From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:45:50 GMT

I will respond to Mr. Rached Zantout.

First let me start by saying that this article was written not to cause separation and
religious conflicts. I happen to be Christain in the sense I perscribe to the teaching
of Jesus Christ as a man. I don't know that he possed any Goddely powers at least there
is no major evidence especially with the recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I beleive that all religions are created by Men. You call your God Allah, Christains
Call him Allah, Jews call him Yehwa. I ask you this question? Does this God which is
the same God really care how you worship him, and whether you should kill in his name
as has haapened in history?.

My evidence of this, is all the recent findings as I have indicated previously. Look at
the epic of Gilgamish, many of the things there are closely paralled to the things in
Jewish and christain religions. My understanding of Islam is that it shares many things
with those two religions. Read the torah, you will find many missing arguments.
Furthermore, the Aramaic people around Damascus believed in Mono-theism thay had a God
called Eil, granted he was an animal. However, many religions at that time did so
including at times the Jews.
 
|>
|> Mr. Faris,
|> Can you give us references to those christians GENERALS that leads the prophet's
|> armies ?????
|> For your knowledge (which after reading your article I doubt exists) non-muslims
|> were NOT allowed to fight with an Islamic army. Jihad at those days was done by
|> MUSLIMS only. 
|> Also as a lesson in History for you, the land which is now Palestine, Syria,
|> Lebanon, Iraq and Iran as well as the other Islamic countries were opened after
|> the death of the prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). So are you saying that he
|> hired them after being dead ???????
|> For your information also NO ONE CAN BE FORCED TO CONVERT TO ISLAM. I don't know
|> why some of our christian brothers and sisters do not understand that. The rule
|> is very clear in the Quran :

It is my understanding that Khaled Bin Alwaleed was a Christian.

Also Christians and all minorities were discriminated agianst in the middle East, I
will give you an example, Just early in this century the Alawite minority groups were
forced to be slaves, farmers, and were killed where ever they were found by Muslims.
This is the present cause of pres. Assad and his minority group to have a grip on the
political system in Syria, and the fact he is primarly surounded by Alawites. 
|> LA IKRAHA FIDDIN
|> 
|> It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah (II) after (Ayat Alkursi). 
|> Were Muslims to convert people by force, you wouldn't find any non-muslim
|> nowadays in the middle east. Instead for Muslims their duty is not to force
|> people to any religion but make clear the truth (i.e. Islam) to people, whoever
|> accepts it is from them and whovere doesn't then he/she is left to his/her own
|> religion.
|> 
|> 
|> Well, about what country are you talking ? Since this is soc.culture.LEBANON I
|> assume you are talking about LEBANON. Well the president of the republic is
|> CHRISTAIN, the army cheif is CHRISTAIN, CHRISTIANS had a majority in the
|> parliament, now they have equal seats as do muslims. Then can you explain how
|> they have been alienated from being involved directly and have control over their
|> destiny ? I guess Muslims and Christians in Lebanon messed up their destiny.

|> 
|> History Mr. Faris .... History, please go and read History,
|> How would you explain tribes fighting each other (like Al-Aous and Al-Khazraj of
|> Madinah) and having those great wars between them (Like Dahis Wal Ghabraa) that
|> killed many of them. How do you explain the transformation from such a state to a
|> UNIFIED front that was able to defeat both superpowers of its time ?
|> How do you explain centuries of Islamic UNIFICATION of the whole middle east ?
|> According to History Mr. Faris, Muslims became not unified when they left their
|> religion (Allah's Book and the Sunnah of his messenger).

You are Totally Wrong!. People get dischanted because they want freedom, freedom to
worship as they please, to organise as they please, and do what ever they please. No
book, no god, nothing can force people to unite. Only goals and common agendas.
The Islamic rule died because the power of the ruling body became WEAK. This happens in
every civilisation or kingdom. When the SULTAH becomes weak, and people do not want to
be part of that system, it breaks up and shatters as happend after the death of
Mohammed and his Califs.
 
|> Yeah !
|> that's why we have now all over the world SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Yep,
|> Mr. Faris the middle east will be in its Glory just like when CHRISTIANS used to
|> control Europe in the DARK AGES. Yep people will not be treated as political
|> hotdogs but as political slaves, they will be offered paradise to go on a crusade
|> to liberate Jerusalem and kill its inhabitants and make rivers of blood. They
|> will be made to participate in the inquisition to wipe out any non-CHRISTIAN
|> symbol (like what the spanish CHRISTIANS did to MUSLIMS AND JEWS). Yep
|> Christianity has made sciences and technology very advanced, like killing the one
|> that says that the earth is rotate ...
 
You live in a country that separates religion from state. It is also a country based on
CHRISTIANITY not ISLAM. I lived in the US for 19 Years. All the great industrial
nations are CHristians, all muslim nations are third world countries. So DO NOT MAKE A
JOKE OF THAT!!!. IF it wasn't for the western know how and technology, you and I might
still be sheppeards in the desert some where. All middle eastern countries rely on
western technology for their daily lives, and they are christians. Even Isreal has
managed to be come a first world country in less than 50 years. The people of the
middle east were very powerful at one time but the religions have destroyed all of that.
 
|> Woops,
|> Assyrians are christians ? Phoenicians are christians ?  Babylonians are
|> christians ?
|> O.K. well if you consider those christains then what can I say ??

ASSYRIANS are CHRISTIANS TO THIS DAY, AND MOST PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN NORTHERN IRAQ and
SYRIA OF ASSYRIAN and BABOLONIAN BACKGROUND ARE CHRISTIANS. THE LEBANES CHRISTIANS ARE
MOSTLY PHEONICIANS, AND PROBABLY MOST CHRISTIAN SYRIANS WHO COME FROM THE COASTAL AREA
LIKE I AM. These people were not christians at one time, but before the beginning of
ISLAM they were converted to Christianity. The Tribes of Munzer and Ghassan who came
from the Arabian Peninsula were also converted to christianity before Islam.
 
|> Woooooooops 
|> Jews created christianity and Islam ?
|> Well Well Mr. Faris do you really consider yourself a christian ? How about any
|> other christians ? Does this represent your thinking ? Is your religion the
|> invention of JEWS ? Do you really beleive that Mr. Faris ? If I were in your
|> place and I beleived that I would directly convert to Judaism since it seems in
|> your opinion it is the only TRUE religion (all others are invented by JEWS).
|> 
|> Mr. Faris is this a joke or do you really beleive what you wrote ?

I think you must be a joker, a joker is some one who does not beleive history. As I
said ealier MEN CREATE RELIGIONS NOT GODS. I used to share and office with and ISreali,
who put it very nicely. That those who created all these religions and created all this
separation and misery were sitting out in the hot middle eastern sun for too long.
 
|> rached
Keywords: 

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