From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Are LDS Christians?
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:19:18 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <16573@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <1992Sep21.155330.26651@ncsu.edu> cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:

>>Were are the Golden Books that Smith translated??
>>The only 3 witnesses that "saw them" saw them under a sheet--
>>not eyeball to book if you'll excuse the expression.
>>
>You mean the 8 witnesses.
>Actually they claimed to have handled them and turned the
>pages.  The quotation "under a sheet" comes from an antiMormon
>book from the 1830s, not from the witnesses.
>
>The 3 witnesses are the ones who claimed not only to have
>seen the book and handled it, but to have witnessed a voice
>from heaven commanding them to bear witness of its truth.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------


In testifiying about the Book of Mormon, the Mormons are glad to share
with you the testimonies of these men.  Of course, they don't share all
of the testimonies with you!

This is reprinted from the Mormon Church section of the Deseret News,
Salt Lake Citym Utah.  September 20,1969
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David Witmer has written a fascinating description of how the Prophet
Joseph Smith translated the golden plates.
"He (Joseph) had two small stones of a chocolate colot, nearly egg shaped
and perfectly smooth, but not transparent, called interpreters, which
were given him with the plates.  He did not use the plates in the
translation, but would hold the interpreters to his eyes and cover his
face with a hat, excluding all the light, and before his eyes would
appear the characters of the plates in a line at the top, and immediately
below would appear the translation, in English, which Smith would read
to his scribe, who wrote it down exactly as it fell from his lips."

The witness then explains how the scribe read the sentence back to the
Prophet, and if any mistakes had been made, the charaters from the plates
would remain before his eyes until the translation was witten correctly.

Shortly before the translation was completed, David, with Oliver Cowedry
and Martin Harris - the Three witnesses - was shown the plates by an
angel according to Moroni's instructions:

"And behold ye may be priviledged that ye may show the plates unto those
who shall assist to bring forth this work; and unto three shall they be
shown by the power of God..."

David Witmer was rightly qualified to become one of the three witnesses
of the work. He had aided the Prophet and his family during the
translation period, some of the actual work being done in the Whitmer
home.
He was one of the original six members of the church. He became a leading
figure, was ordained a high priest, became president of the first high
council, and, as on the the Three Winesses, helped select the Twelve
Apostles of this dispensation.

David became at odds with Church leadership, however, and in April, 1838
was excommunicated by the high council at Far West. He lived another 50
years, never rejoining the church, but whenever challenged, he
reaffirmed his testimony:

"As sure as the sun shines and I live, just so sure did the angel appear
unto me and Joseph Smith, and I heard his voice, and did see the angel
standing before us..."
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                     DAVID WHITMER'S TESTIMONY

If you go to Temple Square in Salt Lake City, Utah, you will undoubtedly
hear the story about Joseph Smith and the three witnesses of the Book of
Mormon.  The tour guides wil cheerfully point to a carved head and bust of
David Witmer and identify him as the longest living witness to the Book
of Mormon. They are quick to add that Mr. Whitmer never denied his
testemony of the Book of Mormon or that he saw the angel. What the tour
guide fails to tell you is much more important than what they do tell you.
Namely that Mr. Witmer's "testemony" of Joseph Smith includes the occultic
practice of gazing into a peep-stone to "translate" the Book Of Mormon.
IF A MORMON TAKES THE PEEP-STONE OUT OF MR. WHITMER'S TESTIMONY, THEN HE
IS SAYING THAT WHITMER'S TESTIMONY IS FALSE.  If a Mormon says Mr.
Whitmer's testimony is true, then he is endorsing the occult.

Peep-stone gazing is a form of divination practiced by fortune tellers.
They would place a stone in a hat and place the hat over their face to
exclude the all light.  Then they would "peep" into the stone to "see"
lost items, or in this case, a lost language into English.

The testimony of Mr. Whitmer was that Joseph Smith did not use the gold
plates in his translation of the Book Of Mormon. It was done through the
use of a peep-stone. Mr Whitmer's testimony was published by the Mormon
church in the Deseret News.  I have reprinted that article above. Mr
Whitmer boldly wrote his testimony in his book, "An Address To All
Believers In Christ", 1887, pages 12, 30, and 37. His public interviews
reflect th e same story about the peep-stone (c.f., KANSAS CITY JOURNAL,
June 5,1881).  We find him giving a consistant testimony throughout his
life that Joseph Smith practiced peep-stone gazing, especially in his
translation of the Book Of Mormon. Does God give his revelations through
a stone in a hat?

The Bible warns us not to follow prophets who use divination, Deuteronomy
18:9-12. Jesus said false prophets would come in the last days with signs
and wonders, Matt 24:24.  The Apostle Paul warns us about a false gospel
brought by an angel, Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Cor 11:4.  Whom will you trust
for your eternal life, Jesus or Joseph? If you trust Joseph Smith's word,
you will be trusting in occultic practices. If you trust Jesus' words, you
will be trusting in the One who alone can give you eternal life. He is
willing to forgive you of all sin. Put aside the work of the flesh and
place all your trust in Him.