Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Allmighty God
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:05:51 GMT
 <fRJgrkL@quack.sac.ca.us> <adams.714836722@spssig> 
 <BtLv2F.Cp7@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> <adams.714863644@spssig> <BtM79E.FEq@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>
Organization: SPSS Inc.

pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:

>In article <adams.714863644@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>As for Pi, the exact value is defined as (circumf)/(diameter).  Given
>>enough time, and enough compute power, you could print digits of Pi until
>>the end of the universe.  No different than your God telling you the
>>number.

>Oh, it's a bit more complicated than that. But you do agree that knowing the
>real value of Pi is a sign of power and allmightyness? Perhaps even
>transcendent of time?

Sure. And my God fits that.  He is trancendent of time...

>>>Ah, but once created, She would then lift it, thus creating a miracle. 

>>But then she has violated the test.  The test was to create something so
>>big she could not lift it.  She couldn't do it!  By lifint the boulder, she
>>failed!

>Nope, that's why it was a miracle that She could lift something that She
>created that She could not lift. 
No matter what, even if the lifting is miraculous, she has failed the test.
Period.  To pass the test, she must never, under any (including miraculous)
circumstances be able to lift it.  If she can lift it, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES, then she has NOT created something that she cannot lift.

>You do agree that being able to lift something that you can't lift is 
>miraculous? Of course, you can then be the Devil's advocate and say, "all 
>right, create something so heavy that even a miracle couldn't lift it". And 
>She would of course. Then you would say, "OK now not even a miracle can allow 
>you to lift this thing!" And She would say, well yes, this is true, my 
>foolish little man. And then she would take a deep breath, smile, and She 
>would create a miracle so great that it would create a miracle that could 
>lift the thing that was so heavy that no miracle could lift it. 
This violates the challenge.  If she violates the challenge, she hasn't
passed it, she has sidestepped it.  Period.

>Now do you see what it is to BE THE CREATOR? 
Clearly.  As I did before.

>The creator of all, transcendent of all limitation. Look it up in the 
>dictionary. Now that you've seen the light, stand up for your right!
Sure.  Without limitation.  Thus, since there is no limit to how large a
item she can create, and there is no limit to how large an item she can
lift, she cannot possibly meet the challenge.  It is a logical
impossibility.  It is a false test.

It's along the lines of 'Have you stopped beating your wife?' and you may
only answer yes or no.

>>>So how do you cope
>>>with a God who is not allmighty and only knows Pi to one digit? 

>>I don't believe in plenary verbal inspiration.  Blame the author of the
>>document who chose to use aproximate values or didn't measure properly.  He
>>did get darn close, considering.

>Well, kind of close, I suppose. Bit of a rush job if you ask me. Try it for 
>yourself, it's not like it takes the brain of Einstein or anything. Not exactly
>what I would call devine inspiration. Certainly not a carpenter.

Uhm, a carpenter (I assume you mean Jesus) DIDN'T write it!  The book of Kings 
is attributed to Jeremiah by Jewish tradition, but that is not accepted by 
modern scholarship.  The author appears to have written from other sources,
including historical and prophetic texts.  It is likely that the author
wrote during the pre-exilic period in Judah, but this is by no means
certain.  The possible dates run through the 6th century BC.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc