HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:47:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.231148.28198@cheshire.oxy.edu>,
leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>1.  The LAT generally covers other party candidates to some degree...
>
>My opinion is that no free trade agreement should be executed without
>also agreeing to a free market in labor (i.e. open borders for human
>resources as well as natural resources).
>
>The Libertarian platform strikes me as endorsing the fallacious concept
>that illegal immigrants suck money out of social welfare programs... the
>only social welfare programs illegal aliens put a dramatic burden on are
>the educational system, primarily in the grammar and secondary levels...
>which I don't think fall under the Libertarian platforms arguments.

Thom, have you actually read the LP platform on this issue?  You
can get it from the pub/libernet directory.  Here's what I actually
told the Register (you can find more of my position state,ents in
pub/libernet/misc/JuneGenis):

The following statements were prepared by June R. Genis, Libertarian
for U.S. Senate (full term), for the Orange County Register.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
-------------------

In the later half of the nineteen century this country saw the
beginning of a wave of legal immigration lasting about 50 years
which has been unmatched in our history before or since.  Rather
than bringing down the standard of living for everyone in the
country this influx of immigration was parallelled during the same
period by the most rapid rise ever in the real standard of living
for all Americans.

Our problem is not immigration but the public dole.  We should allow
everyone into this country who has the means to support themselves
and is willing to wave any entitlement to public assistance.
Current residents should be free to assist new immigrants become
established, either by direct sponsorship or contributions to
organizations running resettlement programs.  Most of the 19th
century immigrants to this country were fleeing economic oppression
just as the Haitians are today.  Just as the children and
grandchildren of those immigrants are now productive contributors to
the American economy, so too can we look forward to the similar
assimilation of current Haitian refuges.

Some say that we can no longer absorb immigrants as we used to
because we have lost our frontier, but frontiers never disappear
they simply move.  Today our frontiers are not the plains of
Kansas but the realms of high technology and outer space.
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: I'm enraged.
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:24:23 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <145en7INNevg@agate.berkeley.edu> faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher) writes:
>In article <4865@gold.gvg.tek.com> mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson) writes:
>
>> I am a registered Green like you, and I will be voting for the
>> Clinton/Gore ticket.  Vote the Clinton/Gore ticket. I acknowledge that
>> is a piss-poor start, but what will a non-vote, or a vote for Bush,
>> accomplish?
>
>I am a Green also, and I decided to vote for Clinton over Perot some
>time ago, because for all his promises, Perot gave little sign of
>being pro-environment.  ("We all want to fix the environment, but
>first we have to fix the economy.")  Clinton's choice of Gore showed
>that he really does understand the threat to the planet, and that he
>puts it high on his list of priorities.  I wish he had said more about
>it in his acceptance speech, though. (I just listened to it, and it
>was nice but there were no surprises.)
>
>	Wayne

Hmmmmmm .... I was going to send him articles personally on
the NWO....which IMHO explains why his dad is going thru this
and why he is enraged.....but considering that this is th
election year......I'm going to post them all here under the
title... I'm enraged: <Subject>.

Perhaps a little truth telling in Bush bashing is in order!

Len
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Subject: Re: I'm enraged.
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:35:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.205202.18696@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>Ah, but I never saw much of that money... from the age of ten to sixteen,
>I got a $5, then $10/week allowance.  

HOW MUCH????  Zowie, and I thought when my allowance went from $.10 to $.25
a week I was in the Big Time.  Of course, my siblings and I started out (with
a nickel allowance) much younger than you did; we got our "raise" to $.10 when
the oldest was about 10 years old.  I guess that's the difference between you
merely middle-class types and us upper-middle-class tycoons.

>... Every damn thing I've bought since age 16 has come from my own earnings,
>or from gifts from relatives.  

Why'd you start so late?  I had my SS# and a paying job at the age of 14 (and
yes, lost my allowance when I got it, too).

It's amazing that you can function on so little.  (sarcaz-alert for the
clueless)


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|		"Never" is about six months.   -- Charlie Gibbs		      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:24:59 GMT
            <1992Jul22.164241.13921@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1992Jul22.164241.13921@odin.corp.sgi.com>
 by zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide):

:=========================================
:> June Genis, Libertarian
:
:> Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
:> work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
:> illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.
:
: Well, of course it would fall. Since you would essentially be legalizing the
: current system.

I disagree.  One of the big beefs about immigrants, legal AND illegal,
is that they come over, make babies, then get on welfare.  Plus, when
they get sick, hospital emergency rooms are required to treat them,
whether or not they have the ability to pay.  There are also other
entitlement programs they become eligible for, despite failure to show
green cards.

I'm not making any judgements on your opinion here, or the merits or
lack thereof in June's position or the current system: I'm just making 
a correction to your statement.

(I'm sure June can state her position a hell of a lot better than I can
anyway!)

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
The amount of funding necessary for a government program increases
in proportion to the funding already acquired.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Immigration (was Re: June Genis in the Orange County Register)
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:36:04 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul27.214021.8356@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> In article <nr5jeso@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> > In article <1992Jul27.202048.2470@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
# # #Somehow, I can't picture someone actually preferring living on the dole in
# # #a foriegn country, especially considering how pitiful the lifestyle is,
# # #to working in their own country.  One would have to be pretty desperate.
# # 
# # This is a fairly naive viewpoint.  The conditions in america, even on the dole,
# # are vastly superior to the conditions in Haiti, for example.  I can very
# # easily see why people would want to get the fuck out of Haiti, even if it
# # means being on the dole in America.
# 
#   In my experience, most people coming to America are not coming here
# to live on the dole. They want to be productive members of society
# and appreciate the opportunities America has to offer (the &^%$#&% INS
# not withstanding). If anything, IMHO, it is our idiotic welfare system 
# that is the corrupting influence.
#   I sort of think that the welfare issue is sort of a red harring
# as well. I think that most folks who use this line are really
# rationalizing there own xenophobic thoughts. (Note, I am *not*
# accusing June of this). 
# -- 
# 		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)

I have to agree with Mr. Thomas on this.  My experience is that
foreigners coming here (especially illegals) are among the hardest
working people our society now has.  The problem of lazy welfare
recipients isn't the foreigners -- it's people born right here,
who have no concept of what real poverty is.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:42:41 GMT

In article <18982@fritz.filenet.com>, The Chipmunk writes:
=========================================
>Baraba Boxer, Democrat.

>Supports reasonable levels of immigration based on appropriate limits
>which [are politically correct].  Believes in "secure borders."  Voted 
>for $10 million increased funding for the INS.

Gag. This issue really separates the sheep from the goats. Boxer's 
position can be reduced to "well, we'll let some of you little people 
in here, but we're building a wall to make sure that only the ones
we like get in."

=========================================
>Bruce Herschensohn, Republican

>Opposes constitutional provision granting citizenship to any child born
>on US soil.  Says at least one parent should be a citizen.  Would
>increase Border Patrol funds.  Does not support physical impediments
>such as walls or ditches.

And the corresponding Conservative position of "You're not going to get
any benefit from coming here, and we won't let you become citizens, but
we'll leave the gate open since we need the $5.00 per day workers and 
we'll wink at that..." 

=========================================
>June Genis, Libertarian

>Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
>work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
>illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.

Well, of course it would fall. Since you would essentially be legalizing the
current system. Since another Lib. proposal is the removal of the 
minimum wage, this position is just taking Herschenson's position
above board. June, how do you feel about the citizenship issue? 

>Interesting.  I wonder why the Libertarian candidate is the only one not
>in favor of throwing more money at the problem??  B-{)

Well, the Libertarians are good at saving money....

>Even more interesting, that a fairly mainstream paper (the Orange County
>Register is not exactly a throw-away!) is actually putting forth some
>effort to cover ALL the candidates, instead of just the Big Two.
>I find this quite refreshing!

I'll agree with that 100%.

JZ

Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:57:53 GMT

Excellent, dude.

Hmm... is Mr. Governor going to continue this charade when the banks and the
people start getting pissed about giving the state no interest loans to the
tune of multiple billions?

Wonder what cashing those notes does to the reserves of these banks.

Ahh, but you ain't seen nothing yet... when my Grandpa was working for the
City of Santa Monica, his first two *years* were paid in warrants...

and he started work in '39.

Hmm...

Thom
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"? A lot of people don't want to think about it
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:29:18 GMT
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.

In article <91365@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
    >I'm surprised you haven't reported on the faring of NAMBLA in
    >the last SF Gay Pride parade. NAMBLA was met with a roar of
    >boos all along the parade route.
    >
    >But then again, that would undercut your argument.

Correct any errors, but doesn't NAMBLA (and others in the march) have to
get some kind of approval from the march organizers? Or, who decided the
Perot supports couldn't march, even though other clearly political
organizations were let in?
-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

The continuing discussion in alt.ketchup is really disgusting. All proper
right thinking volitional entities *know* ketchup is always served cold.
Exceptions for battlefield dining could be made if you must ...

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Help for California Libraries! Dire Need!
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:42:37 GMT
            <4497@bacon.IMSI.COM>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <4497@bacon.IMSI.COM>
 by jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes):

: The Chipmunk <asylvain@fritz.filenet.com> writes:
:
:	 Instead of paying road taxes, we simply have the users of the
:	 road pay for it.
:
: "Instead" ...?  Don't you mean "in addition" ...?

No.  *_Instead_* is the selected word.

Ie, *_instead_* of *_everybody_* paying *_general_* taxes, some of which 
are applied to the creation and maintenance of roads, *_only_* the *_users_* 
of the roads pay *_user_fees_* for the roads *_they_use._*

:	 But the point is, the trucking companies pay for their share of
:	 the road, not some poor sap with no car.
:
: Don't you think that truck *already* pay their fair share (in fact,
: they probably pay more than their share for the usage they get)?  Your
: average tractor-trailer pays about $5k annually in road use taxes and
: fees.

Perhaps.  But I'm not going to get into a debate on the definition of 
"fair share," tho.

Consider that they're paying for roads all over the nation, 99% of which
they don't use.  Consider that many of these roads were put in place for
political favors, rather than for any real practical need.  Consider
that a significant fraction of the taxes paid goes into the burocratic
"black hole" of civil servant salaries, who can *_not_* be fired
(easily) whether they are working or not, and even when they *_are_* 
working, *_much_* of their work is mere "paper pushing."

Now, consider how much a trucker would pay if s/he paid only for the
roads s/he travels over.  No more paying for roads that lead nowhere,
no more paying for political pork roads, no more paying for unfireable 
govt burocracy.

Would it be the same?  Less?  More?

: The big problem with these "deal with everything with user fees" is
: that you grow this enormous body of people taking a nickel here and a
: dime here, and pretty soon the amount of net capital left (after paying
: for the money collectors) is *less* than what gets done with the
: present tax system, bad as it is.

I disagree.  In fact, I'm more inclined to believe that the "nickle and
dime" effect is more pronounced with taxes.  After all, there are ways
of getting around middle-men when dealing with private industry.  The 
govt is an non-circumventable middle-man (unless you LIKE jail).

"Well, shee-it, man, yer already paying all these OTHER taxes, what's
another nickle a gallon fer gasoline?"  "Well, go-o-olly, sarge, you're
already paying all these OTHER taxes, what's another 1/2% sales tax?"
"Well, hey, dude, you're already paying WAY all these OTHER taxes, like,
what's another point on your property tax?"

"And, it's for a REALLY good CAUSE, man!  We're gonna like, totally save
the kangaroo rat."

:/ jordan

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Don't believe everything you hear or anything you say.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:48:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.215744.19008@morrow.stanford.edu>, June Genis 
writes:

>I think it's appropriate to require someone to have been a resident
>of a country for some period (I'm willing to negotiate the length of
>the period) before giving them a right to vote.  People should have
>some stake in the country either by virtue of family roots or
>financial investment to have a legal voice in shaping it's future.

Well, at the moment, I'm not sure how long it takes to become a 
citizen of the U.S., although I'm sure someone will enlighten us 
all within a day or two of this post...But in any event, it does take
some time to gain the right to vote. If you're born here, it takes
18 years. ;^) But I  agree, a time requirement to become acclimated
makes sense. 

The only thing above that strikes a question in my mind is the bit
about "financial investment" - I assume that you're not proposing 
that rich people should be able to switch their bank accounts over
or buy a business and thereby get citizenship preference or an
earlier right to vote? 

Of course, the idea of giving each person the same number of votes for
President as the dollars they pay in income tax has good daydream 
value. Boy howdy, if you wanted to see a candidate kiss up to the 
middle class! 

JZ
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:55:02 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs

In article <19038@fritz.filenet.com>, The Chipmunk writes:
>I disagree.  One of the big beefs about immigrants, legal AND illegal,
>is that they come over, make babies, then get on welfare.  Plus, when
>they get sick, hospital emergency rooms are required to treat them,
>whether or not they have the ability to pay.  There are also other
>entitlement programs they become eligible for, despite failure to show
>green cards.

But under June's system, none of that would be the case. 

>I'm not making any judgements on your opinion here, or the merits or
>lack thereof in June's position or the current system: I'm just making 
>a correction to your statement.

I can dig that. But again, it's not *just* that one policy that would change...

>(I'm sure June can state her position a hell of a lot better than I can
>anyway!)

June can state things better than most all of us here....that's why she runs for office... ;^) 

JZ
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: ca.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: No jobs in low-income neighborhoods?
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:08:46 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

The most common argument as to why so few people work in black low-`
income neighborhoods is that there aren't any jobs in the community.
This is also the #1 reason given for burning out the Koreans because
they won't hire blacks allegedly. But this is a total non-issue. 

A new survey shows that the average commute time in Silicon Valley is
about 25 minutes. It think it's about 40 minutes in Los Angleles.

Fact is, almost nobody works in the same place where they live, and
jobs in local stores provide almost no jobs. East Palo Alto and South
Central LA are well within commuting distance of some of the bigggest
job centers in the US. People with jobs can afford cars. Marin city
is a hop on the bus over the bridge from San Francisco. Most people in
Marin County commute, they don't work where they live. That's what
suburbs are for.

Koreans set up business in all sorts of communities, Asian, Hispanic,
white, and mixed, not just black. Only black neighborhoods are trying
to drive them out. It's not because Koreans are inherently rude. It's
because the poor don't have jobs, and the other neighborhoods don't mind,
and don't subject store owners to high rates of theft and murder.


Black activists call whites racist for pulling out of their communities,
and then they try to drive out the Koreans for "not showing proper
respect". 

At this rate, I would recommend that that Koreans follow the lead of 
whites and pull the hell out while they still can. Why should anybody
invest in low-income Afrimerican neighborhoods? When I travel, I'll
stop off anywhere to pick up a burger or donut. I've even stopped off at
a black-owned donut shop in Dorchester, and have known Asian friends who
patronized a black-owned bridal shop. Now why should I not think like
whites who see black neighborhoods as if there were a big "KEEP OUT"
sign at the front of the neighborhood?

If they want white or Asian investment, some people are going to have to
change their approach towards business and outsiders. We don't drive out
our 7-11 owners or the owner of the local macDonalds just because he's
not white, or lives on the other side of town. This is crazy to drive out
the very business that is vital to a living neighborhood.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:22:12 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <nk9gsb0@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> In article <11359@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #I'm told that happened; I would be more impressed if the Gay Perotistas
# #hadn't been excluded, but NAMBLA had been.
# 
# The gay perotistas (good term) were excluded by the city, not by the

Thanks, but I didn't come up with it.

# parade committee.  It seems they invoked a clause concerning parades that
# had never been used before.
# 
# FWA

That's not what the news coverage indicated.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:5964 soc.culture.asian.american:7028 soc.culture.african.american:8233