HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bestor@cs.wisc.edu (Gareth S. Bestor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Kevlar vests and "safety" devices
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:11:56 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

<flame mode on>
Anyone who doesn't wear a bike helmet is a bad accident waiting to
happen. The fact is that helmets do substantially reduce the risk of
bad head injuries - a not uncommon and potentially very serious injury
in bicycle accidents.
<flame mode off>

Personally I think all cyclist should be encouraged to wear helmets.
Whether this should be done by extensive advertising or making it illegal
not to is a different matter. However, the precedent is already there;
namely that motorcyclists must wear helmets. Its not a big step from
motorcycles to bicycles (vs cars). If you are going to successfully
argue that cyclists should not have to wear helmets then you'd better
say why motorcyclist should not have to also, or explain why the cases
are substantially different. The first may not be that hard to do, at
least its still not law in most (all?) states in the USA. Of course,
not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is *REALLY* stupid!

On both issues I can see good reasons for making it law - its a very
basic safety method that everybody should be following. Same with
wearing a seatbelt(cars), lifevest(boats), crash helmet(motorcycle),
or kevlar vest(bank robberies). Then again, I also think that Darwin's
principle should be allowed to work - get the stupid genes out of the
pool.

[For the record, my only means of daily transport has two wheels and
 runs on an internal digestion engine fueled by lemon poppy seed muffins.]

Mr Perry writes...
> ...............................................As such people should
> not be forced to protect themselves, though if they wish to they may,
> as it violates a fundamental principle that people should be protected
> from injury by others (or from their own activities). NO OTHER section
> of society is forced to protect themselves from injury in this way.

This may seem a bit off the subject of bicycle helmets, but the tone
I'm hearing can't help but remind me of that classic American dilemma:
     >>>>>> Gun Control <<<<<<
Thank god NZ doesn't have a Constitution that lets you go out and kill
people. (Opps, perhaps that should be in flame mode ?:^)

- Gareth

------------------------------------------------------------
                      Gareth S. Bestor
Computer Sciences Dept.        Inst. for Research on Poverty
U. of Wisconsin-Madison        U. of Wisconsin-Madison
1210 West Dayton Street        1180 Observatory Drive
Madison, WI 53706              Madison, WI 53706
Internet: bestor@cs.wisc.edu   DECnet: SSCC::BESTOR
Phone: (608) 262-6601          Phone: (608) 262-7377
------------------------------------------------------------
"A University should be a place of light, of liberty, and
 of learning." - Disraeli (House of Commons, 1873)
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:01:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.115737.12309@waikato.ac.nz>, bill@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>In article <1ed003INNgj8@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (William Francis Bennett) writes:
>> All this talk of cycle helmets reminds me of a pet groan: the general level of
>> driving skills in New Zealand. Frankly, Kiwi drivers are worse than Italians or
>> even the French.

I've driven in England.  Did you know that they make their parking
spaces soooo thin that any decent sized car can't fit? 

>All this conjecturing and waving of statistics about how bad New Zealand
>direvers is rather pointless. Until you show me a comprehensive study that
>compares road conditions, road densities, age of cars, etc. etc. between
>countries I'll just ignore anyone who quotes a single statistic. I've
>driven in Europe and in North America. I've just arrived back from
>one month's driving around between Toronto, Boston and New York. Now
>that was scary. And I spent most of my time out on wide open freeways.
>If you want suicidal, drive in Manhatten or on the Autobahn.

[...]

>I know, I've done it myself. Do you know what width most North
>Americans need to change lanes? Just the bonnet. Do you know what
>Manhatten-ites regard as the most important part of their car - the
>horn.

Of course, this isn't so for the West coast.  You'd have to get
used to entirely different driving conditions.  Los Angeles has
about 14 million people in its greater area.  There are about 
as many autos as well.  Traffic works two ways there: either 
you are bumper to bumper going 2kph, or you are bumper to bumper
going 110kph.  West Coasters will usually wait until most of 
the boot clears when passing before entering your lane. 

Then there is Korea.  Their bus system, nicknamed "Screamers" by
the Americans living there, don't stop.  They have these long bus
stops where the bus just slows down and rolls by.  A girl will 
push passengers out the back door at the beginning of the bus
stop, and pull them on near the end of the bus stop.  Then, when
everyone is snug, the bus accelerates to just under the 
rotational speed of the planet Earth and merges into traffic.

Germany has the most interesting concept of the freeway onramp.
They end.  Not long after you enter the ramp you see this rather
solid looking barrier, backed by trees (never *ever* hit a tree
in Germany!), and approaching faster than you thought possible.
Thankfully I didn't have to drive there.

I suppose what I've been saying is that driving habits are
different everywhere, even from State to State in my own
country.  I'm sure I'll get very frustrated while driving
in New Zealand, but if the roads are really rough, the
turns really sharp, and I can get my hands on a Range Rover
or other 4wheel drive vehicle, *I'm* going to have fun.

Shawn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 01:38:51 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

rcpolloc@athena.mit.edu (Robert C Pollock) writes:

> Everybody around Boston says Boston drivers are bad... but coming from
> NZ I think they're downright courteous.  At least to pedestrians.  I
> still have to get used to cars actually stopping to let you cross the
> road.  When I went to Otago Uni, cars would ACCELERATE.

And I suppose you would get out of the way? There's your problem right
there, your behaviour is encouraging their actions. If a car accelerates
towards you on a pedestrian crossing, you should significantly slow down. A
pedestrian has right of way on a crossing and you need to remind drivers of
this. If you don't hear their brakes lock up you're not doing it right. You
may suffer a few *minor* injuries, but at least you'll know you were in the
right, and hospitals are such fun places to visit anyway.

						- k

PS the above advice does *NOT* apply to Auckland city buses. They don't
stop. Ever.

-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
From: roger@otago.ac.nz (Roger Grauwmeijer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Mistakes in scnz faq (unofficial)
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:42:19 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1992Nov17.122316.662@fri.cri.nz>, wakelins@fri.cri.nz writes:
> 
> There are two mistakes in the faq.
> 
> The first has been pointed out by several readers - namely, the fact that
> Buzzy Bees are still being made (albeit in a factory outside Shanghai).

The last Buzzy Bee I bought, about three months ago for a friends child in 
Canada, WAS made in NZ! I can't recall where, but I distinctly remember noting 
the fact.

Rog.
-- 
      ____
100%  \  / Roger Grauwmeijer                       Internet: roger@otago.ac.nz
QUEER  \/  B0 f-- t+ w c g(+) k(-) s+ e: h- p!              Ph: +64 3 479 8560
Operations Controller, Computing Services Centre           Fax: +64 3 479 8577
University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Dunedin, N.Z.             AH: +64 3 474 0352
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`You are perfect, you are sheer, If you are a redhead queer' - Erasure (No GDM)
From: obrien@accel.aa.washington.edu (Scott O'Brien)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: scnz faq (unofficial, long)
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:24:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov17.172415.15269
Reply-To: obrien@accel.aa.washington.edu (Scott O'Brien)
Organization: U of Wash Dept of Aeronautics and Astronautics

|> >Buzzy Bees:  A quintissential piece of Kiwiana.  It is a small wooden
|> >bee that toddlers can drag around on a piece of string. It has wings
|> >that rotate (backwards) and it makes a wierd clicking sound.  They are
|> >no longer made, much to the author's remorse.
|> 
|> AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|> Whadya mean, no more buzzy bees? Is anyone out there in netland
|> prepared to sell me theirs?
|> 

I hope Mum kept mine!!  
I have seen a few plastic imatations here though.


|> >The worst pies in New Zealand can be had for NZ$1.60 a piece at a
|> >grimy, smelly, cockroach-infested petrol staion by Lake Karapiro.
|> 
|> You were definitely wrong about the worst place in NZ. I am, however,
|> prepared to admit a minute possibility that Lake Karapiro pies are
|> worse than end-of-holiday pies at the Auckland Uni Caff. 
|> 
|> Michael W.
|> 

Unfortunatly I beg to differ.  Before its untimely demise the worst pies were
the Kiwi pubs maggot packs (as they were affectionately refered).  What 
those hard chunky pieces were I'll never know,  nor would I want to.

________________________________________________________
Scott O'Brien                        Just a Kiwi making the most of his wind
Dept. of Aero & Astro
University of Washington
Seattle, Washington
________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Car rental in NZ
From: graeme@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz ( Graeme Moffat)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:28:43 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

hamish@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>Try getting hold of a crowd called rent-a-dent. They hire out older cars,
>rather than something thats brand new and in mint condition (NOt to say theirs
>aren't any good, they just aren't factory new like Avis Hertz Budget cars tend
>to be, and so the prices are of course lower.
>Sorry I don't have a fax or phone for them Perhaps somebody in Auk could be
>kind enough to look in the phone book.

RENT-A-DENT
 Rental Cars & Vans
  Auckland Airport  Private Bag   +64-9-276-8020
  Manukau City                         -262-3987
  Central City                         -524-8891
  North Shore                          -480-0866

Don't know if these are related:
RENT A WRECK                           -357-0019
RENT-A-BOMB  42 Daytona Rd Henderson   -630-0726

-- 
Graeme Moffat                g.moffat@aukuni.ac.nz \ Time wastes us all, 
Computer Aided Design Centre,  Fax: +64-9-366-0702 /  our bodies & our wits
School of Engineering,    Ph: +64-9-737-999 x8384 /  But we waste time,
University of Auckland, Private Bag, Auckland, NZ \   so time & we are quits
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: hamish@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:47:37 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <of27T6q00hsBJA_mAy@cs.cmu.edu>, Michael Witbrock <mjw+@cs.cmu.edu> writes:
> Compulsory seat belts, bike helmets, motorbike jackets and the like make
> perfect sense in a country which has socialised medicine (as all
> countries should). One could argue that one should be able to
> simultaneously opt out of these protections and the health care system,
> but I doubt that the number of takers would justify the trouble of the
> legislation.
> 
> michael

Agreed. Wholehartedly. (sp?).

And...

Just to get you all going again. Another reason that helmets must be
compulsary, is that it protects those riders who think they are so good that
they don't need a helmet. Hands up all those who think they are so marvelous
that they don't need a helmet. Now how many of them have ever swerved suddenly,
or hit a pothole such that they could come off their bike? Bet none of you can
say not me. Because it just happens. People on bikes do tend to ride in the
stupidest of places. (Like pulling out to the middle of the road to let people
waiting at pedestrian crossings go).

Face it. Even the safest of riders will have an off day when hey ride in the
wrong place. If you are wearing a helmet, then you have less chance of being a
burden on my already too high taxes through head injury if somebody hits you
(Doesn't matter whose fault it is it still does the same damage).

haveing said that of course, I still don't wear a helmet (But in 14 or so
months I'll have to), and I also prefer tax payer funded health care.

Now the point of all this drivel is that some people (ie kids and things that
don't always look where they are going), need a helmet. Because you can't tell
who they are just by looking you have to make everybody conform to make sure
they do.

Oh yeah. The proposed fine isn't high enough. Make it $100, and for the first
one the fine should also purchase you a new helmet so you have no excuse for
the second (Which should be even higher).

-- 
Hamish Marson, SCMS, University of Waikato             |
hamish@waikato.ac.nz.  Fax +64 7 8384066               | Computers are only 
Disclaimer: Remember. You heard it here first!         |   Human.....
		  
If at first you don't succeed, you must be doing something wrong.
                                        -- Charles Merrill Smith
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
From: andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:55:30 GMT
Organization: Distributed Systems Group, Comp Sci, Victoria University of Wellington

In article <58sis-b@massey.ac.nz> N.Perry@massey.ac.nz writes:
>On Friday it was announced that after an investigation into road
>safety that (a) a zero-alchol limit would not be imposed as it was
>unrealistic and (b) cyclists would be forced to wear helmets.
>
>Cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity (certain types might
>be, such as racing, but general cycling is not). As such people should
>not be forced to protect themselves, though if they wish to they may,
>as it violates a fundamental principle that people should be protected
>from injury by others (or from their own activities). NO OTHER section
>of society is forced to protect themselves from injury in this way.

Sure they are.  Motorcyclists have to wear helmets, motorists have to
wear seatbelts, boats have to have lifevests (I think), etc.  Some may
see it as the continuing encroachment of government in our lives.  I
like the idea of motorists wearing seatbelts, cyclists wearing
helmets, boatees wearing lifejackets.  I would like to think that
people have the choice about it but as in most situations someone is
deciding where the limit of personal choice sits.  Whether you agree
or not this limit has to be somewhere so I would rather argue for
consistancy than the placement of the limit.

andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,massey.bizarre
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 11:54:31 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Phil Etheridge, aka news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System), writes:

> Nigel Perry, aka news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System), writes:
> 
> > Cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity (certain types might
> 
> OK, so we've already gone through this at morning tea on Friday, BUT...

I was about to say, don't you guys have an smis.general newsgroup or
something on one of your servers for this discussion?

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
Organization: Massey University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:47:49 GMT

From article <BxtwwJ.9t9@comp.vuw.ac.nz>, by andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond):
> In article <58sis-b@massey.ac.nz> N.Perry@massey.ac.nz writes:
>>On Friday it was announced that after an investigation into road
>>safety that (a) a zero-alchol limit would not be imposed as it was
>>unrealistic and (b) cyclists would be forced to wear helmets.
>>
>>Cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity (certain types might
>>be, such as racing, but general cycling is not). As such people should
>>not be forced to protect themselves, though if they wish to they may,
>>as it violates a fundamental principle that people should be protected
>>from injury by others (or from their own activities). NO OTHER section
>>of society is forced to protect themselves from injury in this way.
> 
> Sure they are.  Motorcyclists have to wear helmets, motorists have to
> wear seatbelts, boats have to have lifevests (I think), etc.  Some may
> see it as the continuing encroachment of government in our lives.  I
> like the idea of motorists wearing seatbelts, cyclists wearing
> helmets, boatees wearing lifejackets.  I would like to think that
> people have the choice about it but as in most situations someone is
> deciding where the limit of personal choice sits.  Whether you agree
> or not this limit has to be somewhere so I would rather argue for
> consistancy than the placement of the limit.
> 
> andy

The point is cyclists are not likely to injure themselves badly
(of course they may, as may pedestrians by falling over and hitting their
heads). A motorist/motrcyclist etc. is in control of potential dangerous
machine travelling at high speeds, they often injure themselves and others.
In making cycle helmets compulsory we are switching to protecting the victims.
It is a MAJOR change in attitude.

Also the propaganda behind wearing helmets gives the impression that they
give a lot more protection than they do - a false sense of security. The
CTC (British Cyclists Association) has tested helmets and would argue that
for a helmet to be tough enough to be really good it would also be too heavy
for a cyclist to wear - this does not apply to motorcycle helmets as the
person is sitting still unlike a cyclist who is propelling a bike, and hence
can wear a heavier helmet.

Wear a helmet is you wish, they are of some benefit. But to make them
compulsory is just avoiding the real problem.

-- 
---
Dr Nigel Perry                    Email: N.Perry@massey.ac.nz
Department of Computer Science    Tel: +64 6 356 9099 ext 8900
Massey University                 Fax: +64 6 350 5611
Palmerston North
New Zealand
Xref: sparky soc.culture.new-zealand:3047 soc.culture.australian:4888
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Re: US Gun Lobbyist Visits
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 13:00:15 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.

kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:

> > Is there a serious attempt to do this?  I don't think there can be any 
> > possible justification for handguns or semi-automatic weapons to be 
> > freely available. I have yet to hear anyone come up with one either.
> 
> <sarcasm alert>
> 
> Semi-automatic weapons?!?! Oh no?! The horror!!!
> 
> <sarcasm off>
> 
> Hands up if anyone here actually has a clue what a semi-automatic rifle is.
 
                           HAND UP

> "Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
                        ^ I give up who?

  
  Jon  Clarke                                        Z*NET Pacific
  ================================================================
  Phone (+649) 358-5589  GEnie   : J.CLARKE6      CI$ : 75300,1642
  Fax   (+649) 302-2672  Hexagon : HSBC NZ EBD    IFNA: 3:772/105
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  "The problem is between the chair and the Keyboard"  JimT NCR'91
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Arming the police (US Gun Lobbyist Visits)
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:09:53 GMT
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

rwturner@IASTATE.EDU (Richard W Turner) writes:

>In my view NZ gun laws are adequate and 
>we don't need interference from extremist
>outsiders.  I can't see their message finding
>fertile ground in NZ.

   UK police are not normally armed.  US police are.
   How about NZ and Oz police, do they normally carry guns?
If they are not then any loosening of the gun ownership
laws might result in the police also becoming armed.

>Richard Turner
>(moderately conservative kiwi = liberal by US standards)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.new-zealand:2970 alt.alien.visitors:8373
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NZ UFO Reports in Mainstream Press 1989
From: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott)
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:31:06 GMT
Reply-To: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand

(Mark McWiggin) writes
>An aquaintance mentioned something about a bizzare series of UFO reports
>coming out of New Zealand in 1989,allegedly including guys wearing
>"USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed UFO

There have not been any reports resembling the descrition you mention, or at
least not to the best of my Knowledge. If such an incident did take place it
would have made major headlines within New Zealand as well as much discusion
among us in the UFO research community

However there was one report in the weekly Tabloid newspaper "Sunday News"
for the 14th May 1989 with the bold headlines "ALIENS SIGHTED". The report
went on to mention taht golfers at the Wairakei International Golf Course
had seen Three Green Monkey-like Animals strolling out of the mist/
 My attempts to track down the witnesses through the reporter was fruitless.
A phone call to the manager of the golf course (spoke to his wife who also
worked there) was equqally fruitless as they had not been told anything
either, by any of the golfers on the course. The first they heard of this
claim was the newspaper report and they had also nesver heard of the
principal person making this report
 Another colleage attempting to track down this story phoned all the people
in the district with the same name as the principal person making this
report (to the newspaper) was also unsuccesfull as all of those he contacted
denied being resposisible for it.

(Marsha Woosbury) writes
>it may not be widely known outside of New Zealand but certainly within
>....there are many insatances of UFO Sightings in New Zealand and a high
>percentage around Blenheim. The Marlborough Express are replete with the
>sories of possible sightings.

Again those of us among the UFO research community are aware that over the
last 40 years ther have been a large number of "Reported UFO Sightings"
around New Zealand. However for there to be an unusually high number of
such reorts to come from one area in particular (a possible Flap !!)
area such as Blenheim is most unusual and not known .


I would ceratinly ask both Mark and Marsha to check out their sources of 
information and keep me informed on more specific and accurate information.

I would also like to hear of any other additional Reported sightings from 
around New Zealand should anyone care to keep me posted
I am New Zealand Representative for the Texas (USA) based Mutual UFO Network
Inc (MUFON). I also hold a reasonable Archive of UFO Material going back to
1952 when the first UFO group was started here in New Zealand.

-- 
Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz
Voice  : 64-9-6315825
Snail  : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand