HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ralph@swmerc.rain.com (Ralph Merwin)
Subject: Questions...
Organization: Merwin Software Services, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:26:19 GMT


First off, I'm not sure if this is the correct forum.  If not, please
redirect me...

The brother of a friend of mine is getting taken to court (in Calif)
for yet another increase in child support.  He has (I think) two kids
from a previous marriage.  The former wife is remarried, the ex has some
ammount of inheritance, her husband makes a good income, and they have
a child between them.  The ex lives down in the south somewhere.

Rumor has it that the kids of the first marriage are the housekeepers
and babysitter for the baby.  There appears to be two classes of food
in the house - generic food for the kids and 'real' food for the adults.
I'm not sure about things like clothing, etc.

My friend's brother already makes quite large child support payments and
will be forced to move his current family out of their apartment into
smaller quarters if the court awards higher payments - he can't afford
any more.  He doesn't mind supporting the kids, he just doesn't feel that
his money is actually going towards their support.

What are the best approaches that he can use to stop his ex from getting
more child support?  I've suggested trying to show that she is not spending
the money on the kids, maybe getting a credit report or something...  Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Ralph

-- 
-------- DOS Windows - The worst plague ever let loose upon humans --------
Ralph Merwin               ralph@swmerc.rain.com               503-526-8647
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous)
Subject: Re: "Key children", children with parents at work.
Keywords: Children parents work
Organization: V. I. Corporation, Northampton, Massachusetts
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:46:58 GMT

karl@hsr.no (Karl Martin Lund) writes:

>Some friends of mine are working on a papir on what we in Norwegian call
>key-children. It's children in the age about five to twelve years who
>for some reason have no parents at home when they for instance arrive home
>after school. The reason may be that the parents are at work. The children
>then have their own key, and have to spend time on their own at home.

>They (my friends that is, not the children) are trying to find out if this
>will have any effect on the kids in any way.

>But these friends suffer from a lack of material. Is there anybody out there
>who are able to help out? If you've read any books or articles about this
>subject, or have any comments on your own, please mail me or send
>followups.

>BTW, is there an English term for key-children? 

Yes. They're called "latch-key" children.

>      __ -----------------------------------------------------------------
>     /// | Karl Martin Lund |   No DoD#    | Find no hope in nothing new |
>__  ///  |                  |              |  when I never had a dream   |
>\\\///   |   karl@hsr.no    | Honda VF750F |         come true      (ST) |
> \///    -----------------------------------------------------------------

--Mark
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: college money info
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:12:08 GMT



	More pertinant info regarding college expense and
	the courts attitudes.






(I am president of the XXXXXXXXX Council for Children`s Rights and
a "professional" member of the XXXXXXXXX Child Support Advisory
Commission.)

I have read comments from internet discussing the College child
support issue.
Unfortunately, I cannot post directly, but thought I ought to take
this opportunity to send e-mail.

The legal literature abounds with efforts to overturn educational
child support, made from about every angle one can think of on
constitutional grounds.
The most recent in XXXXXXXXX was Neudecker vs Neudecker 566 N.E. 2d 557
and 577 N.E. 2d 960, which was taken to the XXXXXXXXX Supreme Court.
It lost at the trial level, Appeals level and Supreme Court level.
Last I heard Neudecker was considering the U.S. Supreme Court, although
he must have spent at about twice the cost of college fees in legal
fees to date.  (guestimate ~ $30,000 +)
(If my memory serves me correctly he only has one daughter.)

     The problem with all attempts so far, which have basically hinged
on comparing the duties of married parents with divorced/never married
parents using equal protection or due process arguments, is that the
courts have always side-stepped by claiming that married parents and
single parents are different classes of people and thus equal 
protection and due process only apply in making sure that the people
within each class are treated in the same way.  People in different
classes do not have to be treated the same.

     I have also seen arguments not using the comparison of married
and single/divorce parents, but comparing the action of the State
towards foster children and those of single/divorced parent.  Again
the courts have ruled that these are different classes of Children/
adults.

     I have the Neudecker briefs and several other relevant briefs,
so if you ever do decide to proceed, contact me for further info.

     The only way around the issue in XXXXXXXXX we have decided is to
set up a set of college support guidelines, which approximates what
married parents actually do in real life.  These are now pending
ratification by the Supreme Court of XXXXXXXXX, and basically curb
the power of the trial court judges to levy excessive awards.

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:39:50 GMT
Subject: Men's Choice Media Opportunity! Act now!
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.child-support


                Men's Choice Media Opportunity

A freelance journalist working for a major magazine wants to interview men
who have interesting stories about being forced into fatherhood. In particular,
he's interested in men's feelings about being forced into fatherhood.

This is an opportunity to educate thousands of readers.

If you, or someone you know, has been forced into fatherhood, send me email.
I'll tell you who to call (collect).

Act now! Time is of the essence!

Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: Child-Support
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:20:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.191729.5752@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:

>Yes, we have a serious problem with welfare women in this country.  We also
>have a government that refuses to provide birth control for these women.
>Did you know that the list of women who would like to have the Norform
>birth control implants is enormous?  But our fundie controlled system
>refuses to fund any money for welfare women to get Norform implants, even
>though it only costs a mere fraction of the amount it takes to support a
>child until it is grown.

Can you post a source for this?  Do you know of any groups working to
provide government funding for Norform implants?  Does Planned Parenthood 
provide help to indigent women?  Do you know what the implant costs?

(These questions aren't "challenges," in case they sound that way...)

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
From: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:39:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov15.223913.23825
Reply-To: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Organization: University of Washington

I propose the following child support legislation.
   1. The courts should continue to award primary 
      custody to only one parent.
   2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
      not receive the primary custody from his 
      children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
      rights (visitation) and duties (child support).
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: "Key children", children with parents at work.
Keywords: Children parents work
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:13:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.082238.27983@hsr.no> karl@hsr.no (Karl Martin Lund) writes:
>
>BTW, is there an English term for key-children? 
>
>      __ -----------------------------------------------------------------
>     /// | Karl Martin Lund |   No DoD#    | Find no hope in nothing new |
>__  ///  |                  |              |  when I never had a dream   |
>\\\///   |   karl@hsr.no    | Honda VF750F |         come true      (ST) |
> \///    -----------------------------------------------------------------



	Latch-key!

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
From: cp7927@oktext.sbc.com (Caryn S. Prater)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Reply-To: cp7927@oktext.UUCP (Caryn S. Prater)
Organization: Southwestern Bell
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 03:34:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.223913.23825@u.washington.edu> zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
>I propose the following child support legislation.
>   1. The courts should continue to award primary 
>      custody to only one parent.
>   2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
>      not receive the primary custody from his 
>      children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
>      rights (visitation) and duties (child support).

First of all, do you have children of your own?  And secondly
what if the non-custodial parent does not want to be " divorced"
from his non-custodial parent?  And thirdly, why should the custodial
parent bare the complete financial burden of raising the child?
And finally, why should the child have to suffer financial hardship
because on parent is " let off the hook" so to speak?

Caryn

--
Nolite te bastardes carborunodorum
       Author unknown :-)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: Philip Barr <pbarr@convex.UUCP>
Subject: Re: Someone please help answer questions about support
Originator: pbarr@mikey.convex.com
Keywords: child-support, spousal support
Reply-To: pbarr@convex.UUCP (Philip Barr)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:27:18 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <klewis.38.722534844@AFIT.AF.MIL> klewis@AFIT.AF.MIL (Keith A. Lewis) writes:
>To anyone out there,
>
>  I have a friend who's ex-husband recently past.  She would like to know if 
>she and her kids are entitled to, and how much, social security.  She has 
>been divorced from him less than two months.  Enquiring minds would like to 
>know.  We need a lot of feedback.  


If either of the parents die the Social Security will pay the childern a
monthly benifit untill they turn 18 or 21 if a full time student.  The
payments will be paid to their legal guardian.  About the only thing you
will need is a certified Death certificate.  They will pay retroactively any
benefits so you do not have to hurry to get everything done.  The amount that
will be paid will depend upon how munch he paid in.  Any local SS office
can help and explain things to you.  If you can visit them and have a
death certificate everything can be setup on your first visit.

About the only thing you have to do each year after is fill out a form 
they send you.  They have you list what you received and what you spent for
each child.  You do not need detailed records, but it is a pain to fill out.
If you forget to do it, they stop benifits untill they recieve the form.
(it even says on the form that the information if voluntary :-)

-- 
Phil Barr 				I Know That You Believe You
Systems Specialist - CONVEX TAC		Understand What You Think I Said,
pbarr@convex.com			But I'm Not Sure You Realize That
(214)/497-4421				What you Heard Is Not What I Meant.
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Massachusetts gets tough -- and CSAM
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:18:56 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

smiles@NMC.ED.RAY.COM (Kevin Ruddy) writes:

> I hereby propose myself to perform activities on behalf of the Child Support
> Alliance of Massachusetts.  I don't have a lot of time, but I can't stand
> by idly any longer, wishing things would change.  I've got to do something.
> Nothing is ever going to change unless I (and any other MA [un]fortunates)
> get out there and start writing, calling, and speaking to the people who
> are responsible for this stuff.

I'm wondering (not criticizing or flaming) if it might be a good idea for
you folks to start a newsgroup or a maillist for the Massachusettes group.
There's always plenty of room for discussion here in these groups, but it
might help y'all localize and consolodate the work you're setting out to
do. 

The idea seems to have struck a positive note with quite a few people, and
even though I'm from Washington, your group plans sound really good to me.
I think local groups --able to deal with the specifics of a state-- are a 
much better alternative to national orgs who have to deal with a much more 
generalized agenda. A good 'for instance' is FACE in Ohio. I'm always im-
pressed with their work. As a matter of fact, you might ask Aaron Hoffmeyer 
for some tips on building your organization.

Anyway, just a thought. Does anyone else think this might be a good idea?
--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA 
Xref: sparky alt.child-support:3702 soc.men:19717 soc.women:20080 alt.dads-rights:2669
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Finally, action (Re: Massachusetts gets tough--and CSAM)
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:40:24 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:

> 	I appologize to Bob K. for only reading the first part of
> 	what he wrote and giving a somewhat curt response to his
> 	advice.

I must have missed it, so I don't suppose it's a big deal. (-:
No sweat Alan --go get 'em dude!

--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA 
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: rmk@doc.cray.com (Bob Kass)
Subject: Re: Country list of support groups.
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:54:19 CST

In article <1992Nov13.204008.26719@ll.mit.edu> yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>
>	This information is provided primarily as a beginning to
>	the effort of some statewide organization in Mass.
>
>	(stuff deleted)
>
>
>CHILDREN`S RIGHTS COUNCIL AFFILIATES
>
>
>The following is an up-to-date list of active groups working in
>the area of family rights, children`s rights.
>
>       (state-by-state listing deleted)

Alan,

I noticed your list lacked a group I'm aware of in Wisconsin:



WISCONSIN      Wisconsin Fathers' for Equal Justice
               PO Box 1741, Madison, WI 53701-1741   
               (608) 255-3237  ????????? ??????, President


I don't have the current president's name off the top of my head. William
Fetzner was past president and is editor of the newsletter "Todays Dad".


                                         *   *   *   *   *
                                           *    ~o.'   *   *
    Bob Kass                            *     .'// |      *
    rmk@els.cray.com                      *  /_/_>___,  *
                                           -------'


Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: karl@hsr.no (Karl Martin Lund)
Subject: "Key children", children with parents at work.
Keywords: Children parents work
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:22:38 GMT

Some friends of mine are working on a papir on what we in Norwegian call
key-children. It's children in the age about five to twelve years who
for some reason have no parents at home when they for instance arrive home
after school. The reason may be that the parents are at work. The children
then have their own key, and have to spend time on their own at home.

They (my friends that is, not the children) are trying to find out if this
will have any effect on the kids in any way.

But these friends suffer from a lack of material. Is there anybody out there
who are able to help out? If you've read any books or articles about this
subject, or have any comments on your own, please mail me or send
followups.

BTW, is there an English term for key-children? 

      __ -----------------------------------------------------------------
     /// | Karl Martin Lund |   No DoD#    | Find no hope in nothing new |
__  ///  |                  |              |  when I never had a dream   |
\\\///   |   karl@hsr.no    | Honda VF750F |         come true      (ST) |
 \///    -----------------------------------------------------------------
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Child-Support
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:23:58 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <By4Fup.355@cs.psu.edu>, beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
> In article <1992Nov21.191729.5752@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>>Yes, we have a serious problem with welfare women in this country.  We also
>>have a government that refuses to provide birth control for these women.
>>Did you know that the list of women who would like to have the Norform
>>birth control implants is enormous?  But our fundie controlled system
>>refuses to fund any money for welfare women to get Norform implants, even
>>though it only costs a mere fraction of the amount it takes to support a
>>child until it is grown.
> 
> Can you post a source for this?  Do you know of any groups working to
> provide government funding for Norform implants?  Does Planned Parenthood 
> provide help to indigent women?  Do you know what the implant costs?
> 
> (These questions aren't "challenges," in case they sound that way...)
> 

Don, Question one:  I'll have to look it up.  I know I saw info on it somewhere
but don't remember where.  Question two: Not as far as I know.  Question three:
Yes, Planned Parenthood has always supplied free birth control pills for
indigent women, I've helped a couple of them to get to the clinic so
they can pick up their pills.  Question four:  I think the whole procedure
costs around $700.  My info on that came from the same source as the info
to question one.  Unfortunately I have one of those garbage can memories,
all kinds of info collects there, but sources get forgotten.  I'll give
Planned Parenthood a call tomorrow and see if they have the info.

Sue
> Don
> -- 
> beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
From: rmk@doc.cray.com (Bob Kass)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:13:06 CST

In article <1992Nov15.223913.23825@u.washington.edu> zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
>I propose the following child support legislation.
>   1. The courts should continue to award primary 
>      custody to only one parent.
>   2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
>      not receive the primary custody from his 
>      children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
>      rights (visitation) and duties (child support).

EuStress strikes again!  Jeff, you're still beating the same old drum.

I would NEVER want to be separated in any manner such as you propose above.
Fighting for custody that I am likely to loose will NOT cause me to turn to
such extremes. I will maintain whatever contact I can and am pleased to be
able to help support my daughter. I may not LIKE having my access interfered
with and will not like how the CS $$ is spent. I DO love my daughter and no
matter how frustrated I am, she is NOT the one responsible for my frustration!
I want her as happy and well cared for as possible. 

Jeff, just because you desire such an arrangement, does NOT make it OK to 
suggest handing down such a decision on all NCP's following divorce.


                                         *   *   *   *   *
                                           *    ~o.'   *   *
    Bob Kass                            *     .'// |      *
    rmk@els.cray.com                      *  /_/_>___,  *
                                           -------'
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: jcollin@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY  COLLINS)
Subject: Child-Support
Originator: jcollin@c00092-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jcollin@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY  COLLINS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:28:58 GMT



 The issue of child-support is one that every tax-payer should be concerned
with. We live within a system that allows most women to cheat,lie and steal
from honest tax-payers by failing to help take responsibility for their
children. We live within a system that bascically says to a women it's
alright to stay at home and get welfare and just about every other kind 
of gov't aide, in fact you don't have to work at all,TAX-PAYERS will take care 
of you and your kids.After all we are a socialist country.The fact that well
put away fathers who don't help pay (notice i said help)is again a slap in 
the face of tax-payers.We spend over 20,000 dollars a year on parents who
don't pay child-support (mostly men) because they can't afford to take of
their child and a freeloader,who not only gets money from the father but the
gov't.We need to stop spending millons of dollars a year on putting people in jail,
and start addressing the issue of welfare fraud,that cost hard working
tax-payers hundreds of millions of dollars a year.People need to start becoming
responsible for their own childern, i don't any case where putting someone in jail
made them start paying support for his/her kids.That just isn't working,when is it
going to stop?,when we are spending a billion dollars a year on keeping fathers
who lost their jobs in jail because the couldn't pay for their child's as well as
the child's mother's living expenses.The only thing we are doing is creating a cycle
of spending that is going to catch up to us one day, and cause more problems than
it really needs to. 
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights
From: sga@cray.com (Steven G. Anderson)
Subject: SB1002
Reply-To: sga@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 23 Nov 92 09:59:23 CST


If this is a repeat, please excuse me.  My reading of these newsqroups is limited
these days.

On Friday I received a terse letter from Senator Wellstone (D-MN) regarding SB1002.
As I posted earlier, it was passed on voice vote in September.  The new information
is that President Bush signed the bill on October 25, 1992.  Maybe Orwell was just
off by a decade.

Steve Anderson

Newsgroups: alt.child-support