HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Serving The Society
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:39:58 GMT

===============================
 samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>
>Sometimes people forget that bringing joy to others (this is one way I would
>interpret the phrase "serving the society") can bring joy to oneself (this is
>what I thought you are saying by "serve the best within himself/herself").

 I would say the reverse:

	 Most of the times individuals forget that bringing joy to oneself 
	 can bring joy to others. 

	 In fact, if your own happiness becomes dependent on someone else
	 (or vice versa), it is very likely to cause pain/misery/frustration.
	 Before you can be happy, you have to be complete - I think.

 But that interpretation of "serve oneself" is focusing on ends. That is,
 the interpretation focuses on answering the question "why serve?"
 Of course for happiness, joy, satisfaction. If you get your happiness
 from "serving others," that is your way, your choice, your selfishness.
 And you are free to choose that.

 "Service" is a means. The issue is: "whose" needs should be served. 
 Not "why?" The trouble with serving others is that YOU presume what 
 is best for others. You impose your sense of "what is happiness" on others. 
 You presume that the "others" can't achieve their own happiness by 
 themselves. That is a depraved view of fellow human. I don't subscribe to 
 that. 
 
>When you make a kid laugh, it pleases you as well, even though it didn't
>bring any physical pleasure (sight/sound/smell/taste/touch) to you. The
>pleasure was all mental.
>
>Sumitro

 When I play with a kid or my date, I am not aiming laughter. I just play.
 Sometimes we both laugh, sometimes we think each other as jerks. I do what
 the moments make me do. There are no motives, no goals.  Sometimes you
 just let life roll by itself - like these planets, galaxies....
 The "laugh" does give me (and I would guess to others too) physical 
 pleasure - that of sight and sound atleast. 

 I think I am missing your point.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Views of Whites
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:24:12 GMT

In article <4294@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>Basically as has been pointed out by a number
>of readers, we're a "model minority" group (BTW, I like that description).

It sucks! Model of what? A condominium? I think, any stereotyping from
within is as bad as from outside. So what happens if some one falls
off this model? Straight to the gutters with the ``non-model''
minorities? 

>However having said that, I still don't understand many desi's prejudices
>particularly towards african americans. It's prevalent in both desi immigrants
>and desi americans, although more so in the former.
>Ron

More so in the former? Surely, that is not a ``model group,'' is it?
Discrmination or racial prejudice exists at the individual level, no
matter what their color is. Having said that, I want to effectively
undo the ambivalence in your mind: ``some outsiders are more racial than
some insiders.'' This is the new form of racism, seen through the old
crystal ball called patriotism. 


Murthy
From: murthy@heaviside.berkeley.edu (Praveen Murthy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in the Caribbean
Date: 28 Jul 1992 04:17:37 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: heaviside.berkeley.edu

In article <bjag-270792121238@owl.ls.nwu.edu> bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.222834.19232@novell.com>, mvij@novell.com (Manish
>Vij) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <14g2dhINNkcg@agate.berkeley.edu> murthy@heaviside.berkeley.edu (Praveen Murthy) writes:
>> 
>> >occur.  If Indians had been in the army in Fiji according to their percentage
>> >of the population (51%), at least a civil war would have ensued and the Indians
>> >could have shown the Fijians that they weren't about to be driven out.  Instead
>> >Indians seem to always become content by existing in a nether world of just
>> >becoming prosperous but not becoming fully part of the society in which they 
>> >live (like in the 70's here when many Indians didn't opt for citizenship
>> >because of the fear of being drafted into the army.)
>> 
>> 
>> Pardon my ignorance, but just what happened in Fiji?
>> 
>> Manish

[ Stuff deleted ]

>There's been a vast emmigration of educated Indians from Fiji. I think I
>read somewhere that the number of physicians has dropped to a 1/3 or so of
>what it was before the Fijians passed the constitution that deprived the
>Indians of their rights.
>Indians have been voicing their opposition to the Fijian changes by
>leaving. It's not clear to me that a civil war would have been a better way
>to try to try to change the unjust political system in Fiji. 

Oh, I think so.  Having the attitude that one must run away to a better place
when things get rough is hardly a sound thing to do.  Indians have been living
in Fiji for generations now and if they can be kicked out, then so can whites
in America, Australia etc.  But that's hardly a solution.  Notice though that
things would never have come to a head if 51% of the army were Indian!

>Is it really true that Indians have avoided political involvement in Fiji,
>including not joining the military & police force? A few years ago, I heard

As I said, their involvement is not in proportion to their numbers.  If it
had been and they still allowed Fijian soldiers to ram guns down their throat
then we Indians are pretty pathetic lot...

>Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu

Praveen
































Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Family values and the West.
Keywords: Marriage, Family, Industrial, West.
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:17:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.203820.25685@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
> Secondly, market orientation in today's management 
> schools has come to mean "know your customer. what does
> he/she value?" This is synonymous with "treating customers like 
> your family members." So there isn't any real dichotomy there.

Like the health insurance companies, right? Wrong.

> Third, Japan has one of the most preserved sense of family values.
> And technologically, they are one of the tops. And note the market
> orientation sense they have. Extraordinary.

And who says Japanese family values are improving? In fact, more Japanese 
workers are getting alienated from their families, because of the extreme 
competitiveness of the Japanese firms forcing them to work over-time.
 
While, I agree that the original poster mixes market values with
loss-of-family-values very inadvertently, there is enough
justification to link the two. A beaten-to-death example is the Dan
Quayle's fiasco about Murphy Brown show. From the point of view of
opponents of Dan Quayle, the TV show ``markets'' itself without
reference to family values. Which seems right given that the show is
only based on a `script.' On the other hand, from Quayle supporters
point of view (now that is something, can you all please identify
yourselves for the record?)  Murphy Brown is a role model for some
women, with or without this controversial show. 

I know what you are thinking, Quayle shouldn't have been a
Vice-President in a market-based economy. But then where will his
jokes sell?

Seriously, the two governments that rule this country are: Congress
and Wall Street. The dichotomy is right here.


Murthy


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: New racism (was Re: "Lonely in America" + Desis in convenience stores)
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 18:07:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.015320.7984@novell.com> mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:
>basically it was only maybe a decade ago, I believe, that immigration policy
>was changed again to allow in the less-educated.

Immigration policy is not based on education per se. Skills are a
valid reason to immigrate into US. The difference is, say if one has a
Ph.D. in mathematics, small deal! Whereas, if Dupont can gainfully
employ that one for optimizing their new process lines, then big deal!
The difference may seem trivial, but then the late Ramanujan wouldn't
be able to immigrate into USA!

>There are close parallels between the development of this relatively
>young Indian-American consciousness and the experiences of other immigrant
>groups in this nation.  Although other Asian-Americans might have undergone
>the most similar experiences, let's not forget that even people as thoroughly
>symbolic of America as the Kennedys come from an ethnic group that was
>widely discriminated against at one time not so long ago.
>Manish


I think the dead give away of your own bias in your writing is:
``people as thoroughly symbolic of America as the Kennedy's.'' Not to
worry, this is the age old inductive bias everyone has but somehow not
factored into the argument. I think, the symbolism of ethnic groups
like Irish, Germans, Polish, Russians, etc. has been absorbed,
homogeneously, and hence securely, into the symbolism represented by
``white.''  



Murthy

Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:314 soc.culture.asian.american:7239
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Science and Technology (Re: Family values ...)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:25:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

==============================
 mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota) writes:
>[I think by changing the subject line, the usefulness of this thread
>to the culture bboards is almost none]
>

 The discussion started off with "Is science/technology destructive to
 family values." To answer that, one has to first know "what are we talking
 about." It seems pretty relevant to me. 

>I am not sure whether what you say has a proper grounding. Science is
>not an organism or an artificially intelligent entity. What you say
>applies to us as people using science.
>

 Well then, what is science?
 What are we talking about here? :)

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: mchundat@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mathai Chundattu)
Subject: Sweet & Old Malayalaganangal
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 02:18:00 GMT

	The subject says it. If you have any of them, please share. It
doesn't matter wheather it is full or not. Hopefully, there will be many to
correct. 

	I have one for now.

Title:		Thamasamenthe varuvan

Singer:		Yesudas

Music:		Don't know. (Info wanted.)

Movie:		Don't know. (Info wanted.)

	
	Thamasamenthe... varuvan...

	Thamasamenthe varuvan pranasakhi ente munnil
	Thamasamenthe anayan premamayi ente kannil
	Thamasamenthe varuvan

	Hemanthayaminithan ponvilakku poliyarai
	Makandasakhakalil rakkilikal mayangarai
	
	Thamasamenthe varuvan

	Thalirmaramilakininte thankavala kilungiyallo
	Pooncholakkadavilninte padaswaram kilungiyallo
	Pathirakkatil ninte patturumalilakiyallo

	Thamasamenthe varuvan pranasakhi ente munnil
	Thamasamenthe anayan premamayi ente kannil
	Thamasamenthe varuvan


Any corrections?

Anyone out there knows the following song?

	Kayanboo kannil viriyum kamaladalam kavilil theliyum
	Anuragavathi ninchodiyinayilninnalippazham pozhiyum 

	etc etc.

		Mathai
-- 
Mathai Chundattu
Department of Chemical Engineering & Material Science
University of Oklahoma, Norman
OK 
Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:9 soc.culture.indian:26066
From: paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Icarus)
Subject: Re: Yesterday, when it rained. -- [ Nostalgia ] -- Icarus.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:26:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.165202.15479@reed.edu> vganesan@reed.edu (The Phoenix) writes:
[..]
>Having arrived at Palghat, we would wait for the local bus that would
>take us to Alathur. We never had to wait for long, the bus would be
>quite empty at that morning hour, and the driver would always breeze
>away,the bus would be swamped with the chilli air as the driver drove
>with careless disdain, the fact that they were only two-three people in
>the bus never bothered him, and neither did he feel the urge to make sure
>that more people get on.

1] That chilli air must have been tough on kids. :-)

>
>Reaching Alathur, we would now proceed to walk to Perungalam. My mother 
>being the model housewife she is, would not care to spend the two rupees 
>it would take to take us there. "Do you know how much father has to work
>for that money?" she would ask me. I would just nod my head in the pretense
>of having understood her, and keep walking. The route to Perungulam was 
>beautiful.
>
[...]

2] Trying for a little sympathy from the ladies eh ?

   The little kid who soon becomes the beer gulping
   extra-marital sex preaching phoenix. Quite a change.
   
   Seriously, though did you have Leo guns in the fifties ?
   I can see why they drew the line at palghat :-)

3] Stay Cool.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.    ~ ~                                                                     .
.    o o      signito ergo sum.              paul chemmanoor.                .
.     |    i sign therefore i am.            Computer Science department.    .
.     =                                      Univ. of Colorado, Boulder.     .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:54 soc.culture.tamil:505 soc.culture.indian:26594
From: paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Icarus)
Subject: Re: Best wishes. Why 'kerala' instead of 'keralam'?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:33:38 GMT

In article <Bs23JK.6tD@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan) writes:
>Is this a 'intermim' newsgroup like 'alt.culture.tamil' was?

1] That depends on the response this group evokes.

>Could the promoters post the Charter and plan.
>
2] Charter follows.
   The name kerala was used primarily because it is the name by which
   the state is known outside kerala.

3] Stay Cool.
   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.    ~ ~                                                                     .
.    o o      signito ergo sum.              paul chemmanoor.                .
.     |    i sign therefore i am.            Computer Science department.    .
.     =                                      Univ. of Colorado, Boulder.     .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:19 soc.culture.tamil:362 soc.culture.indian:26171
From: sirosh@cs.utexas.edu (Joseph Sirosh)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: A boy's head was shaved for speaking Malayalam in school
Date: 27 Jul 1992 23:06:31 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: coltexo.cs.utexas.edu

A very despicable act, I agree. I remember the days I was in school;
an English Medium school in Trichur. We were absolutely forbidden to
speak in Malayalam on campus at one time. The class monitors were to
report anyone who did. So we invented "Manglish", with words like
Marakkable for forgettable and Padikkable for learnable, and so many
other wonderful words I wish I could remember. That confused the monitors -
we weren't speaking English, but well, we weren't speaking Malayalam either.
Fortunately the school authorities weren't very strict after a time.

Joseph Sirosh

PS: Ajit K.N., are you there? Share some of the DBHS memories, buddy! 
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:45:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: A boy's head was shaved for speaking Malayalam in school
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala

Re: speaking English in Kerala.

When I was in Kerala (for only 2 weeks, alas), I noticed an amazingly strong
feeling in favour of a foreign language (English). It  quickly became apparent
that there is a movement in India to supplant English as the lingua franca with
Hindi. While those in the N India may not be too worried by this, in S India 
this attitude is not apprieciated. Basically, the southern states see this
as a means of the northern states trying to enforce a cultural hegemony 
that would disadvantage the southern states.

So the southern states are _very_ strongly in favour of English as a mechanism
to, peverse though it sounds, retain their own cultural heritage.

Only in India!
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: vganesan@reed.edu (The Phoenix)
Subject: Re: Two trivia questions
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:39:19 GMT

In article <5a3ab11f.1bc5b@pisa.citi.umich.edu> Jim.Rees@umich.edu writes:
>Is the word "Malayalam" a palindrome in the Malayalam language, and if so,
>is that generally considered auspicious?
>
>Why does Kerala have the best coffee in India (my opinion only, based on a
>limited sample)?

Kerala certainly can't claim to have the best coffee in India, tea
maybe.

Karnataka might be the coffee state IMHO.

I am not sure if there are any coffee plantations in kerala
to begin with.

Peace
The Phoenix

-- 
  The Greatest burden in the world is to have              The Phoenix
   a great potential.                                      Reed #252
                     Linus from "Peanuts"                  Reed College
                                                         Portland, OR-97202
From: ganesh@cs.umn.edu (M. Ganesh)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Re: Two trivia questions
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:52:15 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In article <1992Jul29.134211.18792@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rpoletto@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Poletto) writes:
>
>Robert (oru malayaaLam paThikkunnavan)
	A better way of saying that might be: malayaaLam padikkunna oruVan.
>
>P.S.  ii gRuup kaNTatil ennikku valiya aagrahamuNTu.
	and: ee groopu kandathil ennikku vaLare santhoshamundu.

	ganesh(thrilled to see some people interested in my language)
	PS. ee thiruthal ente mathram abhiprayamane. vere aarkum ithil 
	    uthravathithiyammilla.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: chandra@cannelloni.cis.ohio-state.edu (B Chandrasekaran)
Subject: Re: A boy's head was shaved for speaking Malayalam in school
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:12:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.180142.9271@b30.ingr.com> shiva@b30.ingr.com (Shiva Shivakumar) writes:

>This is the second posting of this nature and I am deeply upset and annoyed.
>May be I am being too naive, but it is obvious to me that in order to learn
>English it is really not necessary to unlearn your native language. 

Too many issues are getting confused here re. the story about the boy whose
head was shaved because he spoke in Malayalam in an English-medium school.

1. It is a well-established technique of language learning to
"immerse" learners in only the new language being learned.  For
example, in this country, there are language clubs which meet for
dinner (even for beginners) and they are only supposed to speak in the
language that they are trying to learn.  Many such clubs have a system
by which the speaker is fined a quarter each time the person reverts
to his native or main language.  (The money thus collected is used to
buy pitchers of beer for the whole group.)  The "imersion method" is
very popular for language teaching in general. Thus the philosophy
that a student can learn English quite fast if is discouraged from
reverting to his native tongue in an English medium school is not a
silly language teaching philosophy, and it doesn't show "boot licking"
mentality, or anything like that.  If the parents are sending their child to
become proficient in English, some system of deterrence to speaking in
the native tongue is not crazy.

2. The next question of what sort of punishment is good for this or
any transgression by a child.  Shaving a child's head does seem
drastic, but that would be drastic whether or not the punishment was
for reverting to Malayalam words in an English medium school, or for
not doing math homework, or for whatever. Suppose some school in Keral
had a policy of shaving a child's head if he or she hadn't done three
homework assignments in a row?  I think that is a drastic punishment,
but I doubt that any article would have been writen on this, or that
honorable netters here would be so exercised about it.  

3. The third question is whether parents should want their child to
learn English so fast and so well, that they should send him or her to
a school *one of whose purposes for existence is to teach children English
fast and well.*  

Netters have to make up their mind about what upsets about this story:
that "immersion learning," is a good way to learn a new language, that
children in India are often punished by head-shaving for academic offenses,
or that parents want their children to learn English well and rapidly.



Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:5 soc.culture.indian:26047
From: prasad@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Sreeram P. Veluchamy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Yesterday, when it rained. -- [ Nostalgia ] -- Icarus.
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:47:51 GMT
Followup-To: alt.culture.kerala
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Paul's posting was good and brings back memories of home. I would be interestedin seeing more on this net on these lines.

Prasad Veluchamy
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Movies and dating.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:08:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.204741.29420@colorado.edu> paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Icarus) writes:
>
>   With mamooty as Bunn himself.

I thought it was Mohan Lal.

Njan
Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:50 soc.culture.tamil:497
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Kerala Politics?
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:07:43 GMT
Reply-To: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan)
Organization: IREQ, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada
Originator: srini@acr

In article <1992Jul30.183721.2722@infonode.ingr.com> tittu@tittu.b23b.ingr.com (Tittu Mathew) writes:
>
>	I heard last week the police & army shot and killed 6 people in 
>	Trivandrum. Can somebody out there throw some light on this.
>

By strange coincidence, my wife and daughter were touring Trivandrum
on the day, the Hindu moslem riots, police firing etc. were reported
in Trivandrum. I telephoned. They said there was hardly anything
called riots noticable!! The news is probably to show that there is
unrest all over India on the Ayodhya, UP issue.

Also Can we say, this is a first for Kerala: Hindu moslem riots!
Getting civilized, falling into main stream India, I suppose.

It looked like TN escaped this time.

K. Srinivasan  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian