HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Subject: Re: Lois McMaster Bujold - recommendations?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:51:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug11.020440.18295@microsoft.com> ericsa@microsoft.com (Eric Sassaman) writes:
>I just finished Bujold's _Falling Free_. I was very impressed. However I was
>disappointed with _Brothers In Arms_. I'd like to try some more Bujold but
>perhaps stay away from her Vorkosigan (sp?) novels. I've seen good words
>about _Warrior's Apprentice_... any other recommendations of Bujold's works?
>Thanks in advance!

If you don't like *Miles* Vorkosigan, you have four options; if you don't
like *any* Vorkosigan including Cordelia and Aral, you have two.
(*The Warrior's Apprentice* is a Miles Vorkosigan novel, BTW.)

Main characters:

Cordelia Naismith & Aral Vorkosigan   *Shards of Honor*
                                      *Barrayar* (Miles is a fetus)
                                     
Ethan of Athos                        *Ethan of Athos*
Elli Quinn                           
(Miles's lover; Miles himself
is offstage.)
                                     
Forthcoming in hardcover:
                        
A fantasy novel whose name escapes me.  This is presumably
totally unrelated to Bujold's Vorkosigan milieu.            
-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company
"It seems to us that the readers who want fiction to be like life are
considerably outnumbered by those who would like life to be like fiction."
From: pwestlak@eoe.co.uk (Peter Westlake)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:30:23 GMT
Organization: EO Europe Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

K42@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Monika Best) writes:
: In article <w+8mmkk@quantum.on.ca>
: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs) writes:
: 
: >>   Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
: >>   contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
: >>   accurate?
: >>
: >The covers of Terry Pratchet's disc world novels.  They are not neccessarily
: >accurate, but they do suggest the right style.
: 
: Do you mean the original UK covers by Josh Kirby, which are just great,
: -- Moni

Tom Holt's books (Expecting Someone Taller, etc) have just been reissued
with Josh Kirby covers instead of the original very tasteful ones, which
reflected the style and contents of the books. Kirby's covers do reflect
the contents, but the style is more suited to seaside postcards or Tom
Sharpe than Tom Holt.  Anyone know a good book re-covering service? :-)
(on second thoughts, I don't think that's allowed...)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Peter M Westlake                        EO Computer Ltd.,
Tel: +223-843131                        Abberley House,  Granhams Road,
Fax: +223-843032                        Great Shelford,
email:  pwestlak@eoe.co.uk              Cambridge CB2 5LQ,   England
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes)
Subject: Re: >>>>SEX<<<< and Tolkien
In-reply-to: jc@crosfield.co.uk's message of 18 Aug 92 13:26:41 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
	<RSHOLMES.92Aug17183952@rodan.syr.EDU> <15176@suns6.crosfield.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:16:47 EDT

In article <15176@suns6.crosfield.co.uk> jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford) writes:

>In article <RSHOLMES.92Aug17183952@rodan.syr.EDU> rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes) writes:
>"As for Tolkien, how much sex was there in *anything* being published
>"by mainstream publishers in the 1940s and 1950s? He & his publisher
>"were products of their time. Even so, there's at least one rape and
>"one case of incest in _The Silmarillion_ and/or _Unfinished Tales_.
>
>..Neither of which, as far as I can remember, were published until
>relatively recently? 1970s or 1980s?

If this comment is meant to correct the mistaken impression I might
have given that _The Silmarillion_ and _Unfinished Tales_ were
published in the 40's and 50's -- you're right; I think the dates were
1977 and 1981, or something like that. I should have worded that more
carefully.

If it was intended to mean that since they were published in the 70's
and 80's, their sexual (non-)content should be compared to other works
published in the 70's and 80's, not the 40's and 50's, that's ludicrous.

Tolkien wrote from before 1920 to the late 60's or early 70's; most of
_The Silmarillion_ and _Unfinished Tales_ were written, albeit maybe
not in final form, by the late 1950s.
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Accurate covers (was Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover)
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:30:25 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu


	Some covers which were mostly accurate:

	The covers for Hambly's "Darwath" trilogy (The Time of the Dark,
The Walls of Air, the Armies of Daylight).

	The covers for Daley's Floyt/Fitzhugh books (Requiem for a Ruler of
Worlds, Jinx on a Terran Inheritance, Fall of the White Ship Avatar)


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:27:15 GMT

In article <darknite.714024022@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>SPOILERS

>You mean the bit about the Riselka?  It means that of Devin,
>Baerd, and Sandre, one of them will die, one is blessed, and
>one's life will fork.  This from the poem that Dianora
>understood.
>This was one of the _few_ parts of the book that I didn't like,
>because none of them, IMHO, deserved to die.

Well, how I interpreted it, after and before going, "Huh?":

Sandre is old, so will die.
Baerd will marry Elena, so is blessed.
Devin seemed to be uncertain about what to do with his life (although we all
know he's going to end up with what's-her-name), so his life will fork.

But I'm not sure if that was what was intended.

One of the things I liked about it was that the chief "evil guy" wasn't
really all that evil, and a lot of the main characters did not have a happy
ending.  So I'm not sure if my interpretation of the ending was all that
accurate.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hoahosth@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (ANDREA HOSTH)
Subject: Re: Storm Constantine
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:47:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.062616.10632@u.washington.edu> mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:
>From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)

> What is the general opinion of Storm Constatine's work? I have read the
>american edition of her Wraethu trilogy and managed to import a copy of
>Hermetech from Canada. I like her style a lot myself.

Um. Well, I've read part of the Wraethu trilogy and "Hermetech". Both of 
these novels shared a similar feature: although I neither liked the 
protagonist particularly, or was otherwise enarmored by her style, imagery, 
or anything else, I found myself reading these book to the very end in a 
very short time. However, nothing has made me want to go and get the rest of 
the Wraethu trilogy. (For one thing, this replace women and make men 
androgynous theme really started to piss me off about halfway through the 
novel. It went into a kind of fantasy trip for the rampant homosexual 
misogynist (IMHO) and just irritated me beyond words. [Birth made easier, 
prettier, yet *so much harder* all at the same time. Geez.])

Anyway. I'd rate it in the upper average for readibility. A low high for 
originality. This woman really likes to link sex and magic, doesn't she?

Ankh
From: solaris@cats.ucsc.edu (Sheree Lynn Kibby)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Star of the Guardians (was Re: Death Gate Cycle)
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:54:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes:


>>BTW, If you haven't read it already, I'd avoid Weis' solo "Guardians" 
>>series.  IMHO it was a bit of a bore (even though I stuck it out to the 
>>end).

>I'll have to disagree here. IMHO, the Star of the Guardians series is the best
>that Weiss has done to date.  It's a well written series with very well developed characters and since reading them I've wished that she would go back
>to writing stuff like that.  By herself if that's what it takes to put out
>quality books.


>Ted "Theodore" Ko  			E-Mail: ted@athena.mit.edu

I agree with Ted. The Star of the Guardians series kept me guessing for quite
a while.  She played with the characters quite a bit and did a lot of unexpected
things to it.  I won't mention more otherwise it would destroy the surprise.
If anyone would like to see something like fantasy and science fiction combined,
I recommend Margaret Weis' "Galactic Fantasy" series (as she calls it).  
It isn't technical for those of you like me who can't seem to get into the more
involved stories of science fiction.  It was a very good job on the part of 
Weis.  


Sheree Kibby	
solaris@cats.UCSC.edu	
CIS/CE Department		
"Revolver of Worlds"
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:21:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.86695
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: ceg@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Chris Galas)

>kwilliam@maclab01.seas.ucla.edu (William Kuan) writes:

>>       Any recommendations on fantasy books involving dragons?

Try JRR Tolkien THE HOBBIT.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bp494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dana Goldblatt)
Subject: Re: Epic fantasy
Reply-To: bp494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dana Goldblatt)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:06:28 GMT


I like Tanith Lee's epic fantasy.  She has written
several series: one begins with The Birthgrave, another
with Night's Master.  The third (I think) contains The Storm
Lord and another book.  I may have some of these mixed up.
(Not at home right now.)
-dana
From: wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!grh@cactus.org (G R Hail)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Tuchman (was Re:Moties are)
Date: 22 Aug 1992 09:13:30 -0500
Organization: The SMOF-BBS: Science Fiction Online Since 1985 [512-467-7317]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Mary Kuhner says
>
Barbara Tuchmann's _A Distant Mirror_ is a good 
look at pre-industrial England and what made it 
tick, and is as good a picture of an alien
society as you're likely to find in SF.
>

Barbara Tuchman's _A Distant Mirror_ is a good 
look at 14th century _France_ and neighboring 
countries, in so far as they affected her "life 
& times" biography of the book's focus: 
Enguerrand de Coucy

GRH

----
ProLine:  grh@pro-smof
Internet: grh@pro-smof.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-smof!grh
ARPA:     crash!pro-smof!grh@nosc.mil
From: singh@tangerine_dream.Central.Sun.COM (Bhupinder Khanna Sun Cleveland)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Novels
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:46:44 GMT
Reply-To: singh@tangerine_dream.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Another superb trilogy you may want to read is Jack Vance's Lyonesse. The 3 books are

	Lyonesse
	Green Pearl
	Madouc

IMO these are epic quality and also tie very nicely into Authurian legends.

Some other books that are also good are:

	Terry Brooks 5+ set:
		Sword of Shanara
		ElfStones of Shanara
		Wishsong of
		Druid of
		Elf Queen of

The first book is very similar to Tokiens LOTR, but after that, Brooks does his own thing.

Janny Wurts/Raymond Feist also wrote a few books set in the Riftwar universe:
		Servant, Daughter, and Mistress of the Empire.

If you would like any more detailed info, let me know and I can post it.

Singh


                   ___
       ___....-----'---`-----....___
 ========================================= Singh Khanna, Sun Cleveland
        ___`---..._______...---'___	   skhanna@central.sun.com    
       (___)      _|_|_|_      (___)       3 Summit Park Dr. Suite 400
         \\____.-'_.---._`-.____//         Independence, OH 44131		  
           ~~~~`.__`---'__.'~~~~	   (216) 642-5900/642-4218 fax 
                   ~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:47:01 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <CKD.92Aug16030612@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>David> == David Gibbs <dagibbs@quantum.on.ca> 
>
> David> The first few Vlad Taltos novels by Steven Brust -- Jhereg,
> David> Yendi, Teckla, Taltos.
>
>Accurate?  ACCURATE?  Vlad has a *mustache*.  Show me the mustache in
>the cover art... but the jheregs were well done.

Sorry, you're right.  Major brainslip there.  I had forgotten that
he was "whiskers".  I guess they aren't accurate, but they were still
nice art, and at least, consistent with each other in style.

-David Gibbs
(dagibbs@quantum.on.ca)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11052 rec.arts.sf.science:2483
From: jrbd@craycos.com (James Davies)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:04:52 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <gapdrr.713727865@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> gapdrr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Daniel R T Rothman) writes:
>evolution IS catching up with us...  The upper echelons of the industrialized
>societies have a non-replacement birth rate. The majority of population 
>growth in first-world countries is coming from lower-income large families,
>and many of these are relatively immune to economic pressures, because these
>large families are subsidized by governments.

This isn't evolution.  Income isn't genetically determined; just
because you're poor doesn't mean that your children will be poor.  Also,
the current events are happening over much too short a time scale to
constitute a real change in the human race.  The relative proportions of
different ethnic groups might be changing, but that's different than saying
that the human race is evolving.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Diane Duane-Door into Sunset
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:22:30 GMT

In article <9208140323.AA04230@atlantis>, lola@LUCID.COM (Lola McCrary) writes:

> 
> 	goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
> 	>lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard) writes:
> 	>>Hmm.  Diane Duane didn't sneak _Door Into Sunset_ out when I wasn't
> 	>>looking, did she?  Nah, that's in the list of books that will appear
> 	>>when _Last Dangerous Visions_ freezes ov-- uh, is published.
> 	
> 	>>Well, uh, yes. Actually she did. It's a British edition and _Locus_
> 	>doesn't list an American edition in its list of upcoming books but, it
> 	>*is* out. (By the time I heard about it, Dark Carnival was sold out,
> 	>blast it.)
> 
> I got one before they sold out.  Not *terribly* expensive for a British import:
> about $10.00, I believe.  Well worth it.  Her experience as a novelist shows,
> and the book is wonderful.  Her characters are still the same (I was a little
> worried about that because of the number of years since the last one), and many
> of her favorite themes about life, the universe and everything (opps, wrong
> author :-)) are inserted nicely.  The book kept me guessing about where she was
> going and I loved it!!
> 
> And the good news is that at the end she says there will be more of them.  It's
> not just a triology anymore, folks!!

Does Door into Sunset comes immediately after Door Into Shadow, or are there
any books between the two?  I noticed that Door Into Shadow was (c) 1983, so
there must be some books that I missed out.

Regards.

#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
|  W.H.Watt                        #  JANET:                                   |
|  Dept. of Accounting & Finance   #           w.h.watt@uk.ac.strath.vaxa      |
|  University of Strathclyde       #  Rest of the World:                       |
|  Glasgow                         #           w.h.watt@vaxa.strath.ac.uk      |
|  United Kingdom                  #                                           |
#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jvb7u@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jon Brinkmann)
Subject: Re: Gardens of Rama as paperback in the UK?
Reply-To: jvb7u@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jon Brinkmann)
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:53:09 GMT

In article <VW15ZZG@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de>,
dirk@kalium.physik.tu-berlin.de (Dirk Schwarzhans) writes:
> Hallo,
> 
> does anyone know, if the book "Gardens of Rama" (A.C. Clarke) is
> available as paberback in the UK or the US?

I checked a few weeks ago at Waldenbooks.  They're educated guess is
that the paperback edition will be out in time for Christmas.

Jon
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:52:47 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unfair Tests (mild spoiler for Jaran)

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 22-Aug-92 Unfair Tests (mild
spoiler .. Dani Zweig@netcom.com (1371)

> Tests whose right answers depend on the author's whim are among my
> least favorite plot devices.
[....]
> It happens all the time.  In one book the heroine passes a test by
> having enough faith to place her hand in an apparently hot fire.  In
> another book, the heroine passes a test by having enough brains not to.

    You err, IMHO, in looking at a biased sample in each case. The hero
/ heroine always guesses right, not because the answer can be logically
deduced from the situation, but because he in fact has the qualities the
tester is looking for. Which is to be expected, because otherwise the
author wouldn't have written in that scene.
    Put the heroine of your first example in the second book, and she'll
lose a hand. Presumably there are lots of people in that universe
wandering around with scarred stumps, but their stories aren't the ones
that get told.
    This sort of plot event is particularly annoying because it
punctures the pleasant illusion that *I* could be the protagonist of
this book, *I* could make all the right choices and win the glory. Well,
tough; in one of the two books described above, you would screw up. One
can't have every important character strength in every situation,
because they contradict. But I don't think this is a flaw in the books.
    
> In one book the hero is put to a test which will result in his death
> if he fails to obey orders under pressure.  In another, the same hero
> triumphs by ignoring orders.  

    This is more objectionable, since it's the same hero. There would
have to be clues in the situation indicating which is the right choice.
Is this example from some book, or are you just describing the sort of
thing that annoys you?

> At least back when you got turned to stone if you didn't help the
> old lady with her pack, or if you didn't feed the animals first,
> the 'right answer' was a matter of what was generally considered
> good behavior at the time, not of which side of the bed the author
> got up from.

Sometimes the tests are for ethical behavior, or logical analysis; in
these cases, I do flatter myself that I would make the right choices.
But there is no real difference between this and the situations above;
it's a matter of what I see myself as capable of doing.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11130 rec.arts.sf.science:2508
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:32:24 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <Bt01vz.L46@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W Lai) writes:
>In article <rwallace.713710067@unix1.tcd.ie> rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace) writes:
>>Again, this is true - but I think the original poster's point was that
>>genes for wanting to have as many children as possible are likely to
>>become more and more prevalent as time goes on, simply because people
>>who choose to have more children are going to have more surviving
>>offspring in the next generation.

>Genes don't tell us that though.  They just tell us to have sex, tricking us
>into reproducing.  So we'll end up with a planet full of sex maniacs.  :)

Sure they do.  Or at least they control how many children we have.
For example, twins tend to run in families.

>>Are there any effects that would counteract the genetic trend towards
>>wanting to have more children? (In the very long term.) Or is there some
>>flaw in the reasoning?

>How about birth control?

How will birth control effect the genetic trend towards wanting to
have more children?  After all, it is at least semi-voluntary even in China.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: salins@aix.rpi.edu (Sandra Ann Salinger)
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:04:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.143115.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>Dear fellow netters
>
>Greetings everyone!  I am new to this newsgroup.  Recently, I have acquired
>this (bad?) habit - actually more of an obssession - of reading epic
>fantasy bookss.  I wonder if anyone out there can give me some recommendation
>as to some *good* books.
>Any suggestions from anyome?

I can't tell if they'll match your tastes, or if they should properly be
called epic fantasy, but the Shannara series (well, two series by now), are
pretty good, in my opinion.  They start with _Sword_of_Shannara_, and  I
think there are 3 books in the first set, and at least that many in the
'Scions of Shannara' series that follows.  (They are written by Terry Brooks).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<ELIZ.92Aug11101316@peduncle.ai.mit.edu> <w+8mmkk@quantum.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 07:06:15 GMT

David> == David Gibbs <dagibbs@quantum.on.ca> 

 David> The first few Vlad Taltos novels by Steven Brust -- Jhereg,
 David> Yendi, Teckla, Taltos.

Accurate?  ACCURATE?  Vlad has a *mustache*.  Show me the mustache in
the cover art... but the jheregs were well done.
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
            ``Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep.
            Approach me that you might see.'' -- The Master