HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josip@src.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Organization: Systems Research Center, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:05:55 GMT

In article <4eWn0f600WB6AQlVQE@andrew.cmu.edu> Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Josip Loncarcic writes:
>
>My claims are based on the few useful studies which were done on this
>matter, where both Serbian and Croatian historians compared a wide
>variety of available information, such as name lists, demographic
>studies, official government documents, etc., and came up with
>essentially the same conclusions.  I've reported those conclusions
>from a reference by a Serbian historian, but I could quote Croatian
>sources which are essentially similar.
>
>
>
>I say:
>With all due respect to the knowledge of the historians you go on to
>quote, generally the professionalism of historians from Eastern
>Europe is dobted.  Their works are regarded with suspicion, and for
>good reason, many were recognized as being simply part of the propaganda
>of the governments of those totalitarian Communist/Socialist states.
>Rad

Yes and no.  Yes, some Eastern European historians are simply 
mouthpieces of their governments; and no, not all of them are
so unprofessional.  

To say that some historians simply rehash official propaganda lines
does NOT mean that East European history is completely plastic.  
There are independent, serious researchers, some of whom are
working in the West and are not subject to influence of East
European governments.

Finally, you are sadly mistaken if you think for a moment that
"Western" label guarantees quality.  For example, British historian
A. J. P. Taylor is very well known.  And yet, in his book "The
Hapsburg Monarchy, 1809-1918" he demonstrates limited knowledge 
of South Slav history: eg. he falsely claims that Frank's party had
a majority in the Croatian Parliament on October 29, 1918; also
he falsely believes that Serb-Croat Coalition fell apart at the start
of WWI.  This is deep ignorance, common even among the best of Western
historians.  (Additional study of the area has led Taylor to
a more mature presentation of South Slav history in his book
"The Struggle for Mastery in Europe 1848-1918".)

So even the best Western historians have only superficial
knowledge of Eastern Europe.  This, I think, is symptomatic
of the general lack of concern in the West for the East.

My point is this: we've got to work with the best available
information.  A study which cross-examines multiple sources
including census data is more convincing that one man's opinion.

Josip


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:39:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.131828.10261@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>In article 17390@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>In article <-#!nfbp.yosi@netcom.com> yosi@netcom.com (Yosi Almog) writes:
>>>
>>>What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
>>>in Israel?
>>
>>You are asking the wrong person. However I will be honest with you and tell
>>you my opinion. If you ask the question "Does a Jew have the right to live
>>in Israel?" I would answer "A Jew have the right to live anywhere in the 
>>world and so does anyone else". As far as is it important, I would say I don't
>>know simply because I am not a Jew.
>
>Well, then, do I, as a Jew, have the right to live in Mecca? Do you think that
>I have the right to go up onto the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, into the
>Al-Aksa mosque, and worship in my Jewish way?
>
>Be honest.

Well, I will be honest with you. If you tell me as a non-Jew that I am welcome
to live anywhere in the World except that I am not allowed to enter a 
synagogue or live in a certain area in Jerusalem that is sacred to Jews,
I will gladly accept that. Not allowing non-muslims to live in Mecca 
or go up onto the Temple Mount is a religious belief. You can do it if
you convert to Islam and I think you don't have plans for that. 
>


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nyu
Subject: Re: Stopping Another Holocaust
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:38:30 GMT

In article 14657@husc3.harvard.edu, stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
> Just a finishing note on Mr.XX's posting.

No, not a finishing note at all. And it's XXX to you.

>  He did not produce a single
> argument up to now, excluding some highly illogical stuff about
> phones in Sarajevo ( source: his private communication with family, I 
> guess).  His only purpose is to avoid serious arguments and play
> on the emotions.  I understand that, since his emotions are
> running high, and he knows that he would not be able, together with
> the rest of the world to make Serbs live under Muslim rule once again
> ( or to that matter Croatian rule once again).

Ahhh. Here is the rub. In all its glory, here, exposed, is the rub.
This is the thing that drives all this rabid hatred and fear. In one
unguarded instant Milan let it out. I and the rest of the world will
not make Serbs live under Muslim rule ...ONCE AGAIN! Milan and the 
Serbian "irregulars" systematically targeting Bosnian-Herzegovinian
civilians are not fighting Bosnian Muslims. They're fighting the 
Ottoman Empire which had the audacity to defeat the Serbs in the 
12th(?) century. Now it all makes sense. I can rest easier now
knowing that tens of thousands of Bosnian-Herzegovinian civilians
are being shelled and driven from their homes because 7 centuries
ago they adopted the religion of a now defunct group (those Ottomans)
who had the unmitigated gall to humiliate Serbs. That I can accept.
I can rest now.





Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Supplemental v Day Schools
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:25:20 GMT
Summary: anecdotal evidence


A few anecdotes to add to the discussion of whther less knowledgable
students were readily welcomed to new schools.  I suspect this part of the
discussion is superfluous as I expect there will be a range of
temperatures associated with welcomes in any school's attitude.

I went from a yeshiva to a day school for fifth grade.  I had the Chumash
but not the Hegrew language skills and it took me a fair amount of time to
acclimate but, with the exception of one or two kids, didn't have any
trouble.

A few years later when the Russians started coming (early 1970s), when
the first entered the school they acclimated quickly.  The first in my
class came after having spent 2 years in Israel.  We spoke to him in
Hebrew (he didn't know English and we didn't know Hebrew).  We used to
play cards during recess and between classes and he picked up our games
within the first couple weeks.  Our second Russian was brilliant in math
but rather quiet.  She was accepted quickly because she was so bright.  I
don't know if she thinks she had as easy a time as we believed.

In other classes, as long as there were only a one or two new people
entering at a time, they acclimated and assimilated quickly.  Once there
was a sudden influx, the need to make friends with the majority -
something that required language as well as social skills - decreased and
Russian clicques did form.

In a Day School, there are usually grades that have larger numbers of
new kids or kids leaving.  When kids come from communities with schools
with particularly bad (junior) high schools, there is a large influx.
When the kids come from areas with better high schools, they would leave
before 9th grade.

On the whole, I'd say a day school environment is accepting of new kids
and, by extension, of kids with lesser educational backgrounds.

-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: weissman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Shul burned down on Tishah B'Av
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:44:30 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town


A fire occurred on Shabbos the ninth of Av in early morning hours at the 
Chabad shul in Cape Town, South Africa.  The blaze occured on the sadest 
day of the Jewish calandar - Tisha B'Av. On this day more then 2000 years 
ago the Jewish temple in Jerusalem was destoryed by fire.

Rabbi Mendel Popack said he was notified about the destruction of the 
Chabad shul and community centre at 5AM. Many religous and holy objects, 
sacred scrolls and ancient and antique books had been destroyed, Rabbi 
Popack said. "We thank G-d no one was injured or any of th adjoining 
buildings affected. The community is shocked and horrified at th etragedy 
and the time it took place," he said.
Rabbi Popack said a committee had already been formed to collect funds to 
build a larger centre.

A spokesman for the Cape Town Fire and Rescue Services said the fire had 
probably been caused by an electrical short circuit. He said 18 men using 
three water jets had extinguished the blaze, which had spread to an 
adjoining house.

Rabbi Popack appealed for anyone who could assist to Emergency Fire Appeal, 
PO Box 27133, Sea Point Cape Town 8050, South Africa.

-------------
Taken from  Cape Times 

Note:  The 3 Sifrei Torah in the Aron and the area arround the aron did not 
burn. The rest of the shul burned to the ground. Nine pairs of Teffilin 
over thirty Muzuzahs many Tallisim and almost all Seforim perished execept 
for the shelf with the book Malach Razial.

Weissman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rig@eng.umd.edu (Ronald Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:45:58 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <j-4msqf.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Stephen Saroff speaks of doing justly. Since World Jewry isn't doing
>anything to the Moslems in Bosnia, that positive precept doesn't
>apply to the situation. Failing to intervene when another country
>does unjustly does not contravene the requirement to "do justly."

What about the Talmudic statement reading something like "Do not stand
idly by the blood of your neighbor"?  (Maybe you are just trying to
argue some technical point about which precepts imply which
obligations, but I get the sense that you are arguing that there is no
obligation to do anything to save people from being killed.  Actually,
I don't recall; the particular line I'm citing if analyzed in terms of
the original Hebrew may only apply to Jews, but there still are other
bases for the idea that one should intervene.)

>There has also been much back and forth about Croatian cooperation with
>the Nazis, and much defense of today's Croats as not the same
>people, not responsible for what their ancestors did, etc. It's been
>my experience that without massive and dramatic overt public education
>and opinion campaigns, anti-semitic parents generally teach it to their

Your message got truncated here, but I assume it ends with "children."
So let's teach them something different instead of essentially passing
a death sentence on an entire group based on ethnicity.

Disclaimer:  I'm skimming this thread very selective, because the volume
has been excessive.
-- 

Ronald I. Greenberg	(Ron)		rig@eng.umd.edu
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Can of Worms
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:53:39 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

From: sa@corner.wpb.fl.us (Sheldon Ackerman)  
 
To: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
 
SS> "technically" a goy, I ask who are you to "decide" that only
SS> your sect
SS> knows how to define who a Jew is?  Also, who gave you
SS> monopoly control over
SS> our religion (in fact, don't you represent barely 10% of the
SS> worldwide
SS> Jewish population; that's hardly a controlling interest)?
SS> --
SS>        Stan Krieger 
 
What do percentages have to do with it? If 90% of the Jews intermarry or 
eat bacon, it makes it OK? If the majority of individuals are on drugs, 
then who are we to make drugs illegal?
 
Sheldon Ackerman
---
 * Origin: WORLDS LARGEST strictly JEWISH BBS - (718) 756-7201 
(1:278/610)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
Summary: More benefits from Israel's genius
Keywords: ISRAEL CLINTON BOOR ARKIE SLICK-WILLY
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:09:47 GMT

In article <mannj.714073473@acf9> mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:
[...]
>
>I found it peculiar that some of the reasoning in this document was a little
>muddled.   For example, the article praises "the genius of [Israel's] people,"
>(I think that was the phrase,) and goes on to say that America has benefited
>from this genius.  In what way?  In that Israel bought so many billions of 
>dollars of American products.  How the heck does that show the genius of a 
>people? [...]
>

Here are just a couple ways that I know of, and there are many more:

1)  Water-parsimonious agricultural practices (drip irrigation et al.)

2)  Non-chemical pest control (currently being exported by Kibbutz Sde
    Eliyahu)

I believe that many computer science and aeronautics advances that
originated in Israel have also been adopted in the U.S.

For a more comprehensive list, see your local Israeli Consulate.
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Summary: Spelling of "Kosher for Passover" in Hebrew
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:58:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.193505.19070@njitgw.njit.edu>
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>Even at Passover, just look for the cans which are stamped "kosher for
>Passover".  Unfortunately, the stamp is in Hebrew, so you may have a
>problem, but there is normally no Hebrew anything embossed in the lids
>of Coke cans, so it should still be OK.
>

If it helps, the inscription should be (reading from right to left):

  Kaf, Shin, Resh, <space>, Lamed, Peh, Samech, Chet
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nyu
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:44:30 GMT

In article u00WB40kkqIL@andrew.cmu.edu, re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
> @nyu writes:
> Most importantly, Milan has never understood (and
> probably never will) that people like me who are
> keeping this issue alive are not doing so for the
> Croats or the Muslims or the Serbs, but for ourselves.
> People who care about the sanctity of human life (all
> human life), about justice and decency will work to
> help those who are suffering,friend or enemy.
> 
> 
> I say:
> You're either duing it in ignorance, or with bad will.  When you
> take sides in such a complicated issue (Croats and Bosnians
> *are themselves* running concentration camps, have commited
> attrocities, and have deported hundreds of thousands), you
> are not acting in the interest of the noble ideas you claim.
> I say our attitude should be toSerbs is a mistake.
> 
>            Radaccuse only t


Please repost and/or finish your thoughts.
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:25:07 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <1992Aug18.172803.1480@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>For the person who originally posted this article: Do you really expect to here
>NO! for this question on SCJ?

Why do you flaunt your ignorance of Jews and Judaism?  Among Reform
Jews (especially "Classical Reform") there are those that don't feel it
is at all important to settle in Israel.  Even among the more Orthodox
there will be those that say Israel should not (or must not) be settled
until the Messiah comes.  One example is the Neturei Kartah that
are/were (largely for propoganda reasons) included in the Palestinian
delegation to the peace talks.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lilorenzin@apollo.davidson.edu (...FLAME)
Subject: looking for information on sephardic jews
Organization: Davidson College, Davidson, NC
Reply-To: lilorenzin@apollo.davidson.edu
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:49:41 GMT
X-Posted-From: apollo.davidson.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

hello!  i'm looking for information concerning all aspects of the sephardim
(spanish jews), especially those of the balkans, turkey, the dodecanese
islands, and their descendants, wherever they have settled in the 20th
century.  i'm especially interested in their folklore, but any information
on the cultural background -- art, film, course syllabi etc -- would be
helpful for my research.  i'd be willing to share the materials i've
collected if anyone else is interested.  

						salud!
							lisa lorenzin,
						for isaac jack levy

if you have information, please send it by e-mail if possible - 
the preferred address would be rozumwalt@apollo.davidson.edu, altho
my account would also work.  thanks!

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:14696 alt.discrimination:3933
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:52:37 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug21.174821.29949@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>Carl M. Kadie writes:

>>In their effort to restore funding to the Boy Scouts of America, the
>>Bank of America and the United Way of Suburban Chicago have lifted
>>their bans on supporting racially and religiously discriminatory
>>programs. (Note: the United Way of Suburban Chicago is distinct from
>>the United Way of Chicago.)

The United Way definitely supports even openly religious organizations.
Now one MAY wish to support some activities of an organization of a
religion in which one does not believe, but this should not be made
part of a community campaign such as the United Way.  Specific offenders
are the Y*CA and the Salvation Army.  Even if the activities of the
Salvation Army supported are totally areligious, they support the 
membership of an extreme Christian sect.

>BSA's position on this matter is very simple.  The standards of
>membership represent positive moral values, and membership is open
>to anyone willing to live according to these values. These values
>are not for sale.

I agree with Mr. Kruger that the BSA is not overly discriminating
against Judaism.  But it is against Buddhists, agnostics, atheists,
polytheists.  And the Boy Scout oath is one which would have been
objected to by our sages, who discouraged oaths except in extreme
circumstances.

This is not to say that the BSA is an evil organization.  As the
readers of scj know, I am an unorthodox religious Jew.  But I object
to imposing any form of religion on the youth of our country, expecially
by subterfuge.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ckinberg@milton.u.washington.edu (Clare Kinberg)
Subject: Gates NY Times Op Ed
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:58:03 GMT
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: CLINTON TEXT: ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
Date: 22 Aug 92 19:53:32 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

>Palestinian State
>
>The Palestinians have the right -- as specified in the Camp David Accords -- to
>participate in the determination of their future.  But they do not have the
>right to determine Israel's future.  For that reason, Bill Clinton opposes the
>creation of an independent Palestinian state.
>

The creation of a Palestinian state will determine the future of Israel? What
kind of statement is this? 


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Keywords: Persian Gulf War
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:42:42 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <2443@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>
>I was here during the war.  What rules that I might otherwise be
>expected to follow do I get exempted from?  Is the exemption only from
>the rule against advertising, or can I substitute one of my own?


Hmmm... I was in a war.  Does that mean I am exempted from whatever rule
you substitute?  Or does that only apply to if I was in an Israeli war?

Or does that mean I have to listen to more "moccasin tales" again?

<Why can't someone have an opinion on something without going through it??
 "I don't like child abuse."   "So, were you abused?"    "No."    "Then you
  really don't know what you are talking about.">

  I got an opinion for everything.  Just ask!


-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Blood spots in eggs
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:54:28 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

From yy@corner.wpb.fl.us
 
AC>-> YK> open a fresh egg, s/he is supposed to 'flip' the egg yolk
AC>-> YK> and see that there
AC>-> YK> is no blood spot.
AC>Do you mean to say that every restaurant, bakery, etc. flips over 
every egg
AC>before using it??? Why can't we rely on the 'candling'?
 
The bakeries usually use powder or yolks from a bulk process. However 
there
are bakeries that DO have each individual raw egg checked by a person 
hired
to sit/stand and crack them...
 
AC>-> YK> If one is going to
AC>-> YK> cook more eggs, one should try to make it an odd number
AC>-> YK> rather than an even
AC>What does this accomplish?
 
The Tracate Pesachim has a whole explanation on ZUGOT-PAIRS, and how to 
be
careful with this. Also discusses the 4 cups on Pesach and why they can 
be of
even number whereas other things should be odd numbered.
 
As far as eggs. If one will cook 2 eggs and one of them turns out to be
spotted, then it's a 50-50 on the pot. (Some say the spotted egg is 
actually
treif). This is also the reason why a specific pot is used for eggs only.
However if one cooks 3 egges, then there are more good ones and thus the 
pot
remians 'kosher'.
 
--- 
 * Origin: WORLDS LARGEST strictly JEWISH BBS - (718) 756-7201 
(1:278/610)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish