From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: That garden of eden "thang"
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:07:43 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep3.155710.4832@oclc.org> jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff) writes:
>From: jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff)
>Subject: Re: That garden of eden "thang"
>Date: 3 Sep 92 15:57:10 GMT

>sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>: jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff) writes:
>: 
>: >Why didn't God create Adam and Eve with enough will-power 
>: >to withstand the temptation?  He knew when he created them
>: >that they would fail.  What were the chances that they would
>: >fail?  50/50?  Why not 75/25?  Why not 99.9/0.1?  Is it more
>: >than just a matter of will-power?  If so, what?  Why is God
>: >passing the buck on this?
>: 
>:   the standard answer is that for god to create us with authentic
>: free will, we'd have to truly be able to choose good or evil.  otherwise
>: it's like a parent saying to a child, now you have a choice to put
>: your hand on the stove burner or not.  but if you touch the burner
>: you will surely be burnt.  but then the parent does not have the stove
>: turned on.  that's what it would be like if we had the will power to
>: resist evil...it wouldn't be a viable choice.

>It seems that you are saying that the Fall was inevitable.
>What is the difference between punishing a puppy for eternity
>for messing on the carpet and punishing humanity for eternity
>for succumbing to something equally inevitable?  Is eternal
>torment reasonable punishment for performing the inevitable?
>-- 
>Jeff Young

>Opinions expressed are mine alone.

"Compared to infinity, all finites are equal" -- Pascal.

Concerning eternal consequences for inevitable acts there is perhaps an 
even more difficult and fundamental problem, and that is: How can an 
infinite consequence be metted out for a finite act undertaken with finite 
and imperfect comprehension of their consequences?  I have 60-80 years to 
get it right here in mortality; after that, bamm! I will suffer eternally 
for these actions.  But how can anything you do in a finite time justly 
result in a punishment that last throughout the everlasting eternities 
future?  Or, imagine taking an exam. You have 3 hours to complete the exam. 
If you get a score below, say, 70, out of a possible 100, you're done for 
for the rest of your earthly life [you'll be locked in prison, we'll say.]
Not too reasonable.  But that's a finite time and a finite consequence; and 
the exam also was probably administered by very imperfect examiners.  What I'
m talking about is an exam that lasts 60-80 years, and if you get a 70 (or 
maybe even anything less than 100, say 99.9), then that's the end of the 
story for you, and that test is administered by an infinitely perfect and 
just being.  Any thoughts out there?

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