From: dlw@engr.ucf.edu (Chip Wuerz)
Subject: Re : Report on LDRS XI
Summary: Trip report on LDRS XI / BALLs II
Organization: engineering, University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:52:50 GMT
Expires: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:00:00 GMT

> From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
> Subject: LDRS XI - trip report
> Date: 23 Aug 92 19:48:23 GMT

> Well here's my report from LDRS XI - no one else managed to send
> in any other stuff so please add more stuff/correct me where 
> appropriate ....

> 	Paul

> LDRS was held in the middle of the Black Rock desert near Gerlach about
> 100 miles north-east of Reno NV. The desert is a dry lake bed and has
> been dry for a couple of hundred years, unlike most US deserts this
> one is completely flat and has no vegetation on it - ideal for
> rockets - the range is about 60 miles by 10 miles - it's reputed by some
> to be the largest flat piece of land on earth. Gerlach is a small
> railroad town which is miles from anywhere (well except for Empire
> which is miles from anywhere except for Gerlach), it seems to consists
> of mostly bars - one of the Bruno's also has motels which are the only
> place to stay for miles - Bruno's had been booked up for LDRS for
> most of the previous year. Everyone else (myself included) camped out,
> either on the lake bed at the launch site or at 'the beach' at the
> edge of the lake which was more sheltered from the wind. The real rowdies
> (ie LA prefecture) camped out ot the site.

> Gerlach is about 6 hours from the Bay Area - and unfortunatly for me is
> my 'local' high power launch site (ie AeroPac's)

> The weather at BR during August is hotter than hell (well it hit 125 in
> the shade at the launch site easily several times) mornings were beautifull
> with no wind, this continued through untill about 3pm when a wind/dust storm
> cames in from the west, followed by thunder storms and a little rain untill
> 8-9pm. I packed up my tent (takes 5 min) when I got up in the morning and
> waited untill things quieted down before I put it up at night. Sun. night
> it rained really hard with spectacular lightning untill midnight - I waited
> 'till past midnight before going back onto the wet lake bed (not wanting to
> get stuck in the mud) and made it - dodging the stuck cars on the road.

This year the weather at Black Rock wasn't as pleasent for rockets as
last year.  Last year it only rained the first night before the launch.
We didn't have the big wind storms either.  The top winds were only
about 15 mph.

This year we had lots of wind and rain.  Well it could be worse, we
could be going back to Hartsdale Co. (LDRS VIII, yuck - HAIL in Aug.).

> Politics
> ========

> Tripoli board meetings continued in the Gerlach community rooms through most
> of the weekend - I sat in on some of them mainly because I was curious, but
> I didn't have a lot of background in the politics - it seemed like sometime
> on Friday the board hid themselves away and got their act together a bit more
> (some serious political compromising went on ...). Since I don't really know
> what was really going on I wont try and explain the reasons for the following:

> 	Elections: - the 3 candidates were all elected to the board, Dennis
> 		     Wacker is the new guy

> 		   - Chuck Roberts won the (non-binding) general election for
> 		     President and was so voted by the board

Chuck was voted in as president.  From what I heard it was a measure to
keep things going in a positive direction.  A new president would take
time to come up to speed.  With the current RMS situation this was a
very good decision.

>		   - Dennis Wacker was voted VP and treasurer (this had
>		     something to do with the previously mentioned compromises,
>		     I've no idea what)
NO THIS IS VERY WRONG!!!!!
NOT DENNIS WACKER.

Dennis Lamothe was voted VP and treasurer.  This decision was a
compromise...... only Dennis Lamothe and Chuck Rogers ran for president.
The board wanted Chuck to continue as status quoe.  Therefore,  Dennis
Lamothe got VP / treasurer instead.

I know Dennis and Chuck.  Dennis Lamothe has put in a lot of hours to
help Tripoli.  With his experience as a board member and running
Tripoli HQ, I think he will do a good job in his new position!

>	DOT/reg issues - they decided to set up a fund for donations to be used
>		to pay for legal counsel to try and solve some of the mire we
>		always seem to be in - this would go initially to pay for the
>		hiring of a lawyer who knows the DOT really well

The lawyer is a person who use to work for DOT.  He knows the issues from
the inside.  We still have a big problem with the cost.  As has been
noted here before, this will be a very expensive process.


>	Tripolitan - I missed most of this but basicly Bruce Kelly - the guy 
>		who edits the Tripolitan - had put a proposal to the board
>		that he take the Tripolitan private in some way (either as a
>		contractor to Tripoli or as a completely seperate magazine),
>		Bruce is currently unpaid for producing the magazine and it
>		takes about 1 month of his time every 2 months. Anyway the 
>		decision was to let Bruce take the magazine private.

This could work out real well (I said could!).  The idea being that Bruce
is currently doing a great job for free.  The magazine will have a
chance to try to survive on its own merit.  The idea being that Tripoli
will need a lot more money for legal costs and can use membership dues
for other equally important things.  Bruce can also be compensated for
his time, and will not have a big delay in getting funds (which also
causes other political problems).

If this fails, I would plan to see the Tripolitan back in Tripoli hands.
After all where does all the information for the Tripolitan come from...

>	LDRS XII - will be in Argonia, Kansas

Sorry, I will vote YUCK on this.  You can fly rockets almost anywhere.
What usually attracts lots of people are the really big projects that
can't be flown in smaller areas.  The waiver, as I understand it, is 
50,000 feet.  Another thought is, what if a residential area is hit by
a rocket.  I saw a lot of rockets (especially staged and clustered)
impacting a couple of miles down range.  I hope no houses are within
100,000+ feet from the launch area.

I heard a joke that if you burn all of Kansas, you will have an area
almost the size of Black Rock.  No flames please... no offense to the
people of Kansas, this is just my opinion.

Black Rock == Rocket Heaven !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go AeroPac!  

Yes, I live on the east coast!!!


> Whenever I went to the community center there always seemed to be someone
> outside telling Jerry Irvine jokes/horror stories.

Yes true, no comment.

> Rockets
> =======

> OK enough of the politics - this is the reason why I went to LDRS .... 

> Friday
> ======

> Flying started on Friday - I got out there at 7am to help set up the rest of
> the launch gear - since I'm with AeroPac the host prefecture we worked RSO/LCO/
> pad managers all the first day. We had 19 pads the first day - 14 or so with
> the usual motley assortment of rods and a few with towers etc, the next
> day the Tripoli launch gear turned up and we had 5-6 more - about half with
> towers erected around them.

> There wasn't a lot up on Friday, I only got a couple of my smaller 
> rockets flown - it got so hot during the day that I found myself getting
> really lethargic - this ended up being par for the whole weekend.

> Friday night's night flights were cancelled due to the weather.

> Saturday
> ========

> On Saturday things got really busy, towards the end of the day lines started
> to form at the RSO's table - there was an ultra-scale launch during the
> middle of the day - unfortunatly the enormous mosquito I think everyone's
> seen pictures of suffered seperation and got squished. The guys with the full
> scale Patriot launched it to about 1000 ft (it flies on 3 K1100s and
> 3 I230s), it too suffered seperation and was damaged after the main part
> of the body fell.

> I got to fly my 2-stage Magnum (K550 -> J275) for the first time - I was really
> nervous about this and launched it from one of the far towers, it's a stock LOC
> Magnum with a home built 1st stage that is mercury staged (I didn't get the
> computer wired for the Magnum in time) and uses a piston in the bottom stage to
> get fast clean seperation. This flight was a dream with the whole thing staging
> perfectly and the second stage fly straight as an arrow. The recovery system on
> the bottom stage failed (the chute stripped - I have to find a better way to
> do this - I was relying on lots of bungee - but it looks like it stripped
> before all the bungee was deployed) it came in pretty gently and broke a fin
> and dented the stage coupler some - it will live to fly again.

> Sunday
> ======

> Sunday got really busy because we started doing tracking, delays got longer and
> longer and many people who wanted to fly missed out at the end. 

> Someone flew an O powered altitude attempt and missed by 100ft!.

Tom Binford flew his fiberglass rocket with a Vulcan O.  He thought he
got shorted on the total impulse.  Dajavo!!!!!! ( LDRS X)
This accounted for a late ejection on the flight.
Real nice flight.  Parachute stripped.  Many pounds of tracking chalk
was used, ~ 7 lbs..  Second highest flight of a non-metallic /
non-professional rocket (99 feet short of the record).  This flight
replaced UCF's record from last year (LDRS X).  The rocket was predicted 
to go about 40,000 feet.  When the rocket flew it went straight but had 
a substantial spin.

> I got to fly my Magnum single staged again and promptly stripped a chute again]
> (it seems that the nylon guys on the chute were sliding along the bungee at
> ejection and melted ...) my Magnum planed in and was recovered and was able
> to be fixed for the next day.

> Monday
> ======

> Monday was BALLS which this year was Tripoli insured (at the last minute),
> the BLM required insurance for us to use the desert. People were allowed
> to fly home built motors so long as they were inspected by a committee
> beforehand.

> There had been supposed to be a motor limit to discourage people flying
> engines under Ks but since tracking the previous day had ment that people
> had missed out others were allowed to fly so long as they didn't get in
> the way.

> We started off with another Magnum drag race - the rules - you must fly a
> LOC Magnum with a K550 in it - you get to choose your ignitor etc, winner was
> first off the pad - 7 of us entered and all of them launched and were recovered
> successfully, I got 4th (winner decided by videotape). I was LCO at the time and
> trying to find 7 chutes through all that smoke was really tough.

Great idea.  This was something to see.  Watch for the videos!
Seven great flights at once and no crashes.

> There were a couple of great CATOs including an M (from the Canadians) which
> catoed on a pad and dented the 1/2 inch rod and the pad and cut the wiring
> to one of the other pads and an N (from Bill Morrow et al) which was built
> into a beautifull fibreglass rocket which completely mangled the tower they
> had built (and what a bang!).

This launch will remain known for its Catos.  A lot of the homemade
motors produced very loud bangs.  These guys should go into the
demolition business or at least subscribe to rec.pyro.  

The StarFlight's steel tower was blown up by one cato described above.
The UCF N to L rocket was being set up in our adjacent tower.  We decided not
to set up the rocket, put the tower back on the ground, and hid the
rocket behind Stu's large U-Haul truck (sorry Stu).  Good idea!!!!
Large chunks of steel blew away from Star Flights tower as we felt
the blast from back behind the flagged markers.  This is another fine 
example which promotes premanufactered (safe) motors.

> Several altitude attempts were made, no one beat the record. I don't remember
> names by the guy from Florida (you know who you are on the net!, stand up
> and tell us all the details of what you were flying) had a great try with a N
> to L staged attempt which failed when the second stage CATOed,

No the second stage burned great.  Problems resulted from a premature
ejection of the substainer.  Many theories, still studing the video and
data.  The best two theories were
1) Static Electricity build up at mach 1.2+ set off the flash bulb
recovery charge.
2) Timer circuits did not function properly due to either temperatures
(mach 1.2+) or a short.  The timer circuits were quadruple checked and
functioned great.  These timers, built by UCF, had been flown on many
rockets including last years L to L flight (supersonic).  Two
independent timers were used, so the short idea probably didn't happen.
The materials people at UCF will be asked to look at the substainer.
Everything was recovered again, except the transition.
I will write more information on this flight later.

We also had a M1300 to a L700 which we didn't have time to fly.
It will be flown at a later launch.  A lot of the rules were changed
concerning the altitude competition (ex. metal rockets, barometric
sensors, separate pads ....) more on this later.

> and the guys out at pad 99 (about a mile north) had a great flight at the
> end of the day witha N to K that flew perfectly (but was untracked).

Actually a M2000 to a K300.

From what I heard....
John Hopkins Advanced Physics Laboratoy flew metal minisounding rockets, 
barometric sensors, no optical tracks, from a separate launch area.  They 
had a varied assortment of rockets.  I spotted four individuals around 
their camper / launch site.  At least one individual from this group is 
a member of Tripoli and a good friend of Chuck Rogers.  Altitudes are 
tentative, they have to be evaluated by Bill Wood to be declared
offical.

N motor.............23,875
J to J .............39,000
M to K .............50,000

Motors were reported to be FSI's.  They only sell to University type
customers.

> Someone flew an X15ish thingy that looked real neat and flew well but canned
> in after it's main motor failed to ignite (which is why you launch with the main
> motor and air-start the auxiliaries) - this happened to several people.

> Someone else's altitude attempt failed after when he turn on the saftey switch
> for the top stage and it ignited (people ran REALLY FAST out of that cloud of
> smoke!) - which is why you should have an indicator telling you whether it's
> safe to arm things - if you need a simple circuit - see me!

> The grand final to BALLS was when Dennis Lamonthe's team launched their
> 30ft 800lb monster (a couple of miles out from the pads) that made the full
> scale Patriot look tiny .... it flew successfully on a N, 5 Ls and about 9 Ks.
> Everyone had been saying all week it wouldn't fly but it did!!! WOW!!

The team consisted of Chuck Sackett who did most of the work, Mike Ward
who also did a lot of work, and Dennis Lamothe who paid most of the
money for the monster.  The rocket was an upscaled Esoteric.  It was
exactly 34' 7" (I asked Mike Ward!).  The main motors were a full O
designed by Ace (almost a P), 5 Energon L1100 designed by Richard Kuzma,
and 8 ISP K550's.  A J415 was used for recovery (Aerotech).
Great flight.  I asked Dennis and Mike if it will fly again, the
response was NO!!!
Mike Ward is currently writing an article which he will give me to post
here when he is finished.

So some time in the future I will be posting an article on the
University of Central Florida's two, 2-staged rockets
N1700 to L700
and M1300 to L700
and an article on the Team ignorant's monster rocket.
Stay tuned!!

> I was 4-5 hours late leaving BR but I'm glad I did - I got home at 3am.

> General
> =======

> I couldn't remember everyone who flew and what day the flew on there was 
> lots of neat stuff I don't remember the details on .... things I do are:

I second this fact.  I was trying to find my luggage which American
Airlines sent to Alaska for all I know, dig my stuck rental car out of
the very slick mud (had to sleep in the car that night), fight the power
outage to get simulations at Brunos, and prep two rockets for flight.
I did not get a chance to see too many other flights.  But, the launches
that I saw were great.

A great time was had by all.  I meet Stu Barrett and Paul Campbell.
Paul was doing a good job working his but off seeing that things were
run right, and Stu was nice enough to let us borrow his large U Haul
truck, so we could arm our timer circuits 14 feet off the ground.
I bet Stu didn't tell the U Haul people that the truck was almost blown
up, they probably wouldn't understand anyways.

> Randall Redd: this guy seems to fly almost anything - it doesn't even seem to
> need to be vagely pointy - he flew a pig, a dragon, a zepplin, a star, a
> UFO etc etc as LCO I found that some of his flight cards had poems on the back
...

> Someone flew a 6-8ft tall DC-3 sort of thing (without wings) that looked like
> a Zepplin and flew great (except it decided to come down in the cars - missing
> them).
-- 
> Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P

> 	How do you tell when George Bush is lying?
> 	You read his lips ...

Thanks to AeroPac for the excellent job.  Also, thanks to all the people
who helped out with the UCF project - University of Central Florida's
Student Government, Richard Kuzma (Energon - excellent motors, 
with honest business), Dan Wilson, Allan Turner, Stu Barrett,
Walter Blanca, and Bill from Deltona Fl (last name slips me).

******************************************

Chip Wuerz  Tripoli #681
2272 King Johns Court
Winter Park, Fla. 32792-2221

Chip Wuerz
Electrical Engineering Department
University of Central Florida
Orlando, Florida

*******************************************

Execellent Videos of the launches by
Kyle Shurge
and John Cato

**** Everyone *should* encourage Kyle to make a separate video
for LDRS-11 / BALLs 2.
He has 21 hours of video of these launches alone!!!!! ******

Kyle Shurge
Productions
6201 Sunset Boulevard #158
Hollywood, California 90028

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets