From: barb@sq.sq.com (Barbara Burrows)
Subject: Re: Sleep Question (Please no Ferber)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:20:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.174639.9902@Princeton.EDU> Lisa S. Lewis <lisas@pucc.princeton.edu> writes:
>In article <29316@optima.cs.arizona.edu> Beth Weiss,
>bweiss@cs.arizona.edu writes:
>>> dmac@julia.math.ucla.edu (saki) writes:
>>
>>>I personally made the choice that progressively teaching
>>>the child to sleep on its own by letting it cry was not for me. Nor for
>>>my son, who is now 13 months.
>>
>>If I recall your original post, your child didn't sleep through the
>>night until he was 10 months old, long past the point where he needed
>>night nutrition, even if he was hungry.
>>
>>Diane Lin asked if you'd read Ferber's book.  I bought it last week,
>>read it, and implemented the procedure (although we couldn't handle
>>the 5/10/15/15 minute intervals, and went more like 3/5/5/10/10 and
>>then didn't need another one)
>
>
>I have read Ferber, have used Ferber, SWEAR by Ferber (just so you know
>up front where I'm coming from :) )  I had to "Ferberize" my older child
>three times, when infections or whatever disturbed his sleep pattern.
>With my younger son we've been very lucky (so far.)  I never had to nurse
>or rock him to sleep. He seemed to prefer going into his bed awake, and
>he settles himself very well.  He's 13 months old.
>
>If someone can't stand using Ferber's technique, that's their business,
>though as Beth Weiss points out the intervals can be as short as you want
>them. 
>
>But there is another consideration here.  If you don't mind getting up
>once or twice or TEN times a night, great.  I always felt (after my son
>was about seven months old) that I simply could not go to work all day,
>and then take care of him in the evening, if I didn't get at least seven
>hours of undisturbed sleep.   I used this technique because I HAD to get
>more sleep!  What always surprises me are the posters to this list who
>are dying to get a night's rest, but can't bear two minutes of screaming
>for a couple of nights.  No pain no gain!  I  realized that the original
>poster is looking for a painless way to get their child to sleep through
>the night.  To my knowledge, it doesn't exist.  And that's why these
>postings are *always* followed by a flood of Ferber articles.  But Ferber
>is the kindest method I've ever read.  
>
>I used 5/10/15 minute intervals.  With our son, this NEVER took more than
>three nights.  For me, it was well worth the extra rest.  As I said, if
>you can cope with the exhaustion than fine.  But if you can cope with it,
>you wouldn't be posting to misc.kids to begin with, right?
>
>I guess my point is that if you can deal with getting up with your baby,
>then the heck with Ferber (or Leach or anyone else.)  But if you have a
>child who doesn't NEED to nurse at night, and you do need to get some
>rest, you'll be amazed at how quickly your child will learn to put
>himself to sleep on his own.  And this *isn't* cruel.  Babies who get
>uninterrupted rest are happier babies, in my opinion.  Or at least, mine
>was.  And what's tolerable (say once a night) at a year might seem less
>acceptable as time goes on.  A woman I know swore this method was cruel,
>and her son didn't stop waking up in the middle of the night until he was
>almost four.		
>
>Lisa Lewis
>
>P.S. This caused a terrible argument with my husband, the first night we
>did it.  Our son had been sleeping through the night for months and then
>boom...he woke up one night and he was into a new pattern.  My husband (a
>softie) said he didn't want to let Sam cry.  I told him, ok, then YOU
>deal with him and I'll stay in bed.  He decided maybe it wasn't such a
>bad idea after all. And when it only took three nights he was a firm
>believer.
>
>I also believe that it is true, as Ferber states, that the longer you let
>the pattern go on, the longer it will take to "cure".  A six month old
>learns to sleep by himself in a couple of days...at a year it would
>probably take a little longer.

	And....to add my few cents worth (and my apologies to the
	misc.kidder I wrote to a few months ago and told I COULDN'T
	let my baby cry and so went to him and comforted...rocked...
	walked....him back to sleep...and I thought I'd do it for
	as long as it would take because he was only going to be
	a baby for a short time and I could handle it...NOT!).

	Jordan has just turned 15 months old.  Except for a few short
	spurts he has never slept through on his own.  He started to
	and then got a cold.....then....well, major sigh.....and then
	a few months later he was beginning to again.....I gave him
	another cold...and...yeah, right....well.  I didn't think
	I could ever just let him cry...but over the holidays after
	teething four teeth for about two weeks of misery....he had
	gotten into the pattern of waking up four or five times a
	night and needing one of us to go in and pat him or pick him
	up and walk him before he'd go back to sleep.  All I could
	think of was January 4th I'm back at work....leave the house
	by 7:30am and don't get home until about 6:30pm....if we let
	this situation continue I'd be a wreck (as it was...after two
	weeks of this I was very irritable...getting dizzy...disoriented).
	And so it all came crashing down New Years Eve....completely
	unplanned actually (although I had read everything there was
	to read on this subject).  Jordan woke at 12:30....at 1:15...
	at 2:20....at 3:15.....we tried everything....but he wasn't
	in pain...he wasn't hungry...he wasn't wet....he wasn't cold...
	or hot.....he just needed us to put him back to sleep.  We
	decided we had to leave him.  

	He cried for 32 minutes (yes, I timed him) and fell asleep sort
	of doing that heartrending sniffling....gulping thing in his 
	sleep.  My husband went in and covered him up...he said I was very
	brave to have stayed with it.....I was in bed crying (major 
	wimp city)....and trying to get my heartbeat back to normal.  
	The next two nights.....he slept through...!!! The
	third night he woke up....I went to him.....he handed me his
	blanket and stood up for me to pick him up.....this was very
	hard for me.....I put him back down....he stood up....I put
	him back down......all the while saying "This is Jordan's
	sleepy time....it's time for sleep."  He finally stayed down but
	started to cry as soon as I left.  He cried for about five minutes
	and then half-heartedly whinishly for about 10 minutes (12 actually,
	I told you I was timing every minute).  No sobbing or gulping...
	just peaceful sleep.  He's slept through since....that's three
	more nights.  Interestingly enough....I haven't.....I think he's
	got me trained....but I'm getting better.  I certainly feel
	much better.  
	
	A couple of things.  I think we did this because we were ready
	to do it.....my husband had been ready for months!....and, in
	a way, I think Jordan was ready for it....almost relieved in a
	weird way....but I guess the bottom line is that I was ready
	to do it.  And I felt better being able to talk to him
	and knowing that he understood. I think (obviously)
	that I wasn't comfortable with the idea of leaving him at
	six or seven...I guess even eight or nine months....I wanted
	him to understand....as much as possible anyway.  Also, I'm 
	very happy this only took one awful night (the second one 
	wasn't so bad)....but, I suppose I had reached my limit and 
	would have pressed on if it would have taken a week....but I 
	can't say that for sure having a tendency to lean toward wimpdom.  
	Maybe it's not so much wimpdom but just wanting to do the
	most right thing for my little guy....
	I will say that no-one I've talked to who has taken this route 
	has had to contend with crying for a week.  It seems the norm is 
	about three nights....  tapering off....the first night being 
	the worst.

	I'm hoping I haven't jumped the gun with saying it's done now...
	and he's sleeping through.....but I think I can.  And, there's
	a wonderful lack of night terror on the adults part in our house.
	
	Just a few cents from the newly converted.

					|
					|  Hush little baby.....
Barbara					|