From: ST101019@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: East Timor Communist?????
Date: 10 Apr 1992 16:58:48 GMT
Organization: Brown University
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Azlan wrote..

Organization: Penn State University
From: <NXN101@psuvm.psu.edu>

A : East Timor is one of the strongest communist bases in the region.  The
East Timorese against an oppresive governent (like you said), but the
struggle of the Indonesian government to stop another disgusting awakening
of COMMUNISM.  Even the Australians are afraid of this fact cos' it is near
to their country.

This sounds like rhetoric from the Cold War. This sounds like the same
hypocritical hogwash that the US state department gives for supporting and
continuing to support fascist dictatorships in the Third World, including
some in our neighbourhood! :-(

If you are referring to FRETILIN, the East Timorese resistance, yes, it
did use to be Marxist in the times when Marxism was slightly more fashionable
than it is today. And can you really blame them for believing in a world
where everyone is equal? Face it, Marxism describes an UTOPIA and who does
not logically want that? Of course, everyone knows that communism sucks and
before Zam comes pointing at me and calling me a "yellow-skinned commie"
(which he has before) I'll have everyone know I think Marx was an idiot. Well,
not quite, but I had to write this paper on him and also I don't feel very
hospitable towards a lot of his ideas. But I digress. Do you read lists-seasia?
(Some Zam-types there too, only from Indonesia.) Did you read that Fretilin
has now renounced Marxism?


You really think that the Indonesian government is on some kind of crusade?
You think they are STRUGGLING?? Against what? Against a couple of
courageous students armed with flags and independence slogans and
trying desperately to tell the world what is going on in their land but
being silenced again and again and again?

You sound like Indonesia is doing us all a big favour in East Timor, against
a dangerous red menace. Do you know what Indonesia is doing and has done
in East Timor, I will send you newspaper clippings. Did you see the video
that I saw? Did you know that Indonesian troops fired cold-bloodedly at
unarmed, innocent civilians at a FUNERAL ceremony? Do you know that East
Timorese students are going on trial just for speaking their minds, just
for expressing their opinions, in effect, for doing *exactly* what all
of us are doing right now on soc.culture.asean. If any of you have expressed
anti-government sentiments - and many of you have - this is _subversion_
under Indonesian law, (or at any rate, this is how it has been interpreted
in the Timorese case) and the punishment is DEATH. Do you still think
Indonesia is *that* benevolent?

A : So, if you don't know why Indonesia invaded East Timor....NOW YOU KNOW!!!
Azlan, too many times in the past has communism been used as a convenient
excuse to further one's own self-interest. Maybe containment was one of the
reasons. But more important reasons : territorial expansion (since they had
Western Timor anyway) and OIL.  (You say you love crude oil, so you should
understand the desire for it.) Yes there is oil in the Timor sea. And that is
the reason why Australia is keeping its cowardly silence. Not because of
deterrence.

A : Australia coaxed Indonesia to invade East Timor.  Of course, to save
her ass from the communists without being condemned for the invasion.
Indonesia became the scapegoat of the decade for the interests of other
countries in the region especially Australia.

You know something? You never defined this Communist threat. Again, if
you mean Fretilin....I pause to laugh a bit. You know, it's almost like
saying, well, we can't allow the Karens in Burma to come to power because
we don't like their ideology. Like the Karens, the Timor case is one of a
beleaguered guerillea insurgency, without assistance from anyone else
(since all the other countries are supporting the dictatorship to maintain
their economic interests) and fighting tooth and nail against a highly
militarized, brutal and well-armed opponent. You can hardly call them a
threat. Like the Karens, all the East Timorese want is independence from
a dictatorship that really doesn't care very much about them and has no
qualms about squishing them off the face of the earth.

You know, Indonesia needn't have been the scapegoat. They could have invaded
East Timor and treated the people well. But they didn't.

A : be grateful to the Indonesians at least for once in your life.  We are
already uncomfortably near the god of communism China.  So, don't let another
one coming after our asses.   Will you?

I suppose you believe in the domino theory. Hey, South East Asia has been
dealing with Communist China since 1949. It should have fallen by now,
don't you think? Besides, don't you think of the threat from communist
Indochina? (I know I was terrified of a communist invasion from Vietnam
as a child.) Face it, the communists have enough problems of their own.

Look at the human rights abuses in East Timor and see if you can still say
the same thing.

- sulyn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean