HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhayden@teal.csn.org (Bruce Hayden)
Subject: Re: Out of print material and copyright law
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:14:21 GMT

leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll) writes:

>The "code" in question is almost certainly 6502 *assembler*. As such, given
>that there *aren't* any 6502 based machines on the market, all that code
>be moved would be *algorithms*, which are not copyrightable!

I think that blanket statement is extreme. What you have to look at
is the level of detail in the algorithm, not at whether there is
an algorithm being copied. 

I believe that it is not unconceivable that you could essentially
translate one assembler into another and have infringing copying.
If (as it appears here) you have access, you use the substantial
similarity test. Remember, Whalen (despite all of its faults)
was a translation from one language to another. This is little
different from translating from English to French, which is
clearly considered infringement.

>>We're not talking about the market for CW, we're talking about the market, 
>>actual or potential, of any work that may _derive_ from the protected 
>>expression in CW (e.g., code in CW that might be re-used in a later game).  
>>The effect on the derivative work's market, actual or potential, indirectly 
>>impacts the value of the derivative works right, and hence the value of CW's 
>>copyright.

>The only "copyright" that is likely to apply is "look and feel" copyright.
>Because as I note above, *assembler* code is just plain *not* portable.

Don't you think that look and feel, if not dead, at least is 
heavily wounded after last summer's decisions?

>Higher level languages are more portable, but even there, it's a tossup
>as to whether you are porting *code* or porting *algorithms*. 

Are you saying then that you can port algorithms, and not code?
I think the question is the level of detail (or abstration) that
you port.

Also, you have to look at what you are porting. It appears that the
major push this last summer was to filter out unprotectable elements
before determining whether or not there was infringement.

>Basicly, it's the old argument about whether or not you can copyright a
>*plot*. 

Well - doesn't that depend on the level of detail in the plot. 
In other words - Learned Hand's levels of abstrations.
At one level, you clearly have protected expression.
At a much higher level you don't. So you have to define
the level of abstration or detail before you can determine
whether or not the plot is protected.

Bruce E. Hayden
(303) 758-8400
bhayden@csn.org
From: dan.baer@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Dan Baer) 
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: PHONE TO ADDRESS
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Berkeley Lake, GA - 404-446-9462
Reply-To: dan.baer@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Dan Baer) 

 Okay. I am trying to find the address for an unlisted phone number.
I would also like to find out about the background of the person that
lives there. I have tried to get the address from Southern Bell,
Georgia Power, the Post Office, as well as trying to get the Drivers
License information (however GA does not distribute Drivers License
information as public information). The phone number is not listed
in the Aug '92 edition of Hill-Donnely's CrissCross reference, and
Haines says that their CrissCross is not current for that exchange
(562) (Temple GA).  So, does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
can find the address of this phone number?  I am presently waiting for
an information package from 'Dialog' Information Systems. I was told
that their database may help in obtaining information about the person
once I find out the address of the phone number. Does anyone have any
experience with 'Dialog' or any other online service for this type of
situation? If not, does anyone know of a good, reputable PI in the
metro Atlanta area? I have the name of the person that is supposed to
be at this phone number, but I'm not sure if it is their real name. I
also know (if they were honest) where their mother lives. (Thomaston,
GA).   Someone told me that a good way to find the name and address
for a phone number would be to make a Calling Card call to the number.
When the Calling Card bill comes in, call the phone company and ask
for the name and address of the number. Do you know if this works,
even if the number is unlisted?
                                                                                                                       
----
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|       Ed Hopper's BBS - ehbbs.gwinnett.com - Atlanta, Georgia         |
|  USR/HST: 404-446-9462                  V.32bis: 404-446-9465         |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: fuad@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Turnando Fuad)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: Legal Software for home use
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:33:20 GMT
Reply-To: fuad@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Turnando Fuad)
Organization: CIPIC

Does anyone know of any good software on PCs that will create wills, power of 
attorney, lease agreements and so forth. Any help would be appreciated.

--
Turnando Fuad 				Phone: (916)752-2387
CIPIC (Center for Image Processing and Integrated Computing) 
University of California		Internet: tfuad@ucdavis.edu
Davis, CA 95616				Bitnet:   tfuad@ucdavis.bitnet
Xref: sparky misc.legal.computing:2428 misc.legal:22171
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: RFI:Software Transfering
Date: 13 Jan 93 03:41:30 GMT
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory

Are there any adverse legal implications when transfering software ownership?
In this case it is intergraphs microstation PC cad program. I would be buying
it from another individual. What should I look for before doing this. 

Thanxs, Kris 
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
From: blanche@diana.cair.du.edu (Blanche Cohen)
Subject: Re: PHONE TO ADDRESS
Summary: unlisted numbers and addresses 
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 05:23:30 GMT

I think I'll move to Georgia - seems they understand privacy and 
the rights of the individual more than most other states.

Blanche Cohen
Organized Anarchist.
 


Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
From: sbarber@panix.com (Steve Barber)
Subject: Re: PHONE TO ADDRESS
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:22:19 GMT

In <1993Jan7.052330.14421@mercury.cair.du.edu> blanche@diana.cair.du.edu (Blanche Cohen) writes:

>I think I'll move to Georgia - seems they understand privacy and 
>the rights of the individual more than most other states.

Ever hear of Bowers v. Hardwick?  This 1986 Supreme Court case upheld
a Georgia statute outlawing sodomy, even where the act was between two
consenting adults, decorously concealed in a private residence.  (The
police barged into the house because Mr. Hardwick failed to appear in
court to answer a "drinking in public" charge and observed Mr. Hardwick
"in plain view" en flagrante.)

Don't get your hopes up about Georgia and privacy.  

-- 
Steve Barber                                             sbarber@panix.com
"The direct deed is the most meaningful reflection." - Bill Evans
Nothing I say is legal advice.  It can't be.  I don't know anything.

Xref: sparky misc.legal.computing:2450 misc.legal:22370
From: mcronin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael T Cronin)
Subject: Re: ADDRESS
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 07:55:56 GMT

It is not a big deal to get addresses off of phone numbers.  Look at some of 
the big mail-market companies.  I have moved three time in three years and 
Columbia House/CBS record club still finds me.

Anyway, to find an address from the phone #, go to your public library (that's 
right!) and check their reference section.  Most libraries have a phone book 
section.  Look for a book called the criss-cross directory.  This lists the 
phone book sorted by # rather that name.  I wouldn't go ordering one from the 
phone co. though--I hear the books are rather expensive.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
The following wisdom was brought to you by...
Michael Cronin      mcronin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   (614)421-9567

     We know too much and feel too little.       --Bertrand Russell
Xref: sparky misc.legal.computing:2433 misc.legal:22203
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Out of print material and copyright law
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:02:31 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <f9qt023R30Lj01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com 
(Terry Carroll) writes:
> In each case, it'd be a fact-determined situation.  Assuming C.W. has no 
> derivative works likely to be made from it, a copying of C.W. will affect
> the value of the right far less than would a copying of Windows 3.0, which 
> clearly is having derivative works being made from it.  That means that
> it's more likely that a copying of C.W. is going to be held to be an
> infringement than would a similar copying of Windows 3.0. My guess, though,
> is that either one will likely to be deemed an infringement in which case
> what the really important question is, is how much will the relative age 
> and market share determine the damages the defendant will be awarded?

Embarrassing typo alert:  

1) I meant "That means that it's more likely that a copying of C.W. is going 
to be held to be a *fair use* [not infringement] than would a similar copying 
of Windows 3.0."

2) I meant "My guess, though, is that either one will likely to be deemed an 
infringement, in which case what the really important question is, is how 
much will the relative age and market share determine the damages the 
*plaintiff* [not defendant] will be awarded?

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
From: gunnelj@curie.CS.ORST.EDU (John A. Gunnels)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: Question about Supreme Court on-line
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:56:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1itc15INN20d
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.cs.orst.edu

I have been told that there is a site with a large number (all??)
of the Supreme Court decisions on-line.  If this is true, will some
kind soul send me the address?

Thanks,
John A. Gunnels
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
From: mkj@world.std.com (Mahatma Kane-Jeeves)
Subject: Legal question re pseudonymity online
Followup-To: comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:52:52 GMT

Let me pose a hypothetical case.  On his way home from work one 
evening, John Q. Publius stops at a newsstand and buys the latest 
edition of his favorite quarterly journal, the Entire World 
Redux.  Inside, he finds an unobtrusive but inviting ad for an 
electronic conferencing system called The BELL.  

When he arrives home, he powers up his home PC and applies for an 
account on the BELL.  He informs the BELL's administrators that 
he would prefer to use a pseudonym, and not reveal any personal 
information about himself on-line.  But the administrators deny 
his request, stating: 

     "Since the BELL makes it clear that users are responsi-
     ble  for  what they post on the BELL, we  think  it  is 
     important that they be identifiable."

With a sigh, John proceeds to become a regular BELL user and 
contributor under his real name.

Some time later, John participates in a debate on the BELL, 
taking a clear stance on a very controversial issue.  A lurking 
rabid fanatic with emotional problems takes silent exception to 
John's comments, gets John's name from a message header, and 
somehow finds John's address and phone number.  He makes phone 
calls to John's answering machine, quoting from John's messages 
on the BELL and threatening retaliation; later he drops by John's 
house and lobs a molotov cocktail in through the window.  John's 
house is badly damaged, and John is injured, suffers great pain, 
loses income and requires expensive medical treatment.

Infuriated and in desperate need of financial help, John sues the 
BELL.  My question:  Does he have a case?

Suppose John can show that although the BELL management denied 
pseudonymity to most users, they granted it to certain people 
such as celebrities or others with special status.  Would this 
strengthen John's case?  Could he argue that if the BELL takes 
upon itself the authority to decide who may or may not protect 
themselves with a pseudonym, they must also accept at least 
partial responsibility for the consequences?

Suppose John can show that other BELL users have previously 
suffered defamation, harassment or other problems as a result of 
real-name exposure on the BELL, and that BELL management was 
aware, or should have been aware, of at least some of these 
problems.  Would this strengthen John's case?

I realize that these questions may not have clear answers at this 
time, but I am looking forward to informed speculation.

                                   ---  mkj


Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Question about Supreme Court on-line
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:07:43 GMT

gunnelj@curie.CS.ORST.EDU (John A. Gunnels) writes:

>I have been told that there is a site with a large number (all??)
>of the Supreme Court decisions on-line.  If this is true, will some
>kind soul send me the address?
[...]

If you are on the Internet, you can do text searches on Supreme Court
decisions with WAIS. For info on WAIS, look at newsgroup alt.wais. You
can access a WAIS client by:
  telnet quake.think.com
OR
  telnet hub.nnsc.nsf.net

Login as "wais".

Decisions are also available via ftp if you know the case number.
Information is enclosed.

- Carl
---------

Sites for the Supreme Court opinions

Project Hermes, Case Western Reserve University
CWRU Community Telecomputing Lab
319 Wickenden Building
Cleveland, Ohio 44106
aa584@cleveland.freenet.edu

The archives are accessible from:

ftp.cwru.edu
info.umd.edu
ftp.uu.net
lexsun.law.uts.edu.au (Australia)

All but the last use user=anonymous (the Aussie one is ussc)

-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
 = kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: ADDRESS
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:45:30 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <1993Jan4.132812.11524@netcom.com>, jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim 
Lynch) writes:
> In article <158.720.uupcb@ehbbs.gwinnett.com> dan.baer@ehbbs.gwinnett.com 
(Dan 
> Baer)  writes:
> > Question: Does anyone know a good way to find the address of a person
> >when you only have their phone number. I have tried 'PhoneFile' on
> >CI$ but they do not have the phone number in their database. The
> >phone number should be in Carroll County Georgia (prefix 562).
> 
> _PLEASE_ do _NOT_ tell this person how to do this except to say "try 
directory
> assistance".

How about calling the person and asking for their address?

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
From: bhayden@teal.csn.org (Bruce Hayden)
Subject: Re: Out of print material and copyright law
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:43:30 GMT

medic@hardy.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella) writes:

>One more question: I believe the coyright on a work lasts 50 years after
>the death of the author (pursuant to the Copyright Act of 1978 - correct
>me if I'm wrong.. this is from a faulty memory).  How is the author
>determined when the work is from a company?  50 years after the
>dissolusion (sp) of the company?  But if the company no longer exists,
>there is no one to check with to get permission to copy, nor is there any
>chance to have derivative copies made.  I would guess, also, that there
>would be no one left to be sued by, either, though, so perhaps this
>question is pointless.

Its 50 years for individuals. If you have more than 1 individual,
it is 50 years after the last one dies. For anything else, it
is 75 years from creation (including in particular corporations).
There are slight variations for published vs. unpublished works.

Bruce E. Hayden
(303) 758-8400
bhayden@csn.org
From: alexsy@gatecom.UUCP (Steven Alexsy)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Question => Second hand software
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 21:16:41 EST
Organization: Gateway Communication Inc.

leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

> oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) writes:
> 
> >I thought there was a shrink-wrap case in Louisiana a few years
> >ago ...
> 
> Yes, but Louisiana is a special case. They have a state law that 
> *explicitly* states that "shrink wrap" licenses are valid. The various 
> software publishers haven'y managed to talk any other states into 
> doing that.
> 

But the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals said the Louisiana statute was
unenforceable becaused it was "preempted" by the Federal copyright
statute.  In Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd, 847 F.2d 255 (5th
Cir. 1988), the Court held that the statute's prohibition against making
a copy of a program was contrary to the right under the Copyright Act
to make archival copies.

Steve Alexsy gatecom!alexsy@netcom.com
Xref: sparky misc.legal.computing:2448 misc.legal:22335
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: misc.legal.computing,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Out of print material and copyright law
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:55:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1993Jan11.065525.17032
Reply-To: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll) writes:

>In article <1ikgsaINNnbu@shelley.u.washington.edu>, 
>medic@hardy.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella) writes:

>> That's why I made the distinction between CW (an old, old game on a
>> defunct computer system which has had much better "derivative works," such
>> as Wolf 3d, designed for working computers) and Windows 3.0 (a work which,
>> although now outdated, if made free would have substantial impact on the
>> market for Windows 3.1).  I don't see that free copying of CW (or just
>> about any Apple //e (or Commodore Vic 20, or TI99/4A) software would have
>> any real effect on the market.

>Well, is the code in CW _so_ bad that the copyright owner would _never_ use 
>it in another game of the same genre?

The "code" in question is almost certainly 6502 *assembler*. As such, given
that there *aren't* any 6502 based machines on the market, all that code
be moved would be *algorithms*, which are not copyrightable!

>>  Because I don't see that any market exists
>> for it. 

>We're not talking about the market for CW, we're talking about the market, 
>actual or potential, of any work that may _derive_ from the protected 
>expression in CW (e.g., code in CW that might be re-used in a later game).  
>The effect on the derivative work's market, actual or potential, indirectly 
>impacts the value of the derivative works right, and hence the value of CW's 
>copyright.

The only "copyright" that is likely to apply is "look and feel" copyright.
Because as I note above, *assembler* code is just plain *not* portable.

Higher level languages are more portable, but even there, it's a tossup
as to whether you are porting *code* or porting *algorithms*. 

Basicly, it's the old argument about whether or not you can copyright a
*plot*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.president.clinton
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Weinberger's Pardon
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:04:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.041621.20663@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>Then maybe you should read a newspaper.  No, taping a conversation with
>someone is not a felony.  You're thinking of laws against wiretapping,
>which forbid taping *phone calls.*  In addition, most of these laws only
>forbid third parties from taping phone calls.  As long as one of the two
>participants consents to the taping, it is usually legal.

It's legal under federal law, but the law of many states bars such taping
unless both participants in the phone conversation consent.



--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Know the source of Liberty's quote, "tired,huddled masses"?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:59:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.045140.24931@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.004219.17196@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec30.190453.16688@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>>    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
>>    With silent lips.  "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
>>    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me,
>>    I life my lamp beside the golden door!"
>>Emma Lazarus
>>The New Colossus
>>
>>
>>[ The "ancient lands" cite in the poem is a reference to Shelley's
>>  Ozymandias - a  different "colossus" statue fallen with old age
>>  and disuse: ]
>>
>     However, the "brazen giant of Greek fame, with conquering limbs
>astride from land to land" is NOT a reference to Shelley's
>"Ozymandias"; but rather to the Colussus of Rhodes, one of the seven
>wonders of the ancient world. This huge bronze statue stood at the
>entrance of the harbour of Rhodes (on Cyprus). Popular myth had it
>standing with one foot on each side "limbs astride from shore to
>shore", with ships sailing underneath (In reality, the engineering of
>the time could not have supported this posture.) It was broken down
>for scrap in late classical times. The CofR is the obvious classical
>equivalent to Lady Liberty.
>


Yes,  I was incomplete.  The ancient lands (plural) quote was from
Shelley, and included both collossi (??) --  

Else ancient land -- Shelley's exact quote  -- would have sufficed
for just the Rhodes statue.

Good addition.

>     Shelley's "vast and trunkless legs of stone", "standing in the
>desert" are said to have been inspired by the Colossi of Memnon (sp?),
>two 30-foot seated statues in Eqypt, each carved from a single block
>of quartz, transported over a hundred miles from their quarry. They
>originally stood in front of a vast temple complex, which is now
>farmland.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus