HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Yet more anti-libertarian argRe: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:21:05 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <29631@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
[an fairly accurate description of MIRAS]
 
> * Government says to everyone: "pay me money or you go to jail."
> 
> * Government says "but if you own a house, you can pay me less."
> So, with government intervention in the free market, homeowners get
> richer at the expense of the poor and the whole economy gradually gets
> poorer thus increasing the numbers of the poor.
> 
No, with this particular appalling example of state interventin the rich get
richer and the poor get poorer.

> We've argued transport and health into the ground. Let's see some
> statists defend this one.

Certainly not. It's indefensible. I *will* however argue passionately that the
state should provide free or cheap housing for people who could otherwise not
afford it.

> Interesting that we agree on abolishing taxes whenever *your* favourite
> group is concerned but not when it is advocated for everyone. This
> doesn't sound like democratic fairness to me. Care to explain it?
> 
I will. Taxation is broadly speaking a means of transferring money from those
who have too much of it to those who do not have enough. That means that any
tax which hits the poor more than it hits the rich (in relative terms) is a bad
tax. Income tax is a good tax; poll tax is a bad tax. Inheritance tax is a good
tax; VAT is a bad tax. It is no surprise to some of us that bad taxes have been
increased and good taxes reduced.
> 
> But in your arguments you support a tax system that *jails* people if
> they don't have the money to pay the government's "fare". I'd really
> like you to either renounce forcible taxation or address this
> inconsistency. You can't get much less freedom to travel than being in jail.
> 
No. I think we are all advocating that the government's "fare" should be set at
a different level according to the wealth of the person paying it. It is only
this latest incartion of the Tory party which has imprisoned people for
inability to pay an unfair tax.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:43:56 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <CC.92Dec16151031@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
> In article <20771@acorn.co.uk> steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:
> 
>    You appear to be feel that even if the accident is the fault to the
>    cyclist, the car driver should somehow be blamed for having a bigger
>    vehicle.  I think this is an extremely arrogant, holier-than-thou
>    attitude.
> 
> A car driver can dispense death and agony to other road users whenever he/she
> wishes to, unlike a cyclist.  The driver therefore has a far weightier
> responsibility, and is *always* partly to blame when their car hits
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> something.  Even a damnfool suicidal cyclist.  Car drivers, like all road
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> users, should *anticipate* and *expect* other people's stupidity and mistakes.

OOOps, unwise words I'm afraid. You have overlooked the fact that the car
may be stationary (for a perfect valid reason) and a cyclist then cycles into 
them. I did this on several occasions about 10 to 12 years ago. I was totally
at fault. Doubtless it has happened on many occasions to other people
throughout the known universe.

I know you said "the car hits", Steve I think was dealing with "the cyclist
hitting the car".
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
 means to side with the powerful, not to be Neutral."
                                                     Quote by Freire.
                                                     Poster by OXFAM.
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:26:09 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <Ps4TVB21w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> That's nothing -- I have to pay for all the roads I *don't* use.  I never use
> motorways, for example.

Funny that, so do I. So does everyone else who pays car tax, and buys petrol.

Also funny that many of the records/tapes/CDs I own have tracks on them that
I don't listen to. Strange that I've never applied for a refund for those
tracks I don't listen to. Many of the libraries of software I've bought over
the years have functions in them that I have never used. I've never applied for
a refunf on those software functions. I also don't know of anyone how has,
or expects to receive such a refund.

I think I'll apply for a refund for the A12, A11, Awhat was it now, the one I
passed on Saturday.....
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

muso/unix joke: "which debugger do you use?"
                "I use dbx..."
                "Oh really, we use Dolby C..."
Motorola inside.
From: rickt@bnr.co.uk (Rick Tait)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: CBM PET? I'LL BUY OLD MACHINES!!
Date: 17 Dec 1992 11:36:22 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Transmission System Engineering
Distribution: world
Reply-To: R.Tait@bnr.co.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: bnsgs203.bnr.co.uk

This post is a real shot in the dark, so here goes.
I'm looking for a Commodore Pet. *recovers from laughter* Remember those?
There could be one all lonely and dusty in the corner of your office,
looking forlorn and lost - and I'm here to rescue it! Yes folks, I'm
prepared to pay money, good money for a Commodore Pet, as well as any other
interesting computers (old) you have ready to throw out, so if you've
got an old computer that you don't need or use anymore, please get in
touch with me and we can talk business!

I look forward to hearing from you!

(I'm also interested in small Unix workstations (3/80s, Apollos etc. Anything
you got - I want it!)

-- 
Cheers,                                                            __o
Rick                                                               \<,
_________________________________________________________________()/ ()_
Rick Tait, Dept GM21, NMBASE Group, TSE, LON40, Tel: ESN (730) 3352
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Tel: +44 (0)81 945-3352, Fax: +44 (0)81 945-3116, Email: rickt@bnr.co.uk
From: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Hoover flight deals
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:02:46 GMT
	<JIM.92Dec7181200@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk>
Reply-To: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Distribution: uk
Organization: Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth

On 7 Dec 92 18:12:00 GMT, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) said:

jim> However, I never could work out the logic behind air fares and
jim> traffic routes.

There are two types of logic: market segmentation and restraint of
trade. More on these:

Market segmentation:

	Business travelers are ready to pay more than private travelers,
	but if the market were to work, the level of fares would be
	set by the marginal passenger, that would be a private traveler,
	as by and large people traveling on business by plane cannot
	just give up or choose another less convenient transport
	service, while private travelers can and do. Thus there are
	millions of conditions on fares for the marginal traveler, that
	make them unpalatable to business travelers.

Restraint of trade:

	1) For reasons of national prestige (and, weakly, security),
	most countries have national airlines, which are hopelessly
	uneconomic, as there are strong economies of scale in the
	airline business. So, to prop up their national airlines,
	governments subject all air traffic to a cartel (IATA), whose
	fundamental principle is reciprocity; every route must be share
	more or less equally between the airlines of the two countries
	involved, and it is absolutely forbidden for an airline to do
	third-country transport, that is to carry passengers that do not
	leave or arrive in its country.

	2) Location is everything in the airport business. So, landing
	rights for the more appealing airports are carefully
	administered by national governments, that give them to favoured
	(i.e. national airlines) and those that collude with them.

Two further notes: British Rail have been trying for years to achieve
market segmentation, with ensuing fare complications; and USA-UK and
UK-Netherlands routes are the only ones that have been liberalized a
bit.
--
Piercarlo Grandi                   | JNET: pcg@uk.ac.aber
Dept of CS, University of Wales    | UUCP: ...!aber-cs!pcg
Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@aber.ac.uk
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:13:15 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:
> mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:
> : steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:
> : > Yes, but plenty of accidents involving cycles and cars are
> : > partly/completely the fault of the cyclist.
> 
> I'm not going to discuss this further with you.  It seems that you and
> one or two others on here have the idea that while motorists should
> take responsibility for their actions (which I wholeheartedly agree
> with) cyclists are somehow absolved from doing so, and are not
> at fault when their incompetence causes accidents.

No, I'm just pointing out that car owners are knowingly and willingly
doing something incredibly dangerous -- that is, driving a car -- even
though it makes them vastly more likely to kill someone should an
accident occur.  The question of who's fault the accident is doesn't
enter into it as far as I can see.  You seemed to think, however, that
only the person who directly caused the event was responsible, so I
commented:

> : If I leave little bottles of nitroglycerine on the road, and some damn fool
> : goes and knocks one over, the resulting explosion is entirely his fault. 
> : Therefore he should pay, right?
> 
> You appear to be feel that even if the accident is the fault to the
> cyclist, the car driver should somehow be blamed for having a bigger
> vehicle.

He should certainly take some of the blame for doing something
unnecessarily dangerous.  Or is the mad bomber similarly not to blame?


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:12:47 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

pho@mserv1.dl.ac.uk (P.Owens,C20,3492) writes:

~~~, with the penalty for non-conformance being that
~~~they be imprisoned in their own homes, or have access to their
~~~businesses cut off.
~~
~~Either the getting there is worth the payment of the fee or not. If it
~~is, they'll go, if it sin't they won't. Imprisonment is where you are
~~forced to stay there whether you want to or not.

~So, if I buy up all the land surounding your house and then charge a
~1000000000000000000000 pound toll to cross it. Then you're not imprisonned in
~your own home but free to pay.

The Psychotic Monopolist Idea again. Where this kind of system operates,
I understand that land is sold with rights of way included in the deeds.

Even supposing it wasn't, I think the possibility of this happening
would encourage the owner to buy a right of way in competition with the
prospective Psychotic Monopolist. If it'd really cost them that much
otherwise, then it'd obviously pay them to do so.

~Pete Owens

FoFP
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:43:28 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:
: Oh, do be serious.  If people wanted to buy records, the manufacturers would
: make them.  They're only in the business to make money, after all.  Cassettes
: are analogue, noisy, and wear out just like records, but they're still made. 

I agree with the original poster that the record (sic) industry is
making every effort to deliberately kill the format off.  The industry
doesn't seem to want more than one read-only format and one read/write
format, for obvious reasons of economy.  Look at the kerfuffle over
DCC/Mini-Disc.  Record companies are lending their support to one or
the other format, not both.  I'll wager that only *one* of those
formats is allowed to take off, just like the video format wars all
those years ago.  Wait and see how long compact casettes survive once
one or other of those becomes prevalent.

And it's obvious why.  They know perfectly well that record-buyers
don't stop buying music when records become unavailable.  They're
forced into buying CDs instead.  The record companies don't lose out.
So they save big $$$ by making one product instead of two.  And pass
that saving onto the customer by keeping the price of CDs low -- NOT!

: What has killed records is that nobody wants to buy them except a few hi-fi
: bores spouting pseudo-science.  And the reason for that is that LPs have no
: real advantages over CD, except that very high quality equipment to play them
: can be made more cheaply than an equivalently high quality CD player.

I don't know about pseudo-science.  I like records because they work
by magic, whereas CDs work by dumb brute force.  It's just wonderful
that scratching a needle on a piece of plastic can still outperform
all this digital technology.

Also I like the fact that record players are made by small companies,
using traditional skills, mostly in this country.
-- 
				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: ljp@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Guido)
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:46:38 GMT

In article <Bz903r.E0L@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> cabr53@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("R.A.McPheat") writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.101847.704@city.cs> simon@cs.city.ac.uk (Simon Brock-Gunn) writes:
>>However, for one of the companies - Olivetti - this has had the reverse
>>effect:  After calling their 0800 number recently, an item of junk mail
>>arrived last Friday with the following address label on the front:
>>
>>Anyone got any suggestions?
>
>If they come with reply paid envelopes you could try sticking them on to a
>brick and posting them back. When they get the postage bill that might make
>them stop.
>

Do what people did to Murdoch and his 0800 number for satelite dishes.
Phone the number and don't replace your receiver.

-- 
 "Even truth itself will jostle   |     /\     |  MAIL ljp@cch.cov.ac.uk
 its adversary in a narrow pass"  |    /<>\    |  REAL NAME Lloyd Patton
            John Warr             |   /____\   |
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon)
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Distribution: uk
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:02:54 GMT

In article <JRG.92Dec14162857@owl.doc.ic.ac.uk> jrg@doc.ic.ac.uk (James Grinter) writes:
>In article <Bz4Grp.7q@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk> joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk (Joe Sharkey) writes:
>
>
>   >A lot of people still complain that CD sounds "cold" or "artificial".
>   >Well, yes, the old players did; the first CD player I bought (the
>   >original Philips CD104) was pretty awful.  But each year's selection
>   >of machines is audibly better than the previous year's; they're
>   >catching up fast.
>
>   I still use 1/4" tape - if it was good enough for the record company master,
>   it's god enough for me.
>
>This reminds me of something I have often puzzled over. Perhaps the
>answer is so easy that I'm missing something, anyway - heregoes...
>
>We're told, that the latest players are always getting better and
>reading and playing the data from the CD more accurately. Does this
>give the possibility that the data on the disc, when it was recorded,
>could be incorrect too? Or are they saying that the recording
>equipment has always been perfect, but we've only just fixed the
>players?

No, it's probably more the case that the distortion introduced in
analogue equipment can sound nicer than that introduced by digital
equipment, eg valve amplifiers sound `mellow'.  Even-harmonic
distortion I think...

Damon
-- 
Damon Hart-Davis                          Internet: dhd@exnet.co.uk, d@hd.org

Public-access UNIX (Suns), news and mail for UK#5 per month.  FIRST MONTH FREE.
[1.35] Cheap Sun eqpt.  UUCP news/mail feeds.  Tel/Fax: +44 81 755 0077.
From: graham@wilde.ucs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Rule)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:55:55 GMT

benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge) writes:
>In article <Bz948z.Fxs@fulcrum.co.uk> igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten) writes:
>>In article <29507@castle.ed.ac.uk> benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge) writes:
>>> Well, no, not very helpful, but I think I'm right in saying these
>>> companies are breaking the law. A stern official letter mentioning the
>>
>>You're wrong.  The Mail Preference thingie has no legal status.
>>
>>ian
>Oh, OK fair enough. But as their lists are stored on a computer,
>wouldn't there be some way round it using the Data Protection Act. Can
>you demand removal of your info on a machine that deosn't _need_ it?

The Data Protection Act does require that ...
  "Personal data shall be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date."
but also defines "Personal data" as "data consisting of information which
relates to a living individual...".

I would interpret this as meaning that there is no requirement under the
act to keep data up to date if it relates only to people who are no
longer living.

Graham Rule
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:43:18 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:
: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:
: > Yes, but plenty of accidents involving cycles and cars are
: > partly/completely the fault of the cyclist.

I'm not going to discuss this further with you.  It seems that you and
one or two others on here have the idea that while motorists should
take responsibility for their actions (which I wholeheartedly agree
with) cyclists are somehow absolved from doing so, and are not
at fault when their incompetence causes accidents.

: If I leave little bottles of nitroglycerine on the road, and some damn fool
: goes and knocks one over, the resulting explosion is entirely his fault. 
: Therefore he should pay, right?

You appear to be feel that even if the accident is the fault to the
cyclist, the car driver should somehow be blamed for having a bigger
vehicle.  I think this is an extremely arrogant, holier-than-thou
attitude.

-- Steve
-- 
				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: ian@edscom.demon.co.uk (Ian Green)
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Organization: EDS-Scicon, Milton Keynes, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:58:16 GMT

John Woods (eanv20@castle.ed.ac.uk) wrote:

[stern official letter bit deleted]

: Post the 0800 numbers to the net & several of us will instruct our
: modems to 'phone them constantly with appropriate faxes.  If they don't
: have faxes, they'll just get unpleasant sounds.  Each call brings them
: nearer bankruptcy.  I'm sure several others would be willing to help
: in a situation like this.  

What a good idea!!!  We could also start a news group for the top 10 companies
of the week to avoid 'cos of their awful advertising practices.  Second
thoughts, better make that the top 100000000000.

I have to say that the practice of phone advertising annoys me more.  At least
I can consign junk mail to the ground level round filing cabinet.  For what it's
worth I'll pass on a suggestion from a friend of mine who was plagued by
double glazing firms calling him at home.  One day he actually said "yes - I'd
be delighted to see your products, when can you call round?" and duly arranged
the appointment.  When the hapless sales rep (short for reprobate) called round
he said to him in very level tones.....

"Ah, yes - you rang me a week ago.  Well look, I realise that this is not your
fault personally and I only have a gripe against your firm, but I am not at all
interested in your products and only invited you round to waste your time - 
much as you waste my time with unwanted phone calls"......

Ian.
-- 
/--------------------------------------v----------------------------------\
| Opinions expressed are my own and    | Phone: +44 908 585858 or 284508  |
| not necessarily those of my employer | Fax:   +44 908 584620            |
\--------------------------------------^----------------------------------/
From: cs89jmb@brunel.ac.uk (Aeon Flux)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: no subject (file transmission)
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:18:44 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Zack Evans - The Rave Child (pyc081@cent1.lancs.ac.uk) wrote:
: To: dcl-cs!edcastle!cam
: Subject: Re: Speed freaks: some figures at last
: Newsgroups: uk.misc
: In-Reply-To: <29253@castle.ed.ac.uk>
: References: <ByqyI9.IDn@ibmpcug.co.uk> <20587@acorn.co.uk> <1992Dec7.111017.10639@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
: Organization: Lancaster University (by a very circuitious route)
: Cc: 
: Bcc: 

: In article <29253@castle.ed.ac.uk> you write:

: >Ah! Now I understand why so many car drivers think cycling is so
: >dangerous. For cyclists being approached from behind with speed
: >differentials of 20mph happens so often it hardly ever stops
: >happening; in towns the differential is sometimes 40mph, and on the
: >open road 60mph.
: >
: >Cyclists, take a bow: you are, compared to the "rest of us", heroes of
: >quite remarkable calibre.

: And don't I know it. :-)

I used to know it, until several weeks ago when my bike got nicked (b*stards)
but sometimes I do wonder if I'll make the mile from the university to my
house without taking a detour to the hospital!

8^}

--
"I may be a shallow guy, but a shallow guy with a great ass!" - Cat, Red Dwarf

Jason "Archangel" Banham               Internet: cs89jmb@brunel.ac.uk       
					         aangel@sequent.co.uk

   ***** Acorn rep on StudentSoft/Archimedes owner/Computer Scientist *****
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:48:32 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <DBPVVB22w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
>The other thing to check with a CD player is that it has *twin* D/A or
>Bitstream conversion systems.  Cheaper players often share one D/A between
>left and right, which leads to phase problems.

Um, well, except the phase error is going to be a consistent time delay
of 1/22000 second (approx) in one channel.  You can compensate for that
by sitting 1/2 inch closer to the speaker which is 'behind'.

I believe that there are potential sources of music-munging in a single
converter machine, but due to artifacts in the switching circuitry
necessary to switch it back and forth between left and right channels.
'Phase' is, I think, a red herring.  To counterbalance, though, a dual
D/A machine can have problems if the two D/As are not very well
matched.  All of which leads, really, to my claim that you shouldn't
worry about how many D/As it has; instead, you should listen to it, and
worry about what it sounds like.  There's very little you can predict
about a CD player by looking at what technology it uses.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132