From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: buying a new car
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:52:49 GMT
Organization: RICOH California Research Center

joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins) writes:
> I am likely buying a new car in the next 30 days.
> I am shooting for an end-of-model-year sale, just before
> the `93s go on sale.
> 
> I *hate* overpaying on cars and would like any tips,
> suggestions, etc for when I deal with the car sales
> critters. I will have an 1987 Maxima (70,000 miles, loaded)
> as a trade in. The tradein value is probably $5000-6000 on the
> car.
> 
> 1-is there an 800# I can call that will direct me to a dealer
>   where I can avoid the whole sales game and just pay a nominal
>   amount above wholesale?

   A Saturn dealers is almost guaranteed to sell for the list price
   only.  Their markup is one of the more modest.  I would suggest that
   you buy the car you really want though.  I don't reccomend Saturns, nor
   do I dis-reccomend them (just not my cup of oil:-))

> 2-Failing that, I plan to *know* the wholesale price of the
>   car I wish to buy and negotiate up from that.
>   My tactic will be as follows:
>   A-walk in wife and whenever salesman attempts to be overly
>     positive, have her say things like:
>     'Too much money'
>     'I like XXX better'
>     'I don't like this style'
>     'We can't afford it'

    I'v heard this can work well.




>   B-Ask to see the wholesale price and discuss their profit.
>     Show them my view of the wholesale price.
>     Ask about incentives between the dealer and the
>     manufacturer.

    Beware of suspicious add-ons to the invoice, such as advertising
    fee, or in some cases "dealer profit".  Be sure the invoice is the
    official one from the maufacturer.  The cost info you can obtain
    independently is safer though.

>   C-Discuss other nearby dealers offering the same car and why
>     I should buy here.

     Nah, just go to the other dealers with the last dealer's offer.
     They may want to under bid it.

>   D-Discuss financing, leasing options. This should make them
>     more flexible on the car price since they will hope to make
>     it up in the financing/leasing of the car.


      NO NO NO.  OK, you can tell them that you are thinking of financing
      (etc.) with them, but don't negotiate ANYTHING until the price of the
      car is fixed.  

>   E-Decide on final price of car. 
>   F-Mention Tradein and get a quote from them.

     Not bad.  You knew not too include the trade in price negotiation.
     If you did, they would just undervalue your trade to get more $$
     out of you.  But, I am almost positive that you will not like their
     trade offer.  You are much better off selling it yourself.

      Let's ay that you can get exactly what the car is worth from an
      independent buyer, and so can the dealer. Based on that (slighty
      off) assumption, the dealer would have to give you less in order 
      to make a profit.  Getit?


>   G-Show them evidence for my value of the tradein
>     Agree on a tradein price.

      They won't care much about your evidence.  They will only buy your
      car if they think they'll make a good profit on it.

>   H-Tell them I will buy RIGHT NOW if they meet my
>     price requirements, again mentioning options on
>     financing and leasing.
>     Ignore anything the salesman says like
>       'My manager won't sell the car at that price'
>     Ignore anyone else who may try to 'close' the sale
>       at a higher price.
>     Ignore conversations about rustproofing, sound-deadening,
>       extended warranties, although show interest in them
>       until I finally agree on the new car price itself.
>   I-Shake hands on the agreed upon prices and tell them
>      thanks.
>   J-Pay cash when all is said and done. Skip financing and
>     leasing options (usually bad ideas for customer). 
> 
> Can anyone offer other tips/suggestions?

  My suggestions:

    *DO*

     Step 1.  Figure out *EXACTLY* what you want including options.

     Step 2.  Determine the dealer cost of vehicle and dealer cost of
              options before going to the dealer.

     Step 3.  Determine *EXACTLY* what you are willing to pay.

     Step 4.  Find a dealer who has *EXACTLY* what you want.

     Step 5.  Make sure the dealer knows how to reach you.

     Step 6.  Make an offer below what you are willing to pay.

     Step 7.  Iterate your offer (if refused) up to your limit.

     Step 8.  If your final offer was refused, say "thanks, but its too
              much and I'm going to buy something elsewhere"

     Step 9.  Wait for a better offer in the next few days.



     *DONT*

          1. Finance through the dealer
          2. Trade your old car to the dealer



     You mentioned some tricks like bringing someone to do the god (cop)
     customer - bad (cop) customer thing with you.  There are alot more.
     You can look at other cars first, and not let them know you have a
     specific model and options in mind.   I test drove only a nissan
     pickup 20 minutes before buying an SE-R from the same guy.

     In fact, there are alot of tricks that I've heard of, and though
     they seem to make sense,  one can't know that the trick itself had
     anything to do with the price agreed upon, so it is difficult to tell if
     these tricks really work.  I think its best to, let them have 1-3%
     over the (real) dealer cost, and not do business with them if they won't
     accept it.  If you strike out with a great number of dealers with
     this strategy, then it is just clear that you will have to pay more.  So
     adjust your expectations and try again.
     
Newsgroups: rec.autos