From: backman@FTP.COM (Larry Backman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: PC/TCP 2.1 copy protection
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:07:48 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


 >> >And what is to stop someone from either 1) patching the binaries to disable
 >> >the "copy protection" or 2) obtaining a non-protected version (as in FTP
 >> >Software's scheme for their site licenses) and then distributing these 
 >> >versions freely? Has copy protection helped you any? No. Has it hampered your
 >> >legit customers? Most definitely. Do you honestly think it will take more than
 >> >a week or so for someone to figure out how to bypass any scheme you can think
 >> >of?
There are clearly ways to break, avoid, step around, FTP Software's copy
protection scheme.  If someone does so; they probably are aware that
they are violating a license.  Its unlikely that without *serious* effort,
code, and pain on all parts, that we can stop someone who doesn't give
a damn about the license and is willing to spend more than a couple
hours to devise a way around the serialization.

That person is clearly doing something illegal.

 >> difficult any copy protection scheme is to break. I will say that the major
 >> reason that a company like FTP, SUN or B&W (correct me if I'm wrong, SUN & FTP),
 >> is adding copy protection/notification is not to stop the hackers from
 >> breaking the protection and running several copies, but to make companies think
 >> twice about illegaly copying software. In several foreign countries, companies
 >> don't think twice about using a single copy of software on all their machines.
 >> If they require a hacker to break the protection, they would have to consider
 >> their actions and most likely "do the right thing".

Carl is absolutely correct.  We are responding to a need expressed by others
to stop the "casual" illegal copy, an illegal copy that often is done
unwittingly.  This need is often expressed by a reseller or distributor
who is trying to sell into a mid to large account, and who cannot sell
a site license as we can and who wants some level of assurance that their
customer is not cheating them unwittingly.

 >> >And were Beame and Whiteside to implement the same scheme would we start
 >> >having problems with conflicting serial numbers between your product and
 >> >FTP Software's on the same net?? What about when the next vendor comes along
 >> >and thinks this is such a great idea and jumps on the band wagon (but of
 >> >course not taking the time to _ensure_ its serial numbers are unique).
If this unlikely event were to take place I would be in contact with

Carl quite fast, exchanging algorithms and seed numbers to assure that
we wouldn;t ever collide.  However; if another vendor does pick the same
algorithm as we did, and uses the same starting seed, FTP would quickly
resolve problems with that vendor.

 >>         It is not as simple as you are descibing. The ARP packets have a
 >> series of special codes which indicate that it contains an "FTP serial #".
 >> If another company did this, they would choose a different "special code".
 >> Just like ethernet address, vendors must ensure that the special codes
 >> are different. Maybe (I don't know) FTP uses the letters "FTP" and B&W
 >> might use "B&W" ... :-)
we do fold some of our own secret stuff into the serial # & key; its not
"FTP" however...

 >>         As I indicated previously, B&W does not have any protection
 >> scheme and that we have no plans at this time to add one. I should also note
 >> that the pressure to add one is coming from foreign distributors in certain 
 >> countries.

as we have heard and yielded to.

Just for a reality check as to what copy protection really does for FTP...
it adds overhead to
	 * sales
	 * production
	 * support
it potentially might add some small amount of revenue; certainly not
worth the amount of administrative overhead we have to pour into
it to make sure it works right.  We do not make $$$ off this; it is
a fact of doing business in a complex and competitive international
marketplace.

Each time this issue comes up you see most of the leading vendors
speak up with good hard reasons why they are using or considering
using copy protection.  Its rare you see us all agree on something.
There must be a reason :-).

Consider how much easier it would all be if everyone paid for all the
software they used....


Larry Backman
FTP Software