From: perez@mgr.hjf.org (Charles Perez)
Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Nilges
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:58:05 GMT
Organization: HJF AIDS Research Project, Washington DC

In article <1992Aug24.231646.22045@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.040307.16075@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Aug22.014924.1789@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>>
>>So literacy is to be the judge of who gets the protection of free speech?
>>Ironic that you mention Miller; Kate Millett singles him out as a quite
>>sexist novelist.  Why is Miller's sexism deserving of First A protections
>>if Viktora's racism isn't?  Because he wears funny glasses and hangs out in
>>Paris?  Kind of classist of you, isn't it, Ed?
>
>I've never denied Viktora that freedom of speech which is guaranteed to
>him by the Constitution.  I've instead demonstrated that his actions
>were in significant ways not "speech" and as such undeserving of Supreme
>Court protection.

You have *attempted* to convince us that Viktora was not speaking at
all when he did what he did. What the Supreme Court struck down
was a law criminalizing his choice of a burning cross. It did not
protect him from charges of trespassing or assault.

>In addition, I have a minimalist/maximalist view of
>free speech such that I regard an illiterate punk as deserving only the
>legal mininum access to freedom of speech, whereas I regard a Dr. King
>as deserving much more access to free speech, over and above the mininum
>(but valuable) access that is afforded Viktora.

Again, Nilges trashes the concept of equal protection under the law.

>Because the Supreme
>Court is currently racist, it is bending over backwards to give Viktora
>a maximum amount of free speech by generously asserting that his ACTIONS
>are SPEECH, which they are not.

Generous? The Supreme Court simply took steps to keep a criminal act
of assault from being considered more of a crime because Viktora burned
a cross instead of a giant rubber duckie soaked with gasoline.

>It does so in a society in which access
>to freedom of speech is in decline:

The very term "access to freedom of speech" is a contradiction. Free
speech is not a resource, it is a *right*. As such, it cannot be
allocated or rationed, it can only be attacked or defended.

>a society in which newspapers are
>being destroyed, in which employees are increasingly muzzled, in which
>databases are increasingly treated as private property, and so on.  As
>such, I consider its appeal to Viktora's freedom of speech as
>hypocritical and racist.  

Oh. These sound like issues of property. It would be a waste of bandwidth
to try to make Ed Nilges see that property rights define and delineate
human rights, because Nilges doesn't seem to believe in property
rights.

>
>Legally speaking, Henry Miller had as much free speech as one of his
>contemporaries (let's say Father Coughlin.)  This was denied by the
>Postal Service to Henry Miller.  Morally and artistically, Henry Miller
>had MORE right to free speech than Walt Disney and Coughlin because
>Miller was an honest man whereas Disney and Coughlin were liars.

Nilges to Mickey Mouse: "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" ;-) You want to call
Disney a liar? Back up that assertion. When did he lie, and how, and why
should we care?

>
>I do hope this helps you sort out your confusion.
>>
>>>     THERE IS NEVER A RIGHT TO COMMIT A MORAL WRONG
>>
>>And therefore it's wrong to censor Viktora, no?  
>
>Only if you assume what's under deliberation.  I claim that Viktora's
>actions were not speech.  Therefore, he was not being censored.

You can talk while you are acting, that doesn't mean you shut up. You
can express opinions with criminal actions, but that does not make the
actions any more or any less criminal.


-- 
==========================================================================
That which is necessary is never evil. If an evil seems necessary, look
to your context; that's where its root lies.  - Charles Perez
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Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.censorship