From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.apps
Subject: What's awful about PC Tools 7.1? (SUMMARY OF RESPONSES)
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:40:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Aug21.004018.21105
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Distribution: na
Organization: The John Fluke Mfg. Co.  /a.k.a. The Gizmonics Institute/

Several comments came out on the net about this, but much of the input came
to me via e-mail.  I've editted the responses I received (cutting out
repeated references to my article, and sifting down signoff lines), and have
appended them to this note.

Much thanks to all who responded.  After reading a number of notes from
people who were getting along with PC Tools 7.1 under a "limited basis", I
decided to use it.  I'll let you know how it goes...

Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

                           "I'm the Chosen One.  And I choose to go shopping."
                                           -- BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
===========


>2)  The only parts of PC Tools 7.1 I was really interested in were their
>    Windows backup program, and disk recovery/checking software.  I planned
>    not to use any of their TSR or installable device drivers (if they
>    have any), as I like to have as few of those running on a DOS/Windows
>    system as possible.  Do you need to have some of their resident
>    memory programs running to use Windows backup, or standard disk
>    integrity checking or repair?
>
>Thanks in advance for any information or opinions you can offer.


There are many, many problems with pctools 7.1.  I was a loyal customer
from version about 4.x on .  It was a great programme.  7.1 is simply
very buggy.

Examples:

pcbackup will not make reliable backups on my machine w/o disabling pctools'
own cache programme.  And the way it fails is to _apparently_ work and only
produce unreadable disks sometime after the first one or two.  (i.e., you have 
to verify, which is very slow, to find out where it fails.

the shell  programme doesn't agree with drdos 6/ superstor
which I used a while back (I'm back to DOS due to incompatibilities :(   ... )
The result was unpredictable file losses in directories which were accessed 
while deleting files.

diskfix offers to 'fix' any drive partitioned and formatted with disk manager.
Saying yes results in a trashed hd before you can blink your eyes.

The programmes designed to swap pcshell and desktop into UMBs hang my machine.

I could go on.

To be honest, I still use pctools 7.1 backup but that is mainly because I now,
after a couple of years, feel confident that I know all of its idiosyncracies
with respect to my equipment.  I would not recommend it to a 'naive user' 
(if that's what you are :-) ...sorry couldn't help that)

Good luck

John Garland
jgarland@kean.ucs.mun.ca
===========

From: ardie%UIUC@sinclairj1.ppath.uiuc.edu (Richard D. McClary):

	PCTools 7.1 is definitely (sp?) worth a free copy!!!  The thing with 
PCTools is, if you started with Norton products, you'll probably find PCT 
deficient somewhere - the reviewer always do.  However, I started with PCT 
and supplimented it with Norton.  I could do without most of the NU stuff, 
but working on a machine without some version of PCT makes me feel like I 
have a thumb or two missing.
	I have saved more disks and files with PCT than I have with NU.  
NU's only value to me is as a sector editor - it is the best!  As for 
Windows backup, most reviews have PCTools at the top.  (Norton is just now 
getting around to putting tape drive support in its Win version!)  If you 
use disks for backup, PCT has probably the cutest display around - you watch 
your disk fill, then get put on the "done" pile and be replaced with one 
from the "empty" pile.  Once it is configured properly, it is quite fast.
(I have also successfully used it to completely restore TWO totally trashed 
hard disks.  That's why we bought it, isn't it?)
	The closest thing to a TSR necessary for Windows use is an 
environmental variable (Norton uses one, too).  It consists of "SET PCTOOLS=(
path)" in your autoexec.bat.
	My only "complaint" is that PCT 7 is the first release that actually 
requires you to look at the books for a few minutes. (The first 6 versions 
pretty much worked themselves.)  I have really enjoyed using this program.
===========


From: esr@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (A non-Windows user)

The general reason for the blasts is the experience that some of us  
have had with recent versions of PCTools.  The general impression  
seems to be that each successive version of PCTools has been buggier  
than the previous one.  I first started using PCTools with version 5.   
There were a lot of good things in that version including the disk  
caching program and the disk utilities.  I bought it because it had  
good utilities AND a (supposedly) reliable backup program.  


It turned out that PCBackup looked like it worked great but it  
couldn't always restore what it backed up.  I upgraded to version 6  
because it was supposed to be better.  I had the same kind, but  
different, problems restoring with version 6 and even two additional  
"fix" upgrades didn't solve all the problems.  The last straw was  
when it blithely wrote a whole bunch of large files on a backup  
floppy and didn't find any errors even though I discovered later that  
there was a bad spot on the disk.  It couldn't restore the file with  
the bad spot in it but it also wouldn't restore any of the following  
files.  A call to C.P. resulted in a "gee, I run the same version and  
haven't had that problem".  I learned later on the net that the  
backup program has/had a weakness when there were bad spots on the  
backup media.

I did not upgrade to version 7 because: 1) It didn't have any new  
features that I particularly needed; and 2) a lot of people on the  
net were having even more problems with 7.0 then I had with 6.  7.1  
was supposed to fix all this but I saw enough comments on the net to  
make me leery.  I had several responses from people who were running  
7.1 and had the same restore problems I had with version 6.  I no  
longer use PCBackup and have purchased FastBack.

Up until recently I had not had any problems with any of the other  
PCTools utilities and I still use PCCACHE.  However, I recently  
installed OS/2 in a disk partition to evaluate it for work.  PCFix  
(the utility that checks for screwed up disk files, directories,  
etc.) bitched about a bad partition table.  The first time I saw this  
it asked if I wanted to fix it, I replied "yes", and it screwed up my  
disk so bad I had to repartition, reformat, restore all partitions on  
that disk, and reinstall OS/2.  It still says that the partition  
table for that disk is bad even though neither Norton nor Mace find  
anything wrong with it.  I have now stopped using DiskFix and use  
Norton Utilities for that instead.

In summary, Central Point produced some really good software at one  
point but in the last year or two I have had enough problems that I  
no longer feel completely secure that their software is going to be  
reliable.  Posts on the net indicate that I am not alone in this and  
that some of the problems still persist with version 7.1.

You may have no problems.  On the other hand, you should be aware  
that not everyone has had good experiences with the reliability of  
their software.  

Oh, yes.  One other thing.

After I called Central Point and told them that I was unable to  
restore files from a backup taken 10 minutes before and getting the  
response that "mine doesn't do that" I later got a call from some guy  
at Central Point that wanted me to *BUY* the new version because it  
*might* fix my problem.
===========

Hi,
The first time I had to actually use my backup disks PCtools 7.1 
couldn't read one of the backup disks.  While this may sound like a 
media problem it was not. I had the same problem with several other
disks. The disks tested ok using other software. I've used PCtools
for several releases and my conclusion is that they rush to market
and worry about quality later. Not recommended (at least version
7.1).

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal E. Meyer                               | Internet: nem@udev.cdc.com

===========


pctools probably got a tarnished name when 7.0 came out.   There were a number
of problems with it , particularly when used on a network.  Other things like I
could never get the selective restore to work (possibly partly due to the
confusing options for different front ends/menus to each of the programs).

7.1 has solved the problems I had with 7.0.
I have used the backup with a CMS jumbo tape and got better compression than the
software from CMS.
The hard disk fix/test, and disk reliability test with extensive pattern
testing is good (though the disk test is a little slower than norton).
The disk fix does a good job of identifying problem sectors, recoverable or
unrecoverable, relocation and identification of which file, cluster, cyl hd
sector is involved and what the problem is.
The downside is it no longer all fits on one floppy. So you have to create a
floppy with a subset of functions (such as diskfix, backup etc). 

Ashley parish	daparish@biivax.dp.beckman.com 

===========


 For whatever it's worth, I have PCTOOLS 7.1 on my DOS box which is running
DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1. My main interest in it was the backup program and
the disk optimizer. I've had exactly zero problems with either. I do have
to exit window to compress the disk...but I generally have to exit windows
for a lot of things (like to get some work done in a reasonable amount of
time :). I don't know why people were blasting you. I paid $49.95 for PCTOOLS
7.1 AND CPAV -- I think I got a tremendous value for 50 bucks even though
out of all that all I am using is the backup and compression programs.

     Ed
rury@3cpu.rain.com
===========

From: SASTPH@vm.sas.com

PC Tools 7.1 comes with two versions of some of their programs, specifically
the backup program and the undelete program, one version for Windows and one
for DOS.  I had trouble with the Windows version of the backup program, but
the DOS version works fine.

Some people report no problems with the Windows version of the backup program.
I suspect my problems were, as most things are in the PC-world, configuration-
dependent.  Therefore the Windows backup program may work just fine for you.

HOWEVER!!!!! In my case, the backup program APPEARED to be working for me.
It would make backups with no problem.  But, when I needed to restore something
it couldn't find the file.  So, I strongly recommend that, if you try using
the backup program, don't just try backing up your disk, try restoring some
files, too.  If that works for you, wonderful.  Just don't get a false sense
of security just because the backup program appears to be working.

Hope this helps!

===========



Both the DOS and Windows versions of PCTools7 Backup work fine for
but that's probably because I've learned to avoid a Restore glitch 
I've found to be common to **both** programs.

After reading the last disk in your backup set to come up with a
directory, I've found it prudent to take this disk out once you've
selected your files for restore (and before you hit the Restore
button).

PCTools will likely want another disk for the restore and will
see that the last disk (still in the drive) is the wrong one.
If you let PCTools go through this step of looking at the last
disk upon restore, it may claim that the next disk you insert
is unreadable. Taking the last disk out before PCTools has a 
chance to look at it and figure out what it is seems to
eliminate this problem. (I've wrongly thought I had corrupted
backup sets on several occasions because of this. The backup
sets were completely fine once I changed my procedures.)

---

One last problem (annoying but easy to avoid) with the DOS
version happens with Backups. In text mode, highlighting
the "Start Backup" button and hitting return can cause PCT
to crash during the backup. I've found it much safer to
simply hit "S" to start backups.

Other that this, a truly superb suite of backup programs!
No, seriously...

.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Daniel W. Bise			         bise@aludra.usc.edu |

===========


I have no beef. It's an excellent program. It will not do as much
as Norton but covers 100% of what NORMAL users want. It's
not a power user tool although it is very versatile and powerful.

Disk recovery works best with their Mirror program running as a TSR
but that is not really needed for run of the mill file recovery and
disk checking. 

			   Danny Low
	     HP CPCD   dlow@pollux.svale.hp.com