HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: zundel
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:43:51 EST
Reply-To: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Distribution: can
Organization: Canada Remote Systems



     Original message from: TERENCE MICHAEL LABACH
     Original message to:   ALL

TM>  Newsgroup: can.general
TM> Message-ID: <LABACH.92Aug28085017@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
TM>    Subject: Zundel
TM>
TM>In article <1992Aug28.112723.29850@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
TM>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
TM>> In article <sbuckley.714978223@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca
TM>of its repurcussions. > >free speech is the greater moral than
TM>truth.  i'm pretty shocked. > >if anybody thinks this is a good
TM>ruling, can you please tell me why? >
TM>> Without free speech and expression, it is impossible to discover

TM>Yes!  Censorship is both a crude weapon and a bad substitute for
TM>> Fight lies with truth
TM>> and better ideas, not with censorship.

 =======================

 Hi all, I don't know who said what, but I am compelled finally to say
 something about something in this newsgroup.

 Freedom of Speech - without the right to yell fire in a public place
 if there isn't one
 As little censorship as possible, which is not the same thing as
 'anything goes'

 Are two fundamentals of democracy. And must be fought for, sometimes
 to the death if need be.

 Having said that, these fundamental rights can only be accorded to
 those people and groups who also believe in them too, and practice
 them as should we all.

 I am 42, and WASP. I have no personal experience of World War II.
 BUT, there is more than enough evidence and proof that Nazis
 Do Not Believe in Democracy, Freedom of Speech, nor wrongful
 or unrequired Censorship.

 My parents' generation went to War, fought and Died, to stop
 Nazis from 'purifying' the earth, as is going on in the Baltic
 regions right now - where one Canadian Peacekeeper has been killed,
 and several gravely wounded fighting that same type of Nazism.

 Nazism - irregardless of race, creed, religion, nation, where ever
 it pops up, used to be, and always should be - a crime against
 all of us. Like driving on the wrong side of the road, or murder,
 there are some things society just Cannot allow to go unpunished.

 I never thought that anything could make me feel so ill, so sick,
 as to be losing Canada to the United States,

 Until I saw a picture of triumphant Zundel, and his brown shirts,
 in the newspaper, with Canadian Flags on their shoulders.

 The possibility that Canada would be lost to Nazis, is worse.

 I say - to protect Freedom of Speech, and Democracy, rule in favour
 of the appealer - Zundel - based on his appeal.

 Then take 'em all out and shoot the sons of bitches.

 from       steve.hartwell@canrem.com

---
  ACCESS/MAIL 1.00 #0274  Zundel & Democracy is an Oxymoron !! eh
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.212907.25612@ohrd.uucp> ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati) writes:
>In article <92Aug26.204639edt.47888@neat.cs.toronto.edu> quoctp@cs.toronto.edu (Quoc Tuan Pham) writes:
>
>> [stuff deleted]           Handguns (which were used by Fabrikant
>>in the shooting) are not at all "far too easy to get" legally in Canada.
>>In fact, Canada has one of the strictest law concerning legal ownership
>>of handguns. 
>
>Obviously there are alot of loop holes, and the laws are not strict enough.
>Can anybody out there really justify the sale of fire arms in this society?
>Surely, we can maintain some type of hunters association and isolate the
>fire arms within them so they don't find their way into the cities.
>

The sale of fire arms is justifiable for hunting (if you aren't
against hunting which I am), it's the sale of Hand Guns that just
baffles me.  What exactly are hand guns designed for?  Shooting
people.

peace,


Peter

-- 
Peter Mason
masonp@nukie.physics.mcmaster.ca
Hamilton, Ontario (ack! pfffthpt!), Canada
-displaced Nova Scotian
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: dalton@mantle.Geop.UBC.CA (David Dalton)
Subject: Fabrikant affair
Organization: Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy, UBC, Vancouver, Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:59:53 GMT

If anyone is interested, Fabrikant's original E-mailings have been
posted to sci.research and sci.research.careers by Dov Bai 
(bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu).  There are 13 parts, titled
Fraud and extortion at Concordia University (Canada)
Fraud and extortion at Concordia University (Canada) (part II--XIII)

If they have expired at your  site, E-mail me and I will send them to you.  
I will post them here if I get a lot of requests, but would prefer not to
since the file is quite large.

A fairly lively discussion has been going on in sci.research
and sci.research.careers as a result of Fabrikant's postings.
Many of the posters think there may be something to Fabrikant's
accusations and think there should be an investigation.  Of
course, none of them agree with his methods.

David <Dalton@Geop.UBC.CA>
Xref: sparky can.general:4182 misc.consumers:15753
From: collin@angelo.amd.com (Collin K. Ong)
Newsgroups: can.general,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Pyramidal mail-order scam
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:06:20 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

I've seen such things before; what exactly is bad about these plans?
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:59:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.010009.12978@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.194348.26576@bcrka451.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>>On the other hand, Mulroney does want to get re-elected; if that means
>>piggy-backing on the constitutional deal, I wouldn't put it past him.
>>It would show him to be totally morally bankrupt, but would that
>>surprise anyone?
>
>Just to pull a "Devil's Advocate" for a minute...
>
>Mr. Mulroney is the leader of the PC party.  He is morally obligated to do
>his best to keep the party in power.  It would be morally bankrupt for him
>to throw away all benefit that might have been received for the timing of
>a constitutional deal.

"morally obligated".  This assumes Mulroney's morality outweighs his
ambitions.  In fact, if morality really counts, one would have to say
that he is "morally obligated" to the country he leads before all
else.

>Question:  Do you think that the PM should time the election such that he
>is most likely to lose?  On what basis do you think that he should make
>such a decision?

Opportunism is part of the political game, of course.  On the other
hand, this does not justify holding the country hostage:  "Elect me, or
it will be taken as a rejection of Quebec's legitimate claims and lead
to the destruction of our country".  And that's what holding an
election in lieu of referendum would involve.

A hell of a gamble, one might say.  Except that Mulroney has already
shown us he's more than willing to "roll the dice".

Fortunately, the memory of Petersen's electoral defeat, when the public
rejected his opportunism in calling an election at a time that made no
sense (except for his own electoral chances), may be enough to make
Mulroney cautious about such a move.

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: can.general
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: What are the most dangerous (legal) things to do in traffic?
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:05:21 GMT

 Here's one that I commented on in a private e-posting, and which
 I ran into three times today alone.  I want to turn left, into
 a multi-lane street.  The law requires me (when there aren't
 special multi-left-turn-lane arrangements) to turn into the
 leftmost lane.  But it can be almost worth my life to do so if
 I then intend to change lanes to the right, because somebody
 turning left behind me is almost inevitably making an illegal
 turn into a further-right lane, and doing it fast.  Unless I
 want to be trapped in the left lane, I have to really belt it
 to stay ahead of him.  It can be safer to break the law myself,
 and turn into the lane I intend to occupy (or I could be patient
 and turn left legally at a moderate speed and just hope I'll be
 able to move right before I miss my next right turn; or I could
 be devious and make three rights instead of a left).
Newsgroups: can.general,misc.consumers
From: janick@bcrkd13.bnr.ca (Janick Bergeron)
Subject: Pyramidal mail-order scam
Reply-To: janick@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Timing Verification Group
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:27:37 GMT

I just received a letter for a pyramidal mail-order scam. It claims to
be entirely legal (even says to refer to Title 18, Section 1302 of the
US Postal and Lottery Code) but I'm convinced it is not (and this is
Canada where the law may be different).

I have phoned Canada Post but they simply told me to send them a copy
of the letter and envelopped it was sent in to them and the local
police.

It seems that it was send to everyone in the villages in my area (easy
to look-up address in a phone book and the postal code is the same for
everyone) and I want to send a letter to the editor of the local
newspaper to tell people not to fall for it. I'd like to support my
letter with a reference to the actual law prohibiting these scams.

Can anyone help me there ?

The details are simple:

You send $5 (cash) to 4 different addresses to order a copy of the
following reports (one per address):

"How to make $250,000 through multi-level mail order sales"
"Major corporations and multi-level sales"
"Sources for the best mailing lists"
"Evaluating multi-level sales programs"

Then the usual stuff: put your name in position #1 then shift the other
names down by one, dropping the name #4. Send copies of the reports you
have received when people send you their orders.

Interesting twist: the instructions specifically ask you to keep
sending more programs until you receive at least 15-20 orders for
report #1 and 100 for report #2. They want to make sure this thing
keeps going and garantees returns.

--
Janick Bergeron    Bell-Northern Research, Ltd       Ph.: (613) 763-5457
System Timing   P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Stop 049   Fax: (613) 763-7241
Verification     Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7  email:  janick@bnr.ca 
library quote; use quote.funny;                  use std.disclaimer.all;
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: Reptilian Research, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:14:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.011105.11588@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason) writes:
>I don't want to get into a gun control argument as the NRA will
>probably find me somehow.

the NRA is a US organization.

the closest thing we have in canada, it the Federation of Hunters and Anglers,
who concentrate more on preserving hunting and fishing rights than the issues
of gun ownership.

this is the toughest part of gun ownership debate in canada.

most people can not distinguish between the states and canada.

the US have little if any gun control, whereas ownership of guns in canada is
fairly well controled.

making it tougher or impossible to acquire guns in canada will have little
effect on shooting deaths.  most guns used in crimes are of american origin.

>Handguns are very easy to abuse, and this happens.  Too often.

lots of things are abused.

if alcohol was as closely controlled as guns, many more lives would be saved,
not to mention the social costs that would be saved.

the same could be said for cars.

-- 
[ Jim Mercer   Reptilian Research  merce@iguana.reptiles.org  +1 519 893-6085 ]
[             I don't want to work for a company that has a CIO.              ]
[              Disclaimer! I don't need no stinking Disclaimer!               ]
Newsgroups: can.general,sci.research.careers
From: kesidis@panther.uwaterloo.ca (George Kesidis)
Subject: Fabrikant and this news group
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:08:03 GMT

First off, I think that this news group is the ideal
place for a discussion of the issues of co-authorship
and "politics" in the academic environment.
Personally, I have had no complaints with my career
so far as an academic. My supervisors in Berkeley
gave me a great deal of attention and support.

But, I have on several occations spoken to people
who have put a co-author's name on a paper merely
because they work in his lab or are paid by him.
Often the co-author is politically powerful so
co-authorship becomes a form of tribute. 
Given that I don't know the people accused, 
Dr Fabricant's accusations of unethical conduct 
are entirely plausable and, hopefully,
will be thoroughly investigated despite his violent acts.

It is dishonest for someone to take credit for a 
piece work that the had no "meaningful role" in.
Most people would agree with this.  But too many
people equate "meaningful role" with bankrolling, 
participating in completely casual conversation,
and supplying lab resources. 
gk
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.francais
Subject: Re: "coppe"
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:50:03 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Aug28.192511.21574@cc.umontreal.ca> larochep@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Laroche Pierre) writes:
>
>Tiens, je vous en donne un autre; a Drummondville (QC) certaines
>personnes agees utilise de la "fleur" en cuisine. Devinez
>qu'est-ce que c'est? 
>
>Pierre pour Bof!     en toute amitie...

Comme quoi le joual a un fond assez commun a travers le Quebec :
la fleur en question, c'est de la farine.  J'ai eu l'impression pendant
un certain temps, que cela venait de flour (l'affichage bilingue
etant relativement recent), ou encore du fait que flour et flower
se prononcent de la meme facon.

Reste les pets de soeur (le nom viendrait-il de pets de fleur), les
cremones, et les anglicismes trop nombreux.

Quelqu'un sait-il a quel endroit le mot garage passe de garaaage (depuis
Montreal) `a garage (a doux, comme a Quebec)?

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Un Quebec renouvele dans une Amerique renovee
\_.-===                                                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.francais
Subject: Re: On parle joual
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:31:20 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
]Alors la, Denis, tu supposes encore une uniformite, une conformite
]meme, que je suis loin de voir (ou de desirer!).  Il y a divers
]dialectes du francais au Quebec (compares le parler de Gaspe avec celui
]du Montreal de Michel Tremblay) - encore plus de dialectes en dehors du
]Quebec.  Faudrait-il donc parler Montrealais pour etre Quebecois
]pure-laine?

Qu'est-ce que t'essaie de prouver ici? Evidement qu'il y a des
variations locales dans les expressions, mais de la a pretendre que
c'est des differents dialectes. En plus, le joual de Michel Tremblay,
c'est pas tres representatif: un peu comme dire que les acadiens
parlent tous comme la sagouinne.

]Tiens, un defi a ceux qui proclament toujours cette uniformite entre
]tous les pure-laines : dans une de ses chansons, Richard Desjardins
]parle du <<prix de la coppe>>.  Combien de Quebecois savent ce que
]c'est, <<la coppe>>?  Tu le sais, Denis?  Stephane, et les autres?  Et
]notre traductrice residente, Michele, Quebecoise pure-laine
]d'importation?  :-)  (En passant, ce mot fait partie du dialecte que
]moi j'ai appris, dans le nord de l'Ontario.  Mais j'ai verifie - ma
]femme, de St. Jovite, ne connaissait pas ce mot.)

Personnellement, je pense que Desjardins n'est que trou-du-cul qui se
croit artiste car il parle (et ecrit) plus mal que n'importe qui. Les
producteurs ont du se sentir oblige de lancer son album. Plumme
Latraverse devrait avoir plus de merite car au moins lui il n'etait
pas serieux.

(PS: je crois que Desjardins vient de l'Abitibi, ce qui expliquerait
que la meme expression soit presente egalement dans le Nord de
l'Ontario).

]Oh, une question aussi.  Une autre chanson sur le meme disque, c'est
]<<Nataq>>.  C'est quoi, Nataq?  D'apres les paroles, cela semblerait
]etre un endroit, mais ce ne me dit vraiment rien.

Probablement Natasquan, la ville natale de Gille Vigneault. Il me
semble que c'est sur la cote nord, TRES a l'est (apres Baie Comeau).




-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: larochep@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Laroche Pierre)
Newsgroups: can.francais
Subject: re: "coppe"
Summary: Cuivre
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:25:11 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


En reponse au Rhealiste:

> Tiens, un defi a ceux qui proclament toujours cette uniformite entre
> tous les pure-laines : dans une de ses chansons, Richard Desjardins
> parle du <<prix de la coppe>>.  Combien de Quebecois savent ce que
> c'est, <<la coppe>>?  Tu le sais, Denis?  Stephane, et les autres?  Et
> notre traductrice residente, Michele, Quebecoise pure-laine
> d'importation?  :-)  (En passant, ce mot fait partie du dialecte que
> moi j'ai appris, dans le nord de l'Ontario.  Mais j'ai verifie - ma
> femme, de St. Jovite, ne connaissait pas ce mot.)

A Montreal, le mot "coppe" est tout de meme souvent employe dans le domaine
de la plomberie: le tuyau de "coppe" pour cuivre.

> Oh, une question aussi.  Une autre chanson sur le meme disque, c'est
> <<Nataq>>.  C'est quoi, Nataq?  D'apres les paroles, cela semblerait
> etre un endroit, mais ce ne me dit vraiment rien.

Ca ne me dit rien non plus...

Tiens, je vous en donne un autre; a Drummondville (QC) certaines
personnes agees utilise de la "fleur" en cuisine. Devinez
qu'est-ce que c'est? 

Pierre pour Bof!     en toute amitie...
Newsgroups: can.francais,can.politics
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: On parle joual
Followup-To: can.francais
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:49:36 GMT

In article <BtLqu0.6Bs@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>
>Pis, la prochaine fois, tit-cul, je t'le dirai en joual.
>Comme ca, les Quebecois pure-laine et ceux qui les ont rejoint et
>partage les memes expression locales, pourront comprendre, alors que
>toi tu ne verras rien!

Alors la, Denis, tu supposes encore une uniformite, une conformite
meme, que je suis loin de voir (ou de desirer!).  Il y a divers
dialectes du francais au Quebec (compares le parler de Gaspe avec celui
du Montreal de Michel Tremblay) - encore plus de dialectes en dehors du
Quebec.  Faudrait-il donc parler Montrealais pour etre Quebecois
pure-laine?

Tiens, un defi a ceux qui proclament toujours cette uniformite entre
tous les pure-laines : dans une de ses chansons, Richard Desjardins
parle du <<prix de la coppe>>.  Combien de Quebecois savent ce que
c'est, <<la coppe>>?  Tu le sais, Denis?  Stephane, et les autres?  Et
notre traductrice residente, Michele, Quebecoise pure-laine
d'importation?  :-)  (En passant, ce mot fait partie du dialecte que
moi j'ai appris, dans le nord de l'Ontario.  Mais j'ai verifie - ma
femme, de St. Jovite, ne connaissait pas ce mot.)

Je ne revele pas la solution tout de suite - j'encouragerais les gens
a repondre par courrier plutot qu'ici, pour que ca demeure un defi
valable.

Oh, une question aussi.  Une autre chanson sur le meme disque, c'est
<<Nataq>>.  C'est quoi, Nataq?  D'apres les paroles, cela semblerait
etre un endroit, mais ce ne me dit vraiment rien.

Notez bien : Followup-To: can.francais

Le Rhealiste - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Parlant pour moi-meme
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.francais
Subject: Re: On parle joual
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:26:25 GMT
	<BttLLr.MDr@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

>>>>> On 30 Aug 92 23:37:03 GMT, beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) said:

  > In article <mZ68PB1w165w@aqua.ocunix.on.ca> steve@aqua.ocunix.on.ca (Steve Cooper) writes:
  > >
  > ><<La Coppe>>, est-ce que c'est quelque chose que les athletes portent afin 
  > >de <<se proteger>>?
  > >
  > >Moi, le pauvre anglophone

  > Non, ca c'est la capotte.  Pas vraiment la meme chose.

  > Et pas si pauvre que ca!  Un francais impeccable (sauf
  > pour la coppe :^)  ).

Je pense que Steve refere au "Jack strap" (ou "slip
coquille", ou coquille de protection, etc). Evidement,
certains athletes comme Magic Johnson auraient eu interet a
porter la capotte.
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
Newsgroups: can.francais
From: 35002_3044@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Univ. de Western Ontario
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:15:26 GMT

Y a t'il des etudiants francophones a l'university of western ontario. si oui
s'il vous plait ecrivez moi sur le vax!
marcel fortin
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tuesday, 1 Sep 1992 22:26:21 EDT
From: <BEAUCHEM@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.francais
Subject: Re: Nataq (etait: On parle joual)

Nataq: Nom propre de l'Inuit en question.

Desjardins tente de partager avec son public ses point de vue et emotions
concernant ses preoccupations avec le continent dans ses facettes du passe
[mais ou sont les fichus accents ? :-)].  Par exemple les migrations pour
suivre le caribou, le passage du detroit de Bering, la vie sociale avant
l'arrivee des europeens...  Un effet Yves Theriault chantant Agaguk en quelques
minutes.  La poesie de Desjardins trace de jolis croquis.  La couleur provient
tant du savoir de l'auditeur que du savoir de Desjardins et de ce que lui
en tire et interprete.  Ce qui livre la porte ouverte a de grandes variations:
parfois en proportion exacte avec l'ignorance de l'artiste decouvrant quelque
fait bien connu de l'auditeur.  C'est entre autre ce qui se produisait souvent
quand des artistes locaux visitaient d'autres pays et en ramenaient un
emerveillement etrange a ceux qui soit y etaient deja passes, soit le savaient
en lisant ou par la television et le cinema.  Ex:"Manekenpis" est tout petit!
(L'epaisse croyait qu'un notaire allait se planter les chutes Niagara dans son
modeste parterre sans doute.)  Les cow-boys venaient de la Camargue.  (Wow!
Et le public qui devait speculer jusque-la sur le comment et pourquoi les cow-
boys avaient emigres en France!).  Plus l'artiste etait creux, plus il en avait
 a remplir.

Desjardins sans etre creux, reflete ses points de vue et ses interprtations re-
velant qu'il n'est pas Einstein, connait et peins bien son coin du Quebec, l'ex
prime franchement avec son accent...  Ca bat Madona a plate couture non?

Daniel Raymond
Beauchem@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
De nada.
Newsgroups: can.francais