HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@launchpad.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Subject: Pramath: Right at hominem
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:47:28 GMT

[I don't know Pramath personally any more than I know some of the other
pMarxists and their brethren or their mortal enemies on SCI. But ...]

From what I have read on SCI (in the year or so when I followed his posts)
he came across as a thoughtful poster who wouldn't stoop to the level of
name-calling some of his right-wing counterparts seem so adept at. In fact,
I have a copy of one of his letters on this very topic, written to Raj Bhatnagar
from which I selectively quote (to obtain the rest I must insist on a
secret password, I am afraid :-):

"Folks, around July last year, there was a big discussion on the
meaning of the word Hindu.  The discussion involved Raj Bhatnagar,
Sanjeev Mahajan, Dheeraj Sanghi, Arvind Pandey. I had just started
reading s.c.i on a regular basis, but these names were just names ..."

"I think it is time the debate itself is clarified. Raj is groping for a word
which captures the essence of common shared historical/cultural experience
which
    (a) He asserts exists
    (b) He feels should be recognized as the corner stone of our nation
        and that our survival as a nation depends on this recognition."

"The Mahajan camp on the other hand feels that we do not need such props to
define ourselves a nation, and that such thinking is necessarily dangerous."

After some pMarxist claptrap about Adi Sankara's commentary on the Gita,
Syrian Christians and the sambhar of Mulakanadu Telugu Brahmins, 
he goes on to grant that "I did not find Raj's arguments silly at all. I have
seen worse forms of argument on this net. He is obviously emotionally
attached to his beliefs, but he did put forth a cogent argument. I have very
grandly asserted ... These may well be worth discussing."

So, while the discussion has continued, people who obviously have more
and more faith in violence (and consequently or otherwise less and
less faith in discussions) continue in their lofty pursuits of taking
the argument to the man rather the topic. Business as usual, I guess.

Sthan.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Subject: Re: Dr. Jayaraman's article
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:38:03 GMT

In article <93022.110049DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu> Deepak Srivastava <DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:


>The conclusion that the Hindutva is the ideology of India is a nation
>based state - rather than a secular democratic state - is a fabricated

I don't see any conflict between India being a nation based state
and also being a secular democratic state. The two characterizations
are perfectly compatible. What is not compatible is the idea of
Islamic ideological state a description of which I had quoted in another
article yesterday.

>one only to hide fascist tendencies such statements harbour.
>
>regards..            Deepak

---raj



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: godura@dwalin.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: US - Pakistan relationship
Keywords: Hang loose on the Caboose !
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:35:03 GMT

In article <1jaduuINNp12@shelley.u.washington.edu> shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes:
<..... deleted .......>
>
>The Babri Mosque's desctruction once and for all practicle purposes uncovered
>the lie, that every muslim in India and Pakistan knew, but the rest of the
>world did not. This is no secular state.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Best Regards,
>Shams Hasan.

If India were not a secular state, there wouldn't be any muslims in
India today.. just the way there are hardly any hindus in Pakistan or
the way in which out of the thousands of Kashmiri pandits,
only a couple of thousand are left in Kashmir.
Ruchir.
>
>
>
>

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 731-4123 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: seeta@eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma)
Subject: Re: Who is Prof. Jayaraman (Was An article
Reply-To: seeta@eng.wayne.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Wayne State University, Detroit Michigan, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:00:19 GMT

 (Raghavan Jayaraman) writes:
-+>(Ajay Shah writes>
-+>>Well, now that s.c.i. readers know the background of
-+>>Prof. Jayraman, they will be able to appreciate his article
-+>>a little better.

-+>I don't think  the background of Mr. Jayaraman [whether it is good or
-+>bad] has a bearing on the tenor of the well written meaningful article.
-+>Infact out of all "marxist" articles  I have seen in this net, this is one
-+>I appreciate very much since it touches upon what is needed in India


Yes, that man made point after point.  But his style was quite distateful for me.

Also, his complete dissection of the book on vedic mathematics was not to
my taste, as it was not warranted to the lengths he went.

Ofcourse it is true, that the book as such will not make it beyond high school
level, but could easily become a good puzzle book for most of us...

But one link of his I buy.  His careful placement of indian context between
the ancient pre-renaissance europe and today's pakistan was a masterstroke...

He got me there...  Anyway, we all unanimously (save worma) have condemned the
wholesale replacement of math school books by vedic maths...

BTW, the inclusion of astrology as a science was new to me...  Pathetic...

India..............

Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)

BTW, I guess, his article could have been written by any `concerned'
person who strongly believes in the scientific method.   So the actual
contents should not mask what was to be communicatd.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@launchpad.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Subject: Re: Sthan's pique
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:41:10 GMT

In article <1k6qv2INNont@hsc.usc.edu> banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee) writes:
>Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@launchpad.unc.edu croaks yet again :
>
>>Remember my inability to "seperate[sic] fact from fiction" ...
>>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Good job - with the spelling, I mean.
>>
>>Sub-tera-fuge too baby!
>	       ^^^^^^^^^
>
>This is pathetic...watching a feeble mind disintegrate. Not only have 
>you lost your usual acerbic style, you have descended to the level of
>plagiarizing Asim Mughals donkey's style. That truly is sick.
>
>Now if imitation were the sincerest form of flattery, Mustafa may have 
>been tickled pink, although I doubt if he would have rushed to embrace you.
>There are things, even a Mustafa wont do. 
>
>If things persist at this level, I may have to go back and renominate
>Nimmala as my principal betenoire on SCI. He atleast made it worth my time.
>
>
>Samit
>
>std. disclaimer  I hope this does not violate Mr.Asthana's code of ethics.
>		 Please check with me before complaining to my sys.admin.
>-- 
>Samit Banerjee,			    |  
>University of Southern California   |  A man who smiles when things go wrong,
>Internet: banerjee@scf.usc.edu      |  has found somebody to blame it on.
>Bellnet : (213) 342-1401            |  

Hello ...

Sthan.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: byab314@chpc.utexas.edu (Srinivas Bettadpur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Super computers from India...way to GO guys
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:43:38 GMT
Organization: Center for Space Research, University of Texas at Austin

In article <9301262231.AA06807@ho10.eng.ua.edu> bkannan@ho10.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:
>
>gt0138d@prism.gatech.EDU (Sumiti) writes:
>
>>Am I missing something here? Isn't the President the Commander-in-chief
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>>of the Armed forces? We already had two Muslim C-in-Cs. 
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Well, that will larn' me to read more carefully.  If you look
for Army/Air Force/Navy chiefs, the Amar-Akbar-Anthony were (as was
pointed out) A.S. Vaidya, I.H. Latif and A.S. Dawson (if I am not
mistaken)
>
  If you look for supreme commanders (or whatever).....
>
>        Fakruddin Ali Ahmed was a 'Muslim President' [died while in office].
>        Who was the other? I seem to have forgotten.
>
     Zakir Husain
                          Enjoy
                                                    Srinivas
-- 
Srinivas Bettadpur        Internet : byab314@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu
P.O. Box 8520, Austin, Tx. 78713-8520, U.S.A.  Tel. (512) 471 4332
BITNET : byab314@uthermes
Organization: Hunt Institute for Botanical Documentatn, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:02:49 -0500 
From: "James J. White" <jw3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Govt School of Art, Calcutta?

I'm doing some research on a number of late 19th-century botanical
lithographs which often include "Govt School of Art, Calcutta" after the
artist's or printer's name.  Does anyone know if this school exists and
its address?  Thanks!  Jim
Organization: Heinz School, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:11:52 -0500 
From: Ashish Arora <ashish+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Help to riot victims ?

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.indian: 20-Jan-93 Re: Help to riot
victims ? by Jayant Mahajan@lynx.dac. 
> If Prof. S. Chandrashekhar, Mr. A. Sen, Miss. Parameshwaran can find
> time to write when a unused structure called the Babri structure is
> dismantled. I cannot believe that they cannot find time to write even a
> small note to show sympathy for Kashmiri Hindus. Why are they all so
> quite and ashamed to tell of the HIndu suffering. Are they afraid of

This is getting to be a bit much.  So now Mr. Jayant Mahajan would
require a  person, before expressing sympathy with a set of unfortunate/
oppressed people, to draw up  a list of all such sets and express
sympathy with them.  In other words, it is an all or nothing
proposition, which is quite absurd.  And, by the same token, has Mr.
Mahajan expressed sympathy for the riot victims ?  

cheers
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:01:45 EST
From: <TAZ@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Female Infanticide: Capsule on 60 min This sunday

There will be a capsule on Female infanticide in India on this coming Sunday
(1/23) on 60 minutes program of CBS. Maybe interesting to watch what it has
to say though we kind of know what it will be.
Sanjay
From: priya@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (priyadarshini arda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: job
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:37:24 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

testing.........
From: dheeraj@eng.umd.edu (Dheraj Sanghi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: .... 60.min/dowry....
Date: 27 Jan 1993 05:48:48 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: coke.eng.umd.edu

In an article uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2) writes:

>the dowry deaths are the decease of "rich" people of

According to an earlier theory on the net, dowry deaths occur in
middle class since dowry is the only way for a man to survive the
tough competition. Now, lets hear the arguments for this theory also.
Will you please elaborate as to why do you think so and what are
your sources of information.


>certain communities in Delhi (mostly)...apparently

While Delhi has one of the highest per-capita dowry deaths,
dowry is not restricted to some community in Delhi alone.
UP has the highest number of dowry deaths, and there are considerable
deaths in practically the whole Hindi belt, and even some places in
South. Somebody posted the following numbers last year:

The top 4 states are:
	UP		1496
	Maharashtra	828
	MP		390
	AP		340

	TOTAL		4601 (REPORTED Dowry deaths)

I believe Delhi has close to 300 deaths in a year.


>they can get away with this crime. Better than ad,
>we women's shelters since the girl's family is not
>ready to shelter their blood and flesh. I would say
>the society is sick in general to accept such terrible
>fate of women. 

It is very easy to blame society. But aren't we all part of the
society. Shouldn't we all share some blame for the ills of the
society, especially if we have not done anything to stop those
ills.


-dheeraj
-- 
Dheeraj Sanghi			(h):301-474-3592	(o):301-405-2723
Internet: dheeraj@cs.umd.edu	UUCP: uunet!mimsy!dheeraj
I asked a Burmese why women, after centuries of following their men, now walk
ahead. He said there were many unexploded land mines since the war. - Mueller
From: tsreddy@skitime.Eng.Sun.COM (T.S.Reddy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: BJP
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:03:55 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: skitime

In article <1jmt06INNt3o@chnews.intel.com> rkrithiv@hopi.intel.com (Ramamurthy Krithivas) writes:
>From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
>
>> I've always wondered why BJP supporters always put ties with Israel
>> at the top of their list, sometimes even higher than ties with the US.
>
> One of the factor that kept India away from Israel  was the  Muslim 
> lobby.  Perhaps it would be  a good  idea to ask  the  Muslim lobby 
> why they were so much against Israel. One reason for BJP to raise a
> point of order. 
>
> Irrespective of whether you are a BJP'ite or Cong-I'te : 
>
> India's  closeness with  Arafat, because of our Pro-Soviet leanings, 
> meant that we have to support all those who were fighting  American  
> influence. Isralies   existence  has been mostly  because  of their  
> tenacity, but also  because of American help. Hence that can be one 
> more reason. Nothing more has harmed India than her close relation-
> ship with communist countries. 
>
> Also India is/was fighting  terrorism in the name of Islam, that is
> being fuelled by the Islam fanatic state of Pakistan. So perhaps it
> would be good to allign  yourself with a country that is fighting a
> similar battle, against terrorism in the name of Islam. It would be
> futile to  allign with Islamic  countries, as they  will not cast a 
> vote in your favour, if it is a matter concerning Islam, even if it
> were used by its followers to whip up terrorism. 
>
> Pragmatism should define your objectives. Even if that means that a
> section of the population in India, particulary the muslims,if they 
> were to feel insulted because of India's allignment with Israel. In 
> all the  time that India antagonized  Israel, did the Indian muslim 
> lobbies ask their brothers of Iran/Pak/Afganistan to stop them from 
> funnelling arms and money into Kashmir ? 
> [On the contrary Israels assistance has helped break the backbone of
> terrorism. That implies peace for ALL !!]. 
>
    Actually, the PLO has always stood behind India in Islamic meetings 
where Pakistan kept raising the Kashmir issue. Their stand has always
been that the problems should be resolved bilaterally between the 
two countries involved (and rightfully so). Pakistan has been reneging 
on this point since the Simla agreement specifically states it and 
Pakistan is a signatory to it.

    Regarding Israel, I agree that India went overboard in showing it's
antagonism towards the former. Especially the likes of Krishna Menon 
whose dislike for Israel was well known. India could have taken a
principled stand (that Israel should quit the occupied territories)
without taking the animosity to a personal level.

     Also, the writings that had a profound impact on Palestinian
spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi were the works of Nehru and his thoughts
during the freedom struggle. Just ponder that for a few moments.
From: uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2)
Subject: Re: .... 60.min/dowry....
Organization: bnr.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:59:05 GMT

> ...girl remains spinster...

And guys get married to cows, right!!! Come on wake up man.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2)
Subject: RE: Why Muslin persecution is rempant these days? 
Organization: bnr.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:14:18 GMT

The Islam was usually embraced to be "downtrodden" of the
society because it was the only way for them to break the
tyranny of the majority...finally they want to feel equal 
to everyone else...but of course this only invites further
persecution (in the name of religion, this time). The 
situation is further worsened by the Theorcarts (on both
sides). This is SOLEY my personal opinion anyway.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Subject: Re: fabricated posts ("sneaky posts" a la
Reply-To: venu@cirrus.com
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:50:15 GMT

In article 14924@ncsu.edu, ascidamb@unity.ncsu.edu (Aruna Cidambi) writes:

>sigh! and that too deficient kids like these -- one is toothless, the
>other is truth-less and the third is both. for those who r fortunate
>enough not to know these lemme explain -- ssd: toothless, u-know-who: truthless
>and venu: both.

huh? are you toothless, ssd?  :-). what kinda dentures do you wear? let us take this over to alt.dentures.wannabes, and discuss the various merits of this to the death. [aruna...couldn't you really come up with something better than *toothless*? i mean, come'on, you can do better than that. all you have to do is think. oh, i forget. do forgive me.]

>ok kids, game's over. run along now, and not a whimper from the three of
>u. we don't want the big aunties to hit us where it hurts most, now do we?

i do, i do. let's take this thread over to alt.sex.bondage, and alt.sex.masochism if you want to discuss the various aspects of this. *blush*

>p.s: arathi, watch now. they r gonna come howling back, in the true sci
>tradition of boys-will-be-boys-if-not-worse, with the support of friends
>and enemies alike.

howl. i hope that pleases you.

---
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737 
The problem with the gene-pool is that there is no life-guard.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:45340 soc.culture.pakistan:19849 soc.culture.bangladesh:7691
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Persecution of Muslims and Hindus in Pakistan
Date: 24 Jan 93 21:00:38 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

 The following is a portrayal of how Pakistan systematically demolishes the
 minority livestock and culture - an allegation that Pakistan has been fending  
 so adroitly for a long time. As I am reading the book " Against our Will " -
 by Susan Brownmiller, the rapes on both Muslim and Hindu women in Bangladesh,
 the barbaric torture unleashed upon the opposite (f)sex by the Paki soilders
 in the name of "lust/ bravery" shows what Islamic practices are adhered to by
 these disciplined gentlemen. I just imagine what our Janab Sareer A.Fazili 
 will say when he recognizes his lies about Kashmir - where the GOP has been
 systematically demolishing both Hindu (kafirs) and Muslim livelihood. The story
 of Roshengarh is simply a surrealistic, idyllic dream.

 - deb [a deeply disturbed] chatterjee
        (a good samaritan)

******************** Message below from Narotham Reddy **********************
X-News: (.......) misc.news.southasia:1194
From: gnreddy@dpg1.attmail.com (G.Narotham Reddy)
Subject:Pakistan Persecutes Minorities - U.S Charges
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 00:26:39 GMT
Message-ID:<1993Jan25.002639.3104@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>

Source   : Press Trust of India
Date     : Jan  22, 1993
Country  : Pakistan

                                 * * * * *

Washington: The U.S state department has charged Pakistan with persecuting 
minorities - Hindus, Christians and Ahmadi Muslims who have been
declared non-Muslims by the fiat of the Pakistan government.
	The department's annual human rights report also reports continued
human rights violations in Pakistan especially the violation of rights
of non-Punjabis.
	The department also says that Pakistan is ruled not by the elected
Prime Minister but by a troika of the Prime Minister, President and the
Army Chief of staff. The Chief of Staff, it says, "wields considerable
influence on many major policy decisions."
	The report says "Hindus complain of continued kidnapping and forced
conversions of young women, desecration of Hindu shrines and temples,
disruption of prayer services, and the burning of Hindu texts as well
as the torture of detained Hindus."
	"Christians have had difficulty obtaining permission from local and
federal officials to build new churches and continue to work through the
courts to regain possession of educational institutions nationalised
during the 1970's.

                               ( E N D )
From: narasi@cs.tamu.edu (S.L.Narasimhan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: F-1 visa -> Help !!!!!!!!
Date: 24 Jan 1993 06:44:09 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

Hi 
This is for my friend. He doesn't have an access to this newsgroup. 
So u can reply to my address. 

My friend is working on his second masters. His visa expired last 
December (1992). He has an I-20 till aug'93. He plans to defend sometime
this semester. Is it possible for him to goto India in May? Will he
face any problems for visa renewal? He got it renewed for a year last Jan
(1992). Will it be better if he gets it visa renewed @Laredo? is it 
possible? any info will be appreciated
thanks in advance




--
Narasimhan
e-mail: sln1887@venus.tamu.edu
		or
        narasi@neuron.cs.tamu.edu
From: rajesh@Tandem.com (Rajesh Srivastava)
Subject: Re: Explosives seized from ISS activists
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:29:57 GMT

Now that the intentions of ISS have been exposed , people from Southern parts of
India may probably understand the reason for Hindu  movement in the Northern 
and Central  Indian states.

In these states such situations ( may not be in the form of ISS ) have existed since 
independence. This is perhaps the major reason why VHP, RSS could motivate 
people for such a mass movement in this region. 

I do not intend to dispute the consequences of such acts but I do mean to emphasize
that the peoblem is not limited to just a few so called backward states, it is a country 
wide problem. Sooner we realize that the better it will be for all of us.

Rajesh Srivastava
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: fabricated posts ("sneaky posts" a la Vijay Fafat)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:05:42 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Paul Joseph writes:
>In article <2491@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> rangana@cs.uwindsor.ca (RANGANATHAN A            ) writes:

>>tsk, tsk. You desi mules have this unfortunate habit of ASSuming.
>        
>>But, then that's to be expected. After*all*, we have no desire to tax your 
>>*lacko mental prowess*, now do we, SAWs ? 
>>Arathi.

>
>   I keep wondering - didnt your dad/grandad come from India sometime
>   and settle here as a desi.  Desi mule i.e. Surprising though - I thought
>   mules are sterile. Hmmm. Well ... who knows .. ;) 


	Paul, you need to sit back, relax and shrug-off this "I *have* to
	defend my Desh/desi" syndrome, not because it's bad [hey, I'm a proud
	Desi too :)] but because you tend to take this too seriously. Most
	peepuls on the net know this is gentle bantering with the posts not
	necessarily representing the poster's views.

	btw, mules, I hear, have become Hi-tech nowadays :)

	vijay











Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian