HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ac999273@umbc.edu (ac999273)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:23:45 -0500
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc5.umbc.edu

In article <C1H3A7.8qM@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>
>This is getting long.  My only specific comment is this:  I can't
>imagine a case in which the way you come out makes any long-term
>difference to your friends.  (This might not hold so well for
>parents; I'm not sure.)  Whether you go through "something I've


	This is an interesting point.  I am by no means out to my parents.
Only a few of my closests friends know about me.  My Mom has clues...  The
amount of time I spend with my boyfriends... My attitudes about gay 
issues... ordination at church, gays in the military, CO 2 Ammendmant
etc. that do not match theirs... oh don't get me wrong, my Mom is far from
homophobic, she just has some of the stigma, but anyway, with so many clues,
would I not be better off just telling them?  But I am not ready... don't 
have the guts...
	I guess you all have heard it all before.
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: FBI Security Investigations... (was "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers")
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:04:10 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1993Jan23.143722.5608@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>At the bottom line, the investigator's opinion,
>as long as it's not based on plain old bigotry, is all we
>have to go on.

But that is the problem when it is based on one (typically) man's
opinion.  In most cases, a new-hire who is denied a security clearance
will be terminated rather than the company actively appealing the
decision.  

I just don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling that the Bureau gives a damn
about making sure their investigators are not biased.  It sometimes is
a crap shoot.

On a personal subject... I have never been in a position where I
needed a security clearance, and I don't think that I would be happy
working in a position where I really had to have one.  It's not that I
am a security risk, it's that I am somewhat of a radical.  I respect
some aspects of security, but have trouble knowing about issues when I
see them as morally wrong and unethical.  I have no desire to put
myself in the stressful situation of knowing something that needs to
be told, but I can't tell it.  In a situation like that, I loose all
respect for those with whom I share the secret.  So... that in a
nutshell is why I don't want a security clearance, and that is why
those who would be investigating me should deny it.  I'd much rather
be asked to leave the room than to not be able to sleep at nights.

-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Good lord!
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:35:35 GMT

In article <thaaang.727922650@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

> Accidentally sent my latest batch of unanswered mail to the
> '=received' folder (I usually leave all unanswered mail at the main
> screen until I slip up in this manner). It's been a while since I
> last checked in there, so I thought I'd swallow my fear and see
> exactly how frightening things were. When I did, I found *two*
> *hundred* and *fifteen* messages stashed away! I think I've found
> my next major project... (Why am I lying to myself? That's *been*
> my major project for months, and I'm just failing miserably. My
> apologies to everyone expecting mail. No offense, but please don't
> mail me asking what's taking so long...)
>
not sure whether to grin or blush or both, but this is exactly why no
one ever gets mail from me...  i save it so that i can ABSOLUTELY get to
it when i am ready to answer mail, and then i end up with a full disk,
and have to print it out, and then it goes in the stack of mail i
ABSOLUTELY MUST answer, and...

guess how many boxes of printouts i moved from brewer to natick?  guess
how many i LEFT in brewer?  *deep blush*

of course, that wasn't all mail.  at least half of it was the collected
works of jess anderson *grin*

                                                -ailsa
Xref: sparky soc.motss:57723 soc.bi:18763
From: alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: 21 Jan 1993 07:33:01 GMT
Organization: Stanford University Amateur Radio Club, California USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: w6yx.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan21.040523.14392@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.124508.15752@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
>SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk writes:
>
>>Why do people think it odd to drink cold coffee?  Not as of habit, but
>>as a cool, refreshing drink on a summer day.  After all, iced-tea isn't
>>exactly unknown....
>
>I'll be glad to give you a definitive answer to that.  Iced
>tea is a cool, refreshing drink on a summer day.  Cold
>coffee is an abomination in any season, day or night.  See,
>wasn't that simple?
>
Wrong.  Uh-uh.  I beg to differ.

Cold, STALE coffee is an abomination before God, Godess, Man and Woman.
   
   ICED coffee, on the other hand, is a very pleasant beverage.  Try a 
   Frappe sometime.  Yummmm!

   BTW, not surprised to see that those UK'ers find it odd to drink cold
   coffee--they find it odd to drink ANY coffee.  I wouldn't call the
   muddy instant stuff they serve over there coffee.  Nearly KILLED me,
   ya tea swillin' Brits! ;-P


So now, you should spend the morning lying to your father quite amazed
About the strange Unwashed and Happily Slightly Dazed!  ---Bowie
===============================================================================

-- 
Alpha Schram	alpha@w6yx.stanford.edu*"My legs are getting so they don't
1974 CB360 (Sexy Sadie)		       * percolate so well anymore!"
"It's not a big motorcycle,	       *       --my grandmother, 13.Jan.93
just a groovy little motorbike..."     *---------ROMANI ITE DOMUM---------
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn
Date: 22 Jan 93 07:23:45 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

A dark, slender hand with hairy knuckles landed on his shoulder.
"Qu'est-ce que tu lis?" asked Jose.

Startled, le Jojo looked up from his minitel, guiltily trying to hide
the screen.  "Je ne lis pas, j'ecris un conte de fees," said Jojo.

On the screen was written:

  "What's this," said Steve, the system administrator, just as he
  encircled the Tip of Tim's cock with his thumb and forefinger, hands
  rough and thick from all that woodchopping and VAX system management.
  Tim wriggled, the stain now looking li8kke he had spilled an entire
  bottle of Evian in his lap, and his arching cock tenting his pants
  obscenely while the System's Programmer playfully slapped at it,
  reading:

    "Then my friend leaned forward, mesmerised by Hick's cock, and closing
    his eyes, touched his lips to the tip. His tongue lashed out, and
    startled at first by the salty, tangy flavor, he grew bold, and
    drooling, pressed his head forward. The fat cockhead lay heavy on his
    tongue, hot, alive, and slowly sliding on in, he felt it finally push
    against the back of his throat, like a velvet rock."

"Plutot un conte de fesses," said Jose, his dark eyes sparkling.
Jose was of pure Mediteranean type, without the curious admixture
of the Celtic typical of French men.  Since Jose had little English,
and le Jojo's command of Portuguese was limited to the few impolite
words he had acquired from Jose, their medium of communication
was French.  "Who's Tim?" continued Jose with a trace of jealousy.

"No one, really," replied le Jojo. "A figure of my imagination, a 
temporary pattern of motion of cathode rays in the vacuum of my
screen, he doesn't really exist.  Reality, the hard facts, are here."
His thick pale hand fell into his lap to demonstrate.

"There is no reality beyond that of the senses," said Jose.  Gently
he moved le Jojo's hand aside, and took hold of the monstrous erection
engendered on Jojo by the imaginary Tim.  "I must experience it directly
for myself."  He turned Jojo's stool, and pressed his mouth to Jojo's.
Jojo felt the rough stubble of Jose's dark shadowed jaw on his lips and 
the gentle exploratory caresses of Jose's hand in his lap,
and the bristles of his own blond moustache tangled with the jet
black of Jose's.  Burly white arms circled a slim waist,
and olive arms circled burly shoulders.

"Let's go upstairs," murmered le Jojo thickly, his mouth full.

"No," said Jose, pulling away, "that's too far away.  The kitchen 
table is so much nearer."

	*	*	*	*	*

Later, le Jojo said, "We are such stuff as dreams are made on."

"Pardon?" said Jose, for le Jojo had spoken in English.

"N'importe," responded le Jojo.  "It doesn't matter."
--
Mike Pettersen, Ecole Normale Superieure
msp@physique.ens.fr
Perfect love casteth out fear.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sexual harassment from queers
Followup-To: soc.motss
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:29:36 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak4.doc.ic.ac.uk


In article <1993Jan25.115423.20933@schbbs.mot.com>, 
    TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler) writes:
|> 
|> one thing I *have* noticed is that there seems to be a lot of
|> contempt for other sexual-minority (or sub-minority) groups
|> i.e. people who have other sexual interests as well as their
|> sexual 'base' (gay/lesbian/het/bi) from gay people.

I feel obliged to join in here.  Frequently I have been embarrassed,
nay, annoyed, by the attitude of some gay friends to straight people.
In particular, I know of people who complain that they cannot kiss the
partner of their choice in "normal" public bar, and then they go on to
criticise the straight couple with the audacity to snog in a gay place
(or even a bi couple who just happen to be male/female).  To me this is
unquestionably hypocritical.
I also get mightily pissed off by some gay mens' atitude to women
generally, and lesbians specifically.  Maybe this is just a British or
even Scottish thing, but it could well be the case elsewhere.  There is
some really bad attitude in fellow queers.  I sometimes find myself
wondering who is more intolerant: the sort of people with this anti-het
attitude, or some of the milder of the various 'phobes that are around
(like my mum - "I don't like the idea of it at all, but I just have to
put up with it.  Just don't talk about it.")
-- 
        |   Kenny Campbell         ______     If at first you don't    |
        |   Imperial College       \    /     succeed, failure might   |
        |   London                  \  /      be your style.           |
        |   kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk         \/                 Quentin Crisp  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Finally!!!
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:25:26 GMT

In article <C18K49.97I@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org
(Roger B.A.  Klorese) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.021151.8971@bradley.bradley.edu> larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton) writes:
>>   Although I've been accused of it, I DID NOT vote for Lincoln.
>>       (But Jess A. did!)  =)

>Actually, you're wrong.  He voted in that election, but for Douglas; in fact,
>he was the inspiration for the jessobyte...

well, one of the famous debates was close to my home town,
but contrary to popular myth, I was not in attendance.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:56:13 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <mattm-250193092258@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> In article <1jr4iqINNdhv@mizar.usc.edu>, 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
> > Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
> > at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
> > actress".
>
> This may be terribly subjective - and a reflection of political
> prowess - but tell me, Dolphie... Which actress has the greatest
> number of Academy Awards?

What, may I ask, do Academy Awards have to do with great
acting?  For that matter, what do Academy Awards have to
do with any kind of acting?

I think Katharine Hepburn is a great movie star.  That I
don't particularly care for her is a failing, I suppose.
(That I can't stand Humphrey Bogart is a sign of my
good taste.)  There's something about Hepburn that sets
my teeth on edge.  The only performance of hers I ever
really enjoyed was in "Alice Adams", although I would
only ever go back to watch that film again in order
to see the absolutely wonderful Hattie McDaniel in what
has to be one of the funniest performances ever captured
on film.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Initiatives Planned in Other States
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:24:29 EST
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_NEWSWEEK_ magazine has reported that anti-gay ballot initiatives are being
organised in 11 states, namely: 

MICHIGAN
IDAHO
OHIO
WASHINGTON
MONTANA 
MINNESOTA
CALIFORNIA
MAINE
GEORGIA.

   
---
RON BUCKMIRE
Fundraising Committee for the Procurement of a mesh tank-top for LL Cool J
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: finding each other at MOW... an idea
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:17:37 GMT

> milr@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Well I've just started thinking of getting my boyfriend to go
>with me, but don't know if he has much vacation time.  I've 
>been hearing that "get your rooms now" and of how crowded it's
>going to be, so am wondering if I should bother going.
>But, I've never been to something like this, and I was out
>before my boyfriend was.

Stop dithering about it and *GO*.  Believe me, you'll
never forgive yourself if you don't.  If you're
worried about finding a room, call DC Accommodations
at 1-800-554-2220.  There was a Dallas-based travel
agent serving the Central US, but I believe it's gone
out of business, so call the MOW National Office for
travel help -- it's 202/628-0493.

Just do it.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
  <thaaang.727628910@cwis> <C18L55.DqB@agora.rain.com> <thaaang.727712781@cwis> <C1ACp3.9oF@agora.rain.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 12:03:18 GMT

Ahh, I feel a bond developing between us. See ya!

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-oriented music?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:32:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan25.223214.4615
Organization: Castle Anthrax

In article <1993Jan23.085540.12922@fuug.fi> an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:
>
>If anyone who knows of other MOTSS-oriented songs and could e-mail me,
>I'd like to start compiling a list.  I can post the list here later, if
>anyone is interested...

A lot of Bowie (esp. '70s Bowie). In particular, "The Jean Genie"
(which I believe is a song about a hustler, but I could be wrong), and
much/most of the "Ziggy Stardust" album.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"Wait a minute! You guys are NINJAS!"
                ---The Tick
From: onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: No Liberty Without Ethics
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:01:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan26.230113.811
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1993Jan22.075753.29278@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <18436@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen
>Rowley) writes:

>jess>>
>>>We will have many arguments within the cohort as we try to
>>>work out what "good citizen" means in our own terms.  

>>*Good Citizen* is your term, I used *first class valuable
>>asset* in order to bypass the relative value judgements of
>>*bad and good*.

>jess>>
>That's sophistry in its simplest form.  The value judgments
>cannot be bypassed.

I understand that there are value judgements involved, I specifically
wanted to avoid the good-bad polarity.
My reasoning was not meant to mislead, but prhaps it was too subtle.

>The argument by example -- some LGB people have done some
>very good things -- is not adequate to secure liberty and
>equality for us all.  The society as a collective enterprise
>-- taking nothing away from its diversities during or after
>the debate -- will have to undertake the enormously
>difficult, fractious activity of *not* bypassing the
>formation of ethical values.  You have several times
>mentioned taking principled positions; *this* principle
>underlies all others in our domain of discourse.

I guess so, you've sorta buried me in semantics here, and I'll be upfront 
that I don't really grasp yer drift here.

At this point I think that institutionalised homophobia, and rampant
ignorance of who and what we really are, make rapid acceptance 
improbable. 

Coming out on an individual basis is often a staged process, and
i suspect that our collective coming out must be too.
A good first step is to demonstrate value, and to re-iterate that
ultimately no matter what they think of our ways, our lives are just
as precious to us as theirs are to them.

LUX ./. owen

-- 
D. Owen Rowley onr@netcom.com ( also owen@autodesk.com )
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Any word on military ban yet?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:24:43 GMT

The subject says it all.

BTW-
 What groups are in the most need/ make the best use of donations?
 To bad only fundies get to right off political donations :-(
-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568        
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Red-haired Declans
Supersedes: <braid@kaa.gr.osf.org>
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:01:46 GMT

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>Eamonn McManus writes:
>>tall yummy red-haired young thing 
>Oxymoron fault.

I think you mean "pleonasm", Richard.  Otherwise, fuck off.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hwt@bcarh11c.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rings (was Re: Wedding bands)
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:09:01 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada


|>>>This reminds me of the (local?) trend of gays wearing a ring on
their 'pinky'
|>>>finger. Is/was this pretty much universal?
|>
|>	I don't know how universal, but here in the States
|>	it is still quite often done (I almost always wear
|>	one myself, as some of you know)

BTW, in Canada an iron ring on the pinkie of the right hand may mean
that the wearer, such as I, is a graduate of a Canadian engineering
school.  Which, unfortunately, have a reputation (the schools, not
especially the graduates) for homophobia.

Which doesn't mean that some iron rings are not on gay fingers, of course.

I wear two rings, both symbolize obligations, one personal, one
professional.  One on the left hand, one on the right.
                                         
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	   "Pale was the wounded knight, that bore the rowan shield."
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-oriented music?
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:43:51 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <74222@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>anon asks:
>>I've seen posted on here lists of both MOTSS-oriented movies and gay
>>TV characters.  I haven't seen anything yet related to MOTSS-oriented
>>music.
>>
>>The only two songs I know about are "Hideaway" and "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme"
>>both by Erasure.

Well, I don't know how explicit a song must be to qualify as MOTSS-oriented,
but by a simple knowledge of the artists one can include almost all of
Erasure's catalog, at the very least "Boys Say Go" and "What's Your Name?"
from Depeche Mode's _Speak_And_Spell_, lots of Pet Shop Boys stuff, some
Sophie B. Hawkins, etc. etc.

Drewcifer
-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: smith_bob_e@tandem.com (Mod Bob)
Subject: Re: GLAAD: Sowell Off Target
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Tandem
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:00:38 GMT

In article <mattm-210193170137@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) wrote:
> 
> All that notwithstanding, Hoover Tower would make for a great
> place to boink.
> 
> *X*

I keep waiting for Christo to pitch a new artwork: a huge condom rolled
onto the exceptionally erect (biggest one on campus!) Hoover Tower 
(locally known as "Hoover's Last Erection").

Oh...you don't suppose the Tower is what Splat had designs on, do you?

                                   Bob, impressed by such ambition
Newsgroups: soc.motss