From: mdl@cypress.com (Matt Landrum)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: comments on hp laserjet 4m & sun's newsprinter 20 sought
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:36:21 GMT
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Southeast Design Center

In article <MDL.92Dec16163134@ak.cypress.com> mdl@cypress.com (Matt Landrum) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.190232.4761@Cigna.COM> dave@Cigna.COM (Dave Good) writes:
> 
> 
>    In article <51604@seismo.CSS.GOV> dsc@seismo.CSS.GOV (David S. Comay) writes:
>    >
>    >we are looking at purchasing either a hp laserjet 4m or an newsprinter 20 from
>    >sun for use on our network here.  most of the jobs consists of printouts from
> 
> let me first note that the SPARCprinter is different from the newsprinter 20
> 
> [...]
> 
>    The HP has several advantages over the Sun printer, mainly because of the
>    inadequacies of the SnoozePrint(tm) software:
>        - SnoozePrint will more than "partially" tie down a printer unless you
> 	 can afford to hook it to, say, a SPARCstation 2 (or 10) and don't need
> 	 to use that workstation for any real work.
> 
> We have ours on a 670 and it doesn't even hiccup.  If it's on a SPARC 1, it
> will crush the machine on large jobs.

Of course, you still have to sacrifice ~25Mb of disk space to hold the 
NewsPrint software, pay for software maintenance, keep it up and running,...

> 
>        - The SnoozePrinter can't be connected directly to your network (the
> 	 HP can with an optional JetDirect card)
> 
> No, but it is directly connected to the SBUS which means the data gets
> there in a hurry.  I don't know what other advantage there might be for
> having a printer directly on the network (there probably is some advantage).

The biggest advantage is that you can put the printer anywhere you want (as
long as you have an Ethernet connection for it).  In buildings wired with
10BaseT everywhere, this makes setting up your printer a snap.  I would have
a difficult time running the extra-thick video cable that came with our 
SPARCprinter outside of the room the computer it is connected to is in.  This
means that we either need to allow our users general access to our computer
room (ack!) or move our server outside (double ack!).

As for speed, with a JetDirect card, you can potentially send data to it
at 10Mbits/sec (I don't know if the printer can really handle that kind
of speed though...) and, since you're only sending PostScript (text) instead
of raster bitmaps, you don't really need lightning fast data transfer to keep
the engine printing as fast as it can.

> 
>        - FONTS! The HP can use standard Type 1 Fonts, which are widely available
> 	 for (relatively) low prices.  SnoozePrint requires F3 fonts, of which
> 	 there are only a few sources, and they cost mucho big bucko (2-3 times
> 	 the cost of the same Type 1 font).
> 
> how much is mucho big bucko (seriously)

Well, a couple of months ago, we looked into getting Eurostile 2 for all of 
our printers.  Adobe wanted $200/printer for the Type 1 font (what most
PostScript printers use, including HP's).  Adobe doesn't carry the F3 fonts
needed for NewsPrint, so we called Sun's 800 number to ask them.  After 4-5
hours on the phone trying to find someone who knew anything about NewsPrint
fonts, we finally found out that they want something like $800/printer (we
didn't write down the exact figure), and that they would have to have some
company in Germany translate it from the Adobe Type 1 font for them.

> 
>        - HP has an extremely good reputation for their printers, and has been in
> 	 the business for over 5 years.  Sun is just getting into the printer
> 	 business, and if the SPARCprinter is any indication, they may not be
> 	 in the business much longer.

As Bo Thide' (bt@irfu.se) kindly pointed out to me via e-mail:

BT> It's more like 10 years.  In fact, the laser printer as we know it today,
BT> was once invented by HP.  Of the 9 million laser printers sold in the world,
BT> HP has sold more than 6 million.


>        - HP maintenance is dirt-cheap and extremely good.  4-hour response 
> 	 (at least in my area) is only $384/year.
>        - SnoozePrint sometimes gets confused while rasterizing.  Figuring out
> 	 how to fix it is problematic, and usually we just reboot the workstation
> 	 it's connected to.
> 
> I keep hearing of these problems, but our application works like a champ.  4.1.2 and 
> NewsPrint 2.0 may be why.

Nope.  Our 670 is also running 4.1.2 and NewsPrint 2.0.  However, we print
~5000 pages a day on our NewsPrint-driven printers, and are using Talaris 
T2090s, not NewsPrinters or SPARCprinters.

> 
>    We had a LaserJet 4 in for evaluation (we ended up buying a IIIsi for its
>    speed and capacity) and were quite impressed with it.  On the other hand,
>    we have a SPARCprinter that's sitting on a shelf gathering dust.  We've also
>    used SnoozePrint on some Talaris T2090s, and desperately wish we could get
>    out of our 3-year lease on these and buy some more HP IIIsi's.
> 
> I'd like to here more about the IIIsi (speed, price, etc.), meanwhile how
> much do you want for that SPARCprinter?
> 

The IIIsi uses a 17 ppm engine.  With the duplexer option, optional 1500 
sheet paper feeder (for a total capacity of 2000 sheets), PostScript (and
semi-automatic switching between PostScript and PCL), JetDirect Ethernet 
Card (and driver software) it runs around $6500 (with a decent discount).
Quite a bit more than the SPARCprinter, but we'd never be able to use the 
SPARCprinter for what we're doing, anyway. We've thought about setting it 
up for us admin types for light printing, but haven't had the time or the
desire to actually do it.

If you want to compare prices, you should look at the LJ III or 4, which 
are closer in capability to the SPARCprinter/NewsPrinter.  When comparing,
don't forget that the HPs won't be using *any* of your 670's CPU (other
than when spooling) to print.  The LJ 4 we had (with PostScript, 500 sheet
paper feeder, and JetDirect Card) was $3220.

If you're serious about wanting to buy our SPARCprinter, send me e-mail
with an offer, and I'll run it by The Management.  Personally, I'd just
as soon get rid of it.

> 
> Matt Landrum, CAD Engineer      | e-mail: mdl@cypress.com
> Cypress Southeast Design Center | office: (601) 324-4609, FAX - 4614
> 1 Research Blvd, Suite 200      | "You can get what you want if you
> Starkville, MS  39759           | know how to find it." -- Tower of Power
-- 
David Good                                                  dave@cigna.com

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Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers