HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: 5% bugs in ketchup!
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:34:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.150612.4081@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
bf957@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Barry H. Rodin) writes:

>This seems to have implications for the kashrus of ketchup,
>and other vegetable products.

>In a previous article, ar467@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert C. Jamieson) says:

>>Newsgroups: alt.ketchup

Amazing.  They got a diff'rnt news group for _everything_! :-)

>>In article <BrssoF.8qs@ecf.toronto.edu>, ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu
(George Matthew Rice) writes:

>>>Well the point is one of my teacher used to work for Heinz and 
>>>he said that they were allowed to include up to 5% bug in their
>>>ketchup.
>>>   It made sense to me. You would use your best to sell as whole tomatoes 
>>>then next best would be canned, and the dregs of the crop would
>>>be used to make the blood of the Gods.

>>I don't know the exact amount, but yes, this happens in America, too.
>>The Food and Drug Administration (anybody else find it interesting that
>>they lumped these two together?) has a list of the allowable contamination
>>for various foods (write them and they'll give (sell?) it to you).

>>The amounts are much higher for processed foods such as our beloved
>>ketchup.

If you remember the "Book of Lists," one particularly unappetizing list
was of FDA approved allowed impurity levels in various foods.  The only
one I remember off-hand was that there was an acceptable (non-zero)
number of wasp heads per pound of dried figs.  I recall that this book's
first edition came out in the 1970's.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: amir@cc.gatech.edu (Amihood Amir)
Subject: Re: Travel on Tisha B'av
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:00:59 GMT

I believe that the time we follow on holidays is almost always local
time. So starting the fast in Italy, should be Italian time, and ending 
it in NY, should be when it end in NY time.

Notable exceptions that come to mind are:
1) Sefirat HaOmer. Because it says "Usfartem LACHEM".
   I believe there are many Psakim that say if you cross the
   date line, you keep YOUR count, even if it differs from everyone
   else's.
2) Communities on the north or south pole, do not keep Shabbat for
   one year every seven years, rather they follow the time (some opininions
   are Yerushalaim time, and some say the closest Jewish community).

Any other exceptions to the rule of following LOCAL TIME?

--  Ami
					
					-Amihood Amir (amir@cc.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Subject: Bye, for now!
Originator: friedenb@kira.egr.msu.edu
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:18:51 GMT

I have enjoyed reading this newsgroup for the last 8 months.  I was
called today by a Camp outside of Toronto to fill in for their
Mashgiach for the next month.  After my final exam tonight I am
catching a plane. 

I'm sorry that the last 2 weeks have been without my Day By Day In
Jewish History, but my classes have been getting tough.  I'll start
Day By Day again in the beginning of September.

L'hitraot,

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:38:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.204139.26253@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>It doesn't.  Technically, any Jew can perform a circumcision.
>Personally, I would never allow any son of mine to be worked on by a
>person who wasn't qualified, though.  Your opinion may differ, though.
>
 Which brings us to the question...

How do mohels get their first gigs?  I had heard that they practice on
stillborns, but even so, a real live kicking baby is probably a different
experience.

Has anybody ever been told when arranging for a mohel "Uh.  I'm new to
this so you get a special rate."?  Or something similar?. 

I really am curious.

-- 
Dan Shimoff               Am Yisrael          \ 
Phone: (212) 602-6798     B'Eretz Yisrael       A recipe for success.
Address: shdan@tudor.com  Al Pi Torat Yisrael / Read any Kook books lately?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: O-C-R Debate
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:48:59 GMT

If one is an atheist, then, he/she does not believe in God, and that's it.
If one is an Orthodox Jew, she/he has a set of rules to follow, and that's it.

However, reading what Daniel says (and what Nora said before), there is an
open door in Reform Judaism to interpret the religious law.
However, we can agree, I hope, that a person grows up in a society, and that
that person absorbs the basis of that socity.
We were not born in a Jewish socity, nor were we born all in the same place.
And, because of that, our view of the world is "contaminated" with values that
are not Jewish but Christian, for example.
If an individual, like Daniel, interprets the law, how can he be sure that
his view is really Jewish, or how can he separate from his analysis those
Christian points of view that he has learned from society? there would not be
much difference between Jews and Christians, after all.
A person is a social entity, and cannot be outside of it, not can he/she 
avoid learining its values.
So, if you do not follow the rules as given, and you can create your own,
how can you be sure that you are a Jew?

AAP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:32:01 GMT

dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
>Seriously, you expect 50% of a Jewish community to send their kids to
>a Jewish day school?  When free education is available in the public
>system?  For me, it's a matter of economics, and to a certain extent,
>principle.  I would hesitate to send my kids (if and when I have any)
>to a Jewish day school because I want them to have contact with other
>people of different races and religions.

I want my kids to have the same.  That's one reason I do not restrict
my friends to Orthodox Jews.  My kids will see that I don't discriminate
and, I hope, they will deport themselves in like manner.  On the other
hand, I will give my children a complete Jewish education as well, without
trying to rationalize the alternative.  If school is the only way your
kids can have contact with people of different races and religions --
or different levels of observance within Judaism, for that matter --
then perhaps you should reexamine the way you interact with people
unlike yourself.  They'll learn more from your example, and less from
being deprived of their own distinct heritage.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:32:17 GMT
Summary: Reluctance to exercise in Judaism


In article <9207271357.AA08783@nysernet.ORG>, 
           <VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL> writes...

>I would be very interested in why Michael Lax opposes the death penalty
>based on Jewish values.

****************

Jewish sources refer to any Sanhedrin that condemned more
than one man in 70 years to death as a "hanging court."

For the most dramatic reading of reluctance to exercise
the death sentence, read the stalling procedures outlined
in great detail in the Chapter [4?] of TB Sanhedrin, Aherei
Nigmar ha-Din [After the sentence has been passed].

It is true that the tradition here refers to Jews only; but
it also was written at a time when Jews probably only had
limited powers to carry out legal executions.



__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
Jerusalem
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:42:53 IST
From: Shaul Wallach <F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: hamsa (hand symbol)
 <1992Jul28.143046.9669@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>

In article <1992Jul28.143046.9669@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.023603.2370@cbnews.cb.att.com>
>ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>
>>I just received the latest (August 27) Jewish Book News and the main
>>selection is "The Encyclopedia of Jewish Symbols" by Ellen Frankel
>>and Betsy Platkin Teutsch, 1992.
>
>>" HAMSA (chet mem samech hay)  The hamsa -- from the Semitic root
>>meaning "five" -- is a hand-shaped amulet worn to ward off the Evil
>>Eye.
>
>I wonder how the older spelling, with a final shin, changed to a
>samech....
>--
>Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
>        Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

     It never changed to a samekh in the first place. I think the
reason it is pronounced "hamsa" is that it comes from the Arabic
"khams" meaning "five", and in the Arabic word the sin takes the place
of the Hebrew shin, there being no samekh in the Arabic alphabet.
The Hebrew shin and the Arabic sin interchange in many roots, as
well as vice versa.

     The Hebrew root with a samekh instead of a shin has a completely
different meaning (see, for example, Genesis 6:11,13; 16:5 where it
means "injury" or "violence"), not to mention the Arabic Muslim
organization Hamas (actually an abbreviation for Harakat al-Muqawama
al-Islamiyya or Islamic Resistance Movement, so it doesn't really
count).

     The expression "hamsa" is also used simply as an exclamation
meaning "beli `ayin hara`" ("without the evil eye") in which the
meaning is derived from the idea expressed in the amulet, even though
no amulet is intended. Thus my wife, who is from Persia, always
uses the word in this sense and I never understood its origin
until it was posted here on the net.

Shalom,

Shaul
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew vocabulary cards and sunday school teaching
Date: 22 Jul 1992 17:20:41 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Jul22.103120.8849@uoft02.utoledo.edu> wfraker@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
->I visited a family in Pittsburgh quite awhile ago, and while
->I was there they showed me a set of Hebrew vocabulary cards. There
->was at least 300 in the set. I've looked all over and can only
->find the same type of cards for Russian, German, French and Spanish.
->Does anyone know where I could get a set in Hebrew?

Yes!  Last year I purchased a set of these at the bookstore of Saint
John's College (no religious affiliation) in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
(Sorry.  I couldn't resist.)  Toledo must be big enough to contain a
foreign language bookstore, however.

Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Multiple Hechshers
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:24:47 GMT

In article <2353@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <1992Jul30.010817.19798@cs.ubc.ca> drukier@crisium.geop.ubc.ca (Gordon Drukier) writes:
>
>> Anyone for a Jewish back-to-the-land movement?
>
>I've heard of something like that around this part of the world.
>Can't quite recall it's name but it will come to me, I'm sure.

  I didn't know there was an official name already for the tent
  cities.
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D. Thorne)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: abortion for Noachides
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:18:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


    Hillel writes:

| There are several implications to this pill
| 
| 1.  The pill works by preventing the fertilized egg from implanting
| in th womb.
| 
| 2.  This seems to imply that it MUST be used within the 40 day
| limit referred to earlier.
| 
| 3.  If the above is true then it would seem to fall under the laws
| of "birth control" rather than of "abortion"
| 
| Does anyone know precisely if the restriction on the pill usage are
| as I think.  What would be its effect once the fertilized egg has
| been implanted in the womb wall and at various times during the pregnancy?
| 
| 

       Would this be considered similar to an IUD?  RU486 
   competes with progesterone to prevent the survival of the placenta. It
   can be used throughout the pregnancy.  Of course it would be unwise to
   use RU486 too late since the blood loss (as in miscarriage) can be fatal.

		Richard Thorne rdt@med.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:35:48 GMT

In article <dfs.711993117@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

>I grew up in St. John's, Newfoundland, where there were probably 20
>Jewish kids in the whole city.  We were lucky to get a rabbi to come,
>let alone hope for a day school.  ("Looxury, me son... " :-))
>Ironically, I think that being the only Jewish kid for miles probably
>strengthened my Jewish identity and commitment rather than weakening
>it.  I guess different people react in different ways.

What happened to this other Jewish kid?  Did he also have an afternoon
school education?  What is his adentification (and, less importantly, his
affiliation) now?
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Distribution: na
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:09:20 GMT

ml = lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
mg = mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)

mg: Last week's Torah portion, Pinchas, which was read at synagogues all
mg: over the world seems to support the death penalty for the described
mg: circumstance.

ml: And what about "Thou Shalt Not Kill"?  Last time I checked, _that_
ml: came from the Bible, too.  And while supporters of the death penalty
ml: can play nifty semantic games which somehow differentiate between the
ml: meaning of "kill" and "execute", both actions are the taking of human
ml: life.

It seems to me, given that both "don't murder" and examples of capital
punishment are found in the very same Bible, that these "semantic
games" are required if one is to deal with the entire document rather
than selected excerpts.

But we are not playing semantic games.  The word used is "murder".  I
think you are basing your view on an inaccuracy found in many English
translations of the Torah.

We are allowed by the Torah to kill in self-defense, we are allowed to
go to war in self-defense, we are allowed to execute criminals who
deserve it.  I prefer that we do each of these as little as possible,
but that is a long way from calling any of these murder.

BTW, Pinchas doesn't exactly speak about capital punishment, but
vigilantism (acceptable only in very rare circumstances, even rarer
than the death penalty), but there are other examples in the Torah.

I know that there is no color named gray on this net, but my feeling
is that capital punishment ought to be reserved for the most extreme
cases (once in seven or seventy years, for example).  Since I don't
trust society to do this, I vote against candidates who support the
death penalty (or for the one who is more opposed than his or her
opponent).

I find support for my view, not in the opinion of Rabbi Akiva and
Rabbi Tarfon who objected to applying the death penalty in any
circumstance, but in the statement that the Sanhedrin ceased applying
the death penalty because there were too many murders.  This had
already happened by the time of these two Rabbis - they said "had we
been there (when the death penalty was applied, but rarely) no one
would have been executed".  Their opponents also agreed (or at least
their dissent was not recorded) with the decision to stop applying the
penalty.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very Czarish hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.ORG (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:38:48 GMT

arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
 >>
>> And why would that have any bearing on a person needing an apartment
>> there for a few monthes ?

>The first followup actually trying to make a point...

Somehow, Yigal's attempted point escapes me.  Could it be that he
prefers Jerusalem revert to the status it once shared with Berlin,
that of a divided city with barbed wire separating the the parts?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<LERNER.92Jul31093324@division.cs.columbia.edu>
	<1992Jul31.164438.28347@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:28:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.164438.28347@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
>>
>> Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
>> Path: cs.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ncar!uchinews!quads!rivk
>> From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
>> Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
>> Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
>> Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
>> References: <84815@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Jul30.204110.17057@midway.uchicago.edu> <LERNER.92Jul31093324@division.cs.columbia.edu>
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:44:38 GMT
>>
>> In article <LERNER.92Jul31093324@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>> >>In article <1992Jul30.204110.17057@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
>> >>I can think of several things the Orthodox do that Reform thinks is
>> >>wrong: not holding women to the same ritual obligations and privileges
>> >>as men is the most obvious one. Eating meat from animals that, while
>> >>they may have been slaughtered according to the requirements of kashruth,
>> >>were not treated in a humane fashion when they were alive, is another
>> >>example.
>> >>
>> >  What is this allegation of inhumane treatment of animals?  Are you
>> >  talking about veal?  So why does the butcher have a sign telling
>> >  people not to eat veal because of how it is cared for?   
>>
>> Veal; most chicken in the United States; virtually all milk in the United
>> States. And a sign at the butcher's that suggests something is different
>> from considering it one of the basic laws of kashruth.
>>
>> >/M
>>
>>	   -Nora

This is a complaint about the entire meat industry in the US.  I do not think
we can solve it in one piece.  It is certainly not due to the Orthodox that
animals do not have it a good as you'd like.
--
/M
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Date: 26 Jul 1992 17:57:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul24.165949.5732@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan) writes:
# In article <1992Jul24.155128.11311@nynexst.com>, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:
# |> 
# |> In article <1992Jul24.131308.6019@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
# |> > In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
# |> > 
# |> > >Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.
# |> > >--
# |> > >Yigal Arens
# |> > 
# |> > Isn't USC in US-occupied Mexican territory?
# |> > -- 
# |> No, Sam, it's in the European-occupied Native American territories.
#
>No, both of you are wrong.  It is Human-occupied Buffalo territories.

Actually, the dinosaurs were there long before any of these mammal-type 
critters, so if it belongs to anybody, it belongs to the dinosaurs' descendents
who have been living there peacefully ever since.

Wait a minute.  Maybe Yigal isn't living in occupied territories after all. . .

					Richard Schultz
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Kosher insects (was: Re: 5% bugs in ketchup!)
Date: 26 Jul 92 02:11:08 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: friedenb@kira.egr.msu.edu

In article <2320@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <memo.539907@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) writes:
>
>>Are not bugs considered "Nosein Ta'am Lifgam" [give off a spoilt
>>taste]?
>
>For all we know, they may taste good.
>
>Or maybe they taste like chicken ...

I heard once (I'm sure that someone will be happy to let me know if I
am wrong) that there once existed a particular kind of grasshopper or
cricket which was kosher.  I heard (again, I question my memory on
this subject) that no one is quite sure of how to differentiate this
particular type from other similar insects.  That specialty (of
selecting the kosher insect) died with an old sect of Ethiopian Jews.

Does anyone have any info on this?  Advanced apologies if this is a
farce.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University