HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Subject: Re: Fraternities was (Re: still more practical jokes
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:17:11 GMT

garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey) writes:
>	*Sigh* That's the only thing that irks me about a lot of this.
>*Obviously* if we can't see the beauty and truth of the Greek system,
>then we must be embittered people... I disliked that garbage the first 
>time I heard it and my opinion hasn't changed since. 

>	Maybe he was like me, happily living under my squatter's rights
>in the dorms when the Greeks decided they wanted to move to the Southside
>dorms. We were told that we would be 'relocated'. 
[...]
>	On top of that, the Southside is very un-Greek (notice I said
>UN- not ANTI-). All in-dorm fraternities were Northside and the few
>Southside frats were located in their own houses in a separate block
>of dorms. We didn't *want* Greeks en masse in our dorms. But we were
>not really given a chance. Until we waged an extensive campaign against
>them. Instead of just leaving us alone, they decided that we 'needed to 
>experience Greeks and then we'd see the light' (An actual paraphrase from 
>a letter to the editor) Puh-lease. If you like being a lemming, fine. 
>I don't care. When not being provoked, I can even admit that a few are 
>kinda cool. :) But don't tell *ME* that I'm not 'enlightened' because 
>I don't want to join a bunch of girls that toss their hair and give 
>that annoying little squeak. 
[...]
>	What irritates me about Greeks? Their special priviledges. 
>They get Housing priority. And I just had to listen to them whine about
>Greek Week and got one of my exams rearranged because they couldn't
>handle their academics and be rabid Greeks at the same time. 
[...]

Wow -- is this common?  Here at Stanford, the university is definitley
somewhat anti-Greek, and things like this would be EXTREMELY unlikely.
Greeks have housing privileges only inasmuch as they already have the
housing, and the university has specifically said that it will _not_
increase the amount of fraternity housing or allow any increase in
on-campus fraternity housing. (there are no housed sororities at
Stanford -- I believe the same policies apply.)

Needless to say, this in and of itself creates some controversy,
especially when the University turns down an offer by a fraternity to
completely fund its own housing and increase the amount of
undergraduate housing at no cost to the university...

Many of the most influential people on campus are Greeks, but since
only 15-20% of the campus is Greek, they don't have that kind of
influence.  That's pretty scary...

Adam Elman
aelman@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: rbutera@barred.owlnet.rice.edu (Rob Butera)
Subject: Re: Sorority/Fraternity crap!
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:32:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.013304.22962@oz.plymouth.edu>, s_ritz@oz.plymouth.edu (Scott A. Ritz) writes:
>      Does anyone know if any Greek organizations have restrictions on
> the type of people their members can go out with? I hope to God that
> this doesn't happen often. I miss her alot and I just wish that she
> could become an individual again. We went out for three years and
> were planning to get married. The Greeks ended our realtionship in just
> three months. Go ahead and debate me folks! I have the hard evidence
> against the Greek system.

Some do, though its more like a social thing than something explicitly
written out.  Some of the sororities (not all) at my undergraduate school
were classic examples of what you just described.  Typically, a greek
system will have a group of "stereotypical" fraternities and sororities
who only socialize within their small segment of the school's population,
and they all "fit" the stereotype - its peer pressure all over again.  
Clothing styles, manner of dressing, what their idea of a good time is, etc.
I'm NOT saying all sororities are this way, but some are.  A few brothers
in my fraternity dated girls like this (these "girlfriends" were great
but never wanted to be seen in public at our house...).  We even had a 
name for it.  It was the "bowhead transformation."

Once again, this only describes SOME sororities (my girlfriend wasn't in a
sorority like that).

-- 
Rob Butera - ECE grad student   Rice University, Houston, TX   rbutera@rice.edu

Posing nude in _Playboy_ was "probably the best time of my life - except for
when I found God." - Jessica Hahn
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 13:57:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.205133.5132@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>4) can be avoided sometimes, but not always. I remember a beautiful piece
>of data a stats prof of mine brought in. The corelation was a perfect 1
>(that means that the corelation was perfect, no deviations whatsoever,
>for the stats impaired out there ;-)
>	The data corelated (with no deviations) the number of births in 
>Copenhagen with the number of stork sightings. According to this data, then, the number of stork sightings had something to do with the number of live births..
>Bear that in mind when you discuss stats.

Beautiful, Mike.  Also, quite irrelevant.  I've given citations to the
empirical research demonstrating the link between fraternities and rape
that goes well beyond the "coincidence" that fraternity members are far
more likely to rape.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "Question whether attorney's filing claim for 'stud fee'
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  as countersuit to paternity action was improperly
U o' C Law Skool   +  motivated required remand."  Headnote 9, Committee on
Chi, IL 60637      +  Legal Ethics of WVa State Bar v Douglas, 370 SE2d 325.
From: jeremiah@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Steam Tunnels
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:36:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: yang.1992Apr7.193609.16805
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

Watch out in the tunnels, folks.  You may not realize it, but any actual 
steam heat conduit tunnels built before 1973 probably contain pipes 
sheilded with asbestos insulation.  It takes 49 hours for a particle of 
asbestos to settle.  If there are air currents, then kicking up the 
asbestos dust on the floor will also make you breathe it.  Use an 
OSHA/NIOSH certified dual-filter cartridge resperator, and brush off well, 
outside, before removing the mask.

At Earlham, tunneling is really popular, and the tunnels are full of 
asbestos.  I was assigned to chart the tunnels by the college, and to do 
it I needed a full isolation system.

Nothing, however can protect you from a steam break.  In the even that one 
of those pipes bursts while you are down there, you will be cooked alive.  
There is no way that you could escape in time to avoid being smothered and 
burnt by the steam.  Steam breaks are rare, but not unheard of.
-- 
Jeremiah Wilton    "jeremiah@yang.earlham.edu"    "jeremiah@earlham.bitnet"
Xref: sparky soc.college:1967 talk.rape:914
From: es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg)
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:18:51 GMT
	<1992Apr15.015858.29709@midway.uchicago.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> >It doesn't. EXCESSIVE cigarette smoking causes lung cancer.
> 
> By Erik's proposed standard, excessive cigarette smoking doesn't cause lung
> cancer, either.

Just for the record, there have been studies which state that genetics
cause both lung cancer and a penchant for smoking; thus excessive
cigarette smoking isn't a cause of lung cancer, but another result of
the cause of lung cancer.


for a good time, call                       _____            __   ___ 
(412) 268-5534 (CMU-5-KEG)                 /__    /   /  /  /_/  /__
$5.00 / min., $25 minimum                 /      /_  /__/  /    ___/ @cmu.edu
Organization: Sophomore, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.college
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:25:57 -0400 
From: Andrew Harrison Betts <ab39+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sorority/Fraternity crap!
Distribution: na

On 14-Apr-92 in Sorority/Fraternity crap!    
user Scott A. Ritz@oz.plymout wines:
>    Well I have managed to keep out of the Greek college conflict on this
>newsgroup for awhile. I guess I have a question and a gripe to level at
>the various Greeks who post on the net. This spring, my ex-girlfriend
>decide to pledge for a sorority at her school in upstate New York. I
>oppsed her decision vehemently because of my distaste and disgust for
>the Greek system in general. I finally gave in, and I trusted her to
>make a good decision. My attitude was that I would give the Greeks a
>chance this time. Maybe there is something positive about the whole deal?
>    As you may have guessed things did go wrong. Just like night and
>day, my girlfriend's personality changed significantly. Suddenly I was
>non existant, and her sorority was far more important than her family itself.
>Furthermore her grades took a tremendous dive. A strait A student
>failed her mid terms. Before the Sorority, she would not even consider
>failing any test.
>    She continued to degrade into a self righteous and egotistical
>Greek. Last Thursday I received the old, " Lets see other people deal".
>She claims its not a result of her pledging. It seems quite obvious
>that it is. I didn't fit into the image of the proper boyfriend that a pledge
>should go out with associated with this sorority.
>     Previous to her pledging we both loved eachother very much. I
>still love her very much, and it is a shame what peer pressure can do
>to rational thinking people. My girlfriend became what she swore to me
>she wouldn't be. She became a group. The beautiful woman that I so
>much loved was replaced be three fucking letters. That is disgusting.
>I can't help being angry.
>     Does anyone know if any Greek organizations have restrictions on
>the type of people their members can go out with? I hope to God that
>this doesn't happen often. I miss her alot and I just wish that she
>could become an individual again. We went out for three years and
>were planning to get married. The Greeks ended our realtionship in just
>three months. Go ahead and debate me folks! I have the hard evidence
>against the Greek system.

Oh God, this wise young lady has obviously outgrown a whiny wuss of a
boyfriend and I, for one, commend her.  If your relationship couldn't
stand up to the physical seperation and her membership in an
organization, how could it ever have survived children, econemic
hardship and inlaws.  Yes some women's fraternities have restrictions on
their member's boyfriends - They must have a BACKBONE!!!  Grow up and
learn to tie your own shoes, maybe momma can get you a new girlfriend! 

Peace
-Andy


PS I apologise for the flame fest, but you brought it on yourself  tough guy.
From: tgpt_ltd@creb.cc.rochester.edu (Tom Guptill)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.college.folklore,alt.flame.spelling
Subject: Re: Not About Fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:43:44 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Apr16.062815.8361@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Incidentally, 92S00302, if that is your real name, the carriage return key
>is on the right side of the keyboard.  Even though it has two syllables on
>the label, you shouldn't have trouble finding it.  Maybe you can buy a
>friend with opposable thumbs to help.
>
	Actually, judging by the formatting of that article, it was typed on
a 132 column terminal and the formatting was probably quite correct.  

>Funny how I get flamed for talking about nothing but fraternities (as if
>this was the only group I would post to), and then get flamed for *not*
>posting about fraternities.

	Does that tell you something?

--
|Thomas Guptill     | University of Rochester Class of 1995                |
|CPU Box 277445     | INet:  tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu               |
|Rochester, NY 14627| Mom:   aprint::wins%'tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu'|
|(716) 274-3378     | Jess:  tgpt_ltd%uhura.cc.rochester.edu@husc3         |
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Subject: Re: Fraternities was (Re: still more practical jokes
X-Post-Machine: yukon.scl.cwru.edu
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 19:13:18 GMT

aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman) writes:
>
>Wow -- is this common?  Here at Stanford, the university is definitley
>somewhat anti-Greek, and things like this would be EXTREMELY unlikely.
>Greeks have housing privileges only inasmuch as they already have the
>housing, and the university has specifically said that it will _not_
>increase the amount of fraternity housing or allow any increase in
>on-campus fraternity housing. (there are no housed sororities at
>Stanford -- I believe the same policies apply.)

	Well, actually, the frats *do* have problems getting their
own houses here. We are in the middle of Cleveland and we don't have 
much room to expand. We wouldn't have minded Greek members in the dorms;
just the entire organization in the dorm, occupying a goodly hunk of it.
Hard to cultivate dorm spirit when half of your dorm is part of their
own exclusive little clique. This does create problems when frats
insist on living together - we don't have all that much space and 
last year, some poor schmucks got stuck in Temporary Housing because
we ran out of space. 

>Many of the most influential people on campus are Greeks, but since
>only 15-20% of the campus is Greek, they don't have that kind of
>influence.  That's pretty scary...

	Only ~25% of our campus is Greek. Max.
--
"Oh beloved ice cream bar, how I love to lick your creamy center!"| Heather
"I've been bad, Ren. You'll smack me!"  "You stoopid eeeediot!"   | "Moose"
"Remember, kids -- Only five more days to Yak-Shaving Day!"       | Garvey
"Squeak! Squeak! Squeak, I tell you!" "Happy, happy. Joy, joy"    | R&S in '92!
From: amr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ANTHONY MICHAEL RUTCH)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: beer slides are in
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:27:06 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

try beer sliding.  fun. do it naked. do it clothed.
-- 
               TONY, TONY, TONY
               BROADHEAD 312
               758-1378
From: franko@cco.caltech.edu (Frank Joseph Filipanits)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Hey, any U. of Miami (Fla) students out there?
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:13:24 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

Greetings!   

I just got accepted to the M.S. Music Engineering program at U of M and am
really looking forward to next year... But I know that the school's info
regarding housing and student life, etc. can be biased sometimes.

So, I'd like to hear what U of M is _really_ like, and particularly
the various housing options (Stanford Residential Singles, Apt. 43 rooms,
or off-campus housing).  Mind you, I'll be a grad turkey, so it might be
a little different from undergrad housing.  Any info is still appreciated!

Thanks much>>
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Frank Filipanits         Sr EE/CS/Music, California Institute of Technology
'68 Mustang 302           '81 Kawasaki 750 LTD           Ibanez Roadstar Bass
franko@tybalt.caltech.edu   "Why should I believe what they say?..."
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: hts1@quads.uchicago.edu (Thomas H. Song)
Subject: Lighten up, have some fun...(frats)
Keywords: fraternities 
Reply-To: hts1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 05:35:15 GMT

I've been following the whole fraternity thread(s) for a bit now and 
it seems that a lot of you are pretty set in your ways.

I see that Ted Frank attends the U of C, but this applies to all those 
who are anti-greek, so I'm posting this instead of e-mailing it to him.

Ted,

You really seem to be hung up on this issue.  Really, one great thing that 
everyone seems to be missing is the fact that Greek provide a great social
asset to University life.  And really, on most campuses if you rush hard
it's unlikely that you will not be pledged by at least one house.  I really 
think that you should perhaps attend one of our parties and see how 
diverse the brotherhood and the people who attend the parties are.  

Okay, maybe there are some serious problems with Greek systems like the one
described in this month's Esquire (on college life, BTW) where the Alabama
"Machine" controls campus politics.  I think that the pro-greek people have 
shown the beneficial aspects of fraternities pretty well.  So I'd simply 
like you to come on by sometime this quarter and have a bit of fun along 
with the 400-600 other people that we draw at a typical party.

By the number of posts you have, you must have some free time to come to 
a fraternity party.  Who know?  Maybe you too can have fun?  

Tom (2-5233)  Alpha Delta Phi

Xref: sparky soc.college:2016 talk.rape:933
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:08:38 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr16.200841.5124@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>Actually, I understood this is what Ted was getting at. Yes, I think it is
>likely. I took a course studying experimental design, and one of the first
>things we learned was "if you don't have a random sample, your data is 
>meaningless". Ted's datais an excellent basis on which to say fraternity 
>members are more likely to commit a rape that is, in turn, likely to be
>reported, but tha's all its good for.

If we make the reasonable assumption that a fraternity rape is no more
likely to be reported than a non-fraternity rape, we can extend the use
of the data farther.

Or, if you prefer, we can use studies that only interview *men*.  The
Garrett-Gooding & Senter study I cited in a different post found that
fraternity men were three times more likely to report having forced
intercourse.  More details when I get a chance to read the study more
thoroughly.

>> It may also be a combination of the two.  Now, if you want to assert
>> that (2) is the case, that's fine.  The numbers that Ted presented
>> show that, for (2) to be the case, women would have to be 5 times more
>> likely to report a rape by a fraternity member.  What basis is there
>> for this hypothesis?
>
>The data says that a rape that is reported is 5 times as likely to be 
>reported. 

Actually, it's infinitely more likely to be reported than a rape that
isn't reported, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Now, keep in mind that these were rapes reported to the university, which
is a greater number than the rapes reported to the police, which is where
the 10-20% statistic comes from.  If we start assuming (not unreasonably)
a 30-40% report rate, suddenly you have to pretend that fraternity rapes
are reported more than 100% of the time to explain away the *huge*
difference in rape numbers between fraternity and non-fraternity people.

>That's a good start to work with a hypothesis like (2).

Except we have no reason _ex ante_ to suspect (2), and every reason to
suspect that fraternities are more likely to rape given the huge set
of anthropological data on rape worldwide.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "Question whether attorney's filing claim for 'stud fee'
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  as countersuit to paternity action was improperly
U o' C Law Skool   +  motivated required remand."  Headnote 9, Committee on
Chi, IL 60637      +  Legal Ethics of WVa State Bar v Douglas, 370 SE2d 325.
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: icmgr081@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: MCAT
Reply-To: icmgr081@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: MSU
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:10:39 GMT


Are there any special groups discuss MCAT and admissions to medical colleges ?
Please send me that information.
If you know any information about MCAT, send me that information too. I will
appreciate your help in this regard.

Thanking you in advance
Prasad_s

e-mail: Icmgr081@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu

Xref: sparky soc.college:1909 talk.rape:886 soc.women:8911
From: psbayer@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul S. Bayer)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Guys... Please take it outside.....
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:44:13 GMT
Organization: UB

Both of you people... Liz, Heather. Dave whatever your names are - you
obviously know each other, and you are fighting a war I don't care about.
Please stick to the thread, or at least something of use beyond your petty
bickering. I happen to side with the idea that no one is perfect. Teacher or
student. I will eventually be a Sociology Prof. somewhere and I can understand
that teachers should be excited about what they teach. Beyond that - who is
fuigting with whom is not the rest of teh world's concern!

No flaming meant by this, just wanted to put this into perspective ok??

- The New Sociologist at UB             - funky saying
v083kgy6@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu            - funkier disclaimer
psbayer@lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu           - something else cool to fil space
From: motim@techunix.technion.ac.il (Moti M)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: EE at Stanford UNiv
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:04:26 GMT
Reply-To: motim@techunix.technion.ac.il (Moti M)
Distribution: soc.college.grad
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

I am looking for the telephone, or bitnet of the graduate admission of
the EE departmant at Stanford University.  Please reply by email to

motim@tx.technion.ac.il

thanks

moti
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
From: disc5e6@rosie.uh.edu (92S00302)
Subject: Re: fraternities
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:36:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.165918.10584@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>In article <cdukYxq00WB9MxSnpE@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>>In regards to the flames concerning rape & fraternity involvement, I'd
>>like to make a few points.
>>
>>1) If one individiual chapter does indeed have a penchant for
>>committing rape, this does not imply that any other chapter (even of
>>the same fraternity) does as well.
>>
>>2) If a Greek system as a whole has a penchant to commit rape, this
>>does not imply that Greek systems everywhere do as well.
>>
>>3) If several Greek systems have penchants to commit rape, this does
>>not imply that all Greek systems do.


> 
>By this standard, cigarette smoking doesn't cause lung cancer, either.
>-- 
>Ted Frank          

 Wow Ted how long did it take you to come up with that incorrect analogy?
The correct analogy would be: If several types of smoking material 
cause cancer it does not mean they all do.  And since I.ve never seen
conclusive proff that all types of smoking matrerial(different brands of 
cigarrettes, cigars, pipes and pot) have the EXACT same effect on the lungs
it would seem to follow that all different types of greek systems (and yes there 
are different types.  A greek system at one university varies greatly from that
at others I have first hand experience on this point) cannot be found to
have the same effect on rape.  A study on one frternity or system can only
be applied to that system, not all of them.  Trying to ignore this only
undermines the respectability of the results for that instance.
So stop it with the emotional one-liners and get back to trying to defend your
point.

Ken
disc5e6@jetson.uh.edu
Alumni of
Phi Mu Delta, Mu Epsilon chapter at PSU.