HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:00:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

alami@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Wassim Alami) writes:

Are you shying away now?
Do the quotations about arabs and moslems represent your beliefs or not? 
Don't hide behind the famous "they are not necessarily my views". If they 
are yours why don't you be responsible for once and say, "this is what I believe,
and that's why I'm posting it, for all people on the net to know"?

Elie writes:

Look, I am sure members of my community also thought (in the 30s) that girls 
should get married at 14, and maybe its better for the boys to learn than for 
the girls to. I also believe that the Saudis were involved in slavery. Heck
I am sure one could write a nice essay about early Lebanese immigration.
Some of what I posted is true, (given the fact that a picture is worth
a thousand words and that's probably what is bothering you). 
The difference between how the past about slavery is approached here and 
in the Arab world, is that you are taught is school and shown pictures how 
africans were sold at auction while I am sure arab textbooks don't show that.
(at least not while I was in Lebanon). A lot of the stuff is that book
is pure BS. (I'll post some of it later).
Take all my postings at face value, that's it. You're more than welcome 
to followup on the posting, but please STOP ATTACKING ME.

alami@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Wassim Alami) writes:

You don't believe that lebanese are arabs, but you flood the soc.culture.lebanon 
with images and information about arabs, a place where they don't belong 
according to your beliefs.

Elie writes:

Whether all the Lebanese are ethnic Arabs I am not sure.
But I know for a fact that the Lebanese were greatly
influenced by Arab culture. I do not subscribe to a unified Arab thought,
I truly believe that the Levantine Arabs are very much different than
the other Arabs (be they Christians or Moslems). One may even go further and 
say that the Lebanese differ from the rest in the sense that such a small 
area caters/has catered for so many ethnic backgrounds, beliefs etc... And 
that has had its impact on all the different communities.

alami@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Wassim Alami) writes:

Believe me, you wont do any harm to the arabic culture or other 
people's beliefs, because you are simply misinformed and you have a difficulty 
supporting any of your claims.

Elie writes:

The Arabic culture does enough negative publicity about itself. 
Besides, your statements makes an irrefutable statement that my existence
on this planet has its sole purpose to harm the arabic culture. :-)

I am not a typical Arab, nor am I a typical westerner. I am the best
of both with middle eastern family values. (I am starting to sound like
Dan Quayle) :-)

Veni, Vidi, Vici :-) "spelling may be wrong"

Elie (camel jockey) Mourad. 
(Lighten up guys)
(El walad walad, wlaw hakam balad) :-)  <--- special for hani.
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: New Joke
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:31:58 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


They tried to implement the new 911 emergency service system in Homs.
After one year of operation, no emergency calls were received.
After an investigation, the Syrian PTT found out that Homsis
had trouble finding button number 11.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: jokes
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:13:37 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


(Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
[.......]
>  BTW, while we are speaking about humour, it seems that Adel Imam, one of the
> greatest humourists in the Arab world is on the list of "kafirs that must be
> killed" of an Egyptian organization (likely the Muslim brotherhood). I read
> that in "Al Majallah" yesterday. Makes me wonder about the consequences of
> a state where such bozos are in power, no Umm Kulthum, no Fairuz, no Ziad
> (maybe this one will be liquitated in his turn) no Adel Imam, maybe they'll
> ban Arak also, can you imagine Lebanon (or Syria) without Arak ?. U.S.A without
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> McDonald will make more sens.

YEAH!!  maybe people will think soberly for a change:-)
and maybe the U.S. without the McDonald will be healthier..
And speaking of McDonald and people's habits, one Women
was ordering a McDLT (1/2 bound beef with zillion calories of FAT)
and insisted on getting DIET coke!!!

Anyway, what was your point:-)  

> --
> Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. ouicheck@imag.imag.fr
>     Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
> Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
>     Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
> 					

-HAni
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: zughbi@dmpe.csiro.au (another phoenics person)
Subject: Re: jokes
Organization: CSIRO. Div of Mineral and Process Engineering.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:07:44 GMT





The Solh government will hold a meeting today during which the date of
the next general elections is likely to be announced.

The oppostion to the elections is strong especially among the Christian
leaders in the 'Sharqiueh'. The Lebanese Forces, pro-Aoun (Farouk Abi 
Allamah), the Ahrar and Raymond Edde party issued separate calls for a
general strike to be held tomorrow (Thursday).

Opposition to the elections is not restricted to the Christians only, 
Dr Selim ElHoss said that the national reconciliation is more important
than the elections and is in favour of postponing them if they are going
to lead to new conflicts. Sheik Shamseddeinne also issued a statement
containing reservations with rerspect to the elections. Walid Jumblatt
seems not to be in favour of holding the elections either.

This new political dcrisis made the economy even worse and the US dollar is
being traded for over 2100 L.L. in the black market after the Reserve
bank stopped all supply and demand deals.

----------------------------------------
Some Aussie News:

Seyyed Ali El-Amin is visiting Australia and in media interviews he 
presented many admirable and interesting points of views. He balsted the
Iranian intervention in Lebanon and denounced the existence of what is
called weapons of the resistance in major residential centers.

The more interesting of his views is the practical and pragmatic way he he
uses in talking about Lebanon's problems. Some examples:
*  The migrants should have the right to vote.
*  Lebanon's economic problems are due to the governments' bad management.
*  The leadershpis, religious and political, should reflect the will of the
   people and that is not the case currently with the Shiite religious
   leadership.

It is difficult to summarise the way he articulates his staunch pro-Lebanon 
positions but I found him the nearest to Imam Moussa Sadr. I wonder if he ever 
makes to a more prominent position because it seems that not too many of his 
calibre are left in Lebanon. 

Does Basil or any of the Southerners know of Seyyed El-Amin? He is the head
of Imam Sadr's College in Tyre.
---------------------------------------
ElieM

Thanks for posting Habib Malik article. He (the son of Charles Malik) was my school 
mate back at the I.C.  and by the way Elie (and Christine, Madelaine and Boudi) there 
has been regular meetings between the Lebanese Forces and pro-Aoun representatives in 
Lebanon. Geagea said that the frost between the two camps has melted.  Is that heat 
transfer getting as far as NJ? (Jokingly).

Habib
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saleham@cauchy.mcs.clarkson.edu (Anwar M. Saleh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:44:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul24.164414.27931
Reply-To: saleham@cauchy.mcs.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun):
>
> Regarding slavery, there was a report on CNN about a week ago about how Arab
> men went to India to purchase female children as "brides".
> The age of the children was between 12 and 16 yrs old. The price of such a
> child was around $400.
>
> If that's not slavery, I wonder what is.
>
> Boudi

 It is slavery. Yes it is. But it is "Arab men" NOT the Arabs or Islam.
 There are Arab men who robbed, raped and killed people. There are
 criminals all over, especially in this country, the USA.
   
 There are many people in the West who do worse than that. But why to
 wait for a report when I see hispanic slaves? those Illegal alliens
 are in fact slaves. There are millions of them. The immigrations
 knows that. Go to NYC and NJ and see. They are allowed in to live
 in hiding so they accept any kind of work(many of them work for $1
 per hour) go to the farms of the south and see. This way, they have
 slaves while slavery is outlawed. 
  
 I don't beleive that there is a single country in the world with law  
 states "salvery is allowed". Practices, however, varies from one
 country to another. In the USA it is on the form of illegal alliens. 
 
 I hope that you get the point.
 
 Anwar Saleh
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:16:59 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

look anwar, this is not a taste test :-)

Direct your dissatisfaction about "slavery" in the USA or
native americans abuse to soc.culture.american not to me or 
soc.culture.lebanon. 

:-) 

Regards, Elie.
From: borrel@sigallah.dhhalden.no (Borre Ludvigsen)
Subject: Re: Lebanese Restaurants in London HOW COULD YOU LEAVE OUT!!
Reply-To: borrel@sigallah.dhhalden.no (Borre Ludvigsen)
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:57:03 GMT

In article <9207240058.AA06893@cscmgb.cc.ic.ac.uk> ocl@cc.imperial.ac.uk  
("Olivier M.J. Crepin-Leblond") writes:
> Here in London, we are well supplied with a number of Lebanese  
restaurants.

Admittedly he also writes:

> I'll describe only a small selection of them.

While he lists, 

> Maroush I
> Maroush II
> Maroush III
> Al Hamra
> Fakhreldine
> Al Safeer
> Beit Eddine
> Ranoush Juice

but has OMITTED what may be the BEST value in restaurants in London  
(nationality not considered). The PHOENICIA, 11/13 Abingdon Road (Off  
Kensington High Street), London W8. Tel: 071 937 0120. The food is  
consistently excellent, the quantities are more than ample, the prices are  
reasonable and extremely good value, and above all the service is  
friendly, courteous. They even speak Lebanese instead of the condecending  
French some are prone to. It merits at least one visit every time I leave  
this cold country for the nearest I can get to a good Lebanese meal  
barring home cooking. Try their mezza!

- Barre Ludvigsen (borrel@dhhalden.no)
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:58:29 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Jul26.021955.14741@njitgw.njit.edu>,
elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:

> I repeat one more time.
> The INFOs are not necessarily my views nor are they my words.
> They reflect how the West (in particular the USA) viewed the Middle
> East in the 1930s....
 

Fine I agree with you that the west had a misconception for the Middle-East
in the 1930's and probably still does, but why promote it ?  
If your aim is to criticize the West's distorted view of Arabs, then you could
(should?) have included a disclaimer clearly stating that this caption does
not your reflect opinion of how Arabs views Blacks.
 
> You people are too touchy. ...

Probabbly true, but that should be understandable  since we are constantly
bombarded by distorted views of Arabs in the Western media.

Finally I am glad that no one imnterpreted my statement as a personal
attack but rather a  reminder that empty words can easily be twisted around
to reflect the writer's biased oipinions rather than describe accurately
what he perpetrates to be describing.


> Gee.
> Elie.

Basil
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Dr. Taef evicted (among others).  :-)
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:00:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


	BEIRUT, Lebanon (UPI) -- Tension mounted Saturday between the pro-
Syrian government and Christian opponents after Lebanese Forces chief
Samir Geagea refused to hand over his militia headquarters in compliance
with a Cabinet decision to regain control of all public institutions
seized by militias during years of war.
	Army soldiers backed by five tanks moved at dawn to seize the
Christian headquarters in the Beirut districty of Karantina and asked
Geagea and his bodyguards to walk out, security sources said.
	The move prompted about 1,500 of Geagea's followers to gather at the
Maronite Patriarchate in Bkirki, 13 miles north of Beirut, chanting
slogans against the army and in support of the Christian leader.
	The angry demonstrators tried to storm the Patriarchate upon the
return of Patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir from the northern town of Zhgorta
where he attended the funeral of former President Suleiman Franjieh. But
army troops who were rushed to the scene blocked the road and fired
shots in the air.
	Witnesses on the scene told United Press International that at least
seven people were injured and taken to hospitals.
	Patriarch Sfeir, addressing the crowd, called for the need to
preserve public liberties in Lebanon ``regardless of religious or
political affiliations.''
	An army communique said it had taken measures in implementation of a
government decision adopted last week to regain control of all
government institutions.
	``No harm was done to any of the occupants,'' the communique said.
	Earlier, the army ordered the eviction of personnel and equipment of
the Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. television station from the building it
has used north of Beirut since 1985.
	They also took control Saturday of a police station seized by the
pro-Iranian Hezbollah in 1982 in the ancient city of Baalbeck, 52 miles
east of Beirut. The handover took place smoothly, security sources said.
	On Friday, troops evicted Druze occupants of a post office in
southern Beirut, Shiite militiamen from an agriculture academy in the
eastern Bekaa Valley and Sunni Muslim fundamentalists from a building
they occupied in Tripoli in northern Lebanon.
	The move came a day after the Lebanese Cabinet set dates for holding
public elections in three stages between Aug. 23 and Sept. 6 despite
mounting Christian opposition.
	Geagea and other Christian leaders, including ousted army commander
Gen. Michel Aoun, who is now in exile in France, and Maronite Patriarch
Nasrallah Sfeir, opposed holding the polls before Syrian pulls out 20,
000 of its troops from Beirut.
	There are some 35,000 Syrian troops stationed in Lebanon.
	On Thursday, Christian areas observed a one-day general strike to and
their leaders threatened to adopt more drastic steps if the government
still insist on holding the polls this summer.
From: mmokhtar@attmail.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: goodlife.gif: INFO
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:52:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Originator: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com

In article <1992Jul28.182110.16603@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad) writes:

>BTW. who said that Muslims believe that the souls will be weighed 
>there? This is news to me, and I still don't believe unless someone
>can produce convincing proof.

  There is no convincing proof. This is a fabrication like so many other
ideas promulgated by those who have little use for the truth.

  Beware of those who spread them.

Assalamu `alaykum,

Mazen Mokhtar
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: schoolboys.gif: INFO
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:55:09 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul22.224153.17969@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, alami@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Wassim Alami) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Jul22.181412.28967@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:
|> |> Only the boys go to school in Arabia, since, according to strict Mohammedan
|>                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> |> teaching, it would be a waste of time to educate girls, who spend their 
|>    ^^^^^^^^^
|> |> lives attending to household affairs.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> Since when you where an expert on Mohammadian teaching and moslem affairs?
|> If you want to discuss a religion that you are an not familiar with, I suggest
|> you go back to the source of that religion,,i.e. Koran, Hadith and even reliable 
|> Ijtihad, understand the issue, and support your claim.
|> 
|> Until then please stop throwing around theories that you don`t really believe in.
|> 
|> Wassim Alami
|> 
|>  

It is not my theory. All photos and captions come verbatim from and old book
I acquired which probably represents how the USA viewed the world just
after world war II and a bit before. 

Any comments direct them to: (if any are still alive :-))

Lands and Peoples
The world in color
Volume III: The near and middle east
The Grolier society

Editor-in-chief
Gladys D. Clewell, B.A.

Editor-in-chief (1929-1940)
Holland Thompson, PhD LLD

Introduction by:
Isaiah Bowman, PhD
(President of Johns Hopkins University
 Former director of the American Geographical Society of New York)

Foreword by:
H. R. Ekins
Author and Lecturer
War Correspondent in the Far East and Ethiopia


Regards, Elie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Nassif)
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:27:37 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


 (Bassem Medawar) writes:

> I suggest that we package european parliament resolution in a letter addressed
> to the UN/White-house/state-dept/..  enticing them to do the same.
>

What and who gives the EC the authority to draft resolutions
dectating what action should be taken in an independent country
like Lebanon and its internal affairs?

We understand that Iraq is undergoing such a process since they 
have lost a war, were aggresive and violated international law.
But what business they have to do with the Lebanese affairs?

Count me out!
-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: RE elie dib wardini et son bouquin
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:03:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.134313.4470@cicb.fr> poey@cicb.fr (Pierre Poey) writes:
>Salut mon pote
>A propos de ton livre (si on peut l'appeller livre ) je n'y
>rien trouver d'interessant
>Soit plus raisonnable et vas te chercher d'autres chats a fouter
>Bye

est-que c'est ton favorable passe temps?

>Regards
>Piese
>

elie wardini  :)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: petrak@watson.ibm.com (Raja Petrakian)
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:27:18 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Jul31.165621.878@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com 
(Mazen Mokhtar) writes:

|>   The problem with uniting Syria and Lebanon is that the Lebanese do not
|> like the way Syria is governed. We should remeber however that, there never
|> was a country called Lebanon until the French carved it out of Syria. This
|> is of course an action taken by a colonial power, as a result it has no
|> legitimacy. If we accept this action, we are in effect accepting colonial
|> rule whose aim was never to help us, but to divide us in order to be able
|> to maximize its profits.
|>
|> Regards,
|> 
|> Mazen Mokhtar
|> 

You are historically wrong by saying that there never was a country called
Lebanon until the French carved it out of Syria.  Lebanon has its
foundation in the Emirats of Mount Lebanon which are political entities
that date back to the 18th century and earlier.  The Motassarifiat of
Mount Lebanon is a political reality that was recognized by all the 
powers of the 19th including the Ottomans.  On the other hand,
you have to go back about a thousand years in history to encounter
a political entity called Syria.  By the way, an independent Syria
only existed during biblical times, that is more than 2000 years ago. 

You can hardly say that something was carved out of something that
does not exist.  Get your facts straight.

Raja
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:42:16 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

In article <shV-rBB@engin.umich.edu> hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Nassif) writes:
>
> (Bassem Medawar) writes:
>
>> I suggest that we package european parliament resolution in a letter addressed
>> to the UN/White-house/state-dept/..  enticing them to do the same.
>>
>
>What and who gives the EC the authority to draft resolutions
>dectating what action should be taken in an independent country
>like Lebanon and its internal affairs?

Did you read the resolution?

It expresses an opinion and urges the president of the European parliament
to send observers in coordination with the Lebanese government.  If Lebanon
does not allow the observers, I suppose it de-legitmizes the results of the
election and Lebanon will not get economic aid from Europe.

THe analogy between UN/Iraq and Europe/Lebanon is not valid.

bassem


>
>We understand that Iraq is undergoing such a process since they 
>have lost a war, were aggresive and violated international law.
>But what business they have to do with the Lebanese affairs?

I imagine some Lebanese (like us) lobbied them to adopt such a resolution.
I salute the Lebanese living in Europe who got this result.

bassem

>
>Count me out!
>-Hani
>-- 
> ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
>|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
> | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
> | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: Ron.Feigen@panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Another joke -non Homsi this time- (was Re: More HUMOUR!)
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:15:34 GMT
Organization: Motorola New Enterprises

In article <9207182255.AA00499@panther2.panther.mot.com> Ron.Feigen@panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul18.121437.23271@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:
>
>I doubt there is much inferiority... (At least in my neighborhood :-))
>
>Reminds me of a good one:
>
>Joke #10 ?
>----------
>
>Q: Why did the sale of black bras boom when the Israelis invaded Lebanon ?
>A: Cause some enterprising Lebanese started to cut them and sell them as
>   yarmulkes.
>
>Shalom!
>Elie. 

Elie,

There is a fundemantal problem with this joke!  Being "intimately" familiar with both
yarmulkes (owned and/or worn by me) and bras (not owned and/or worn by me, black or 
otherwise).  I have found that as a rule yarmulkes are "one size fits all".
Viva Le differance!!! (excuse my French)



>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon