HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Book: Popular Nutritional Practices, by Jack Yetiv
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 07:00:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep13.055940.13189@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>This is a repost from sci.med.nutrition which might be of interest
>in the discussion about "Fit for Life".

Thanks, I forgot that that discussion was raging here.  I'd had it in
my kill file.


>I don't think it's fair to
>assume that it does a hatchet job on vegetarianism per se,

Indeed.  The author is very positive on vegetarian diets and spends
several pages demonstrating why they are superior to the standard
american diet.  He also demonstrates the unimportance of over-emphasis
on protein combining: "although much is made of this concept in the
nutritional literature [protein combining], it is difficult not to eat
complementary proteins unless one follows a very strict unbalanced
diet.  Most studies that have examined protein intake in vegetarians
have found it to be adequate (see also last section in this chapter).
This is especially true for ovolactovgetarians since both egg white
and milk protein are complete proteins."  His only real caution to
vegetarians concerns iron intake, though he notes that this is a
concern to people with omnivorous diets as well.

>it appears to debunk all sorts of pseudo-science, much of which is
>unfortunately a hanger-on to the vegetarian movement.

He both debunks and points out which popular notions in the nutrition
field are sound.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
From: kgerman@teal.csn.org (Karyn German)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: pre-frozen tofu is firmer
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:41:11 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <adwright.716058252@vincent1.iastate.edu> adwright@iastate.edu () writes:
>I read somewhere that when tofu is frozen, then thawed, it has a firm 
>texture. I have tried it and was pleased with the results. This resilence 
>opened up a lot of new cooking possibilites.
>
>I took a pack of frozen-thawed tofu and cut it into slices, then fried
>these "steaks" with chopped garlic. A few minutes later i added some
>tomato soup, simmered it and served over rice. 
>
>Later, I repeated the above meal, but marinated the tofu slices in tamari
>sauce and had somewhat better success. A third experiment with store-bought
>curry in addition helped even more.
>
>Anybody got any other ways to enhance the flavor of tofu?
>
> It looks firm enough to barbeque on a grill. Anyone ever try that?

I just learned the freezing trick a few weeks ago and it does work 
beautifully.  I had barbeque tofu (that's getting popular around here)
and was so pleased with the texture that I asked the waitperson how
they did it.  Last night I tried the same frozen/thawed tofu in a
yogurt curry sauce -- wonderful!

- Karyn
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Fat of the land (American) by Alan Durning from WorldWatch
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:53:24 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

>	In light of this, Tom, your flame is most unwarranted. If any, it is
>	Abhay who should get any feedback, and positive one at that, for
>	doing this service. In any case, I am certain you agree that it does 
>	improve the signal-to-noise ratio on this net, and thus should be
>	welcome, don't you? May I suggest that you retract your statement?

     Okay, I may have jumped on the wrong post. But I still hold to
my point. There's a few rec.food.veg'ers around here, mostly fairly new
guys, who seem to think that M. Traub _is_ rec.food.veg. And it annoys
the hell out of me.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
                 "I want to be Robin to Bush's Batman."
                  -- Vice President Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Fat of the land (American) by Alan Durning from WorldWatch
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:59:54 GMT

In article <60276@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>>
>>Thanks to Michael Traub for this article.
>
>     I'm getting really annoyed at these "Michael Traub posting via
>someone else" postings. If Mike want to post, he should do it himself.
>If not, there was a rec.food.veg before him, and they'll be one after
>him.

Mike does not want to post. There are a lot of people who like his
postings. I have therefore decided to post his postings until he 
backs off and starts posting again.

Please don't get annoyed unnecessarily. He is not posting via me.
I am trying to get him open his mouth.

Abhay



-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cansoori@athena.mit.edu (Christina Ansoorian)
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:10:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.112055.7292@ac.dal.ca> amacdona@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.144806.6930@cgrg.ohio-state.edu>, leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko) writes:
>> 
>> I've been a vegetarian for one year and have lately been somewhat
>> distressed by meat cravings!  My vegetarianism evolved through saving

>
>	I've been a vegetarian for about ten years, and at first, I would eat 
>the occasional piece of chicken, fish, or whatever as it went by.  But, these
>occasions became fewer and farther between, until none of the meat (barbecued 
>or not!) had any appeal all.  So don't worry about a craving every now & then
>- it's been my experience that the less you have, the less you want.  (This
>doesn't apply to chocolate.)
>	One theory I've read about is that eating a lot of sugar makes
>the body crave meat.
>

Strangely enough, I was just thinking tonight about how ever since I gave
up meat at the beginning of the summer, I have been losing my tolerance
for large amounts of sugar.  Hmmmm... does anyone know if there really
is a connection between sugar and meat consumptions?

Christina


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Red meat: too good a source of dietary iron?
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:09:30 GMT

The following article appeared on the second page of the Toronto Daily Star,
September 8, 1992.

	Study links iron in bloodstream to heart attacks

	DALLAS (Reuter) - Excess iron in the bloodstream may be more deadly than
	cholesterol or high blood pressure as a cause of heart disease, a new
	study concludes.
		It is iron in the bloodstream that accounts for a much higher
	rate of heart attack in men than in young women, whose iron levels 
	decline during menstruation, the study says.
		Dr. Jukka Salonen led a team of scientists at the University of
	Kuopio in Finland that studied 1,931 people for eight years to establish
	a link between iron in the bloodstream and the risk of heart attack.
		The results are to be published in the September issue of the
	American Heart Association journal >Circulation<, due out today.
		In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Jerome Sullivan, director
	of clinical laboratories at the Veterans Affairs Medical Centre in
	Charleston, S.C., writes that the study is "the first solid evidence"
	supporting his 1981 theory that stored iron is a strong risk factor for
	coronary heart disease.
		He also said that the study suggests that in men the level of
	stored iron may turn out to be a stronger risk factor than cholesterol
	or blood pressure levels or even diabetes.
		"The landmark study by Salonen's group in Finland has taken
	the first step in confirming the association of normal iron stores
	with increased risk of heart attack", Sullivan wrote.
		Red meat is common dietary source of iron.
		He said the study indicates that most women are safe from
	heart attack until after menopause.
		"When women stop menstruating, iron stores start accumulating
	quite rapidly," he said.  "They convert from a protected state to one
	in which their heart attack rate is much more similar to men's".
		The Finnish team found that for every 1 percent increase in
	serum ferritin, the form in which iron is stored in the body, there is
	a 4 percent increase in the risk of heart attack.
		Typical levels for young women are 25-50 micrograms of iron per
	litre of blood while typical levels for men are 100-150 micrograms per
	litre, Sullivan said.
		Sullivan also said there appears to be little evidence to 
	support the theory that an iron deficiency reduces the energy level of
	women.
		"Women lose their iron stores through menstruating for a large
	part of their adult lives, and they outlive men," Sullivan said.
		"There certainly are problems with iron deficiency, but if you
	avoid anemia and just have iron depletion, there's really no 
	demonstrable harm to that".

So, there you go.  I imagine stalewart steak 'n potatoe lovers will scoff
at the study, and I certainly wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on
this article, but I tend to think this is just another bit of evidence against
a fundamentally meat based diet.
From: kuan@taquito.engr.ucdavis.edu (Frank Kuan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Want veg roommate(s)
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:48:06 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering - University of California - Davis

Hi, I'm starting work in Milpitas in October (Northern SJ/mountainview/santa
clara region). I was wondering if any vegetarians out here on the net
are looking for or know any vegetarians looking to rent out a room
somewhere within a 20 minute drive of the intersection between 237
and 680. I thought about driving by one of the food co-ops out there
and checking out the bulletin boards. Is there an easier way to go about
this? Any advice/help appreciated. 

- Frank

obligatory veg food blah -> I tried two new flavors of Nature Burger
the past week. Barbeque and Pizza. Both were real tasty, especially
the pizza. But the pizza one has parmesan cheese...
  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: VEGAN: James' "Dirty Rice" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:34:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: rice, vegan


Thanks to Jamey B for the dirty rice recipe.

I've noticed that most bouillon cubes are very heavy with salt, which
I'd like to minimize. Any suggestions?

I have a number of recipes that use meat stock as an ingredient. Any
suggestions for substitutes?

Thanks;
David
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Why stop eating meat ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:18:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: sfjr@wam.umd.edu's message of 13 Sep 92 15:42:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.154217.14674@wam.umd.edu> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:

   In article <25780@castle.ed.ac.uk> david@castle.ed.ac.uk (D Mallon) writes:
   >Book Recommendation Wanted:
   >
   >I have just subscribed to this group, as I'd like to inform myself more
   >about the pros/cons of a vegitarian diet. Primarily I'd like to know what
   >benefits there are (if any); in order to decide if I should stop eating
   >dead animals.
   >
   >Can anyone point me in the direction of a good objective book on the 
   >subject?. (Pref not too heavy.)

   David-

   The best book on vegetarianism, --why one should eschew meat from all the
   angals, ie animal suffering, environmental issues, health issues, etc
   would have to be DIET FOR A NEW AMERICA, BY JOHN ROBBINS.  

David's in Scotland so may not be able to get that book - if you can't,
David, then try finding a copy of the excellent "Why You Don't Need Meat" by
Peter Cox, published by Thorson's.  In Edinburgh, you should be able to get a
copy in "Real Foods" or the church shop at the west end of Princes Street;
also check the bookshops.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Fat of the land (American) by Alan Durning from WorldWatch
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:42:29 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>
>Thanks to Michael Traub for this article.

     I'm getting really annoyed at these "Michael Traub posting via
someone else" postings. If Mike want to post, he should do it himself.
If not, there was a rec.food.veg before him, and they'll be one after
him.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
  "Time is just nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once."
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Do vega or vegi eat fries in McDonald or Kentucky?
Keywords: fries
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:13:25 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee) writes:

>I am a vegi, sometimes I wonder whether I could order a french fry in 
>MacDonald or Kentucky when I am out with some other friends because I 
>don't think the oil they use is "untaminated".

In Australia, McDonnalds (claims to) use vegetable oil.  "KFC" uses
chicken flavoured salt though (nearly made me vomit when I ate them).

I very rarely buy from those big burger places anyway.  Why would I
want to support a company than brings thousands of animals to their
deaths?


--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /      void (if removed)
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Iron and your heart: another article
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:08:10 GMT


I want to thank  red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  for typing in this
article on iron.  I found it very interesting.  I will have to look
up the new studies along with Lauffer's iron+cholesterol study.

I have to confess this iron hypothesis is new to me, and I really
try to keep up with the latest nutrition research.  It is always
so interesting how things change.  Vegetarians have been told
for years how they can't get enough protein or iron or calcium or...
Only a month ago we were being told on r.f.v what a good source of iron 
liver is.  Now we see that liver is a bad thing because it has _too
much_ iron.  My position has always been look at the epidemiological
evidence.  For most people the less animal products and the more
grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables the better.  The reasons
might be cholesterol or iron or iron+cholesterol or ..., but the
epidemiological facts remain true (real people eating real food).
No doubt animal agribusiness will now try to breed genetically
iron reduced animals....sigh. 

Anyway the purpose of this note is....the article stated:

> In a 1989 study, Harvard biochemist Randall Lauffer showed
> that while a country's average cholestrol reading may
> not correspond directly to its heart-attack rate, its combined
> cholesterol-and-iron count usually does.

I just noticed in the most recent issue of "Guide to Healthy
Eating" magazine that Dr. Randall Lauffer has a book entitled
_Iron Balance_ (318 pgs, $19.95).  I have not read or seen this
book, but the blurb says "The fascinating story of nutrition's
double-edged sword.  Dr. Lauffer is a Harvard biochemist who
describes iron's role in heart disease, cancer, and aging."
I thought this might be interesting to other r.f.v readers.

I also noticed that Dr. Lauffer along with Dr. T. Colin Campbell
and Dr. Dean Ornish (and others) are on the board of advisors of
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM).  PCRM is
the organization that publishes "The Guide to Healthy Eating".
I have nothing to do with this organization except I think
they do great work.  To contact them about the above book or
the magazine write:
  PCRM
  P.O. Box 6322
  Washington, DC  20015
  (202) 686-2210


Take care,

Ferrell Wheeler
wheeler@super.org
 


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Subject: Re: Fat of the land (American) by Alan Durning from WorldWatch
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:06:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.152818.9932@uoft02.utoledo.edu> vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>	I don't think Michael Traub is posting indirectly via Abhay. It is
>	Abhay who is doing it, of his own volition - as he sees it, and I 
>	concur, it is "important information for newcomers". 

Then let Abhay (or you) volunteer the responsibility of maintaining 
a FAQ list.  That would be genuinely helpful.  

This group has been so pleasant for the past week or so -- people 
poking their heads out and asking questions without fear of being 
criticized or censured; people freely posting recipes without being 
accused of pandering to those who read this group only to "snarf" 
recipes.  People seem to be comfortable here now. 

--Barbara
From: Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: new veg. magazine: Vegetarian Gourmet
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:43:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I've come across an interesting magazine called Vegetarian Gourmet.  Have any
of you seen it?  The autumn 1992 issue is only the third issue they've
published.

Vegetarian Gourmet is jam-packed with recipes.  The autumn issue has 113
recipes, compared to only 32 recipes in the September 1992 Vegetarian Times.
But then, VT publishes monthly and Vegetarian Gourmet only comes out 4 times a
year.

Vegetarian Gourmet has lots of tempting colour photos.   The issue I've got is
62 pages, with a handy glossary of food terms on the back page.  There's a
full-page recipe index, and an ingredient substitution chart as well.  Most of
the recipes seem to be vegan, although I did spot one recipe that called for
parmesan cheese.  Unfortunately, recipes aren't marked as Vegan, Ovo-Lacto,
etc, so vegans will have to read through each recipe to see if there are any
lurking lacto-ovo ingredients.

VG does include several articles, but the emphasis seems to be on recipes and
having lots of them.

 If you're interested in subscribing to Vegetarian Gourmet, write to P.O. Box
7641, Riverton, NJ 08077-9141, USA.  Subscriptions are $9.95 US for one year
and $17.95 for two years.  Add $4.00 per year for Canadian and foreign postage.
"Money back guarantee," they say.

I'm not affiliated with this magazine and won't make a penny if you subscribe.
(Rats!)

--

==========================================================================
Christine Code                 *
                               *  "A bear, however hard he tries,
Vancouver, B.C, CANADA         *   Grows tubby without exercise."
Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca  *                   -A.A. Milne
==========================================================================
From: cs311113@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs311113)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: England
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:33:49 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus

A quick request... I have a vegetarian friend going to England for 3 months 
this fall, and she could use any information on Vege resturants or food
places.  She will be relatively near London...

Thanks for any info.. :)

Paul.....
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:03:59 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: vegetarian diet


Mary Howard writes:

>What I most objected to the first two books was the total lack of
>soy products for the vegan diet. For most vegans, soy products (and
>other legumes such as black beans, garbanzos, etc.), form the basis
>of their diet. This use of soy products and other legumes, in combination
>with grains such as brown rice, whole wheat bread, tortillas, and 
>pasta, satisfies the amino acid combinations that I understand to 
>be important to a balanced vegan diet. Frances Moore Lappe, of 
>Diet for a Small Planet, has stated that grains and legumes do not have 
>to occur at the same meal- within the same day is fine to gain the
>protein advantage of the food. 

Unless one is pregnant or lactating, I think that soy products and
legumes are completely unnecessary for a vegan diet at least in terms of
protein/amino acid intake and that amino acid combining is completely
unnecessary as well.  

Let us not forget that we only need 4 percent of our total calories in
the form of protein.  

Even if plant protein is less utilizable (this is debatable) one would
still have to try very hard, but eating potato chips and apples I
imagine, to be protein deficient. 

The only reason I eat tofu, soybeans, soymilk, and walnuts is because I
happen to like the way they taste.  (And I'm cutting down on the tofu
and walnuts as they are particularly high in fat.  Soymilk I only use
for breakfast cereals.)

Dave

Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT for so long.  You feel
sleepy.  Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink.  Close your
eyes.  The opinions stated above are yours.  You can't imagine why you
ever felt otherwise.


Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:36:06 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET


>As for calcium, your daily requirement is larger than you could put
>easily in a multivitamin.  It's not a trace mineral--women need about
>800mg/day, 1200mg/day when they're pregnant or lactating, and men about
>400mg/day.

Vegans almost always need less calcium than the general population
because they aren't consuming the excess of protein that most people
are.  There are some studies reprinted in Diet For A New America which
exemplify this.

Dave

Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT for so long.  You feel
sleepy.  Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink.  Close your
eyes.  The opinions stated above are yours.  You can't imagine why you
ever felt otherwise.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cecil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jonah Scheib)
Subject: Re: soy tempeh and corn masa
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 20:06:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.084141.18184@athena.mit.edu>, cansoori@athena.mit.edu (Christina Ansoorian) writes:
|> Well, I just bought a package of soy tempeh and a package of corn masa.
|> Does anyone have any ideas or good recipes for either?
|> 
|> The tempeh has no cooking directions.  Can I crumble it up, and make
|> burgers out of it?  Am I better off just cutting it in chunks? 

For burgers, I prefer simply to cut it in burger-size chunks and fry in a
small amount of oil, adding some vinegar and soy sauce for seasoning.

Tempeh may be at its best if you cut it in fairly small pieces and let it
sit in a marinade for at least 1/2 hour.  A good sample marinade might be:

soy sauce/tamari/shoyu/take your pick!
vinegar (flavored vinegars, especially from red wine, work very nicely)
garlic powder
ginger
cayenne pepper
other spices to your excellent taste!

This is good in stir fries, stews, tempeh a l'orange, etc.

Basting and grilling is also tasty!

I've also been known to eat tempeh plain, just heated up in the
microwave, but I'm not proud of it :-)!

cecil
cecil@leland.stanford.edu
a great lover of tempeh