HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:34:38 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Reagan Votes 4

Someone on the Clinton staff had said that Reagan voted for Clinton and
I guess the story is being carried in TV guide. (I don't get it). Anyhow
Rush asked Ronald Reagan about it and got this FAX from Reagan himself.

"Office of Ronald Reagan FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.          January 6, 1993"

                 STATEMENT BY PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN

Los Angeles - After more than 80 years on this earth and several decades in
political life, I thought I'd heard everything. But this week's TV Guide
story ranks up there with the worst of them.

To put and end to such nonsense, I'll spell it out for you once and for all.
I actively campaigned and energetically supported George Bush in the
November election and I proudly cast my vote for him."

The election is over, why someone would want to say "We have Regan's support."
when they don't is beyond me. Anyhow, I know it's a bit unrelated, but there
may be some that have heard the story and it's debatable if this FAX will
ever make the newspapers, perhaps a 1 inch square on the back page....

In His Love,

  Michael A. Kline, Sr. SSE
  "Know God, Know Peace"                  "No God, No Peace"
  "Champions are not men who never failed, but men who never quit"
                                          Ed Kole
  "I didn't vote for Clinton...."
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:28:01 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject: Re: Time of Jesus' death

Claus Todering asks how it is that Mark 15:25 says that Jesus was
crucified at the third hour, while John 19:14 says that Pilate sat
down on the judgement seat at about the sixth hour.

I have heard several explanations of this:

(1) The terms "third hour," "sixth hour," and "ninth hour" are used
loosely to denote morning, midday, and afternoon. In a society where
most persons estimate the time of day by a glance at the sun, such a
casual terminology is to be expected.

(2) Whereas the synoptic writers count the hours from sunrise (so
that the third hour in Mark is midmorning), John counts the hours in
the Roman fashion from midnight and midday, so that his "sixth hour"
is sunrise. The other time indications in John (1:39; 4:6; 4:52)
will all bear either interpretation.

(3) The mention of the third hour in Mark 15:25 is missing from at
least one early manuscript, and may be an addition by an editor who
wished to mark the times throughout.

(4) Mark did not mean the third hour of the day, but rather the
third hour since the trial before Pilate began.

(5) The crucifixion actually took place the day after the trial
before Pilate.  (This theory is presented in detail in Annie
Jaubert's book LA DATE DE LE CENE ("The Date of the Last Supper").)

(6) The Romans regularly flogged a man before putting him to death.
Thus, for a Roman, "I sentence you to be crucified" meant, not, "I
sentence you to be nailed up," but, "I sentence you to be flogged
and then nailed up." An ancient Roman, asked at what time a man was
crucified, would give the time of the flogging rather than that of
the nailing, since he would consider it to be all part of a single
judicial punishment. Now Jesus was flogged once when Pilate was
intending to release Him, and thought that a flogging would satisfy
His accusers, and perhaps a second time after He had been sentenced
to death. The proposed answer to Claus's question is that the
(first) flogging took place around mid-morning, and that Mark
accordingly gives this as the time of the crucifixion, but that
Pilate pronounced formal sentence around noon, as recorded by John.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Organization: Indiana University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:58:18 -0500
From:         "Stephen A. Creps" <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Natural Family Planning is not the "rhythm method" (was Re:
              Re: contraception - a crosspost)

In article <01GTEK0IU3ZK0011NA@GONZAGA.EDU> SWILBURN@GONZAGA.BITNET writes:
>I agree with Scott D. Weberg that using the "rhythm method" of birth control
>is not the best way to plan a family.  After all, if a couple cannot support
>all the children they give birth to, then those children are being prevented
>from living a comfortable life just because their parents did not use a good
>method of birth control.

   If I could make a correction, I would like to say that Natural
Family Planning (NFP) is NOT the "rhythm method."  NFP is a newer
method, and has an effectiveness percentage in the 90's.  It also has
none of the side-effects or inconveniences of the various forms of
artificial contraception.

-       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:52:30 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      test

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
>Subject: test
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:53:16 GMT

Please let me post something to bit.listserv.christia oh please please
please...  (I'm getting sick of this).

--
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:33:22 EST
From:         Marissa Ratcliff <MRATCLIF@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: C.S. Lewis
              7 Jan 1993 17:20:14 GMT from <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK>

Dear Ian,

   First, welcome to the group; I think you will find it very interesting and a
 lot of fun ( and, at times, a little inflammatory).

   I remember a discussion on this subject during the Christmas holidays.  If I
 recall correctly, the general opinion was this:  Despite the holiday's pagan o
rigin , what we celebrate and who we celebrate is more important than when we o
bserve the event or how the event was started.

   Since we probably will never know the exact date of Christ's birth, December
 25th is as good as any date.  The fact is that Christ was born on this earth t
o die and rise again for us.  I think most people would agree that this is what
 we should concentrate on  and celebrate every day of our lives, not just on a
special appointed day.


Marissa Ratcliff                Document Delivery
University of GA                Science Library
Athens, GA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:02:28 EST
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Sabbath and the Lord's Day

James Kiefer recommends his essay LORDS DAY (available from the CHRISTIA
library) for a more complete analysis of the relationship between the
Sabbath and the Lord's Day.  I would like to state that have read this
essay, I am basically in agreement with all that James has to say.  The
main point that I was trying to make in my comments on this topic was
that there is no direct correspondence.  We are not commanded to observe
the Lord's Day in a manner similar to the way in which Israel was commanded
to observe the Sabbath.  In fact, so far as I can tell, there are only two
"ritual" commandments in the NT:  1) the commandment to baptize; and 2)
the commandment to observe the Lord's Supper.

There is, however, an extremely significant typological basis for observing
the Lord's Day as fulfillment of the Sabbath (just as there is a very strong
typological basis for observing Easter as the fulfillment of the Lord's
Passover), to say nothing of the historical record presented in both the
NT and various early Christian writings.  James does an excellent job
of presenting and discussing these considerations, and I would second
his recommendation that those who are interested in forther study of this
topic read his essay.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
From: YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET (Yvette Traylor)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: New CARMEN Video
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:46:36 GMT
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Could someone give me some of the details of the New Carmen Video?
Thanks in Advance.
Yvette

   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst from Dallas - Texas
"I know worse things about myself that you will ever say about me." Anon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:32:06 CST
From:         Russ Neumeier <russn@SSEC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer request

Well, as some of you know, Shellie and I are expecting our first child in late
March.  Everything has been going fine until yesterday; Shellie got a call
from her doctor and he said that some test results showed she was anemic and
probably has gestational diabetes -- needless to say this was quite a shock,
and it has got both of us worried.

Shellie will be going in for some extensive tests on Wed, the 13th.
Please pray for peace of mind during this and that we would rely on God and
not ourselves to get through this.  May the doctors have wisdom into the
situation as well.  Thank you all.  I will let you know how everything turns
out.


Russ Neumeier
russn@ssec.wisc.edu
SSEC, UW-Madison
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:35:00 PDT
From:         SWILBURN@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: contraception - a crosspost

I agree with Scott D. Weberg that using the "rhythm method" of birth control
is not the best way to plan a family.  After all, if a couple cannot support
all the children they give birth to, then those children are being prevented
from living a comfortable life just because their parents did not use a good
method of birth control.

Scott A. Wilburn
Gonzaga University

SWILBURN@GONZAGA.EDU
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:47:04 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Small Group Church -- my personal testimony

Thank you, Jon, for your testimony. It was very moving--and encouraging.

coen@acc.wuacc.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:23:25 -0500
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ``Amazing Pride''?
              12 Jan 1993 12:09:49 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric,
Is the logical assumption that this new age Amazing Grace could
be based on  "For by Pride and Self-Esteem are you saved, through
your own merit, that of yourself. It is your gift to yourself, not
from God; Yes! You should boast!"

This perverse hymn is like a mirror image of the truth. Doesnt Satan
always present his garbage in "mirror" image fashion? God help us to
see through this deception. Thanks for sharing this...it is an eye-opener!
Mark
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:38:26 EST
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Unanswered Prayer

Yvette,
Good post, I was thinking the same thing about the public rebuke of
Ian. C'mon gang, such rebukes should be handled privately. In Ian's
defense, I received a very nice private email where he responded to
my prayer request. I appreciated it very much. I dont necessarily agree
with Ian about Christmas and such, but I'm already beginning to see that
I really believe Ian loves Jesus. Some people are very confined when limited
to a keyboard to express some of their most heartfelt convictions. So lets
give people something of a break here, particularly newer members who may
not be so used to articulating in this fashion. Now John, this is no rebuke
of you brother...what you were saying was good. Let's just be patient with
each other and lift each other up! In Love with Prayers to All....Mark
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:37:44 CST
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From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer request

I will continue to pray for your father and you.

In Christ

Janie
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Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:45:48 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Venturing into full-time motherhood

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:35:25 EST jones, mark said:
>Julie,
>The job which you have chosen to pursue on a full-time basis is one of the
>most important and most difficult jobs in the world. Motherhood is, I believe
>one of the dearest and highest callings a lady can aspire to. I have so much
>respect for ladies who devote full-time to their children. Not to say that
>I dont respect the super-mom who can juggle job, kids and all; I know many
>ladies who do a superb job of this...

MAKS> Linda was working for a while at McDonalds for a little "mad money".
      She was home schooling 4 children, giving them homework, then off
      to work, only to have to check back and see what's been done the next
      morning. Though the money helped, it really wasn't worth it.

      Honestly, between home schooling 4 children, being a once-a-week
      councilor at the Crisis Pregnancy Center, being a Sunday School
      teaching and doing shopping, laundry, and everything else for 5
      kids (counting good old dad as child 5), she's got more than enough
      to do. Talk about "Job titles too numerous to mention"!!!

>*called* of God to stay home, there is just no higher calling! I praise God
>for my beautiful wife who told me after she got pregnant that her highest goal
>in life was to make a home for me and our children. She is a priceless jewel,

MAKS> Amen, they sure are.

>and no less a professional than when she was in the working world. The world
>system and the liberal media tend to thumb their noses at the full time
>homemaker, but don't be fooled. This investment will pay dividends. God
>Bless you in your new *career* Julie!..........Mark

MKAS> Yes, I know. I've told mine several times I had so many kids because it
      would take that many to support me in my old age in the manner I would
      LIKE to become accustomed to. :-)

      I've already posted about my 14 year old and her desire to seek God to
      the fullest of her capability, addicted to Jesus as it were. The
      investments are already beginning to pay off. "I have no greater joy
      than to hear my children are walking in the truth." 3 John 4.

Maks.
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Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 12:40:14 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Apologies/clarifications about Amy Grant
              93 3:26 pm

>
>I NEVER said that I felt Amy should talk about God in every other
>sentence of every song!  Nor did I say that every song she ever
>writes should be about the Gospel, or John 3:16!  I would be glad to
>see even TWO solid, unquestionably Christian songs on an album; the
>kind of songs that point you straight to Christ without apology.  I
>would be overjoyed to hear 2 or 3 SENTENCES on Johnny Carson about
>having a relationship with Christ (I have seen some others do this).
>But I am disappointed when I see opportunities that are wasted
>entirely!
>

Well how about her latest album, heart in motion..

'Ask me how I know theres a God up in the heavens?'  A song about
how God relates to REAL hurts and issues in todays society..
Or the last song
'When it all comes down, if theres anything Good that happens in life its
from JESUS'..

There are your two songs..

ON a recent trip to Australia she was interviewed on many day time TV shows and
ALWAYS mentioned her faith, and the interviewers made a big deal out of
the fact she was a Gospel Singer!!!!!


>message!  Go ahead, sing songs about love, sing songs about fun
>things, sing songs about stupid things, about life, and death, and
>relationships, but DON'T LEAVE OUT THE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL!!!
>Without the GOSPEL, everything else becomes worthless in the face of
>eternity.
>

I am still trying to find something that rhymes with
John 3:16, John 3:16, Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus
I love John 3:16!! Rah Rah

forgive me for being irreverant if it is viewed that way, but this is the
sort of lyrics that some people expect!

>Scott D. Weberg
>

Just a note.. How many of the supposed 'more full on' Gospel singers have
albums in the top ten or number one songs??



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |      Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:00:43 EST
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hell's .Bell's video
              7 Jan 1993 21:45:51 GMT from <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK>

Ian,
we showed "Hell's Bells" to our youth group about 2 years ago, I think
when it first came out. Ive also seen it featured, along with its
producer on "The John Ankerberg Show". It is very sobering stuff. I felt
like it was one of the best documented and scholarly approaches to this
subject of rock music that I have ever seen, and I'm an old time rocker
who grew up twanging on an electric guitar! It will make your flesh
crawl in some places. Some editing may be advisable, especially if
your showing it to middle school or younger teenagers...God Bless..Mark
From: BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Brenda Curry-White)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Contraceptives as treatment for illnesses
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:24:16 GMT
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Theresa Blackwell makes a good point about contraceptives used not for birth
control, but rather for treatment of PMS or other serious illnesses.  My good
friend, who was my roommate in college, was diagnosed as having
fibroid uterine tumors.  She was given contraceptive pills to shrink these
tumors.  Later, she was diagnosed with endometriosis.  Pills again were
the treatment.

So the question is, to those of you who feel contraceptives are sinful:  are
they always sinful, even if used to treat some illness?  or are they only
sinful when the intent is to prevent pregnancy, rather than that being
just a side effect of the treatment?

Brenda
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X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:37:29 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Heather....

 I don't remember if I saved that particular e-mail message, or not.
 Maybe someone else has the info you're looking for.
Sorry I couldn't help! :(
 Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:51:32 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      AMY GRANT

Ok, that did it.  You've now got me set for an "Amy" trip.  I love this
woman's music.  I've heard just about the majority of her music, and kept
up with her ever since "the Collection" and before.  Many people DID
condemn the duet that she did with Peter Cetera.  I see THAT differently.
One of the ways that people are gonna hear Christian music, is if someone
GETS OUT INTO THE MAINSTREAM.  That's why Amy did the Peter Cetera duet.
So she could break into the mainstream.  Not a bad duet, either....
(That last statement is from a musician's point of view, ;)
Now that Amy has 'crossed over' into mainstream pop,, there is a greater
chance that her Christian lyrics may be heard by someone who definately
needs to hear them.  I think that "Love will Find a Way" was an excellent
tune.  'Every Heartbeat' can be seen from both secular and "religious"
view points, after all, shouldn't "Every Heartbeat" of a Christian's
life belong to the One who made that possible????  Just an observation,
gang.
Amy's terrific.  I wish I could see her and SMITTY in concert together.
They used to always tour together-what a concert!!!!
OH, one of my friends had stated to me that she "liked Smitty's new tape,
but...wished that every other song hadn't been a love song"...I don't
feel that "Change Your World" has ANY BAD POINTS...
--------------------
"Picture Perfect" ----states that MHO, "Smitty" looks at a lady not
                  from a Physically attractive point of view, but what
                  her HEART states about her-he's looking for Personality.
                  This obviously worked, because he's married, and has
                  5 kids.
"Love One Another"----Didn't I just read where Amy had said we need to
                      Love one another more???? Smitty's sayin' the same
                      thing in this tund.
(uh...that's "Tune")
"Cross of Gold"----  WOW....One of my Christian Music Industry pals played
               this when we did our projects last semester.  Hit some
               of the "hardheads" right 'tween the eyes. I loved it!
"Friends"---- This is a CLASSIC.
              Music has changed a bit, but the message is timeless.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:02:38 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: I THANK GOD-YVETTE

Dear Yvette,

I really enjoyed this article you posted.  I'm going to keep it and show it
to my girls at home.  It was very moving.  Keep those great posts coming.
I enjoy your posts, you are a refreshing addition to Christia.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
From: GE0110@SIUCVMB.BITNET (Tom Purcell)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: "Unanswered" prayer
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:45:45 GMT
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Answers to prayer often confused with "unanswers"....maybe some others.

1) No
2) Not now
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