From: rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Macedonian recognition (was Re: The Aboriginal Government ...)
Keywords: Macedonia, Bulgaria, WWI, WWII
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:28:51 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <5860@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:
>In article <389.2116.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) writes:
>
>[deleted]
>
>>  In any case, whether 2 or 3 foreign govmnts have recognised "M" is
>>  unimportant. They have done so for political reasons and not because the
>>  facts have compelled them to do so. Bulgaria's actions are clearly
>>  self-serving,
>
>You may have a very clear view of the actions of the Bulgarian government
>but a lot of people don't. 

	Are you among these people? Could you tell us whythe Bulgarian
    government did not recognize a Macedonian nation?

>>  Minority" in Greece. In a previous message you also talked about
>>  "deportations" of Slavic populations. Please go back to your history
>>  books. In 1913 there was a full population exchange agreed upon by
>>  both parties. Before then, there were Greeks living in Vardar, and
>>  Bulgarians and Serbs lived in S.Macedonia. Treaties were signed between
>>  Greece and Serbia that reversed that. Are you suggesting that the 1913
>>  population was either a) not mutually agreed upon and peacefully carried out,
>>  or b) not 100% complete? What proof do you have? What would be Greece's
>>  motive not to complete its obligations under the 1913 treaty?
>
>I've noticed that many netters think that after the population exchanges,
>no Bulgarian Macedonians remained in Aegean Macedonia. However, that's not
>true. Unfortunately I can't find references at present, but the numbers I
>remember were in the range of 60 - 80 000 Macedonian Bulgarians who
>remained in Greece after WWI.
>

	Correct. Even though a full population exchange was agreed, it
    was not carried out completely by the greek government. Your numbers
    are also correct: about 80,000 slavs (not just Bulgarians) were not
    forced to immigrate. Many of them felt Greek anyway, so the greek
    government lost interest in pursuing this any further.

	During the civil war that raged in Northern Greece, some of these
    slavs joined the communists. And with the defeat of the communists,
    they fled to the neighbour communist countries. Many of the slavs,
    however, took side with the greek republican army.

>
>Once again - not a good knowledge of what the real story was. Hitler wanted
>to have access to the Aegean (and to Greece i.e. the same). And the only
>way for the German soldiers was via Bulgaria (as there were no good roads
>and railways in Vardar Macedonia). So - Bulgaria (de facto leaded by King
>Boris III) had 2 choices - to accept an "offer" by Hitler - (Macedonia +
>Thrace) in return for signing a pact with the Axis Powers or to refuse the
>"offer" and stand against the German army. Nobody (amongst the rest of the
>Big Powers) offered some protection or alternative to Bulgaria and adding
>to the heavy economic dependency of Bulgaria from Germany there was one way
>only ... Accepting the lesser of the two evils (in terms of loss of life
>and destruction of the country), Boris III continued ruling Bulgaria (an
>alternative would have been a puppet Nazi-controlled government) by playing a
>very dangerous but successful game with Hitler.

	Oh! Give us a break! You could have taken an example from Greeks
    the year before. The Italians asked Greece to surrender. So the
    Greeks had two choices: (a) surrender to a greater power, without 
    loss of human life, or (b) fight. And the Greeks fought. 

	Then came the Nazis. And they asked control of ports, roads and
    airports. They said they wanted Greece only as a way to transport
    materials to their combatands in north africa. They wouldn't harm
    Greece. And guess what was the answer.

	This was the poorest excuse I have heard for the Bulgarian
    involvement. And I bet that your post was seen as very shameful
    by many Bulgarians. Even I do not believe that Bulgarians are
    cowards.

	No, the reason for the Bulgarian siding with the Axis powers
    was the annex of eastern Macedonia with Bulgaria. And the Bulgarian
    army tried to bulgarize the people. There were massacres of the
    whole male population in Kalpaki, Drama (a big city) and other
    villages. They starved to death large numbers of the rural population
    by disallowing access to the farms. Countless other atrocities.

	No. The Bulgarian siding with the Axis powers was earnest.

>In this game (there is a
>book about it, called the "Cat and mouse game" - in German) Boris III
>refused to accept all major Nazi's demands and at the same time portrayed
>the situation as being 100% loyal to the German cause, which he was
>convinced (as he has said it once early during WWII) to be lost.  Despite
>having formally it's own territories (won from the Ottomans during the
>first Balkan war) back, it was the Germans and not the Bulgarians who ruled
>conducted Vardar and Aegean Macedonia.
>

>>                So much blood has been spilled in the name of "re-uniting
>>      Macedonia".
>
>True. Let's never allow (if we can) blood to be spilled again.
>
>>Michael
>
>Luben

	Yes. Our past has been dreadful. We have come to a point that
    we can live without war. Let's improve on it.


	Georgios