HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: For all Qadiani friens
Keywords: Ahmadiyya Islam
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:46:41 GMT
Reply-To: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University



Mr. Tariq Muhammad Khan:



In article <1992Apr10.161435.10180@topaz.ucq.edu.au>,
khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
> 
> 
> 
> Again sorry for not sending salam. That is because we can not send salam 
> 
> to those people who do not believe on Allah (the only difference is,
Qadianis indirectly, Hindos
> 
> directly).  
> 


Ahmadi Muslims don't beleive in Allah? Don't you have any shame, while
writing PLAIN WHITE LIES on the net? 



> I think it is not falt of our Qadiani friends,
>
> because they were born in a
> 
> family which was not muslim like Hindos and other non muslim religions.


I think the same for you, my friend. You were not born in Ahmadi Muslim
family. 



> But
> 
> allah says that no one will have excuse of not knowing the fact, or no
one told
> 
> them the fact.  like other non muslim these people will also be
questioned and
> 
> they will not have any excuse.
> 


Exactly right! you will not have any excuse for not accepting Ahmadiyya
Islam, (Islam in its prestine purity) You will have no excuse for not
knowing the fact. You will be questioned.



>
> My best suggestion for these people is, not to follow their forfathers
and come
> 
> out of the false and useless thought.
>


My suggestion for you is the same! Don't follow your forfathers and come
out of the false and useless thought. Do some more research on Ahmadiyya
Islam and Pray to Allah for showing you the truth. 

>
>  (May Allah give you people Hidayat)
>


And May Allah give you people Hidayat.

 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tariq Mohammad Khan 
>
>



Sincerely ,


	
**      *        *        * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  *  
* *     *       * *       *      *   *          *          *
*  *    *      *   *      *      *   *          *          *
*   *   *     *     *     * * * *    * * * *    * * * *    *
*    *  *    * * * * *    *      *   *          *          *
*     * *   *         *   *      *   *          *          *
*      **  *           *  * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  * * * * * *
                                                               __________
        "Is Not Allah Sufficient for His man?" :Quran         |  o    o  |
        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE)   |    /\    |
        April 11, 1992.                                       |  \____/  |
                                                             
|___smile__|
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mr. Maudoodi and minority affairs
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:19:10 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


>From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
>Subject: Mr. Maudoodi and Minority relations
>Date: 9 Apr 92 18:36:25 GMT
>
>
> In his testimony before Munir Commission 1953,
>
>Mr. Maudoodi states that he has no objection if
>
>Government of India starts treating MUSLIM minority as
>
>ASHOOTS & MALEESHS.
>
>The report is published by Govt. of Pakistan.

Please give the whole context of the statement. Treatment
as `ASHOOTS' may mean that reservations are made for them
in govt. and public sector employment, and that they receive
affirmative action in admission to university.  Schools
started by communities classified as `backward' in India
are eligible for aid from the govt. -- etc., etc.. All
this is written in the Constitution.
Maulana Maudoodi was also quite aware of the provisions of
the Indian Constitution (adopted Jan. 26. 1950); because
in his criticisms of draft Pakistani Constitution he has
said of some clauses that they do not even come up to the
standard set in Article X of the Indian Constitution.

Therefore, while I'm no defender and no admirer of Maulana
Maudoodi, I think its only fair to point this out.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: I am taking timeout!
Date: 5 Apr 92 22:41:01 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <d=g+2W#@engin.umich.edu> jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak) writes:

>Do you know Arabic or are you an Arab Mr Noor?

Are you implying that mine not being an Arab invalidates an
argument I give. Question was not my ethnic background, question was the
refutation/answer of my article I put to you and also to an *Arab*, no one 
of you could answer---not even tried!!!

>And has not Mr Mubarak replied to your article in no uncertain terms?

**NO** absolutely not. Come on Mr. Mubarak, you know you haven't. You did
try to answer my articles where I gave *lots* of references and you remember
what kind of answers you put on net.
   - never heard of him,
   - can't find this reference/book,
   - so what....etc
And now you are talking about answering in certain terms! I admit that it
was a mistake to discuss just the word Khatam. It is a compound phrase and
should have been discussed as such. Well I am also learning as we are moving
along. 

Matter of fact is, and you know it is a fact, that my last article on
the net which deals with Khatam-e-Nabuuat discussion in light of a couple
of Arabic rules and a few Quranic Ayya. No one, I repeat No one of you, even
tried to answer that. And whats more. in their letters every one ignores that
article as if it never appeared and always refer to my previous articles.

What is there left to say.

Nasir Ahmed Noor
umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: psa@cc.uow.edu.au (u9067914 pakistan students assoc)
Subject: Some info on banned book in Sind
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 04:17:00 GMT

BBC radio reported on monday------------------------


Govt of sind banned a book named "Waiting for Allah" written by
Christina Lamb. According to official version given this book
contain some objectionable notes about Prophet Mohammad (SAW) and
his wife, this book also have something against Father of the Nation 
Mohammad Ali Jinnah. For the interst of our readers Christina Lamb was
before posted in Pakistan as a journalist working for Financial Times
during her stay in Pakistan she completed this book. This book has mixed 
feelings amongs critics some of them in favour of "Freedom of Expression"
movement agreed that this book should'nt be banned.Banning a book in Pakist
an is suppose to be a provincial matter therefore this book is still available
in rest of the provinces.

Monitered and reported by 

Ali Abbas
University of Wollongong 
Australia.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: re Islamic Justice and ....
From: vkuttikattu@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: 3 Apr 92 22:09:09 CST
Reply-To: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Missouri-Kansas City

In article <1992Mar30.003946.21540@acsu.buffalo.edu>, memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed S. Memon) writes:
> From: vkuttikattu@vax1.umkc.edu
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
> Subject: Re: Re Jihad. Islamic justice
 
> My point of objection is that when you jump at the oppurtunity to document
> human rights violation in Iran, and Saudi Arabia, your efforts seem to 
> me futile because you would dont gain any sympathy by equating Islamic
> justice by barbarism. I am not saying that I do not agree with you that
> the severity of some punishment defies any sense of humanity, but you would
> not have an understanding of the nature of the societies that you seem to 
> be making a judgement about, if from square one, you call out 'barbarism'
> 'abhorrent to modern man' etc. Your tone lacks any anthropolical sense.
> 
> 
> Naveed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
dear naveed,
          My point is as you said the "the severity of some punishment defies
any sense of humanity".Those words definitly qualify my use of the word
"barbarism". If you see someone being stoned for adultery,won't you feel
that it is a primitive and barbaric way to put a person to death especially
if there are more humane means of doing so.Secondly, don't you think that
stoning some one just for adultery is both wrong and evil.If that is Islamic
"justice" then I would definitly call it primitive and abhorrent to mordern
man.The Mayans used to sacrifice humans to their gods.The humans they
sacrificed were criminals and prisoners of war.It was sanctioned by their
religion,does that mean that you also have to do all what that the koran
says.I'm a layman when concerned with Islamic law and I "lack understanding
of the nature of the societies that you(I) seem to be making a judgement
about".So naturally I just see whats on the surface and it seems to me
so ruthless that you can't blame me for forming such opinions.I know 
there are a lot of people who think like me and plus there is the news
media ,and people who have seen Islamic "justice" in action who would 
disagree with you.A thousand lies won't change the truth.Don't delude your
selves, Islamic Justice is not  JUSTICE!
                                     Kunnath Paulose
P.S.:Islamic Justice is not the only injustice that should be banished from
this world there are other kinds to, e.g. aparthied, but opinions must change
first.                                                   ^^^^^^^^
From: jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re:  A little fact I want you to know (Son of Woman)
Date: 3 Apr 92 13:09:48 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Apr3.080532.25238@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>
>Highly, Highly ?????? (dont' have words)
>Any way, You have done the same as Mr. Mubarak did and as thousands and

>....You guys storm with a showers of arguments/questions/allegations and 
>stuff. Once answered satisfactorily and left total *speechless*, you guys
>just disappear and resurface after couple of weeks and announce and self 

Did I stop replying or did you?

>Neither you, Nor Mr. Jamal Mubarak and nor someone else even had the
>courage to try to refute my latest article on Khatam. I went all the

Did I not post a reply to it on the net and even e-mail it to you?

>I CHALLENGE YOU TO ANSWER THAT ARTICLE OF MINE......I AM REPOSTING A COPY
>NOW...WILL KEEP ON POSTING UNTILL YOU REPLY TO THAT.......

And I am reposting my reply.

>P.S. I directed Mr. Mubarak twice to this article. once thru net post and
>     once thru personal email. He did not reply but keep on claiming victory.

Mr Noor, have you gone totally off your rocker?  Why are you lying?  Did I
not reply to you on the net and even e-mail you the article after you said
that you had not read my reply to it?  Are you okay?  Has this debate disturbed
your mental equilibrium?

Jamal [concerned] Mubarak
From: sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Qadiani/non-Qadiani war. Ceasefire ? Please.
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:49:08 GMT
Organization: Software Development, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 8-Apr-92 The
Qadiani/non-Qadiani war.. Farooq Butt@mrbt.sw.stra (1917)



> Folks: 

> I restrained myself as much as I could ;-) and I know this is 
> obvious but it seems like the net.warriors are just not 
> getting the point...
< reasonable points about the futility of further arguments from either
side deleted>
> Of course, I may be dead wrong and all your net.stalkers out there
> could be enjoying the heck out of all this khoon-kharaba, in which
> case please accept my apologies.
NOT!!!! :-) 
> fmb



While all of what you said is perfectly true, it is not exactly true
that the kind of argument ad infintum and the attempt to get the last
word in we are seeing here may not have positive side-effects.
What comes to my mind is the experience of that old Mughal emperor whose
name still sends some mullahs into apoplectic fits - yes, I am referring
to the man Queen Elizabeth of England knew as Zelabdim Echbar. :-) He
was all too good a Muslim in the early years of his reign and, in fact,
distressed by the presence of multiple sects in Islam, he tried to bring
about discussions between mullahs supposedly erudite in Islam to
reconcile these differences. Most Pakistanis, I am sure, can foretell
the result of putting 10 mullahs into a room to discuss Islam. To
simplify history, after a couple of years of listening to the
distinguished ulema curse each other and brand each other as kafirs
etc., good old Echebar decided that something was wrong and started
looking at other religions too - yes "infidilating" :-) religions as
well - in search for the Ultimate Truth, which to his great regret, he
never seemed to find.
So, Qadianis/Ahmadiyas, take heart, at various times in history, Shias
were considered infidels too by the Sunnis, but when their number and
strength was too much to overcome, they too became Muslims in the eyes
of these people. Maybe, just maybe, if you persist, you too will come to
be regarded as true Muslims (TM) (*) and can join the Sunnis, Shias etc.
in persecuting other kafirs. Meanwhile Ahamadiyas and non-Ahmadiyas,
keep debating loudly, call each other kafirs or munafiqs in public or
worse names in Arabic, Urdu or any language of your choice, just as long
as it is obvious to others that you are cursing each other, slam each
other instead of salaaming each other - then maybe more reasonable and
non-fanatic people (religious and otherwise) will realize the folly of
publicly organized religion and will see faith as a private matter and
accept religion as a personal matter to be practiced by different people
as they personally deem fit.


(*) Muslim is a trademark of people who follow Islam, that Dean of
religions :-).
___
Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai
Office: UCC 181	Phone: x6406 [(412)268-6406]

Remember: Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qureshi@redwood (Fawad Qureshi)
Subject: Re: PINKY FLOYD - 
Keywords: restless Talha 
Organization: Shell Oil
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 15:03:53 GMT


 
go on Talha....I know your dying to jump in on this !!
 
      "put 'em all up against THE WALL"
 
-- 
Fawad Qureshi
Shell Oil Company
(713)795-3772 
Internet:  qureshi@shell.com	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Subject: Reply to an Ahmadi Fellow 
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 22:20:15 GMT

>From: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)

Mr. Rana! I am shocked by your letter.


>
>Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S.) WAS A Prophet, Nabi, Paighamber,
>Promised Messiah, Mahdi, and a reformer for the present age as predicted
>by the Holy Quran, Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), and other Holy Scriptures. 

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a slave of Holy Prophet(PBUH), not a prophet 
himself.  
Quran does not predict anything like that.
This a BLAME on the character of Promised Messiah.

> He was a sub-ordinate Prophet. 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
what kind of Prophethood is that?
First time I am hearing this thing.
Can you cite a single reference from Hazrat sahib's books which says
that he was a subordinate prophet. 

> The purpose of Hazrat Ghulam Ahmad was to revive
>Islam, to interpetate Islam according to he Mordern Age, remove
>mis-conceptions that have been raised in Islam. The purpose is not bring
>about a new religion. The religion still remains ISLAM. Islam has
>deturiated over 1400 years, and many wrong ideas, interpetations,
>confusions have been developed. These could only be removed through
>divine help from Allah. That was the purpose of the Hazrat Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad (A.S.). 
>

You don't need a prophet to do that. You need a reformer(MUJADID).

The important thing to remember is this:

If you negate a prophet you are non-muslim.
If Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet then all those people who do not
believe on him( yet they consider him a MUSLIM) become Kafirs,
Hazrat sahib, however says that you don't become KAFIR if you don't 
believe on him(as long as you don't call him KAFIR)and I can quote references 
from his books.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: TITLE/SUBJECT/TITLE/SUBJECT
Date: 14 Apr 1992 13:16:40 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu


In article <1992Apr14.135554.1106@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> ztm36511@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>In article <kujikqINNmhu@skat.usc.edu>, ashai@skat.usc.edu (Ehtisham Ashai) writes:
:: 
:: 
:: 	Whats going on folks. First of all I am sick of the religious
:: exchange of fire balls and I really mean big balls this time. Knock of
:: you morons, nay! you guys probably have got nothing better to do in
:: life. You stinking, racist, moronic, castic and caustic, low life
:: pakis wake up, its party time.
:
:[crap deleted]

Three men were praying together. One of them broke his "niyyat" and
said something. The second one, also broke his "niyyat" in trying
to explain to the other one that it is not correct to talk while
in prayers. A heated discussion ensued. Finally, when it was over, the
third one spoke, "Thank God, I didn't join them!"
From: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: WHY ARGUE ON KHATAM AL NABAYYIN ?
Keywords: Ahmadiyya Islam
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:53:48 GMT
Reply-To: nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University





Dear Netters:


All those Ahmadi/non-Ahmadi Muslims who are debating on Khatum al
Nabiyyin are requested to stop because we all are in agreement to that.

All of us, who are Muslims agree to the fact that a Prophet/Massenger
has appeared or would appear in the later days! So there is no point
argue on Khatam? Everybody, agrees that the Messiah and Mahdi would
appear. The Ahmadi Muslims are saying, HE HAS APPEARED, that is the
difference. The argument should not be whether he can or cannot appear?

Here, I think I close the debate on Khatum-e-Nabuwat, by giving the
Ahmadi Muslims a victory, because no body can deny the fact that the
Messiah and Mahdi shall appear. You can not say that there is absolutely
no prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) and still say that the Messiah and
Mahdi shall appear??






Sincerely,

	
**      *        *        * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  *  
* *     *       * *       *      *   *          *          *
*  *    *      *   *      *      *   *          *          *
*   *   *     *     *     * * * *    * * * *    * * * *    *
*    *  *    * * * * *    *      *   *          *          *
*     * *   *         *   *      *   *          *          *
*      **  *           *  * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  * * * * * *
                                                       __________
        "LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE"               |  o    o  |
        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (Never Argue with me!)     |    /\    |
        April 08, 1992.                               |  \____/  |
                                                      |___smile__|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan

/ hpcc01:soc.culture.pakistan / fmbutt@mrbt.sw.stratus.com (Farooq Butt) /  7:53 am  Apr  9, 1992 /

> door on Mr.  Mustansar Hussain TharuR and Co.  BTW: didya know that
> you can no longer use an MCI calling card to call Pakistan from Long
		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Island, NY because of Mr. TharuR's pals who have been racking up
> "free" calls for the past few years.

> fmb

Not just MCI Calling Card.  ATT has done the same thing for Pakistan and
several other countries.  Main concentration areas for these fraud calls
are:  New York, Miami and L.A.  

Regards
Tanwir SyedMohammad

> -- 
> Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING in the above article has the slightest 
> relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
> notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
> UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
> ----------

Standard Disclaimer --  Well, what the heck -- SAME AS YOURS  :-{ )
From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: billa-unwaan..........title-less
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:58:33 GMT
Reply-To: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

Adil,  its quite disputed!   Are you asking for flames from some ????
Isn't it a matter of belief.

----------------------------------------------------
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
             		                    -- Oscar Wilde

Civil Engg. Dept.                       (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
Colorado State University   (303) 224 0397             (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:52:42 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

Salam Alaikum Yasmin,

	How come you are the only muslim woman on this net who is speaking
out on this issue? I would like to see more raise their voice. I enjoy your
articles. They are very sensible and to the point. I wish more MEN would think
the way you do.

sincerely

zafar minhas
From: aq0@engr08.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi)
Subject: Re: billa-unwaan..........title-less
Organization: University of Arkansas
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 20:28:27 GMT

zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir) writes:

>In article <Apr.13.21.25.04.1992.22170@gandalf.rutgers.edu> amarmahb@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Amar Mahboob Ali) writes:
>>
>>	
>>>	ADIL [....bool kay laab azad haiN tairay
>>>		  bool zubaaN aab tak tairee hai.......] NAJAM
>>
>>
>>Can you, or anyone else post the complete nazm. It would be nice to
>>read it again after a looooong time.
>>
>>Amar Mahboob
>
>
>Here it goes
>
>
>			BOL  (By Faiz)
>
>	Bol ke lab aazaad haiN teray
>	bol zabaaN ab tak teri hai
>	tera sutwaaN jism hai tera
>	bol ke jaaN ab tak teri hai
>	dekh ke aahan gar ki dukaaN maiN
>	tund haiN sholay, surkh hai aahan
>	khulnay lagay qufloN ke dahaanay
>	phaila har ek zanjir ka daaman
>	bol, yeh thoRa waqt bohat hai
>	jism-o-zabaaN ki maut se pehlay
>	bol, ke sach zinda hai ab tak
>	bol, jo kuchh kahna hai kah lay
>
>
>		TRANSLATION BY VICTOR KIERNAN
>
>			SPEAK
>
>	Speak, for your lips are free;
>	Speak, your tongue is still yours,
>	Your upright body is yours --
>	Speak, your life is still yours.
>	See how in the blacksmith's shop
>	The flames are hot, the iron is red
>	Mouths of locks have begun to open,
>	Each chain's skirt has spread wide.
>	Speak, this little time is plenty 
>	Before the death of body and tongue:
>	Speak, for truth is still alive --
>	Speak, say whatever is to be said.
>
>Zia Zafir
>

TINA SANI, in her album "koi baat kero" has sung the above ghazal,
its sounds awesome in her voice

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan