From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: nihongo no shaberu gaijin
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:43:07 GMT

In article <MS-C.713679250.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:

>However, I've observed any number of times how many self-proclaimed
>`fluent in Japanese' individuals are a good deal worse.  They may have
>a fair amount of grammar and even kanji down, but their pronunciation
>is atrocious!

>I suspect that there's only a dozen or so non-native speakers who can
>be considered to be truly fluent in Japanese.

I'd put the number several orders of magnitude higher.

>Hint on whether or not you need pronunciation practice.  If you call a
>bilingual Japanese on the phone and he immediately switches to English
>upon hearing your `moshi-moshi', you need work.

Bear in mind that phone Japanese is very "formula". I've had conversations on
the phone at both my former companies that lasted up to 40 minutes before the
other person asked my name. When I gave it, there was always pause, a request
to repeat it, and then a very polite "Are you a foreigner?". And I consider
myself only moderately fluent. Some of my friends were (are) FAR better than
I shall ever be.

BTW, at work, you very seldom use "moshi-moshi". The phone is usually answered
with "Hai (optional)! (Company name) de gozaimasu!" The caller usually responds
with "(Caller's company name) no (caller's name) ('n optional) desu kedo. 
Itsumo o sewa ni narimasu." Or something like that.

And "moshi-moshi" is not necessarily the first thing you say when you call 
someone (though it's not incorrect) at a place other than the office.
 
>I cannot understate the importance of aizuchi and the other little
>meaningless words you add to your speech to make it more natural
>sounding and to cover for your mistakes.  An `ano....' or `ee-to' can
>open linguistic doors that `tabesaserarenakerebanaranakatta' (OK, I'm
>being facetious here) will not.

Caution on the use of "ano ..."; my friends told me that overuse of it sounds
unnatural. In any event, aizuchi is not really too difficult to pick up; merely
put in a few "ummm", "hmmmm", and other non-committal sounds and it seems to
keep the conversation moving just fine (note: the speaker is usually just 
listening for some sort of sound, not any specific sound at any specific 
point).

Final note on "moshi-moshi"; it is frequently used to get someone's attention.
If someone dropped something at (eg) a train station and you wanted to alert 
them to the fact, a sharp, semi-loud "moshi-moshi" will cause several people
to turn in your direction.

>Even in simpler situations, try more indirect (adult) speech.  When
>looking for something that you suspect is in the vicinity, instead of:
>	nani-nani ha doko desu ka.
>try:
>	Ano...nani-nani wo sagash'te'ru kedo.......

If you're going to use this on a stranger, I'd suggest inserting "'n desu" 
before the "kedo". At least, that's the way most Japanese seem to ask.

Mike
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