HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: breck@tempest.aim.com (Breck Beatie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Highpower Rifle match, North CA, Nov 14
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:25:07 GMT
Organization: AIM Technology

There is a high power rifle match in Northern California the week end of
Nov 14, 15.  The course of fire for Saturday will be the 80 round regional
course of fire.  That is, there will be 20 rounds fired offhand (standing)
from 200 yards with two sighting shots.  Time limit for the 22 shots is 22
minutes.  There will be 20 rounds fired sitting rapid-fire from 200 yards
with two sighting shots.  (Time limit 60 seconds per string of 10 shots).
There will be 20 rounds fired prone rapid-fire from 300 yards with two
sighting shots.  (Time limit 70 seconds per string of 10 shots).  Finally,
there will be 20 rounds fired prone from 600 yards with two sighting shots.
Time limit for the 22 shots is 22 minutes.

The course of fire for Sunday will be the National Long-range Course.  This
consists of 10 shots from 200 yards standing (slow-fire), 10 shots from 200
yards sitting (rapid-fire), 10 shots from 300 yards prone (rapid fire), 10
shots from 600 yards prone (slow-fire), and 20 shots from 1000 yards prone
slow-fire.  Two sighters will be fired from each yard line.  The entire
course of fire must be fired with the same rifle.  Only iron sights will
be allowed.

The match will be held at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center.  Call Peggie
Chapman at 916-925-3759 for further information.  The cost is $20.00 to shoot
only one day or $25.00 to shoot both days.  For Juniors the cost is $5.00 per
day.

To get to the Sacremento Valley Shooting Center:

#From San Francisco Bay area:
Take I-5 north.  Take the 104 Twin Cities exit from I-5.  Go East.  You will
pass highway 99.  Keep going.  You will approach and pass the Rancho Seco
nuclear power plant.  Keep going.  Eventually, you will come to
Michigan Bar - Ione road.  (I don't know how far this is from I - 5, but its
a goodly distance)  Turn left (the only way you can turn) onto Michigan - Bar.
A few miles later, it will turn into Ione Road.  Shortly thereafter, Ione
road intersects with Meiss road.  Turn left onto Meiss and the entrance to
the shooting center is at 15501 Meiss.  It's the last gate to the right
before Meiss turns into a dirt road.

Unfortunately, I only go from the San Francisco Bay area (San Jose area
actually), so I can't tell you from personal experience how to get there
from other locales.  Feel free to call and we can try to work directions out.

The range has 25 firing points and they run 4 relays, so they can run 100
shooters through each day.  I've never (except at the Regional Championships)
seen a match more than half full so there should be PLENTY of openings.

If there's any critical information that I've left out, please feel free to
query me by e-mail or phone.
-- 
Breck Beatie	    				(408)748-8649
breck@aim.com  OR  {uunet,netcomsv}!aimt!breck
"2 does not equal 3.  Not even for very large values of 2."
		- Roy Smith
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trajectory question
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:29 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <9211041846.utk4921@CISNCC.intel.com> RRUBERT@CISNCC.intel.com writes:
#
#apas612@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Frank W. Douma) says:
#
##The solution (which has been posted) is in the trajectory.
##There is no recoil from a firearm until the projectile leaves
##the muzzle, regardless of what it feels like.  The only valid
##reason recoil causes you to miss, is because you're flinching
#
#	I have to disagree with this. I have noticed with several firarms
#	and loadings that at short range (25-100yds) heavy bullet loads
#	will shoot higher than light bullet loads. This was very noticable
#	with T/C Contender in 45-70. The 500 grn bullets would be 6-7 inches
#	higher at 100 yds than the 300grn loads. The only explanation I can 
#	see is that the 500 grn bullets are slower to get out of the barrel 
#	and the recoil had lifted the barrel further than when the 300 grn 
#	bullet had exited the barrel. This would mean that the recoil lift 
#	does occur before the bullet leaves the barrel. Anybody else notice
#	this?

I also have seen this in several firearms, most noticeably (in my case)
with bigbore revolvers.  It seems that the bigger the inertia/gunweight
ratio, the more sensitive the system is to bullet weight.  The most
sensitive gun for me is the 19-ounce .44 Special Bulldog, which puts
225-grain bullets in the bull at 50 feet (well, pretty much), and prints 
much higher with 250-grainers, maybe 3-4 inches.  This is, of course, with
fixed sights, so I adjust elevation with bullet weight.

If felt recoil is truly a measure of susceptibility to this phenomenon,
I'm not surprised that a .45-70 Contender displays it.  Whew!

 
Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:56 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov5125515@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
}
}After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
}Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
}things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)

Never shoot at glass.  Not only is it nearly impossible to clean up after,
but there's a significant ricochet hazard.

Plastic soft drink bottles full of water should be fun.  Someone suggested
putting a little diesel fuel in the bottom of an empty one for a
spectacular effect, but I've never tried it.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Moderated News group on rec.guns
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:11:38 GMT


I prefer a moderator and I do not find your comments
offensive.
Rich Pierson
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:43 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <9211080646.AA27605@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven Miale) writes:
#I've been reading the articles in the rec.guns archives,
#and it looks like the SKS is perfect for my needs: a good,
#inexpensive, reliable rifle for someone who is just starting out.
#
I would agree.  I got one about 21 years after I got my first rifle, but it
is a good starter gun.  Relatively accurate, trigger not too shabby, cheap
ammo (about $11 per 100 rounds if bought by the case or half case), reliable.
I have fired over 1000 rounds (East German and Norinco) through mine without
a single problem so far.

#What should I expect to pay for a new SKS? Also, any general
#advice (add-ons, use, etc.) would be appreciated.

Depending on the addons, about $100 to $180.  For $1 to $120 you should
get the gun with no sling, cleaning kit, bayonet, etc.  While the bayonet
and bandoleer are not that useful, I like the sling, and if this is your
first gun the cleaning kit might be useful.  I paid $137 for an SKS in
excellent condition with a cleaning kit, bayonet, sling, bandolier, oil
bottle, and 3 stripper clips (well, I would have gotten these if they had
not been out of them).  This seems to be a typical price for all of this.
For $150 to $180, you should also be able to get a scope, but I don't know
how good the scope is.  If you are a beginner, save the money, learn to hit
with iron sights, get the scope later if you want it.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Armor Piercing rounds
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:31 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <199211040045.AA00838@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, by fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary):
# In article <9211031230.aa14789@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
# #As a note, 7.62mm AP and SLAP are banned by the Federal "cop killer bullet"
# #ban, as they are AP bullets fired from handguns. Manufacturing such a round
# #without approval is probably a violation of Federal law.
# 
# Other than Thompson Center's single actions, does anyone actually
# make a pistol chambered to 7.62 NATO?
#

Well, there is that single shot outfit based on the 1911 frame. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: L.A. Riots vs. Stainless Sig 230
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:33 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

Would the stainless Sig 230 make a good personal defense weapon
in the next L.A. riot?  During the last riot I had the passenger
window broken out of my car by a mob and barely escaped without
being dragged away and beaten up.

On the other hand there was one fellow who was shot because he
showed a weapon while in his car to some assailants.  My sense
is that if you shot it you better use it.

Merlin
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Laser Sights - The State of the Art
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:04:00 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

scylax!root@uunet.UU.NET (Operator) writes:

# I like the concept of laser sights but if they are to be more than just 
# a gimmick, technology has to produce a much more rugged product, easy to
# calibrate without tools and with durable accuracy.  I hope it doesn't take
# long.

I think laser sights will be a lot more useful when gun makers offer
optional frames with the laser sight mounts built-in. It seems to me
that this would offer a much more compact and convienient package than a
add-on mount. It shouldn't have as many alignment problems and the
switch for the laser could be build right into the frame, say next to
and above the trigger guard or into the grip. Adding a mount in the
frame should only add a few dollars to the cost of the pistol and you
could either buy the pistol with the laser already installed or drop it
in later. This could make a great law enforcement duty weapon.


(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:21:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.13NOV199209012991
Organization: who knows

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu>, magnum@cs.umd.edu writes...
#			How am I doing?

Great!

# -- remain as is.

Preferred option

# -- discover or elect a new moderator.

NO!

# -- un-moderate the group, as Mr. Klausner has requested.

NO!

# -- suggest that an alt group be created, splitting us into moderated
#    and unmoderated forums.

A plausible alternative but not preferred since it would dilute the discussion.

#  From:        mailrus!gatech!unmvax!bbx!yenta!ben@uunet.UU.NET (Ben Klausner)
#  I am fed up with the moderator abusing his position to insert editorial
#  comments into postings. If he wants to make a comment, let him post it, like
#  anyone else.
#  I have exchanged a few notes with the nameless moderator, and he seems to
#  think that everyone here loves his style and wit.

I have no complaints.  I would think that this is a quick way for the
moderator to respond but maybe a separate posting could be a good compromise.
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:01:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttinews.1992Nov13.172122.28167
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <7dGH02Nl2aX.01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:
}In article <9211090626.AA13672@relay2.UU.NET>, m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY) writes:

}#I guarantee that the NRA sticker is used by the DC police as probable
}#cause to search your vehicle for contraband firearms.
}
}Is this really legal (as in upheld in court)??
}I knoiw they probably WOULD search you in any case, but could they make 
}it hold up in a court as probable cause, or will they have to "invent"
}something else (and we ALL know THAT doesn't happen, right??)??

As explained to me by an active LAPD officer, "probable cause" need only
exist in the mind of the officer on the scene.  It will likely be based on
something you know nothing about (e.g.:  He just got a radio bulletin
about a bank robber driving a getaway car of your make, model and color)
and he's not obliged to explain it to you.

I don't hang any unnecessary stickers or messages on my car.  With all the
jurisdictions in L.A. (I drive through four just going to work) you never
know who might be taking an interest or what their department policy is
that day.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:36 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Nov5.004254.3842@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#I know people who swear by nickel, chrome, or polished stainless
#guns. They claim they look bigger and meaner from the business
#end. Others like the current fad for matte black guns. I don't
#know, but I don't want the muzzle of any gun pointed at me. I'll
#admit that the larger the bore, the quicker I duck for cover.
#

A friend of mine, who is a cop, stated that his firends (cops) fell
into two catagories.  THis determined the finish of the weapon that
they carried; shiney or black.

1)  THose who, when they pulled their gun, wanted _noone_ to know it

		BLACK

2) Those who, when they pulled their gun, wanted EVERYONE to know it

		Stainless, Hard Chrome, etc

Bill	burge@qdeck.com

		(owner of Black guns)
From: mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu writes: (M.X. Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ontos
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:15 GMT


    Ontos, supposedly Greek for "The Thing", was supposed to be
    a highly mobile, lightly armoured, and fast vehicle to do
    shoot 'n scoop types of operations.  It was a small tracked
    vehicle which had not 4, but 6 recoilless rifles.  The crew
    had to leave the vehicle to reload :-).  I didn't know they
    used this thing in Vietnam.

    How do I know all this?  I had a model of the Ontos when I
    was a kid.
From: K111114%ALIJKU11.bitnet@GITVM1.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: the most frightening sound
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:09:18 GMT
Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center





    silence
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Used rifle wanted
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine


I'm posting this for a friend who's looking for a used rifle to rebuild. So
it doesn't need to be in great condition. What hes after is either an M1A or
one of the HK's. If any readers of this group have something you're interested
in parting with you can mail me direct and I'll pass it along as he doesn't
have a net connection.

-Steve
From: U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: carrying guns for self-defense
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

While reading thru this group for the first time and reading all of the
articles about people carrying guns for self-defense one question kept
on crossing my mind?  Do you people all have licenses to legally carry
guns or do you do it illegally?  I'm not saying I have anything against
carrying guns for self-defense but I would be interested in replies
because I have often thought about carrying a handgun for self-defense.

Thanks in advance for you replies!

Jason
From: dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Doug P Forbush)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Flechette
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:56 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee


 rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randolph Sopicki) writes
#I need some help settling a question we have.
#During Vietnam there was a fletchette type of weapon or round.
#I contend it was a paarticular round that was made for the M79 for the
#recoiless and other systems. My running mate says it there was a
#"fletchette weapon."

One flechette weapon used was an anti-personnel flechette round fired
by the Sheridan tank.  Yes, it's a very large round with very many
metal 'darts'.  I served with an infantry unit that employed the Sheridan 
and still have my 'bush hat' complete with several of these flechettes 
as hatband ornamentation. 




-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug P. Forbush               dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AK-47 Question
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:38 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <9210231626.AA07068@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#
##1) can an AK-47 shoot a bullet, any kind of bullet, through a "foot of steel"?
#
#The moderator pretty much answered this one - nope.
#
#Reminds me of the old '.357 Magnum/.44 Magnum/12ga. slug through the
#engine block' legend...

I have a pet theory about that one- I suspect that it started out as
the (true) statement that a high-powered round can penetrate a CINDER
block, and that this got corrupted into CYLINDER block.  Just a guess.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:21:37 GMT
Organization: Amoco

I have not been reading this newsgroup long, but I have read other moderated
newsgroups. The moderators all have different styles, but the thing they have in 
common is their desire to help the traffic move. They do much as you have done:
redirecting posts, denying posts, confirming post, and ADDING COMMENTS.
I find your few comments insightful (sp.). Please continue as you have been doing.
If Ben Klausner does not like the way you moderate, then let him start alt.guns, or 
take it to news.* for discussion there. I think you have done the right thing in letting this get aired; I also think it shouldn't air too long - it stinks.
---
TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore 
      Internet: wbmoore@hou.amoco.com

..SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III again
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:21 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <199211041808.AA07031@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#Some time ago, Christopher posted:
#
##From: CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Christopher L Frame)
##Subject: Re: Class III???
##...
##	To purchase a full auto weapon as a non-dealer you pay a $200 federal
##tax to the BATF and get a background check (pictures, prints, police, etc). 
##The tax is a one time tax for EACH full auto firearm you purchase.  ...
#
#My question is that can I pay the $200 federal tax to the BATF and 
#get a permit to convert my rifle into a full auto or select fire one?
#If not, are there any legal ways to do that? Thanks.

No, not currently. All such legal conversions to full auto were
outlawed for individuals in May 1986. Several recent Circuit Court
decisions have suggested that this ban may be untenable under 
NFA <the NFA was written as registration to facilitate collection
of a tax, if there is no tax being collected, then there is no 
authority under the NFA>. However, I don't think you want to be
a test case. Do you?

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .44 question?
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:25:25 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Nov5.151101.5548@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> srhineha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rhinehart) writes:
#
#     Question:
#
#     Is there any company that sell .44 magnum shells with full metal jackets?
#     I have called all of the local shops and they say that nobody makes it.

I'd be surprised if this is true unless no one sells factory ammo
for Metalic Silhouette shooting. I must confess that offhand
I can't recall anyone selling the ammo (not that I've actively
ever sought it either mind you :-).

#     I know you can get the bullets if you reload yourself (Shotgun News).

Definitely. I have obtained full metal jacket bullets for .357,
.41 mag, and .44 mag. I actually have some old Norma .44 full
metal jacket bullets probably made back in the 60's or early 70's. The
jacket on these is silver in color. I'm not sure if the jacket
is steel or plated. I'll try a magnet on them tonight if I remember
& can locate them. The more recent FMJ (truncated design) bullets I 
obtained were a bulk buy Hornady (i.e. the dealer buys them 
by the barrel and resells them in 100 or 500 bullet bags), if
memory serves. Most often I see these FMJ TMC bullets at gun shows 
like the OGCA show at the IX center in Cleveland.
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A "must" for the reloading bench
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:14 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University


  My two cents on whether an intertial bullet-puller is 
economically justifiable - I think that some people are looking
at this with too narrow a view.  The bullet-puller doesn't have 
to produce savings by itself to cover its entire cost *if* it
is a desirable part of a total operation (reloading) which does
have economical justification.

  I consider the ease of use, time-savings, etc. of the inertial
bullet-puller to improve the entire reloading operation sufficiently
so that even if the monetary value of the components "rescued" by the 
bullet puller do not cover the cost of the the bullet puller it is 
still economically justified with respect to the entire reloading
operation.

  As far as safety considerations, I've only used to to pull apart
rounds which I've messed up in reloading (usually bullet seating depth
errors.)  In perhaps a hundred of these, I've never had any trouble.
I've never used it with explosive bullets, and I'll certainly remember
the posting about the danger of using it with rounds misfired rounds
with a dented primer.  I always use eye protection when doing things
like this.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ