HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: SO's group (was Re: Hints for SO's (Spoiler Warning))
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:38:07 GMT

zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore) writes:

>In article 8250@q7.tessi.com, joey@q7.tessi.com (Joe Pruett) writes:
>>i'm happy to see some of the so's coming out of the woodwork.  i've
>>been lurking around for more than a year, and i think that maybe it
>>would be a good thing to create alt.sexual.abuse.partners or something
>>in that vein.  there are a lot of things i would like to talk to other
>>partners about, but i think they could cause quite a ruckus if
>>discussed in asar (spoilers or not).  what do you all think?

>There are SO's who have been abused. Hmmm...

they could certainly participate in both groups...

>when I first read this suggestion, I thought it would be a bad idea, but the 
>more I cogitate, the more I think it would be a good idea. I would prefer to 
>see it named something along the lines of alt.sexual.abuse.significant.others,
>or maybe alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.significant.others.

>There ARE issues that I, as a SO of a person recovering from abuse, would 
>not mind sharing that *I* think do not belong in a.s.a.r. 
>A.S.A.R.S.O would be for things like getting support for SO, rather than 
>for the people who were abused. There would probably be a lot of cross over 
>of subjects between the two groups, but I still think it would be a good idea.

>If we were to take the SO posts to another group, would the SO's stop posting
>supportive notes in A.S.A.R? I don't think we want this to happen.

i don't think they would do that.

>Other commnets?

i think it's a great idea, personally.  if i were a survivor's s.o., i'm sure
i'd appreciate having somewhere for me to talk about my issues.  i would
probably read it myself, to get a better understanding of what my sweetheart
has to put up with from me sometimes.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1005@twwells.com (Bones)
Subject: 3rd person
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:13:24 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


Hi poohbear,

I don't know the exact reasons you don't like people talking about you
in the 3rd person but I can relate to the emotions you are feeling.  I
spent so many years being treated as insignificant and incompetent and
I hated every bit of it.  I mentioned in an earlier post that every-
thing about me was picked apart and labeled as defective in some
manner.  Rather than becoming compulsively successful as some have
mentioned, I took everything good about me and hide it inside.  I had
to save myself from reminders that I wasn't good enough.  I even cen-
sored my speech so that I wouldn't hear the reminders [my mother's
voice in my head] that I was trying to sound like something I wasn't.
I can no longer live with everything trapped inside.  Trapped inside
makes it worse than an actual death.... therefore I have to begin
living in the outside.

I want you to know I have so much respect for the courage I hear in
your posts.  Your struggle speaks of your strengths....not of any
weakness.  I'll do my best not to ever speak of you in the 3rd person.
Please know that I have never lost touch with the real poohbear no
matter who is speaking.

wishing you well



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: Talking with my brother
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:24:26 GMT



     I talked with my brother Saturday about our childhood abuse.  I had
written him a letter several days ago to see if he would be open to it,
and he was.  In the letter, I mentioned some of the physical abuse, and
when we talked, he remembered our mom being pretty out of control and
physically violent.  He remembered that she would get the belt out and
whip us.  My memories of her physical abuse are pretty recent.  I had
remembered my father as being the main one to use the belt on us.  He
had no recollection of our dad using a belt, and painted him as a man
under the control of mom.  An unfortunate who didn't know enough to
leave her.  I can't say I'm surprised, as he was Dad's boy and I was
Mom's.  He remembers Dad in a good light as I initially remembered mom
as not being physically abusive.  Oh, well.  He said he believed what
I told him about mom.  I even told him about her attempts to kill me.
I'm not too sure how much he believed me, though.  Whether he was just
trying to be "appropriate" and supportive, or what.  Condescending is
what it felt like to me at times.  Oh, well.  I was in great denial to
begin with, so I can't really expect much from him.  He took the attitude
that nothing affected him, and seemed surprised that it affected me so
much.  Any time I talked about Dad's violence, he redirected the topic.
     I feel better for having told him, but he has little memory of our
childhood either.  He did leave home at the first opportunity, and stayed
out late at nights, so wasn't so exposed as I was.  Of his abuse that I
remembered and told him about, he didn't remember.  Seeing he didn't
seem able to hear about a lot of the physical abuse, I didn't mention
the sexual abuse I remember.  Much less all the *really* awful things
that happened.  I didn't want to push too hard.  Perhaps I've planted
a seed for him to think about.  I'm not sure if or when I'll talk with
him about it again.  But I think I will mention our grandfather's
raping me.  And plant another seed for him to ponder.  Part of me
wonders if it's right to do this, as he seems to be coping.  And part
of me worries about my new nephew, his new son.
     I got to meet him Saturday, too.  He was so cute.  He looked so
like my brother.  I feel torn about what kind of relationship I can
maintain with my brother.  I'll give it time, as he seems to be at
least open to talking.
     On a happy note, my wife and I picked up a dog from the pound for
adoption today.  We've both always wanted a dog, but never really
talked about it or let ourselves hope for one.  But we looked around
and fell in love with a 2-year old Rottweiler with a sweet disposition.
The folks at the pound were quite fond of him too, and held him well
past the average euthenasia date (sad thought) in hopes of adopting
him.  He seems to be settling in quite nicely and follows my wife around
everywhere.

     Take care all,
     Robert


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Just Questions w/answers
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:04:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.155613.12507@sei.cmu.edu> aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat) writes:
>> Where were you un-involved parents or adult protective figures? Did none of
>> us have them?
>
>	I get so angry thinking about the adults in my life. Most of them - 
>	including teachers - were more irrational than anyone I've met in
>	later life. I don't know why. And I don't know how I could be in a 
>	school system in which a star student and extrovert (I was a cool
>	little kid) becomes introverted, sick and stupid without anyone
>	responding. I would've talked if I could have found ANYBODY, and
>	probably saved myself a lot of pain.

I was a healthy kid before I went to kindergarten, and made it through
several years in later elementary school without missing a day of classes,
yet nobody thought it strange that I got _real_ sick in kindergarten.

After all, when they took out my tonsils I got better.  Of course, I
didn't have to finish kindergarten....  That seems to have been common
back in the 60's.

BTW, I have a quasi-memory fragment of telling a teacher and being
chided for telling those filthy lies about such a nice man.... (possibily
with a tint of fear).

The simple fact is, in the past people refused to believe children.
Period.  Even if you told, you would not have been believed.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: Re: nightmares
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:05:32 GMT

In article <9SEP199208173610@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>, aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:

>In article <Bu98G6.CDs@twwells.com>, anon-1201@twwells.com (Jasmyne) writes...

>>Speaking of, a friend of mine told me he wants me to call him if i ever
>>am real bad. i know people say this all the time. How often do they mean
>>it? I never call, even though i've promised on occasion.....i never want
>>to bother them (common theme?).
>
>I think it's a common theme.  Certainly it is for me.  I also don't want to 
>be a "bother".  I will "suck it up" and usually *not* call until I have no 
>choice.  Really I guess that's the worst thing I can do to myself and them, 
>since by that point I *need* someone to listen, and if they can't we're 
>both in a pickle.


Hmm... I have had people assure me that I should call if I need to...
One of my "best friends" had told me to call if I needed to, and he
knew that I would only call if I absolutely had to.  But several months
ago it became "inconvenient" for me to call, it would be "better if I
didn't call" and so of course I can't.  I've pretty much written that person
off as a fair-weather friend.  (Note:  I don't think I ever abused his offer
to call.  I think I also tried to not call until I had no choice.)

I've also recently experienced a couple of people indicate that they don't
want to talk to me when I'm feeling bad.  This has made me even more 
reluctant to turn to anyone or let anyone know when I'm feeling bad.

-kk

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: jdiamond@netcom.com (Joan M. Diamond)
Subject: Re: CHAPTER 3...
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:59:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


Well, at least we learned one thing, or I did.  Krikket (I hope I got that
right), and Poohbear are much healthier than Jeff is.  At least the two of you
aren't abusing people, as Jeff is.

Jeff, you must be hurting pretty badly to think a person's life is worth
so little.  Maybe yours isn't worth much, as you are trying so hard to show
us.  However, as a survivor of rape and a person who has had to recover from
abuse to myself and the murder of my child, I know that most people's lives
are worth a great deal.  When (and notice I didn't say if) Poohbear and
Krikket recover, they will each have so much to offer the rest of
society.  They will be able to offer, to those who will see, a view of
how truely wonderous and beautiful the world is.  And they will be
able to share with the world (or at least those near them) how truely
beautiful and wonderful they are.

Poohbear, forgive me, please, for using the second person while referring
to you.  I was trying to include you with Krikket.  You are already showing
me how strong and courageous you are, as is Krikket.  Please, don't either
of you pay any attention to this intruder from talk.bizarre.  He doesn't 
have enough maturity to realize that some groups are actually serious and do
good.  he thinks the whole things a joke because he can't bear to look at
the world with adult eyes.

Jeff, I hope you get some help, before you are faced with the choices in
front of Krikket and Poohbear.  With your attitude, people might not try
to reach out to you.


For everyone else, I recommend ignoring the incursions from the idiot groups
and just go on with our healing.  After all, we all know that people like
jeff exist, don't we?  Why be surprised or upset that they should violate
us here, when they have violated us in so many other places and ways.  he's
just another abuser to be overcome.

if he keeps up his abuse, a large number of angry letters to his sys admin
should take care of him.

Hugs.

Please hold on, Poohbear and Krikket.  You can contact me for hugs, words,
yelling, crying, whatever.  I'm here for you, both of you.  You won't be the
first suicidal person I have helped out.  I have a lot of experience.  And, I
have been in the hospital too.  I know a little of where you are, so I can
listen and be there for you.  I mean it.  I'm here if you need me.

Joan
jdiamond@netcom.com
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Hints for SO's (Spoiler Warning)
Date: 12 Sep 92 10:05:51 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <9209102333.AA19099@saturn.upl.com>, root@khijol.UUCP writes:
>X-ANON-Version: 0.4

>I am posting this anonymously to protect the privacy of my beloved
>survivor.
>
>I've been the SO of a survivor for some time, and I lurk on asar and
>occasionally email to people who ask questions about SO issues.
>Finally I had an opportunity to consolidate some of my thoughts; maybe
>this can start a thread that will eventually end up in the FAQ :-)

THANK YOU whoever wrote this!  I wish I had something like this earlier on in
my life!  It could have made a great difference to me, for I can be dense at
times, and this spells out everything I learned from my errors (as a SO to a
survivor)  Thank you!

+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Krikket              | krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us | I'll *LEGALLY* ordain   !
|a.k.a Doug Krick     | Team Star Charter Member   | anyone, no questions    !
|Data # 708/665-9732  | #include<std.disclaimers>  | asked for just $5!      !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| From the makers of "IBM Made Easy" is "Cray-2 Simulations On your VIC-20"  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: post
Date: 12 Sep 92 07:07:58 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4


anon-1222@twwells.com (raindrop) writes 
> 
>   Hi! I have been reading a.s.a.r. for awhile now. I have a problem that I hope

Hi raindrop, welcome

> some of you can help me with. I recently started therapy to help recover from
> my childhood trauma, and we are starting to delve into the scary things- it's
> very intense. My problem is my SO- he doesn't seem to realize that I need his
> help to recover, and he keeps doing things that drain my energy-it's almost
> like he's sabotaging me! I have told him what kind of emotional support I need
> from him, etc., and he keeps saying that he's going to help me, that he WANTS
> to help me, and so on, but he keeps doing those stupid things and he tells me
> that he doesn't know why!!! He says he doesn't want to do them, but why does
> he keep on doing them, then?

Well, I can't say for sure why anyone does anything.  However, how long have
you been asking that your SO not do these things?  You said "recently" you
started therapy-are you sure that your SO has had time to change the
behaviors that you have difficulty with?  Not knowing what the things are
some may take some time and more than one request...  Maybe some more patience
is required on your part. Do you see improvement on his part?  If not then
there may well be some difficulty ahead.  Are you giving HIM support when he
does the things that you need (even if you are not in shape to tell him when
you need the support, do you make the effort to let him know later that
what he did was important and that you noticed)?  If not then try this and
see if he remembers better.

>   What can i say to him? What can I do? Leaving him is not really an option,
> because he's actually a pretty good guy and I do love him, AND we are married
> and he is supporting me right now while i'm in school, and I have no place else
> to go.

Do you have a non-threatening way (preferably one that you agreed on beforehand)
to let him know when he is doing the things that you feel drain your energy?
It can be simple like a word or a phrase that is used when you REALLY need
his support.  Have you reviewed with him what (and I mean specifically, with
examples) it is that he has not gotten right quite yet?  Have you also been 
fair and told him what he IS doing RIGHT?  This is important you don't want
it to be one of those "you can only make mistakes" type conversations.

>   Please help me- you can post replies to the net or e-mail me through the APS.
> I'm getting really desperate.

Hope this helps.  If you need more suggestions just let me know.

Hugs if you want them.

>   Thanks,
>   Raindrop
> 

Taylor		khijol!twm@saturn.upl.com

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From: Laurie Mann
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Middlesex News Covers Sexual Abuse Case in Detail
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:25:59 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

The Middlesex News, published in Framingham (MA), is doing a detailed
report on the Mack Mitchell case.  It is a very painful read, but it
is quite accurate.  I highly recomend it, if you can stomach
it.

(Mack Mitchell is a Unitarian minister currently serving
3-4 years on a rape conviction.)

*  NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com * GEnie:  Laurie.Mann  *
**** Vote to can George and Dan! **  Vote for CHANGE in 1992!****
**********    Member of the cultural elite and PROUD!  **********
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: mcmorris@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (brandywine)
Subject: I have changed accounts
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:32:26 GMT


hi everyone, here I am posting again....
I wanted to say that I have changed accounts for ASAR
simply because my father is the SYSOP for my vet account
and I don't want to think abou thim looking at my account with
some of these things on it...
I can still get mail at the old address, but I would
prefer if you used this one

ehugs to all who want them
-brandywine




"and there's not enough room in this world for my pain... signals cross, and
love gets lost and time past makes it plain... for all my deamon spirits I 
need you the most... I'm inlove with your ghost." Ghost, The Indigo Girls
-- 
"and there's not enough room in this world for my pain... signals cross, and
love gets lost and time past makes it plain... for all my deamon spirits I 
need you the most... I'm inlove with your ghost." Ghost, The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: second try
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:25:59 GMT

anon-1201@twwells.com (Jasmyne) writes:

[ most of jasmyne's story deleted to save space ]

>I'm terrified of men. i know that i want to know that someone would hold
>me without wanting me to "perform" for them. But i don't think there is
>anyuone that safe out there. I hope that i'm wrong but everyday i think
>i'm more and more right.
>All men do want is sex from you. They don't care about much else.
>God i hope i'm wrong...i'm only 19 i shouldn't be angry like this..hate
>like this.

well, we're not all like that.  i admit, a lot of men are jerks or worse, but
not all of us.  i spend a lot of time with new female acquaintances convincing
them that i'm not like most other men.  it makes me mad that i have to do that
in order that they know they can trust me at all.  i shouldn't have to.
anyway, try not to get too into the mindset of "all men are pigs" because even
though it may almost be true, it's not *always* true, and there are guys out
there who don't want anything you don't want to give.  i wish they weren't so
evidently rare.

>i don't know what else.....i do but i'm not gonna write it...this is
>already too long. I'm sorry if i bothered anyone.

you've already told us a lot.  thank you.  you haven't bothered me in the
least.  

>Jasmyne
-- 
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|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1221@twwells.com (phoenix)
Subject: none
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:16:57 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


ANON-Name:  phoenix
ANON-Mail:  yes
ANON-Ping:  yes

Hi,

I've been kind of a lurker to a.s.a.r for a few months.  I have to say
that I think that you're all wonderful.  It's very encouraging to
see a supportive group for people who've survived something that is
as "secret" as sexual abuse.  I finally decided to post anonymously and 
use the nickname "phoenix" 'cause I'm trying to "rise from my own ashes."

A little about me - looking back on my childhood, I'd say that I was
abused by my mom from _way_ back...I'm not sure how much intercourse there
was but I distinctly remember a LOT of things like intimate body stroking.
It's the hardest thing to remember and to deal with because so much of my 
initial individual programming said that this was "just healthy touch that
all happy families like ours indulge in" and I feel that this has seriously
hampered my ability to distinguish "what is a HEALTHY relationship."  (BTW,
my father is an alcoholic and my mother a co-dependant; over the last
few years I've become very familiar with the terms survivor, etc.)

Right now I'm recently married and am trying to work lots of these things out 
with my wife.  It's really, really hard and I'm afraid of my marriage 
crumbling because I don't _know_ what a healthy relationship is.

In addition a piece of me feels that what happened to me isn't incest at all 
and I'm just kidding myself because after all I'm just nuts anyway.

I don't know.  A question to the group:  what constitutes incest?  Is it
just intercourse?  Or is there more to it than that like intimate stroking,
etc.?

Thanks,
Phoenix



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