HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tilley@leads15.UUCP (Tom Tilley)
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Reply-To: tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LOCKHEED, Sunnyvale, CA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:41:53 GMT

In article <Jan27.165956.74635@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:

>The only contingencies I ever seem to have problems with are noisy
>obnoxious people, and rangers telling me I can't camp/bivy where I want.

Oh?  I remember your post (several months ago) about your stove dying,
leading to the dire emergency of a coffee-free day!   :-) :-)

(I remember the post because the same emergency almost befell me, except
that I was far enough below timber-line that I could soap the pan and start
a fire).

Tom.
#--------------------------------------------------#
| Tom Tilley                                       |
| Internet : tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com   |
From: John Laurence <jal6@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Minnesota Canoeing
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:40:50 GMT
Organization: BTI
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.253.14.88
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXDate: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:48:02 GMT

Subject: Minnesota Canoeing
From: Martin Hammett, hammett@rtsg.mot.com
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:33:15 GMT
In article <hammett.727767195@puffer> Martin Hammett,
hammett@rtsg.mot.com writes:
>A friend of a friend told me about a place in Minnesota,
near the 
>Canadian border, where one could go canoeing down some
river.  
>Granted this is very little information, but does any one
know of 
>a group that organizes these things in northern Minnesota
and 
>how I could get in touch with them?  Any tips would be
appreciated.
>-- 
>--Martin
>
>---------------------------------------------+---------
------------------------
>Martin Hammett A.K.A. "Riggs"                | Phone:  +1
708-632-2191
There are a few rivers to canoe up there--in fact, many of
the lakes in the
Boundary Waters Canoe Area are part of a large river
system.  The Pigeon
river starts at Lake Superior (with an 8 mile portage) and
goes for a couple hundred miles
along the border thru some great wilderness.  There are
all sorts of outfitters is the
towns bordering on the wilderness.
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: gaiters for crossing streams
Date: 23 Jan 1993 13:12:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: donald.cc.utexas.edu

In article <PSHANNON.93Jan19081423@iapetus.cv.nrao.edu> pshannon@iapetus.cv.nrao.edu (Paul Shannon) writes:
>[...]  
>Colin Fletcher, (Complete Walker III, page 69) mentions "the
>knee-length Yeti gaiter by Berghaus ... (which has) a 1.5-inch-deep
>rubber seal that grips the boot sole tightly enough to exclude all
>moisture."
>[...]

I believe North Face has something like that also and the fabric is Gore-Tex.  
I think I have seen it in a local store here in Austin, TX (Whole Earth).  I 
saw someone use that Berghaus gaiter.  It's very nice.  I'd love to have a
pair!  It won't be difficult to get that North Face one in the States.  It's
probably impossible to get Berghaus stuff in the States; but, very likely in 
Europe, and definitely in England.  

BTW, is there any mail order companies in England or Europe that accept 
overseas orders?  I'm looking for one that stocks Berghaus/Karrimor rucsacs 
and accessories.  Climb High here in the States carries only a few models of
Karrimor rucsacs and very limited accessories.  

Andrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound
From: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: do you want a new group -- rec.camping?
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:03:54 GMT
Reply-To: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

I like seeing all the subjects in the present newsgroup.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Collecting
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 05:15:06 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1993Jan20.192440.11383@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>I've also seen rangers tramp carelessly on vegetation in above
>treeline alpine areas.  Rangers are human.

People tend to look upon vegies as something which will grow back.
Besides Park rangers were allowed to hunt to supplement their incomes
until the 1930s.

>Innocent?  I thought so.

A start.

>If every visitor did so?  It becomes not so innocent anymore.
>Strange that the more who participate, the less acceptable it becomes, eh?

Population pressure.  Concept of carrying capacity.
Intelligence is coming to the realization it's not inductive.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Vasque boots and Dana Design packs?
Originator: david@c30003-2410br.mae.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:19:59 GMT


Thoughts on

Boots:

I have had a pair of Vasque boots for about 16 years. I don't even remember
the type anymore. They have been resoled once and used for everything from
backpacking to daily wear during graduate school. They have been great!!


Packs:

I recently bought a Dana Archflex Astralplane (~ 7,000 cu. in.) pack. I have 
used it to carry up to 65 lb loads and have been pleased with it's performance.
Great suspension system and quality. No problems. Very expensive and somewhat 
heavy (6 lbs empty).
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: frank@tomcat.rd.ray.com (Frank Sandy)
Subject: Re: HIKING IN MAINE -- INFO REQUESTED
Organization: Raytheon Co., Research Division, Lexington, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:16:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.090833.7471@gw.wmich.edu> x90watz@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>Netters,
>
>	My mind has been wandering lately in the direction of Maine........ My
>roommate and I are seriously considering taking a trip there immediately
>post-graduation from this wonderful university ;-)  I want to know anything
>which is pertinent to hiking there..........places to go, weather to prepare
>for, etc.  We will be going in late April/early May for approximately a week. 
>	Anything which can be relayed will be much appreciated......and I'll
>even post any shareable wisdom if there is enough response.  Thanks in advance!
>
>-Mike-
>*WMU*

	You didn't say what kind of terrain or level of difficulty you
enjoy.  If you want mountains under 1500' with timber line often below
700', and hiking on bare granite above that, spectacular views of the
surrounding mountains, lakes, and ocean, you can't beat Acadia National
Park on Mt. Desert Island.  Its the best views for the least effort of any
area I know.  I'll leave descriptions of Katahdin, and other more
"serious" hiking areas to people who have been there more recently than me.
-- 
Frank Sandy,  Raytheon Research Div.,  131 Spring Street,  Lexington, MA 02173
frank@tomcat.rd.ray.com                                  phone: (617) 860-3049
From: as376@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephen C. Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Light Weight Back Packing?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 03:15:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know anything about very! light weight back
packing? I mean going into the woods for 1-2 nights with just
20 lbs or so.  I am not talking survival tactics quite, I would 
still wnat to use a small stove of some kind with  other light
weight gear and a minimum of the basics.  I have a slight back 
problem and figure I cane still continue back packing if 
I go very lite weight and carry it very low on my back 
(belt pack of some kind?)  Thanks for any information or 
advice...Steve Ferguson/sferguso@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sjain@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Sanjay Jain)
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 04:07:07 GMT

apropos of the discussion of stoves (for turkey or otherwise), we bought
a coleman apex. first off, one should be warned that in order to use
kerosene in it, one needs to buy separately (i should capitalise that
word) a kerosene "generator". (if you thought, as i did, that generators

were things that created electricity, well...the generator they mean is
a metal piece about 2 inches long). in any case, it does'nt come with
the stove, and they don't mention it anywhere on the box. it's only when
you read the really fine print (on how to operate the stove) that they
casually mention "oh, and by the way, don't forget to change the
generator to the one you did'nt buy, would you". and i.goldberg (where i
bought the stove, did'nt have it). also, not being
familiar with stoves (or at least not these ones), i don't know if the
MSR's etc. require you to change the generator (or anything else) every
time you use a different fuel - the apex does. this is probably not a
big deal, since you're likely to use the same fuel on any given trip,
but be warned that the generator changing requires one to essentially
take the stove apart. you can use white gas on the apex (which is what
we did), and it works fine, but given that the kerosene option appears
to be harder than anticipated, i'm unsure that it was worth the extra
cash... do the other stoves have these problems? regards.
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Home made food dehidrator questions
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 23:32:14 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

u538256@csi.uottawa.ca (Chris Chenier) writes:
> I have heard of people using light bulbs (normal 100W), but
> since the primary function of a light bulb is to provide light
> (no, really?), I wonder if there would be a more efficient
> method?

Actually, an incandescent light bulb is a much better at heating than at
lighting: only about 5% of the energy used goes into light, and the rest goes
directly into heat.  This is why there is so much room for efficiency
improvement, and energy savings, in lighting!  More important, though, is that
as long as you don't let the light escape, it ends up getting converted into
heat anyway when is is absorbed by the walls of your container.  In fact,
virtually any electrical device will deliver its full wattage rating in the
form of heat in a closed container.  If radiation cannot escape, there are only
a few other forms that the electrical energy can be converted to, such as
chemical bonds (cooking), phase changes (boiling), nuclear fusion or fission... 

A light bulb is very cheap, and in a closed box is 100% efficient at converting
electrical energy into thermal energy.

A classical trick question for physics students is: you have a room which is
completely energy-sealed except for an electrical outlet.  In the room you have
a refrigerator, plugged into the outlet and running, with its door open.  Does
it

   a) cool the room
   b) heat the room
   c) have no effect

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc!blkhole!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: x90watz@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Recommendation: a place to go with my father?
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:07:54 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Western Michigan University

> After years of claiming that I am crazy, my father hsa decided that he wants 
> to share a wilderness experience with me.  We are planning to go somewhere
> in mid-July, but don't know where to go.  He could probably not deal with 
> carrying a heavy pack for a long time, and canoeing is out, so we are loking
> for a good place to day trip from a lodge or something.  Anywhere in the U.S.
> is fair game, but we'd prefer someplace in the Rockies.  Any suggestions,    
> experiences would be  a great help.  I have to make this a good trip!
> 
> Thanks,
> Andrew


	I would suggest Irwin Lodge just Northwest of Crested Butte,
Colorado.......it's a gorgeous lodge on the side of a mountain, but it is at
about 11,000 feet, so might be too high?  I'm sure there are oodles of day
trails to take from there.  
	I think that you take the Kebler Pass road from Crested Butte.....let
me know if you need more info.......I could try to get it for you.

-Mike-
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: evb@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (edward.v.bacher)
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:10:08 GMT


When I was in college, I used unleaded gasoline in my Svea.
That was fifteen years ago, and my Svea's still in good shape.
But I do spring for Coleman fuel now.  I think that Coleman fuel
has less dirt in it, and it also doesn't have additives that
are good for you car (but bad for your stove).

Ed
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:18:10 GMT
Reply-To: damouth@wrc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center

A year or two ago, there was an (highly controversial) article in
Backpacker by some guy who claimed that for most people, it was dumb to
take food on a backpack trip.  His point was that most people carry a
little excess weight all the time anyway, that periodic fasting is a
time-tested tradition in many cultures, that our genes provide built in
support for fasting, as a result of our species' hunter-gatherer
origins, and that almost anyone could thrive, even benefit, from a week
with no food.

So the ultimate lightweight backpack trip is to leave the food, stove,
pots, etc. home.

I haven't personally tried it yet, but intend to.

Talk to your doctor first, and if it kills you, blame him, not me

---
/Dave
David E. Damouth
Xerox Webster Research Center
damouth@wrc.xerox.com
voice: 716-422-3186
fax: 716-265-7133
From: sstout@yukon.EBay.Sun.COM (Steve Stout, Mgr. Sales Negotiations)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Montana
Date: 27 Jan 1993 23:04:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: sstout@yukon.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: yukon.ebay.sun.com
Keywords: Montana

Anybody in Montana on this alias, I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

'Steve
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: define adventure
Date: 22 Jan 93 06:21:22 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1993Jan21.155454@roper.mc.ti.com>
a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph) writes:
>Does anyone remember that this all started when someone asked about climbing Mt.
>Washington in the winter?  (I find such exercises more fun than paddling on a
>smooth river etc, but then we are all needed to make a world!)

Of course.
That's the way of the Net.
But remember that it's important to edit Subject lines (did you still want
Mt. W. in the Subject line above?).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: dvost+@pitt.edu (David Voigt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Timberland Boots
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:54:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I am currently looking at a pair of Timberland 6" Gore-Tex/400 gram
Thinsulate hikers.  They are leather/cordura.  Does anybody have these
and could tell me how they are (i.e. Do they hold up ok? etc...)  Also,
could you tell me what you paid for them?                   
I would also welcome input from others who have other Timberland 
footware.

Thanks,
Dave Voigt
University of Pittsburgh
dvost+@pitt.edu

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10544 rec.climbing:5413
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:42:07 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1993Jan26.221612.24457@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>I have had more trouble with skiing injuries than all of climbing.
>The velocity has something to do with it.

As I see it, skiing is more likely to injure you (because of the velocity)
whereas climbing is more likely to kill you (because of the velocity).

Climbing accidents are less likely but more severe, I'm guessing.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: senyart@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (PEROT 96)
Subject: Head to TN, USA: A few questions.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:12:42 GMT

My roommates and I are headed to the Smoky Mountains NP in mid-March
and are trying to pull the logistics together.  Any advise/answers 
would be greatly appreciated.

We are planning 8 days in the backcountry.   I have been on a few 1 or
2 night trips in the Smokies and one of my roommates can only claim 
a few years experience in USMC.

We are currently in the process of making equipment and planning
decisions, etc:

We are considering a trip along Fontana Lake which would end at either
Clingman's Dome (assuming the road is open) or Smokemmont.  The basic
advantage that we saw was that questions of water and weather would be
less difficult in this area of the park.  Has anyone travelled along 
this route?  Other suggested routes?

As of now, we plan to use a tent rather than the shelters.  In the
past, I have preferred this to the shelters.  Opinions?

What type of weather should we anticipate at this time of year? 

I think we have decided on stoves and a tent.  But, what do you
suggest for sleeping bags, cookware and food?  In the past, I've
only been staying for a night or two, so the weight/space wasn't a 
serious consideration.

What is reasonable mileage for an extended stay (7+ days)?  We are 
planning for about 7-8 miles per day.  My intuition tells me this is 
a little light...especially at a low altitude without much change in
grade.

What are the top 3 items you'd think that newbies would not think of
(or know of, for that matter)?

What are the top 3 things you can do to lighten your load?


I'm sure we'll come up with some more.

Email or postings both welcome.

Thanks and best regards-

Jas
-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
S. Jason Enyart                                       Senior, Computer Science 
senyart@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu                    Indiana University Bloomington
                            -------->X<---------
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Avoid Lyme Disease: Go naked?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:04:36 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan27.160725.18432@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>deer tics do not tend to bite people at
>nudist camps but do bite the same people when not at the camp. He
>theorizes that the tics like to get under the clothing where they
>are protected. 

I have gotten several ticks on my back while working shirtless outdoors. 
Perhaps the key is _total_ nudity. Are ticks prudish?

--Peter
From: monika@graphics.ap.mchp.sni.de (Monika Kreuz  SNI AP 153 )
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: do you want a new group -- rec.camping?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:22:14 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG
Distribution: world
Reply-To: monika@graphics.ap.mchp.sni.de (Monika Kreuz  SNI AP 153 )
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.67.55.19


rec.camping?

YES, I would like to get such a newsgroup.


--
Monika Kreuz    Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG
                SNI AP 153             Munich, Germany
                Monika.Kreuz@graphics.ap.mchp.sni.de
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Karrimor SA 7000? (Re: Thoughts on Vasque boots and Dana Design packs?)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 13:41:07 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: donald.cc.utexas.edu

In article <qfk=8c_@engin.umich.edu> oscar@med.umich.edu (Steven Gonzalez) writes:
>[...]
>I have a Dana Terraplane and love it.  [...]  

I'm sure you havn't tried the Karrimor Condor.  That's what I have and I love
it.  (Of course, Dana Design makes very nice packs.)  

Has anyone tried the newest rucsac by Karrimor?  I believe it's called SA 7000
(or something like that).  I had a chance to browse through the brochure.  I
was told that only a couple of hundreds are manufactured and they are all 
serial-numbered!  Karrimor claims it has the best back system.  It carries 
lifetime warranty (as most Karrimor rucsacs do).  I was also told that the
owners of these very first SA 7000s will also enjoy free modifications; 
meaning, if Karrimor makes newer versions of it later on, owners of the 
originals can send them back to Karrimor and have them "upgraded" free of 
charge.  

Can anyone confirm the name of the rucsac and the claims?  


Andrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound