HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: inop equipment
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 00:01:29 GMT


In article <183vaeINNei7@agate.berkeley.edu>, chem4-aa@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lonnie C. Martin) writes:
|>In article <1992Sep2.180634.17297@col.hp.com> davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen) writes:
|>...
|>>But as far as I know there is a provision that you may label the gauge
|>>"INOP" and go flying (at least in the general direction with the general
|>>intention of getting it fixed).
|>
|>I read FAR 91.213 to say that inop equipment must also be disabled, so
|>logged in the aircraft maintenance records, and determined to be safe by
|>either the pilot or qualified mechanic. THEN you can go flying.
|>
|>Common practice may be to tag an "inop" label on the inop item, and then
|>press on. But, for the typical GA rental class airplane without an MEL, 
|>I don't believe that's enough.  As I recall, those are "and"s between the
|>paragraphs in 91.213, not "or"s.
|>
|>Let's see: I'm not referring to MEL equipped aircraft, in-flight failures,
|>and the ridiculous examples, like faded seatcovers. AND, I don't have the
|>trusty FAR with me, so, I hope (and think) the above statements are
|>essentially correct.
|>
|>It is interesting (and sort of fun), however to think of the gray area of
|>what constitutes inop equipment. clock; wind-up clock; cigarette lighter;
|>VOR on a VFR flight (not required, but ...); ripped seat cushion; REALLY
|>RIPPED seat cushion; missing seat cushion; missing seat; scavenge pump on a
|>310; stuck primer on a Cutlass; VOR 2 more than 4 degrees different from
|>VOR1; VOR2 45 degrees different from VOR1.  I'm not sure about some of
|>these.


I recently called the Washington FSDO to see if an inop shoulder belt would
be cause for grounding an airplane. To make a long story short, the answer
was to tag it as inop and go fly, because it wasn't required equipment for
the flight conditions.

As I interpret this, if you lose your VORs you're still legal to fly, but
only in VMC. On the other hand, if you break the carb heat, I'd say that's
cause for grounding.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
Another two hours of actual last night!!
From: peggy.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: andrew
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:30:04 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

Tamiami is destroyed as were all aircraft tied down there.
Homestead AFB was destroyed and probably will not be reopened.
The eye evidently passed between Coral Gables and Florida City..
it was about 18-20 miles in diameter. The north wall is
actually more dangerous but the building codes in Coral
Gables are 200mph tolerances whereas they are 120mph in
the rest of Dade County. Hence the damage...
Evidently the airstrip and fuel at Homestead must be OK
since they are landing the help operation there.
Glad to see someone is interested.
Peggy Golden, Ft. Lauderdale,FL  Warrior N38897
From: hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste (Re: Flying for the Environment)
Keywords: ponds, plumes, piles, and stains
Date: 25 Aug 92 14:06:50 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

In article <c!an1ka@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>Oh great.  Just what we need, another econazi in a plane playing hall monitor.

	This was perhaps the most civil line in John's post. My first thought
was to ignite the nuclear flame thrower. I will resist my first impulse. If
you are as tired of this sort of thing as I am, the following command will fix
your problem (assuming your news reader has this function).

at the '--what next? [npq]' prompt issue this command:

/John De Armond/Kh:j

	This command will search for John's name in the headers. Junk his
post and place the command in your rec.aviation kill file. In over five years,
I've awarded this dubious distinction to only two other people. Sigh. This used
to be such a nice friendly little news group.... :-(

Ed

PS I've never had a rec.aviation kill file before. :-( :-( The two other folks
   were in a group where I almost expect heated incivility. Couldn't we all just
   get along? 


-- 
edward.hutton@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Ed Hutton)    
	"If you can get your finger off the execute button before the job is done,
the machine is too slow." -- From: the 'Hutton Speed Criterion' :-)
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: The Proper Scope of rec.aviation articles
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:55:00 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

The discussion that's been started by John D'whatsizname in his babyish
post (which I happily suspect will be his last for quite a while) has 
brought out a few people who don't think posts such as Margaret's are 
appropriate to this news group.  When I first read this, that perspective 
surprised me, especially after the recent anti-flame discussion in which so
many people expressed a desire to have her back on the net.  Then a couple
of other people also mentioned they thought certain discussions belonged in
other groups and not here, and that got me thinking seriously.  So, what is
the proper scope of rec.aviation?

In my opinion, at least until the group is reorganized, anything having to 
do with aviation in any way, should be welcome here without people saying
the discussion should be taken elsewhere.  You might not want to see 
environmental posts (to take one example) here, but I do and so do thousands
of other netters.  As has been suggested so many times, learn to use a kill 
file so you don't have to waste your time with subjects (or authors) you 
don't want to read.  Believe me, there are subjects that have come up here 
that I'd *love* to kick out of this group, but as long as some people are 
interested in the subject I don't feel it's my right to do so.  

As I mentioned in another recent post, I like to read about people doing
useful things with their airplanes, and if that means that the article 
includes other subjects *in addition to* aviation, so be it.  When I get
bored, I'll stop reading.  If it really has little or nothing to do with
aviation, it shouldn't be here, but using an airplane to do something 
constructive that can't be done from the ground certainly has a lot to do 
with aviation.  I'd like to hear about experiences people have
had with Lifeguard, Lighthawk, Search & Rescue, border patrols, Coast Guard
patrols (which I may get involved with myself), and so on, and I suspect
a lot of other people want to see the same thing.  Let's not discourage it
just because one person isn't interested.
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Instrument Training
Keywords: IFR Instrument Training
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:00:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvusn.1992Aug26.220025.8353
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)

In article <71691@apple.Apple.COM>, robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths) writes:
> In article <71685@apple.Apple.COM> rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen) writes:
   ...
>>You should budget about $4,000 for the training. You might get by for less,
>>but if you run out of money in the middle, you are going to have to redo
> 
> You might also need to budget MORE than $4,000.  Here's a fairly typical
> scenario in a major metro area:
   ...
>                                   TOTAL    $4,650
> 
> (NOTE:  Yes, I assume a CFII for the whole time.  I realize you could
> save tremendously with a check pilot.  I would imagine, however, that
> total time flying would increase proportionately.)
   ...

Strictly to provide another set of data points:

I began my instrument training on 6/25/83 with the following log:

          Total time:   148.0 hours
          Dual time:     48.2 hours
          Hood time:      1.4 hours
          Actual IMC:     0.0 hours

I went for (and passed) my instrument rating on 10/15/83 with the following:

          Total time:   206.3 hours  (200 hours were required then)
          Dual time:     84.2 hours
          Hood time:     44.1 hours
          Actual IMC:     1.3 hours

My instrument rating thus required 112 days including:
                    42.7 hours of hood time 
                  +  1.3 hours of IMC
     for a total of 44.0 hours of instrument time (none simulated)

     36.0 hours of dual instruction of which 33.0 hours was instrument time.
     11.0 hours of instrument time that was not dual.

I don't know how typical these numbers are.  Any CFII (or anybody else for
that matter) can feel free to point out anything they may consider "unusual"
(I'm pretty thick skinned).  Naturally your mileage may vary.

Mark Rowe            PP-SEL G I              Comanche N5943P
From: esc@ulysses.att.com (E. Steve Crandall)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Sussex Airshow -- New Maneuver
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:27:58 GMT


I agree with Venky that the Sussex airshow is under-rated.  I've been
going since '81 and it gets better every year.  Unlike most airshows,
you are very close to the action and performers.  And unlike most
airshows, the action is very tight paced.

Over the years we've been able to get to know a few of the performers.
This Sunday I stopped Leo Loudenslager (a reasonable pilot) and asked
him if he could hit an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper on his inverted ribbon
cut.  Leo looked puzzled and I then added "how about our mortgage?"
(we have been working very hard to get out of debt and have just finished
the mortgage)  He grinned, shook hands, and said "head on or a bit off
to the side?"

It tured out that word of this leaked to the airshow announcer, Sonny
Everet, who announced the maneuver as the World's first inverted
mortgage cut to a huge crowd.  Leo really nailed it - the sheet is
badly mangled (impressive when you consider the aircraft moves a reasonable
distance between revolutions).  Two Ukranian MiG 29 pilots were holding
the supporting poles for Leo and one of them retrieved the remains.

It was one of the best Sundays we've ever had.  Leo appologized for not
hitting it better!

Steve Crandall
evan.crandall@att.com
From: THOMAS.REED@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Thomas Reed")
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Sunglass Color
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:45:38 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

I used Ray Bans, the dark green color, until I was totally fed up with
them breaking. I think I broke 4 pair, all at the center weld spots,
all gleefully replaced by the retailer... Good customer service, poor
quality although the color seemed to be OK. My dad swore by the color
when he was a B-17/29 instructor.

I switched to Sarenghetti (sp?). The color seems to be like those $2
rosey things sold on TV but after a few minutes I found that colors
seemed to maintain accurate hue. The best attribute: they cut haze like
crazy. I see other air traffic long before anyone else and I don't have
perfect vision. Here in Cincinnati we have 3 months of 1/2 mile vis,
not a cloud in the sky weather during the summer. The frames are
sturdy too. I wouldn't drive or fly with anything else.

Not a paid announcement.....

Thomas Reed  (CP-ASEL CFI)             I never speak for Wang when
Consultant                             the subject is flying!
Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Cincinnati, Ohio
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Dear Abby (Re: Scary Stories...)
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Aug20.223841.11290@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
	<1992Aug23.032356.19713@leela.cs.orst.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:53:40 GMT

On 23 Aug 92 03:23:56 GMT, mpucket@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Margaret Puckette) said:

MP> Since I posted that article about flames discouraging the telling of
MP> scary stories, I've received dozens of accounts of such stories
MP> through email...DON'T WORRY, I'M NOT TELLING!  These have made for
MP> some incredible reading, folks!  I am even more convinced we need
MP> a method of relating your experiences to the net, and using the
MP> model provided by NASA in its ASRS program, that method should
MP> allow for both *amnesty* and *anonymity*.  Any ideas out there?

Well, I work for NASA and I read the ASRS newsletter.  Will that do?

I'd be quite happy to post anonymous stories for people.  If you want
me to do this, send me a _sanitized_ version (no tail numbers, for
example) and I'll happily post it as an anonymous contribution to the
net wisdom.

Since I don't fly myself (I prefer to do my bit as center-of-gravity
position control) and I'm not caught up in the FAA part of the air
space, there's no chance that I'll be second-guessing the poster and
violating the anonymity.  

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: psv2b@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Peter S. Vines)
Subject: Re: Certificate Change of Address
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:57:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.211142.19578@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> gle@l42bb.jsc.nasa.gov (glenn ellis) writes:
>I recently moved and dutifully sent a change of address to the FAA for my 
>SEL license.  Are they going to send my a new one with my new address on 
>it?  Easy question - hopefully there's an easy answer.
>
>- gle -


I went through a couple of address changes and never saw a new certificate
until I received a new rating.
--
- Peter Vines : vines@virginia.edu : (804) 924-4644 : University of Virginia
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg)
Subject: Re: AM I CRAZY OR WAS THERE A 'SCREW UP' YESTERDAY
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:04:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.014522.154@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman) writes:
>For some reason, the thought of a 747 <commercial> having a 'near miss'
>with a missle or 'high preformance top secret aircraft' <i.e. aurora?>
>comes to my  mind...don't know why!
>
>I remember hearing it somewhere..but don't remember where...

I remember the same thing, it was a teaser for the 11 o'clock news.  I
called them and here's the (abbreviated) story:

	According to a report in Aviation Week, there was a near miss 
	reported by a United 747 leaving Los Angeles for London on Aug
	5.  ALPA is said to be investigating.  The 747 pilots reported
	a near miss with something flying 1000 feet below them at
	supersonic speed.  It was dark colored, about the size of a
	fighter, with a round edged fuselage and no wings.  This was
	in airspace near 2 military bases, but the Pentagon says the
	craft wasn't theirs. 

I got this over the phone with KOMO TV-4 news here in Seattle.
Anybody have the AvWeek with their version of the story?

Erik
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: willcr@bud.sos.ivy.isc.com (Will Crowder)
Subject: Re: Headset/intercom incompatibilities
Reply-To: willcr@ivy.isc.com
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:54:27 GMT

In article <Aug.31.19.10.18.1992.3417@pilot.njin.net>,
ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:

|> > [quote regarding type of headset/intercom deleted]
|> 
|> This is not an uncommon problem with mismatched microphones.
|> Fortuately, my Dave Clark's seem to be compatible with all of
|> the other headsets I've tried.  The intercom only has one vox and
|> volume control and there's no good way to get it to work properly.

It seems that there might be a market for some sort of adjustable
impedance/level matching device.

Has anyone heard of such a beast?  Anyone want to design one?

Will "I have a SoftComm ATC-4 with the same problem" Crowder
PP-ASEL-IA
-- 
Will Crowder                        | "Any airplane you can't roll ain't
Senior Member of Technical Staff    |    no damn good!"
(willcr@ivy.isc.com)                |       -- Tex Johnston
INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.           |
From: drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: more aviation news
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:23:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep2.162310.14266
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

I'm paraphrasing these news reports from clari.news.aviation for those who
might not get this newsfeed. I'll continue to do this if folks don't think
its a waste of bandwidth. 

Two U.S. citizens and a Manitoba man died
Thursday morning when their small plane crashed shortly after taking off
on a test flight, from Gimli airport (Canada about 100 miles north of the
North Dakota border). A videotape of the flight is being held by police and
the victims identities are being withheld until notification of next of kin.
The plane was a Caribou Conversion aircraft, flown by NewCal Aviation of
Gimli. It crashed and burned after rising to about 500' during take off. 
----------

Three people Saturday died when a
twin-engined Cessna 301 crashed into a house shortly after take-off from
Crystal Airport located in suburban Minneapolis. The cause of the crash was
unknown as were the names of the pilot and passengers. The plane was flying
east with weather conditions humid, partly sunny with gusting winds from
the SE.
-----------
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Propping big engines
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:43:39 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.

prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja) writes:

>I don't consider hand propping an option unless you've had some training. 
>And preferably some experience.  There are too many ways to get munched.
>Even though I've had two articles published on hand propping, the "Get some
>dual" comment in them wasn't just a CYA legal move.

>Even with four years' experience at propping, if someone asked me to prop
>their 210 I'd refuse.  It's just too different from what I'm used to.

Yeah, my instructor taught me how to hand-prop Rocky.  I practiced it
several times on a cold engine, and then when she thought I had the
moves down right, we turned on the mags.  My little 65-horse engine
doesn't take much effort, luckily.  A couple of months ago, I had 
the 'opportunity' to hand-prop a T-41 with a 180-horse engine.  I
tried it cold a couple of times, and decided not to try it with the
mags on.  The compression was too high, and the angle too awkward.
(Before the flames start, I know that having the mags off is no
guarantee that the engine won't fire.  I always treat the prop like
it's hot, especially when practicing for a hand-start.)
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: Advice for Grand Canyon Trip
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:43:33 GMT

sivaram@hplred.HP.COM (S. Sivaramakrishnan) writes:

[asking for tips for a flight to Grand Canyon]

Unless they've changed the policy there, bring your own tiedown ropes.
They've got rings in the concrete but don't supply anything else.

Get rooms inside the park if possible.  There are several motels in
Tuyasan (sp?) next to the airport but they are significantly more
expensive than the cheaper rooms at the Village.  This late in the
season I would expect that you should be able to get rooms without
much hassle, but call first for reservations.  (The cabins to the west
of the Kachina and Thunderbird Lodges are an excellent deal.  Especially
if you've got a car, ditto for the cabins near the Yavapi Lodge.)

If you're based in California you probably have some experience with
high-altitude airports, but remember that GCN is 6606 MSL.  Not
as high as Leadville but high enough to make it interesting.

And if you do have a car, go out one morning to watch the sunrise
at the Watchtower at the eastern end of the park.  Looking out
over the Painted Desert from there gives much of the same impression
of watching sunrise from an eastbound airplane -- except that you can
set up your camera without having to keep an eye out for conflicting
traffic.  Beautiful.

Disclaimer: it's been a few years since I've flown into GCN, so everything
above except the airport altitude and the beauty of the sunrise over
the Painted Desert is subject to change.

Joe Morris / MITRE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste (Re: Flying for the Environment)
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:09:20 GMT

In article <4dbn#kq@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
|> 
|> No we're not.   We're talking about a busy-body poking her nose into
|> things she likely knows nothing about.  Are the drums full of evil
|> assault baby-killing CHEMICALS or are they empty?  Is that color in
|> the pond EABKC or is it an algae bloom?  To her type, that does not
|> matter.  Just call 'em all in and to hell with the harrassment or cost
|> suffered by her victims.  The old ends-justify-the-means argument 
|> does not fly here any more than it does elsewhere.

	Well, John, I wouldn't call her a busybody; I'd call her a
concerned citizen performing her duty by reporting possible violations
of the law.  Your characterization of her as a "know-nothing" is
prejudicial and offensive.  Why can't you disagree with her without being
disagreeable? 

|> I'll bet you'd be appalled if she went snooping around other people's
|> property while on the ground.  Why does being in a plane suddenly 
|> make it acceptable to you?

	If she went snooping around on private property, yup, I'd be
appalled.  Trespassing is illegal.  Flying above private property is
NOT illegal; if a suspected environmental violation is visible, _I_
would report it also.  Dealing with law enforcement agencies about a
possible violation is part of civilization.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
									|
David M. Hagood			Martin Marietta Astronautics Group	|
									|
Voice:  (303) 977-9657		When in danger, or in doubt,		|
E-mail: hagood@den.mmc.com	Run in circles, scream and shout.	|
Fax: (303) 977-1530							|
									|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     static char *disclaimer = "My opinions, not Martin Marietta's."    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:07:45 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Sep1.151634.16989@news.acns.nwu.edu> drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) writes:
>
>
>The news report stressed that the
>problem was the uncoordinated airport in a residential neighborhood.

Sounds like another journalists' freshly minted contribution to our vocabulary.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flying to Oregon: Questions.
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:59:29 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <4371@equinox.unr.edu> brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher) writes:
>...  All in all it was a nice trip, except
>that on attempting to return home I HAD A COMPLETE POWER LOSS AND HAD TO
>BE RESCUED BY THE COAST GUARD!
>...The CG had a 24V APU with a plug that fit my plane, and got me
>going.

For cryin' out loud - I thought that they had to pull you out of the drink!
Nice teaser...

-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation