From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: Qur'an, Bible and crucifixion
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:47 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
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babak@orac.crissp.qut.edu.au (Babak Mohajerin) writes:

>1) The Islamic experts show no general agreement on this account

>1.a) TA-BAREE has referred to the substituted one as one of the disciples of Jesus 
>by the name of Sarjoutee; 
>1.b)BAY-ZA-VEE calls him a Jew by the name of Tee-ta-tus. SA'L-ABEE refers to 
>him as a Jew by the name of Fil-tatus. 
>1.c) Some other experts-- including IMAM FAKHR-i RA-ZEE -- refer to him as Judas 
>(the traitor) (Tafseer-i Kabeer, Sharh-i Bey-zavee second part p127, 
>Sharh-i Tabaree seventh part p10.)

>These are the out right leaders in the Schools of Islamic Though and Theology
>and fail to come with a uniform or agreeable account of the event.

   The name of the person has no significance and most probably those
commentators got it from Israelite stories, so in no way has this
anything to do with Islam's position.

>2) On the other hand there are other scholars who have pictured the event 
>in accordance with the Bible:

>2.a) IBN VAD'E' AL-YA'GHOUBEE has narrated the story in accordance with the 
>synoptic Gospels.
>2.b) FAYZ KASHANee interprets the entire account by indicating that although 
>the physical part of the Jesus was crucified but His spiritual part remained
>unharmed and was not killed.

   This is unlikely, because it is common sense that souls can not be
crucified and I do not think that anyone claimed to have crucified
Jesus' (PBUH) soul.

>3) Not only the literal interpretation of 4/155 finds no support in any other
>part of the Qur'an, but there are clear versus indicating the death of everybody
>in general (without exception) and that of Jesus in particular, that is Jesus
>also died:

>{All the Qur'anic translations are from "The Koran", translated by N.J. Dawood,
>Penguin Books, 1968]
>3.a) The Prophets [Al' Anbe'ya'] 21/34 (Surah No: 21, Verse No: 34):
>No man before you [Mohammad] have we made immortal. If you yourself are
>doomed to die, will they live for ever?

>3.b) The Hordes [Zo-mar] 39/30 (Surah No: 39, Verse No: 30):
>You [Mohammad] as well as they are doomed to die.

>3.c)The Prophets [Al' Anbe'ya'] 21/35 & 3/185 & 29/57 :
>Every soul shall taste death

>3.d) Mary [Mar-yam] 19/33:
>I [Jesus] was blessed on the day I was born and blessed I shall be on the
>day of my death.

>3.e) The Table [Maa'edeh] 5/117:
>... and ever since You [God] took me [Jesus] to you

>3.f) The Imrans [Ala Em-raan] 3/55:
>I [God] am about to cause you [Jesus] to die and lift you up to Me. I shall
>take you away from unbelievers.
>{last verse is quite striking since "ascension" is superseded by "death"}

   Does the fact that I am still alive contradict Koran? Judgement day is still
to come, this promise can not be taken to another deadline.

>4) Islamic Traditions also clearly mention the death of Jesus:
>4.a) Book of Ta-ba-ghat from IBNi SA'D Vol 3, from Imam Hassan
>4.b) In Mavaheb Ghas-ta-la-nee Vol 1, P 42 from Mohammad
>4.c) In Commentary of IBN KASEER Vol 2, p 46 from Mohammad
>4.d) In Al-yava-gheet va Al-java-har p 24 from Mohammad

   Do they mention that it already happened? According to Sahih Hadiths and
some interpretations of Koran, Jesus is coming back, so if you take God's
word not to raise the dead before the Judgement day, he has to be still
alive.

>5) From the Writings of the Baha'i Faith:
>[Baha'i Faith is a World Religion, came to its existence some 150 years
>ago. Some of the Baha'is teachings include the oneness of mankind, 
>unity of God, religion as a source of unity and harmony and harmony 
>between religion, science, and reason. Baha'i Faith is the only 
>independent religion which acknowledges the divinity of 
>Qur'an and that of Islam]

>      The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct.
>      The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ
>      was not Crucified.  There is no conflict between the two.
>      (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an
>       individual believer, July 14, 1943, quoted in Lights of
>       Guidance, Second edition, p. 491)

>0)My personal understanding:
>  ^^
>Jews attempted to stop the mission of Jesus, they wanted to put an end
>to the spread of His glad tidings and His new message. They hoped 
>that by killing him His cause would cease to continue, His message will
>be ignored and soon forgotten. Jews believed in vain that by crucifying 
>Jesus His teachings will be faded and His followers scattered. Although they 
>plotted against Him and finally crucified Him, but they couldn't harm 
>the reality of the Christ and His message was spread throughout the whole world. 
>In effect and in reality "they did not slay him, neither crucified him" Qur'an 4/155.

   Despite that Bahaism is not recognised in Islam, the style of interpretation
of Bahaism resembles those of Ahmadis and Xians and is very far from the style
of Koranic interpretations. Also Koran declared that they did not kill him, now
it is obvious that no one kills souls or talks about killing souls and it is
obvious that the Biblical version stated that he died = was killed -- a plain
contradiction.

**