HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Well, well... (last)
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:21:04 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan8.121745.7150@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>My comment here was that Christianity (the west) has no analogous activity to
>eastern meditation to derive meaning.  It is an essential distinction.

Omphaloskepsis.

For someone who has all the answers, you sure don't seem to know very much.

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Origin of Western Thinking Process
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:16:14 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan12.185740.11422@ttinews.tti.com> reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.120739.822@hls.com> silatman@hls.com writes:
>>
>>                  THE ORIGIN OF WESTERN THINKING PROCESS:
>
>I assume that this was intended as a followup to the earlier
>thread about "fighting words".

Nope...if it were, he would have put "thinking" in quotes...

Steve
From: renault@CAM.ORG (Pierre Renault)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji and Tai Chi.....
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:26:16 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
: In article <1ilidoINNb55@lester.appstate.edu> GRS00037@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Blackie) writes:
: >Could someone please inform one of the less informed (myself) about the 
: >difference between Taiji and Tai Chi?-
: 
: There is no difference.  "T'ai Chi Ch'uan" and "Taijiquan" are just two
: different ways of romanizing the same Mandarin term.  (c.f. ongoing Pinyin 
: thread).
: 
: The term translates roughly as "boxing (ch'uan) according to the principle of
: the ultimate harmony of yin and yang (t'ai chi)."
: 
: Common usage often drops the "ch'uan".
: 
: 
: 
: -- 
:   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
:   Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
:                                         INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
: -- 
:   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
:   Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
:                                         INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji and Tai Chi.....
Date: 9 Jan 1993 07:35:03 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1ilidoINNb55@lester.appstate.edu> GRS00037@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Blackie) writes:
>Could someone please inform one of the less informed (myself) about the 
>difference between Taiji and Tai Chi?-

There is no difference.  "T'ai Chi Ch'uan" and "Taijiquan" are just two
different ways of romanizing the same Mandarin term.  (c.f. ongoing Pinyin 
thread).

The term translates roughly as "boxing (ch'uan) according to the principle of
the ultimate harmony of yin and yang (t'ai chi)."

Common usage often drops the "ch'uan".



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray)
Subject: Re: Martial arts and the gut
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:44:57 GMT

In <C0CIDI.D7s@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> giguere@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Giguere) writes:

[..]

>Any opinions on this?  Is getting rid of fat and building muscles up in
>and around the stomach area good or bad?

It has been mentioned in other responses that good abdominal
development is vital for athletics.  Some Chinese martial arts
disciplines posit that all power comes from the abdomin.  I agree
that you should do all of the abdominal exercises that you can
reasonably do in a day along with your other training, with the
stretching caveats discussed elsewhere.

However, good abdominal development and trim wasteline do not
necessarily go hand in hand.  I am sure that many pot-bellied masters
have excellent muscle development, it may just be covered by fat, or
the muscles may be bulky.  In addition, as we grow older the skin
begins to sag there regardless of what we do.

If you want to trim fat you can do crunches and other abdominal
exercises 'til the cows come home, but you will burn very little fat.
In order to have a trim wasteline you need to do aerobic exercise
such as running or swimming which is very efficient for this purpose,
and control your diet.  This is what body builders typically do just
before an event in order to that "cut" look.

brian

-- 
/***************************************************************
* Brian T. Murray          |   LEARN something new every day   *
*                          |   DO some good with what you know *
* GM Research Laboratories |                                   *
***************************************************************/

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Haji Firoz)
Subject: Re: Martial arts and the gut
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 01:13:15 GMT

I have been involved in  other sports not just martial arts and I know that
runing 3 times a week, situps every day (200) and less fat diet and not
drinking beer have helped me to keep my belly fit and strong.
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji question - long form versus short forms
Date: 8 Jan 1993 06:32:10 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

  RE  My query about the number of movements in Ch'en's form
      as opposed to Ch'eng's form.

yehd@ACF1.NYU.EDU writes:
  +
  +Chen's 60 movement form is actually exactly the same as
  +Cheng's 37 posture form.  Only Chen breaks down the steps
  +differently, to emphasize each movement.  For instance,
  +"single whip" isn't just one step, it's composed of 3 separate
  +movements.

I see.  I never did compared them close enough to tell.  Makes
sense.  Perhaps that's why that fellow has a Wu style short 
form with about 108 movements and something like 280 movements
in the long form.

  +Chen did, however, raise the center of gravity of Cheng's
  +style and made it otherwise look, well, ugly.  Doesn't
  +win forms competitions, but does wonders for practical
  +applications :)

So I've heard :-).

Terry Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Yeah, right.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: Hapkido
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:43:03 GMT

haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dwight A. Haworth) writes:
>mentioned the belt, the short stick (about twelve inches of white oak
>on a leather thong), and the cane.  My question is to all students of
>Hapkido: what weapons are taught in your style?

>My own study was in Korea.  There we studied the short stick first,
>then the belt, then the cane, and somewhere (5 to 6th dan) the shinai (sp?)
>(long sword).


>Happy New Year

>Dwight A. Haworth
>CBA  UN at Omaha

I studied hapkido in Korea, too (Inchon and Suwon). The weapons we used
were knives, umbrellas, belts, ballpoint pens, chopsticks, rocks, chairs,
and rolled up periodicals.  Most of the training was empty-handed, though.

> 
-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
From: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kicking someone's xxx.
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:23:28 GMT
	<1993Jan4.133035.1602@ms.uky.edu>
	<MARY.93Jan4141431@martinique.Cayman.COM>
Organization: Information Engineering
In-reply-to: mary@Cayman.COM's message of 4 Jan 93 19:14:30 GMT

>Regarding Re: Kicking someone's xxx.; mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) adds:
 > Nntp-Posting-Host: martinique
 > In article <1993Jan4.133035.1602@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
 >    In article <BSIMON.92Dec30114651@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
 >    I also mention that a person does not have to strike you to commit assault - 
 >    indeed, once she does, she has committed "assault and battery". 
 > Right.  This, I think, is what they mean by "fighting words"...but it 
 > doesn't have to be this direct, either.

 hmm, I was staying with a friend over the holidays, and her sister is in the
 British Army- I was told that someone had to be struck 3 times before
 retaliation could be construed as self-defence.

 Is this true? Does it only apply to

 a) The UK
 b) British Soldiers?

 Personally I doubt it since I can easily imagine someone knocking out
 their opponent with one punch, let alone having 3 goes.
 Perhaps the defender can block and attempt to leave the scene for 
 3 *attempted* hits before being legally allowed to strike back?

 Paul
--

   "woof, bloody woof"     | Internet: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.u
    -Gaspode The Wonder Dog| JANET   : ssammy@uk.ac.strath.cs
   (not an old girlfriend) |
Copy this line into your .signature to protect it against viruses! [version -9]
From: rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Science and Chi
Date: 8 Jan 1993 23:41:20 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu



Well, I finally caught up with all the post from the last couple of
weeks I've been particularily amused by the posts on science and chi.
There seems to be a belief that 'western science' and 'eastern science'
refuse to meet each other on the other's terms.  Well that simply is
not true.  Both sides do try to apply the philosphies of the other in
there approaches.  Listed are -

-Some very well respected U.S. research journals that have
	articles on  acupuncture (some titles)

-Some chinese journals containing research (western style
	science)  on acupuncture and chi (or qi) - It is hard
	for me to know how well the journals are respected, since I know
	little about that (unlike the american journals which I know quite a
	bit about since I'm currently in research).  I assume these journals
	are internationally recognized, since I found them on a medicince
	school library search.

First - some journal that the library at Baylor College of medicine
recieves (a highly ranked med school)

	Acupuncture and electro-therapeutics research (I like this one)
	American Journal of Chinese Medicine
	American Journal of clinical biofeedback
	American Journal of acupuncture (ei The treatment of
		Fibiocystic Disease of the breast by acupuncture :A report on 57		 cases)
------------------------
Nature 
Ann NY Acad of Science
Exp. Neurology
Archives of Neurology ('89 46(9) p.1010
Life Science ('74 15(7) p1277
Clinical Neurology and Neurosurgery
PAIN ('91 45(2) p135)
European Heart Journal
Anaesthesia ('90 45 (6) p 480)
J of general psycology
American Journal of Veterinary research
Int. Anesthesiology cliince
Clinical Electroencephalography
Headachs
Brain Research Bull ('92 29(2) p157 Activation of the satcity center
	by ausicular acupuncture point stimulation --I like this article
Journal of urology - '88 140(3) p.563 -another good article
Kardiologiia (russian)
Radioliogiia (russian)
 
--------------------------

Chung Hsi I chieh ho tsa chih chinese journal of modern development in
	traditional medicine (appears to have good articles -in chinese so I'm
	not sure)
Chen - Tzu - Yen Chiu ('89 14(3) p 389-94 - Investigation on the
	biophysical features of strong luminescence phenomean in the 14
	channels of human body

--------------------------
There appears to be other other good articles on qi in these journals.



I have little more to add (although, as a neuroscientist, I have my own
 theory of qi).

	Acupuncture and medians are not well understood but lets not
forget that 100 years ago no one understood sodium-potassium pumps but
we still used the leafs of the foxglove plant (digitalis) to help
people with congestive heart failure.  There is more than enough room
for western and eastern science and both are presently meeting.

I could post articles abstracts on qi if anyone is interested

:)
Ross

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Wary about pre-class workouts (*puff puff*)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:43:15 GMT

In article <C0o56L.EFD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Well, I start hapkido tomorrow.  I'm worried, because in most classes
>I've seen, they have workouts before class.. crunches, jumping jacks,
>pushups, etc.. and I'm not in good shape at all.  I'm young (18), so
>isn't it a low chance I'll damage my heart?  I'm not fat at all, just
>out of shape. :)  My exercise is walking around, that's about it.

Sam, don't worry.  The hapkido classes around here are not strenuous
at all.  In fact, after the first few classes you'll probably want to
add an hour for warm-up before class.  During that warm up, you could
spend about a half hour doing push-ups, crunches, and running, then
15+ minutes stretching, and then whatever time is left over thinking
about the upcoming workout. 

On the other hand, Don DID mention that he would be upping the
crunches this semester, so wait until after the first class to see
how you do.  And don't worry about being out of shape, I was a lard
bucket when I started, and I actually have a few muscles now.  :)

Dakin
Burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: pinyin (D. Johnson)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:45:00 EST

11-Jan-93 18:30	david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)	Re: Well, well, well...

>The characters for air and to eat do not have the same tone in
>Mandarin.  Air is a falling tone, to eat is a high tone.  Regardless
>of the tone they are completely different sounds.

One point I raised was that there probably is no optimal representation of two
or three different sounds when romanized.  I am perfectly aware of the
problem, I disagreed with the solution.   My contention was that there simply
is no way of representing these variations in tone in writing.  I am familiar
only with Persian, and I know it is impossible.   It is impossible to tell the
pronunciation of words that are written in Farsi proper, unless there are
diacritical markings that provide the hint--often these are left off.

>Does Peter really
>think that Pinyin was designed for use by English speakers only?  English
>speakers are only a small minority in this world.

I didn't really think anything.  I didn't know.  Mea Culpa.  Put my balls in a
vice.  Gee whiz.
From: trose@next.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Need recommendation for book on stretching!
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:35:20 GMT
Reply-To: trose@next.com

In article <1i9i7kINNm1t@travis.csd.harris.com> brad@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM  
(Brad Appleton) writes:
> I am looking for a good book on stretching for mobility and
> flexibility.  I have one that looks good called "Mobility training for


the best that I have come across is a tape from
the Health for Life (corp?.).  It is called 
Synerstretch.  It deals with exactly what you
are looking for.  HFL is known for looking at 
what successful athletes across many sports/activities
(including MA) do for training.  They then try
to understand, anatomically, why it works, then
they make it into a program.   I have been very
pleased with their products and professionalism.

You can reach HFL at 1-800-874-5339

tracy in boston
trose@next.com
From: renault@CAM.ORG (Pierre Renault)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji and Tai Chi.....
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:55:36 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

My apologies for the blanks, and my thanks to Robert here at cam.org for 
the help explaining vi to me.

In a reply to an original post regarding a question regarding "tai chi chuan"
vs "taijiquan" a comment was stating that "tai chi chuan" means: the boxing
style in harmony with the principles of ying and yang. - My apologies to the 
original poster and reply-er for msiquotes and not having their names current.

Nevertheless, I wish to add my 2 cents.

Taijiquan does not have anything to do with taoism.

Th"tai" has as a radical (root) the word ta"  "Ta" is associated with
bigness, excess, largeness.  A point is added to make "tai" which, as an 
adverb, means "too, excessively, very".

"Ji" (chi) means "clever, powerful" as an adjective.

"Quan" (chuan, ch'uan) means boxing-style as everyone knows.

So, you get, "very powerful boxing-style"

It is quite likely that Chen taijiquan developped quite independently of
taoism, and probably predates it.  Though one can analyse taiji with tao, 
the two are seperate.  One can analyse many things with tao, but that doesn't make that "art" in harmony with the principles of tao.

Chen and Yangf are martial arts, taoism is a philosophy.  There is a 
difference.

(Reference source: General Chinese- English Dictionary, Chung Hwa, Hong Kong,
1979)

A
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Gracie
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:04:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From article <1993Jan8.092928.14441@aber.ac.uk>, by azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward):
> In a one-on-one, in a situation where you are only interested in preventing
> yourself from getting broken, not in damaging the aggressor, the ground is a 
> good place to be. It is difficult for a standing person to close with someone
> on the ground without risk. There are those who 'go to ground'
> as first resort in this situation. Usually both parties walk away unharmed.
> 
> I have no idea how this relates to Gracie, whatever that may be. (So tell me?)

If someone's trying to kick my ass, I don't want to be on the ground
with him standing up.  That's one problem I have with what I've seen
in Model Mugging: they teach women to go to the ground and fight from
there.

The Gracie strategy is NOT to go to the ground alone and fight
from there, but to close the distance, clinch, and take the
attacker down.  Once they've got you on the ground they are
like fish in water.

If you are familiar with Gracie JJ (or any grappling arts) you know
that this can be a powerful strategy.  However, in the "real world"
of broken glass, knives, and multiple attackers, I prefer to try
ending the fight with a few quick standing techniques before going
to the ground.  (If for no other reason but that it helps to soften
them up and break their spirit.) But taking someone to the ground
can be pretty decisive if that person isn't familiar with that dimension.

Al Tino
tino@globe2.ATT.COM
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: japanese term
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:43:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <sandacz.726507794@gargoyle> sandacz@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Kay Sandacz) writes:
>Does anyone know a collective term in Japanese for shinai, bokken,
>jo, bo, tanto, and the like?  We call them weapons in English.

"heiki" and "buki" mean "weapons", but I have no idea whether they can proper-
ly be used to refer to "practice weapons", or whether their usage is restricted
to the "real thing".

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in Palo Alto area
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:46:10 GMT

jcohen@uucp (Jeff Cohen) writes:

>The class schedule changed this year.  More classes are being offered in the
>south bay and at his studio in SF.  The south bay schedule is:
>Monday evenings: Long Fist, Chen Tai Chi
>Wed evenings: xing-i, bagua, tai chi, and a short weapons class.
>Fri evenings: Long Fist, Six Harmony Mantis (Terry has an extra harmony :-)
>	      and baji
>There are afternoon classes for Long Fist, mantis, baji and weapons on sundays,
>in addition to the bagua, tai chi, and xing-i that Terry mentioned.  You
>can call the school for more information at (415) 326-8253, or send me email.

>	Jeff Cohen

Thanks, I think I'll keep this public since others are asking. Where is
the school, and how could we get a peek?
-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts