From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: First Duty (Spoilers)
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:16:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.012205.17574@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin) writes:
>
>>Spoilers for First Duty

>
>>Sorry, hated almost everything about this one.  I am not kidding.
>
>Well, you can't please *everyone*...

But I loved Cause and Effect!

>
>>I couldn't buy the whole premise.  Let's see, Wesley knows that the
>>maneuver is dangerous and regardless of whether they pull it off or
>>not there is going to be a reprimand at the least.  
>
>Maybe, maybe not.  It's awfully tough to give a formal reprimand to people
>who are outright legends at the time.  It's even tougher to mean it.

OK, I'll agree. Strike the >> lines above.

>
>>Joshua whatshisname
>>isn't ready for the maneuver.  Wesley stated at sometime that Josh had
>>been shakey as of late and yet Wesley decides to risk it all on a stupid
>>childish prank.  
>
>Wrong in some respects.  Wes never said that Josh was shaky; Locarno did
>when he tried to put the blame on him.  I believe Josh being not-quite-ready
>for the stunt was established, but not the "problems" Locarno tried to
>allude to.

I seem to remember them agreeing that Josh had been showing signs of 
cold feet, or of not being ready.  I might misremember, but in the
scene where the fantastic four decided to blame it all on Josh, they
all agreed that he had been acting a little off of late.  Maybe that
was just Locarno trying to make excuses.  But it seemed to me that in
that scene they made it somewhat clear that Josh had been having some
problems and that they all acknowledged it.

>
>>I couldn't buy this characterization of Wesley.  
>
>You mean he's a human being and an occasionally brash young kid?

I won't reply to the 4 or 5 more times you use the same tired line.  Just
here, just once.  Wesley has served on board a starship for 4 years and
has been around the best officers in the fleet.  He has screwed up, hasn't
everyone, but he has been an honest person.  everytime he has gotten in
trouble, he told the truth and got help from those who could help.  Even
in that nanite thing, once he knew there was a problem he came clean.

Now all of a sudden this mature whiz kid succumbs to pressure and attempts
a dangerous maneuver which gets someone killed.  He then embarks on a 
course of deception, deceiving the board, attempting to decieve Picard
etc...  Yes he made the initial mistake, but given a day or two of time, 
I would expect him to come clean.  I just don't see Locarno having that
much control over him.  But hey, that's my MO.

[deleted rest of your arguments on Wesley being young, and compounding
 his initial mistake by lying more than once]

>
>(I trust my point is getting across here.  You're complaining because he's
>not perfect, when most people's complaints about the early Wes were that
>he was amazingly, and unrealistically, perfect.  You can't have it both
>ways.)

Aha, and you are admitting that he is always perfect and now he's not.
Sounds out of character to me. :)

>
>>The leader of nova squadron was a jerk.  Who would follow him?  
>
>Evidently a great many people.  I wouldn't have wanted to serve under
>him myself, but he seemed to capture a certain charisma that I could see
>affecting a lot of people.  Hey, I wouldn't be very interested in serving 
>under a young Kirk *either*.

Four people followed that cadet.  Evidently a great many? huh?

Kirk bashing again.  He's not my personal hero, but you're being a bit
excessive.  You know next to nothing about his past, you are stretching
the limits of reason here Tim.  You and others are building a past for
someone.  Could you get it put on the screen so I can accept it as canon? :)

And, one more little note (note: non canon, please ignore!) in Kobyashi
Maru, I think it was brought forth in Chekov's story that Kirk was an
excellent cadet, an *innovative* leader with charisma.  Please don't
follow this up with a "So wasn't Locarno" post. :)

>
>>Oh, and to the person who compared the leader of Nova Squadron to
>>James T Kirk, I have this to say; NFW (No F*cking Way)!  
>
>I've discussed this elsewhere.  I think you're overreacting; Kirk was
>hardly perfect or a god, and you're bordering on worship here.

Not at all, not at all.  Like I said, Locarno seems more like a brash
young Picard based on screen (insert canon) evidence of Picard's academy
days.  You quite simply have no data on Kirk's academy days.  You are
reaching, reaching, (damn you slipped and fell:)

>
>>Boothby, totally unnecessary waste of time.  
>
>Why?  I found him interesting and downright entertaining.
>

Hum, the "I'd like to thank you scene" made me cringe. Yuch!

>>Sorry, I liked the Vulcan.  I was cringing as he cross examined the
>>cadets and showed that they were obviously lying.  
>
>So was I, but more along the lines of "and this guy's getting PAID?"  Woefully
>unimpressive.
>

OK, I'll have to come clean here.  I was so unnerved, picturing myself
in Wesley's position, that I didn't notice so much the acting or the
actor, but the questions and the tone.  Scared the daylights out of me!

>>The scene in Picard's ready room was fabulous.  Saved it from an F.
>>Stewart was great.  Even Wesley did well in that scene.
>
>Agreed, but...didn't you argue a few paragraphs back that Wes lying and
>then refusing to answer Picard was way out of character?  Um...I'm
>confused here.

Hum, I said the scene was great.  Stewart did a wonderful acting job and
Wheaton did a good job.  I couldn't buy the premise but I was definitely
moved.

>
>>Didn't really like the scene where Picard informed Beverly that Wesley
>>was OK.  I'm no psychologist, but the wooden, hypnotized manner didn't
>>cut it for me.  If my little girl (22 months) was injured and they told
>>me she was alright, I'd be overjoyed.  Beat the grim reaper again.
>

>You say that now.  Are you *sure* that if there was a major accident,
>that you would *only* feel overjoyed at her being alive?  I can readily see
>a certain shock entering in, and Bev's worked beautifully.

Yes I can.  I didn't like the scene.  Sorry.  Just IMO.

>Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
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