From: donj@pyramid.COM (Don Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Advice needed please
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:33:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View, California

In article <1g9jg5INNc2h@agate.berkeley.edu>, bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <8+R=A3=@engin.umich.edu> Sheri Mathos <Sheri_Mathos@med.umich.edu> writes:
|> [guy asks her what he should give her for xmas, kisses her on forehead, and
|> make suggestive comments]
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec10.213214.3746@pony.Ingres.COM> kyle@Ingres.COM (Kyle Smith) writes:
|> >
|> >	terms. It sounds like he is dreaming of you, or else he's just
|> >	kidding around, but who knows? Plus the stuff he's doing is border-
|> >	ing on sexual harrassment, so you might want to remind him of that.
|> 
|> Yicks, suggestive comments, kissing someone on her forehead and asking her
|> what she wants for xmas is not considered bordering on s-h?  
|> I don't really know if this belongs in a.r, but what _is_ considered
|> sexual harassment (verbal, in this case, since I'm sure kissing someone
|> on the forehead isn't that bad (didn't they use to kiss the back of the
|> hand of lady when a gentleman meets one (oops, or am I the only one stuck
|> in the 'stone age'?)) and asking what someone wants for xmas definitely isn't)

OK, a serious answer. Actions which are approprite in one context (culture,
situation, with a certain person) are not always approprite in another context. 
For example if a Frechman grabs another Frenchman and kisses him on both cheeks 
it is considered OK. If he did this to a "traditional" "red blooded American Boy" 
he would probably get punched. (Yes these are cultural stereotypes, I'm just 
using them to make what should be an obvious point.)

Kissing a woman's hand is a fine ROMANTIC gesture. Doing this to a woman
coworker is probably sexual harrasment.

When dealing with sexual harassment keep in mind:
  - Does any type of personal relationship exist outside of the workplace?
    (This includes just friends.)
  - Is the attention unwanted?

Why would you ask a coworker who you don't have any type of personal relationship
with what they want for xmas? Combined with a kiss and suggestive comments this
is definately sexual harassment, if the attention is unwanted. Even if it isn't
unwanted kissing in the American (USA) workplace is a bad idea.

I missed the first part of this thread. But my impression is that this is a
case where a relationship did exist which one person is trying to end and the
other is trying to continue.  Possible ways to handle this without a formal
complaint is to directly tell the person to stop and if it does not then
go to the other person's supervisor and explain that these actions are
creating an uncomfortable working environment. If problems continue, go ahead
and talk to the human resources department and file a formal complaint.

Because a relationship did exist this is a grey area, but the key is that
an uncomfortable (or hostile) working environment is being created.

|> 
|> I mean I say some very snide/insiduous/gutter-minded stuff sometimes to
|> people whom I know almost enjoys that type of 'flirtation' (for lack of
|> better word).  Could I be bordering grounds for sexual harrassment?
|> (this is a genuine and serious question, I don't want to be sued for saying
|> something in jest)

Ask the questions: Is this attention unwanted? Am I making the other person
uncomfortable (i.e. creating an hostile working environment)?

Individual tolerance or comfort with, shall we say, off color, language and
"flirtation" varies widely. Basically if you are going to use this type of
language, or "flirt" with coworkers the burden is on you to correctly assess
whether the other person is comfortable with it. If you guess wrong, you
could get a complaint filed against you. So be a sensitive kind of guy and
pay attention to the other person's feelings.

The above are my own views based on what I can remember of my short training
course in sexual harassment, and should not be considered a statement on
the behalf of my employer, or anyone else for that matter.

	Don J.