HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Virus design
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:41:12 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <ousHwB1w165w@ruth.UUCP> rat@ruth.UUCP (David Douthitt) writes:

>What about a virus that showed up on your system, and said "Hi!  I used
>security hole x, but I fixed it!"  Imagine what would have happened
>(with appropriate warnings and so on) if a virus was written (very similar
>to what rtm did), but instead it closed up the security holes that rtm
>eventually used.
  For one thing, we wouldn't be able to beleive it; we would STILL
have to re-load our system. Our system files would fail their
checksums and we would have no way of knowing what had been changed.
After all, a program which fixed hole "x" could have left its own
surprises in hole "y" for all we know.

>Those holes are the perfect example - after all, they *HAD* been fixed
>as I understand it, but many people did not update their software to
>fix them.  See what happens when you leave it up to the admins?
     Well, that's the responsibility of the people who own and operate
the systems. If your admin doesn't do his or her job, you need to find
a better sysadm. It is tyrannical to force changes and improvements on
those who do not want them. Let them live with the consequences of
their own free choice of action. 
    Perhaps 10 or 15 years ago there was an excuse for a system
administrator to be ignorant of security issues. Nowadays, a system
administrator who is ignorant of security is as out of place as a
doctor who does not wash her hands before examining a patient. 
   If a company pays for ignorance with failure....well, nobody dies.
The information is available to anyone who wants to learn. Not just in
obscure places; you can't pick up any conputer magazine or trade rag
without seeing ads for security screaming out at you. Anyone who
ignores all this is going to fail at something, be it security or
development or some other part of their business.
  Those of us who DO try to keep up will have our jobs made harder by 
these viruses. If our security DOES work, on the other hand, we will
notify the site which is the source of an attempted intrusion, so
maybe they will get stopped up the line.
  I'm worried about another thing too. If you can have a virus come in
to "protect" me from bad viruses, what's to stop a virus from coming
in and doing other things....opening the door to competitors, reading
our files for signs of political or criminal activity, or any other
sort of monitoring?
  Nope, I want my system to run what we put on it and only what we put
on it. 


   
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
From: wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!shiva@cactus.org (System Smof)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: EFFector Online 4.04 Civil Disobedience by H.D. Thoreau
Date: 25 Dec 1992 12:15:27 -0600
Organization: The SMOF-BBS: Science Fiction Online Since 1985 [512-467-7317]
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

That Thoreau dude sure is a wordy sumbitch. He sounds like a typical
liberal arts major. heh.
 ____________________________________________________________________
/                                |                            |      \
|SMOF-BBS 512-467-7317 PCP=TXAUS |"The World's First Online   | __|__ |
|    Proline:  shiva@pro-smof    | Science Fiction Convention"| \_|_/ |
|    Internet: wixer!pro-lep!pro-smof!shiva@cs.utexas.edu     |   |   |
\________________________________|____________________________|______/


Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.amateur-comp,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: lachman@netcom.com (Hans Lachman)
Subject: Programmers and Libertarians (was: Re: [misc.activism.progressive] Clinton Office Requests Comments)
Organization: Netcom
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 11:34:35 GMT

In article <BZS.93Jan2232208@world.std.com> bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
>
>>>    If Usenet is any reasonable sample, though, there *does* seem to be
>>>a relation between being a programmer and a libertarian.  I don't think
>>>anyone can prove a definite correlation; but my guess is that the two
>>>are related by the fact that programmers are overwhelmingly white,
...
>>I do not think that it is really because programmers are white, educated,
>>upper-middle-class
...

My guess is that the correlation between programmers and
Libertarians is due to the fact that programmers (the smart
ones at least) keenly understand the KISS principle (Keep
It Simple, Stupid).  They know that the simpler a system is,
the more likely its effectiveness and integrity can be
maintained.  They look at the federal government and see a
"Rube Goldberg" machine in all its glory.  Take the deficit.
(Please!)  The government is hemorrhaging red ink like a
buggy operating system with major memory leaks.  If we stick
with a simpler design, it is less likely that we will foul
things up in the implementation.

Hans Lachman
lachman@netcom.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: Programmers and Libertarians (was: Re: [misc.activism.progressive] Clinton Office Requests Comments)
Organization: fwa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 14:41:42 GMT

lachman@netcom.com (Hans Lachman) writes:

>My guess is that the correlation between programmers and
>Libertarians is due to the fact that programmers (the smart
>ones at least) keenly understand the KISS principle (Keep
>It Simple, Stupid).  They know that the simpler a system is,
>the more likely its effectiveness and integrity can be
>maintained.  They look at the federal government and see a
>"Rube Goldberg" machine in all its glory.  Take the deficit.
>(Please!)  The government is hemorrhaging red ink like a
>buggy operating system with major memory leaks.  If we stick
>with a simpler design, it is less likely that we will foul
>things up in the implementation.

Analogies between engineering & politics like the above have a checkered
history, to say the least.  For much of the first part of this century it
was widely assumed that Communism more precisely mapped onto the principles
of design efficiency espoused by technologists; in fact, many
anti-communists granted their antagonists the point, and anchored their
opposition in a wider critique of technological rationalism in general. 
These days both sides of that argument seem quaint.  The day will come when
the above reads like a period piece, too.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden * pnh@panix.com * CIS: 72701,1344 * GEnie: PNH
From: rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Info re: Liberty, EFF et All...
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:22:24 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: rita@eff.org

In article <33615.2B3EB576@puddle.fidonet.org> Don.Kulha@f7.n125.z1.fidonet.org (Don Kulha) writes:

>    I'm looking for refferals to where I can call in and download
>(HST or V.32b prefferably) various texts relating to online rights,
>the EFF and it's work, electronic citizenship and the like. Leads 
>will be greatly appreciated. Please note that we don't currently
>have access to FTP services hence I need to go dial-up.
>   Thanks in Advance....DCK

	Hi, Don.  If you have access to e-mail, you can use the EFF's
archive server.  Send a message with the body and subject "help" to
archive-server@eff.org for instructions.

	We also have a disk with many of the most popular files in the
ftp archives.  You can send me e-mail requesting one -- specify
whether you want DOS or Mac.  The DOS files are zipped; the Mac files
are self-extracting.

	The Austin chapter of the EFF also runs a BBS that keeps these
sorts of files online.  SMOF: 512-467-7317.



-- 
Rita Rouvalis                                Electronic Frontier Foundation
rita@eff.org                                                    eff@eff.org
CIS:70007,5621                                                (617)864-0665
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: AT&T TIMEOUT & DISABL
From: terry.begley@grapevine.lrk.ar.us (Terry Begley) 
Date: 29 Dec 92 11:04:00 GMT
Reply-To: terry.begley@grapevine.lrk.ar.us (Terry Begley) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The GrapeVine BBS *** N. Little Rock, AR *** (501) 753-8121

BS>>So get your relative a cordless phone.  There is a diminished level of
BS>>privacy, but if it was truely lifesaving info, that shouldn't be a major
BS>>concern, and if it isn't critical, and privacy is desired, a "Hold on while
BS>>I get to my other phone" should work.

        Our family did this for out grandmother who was in a wheelchair.
        She carried the phone around with her everywhere in the house.

        On a related note, we always let the phone ring at least 10
        times before hanging up.  We never had any problem letting it
        ring that many times.  How long was the original poster looking
        to let the phone ring?

Terry
tbegley@creighton.edu


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Robot Roll Call - Cambot,Gypsy,Tom Servo, Croooowwww!
---
 * Onwards And Upwards BBS (402) 341-7408
 * PostLink(tm) v1.04  ONANDUP (#1600) : RelayNet(tm) Hub
                              
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: WELL anonymity policy
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:02:11 GMT

In article <1h66qsINNn1v@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:

>But given that the admins tell new users pseudonymous accounts
>are not allowed except in special circumstances, it would
>be remarkebly two-faced of them to in fact allow them
>on request, wouldn't it?

I don't see how. "Special circumstances," as a practical matter,
seems to mean that you have to want anonymity for something more than a
whim.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Beneficial Virus?
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:14:48 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <725811811.24290@zooid.guild.org> ron@zooid.guild.org (Secret Mud) writes:

>From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)

>>Quite a broad statement there.  I came up with an idea (never
>>implemented BTW) for a file compression virus for use on my home
>>computer(s).  Basically it would be a standard virus, but it would
>>compress a file it prepends itself to, so that upon execution
>>it would uncompress the file for normal execution.  It would _only_
>>infect files that could benefit from compression.  It would also check
>>for some file or other sort of marker on the system that the user
>>would have placed to give the virus permission to spread.  Thus
>>keeping it from spreading to anyone who didn't want it around.
>>
>>Certainly a virus, and certainly beneficial.  (Assuming it wasn't
>>buggy of course.  :-)  )


>So your "beneficial" virus gets loose on my computer.  And some time later, I
>want to, hmm, edit the icons in a Windows .exe.  Or maybe I've got an ugly old
>program that modifies its exe so that it knows where it is.  Crunch!  The
>virus just got in the way--and if I didn't install the virus on my computer,
>I'm going to go looking for the owner.

Don't you read what you're replying to?!  Read it again, will ya?

I said this would be for _my_ use on _my_ home computer, and it would
look for permission before spreading.  It would not 'get loose' on
your computer unless you asked for it _and_ placed a special
permission file in your system.

And of course this permission file could have a listing of files which
the virus is forbidden from touching.  

Didn't it occur to you that there would be a decompression method
other than the virus itself?  Is this such a difficult concept?

If you didn't install the virus on your computer it did not get there,
so you have noone to threaten but yourself.


-- 
 Richard Powers    / Disclaimer: My keyboard is \   Computer=Amiga
rpowers@panix.com <  screwy.   Missing  letters  >  Music=Industrial
   Hail Eris!      \ should     be    expected. /   Food=Vegetarian
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.news,comp.org.eff.talk
From: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Heracleitus)
Subject: CACM Articles On-Line?
Originator: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:15:29 GMT


  I am using the WAIS on THINK.COM to search a cacm database on
quake.think.com, but the directories don't correspond to any on that
machine.  Speicifcally, I'm looking for the text of Winter 1990, and
the WAIS search procedure isn't letting me procure the whole issue,as
an ftp would.  Is there a CACM anonymous
ftp site?

Doug Lamb
dtl8v@Virginia.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
From: gsk@world.std.com (Geoffrey S Knauth)
Subject: Free Software Workshop, Moscow, 4/19-23
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:19:58 GMT

	     CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS

   There is a conference on Free Software taking place in Moscow,
Russia, April 19-23, 1993.

   The conference is hosted by SUUG, the Society of Unix User Groups
(formerly the Soviet Unix Users Group), the Russian Center for Systems
Programming, the Russian Chapter of the Free Software Foundation, and
the International Center for Scientific and Technical Information.

   Participant specialists are coming from North America, Europe and
Japan.  We have just learned that Richard Stallman, founder of the
Free Software Foundation, and recipient of the ACM Admiral Grace
Hopper Award and MacArthur Fellowship, will attend.

   The main topics of the Workshop include:
   - the current state of the GNU project and other FSF projects;
   - "free" software means information freedom and sharing;
   - free software portability in Open Systems environments;
   - user experiences with free software;
   - free software in education and training;
   - legal aspects of free software;
   - relevance of free software to NIS modernization and democracy;
   - how NIS scientists can contribute to free software.

   Concurrent with the conference, there will be a small exhibition
demonstrating free software in a networked heterogeneous environment.

   The conference encourages submissions of original designs, papers
and ideas, and it welcomes the participation of computer and software
companies.

   In the past, a conference of this kind has drawn 120-140 attendees
from within the former Soviet Union, including 20-30 computer
specialists, 60-80 enthusiasts, 20-30 persons from the commercial
sector and members of the public.  This year the turnout is expected
to be larger, because there is great interest in free software among
all kinds of programmers and users.

   The precise location of the conference will be announced in the
coming months.

   For further information, you may contact any of the following
members of the program committee:

Name                        Telephone            E-mail
--------------------------  -----------------    ----------------------
Moscow
  Sergei Kuznetsov (Chair)  +7 (095) 272-4425    kuz@ivann.delta.msk.su
  Peter Brusilovski         +7 (095) 198-7055    plb@plb.icsti.su
  Dmitry Volodin            +7 (095) 231-2129    dvv@hq.demos.su
Boston
  Geoffrey S. Knauth        +1 (617) 891-5555    gsk@marble.com

   Please send proposals for participation, paper abstracts and texts
via e-mail to the Chair <kuz@ivann.delta.msk.su>.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Knauth, Marble Associates, Inc.                Member BCS-NeXT, LPF
gsk@marble.com, (617) 891-5555                             Standard Disclaimers
From: chuanli@riches.rutgers.edu (chuan li)
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
Subject: HELP
Date: 2 Jan 93 20:34:58 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Where can I find out more about ACM? (i.e. membership,
publications ..., etc.)
 Thanks.
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
From: cp78065@csie.nctu.edu.tw (Ji-Tzay Yang)
Subject: Re: QUESTION about ACM Programming FInals
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:59:12 GMT

 The results of the Taiwan region:

    1: Chiao-Tung Univ. (Taiwan)

 Another team representing Asian region will join the contest if the Asian
 region contest is held.

--

 ============================================================================
 Ji-Tzay Yang                         |  E-mail : cp78065@csie.nctu.edu.tw
 Dept. of Comp. Science & Info. Eng.  |           u7817065@cc.nctu.edu.tw 
 National Chiao-Tung University       |  Tel    : 886-35-712121 ext 6430 
 Hsin-Chu, Taiwan ROC                 |  Fax    : 886-35-721486 
 ============================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: speaker recognition
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:18:29 GMT

In article <18DEC199212464205@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov>, tencati@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov  writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.135829.29641@umbc3.umbc.edu>, themos@umbc5.umbc.edu (Mr. Themos Pentakalos; ADMIN-COMP) writes...
>>Hello everyone.
>> 
>>I was wondering if all the hundreds of speakers that come to DECUS
>>to present their ideas, get some type of recognition. (eg. a "thank-you"
>>letter, a certificate of participation, etc.)
>> 
...
> I don't know which sessions you gave, but I know my SIG (Security) 
> routinely gives such recognition, but unless you're a Seminar 
> presenter, you have to ask for the letter.
> 

Maybe this could be changed so all symposium presenters get a letter of thanks
as SOP. This would result in a single letter, rather than several for speakers
who give talks for several SIGS. cc the boss on request.

~Paul
From: dsroberts@beckman.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: How DECUS does business (Was Re: EXECUTION of DECUS Standards)
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:53:25 PDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Beckman Instruments

In article <1992Dec22.163158.26676@tin.monsanto.com>, lesnyd@monsanto.com (Larry E. Snyder) writes:
> I agree that it is very unlikely that this could happen. Perhaps the 
> symposia won't bee too big in the future, considering our economy...
> 
> Good answers, Terry. I guess I sometimes yearn for the 70s symposia that
> seemed smaller and more intimate. 
> 
Seems like a distinct possibility that you might get them :-(

So, neither of you listed the library as one of the products of DECUS you use? 
Ah, connectivity :-)
-- 
   Don Roberts                   Internet:  dsroberts@beckman.com
   Beckman Instruments, Inc.     Phone:     714/961-3029
   2500 Harbor Bl. Mailstop X-12 FAX:       714/961-3351
   Fullerton, CA  92634          Disclaimer:  Blame me, not Beckman.
   "Abortion isn't a 'choice', it's the slaughter of the innocent"
From: lesnyd@monsanto.com (Larry E. Snyder)
Subject: Re: EXECUTION of DECUS Standards
Organization: DSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:31:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.155222@mccall.com>, tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot) writes:
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the size of a symposium is one of its major benefits. The more
> people you have, the more information exchange there is. If we had 2 symposia
> instead of one, and provide all the same sessions at each, you double the
> expense to both DECUS and DEC. Even if you could get DECUS to do this, DEC
> wouldn't. So what would happen is that each would have fewer sessions, thus
> reducing their value. 
> 
I believe that the size of the symposium does reach a point of diminishing
returns. The size of a symposium can now be overwhelming to an individual.
And, believe it or not, it's easier to remain in the background and not talk
to ANYBODY now than it was back in the days of 1800 attendees! If I go as
a system manager, there are THOUSANDS of other system managers, and I can
be intimidated both by the knowledge of others and by the sheer size of
sessions. Many of us aren't shy, that's true, but then, many are.

I agree that it is very unlikely that this could happen. Perhaps the 
symposia won't bee too big in the future, considering our economy...

I'm glad you have no trouble getting funding, Terry, but such is not the
case for me. I have had to push to get to attend one symposium a year.

Good answers, Terry. I guess I sometimes yearn for the 70s symposia that
seemed smaller and more intimate. 

Larry
From: gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald W. Lester)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: EXECUTION of DECUS Standards
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:37:06 GMT
Reply-To: gwlester@cpu.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computerized Processes Unlimited, Metairie, LA, (504)-889-2784

In article <576@bigmax.UUCP>, folsom@bigmax.UUCP (Al Folsom) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.192557.13119@cpu.com>, gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald W. Lester) writes:
>> 
>> 	It might avoid some confusion, but the statement is **WRONG**!!
>> At least the L&T and 3P SIG chairs are elected by the general membership at
>> their respective Open SIG Steering Committe meetings members (not restricted
>> to leaders) present.  I believe that L&T does put a restriction that DEC
>> employees can not vote, but I'm not sure.
>
>I cannot speak for 3P, but L&T most definately does not elect SIG
>chairs.  Our Policies and Procedures, both the current ones, and the
>version now under review, do not even mention voting.  SIG chairs
>are, in actuality, "nominated" by the outgoing SIG chair, and 
>confirmed by the Executive Committee.  Changes are reached by 
>concensus, with votes of any sort being extremely rare.  To as great
>an extent as possible, L&T maintains a huge steering committee, and
>subject to budget constraints, keeps as many of them involved in 
>SIG affairs as possible.
>
>Note that I fully support this mechanism, I am not in any way
>criticizing it.  As long as it is easy to volunteer your time to 
>the SIG, and access to the steering committee is open, it produces
>a smoother operation, and tends to discourage DECUS politicians, as
>opposed to actual workers, from trying to control the SIG.
>
>The mechanism does, however, at least present the appearance of a 
>less representative democracy in SIG Council and the MC.
>

	Al, I stand corrected.  I went back and read the P&Ps and it
does not mention elections.  For some reason I thought that we took that
section of the 3P SIG P&P's from L&T.  It must have come from someplace else.
I hope whatever SIG they were they speak up.

>> 
>> 	You are very much a minority.  The news letter subscription was about
>> 2% of the membership and a good number of subscribers had/have either or both
>> DECUServe or DCS accounts.
>>
>
>Several people have expressed their concern to me over the demise
>of the newsletter. 2% of the membership is *roughly* 1000 subscribers,
>which is very low, but many of those subscribers really wanted it.
>They HAD to, to fight through all the barriers we put in their way to
>maintaining their subscriptions!  DECUS killed the newsletters, but
>not in one swell foop this past fall, but gradually over the last
>five years through poor marketing, bad renewal policies, and lack
>of support.
>

	My 2% was based on a set of notes I had that said we had roughly 2,000
paid subscribtions and a membership of 60,000 (which is really 3.33...%, but I
did the math in my head).  To get 1,000 subscribers you used a membership
figure of 50,000.  If we are down to 50,000 members the figure should be 6%.