Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: A Better Idea
From: <MAH76X@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:48:02 EST
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

In article <1993Jan8.230126.2578@ptdcs2.intel.com>, kstewart@ptdcs2.intel.com
(Kent Stewart) says:
>
>Have you already forgotten your unprovoked hate campaign against the
>members of a private mailing list that was pretty much leaving r.m.gd
>alone?  You and Steve had people such as Max--who had *no* first hand
>knowledge of the truth--publicly equating people such as myself with Nazis,

I didn't "HAVE people such as....".  I explained initially what the wheel
was, showed him a few rounds, etc.  You accuse me of starting a 'unprovoked
hate campaign'.  What happened in actuality was that was that somebody on
the wheel told one of my friends that I know where everybody is going to.
When I joined the wheel, I was told how  secret the thing was.  Yet I guess
I was supposed to lie and tell the person Oh no, I don't know what they
were talking about?  That sounds damned provoked to me.

As far as folks not having first hand knowledge of the truth, we CAN
fix that, can't we?  I have all the wheel rounds from the time I was
there.  We could set up a FTP sight and allow folks freedom to gain
first hand knowledge.

>fer crying out loud.  In a very short span of time you managed to generate
>*far* more nastiness directed at us than we were being accused of. Far
>more.

BULLSHIT.  You folks generated more nastiness.  You created your little
mailing list, which from day one on there I read was WAY better than
bignet.  When large contributers of r.m.gd got on, they left the net.
That to me sounds like you stole the future contributions of those
folks from the net.  Sure, some of the wheelies still post here.  But
the larger amount of folks just stopped.  This is a fact, not my opinion.
I pointed it out.  I pointed out the truth.

>And what was the point? What was gained? What was the net contribution
>to the enjoyment of people who read this group?  Was this the good karma

The point was, that we had read all these pathetic goodbye notes from
long.time.net.folks telling us how much shit our place was, and that they
were leaving.  Then I find that all these folks have banded together
and sat in their secret and special little place stating how great they
are and how shitty bignet is.  They took from us when the going was good
but when the going got tough they left.

>you're asking wharfie to display?  How do you dare, Joe?  Don't you have
>any mirrors in your house?

I have never used the word karma.  I asked Lou to try to be a little nicer
to the net.folks around here.  "Don't I have mirrors?"  What I did back in
the wheelie saga was point out to the net.folks "Where have all the people
gone".  You know what I was against there, I've made that public.  I spoke
about the things I didn't like there, and a large group of people here also
didn't like those things.  Yet wheelies put the blame of this disliking
thier attitudes on me.  I didn't create their attitudes, I pointed them
out.

>Wharfie has a quick fuse, and sometimes sees black and white in situations
>where I see lots and lots of greys, but as far as I've been able to get to
>know him over the years, he seems to be a pretty honest guy. Opinionated,
>yes. Devious, no.  He may have no qualms about saying he thinks someone
>is an asshole, but I seriously doubt if he would spread lies about people,
>or encourage others to do so.

Are you accusing me of spreading lies about your special group?  If so,
please, make your accusations public and specific.  We'll discuss it,
and if it turns out that I have done this, I'll offer a public apology.
I consider myself an honest man.  I try not to go to bed with no lies,
and I awake with none.

>So I think that telling him to clean up his act--while folks like Steve,
>and yourself, and andrejko, and "Joseph Hack", and everybody else that's
>anxious to join a public lynching of someone they don't even know over
>alleged deeds they know nothing about...while this whole cast of diverse
>and caustic charcaters does whatever the fuck they please--is spurious,
>absurd and hypocritical.

You see, thats the reality of it all.  You folks won't let me make the
wheel rounds public that I've got lying around.  You never allowed me to
create a posting quoting some of the more 'choice' reading material I was
subject to in my short stay there.  Up to this point in time, I've pretty
much kept them private.  You accuse me and Steve and others of doing
whatever the fuck we please, but during my time on the wheel, it looked
to me like a bunch of old net.heads doing exactly that.

>Sure, I'm all in favor of a kinder, gentler usenet.  But I also remember
>very clearly who started the last shitstorm. It wasn't Wharf Rat. Nor was
>it myself.  So just who are the good karma police, eh?

That's the bullshit statment of last year Bongo.  I pointed out the way
the wheel was.  Sure, I concentrated on the bad things that went on there
and there were some nice things.  I pointed out the folks who professed here
a life of non-prejuduice, yet I found living a life of prejuduice against
net.heads on the wheel.  And wheelies have placed the entire blame for
net.heads not liking this attitude which they held on me.  When I was there
the wheel was already a year old.  You could have removed that prejuduice
from there by then if it bothered you.  But it mustn't have bothered you
as it went by as Standard Operating Proceedure.  Then wheelie folks point
their fingers at me and again push the blame on me for not fixing it.  I
left instead of trying to fix it.  I've been your scapegoat.

Had I to do it the same way again, I would.  You want me to shut up about
the subject, then you shut up about the subject.  But if you point your
finger at me, or other net.folks to vent the blame and I'm going to tell
my point of view.  And I'll do it til the day I die.  It's you're call,
I'll play ball with you if you want.  Styfle me in you own private forum,
you're not going to do it here.

Joe Doheny