HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:52:30 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <92284.1407302893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (corrigible) writes:
>Well, for one thing, the biblical messiah was supposed to liberate Palestine
>for the Jewish people, be a military or political leader.

Actually, there is supposed to be two messiahs - Moshiach ben Yosef
and Moshiach ben David.  Moshiach ben Yosef will be a decendant from
Jospeh - meaning from either the tribe of Menashe of Ephraim.
Moshiach ben David is the one most people speak of - a decendant of
King David.

The Moshiach ben Yosef will be a military leader who will liberate the
Jewish Nation.  He will be killed in battle.

The Moshiach ben David will be the king over the Jewish Nation after
the liberation is completed.

-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: The Principle of Education and Guidance
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:52:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.032950.21156@intacc.uucp> lazer@intacc.uucp (Lazer Danzinger) writes:
>Saunter into your local book store, and stroll down the 
>aisle displaying contemporary works by aspiring authors on 
>the subject of child-rearing. Leaf through the pages of a 
>few of the eye-catching titles. As an astute Jewish parent, 
>you will be amused undoubtedly by what you read. For todays 
>experts are still struggling to formulate a coherent and 
>tractable philosophy on child-rearing and education.
> 
>Almost ninety-five years ago, the previous Lubavitcher 
>Rebbe, Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn, of blessed memory, 
>at the age of seventeen, composed a concise but cogent work 
>on this very topic. It was entitled, "The Principles of 
>Education and Guidance." In this erudite yet accessible 
>text, the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe charted the course for 
>parents and educators alike. The principles he elucidates 
>are as refreshingly relevant today as they were in 1898. 
>Only nowadays, his sagacious insights are needed more than 
>ever before.

But why did you stop in 1898 ? In the same bookstore I am sure you
could find Aristo's Politics or Plato's Republic written over 2000
years ago, discussing vigorously the same question.

>----
>Rabbi Lazer Danzinger
>MASHIACH IS ON THE WAY-- Be a Part of It!

Dov
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: Conservative Choirs
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 09:47:58 GMT


In article <Bvxn0C.Drv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
|>However, I have attended Kol Nidre services in several congregations, and
|>it was always done by the cantor or choir.  One time at a conservative
|>synagogue in San Francisco, the opera singer Jan Peerce (sp?) had the honor.
|>--
Reminds me of a story I once heard (please feel free to add or correct as
needed). It seems that Jan Peerce (who is Jewish) was saying Kaddish, and
stepped into some small shteibel to daven maariv. Being a guest, the gabbai
asked him to daven. Well, to say the least, the gabbai was fairly impressed
with the voice, so after maariv he tells him that if he is looking for a few
extra bucks come the high holiday season, to come back and the gabbai will pay
him a bit to daven Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur...

--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 09:38:51 GMT


In article <ldjgaoINN9sj@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Silber) writes:
|>
|> Although I am a secular Jew and Israel is a modern nation state,
|> I often wonder what Israel will do to protect Jews in Europe or
|> America from resurgent racist lunacies.  Perhaps you will say that
|> it is not Israel's job to protect Ukrainian Jews or Latvian Jews or
|> German Jews or Croatian Jews.  What is the policy of Israel today
|> concerning resurgent anti-semitism in Europe ?
|>

Perhaps I do not understand the full meaning of this posting. If I do not, I
apologise in advance, but although I am a religious Jew and Israel is my home,
I often wonder what Israel will not do to protect Jews from resugent racist
lunacies. I think that the answer can be summed up in one word, and proven in
one sentence. The word is: ALIYA, and the sentence is: In the past 2.5 years
Israel has managed to absorb a LARGE number of Jews from the former Soviet
Union as well as Ethiopia and the only condition has been to come.
--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:58:12
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct15.171711.691674@locus.com>
	<1992Oct16.131246.22397@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Oct16.181931.23530@njitgw.njit.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu's message of 16 Oct 92 18:19:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.181931.23530@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

   In article <1992Oct16.131246.22397@athena.mit.edu> terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita) writes:
   >I'm sorry if you misunderstood -- it was not my intention to put down
   >women's traditional role in society.  Some women are very happy in this
   >role and thrive in it, and I say, more power to them.  However, some
   >women are not (my own mother, for example.)  The only problem I have
   >is with the notion that the traditional role is the only appropriate
   >role for women in society, or that women are biologically destined for
   >this role.  I think human beings are more complex than this.

   True, but when was the last time you saw a man get pregnant?  True,
   burdens should be shared equally among couples, wherever possible, but
   there are some that are biologically impossible for men to share.

Granted that some things are biologically possible only for men or for
women, but why should the biological possibilities dictate anything
outside of the realm of biology?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:34:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.221427.13770@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Oct10.213022.19279@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>>In article <CFMRBYYR@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>
>>>I was born Jewish and I had an Orthodox Jewish education.  I have abandoned
>>>Judaism because I came to recognize that it is sexist to the core.  The
>>>Tanach is a patriarchal body of literature which completely invalidates the
>>>history, experience, and contribution of women.  Jewish law, at least
>>>Orthodox Jewish law, is degrading to women.  Is there anyone out there who
>>>feels the same way?
>
>>Let me try to understand: If you believed that the Bible
>>is the word of God, how could God's words be degrading in any way ? I
>>understand that you have felt a contradiction  between modern Western
>>value system and the Bible, but if the Bible is the word of God why did 
>>you choose the Western values over the Bible's ?
>
>Dov, did she say anywhere that she considered
>the Bible to be the Word
>of God?  

She did not say it explicitly, but she talked about the Orthodox law,
which at least in part is believed to be the word of God. And
she had an Orthodox upbringing. 

But why not let Melanie explain the evolution of her value system ?

>Roger
>
Dov

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: d89-mor@nada.kth.se (Monika Orski)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:14:25 GMT


As my original post on this subject have caused a lot of discussion, I'll repeat
the main story :

|> An example : I spent a weekend in Warsaw in march 1992. I happened to live in a
|> hotel next to a church. The church had a bookshop. In the window of this bookshop
|> I noticed "The Protocols of the Elders of Sion" (correct english name?) in polish.
|> Polish friends told me the local priest of this church is known to be extremely
|> anti-semitic. I saw quite a lot of people coming out of this church after mass on
|> Sunday...
|> 

Well, I saw it being sold. I did not buy a copy or walk into the shop to ask if
the priest actually knew what they sold, but if I saw it he probably did too.
My point was that there is still anti-semitism in Poland, and selling "The protocols
of the Elders of Zion" in a church bookshop is anti-semitism to me.

I did not mean to offend anyone using the expression "Polish anti-semitism". To me,
it simply means anti-semitism in Poland.

I do not like Kahane or Khadaffi or the ayatollah and I have not killed anyone
recently (including palestinians). Do you people want to know the colour of my
eyes to determine if my posting is relevant? Or will a full CV do?

	m
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: George Eastman's musical descendant
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:50:02 GMT
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department


In rec.photo, I found:


In article <brein-061092091608@128.149.100.150> brein@gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Barry Rein) writes:
>In article <26587@castle.ed.ac.uk>, huw@castle.ed.ac.uk (H G J Evans)
>wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> In article <1992Oct5.194609.22413@news.media.mit.edu>
>> wave@waits.media.mit.edu (
>> Michael B. Johnson) writes:
>> >H G J Evans writes
>> >> In article <1992Oct4.025230.17209@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
>> andpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>>   
>> >writes:
>> >> >Does anyone know the name of a direct descendant of George Eastman
>> who is a
>> >> >MAJOR rock and roll star?
>> >>
>> >>....Linda Macartney stuff deleted....
>> >> 
>> >> Huw.
>> >
>> >This belongs in alt.urban-legends, guys...
>> >
>> >Linda McCartney is not George Eastman's direct descendant.  And if you 
>> >really think she is, I have a Neiman Marcus cookie recipe for you...
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> OK, somebody has already pointed out (correctly, for all I know) that
>> George Eastman had *no* descendants, but everything I have ever heard or
>> read on this subject suggests that Linda is, at least, 'closely'
>> related. I am not saying that I would consider the discovery that she is
>> a seventeenth cousin, twelve times removed, to be a complete
>> vindication, but I have always been given to understand that she was
>> (amongst how many others I don't know) in line of inheritance to the
>> Eastman estate. If anybody can prove me wrong, I am happy to be
>> corrected, but lets keep it on email, because it doesn't really seem to
>> belong on rec.photo.> 
>> 
>> Huw.
>
>I recently heard Linda McCartney interviewed on National Public Radio. She
>said her father, who was a well-known New York entertainment attorney,
>changed his name TO Eastman from Epstein.  She said she is Jewish, and
>totally unrelated to the founder of Kodak.



Is this true?


-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: * Yeshu ? *
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:52:22 GMT

warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein) writes:
>gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler) writes:

>> There is no n+1 "coming" for n not equal to zero.

>must n be an integer?

No.  But it must be real.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:24:48 GMT

In article <1bi5uiINN5ka@agate.berkeley.edu> lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>
>just a question:  How many men who defend the sex roles in 
>orthodox practice would switch places?  That is, stay home,
>have babies, look after the house, ask your wife when you want
>to go somewhere if she can drive you, and never have any time
>to study Torah (or very little)?  the obvious answer would be
>that women just naturally don't have to study Torah or that
>they don't want to.  Let's hear some non-obvious answers.

Why did not you post your name ?

Dov
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: *Jesus of Nazareth*
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:59:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: hrt213.9210141859.AA00633
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB

On Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:54:32 GMT, danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart) said:

 D> Check out the Monty Python Holy Grail where the monks walk around
 D> while hitting their heads with boards.  Check out the sect of Islam
 D> where they will whip themselves with thongs.  man is a strange
 D> creature.

	Self-flagellation has a long history in the Christian world.
During the Black Death, groups of penitents would roam the countryside,
torturing themselves and cajoling others to repent likewise.

	Of course, in these enlightened days, self-flagellation is
mostly recreational.  ;)

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Word of the Day: Plew."
From: naomis@michael.u.washington.edu (Naomi Silberstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:38:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct9.013829.3105
Organization: University of Washington

In article <1992Oct8.181710.203029@uctvax.uct.ac.za>  
naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.012828.24658@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>,  
boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi) writes:
> > We all know that Hebrew gave English words like camel, behemoth,  
leviathan,
> > amen, hallelujah, cane, etc.  I have collected some other English  
words,
> > each with a Hebrew word similar to it in sound and meaning. The  
Webster
> > dictionary does not indicate that any of these words does have a  
Hebrew
> > (or Arameic) origin; I wonder what other people think:
[ stuff deleted ]

One word who's etymology I have always suspected was from the Hebrew,
if only because the dictionary gave an uncertain origin, was

AMULET

my logic: prefix A, 
           
   __   || |_    __
  |  |       | \/  \
 _|  |      /   ___|


or, machshefa lo techyeh ( "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
being the usual translation -- somewhere in Vayikra (Leviticus).
I once heard that it was found as a charm against witches in the
Talmud somewhere. Hence, an amulet == a charm against witches,
written on paper, and worn around the neck.
  If anyone has evidence to confirm or deny, please let me know.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The name Yeishu (was Re: * Jesus *)
Keywords: Jesus
Date: 11 Oct 92 08:27:49 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct8.184003.203030@uctvax.uct.ac.za>
naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
> The Yeishu in the Talmud is clearly intended to be one person and
>Yeishu is certainly an ordinary name.
> It is still used as a Hebrew name for Jewish children today.

false

> shortened from of Yeishua (meaning "salvation") which despite the
> suspicious conotations is indeed a real name.

False

> There is one passage in the Talmud in which the full form Yeishua
>is used for Yeishu ha-Notzri.

False

                                  gideon ehrlich
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Heleocentric Cosmosology
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:49:54 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <93057@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:
>
>That's a misconception.  Educated people knew perfectly well that the world
>was round.  (The argument with Columbus was over the *size* of the Earth, not
>the *shape*, and Columbus was wrong.)

Yes, but the uneducated masses (such as many who were on his ships to
escape Spanish persecution) were still scared of falling over the
edge.  

He's really lucky that there was a contenant between Europe and the
Indies or they'd have died of starvation and other expeditions
wouldn't have set sail for quite some time afterwards.
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Land of Israel (Canaan only part of Israel)
Keywords: Israel borders
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:14:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Oct11.181443.203060
Organization: University of Cape Town

Tenth time lucky. I'm really having trouble posting to usenet today. Here goes
....


<stuff deleted>

>>                  Its southern border was common with the northern border of
>>the land of Havilah.
> 
>      This is new to me. What is your source?


I can't remember where I read it but the argument was based on passages in the 
Tanach.


>      As long as you rely on Gen. 15:18, you can hold that the River
> of Egypt is the Nile. However, Numbers 34:5, giving the borders of
> the land of Cana`an which was the whole inheritance of Bnei Yisrael,
> reads "nahla Misrayim". On this also opinions are divided. Some,
> following the ancient Targumim, do hold that it refers to the Nile.
> But R. Sa`adia Gaon translates it in his Arabic Tafsir by "Wad el-Arish",
> and later authorities follow his view (ET, p. 206). Do you still consider
> this a "modern nonsensical idea"?


This is interesting. If "nahla Mitzrayim" is really the Wadi el-Arish, I wonder
if this name came about because people tavelling from Canaan to Egypt would
sometimes mistake it for the real "nahar Mitzrayim".

I must admit that I did not realize that the question of Israels borders were
so complicated. (I know more about the ancient tribes in the area than about
borders.)


<stuff deleted> 
-- 
*****************************************************************************
* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "It's life Jim,                  *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
*                                                       Spock of Vulcan     *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Conservative Choirs
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:37:27 GMT

>At this distance, it's hard to say just what he was objecting to. 
>Choirs are pretty standard at conservative services, especially for
>Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, although a Hillel might not have the
>resources to organize one.  Many orthodox shuls have choirs 
>(generally all male).  Presumably the style of the service, and 
>perhaps the role of the choir (if it did more than conservative 
>choirs usually do), bothered him.  

My only experience with a Conservative synagogue choir was in the
early 1960's (in my early teens). My feeling then was that it made
a farce of the entire service.

The synagogue (Temple Beth El in Margate, NJ) had been founded in
the late 1950's, as Jews were moving out of Atlantic City into
the other towns on Absecon Island, and we did not have a Cantor.
For the High Holidays, a quartet was hired to accompany the Rabbi,
who davened the large-crowd services (on RH, these are the
Torah Service and Musaf; on YK, there are Kol Nidre/Ma'ariv,
the Torah Service, Yizkor, and Musaf, and Ne'ilah).

The main problem I had with the choir was that instead of supplementing
or taking over for the leader, they were taking over for the
congregation, like when they went into their choral rendition
of "zochreinu l'chaim" during the repetition of the Amidah.  It's
one thing to provide a melodious voice for the congregation to
sing with; it's another thing completely to perform an operetta
in lieu of the congregation doing their own praying.

And of course, you've never lived until you've had to stand for
over an hour as they and the Rabbi performed the Kol Nidre
overture.

I guess what it comes down to is this-  I don't mind a choir that
provides a voice for the congregation to sing with, and I don't
mind a choir that chants the lines typically reserved for or
along with the person leading the service, but I don't like
a situation where the choir takes over the congregation sing-alongs.
 
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ST403315@brownvm.brown.edu (Antonio Zelic)
Subject: david
Organization: Brown University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 05:05:09 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish