HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: catapcnl@Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:29:36 GMT


In article <1992Jul26.224005.26066@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>  
mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
:In <1992Jul26.194630.13666@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU  
JEFFREY) writes:
:>I agree on your 286 comparisons, but according to the ads, they indicated
:>that the 030-16Mhz was comparable to a 386SX20 running windows 3.0.
:>(lets see, LANDMARKS says 16 Mhz for this AT286-12, and then 28Mhz for
:> this 386SX20)
:
:Well, that is a problem if one relies on the LANDMARK benchmark. This test
:does largely show the internal speed of a processor (by timing lots
:of integer multiplications) and the results aren't affected that much
:by the bottleneck of the 16bit data bus.
:
:Of course you could cripple the 68020/68030 with 16bit memory but any
:useful 68030 accelerator for the Amiga (or the A3000/16) uses 32bit
:memory.
:
:Regards,
:-- 
:Michael van Elst

68000-based machines have been incorrectly compared to Intel 8086/88's *too  
many times*, and for that matter to the 286.  The 68000 was designed to begin  
with as a predecessor to the 020/030/040, whereas the 8088 was *never* designed  
to work as a subset of a true 32-bit processor (like the 386).  This cripples  
that later Intel machines (backward compatability with the 286 and 8086/88),  
but does not hurt the later Motorolas as much (except for the idiots that were  
using 24-bit addressing against guidelines).  As a matter of fact, if IBM had  
never built an 8088-based PC, the whole world would be better off  
processor-wise.
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to  
teenage boys."
     - P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"
From: smcgradyj@cc.curtin.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:51:33 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Curtin University of Technology

In article <1992Jul28.043842.17143@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) writes:
> This is typed from the _AMIGA news_ newspaper, volume 1 no. 7.
> 
> 			The A4000
> 		The Scoop on Commodore's Newest!
> 			 by Anon
> 
> I've been chomping at the bit to speak out and right now I just don't care
> about the non-disclosure agreement.  We have been beta-testing the A4000 and
> another model which may be called the A1000 Classic, A800, or possibly some
> other name.  Both are based on the AA chipset and should be able to hold their
> own against other machines on the market, but there are still a few areas where
> they are lacking.
> 
[stuff deleted]

Skip Sauls really should start charging royalties for use of this article. 
Its been bouncing around this group for months!

Regards

Jim
From: rogue@cellar.org (Rachel McGregor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: 19 Jul 92 08:17:49 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

thad@btr.btr.com writes:

> The premiere newspaper of Silicon Valley just dedicated half a page to the
> following two items.  From the San Jose Mercury-News' COMPUTING section,
> Sunday, July 12, 1992, page 4F:
> 
> -------------------- [ ITEM 1, SIDEBAR ]
> 
> AMIGA, from Commodore Business Machines, Inc., 1200 Wilson Drive, Westchester
> PA 19380.  (800) 662-6442
> 
> SUMMARY: The Amiga once had a great future, with special chips for slick
> handling of graphics, video and sound and basic software more powerful than o
> the Mac or PC.  But obsolete hardware, few new programs and malignant neglect
> from the parent company have killed the Amiga.  Users already hooked on it ca
> stay for some years (though with increasing envy of PC and Mac owners), and
> anyone interested in digital video will love the Amiga-based Video Toaster fr
> NewTek.  But all others should avoid the Amiga.
> 
This is probably one of the great half-truths of journalism.  The parental
neglect is absolutely true.  The core chipset is no longer revolutionary,
but still competitive.  I've been trying for years to explain the lack of
major developers and sophisticated productivity software in the Amiga market
for years with little success.

However, I also know how important boosterism is to local newspapers, even
at the Mercury News, which is one of the three best papers in California. 
An "imminent death of Commodore predicted" column could be a great way to
put off sales of Commodore machines - a company who has no offices in
Silicon Valley - in favor of the locals.


> 
> -------------------- [ ITEM 2, ARTICLE ]
<<deleted>>
           
   Rachel McGregor (rogue@cellar.org) - research contractor, modem junkie
-::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-
"It's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, dipped in a rich, chocolatey coating!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Amiga AA chipset... inside info?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:51:29 GMT

My hacker friend told me the following yesterday.

1.  There will be some sort of adapter board to make the current machines
able to run the AA chipset.

2.  There is a rumor about a 2 meg Agnus that allows you to get 2 meg of
memory without the DKB megachip...

3.  The version of OS 3 he's seen (kickstart 39.101) needs an '020 or 
better to run... which suggest that the next generation of low end 
computers is going to be minumum '030.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:26:18 GMT

dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>	What I meant was that I have more fun using my Amiga in general than 
>using any UNIX workstation. The Amiga has more interesting features that the
>UNIX machines don't. Such as multiple OSes multitasking at the same time,
>and multiple screens. Plus, many UNIX programs are very old and outdated.
>I hate using JOVE on the workstations. And I hate the HP mice too.

Yeah, the mice are a pain, and I do not like the keyboards much--nice
monitors, though.  I still have not seen any good X applications, but
I have not searched thoroughly.  I am interested in things like DTP and
image processing packages.

The HP-VUE (Visual User Environment) simulates multiple screens, but they
are not nearly as nice as the Amiga's screens.

-- Gerald
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:50:41 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <uFDioB6w165w@bluemoon.rn.com>, troy@bluemoon.rn.com (Troy Fridley) writes:
> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
> 
> The problem here is that most MS-DOSers,OS/2ers, ect. Have NEVER seen 
> Performance! Point-n-FACT!

I wouldn't be too sure of that.  I've never seen an Amiga in full use (other
than demos in a computer store), but I have seen a number of other powerful
systems.  For example, I have access to an SGI Indigo Elan and an HP 720
at work.  I think both of them qualify as "performance" machines.  I suspect
that any number of MS-DOSers have similar experiences.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:06:37 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <151og6INN6lp@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> jbgoldsm@cats.ucsc.edu (Joshua B Goldsmith) writes:
>
>I saw it too, and that was here on the opposite side of the US way out
>in California.  Amazing, I wish I recorded it...  That is the first TV
>advertisement that I have EVER seen for an Amiga.  It wasn't a bad commercial
>either though it could have given more details about the CDTV itself...
>Finally some advertising...

   Commodore has been running ads on the Preview Guide for at least the last
3 to 4 years. Why? Preview Guide equipment consists of... Amigas. (This is
known because many people have turned on the television set only to find a
Guru flashing at them. I kid you not.) 
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jasonf@wayfarer.EBay.Sun.COM (Jason Freund)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Newspaper article
Date: 29 Jul 1992 23:34:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wayfarer.ebay.sun.com

I read somewhere (in another group) that someone posted a transcript of 
the obituary by ?Robinson? that was published in the SJ Mercury News
about the decline of the Amiga or something.  

Could someone please post the original article or email it to me.  I'm an
Amiga advocate and aparrently this article stirred up a lot of trouble and I 
still haven't read it.

thanks,
--------------------------------Summer Address------------------///----------
Jason Freund           jasonf@wayfarer.EBay.Sun.COM            ///
690 Erie Dr.           408-276-???? (Work)                 \\\///     
Sunnyvale, CA  94087   408-732-0421 (Home)                  \XX/ Amiga 3000 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Proposal: comp.sys.amiga.barrett
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:05:22 GMT

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:

>In article <50619@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@gleep.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>>	There are at least *four* people named "barrett" who post in the
>>Amiga groups, and who-knows-how-many "barretts" just reading.  Believe it or
>>not, we are all individuals.  So I vote NO WAY on this newsgroup name. :-)
>>
>>	Now, if you wanted to form a comp.sys.amiga.BLAZEMONGER newsgroup, I
>>might be interested. :-)
>>
>>                                                        Dan

>Dan makes an important point;  remember to _fine tune_ those kill files;
>otherwise you could be accidently failing to read interesting and
>useful posts :-)

Verily, deleted all the posters whose first name is DAN would be a
TERRIBLE loss.

>		andy
>-- 
>andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

>"Programming is 5% theory and 95% trivia."

>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PeeCees are kludge after kludge after kludge. What total shit.
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:16:11 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA



>>  Woah! It looks like little Danny is getting a bit angry... Danny comes   
>>into *our* Amiga section thinking he's spouting the gospel, trying to      
>>exalt the peecee. Look, if you don't like the way things go in *our*       
>>group (read: *Amiga* advo) then please do leave, otherwise keep your       
>>hands to yourself, pal. You're in someone else's house, not the other      
>>way around. Please act accordingly.                                        
                                                                             
>OK John, then maybe this'll do.  I'm an Amiga user, so in your view, I'm in 
>"my" group, right?  OK, so shut the hell up.  You're getting as annoyning as
>Marc Barrett, and starting to remind me of Thomas Hill (ala ST basher).     
                                                                             
>Tony Poole                                                                  
                                                                             
Oh! Dan Stephenson's gonna eat this one up!                                  
                                                                             
btw, I don't recall asking for your opinion                                  

UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amigaworld SUCKS!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:59:18 GMT

Wow, competition for Jeff Young... :)

Thom
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:44:00 GMT

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
: Not intuitive to me, though.  I launched the same app 8 times by accident
: on a 50MHz 486 machine the other day.  Double-click on icon - wait -
: must have failed so try again...  Finally all 8 incarnations came up...

You had your system setup wrong.  The installed default of clicking on an
Icon is bring up original.

: Jerry - the Amiga OS has had the SAME potential you describe (i.e. 32 bit apps)
: for almost 8 years and look where that has gotten us Amiga users.  Not very
: far, in other words.  If people "learned" potential, the Amiga would have
: sold 50 Million machines by now - especially the A3000.

Ah, but 32-bit apps on the PC is a different story.  Businesses have PCs
not Amigas.  32-bit computing is so important now, Microsoft, the largest
software firm in the PC World is scrambling to get 32-bit apps in the
works.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:50:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <torrie.711787440@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun) writes:
>
>>How long do most people on a limited budget own their computers?  For me, a
>>lifetime of at least 5 years and preferably longer is necessary.  
>
>  I have a related question for you.  What do you do with your
>computer after the five years?  

If I own the computer for long enough, it doesn't matter much.  Sell it,
give it to a family member, it doesn't matter.  Amortize the cost over the
life of the machine and it's a much better deal than buying a car :-).

>  I'm the opposite of you.  I try to turn over my computer as often as
>possible (which usually ends up being every year or so).  Being at a
>university (which a lot of us are, yourself included it would seem), I
>can do this fairly well since I buy at an educational discount, and
>try and sell for not much less than that a year later.
[...]

Interesting strategy, I'll admit.  I for one couldn't stand the hassle
every year.  And it should only work well if the educational discount is
sufficiently generous.  Macs?

Maurice LeBrun    mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
Institute for Fusion Studies, University of Texas at Austin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:54:02 GMT

In article <33215@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:

[ ]
>
>Apple came out with a new Quadra this year.  Those, and the laptops, were
>reasonably interesting.  Things like LCs and Classics are just powered down
>rehashes of old Mac IIs.

I don't quite agree with this. The 33MHz Quadra is a fast Mac with nice
graphics running the same OS. The power dictates that its main OS should
be A/UX3.0, but few people have accepted Apple's Unix.
 
In fact, I feel Apple has pretty well given up on the high end and has
had to make the choice of becoming more of a consumer company. The
laptops are very nice, except for the weight and the ghosting on the 
lower end ones. The LC and ClassicII (and IIsi) probably indicate where
Apple is heading more than do the Quadra's. Unless something strange 
comes out of the IBM/Apple alliance, I doubt that Apple will even bother
entering into the Unix workstation world.
 
[ ]

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
From: mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:01:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <62872@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>
>For example, with an HP-9000/700 series "Snake", I was simply amazed at how
>fast that box is.  I mean F-A-S-T.  Except when one logs onto the console and
>fires up HP's version of X, HP-VUE.  Dog slow; so bad that with even four
>windows it took nearly 10 minutes to fill an ASCII screen with characters
>due to swapping, etc.  So I killed HP-VUE (I mean literally "rm" all the
>goddamned HP-VUE files off the disk, then brought up X11R5 from the sources
>at MIT (export.lcs.mit.edu) and now the machine is N-I-C-E with NO loss of
>functionality and, in fact, some new things, like scrollbars in the windows!
>And this is with HP-UX 8.07.
>...
>Conclusion: X11R5 is good whereas OpenWindows, HP-VUE, SGI Motif, etc. all suck
>dead bunnies through a straw.

Er, sounds like you had a *damn* limited sample for such a strong
conclusion. 

I have an HP 720 with 32MB RAM (maybe this was the problem) running HP-UX
8.07, HP-VUE, and it is N-I-C-E.  It is even driving two HP X-terminals;
the three of us will often have up to 30 xterms up and the system still
does fine.  NEVER any problems like the one you mention. 

I'm also intrigued by your claim of "NO loss of functionality" and
scrollbars comment.  What windows now have scrollbars that didn't before?
And what replacement for the multiple-screen capability of HP-VUE is in
X11R5? 

Maurice LeBrun    mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
Institute for Fusion Studies, University of Texas at Austin
From: simon@ivem.uucp (Simon Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 30 Jul 1992 19:49:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Jul30.182907.8556@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.160753.1545@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>>I bet most of these users will not go IBM compatible since they don't
>>like compatibles.  Instead, they will go Falcon 030 IF ATARI PROVES
>>they have changed.  They have to prove it by better marketing and support
>>and less costly mistakes.
>
>Ha!  You should do stand up!
>
>>>And it will be late. IMHO, Atari should forget about being a computer
>>>company and concentrate on home video gaming systems and portable
>>>data-management products. They seem to do an excellent job on those.
>>>The Lynx and Portfolio are fine products!
>>
>>They never invtented those.  They purchased this technology.
>
>>>Let's face it, the personal computer war is over. The PC compatible
>>>nuked the entire planet, the Mac survived in a mouse shaped bomb
>>>shelter, the Amiga just barely survived and has what is probably a
>>>terminal case of radiation poisoning, and Atari just up and died. (I love
>>>silly analogies. :^) The Falcon could be the greatest box ever made and
>>>it still probably wouldn't sell well, anyway (same but to a lesser
>>>degree with the A4000)
>
>>Small personal computers like Atari and Commodore still have niche
>>markets left.  The company that sees this will continue to be a strong
>>player in the personal computer industry for at least two-three years.

Has anyone ever considered that maybe...

Jack Tramiel actually still owns CBM?!!?

Maybe that's why both companies stink!

-- 
*   Simon Lee              *   Microscopy and Imaging Resource          *
*   simon@ivem.ucsd.edu    *   Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
*   sulee@ucsd.edu         *   UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience      *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:12:24 GMT
Organization: private Amiga Site

In article <1992Jul26.191956.2642@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <bmccnnll.712171495@unix1.tcd.ie> bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell) writes:
>>In <1992Jul23.162026.7775@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>>>Or, an even more basic question: what is the ratio of Amigas
>>>with built-in SCSI controllers to Macintoshes with built-in SCSI controllers?
>>
>>Every single Mac has a built-in SCSI controller. Find yourself a GVP Combo
>>board or an A3000, and you've beaten the best Mac. We have DMA, they do not.
>>While a Mac is accessing the HD or network, you can forget about useable
>>multitasking.

>   That is a concern to far fewer people than you'd think.  Commodore seems to
>agree, as the only other Amiga besides the A3000 that has built-in hard drive
>capability -- the A600 -- uses a comparitively slow non-DMA IDE hard drive.
>Again, it is far better for most people to have a slow non-DMA SCSI included
>than to have no HD capability included at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh Marc, what a silly answer! What about all those little high-priced
Macintoshes Apple sold in the past, without internal harddisks?
A computer without a hardddisk/controller gives you the opportunity
to choose from what suit your needs best.

Leave the silly A600 aside!

Regards,
	Michael

--
- Michael Grom -gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de-FRG 6000 Frankfurt 60__
________________ (voice:)+49 69 44 12 87      Roederbergweg 136_  ///gib DOS
...is clearly a |____________________________________________ \\\///   keine
     need for emotional decontamination and mental correction| \XX/ CHANCE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy