HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Media Stereotypes: The Solution
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:36:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iahloINN6it
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan4.220700.21768@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <1782@rwja.umdnj.edu> jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park) writes:
>>achen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (jupiter) writes:
>>There is a need for more talented and artistic&outgoing asian males in the
>>entertainment industry.  That is the need.  Asian men who have the outstanding
>>talent are the solution.
>I'm not in the Entertainment industry,i

	I'd say I'm fairly close....

 so this is hearsay, but:
>What people in the industry say is that there is no shortage whatsoever
>of talented and artistic and outgoing Asian Americans.

	Correct.

  They are just
>denied any chance to shine by the Hollywood establishment (unless you count
>getting blown up by a Rambo-exploding-arrowhead a chance to shine).
>
>Roger, would you care to share some info?

	Let's put it this way. It's STILL considered controversial in
mainstream theatre circles to do color-blind casting (See Circle Rep
in Washington DC, one of the few major theatres doing this).
	
	Take the case of Dennis Dun. He's been in a wide variety of roles and
has held a fairly substantial non-stereotypical role in a TV show. Yet he
still gets questioned at auditions that DON'T specifically call for
Asian actors.

	Not to say that there aren't any BAD Asian American actors. But
they don't get the chance. (So, how do you get good? You get good parts
and act on stage. How do you get good parts? By being good....)

	That's one of the ironies of the MISS SAIGON controversy. Sure,
theoretically, it should be that race doesn't matter. But the problem is
that it STILL matters and that non-white actors DON'T get a fair shake
in the industry.
-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW, Uncle Bonsai Memorial Fan Club
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Re: Media Stereotypes: The Solution
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:41:48 GMT

jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park) writes:
|Other Oriental - like aliens in the more popular show, Star Trek TNG, are:
|Romulans, with their stereotypically asian bowl-like hair cuts (black hair
|color), and their Oriental style costumes. - The Vulcans do not have Oriental
|costumes.  Ifn fact, the "good" oriental-like vulcans are hardly ever mentioned
|in the new series.  The Romulans are a militaristic "Empire" antagonistic
|to the Federation, the "goodguys."

Hmmm, there must be something about Romulan clothes that you're seeing
that I'm not.  It looks like Romulans are always wearing shoulder pads...
 
|Pherengi - short, round faced, head-flaps reminiscent of samurai helmets,
|	raw meat (ie. "sushi") is a delicacy for them, has awful luck
|	with women, are usually involved in "sneaky" plots, immasculate,
|	and are nortorius merchants, and are TRADE COMPETITORS with the
|	Federation.

The Ferengi were explicity compared with Yankee merchants or something
like that in one of the earlier episodes.
 
|Do you ever see enemy aliens with hair color other than black 
|	in Star Trek TNG?  I can't imagine the producers planning
|	a major alien enemy race with blond or red hair. >;-) 

Some of the not-so-friendly aliens have no or very little hair
(Ferengi, Cardassians).  Sela, one of the major enemies in a
two two-part episodes, is a blonde Romulan.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Dwight-cu Notation (was Re: Negative connotations)
Keywords: asian american, media, racism
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:15:49 GMT

In article <1824@rwja.umdnj.edu> jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park) writes:
	[Heading material deleted.]
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
>>Legend -
>>   -ge = ethnically speaking
>>   -ci = sense of citizenship
>>   -cu = sense of culture
>*Oh please* not more -xx notation.  It's kinda blockheaded to
>catagorize people into block-like attributes in an all or nothing
>fashion.  Traits blend into one another, and people are not all
>one thing or another.
	[Sarcasm deleted.]
>my point: this -xx system, especially used in such a biased way,
>     is clumsy, artificial, inaccurate, & misleading.
> 
>For example, calling someone american-cu tells us very little
>about a person.  It's pretty vague.
>There is a lot of difference between the east and west coasts,
>even within cities, particularly between LA & NYC.  We are
>familiar with the intricacies and we are aware of the variety of
>this culture.  Many writers are in the never ending quest to
>describe their cultures.
	[Lots of good Star Trek stuff deleted.]
	[John's signature deleted.]

Well, coming to my buddy Dwight's defense, I don't think you can
dispatch Dwight-cu notation as an unmitigated evil, although the objections
John raises are indeed valid.  It's probably fair to say that
Dwight-cu notation is a crude but frequently conveient shorthand.
For example, suppose I say "Dwight is Italian."  Not only would I
be fictionalizing, but I'd also be ambiguous:  Do I mean that Dwight
carries an Italian passport, that Dwight is Catholic, speaks Italian
fluently, and loves pasta, chianti, and Verdi, or that Dwight's ancestral
village is a small town in Tuscany?  Of course, I could easily have
said, "Dwight is really into Italian culture," and removed the ambiguity.
If, however, I enjoy posting megabytes of stuff relating everything to
Italian culture, I can save a lot of keystrokes by using "Italian-cu"
instead, as both a noun and an adjective.

However, as John rightly points out, this notation certainly isn't the
greatest thing since Squeeze Parkay.  If part of my ancestry goes back
to Africa and part goes to Asia, but for the last three generations, my
family has lived in Brazil, am I African-ge, Asian-ge, or Brazillian-ge?
Is California-cu surfboards and waves?  Birkenstocks and espresso?
California rolls and wasabi?  Cruising Sunset Blvd in a hydraulically-
lowered pickup?  Harvesting 640 acres of almond trees?  If California-cu
is so complex, what could we possibly mean by Chinese-cu?  Do we mean
Taoism, Confucianism, and dim sum?  Or do we mean, as Dwight frequently
does, the root of much of the evil in the world, ranging from (In the
immortal words of Dave Barry, I'm not making this up.  Really.) child
abuse and Mother Theresa impaled on a stick to smoking eggrolls.  Or
are all of these inextricably linked in some sort of cosmic way?
						--Alan Hu
From: jin@gandalf.rutgers.edu (GJ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why are we different?
Date: 6 Jan 93 05:42:25 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao) writes:


>Be aware that Manchurian and Mongolian have their own language.  They might
>have influence on speaking Chinese, but they are not Chinese.  In fact, what
>happened was that Manchurian lost their own language during the past 100
>years.  There are very few Manchurian in China know Manchurian language. 

>The origin of Han people is somewhere around Gansu, a central province in
>China.  This is why China is translated as 'the central country' in 
>Chinese.  The current Chinese is evolved from the language of Han.  Therefore
>I think the language spoken by Gansu people is much more like the orgin
>Chiese.


Many Han people moved to the south to avoid Hu's repression. Those stayed
 in the north had mixed their culture(including language) with Hu people.
 The result is a much different culture from the original Han. 

I once heard a Chinese language researcher said "The correlation between
 the pronunciation of Mandarin and old Chinese is only 1% compared to 50%
 and 70% for Taiwanese and Hakka". Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Hakka all
 have many tones which can't be found in Mandarin. Many old Chinese poets
 were created based on those tones. You just can't appreciate the harmony
 of the poets with Mandarin.  Not only is the pronunciation different,
 the basic vocabularies and grammar of those three languages are much
 closer to the language spoken in Tang dynasty than Mandarin. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: g9utxu@fnma.COM (Tanin Uthayanaka)
Subject: Re: What's it like outside California?
Reply-To: g9utxu@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:15:32 GMT

In article 76084@apple.apple.COM, lin@Apple.COM (Judy Lin) writes:
>Since moving to America as a child, I've always lived in the San Francisco
>Bay Area. Except for short vacations, I really haven't been out of California.
>I am curious about the Asian American experience in other parts of the country.
>
>In California (at least in my experience),
>one encounters very little overt prejudice or discrimination. 
>People in general are very culturally and politically aware, and it's
>easy to make friends and interacting socially with people of all ethinicity
>(admittedly, my experience has been with college-educated professionals).
>There are also many businesses that cater to Asian Americans needs, ie.,
>restaurants, book stores, groceries, theaters, etc.
>
>Are other areas in the country as amenable to Asian Americans? How about
>attitudes toward inter-racial couples and mix-blood children? What has your
>experience been like? If one were to contemplate relocation, where would
>one choose, and where to avoid?
>
>Thanks in advance for your reply!
>
>Judy
>lin@apple.com


You are lucky...most Asian wouldn`t be able to say the same. At least for me, I 
encountered quite a lot of prejudice when I attended Jr. High and High school. But 
that was many years ago and things are looking better in Rockville, Maryland. And 
since there are quite a lot of Diplomats around here I do see some mix-blood but 
not as much. There seems to be a lot of Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese in this 
area so if you were thinking of moving around here I'm sure you'd feel comfortable.


Yours,

Tanin U
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Subject: Re: bimbos
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:20:02 GMT

Lord knows why I still post to this newsgroup, what with the never-changing
threads and all, but ...

In article <1993Jan6.142309.11254@fuug.fi> an3879@anon.penet.fi writes:
>I know several Chinese girls.  It seems that all the Chinese girls
>that I know who grew up or were born here in America are bimbos.
>They wear tons of makeup, use disgusting perfume, smile too much
>(I'm talking about fake and insincere smiles), wear clothes that
>are too tight and skirts that are too high, and just all around
>too gung ho American.

Maybe you should get out more. Maybe I'm completely wrong and 
Chinese-American women are completely and utterly different from 
Chinese-Canadian women. Nah ... I don't think so. I think you should
get out more.


-leon.
From: rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: East and South Asians
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:51:12 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Alan Hu writes:
>How can we forget Dinesh D'Souza?

I'm sure some people would like to. :-)

>[many interesting comparative statistics deleted -- thanks!]

>>Generation gap.  There's a big cultural gap between Chinese immigrants
>>and their kids.  I have the impression that it's the same for other
>>East Asian immigrants, but less so for South Asian immigrants.
>
>Seems to me like there's just as big of a first-to-second generation
>gap in both communities.  You even have similar terms:  ABC for
>American-Born Chinese, usually with "You've got no culture" connotations.
>ABCD for American-Born Confused Desi, with the same negative connotations.

Hmm.  I'm not sure.  This relates to the language-skills difference.
In the extreme case, you hear stories about Chinese-immigrant parents
not being able to hold extended conversations with their children, because
they don't speak English very well and their children can't speak Chinese.
More generally, I have the impression that East Asian immigrants have
greater difficulty adapting to American culture.

Really vague generalizing, I know.  Anybody else care to comment?

--Russil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: WANTED Open-Minded Asian Woman (from open minded black guy)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:28:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.201113.21850@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.184203.2818@beaver.cs.washington.edu> paulko@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Paul Ko) writes:
>>an960@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>>
>>: Second, why does it mean that I am not open-minded just because I restrict
>>: my request to Asian-American women?  
>>
>>Because that's not open minded. You seem to be looking for a race, not a person.
>Ah-Ha. I begin to be clued in to the thread here.

	Great!  (BTW, please hit carriage return now and then.  The
	Unix world, as a whole, doesn't insert line breaks automatically.)

> BM is not open minded because he specifies that he is looking for a AAmF. Hmm.

	Very good!

>Is this wrong: SWM seeking SWF?

	Yes.

>Is specifying race inherently wrong?

	Yes.

>How about AAmF seeking WM?

	Yes.

>Turn the possible permutations of race around in your mind for a while.

	OK

>Do a few of them disturb you?

	All of them.

>If so, what particular combination, and why?

	See above.

>Is it because you have generalised about the members of a particular sex,
>of a particular race?

	No.  It's because whoever posted is objectifying all members
	of some particular gender/ethnicity combination.

>You own post has given me food for thought. 
>May the day arrive when you just see: human being seeking human being, intrested in posting to soc.misc.human.

	Amen!  (Except that it should be posted to alt.personals, which
	is, afterall, where personal ads belong.)

>Later.

	Dude!
>Phil
	--Alan "I am not Arthur" Hu
>
	[Paul Ko.'s nice point-by-point rebuttal to Mr. Anonymous deleted.]
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Asian american males with African american females
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:38:44 GMT

In article <1iss80INN2eb@uwm.edu> nina@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Shenina Louise Jones) writes:
>
>         I'm a new poster on this net and I was wondering:  Do any 
>Asian-american men find African-american women attractive?  I've never 
>really read or seen this combination anywhere in the U.S.  I read the 
>many postings, but haven't read anything about this... Any thoughts?
>
>-- 
> *************************************************************
> NN  N    | "Jazz.... welcome to   | Milwaukee, Wisconsin    
> N N N    |  the meaning of life." | (God! It's cold up here...)     
> N  NNina |                        |     

Hmm, seems like a perfect match, as both groups get the shaft in
gender-differentiated interracial dating patterns...

From a personal perspective, most of you netters out there are
probably sick of hearing about how I was media brainwashed into
finding only white women attractive and dated accordingly until
I underwent extensive soul-searching, resulting in broadening my
notion of beauty.

I do not find all African-American women attractive.  (Ditto for
any other race.)  Over the years, though, I've met a handful of
African-American women who I found attractive--physically, emotionally,
and intellectually.  (Ditto for any other race I've met in non-trivial
numbers.)  What's odd is that I never acted on my attraction, whereas
I have sometimes acted in some other cases (white, Hispanic, Asian).
Part of the problem is simply lack of opportunity:  I just haven't
gotten a chance to know that many African-Americans.  Part of it,
though, is undoubtably fear that I have yet to overcome.  In the
circles I run in, both Asian- and African-Americans are under enormous
social pressure either to blend into upper-middle class white suburbia
or to develop separatist ethnic solidarity and pride.  Thus, both intra-racial
dating and inter-racial dating with whites are encouraged or at least
tolerated, whereas as Asian/black-interracial dating, as Rob pointed out,
frequently receives a very hostile response.  I guess I fear I'm still
not strong enough to deal with the hostility.
						--Alan Hu
----------
I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.

I am not a neo-conservative writer for AsianWeek.  I did not go
to MIT.  I do not conduct phone surveys.  I am not married.
I do not believe in Dan Quayle's family values.

Arthur Hu is a fine person.  So am I.  We are not, however, the same person.
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: WANTED: Independent, Fun-loving, Open-
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:44:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


		Dwight Joe (underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU):
		> What we have is is unadulterated Chinese-cu bigotry.  But 
		> then, we already knew that, didn't we?


	paulko@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Paul Ko):
	> What the hell does this have to do with me? I'm not Chinese-cu.

Your last name "Ko" looks like it might be a Chinese name so Dwight in
all his hypocrisy labels you "Chinese-cu" despite the fact that you may
not be Chinese at all.  After all, according to Dwight genetics != culture.
You Sir are a baboon!! (Dwight thinks all Chinese-cu people are baboons.)

In all cases, whether the last name is Chinese or not, anybody who disagrees 
with him *_in the least_* is labelled Chinese-cu.

<shrug> Go figure.

	Melinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Wonderful Chinese-American women
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com 
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:27:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.024543.14538@mtu.edu> barrera@mtu.edu (Barrera) writes:
>Hmm, gosh you mean AA women have qualities that aren't generally found in
                                  ^^^^^^^^^
>non-AA women such that you would think there aren't enough AA women around
>for you to meet?

I don't know about qualitiES (plural), but as for one important qualitY
(singular), generally speaking, the answer is... yes.

>Gosh Jim (if I may call you Jim) I almost thought you were
>a whitey coming up with yet more lame excuses for chasing after "hot asian
>babes" (sarcasm intended :)
>
>:) :) :) :) :)
>
>hehe...just had to say it.

Sure you can call me Jim.  You can call me Dwight if you want.

OK, you got me.  Probably had it coming, too.

>p.s. You sure you ain't white?  :) :) :)

Hmm, Chris, as a matter of fact, you got me again.  You see, I didn't write
that last post.  A white friend of mine was using my account, 'cause he was
scared of using that double-blind anonymous system that got several others
flamed.  I told him, "GO AHEAD!!  NOBODY'S GONNA FLAME YA NOW!!"  :-)

Gee, you can't even say something nice about people in this group anymore.  :-)

Jim

p.s. I saw all your smileys.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley)
Subject: Re: WANTED Open-Minded Asian Woman (from open minded black guy)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:11:13 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1993Jan11.184203.2818@beaver.cs.washington.edu> paulko@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Paul Ko) writes:
>an960@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>
>: Second, why does it mean that I am not open-minded just because I restrict
>: my request to Asian-American women?  
>
>Because that's not open minded. You seem to be looking for a race, not a person.
Ah-Ha. I begin to be clued in to the thread here. BM is not open minded because he specifies that he is looking for a AAmF. Hmm.  Is this wrong: SWM seeking SWF? Is specifying race inherently wrong? How about AAmF seeking WM? Turn the possible permutations of race around in your mind for a while. Do a few of them disturb you? If so, what particular combination, and why? Is it because you have generalised about the members of a particular sex, of a particular race?
You own post has given me food for thought. 
May the day arrive when you just see: human being seeking human being, intrested in posting to soc.misc.human.
Later.
Phil

>
>
>: You forget I am Black in the first place;
>
>And this makes it different for you somehow?
>
>: I must be somewhat open-minded to have interests in Asian women and to be
>: an avid reader of s.c.a.a in the first place.  
>
>Maybe different, maybe willing to go out on your own, but maybe you are trading
>one kind of closed-mindedness for another.
>
>
>: BTW, how many homeboys down
>: in the hood have you seen hitting on all the sweet little Korean and Chinese
>: girls who work in the little corner stores in their neighborhoods?  Not many,
>: I presume.  
>
>You'd be surprised, but that's not the issue. But they're not 'sweet' and 'little'.
>
>
>: While working on my degree, it just so happened that I had several
>: meaningful relationships with As-Am women; relationships which were much more
>: rewarding than any I have ever experienced with Black or White women.  
>
>Great. Do what makes you happy. But ask yourself if you are dating a person, or if you
>are dating a race.
>
>
>: If you feel I am closed minded, so be it.  However, you couldn't be farther from the truth!
>
>
>Name what your looking for in women, and I bet I could name a dozen non-Asian women with
>those characteristics.
>
>No kidding.
>
>
>Paul Ko.
>
>
>
>
From: mlin@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Mark Y. Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Volunteer work
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:02:18 GMT
Distribution: la
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

A friend of my is looking to volunteer his time to 
Chinese/American political/social/reliigious groups....

Basically he likes to get involved in somehting on weekends
in the LA southern Cal area.

Please send any info to
    
   leeming@seas.ucla.edu

He is a responsible, caring gentleman and I am sure his
talents can benifit a lot of you out there.

Thanks

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: USENET BBSs
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:45:47 GMT

In article <uD4VwB10w165w@tsoft.net> bbs.lar@tsoft.net (Larry Greenfield) writes:
>   Please help if you can!  I've been on usenet for quite a
>while now, and I find myself suddenly facing the prospect of
>being without it.  Please email me if you can help in any
>way!

I can't help you Larry, but I will say that I hope somebody does.  You don't
post very much here, but I've noticed that your posts are usually very
insightful.  It would be sad IMO if you were to lose access.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american