HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bwood@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (William Wood)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:41:00 GMT

In article <93021.100644MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>, David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes...
>In article <1jk591INN96s@tamsun.tamu.edu>, bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell) says:
>>
>>In article <93020.095246MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath, CDP
>><MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>>>I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>>>85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>>>they even talk to you.  What for?
>>
>>Guesses:
>>1.  They have never had to deal with a legion of people who demand privacy
>>    and refuse to give out their ssn, and they didn't know any better.
>>2.  They are entering some or all of your information into a database keyed
>>    to the SSN, and can't be bothered with generating an alternate ID number.
>>3.  They are screening for employment eligibility -- if you don't have a SSN
>>    then you can't work.  (This isn't necessarily true, right?)
>>4.  THey are flat-out stupid.
>>
>>WBB
>>
>>--
>>Will Bell -- bell@cs.tamu.edu -- Live from the heart of Scenic Central Texas
>>"Why did you pour ink on my head?"
> 
>  My guess is that they are doing prescreens - credit checks, verification of
>  employement history (via resume vs. credit report), medical/drug use/smoking
>  history checks via the Medical Information Burea.
> 
>         - David Horvath
> 


<*>  This is also interesting...  Does anyone have the address on the
Medical Information Bureau??

    I saw a quick report on them on my local news.  From what I was
able to catch, anyone can write to them to get copies of whatever
is written on you (medically).  

    This seems to be the main storage center of medical information that 
is used by and contributed to from nearly all major insurance companies.  
If you ever went to the Doctor to fix a toe nail - the whole story is in 
their files.  And Lord help you if you have a disease that those "with 
inquiring minds" wish to know..they will find out here.

    It seems like this is much like that little form you can fill out
to find out how many quarterrs you've paid into Social Security.  I
just don't recall the address.  I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in 
Virginia..    Who  knows????
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:02:49 GMT

In article <JET.93Jan20182618@boxer.nas.nasa.gov> jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend) writes:
>"MBADBH" == David B. Horvath <David> writes:
>
>MBADBH> I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>MBADBH> 85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>MBADBH> they even talk to you.  What for?
>
>credit check.  Gets them all sorts of info they would like to know.
>Probably some information they aren't allowed to ask *you*.  (like
>marrige status, # of kids/dependents, time at last address etc etc)

bingo, yep...illegal to ask that stuff...but hey...if we happen to find out
by way of the SSN...well now..we certainly were looking for a white male with
a family who is only 30 and won't cost much on the health insurance etc.
SSN info is abused lots.

Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: dwn@bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Reply-To: dwn@bnl.gov
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:52:52 GMT

In article 3720@nwnexus.WA.COM, gilbert@halcyon.com (John Gilbert) writes:
>In article <x2_s1lf@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>
>>Actually Enhanced Caller*ID now becoming available in many areas DOES 
>>transmit the name of the caller.  I like that feature.  I don't have
>>to quickly search a list of numbers of people I'll take calls from
>>while the phone rings away.
>
>Does this transmit the name of the person *placing the call*, or the 
>registerd name of the person subscribing to the originating device?
>
The subscriber's name will be displayed.

>If we call from a pay phone, how do it know?
>

It won't.

---
Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093


Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:07:14 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron) writes:

>Caller ID wouldn't identify *you* anyway.  All it would give is your phone
>number.  Your phone number is not *you*, just as, interestingly but not
>surprisingly, your e-mail account info. is not you.  Anyone out here can
>send you e-mail despite the fact that you hide who you are.  

(His real name is "terminator" or at least that's what he used to go by.)

Actually Enhanced Caller*ID now becoming available in many areas DOES 
transmit the name of the caller.  I like that feature.  I don't have
to quickly search a list of numbers of people I'll take calls from
while the phone rings away.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: 23 Jan 1993 08:06:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu very unnecessarily flames:

> "Hey Paula, come listen to this nutcake."

Is it *really* necessary to stoop to that?  Whether or not we
are truly adults, there is no reason to not act like grownups.

John
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3083 ca.driving:2882 misc.consumers:22592 misc.legal:23364
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,ca.driving,misc.consumers,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Am I being sleazed by this insurance company?
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:30:23 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1993Jan26.220455.15604@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@twinsun.com writes:
>I applied for auto insurance yesterday and I'm trying to decide whether I've
>been sleazed.  I share an apartment with two women not otherwise related to me
>(i.e., they're basically strangers).  The insurance company informed me that
>if I didn't put them on my policy,
---
	How did the insurance company even find out about them?  It would
seem improper for an insurance company to ask who I lived with.


	I've never heard of such weirdness.  I'd try some other companies.

just my 2 cents,
-wat-
-- 

:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:34:21 GMT

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

[...]
>The only part missing is giving me the ability to automatically block
>incoming calls originating from caller*ID-blocked lines.  Given 
>that, we are in full agreement.
[...]

This is sometimes called "block blocking". If your phone company cares
to offer it, they can. Usually, they will not even mention until after
blocking is required. Why? Because they don't want either blocking or
block blocking, they want to sell telephone numbers to Radio Shack.

- Carl

--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: 23 Jan 93 10:27:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) 
 
has read:
 
> How do you feel about being forced to have a license plate on
> any motor vehicle you drive?  I don't view it is an act of
> Big Brother looking down on us.  I just see it as a necessary
> thing which serves to protect all of us.
> 
 
and says in response:
 
>> huh...how does a license plate protect us?  i think the
>> purpose of plates is to get money...period!  what if the gov
>> required you to wear a plate around your neck when you walked
>> in public so they could...uh...protect us all??
 
and now for clarification I reply:
 
Let's say you get run over by a white Honda Accord and the
driver doesn't stop, but thankfully you'll live to post again.
Could you identify which of the zillions of white Honda Accords
plowed into you?  If you saw the license plate, the government
can hopefully find the inconsiderate driver that did the
hit-and-run so your lawyer can get you $12.8 million over your
lifetime.  :-)
 
Now if I just stole from you the $100 that your lawyer let you
keep (sorry, law people, just a joke) because I need to buy
lots of caffeine tablets to stay up late at night posting to
this fine group, you could probably identify me, assuming there
aren't lots of other people with the good or bad luck of
looking just like me.  !8-\
 
Summary:  license plates protect us by allowing us to identify
          those who might do us harm with their vehicles.  Unlike
          people on foot, cars tend to look a lot more alike, and
          with the possible exception of my car, they can run
          away a lot faster. :-(
 
Thanks for the question.
 
John
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:27:09 GMT

In article <218@complex.complex.is> frisk@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) writes:
>
>So, why hasn't a similar [master ID] number been adopted in the US...?

The rugged sense of independence and government mistrust that the Americans
have has stood them in good stead this time.

A universal id number signals danger to privacy because it makes the
collection of data about you trivial, both to the government and to
private data collectors.


In spite of all the legislation people propose, there is only one true
way to protect your privacy, and that is to make sure that your data
simply isn't given out and/or can't be correlated.   Laws can't protect
you the way that simply not having the data exist at all can.

And that's not even counting crazy practices, such as using the universal
ID number (which is well known) as a password for access to supposedly
private systems such as bank accounts.

In Canada, we're even better off than the US, since the SIN (the equiv of
the SSN) is used far less frequently.   Essentially, only people who
pay you money ask for your SIN.  In the USA, everybody asks for it, but
they don't get it from me and many others.

There is a price to pay, to some extent.  The lack of this number means that
records are screwed up and mismatched.  But it's a good price, in that
reduction in the efficacy of these systems discourages such systems.

I say, let me decide when I want to reveal my identity and let other parties
correlate data on me.  If I want to give myself a universal identifier, I
can do so, but no person should be required to have one.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: jdraper@andy.bgsu.edu (johanna draper)
Subject: SSN & college job searching
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:07:27 GMT

I would like some advice on a Social Security number issue. Today I went 
to my campus job counseling office to find out the registration procedure
for on-campus interviews. Turns out you have to buy a certain software
package to produce your data sheet/resume. Well, ok, fine, I ask to buy
it, but they want to write my SSN on the disk. (They print your resume
for you from the disk & enter your information in their referral database
at the same time.) I balk at this (hey, I read this newsgroup) and ask
if they can assign me another number. No, they can't, because my SSN in
the database has to match. At this point I say forget the whole thing
and walk at. 

Only later did I realize that because I wouldn't give them my SSN were
they denying me access to any on-campus interviews, referrals through
their department, and so forth - the only things that they could do that
I couldn't set up myself. I don't really know what I can do about this.
I'm not going to have my SSN on every resume/data sheet they send outon
me, but I'm having a hard time realizing that this is how far bureaucracy
has gone, at least at this midwestern state school. 

Opinions appreciated.

Johanna Draper
jdraper@andy.bgsu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:20:56 GMT

In article <218@complex.complex.is> frisk@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) writes:
>
>In article <93020.095246MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>>I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>>85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>>they even talk to you.  What for?
>
>Now, this may seem like a silly question to some of you, but....
>
>   ...why are so many people in the US opposed to the use of a single
>   personal identification number, which would be used by everybody - all
>   companies and government organizations ?
>
i think france had lots of records on it's citizens in wwii and the nazis 
came in and said...how nice...lets see who is jewish.  i think since then 
france passed very strict laws concerning lists and id numbers which can be
used as a key to ALL records.  point is...you get databases going on people
and they WILL be abused...by someone or some dept or group somewhere.
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,ca.driving,misc.consumers,misc.legal
From: coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman)
Subject: Am I being sleazed by this insurance company?
Reply-To: coleman@twinsun.com
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 22:04:55 GMT

I applied for auto insurance yesterday and I'm trying to decide whether I've
been sleazed.  I share an apartment with two women not otherwise related to me
(i.e., they're basically strangers).  The insurance company informed me that
if I didn't put them on my policy, they would exclude all coverage for them as
drivers on the vehicle.  I'm not thrilled with this, but I agreed to do this
since I have no intention of letting either of the women drive the vehicle.

Now for the sleazy part.  Even though they are excluded, the insurance company
wanted to have their driver's license numbers.  The agent said something about
the company wanting these because they are of the opposite sex.  Apparently
what is being insinuated is that because I'm male and they are female, I'm
more likely to defraud the company by allowing my roommates to drive and
claiming I was at the wheel if an accident occurs.

I don't feel that this information is any of the company's business (given the
ironclad exclusion I signed), nor any of mine for that matter.  At this point,
I'm telling the company I won't give them the license numbers.

Is the insurance company's behavior improper?  Illegal?  Would all companies
ask for this, or did I just find a dud?

Mike

-- 
--Mike Coleman (coleman@cs.ucla.edu), Lord High Executioner of Anhedonia-----
         It could be worse--you could be bicycling in Florida.
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3088 ca.driving:2885 misc.consumers:22596 misc.legal:23371
From: johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,ca.driving,misc.consumers,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Am I being sleazed by this insurance company?
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:54:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Mike Coleman (coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu) wrote:
: I applied for auto insurance yesterday and I'm trying to decide whether I've
: been sleazed.  I share an apartment with two women not otherwise related to me
: (i.e., they're basically strangers).  The insurance company informed me that
: if I didn't put them on my policy, they would exclude all coverage for them as
: drivers on the vehicle.  I'm not thrilled with this, but I agreed to do this
: since I have no intention of letting either of the women drive the vehicle.
: -----------------------------
Do your roomies have their own cars? If they do and have their own insurance
then you are covered. The best way is to get everyone insured with the same
company to prevent finger pointing between different carriers. My insurance
even states that "Other drivers are insured if rated on another policy with
us".

John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: smith@NCoast.ORG (Phil Smith)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Reply-To: smith@ncoast.org (Phil Smith)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 04:59:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.privacy

As quoted from <1jlqk3INNeqg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron):
+---------------
| 
| blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
|  
|  
| > SSNs are dangerous things.
|  
| > With a name and SSN, I can find out a whole lot about you really fast.
| > I can find out where you live, where you have lived in the past, I can
| > check your entire credit history, find out your criminal records, down to
| > the tiniest traffic violations, etc. etc.
|  
| QUESTION:  HOW?
|  
Answer: post your SSN and someone will post all
the info found as a demo for you.
-- 
"If you had left when these credits began you would be home be now."
*** [Speed enforced by] RADAR for your protection ***
From: dsteinbe@nmsu.edu (David Steinberg)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:48:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Mexico State University

In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan26133717@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
>>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Tobias <tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil> writes:
>
>Steve>     I thought New Jersey had the highest auto insurance rates in the
>Steve> entire country. Also, how would PA and NY drivers registering in NJ
>Steve> cost NJ drivers money? If anything, I would think NJ would benefit
>
>NJ's a lot cheaper than Philadelphia, and I would suspect NYC.  There's a
>big difference from registering your car in the middle of nowhere, PA, and
>Philadelphia in terms of pricing.
>

Then why don't these people drive a hundred miles and register their
car there?  After all, the cops are only looking for New Jersey
plates...

-David "ZZYZX" Steinberg- King of the ellipses
       (dsteinbe@emmy.nmsu.edu)
**********************************************************************
*"Swim with the cactus and      *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a *
* Float with the stone.         * film major, when all I really      *
* I try to convey what          * wanted in this life was to marry a *
* She's trying to condone."     * lobsterman and cook fish."         *
* -Phish                        * -a letter from Christie Searing    *
**********************************************************************
From: sean@cobra.dra.com
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: License plates make you safer
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:16:44 CST
Organization: Data Research Associates, Inc.

In article <1jr6ilINNej1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron) writes:
> Summary:  license plates protect us by allowing us to identify
>           those who might do us harm with their vehicles.  Unlike
>           people on foot, cars tend to look a lot more alike, and
>           with the possible exception of my car, they can run
>           away a lot faster. :-(

Then why don't we require people to wear football jerseys with their
name and number on their back whenever they are in public :-)

How far will you go to feel secure?  And will it actually make you safer?

You may use a vehicle license plate to identify the vehicle that did you
harm.  It can also be used by someone who wishes to do you harm.  You may
have read news stories of "stalkers" using registration records to find
the homes of people with whom they are obsessed.

While most of us may feel they don't much to fear from stalkers there are
other ways license plates can be used, perhaps against you.  The next time
you consider trading your automoble in at a car dealership remember, in
many states you can find out the name of the titleholder (the name of the
bank, or finance company if you are making payments) from the license
plate number.  The car dealer then can contact the finance company to find
out how much you still owe on the car (possibly prior to making you an
offer).  Oh, but you scoff, that would never happen.  Unfortunately, banks
and finance companies consider car dealerships much more important customers
than you or me.  One bank in Florida just installed a rather elaborate voice
response computer system that allows car dealers to find the loan balance
in less than 65 seconds 95% of the time.  And the state of Florida, being
rather progressive, sells access to its vehicle registration records via
TYMNET.  So in the time it takes for you to walk into the automoble show
room, the car dealer may already know how much car you can afford to buy.

So do you still feel safer driving around with a license plate on your
car.  Perhaps, unless you happen to be a police officer.  Many states feel
that having the registration records of police officers' cars publicly
available is too dangerous.  It makes me wonder, if it makes police
officers scared, perhaps it is something that you and I should be
concerned about.

Oh, by the way, I hope you don't get run over by a U.S. Postal truck.  They
don't have to any license plates on their vehicles.

There are many sides to every issue.  No system so perfect that it 
couldn't use some improvement.
-- 
Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
Domain: sean@sdg.dra.com, Voice: (Work) +1 314-432-1100
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,misc.taxes
From: geoff@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Geoffrey Kuenning)
Subject: Re: NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:58:17 GMT

In article <93025.084650MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath,
CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:

> one, they take the number down and cross reference it with tax and voting
...
>   I guess NJ doesn't believe in sleep-over dates, visiting relatives, or
> travelling for fun/business.  The fine is something like $5000.  They only
> targeted wealthy areas and expensive cars.  I guess they didn't want to
> waste their time on small fry.

Since they take the trouble to cross-reference, I'd say they *do*
believe in overnight visits of various sorts, and are trying to weed
those out from the true violators before leveling an accusation.

As to expensive cars versus small fry, I'd suspect that most of the
small fry are less likely to be able to afford the ancillary costs of
out-of-state registration.  Plus there's an efficiency question in all
law-enforcement decisions.
-- 
	Geoff Kuenning	geoff@maui.cs.ucla.edu	geoff@ITcorp.com