From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Who cares what whites think about racism ?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:21:09 GMT

In article <BP95VB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>	>Dowdy Jackson writes:
>	>as AfAms, why do we care what white people think about racism 
>	>in America ? 
>	
>Because you want to set a good example for whites, perhaps?  If you go        
>around saying "who cares what whites think about racism," you're simply
>providing an excuse for some white person to reverse the situation, and
>say, "who cares what blacks think about racism."  That's why.

So what ! I don't care if whites say that. Many seem to have that attitude anyway.

>
>	>We as AfAms know perfectly well what the condition of race 
>	>relations are.  
>	
>You don't speak for any black person other than yourself.  For you to        
>imply that you carry some sort of proxy is disingenuous.  Okay, I'm
>calling your bluff:  Who else do you speak for?
>
I am obviously speaking about myself but I am also relaying some experiences
that many AfAms have had.

>	>Whites don't live in our world so they don't understand what we 
>	>have do deal with on a daily basis. 
>	
>We, we, we.  You speak only for Dowdy Jackson.
>
Grow up....

>What a load of horse manure.  Many typical blacks talk to whites all the        
>time, and recount their trials and tribulations with these whites.  You
>don't need to be black to understand racism, just like you don't need
>to be a drug addict to understand the problems surrounding drug addiction.
>
True, but you need to have been personally involved either in drugs or with]
someone involved in drugs to know what its like, otherwise you can only
intellectualize.

>	>There has been TV show after TV show which clearly shows that 
>	>whites are indeed treated far better than AfAms 
>	
>The NBA on NBC isn't one of them, I guess.  Stop whining and make some        
>sort of suggestion for improvement, for chrissake.
 
Of course you would call this whining but seems to me you have done a great
seal of whining previously. But this is childish ! I am just simply stating
a fact. I really don't see you offering any suggestions yourself.

>
>	>but whites will argue tooth and nail to the contrary. 
>	
>Perhaps because people like you lump all blacks into one category, and        
>lump all whites into another category.  Separatism that FarraKKKhan
>would be proud of.

Seperatism ? I never called for this but it is obvious that this is what
ameriKKKa wants for AfAms. Many AfAms had to die just so that we could
have equal access to many all white institutions and privlages of
an american citizen. When many AfAms decide that we have had enough of
being abused and disrespected by whites and wake up and decide to do what
whites, asians and many new immagrents do which is to support our own, then
many whites, like yourself, look at that as being seperatist. If that is whar
you want to call it then so be it. I prefer to call it survival.

>
>	>Of course many whites say that they understand that racism still 
>	>exists but of course they themselves are not racist. 
>	
>Of course many blacks say that whites are racist, even though no white        
>person in this country ever owned a slave.  You can't just go around
>calling someone a racist without any evidence to back up your claim.
>Well you can, but you won't be taken seriously, either by blacks or
>by whites.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that all racist own slaves ! I guess the KKK 
members aren't racists after all....
>
>	>For a white person to be an ally of AfAms meant that they had 
>	>to risk their lives.  To me these whites are not racist.
>
>Oh, so a white person must "risk his life" to be a non-racist?  What
>have you ever done to risk your life in favor of civil rights?  I
>didn't see you taking on the looters in LA after the Rodney King
>verdict.  You're possibly a racist?  Oops, I forgot...a black man
>CAN'T be a racist.  You're protected from this, due to your own
>self-serving definition of the word.  My mistake.
>
Of course since you can't come up with anything reasonable you have to
resort to this childish arguement. It is painfully clear that as a white
man you don't have one iota of what its like to be an AfAm male in 
this country. Since this is the case, how can you even get upset about
how an AfAm male feels when he doesn't have favorable things to say
about how this country treats AfAms ?
     The point I am trying to make is that it is easy for whites to say
that they aren't racist but where is the proof ? Man klansmen say that they
aren't racists either. When violence against AfAms was commonplace, any white
that objected to AfAms being mistreated placed him/herself at risk. Now whites
who don't have a fit if one or two AfAms move next to them think that they
aren't racists despite thet fact that their attitudes suggest otherwise.

>	>But now days whites can say that they are not racist because 
>	>they know that there is no way to test them on this point. 
>	
>And you can call any white person racist, without any evidence whatsoever,        
>because you feel like it?
>	

No actually there are stats to support such an assertion. For example many whites
argue that AA is taking away their jobs but the fact is that this isn't true
at all. Another fact is that when the AfAm population in a white area reaches
about 8 %, many whites decide that its time to move becuase there are too many
AfAms there, eventhough this isn't close to the 11.9 or 12 % that AfAms        
represent as a whole in this country.

>	>No one will try to kill them for supporting AfAms in their quest 
>	>for equality.  
>	
>No, but many blacks (yourself included) will say, "we don't want or need        
>your help.  We're not babies.  We want to take care of things ourselves!"
>I've heard this argument before.  What the hell is the typical white
>person SUPPOSED to do?

Actually, I find this to be funny, since you don't know me how can you say 
how or what I would say or do ? Sounds like you are making a generalization..
Isn't that what you accused me of doing previously ???
     I think that if you really cared about helping get rid of racism, the first
thing to do would be to LISTEN... As a white man, you can only intellectualize
what is like to be an AfAm in america. Just like as a man I can only intellectualize what women have to go through in this country.

>      
>     >Whites will never admit to being racists 
>     
>Many blacks won't even admit that it's POSSIBLE for a black person to be 
>a racist.  You sound like a broken record.  Whites are racist.  Blacks 
>CAN'T be racist.  Never more.  Braaarrrghhhh!  Polly wanna cracker?
>
Why can't what you would call black racism, be looked at as a response to
the racism AfAms experience ? If someone hits you and you hit them back, 
would you call it reverse violence or self defense ?

>--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)
>
Dowdy Jackson