HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karen@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Karen Helt)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How to get daughter more career-minded?
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:00:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

I remember a time I was talking to my high-school counselor about careers.
She said something that really irritated me, that I was "too smart" to be
"just" a housewife/mother, that I would be "wasting myself".  Now I still 
planned on being either an engineer or a doctor, but I disliked her attitude 
toward stay-at-home mothers.  (I ended up being a software engineer.)  It 
was good that I did get encourgement to go into non-traditional fields (this 
was 1975-6), but I don't think it is good to look down on others for different
choices.

As an aside, it is good to make sure girls know that they are not limited to
the "traditional woman's careers".  I remember my thought process in high
school when I was trying to determine what career I wanted.  I liked math
and science.  I started with nurse.  I volunteered at the hospital.  I still
found the medical world interesting, but it seemed like the nurses got stuck
with too much drudge work.  So I looked into other medical careers.  I thought
about medical lab technician, but it seems too routine.  Finally, I had the 
thought, Why couldn't I be a doctor?  It took me way too long to even consider
the fact that I COULD be a doctor.  Then I got exposed to computers and I
changed my mind.  I got my degree in Electrical Engineering and after two
years switched to software.  I had no problems going into a male dominated
career, but it a leap to even consider it.


Karen Helt
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler)
Subject: Re: How to get daughter more career-minded?
Organization: University of Victoria
Date:  4 Oct 92 04:46:44 GMT

judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>In article <1992Sep28.160918.12999@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>>We have a 4 years old daughter who is really bright.  ...
>>
>>Then, a few weeks ago, I took her to the doctor for her regular
>>checkup.  On our way back, I asked her: "Do you want to be a
>>doctor when you grow up?"  Her answer shocked me.  "No," she said
>>"I want to get married."  "But you can be a doctor and get married
>>too" I tried to tell her that there is really no conflict here.
>>"No," she said "I want to be a mom and have kids."  "But you can
>>be a mom, have kids, and be a doctor at the same time." I was trying
>>my best to explain to her.  "No," her voice became lauder "I don't
>>want to be a doctor.  I want to get married when I grow up."
>>

I also feel 4YO is a little early for a career crisis.
When I was 4 my father worked as a janitor so I wanted a "lunch
bucket" job just like my Dad.
As I experienced success in academic pursuits, my life goals changed.
Now I am one of the "suits" (an office worker).
My 8YO son has always played "going to the office, etc."
If he continues to demonstrate talent and strives to a career
like mine, then I'll do what I can to sustain him.

A IDLER
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.legal
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Subject: attractive nuisance...wasRe: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 19:21:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.162517.19734@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>>At which point it is the PARENTS' responsibility to teach the kids
>>to swim (and not to trespass, and to stay away from dangerous situations).
>
>You can not expect that at a certain point, a child is suddenly fully
>responsible and omniscient and simply keep them caged up until that
>time. Children are so attracted to water that it is probably nearly
>impossible to keep them away from it no matter how much effort the
>parents have put into training. That's why it's called an
>attractive nuisance.

That is patently bull s..t.  For every trespassing idiot there are
hundreds of children that seem to know right from wrong and respect 
the property rights/boundaries of others.  The fact that there are some
(too many as far as I'm concerned) kids who don't giva a hoot for
whatever reason should not indemnify them against the ill that may
befall them AND certainly should not be used as a means to
enrich the parents of these brats when/if they are killed while
amusing themselves in someonelse's attractive nuisance.

And in another post you said:
>But, libertarian principles only apply among competent, consenting
>adults.  Children are none of the above. They are not competent,
>they can not consent by definition, and they are not adults.

My 7 year old sure knows right from wrong and I fail to see why
other kids her age (worse yet, older) should not be expected to
behave in a civilized fashion, respecting what is NOT their's.
Given the attitude that  "children are not competent..." let's
totally ignor any criminal action on their part (ie. theft, murder,
etc.).

A perfect example of the "Let my kid do anything attitude" was 
a recent experience at a car show I attended.  I had my antique
TR-3 sports car on display and upon returning to it found a kid almost
totally inside the car....while his parents stood and said nothing.  
Only after I told the kid if he wanted to look inside he should ask
did the parents make any effort to have him not touch the vehicle.
Amazing, just amazing.  But I guess I must tolerate these little
assholes because I own an "attractive nuisance."  After all, if
I didn't own such a nice car I wouldn't have to be worried about it :-)

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:57:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1992Oct2.175735.26895
Organization: AT&T

In article <1687492EE.M17257@mwvm.mitre.org> M17257@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>Well, I've seen the names-Major Major, who of course, was a Major.
>Then there was Major Broccoli
>I've seen Kermie Kermit
>and Royal Pageant

I went to school with a Candice Barr and Chris Cross.  From sixth
grade through high school I knew the Brest family:  Richard and Patricia
(I swear.  I swear I'm not making this up.)

My favorite, though, was our music teacher:  Shirley Stitz.  That's a
surname that gives a certain uplift to ANY female name, no pun
intended there.

One thing that strikes me as amazing is that ALL THOSE female porno
queens have really suggestive names.  I mean, what WERE their parents
thinking, naming their daughters Cherry Forever, Honey Bush, and
Candy High?  Honestly.  :-)

-Nance
-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*    o__    *^*^*^*^*  |  Work that body!
att!ihlpk!colucci            _.>/               | Stay fit for life.
                            (_) \(_)                           
From: jean@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jean Jasinski)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:54:47 GMT
Subject: Re: thank you for the easy birth stories.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.kids

I had the pleasure of having my uterus massaged after my C-section
by a couple of nursing STUDENTS who couldn't ever find it.  And the
morphine pump locks you for 10 minutes.  I got to the point where I
would tell them to come back in 10 minutes for another attempt.

Jean
From: lynne@pacersoft.com (Lynne Chantler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Thanks for the NE Picnic!
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:19:59 GMT
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXDate: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:27:14 GMT

A special thanks to Dena and Peg for the wonderful location and wonderful
food.  The weather was perfect and it was great to finally meet some of
you and put a face to the name.

Grace conked out about 2 minutes down the road and did take a 20 minute
power nap on the way home.  We both had a lot of fun and we will look
forward to doing it again soon (maybe Spring?)

Thanks again,
Lynne
From: pollack@cs.pitt.edu (Martha E. Pollack)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Heart Murmur in Infants
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:19:41 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

When my daughter (now 4-1/2 years old) was an infant, her pediatrician
also discovered a heart murmur and sent us to a cardiologist to have
it checked.  Like you, I worried a lot, even though my pediatrician,
like yours, told us that it almost certainly wasn't serious: after
all, my daughter was gaining weight and was otherwise healthy.  

As it turns out, the cardiologist never had to do an echocardiagram.
After looking at the electrocardiagram and listening to Anna's heart
with a stethoscope, he assured us that all she had was a functional
heart murmur called a "Still's murmur," something that's apparently
fairly common in babies.  As I understand it, "functional" means that
it's just the way her heart works; there's nothing wrong.  He said it
was good for us to know this, so that, for example, if she ever ended
up in an emergency room for something and they heard a heart murmur,
we could assure them that it had previously been checked and was just
functional.  Also, with some kinds of heart murmurs, but not with a
one like this, you need to take antibiotics before dental treatment,
and it's useful to know that she doesn't need this.

Just one story, but maybe it'll help you relax some until your
daughter's checkup.
From: howie@cfarer.boeing.com (Howie Modell)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: you know you're a parent when....
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:40:57 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group

In article <1992Oct1.122445.8985@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>,
eaton@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bob Eaton x3478) wrote:
> 
> ...when you come to work with a Ronald McDonald bandaid on your finger :-)
> 

... or Ninja Turtles or Mickey Mouse or Ghostbusters ....

... when you come to work with a Little Mermaid Thermos(tm) filled with
coffee 

+----All opinions expressed are mine and *NOT* my employers!----+
   howard modell, Boeing Defense & Space group, Seattle, WA
         howie@cfarer.boeing.com, h.modell@online.com,
         h.modell@ieee.org,   72376.252@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: hirsch@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Bob Hirsch)
Subject: Re: When did you feel "grown-up" 
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:11:16 GMT

Knew I was getting older:
1. I was the same age as my father was when I was born.

2. I knew people who were *trying* to get pregnant instead of trying not
   to.

Felt grown-up:
1. Traveling by myself and rented a car at the airport.

2. Jury duty.

3. My wife's son moved in with us while he goes to college (I never had
   children of my own).

Bob Hirsch - Sterling Software - NASA Ames Research Center
hirsch@ames.arc.nasa.gov         Mail Stop 233-3
415/604-4807                     Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000
**The preceding has been an opinion by a concerned citizen**
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: robert@jetsun.weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon)
Subject: Re: How to get daughter more career-minded?
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:46:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.160918.12999@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>Maybe, we think, she will become a great lawyer upholding the rights
>and the liberty for many; or at least, she can be a doctor relieving
>the pains and the sufferings of the sick.  

It's unfair, even cruel, to project your fantasies onto your children
this way.  Not only have you set up unrealistic expectations for her,
but you've set up REALLY unrealistic expectations for her. (I notice
that you want her to be Thomas Jefferson, but you'll settle for
Albert Scheweitzer.)

>"No," her voice became lauder "I don't
>want to be a doctor.  I want to get married when I grow up."

Good for her!  Maybe she'll have you whipped into shape in a few
years.

>I have no idea where she picked up that concept.  Knowing its
>implied message, we have banned "Little Mermaid" video tape from
>our household.  Instead, we read her books like "Doctor Hilda made
>the house call" and the likes.  Whenever possible, we always find
>her a female pediatrician in the hope that she has a good role model.
>But despite all of these conscious efforts on our part, she 
>obviously picked up some other ideas.  

Isn't that just the way?  You censor, you lecture, and you use all
the right propaganda, and the damn kids STILL come up with
Unacceptable Ideas.

>Any suggestion for us to turn the things around?  

Yes: get counseling.  Your expectations are unrealistic, your methods
are ineffective, and the guilt trip you are no doubt laying on your
child (intentionally or not) could end up as a burden she carries
around for the rest of her life.

	-- Robert
-- 
    Robert Plamondon, robert@weitek.COM

"Ready whenever you are, C.B.!"
From: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: RE: Too Many NO's at Daycare
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:09:19 GMT
Reply-To: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO

> I have never heard her say a positive thing to the kids.

To me, this is the biggest problem you describe.  Obviously,
children need to be praised up one side and down the other 
for the good things they do.  This not only reinforces good
behavior, but makes them feel loved, appreciated, and happy!
It gives them confidence and makes them more likely to be good
to others.

Perhaps if you asked her to please add some positive reinforcement
and leave the 'instead of saying no' part off, you'd get better
results?

>She says things like "you need to quiet down please" or "No running",
> No climbing on furniture, please" etc.

Parenting styles vary, but I see no problem with these statements,
providing they are balanced with positive feedback and praise.  This
is life, at any age.  

>I told her that I only say no when he is about to hurt himself or
> others or destroy property. I minimize these by babyproofing so
> really the only no I use is when he hits me or tears my books .

Boy, there are really different schools of thought on this one.
Some of my friends with kids my daughter's age (21 mo.) have a
house full of breakable stuff all at little hand's reach and have
simply trained their child to stay away (NO). They claim very few
arguments and problems, because they started very young.  Some people,
like you, scour the house so that almost everything within reach is
okay and the kid never has to hear the word no.  My own beliefs lie
somewhere in the middle.  All dangers are removed.  Many breakables
are removed.  However, we still have our share of NO items.  It seems
to me that unless my child is to be in my house exclusively, they must
learn to leave some things alone (at Grandparents, friends, stores, etc.)

>  She does spank her own 3 yr old though when she has tryed reasoning
with him to no avail.

Reasoning with a 3 yr. old.  Seems like this would fail pretty often!

Bottom line is, I think some amount of NO is required eventually.
My thought is that it would be harder to hear later than sooner.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Whitley            email: Chris.Whitley@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
NCR Microelectronics     Phone: (303) 223-5100 ext. 314
2001 Danfield Court        Fax: (303) 226-9556
Ft. Collins, CO  80525
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: dmc@sei.cmu.edu (Dawn Cappelli)
Subject: Re: Constipation and Feeding problems
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:04:09 GMT



My daughter has had severe problems with constipation since she was one week 
old when I was nursing her, and it continued when I switched to formula, and
still continued when I put her on solids.  When she was nursing my pediatrician
told me to give her baby prune juice, when that didn't work he said to give
her baby prunes.  When that didn't work he said to give her adult prune
juice.  That worked if given in large enough quanitiies.

When I switched her to formula he said to mix Maltsupex with her bottle.  
That worked, but as she got older she wouldn't drink it anymore.

When I put her on solids he continued to give me "traditional" remedies,
without really thinking about it very hard, even though my daughter was in 
severe pain.  Oh yes, and of course he recommended the old suppositories - just
to add more agony to what agony she was already going through.

Finally, I switched pediatricians, and this one immediately asked me if I had 
tried taking her off of dairy products.  I said that my last doctor had said 
to take her off for a few days when she had problems, and I had, but that 
didn't seem to help.  He said that it takes up to 6 days to get the lactose 
completely out of your system, so I should try taking her off of dairy products
for 6 days.  And sure enough she had problems until the sixth day, when 
suddenly she started having regular bowel movements!

That was in May, and I haven't given her milk since.  On occasion when I have
given her ice cream or cheese (sometimes I just can't resist those big blue
eyes!) she has had constipation problems again.

I wanted to pass this along because I was so angry that my daughter suffered 
for almost 2 years with my doctor assuring me that this was not unusual & 
that there was nothing more I could do, and the answer was so simple!






------------
Dawn Cappelli			dmc@sei.cmu.edu   
Software Engineering Institute	(412) 268-6170
Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med,chi.general
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 13:39:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.154958.15469@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.120308.1873@ll.mit.edu> yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>>	Let me side wipe this asshole and speak in support of your
>>	efforts.  People who have lived and seen the huge impact
>>	of healthier living has on behavior.
>
>So, tell me, my good father, if your daughter had epilepsy, would you try
>placing her on an additive-free diet?  After all, mens sana and all that,
>right?  "Gee, it makes sense to me!"--is that what you say to yourself?
>
	No one (except you) said anything about epilepsy.  Don't compare	
	apples & oranges.

>>	It's hard to imagine that:
>>
>>	1) People would scoff at the possibliity/probability that all
>>	the chemicals and junk foods available today would be in any
>>	way irritating to the human body; particularly a weaker small
>>	child.
>
>Well, when such ideas have been investigated (to the extent they're able
>to be stated in some kind of testable way--comments like yours are more
>religious than scientific), they come up empty.  When the zealot is confronted

	Not true.  There is plenty of evidence.  You just haven't seen it.


>>
>>	Drug dependancy!!!!
>
>Oh, my, so many exclamation points.  What drug dependency?
>Children (or adults for that matter) given Ritalin or pemoline
>or other stimulants for medical purposes do not become addicted.
>They don't become drug dependent.

	Addiction and dependancy are two different things.


>>>You don't happen to be a Scientologist, do you?  It wouldn't surprise me
>>>from the rest of this article of yours.
>>	Are you of the "Worship the almighty doctor" school?
>
>I'm a believer in the scientific method, I know the dangers and the
>advantages of drugs and a sense of when and when they shouldn't be used,

	Ah, good.  Then if you come over to my house, meet my daughter,
	I give her a glass of orange juice, and she rips your heart
	out, then you'll see cause & effect?

	Seriously!  Come on over!


	Let's boil this issue down to one simple question.  Let me
	ask it.  If I were to give you, or drink myself a glass of
	motor oil, kerosene, gasoline, or the like, and either of
	us complained that we felt ill, would that suprise you?

	Would you disagree that I felt ill after doing that?

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: lcheap@cac.washington.edu (Laurel Cheap )
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: When did you feel "grown-up"
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:19:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct6.201940.21595
Organization: UW Computing

>In article <1992Oct2.180749.29872@alw.nih.gov> paula@helix.nih.gov (Paula Moore) writes:
>>
>>Anyone else have these "I guess this means I'm a "grown-up" " experiences?

For me it was the awful realization that *I* had to clean the toilet
in my first apartment.  I mean, *Moms* are supposed to do that, right?
:)

Laurel "official household toilet cleaner" Cheap
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laurel Cheap           University of Washington   lcheap@u.washington.edu
Information Systems    Seattle, Washington  USA   a.k.a. Brendan's mommy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns)
Subject: Re: How to get daughter more career-minded?
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:11:01 GMT

In article <1a7mc6INN5cj@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> nola@cats.ucsc.edu (Nola Van Vugt) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep28.175711.24303@cbnewse.cb.att.com> elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen) writes:
>><lots of stuff about a 4 year old's lack of ambition deleted.....>
>>Up to about 4th grade, I insisted I wanted to be a teacher.
>>Now I'm a software engineer.

I remember what I wanted to be when I was little... First, I wanted to
be a nun, ... then I wanted to be a teacher (and you could still be
both!) ... then I wanted to be and airline stewardess (argh!) ...
then I wanted to be a nurse (until I fainted at the sight of blood) 
then I decided I wanted to do something that allowed me to push 
buttons, cause that was real cool.  Well, now I'm a software 
engineer.

Now, if I could just have the patience my mom had when my
daughter grows up and says she wants to be a lawyer. (Have
you ever read Andrew Tobias.  He makes a good argument for
steering your children away from law.  To paraphase "The
future of this country will not be determined from divorce
law, but in the ability of Americans to use their thoughts
creatively to come up with better communications, better
computers, better leisure activities.") 

						Cathy


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mwalker@taimyr.Colorado.EDU (Marilyn Walker)
Subject: Episiotomy reference
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:15:42 GMT

I have heard in several places (perhaps here?) of a recent Canadian (?) study
that seemed to rather conclusively demonstrate that episiotomies cause more
problems than they solve.  Does anyone have the reference for this or other
similar studies?  I am beginning to discuss delivery details with my doc
(7.5 weeks to go!), and would like this as backup in case that part of the
negotiations does not go well.  He will certainly respect scholarly works, but
if he hasn't read it, then it is me trying to tell him that his training is
wrong.  Any help greatly appreciated.

Marilyn
mwalker@taimyr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids