HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edsr!hkelly@uunet.UU.NET (Kelly Shuldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: bullet hole size question
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:13:08 GMT
Organization: EDS Research

I have a question for those of you who are more knowledgeable about
firearms than myself.

I live in the mountains east of Albuquerque, NM, out where there is a lot
of space and few people.  Recently, I had the bad luck of having someone
come by while I was away one evening and shoot out two of the windows in my
car.  The car was parked at the foot of my driveway where it meets a dirt
road.  At first, I assumed that the shooting was just some punk out
joyriding, shooting up signs and such, and my car was too great a
temptation to pass up, but the more I've thought about it, the less sure I
am of this theory.  The problem is the size of the holes in the two
windows.  Both windows were completely shattered, but the window facing the
road had a hole in it about the size of two fists, while the window facing
my property had a hole just the size of a 22 caliber slug.  My question is
this: can you tell from the relative hole sizes which direction the shot
was fired from?  I used to hunt a lot, and I know that, at least with an
animal, the exit wound is larger than the entry wound, with the amount of
size difference depending largely on the size and speed of the slug.  Is
the same true for two panes of auto glass, and would there be that much of
a difference if the weapon were 22 caliber?  I couldn't find the casing, so
I don't know for sure what the size of the bullet really was--I'm just
guessing at the slug size based on the smaller of the two holes.

The reason the difference is important is because if the shot was fired
from the road, then I was most likely a victim of random vandalism.  On the
other hand, if the shot was fired from the property side of the vehicle,
then it becomes a much more deliberate act--the person would have had to get
out of his vehicle and walk around to the opposite side of the car.

In any case, any comments on this question would be appreciated.  I'll
monitor this newsgroup over the next few days for reponses, but you can
also send me email if you prefer.  Thanks.

h. kelly shuldberg
hkelly@edsr.eds.com
Albuquerque, NM
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:47:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <75209@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin) writes:
#
#What if the perp is armed with a knife and starts walking very deliberately
#towards you from 20 feet away.  I know many anti-gun types who have said about
#cops in similar situations "he had a gun, why couldn't he just shoot him in
#the leg or something?".  In fact, cops have had to undergo a lot of invest-
#igation on that point here in Atlanta, although as far as I know they have
#all been (eventually) exonerated.  Still, if you get a civil jury trial this
#point can be made to sound very convincing by the plaintiffs lawyers.  So, if
#you were in this situation, why not shoot for the legs (assuming you have a
#big enough gun and are a good enough shot)?

This is something that's covered in one of Lenny Magill's videos (I forgot
which one), and briefly gone over in Ayoob's Shoot to Live: Any perp armed
with a knife, who isn't jacked up on drugs, who isn't flying with adrenaline,
etc., can cover 20 or 25 feet in something like a second and a half.  You can
actually demonstrate this for yourself, and theoretically to the jury who
would say that you used unjustified force since the perp was "so far away."


-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: speed strips
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:01 GMT


In article <Bxxzn0.D2H@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
|> Who makes the 'speed strips' for 38 sp ammo?
|> 
|> 
|> Where can I find some?
|> 
|> -c
|> *1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 


Bianci.  Most Police supply stores cary them or you can contact Bianci direct or
have your local stocking dealer order them.  

PS. They work very well, are durable and unubtrusive.
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Eye injuries from telescopic sights
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:46 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

It is interesting how a scope can come back and smack you
in the eye. Current doctrine in US Army for M-16 is to put
your nose against the charging handle for a good cheek-stock
weld that is repeatable every time, this way your sight picture
will always be closer to your original 25 meter zero picture.
Now I don't mean you mash your nose against it, just barely
touch it so that you know it is there and can feel it, the
16 does not come back and smack you in the nose even a little
bit. Now if you are holding the weapon incorrectly and don't
have it seated into your shoulder then I can see it happening.
My 7 year old son shoots my Remington 788 .44mag with a 4x
leopold scope and has no problems other than the one he held
too loose.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Hideaway Guns
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:15 GMT


This question is directed to the police officers, former police
officers, and soon-to-be police officers (congrats Eric!) who
read this group, but all are welcome.

What is the current thinking on "hideaway guns"? Not backup guns,
which are really smaller service guns. I'm thinking of very
small pieces that are hidden away for last ditch use, such as
the officer being captured or otherwise disarmed.

Is it preferred to use a derringer with 2 rounds of a combat
cartridge (.38/9mm), or is a small auto with 5 or 6 less-than-
ideal cartridges (.25 ACP) recommended?


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:06:51 GMT

In article AA02709@csi.jpl.nasa.gov, mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Matt Wette) writes:
#
#In article <199211160438.AA22652@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com>,
#kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

[ CUT ... ]

#Requiring the muzzle to follow the flashlight beam seems particulary
#unsafe to me.  I would only want the muzzle to point at something I
#intend to shoot, while I would want the flashlight to be able to point
#at things I want to see (like my kid).

Disclaimer:  I'm no combat expert (I have, however, put a great deal of
thought into what actions to take to defend myself in my home, from my
car, in the city, or out in the country, just to be prepared).

Let's assume that a combat situation implies that you know there is an armed
bad guy nearby that you can not currently see.  It seems to me that you can
only shoot at something when you are looking at it.  Therefore, your gun
should always be pointing where you are looking.  Additionally,in the dark,
you will only see your target if your flashlight is pointing at it, and you
will always be looking where your flahlight is pointing.  It follows that
the gun and the flashlight will always be pointing in the same direction.

Personally, I would not use a flashlight in my own home.  First, it tells
the bad guy where you are and destroys your peripheral vision.  Second, you
already have the advantage of knowing the layout of your home.  My personal
opinion reagrding correct action is:

1-  make sure you know where all of the good guys are (family, pets, etc.).
2-  if you can call the police, do so.
3-  sit and wait for the bad guy to come to you, preferable in a strategic
    location, like inside a doorway at the end of a hallway, placing yourself
    between the bad guy and the good guys;  if he is going to steal a
    few things, fine;  it isn't worth getting any good guys killed over.
    There might be more than one bad guy, they might be spread out in the house,
    they may be better armed, etc...  Assess the situation before taking
    any other action.
4-  if the bad guy does come to you, well, you all know what to do.

Obviously, if the life of a good guy is in immediate danger, this plan
requires revision.  But the fact remains that you can only shoot at something
you are looking at, and if your gun is not pointing where you are looking,
it is not ready for use.

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ.
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: vtroll%triton.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Vincent Trollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RUGER P90DC INFO. NEEDED
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:08:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.4mjq-!d
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Can anyone help me with information or comments on the pistol above ?
I want your opinions on what you think about this weapon, i.e. reliability,
accuracy, etc. 
Also, if you have seen them for sale, any approx prices would be helpful,
new or used.
I appreciate it, as I might have a chance to buy one in a few days.      

E-mail replys to:  vtroll@triton.unm.edu

THANKS VERY MUCH !
Vince
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Haskell .45ACP semi-auto for $125 NIB!
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:47 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <m0msBBZ-0001JbC@ncoast.org> cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes:

#viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson):

## 	Anyway, if you're looking for a cheap, reliable, fun
## pistol to play with these might be worth your consideration.  The
## company is Haskall Mfg, of Lima, Ohio.  No, it's not a Glock, or
## even a Taurus or Star.  Fit and finish took a dive to give you a
## low cost.

#Hey, it ain't even a Japanese type 94, never mind a Glock!  What it IS is a
#one handed, semi-auto Sten gun.  I honestly can't see buying one of these
#when you can get an Egyptian Beretta, an Enfield revolver, Tokarev, or even
#a new Daewoo for very little more.

	I think that depends a lot on where you are; I've never even *seen*
one of the above at a gun show in Iowa, and I like to buy what I can see.

#Spend your money the way you want, but you DO get what you pay for.

	Amen.  That's why my neighbor owns a new Harley and I own an old
Honda.  However, they both do the job we ask of them.

	I would, however, be interested in some reviews on the above.  I
might get one via a local FFL if they're really not much more.  It does
look like now is the time to fill the gun case.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 22 LR sub-sonic - anyone use this stuff?
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:22 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Nov16.185256.4162@Csli.Stanford.EDU> cower@csli.stanford.edu (Richard Cower) writes:
#
#Anyone have any experiences with the various 22 LR sub-sonic ammo?
#I'm interested in the "Aussie" brand. I've used RWS, but it's a bit
#pricey for me.

I've used the German '5mm' BB caps and CB caps and the Remington and CCI
CB Longs.  They are extraordinarily quiet in a bolt rifle.  Very quiet
in a single action revolver.  And a heck of alot of fun in the back yard
with tin cans and a decent backstop.  (This was YEARS ago, and in a 
different jurisdiction, and in the country, and I'd never do it NOW ;-)

They work just fine, but don't put them in a semi-auto and expect
reliable working of the action...  It may or may not, depending on 
the gun.

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: explosives question
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:15:22 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Nov13.194031.7648@news.yale.edu> watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#In article <--fqrs+@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#|> From my handy-dandy gen-u-wine government issued atomic bomb blast
#|> computer, a 1 kt device will produce the following overpressure 
#|> contours for a surface burst:
#|> 
#|> 	Maximum Dynamic Pressure           radius
#|> 	1 psi                              0.24 mile
#|> 	3 psi                              0.17 mile
#|> 	5 psi                              0.14 mile
#|> 
#|> This is for flat, unobstructed terrain.  For typical urban terrain,
#|> large structural damage (buildings down) would likely be limited to a block 
#|> or two.  
#
#I'll cheerfully admit to near total ignorance regarding things that go
#bang! *really* loud, but I thought the standard doctrine for nukes was
#an aerial blast.  At least one of the U.S. bombs used on Japan was an
#aerial blast device.  I assume this is to increase the radius over which
#adequate overpressure occurs.

Both devices, 20 kT yield, were fused for a 2,000 foot AGL detonation. 
That was calculated to deliver the widest blast *and* thermal pulse effect 
on the soft target. Remember that a Japanese city of the time was largely 
rice paper construction. For hardened targets, ground burst, or even 
penetrator devices are used. In a typical American high rise city core, 
a ground burst will have it's energy channelled by the street grid. The 
focused shock will travel longer distances down radial streets and cause 
extensive damage further away and in "freak" patterns.

Ted Taylor, the premier US A-bomb designer, in _The Curve of Binding Energy_ 
states that a 10 kt device detonated in an office halfway up one of the 
towers of the World Trade Center in NYC would make a stump of that tower, 
but would be unlikely to knock down it's twin unless the first tower fell 
against it. Tom Clancy, in _The Sum of All Our Fears_, describes a "squib" 
device of a few kT exploding next to Denver's football stadium. His 
description of the blast effects is fairly accurate, though his satellite
shutdown scenario is dubious at best.

Gary
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:05:16 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <199211171656.AA28753@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#One more question on this one. If I do offer the bad guy an option
#to leave and he does leave, what should I tell the cops after all
#is over? Should I tell them the whole truth including that I've offered
#the bad guy an option to leave?

Well, one would sure hope that your local law enforcement agents
wouldn't charge you with a crime consisting of not detaining a
crime suspect.  But who knows, The System is screwed up these days.
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What to buy....
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov14.043630.21903@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#
#So, I'm asking folks to name what they think will be banned, assuming
#that a ban is possible and is attempted.  I've got a lot of what I'd
#expect to be banned (SKS, AR-15, etc) but what other toys do folks
#think may be banned?  I'm really not interested in the HK-91 (I reload
#for a friend with one) and sort of like the SP89 (true ban bait here,
#no?).  Are there others that folks feel are nice pieces and potential
#ban targets?

The "toys" you might consider first might be imported semi-automatic
rifles and the imported ammo. for them.  If you wish, also consider
laying in a supply of high capacity (>10 rounds) magazines for them.
It may be that Clinton's new BATF director just issues an import ban
on those type of weapons.  (an example - the PRC type 56 rifle).
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: distance a .22 lr travels
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:45:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov16.055857.1541
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Well, there has been much talk lately about shooting safety, and one thing
which seems to constantly come up is knowing what is beyond your target, and
having a good backstop.  As an IPSC shooter, I agree with and obey these rules.
My question though, concerns hunters: When taking shots at deer or birds in
flight, or whatever, more times than not you don't have a clear backstop, or
one at all (shooting in the air).  Isn't this in violation of the above rules,
since you pretty much have no idea where that bullet is going to land?  
Incidentally, this is one reason I'm somewhat leary of hunting...seems that the
chances of getting nailed by a stray round aren't exactly high, but they're
there.  Hmmm...
 
-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: ehorne@zeus.calpoly.edu (Eric T Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Best 9mm handgun
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:24:26 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo


I've got a friend (no really, I do) whose been looking at getting a handgun.
He really wants a 9mm, but doesn't really know which is better or the best
buy. Seems to be partial to the Glocks, Beretta, Sig, or Ruger. Now, I don't
want to start up any old heated battles, or anything, but I DO want your 
opinion about which gun is the best. 

Appriciate your time!

-Eric

BTW, just to save Bandwidth, I may as well ask another totally unrelated
question. I just bought an SKS (nice gun, BTW) and fired it for the first
time only a few days ago. When I got it, there was enough grease on it to
relube a Mac truck, and it wasn't too much fun to clean. I thought I cleaned
it pretty well, but when I fired it - after a while - sparks would fly out
of the barrel. My question is, what are these sparks, and do I have to worry
about them?

Thanks

-Eric
From: jthst5+@pitt.edu (John T Haller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 caliber handguns
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:55 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <1992Nov17.023032.19198@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:

stuff deleted

#Last weekend, I visited Trader's gun shop in San Leandro (CA) and I thought
#I saw a better alternative.  They had a Springfield Armory clone going
#for $700, the salesguy promised target gun level accuracy...however, when
#I slid the empty magazine in and tried to work the slide release, it
#didn't work; we had to pop the magazine out a little, release the slide
#and then slide the magazine back in.  Is that a Springfield Armory quirk,
#a 1911 Colt/clone quirk or a quirk of that particular gun?  If it's a
#Colt/clone quirk, that would tend to rule out my getting a 1911 COlt/clone.

stuff deleted 

B
This is a non-problem.  It is much harder to release the slide stop with an 
empty magazine in than with no mag  or a full mag in on most, if not all, 
automatic pistols.  This is because the part of the magazine follower that
engages the slide stop to push it into engagement with the slide when the
magazine is empty and the follower is at the top is still bearing on the slide stop.  Therefore your right thumb is working against the magazine spring.
What you want to worry about is how easy it is for you to engage the slide
stop when a full mag is in place.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this anti-responsibility society, neither I nor anyone else is responsible.
I disclaim all.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

#   don
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:34 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


#Here's an interesting question...according to some news report or another,
#there's been a rise in burglaries (or, I guess, technically, robberies)
#committed while the residents were at home--and they were purposefully 
#committed while there was someone there. These perps were doing it for 
#feeling of power, and they were bent on harm, and posed a clear and

On a related note:  if the perp is just a drug addict looking for something
he can convert to quick cash, you might want to consider letting him go.  
Certainly nobody would blame you.  If, on the other hand, this guy has 
been stalking your wife for a period of time, or fits the profile above,
if you let him go he will probably return and burn your house down, 
probably with you in it.  

These are cases where you have to make a judgement call, probably at 
the worst possible time.  The best bet is to know your local case law 
and the 'mood of the court' and have several such situations thought out 
ahead of time.  You can't of course plan in detail, but if you are the 
sort of person who has a fire extinguisher and plans escape routes, this 
isn't much more difficult.  It's yourself you have to live with.

Rick.
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RUGER super blackhawk vs super redhawk
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:05:12 GMT
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT

I want to buy either the super blackhawk hunter or the
super redhawk stainless .44 mag. The blackhawk is single
action with fixed cylinder. The super redhawk is double
action with swing out cylinder. I like the feel of the
super redhawk better, but I kind of wanted a single action.
I was also wondering about the fixed vs. swing open type
cylinders. The super redhawk has a much thicker barrel. 
Price is not the issue. I can get the super blackhawk for 317.00
and the super redhawk for 378.00. thru my ffl. 
I am interesed on comments about these guns and general topics
that I have listed.