HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:13:26 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      ? Proper email address for posts ?

MODERATOR/LIST-OWNER please short-stop (unless you think it appropriate
to enter into the general discussion).

What is the email address I ought to be using to post of the CHRISTIA
listserver?  I suspect that my attempts to post through the nn newsreader
may be ending up in never-never land.  I thought I'd copied correctly the
address our sys-admin said is the address for the moderator, but that isn't
working.
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:52:35 CST
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From:         YMIXON@UA1VM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

The Bible's teaching on homosexuality is very clear.  It is a an abomination be
fore God.  I don't think that any denominations'teaching usurp GOD's WORD!!!
No Jesus did not condem the woman caught in adultery, but he did tell her to go
and sin no more.  The church has to do the same thing.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:16:49 -0600
From:         Noe Torres | ECISD <noe@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The bashing of a Saint.

> We have just a few Moslem, Homosexuals, New-Agers, Witches or Atheists on
> this list, and the ones that are suscribed have shown a very kind and
> understaning actitude, not seen in some of those who claim to be Christians.
>
> Shalom,
> Memo.

Please, let's not be looking for Christians to feed to the lions.  The
label Christian does not connote perfection, any more than any of the
other labels listed above do.  I dislike the phrase "those who claim to be
Christians."  We are all "Christians under construction," if you will.  If
my understanding is correct, the NT use of "saints" is actually closer to
"those who are in the process of becoming saints."  Let's not heap abuse
on all Christians at the slightest misstatement.

NOE.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)
Subject: Re: Being gay is offensive?
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:30:17 GMT

Dear Janie (JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>) ---

You might want to cool down before you send off your contributions.
Initial errors of fact really weaken what you have to say.

For instance, in bit.listserv.christia <CHRISTIA%92112008354321@ASUACAD.BITNET>
you write:

>There were Christians before there were Gays, Atheist, and ungodly people.

This flies in the face of quite a bit of ancient Greek culture ---
predating Jesus, the Greeks provide quite adequate counterexamples of Gays
and Atheists before there were Christians.  Any reading of Romans 1:18ff
gives us ungodly people before there were Christians.

Continuing the post:

>Trying to justify something that is wrong in the eye sight of God is ungodly.
>Christianity has been around for so long and the word was here before we were;
>we can either accept or reject it.   Being gay is offensive and will be until
>God removes all of us.  The reason for all those things you mentioned are going
>on is because the devil has those people's mind.  They just need to repent.

>God said only a few will make it in to heaven and to my knowledge God can't
>lie.   I just pray for all and go on.  I can only say what God has already
>told us in his word.  We as Christian do not have time to support people in
>their wrong doings.   Being gay is wrong.  I can tell them what is right and
>go on.  I have done my part.

I would only ask, have you told them in a fashion to guarantee that they
will NOT listen.

You also seem supremely confident about some issues that have long been
subjects of lengthy discussion and disagreement among Christians, such as
the number of the saved.

As the issue of homosexual behavior, if your proof text is Lev 18:22 (You
must not lie with a male as with a woman, since that would be abominable),
are you as zealous to enforce Lev 18:20 (You must not have sexual
intercourse with your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her); for
that matter, to enforce Lev 18:19 (You must not approach a woman while she
is unclean from menstruation, to have intercourse with her).  Farther down
in the Holiness Code we even find Lev 19:19 (...You must not sow your field
with two kinds of seed, nor put on a garment made of two kinds of material).

Our challenge is given in Lev 19:17 --- "You must not cherish hate against
your fellow-countryman; you must be sure to reprove your fellow, but not
incur sin because of him."  Often the rhetoric used against gays sure sounds
like cherishing hatred rather than temporate reproof.

(All scriptural quotations are from the Smith/Goodspeed translation.)
-- 
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:41:00 EST
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A
From:         Liz Moreau <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Friends,

Please keep my husband in your prayers.  He has applied for a new job
and we are hoping that things will work out (if it is the Lord's
will).

On another note ....

My sister has connected to Prodigy.  Does anyone know if there are any
Christian chat lines on there?  If so, what are they called.  Are
there any other reasonable services that she can connect to?
(Compuserve, Genie, etc.)  How does she get in touch with them?  I'd
appreciate it if anyone could help me out, and please responde by
e-mail.

                                        Liz
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:28:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Ozzy Osbourne

<     Ozzy used to be part of a rock group called Black Sabbath.  As the name
< might suggest, this group was heavily into satanic songs, occultic images,
< and other things like that.

The name Black Sabbath came from an Italian horror movie.

<     During one of these infamous concerts, Ozzy claims that
<someone gave him what he thought was an artificial bat.  He
<got overzealous in one of the songs and bit its head off for
<all to see.  Later he was either told or realized that the
<bat was not artificial but real.  As far as I know, this
<only happened once.

It was a gelatin prop. He found out it was real right quick, and got rabies
shots that night.  He was not pleased about it.

<     Black Sabbath has since ceased to exist and apparently
<Ozzy is not doing his own thing, and I have no clear what
<this is.

This is not true.

Ozzy left Black Sabbath in 1980, and was replaced by Ronnie James Dio.  Dio
left a few years after and was replaced by Ian Gillian, who left and was
replaced by a string of unknowns until this year, when Dio rejoined the band.
I saw them just this August, so I know they still exist.

Ozzy has had a very successful solo career since leaving Sabbath.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:59:23 CST
From:         Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: I, Jesse made an error on Christia

Dear Memo ;

Mayby you did post privately ... if so, I am sorry ... my eyes are gettin'
out of focus these days.


Jesse
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:46:03 EST
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pat Logar

Pat Logar passed away.  I thank God that she is no longer a living vegetable.

Her funeral was monday.     I am sorry that I did not tell you.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:06:06 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 11/20

"I died to the law ... I was put to death on the cross with Christ" (Galatians
2:19).

"We know that our old life died with Christ on the cross.  This was so that our
sinful selves would have no power over us ..." (Romans 6:6).

"I can now live for God ... I do not live anymore -- it is Christ living in me"
(Galatians 2:20).

"You should see yourselves as being dead to the power of sin and alive with God
through Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:03:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

<of the prejudices of others. Your precise argument could have been used to
<argue against integrating Blacks and Whites in the military because of White

Indeed it was...

<Why do you assume that gays and lesbians would do worse on objective testing
<than non-gays?  Certainly there are SOME gays or lesbians who are qualified
<to serve, perhaps even more qualified than hetrosexuals?

INdeed, some of the ejected Gays and Lesbians have been the top of the heap.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:47:58 CST
From:         gloria thompson <GTHOMPSO@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

Janie:
You are so right and I agree.  The wages of sin is still death, but the gift
of God is eternal life.  Thanks be to God for sending His Son to redeem us
from the curse.  Praise the Lord...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:04:51 EST
From:         TQX@CORNELLC.BITNET
Subject:      The Gaithers

Maks,
  My wife and I watched the 700 club on Friday night and loved the
music. Several years ago we saw the Gaithers in person in Syracuse
and they had Henry and Hazel Slaughter with them. I especially remember
the beautiful job Hazel did on "My Tribute". Where was Hazel Friday?
Are she and Henry still together? Just curious.
                                           In Christ,
                                           Claude Garner
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:01:08 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      REPLY-RELAYED PRAYER REQUESTS

Dear Marty,

I will be praying for the prayer  requests, but I would like to know what
is  Radio  Free  Thulcandra.  Thank  you and  you  have  a  blessed  day.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We are forever  grateful for all your  many blessings. We lift  up to you
Sue and ask Father that you remove  the scales over her eyes and give her
wisdom and understanding.  Please deliver her from this  new age doctrine
and give her  your salvation in Jesus Name. Father  also help the unsaved
people everywhere  and help us as  believers to be a  witness wherever we
are for the building up of your Kingdom.

Father we also  ask you to heal  Courtney Fluhr from the top  of her head
to the  soles of her  feet and make her  completely whole in  Jesus Name.
Father we  ask that you open  up her lungs and  that she will be  able to
breathe freely. We  also ask you Father to heal  herfrom this asthma con-
dition and  also give  her parents  strength; your  love, joy,  and peace
through this  trying time.  Father we  thank you  in advance  for hearing
and acting  on these  petitions. In  Jesus Name we  pray. Amen  and Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:26:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ozzy Osbourne

<Not everyone that claims CHrist, has him.  If you do not have the Spirit of
<Christ living within you, then you do not have Christ.

I am not qualified to report on whether or not Ozzy "has Christ."  That is
between him and his God.  I only report on his statement of religion.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:43:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Austrailian Synod Vote - anyone ?:

Has anyone got news of the Australian Synod vote on the Ordination of Women
to the priesthood ?
The UK news started to cover it and then dropped the story because of a major
fire at Winsor Castle so I am left without the results.  Can anyone enlighten
me ?
Many Thanks
Carol L
Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:22:34 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gaither...

And there's always...

Because He lives, I can face tomorrow,
Because He lives, all fear is gone,
Because I know who holds the future
My life is worth the living just because He lives.

Praise the Lord!

Carol N
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 18 NOV 92 16:40:46 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:21:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Ozzy Osbourne

Subject:  Re: Ozzy Osbourne

Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET> writes:
> Not everyone that claims CHrist, has him.  If you do not have the Spirit of
> Christ living within you, then you do not have Christ

So much for security of salvation.  With logic like that, you
understand why so many dare only to hope they have a claim on
Christ's Promises.

And from:     "Jeff A. Dilcher" <mktjadx@EDU.GSU.GSUSGI2>
> And not everyone who appears worldly is of the devil.  Things are not what
> they appear.
> Aren't you glad it is *not* up to us to decide?

Yes but I some time wish I was blessed with a little more discernment.
It would make life so much easier to be able to sort sheep from goats
here on earth where things are shades of grey and sometimes marginal.
Yet, I am not ungrateful, I hope. I thank God for that discernment He
is Good enough to gift me with. I hope also that in "giving benefit of
doubt" I don't risk my own salvation.

Sorry, that sounds so full of doubt.  I think it may have something to
do with the work I'm doing.  Still, the logic of the statements still
stand when subjected to the smile treatment.

God Bless

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:23:20 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jesse a bit miffed 'bout his treatment by some!

> We are "big" boys and girls, and if we are Christians
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> at all, then we should know HOW we need to treat one another.

> Jesse Carnes

        Though I, and I don't think Steven, would be bothered by this, I still
think it is insulting, belittling another person's thoughts on this discussion
of the attitude with which post should be sent.


        Why don't you, a christian, know HOW we should treat one another???
It is obvious from recent posts that you are offending some and
insulting others.

Maybe you should consider the posibility that these people are right?

        Please read the recently posted definitions of polemic.  It DOES NOT
primarily mean logical, reasoned aurguments.

Mark
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:10:27 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: I, Jesse made an error on Christia
              17 Nov 1992 01:49:15 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Dear Gareth ;

The one thread that connects ALL true believers is the Saving Work of Jesus
Christ as sin substitute and His Resurrection.
The Gospel, part of the Word of God, is the ONE common thread, as John states
in 1 John that UNITES Christians.

Some believers never live to be physically baptized, but all TRUE believers
live to be "baptized" by the preached Word of God and they ALL believe the
Gospel.

The Baptism that unites all believers is NOT one of water, but entrance into
the Word of God.  We all have the same Saving Word of Faith.


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Subject: Re: Disallowed thanks.
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:00:57 GMT

In article <E8D1AD8A400001BC@watt.ccs.tuns.ca> STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA writes:
>Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:51:00 -0400
>From:         STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA
>Subject:      Re: Disallowed thanks.
>It was hard to understand your post,  Dan.

I think the message was mis-titled.  Dan appeared to mean that he is
thankful for some things that are not currently allowed to be major
topics of discussion on Christia, not that the messages of thanksgiving 
themselves are disallowed.

What I got from his message was that he is thankful that, "...God...
chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy 
and blameless before Him.  In love He predestined us to adoption as sons
through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His
will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed
on us in the Beloved."  [Ephesians 1:4-5]

To which I can only say, "Amen!"


--
Bill Chapman, Box 1262, Mississippi State, MS  39762
<BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>           (601) 325-2042
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:23:28 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: The Gospel

Jesse,

Have you read something from the RCC written during or after the Vatican II ?

I guess you have not and that stuff is what is official now.

Your argument is refused as invalid.

Shalom,
Memo.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: CONTROVERSY
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:07:05 GMT


   This word has come up in definitions of POLEMIC, and I thought
defining CONTROVERSY might help to define POLEMIC better:

con-tro-ver-sy \'ka^:n-tre-,ver-se^-, Brit also ken-'tra^:v-er-se^-\
[ME controversie, fr. L controversia, fr. controversus disputable,
     lit., turned opposite, fr. contro- (akin to contra-) + versus,
     pp. of vertere to turn -- more at WORTH]
(14c)
1: a discussion marked esp. by the expression of opposing views:
     DISPUTE
2: QUARREL, STRIFE

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Organization: Dakota State University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 11:11:40 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Being gay is offensive?

[Repost --- the original MAY have gone astray.  Apologies if duplicate.]

Dear Janie (JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>) ---

You might want to cool down before you send off your contributions.
Initial errors of fact really weaken what you have to say.

For instance, in bit.listserv.christia <CHRISTIA%92112008354321@ASUACAD.BITNET>
you write:

>There were Christians before there were Gays, Atheist, and ungodly people.

This flies in the face of quite a bit of ancient Greek culture ---
predating Jesus, the Greeks provide quite adequate counterexamples of Gays
and Atheists before there were Christians.  Any reading of Romans 1:18ff
gives us ungodly people before there were Christians.

Continuing the post:

>Trying to justify something that is wrong in the eye sight of God is ungodly.
>Christianity has been around for so long and the word was here before we were;
>we can either accept or reject it.   Being gay is offensive and will be until
>God removes all of us.  The reason for all those things you mentioned are going
>on is because the devil has those people's mind.  They just need to repent.

>God said only a few will make it in to heaven and to my knowledge God can't
>lie.   I just pray for all and go on.  I can only say what God has already
>told us in his word.  We as Christian do not have time to support people in
>their wrong doings.   Being gay is wrong.  I can tell them what is right and
>go on.  I have done my part.

I would only ask, have you told them in a fashion to guarantee that they
will NOT listen.

You also seem supremely confident about some issues that have long been
subjects of lengthy discussion and disagreement among Christians, such as
the number of the saved.

As the issue of homosexual behavior, if your proof text is Lev 18:22 (You
must not lie with a male as with a woman, since that would be abominable),
are you as zealous to enforce Lev 18:20 (You must not have sexual
intercourse with your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her); for
that matter, to enforce Lev 18:19 (You must not approach a woman while she
is unclean from menstruation, to have intercourse with her).  Farther down
in the Holiness Code we even find Lev 19:19 (...You must not sow your field
with two kinds of seed, nor put on a garment made of two kinds of material).

Our challenge is given in Lev 19:17 --- "You must not cherish hate against
your fellow-countryman; you must be sure to reprove your fellow, but not
incur sin because of him."  Often the rhetoric used against gays sure sounds
like cherishing hatred rather than temporate reproof.

(All scriptural quotations are from the Smith/Goodspeed translation.)
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET