From: lee@coredump.npac.syr.edu (Lee C Brink)
Subject: Re: Killing bers with handguns  (Was:  Re:  A random thought)
In-reply-to: hollombe@polymath.tti.com's message of Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:10:20 GMT
Organization: Northeast Parallel Architectures Center (NPAC)
	<1992Aug18.051358.10753@mr.med.ge.com>
	<1992Aug20.191020.24361@ttinews.tti.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:26:37 EDT


   }  Do you know that many more deer die of starvation in winter than
   }  fall prey to hunters in many states?  

   Deer survived as a species for tens of thousands of years before we began
   hunting them "for their own good." Nature is red in tooth and claw and
   doesn't care what PETA thinks of her methods.  The starvation is at least
   partially due to hunters having wiped out all the natural predators.


Try "The starvation is mostlty due to hunters having wiped out all the natural
predators."  And that is why they have to be hunted.  Another reply to this 
thread gives an example in Canada.  Reading other posts (I believe in this 
newsgroup) stated that the deer population in Michigan is the highest it has 
ever been, even with record numbers of deer permits being issued.  If the loss
of the natural predators due to hunting is only partially responsible, then
why are deer populations all over the US (At least in MI & NY) are 
skyrocketing (See below for my opinion).

The whole ecology was stable before we started killing "pests" such as wolves,
and coyotes (Yes I know coyotes live in the desert/badlands.  Just giving some
examples).  Now that the predators are gone (Almost completely), something
must take their place.  Hunters are the only real option available.

 
   }  Which would you concider more humaine, a slow death by starvation in 
   }  the coldest of winter, or a quick bullet in the heart?

   Famine and predators take the weakest, ultimately strengthening the herd
   and the species.  Hunters take the best and strongest (trophies, more
   meat), weakening the herd and the species.


Hunters take the weak and the stupid.  You'll notice (I have here in Western NY
at least) that during deer season, the deer are almost non-existant, but
as soon as the season is over, the deer come out to "play."  Pavlov's dog has
taught the deer that 3 weeks in November is the worst time to be around.  The
hunters have culled the weakest (The ones who can't get away) and the stupid
(Those who don't know/haven't figured out that it is dangerous at this time 
of the year).  Sounds like the hunters are strengthening the herd, ultimately.

Also note that hunters are only allowed to shoot buck (In NY), unless they
get a doe permit.  Doe permits are hard to get & even then allow you only
to kill a limited number (1-3 I believe.  It's been a while since I've seen
the regulations).


   Hunt if you want to, but call yourself a humane ecologist because of it
   and I'll call you a hypocrite.

   (Yes, I eat some meat.  I know where it comes from and I don't try to
   pretend otherwise.  I certainly don't pretend the source animals have
   benefited from being raised and slaughtered so I can eat them).


I see.  Killing the meat & eating it yourself is inhumane, but cooping up cows
and chickens in small areas with little light, no movement, and poor living 
conditions are.  Who's the hypocrite?


     Lee

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| Lee C Brink	            | Office Support Co-ordinator at NPAC	   |
| lee@nova.npac.syr.edu     | Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100 |
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