HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: re: "Coupon Rates" vs "Market Rates"
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:58:21 GMT

Two people sent me info on the "rates" question. I read the
phrase "when-issued rates" somewhere, and maybe misused it.
Someone suggested that maybe I meant "coupon" rate. This seems
right. 

New Question:

Given acceptance of higher risk for higher returns, and
Given prevailing coupon rates of 3% to 9% (low risk to high risk), and
Given the prospect of future higher coupon rates (e.g. 5% to 11%), and
Given the desire to invest in an "income fund" ("growth" or low decay);

How might the "net asset values" of existing bond funds (junk bond
funds in particular) be effected?


From my previous posting, I guessed that as new bonds come out with
higher coupon rates existing bonds with lower coupon rates will have
to be discounted (e.g. from 100% to maybe 95% of face value) in order to
competitively increase their effective yield (e.g. from 5% to 
5%/.95=6.1%). 

Would the net asset value of a bond mutual fund decrease if the fund
retained its existing portfolio and didn't hedge or buy new bonds?
In practice, does hedging and turnover of portfolio sufficiently limit
reduction of NAV?


What is the experience of those who have invested in bond funds during
the past two or more years? What has the net asset value done and how
have the monthly dividends been effected? This past 12 months has seen
ever decreasing coupon rates as the Fed-Funds Rate has declined from
around 6% to 3%. 

If one is to buy and hold an investment in a bond mutual fund, is the
NAV all that important? It would be nice to buy at a historic low NAV
in order to increase the chance of realizing a capital gain, in addition
to income.

barry

ps

Previously I indicated that a 10% return is a goal. I failed to indicate
that this would be "total return" with dividends reinvested and that
I was willing to accept higher risk. 

please post, as others may be interested in your replies, thanks.


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jli@bingham.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
Subject: Re: mutual funds investing in environment and/or infrastructure
Organization: University of Utah
Distribution: misc
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:59:02 GMT

In article <SDL.92Nov5155323@rigel.linus.mitre.org> sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk) writes:
>
>Once Bill Clinton has become President and begins to enact his
>economic program, it is probable that companies that rebuild the U.S.
>infrastructure and/or help clean up the U.S. environment may profit
>from increased Federal spending in these areas.
>
>Can anyone suggest any mutual funds whose portfolios stress such
>companies and so are likely to benefit?
>
>
>
>--
>Steven Litvintchouk
>MITRE Corporation
>202 Burlington Road
>Bedford, MA  01730
>
>Fone:  (617)271-7753
>ARPA:  sdl@mitre.org
>UUCP:  linus!sdl
>	"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"



	The Financial INVESCO in Denver has a no-load nutual fund:

	  Fund Name:  Environmental (under Strategic Funds Group).

	Call 1-800-525-8085 for mre information.




JLI
================================================================================
      	 	       ******* RULES OF LIFE ******* 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	     RULE NO. 1:  YOUR BOSS IS ALWAYS RIGHT!
	     RULE NO. 2:  IF YOUR BOSS IS WRONG, GO TO RULE NO. 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU (Jianliang Li)    PENN STATE '90  UTAH '2000
================================================================================
From: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Stocks vs. Bonds
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:07:30 GMT
Reply-To: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel-Corp,_Hillsboro,_Oregon

In article <1992Nov10.203122.729@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, dmw@taurus.ece.cmu.edu (Hank Walker) writes:
|> 
|> I have been investing directly only in stocks since my time horizon is long,
|> and everything I've read always lists stocks as the highest return
|> investment for a reasonable level of safety.  But many investment articles
|> list a mix of ~70% stock, ~20% bond, and ~10% cash for those with a long
|> time horizon, but don't really give an explanation, other than that holding
|> a mix of investments is good.  So I've split my 403(b) funds 75/25 between
|> stock (CREF) and fixed income (TIAA).  I'd like to have a more rational
|> basis for making this split.
|> 

Which ever asset allocation mix you choose, make sure you stick to it.
On a regular basis -say every 6 months- compute the value of all your
investments, then reshuffle them so that the percentage mix of
stocks, bonds and cash is still the same (in your example, 75% stocks and
25% bonds). 

That way, you'll find yourself selling stocks or bonds when their value goes up, 
and buying them when it goes down.

The advantage of sticking to the same mix is to avoid timing the market
and making calls about the direction of stock or bond prices.

-- 
..CHEDLEY..
..!{uunet|tektronix|ogicse}!littlei!chedley    chedley@carthago.intel.com     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Disclaim: The above statements and opinions are strictly mine,
and do not represent any company or organization's position.
......................................................................

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pearson_steven@tandem.com (Steven R. Pearson)
Subject: Not in MISC.INVEST please (was: Boycott Colorado)
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc.,  Cupertino, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:59:51 GMT

Folks, please take this and it's follow-ups to TALK.POLITICS.MISC,
SOC.MOTSS, etc.  It does not belong here in MISC.INVEST.  It is
patently a political issue.  A general discussion regarding socially
responsible investing (SRI), yes even regarding the criteria, would be
welcomed, but not an emotional debate only tangentially related to
investing.  Thank you very much.  -steve p.
From: whg@inel.gov (Bill Gray)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: General Motors
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:19:02 GMT
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho

In article <1426500291@igc.apc.org>, mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.) writes:
|> 
|> |Ross Perot claims GM could have been fixed back when he tried to
|> |fix it, when "there was still time".  I remember this but don't
|> |remember the details.  Exactly what did Perot propose? ...
|>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said,  exactly was:

		"Get rid  of the 14th floor."	

He was referring to the GM executive suite.

========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: C-SPAN & 1929 !
Date: 10 Nov 1992 03:00:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) says:
>
>    There is also a CLEAR difference between the 30's and 90's.  Then,
>    the goverment allowed the banks to fall, and the debt to be liquidated.


         There's no difference here.  It's an illusion.  Do you really 
    believe that by taking debt from point A ( consumers ) and moving it
    to point B ( government ), it is less of a debt?.  NO, the indicators
    are quite clear now.  The market crash, the passing of financial 
    leadership from the U.S. to Japan, the rapid debt growth, rising
    racism,  the trade wars, etc.etc.

        Besides, you miss my point.  I'm well past the " this is a 
     depression " stage.  No, I see war.  Maybe Japan, maybe Germany, 
     maybe U.S.

>    Today, the goverment just keeps bailing out, and the debt - piling up.  
>    While the goverment can not repeal the debt accumulation/liquidation
>    cycle altogether, it can postpone the day of reckoning by use of
>    its own credit.  Consequently, the next Great Depression will not occur 
>    until the US (Japan's?) gov

         By 1996.  Easily.

erment defaults on its debt obligations,
>    and I have no idea when that might take place.  Other possible scenarios
>    of debt liquidation include hyperinflation and a Perot-styled "shared 
>    sacrifice".  Either way it is going to be a painful process.
>
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 1992 14:16:19 -0500 
From: David Goldreich <dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: TSE 300 and TSE35 companies
Distribution: na

Excerpts from netnews.misc.invest: 5-Nov-92 TSE 300 and TSE35 companies
by Vilok Kusumakar@bmerh322 
>  
> Does anybody have a list of companies which make up TSE 300
> and TSE 35 ?
> What is the formula to calculate the index ?
>  
The TSE 35 is a weighted average of the share price of 35 stocks.
(Basically you take each share price and multiply it by a weight
and add them all up.)

It is somewhat value weighted - once a year they reset the weights
to adjust for values.

The stock with the largest weight is BCE Inc. with 9.62% as of 8/92.
The smallest weight is Stelco Series A with about 0.21%.

Of course the weights change as the values move around.

You can get alot more info by calling up the Toronto Stock Exchange
and ask for the "Toronto 35 Index Fact Book."

I don't know anything about the TSE 300.

David

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: TW.A51@isumvs.iastate.edu (Jim Berg)
Subject: TSA/SRA Investment
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:53:21 GMT

Howdy...

Just wondering who any of you folks may be using for SRA/TSA
investments...

I am considering IDS, but am open to all suggestions!

I am o.k. with a higher risk at this point, so any companies
interest me, if they have some history.

Thanks
Jim

x1berg@exnet.iastate.edu
From: dd3e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Danny R Dalal)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Inflation Coming? (Gold?)
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:14:25 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


What does everyone think about the next four years with respect to
Clinton's monetary policy?  Do you think inflation will soar (I've been
hearing that recently) and precious metals will likewise?  How can you
know (better)?

____Dan
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: hcy@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (hon-chi.yu)
Subject: Chapter 11 question
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:00:51 GMT


    This should be a simple question to those who are familiar with the 
operations of companies.  A few years ago, I purchased some stocks of a
hard disk drive company called Xebec.  It then experienced financial
troubles and went under, so I lost my investment.  Yesterday, I was
amazed to find that Xebec has started making IDE disk drives again.
Could someone enlighten me on what process that company could have gone
thru to get to this stage?  New investment by another company such that the
old share holders will no longer have any interest on that company name?
Thanks in advance.


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: "When Issues Rates" vs "After-Market Rates"
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:06:29 GMT


I have recently become interested in expanding my portfolio
to include some form of "income" mutual fund.

My confusion over investment opportunities pertains to bond
pricing (and rates) in the after-market vs "when issued rates".

Currently, you can invest in junk-bond funds that yield between
9% and 12% with an historic total return of as much as 20% to
25%. 

With a lot of bonds out there at historically low rates, I don't
understand what would happen to them as new issues come out at
higher rates. My investor's intuition says that the price of the
existing bonds would have to drop in order to raise the effective
rates to be competitive with new issues. 

How does this effect the net asset value of a bond mutual fund?

If the fund is at $10/share and does nothing (e.g doesn't buy
new issues at higher when-issued rates) I suspect that the NAV
would drop as when-issued rates increased. As the NAV dropped,
the effective rate of the funds investments would rise. 


All things considered, if when-issued rates start to rise it
would seem advisable to avoid junk bond funds. Is this necessarily
the case or am I missing something.

If I want to earn aroung 10% income on an investment, but I also
don't want to have my principle waste away, where to do?

Is my pressime and conclusion correct?

barry

(lastline)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: burr@seas.gwu.edu (Timothy J. Burr)
Subject: Thinking of investing in Novell
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:02:40 GMT

I'm thinking of buying shares in Novell.  I have a good handle on
their current set of products and their future direction.  What
I don't know so much of is:

1) What does their balance sheet look like?  How much in debt
	are they?

2) The cohesiveness and nimbleness of their upper management.  I
	know this is somewhat subjective, but any thoughts are
	welcome.

3) The specifics of their joint partership with Unix Software
	Foundation (i.e., UNIVEL)

4) If their are any rumors or thoughts out their about any future
	acquisitions by Novell - or acquisitions of Novell.

Tim
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: vilok@bmerh322.bnr.ca (Vilok Kusumakar)
Subject: TSE 300 and TSE35 companies
Reply-To: vilok@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 18:45:54 GMT

Does anybody have a list of companies which make up TSE 300
and TSE 35 ?
What is the formula to calculate the index ?

---------------
Vilok Kusumakar                    OSI Protocols for tomorrow......
vilok@bnr.ca                       Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Phone: (613) 763-2273              P.O. Box 3511, Station C 
Fax:   (613) 765-4777              Ottawa, Ontario, K1Y 4H7
From: bills@sequent.com (Bill Sears)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Offset 401(k) Rollover Withholding
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:14:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov11.001442.10923
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Nov7.021255.26850@lgc.com> gene@lgc.com (Gene Lege') writes:
>In article <1dect6INNsic@CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> chang-mark-yan-ming@cs.yale.edu (Mark Yan-Ming Chang) writes:
>>
>>When they withhold some of the 401(k) money before giving you the check, can't
>>you just decrease your income tax withholding to offset it?
>
>Yes, but you still need to have the extra funds to cover the 20% within
>60 days to roll it and avoid the tax + penality on the withholding.

How about this.  If you know you are going to be getting shafted by the
new rule, change your W-4 to claim MANY allowances (like 40 or something).
This means that you will not have any (or much) federal taxes withheld.
Put the money that you would ordinarily be paying as federal withholding
into an interest bearing account, and when you have enough to cover the
20% garbage, roll over your 401(k) replacing the 20% they withhold with
the 20% that you've made.  Voila!!!  The government now has the money that
you've been holding from them, and you have the full amount of your 401(k)
in the new account.

Sounds like a lot of work, but some people make their living figuring out
ways to get around IRS rules, soooo...

  bills
-- 
Bill Sears            Sequent Computer Systems            bills@sequent.com

Civil Rights are not Special Rights			- Anon
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Indexing Capital Gains for Inflation
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:30:35 GMT

I trust this means that if I leave $1,000 in an account for a year at 4%,
and inflation is 5%, I'll have a $10 loss that I'll be able to deduct
against my taxes at the end of the year.  Or are stock investors going
to receive special privileges?
--
-- Christophe

"I draw the line at Styrofoam packing kernels, you sick pervert."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Offset 401(k) Rollover Withholding
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:57:27 GMT

In article <1dri68INNafc@gap.caltech.edu> watson@ccsf.caltech.edu (Stephen H. Watson) writes:
>I do not believe there are any restrictions on the number of allowances
>that you may claim.  I've adjusted mine up or down many times in
>the past in order to make my Federal taxes correct come April 15th
>(not too much or too little withheld).  If you claim a huge amount,
>the IRS may feel like they have to check it out, but I agree with Dave,
>I don't think they can force you to claim < X allowances.

Think again.  If someone claims more than 17 allowances, the employer
is required to send the W-4 to the IRS.  The IRS will look at it, look
at prior returns, and may well send both the taxpayer and the employer
a polite letter saying that the IRS has determined that the taxpayer is
qualified for "X" allowances, the employer is to use that many, and if
the employer wishes to appeal, they can ... etc.  Trust me on this one;
as an employer, I've gotten one of these letters.
--
-- Christophe

"I draw the line at Styrofoam packing kernels, you sick pervert."
From: smh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Seth M. Hardy)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: FORD visa vs. DISCOVER
Date: 5 Nov 1992 23:40:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: smh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Seth M. Hardy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


>Yes!  Ford Visa pays 0.5 percent cash back.  (Charge cards pay five percent
>cash back only in our dreams.)


	Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my new GM card gives me 5% credit
towards the purchase of a new car or truck.  Although that is not the
same as cash back, its pretty good for somebody who is going to be
buying a new car or truck in the future.

			Seth
From: Sheila.Fava@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila Fava)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Ntasg?  no one knows...
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:06:45 GMT
Reply-To: Sheila.Fava@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/3 - Nerd's Nook, Rocky River OH
X-Fidonet: Amputee Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 25485

[This is from the Amputee Conference]

Shall I quote the quote from Wayne to Jim to you?  Naaaa...just y'all:

DJ -> In your message to Wayne Briggs, you expressed some dismay that
DJ -> the fine folks at Parkland weren't telling their patients about
DJ -> NTASG:
...
DJ -> That's not an isolated problem...

It sure isn't!  Bill Baughn introduced me to NTASG when I was in
Parkland.  I am a subscriber to the NTASG newsletter and am a
member of the Nevada Amputee Support Group.  There -are- many more
people who need this kind of support group and the hospitals and
rehab units are not holding up their end of the deal.  Any ideas?
Public awareness? Computer notices of NTASG and Nevada's support
group' meetings?  Public Service Announcements?

                    ---Sheila

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!3!Sheila.Fava
Internet: Sheila.Fava@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org
From: statz@gagme.chi.il.us (Louis B. Del Boccio)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Lift-Gate
Keywords: LOW PRICE
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:02:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: handicap.25550
Reply-To: statz@gagme.chi.il.us (Louis B. Del Boccio)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 25550

>> FOR-SALE ---------- Wheelchair lift gate will fit most late
                       model vans works very well. Is now installed
                       in a bus. PRICE = Make an reasonable offer
                       price will be lower if you remove the lift.

                      E-Mail for more info......
From: jvirts@unlinfo.unl.edu (Jacquelyn Virts)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: Guide dogs - is this normal?
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:48:58 GMT
Reply-To: jvirts@unlinfo.unl.edu (Jacquelyn Virts)
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
X-Fidonet: Blink Talk Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 25560

joep@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Joe Pizzirusso) writes:

>Index Number: 25503

>> I thought it was REAL strange, and potentially dangerous. I got

>very dangerous...i had a bad moment this morning. Misty, my
>Rottie/shepherd mix was home with me. I thought i try to see how
>she was off lead going to the car..  she's been iffy now and then
>sometimes running off.  I tried to keep her focused, but then she
>spotted a squirrel and was off...  after it got away she decided
>while she was free to visit some neighbors, and ran into our
>(luckily non-busy) street. not a lot of fun...  back to work on
>this one...

>> a note or two from guide dog users who all said their dogs
>> would not come reliably when called when "out of uniform".

My husband's dog doesn't always come immediately.  Especially if I
am around--he'll come to me first and then to my husband.  I guess I'm
glad to know other people have some trouble with this, but it IS a
dangerous situation if he would get loose in public.

>i'm far from an expert at this stuff...only been at it for a year
>or so, but it seems to be a problem with either the training or the
>dogs selected, but i'm not in any position to criticise....
>Luckily, both my collies, my golden, and a number of the other dogs
>we've placed were the type that wanted to be right next to you at
>all times...leash or no leash...  Happy, our greyhound was the most
>amazing at this... hmm...i seem to be suffereing from proud-daddy
>syndrome...sorry...back to the point.

>> Geez, what happens if some circumstance causes a GDU to
>> become dogless in a dangerous environment?

>bad news...they're gonna need some help.

This has begun to worry my husband (who has had a guide dog for a year
now) because he just heard a rumour at an ACB meeting that animal
rights groups were against guide dogs and had received donations
from Pepsi.  They were considering asking people to quit buying Pepsi
products and not frequent the restaurants owned by them.  Has anyone
else heard about this?

>> With the PETA and ALF
>> terrorists around, I could see a dog being forcibly "freed" in an
>> urban environment.

>i've been out of the loop on this one...i've heard about this, but
>never heard any confirmation of this ever happening. Has it? how
>prevelent is this?  How real is the threat?  I've talked with some
>serious animal rights folks, and none considered this life to be
>slavery for the dog...  i won't get started on why i think these
>dogs are more lucky and more loved and cared for than any other
>dogs...

>> Or maybe I'm just paranoid and suspicious.  :-)

>nah...just healthy and cautious...its a weird world out there...

AMEN!

Jacque