HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Subject: Re: just a point of view
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:14:13 GMT

In article <C02q65.M31@ens-lyon.fr> merrheim@ens-lyon.fr writes:
>When Mr Mitterand decided to go to Sarajevo, he just said that it was a private visit.

Sarajevo is not in Yugoslavia. Bosnia is not under any sanctions.

>B.Spassky was authorized by the french government to play against Fischer

Was he? We were wondering what the French position was, but we couldn't get
any info in the US or on this net. Can you say something more?

> because
>the match was not organized by the FIDE, so it was a private match.

That would be utterly ridiculous. If it had been organized by FIDE, they
would have said that it was legal because it was organized by FIDE, whose
member France is.

> I dont think
>that the UNO EMBARGO deal with tourism in yougoslavia. I think that everybody is 
>free to go to Yougoslavia for a private trip and to do what he wants to do.

Right as far as I know (although some restrictions might exist). But this was
clearly not a private affair.

Note that nobody condemns Fischer for playing skittles with Gligoric in 
Belgrade - which WAS pretty much a private affair (no money, no contracts, no
press acreditations...)

>
>It is possible in France to buy the "Informator" Revue . Is it a violation of the embargo ? I think it is. Is it possible to buy this revue in the USA ?

This has been discussed a lot in this newsgroup. Seems that things are legal
as far as we have traced them. 

	Sven
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 25 Dec 1992 16:20:47 CST
From: Howard Wachtel <U13054@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Odd chess position (not about Yugoslavia
 <1992Dec23.120510.617@uoft02.utoledo.edu> <PHR.92Dec23124354@napa.telebit.com>
 <1992Dec24.001423.23983@pony.Ingres.COM>
 <1992Dec24.153554.629@uoft02.utoledo.edu>

>>>    > Obligatory chess question:  Does there exist a chess position in
>>>    > which Black has enough material to mate White in theory, but Black
>>>    > cannot mate White even with White's cooperation, while on the other
>>>    > hand White can mate Black without Black's cooperation?
>>>
>>>    No. If it can be proven that black cannot mate white even with white's
>>>    cooperation, then it is impossible in theory for black to mate white.
>>>
>> Correct.  For example, in the following position Black has enough material
>> to mate White, but Black cannot mate White even with White's cooperation:
>>
>> - - - - k - - -
>> - - - - - - - -    Using the "Winslow" notation for Pawns: o is BP, O is WP
>> - o - o - o - o
>> o O o O o O o O
>> O - O - O - O -
>> - - - - - - - -
>> - - - - K - - -
>> - - - - - - - -
>>
>> Now to find a position where White has a forced win... that's another story.
>> Ugh!

>could mate. (So to speak.) Interesting problem. Any other solutions?

   The above is not a "solution" to the original problem as posed since
White cannot checkmate Black.  (But it would be interesting to see what
would happen if the above occurred in a blitz game and someone's flag
fell.)  If stalemates are allowed, there should be many possible solutions,
such as:

- - - - R b k r
- - - - O - - o
- - - - O K - O
- - - - - - - -       (O = White pawn, o = Black pawn)
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

   Here although Black has mating material, he cannot possibly checkmate
White because White's next move will either checkmate or stalemate Black.

________________________________________________________________
Howard K. Wachtel              University of Illinois at Chicago
U13054@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU        Phone (312) 975-7970
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
From: chris@kasey.umkc.edu (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: 24 Dec 1992 18:06:38 GMT
Reply-To: chris@kasey.umkc.edu (Christopher Mitchell)
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
NNTP-Posting-Host: kasey.umkc.edu


In article <1992Dec21.101710.587@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.045954.5444@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
>> Nonsense. Fischer wasn't indicted for playing chess, but for doing business.
>
>What business was that...was it:
>
>1. Operating a 7-11?
>2. Selling US passports?
>3. Playing Chess?

Try staying in Yugoslavian hotels...travelling...eating...etc.  Not to mention
cashing in on a 3.5 million dollar prize within the boundaries of and taxed
by Yugoslavia.

Though I view Bobby Fischer as somewhat of an American asset and though I don't
believe that he should spend a minute in jail (though he could well afford the
maximum fine), he did violate a U.S. law (no matter how silly you may believe
it).  Nowhere is it written in the U.S. Constitution that chess players are
exempt.  

Chris
--
|                      |
| Chris Mitchell       | Academic Computing Services
| chris@kasey.umkc.edu | University of Missouri - Kansas City
|                      |
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: mem@world.std.com (Jeff Lesser)
Subject: Re: A question for DMC
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:57:48 GMT

pmbarlow@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Pete Barlow... 'The Candy Guru') writes:

[stuff deleted]

>Just to be on the safe side, I know nothing about the 1st K-K match, except
>that Kasparov won it, and I know very little about Fischer's tournament
>history, except that he won 90% of his games.

>> DMC

>Hey, I'm just being calm about all this.  Don't take any of this personal.

>TCG, pb.


Actually, the first match was discontinued with Karpov (not Kasparov)
leading 5-3, with many draws.  Earlier in the match, Karpov had led 5-0.
From: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Larry Loen)
Subject: Computer-readable games & compositions & dumbing down CM3000
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:49:35 GMT
Reply-To: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester
Keywords: computer notation

I am a "woodpusher", second class.  Never been rated, but would probably come out
between USCF 1400 and 1600 based on my informal games with rated players.

I love composed problems and good games, though.  Even though the FAQ looks
down on it a bit, I bought CM3000 because it is available and because I have
a 486/20 to run it on.  So far, it seems plenty strong for me.

It seems to have pretty good facilities for importing games, with commentary,
and composed positions in a couple of formats.  If I am ever to improve, the
ability to "run" variations in commentary seems like a worthwhile thing.  Besides,
it is fun.

The FAQ does not mention it, so here goes:  Is there a source for classic games
and various forms of chess problems (White to mate in 2, etc.)?  I am not a
fanatic about it, so I don't want to spend $300 on an exhaustive data base.  I'd
rather something either public domain or more in the range of costs of a good
chess book or two, like I already own.  

PS, how does one "dumb down" a typical chess program so that it plays at a known
rating?  I'd love to downgrade CM3000 down to about a 1500 level so I could
have a fairer chance of competing.


-- 
   Larry W. Loen        |  My Opinions are decidedly my own, so please
                        |  do not attribute them to my employer
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com (Steven J. Edwards)
Subject: Important message for new chess programmers
Reply-To: sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com
Organization: Bull HN, Worldwide Information Systems, Billerica, Mass., USA
Distribution: rec
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:31:50

It seems that the newsgroup has recently seen more than the usual
number of posts by new or potential chess programmers.  Therefore, I
am posting, once again, the ICCA notice:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
ICCA: International Computer Chess Association

Revised: 1992.12.30

The ICCA (International Computer Chess Association) is a world wide
group founded in the 1970s for the purpose of discussion and
advancement of computer chess activities.  Membership is open to all
who have a sincere interest in the development of computer chess.  A
membership includes a subscription to a technical research quarterly,
the English language _ICCA Journal_.  The _Journal_ contains research
articles, abstracts, reviews, conference announcements, tournament
news, current computer chess ratings, FIDE news relating to computer
chess, editorials, and an occasional cartoon.  It is non-commercial
and has about sixty pages per issue.  Some back issues are also
available.

There are currently about 600 members which probably include all of
the active researchers and program authors in the field.

For United States and Canadian members, the annual membership fee (for
1992) is US$30.  Readers in other locations pay (for 1992) Hfl.
50.-- (or the equivalent).  All subcription orders are to be sent to:

	ICCA Europe
	c/o Prof. dr. H. J. van den Herik
	PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastrict
	The Netherlands

The ICCA requests that those paying with other than US$ or Hfl. add an
extra 20% to cover bank fees and conversion costs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[I don't know what the 1993 rates are, but I personally always add an
extra few dollars above the prior rate, just to be sure.  -- sje]

 [The above opinions expressed are my own; not necessarily held by others.]
      == Steven J. Edwards           Bull HN Information Systems Inc. ==
      == (508) 294-3484              300 Concord Road         MS 820A ==
      == sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com     Billerica, MA 01821          USA ==
"That Government which Governs the Least, Governs Best." -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: pope@gold.kpc.com (John Pope)
Subject: Re: KnightStalker Demo
Organization: /nfs/gold/u/home/pope/.organization
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:02:34 GMT

(Benjamin Lin) writes:
>   Also, is there a way to convert ascii games into .cbf format w/o
>   using Chess Base?

Yes - in fact the Chessbase program itself does not do this
conversion. John Nunn's ASCII ChessReader utility does, but
costs $60 (it's available from the Chessbase people).

--
John Pope
pope@kpc.com
Kubota Pacific Computers, Inc.
(408) 987-3362
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ed@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.m.hummel)
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:07:49 GMT

dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>There have been practicing lawyers who have entered this debate,
>do any of them have exapmles of the US trying people for crimes
>committed overseas.

Wasn't Noriega tried and convicted of crimes he committed while
he was overseas?  (Some obvious differences are that he wasn't a US
citizen and that the crimes were within the US.)

My worthless opinion is that the US claim to jurisdiction in the
Fischer case is not a clear cut black and white argument.  I expect
that Fischer received legal advice that the US claim could be
challenged (probably on grounds similar to those being raised 
here.)  The indictment and the issuance of a warrant does indicate
that there are people (including lawyers) who believe a crime may
have been committed.

Maybe the courts will get an opportunity to decide.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:54:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.101710.587@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.045954.5444@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
>
>Please go study your history.

I stand firmly behind what I have said. If you disagree, be specific.

>> 
>> Nonsense. Fischer wasn't indicted for playing chess, but for doing business.
>
>What business was that...was it:
>
>1. Operating a 7-11?
>2. Selling US passports?
>3. Playing Chess?
>
You obviously don't understand the difference between playing chess and doing
business playing chess. Are you as hard-headed in the following examples:

Difference between a Public School teacher TEACHING his own kid his religious
beliefs at home and the same person TEACHING the students at school the same
beliefs?

A prostitute HAVING SEX with her boyfriend/husband (or do you think prostitutes
can't have them?) and the same person HAVING SEX for business?

A soldier KILLING the enemy at the battlefield and the same person coming home
and KILLING his wife?

A person RECORDING a TV program for personal use and the same person RECORDING
the same TV program and selling copies?

A person LENDING money to their buddy and a bank LENDING money to its Visa card
holders?

None of these is an exact analogy, but all should give you a hint that what
Fischer did cannot be called simply 'playing chess'.

	Sven
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: A game of chess with dmc!?
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:08:12 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec31.072953.19625@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
> In article <19028@mindlink.bc.ca> Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper) writes:
>>This should be a fun tournament.  Your play!
>>
>>[Sven - wait your turn].
> 
> Well, in the meantime I read dmc's response to this (and so on) and it seems
> that my turn won't come because he'll never make a move.
> 
> Interesting - he is just like Fischer, except for a minor :-) difference that
> he lacks the chess talent...
> 
> 	Sven
> 

Back it up if you are man enough. Lose pays plane fare.

It'll never happen because your fear your lack of ability.

Won't either of you grow some testicles?



Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:57:24 GMT

In article <92363.133501IO10928@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO10928@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (ABHAY) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.052513.14461@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu
>(sven  hauptfeld) says:
>
>>This is really idiotic. Do you think that government having jurisdiction over
>>its people mean that those people are its property? And do you think that a US
>>citizen who kills somebody in another country would be immune of a trial by a
>>US court?
>
>YES! If the person killed is not an american, then he can't be tried in
>U.S. He can be tried in that foreign country, if he is caught there or if
>  he is convicted and that country has extradiction treaty with U.S.!!!
>( U.S. doesn't have Extradiction treaty with Yugo.)
>
>>You must be either kidding or totally ignorant.
>I don't think so Sven!
>>        Sven
>Abhay

Why would I take your word at face value? Can you give references (specific
laws or court precedents)? 

I would really be surprised if the US works the way you say. I certainly know
that a Danish truck driver who causes an accident in which people get killed on
a Yugoslav road CAN be tried in Denmark - I know of such a case, where Denmark
demanded extradiction but Yugoslavia refused (he would be a lot better off 
under Danish law - but he would stand trial).

But than, the US are on another planet in many respects, so maybe you are 
right. But you'd have to give me some substantial evidence.

	Sven

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: regan@netcom.com (NEIL REGAN)
Subject: Chess in Palo Alto
Summary: THERE IS CHESS IN P.A.
Keywords: chessclubs
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 06:16:43 GMT


One of the strongest chess clubs in California is located in Palo Alto
they are located at   3800 MIDDLEFIELD ROAD and meet in the Recreation
Center.  The chess club is ran by Richard Koepecke and Mike Arne they
meet on Tuesdays around 7 pm - 11:30. The specialty of the club is
Blitz which they hold Tournaments that are WBCA rated once a Month.
Maybe twice a year they hold Rated tournaments except on occasional
Saturdays & Sundays they hold weekend tourneys maybe 2-4 times a year
usually supported by Randy-Mont-Reynaud the local resident that holds
control of the center.

                           Neil Regan
                           (fremont,california)
:
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ja@uunet!ctbilbo (Joseph Aronovich)
Subject: Re: this has got to stop
Organization: Communications Technology Systems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1993 02:04:49 GMT
Followup-To: Any DMC related garbage

In article <1993Jan1.132548.776@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <1hvtvbINNgti@agate.berkeley.edu>, jeff@emily10.Berkeley.EDU (Jeffrey C. Ely) writes:
>> 
>> Please, everybody just ignore this asshole. The inference people fail to make 
>> which keeps this guy around is that *only an idiot* would behave this way!  
>> {Bunch Deleted}
>> 
>> Jeffrey Ely
>> 
>
>Jeff, you go first.
> "by KNOW_IT_ALL_BETTER_THEN_Jeffrey_Ely"   ooooophhhh
To all of U, who is seak and tired of reading any subject in r.g.c
without Mr. "KNOW_IT_ALL_BETTER_THEN_[ who cares ]" jumping in to PREACH.
  I will recommend a different method of getting rid of this verbose jerk:
let us, all concerned readers, send an e-mail to his PostMaster complainning,
so he will stop polluting the net. It costs a lot of money
to provide the audience for this DMC guy (as far as I am concerned
he is chicken enough not to say his real name. I am sure DMC is
scared to state his real name, because he is afraid that it can
bite him in the future).
Sorry, just could not keep my mouse shut any longer.
This is my $1.02.
Joseph Aronovich.
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:02:05 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1741@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson) writes:
> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
> : 
> : It is 'ridiculous' because it is a limit on one's work/art/love. Christ.
> : If an American were to write a book of poems entitled--
> : 
> : "Suffering of the Serbs" (or whatever ethnic group you fill in) and sold
> : copies of it outside of the FS match, would the State department be calling
> : for blood? Tell us Sven, would you be as in favor of locking them up?
> : 
> : And, if not, please explain how what that person did would be any different
> : than what Fischer did.
> : 
> : (This should be good!) 
> 
> 
> I'm not in favor of locking Fischer up, but I do think that what
> he did was contemptible.  From what I understand, the Serbs 
> considered the match something of a propaganda coup, and 
> Fischer surely knew that, just as surely as he knew of the
> attrocities his sponsors were committing.  He shouldn't be 
> prosecuted, but he should be ashamed.
> It's hard to see, by the way, how the sanctions were a limit
> on Fischer's ability to play chess.  The match could just as
> easily have been played elsewhere.
> 
> Bill
> 

True, just like to Soviets used to insist that important cultural and
propoganda events take place within countries under their control.

The exception was, of course, in non-competitive events where the Soviets got
to show off their 'artistic' achievements, like with their ballet companies.

Prohibiting the tournament from taking place in ANY country is not much
different than saying:

"All Americans who engage in championship tournaments MUST play only in
Washington, D.C.."

Both are examples of the U.S. governemnt viewing the tournament, and players,
as being under its control.

Personally, I think Jane Fonda playing on North Vietnamese anti-aircraft guns
which killed OUR people was far worse than what FIscher did. However, unless
she sold secrets to the enemy, or something similar, I do not believe either
she or Fischer committed a crime against the US.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Fischer indicted
From: nason@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 21 Dec 92 08:45:50 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: levin

> In article <1992Dec16.023156.27727@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>> The AP wire referred to Fischer's recent match againt 'the Russian
>> Boris Spassky'.  Sure, we all know he was from the USSR, but isn't he a
>> French citizen now?  Therefore wouldn't it be technically incorrect to
>> refer to Spassky as Russian?
> 
> 

The media will always refer to Spassky as a Russian, and Fischer an American,
regardless of his citizenship.  There is a resonable probability that Fischer
may apply for citizenship in some European country.  Can we imagine him being
called the Serbian Grandmaster Fischer or the German Grandmaster Fischer???

-- 
My opinions are my own and not those of my company.  
Free advice is worth its cost.  
--- John M. Nason - NA9U ---|--------------------------------------------|
Inland Steel Company        |  -- nason@pa881a.inland.com                |
Process Automation Dept.    |  -- Fax:   219-399-7856                    |
			    |  -- Voice: 219-399-2450                    |
----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
From: rick.franks@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Rick Franks) 
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: TOM LEE
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, (313)663-4173, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Reply-To: rick.franks@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Rick Franks) 

 Hee hee haa haa, Did everyone see the file discription uploaded to the
BBS by someone uploading a chess game? It said to play chess with the
computer instead of playing Tom Lee and lossing!! Boy do they have that
right or what??
---
 . Cam-Mail . The Chess Board BBS 803-236-7711 : Myrtle Beach, SC
                                                                                    
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: frants@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Leonid Frants)
Subject: Re: Chess in Palo Alto---where is it?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:38:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.090120.9241@parc.xerox.com> coombs@ivan.uucp () writes:
>Can anyone recommend a good place to find chess in Palo Alto?  The
>tournament scene seems barren compared to Boston, but I can't believe
>that people aren't playing chess out here.  Or is it that there are
>just so many more jobs?
>
>--Jim
>
>P.S.: headers are bogus, use coombs@parc.xerox.com

Once again I'd like to remind the people about the Chess Academy of
Palo Alto - a great place to play chess run by a chess 'fanatic'
Joseph. It is both a club and a school and it seems to be open until
the noone can play chess anymore. The address is 560 Oxford Ave., Palo
Alto.

Phone Number is: (415) 494-8723

Enjoy your time there.

Leonid.