From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: fetus vs. baby
Date: 31 Jul 92 20:02:21 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

*sigh* Time to break out the shotgun and blow holes in John's responses to
what he thinks my position is...

In article <21223@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>Dittos.  When I stated that these people should keep their pants on,
>Jay Maynard accused me of being anti-sex.  It isn't that pro-life people
>aren't saying "cut down on unwanted pregnancies", but rather that when
>we do, we are accused of being "anti-sex" or "religious fanatics" or
>whatever.

It's because you see celibacy as the panacea, completely ignoring the fact
that people will have sex regardless of how much you preach at them.

>Pro-life people =do= suggest ways of cutting unwanted pregnancies.  You
>just aren't listening.  People like Jay think that casual sex is just fine,
>and if a child comes along, kill it.  So it is no wonder that us saying
>"why don't you stop having casual sex" goes over like a lead balloon.

Bzzt. I think that, regardless of your, my, or the Foo Church's view on the
matter, casual sex will happen. Ignoring it will not make it go away. You will
*not* stop it by saying "stop having casual sex"; all you'll get is ignored,
unless you get ridiculed and then ignored.

I also think that neither you nor I can tell a pregnant woman whether or not
she must remain in that condition. Again, if she really wants to terminate
that pregnancy, she will, regardless of you preaching at her.

>The pro-abortion activists support one objective - unrestricted access
>to abortion.  Period.  Witness John Iacoletti and Jay Maynard's comments
>regarding the child being a "parasite".  Parasites have no rights.  A
>"parasite" doesn't become a child until being born.  They don't care
>about the health of the child or even that of the mother - abortion is
>not and never has been "safe".  Saying "Keep Abortion Safe and Legal"
>is NONSENSE.

A medically sound abortion, performed under controlled conditions in clean,
certified medical facilites, is a hell of a lot safer than a coat hanger in
the bathroom. Nothing is perfectly safe.

As for your description of the lack of rights a parasite has, you're exactly
on target. I care about the health of the child, and I also care about the
health of the fetus - and I care about that more directly than you do, since I
work with pregnant women in the course of my duties as a paramedic - but I
also recognize that the fetus' rights are subordinate to the mothers'.

>I'll believe pro-abortion activists aren't all like Germaine Greer when
>they start advocating mandatory ultrasound for all women past 3 months
>to determine gestational age and mandatory C-section delivery for any
>child past 4 1/2 months gestation.  How many more live-birth abortions
>do you think would result if doctors tried to implement a program whereby
>the child was actually given a chance?  Twenty-one weeks is the current
>record for live birth.  The pro-abortion activists will be up in arms
>when all these live births start happening.

Surprise, John: I'd support mandating that abortions be performed in such a
manner as to maximize the chances for survival of the resulting child, if in
turn you'll agree to indemnify the doctor from any failure of his good-faith
efforts in keeping the child alive. The legal situation right now is not
conducive to such efforts: Any doctor who performs a C-section to deliver a
21-week-gestational-age child (thus, greatly premature) would get his pants
sued off if that child failed to live. Make that a real option legally, and
I'll buy your argument.

>The good news is that this program would result in an immediate
>Constitutional amendment outlawing all forms of abortion, regardless of
>cause.  Americans aren't going to stand still for a single second watching
>American children murdered by their mothers.  They didn't in the 40's and
>they won't in the 90's.

They are now. There's an increasing amount of anti-abortion sentiment, true -
but there's a parallel rise in pro-choice sentiment from people who see a real
threat to a woman's right to control her own body.

>The myth of "inanimate tissue" and "parasitism"
>will be dismissed when the first live born survivor of this abortion policy
>goes home from the hospital with its irate mother - and does so on national
>TV.

Even if such a policy were to happen, we wouldn't see babies go home with
irate mothers; they'd be given up for adoption by one of the zillions of folks
you talk about. Further, emotional TV coverage, just like that inflammatory
pseudo-documentary "Silent Scream", won't change the facts: it's still a
parasite.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
"Right now, because of you, this city is being overrun by baboons." "Don't
 you think that's the responsibility of the voters?" -- _Naked Gun 2-1/2_
Newsgroups: tx.politics