HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cnl@bnr.ca (Christopher Larmour)
Subject: Re: ReL Senna and Me...
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:39:33 GMT

shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:

: But developing my theory of Senna's ice cold tactical brain, I would
: say that NOTHING he could have done was more likely to be taken as an
: insult by Mansell than to be waved past, having demonstarbly failed
: to barge past. IMHO Senna was once again attempting to outpsych
: Mansell. And probably succeeding.

I have to say I think your right Leo. I would also note the remarks
from Ron Dennis about "the emotional element in Williams", which, when
put to NM, resulted in a fairly brusque retort.... The way I see it,
AS is using all his considerable skills both on and off the track
to unsettle NM by influencing his surroundings. As long as he stops
that bloody stupid weaving nonsense, best of luck to him! It sort of
reminds me of those WCW wrestlers trying to freak each other out!

BTW, the video of the off at Hockenheim shows AS putting a big wiggle
on his tail end just before he starts to turn in - classic piece of 
late braking.    



Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ldahlmey@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Lothar Dahlmeyer)
Subject: FYI - F1 points
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:09:58 GMT

F 1 Standings as of 27-jul-1992
(Albuquerque Journal)

1.	Nigel Mansell		Williams-Renault	 86
2.	Riccardo Patrese	Williams-Renault	 40
3.	Michael Schumacher	Benetton-Ford		 33
4.	Ayrton Senna		McLaren-Honda		 24
5.	Gerhard Berger		McLaren-Honda		 20

6.	Martin Brundle		Benetton-Ford		 16 
7.	Jean Alesi		Ferrari			 13 
8.	Mika Hakkinen		Lotus-Ford		  5
9.	Michele Alboreto	Footwork-Mugen		  5
10.	Andrea de Cesaris	Tyrrell-Ilmor		  4

11.	Erik Comas		Ligier-Renault		  4
12.	Karl Wendlinger		March-Ilmor		  3
13.	Ivan Capelli		Ferrari			  2
14.	Pierluigi Martini	Dallara-Ferrari		  2
14.	Johnny Herbert		Lotus-Ford		  2

16.	Bertrand Gachot		Venturi-Lamborghini	  1

-- 
            /MMMMMMMMMMM\             | ldahlmey@zia.aoc.nrao.edu 
          {|  /\  ~  /\  |}           | Lothar Dahlmeyer  
______nnnn_|_|_@|   |_@|_|_nnnn_______| National Radio Astronomy Observatory
      UUUU       \_/       UUUU       | Socorro, New Mexico, 87801
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bulkes@mr.med.ge.com (Cherik Bulkes 4-6434 MR Sys)
Subject: Re: F-Ford carb problem
Summary: fuel pickup in downdraft carbs
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:23:40 GMT

Gary,
 
>you wrote: under hard braking you're sucking air rather than fuel.

This generally does not happen as long as the fluid level in the
float chamber is more than half heigh. Picture a square and draw
two diagonals in it. The fuel pickup is in the lower triangle,
and the diagonals depict hypothetical fuel levels (deccel/accel) in
a chamber with the level at half height. In theory the level could
be vertical (now you're sucking air!), but with a level higher
than half this won't happen.

So, no air, but the fluid column inside the jet tube is changing
potentially if not centered, thus changing the a/f ratio. 


      chamber:
        ----
       |\  /|
       | \/ |
       | /\ |
       |/**\| <--- pickup in lower triangle
       -----


- Cherik 

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mah@DIALix.oz.au (Marcus Hayes)
Subject: F1 93 predictions
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 02:04:38 GMT

These are my predictions for some of next years F1 lineup :

Williams-Renault
	Mansell
	Prost
Mclaren-BMW/Mclaren-Peugeot
	Berger
	? (Brundle ?)
Ferrari
	Senna
	Alesi/Patrese
Bennetton-Ford
	Schumacher
	Unser Jr./Patrese
Lotus-Ford
	Andretti
	Hakkinen/Herbert

Schumacher could go to Mclaren (I don't know why, but it is
rumoured).  This would mean that Brundle would stay at
Benneton, esp. if he keeps going the way he is.

Anyway, this is my A$0.02 worth.

Anthony Doig (The user of other peoples accounts),
Perth, Western Australia

E-Mail : mah@Dialix.oz.au (for now, anyway)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on German GP
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:00:48 GMT

In article <199207272231.AA18789@ashley.cs.widener.edu>, dxandy@cs.widener.edu
(Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS) writes:
|>   Did anyone else notice that Senna waved Mansell by immediately after
|>  Mansell missed the chicane.  Maybe Senna thought that Mansell would be
|>  disqualified for 'entering the track at a point other than the point
|>  at which he left' or perhaps for touching a cone.  Does anyone know if
|>  a protest was filed or if FISA considered penalising Mansell?

Nope, I didn't see Senna waiving Mansell by, I don't have a tape, nor even
a video ...  At any rate, I wondered about a possible disqualification
myself. Motorsport aktuell, the (Swiss) motorsport paper, say in their
race report:
  "Mansells Abkuerzer hatte keine Konsequenzen:  Er hatte dadurch keinen
  Boden gewonnen, niemand erhob Einspruch."

(Almost literal) translation:
  "Mansell's shortcut did not have any consequences:  He did not gain
   any ground, and nobody raised any objections."


|>    I heard that Senna *has* signed for Ferrari.  I think this is a big
|>  mistake.  McLaren is on the verge of getting their chassis together.
|>  [ ... ]
|>    I don't see Ferrari suddenly producing a championship winning car
|>  next season, but I can see McLaren pulling up their socks and getting
|>  on terms with the Williams.

I think it's still a rumor that Senna has signed.  However, Niki Lauda is
apparently negotiating with Senna.  Lauda is also said to be in favor of
signing John Barnard as a designer.  (For what it's worth, Motorsport
aktuell claims that Lauda said "Barnard is Ferrari's only choice".)
Still, I seriously doubt that Barnard will have a car ready in time for
the 1993 season.  In other words, I agree with Andrew that Ferrari is not
likely to pull a championship winning car out of their sleeves for next
year.  And Harvey Postlethwaite is likely to leave Ferrari prematurely
as he apparently didn't get along with John Barnard the last time they
were working for Ferrari.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Bush/Unser Sr.? (was Re: If Patrese had passed Senna)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:25:59 GMT

In article <831e03aW46U800@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> nxn@uts.amdahl.com 
(David J. Nixon) writes:
>My picks for 1993 team/engine/driver combos:
[...]
>Ferrari/Ferrari		Senna/Quayle

So *that's* the excuse Bush will use when he dumps Quayle at the
convention:

"And Dan, we're all so proud of the fine job he's done as Vice
President, Dan's going over to Europe, going to represent the US
in that F1 thing, those auto races over there...."

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR news (7/21)
From: gck@hector.uucp (24641-kemmerling)
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:52:06 +1000
Summary: test

	 Z[?1;11c
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:45:31 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Jul22.180045.13397@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.165332.5121@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
> >Robby Gordon: Drives IMSA for Jack Roush, who Yates is of course closely
> >associated with.  Looked good with the GOBs at Daytona a couple of
> >years ago.
> >
> IndyCars is (are) at Cleveland that weekend.  :-(
> 
> Hey - what about old Hershel?!  Remember, he holds a record number of
> wins at Riverside.
> 
> But I really agree that Dorsey should be given the ride.
> 
> -c'ball-
> 


test  
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dougw@grebyn.com (Doug Worthington)
Subject: Re: Whats Mario's excuse this time?
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:47:50 GMT

>
>for all those who seem to enjoy nitpicking about race car drivers
>peronalities.  IMO Michael Andretti is one of the most talented
>drivers running.  He is definitely headed for F1 where his aggressiveness
>will be a big plus.  I would be willing to bet that all the Cart drivers
>have enormous respect for him.  I doubt they place much importance
>on his personality.  Polite drivers are losers.
>
>With respect to the pit incident, Michael was on the gas hard, like
>anyone else would be.  You get your fuel and tires and drop the
>hammer.  Rahal swung very wide forcing Michael to go for it or brake.
>Did I say brake...come on.. this is balls to the wall racing.
>
>As far as Mario goes..maybe age his catching up to him.  Maybe he
>misjudged the situation.  Maybe his brakes gave out.  Maybe Al Jr.
>braked sooner.  Maybe, maybe, maybe.  I doubt seriously he punted
>Al on purpose.  If it was his fault and he doesn't apolgize, fine
>with me.  Some would, some wouldn't.  This is not a polite sport.
>This is balls to the wall bonzai stuff with heart rates of 180+ and
>adrenlin and split second reactions and huge stakes.  Allow people
>under these circumstances to have their faults.  Enjoy the incredible
>entertainment they provide us.  Take the personality shit to rec.soaps.
>
>--Terry

	Hey Terry, people and lives are at stake when racing gets above
30 miles an hour.  It's people like you, and your approach to racing that
gets people hurt.  Michael and his currently inept father, have been in
more problems over the years, that are their own fault, then anybody else.
If your race cars and you feel comfortable when somebody does something
stupid next to you, and you say to yourself, "this is balls to the walls
racing no problem" then you might not be around to see to many more
races.  If you don't race then I wont take any of your comments
seriously.

dougw
dougw@grebyn.com 


>
>                 REC.AUTOS.RACING.SOAPS
From: rsv@gdwb.oz.au (Roger Virgo)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Braking Distances
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:43:15 GMT

My point has been missed,
I agree F1 should be a place for automotive technical developement, all I
am suggesting is that the set of rules or formula be modifyed to enable cars
of equal performance to pass each other. Even 12 metre sailing boats are 
built to a set of rules.

Putting limitations on brakes is no different to haveing a maximum tyre width
or an engine displacement of 3500cc. 
Some teams will always be able to exploit the given rules through technical  
developement and innovation to a greater degree than others.

If braking distances could be increased it would give cars and drivers of
similar performance a greater distance to actually pull along side before
turning into a corner.

Roger and out.

PS. I have actually sailed both fireballs and GP14 in the UK.
kh
From: rsv@gdwb.oz.au (Roger Virgo)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Braking Distances
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:26:45 GMT

F1 braking distances.

If I recall correctly there was some discussion on the net about F1 car 
braking distances.

eg. If the distance needed to stop a F1 car was increased drivers would have
more time and distance to display their late braking skills and have better
opportunities to pass other cars.

One way to increase the braking distances is to return to iron disks.

A better way I believe would be to set a maximum diameter and thickness for
carbon disks (using carbon current technology gains would not be lost) and
to set a total disk brake pad friction area, this area could be split to
any number of pads a team wishes to use and be varied front to rear if needed.
These dimensions should be small enough to increase current F1 braking
distances.

Heavier car/driver combinations would have a slight disadvantage, but I assume
the heavier cars run V10's and V12's (correct me if I am wrong) which would  
weigh more and use more fuel than V8's. As these engines tend to be more
powerfull than the V8's they would gain on top end speed entering braking
areas, this would hopefully negate the braking disadvantage.

Good Idea for closer racing and more passing????

Comments please.

Roger and out.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor)
Subject: Re: Senna x Mansel
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:01:01 GMT

are letting your emotions cloud your judgment.  "Ah", you may well say, "but Obi
>you are doing exactly the same".  To that I say, possibly, but not this time.  
>I was the loudest critic of Mansell after his Montreal stupidity, but in
>this case, I think he just made a mistake.  Not a rash, hot-headed and 
>irrational challenge on Senna or anything else.  Just a mistake.  And hands up
>anyone who can say *they've* never made one of those.

Yes, you are wright, it was just another stupid mistake. The problem with 
Mansel is that he usually does dozens of mistakes, not just one.

He will probably be the champion this year but I sure think he does not
deserve it. He had the fatest car during all the year, and he could not
prove that he can handle adverse situations. He still haven't proven
that he can drive with his head instead of his foot.
I would like to watch Mansel and Senna at Williams driving the same car
next year.
So everybody could easily know who is the best driver. For me, I have no
doubts that Senna is faster and much more intelligent than Mansell.


Gilberto


>Obi.


===============================================================================
    .-----,   .           !    Obi Aghanya
   /     /   /        @   !    Fault Tolerant Systems Research Group
  /     /   /----,   /    !    Dept. of Comp. Sci, University of Essex
 /     /   /    /   /     !    Colchester  CO4 3SQ,  UK
(_____'   (____'   (__    !    EMAIL : aghao@essex.ac.uk
            (Waterloo in '92 - for Ayrton! :-)
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Its time for another match race
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:42:34 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Well, now that the IMSA GTP boys are qualifying faster than the CART
boys did last year, its time for a showdown.  In 1974 the F1 cars and
CanAm cars were pretty close in speed, so UOP had their match race at
Laguna Seca between, if the memory is correct, James Hunt and JP Jarier
in F1 Shadows vs George Follmer and Jacky Oliver in CanAm Shadows.  The
CanAm cars blew off the F1 cars.

So how about a match race between Al Jr and Michael vs Davy and Fangio?

Dan Jones
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:25:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Jul27.232519.12501
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Jul24.181439.21476@keps.kodak.com> rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.073829.29227@sbil.co.uk> rob@sbil.co.uk writes:
>> 
>> According to the article in the UK Financial Times that I 'quoted' from
>> the other day.  Honda claim they are considering getting out of F1 due
>> the current fashion for ecologically friendly cars so they can use the
>> budget in that area.
>> 
>> They went on to say that their engineers currently working on F1 engine
>> development would be re-deployed developing more eco-friendly engines,
>> emission control systems, etc. I kid you not! Bet those engineers will
>> be happy little engineers "Please can I stop building state-of-the-art
>> F1 engines and work on an exhaust filter? Thanks!".
>
>I bet all of the other F1 teams would welcome a Honda that's not spewing oil
>mist all over the track & tear-off's of following drivers! :-)
>If you can't fend 'em off with power&handling, them blind 'em! :-)
>
>-Oil&Flame-proof suit on 
>-Bob T.

Don't blame just Honda.  It's true the damned things oil like crazy
but so do most of the rest of 'em.  

1) If you shed 5 gallons of oil during the race then you're 20-30 pounds
   lighter at the end.

2) If you build 'em loose then you get more power (over the short term).
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: met@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Millam Tackitt)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: SPONSORS and racing (was...Re: POCONO)
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:57:39 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ

In article <24809@dog.ee.lbl.gov> leres@ee.lbl.gov (ucbvax!leres for uucp weenies) writes:
>Millam Tackitt writes:
-stuff intended to incite some good arguements deleted
>
>Well as long as we're tossing opinions around, I think the cause was

It didn't really look like Davey was trying to block DW as much as
it looked like he forgot that rear-view mirrors have a purpose. Maybe 
Davey is getting bored leading all the races and leaves some dangerous
openings that other drivers can't resist accessing. Racing is racing
and ALL through its history contact happens. 
Today with sponsors forcing teams to be ultra-competitive and every
little mistake is examined so closely due to snively people.
~v
Sponsors seem to take it personally if a driver/crew admit to making
a mistake. I guess that the huge percentage of spectators that watch
racing for the incipient status do associate sponsors and mistakes, but
there is no way of releasing racers from this weight.
Lets return NASCAR to STOCK CAR racing!!! 
The expenses of racing would drop DRAMATICALLY and the need for scummy
sponsors would all but end. Unfortunately the only cars that could race
would be FORD's. But that would end the manufacturers push on the
teams also.

This should be a good topic of debate, I think.
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Ferrari and Lotus (Re: Boo Boo Senna)
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:48:12 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <Jul.24.11.09.08.1992.24081@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu> boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) writes:
>JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby) writes:
>
>> ... The Lotus 102/107 must be the only GM cars that are powered
>> by Ford.
>Just a small detail, but I think that the Lotus F1 effort is a completely
>separate entity from the Lotus car Co. owned by GM. So it's not really a
>"GM car".

My recollection is that the racing team was always a separate entity from the
car company, and that since Chapman's death the family has held onto ownership
of the team.  I'm not clear on whether the change in team management (two
years ago?  Peter Collins??) has altered that situation.

Perhaps a serious Lotus fan can update us on the current ownership and team
structure.

Dave Wilson
From: pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1/CART rumours
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:20:08 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

I just picked up the latest Auto Action (Local racing rag) which
contains the following rumours, some new, some old.

Senna used the Ferrari motorhome as his own during Hockenheim
testing and the rumoured announcement is expected at the German
GP.  (BTW the rumoured amount is US$25M)

Barnard gets a GTO style research centre in England from Ferrari.

Williams to announce signing Mansell and Prost at the German G.P.

Honda to go CART racing with Rahal (who is a big Honda dealer)

Mclaren pursuing Prost (yeah I know, I just said Williams, these
are _rumours_)

Mclaren to get a shiny new 3.5l engine from BMW which is said to
be near track test readiness (how long from test track to racing?)

Ron Dennis has been waving money at Schumacher.

Walkinshaw has been talking to Little Al, who had a seat fitting
with Benetton the day after the British G.P.  This would make
Ford in Detroit happy.

Perhaps we should keep track of these and give each rag a Rumour
Reliability Index which we could put in the (rumoured) FAQ.
-- 
pod@softway.sw.oz.au                    | Gaffer tape is like the force.
Softway Pty Ltd                         | It has a light side and a dark
Phone:   +61 2 698-2322                 | side and it binds the universe
Fax:     +61 2 699-9174                 | together.
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Misc. Weekend Ramblings
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:54:14 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <1992Jul22.144804.28455@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com>,
wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) writes:
|>
|>In article <1992Jul20.232640.8750@rdg.dec.com>
|>winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
|>>
|>>In article <1992Jul20.171914.14494@ncube.com>,
|>>bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
|>>|>between MiAndretti and Rahal.  I think Michael did a masterful job
|>>|>avoiding Rahal on the pit exit.  What else was he supposed to do?
|>>
|>>Maybe use the brakes?  Maybe travel at a safe speed in pit lane like he's
|>>supposed to?
|>
|>You've decided what he's "supposed" to do, have you?  I guess you've written
|>up your own private set of rules to govern Indy car racing?

No, IndyCar have written up a set of rules to govern Indy Car racing, and one
of those rules is that, although there is no set speed limit, you're supposed
to travel at safe speeds in the pits.

|>Is it lost on you that the reason why such a big deal was made about the
|>recent experiment with a speed limit in pit lane, was that under the normal
|>rules there is no limit?  The pit lane is part of the racing surface.  Say
|>that to yourself, over and over, until it sinks in.

There is a limit, and that limit is dictated by common sense.  Something you and
Michael Andretti seem to be lacking sometimes.

But let's have it your way for a moment.  In that case, we have Michael
overtaking a slower car (Rahal) on the racing surface, and going out of bounds
(over the yellow line) to complete the pass.  That in itself is a rules
infraction.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: vincent@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Jean-Francois Vincent)
Subject: Where are Qualif. Times?
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:36:12 GMT

Jean-Luc Brousseau, Univ. Quebec Trois-Rivieres.

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport