HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ih@huey.udel.edu (Charlie Ih)
Subject: Re: Shipping a Brick! (was: More Mail Order Complaints)
Followup-To: rec.windsurfing
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:47:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.043932.6319@a.cs.okstate.edu> hip@a.cs.okstate.edu (HUFFMAN BRADLEY SP) writes:
>For those of you just joining this thread, it all started when Windsurfing
>Express charged me $10.90 to ship 2 fins and then insisted they were
>considered large items and that shipping costs have increased.
 >
 >.........

Thanks for the information.  I guess we have to figure the Shipping &
Handling is part of the total cost.  When shopping locally, the sales
tax and car travel ($.25 - $.30 per mile) are part of the total cost.
I believe a fair S & H cost should be actual shipping cost plus handling.
If the clerk is paid $10 per hour, the handling should be $2.00 to $2.50.
No question, W. X. over charges the S & H.
From: chaimson@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Stewart Chaimson)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Ronny Drysuits question
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:40:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA

I'm on my second Ronny in 4 years(just bought a rollover for $180) and I would
recommend them. I sail in 60 degree water and I love not getting that cold
rush of water down my back that you tend to get with a regular wet suit.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: Mast Foot Problems
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:47:24 GMT

In article <price.712329548@helios> price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price) writes:
>erno@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Erno H. Klaassen) writes:
>
>
>> 
>>When I was surfing this weekend at Coyote,  I had some trouble with 
>>the mast foot on my Bic Astro Rock.  The little tab that keeps the peg
>>of the mast base in the mast foot keeps coming up, so that my whole
>>mast separated from the board several times.  Is anybody else having
>
[stuff deleted]

>Yes, I've also had this problem with my Astro Rock, and a friend has had the
>same with his Presto. The only solution I know of is to actually use the place
>on the bow of the board along with a short tether, and tie the 2 together so
>that when they part company, you won't loose the mast/sail.
>
>Perhaps Felix will insert some comments about how to fix the mechanism so that
>it will not come apart?

Ok Chad I'll bite :-) I too had similar problems. Except, for me the plastic lip
beneath the tab broke. In this case you need to use a plier or something to
pull the metal locking pin out in order to pull your mast foot out. I had no
problems with my other mast feet since replacing it. 

I never had the lip pop up unless I kicked it up with my foot by mistake. 
Could that be what is hapenning to you? If so, the solution is to make sure 
your mast foot is turned so that the lip on the base is facing towards the bow.
This way you minimize the chance of kicking it open. 

If in fact it slips open by itself you can return it to your dealer as 
defective. BIC will warranty it if its within the period of your warranty. 
Remember, all components purchased with your board is included in the warranty.
Your dealer should honor it without question. If you have problems give me
a ring or email and I'll see what I can do (with no promises I just know a good
REP).


-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Good Board for Beginner?
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:08:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.164121.8334@ctr.columbia.edu>
root@scottf.csuohio.edu (Scott Finet) writes:
 
>Advice needed:
>
>What board(s) are ideal for beginners?
>
>What are good board/suit/equipment sources in the upper midwest (if there
>are any)?
>
>Does the sailer's weight make a difference?  I weight approx. 230 lbs.,
>but my weight is proportional to my height.
 
While others may disagree, I would recommend starting on a longboard; the
bigger the better given your weight.  The bigger the board, the more you can
walk around on it without falling off; to me, this was important until I
developed enough skill to stay on a smaller board in light winds, or to even
sail in heavier winds (where increased hull speed seems to add stability.)
 
I started a few years back on an OBrien Sensation.  Its made of polyethelene,
which makes it heavy (about 45 lbs), but almost indestructable (unfortunately
it is almost impossible to repair if you do damage it).  As a beginner, I fell
off a lot, and as often as not, the boom and/or mast would hit the board.  The
poly material can take it, whereas the fancy construction of my course boards
will not.   Also, I started sailing on a small lake (6 acres) right behind my
house and would forever be running into the shore before I learned to turn;
not the sort of thing I would do to a fragile board.
 
The OBrien is also very forgiving.  It is by far the easiest handling of all
my boards under light wind conditions; my course boards will go faster, and all
my other boards handle higher wind/rougher water better.  But, I still go back
to the OBrien when I just want to fool around on the water and have an easy
time of it.
 
The OBrien is also relatively inexpensive.  My local sailboat shop still seems
to be selling the version I have for $500+tax: about the same as mail order
would cost once you add in shipping.  When I bought the board, the owner of
shop delivered it to me (I didn't have a car yet), and spent considerable time
showing me how to rig it, sail it etc.  He has also given me absolutely
flawless service, unlike my experience with mailorder firms; in short, yes
there is at least one good source in the upper midwest (more specifically,
east-central Illinois), and there may be one closer to you.
 
Before you buy that first board, be warned:  windsurfing is addictive.  (In
my case, 38 years without owning a car ended when I needed a means to get my
equipment to a "real" lake about 35 miles away.  Then, we traded up to a van
so that we had something big enough to carry all my windsurfing equipment.  My
wife claims to see an addition to the house and a semi-trailer on the horizon.)
 
Happy sailing.
 
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans          Those who can, teach;
                                     those who can't, don't;
eplus17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu             and too many who think they
or EPLUS17@UIUCVMD                   can teach neither can nor do.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall)
Subject: Re: Beaufort's Wind Scale
Reply-To: thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: na
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:08:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.034050.10019@ultb.isc.rit.edu> cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>
>Here is some info I found in the '92 Old Farmer's Almanac.  I don't think I've
>actually heard any weather forecasts using this scale but if I do, I'll make
>sure to wait for "force four" before getting my gear ready....
>

There's also another scale (I can't even remember where I saw it), that
cross-refernces Beaufort's scale to "observable phenomena".  i.e.

	3		small tree branches in motion
	4		large tree branches in motion
	5		...
	...
	8		large trees being uprooted and blown 
			down the street
	9		large houses being blown down the street
	10		typical Gorge day...

Anyone got a copy of it?



--
 +-----+ Trevor Hall                     "Frisbeetarianism: the belief
 |    #| Database Engineer                that when you die, your soul
 |     | Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.   goes up on the roof and gets
 +-----+ thall@sequent.com                stuck."
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: New Board Advice.....phase two.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:20:27 GMT

In article <price.711993624@helios> price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price) writes:
>felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral) writes:
>
>>On the other hand they will continue to make boards like the adagio, rock and
>>alto to satisfy the NOT so race oriented sailors. That is why they have two
>>or three boards with the same length and liter specs. Different handling
>>boards for different conditions. Either way I'm sure both of us will be
>>happy with the lineup which is BIC's marketing strategy.
>
>Which leads me to ask: what is the Astro Rock designed for? I have one, and I
>can see little difference between it and the Presto. The Presto looks like it
>might be a little easier to maintain a plane in a gybe since it has a thicker
>tail. 
>

		The Presto ('92) 		Astro Rock ('91)
		================		================

Length		9'2				9'4
Width		23"				24"
weight		19lbs				21lbs
liters		122				125
guts		Race Tec Honeycomb		Lite Tec epoxy comp
shape		slight double concave		quatro concave
fin		trim box			regular base


If you look close there are small differences which make them two totally
different boards. Ask any shaper about width. Even ONE inch can make a
difference in a boards capability. The fin system, the bottom shape as
well as the honeycomb material make the presto stiffer and hence
faster in reaches. Hope this helps!

-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
From: karl@ncrspks.SparksNV.NCR.COM (Karl Held)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: PVC Pipe
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:59:18 GMT
Reply-To: karl@ncrspks.SparksNV.NCR.COM (Karl Held)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Corporation, FESC 778 Sparks

Last weekend at Rio Vista I saw a "Gorge Tube"-like mast container which had a
cast metal endcap that would swivel open and also lock with a padlock. The
tube was supported on metal cast saddles which bolted to the top of the board
rack. I asked the driver where he got the caps and saddles, and he said that
any large industrial supply store carries them. Well, when I got back to the
desert here in Reno, NV I called the largest plumbing supply house in the
area, and they said they had never seen anything like it. Does anyone have an
address/phone number of a supplier of this product? Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing,alt.surfing
From: jeff@dsp.sps.mot.com (Jeff Enderwick)
Subject: Re: Ever hear of a wetsuit brand made by "GV"
Organization: Motorola DSP Compilers
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:13:35

Maybe its one of those triathalete wetsuits ?
From: ercc24@castle.ed.ac.uk (S.T.Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Windsurfing Hangover
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:25:41 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <4310439@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk
Lindstrom) wrote:
> 
>Does anyone else out there suffer from lethargy, dizzieness, and headaches the
>morning after a long days blasting?
> >
>I believe these are the symptoms that are usually associated with dehydration,
>hence the similarity to a hangover.

   Just give me a long day's blasting, and I'll worry about the
headache later. Here in Scotland, the weather is so changable (and the
forecasts are so unreliable!), you learn to make the most of today.

   It seems clear that there are many factors contributing to the
windsurf hangover. One which concerns me is skin porosity. Under normal
circumstances, the skin can transfer gasses such as oxygen and carbon
dioxide, and others too. Exposure to cold water produces a waterproof
layer, and a build up of fat under the skin. For a seal or a dolphin
this is fine, as it improves insulation, and gas transfer is not a
problem when you are immersed in water.

   As should be obvious, this is a pet theory of mine, and we are all
different, so it may not concern you. I would be interested to hear
from anyone who thinks this might be important!

! Stephen Hayes, Edinburgh University Computing Service.
! S.T.Hayes @ edinburgh.ac.uk, Tel: 031-650 4990.
From: markn@assisi.orc.olivetti.com (Mark Nass)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Broken Downhauls
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:08:41 GMT
Reply-To: markn@assisi.orc.olivetti.com (Mark Nass)
Organization: Olivetti Research California

In article <1992Jul17.180958.20810@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
edwilson@leland.Stanford.EDU (Edward Wilson) writes:
> I've been having some problems downhauling my new sails, 1992 WindWing 
> Slalom Comp's.
> 
> 
> SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM:  I keep breaking stuff due to the downhaul required
> 
> Has anyone else had so much trouble breaking downhauls? 
> 
> Any clever solutions - Carbon/Kevlar downhaul lines for $10/foot perhaps?
> 

  I bought a new 92 Waddell Mono-Slalom sail and the first thing I did
when downhauling
it was to break my downhaul line. I never did get enough downhaul on the
sail that day either.
After reading the instructions I found a new way of rigging that allowed
me to get more down haul.
   What Waddell recomded was to mut the mast in the mast sleeve and just
connect the downhaul line and
take out the slack in the line.. Then connect the boom and outhaul the
sail very flat, about as flat 
as you can get it. Make sure that you cambered battens are not
tensioned, by over flattening
the sail with the outhaul line this pulls the cambers away from the mast
and prebends the mast.
   Then go back to the downhaul lineand finish tightening it, you should
be able to get more this way.
Then back off the outhaul to where you want to sail it and tension the battens.
   I use a chinook mast base that uses the little chinook screw on pulleys.

Mark Nass


Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: gboates@admin.acadiau.ca (GARY BOATES)
Subject: Re: Ronny Drysuits question
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:24:53 GMT



	JUST SAY "NO" TO RONNY DRYSUITS! 

		(the sport is fraught with enough problems...)
From: ktc@onan.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Phasers, ...
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:32:10 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

Marcaj (The Aerohydronamics of Sailing) spends some time on the dimple  
business. The role that they play in golf balls is to induce turbulent flow  
early, and hence maintain (turbulently) attached flow longer (than laminar flow  
would stay attached), and finally thus reduce form drag (turbulent wake) to a  
minimum. In one sentence, the turbulent wake of a dimpled golf ball is smaller  
than a smooth one. By the way, this is the same reason that you wet sand your  
fins w/ 600 grit rather than polishing them w/ 1600 grit...except in this case  
turbulent attached flow means later (less) stall (spinout).

I don't sail a golf ball. The flow at the tail of any of my boards is turbulent  
(probably the last 1/3 of the board) without dimples, turbulent wake isn't a  
problem at powered-up speeds, and I don't see how dimples would reduce the  
turbulent wake when I'm underpowered (going slow). I have some experience where  
a polished bottom (reducing drag) appears to promote early planing, with  
potential problems (according to Ken Winner??) at high speed due to bad release  
at the rails and/or the board won't "stick" to the water surface.

I haven't sailed a "phaser" bottomed board, so cannot comment on the early  
planing one way or the other. It could be that they are fast, but not because  
they're like golf balls. 

Kim
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: edwilson@leland.Stanford.EDU (Edward Wilson)
Subject: Phasers, ...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:41:12 GMT


> Dave Purdy (pm5031dp@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil) says:


> After riding
> all of the phaser boards I can't say I am really sold on it and the
> Seatrend 8'-0" is a phazer board.  Maybe somebody in net land has an
> opinion???

There's that word again.  What exactly is a phaser (I'm sure Kirk knows
:-) )?   I have heard that "spoons" were the big thing 2 years ago, 
"phasers" last year, and ??? this year (don't know the name but it has 
1 fin and 4 thrusters).

Does anyone know the main differences between these things and a "board".

Are they only a Gorge thing?

Thanks,

Ed
ed@sun-valley.stanford.edu


From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:50:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Shipping a Brick! (was: More Mail Order Complaints)
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

Lets try cost accounting on this problem:

Assume 15 minutes to take an order, pull from inventory, wrap, weigh,
label and drive to post office.  Also assume $4/hr for the worker doing
this.

Thus you get $1 per order for S&H direct labor.  Selling price is 4
times this to cover marketing and other costs of doing business (which
is typical in the computer industry).

Now we have $4 for Handling plus postage which I believe comes to what
you were charged.

Buying multiple items uses about the same amount of Handling time
which is why mailorder companies give better S&H rates for multiple
item orders (except to this CD club I belong to, but that is another
story for rec.audio).

Bottom line, I think $6 is fair for a fin and $10 is a rip-off.

Kirk out

BTW, if customer service sucks, then don't deal with them since that is
part of what you are paying for.
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: New Board Advice.....phase two.
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:40:03 GMT
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD

>Personally, what I think Bic needs is a high-wind board that can match
>up to the Mistral Ecstasy.  They also need 8'6" and 8'10" boards that jibe
>great rather than just being all-out race boards.
>
>Will Estes         Internet: westes@netcom.com 
----------
First, I agree that BIC makes excellent boards for the money.

Second, I think truely high wind boards can't be used in that many
places so it might not be good a good investment of tooling dollars
for BIC.  Also, each true high wind location (say 25 knots and above)
has its own set of conditions which are best addressed by local board
makers.  Add the variable of sailor weight the combinations possible
for high wind gets very large.  For example, my CFlex is very good
for riding swells and waves or sailing fast in (relatively) flat water
like San Luis/O'Neil Forebay at my weight.  At Rio Vista, I find that the
tail is much too wide and I bounce over the waves rather than slice 
through them on starboard reaches.  I looked at the boards the guys
doing lots of jumps, fancy jibes and other expert moves
(and a few gals) were using when I was there on a 4.0/3.0 day and they
were Gorge Animals, ASDs and other custom 8'2"'s to 8'6"'s with narrow
tails (there were a few custom ASD epoxy wave boards some of the guys
from ASD were trying out as well).

On the coast, many wave sailors use asymetrics so BIC would have to tool
for two boards with the asymetry on one side for one board and the other
side for the other.........

Kirk out
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: siim@waterloo.hp.com (Brad Siim)
Subject: Where to go in late September? ARUBA???
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:30:25 GMT
Organization: HP Panacom Div Waterloo ON Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

I want to go away someplace from the 17 to the 28 ish of September.  I 
am under the impression that this is a bad time of year to go to
Aruba.  Is this true? Does anybody have any recommendations on where 
to go?  I need a place that is vacation like with other activities 
because I am travelling with a friend who is new to the Scene. Ontario
has been pretty bad this season and I am showing symptoms of withdrawal.
I need wind!!!!


Brad Siim (519) 883-3043
siim@hppadv.waterloo.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: No Olympic Windsurfing Coverage?
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:56:42 GMT
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <18413@durer.cme.nist.gov>
jthan@rrdstrad.nist.gov (Jonathan M. Richardson) writes:
 
>I believe that there will be _no_ olympic windsurfing coverage at all on
>any of the channels, including the olympic triplecast (which costs ~$145
>including tax, I passed on it...).
>
 
Clari.sports.olympic occasionally has sailing related articles.  I am
starting to suspect that not everyone gets this newsgroup.  So, I posted
the current material on rec.boats (which seems primarily sailing oriented).
 
 
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans          Those who can, teach;
                                     those who can't, don't;
eplus17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu             and too many who think they
or EPLUS17@UIUCVMD                   can teach neither can nor do.
From: du@oregon.uoregon.edu (Dave Ulrich)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Mistral 9'4" board, sails for sale (Oregon)              Organization: UO Computing Center
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:10:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Jul22.231015.21912
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services


 Diamond Head, 9'4", 115 liters, purchased new in '89, sailed 15-20
 times, like new condition (no dings, repairs or even cosmetic marks). 
 Includes 12" slalom fin, footstraps, and universal/base.  Mast track 
 set up to receive 3 different types of base.  A comfortable, floaty
 board for making the transition to shortboards, learning waterstarts,
 and working on jibes.  Will deliver in Oregon.                  $500

 Also, 5 RAF sails: North Ezzy Wave 4.0; NeilPryde 4.6 slalom, 5.5 wave,
 6.4 speed, and 7.0 dynamic.  All circa '88-'89, in good condition.
												                                                     $150 @

 (Getting seriouser.)   
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu)
Subject: Re: Sun goop
Reply-To: cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu)
Organization: NCAR / Scientific Computing Division, Boulder CO.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:32:39 GMT

In article <16829B0A1.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
> >>
> >> >What's a good brand of sun-screen to use when windsurfing?
> >>
> >Aloegator is very good, it dries completely, and will only come off with
> >soap and water.  Another good one is Coppertone Sport.  Comes in a blue bottle,
> >I've seen it in SPF8 and SPF15.  It also dries completely, and does not come
> >off until you wash it off.
> >
> >It is also less expensive than Aloegator, but Aloegator is probably a superior
> >product.
> >
> Two questions:
>  
> 1.  Is SPF 8 or 15 really enough?  I have been using some SPF 15--
> unknown brand, but supposedly waterproof-- and still get burned slightly
> when I sail all day (10am to 6pm).  I does NOT seem to be a problem of
> the stuff washing off since, since reapplying the stuff every hour
> doesn't seem to help.  (Maybe, reapplying frequently doesn't make any
> difference because it washes off SO fast that I am basically always
> sailing unprotected, but I doubt it; I think that I would burn seriously
> if that were the case.)  It occurs to me that 8 hours on the water,
> including the mid day hours may be equivalent to 12-20 hours of sun on
> dry land.  SPF8 or 15 then reduces this to 1 or two hours...still
> enough to slightly burn many of us.
>  
  I've seen quite a few reports now that say there is no effective SPF factor 
  greater than 15, unless you use zinc oxide - which is a true sun block.

  I lived right near the equator for three years and all I used was 15.  It
  seemed to work for me. I used Sundown and Banana Boat waterproof lotions.
  You might try spending a little more time in the shade or wearing a light
  shirt.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cris Hannu                       |  Windsurfing the high country.
Cray Research, Inc.              |
@NCAR - Boulder, CO              |         ^           ^
cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu        |        / \ ___)___ / \ 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------