From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: REPOST: Dirt Armor summary
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:12:30 GMT


======================================================================
Ok, here's the summary of responses to my query about dirt riding body
armor. I'll let everyone speak for themselves, but the breakdown was:

Thor Mach V	7
Thor Shock	1
FOX RoostII	1
Axo		1
Bowman Kincaid	1
HRP Flak Jak	1

It surprised me that there were so many that recommended the same piece of
gear. The way opinions vary so much on nearly everything, it speaks well
for the Mach V. What follows has been edited some, so blame any errors on
me.


Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Dirt body armor
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 15:21:47 GMT

In a transparent attempt to boost the level of dirt posts, he asks:

Any suggestions/comments on body armor for dirt riding? For a trail
riding dirt donk like me, is it really valuable for protection, or just
posing? The only time in the past 10 years or so that I wish I'd had
some protection was when I left some elbow skin on the Slickrock trail.
(Don't let the name fool you, that stuff's as slick as 80 grit sandpaper!)

Assuming that body armor is a good idea, what's the best stuff out
there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?
Or do you just pick what looks neat/cool/mostneon? :-)

Good ventilation would be high on my list for comfortable desert riding.
Any reason (besides $$) to get a front-only protector instead of full
coverage?
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland        580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108
blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  uunet!javelin.sim.es.com!blgardne  BIX: blaine_g
DoD #46               My other motorcycle is a Quadracer.              FJ1200
 "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."  Mark Knopfler



From: lastovica@ducati.enet.dec.com (Norm Lastovica)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Date: 14 Oct 91 16:33:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp, Colorado Springs

	I've got the thor 'shock' chest protector.  It isn't the 
lightest, but it was reasonably inexpensive (~$100) and fits me
well.  I wanted back protection (since I'm interested in saving
my body in case of a big fall and need more than just roost protection).
it is reasonably well vented I guess, though that wasn't high on
my list.  it fits under my hallman jacket (though that's more a
jacket function than a chest protector function).  the plastic
shoulder parts are held off of the shoulder with a bit of web
stuff on the shoulder.  it seems to be completely indestructable
(and I've tested it a couple times).  I highly recommend it.
--
the opinions expressed here are my own and hardly ever
reflect those of Digital Equipment Corporation.



From: baxter@splvx1.csc.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Dirt Wear
Date: 14 Oct 91 18:35:25 GMT
Organization: Semiconduction Process and Design Center, Texas Instruments

Body Armor...
	If I plan on riding hard I would not leave home without it.  And 
exactly what do I use for body armor your asking.  Well thought a long time
about what I wanted my armor to do.  It would definitely have to stop the 
massive bombardment of rocks from my best friends CR500.  It would also have 
to absorb the shock of a crash.  I also wanted it to be fully adjustable, 
look good, and well vented.  I chose the FOX RoostII, because it does all this.
I believe that most all of the body armors are good, but I like that the FOX
shoulders are a mesh between you and the plastic.  There are other models that
have this feature but seem to be more expensive. The Thor model looks as if it
offer excellent protection.  It has side/kidney protection but does not look
like it is vented well.  I use JT elbow guards in rocky areas.  

MX pants...
	I'm riding with some ANSWER (Elite) MX pants.  They are constructed
from Gortex with Kevlar on the inside or the knees.  They come with knee/shin
and hip pads.  I think I paid $130 for them at Two Wheel World.  Mine are
neon pink and blue.  YES I SAID NEON!   

Boots...
	I don't know.  Mine are coming apart now.  What should I buy next?
Alpine Star, Axo, or maybe JT.  Who knows...?
________________________________________________________________________________
DoD #359              CR125            |               Mike Baxter   
AMA member                             |              
TCCRA member                           |      baxter@splvx1.csc.ti.com
Texas Cross Country Racing Association |      baxter@crdecf
50 miles of off-road racing            |   Texas Instruments, Dallas Tx.
_______________________________________|________________________________________



From: sturdevant@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Mike S.)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Date: 14 Oct 91 16:54:03 EST

In article <1991Oct14.152147.23077@javelin.sim.es.com>, blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:
> Any suggestions/comments on body armor for dirt riding? For a trail
> riding dirt donk like me, is it really valuable for protection, or just
> posing?

It's only valuable if you fall.  Otherwise it's just in the way.

> Assuming that body armor is a good idea, what's the best stuff out
> there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?

	I've got Hallman Mach V stuff and it works great with a couple 
of minor mods. The back seems to come down far enough to keep me from 
bunging my back up which other types don't do as well. It's very well 
ventilated. The elbow guards, however fall down a lot since the snaps 
that hold them up seem to pop open on minor bumps and stuff. 
	The mods I made to mine involve the upper arm/shoulder guard 
portion of the protector. They have long loops of elastic which need 
to be threaded throught the plastic after encircling your arm. If you 
just leave them threaded, they are hard to get on and constantly need 
adjusted anyways. I glued and sewed velcro to the straps so that I now 
just encircle the arm and slap the end into place on the mating velcro 
piece. It works great.

> Any reason (besides $$) to get a front-only protector instead of full
> coverage?

	I can't think of a reason unless you ride with guys on big 
bores that like to spew you with rocks. Or you race a big bore in 
rocks. In either case, you're still missing out on the back protection 
which is at least as important as the rib protection.

Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.



From: ciotti@wk42.nas.nasa.gov (Robert B. Ciotti)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Date: 16 Oct 91 17:21:30 GMT
Organization: NASA/Ames Research Center

In article <1991Oct14.152147.23077@javelin.sim.es.com> blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
>In a transparent attempt to boost the level of dirt posts, he asks:
>
>Any suggestions/comments on body armor for dirt riding? For a trail
>riding dirt donk like me, is it really valuable for protection, or just

 I prefer the Mach 5 - forget the manufactures name. 

>posing? The only time in the past 10 years or so that I wish I'd had
>some protection was when I left some elbow skin on the Slickrock trail.

 The Mach 5 elbow protectors are however JUNK. They do not stay
 in place. I haven't really found good elbow protection. I usually
 just wear 2 long sleve moto shirts, which is enough to reduce rash
 but rocks are still a problem.
 
>(Don't let the name fool you, that stuff's as slick as 80 grit sandpaper!)

>Assuming that body armor is a good idea, what's the best stuff out

 Ever ride closely behind a 500? Sometimes it even hurts throuugh the
 body armour.

>there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?
>Or do you just pick what looks neat/cool/mostneon? :-)
 
 look are extra.

>Good ventilation would be high on my list for comfortable desert riding.
>Any reason (besides $$) to get a front-only protector instead of full
>coverage?

 Back coverage is mainly for impacting into the ground or when an
 ocational weenie rears you. Two sides are a good idea.

 Bob



From: ciotti@nas.nasa.gov (Robert B. Ciotti)
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Organization: NASA/Ames Research Center

In article <1991Oct16.225524.7938@javelin.sim.es.com> you write:
>ciotti@wk42.nas.nasa.gov (Robert B. Ciotti) writes:
>>In article <1991Oct14.152147.23077@javelin.sim.es.com> blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
>>>Any suggestions/comments on body armor for dirt riding? For a trail
>>>riding dirt donk like me, is it really valuable for protection, or just
>
>> I prefer the Mach 5 - forget the manufactures name. 
>
>They are from Thor (Torsten Hallman). Thanks for the warning about the
>elbow protectors. Are they the articulated version made from hard
>plastic, or the version made from foam and flexible plastic?

 The hard plastic ones. Have you any good suggestions on elbow protection.

>> Ever ride closely behind a 500? Sometimes it even hurts throuugh the
>> body armour.
>
>On a 250? Not for very long!  :-)

 You have to lap 'em sometime. 



Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: timz@sdd.hp.com (Tim Zantow)
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1991 19:37:31 GMT

I found THOR to have the most comfortable and protective body protection
which proved to be effective on Slickrock for me as I bailed big time on
a verticle rock face and slid 100+ feet to the bottom on my bottom.
Thank god for Full Plastic Jacket.

>Assuming that body armor is a good idea, what's the best stuff out
>there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?
>Or do you just pick what looks neat/cool/mostneon? :-)

Coordination was never very high on my list of priorities whether it be
off road gear or hacking in basic.

>Good ventilation would be high on my list for comfortable desert riding.
>Any reason (besides $$) to get a front-only protector instead of full
>coverage?

The main reason I spent $100 on a Full Plastic Jacket was after planting
the front wheel on a knarly near verticle downhill, falling over the bars
onto a rock and  having the rear of my husky crash on the rock next to
me and realizing that it easily could have been my unprotected spine
under the bike. The protection is worth the extra money.



Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 23:01:43 GMT

timz@sdd.hp.com (Tim Zantow) writes:
>I found THOR to have the most comfortable and protective body protection
>which proved to be effective on Slickrock for me as I bailed big time on
>a verticle rock face and slid 100+ feet to the bottom on my bottom.
>Thank god for Full Plastic Jacket.

Owwwww! It hurts to think about it. There's some places there you'd
never stop sliding. (I can't wait to see someone take a BMW or Harley on
that trail!)

In keeping with the current trend of demanding _specific_ information  :-)
which model Thor do you have, the Mach 5 or the Shock?



Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: timz@sdd.hp.com (Tim Zantow)
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 23:46:16 GMT

Just for the record, I have a THOR Shock jacket which I preferred over
the Mach 5 many because the Shock jacket allowed more clearance for my
big neck and I too found the Mach 5 elbow guards a little bogus.

Is anybody interested in pre-running the Baja 1000? alls you need is a
big gas tank and some balls because we ride kinda fast.

					Ciao, Tim

    91' Honda XR600		|  Let's go riding!
    85' Husky WRX400		|



From: jld@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Deeney)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Date: 15 Oct 91 15:58:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.motorcycles, blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:

> Any suggestions/comments on body armor for dirt riding? For a trail
> riding dirt donk like me, is it really valuable for protection, or just
> posing? The only time in the past 10 years or so that I wish I'd had
> some protection was when I left some elbow skin on the Slickrock trail.
> (Don't let the name fool you, that stuff's as slick as 80 grit sandpaper!)

It only took one fall on Slickrock to convince me that elbow guards are
important wardrobe items.  :-<

> Assuming that body armor is a good idea, what's the best stuff out
> there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?
> Or do you just pick what looks neat/cool/mostneon? :-)

I've been impressed with the Mach 5's (I forget the manufacturer).

> Good ventilation would be high on my list for comfortable desert riding.
> Any reason (besides $$) to get a front-only protector instead of full
> coverage?

YES, get full  coverage!  Body  armor  has come a long ways in the last 10
years.  I bought the first full coverage  armor, the HRP Flak Jak, 7 years
ago.  As a past  victim of a separated  shoulder,  full back  coverage  is
important  to me.  The  original  Flak Jak with mesh  supported  shoulders
provides good ventilation, but is somewhat bulky and cannot be worn easily
under jackets.  The Flak Jak II is simple, trimmer, and reasonably priced. 

In a crash situation, I find that an aversion to landing on my face causes
me to roll in the air to land on my back.  Full  protection is invaluable.
It provides  protection  from  abrasions,  bruises, and spinal injury.  Of
course, in our litagious  society, you will find  disclaimers  on all Body
Tupperware  stating  that they are only  designed  to protect  from flying
rocks, not serious crashes.

Another  trick with body  armor is the  wearing  of  backpacks.  Using the
conventional approach, packs are very difficult to get off and on over the
shoulder pads.  What I have done is thread the pack straps into the armor,
making  the pack and armor an  integral  assembly.  I use the pack only to
carry the light  bulky  loads,  such as rain gear, that do not easily  fit
into a fanny pack.

After weighing in all of my protective  gear at over 20#, I have developed
an  interesting  theory to correlate the weight of armor to the age of the
rider.  When you're a teenager, you're so invincible that sneakers, jeans,
and  T-shirt  are  sufficient.  Over the years, as you begin to  painfully
come to terms with your  mortality,  you  gradually  add boots, knee pads,
body armor, etc.  By my  calculations,  by the time I'm 60, the tremendous
weight of my protective gear alone will prevent me from lifting a leg over
the bike, let alone  riding.  Maybe we can use hoists, like the knights in
armor used to mound their steeds?  :-)

-Jeff Deeney-  				DoD#0498
jld@hpfcla.hp.fc.com			AMA#540813
Fort Collins, Colorado

Dirt bike riding is perfectly safe; I have the scars to prove it. 



From: lawrence@hydra.unm.edu (David/Matt Lawrence)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: REC.MOTO.DIRT
Date: 16 Oct 91 19:45:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

- Armor   I wear THOR Mach 5 armor.  I have been very glad (on several
   occassions) that I had it on.  I like it more than other brands/styles
   because of the shoulder rotator cuff protection.  I recently did a
   "get off" at speed and ripped up my armor BUT NOT MY SKIN.  I was
   very sore but not cut anywhere.
   I wear black Rollerblade elbow pads that are totally separate from 
   the armor.  They work really well.

- Boots   I wear AXO Turbo RC Kevlar.  I love them!  All I can say is
   that if you have never worn nice off-road cycle boots you are missing
   out.  They offer GREAT protection.

- Pants  I have AXO pants.  They are nice because they do not bunch up
   in uncomfortable places like jeans tend to do.  The hip padding is
   useful at times as well
                                                        1991 XR-600
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
      ___	       _	David P. Lawrence
     /   )            //	Computer Engineer   BDM International, Inc.
    /   /  __     . _(/		Albuquerque, New Mexico
   /__/(__(_(_\/_/_(_)\_	Account at University of New Mexico:
				lawrence@hydra.unm.edu (as well as others)
"The meek will inherit the earth... The rest of us will go to the stars!" OMNI
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*



Date: Mon, 21 Oct 91 12:39:09 PDT
From: niall@c3.PLA.CA.US (Neal Bedard)
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Organization: Cathode Ray Mission, San Jose

Riding pants, a kidney belt, and a jersey with elbow pads will prevent most of
the abrasion-type damage you'll sustain in a low-speed fall. As the speeds get
higher and you're riding more aggressively, the chest/back protector begins to
earn its keep, at the expense of binding you up a bit. Optionally, you can go
with just a chest protector to fend off rock roost.

Having said that, I have a Hallman Mach V and like it a lot. Fit and finish of
this unit are excellent, and it's really easy to get on and off (although you
do have to remove your helmet first.) I got it as a present from my wife, after
I came home from riding with my back all scraped up...

-Neal
[niall@c3.com]



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 12:16:58 PDT
From: Al.Conte@EBay.Sun.COM (Al Conte)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

OK donk, I think you know this already though.
All of us, even you! hav different ridin styles, mass locations
for our bulk, etc.
 From what I have seen / tried, no brand has got it on the others.
Ya gotta get in there pilgrim, and try da stuff on to see.
I'm 6 feet 2 inches @ 210 lbs.
I prefer AXO, "which I use"
Your milage may vary though.

Al



Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 08:23:00 PDT
From: Al.Conte@EBay.Sun.COM (Al Conte)
To: blgardne@javelin.sim.ES.COM
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor

> From blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com Mon Oct 14 17:00:07 1991
> > I'm 6 feet 2 inches @ 210 lbs.
> > I prefer AXO, "which I use"
> 
> 6'2", 195 here.  I guess I'll dig around town during winter and see if
> anyone carrys more than one brand. Any gotchas to look out for, things
> you've grown to hate about armor you've owned?

Yeah, don't bother with the plastic for your back.
Its very uncomfortable.
Also, make sure that what you buy has been designed
to be taken apart and modified by you.
Sometimes, you want alot of rock protection, so you
add the arm extention parts.
Other times, you just want some chest protection.
Its not nice to have to wear all of it all of the
time.

Al



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 15:07:59 -0400
From: Mike.Marshall@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
To: blgardne@javelin.sim.ES.COM
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor

> there? Thor(sten), Acerbis, Answer, High Point, JT, O'Neal, Axo?

Thor is good. Some I've seen are poorly made and skimpy. I'm sure there's
good stuff other than Thor.

-Mike



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 10:52:44 CDT
From: jfielek@gauss.ssc.gov (Josh Fielek)
To: blgardne@javelin.sim.ES.COM
Subject: Re: Dirt body armor

You might look at the T-Pro body armor as sold by Bowman Kincaid on
the west coast. I use the roadracing version of the armor, and if the
dirt dtuff works half as well (I crash tested mine...) it would be
superb. I t is a layer of the flexible pastic, backed with double
density foam. It works superbly for distributing the blow and
cusioning the impact. I can honestly say that the armor kept me from a
busted knee when i crashed in august.

I can get you the numbers if you want...

J. Fielek

======================================================================
And even more postings on armour.    Blaine   1-Oct-92
======================================================================

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 19:12:04 MST
From: 916 <jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!schottd>
Subject: Re:  The Daily Dirt

There were a lot of interesting comments concerning body armor in
the last post. From my point of view, it all depends on the type
of riding that you do. Personally, I would only think a fool
would pass up the protection of body armor if it is available.
$100 bucks is nothing comparied to one emergency visit. I personally
use the Thor Mach V. It by far offers the most protection, but
it is also the most restrictive. Having experiences a large number
of high speed crashes, I can attest that it works marvelously! I've
hit trees at rates of speed that would make most stuntmen applaud. 
My best case senerio came in the middle of July this year. I was
traveling at an approximate rate of 50mph when I tried to pass
a friend on a CR500. I went around him and lost the front end of my 
bike. It threw me over the handlebars in front of the bike. The bike
did not hit me, but I hit the ground and skipped 5 times (count them!)
5 times before I came to a stop. I managed to travel about 30 yards
on hardpacked clay. Once the dust had  settled, I was able to get
right back up, laugh a little, and continue riding. Not a scratch.
I saw a guy do the same thing about a month earlier but at a LOWER
rate of speed; he had no flesh left on his back to speak of once
he got up. 
 
Seriously, one can never go to far when it comes to protection. 
Maybe you don't crash a lot like I do, but you never know when it
is going to happen to you. I've never been seriously hurt in  a
wreck yet, and yet there are many times when I should have
been seriously injured. I contribute good luck, and good sense
in riding apparel to what has saved me. I've seen a lot of 
people get hurt riding, and alas, 99.5% either don't believe
in armor, or failed to have it on. I wont ride without it...

schottd@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
91 KDX200

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1991 22:26:50 -0600
From: crdecf.csc.ti.com!baxter (BEANS KNOWS PLASMA 5-3139 P4673)
Subject: More armor!

	My first "armor" was a JT Hondaline chest protector.  It bought it
from my ridding buddy for a mere $15 bucks.  It was uncomfortable, but offered
better roost protection than my current method. (duck :-)  In the sitting 
position on my bike (read - up on tank tight corners) my helmet would catch 
on the armor as I tried to straiten my neck.  I look ahead at the next section
when I ride.  It was very annoying.  I tried on a whole bunch of different 
armors.  I tried on the AXO pentagon but it did not fit me being 5'6" and all
legs.  The Thor Shock was nice but the ventilation seemed limited.  I stayed 
away from the JT models.  I finally rode with my friends FOX Roost II.  It
does not restrict my movement in the least on the bike.  I bought the dark blue
because it will match any bike well enough.  They have many color combinations
to choose from.  It has great airflow.  I have Turf tested my armor many times
and it has never let me down.  If it was not for the mesh (see below*) in 
between my shoulder and the plastic-meets-hard clay I'm sure I would have been
hurt.  I hit hard enough to see the outline of the mesh on my shoulder for 
3 days.  My shoulders also meet many trees during the cross-country races and 
my FOX Roost II keeps my upper body injury free.  
                              __    __    __    __
                             /  \__/  \__/  \__/  \    plastic and mesh are 
                             \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/    separated by about 1/2"
       mesh enlarged 3X ---  /  \__/  \__/  \__/  \    of space.  
                             \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/
                             /  \__/  \__/  \__/  \
                             \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/
                                \__/  \__/  \__/
________________________________________________________________________________
DoD #359              CR125            |               Mike Baxter   
AMA #607249                            |              
TCCRA  #261                            |      baxter@splvx1.csc.ti.com
Texas Cross-Country racing series      |      baxter@crdecf
50 miles of off-road Hell              |   Texas Instruments, Dallas Tx.
_______________________________________|________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 91 21:41:33 MST
From: 916 <jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!schottd>
Subject: Q/A

John Connelly writes:
 
   1. Does the Thor Mach V body armor provide lower back/kidney
      support?
  
1. I use the Mach V armor and it does not seem to provide the
needed back support. This is not their general purpose. They
protect these areas from injury very well though. I would 
suggest a good kidney belt in your circumstances. Then again
depending on your build and size, they might.
 
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 91 21:51:11 mst
From: Jeff Deeney <hpfcch.fc.hp.com!jeffd>
Subject: Re:  The Daily Dirt

John Connelly asks: 

>1) Does one of those Thor Mach 5 - type protectors offer kidney/lower back
>   support? It seems like every time I ride my lower back KILLS at the end
>   of the day...

Very little support.  Get a kidney belt for that.  For maximum protection,
there are kidney belts with built in armor for the spine.  However, they
look as if they could interfere with other body armor. 

------------------------------
Subject: Armor/Barkbusters/MXpants
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 4:56:21 GMT
From: ewing.ldgo.columbia.edu!jimsmith

>Hey all, I have a few questions for ya:
>
>1) Does one of those Thor Mach 5 - type protectors offer kidney/lower back
>   support? It seems like every time I ride my lower back KILLS at the end
>   of the day...

Chest protectors can do a lot of things but provide lower back support is
not one of them. A good kidney belt will help solve your lower back problems.
Kidney Belts are not all the same and you may want to try several to make
sure that you have a proper fit, they need to provide support but not be
too tight, or stiff. No one answer is correct for everyone, so try them
on and take your best shot. It isn't terminal if you quess incorrectly
since they wear out rather quickly. I usually go through at least one 
a race season.

Try the various chest protectors on, not just the flashy one you first 
see. I have trouble with some units not allowing enough freedom of
movement in the shoulders. I ended up with an acerbis Full flex which
provided the best freedom and the shoulder flaps don't get destroyed
in the tight trees found in the east (you know 28" bar area).

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 08:15:56 PST
From: nosc.mil!kennison%gandalf.nosc.mil (Steven J. Kennison)
Subject: Re: The Daily Dirt

As far as armor goes I prefer the Thor Shock cuz its the only stuff
to fit me.  Just got a new set so haven't had much time to try it out.
A couple of us are going to Octillo on Monday(Veterans Day) so anybody
from Sun Diego thats wants to head that way drop me some e-mail and we'll
find a meeting place.  Back to armor for a sec.  I have used leather pants
for years and prefer them over the nylon pants except that they are expensive.
Along the same lines I have a set of sleeves that are padded leather.  Just
the sleeves connected in back by elastic and in front by two snaps.  These
were available about 15 years ago but somebody could probally make a set if
you were interested.  This setup with armor should provide excellent
protection.  
--------
Steve
CR500
FJ1200
-------

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 08:21:11 -0800
From: nas.nasa.gov!ciotti (Robert B. Ciotti)
Subject: Re:  The Daily Dirt

>Hey all, I have a few questions for ya:
>
>1) Does one of those Thor Mach 5 - type protectors offer kidney/lower back
>   support? It seems like every time I ride my lower back KILLS at the end
>   of the day...

    No, none I am aware of do. Wear a kidney belt and get you butt off the
    seat especially when going over the rough stuff. I have always used
    the 'gold belt' kidney belt, comfortable and lasts. the AXO plastic
    style looks as if would be uncomfortable and rub. 

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Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.dirt
From: oconnor@eng.umd.edu (Mark O'Connor)
Subject: Re: boots and gear
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 92 23:24:45 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

>My friends Thor Shock body armor self destructed after one mild crash.
>I told him to write the company and include a copy of the receit and a
>photo of the body armour.  At least they could send him a replacement
>to the broken part.  If they do not mak good, I will boycot them.

This report suprises me.  I purchased a Thor Shock (Flak Jacket)
at the beginning of last season, took the usual occasional falls
during the season, and finished last season early with an absolute
spectacular crash which left me and the bike at the doctor's office.
The Thor Shock has paid for itself (upper body OK, legs just now
becoming ready for the season) in one season, AND the thing still
looks new!  If the sucker blew apart on me, I'd write to the company.
Manufacturers and distributors need to know if their stuff is 
faulty.  Rarely will these people check for themselves.  They need
to be told.  I've found that many reputable organizations will
indeed make good on their products, if the claim is bonafide.

Mark OConnor         Aerospace Engineering       University of Maryland
'90 CR250R           AMA District 7 Vet #90      MB Racing Group

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Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.dirt
From: tim@intrepid.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tim Seiss)
Subject: Re: boots and gear
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1992 17:06:18 GMT

>My friends Thor Shock body armor self destructed after one mild crash.

I have a similar story.  While putting on my new Hallman Mach 5 body armor
a couple years ago, I tore off one of the bicep/tricep protectors.  The
nylon strap holding the piece to the main body protector pulled right
through the El Cheapo rivet/screw type thing.  Also, the accessory elbow/
forearm protectors constantly came unsnapped and the pivoting elbow guard
part got stuck in the 90 degree position.  My parents gave it to me for
Christmas, thinking that it was the best body protection available.  Instead
they spent $140 on absolute junk.

I never did get around to writing Hallman Racing to complain, but I meant to.
I just fixed the Mach 5 myself with some old leather bicycle pedal toe-straps.
I'd never buy that stuff again.

Tim Seiss

P.S. Just in case you didn't know, THOR used to be Hallman Racing.  Doesn't
     sound like their products have improved.

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Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.dirt
From: ai598@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Sturdevant)
Subject: Satisfied Mach V customer (was Re: boots and gear
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 00:31:22 GMT

In a previous article, tim@intrepid.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tim Seiss) says:

>  While putting on my new Hallman Mach 5 body armor
>a couple years ago, I tore off one of the bicep/tricep protectors.  The
>nylon strap holding the piece to the main body protector pulled right
>through the El Cheapo rivet/screw type thing.  Also, the accessory elbow/
>forearm protectors constantly came unsnapped and the pivoting elbow guard
>part got stuck in the 90 degree position.  My parents gave it to me for
>Christmas, thinking that it was the best body protection available.  Instead
>they spent $140 on absolute junk.

	My Mach 5 stuff has held up impressively. Except for the elbow 
guards which, like yours, kept falling off of the snap holding them to 
the shoulder guards. I also modified the shoulder straps by deleting the
dumb straps they came with and adding some velcro closure ones.
	Just another data point.
-- 
Go fast. Take chances.

	Mike S.

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From: kenm@array.com (Ken Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: HOCKEY EQUIPMENT AS SAFET
Date: 31 Mar 92 16:13:22 GMT

dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes:
:  I've thought about armor a few times, but I'd really prefer something
: that would fit inside my pants leg, not over it.  I don't want to go
: around looking like Mel Gibson in "Road Warrior", I just want to keep
: anything from getting to that knee.

THOR (Torsten Hallman Orginal Racewear) makes a knee guard that you describe.
They fit over your ankle and all the way up to your knee.  I smashed a tree
stump (semi-rotten) at about 25 mph in a race one afternoon and thought I 
was going to loose  a lot of needed flesh, but all I saw (after I opened 
my eyes again :-) ) were flying splinters.  Played hell with my Sinisalos
but the knee was perfect.  They are about $45 per set but well worth it 
if you like your knees.

  O                    Ken Murphy aka kenm@array.com              President RMEC
 <M> MerfMan          DoD #0479      '92 KTM 250 EX/C              Member COHVCO
_/ \_                 Race Now Party Later Racing Team                AMA 406077
Disclaimer: _I_ don't believe what I said, why should you?

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From: mcclend@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Mike McClendon)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 19:24:45 GMT
Subject: Knee Protectors Like Real Armor
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.dirt

I've found a terrific knee protector -- not at a moto shop . . . or sporting
goods store . . . but at a hardware store!  I must have seen a dozen types, most
too klunky for us, but the one I bought has these features:

* slim design, no bulges to prevent gripping the gas tank,

* plastic wraps around your knee, protecting inside, front, & outside of knee!,

* two-pieces of hinged plastic; the lower piece looks like a conventional 
  well-made protector, but then there is an upper piece that overlaps the lower
  so at all knee angles from straight to 90 degrees your knee is covered!  The
  hinges are rivets on each side, and this works really well.

The bag said "Accu-Flex," but I suspect these are made by some company and
then various distributors put them in their own bags.  The sales guy said he
thinks they are made by "Clancy"; he also said his usual customers are
plumbers and cement finishers.  Mine cost $22 on sale; usually $29.

Two changes I might make:  replace the rubber straps with velcro; extend the
foam down to the boot for less reliance on the straps.

These are *by far* the best moto knee protectors I've yet seen, well worth
checking out
------------------------------
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.dirt