HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Falcon needs....
From: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 29 Dec 1992 23:39:19 GMT
Reply-To: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

Okay, the falcon needs:/  (and can easilly do - so get to work guys 8-)

16-colour ANSI emulation.  (With all the standard extras, bold, blinking
etc.)

MS-Doze compatible Super-Z-Modem, Bi-Modem & HS-Link Transfer Protocols.
(Not difficult these days, especially with the Falcon's DSP, which should
be able to happily handle data going in & out at the same time....)

Answer Phone.  (Plays a pre-recorded sample when someone calls 'I am
not home... etc.'  - and then records (samples) the callers message, at
a low rate to keep filesize down!)

VGA art package, supporting GOOD picture resizing & dithering, so as
to expand SpeCtrum 512 320*200*512 pictures up to 640*480 etc. resolution,
(this CAN be done with virtually no loss of detail whatsoever, the OLD
mac-plus has software which does it with INCREDIBLE results - and it's
shareware!).   Should support GIF, IFF, maybe TIFF, and the standard
ST-assortment (Degas, Neofr
ST-assortment, (Degas, Neochrome, SPectrum 512 etc.)

Comms with DSP data-compression/decompression/error correction. (e.g.
MNP 1-5).  Using the DSP to compress/decompress data, and perform
Error correction, and then send the data to the modem, or to the rest
of the computer.  Disablable in case of real Modem-based MNP being
present!  This would REALLY hit the spot!!  


Also - has anyone done any DECENT compatibility tests with the new
Falcon 030,  e.g. testing a reasonably wide variety of Public-Domain/
Shareware and commercial software.  Particularly programs using the
sound-chip, which apparently has problems.

Also, can anyone give us a good description of the software packaged with
the Falcon, not just what it is, but what it does!  

C'mon you people, if you own it - let us hear about it!!


And, why isn't there a comp.sys.atari.falcon message base??  Amoeba
games machine has around 10 message bases!  Surely 4 atari bases
wouldn't hurt!  (1 8-bit, 2 st (tech and this base), and falcon). 
Pretty harmless, considering the other assortments of pointless message
bases around, many of which have never had anything posted in them!!
From: cmh@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.M. Hicks)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: More about the Falcon
Keywords: sampling rate DSP digital audio
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:38:45 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:
>>
>>how will the falcon be for realtime recording (like a multitrack recorder)?
>>how well would an $800 falcon compete with a $3000 ADAT (Alesis)? other than
>>the Alesis now exists, why would i want it over the falcon (assuming i could
>>and would write all my own software)?

>I think the Falcon would work very well in this role; haven't used anything
>like an Alesis so I can't compare. 

The Alesis ADAT has 8 DAC and 8 ADC channels, so you can record and play back
all 8 tracks simultaneously, but independently. You can also lock a number
of machines together for up to 64-track recording, at an unchallenged price.
Whether this is possible with multiple falcons I don't know, and I dare say
I won't know until Atari get their act together and sell me one :-)

>-- 
>  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

>All true wisdom is conveyed in 
>two-line witticisms.

Christopher
--
 ==============================================================================
 Christopher Hicks    |    If it doesn't fit...
 cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng    |                        ...you need a bigger hammer.
 ==============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Re: Help me with Carrier Command!
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:45:06 GMT

In article <78627@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt1448b@prism.gatech.EDU (David P. Forrai) writes:
>Ok, so you netters convinced me to buy Carrier Command off the
>discount racks.  Now I ask, how exactly do you go about playing this
>game?  The "operations guide" gave much information about the weaponry
>and supplies of the carrier, but it did not give much on how to best
>utilise them.  For instance, I started in the action game, where the
>carrier is off the shore of a hostile island.  The laser turret will
>destroy things on the island on the closest shore.

Use the laser turret to take out the missle launchers so your Mantas have a
better chance of surviving...

>I lauch a viewing
>drone, but all I see is blue water - nothing to aim a missile at.

The viewing drone is used to target the cruise missle launcher, which is 
mounted to the rear of your carrier. So, if you rotate the carrier 180 degrees,
with its rear facing the island, you may be able to fire some missiles. I
wouldn't bother, though...

>The manta gets damaged shortly after take off and usually destroyed
>shortly after one or two shots.

When operating near a hostile island, you should always keep Mantas under
manual control. The best method for "liberating" an island is to load a 
Manta up with the missles, the fly straight for the island command center,
and dump your full load of missiles on it.  You should use the same method to
first take out any drone defense units (ya know, them volcano lookin' things)
if there are any on that particular island. 


>The walrus gets destroyed upon
>reaching the island.  So, how do you go about defeating this island?

The Walrus is next to useless in an assault. All they're really good for is
dropping the command center generator once you've liberated the island.



-- 
"Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ray, when somebody asks you if you're a god, you say YES!" -- Winston Zeddmore
From: ekrimen@wet.UUCP (Ed Krimen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon030, resolutions, TRUE color, and DSP
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:33:08 GMT
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

In article <1h2r5bINNqv5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>Ed, I can buy a 386 DX 25 MHz clone with an 85 meg HD, 8 expansion slots,
>a 3.5" 1.4 meg drive, a 5.25" 1.2 meg drive, and a SVGA monitor for
>$799.

Deja vu?

Wow, a 386 clone is about as exciting as watching re-runs of "Designing Women."


-- 
   |||    Ed Krimen
   |||    ekrimen@wet.uucp
  / | \   E.KRIMEN (GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: martini@heaven7.in-berlin.de (Martin P. Ibert)
Subject: Re: Pure Pascal
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:53:00 GMT
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany

obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Mark O'Bryan) writes:
> P.S.  The manual is still in German.  I don't know about the online help.

Maybe they do have an English version, but the on-line help of the version
sold here in Germany is in German (I just checked with my copy).

I've only had Pure Pascal for a couple of days, and I didn't have much time
to play with it, but it sure looks like ONE PIECE OF NEAT SOFTWARE. The
development environment is the coolest I have ever seen. (YMMV.)
-- 
   /\   | Martin P. Ibert, Westendallee 100 d, D-1000 Berlin 19, +4930-3056541
  / o\  | E-Mail: martini@{heaven7.{sub.org|in-berlin.de}|cs.tu-berlin.de} <<<
  /o \  |---------------------------------------------------------------------
 /____\ | Frohe Weihachten und ein glckliches Neues Jahr **** Merry Christmas
   ||   | and a Happy New Year **** Hauskaa joulua ja onnelista uutta voutta !
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Subject: Re: More about the Falcon
Keywords: sampling rate DSP digital audio
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:33:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.113845.24559@eng.cam.ac.uk> cmh@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.M. Hicks) writes:
>hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:
>>I think the Falcon would work very well in this role; haven't used anything
>>like an Alesis so I can't compare. 
>
>The Alesis ADAT has 8 DAC and 8 ADC channels, so you can record and play back
>all 8 tracks simultaneously, but independently. You can also lock a number
>of machines together for up to 64-track recording, at an unchallenged price.
>Whether this is possible with multiple falcons I don't know, and I dare say
>I won't know until Atari get their act together and sell me one :-)

Good question. The DSP DMA is full duplex, it can record and playback
simultaneously at up to 1MB/sec in each direction. (I.e., 8 channels, 16 bits,
50 khz.) Since you can provide an external clock, and there are a variety of
general purpose I/O bits on the DSP port, I'd say it's pretty easy to slave
a couple Falcons together. However, it's certainly not something that's
explicitly provided for.
>
>>-- 
>>  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
>
>>All true wisdom is conveyed in 
>>two-line witticisms.

Hey man, what's with this signature doctoring, eh???
-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

There's a narrow border between genius and insanity, but I'm a dual citizen.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Re: *I* an NOT making THIS up either...
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:49:23 GMT

In article 031625SML108@psuvm.psu.edu, <SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> () writes:

>
>More more, this stuff's great, depressing, but great...
>

OK, how's this... in preparation for this year's Winter COMDEX in Las Vegas,
L______ came up with the brilliant idea of having the developers (who always
help man and populate the Atari COMDEX booth) *pay* for the privilege of
helping Atari sell their computers!  This would be over and above the expense
of transportation to and from Vegas, meals and lodging, the very costly
glossy brochures required of each dev in the booth, etc, etc.

Fortunately, someone in Atari convinced him that this probably wasn't too
good of an idea and might further "alienate" the few remaining Atari devs. :)
Even so, dev support at this year's COMDEX was *very* spartan as compared to
previous years.  Gee... I wonder why?  ;-)
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: gordonf@monashee.sfu.ca (Gordon Farrell)
Subject: Re: Falcon030 -- Truth not Fiction
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:01:10 GMT

In article <1h5ppkINNp78@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
[...]
>
>How many people believe that Atari should concentrate on music with
>the Falcon030?

They would be insane not to!

>
>How many people believe that Atari should concentrate on entertainment
>with the Falcon030?

They would be insane to! :-)
Seriously, I don't believe entertainment is a viable concentration market
for a computer.  To be successful in this market would require a SERIOUS
marketing effort aimed at Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons on TV
when all the kids would see it, decide they can't live without it, and
whine at Mommy and Daddy until they get it.  Even this might not help,
considering the huge market share and Draconian marketing practices of
Nintendo.

>
>How many people believe that Atari should concentrate on multi-media
>with the Falcon030?

Good idea.  With Kodak on board, Atari has a good chance here, provided
they don't blow it (read: ADVERTISE!).

>
>How many of you believe that Atari's present keyboard in the Falcon030
>should be replaced with a better quality keyboard?

If it is the original ST keyboard (and it sure looks like one), YES.
One of the happiest days of my life was when I put aside my ST keyboard for
a TT one.

>
>What do you think is the greatest advantage that the Falcon030
>has?

DSP.

>
>Do you think Atari will still have this advantage in 1994?

I don't know.  All depends on how many other machines have one.

>
>If you were Atari, how would you market this computer?

I would market this computer :-).
Seriously, I'd go for print ads in major computer magazines, such as BYTE.
A couple of TV ads wouldn't hurt, either.

>
>Are you going to buy a Falcon030?

No.  I bought a TT last year, and I'm not done with it yet.

>
>Len (aa399@cleveland.Freenet.edu)
>
>-- 
> 

________________________________________________________________________________
Gordon Farrell          |e-mail:gfarrell@cs.sfu.ca |"Shee, you guys are so unhip
			|	gordonf@sfu.ca     | it's a wonder your bums
Simon Fraser University |			   | don't fall off."
Burnaby, B.C., Canada   |			   |	-Zaphod Beeblebrox
From: Stefan_Westmeier@hb.maus.de (Stefan Westmeier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Compress.ARC
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:51:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.14D/hb

r>The program itself had a .prg extender, so I just run it... it just "hung."
r>Then I renamed it to compres.ttp and passed "filename.ext" to it like it
r>said
r>in the instructions.  It gave back "filename.ext.Z already exists; Not
r>overwritten." and just "hung" again.  Then I chopped off the extender and
r>passed just "filename" and no messages... just hung there.  I assume it
r>crashed

If you want to compress a file in TOS, you should give a filename without
an extension like this, otherwise it will try to create filename.ext.z,
which is not allowed in TOS ( unless you use UNIXMODE ):

     compress filename        -> creates filename.z where filename.z
                                 is compressed


If you want to uncompress a file in TOS, it should have the extension .z
and you must do the following:

     compress -d filename.z   -> creates filename where filename
                                 is uncompressed

Ciao, Stefan.
--
Stefan Westmeier          |  stefan_westmeier@hb.maus.de
Schaphuser Str. 24        |  litfox@informatik.uni-bremen.de
D-W 2800 Bremen 41        |  litfox@biba.uni-bremen.d
Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:18945 de.comp.sys.st:2016
From: wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org (Markus Wenzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,de.comp.sys.st
Organization: Palumbian Networks Ltd.
Subject: -mbaserel tcsh available
Reply-To: wenzel@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 04:09:52 MET

Hi folks!

My problems in compiling a tcsh with -mbaserel and shared text were related
to a bug in the MiNTlibs that is fixed now in PL 25. So I can announce that
tcsh 6.00.02 is ready for download on

	ftp.uni-stuttgart.de (129.69.1.12)
	
	ST version: /soft/atari/MiNT/shells/btcsh.zoo
	TT version: /soft/atari/TT/MiNT/shells/btcsh-TTbin.zoo
	
The TT version was compiled with -m68020 -m68881 and the appropriate libs.
If you have problems with tcsh's memory allocation, please experiment with
its stacksize, I think I set it to a value of 250 KB.

Happy New Year!
Markus.

-- 
/dev                Markus Wenzel, University of Stuttgart
/usr/spool/mail     wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org / @rus.uni-stuttgart.de
~/.ircrc/nick       Marsu

### check this out with users you don't like:
cat >> ~luser/.cshrc
alias vi 'rm \!*;unalias vi;grep -v BoZo ~/.cshrc > ~/.z;mv -f ~/.z ~/.cshrc'
^D

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: nino@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Marinos Yannikos)
Subject: Re: Big bad BobR
Organization: TU Wien, Vienna, Austria
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:35:53 GMT

Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
: Scott, the realization that NO one is going to change anything
: about Atari hit some time ago..  most of what you see is more
: along the lines of trying to correct misconceptions or
: misrepresentations.. (ie:inexpensive PC motherboards are usually
: sold without CPUs)
:  
: Then again, it's fun to poke some people in the eye with their
: ignorance to watch them jump.
:  
: Incidentally, (not to start any flame-wars.. please!), a lot
: of those "European demo writers" have moved on to the PC
: platform.  They're doing sound and graphics which used to be
: exclusively the domain of the ST and Amiga.  You could disguise

Interesting... Which of them exactly? Please answer if you can...

: the monitor and not be able to tell them from the ST demos of
: years past.
:

-MY
From: John.Klassa@launchpad.unc.edu (John Klassa)
Subject: LodeRunner's Revenge (lodeclon on atari.archive)
Reply-To: klassa%aurfs1.aur.alcatel.com@rockdal.aud.alcatel.com
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:38:57 GMT

Hi-

I just downloaded lodeclon.arc from atari.archive...  It's a
LodeRunner-like game.  It seems like a decent game except for the fact
that it takes _forever_ to get from one screen to the next, and it takes
forever to start the game.  Example: when your player dies, the game
sits for about 10 or 15 seconds -- doing absolutely nothing.  Then,
finally, it clears the screen and draws the next one.  Likewise, when
you start the game, it sits for many, many seconds before throwing up
the game screen.  None of the keys seemed to have any effect.  Has
anybody else noticed this?  Is there anything I can do to circumvent the
delay?

Thanks!

John

P.S.  PLEASE reply to klassa%aurfs1.aur.alcatel.com@rockdal.aud.alcatel.com 
instead of replying directly to this address (john.klassa @ bbs.oit.unc.edu).  
I'd have posted from the aur.alcatel.com machine except that ours news
server died.  I'm still able to receive mail that way, though, and would
appreciate getting responses there instead of here.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: dont@klic.rain.com (Don taylor)
Subject: Jacal1a0 symbolic math program
Reply-To: dont@pdaxs.techbook.com
Organization: KLIC
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 06:32:32 GMT

If someone compiles the Scheme interpreter and gets the Jacal1a0 symbolic
math program working on an ST I would greatly appreciate a copy.

It would be terrific if it would fit in 512k but if 1024 is needed I can
probably handle that too.

It was announced that it was available via ftp from

altdorf.ai.mit.edu:archive/scm/jacal1a0.tar.Z

with the scheme interpreter in

altdorf.ai.mit.edu:archive/scm/scm4a15.tar.Z

and library in

altdorf.ai.mit.edu:archive/scm/slib1c3.tar.Z

Please reply by email if possible

Thanks
dont@pdaxs.techbook.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Iain Laskey)
Subject: Re: Falcon needs....
Reply-To: ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:20:00 +0000

>VGA art package, supporting GOOD picture resizing & dithering, so as
>to expand SpeCtrum 512 320*200*512 pictures up to 640*480 etc. resolution,
>(this CAN be done with virtually no loss of detail whatsoever, the OLD
>mac-plus has software which does it with INCREDIBLE results - and it's
>shareware!).   Should support GIF, IFF, maybe TIFF, and the standard
Sounds like True Paint from Hisoft. They have a demo disk for 5UKP.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours,                    
   But I think that God's got a sick sense of humour - ML Gore
 ------------------------------+---------------+----------------------
   ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk | Iain R Laskey | Atari ST & Unix user
From: michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: quick apology
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au
Date: 18 Dec 92 08:02:04 GMT

My mailprocessor bit it in a big way (disk corruption winged the executable)
so I may be throwing a few dupes - please bear with me, I have most of it
under control now.

\`miff`                                                       /|\

--- ScanMail 0.68 X0501
 * Origin: That Which Is Not, ST in SA. 61-8-232-5722 (3:800/842)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Compress.ARC
From: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 1 Jan 1993 21:03:24 GMT
Reply-To: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

The command for extracting 'Z' files with compress is... (looks on disk)

Damn, can't find it.  if you run the program from a CLI, or Teradesk, or
some such thing. telling it to pause after running the TTP file, then you
can send

-h

to the file which gives you the switches.  I'm pretty sure you have to use

-C

or some such thing, but it is pretty misleading!
From: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: So what does this mean to us ?
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:49:25 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing & Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <greg.724971572@duke> greg@Quotron.COM (Greg "Maddog" Knauss) writes:
>... Better?  I dunno.  I've never seen anybody else's routines.  But Dave
>and Neil's stuff was (and, heck, I hope is) going to be publicly available.
>The Bitmap Brothers, I would expect, have a great graphics engine, but it
>doesn't do me a lick of good if they won't sell it to me.  By using Game
>Workbench, I got to do all the spiffy stuff the BB and Jeff Minter do, but
>without the pain of writing my own library.  If that's a way to be better,
>then they're better.
>	(And as a side note, GW is an excellently designed system,
>independant of how it runs [but, heh, that's excellent, too].  The calls
>are well organized and logically laid out.  Similar commands have
>similar names and take similar paramaters, overcoming one of the biggest
>pitfalls of C -- how to find something in the manual and figuring out
>what it does.)

<BLUSH> Aw gee thanks Greg. I hope many more people will be as impressed with
and enjoy Game Workbench too when it comes out.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! Neil Forsyth                                                               !
! Department of Computing and Electrical Engineering                         !
! Heriot-Watt University                                                     !
! Edinburgh, Scotland                                                        !
! United Kingdom            Email: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs, ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! "'Have you got any?' he asked, expecting the answer no" - Monty Python     !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: MikeD@cup.portal.com (Michael Robert Delany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Serial Connection
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 20:22:53 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

They are written to in the same manner as disk files.
 
REWRITE(file, filename);

where file is of type TEXT and filename is a filename on the disk, OR 
one of the following: PRN: AUX: CON: MIDI:

For example, to write 'HELLO' to the serial port,
file: TEXT;

REWRITE(file, 'AUX:');
WRITELN(file, 'hello');


I hope that answered the question.
From: abaddon@uk.ac.liverpool.scm.suprenum (Kevin o donovan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon030 -- Truth not Fiction
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:44:16 GMT
Organization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool, UK

>>>>> On 22 Dec 92 01:08:04 GMT, aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) said:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu

> I'm finding out that many of you THINK you know the answer and reply
> as you KNOW for SURE, but you really don't know what you are talking about.

A nice strong start, unfortunately all the questions you asked were rather 
subjective, so the above doesn't really apply 8-)

Kev