HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schut@prl.philips.nl (Schut G)
Subject: Re: Our daily philosophy question
Keywords: beer
Organization: none
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:20:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.083430.15210@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu 
(Daniel Briggs) writes:
<<< stuff deleted >>>
>The subject came up because one of our number did in fact have
>a reserve deployment from the step a few weeks ago.  It's not clear, but
>it seems to have been a snagged handle.  So does this dude owe booze?
>As he put it, "my life wasn't in danger -- I had a perfectly good main
>in my backpack."  On the other hand, he landed his reserve, and it probably
>wasn't the rigger's fault.  Opinions?

I think this is a very important issue. Sometimes the rules are clear and
sometimes they aren't. I'm inclined to say that in this case the fact that
it was a reserve ride prevails over the issue whether it was dangerous or
not. So he owes the "case of beer".
Now we're on this subject, how would you judge the following situationss?

For example, when there's a bar at the DZ, is the "case of beer" replaced
by a "round for all"? Especially in the summer this is difficult since there
will be lots of non-jumpers present. So what this question boils down to: who
share in this round/case and how do you get this organised?

Second (unfortunately not) hypothetical case (not case of beer, btw).
Suppose your FXC fires at a too high altitude and you end up under your
reserve. Questions:
- Is that a "case"-situation (the main opened at the same time so
  there was some danger and therefore some reason to celebrate the happy end)?
  In view of my answer given above, I'd say it's worth a "case of beer".
- If so, is it a general celebration or for a selected group/person?
- who pays the round? The person landing the reserve or the instructor, who
  checked the FXC?
What if the ride under the round reserve ends in a tree and some folks come
to get the parachutes (all club material, and the rescuers were instructors)
out of the trees (yep, the main ended up in a tree as well...).
Same questions:
- Who shares in the round?
- Again: who pays for it?
I know, these are difficult questions and not to be dealt with too lightly.
Any opinions?

BTW, what are the customs in the US for the 100th jump? Just curious.

                        (me, someday)
                _      _   \           _      _
Gerhard          \_mm0__\__mmO____Omm_/__Omm_/          schut@prl.philips.nl
============================================================================
= Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above a...- Opinions??? OPINIONS????? =
= You GOTTA be KIDDING!!!! Are you OUT of your MIND?????? It's nothing but =
= the  <beep>  TRUTH!!!  (Sort of, anyway, I think. Er, have a nice day.)  =
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Re: Skydiving with the Russians.
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 03:23:29 GMT

In article <BvAwIJ.1yI@virtech.uucp> mark@vti.com writes:
>If anyone out there gets "Air & Space Magazine", you might want
>to take a gander and the article entitled "Leap of Faith." It's
>an short story about learning how to skydive with the russian
>paratroopers south of Moscow.  There are some neat shots of the
>Antonov An-2, jumpship.

Imagine cases of Vodka...  Oooph

>      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
>    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com

Tim
From: horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Number of jumps
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:58:10 GMT
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center

In article <BvGwu9.4rB@virtech.uucp> mark@vti.com writes:
>Eric Perozziello (eap@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>: >Anyway, no reserve rides after 50 CRW jumps?  Now THAT is saying something!
>:
>: Yeah, maybe it's saying you haven't docked yet!   :^)
>: 
>: Jus' kiddin' mark!
>
>That was neither Mark Smith (mark=me), nor Mark Horn (sparkie) who
>said that; I think that was Pasi Nironen.

You'll notice that I didn't respond to that one.  He happens to be correct!
Not that I don't like CRW.  I just like my Sabre more.

Drive fast, pull low, date your rigger's spouse, and do Sabre CRW!
- sparkie
horn@mickey.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu ()
Subject: Re: Parachutist
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:51:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.153116.14978@eng.ufl.edu> esj@viper.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson) writes:
>Another strange thing reading this months parachutist, regarding
>our favorite lurker. 
>
>The article about the WFF conv. mentioned the turbine aircraft:
>
>1. 2 FF express Otters
>2. Skydive Az's super otter
>3. Another otter, whos home base and owner got mentioned.
>4. and a "Fast climbing King Air", no mention of the owner or home base.
>
>Great unbaised journalism..... NOT.

Ticked me off a bit; I read that last night - "surprisingly powerful" and
"remarkably fast" they said. As if they didn't already know... if it weren't
so glaringly obvious,... I thought that was a scum ommission. Too bad '-Ed.'
isn't on line, some flames would be appropriate.

>Ej

TIm

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Malfunction Rate Poll (was: RE: number of jumps)
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:54:56 GMT

Markus Tessmann (tessmann@cs.ubc.ca) wrote:
: These span over 10 years with most of the tangled lines coming from older
: canopies (strato star and old 7 cells) using packing methods including
: free-packing (no bag or line stows!),  or just no line stows.

A fella I used to know jumped one of these.  I believe it's nickname
was the "coil of death."

Quite colorful, don't you think?
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Number of jumps
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:03:43 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <15864@mindlink.bc.ca> Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>In article <BvE7ty.I6I@virtech.uucp> mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
>writes:
>
>>                rounds              squares             aad
>>            #jumps   #mal      #jumps    #mal      saves    #mal
>>Mark          10       0          450      1         0       2
>>Pete           0       0         1300      0
>>Philip        50       1         1200      8
>>Pierre        45       0         1200      0
>>Vilhuber       0       0          115      0
>
> Gerhard        0       0           82      0
> H. Wain       36       0         1200      1
> Hector         0       0          260      0
> Jan            0       0          115      0
> Tim            0       0          175      0
>
> Charlie     1500       3          750      3
>
>...thanks in part to the Strato-Star from Hell.
>
>     Is anybody collecting these statistics?

I know I am.
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jvilhube@diana.cair.du.edu (Jan Vilhuber)
Subject: Re: Malfunction Rate Poll (was: RE: number of jumps)
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 23:33:09 GMT

In article <1aq8l6INN806@larry.cs.ubc.ca> tessmann@cs.ubc.ca (Markus Tessmann) writes:
>
>    Markus       100       0         1400      6
>
>Scarey stuff, eh?  Blue skies...

Yea. Would you share the cause (of the 6) with us? Just curious...

-- 
 Jan Vilhuber            | Internet: jvilhube@du.edu or jvilhube@[130.253.1.4]
 (The skydivin' Bass)      | Bitnet  : jvilhube@DUCAIR
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ks@acn.purdue.edu (Kirk Smith)
Subject: Re: Risers (Was: Re: Advice for new jumpers buy
Reply-To: ks@acn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:21:53 GMT

The rigging innovations order blanks have the following options.

	Normal big risers (type 8, I think)
	Type 17 risers (the mini-risers that everyone worries about)
	Type 17 integrity risers.

The type 17 integrity risers are the "reversed 3 ring" design with the grommet
in a small tab instead of through the riser.  That's what I just ordered on my
Flexon.

					Kirk Smith


Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Ejection (NOT!)
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 01:19:44 GMT

I was just watching a pretty cool program on the Discovery Channel about
the X-15 test airplane program of the late 60's. One of the test pilots
was killed when the craft broke up in flight. The narrator had a great line,
I wish I'd caught the exact words he used, something to effect that:

The test plane was [plummeting towards the Earth/re-entering the artmosphere]
at 160,000 feet per minute. Due to [such and such] forces, the pilot was 
unable to eject.

I think the plane's structure failed at some 58,000 feet MSL. Fat chance, eh?

One of these planes, BTW, exceeded 4,250 MPH, MACH 6.3-6.5ish. Incredible.
XC
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Our daily philosophy question
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:25:54 GMT

Schut G (schut@prl.philips.nl) wrote:
: BTW, what are the customs in the US for the 100th jump? Just curious.

Pies.  If they're your friends, then yummy pies; if they're not so
friendly (or perhaps not that imaginitive), then whip cream pies;
or perhaps you're known as a big-time trickster, then you'll get
honey pies.
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
From: peltonie@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jouni Peltoniemi)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Number of jumps
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:09:41 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki


 >		rounds					squares
 >	#jumps		#mal			#jumps		#mal
 >
           0           0                          190           0

Jouni Peltoniemi, University of Helsinki, Finland
Internet: Jouni.Peltoniemi@Helsinki.Fi
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: wain@decoy.uucp (25498-greenhalgh)
Subject: Re: Parachutist
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:34:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.052433.6064@mercury.cair.du.edu> jvilhube@diana.cair.du.edu (Jan Vilhuber) writes:
>Just two thoughts on this month's issue of Parachutist:
>One: Congrats Art for your Gold Wings and 12-Hour..
>
>Two: Was reading the advertisement for Dytter. It seems they introduced
>	a new feature: an LED that blinks when the alarm goes off. 
>	Now correct me if I'm wrong (I don't own a dytter), but most
>	people wouldn't mount the thing somewhere in from of they're face,
>	would they? I mean, unless they ship fiberoptical cable with it, to route
>	the light close to the eye, a blinding flash of light or something...
>	*I* don't think so!
>	What the hell good would an LED do?!
> Jan Vilhuber            | Internet: jvilhube@du.edu or jvilhube@[130.253.1.4]

There are two reasons for the LED on a dytter.  The main reason is to check
or set the dytter in the plane on the way up, you do not have to hold it next
to your ear, you can simply watch the LED.  Also there is a simple device that
can be taped to the LED and allows you to mount another LED where you can
see it.  There is even a new camera sight with 2 LEDs in it.  One is
connected to your record indicator on your camera and the other is connected
to this new dytter so that in your sight you will be able to see the dytter.  

H. Wain Greenhalgh
wain@decoy.cc.bellcore.com
BELLCORE
Piscataway, NJ
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Jim Beutel)
Subject: Best of both worlds
Reply-To: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola SPS ASIC, Chandler, AZ
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:24:02 GMT

Well,
It was a great weekend. Was able to put my pilots 
license to good use in flying down from Phoenix to
Avra Valley (Marana) to do some skydiving. 

Made my first three door exits. 9500 ft. Also, my 
first hookup. What a thrill. Realized this weekend
that skydiving is all about the freefall and not the
chute ride like so many beginners think. 

Will need to sell some junk around the house to be 
able to buy a rig and cut the cost down. Any body need
a cab-over camper or some scuba gear..? 

Took a friend with a video camera this time. Excellent
way to critique your landings... I needed it. Now I can
work on improvement and relive the adventure in the 
comfort of my home.

Can't wait till next time.
Thanks to Joe for the insite on the GIF files. Love the
two free falling over the earth shot...

regards,
Jim



Keywords:
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Spotting and Ground Speed
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:33:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ehsnet.1150.2AD198B9

Reply-to: Ted.Harrison@p0.f623.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Ted Harrison)
Fido-To: romulus!ssf-sys.dhl.com!bdaniels

Regarding romulus!ssf-sys.dhl.com!bdaniels's message to Skydive on Sep 25:


 r> Then I have to wait until my exit point is 1000 ft upwind of 
 r> theirs.

 r> Skratch

 This isn't Skratch Garrison, by any chance, who was at
 the first World Ten-Man Meet in Masterton, New Zealand, 
 all those years ago and used to work on orbital mechanics
 at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab? 

 (Or is it Ben Daniels signing off as Skratch?)   |*)


--- QM v1.30 
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: Square_ONE, Sydney, Australia. (3:712/623.0)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-- Check Source BBS, (217) 244-6954, HST, V.32, V.42bis ---
From: drf40@cd.amdahl.com (Daryl Fortney)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: New Rig
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:46:48 GMT
Reply-To: drf40@cd.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA


	Anyone out there looking to sell a good used Rig for a beginner that
weighs about 135 and is about 5'6" or so?  I am in the market for some
gear and would like to hear what you have to offer.
	-df

-- 
Daryl Fortney						drf40@cd.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Human mals - desc.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 04:12:28 GMT

>
>Last weekend my pilot chute got very close to getting into nose of the 
>center cell. I've seen two people land these. I seem to recall the opinion
>here was cut that away (?), is that generally a good idea? I was a bit
>concerned about it, because I couldn't get it to move for awhile, and I
>didn't want it to get in there at 1,000' and cause a problem. I finally 
>got it to go away by sahaying somewhat vigorously. Is there a better way?
>

If it was going into a cell, just stall the canopy a few times. I'tll
prob come out.

If it goes thru a line group, you don't want to stall it completely
for fear that it might not come back out the way it went in, and 
hence wrap some lines.  In this case, I would fly it at half brakes
and steer by letting up on one toggle and down on the other (like driving
a bulldozer :^).   If it's controllable, I see no reason to not land it.

-Eric


Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: sharpe@cs.UAlberta.CA (Al Sharpe)
Subject: Re: High birds?
Organization: University of Alberta
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:46:23 GMT

In article <1aog3nINNepe@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> andy@cse.ucsc.edu (Andy John) writes:
>  Someone said they thought they hiyt a bird at 3500 feet... what you a
>  bird be doing flying that high? I mean it seems like a waste of
>  energy. Anyone up on bird behavior? Do they really fly that high?

Yes, they do.  I know geese will fly as high as around 30,000 ft.  I would
suppose other (perhaps smaller) birds will migrate at lower altitudes.
Considering the time of year, a bird-strike at altitude is not unrealistic.

             Blue skies.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
*    Alan Sharpe  Email:  sharpe@cs.ualberta.ca             *
*    Department of Computing Science, University of Alberta *
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: drf40@cd.amdahl.com (Daryl Fortney)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Rig - JERRY
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:27:16 GMT
Reply-To: drf40@cd.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA


	Could you write me more about the gear. I tried mailing you, and it
said "unknown host" so I can't contact you other then by phone, and no
one was home. I am interested though.  How much for the main only?
	-df

-- 
Daryl Fortney						drf40@cd.amdahl.com
From: tessmann@cs.ubc.ca (Markus Tessmann)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Malfunction Rate Poll (was: RE: number of jumps)
Date: 5 Oct 1992 13:30:30 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: larry.cs.ubc.ca

dsouth@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Dale Southard Jr.) writes:

>>>>                rounds              squares             aad
>>>>            #jumps   #mal      #jumps    #mal      saves    #mal
>>>>Mark          10       0          450      1         0       2
>>>>Pete           0       0         1300      0
>>>>Philip        50       1         1200      8
>>>>Pierre        45       0         1200      0
>>>>Vilhuber       0       0          115      0
>>> Gerhard        0       0           82      0
>>> H. Wain       36       0         1200      1
>>> Hector         0       0          260      0
>>> Jan            0       0          115      0
>>> Tim            0       0          175      0
>>> Charlie     1500       3          750      3
>   Dale           0       0         1200      3

    Markus       100       0         1400      6

Scarey stuff, eh?  Blue skies...
            ___
           /   \
           |O O|
          _\ 0 /_
         ( )|=|( )
          \\   //
           \\ //                    
            \//                 Markus
            //\     
           // \\
          (_) (_)
From: bunda@cs.utexas.edu (John Bunda)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Setting DYTTERS
Date: 1 Oct 1992 15:24:57 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: peaches.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct1.190220.2139@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>>	YES, get a Dytter but DON'T set it at your normal pull altitude,
>>	set it lower so if you haven't pulled yet and you hear it
>>	go off, you know you're BLOWING IT!  
>
>I was thinking of setting my DYTTER for "reserve time". IE: When an
>AAD would fire (A cypres, maybe).  I would set it at 900ft, to

I think I disagree with both of these strategies.  After spending
almost $200 for the thing, I want it to work for me and give me useful
information on every jump, and during freefall, not when I should be
under canopy.  If it's going off then, first of all, it's too loud,
and second, it's not giving me useful information during the most
common situation - everything goes right.  Plus, it's not like they
are absolutely reliable.  Setting it to elicit a panic reaction if it
goes off in freefall is a recipe for disaster - if it goes off high
for some reason (like the load after you loaned it to someone who
reset it).  I like to have mine go off high enough that I know I have
time to verify the altitude; the trouble with this for some people is
it can screw up their concentration.

If have a spare $200 for a Dytter to give you useful information
solely in the event of a malfunction that you are tempted to ride for
too long, well, that's great.  But if you are that worried that you'll
screw up in this way, maybe an AAD would be a better investment.  I
like the idea of a 900 foot warning though; maybe a dual-tone dytter,
with one tone to mean wrap up the skydive, and another one to mean
pull your reserve.  This wouldn't be hard to do with Cypress
technology, but Dytters and Microhawks are probably too crude to
support this.
-- 
John Bunda * bunda@cs.utexas.edu * {uunet,harvard}!cs.utexas.edu!bunda

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn)
Subject: Beer (Was: Re: Our daily philosophy question)
Keywords: beer
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:45:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.060429.24470@pta.pyramid.com.au> bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) writes:

[ ..stuff deleted.. ]
>>In article <1992Sep30.215948.13060@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn) writes:
>>>Personnally, I don't drink.  So, I don't drink anyone else's beer.  I don't 
>>>like the idea of supporting someone else's drinking.  If I buy anything, it's
>>>usually root beer. Besides, this sport is expensive enough, why do we have to
>>>add more costs?  Just say, "No!"  ;-)

[ ..someone else's comments deleted.. ]
>!@#$%^&*()
>
>OK fine.  Just don't drink any that someone else buys.  

Which, is exactly what I do (I realize you may have been addressing someone who
responded to my post).  I do, however, feel free to indulge in someone else's
root beer when a case of that happens to come along.

[ ... ]
>At other DZs, it is a very important
>part of the social scene.  And the social scene, to me, is almost as
>important as the skydiving itself.

#define SOAP_BOX

I don't care how important a part of the social scene buying beer is.  I will 
NOT support someone else's drinking.  If you want to drink, it's your life
and you can do as you will.  I, however, will NOT buy your beer ... unless,
of course, it's root beer.  If you want me to participate in the tradition, 
that's fine.  I'll buy as much root beer as you want (almost no one wants it),
but as soon as you want to get drunk off of my money, I'm sorry but I control
my purse strings, and I decline.

The fact that this attitude, more than my talents as a jumper, has kept me 
off of dives, disgusts me.  It also suggests that the drinking is MORE
important than the skydiving.

>Because its a tradition.  

[ ..really obvious argument responding to this kept out.. ]

[ ... ]
>You
>either accept them [traditions], change them, or remain an outsider.

Or you ignore them and hope that people will respect you for having ideas that
may be different from the tradition.  Some will, others won't.

>I ignore about 99% of the people who say I owe.  (First time I picked
>my nose on the way to height while sitting next to a girl with red
>hair.  Was that right?  

Yup, that's it.  (Well, close enough for gov work: you didn't have to be 
sitting NEXT to her, and I called her a woman)

>But
>when I do something worth buying for, then I know.

So do I.

Don't get me wrong.  It's not the tradition of sharing a significant
achievement with friends that bothers me.  It's the fact that it has to be done
over alcohol that drives me crazy!  You don't need to know my reasons for this.
I don't suspect you care.  

There are two things that you can count on from me at a Drop Zone:
	a) I won't drink anyone else's beer
	b) I won't buy the beer (unless it's root beer).
Actually, my friends would probably say that this list needs to be appended
some, but I don't think they would be talking about anything related to this
subject.

#undef SOAP_BOX

- sparkie
horn@mickey.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving