From: sjayanth@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Satyanand V. Jayanthi)
Subject: Hyderabadi muslims, secularism etc.,
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:30:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.184632.8373@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
:
:::What a comparison...its a question of how much you canm stretch yourselves
:::into justifying what is so obviously improper and unpatriotic.
:::This is not a fair comparison. First thing is US and India are not enemy
:::countries always at each other's throats. Next thing is that any sporting
:::event between india and US, I believe is never taken as some jihad...for
:::pakistan, any such event is so..I recall an interview by Zaheer abbas when
:::he was the captain saying so..Also , even if there were to be support from
:::the indian community here to an indian team, it is not along religious lines.
:
:I have several issues with this line of reasoning:
:
:1. You extrapolate the behavior of a few individuals to the entire
:   Muslim population of India. Rhetoric 101 tells us that this is
:   an old trick in the book. So, let us not fall for that.

    I am not extrapolating the behaviour of few to the entire community,
    all i am saying is there are a *few*. Now how few is the question,
    depending on ones personal experiences we have different answers to that.
    Do i take it that we both accept the presence of a "few" anti indian
    muslims and our differences are only on the question of how "few"?
  
:
:2. You seem to find favoritism based on nationalist pride acceptable.
:   You find favorotism based on athletic ability, irrespective of
:   nationality, acceptable. But, somehow you find favorotism based
:   on religious affinity unacceptable. Why is that? And why should
:   everyone subscribe to this? Why can't someone choose to root for
:   someone for reasons of faith? Why is it so inherently deplorable?
:   If it is, why don't we speak out against Hindu Samajs and Islamic
:   Congregations? (At the risk of sounding self-centered, I like
:   John McEnroe, Stefan Edberg and Peter Sampras. Everyone else,
:   including Vijay Amritraj, Ramanathan and Ramesh Krishnans are poor
:   excuses for tennis players. Gee, am I a traitor now? ;-)


   This argument is funny. Patriotism is defined on the basis of nationality,
 and not on religious affinity. Therefore, favouritism based on nationality
 is still patriotic (however perverted it is..) where as favouritism based on
 religious affinity, if it is at cross purposes to national interests and
 feelings, is unpatriotic. Supporting pakistan in vricket match might not
 harm us much, but what prevents me in thinking that they will do the same
 on other issues as well? And it is not just supporting pakistan, but also
 celebrating india's discomfiture. I have observed even that. I referred to
 the large scale celebrations when india lost to england once..so what about
 it? If the people(from india) living here or britain do that..supporting
 some other third country..the americans or brits will not be all that
 pleased. 

:
:3. You and others have readily concluded that the behavior of the
:   homogeneous (?) Muslim community in India is driven by one motivation-
:   spite for India. I never got that impression and I am sure I can
:   find one other person who agrees with me. 

  No. I have not said that. All i am saying is that a section of indian
muslims do. As for personal impressions..how about meeting me in
hyderabad..i'll take you around some "good" places..all conclusions yours..
  
:
:4. The stuff about countries being enemies is peripheral to the main
:   issue. India, one may argue, is in an economic war with US.

   The relations between india and any other country would be far different
   if the conflict were to be military in nature (as opposed to economic war)
:
:I am not out to show that I am a great secularist, but I see a 
:woeful lack of perspective in this thread and people who impute
:uncharitable motives to Muslims in India, IMHO, are flouting
:rules of logical discourse left and right.

  No, I am not attributing uncharitable motives to all muslims. Only to
some. Why do you think there is a rise in communal feelings in middle class
hindus in the last few years? Why does'nt this get directed against
christians or sikhs? Ofcourse i've been told that "its muslims now, its the
others next"!! I dont think those karsevaks were motivated by any love for
"ramlalla" as some would claim, or that they were concerned with setting
right some historical wrong. It was pure anti muslim feeling. And the more
you hear reports of hoisting pakistan flags on mosques etc., the more an
average hindu is going to turn into an anti-muslim, not because of anything
else but this perception that muslims give priority to their faith than to
national interests. The problem here is that VHP exaggerates the whole
thing while these apostles of secularism completely deny that. Juxtapose
the reports of pakistani interference in punjab and kashmir with the
increasing perception among middle class hindus that many muslims are
pro-pakistani (and hence in many aspects anti-indian), we have a partial 
answer as to why BJP/VHP have grown so much in the last few years.
As long far as these  defenders of secularism dont accept the problem i
will be vary of their protestations for secularism.

:
:Satya Prabhakar
:--
:______________________________________________________________
:Tell me what you pay attention to and I will tell you who you are!
:					-Ortega Y' Gasset

Narain.