HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:17 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1496@adpplz.UUCP> adpgate!martin@uunet.uu.net (Martin Golding) writes:
#
#PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:
#
## This reminds of a cannon innovation which came about during the War for
## Southern Independence (a.k.a. Civil War). The cannon was double-barreled.
## The cannon balls were connected with a length of chain. 
#
#This sounds unlikely, as chain shot was already well developed and
#in general use on shipboard. Split the cannonball, and run a linked
#pair of rods or a chain between the halves. (Load the connection in
#front of the ball, of course.)

<stuff deleted>

One of the earlier posters mentioned seeing one of these in Athens, GA.
He thought it was the only one; I know that there is at least one other one
around, since I have NOT seen the one in Athens, but I have seen one of these
beasties.  Now if I could just remember WHERE I've seen it; countless cannon
exhibits in the Carolinas and Florida are all jumbled up in my memory. Sigh.
The unit I saw had been made for the purpose; it had the touch holes on the
side, tied together with a bit of iron that allowed both barrels to be fired
at the same time.  Of course, it didn't work too well; grapeshot WAS a lot
more effective.

#I'd like to see a reference for the two cannons- that sort of thing
#was popular centuries earlier; I'd think just loading grape would have
#been sufficient in the War between the States.

There's something about guns that just brings out the tinkerer in some folks.
The same things get invented over and over again.  (Remember the discussion
recently about necking down the .30 carbine case to .22?)  Building a twin
cannon wouldn't have even required an arsenal-level rebuild; taking two cannon
and mounting them on a custom carriage could be handled with the tools found on
any farm.  Having a "secret weapon" like that might just help the morale of a
small unit - until they tried to fire it.




-- 

Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: How new is NIB (New In Box) ??  (Classified ads)
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:42:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: peg.HOLLEN.92Aug19080628
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 19 Aug 92 00:32:34 GMT, mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington) said:


Matt> I've seen some good prices in Gun List for some guns that I'm looking
Matt> at.  But, when they say "NIB" meaning New In Box, do they really mean
Matt> it?  Has anyone had experience with buying through classified ads?  How
Matt> can I tell if it has been fired?

Supposedly NIB means brand new like at a store.  Never been shot.  In
practice this can be quite different.  I bought a Remington 700BDL in
.17 caliber as NIB from the Gun List and when I finally gave up trying
to get it to shoot (tumblers down and to the right as much as 3 feet
from point of aim after a three shot group of 1"), I sent it to
Remington for diagnosis.  They said the barrel was ruined and replaced
the barrel and action.  

The funny thing was that the exterior of the gun was absolutely
pristine.  I still don't understand how the barrel could have been
ruined if the exterior was not worn also.

Don't take this as the norm unless you hear a lot of similar comments
from other people, but it at least happens that you do not get what
you pay for.  You may have some recourse through the U.S. Postal
Service Fraud Unit since these advertisements go through the mail, but
when Remington replaced the action and barrel for $155 it was not
worth my effort to pursue it any further.


-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: hmueller@orca.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NRA focus [was Re: Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays ]
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:44:03 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences, Texas A&M University

I was in Houston over the weekend, near the Astrodome (site of the 
Republican Convention).  The area was thick with "We're the NRA, 3,000,000
strong, and we vote" billboards.  In terms of square footage, they
were outdone by pro/con abortion billboards, but easily outdistanced
Coca-Cola, the third place advertiser.  The "new NRA" is working at it
to make sure the politicians pay attention.


-- 
Hal Mueller		  hmueller@orca.tamu.edu    
  "A well educated Electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State,
   the right of the People to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."
   [Obviously, the above statement only supports state-run law libraries.]
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Deer Loads for .35 Remington Wanted.
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:32:03 GMT



  I recently purchased a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington
and look forward to using it for deer season this fall
in Pennsylvania (Forest County).

  Can anyone recommend any good handloads in the 220
to 220 grain bullet class?  Nothing hot, just a good,
accurate load. I hunt heavy woods and most deer are
taken w/in 100 yards.

  I have a fair amount of experience handloading for
handguns, but this will be my first time handloading for
a rifle.

  Thanks in advance.

Ken
From: glaird@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Safe
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA


 kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) asks:

# I'm going to purchase a gun safe. I'll appreciate it if anyone can
# answer my questions.
# 
# (1) A local gun store told me that a Browning safe is the only way
#     to go and all other brands are not worthwile to get. Is that
#     true? If not, what other brands should I consider?

     From my research I have a sneaky suspicion that all safes are really
made by one or two manufacturers in Utah, and everyone gets them from them.
I.E. Browning, Fort Knox, etc just have their logo's affixed to a particular
safe at the factory.
     A locksmith friend of mine, told me the real delimiter in safe
effectiveness is the lock.  My 'Liberty' safe has an S&G class II lock.  My
friend says class III is best, but mine is good enough for its purpose.

# (2) He wants to charge me: the whole sale price + $50 profit + tax + shipping.
#     Is that a good deal? ( Shipping is about $60 in this case. )

   Depends on the price.  I ordered mine, direct from Liberty Safes in Utah.
I think they are in Ogden, no number handy.  It was 60" H, 24" W, 22" deep.
Plain jane finish.  Spartan combo interior.  I'm happy with it.  $600 for
the safe and $60 shipping to CA.  No sales tax.

# (3) I've seen a few gun safe ads. in the Shotgun News. Anyone has had
#     experiences with them? Any disadvantages to buy a safe from them?

   I dealt with A.G. English once.  I would not deal with these folks ever
again.  I miscalculated the dimensions required for the 1st safe that I
ordered.  I called back to A.G. English to cancel the order.  I volunteered
to pay the shipping to return the safe to the factory, since it was my 
mistake that caused the inconvenience.  I got the bill a month later.
It was 1.5 times what the shipping would have been to get the safe to my home.
Also, the explaination on the bill from the factory, indicated my safe 
never really left the factory at all.  So, apparently A.G. English was never
really out any real money for that safe.  It was then redirected to another
customer and I ended up paying his shipping bill.
From: SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Black powder ballistics?
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:18 GMT


   After borrowing my equipment for 2 years, I have a friend who is finally
   _getting serious_ about muzzle loading hunting.  (Read, he finally bought
   a gun!).  Being the individualist he is (aren't we all :-), he isn't 
   content to do things in the traditional manner (like me ;-).  I'm quite 
   satisfied with the 385 gr. hollow base, hollow point "Buffalo Bullets", 
   favored by some of the popular scribes.

   He would like to see some ballistic charts for the various .50 cal rounds,
   especially a comparison of the saboted rounds.  We saw 185 gr, 225 gr., and
   un-saboted 385 gr. "Buffalo Bullets" in just one store at lunch today.  I
   am also aware of a number of saboted modern pistol bullets, mostly .44 cal 
   nominal diameter (sabot brings it up to .50 cal).

   I read incessantly about guns and hunting, specifically "Guns and Ammo", 
   "American Rifleman", and numereous hunting publictions, including some
   devoted exclusively to black powder.  I don't remember ever seeing a direct
   comparison of the different rounds.  Some articles have touted a specific
   round, but not to the extent of some ballistic reviews a la "Guns and Ammo".
   He is particularly interested in "downrange" ballistics vs. muzzle velocity.

   Does anyone know of such data?  Thanks in advance.    Mike

   P.S.  He has no intention of shooting round balls.  His gun?  A CVA Appolo
   .50 cal, with a 1-in-32 twist.

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
|  Armstrong Labs, Logistics Research Div.         SYSTEMM@[131.28.15.14]     |
|  Comm: (513)255-8225    DSN 785-8225    (a.k.a.) MWUEST@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL  |
|  "If it wasn't for our guns, we would be British citizens.  Think about it!"|
| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
From: cgallagh@cordelia.next.nd.edu (christopher gallagher)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .22 cal handgun
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:44 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame

I went to a .22 cal target shooting match with a cousin and enjoyed it  
very much.  I would like to get involved where I live.  I have shot skeet  
but have only plinked with a few pistols.  I would appreciate any  
suggestions on pistols that are good enough for competition.

Christopher
From: rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:02:34 GMT
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics

bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) writes:

#We all know that dropping the slide on an empty chamber causes the gun
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#to jump forward and the trigger to activate the sear because the trigger's
#mass tries to hold the trigger still when the rest of the gun jumps forward.
#That's why dropping the slide can give you an A.D.My theory as to the
                                               ^^^^^
Doesn't seem too likely to me... -Are you sure you mean Accidental Discharge?

[MODERATOR: Hmmm.   Point well taken....]
From: swatt@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: reloading & lead
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:14:00 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


After spending considerable effort to find a nice clean-burning powder for
my reloads, someone at the range finally told me all that smoke was
vaporized lead and bullet lube!  I've been buying boxes marked "hard cast",
bullets for both .45 and .357, but none of the boxes ever gave percentages
of lead, tin, and antimony, so I don't really know what I've been shooting.

After one shooting session with 148 gr. double-ended wad-cutters in .357,
I must have spent 4 or 5 hours cleaning the lead out of the barrel and
cylinder.  I was always careful to load mild with lead bullets, believing
that muzzle velocities below 1000 fps were safe from leading.  I kept my
reloads in the 850-950 fps range.  What I'm now told is the flash of
the propellant actually vaporizes some of the lead regardless of muzzle
velocity.  Some of the vapor deposits on the barrel, and some deposits
on the cylinder, forcing cone, and topstrap.  (and some gets inhaled ...).

My next box of bullets were Carroll 158 gr cast, total copper jacketed
(this is a clad, or electro-plated jacket; not the swaged kind).  These
bullets are about double the price of straight cast, but still much
cheaper than swaged jacketed.

Since I've got jacketed bullets, I thought I might as well make things
more interesting and loaded them over 16.0 gr of Win 296.  Depending on
which reloading manual you believe this is 0.6 - 1.5 grains short of
maximum.

The good news is: no leading.  The bad news is: I get little slivers
of copper spit back at me with enough force to penetrate my skin.  It's
usually on the left forearm, but I've also caught a couple on the left
side of my neck (another good reason to wear those shooting glasses).

The gun is a reasonably new Ruger GP-100 which has never been abused.
I've never had spitting with cast bullets, and I've put at least 100
rounds of the Federal 125 gr. hot stuff through it with no problems.
I'm as certain as I can be short of a trip to the gunsmith that this
gun is properly timed.

I've use the same type of Carroll bullets to reload .40 S&W with good
results.

Questions:

  1)	Is there something about the clad-jacket process which makes
	it unsuitable for magnum revolvers?

  2)	If answer to (1) is no, does Carroll do something wrong that
	other makers avoid?

  3)	Is there a source of reliably "hard cast" bullets that don't
	produce a lot of lead vapor, or is this problem inherent in
	any cast bullet.  I've read about gas-checks, but I've never
	used them.

I'd like to find a source for bullets cheaper than the $0.10 @ that
swaged-jacketed ones will go for, but saving a few bucks is not worth
several hours of cleaning time.

It seems these kind of clad bullets are relatively new, and if there
are any special considerations for loading them, the reloading manuals
don't mention them/


-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:17:02 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9208140007.AA13895@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
}I think that it might be useful to present some of our dumb
}mistakes as learning material.  I'm sure that most of us
}have done something or other while shooting that might have
}been avoided if we had been thinking about it, or more
}observant of what we were doing.
}
}This migh help others learn to avoid potential trouble by
}someone else's experience (that is, less painfully).

Ok, here's one I was reminded of when I saw a neophyte do the same thing a
couple of days ago.  Fortunately, I was there to correct them in time.  I
was on my own when ...

It was the first time I tried firing my SIG DA.  Pull trigger.  Bang!  So
far, so good.  Pull trigger again.  Nothing.  Er?

First instinct:  Look at the gun to see what's wrong.  Forgotten rule:
Keep the muzzle pointed down range.

I turned it sideways and, in so doing, applied a little more pressure to
the trigger.  Bang!  O h  m y  G o d.  That was dumb.  Real dumb.  Nothing
damaged and no one hurt, fortunately.

I've been practicing the DA->SA transition a lot ever since.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: dougnews@access.digex.com (Doug Humphrey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:54:51 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA

#This kind of scenario is why I get more than a little upset at stories
#of handing novice shooters who've just fired their first magazine of
#.22s a .44 magnum (or 12 ga. shotgun) and saying "here, try this" as
#a joke.

When I am showing someone how to shoot for the first time
(vs. showing them for the third or forth ;-( ) and they 
want to shoot the .45 after lots of .22, I will put one 
round in it and let them go for it (mentioning that it 
will kick a lot, of course).  Some people just have to learn
for themselves, but having only one round in it is good 
insurance that whatever happens after that won't turn into some
sort of nasty situation.  

#One one occasion taking someone out to teach them to shoot with a .22
#semi-auto.  Things were going fairly nicely until one of the hot empties
#went right down the front of her shirt.  In the commotion which followed,
#proper muzzle awareness was not maintained.

Tell them to wear something that covers up the delicate bits
better!

I go shooting on my lunch hour sometimes, and have been known to be in
a meeting in the afternoon and pull spent brass from my shirt pocket that
snuck in there.  Of course, here was a meeting where all 4 people in
attendence had been shooting at lunch.  Got lots of gun talk done at the
meeting, but not much software design.

Doug Humphrey
doug@digex.com

--
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Dillon
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:09:26 GMT
Organization: A Glorified, Overheated Swamp

Howdy 

I recently received a catalog from Dillon (the "Stealth Catalog") 
and was wondering if someone could confirm my interpretation of 
the press descriptions.  I want to get started in reloading, but 
as a neophyte, I'm not quite sure what features do what.  

As far as I can determine, the major difference between the (new) 
XL 650 and the RL 550B is the automagic casefeed and powder-check 
on the 650.  The Square Deal seems to differ from the 550B in that 
the SDB is limited to pistol rounds.  Does that pretty well sum up 
the (functional) differences?

As five of the six firearms in my home are handguns (the longarm is 
an SKS for which I use cheap surplus ammunition) I am leaning toward 
the Square Deal.  Assuming I never get the bug to reload rifle or 
shotgun ammo (ok, maybe a big assumption, but if ...) is the Square
Deal a good choice?  Or would it be worthwhile to get a 550B just
for pistol rounds - does it have an extra station or some other bell
or whistle that the Square Deal lacks?

Any other comments? 

Thanks. 


-- 
 Jordan M Kossack   |   "To use taxes to cure a deficit is like using 
 kossack@rice.edu   |    leeches to cure anemia."    -- Ronald Reagan 
  +1 713 240 2073   |   "Voodoo Economics!"            -- George Bush
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Oops (was Re: Beginners ?'s on caliber)
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:02:32 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:

Denis Cohen has politely pointed out to me that I goofed.

#Of course, there are some confusions  -  some cartridges were given a
#calibre in inches which was larger than the bullet diameter, thus 
#.38 Special is a .357 and .32 ACP is a .308 (30-calibre).

.32 ACP is NOT a .308 calibre.

I will now write 100 times, "I must not post to rec.guns while thinking
about work and not concentrating."

Geoff Miller (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)  |   Don't steal.  The government
Computer Centre                     |   hates competition.
Australian Defence Force Academy    |   (via Jeff Cooper)
From: grant@bluemoon.rn.com (Grant DeLorean)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:08:01 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:

#Federal, I think uses gold colored primers in their factory ammo
#and doesn't sell them to the public for one.  I dunno if anyone
#else is doing similar things or if the Federal primers that _are_
#sold as components are the same as the "gold" factory ones. 

 Remington 7 1/2 primers (benchrest primers, small rifle) are
gold colored...
-- 
\   Grant DeLorean  - IHMSA & NRA Life Member -  (grant@bluemoon.rn.com)   /

        Tested on dolphins and assorted helpless furry creatures
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best Way To Measure Group Sizes
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:33:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <19060@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#
#In article <9208062250.AA11433@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com> bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt) writes:
##common ways of stating measured group size are:
##   * Extreme spread; center to center.
##   * Average extreme spread for several n-shot groups.
##   * Mean radius of all shots from center of group.
#
#These are all lousy, although the third is better than the others.
# [...goes on to describe a Gaussian distribution solution...]

Back in the days when singleshot rifles and 220-yard, iron-sight
matches were popular, one method of figuring scoring was to run
a string from hole to hole to figure which group was smallest in
the contest.  Apparently worked pretty well.



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Brownell Finishes
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:25:19 GMT

Has anyone used Brownell's Baking Lacquer?  This is a metal finish
that is sprayed on the gun, then baked at 325 degrees for 20 minutes.
If anyone is familiar with it, how does it look, and how durable
is it?

I'm debating between using that or Brownell's Parkerizing solution...


Rob