HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Subject: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:13:04 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

I wrote:
| >>No, I think it's _you_ not getting it.  The whole point of the
| >>cascades and other, similar exercises, is to vandalize and thereby 
| >>efface certain newsgroups -- certain discourses.

and then sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol) wrote:
| >Yeah, I see. It's okay to fuck around as long as it's not your dime, as
| >long as it's not your equipment. And since when is alt.drugs not a 
| >serious newsgroup? 

and then

| Oh yeah. I noticed Gordon is on Panix, so I suppose he is paying a certain
| amount of money for his account. But I would bet he doesn't have to pay
| connect charges to Internet providers to send mail and news. This is typically
| a little bit more expensive than your typical monthly public access shell
| fee.

Following up your own articles?  In public?  Isn't that
considered a perversion?

Anyway, Steve seems to be following the old Usenet 
formula, "If someone describes something, he or she must
approve of it."  I'm not sure what the cost of "noise" on
the net is, but all the cascades put together would be as
a dustmote compared to some newsgroups whose names I won't 
mention.

However, just for the record, Steve, I do disapprove very
strongly of anyone writing anything on the net I don't
like.  And I think the cascaders better leave alt.drugs
alone, because unlike postmodernity, drugs do not seem to
enhance one's ability to suffer fools gladly.
-- 
* Gordon Fitch    |    gcf@panix.com 
Newsgroups: news.misc,news.admin,misc.misc,news.groups
From: stephan@sunlab.ka.sub.org (Stephan Niemz)
Subject: Re: just what are those 40,000 hosts? (1/7)
Organization: just a little private UNIX box in Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:48:23 GMT

reid@pa.DEC.COM (Brian Reid) writes:

>For 5 or 6 years I've been posting statistics about the number of hosts on
>the network. Last week at a party somebody mentioned to me that I had never
>posted a list of hosts. I said that I didn't do it because the list was too
>big. He said I was old-fashioned, that people were posting huge junk all the
>time. So I decided to post some huge junk: the March 1992 list of hosts. This
>is every hostname from every Path line that has passed through decwrl in the
>last year. Whew.

>begin 664 allhosts.txt.Z
[...]

If you think you really _have_ to post such huge junk, it's ok
to me. But could you tell me why you post it twice??

Your file `allhosts.txt' contains 86098 lines, where the last
43049 lines are exactly the same as the first half!

Do you think your "information" is so important that everybody
has to see it twice?

	Just wondering,
		Stephan.
-- 
Stephan Niemz			stephan@sunlab.ka.sub.org
Karlsruhe, Germany		UA06@DKAUNI2.bitnet
Voice: +49 721 752930
From: glenn@rigel.econ.uga.edu (Glenn F. Leavell)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Referencing Usenet news articles in scholarly papers
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:57:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: rigel.1992Apr14.205712.971
Organization: University of Georgia Economics Department


I know that I've seen this subject addressed recently, so please excuse the
repeated question.  Could someone please e-mail me any suggested conventions
for referencing Usenet news articles in scholarly papers?  If there is any
interest, I will post a summary back to the net.

Thank you,
Glenn
--  
Glenn F. Leavell  Systems Administrator  glenn@rigel.econ.uga.edu  404-542-3488
 University of Georgia Economics Department. 147 Brooks Hall. Athens, GA 30602
Xref: sparky news.misc:890 alt.config:2856 alt.drugs:7451 alt.postmodern:1214 alt.angst:1249
From: honig@thalia.ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Subject: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Reply-To: honig@ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Organization: UC Disneyland, Dept. of Info. & Comp. Sci.
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:21:44 GMT

 cgy@cs.brown.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>It's a free country, you know.
>
>c

Yeah, but someone pays for the Usenet.


--
David A. Honig

"Oh, a vegetarian, eh?  Well, at my house, even the plants eat meat."

Xref: sparky news.misc:952 alt.config:3001 alt.drugs:7762 alt.postmodern:1306 alt.angst:1317
From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: 16 Apr 92 06:40:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.!tzjl-c.rcain
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I am finding this whole cascade business to be more and more relevent as
I see in it the same problem we are dealing with regarding drug legality
in minature.  We have the rebels, the anarchists saying hey I like doing
it and the facist autocrats saying but I don't like looking at it.  It
looks to me like the same battle.  Some call it vandalism, others art.
One side says it steps on their rights, the other side says the other
side steps on their rights.  Ad nauseum...  Well the last I have to say
on the subject is:

> Quick, what does HORIZONTAL mean?

Why, given a smooth manifold M and letting B denote its frame bundle
and V_b the vertical space at b in B, it is a smooth choice of a
subspace H_b in the tangent space B_b for all b in B such that
B_b = H_b + V_b (direct sum) and {H_b}_b is right invariant with
respect to the action of GL(n) on B.

                                                        Steven Smith

See.

-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:30:57 GMT

In article <29EB0E0D.4492@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:

>TANSTAAFL.

That doesn't mean that you need to eat at five-star restaurants every
day, though.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Xref: sparky news.misc:907 alt.config:2890 alt.drugs:7543 alt.postmodern:1238 alt.angst:1266
From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:34:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.9syj5s+.rcain
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

DURRETT@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
: then I would either drop groups where cascades were common, or fight
: back the only way possible, with words.
: 

Or you could try Pete's way, threats in our email to turn us in to our
"postmasters."
-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts
Xref: sparky news.misc:961 alt.config:3034 alt.postmodern:1322
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:31:12 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.postmodern
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
 >Quite -- but that "large number of people" are those using software
 >that is already inadequate to the task of following today's Usenet.

I agree.  Though working out how to fully use more recent, advanced software
does take a bit of "computer clue".  Mind you, if people select Usenet as
their preferred medium for discourse, they should recognise that they'll
have to do some learning.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: evenson@hitl.washington.edu (Mark Evenson)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Organization: R+D Hipsters @ virtual HITLab, Ithaca
	<29E90724.14D1@tct.com> <1992Apr13.202133.9238@wuecl.wustl.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:42:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.202133.9238@wuecl.wustl.edu> ml@jezebel.wustl.edu (M.
Lundberg) writes:
 
  [...]
   Look, someone posts an amusing article,
   and what happens, some dimwhit makes a cascade out of a few lines of
   the message.  If I kill all of the thread, I risk missing any REAL
   replies to the message.  Is that what you want?  See a message that
   you don't like, and kill the thread by cascading it to death?  I tried
   to "K" the threads which are turning into cascades, but I end up with
   many useless entries in my Kill file.  After a while, the names of
   the cascades get changed.  I don't like endlessly editing my Kill
   files.  Do you want me, and anyone else with any sense, to just
   unsubscribe to the groups?  If that's your intention, then this
   is even worse.  

Kinda like a virus.  And for every counter-measure, there will be a
counter-counter measure.

   If everyone on here read every cascade, and emailed
   it to the originator (the last entry of the cascade) we might
   see this activity stopped when his sysadmin complained about the
   excessive mail recieved.  What do you say?

Somone's going to execute the follwing in the background:

#!/bin/csh

loop_forever:
	mail ml@jezebel.wustl.edu < ~/cascade
	goto loop_forever


. . .and then where are we gonna be?

Writing filters to kill incoming mail messages?  Anybody for a jaunt
through sendmail?

Keep out of the terrorism game, unless you're prepared to get reamed. . .
From: phaedrus@unkaphaed.UUCP (James Hartman, Sysop)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time
Keywords: No More DST!
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 22:17:41 GMT
Organization: Unka Phaed's UUCP Thingy

dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:

> [...] knowing that it'll still
> be fairly light out until 10:00 in June and way past 9:00 in July
> and August.  You talk about the hassle of going to bed when the sun's
> out, but is it any better to have the sun out at 4:00 in the morning?

Knowing the location of the original site, I'll cautiously remind my fellow
Houstonians that we don't get the benefit of the long (and I mean LONG) days
in Summer that the people in more northern areas enjoy.  Then again, the
difference between summer day length and winter day length is much less than
places up north, too.  There ARE some advantages of being closer to the equator,
other than just getting to sweat 75% of the year and bitch about it 100%.  :=)

--
phaedrus@unkaphaed.UUCP (James Hartman, Sysop)
Unka Phaed's UUCP Thingy, (713) 943-2728
1200/2400/9600/14400 v.32bis/v.42bis
Xref: sparky news.misc:932 alt.config:2958 alt.drugs:7683 alt.postmodern:1274
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern
Organization:  One of these days.
Subject: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...)
Followup-To: alt.flame
	<1992Apr9.151211.22453@panix.com> <1992Apr13.034138.22749@wariat.org>
	<1992Apr13.034500.22845@wariat.org>
Reply-To: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.00 Rev. Jan 16 1992
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:56:58 -0600

In <1992Apr13.171304.25581@panix.com>, Gordon Fitch writes:
>I wrote:
>| >>No, I think it's _you_ not getting it.  The whole point of the
>| >>cascades and other, similar exercises, is to vandalize and thereby 
>| >>efface certain newsgroups -- certain discourses.
>
>and then sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol) wrote:
>| >Yeah, I see. It's okay to fuck around as long as it's not your dime, as
>| >long as it's not your equipment. And since when is alt.drugs not a 
>| >serious newsgroup? 
>
>and then
>
>| Oh yeah. I noticed Gordon is on Panix, so I suppose he is paying a certain
>| amount of money for his account. But I would bet he doesn't have to pay
>| connect charges to Internet providers to send mail and news. This is typically
>| a little bit more expensive than your typical monthly public access shell
>| fee.
>
>Following up your own articles?  In public?  Isn't that
>considered a perversion?
>
>Anyway, Steve seems to be following the old Usenet 
>formula, "If someone describes something, he or she must
>approve of it."  I'm not sure what the cost of "noise" on
>the net is, but all the cascades put together would be as
>a dustmote compared to some newsgroups whose names I won't 
>mention.
    
    This is a bogus argument, as someone arranging a feed
can specify what groups they take and thus avoid receiving
high signal to noise ratio groups. If someone posts a gif
to a talk group, this can completely jam up a small site's
feed, as has been explained many times before.
    Cascades in groups where they're not expected are more of 
an an annoyance, unless you get your feed at 2400 baud over a 
noisy line. If anything, they just lable the contributers
willfully ignorant of Usenet conventions and general etiquette.
Usually shows that the people involved thought they were way too
_special_ to have to bother reading some dumb newusers group 
hwen they first suscribed to the net.
>
>However, just for the record, Steve, I do disapprove very
>strongly of anyone writing anything on the net I don't
>like.  And I think the cascaders better leave alt.drugs
>alone, because unlike postmodernity, drugs do not seem to
>enhance one's ability to suffer fools gladly.

    Why anyone  would be glad to suffer fools is beyond me. Seems
there's enough around though.
    
    alt.angst removed from newsgroups line,as someone requested.
-- 
       John Henders      jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
    I think your "evolutionary scale" needs an adjustment.  Either 
      that, or you've got your thumb on it. -> (lefty@apple.com)

Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:29:40 GMT

In article <29EB0DB8.4639@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee):
>>Who says these people _choose_ to use a newsreader without a kill function?
>
>They choose to access Usenet at a certain system.  They could use a
>public access site if their current software is unsatisfactory.

Who says they necessarily could?  Many of them, I'll bet, do not have
computers in their home, are not connected to the Internet, and/or are
not located near public access Unix sites.  Conceivably they COULD use
a public access site even in these circumstances, but only after
considerable expense.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.fan.john-palmer,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...)
Organization: The Tiny Software Co., via APK Public Access Unix, Cleveland
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 03:41:38 GMT

me:

>| You still don't get it! These messages are transferred over the phone line
>| and cost money to some of the sysadmins out there, WHETHER OR NOT THEY READ
>| IT. 

Gordon Fitch:

>No, I think it's _you_ not getting it.  The whole point of the
>cascades and other, similar exercises, is to vandalize and thereby 
>efface certain newsgroups -- certain discourses.

Yeah, I see. It's okay to fuck around as long as it's not your dime, as
long as it's not your equipment. And since when is alt.drugs not a 
serious newsgroup? 

Grow up.

-- 
***  **  ** | The Tiny Software Company | Steve Sobol
 *  *   *   | Software Publishing,      | President, CEO & Janitor
 *   *  *   | Training & Consulting     | sjsobol@tiny.wariat.org
 *    * *   | 23707 Glenhill Drive      | ag510@cleveland.freenet.edu
 *  **   ** | Cleveland, OH 44122,  USA | {uunet|backbone}!tiny!sjsobol
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:51:35 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

| According to gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch):
| >the effacers deprive others of the use of the newsgroup...

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
| I contest this statement.
| 
| Unlike, say, a room, you can put 100 or 1000 people in a newsgroup.
| And cascade posts can usually be killed with one keystroke by people
| using threaded newsgreaders (a reasonable step in any case).
| 
| So where is the "deprivation"?

Apparently not everybody has the necessary software; or they
don't know how to use it; or maybe they're getting their stuff
over a channel the government (or some other daddy) doesn't 
pay for.
-- 
* Gordon Fitch    |    gcf@panix.com 
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Citing a USEnet posting (adademic)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<CKD.92Mar30130154@loiosh.eff.org> <ktg5s7INNcnm@early-bird.think.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 19:51:24 GMT

 Barry> == Barry Margolin <barmar@think.com> 

 Barry> Given the current syntax of the References line, it's not very
 Barry> useful.  There are usually several message IDs in the References
 Barry> line, and there's no correlation between the individual IDs and
 Barry> particular citations within the body.

Well, that's true (except for the general rule that the least-deeply-quoted
message is the last one on the References: line, and of course any
correlations between the message-ID and the poster ;-).

Still, the "In article <long-ugly-id@his.site> poster@his.site (The
Poster) writes:" seems to wrap past 80 columns almost all the time
anymore.  I suppose the solution really is to make the reader hide it
for me; I still think it should at least be wrapped...
--
Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    ECONOMIC OBSERVATIONS DEPARTMENT
System Manager & Postmaster     |  "There's always something going out of
Electronic Frontier Foundation  |      business in Central Square."
+1 617 864 0665  NIC: [CKD1]    |   -Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita@eff.org>
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:25:16 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce):
>In article <29EB0DB8.4639@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>They choose to access Usenet at a certain system.  They could use a
>>public access site if their current software is unsatisfactory.
>
>Who says they necessarily could?

Allow me to rephrase:

They choose to access Usenet at a certain system.  They could use a
public access site if their current software is unsatisfactory, and if
they possess sufficient resources (i.e. money).  And since when has
value been without cost?  TANSTAAFL.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:55:46 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to ml@jezebel.wustl.edu (M. Lundberg):
>I'm glad you like [cascades] so much.

That's an unwarranted assumption.  It so happens that I don't like
them, particularly.  I don't consider them a big deal, good or bad.

>If I kill all of the thread, I risk missing any REAL replies to the
>message.  Is that what you want?

A real threaded newsreader allows a "kill current article and all
followups" function.  In trn, it's the comma key.  So I see one
cascade followup, I hit the comma key, and *poof* no more cascade.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time
Keywords: No More DST!
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: tx
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:46:59 GMT

In article <id.HWNO.II7@ferranti.com> dennis@ferranti.com (dennis gilbert) writes:
>
> Why do we still have to put up with the LOUSY Daylight Savings
>Time?? Personally, I hate it and I know alot of other people who
>also hate it. If they must mess around with the clock, then do it
>only once and leave it that way! This bouncing the clock foward
>and backward every year is nothing but a big pain in the ass.
> My kid and I must now get up in the dark and then try to get
>a 9 year-old to bed when it is still daylight outside, it isn't 
>easy! 
>
Although your post is directed at fellow Texans, it also ended up
here in Washington, so I'd like to address it.

As one who has precious little spare time, I personally enjoy 
having daylight savings time in the summer.  It allows me to get off
work and head out in the boat or something knowing that it'll still
be fairly light out until 10:00 in June and way past 9:00 in July
and August.  You talk about the hassle of going to bed when the sun's
out, but is it any better to have the sun out at 4:00 in the morning?
Daylight savings time, far from being (as you implied in text I've
trimmed out - sorry) a tool of management to get more work out of
their employees, is a benefit to employees who can get all kinds
of personal work/recreation/beer-drinking/etc done late into the
balmy summer evenings with old Sol still lighting their way.
Besides, here in the northern climes where in winter you only have
about 8 hours of daylight (and most of that obscured by overcast).
Long summer evenings are especially a treat.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp              | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!stephsf!tacoma!dcb |"Stainless steel bolts are  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232       | ferrous but non-magnetic!" |
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst