HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:20:19 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: child care tax credit
              27 Aug 1992 09:24:26 -0400 from <KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU>

Hi Kerry:

The child care tax credit isn't all that's wrong with the tax system.
My mother is in a wheelchair, and someone has to stay with her most
of the day, has to feed her, etc.  She is better than she was, but this
story is about the year she had her stroke.

That year, I investigated the possibility of my parents getting a tax
credit for the care she recieves, since the short version of "what else
is out there" in my tax booklet indicated that there might be such a
thing.

I discovered that, if a person is not (essentially) under 24-hour a
day care, 7 days a week, they don't qualify.  In fact, if you miss *one*
day out of the year (like if you weren't confined at that point, say
January 1), you don't get a dime.

The tax system is ridiculous, and what's more, the instructions were
written by Klingons and translated into English by people for whom it
is a fourth or fifth language (like lawyers).  Why don't they just say
"write number X in box A," instead of making it so complex and making
you flip back and forth between page 2 and page 32 and your stupid
W-2 forms?

I think the same people who write SAS manuals are in charge of tax forms.
Once you go beyond the E-Z form, you need a CPA to get it right.  (And,
of course, every year, they do that nifty study that proves that if you
call the IRS 50 different times with the same question, you get 50
different answers, and all of them are wrong.  I always wonder how they
ultimately decide what the right answer is, anyway.)

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:54:24 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: democratic platform

Howdy, partner :)

>Regarding the health care issue:
(stuff deleted)
I don't have the original any more, but if you're interested in the
Heritage Foundation's recommendations, and you've got the time for some
library work . . .

Some months ago (it would have been before June), Michael Kinsley discussed
the program in one of his TNR editorials.  From what I remember of the
article itself, and some coverage that showed up around the same time, his
article describes the program quite well, and discusses some of the
advantages/disadvantages *he* sees with it.

Wish I could help more :)
Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: Order restored
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:22:37 GMT

I never realized before how much fun this could be!

linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET> writes:
>poor jimbo.
>when's visiting day?
>who wants to bake the cake?
>who wants to donate the file for the cake?
>who wants to place their vanity license plate orders?
>maybe jimbo will write a book about this.
>(better spell my name right)
>-linda

Actually, I'm gonna pass on the book offers... I've got an even
better gig in mind.  I'm gonna start my own religion.

It's all about this dead guy see.  Only he isn't dead.  I mean,
he was, but he got better!  He was a God.  No, wait, a human.  Oh,
hell, let's let him be both at once!

But he isn't _the_ God.  There is a _God_ god, too.  He's the father.
Only he didn't fornicate with the son's mother.  Or... well, hmm...

And there's this ghost fellow too.  Can't say too much about him, though.

Is this a polytheistic religion?  No!  We only have 1 god.  And
we have 3 gods.

Oh, well,  the main thing is that you all ought to send me some money.
And we can grab some 2000 year old myths from a barbaric sexist
racist prerational theocratic culture and elevate their most vicious
moral rules into practice.

And if people don't agree with us?  We will throw them in jail!

--Jimbo

p.s. Oh, yeah... but we still will love everybody.  


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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:36:59 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET

 *** Resending note of 08/28/92 07:31

 >Last night the Quayles were interviewed on Prime Time Live (for
 >you, Robert, that would be during the prime time :-).  They were
 >asked the same hypothetical question again.  Mike Wallace asked
 >Marilyn, "So your child would bring the pregnancy to term, huh?"
 >(I have to say these are not direct quotes but I am doing the best
 >that I can.)  She said, "if it does not affect her HEALTH and we
 >should also consider her MENTAL health."

 >--KAT

 I agree, she was probably playing politics.

 IN MY OPINION:
 *************

 I, and I believe the majority of pro-lifers, are willing to accept
 abortion in cases of RAPE, INCEST and LIFE of the mother.  This is
 no way means that we can justify or condone our exceptions.  The use
 of abortion as a form of birth control must be stopped.  If these 3
 exceptions will help to accomplish that end, I willingly support them.

 I do not think MENTAL HEALTH should be a factor.  If you're stressed,
 take a powder.  The life of the child should be the foremost concern of
 all involved.  If we have to deal with a certain amount of inconvenience
 or stress, so be it.  Abortion in EVERY SINGLE CASE is murder.  Surely
 we can do something.  Aren't 20 million dead babies enough?  How many
 more must die to satisfy our selfishness?

 ---Robert
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:04:52 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: democratic platform
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:11:43 -0400 <SPRG0002@TULSAJC> said:

> from the government according to a set schedule for services rendered,
> >instead of gouging you or your insurer for whatever they can get.

> As for private practice, your claims of gouging are mostly baseless.  With
> hospitals it may be true.


Gouging doesn't occur as much by hospitals et al as one might think.  The
practice of DRGs is seeing to this.  So rather than get shafted by
hospitals, it's by the insurance industry.  DRG is Diagnostic Related
Group.  When your reason for being in the hospital is diagnosed, a code
is assigned and various characteristics for that DRG are registered:
# of days as an inpatient, drugs, etc. etc.  Simplified, you are
admitted for appendicitis.  The code for appendicitis may say "six days,
such-and-such drugs, x-units of care by a surgeon, y-units of care by
someon else, etc." and that is what the hospital is paid.  No more,
no less.  If complications develop, add'l DRGs could be added to your
case.

Years ago, hospitals were almost on their own to scam what they could
and as theft programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, etc. were increasingly
paying more and more, hospitals lost control for charges.  The ratio
of uncontrolled:controlled costs has been changing over the last few
years and many expect it to end up being 90%:10% (DRG:negotiated)
or higher before the turn of the century.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 09:29:00 EDT
From:         the valley of the fuzz-tone guitar <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      mamas don'let your babies grow up ta be christians
              (chipmunks)(alvin!)

(Sorry about the title, but it's been rattling inside my mind ever since Kai
and Andy F. discussed (seriously, even) what a cowboy really is.)

Some observations on the goings on this week:

The Elvis-impersonator following Clinton around was, I think, hired by the
Republican Victory Committee (or Coalition, or Congolomeration, or Cabaret,
or something like that), the same guys who dreamt up the Willie Horton ad
and were going to set up a 900 number for callers to get the latest Clinton
scandal.

Since Andy insists that the Democrats are intent on behaving like their
caricatures of Republicans, it occurs to me to wonder who some Democrats have
hired to follow Bush around.  Could it be the Invisible Man, handing out
invisible copies of Bush's domestic agenda?  Could it be a Harry Truman
impersonator, telling people he has no idea who that shmuck on the podium
is?  Could it be Johnny Paycheck?  The mind boggles. :)

Another interesting thing about that abortion poll is that, while it reveals
a variety of opinions on abortion, it also uncovered a deep consensus among
Americans of almost every creed, race, belief, gender, age, geographic
location and sexual orientation, that Travis is more of a moron than we
heretofore suspected.  And you thought polls were unreliable.  Hah.  :)

A discussion group on usenet that diehard abortion debaters might be interested
in: talk.politics.abortion.  No, I'm not trying to stop you from discussing it,
just giving you an additional area to explore.  Have a ball.  You're welcome.

Speaking of abortion, in a followup to the recent "overturning" of the
abortion restrictions law here in Michigan, Atty. Gen. Frank Kelly has declined
to appeal the ruling, saying it's up to the legislature to reformulate the
law.

Here in East Lansing (aka the Center of the Universe (tm)) the first debate
is just about three weeks away.  The rumors that Ross Perot might crash the
debate are strongly being denied, although Gov. John ('did I really come across
as a goob on national tv?') Engler is reported to be strongly concerned,
causing him to start talking like Jim Nabors. :)

Speaking of Perot, he's coming out with a new rap album in the near future.
Here's a sample of the lyrics:

I've got big BUCKS and I sure can lie,
you grass-roots supporters can't deny,
that when a guy like me gets on the tv,
you're time and money's gonna get sprung!
-Ross Perot, from the song "H.R.'s Gotta Yack"  :)

Me, I've got Bad Brains on the stereo now.  Ren n' Stimpy's gonna be on in
the evening.  Catcha later,
Gary W. Olson                 "Elvis is everywhere, Elvis is everything,
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU   Elvis is everybody, Elvis is still the King."
67 days and counting down...   - Mojo Nixon, "Elvis is Everywhere"
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:28:21 CDT
From:         "The Truth (some assembly required)" <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Rule No. 8

>Courtesy of Jamie, here is Robert's Rule #8.

>I refuse to give any justification for my positions, because then
>I would be "boxed in."

>Or even a better version.

>If I  told anyone what the justification is, they might find something
>wrong with it!

Not to defend the indefensable (or even to get within the line of fire),
I saw a quote this summer that goes something like "Decide, but never
explain your decision, for your decision might be correct but your
explaination wrong."

If I find an attribution, I might post it. I might also keep you
in suspense.

>--KAT

Dave
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
Stupid  Pathetic: Choose your favorite adjective
Wallow in your addictions
Die for your obsessions
              --Love, Calvin, "The Truth (Some Assembly Required)"
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:05:36 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: another convention

linda:

It means that nobody in their right mind would believe they could
find somebody worth dating in Atlantic City.

12, huh?

Anybody need a jury?

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:04:00 CDT
From:         Pam Leader <SYSPL@UOKMVSA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gore on the Environment

I disagree with censorship.  but.... it brings to mind all the
"inconclusive" studies that have already been done on the degradation
of the environment which Reagan and Bush have held up as evidence
that "more studies need to be done" and "we don't want to act too
hastily". Meanwhile the planet is turning into a trash heap.
It is difficult if not impossible to fight a clean political battle.
The GOP folks have made it clear that they will use any tripe they
can get their hands on to justify inaction on domestic or
environmental problems.  At this point(early a.m.) I can't imagine
what sort of "news" could in any way offset the realities of
environmental degradation that we have been bombarded with over the
past 15+ years.  However, I wouldn't   underestimate the creativity
of those seasoned GOP warriors to find some way to credit Bush
with eliminating the environmental problems between now and November.
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:37:00 CDT
From:         Pam Leader <SYSPL@UOKMVSA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The City on the Hill

" '94 "
Poor Quayle.....he's been working so hard on his spelling lately and
now people are quoting his math!!!
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:21:13 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Speech and Evolution

Kerry,

>If the Supreme Court had not made its recent ruling, would you also
>favor allowing public colleges to make/enforce speech codes?

Hm. Well, I'm somewhat ambivalent, but I suppose on balance, no,
I would distinguish between public and private colleges.

I do think there is something to be said for having public
colleges experiment in the same way private ones can, and
I also think that speech codes, as actually implemented,
are not really very oppressive.
But, in the end I think the first amendment argument against
them is a sound one.
----

>  One thing to bear in mind when you think about biological roots of
> cultural phenomena is that biological evolution (the kind that
> would affect the genetic basis of various behaviors) is *very*
> slow.  Cultural evolution (the kind that affects things like
> values, morals, laws, etc.) is *very* rapid.

Well, you're the expert.

I'd add a couple of caveats, though.

First, "slow" and "rapid," as evolutionists use those terms,
should be read "VERY VERY VERY slow" and "very slow." For
an evolutionist, a thousand years is the blink of a geological
eye.
Second, I don't think we can confidently assert claims about
how rapidly significant evolutionary change occurs. There's
a lot of disagreement about this stuff, isn't there?

>I would argue that, starting at least at the beginning of
>agriculture, the two have become increasingly separated.

Well, could be. I really think views about this area are
highly speculative.

Jamie
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:17:57 EST
From:         STEVE FULTZ <IGJF400@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: State Polls

It varies from poll to poll but I have seen Bush leading in most of the
western states and Florida.  I would think that he is still leading in
Indiana.  While Bush is behind in the Polls he appears to be ahead in
states locked up.  Clintion has vary few if any besides Arkansas locked up.

You also have to be careful about local polls because they vary in quality.
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:02:40 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is family values?

Peter:

I did not include "tolerance" because as we use it today (as synonymous
with license for others), it is not a virtue.

I used compassion, because I meant compassion.  Compassion says,
"what you are doing is wrong and it would be best for you to stop,
but I still love you."  Tolerance says, "Do whatever you like and
I won't say a word and I will pretend that I love you."  (Because if
you really love someone you want the best for them.)

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:31:54 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Order restored

>From:         "Robert sprg0002@tulsajc.bitnet" <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>

> > >Mistress Kerry, god does not give us rules of logic. God is bound
> > >by rules of logic. Cf. St. Thomas. (You need this one to defend
> > >against the Problem of Evil, so said Thomas.)
>
> > "G"od is not bound by anything but your personal (lack of) faith.
>
> > >"G"olly, Robert, if someone is bound by my personal lack of faith,
> > >that is quite a limitation. My personal lack of faith is boundless.
>
> As usual, you have managed to miss the point.

As usual, you are unable to state what you think the point is.

> > >In any case, if I have to listen to some authority on god's relation
> > >to logic, I think I'll go with St. Thomas before I listen to "R"obert.
>
> If St. Thomas actually said that "G"od was bound by logic, then he was
> wrong.  Sorry if that bothers you.

Again, if I have to listen to an authority (and St. Thomas actually
gave arguments!), I guess I'll continue to believe St. Thomas rather
than Robert. Sorry if that bothers you.

I wonder why Robert thinks he knows more about god than St. Thomas
did. I guess we'll never know.

Jamie
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:37:44 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: meaningless phrases

 *** Resending note of 08/31/92 14:23

 > "Let's try education"
 > "Don't you think education will solve ..."
 > "We can overcome this through education"

 >>No doubt that these phrases are meaningless to the under-educated.  It
 >>should be noted here that bad education is just as detrimental as no
 >>education at all.  But there is no substitute for knowledge.

 They are equally meaningless when applied to a group of educators.  As
 doctors make lousy patients, educators make lousy students.

 ---Robert
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 10:40:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: RE:Re: did i send the wrong stuff?

>Robert,
>        You didn't really have to repeat the contents of the personal
>message on the list. A yes/no kind of answer was enough.
>                                                Gilbert

um, gilbert,
robert didn't repeat the message. what he sent abt. the jello was a joke.
sorry abt. the confusion.
-linda
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:06:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: i am so dismayed

>(which is known as "home scrap"), they need to get more scrap from the
>market place. Interesting, huh ?

yes, it is interesting. would the can my chickpeas came in be "home scrap"?
what does your company do? and has the push to recycle done anything substan-
tial to lower the costs of production and maybe down the line, the cost to the
consumer?

>Dunstan

-linda
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:51:32 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Deadly Force

On deadly force, I recall my dad, who used to be
a police officer in Louisiana, joking about the
following scenario:

You are at home at night and you hear a sound at the
glass door to your patio.  You take your gun and go
to investigate.  You see an intruder about to enter and
you shoot.  The intruder falls back out of the house.
In order for you to not go to jail, you have to pull the
body forward so that the dead body is within the house.

Nothing more needs be done and you are innocent.

Json
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:08:56 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Nattering Nabobs

From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>

> On the Florida question:

> Bush sent help *as soon as* the governor of Florida *requested* it.
> He could not legally do so before then.

It heard on TV that the law DOES allow Bush sending help but
traditionally the federal government has always waited for
the request to be made by the state in question first.  But
then again you cannot trust everything that you read/hear.

At any rate, I find this finger pointing pointless.  If the
governor really asked immediately, why didn't he ask again and
again, and then go to the press and announce that he has asked
for help but none has arrived (remember it took about 3 days
before something was done).  And if the governor did not ask
early enough (what is the explanation here, that he forgot?
or that the local government was in disarray?) why couldn't
the federal government make the inquiry/call to the state
government and reminding them that help is ready to go and all
they need is a request.

> --Missy P 2 B

--KAT
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