From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: The Gender Lie
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:25:58 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Max Zener writes:
>jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) writes:
>> Max Zener writes:
>>  
>>> But we before us here a provable theory -- homosexuality has a 
>>> genetic basis.
>>  
>> I agree.  It is probably a genetic potential that exists within 
>> all males to a greater or lesser extent.  
>   Brains do display sexual dimorphisms, and if any genetic factors 
contribute
>to homosexuality, they will doubtlessly be found in these areas.  I 
maintain
>this claim due to the results of research in developing rats' brains.  
There
>is a short window of opportunity during which time the brain is sensitive 
to
>the presence of testosterone.  If it is present in either a female or male 
rat,
>then the brain becomes male, as far as mating practices go.  That is to 
say,
>when the rate is in heat it displays male mating behavior.  If testosterone 
is
>abscent from either a male or female rat, the brain develops into a 
sexually
>female one -- the rat displays female mating responses.
 
Congenital contributions to homosexuality are not at issue.  I've 
recognized from the outset that they exist.  The more important question 
is whether these congenital contributions are:
 
1) Independent of mother's developmental and neonatal environment.
2) The prime contributers to later homosexual orientation.
 
   
>> The idea that its expression is blindly congenital or blindly genetic 
>> is politically convenient for gay politicos but it is not consistent 
>> with what we know about genetic self-interest -- not even taking 
>> take kin selection into account.  
>>  
>   Homosexuality in the rest of the animal kingdom aside, to discuss human
>sexuality solely on the basis of genetics or experiments like the one cited
>above is overly simplistic;  to do so would be to deny that the human 
psyche is
>molded to a large degree by _learning_, or, in other words, environment.  
 
And as modern understanding of neural biophysics underscore, physical 
changes in brain structures take place as a result of learning.  Thus 
making the distinction between genetic and environmental even more
difficult to sort out.
 
>The role of genetics in the learning process of humans is most likely to be
>that of determining the bias of new information.  
 
Actually, Skinner was a lot more specific:  
 
He stated that evolution is first order reinforcement which determines 
what we find find reinforcing.  Later development under second order 
reinforcement schedules can alter what we find reinforcing.  Finally, 
primary learning itself takes place as a result of the whole set of 
stimuli that we find reinforcing.
 
Feminists like to talk about second order reinforcement schedules as
the way culture arbitrates gender roles.  Gay politicos like to talk
a lot about evolutionary reinforcement and discount second order 
reinforcement.
 
>   An interesting theory is that a brain is formed with a certain amount of
>bisexuality, and the degrees to which the different sides of that sexuality 
are
>expressed come from the initial balance and from later learning.
 
All things considered, a theory along these lines is most likely correct.
You have to look at "temporary" homosexuality that no one likes to talk
about -- least of all the men who engaged in it and the gay politicos
who want to portray homosexuality as switch that is stuck in one position.
 
>   Perhaps I should have been more specific.  Hormones only affect CEREBRAL
>development during a short period in the fetal stage.  The brain does not,
>indeed cannot, develop (i.e., grow and physically change) after birth.  
 
Whoa!!  Not even Levy takes that extreme position!  

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