HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross)
Subject: Re: The UNIQUE Egyptian Brick Pyramid !!!
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:01:19 GMT

mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
: Quoting from _Brick_Engineering_ by Plummer and Reardon (1943, Structural
: Clay Products Institute), page 8:
: 
: "Even in that treasure house of achievement in stone, Egypt, there is one
: pyramid at Dashur, just south of Cairo, that is of brick, and an inscription
: boasts of it in words roughly translated as thus:  "Disparage me not by
: comparing me with pyramids built of stone.  I am as much superior to them
: as Ammon is superior to the rest of the deities.  I am constructed of brick
: made from mud which adhered to the ends of poles and was drawn up from the
: bottom of the lake."

I wonder if the inscription includes any mention of whether the spacecraft
used to transport the bricks used neutron-pulse or gravitron engines.

-- 
Brian Ross                          "Welcome to Canada." -- Twin Peaks Movie.
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca            
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:18:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.153100.6512@panix.com> stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>>3.  domestication isn't irreversible.  Elk
>>    ("moose" to North Americans) and stinging
>>    nettles once were kept by some northern
>>    Europeans, and a number of ungulates by
>>    southwestern Asians; no more.
>
>Nice bib, Cameron.  But if elks are Meese (pl., idiosyncratic) that's
>news to them.  
No, I'm serious.  Europeans say "elk", and
mean <<Alces alces>>, which is what all
English speakers in North America call
"moose".  Any Scandinavians care to confirm
this?
>
>However, to the topic at hand: what about the domestication of plants
>and animals?  Cameron, you noted correctly that domestication emerges in
>various places at various time, and that there's no clear priority of
>plants or animals.  But you neglected the pet factor.  As a generation
>of covert scholarship has shown, animals were first domesticated for
>their "cute" qualities, rather than for food, protection, etc.  This
>explains why the earliest fossil animals that are demonstrably
>associated with human settlements are bunnies, kittens, and ducklings.
			.
			.
			.
You folks in the audience should know that we did
*not* set this up beforehand.  Without any pre-
paration, Steve has hit on one of my many fond,
if unsubstantiated, convictions.  I think economics
is interesting and important stuff, but I'm just
sure that the first domesticates were pets and
ornaments.  Among other attractions of this theory,
it explains why domestication has occurred so often.
Necessity isn't sufficiently powerful to impel hu-
mans to mess with camels and cats and chrysanthemums;
play, however, is a big enough force in human affairs
to yield such results.

I also believe that metallurgy caught on, not to make
swords and plowshares, but bangles and beads.  I
think C. S. Smith gets first credit for that idea,
though ...
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: ayoub@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:18:47 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison

In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
>It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
>race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
>are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
>world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
>for positive examples.  References would be Great!
>

As an Egyptian, I think the claim that the Egyptian race died
is  *false*.  There is  no evidence in history (at least none
that I am aware of that supports the "extinction" of Egyptian
race). Certainly, several ethnically different people settled
in Egypt (Greeks, Romans, Persians, Arabs, Turks,  etc.) over 
the last 2500 years and intermarried with the local  Egyptian 
population but they did not displace the Egyptian people. The
proof is simple,  go and look inside and outside the Egyptian
Museum in Cairo and I doubt you will find a difference in the
faces.  Also a lot of Ancient Egyptian culture is still alive
in the modern Egyptian society (Ref:  The episode about Egypt
in the TV series called "Legacy" by Michael Woods that was on
PBS twice last year.  I  am sure you can order it easily from   
PBS).  So even though, people came and people left, religions 
changed, rulers changed, etc,  Egyptians  are still in Egypt!

Nabil

          .-------------------------------------------------------------.
         /  Nabil Ayoub                        ____/   __  /    ____/  /
        /  Engine Research Center             /       /   /    /      /
       /  Dept. of Mechanical Engineering    ___/    __  /    /      /
      /  University of Wisconsin-Madison    /       /   |    /      /
     /  Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu  _____/ __/   _|  _____/  /
    '-------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants,sci.bio,sci.lang
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:17:40 GMT

In article <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>In article <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>>Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
>>for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
>>herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
>>occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
>>like to see actual references.
			.
			.
			.
>For other views, try
>
>        Ammerman, Albert J., and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza
>        1984    The neolithic transition and the genetics
>                of populations in Europe.
			.
			.
>        Sauer, Carl Ortwin
>        1969    Agricultural origins and dispersals; the
>                domestication of animals and foodstuffs.
>                M.I.T. Press, Cambridge
>
			.
			.
			.
Bibliographic footnotes:
1.  No one called me on this, but it's injudicious
    to cite Ammerman and Cavalli-Sforza without
    noting that this is just one slant on the whole
    Proto-Indo-European program.  This is itself a
    big topic; its immediate implications for students
    of domestication are
    a.  PIEs have been studied a lot, and there's a
        lot of writing about them and their neighbors.
        Sometimes this obscures the fact that other
        peoples were involved in domestication.  I
        look forward to lots of good archeology coming
        from Southeast and East Asia in the next years
        (small note:  one of the first crops of the
        earliest Japanese was buckwheat, a personal
        favorite of mine);
    b.  there are people who do *not* agree with Ammer-
        man and Cavalli-Sforza;
    c.  this continues to be a hot area, with a lot of
        the results available in preprints, and not yet
        published in widely-available reviews.
2.  There's also an extensive literature on the biology
    of the domesticates.  I used Sauer to represent this,
    'cause he's such a great author, and reads well to
    anthro-archeo types; know, however, that there's now
    a lot more to it than this.
3.  One correspondent wrote to me,
	I'd like to add one more reference  which is
	"Plant Evolution and the Origin of Crop Species"
	by J. F. Hancock .This book is published by
	Printice-Hall and its ISBN number is 0-13-678590-5.
	Book is very readable and covers subjects you want
	to examine.By the way book is published in 1992.

If people want to discuss this more, consider trimming the list
of newsgroups which will receive follow-ups.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman)
Subject: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:37:52 GMT

Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
like to see actual references.

Also, information on the approximate order in which the various
food animals and food crops were domesticated would be
appreciated.  Thanks.

-dave
From: ed_eck@milkwy.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:08:07 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu>, ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes...
> 
>Hello,
> 
>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
>It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
>race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
>are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
>world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
>for positive examples.  References would be Great!
> 
> 
>Thanks alot!!
> 
> 
>-- 
>     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
>                     else lays claim to them.
>================================================================
>Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu


A few months ago I read a hisory of Africa that might be useful,
_The African Experience_ by Oliver. It covers the past several 
million years of African history in 500 or so pages, so it
obviously doesn't go into depth on any one subject. He spends
very little time on Egypt, but a lot of time on the other African
nations. He also spends much time on the origins and spread of 
language groups throughout Africa. 

It looks like it was written for an introductory college-level 
survey course.

E.
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:34:21 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

>In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu>, ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes...
>> 
>>Hello,
>> 
>>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more from the 'Egyptians as Blacks' people.
Someone has mentioned the Newsweek article on multiculturalism in another 
post, and as I remember it listed several authors and books.  One that was
mentioned (that I haven't read yet) is _Black Athena_ which tries to trace
most everything good about Greek culture to Egypt and thus to African culture.
From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: The UNIQUE Egyptian Brick Pyramid !!!
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:40:05 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Quoting from _Brick_Engineering_ by Plummer and Reardon (1943, Structural
Clay Products Institute), page 8:

"Even in that treasure house of achievement in stone, Egypt, there is one
pyramid at Dashur, just south of Cairo, that is of brick, and an inscription
boasts of it in words roughly translated as thus:  "Disparage me not by
comparing me with pyramids built of stone.  I am as much superior to them
as Ammon is superior to the rest of the deities.  I am constructed of brick
made from mud which adhered to the ends of poles and was drawn up from the
bottom of the lake."
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:23:39 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
>It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
>race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
>are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
>world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
>for positive examples.  References would be Great!

This is actually a very complicated issue, or better yet, set of
issues. Not the least of which is figuring out what one might mean by
"race." I've responded several times with recommendations to check out
Biblical Archaeology Review, and I'm beginning to feel like the
advertising manager for that publication. But once again, there is some
quite accessible material on this subject that appeared there about a
year ago, or perhaps even earlier. In this case, however, what was
interesting was not the original article (which did not make much of an
impression on me), but rather the flood of letters to the editor it
provoked. Lay people and scholars alike appeared "from the woodwork" to
dispute whether various periods within ancient Egyptian history were
dominated by "true" Africans or Semites, or--name your tribe. Some of
the responses were quite serious and the rest were at least
entertaining. The serious ones argued from evidence ranging from art
and historical descriptions to DNA. But the upshot was that we don't
know much and can prove less.

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 02:02:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.023421.5705@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff) writes:
|> >In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu>, ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes...
|> >> 
|> >>Hello,
|> >> 
|> >>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
|> >>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
|> 
|> I'm surprised there hasn't been more from the 'Egyptians as Blacks' people.
|> Someone has mentioned the Newsweek article on multiculturalism in another 
|> post, and as I remember it listed several authors and books.  One that was
|> mentioned (that I haven't read yet) is _Black Athena_ which tries to trace
|> most everything good about Greek culture to Egypt and thus to African culture.

What actually is the root of the egyptian race?  Did they migrate to the
Nile from the near east?
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
From: stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller)
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:31:00 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>In article <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>>Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
>>for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
>>herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
>>occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
>>like to see actual references.
>>
>There is much, much more to it than this, though.

>3.  domestication isn't irreversible.  Elk
>    ("moose" to North Americans) and stinging
>    nettles once were kept by some northern
>    Europeans, and a number of ungulates by
>    southwestern Asians; no more.

Nice bib, Cameron.  But if elks are Meese (pl., idiosyncratic) that's
news to them.  

However, to the topic at hand: what about the domestication of plants
and animals?  Cameron, you noted correctly that domestication emerges in
various places at various time, and that there's no clear priority of
plants or animals.  But you neglected the pet factor.  As a generation
of covert scholarship has shown, animals were first domesticated for
their "cute" qualities, rather than for food, protection, etc.  This
explains why the earliest fossil animals that are demonstrably
associated with human settlements are bunnies, kittens, and ducklings.
Goldfish have also been found in these contexts, however the lack of
tanks and bubblers leads to skepticism over whether these were actually
kept as pets, or whether early human society took them out of the pond
to "pet" them, inadvertantly strangling the poor fish.  If it is clearly
established, then, that animals were first domesticated purely as house
pets (actually, cave pets, tent pets and miserable hovel pets,
originally), it is less clearly established when the first humans turned
on their animal companions, wantonly slaughtering them for their flesh,
bones and skin.  Perhaps it was during a time of scarcity of Ding Dongs,
potato chips and Whoppers, the most popular foods of the lower
paleolithic.  As you might imagine, intensive research on this topic is
currently underway in places like Vinne's Tavern ("4 Friends 2 Meet!")
and I will report back to you when some new conclusions are reached or
it is closing time, which ever comes first.



-- 

__________________________________________________________
Steve Miller				stcmille@panix.com
		A Famous Rock Star!
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: bdeyoung@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: LaserDopplerVelocimeter (LDV)????
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:48:22 GMT


 I am looking for a laser doppler velocimeter (LDV, or LDA)
for a laboratory experiment. Single axis will be fine. Does
anyone know of any suppliers out there? I don't want to pay
alot of money, if that is possible. If anyone has plans I may
even be willing to build one, I would have to look at the cost
saving and the time involved.

Thanks for the help

Brad deYoung
Physics Department
Memorial University
St. John's, Newfoundland
A1B 3X7

bdeyoung@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Earthquake Outline
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:46:23 -0500

 andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes

[Some sage, and much appreciated, advice deleted.]

>Journalists are largely very busy rush rush sort of people.  Anything
>that will get used had better be very short so they can read it while
>trying to make a deadline.  

Agreed.  This is the raison d'etre for this project.

>It also better be cheap to give them over and over again because they are
>continually rotating jobs and the new
>people need to get everything over again.  

I hope that this will be electronically archived at some newspapers.  I have
not even thought about how to get hardcopies done yet.  I will take the idea
to my dean at the IUPUI school of journalism eventually.  Right now it is the
end of the semester and I figure he has his plate full trying to grade my
strange attempt at a page layout for his visual class.

>Its easier for them to ask
>us for the info then to look it up themselves so we tend to answer
>these questions constantly. 

This is one thing I hope to change, if only in a few.

>This does not apply to the real science
>writers, some of which are great, but to the bulk of news reporters.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is my intended audience.  I hope the project can do some good.

>Andy

Thanks Andy,
Thomas Freebairn

Xref: sparky sci.geo.geology:2589 ca.earthquakes:1464
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Unocal's Geothermal Dumping
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:03:05 GMT

In article <42688@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> xm9@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (richard g. adair) writes:
>I note that you're a unocal employee - or so I assume from your
>address.  I heard today that unocal has finalized the sale to Magma
>of its Imperial Valley geothermal plants and interests, as well as its
>interests in Long Valley and various Nevada sites.  I realize you're
>not in that division (that's in Santa Rosa, I think), but I was
>curious if you'd heard any skinny on the status of the unocal
>employees associated with these transferred properties.  Are they
>out on the street, or is Magma picking some of them up?

I've heard nothing different from the newspapers.  If I did hear something,
I am not supposed comment about impending business deals.

The sale is a small blow to pride, because when we were the largest geothermal
company in the world, we could claim to be an "environmental energy company."
(unless you live in Santa Barbara :-)
Economics are forcing energy companies to focus on fewer types of energy
sources in more localized areas.  The profits from selling geothermal will
finance the extraction of hydrocarbons from existing reserves.  Too many
projects competing for limited capital resources.
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Magnetic reversal?
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:06:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.023454.24441@pixel.kodak.com>, lawler@ektools.kodak.com (Ed Lawler) writes:
> > stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
> >The poles reverse frequently through geologic time.  But it never causes
> >any big problems.
> 
> I read in Jan'93 Sky And Telescope about the dating of the Yucatan
> crater. One thing that helped pin down the date to the CT boundary was
> that the magnetic field was reversed at that time.

The state of the field (normal or reversed) at one time point is insufficient
to date an event.  However, an accurate measure of the inclination an
declination of the field (regardless of reversed or normal) can be used
to determine the apparent pole position, and then comparing that to the
apparent wander path for the land mass in question can yield an accurate
age.

Reversal dating usually involves taking samples of a section that was deposited
over long enough time to record several reversals.  If the rate of deposition
is known, then a reversal time scale can be constructed and compared to the
known reversal time scale, and the age of the entire section is determined.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Earthquake Outline
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:59:34 GMT

In article <42679@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> xm9@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (richard g. adair) writes:
>Much of what has been proposed in the several course outlines listed
>here is covered in Bruce Bolt's primer, Earthquakes, available from Freeman. 
>I suggest a look at this book before setting out on the arduous path
>of accumulating all this material anew.

Good! I'll add this reference to the FAQ. :-)

(1) The dynamics of netnews sometimes justifies a frequently-asked-questions
section.  Whenever there is a large quake or some crackpot predicts an seismic
apocalypse, the earthquake newsgroups are inudated with the same old questions
and speculations.  It is convenient to have something on line then.
(2) It is not arduous for an expert to write such.