HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:38:00 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Suppose there were an Epileptic Culture?

(I posted something like this a year or so ago, but since the list's
readership has grown since then, perhaps it bears repeating.)

Suppose you learned that your children, toddlers, have a severe form
of epilepsy.  With medication, you might be able to control their
seizures, to the point that they could hold down a regular job as
adults.  But because of their disorder's severity, the only medication
available doesn't always work, and it has painful side effects; your
doctor may have to resort to brain surgery.  It will take years before
you can tell what their chances are for success in mainstream life.

After doing more research on epilepsy, you discover that a large
fraction of severely epileptic adults consider themselves members of
an "Epileptic Culture" (hereafter, EpC).  In EpC, epilepsy is not
considered a disability; like the ancient Greeks, people in EpC
believe that epileptic seizures are messages from God.  EpC people do
not believe in doing anything to control their seizures.  They either
live off Social Security, or look for jobs where frequent epileptic
seizures would not hurt their performance (e.g., compiling book
indexes at home, instead of factory work around heavy machinery).  The
more "radical" EpC people believe that to die in a seizure is the
finest death anyone could hope for.

To what extent would you allow the mores of EpC determine how you
will care for your epileptic children?
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
From: U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: My bio...
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:44:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU

If the list I saw was any indication, the people who are blind
call themselves blinks.  BUT, this is a derogatory term if used
by someone who isn't blind.
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 71302.3005@compuserve.com
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:18:22 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Weitbrecht/Baudot TDD --- ASCII PC communication

I have read the long letter about TDD-PC communications even though I am
familiar with the subject.
One thing striked me in particular.  All those kludges for allowing a PC
to talk Weitbrecht/Baudot - work on obsolete PCs (such as CoCo, VIC20
or Commodore 64), or use ancient modems (I wonder whether Novation is still
in business with their AppleCAT modem!).
(I am not belittling the utility of VIC20 and Commodore 64 - with the proper
modem, they are the best TDD-PCs from standpoint of time from turn on until
you are ready to communicate, and I use both for this purpose - with ASCII
modems of course - this is Israel not USA).

Nowadays there are new marvels such as 'Sound Blaster', 'Windows 3.1',
'80386', '80486' and the like.
There are even FAX cards and if I am not mistaken - also cards which function
like answering machines.
It should not be a big deal for someone to program one of those marvellous
cards which has a FCC-approved phone line interface - to recognize the
tones of Weitbrecht modems, and to generate the same tones as needed.
Then your PC will be able to function as a super TDD which obeys the Weitbrecht
standard.  If you plug in also a standard 9600BPS modem card then you will
be able to enjoy all worlds.

Let's keep our eyes awake and be aware of the progressive technology around
us!
                                                           --- Omer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Re:      Rosen Reacts to 60 Minutes (from TFA.dis at Gallaudet)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:40:22 GMT

In article <01GRDXOCPEH490OZMC@gallua.bitnet> "STEVEN T. HARDY--GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY" <12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET> writes:
>
>From NAD president Roz Rosen:
>
>----------
> [... statement from Ms. Rosen re: her appearance on 60 Minutes...]
> [... removed in the interests of bandwitdh and brevity        ...]

I am very glad this statement by Ms. Rosen was posted.

I am a hearing person, whose only contact with Deaf Culture is by
assosciation with my wife, who is a (hearing) interpreter in the DC area.

I do not wish to address the pros/cons of CI here.  I only want to register
the impressions that I have recieved from Ms. Rosen's appearance on 
60 Minutes.

I was quite put off by her apparent attiudes on CI and the hearing
community in general.  This impression was shared by a number of people
I talked with - both hearing and deaf, and many well aquainted with
issues relating to the deaf community.  Ms. Rosen came off as a militant
and extremeist; her remarks seemed more harmful than helpful to any
exchange of ideas and opinions between various groups.

It appears from Ms. Rosen's comments posted on the net that 60 minutes
at best exaggerated, if not outright misrepresented, her (and NAD's) 
position on CI and related technologies.
 
While Ms. Rosen and I may (or may not) have differences of opinion on
these or other subjects, I feel from her posted remarks that she is much 
more open to these differences than was portrayed on 60 Minutes.  I believe
the producer of the segment did her and NAD a severe disservice, and hope
they will be taken to task for this.

-- 
Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |
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Return-Receipt-To: wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:58:52 EST
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Subject:      Re: Article on TDD's from HEX
              "Jennifer Barber" at Nov 18, 92 11:15 am

Just to let everyone know -- Dick Barth's email address has
changed.  It is now:
     barth@nodc2.nodc.noaa.gov

                                Bill McGarry

UUCP:       {oliveb, uunet}!bunker!wtm
INTERNET:   wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
BITNET:     l-hcap@ndsuvm1.bitnet
Fidonet:    The Handicap News BBS (141/420)   1-203-337-1607
            (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:58:08 EST
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Question from a hearie...
              20 Nov 92 05:45:25 +0000. <9211200606.AA13085@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Angeli:

What is the number for your BBS? Maybe I can give it a call..

Adam Skwersky
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:59:27 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         christine Murphy <AAAEM006@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      gallaudet students

From: christine Murphy

Hi Michelle:
            In order to send e-mail to Gallaudet students you have to know
who you want to send to example 11BCOOK@GALLUA.BITNET, I tried to send a
message to a friend over there and it didn't work for some reason, so if anyone
 else has any ideas please let me kno!  Good Luck!  Sincerely Christine Murphy
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:47:13 CST
From:         dgpappas@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject:      Codas (hearing culture vs deaf culture)

Dear Roy --

I got your message from Darlene Prickett that she got from you or "Eagle"
(quite a while ago) want wanted to respond to your questions is it possible
for a coda to live with someone who has never been exposed to deaf culture?

Well, my immediate answer is yes (I do), but it is something that takes
alot of hard work and understanding from a non-coda.  Let me explain.

I am a coda - only child - and have been married for 3 1/2 years.  My hubby
is great about my deaf parents (who are ill and elderly) and puts alot of
energy into giving me support for their needs.  He is also supportive of my
involvement in CODA (the organization), and I am very involved.  But,
questions have arose about the time spent with codas or deaf friends.  For
example, he sometimes forgets why I want to spend my time face to face with
friends as opposed to talking on the phone (the need for "must see face" -
a part of deaf culture) is something that took getting use to. Or why it
takes 20 minutes to leave the house after saying "goodbye". It took alot of
work -- FOR THE BOTH OF US -- to understand each others' hearing/deaf
world.  As in any relationship, to understand each others' world does take
work FROM BOTH PARTIES.

My hubby was never directly exposed to deaf culture, however when I met him
he did know the difference between ASL and English.  As a matter of fact I
was shocked and felt threatened that he knew that there was a difference -
my thought was "how could this hearing man know about "MY" world!"  My
husband even went on to take sign language classes on his own initiative so
that he could "communicate" with my parents.  While he is not the greatest
- he can communicate in ASL with my parents.

Anyway, I realize that I am one of the lucky ones.  So, here is my story -
hope I didn't bore you.

I'd be interested to hear what the other stories are -- my e-mail address
is "dgpappas@casbah.acns.nwu.edu".


Dee Pappas
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:38:31 EDT
From:         EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: gallaudet students

Chris-

I am not sure if this will work but try two things-

send to 11bcook@gallua.gallaudet.edu (not sure if this will make a difference)

or

12bcook@gallua.gallaudet.edu  (sometimes students have 12, 13 or even 14 before
userid instead of 11)

or you could give me the persons name and I can go into my account at gally
and check to see  if that person is a user and what exactly their account id
is.

Hope this helps,

Elaine
From: distrib@TURING.TORONTO.EDU (CSRI Distribution Manager)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Computer Applications
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:15:35 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hi,

I'm currently working on a research project involving the use of
software applications in the teaching of deaf children and adolescents
and am wondering if anyone out there can tell me what kind of software
they have found most helpful for their students (for teachers) or
children (for parents).  I would also be interested in knowing what
you believe to be the most useful educational applications.

Thanks for your input.

Chris
distrib@turing.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: 60 mins story
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:50:38 GMT

In article <01GR9BL0I7KW8WX3DF@ITHACA.BITNET> ALOOES1@ITHACA.BITNET writes:
>      I'm not deaf, or hard of hearing, but if I were and I had the chance to
>hear anything at all, I think I would jump at the chance. If, like you say, a
>person was given the chance to hear I'm sure it wouldn't just filter in

If you were born deaf, you simply don't miss what you never experienced in
the first place. But I gotta admit that if I suddenly gained hearing, one
of the first things I probably will do is go to a crowded mall and listen
to people, to see what "hearies" *really* talk like. (I know, I know...many
hearing friends told me that 95% of all spoken conversations is meaningless.
But that's like trying to explain to a blind person that a white wall is
boring to look at, but the blind person would still like to be able to see
the white wall to know what it *looks* like. Does this make sense?)

But I still fail to see what is the big deal about hearing "environmental
sounds". I guess that only people who became deaf late in their lives
miss those kinds of sounds -- hearing people take them for granted and
Deaf people simply don't give a care.

However, I can tell ya that I'm still surrounded by "environmental
vibrations" (And I can't tune out many vibrations, at least not until
the day when I finally master the art of levitating myself in mid-air. :-) 
For example, I don't need a hearing aid to tell me that the fan in the PC
I'm on now is *loud* -- it makes me feel like I have a dishwasher for a PC
sometimes. Also, at work, I *always* look up everytime someone walks by
my cubicle because the floor wasn't built well and many of my co-workers
tend to walk LOUD. (Heck, I've gotten to the point where I could identify
my superviosr by his footsteps alone, mostly because he walks the LOUDEST of
all. (Sorry, Brian.) :-)

--
Angeli "Ms. Pepper" Wahlstedt (pepper@shell.portal.com)

"If nobody else was violent, I could conquer the whole stupid planet with
just a butter knife." - Dogbert
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 05:11:05 -0600
From:         Roy Miller <GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Deletions from DEAF-L

Greetings Everyone --

I would just like to remind all of the older DEAF-L readers, and
inform the newer readers, that the only reason why I delete people
from DEAF-L is because their e-mail address is causing problems.
I fully realize that these problems are not usually something
over which the individual has any control.  Rather they are most
often technical problems about which they know nothing.  Regardless
of the nature of the problem, it results in my receiving "bounced
mail" (mail which for whatever reason cannot be delivered to a
DEAF-L subscriber, and is automatically returned to me by LISTSERV).
When I get two or three pieces of "bounced mail" from the same
address, I simply have no other alternative but to delete that
person from DEAF-L in hopes that whatever is causing their problem
will be resolved and that they will have the good sense to
resubscribe to DEAF-L if they so desire.  As I've said in the
past, I'm sorry if this inconveniences anyone, but it's a
necessary policy to help me retain my sanity.

-- Roy Miller
   Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
   (ge0013@siucvmb     or     ge0013@siucvmb.siu.edu)
From: MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: gallaudet students
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:17:01 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@vaxf.colorado.edu"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi, elaine-

Is it possible for me to find out the student's email address, or should I send
it by the last names or what??

Thanks!
michelle
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:47:17 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      sex wish (no, not *that* kind)
              19 Nov 1992 13:46:48 EST <9211191901.AA03968@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

    Marvin Miller:
    One would dismiss the idea of giving a child a sex-change operation if
    they really wanted a girl instead of a boy.

I feel like playing Devil's Advocate today.  I'm *not* going to dismiss
that idea.

(This *is* relevant to DEAF-L, because beneath the cochlear-implant
debate is a moral debate about how much of a right parents have to
control their children's bodies.  The following analogy is one of
my attempts to explore that moral debate.)

I have (or, more precisely, the Devil has given me {:-) a certain
medication, which will give any child under the age of 1 year a fast,
painless, and perfect sex change.  (By "perfect", I mean that a
treated infant is physically *identical* to an infant who is born with
the new sex.  Any psychological differences are the fault of the home
environment, not the treatment itself.)  It has absolutely no other
effects, helpful or harmful, on the patient.  If an adult, or a child
older than 1 year, who receives this treatment, nothing will happen to
him/her.  The treatment is as cheap to produce as asprin, and is
unpatented.

I argue that parents should be free to give this treatment to their
infant children, if they so desire.  Tell me why I'm wrong.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:30:41 CST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU
From:         U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject:      Re: Technicolor Captions

interestingly enough, the britons close caption nearly
everything, and its all accessible to everyone. One
interesting item I noticed is that they use different
colored captions for each speaker. Just an example of
how our British cousins are ahead of us....
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 71302.3005@compuserve.com
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:16:45 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: deaf wish

Hello Bosco -

>A black child in America may be
>disadvantaged, but the parents cannot be faulted for wishing their
>child to be black

Again, why not?  The situation is very similar.


>Marvin Miller implies that the Deaf community is likely to reject
>hearing children of Deaf adults, and in the very least, they tread a
>fine line between acceptance and rejection. This strikes me as an
>insular and insensitive attitude. If the Deaf community is ever going
>to lose their fear of hearing people, they will have to adopt a more
>open and trusting attitude than this.

However, I should point out that Mr. Miller's ideas are not representative
of the ENTIRE Deaf Community - but are held by some, I readily admit.


>BTW, the problems of Black people in America are mainly *sociological* rather
>than ethical, and that's another reason why the analogy does not hold.

Ah, but that's just my point - the perspective I'm trying to get across is
that deafness *is* a sociological and cultural-based issue.  Certainly a
difficiency in hearing is a physical characteristic.  So is skin color.
This is an oversimplification, naturally, but it serves to illustrate my
point.  Certainly the pathological perspective is one way deafness can be
viewed - and the question then is indeed an ethical one.  But the sociological
viewpoint is equally valid, and ethics do not play a role at all.
This is the point I'm trying to make.

TTYL..
Keith

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:17:27 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      [in]terp[reter]s
              18 Nov 1992 05:36:28 GMT <9211180832.AA17290@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

At the Learning Center, "terp" is a noun and a verb.  "Can you terp
for the department meeting this afternoon?"  "Sorry, I'm feeling sick,
I'll have to go home early.  Have you asked one of the other terps?"

Perhaps a referral service should advertise with the motto "You chirp,
we terp".
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:12:25 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      phone answering machine
              17 Nov 1992 16:24:37 GMT <9211171717.AA09276@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

Last year, I had a Deaf roommate with a TTY, and I tried to include a
TTY and voice outgoing message.  Unfortunately, our answering machine
limited the *entire* outgoing message to ten seconds, but I tried to
work around this limitation.

"You've reached Mark, Phil, and Seth at [number].  Please leave your
message after the beep.  {MSG GA}  No, the *other* beep!"

Or:

[As I typed the TTY message, I tried to do an impression of Marvin
the Paranoid Android from _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_:]
"Here I am, a brain the size of a planet, and they make me sit here
and take phone messages."

But I'm sorry to report that holding down the machine's record button,
holding the mike close to the TTY speaker, talking into the mike, and
typing on the TTY, all at the same time, was a frustrating experience,
and events prompted me to change the outgoing message frequently.

[I swiped the following from Dave Barry]
"You have reached the Massachusetts offices of Perot for President.
Please leave your name and number at the beep.  On second thought,
don't bother leaving a message.  No, maybe you should.  Well--"

In my experience, TTY answering machines generally don't have humorous
outgoing messages--I guess it's hard to pack much amusement into a
brief series of capital letters and symbols.  But imagine the
possibilities for a videophone answering machine.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:06:36 EST
From:         Paul Daniels <LND@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Bridge, anyone?

> My wife and I are always looking for folks to play bridge with.  We'll
> be happy to teach if needed - our skill level is moderately low, so
> bridge is more of a social event at our place.

I used to play bridge years ago when I took lesson during summer school
at Oregon State U. I haven't played for long time bec I hardly know anyone
who play bridge. Very few deaf play bridge or pinicole, unfortunately.
Do u have any bridge or astronomy softwares? If so how do u like to play
bridge against computer? I have EXCosmos, very good astronomy software.
Since u had mentioned u as "Space Activist", does it mean u are very
interested in space or astronomy or science fiction?
We can talk more when we meet for lunch tmw. Be in touch soon
Paul Daniels
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