HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Little Men
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:08:29 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>In article <22JUL199208582109@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (S
herri Calvo) writes:
>>
>>Anybody else dig out the dusty classics of their childhood lately? How
>>did it go?
>>

Books that you wouldn't expect would stand up, but do:
    Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm
    Pollyanna
Pollyanna-- as in, to be a Polyanna-- is a lot more subtle than the stereotype
makes it.  In fact, Polyanna is a kid who doesn't blythely ignore problems or
pain-- but tries to find "something to be glad about" in everything.  This
doesn't solve her problems, and she knows it-- but it avoids self-pity. For
instance, this "glad game" started when she asked for a doll, but the
missonary barrel came with 2 pairs of crutches instead. She and her father
enjoyed being glad because they had no use for the crutches-- but she admits
she still wanted the doll...

Other books (older ones) that I still enjoy:
    A Little Princess-- some may call it sappy, but I like it
    The Secret Garden
    Noel Streetfield's _Shoes_ books (Ballet Shoes, etc.)
    E.E. Nesbit: _Railway_Children_, _The_Phoenix_&_the_Carpet_,
    _The_Wouldbegoods_-- archaic language but very sympathetic portraits of
    kids.
    _Linnets_&_Valerians_ by Elizabeth Goudge

    and many more...


    
-- 
Jennifer Heise                           Net: jahb@lehigh.edu
Reference Dept.,                         Phone: (215) 758-3072
Fairchild-Martindale Libraries #8A,  Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015

"You know I don't know so many things, but I know what's been goin' on:
They put in a nickel, and they want a dollar song"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13309 talk.religion.misc:12904 sci.skeptic:13326
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:25:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <24866@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.151332.19380@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes...
# #How small does the estimated probability of a theory being true have to get
# #before one comes right out and believes it's wrong? If some evidence turns
# #up, nothing prevents me from revising my belief accordingly, so I don't
# #accept your last statement. One can always change one's mind; one is not
# #required to reserve judgement in order to be scientific, merely to modify
# #it as appropriate.
# 
# With regard to most prepackaged religions the case is weaker than just having
# no evidence.  For example, any religion predicated on the Universe being
# roughly 6000 years old definitely has more than just "no evidence" working
# against it.  This does not preclude the existence of a deity, of course, just
# the validity of someone's assumptions about the actions of said deity.
# 
# Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character

Which prepackaged religions predicate "the Universe being roughly
6000 years old"?  I seem to have missed that one.

Even many fundamentalist Christians don't subscribe to that notion, and 
certainly, most Christians of all stripes don't.  In any case, it
isn't part of the religion.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:37:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Mao II by Don DeLillo
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books

In rec.arts.books, emzx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

> Just finished Don DeLillo's "Mao II" - and I must say I'm sort of disappointed.
>  This is the first DeLillo I read, and although he is a good writer, he's very
> slow and painstaking, describing, circumscribing, never really getting to the
> point.
> 
> This is a good question, though, I think: what exactly is the POINT of Mao II? 
> If anybody has any good things to tell me, please post them/e-mail them. 
> Thanks.
> 

Well, I am not sure I figured out a central theme.  It covers the
coopting of writers buy the writing industry and turning ANYTHING
they write (even revelution) into a commodity.

It talks about the search for meaning amongst the dehumanizing
effects of the modern world, specifically, it seems to suggest that
the power of the mass of humanity is soon to swamp the individual, 
and it seems to glorify the individuals who give these masses
their direction.  The book has no closure, but it clearly intends to 
suggest that the dissappeared writer will be on of these people.  


I found the book interesting and much of the writing to be 
fairly satisfying, but I, too, am not absolutely sure what DeLillo
intended to say.  But it is not clear if that matters.  I got
many interesting thoughts and ideas while reading it, so it probably
served the purpose and perhaps part of the author's intent.

doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: cs lewis and jrr tolkien
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:00:16 GMT

In article <plp1.712436321@Ra.MsState.Edu> plp1@Ra.MsState.Edu (pat parker) writes:
>
>somewhere in the dark, cobweb-ridden corners of my mind, i seem to remember
>reading that cs lewis and jrr tolkien were associates or friends or something.
>
>is this true?  if so, can anyone cite specific examples of how the two men
>influenced each other's writings?  if not, can anyone forgive my halucinations?

The Inklings, by Humphrey Carpenter, should provide you with sufficient
background information to make up your own mind on this.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12844 rec.arts.sf.misc:2140 rec.humor:24260 alt.folklore.urban:19495 alt.religion.kibology:3157
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:20:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
: In article <1992Jul22.191303.20390@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: > 
: >I would not say that he was an atheist. More correctly, he just did not
: >accept any "Devine text" as literal truth. 
: 
: "Andy", no doubt . . .
: 
: I think Asimov made it pretty plain that he considered the existence
: to the supernatural--of any sort--to be exceedingly unlikely.  It's a
: fair claim to describe him as having been an atheist.

Yes and no. An atheist would deny that there could be a supernatural. An
agnostic would say that he did not currently believe in the supernatural
but is open to proof otherwise.

I would expect that Asimov, being the scientist he was, would always be
willing to accept proof to the contrary.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: The Conquest
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 04:33:28 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <BrtBuL.KqE@watserv1.waterloo.edu> msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:
>
>Roger Squires asked me about reading Prescott, Bernal Diaz del
>Castillo, and Cortes.
>

	[Lot's of neat stuff which I have saved for reference,
	and which I greatly appreciate.]

>
>I'd welcome any and all other recommendations.
>

	Well, :) I made a trip to the library today, and here are
	some tips on Mexico.  I'm almost through _Many Mexicos_
	by Lesley Bird Simpson (a short narrative history of Mexico),
	and I cannot recommend it, as it is too short, and the 
	presentation seems biased, with lots of sarcastic comments
	(read the chapter Santa Anna's Leg for some good laughs).
	If I had been smarter I would have checked out
	_A History of Mexico_, by Parkes, which looks a little more
	empathetic and scholarly in approach.

	In connection with an earlier thread on _The Zimmerman Telegram_
	I have gotten _Revolution on the Border, The United States and Mexico
	1910-1920_, Linda B. Hall & Don M. Coerver, UNM Press, 1988,
	ISBN 0-8263-1099-0, which covers the crucial period around
	WWI, and discusses the economic, military, and social
	relations between the two countries.  Looks good and is
	only 150 pages in length (always a blessing).

	For the conquest, I found Castillo, but in the worst edition
	possible: a facsimile of an 1800 edition of awful quality,
	and where the esses look like effs, so you get sentences like:
		Nothing was to be feen or fpoken of but felling lands
		to purchafe arms and horfes, quilting coats of mail,
		making bread, and falting pork for fea ftore.
	God.  But I've started it and am enjoying it.  Haven't found
	Cortes' letters, but I did find an abridged Prescott (unlike
	you I like abridgements, if they are well done).

	And I found one you haven't mentioned!?!
		_The War of Conquest, How It Was Waged Here in Mexico_
		"The Aztecs' Own Story As Given to Fr. Bernardino
		de Sahagun, Rendered into Modern English by
		Arthur J. O. Anderson and Charles E. Dibble",
		U. of Utah Press, 1978, ISBN 0-87480-111-7
	This one is a portion of the Florentine Codex (which I'm
	sure you recognize), and as the jacket says:
		is a modernized xlation of the native text, yet it
		is complete and faithful in style to the Nahuatl
		version.  And published here for the first time are
		over ninety dramatic illustrations from the original 
		manuscript in the Laurentian Library in Florence.
	Looks good, and is less than 100 pages (thrice a blessing).

	Might be interesting to look at Madame de la Barca
	(Frances Erskine) _Life in Mexico_ about life in pre and post
	revolutionary times (I couldn't find it though).

	Thanks again!

>              Mike Morris
>        (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jon@MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Seeking a book
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:23:56 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corp
Originator: jon@cyclone


I'm looking for an English language copy of _The Little Red Schoolbook_.

I'm sorry but I cannot remember who the authors are or who published it.

I would be willing to spend up to $25 (U.S.) for a copy in good condition.

Thanks.
-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party  
  Andre Marrou    Nancy Lord for  | 1528 Pennsylvania Avenue SE  (202)543-1988
  for President   Vice-President  | Washington, DC 20003         (800)682-1776  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Re: _Mao_II_ by Don DeLillo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 13:38:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

>
>	"The more books they publish, the weaker we become.  The
>	secret force that drives the industry is the compulsion to
>	make writers harmless."
>
>And so on... the writer character in _Mao_II_ is hilarious!  Hilariously
>maudlin, and hilariously self-knowing in all his pathetic (and bathetic)
>postures.  I love it when he says, "Work is what I do to feel bad."
>
>							--Fiona

Did you notice similarities to Phillip Roth and his various written personae?
Roth edited the "Writer of the Other Europe" series and wrote frequently
that where in Eastern Europe, writers were taken seriously enough to suppress,
torture and torment, yet eventually led the Reformation in the person of
Havel.  In America, they are dismissed, ignored, given Hollywood contracts.

I also caught echoes of Lonoff from The Ghost Writer in Bill Gray.  "I build
sentences"/"turning sentences around".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim Szeliga	 Org:National Weather Service / Hydrologic Remote Sensing
Voice: (612) 725-3259  			NOHRSC BBS:  (612) 725-3230  (8N1)
UUCP:	apple!netcomsv!frost!tim	Internet:  tim@snow.nohrsc.nws.gov
Street: 1825 May St. Long Lake, Minn  55356
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"It's as though they designed this to the maximum degree of
let the relatives squirm."
		Mao II,  Don Delillo
> 


-- 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:53:34 GMT


My two entries in the contest:

Joesph Heller    Catch-22
John Irving      A Prayer For Owen Meany
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 08:57:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Jul24.194709.1844@sco.com> joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash) writes:
>
>I have a friend who claims that my love of literature is "a mere
>hobby" and that "reading any kind of fiction would be a waste of
>my time."  He's a scientist (specializes in an esoteric branch of
>biology that I can't even remember how to spell, let alone 
>understand :-), and he refuses to read ANY novels.  He reads only
>books by scientists (and yes, I've seen him check their credentials
>on the book jacket -- a doctorate from Yale or Harvard is approved
>worthy of his reading time).

	Your friend is a snob and a provincial.  He is probably beyond anyone's
help, yours included.  If he thinks that only science is worth reading, and
only science done at Harvard and Yale at that, he is also deluded in very
fundamental way.

	I would advise you to sneak up behind him and hit him really hard
on the top of the head with a rubber mallet.  You might shake loose something
interesting, and from your report, you can't do him any real harm.

-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Upton Sinclair's _The Jungle_
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:13:51 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <17JUL199220381203@bestsd.sdsu.edu>, regan1016@bestsd.sdsu.edu (T. ELIZABETH HARVEY) writes:
> In article <rauser.711422749@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)      writes...
# #    Anybody who hasn't read this book, I highly recommend it as a fascinating
# #study of propaganda. Sinclair was a radical socialist and his novel about
# #a Lithuanian immigrant is so moving and so downright depressing that you
# #find yourself thinking socialism _must_ be the answer...until you realize
# #how unrealistic the novel is, and how your emotions are being manipulated.
# #It is _very_ interesting to see this effect on yourself...
# 
# But remember, the extreme melodrama of the plot may be unrealistic, but the 
# depiction of meat-packing plants *were* realistic.  So realistic that Teddy 

Oh?  Based on what?  The Congressional committee, that had never been
inside a slaughterhouse before?

# Roosevelt supposedly gave up sausage for a least a week, and created the 
# FDA in response to Sinclair's `expose' ...
# 
# #Richard J. Rauser          Holli Would If She Could
# 
# ---<--<-{@ | "I believe that before all else, I am a reasonable human being,
# Elizabeth  | just as you are -- or, at all events, that I must try and 

He gave it up for a whole week?  Wow!  He must have been REALLY SCARED!

Roosevelt didn't create the FDA.  Congress did, with a lot of urging
and pressure from the larger meat packers -- who had been lobbying
for government meat inspection for many years, in the hopes that it
could be used to break down protectionist barriers in Europe.  The
radical historian Gabriel Kolko's _The Triumph of Conservatism_
discusses the history of state meat inspection laws, and their
use in keeping competition crushed down, as well as the lobbying
efforts by the big meat packers for federal inspection.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The nature of enlightenment
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:54:26 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <9207291651.AA14458@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> Francis Muir writes:
>         Mark Taranto writes:
>                 Clayton Cramer writes:
#                         Unfortunately, I run into too many college students
#                         like the gal who recently expressed amazement at
#                         discovering the U.S. had a Civil War in the last
#                         century.  (Yes, educated in California).
# 
#                 This is unfortunate.  I'm as amazed by this as I am by the
#                 fact that there are still people who refer to women as
#                 "Gals."  It is unfortunate that education does not imply
#                 enlightenment.
# 
#         It is one, maybe the only one, of Cramer's charms that he is quaint.
#         One example of his quaintness is that he does not feel compelled
#         assiduously and slavishly to follow the Correct line in his choice
#         of words and expressions. PC is not enlightenment, it is Gadarenism.
# 
# I quite agree with Francis about following the dictates of political
# correctness.  However, I also see that in almost every movement, there
# is something positive to be gleaned from it.  In the case of Fascism,
# perhaps the only positive is that it is nice to have the trains run on
# time.  Francis might find Clayton Cramer's use of "Gals" quaint,
# but taken in the context of Clayton's other articles, I find it
# similar to the use of "Boy" when referring to blacks.  I doubt that
# Francis would find this quaint, and doubt that he would reject it even
# though it does follow from the PC line of thinking.

What does this mean?  Are you implying a misogynist attitude to my
other postings?  Can you give some examples?

By the way, what is the politically correct way to describe, in one
word, an eight year old black male?  "Pre-man"?  "Non-female"?

# Mark


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:30:18 GMT

Joanne Eglash wrote:
 
Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous decades and
current writers) in which the subject of science and scientists is
andled intelligently?  Such as a book about a marine biologist, 
perhaps?  I seem to remember a book about a woman who was interested in
anthropology...Margaret Drabble?  Lloyd's birthday is in August, and
I'm going to sneak in a novel with his other gifts! 

Meg Worley responds:

C.P. Snow.  Anything by him.  He was a fine and respected scientist, and,
I believe, an even more fine and respected novelist.  Not bad as an
essayist either (cf _The Two Cultures_, which might do both you and your
friend a spot of good, as it has done me and mine).  

A bit of a cold fish too, but that's not important.

Rage away,

meg

	A vigorous dissent on Snow from this corner; I don't know if
he was considered a great scientist but I think his pronouncement on
"the two cultures" uninformed and condescending towards the
humanities. As an suggestion for someone trying to convert a scientist
towards literature I think that Snow would only confirm prejudices
rather than expanding insights. E.g.: Snow thought Ibsen the only
"world-class" writer to understand the industrial revolution. Snow had
an authoritative ignorance hard to replicate these days. I'd recommend
Russell McCommach's _Night Thoughts of a Classical Physicist_ as an
interesting book that deals with changing scientific "paradigms" in an
interesting way. John Banville's novels about Copernicus and Kepler
are good and maybe Gerald Durell's books.  None of these are
"scientific" authors in a rigorous way but they do address scientific
themes in a manner that could be interesting to a scientist. 

--Keith
--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:26:34 GMT


In article ... brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>   The agnostic when asked, "is there a god?"  might say "I don't know,"
>   rather than "I think not."   SO WHAT?   That's about the only difference.
>   The agnostic does not go to church, or follow any moral code because it was
>   handed down by some god.  The agnostic does not worship or have specific
>   plans for the afterlife or any of the things that distinguish the faithful.

Actually, there's one very significant difference.

Atheists can be -- indeed, tend to be -- as smugly certain of their positions 
as the more fanatical religionists, while agnostics tend to be more tolerant.
It's fairly rare (though, as this newsgroup has shown, not unheard of) for an
agnostic to act as if anyone who still believed in God was a medieval cretin.


		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:48:21 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

In article <1992Jul26.170855.11833@athena.mit.edu>, kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:

> >Who is Ahasuerus?  There is no entry in 
> >the Smaller Classical Dictionary, nor in the
> >back of the Webster's Unabridged, so 
> >I'm confident someone here will know.
 
> 	Check the Bible, i.e. Book of Esther. 
 
While reading _Busman's Honeymoon_, I too wondered about the name
Ahasuerus.  _Harper's Bible Dictionary_, kept for just such occasions,
informed me that there was another Ahasuerus as well, in the Book 
of Daniel (obviously not Doctorow's), who was the son of Darius
the Mede.  No doubt DLS was on intimate terms with him as well.

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology