HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:16:38 GMT

In article <183121@pyramid.pyramid.com> breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes:

> . . . Every hour or so, the guard comes 
>by, removes the cash-stuffed "drop" box, and he and the pit boss count 
>the chips in the rack.  Then they set up the rack with a predetermined 
>amount of chips, and remove the chips in excess of this amount.  These 
>chips removed are the "hold" (what the players lost).  So ONCE AGAIN, 
>HOLD/DROP=WIN PERCENTAGE.   

Uh, this is based on the assumption that only one "hand" (or whatever it's
called in Roulette) is played during that interval.
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Vegas trip report, 8/7-8/9
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:04:41 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY


When I was a kid we had "canasta shufflers" which dropped a deck in each
side and shuffled by pulling a handle. Doesn't sound like there was much
improvement in all these years. I don't consider doing multiple riffs
without intervention much of a bonus if you get a bad shuffle.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: funky@nevada.edu (MATTHEW KAPHAN)
Subject: Re: Big August rec.gambling excursion
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:26:02 GMT

In article <g94mq_+.slick@netcom.com> slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso) writes:
>Hey!  Count me in;  this sounds like a blast.  I just made my
>reservations this afternoon.  Is this gonna be BYOHB (Bring Your
>Own Hot Babe [tm]), or are there others planning on scoping out
>the local action?
>
>
>-- 
>Martin Veneroso
>slick@netcom.com
>Jung'f vg gb ln?
>jneybeqf fhpx fjbeqf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
    I've never posted to rec.gamblers yet, but I have been reading it.  AnywaysI live in Vegas, and I wouldn't mind getting together with you guys.  I'm not much of a blackjack player, but I enjoy poker and Pai Gow Poker.  I thought I'd include a short story of how great a town Vegas is.  I was at the Desert Inn once playing poker <7 card stud>  and heard screaming coming from teh Baccarat pit.   So I wandered over there and witnessed a chinese man betteing $10 to $100 thousand dollars a hand.  I also witn


essed the guy throwing chips out to the people cheering him on.  Realizing I had better odds winning money over here then on the poker table I hung out and managed to score a black <$100> chip.  Vegas, what a great town.  Let's all agree on a place to meet and I'm there.  
 
Forgive the mistakes and how this message looks, I haven't posted before :<

Take it easy... Presto!
 
Matthew William Kaphan
From: mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: fair bet/ intelligent gamblers
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:48:21 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article l8fq0vINNkeu@nunki.usc.edu, twhalen@nunki.usc.edu (Timothy Whalen) writes:
>In article <168m0nINNonc@cs.utexas.edu> wilding@cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Wilding) writes:
>>Timothy writes:
>>> 1) Counting cards is a hard and joyless way to make a very small 
>>> fractional multiple of your bet size per hour, which won't happen 
>>> if you screw up or if you get a bad run of cards.
>>Mitch responds:
>>> ...a living at it, that they can become rich doing it.  I only know of a
>>> few people who have been successful at it and the one thing that they
>>> all tell you is that it is not easy, it's not fun, and it's a whole
>>> lot of work.
>>  I disagree.  It's possible to enjoy playing blackjack with a tiny
>>advantage from card-counting.  It is very easy to count cards - with a
>>little practice it becomes almost completely unconscious.  
>What a coincidence!  With a lot of whiskey _I_ become completely unconscious!
>(I love cheap humor)  Anyway, I'll admit that I'm being overharsh on
>counting.  It's not all that damn hard to keep a simple or even fairly
>complex count with a lot (sorry, I differ there) of practice. Trouble
  <stuff deleted>
>Nobody here thinks learning to count means a life of ease and lighting
>cigars with $100 bills, but the people who drift through the group with
>the intent of reforming us before we end up wards of the state think that
>we do.  I'm just trying to write dull little posts that say "After
>X trips to Vegas you're either nobody's fool or so far gone that there
>is no hope for you.  The latter don't post here, much."
>Basically, you're just saying "counting is easier to do than he says"?
>Fine.  Your mileage may vary.
>Some people may be making money, in amounts that seem large.  Hall's
>description of his unit bankroll awes me.  If he hits a good run, he's
>bound to have a horse-choker.  If he loses, I think he's (mostly)
>careful enough not to let himself get emotional or loss-chasing.
>We've all won $48 at the $1 table flat-betting.  Days later, we think, 
>hey, if I'd put out $5, and pushed it up a bit after each win, I'd
>be up, oh, $500!
>I believe everything I read on this newsgroup, by the way.
>TW "But the craps table told me to come _here_!" TW

Thanks for the reality check.  I think too many here might think that
there's easy money to be made playing blackjack.  It's far from easy.



---

====================================================================
Mitch Sako	LSI Logic Corp.		Phone	408-433-4187
internet:	msako@lsil.com		FAX	408-433-8796
uucp:		lsil!msako
RIME:		->REDBARON, conference=POLITICS
Disclaimer:	Opinions expressed are mine and only mine and do
		not reflect the opinions of my organization, my
		management, or my mother
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: elesatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Re: BlackJack in Colorado?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 15:22:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.215326.27908@sei.cmu.edu> rrh@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Holibaugh) writes:

>When I was in Black Hawk, I did not see any single deck games, but I was only
>in 2 or 3 casinos.

Last weekend when I was in Blackhawk I asked a dealer about this. He
said that there is only on casino in the Blackhawk/Central City area
that has a single deck table. Unfortunately, I can't remember the
casino, but just ask any of the dealers..

Interesting footnote to all this: I was talking to this guy who is a
bus driver and was just standing around what appeared to be a tour
bus. Anyway, we got to talking and it turns out that the bus company
is hired to drive casino workers from Denver to Blackhawk. He said
that they bring up 250 people for each shift. There were also other
buses of this type around so I wonder how many jobs this gambling has
actually created.

Eric
______________________________________________________________________________
|__Eric Michals____________/\_[][]}  I've got seven in the clip and one      |
|  lesatz@alcor.usc.edu    \/ [][]}  in the chamber. Will that be enough??   |
==============================================================================
From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BARGE into Vegas
Date: 14 Aug 1992 16:11:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA/JSC

In article <1992Aug14.142622.9886@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund
Hack) writes:
Say is there something going on in Vegas for netters or something?


And by the way I'm going to LV Sept 11-13 for the Chavez/Camacho fight!!!!!
From: howard@sinoda.ultra.COM (Howard Simonson)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BJ: Shuffles (was Re: Vegas trip report, 8/7-8/9)
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:43:32 GMT
Reply-To: howard@ultra.com
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

|>  ============================================================================
|>  Frank Irwin                   | My nomination for rec.gambling motto:
|>  Vmark Software, Inc.          |  "WTH?  HODYGTV, A?  AIR?
|>  irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - Timothy Whalen (twhalen@nunki.usc.edu)

WTH = What the hell?

HODYGTV = How often do you get to Vegas?

The rest, I haven't a guess...

C'mon, enlighten us with a translation.
(Obviously I haven't lurked long enough :)

****

Oh, and while I'm eating the bandwidth, last call for anyone joining the
Reno Chapter of the '92 BARGE.  I'll be staying at the Eldorado Fri. & Sat.
nights (8/21 - 8/22) and anyone who wants to get together can either mail me
REAL FAST or leave me a message at the Eldorado.  We're looking at a Sat.
lunchtime get together right now.
-- 
-------------  ----   ----   ----  ----  -----  -----  -- ---------------------
|J -------- |  |   \  |   \  |     |       |    |   |  || |
|  |/\=== | |  |   /  |   /  |     |       |    |   |  || | Member of the
|------------- |---   |---   ---   ----    |    |   |  || |
||A          | |      |\     |        |    |    |   |  || |   `92 BARGE,
||    /^\    | |      | \    |        |    |    |   |     |
||   /   \   | |      |  \   ----  ----    |    -----  [] |     Reno Chapter
||  / /|\ \  |____________________________________________|
||  L/_|_\J  |                                            |
-|    )|(    | EM: howard@ultra.com/VM: (408)922-0600 x228|____________________
 |    ---   V| Ultra Network Technologies*101 Daggett Dr*San Jose*CA*95134-2132
 ------------- [ My disclaimer is on file in the main office ]
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso)
Subject: Re: Big August rec.gambling excursion
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 23:35:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Hey!  Count me in;  this sounds like a blast.  I just made my
reservations this afternoon.  Is this gonna be BYOHB (Bring Your
Own Hot Babe [tm]), or are there others planning on scoping out
the local action?


-- 
Martin Veneroso
slick@netcom.com
Jung'f vg gb ln?
jneybeqf fhpx fjbeqf
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: Come bets at 10-20x odds
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:22:42 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <7d=yslk@rpi.edu> kinosr@rs6112.ecs.rpi.edu (Roy Kiyoshi Kinoshita) writes:
>Does anyone know how many come bets should be made when placing full odds
>at a 10 or 20x table?  Since each roll is independent of the previous roll,
>it doesn't seem like it matters.  But if you have all the numbers covered
>and the 7 comes up, you're screwed.

Unless you're on the Don't.  :-)

>Having a lot of money on the table
>doesn't seem like a wise choice.
>
>Several books have suggested having 1 pass-line bet and 2 come bets working
>at a single- or double-odds table.  That's fine; I can deal with that.  But
>to follow this same strategy at 20x odds makes my knees and my bankroll
>shiver.

The trick is to find a 10-20x table with miniscule minimums.  Quarter
(i.e.25 *cent*) tables can be found with 10x odds.  That way you can have
the same amount of money on the table, but just have more of it being paid
at true odds.
-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                   | My nomination for rec.gambling motto:
 Vmark Software, Inc.          |  "WTH?  HODYGTV, A?  AIR?
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - Timothy Whalen (twhalen@nunki.usc.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: funky@nevada.edu (MATTHEW KAPHAN)
Subject: Re: Big August rec.gambling excursion
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:02:48 GMT

In article <JACOBS.92Aug13133641@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.062602.16405@nevada.edu> funky@nevada.edu (MATTHEW KAPHAN) writes:
>
>> I've never posted to rec.gamblers yet, but I have been reading it.  Anyways
>>I live in Vegas, and I wouldn't mind getting together with you guys.  I'm not
>>much of a blackjack player, but I enjoy poker and Pai Gow Poker.  I thought
>>I'd include a short story of how great a town Vegas is.  I was at the Desert
>>Inn once playing poker <7 card stud>  and heard screaming coming from teh
>>Baccarat pit.   So I wandered over there and witnessed a chinese man betteing
>>$10 to $100 thousand dollars a hand.  I als
>
>> essed the guy throwing chips out to the people cheering him on.  Realizing
>>I had better odds winning money over here then on the poker table I hung out
>>and managed to score a black <$100> chip.  Vegas, what a great town.  Let's
>>all agree on a place to meet and I'm there.  
>
>OK, new plan -- barbeque at Matthew's house, in back by the pool.  What was
>that address again?

   Uhh, bad idea.  Not a big enough back yard.  

[cut cut]
>>
>Here are the food/entertainment assignments:
>
>   Blair -- dancing girls, Rum and diet coke, leftover bedsheets from the Trop.
>   Jacko -- White Tigers from Mirage (for security)
>   Jeff -- poker table, disguises for any BJ teamers who might show up.
>   Michael -- helium & women's panties, "Presto" name tags
>   Frank -- Liquid Plummer, Elvis costume
>   Bill -- police and pit critters to bust things up when neighbors complain.
>   
>>I'll round up off-duty cocktail waitresses from the Rio to round out the
>entertainment.  If I'm not there by midnight, start without me.
  
   I don't know.  I like the cocktail waitresses at the Imperial Palace.
I don't feel comfortable there <I'm Jewish>, but I go there to play poker
and watch the cocktail women.  They only hire ex-cheerleaders.

>--
>Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
>"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
> counter barred."

uhh, I'll get a signature some day.  By the way, Presto is the only calling you  guys use, right?

  -Matthew William Kaphan
 
I think I'm getting better at this.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Las Vegas Nights
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:22:03 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: as little as possible

Hi,
I live in Ohio.  I believe that it is legal for charities to
have gambling type events to raise money here, I seem to
remember such activities at fairs and such.  I can't seem to
find out where/when/if such events are held.  I guess I just
don't know where to look or such.  Any ideas?
Anyone from the Cincinnati area with knowledge of such?

Thanks
jim
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller)
Subject: Stupak's
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:29:25 GMT


A couple of weeks ago there was some chatter in a.g. about Bob
Stupak's Vegas World.  Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to
it, having played there one evening ('nuff said).  Now my
father-in-law read about their deal and it gave him full-on stiffy. 
He's trying to get me to go with him.

You know the deal, $n00 for the room gets you $x00 in bogus slot
action, $y00 in BJ match play, $z00 in misc bullshit (where x+y+z>n,
but the expected value = n).

What was the final verdict?  Was it worth the hassle?

Any help appreciated.

DaveMac
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ...it's not funny 'til someone loses an eye.
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
mail: davem@county.lmt.mn.org | flames: alt.good.news | Opinions=mine alone
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: BJ: Shuffles (was Re: Vegas trip report, 8/7-8/9)
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.171136.41833@uvmark.uucp> irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.174154.16152@ichips.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>
>>I've never, ever seen a casino where they didn't wash a new
>>deck.  In fact, I've never seen a casino where the deck was
>>prewashed.  Typically, part of the side-work for a dealer
>>is "setting decks", or sitting at a table with fifty or so
>>new decks making sure that all the card are there, that
>>they're all in the correct order, that they're in perfect
>>condition, and that the jokers etc. are removed, so that
>>when the deck comes to the table the dealer merely needs to
>>fan the cards and let the customers watch as she pretends
>>to verify them.
>
>Really?  I always assumed that those dealers were checking *used* decks,
>for things such as missing cards, etc.  I've never noticed floordweebs
>bringing pre-opened decks to the table, they always open them there.  I
>remember one floorcretin who had a pretty cool move that popped the paper
>seal on the card box with a single motion.

Blair has one of the lowest casino time to article bandwidth ratios of
all rec.gamblers.  Frank Irwin is right that they are checking used decks.
After the cards are sorted and verified complete, they are sold in the
gift shops (often they are mutilated first) or given away at the table
if you ask.

-- 
Michael Hall            \"...the physicist is often in the same position as the
NASA Ames Research Center\ gambler... Every time that he reasons by induction,
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \he requires the calculus of probabilities"-Poincare'
From: jason@dcs.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: fair bet/ intelligent gamblers
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:40:47 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Aug12.201122.29445@lsil.com> mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako) writes:

>Just curious.  How many hours/year do you manage to get in?  Even 100
>hours of play is alot.

Actually, if you concentrate your time you can get more hours than you think.
I just returned from a 6 day trip, and logged over 70 hours at BJ alone...
It's really not that hard if you can get the time away and really enjoy it.

jason

PS.  Trip Report coming soon.
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Vegas Trip Report --  8/7-8/8
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:36:00 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Aug13.112140.508@fibers>, mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck) writes:
|> 
|> > And we found out that Caesar's probably
|> > have the best looking cocktail waitresses. :-)
|> 
|> You should have visited the Rio.

  Well, I was there and wasn't impressed! They sure were not worth the distance
  I had to travel out of the way to get to the stupid place. Of course, I was
  approaching from the North via back roads - boy - those train tracks sure can
  mess you up. Anyway, the wiatresses'outfits were strange and that's about it!
  I think you do just as well at any major casino.

-Ron

|> ________________________________________________________________________
|> Michael Buck                          |     (western religious thinking)
|> UUCP: decwrl!twwells!fibers!mbuck     | + (healthy attitude towards sex)
|> Internet:                             |   ==============================
|>   twwells!fibers!mbuck@decwrl.dec.com | =           (unexplored concept)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: emmerik@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Mike VanEmmerik)
Subject: Re: Casino Entry Fees (Was Re : Trip report - Seoul, Korea)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:14:24 GMT

roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes:

>Entry fees seem to be common practice in Europe.  I found entrance fees 
>[munch]
>You had to wear a jacket, tie, and dress shoes for BJ, but not for slots.

How sad.

>[slurp]
>People standing behind the players can place bets on a player's 
>   hand by putting chips next to the player's stack in the "box".
>   Only the sitting player gets to call the shots, though.  (I saw 
>   six people all betting on one guy's hands!)
Similar to Australia. You can place up to 2 (or 3?) bets *behind* the
original plyaer's bets; he calls the shots. You don't have to double or
split if he does. I believe that this is possible in the US, but not
popular? It is quite popular at my local casino (Jupiters, only 50 miles
away! :-( ) because the low stakes tables ($5) are often quite crowded.
 
>Scott W. Roby           *This sentence no verb.*      "No Matter where you go..

--
Mike Van Emmerik        \ Slots can have a positive expectation.
Telecom Australia       \ The jackpot has to be high enough, and
emmerik@titan.trl.oz.au \ you have to know how to pull optimally
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:49:36 GMT

In article <183065@pyramid.pyramid.com> breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes:
>Except that the $50 the casino won cost them considerably more than 
>the $25 they used as a "promotional giveaway".  They also had to pay 
>the dealer, keep the lights on, feed the tigers, etc.  This casino just 
>paid roughly $300 to take in $25 in revenues.  As a budding capitalist, 
>you should not confuse the "hold" with profit (or earnings) - it is 
>the gross sales (or revenues) from which costs have to be deducted to 
>compute profit or loss. 

As a decrepit old wastrel, you shouldn't be expected
to understand the nuances of marginal economic
activity.

Casinos don't offer free rooms to every patron, only to the
marginal patrons.  The bulk of their guaranteed gross
income comes from people who pay full-rate.  Mikey's RFB is
an investment in the interest of liquidating his bankroll,
which would otherwise not be removed from his mattress
(or at least wouldn't be spent preferentially at the
comping hotel).

As economic cost, its value is actually positive to the
casino, not even the negative $25 you assume they spend on
the room and Amstel Light, and certainly not the negative
$300 in fixed costs you invoke, which were already covered
by Joe Football and his screaming brat kids.  Otherwise,
there is no valid business reason to make the decision to
offer the discount.

				--Blair
				  "And from what I've heard of
				   his main squeeze, it's a
				   damnable wonder that Mikey
				   ever removes *himself* from
				   his mattress...next week
				   will tell..."