HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Maria Montez vs Burl Ives, or Lighten Up a Little, Folks
Date: 7 Jan 1993 03:37:29 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan7.072242.6476@reed.edu> 
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> In article <1993Jan6.040527.7765@spdcc.com> 
> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) suggests to Furr

That tired old queen?  Why the hell would anyone bother
talking to a drab who'd chose to live in *Glendale*?

> about Arne:

That's me!

> >Maybe you could try reading what Arne has to say without prejudice.
>
> what, and make us miss all the fun?!

You know, I'm completely mystefied by George's (and Greg's)
reaction to me.  I think I'm a nice enough fellow, and there
are people who've put up with me for extended periods of time
recently -- hi W! hi H! -- so I know I'm not Godzilla or
something.  Maybe George has some kind of hormonal imbalance?

Arne
From: hwt@bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Montreal Lesbian named as Rhodes Scholar
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:11:37 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Originator: hwt@bcarh11a

Under the headline "Scholar wants to reverse Rhodes Legacy", the
Montreal Gazette has a story on the front page on Carellin Brooks, one
of Canada's 11 Rhodes scholars this year.

Quotation:

Brooks, a McGill University student, said she's especially happy that
she won after applying as a lesbian candidate.

During the grueling interviewing process, someone at McGill suggested
that she remove the reference to her CKUT radio show Dykes on Mikes.

She didn't. "I wanted to move beyond 'It's OK to be a lesbian but don't
talk about it'," she said.

End quotation

-- 
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	       Legislated morality is the enemy of true morality
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 9 Jan 1993 11:28:38 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1993Jan5.220048.18626@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:

>There's a major brouhaha (a word I love to have opportunity
>to use!) here in San Francisco over the decision of the
>Lesbian & Gay Freedom Day Parade Committee to adopt "Year of
>the Queer" as the theme of this year's parade.  The local

There is an organization called (something like) the national
organization of gay pride parade organizers.  Each year they meet to
coordinate dates, etc. and decide on a national theme.

Has SF considered adopting the national theme or is the Center Of The
Gay Universe afraid that associating with a national organization might
weaken their strong-hold on gayness and encourage the myth that if
you're not in SF you're not really gay?

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ann Landers sez
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:54:18 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca


Ann Landers says the following:

"The word from here, students, is this: If you want to go in for tipping,  
tip the waitress but leave the cows alone."

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:32:01 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1993Jan11.173553.20574@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>>It is the observation of queerdom's most sacred holiday, the anniversary
>>of the Stonewall riots.
>>
>>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.
>
>I don't see any smilies, but I hope to Gawd you mean this sarcastically.

I did not.

If you wish to have a local Homo Happiness Party some other time, do so.
The time of year was chosen to commemorate Stonewall, and I believe one
simultaneous show of numbers, in every city in the world, is what we need
to do so.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Colorado Replies
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:23:07 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu


To Dave O'Donnell and his letter, a one word response:

    SNAP!

I don't think I've seen something as cogent, compact, and communicative
in a long, long time.

Thank you.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 19:10:37 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <thaaang.726495388@cwis> <1993Jan8.142957.14372@spdcc.com>

BBC writes:
>>John, who somehow senses George would rather die than do drag
>Hon, he IS doing drag!  Think about it.

*NOT*.

John Dorrance writes:
>And your interactions on motss are multifaceted and continually
>surprising? Thanks for letting us know...

Of course they are -- except where Arne Asshole is concerned.

 
() Too much of a good thing is wonderful.
()      -- Mae West
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Organization: Enhanced Cybernetic Logic Operating Systems Group
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:16:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.154330.17630@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>We've discussed the question of G?M seeks same before on MOTSS,
>without any sort of resolution (as though resolution is possible) and
>I thought about it for more than my usual 10 seconds before replying.
>It seems that there are several convergent reasons for the application
>(G?M seeks same). To generalize, I feel that the problem is a part of
>the system itself, and not the people. Since divergent views can arrive
>at racist overtones, it is a problem of mechanism rather than intent.

YES! YES! YES! (I feel like a clip from "When Harry Met Sally")

I have, in my "life", put out four personals. They all, to one degree or
another, said something to the effect of: 'If you're someone who finds
"no fats/fems" or "Blonde/Blue" or "Young and Hung" to be a necessary
requirement, then I don't want you. But if you *are* looking for someone
who you can have an intelligent conversation with, laugh with, share some
time -- good AND bad -- with, then I'd like to hear from you.' I met one
very nice man (who I will admit upfront was in many respects not "the
perfect type" for me) this way, and I really enjoyed the times we spent
together. All the other replies have been through e-mail and have equally
produced intelligent, enjoyable, wonderfully REAL people to get to know.

--Dave O'Donnell
  atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu
  Opinions: What we all have but wish others didn't.
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: penis size
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:56:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan8.155613.18086
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan8.003713.29603@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) wrote: 
>->In article <1993Jan5.152527.6888@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com writes:
>->> Entire bars become silent if I walk in wearing lycra shorts
>->> with a big fat hardon snaking down the leg.
>->
>->I simply MUST go to Paris and visit again sometime.
>
>you HATEFUL bitch!
>

I thought about it, and we actually should have suspended Michael from
the upstairs loft while the drag queens did their show on Thanksgiving
and had Carmen Miranda whip him.

For the uninformed, unparticipated, there were quite a bevy of
MOTSSers in Euroland over Thanksgiving, and I, being totally obsessed
with getting a magazine done, managed to ignore them effectively,
except for the night their activities actually drove everyone out of
the backroom of a Leather Bar (a scene between Michael et al, Martin
Prime, a huge bodybuilder skinhead who liked to be stepped on (not
Martin: Martin is a tall English skinhead with a devestaing cobination
now of shortgrey hair and jet-black moustache who likes to step on
bodybuilder skinheads), and a whip. As everyone knows from classical
drama, whips and guns and such are always persona in a situation.) I
wasn't in the backroom. I had affected a rapproachment with a
particulary fuzzy and well put-together (ahem) Persian who showed up
suddenly. For thanksgiving dinner, there were three drag queens at the
shouse, one doing Josephine Baker, one doing "I am a Song" in a
particularly unaffected and natural style as a combination stripper,
leatherman, dragqueen, and a friend of mine doing Carmen Miranda. The
net effect was like Annie Lennox in "I need a man" since it was all
videoed. I think this was all a prelude to the evening in the Leather
bar, an evening when I started wearing a chain-mail half-masque, but
couldn't bear the weight, so I took it off and stormed through a
houseful of people later with Martin in rubber and leather, causing
consternations and ripples of excitement. Surprisingly, at no time
were there phallic revelations on my part, though they were potential
at all moments. Michaels charms were not revealed to me either. At the
next MOTSS con, there is a "Birds of A Feather" forum for hateful
hosemonsters to get together and beat each other off, since ordinary
people do it for the wrong reasons. I'm bringing a Nimslo camera to
take 3D pictures of the event.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 15:28:53 GMT


In article <73237@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com
(George Dalton Madison) writes:

>Jess Anderson writes:

>>(I believe you must mean "Not all gay men are,
>>rather than "All gay men are not," by the way.)

>A difference without a difference, methinks.

Shirley, you jest.  I thought you called yourself a writer.
To quote the Chuang Tsu: "Words are not just blown air; they
have a meaning."

>>I would like to know how you define "queen" such that you  
>>are not one.

>Simple -- any title that Arne claims for himself is
>something I want nothing to do with.

A curious philosophy, distancing yourself from all that
another person is.  Human being.  Educated.  Experienced.
Witty.  Urbane.  Sophisticated.  Above all: possessed of a
sense of humor about himself.

By being so anti-Arne, you deride yourself.  If there's a
gain for anyone in that, I fail to see what it might be.

>>[how is "queen" defined such that you aren't one?]

>>I would like you to be very specific about
>>this, and include reliable guides for a taxonomy that
>>divides the universe of gay men into queens and not-queens.
>>I would like you to assign the following persons to the
>>appropriate category, as you define it:

>[List deleted]

>But in accord with what I just said -- Arne put himself on
>the list.  He has previously stated that he sees being a
>"bitchy queen" as the preeminent mode of social interaction
>for gay men.  I *strongly* disagree.

This strong disagreement doesn't seem to wash with the obvious
facts.  The pre-eminent mode of your social interaction with
him fits every known definition (I claim) of "bitchy queen,"
so you're more than a little hoist on your own petard in that
regard.

I suppose one could make quite a bit of it all, in terms of
character-armor analysis, humorless obsessiveness, and a
host of other abstractions.  You will do what you will do,
which renders any such project beside the point.

Still, I hardly think you can expect to excoriate publicly the
social patterns of this or that person without having your own
patterns be publicly questioned.  You can be indifferent to the
result (I think you've said you are), but that carries its
own implications -- all things are connected -- and it seems
to me the very vehemence of your behavior in the matter shows
you do indeed care.  If we have to drain this particular cup
of bitterness to the very dregs, so be it.

But I for one hope you will opt out of this high dudgeon
mode sooner, rather than later.

<> Michelangelo's David would not be funded by Jesse Helms.
<> It's the little touches that make a future solid enough
<> to be destroyed. -- Nelson Minar (nelson@reed.edu
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female 
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 11:34:32 GMT

In article <726654946snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>
john@drummond.demon.co.uk writes:

>> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>> >There is a very large
>> >barking creature (I admit only assuming it is a dog)
>> >averaging 25 loud reports a minute, for about two weeks now,
>> >day and night, day in, day out, without cessation.

>*I* suggest burning some old tyres in the front garden.

John!  I've missed your panache in such matters.  Where
*have* you been?!?

<> I hate shopping, but I love buying...
<> -- Mike Batchelor (mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us)
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:53:17 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:

 >Actually, I DID think it was another piece of California froo-froo
 >airheadedness until I had the misfortune to sit next to someone on the
 >bus who was wearing so much perfume that I feared for my life from
 >spontaneous combustion. Toxic-shock syndrome, anyone?

I'm sympathetic about the perfume, but this isn't toxic-shock
syndrome.  Not unless the bus was tightly packed to the point of
being air-free.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:16:28 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>There *are* people who deserve a dash of salt in the eyes and a
>rapier 'twixt the ribs; but it seems that this sort of thing is
>Arne's *primary* mode of social interaction. It's almost like 
>he took Donelan's "Darling! Being a bitchy queen is the most fun
>you can *have* without a condom!" cartoon as the blueprint for his
>entire life....

And your interactions on motss are multifaceted and continually
surprising? Thanks for letting us know...

>>That's known as George-baiting, not whining, and not hypocrisy, George.

>1 for 3, Steve.  Whether he's "baiting" me or not is irrelevant.
>It's an excellent example of his retarded approach to social 
>interaction -- which is laden with whining and hypocrisy.

If this whole thing weren't so preposterous I'd be rolling on the
floor...

John, who somehow senses George would rather die than do drag

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:21:54 GMT

In article <C0JDyq.50A@sdf.lonestar.org> marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco) writes:
>You are *so* *right* re: antiperspirant.  I get really irritated when
>I wanna park my tongue in a 'pit and it feels like I just stuck it
>in the Mohave Desert. The taste of aluminimum stuff totally ruins the
>moment.  If someone has a *really* *acrid* *odor*, a fresh scrubbing
>or a touch of cologne will do.

I recall a hot summer afternoon where I relaxed with a sponge bath of
cool rubbing alcohol, this being Parke Davis' ethanol-based stuff.
A little later, I was in the midst of things when suddenly my
partner poked his head up from  my chest and exclaimed "_Bleah!_, you
taste TERRIBLE!"

Reading the label later told me that the compound was denatured with
sucrose octaacetate, perhaps the bitterest compounds known which is
also completely harmless.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:41:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.092921.16072@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.032637.16456@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>>Why is it "racist" to prefer one race over another in a sexual context?  
>
>It isn't....I would never rule out a person because of his color, but
>God I hope he is dark!!!!!

>This shit about it being racist is trash.

I think the comments here have been a bit facile.  Not because I necessarily
disagree with them, but that the situation is so much more complicated than
that, and to simply reduce this to a "matter of personal preference" as if
there might not be something else going on there, is to be open to the
charge of cluelessness.

Listen, when 80% or more of the personal ads say "GWM seeks GWM", what does
this say to men of color who might not be as discriminating?   When most of
these GWM's have grown up in a segregated society such that even the idea
of having sex with someone who is not their race doesn't even _occur_ to them,
how can you reduce this simply to a matter of "personal preference"?  It's
not "personal preference", it's usually blind acceptance of the conventions
which they've grown up with which echo the racism in our society.  And for
some of them, it's more blatant racism.

This is not to say that you can dictate on an individual level what is
appropriate behavior, but to refuse to look at what might be going on
on a personal level or more systemically under the excuse that's it's
all "personal preference" is typical white-boy cluelessness.

>Just like some folks out
>there trying to say it is wrong not to be attracted to fat men. (I am
>fat and I am not attracted to fat men.)  It is all preference, personal
>preference.......

Yeah, yeah, self-hatred doesn't have much to do with it, does it?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 09:28:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.012454.8865@oracle.us.oracle.com> dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.171613.22010@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>Doesn't it have the largest Armenian community outside of Yerevan?  Yum.
>
>Racist!  :-)

as in
i'll RACE you to them!

???

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca   postmaster@thinkage.com   thinkage!kgdykes
         harley-request@thinkage.on.ca             kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca
From: hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu (Harry Baldwin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Walk?  Shirley Not! (was Re: Soc.motss: The Color Version)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:26:50 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan10.220256.27783@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>I've been reading Ambrose Bierce short stories lately. (ObMotss -
>Bierce demonstrates that you don't have to be queer to be a bitchy
>queen). There's a wonderful horror story of his titled something like
>"What may happen in fields of wild rye." Stephen King stole "Children
>of the Corn" from this story.

I thought King stole it from Tom Tryon's "Harvest Home" which was stolen
in turn from Shirley Jackson's story "The Lottery."
Or am I getting my tribal scapegoat stories mixed up?

<> "Distinguished composers borrow from other <> Harry Baldwin
<>  composers. Genuises like myself steal     <> hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu
<>  ouright." --Igor Stravinsky               <>

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:35:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.175437.23515@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) explains to George Madison in sweetly reasonable terms:

> 
> George, I'm sure you have no idea how nice people are being to you here
> in this discussion; I think there's been a real attempt to avoid a tit
> for tat (exactly why I'm not sure: I think it's because in this
> extended family, you're one of the core relatives, and you're not going
> away...

> Listen, Arne might not be _your_ cup of tea, but you are really losing
> your grip on reality (not to mention your power to persuade anyone) if
> you insist on describing Arne as being "indiscriminately, unrelentingly
> nasty."

Steve, go to the head of the class. Here's your gold star.

Oops, but then he goes on to say:
> 
> Now, how about trying to be an objective core relative?

Steve, go stand in the corner.