HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: Geography of M.E. Was:(Re: Blue Wizards?)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 10:05:21 GMT

jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu writes:

>I read in some book of criticism that Middle Earth is our own earth before 
>the dawn of recorded history. Tolkien envisioned it as a system of myth 
>which would take its place beside the gods and myths of the ancient Greeks 
>and Romans. Primarily he intended it to be a system of myth for his own 
>country to call its own, saying at some point that England had no myths, no 
>magic, no past to truly call its own. (I disagree, just think of Arthurian 
>Legend.)

But Tolkien knew what the Arthurian Legend really was.  Arthur is a hero of
the British -- that is, the Welsh, the real British.  The whole Arthurian
story is about how Arthur, King of the British, kept the invading heathen
scum (the English) conquered for many years, but how eventually he died and
the British were overrun, driven out of most of their country, enslaved,
divided, and eventually conquered entirely.  But don't worry, said the
prophecy of Merlin, some day Arthur will arise again, and put all the English
to flight or to the sword, and the Welsh will have Britain back again.

Tolkien, understandably, thought this didn't really count as "a mythology for
England."  And being twenty years old and very imaginative (not to mention
bored to tears in an Army training camp) he decided to write them himself.
The original conception of the Silmarillion was a set of stories told by the
Elves to Eriol, an English mariner, who sailed to the Elvish island of Tol
Eressea.  (This was originally England, and Eriol sailed from Europe; later
Tolkien decided that Eriol sailed from England.)  The Eriol story didn't go
away, by the way, and JRRT kept trying to rewrite it and turn it into a book of
its own -- first as "The Lost Road" and then as "The Notion Club Papers".

I think Tolkien is quite explicit about the fact that Middle-Earth is our
own Earth, in an imaginary historical past.  He was interested in paeleo-
geography, and you can match up most of Middle-earth with Europe.  (Mordor,
for instance, is the volcanic area in the central Mediterranean; the Misty
Mountains (or is that the White Mountains) are now the Alps, etc.  The
comparison is pretty loose, though.

- David Librik
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: djweisbe@unix.amherst.edu (David Weisberger)
Subject: Re: Hobbits in the Undying Lands
Organization: large
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:57:48 GMT

chesky@stanmusial.austin.ibm.com wrote:
: >>But this raises a problem for me.  At the end of LOTR, Frodo and Bilbo
: >>take the last ship to the Undying Lands.  Later, the appendices tell us,
: >>Sam took a ship west to join them.
: >>
: I thought the exception was made for Bilbo, Frodo and Sam because they 
: had been ring bearers (I don't know about Gimli).
:
: Of course, we all know that as long as one possesses the Ring one will 
: not age and die like a mere mortal, but what about after you lose or give 
: up the Ring?  Are you still "immortal"?  Gollum is good evidence that maybe
: this is the case.  He was what, 400...500 years old or something like
: that at the time of LotR.  And he had been living something like 60 or 70
: years after losing the Ring.  And he wasn't even senile, like Bilbo.  And
: Bilbo, too lived for 20 years or so after giving the Ring to Frodo (of 
: course his age wasn't totally out of the realm of possibility for Hobbits -- 
: just food for thought).
: 
: IDHMBWMRN (I don't have my books with me right now), but I know this is 
: talked about in LotR somewhere; I think in the "Shadow of the Past" chapter
: in FotR.
: 
I don't think Gandalf or even Saruman knew exactly what the One Ring
would do to its bearer.  Isildur and Gollum died of unnatural causes,
so the texts are not much help.  But I suspect that, since the Ring
was cast into Mt. Doom, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam would all remain mortal.
The ring lent power to its bearer and influenced the wills of its
former bearers, but I don't believe its power outlasted its existence.


--
Davebo                    "Don't believe I'm taken in by stories I have heard.
                           I just read the Daily News and swear by every word."
djweisbe@unix.amherst.edu
From: schere@aix.rpi.edu (Mithrandir)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Re: Beren and Luthien
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:47:00 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

In article <s4q3m8+@rpi.edu> johnsc3@rpi.edu writes:
>OK,
>
>I just noticed this newsgroup and read everything in it over the past 48 hours.
>
>I never thought there could be this many people who love this man's works like I
>do.
>
>Anyway,
>I have a couple of questions which I would like some answers to if anyone knows them.  First, is there anything else written about the story of Beren's life, or his love with Luthien other than what is written in the Quenta Simarillion?  I have been looking since I first read Sim(about 7 or 8 years ago)  I can not get this story out of my head, and I would appreciate the help. 
>
>The second is purely speculation, and I am curious about the feelings of others on this -- is Sting, the 'sword' carried by Bilbo and later Frodo, actually Angcrist (Sp?), the dagger which Beren took from Celegorm and later cut the Simaril from the Iron Crown with?  I have been unable to find any information either for or against this theory (it is possible that I have missed something in something that Christopher Tolkien has published).
>
>Stand and be true
>Wolf
>
>.
>
>
It would be cool, but Sting isnt Angrist for two reasons. 1) Angrist snapped
when Beren tried to take a 2nd Silmaril, and 2) Sting was forged in Goldolin.

It would be cool, though.
Mithrandir
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many are my names in many countries.  Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkun to 
the Dwarves; Olorin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the 
South Incanus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: s_perera@iastate.edu (Sunil M Perera)
Subject: Re: Hello?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 06:17:38 GMT

In article <C19CxG.5rC@cs.dal.ca> boucher@ug.cs.dal.ca (Darren B. Boucher) writes:
> Surely there must be some other fans of this, my favorite story ever.
>I recently heard of the animated feature "Return of the King", is this
>a good quality telling of the book? I'm wondering if it is worth watching,
>I enjoyed "Lord of the Rings" which of course doesn't cover the 3rd book,
>I also saw "The Hobbit" but that was kind of lame.
>

"Return of the King" is just as lame as "The Hobbit"...but i would watch it
anyway, just 2 c how close it comes 2 the book.

the little tan man


Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
From: coburnn@spot.Colorado.EDU (COBURN  NICHOLAS SCO)
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:03:57 GMT

In article <1jnuohINNbrm@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos) writes:
>Well Folks, it looks like I inadvertently answered my own question
>after I posted my note when I went out to buy a Clannad album.  
>
>I am a big fan of Enya and I just recently was introduced to the joys
>of the internet, and noticed a lot of mentioning Clannad in the same
>breath with enya.  I was curious to see how similar Clannad sounded
>to Enya, so I went to my local Tower Records and bought _Anam_ (I
>probably would have bought something else, but it was all that was
>available when I went in.) .  It seems that you can add the opening 
>section before the concert of U2's live at Red Rocks to the growing 
>list of things that use Clannad's "Harry's Game" as background music.
>It's interesting to think I had the seeds of Clannad planted in me
>before I even knew of them...
>
>	Not minutes after I realized this, I decided to call around
>to see if any other stores in my town carry Clannad, and found the album
>that "Harry's Game" originally appeared, _The Magical Ring_ (on Tara
>Records) and a few others.  I found an album that was dated earlier
>than _The Magical Ring_, called _Dulaman_ (Gael-Linn records: CEFCD
>058) and I like it a lot better than _Anam_!  More traditional stuff,
>with intruments that do not require plugging in.  It's a wonderful
>album, highly recommended by moi...
>
>Just wondering, are there any other albums that pre-date _The Magical
>Ring_ besides _Dulaman_?  My disc sez _Dulaman_ is dated 1976, and
>_The MAgical Ring_ is dated 1982.  I figure since I answered my own 
>question I thought I'd toss another question your way...
>
>Thanks, 
>Serge
>
>
>-- 

This little snippet of music also is the theme song of the
movie 'Patriot Games' (which on the soundtrack just says 
'traditional Gaelic song'), and the theme music on a new
Volkswagon commercial.

Nick


Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
From: jdoucette@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (What, me worry?)
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:27:00 GMT

 article <1993Jan26.163732.19672@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu
 (Aimee Powell) writes...

>there are several clannad records that pre-date both Magical Ring and
>Dulaman.  the best source is Shanachie records, and I'd be happy to
>post their address if anyone wants it.  their prices are great and they
>often have specials, like order three and get one free.  and there's
>no time-consuming searching to go through.
> 
>later,
> 
>Aimee
	Yes!  Please post!!!   Ever so grateful!!!
Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:136 alt.music.enya:1558
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
From: sundsted@cobber.cord.edu (Treasure Sundsted)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:31:10 GMT
Organization: Concordia College, Moorhead, MN


Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:133 alt.music.enya:1531
From: buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 04:55:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: world
Reply-To: buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos)
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu
Originator: buzz@doc.cc.utexas.edu

Well Folks, it looks like I inadvertently answered my own question
after I posted my note when I went out to buy a Clannad album.  

I am a big fan of Enya and I just recently was introduced to the joys
of the internet, and noticed a lot of mentioning Clannad in the same
breath with enya.  I was curious to see how similar Clannad sounded
to Enya, so I went to my local Tower Records and bought _Anam_ (I
probably would have bought something else, but it was all that was
available when I went in.) .  It seems that you can add the opening 
section before the concert of U2's live at Red Rocks to the growing 
list of things that use Clannad's "Harry's Game" as background music.
It's interesting to think I had the seeds of Clannad planted in me
before I even knew of them...

	Not minutes after I realized this, I decided to call around
to see if any other stores in my town carry Clannad, and found the album
that "Harry's Game" originally appeared, _The Magical Ring_ (on Tara
Records) and a few others.  I found an album that was dated earlier
than _The Magical Ring_, called _Dulaman_ (Gael-Linn records: CEFCD
058) and I like it a lot better than _Anam_!  More traditional stuff,
with intruments that do not require plugging in.  It's a wonderful
album, highly recommended by moi...

Just wondering, are there any other albums that pre-date _The Magical
Ring_ besides _Dulaman_?  My disc sez _Dulaman_ is dated 1976, and
_The MAgical Ring_ is dated 1982.  I figure since I answered my own 
question I thought I'd toss another question your way...

Thanks, 
Serge


-- 
"There is nothing so deep as the ocean       | Serge Pontejos
 There is nothing so high as the sky         | buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 And there is nothing unwavering as a woman  | __________________________ 
 When she's already made up her mind"        | 
           -Lyle Lovett                      | THIS SPACE FOR RENT
            "She's Already Made Up Her Mind" |
Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:143 alt.music.enya:1581
From: arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:48:53 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

In article <1993Jan25.143530.28229@cs.nott.ac.uk> eeyimkn@unicorn.nott.ac
uk (M. Knell) writes:
>In article <1jnuohINNbrm@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 
Serge Pontejos) writes:
>>                .  I was curious to see how similar Clannad sounded
>>to Enya,
>They're all from the same valley in Ireland, ISTR.
>If you look at the album covers, half of Clannad are called Brennan, and
guess
>what Enya's surname is.. yup, it's Brennan.
>They're all from the same very small part of Ireland, and are therefore 
elated
>(I presume). Hardly surprising that their music sounds fairly similiar.
>Still extremely good tho.
>BTW, it's "Magical Ring" (no The) ( :-) )
>I'd recommend Sirius as an extremely good Clannad album.
>Cheers,
>Mike
>
>+---- ' with the lights out, it's less dangerous' ----------------------
---+
>\------ Mike Knell, Willoughby Hall, University of Nottingham, IO92JX --
---/
> \  AMPRnet: mikee@g7gpa.ampr.org -=- Internet: eeyimkn@unicorn.nott.ac.
k /
>  \   JANET: eeyimkn@uk.ac.nott.unicorn   AX25: G7GPA@GB7BAD.#23.GBR.EU 
 /
>   +--------------------------------- 'oh well, whatever, nevermind...'-
+



the brennans are from the same *nuclear* family, and that's been discussed
here many times, recently!  the dugans are their twin uncles, and they all
hail from gweedore (gaoithdobhair), county donegal.

aimee
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
From: eeyimkn@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (M. Knell)
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:35:30 GMT

In article <1jnuohINNbrm@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos) writes:
>                .  I was curious to see how similar Clannad sounded
>to Enya,
They're all from the same valley in Ireland, ISTR.
If you look at the album covers, half of Clannad are called Brennan, and guess
what Enya's surname is.. yup, it's Brennan.
They're all from the same very small part of Ireland, and are therefore related
(I presume). Hardly surprising that their music sounds fairly similiar.
Still extremely good tho.
BTW, it's "Magical Ring" (no The) ( :-) )
I'd recommend Sirius as an extremely good Clannad album.
Cheers,
Mike

+---- ' with the lights out, it's less dangerous' --------------------------+
\------ Mike Knell, Willoughby Hall, University of Nottingham, IO92JX ------/
 \  AMPRnet: mikee@g7gpa.ampr.org -=- Internet: eeyimkn@unicorn.nott.ac.uk /
  \   JANET: eeyimkn@uk.ac.nott.unicorn   AX25: G7GPA@GB7BAD.#23.GBR.EU   /
   +--------------------------------- 'oh well, whatever, nevermind...'--+
Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:141 alt.music.enya:1574
From: zaphod@src4src.linet.org (Steve Wechsler)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
Subject: Re: Enya and Clannad
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:47:45 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source

In article <1993Jan25.143530.28229@cs.nott.ac.uk> eeyimkn@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (M. Knell) writes:
>In article <1jnuohINNbrm@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos) writes:
>>                .  I was curious to see how similar Clannad sounded
>>to Enya,
>They're all from the same valley in Ireland, ISTR.
>If you look at the album covers, half of Clannad are called Brennan, and guess
>what Enya's surname is.. yup, it's Brennan.
>They're all from the same very small part of Ireland, and are therefore related
>(I presume). Hardly surprising that their music sounds fairly similiar.

Actually, according to a blurb I read about Clannad at J&R Music World
in NYC (at a Clannad display/listening booth for their new album,
Anam) it stated that Enya is a sister to the Brennan siblings in
Clannad.  I also got the impression that Enya got her start with them
(although I know she's only on one Clannad album).

After listening to a few tracks I decided to buy the album.  Sounds
very Enya-like, and there is also a track on it that has Bono singing
(since this thread was originally about Enya and U2, I thought I'd
mention that).  Harry's Game is also on it (there's been a lot of
mention about that song, recently, also).

>I'd recommend Sirius as an extremely good Clannad album.

I listened to this album and wasn't impressed.  But then, I was
looking for something that sounded like Enya.

>Cheers,
>Mike

Steve
-- 
Steve Wechsler | zaphod@src4src.linet.org    |    Call Lady Hawke's Castle BBS:
Please respond to my queries via e-mail (post also if you like) | 516-226-4630
because my site purges news much faster than I can keep up with it.
"Watch??  I'm gonna pray, man!  Know any good religions?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: sci10019@nusunix1.nus.sg (YU HONG WEY)
Subject: Record list
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:37:18 GMT


 Enya appeared in the British music scene a few years ago. Her first
 hit, Orinoco Flow, made it to no. 1 in the chart. Her follow-ups,
 although failed to make it high in the charts, were still as good as
 the first. She released a number of tracks from her Watermark album.
 She has an album before that but I'm not sure of the name. Her next one
 was Sheperd Moons, from which the tracks Carribean Blue and How Can I
 Keep From Singing? were released. Her current one is of course The
 Celts. I've only seen her Orinoco Flow and Carribean Blue videos. I
 absolutely love her music.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: sci10019@nusunix1.nus.sg (YU HONG WEY)
Subject: Record list
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:39:51 GMT


 If you are interested in the discussion of Enya's music, you may like
 to know that there's another newsgroup called alt.music.enya. There
 is more response there. Hope to see you there.

Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:135 alt.music.enya:1549
From: carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Carter Bennett)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya,alt.music.enya
Subject: Re: Enya and U2...
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:53:46 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1jnuohINNbrm@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> buzz@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Serge Pontejos) writes:
>Just wondering, are there any other albums that pre-date _The Magical
>Ring_ besides _Dulaman_?  My disc sez _Dulaman_ is dated 1976, and
>_The MAgical Ring_ is dated 1982.  I figure since I answered my own 
>question I thought I'd toss another question your way...

Ahoy, Serge!
  I have had a heck of a time finding stores that stock their albums, but I
shouldn't complain because they're bound to exist here in D/FW.

  The album _Past Present_, a compilation album from RCA, lists a partial
discography, but apparently only the titles available from RCA.  On that sleeve
they list:
   _Magical Ring_ - 1982
   _Atlantic Realm_ - 
   _Legend_  -1984 (some of this is soundtrack for the BBC's _Robin Hood_)
   _Macalla_ - 1985
   _Sirius_  - 1987

  However, on the album _Clannad 2_, (which has a picture on the cover which
obviously predates all the albums I've found), there is a disjoint set of
albums listed on their catalog.  These are on the "Shanachie" label:

   _Clannad 2_ - 19??  (SH79007)  This was reissued in 1988, but obviously
				  predates "Macalla", the earliest I've
				  found.
   _Dulaman_    (SH79008)
   _In Concert_  (SH79030)
   _Crann Ull_  (SH/TA 3007)

   I have a suspicion that all four of these predate 1982, and it may be the
case that Shanachie has the distribution rights (US) for the stuff that
predates RCA's involvement.  Be aware that this is only a guess on my part!

   Also, don't miss out on Maire Brennan's solo album (quite good, IMHO)
that was recently released!  It's simply titled, _Maire_.

   Also, I've noticed that some music stores are filing Clannad under "Rock"
while other stores (sometimes in the same chain) are filing them under
"Regional - Irish".  Sheesh!  I'll even bet someone has them filed under
"New Age".  Good luck finding them.  I also hear they've put out a good 
number of home-release videos, but I have not found any, yet.

Good luck!
-- 
Carter R. Bennett, Jr. - Scientist | "Oh my God!  I _AM_ a nerd!!!"
carter@scilab.lonestar.org - home  | - C. Bennett, Sept 25, 1992, after
carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org - work  | realizing he had been talking about
KI5SR          | "market availability of preconfigured Toll-House cookies."
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Carter Bennett)
Subject: Clannad discography (and a correction)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:07:09 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX


Ahoy, Folks!
   Admittedly, this is not Enya content, so I'll try and keep it to a
minimum.

   There was a query here about Clannad's albums.  I ran over to a local
record store and ran through their computer, called MUSE.  It's kind of a
cross between a automated teller-machine and a PC.  Anyway, I pulled up a
printout on Clannad and got the following:

   Clannad  (see also ENYA; BRENNAN, MAIRE)
   ----------------------------------------

   Anam
   CD / Cassette
   Atlantic
   82409

   Clannad 2
   CD / Cassette
   Shanachie Records
   79007

   Clannad in Concert
   CD / Cassette
   Shanachie Records
   79030

   Crann Ull
   Compact Disc
   Shanachie Records
   3007 

   Dulaman
   CD / Cassette
   Shanachie Records
   79008

   Fuaim
   Compact Disc
   Shanachie Records
   3008

   Macalla
   CD / Cassette
   RCA Records
   8063

   Magical Ring
   CD / Cassette
   Tara
   3010

   Past Present
   CD / Cassette
   RCA Records
   9912

   Past Present [Video]
   Out of Print
   BMG Video
   2039

   Sirius
   CD / Cassette
   RCA Records
   6846

   AS I post this, I realize I should kick myself because this is an
alphabetical listing without dates, and the system I used is also capable
of listing releases chronologically.

   Also, I should point out that this is likely a list of US releases, and
may not be complete internationally.  I note that the MUSE system fails to
list one of the Kate Bush videos that I have.  Thank goodness the net doesn't
miss things like that.

   Finally, Alan G. emailed a kind note to remind me that _Robin of 
Sherwood_, which used a Clannad soundtrack, was an ITV production, NOT 
a BBC production.  My apologies!  That's can happen since we Americans 
see ALL the British shows on Public Television stations.  We kind of lose 
track sometimes.  Thanks, Alan!

Cheerio!
-- 
Carter R. Bennett, Jr. - Scientist | "Oh my God!  I _AM_ a nerd!!!"
carter@scilab.lonestar.org - home  | - C. Bennett, Sept 25, 1992, after
carter@cmptrc.lonestar.org - work  | realizing he had been talking about
KI5SR          | "market availability of preconfigured Toll-House cookies."
Xref: sparky alt.fan.enya:132 alt.music.enya:1528