HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slrf5@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Need information on entry system
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:50:54 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Apr13.192501.18220@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdg41088@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Pickaxe) writes:
> I'm not a regular on this newsgroup and I don't know how serious the discussion
> on this group is. I've got a problem related to the security of my fraternity.
> Our current system employs a front door lock with a five-button combination.
> This works fine as long as the only people who know the combination are members
> of the fraternity. What ends up happening is other people get the combo, either
> by seeing one of type it in or some guy will tell his girlfriend and then not
> soon thereafter everyone in her house will know our combo. It's no big secret
> that combinations are not secure, that's why I'm looking for alternatives.
> 
> We've had several break-ins during the night when most people are asleep.
> We have an alarm system but it's only used during breaks. I've considered going
> to a key lock system but the problem is that keys can be copied and if a key is
> lost then it would cost a lot of money to replace seventy keys and the lock
> pins too. 
> I've thought of a
> system that employs a card reader lock. I know that this would be ideal if the
> cost would allow it. We would distribute cards to all the members and each card
> would have a number stamped on it. We would keep track of the numbers and if
> one was lost then we would easily be able to reprogram all the cards.  I would
> appreciate if people could send me any information that they have on this type
> of system such as models, cost, and suppliers.
> 
> Also, if you have an alternative to my method, then please let me know.  Please
> mail replies directly.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -- 
> +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
> | Joe Gross          |  Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering |
> | pickaxe@uiuc.edu   |  University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign        |
> +--------------------+----------------------------------------------------+


There are many different things you can do, here are a couple.

1:	There are many Key type systems that have secured keys.  ASSA is one
brand that is that way.  Keys can not be copied without an identification card
give at the time of purchase.  Locksmiths who sell these types of systems are
under contract not to copy keys without proper verification.  Our university
has gone to this system in many buildings and it gives 'Total Key Control'. 
there are no unauthorized keys and this system is unpickable.

2:	The electronic combination locks are very good also.  You do not have
to deal with lost or stolen keys, and the combinations are easily changed.
If needed once a quarter or even once a month.  I think this would be your best
bet.
From: rjlewis@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu (Richard J. Lewis, Jr - Hacker@Large)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: simple question: Drilling
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:46:47 GMT
Organization: Miami University, Hamilton campus

Hi,
  I'm very new in this interest, so bear with me.  Where would you drill in 
a safe to get in it?  How does this work?

  Thanks,
  - Rich
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Dye marker fire alarms?
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:18:15 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <ranck.60@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu> ranck@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) writes:
>   In the case of bank cash bags with dye markers the dye is used to mark
>the contents not the perp.  Can't spend marked money too easily.

The "blister packs" do a rather thorough job of making the money unusable.
They also have some interesting side effects if the money is hidden in
the thief's trousers (which has happened more than once).

ObLockPickQuestion: are the dye packs attached to clothing items in major
department stores unlocked mechanically?  I heard somewhere that they use
compressed air to remove them (which would make them difficult to pick).

> * Bill Ranck                  DoD #0496           RANCK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU *

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: POSTING FROM  FBI.GOV
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 03:43:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.194937.27059@u.washington.edu>, birnbaum@math.washington.edu (Z.W. Birnbaum) writes:
>
>	A while ago when somebody posted something
>	which looked like coming from the domain   fbi.gov
>	margolis@watson.ibm.com  said something like
>	it could be easy to detect who was using a fake
>	identity to post news.
>	I disagree, it is quite easy to fake the sender
>	of news or mail in an untraceable way. 
>	One has to connect to the correct
>	port of a machine,  and to do that  one does NOT 
>	need an account  in any machine.   You just need
>	to use a terminal connected to a local network
>	and telnet the news port or mail port of  a machine
>	in the local network or if the server allows it
>	anywhere in the world, and give to this remote
>	machine the fake addresses for sender.
>	I have seen this work.

The effectiveness, of course, depends greatly on what sort of logging is in
effect on both the host the forger is logged in on and the news server he
contacts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Sesame Padlocks
Date: 14 Apr 92 06:00:45 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Organization: The Village Waterbed
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

In  <1992Apr13.235238.11062@husc3.harvard.edu>  bthomps@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Ben Thompson) writes:
>
>      I am the proud owner of a Sesame padlock (four dials,
> 0-9, set in the bottom of the lock body), the combination of
> which was forgotten years ago. I understand that the theory of
> opening one of these is to insert a piece of very thin sheet metal
> (pardon the kindergarten terminology) into the gap between a dial
> and its rectangular slot to feel for the flat spot on the inner
> wheel, which should tell me the number for that dial.
>
>      1) does anyone know of any other non-destructive methods?

One way that works for me if the lock is old enough that the shackle doesn't
always pop up when you press it down is to get it to stay down, then hold it
with the rivet against your palm and slam it against the wall.  (The lock,
not your hand.  :-)  Once you have the lock open, you can insert a change
tool (or appropriately-sized nail) into the hole and play with the dials to
"feel" the combination.

You can also drill out the rivet, then replace it, or drill two tiny (3/32)
holes between the outer pairs of wheels, look through to see where the flats
are, add 7 to each digit when the flats are straight across when you look
into the hole, then seal up the holes.  (I don't know if you consider
drilling non-destructive.)

I find there are two ways to open a lock - the non-destructive way, and the
educational way.  :-)

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: The National Locksmith - Magazine
Originator: hes@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:41:41 GMT

  There are a couple of magazines serving locksmiths and the
industry.  I've read the Locksmith Ledger and The National Locksmith
and they both have lots of information and ads.  In my experience
both are better on mechanical stuff than on the electronics, but
that also reflects the average locksmith.  I somewhat prefer
the Locksmith Ledger, but I just got some info on the National 
Locksmith in the mail and will post about it.  If you are 
interested in subscribing, their address is:

The National Locksmith
1533 Burgundy Parkway
Streamwood, IL  60107
708 837 2044

--henry schaffer  n c state univ

P.S. No - I don't know the subscription rate.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Novice questions.
Organization: Chaos
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:25:52 GMT


Can someone answer this probable FAQ?

Where does a non-law-enforcement/non-locksmith type person get a set of
lockpicking tools?

I read about 300 past articles (I was on duty at the lab from 12mid-8am :-)
and I found no information.


ADVthanksANCE
-- 
Michael A. Atkinson | "Why do bad things happen to good people?" I hear you 
asbestos@nwu.edu    |  cry, to which I say, "SHUT THE HELL UP!" - D.S. Cahr

      A Libertarian, an NRA member, and a firearms owner.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Sesame Padlocks
From: bthomps@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Ben Thompson)
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:52:37 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

	I am the proud owner of a Sesame padlock (four dials,
0-9, set in the bottom of the lock body), the combination of
which was forgotten years ago. I understand that the theory of
opening one of these is to insert a piece of very thin sheet metal
(pardon the kindergarten terminology) into the gap between a dial
and its rectangular slot to feel for the flat spot on the inner
wheel, which should tell me the number for that dial.

	1) does anyone know of any other non-destructive methods?

	2) where can I get good shim stock (if that's the right phrase).

----

Ben Thompson

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Re: Master Keys
Keywords: master keys
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:24:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.203205.29374@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
>Eron.Cohen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eron Cohen) writes:
>>I once heard that you can use tape on a dollar bill and yank it back out
>>when it goes into the soda machine, is this true?
>*----
>Yup.  The question is why anybody would want a used piece of tape.
>--

--- Local kid was just 
arrested for using a tricked out quarter (superglued a piece of thread
to it) to get many plays on a popular arcade game at a pizza parlor ..

He bitched that he wasn't stealing anything (hah) just 
using the machine.  Seems that ethics is a dying art-form
RIchard

-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 942 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: simple question: Drilling
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Apr10.064647.561@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu>  rjlewis@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu (Richard J. Lewis, Jr - Hacker@Large) writes:
> Hi,
>   I'm very new in this interest, so bear with me.  Where would you drill in
> a safe to get in it?  How does this work?

It varies by model.  A safe guide will give drilling locations for the
various safes.

Note that any decent safe will have a relocking device, so any attempt at
forcible entry by punching out the spindle will simply make it impossible
to open the safe without drilling.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:47:46 CST
From:         Aack! <C09615SJ@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Novice questions, etc
Newsgroups:   alt.locksmithing

>
>In article <29e9c896@babyoil.ftp.com>, hobbit@babyoil.ftp.com (*Hobbit*) says:
>I assume your dead-bolt question deals with picking the lock itself, not
>trying
>to throw the bolt once you've got it picked?
>
>_H*

I wasn't aware that there was a difference.  Isn't the bolt controlled by
the cylinder mechanism?

                                         Jon
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: locicero-joe@CS.YALE.EDU (Joe LoCicero)
Subject: Re: O.K...back to lockpicking.
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:07:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.235030.4877@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.IBM.com writes:
>It would really help if you could supply a brand name, either from the
>face of the cylinder or from the bow of the key (if an original; if a
>copy then the identifying letters &/ornumbers as well).
>
>Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)

As a student at Yale, I can attest to the fact that room locks are BEST,
key master J.  Gate locks around campus are key master E (I guess security
isn't as important), and places that need to be "extremely secure" are 
on a BEST DD key master.  (Which I had never seen before coming here.)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Joe LoCicero                        locicero-joe@minerva.cs.yale.edu  -
-Why does the porridge bird lay his egg in the air?                    -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: eengelke@sail.uwaterloo.ca (Erick Engelke)
Subject: Re: POSTING FROM  FBI.GOV
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:46:49 GMT

 birnbaum@math.washington.edu (Z.W. Birnbaum) writes:
>	A while ago when somebody posted something
>	which looked like coming from the domain   fbi.gov
>	margolis@watson.ibm.com  said something like
>	it could be easy to detect who was using a fake
>	identity to post news.

yep.

>	I disagree, it is quite easy to fake the sender
>	of news or mail in an untraceable way. 
>	One has to connect to the correct
>	port of a machine,  and to do that  one does NOT 
>	need an account  in any machine.   You just need
>	to use a terminal connected to a local network
>	and telnet the news port or mail port of  a machine
>	in the local network or if the server allows it
>	anywhere in the world, and give to this remote
>	machine the fake addresses for sender.
>	I have seen this work.
>

You've got the right idea, but missed some of the details.  Some systems
keep logs of all articles submitted, ie. they record the sending IP number
and often the port number.  If you sent it from your private DOS or UNIX
box the IP number can be traced back to your machine and you have to answer
to the geek guards.  If it is a multiuser machine, the port number for the
TCP connection can often be traced back to an individual id. 

I've had to do this sort of sleuthing a few times to punish
over-enthusiastic MUD players and jerks who placed GIF files in other
peoples' anonymous systems.  Personally I couldn't care less, but
some people don't do things in moderation.  The systems are not foolproof 
since many users have bad passwords and their accounts are fair game, but 
we often catch the offenders.  

BTW, students should realize that their school may consider it an academic 
offence to break into computer accounts since you may be using that 
knowledge to cheat or you may be infringing on privacy.  Check your
state and federal laws.  In Canada, any space which a person may 
reasonably assume is private (such as computer accounts, lockers,
etc.) bears charges for the infiltrator - check the criminal code.

Now let's get back to locks !!!!

Erick
-- 
Erick Engelke					  Engineering Computing
						 University of Waterloo
Waterloo TCP Architect		 erick@development.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Sesame Padlocks
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:52:47 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr13.235238.11062@husc3.harvard.edu> bthomps@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Ben Thompson) writes:
>
>	I am the proud owner of a Sesame padlock (four dials,
>0-9, set in the bottom of the lock body), the combination of
>which was forgotten years ago.
[...]
>	1) does anyone know of any other non-destructive methods?

I brute-forced a 3-dial version in about 10 minutes (the number was in the
600 range).  If you figure one combo per second you're looking at about 2
hours 45 minutes to just crank through it.  Do it while watching TV some night.

Of course, that won't give you any lockpicking practice.

>Ben Thompson

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: otto@palikka.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: pop cans
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:06:52 GMT
	<CSUYX.92Apr4172900@lily.warwick.ac.uk> <ctmj3_m.allyn@netcom.com>
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company

In article <ctmj3_m.allyn@netcom.com> allyn@netcom.com (Mark Allyn) writes:
   All this about stealing pop from a machine - - why bother stealing that
   stuff? That stuff is bad for you. It's nothing but sugar and other goodies
   that disolve teeth and pennies. Wasn't there something a while ago about
   a can of coke being able to disolve a penny??

This is alt.locksmithing, not alt.folklore.urban nor alt.food.cocacola nor
alt.stupidity -- go and post somewhere else.
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: The National Locksmith - Magazine
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:27:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr9.160956.1578@cubetech.com> andrew@cubetech.com writes:
> ...
>How hard is it to crank out a business card on a laser printer?

  I suspect that it is extremely hard for people who are incapable
of going to K-Mart, buying a $9 deadbolt lock, and taking the entire
thing apart (using specialized tools like screwdrivers) to see how
a pin tumbler lock works.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: mccaslan@duncan.cs.utk.edu (a dancing marSUPial)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Novice questions.
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:05:07
Organization: /blue/homes/mccaslan/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
In-reply-to: C09615SJ@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU's message of 13 Apr 92 22:37:34 GMT


well, i'm a beginner too, but my experience with WD40 is baaaaad.
WD40, although a lubricant, is liquid and can, due to some physics notion of
surface tension and cohesion or some such, gum up a lock something fierce..
actually, it was i who suggested it offhand to a friend who was having troubles
with her dorm lock, and well, it didn't work.  i've heard since that graphite
is the best idea for lubricating locks.

second, yes, those bent pieces of steel are tension wrenches, sounds like really
simple ones.  what i think the other poster was referring to was using .20
piano wire or whatever AS the handle to a tension wrench, mebbe looped once,
so that you cannot ever put too much tension on the cylinder.
or was that number 2.0 piano wire..whutever :)

and quickly on the subject of Best locks, i was under the impression that
all Best locks (at least those here) had a warded bit at the end of the lock
that kept even all the other pins from being picked...meaning another
"pin"..  mebbe that's just here.   but anyhow, if such a thing is, then
what would be the best way to fix up a tension wrench to accomodate
picking that last "pin"?  

anyhow, there were many more questions that i had but they all flew from my head 
just moments ago.
later on
don
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 13:37:00 CDT
From: <U56932@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Bathroom door locks

I was downtown leaving a client's office when I decided to stop by the
restroom on the floor. When I got there, there was this teardrop-shaped
Simplex lock on the door! It had six pushbuttons arranged in a circle
numbered I through VI. There was also a lever near the top of the lock,
obviously to open the lock. Quite impressive looking, but frustrating.
Anyway, from what I remembered from the earlier string of simplex posts
the combinations could consist of any number of single and multiple buttons
pressed at the same time. What I'd like to know a little more about is
how they exactly work, and if there was any method used by locksmiths when
trying to open them? I noticed that by turning the lever and pressing some
of the buttons at the same time I felt some kind of tension in the lock,
but I didn't notice much else. Does anybody have any kind of experience
with Simplex locks?


Chris u56932@uicvm.uic.edu
"Left-handers are the only ones in their right minds..."

p.s. Rather than stand around plugging in the thousands of possible
     permutations, I held it til I got home... :)
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: The second step (Was: Re: The National Locksmith - Magazine)
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:28:23 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@cubetech.com

In article <1992Apr13.015946.8575@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E.  
Schaffer) writes:
>  Filing cabinets
>  are not as easy to pick, but are pickable and also can be opened by
>  pushing a flexible plastic ruler past the sliding drawer - carefully
>  inspect some working cabinets to see what I'm talking about.

You have got to be kidding.  Filing cabinets always have extraordinarily cheap  
disk-tumbler locks.  Picking them is a joke.  Usually just inserting the pick  
is enough to open them...sometimes you actually have to rake _once_ to do  
it...for those extra-stubborn ones (where they might actually have a decent  
disk-tumbler lock) you might have rake two or three times....  I have never  
seen a filing cabinet that had a good lock on it.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern            |  "listen: there's a hell of a good universe
Cube Technologies, Inc.       |   next door; let's go." --- e.e. cummings
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Pick Guns
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 18:18:23 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Do the pick guns and electronic picks actually work? and do they require
knowledge of the locks? Just seems unlikely, as if they did, theifs would
have more of them and i would have heard more about...

dan cohn, N0IHA 			Dcohn@Kuhub.CC.Ukans.Edu

---------------------------Response----------------------------------

They do exist.  Majestic makes one with a lifetime (against spring breakage)
guarantee.  Gun picks work, but as with real picks, they take practice.  In
my experience, the best way I have found to pick a lock is with a heavy duty
tension wrench, and a hook pick.  When I serviced lockouts, I'd use the gun
pick first.  If it didn't work, then I'd use the hook method.

Electronic picks?  Never used one, never needed to.   Besides, they are quite
pricey.  I think they were made for novice locksmiths who are just entering
into the field and don't have anything better to do with their money.

Chris