HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: duzan@buster.cis.udel.edu (Gary D. Duzan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:36:11 GMT
Organization: Your Organization Could Be Here!

In article <cfNQIh200Uh707Mq4P@andrew.cmu.edu> Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU> writes:
=>
=>    I have a question about an event in the fourth book.  In Alcair Dal,
=>Rand planned to reveal himself as the Car'a'carn.  However, Couladin
=>somehow gets the two tatoos and claims that he is the Car'a'carn. 
=>However, acording to prophecy, once the Dragon proclaims himself, there
=>will be no more False Dragons.  If this means that Couladin is not a
=>False Dragon, just what is he?

   A false Car'a'carn? Different prophecy, different rules.

                                        Gary Duzan
                                        Time  Lord
                                    Third Regeneration
                                          Aielman



-- 
                             duzan@cis.udel.edu
   _o_                       ------------------                         _o_
 [|o o|]       Virtual Reality? No thanks, I've already got one.      [|o o|]
  |_O_|       Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about.      |_O_|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch)
Subject: Re: writing Styles
Reply-To: mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch)
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:14:56 GMT


|> In article <1993Jan21.162345.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, mwhatt01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
|> |> I am curious as to what this groups opinions are concerning writing
|> |> styles.  Do you like a writer who as a very clear style so that
|> |> you don't even notice it.  Or do you prefer writing that is highly
|> |> stylized.  
|> 


It's not style, but I rarely read a book that's written in the first
person singular.  I'm not comfortable with them, generally, and I'm
not sure why.  Maybe I'd rather be a spectator than a participant.
Anyone else suffer(?) from this bias?

Mike Lynch
mdl@oscar.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bcd@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Bryan Dunlap)
Subject: Re: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Organization: OSU Physics Dept.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:39:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.012023.63037@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:

   ...still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE
	   Don't you think that is odd, you would have thought they would have
   gotten away from dos, by that timeperiod...(at least the .exe extension).

I figured it was Tops-20.  AI, Lisp, 36 bits, all those go together :-)

Seriously, .exe is a common extension implying 'executable' in many an OS.

Bryan Dunlap, OSU Physics Dept.      | Giving money and power to government is
bcd@mps.ohio-state.edu  614/292-3402 | like giving whiskey and car keys to 
174 W. 18th Ave. Columbus OH 43210   | teenage boys.  -- P.J. O'Rourke
DoD# 881   AMA# 653094    '75 GT250   '76 CB360T
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Is SF imaginative? (somewhat long)
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:16:34 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mamba.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <ESCHNEID.93Jan21172816@sparc8.tamu.edu> eschneid@sparc8.tamu.edu (Erich R Schneider) writes:
>
>However, a certain subset of modern literature can be seen to be
>questioning the current cultural norms, rather than reinforcing them.
>Rather than confirming that what everyone sees as "right" is in fact
>so, these more radical works challenge our notions of "rightness".
>Much modern literature, of course, acts in the usual way to reinforce
>current norms.

You are considerable free with your dichotomies.  I admire this.
It indicates cojones.

It'd interest me, though, to see how you classify the following works;
and why.  

Paul Park's _Soldiers of Paradise_
Michael Swanwick's _Stations of the Tide_
Lucius Shepard's _Life During Wartime_
Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New Sun_
Mark Helprin's _A Winter's Tale_
Iain Banks' _Consider Phlebas_
and Ian McDonald's _Desolation Road_.


Do they reinforce our Eurocentric, patrimonial, mammonistic,
homophobic, and (of course) profoundly decadent Social Norms?  Or do
they boldly step out into this literary chasm, where No Man hath Gone
Before, and Subvert the Dominant Paradigm?

Explained answers for three or four of the above would, I think, go
quite a ways toward explaining your position.

c
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:47:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Distribution: world
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: bambam.u.washington.edu

frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell) writes:

> To bring this back to Donaldson (slightly): it's been a long time since I read  
> him, but I remember an annoying over-elaboration in his prose.  (Not to single  
> him out; early Moorcock also suffers from the "I want to sound like Beowulf,  
> only grander" disease.)  And I couldn't find "roynish" in the OED.

1) I, for one, like his style very much.
2) I found "roynish" in a common unabridged dictionary at my local library.

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                              | "You live and learn.
Computer Facilities Manager             |   At any rate, you live."
University of Washington, Tacoma        |            -- Douglas Adams
iho@cac.washington.edu                  | 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Niven/Pournelle, continued
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:26:41 GMT

Wow! All these different Niven male/female disparity thingies going on, and
nobody mentioned the Grendels, where the females (those are the big,
ugly dragon critters) _eat_ the males (being the samlon - no, i didn't 
misspell that, read the book) and are _much_ more intelligent, agressive,
etc.

How'd all you Nivenphiles miss that one/ Or did I miss your not missing it?
8-)

jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov     
Madison,AL (205)461-4922  
i need to ask myself.....
***********         Would I rather be right, or happy?         ***********
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:09:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.183058.21079@cc.gatech.edu> erica@cc.gatech.edu (Erica Liebman Sadun) writes:
>(1) Who is jaim farstrider.  Indications are (strong strong hints) that 
>	he is still alive. Could he be Thom? 

Interesting.  I don't have the books here, so I can't check the
timing.  I'd guess that Jordan would have dropped some hints by now,
though, and I can't think of any.

>(3) Who was Mat?

A number of people, I think, as his memories seem to have come from
a period of several lifetimes.

>(4) OF course!  Gawyn == Gawain just as Galad == Galahad.  (Hit me on the
>	forehead!  Egwene is besotted by Galad right now, but 10 gets you
>	2 1/2 that she ends up with more sensible Gawyn who doesn't turn
>	his siblings in for stealing cookies.

This may not be a good thing, given what Gawyn has done recently.
And remember Min's vision?

>(5) Why is Tigraine and not Breyan the mother of Rand?  I'm a bit confused
>	on this.  Remember that Luc/Isam looks an awful lot like Rand (same
>	mom?, indicating Breyan) and an awful lot like Lan (cousined dad). 

"Lord Luc" looks like Rand (Luc's nephew, by the Tigraine theory)
because Isam was wearing Luc's form, but Isam, in his natural
"Slayer" form, looks like Lan, his, uh, something.

>    I dunno about Aviendha.  The reason is that we know that the third one is
>    blond and from a farm.  Selene/Mierin/Lanfear may fit that mold.  

Could you remind me how we know this?  Lanfear is not blond,
assuming the "natural form" she showed Rand was accurate.  The only
blond farmgirl I know of is Else, which would be rather odd.
Unless, perhaps, Lanfear's taking of Else's form indicates that
there *is* no Else, it's just Lanfear playing games.  But that seems
pretty unlikely.

> For that matter, exactly how many forsaken
> are there and have we met or killed them all yet?

The thirteen Forsaken are named in the back of TSR.  Some are dead;
some we've met or heard of; some we know nothing about.

>(8) What IS the song of the Nim?  What did the Green Man have to do with them?

The Green Man was the Nym Someshta, whom Rand saw singing a
crop-growing song with the Da'shain Aiel.  He also saw the Aes Sedai
creating the Eye of the World and asking Someshta to watch over it.
That section is worth rereading; the reverse chronological order
makes it easy to miss things the first time.

	 PGP 2 key by finger or e-mail
   Eli   ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Is SF imaginative?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:29:19 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <C1FJs7.C60@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>>
>>But I believe it is worth the attempt.  Examples of success might
>>include some of the works of Iain Banks; of Ian McDonald; William
>>Gibson (though it's easy to be cool, when you're such a damn
>>minimalist); [...]
>
>Gibson?  He's as ideological as they come, I'd say.  The consistent use
>of dystopia and moral neutrality *is* an ideological statement.

If you think that way, _everything_ is an ideological
statement.  Even a romance novel is an ideological statement -
the author has chosen to write about beautiful healthy rich
white people instead of oppressed leprotic Somalians!

Literature is often quite the Rorschach test.

c
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: The Grasping Hand
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:48:39 EST
Organization: ACME Products

	Hey, how long has this been out?!

	Just picked it up today.

Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
	"There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an
intellectual conviction."  Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tokarj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Joyce Tokar)
Subject: Re: Dumarest of Terra
Summary: The Quest Continues...
Keywords: Dumarest Tubb series titles
Organization: Ada Joint Program Office
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:37:25 EST

In article <1993Jan25.074600.6964@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>
>  Yet they weren't written *all* that badly, were they.  The
>  catch, Joyce,  is that you only need one.  :)

Wayne:

     Thanks for filling in #27, "Earth is Heaven".  Actually, because
the series is out of print, my husband and I have fun searching out
the books in different places on the planet, Terra, I mean :=).  We
have found copies in the States, Greece, South Africa, England and who
knows where next.  We look at the series as reasonably good
"brain-rot"!

Cheers, have a cup of Basic for me

Joyce
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rzuw039@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Juergen Weinelt)
Subject: Re: Extremely Hokey SF: The Norby Chronicles
Organization: University of Wuerzburg, Germany
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:54:55 GMT

In article <alien.02pv@acheron.amigans.gen.nz> (22 Jan 93 15:30:54 GMT+12) Ross Smith (alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz) wrote:

> But Harrison has written some very good comedies ... the first few Stainless
> Steel Rat books, and of course "The Technicolour Time Machine" (and the one
> you mentioned, "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers").

Well, I like some of the latest Steelrat books best... try

   The Stainless Steelrat Gets Drafted
   (very good anti-militarian story)

   The Stainless Steelrat for President
   (some very nasty stabs against electional campaigns(sp?))

If you like fantasy type stories, you should definitely try
A.D.Foster's "Spellsinger" books.

-- Juergen Weinelt, Germany

 o  _        jow@sun.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de (preferred)
 | (_) \/\/  jow@hcast.adsp.sub.org
 '           jow@hcast.franken.de

"Think of it as evolution in action." (Niven/Pournelle: Oath Of Fealty)
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Aes Sedai
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:35:16 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu
Summary: Allegorical references
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry

Just a couple little tidbits I've come across in the recent past, sorry if
I'm repeating something you already know:

Aes Sedai:

	For the longest time, nobody I've known or seen the writings of
has been able to come up with any "real-world" tradition/myth/religion
that fits the concept of Aes Sedai.  However, I've recently been given to
know that El Shadai is, if my source was right, a Hebrew term for God. 
Sorry...no leads on Saidin/Saidar, though.

Grand Inquisitor General of the Children of the Light:

	Or whatever the hell the term was..."Grand Inspector Inquisitor
Whatever" is a similar term to a Masonic rank.

Children of the Light:

	American Quakers originally referred to themselves by this term.

Whitecloaks:

	An old (derogatory?) term for the Knights Templar.

Sa'angreal:

	The Sang Real = The Holy Grail (a fount of power).

Shayol Ghul:

	Sheol = Hebrew term for "hell"  (So what does "sharom" mean?)

Anybody got any others?  One of these days, I'll compend a list.... :)

Cheers,


--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"
From: Bob_Hearn@qm.claris.com (Robert Hearn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: "Forward the Foundation" - I've got it!
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:20:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Spartacus Software

Well, the uncorrected proof, anyway.  For those who don't know, this is
Asimov's last Foundation novel, the one he had just (almost?) finished
when he died.

The copy I have says that April is the publication date.

Haven't read it yet, but it's in five parts:

Part 1: Eto Demerzel
Part 2: Cleon I
Part 3: Dors Venabili
Part 4: Wanda Seldon (Hari's granddaughter(!), and architect of the 2nd
                      Foundation(!))
Part 5: Epiloge


It looks like it is basically a more detailed look at how the Foundations
got started, and how the Galactic Empire collapsed.  It is set between
the times of _Prelude_to_Foundation_ and _Foundation_.


Bob Hearn
Spartacus Software

Opinions expressed here are those of my empolyer, since that's me.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: Bruce McAllister / Bibliographies on the net
Organization: fwa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:38:43 GMT

write@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Glen Cox) writes:

>Bruce McAllister has published only one novel that I can think of
>off the top of my head, DREAM BABY (St. Martins or Tor, late 80s).
>The book that he edited with Harry Harrison was THERE WON'T BE
>WAR, an anthology of stories ascribing peaceful solutions to 
>conflict.

DREAM BABY.  Tor hardcover, 1989, o.p.  Tor paperback, 1991, 0-812-51098-4,
$4.99.  

-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden       :      senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com * CIS: 72701,1344 * GEnie: PNH * opinions mine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu (GRIZZLE)
Subject: Re: Questions about Pern, _Rescue_Flight_
Reply-To: gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu (GRIZZLE)
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:49:45 GMT

I don't about the new book Rescue Flight, but say a year to a year and half
ago Anne McCaffery wrote a short story called "Rescue Run".  It was printed
by _Analog_ magazine (or related publiction) i think.  It detailed a story
that took place, yes 51 years after initial settlement (covered in "Dragon's
dawn").  

*spoilers*

The story is about a young commander (related to one of the Pern expedition
commanders) who is still in FSP service.  He recieves the planetary mayday
from one of the Pern settlements left on automatic.  He and landing party
land on Pern, rescue one of the settlements in the southern continent that
had been left behind without knowledge of any of the other setterlers 
surviving the Volcanic Explosions and escaping to the Northern Continent.

The party the young commander rescue's is in bad shape, and without giving
anything else away about the story, the commander remains ignorant about
any survivor's on Pern and reports that every one in the settlement has
died.  He goes on to put a warning on the planetary system because of the
red planet with the excentric orbit and the Ort cloud, this keeps anyone
else from ever considering this system for exploration, colonization, or 
any other kinds of use that those space faring entities may persue.

jg
					
					-Jon Grizzle (gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu)
From: phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:51:30 GMT
Organization: CUMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu

In article <1993Jan23.022751.27666@ulysses.att.com>, smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
|> In article <1jp3rqINNkk5@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart) writes:
|> > Worst example of a War-Between-the-Sexes I can recall was a book (by an
|> > author mercifully forgotten) called "Native Tongue," about a tribe of
|> > professional translators on an Earth where women are legally inferior
|> > (apparently deemed so by some bizarre scientific finding in the past,
|> > although the woman who wrote it never bothered to explain it).
|> 
|> For what it's worth, I enjoyed the book.  Be that as it may -- if the
|> perceived ideological bias offends you, think of such books as counter-
|> weights.  And if you ask ``counterweights to what?'', I'll reply, ``My
|> point exactly.''

No, it wasn't so much the author's coming across as an "All Men Are Scum"
type (which may not even be true...I'm not going to let one book form an
opinion of the author for me), just that it was A) a particularly egregious
example from the female side and B) a particularly bad (IMHO) book, where
nothing seemed to be at odds except the story's view of men in general.
Bleh.

-- 
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu       Cornell University Medical College and the
phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
phydeaux@src4src.linet.org      any knowledge of my opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: barring@cs.washington.edu (David Barrington)
Subject: Re: Update of G. R. Dickson's Childe Cycle bibliography
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:26:20 GMT

The bibliography probably ought to include "The Didactics of Mystique",
a parody of "Tactics of Mistake", written by Grant Callin for some special
issue of Analog, probably about 1983.  It was allegedly part 2 or 3 of a 
4-part serialization (I assume the other parts don't exist except for the
synopsis of the earlier ones.)  I remember it as being very funny, and very
well written relative to the other Analog stuff, which isn't saying much.
As I recall, Callin is a Vietnam vet and his other stuff is military-oriented,
which made him appropriate for this job.

Perhaps someone can provide the bibliographer with a full reference?  I think
it may have been an "April Fool" all-parody issue -- a dangerous thing to
try in a magazine that verges on self-parody anyway.  Yes, I remember now,
there was a Heinlein parody that went downhill rapidly after the opening line,
"Put down that wench!" (cf. "Blowups Happen").

On a similar track, does anyone know for sure how badly Analog mangles the 
novels it chooses to serialize?  On at least three occasions ("Courtship Rite",
"Falling Free", and "Barrayar") I've read the Analog version first, been
relatively unimpressed, and then really liked the book when I finally read
the bound version.  But I've never compared both versions side-by-side.

Dave MB
From: sranade@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Shrikant Ranade)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:59:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Tales of the hunted earth
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

In rec.arts.sf.written grayfish@oneb.almanac.bc.ca writes:

>Hello, about 2 years ago I read the first book in the Tales of the Hunted
>earth series, and have been unable to find the sequel. I am not sure about 
>the name of the auther, except the his last name started with a( I'm sure 
>that narrows the field a whole lot 8^)  ). If anyone has any information
>about it , I would like to here from them

I _think_ the book you refer to is "A Ring of Charon", by Roger McBride
Allen.  The paperback mentions "the Hunted Earth Series" on the cover.
I found it a good, light read:  some good ideas, and the plot keeps
moving, but somewhat lacking in characterization.

I don't believe there is a sequel out, though I would certainly welcome
a correction.

--Shrikant


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shrikant Ranade                                          sranade@cup.hp.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A *what* fingered hand?
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:42:29 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

stamant@titanic.cs.umass.edu (Robert Stamant) wrote:
> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
> >    _   | | | | | |  Basically, this is a poor ascii attempt to render a
> >   / \  | | |_| | |  hand with four digits.  But I can't stand the word
> >   | |  | | [_] | |  'digits.'  So, let me ask my question:
> >   \  \_| | | | | |
> >    \             |  Is this a four-fingered hand or a three-fingered
> >     \            |  hand?  In either case, do I count these fingers
> >      \           |  (from left to right) as 'Thumb, first, second,
> >       \          |  third,' or is it 'Thumb, second, third, fourth?'
> I'm curious why it matters.  Science fiction often treats us with details
> necessary to bring us into a completely different world; just as often,
> though, I find myself thinking that it's just a bunch of tags to keep me
> from confusing one writer's world with the next.  Coke vs Pepsi.

And it also suggests somebody isn't thinking very hard about the biology.
Hands are only one solution for the problem of gripping things, and they
depend on a very specific evolutionary past: the limb development pattern
adopted by amphibians, and the development of a specialized thumb in the
apes.  On the other hand, exoskeletal gripping claws and tentacle-like
prehensile organs have been innovated separately in different phyla;
they're much more plausible as a generic mechanism.

Now what *I'd* like evolution to have dealt me is an extra opposable thumb;
anyone who's ever used a soldering iron can imagine what that could be used
for.  For that matter, why not a thumb as the central one of five digits
opposable to the pair on each side of it, or six identical digits arranged
in three mutually opposable pairs?  The Maori-sculpture-cum-Whitney-
Strieber design above is a real cliche nowadays.  And like the faces
Strieber attached to his aliens, this amazing ignorance of the
arbitrariness of evolutionary history shows how little SF has really got to
do with science.  I mean, when you find your extrapolations have been
anticipated 1000 years ago by a school of Neolithic woodcarvers, it's time
to start worrying...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp