HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:28:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.034511.27697@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:

You see, it's the awareness of all those points that you make in your article
that produces a personal tension.  I know I'm being greedy and selfish and
that I choose against some people, but I'd still do it again.

I do this even knowing that marriage is denied same sex bisexual and homosexual
couples, and in thinking that this is no different than accepting a job offer
from an employer that I know discriminates against homosexuals and bisexuals.
(Well, not exactly the same.)  In that sense I don't feel that having gotten
married before coming out as bi is any sort of an out -- it's as if (in my
analogy) I learned that my employer discriminated after I started working.
If I continued working the sin is the same as before.

>-Coe

I'll just have to be a married queer, and hope for understanding from some,
take some lumps from others, and carry on.


Brad
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: yet another yet another muffin
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:00:41 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Jul29.215934.10874@ncsu.edu>, revanbus@eos.ncsu.edu (RONALD E VAN-BUSKIRK) writes:
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
>    This is my first posting to the net, and I guess therefore my de-
> muffining...

 Hi! Welcome to soc.bi! and,
 
 *hugs*
  *snuggles*
   *licks*
    *smooches*
     *and other such sundry e-pda's*

 -- Fenthe
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: OUT/LOOK bi issue follow-up
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:10:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <5344@ebt-inc.UUCP> ebt-inc!pks@uunet.uu.net (Pearl Stark) writes:
+->not have a LARGE economic endowment. I.e. one of the goals in the
+->HETEROSEXUAL privilege, is having a male partner who has a greater
+->financial capability.
+
+This is interesting.  because when I read this post (I haven't seen the
+issue either) I interpreted it as "she is stupid if she thinks male 
+privilege is restricted to money, because there's alot more in it 
+than that."  I wonder if it is any clearer in context.  


To give more examples of some of my thought patterns on economics
and marriage, I relate the following.

An In-law made the following statement recently, "I'll never LIVE
with another man without the marriage" ...sometime later... "the man
feels that 'why buy the cow, if he gets the milk for FREE'"

At which point my, "if we turn a relationship into a commodity
exchange, then what's the 'return' for 'buying' the cow, i.e. what's
the 'milk'". At which point I was told that I had a typically 'male'
point of view, and end of conversation.

But my mind continued, "furthering the analogy, if the cow doesn't
produce milk, then either impregnate it or if it's too old, off to
the glue/MacDonalds factory with it".

I interpreted the in-law's motive for marriage/commitment as an
economic option and that some 'man' (pronounce with that breathy
southern drawl) was need to provide the 'respite' from the 'stress'
of supporting one's self. (The lead in was, "Gosh, I so tired of
being the 'sole' support of my family", well who doesn't feel that).

Of course there are a large number of men who use the non-commitment
of living together to 'rip-off' women for their support, in essence,
the women become traditional 'wives'. However, it would seem that
more enlighted people could come to a better living relationship
that has a different attitude about support, contribution, and
commitment, which does have both the long term idea, but the
realization that people change and relationship change not
necessarily 'end'.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The Party
Keywords: Phwar! phew lick slurp snog hug wow
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:56:10 GMT

I had such a nice time at the party. For those who wish it:

          IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
         /     *HUG*   hug     \
         I  *hug*   *hug*      I
        / *teddy-bear*hug*      \
        I    (small.timid.hug)  I
       /  (shy.hug)  *warm*hug*  \
       I  *HUGE*HUG*   *hug*     I
      / hug  hug     *happy*hug*  \
      IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
      IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
      \  *slightly*sad*hug*  hug  /
       I *HUG*   *hug*    *HUG*  I
       \  *confident*hug*  *hug* /
        I hug  *soothing*hug*   I
        \  *a*hug*of*trust*     /
         I*HUG* hug *hug*  hug I
         \   *friendly*hug*    /
          IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Not original but should be shared.

Angi
From: atmpas@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Gay/Lesbian Sitcom Character
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:36:08 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster


	Umm, have you got Mr. Humphries from the British show 'Are You Being 
Served?', a situation comedy set in a Department store.  Famous catchphrase was
'I'm free!'.  Given the early date (which I can't remember), it was all 
sterotypes and vague allusions, but it was blatant enough for the (straight) 
actor, John Innman, to suffer permanent problems with finding women.  (which 
may be an urban legend.  The original date must have been 70s, I would guess.
Are You Being Served was on as early as I can remember.

		- Paul
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.sex,alt.sex.motss
From: silver@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nina Karp)
Subject: Re: search for sexy/not-trashy fiction
Keywords: SEX in a _Public Library_!!!
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:41:35 GMT

Anais Nin, _Delta of Venus_ and _Little Birds_.  Not to mention the diaries...

what a woman.

(nina)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: wthompso@zeus.UWaterloo.ca (Willard the Wombat)
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:46:13 GMT

"SOAP"
Soap Opera parody
Character: Jodie Dallas (played by Billy crystal)

-- bigger is not ALWAYS better
From: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Opinions sought (long)
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:23:02 GMT
Reply-To: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>By the sounds of the soc.bi Edinburgh party, if it had been there I'd have
>shown her, but it just wasn't that sort of party (boo!).

Actually there wasn't much nudity at the soc.bi party.  Men without shirts was
as far as it went.

Dave.
--

		    That's *Dr* Pervert to you!
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:25:36 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

>In article <23971@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>>>Kay molesting Justin (both standing though Kay is bent
>>Yeah, we know ...

><giggle> Ya bitch!  I was *waiting* for someone to come out with that...

Oooh, you say the nicest things ...  mustn't let the side down, eh? I
was actually rather surprised I got in with it first. 

>>So what *did* Ciaran find in Alex's navel??

>Based on my experiences in Alex's navel: blue T-shirt fluff, I should
>guess.  It's a yummy navel: one of those nice deep ones that can take
>a good length of tongue.  Much better than sticky-out navels.

Ah well, who got there first?  Could Kay have cleaned Alex's navel of
blue tshirt fluff before Ciaran got a look-in, or a taste-in I should
say?  Await tomorrow's exciting episode of _Journey to the Bottom of
Alex's Navel_ ...

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
From: nigel@isgtec.com (Nigel Burnett)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Photo Developing (Confidential Service)
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:16:29 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario


Since a few people have asked about getting BW film developed and printed,
here's my modest proposal.  I will develop rolls of 24 or 36 and provide
a contact sheet (an 8x10 with all images 24x36mm - made by laying the
negatives directly on top of a piece of paper).  This will cost you US$10
for one roll, US$8 each for 2-4 rolls.  The 5th will be $10, 6-8 $8 each).
Can you tell that I have a 1 reel and a 4 reel tank?  Cash or cheque or
check is fine but cash is probably not so safe in the mail.

On the assumption that you'll want prints, I'll mail you the contact sheet
and you can e-mail me requests for enlargements.  Your basic full-frame
non-cropped 5x8 will cost $1.00 plus $2.00 (I think) for mailing.  I'll
send the negatives back with the enlargements unless you don't want any
in which case you can ask me to destroy them or send them to you.  If you
want lots of copies of one pic or fancy 8x10 on fibre paper or 11x14s,
we'll discuss prices individually.

I wouldn't worry about US/Canada customs.  Unprocessed film won't be
inspected of course.  Since 95% of my company's sales are to the US,
there are people travelling there almost daily (including me) so US bound
stuff can get mailed stateside.  For the UK, I don't know how likely
they are to open 1st class mail - isn't that still illegal?

Anyway, is this acceptable?  Suggestion welcomed;  flames>>/dev/null.

Nigel


Nigel Burnett:  business: 3030 Orlando Dr., Mississauga, Ont.,  416-672-2100
Send e-mail to nigel@isgtec.com, uunet.ca!isgtec!nigel, or nigel@isgtec.UUCP
--
"It is an infantile superstition of the human spirit that virginity would be
thought a virtue and not the barrier that separates ignorance from knowledge"                                                                       Voltaire
Nigel Burnett:  business: 3030 Orlando Dr., Mississauga, Ont.,  416-672-2100
Send e-mail to nigel@isgtec.com, uunet.ca!isgtec!nigel, or nigel@isgtec.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: *Hot* *bi* *babes* (Was: 'women's' vs 'lesbian')
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:51:07 GMT

In <5493@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> dente@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente) writes:
>IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>|> from what i know of chauvenistic straight men (too much)
>|> the reason bi wimmin are so interesting is the possibility
>|> of a threeesome.  doesn't every "hot-blooded stud" want
>|> to have two women at once?
>
>Personally, this "hot-blooded stud" has always fantasized about being in bed
>with a man and a woman (well, not always - I sometimes fantasize about other
>things too - this one is just for when I'm feeling selfish).

Hmmm... strange. <in-joke alert> I heard that a certain other poster
has a fantasy of getting it on with a pet labrador. What can one say to
that except woof, woof!

>On a more serious note (if you've bothered to read this far), I think that most
>of us recognise the (bi woman) =(I get to join in with some hot lesbian action)
>mentality of many men - witness Ciaran (I think)'s recent reference to "HOT
>BI BABES" - I for one took it as a satirical reference to just this.  (Yes -
>it may be unbelievable, but it seems to be true: behind those puppy-dog eyes,
>and outward "I live to be rude" persona lurks a brain capable of the dizzy
>heights of satire).

Satire? Nah, I don't recall using any smileys on that posting so it
couldn't be satire. Actually, after the party, Tanaquai (sp?) stumbled
on my dark secret. I am really a heterosexual who wants to desperately
get it on with *hot* *bi* *babes*. To keep my cover intact, I
occasionally have to do despicable things with guys. But hey, you know,
some things are worth it. _Especially_ if you get to do despicable
things with guys like Alex.


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: Edinburgh soc.bi party
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:02:15 GMT

 pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>>
>>Tanaqui, winking at Iseult in party-provocative mode    
>
>Well look who decided to make an appearance.  I was beginning to wonder
>if you were hiding from us.
>
>Isn't it interesting that no one has wondered where Ciaran disappeared
>to that very evening?

I wondered aloud: & thus discovered the answer <smug grin>.

>We need more floor shows...

Don't we always? & people didn't take advantage of the one in Peter's room...

Tanaqui
From: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Subject: Re: TV Shows with lesbigay characters: What I can recall.
Reply-To: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:11:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.125351.1598@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

>Married, With Children	One show has Al "turn gay" for an episode.
>
>--Julie


I think I have seen that episode, but it was not Al turns gay.  It was more
like Al's wife dates a gay man and the gay man's long term partner got
jealous.

I ma not sure if that's the same episode.  If it's not, well... here's a
new one for your list.  8-)

Grin,
Ken   elee74l@jetson.uh.edu

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: bi(ish) book recommendation
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:37:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.001015.26911@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>Can anyone come up with a cunning plan to overcome the dollars-pounds conversion
>problem? I'm quite happy to ship stuff to friends, but I can't cope with too
>many requests for 3.99 pounds books plus postage... no job yet!

Ask for an international (postal) money order, or, within Europe, for a
Eurocheque written in your currency. The money order will cost money,
but at least that is paid by the sender instead of by you. Or have them
mail you a five pound note. (Even better, have them give you a tenner
in person, *grin*)

>I read _The Man who Folded Himself_ as _The Man who Fondled_...

*grin* Why didn't I see the difference before I looked twice?
I wounder if there is a _The Man who Nibbled His Own Earlobes_ ..

>Tanaqui
-Olaf.
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh soc.bi party
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:19:16 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:

>Isn't it interesting that no one has wondered where Ciaran disappeared
>to that very evening?

Oooh Ellen, you stirrer <wink> - no, no, nothing to do with me!  I
didn't disappear until I was too drunk to stand up ... so the Irishman
seems to be taking the scenic route home ...

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
From: gtoal@gem.stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Articles Needed on ROTC vs Gays/Lesbians
Date: 26 Jul 92 10:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <1992Jul25.034020.5246@ultb.isc.rit.edu> pjb4288@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Pete - Toonatic - Boulay) writes:
:Hi my name is Pete Boulay (personal post after this business one) and I'm a
:member of the RIT Commission for Cultural Diversity.
:
:We are in the process of setting up a day of panels and discussions based on
:the issue of ROTC's refusal to enroll homosexuals, bisexuals and lesbians into
:their college courses. Our college is going through a time where a decision
:MUST be made about this.

You're kidding, right?  When *I* was in the OTC it was practically
compulsory.  Where do you think I discovered my sexuality...  Seriously,
we had at least two guys and I think about 4 women who were openly gay or bi...

G
Oops - you meant *US* OTCs.  OK...
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Dusky Beauty Tells All
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:13:47 GMT

In article <76728@ut-emx.uucp>
     keisha@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Coed of the Damned) writes:

>Hello, Keisha here, demuffining.

   Hello, Keisha!

>"Don't do it again; that's nasty," he said...

>No one ever sat me down and said that it was wrong.  I learned about sex
>from open-minded books, but I still got the impression that the "right way"
>for me to do things was to be with a man.

   Hey, Keisha... _someone_ told you that loving the cute little blond
headed girl was wrong, yes?  Apparently, and sadly, you DID get the
message.  We all did; it's what society does to us.

>But the desire to make love to a woman, as a woman, never went away.

   Yay!

><sigh>  Sometimes I feel like I'm the only bisexual woman in the world.

   When you don't know of anyone else, you can feel alone.  But
remember, you're not... we're here, and we're a little queerer than
most, not as queer as some...

>Something else that worries me about this whole thing is being identified
>as some sort of oversexed weirdo who can't keep her clothes on.  I know
>that I'm not like that.  I believe that if I have these desires, I should
>act on them, as long as the acts are consensual and the other person 
>involved (male or female) is as open and understanding as I am willing to
>be.

>Or am I just deluding myself?

   Welcome to the crux of the matter... _I_ believe that excluding
people from our lives, notably our SEX lives, because they happen to be
born with one set of hardware or the other, is just plain damned
stupid.

   But that's part of living in the here and the now.

   Some people live in the past, and look at history, and percieve the
overwhelming construction of masculine authority as something
ineffable and needing of change, and in the meantime getting away from
men, avoiding masculinity, is the path to that change.  Lesbian
seperatists want women to get away from men, because men have brought
us to the state of the world we are in now.

   Some people live in the media, because 2 dimensions are easier than
three.  Since the majority of the people running the media are men, and
heterosexual, they feed each other these images of women as oversexed
animals turning to each other for sexual release when men aren't
available.

   Neither image is helping you, Keisha.  But, they're there and
they're influencing the way people look at you.  I'm afraid you'll have
to deal with them, but we're here to make sure you don't have to do it,
alone.

>Comments, suggestions, hugs are welcomed.  Please be gentle. :-)

   *Hugs*, then, and gentle ones at that.

         Elf !!!

-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Young and Queer (again): LONG
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:29:43 GMT

>
>When I was in about second grade or so, we got a modem for our computer.
>Later, I found some BBS numbers and called them. (Was about youngest
>among people there, which has changed locally. Anyhow.)  One system in
>town is 'Cyberspace' and turns out to be run by a gay guy (A real bear,
>and quite friendly, BTW.).  I didn't know this at the time.  He logged
>in one days as 'shadowcat' and we chatted for some time.  (BTW I was 13
>at the time, I think.)  He was hitting on me and at the time I thought

Hi Jeff!!!
*pounce* *smooch*




Now let me get this straight (you know what I mean, kitten)...you were
13 in second grade????  That puts you in about grade 6 or 7 right now,
then doesn't it?

Just thought I'd ask...

Daemon


-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ D.C.X. Ferguson, "Daemon"          Industry, Science & Technology Canada   +
+ grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca          Policy Sector                           +
+                                    Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA                 +
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: making waves (at work)
Keywords: BGLAD (Silentium = Mors)
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:38:11 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

elee52@castle.ed.ac.uk (W Gammie) writes:

>    I'm wearing black jeans with black suede high heels.  The sides of
>  my hair are tied back with a black ribbon.  A little eye make-up and
>  my usual jewelry completes the picture (oh a t-shirt on top too).

Fem gear to work!  Knock em dead, Bill ...

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: Parents (was Re: Invisibility)
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (jenneke)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:48:06 GMT

On a not entirely related note, I was talking to my mother (who's been 
generally supportive) about why I'd be upset if Colorado's Amendment 2
passes. The conversation went something like this:

jenneke: Because I intend to live as an out bisexual if I go to Colorado.

Mom: I don't understand why you're making your life so difficult.

jenneke: Argh.

Gee, thanks, Mom. Just what I wanted to hear. "Go hide in a closet. It'll
make your life easier." NOT!!

Sigh.

-jenneke, really hoping Colorado Amendment 2 doesn't pass.

My biggest budget problem is food:
My stomach wants four meals a day.
My budget wants two.
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:24:23 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White) writes:

>I don't know about the het men, alls I know is that this hot bi babe
>is terribly turned on my the thoughts of two womem  :-)

Well yes, this particular horny hot bi babe is also rather turned on bi
the thought of two (or more!) women .. oh dear, does this mean that I'm
not considering the real people behind this fantasy?  Doesn't *feel*
like that to me ...

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss