HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Partial exhibit list
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:12:08 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu
Keywords: feel free to add more

Corcoran Gallery, Washington, DC - Karsh: American Legends, Armenian born,  
Canadian resident, photography  Feb 27 to April 18th

Cooper-Hewitt, NYC 18th century wallpaper, through April 6th

Clark Art Inst/ Williamstown, Mass Alfred Stevens and Modernism - Belgian  
painter

Museum, Columbus, GA Thomas Hart Benton Feb 28 to April 25

Foster White Gallery, Seattle, WA 60 years of Morris Graves Jan 14 to Feb  
8th
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Wildlife art (was ANSEL ADAMS)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:20:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

In article <1ju6f5INN7d1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu  
(Ted B Samsel) writes:

>   Now I'll throw out the gauntlet of "Western Art". Let's see
> what happens.....
>    hasta siempre...
> -- 
> Ted....

Western as in the Wild West or as in European, white, male?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: mike@cc.gatech.edu (Mike McCracken)
Subject: Charter for this group
Organization: Software Research Center, Georgia Tech.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:26:10 GMT

Does anyone have a charter or description of this group?  I have been 
hesitant to post anything to the group, since in the past it has seemed to 
concentrate on articles by artists and activities in the art community.
That's fine and I enjoy reading the articles.
If the newsgroup has a broader charter, such as discussions of people's 
collecting interests, market talk (for both new and old art), decorative 
arts, etc., I'd be interested in that as well, but I don't want to start 
posting or responding to postings if that is counter to the charter and 
the group's intent.  Nor do I want to start a rec.collecting stream, if you 
know what I mean.  In addition, we don't need to start a flame war of who was 
the best artist in XX movement, in YY genre, etc.
Your advice would be appreciated.

Mike
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Ansel Adams [was Re: A question (Was: Re: Bandwagon)]
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:17:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

I think E. Weston, Paul Strand, Minor White, I. Cunningham, T. Modotti and  
several others produced work far more lasting and innovative than Adams.  
He was more the darling of the amature photo guilds than the art circle,  
though Bret Weston, a mere technician IMHO, was an admirer. Certain images  
do stand the test of time and aestetic criterion, but Adam's focus always  
seemed his technical studies - the 5 "Basic Photo Books"  and his damned  
zone system.

kristine carroll 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: 23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:00:17 GMT

In article <1jpdo1INN502@early-bird.think.com> kurt@think.com (Kurt Thearling) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.020659.28761@intacc.uucp> stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe) writes:
>>
>>While I most emphatically agree that Picasso will be seen as one of the most
>>important artists of the 20th century (I would go so far as to say he is the
>>most important of all time) I have to ask you why you picked Marcel Duchamp?
>>
>>What is it that makes you choose Duchamp?
>
>Although I wasn't the one who first mentioned Duchamp, I was thinking the
>along similar lines.  I personally think Duchamp is the most important
>artist of this century.  His influence is far reaching.  From Dada and
>Surrealism to Fluxus, Pop Art (e.g., Johns, Rauschenberg, ...), and music
>(e.g., John Cage).  He redefined what art had to be.  Ordinary objects from
>everyday life were assimilated into art, and in some circumstances were
>themselves art.
>

I think I was the person who mentioned Duchamp and, as I said, I'm biased
in this regard since Duchamp happens to be a particular favorite of mine.
However it wasn't just a whim; Duchamp managed to cover so much ground
that it would be hard to name an art movement that came *after* him that
couldn't in some way be related back to a particular work of Duchamp's.
He pushed and stretched at the definition of "Art" and managed to prove
that said definition was capable of withstanding infinite amounts of
abuse . . . 

Also, if the Armory Show (hope I got the name right) is acknowledged to
have a secure place in the history of art then Duchamp, as the creator of
"Nude Descending a Staircase", can hardly help being famous (or infamous
if you prefer.)

		-- Stewart "Fountain" Tame 

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
From: chojnack@pilot.njin.net (Ray Chojnacki-Eastern HS)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Why chosen medium? (was Re:  cheaper paint)
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:36:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Although I haven't made oils, I do make my own gouche from pigments &
gum arabic or egg binders. I like to be able to control consistancy,
texture & shine. As to cheaper, it depends on the type of pigments
used...some are very cheap & othersurprisingly expensive. It is
probably cheaper on the whole, however. Until recently, most of my
work was medieval manuscript illumination, but in the last couple of
years I have begun to work mostly with computer art-sort of "virtual
airbrush".Kind of a great  divergence in my choices I think :).
                      -W'bee (writing on a group access account)
kweather@llnj.linknet.com

   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: mainlabt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Bradley T Mainland)
Subject: Coral found in art
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:16:12 GMT

Does anyone know what the significance is of the coral necklace around baby 
Jesus' neck in two of Piero Della Francesca's later works?  It can also be 
found in one of Ambrogio Lorenzetti's triptychs, "Madonna and Child with 
Saints Nicholas and Proculus".  I would also like to know if there are any 
other examples of red coral in art.

Please send all responses to: mainlabt@ucunix.san.uc.edu

Thanks! Catherine Mainland
ZZ
:WQ
From: acolman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alison Colman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: What is out there?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:44:24 GMT
Distribution: rec.arts.fine
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.


I currently live in Pittsburgh, which does not exactly have a thriving art
scene. As a result, I feel pretty isolated from what is currently "out
there" in terms of what good art shows are up, what sort of new art is
being created, and the like. I am most interested in computer
art/animation, video, and film; does anyone out there know of any forum in
which I can learn more about what is going on in these mediums? (Besides
computer magazines! :-)) Also. would anyone be aware of any cities in the
U.S. that have a particularly strong art community, that also has a lot
going on in terms of art and technology?

Thanks in advance for any replies! :-)

Cheers,
alison colman
acolman@nyx.cs.du.edu, alison colman@launchpad.oit.unc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: LS37@UNB.CA (Stephen Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Isabel Saul
Date: 28 Jan 93 03:16:33 GMT
Organization: The University of New Brunswick

My wife recently bought a box lot at an auction for $20.  In it was
a gen-u-ine print signed by someone named Isabel Saul.  It's a image
of a young Joan of Arc standing on a hill surrounded by sheep.
(looks a bit better than it sounds)

Anyway, the few reference books we have arouns here tell me a bit
about the artist.  She was English, born 1895, exhibited a lot at
the Academy's Summer Exhibition.  Does anyone have any more
information they could give me on this artist?  I have enough one
paragraph descriptions - I need more meaty stuff, including prices
if possible.

Thanks.

Stephen Sloan
Systems Librarian                      Phone: (506) 453-4740
University of New Brunswick                    local   x6889
Fredericton, Canada
SLOAN@UNB.CA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe)
Subject: Re:  23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:58:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Matrix Artists' Network


In article <1993Jan23.170017.19297@zip.eecs.umich.edu> stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)  writes:
@think.com (Kurt Thearling) writes:
>>Although I wasn't the one who first mentioned Duchamp, I was thinking the
>>along similar lines.  I personally think Duchamp is the most important
>>artist of this century.  His influence is far reaching.  From Dada and
>>Surrealism to Fluxus, Pop Art (e.g., Johns, Rauschenberg, ...), and music
>>(e.g., John Cage).  He redefined what art had to be.  Ordinary objects from
>>everyday life were assimilated into art, and in some circumstances were
>>themselves art.

>I think I was the person who mentioned Duchamp and, as I said, I'm biased
>in this regard since Duchamp happens to be a particular favorite of mine.
>However it wasn't just a whim; Duchamp managed to cover so much ground
>that it would be hard to name an art movement that came *after* him that
>couldn't in some way be related back to a particular work of Duchamp's.
>He pushed and stretched at the definition of "Art" and managed to prove
>that said definition was capable of withstanding infinite amounts of
>abuse . . . 
>have a secure place in the history of art then Duchamp, as the creator of
>"Nude Descending a Staircase", can hardly help being famous (or infamous
>if you prefer.)
>
>		-- Stewart "Fountain" Tame 

I never recieved either of these 2 replies to my question. I would ask when you
send a message you ensure it is sent all over North America rather then just 
the States as I am in Canada and will not recieve it otherwise.
******************************************
**************************************************************************
*************************************************
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: 23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:45:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <22JAN199313221991@rigel.tamu.edu>, spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
|> 
|> I think that in some respects this
	[by "this" I think he means the aspects of Duchamp's work which were
	 being praised earlier]
|>                                    falls more under the category of artist-
|> as-commentator (or artist-as-art-critic) rather than artist-as-creator.  I
|> suppose this
	[by "this" I think he means his own last statement]
|>              involves some completely subjective judgements of what is of
|> importance in art, perhaps even more subjective in the visual arts than in
|> (as in the case of John Cage) the other arts, along with some more objective
|> criterion.
|> 
|> That is to say, in (for example) a Rene Magritte painting of a pipe with the
|> caption `Ceci n'est pas une pipe' (_The Air and the Song_ being the prime
|> example with numerous [that ought to be in italics] other examples) we
|> can judge it same manner we evaluate Van Gogh's _The Langlois Bridge_
|> (example chosen because it happens to be on the wall), i.e., composition
|> u.s.w., but we should more to the point evaluate Magritte with the fact
|> that there is active information in the painting--Magritte is in the
|> persona of artist-as-commentator--which is not present in the Van Gogh.
|> Colloquially, the Van Gogh is pretty but stupid and the Magritte is plain
|> but intelligent.

This distinction is not solid.  In art, in general, doing
really is usually about doing, in addition to being doing. :)
Painting a picture of a bridge is about bridges, seeing
bridges, seeing *that* bridge, painting bridges, painting
pictures, and painting; inevitably, even with Van Gogh or
Howard Finster.  We may say, to put down Magritte, that Ceci
n'est pas une pipe *fails* as doing though it may succeed as a
way of talking about doing; but it's not impossible to do
both.  Duchamp's and Cage's most interesting things succeed as
both -- take _Why Not Sneeze?_ (have I got the right title?
the thing with cubes of marble) and _Inlets_, for two
non-canonical examples.

	Vance
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Zone System {Re: Ansel Adams,etc.}
Date: 26 Jan 1993 04:30:38 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan26.023715.24683@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>  
corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes:
> What is the damned zone system?  Why is it damned?  Enlighten a poor,
> culture-illiterate scientist...
> ;-)

Sigh, let's see how badly I can embarass the prof who taught this to me.
Adams believed any silver image was created in the making of the negative.  
Therefore, some system of measuring (hence the need for a light meter,  
hand held of course) of the tonal ranges from shadow to hightlight was  
needed. Conventional wisdom says expose the negative for the shadows,  
develop it (convert the silver to the proper density) for the highlights.  
Keep in mind that the natural tonal range of say a landscape would be  
longer (more tones) than the film could record. So, with planning and a  
system, the photographer controls what area of landscape fall into what  
tonal range of the negative and shortens that range when deciding on  
developer intensity and time. When the negative is printed dense black =  
Zone 0, Zone 1 is black areas but with detail remaing, Zone 5 = mid grey,  
Zone 8 is white that retains detail. The Zone steps black to white are  
0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. (In the world of printing and presses this scale is  
reversed.)  Ideally, there should be no area as black black, or white  
white without any detail at all. This perfect 4x5, 8x10, 11x14 negative  
contact printed renders clear area black on paper, dense areas of silver  
would print whitish. Still with me? I'm lost. Also plan for a dust free,  
clean neg and print. Somewhere in all of this technocrap, try to produce a  
aestetically viable image. Many followers of the Zone Facists League  
believe that this "pure" technique" is the only real photography. No  
color, no fooling around in the darkroom, no Polaroid fun. Straight prints  
of related images makes a portfolio, career. (You can change subjects  
every now and then. Move from Yosemite to Big Sur for instance.)  Yawn.

Students with vision avoid Zone courses at all costs. It is sufficient to  
read a book containing the word Zone (available from Light Impressions,  
Rochester, NY) so you "get it, then forget it."  Though, as a stage to go  
through, it's one of the more innocuous, I suppose.
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: 23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:35 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Vance Maverick writes...

>This distinction is not solid.  In art, in general, doing
>really is usually about doing, in addition to being doing. :)
>Painting a picture of a bridge is about bridges, seeing
>bridges, seeing *that* bridge, painting bridges, painting
>pictures, and painting; inevitably, even with Van Gogh or
>Howard Finster.  We may say, to put down Magritte, that Ceci
>n'est pas une pipe *fails* as doing though it may succeed as a
>way of talking about doing; but it's not impossible to do
>both.  Duchamp's and Cage's most interesting things succeed as
>both -- take _Why Not Sneeze?_ (have I got the right title?
>the thing with cubes of marble) and _Inlets_, for two
>non-canonical examples.
>	Vance

+--------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
This reads a bit like some sort of Jackson Pollock on acid (that is to say,
some sort of Jackson Pollock) theory of art.

Which is neither here nor there.  My point was that a Magritte is intentionally
self-referential whereas a Van Gogh or, say, Edward Hopper, is not.  Or 
certainly not to the same extent, and therefore they can only glancingly be
judged by the same criteria.

A Miro, on the other hand is intentionally self-referential, but only to the
point of plagarizing other Miros, so that really doesn't count.









Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re:  23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:41:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan26.210735.4674@intacc.uucp>, stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe) writes:
|>
|> Duchamp's work existed because of Picasso.. Picasso was on of the very first
|> artists to start looking at things in a much different way. As I have stated
|> before, the invention of Cubism effected every artist from that point on.

Right.  And Cubism was totally uninfluenced by late Cezanne. 
Yeah.

|> Duchamp's work is riddled with cubist influences (as is quite evident in his
|> most famous piece "Nude descending a Staircase no.2". When you consider how
|> many people Picasso effected with his work, the monumental steps he took, I
|> can see no else being above him. (IMHO) 

I'll grant you an influence of Cubist technique, but the Nu
doesn't *look* Cubist.  And Duchamp didn't stay with that
technique very long.  Where are the antecedents in Picasso for
the _Large Glass_?

In any case, at this remove from 1911, it doesn't make much
sense to judge Picasso or Duchamp on grounds of their
influence on other painters likewise dead.  We have to look;
and I think that Duchamp's best is more interesting to look at
than most Picassos.

	Vance
From: an8456@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: nude model
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:54:43 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: rec.arts.fine

If anybody near New Orleans is in need of a model (nude or otherwise) for
paintings, sculptures, drawings, etc. I will gladly be of assistance.
reply to an8456@anon.penet.fi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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From: kurt@think.com (Kurt Thearling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: 23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:17:37 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: duchamp.think.com

In article <1993Jan21.020659.28761@intacc.uucp> stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe) writes:
>
>While I most emphatically agree that Picasso will be seen as one of the most
>important artists of the 20th century (I would go so far as to say he is the
>most important of all time) I have to ask you why you picked Marcel Duchamp?
>
>What is it that makes you choose Duchamp?

Although I wasn't the one who first mentioned Duchamp, I was thinking the
along similar lines.  I personally think Duchamp is the most important
artist of this century.  His influence is far reaching.  From Dada and
Surrealism to Fluxus, Pop Art (e.g., Johns, Rauschenberg, ...), and music
(e.g., John Cage).  He redefined what art had to be.  Ordinary objects from
everyday life were assimilated into art, and in some circumstances were
themselves art.

- kurt

ps.  Picasso would be second on my list.
From: leva@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (paolo leva)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Jenny Holzer
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:39:48 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University

I'm looking for information on J. Holzer. I would especially like to know
where is possible to find her truisms and her other texts. If any of you
is able to give me any information on where to look at  ... please do it!!

Thanks a lot to you all.

Paolo.


MONEY CREATES TASTE

leva@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Wildlife art (was ANSEL ADAMS)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:52:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1ju6f5INN7d1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
|> 
|>   On another note, my wife (the museum exhibits person) has
|> run up against bias against all wildlife art amongst the "art"
|> types. It seems that unless the artist is depicting something
|> "tenuously serious"  many gallery types cringe when confronted
|> with "critter pictures".

To put it crudely, there are two major forms that one's
pleasure in a photograph can take: "What an interesting
thing this print records!" and "What an interesting thing
this print *is*!"  There's a lot of skill involved in
achieving the first: as you point out, the photographer must
identify and reach the interesting thing, and must be
sufficiently skillful that readers of the print can later
recognize its interest.

But I understand (and obviously to some extent share) the
prejudice against this mode of photographic enjoyment -- in
a sense, having got the subject, the photographer has
achieved the main claim the print will make on its viewers'
attention.  It's like topical literature -- if I announce my
play addresses AIDS, I've guaranteed it a certain amount of
interest before setting pen to paper.  I think the "gallery
types" resist the critters because they see them as a way
for photographers to buy attention.

|>   Now I'll throw out the gauntlet of "Western Art".

Why are you throwing it out?  It was a perfectly good
gauntlet!

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Western Art (was Wildlife art/ ADAMS)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:47:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

In article <1k38jlINNj1f@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu  
(Ted B Samsel) writes:
> 
> Western art as in Charles M. Russell or Albert Bierstadt or
> George Catlin or Karl Bodmer....
> Confused you, no?
> -- 
> Ted....

I admit to a great deal of confusion most of the time. I'm familiar with  
this genre, but only barely. What about it appeals to you? I also admit to  
some stylistic prejudice. These works "chew the curtains," as they say in  
theater, a little too much. Not subtle like Rembrant, but, in trying to  
caputure the "dramitic Western sky" these painters lack finesse. Or am I  
missing some of the better practicioners?