HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A confession
Keywords: veggie
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:34:31 GMT
Reply-To: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Dec16.175303.29044@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
tgeorge@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (timothy.d.george) writes:
# 
# I confess.
# 
# There are no real vegetarians. Those who claim they are vegetarians are
lying
There are no unreal vegetarians either...

# to others or to themselves.

Actaully they are lying to the pixies...

# The scientific evidence is in: a vegetarian diet will kill you in 127 days

I thought it was 63 days...

# (a proven FACT). A vegan diet will kill you in 95 days (not proven, but
well

Sorry but this is patently false, a vgean diet will kill you wehenever it
feels like
it...
# known, and anyway it's vegetarian so 127 days stands.)

unlesse you're a vegan where 1 - 127 e95.63789654321123456789 is the currently
known
range.

# Like many who post to rec.food.veg, I used to claim I was a vegetarian: I 
# thought I was. Most of you are probably misled that way.
# 
# My wife finally confronted me with the hideous truth: I was sleep-walking to
# the local burger chain each night and scarfing down burgers. At first I
denied

Sleep walking?!!!! that's for wimps, come on you'vw got to be totally stoned
and
invisible to any know method of detection before you can do this
convincingly!!!

# it, just like I ignored the FACT that vegetarian diets kill you. Then,
after
# years of therapy, I admitted my weakness and admitted that vegetarians don't
# exist.

Actually not only do thwy not exist, but neither does the food they claim to
eat
or the people they claim eat meat...
 
# Now, I proudly go to my local burger chain three times a week and fill up
on

three times  week to a burger chain that doesn't exist?!!! should be 20 times
a 
second to a chain that hasn't ever been concieved of... !!!!!


# wholesome meat-nutrients. You would all do well to follow my example.
# 
#  		:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
# 
# Smileys provided so that this will not be taken out of context and quoted
over
# and over on talk.politics.animals and alt.mcdonalds as a serious
confession.

:) :-) :---) :------------------) :-> ;-) '-) `-) .-) _)) &-) *-) !@#$$% -) 

No comment!!!!????>>>><<<<,,,...777***55%%$$3#2!@#!@#$^%*^%^#$!@%@!#12

James

-- 
*  James Hammerton               *  If Pascal is equivalent to the     *
*  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.aisb   *  mini-metro,then ML is the concept  *
*                                *  car where steering is done         *
*                                *  recursively using the gearstick.   *
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:11304 sci.med.nutrition:1619 alt.med.cfs:143 sci.med:22732 alt.meditation.transcendental:352 dc.general:3220
From: jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Jeantheau)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition,alt.med.cfs,sci.med,alt.meditation.transcendental,dc.general
Subject: HELP: macrobiotics in DC area
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:08:53 GMT
Reply-To: jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Jeantheau)
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Distribution: dc
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Can anyone direct me
1) to organizations that help people learn the ways of macrobiotics  and/or
2) to MDs that base their curative practices in macrobiotics.

I'm particularly interested in the cure of serious illness through
macrobiotics. Prefer organizations/physicians in or near Montgomery County.


PLEASE E-MAIL.  Thanks!


-----
jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil // Mark Jeantheau // (202) 227-3562 // U.S. Navy
Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Div. // Code 1401 // Bethesda MD 20084
-----
Opinions expressed herein blah blah blah... [Standard disclaimer.]
-----
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@shakti.ncst.ernet.in (A.Bulsari -c/o. Dr. Ramani)
Subject: test
Organization: National Centre for Software Technology, Bombay
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 08:19:15 GMT

test


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Easy? (was: McDonalds Veggie burger)
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:36:47 GMT

In article <c188-am.724300457@po.berkeley.edu> c188-am@po.berkeley.edu  
(Leor Jacobi) writes:
> 
> "GIVE ME CONVENIENCE OR GIVE ME DEATH!"
> 			-- Dead Kennedys
> 
> Why aren't there more vegetarians?
> Its too hard.
> Time is money and as long as someone can go into a McDonalds and buy a
> burger for $.39 they are going to be very reluctant to give it up.

Well, maybe if you want INSTANT convenience this is true.

But if you actually cook your own food, veggies are much quicker.
I remember in my omnivore days having to decide in the morning or
night before so I could take the dead animal out of the freezer.
Now very little of my regular food is frozen. The freezer is mostly
full of peaches, pumpkin, etc from summer. Even when veggies are
frozen they can be thawed lots faster (mainly by cooking) without doing
any damage.

And lots of veggies can be eaten raw. Think of the convenience!

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray)
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:09:24 GMT

In article <50628@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:
>
>Is this rec.food.veg? When I am interested in carpentry I shall look for
>the appropriate newsgroup and I will carefully read both what the
>carpenters and the non-carpenters have to say.
>

The only posts I can remember from Steve, Rich et. al.  are responses to
unsubstantiated and often outright wrong assertions by other posters about
vegetarianism usually about the health effects thereof.  I for one am quite
happy to have them here, and if it matters I'm a vegetarian.

				--robert
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Doggerel 
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:51:01 GMT

twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:


>This was in the syndicated "Mike Mailway" column in this morning's 
>paper; I thought it might amuse. 

>Q.  What's the "Vegetarian Chant"? 

>A.  "Elephants, turtles and birds.  Elephants, 
>    turtles and birds.  Vegetarians like to repeat, 
>    These are the beasts that eat no meat, and 
>    live the longest lives, without a need for 
>    butcher knives.  Never a steak or chop or 
>    roast.  Vegetarians, the nerds, love to 
>    boast with lots of words, why they indeed 
>    admire most -- elephants, turtles and birds." 

>(Birds??) 

And redwood trees?  If one can't knock on wood, should one
instead knock on a vegetarian?   :-)

					ted


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Toronto! Re: World Guide to Vegetarianism - 1/5 - Intro
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:51:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.174629.6930@bmerh85.bnr.ca> mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom) writes:
>In addition, I believe that the following cities could have their
>listings greatly improved, so if you're from one of these cities,
>please consider becoming a regional co-ordinator, or at least send
>me a listing for your area.
>  Toronto, Canada

I would offer to be co-ordinator for Toronto but I don't have enough net
access time to do much of any use.  There is a ton of information for
vegetarians in the _Toronto_Vegetarian_Handbook_, edited by Steve Leckie.
It costs 2 or 3 bucks and you can contact the Toronto Vegetarian Association
to get a copy at (416)533-3897.  Their address is 736 Bathurst St. T. O.
M5S 2R4.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:56:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.062306.25718@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>Imagine a group for women where one or two men come and shout "Women
>are silly inferior creatures." Substitute the word vegetarians for
>women and others for men.

Sorry Abhay, this does not follow.  There is quite a difference between
saying "All X are silly inferior creatures" and "what person X said is
not correct".  Sorry if logic this escapes you.  You can consider this a
response, like much of what I write here, as an example of the second
argument.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor Jacobi)
Subject: Re: Let them eat grass!
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:12:17 GMT


I have this sneaking suspicion that before we reach the level of technology,
our extrememly arrogant species will probably f$*& up more ecosystems than 
anyone would consider "ethical".
Alan Miller's "Gaia Connections" has some interesting commentary on the ethics
of Boitechnology.  It is a potent force.  I hope our culture is mature enough
to use it wisely.  I fear that it is not.

Leor J
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: barry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Barry Sanders)
Subject: Guiness beer and meat
Summary: information on Guiness beer
Keywords: Guiness,beer
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:23:54 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor Jacobi)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:58:10 GMT

young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.170523.22855@psych.toronto.edu> michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Dec11.011125.11182@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:

>[...]

>>>The idea of extending compassion to plants is not easy to digest, but if
>>>your "ethical category" relates  to only those life forms YOU so conveniently
>>>choose to include, while excluding other deserving of this compassion, then
>>>you are unfortunately a hypocrite.
>>
>>
>>I take it you avoid such hypocricy by only eating rocks?

>	Or perhaps there is a simple acceptance that, for humans to live,
>	some other species must die...and that the death of one species is
>	no more or less significant than the death of another.

No.
No.
No.
For example
The death of a cow is more significant because along with its death comes
the deaths of every single organism it had to eat.
Eating low on the food chain wreaks less havoc to our planet.

EATING ANIMALS = KILLING MORE PLANTS

The bulk of all plant food grown in this country is grown to feed to
livestock.

--
Leor Jacobi                ,__o |"I came across a butcher who was slaughtering
leor@ocf.berkeley.edu    _-\_<, | a lamb.  I accused him there with his tor-
c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (*)/'(*)| tured lamb.  He said "Listen to me child.  I
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| am what I am, and you are my only son." -L.C.
From: rwaigh@zooid.guild.org (Rosemary Waigh)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Plant pain?!
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:10:54 GMT
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids


I read _The_Secret_Life_of_Plants_ about a year ago and found it not at all
convincing.  But for those r.f.v.ers who might be concerned for the poor
plants they kill, here is a reassuring note from Cleve Backster, plant pain
researcher:

"Some of Cleve's discoveries are amusing, but nonetheless of serious
significance, such as the vegetable caper.  Electrodes are attached to three
different kinds of fresh vegetables.  Then 'someone' (not Cleve, he's too
sympathetic to his new friends) - so someone else chooses one of the three
vegetables to be dropped into boiling water, as restaurants do with those poor
live lobsters.  The one selected 'faints' before it's even touched, the
instant it's selected in the mind of the chooser - that is, it registers on
the graph paper a sudden upward sweep, followed abruptly by a straight line
indicating 'unconsciousness.' ...

"This is certainly a comforting discovery to me, since I hate to put carrots in
a juicer, slice a tomato, and so forth.  Now I know they'll go into a sort of
anesthetic coma as soon as they 'realize' what's going to happen, and won't
feel anything.  Cleve believes one should notify the food in advance that it's
about to become part of the food chain, so it can put itself into a protective
and painless faint or coma, which is what the ancient Tibetan monks used to do:
apologize aloud to the food before they prepared it or ate it."

-- Linda Goodman, _Linda_Goodman's_Star_Signs_, pp 370-371.

Disclaimer:  I question whether plants feel pain.  But those who claim that 
   they do should note that even the researcher who made plant pain famous tells us
   that the plants we eat faint before we touch them and thus do not suffer
   (unlike animals).
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
From: demers@mdcbbs.com (Diane DeMers)
Date: 11 Dec 92 09:54:53 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA

In article <1992Dec10.215820.28165@microsoft.com>, leecr@microsoft.com (Lee Crocker) writes:
|> In article <GROVE.92Dec9174512@paddy.uk.tele.nokia.fi> grove@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Paddy Grove) writes:
|> 
|> >    But I'd like to think most vegetarians will still refuse to give
|> >financial support to a company like McDonalds....
|> 
|> Then you think incorrectly.  The growing hordes of vegetarians creating
|> a market for mass-produced consumer goods like McVeggies is precisely
|> what we need to raise the consciousness of more businesses in the food
|> industry, and stimulate more consumer interest, which provides a bigger
|> market, which...
|> 
|> I am amazed they haven't done this already, and I'll be first in line
|> here in the US to make sure they succeed.
|> 

Me, too. I can't be the only lurking omnivore :-) interested in 
reducing the consumption of meat. If McD offered a reasonably
palatable veggie-burger, I'd get it every time I'm roped into
going there by my folks, who think McD's is just the greatest :-(

Maybe it wouldn't increase their total business very much, but
I'd bet they'd be surprised at the proportion of veggie-burgers 
sold. Just because someone gets a veggie-burger, it doesn't have
to mean they're a rampaging, tree-hugging eco-nazi :-)
So maybe they have a Bic Mac the next time; any reduction in
the amount of meat consumed is a help. I think the most important
thing is to get the veggie diet into the 'mainstream', so that 
eating a veggie meal isn't looked upon with suspicion, but just 
accepted as a part of a healthy diet.

diane
-- 
Diane DeMers - demers@ug.eds.com - (714) 952-6571 EDS Unigraphics Div.
   snail-mail: 10824 Hope Street, Mail Stop 2S-137, Cypress, CA 90630
   *** generic disclaimer ***
From: c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor Jacobi)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Organically grown foods (was Re: What's the Best Juicer)
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:50:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steven L. Hopper) writes:

>georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

>>If organically grown foods do taste better, are better for the environment,
>>and everything else, then I wonder why fertilizers and pesticides are
>>used at all. There's got to be some profit-motivated reason, but I don't
>>know what it is.

>>I dislike the dyes and waxes used to make produce appear to be something
>>it is not. There is nothing unhealthy about it, but it is dishonest because
>>dyes and waxes misrepresent the quality of the produce to the consumer.


>I imagine your guess of a profit-motivated reason hits the nail on the
>head.

>I just heard earlier this week, on a morning talk show, that most of the
>fruits and veggies that this country consumes in the winter come from 
>countries that use pesticides that are banned in this country!  
>Bananas were cited as particularly heavily abused in this category.  
>I'm wondering, would the sprays, etc., used on these fruits be systemic 
>or does all the "yuk" remain on the skins only.  I of course know about 
>the gassing of bananas for ripening purposes, but that's not what the 
>focus of the information was referring to.

>What the hell good is banning DDT, for instance, if the FDA permits food
>to be imported grown with these very same products!
>Steve

Why, no good at all...

"'Look at the mess we've gotten ourselves into,' Colnel Aureliano Buendia
  said at that time, 'just because we invited a gringo to eat some bananas.'"
			--Gabriel Garcia Marquez,
			One Hundred Years of Solitude


In Harper's Style:

Total Volume, in pounds, of bananas imported by the
United States from 1983 to 1985		17,620,058,245

Total number of imported bananas tested for pesticide
residues during the same period		160

Percentage of pesticides used on bananas that can
be detected				less than 50

Percentage of pesticides exported from the United
States that are restricted or illegal to use inside
the country				25

Percentage of all pesticides that are used in the
Third World				20

Percentage of all pesticide accidents that occur in the 
Third World				50% of poisonings, 90% of deaths

Percentage of all US food imports tested for
pesticide residues			1

Percentage of pesticides wasted during aerial application,
causing only poisonings and pollution	99

--
Leor J
From: vivianm@src.dec.com (Vivian Manganello)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine and The Mall
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:38:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: src.1992Dec11.183827.26187
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

Am I correct in assuming that all the disputing is from people that are
vegetarians?  Or people who are trying to justify their eating of meat?  
If we do take into consideration the killing of bacteria and plant life, 
we must also stop taking showers.  Have you realized how many microorganisms 
that live on your body, that are dying needlessly everyday?


Please tell me where it is that we draw the line.  





Sincerely,

A concerned lacto-ovo vegetarian
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey)
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:07:05 GMT

In article <c188-am.724126132@po.berkeley.edu> c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor  
Jacobi) writes:
>das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>>Does anyone have an 800 number for McD's?  Maybe we could start a phone-in
>>campaign like the one we did for Burger King a while back. 
>
>* McDonald's, Campus Office Building, Kroc Drive, Oak Brook IL 60521.
>(708) 575-3000. 
>
>Sorry its not an 800 number.
>This was posted recently.  If anyone needs more addresses or info, I'll gladly
>send some.  I mailed McD's a letter a week ago.

i wish you luck, i dropped off a complaint in a McD's suggestion box, over 4 
months ago and have not heard back, even though i checked the "do you want
a reply box" (my complaint was that i had ordered a "garden salad" and got 
chunks of meat in it, which i had expected to be in their "chef's salad". sigh
first time in years i'd been in a McD's and probably the last time ever.)
--
Lance R. Bailey  System/Network Manager         Robarts Research Institute
     NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca    box: Clinical Trials Resources Group
            fax: +1 519 663 3789                P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr.
            vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108          London, Canada N6A 5K8
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: krissie@locus.com (Krissie Griffiths)
Subject: Re: Help with non-perishable snacks for New Vegan
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:11:32 GMT

In article <Bz2GIL.HyC@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>
>Someday I am going to come up with a low-fat way to fix potatoes that
>is vegan and will satisfy those of us with french fry cravings.  I

well there is a way.  not fast mind you but a way.  they are steak fries.
actually thick cut spuds with the skins on, baked in the oven for about
25 minutes.  still along the lines of fries, but better as far as i am 
concerned.  more spud per mouthful.  

for me, i don't care what shape my spud is in from mashed, to fried, to
baked, to scalloped, to any old way a vegan can think of.  a spud is a spud
is a spud and its mother's milk as far as i am concerned.

must have been irish in a previous life ;-)

kg


-- 
so what if i am a vegan?  so what if i try to live a cruelty free lifestyle?
i'll tell you what, i sleep better at night knowing that nothing suffers for
anything i eat or wear and i try to use products that have not involved 
animal testing.  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Lowfat French fries.. baking vs. frying
From: VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:13:45 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science

In article <1992Dec14.150422.1287@hou.amoco.com>
zkym02@hou.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh) writes:

>
>
>Has anyone figured out a good way to make Felaful in the oven?  It is a family favorite but I stopped making it because of the fry
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
I just form plump patties instead of balls from the mixture, and
bake on a greased or non-stick pan at about 400F till they seem done.
They're not as good as the fried ones but so much healthier, and quite
adequate.  I've even done them in the toaster oven.

Annice
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:47:52 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
>>tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>>     It seems to me that the basic principle of "pain" requires more
>>than detection and reaction to damage. I can hook up some sensors to
>>my PC and, with only a few lines of code, make it scream bloody murder
>>whenever anmyone touches it. I don't think that qualifies as "pain".
>>There's nothing going on inside that has the pain; there is not an
>>_experience_ of pain.
>
>Your example actually proves exactly the OPPOSITE. With your PC, obviously
>some intelligence was inserted into a dumm machine (in the form of a program) 
>to serve for the purpose of "pain simulation". But why would the plants have 
>such a mechanism ?  What purpose does it serve to program teh plants' DNA to
>eact this way?(other than of course a pain sensor, for self-preservation, etc).

     I'd hardly call a few dozen lines of code "intelligence".

     Why would plants have a mechanism to detect damage? Plants are capable
of self-repair; obviously for self-repair systems to function, there must
be a triggering system. That damage to plants results in the activation
of various chemical processes is, I think, not a controvertial statement.

>Further, if a bee or a human will simply touch the leaves, nothing will
>happen, the plant will NOT react in the same way.

     No damage; no activation of self-repair systems.

>But there are MEASURABLE
>changes in the plant chemistry when cut, bruised, cooked, etc. (see "the
>secret life of the plants"). So, there's definitely a mechanism to both DETECT
>and REACT to pain !

     Detect and react to damage, possibly. Measureable changes != pain.
In my PC example, there are measureable changes; some memory locations
get certain values, etc. But there's still not pain. Pain is an
_experience_; it requires an experiencer, a consciousness, some sort
of subject.

     Responses to e-mail.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
   "Heard a lot of talk about this Jesus
    A man of love, a man of strength
    But what a man was two thousand years ago
    Means nothing at all to me today." -- "Operation Spirit", Live