HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: why bother? (MANY GOOD REASONS! - THATS WHY!!!)
Date: 12 Apr 1992 20:41:51 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: ygdrasil.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <5xvj#6f.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
> The point was that the typical transactions in business are very normal and
> non-threating or dangerous. Indeed, shopkeepers will sell to just about
> any legitimate customers (that's why there had to be formal segregation
> laws in the South -- custom and peer pressure wasn't enough).

I think regulations like "you can't refuse to sell to black people"
are not the ones that are most at issue.  Market forces will, in
general, discourage segregation, although when it comes to racism and
sexism in hiring, things are rather different.

Here are some of the regulations that I think are very necessary, and
act contrary to market forces:  minimum wage laws, worker safety
regulations, anti-pollution regulations, truth in advertising laws,
and banning hazardous ingredients such as silicone or CFC's.

You will probably suggest that in a society where there are active
groups like Consumers' Union, and everybody cares enough to keep
well-informed and put their money where their morals are, market
forces would, in the end, make these regulations unnecessary.  If you
learn of such a society, please tell me and I will move there.

> So clearly, it is not the magnitude, importance, or time of the act that
> is being regulated.

Certainly not.  But every case is different, so you can't say "all
regulation is bad because some regulation is bad".

> It is more the nature of what the coercive forces (those guys over there in
> the black hats) can get away with.

Come on, do you think everybody in government is evil?  Do you think
Congress passes regulatory laws for fun?  The fact that any get passed
at all is amazing, considering how much clout big business has in
Washington.

> If you let the State get away with "regulating" an otherwise-mutual-consent
> by-adults-act in one area, then you haven't a legitimate leg to stand on
> when it does it in another area.

Sure you do.  You have to show that it is necessary in every case,
since, as you argue, different aspects of human life are vastly
different.

> Whether it is gun control, pro-life, or AB101-or-George-anti-sodomy-laws,
> doesn't matter -- the BIG issue is that you are acquiescing in letting the
> State poke its nose where it does not belong.

The issue is, where does its nose belong and where doesn't it?  If I
thought the State's nose didn't belong in the protection of the
environment, I wouldn't want to let it there.

	Wayne
Xref: sparky ca.politics:3336 ba.politics:2587 talk.politics.misc:17061
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: why bother? (MANY GOOD REASONS! - THATS WHY!!!)
From: mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 18:44:04 PDT
Distribution: ca
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:

> Overall, the difference between a most business and personal interactions
> is is within the range of differences in personal reactions alone.

Come again?

This time, in the original English, please.
:)


[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US -- cerritos.edu!batpad!mike
[] Long Beach, California
[] TNG Quote: "You were travelling in close formation at over 80,000 kph, only
[] 10 meters from Cadet Albert, and you didn't even know his orientation?!?"
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Death Penalty in California :-(
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:53:41 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Distribution: ca
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

oliver@rhea.math.ucla.edu (Mike Oliver) writes:

}In particular, I'd like to hear from anyone who wishes to
}defend (in a rational tone) the argument elucidated by Steve Baker,
}the father of one of the boys Harris killed and the officer who arrested
}Harris.  He said (quoting inexactly from memory): "Those who argue
}that the death penalty is not a deterrent miss the point.  The purpose
}of the death penalty is not deterrence, or to send a message, or to
}make a political point.  It is to punish one man for the brutal killing
}of two boys."

}Now let me say first of all that it is hard to blame Baker for feeling
}this way; perhaps he should not for his maximum spiritual good but that
}is not for me to judge.  My focus is on whether the rest of us ought
}to agree with him.  Because if the purpose is simply to punish, then
}what is the purpose of punishment?  Is the suffering of those who do
}evil an end in itself?  Can anyone explain *why* it is an end in
}itself, or is this simply an axiom?

For one thing, I believe that a quick death entails a lot less suffering
than spending the rest of your life in prison with no hope of getting out.
So I reject that part of your question.

As I said in a previous posting, my personal belief is that punishment is
right because it is fair.  If you make the choice to do harm to me, I get
to balance that by punishing you.  The modern legal system exists to make
sure that the correct persons get punished and to ensure that the punishment
is, if not equitable, at least not excessive.  I think that killing someone
who brutally kills an innocent person is far LESS than equitable, but
since it's the most we can reasonably do, I'm all for it.

--James Preston
From: mikea@psdslc3.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Death Penalty in California :-(
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:01:07 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr13.231826.22842@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:

>I re-subscribed to ca.politics today expecting to find
>it jammed with articles pro- and con- the upcoming (next
>Tuesday, failing a miracle or Gov. Wilson's intervention
>(miracle is more likely)) execution of Robert Alton
>Harris at San Quentin.

I'll add to the fray...of one. 

I am totally opposed to the death penalty. However, I am also aware that
Mr. Harris's chances of being saved from the GasCan are zippity-doo. So,
I would like to hear from the "let's kill 'im" crowd why we should not
put the murder on TV; I'm sure "A Current Affair" would love to have the
excloo.

Also, if we're gonna kill, let's do the whole pile on Death Row all at
once. Dig a big pit, spray 'em with lead, then fill the hole. Why waste
time?
								   MPA
From: djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: CALI-FUR-NIA IS SEX-NEUROTIC
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 16:31:53 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering

mike@butt-pad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor) writes:

> No, Clayton and djk won't let us.  Anyone who discusses such things
> get labelled as child molesters, deviants and whatever else pops into
> their little heads.  Best you drop the subject now.
> 
> 
> But I just know you won't.
> 

I think that supporting those who advocate sodomy with little children
does a pretty fair job of affixing and proving that label all by itself.

We just won't let you get away with it. :)

-djk

--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------
--- NMS&Systems Engineering ----------------------------------------
--- Djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM / ..CtEdge!Nitro!Djk ----------------------
-- 'innovative solutions for modern problems' ----------------------
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty in California : -(
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:09:48 GMT

In article <sd7d1INN8og@agate.berkeley.edu> faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher) writes:

>What is the purpose of
>the criminal justice system?
>
>	(1) Deterrence.  Other people will see what has happened to a
>	    criminal, and will be scared of committing the same crime.
>	(2) Rehabilitation.  Teach the criminal to be a good citizen
>	    and he won't do it again, or if he's mentally ill, try and
>	    cure him.
>	(3) Protection.  Keep the criminal off the street for a while.
>	(4) Revenge.

You've missed at least one, and possibly several, possibilities.  The one
I have in mind is:

	(5) Sacrifice for the expiation of sin/guilt/crime.

WITHOUT ENTERING INTO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A DESIRABLE 
GOAL, 

it seems to me that the death penalty _serves_ this end remarkably well.  

Particularly the electric chair, which, undoubtedly, makes a burnt offering, 
a pleasing smell unto the LORD.

********************************************************************************

Okay. . . so where _do_ I stand on the death penalty?

I think I'm against it, but I'm not entirely sure.  My problem with it is
odd.  I can understand, if I can't atone, a person killing another in the
heat of anger, or for personal gain, or out of sheer anger.

What I can _not_ understand is twelve people sitting down in a room and
deciding that a stranger should die.

On the other hand, I definitely think the death penalty is a better solution
than life imprisonment.  I'd like to tear _all_ the prisons down.  They're
a horrendous burden on the taxpayer and serve (as near as I can tell) no real
purpose at all except as monuments to unfreedom and the ability of society to
take away the individual's freedom by force.

If you're going to punish an adult, _punish_ them, don't just make them go sit
in the corner for a while.

Financial penalties I can understand.

Physical punishments, yea even public whippings, I can deal with.

But putting someone in a concrete box serves no positive purpose.  It shoves the
criminals away where we won't have to look at them for a while.  Is this the
behavior of a moral society?  Why _not_ just kill them and be done with it:  
it's a whole lot more humane.


			Lord!  Here comes the flood,
			We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood.
			If again the seas are silent, and any still alive,
			It'll be those who gave their island to survive.
			Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry. . .
				-- Peter Gabriel
		
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Voucher Initiative
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:20:18 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <rq0nrINN2o4@agate.berkeley.edu>, gnn@mastodon.cs.berkeley.edu (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> You would rather take your chances because you are already "educated"
> as are most of the people who are using this medium.  In a country
> with an increasing number of illiterate people I find it foolish to

In a system of public education, at that.  Maybe we don't have much
to lose?

> suggest that people should be free to fuck up a child's education.

By providing an alternative to the liberal propaganda mills?  You have
a strange notion of "fuck up" a child's education.

> What I believe will come out of the vouchers is a system much like we
> have today, only people feel free.  Yippy.  What good is freedom if
> you can't read, write, add ??
> 
> Later,
> George

I find it hard to believe that any system with competition could be
worse than the current mess -- and it would be strange indeed if
competition, which improves product quality in every other field,
makes it worse in education.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"The mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a
favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace
of God." -- Thomas Jefferson
From: faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Death Penalty in California : -(
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:49:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sl3ppINN9hb
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: ygdrasil.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr16.210125.12216@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
> If you look back over my criteria for when I support this penalty, 
> no one who maintains his or her innocence of the crime would be 
> put to death.

Then pleading guilty in a murder case would be the equivalent of
committing suicide.  I think people should have the right to kill
themselves if they want, so why not sentence them to life in prison,
with the stipulation that any time they want to kill themselves, they
can report to the prison hospital and have this done?

	Wayne
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: BUSH GARUNTEES LAROUCHE WONT TALK! WHY?
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation, Anaheim, California
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:44:00 GMT

IMHO the guy is paranoic, but he did suggest one of the better presidental
platforms in an infomercial in Feb.  He had a very technocratic slant-
rebuild infrastructure, education, space program, etc.
I don't recall any comments about social problems.
From: gene.saunders@West.Sun.COM (Gene Saunders)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Did anyone else feel it?
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:10:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: west.ku4eetINN5de
Reply-To: gene.saunders@West.Sun.COM
Distribution: ca
Organization: Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: gesundheit.west.sun.com

In article 1685@nic.cerf.net, readingj@nic.cerf.net (John D. Reading) writes:
|At about 4:05 this morning (Apr 3) I chanced to awaken
|momentarily and felt the bed shaking.  Couldn't have
|lasted more than about 5 seconds, and it never got so 
|strong as to rattle the windows, so it probably wasn't 
|very large, but I wanted to ask.
|
|BTW, I live in Simi Valley, Calif which is about 45 miles 
|NW of downtown Los Angeles.

	Nope .. but there was an article in the Daily Breeze (Torrance paper)
	a few weeks ago about people calling about earthquakes in the early
	hours, when it was determined that the latest spy planes heading home
	to their base in Nevada are to blame.  Big time sonic booms,
	apparently.

|
|Thanks in advance,
|
|John Reading
|readingj@cerf.net




---
Gene Saunders	 | Gene.Saunders@West.Sun.COM | Save a tree; use AnswerBook.
Southwest Area SE| ..!uunet!sun!gsaunders     | gsaunders@[192.9.9.1]
Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation: the unicorn company(tm).
I'm the one your mother warned you about: views stated herein are my own.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Did anyone else feel it?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 01:31:05 GMT
Distribution: ca

>Nope .. but there was an article in the Daily Breeze (Torrance paper)
>a few weeks ago about people calling about earthquakes in the early
>hours, when it was determined that the latest spy planes heading home
>to their base in Nevada are to blame.  Big time sonic booms,

Spy planes?  What spy planes?  I see no spy planes.......
Wow, the Daily Breeze, what a blast from the past!  Next thing someone will
note will be the GVN.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: root@cayenne.Eng.Sun.COM (Operator)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Humanities West Lecture
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:34:00 GMT
Reply-To: root@cayenne.Eng.Sun.COM (Operator)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cayenne

HUMANITIES WEST: "San Francisco 1906 - 1939: Recovering the Lost City",
May 8 - 9, 1992, Herbst Theater, San Francisco

What was it really like in San Francisco following the great quake of
1906?  Find out when you join Humanities West on May 8th and 9th in an
unprecedented journey to explore "San Francisco 1906 to 1939" through
the art, literature and politics of post-quake life.

Your conductors on this tour through the past include a stellar array
of historians, writers, performers and scholars.  Through the eyes and
memoirs of the people who were there, their lectures will cover (and
uncover) little known facts about an era which formed the character of
a city.  "San Francisco 1906 - 1939" begins Friday, May 8 at 8 PM and
continues through Saturday, May 9.  Join us for an excursion to the
colorful past.  Call Humanities West at 415 387-8780 for information
and reservations.
From: bkuo@phakt.usc.edu (Benjamin Kuo)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Free Stuff
Summary: School's almost over; asst. books, magazines
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:16:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: phakt.kuhkm9INNs3
Distribution: la
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

As the school year for me comes close to the end, I'd like to get rid of
some stuff, for FREE, provided you pick it up directly from me... :-)

"Programming with Macintosh Programmer's Workshop" by Joel West, Bantam,
November 1987.

"Introduction to Differential Equations" Prentice Hall, Miller, 1987.

MacWorld magazine, 1991: Feb, Mar, Apr, May. 1990: Sept 1992: Mar
Electronic Musician, 1991: May, Sept, Aug 1990: Apr 1992: Mar
Keyboard Magazine, 1990: May Jun Aug Sept Oct Nov Dec, 1991: Apr

I'd feel too guilty to throw these out without first offering them out to
those on the net.

Benjamin Kuo
bkuo@usc.edu
From: ez001099@hamlet.ucdavis.edu ('Louie Louie')
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Re: MAKE A WISH COME TRUE    ---<< VERY IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ >>---
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:52:10 GMT
Organization: Castilian LRC, Student Housing, UC Davis

Please DO NOT send any business cards or letters until you
have confirmed that they are still accepting them.  I have good
reason to believe that they are not longer receiving business
cards nor letters in this matter, and that the Guiness people
have cancelled this catagory to prevent future uncontrollable
amounts of mail.

Perhaps someone can get get word directly from the Make a
Wish Foundation (must be current info, of course) and then
confirm or deny this message on the net.  I will also appreciate
an e-mail message to clear this matter up.  Thankyou.

Sincerely,
Louie
ez001099@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
From: remyh@cco.caltech.edu (Remy Adam Hathaway)
Subject: Motor Scooter wanted
Summary: Looking for a motor scooter in the LA area for sale.
Keywords: motor scooter
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 19:52:23 GMT

	I'm looking to buy a used motor scooter in the L.A. area.  If anybody
has one they're looking to sell, please contact me (email) at:

			remyh@cco.caltech.edu

				Thanks!

Xref: sparky ca.wanted:554 ca.general:459
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted,ca.general
Subject: Re: MAKE A WISH COME TRUE
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:18:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: cancun.rdippold.702721117
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator) writes:
>Don't send them!!
>This has been circulating on the net for awhile now. Craig is fine. 

Unfortunately.  The deal was that he was going to die of cancer and we
were all supposed to send the postcards.  Well we did, and now he
hasn't kept his end of the bargain.  In fact, I'll bet he had no
intention of dying in the first place! 

You can't trust anyone these days.

-- 
Don't go to bed mad - stay up and fight
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Re: MAKE A WISH COME TRUE
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:16:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-ambe.d659016
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber]

Don't send them!!
This has been circulating on the net for awhile now. Craig is fine. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber         |        System Administrator
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com |                of
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki   |             Pro-Amber
CIS:      75146.430@compuserve.com   |           619-460-9762
From: erics@ocf.berkeley.edu (Eric Schaffer)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: SF/Fantasy Books For Sale
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:57:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.s7gbaINNll6
Distribution: ca
Organization: ucb
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

Science fiction and fantasy books for sale.  

For more details please contact Eric Schaffer at 510 549-0124, or 
send email to 'erics@ocf.berkeley.edu'.
From: erics@ocf.berkeley.edu (Eric Schaffer)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Car Speakers For Sale
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:30:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sakn1INN8q
Distribution: ca
Organization: ucb
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu


	Car Speakers FOR SALE

	2 Soundstream 12" reference subwoofers
	New in box, never used

	specs.: 300 max. power handling 
		93.0 sensitivity
		4 ohms
		26-1.0 frequency response(Hz to kHz)
		Max mounting depth is 4 3/4"
		32 Hz free air resonance
		weight is approx. 13.0 lbs.
		Mounting height is 5/8" with a mounting
		   cutout of 5/8"

        I am looking for the best offer for the pair of speakers,
	and I might be open to selling them separately.

	Please phone (510) 549-0124 if you are interested, or
	email this account.
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Corset
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:19:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-ambe.df23011
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber]

Wanted: A turn of the century style corset.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber         |        System Administrator
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com |                of
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki   |             Pro-Amber
CIS:      75146.430@compuserve.com   |           619-460-9762
From: crystal@StarConn.com (Paul Chen)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: PC Hand-Scanner: 256 gray for $180
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:46:13 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

PC Hand-held scanners for sale !!!
Prolab PS-4000G
-Real 256 Gray-Scale, 400 dpi Scanner
-32KB of intelligent FIFO in interface card
-Multiple File Formats (TIF,PCX,EPS,MSP,CUT,IMG) provided
-Merge & Amalgamate for A4 or bigger scan size.
-Scaling Output & 12 dithered patterns.
-Real Time Display capability.
-Bundled with a professional Image Processing Package.
-Development Toolkit provided.
-Reviewed by PC Magazine, Nov 12, 1991.
Price: $180+S/H (OCR software ProReader: $25)

Prolab PS-4200C
-Real 256/4096 color (with 100-400 dpi) scanner
-Merge and Amalgamate for A4 or bigger scan size. 
-Scaling Output and 12 dithered patterns.
-Multiple File Formats (TIF,PCX,EPS,MSP,CUT,IMG) provided
-Development Toolkit Provided.
-Reviewed by PC Magazine, Nov 12, 1991.
-DOS and Windows software package included.
Price: $400+S/H (OCR software ProReader: $25)

Contact: Paul or Grace
(408)446-1522
From: melinda@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Melinda Wolfskill)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: THANK YOU!!
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:10:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: csus.1992Apr9.221046.15973
Organization: California State University, Sacramento

I just wanted to say thanks to all of those kind people that replied to my
earlier post, "Wanted: Wedding Locations".  While I'd like to say that my
search for the "perfect place" has ended I can't just yet.  I did, however,
pick up a truly INCREDIBLE book: "Here Comes the Guide".  I saw it the other
day in the campus bookstore, but didn't want to part with the 20 bucks at the
time.  Another user suggested I pick it up (thanks to whoever you are!  i'm 
sorry, but your name slips my mind right now) and my desire for the book (i 
KNEW it would be good!!) overcame the desire to remain a cheapskate!  Oh, well,
I'm glad I got it!  Again, thanks to all of you!!

Melinda
Newsgroups: ca.wanted,ca.forsale