HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:29:40 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
:
: 	I have the book "OS/2 - How We Made History", and on page 32 it says,
: and I quote myself when I say, 
:

Who wrote this?

:
: 	"After lots of planning, we decided that OS/2 needed a good solid
: base to develop on, so we decided to copy everything that we thought was
: good about the AmigaOS, and then we had the skeleton for OS/2. We then
: multiplied the overhead and size of the executables by 10x to prove that it
: was meant to run on IBM clones."
: 	

Are you seriously trying to submit this clearly sarcastic and fanatical
statement as proof of your claim?

:
: 	He said 'comparable', not 'fast or powerful'. Actually, it is anyway,
: so your point is moot. AGA moves sprites an infinite time faster than SVGA.
: Animation is also faster, and special screen handling is much better.
:

But the resolution is lower, and in the high resolution modes, it's quite
slow.  Local bus SVGA blows it away for GUI use.  When there's a need for
things like CPUBlit, there's got to be something wrong with the hardware.

:
: Plus AGA is a standard, and SVGA is not. 
:

Uh-huh.  Commodore already has three such "standards", right?
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:25:28 GMT

In <1993Jan5.210135.29840@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Windows programs run in Protected Mode, which uses virtual addressing.
>You thought you were overwriting DOS, but you probably overwrote something
>else.

It is a bit difficult to use different addresses for reading and writing at the
same time if you use the same virtual address.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:56:59 GMT

>In fact, his statement should be very much true. The '040 uses the same
>"double clock" technique that exists in 486DX2's. So, to be fair,
>the '040/25 should be compared with 486DX2/50 (and '040/33-486DX2/66).

Funny, my literature about the 040 doesn't mention this double clock
stuff....are you trying to imply that the 040 goes twice the speed of
the motherboard, like the DX2?

>But even then, the '040 is probably faster than the 486 (depending
>on application). The 486 is not much more than an optimized 386 with
>embedded FPU. The '040 on the other hand is quite an upgrade from '030.
>In my opinion, the 680x0 series is much more modern than the Intel CPU's.

Sure the 486 is just an optimized 386.  That's what the whole "RISC"
thing is about.  New CPU's aren't supposed to add instructions, just
optimizations!  And since the 486 runs twice (if not more) as fast at
the same clock speed, I think they've done a good job.
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 02:49:40 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>Why don't you just call Creative Computers and get one?  I paid less than
'>$2800 before the price cuts and I'd bet that they are even less expensive
'>now.  It's as easy as calling Gateway 2000...

	It's a moot point now.  My local dealer has them for $2690 under the
   powerup deal.  I wanted to get my next Amiga from a local dealer, since
   I had such bad luck with my A500 that I bought mail-order.  That and I am
   unsure as to what Commodores policy is for getting Amigas through mail-
   order.   For a while there they didn't allow it, did they?  What about the
   warranty on Amigas bought through mail-order?  If something goes wrong, do
   I have to send it back to the mail-order firm, or can I take it to any
   local authorized CBM service center?

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


'>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
'>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:21:59 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>What BS.  The benchmarks posted here showed that a 486DX is slightly
>*faster* at integer performance than a 68040 running at the same MHz.  A
>486DX2 is *much* faster.  If you're going to flame me for trusting benchmarks,
>please provide a better measurement.

You trusted benchmarks posted in an advocacy group? :-)

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics"

And then there are benchmarks...

	Mark

-- 
      "We all want to be Obi Wan Kenobi,       \ Mark Steyn :          \
  But there's a little Darth Vader in us all"   \ marks@castle.ed.ac.uk \
           Chris, Northern Exposure              \ mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     \
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 05:28:48 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.001113.6264@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>YOU think about it.  Take a non-VM system with the same amount of RAM.  As
>soon as IT reaches the limit, it will stall until you turn off the computer
>and reboot.

I beg your pardon?  Are you trying to tell me that my computer, when
it runs out of available memory, totally locks up, and I must reboot?

Not.  I just free up some resources, and continue where I left off.
If Windows locks up, then you need a new operating system, not VM.
Poor handling of low-memory situations was a problem that people were
angry about in 1.3, and it's gone.

>Or to free up RAM for more applications through the use of demand paging.
>It would be nice if the Amiga had a similar stopgap.

An opinion, at best.  Code size is NOTHING compared to the size of the
data in situations of large memory usage, generally.

Greg



--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jasonb@cs.uwa.oz.au (Jason S Birch)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 07:31:24 GMT

Since we're talking about icons: the time it takes to generate the icons
when the disk is being read is a bit excessive, even on a hard disk (or
ram disk!)... I know it's because all the .info files have to be searched
for and read, and I know the mac stores them all in a single "desktop" file,
which is why it's so fast, but can't anything be done? Opening a drawer with
a lot of files can be a frustrating experience :-(

Also, perhaps multiple images could be stored in each .info for different
WB depths, so icons could look good in 2-colour mode and 256-colour mode?

Later,
Jason.
-- 
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: jasonb@cs.uwa.edu.au
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): +61 9 380 1840
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): +61 9 380 1126
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): +61 9 386 8630
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amiga and Macintosh Printing
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:31:25 GMT

In <C0IysA.KHH@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   HA!  The Amiga's print system has to be the most INflexible printing systems
>around.  If it is so flexible, why hasn't something like Adobe Type Manager
>ever been written for the Amiga?  I really don't think something like Adobe
>Type Manager would  even be possible on the Amiga, because there is nothing in
>the printing system for such a utility to wedge itself to.

Think again. There is no _need_ for a utility to wedge to. ATM is fairly
new to the Macintosh, before that you could only use Postscript printers
(or use the lousy excuse for quality on the Imagewriter). Since an application
just specifies a font name one has to intercept operating system calls
to get good results on 'dumb' printers.

>   On both Macintosh and Windows, ATM is totally invisible to both
>applications and the user.  When an application tries to print a document with
>a bitmapped font, if a PostScript Type 1 replacement is available, the outline
>font is used instead, at the highest resolution of the printer.

Which is actually the difference between an RTG system and a DIG system.
On the Mac a program specifies a font to be n points in size, on the Amiga
a program specifies a font to be n pixels in size. It has to query the
output device to determine the needed pixel resolution.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:40:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jpelkone@vipunen.hut.fi (Janne R M Pelkonen) says:

>In article <C0n57o.GDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>Give me a bfeak.  Let's not forget who wrote OS/2.  IBM.  THEY invented
>>REXX.  THEY were multitasking before you were born.  So what in OS/2
>	
>	THEY also invented IBM PC. THEY were singletasking before Amiga
>	was born, and most of THEM still are :)
>	BTW, REXX is from mainframe world, right? Its pretty far from
>	microcomputers, which are the subject here.

Well, since both the Amiga and OS/2 have a version of REXX I'd say the subject
is right on target.

-- 
Pete Babic  -  pab@po.cwru.edu          ///
LIVE TO PARTY, SKI TO DIE!!!           ///  /\
Member of ACE                    \\\  ///  /--\MIGA  
(American Coaster Enthusiasts)    \\\/// MS-DOS or a Mac? What's that?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:30:51 GMT

In article <C0CHqr.EEB@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:
>     First of all, "doesn't do it the Mac way"  !=  "completely broken".
>I have yet to accidentally drop something where I didn't want it.  Besides,
>if Commodore duplicated too many finder features, they'd get into a 
>Look and Feel battle.

   Commodore has already ripped box selecting and the 3.0 palette tool from
the Apple Macintosh.  Why stop there?

>>   Another feature that is totally broken on the Amiga is launching of 
>>applications by double-clicking a project.  On the Macintosh, when you
>
>     Funny, it works for me.  Must only be broken on your system.

   What happens if you give a text file a project icon, enter "c:more" in
the tooltypes for the icon, and "more" is not in the "c:" directory?  Do
you get an "Unanble to open your tool 'c:more'" requester?  This does not
happen on the Macintosh.

>     Hmmm... double-clicking is "totally broken", or so you said before, but
>now you're saying it works if you've got the file in the right place?

   If something works in a few cases, that does not necessarily mean that it
isn't broken.  
>      I'd prefer it f more folks just put a tool name (sans full path) into
>project icons.  That way when the icon is clicked it will search the current
>directory and the path for the appropriate tool.  This seems to be a 
>reasonable solution.

   That would not fix any of the archives on the nearly 800 Fish disks, that
already have projects with hard-coded paths for the needed utilities.  
Soething needs to be added to the OS so that the OS can go searching for a
utility if it isn't found in the hard-coded path in a project's tooltypes.

>[TeachText, NotePad, and AmigaGuide stuff deleted]
>
>     It's my understanding that via datatypes in 3.0 AmigaGuide can be
>(is being, will be... something along those lines) extended to handle sound,
>graphics, etc.

   Will this extended AmigaGuide and all of the needed support files to
handle graphics and sound be made standard software with the Amiga?  The
nice thing about Macintosh TeachText is that it is ready-to-go.  You can 
read a document with text and color graphics immediately after using the
computer for the first time, without having to set anything up.

>     Well, what about those under-the-surface features like pre-emptive
>multitasking?  That's definitely "completely broken" on the Mac,

   I've already admitted that, but this is comp.sys.amiga, after all.  And
this is a discussion of the problems of the Amiga OS.  Besides, Apple manages
to sell three times as many Macintoshes as Commodore sells Amigas, every
year, in spite of the inelegance of the underlying Mac OS.  This shows how
much Commodore needs to shift their priorities from the underlying OS to
what's on the surface.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: thom@crayfish.ucsd.edu (Thom Cleland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:19:01 GMT
Organization: Tenuous at best
NNTP-Posting-Host: crayfish.ucsd.edu

In article <1ig2veINN5mh@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>'>CORRECTION!  $2700 is more the selling price of the Amiga 4000.  You wanna
>'>quote retail prices for the Amiga, then you'd better do the same thing for
>'>the compatibles, to be fair.  Naturally, this is what I expected from some
>'>Ms-Dog-Head comparing Apples and Oranges. :)
>
>	CORRECTION!  YOU might be able to get an Amiga 4000 for $2700, but 
>   that is not the absolute selling price.  Its $3200 without monitor around 
>   here, $3700 with A1960.  So the other persons prices may be quite accurate
>   I'm afraid.
>
>							Greg Greene
>                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu
>
I think that the $2700 price might be the PowerUp price for the A4000.
Not certain; check c.s.a.announce for the details.  It was in the $2000s
with any other Amiga.  

Thom

-- 
Thom Cleland     \ /^^/  >Neural systems/network physiology< >Amigaphile<  
(619) 453-7516    \OO/  >Aoinagi Shito-ryu == bend, and the wind passes <
tcleland@ucsd.edu  ++  >B3 f cdv g++ k+(+) m s+ r+ p growl+ purr++ zzz- <
"Wild magic is graven in every rock, every tree, in every blade of grass" 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Keywords: Spam AGA Amiga
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: world,public
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:41:17 GMT

In article <1ikbncINN6cb@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David Stuve) writes:
>Lots of people have told me if I don't like it, just stay away...
>I'll tell you why I don't stay away:  Occasionally somebody
>comes on and posts news, amiga sightings, new product info, what
>they want to see on the Amiga, etc.

News and new product info can be found in .announce, sightings and
want lists can be found in .misc.  Yes, rumors and other jucy stuff
are posted here, but the price you have to pay for that is heavy use
of your 'k' key.

>It still seems to me that this is the true .advocacy stuff, and that
>the other BS (flame wars, mostly) deserves to be in a comp.sys.amiga.flames
>group.

This group was created for flames.  Check out ANY .advocacy group.

>BTW, not one person responded with what they want to see on the Amiga.
>Sigh.

I'd like to see a 4000 on my desk.

>-David
>David Stuve                          | InterNet: dstuve@storm.cs.orst.edu

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: VistaPro & clones
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 16:13:32 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan4.153339.22764@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
  <1993Jan4.205610.27828@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>

>
>	Harv, your method works fine on "Groups", but does not actually
>'delete' the files off of the hard disk.  I use windows 3.1 at work (and
>am typing in this message under it) and I can say without at doubt that
>deleteing directories that have files and subdirectories beneath them
>is a terrible bother.  I'm not going to bother to ask purchasing to
>shell $99 for the program, however, as I believe now that it is out
>someone will develop a PD version... I hope!
>
>	--Pete

Pete... method? I didn't name any method. That was Jerry Scheckel our
friendly neighborhood Windows advocate here in the Amiga groups :)
Your version of the trouble of deleting dirs and subdirs under
Windows and his seem to be wildly different. He says it's simple.
You say it's a terrible bother. All I said was that I found it amusing
that someone is now selling a $99 "solution" to this problem
or non-problem. I don't own a Windows-equipped machine, I own and
use Amigas, but I have twiddled with a few friends' Windows boxes
and wasn't too enamored with the way they operated. But from your
posting and a lot of similar ones, I gather that the Windows
"experience" isn't far off from the picture Apple paints of it in
there recent Mac commercials.. y'know the two company execs 
sitting there with manuals open, scratching their heads as they
try to make their office "more productive" and the woman who walks
buy and tells them "if we get any more productive we'll be out
of business."

Harv
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: esc@mits.mdata.fi (Henri Tamminen)
Subject: Oh no...
Organization: Microdata Oy
Distribution: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:16:24 GMT

Preparing myself for F L A M E S...

BUT what is so special about computers, that every where I go, I bump into some group of fanatics, who can't understand, that some other computer might be better. I have owned or used many kind of computers, and have friends who could be labeled as advocates ( of Amiga, Macintosh or PC ).

Most funny about it, is that in they fervor they fail to see any BAD points.
For GAMES MACHINE I would choose FAST PC with soundcards SoundBlaster AND Roland MT32. With this RAW POWER and GOOD SOUNDS (mainly by MT32), not to forget mediocore graphics it will bust Amiga as a games machine out of the sky. And don't tell me, that I dont have special graphics chip. No I don't, BUT I HAVE RAW POWER more than enough!!! I remember a story saying, that why would someone use OS/2 2.0 to run Windows applications and slow machine about 30%??? At the time I did so ( because I hate windows :-) 



and I like to have TRUE multi-tasking ) because apps were good and I did have a 50MHz 486DX, so slowing 30%? SO WHAT! It was still as fast as 33MHz 486DX and performance was instantenous. 

For WORK, like image processing, DTP etc. I would choose FAST Macintosh and live happily with it.

For ALL AROUND hacking and backing, I THINK, that I would choose Amiga 3000 or 4000, with mediocore games but with good multimedia and graphics programs. The point is, that not like Macintosh, software (and I mean most of it) don't know how to use 24-bit color which for me is essential. The so G R E A T ( YAKKK!! ) AGA chip SUCKS!!!! because it is actually piece of shit with stupid resolutions ( not high enough ). lousy colors ( not many enough with good resolutions ) and FLICKER!!! Can't they do something



 about it!!!

The end point is, that for first time after A1000 and A3000, there is machine I generaly like, A4000. Bad points go for AGA chip set ( not good enough, actually nothing to get exicited for), unatractive case design, IDE connector (SCSI is a way to future) and unatractive GUI (WB 3.0). To sum it up, it (A4000) will be my machine of choice, when it has good resolutions with good colors. Sounds are ok for free.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 13 Jan 1993 00:41:47 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0qEn2.EKo@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   HA!  That'll be the day!  How is Commodore going to improve the printing of
>outline fonts when the OS lacks even the barest of font-substitution features
>to make improvements possible?  Unfortunately, outline font support has been

One must simply develop a new system of printing, other than going
directly to the device itself.  Another layer, if you will.

>   As for RTG, its eventual release will be no panacea for the Amiga. 

File one disagreement.

>Commodore will have simply finally caught up with where the Macintosh was
>in 1987, where Windows was three years ago, and where OS/2 was last year.

Umm, no, you're wrong.  That would be DIG, and with DIG comes a
generally large speed penalty.  RTG is a different beast, though it
looks similar.

>RTG is a beginning, not an end.  With RTG in place, the Amiga would still
>lack the applications to take advantage of it.  And applications are 
>everything in the personal computer industry.

You say you're CS, so figure it out:  Why, oh why would we lack
applications to make use of RTG?  RTG will be _INVISIBLE_ to any
program which uses the display database under 2.0x and beyond, and
controlled promotion can handle the other cases.  You seem to refuse
to understand rather basic concepts.  The applications which use RTG
are HERE NOW, they await the OS.

Have you figured it out yet?  It's something they must do within
graphics.library, and it has nothing to do with applications--it's
already done, as of 2.04's display database.  You _DO_ know what the
display database is, don't you?  Well, think of the modes on a card as
appearing in there, magically, for you to select.

After all, that _IS_ what we're talking about.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)