HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Apple problems "Home computer"
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:24:37 GMT

 
> Maybe this A600 thing will give them some extra cash for real computers.  It
> is still hard to imagine many people buying a 68000 based home-computer in
> this day and age.
> 
> -- Gerald

	Depends on how much CBM intends to charge for it.   I've read two 
  rumors on the net, one is around $250 and the other is a little less then 
  the A500+ ( which I think was selling for $599 ).  Of course this is just
  from reading the net, so take it with a grain of salt.  Has CBM released 
  the A600 yet, and if so how much will it be??  It seems to me that if they
  can price it at $250, it will sell like hotcakes.

							G.Greene
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:00:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.002739.54402@cc.usu.edu> slvj6@cc.usu.edu writes:
>> 
>> Ha!  And you do?!  Really Jarkko, you did *just* what Nish did.  You posted
>> benchmarks which prove your point.  BTW, it's well known that HP's 040
>> machines do about twice as well on benchmarks as other 040 machines.  They
>> obviously found a way to optimize their compilers to fool the benchmarks.
>
>Gee, or possibly they just generate better code perhaps?
>Could it be that their compilers make everything run faster and not just
>benchmarks?
>

Not necessarily.  Benchmarks do lots of calculations just for the sake of
calculations; a compiler with good global optimization will just optimize
those calculations away into nothing.

BTW, the fact that HP's 040 machines tend to do exceptionally well on
benchmarks (only benchmarks) was mentioned in UNIX Review, in the same issue
where they found the A3000 to have pitiful UNIX performance.  Oops, I forgot
that the Amigoids here, in their wisdom, have totally discredited the whole
magazine due to that issue.

>
>Lets see... what companies use the 040?  Apple, HP, ???...  of the people that
>do use them, just who is more likely to invest more money on a better compiler?
>

I honestly don't know.

>
>The current Amiga compilers generate really poor code, and the Borland and
>Microsoft compilers generate pretty good code by comparison.
>I'm sure your happy to compare them.
>

Cut the sarcasm, OK?  How do you know that Borland or Microsoft produces
better code than Amiga compilers?

I think the best thing to do would be to use UNIX SVR4 and Gnu C on both
machines (with similar RAM) to see which produces faster results.  This would
give a reasonable overall CPU performance estimate.

>
>What your saying is that it's fair to compair a good compiler with a rotton one
>when doing benchmarks as long as it's in your favor, but it's annother matter
>when the the competition is better.  Then it's fooling the benchmarks.
>

I said no such thing.  Re-read my article.  And stop giving me BS about
"in my favor".  I'm not anti-Motorola or pro-Intel.  I just don't like BS
posted on the net, OK?

>
>Just who's fooling who?
>

You tell me.

>
>James
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:36:35 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Well, if the Intel-based machine cannot even hope to compete, then why does
>*my* 386 clone consistently perform better than a comparably equipped A3000?

How are they suitably equipped (i.e., what hardware does each system have)?
Curious.

-- Gerald
From: bleys@tronsbox.UUCP (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Apple problems "Home computer"
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:18:38 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Apr6.191733.712@maths.tcd.ie> mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers) writes:
>In article <3416@tronsbox.UUCP>, tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson) wrote:
>>	You know, I have been thinking about this a lot lately (what's
>>that smoke ?) and have decided that C='s non announce policy is
>>hurting more than it is helping.
>
>Does the name Osbourne mean anything to you? 
>
>Seriously though, suppose tomorrow C= were to announce the Amiga Plus line, say
>030/040 based, varying configuration. Say they came with (hypothetical) AA 
>32bit chipset giving 4 channel 16bit voice, 8bit hires and 24bit super HAM
>graphics. Now, imagine how many 'old' Amigas they'd sell in the interim...
>It was enough to sink Osbourne, it'd hurt C= badly.

I'd agree with you if it was 1989.  At that point, the basic design
was four years old and the Modern Age of Amigas was in its second year.
That's when WorkBench 1.4 was first talked about.

It's now 1992.  The basic design is seven years old, and the only
fundamental changes have been to allow the same old custom hardware access to
more ram and to use the newer CPU.  Every other change has been to software.
Very impressive software, but not impressive enough to justify using an 
obsolete machine to run it.

An announcement now might, possibly, stop some of us rats from jumping
ship.

-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@tronsbox.xei.com          *
 *                                                              *
           "Thought and affliction, passion, hell itself,
           She turns to favor and to prettiness."
                             Laertes (speaking of Ophelia)
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM is a game machine company
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:57:10 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

>In article <46465@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>>Actually, [the A3000T] has the same number of slots as the A3000.

In article <-5BL-?D@ais.org> cython@ais.org (Tim Devlin) writes:
>What??? same number of slots as the A3000??  The spec. sheet I saw said and
>in fact showed a picture, of the A3000T with 5 Zerro III slots, and 4 AT
>slots.  The A3000 only has 4 Zorro III slots and 2 AT slots.
>When did they take out the extra slots????????!!!!!

	I was wrong, sorry.  There are 5 Zorro slots, 4 PC slots, and
the usual video and CPU slots.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cseric@knuth.mtsu.edu (Mr. Eric Buckner)
Subject: UNIX for the Amiga
Summary: Where to find BSD sources for porting to Amiga
Keywords: Amiga, UNIX, BSD
Organization: Dept. of CS, Middle TN State Univ, Murfreesboro, TN
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:02:09 GMT


After reading several of the other comp.sys.COMPUTER I have noticed a
strong influx of BSD versions of UNIX for those platforms.  So what I
want to know is who is working on one for the Amiga.  If the reply is
no one, then shame on us.  UNIX is where it is at and it is where the
Amiga needs to be.  If anyone knows where I can get a complete source
listing of the BSD stuff I will happily work with someone on porting 
it to the Amiga.  Of course I don't want to do it alone, I would be
insane to want to to that.  If you have any information then please
E-Mail it to meand I will summarize when it comes in.

Thanks
Eric Buckner
Senior Programmer/Analyst
Ingram Periodicals, INC.

knuth!cseric   or cseric@knuth

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Floptical (was Re: Wild rumor...)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 07:42:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.043247.21168@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> hauer@roby.ecn.purdue.edu (Corey Hauer) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.172117.39421@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> 2frwreel@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>Hey, I'd be surprised if Commodore released anything at all!!!!
>>Oh sorry, let me qualify that...I mean anything that the Amiga
>>community desperately needs(ie. 68040 System, RTG, New Custom Chips,
>>High Density Floppy Drive, Floptical Drive, SCSI II controller, etc.
>>etc. etc.......)
>
>I read in Computer Shopper that C= is the only computer manufacturer currently
>shipping a machine with a floptical drive.  Which machine is this?  Or is
>CS plain wrong?

   They are just plain wrong.  CS is probably confused about reports a while
back from some sources that Commodore had licensed the floptical drives from
Insite.  But Commodore is currently not shipping any machines with the 
floptical drives.  

>
>-Corey

















Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala)
Subject: Hooray!
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 19:48:29 GMT

A Marc Barrett article with nothing against Commodore or
Amigas in it!  Will miracles never cease!  :-)

In article <1992Apr15.233951.429@mr.gov.bc.ca> rforster@mr.gov.bc.ca (Russ Forster) writes:
>	I'm looking for a utility that converts MACpaint images into IFF
>	images.  I've been playing with MACview off of Fish disk 35, but it
>	doesn't save images larger than 640x400 and several images I have
>	are larger than that.  If someone has a utility around I sure would
>	appreciate a copy of it (if it's pd of course :-)

   Find the Amiga port of the package called PBMPlus.  This is a collection
of filters for image processing and conversion.  Just pull out the two files
called 'macptopbm' and 'ppmtoilbm'.  With a shell that supports unnamed pipes
(like Csh), you would do something like the following to convert a file
from MacPaint to IFF:

csh:> macptopbm < picture.mac | ppmtoilbm > picture.iff

   Now, if only somebody would write a utility to convert MACDraw images to
IFF DR2D, I would be *REALLY* happy...

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: costin@cs.mcgill.ca (Costin RIZAN)
Subject: Re:  C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:00:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.020525.20486@nic.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>
>> It's shakeout time in the PC clone world.  The cheap clone companies that
>> can't live with the low margins will go out of business, and then the bottom
>> end prices will rise back to a more normal level.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.
>> 

	Even if your theory WAS true, when the prices start going up,
there will be other entrants in the market, which will make the 
prices go down again. So don't hold your breath. 
	By the way, what is a normal level? To me a normal level for
technology is starting out high and after a period of time bottoming.
Seems like it's exactly what the clone market is doing. Just because
you are used to getting ripped off by CBM it doesn't mean that it's
prices are 'normal'.
From: neptune@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (71075000)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Help! I need Amiga advice!
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:53:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz; Open Access Computing



Here's my problem:

August'90 I bought an Amiga 3000 through the educator's plan.
A couple months ago my Quantum 105meg Hard Drive started to give me problems.
The problem happens when I turn on my system from a cold boot.
The HD takes a bit longer to turn on though, which then my computer doesn't
recognize the hard drive as a device and since the system software is on the
HD, it doesn't goto workbench, but goes to the selection screen WB2.0/WB1.3
and the Hard Drive gadgets are shaded, not allowing me to select them. So 
then I have to turn the sys off and on again and only then will the HD act
normal.

The warranty on the A3000 is up but I called Quantum, and they said that they
have a two-year warranty on all their drives. So I sent it to them, but now
they are telling me that since the drive was sold to Commodore and not to me,
I will have to pay at least $175 to get the drive to act normal again.

My Options:
Sell it and buy a cheaper drive
Buy a cheaper drive to boot off of and live with the slow 100meg HD
Ask Commodore to fix it for free even though it's outta warranty
(it never hurts to ask)
or Live with turning off and on my sys until it works.

Can anyone tell me any other options?
Can anyone repair Hard Drives cheap?

I am really in dire straights here... someone has to have the answer.

Desparately,
Mike at Santa Cruz
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC Prices, Reality Check (was Re: switching to IBM)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 05:51:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Apr15.114529.29782@nic.unh.edu>

In article <1992Apr15.114529.29782@nic.unh.edu>
pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:

|  [...]
|  That's true, but to be fair I also think some of the people on the PC
|  side tend to quote only the absolute lowest prices from noname clone
|  dealers.  I try to stick with the more reputable mail-order houses
|  when doing comparisons.

Precisely.

That's why PS "SCSI" sucks dead bunnies through a straw.  Most PC "SCSI" cards
are just a few chips and have no intelligence.  [ Of course, one could get one
of the Adaptec 154x cards, but PC users are cheap shits who shop price and not
quality ]

PC computers suck.

This fact came home recently (in another newsgroup) when some DEC person claime
d
DEC's "Pathworks" was 100% VT100 compatible.

Sure (heavy sarcasm).  Wouldn't pass the Per Lindberg VT100 validation suite.
Yeah, DEC, cannot even emulate their own damn terminals.

Couldn't even do the double-high/-wide characters.  Why?  "Because it would
force us to go into graphics mode to draw the characters, and it would be too
slow."  Yeah, sure, on a '486.

Consider that Amiga programs such as VT100 and Handshake have no such problems,
even on an MC68000.

Intel: First With the Worst.

Now time for today's reality check:

	IBM/PC = Intel Bowel Movement/Piece of Crap
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: justin@graphlab.cc.uky.edu  (Justin Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:26:13 GMT
X-Bytes: 

David Morgenstern writes
> I think it's interesting to note that Apple is doing user testing
> on all features, including ones that we would just expect "everyone
> should get this.." Actually, the release of the latest Tuner is a
> good example of Mac philosophy -- it gives the user different ways
> of doing the same thing. The Installer script is supplied for one
> set of users (40%) and the rest can still drop the files on the
> System folder, which will also do the job. 

Not quite.. The Installer does a little more. It determines what you have and  
adjusts the installation accordingly. When it's updating printer drivers, it  
saves your printer selection so you don't have to go back and change it. Very  
minor, very trivial, but that's that. Besides, most users wouldn't know exactly  
where to put everything (lord forbid they actually have to LOOK at the README  
file! :)

--
*******************************************************************************
* "Imagine sky.. High above, in Caribbean Blue.." <sigh>                      *
* The University of Kentucky doesn't pay well enough to share my opinions.    *
*******************************************************************************
From: 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Macs and IBMs & why I love Amiga
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:19:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr12.181920.6169


	All I have to say, is not the techno-weenie (sorry guys-just a term of
endearment-not making fun of you) aspects, but just raw facts.
	Last Friday a Mac ate my disk.  I eventually got it out, but not after
the disk being damaged beyond repair.  My brother (dedicated macophile through
and through) defended this by saying that any computer would have done this in
the same situation.
	Well, he's wrong because that same day I tried it before using it on
the Mac and it worked fine.
	Instead of waiting for the Mac Repairman to come to my lab, I fixed it
myself by having surgery on it with a paperclip-and not through the emergency
eject hole, either.  I had to fish it out of their with that paperclip.
	The repairman hasn't bothered to repair Macs that have been broken all
year long.
	My grandfather bought an IBM clone from Radio Shack.  All he does is
use it as a database.  Three months later, he bought a typewriter because the
word processor on his IBM wasn't good enough for him.
	He even took an IBM-clone course, and still doesn't know how to use it.
Granted, I have had problems with my Amiga, but not any real ones that I
couldn't fix.
				:-)Kyle
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Archimedes?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:04:22 GMT

bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell) writes:
>Nah, a powerful Arc is not expensive at all. Compare the new Arc 5000 to the
>Amiga 3000 - 18 mips versus 9 mips, and <UK2000 versus >UK3000 for a similar
>setup. 

Wow, this sounds good.  What software is available for the Arc?  Where can
one be purchased?  Are there any magazines for the system?  (Basically, I
have never heard of it.)

-- Gerald
From: 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: SHELL vs. CLI
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:36:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr14.203608.6399


	One featrure that the SHELL has, is that if you hold it up to your ear,
you hear the ocean's roar!  Sorry, couldn't resist:-)
	Seriously, the one feature that I like the most about the SHELL is its
history.  Cycle through it with the up and down arrow keys.  Don't know how far
it goes back, or if it's SHELL-process specific, etc, but I think it is.
	A book that points out some of the differences between the SHELL and
the CLI is the Commodore Amiga ENHANCER SOFTWARE book.  You can probably buy
this from Commodore, or borrow it off of a fellow Amiga user if you have to! 
It is part number 363031-01.
	Have fun, and I hope you like the SHELL.  I know I do.

	//
       //  Kyle		Only Amiga makes it possible,
    \\//		All others make it plausible.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Juicy tidbits
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:08:48 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>OK, I deserved that.  I apologize for the exaggeration.

Sure, no offense.  I just happen to be an Amiga owner who does not
believe the Amiga is God's gift.  I would be happy with any computer
that does what I want at a reasonable price.  Even the Mac (okay, so
I have a slight bias against the Mac) would be acceptable if it were
not so expensive.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:26:49 GMT

 >If it is in such a sorry state, then why does my A3000 consistently perform
> >better than a comparably equipped 386-25 PC clone?  You say the Motorola
> >CPU sucks and the Amiga chipset sucks, yet the Intel based machine can not
> >even hope to compete...
> >
> 
> Well, if the Intel-based machine cannot even hope to compete, then why does
> *my* 386 clone consistently perform better than a comparably equipped A3000?
> Get the drift, Skip?  Your casual claim of Amiga superiority doesn't mean
> squat without proof.
> 
> >
> >Skip Sauls
> >
> --
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> | Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
> |    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> |           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
> |                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

	Why even bother comparing 386's to the A3000.  You can get 486's for
  the same price.

							G.Greene
From: lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:47:04 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr13.200531.17506@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.214529.1@cc.helsinki.fi> lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>>> 
>>> Ha!  And you do?!  Really Jarkko, you did *just* what Nish did.  You posted
>>> benchmarks which prove your point.  BTW, it's well known that HP's 040
>>
>>Fuck you and read my message again. I did say that the benchmarks I provided
>  ^^^^^^^^
>>were not absolute truths of anykind as oppisite to what Nish says about his
>>benchmarks. I have never said that benchmarks tell you much at all and I only
>>provided those ones to show Nish that one can get allmost anykind of benchmark
>>results one wants.
>>	I did only prove the fact that benchmarks do not tell you the absolute
>>truth, but you seem to fail to see this too.
>>
> 
> Youch!
> 
> OK.  Apparently we agree that benchmarks don't tell you the absolute truth.

Thank gods. Finally you seem to get it.

> Let's try then, to come up with some way that does tell you the absolute
> truth.  I leave this to you, since you seem to think that you already know

There is no absolute truth (well, 42 perhaps is but...:) ...however one can get
a very correct picture on things when one compares the CPUs in theory as I've
said to you thousand times.

> Oh, and Jarkko, try not to get so emotional, OK?  If this discussion is the
> type of stuff that makes you sweat and swear, I suggest you get a life.

I have a life, thank you.
	The reason why I used such language I used is that there are some
people on the net who simply insist that benchmarks are the one and only truth
there is even as the truth is that benchmarks are damn lies.

But as you seem to read my messages you must have read the question I've asked
you many times but you've not answered. I'd like you to finally answer. Please.

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi