From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:55:00 GMT

In article <BxMx75.5Iq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!) writes:
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>
>
>>In a previous article, hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) says:
>
>>>In article <1992Nov10.233727.11527@syacus.acus.oz.au>, steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff) writes:
>>>|> A question for those who drive automatics: Have you *ever* seen a racing
>>>|> car (F1, Indy, Stock, Rally, etc.) that has an auto transmission?
>>>
>>> Drag racers do as well as several SCCA Showroon Stock classes.
>>>
>>>
>>> In a somewhat similar train of thought...
>>>
>>> Why did GM only put automatics in the Buick Grand Nationals and 
>>> the GMC Syclones and Typhoons?  I've always thought this strange.
>>my thoughts..no proof..

Before the latest ZF six-speed now in the LT1/ZR1 Vettes and '93 Z28s, they
didn't have a standard that would handle the torque of the turbocharged
motors...  The only ones available were extremely expensive, which is why
they could only be found on the Vette.  That's also why the 5.7L Z28/IrocZ/
Transam/Formula 350s were never sold with sticks, only autos. (not turbo, but
340 ft/lbs of torque)

>
>[Drew suggests more people might want auto.'s, a manual couldn't handle the
>power, a special manual would have to be made and a capable auto already ex-
>isted]
>
>>DREW
>
>Without denying these (which are all probably true), let me just add that an
>automatic actually allows better performance in turbocharged cars.  At launch,
>there is no sensible way to bring up boost before take-off with a stick, but
>all you have to do on an auto is lock the brakes, hit the gas, let the boost
>come up take your foot off the brake, stomp the gas, and hold on.  

High performance turbocharged street cars don't really want full boost on
launch.  It's fine for cars using slicks at the track, but for racing on
street tires, you just end up wasting rubber anyway.  A really high performance
car, whether turbocharged or not, will lose traction when it gets into its
powerband in first gear.  Then powershifting into 2nd will keep the boost
up throughout second gear, when it can finally (hopefully) hook up.  By the
time you're in third, you need as much HP as possible.  An automatic is
sucking 20+ HP more than the stick at this point...
My point is, the extra power provided by the automatic is lost in tiresmoke
through 1st and 2nd.  Then when you get into 3rd, the standard equiped car
has the power advantage.

>                                                                   During 
>shifts, there is *NO* way to keep up boost on a manual; an automatic has no
>problem as the RPM's, load, and thus boost are kept up.  

Ever heard of power-shifting?  Not good for the clutch, but it definitely
keeps up the rpm, and the boost.  All you have to know is how to shift quickly.
If you don't, you risk over-revving the motor.  Since most modern motors have
rev-limiters anyway, it shouldn't be a problem...
Also, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that automatics soak up alot
more horsepower than a standard.  Is the better launch worth losing 20HP to
heat and drag in the automatic?  It wouldn't be to me...  I'd rather learn
to shift faster.  And as for people saying that an automatic shifts faster
and more consistently than a standard, that's probably true theoretically,
but in practice it doesn't make any difference if the person can shift
the standard quickly.  And as for consistency, I've gotten 3 quarter-mile
runs within 4 hundreths of a second, which is more consistent than a good
many automatic equiped cars....

>                                                         Even though, I would
>still rather have a stick with most turbos (Saab, Maserati, etc) because damit,
>the autos don't perform *THAT* much better, and the sticks are SO much more
>fun!                    ^^^^^^

Unless you're at the drag-strip, they don't perform *any* better!

>
>BTW, Drew brings up a good point about the clutches on Laser/Talon/Eclipse.
>Has anyone heard anything about the durability of the 5-speed drivetrain on
>these?
>
>-- 
>Michael T. Chaffee        |******BOYCOTT COLORADO******|  ______    
>mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
>Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
>Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE


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       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

           "Laughed at by time, tricked by circumstances" -Peart
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
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