HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Abdu?
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:58:42 GMT

|> Anybody know what ever happened to Abdujaparov (sp?)
|> 
|> He came out of the woodwork, established himself as probably the world's
|> best sprinter for a year or so, but now it seems like he's faded back
|> into the woodwork again.  I didn't see any news of him in the last TdF
|> or other major stage races.  Is he still around?

He was a contender in some of the early sprint finishes in this year's
TdF.  He was disqualified for failing to make the time cut on one of
the mountain stages, though.  I expect that we'll see more of him next
year.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: machina@uts.amdahl.com (Miguel A. Ramirez)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:29:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Sep11.013731.18507@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>Russ Corfman (corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP) writes:
>
>> Marc San Soucie (marcs@slc.com) writes:
>
>> > our weekly circuit race, which is a short race held on an automobile 
>> > racetrack each Tuesday for 5-6 months in spring and summer. 

>> I wish there was a series at the Phoenix International Raceway or the.
>> Firebird race track. Maybe I ought to get my club to investigate this...
>
>Maybe the USCF ought to work to encourage this. 

Here in NorCal the last couple of years we've had races (Novemeber and April)
at the Laguna Seca Speedway located in Monterey. This course has a deceptive 
(tough) hill, fast descent and some sharp flat turns. It's a great course. 

The biggest complaint is that these races tend to cost more to enter than 
the standard weekend road race. Personaly, I think it's worth it ... can't
remember what they were charging last year.

As for the USCF looking in to this- sounds like a great idea. I think that
it's more an issue for race promoters to look at. 

This year, it's being billed as "Battle of the Champions" sports festival.
To be held 11/7/92 and 11/8/92. Featuring: a circuit race (on the race course),
mtb race (around and on part of the race course), 5/10K run, Duathlon and as 
if this wasn't enough, an inline skate race. 

See ya' there. 
-- 

Miguel A. Ramirez, | machina@uts.amdahl.com | {sun,uunet}!amdahl!machina

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: garrick@owlnet.rice.edu (Garrick F. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Re: womens 1-4
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:44:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep16.012859.7159@slc.com>, marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:

|> In our district, the women are often put into the men's Masters' field in
|> races where the promoters don't expect full women's fields. Cat 4/5 women
|> ride with Cat 4/5 Masters, and 1-3 women with 2/3 Masters.

Whoa!  Your Masters fields are split into 2/3's and 4/5's?  In Texas
there isn't even that luxury!  (To indicate how things are in
"other districts".)

I remember seeing a crit in Illinois where all Women and Masters were
combined--It was a technical course, and by the end I think each rider
was on a different lap (no, this isn't a slam against anybody's
cornering skills).

The sentiment I've seen which I tried to hint at in my last post was
that the only way to really make people happy is to get more women
participating in races so that separating categories is feasible,
if not downright necessary.


Garrick Mitchell
President, Rice University Cycling Team
garrick@owlnet.rice.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:10:09 GMT

Joel D. Jacobson (jake@opus.csd.uwm.edu) writes:

> Marc San Soucie (marcs@slc.com) writes:

> > My motto is: 'Just Say No To Crits'. Useless bloody races. Give me a real 
> > road race any day.

> which leads me to the inevitable question:  how many road races do
> you guys have down there?  around here (WI, IL area), we only get
> about 1 a month or so, everything else is a crit...  take what you
> can get, i suppose...

I haven't got the calendar here with me, but the proportion of road races 
to crits is about 60/40. That ratio is skewed even further if you include 
our weekly circuit race, which is a short race held on an automobile 
racetrack each Tuesday for 5-6 months in spring and summer. This latter is 
a fabulously successful series of races. The course is dead flat, has no 
corners (only auto-drivable curves), is quite wide, and has no traffic. 
Speeds are fast, and most of the time the racing is safe. Since so many 
towns around the country have auto racetracks, clever promoters everywhere 
ought to consider setting up a similar series. I know of two or three other 
towns that have such races (Seattle among them).

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: subject field test
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:43:17 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

this is the test of xrn - please ignore
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Il Giro di San Francisco
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:21:09 GMT

On Labor Day the sixth and final race of the California Cup series was
held.  This edition of the Giro di San Francsico was again held on a
criterium course squeezed between the Fog City Diner and the side of
Telegraph Hill where an apartment house slid off during last Winter's
rainy season.  The paving had been redone on parts of the undulating
half-mile four-turn course but the manhole covers were still
depressed, which unfortunately yield a large number of flats and
pretzeled wheels.

The organizer had offered an incentive to the women to recruit their
friends to ride -- 1 lap would be added for each rider above 10 who
entered.  27 women showed up, so the race was extended to 47 laps.
The race was dominated by riders from the Los Gatos Bicycle Club, who
swept the top 3 (Maureen Kaila, Kim Applegate, and Judy Cox) and
placed 5 in the top 10.

A substantial number of primes were offered for the women and kept
things lively.  While most of the primes were for cash, I was
suspicious about one of them that was for "An hour-long full body
massage by Rub-Daddy."  I asked the organizer whether he thought the
offerer was a real masseur or just a dirty old man.  He admitted that
he wasn't sure.  However, Rub-Daddy also offered a massage as a men's
prime, so at least he works both ways.

The men's race also had a number of cash primes but featured a points
race sprint every 10 laps to determine who would get a frame set
(whatever that is) for a Lemond mountain bike.  There was much
aggressive riding off the front, especially by 37-year-old former
Olympian George Mount.  However, John McKinley of Spago accumulated
enough points to clinch the frame prime even before the last sprint of
the series and placed 2nd at the end, behind Dan Scott and just ahead
of his brother and Spago teammate, Scott McKinley.

The early part of the program featured three Junior races and a public
race for bicycle messengers.  I apologized to the messengers for the
lack of authenticity in their race inasmuch as there were no cars on
the course.

				Top Ten

1.  Maureen Kaila, Los Gatos B.C.	Dan Scott, Waterman
2.  Kim Applegate, Los Gatos B.C.	John McKinley, Spago
3.  Jody Cox, Los Gatos B.C.		Scott McKinley, Spago
4.  Michelle Lee, U.C. Berkeley		Michael Murray, Spectrum
5.  Shari Rogers, Avocet		John Peters, Napa Valley
6.  Margaret Flaherty, Los Gatos B.C.	John Walsh, Velo Avanti
7.  Lauren Anderson, Davis B.C.		Eric Zaltas, Shaklee
8.  Janis Coblentz, Twin Peaks		Robert Nunes, San Jose B.C.
9.  Jennifer Harrison, Davis B.C.	Glen Winkel, Subaru
10. Kelly Bartholomew, Los Gatos B.C.	Declan Logergan, Soft Rider

(From the chief referee)
--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: ozalp@dm.unibo.it (Ozalp Babaoglu)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: indurain wins tour of catalogna
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:20:10 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Bologna, Italy
Originator: ozalp@elettra

in the final stage of the tour of catalogna, indurain was able to control
his immediate rival rominger to win the title.  the stage arriving in san
feliu de guixols after 172km was won by jalabert who beat manzoni in the
sprint.  jalabert is proving to be *the* sprinter around these days.  it
would be interesting to see him against cipollini.

final standings:

1.	indurain
2.	rominger	+19"
3.	martin		+1'18"


-- 
Ozalp Babaoglu					E-mail:	ozalp@dm.unibo.it
University of Bologna, Dept. of Mathematics
Piazza di Porta S. Donato, 5			TEL:	+39 51 354430
40127 Bologna  (ITALY)				FAX:	+39 51 354490
From: drm@esl.com (Don McGregor )
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re:  Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:51:02 GMT
Reply-To: drm@esl.com
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep9.180650.5202@gtephx.UUCP> corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP (Russ  
Corfman) writes:
> These races were always well attended and competetive. I went to one a 
> couple of years ago and a few of the same people from the early 80's
> were still going. Granted the vast majority I'd never met nor had they
> heard of me.

Those weekly races are fun.  the course doesn't even need to vary much.   
There's a certain charm in knowing that everyone's going to bunch up  
elbow-to-elbow on the final lap on the backstretch of Delta Park, go like  
a bat out of hell through the curves, then die on that too-long sprint to  
the finish :-)

The lack of traffic is nice too.  San Diego had a series at Fiesta Island  
for a long while that wasn't closed.  One time we rounded the final curve  
for the downwind sprint and found some tourist poking along at 25 MPH in a  
Runnamucka in the middle of the single lane one-way road. THAT was an  
interesting field sprint.  100 or so racers flying by in the gutter on  
both sides of the motor home while trying to move up a few positions.

The usual suspects do tend to hang out for a while.  I hear David Auker is  
still going. he was a vet even back when I was racing in the early 80's.

--
Don McGregor
drm@esl.com
From: machina@uts.amdahl.com (Miguel A. Ramirez)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Re: Races at car race tracks
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:38:35 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <-204359999@hplred.HP.COM> fitzhugh@hplred.HP.COM (Andrew Fitzhugh) writes:

>Being one who has raced a human-powered bike on Laguna Seca in
>Monterey, I can tell you not too many racers would jump at a chance to
>race there more than once.  

Speak for yourself. I've raced there twice and am looking forward to racing
there in November. Most racers I know like Laguna Seca. 

>That track has a hill which looks like
>nothing for the motorcycles and cars, but is a killer when your legs
>are providing the horsepower.  

Sounds like you need to do a few more hill climbs. Then again, if you got 
rid of that silly hpv, you might just get over that little hill a little faster.
Hpv's were not designed to go uphill. 

>And the awesome corkscrew you see on
>ESPN is an absolutely boring descent when you're going 35-40 mph.

I disagree. Any decsent where you can 45+ mph is not boring. 

>Still, I think you're right that these are good places to have bike
>races.

Good. We agree on one thing. 

>Andrew Fitzhugh
>Computational Color Reproduction
>HP Laboratories
-- 

Miguel A. Ramirez, | machina@uts.amdahl.com | {sun,uunet}!amdahl!machina

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
From: djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly)
Subject: World Championship Road -- Contest Results
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:11:39 GMT

The results of the World Championships are as follows
(San Francisco Chronicle with additional places from
Ozalp):

Women's Team Time Trial

1.  United States	1:03:30.7
2.  France		1:03:43.0
3.  Russia		1:04:16.8
4.  Italy		1:04:28.6
5.  Lithuania		1:04:40.6
6.  Ukraine		1:05:12.5
7.  Netherlands		1:05:16.5
8.  New Zealand		1:05:39.8
9.  Spain		1:06:08.7
10. Norway		1:06:21.0
11. Germany		1:06:29.8
12. Sweden		1:07:04.2
13. Czechoslovakia	1:07:24.5
14. Britain		1:08:08.0


Men's Road Race

1.  Gianni Bugno	6:34:28
2.  Laurent Jalabert
3.  Dmitri Konyshev
4.  Tony Rominger
5.  Steven Rooks
6.  Miguel Indurain
7.  Piotr Ugrumov
8.  Luc LeBlanc
9.  Luc Roosen
10. Jean-Francois Bernard
11. Jens Heppner
12. Fredraco Echave
13. Thierry Claveyrolet
14. Udo Bolts
15. Johan Bruynel
16. Giancario Perini	
17. Gerard Rue		6:34:36
18. Rolf Sorenson	6:36:18
19. Stephen Hodge	6:36:33
20. Engleman 		6:36:36
21. Chiappucci
22. Ghirotto		6:38:40
38. Zulle		6:41:52
40. Fignon
42. Giovanetti
43. Elli
66. Furlan
67. Cassani
69. Chioccioli

(places up to 22 used in contest scoring)

-------------------------------------
The contest results follow.

Women's TTT:
804    From: Garrick F. Mitchell <garrick@owlnet.rice.edu>
Only one entry!

Men's Road Race
978    tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
562    Garrick F. Mitchell <garrick@owlnet.rice.edu>
391    Willem Boersma <WBOERSMA%SARA.NL@forsythe.stanford.edu>
239    "Stewart T. Fleming" <sfleming@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
231    Scott Miloro <MM2J@cornella.cit.cornell.edu>
93     dick@ncs.com ()
62     shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)

Overall (TTT score scaled to match Men's RR):
1540   Garrick F. Mitchell <garrick@owlnet.rice.edu>

The winning picks:
From: Garrick F. Mitchell <garrick@owlnet.rice.edu>
#   pick        place   score   
1   France      2       500     
2   Italy       4       176     
3   Australia   0       0       
4   Germany     11      2       
5   Russia      3       125     
Total Score = 804

From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
#   pick        place   score   
1   Jalabert    2       500     
2   Konyshev    3       353
3   Lino        0       0       
4   Chiappucci  21      0       
5   Indurain    6       125     
6   Roche       0       0       
7   Kelly       0       0       
8   Skibby      0       0       
9   Zulle       38      0       
10  Delgado     0       0       
Total Score = 978

Interestingly, people pretty much showed little faith in Bugno and a
lot of potential points were thereby lost.  Only Garrick had him in
the top two, which gave him second place in the RR.

Thanks to all for the entries.

Dan

-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ozalp@cs.cornell.edu (Ozalp Babaoglu)
Subject: lance armstrong and the worlds (was Re: bugno wins the World)
Organization: Cornell University, CS Dept., Ithaca, NY
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:11:35 GMT

i watched the entire race live on italian tv (covered on two
different channels).  armstrong (nor any other american) was
ever involved in any of the actions.  in fact, i hardly saw
any american jerseys among the front of the pack during the
entire race.  i see only two americans (engleman 20th and hampsten
65th) that finished in the top 80 positions.
 
if armstrong was involved in a crash, it was reported neither in
the tv coverage nor in the press.  the only crash that i saw was
during the 3rd lap that involved cenghialta.  he eventually
dropped out due to the pain in his right wrist.
 
this hype about armstrong in the worlds is reminiscent of that
surrounding him during the olympic road race.

-- 
Ozalp Babaoglu					E-mail:	ozalp@cs.cornell.edu
Dept. of Computer Science
4130 Upson Hall, Cornell University		TEL:	+1 607 255-5418
Ithaca, New York 14853-7501 (USA)		FAX:	+1 607 255-4428
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: USCF category upgrading proposal
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:23:04 GMT

In case you are interested, here is a revised legislative proposal
that I plan to offer to the USCF Board for upgrading rider categories
based on performance.  Given that this proposal incorporates ideas
from three r.b denizens, I plan to submit it over the names of Daniel
Connelly, Jim Warsa and me unless either Dan or Jim object.

[Replace the proposed Item B31b with the following.]

[B31b] In Bylaw J, Section 6 (Categories of Riders), replace Part 3
with the following and delete Part 6 (qualifying races).

  Part 3. Upgrading by Performance.
  (a) Riders accumulate upgrading points in their category in qualifying
  as follows:
  (1) First place gets one point for every 10 riders in the race in
      the rider's category or higher;
  (2) Second place gets 2 points less that first, but not less than 0;
  (3) Third and following places get 1 point less than the preceding
      place but not less than 0.
  These are overall race placings, not placings within categories.
  A rider who accumulates 15 such points in the preceding 12 months
  shall be upgraded to the next higher category, if any.

  (b) A qualifying race for the purpose of upgrading road categories
  is one of the following races that is not a handicap, club, or
  training race.
  (1) Individual road races at least 100 km. long for men or 70 km.
      for women.
  (2) Criteriums at least 40 km. long for men or 32 km. for women.
  (3) Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned both
      in qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.

Submitted by Daniel Connelly, Jim Warsa & Les Earnest.

Instead of having a sharp cutoff on points depending on whether a
given race meets field size standards, this proposal provides a
variable number of upgrading points depending on the number of
competitors in the rider's category or higher.

It also permits riders to earn upgrading points in qualifying collegiate
races as well as in races with riders of lower categories provided that
there are enough competitors in the rider's category or higher.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 00:36:58 GMT

Part of the upgrading proposal that I posted earlier says:
>  (b) A qualifying race for the purpose of upgrading road categories
>  is one of the following races that is not a handicap, club, or
>  training race.
>  (1) Individual road races at least 100 km. long for men or 70 km.
>      for women.
>  (2) Criteriums at least 40 km. long for men or 32 km. for women.
>  (3) Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned both
>      in qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.

John Ampe remarks:
>I would love to see longer races (in all categories), but I see a big
>problem here for categories 3 and 4, at least in New England.  Of the
>27 USCF cat. 3 and 4 races I did last year, not a single one would
>qualify based on distance.  This includes all the major New England
>one-day and stage races.  [.  .  .]

A valid point.  I hesitate to make the proposal still more
complicated, but perhaps cases (1) and (2) should read as follows.
  (1) Individual road races of at least the following distances.
	Category	Men	Women
	   2		100 km.	 70 km.
	   3		 80	 60
	   4		 60	 50
	   5		 50
  (2) Criteriums of at least the following distances.
	Category	Men	Women
	   2		 40 km.	 35 km.
	   3		 35	 30
	   4		 30	 25
	   5		 25

>[.  .  .]   Another consideration is the role of climbing.  For
>example, the Brandon Gap stage of the Killington Stage Race (being run
>today!) is only 45 miles, but with about 3500 feet of climbing is one
>of the most legendary among cat. 3 and 4 riders.  Mount Evans is less
>than 30 miles.  Mount Washington is 7.6 miles.

John is right, of course, but if this gets much more complicated it is
likely to be rejected on aesthetic grounds.  If one believes the UCI
stage race distance limits as a function of altitude climbed, then the
minimum distance in men's road races should be reduced by somewhere
between 2 and 10 km. for each 100 meters of climbing, but I don't know
whether their very nonlinear table is based on physiological
measurements or old coaches tales.

>It may make sense to start with distances now that at least
>approximate the average race distance for each class, and then
>gradually increase that distance over a period of years.

Sounds reasonable.  I invite comments on the tables suggested above.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP (Russ Corfman)
Subject: Races at car race tracks, was: Re:  Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:06:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.001009.7415@slc.com>, marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
> 
> I haven't got the calendar here with me, but the proportion of road races 
> to crits is about 60/40. That ratio is skewed even further if you include 
> our weekly circuit race, which is a short race held on an automobile 
> racetrack each Tuesday for 5-6 months in spring and summer. This latter is 
> a fabulously successful series of races. The course is dead flat, has no 
> corners (only auto-drivable curves), is quite wide, and has no traffic. 
> Speeds are fast, and most of the time the racing is safe. Since so many 
> towns around the country have auto racetracks, clever promoters everywhere 
> ought to consider setting up a similar series. I know of two or three other 
> towns that have such races (Seattle among them).

I agree with this. I started racing in Seattle in 1979 and there was always
the summer training series on Wednesday nights at SIR (Seattle International
Raceway). There is a number of course variations that can be used on the 
track. Reversing direction, going up and down the drag strip or around the
whole course, including the bailout straight and so on. This track also has
a nice little roller in it too, which is nice.

These races were always well attended and competetive. I went to one a 
couple of years ago and a few of the same people from the early 80's
were still going. Granted the vast majority I'd never met nor had they
heard of me.

I wish there was a series at the Phoenix International Raceway or the.
Firebird race track. Maybe I ought to get my club to investigate this...

Ciao,
-- 
Russell Corfman
AG Communication Systems; Phoenix, AZ
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!corfmanr
Internet: gtephx!corfmanr@enuucp.eas.asu.edu
(602) 581-4403


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject:  subject field test
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:11:31 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

please ignore - yet another xrn test
--