From: elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:07:49 CDT
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Mischievous Child (3 YO)
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <4310176@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, by poon@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Vivienne Poon):
> I thought about it sometimes when I got really irritated. But I hate the
> idea of a three year old under therapy. After all she didn't do anything
> outrageously wrong.

WHOA! Nobody said anything about "a three year old under therapy". You make
it sound as if you're talking something "punishing". What I'm talking about
mostly has a counsellor asking you questions of each of you, setting up
situations where the whole family has to interact (so that he can see
family dynamics in action), then a process of education in ways to get
things going as smoothly as can be expected given the personalities of each
of you and the developmental levels of your children. This process of
education should include elements of play-acting various situations to help
you learn new ways of handling those situations, and other such components.
We're not talking about reclining on a couch and talking about Oedipal
urges or some other such, uhm, "Freudian" type stuff. We're talking about
something very practical and straight-forward.

> We tried to comfort ourselves that maybe she is just
> a naughty little girl.

Urk. Repeat after me. "There's no such thing as a bad child, there are only
bad behaviors."

> The damaging label will do more harm and we don't want
> her to think there is wrong in her. So if we want to seek professional
> help, how do we start? Through her pediatrician?

A good pediatrician may be a start. All you have to say to him or her is
that you're having some child-rearing problems that need professional
intervention in the form of child-rearing classes and possible family
therapy, and he/she should be able to make a referral to an appropriate
psychologist or agency.

The Yellow Pages is also a good place to start. Look under "social services
agencies". If you're lucky, there may even be a one-stop service. For
example, in Lafayette, Louisiana, all you need to do is dial 232-HELP in
order to reach the Southwest Louisiana Education and Referral Center, which
is basically just a clearinghouse that listens to your problem, then tells
you who you need to talk to (in Lafayette, they'd probably send you to the
Family Tree Parenting Center for parenting classes and possibly family
counselling on a sliding scale if that doesn't do the trick). Here in
Houston there is no such service (as far as I know), but many agencies have
suggestive names (like "Depelchin Children's Center"), and if you happen to
call the wrong one, they can usually forward you to a more appropriate
agency. Note that these folks generally do charge for their services, but
do so on a sliding scale if you're worried about money.

Another place to look is in the "Lifestyle" or "Parenting" section of your
local newspaper. Here in Houston, there are many parenting classes offered
by local children's hospitals and such. Fees vary. Some may even be free.
There are also usually parenting support groups. A social services agency
as mentioned above can probably refer you to one in your area.

You can also look under "Psychologists" in the Yellow Pages. Then you'd
have to call and play 20-questions to find out if they were who you were
looking for. Beware, though: delay telling them what your problem is for as
long as possible, because there be sharks out there. Call them and ask
them, instead, what their specialty is, and what are typical problems that
they deal with, and what is their typical approach for dealing with such
problems. Remember, psychologists may sometimes play white-coated
"father figure" but they are businessmen, not gods, and you have every
right to question them. Because the section under "psychologists" is
usually so thick in the Yellow Pages, this is probably something you want
to do only after parenting classes and support groups and such. At such
parenting classes you'll probably meet many people in your area who have
had problems with their children, and some of them may be able to help you
find an appropriate professional. Referrals from random satisfied customers
are the best kind.

> Where do I go to have her diagnosed? Can I get professional advice without
> taking her along?

Your pediatrician usually is the one charged with diagnosing ADD or ADHD,
which is not a satisfactory situation since most pediatricians are not
adequately trained in how to make such a diagnosis. Thus I'd say delay
getting such a diagnosis until it becomes apparent that your child simply
can't cope without the label.

For emotional disturbances or learning disabilities, the special education
referral process is what must be gone through in order to qualify the child
for special education services. The way this works here in H.I.S.D.
(Houston Independent School District) is that you or a teacher makes a
referral to the school guidance counsellor or whoever else the principal
has appointed to be head of the campus referral committee. This referral
committee is then charged with detirmining whether a problem exists. If
they detirmine that a problem exists, they are then charged with specifying
interventions which can be accomplished in the regular classroom, such as,
e.g., a behavior management system based upon levels or tokens. They also
can recommend that the child be assigned with a different teacher. Once all
this has been done, once the child has been farmed out to every teacher in
the school and all have thrown up their hands and said "I quit! I can't
handle this kid!", then they can recommend that the child be assessed for
special education services. Federal law says that all handicapped children
are entitled to a free and appropriate education. Note, however, that there
have been school systems which refused to assess students. For example, the
Acadia Parish School System in Crowley, Louisiana, currently is being sued
because children diagnosed with speech handicaps have not been assessed and
given appropriate education (their explanation was that they could not
afford to hire qualified speech therapists to administer assessments and
treatments).

Once the decision has been made by the referral committee that the child
needs assessment, you then must "sign off" on whether they can assess your
child or not. If you don't sign, they can't do anything. Note that this is
the last time that this is true. Once your child is inside the special
education bureaucracy, you can refuse to sign anything you want and they
can still do anything they want to do with your child (as long as the
majority of the Admissions/Review/Dismissal committee are in agreement).
Only a credible threat of lawsuit will make sure that they don't blithely
disregard your input.

Texas law says that the assessment must be finished and the report written
within 30 school days from the date you signed off on it. If you disagree
with the results of the assessment, you are allowed to commission an
independent assessment of your own. Your school system has a set procedure
for how this must be done in order to be paid for by the school system.
Regardless, you are allowed to enter the results of any assessment,
"approved" or not, into the child's records for consideration by the ARD
committee. After all assessment is done, then the ARD committee meets to
detirmine whether the child is eligible for special education services or
not. This is, again, a place where credible threat of lawsuit is the only
thing that will make sure that they don't blithely disregard your input...
you are allowed to bring counsel to these meetings (and they, of course,
are allowed to bring their own counsel if you so choose). If you feel
your child's rights are being trampled, here in Texas there exist advocacy
groups which educate parents on their rights and educate ARD committee
members on exactly how many ways they can be sued if they don't exhibit
proper regard for the concept of a "free and appropriate education".

If your child is detirmined to be eligible for special education services,
if the kid is a behavior problem he or she will probably be placed into a
"self-contained" classroom first (a smaller classroom, of which generally
half the kids are Down's Syndrome retarded and the other half are
miscellaneous kids who just couldn't cope with 22 other kids). Research
shows that self-contained special education classrooms do a lousy job of
educating kids and encourage "stereotypic" behaviors. If the kid doesn't
cope in this kind of classroom (here in Houston, 8 kids, a teacher, and an
aide), then the kid can be placed into what is called a "Behavior
Adjustment Class" here in Houston. This is a highly-structured class run
under a token or levels system and largely inflexible in nature. The kid is
still allows to participate in PE and art during his internment in this
sort of class. If the kid can't cope even in THIS kind of classroom, then
the kid is placed in what is called a "BIC" class here in Houston. This
class is run like a bootcamp. The kid does not touch the door, the kid does
not leave the room for one single second during the entire day without
supervision from the teacher or aide, the kid doesn't have PE with
"regular" kids, the kid doesn't have art with "regular" kids... in other
words, the kid is cut off from all semblence of normality. Dr. Jorge E.
Ordonez of the Harris County Juvenile Probation Department calls BIC
classes a "tragedy". As a teacher in the behavior center at Dodson
Elementary, I will not comment upon Dr. Ordonez's statement.

>> a token economy where "tokens" can be turned in for special priviliges. Or
>> you can do this implicitly, by immediately complimenting her whenever you
>> notice her doing something noteworthy, and by taking time to do something
>> special with her as a reward for doing something noteworthy. Be creative in
>
> We give her plenty of rewards and praises for however tiny good effort and
> accomplishment she makes. But sometime I notice this puts her in a stronger
> bargaining position. She will come up and say "I put all the books back on
> the shelf, Mom." "Good job. I am so glad that you did it." "Do I deserve
> a reward?" "Sure, I'll take you to the park later." "No, I want a candy."
> "No, no candy today." "How about watching mouse detective?" "No, you know
> there's no TV on weekdays." "OK, you take me to Great America on Saturday."
> The negotiation could go more and more ridiculous. To her good rewards
> like going to the park and reading her a book are not attractive enough
> because she knows I will do them anyway. Pleasing behavior deserves something
> off limits.

Whatever you do, don't give her something "off limits"! She "negotiates",
as you put it, because in the past it has been fruitful. She does it
because it is productive for her. It maximizes the rewards in her life. You
allow this, and, well...

But you may wish to be a bit more creative with rewards. Sit down and make
a list of everything she likes. Then ask HER what sorts of things she
likes. Then invent things.

Notice that rewards are best when they are IMMEDIATE. "going to the park
later" does NOT reinforce a behavior, because it is delayed too far in the
future. Kids know the here and now. "sometime later" is non-existent to
them, and rewards that are "sometime later" are similarly non-existent.

You may also wish to stop being explicit about rewarding her for good
behavior. Do "good" things with her, as usual, and let her think conciously
that you're doing them just because she's a great kid, but in reality wait
until immediately after she exhibits some good behavior. For example, in
the case of the books, you might enthusiastically say "Great! Want to go to
the park?" Then if she asks, "Is this a reward for putting up the books?"
you just say "No, I'm doing it because you're a great kid and I like being
around you." Then she would probably grouse about deserving a reward, and
you could commiserate. "Yeah, that's really a bummer, isn't it?" In
reality, you just gave her the biggest reward of all -- your time and
concern.

Sneaky, perhaps, but short-circuits attempts to maximize bribes. Faber and
Mazlish's book (How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids
will talk) can give suggestions on how to handle many similar situations.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
 (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
Newsgroups: misc.kids