HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hgs@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Harry Salvini)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:40:45 GMT

In article <nestabro.721489742@nova>, nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
> 
> math1rb@jane.uh.edu (92F07486) writes:
> 
> > Well what I say is let your kid listen to what they want. Take an interest
> >in it, after all he'll listen to it just to spite ya. Like someone once
> >said some of the most christian people they knew weren't Christians.
> 
> Yeah, and if he wants to go out and have sex, buy him condomes.  (Yes, I 
> realize this is sarcasm, and I ask for forgiveness in advance, but 
> Scripture teaches us to "train up our child in the way he should go", not
> let him go out and do what he wants, especially if we know it could be
> harmful.

A couple of years ago, I attended a seminar about music by Al Minccioni (sp?)
at a local church (Fremont, CA Assembly of God).

His talk was very thought provoking in that he mentioned a GAP between the
"older" and "younger" generations.  If I tell my teenager that he can't
listen to some particular music, or can't do something, that will generally
produce some type of rebellion, which won't solve the problem.

On the other hand, as Noel states, when we "train up our child", that must
be done while he is yet a young child, not influenced by the "world".

My suggestion is to go over the music with him/her, reading the words and ask
the question: "is this what you want to live by?", and if so, discuss why you
disagree.

The point is, keep the communication open, don't be a stumbling block in your
kids mind.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| -+-  hgs@wdl1.wdl.loral.com -- Kathy's Hubby & Jonathan's Daddy  O O |
|  |    BTW: LORAL doesn't have anything to do with my opinions.    v  |
|  |               I came up with them all on my own.              \_/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:21:05 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu (Leslie Hartten) writes:
|> paula@helix.nih.gov (Paula Moore) writes:
|> >Judy and others who let the kids decide what to eat, would a request for
|> >a cookie for breakfast every day be honored? 
|> 
|> Well, I suppose if we ever get around to having kids this will be an
|> interesting question to deal with.  My *husband* has a cookie or two
|> after breakfast every day!!!

Matt (adult) puts chocolate syrup on his oatmeal, where a normal person 
would use milk. He used to melt a whole Hershey's bar into it, until I got 
on him about the cocoa butter's saturated fat!

(I hope Will inherits either my distaste for excessive sweets or Matt's 
metabolism.)

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What is a spanking
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:19:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov12.231949.4425
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:


Plese don't take this a flame, 

>seconds of pain (maybe kids 5 and up can take more like 30 seconds without
>being too traumatized), but doesn't bruise, it's a licking.  Anything that
>causes bruises or worse is a beating.  How is that for appropriate
>network terminology?

Be careful, just because there is no 'bruise' it does not mean that the
child is not 'too traumatize', the boy I have been helping went through
'spanking' between 8 and 10 where the step-father has admitted to me that
he had to stop because his hand, wrist and arm hurt to much.(the step
father not the kid), the goal of the man was to get the boy to 'cry' or
admit to what he had done wrong, The boy showed no sign of being
'tramatized' or any sign of pain, no bruises. Again this is not what
Doug is promoting, but take care on defining what can cause trama,
or pain. Even younger children 'can take it' if they want to 'prove
a point'.

-pete
petel@sequent.com
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long)
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:14:54 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>Now, this means that you have to spell out the consequences before you act.
>Often our lives are:
>
>	Mitchell misbehaves in some new fashion
>	We say "If you do that again, foo"
>	And if he does it again, foo happens.

The book "Family Rules" by Kenneth Kayle, Ph.D. presents this
philosphy.  I strongly recommend this book--the approach seemed very
reasonable to me.

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk)
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:05:32 GMT

In article <26039@optima.cs.arizona.edu>
shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>
>I'm not saying spanking is always the answer, nor am I saying I
>always spank.  I'm saying it is ONE answer that SOMETIMES is the
>only effective action.  I'm saying that those who try to tell me
>that spanking is NEVER useful haven't seen a situation in which
>it was necessary.  I view "NEVER" statements with skepticism.
>
 
  David, view these NEVER statements with skepticism, please:
 
  1) Never throw your kid in the water with the idea that you will
     'teach' him how to swim.
 
  2) Never shove your 4 yr-old's head in the sink and stuff his mouth
     full of Ivory soap because he said 'Damn', 'Hell', or 'Vote for
     Perot!'
 
  3) Never give your kid a loaded BB gun and send him out on the play-
     ground and say to your neighbor, 'I'm not worried.  We raised him
     to know how to handle guns...'
 
   Sorry, I just couldn't resist.  Of course, there ARE situations where
   NEVER applies.  Parents don't always know what is best - the above
   examples are not so ridiculous - some parents do them.
 
                        K. Wilk
                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
 
            <--********************************-->
 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
            <--********************************-->
From: kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:28:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.kids


I was very interested in Judy's posting.  I have one question:

  If you have had more traditional ideas about food (i.e. that some are
  "bad") with the parents exercising control and your child in now 5 or 6,
  has anyone had experience STARTING a "eat anything" model at that age?
  Have their eating habits already become so fixed and dependant on the
  parents' control that the parents must continue to exercise some control?
  Or will they adapt and after a while and correct to eating a balanced
  and varied diet?

Thanks for any comments.

Karla Perdue                 The opinions expressed are strictly my
Mountain View, CA            own and not those of Hewlett-Packard.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
Newsgroups: misc.kids

I always knew that I was an "oops".  My mother was very straight-forward
in saying that she originally wanted 4 kids, and that the last 2 (me and
my brother) were unplanned.  She would hastily add, "Of course, when
you came along, we were really happy to have you in the family."  Even
with this qualifier, knowing I was unplanned was very unsettling to me.
We never had enough money in our family, my parents were under big
financial stress.  So I always felt bad when I thought about it, as if
somehow my coming into the world unplanned caused my family great
stress.  When my mother died, I and my siblings got together and in
talking to them, I found out that they all thought I had been our
mother's favorite.  I was completely shocked because I had always 
assumed that I was the least favored, perhaps going back to this
"unplanned and probably unwanted" theme.  So I believe that having the
knowledge of being unplanned was a bad thing.  I would urge parents
to keep this information to themselves.

With respect to Em, I would advise you to do whatever you can to lift
her self-esteem.  The kind of teasing that you describe should not be 
tolerated by mom and dad.  So the first thing to do is to try to convince 
mom and dad to be more sensitive to the situation if they are not already 
doing so.  Then perhaps the others will fall in line as well.

Jane Marcus
jane@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:31:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.225759.27264@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
> Marian,
> I am sorry. After I read, and posted that, I noticed my phrasology wasn't
> exactly the best. I didn't mean what I wrote. ...

	Proof once again that, ironically, misc.kids is one of the
most mature newsgroups on the Net. :-)

-- 
Mark Meyer                                               | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc.                                  +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
                "I just had a deja vu experience."  "Hey, just like last time!"
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:30:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: nope

In article <24125@alice.att.com> llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf) writes:
>In article <1djgfrINNlo5@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
>>	Never throw your child off a roof.
>
>Every one of these "nevers" can be qualified.  There are some nevers that you
>can probably say really are nevers (for example, "never beat your child about
>the head hard or long enough to put them into a coma", and undoubtedly,
>someone, somewhere, may be able to come up with a qualifier to this statement).

I'm going to stick my oar in here again.  A program on NPR this
evening has reminded me that "the holidays" are coming up.  In
the course of celebrating one of these holidays, a story is
recounted of a mother who tossed her eight kids, and then
herself, off a wall (fatally) rather than have them (and herself)
forcibly converted from their religious views.

If I recall the story correctly, these people are regarded as
heroes.




-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (David Schwantner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: a new fun thread??
Date: 6 Nov 1992 17:11:02 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <BxAvro.EnF@unix.amherst.edu> njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal) writes:
>karen.l.carr (klj@cbnews.cb.att.com) wrote:
>: In article <1d99f1INNdl8@mizar.usc.edu>, biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb) writes:
>: > Has anyone accused you of kidnapping your daughters? 
>: I've been waiting for someone to say something to either my husband or
>: myself.  My husband is white and I am black.  Alison right now is somewhere
>: between the two of us -- either a very light-colored black or a more
>: Italian looking white (I used Italian since her great-grandmother is
>: Italian).  So far, nothing.  Of course, this could change when my daughter
>: gets older!
>My husband is black and I am not.  Our kids are dark but nowhere nearly
>as dark as my husband.  We were once walking down the street with our
>now six-year-old (before we had our second, six-months old tommorow!),
>and a woman stopped us on the street.  Nesim (son) was on Tsenay's (father)
>shoulders and I was walking by their side.  The woman complimented him/me
>on how beautiful he was.  Then she looked straight at my son and said:
>"where is your father?"  I knew that Tsenay wanted to hit her!  My son
>just looked at her as if she were from another planet...

I am white, my wife is black. Our kids came out very light, and my wife
got the strangest looks at the hospital after the birth, like "whose kid 
did you steal?". Our oldest looks like a darker version of me, with curlier
hair, but nothing like my wife. She gets strange looks now when whe is with
only him. Our younger looks more like her and nothing like me, so I get
the strange looks with him. But, they almost look like twins (12 months apart)
so if we are all together, we only get the strange looks for being an 
inter-racial couple. We attend a church (about 150 people) that has ~5
inter-racial couples in it, with about 10 kids from them. So they have 
good number of other kids in their circle of friends so that they will
probably have to be told by some(ignorant)one that there parents are
different in any way from everyone else.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Schwantner - Hewlett-Packard - San Diego Site
Internet : davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com / davids%hpsdde@sdd.hp.com
Slow path: 16399 W. Bernardo Dr., San Diego, CA 92127, USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed here are the sole resposibility of the  
author, and therefore are neither shared, owned, nor payed for by H-P. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"For there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for
you are all one in Christ Jesus" Gal 3:28
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sunita@research.nj.nec.com (Sunita Hingorani)
Subject: Carseat Recommendation
Originator: sunita@vision
Organization: NEC Research Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:20:15 GMT

Hi,
   Sometime ago there was a thread on carseats.  If anybody has saved
the postings could they please email them to me at...
                  sunita@research.nj.nec.com

   In case these topic were not covered earlier, I would like to know 

1:  Comparison between five-point harness, bar & T sheild. How is a
    five-point harness better than bar or T shield?  If 5-point harness
    is not available in a particular brand, which is better bar or
    shield?
2:  Is a five-point harness safer only for newborns or even for 6 mo+?
3:  Recommendation on buying car seats. (My son is 6 mo. old and 18
    lbs)
4:  How is the Evenflo Ultra-Spectra (its the one with the bar shield)?

Thanks...........
sunita
From: liz@marvin.contex.com (Elizabeth Cyr Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:06:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Xyvision Design Systems

In article <25598@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>
>I for one intend to compliment 20/20 on their courage to show that
>some parents spank their kids.  In fact, I also want to compliment
>them for showing parents doing ANYTHING to control their kids.  Too
>many TV "families" consist of kids who do whatever they want and
>parents who make no effort to control their kids behavior.


Oooh--you're really something aren't you? It doesn't seem that anyone
here agrees with you, yet you continue to poke your head up with
your medieval ideas of child-raising. Either you're being purposely
obtuse or you are just plain ass stupid. Given that your posts don't
put you in the first category, the conclusion is therefore obvious.

Knock yourself out. Write that letter to 20/20. You could probably
follow it up with a fan letter to Lindon Larouche while you're at it.
From: irene@cns.nyu.edu (Irene Martin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: testing mailing to newsgroup
Date: 9 Nov 1992 11:57:28 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

just a test - more about my twins-in-progress if this works!
			-irene
From: elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: a new fun thread??
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:05:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville IL

> > 
> >In article <1992Nov2.170040.7833@news.eng.convex.com> newton@convex.com
> (Vicki 
> >Newton) writes:
> > > so c'mon, does anyone have any good stories about the insensitive things
> > > that people have said to you?
> 

Well I've had the misfortune to be asked (on several occasions),
"When is the baby due?" -- and the baby was already born.
-- 
Diane Pedersen
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
att!ihlpe!elonich
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jmartin@ntmtv.UUCP (Jeff Martin)
Subject: Re: tape recorder for a 2.5 year old
Originator: jmartin@rheita
Organization: Northern Telecom Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:18:51 GMT

From article <1dospbINNaib@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, by vicki@mathcs.emory.edu (Vicki Powers):
> My daughter loves music and loves pushing buttons on gadgets, so we are
> thinking about getting her one of those tape players/recorders made just
> for kids as a Christmas present.  Sony makes one, so does Fischer Price, and 
> I've also seen brands I've never heard of.  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone 
> has advice on which types are good, etc.  Ann will be 2.5 at Christmas, 
> and all of the ones I've seen say for 3 and older, but I think she can handle 
> it - she already knows how to use the VCR!
> 

  We've had good luck with Fischer Price model. The buttons are big enough
  to allow for easy use by a toddler.

> This brings up another question - does anybody have good tapes that they
> would especially recommend.  The only restriction is that my husband has
> declared our house a Raffi-free zone!!!
> 
> Thanks a bunch!

  Disney has 2 (maybe a third by now) compilation tapes from various 
  movies. These in addition to the (Disney) movie soundtrack make the
  start of a Raffi-free collection.

> 
>    Vicki

Jeff Martin
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Subject: Re: Our parents and spanking  Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:09:16 GMT

In article <4570287@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com> janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus) writes:
>>So, if you were raised in a home where your parents spank, and they didn't
>>do so in an abusive manner, AND you oppose spanking, I'd sure like to hear
>>briefly why you do
>
I deleted somene's post becausse I wanted to respond to the above question.

Anyway, my parents psanked without becoming physically abusive.  I do
not intend to spank and do not believe in spanking for one very
fundamental reason:  I think that hitting anyone, unless one's
*own* life is in danger, is absolutely wrong. 

I've been considering this whole spanking thing, and especially
trying to consider how my parents fashioned their methods of
punishment based on their childhood experiences.  Although I have
never specifically asked them about it, I have interacted with
m maternal grandmother often enough to get a more clear picture.
On one occasion when we were visiting her house, a bunch of kids
came over, and things got a little out of hand (some boys wanted
to come in the building, and several little kids had their hands
against the glass door to hold them back).  Well, my sister,
about 5 at the time, put her hand through the glass and ended
up with everal stitches.  My nana's response?  "That child
needs a good spanking!"  My parents felt that stitches were
lesson enough for the young Michelle.

Clearly, their methods are not their parents' methods.  My
methods will not be my parents' methods.

Last night, Will Smith, aka The Fresh Prince, was sitting in
on Arsenio, talking about his new baby, which hasn't quite made
it here yet.  He is about my age, (incredibly young!) and I
got the impression that his wife is due pretty soon.  Anyway,
he was talking about how great its going to be to be a father.
He was especially excited about having a little person around
the house who will trust you and beleiev everything you say.
I turned to my husband and said, "This guy is going to be in
for a BIG surprise!"

This discussion is just getting out of hand.  I'm begining
to equate it with theological arguments.  No matter what
incredible evidence anyone may be able to supply to you,
either for or against religion, it boils down to one
question: either you believe in a Higher Being or not.
I am as guilty as others for telling the spankers that they\
are wrong.  they are your kids, do what you think  is right.
When I have my kids, I'll raise them the way I see fit,
which for me, is a no hitting environment, and I have based this
on television shows I have seen, books I have read, and
from personal experience as an individual who grew up in
a spanking household.
 
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Thumb Sucking and Handedness
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:01:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

My daughter (now right-handed) used to suck her right thumb.  One day,
she noticed the callous on her thumb and get very upset.  ``Boo boo!
Boo boo!''  I explained to her what caused it.  She thought about for a
bit -- and then started sucking her left thumb.  Since no callous
appeared immediately, she continued to suck that thumb, and never went
back to her right thummb.

A year or so later, she noticed the callous that had grown on her left
thumb.  We had a similar conversation, modulo her improved verbal
skills.  She thought about it -- and stopped sucking her thumb that
day, and never started agin.

Yes, she's still a very determined sort of small person...
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: klbrubak@athena.mit.edu (Kaye L Brubaker)
Subject: Re: Taking Baby to Meeting? PRE-SUMMARY
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:45:53 GMT

I am delighted -- overwhelmed! -- with all the supportive and helpful advice
on traveling to a scientific meeting with my baby.  This group is GREAT!
I want to reply to everyone personally, but don't have time right now.
Just want to let you know that I have decided to give the paper myself, but
I'm still waffling on whether to take Simon.    ... To be continued ...

Kaye (mom to Simon, 3 mo today!!)

From: bkn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Becky Naqvi)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:50:09 GMT
Subject: Re: "Winkin', Blinkin', and Nod"????
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA