From: mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus)
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Hypocrisy
Organization: Homebrew Virtual Reality Labs
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:00:06 GMT

JIM GRAHAM (graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu) wrote:
: In article <342@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, sgast+@pitt.edu (Susan Garvin) writes...
: >In article <1992Dec8.191700.19308@afit.af.mil> wbralick@afit.af.mil (Will Br
alick) writes:
: >#
: >#In article <294@blue.cis.pitt.edu> sgast+@pitt.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
: >#| Any choice the pregnant woman wants to make.
: >#
: >#Any choice?  About anything?  Really?  You wouldn't care to narrow that 
: >#focus a tad, would you?  What is the policy of the AMA or the thinking 
: >#in medical ethics about voluntary amputations, for example?  Are such 
: >#even permitted?  
: > 
: >Any choice about her pregnancy.  I made the mistake of believing that
: >you were bright enough to follow context.  My mistake.
: 
: Ah, but what about voluntary amputations.  Suppose I'm a productive
: member of society, and due to an unfortunate turn of events, I end up
: with a leg that no longer works, and in fact, produces a significant
: amount of chronic pain... so much so that I can no longer work, nor
: can I be the husband or father I once was.
: 
: In short, I can no longer earn a living, nor can I be as _responsible_
: as I once was.
: 
: So, I'm left with sucking blood from a welfare system (and perhaps
: Social Security), just to eat, BECAUSE I can find no surgeon that can
: see things AS I SEE THEM, and refuses to give me a stump that produces
: hopefully less pain, and will fit in an artificial leg, allowing me once 
: again, some semblance of "normalcy", and returns me to a _productive_ life.
: 
: Shouldn't this be a matter of my "choice", considering the alternative
: cost to the rest of society (at least those that give in to extortionists
: and pay taxes)?
: 
: And what about any "pain" that I may feel afterward?  Is it not possible
: that many people that have abortions suffer some type of emotional
: "pain" later on?
: 
: My point, which I hope is understandable, is this...
: 
: My understanding of this whole "choice" thing is that a women should have
: absolute rule over her own body (which by the way, I agree with).
: 
: So, why shouldn't I have the same absolute rule over mine?  
: 
: You really can't argue that in one case the person is causing themselves
: permanent and irrevocable disability.  That may also be true of the 
: women who chooses to abort, although it may be emotional rather than
: physical.
: 
: However, there are other "precedents" in our society that would make this
: an inequality.
: 
: Voluntary or "elective" amputation is a good example, I think.  What's more,
: one could argue about whether or not my leg that is amputated
: is a "human being".  It should be obvious to most, with NO twisting of
: terminology, that cutting off a leg is not the end of a human being
: (ie mine), but aborting a child in the womb simply IS.
: 
: There is no difference in terms of survivability between me, the amputee,
: or the mother, who had her child aborted.  We both are still alive.
:
: My leg isn't, and the child isn't either.  But one at least had the
: _potential_ of a _thinking_, sentient human being, whether one chooses
: to call it a human being in or out of the womb.

I have no problem with you cutting off your leg in such a situation.  Who has 
been telling you that you can't get such an amputation?
-- 
Mike McAngus 			 | As if I needed Another time consuming hobby.
(mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org)		 | 
The Truth is still the Truth	 | This Post exploits illiterates.
Even if you choose to ignore it. | 
Xref: sparky alt.rush-limbaugh:12328 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:10753