HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 23:35:56 -0600
From:         "(Bradford A. Morgan)" <bmorgan@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Community of learners

Our state science and engineering college is located in the Black Hills of
South Dakota, not far from Mount Rushmore and the Big Horn mountain range of
Wyoming.  We have three required writing courses--freshman composition and
two technical communications courses (one at the sophomore level and the
other in the upper division).  During the early 1980s we had to convince
many reluctant faculty outside our discipline that word processing was a
useful tool in the teaching of writing.  We faced a similar challenge when
desktop publishing became prominent later in the 1980s.

Now that we're in our second semester of using an Internet-based approach
in our advanced technical communications course, it's becoming apparent that
we'll have to deal with this same opposition.  Michael Day and I now have
125 students in five sections, using the Internet for various  assignments
involving network writing and information research of databases and ftp
sites.  An LCD projection panel allows live student tutorials of database
and electronic archive findings.  Student writing is group edited directly
from the Internet.  And the questions we're getting are long since familiar:
what do the Internet and Unix have to do with writing?  Is teaching the
Internet an end in itself or a means to something?  What's wrong with the
way writing has been taught all along?  These are important questions, to
be sure, and we grow stronger when we have to justify ourselves, even under
hostile circumstances.

Because the majority of engineering and science faculty aren't yet connected
to the Internet at our college, or are struggling with the basics, we're
finding it challenging indeed to explain ourselves in the give-and-take
quickness of daily faculty encounters, given the need to educate on a
variety of fronts.  Even so, our efforts might have gone unnoticed had not a
hacker (traced to our Internet computer) launched a series of recent assaults
on several other systems around the country.  Now many of the computer-leery
engineering and science faculty, not sure what it's all about, are hinting
that the Internet-based writing sections have probably released some form
of Frankenstein and should be brought under control.  Yes, these are the joys
that keep English professors from becoming too bored.   It would seem that
most writing programs have the potential for similar experiences.  Any
thoughts, megabunnies?

Bradford Morgan, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
bmorgan@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:26:00 MST
From:         Doyle Burke <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Subject:      Community of Teachers?

The sense of "community" among English faculty who use computers
is real, and students also share in it.

Three of us began teaching composition in a computer lab three
years ago, and we met constantly to design course
assignments, technology guidelines, etc.  We answered questions
of students from one another's sections during our lab hours and
encouraged students to approach all of us for help.

Since then, other faculty have joined us.  Some have backed away,
failing, I think, to enjoy the collaboration.  The rest have
continued to meet.

I suspect that students in the computer/composition classes have
a different attitutde toward freshman English in our sections
because many begin with a significant awareness that they need
help.

Learning the computer helps students  establish a relationship
with faculty.  A one-minute exchange that clears up a technology
frustration results in the student's having a greater
appreciation for the teacher.

That feeling carries over to composition instruction.  We offer
similar guidance as students write essays, and we encourage their
collaborating with other students to ask advice.

Ironically, rather than creating an impersonal atmosphere,
using computers has increased collaboration among faculty and
students alike.





Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College (AZ)
Burke@MC
From: LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Writer's Workbench?
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:19:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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MIME-version: 1.0
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Stephen Reid at Colorado State U and Joy Reid, now at U of Wyoming, used it a
lot--Steve did the original research that always gets quoted.  Don't know if
he/they still do and they're not on the list.  I can give you an e-address if
you widsh.
Liz Hamp-Lyons
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:20:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      class size

Lisa, at Texas Tech Basic Writing has a limit of 22, freshman
comp a limit of 25, advanced exposition 18, and the Tech Writing
courses 20.  Individual exigencies can affect a particular class.
Fred Kemp, Texas Tech
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:09:29 EST
From:         "(Mark Zamierowski)" <zamierow@SAGE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Request Info:English Dept Models

Whoooops.  Wrong address the first time out!  Atanyrate...
>
> Dear em-boogers:
>
> Call me... flatout nuts, but I need to start gathering information on
> possible, virtual, alternative and/or real-world English department
> organizational plans, and short of writing to a randomly sampled list
> of half of the colleges/universities in the country (for starters), I
> haven't a clue about how to go about this.  Any suggestions?
>
> I'm doing this research in order to get going on a proposal to
> eliminate the ten-area grid that controls course offerings, course
> scheduling, prelim areas, prelim content, plans of study, etc. in our
> English department at Purdue. The areas, if I remember correctly, are
> Medieval, Renaissance, 18th-, 19th-, 20th-century British, American
> pre-1865, American post-1865, Rhetoric, Lit Theory, and Linguistics; and
> literary studies are divvied up according to the traditional
> assortment of periods and great names.
>
> Near as I can tell right now, this let's-chuck-the-grid idea yields
> two incredibly large problems:  what sort of structure do you replace
> this grid with?  what other departmental structures (e.g., area
> committees if not the entire sucking committee structure) are also
> going to have to be rethought?
>
> Just one more qualification-- Please don't perceive this as another
> version of the RhetCompzilla vs Literatron feud.  I want no whiff of
> the divisive anywhere near this proposal. Basically, what I'm after is
> a different organizational plan for our literature program.
>
> Two, make that two qualifications-- At this point I am merely
> gathering information.  Purdue's English department has taken up the
> ten-area grid as an agenda item on various departmental committees,
> but no decisions to do anything about that grid have been made or even
> seriously entertained yet.  Also, I'm acting as President of the grad
> student organization here:  I want to have a proposal of some kind
> ready to go just in case the department's committment level keeps
> a-risin'.
>
> Sorry for the length of this request.  Please send e-mail or snail
> mail directly to me.  If any hue and cry for information shows up on
> the list, I'll be glad to forward any messages I get as long as I have
> the sender's approval.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark Zamierowski
> Department of English
> Heavilon Hall
> Purdue University
> West Lafayette, IN 47907
> --
>
> Mark Zamierowski   _.,-~'`^`'~*-,._    zamierow@sage.cc.purdue.edu
>
>
>
>


--

Mark Zamierowski   _.,-~'`^`'~*-,._    zamierow@sage.cc.purdue.edu
From: KALER@UKANVM.BITNET (Ellen Redding Kaler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: literary values
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:56:58 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              17 Sep 1992 12:22:00 EST from <01MJSCHRAMM@BSUVAX1>

Mary Jane:  Burke's rhetoric of motives considers DIVISION as well
as identification.  Perhaps they are a bit linear/sequential as well
as happening recursively?  Are we (departmentally, discipline-wise [ugh!])
asserting boundaries to establish division, when the ultimately higher,
more productive goal would be striving toward real identification??
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:52:11 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      permissions

 *** Reply to note of 10/13/92 18:57
 Fine with me, Ann.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:38:00 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Community of Teachers

Wes Chapman says, "I'd like to argue for some sympathy for the TA who resented
your presence.  ...it's hard for people who are just beginning to teach in a
computer classroom to figure out how to use it, and in some ways even harder
for new teachers, who don't feel very confident about what they're doing
anyway.  I say, let's educate these people, not condemn them."

Wes, you're absolutely right.  That message was not intended to go to MBU (or
anywhere else, for that matter).  It was one of the "spleen cleaners" that I
write periodically to vent that organ.  Then, having done so, I can rewrite in
a more tranquil emotional state and send the revision to an audience.  In this
case, I evidently saved the spleen cleaner and threw the revision away.  Sorry
to sound so malignant.

The Bombastic Bobby B.
Iowa State University
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X400-Trace: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; arrival Thu,
            8 Oct 92 23:42:29 -0400 action Relayed
P1-Message-ID: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; 921008234018162-MTASATURN
UA-Content-ID: 921008234018162-
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:42:29 -0400
From:         Margaret.Daisley@ENGLISH.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Reply to Re: Basic writing, again and again

Nick: Thanks for sharing all that stuff.  You referred to Marcia Curtis'
episode as "departmental lore" -- it's the first time I "heard" it!
P.S. As of this evening, I finally got my system re-connected, my communications
software working -- feel like I've been on another planet.
Margaret Daisley@the sameplace u r
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:31:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Jazz, Imitatio, Writing,
              and (?) Memory (1496 chars) (7)

Date:          Wed, 07 Oct 1992 17:06:08 EDT
From:          IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Dan Quigley (dquigley)
Message-id:    <1992Oct07.170608.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Jazz, Imitatio, Writing, and (?) Memory (1496 chars) (7)
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology
Local-Group:   composition.dig/2.c&c.local #31
Reply-to:      "Computers and Composition Digest" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Mer,

Your comments triggered some ideas I played around with while working on my
dissertation many moons ago, on the ties between Ben Jonson's dramatic
structure and Ciceronian Rhetorical structure.  One of the more interesting
connections I argued for, and one that seems to relate to your ideas on
improvisation and writing is the art of memory that was a part and parcel of
Classical works on Rhetoric (particularly the Ad Herennium and Cicero's De
Inventione and De Oratore.)  The overriding sense I got from these works was
the need for the public orator to be ready and well equiped to improvise,
either as a lawyer in a defense trial or as a senator arguing for or against a
motion in the senate.  More than just teaching the orator how to memorize
speeches (in fact most of these ars memorativa downplay word for word
memorization,) these classical rhetoricians wanted the public orator to be able

to quickly "imprint" as images all that they heard, and then be able to run
through the information and manipulate it at will as they responded,
improvising their speeches from both their own topics as well as from the
topics of their opponents in the debate.  In effect, they were to create a
mentally written script of pictures, much like a basic scale of notes within a
given key, and then alter, rearrange, recompose these elements as the situation

deemed appropriate.

I don't know if this helps, but, there it is....

Quig

------------------------------
From: DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: RE:Scheduling classes for computer composition\
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:44:22 GMT
Organization: University of Alabama English Dept.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Priority:     normal
X-mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).

Mike Hassett: I'm a grad student in Education at Alabama, but I've
had some experience working in our English Department labs as an
undergraduate. To simply answer your question, we have two rooms with
pcs, and most of the time we'd just schedule a class to come to the
lab during their regular meeting time, and close the rest of the lab
to the public. This works well *most* of the time, but we do/have
occassionally closed the entire lab to the public for a while to move
the freshmen in and out. It hassles the public, but I think I can
speak for some of my Alabama associates when I say we'd rather expose
as many freshmen to the lab rather than sacrafice them to the
"regular" visitors.
You might propmt my colleague, Don Langham to fill you in on more
details. I worked with him for over a year in the lab.
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Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:45:43 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Eric access
              10 Oct 1992 08:44:08 -0400 from <R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

I, too,  would appreciate a reposting of the ERIC online access
instructions.

David Roberts
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:59:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: "Creative Hearts" newsletter information (5)
              (*COMP.COMP*) (20)

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:54:22 GMT
From: lfh2k@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Laura Fortune Holderness)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: Re: "Creative Hearts" newsletter information (5) (*COMP.COMP*) (20)
Reply-to: comp.edu.composition <compos01%ulkyvx.bitnet@ucbvax.Berkeley.edu>

Dear "Creative Hearts" publishing group:
 I am very interested in your posting and would like to
know more, please. I am a first year graduate student in Elementary
Education at the Curry School of Education at the Univeristy of
Virginia. I would appreciate a more detailed account of what
your organization does and offers to subscribers. Also, would
you please respond as to the ways a subscription to your
"Creative Hearts" organization/publications might be of service
to an elementary -and more specifically, primary elementary-
school teacher.
 I should think that several of my fellow undergraduate classmates
from Stanford might be interested if the content is at all like
what the abstract suggests. Please respond with some more
specific information at your earliest convenience. My e-mail
address is lfh2k@Virginia.edu.
 Sincerely,
 L. Holderness

------------------------------
From: KALER@UKANVM.BITNET (Ellen Redding Kaler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Writer's Workbench?
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:47:54 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Who on the list still uses WWB?  What's the professional attitude about
the program?  I heard just yesterday that AT&T sold its WWB Rights to
the GRAMMATIK people?  Any verification of this?  With what consequences?

If you're using WORKBENCH with students, do you/how do you modify local standar
ds?  Do you establish different target goals for different classes or
different assignment types?  I'm interested in theories and practices.
Is this a dead issue area?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:05:24 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Community College people--read this!!

Are you planning to attend the League for Innovation in the Community
College meeting in Orlando on October 21st?  If so, I need megabunny
volunteers!

Would you like to moderate (host, support, guide, lead) an electronic
discussion for community college people?  All topics are welcome.  We want
to introduce community college people to the POWER of the NETWORK!

If you are interested, please respond to me privately.  While this is an
exciting professional activity, actually I am looking for network-savvy,
talkative folks who can help us establish a rich dialogue to entice
community college people into electronic communciation.  But you ahve to be
going to Orlando this month!

--Karen T. Schwalm              Department of English
--Glendale Community College    Maricopa Community College District
--6000 West Olive Avenue        Voice: (602) 435-3651  Bitnet: schwalm@gc
--Glendale, Arizona  85302      Internet: schwalm@gc.maricopa.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
From: maynor@Ra.MsState.Edu (Natalie Maynor)
Subject: Re: ERIC resources online
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:57:01 GMT

The numeric address for ACSNET.SYR.EDU is 128.230.1.21.
--
   Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: mday@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU ((Michael Day))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: class size
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:54:36 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

25 lower division, and 22 upper are our limits for writing classes
at SDSM&T.

Good luck, Lisa!

Michael Day
mday@silver.sdsmt.edu
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From: maynor@Ra.MsState.Edu (Natalie Maynor)
Subject: Re: ERIC resources online
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:43:49 GMT

Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU> writes:

>Natalie,
>I "telnetted" and got the following:
>   Port 'ACSNET.SYR.EDU' not numeric. Enter remote host (and optional port).
>Who's the remote host and what's the optional port?

Does your system always require numeric addresses?  I'll check on the
numeric address for ACSNET.SYR.EDU as soon as I get out of usenet and
will let you know.  That message was obviously coming from your machine.
The remote host would be the one you were trying to reach.  An optional
port would be something like the 3000 you put after madlab.sprl.umich.edu
when gettting the weather report.

>Thanks, with confidence that between you and Bernard you'll have the answer.

Bernardykins is snoozing on the couch now.  If I can't find the numeric
address for ACSNET, I'll wake him up and make him find it.
--
   Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:01:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Configuring PC LANs (12)

Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:36:08 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id:   <1992Oct10.153608.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Configuring PC LANs (12)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

>From: Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
>Message-id: <01GPRFDDXEO095MNBK@ulkyvx.bitnet>
>Subject: RE: Mandatory Laptops (*MBU*)

>Sorry, Rob, I forgot that IBM makes you pay separately for everything you need
>to run the computer, and I didn't realize that MS-DOS software has to be
>reconfigured for each different machine that hooks into the net.  Do you have
>to configure your server differently for each different machine? Or is it just
>the network software resident on each client that needs to be configured?  My
>question isn't clear, is it?  I mean, can you have a mix of computers on an
>MS-DOS LAN? If so, the user would configure the software for his/her own
>machine.

Not all PC LANs are this drastic, but ours has turned out to be.  I think
most require each machine to have various files (proprietary to the card
supplier) that convince the lone PC it can communicate with others.  Our LAN
is so pathetic that we can't even upgrade the OS because it just won't
recognize an OS above DOS 3.3.  Of course this implies the writers used some
of the "undocumented features" and probably points to why some of our
software never ran quite correctly.  Of course to update the OS (an OS which
all the new machines we have require for extended memory management) we not
only have to purchase all new software for each machine, but also new cards.
That's DOS for you.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "Do not search for the truth. Simply cease to cherish opinion"
                                           - Sengstan, Third Zen Patriarch

------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:00:54 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ERIC resources online
              8 Oct 1992 18:32:15 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Natalie:  can bitnet users get access to the ERIC online collection?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU