HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark stephens <stephens@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Survey/Questions : Who's out there?
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A73129C73201EC3D@mstephens.gsfc.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:23:51 GMT
Organization: NASA/GSFC
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:22:27 GMT

In article <Bxwqyq.GBA@ulowell.ulowell.edu> Jeff Keegan,
jkeegan@cs.ulowell.edu writes:
>Hi.. I'm also not a big poster to rec.games.pinball but read it every
once in
>a while.. I started reading it again today (which reminded me to go play
again
>soon by the way.. :)  ) and I finally decided to ask a few of the
questions 
>that have always nagged at me..
>
>  1. Who are most of you that know a lot about pinball?  Are most of the
>     people out there just ordinary people like me that just have
pinball as
>     a hobby, or are a lot of you ever working with the machines?  I see
a lot
>     of specific info that people post about specific machines and I
can't
>     help thinking that many people out there must work for a pinball
machine
>     company or at least an arcade that lets them work with the machines.
>     Am I right on this?  I mean this IS usenet, and I was just curious
what
>     portion of the people with usenet access had actual
"working-experience"
>     with the insides of the machines..

     I'm just getting back into pinball after, oh, 20 years.  And no, I
did not start playing as soon as I could stand.

>
>  2. (again this is COMPLETE curiosity) What age are most of the people
on this
>     group?

38, yes, all folks in this group are 38.  

>
>and lastly
>
>  3. How many of you actually own (or have owned at some time) legit.
pinball
>     machines in your home?  By legit, I mean pinball machines of the
quality
>     found in arcades (not some Sears toy).. I've always said that if I
have
>     kids someday I'm probably going to buy one of my favorite pinball
machines
>     for them (ha!.. for ME) or maybe a real air-hockey table, and I'm
curious
>     how many people actually have them..


Oh God how I'm trying to get a pinball of my very own.  I must have one,
will have one... problem is, the ones I play now (TAF, Fish tales, ...) I
can't justify owing (not at $2500 on up!)  and the ones that are $800 or
below, I've never played so don't know if I want them.  What a fun delima!

I too am curious as to how one attains the wisdom of how to fix a pinball
machine.  My approach is to get one and see what happens.  It will break
and hopefully I'll be able to get it fixed.  Any hints on books would be
greatly appreciated.

    mark
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:18:36 GMT

oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day) writes:

>Well, in a manner of speaking, they are the only ones.  Look at
>the 1-2-3 on HSII and the targets to open multiball on Dr Who.
>Not drops, but the same idea.

No, No, No! They have to be REAL drop targets...they have to
throw their little hands up, scream "agghh!" and drop out of
sight.

Just dropping out of sight is also acceptable.... :)

BTW, I am the first player on this particular cue ball wizard
to get the half-billion shot. Oh ho ho ho.

I did NOT, however, make the high scores list. Oh boo hoo hoo.

Josh

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
Let's talk about your car. It's screaming, "Wash me please!"
From: kahlerm@sumax.seattleu.edu (Michael Kahler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Who's out there?
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:06:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.5843
Distribution: na
Organization: Seattle University

> p.s.  Is anyone else out there ever haunted by the sing chime
>       "Moooooore pinball... shoooot again!"?  (from Time Machine, I think)
>
>/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
>| Jeff Keegan            | Republicans understand the importance of bondage |
>|=--==--==--==--==--==--=| between a mother and child.                   |
>| jkeegan@cs.ulowell.edu |             -- Vice President Dan Quayle      |
>\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
 
Well no, I'm not haunted by that one but mabye:
	"Yoooou Win a Gaaaaaaaame!"
or:
	"Jaaaaaaack-POT!"

Time Machine it is, I think one of DE's firsts.
 	"Far out!"
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Cheaper games make more $$$
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:54:13 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 2463@cnsvax.uwec.edu, mahalkdp@cnsvax.uwec.edu () writes:
>
>What if a company such as Bally/Midway comes out with a very nice machine, and
>runs on dimes instead of quarters? In my opinion, more people would play it
>because of the lower game cost... so much so, that people would actually spend
>*more* money on it than other games.

But arcades are equipped to deal with quarters (or 25 cent tokens),
so in the U.S. at least I don't think operators would go for it.
I'd just be happy if I could find a recent game which was set for
a quarter a play.

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
From: tock@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (roy tock            )
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:05:35 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu
Keywords: side pocket

I have a few ideas about CBW that are very likely erroneous; please confirm 
their veracity.

(1) The 'side pocket' target(s) are the green targets immediately *above*
    the white targets in the center of the field.  (I've never seen targets 
    *above* the ball's level before--wow!)

(2) These targets also shoot the 8-ball while in multiball mode and 9-ball 
    mode.

(3) There is absolutely no shot that will hit these targets consistently;
    you just shoot the ball toward the horseshoe and hope it bounces and 
    hits one of the green targets.

I would be very grateful if somebody would clue me in on a method by which
I could personally disprove idea (3), especially if (1) and (2) are 
correct!

I find that the outlanes are *extremely* easy to nudge a ball out of, and
that this game is a prime example of score inflation running amok.  I still
have fun with the game, though--I like the high number of shots to hit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--rOY                                              tock@studsys.mscs.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: phaedrus@halcyon.com (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 07:51:12 GMT

In article <By365E.J4I.1@cs.cmu.edu> dstewart+@cs.cmu.edu (David B Stewart) writes:
>If scoring is well balanced, then I agree that the score inflation doesn't
>really make a difference.  However, score inflation like on Bride of Pinbot is
>out of hand.  A local bar just got a new one (how many years is this after it
>was released? :-( ).  The high scores were approximately the following:  
>1) 1,011,000,000   2) 1,004,000,000   3) 132,000,000   4) 23,000,000.
>Having not seen any of the games played, I get the feeling that the person who
>has the 3rd highest score had a much better game than those with the first two
>highest scores; but just because he/she did not get the billion shot, he/she 
>is not merited with a high score.

     I agree with your point, but you've chosen a bad example.  The fact that
the billion shot was a bit out of line with the rest of the scoring was
obviously not lost on the designers; that's why they put in *two* high score
boards.  There's a "Billionaire Club" board, for the top twenty games where the
billion shot was hit; and a regular board (Grand Champion + 4 regular slots)
for games without a billion shot.  If you see a 10-digit score on the regular
high score board, they must have *seriously* earned it, because that would
mean they did it without the billion shot...  (Actually, I'm not sure which
board it would put the score on in that situation.)
-- 
\o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com  (Seattle, WA Public Access Unix)     \o\
 \o\ "How'd you like to move a few steps down the food chain, pal?"       \o\
  \o\ If you enjoy fantasy/SF stories with transformation themes, email me \o\
   \o\ for a copy of the Transformation Stories List.                       \o\
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:45:51 -0500 
From: Paul Leonard Sonier <ps2i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request

Just to clarify...

People don't seem to be noticing the most recent game I've seen with a drop
target, which is:  Fish Tales, of course!  Of course, it's easy to forget,
since the drop target in front of the caster's club starts off down...

Also, has anyone else noticed a pronounced similarity between FT and T2?
Reverse FT's playfield, and they're basiclly functionally similar, what with
the ramps to other flipper, loop to lock, loop to flipper, and drop target
protected lock shot.  Are the folks at Williams getting lazy?  Hmmmm....

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Subject: Re: High Speed II split personality
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:37:45 GMT

chupchup@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Robert Earl) writes:

>My goal, when multiball first starts, is to hit only -one- ball
>(ideally, the first) into the Supercharger, and to use the other two
>for useful shots while the one ball is bopping around and I'm waiting
>for the jackpot to light.

Interesting. MY goal, if anyone cares by now, is one of the two
remaining possibilities: hit the first TWO balls into the supercharger.
Alert readers will note that if this done briskly, you can shoot the
three balls thusly: supercharger, supercharger, jackpot, backhand
superchanger, backhand supercharger, trap, super jackpot. Lather,
rinse, repeat.

The hard part is getting the two rapid backhands to go. On the
machine that USED to be up the street, as the two balls came racing
down the tube toward the left inlane, a brisk *whap* of the game
as the first ball hit the downturn would separate the two balls
nicely.....ah, elastic collisions....

>Heh.  "He went in the tunnel... HEY! LOOKOOOOOUUUUUUUUU..."
>	"Choppers, are you out there?"

Boy, it's hard to find good help these days....I mean, the guy
is driving down the road, the road goes through a tunnel - where
do they THINK he's gonna take that Ferrari? I agree about the
score, however....something easily lost in the shuffle....

Josh

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
Let's talk about your car. It's screaming, "Wash me please!"
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:12:17 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7342C7E40035C5D@joe.gsfc.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Sat, 21 Nov 92 23:12:14 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <LFS.92Nov19232546@arcadia.mitre.org> Lyman F. Sheats Jr.,
lfs@mitre.org writes:
>I don't see why everyone seems to be all bent out of shape and all hyper
>about point inflation.  Who cares?  I hear all the time: "I really enjoy
>playing game X, but it's really point inflated."  How do a few extra digits
>in a score make a game more or less fun?  I guess I just don't understand.

It has nothing to do with how fun the game is.  It just seems like a
presumption on the part of the pin manufacturers that we are all idiots and
will get really excited by the fact that this new game X scores more points
then any other before it.  It just comes across as being stupid and I don't
like things that are stupid.  I still play games like this (I play TAF and FT
like everybody else), but I find the scoring annoying.  I'd rather not be
annoyed, so I'd just as well see the "point inflation" stop.

Steve
------------------------
jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dstewart+@cs.cmu.edu (David B Stewart)
Subject: Re: Inflated scores
Organization: The Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:29:36 GMT

In article <1eqmk4INN7a7@iraul1.ira.uka.de> s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>In article <5904@sumax.seattleu.edu> kahlerm@sumax.seattleu.edu (Michael Kahler) writes:
>>Hey, atleast BOP allowed for some distinction, eg. the billionares club.   
>
>IMHO is BoP more of an especially bad example. Seen from your view, it
>makes a distinction between 'players who reached one certain shot' and
>'all the others'. What good is this for?

On a similar tone, what about Fish Tales keeping track of the person with the
maximum number "Rock-the-boats" and most "tales told".  What is the purpose of
this?  How much longer before they keep track of every shot; e.g. on FT they
could have also had number of jackpots; number of monster fish; number of LIEs;
number of fast casts, number of extra balls, etc.  

I don't find those individual shot leaders very useful, (although it easily
impresses someone who doesn't know much about pinball to see your initials up
there :-) ).  If these manufacturers want to start keeping information like
that, then I would rather know how many rock-the-boats, tales told, etc. that
the person with the highest score got; maybe a statistics page when showing the
highest scores??  At least with that information would give us a feel for how
the high score on the machine was achieved, and maybe get us to rethink our
strategy.  On one local FT, the person with the most rock-the-boats was not in
the high scorer list, so all I know is that the people with the high scores did
it without getting the most rock-the-boats, which isn't telling me much.

~dave
From: s892031@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Pumpkin Power)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Rule Sheets
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:24:03 GMT

I've seen quite a few requests for rule sheets here lately, and wouldn't
mind getting hold of some myself, however the only one I've ever actually
seen posted is for TAF.  Are there others around (is there an official
r.g.p. FTP site?).  I'd be happy to have a go at writing up rule sheets
for T2 and HS2 if they don't already exist.  Hell, I'll even throw in
the Star Trek rules sheet for free....

Shoot the Transporter!  Shoot the transporter!

Peter Barton : s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: juggler@netcom.com (Chris Calande)
Subject: Bride Billionaire's club
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:28:20 GMT

I just recently found a Bride of Pinbot machine.  I had never played it before
so I was anxious to give it a try.  What a great machine!  Anyway, on my
second play I topped the Billionaire club.  Is this a big deal?  I mean it's
probably not, but I didn't really know what the heck was going on.

I always seem to do really well the first time I play a machine...and then
when I know what to shoot for, my game goes to hell until I've invested a 
fortune in the machine.

--Scott C. DeFreitas
juggler@netcom.netcom.com
From: poulin@acsu.buffalo.edu (Marc C. Poulin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Sorcerer info wanted
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:06:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo, Comp. Sci. & Philosophy

I recently picked up a 1985 Williams pin called Sorcerer.  It seems to be
in good working order.  I am looking for schematics and a manual for this
game.  The schematics faq didn't list this game, so I am asking here.
Thanks for your help...

Marc
From: bradam@twobits.Eng.Sun.COM (Brad Martinson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Flip-Out Finals ??
Date: 18 Nov 1992 00:17:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: twobits

Okay, I plowed thru 100 articles that had accumulated since I dashed off 
to Chicago, and still no-one has posted the final standings for Flip-Out
'92.  (We left on Sunday before the finals began...)

Great show - my first time there.  Nice tour of Premier Technology, good
seminars, plentiful parts & vendors, not enough woodrails.  There ya have
it in a nutshell :-)

SOMEONE must have written down the final 16 and kept track of the standings,
right?



-- 
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 | Brad Martinson, XWindows janitor   SunSoft,Inc   brad.martinson@sun.com |
 |    Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc   #include <std/disclaimers.h>  |
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From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: New games
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:39:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbootay.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov17.210402.4989@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen) writes:
>Thanks to Don Coons for describing these new games.
>And they're at my old favorite arcade 10 minutes away...
>
>Now -- WHY WEREN'T THESE GAMES AT EXPO?
>I went all four days, had a great time, learned a lot, met a lot
>of very important and very nice people.  Including the Gottlieb
>grandsons who told me about their forthcoming (!) WORLD TOUR.
>
>I'm surprised that all 4 pinmakers have new games, but only Premier's
>CUE BALL WIZARD was at Expo (it was all over the place, being the
>tournament machine).  Used to be there was always at least one
>not-yet-released game introduced at Expo.  CBW has been out for
>a few weeks already.
>
>Perhaps Gala North is being used as a Beta test site?  I always
>wondered whether it would -- gotta get back there and check it out.
>
>	knudsen@iexist.att.com


World Tour was supposed to be at expo but did not arrive.
I heard it was sold.  A. Gottlieb being small may have needed
the sale more than having the game at expo at this point.

Bly/Wms Creature.... and White Water were at the Galaxy arcade
(aka Gala North?) as was a proto DW.  That is where we went
to play during the Expo Banquet.


Creature is a crammed and Jammed playfield while WW is 
pretty open and basically a mutlitball/ramp game With
a terrific waterfall display.  I won't get into game details
as we did not really take the time to figure them out.

Suffice it to say that neither of these games seemed like anything
special; though they did not seem really bad either (at least
not with normal flippers)

DW on the other hand is IMHO another excellent game by WMS/BLY
and I enjoyed it thoroughly at EXPO. It's main flaw as shipped is
that it is not being shipped with the flippers that it was designed
for and the mini playfield may be a problem (mechanically) at times from
what I've seen and heard.  Though all I played at expo were fine.


The main thing I did find interesting in going to the Galaxy arcade was
that the flippers on DW, WW, and creature are the regular WMS long
flippers, not the lightning bolt 1/8th inch shorter flippers
that are showing up on Black Rose and Fish Tales as well as 
on DW.  This also means that the games are apparently designed for
the longer flippers and shipping with the shorter ones.

It should be very interesting to see which flipper is finally chosen.
Currently I find the large hole on Fish Tales and DW at the flippers
quite annoying.


			Regards,	Dallas...
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:37:48 GMT
Organization: VA Tech CS Dept., Blacksburg, VA, USA

Well, if you want more recent than T2, there's Hurricane.  The ducks on the
left.

There certainly aren't many "recent" games with drop targets.  Dr. Dude had
4 on the right side, which were quite a challenging shot.  (Well, they still
are, but the game is fairly old.)

keith
-- 
|//----------------------\\|  Do your  |"I heard it was exciting - just like  |
|/     Keith  Johnson     \|  eyes  a  |a spike in volleyball!"               |
|\CS Major--Pinball addict/|favor- PLAY|                                      |
|\\----------------------//| PINBALL!! |      - Kelly on "Saved By the Bell"  |
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.)
Subject: Pinball Expo Instructions
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:14:54 GMT

Ahem, well, I didn't think I'd be posting this, but after talking to
Rob Berk about the "Pinball Playing" seminar that Dave, Jon, myself,
Julia, and Rick were involved with at pinball expo, I wanted to get some
kind of feeling, from those people that were able to attend, as to what
everyone thought of it.

I have my own thoughts but I'm going to keep them to myself until I
hopefully get some responses.

I'd like people to be as detailed as possible -- what was good, what was
bad, what could have been allocated more time, less time, etc. (but I will
also cheerfully accept short messages that say "It was good," "It was OK,"
or "It sucked big time").  I'd also like people to make suggestions as to
what they would like to see in future years, should this type of thing be
held again.

For those who didn't go to Expo, but are interested in improving their
level of play, I'd be interested in hearing the types of things you'd want
to learn.  What skills are you most interested in improving?  What skills
are you comfortable with?  Do you find that you're more interested in
watching reasonably skilled players play and asking questions as the player
plays, or is everyone more interested in asking specific questions, like
"can you demonstrate the bang back," and then having the player demonstrate
the technique.  Or something else, maybe?

This informal survey may seem silly to a lot of people, but after taking
a look at the number of people that attended the seminar, a lot of people
seem to be interested in improving their play.

I also know this "survey" is really on the vague side -- it was designed
that way.  Don't worry about being too detailed or to terse -- I'll accept
anything, as long as it's honest.

Obviously, I'd prefer e-mail :-).

Thanks.

--
Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
The MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road, Bedford MA 01730
email: lfs@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sgsimon@srv.PacBell.COM (Steve Simon)
Subject: Looking For Pachinko Balls
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:26:54 GMT

I posted this once before, but got no response.  I'm sure SOMEONE
out there knows the answer, so please help me out if you can.

I'm looking for a source for pachinko balls.  You know, those small
metal balls (~1/4" diameter) that are used in the Japanese variant
of pinball, pachinko machines.  A friend of mine just picked up one
of these games, without any balls, and I'd like to suprize him by
finding some for him.

I remember this was discussed sometime earlier this year, and I 
even remember seeing a mail-order address posted, but unfortunately
I didn't save it.

If you have any info on this, please post, or mail it to me.

-Thanks a bunch.   Steve Simon   sgsimon@pacbell.com


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Simon	  					San Ramon,
Pacific*Bell						California