HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:01:48 GMT

In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
|> Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him
|> for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos
|> of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to
|> visit.
|> 
|> Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some
|> of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's
|> simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger!  :-)
Tastes differ.  I have always found VD's stuff both boring and bogus.
REAL mysteries and archeology are much more interesting than VD's stuff,
as is REAL science fiction.  Unfortunately, his readers may never discover 
that fact.

Anyway, I despise liars, and as I grow older I find it more and
more difficult to "chill out" about blatant and insincere dishonesty.

|> One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during
|> the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in
|> the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs
|> and/or reptiles.
|> 
|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock,
|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown")
|> to be the tracks of a military jeep.  Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot
|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads.  Tracks which were made millions of years
|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought
|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled.  [ See below ]
Incredible is the word.  This would be a lot harder to understand if I
hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which 
this little joke was taken.

Is there a correlation between reading science fiction and finding
VD and Forteans boring?  Maybe a cultivated Sense of Wonder raises
the level of Wonder you need to feel excited.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4946 sci.skeptic:13431
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Abductions (was: Men In Black)
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:33:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes:
>
>So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees"
>regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? I was
>just complaining to a co-worker this morning that is about half way through
>Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders", as I am, that there is no middle ground in this
>subject called UFO/UFO abductions/Alien Visitors. Scientific men completely
>deny any existence but so many people swear its happen(ing)(ed). I am on the

No doubt these people do indeed *claim* such experiences. But just because
somebody *claims* something happened doesn't mean that it did, and
sincerity is irrelevant to whether the claim is true or not; all it
means is that the person *believes* it's true. And anybody can hallucinate.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:08:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I don't think so Joe.  I'll have to admit sometimes not knowing 
about a particular problem and not doing anything about it can 
often be a good method of keeping you out of trouble.
John Winston.
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:07:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Mike: Please let me put my two cents worth in here. In my humble
opinion I think that John Keel has put out a lot of very good information
but now that he is writing for Fate magazine it appears that his 
attitude towards some subjects seem to be one of disbelief in quite a 
few different subjects. It appears that sometimes a person will back 
off a litte just to stay alive.  Obtaining information about people 
who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person
who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not 
very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the 
experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue
to talk about it you wake up dead.  John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren)
Subject: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Reply-To: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:51:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:

[...]
>However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
>The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
[...]

 as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds
less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not
predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary
mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no
theory tells us...





---------------+--------------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my own,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll
Keywords: Get a clue numb----.
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:04:22 GMT
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems

In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>
>The choices are:
>
no [X] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of
your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen.






--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Subject: John_Winston-Complete incineration
Reply-To: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:52:32 GMT


>From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com

>who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person
>who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not 
>very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the 
>experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue
>to talk about it you wake up dead.  John Winston.



               Hey John, just how does one "wake up dead"....
               Was your brain abducted sometime back?
               Maybe someone, something will trip while
               treading upon the surface of Uranus and look
               down and say "look doesn't that appear to be a brain
               or what used to be one!!"

               Look if you keep posting this ridiculous garbage
               you're just going to have to endure the heat.....

               May the toast be with you John......
           


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
From: opus@pioneer.unm.edu (Colby Kraybill)
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 11:59:17 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility
Keywords: phobos

In article <Z464FQG@zelator.in-berlin.de> leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I have posted the much discussed UFO-pic from the phobos 2 probe into
>
>alt.binaries.pictures.misc     and   alt.alien.visitors   newsgroups !
>

I am posting a follow up image to this "UFO-pic" that I think many people might
find to be interesting.  The image is in gif format and will be posted to
the same two groups mentioned above.


-- 
Colby Kraybill
Space and Planetary Image Facility
University of New Mexico
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien Film
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:57:55 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

A couple of weeks ago here in Auckland NZ they had a film festival & 
1 of the films was a 50 minute USA film entitled something like    
TRIBULATION 99 ALIEN ......UNDER AMERICA-

Has anyone seen this or even has any more info on it?.How about a review/ 
critique etc?.

*************************************************    
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY 
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
************************************************
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Extraterrestrials honored
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 11:39:18 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

This item on page D5 of the Wednesday, July 29, 1992, San Francisco Chronicle,
in "The Column of Lists" article by David Wallenchinksy and Amy Wallace:

``                    EXTRATERRESTRIALS HONORED

In February 1992 Scotland unveiled what may be the world's first monument
to a UFO.  A plaque in West Lothian commemorates a forestry worker's 1979
sighting of a 30-foot-wide spaceship that hovered over him and ripped off
his clothes.
''


"Ripped-off" as in "stolen" or "stripped him starkers"?  "spaceship" or
"aerial jellyfish with tentacles"?

Nothing like complete, accurate and total reporting.  :-)

What ever happened to the "Who, What, When, Where, Why and How" of reporting?

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ET Info Request
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:08:11 GMT

My connection to the Usenet is shut down as usual.  This is here via Email.
If there are any articles here regarding Plieadians, Hatton, or Ashtar or Greys
etc ... would someone be so kind to Email them to me??????

Big Thanks,
len

lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Keywords: zeta reticuli?
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:41:02 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <mBoaoB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com> aaron@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
>I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this 
>group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli.  She said that she heard that star 
>system 
>had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones.  Could some 
>one fill me in?  

What exactly do you mean by recently?  Did it occur recently, i.e. less
than forty years.  Or was it observed hear recently?  If enough time has
elapsed for the light of the SN to arrive here then we would have seen it.
A SN that close would be at least as bright as the full moon.  If it
occurred less than 40 years ago there is no classical way for us to have
knowledge of the event.  So, unequivicolly, if the SN occurred 40 to
say 1000 years ago we would know about it (the earliest records of SN
date from 1006 if memory serves.)  If it occurred 0 to 40 years ago 
who knows.  Earlier than 1000 years ago is not what on a human timescale
I would call recent so...

>I'd also have to wonder about propulsion from there, since
>it is about 40 light years from us, since (according to my calculations, 
>correct me if I'm wrong, but all flames to /dev/null) 
>234,627,900,000,000miles 
>away from earth. I understand that you would have to travel awful fast to get 
>here in a commuter fashion, but from what some people have told me, 
>it takes a 
>pleidian ship 14 minutes to get here from there(don't quote me on this), if 

This comes out to sometning like 1,502,000 times the speed of light, quiet
a mover of a ship.  Makes the _Bistromath_ look like a blimp.

>that was true wouldn't the theory of folding space, wormholes, or hyperspace 
>be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can 
>go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with 
>normal rocket accelleration.
> 
>And what about all of this columbus day 1992 thing?  anybody got any proof, 
>?
I don't know, but when you find out ell me.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Aaron Anderer, System Operator                aaron@spectrx.saigon.com
>SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005              szebra!spectrx!aaron          
>
Ithlial

cary@ursaminor.unm.edu

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4924 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1946
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
From: hoyt@isus.UUCP (Hoyt A. Stearns jr.)
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:12:52 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Organization: International Society of Unified Science
Keywords: superluminal
Summary: Followup

In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
>to bring up tachyons.
>Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of
>light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light
>from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of
>energy would be necessary).
>However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
>The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
>One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are
>singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to
>velocities<c.
>Of course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses....

If for no other reasons than aesthetics and symmetry, it seems reasonable to
assume that the universe is symmetric about the speed of light--half of the
total number of non-massless particles are >c (anti-particles).

The Reciprocal System concludes this.  The >c particles gravitate in time
instead of space, so appear isotropic and uniformly distributed to us,
and make their appearance only as cosmic rays, and then only when slowed
down from >c to exactly c, usually as a result of a of a >c star
going supernova.

-- 
Hoyt A. Stearns jr.|hoyt@          | International Society of Unified Science|
4131 E. Cannon Dr. |isus.tnet.com  | Advancing Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal  |
Phoenix, AZ. 85028 |ncar!enuucp!   | System- a unified physical theory.      |
voice_602_996_1717 telesys!isus!hoyt The Universe in two postulates!_________|
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:34:27 GMT
Summary: ufo vs ice chunk - flash, it moved

In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes:
> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.
> 
I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it).

It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just
prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the
direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing).
The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated
as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything.

Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of
the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-)
I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes.

barry--
From: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Why America ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:46:10 GMT
Reply-To: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there

	Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?

Think about it logically,

	1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote.

	2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily..

	3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ?

	4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !)

Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ??

But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it !

Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ?

Cheers

Tony        
achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk    
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 05:56:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
>        (Sheaffer writes:)
> > Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about
> > everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he
> > would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????".
> >
> > James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today,
> > was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to
> > have
> > been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the
> > whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles
> > and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!"
>
>What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB 
>stuff?

When I met John Keel, he was sitting at the lunch-counter of a hotel
coffee shop, chatting amicably with Mr. Amazing Randi. The two are old
friends from 'way back. I joined them, and got the distinct impression
that all three of us agreed that UFOs are one big joke.

If you find that hard to believe, read Keel's article "The Man Who Invented
Flying Saucers" (The Story of Ray Palmer) in "The Fringes of Reason - A
Whole Earth Catalog." There is *no* way an article like that could be
written by anyone who took UFOs the least bit seriously. If there were
no author's name given, you'd swear it had to be written by Menzel or
Klass.

When I met the late Gray Barker, he admitted quite directly that
he didn't believe a word of the stuff he was writing.


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Roswell Museum (UFO Engima)
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:38:17 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

Wes,

Thanks for the info on the Roswell museum.  I'll check it out next year on my
way to L.A.

                                                Joseph A. Citro III
                                                
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4922 talk.bizarre:23889
From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:27:02 GMT
Followup-To: talk.bizarre
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <62936@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks
> to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical
> of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that
> are very close together and usually on either side of these circles,
> these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways
> for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3.
> John Winston.

Anyone know what all this rubbish is about? Answers on a postcard please.

Jason
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ships to India or Pakistan
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:24:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

In article <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de>
jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) writes:

| Peter and Mario want to travel to India. 
| 
| Who knows from which European harbors are going ships
| to India or Pakistan?
| 
| Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible.
| 
| Thank you!!!
| 
| 
| Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-)

Do "Grays" carry green cards?  Have visas?  :-)

Anyone still believe "alt.alien.visitors" shouldn't be renamed, please raise
your hand.  "alt.ufos.*" would reduce some of the non-pertinent traffic that
appears in this newsgroup, but I'm not saying that's the best choice for a
new name.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Truth About.........
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:14:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Mike: I saw your statement about the tape and it interested me.
If it's OK with your I'd like to give you my opinion about the person
that put out the tape (Brad Stieger). I have read his books for 
more than 15 years and they are all very good. He wrote Star Seed. I
believe the other one was Star People. I met  him last summer in a UFO
club convention and we talked for a while. His wife is a very beautiful
person and I do believe that she can channel some very nice entities 
from the spirtual world and the space people.  So you've got a good tape
although I have not seen it myself I am aware of the information he puts
out. He is also written up quite often in the tabloid magazines. John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors