HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: us279764@mmm.serc.3m.com (Philip . Miller)
Subject: Stout Recipe Wanted!
Organization: 3M Company
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:40:40 GMT

Last year I brewed up a Raspberry Stout that my wife loved
and she's asked me to brew another batch.  This is the same
woman who gave me a King Kooker, G. Fix's book, AND a
subscription to New Brewer this year for my birthday so I
don't want to disappoint her.  [Gloat, gloat]

Anyway, the problem is that last year's batch was extract
based and I've recently made the switch to all-grain.  I
checked a bunch of back issues of Zymurgy, but all the 
recipes for award winning stouts appear to be Imperial
Stouts.  [NB:  All you stout-brewing-contest-entering
homebrewers]  It's MHO that an Imperial Stout would be too
overpowering for the raspberries.

I'd use Papazian's Toad Spit Stout recipe but I have a
confession to make:  I'm probably the only homebrewer in the
world that doesn't fall on the floor wriggling in gustatory
orgasmic bliss when I drink Guiness.  The roasted barley
is just a little to assertive for my admittedly weenie palatte.

So.  Does anybody have a good all grain recipe for a stout
that lies somewhere between a sweet stout and a dry stout or
should I just back off on the amount of roasted barley in
Papazian's recipe?

Phil
pmiller@mmm.com

Puh-leez!  No flames from the Guiness-lover crowd!!  I didn't
say that Guiness wasn't any good; I simply said that it wasn't
my favorite beer...                              

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp) Klumpp) (David Klumpp)
Subject: DME
Followup-To: rec.crafts.brewing
Organization: Northwestern U.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:13:39 GMT

	Thinking about the recent discussion of weird results with Laaglander, I
wonder if the cause lies in another recent thread.  Could Laaglander be one
of the  anonymous DMEs (from the Canadian studies) which is heavily cut
with dextrose?  When doing all-extract with Laag, my fermentations often
seem to stop ca. 1.020.  If Laag cuts with sugar, the yeast may run out of
nitrogen etc before completely fermenting.  This is consistent with another
observation with Laag-based brews:  a frequent residual sweetness.  My
ferments proceed more normally using Munton&Fison DME for all-extract.  The
Laag effect is suppressed when I do partial mashes.
	Munton&Fison must be sensitive to the findings of the Canadian study,
because the last M&F DME sack I purchased was labelled "100% malt extract."
 I wonder if we'll ever see a label like that on Laag.
	Of course, this is yet another reason to go all-grain!  With regard to
that, does anyone out there get 5-7 gal to boil on an electric stove?  I
want to know before I take the final plunge and buy a large kettle.  I live
in a high-rise, so getting a gas stove is impossible.

Dave

David Klumpp
Dept. Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Cell Biology
Northwestern Univeristy
2153 Sheridan
Evanston, IL 60208
klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:46:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9255
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1992Dec14.124545.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> atkinson@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>
>>perhaps there is something that we could all put in our .sig files
>>that would prohibit it being reposted on CI$
>
>>gob
>
>
>Let me suggest that we could go about this slightly differently.
>
>If we attach the following rider, it seems that commercial services
>will either not reproduce the rec.crafts.brewing postings since
>honoring our rider would cause violations of their ban,

Doubtful...what constitutes "honoring" your proposed rider?  It places
no restrictions on the reader, in fact its sole purpose is to disclaim
any supposed restrictions.  The Compuserve subscriber contract is what
it is, so your "may be" is to be interpreted as "it's OK with me", and
nothing more.  So I don't follow your logic.

>
>"This Posting is hereby placed in the public domain, and may be
>copied (manually or electronicly) freely from any location,
>including commercial services which have made copies".
>

I say let's drop it.  It seems peurile and pointless to try to figure
out ways of punishing Compuserve subscribers for a policy of their
provider, in the name of "fairness".  If spreading r.c.b. and HBD via
Compuserve can advance and promote the cract of brewing, and maybe help
somebody brew a better batch of beer, then more power to 'em.  After
all, a lot of us get to participate in these forums via news and
e-mail that are provided as free benefits by our organizations --
let's not take it for granted.  And those who do are paying out of
their own pockets are getting what they pay for regardless of whether
someone else derives benefit from it as well.

Nobody would insist that all readers of HBD be required to contribute
to the digest in order to receive it, right?  How much *less* sense does it
make to try to keep Compuserve subscribers from seeing our stuff, just
because they're contractually bound not to share theirs with us
(something that none of them is under any obligation to do in the
first place)?

That's how I see it, anyway.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: wolo@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Wolodkin)
Subject: Gleaming immersion chiller
Followup-To: rec.crafts.brewing
Keywords: should I worry? ;-)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 09:00:45 GMT

Greetings - 

Having put together an immersion wort chiller from 25' of copper 
tubing several weeks ago, I noticed the following: 

    1) the copper tubing oxidizes when not in use.. when it comes
       time to use it, it looks fairly dull and brownish, like 
       most copper pipes do.

    2) After chilling the wort, the copper comes out gleaming.

I clean the thing before and after use, and make sure to boil it
for a minute or two before chilling just to be sure.  My question
is this -- should I be worried about where the oxide coating
(that used to be on the surface of the chiller) ends up?

Or should I just relax and have a homebrew?  (Actually I'm more
curious than worried at this point..)

Thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions.

Greg Wolodkin			greg@bandit.berkeley.edu
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Xylitol info requested
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:37:20 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


So,

If I get my hands on some xylitol (or sorbitol) and want to use it to 
sweeten mead, wine, stout, etc. ...

what do I do?  How much do I use?  Handling/ingestion considerations?

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:21:00 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <1992Dec17.175304.15220@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov (andy rogers) writes:
|> the CO2 sort of protects you from airborne infectious particles. the general
|> flow of gas is away from the surface. this bubbler aeration method in an OPEN
|> vessel will cause a circulation of happenstance air above the wort. in a
|> CLOSED vessel you're still pumping outside air into the wort. unless you've
|> got some kind of filter between the outside air and that getting pumped into
|> the vessel, you're increasing the exposure to whatever infectious beasties are
|> in the fermenting area.
|> 
|> and now you've also got more equipment to sterilise, one piece of which is a
|> stone with a lot of teeny tiny holes in it. i just think it's way overkill
|> with way overhead.
|> 
|> there's more than beauty in simplicity.
|> 
|> aNDY
|> ----

The bubbler they offer has a filter, small enough to remove any nasties from
the air.  After thinking about it though, I'll stick to my current slosh
method.  Using more and more technology seems to flow against "Relax, don't
worry..."  I think I like the suggestion I saw earlier about strapping the
fermenter in your car and driving around for a while. Ha! Ha!  I could make
an I-40 ale, or NC state 54 stout, I love it!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Charlie Murray           CompuServe:  73707,1752
  Consulting at IBM        Internet:    73707.1752@compuserve.com

  NOTE:  If sending email use the addresses given in this .sig,
         not the one in the header of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: keithr@pathogen.med.umn.edu (Henry Keith Reding (Rogers))
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: fast fermentation
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:56:26 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Dec15.203239.13749@paladin.american.edu> you write:
>I am currently brewing my third batch of beer and I have a question.
>Is it reasonable for a high gravity beer to ferment completely in
>under 48 hours?  The reason I ask is that in my last batch (6 pounds
>canned extract, 2 pounds honey) and in my current batch 
>(10 pounds canned extract) the fermentation stopped after
>approximately 36 hours.
>
>Both batches started out with a tremendous initial fermentation (both
>blew off close to 1.5 gallons of beer, and I almost had my eye put out
>by the blowoff tube plug exploding out of the carboy on the most
>recent batch).  The fermentation was done with ale yeast at
>approximately 75 degrees.  I have tried re-aerating (sp) the partially
>fermeneted beer, but it doesn't make any difference.
>
>I bottled the previous batch after letting it sit around doing nothing
>for a week and it came out tasting great, with a reasonably high
>alchohal content.
>
>Does anyone have any guesses as to what could be happening here?  Any
>help will be greatly appreciated.
>
>                               Thanks,
>			               Kirk Sayre
>				       sayre@chopin.cas.american.edu

What type of yeast did you use?  I made an ordinary bitter using
Edme ale yeast.  The specific gravity went from 1.038 to 1.014 in about
16 h.  I know this is not a high gravity brew but the concept is the same.
also, this beer only took 1 day to get carbonated.  I would predict
that if the srarting gravity would have been higher, say 1.055, then
the fermentation might have taken 2 days.  So, depending on the yeast
a quick fermentation is very possible.
	Furthermore, honey is about 43% glucose, 45% fructose, and 5 % 
sucrose along with some other sugars so the honey is readily fermentable.
If the fermentation only lasts 48 hours, then the sooner you can drink
it!  If you used Laaglander or John bull malt extract, these will tend
to give a high final gravity but still may taste fine.  I made a 
steam with a final gravity of 1.032 using Laaglander malt.  It tastes great!




___________________________________________________________________________

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   Pig   Soooiie, Razorbacks

keith reding         |     Internet  keithr@lenti.med.umn.edu            
univ. minnesota      |           
dept. microbiology   |      What does a 5-gal glass carboy of beer        
minneapolis          |       sound like when it it hits a concrete floor 
                     |        from 4 ft?    

                            Answer:   @$#****@#@!!#$#@. 

__________________________________________________________________________ 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: kral@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral)
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:55:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <BzF349.CIJ@news.dtc.hp.com> peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.181118.8923@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> kral@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral) writes:
>>
>>OK, I just asked the resident chemist here.  He says, I had it right. The
>>acidity etches off the copper oxide.  He says that all metals have an 
>>associated etch rate.  Stainless steel is very low and things like copper
>>are relatively high.  (This chemist is a former homebrewer also).
>
>Interesting.  Is he a "former" brewer because after he realized what was
>happening he stopped rather than die of copper poisoning?  :-)
>
>	Peter
>-- 


No,,, He stopped brewing when he discovered he had a problem,,,the inability
to control his rate of consumption. 

Joe.
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Couple of quick questions...
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:11:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9259
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1992Dec15.064340.3528@nic.csu.net> steve@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.193702.23442@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>>I would strongly suggest that you not pour hot wort into your fermenter, 
>>for a number of reasons:
>>
>>1) Oxidation
>>The more you slosh hot wort about, the more likely it is to oxidize.  This 
>>causes it to taste bad.
>
>Not true (in that, oxidation is not a bad thing).  Your yeast need
>oxygen during the initial phases of fermentation.
>
>It is after the beer is fermented that oxidizing should be avoided.
>Specifically, oxidation should be avoided at bottling time.
>
>This is the second time I've heard somebody get this backwards here
>in r.c.brewing.  What's the confusion?

I'll tell you what I think the confusion is...*<smirk>*.
You are confusing oxidation with aeration.

Oxidation is a chemical reaction between oxygen and beer (or wort).
Oxidation is bad.  It causes off-flavors, known as "oxidized flavor".
Oh yes, and did I mention that oxidation is bad?

Aeration is oxygen *in solution* in the beer wort.  It is not a
chemical reaction.  Aeration is good, at the beginning.  (You said
that "yeast need oxygen during the initial phases of fermentation", which
is pretty close -- I take you to mean "the initial phase of yeast
activity".  This initial phase is respiration, which is distinct from
fermentation).  When yeast are respiring, they will use all available
oxygen.  Once fermentation has begun, any new oxygen introduced will
not be used by the yeast, and will thus be available to react with the
beer and make it not taste as good.

Hot wort has much more of a tendency to react with oxygen than has
cool wort (and coincidentally, it has less capacity for dissolving
anything, e.g. oxygen).  This is why you should NOT SLOSH hot wort.
If you must transfer hot wort, siphon it rather than pouring.

In summary:

	* AERATING _hot_ wort will cause OXIDATION.
	  Do not AERATE hot wort.

	* AERATING _cool_ wort, up until fermentation starts, makes
	  oxygen available for the yeast to use in respiration.
	  _Do_ AERATE cool wort (e.g. slosh the holy living daylights
	  out of it before you pitch the yeast).

	* AERATING _beer_ will cause OXIDATION.
	  Do not AERATE beer.
	  (For the sake of this discussion, it counts as "beer" any
	  time between the beginning of fermentation and the time you
	  pour it down your gizzard).

Happy Brewing,
Mark
From: davidp@snoopy.ds.boeing.com (David P. Peden)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: RE: Spray Malts etc.
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:16:24 GMT
Organization: Avionics Integration, Boeing Defense & Space, Seattle

This is an update of what has happened after I added Yeast Energizer
and repitched into a batch that had finished fermenting at 1.030. I
now get 1.020 a week later, I racked to secondary and will monitor 
for any more fermenting. This batch was made with all Dry Laaglander
Extra Light Spray malt. The Energizer at least got me another percent
of alcohol. Seems to taste as expected also... Thanks to all who have
responded to this subject, it gives us lots of data points for cheap.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   David Peden                    at davidp@woodstock.ds.boeing.com |
|   Boeing Defense & Space Group                                     |
|   Seattle,WA                        Tail Hook Ale Brewing Co.  :)  | 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jhh@sprite.berkeley.edu (John H. Hartman)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Kegs
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:03:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: loiter.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec16.142052.3544@nic.csu.net> steve@caticsuf.csufresno.edu (Steve Mitchell) writes:
>
>Okay, I give.  What's the net.wisdom on getting ones hands
>on cheap soda kegs?  I've been talking all afternoon and 
>still haven't found anybody who will sell me kegs.

Try a scrap-metal yard. I picked up a 15.5 gallon AB keg from one
for the price of the stainless (I think it worked out to $18).
The keg was in good condition, with only a few dents. Even had a
few ounces of well-aged Bud in it. 

John



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John H. Hartman
Graduate Student, UCB Sprite project
jhh@sprite.berkeley.edu
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Sour Milk [Re: Xylitol info]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 07:21:47 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1gt80vINNhtn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> (rec.crafts.brewing), djt2@po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton) writes:
) In a previous article, joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) says:
) >If I get my hands on some xylitol (or sorbitol) and want to use it to 
) >sweeten mead, wine, stout, etc. ...
) >
) >what do I do?  How much do I use?  Handling/ingestion considerations?
) 
) I don't know why you'd want to.  The norm is to use lactose (milk sugar)
) for this, and that is a lot cheaper too.

Well, I know this.  There was, however, a poster from the UK a while
ago who talked about using xylitol.  Hey, maybe it was something I
read in the mead digest.  Which brings me to my next point.

) Many of these same people claimed to prefer xylitol or
) sorbitol too, but I *think* that both of these sugar/alcohols are not
) metabolized by humans either, i.e. they could cause the same symptoms as
) lactose in intolerant individuals.

Doubt it.  Any doctors about?

) The last time I tasted sorbitol, it had a funny taste too, kind of
) cool-minty.

I'm not really tempted to use cough-drop-sweetener in my beer or mead,
but ... maybe ... anyway, xylitol was supposedly superior.

) I've been tempted to make a sour milk stout some time, i.e. add a quart of
) curdled milk to the boil; the lactose would contribute sweetness, and the
) spoilage some tartness.  I'd expect hot break mucho grande from the milk
) proteins.

Time for my next point.  A recent thread on the mead digest had someone
fermenting a mixture of milk and honey.  Even stranger, the result
was favorably reviewed!  Analogies to cordial-making were drawn. 
I think this is something I will have to try at some point.

) Hope the thought of this doesn't gag anyone.  Input on milk stout is
) appreciated, since I haven't tried this at all.

You mean "real milk" stout?  I don't think I've ever heard of anyone
actually putting milk in stout, even in old recipes.  You may or may
not know that "milk stout" in modern usage refers only to the use
of lactose.  

Now, certainly, of course, someone has made milk stout with actual
milk, since it is a fact that every mixture has been fermented at least
once.  I wonder if it was any good?  I think I'd just buy a fresh
carton or two of pasteurized skim milk and dump it into the primary if I
were trying the experiment.

=======================================================================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: Stout: pretty flat, but hell, it tastes good!
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:16:00 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <connolly.724369624@vincent1.iastate.edu>, connolly@iastate.edu (Patrick H Connolly) writes:
|> I recentlyy brewed my firstt batch.  Laagla's "Irish" stout.  It
|> seems to have turned out fine, but it seems pretty  flat. 
|> It was brewed in grolsh snap p- on bottles and doesn't seem to have
|> leaked.  When poured, no real head, mad.  What could I do to enhance/add
|> more carbonation.  It's been stored for approx. 1 month @ 68 degrees.
|> Any discussion is appreciated...
|> BTW - What would be a next step for a batch?  I'm thinking of a pale
|> ale - Recommendations?
|> 
|> Thanks.
|> 

Did you refrigerate the stout before pouring?  I recently tested an imperial
stout that had been bottled about three weeks.  Without thinking I placed the
bottle in the fridge for about an hour (I know, Shame! Shame!...) and poured
it.  It seemed flat, and the taste was a little off.  After another five days,
I took one right out of the closet, and poured it.  This was MUCH BETTER!  And
I realized then what I had done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Charlie Murray           CompuServe:  73707,1752
  Consulting at IBM        Internet:    73707.1752@compuserve.com

  NOTE:  If sending email use the addresses given in this .sig,
         not the one in the header of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: magus@brewhau.bison.mb.ca (James Copland)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: ?!?->"DME"<-?!? and High finishing DME brews.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 12:37:39 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Organium Brainbending & Low Level CodeWorks of Winnipeg, Manitoba.

mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist) writes:

> In article <89920028@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> arnet@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Arne Thorm
>       (Mark sez):
> >>and brews something from 7 pounds of *diastatic* malt extract ("yeah,
> >>'Edme DME', just like its says on the can..." :-) and not get the brew
> >>they expected...
> >
>
> >This reminded me to ask, exactly what does "diastatic" mean?  Enquiring
> >minds want to know...
>
> "Diastatic" refers to "diastase", a generic term for the
> starch-converting enzymes in malt (alpha- and beta-amylase).
>
[snip ...]
> >
> >--arne
> >
[snip ...]
>
> Cheers,
> --mark

Salut!

Just a thought here.  Based on the fact that alpha- and beta-amylase
"snip" starches into sugars and sugars into simple(er) sugars, perhaps
the cure for Alexanders Dry Malt Extract (and John Bull BTW) high
finishing batches is to add some (say 0.5 kg or 1 lb) of Diastatic
Malt Extract to those batches.  Thus the Grain(?) Bill might read 6
lbs Alexanders Dry ME and 1 lb Edme Diastatic ME.  This might (I
haven't tried it YET) get the final gravitiy lower on those high
(1.030) finishing DME batches without the explicit use of alpha-
amylase.  Some people find that even with just one teaspoon of alpha-
amylase in the primary they can taste a "Chemical" taste in bind
comparsions of split amylase/no-amylase Dry ME batches.  Since amylase
denatures at about 60 C (140 F) I would suggest adding the malts to
the cool water before bringing your wort to the boil.  Comments?

Regards,
Magus.

 -: My ancestors were ancient druids, running naked thru the woods      :-
 -: Drinkin strange fermenting fluids, I do it when I'm one of my moods :-
 -: magus@brewhau.bison.mb.ca                                           :-
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing