HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Recomend good LORAN ???
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:48:13 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's College of Maryland
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6C79B860A0401D2@williams.smcm.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:48:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.113311.28475@pdn.paradyne.com> Larry Swift,
larry@pdn.paradyne.com writes:
>Check out the latest Apelco at somewhere around $300

In article <6140068@hplsla.hp.com> Thatch Harvey, thatchh@hplsla.hp.com
writes:
>to go with the $200 unit currently being sold by West Marine (catalog and

I have friends with both of these units, and I don't think you'd go wrong
with either -- I agree with Practical Sailor that they're really good
buys.  The Apelco unit is incredibly tiny (one could easily mistake it
for a Game Boy), which could be a plus for some people but a minus for
others.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Bayliner myths: a challenge 
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:29:30 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

As a satisfied bayliner owner I have listened with interest to the bayliner
Bashing in the group.  I have heard lots of stories but no examples.  So, I 
am going to stick my neck out, waaaaaay out.  The gauntlet has been tossed.
The red flag has been waved.  You have been slapped on the cheek with a
glove.  Caution has been thrown to the wind.  Here it is the first annual
Bayliner put up or shut up contest.

rules:
	past or present Bayliner owner or have personal experience.
	Be specific, what actually broke, fell off or stopped working?
		What were the conditions at the time?
	What feature(s) did you learn to hate?  Why?
	State year and model.

On the flip side, lets hear from those of you who are satisfied with your
Bayliner.  What do you like about your boat?

Since I expect volumes of mail I will summarize for the amusment of all
you nay sayers.
--
Hal Lynch
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
	DECnet:   USU::HAL
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: streching a tarp (was Re: re: Winter Boat Storage)
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:52:02 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

Just a warning - probably unnecessary for most people, but I think it's
worth mentioning:

If you use your mast to make the ridge, be very careful about how much weight
you are putting on it.  It may be quite weak when it is unstayed, and
over several months it might get distorted if it is carrying a badly
distributed load - and the load on a tarpaulin in a high wind can be
large. On the other hand, you must have a ridge in the tarpaulin so that
it will shed water. If it can sag (e.g., into the cockpit), it will
accumulate an enormous weight of water, which can cause serious damage
if it lies there for weeks. If you discover this when the water has
already frozen, you have the additional grief of not being able to do
anything about it until the thaw.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod)
Subject: Re: Formula for speed ?
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:18:50 GMT

>WRONG again Grasshopper. The max horsepower is directly related to the width,
>strength, material and construction of the transom. Otherwise, all 16' long,
>7; wide boats would have the same limits.. and trust me, they don't..
>
>				Signed,
>			The owner of a 40hp MAX, 16'x7' bass tracker
>
>						Mike Fishman
>				(part-time engineer and full-time fisherman)
>

Mike I don't post crap to the net.  Your signature says you are a part
time engineer.  I guess now I know why you are part time.  My source
for the information about max horsepower is from the Rules And Regulations
For Recreational Boats, The American Boat And Yacht Council, The United
States Code (USC), and The Code Of Federal Regulations (CFR).

The legal limit (and note the word LEGAL) for your 16' X 7' Bass Tracker
is:
	16' X 7' = 112  (this assumes accurate measurements)
	If this boat has remote steering and the transom height
	is at least 20" then,
	112 X 2 = 224
	224 - 90 = 134
	next multiple of 5 = 135  
	Therefore 135 HP would be the maximum legal limit for
	a boat this size.

	HOWEVER,  I think the Bass Tracker that you are describing
	falls into the OTHER catagory that I referred to in my
	original post:

	16' X 7' = 112 ( again, assumes accuracy)
	I suspect your boat has a transom height of less than 20"
	and/or has a flat bottom with a hard chine like the aluminum
	models (at least some of them) therefore,
	.5 X 112 = 56
	56 - 15 = 41
	next multiple of 5 = 45
	Therefore 45 HP would be the maximum legal limit.

	AND THEN AGAIN. If your boat has < 20" transom and it does
	not have a flat bottom or hard chine, then:
	16' X 7' = 112 (same assumption)
	.8 X 112 = 89.6
	89.6 - 25 = 64.6
	next multiple of 5 = 65
	Therefore 65 HP would be the maximum.

NOTE THAT THE REGULATIONS, TABLES, AND CALCULATIONS DON'T HAVE ANY
REFERENCE TO CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS OR TRANSOM STRENGTH.  If a
manufacturer builds a boat with a transom that isn't strong enough
to support these limits I suspect they would be liable.

These tables don't apple to real small boats.  If you want to be able
to make the calculations -- buy the appropriate references or get
them from the library.

Kevin.



From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:32:19 GMT
Subject: Re: streching a tarp (was Re: re: Winter Boat Storage)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

The first year I got my boat I drapped a green reinforced vinyl tarp
over it.  I used the mast lashed to the pul/pushpits to hold the tarp
up.  I had two major problems because we get high winds (40-50 mph and
above) and lots of snow (feet at a time)

The tarp chaffed on anything it touched and the snow dragged the tarp
down towards the deck and froze in huge chunks (some of which I could
not lift!).  I did put lots of old carpet in strategic places under
the tarp but not enough to stop all of the chafe.

Now I fix hoops of flexible vinyl tubing (used for underground
sprinkler systems) across the mast and tied down to the stanchions.
Then I pad everything I can with old bits of carpet.  Then I put a new
(grey) reinforced tarp on and put the old tarp over that (a 24' by 12'
only costs $18 at K-Mart).  

As well as tying the tarps down at the edges, I also throw ropes right
over them and tie those down to stop the tarps ballooning up into the
air.  I leave both ends open slightly so as not to create a greenhouse
when the sun shines.

It has worked well for a couple of years now.

Brian (getter close to that time to put the lugger away...)
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Changing a name
Date: 4 Sep 92 10:20:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com

In article 17174@ans.net, hagens@news.ans.net (Robert Hagens) writes:
>A simple question for all of you: If you buy a used boat, and want to change 
>the name, is this bad luck?

Only if you are superstitious.  I have heard, however, that you 
can safely change a boat's name after running aground.  

For those wondering about removing the "shadow" left by a 
removed name, you might try _carefully_ wet sanding.  It worked 
on my 10 year old gelcoat.  

BILL COURINGTON of Lively, formerly Code Blue
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: FAQ WANTED
Keywords: FAQ?
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:04:05 GMT

A FAQ sounds like a good idea to me.  Perhaps because I'm a powerboat
owner-wannabee and would benefit from one (knowledge sink) :-).

About all I can contribute is suggestions for information that those
who are knowledge _sources_ might give to the FAQ.

Things I Would Like To See In A FAQ:

 List of boat manufacturers with brief description.  Which ones
 are good, bad and ugly.  Or at least which ones are priced for
 beginners, which ones are incredibly expensive (even if worth it) etc.

 Info on engines.  How do the 4-cylinders compare to the 6 and 8
 cylinders? (I/O).  How many skiers (if any!) can a given boat/engine
 pull happily (boat salesmen seem rather optomistic in the area...)?

 A glossary would be handy.  What the heck is a "cuddy" cabin?
 Perhaps the reading list that was mentioned would answer these
 newbie questions more appropriatly since these terms should be
 factual and somewhat static -- good book fodder.  What I like
 in a FAQ are topical bits of information presented by people
 who have _opinions_ and no commercial (can't tick off advertiser
 XYZ...) axe to grind.

 Why don't they sell PWC's (Waverunners, Sea Doos etc.) at _boat_
 stores?  Aren't they really boats? :-)

 Are houseboats really boats?  If so, why? :-)


In closing, let me repeat that I think a FAQ would be great, and
I wish I had something to really contribute.  Thanks in advance
to the future FAQist and anyone else who contributes!

Don

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
meyer%dbsun.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu        |||     I am at two with nature.
Opinions expressed are personal.         |||       -- Woody Allen
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Chesapeake Bay Net Gathering
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:08:01 GMT
Reply-To: cbnet-request@cherise.sandr.com (Bob Parkinson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

OK, so that I can stop feeling guilty about wasting bandwidth in
rec.boats with Chesapeake Bay-specific articles about the net.gathering,
I've created a mailing list.

I think I've got everybody involved included on the list; *However*, just 
to make sure, please send mail to cbnet-request@cherise.sandr.com so I
can verify your address, and the fact that you want to receive the
list, and keep up to date on the raft up in Shaw Bay. Include your
correct address, please. Or if you don't want to be on the list, say that
so I can delete you.

Thereafter, send your mail concerning the raft up to
cbnet@cherise.sandr.com.

I'll repost the particulars about the raft up to the mailing list today 
(Wednesday). If you don't receive that, email bobp@sandr.com or to 
cbnet-request@cherise.sandr.com because it probably means I've
munged your address.

This is the LAST post to rec.boats concerning the Chesapeake Bay Net 
Gathering. I apologize for the wasted(?) bandwidth.

Bob Parkinson
bobp@sandr.com


Bob

-- 
[ Bob Parkinson                                 S&R Software, Incorporated ]
[ bobp@sandr.com                                              410.628.9241 ]
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:04:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>You only addressed one of the points raised.  If you don't fire it off,
>how do you propose that one disposes of such potential toxic trash?  
>(Let's assume we don't want the toxics to end up in the sea OR in inland
>ground water.)

Fair enough.  Though I described the trash as toxic, the main issue
was litter.  (The original statement was about Olin alledgedly suggesting
to throw excess flares overboard.)
My objection was raised by envisioning a shoreline with spent flare
debris scattered along.

So, what would I do?  Well, if I really had an excess of flares I  would
light them on my patio.  If this proved to be too much discomfort I
would then light them and drop them in a bucket of water.  In either
case I would drop the remains in the regular old garbage can and
send them to the regular old dump with all the other garbage.

Disgusting? Perhaps.  But the water supply at that dump is already
beyond hope and it is already a giant litter pile.

-rcf
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: oles@kelvin.uio.no (Ole Swang)
Subject: Re: Changing a name
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:37:31 GMT

In article 17174@ans.net, hagens@news.ans.net (Robert Hagens) writes:
 
> A simple question for all of you: If you buy a used boat, and want to change 
> the name, is this bad luck?

No, no. But it can be a problem to get the old lettering off. 
Good hints, anyone? The letters on my (recently aquired) boat
look like they are of the self-sticking type, but they have
proven very hard to remove. Of course, one would prefer to
keep the gelcoat unhurt.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole Swang     assistant lecturer, Dept. of Chemistry, U. of Oslo
oles@ulrik.uio.no
------------------  ._.. ._ ..___ ._ __..   ---------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: donp@niaid.nih.gov (Don Preuss)
Subject: Winter storage and marinas in GA, FL
Summary: Looking for marinas
Keywords: sailing
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:14:56 GMT

I'm looking for a marina/boatyard in the GA, Northern FL area for some
boatwork on a sailboat. It would need to be near the ICW. I've gotten 
a few names from the SE US Boat Guide (Ads) but would appreciate any
information that people could give me. 
Needs: Self Service boatyard with storage for 3 months.
	Travelift for a 36' sailboat.

thanks in advance

donp
donp@niaid.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:58:23 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

>I went out with a friend on his Sunfish in a large bay and the wind was 
>really strong. It was a little bit cool because a Sunfish is a really WET boat, especially in those conditions. Anyway, we were sailing pretty hard and
>getting really soaked; both of us were hiking out over the side of the boat. 
>We were horizontal over the water with our toes hooked in the cockpit of the
>boat when all of a sudden SNAP! The mast sheared off about 1 foot above the 
>base. Both of us flipped over backwards, really surprised. We were several
>hundred yards offshore, so it was a good swim back with the boat in tow. We 
>were both well prepared with lifejackets, wetsuit, etc. so no harm done.  
>


Well the breeze wasn't limited to the East coast. Loch Mich had 30
kts. from the west blowing all day Sunday. On the western shore, the
lake was relatively flat (for 30 kts), and sailing was interesting.
I saw a most fail on a slightly larger boat than a sunfish... Toscana
(Beneteau 1 ton) apparently didn't put windward runners on when they
headed upwind.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: sglickma@hopi.intel.com (Steve Glickman)
Subject: Thanks for the 800 numbers
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:42:18 GMT

 Thanks to all who posted the number for Boat us and to Roy
for the 800 info number. I promise no more 800 number requests.
                            Thanks again
--
Steve Glickman | " I don't think Don King deserves a holiday in Arizona."|     /\  / \ 
Intel Corp.    |                               Tom & Tom                 |    /\/\/   \/\o
Chandler,Az    |                              In Living Color            |   /    \    \_ 
               |                                                         |  /      \    \
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:26:06 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <la9lthINN2ls@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>Several Right Coasters write:
>
>...[various raves about the wind last weekend removed]...
>
>It's funny you had such good wind last weekend.  Here, in San Francisco
>Bay, the wind was unusually light.  It didn't get over about 25 knots
>all weekend and it even rained on Saturday.  I even thought about using
>my 150% genny, but that's for winter sailing.
>
>Dudley
>.

For all of you on the East Coast packing to come hunting for Dudley, don't
bother:  I'm closer, and already on the way!   ;^)

Writing from Seattle, where it has been close to dead calm for the last
several months!

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sailboats
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:53:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.1992Sep4.105358.58629
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <lad1ocINNo0b@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:
|>
|>In article 874@Armstrong.EDU, newso584@Armstrong.EDU (Robert Newsome) writes:
|>> Hi!  This question may seem naive, but I am a beginning boater and reader to
|>> rec.boats.  I have been thinking about whether to purchase a sailboat or a
|>> motorboat.  I think that I would like to have a sailboat, but I would like to
|>> hear some advantages/disadvantages of one over the other.  Furthermore, if I
|>> do decide to get a sailboat, what would be a good starter so that I can learn
|>> to navigate, etc.  In addition, what books may I read to get better aquainted
|>> with sailboats.  I have not been sailing yet, but my uncle has invited me to go
|>> with him on a Hans Christiansen (sp??).  What kind of things should I pay 
|>> most attention to?  Thanks for any information.  BTW, I would like a starter
|>> around maybe 10-15K, any suggestions?
|>
|>Is this posting for real, or are we being put on?  On the off chance that this is 
|>for real, here is my STRONG advice.
|>
|>DO NOT TRY TO DECIDE IF YOU PREFER SAILBOATS OR POWER BOATS BASED ON ANY
|>LISTING
|>OF ADVANTAGES OR DISADVANTAGES OF EITHER YOUR READ ON THE NET - OR ANY WHERE |>ELSE.
|>
|>GET OUT THERE YOURSELF AND EXPERIENCE EACH FOR A LITTLE WHILE.  THEN, YOU WILL |>KNOW
|>IF YOU ARE A RAGMAN OR A STINKPOTTER.
|>
|>DO NOT BUY ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE GAINED THIS EXPERIENCE.
|>
|>
|>'NUF SAID,
|>
|>Jeff Huntington
|>
|>
|>


amen!
--
Hal Lynch
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
	DECnet:   USU::HAL
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: porta-potti
Date: 1 Sep 1992 16:11:21 GMT
Organization: Invictus
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

In article <la4hkdINNpr@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>I agree with other posters that sewage should be treated 
>before entering the water.  
>
>At the same time, I get the feeling that environmental
>zealots spend too much time pursuing boaters and
>boatyards and not enough (none?) tackling what seems to me
>to be the _big_ pollution source in urban areas such as SF
>Bay:  runoff from the streets.  

This is exactly the problem.  Boaters are few in numbers and we have
an image of rich elitists.  We therefore make an easy target for
politicians who want to appear as if they are doing something while
alienating as few voters as possible.

As the best defense is a good offense, it is in our best interests,
as boaters, to make a point of showing a protective concern for the
environment we enjoy.  Otherwise, some grandstanding vote-monger is
going to force it on us by portraying boaters as a threat to the
environment.

Dudley
.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: 2 batteries -- how?
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:08:33 GMT

In article <19861@fritz.filenet.com> daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards) writes:
>I'm electrifying my dad's 50+ year old sailboat.  Everything was pro-
>gressing smoothly until I decided to include wiring to allow a second
>battery to be added at some later date (I don't think it's a critical
>requirement at this point).  Anyway, I bought a selector switch that

>(C) I forget about the isolator altogether and just hook the alternator
>output to the selector switch common terminal.  Only the selected battery
>will be charged.  Is it OK to leave the selector switch on "both" while
>the engine is running, to charge both batteries in parallel? (That's
>what the switch documentation says, but I have doubts.)

This is what I did on my boat.  Worked fine.

>(D) Same as (C) only the switch isn't left on "both".  The skipper has 
>to remember to periodically alternate the switch between 1 and 2 while
>the engine is running to charge both batteries.

What I did was to use one battery on the outbound leg, and the other
when I was returning.  Essentially, I started the engine alternately
on first one then the other battery.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:59:13 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (especially the mouth part of the face) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.150928.19124@icd.teradyne.com>, burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.
>com (Mike Burzycki) writes...
>>Anybody out there do any sailing this past weekend in the Massachusetts area?
>>The wind was really howling both days, but I was only able to get out there on
>>Sunday.
>
>I couldn't get out saturday (wedding shower/party), it was supposedly blowing
>25 kts on the Chesapeake Bay.
>      (deleted)
>Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer

Indeed it was Tom.  Best day for me this year.  Bright, cool, steady.
Is it my imagination or has this summer defied the usual odds for hot,
humid, Chesapeake Bay doldrums-- and been a winner?  Maybe it's luck,
but I've only motored a few hours this season.  Took my nephew and a
friend of his who had never been sailing.  By the end of the day, the
neophyte was ready to live every moment on the water.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: paulh@redcay.hw.stratus.com (Paul Himottu)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Bayliner Alternatives?
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:24:19 GMT
Distribution: rec.boats
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

I have read with great interest the discussion of Bayliner boats.  I am in the market
for a 19 to 20 foot boat to be used exclusively on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hamp-
shire.  My budget is somewhat limited so I will be forced to look at a used boat.
In light of the many apparent shortcomings with Bayliner, what would be a good
alternative brand to look at in the used market.  My current preference would be a 
bowrider powered by an I/O unit.  Also, what would be some of the things to watch out
for when looking at a used boat?  Is any particular time of the year better to make
such a purchase?  Thanks in advance for any assistance that anyone might be able to
provide.

Paul Himottu
paulh@redcay.hw.stratus.com
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:24:26 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki) writes:

>Anybody out there do any sailing this past weekend in the Massachusetts area? 
>The wind was really howling both days, but I was only able to get out there on
>Sunday.  

It was a real screamer in eastern LI Sound, too. Bright, clear and
cool, too. As usual in high winds, we whallopped everybody on
Saturday. We also discovered that our heavy air jib is slower than a
blown-out light air jib (even sailing short-handed) in 25 knots. Sorta
makes me wonder why we got it... Changing jibs in short 4-foot sea is
a lot of fun...

BTW - Will - we were ruled PMS on the second race two weeks ago. Given
that we were behind the pin, the Committee was obviously wrong; but
c'est la guerre.