From: hist1261@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: JODIE FOSTER NAKED
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:53:22 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <malcolm.714074738@wrs.com>, malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes) writes:
> hist1261@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> 
>>In article <malcolm.713824326@wrs.com>, malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes) writes:
>>>>I've seen the film and it is definately Ms Foster. As for this supposed "law",
>>>>what about Brooke Shields in "Pretty Baby"?
>>>>
>>> Pretty tasteless thread if you ask me... but anyway, Brooke was wearing a
>>> body stocking in that film, not actually nude... 
>>> 
>>> Personally I'd suggest you folks go buy some real porno instead of fantasizing
>>> over nude seens of teens... unless you're still in your teens yourself.  
> 
>>Well thanks for the holier than thou advice Malcolm.  If you had bothered to
>>read the post in its proper context you would have seen that we were not
>>indulging in some kind of pornographic fantasy session, but actually having
>>a debate over United States law.  If you are offended don't read it, but
>>you do seem to know something about that Louis Malle film - what exactly
>>are your motivations?
> 
> Motivations? Let me summarize what I hear you saying: "we're not talking about
> a nude 12 year old girl or teenagers, we're talking about the laws that 
> prohibit US citizens from seeing young girls nude". 

I said what I said - there is no need for your up front interpretation - let 
me speak for myself.  Yes we were actually talking about nude twelve year old
women (amongst a lot of other things).  What provoked my response was your
bullshit posturing over the entire issue - the assumption, which continues
below, that you know what goes on in my head.  Did you read my original
posting?

I have no trouble "debating" issues.  I do have trouble though with people
imposing all sorts of labels on me as some kind of politically correct act.
How the hell do you know what I lust after anyway?

> 
> If we are indeed debating these laws, can't we debate the morality behind those
> laws, or the motivations of the people who seem to lust after images of young
> girls?

I'm sure we can debate anything we like.  We don't have to phrase such
"debates"
in emotive and prejorative terms which seek to personally attack one's
opponents.

> 
> Well, Richard, I've been a fan of Malle's work for years, and I happen
> to recall articles about the film when it came out, and the mention of Brooke's
> (non)nudity, as it was construed as an issue at the time. And I did post the 
> reply in the context of the "legal" issue, but also in the general context 
> of this and the Diana Rigg and general NUDE SCENES posts. They remind me of 
> the RAPE SCENES post not long ago. Granted there may be some sociological value
> in documenting rape scenes in movies, so it might not just be used as a 
> guide for scumbags to get off. But nude scenes of prepubescent teens? We 
> really need pointers to this? Debate over US law? I don't think I saw that 
> part - just some question over whether there are laws that prohibit nude
> scenes with minors (under 18 years old). I believe there are such laws. I
> don't really care if they are appropriate or not, but this group is supposed
> to be dedicated to "cult movies" not nudes.

I'm of the opinion that all knowledge is potentially of benefit.  Debate is
heathly, name calling is perhaps a different matter.

 I'm not a prude. I like pornography
> and so does my girlfriend.

Well here we differ, I think (what is pornorgraphy anyway?).  I hope you were
not making the mistake of judging others by your own standards.

 I suspect there'd be a lot less violence in the
> world if more people had real sex and looked at real porno instead of just
> fantasizing over brief scenes of pop idols in films.

This is rather debatable, and impossible to prove.

 Perhaps I should have 
> phrased my suggestion differently - something like:
> 
> Personally I'd suggest you go start a new newsgroup for this instead of 
> flooding alt.cult-movies with your adolescent fantasies -  maybe you could 
> call it alt.naked-girls-in-real-films-not-porno if you can't find a better
> group to discuss this in. Also, you might consider getting a clue about your
> atttitudes, because not all women like to feel like they are in some sort of 
> meat market when the men around them discuss these issues. Funny how no women
> have followed up on the nude Brooke Sheilds or nude Jodie Foster threads, huh?
> Anyone care to start a "penises in non-porno films" thread so the girls
> don't feel left out?
>  
>  - malcolm (a man with mixed motives)
>  
>  
And here we go again with the personal attacks.  I got a message from a female
today asking about one of my comments on the Foster/Hopper actually.
The leap you make from one or two comments to an image of me here wristing off
is quite bewildering.

Richard.

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