From: iclone!ctm@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Clifford T. Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: data point:  non-ardi, (non-next) mac emulator
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:53:13 GMT
Organization: ARDI

Dear Folks,

I have more information about Liken and will send it via e-mail to
anyone who asks, or I could post it to the net if there's enough
interest in a Sun product in this newsgroup.  I have reproduced
the three parts that I think the most number of people would be
interested in.  Single '>' denotes from a press release I was sent
by a friend (I believe it was also posted in one of the Sun groups).

> Liken is a product of 
> 	Xcelerated Systems, Inc.
> 	3944 Murphy Canyon Road, Suite C201
> 	San Diego, CA 92123
> 	Voice: (619)576-3080
> 	  FAX: (619)576-2504

...

> 
> Liken provides an emulation of a Motorola 68000 processor, and allows
> the use of the SPARC display, keyboard, mouse, hard disk, floppy disk,
> and CDROM drives.  Liken runs under the Open Windows SunOS windowing
> system and is specifically designed to operate with customer-supplied
> Apple Macintosh System Software v. 6.0.7.
> 

...

> 
> 		    Compatible / Incompatible Applications
> 
> This list represents partial testing on Liken 1.0 , as of publishing
> time.  Compatible applications were loaded after Liken was successfully
> installed using a distribution on a 1.44 MB diskette.
> 
> 
> Compatible 		Incompatible
> 
> Hypercard 2.0           Any app which uses
> Microsoft Word 4.0              V7.0 Installer
> Micorsoft Excel 3.0     SimCity
> MacWrite II             Canvas V3.0
> WordPerfect 2.0         FrameMaker
> MacDraw II              ResEdit2.1
> M.Y.O.B. 2.0
> Aldus PageMaker 4.01
> Quicken 1.5
> Cosmic Osmo
> Where in the World is
>    Carmen San Diego V1.3
> MacPaint 2.0
> FileMakerPro 1.0V2
> Microsoft Works 2.00e
> Microsoft Powerpoint 2.01
> Reader Rabbit 2.2
> Math Rabbit 1.0
> Crystal Quest V2.20

...

>>From: dwatola@praha.jpl.nasa.gov (David A. Watola)
>>
>>this is just another data point for people interested in mac emulators.
>>xcelerated systems, inc. of san diego have a software emulator for the mac
>>that runs on the sparcstation.  it is also priced at $700 but is already
>>complete!!! 
>>
>>i saw a demo yesterday (you can get a  time-limited demo from the company;
>>i have  no idea what the address and phone number is) and it runs
>>system 6.0.7 (not system 7 yet), but not multifinder.  other than that, it is
>>a real mac!!!
>>
>>perhaps someone can convince the company to port this puppy to the next? it
>>would be nice to have a little competition/incentive for ardi to lower
>>their price.
>>
>>on a related note, i suspect that xcelerated systems will get jumped on by
>>apple before ardi does when it comes to 'look-n-feel' lawsuits.  their >>product's
>>future probably will help determine executor's.

I would like to point out a few things:

David Watola's "also priced at $700 but is already complete" suggests
that ARDI is selling an incomplete version of Executor for $700.
This is not the case.  Our pricing is based on how many applications
out of a specific set of applications you wish to run on how many
machines.  I usually refer to the set of applications that add to
the cost as "Big Ticket" apps.  They are (in no particular order):
	
	Microsoft Word
	Microsoft Excel
	Microsoft Works
	Microsoft PowerPoint
	Microsoft Schedule
	Claris MacProject
	Claris MacDraw II
	Claris MacPaint II
	Claris MacDraw Pro
	Claris MacWrite II
	Claris Filemaker Pro
	Claris CAD
	Claris Resolve
	Claris Works
	Hypercard
	DeltaGraph
	QuarkXPress
	FoxBase+
	PageMaker
	Nisus
	More
	GreatWorks
	KaleidaGraph
	Fontographer
	Canvas 3.0
	CricketGraph
	AutoCad

To figure out how much a given configuration of Executor costs,
you multiply the number of the above listed applications by the
number of machines on which you wish to run Executor and that gives
you the number of units that you're purchasing.  Multiply the cost
per unit times the number of units and you have the price.  Cost
per unit depends on number of units:

	1	$80
	2-9	$70
	10-59	$60
	>= 60	$50
	
===>Right now we're shipping Executor-MSW V1.1.1, which only supports
Microsoft Word 4.  We're beta testing support for Excel, and hope
to be able to support all the listed apps by the end of the year.<===
As we support more on our list, if the number of apps that you want
to run brings the total up beyond $700, then we cap the price at
$700.  No applications other than the ones on the "big ticket" list
are locked out.  Currently, with V1.1.1 released, most other large
applications don't work, but that is changing.  I think our pricing
structure is eminently superior to "everyone pays $700."  I haven't
dwelled too much on our price in the net because I didn't want to
anger the people that get angered over such things, but we're using
a pricing structure that we think is beneficial to everyone, students
and non-students.  The only way you'll have to pay $700 is if you
already have a significant investment in software that is on the
"big ticket" list and you want to be able to run it all.

Other than pricing, the big difference between Liken and Executor
is that Liken requires you to somehow obtain a System 6.0.7 file.
Please note, they do not include this with their product.  The
licensing agreement for System 6.0.7 says that you can't run it on
a non-Mac.  However, companies frequently put stuff in their
licensing agreements that won't hold up in court.  The bottom line
is that in order to use their software you have to violate the
wording of that license agreement, something that Excelerated
themselves aren't willing to do, otherwise they'd obtain copies of
System 6.0.7 and ship them with their product.

Executor doesn't require the Apple ROMs, or an Apple System File.
We have rewritten the code within the ROMs and the System File from
scratch.  That is why we are currently behind in the compatibility
game.  I personally hope that Excelerated is allowed to do what
they're doing.  I think that the limitation of Apple software to
Apple hardware smacks of stuff that IBM used to do until Amdahl
took them to court over matters antitrust.  If Excelerated's
methodology holds up, then ARDI will probably add code to give you
the option to use code out of an Apple System File (We'd make it
an option instead of totally switching over, because it's a liability
when you're running on a non-68k machine, like the SPARC, because
the code contained in the System File is all 68k based).

>>perhaps someone can convince the company to port this puppy to the next? it
>>would be nice to have a little competition/incentive for ardi to lower
>>their price.

I suspect that this statement was made because our pricing policy
wasn't clear.  I hope it is now.  I hope people aren't going to
ask for a discount beyond the ($50 - $80) present price.  The V1.2
manuals alone alone are going to cost us about $15 a piece.  I
maintain that what we're proposing is a very good bargain for
everyone and I'm glad you've tolerated the few dollar signs that
were necessary for this post.

The bottom line is a function of cost, compatibility and performance.
Currently we're the leader on the NeXT, because we're the only
player on the NeXT.  However, we'll be taking the battle (pardon
the metaphor, I actually feel a bit of comradery with all the
people/companies taking on Apple's perceived legal stance) onto
their turf (SPARC) later this year, where we will also do battle
with Quorum's Mac compatibility software.  I don't see anyone
touching us on price; with our dynamic recompilation I suspect
we'll win on performance and our compatibility is getting better
every day (every minute I'm not writing mail or news).

	--Cliff[ord T.] Matthews	iclone!ctm@unmvax.cs.unm.edu
	Abacus R&D, Inc.		(505) 766-9115
From: edwardm@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Edward McClanahan)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:41:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Next's Solution To Marketing; News Item!
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino