HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sws37449@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven W. Salzman)
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:25:41 GMT

daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:


>Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
>amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
>to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
>cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
>locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
>and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.

It should be noted that SP has never been a pacesetter in the business 
world for proper asset management.  Given the tremendous number of 
Tunnel Motors that they have (541 by my count, including DRGW's)
it would be pretty tough for them to find a similar number of "A" 
units to match.  This way they have plenty of flexibility in assigning
motive power.  I imagine that SP and DRGW had this in mind when they
ordered.

Even with optimal management, it is difficult to keep assigned power in
the proper assignment.  Units fail, regional business (such as SP's
chemical traffic) may improve, and locomotives are needed elsewhere on
the system.  SP has never had a great maintenance program, so locomotives
do fail on line frequently.  This is when that flexibility of not having
B-units in your consists is important.

The B-unit is indeed a smart idea.  Ideally, to minimize costs, only
the amount of units necessary to lead trains on the system would have
cabs.  But railroads are a long ways from reaching that level of asset
specialization. 

My guess is that SP's (and DRGW's) main priority when ordering the
Tunnel Motors, was to get high-horsepower, six-axle motive power.
They knew that they needed the tunnel motor package, because some of
these would handle trains in mountainous territory.  But power 
assignments could not be predicted with such accuracy as to warrant
limiting the number with the tunnel motor package.

Steven W. Salzman
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
sws37449@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

I don't work here, I just take classes.
All opinions are my own.
 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Northeast storm vs. freight operations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:01:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Has anyone heard what effect, if any, the storm had on freight operations
in the New York area?  The Susquehanna might have been particularly
vulnerable, since the town of Little Ferry, where they have a lot of
facilities, was hit very hard.
From: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Amtrak Routes
Date: 12 Dec 1992 05:23:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-30.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <dickson-101292151406@fac2-atalk10.atalk.stolaf.edu>  
dickson@stolaf.edu (Jim Dickson) writes:

> How about Minneapolis-Des Moines-Kansas City?  This summer's Amtrak  
report
> suggested this route might turn an operating profit in year 1.

Such a route would be useful not only because of the cities on the route  
itself, but because it would intersect with Amtrka routes to the west.  
Presently, to get from Minneapolis to Colorado, one has to go through  
Chicago, and spend a night, because the timetable does not figure on  
people getting off of an eastbound transcontinental only to board a  
westbound. The route would be invaluble for traffic from St.  
Paul/Mineapolis to anywhere southwest of it.

Another train I would like to see is an overnight train betwen St. Paul/  
Minneapolis and Chicago, to court some of the numerous business (and  
other) travelers that currently fly between the cities.

Also, I read in a local paper a couple days ago that Amtrak is seeking to  
revive a Chicago-Florida Route, over the former route of the Floridian.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: carl_henderson@um.cc.umich.edu (Carl Henderson)
Subject: Re: Business travel by rail (Thanks for the idea)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 09:57:42 EST
Organization: University of Michigan
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Distribution: usa

In article <Bz8ppw.CJv@well.sf.ca.us>, bobmacd@well.sf.ca.us (Robert
MacDowell) wrote:
> >the extra money to go on a sleeper. Alas, I'm not rich :-( but perhaps the
> >train has a public shower.
> 
> No it doesn't!  Only the deluxe sleepers have showers.
> 
NITPICK: Some Superliner sleepers have been retrofitted with public showers
(public for sleeping car passengers, that is!). One restroom (dressing
room) downstairs was sacrificed.  There is no good way to predict if your
train will draw one with a public shower, however.  All deluxe bedrooms
still do have their own shower in the bathroom (make sure which button you
press when you want to flush...).

Carl
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com (Jeff Hintzman)
Subject: Re: Talking Detectors
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:37:51 GMT
Reply-To: hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com
Organization: HP IC Business Division R&D, Palo Alto, CA

In article <BzDHys.2Bt@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma) writes:
|> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
|> 
|> >I have several questions regarding railroad track detectors. My local
|> >timetable mentions three kinds: talking, non-talking, and talk on  
|> >defect only. Since I know nothing about this topic also I'm going to ask
|> >for some more help from fellow netters:

Much useful stuff deleted.

How do the "smart" detectors count the number of axles that go by?
Photocells?  Laser beam?  Clink-clunk sound on rail joint? :-)
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Hintzman                                  hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Integrated Circuit Business Division 
Palo Alto, CA                                              (415) 857-7616
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:01:52 GMT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <3230061@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM>, bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner) writes:

> I don't think tunnel motors on the point in the mountains is as much of a waste
> as tunnel motors running across Kansas ! 

What makes it a "waste"?  I should rather think it a waste to have a straight
SD45 or SD40 wheezing and overheating in a long tunnel.  If the T-2's operate
well in tunnels and on the prairie, and conventional units only operate well
on the prairie (that is, outside of long tunnels), then where is the real
waste?  The Tunnel Motors proved to be good all-around system units for the
SP (and Rio Grande), a railroad which has both types of terrain.

Another "real waste" would be the inefficiency of restricting Tunnel Motors
to mountainous routes.

-- Bruce Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dickson@stolaf.edu (Jim Dickson) (Jim Dickson)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: St. Olaf College, Northfield, MN
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:18:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.021725.3611@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) wrote:
>  
>  That would be Dakota Midland and Eastern. They run over what was the
> C&NW from Winona MN on the Mississippi to Rapid City SD

I believe this reference is to the Dakota _Minnesota_ and Eastern, which
runs through Owatonna, MN (about 50 mi So of the Twin Cities).

BTW, CP Rail (former Soo LIne/Milw) may have recently been given permission
to abandon and tear out most of the Milwaukee track between Austin, MN and
Comus (between Northfield and Fairbault).  The Rock Island (now CNW) and
Milwaukee lines from the Twin Cities to the south separate at Comus.
From: sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: New Superliner Question
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:04:04 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


Out of curiosity, who is building the new Superliner equipment?
I thought that after the original order of Superliner equipment was
completed that Pullman went out of business. Also, how much new
equipment was ordered?

Thanks
Scott Farleigh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Walking in tunnels (was Re: Railroad Sued by Trespasser's Family)
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:47:30

In article <1flftmINN4bh@hp-col.col.hp.com> cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best) writes:

    >   ...and with the really long [tunnels] like the Moffat or Cascade, you
    > run the risk of the curtain at the far end being shut and huge fan on.  
    
    Huh?  Can you explain more about this?  If it was a joke, I was a boob and
    didn't get it.  Does it have something to do with ventilation?

Since the first long tunnels (Hoosac in 1871, etc), there's typically
been a vent fan which blows air in.  Sometimes this is in the middle,
if a central shaft was dug during construction, sometimes it's at the
end.  I suppose the end door originated at some site where the fan
was at the end, to keep most of the air from going out the nearby
portal where it wouldn't do any good.

Later (diesel era), they installed them on one end of centrally-ventilated
tunnels, too.  I think this was because of the tendency of a train to push
the air along with it, which resulted in the diesels getting overheated
and suffocated.  Keeping the door closed except when a train is actually
passing through the portal forces the air to blow past the train as it
moves.  I guess this was less of an issue with steam power, since they
usually entered tunnels with as much steam pressure and as little fire as
the engine crew could manage.  Even if the fire didn't burn well, the
energy in the boiler would help get them through.

Hoosac (4.75 mi.) got its door in the early 50s.  Moffat had a door at
that time, but it may date further back.  In my travels on Amtrak I
haven't noticed doors on any tunnels in the 0.5 - 2 mi. range, and I
can think off-hand of any I've been through in the 2 - 4 mile range.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: andre@king.slc.mentorg.com (Andre' Hut)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Organization: /net/king/usr1/andre/.organization
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:29:59

In article <1992Dec15.172816.482@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
   >>Having been a Milwaukee fan since I was young, (their
   >>Kansas City line went through my hometown) I have
   >>always wondered where their line to the Pacific went.
   >>They had a line through to Rapid City, SD.  I think
   >>it went northwest from their, but I'm not sure.
   >>Can anyone fill me in on its route ?

   >	   Not exactly, without maps, but the main was 150 or so miles north.
   >	   I am most familiar with it thru Montana, where it manages to miss many
   >	   of the major cities.  8)>>.  The Pacific Coast Extension crossed
   >	   North Dakota, about midway up, then:
   >		   North of Billings, Montana
   >		   Harlowton, SSW to (Start Electrification)
   >		   Three Forks
   >		   W then NW to Butte,
   >		   NW to Dear Lodge.
   >		   W to ????

			W to Missoula, where their passenger station still sits on the
	bank of the Clark Fork river.  It's now a restaurant.  Where the tracks
	once were, is now a park along the river.

	Many of the old Milwaukee employees now work for Montana Rail Link.  They
	say MRL stands for "Milwaukee Road Lives"...



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are solely my own, and do not necessarily reflect those
of my employer.

Andre' Hut       andre@slc.mentorg.com  or  utah-cs!caeco!andre
Mentor Graphics, Suite 300, 5295 South 300 West, Murray, Utah 84107
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
Subject: Rotary dump coal hoppers
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:19:08 GMT


The other day I was watching a CSX coal train that had some rotary dump coal 
hoppers in it.  They were lettered DEEX (Detroit Edison) and were made by 
Ortner.  The thing that caught my eye was that the wheels were sticking out 
past the ends of the cars about 12-15 inches.  Any reason for this?  Is it 
something to do with the fact that they're rotary dump cars.  I've never seen 
this on other types of freight cars.  Usually the trucks are completely 
underneath the car.

--
*******************************************************************************
John Marshall, III                           jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
            Pittsburgh Penguins - Stanley Cup Champions - 1991, 1992
             "It's a great day for hockey." - "Badger" Bob Johnson
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:28:31 GMT
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel

haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:


>In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu> mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu (Alan M. McKenney) writes:
>I don't know much about AMTRAK - but the last time I was in Grass
>Valley, CA (which is about 25 miles from Auburn, which I guess is
>where AMTRAK stops) I saw a bus that appeared to be operated by AMTRAK,
>or as a connector to AMTRAK.  Is this something peculiar to Calif.?
>Or is it something new AMTRAK is starting?  or is it something AMTRAK
>has been doing for years?  Seems like I also saw something in the paper
>the other day about AMTRAK buses.

That was an Amtrak Thruway bus.  They provide connections to and from
the San Joaquin and Capitol trains.
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railroad Sued by Trespasser's Family
Date: 11 Dec 92 09:16:28 EST
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

>> comes along.  He ended up laying down on the ground between the
>> tracks (not between the rails) and the trains passed over him.
>> I'll bet watching trains from *that* vantage point would be
>> a totally different sensation.
> 
> 
> I mentioned this last month....as a yardman, it does happen.  You may be
> pulling a cut of cars out, while on the next track another yard goat is
> shoving cars in.  In this case you just stop your movement and wait for them
> to finish, and if you still are dizzy, you lay down, as you mentioned, in the
> "Devil's Strip" on your stomach so you do not fall into the passing
> equipment.

When I worked for SP one of the rules covered this (they had rules for
everything, and more besides).  If you're in between two tracks with cars
moving on each track you're supposed to kneel down on one knee and stay
put.  It *does* become rather disorienting, and you start to lose your
sense of balance.

-- Bruce Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: Up and down trains (was CityRail (Sydney))
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:36:11 GMT

In article <6949@otc.otca.oz> wayner@otc.otca.oz.au (Wayne Robinson) writes:

>I'd estimate about two hundred commute from the area between Mt Victoria
>and Lithgow each day. Many only travel to Penrith or Parramatta, but quite
>a few make the full journey. Most catch the 4:42 or 5:20am down trains arriving 
[and later]

>or 5:16 up services, which arrive in Lithgow at 7:12 and 7:52pm which makes it
>a bloody long day.

Careful with your ups and downs! A train going physically up the mountains is
technically a down train, while a train coming down the mountains is an up
train.

This is because Australia (with the exception of Queensland) has generally 
followed British practice, i.e. that trains TO the main centre are "up" trains
and those FROM the main centre are "down".

This goes with other traditions, e.g. down trains (and most signals for down
trains) have odd numbers, up trains have even numbers.

In Queensland, however, the topographic sense of "up" is maintained for trains
on the Toowoomba range, and hence for other trains west (and south) of Brisbane.
This means that on one side of Brisbane, the up trains travel away from the city
whilst on the other side the up trains travel to the city. Queenslanders seem
to find this quite natural; other Australians tend to have difficulty with it.

At least the American practice of using west/east or north/south largely
solves the problem, but even there, there seem to be cases which are rather
perverse (i.e. nominally eastbound trains travelling geographically west).

What terminology applies in Europe?

Eddie Oliver
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dickson@stolaf.edu (Jim Dickson) (Jim Dickson)
Subject: Re: New Superliner Question
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: St. Olaf College, Northfield, MN
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:45:32 GMT

In article <carl_henderson-161292090336@ceh.geo.lsa.umich.edu>,
carl_henderson@um.cc.umich.edu (Carl Henderson) wrote:
> 
> In article <22866@drutx.ATT.COM>, sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh)
> wrote:
> > 
> > In article <15DEC92.10597228.0220@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
> > > According to the Sept. 1991 Passenger Train Journal, the order is
> > > for 140 cars: 6 deluxe sleepers, 55 standard sleepers, 20 diners,
> > > 15 lounges, 12 crew dorms, and 32 coaches.  There's an option for
> > > an additional 39 cars.
> > > 
> > > Tom Box
> > 
> > What is the difference between a deluxe sleeper and a standard
> > sleeper? Way back in 1983 my wife and I rode the CZ/Desert Wind
> > from Denver to L.A. we had the cheapest room. I thought that there
> > was only one type of sleeper car.
> > 
> > Scott Farleigh
> 
> As I understand it, the deluxe sleepers will contain only deluxe bedrooms
> (not the usual mix of economy, deluxe, family and special).  The are slated
> for use on the Lorton-Sanford Auto-Train.
> 
> Carl


Has Amtrak made any decisions re the extra 39 Superliner cars?

Happy Holidays!
From: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se (Dave Breeding, xt-dGR,)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railroads named "Pacific"?
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:46:22 GMT
Reply-To: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.


In article 17276@bony1.bony.com, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1992Dec7.201449.15632@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>>
>>	Here in North America (USA+Canada), there are/were several
>>railroads with "Pacific" in their names:
>>
>>	Union Pacific
>>	Central Pacific
>>	Southern Pacific
>>	Northern Pacific
>>	Northwestern Pacific
>>	Missouri Pacific
>>	Canadian Pacific
>>
> 
>Add 
>
>Western Pacific
>Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific
>
>to the list.
>
>
>Wasn't the original name of the Milwaukee Road
>
>Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific?


Also: Roscoe, Snyder, and Pacific (west Texas shortline)
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:45:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>From article <1gh3o1INNog1@hp-col.col.hp.com>,
>by tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke):
>> 
>> Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
>> very cold weather?
>
>Certainly!  In and around Chicago, during a cold snowstorm, the flames
>around the switches in major rail yards are quite a sight.  The old
>technology for switch heaters involves kerosene burners snuggled up
>against the rail, typically built of sheet metal.  LP gas seems to have
>displaced this in newer installations, but those aren't as scenic looking.
>

In the Twin Cities area, I have seen three of four types of switch heaters.

First, is simply an electric heating element snuggled up to the rail 
at the critcal area(s).

Second, compressed air is simply blown at the critical areas periodically.

Third, heated air is continuously blown at the proper area of the track.

Fourth, ( this on was out of service ) the aforementioned propane burners.

-- Dan Meyer

P.S. The first three are still in service - the fourth was in a yard 
     that was torn up in the last couple of years.

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 15 Dec 92 04:41:24 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Steve Hooper writes:
>
> [stuff about the Spiral Tunnels]


One thing I forgot...these tunnels were modelled by the engineers after a
specific tunnel or tunnels in, I believe,  Switzerland.
--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:55:17 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Incorporated May 5,1963 at the Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway Co. 

Became Chicago Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway  Feb. 11, 1874

Became the Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul and Pacific Railway Nov. 22, 1926

(Rails to the Northstar, Prosser)


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  N0NMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Up and down trains (was CityRail (Sydney))
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:45:41 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In Boston, both subway and commuter rail trains are
usually called "Inbound" (meaning towards downtown)
or "Outbound" (meaning away from downtown).

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se (Dave Breeding, xt-dGR,)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: model railroaders
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:54:28 GMT
Reply-To: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 8864@execnet, chris.welber@execnet.com (chris welber) writes:
>Is there a usenet area for model railroaders?
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>Chris
>---
> ~ DeLuxe} 1.25a #9364 ~ 
>--
>Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
>International ILink Host


Try rec.models.railroad.