From: twarner@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tom Warner)
Subject: Re: LHO MYSTERY ID
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:18:39 GMT

6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.023239.128@u.washington.edu>, twarner@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tom Warner) writes:
>>
>>>But suppose Oswald had called in sick that day?  Suppose Oswald had been
>>>standing in clear sight of a half-dozen fellow employees when the shots rang
>>>out?  Would any rational conspiracy bet the whole store on Oswald *not* having
>>>an airtight alibi?
>>
>>Good point. That's why it would be better to use a patsy that was part of
>>the operation, at least in some small way.
>>

>OK, your position is that Oswald was a "not so innocent" patsy.

I didn't say that.

>>
>>I don't know that there were more than two gunmen firing, but I expect there
>>were more than two gunmen ready to fire. True, it adds to the risk of
>>being seen, but not by much. I think the Grassy Knoll shooter was purely
>>backup, in case the rear shooter didn't get the job done.
>>

>So you *don't* think that shots came from the Grassy Knoll?  You think all your
>fellow conspiratorialists who believe that are wrong?
>Or do you believe that the Grassy Knoll gunman knew that the rear shooter
>hadn't done the job, and then opened fire?

The latter.

>Having gunmen who have to decide, within the framework of a few seconds,
>whether to open fire is most implausible.  It's a terribly tough call amid
>noise and confusion,

I believe the gunmen were radio signalled.

> and even gunmen who haven't opened fire run the risk of
>being discovered.

Yes.

> Especially if they are stationed on the Grassy Knoll!

No. It's one of the better places to hide that affords one of the best shots
at the motorcade.

>>
>>>After all, his sniper's perch in the School Book Depository is
>>>by far the best shooting position in Dealy Plaza, if you're shooting at
>>>someone driving Kennedy's route.
>>
>>Wrong. It's a very bad position, unless you mean for shooting as the car
>>approaches on Houston, which didn't happen. There are many better places
>>for shooting at a car on Elm, such as Bruce's favorite, the Dal-Tex building,
>>and the fence along the grassy knoll.
>>

>You're simply dead wrong on this.  A shot against a target moving left to right
>is quite difficult.  A shot against a target moving directly away from you is
>pretty easy.

Uh, get a map of Dealy plaza. The motorcade was not moving directly away
from the "assassin's lair," but at an angle left to right and upwards, where
some fraction of the motion of the vehicle, relating to that (constantly
changing) angle, is seen as left to right motion and another (constantly
changing) fraction is seen as upward motion. Since Elm curves, there
really isn't any single location with a straight, no side-to-side motion
shot for the duration of the period when the shots were fired, but the Dal-Tex
building comes closest. The grassy knoll is a better shot simply because it
is up close. Shooting at objects moving from side to side isn't any more
difficult than shooting at objects moving at angles. Especially when they are
barely moving at all, which is what was happening at the time.

>>>I simply can't imagine how any
>>>rational conspiracy would have wanted Oswald in custody.
>>
>>Yes, evidently someone was a bit perturbed about that situation.
>>

>So, are you saying that all the theorists who claim that The Conspiracy sent
>the police to get Oswald are wrong?

No, I'm saying that Jack Ruby was sent to shoot Oswald because someone didn't
want Oswald alive in custody. Either because they didn't want Oswald to talk
or because they didn't want Oswald to go to trial.

Just because someone didn't want Oswald alive in custody doesn't rule out the
possibility that someone in "The Conspiracy" put the police onto Oswald in the
first place. Unless you believe the conspirators were all some kind of cyborgs
that all thought perfectly logically and alike. Which perhaps is what you
intend to signify with your use of capitals; I don't know.

On the other hand, I think it's pretty fair to say that some conspiracy
theorists, including Oliver Stone, have made Oswald's arrest at the Texas
Theater seem more suspicious than it really was. The owner of a shop across
the street had heard of the murder in his neghborhood, saw Oswald looking into
his shop, saw him duck out of sight when police drove by, and saw him
sneak into a movie theater without paying. He called police, they brought him
with them into the theater, and he pointed Oswald out. Doesn't seem to me that
there was really anything left for any conspirators to do.

>And if he was a "patsy" wasn't he
>*supposed* to fall into police hands?  What's the purpose of having a "patsy"
>who doesn't fall into police hands?

No, once they found his rifle and traced it to his post office box, they
would have had their suspect. It wasn't necessary that he be picked up for
murder of a police officer, although that certainly did help seal his guilt
in the eyes of the public.

>Actually, probably better to have a patsy who gets shot resisting arrest.

Yes.

>But then why didn't that happen?

Perhaps the conspirators didn't think of it, or didn't have anyone who could
arrange for it. Or perhaps this is what Tippit planned to do, but failed.

>If the fix was really in with the Dallas Police
>why wasn't he shot in that theater?

For conspirators to have friends in the Dallas Police, and Jack Ruby had many,
does not translate into absolute and complete control over every single thing
every single member of the Dallas Police ever does. If there was a Dallas
policeman or two actually directly working for Ruby or someone else in the
conspiracy, they would have been one or two of many at the theater and not
necessarily in a position to just up and shoot Oswald in front of so many
co-workers. Not that I think any of the policemen at the theater were
taking directions from a conspirator, I don't.

>For that matter, why didn't Tippet shot him?

Maybe he wasn't working for anyone but the Dallas police, and just stopped
Oswald because he jumped when he saw a police car coming. Maybe he meant to
shoot Oswald but didn't realize he had a revolver.

>But if the fix wasn't in, why would The Conspiracy want him in police
>hands, where he might sing like a bird.

Maybe they didn't, but he got himself in police hands anyway. Second
guessing how "The Conspiracy" planned things to happen is pretty
pointless if you don't think things happened as planned.

>>Even if Oswald was working for someone in the conspiracy, I doubt he knew much
>>about the overall operation. If you had been working for a CIA agent, for
>>instance, do you think you could convince anyone of it? 

>Either he knew enough to threaten The Conspiracy, or he didn't.

Right.

>If he did, why did The Conspiracy allow him to fall into police hands?

By mistake, probably. Or possibly one part of the conspiracy didn't mind him
in police hands, but the mafia thought they would be the ones left holding
the cookie jar if Oswald said what little he knew.

>But if he didn't, why have Jack Ruby kill him?  If there is nothing he can
say to implicate The Conspiracy, and if the evidence clearly points to his
guilt, why not just let him play out the role by being convicted and executed?

Because if he had gone to trial, he very likely would not have been convicted.
Perhaps he knew enough to prove his own innocence or at least implicate one
or two other people and start things unraveling. 

>Further, you have Ruby kill him and you've just exchanged one person in custody
>for another. What if Ruby talks?

He's dead. He was a career mafia man, his entire future depended on how
well he kept his mouth shut. If he did that, he stood a good chance of
eventually getting out and getting very well rewarded. If he talked, his only
reward from the legal system would have been a harsher sentence, and he would
be marked for death by the mafia. He would also be exposing to public outrage
his friends and colleagues and the underground network he had spent his entire
adult life helping to build.


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