HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince:New Developments
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:22:48 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.australian
Organization: University of Melbourne

In article <1992Jul27.113752.1272@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>News Straits Times, Singapore(Page 2):
>
>  [stuff deleted]
>
>The above do not tell the WHOLE STORY/TRUTH. What do you expect from Chinese
>Journalists/editors.
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet


Would you just shut up and leave the net ?  If you want to tell the world
that you are Muslim fanatic and a racist, you have done a great job,
we've got the message, thank you very much.

If you dislike the Chinese, what are you doing in Singapore where there is
a large Chinese population ???  Poor Othman !!!  I pity you.   

Now just go away please, you are becoming a pest.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince: New Developments
Followup-To: soc.culture.asean
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:46:27 GMT

In article <ystan.712406889@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au>, ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan) writes:
> 
> 	From Encik Othman's posting, I would think he's a Singaporean ...
> 
Mr Othman is, uh .. how shall I put it, a Malaysian.

-Osbert


-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
fellow@natinst.com            Down with racism. Down with imperialism.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:50:43 GMT

In article <2774@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong) writes:

: 
: Two Australian citizens, both aged under 10, have been kidnapped
: by their father, who happens to be a Malaysian Prince.  The natural
: parents are divorced and the mother has sole custody.  The Australian 

Who gave the custody? Malaysia or Australian government?

: Federal Police is still looking for them. 
: 
: My question is how come the Australian Government is not doing anything
: at a national level ???  Surely a protest or two is in order ?
: Shouldn't the Government be doing more for two children who are taken
: away from the mother against their will ???

Is it really? Or is it the same as the Nadra's case?

: 
: It is incredible that a Malaysian Prince can just came to Australia,
: kidnapped the children and vanished.  I know he must have unusual

Incredible isn't it? Especially against the children's will. The 9 year olds
can already shout at the airports, airplanes etc.

	9 year olds can think. Let them decide. They may want both their
parents. One time in Australia, one time in Malaysia. Why not? Let them choose.

: resources, being a member of the Royal Family, but so has the AFP.
: 
: More questions to any Malaysian out there :-
: 
: a) How powerful is the Royal Family in Malaysia, are they
:    little more than figure heads, like the British one
:    or do they hold real political power ?
They do not have any polical power.
: 
: b) Is Islamic law practised in a court of law ?

Only for Muslims. If the children profess to be muslims then they must follow
the muslim law. Religion is based on the individuals' statement, not based
on a parent or guardian's statements. To be a muslim is simple, just profess
that there is one god and Muhammad is just a messenger of god.
	There is no limit on the age of professing a religion. Of course he/she
must be able to speak. Either he understands what he speaks or not, is not 
our business, because he can change his mind later on.


: 
: c) One news report stated that the daughter might be circumcised
:    if she was taken back to Malaysia.
:    Is female circumcision common in Malaysia ?
Yes only if she wants to. 

: 
: d) What is the Islamic law's attitude on female circumcision ?
: 

Islam does not require circumcision as a condition
to be a Muslim. Only the above statement. Circumcison is practised for 
health reasons. This practice is carried over from Judaism. My daughter was
circumcised. At first I was worried after reading all the horror stories but
when I take a closer look it is nothing more that the remover an outer skin
of something there.
	My wife is also circumcised. You know how I feel.


--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
Subject: Re: Australian Citezens Kidnapped
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:11:22 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
>
>I do not want to seem to be supporting the Prince's actions, but I can
>certainly understand his motives.  His wife was teaching them solely
>about Christianity, and raising them up as Christians.  I am sure the
>Prince would be very concerned if he had strong religious feelings that
>Islam is the true religion.

	This is a problem in a inter-religious marriages. Most of such 
	marriages I have seen involving Muslims are between Christian 
	women and Muslim men. In most of these cases the women convert
	to Islam if not by heart they do it ceremonially. There are so 
	many marriages performed in Islamic Centres all over Europe
	Australia and the USA every year. In such marriages and when the
	woman converts to Islam usually the understanding is the
	children will be brought up as Muslims. But Marriages usually
	break up and in many cases the women who convert to Islam regret
	what they have done and go back top their parents religion with
	passion. I have witnessed an Egyptin man  who was married to
	an Italian-American lady, every time I saw this lady I consider
	her the most devote Muslim that could be. Troubles started and 
	they got divorced, this Lady remembered her Roman Catholicism
	again and started to go to Church again not on her own but with 
	the two poor little Kids she had. Usually the Church encourages
	this from the point of sympathy and some times to protect the
	kids.

	I do not know what happened to her and why did she want to take
	the Kids to church the same kids she agreed to bring up as
	Muslims. May be she wanted to revenge from Her Husband. Her
	Husband go worried so he got an Egyptian Passport to the Kids 
	and flew them to Cairo. This poor woman will never see those 
	Kids again becasue those Kids are going to be hidden in a place 
	out of reach of the Egyptian authorities.

	I do not approve of taking children away from mtheir mothers
	but for God's sake leave the Children out of the differences
	between wife and Husband. I have a mixed Child (Arabic-English)
	myself. The last thing I want for my child is to become a
	subject of fighting between us. In the case of Educated women
	they usually leave the child out of the differences.
	There is no perfect inter-racial or inter-Religious marriage.

	So please if you are going to embark on a mixed marriage think 
	about it 100 times, choose a balanced partner(Wife, Husband). 
	Choose some body who is not just infatuauted in you. If you
	choose imbalanced partner who likes to convert every day and the
	other you will regeret all your life. Choose a partner who is
	not going to use the child and his religion as a bargaining
	chip. 

A Jaber
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:34:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.001846.23947@newshost.anu.edu.au> kcj@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Kate Juliff) writes:

: In article <1992Jul25.155607.26285@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
: >In article <1992Jul25.174053.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:
: >
: >: 
: >: Please shut up.  You are making an absolute fool of yourself in a multinational
: >I am tired arguing with you even in written medium. Your last phrase sums it
: >all.
: >
You too! You expect people to shut up but blabbers nonsense yourself. From my
experience, it is useless to talk to fools.
--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au (Remo Ostini)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince: New Developments
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 03:06:25 GMT

Kate,

I don't think it's missing the point at all.  Yes the guy has broken 
Australian law and is in contempt of court.  But it is not just a matter of
what happens to Australian citizens.  The point of the posts was to provide
some of the background to the case which puts it into some sort of perspective.

The mother took the children out of Malaysia under false pretences.  This is
equivalent to what the father did.  Otherwise the children would speak only
Malaysian and would have grown up in Malaysia.  The mother flouted her 
marriage vows when she took the children.  The reason the kids are
Australian citizens is because she went straight to court to get custody and
citizenship for the children when she got here.  They are also Malaysian
citizens, that's where they where born and where they would have grown up if
she hadn't whisked them away.  Their Australian citizenship strikes me as a
cynical ploy by the mother to keep the kids away from the father.  There is
more involved here than the mere letter of the law.

Remo
-- 
Remo Ostini 			  *  rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au
NCEPH, ANU			  *	
GPO Box 4, 			  *  
Canberra  ACT 2601, Australia	  *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:13:36 GMT

In <2792@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> joseph@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Joseph D'Cruz) writes:

>} : d) What is the Islamic law's attitude on female circumcision ?
>} Islam does not require circumcision as a condition
>} to be a Muslim. Only the above statement. Circumcison is practised for 
>} health reasons. This practice is carried over from Judaism. My daughter was
>} circumcised. At first I was worried after reading all the horror stories but
>} when I take a closer look it is nothing more that the remover an outer skin
>} of something there.
>} 	My wife is also circumcised. You know how I feel.
>>--
>} Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>} Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>} Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>} Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

>Warning: this is going to look like a massive flame.  Apologies, but it has to
>be said. 
>	Oh, good one.  The 'nothing more than the removal of an outer skin'
>you refer to is actually the removal of the *clitoris*.  That's why female
>circumcision is referred to as a 'clitorectomy'.  The clitoris is the part of
>the female sexual organs responsible for almost all sensual pleasure women
>experience during intercourse.  What you have done is to deny your daughter
>the ability to experience pleasure during sexual intercourse.

It may not be the removal of the clitoris.  It could very well be just a
symbolic scrape, in which really nothing is removed.  I don't wish to
insult Omar, but clearly from the wording in his post he doesn't really
know what it was that was done to his daughter.  

Islam does *not* require any sort of female circumcision.  Most Muslim
females have not had a clitorectomy.  Some have, but those that have
have done so because of their local, pre-Islamic culture, primarily (I
have read) in Yemen, Sudan and Egypt.  Christians of this region also
often have clitorectomies.  I suppose this means that Christianity
must require female circumcision?  

(My info on where clitorectomies have been performed in the Muslim world
is from some book by Nawaal El-Sadaawi, an Egyptian feminist.  Sorry,
forgot its title, but if anyone's really interested I can probably find
out what it was.)

 Fred Rice
 darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   

***********************************************************
	One can either take the time
	to learn about the Islamic faith,
	or one can defer to the wisdom of
	broadcast television and hollywood
	and fail to understand it, completely.

				     Gerard Vignes
	[quoted with permission]
***********************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: -=[ Curtin University ]=-  Perth, Australia.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:53:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.155607.26285@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

> In article <1992Jul25.174053.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:

>> Please shut up.  You are making an absolute [international] fool of yourself

> I am tired arguing with you even in written medium. Your last phrase sums it
> all.

Can't take the blatantly obvious facts of this statement of mine, or is the
real reason why you have not even bothered to reply to my message is because
I have defeated all your arguments...?

Well...  I gather you will reply to my message, as not replying will indicate
that your point of view has faltered.

Rod
-- 
  *******     *******     *******   |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 *       *   *       *   *       *  | The Games of the XXVth Olympiad |
*         * *         * *         * | Barcelona   July 25 to August 9 |
*       *******     *******       * |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 *     * *   * *   * *   * *     *y                Day 1               
  *******     *******     *******   |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
      *         * *         *       |    RSwiftRW@cc.Curtin.edu.au    |
       *       *   *       *        | Rod Swift     Curtin University |
        *******     *******         |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Xref: sparky soc.culture.australian:3638 soc.culture.asean:4928
From: hamish@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: N.Z.ers in the  Olympics
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:35:13 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul27.174501.13619@cco.caltech.edu>, roo.caltech.edu!pdrayton (Paul Jeffrey Drayton) writes:
> I am writing to ask the readers of soc.culture.N.Z. in N.Z. if they could  
> include some information about how the N.Z. atheletes are doing in  
> Barcelona. For those of us overseas it is very  hard to get any  
> information about N.Z. competitors. Any info would be much appreciated. 
>                   Thanks Paul.


Badly....

-- 
==============================================================================
|  Hamish Marson   <h.marson@waikato.ac.nz>                             OS/2 |
|  Programmer (n/5), School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences           | 
|  University of Waikato,                                                    |
|  Hamilton, New Zealand.                                                    |
|Disclaimer:  Anything said in this message is the personal opinion of the   |
|             finger hitting the keyboard & doesn't represent my employers   |
|             opinion in any way. (ie we probably don't agree)               |
==============================================================================
  Q. If Nuclear Tests are so safe, why don't the French do them under Paris?
From: klox@otago.ac.nz (Martin Cox, CSC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Test - please ignore
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:47:38 GMT
Organization: University of Otago

Test - please ignore
From: isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: RE: University Fees
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:48:00 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada


      Seems as though the fees you are paying in N.Z. are somewha
t at the level we pay in Canada: around $1900 to $2500, with
minimal variation by faculty.  One of the Universities I attended
, the University of Toronto, recently proposed a solution to the
crippling debt load students assume (the maximum student loan per
degree in Canada is, I think, $20,000, but that's a lot of cash!)
in that students would 'earn' tax debits, which would be prorated
over a 20 year period on graduation, based on the real cost (abou
t $7500/yr) of a University education. These interest-free debits
then, would relate to ones earnings level.  A lawyer, for example
might earn a $45,000 debit: paying $2,250 at the top tax rate may
run him a fair amount.  Someone who graduates & makes no money
(your average B.A.) wouldn't pay anything.  It's all quite
complex, & since I'm not an economist, tough to explain, but one
could easily include lab & textbook costs, and really make a
killing.
      The cheapest places, incidentally, to go to University in
North America, would have to be Texas & California, as long as
one is a state resident. I think that U. of T.-Austin runs about
$600/year.
             Regards
                            Ian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Trivia and parliament
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:47:24 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand
Keywords: interesting facts, major fire at parliament

In article <1992Jul26.233932.29143@actrix.gen.nz> patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:
>

[Lots of trivia deleted]

And The Listener is the most widely circulated magazine in New Zealand...

Derek "I seem to have read all that before somewhere" Tearne


-- 
Derek Tearne  derek@icl.co.nz or derek@fivegl.co.nz --Fujitsu SDC,Auckland,NZ

My 'self aware' .signature file failed his Turing test.  
It turns out he was just a chess playing midget in a decorative box.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: 10703950@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (BENJAMIN CUTLER)
Subject: olympics
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:02:39 GMT

Ha Australia has won a gold medal at the olympics.
And New Zealand has NOT!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: lightw@cetra.trl.OZ.AU (Liron Lightwood)
Subject: Re: Trivia and parliament
Keywords: interesting facts, major fire at parliament
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:24:01 GMT

patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:


>On Sunday the top floor of the historic Parliament Buildings

>(> In 1991, New Zealand shoemakers made 5.4 million pairs
>  of shoes -- nearly two pairs for every New Zealander.

>------
>Taken from The Listener, 1 Aug 1992 - from 1991 census info.

Are there any tarriffs or protection mechanisms which have applied to
shoes imported into NZ during 1991 and 1992?

Does anyone know the figure for Australia?

Australia is looking at lifting tarriffs and quotas for imported Textiles,
clothing and footware.  If NZ, which seems to have become very deregulated
lately, doesn't have any protection on imported shoes, the above figure 
could give an indication of how many pairs of shoes would be manufactured
in Australia after protection is lifted.

Liron Lightwood                     Internet : r.lightwood@trl.oz.au
Telecom Research Laboratories       Phone : +61 3 253 6535
770 Blackburn Road                  Snail : P.O. Box 249 Clayton 3168 Australia
Clayton  Vic. 3168 Australia        Disclaimer : My views are not my company's
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: French and other visas???
From: witbrock@otago.ac.nz
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:21:04 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

What about other european countries?
I'm about to go to England, but I want to do some touring about too.
How recently did France change its policy?

Ann
-- 
Ann Witbrock                       |   o/                   \{o}
witbrock@otago.ac.nz               |  /X \o/  ==========>>>   Y\
(New Zealand, southern hemisphere) |   H  H                   H

Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: joergs@alf.pec.co.nz (Joerg Steinke)
Subject: Re: Boring topics
Organization: Production Engineering (NZ) Ltd.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:20:41 GMT


In article <Brrn00.D4n@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mcwg9235@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marsha Cook Woodbury) writes:
>The reason the topics are boring is that very few
>women are participating...:-)
>-- 
>Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu

Hey presto : it's Marsha again ...

Marsha, who doesn't know much about the rest of the world outside her home-town
What do they teach you at university these days ??
Feminism ??
... how exciting !! ( yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn )

_______________________________________________________________________________
             The white zone is for loading and unloading only.
         If you want to load or to unload, go to the white zone !
<<< joergs@pec.co.nz >>>                              ein Muenchner im "Himmel"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: ajackson@csr.UVic.CA (Ann  Jackson)
Subject: Re: Trivia and parliament
Keywords: interesting facts, major fire at parliament
Reply-To: ajackson@csr.UVic.CA (Ann  Jackson)
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:13:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.223617.22357@massey.ac.nz>, news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System) writes:

>but did you know that the largest group of people represented in New Zealand
>prisons is not Polynesians as many claim, but in fact Christians (or something like that anyway, less than 50% of NZ`s population claims to be religious, yet somewhere around 80% of the prisoners are religous)
>
>ps don't quote me on this, I'm too lazy to go and look up the actual figures in the library.
>
>Paul Lambert, Massey University  em: PLambert@massey.something aruther .nz

Are the religious inclinations of prisoners thought to be cause or effect of
their imprisonment? I mean, are Christians overrepresented among criminals, or
is it rather that people in prison tend to turn to God?
From: root@summer.bt.co.uk (Bob Baal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: French visas for Kiwis???
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:41:34 GMT
Organization: BTLabs

From article <1992Jul23.070518.20177@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, by mike.pole@plant.utas.edu.au (Mike Pole):
> I have been living in Tasmania since March last year and may be a little out 
> of touch with home. I have a conference in France in Sepember and applied for 
> a French visa through my travel agent. My passport was returned by the French 
> authorities along with a note saying New Zealanders did not need a visa for 
> stays up to 90 days. Can anyone confirm this please? I needed one last year, 
> and Australians certainly still need one. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
We went to France in March and my wife (NZ) did not need one.
I was quite concerned and got her to write to the French to check
and they confirmed it was OK.

We had a good trip no problems.I recommend the crepes with brandy and cream filling.



#include <Std disclaimer>
Bob Baal bob@summer.bt.co.uk
G7HZV @ GB7MXM CIS:100012,36  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand