HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:56:59 GMT
Reply-To: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Organization: Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.

In article <27915@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>mike>does it work in practice?  "Now that I've stolen everything you had,
>mike>you're working for ME."
>>	Kindly explain how *I* have stolen *anything* you (or anyone else)
>It's meant figuratively

	I understood that.  Now can you explain how I [including the
UK Government, acting at least partly as my proxy] have figuratively
stolen anything of yours?  Note -- not things that our ancestors may
arguably have done to each other, but things that you had and that I
have stolen from you.

>If it can be shown that you're still deriving benefit from some
>past incidence, then I think there's still basis for grievance,
>responsibility, & reparation.

	Indeed.  But:  (a) The question raised was about *history*, not
about current affairs.  For example, the civil rights issues that came
to the surface in the '60s should be decided on the basis of "some parts
of the population are being discriminated against *now*", not on the
basis of "Cromwell did this to my great ... grandparents, so I demand
reparation".  (b) Even if there is a basis, it is often more fruitful,
as a matter of practical politics, to get on with life as it is than to
let it be dominated by [often mis-directed] hatred.  (c) In the specific
case of Ireland, it is hard to see any benefits that I, the British in
general, or for that matter any segment of the population of the UK and
Ireland derive from past incidents.  The vast majority of us are heartily
sick of all the problems, are paying through the nose for them, and would
be very pleased if some magic wand could solve them.

-- 
Andy Walker, Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: TMACLEAN@shark.stmarys.ca (Terry MacLean)
Subject: Permission denied
Summary: The publishers deny permission to post the Emmigrant
Keywords: Irish Emmigrant Newspaper
Organization: Saint Mary's University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:04:50 GMT

Message-Id: <9212161412.AA18497@hermod.cs.cornell.edu>
To: TMACLEAN@shark.stmarys.ca (Terry MacLean)
Reply-To: pat@cs.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: The Irish Immigrant Newspaper Dec.14.92
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: Cornell University Computer Science Department

Terry,

Good idea posting the IE, but Ferrie (and his management) don't want
it posted.  You can check with Ferrie (ferrie@macnas.enet.dec.com) for
details.  The "official" line is that you can send the IE to anyone
who asks for it, but you should not put it in a place where someone
who has *not* asked for it will see it - ie, no widely-read bulletin
boards.

This restriction is basically imposed by Ferrie's management - neither
he nor I can do much about it.  It's just something we have to live with.


Pat

---------

Thanks for letting me know, Pat.

Terry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Subject: Britain's gains from Irish rule
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:01:19 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Keywords: 

In article <1992Dec15.000627.21100@maths.tcd.ie> dwilkins@maths.tcd.ie (David Wilkins) writes:
>
>You have to establish that people in Britain today really are
>deriving benefit actions in the past, or from present day
>injustice, before you can talk in terms of grievance and reparation.
>This is perhaps best examined by considering separately the
>cases of the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.
>
>Republic of Ireland
>-------------------
>
>Nevertheless, Britain currently contributes, through the EC, to
>the development of the economy of the Republic.

This is true.

>American companies and government agencies.  It seems to me
>to be difficult to use the trade situation to argue that
>Britain is exploiting the economy of the Republic at the
>present time.

I would agree.

>part of the United Kingdom, the dominant industries in
>Britain were coalmining, steel-making, ship-building and
>textile manufacture.  A casual reading of posts in s.c.b.
>should be enough to convince any outsider that these
>industries are dead, or are apparently in terminal decline.
>Such wealth that Britain currently enjoys derives from
>industries that were undreamt of at the time of the Union.

But surely these dead industries created wealth while they were
alive which has allowed newer industries to be financed. If 
this is the case then Ireland would continue to suffer from
wealth transfers from the country during British rule.

>It could be argued that many of the stately homes in Britain,
>most of them currently owned by the National Trusts, were
>built partly with rents deriving from Ireland.  Maybe in
>fairness, ownership of a certain proportion of these homes
>should be vested in the Irish government, who would also
>undertake responsibility for their maintenance!

I have never suggested that Britain should attempt to quantify
the gains (and losses) and pay us back (or us pay them) although
others have, so I don't think this interesting little idea is 
relevent to my point. Personally my only point is to suggest 
that there were gains from Britain's rule in Ireland and that 
these still to some extent benefit Britain and to some extent 
disadvantage Ireland.

On a related point I notice Aeroflot planes at Dublin airport
now bear the russian flag. Did the new republics inherit any
of Aeroflots planes? 

MARK

-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8336 soc.culture.british:17861
From: calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scots Wha Hae lyrics
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:08:01 GMT
Reply-To: Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Computational Linguistics Unit, Univ of Wales College of Cardiff
Posting-Software: GNUS: NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs

In article <1992Dec15.105419.23931@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:

>  I don't know about sexist (come on, really?) but it doesn't make sense
>  in English. 

That's 'coz it's not written in English actually, but in the Auld
Scots tongue of Burns' time.


--
** Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>      ** TEL: +44-222-874000-x5310 **
** Computational Linguistics Unit (CLU)   ** FAX: +44-222-874293       **
** University of Wales College of Cardiff ** JAN: <calum@uk.ac.cf.clu> **
** ----- "People with (a) CLU use Suns; CLUless people use Macs" ----- **
From: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: PR -The Full Horror!
Date: 9 Dec 92 11:31:42 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

> 
> When O'Dea's surplus was being transfered those papers on which O'Malley or 
> Kemmy received a number two were dealt with by looking at the number three 
> (unless, of course, the number three went to the third of the trio elected, 
> in which case the fourth preference applies).

In the Dublin South-Central count the returning officer adjudicated that votes
missing a preference, were deemed only valid up to the preference preceeding
the omission.                                                                

> or whatever) because of fractions in the mathematics going to the candidate 
> who had the highest number of first preferences in the first count. In the 
> event of that being equal, it goes to a drawing of lots.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's interesting
                                                                        
> there was nine votes between them. It is also the first occassion in the 
> history of the state in which a recount resulted in a change of result.

Not any more. The first recount did not *in reality* overturn the origional
count as an accounting (not counting) error was made which added 37 votes to
the total valid poll (specifically into Pat Upton's first preferences,
which favourably went in Eric Byrne's direction on subsequent transfers)

                                           
> The Returning officer is being exceedingly generous, ordering his own 
> rechecks on two occassions, without declaring a formal result,

He nearly made a ruling which would give the losing party the right to demand 
a recount. I'll say he was a geneorous man. No candidate can accuse him of
making a rash decision.

> demand a recount. As of this writing (Monday evening), Briscoe has lost 
> the seat and demanded his recount. It was Byrne's recount which overturned 
> the result.

As of Saturday 5th December, a recheck of the the recount of the 3rd and 4th
affirmed the victory of Briscoe over Byrne by a margin of 5 votes (0.0001
percent)


> My favourite spoilt ballot ws one I saw at an SU election here last 
> year. Five candidates were seeking a particular post and the voter 
> wrote `1' against all of their anmes, and added at the bottom of the 
> paper "as promised".

Every constituency in the country must have a claim to finding that particular
spoilt vote

Ciaran Ruane

University College, Dublin		Internet: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
IRELAND                                           

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ulick@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Economist Article On Irish Election
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:59:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.015256.7265@cactus.org> tony@cactus.org (Tony J. Hurson) writes:
>Here's what the December 5th edition of The Economist said about
>the recent Irish general election. It was sub-titled "Ireland's
>Equivocal Break With The Past."
>
>Despite their setback, the big two parties still rule the roost. Fianna
>Fail - uncompromisingly nationalist, rustically nostalgic, led by the 

Thanks for posting - the typical British Propaganda type piffle I have 
come to expect from 'Business' publications.  To describe Fianna Fail as
'uncompromisingly nationalist' is such utter bullshit I have to publicly
laugh at it.  More Nationalist than the idiots in the PD's and FG who are
naive enough to think that delting articles 2 and 3 of the constitution
will do anything other than harm, but they have extradited too many 
real nationalists to the UK to be called 'uncompromisingly nationalist'.

(But at least we in Ireland have the sense not to totally piss off our 
powerful neighbour, unlike those idiots in the Balkans, who now want
the rest of the world to fight their fight.  But I guess Ireland has the
wrong agressor.  Some idiot countries will be dying for the joke nation
Bosnia-Hercegovina before the end of the year.)

Anyway, I am off for Christmas folks so I will be unloading my 'sparkling
commentaries' on life the universe and everything in pubs in Ireland.
A merry Christmas to everyone.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8327 soc.culture.british:17842
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 20 Dec 92 01:17:15 GMT
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

(What do you suppose this has to do with "The story of the Scottish
flag"?)

Fragano Ledgister writes:
#>Christopher R. Dunlea writes:
#>>Barbados, too, was in full swing as a sugar slave island by the 1590's
#>>because we know that the prisoners of the failed Revolt of the Earls 
#>>in Ireland spent the rest of their lives in what was sardonically referred
#>>to as "New Ireland"  because of the high number of indentured Irish
#>>sugar workers. 

#>Your statement about Barbados is rather odd, given that according to
#>by the way, they did not come into 'full swing as ... sugar slave
#>island[s]' until the 1640s. [I don't have my standard text for West

Most of the very thin coverage of this peculiar settling of Barbados
&al that I have managed to find, sets it in Cromwellian times.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: What is sago?
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:15:42 GMT

> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker) writes:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>>> esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse) writes:

>>>I have a cookbook called "Recipes from the Orkney Islands" published
>>>in 1978.  One of the recipes for a tomato soup calls for something
>>>called sago.  I've never heard of it.  Can someone help?
>> 
>> Though my dictionary says otherwise, I've always heard
>> it's the same thing as semolina...
>
>Sago is the suff with the "balls" in it, while semolina is much
>smoother.

Tapioca is the stuff with the balls in it.  Sago is smooth,
just like semolina!
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blucey@vax1.tcd.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Cromwell
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:09:48 GMT
Organization: Trinity College Dublin


Re Cromwell :
to infer that the puritan rule in England was Free is unusual, to say the
least. Also, while O Cromwell, Squire may have ben faced with threats and
invasions etc., those massacred by him in Ireland would no doubt fel that they
were being treated a little harshlty. Remember that, as in most wars, it was
not the soildery that he vented his religious bloodlust on, but the citizens of
the towns and the peasants of the countryside. Sorry, nobody with his
psychopathical tendancies can ever be called a good guy. 
Brian M Lucey
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8297 soc.culture.british:17780
From: th2_oate@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:15:26 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

From uwe-bristol!gdt!dcl-cs!uknet!pavo.csi.cam.ac.uk!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatech!hubcap!ncrcae!ncrlnk!ciss!law7!military Fri Dec 18 16:13:22 GMT 1992
Article: 9253 of sci.military
From: d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Jan Sparrendahl)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:22:22 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden


>From Jan Sparrendahl <d89-jsp@nada.kth.se>

In article <Bz06vI.F0M@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Tom Oates <th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk> writes:
|> From Tom Oates <th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk>
|> >In article <1992Dec3.223156.23027@news.nd.edu> ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
			...
|> >seems to be to maximise disruption with minimum injury.  So set small bombs, 
|> >give a very general, relatively short warning ...                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
|> The bombs detonated in Manchester weighed approx 2 pounds. The explosive
|> used was Semtex-H.
|>     ... comment on whether a 2lb slab of Semtex could do much
|> more than make people's windows rattle.

	I have very litte experience with plastic explosives but 
	I can clearly say that 1 kg (2lb) of the plastic explosives
	I have used would form a serious danger to the public. 
	I don't know the propertys of Semtex (anyone could mail me
	chemical contence) but the proportions are of interest.
	Safe distance from a 0.125 kg pentyl flegmatisised with 
	petroleum is something like 100m allthough no one farther 
	than 10 m could be injured by anything than shrapnel.  
	An offencive handgranade could hold about 0.3 kg of TNT
	and a 15 cm HE howitzer shell contains about 9 kg of Hexotol
	or soumthing like that..
	I would say that 1 kg of Semtex is about as dangerous as 
	8 cm mortar shell or a 7 cm HE gun shell. All comments 
	appreciated.
						Arthur
 

 
-- 
****************************************************************************** 
* Tom Oates (Univ. of West of England) * DISCLAIMER:I speak only for myself. * 
* Email to: th2_oate@uk.ac.uwe.csd     * PGP 2.0 Key available upon request. *
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Ireland...Catholic Church
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 01:16:21 GMT
Organization: Massey University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <27965@optima.cs.arizona.edu> Gary L. Newell,
gln@cs.arizona.edu writes:
> "I want my abortion and I want it now!". 
>In fact I want two they're small.... 

  I suppose I can speak for many of the Soc Culture Celtic contributors
in wishing you the best of luck, and hope for a speedy recovery.  I also
hope the 'men in the white coats' at the 'clinic' treat you well, and
that the strait-jacket isin't too tight!!!!



 *******************************************
 *Eamonn Gormley,  E-mail, E.P.Gormley@massey.ac.nz *
 *******************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,uk.politics
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Scotland Demands Democracy!
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:40:37 GMT


In article <1992Dec14.180127.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cabr01@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes...
>Well, on Saturday the 12th of December, 25000 protestors filled the streets
>of Edinburgh to take their greivance that Scotland has no say in who governs 
>the Scots. This has been the largest demonstration since the Tories took
>power in 1979. It corrected those who said that "the Scottish Question" was
>dead. Major denied its legitimacy and was "embarassed" by it. Time and again 
>he has argued that the UK should retain sovereignty within the EC yet he cannot
>see the Scotland requires a voice too. When will he listen. When will Democracy 
>reach Scotland?
>    This may be news to Netters. The BBC did not mention it on a national
>level. The Times was not aware of it today. This is all proof of the
>manipulation of the truth to keep Britain English. BTW I was once in favour of
>the Union. 
>    I would be interested to hear of notification of this turning point in 
>Scottish politics. Has anyone heard of it in the "UK" papers. If so how much?
> 
  I was in Inverness on Saturday and saw the event reported on the Scottish
news (it was the #1 item), but not on the UK news.

	Craig
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@system.enet.dec.com                           leis
  Voice: +[44] 734 580597                                          a'
  Views here are mine,                                             Gha\idhlig!
     and are not necessarily those of Digital or any other organisation
From: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Absentee ballot
Date: 9 Dec 92 11:07:59 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

> Besides, if it's no representation without taxation, how come the farmers
> get the vote?

For your information, farmers in this country are now within the income tax
net.
Albeit, not under as strict a system as the normal PAYE individual.
But then again, a farm *is* a business and should be assessed on accounts, just
like any other business.

Ciaran Ruane

University College, Dublin		Internet: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
IRELAND                                           

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:41:27 GMT

crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:

>Actually, considering when they were claimed by England, virtually
>all these countries, with the exception of the far Eastern/Pacific
>dominions, had an Elizabeth I, including Canada and everything in the
>Western hemisphere...except Jamaica and Belize, I believe.

>Chris the Smartass Imperial Historian
>`

Actually actually, Canada never had an Elizabeth I.  Although Newfoundland
would have been under English posession during her reign, it didn't become
part of Canada until 1949, a wee bit after she passed on.  It was
in 1763 by the Treaty of Paris, and after her death in 1603 that Canada
(ie the St. Lawrence valley and the rest of the maritimes) became a English
colony and not New France. :-).

Katherine Merle Mason the Canadian Imperial Historian
Ne Oublie....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: SE living standards again (was Re: UK unemployment figures)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:16:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.185013.6294@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>
>If I should go on about northerners
>and Scots promoting the myth of the rich and comfortable south, ...

Really, Matthew?  I can't say I'd noticed.

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk
From: evans@ece.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Blarney Stone
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:23:37 GMT
Reply-To: evans@ece.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering


What is the real story behind the Blarney Stone?

glen evans
uofa
emlab
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: R.Sharma@massey.ac.nz (R. Sharma)
Subject: Re: What is sago?
Summary: sago is different than samolina
Keywords: sago
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:14:09 GMT




Sago and samolina are not the same thing. Sago looks like white granules
and when you cook them they swell whereas samolina is like flour and it
cooks differently.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The Welsh Flag
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:00:04 EST

In article <92348.112238X68147@BARILVM.BITNET> Danny Rothenberg <X68147@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.113836.17451@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com
>(Craig Cockburn) says:
>>
>>Why is the Welsh flag not represented in the Union Flag?
>>
>
>I always thought it is because Wales was conquered by Edward I, and never,
>unlike Scotland, regained her independence.  The Union flag recognises not
>so much the Union of the Kingdoms (England & Wales with Scotland) in 1603
>on the death of Elizabeth I of England and the accession to the English
>throne of James VI of Scotland to become James I of England, but the Act
>of Union in ?1703 which united the two parliaments at Westminster.  Hence
>Scotland having separate laws to England and Wales.  Ireland, later Northern
>Ireland was joined to the Westminster Parliament at a later date.
>
Actually, the British Jack, with the Crosses of SS. George and Andrew, 
was formed after the Union of 1707. The modern Union Jack was created
in 1801 for the union between England, Scotland and Ireland. This is
the United Kingdom foundation. Should Northern Ireland cease to exist
all historical basis for the Union Jack as it is now would
cease (St. Patrick's Cross would have to be removed).

Chris