HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Low trombones [Re: Oboe family]
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:26:50 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick) wrote:
> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>> I seem to recall reference to a contrabass tbn in b-flat which would
>> probably be playable down to below that A (my speculation).  However,
>> the slide would have to be VERY long, or crooked.
> Cecil Forsyth (happens to be on my desk) gives a quotation from _Das
> Rheingold_ where Wagner drives the contrabass down to the pedal E, more
> than an octave below the staff.  "With regard to the Double-Bass-Trombone,
> it may be questioned whether in its manufacture the limits of human lungs
> and lips have not been overstepped."

I once heard a radio talk about Villa-Lobos in which he was described
as being a remarkably careless orchestrator.  As well as the usual stuff
of asking instruments to play notes well outside the range of physical
possibility, he once asked the trombone to produce a two-octave downward
glissando.  The speaker speculated on what a "Villa-Lobos trombone" would
have to look like to achieve that...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)
Subject: Re: Nice recording of Haydn's #103
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:08:18 GMT

Charles Packer writes:

> I heard on the radio a recording of Haydn's Symphony #103
> ("Drum Roll") conducted by Charles Mackerras. The orchestra
> was St. Lukes something-or-other. It sounded like period
> instruments...but the performance was so, ahem, musical!
> Anyone know whether this is a CD, and if so, is it a
> re-issue, and what's the label? If it's a new recording,
> does it mean Mackerras might be doing more Haydn symphonies?

It's a CD on the Telarc label.  I believe it is their second release of
Haydn symphonies with Mackerras conducting the Orchestra of St. Luke's.
It is new, not a reissue, and I believe you can look forward to more of
the same from this collaboration of orchestra, conductor, and recording
company.
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:5681 rec.arts.dance:277
From: kh@litsun.epfl.ch (Mark S.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.arts.dance
Subject: Art & Technique (was about the Nutcracker)
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:57:14 GMT
	<1992Mar26.131625.26785@nuscc.nus.sg> <2033@cypress.UUCP>
	<1992Apr8.070957.28176@novell.com>
Reply-To: kh@litsun.epfl.ch
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
In-reply-to: nerone@alessia.dei.unipd.it's message of 8 Apr 92 07:09:57 GMT


>Performed by somebody
>competent it is incredibly beautiful to watch.  And being a
>frustrated dancer and choreographer, I can appreciate the technical
>skill it requires as well.

>> I disagree with what you said. Ballet is not only made of technical
>> skillness!  Technique is only an instrument on the service of the
>> art, nothing more.  If you think about Fokine's coreographies you
>> can find in them perhaps the best expression of human feelings.
>> Let's think about the symbol of ballet : "Death of the Swan" . It
>> was created for a great dancer (Anna Pavlova) who had a very bad
>> tecnique, but when she danced the Swan she was increadibly
>> artistic. Let's talk about "Petrouchka" : it was created for
>> Nijinskj who had an extraordinary technique, but in that ballet he
>> doesn't use technique because that wasn't the point. Art is not
>> technique!

>> 				Elena


I think both previous authors might mean about the same thing.

How about this: You need a certain level of skill to perform, but in a
performance something else than the technique should come across. 

If you have to focus on technique, you cannot express yourself. Or
vice versa if you are expressing yourself you use your technique in a
natural way, without thinking too much. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Soekarjo				Living in a postcard

postcards to 	la Maison Rose		e-mail to	kh@litsun.epfl.ch
		Ch. des Clos 53		fax		+41'21'693'41'11
		CH-1024 Ecublens	voice		+41'21'693'37'02
		****europe*****
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
    <1992Apr8.221929.21158@scubed.com> <1992Apr9.173358.29008@unx.sas.com> 
    <1992Apr11.005446.8595@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:43:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Originator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 484

In article <1992Apr11.005446.8595@acsu.buffalo.edu>, henning@acsu.buffalo.edu (Karl inflexible Henning) writes:
|> 
|> Think how many photographs of crucifixes in apple juice
|> coulda been paid for by /one/ of those stealth bombers ... :-)

As a genuine work of art, I'll take the stealth bomber.
-- 
Gary H. Merrill  [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]
SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC  27513 / (919) 677-8000
sasghm@unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:31:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.154226.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> > The list of instruments at the beginning of my scores of the _Ring_
> > (which I presume to have been provided by Wagner himself) includes "4

> 
> What is the basis for your presumption?  what edition is it?

It's the Eulenberg, but it's from the same plates as the Schott that I
used to get out of the library -- I think the original publication
date was 1880s, but I couldn't swear to it (scores of music in the
public domain tend to conceal this information). The "basis" for my
presumption is sheer speculation, based in part on the very precise
description of the numbers of instruments on each part and the
expected doublings (e.g., that the tubas are to be played by the 5th
through 8th horn players).

> 
> > ordinary tenor-bass trombones; 1 contrabass trombone". Trombonists can
> 
> Was the rotary valve introduced to the trombone that early to create the
> tenor/bass?  I would have guessid it was later but I do not really know.

I have no idea. I'm only quoting (from memory, so possibly slightly
inaccurately). I do know that there's no distinction between "tenor"
and "bass" trombones (as there is for the tubas).

> > The "contrabass trombone"
> > (which he uses sparingly) has a lower range (lower than any
> > non-Russian bass voice :-)), although not as low as the "contrabass
> 
> How low is that?   ;)

Well, again, my scores are at home and I'm not, but I think it gets
down around the A below the bass staff.
	Robert
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)
Subject: Mahler VIII
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 06:17:54 GMT

With all the recent discussion of people's favorite recordings of Mahler's
symphonies, I'm curious to hear what people think of a very recent
recording of the Eighth by Shaw, Atlanta, and a bunch of choruses on the
Telarc label.  The one thing it has going for it (at least for the cost-
conscious) is that it has been put onto a single CD.  I haven't followed
the thread in its entirety, so it's possible that this recording has
already been discussed.  I would expect this recording to be at the very
least acceptable and possibly exceptional, given Shaw's reputation.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: music from movie Solaris
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:39:54 GMT

daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao) writes:

>Could someone tell me what was the opening music for Tarkovsky's
>science fiction movie Solaris?  I think the music
>was written by Bach.  

	I know that the organ chorale "Ich ruf' zu dir, Jusu Chris
from the Orgelbuchlein is used alot in the movie. I don't recall
if it is also used in the begining.

>Tarkovsky eventually immigrated from the Soviet Union to the West.
>There are several versions of Solaris with subtitles or voiceovers
>in English, none of them being the original movie in  its entirety.
>I hope the opening music is the same for all versions.

Bruce Salem

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack12.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Info requested on Theremin
In-reply-to: davisonj@en.ecn.purdue.edu's message of 7 Apr 92 03:40:48 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Apr7.034048.7361@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:32:39 CDT

John M Davison writes:

   >The Theremin is probably the
   >first electronic instrument.

	   Not true.  That distinction does to Thaddeus Cahill's Teleharmonium
   [sp?].  Consult a recent _Computer_Music_Journal_ for someone's dissertation
   regarding the device.

Where does the Ondes Martinot fit in chronologically?

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
GEnie: C.BREWSTER7
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Theme in Handel and Mozart
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
 <1992Apr14.183725.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
 <1992Apr16.155527.5511@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:39:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.155527.5511@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
 wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.183725.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>, 
dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>> In article <1992Apr14.200619.26812@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>,
 rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (John Rickert) writes:

>> BTW, am I the only person in the world who finds Messiah a monumental
>> bore? (To listen to, that is, I've always enjoyed singing it.)
>I agree. I think there are two reasons. Firstly the appalling tradition of
>massacring Handels pretty delicate writing with huge Symphony Orchestras and
>500 piece choruses with 30 tenors who can't sing.

Right.  Now...

> Thank goodness this is going
>out. But more importantly, and less avoidably, Handel was an appallingly
>unimaginative orchestrator. His oboes do no more than double the fiddles, and
>the trumpets are just used for the obvious effects (The trumpet shall sound).

Unlike huge Symphony Orchestras...

The idea of Handel the unimaginative orchestrator is enough to send me
reeling.  

For one thing, the oboes only SOMETIMES double the first violins, and
Handel, the master of the Baroque orchestra, knew exactly when to use
them, and when not to.

Next, look at thevariety of textures in the violin section.  

Then keep in mind that Handel intended for the work to be played by a
small orchestra.  I'm sure he didn't know what was available in Dublin.

Finally, remember that Handel had to write for orchestras that spoke the
musical language of the day.  Winds were not independent members of the
orchestra, except in solistic roles; the oboe-and-horn based sound was
only beginning to come in, and not in England or Ireland, and not among
older composers.  

Handel was quite simply one of the great orchestrators of his century,
if you examine his use of instruments in other works.  Besides, the
*withholding* of the trumpets until Hallelujah is utterly brilliant, as
is his use of them in Amen.

>Does anyone know if Mozart's arrangement did much for this, and whether it's
>available in a recording inspired by the authentic crowd, or even by them. I

Several.  Also some with Huge Symphony Orchestras.  

Roger
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cheryl Studer was Re: Kathleen Battle; other sopranos
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:01:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr9.150148.27982
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <28670@brahms.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <1992Mar30.125343.12498@lloyd.Camex.COM> chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
>

I have been impressed by three sopranos I heard for the first time over the
radio on live Saturday afternoon broadcasts from the Met:

Marilyn Mims
Ruthann Swenson
and something like Kathy Esebian.

These voices seemed to me to be fine natural instruments
with excellent technique.  I was particularly glad
to hear sopranos without edgy high notes, nasal
middle registers, or wobbles (faults I have noticed frequently
in the last decades).

Can anyone tell me more about these singers, their
experience, or their training?

Richard
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Info requested on Theremin
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:11:55 GMT
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Apr9.121608.1718@escc.com> fredg@escc.com (Fred Goldrich) writes:
>	The Theremin was named after its inventor, Leon T., who came up
>with it in the 1920's.  It is played by moving one's hands back and 
>forth -- the right hand controls the pitch and the left hand, the volume.

The Theremin is featured in lots of 50's B-movies in all the "tower"
scenes.  I believe it appears in more than one Hitchcock film, and of
course, Mel Brooks appropriated it for hie Hitchcock spook "Hign Anxiety."

I built one of them a few years ago, but I never bothered to get good enough
at playing it to be able to produce anything recognizable :-)


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Best Mahler cds?
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:38:08 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Apr1.130902.25203@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> mark@cita.toronto.edu writes:

>[ moi ]

>| 10: Chailly/BerlinRadio (London)

>Hmm...  I wasn't aware of this one.  Is it a "complete" Tenth, or just
>the adagio?  If the former, whose "realization"?  The standard DC one,
>or one of the lesser-known attempts?

The Deryck Cooke performing version, in its revised form.  I think the
2-CD set includes Transfigured Night as a filler.

Chailly seems to have a real affinity for Germanic music of this period;
his Gurrelieder is also tops.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Help, which instrument?
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:59:00 GMT
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In article <1992Apr15.190811.2629@sequent.com>, danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs) writes...
H. Merrill) writes:
>When played well, I find the saxophone a beautiful instrument, and
>there is a body of work, both original and transcribed, for sax
>quartet that sounds very nice to me.  

Having studied both sax, (with a big-band sax man who said my classical
clarinet work was ruining me,) and clarinet, (with a Chicago symphony clarinet
man who said the same about my sax studies,) I must agree.

In addition to music composed for saxophone or quartet some very unlikely
transcriptions also come out fine. I remember in point Light Cavalary overture
for sax quartet that really was beautiful.

Also the Paris Saxophone Quartet does some very interesting stuff with Bach.

+---_      Frank R. Borger - Physicist     Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
|__|_)  Michael Reese  - Univ. of Chicago  Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
|  | \ _  Center for Radiation Therapy
|     |_)   2929 South Ellis Avenue        Bachelor; A man who never made the
      |_)   Chicago, Illinois 60616        same mistake once! 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,sci.lang
From: pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Music on the PBS History of Computers program
Organization: /local/lib/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:31:44 GMT


Last night PBS broadcast the first of a 5 part series on the
history of computers.

The program began and ended with some very interesting sounding
music for soprano and a small number of instruments (i can't
remember which!) that seemed both unusual and captivating.

can anyone who saw the program identify the music?

thanks,
peter mark
pdm@cs.uoregon.edu
From: mccombt@cs.rpi.edu (Todd McComb)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Organization: Rensselaer Mathematics Dept., Troy NY
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:28:02 GMT

Well, I don't know.  It's nice that some people support the arts
in whatever way they think is appropriate.  That'll probably keep
happening, whether or not those people include "the government"
per se.

For my own part, I am so concerned that I be able to compose exactly
what I want to compose for my own reasons that I support myself by a
totally non-musical job.  It seems reasonable to me.

-- 
Todd McComb                             mccombt@turing.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.1.1]
From: davisonj@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John M Davison)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Info requested on Theremin
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:40:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Apr7.034048.7361
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

>The Theremin is probably the
>first electronic instrument.

        Not true.  That distinction does to Thaddeus Cahill's Teleharmonium
[sp?].  Consult a recent _Computer_Music_Journal_ for someone's dissertation
regarding the device.

        By the way, Leon Teremin is still alive, and was recently interviewed
by _Keyboard_ magazine.  He has one hell of a story to tell.

davisonj@ecn.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Music in Silence of the Lambs
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:02:00 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <00959092.71C5C860@vms.csd.mu.edu> 352gmillerm@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>Could someone please tell me what is the title and composer of the piano 
>music played in the Silence of the Lambs in the scene in which Dr. Lecter
>kills the guard?  I have been told that it is by Scarlatti, but does anyone
>know for sure?  I would really appreciate an answer.  Thanks.

It's from Bach's Goldberg Variations -- one of the earlier variations.  I
can't remember exactly which one.  In the book, it is specified as a Glenn
Gould recording, although it doesn't say which one.  The performance used
in the movie, however, is not by Gould.  I wonder why.

-chris
From: dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:12:42 GMT
Organization: Mathematics, Vanderbilt University, Nashville

I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
series?

****************************************************************************
Kirk Menser                         A mathematician, like a painter or poet,
dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu  is a maker of patterns.  If his patterns
Department of Mathematics           are more permanent than theirs, it is
Vanderbilt University               because they are made with ideas.
Nashville, TN                                                   -G. H. Hardy
****************************************************************************
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:45:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu> dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:

>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
>series?

"The F.B.I.", starring Efrem Zimbalist, Jr.

-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: martino@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Ralph Vaughan Williams
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:48:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: wpi.1992Apr6.154837.20789
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Thanks to everyone who emailed and posted about my questions about RVW.  Seems
he's a lot more well known than I thought.  Also a lot of people have
been recommending Boult as conductor for RVW, but as I looked in the library's
music card cat. here it seems they are old recordings- do they still sound
good on CD?  Noteworthy music has RVW stuff only by Previn and Boult on CD,
I haven't gotten around to visiting any CD stores recently to see what they
have.  Thanks again for all the responses.

Rob

-- 
Rob Martino                          |     (clever or particularly funny
martino@wpi.wpi.edu                  |      philosophical quote here)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Is that all for Bizet ?
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 16:36:47 GMT

In article <0dqUFW_00WBKA47NtJ@andrew.cmu.edu> nsv+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ned S. VanderVen) writes:
>Another opera by Bizet, The Pearl Fishers, is rarely performed, but it
>contains one very fine duet for tenor and baritone. 

Also first-rate are the difficult tenor aria (Je crois entendre encore), the
third act introduction and baritone aria (L'orage s'est calme), and
the soprano-tenor duet (Ton coeur n'a pas compris le mien au
sein de la nuit parfumee).

Two other fine pieces are the soprano aria and the last-act
soprano-baritone confrontation.  The last number is a trio
that reprises the music of the first-act duet that you like.

Richard
From: w39y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Shostakovich's Opera "The Nose"
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:47:53 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University


I have a question about the recording history of Shostakovich's "The
Nose", his first opera based on a short story by Gogol.  It was
written in the early 1930's and is an outlandish piece of music, full
of wisecracks, very unsubtle musical jokes and effects, and is a bizarre
story about a man whose nose decides that "There can be no question of an
intimate relationship between us."

Have any recordings in the west ever been done of this?  My
university's music library has a "DEMONSTRATION DISK--NOT FOR RESALE" 
on hand which seems to be a joint Columbia-Melodiya recording of 
Gennady Rodzevetsky's (excuse awful spelling--don't have it here) 
revival in Moscow in  the mid 70's, but there are no recordings 
listed in any catalog I can find.

Also I have translations of the story, but not of the libretto (the
opera's text is often lifted straight from the short story).  A
transliterated Russian text with English text is probably too much to
ask for.

Also any other suggestions on Shostakovich's music in the days before
the "Chaos instead of Music" Pravda editorial.  I have Sym. 1-4, "Lady
Macbeth of Mtsensk" and am looking for more stuff with his youthful
exuberance, before the world came crashing down.

Thanks much,
Mike Ryan


-- 
Mike Ryan
ryan@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
Astronomy Dept.
Cornell U., Ithaca NY