From: ttran@cv3000.Prime.COM (T. Tran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: CALL FOR A DIALOGUE/epilogue
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:14:13 GMT
Reply-To: @relay.prime.com:ttran@cv3000.Prime.COM
Organization: SCV Relay
Originator: daemon@media-lab.media.mit.edu


There is NO DOUBT that the VNese communists wiped out all oppositions
in NVN and then SVN after 1975. It was the kind of policy that came
straight from the nature of Communist doctrines. 

It's not my intention to defend Communism in VN: Lord knows anyone who 
looks at what happened in Eastern Europe can say with certainty that as 
far as a revolutionary ideology for the Third World, communism is quickly
disappearing into the dust bin of history. 

(But that is not to say the issues RAISED by the spreading of movements
 for national independence earlier have been resolved.)

My intention in calling for a dialogue is for us to all review what 
happened on OUR side, why was it that we lost. For unless we come to
an understanding of that period of our history, we will not be able to
start on a new journey. There was an old saying , "Know thyself ...". 

As for all the EVILS of communisms, we can devote as much ink to them
as we care to, but it won't explain why we lost.

Fate is always a possible answer, "Va^.n khu+' anh hu`ng a^?m ha^.n dda",
but it's too much of an easy way out, I believe.

I fully understand the bitterness and hatred of communism from those of 
us who had lived through the post-1975, witnessed and sufferred the
indignity and persecution of "the victors", of those SVNese soldiers who
had to survive, if just barely, the treatment meted out to them in the
"reeducation camps". Who among all of us, Vietnamese in this country,
had not been personally touched by tragedies that befell their loved ones,
or close friends and neighbors ?

As I've said elsewhere:

*>> The point that I am trying to make is this:
*>>
*>> - The war is over, and we have lost.
*>>   Let's face up to the facts, understand WHY we lost, not the why's
*>>   based upon all the fictions that had been dinned into our heads in
*>>   SVN, but the why's based on a realistic, factual understanding of
*>>   history, regardless of how painful and unsettling it might be.
*>>   (See Jeffrey Race's journey of discovery above.)

*>> - Only by doing that that we have the right information to come up
*>>   with the right solution for the future of Vietnam.
*>>   Otherwise we will keep ourselves forever buried in a sea of
*>>   bitterness and recriminations, trying to REFIGTH THE WAR WITH ALL
*>>   THE TOOLS AND ATTITUDES THAT CAUSED US TO LOSE THE WAR IN THE FIRST
*>>   PLACE !

There are 70 million VNese in VN. Most of them are barely able to eke
out an existence. I don't believe any of them want to refight the war,
esp. another war involved foreign intervention under whatever disguise.

I believe most of them want a governement that will allow freer associations
and activities of all kinds.

I believe most of them want the government to respect the Buddhist church,
the genuine Buddhist church, those who throughout the entire history of 
VN, from the Ngo, Le, Ly, Tran dynasties to the present time, have always
identified themselves with the welfare of the people and the fate of the 
nation. The fact that they are now either in prison or relegated to the
bottom rung of society, IS A TESTIMONY TO THAT GREAT and ILLUSTRIOUS
TRADITION, not one time ever violated in two thousand years of VNese 
recorded history. 

And most of all I believe that they all want a better life: they don't want 
to be strangled economically and diplomatically by the superpowers of the
world, who, in the entire history of VN, have never paid much attention to
the interests of the VNese people.

If we can agree on an analysis of the past, and a goals for the future,
then maybe we can discuss the best ways to achieve the dream of every
VNese, whatever labels they may call themselves, AN INDEPENDENT, PROSPEROUS,
FREE, AND DEMOCRATIC VIETNAM. 

May the death of over five million VNese in the last hundred years guides
us, provides us with the wisdom to settle our differences, to have trust in
the sincerity of each of us, and work together for the future of VN.

For all temporal powers will come to dust, regardless of how machiavellian
and powerful. It's, in the end, only the flower of a culture -- the care
and loving for each other -- that is ultimately important. History will
neither record nor remember those who by circumstance achieve power at
a moment, but forget to use it for the benefit of the whole people. 


T. Tran

--------- Original posting <1992Dec7.235944.11874@news.media.mit.edu> ---

From: ttran@cv3000.prime.com (T. Tran)

> The question of Communists versus Nationalists is a complex one. A lots
> slogans and, to me at least, misconception have been generated to 
> intentionally justify a rabid brand of anti-communism in SVN. It will
> take too much ink to go over the issue here. Please refer to Huynh
> Trang Khanh's "Vietnamese Communism, 1925-1945" for a detailed and
> well-researched analysis of the meanings of these loaded labels.
>
> Briefly, I'll try to summarize a few points: 
>
> -- When Nguyen Thai Hoc failed in his revolt at Yen Bai ("Kho^ng tha`nh
>    co^ng thi` tha`nh nha^n"), we've seen the last of the nationally-
>    known resistance organized by the non-communist intellectuals in
>    Vietnam. In fact, all non-communist movements against France shared
>    the same fate: crushed completely by the security apparatus of the
>    French colonial adminstration.


...and by the Vietnamese Communists - an important point that was much
documented. I'll quote one of the sources [1]:

     
        "Ho and the hard-bitten men around him ... then gave the final
         blow to the non-Communist nationalists after they took power
         in Hanoi. During the period right after World War II the sur-
         vivors of the Vietnamese Kuomintang and several other non-
         Communist factions attempted to set up rival administration
         and militias in the North to contest the Viet Minh. Ho crushed
         them. About a hundred of the leaders were rounded up and executed.
         The Vietnamese Communists also conducted a campaign of selective
         assassination against non-Communist nationalists during the six-
         teen months between August 1945 and the outbreak of uninterrupted
         war with France..."


> -- It was then that HCM and his Indochinese Communist Party became the
>    only significant force left that could challenge Great France (Dda.i
>    Pha'p), which it did successfully, booting France out of North VN.


Vietanh Nguyen

Notes:
------
[1] Neil Sheehan, A Bright Shining Lie, p. 171. 
    By "the Vietnamese Kuomintang," Sheehan meant to refer to Nguyen
    Thai Hoc's VNQDD.
    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese