HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Subject: Anecdote
Reply-To: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:13:25 GMT

In article 46005@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu () writes:

>                                          I remember that Hisenberg (who had
>      actually *failed* Ph.D oral, but, Sommerfeld pushed him thru') had the
>      same difficulty in getting Uncertainity Principle accepted. Einstien had
>      himself stated that.

>     - deb chatterjee
>    (a good samaritan)

Another anecdote on Heisenberg's matrix mechanics:

When Heisenberg developed matrix mechanics, he didn't know anything on matrix. He 
was sick and he was playing around with Quantum Mechanics. He showed his findings
to Born who realized that it was matrix that Heisenberg had used in his formalism.
Actually, credits for present form of matrix mechanics go to Dirac although it's 
still called Heisenberg's matrix mechanics.

Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: dea@rs6117.ecs.rpi.edu (Anirban De)
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh (what about India?)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:38:37 GMT

Samit Banerjee writes:
	"crossed over to India in the last ten years ( Home Minister Arjun Singh
	in the Lok Sabha justifying the deportation of illegal BD in Delhi, 1992)."

India's Home minister is S. B. Chavan
Arjun Singh is the Human Resources Development Minister

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:7022 soc.culture.indian:41794
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh (what about India?)
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:06:54 CST
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: engvms.unl.edu

In article <1h7kahINNlso@hsc.usc.edu>, banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerj> In article <SAHMED.92Dec21120707@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed) writes:
> Brahmaputra (which flows through areas having a much lower density of 
> population) with tha Ganga and not by constructing a reservoir in Nepal
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

 Why not? If that helps all three countries, what is the problem with
that?


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Re: SALA DEB CHATTERJEE KA G*** ME LATH MARO MERE MUSLIM BHAIO
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:50:26 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan2.004605.11838@fuug.fi> an3925@anon.penet.fi writes:

   We F*** your ass in 1971 by killing 1 million Sonar Bangla dogs and bitches
----
Surely something to be proud of, eh? 

BTW, the correct number is 3 million. If you are claiming credit for this
deed [which is novel twist on usual string of "It never happened arguments"]
might as well claim credit for the maximum reported figure.

Naeem
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think there is a good deal of evidence that we thought all along that we
 were a redeemer nation. There was a lot of illusion in our national history.
 Now it is about to be shattered."
		[Reinhold Niebuhr on My Lai massacre]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2)
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
Organization: bnr.ca
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:17:37 GMT

I took part in B'Desh war as a lowly Captain with Sagat Singh's
4 Corps. We were deployed in Tripura, Meghalaya, Assam borders	
since May 1971. The refugees poured into these areas by millions.
We (Indian administration) tried to feed and shelter them. I
still do not know how they survived in such sub-human conditions
General Tikka Khan's "soldiers" were their other choice.
The magnitude of this problem was next to WW II refugees in Europe.

Mukti-Vahini (Freedom fighters) were supported by us. We gave them arms,
training and supervision (by young officers, NCOs). Without our help
there was no possibility of resistance to the atrocities which
Pak army was exacting on the populance. Later we were to find
mass graves of "leaders and intellectuals" in Dacca. Beats me, what
is this muslim "solidarity and brotherhood" they talk about!!!
Enough womem were raped there to make Bosnia look like a side show.

True, we would not have moved in Dec 71 had General Yahaha Khan not
ordred is "Israeli" style pre-emptive strike of Northern Indian
airbases. Of course the bext course Indira was to leash a full out
offensive when this opportunity was provided. Most of the casuality
were suffered in Punjab and Jammu sector. B'Desh operation was
relatively textbook type "pincer moves" around the cantonments where
the Pak army had dug in. We left them there and proceeded to occupy 
country. Of course they all handily surrendered once Gen Yahaha Khan
came on the radio broadcast, sounding drunk and boastful.
The Pak army had destroyed most of the infra-structure but civilians
gave us a really good support.

I remember seeing our Brigadier and their Brigadier having beer
togather after the "surrender". There was no mistreatment of prisoners
on our part. God help if we left them in B'Desh. The prisoners (90,000)
were guarded by us and moved to India. They were accorded full Geneva
treatment. I think this can be verified from any ex-POW. I think we
dare not mistreat them for fear of bringing "bad name" to our Regiments.

Later our regiment moved to Kutch and I spent 1 year (until Shimla Agrm't)
in the god-forsaken Thar-parker desert of Sindh.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Subject: Failure of Socialism in Bangladesh
Reply-To: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:32:37 GMT

In article Duw@news.udel.edu, khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame Khalequzzaman) writes:

>                                                                Socialist
> and Communists could be an alternative, since most of them a some sort of
> economic plan (socialist model) and their plans generally favor economic 
> development for poor (Bangladesh being on of the poorest countries needs
> a plan which is capable of changing the fate of its poor people).  The problem
> with socialist alternative in Bangladesh is multiple (which can be discussed
> in a separate article(s), if we think something we should do):
> a) Failure of socialist model in East Europe,
> b). Socialists are the most fragmented with same ideology.  Until 1987, there
> were a total of about 40 groups and subgroups in Bangladesh that claimed to
> preach socialism.  They are not a unified work force.  Often they fight against
> each other.  Therefore, they could never win public support,

I don't think the failure of socialist model in the East Europe has much to do 
with the failures of socialism in Bangladesh. The socialist parties in Bangladesh 
were bound to fail regardless of the fate of socialism in the East Europe.

In my opinion, despite significant popularity, the socialists parties in Bangladesh 
failed to make a statement because their leaders were mostly copy cats. There were 
very little difference between them and the Mullahs. They considered Marxism more 
as a religion than as a political and economic philosophy. Our leftist leaders found 
the preaching of Communism very exciting, but they didn't have the foresight to 
integrate those teachings into Bangladeshi context. Rather they used to look up to 
their guardian angels in Moscow, Beijing, Havana or wherever else. History has 
proved that copying the politics of one country into another doesn't work and hence 
they failed. Since the communist world was divided into many blocks and since our 
leaders were merely following one of the schools, it's not surprising that they 
were divided into so many fractions.

Moulana Bhasani tried to interprete socialism in his own way, where he combined 
socialism and religion together and NAP became an important political force in 
Bangladesh, although later in the 60's their popularity were overshadowed by the 
nationalistic movements of AL.
 
Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University

______________________________________________________________________________________
              We didn't inherit this planet from our parents. It's 
                     been loaned to us by our children.
______________________________________________________________________________________




Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:7014 soc.culture.indian:41758
From: G.S.Samra@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:32:28 GMT
Reply-To: G.S.Samra@lut.ac.uk (GS Samra)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

In article <BzoHvA.G52@uceng.uc.edu> mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:

>>I remember seeing our Brigadier and their Brigadier having beer
>>togather after the "surrender". There was no mistreatment of prisoners
>>on our part. God help if we left them in B'Desh. The prisoners (90,000)
>>were guarded by us and moved to India. They were accorded full Geneva
>>treatment. I think this can be verified from any ex-POW. I think we
>>dare not mistreat them for fear of bringing "bad name" to our Regiments.
>
>We Indians are proud of you.  The treatment the Pakistani soldiers
>recieved shows the high standards of professionalism of the Indian army.
>I have had two uncles serve in the IAF during this war they tell me that
>the Pakistani army behaved like animals in Bangladesh and if our soldiers
>would have had to surrender to them, none would have survived.
>
>Manoj

Is this the same Indian Army soldiers that shot dead at point blank (normally by
putting the bullet through the back of the head) the Sikhs who had either
given themselves up or were 'captured' by the Army during and after the
invasion of the Golden Temple in 1984?
	And is it the same soldiers who set fire to the Sikh reference library
and the Sikh Musuem in the Golden Temple complex, well after they had
taken control of it?
	And is it the same soldiers, who shot dead women and threw into
pool to drown, some of the children they 'captured' in the Golden Temple
invasion?.
	I wonder why the difference in treatment between soldiers of a 
foreign country and one's own civilians?.

G.S.Samra
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: an4333@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Hi Chacha, would you stop your bullshiting
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:29:31 GMT

iHi Chacha salam from salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au, will you stop your bullshit.
Go and have a nice time with donkey Mustafa.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahmada@serss0 (Azeem Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh (what about India?)
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:55:37 GMT
Organization: Florida International University, Miami

In article <1h8279INNq2a@hsc.usc.edu> banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee) writes:
>In article <SAHMED.92Dec22133236@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed) writes:
>
>
>>I
>>proposed above that Mujib's killing only had to do with personal and
>>political conflicts and nothing to do with India. 
>
>Maybe so. But you cannot escape the fact that the people who killed him
>were decidedly anti-Indian and it was they who had been clamouring for
>India to stop playing big brother to BD. 

So you admit that India wants to play Big Brother with Bangladesh?

>
>>I wasn't stating any facts, I was merely extrapolating from your
>>article. I had no clue as to where the Indian made weapons came from.
>
>After every war, it is standard operating procedure to search
>and recover weapons and arms that might have fallen into the wrong hands.

Bangladeshi hands?

>The Indian army was never allowed to do this.
>
>
>Samit
>
>

Azeem
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6995 soc.culture.indian:41733
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh (what about India?)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 16:52:54 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu

In article <Bzonoq.LAJ@fiu.edu> ahmada@serss0 (Azeem Ahmad) writes:

>>Maybe so. But you cannot escape the fact that the people who killed him
>>were decidedly anti-Indian and it was they who had been clamouring for
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>India to stop playing big brother to BD. 


>So you admit that India wants to play Big Brother with Bangladesh?

It wasn't my words. The key word in what I wrote was "they" by which I meant
the forces allied against Mujib's Awami League. These politicians have
for years used their anti-India stance to whip up frenzy and divert the
people's attention from their own failings. Also I suspect that some of these
elements may now be allied with the BNP in their opposition to Sheikh Hasina.

>>After every war, it is standard operating procedure to search
>>and recover weapons and arms that might have fallen into the wrong hands.
>
>Bangladeshi hands?

No, I meant people not in uniform . In the aftermath of the war, many of the 
former soldiers in the Mukti Bahini had become part of the BD armed forces.
Some of them either did not deserve or belong there. 

Samit

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Blesed are the alm-givers
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 07:27:41 GMT

In article <NAEEM.92Dec28004040@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>
>[Following letter appeared in Bengali in Bangladesh weekly "Bichithra", 
> 2 Oct, 92]
>
>"What kind of civilization is this?"
>
>man, took pity on him and threw a biscuit at him. As the beggar rushed to pick
>up the much desired biscuit, a group of urchins, called 'Tokai's [people who
>pick from the streets], jumped for the same biscuit. Seeing so many people
>fight over such a trivial thing, the foreigners sitting in the car burst out 
>laughing. After a while, a few of them began throwing biscuits at the 'Tokai's.
> Tokai's broke off into teams to engage in competitions of strength and
>speed in the blistering sun in order to gather the biscuits. Seeing this scene,
>the foreigners were very amused! This enjoyable game went on for quite a while.
>By then a large audience had gathered to see this game. Seeing their happiness,
>I became quite embarrassed. My question-- what kind of civilization is this?
>
>						Prodip Shaha
>						Savar, Dhaka
>						Bangladesh
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>
>--
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"What can one say about a country where a museum of science in a great city
> can feature an exhibit in which people fire machine guns from a helicopter
> at Vietnamese huts, with a light flashing when a hit is scored? What can one
> say about a country where such an idea can even be considered? You have to 
> weep for this country."
>			[Noam Chomsky, 1967]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


Do not blame the foreign tourists, for they probably did not realise
that what was a game to them was a matter of life and death for the
unfortunate scavengers. Growing up, quite possibly, in middle-class        
suburbia and insulated from the way that life is lived and death is
died in the inhospitable real world of war, starvation and poverty
by a mind-numbing media, they had probably lost the capacity to 
project themselves out of the shallow comfort of their existence.
Weep for them.

 
-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:7113 soc.culture.indian:42041
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Bengali literature for western friends
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:45:49 GMT


Here is a question which I thought I would ask of the wise   
netters who post on this newsgroup.

I have several western friends who have expressed an interest 
to me  about learning more about Bengali literature. I am 
wondering what would be a good book to get them started with,
and I am looking for suggestions.

Ideally, I would like to have an anthology of Bengali literature,
especially poetry, translated in English, but I am not aware of
the existence of any such anthology. Other possibilities I have
thought about are Ketaki Kushari Dyson's translation of Tagore
or Clinton Seely's translation of Jibanananda Dash, but the 
problem with these two is that, because they are limited to 
specific writers, Tagore and Dash (however their greatness),
they would not give a total picture of the wealth of Bengali 
literature.

Please post your suggestions. 

Ashesh dhanyabad,

-Sayan.


-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Failure of Socialism/Reply to Zunaid Kazi 
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:56:20 GMT

In article <Bzq6IL.1pn@news.udel.edu> kazi@brahms.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) pontificates:

>ocialism as a political and economic model is
>severely flawed and impractical.

>The failure of rigid centralized economies attest quite well to this
>fact. 
>

You have got it wrong, Zunaid.   

Socialism does NOT equate to a rigid centralized economy. 
Unfortunately due to a combination of certain historical factors,
this was the way events went in Russia , and therefore it became
erroneouly synonymous with socialism. The centralised economy as
it existed in the Soviet Union was not socialism at all, but a 
clear and simple instance of state capitalism.

A truly socialist economy will be very decentralised, with small
self-governing worker's co-operatives , rather like the independent
woker's soviets that Lenin and Trotsky helped organise all over Russia
in the early years after the Bolshevik revolution. Economics of scale
necessitated the changeover to a planned economy when Russia was besieged
with civil war and threatened by Western capitalist powers. Lenin's
death and Stalin's unfortunate ascendancy to power after purging 
Trotsky, Bukharin and Zinoviev made the planned economy a powerful
fixture, because Stalin realised that a planned economy is easier 
for a one-man dictatorship to control than a decentralised economy. 


>Furthermore, the Marxist jargons of "class less" society, "dictatorship
>of the proletariat" et al are simply Gobbelesian propaganda aimed at
>inculcating support from the disdvantaged segments of a society. 
>

What is wrong with this propaganda, and why do you call it 
Goebbelsian ? I take it to mean that you use "Goebbelsian" as
a synonym for "deceptive". I don't think that any deception was
involved here, because the Bolshevik party was well and truly a
worker's party and came to power not by any  palace coup but
on the crest of massive proletarian support. That the party and the
state were later hijacked by Stalin to serve his nefarious ends 
does not negate the principles by which the October revolution 
was made. Stalinism != Communism. 

>Cheers,
>Zunaid
>
>





-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6925 soc.culture.indian:41547
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
Date: 21 Dec 1992 07:29:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu

>In article <1992Dec21.010145.9914@zip.eecs.umich.edu> bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>>I agree totally with Khaleq. Besides, the reason India supported Bangladesh
>>was not totally devoid of self-interest, i.e. it was not a selfless act on
>>the part of India that Bangladeshis need to be grateful for. I think the
>>reason India acted the way she did was because it was in India's political  
>>and strategic interests to weaken Pakistan, and the dismemberment of Pakistan
>>certainly achieved this. 


I think you are making the GOI the villain of the peace here. If you remember
the events that lead upto the conflict of 1971, you will know that India's
hand was forced by a Pakistan Govt. desperate to divert attention from
it's own failures on the domestic front. 

We faced an influx of thousands of refugees from across the border as a result
of Pakistani brutality and the resulting tension between the two countries
culminated in the Pakistani raid on Indian airfields, December 24,1971 which
started the war.

It is often very easy to say in retrospect that the GOI acted in a manner
that furthered it's geopolitical interests. Looking back on the political
situation of the country vis-a-vis the fragmented Congress party, the moribund 
socio-economic infrastucture (including India's inability to grow it's own 
food and being dependant on massive quantities of US wheat imports) and 
coming on the heels of the 1962 and 1965 military fiascos, I dont think the
country was ready for any kind of conflict.  Again in hindsight, it's 
relatively simple but nonetheless ignorant to claim that India sought the
dismemberment of Pakistan. While that may be eventually what happened, I doubt
if anybody had that foresight considering that the GOI seemed to be playing
a game of self preservation while Chinese and/or American intervention  seemed
imminent. 

While it is probably true that foreign armies cannot liberate countries where
the people are not behind them, the reserve scenario may be also worth
considering especially when you look at Bosnia, the Kurds in Iraq, Cambodia,
El Salvador.

And so while no one expects the Bangladeshi people to grovel, a simple thank
you in the memory of the over ten thousand Indian soldiers who died fighting
not for their own country, but to liberate someone else's, hardly seems too
much to ask for.


Samit




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian