HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Stoning - avoiding flying objects.
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:35:14 +0000

>Pat Cleveland writes:
>
>>Just another data point on random violence...
>>Two days ago a couple was attacked walking on a path near Cornell at 9:30 pm.
>>It's still unclear as to what exactly happened, but so far it is believed
>>that four men attempted to rob the couple and then attacked them with ROCKS.
>>The woman is still in the local hospital but is expected to make it;
>>the man was evacuated to a hospital in Sayre, PA where he remains in critical
>>condition.
>
>>Thought stoning was an obsolete means of execution :<( .
>
Stephen Northcutt writes:
>Nope, alive and well as you are clearly now aware.  Thrown objects are
>very common in the middle east and riot situations in general.
>
>I have always felt that any decent MA study should include practice
>evading and blocking throw object (or catching and reusing).  A pretty
>safe way to accomplish this training is tennis balls.  Apparently tennins
>balls wear out and don't bounce so good so you should be able to acquire
>all you need from your local tennis club.  Get a bunch.
>
>WARNING: eye protection required, yes a tennis ball can injure an eye!!!!!
>
>Beginner training:
>Instructor has balls, student facing them 15 - 20 feet away.  Instructor
>kihaps and throws ball.  Student can block, dodge etc.  All other students
>collect the balls which GO EVERYWHERE :-)
[more great ideas on missile dodging training - deleted]
>I've posted this before, as a thing for MA kids to try, has anyone ever
>given it a whirl?  It really is a blast and important training.
>
>Stephen


After a particularly tough senior grade session we will sometimes play
games to calm down a bit before facing the outside world. One game
involves the use of foam footballs that are available in the school gym
where we train. The game is rather like British Bull Dog except instead
of catching the "runners" the people in the middle have to throw the
balls to hit them.


The other place where dodging is very important is snowball fights. We
had a tradition at school; when there was snow we had a huge snowball
fight (which often degenerated into real fights!) 6th formers against the
rest. (6th formers are 18 year olds the rest range 12 to 17 years). That
meant about 60 6th formers against about 300 little sods who would throw
volleys of snowballs about 100 at at time, almost impossible not to get
hit!


Still, it did teach you to stay alert, especially when things turned
nasty and they started to put stones in the snowballs.


Bill Burgar.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu (-vs- Hapkido)
Summary: Sorry, I couldn't reach you by mail, Stephen ...
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date:  6 OCT 92 15:41:07    


This is in reply to mail from Stephen Chan, but I couldn't get
mail back to him from any address I tried, hence this post.
Sorry for quoting your mail without permission, Stephen.

>To: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com
>Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu
>Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
>In-Reply-To: <1992Oct5.154405.22106@PA.dec.com>
>Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
>
>Todd,
>	I'm curious about your comment that Hapkido has a uniquely Korean
>slant to it. 

	That was probably a bad way to phrase it, but what I meant was
that Yong Sul Choi apparently couldn't resist taking his Daito-Ryu-Aikijutsu
training and incorporating some very recognizable Tae Kyon elements (notably the
wide arcing kicks).   I can't believe how fast some of those longtime Hapkido
guys from Korea can throw those looping kicks.  Breathtaking.   Just enough
difference from TKD kicks to give a unique sword-like effect in some cases.  
I could swear I hear a small sonic boom as the foot slices past.  :-)
And I'm not normally a big fan of fancy kicks.

Not entirely integrated with the grappling, imo, but sometimes it seems to 
flow together reasonably well in practice and demonstrations.  I did notice
that even the best of them seem to fall down a lot, though, comparatively,
because they're taking bigger risks with their movements.  That's the part
that's a little incongruous with the Aikijutsu mechanics.

>I've recently started training in Hapkido, and (to me) it is
>straight jujitsu - though the emphasis is on perfecting movement before
>learning techniques, so it seems to be a more -do emphasis than the jujitsu
>systems I've studied.
>	Stephen

	I'm not sure what straight Jujutsu is, since there are a half dozen or
so distinct traditional ryu, if you go back before the days of Judo,
but none that I know of used the distinct Tae Kyon style kicks.  

	I'm not sure what you meant by '-do' related to [movement vs.
technique].  Movement *is* a technical element, and therefore would be 
appropriately part of a traditional ryu, not neccessarily unique to a modern 
Budo form. 

Aikido emphasizes movement in a special way, to me, not because it is a _Budo_ 
form, but because it is so heavily oriented toward taking advantage of
certain subtleties in Yomi (reading), Hyoshi (timing), and Tai Sabaki (evasive 
movement) and such, or at least that's my understanding ...

						take care,
						todd

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| VAX/VMS Software Support, Blue Bell, Pa.                          |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: halvork@dhhalden.no (HALVOR KISE)
Subject: Re: rhythm (Kali/Wing Chun/JKD)
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 09:06:56 GMT

In article <28SEP199210252454@zeus.tamu.edu> khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd) writes:
>From: khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd)
>Subject: Re: rhythm (Kali/Wing Chun/JKD)
>Date: 28 Sep 92 15:25:00 GMT
>In article <19trk0INNh10@uwm.edu>, ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes...
>> 
>>As for internal, there is much to it.  I just got explained recently that
>>the Shil Lim Tao form is not just for showing the basic movements of WC,
>>but is also used as an internal form to build chi and alignment.  Leung Ting's
>>people don't agree with this, and think the form is unimportant once you
>>know it.  But other's such as William Cheung, Hawkins Cheung, Moy Yat and
>>a handfull of others feel it should always be practiced.
>> 
>>Marty
>> 
>>Do
>
>I studied under Leung Ting's Association and I learned that Sil Lim Tao was
>the most important form of all and should be practiced at each session. It
>is not only the foundation of all the techniques but it is also the Chi Kung
>form. It is to be practiced before anything else. > 
>Kuo Hau Chang  :)               Praying for Mantis                (:
>Texas A&M      :)   7-star,8-step,Taiji,Tantui,Lu-Han,Flat Plate  (:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Dave N. Afsar)
Subject: Re: Shorin-Ryu vs Shotokan
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:38:18 GMT

It is all up to you which one is better. You have to decide what kind of
workout and partners you are looking for( such as sparing, kata, basic,
spirit, attitude, and more).

If you have a good teacher and you are working hard at it then you can be good
at any martial art style (Shorin-Ryu, Shotokan, Wado-Ryu, Take won do....).

Good luck in selecting the style.

Dave.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bcarlson@denver.cba.du.edu
Subject: Wado-ryu
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:26:25 GMT


A have notice a few postings on Wado Ryu karate, and I was wondering if  
anyone out there had attended the Utah Open National Championchips during  
86-90.  If you have, send me a little e-mail on when you did. 
Thanks mucho

Bill
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Over-engineered (was Re: Aikido-U.S. & Japan)
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:24:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes...
> lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:
>>PS  To the individual that described Aiki Jujutsu as being "over engineered",
>>    as an engineer, that is the best complement I have ever heard.  :-D
>>    NL
> 
>	I'll take the blame for that remark :-)
>	It does strike me as an extremely sophisticated tool to use against
>most attackers - kind of like getting a PhD in Mathematics to fix your tax
>return.
>	The same could be said about stuff like Taiji, or (that most creamy
>of dessert toppings) Bagua.
>	But that's okay - for most MA that I know, training is a labor of love,
>so it doesn't matter if it's overengineered.

Maybe just my odd view, but I think of most martial arts in this light.
Shotokan Karate seems over-engineered with regard to one-shot power
delivery; Ninpo Taijutsu seems over-engineered with regard to the link
with spiritual and emotional states; Aikijutsu seems overengineered with
respect to technicalities of movement and locking in comparison to what
is strictly neccessary to avoid an attack and retaliate.  But the excess is 
what provides room for the expression of the individual within the structure 
of the art, and retains its unique form.

To me, this over-engineering is what makes martial art technically distinct from
each other and from similar combat sports (in addition to usual differences 
in attitude and approach).   The arts would become indistinct from each other 
in application if it weren't for all of this excessive engineering that went 
into them.  

>	Stephen Chan
>	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net

					todd
					stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Aikido-U.S. & Japan
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 14:15:08 GMT
Keywords: Aiki

In article <1992Oct2.071926.12389@pixel.kodak.com> lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:
>PS  To the individual that described Aiki Jujutsu as being "over engineered",
>    as an engineer, that is the best complement I have ever heard.  :-D
>    NL

	I'll take the blame for that remark :-)
	It does strike me as an extremely sophisticated tool to use against
most attackers - kind of like getting a PhD in Mathematics to fix your tax
return.
	The same could be said about stuff like Taiji, or (that most creamy
of dessert toppings) Bagua.

	But that's okay - for most MA that I know, training is a labor of love,
so it doesn't matter if it's overengineered.
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Protocol & instructors of othr styles
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 13:39:33 GMT
Organization: hah!  we don't need no steenkin' organization!
Summary: 	-=-=-< respect >-=-=-
Followup-To: 	don't blindly follow anything.... or anyone
Keywords: 	-=-=-< respect or caution >-=-=-

In article <1992Oct2.164542.2742@mtroyal.ab.ca> mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:

>
>How do you address the instructor from another style in open style tournaments.
>Assume no grudge or adulation.  And, what are the titles of instructors in
>TKD, HKD, Aikdo or Jujitsu?
>
>Thanks for your time
>
>Mario Tambay

	it does depend a little on the situation.  if i know and respect the
person, i would give him/her their proper title, (Sifu, Master, teacher what
ever is appropriate).
	if i do not like them, or respect them, i will *always* be polite, as
i represent *my* Sifu, and our school, but i will call them by their proper 
title, (ie., Sifu, Master, teacher.)
	if they claim to be something, and i know to the contrary, (ie., they
claim to be a Sifu of style X and i know that they are not master of anything,)
but they teach others, i will address them as teacher, or sir/ms-mr so and so.
	in any case, i will always be respectful and cautious.  
	when i do not know what the status of the other person is, and i do
know they are the teacher/sifu of a style, in absence of personal knowledge
of their level of skill, i will always give them the bennefit of the doubt,
and address them as the level claimed (ie. Sifu, Master, teacher) with the
respect due to their rank.  you never know who knows what, and who is who.
it is always a wise thing to be respectful, especially if you don't know know
who or what they are.
	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fengstad@xi.uleth.ca (Grant Fengstad)
Subject: Re: Book on TKD kicks
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:38:32 GMT

In article <W=2-88A@engin.umich.edu> cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.171945.11864@bnrmtl.bnr.ca> carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon) writes:
>>I am looking for a good book which describes the various types
>>of kicks used in Tae Kwon Do. Is there such a thing? If so could
>>someone please email me or post as it may be of interest to others.
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Peter Carbon
>> bnrmtl!carbon@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
>>
>
>Please post any info, or send it to me on email, too!
>Corey
>

There are a few books that should provide this information.  If you want
a good reference, I would recommend the Encyclopeadia of TaeKwon Do, in
either the condensed form or full, as written by the founder of TaeKwon
Do, General Choi Hong Hi.

These books can generally be ordered through several TKD Mags, such as
TaeKwon Do Times.

--
#====================================================================#
# Grant M. Fengstad		     E Mail:    fengstad@xi.Uleth.CA #
# Manager, Network Operations	     Voice:     (403) 382-6724       #
# Canadian Regional Airlines Ltd.    FAX:	(403) 327-1229       #
#====================================================================#
From: JMK127@psuvm.psu.edu (JOHN MICHAEL KALISZEWSKI)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Paul Vunak Seminar
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:26:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92279.172604JMK127
Organization: Penn State University


                       JEET KUNE DO CONCEPTS
                       FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS
                         SEMINAR TAUGHT BY
                            PAUL VUNAK
                       in Erie, Pennsylvania
         Oct. 31st & Nov. 1st, 1992 . 10:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.

For a detailed flyer please either e-mail me at jmk127@psuvm.psu.edu or write
to : 9-90 Variety Inc
     5290 Kuhl Road
     Erie, Pa 16510
     Attn: John M Kaliszewski

Please feel free to call at 1(814)899-4245 Noon til 6p.m. every day except
Tuesdays and Wednesdays....eastern time. Look for other world class martial
arts seminars to take place here as well. Thanks for your support.
                             Sincerely,
                         John M Kaliszewski
From: mh4e@resumix.portal.com (Michael Heiler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu (meaning of _Aiki_
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:07:44 GMT
Reply-To: mh4e@resumix.portal.com
Organization: Resumix, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

In article 27890@PA.dec.com, stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
> 
> 
> This is a tricky language translation issue, but Aiki is a fairly generic 
> term, I believe, not specifically related to vital force or internal energy as 
> implied by reference to Qigong.  I'm aware that some schools claim to
> preserve and a specific technical meaning for Aiki (right down to techniques and
> combat exercises) as far back as the the 10th century or so.  But I don't
> really think there's much evidence that Aikijutsu is any more than 
> a name later reserved for certain schools of Taijutsu or Jujutsu that happened
> to emphasize technical elements that were kept outside of Judo (for 
> whatever reasons) when most of the JJ schools merged a century ago.   
> 
> 

My understadning is AikiJuJutsu and JuJutsu were developed as two different arts
during the feudal era of Japanese history, and the nomes of each were changed (to
their current form) in the 19th century.

Having taken both, I can assure you there are more that just subtle differences.
Their approaches to combat situations are completely different.

- Mike
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: troyer@mitre.org (Tom Royer)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:55:38 GMT

In article <92272.132223GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU 
<GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> 
> - I still prefer a good umbrella, and I have carried them on airplanes,
>   although I check them at the front of the plane.
> 
That and a double-ended key ring with lots of keys.
In an airplane or at work, they go in my
briefcase.  If I anticipate needing them, they're in hand.

--
Tom Royer
From: pals@ipact.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Where be the FAQ?
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:36:01 CDT
Organization: IPACT, Valparaiso IN

What has happened to the FAQ for this group?  I saw an early version
(I think it was in July), and as far as I can tell it hasn't been
posted since.

-- 
Randy Pals                |pals@ipact.com
IPACT, Inc.               |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto)
Subject: Re: Katanas, help!
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:21:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.180324.2882@wkuvx1.bitnet> paschjc@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>
>I have tried and tried to find a book or manual on traditional 
>Japanese sword fighting.  I have failed miserably.  If anyone
>has any information about this subject, I would greatly a 
>appreciate it.  
>
oh, i forgot, you should talk directly to Mr. Kiyota; i found the 
other people there to be less knowledgeable even about the current
stocks...their typical answer is "it's on order from japan", yet
when i talked with him directly, i found the stuff is there and in stock!
.
  


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gion@chopin.udel.edu (Timothy C. Gion)
Subject: Re: Thought for the day
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:45:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.182449.9490@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>Lovret in "The Way and the Power" states about sitting in seiza that
>
>	"Beginners find this position agonizing, but
>	 after a few years, it becomes quite comfortable."

I'd just like to comment on seiza... <arrrggghh!>  heh... what really amazes  
me is people who look like they are gliding when they knee walk... it took me
about a week before I could even get the right motion down...

-- 
Timothy Gion AKA  /     \     University of Delaware - Computer Science
                 -Merdion-                     ^                   
                  \     /                      \ fixed that sp error!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Taido/Hakamas
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:37:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.140753.15183@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>
>
>  Originally, of course, hakama were designed to hide a swordsman's
>  footwork from their opponent's, or so they say.   

	I'm not sure this is so.  Hakama were, to the best of my knowledge,
	a formal garment used for fairly fancy schmancy occaisions and later
	became regular wear for the Samurai.  Originally, hakama had hems
	that trailed the floor.  Very showy item, those.  When that Samurai
	adopted them for more casual use, the hems came up to the ankles so
	they would not stumble all over themselves, an obvious problem whilst
	in the heat of mortal combat.

	BTW, the hakama was essentially supplanted as formal wear by much more
	elaborate garments such as noshi for men and ichikake for women.

	A properly fitted hakama should not hang below the ankles.  This 
	exposes the footwork for all to see.  Legwork though is still fairly
	obscured by the garment.

	-Andy V.
From: rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Paw)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Protocol and titles of instructors in other styles
Date: 5 Oct 1992 21:27:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct5.185821.6972@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>Technically, as Peter pointed out, Japanese arts (Judo, Aikido, Karate-Do,
>Kendo, etc.) generally use Sensei, Chinese arts (Wushu, Taiji, etc.) 
>use Sifu, and Korean (Hapkido, TaeKwonDo, etc.) Sabunim.
>
>But to complicate things, if you are dealing with a stickler, using a title like
>Sensei might even be insulting to them, if you aren't actually
>one of their students.   And many people insist on 'master' from their
>students, while others (like me) have very negative associations with that
>term.

I had this problem when I used to date a TKD practitioner.  I wasn't sure how
to refer to her teacher so I asked my SiJay about the problem.  (SiJay is 
the term for a female senior student).  Anyway, she told me to use their
title followed by their last name.  As in Sabunim X, Sensei Y, Sifu Z, etc.
since you aren't their student you have no business calling them just
Sifu, Sensei, etc.  It works fine for me and just makes me sound like a 
traditionalist since that's the way they used to do it in China.

[stuff deleted]
>
>'Sir' works very well with almost all men as far as I've even seen.
>Many will then say 'please call me ...' and give their name or 
>usual monicker.
>
>I'm uncomfortable about 'Madam' or "Ma'am" for women, though.   
>Maybe I'm just not used to it.
>Any female martial arts professors out there that can address this ? 
>
>						todd

I usually use Sir, or Ma'am if they're a senior student (instructor), not
the master.


-- 
Richard Tse-Woon Paw            Within each man is the most powerful weapon
rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu                  on Earth.  ---  The human mind
rpaw@ucsee.berkeley.edu          
Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: one to ten in korean
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:14:13 GMT

In article stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:
>In article miller@bluemoon.rn.com (John Miller) writes:
>> 1 = IL (ill)
>> 2 = YI (ee as in week, no Y sound)
>> 3 = SAM (sahm and in samba)
>> 4 = SAH (sah as in sahm without the m)
>> 5 = OH (long O sound)
>> 6 = YOOK (oo as in kookie NOT cookie)
>> 7 = CHIL (as as CH + IL from above)
>> 8 = PAL (hard P, ahl as in all)
>> 9 = KU (koo as in kookie)
>> 10 = SHIP (sheep, but abrupt vowel sound)
>
>I'm pretty sure that what you have here is first, second, third, forth, etc
>rather than one, two, three, four, etc
>
>Joel Stave
>stave@apollo.hp.com

Me too.  The numbers go: hana, dool, set ...
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov