HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: PC/TCP 2.1 copy protection
Summary: More copy protection
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:51:24 GMT

In article <18uci0INN5h6@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> geoff@tyger.Eng.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) writes:
>
>Over the years, our customers have come up with extremely ingenious
>(and often amazing) ways to rework the licensing model into something
>that is easier to live with. One site blew the serial number into a
>boot PROM on each PC and ran a little program to patch the number into
>the local copy of PCNFS.SYS. Another customer with many thousands of
>PCs worldwide built their own RPC-based installation mechanism:  they
>reserve one PC-NFS serial for use in their "setup diskettes", of which
>they have many copies. Booting off this diskette runs a program which
>NFS mounts the master distribution area, copies down an up-to-date
>distribution kit, requests a new serial number and IP address, patches
>everything up, and restarts with the new, legal serial. We are
>completely happy for people to do stuff like this: as long as they
>conform to the spirit of the license (one actively used copy, one
>serial number), they are free to use any mechanism they choose
>to implement it.

Ok; I'll bite.  If I were to do this at a site, I'd have to amortize the
time and trouble that this kind of hackery takes over my anticipated
installed base, and then add that to each of your licenses to get my true
cost.

When I do that, you are no longer in the game; the cost of doing boot PROMs
and the like is non-trivial.  It's also a serious problem if you have some
systems which need to run NFS, some which run Novell, some which run both
(and boot from the net -- oops! no empty prom socket!) and what have you.

Copy protection on DOS packages went the way of the dodo for the most part
because it got in the way of legitimate use.  I intentionally boycott any
and all copy-protected software if there are reasonable alternatives.  This
isn't because I like to steal -- it is because the inconvenience and expense
involved in working around vendor's attempts (all useless in the end too;
hackers can disassemble and patch out copy protection faster than you can
devise new ways to attempt it) at preventing piracy costs MONEY -- money that 
could be spent on a better product in the first place instead of on making 
my life more complicated.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: sam3103@tamsun.tamu.edu (Stan McClellan)
Subject: Re: Question:  using QEMM and packet drivers simultaneously
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:00:13 GMT

In article <182m9vINNtj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> trier@slc6.ins.cwru.edu (Stephen C. Trier) writes:

>It is, but it's not listed in the FAQ file because there isn't one.  :-)

Seems to me like this group could benefit from a FAQ list.
Keeps dumb questions out of the way ... heh heh ... ahem.

>Use the exclude option to make QEMM aware of the network card's address

Many thanks (to all who responded).  
The exclude option does the trick.

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Problems with NOS LPD
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:33:18 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

I'm having some problems getting NOS LPD to work.  Specifically, the
system hangs when I try to do "start lpd".  If I take the "start lpd"
command out of AUTOEXEC.NET, then NOS works fine -- I can ping other
systems, telnet to them, etc., and can even ping the NOS box if I've
started the echo server.  But as soon as I type "start lpd", NOS
hangs.  NumLck still toggles the LED, but I can't hit Ctrl-Break or
F10 to get a prompt, and I have to reboot.

My printcap file is pretty simple:

#
# example printcap for NOS LPD
#

# Laser II printer on LPT1.
#
lj|lp1|p1:\
        :af=/etc/lp-acct:\
	:lf=/etc/lpd-log:\
	:lp=LPT1:\
	:pl#66:\
	:pw#80:\
	:sd=/spool/lpd/lp1:\
	:sh:\

I'm using the SLIP8250 packet driver, with the following AUTOEXEC.NET:

attach packet 0x60 sl0 35 1024
ifc sl0 ip 192.84.21.2 netm 0xffffff00 broad 192.84.21.255
route add default sl0
start echo
start discard
start ftp
start smtp

Any ideas?

-- 
Marc Unangst                | Real men don't use Windows.  Real men use X. 
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | Only a real man would use a GUI where the
                            | shift keys after "Alt" are "Super" and "Hyper."
From: ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: pktmux11/qvtnet27 compatability
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:02:33 GMT
Organization: ACAL, EECS, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Thomas F. Owen (towen@relay.nswc.navy.mil) wrote:
: I tried to ftp to uk.ac.rl.ib to get a later version of pktmux to see if 
: the problem has been reported or corrected, but my system cannot resolve the 
: address for either ftp or mail.

Version 1.2 of pktmux (pktmux12.exe) is on ftp.cica.indiana.edu in directory
pub/pc/win3/uploads.
Here's the accompanying pktmux.txt file:

this is a tsr wich allows mutilple TCP/IP programs to be used simultanosly
e.g. under windows, so you can do some QVTNET and some lpr in a dos session and
even some more dos-telnet....
it's a beta relese from version 1.2 but for me it works good.

--
Ayman I. Kayssi                               |    ayman@eecs.umich.edu
EECS Department                               +------------------------
University of Michigan                        |          (313) 764-8033
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: barrus@cod.nosc.mil
Subject: Bacground Launcher for the PC?
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:59:01 GMT


Bacground Launcher for the PC?

I am looking for a utility, commercial or shareware, the will 
launch programs on a set schedule and will run in the 
background.  I have looked at the cron like programs, but they 
seem to require that the utility be in the forground to work.  
You cannot shell to DOS and have it still lauch programs.
They seem to be designed more for unattended machines than ones 
that are in use, which is what I am looking for.  I cannot use 
a Windows product as the foreground program will not run in 
Windows.
	What I am trying to do is to automatically ftp download 
data files in the background on a schedule while the forground 
program continues.  Perhaps there is some sort of background 
ftp product for the PC?  I appreciate any input.  Thanks

/Joseph Barrus
Barrus@cod.nosc.mil



Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: jbg@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Jeff Gehlhaar)
Subject: Windows 3.1 Compatible Kernel
Summary: Windows Sockets?
Keywords: sockets, winsock, tcp/ip
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:02:59 GMT

At Qualcomm, we have been developing a PC version of the popular POP3/SMTP
email client, Eudora, which previously only ran on the Macintosh.  We are
nearing the early testing stages for a Windows 3.1 version, but have run
into something of a snag with our current TCP/IP stack.

The program currently requires a BSD sockets interface in order to run.
However, with the advent of the WinSock API, we might be persuaded to recode
the network sections to comply to this API.

We are looking for input both from vendors and other parties regarding
TCP/IP stacks that are Windows 3.1 compliant, and have a working and
supported BSD and/or WinSock API interface. All comments and suggestions
will be welcome.

Our current environment is Zortech C++, Windows 3.1.

Please feel free to contact me at :
	jbg@qualcomm.com      or   (619) 597-5241

============================================================================
Jeff Gehlhaar		-- PC Eudora, bringing the Post Office to your PC.
Qualcomm Inc., San Diego, CA USA
jbg@qualcomm.com
(619) 597-5241
From: cm@impmh.uucp (Colin Manning)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: PCTCP 2.05 and Windows 3
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:04:52 GMT
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd

Apologies if this is a faq, but:

What is the state of play as far as using PC/TCP 2.05 and windows together ?

For example, does it work ? And are there any restrictions on what
you can/cannot do, or special notes for configuring it with windows.

Many thanks in advance.

-- 
Colin Manning     cm@impmh.uucp      Tel: +44 753 516599
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: b.watson@uws.edu.au
Subject: LTxmit: Illegal parameter or parameters?
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Macarthur
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:27:40 GMT

Hi,
   I am using NCSA Telnet 2.3.03 on PCs with Farallon PhoneNET cards.  In
general it is working fine, but we often get the message:
 
LTxmit: illegal parameter or parameters.
 
This happens whenever I attempt to FTP into the PC, when someone tries
to finger the PC and at other times for no apparent reason.  Does the
appletalk driver have problems handeling data on other than port 23?
When we get the message for no apparent reason, the performance is
degraded.
 
I also have a problem with the FTP of the same version.  On some machines
I cannot FTP before running telnet.  If I attempt to FTP I get errors about
not being able to initialise the network.
 
Thanks,
---
  Brian Watson
  Programmer, Computing Centre
  University of Western Sydney, Macarthur
  Internet: b.watson@uws.EDU.AU
Organization: K.U.Leuven - Academic Computing Center
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 16:40:20 +02
From: VAN UYTVEN HERMAN <SYSTHVU@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Internet - FIDOnet gateway ?

Hello,

Is there software available to do Internet - FIDOnet gatewaying
of mail ?

A group of medical doctors uses Frontdoor (based on the addressing
I assume this is FIDOnet mail),  but they need to make intercontinental
phone calls to reach the Internet ...

As far as I know there exists only UUCP - FIDOnet gateways, but since
we don't have UUCP I am wondering if there exists software to gateway
mail directly between Internet (SMTP, or POP) and FIDOnet.

Thanks,

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Herman Van Uytven              e-mail: SYSTHVU@BLEKUL11.BITNET    |
| Academic Computing Center              SYSTHVU@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be |
| K.U.Leuven                     Tel: (+32) (16) 286611 local 2225  |
| Willem De Croylaan 52-a        Fax: (+32) (16) 207168             |
| B-3001 Heverlee (Leuven)                                          |
| Belgium                        postmaster for cc1.kuleuven.ac.be  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: skl@wimsey.bc.ca (Samuel Lam)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Problems with KA9Q and ARCNET
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:57:15 GMT
Reply-To: skl@wimsey.bc.ca (Samuel Lam)

In article <1992Sep7.002219.4498@burrhus.harvard.edu>,
 ddl@burrhus.harvard.edu (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>It is my impression that most of the world has given up on
>class 8 packet drivers.

It certainly seems that people are starting to standardize on
class 1 packet drivers regardless of the actual physical/logical
media.  (See ibmtoken, etherslip, arcether, ipxpkt, nb, ...)

...Sam
-- 
<skl@wimsey.bc.ca>
From: MBLUETT@ccs.uoguelph.ca (Mike Bluett)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: INT-14 Redirectors??
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:23:07 GMT
Reply-To: mbluett@datacom.ccs.uoguelph.ca
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hi,

I would appreciate any information leading to a free/shareware INT-14
redirector, other than WATTCP's tcpport. I am just looking for
alternatives.
==================================================
Mike Bluett        (mbluett@datacom.ccs.uoguelph.ca)
Systems Analyst
The University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario
Canada



Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Re: Do most PC's use DNS or a local hosts file?
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 04:55:27 GMT

From skule.ecf!torn!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!dank Sat Sep  5 22:47:30 EDT 1992
Article: 10504 of comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: dank@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Daniel R. Kegel)
Subject: Do most PC's use DNS or a local hosts file?
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:15:27 GMT

Daniel Kegel asks:

> I'm writing a freeware tcp/ip application for the PC, and wonder if
>  can rely on people to have DNS support for looking up IP addresses
> from hostnames.  If I can, my life is simpler, I can just distribute
> hostnames; otherwise, I'll have to distribute IP addresses, too.

NCSA Telnet supports both; you have to explicitly give a few IP addresses
unless you are using RARP.

> Does your site support DNS for its pc's?  Are they configured to
> use it, or do they use a static hosts file?

Yes, DNS is everywhere accessible, but things like DNS servers, gateways
and the PC's own IP address are in the config file for NCSA or hosts
file for PC-NFS. I know that the NCSA Telnet DNS client works well.
I think that for a standard University network, you can assume that
DNS service is present.



-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory
From: cl@ukc.ac.uk (C.Lau)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Advice needed : Waterloo TCPPORT over PC-NFS
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:13:12 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

Greetings,

I'm porting the Waterloo tcpport.c to run on top of PC-NFS. Since
I'm new to this area and wonder if any kind soul who has
experience in this area would give me some advice.

Thanks in advance.

Christina Lau
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: pista@aszi.sztaki.hu (Tetenyi Istvan)
Subject: Bridging software with packet drivers
Keywords: Packet driver, bridge,
Organization: Computer and Automation Institute, Hungary
Distribution: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:54:51 GMT

Dear Colleagues,


I wonder if any one of you have heard about a sofware which is a Bridge that 
uses packet drivers. On both sides of the bridge there is ethernet.

I know different bridges are around but none of them is working over packet-
drivers.

Kind regards,
Istvan Tetenyi
From: exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.os2.networking
Subject: pc/tcp for OS/2 2.0: tn3270 keymapping
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:56:38 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

I just received version 1.2 of FTP Software's PC/TCP for OS/2, and I'm 
having trouble remapping keys under tn3270.  Let me rephrase that - even the 
standard key mapping doesn't seem to work.

My terminal type is 'ibmpc', and the MAP3270 environment variable is set to 
c:\pctcp\etc\map3270.  'ibmpc' is a valid terminal type in the map3270 
file.  None of the function keys work, nor any of the special function keys 
like EOF, RESET, HOME, etc.

The only thing I can get to work is the default function key assignments (
ie, ^[1 for PFK1, ^[2 for PFK2, etc.

I tried calling FTP, but their tech support closes at 6:00 PM EDT (Great 
for central thru pacific time zones - FTP: are you listening?) What am I 
doing wrong?  Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I'm pretty sure I'm doing exactly 
as the manual and all the readme files say.

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon L. Gauthier                                 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
EXU/IS/TP Systems Programmer                                  P.O. Box 833875
+1 214 997-0157                                     Richardson, TX 75083-3875

Disclaimer:  "My opinions are my own - my employer would take the 5th on
             everything I say."  Surely it's been said before!...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Packet driver for Lantastic card 
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 02:00:50 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <mih.5.0@eng.ufl.edu> mih@eng.ufl.edu writes:

   
   Does anyone know if there is a packet driver for the ethernet card sold with 
   Lansastic?  Or what it's functional equivalent is ?  (I have all the 
   Clarkson drivers but don't see it there)  Mabey who makes the card for 
   artisoft ?

The AE2 can be put into Novell NE2000 compatability mode.

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  I'm proud to be a humble Quaker!
Crynwr Software            Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.               315-268-1925 Voice
Potsdam, NY 13676          315-268-9201 FAX
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From:  (Luis Ochoa)
Subject: DOS 5.0 missing a previous .exe ?
Followup-To: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Organization: NIDCD: NIH:GOV
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:20:08 GMT

I would like to know what happened to the redir.exe command which was
available in previous versions of DOS.

I am presently setuping up a package which requires the DOS "redir.exe".

How do I go about getting the redir.exe for DOS 5.0 ?

Or can I use another .exe to do the job.

Thanks
ochoa@alw.nih.gov
From: backman@FTP.COM (Larry Backman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: PC/TCP 2.1 copy protection
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:19:56 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


 >> Unless it's changed since my last understanding of it (which I doubt
 >> but is possible), FTP Software's copy protection scheme will not
 >> require you to have a specific diskette per machine, nor will it
 >> generate any extra network traffic.
 >> 
 >> The scheme requires each kernel to be stamped with a serial number at install
 >> time. I believe site licenses will receive a list of serial numbers and keys.
 >> If you have a 20 system site license, you get a master distribution and
 >> 20 serial numbers and keys, not 20 disks. Also, the serial number is
 >> piggy-backed on ARP packets, not in special broadcasts, so it doesn't
 >> cost you any extra traffic.

 John is 100% accurate.  In addition, we will gladly sell unserialized
 product to site licenses.

 Larry Backman
 FTP Software

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: pista@aszi.sztaki.hu (Tetenyi Istvan)
Subject: Bridging with packet-drivers, any solution ?
Keywords: Packet driver, bridge,
Organization: Computer and Automation Institute, Hungary
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:33:04 GMT

Dear Colleagues,


I wonder if any one of you have heard about a sofware which is a Bridge that 
uses packet drivers. On both sides of the bridge there is ethernet.

I know different bridges are around but none of them is working over packet-
drivers.

Kind regards,
  Istvan Tetenyi
From: backman@FTP.COM (Larry Backman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Printing problem using FTP's TCP/ip Ver 2.05
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:34:35 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


 >>          I am having probems printing from WP51 over the network
 >>          using FTP's PC/TCP ver 2.05 pl2.  I have been told that the
 >> problem is with PREDIR and has been solved with PC/TCP ver 2.10 or with
 >> ver 2.05 pl4 plus, is this true?  I would appreciate any comments on
 >> this, thanks.
 >> 
It was fixed in V2.10.  Mail to info@ftp.com for an upgrade.

Larry Backman
FTP Software
From: mzafir@leon.ariadne-t.gr (Zafeiropoulos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: University of Washington's CUTCP w/key remapping ability
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:53:09 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NETWORK ARIADNE , NCSR DEMOCRITOS


In article <10SEP199220371826@oregon.uoregon.edu, Ken Girrard (kgirrard@
oregon.uoregon.edu is referring to an enhanced version of Clarkson's CUTCP
package with Kermit-style key remapping. He points to ftphost.nwnet.net as
an anonymous ftp site from which it can be downloaded.

Does anybody has the address for this machine? I cannot resolve the name 
and neither nic.ddn.mil or archie quote any references to a NorthWest Net
anonymous ftp site. I tried ftping some U of Washington sites that came up
during the search with no luck.

Thanks in advance,
Th.Stathopoulos       mzafir@leon.nrcps.ariadne-t.gr
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I was there, Case. I was there when they invented your kind."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: yellowbd@eskimo.celestial.com (Andy Hubbell)
Subject: Re: Desqview/X experience ?
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:52:50 GMT

Well, some bad news for the moment.  According to Quarterdeck, DVX will
currently only work for text based apps.  Unless it is X11R4 based. 
(That is, an X-client.)  So it looks like we will have to wait for full
graphics implementation.  Sorry, but the photos might have been
misleading...  (However, DVX does use Windows as an X-client app... 
Might bear further investigation.)
  
                    --== Andy ==--
  
Windows -- NOT!  DVX is the way to go!
Email:  yellowbd@eskimo.celestial.com
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch)
Subject: IBM's TCP/IP 1.2.1 for OS/2 Slip problem
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:59:31 GMT


Hi,

I want to use the slip part of IBM's TCP/IP to connect to our slip
terminal server.  Problem is, with the terminal server, you have to enter
a username and password and then the word "slip" in order to connect.  But
the slip IBM's TCP/IP doesn't seem to have any method of terminal
interaction before the connection.

Has anyone else met with this problem ?  Any solutions known of ?

Thanx in advance
ant
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 22:10:24 CDT
From: Rich Chong <U41602@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,bit.listserv.tcp-ip-l
Subject: Ever hear of a TNVT100 or TNVT220?

Anyone ever hear of a TELNET like program for the ibmpc that
will do VT100 emulations? How does it work? Where o where? and how much?
Thanks!
rc
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: PC/TCP 2.1 copy protection 
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 01:37:46 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <1992Sep9.215825.3145@tware.com> bash@tware.com writes:

   By the way, [copy protection] was, I'm told, "requested by our
   foreign VAR's due to  problems with extreme piracy". B.S.

I doubt it.  I know another TCP/IP vendor who receives orders for a
single copy from too many [foreign] distributors for them to avoid
the obvious conclusion.

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  I'm proud to be a humble Quaker!
Crynwr Software            Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.               315-268-1925 Voice
Potsdam, NY 13676          315-268-9201 FAX