HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Re: Bullet catching?
Organization: Racal-Datacom
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:38:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.195521.14674@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> goluska@delta.egr.msu.edu (Che Goluska) writes:
>My sensei has told me about a gentleman who used to put on demonstrations 
>at major tournaments, etc who caught bullets in his teeth frequently.  
>Apparently through the course of his career he was shot in the throat and 
>face more than once.  I doubt his teeth were all original either.

  I remember seeing this guy over 10 years ago on Wide World of Sports.  They
used to cover some big MA tourny held in Madison Square Garden.  He went 
through a lot of antics, having people pick a color coded bullet at random,
having `bullet proof' glass behind him (to show that the bullet didn't miss 
his mouth), a piece of paper in front of the rifle barrel (to show that the 
bullet actually did leave the gun in the entended manner) and a few other 
things as well.
  It was pointed out that he had several bullet wounds in his neck and jaws 
from times he tried it and missed.  Full set of of false teeth, top and 
bottom.  The orginals were claimed to have been shot out in other failed 
attempts.  How did he survive all this you ask?  Lucky I guess.  He used .22 
short round nose bullets as well.
  He did his act on TV.  There still may be film of him doing around.  
Contact ABC Sports if you are really interested.

>Unfortunately he is dead now.  Supposedly some sort of heart attack.
   I heard he got caught in an avalance in the Swiss Alps while on a skiing 
trip.  I still have this mental picture of him standing their trying to 
catch the avalance in his teeth. :->

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin  Racal-Datacom  Boxborough, MA   urbin@interlan.interlan.com   
These opinions are mine.  No one else will admit to them.	          
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: greadore@jscprofs.nasa.gov
Subject: Aikido in Houston
Organization: nasa/jsc
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:47:02 GMT

I took Aikido for three months a year ago and really liked it but had stop
because of other commitments. I would like to start back again. THere is a
school near my house that is run by a guy by the name of Gary Shabo that seems
pretty good. I was wondering if anybody on the net is familiar with him. I
would appreciate any feedback on him or any other good instructors in the
Houston area.

Thanks,
Gerald Readore 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:21:50 GMT

In article <11564@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>But, I think Dave's ideas need a bit of fleshing out to describe a
>person on person scenario, and it often seems that is of more interest
>to the group at large. It can become very confusing using right and
>left, pronoun refernces become vague and in general it takes a
>tremendous amount of text to do this. 

True.  I didn't post a piece of a form because I am constrained from doing
so.  I'll risk a little chunk, to show the level at which I was writing:

This is a tiny piece of a "Lo Han-ish" form.  The nomenclature is not the
same as what I posted (it's a little wordier).  See if you can figure it 
out:

(from N-facing NS:)
Look W, double h-punch E/W while stepping into HS.
Step up w/ RF and brace l-knee, x-blk down/left w/ l-forearm.
Crane circle (CW/CW) and step back E into hi-crane, RH block-hi, LH beak past 
  l-knee.
C-blk RH, h-punch W LH while stepping into LFF BS. C-blk LH, tw-hit RH.
Step W into S-facing hs. Grab hair w/LH, bkfist into face w/ RH.

====================================================

> Use of the terms inside/outside to refer to general movements with
> respect to the body in question. 

Sounds good.

> Use of terms cross-handed or same-handed to indicate the spacial
> relationship between the two opponents. I think this works especially
> well, since it seems more relevent that using left and right, since
> techniques should work on both sides!

True.  In a specific form, it has to be done on a specific side, but for
the purpose of describing stuff on the net the more general description
is probably better.

> Use of terms high/middle/low to indicate the level of the attack or
> defense. 

I use this when I document individual techniques, too.  

> Opponent throws a high punch with right hand. I counter with a
> cross-handed block on the inside, control the arm with the same-side
> hand, and strike high with the initial blocking hand. 

Sounds good.  That strike could be any number of kinds of strikes, too,
but the overall movement is the important info.

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dkm@cci632.cci.com (Don Morrill)
Subject: Car jacking
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:41:33 GMT

Well, as the Rochester news likes to put it, I was the victim of the
first reported attempted car-jacking in the Rochester area.

First the details and then some questions:

Me: yellow belt Can-ru Jiu-Jitsu
Him: 15 year old punk with a claw hammer.

I was sitting at a red light late at night with no other cars in view.
I saw a youth (what's a yout?) cross the street in front of me from left
to right and though nothing of it at the time. As he crossed in front of my
car, I saw him produce a claw hammer and run around to the passenger side
of my car. My first instinct was to reach for the door lock and just as he
reached the passenger side door, I was able to lock the doors (thank God
for power door locks, they probably saved my life!) He proceeded to lift the
hammer in an apparent display of force. I quickly looked both ways at the
red light and like any good MA, stepped on the gas and ran like hell.
I looked in my rear view mirror to see the kid get into the car behind me.
My first thoughts, "Oh my God, he has succeeded in taking that vehicle!"
When I got home I immediatly(sp?) called 911 (Who, BTW, proceeded to take
my whole story and then say, "Oh, that's not in my jurisdiction, let me
transfer you to the local police" who then proceeded to re-take my entire
story!) As it turns out, the police caught 4 kids running around
steeling cars from dealer lots all night when they decided to go for a
live one. The car behind me was not a victim as I though but 3 of this
kid's punk friends all armed with police billy clubs. 

Questions:
If the kid had gotten into my car with the claw hammer, what actions could
I have taken. I have a very small car with a low roof so an overhand attack
from the punk with the hammer is ruled out. With my limited MA training, the
best I could come up with is either a fist to the groin as he entered the car
or perhaps a palm-heel strike to the nose with a hito(sp?) to the side of
the neck (brachial plexis???).

If the kid did strike me with the hammer and make me drive off with his
friends following, what then. Jump from the car and let it drive off
uncontrollably, possibly hitting a bystander? Ride it out for a while and
hope for the best? Continue to attack the youth who already has struck me
at least once?

Any thoughts would be greatly helpful.
Thanks

===============================================================================
 Donn Morrill						dkm@sunsrvr1.cci.com
 Northern Telecom Inc.
 Rochester, NY
 716-482-5000
===============================================================================
From: princecr@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: thrust versus slash -- a SEAL's response
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:16:57 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Dec13.002339.3658@netcom.com>, dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
> I responded to this on the mailing list, and accidentally sent it to
> the wrong place, so I thought I'd just post it here for fun...
> 
>> Dave Sheehy <dbs@hprnd.rose.hp.com> writes:
>> >someone else writes:
>> >> Expert MA knife fighters will _typically_ slash, not thrust.  Thrusting

	Only if the 'expert MA knife fighter' has no idea what he is doing.

chris
From: lieven@cco.caltech.edu (Lieven Pascal Leroy)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Date: 13 Dec 1992 20:17:04 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

Yes, strikes directly to the sternum are pointless.  But I've never heard
them being recommended.  The sternum is actually three separate bones,
the bottom one of which (the xyphoid process) is a very small bone not attached
to the ribs.  It isn't even attached to the middle bone (sternum proper) until
later in life, except by cartilage.  _This_ is your target, and it's probably
lower than you think.  Breaking this loose will probably puncture a lung,
resulting in a hemo- or pneumothorax.

I don't know exactly how hard it is to do, but I do know that my first aid
classes teach us to look for this sort of thing from impacts in that area.

A blow to the rib cage is a glorified shove.  The ribs are made to take it.
But the xyphoid process is another matter.  Please keep in mind that this
does not fall under 'friendly' ways to incapacitate someone.  It's not just
knocking the wind out of them or making them vomit, as a blow to the solar
plexus will probably do.  This blow can kill in an unpleasant way, or at
least require surgical intervention to patch up torn tissue.

							--Lieven
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: Why they like Bruce
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:52:37 GMT

In article <62939@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>      (Wondering if this is our old friend Khan under a new name...)

Well, considering that the original article <1992Dec18.104506.803@hls.com>
from silatman@hls.com began:

>                THE OLD MAN HAD TIMING!
>                by Khalid Khan.

It's a bit hard to miss the connection.  I mean, if the man SIGNS it,
where's the CHALLENGE!?
	-Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: More ki/qi/chi & science
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:00:56 EST


14-Dec-92 geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) Re: ki and science
>My presupposition is you'll be asked "What are you going to measure?"; 
>followed closely by "What has this got to do with micro-Kelvin physics/in-
>organic chemistry/materials science/etc.?"...  

>... Give somebody an effect that
>will make a different number come up on their detection and analysis
>equipment and you'll have people flocking to your door. 

Well, perhaps you are correct, however, I would guess that even if you were to
identify a measurable, you'd still be laughed at and ridiculed.  It wouldn't
make any difference.  Most original thinkers are laughed at, but especially by
the orthodoxy, which in this example happens to be community of physics
scholars. 

>It's not ridicule as much
>as it is the realization that this type of study isn't what they spent
>10 years of college and post-grad work for.

Considering some of the crap that does get done in graduate study, I don't
think the study of some aspect of chi is really to far afield at all.

Besides, by definition on moves by chi.  That is, you are able to activate the
nerves and musculature of your body by chi.  I am fairly sure that at least
one of the sciences would have a "accepted explanation" for what I know to be
chi. 

And anyway, it really doesn't matter.
From: mnoell@reed.edu (I'm done dammit!!!)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: A western scientific look at Ki
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:34:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec17.043458.9486
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR



	Please pardon my ignorance and skepticism, but can anyone document
these episodes in which a mother lifts a car to save her child?  I too have
heard these stories, but it has never happened to me.  In fact it has never even
happened to anyone I know.  I'm not saying it cannot happen, rather I  am 
asking for first hand evidence.  This is the sort of story we would all like 
to believe, but I have never encountered anything more substanitive than 
rumor.  Thanks for any help.


Max
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Gordon.Wormser@launchpad.unc.edu (Gordon Wormser)
Subject: Re: Moving to Raleigh, North Carolina
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:32:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.093639.10883@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
shawmd@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael D Shaw) writes: 
>Well I finally got a job, so its off to Raleigh, North Carolina I go. Anyway 
>anyone have recommendations for instructors who teach either Wing Chun,Aikido,
>Tai Chi, or Kendo in the Raleigh-Carey-Durham area.

The Durham Aikido Dojo 
Address:  John Avery Boys & Girls Club,
          808 E. Pettigrew St, Durham, NC.  
Phone:    (919) 544-9150 
Sensei:   Joe Vaughan 
Style:    Hombu 
Affiliat: Aikido Association of America (Shihan Fumio Toyoda)

The Martial Arts Center 
Address:  328 West Morgan Street,
          Raleigh, NC 27601 
Phone:    (919) 834-1133 
Sensei:  John Lamont, Godan
Weapons:  Jo/Bokken kata (alike and mixed) 
Style:  Hombu 
Affiliat:  Aikido Association of America (Shihan Fumio Toyoda)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work,
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:48:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1gaj4bINNco7@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>(BTW, all you Judokas,a proper Kata Gatame is a complete strangle, not a 
>time-hold as taught in Judo.)

	Could you elaborate on this?  I know how to make it uncomfortable
by squeezing the neck betwen my upper and lower arm...



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: anthony@panzer.b17b.ingr.com (Anthony Shipman)
Subject: Re: Philosophy vs. Technique
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:03:50 GMT

I am more interested in the philosophy aspects of the martial arts than
the actual practice. I have studied Tae Kwon Do, but am no longer practising. I
also practice Tai Chi and Hatha yoga informally.

Does anybody know of any particularly good books about Martial Arts philosophy,
especially dealing with Chi (Ki, Qi, take your pick). I'm not interested in books
about straight martial arts techniques, nor am I looking for books strictly
limited to Zen or other philosophy. However, any books combining the two subject
areas would be great!

I am particularly interested in moving Chi around, whether through Tai Chi, Chi
Kung, or other techniques. I have a real problem doing this. Do you just
visualize the chi moving and it starts doing it, or what? I wonder if I am trying
to hard and therefore blocking the Chi movement. But I'm not exactly sure if what
I am trying (relax and visualize) is the right method. Anyone know of a really
good book(s) on Chi?

Thanks,

Anthony
From: rhenning@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: KARATE DOJO'S in Sacaramento Ca.?
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:59:57 GMT
Reply-To: rhenning@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu

I am thinking of moving to the Sacaremento area and would like to know
if there are any good DOJO's someone might recomend?  I am studying SHORIN-
RYU so the closest style I can get would be appricated.
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:02:23 GMT
Subject: Re: "Bloodsport" questions
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

> Bricks placed on top of one another with gaps in between
> are difficult to break, but it can be done. 

????  In my experience bricks stacked 'with gaps in between' are _much_ easier
to break than are bricks stacked w/o gaps in between....

Ray
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:05:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>Just remember that flashlights that contain more than 3 D batteries are
>considered a weapon by the police.  If you are carrying one or reach for
>one while the police are present, they can and will assume you are going
>for a weapon and respond accordingly.  

They are?  As defined in the CA Penal Code?  Which section??? 

Ray
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:51:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec18.195115.7957
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <1gr89tINN8gd@pith.uoregon.edu> toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman) writes:
>If "rely on pain for effectiveness" means that you get broken if you
>don't comply with the technique, then what doesn't rely on pain ?
>Every strike or lock I can think of does.

Many techniques do rely on pain for their effectiveness, but I can think of
quite a few which don't. For example:

1) Locks: Several neck locks. If your playmate doesn't comply the result is
   a broken neck. Lights go out and don't go on again when the spine is
   severed. If you are in the unfortunate situation of grappling with the
   aforementioned werewolf breaking a knee or ankle will at least allow you to
   run should you break free; leg locks don't exactly _rely_ on pain to be
   effective.

2) Strikes: All sorts of strikes to the neck and throat interfere with the
   ability of nerve impulses to get from A to B, the passage of air and/or
   blood, etc. Some also send the heart into fibrillation directly and do a
   variety of other things which are debilitating but have nothing to do with
   pain. Breaking off the xyphoid process, breaking the knee or ankle,
   rupturing spleen, bladder, or liver all cause potentially werewolf-stopping
   damage through means other than pain. 

These are just a few examples. I'm sure that other readers of this newsgroup
can come up with many others.

Out of curiosity what style do you (Mr. or Ms. Toman) study?
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:58:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


Dave, what proportions does this grab and pull U21 squad member have?  Is he
just strong or does he have one of those (handy for judo) low centre of gravity
figures too?

I recently discovered a useful counter for an over the back grip.  It happened
very nicely by accident on a guy at the club and worked well enough for me to
grab a groundwork hold on an opponent in a grading.  The guy was medium build
and taller than me, the girl at the grading was about my height and weight
(5'6"  approx 70 kg, and decreasing :-) ).

If the opponent takes an over-the-shoulder grip on my left shoulder and
somewhere on my right sleeve I grab anything with my left hand (it's not
important) and throw my right arm under his left armpit, getting really close.
At the same time I twist on my left foot, throwing myself backwards and lifting
the opponent to twist them with me to my left.  If it comes off well you can
twist 180 degrees and plant them beautifully.  If it doesn't work so well you
go down together on your sides but you are in a great position to get a hold
down and they don't know what hit them.   NOTE - on both occasions the
opponents were fighting in a fairly upright position I think you'd end up on
your back with one of those doubled up types.

Next time I get a short, or doubled over back grabber I'm going to try that
Kata-type whip.  I can see it working rather well if I can get them to donate
enough forward momentum.

Cheers

Brenda
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work, and which are dangerous.
Keywords: strike or strangle
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:36:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.194009.17988@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31) writes:

>Finally, I wonder, who all was taught the windpipe attack, where
>you put your 4fingers together in a knife strike, the thumb on the
>opposite side about an inch apart from the fingers and strike with the fingers
>parallel to and just outside of the windpipe.  Definately one to avoid receiving!  
>

With the thumb on one side of the windpipe, the fingers on the other?

We use a kind of "sword-peak" strike, with the fingers more like 
perpendicular to the windpipe, as the closing strike to every kata,
(sometimes it lands more parallel, though - hard to practice on live
bodies dontyaknow) combined with a simultaneous palm-strike,grab,
rrrrip to the groin.
From: toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 18 Dec 1992 01:08:13 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: bovine.uoregon.edu

In article <1gq5fnINNfck@hp-col.col.hp.com> gee@col.hp.com (Ken Gee) writes:

[.. about his wayward youth ..]
>  Most joint locks do rely on pain for effectiveness; at least the ones
>used in Aikido do.  Someone who does not feel pain and has a sense of invulner-
>ability is not going to be susceptible to these techniques.  Picture, if you
>will, a fingerlock, nikyo, or sankyo on someone who doesn't care if the joint
>breaks.  Someone on PCP could just allow the joint to break on his way after
>you. That arm or hand may be useless afterward, but he will still be able to
>do you damage with the other one.

If "rely on pain for effectiveness" means that you get broken if you
don't comply with the technique, then what doesn't rely on pain ?
Every strike or lock I can think of does.

I think yonkyo relies on pain, but nikyo and sankyo rely on attaching
to the attacker's center through their arm. Sure, if you don't care if
your arm gets broken it reduces their effectiveness, but that different
than relying on pain. That's relying on some iota of sanity. :)

>	The only thing that would be surely effective would to be to remove 
>his ability to come after you, which would probably require destroying at
>least one of his knees.  PCP usually adversely affects one's coordination, so
>it isn't likely he will be able to hop after you very fast.
>	While I don't regret that period of my life, I'm very happy to have
>survived it.
>
>Ken


						J. Toman