From: rgoers@gumdrop.Xerox.COM (Ron Goers)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.birthright
Subject: Re: Don't just whine about media bias. Do something!
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:21:27 GMT
Organization: Imaging Science Engineering & Technology, Xerox Corporation

In article <adams.718032997@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>rgoers@gumdrop.Xerox.COM (Ron Goers) writes:
>
>>In article <adams.717858738@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>1. I'm not pro-abortion

>>Did she know that her chances of having a 'wanted' baby have been reduced 
>>because of that abortion?  Probobly not.  
>Yes, she did.  But again, the ramifications of carrying the child to term
>(this was in '81) were FAR worse than the risks associated with the
>abortion.
>
That's simply not true.  Abortion is the un-natural termination of a natural
body process.  To say that abortion is safer than birth is repeating something
that someone taught us somewhere along the way which is unsubstantiated and
un-true.  Abortion is not, nor has it ever been, safer than giving birth.


>>Women are being exploited by a multi-billion (yes BILLION) dollar a year 
>>industry.  
>No one exploited her.  The decision was made LONG before she even went near
>a clinic.  She didn't need counselling to know what options were available,
>and she was fairly well informed on the procedure and the ramifications.
>
I have to ask where she got her information.  If it was from PP, then I can
assure you that she got one side of the story ONLY.  If she visited a Crisis
Pregnancy Center, then you are probobly correct in saying she was well 
informed.

>>They go into a clinic armed with half-truths.  They are pressured to make 
>>on-the-spot decisions which will have lasting effects on their lives.  
>Huh?  This 16 year old who CALLED AND MADE AN APOINTMENT OF HER OWN
>VOLITION and followed HER OWN CHOICE was pressured?  By whom?  Certainly
>not any abortion provider.
>
You can't tell me that ANY 16 year-old who finds out she is pregnant is thinking
clearly.  Again, who counseled her?  Therein lies the answer as to whether or 
not she was pressured into doing what *she* wanted to do.  I suggest that it is
more likely that she really did what 1) her parents wanted, or 2) her boyfriend
wanted.    

>>All for the sake of the almighty dollar.  
>Oh yeah...she was dragged into the clinic, forced to pay and forced to
>undergo an abortion.  She'd be quite surprised by your characterization.
>
>>Abortionists aren't helping women, they are feeding off them!  
>Oh please...this generalization is unsupportable.  I am showing you a
>datapoint that disputes what you are saying completely.
>
No, what you showed is a data point which supports the above, that is assuming
that they DID take her money ... which I am sure they were more than happy to do.  Besides, if you are so sure about this 'data point' being represenative of the majority, I ask you; 
Why is PP willing to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars because
they don't want to follow the recent 'gag order' put into effect?  Could it be
that they stand to lose less money by ignoring it, than by following it? 


>>She more than likely DID NOT have all the information required to make such 
>>a decision when she entered the clinic.  
>Bad assumption.  She had already MADE the decision before she got with 20
>miles of the clinic...
>
... Didn't answer the above!  Because she already made a decision, does not mean
it was an informed one, or the best one.  

For instance, I could decide to go for a 1 mile walk down a mountain trail.  
Someone told me that it would be a nice walk, and it wouldn't hurt for me to 
get some exercise.  Being armed with that information, I would take off and
start walking ...  But what if I had gotten ALL the information BEFORE I made 
that decision?  Little did I know that it WOULD hurt.  The woods were full
of snakes and bear, and there was a blind cliff 1/2 mile down the trail that
many people have unwittingly fallen off of.  Now this might solve your problem
of having to deal with my unrelenting responses, but would it have been a good
decision for me to take that walk?  More importantly, would I have CHOSEN to 
take it, having had ALL the information at the start.  Now, I am not saying that
your friend WAS NOT informed at all, however, MANY counseling centers which
openly admit to being pro-abortion oriented, DO NOT tell the full story to 
these scared girls when they come in.  The reason?  $$$  So, your friend may
have known what she was getting into, but chances are that she didn't.  

ie:  The doctors tell their patients 'it won't hurt' but I've seen tapes of 
actual abortions taking place where the woman (who is put under) is screaming,
and her body is writhing as she is getting scraped and vacuumed out.  I'm 
sorry, but I *can't* believe it didn't hurt!   

Beyond being pro-life, I feel strongly that Informed Concent laws would in them-
selves eliminate the demand for abortion.  (Informed Consent is where doctors
would be required to inform their patients on all aspects of abortion.  This 
would include explicit information on procedures, alternatives, etc.)  The fact
that this DOES NOT happen today should be enough to make one suspicious of their
current motivations and practices.  Therefor, if you were to ask me if I would
prefer No Abortion over Informed Consent, I would rather women be informed, and
feel that in itself would be enough to eliminate the demand for abortion.


rlg

-- 
Ron Goers @ Xerox Corporation     Email: rgoers@iset.scan.mc.xerox.com

"Time flies like an arrow ...
 fruit flies like a banana"                                           
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc