HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Rail Maps - Wisc,Mich
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:56:21 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <JR.92Apr6164722@gilligan.ksr.com> jr@ksr.com (John Robinson) writes:
> 
> If you want all the roads and topo features in addition to lots of old
> features (abandoned RR grades etc.) the good old USGS topos are hard
> to beat.  The metric series is now coming out in 1:25000 scale 7.5x15
> minute (twice the coverage of the old maps), for about .6 by 1 meter.
> These cost $2.50.  You'd need maybe 50 to cover all of MA, but for any
> day's trekking you'd work hard to go onto more than a few.

The problem with topographic maps is that they have so much detail that
each map shows only a small area.  In Pennsylvania, some state deaprtment
has conspired with the feds to prepare merged and slightly edited maps of
each county.  Find a "map" vendor in your area add see if anything like
that is available.

Also check if your local university or library has a "map room" - in
addition to the "directory maps" someone else mentioned, they sometimes
have older editions of the topographic maps. I'm not sure when the
series started, but even going back to the 50's you pick up a lot of
currently abandoned/gone trackage, older maps will pick up the interurban
lines abandoned in the 20's.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: Re: VRE rolls out test train
Keywords: trirail, :-)
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:05:21 GMT

In article <kurcb3INN81p@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
>In article <12588@umd5.umd.edu>, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) writes:
>
>|>    Industry analyst on board yesterday were eager to discuss what is said  
>|> is only the second cummuter rail system to start up in the United States  
>|> in almost 50 years.
>
>I have my doubts about this.  Any idea what the other one is 
>supposed to be?
Tri-rail, Miami, FL, was the first commuter service ever in South Fla. :-)
It started in 1988. Maybe there are others?
>And isn't at least some of Virginia Rail Express the revivial of old,
>discontinued services from long ago?
I don't think that there was ever "commuter" type sevice on the RF&P or
the SR through that area.
Matt


-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c+ g+ k s+ e r- p     "That's the way
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu                 Lady Luck dances.
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu  (or @quads)     Roll the Bones." --N. Peart
Boycott the Imperial Palace.           10x odds on 25c craps at Union Plaza.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
Subject: Re: Car Attacks SP Train
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:14:27 GMT

--
*******************************************************************************
John Marshall, III                           jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

     "Hey, Bungalow Bill, what did you kill, Bungalow Bill?" - The Beatles
*******************************************************************************
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 08:39:52 CDT
From: John A. Williams <UD044485@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: re: North Dakota BN action

As a resident of Grand Forks, North Dakota and a person whose office faces the
BN yard I tend to forget how much action occurs here. Grain handling is a major
activity here from fall through spring. The grain consists are heading east to
Duluth where they are loaded for shipping on the Great Lakes. Coal consists
from the west also head east through grand forks. It has been almost two years
since BN put SD 60's on these trains. The coal cars mentioned have just begun
showing up in the yard. Mostly the coal cars are BN's, either their older 4-bay
or their newer aluminum "bathtub" cars. Grand Forks is indeed an interesting
location for BN action.

John A. Williams
Anthropology Dept.
University of North Dakota
From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Color Light Signals
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:37:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: tellab5.1992Apr7.133706.9882
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries

In article <11967@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>... C&NW is phasing out searchlight signals in favor of color light 
>signals because they are simpler.  He didn't say so, but I suspect that 
>with modern solid-state controls, it's cheaper to control three bulbs 
>separately than to reverse the polarity to an expensive bipolar signal 
>head relay assembly.

Elementary question: How do you get yellow?  Giant bipolar LEDs? 8-)
-- 
			  jcj@tellabs.com
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Montrealer Notice
Date: 17 Apr 92 11:41:26 GMT

George Robbins writes:

>Yeah, but in the case of DC, I'd put it the other way.  The old station
>building has been refurbished and is quite nice, but it's not the train
>station.  Over in the back corner is a little "station" which is kind of a
>cross between airport and bus terminal styling, but reminds me most of a
>miniature version of NY Penn station - low ceilings and a sense of
>passengers as cargo, rather than people.

I think you're remembering a previous incarnation of the station, because it
hasn't looked like this since the renovation was finished.  The station
proper occupies about half of the lower level of the concourse, with an
immense ticket counter, baggage areas, and the gates/waiting areas  (and
most improbably, a McD's at one end-- golden arches and all).  The ceiling
over the waiting area is the concourse roof, which is about 25 feet up.  The
platforms haven't changed, but (at least to my eye) the platform area in DC
has mostly been well-kept up.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "Were you there when they crucified my Lord?
                  +  Were you there when they crucified my Lord?
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  O, some times it causes me to tremble, tremble, tremble,
tove!mangoe       +  Were you there when they crucified my Lord?"
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: The Chicago flood
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:32:27 GMT

I'm surprised that nobody's posted on the great Chicago flood.  It's got
railroad connections all over:

1) The Chicago Freight Subway, once run by the Illinois Tunnel Company,
    was the tunnel system that conducted the floodwaters into the
    basements of so many downtown buildings, was built as a freight
    railroad and telephone tunnel system.  The Illinois Tunnel had
    something like 50 miles of 2 foot gauge track, running on 150 volt
    overhead power.  Most of the electric locomotives were standard
    mine equipment, but they built a few of their own.  The railroad
    was an ICC regulated common carrier until it stopped operations
    in 1959.

    The tunnel connected all the LCL freight terminals in central Chicago,
    and for a while, it was heavily used for transfer of small loads
    between terminals.  The tunnel was also heavily used to transfer
    freight from the terminals to the basements of retail operations
    such as Marshall Fields.

    For many years, the Chicago Tribune ran a double-tracked 1 foot gauge
    railroad through one section of the tunnel, used to carry rolls of
    newsprint from their warehouse to their printing plant.  Two of the
    rails were also part of the 2 foot gauge system of the Illinois Tunnel
    company.

    The booklet "40 Feet Under" published by the Interurban Press,
    describes the Chicago Tunnel.  The author has suddenly become a
    celebrity because his book is just about the only authoratative
    source available to the press about the flooded tunnel system.

2) The evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people from Chicago's
    Loop involved emergency action on the railroads serving the area.
    The Chicago and Northwestern railroad is supposed to have abandoned
    all timetables and pressed every piece of stock they could find into
    emergency unscheduled service to get people out of the Loop.

3) The Chicago Tunnel was used to excavate the CTA passenger subway
    system.  This subway was closed by the flooding, so there must still
    be connections between the CTA tunnels and the old freight tunnels.
    Where are these connections?  You can make guesses from the diagrams
    in "40 feet under", but there certainly aren't any details.

    Also, how do you dry out a subway tunnel after that kind of flooding.
    The signal system on the State Street Subway looks like it has a
    block length of less than 100 yards, with fairly standard
    old-fashioned automatic block signalling technology -- how many relays
    need to be checked?
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From: R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Speaking of R & S (Re: Railway Lantern)
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:50:03 GMT
 <1992Apr4.000842.14227@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Apr4.000842.14227@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:

> Speaking of Rochester & Southern, does anybody know what the B&O (now R&S)
> location name was for the little depot and yard by the Rochster, NY Airport?  I
> have my slides labeled Rochester, but I have the feeling that's not right.
> Thanks in advance.

Chessie (B&O-WM) Pennsylvania Division Timetable No.2 of June 5, 1977
identifies the roundhouse as Lincoln Park and the yard office as Brooks
Avenue.  I don't know what the R&S calls it.

Todd Minsk, ferro-bibiliographer
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:3439 rec.travel:5406
From: jes@tcom.stc.co.uk (JES)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Third Rail
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:29:15 GMT
Reply-To: jes@tcom.stc.co.uk (JES)
Organization: NT Europe Limited, London N11 1HB.

In article <30053@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <7394@orbit.cts.com> hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton) writes:
>> What is the high speed limit on third rail electric pickup?  I know that
>> all the highspeed rail uses panagraphs but I wonder at what speed overhead is
>> better than third rail.

>I don't know of any particular speed limit - most subway type systems run
>up to 50-70 mph without problems.  Some of the third-rail interurbans or
>electrified railroads could probably push the top end a bit, I'm not sure
>about the newer transit systems which may have stretched of free running.
>trolley wheel.

British Rail's fastest existing 3rd rail powered service is the London
Waterloo to Southampton, Bournemouth and Weymouth service using the
relatively new "Wessex Express" class 442 5-car EMUs which top speed
at 100mph.  I understand that the TMSTs (Trans Manche Super Trains) will
not exceed this when running on 3rd rail through Kent from the Channel
Tunnel to Waterloo. (The TMSTs will run at 187mph (300kph) undder the
wires (25kv ac) in France and Belgium).

>George Robbins

Dave Kennard.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rabin@CS.Yale.Edu (Dan Rabin)
Subject: Re: Green meets Red (Metro Green Line)
Reply-To: rabin-dan@cs.yale.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:19:15 GMT

In article <ku3sa2INNa2i@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
writes (concerning the Washington, D.C. Metro):

   BTW, the Metro map strongly suggests that there is no way to
   get equipment from the Red Line to any of the other lines 

I don't know about Red to Orange/Blue, but there is a single track
that descends northward from between the two tracks of the Red Line
just south of Fort Totten Station, presumably (I last saw it before
the Green Line opened) for interchange of equipment with the Green
line on the lower level.

The logical place for a Red-to-Orange/Blue track would be in the
vicinity of Farragut Square.  

  -- Dan Rabin (rabin-dan@cs.yale.edu)
From: downing@figment.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SP/SF merger paint scheme spotted
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:01:56 GMT
Reply-To: downing@figment.uucp ()
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon

In article <10296@gollum.twg.com>, nolan@twg.com (Nolan Hinshaw) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Just last Friday, 3 April, I was waiting for the Caltrain commuter on San
|> Francisco's peninsula and spotted a GP9 in the Kodak paint job. I thought all
|> the old stuff was gone by now. So who knows how many units of which types
|> still wear that uniform? Where do they live? Feeble minds wanna know.
|> --
|> Nolan Hinshaw			Internet: nolan@twg.com
|> The Wollongong Group		Dingalingnet: (415)962-7197
|> Piobairi Uillean, San Francisco
|> 		Ritheann an charr seo ar phoitin!

Several SD-9's the "live" in the Portland, Oregon area are still in
the merger paint.  On 3/13/92 I saw two units, 4377 and 4420, still
in the kodachrome paint.

Also, the Port of Tillamook Bay Railroad owns 3 ex-SP SD-9's and one
of them is in kodachrome paint. Don't know the number.
-- 
Russell Downing                      |      downing@figment.intel.com
Intel DTO, Hillsboro, OR  97124      |      #include <std_disclaimers.h>
Colombia River N Scale and Railfan at large
From: jma1128@rigel.tamu.edu (Jason)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Fort Worth & Western Railroad
Keywords: steam, passenger
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:52:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Greetings.

I am new to this news{_group and was suprised noone had written about this
yet, so I thought I would take the opportunity. 

There is a new passenger steam railroad in Fort Worth, Texas. It has 4 runs
daily between the south central portion of town to the north side (tourist
attraction) stock yards. The trip lasts about 2 hours and is worth the fare
 which is currently $8 round trip for adults. They currently have 1 temporary
station, but are in the process of constructing a grand station on the
north side in which I have heard the trains will actually run into the station.
Being an acquaintance of the president, I will get more info on this. 

The equipment currently in operation consists of an ex-SP, ex-Texas State
Railroad mogul, three refurbished heavyweight commuter cars. They currenly
are rebuilding two other steam engines, several other heavyweights, and a
rpo which will be a parlor car with bar. 

There future plans include extensions to the park and zoo with similar service.
Other plans include dinner trains running to Dallas, Texas and Granbury, Texas.

The refurbishing of the cars is spectacular. If you are in town, please check
this train out. You will never see cars in everyday public use like this.
Rebuilding included mahogany, german fabric, ceiling fans, and stained glass
clearstory windows. Where else can you find that on such a train for tourists?

If in town, their temporary station is on 8th Avenue. Their phone # is in the
Fort Worth phone book.

Jason

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: Soo U30c's?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:38:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr04.033546.13544@mixcom.com>, Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz) writes:
> 
> The Soo Line had 10 U30Cs. #800-809. Serial numbers: 36715-36724. They were
> delivered April '68: 800-802, May '68 803-807, and June '68 808-809. They were
> retired Nov. '83-April '84, and were sent to E.M.D., McCook, IL, on trade-ins
> for new SD-40-2s. They were then sent next door to Pielet Brothers' for
> scapping, although I don't know if they ever were. They still might be there.

Also, didn't SOO get some ex-MILW GE units? Or were they gone by that time?

Jack Kobzeff     (jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov)
From: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: ATSF business cars derailed?
Keywords: Business cars, USA
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 22:13:09 EDT
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 883 6298

pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:

> 	Anybody know if passenger car drawgear meats the same
> 	strength specs as freight car drawgear?  (passenger trains being
> 	shorter...)

I don't know about the specs, but I know this - when the Tonawanda
Valley (1929 20th Century Limited observation lounge car) was
moved from Conway to Rockport on Conrail (January 1985) I had
the pleasure of riding that train.  I had done some laboring work
involved in getting the car pulled out of its swamp and fixed
up enough to run.

The Tonawanda Valley was the first car of a 14,000 ton train pulled
by 7,000 horses.  We had one stop for a hot box detector, another
at Alliance waiting for a late Amtrak train.  Other than that
it was track speed all the way.  So I suspect that drawbars are
all created equal.

--
UUCP: {uunet|backbone}!nshore!railnet!rad   rad@railnet.nshore.org
CompuServe: 72517.666@compuserve.COM
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CSRM Festival....June '92
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:33:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.203339.20779
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris) says:

>|>     Festival plans call for extended Museum hours,interpretive exhibits and
>|> access to Mueseum equipment not normally open to the public. The recreational
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Does anyone know which equipment this includes?  For example, would the
>following two engines be on this "list"?
>
>2-10-4  "5001"  5021    AT&SF   Sacramento, CA (N. of CSRM's Unit Shop)
>4-8-4   "2900"  2925    SF      Sacramento, CA (N. of CSRM's Unit Shop)

   Not meaning to nit-pick, but 5021 is really a "5011-class."  The only real
differences are that the 5000 and 5001-classes had outside-bearing pony trucks
and were originally built as coal burners.  The 5011's, built only because the
War Production Board wouldn't allow the Santa Fe to buy more FT's, were
somewhat heavier, with inside-bearing trucks, and were oil burners from the
start.  I wouldn't mention it except that I have many fond memories of seeing
5021 and 2925 (another war-baby) as they sat in cold storage in the Belen, and
later Albuquerque, NM roundhouses.  I read somewhere that an outfit was looking
at restoring the 5021 for excursion service; anybody know anything more about
this?

-- 
     ,------------__,_._,_  _,_._,__------------,   
  ___IooI~~|~~~~~~ ======I  I====== ~~~~~~~~~IooI___  ---------------------
 _I__I__I__|Santa Fe_____I__I_____Santa Fe___I__I__I__I Evan Werkema-elw4 I
 ~~O==O~============~O==O~~~~O==O~============~O==O~~~~o=o~~~~~~~~~~~~~o=o~~
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Montrealer Notice
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:40:01 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Apr16.032102.11688@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) says:
> 
> >Does anybody have some thoughts about why the absolutely grungiest
> >parts of Union Station are the parts that serve actual train passengers?
> >It really irritates me that they spent all that money on renovating
> >everything *except* the areas where you get on, get off, and wait
> >for the train.  
> 
>   I think you're referring to Wash. D.C. Union Station, but with the exception 
> of the waiting area, you could just as well be describing the newly
> refurbished Chicago Union Station.  The waiting area in Chicago is a lot like
> some of the better airports in the country, with video monitors for arrivals
> and departures, padded, "individual" seats with arm rests in lieu of benches, 
> and newsstand/snack/souvenir shops typical of airports.  The gates to the
> platforms are handsome and decorative, with large, sliding glass doors
> revealing the platforms beyond.  You'd expect gateways like those to lead to
> something spectacular.  Instead, when you pass through those gates, you move
> from the well-lit, brightly painted, "airport" into what looks for all the
> world like a dark, dingy, NOISY parking garage!  Talk about stark contrasts!  

Yeah, but in the case of DC, I'd put it the other way.  The old station building
has been refurbished and is quite nice, but it's not the train station.  Over
in the back corner is a little "station" which is kind of a cross between airport
and bus terminal styling, but reminds me most of a miniature version of NY Penn
station - low ceilings and a sense of passengers as cargo, rather than people.

I guess that's part of problem of being a railfan - I like what happens once
you get past the gates - noise and hot air, the rumble of engines.  Anyway,
the nicest NE corridor station (that I'm familiar with) is still the Philadelpha
30th street station.  Nice architecture, a huge and airy waiting room, all newly
restored, and if the underground platforms are still dark and grungy, so what...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David A Rasmussen)
Subject: Wisconsin Rail Referendum
Originator: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Wisconsin Association of Rail Passengers
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 03:35:04 GMT


The ammendment to Wisconsin's Constition passed by 62% or so on tuesday.
So now we can get the state to finance projects it sees fit for freight
or passenger service, which of course we'll have to fight for as well, but
it removes one more roadblock.

The governor seems to support madison and green bay service, and amtrak
expects to release some sort of report by june, so we'll see what happens 
then.

Anyone heard anything about the Swift (HR4414) bill at the federal level
lately?

-- 
Dave Rasmussen - Systems Programmer/Manager, UW-Milwaukee Computing Svcs Div.
Internet:dave@uwm.edu, Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT
AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201