From: browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Weird play at Hampshire-rules?
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:06:13 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1aofc3INNca5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ce448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Lehmann) writes:
>
>In a previous article, CRAAARB@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu () says:
>
>>At a crucial point in the FOG/WUFO matchup at Hampshire on October 3rd, a Yale
>>player had just made a layout-biff in the endzone. While chasing down the disc
>>which had gone out of bounds, the Yale captain suggested a time-out call,
>>yelling "call time-out". Apparently, a couple of the other Yale players turned
>>over. Anyways, the Yale player who was running down the disc had no intention
>>of listening to his captain, ran the disc up to the goal line, and hucked a
>>backhand most of the length of the field to his team-mate who had, seeing
>> should go back to the goal-line. The thrower argued that people on the field
>> obviously not, and that spirit or not, the rules are there for a reason.
>>My feeling is that both arguments are valid. Any ideas?
>>
>O.k. this is a pet-peeve issue of mine. It is my contention that SOTG assumes
>that all players on the field understand the rules of the game and want a 
>game that is played by the rules, with the understanding that competiveness
>should never overrule fair play. That being said, only the player with the
>disc can call time out. Everyone should know this rule, and therefore should 
>not have stopped running. A misunderstanding of the rules by one team 
>should not constitute a SOTG violation by the other team. People scream
>"Call Time-Out" all the time, you can't just stop. I think the cutter, seeing
>the thrower running up to the line made a good cut. Fast-break Ultimate is
>exciting and effective. The Yale players who said that time had been called
>screwed up, but could any of those defenders have made a play?
>
>SOTG should not be used as an excuse for ignorance of the rules in any game 
>that is not specifically a teaching game. Captains have an obligation to 
>teach their new players the rules, players have an obligation to learn them.
>Spirit does not and should not have to take away from the intensity of
>Ultimate. Navy is one of the most spirited teams I have seen in a while and
>they play a hard-running, not always "friendly" game of Ultimate, but they
>respect the game, their opponents and the rules. 
>
>						Chris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Chris Lehmann	 	 	 ce448@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
>University of Pennsylvania	 "When a ball dreams, it dreams 
>Breed Ultimate	 	 	 it's a frisbee."


I could not disagree more.
Spirit comes first, winning a point, a game, or a world championship is a 
distant second.  

Apparently the Yale team understands the basic respect for your opponent
that is embodied in this concept, and agreed to play the point over.  I've
got no beef with the thrower seeing an opportunity and a man breaking long.
But if you won a game by telling the guy covering you - "Hey, its a time
out" and then streaked long for a huck and score, could you really be proud
of that victory?  If you could, then you are really changing the nature of
what was once a fun sport.

I'm a bit of a dinosaur in the ultimate world (although nothing compared 
with Eric).  I remember a very heated argument that I had with Andy
Bornstein (IMHO an exellent and generally sprited player) about what role
the rules should play in Ultimate.  I said that the rules are guidelines to
improve play and resolve disagreements.  He said that the rules are part of
the game and it is legitimate to win by superior knowlege of the rules - good
thing we don't have too many lawyers playing the game.  Well "Kaboom" has
come and gone, but the debate still rages on.

Without the SOTG, Ultimate is just a bunch of tall guys playing frisbee.

		-Stu

-- 
Stuart M. Brown                             If you can remain cool when all 
U. of Manitoba, Dept. Plant Science         Around you are in panic,
Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANADA
browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca            Then you surely misunderstand the situation
Organization: Senior, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA