From: wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck)
Subject: Re: for bill overpeck
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:50:17 GMT

In <BuHJMo.HpC.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu 
   (Susan Garvin) writes: >
In article <1992Sep11.151619.21451@acd4.acd.com> wdo@TEFS1.acd.com 
   (Bill Overpeck) writes: ##

##I said
## I think that Overpeck is caught in the "don't criticize
## another pro-forcer too strongly" trap.  He seems to think
## that it's reasonable for Holtsinger to not expect to have
## his sources checked, even though I had given advance notice 
## that I would do so.  
#
#I didn't say that, nor do I think it's "reasonable", but neither
#is it "reasonable" to assume the presence of some psychopathology
#simply because you're unable to predict his behavior. 

> Nor did I say that it was "reasonable" to assume the presence of 
> some psychopathology simply because I was unable to predict his 
> behavior.   Since you're going to complain that I'm misrepresnting
> your comments, it would be a bit more convincing if you did not
> misrepresent mine in the same sentence.

Seemed like an obvious inference.  Perhaps you should clarify your 
comments.

## He seems to think that it's only a
## sign of immaturity when a 21 year old is convinced that he
## is a fictional entity (or an inanimate object.)
#
#Demonstrate that Chaney is "convinced", please.  If we were
#going to evaluate individuals based on their network personas,
#we could have a field day with "drieux".  

> I wasn't basing this strictly on Chaney's network
> persona.  
> 
> Do you really have that great a need to defend these two?

It really shouldn't be necessary if your (and Keegan's) motives
are as altruistic as you claim.  No one would object to an honest
expression of concern regarding their mental health - no defense
would be necessary.

> Were Chaney a supporter of legal abortion, I would have no
> problem whatsoever condemning his behavior.   

## Teenage women who want to make decisions for themselves,
## on the other hand, are deemed to be in desperate need of
## couselling.  
#
#Not by me, though.  I can't imagine where you came up with such 
#nonsense, but it's patently untrue.  In the absence of evidence 
#to the contrary, I would appreciate a retraction. 

> I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you volunteered
> as a "counselor" in a Crisis Pregnancy Center, and that you
> had stated this publicly.  I must have you confused with
> another Bill Overpeck.

Apparently so.  I conduct training seminars for the volunteer
counselors at our local CPC; I don't see clients there (unless
they're referred to me for some other reason).  And you needn't 
add quotes to the word counselor to demonstrate your disrespect 
for those individuals - the effectiveness of peer counseling is 
well documented in the relevant literature, so they generally 
qualify as legitimate volunteer counselors sans quotes.

> <sarcasm off>  At least three times a week I listen to people
> tell young women entering a clinic that they *must* visit
> the CPC down the street for "real counselling."  (And, yes,
> it's a CPC, affiliated with the CAC.)  I will be sure to tell
> them next week that Bill Overpeck believes that they're not
> in need of counselling at all.

You may misrepresent me in any way you choose, Susan.  It's 
certainly not without precedent.  

But maybe I can clarify something for you.  People who appear
to be in control of their lives and are able to make decisions 
for themselves normally don't "need" counseling.  There are a
couple of exceptions (e.g., despite the current controversy, 
self-destructive behavior is still considered indicative of
some psychopathology) but you will not find me suggesting that
women who've elected to abort are necessarily in need of coun-
seling services.  I have no doubt that among that population,
there are some number of women that could benefit from either
(or both) pre or post abortion counseling.  That, however, does
not necessarily imply a "need" for such.  Similarly, I could 
benefit from receiving a large inheritance, but I don't need
it.  

The world is not divided between those people that need coun-
seling and those that don't.  It's generally an elective process
and should remain so for most people (involuntary clients are
by far the most difficult). 

Perhaps now you'd be willing to retract your comment.

Bill
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity