From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:58:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand) writes:

>I look at things a bit differently and I wonder how others on the net
>feel.  Chris's above statement makes me nervous.  What if a dog really
>lays into a kid?  Do we own anything that's worth perhaps permanently
>hurting a child ('cause no matter how you cut it, a nine year old is a
>child).  Are stereos and tvs more valuable than people?  

 In SOME State the law allows you to use deadly force to protect property.
 Other States allow the use of deadly force against someone who has entered
 you home with criminal intent. Yet others allow deadly force ONLY to prevent
 death/grevious harm.  Dogs are usually considered deadly force if you 
 directly order the dog to attack, or if it is a guard dog.  Where I live
 the vicious dog laws exempt a dog that bites a person while that person
 is commiting a criminal act. BTW: Don't assume that just because an 
 intruder is a "child" that they are harmless.  People have been killed
 by intruders who were "children". Even a 9 year old can pull a trigger.

>Another thing that concerns me, is my dog's safety.  I don't know if this
>happens very often (maybe y'all on the net know more), but I am very
>worried that my dog would be hurt or killed trying to defend my property.
>I would much prefer that my dog bark her head off and then happily show a
>thief where the good silver is.  Sterling in replaceable, my dog is not! 

 Yup! a 16 year old thug with a 6" knife can easily kill a dog who has not
 been trained to handle such situations.  a couple pissed off dogs might be
 a different story. I still wouldn't want to risk it.

>Anyone who is sick enough to break into my house to hurt me,
>would not hesitate to hurt my dog.  

 Yup.

>Again, learning to protect yourself
>through self-defense courses would seem more pratical.  Afterall, you
>might not have the dog with you when the attack comes.

 The only problem here is that to learn SERIOUS self-defense methods,
 and to be good enough to apply them can take 15-20hr/week for several
 years.  It also assumes that you have the physical skills required to
 learn such methods.  A person with certain physical handicaps or certain
 illness, or those who are elderly may not be able to aquire these skills.
 The other factor is that most people don't even think about self-defense
 until it's too late.  i.e. The LA riots suddenly motivated 1,000s of
 people to decend upon gun stors seeking protection, only to discover a
 15 day waiting period. The really sad part is that most of these people
 never owned or even handled a firearm before, and hence had most likely
 NEVER recieved ANY firearm safety or operational training.  They view
 a gun as some magic instrument that would protect them without realizing
 that proper firearms handling/use requires training.  Still, if you have
 the time/interest/physical ability to learn self-defense, it can be 
 useful.  It also is a good method of exercise, and as Carol pointed
 out, an attack might come when you have neither dog/gun/mace/knife/base-
 ball bat, or low-yield nuclear warhead to defend yourself with.
 
>A couple of people have stated that one of the main reasons to have a dog
>is for protection.  My main reason for having a dog is love and
>companionship.  I see it as my job to protect my dog, not visa versa.

 I appreciate it when my dogs bark and let me know that someone is out 
 by the cars, or slinking around the house at 3AM. (Both of which are
 things they have alerted me to.)  But I would no more send my dogs
 downstairs to "deal" with an intruder, than someone would send their
 10 year old child.  Since I don't personally believe that I should
 kill someone just to protect my VCR, (even though the State I live in
 legally allows you to kill most any intruder), I would lock the bedroom
 door, call 911, and wait.  If they attemped entry into the bedroom they
 would be informed that I was armed & the police were on the way. If
 they still attemped entry you could be reasonably certain that they
 were there for more than just your color TV.  (BTW: The dogs would get
 put in the bathroom or closet since the concussion from a firearm in
 close quarters could cause serious ear damage. I have ear plugs, the 
 dogs don't).

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com

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