From: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul J. Schinder)
Subject: Re: Bicycle Paths
Reply-To: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:03:20 GMT

In <1992Aug12.144724.26157@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:


>I just want to say this: In most European countries, gasoline prices
>are on the order of 3-4 times as expensive as they are in the U.S.
>Part of this is due to much higher national (read "federal") taxes on
>gasoline.

>The European experience may not be directly applicable to the U.S.,

Almost certainly not.  Just look at a map.  The US is much bigger than
any European country, and has a lower population density.

>but I don't think inflation and unemployment are running rampant in
>Europe.  Also, while this may not be directly related, my experience
>shows that generally speaking European countries do a much better job
>at public transportation and bicycle access than is done in the U.S.

Hmm, I'm not so sure.  I've been to three European countries (Denmark,
France, England), each one for about a week.  I didn't bicycle in any
of them, but my favorite way of seeing a new city is to walk
everywhere, so I certainly was out and about and observing.  I used
public transportation in both France and England.  With my limited
experience, I'm certainly no expert on any of these countries, but my
impression was that the "Europe worship" so often seen among cyclists
and mass transit advocates was certainly overblown.

First, bicyclists in Copenhagen were definitely second class citizens
in spite of the presence of bike lanes on the major roads.  In order
to turn left, they had to wait for at least one light (even if the
original was green, the way to turn left seemed to be to ride to the
opposite corner and wait for the light to change on the cross road.)
I didn't see anyone make a vehicular left turn there.  In France about
all I saw in Paris were the separate signals for cyclists at some
intersections; they seem to work well enough.  In England, Cambridge
had inferior and dangerous "bike paths" just like the US, as well as a
road or two with no motor vehicles allowed.  As for motorist
attitudes, since I wasn't riding I couldn't really tell.  And didn't
someone post here within the last few months that in some European
country (fuzzy memory has it as either Germany or the Netherlands)
cyclists must legally yield to cars in all circumstances, so they were
legally second class?

British Rail struck me as about the same as Amtrak in quality.  I had
a Brit Rail pass and went all over the place on the trains.  Certainly
in most places in the US you can't do that, but in the Eastern
Corridor (Washington-Baltimore-Philadelphia-New York), Amtrak and
local railroads provide similar types of services (although you won't
be able to use a pass to go from one to the other).  The TGV in France
was one of the best train rides I've ever taken, but the lesser trains
in France that I took to get to Les Houches were about on par with
Amtrak.  Some trains in both France and Britain were as cramped and
uncomfortable as any SEPTA (Philadelphia area) commuter.  I didn't
take trains in Denmark.

Metro in Paris certainly didn't live up to it's reputation.
Washington's Metro is still the best subway I've ever been on.  Paris
Metro and London's Underground reminded me more of Philadelphia.
Buses in Denmark were nothing special, except for the presence of
luggage areas, which are almost never seen in the US on regular buses.

As far as the effect of higher gas taxes, Paris was *the* most auto
polluted city I've ever been in (and I've spent time in the LA area),
and I certainly didn't notice any lack of cars on the road.

>...Joakim
>--
>Joakim Karlsson            | aviator@athena.mit.edu
>Flying Fanatic in Training | Air: PP-ASEL  CAP: Freedom 110 Mobile  FCC: N1JHW
>                 "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
>                And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings"
--
--------
Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles