HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul Big-Ears Menon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Marketeers (was MacTCP license fees & Eudora)
Date: 13 Nov 92 05:24:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology (RMIT)
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A72980CE1F014015@thylacine.cs.rmit.oz.au>
X-XXDate: Fri, 13 Nov 92 23:57:02 GMT


.. <kaff>... <gasp!> .. <splutter!>... 

Err.. I have just had feedback from ESD, Apple - we (RMIT at least) should
consider ourselves LUCKY.  I quote...

"If you are not currently a MacX Site Licensee, you may sign a MacX 1.2
Site
License Agreement and pay a licensing fee of $150,000."

This must make me feel really lucky to be asked for a mere $25,000 just
to keep a license current.

There are two types of criminals which come to mind here.  Extortionists
and Pirates.  I am merging on opinion that the former are to blame for the
latter.

There is no doubt that pirates admit their criminal behaviour, they are at
least stereotyped that way.  It's about time extortionists are recognised
and labelled so.

I have a lot of respect for the creative genius within Apple (ie - the
technical folk).  However, I have no respect for the hollow rubbish that
surround them.

Paul Menon
pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au
Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology,
124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia
Ph: +61 3 660 - 3209/2348	Fx: +61 3 662 1617
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Mel Walker <mwalker@novell.com>
Subject: Re: Lets Screw Apple!!!
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A726B742A1031E08@mwalker.npd.provo.novell.com>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:12:34 GMT
Organization: Society for Anarchic Totalitarianism
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:13:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.010118.13352@nrc.com> Mike Goodglick, mikey@nrc.com
writes:
>Apple screwed us, how about us screwing them??!
>What I am talking about is MacTCP...The bozo's @ Apple are charging us
> for the 1.1.1 version, so why doesn't some brilliant hacker out there
>make a control panal
> that is similar to MacTCP 1.1.1. & is sharware??  This way, there are no
>copywrites
>busted.  If I had enough brains to hack something like this out...you bet
> would!!!

If it was worth someone's time write a MacTCP-API-compatible cdev, it
would have been written, and probably sold for about $5 less than Apple
sells it. Why don't you read up on MacTCP and the TCP/IP protocol and
write it? Or is it not worth that much to you?

--Mel Walker
mwalker@novell.com
Disclaimer: Some Martians landed and stole my opinions. So if these
opinions sound like they're coming from Mars, that's why.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: josteisv@dhhalden.no (JOSTEIN SVENDSEN)
Subject: Re: Applelink
Summary: Send to Applelink
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:11:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.045941.28810@eff.org> hshubs@eff.org (Howard Shubs) writes:
>From: hshubs@eff.org (Howard Shubs)
>Subject: Applelink
>Summary: Send to Applelink
>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:59:41 GMT
>Would someone please tell me how to send a message to someone on
>AppleLink?
>-- 
>Howard S Shubs      hshubs@eff.org            I don't represent the EFF,
>The Denim Adept     hshubs@denim.bcs.org      but I do agree with them.

It's very easy: applelinkadress@applelink.apple.com

You can find more information about mail to other nets in the InterNetwork 
MailGuide which is posted among the FAQs regularly.

Jostein :-D


----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jostein Svendsen             |                                     |
| <josteisv@sofus.dhhalden.no> |   I want to know God's thoughts...  |
| Ostfold Regional College     |       the rest is only details!     |
| Halden, Norway               |                                     |
| Student, Computer Science    |                           Einstein  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: kmarko@hpbs654.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko)
Subject: Re: MacTCP license fees & Eudora
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:23:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho

In article > sdorner@qualcomm.com (Steve Dorner) writes:
>Rumor has it Apple has decided to take the price of MacTCP through the
>roof.  I'm told that an internal use license for corporations has gone from
>$2500 *one-time* to $5000 *annually*.  Seemingly Apple would just as soon
>that no low-cost MacTCP software exist. Typical Apple policy--Free Bad,
>Expensive Good.

This is absurd; it runs exactly counter to the way I would expect Apple,
or any rational company to go.  I keep hoping that MacTCP will get 
bundled with the operating system so that I don't have to worry about
getting a new version every time the O.S. revs.  TCP/IP is a key network
technology, supported by every UNIX vendor (Apple's competitors) as 
part of their base O.S.; I would hope Apple would do the same.

Kurt Marko


Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:10727 comp.sys.mac.system:13825
From: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: ARA no longer bundled with Powerbooks!
Date: 7 Nov 92 09:34:09 GMT
Reply-To: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Organization: Network Analysis Ltd
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Nov6.105904.25173@dxcern.cern.ch> (comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.system), lishka@dxcern.cern.ch (Christopher Lishka) writes:

> However, it is also buggy and hard to install.  I installed on three
> machines (Mac IIcx, Mac IIci, PowerBook 170).  It refused to run with
> the System 7 tuner on the PowerBook.  I had to reinstall it twice on
> the Mac IIci to get it to work.  And it is the *ONLY* application that
> I have installed that has ever crashed the entire *installer* (on the
> Mac IIcx).

Pardon me? I use it every day on my PB170 7.0.1/tuneup 1.1.1 with no problems.
I had no problems installing it either. I suggest you look elsewhere for your
problems. I have installed it on an fx, PB170, IIci. All of them worked first
time.

> If you need ARA, the price is definitely worth it.  However, it should
> be considerably more "bug free" than it currently is.

The only bug I have encountered is a rather minor one: when you clear the
log file, no further data are written to it unless the log window is open
when a new connection comes in.


Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK

uucp:      ...!uknet!nan!sw  Phone: (+44) 203 419996
AppleLink: NAN.LTD           Internet: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.system
From: lishka@dxcern.cern.ch (Christopher Lishka)
Subject: Re: ARA no longer bundled with Powerbooks!
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:59:04 GMT

In <1CE00001.hqtf08@tbomb.ice.com> time@ice.com (Tim Endres) writes:

	>ARA is awesome and fairly priced for the functionality it
	>provides.  For those who *need* ARA, the price is cheap. For
	>those who want to "play" it is expensive, and this is as it
	>should be.

Also note that AppleTalk Remote Access was never bundled in Europe (at
least not in Switzerland).  It is indeed a useful and nicely designed
utility, and provides a good way to connect to a remote Mac.

However, it is also buggy and hard to install.  I installed on three
machines (Mac IIcx, Mac IIci, PowerBook 170).  It refused to run with
the System 7 tuner on the PowerBook.  I had to reinstall it twice on
the Mac IIci to get it to work.  And it is the *ONLY* application that
I have installed that has ever crashed the entire *installer* (on the
Mac IIcx).

Will the price is not that expensive (~$165 in the U.S.), it seems
rather a lot when one considers the bugs.  Are there any new versions
of ARA out there?

If you need ARA, the price is definitely worth it.  However, it should
be considerably more "bug free" than it currently is.

							.oO Chris Oo.
-- 
                                                           Christopher Lishka
 Never drive a car when you're dead...			   PPE Division, CERN
				-- Tom Waits		  lishka@dxcern.cern.ch
							     vxaluw::lishka
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: haase@meediv.lanl.gov (Peter Haase - LANL)
Subject: Re: MacTCP license fees & Eudora
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:50:52 GMT

In article <sdorner-101192120156@0.0.0.0>, sdorner@qualcomm.com (Steve
Dorner) wrote:
> In any case, Eudora will continue to be offered for free sans MacTCP.
> 
> --
> APPLE UNBUNDLES RETURN KEY
> 
> Cupertino, CA
> 
> Effective immediately, Apple Computer, Inc., has decided to unbundle the
> "return" key from Apple keyboards.  This allows us to lower the price of
> our keyboards by $.01.  Users wishing to buy a return key will be able to
> do so through their local Dealership.  The kits will cost $99.95 installed,
> and are expected to be available 1Q93.  "We think this will enable more
> users to get return keys," said Apple chairman Scully.  "Also, we want the
> money."

Good show Steve...... I think that Apple is trying to do in all the 
developers of Public Domain Software at the expense of the end users
and to the benefit of the so-called 3rd party Main Stream Developers.
We use Eudora and Fetch as a couple of our main Networking Tools. In
the past I have used various packages that cost mucho money such
as Intercon's package, and have yet to find anything that equals
Eudora and Fetch........Greed and Collusion is taking over.......
*******************************************************************
Peter Haase                                   haase@meediv.lanl.gov
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Mechanical Electronic Engineering Division
From: jrab@asi.com (Job Rabinowitz)
Newsgroups: inet.appletalk,comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: ** MAC/UNIX PRINTING PROBLEMS **
Summary: MAC print jobs interrupted by UNIX print jobs
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:17:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: asi.1992Nov6.211725.25057
Organization: Adaptive Solutions, Inc.,  Beaverton Oregon
Cc: jrab@asi.com

I may have been unclear in my last posting about this problem (which
has become critical now that we have more Mac users).  Let's try again:

	We are using CAP to allow UNIX users access to several 
	LaserWriters on our Appletalk network.  Those Macs running 
	system 6.x are able to print jobs without problems. Those 
	Macs running system 7.x print OK *unless* a job is queued 
	on the UNIX side. In those cases, the Mac job is interrupted, 
	the UNIX job starts printing, and the Mac user is notified 
	of an unspecified printer problem and asked to resubmit the job.

	This has only become a problem on those Macs upgraded or
	purchased with 7.0.1 with tuneup 1.1.1. Those Macs printed
	fine when they ran 6.x.  BTW - we are running SunOS 4.1.1
	and CAP 5.0.

Several folks in netland said that they have no problems using a
similar configuration.  Several other folks have said that they have
the same problem. 

Any great ideas for solving our problem?  We've looked at the PAP source
and found ourselves lost quickly.  Thanks in advance!

-Job-

ps - If you reply directly to me, please include your phone number.
     My net feed is *very* slow.
-- 
Job Rabinowitz					Phone:   [USA] 1+(503)690-1236
Adaptive Solutions, Inc.			FAX:     [USA] 1+(503)690-1249
1400 NW Compton Drive, Suite 340		Usenet:  jrab@asi.com
Beaverton, OR  97006				UUCP:    uunet!adaptive!jrab
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: eps@futon.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)
Subject: Re: Lets Screw Apple!!!
Reply-To: eps@cs.sfsu.edu
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:02:17 GMT

No, the original poster has a good point.  MacTCP wasn't the
first TCP/IP stack for the MacOS.  Had NCSA not produced their
free, public domain implementation, Apple might never have been
convinced that there was even a market.

MacTCP serves two purposes: (1) Apple was in the unique
position of being able to modify their OS in ways no one else
could, so they could produce an OS "extension" that "felt"
like part of the native OS rather than an afterthought.  If
you've had to struggle with TCP/IP on MSDOS, you should have no
trouble appreciating why this is A Good Thing.  (2) By providing
a single, standardized API (again, unlike the chaos in the MSDOS
world), application writers don't need to be concerned about the
lower levels of the protocol stack.  (In all fairness, Apple
did this twice over: in MS-DOS land, not only do you have
different and incompatible TCP/IP stacks to choose from, but at
the adapter level you also have PKTDRVR, NDIS, ODI, and a bunch
of proprietary driver interfaces.  Trying to get multiple
protocol stacks to exist on the same machine is sheer hell; on
Macs, it just works!)

Could a different TCP/IP implementation present a MacTCP
interface?  Of course!  That's exactly what happens on A/UX,
which uses the widely-accepted BSD networking code internally.

Mikey's right--someone could "clone" MacTCP starting with any of
the PD or freely redistributable reference implementations as a
base, and directly "compete" with Apple.

I'm extremely disappointed with the relatively few network
applications out there (I'm only talking quantity, not quality),
and making MacTCP any less accessible certainly isn't going to
help matters any.

Personally, I think Apple would be better off simply bundling
MacTCP with the standard system just as they do with AppleTalk.

With the MS-DOS world enjoying several good quality *free* TCP/IP
implementations (on better price/performance hardware), and the
UNIX community (also price/performance competitive with high-end
Macs) getting TCP/IP bundled, what does that say for Apple?  That
they're going after the "Nintendo" market?

					-=EPS=-
-- 
Every time NeXT does something truly stupid that makes people
talk about buying Macintoys instead, Apple does something truly
stupid to drive them back to the NeXT camp.  Like cockroaches
after nuclear annihilation, Windows NT may be the sole survivor.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:10662 comp.sys.mac.system:13733
From: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: ARA no longer bundled with Powerbooks!
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:10:53 GMT
Reply-To: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Organization: Network Analysis Ltd
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Nov05.035918.1355@edsi.plexus.COM> (comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.system), trimper@edsi.plexus.COM (Greg Trimper) writes:

> Now I am supposed to order ARA @$169/copy when I figured it into the
> price of the machines.  Not such a good deal after all.

Each copy of ARA comes with a 3-user licence. It is worth every penny.
Never again will I have egg on my face at a demo because I forgot to bring
that one vital file. These days, I am one phone call away from all my files.

Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK

uucp:      ...!uknet!nan!sw  Phone: (+44) 203 419996
AppleLink: NAN.LTD           Internet: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: EdSieg@world.std.com (Ed Siegfried)
Subject: Looking for AppleTalk conferencing
Summary: Is there a low-cost mail or BBS system for a Mac lab?
Keywords: AppleTalk, mail
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:56:12 GMT

I would like to find a BBS or simple e-mail system for a school lab
of 32 Macs connected to several other offices. A "user" would be defined
by a handle/password, not by a machine or station. This is so 200+ users
could exist.

Any references or ideas greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ed Siegfried
Milton Academy
Milton, Massachusetts
EdSieg@world.std.com
From: mike.kopp@gtri.gatech.edu (Mike Kopp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Mac Backup to a unix tape?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:50:09 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

We have several Macs with no reasonable method to back them up without
trying to back up a 100MB disk to 1.4M floppies.  We also have a Sun with a
2.3GB tape drive.  The PCs on our network use PC NFS to back up to the tape
drive.  I would like something similar for the Mac.  We have CAP installed
and could use MacDump however I would prefer something that the users could
do as opposed to something that the administrator would have to do. 
Besides, we can't always expect to have the disk space available to backup
and restore using MacDump.

The best solution would be software that makes a remote tape look like it
is local.  Then standard backup software could be used.  I've not heard of
anything like this.

Another reasonable solution would be software that allows a Mac to be an
NFS server.  Then we could mount the disk from our Sun and dump to tape.  A
couple of companies make NFS client programs for the Mac.  Does anyone make
and NFS server program for the Mac?  Alternatively is there any software to
allow our Sun (using CAP) to function as an AppleShare client?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

-----------
Mike Kopp                                    
Electronic Support Measures Laboratory   	       
Georgia Tech Research Institute 	       	       	mike.kopp@gtri.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: stone@athena.cs.uga.edu (Robert Stone)
Subject: AppleTalk Serial Port Sharing f/ Printers?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:42:27 GMT

I'm looking for a program of some kind that will allow a non-appletalk
capable printer (such as an ImageWriter without the LocalTalk option)
to be hooked to a mac running system 7 and accessed by other machines
on the same network.

Is there an Init/CDev/App that will do this?  If so, where can I obtain
it?  (Freeware solutions to this are preferable.)

Thanks for your attention.

R/s
From: casey@asi.com (Casey Bahr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Info on Mac Printers Wanted
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:14:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: asi.1992Nov10.221416.6118
Distribution: or
Organization: Adaptive Solutions, Inc.,  Beaverton Oregon


I'm just being introduced to Mac'dom, awaiting a newly purchased (used) SE.
I have some dumb questions related to printers that I hope someone can
help me with:

1. Is there a way to use my current parallel printer with the SE?  I
   need a serial/parallel converter, right?  Is a converter worth the trouble
   and expense, or is it more advantageous to get a Mac-compatible printer?
   Alternatively, can I use a "non-Mac-compatible" printer with a serial
   port without too much trouble?

2. If I get a different printer for the Mac, I don't want to spend much
   (naturually :)).  I've done some minimal checking of prices and between
   $195 and $400 I see these:
      Apple Stylewriter
      Seikosha Imagewriter-compatible
      Imagewriter I and II (not sure on the prices for these)
      HP Deskwriter

    Are there any things in particular to note about these printers?
    The Deskwriter is, what?, inkjet?  The others dot-matrix?  Are 
    there any particular features that make one or the other more
    suitable for, say, multi-font word processing or graphics?  I
    don't ask for much, I assume these are low-resolution devices.

Thanks for the bandwidth and any information you can supply, it's
much appreciated.

Casey Bahr  
casey@asi.com | ogicse!adaptive!casey | uunet!adaptive!casey 
Adaptive Solutions, Inc., 1400 NW Compton Dr. Suite 340, Beaverton, OR 97006  
VOICE: (503) 690.1236 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ FAX: (503) 690.1249
From: lim@merlion.CWRU.Edu (Hock Koon Lim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Mac IP?
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:30:32 GMT
Organization: Information Network Services, Case Western Reserve
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lim@po.CWRU.Edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlion.ins.cwru.edu


In article <Bx5E1t.7Fw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes:
$ Jim.Matthews@dartmouth.edu (Jim Matthews) writes:
$ 
$ >Encapsulating IP packets in AppleTalk is called MacIP or KIP (for Kinetics  
$ >Internet Protocol, since this scheme was first implemented in Kinetics  
$ >boxes).
$ 
$ Since we're picking nits....
$ 
$ Though you are right that MacIP is IP in AppleTalk, KIP is not. KIP
$ and IPTalk are equivalent, encapsulating AppleTalk in IP.
$ 

 
   MacIP is a TCP/IP software from Stanford University.  The current
release version is MacIP 4.0.2.  It run on Apple's MacTCP.  Hope this
help.

Thanks,
-- 
Hock-Koon Lim, Information Network services
Case Western Reserve University; Cleveland, Ohio, USA  44106   
(216) 368-2982        lim@ins.cwru.edu
From: a-kraus@uiuc.edu (Albert L. Kraus)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Internet connection to AppleLink?
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:32:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: pesa.a-kraus-051192113619
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: PES

Is it possible to write mail from internet to AppleLink addresses?
If possible please give me an example!

Thanks!
Have a nice day!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu (Dan Weiss)
Subject: How to run an INET BBS
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Chiba City
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:48:58 GMT

Ok, I've got a connection to Inet, and my own IP address.  I also have a
modem.  It seems to me, that with the right software, I should be able to
run a BBS with internet access.

That is, people could dial in to my machine, and then use my connection to
the interent for mail and maybe usenet.

Does anyone know if there is a BBS prog with Inet-TCP/IP capabilities?

-------------------------
Dan Weiss
Washington DC
Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu
Dweiss@auvm.american.edu
Flammable@IRC
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: mo@gizmo.bellcore.com (Michael O'Dell)
Subject: Re: Marketeers (was MacTCP license fees & Eudora)
Keywords: 
 
Reply-To: mo@bellcore.com
Organization: Center for Chaotic Repeatabilty
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:31:22 GMT

So while Apple is making it harder to use TCP on Macs, 
Microsoft is busily incorporating it into future products.
You get WinSockets and TCP as part of Windows/NT.

Even more interestingly, Microsoft annouced a "strategic
direction" to go with TCP for all their "major WAN/LAN
strategic products."

	-Mike

Bellcore?? Bellcore isn't allowed opinions - any here are mine.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: jeffc@comb1.comb.umd.edu (Jeff Clowser; IRG)
Subject: Re: Software appletalk/ethernet routing?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Maryland, Center of Marine Biotechnology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:31:00 GMT

In article <bill.721085100@castor>, bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes...
>Somebody mentioned that Apple had a software
>router package that readily converts appletalk packets
>to ethernet and basically does away with the need
>for expensive hardware routers.  Does anyone have
>information on this?  Is Apple the only one making 
>such a thing?
> 
>Specifically, he wants to have macs on different
>floors talking appletalk and ethernet, and he
>doesn't want to go out and buy scsi boxes for
>macpluses.
> 
>Thanks,
>Bill Eldridge
>-- 
>{{{{ bill eldridge                                       x                }}}}
>{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3960               xxx              }}}}
>{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
>{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}

Apple sells the Appletalk Internet Router (AIR).  Runs on a mac - put it on
one that is connected to localtalk and ethertalk nets (physically) and you
can route between both.

I think there are other products to do this - Liason I think is one, and I
think Sonic systems may sell something to do this also.

Jeff
Jeffc@comb1.comb.umd.edu