HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:21:12 GMT

In article <133866@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>,
dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.001343.24761@sequent.com>, karlm@sequent.com (Karl
>Maerz) writes:
>|> I hear complaints about horse crap (all from this newsgroup).  Its true,
>|> horses are real good at producing dung, but you guys sound like someone
>|> had spread a pit toilet on the trail.  What a bunch of horseshit (heh heh,
>|> sorry, couldn't help it).  Horses eat grass and/or hay and perhaps grain
>|> and maybe some feed supplements.  They poop little balls which pile if
>|> they're standing still and string out if they're walking.  It does have
>|> an initial odor which is not excessively unpleasant to many people.  If it
>|> is strung out on a warm sunny day it will completely dry out in a few
>|> hours.  When dry, it has virtually no odor at all and the consistency of
>|> finely chopped hay or grass (which makes sense, since that's what it is).
>|> The bottom line is, the stuff is not the noxious, stinking, disgusting
>|> substance you make it out to be.
>
>Your comments are well taken, but one might point out that you (on a horse)
>don't have to walk through it.  My problem is not with the odor but with
>the clouds of horseflys that linger around fresh horse dung.  The dung does
>does help keep dust down on the trail, but a group of horses going down
>a dry trail usually raises a cloud of dust.  In short, no matter how
>tolerable the smell of horse shit is, I would rather smell the woods.
>Which is why I usually avoid trails where horses are permitted.
>
>I think Wayne's argument was not about aesthetics but was that horses make
>the wilderness smaller: they allow people to get between two points more
>easily and carrying more equipment than they would otherwise.
>
>|> Try taking a whiff of horse crap as versus
>|> human or other meat-eater crap and believe me you'll prefer the horse doo.
>
>Agreed.  But humans rarely shit on the trail.
>
A more serious consideration is trail impact.  I have never seen a
humans only trail that wears a rut into the ground up to my thighs.
 Yet these are standard on the Seurra pack trails.  Secondly, people
don't (usually) graze the vegatation at campsites.  I know packer
are supossed to bring fodder for the animals so that this does not
occur and while I'm sur the commercial outfits who have to protect
their licence are very good about this, I've seen private parties
violating this rule.
From: andyt@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Andy Teetzel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:43:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Moose vs. Elk
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry




"What it is, nobody knows. But men call it...moose" [or whatever]


    I believe Cactus Ed said that.



Andy Teetzel           |  andyt@hpmwmkt2.HP.COM     | "You cannot argue        
Hewlett-Packard        |                            |  with illogic"  
Microwave Tech. Div.   |  -Disclaimer, standard,    |    - I said that
Santa Rosa, CA         |   one each                 | "I said that" 
                       |                            |    - Bob Dylan
From: sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com (Don Sawtelle)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: light weight coffee makers
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:10:08 GMT
Reply-To: sawtelle@stonecutter.com
Organization: Stonecutter Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Aug14.194320.11003@spdc.ti.com> (rec.backcountry), burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris) writes:
> Filtered coffee, if anything,
> >would increase your cancer risk, because of dioxin residues
> >in the bleached filters.  I have never seen unbleached
> >filters for sale in this country.
> >
> >The health effects are very small for even boiled coffee.  It's
> >not something for backpacking vegetarians to worry about.
> 
>    Probably so. BTW, I have seen and used two different brands of non-bleached
> coffee filters. Can't think of their names, though.

Many coffee shops sell a one-cup gold filter (a plastic thing about the
size of a cup with a gold filter built into the bottom). Mine came in
three pieces--filter, top, snap-on rim to support the filter over a
mug--but you only need to take the filter part out on walks. I get best
results by steeping the coffee first and then just pouring through the
filter to get the grounds out. Gold filters seem to let more
particulates through than paper so you might want to grind your beans
coarsely if you want to avoid coffee that's completely opaque... [the
best kind :-)]

---
Don Sawtelle:Stonecutter Software:Mariposa, CA
sawtelle@stonecutter.com
From: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Yosemite, Kings Canyon 3 day circuits
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:38:43 GMT
Reply-To: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

I got some cheap fares out to LA and will be leaving Thursday (8/20)
with my wife to see Yosemite, Kings Canyon and Sequioa (sp?).  We
would like to get back-country passes and have time for a couple of
3-day circuits.  I've been to Yosemite (many years ago) but not to
either of the other parks.

How hard will it be to get same-day passes at these places?  Are certain
entrances more likely than others?  We are planning to enter Yosemite
from the west and the other parks from the east.  If we fail to get
the passes on a certain day will we be able to find a tent space somewhere
else?

I'm also looking for recommendations for (about) 3 day circuits in any
of the above parks.  I've got the contour maps (although larger than
7.5') and some books.  We can probably do about 10 miles/day if the
terrain is not outrageously difficult.  I remember climbing Cathedral
Peak on a previous trip and might like to do that again.  We would like
to avoid the crowds wherever possible.

Please reply as soon as possible, either by posting or e-mail, since
I won't be able to log in after Wednesday.

Thanks,

David Mackintosh
From: jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:50:43 GMT
Subject: Re: When the bee stings.
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 > What do you all use for bee stings and other painfull insect bites?
 > Do these 'sticks' really work?  What about MSG?  We always carried
 > meat tenderizer on dive boats for jellyfish stings and I think it
 > was the MSG that took the pain out....some what.

and ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) replies:
> The pain is a histamine response.  Taking an oral antihistamine such
> as Benadryl (an allergy pill) works well (although it takes 15 minutes 
> or so to get into your system).  

The sticks ('StingKill' et al) seem to work fairly well. As a beekeeper, I keep
a stock of 'em to hand out to stung kids/friends/strangers as good bee PR. I 
rarely use them myself...the pain abates anyway in a few (about 15;-) minutes.

The pain is in response to the toxins (formic acid et el.). Subsequent swelling
is the allergic (histamine) response to the foreign proteins. Use a sting-kill
to relieve the pain (cold or hot water work too), use the benadryl or a 
cortisone cream to reduce subsequent itching/swelling. The swelling can last
up to three days. Severe swelling can be treated with prescription steroids
(prednisolone, etc.).  *Systemic* reactions are another matter entirely.

I have heard of using meat tenderizer (which contains MSG), never tried it. As
a bee injects the toxin much deeper than a jellyfish, I'd expect a non-
penetrating remedy to be of little use.

Bob (every part of my anatomy's been stung...*every* part) Miller
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I just read an article in the local paper about bites/stings.  I gathered
from it the meat tenderizer works to break down the toxin, but that
it's not MSG that does it, it's papaine (sp?) an enzyme derived from
papaya's.  This is the same stuff I use to clean protein build up
off my contact lenses.  I guess the enzyme breaks down the protein(s)
that cause the histamine response.


jaym
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-GK II
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:46:34 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 3070031@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com, bingham@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (David Bingham) writes:
>What is
>apparently an advantage in the Whisperlite isn't really the case. The
>weight saved is made up for by needing to bring the fuel bottle. Per-
>haps that's just a rationalization on my part. The thing that made the
>difference in my mind was the ease of lighting (no priming) and the
>much better flame control. 
>
>David Bingham
>bingham@sr.hp.com

Yes, it is damn near impossible to simmer with a Whisperlite, but as to the 
implication that you don't have to bring a fuel bottle for the Peak 1, how
long do you go out for?  I have found my Whisperlite to be much more dependable
and maintainence-free than the Peak 1 that broke down just before I scrapped it.

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes)
Subject: Re: Colorado reunion
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:25:58 GMT

	fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry) writes:
>I am looking more for a semi-backcountry place to hold a reunion in 
>Colorado next summer (August).

Can you describe "semi-backcountry" a little better?
-- 
Steve Carnes       carnes@ico.isc.com        uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!carnes
   "Rock gives reality to the otherwise abstract notion of transhuman
    time." - Edward Abbey
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:32:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug21.003208.23483
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
| Your comments are well taken, but one might point out that you (on a horse)
| don't have to walk through it [horse crap].  

This is true, though I am probably much more intimately familiar with
this substance than your average hiker... :)  I deal with it on a daily
basis.

| ...  In short, no matter how
| tolerable the smell of horse shit is, I would rather smell the woods.
| Which is why I usually avoid trails where horses are permitted.

Ah, I believe you have hit on something here that many others have missed.
At least in Oregon there are many trails that are already closed to
horses.  I would delicately suggest that those with a particularly
strong aversion to horses make use of these trails, when possible.
And when not, try to be a little more tolerant.

| I think Wayne's argument was not about aesthetics but was that horses make
| the wilderness smaller: they allow people to get between two points more
| easily and carrying more equipment than they would otherwise.

I must disagree.  This is indeed an aesthetic argument.  What difference
does it make if I can travel faster?  Your (and Wayne's) disapproval
is simply a matter of opinion and taste.  The same argument could be
applied to people at a ridiculous extreme.  Do you also have issue with
those who are hardier and can make better time on foot than the average
hiker?  Whether I can go point to point faster or slower than someone
else should have no bearing on that person's enjoyment of the backcountry.
*If* it makes the backcountry smaller for anyone (again, a matter of
opinion), it is for the person who's riding, not the person on foot.

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: privette@frodo.colorado.edu (Jeff Privette)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Organization: Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:43:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.102425.21674@hellgate.utah.edu>, allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

|> was when I was on may way up to do Half Dome.  Some hikers thought it
|> would be a good idea to hind their stuff in some bushes while they
|> hiked the rest of the way up the cables.  Well the bears agreed, as
|> they were shreading every item they found.

Must be the same "hiker" I saw.  On a recent drive down Skyline
Drive in Shenandoah, we came across about 5 cars stopped on the road.
Maybe 15- to 20 people were watching a mother black bear and her 3 cubs
forage on a hillside adjacent to the road -- the bears were not more than
40 yards away (although they were up a hill from the road/people).  As 
the camera shutters clicked away, one guy was bound and determined to
get his $5 entrance fee's worth.  Impressing us all with his athletic
prowess, he firmly grasped his instamatic camera, jumped the ditch, and
started making his way up the hill, through the woods, and toward the bears.

As I stood there pondering whether I would have the least bit of sympathy
for this guy if the mother turned on him (isn't that what Darwin would have
called "evolution": the dying of the weaker or downright stupid members of
a species), the bears hustled away from the area.  Not only had the jerk
violated every park rule in the books, risked his life, etc., etc., he
ruined what had been a great surprise.  Incredible.




Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:54:47 GMT

I see people taking dogs all the time in national parks and to the backcountry,
so this regulation must be little enforced.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Jan Blair <janbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: When the bee stings.
Organization: NTI
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:48:25 GMT

In article <equacken.713020595@cser> Eric Quackenbush,
equacken@cser.encore.com writes:
>What do you all use for bee stings and other painfull insect bites?

The reply regarding the histamine response is correct.  Benedryl should
be a part of your kit, but for general pain and itchiness, try Sting
Stop.  This homeopathic gel is available in health food/Earth stores. 
Old time remedies include chewing tobacco, ammonia, and urine.  Somehow
the Benedryl doesn't sound so bad now, huh?
From: walden@misty.boeing.com (Bill Walden)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Re: When the bee stings.
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:22:31 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support


Gang,

Ken writes:
>In article <equacken.713020595@cser> equacken@cser.encore.com (Eric  
>Quackenbush) writes:
>> What do you all use for bee stings and other painfull insect bites?
>
>I take a few ammonia inhalants in my first aid kit. Squeeze the tube
>to break the inner container of ammonia and the outside of the tube
>becomes damp. Swab this on the sting and voila, poison is neutralized.
>
>--
>Ken Fortenberry                            | Internet: kenf@uiuc.edu
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | BITNET: KENF@UIUCVMD.BITNET
>Computing & Communications Services Office | UUCP: uunet!uiuc.edu!kenf 
>1304 W. Springfield Ave.  Urbana, IL 61801 | Phone: (217) 244-3215
>----------
Not meaning to be politically incorrect (right!) - but I've had good success
using the evil *tobacco* on bee/wasp/etc stings. Just wet the stuff and
hold it against the sting with a bandage or some tape. A can of "Copenhagen"
would do well for this purpose - as it has a limited shelf life and gets 
tossed in the trash if not bought.

Dislaimers: "Copenhagen" is a trademark of U.S. Tobacco, and is used for
	       illustrative purposes only.
            I don't use the stuff (now), and really don't want to discuss the 
               morality/immorality of tobacco or why I should be more 
               politically correct.
Fair enough? (And no flames for my disclaimers - you just never know when a
              lawyer might be lurking :) :(   )

                   Just my 2.0 x 10E-2 dollars worth,

                         Bill

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%  Boeing Computer Services     %         wbw@carter.ca.boeing.com  %
%  Seattle, WA                  %     or  walden@misty.ca.boeing.com%
%  I do NOT speak for Boeing!   %     or  uunet!bcstec!misty!walden %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
		
	     of the tobacco industry or why I 
	
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
    <1992Aug21.175840.964@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 17:48:44 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Aug21.175840.964@eos.arc.nasa.gov> dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:
>
>>We went to RMNP and they did not allow dogs in the backcountry!!!
>
>Horses, llamas, goats, bikes and now dogs. Where are the cat defenders!
>Your subject header was "no dogs in National Parks". Isn't there at
>least a few places that we can consider exempt from man's
>entourage of domesticated beasts (bikes being the exception).
>With all the National Forest Land you shouldn't be too hard press
>to find someplace to pack with your dog. You could probably take
>a cow into the National Forest if you wanted.

...or play with the ones already there.
From: french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Canoeing Cochrane-Moosenee INFO WANTED
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:06:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: yetti.1394
Distribution: world
Organization: York University, Dept. of Comp. Sci. - Toronto


   I was wondering if anyone out there has done a canoe trip from Cochrane, Ont.
to Moosenee, Ont.  I hear you can take the Little Bear train back to Cochrane.
If anyone has done this or has done a trip in that area, please e-mail me or pos
t.
How's the route, any large portages?  Can I take my canoe on the train or is it
easier to rent from an outfitter? Know any outfitters in Cochrane?? Thanks for
your help bc'ers.
                                          - Lori


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892)
Subject: Re: Mammoth area hot springs?
Organization: NASA GSFC CDP VLBI
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:01:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.151911.29380@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.182652.3453@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Rich Washington) writes:
>>
>
>
>I don't mean to flame Rich for this case; after all, he did try, by
>restricting distribution to California (or at least trying), where the term
>"Mammoth" is less ambiguous.  However, the current Usenet software seems to
>be ignoring distribution limits; we in New Mexico, which assuredly is not part
>of California :-), seem to get all sorts of postings that we shouldn't get if
>the distribution system works properly.  The right solution is clearly to get

For that matter, it even made it out to Maryland, USA.
From: Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:51 PDT
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug12.223747.2729@odin.corp.:306611889:cdp:1449600019:000:258
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 13 17:51:00 1992


Boiling coffee? Horrors!

I bring the water to a boil, remove it from heat, put in the grounds, and
let it steep.  A bit of cold water dribbled in will help it to settle.

Boiling the grounds changes the flavor and makes the brew harder on your 
gut.

chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking Gear
From: Aron Eisenpress <AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 10:21:56 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

A good book (if you want one) is _The_Essential_Guide_to_Hiking_in_the_United_
States_, by Charles Cook, published by Michael Kesend (New York), 1992, ISBN
0-935576-41-X.  It's in paperback and is also available from Quality Paperback
Book Club.  It's got a very good section on "Hiking Essentials" and then covers
places to hike, state-by-state, including hiking guidebooks, trails, hiking
clubs, contact information for major trails and hiking areas, and addresses
of places to get maps.

I should mention that Charlie is the leader of the hiking group I began
with, and he's an excellent guide and nice person, and I don't get any
commission for this mention.
-------

 -- Aron Eisenpress, City U of NY
    (AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET, or AFECU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU on the Internet)
From: millard@acsu.buffalo.edu (Peter G. Millard)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:38:25 GMT
Organization: UB

jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:

>In article <CLINDH.92Aug19080513@marilyn.abalon.se>, clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh) writes:

>> Has anyone out there used the new Coleman "Whisperlite lookalike"
>> (forgot the name), that has a separate fuel reservoir/bottle just like
>> the MSR's?  Looks good and all that, but what's the verdict?

>The Apex is more like a dismembered Peak-1 Multi-fuel.  Performance
>and total weight of ALL the components is about the same as for the
>Multi-fuel.  It's not as compact as the Whisperlites.  It doesn't
>officially burn kerosene, though it looks like the generator from the
>Multi-fuel would fit perfectly.

>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
>Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 

I was wondering what the deal is with these...as we started to sell them
where I work, but our company generated a recall for them (said they were
defective I think). However, I never saw anything official from Coleman.

One difference I noted about the apex is that they are not as compact since
the fuel line stays attached to the pump mechanism...not to the stove. Seemed
a little more bulky to me.
-- 
******************************************************************************
	Peter G. Millard  *  INTERNET: v057n5um@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu           
 	SUNY @ Buffalo    *          : millard@acsu.buffalo.edu
*****************************************************************************
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose vs Elk
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:48:20 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.



In article <1992Aug18.090819.16139@bernina.ethz.ch> you write:
> Big question here!  What is the difference between a moose & an elk?
> 
> Is there a difference?  I thought that moose were expanded versions of elk,
> 
> but someone found a dictionary saying moose:  common name for elk.
> 
> What's the deal here?
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Eric Maniloff						eman@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch
> Physical Chemistry Laboratory				tel: 41 1 256 44 40
> ETH-Zentrum, Zurich					fax: 41 1 252 34 02
> 
> 


Actually the dictionary is correct, a moose is really an elk.  The elk we have in the the US is
really a "wapiti" and in Europe, the elk is really a moose.   Now that you are thourghly 
confused, here is a handy quick reference...


in the US...


moose = moose, (but technically an elk) ( very seldom do you hear a moose called an elk, though)
elk = wapiti
deer = deer


in Europe...

elk = moose
deer = deer
(I  dont think have wapiti in the wild)


Although the meat of both is very tasty, I prefer moose. (the US one)

Tom


--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com