideast:17300 talk.politics.soviet:6426 soc.culture.greek:6862 soc.culture.europe:6661 soc.history:6741
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: 'Tsa*'s Devotion To 'Library' Is Worshipful: The Turkish Genocide.
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:17:28 GMT





<1548u7INN823@agate.berkeley.edu>
tsatsaro@emily4.Berkeley.EDU (Konstantinos Tsatsaronis)

>BTW the faithful readers of the list must be content to learn that 
>Mutlu was fifth in the combined classification for one of the 
>heavy weightlifting categories.  There is no joke here, read Mondays
>paper.  I guess that all this trips back and forth the library 
>carrying volumes of reffernces really paid off!!!!!!

You've noticed. Your devotion to 'library' is worshipful. What
I really want from 'volumes of references' is not an image but
a feeling, 'Tsa*.' Fair enough?


Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 24," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer 
        No: 3, File No: 527, Section No: 2056, Contents No: 35.
        (To the Office of the Supreme Commander of the Ottoman Army - 
        Commander of the 9th Army Sevki)

"Armenians surrounded the Islamic village of Hosrov in Armenia,
 13 kilometers away from the border on the night of 20/21 October,
 fought until the night of 21 October, massacred the Muslim 
 population, and pillaged the houses."


        "Document No: 45," Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer 
        No: 3, File No: 525, Section No: 2046, Contents No: 6-2, 6-3.
        (The coded message No: 3804 from the 3rd Army to the Supreme 
        Command - Commander 3rd Army, Vehip)

"The headquarters of the 1st Caucasian Army Corps and of the 4th
 Turkestan Division have moved on 26.1 from Erzincan to Erzurum.
 Some 150 Russian soldiers remained in Erzincan to guard certain
 depots and stores which have not yet been transferred to Erzurum.
 Some 1000 Armenian, volunteers old and young, in uniforms or in
 civilian have been observed in Erzincan. They are led by Murat,
 one of Dashnak leaders.

 Three mountain artillery guns were seen in the Church square in 
 Erzincan. The Moslem population is being secretly murdered by
 Armenians while plundering and rape cases are widespread. Armenians
 are also spreading information to the effect that very soon 20,000
 infantry volunteers as well as banknotes printed on behalf of the
 Armenian Government will soon reach Erzincan. 

 An Armenian gang, raided the Koska Moslem village some three Kms
 south-west of Ardase, burning the houses, plundering their properties
 and raping women. Inhabitants of Zekginc village 18 Kms south-east 
 of Erzincan suffered similar Armenian raids."

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
From: v095qhyg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Constantin Orfanos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Olimpiyat
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bs3tM5.KEp@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) writes...
>Please keep postings in Turkish in the appropriate groups.
>This is soc.culture.greek NOT soc.culture.turkish
>-- 
>Constantinos Varnavas
>University of Illinois


     I agree with this 110 percent!!!!!!  The only reason for a posting like
 that is to hide something from us.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:7967 talk.politics.mideast:17084 talk.politics.soviet:6332 soc.culture.greek:6738 soc.culture.europe:6574 soc.history:6621
From: hkarazin@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Turk)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Olympics, Opening Ceremony, and Dirty Tricks
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:11:30 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines


	It is the opening day of 25 th Olympics in Barcelona and 
	I am watching the opening ceremony. While I am watching it
	sometimes I hear some countries that I haven't been aware of
	in my life and blame myself by getting involved with the science
	alot but not geography. I know right after Tunisia, Turkish
	team will show up and I cannot wait to see them.
	Speakers of the stadium started playing turkish songs and 
	the anouncer said Turkiye but somehow - as if it was so urgent
	to show the crowd at that moment - NBC started showing them there
	in stead of our team. Was the director screwed up? Or was that
	one of the dirty trics that have been pulled for decades?
	I think some of the fellows in MSU noticed the same thing as
	well as alot of people including people from other nations
	here in Colorado. Personally I protested the behaviuor by 
	calling NBC head offices that night. 
	This is a shame for NBC, I think sports must be purified
	from all sorts of dirty politics.

	Hakan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8147 talk.politics.mideast:17430 talk.politics.soviet:6467 soc.culture.greek:6920 soc.culture.europe:6707 soc.history:6825
From: ankleand@mtl.mit.edu (Andrew Karanicolas)
Subject: Re: Mehmed II vs. Count Dracula (was: The Ottoman Empire Was More Like...)
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:56:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.094631.4726@cns.umist.ac.uk> ko@cns.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
>ankleand@mtl.mit.edu (Andrew Karanicolas) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul14.102257.29728@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>>TEXT DELETED
>>>
>>>	If not Ottomans were heavenly angels then you could not speek
>>>	your own language, you could not practice your own culture by now.
>>>	You were more Turk than any one else
>>>	Remember Greece under Ottoman rule for many centuries.
>
>>Who the hell are you to tell me about my own family history and
>>ethnic background.  You have no knowledge of it and you have no right
>>to speak so certain of yourself.  Fuck off.  If the Ottomans never
>>existed, Greece could only have benefited.


>
>I think one's own words is the best way to assess his family history
>and ethnic background.
>

Of course, certainly.  Naturally, you apply this in every case, or are
you simply being a devil's advocate?  Would you think the same way
about politicians, for instance?

Like, get real.

-- 
Andrew Karanicolas
MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratory
ankleand@mtl.mit.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8148 talk.politics.mideast:17431 talk.politics.soviet:6468 soc.culture.greek:6921 soc.culture.europe:6708 soc.rights.human:2766
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Sectarian Iran wants to destroy Pakistan and Azerbijan
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:33:53 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: ebrahim@ee.umanitoba.ca (Mohamad Ebrahimi)
>
>  You are right about the rivalry, but the conclusion of this problem, as
>is done by A. Jaber, is not correct. The bloody conflicts between these
>groups are NOT the result of this rivalry, instead they have much deeper
>roots in those societies than the history of Islamic Revolution in Iran.

	The bloody conflict between those people is not a result 
	of the rivalry itself. The bloody conflict is a result of
	that Iran is suuporting a faction and Saudi Arabia is suuporting
	another faction. 

	This has nothing to do with the rivalry of Iran and Saudi Arabia
	but rather it is planned by the Allies of Iran(???) and the
	allies of Saudi Arabia( USA and Europe) to create problems in
	Pakistan in order to weaken it destroy it.
	
	Remember Pakistan now is abandoned by the USA since it lost
	its strategic importance and Pakistan is the only Muslim Country
	with a nuclear potential after Iraq. Iraq is destroyed and now
	the turn is Pakistan. The easiest way to destroy Pakistan is to
	create this sectarian problems which are financed and supported
	by both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran is doing all of this while
	their Media talks about Islamic unity. TOO MUCH RHETORIC.

>On the other hand, if the rivalry between Iran and saudi Arabia
>is the reason for these conflicts, then there is a contradiction in your 
>above statement: Why this rivalry has not created conflicts like those of
>afghanistan and Pakistan in "Newly independent states north for Iran"?
>
>Mohammad   

	Please open your eyes my friend Mr or Dr Ibrahimi, Iran is
	supporting the Armenians over the Azeri Muslims in the bloody 
	conflict. Russia is giving the Armenians the Arms to attack the 
	Muslims in Azerbijan while Iran is giving Armenia the fuel and 
	the food to keep the war going. Iran is doing this to waeken
	Azerbijan. Yes there are Iranians who support Azerbijan but
	those are Azeri Iranians and not the Khomeinist regime. Iran
	is supporting Azerbijan only by RHETORIC while Iran is helping
	the Armenian war machine to keep running.

A Jaber
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:7965 talk.politics.mideast:17082 talk.politics.soviet:6331 soc.culture.greek:6736 soc.culture.europe:6572 soc.rights.human:2635 soc.culture.iranian:6314
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Armenian Genocide Of Azeris Shock Karabag: Armenian Barbarism.
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:52:46 GMT





           M A S S A C R E  I N  K H O J A L Y

Hostilities between  Armenia and Azerbaijan boil  over after some
200 civilians are slaughtered in a disputed enclave

While the details are argued, this much is  plain: something grim
and unconscionable  happened in  the Azerbaijani town  of Khojaly
two weeks ago.  So far, some 200 dead Azerbaijanis,  many of them
mutilated, have  been transported out  of the town  tucked inside
the Armenian-dominated enclave of  Nagorno-Karabakh for burial in
neighboring  Azerbaijan.  The  total   number  of  deaths  -  the
Azerbaijanis claim 1,324 civilians have been slaughtered, most of
them women and children - is unknown. But the explanation offered
by the  attacking Armenians,  who insist  that no  innocents were
deliberately killed, is hardly convincing.

The assault represents an  alarming escalation in the hostilities
that are rapidly pushing  Christian Armenia and Muslim Azerbaijan
toward all-out  war. With  increasing belligerence over  the past
four  years, the  two  republics have  pressed their  territorial
claims to Nagorno-Karabakh, a  4,400-sq.-km piece of turf located
within Azerbaijan's boundaries but home mainly Armenians.

Videotapes  circulated  by  the Azerbaijanis  include  images  of
defaced civilians, some of them scalped, others shot in the head.
Armenians claim the footage is fake. They insist that they left a
corridor open for civilians to flee Khojaly, but that Azerbaijani
soldiers led  a group 200 civilians  into harm's way. The  use of
surface-to-air missiles, artillery rockets  and armor proves that
both sides  are equipped with state-of-the-art  weapons that were
bequeathed  by,  sold by  or  stolen  from disintegrating  Soviet
units.

Although  Nagorno-Karabakh  is  small, the  implications  of  the
violence  are large.  Officials from  other republics  regard the
outcome  as a  test for  the  future prospects  of the  patchwork
Commonwealth   of  Independent   States.  Nursultan   Nazarbayev,
President  of Kazakhstan,  warns  that the  burgeoning clash  may
"create  a precedent  for uncontrolled  development of  conflicts
within  the C.I.S."  Late  last week  Azerbaijani President  Ayaz
Muttalibov resigned under heated criticism that he had mishandled
the  Khojaly crisis.  But the  dispute with  Armenia is  far from
settled.

By Jill SMOLOWE

-Reported by Yuri ZARAKHOVICH/Moscow

SOURCE: TIME March 16, 1992


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8006 soc.culture.greek:6773
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: What is the origin of the name Istanbul?
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:11:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <3598@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>
>Reading an old English classics history book today I came across the
>variation "Stamboul". Any one any comments on how this might have
>arisen?

Kathareusa Greek: Eis tiv poliv.
Dimotiki Greek:      Stiv poli.

Kathareusa Greek evolved from koini Greek in the 5th century. Dimotiki is
newer.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history