From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
Subject: RE: Messianic Front [NOT!]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:44:17 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Research

In article <9204151801.AA03849@abvax.icd.ab.com>, "20583, BENNING, BRUCE" <abvax!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!benning> writes:

|> 
|>  OK. But my response came because you said that Messianic Congregations
|>  and "Jews for Jesus" were "fronts." I took that to imply that those in
|>  the membership and leadership were not Jew's but Gentiles who pretend
|>  to be Jew's for the purpose of conversion <wink>,<wink>.
|>  I contend that these organizations are not fronts.

I didn't say the Gentiles pretend to be Jews.  The group
pretends that their religion is a sect of Judaism.

But you contradict yourself later in the same posting!

You're not Jewish, right?  You didn't grow up Jewish or
Messianic.  Your wife didn't accept Jesus.  So *why in
the world did you choose to join a Messianic organization*?
Why didn't you join the local Congregational Church or
whatever, and let your wife take the children to
a synagogue or Hebrew day school for their Jewish education?
Obviously it's because want to convert your wife through
your children.

|> >|>
|> >No.  You say your wife's brother is Messianic.  Was your wife
|> >Messianic when you married her?  If so, and you were a Gentile
|> >Christian and you considered converting to Judaism, then
|> >I've learned something new about Messianic Jews.  Do they
|> >convert Gentile Christians to Messianic Judaism?
|> >
|>  1) Neither I or my wife believed in Yeshua when we were married.
|>     My wife was (still is) Jewish. I was just a Gentile pagan.
|>     I was not a believer until 1 and 1/2 years of marriage. And that
|>     came from my own seeking and finding (Jeremiah 29:11-13).
|>     I was CHANGED from self-centered paganism to a relationship
|>     with the G-d of creation, the G-d of Israel through
|>     faith in Messiah Yeshua.
|> 
You were brought up pagan??  Which movement of paganism did you follow?


|>  brother is very smart. Graduated in the top 10 of his class in business
|>  college. So the claim that only the uneducated fall for Jesus failed the
|>  duck test.
I think most of us who bring up the point about education mean
Jewish education.  All I know about your brother-in-law's
ties to Judaism is that his sister chose to marry a pagan.


|> >
|>  That will be up to my daughter(s). At our Congregation, we don't
|>  Bat Mitzvah the girls unless they want one. Also, (IOHO) my wife
|>  and I are bringing our children up Jewish. We just leave out the
|>  Mistake about +Jesus+ NOT being the Messiah. =-)

Is this only for girls or is Bar Mitzvah also optional?

I don't believe that you and your wife are bringing your
children up Jewish "except for the mistake about Jesus".
I don't think that you know enough about Judaism to
assert that.  Please explain in what way (unrelated
to the bit about Jesus) you are bringing them up
Jewish.  I'm sure you also leave out the "mistake"
about the need to follow the mitzvoth.  Celebrating
Jewish holidays at the Messianic church doesn't count.



-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598