From: ashley@oar.net (Ashley Burns)
Subject: Re: Sign of the times
Organization: OARnet, Columbus, OH.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 20:00:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.192808.23092@adobe.com> riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.201505.16022@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>
>>  My husband won't change poopy or peepee diapers unless the baby's
>>  butt is going to fall off and neither me nor his mother is around.
>>  .. I didn't know this before I was married...  :-( He thinks driving my
>>  son to his mother and back is just compensation for diaper changing.
>>  Actually I'd rather do the diaper changing than driving into the warzone
>>  South Bronx twice a day and carrying him up and down the stinky
>>  stairs in the projects (reeks of urine and bloodstained).
>
>[and then wonders why Laura writes]
>
>>In article <1gqav1INNidh@gap.caltech.edu> floom@cco.caltech.edu (Laura E. Floom) writes:
>>>
>>>I am glad to hear your husband does help out around the house, but you must
>>>forgive the net for assuming he doesnt. I cant count how many times you have
>>>posted on misc.kids complaining about your husband. You make him sound like
>>>a particulary horrible person. I know I am not the only person on misc.kids
>>>who wonders why you stay with him if he is as bad as you say, and if he isnt
>>>as bad as you say, why are you being so disloyal.
>>
>>  Let's see, there's the flu shots, the blood drawing, bassinet,
>>  Santa Cruz questions, exercise, questions...  Do these count
>>  as complaints against a "horrible person"???
>
>You forgot about your husband watching horror movies in front
>of your son and forcing you to the theaters to watch Hellraiser
>movies.
>>>
>>>I have noticed a pattern from you. You write a post complaining about your
>>>husband, inlaws, or life in general. People feel bad for you, and post 
>>>something in response. YOu complain because they didnt take into consideration
>>>other facts. Of course these facts werent in your original posting, so how
>>>could people know about it? 
>>
>>  Never said that the blood-drawing wasn't that bad...  Thanks to all
>>  the people who replied, I now have the guts to tell my midwife that
>>  I refuse to let M. draw my blood.  I already practiced on another
>>  midwife... (I mean asking, not drawing her blood!)
>>
>draw your blood after all?  Uh, no, please don't answer that.  I usually
>read news during my lunch hour and your stories about blood drawing
>were enough to make me wretch.
>
>>>My guess is that you would like to use the net to complain about your husband,
>>>but would rather that none of us respond. If that is the case, please put
>>>a warning at the top of your post, and we can all ignore it. Personally, I
>>>find all the complaining a bit hard to take, especially when you follow up 
>>>with an explanation that he isnt that bad.
>>
>>  I would rather have people tell me what they did in certain situations,
>>  not immediately jump to "horrible person" mode.  If my in-laws force-fed
>>  my son, so that he won't eat with me, then I want to know what I should
>>  do to get him to eat (or allow him to decide to eat himself), not have
>>  people jump all over them for "child abuse", which doesn't help me.
>>
>>  I've decided against posting anything about toilet training because
>>  people will probably go off on how my in-laws want to keep him a baby
>>  longer.  So I'll just do it myself (on the weekends), with no help
>>  from the other parents on the net, to share their experiences with me.  :-(
>
>You know, Clare, I really don't think you get it.  This post of yours
>is a good example.  No one is saying that your husband should change
>poopy diapers; that's between you, him and the baby's butt.  What
>Laura is trying to say is that the way you phrase your posts makes
>your husband sound horrible and I agree. I know.  Let's try an
>example.  What if you had written this instead?
>
>  I think it's great that other parents trade off diapering, but not
>  all parents choose to do that.  My husband doesn't change diapers.
>  One, he works long hours and does the laundry, grocery shopping and
>  drops our child off at his mother's every single day.  Two, I prefer
>  to do the diaper changes.  So, even though it may be nice to trade
>  off chores, there are other ways to work it.
>
>See?  Now, who could flame you for that?  I have an example from my
>
>But DON'T WHINE unless you want people to follow it up
>
>Kathie

WHINE ON:

I am defending Clare's right to whine. Lots of us go to misc.kids
when we are just really out on an emotional limb about something. 
If we are more even-handed about describing some situation (and 
often we aren't) than Clare, it doesn't mean we're not thinking it. 

And when people come back and start being really cutting and mean,
sarcastic and assuming about stuff, we don't feel very good. With 
what you guys wrote above, I think you are breaking your own 
rules about giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. Kathie and
Laura: you could have pointed out inconsistency without being 
so mean and sarcastic. 

Clare, please post when you want. The tolerant nonassuming will
appreciate hearing about it--and believe me, there
are people out there who have had the same problems, and even 
felt ambivalent about the people in our lives.

WHINE OFF

--Ashley