HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wayne@acus1.cc.uky.edu (wayne beech)
Subject: UUCP and SLIP question
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:18:37 GMT

Hello,

I have a couple of problems that have come up since I have started running
SLIP at home.  I am connecting from my home machine (NeXTstation Color
running 3.0) to a SLIP capable terminal server using TransSys Dial-Up IP
Software - version 920904 on my NeXT.  Things like telnet, rlogin, finger,
talk, etc. work just fine.  First problem, when I log into another NeXT
and try to -NXHost to my home machine I see the modem lights flash a few
times and then get the message:

DPS client library error: Could not form connection, host home

for no apparent reason ( i have public windower server set).  Second
problem, I had a uucp link set up that worked just fine via a modem.  
Having SLIP, I decided to switch the uucp link to TCP.  When I issue the
command uucico -r1 -x9 -sacus1 I get the messages:

finds (acus1) called
getto: call no. acus1.cc.uky.edu for sys acus1
Using TCP to call
bsdtcpopn host acus1.cc.uky.edu, port 540
TCP CLOSE called
closed fd 5
tcpopen failed: errno 61
root acus1 (12/30-23:05-287) FAILED (Connection refused)
root acus1 (12/30-23:05-287) FAILED (call to acus1 )

Noticing errno 61 I tried to telnet straight to port 540 and sure enough
my connection was refused...I checked and I can telnet to port 540 on
most other Unix machines but anytime I go to a NeXT the connection is 
refused.

Any information on how to "fix" these two problems would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thanks,
wayne beech
University of Kentucky
--
============================================================================
Wayne E. Beech
Senior Scientific Programmer/Analyst
University of Kentucky Computing Center
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.software
From: gjditchf@plg.uwaterloo.ca (Glen Ditchfield)
Subject: Emacs 3.0 and stand-alone systems
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:21:16 GMT


I am using Emacs 3.0, the emacs front end, on a stand-alone NeXTstation
named "angus" running NeXTSTEP 3.0.
   When I started Emacs the first time, it produced the message ``Unknown
host "angus"''.  That seems to come from the call to open-network-stream in
the lisp code.  I patched that problem by changing the open-network-stream
call to use the host name "localhost".  Now Emacs produces the message
``The event handler has exited abnormally with code 256^J'' (sic) when it
starts up.  But Emacs does handle mouse and character events properly as
far as I can see.
   Is there some graceful fix for either of these problems?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: gordie@cyclesoft.com (Gordie Freedman)
Subject: Re: running X remote
Reply-To: gordie@cyclesoft.com
Organization: Dolphin Software
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:40:11 GMT

In article <STATMAN.92Dec31115709@mullet.stat.ufl.edu> statman@stat.ufl.edu  
(Chuck Kincaid) writes:
> 	So I say  
> 		setenv DISPLAY 128.227.8.68:0 
> which is the IP number of my station.  However, it tells me that the
> client does not have authorization to connect to server.  Can anyone
> tell me what I am missing?  How do i provide authorization?  Better yet,
> where can i look this up in the manuals?  
> 	Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> charles d. kincaid

From the station you need to tell the X server to allow other X clients to  
connect. From a shell on the station type:

% xhost +

This allows all of the other machines on the LAN to connect. If you want to  
restrict it, type

% xhost + 128.227.8.99

(I made up this number obviously)

or 

% xhost + sun_host_name

read the man page on xhost for more info, you can query xhost and also set  
multiple client access. This is probably in the X windows FAQ on one of the X  
windows news groups too.
-- 
--- Gordie Freedman gordie@cyclesoft.com  NeXTMail Yes! ---

>>> For optimum sound, listen to the music not the stereo.
From: brueck@inm.uni-sb.de (Stefan Brueck)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: help! colorstation doesn't power up
Date: 25 Dec 92 14:14:51
Organization: Institute for New Materials (INM), Saarbr"ucken, Germany.
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: inmsol.inm.uni-sb.de

hi

i have a big problem starting a nextstation color. after power off with the
keyboard the station doesn't start anymore when pressing the 'power' key on
the keyboard. neither the fan nor the internal harddisk where running! yes
the power cord is connected.

thanks for your answer (email preferred)
stefan

--

##############################################################################
Institut fuer Neue Materialien (INM) #  
Universitaet des Saarlandes, Geb. 43 # Phone: +49 681 302 5086
Stefan Brueck                        # E-Mail (Internet): brueck@inm.uni-sb.de
W-6600 Saarbruecken (Germany)        #
##############################################################################
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: BrianW@SoundS.WA.com (Brian Willoughby)
Subject: Re: uucp ( Help! Help Lost in UUCP land)
Reply-To: BrianW@SoundS.WA.com
Organization: SoundSoftware, Bellevue, WA, USA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:57:26 GMT

Stephen Eng writes
| ...  The mail gets queued up because the "uux" command is  
| used with a -r option.  My understanding (limited), when uucico runs it  
| will look in the spool directory and initiate the transfers.  (right or  
| wrong).  Well this never happens.  ...

You have two choices (to my knowledge).  You can modify sendmail.cf to initiate  
transfers at the moment you send each mail message as documented in "Network  
and System Administration" -OR- you can read the man page on cron and add an  
entry to /etc/crontab.local to run uucico at some interval (also see "NaSA").
-- 
Brian Willoughby	Software Design Engineer, BSEE NCSU
BrianW@SoundS.WA.com	Sound Consulting and Signal Processing Software
NeXTmail welcome	- NO EMAIL SOLICITATION without prior permission
From: zeke@znext (james dehnert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Need help on discovering cause of kernel crashes.
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:49:35 GMT
Reply-To: zeke@znext.cts.com
Organization: pnet


  My ususally robust 040' 3.0 system seems to be crashing at will latley.  I  
keep getting "mach: trap:" and "mach: panic: (Cpu 0) illegal instruction"  
errors in /usr/adm/messages, but I dont know how to discover what is causing  
these errors.  I have been using Mamakos SLIP lately, but I'm sure I would have  
seen alot of trafic on the subject if that was causing system crashes.
  Can anyone tell me how to trace these problems, or which FM to R?

  Thanks,
	Zeke
-- 
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
=+   +=   Eschew Obfuscation           Next Mail Welcome  =+   +=
+=   =+   James "Zeke" Dehnert        zeke@znext.cts.com  +=   =+
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
From: dan@quiensabe.az.stratus.com (Dan Danz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Re: question about ntp
Date: 3 Jan 1993 14:41:29 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: dan@az.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: quiensabe.az.stratus.com

Bob Sutterfield writes
> In article <1hr64iINNmq7@transfer.stratus.com> dan@quiensabe.az.stratus.com  
(Dan Danz) writes:
>    ...you can't just run the ntp daemon on your local machine because
>    it will forever be bringing up the dialup SLIP line.  So you have
>    to put up with some inaccuracy.
> 
> If your SLIP (or PPP) software offers a packet filtering capability,
> this isn't a problem.  For example, my home workstation will pass NTP
> packets on the wire when the link is already up for some other
> purpose, but an NTP packet isn't interesting enough to cause the link
> to be brought up, nor does an NTP packet count against the idle timer.
> So the NTP daemon gets to look at its peers only when I'm already
> using the line for something else that matters more to me than
> timekeeping.

Does anybody know how to do this with Louie Mamakos' DialUpIP SLIP package?
I know that it can prevent dialup for protocols at the level of TCP, UDP, etc.,
but don't know how to specify not doing it for just NTP packets.

--
L. W. "Dan" Danz         (WA5SKM) VOS Mail:  Dan_Danz@vos.stratus.com
Sr Consulting Software SE         NeXT Mail: dan@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center        Voice Mail/Pager: (602) 852-3107
Telecommunications Division       Customer Service: (800) 828-8513
Stratus Computer, Inc. 4455 E. Camelback #115-A, Phoenix AZ 85018
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: tholland@pars.skidmore.edu (Anthony Holland)
Subject: How to rdump from remote NeXT to my WangDat backup tape ?
Keywords: rdump
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:04:03 GMT

I'm backing up my hard disks for the holidays (what better way to  
celebrate ?) and want to dump the hard disk contents from a NeXt machine  
down the hallway.  rdump says it can't open the device up.  Can anyone  
advise me on how to get rdump to work over the net ?  Thanks

Anthony Holland
Skidmore College
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: jjfeiler@relief.com (John Jay Feiler)
Subject: Trouble with Fujitsu  M2652 drive
Reply-To: jjfeiler@relief.com
Organization: relief consulting
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:35:34 GMT

I just installed a new Fujitsu M2652 drive on our server, and I'm having some  
problems with it.  I formatted fine, and the mkfs went ok.  Doing small,  
simple things on the drive is fine, such as creating a single directory, or  
copying a single small file onto the disk.  However, whenever I try to do  
something bigger, such as copying over the entire /usr/local tree, the whole  
machine hangs.  I've tried fiddling aroung with some of the jumpers, but to  
no avail.  Occasionally I've seen errors on the console, but that was when I  
was monkeying with the jumpers.  Has anyone else attached one of these to a  
NeXT, and if so, what jumper settings did you use?

I'm not sure if it's a bad drive, or if I just have something set up wrong.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: cleeland@cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland)
Subject: Hooking up a cartridge drive
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-12738]: sinbad
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:46:12 GMT

Would anyone in NetLand have any idea on how to go about
attaching (and subsequently using) an IBM SCSI QIC drive
to a NextStation Color running 3.0?  It seems that I may
have found a "free" surplus unit, and a cart holds LOTS
more than even a 2.88 floppy...

Any help?

Send e-mail, if possible...
-cj
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Cleeland			"If your heart ain't in it,
cleeland@cs.tulane.edu		 then get your other part out."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: francisr@stupid.ucs.indiana.edu (Rob Francis)
Subject: Upgrade_3.0.app/Default.upgrade/PostProcess has a problem
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:14:26 GMT


There's this little snippit in the script that runs after the upgrade
to update the /users directory in Netinfo:

    echo -n "    Updating user accounts..."
    set users = `niutil -t -list localhost/${usetag} /users|awk '{print $2}'`
    foreach user ($users)
        niutil -t -list localhost/${usetag} /users/${user}/info >& /dev/null
        if ($status != 0) then
            niutil -t -create localhost/${usetag} /users/${user}/info
            niutil -t -createprop localhost/${usetag} /users/${user}/info _writers ${user}
        endif
    end
    echo "$#users accounts"

Basically, it just adds the info property to each user's directory.
But there's a problem.  My Upgrade Log showed the following:

Updating user accounts...foreach: Too many arguments.

I have 1167 accounts.  I haven't figured out what the cut off is, but
I did manage to make it work by commenting that out of the script and
running something that did the same thing using /bin/sh and a while
loop.  Then commenting it out of the script and rerunning the script
by hand.

So I'm not sure where the cut off is, but thought others might want to
know about this little treat.

-rob
---
Rob Francis   Unix Systems Specialist, Indiana University
francisr@indiana.edu (812)855-0327
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: mross@iat.holonet.net (Michael Ross)
Subject: rc.local modification?
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 09:53:28 GMT

I'm really confused.
 
I'm trying to get a program to execute when I turn the NeXT on. This
program, 'start', spawns a daemon 'serverd' and must be run by the
user 'server'. I have added a line to /etc/rc.local so that it looks
like this:
 
#####################################
# Read in configuration information
. /etc/hostconfig
 
(echo -n 'local daemons:')
>/dev/console
#
# Run your own commands here
#
su server -c '/usr/server/start -cr >/dev/console' && (echo -n '
listserv') >/dev/console
#
#
(echo '.')
>/dev/console
####################################
 
During the boot process, the console echoes 'local daemons:', the
output of the start program,  and the final '.' properly. However '
listserv' never appears, meaning the previous su... was unsuccessful.
And, indeed, the daemon spawned by 'start' is no longer is the list
of processes running (seen with 'ps -ax') when I first login.
 
The frustrating thing is that the su.... line works fine when
executed from a Terminal shell as root!
 
 
Can anyone tell me why this process is dying at startup and what can
I do to the rc.local file to make it stay? It looks like  either when
the 'su' subshell exits, it kills all processes it has spawned, or su
is returning an exit error code, but not 'saying' anything to the
console....
 
Thanks for any suggestions and.... MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
 
Michael
 
---
Michael Ross
Antigone Press, San Francisco, California
e-mail: mross@antigone.com
FAX: 1-415-431-3650
---

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: bill@leeweyr.sccsi.com (Bill Lee)
Subject: Help fix a screw-up
Organization: Lee Aerie
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:00:02 GMT


I need some help fixing something I screwed up a while back.

While trying to get everything set up for a news feed, I inadvertently
changed the Netinfo database to expect a parent for my machine. My
system is a stand-alone color slab.

The only symptom which is obvious is a message during the boot process
which halts the boot until responded to:

	The following network error has occurred:

	Cannot find parent Netinfo server, still looking...
	Press 'c' to continue boot without parent server

	See your system administrator if you need help.

I have read through the sysadmin manual (again) and found where this
message was discussed. Essentially it says that the parent server is having
problems and wait for it to get fixed. Nowhere have I found a discussion
telling me how to say "I don't need no steenking server!"

I did read the part about how to start all over from scratch re-building
the Netinfo database. Is that the solution? The only solution?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Bill Lee
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: waldvoge@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Marcel Waldvogel)
Subject: Re: help with setting up fax and DNS
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:51:03 GMT

In article <lk9n2sINNqb5@news.bbn.com> aking@BBN.COM (Allen King) writes:
>    1. How do you set up /dev/cua as a fax modem that can be chosen by, for
>instance FaxReader.app? I was hoping to be able to do that manually without
>buying NXFax, but perhaps that is the answer.

Fax modems are installed with the PrintManager application. But the
ZyXEL is not supported by the standard NeXT distribution and NXFax
allows using the modem as a data and fax modem simultaneously.

>    2. Other times I run SLIP on the line. Currently the only host
>that is known (as a telnet/ftp host) is my SLIP0REMOTE address. How
>does one go about configuring a system to route everything that isn't
>local out SLIP0?

You set SLIP0DEFAULT to YES (or something like that. Then everything
which is not local to your system is routed over your SLIP. The other
end must then propagate this routing information (how to do this
depends on the other side).

>I'd also like to setup to use the DNS? It would sure
>be nice if I could connect to the appropriate IP nameing servers and
>have direct internet access from home.

You create '/etc/resolv.conf' with the following contents:

domain		bbn.com
nameserver	128.89.2.34
nameserver	128.89.1.199

This tells the resolver that you are in domain bbn.com (then you can
use the short host names) and that the primary name server is
spooler1.bbn.com and the secondary (backup) is spooler2.bbn.com.

-Marcel
From: vqueved@nextlab.calstatela.edu (Operator)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: QuickTime for NeXT
Keywords: QuickTime NeXT
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:19:03 GMT
Reply-To: vqueved@nextlab.calstatela.edu

I see that there is a PhotoCD driver for the NeXT.

Is there a QuickTIME (Apple) reading application for the NeXT?

-Victor Quevedo
vqueved@nextlab.calstatela.edu
From: louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Re: UUCP and SLIP question
Date: 2 Jan 1993 01:57:02 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: sayshell.umd.edu

In article <1992Dec31.41838.27476@ms.uky.edu> wayne@acus1.cc.uky.edu (wayne beech) writes:


>I have a couple of problems that have come up since I have started running
>SLIP at home.  I am connecting from my home machine (NeXTstation Color
>running 3.0) to a SLIP capable terminal server using TransSys Dial-Up IP
>Software - version 920904 on my NeXT.  Things like telnet, rlogin, finger,
>talk, etc. work just fine.  First problem, when I log into another NeXT
>and try to -NXHost to my home machine I see the modem lights flash a few
>times and then get the message:
>
>DPS client library error: Could not form connection, host home
>
>for no apparent reason ( i have public windower server set). 

You'll find that even if you do get this problem solved, its much too
painful to run an application -NXHost'ed across a SLIP connection.  This has
been my experience.

> Second
>problem, I had a uucp link set up that worked just fine via a modem.  
>Having SLIP, I decided to switch the uucp link to TCP.  When I issue the
>command uucico -r1 -x9 -sacus1 I get the messages:
>
>finds (acus1) called
>getto: call no. acus1.cc.uky.edu for sys acus1
>Using TCP to call
>bsdtcpopn host acus1.cc.uky.edu, port 540
>TCP CLOSE called
>closed fd 5
>tcpopen failed: errno 61
>root acus1 (12/30-23:05-287) FAILED (Connection refused)
>root acus1 (12/30-23:05-287) FAILED (call to acus1 )
>
>Noticing errno 61 I tried to telnet straight to port 540 and sure enough
>my connection was refused...I checked and I can telnet to port 540 on
>most other Unix machines but anytime I go to a NeXT the connection is 
>refused.

Look in /etc/inetd.conf, and uncomment the line:

#uucp   stream  tcp     nowait  root    /usr/etc/uucpd          uucpd

and either restart or send a HUP signal to the /etc/inetd process.

louie

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: vhs@rhein-main.de (Volker Herminghaus-Shirai)
Subject: Re: Exec. files not being fd
Reply-To: vhs@rhein-main.de
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 19:36:57 GMT

In article <72576@cup.portal.com> John-Z@cup.portal.com (John Michael  
Zollinger) writes:
> Help...For some reason my shell can't find executable files.  If I
> compile a little C program and then rehash (I am doing that), it still
> says that it can't find the file, even though 'ls' shows that it is
> there.  In addition, adding entries to my PATH setup in the shell startup  
> script doesn't seem to have any effect, but if I put an executable file
> into the standard path, like '~/Unix/bin/' it finds it ok.
> 
> As you can see, I am at a loss as to what is wrong so any help would be
> greatly appreciated.  Thanks.       

First find out definitely what shell you are using. Then, make sure
you use the right startup script, i.e. .profile for sh, .cshrc
for csh, etc.
Do a `which rehash` to find out if some buzzhead wrote a no-op,
named it rehash, and put it into the path. Output should be:
	no rehash in <your_path>

I can't think of another reason right now except if your filesystem
or shell is seriously broken. If the above doesn't help try using sh
and csh alternatively and check if it happens on both. Also try
invoking the executable directly, i.e. ./myprog, or ./bin/myprog.

--
Volker Herminghaus-Shirai (vhs@qb.rhein-main.de)

Looks good on the outside, but -
	intel inside
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (System Administrator)
Subject: Re: Emptying recycler on logout
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:44:56 GMT

: In article <1992Dec4.201219.4040@midway.uchicago.edu>  
: janna@reliant.bsd.uchicago.edu (& Ore Nugent) writes:
: > 
: > Our users can't seem to get the hang of emptying the recycler.  I beg for  
: > them to delete files to relieve the disk space crunch on our Sun server,  
: > and while they happily drop old files into the recycler, I can't quite  
: > train them to emptying it.  So I'd like to automagically purge the  
: > recycler when the user logs out of their NeXT session, but I don't know  
: > how to proceed.  Any ideas?
: 

We do this by adding the following lines to /usr/adm/daily on our main
file server
# Empty the trash 
 rm -rf /u/arafel/*/.NeXT/.NextTrash/*
 rm -rf /u/fenris/*/.NeXT/.NextTrash/*
 rm -rf /u/scratch/.NextTrash/*/*
 ...

The first two are home directory servers, the last is a general 
purpose disk.

--
=> Sherwood Botsford                   sherwood@space.ualberta.ca <= 
=> University of Alberta         Lab Manager, Space Physics Group <=         
=> tel:403 492-3713                             fax: 403 492-4256 <=
From: bhughes@informix.com (Blake Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: using Telebit T3000 as a fax modem, how?
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:37:57 GMT
Reply-To: bhughes@informix.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Hello,

I just received a new T3000.  I was pleasantly surprised that it has fax  
capabilities also.  Has anyone gotten this to work with a NeXT.  I'm running  
NeXTStep 2.1 on an old 68040 cube.  I selected 'Class2 Fax Modem' from  
PrintManager.  I get a dialog box saying "Fax Software Failed.  Restart your  
computer & try again."

I think I need a fax driver for this particular modem.

Thanks,
Blake
--
``'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
` Blake Hughes                                     (415) 737-3600 '
` bhughes@informix.com           1000 Marina Boulevard, Suite 650 '
` Informix Software                           Brisbane, CA  94005 '
``'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: rob@hobbes.cuc.ab.CA (Rob Parkhill)
Subject: Apple Talk Intaller
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:48:40 GMT

Hi All:
	Yesterday I tried to install the NeXT_AppleTalk.pkg . I launched 

Installer, opened up the package, and tried to install it. But after checking
all of the files, Installer reported that all of the files in  
NextLibrary/Documentation were on a read-only file system. This makes sense 

since I linked the Documentation folders from my hard drive to the CD to
save a bunch of space. The question is, why does the  NeXT_AppleTalk.pkg need 

to modify these files? Is there some way around it without putting all of the
Documentation on my Hard Disk? I tried un-taring the .tar.Z file in the .pkg 

folder by hand, but got a "tar: directory checksum error (0 != 2407)" when 

un-taring it :( :(
ANY help would be appreciated, since my comupter will be connected to an 

AppleTalk ethernet network in a matter of weeks.
thanks...
			Rob

---
Rob Parkhill		|| Jack Frost roasting on an
rob@hobbes.cuc.ab.ca	|| open fire, Children nipping
(NeXTmail preferred!)	|| at his nose...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin