From: 881277m@ace.acadiau.ca (WALLACE MCLEAN)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:35:10 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <1992Apr14.143427.9328@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>From: heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman)
>Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:34:27 GMT

>In article <1992Apr14.045205.11678@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.204017.26410@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr13.194740.15976@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Apr13.182639.3398@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>>>>>In article <SBO.92Apr10124351@gunther.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:

>GH1:[...] 
>SB:Make this country Unilingual anglophones so that we won't get Funking
>SB:French on our cereal Box. We will get back the jobs that where stolen from
>SB:us by the Funcking Frogs.

>SB:Let's not give 60 Millions to the province of Quebec. They don't deserve
>SB:it. They must first sign a deal. We won't pay for them. After all, it's not
>SB:their money. It's ours. Furthermore, we only get 800 Millions dispite the
>SB:fact that we are less populous. What an outrage.

>SB:Let's solve this once and for all. Let's send the army. Let's put those
>SB:damn Frogs back where they belong.

>GH1:[...]

>GH1:Stephane ! Il a fallu que je regarde la signature une deuxieme fois
>GH1:pour verifier que c'etait bien toi qui ecrivait ces mots. Je n'en crois 
>GH1:pas mes yeux. Je ne me souviens pas d'avoir vu sur ce net les mots
>GH1:"funcking frog", "frog" et "damn frogs" utilises comme tu l'as fait.
>GH1:J'espere que tu ne crois pas ce que tu dis - en tant que Quebecois
>GH1:francophone je trouves ton choix de vocabulaire hostile et insultant.
>GH1:Pourquoi es-tu le seul sur le net a utiliser un tel vocabulaire ?
>GH1:Pourquoi es-tu le seul ici a avoir adopte une position aussi extreme ?

>GH1:Stephane ! I had to read the attribution twice to make sure it was
>GH1:correct ! I can't believe you're saying this. I think I have never
>GH1:seen anyone on this net use "funcking frog" and "frog" and "damn frogs"
>GH1:like this before. I hope you don't mean this - as a French-speaking
>GH1:Quebecois I find it rather hostile-sounding and insulting.
>GH1:Why are you the only one here using such vocabulary ? Why are you the
>GH1:only one here who has taken such an extreme position ?

>SB:  ,                          ,                           ,
>SB:Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
>SB:sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
>SB:sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950

>GH1:Non, mais .... !

>GH1:Gerald P Heckman
>GH1:Universite de Waterloo,
>GH1:Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.

>SC1:He was being cynical, Gerald. I don't understand why you don't
>SC1:understand that...

>SC1:Don't you see the point here?

>SC1:There is a lot of Quebec bashing in this newsgroup, you should see that.
>SC1:At least, that's the feeling of many French-Quebeckers including myself.

>GH2:Oui, t'as raison ! Y'a beaucoup de gens qui expriment leur desaccord
>GH2:avec certaines politiques et attitudes appuyees par le gouvernement
>GH2:du Quebec et par des personnes publiques nationalistes au Quebec. Mais
>GH2:Stephane se montre hostile et insultant envers tous les Quebecois 
>GH2:francophones ! J'ai rarement vu des choses de la sorte sur can.politics.
>GH2:Il attaque les gens du Quebec et nous lance des noms ! Il nous a appele
>GH2:"damn frogs" !

>GH2:Yes, you're right ! Many people are expressing their disagreements
>GH2:with certain policies and attitudes of the government of Quebec as well as
>GH2:very public nationalist figures ! But Stephane is being hostile and
>GH2:insulting to all French-speaking Quebecois ! I haven't seen much like
>GH2:this on can.politics ! Attacking the people and calling us names !
>GH2:He called us "damn frogs" !

>GH2:Dirais-tu qu'il exagere, qu'il adopte le stereotype d'un extremiste
>GH2:(redneck) pour parodier ce qu'il croit etre l'opinion publique dans 
>GH2:les autres provinces Canadiennes ?

>GH2:Would you say he's exagerating, and adopting the stereotype of an extremist
>GH2:redneck to parody what he believes to be the public opinion in other 
>GH2:Canadian provinces ?

>SC2:That's the whole point of his posting!!!
>Oh !!!
>Ah !!!

>SC2:He was stating what he thinks is the opinion of an "English Canadian"!

>Geez ! I wonder where he got that opinion from. The only person who ever
>calls French-Canadians frogs on this network is Stephane himself !
>He used to complain he had cold blood and would write "ribbid ribbid" in his 
>.sig. Do you think he's been reading too much "Rejean Tremblay" in La Presse ?

>Ciel ! Je me demande d'ou il a pris cette opinion des Canadiens "Anglais".
>La seule personne a avoir appele les Canadiens Francais des frogs sur le
>reseau, c'est Stephane lui-meme ! Il se plaignait jadis d'avoir le sang 
>froid et ecrivait "ribbid ribbid" dans son .sig. 
>Penses-tu qu'il a trop lu de "Rejean Tremblay" dans la Presse ?

>SC2:He is also a Quebecker, "voyons"!!!
>Ah ! 
>Oh !

>SC2:He called HIMSELF as well as all FRENCH Quebeckers frogs.
>Now that's strange ! Why would he call himself names that others,
>even "English Canadians" on this net have not used agains't him ?

>Ca c'est bizarre ! Pourquoi se lancerait-il des noms que personne
>d'autre sur le reseau, meme les "Canadiens Anglais"  n'a utilise 
>contre lui ?

>SC2:He WAS NOT attacking French Quebeckers!

>Ah bon ! Alors "damn frogs n'est pas un insulte...
>All right then. So "damn frogs" isn't an insult...   

>SC2:He was being cynical. "sarcastique" would be a better word.

>Sarcasme ? Connais pas.
>Sarcasm ? I don't know the word.

>SC2:And I don't blame him at all because I feel pretty much the same way.
>SC2:I did not see much improvement of Canada's attitude toward Quebec.

>Ouais, tu dois avoir raison. Si le "Canadien Anglais" moyen se promene
>en nous appelant "damn frogs" et "funcken frogs" comme le fait Stephane, 
>nous avons de grands problemes d'attitude ! T'as remarque ca ici a 
>Waterloo ?

>Gee, you must be right ! If the average "English Canadian" goes around
>like Stephane and calls us "damn frogs" and "funcken frogs", then we are
>in trouble. Did you see much of that around Waterloo ?

>SC2:Most of the time, I am frustrated as much as he was when he wrote his
>SC2:posting.

>Ah ! Les frustrations. Je connais ce mot.
>Yup ! Frustration. I know this word.

>SC2:You should see that, Gerald. You have been part of a minority in Quebec
>SC2:(I am assuming you are an English-Quebecker).

>Hmmm. Je n'ai jamais fait cette hypothese... Si elle t'aide a me "caser",
>moi et mes opinions, tu peux t'en servir ! Bien sur,  l'exactitude de cette
>hypothese laisse quelque peu a desirer, surtout si tu relis les passages
>qui precedent.

>Hmmm. I never made that assumption... If it helps you to pigeon-hole me
>and my opinions, you can certainly assume this. Of course, the accuracy   
>of your assumption leaves much to be desired, especially if you reread
>the previous posting.

>SC2:My impression, as well as many nationalists' on this newsgroup, is that
>SC2:"Quebec subit un tir de barrage de la part du 'TROC'".
>SC2:You should see that, Gerald.

>I see people criticizing the policies of the Quebec government and 
>nationalist elites of Quebec. I do not see them attacking the French-
>Canadian people as Stephane's comments did.

>Je vois des gens qui critiquent les positions du gouvernement du 
>Quebec et des elites nationalistes du Quebec. Je ne les vois pas
>attaquer les Canadiens Francais comme le faisaient les commentaires
>de Stephane.

>Les Quebecois ne devraient-ils pas critiquer leurs gouvernement ou la 
>position de leurs elites ? Ca eviterait peut-etre qu'on le fasse a notre 
>place.

>Shouldn't Quebecois criticize their government or the positions of their
>elites ? Others would perhaps not feel as much the need to do it in our 
>place.

>SC2:Sylvain Chamberland
>SC2:University of Waterloo
>SC2:Waterloo, Ontario.

>Gerald P Heckman
>Universite de Waterloo,
>Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada