From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Private Education in Pakistan
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:17:53 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <8253@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.023349.10687@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
>
>>                              It's so frustrating to try 
>>discussing with you. You just have a perception of what you
>>consider a fact and your whole purpose in a discussion is
>>to try to prove that you're right. Never have I seen you
>>make even a semi-conscious effort to understand anything
>>beyond your preconceived ideas. The approach you take puts
>>serious limitations on your ability to engage in a 
>>_sincere_ discussion.
>
>
>What a coincidence!  I have exactly the same feelings about you,:-).

A coincidence indeed :) I think you're kidding here. I don't doubt 
that it is frustrating for you to discuss something with me... is
it possible that reasons are different (Hey Mansoor.. this one's yours :) )

>Nadeem, I would very much like to be your friend and, for a while,
>I think I even was.  We can teach other a lot.  But we are the
                ^^^
I still think I am your friend... too bad you aren't any more...

>prisoners of our own ethnicities.  Communication is a way around
>that, but a Pakistani upbringing has taught us to take disagreement
>as a personal insult and that makes for an explosive mix.  In a
>way, our animosity mirrors the Sindhi-muhajir conflict back home.
>From your vantage, I represent the immigrant who has done better by
>exploiting the native.  From my side, you represent the native who
>denies the immigrant his due out of spite and senseless rage.
>Both positions are only partially correct and neither is completely
>justified.  Happiness is in the middle ground.

I do not identify myself as a Sindhi or for that matter anything else.
But I sure have sympathy for the people because they have been through
hell during Zia's period. I do not have any less sympathy for the 
Siraiki speaking people who are protesting against settlement of Biharis
in their area. I can and do relate with every oppression on the face of
earth. My up-bringing, no matter how much class-less :) :), was pretty
cool. I am not biased against people because of the language they speak
or because of the religion they follow. Fact of the matter is that I
don't dislike any human being. I feel sorry for some people though...
because I think those who do such crimes against human beings are sick.
I don't hate them... I dislike the fact that such negative feelings exist
in them. 

At the same time, I consider consciously inhibiting one's thinking process
as stupid. If "Muhajirs" identify themselves as people who are essentially
in conflict with me (as they consider me a part of the Sindhi-speaking
community), I have to treat them as people who think that way about me.
I am not concerned why they consider me a part of Sindhi-speaking people.
I don't think my outrage for what native Sindians are going through is a good
enough reason. Any concentious human being would feel the same way. I feel
equally disgusted by the way rural Punjab is being treated these days. I
have sympathy for african americans as well as native indians... same for
the blacks in South Africa and the aborigines of Australia. I have my 
limitations. I don't know so much about the problems the rest of the world
is facing. I believe I have a good understanding of issues relevant to Pakistan.
I am more in a position to identify and possibly modify the related parameters.
If you recall, I had expressed my disgust for the killings of Hindus in 
Pakistan. I'm not a Hindu myself... unlike Naveed Memon, even my ancestors 
weren't Hindus :) I have even tried to protect zamindars at a time. You know
better that I'm no feudal lord. I have protected Islam a few times... and 
at others I have attacked fanatics. I had objected your derogatory words
about Benazir Bhutto, even though I don't have anything to do with her
party... I have attacked landlords and waderas too a few time. I have posted
Faiz's poems on the net... even though I don't identify myself as a communist.

What I refuse to give in to is the principle that if you are unbiased you
aught to attack both sides of the conflict. In the Sindhi-"Muhajir" conflict
I consider "Muhajirs" on the wrong side. This is not to imply that "Muhajirs"
aught to be blamed for giving in to the temptations of the time... not even
to suggest that they be completely absolved. It is just to acknowledge that
the way things happenned was/is an injustice to the natives. I don't think
anyone needs to be punished or something. I only believe that justice needs
to be done. Those who come in the way of justice will unfortunately be hurt
in the same way as some people get hurt in every revolution. I don't blame
criminals for what they do, because it is their state of mind that makes them
do those things, but I will still support incarcerating them to stop them
from causing any more injustice.

>
>I did not make up those stories about Asif.  If the
>courts cannot convict him on the evidence, I wish him freedom
>and happiness.  He isn't all bad, I am sure.  At least you should
>acknowledge he isn't all good.  I am not making up those stories
>about him.  His behaviour at AKU in 1987 will not be forgotten by
>any who had to deal with him, such as several of my former
>classmates, including Jamal Mubarak, a former scp regular.  If
>you are serious, I can give you addresses of several people
>currently in the US who would corroborate what I have told you.  As
>for the eviction of that poor family, why don't you write them
>at 22-A Sunset Street, Defence Society Phase II, Karachi 75500,
>Pakistan, and check the story out for yourself ?
>

No need to go through the trouble of giving addresses and stuff. That
hardly makes any difference. People blinded by nationalistic slogans
can easily lie about anything. As a friend of mine used to say "jhoot
bolnay main kiya hai" :) I can ask a few friends and they can lie for
me. BTW, what is Jamal Mubarak doing these days. I saw his yes vote
for rec.arts.poems.urdu but haven't seen him around for some time...

I don't know about the poor family, man!! When I went to Karachi in '91,
the brain-washed state I saw Karachiites in, I wouldn't have been
surprised even if all people would have come on streets naked on Altaf's
call. I already mentioned the case when hundreds of thousands of people
came as eye-witnesses because Altaf bhai asked all "Muhajirs" to reach
the police stations. I don't remember if it was Najeeb's murder or some
other case.

And you were asking Jawad how some individual can have influence on a
society... how about Altaf's example... even today I see people on the
net showing their sympathy for him. But then, he was hardly an individual.
Thanks to Gen. Zia, the brain :) behind MQM.

>
>-- 

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7527  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian