HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SCHMIDT@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jon Schmidt)
Subject: Re: fsu and A&M was(Re: Roll Tide down the Polls!)
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:54:25 GMT

In article <BxvDIq.4Dq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
tamu@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Henderson) writes:
>
>Is there any precedent(sp?) of a 1 lose team leap frogging a no lose team?
>Recently there has been the 1 tie leap frog, but with a lose.  So far
>no one has proved they are better than us, someone has proved they are
>better than fsu.
>
>Todd
 
How about 5 years ago, the 1987 season.  The role of A&M was played that
year by Syracuse, which finished the regular season with a record of
11-0 and a ranking of #4.  FSU was also the culprit in 1987.  FSU lost
in typical fashion to Miami by one point early in the season, this time
at Tallahassee.  But despite this one loss FSU was ranked #3, ahead of
unbeaten Syracuse, by the end of the regular season.  However, I cannot
say for sure that FSU "leapfrogged" Syracuse that year;  Syracuse,
despite its unblemished record, may never have been ranked above FSU.
 
Here were the rankings and matchups going into the 1987 bowl season:
 
  #1 Oklahoma (11-0) vs #2 Miami (11-0)    in the Orange Bowl
  #3 FSU (10-1)      vs #5 Nebraska (10-1) in the Fiesta Bowl
  #4 Syracuse (11-0) vs #6 Auburn (9-1-1)  in the Sugar Bowl
 
What does this prove?  Not much except that the voters have consistently
discounted a close early-season loss by FSU to Miami.
 
-- 
Jon_Schmidt@stortek.com  Storage Technology Corporation
(303) 673-3581 - voice   2270 South 88th Street
(303) 673-6039 - fax     Louisville, Colorado 80028-5209
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Michigan - National Championship - Not with Moeller
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:44:37 GMT

jones@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (William P. Jones) writes:

>In article <BxvDDE.IzB@hfglobe.intel.com>, sting@hfglobe.intel.com (Joe Bennett) 
>writes...
>> 
>>You *really* better check the facts, pal.  The Rose Bowl is one of the highest
>>ranked games on January 1.  Only the Orange Bowl does better, and they have to
>>rely on cheesy, elctro-light-lip-synching-choreographed-dance-o-thons to
>>provide an added incentive to watch.  Add to that a last second all out effort
>>to get a team some haughty pollsters think is number one, and frankly I'm not
>>too impressed with that game.
>> 
>>IMO
>>Joe
>The 1989 Rose Bowl was clobbered by the ND - West Virgina Fiesta Bowl. The Rose 
>Bowl is like a Road Runner cartoon. The only mystery is how the Big 10 team 
>will lose this time.


The Rose Bowl *STILL* ranks as the premier Bowl Game on New Year's Day, if you
look at Pageantry, excitement and school payout.  No other Bowl game really comes
close in terms of money.

While I was attending OSU in the late 70's, earley 80's, I was in the Marching
Band and had the advantage of going to the following Bowl Games:  Gator (poor
Woody!), Rose, Fiesta and Liberty.  I know, I know, that was 10 years ago and
I'm sure the Fiesta is a lot different today, but I was so incredibly impressed
by the spectacle of the Rose Bowl Parade (although I'd NEVER want to march in
another one of THOSE critters!) and the game itself.  At that time, the Fiesta
wasn't even close in terms of the entire Bowl Game and surrounding Pageantry.
The Fiesta Bowl may be fun to go to, like the Orange Bowl, but IMHO, nothing
can really match the history and tradition of the Rose.  Also, and this is fact,
not opinion, the Rose still pays out the most $$.

The only thing I never liked about the Rose Bowl was the fact that basically,
the Pac-10 teams that usually go are playing in their own backyard.  Also, the
Big Ten teams just can't seem to adapt to the hoopla, fascination with Hollywood
and warm weather.  I know we thought it was like a vacation to go to California
at that time of year.  Heck, everybody back home was freezing their fannies off!

allen
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: mike@spss.com (mike cornwall)
Subject: Re: Penn State Should Withdraw
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:15:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.211223.19183@walter.bellcore.com> lein@cat.uucp (John Leinaweaver) writes:
>
>This year there were no moritoriums and no restrictions for selection.
>When the cartel was organizing, PSU wanted to be a part of it but was
>shut out (one less team means more money for those leagues involved).
>

Hey, after all this criticism of the evil bowl cartel, lets give them some
credit for recognizing even before the season started that Pepsi State would 
be mediocre at best.

>
>John L

--
Mike Cornwall
mike@spss.com
From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: fichigan fumbles
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:30:26 EST

In article <g2G=LC_@engin.umich.edu>, hpang@engin.umich.edu (Ho Sun Pang) writes:
> In article <1992Nov16.142102.27490@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@lyre.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:
>>
>>GO BUCKS!!! [insert your own vulgar, unprintable verb here] BLUE!!!
>>-- 
>>_______________________________________________________________________________
>> Mark Atchison, a.k.a. <atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu>; Graduate Student in the
>>Computer Science Dept, THE Ohio State University (NOT an Ohio State University)
>>		Any plagiarisms seen above are not my own...
> 
> 
> Excuse me, did you said GO BUCKS or GOT FUCX?
> 
> 

He said both, GO BUCKS and you GOT FUCKED. Michigan sucks. GO BUCKS.

-Garret
From: n8443916@henson.cc.wwu.edu (John Gossman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Coaches DIS the Pac-10
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:27:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Nov23.182733.15839
Organization: Western Washington University

HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:

>In <1992Nov23.042056.24710@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n8443916@henson.cc.wwu.edu writes:

>> 
>> 	There are 12 teams in the country better than any team
>> in the Pac-10 this year.    NOT!!!!!!!!!
>> 
>> 	Last time I heard there were 2 Pac-10 coaches in the
>> CNN poll.  The rest of the conferences are stiffing the Pac-10.  
>> Well, they'll have to pay for it come bowl time.

>  Umm, last year the coaches gave Udub a share of the MNC.  Suddenly they are
>jerks?

	Actually, I don't care who they think is the best team in the
Pac-10, just that they recognize SOMEBODY in the Pac-10 is good.  My
feeling is that the Pac-10 is facing Conference Envy this year, coupled
with too much parity.   Frankly, UW is not as good as last year, but
there are about 5 teams in the P10 as good as Cal was last year.  The
coaches put too much emphasis on record (so do the AP writers, but they
seem to be slightly better).

	-JG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: tech@maitland.cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini)
Subject: Re: Possible #1 vs. #2 matchup in major bowl games.
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:58:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.165239.12725@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> costley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Brett Costley) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.152624.10084@ods.com> scott@ods.com (Scott Harper) writes:
>>Alireza Vali (reza@magellan.ae.utexas.edu) wrote:
>>: Scenario 4: MNC decided in the Fiesta Bowl.
>>: 
>>: #1 Miami (11-0) vs. #2 Florida State (10-1)
>>: 
>>: This one will be possible if, again, Alabama loses, and Michigan is
>>: tripped up by Ohio State.  A loss or poor showing by A&M will let FSU
>>: jump over them to #2.  I would **LOVE** to see this rematch, and I'm
>>: sure it will be an incredible game.
>>
>>Well, this all of a sudden is a very real possibility... 2 of the 3 'ifs'
>>cited above have happened...  (UM tied by Illinois, FSU jumps A&M)
>>
>>My question is: 
>>
>>Why in the world would Miami play FSU again?  They already beat them.

No the question is; why is everyone looking past the gators here. FSU
has to play them saturday and they are NEVER pushovers. I think we
'Nole fans might want to keep this rematch stuff cool until next week.
	   

	   Tony (Just say 'Noles) Travaglini
	   tech@cs.ucf.edu
From: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com (David Head)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: FSU 1993 Schedule
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:45:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Nov16.194506.19045
Reply-To: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne  FL


Alright you Noles in the know!  I realize it is a bit early to be thinking
about next year already since we are still in the championship hunt this
year.  But, I have heard that we lose Tulane for Notre Dame next year.  If
so, that would probably be in South Bend right?  Wouldn't that give us
5 home games and 6 road games next year?  That is,

Miami, Clemson, N.C. State, Virginia, and Ga. Tech in Tallahassee

Maryland, North Carolina, Wake Forest, Duke, Florida, (and Notre Dame?) away


We should have a strong team next year, but this would be a BRUTAL schedule
to have to win (even if Notre Dame is in Tallahassee instead).  Can anyone
confirm?

D. Head
From: ttsai@crhc.uiuc.edu (Timothy Tsai)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty
Date: 19 Nov 1992 20:46:35 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: haydn.crhc.uiuc.edu

SCHMIDT@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jon Schmidt) writes:
>Rule 9 Conduct of Players and Others Subject to Rules
>   1. No player, substitute, coach, authorized attendant or other
>      persons subject to the rules shall use abusive or insulting
>      language to players or officials or indulge in any conduct that
>      might incite players or spectators.
If this rule is read strictly, then any player or coach that uses abusive or
insulting language to someone on their own team is guilty of unsportsmanlike
conduct.  I doubt the writers of this rule were thinking about that when they
wrote the rule, but if you think about it, abusing your own teammate is
definitely unsportsmanlike.  I wonder if this type of penalty has ever been
called.

>   3. No person subject to the rules, except players, officials and
>      eligible substitutes, shall be on the field of play or end zones
>      during any period without permission from the referee (Exception:
>      Rule 3-3-5 <injured player>).
Are spectators considered "subject to the rules"?
-- 
Timothy Tsai              Celtics Rule!!!
ttsai@uiuc.edu            Let's go Mets!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: meskes@ulysses.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Meskes)
Subject: HELP: remaining schedule of ND needed
Keywords: ND
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik  /  RWTH Aachen
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:12:35 GMT

I would like to know the remaining games of the Irish. We have some TV coverage
of the Irish in Germany (officially they say they report on each game, but who
knows if that's right). Knowing their schedule I would know when to switch on
the TV. Pleas email me if you have it, because we have some problems with
our news (we get some of them really late, about three days! after posting).
Thanks in advance

  Michael
-- 
Michael Meskes, Lehrstuhl fuer angewandte Mathematik insb. Informatik,
RWTH-Aachen, Ahornstr. 55, D-W-5100 Aachen
Email: meskes@ulysses.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: crs@stein.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck)
Subject: Re: Big Ten bowls: all three of em :( (okay, four with PSU)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:01:44 GMT

pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen) writes:
>
>>>	Rose Bowl: Michigan (maybe they'll even win :)
>>>	Citrus Bowl: Ohio State
>>>	Holiday Bowl: Michigan State or Illinois
>
>>	This isn't altogether correct.  Iowa can still go to the Holiday
>>	if Illinois beats MSU and Iowa wins at Minnesota...
>
>	Also if both Illinois and Iowa win, Illinois will go to the
>Independence, Peach, Copper or Freedom Bowl.  So there will be three
>Big Ten teams in bowls for sure and possibly four if Iowa wins.

Does this scare anyone else as much as it does me?  I mean face it, the
only two Big Ten teams which deserve bowl bids this year are Michigan and
Ohio State.  The rest of the conference flat out sucked this year.  People
are seriously talking about sending not just one, but two or three 6-5
and 6-6 Big Ten teams to bowls.  Why all of the hypocrisy?  Simple--$$$.
Big Ten schools have a lot of graduates who follow their team to any
warm climate to watch them play, no matter how overmatched their team might
be.  In the (now distant) past, the Big Ten was the toughest conference in
the nation, but they have been surpassed by nearly all of the other major
conferences in terms of performance.  As if there was ever any doubt, does
anyone not now believe that money rules for college athletics?
****************************************************************************
Cliff Slaughterbeck           * 
Dept. of Physics, FM-15       *   Hey Matt!  The diffusion pump is full of
University of Washington      *   water again!
Seattle, WA 98195             *
****************************************************************************
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:04:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Nov16.170402.7095
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

In article <BxsKJ5.7C7@encore.com> jfawcett@encore.com (Jason "Raise Cane" Fawcett) writes:
>News-Software: NN 6.4.16
>
>In <1992Nov15.043905.16588@leland.Stanford.EDU> gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka) writes:
>
>| It's poetic justice that on the day Michigan played for a tie
>| against an unranked team, ND goes for the win and finally beats
>| Penn State again! ND could have kicked the extra point for a tie.
>| And the fourth down TD and
>| conversion, both with passes, show Mirer's potential as a great QB.
>| You don't risk losing the game (and hurting your Bowl status) 
>| without great confidence in your QB.
>
>How could you hurt ND Bowl status.  All they have to do is win 7 games
>and they get a Major NYD game at the Orange, Cotton, Sugar or Fiesta.

Notre Dame was going to a New Year's Day bowl before this game, so they're
currently playing to see which one - the better they play, the better
the bowl.

However, much as I like Notre Dame, Holtz's call to go for the two point
conversion was close to a no-brainer.  If Notre Dame ends up the season
8-1-2 (and that's assuming a far from sure win against USC), they'd be
playing in the Fiesta Bowl in a game with no national championship
implications.  The same is true if they went 8-2-1.  On the other hand,
if they can finish 9-1-1, and one or two other not terribly improbable
things happen, Notre Dame could be playing in a bowl that does affect
the national championship, with the smallest outside shot at even winning
the championship.  A tie did Notre Dame little or no good, in those 
circumstances, while a win could make a tremendous difference.

Michigan, on the other hand, got to the Rose Bowl with a tie, though they
probably extinguished their national championship hopes by doing so.  Also,
Notre Dame needed to only get a 2 point conversion to win.  Michigan had
to cover another twenty yards or so with very little time left.  That's
a much tougher decision to make.

-- 
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu
Xref: sparky rec.sport.football.college:20897 rec.sport.basketball.college:16908
From: smithg@a.cs.okstate.edu (SMITH GARY WAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college,rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: The NCAA Applies its Double Standard Again
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:14:18 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater

In article <1992Nov18.201019.2947@ods.com> scott@ods.com (Scott Harper) writes:
>Glenn Tanner (tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu) wrote:
>: NO WAY the NCAA would ever give A&M the Death Penalty.  I seem to remember
>: their basketball team getting caught a couple of years ago.
>
>Allegations were brought, investigation was made, no penalty given.

There were some penalties.  The most severe being a reduction in basketball
scholarships.  We were only allowed to give out two last year and three
this year.  There are only 8 (i think) players on scholarship this season.

- goober (news at A&M is screwed this week) smith
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Holiday Bowl (Illinois or MSU)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:22:44 GMT

In <Bxx1z2.GCJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen) writes:

>	The Holiday Bowl has announced that the winner of the Illinois v.
>Michigan State game in Champaign will go to the Holiday Bowl, regardless
>of what Iowa does.  Iowa will go to the Copper Bowl if they should win.
>So there will be three or four Big 10 teams in bowls, not including Penn
>State.

According to the Tribune, Wisconsin is the #2 Freedom bowl choice, behind
Utah.  Utah would have to beat BYU to go, which only happens in years
ending with '8'.  :->  So the Big 10 could send five teams this year.
-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: Which one of these quarterbacks should get the Heisman
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:46:21 GMT

In article <83913@ut-emx.uucp> reza@magellan.ae.utexas.edu (Alireza Vali) writes:

   This comparison is irrelevant.  Remember last year?  Desmond Howard won
   the trophy (I think so, yes?) but in a comparison similar to the one
   above, Washington's Mario Bailey had the superior stats, and his team
   was undefeated.

You didn't look at all the stats.

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: willmsch@buzz.rtp.dg.com (Royce Willmschen)
Subject: Re: The NCAA Applies its Double Standard Again
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 14:35:31 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <h7F=#y@engin.umich.edu>, chyang@minorca.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
> 
> 	To Accuse NCAA's as having double standard in Washington's case
> is totally unethical and simply stupid.
> 
> 	I hope this rumor and stupid shit like this would stop! 
> 
> - Chung "I AM REALLY PISSED!"  Yang 


Are you head of the UW Anti-Defamation League or what?  We're talking college
football here.  It's a game.  I'd hate to see mad about something that matters.

-- 
Royce Willmschen                    
Data General Corp.			"Generic Quote"
willmsch@buzz.rtp.dg.com
919-248-5910	
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka)
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:59:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.194508.1732@spss.com> nichols@spss.com (David Nichols) writes:
>
>I will say that the only team I've seen that even approaches Notre Dame
>in terms of consistency of referee favoritism is Penn State, but only when
>playing at home. Notre Dame gets referee blessings at home and on the road.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>--
> David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
> Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
>*******************************************************************************
> Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.

I let it go once, but I won't keep silent after seeing you repeat this
silly, biased, non-factual statement. Why do you form such an opinion?
Do you watch every televised ND (or Penn State) game?  Or did you just
see the one's where you were rooting for ND's opponent, and they lost?  
I've either attended or watched most ND games since 1981.  Believe me,
ND has been hurt by bad calls many times. 
Since ND vs. USC is coming up, I should mention the most blatant bad 
call I can remember. It happened in the Faust era. 
ND was winning at USC late in the game, when 'SC was driving for a go
ahead TD. A USC ball carrier was hit inside the 5 but managed to get into
the endzone, and a ref signaled TD.  Meanwhile in the area where the hit
occurred, the ball sat on the ground, with an ND defender covering it. 
The ball and runner went opposite directions due to the hit, and the ball 
never crossed the goal line. But the ref didn't remember it that way, so
USC won the game. You don't ever forget calls like that. 

In any case, these claims that team A benefits from referee favoritism
are absolutely ridiculous and unfounded. The quality and consistency of 
play calling does seem to vary quite a bit, from ref to ref, from game to
game, week to week. But unless you're going to show proof, or talk about
specific situations, you've got to say that every team suffers and/or 
benefits from bad calls about equally.  If anything, you'd think a ref
would be wary of favoring a highly visible team, and let too much go,
like tackling lineman by the neck.  But, why do you think they can
get away with it consistently, with everyone in the country watching? 

What I'd like to see is that when video tape reveals an obviously bad call, 
the refs be required to view it, and take some type of remedial action, 
whether it's glasses, or additional training and practice in being in the 
proper position to see the play next time. (Similar to driving school).
Sounds crazy, I know. :-}

-
Greg Sroka
Menlo Park, CA
Newsgroups: osu.sports,rec.sport.football.college
From: atchison@kingkong.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison)
Subject: no respect for tOSU
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:26:20 GMT

What's wrong with this picture?????

Before: Michigan   6th
	Ohio State 17th

During: Ohio State 13
	Michigan   13, but it was a serious butt-kicking, and each and every
		       Blue player knows he was whupped.

After:  Michigan   7th
	Ohio State 15th

Here's hoping our 45-10 blowout of Alabama (64-6 if Florida gets in) on New
Year's Day will vault us all the way to 11th!  Sheesh!
Ranked 8 spots below a team that we're (right now) at least as good as?!?

And while I'm at it, how about the classy whine-job by Moeller in the postgame?

Crying about the wet field?  Didn't we play on the same one?  Moaning about
crowd noise (which was awesome -- the loudest I've heard in the last 40 or so
games in the 'shoe)?  Sure it was loud, but you come out looking pretty silly
when your quarterback tells the press that it wasn't a factor.

How 'bout this Mo:  Ohio State played a pretty damn good football game.  They
whipped your offense.  271 yards.  Total.  Over 200 yards below your average.
They moved the ball against your defense.  360+ yards.  They wanted it more.

Any coach with class would have at least used the cliches "give them some
credit", or "they were a pretty good football team today".  No, no... all you
can do is whine about slippery grass?  Come on Mo, a little respect is due!

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
 Mark Atchison, a.k.a. <atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu>; Graduate Student in the
Computer Science Dept, THE Ohio State University (NOT an Ohio State University)
		Any plagiarisms seen above are not my own...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college