HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holzman@d0gslb.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: What's really behind this "men's choice" thing?
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:43:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: d0gslb.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <92345.182213U53644@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U53644@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> In case you think that I'm being unfair to them - I'm not. For a short list of
> examples, after you try to remember the last time that your wife/girlfriend/
> sister/mother/aunt/female "friend" supported you in a dispute with another
> woman, ponder.........

You mean starting with current disputes that said sister, wife, girlfriend,
ex-girlfriend, and mother *are* supporting me in?

> 
>   1. The resumption of draft registration. Remember the argument against
>      requring women to register : "Do you want your daughters to die in
>      battle". Ie. Your son's lives aren't as great a loss.

I almost always hear this one from men.  I know many women who think that the
draft should be abolished altogheter, and many who think that shey should have
to sign up for it as well.

[snip]
>                 Try to find a woman who finds anything unjust about this.
>                 Quite the contrary, every one you meet will argue that the
>                 woman's testimony should be the only evidence needed to
>                 convict ("Why would she make it up ?")

Found 'em.  Next?

> 
>             5.  While women are given preferential treatment in hiring, men
>                 are still given the full responsibility for supporting their
>                 families, even as they're given fewer opportunities to do so.
>                 Why are we obligated to support our spouses? Try to find a
>                 woman who feels that supporting her family is as much her
>                 responsibility as her husband's.

You mean starting with my mother, then moving on to my wife...
 
>            6.   Domestic violence. In Illinois, if a woman physically attacks
>          her husband (knives, guns, large objects, etc are commonly used
>          ) under a not-very-unusual state law, the husband has no right
>         of self defense. If he raises a hand against her, he goes up on
>         a battery charge. If he tries to press charges against her, the
>          police just laugh at him. I have yet to meet a woman who found
>          this at all unfair.

Get out some more.

>                 Politically incorrect and misogynistic without apology,

Not to mention incorrect in general...

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.dads-rights,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.child-support
From: mba@controls.ccd.harris.com (Belinda Asbell)
Subject: Re: I HAD NO CHOICE ( was: Biological reasons etc...
Originator: mba@sp1
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:12:03 GMT


In article <1992Dec11.144451.8946@bmw.mayo.edu>, bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron) writes:

|> Last time I looked, the 1040 (as well as applications for loans & credit
|> applications) ask about other sources of income, on of which is child support
|> payments. I also believe that you can take a deduction of a minor that does
|> not reside with you if you contribute some given dollar amount towards that
|> child's support. However, since I look at tax forms once a year, this is
|> from a hazy memory and I am willing to accept that I may be off-base on
|> this. Anyone know the actual IRS code on this?

Actually, the *custodial parent* is considered to have paid half of the upkeep of
the child (even if they don't), and thus gets to claim the kid.  In order for a 
non-custodial parent to claim the child, he has to either (a) enclose a copy 
of the MSA stating that he can claim the child as a dependent, or (b) get a 
signed Form 8282 (8283?) from the custodial parent saying he can claim the child
for that year. 

If an NCP tries to claim the child, the IRS will catch it.  I know.   My
husband's ex said she would send us an 8282, so we went ahead and claimed both
the children (the MSA says we could claim one).  She never sent it, and claims
she said nothing of the type.  We eventually had to end up paying $700 more than
we did originally.

One would logically assume that since the NCP is paying more than half of the
support (in our case, *all*), the NCP should claim them.

But logic doesn't apply, so she gets the tax break *and* tax-free money, since
child support is *not* a deduction.

Something is inherently wrong with this picture.
-- 
=============================================================================
Belinda Asbell        +  System Administrator, Harris Controls Division
mba@ccd.harris.com    +      Any opinions presented are mine alone.
  Good judgment comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgment.
Newsgroups: soc.men,talk.rape,alt.se
From: dlaro@lonestar.utsa.edu (David O. Laro)
Subject: Re: Vigilantes
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:52:24 GMT

lots and lots of stuff deleted for brevity.  You're welcome.

Actually, I think this stuff should be over on alt.guns, so I deleted many
of the newsgroups listed.

Mr Valentine had this thought:

>>    Would there be as many instances of "car-jacking" if most people
>>carried guns and knew how to use them, and a car-jacker knew that
>>he might have his worthless head splattered?

But here, DAME speaks:
(maybe Demian is a translation)

>>The question that continues to come to mind is "Are we safer by arming
>ourselves?"  I don't think so.

>Another fact- more Californians die by knives
>than all Canadians by ALL means COMBINED.

I'm not going to verify these figures, but WOW!  If true, does this mean I'll
have to "REGISTER my knives" soon?>


>As mentioned before, I will, if the time comes, fight/use violence to DEFEND
>myself,

Okay, here I'll add my comment:  you're gonna feel awfully inadequate when
that time comes if the goon you're defending yourself (or your family? Do they
merit defense too?) _against_ is maybe a Californian "knifist."   Or, perish
the thought, he is a gunsel.  Since you don't think we are safer by arming
ourselves, I mean.

Personally, I think you'd be safer with a small .357.      But...

When 'that segment' of the media/pac spokesmen take to the air and decry "the
evil days of the wild, wild, west,"  I think they are ridiculously misinformed.
Sure, there were shoot-em-ups in those days, but not to extent of our streets
today.  (my city, anyway.)

Actually, I believe the wild, wild, west was much more courteous **because**
most folks went armed.  I can't imagine riding one's horse, full gallop,
through a stop sign, shooting the finger at the other riders, because the other
riders _had guns_.  That behavior goes on now, and a lot worse, partly because
such offenders are 'anonymous and safe.'  No one is likely to know them,
and no one will shoot at them because guns are not allowed to be on the
streets (in my city.)

Sure, guns are on the street, but most of us won't draw and shoot at a petty
lawbreaker.   If everyone were armed, or at least likely to be armed, I
believe society would be a whole lot calmer and more polite.

And Dame concludes:>
>This is merely MY OPINION on this subject.  There are bound to be many others
>out there with their own opinions, and I'd love to hear them.
>
>                                                     - DAME
>
>*******************************************************************************


And, so, I've given a comment/opinion or two - my favorites, actually..

                     ----David, an ecology-minded person.
                        ******  (saving bandwidth, see))




Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.feminism
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revisited
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:51:08 GMT

In article <1gg7lvINN5mk@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>
>>What makes you think a man OR A WOMAN is obligated to stay with,
>>pursue, keep in touch with, observe, or continue any sort of
>>relationship with someone he or she has slept with?
>
>Common decency?  Sigh!  Perhaps it *is* an oxymoron.

"Common decency" in those cases where the people clearly have nothing
between them?

It seems you might suggest that a persistence akin to stalking
is the only way for a man to preserve his parental rights.

>>Did it occur to you that one or three night stands occur, that year-long
>>relationships end without the couple wanting to see each other again,
>>that men and women move out of town or get busy with work, that not 
>>every pair of sex partners has the same group of friends?
>
>Then why would these people be so het up about raising kids with
>this particular partner??

Because they are his children, that's why.  

Love and a sense of responsibility, that's why.

Common decency, that's why.


Are you actually so parochial that you think that any person who
has a one-night stand, who breaks up after a year-long relationship,
who moves away, or who fails to have the same group of friends as
a bed partner,  is incapable of love, responsibility, and decency?

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.dads-rights,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.child-support
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: I HAD NO CHOICE ( was: Biological reasons etc...
Followup-To: alt.flame
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:18:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.144451.8946@bmw.mayo.edu> bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron) writes:
>In article <2195@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>, bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            ) writes:

>|> Yes, I am "free" of all the time I used to spend with my kids... "free" from
>|> all those conversations we used to have over dinner, or while I was driving
>|> them to school... "free" from having to tuck them in at night... "free" from
>|> taking them out for halloween or seeing them open their christmas presents...
>|> "free" of hugs and greetings at the door, "free" from wiping up spilled milk,
>|> "free" from all those thousands of moments that make the difference between
>|> life with a family and life without one...  the only thing that I was not
>|> free to do was to TURN DOWN all this "freedom"... in that i had absolutely
>|> no choice... 
>|> 
>|> but naturally, haven been given all this "freedom" that i didn't want, the
>|> state naturally expects that i should pay for it... so i spent the past 
>|> three years living in a 9'x12' room, sharing a bathroom with twenty other
>|> people and cooking on a hot plate, while the state garnishes 35% of my 
>|> gross pay and gives it to my ex who now owns the home that I bought and 
>|> paid for...  sounds like a pretty good deal, eh?
>|> 
>|> personally, i don't give a rat's ass about 'reproductive choice', because i
>|> WANTED kids... i loved having them around... i didn't mind changing diapers
>|> or getting up early to help them get dressed for school... i was a good
>|> father, and i did my best to help them grow up strong and self-confident...
>|> my kids used to have a father, but now they have a visitor...
>|> 
>|> i just don't understand how the family courts can be so vicious and so
>|> ignorant... i can't help but wonder... did they have to take EVERYTHING??
>|> 
>
>So, are you objecting to supporting the children you wanted, or
>just pissed off that their mother left you?

>Bruce M. Cameron		bmc@mayo.edu

David Boucher speaks eloquently about his love for his children 
and his desire to be with them.

Bruce concludes David is complaining because he's either a deadbeat
or upset about his ex.

Bruce, either you can't read, or you have so many personal problems with
women that you can't imagine someone might be worried more about his
children than about an ex.

The ignorance and insensitivity amazes me.  But you can find other
people on the net who are so overwhelmed by losing their ex-girlfriend
or ex-boyfriend that they can't imagine that anyone might complain about
anything else.

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.dads-rights,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.child-support
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: I HAD NO CHOICE ( was: Biological reasons etc...
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:56:30 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL

In article <athos-111292122148@kip2-30.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.144451.8946@bmw.mayo.edu>, bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce
>Cameron) wrote:
>
>> So, are you objecting to supporting the children you wanted, or
>> just pissed off that their mother left you?
>
>Actually, it sounds like he's upset that he got a RAW DEAL from the state. 
>He not only lost his house and his kids, but he also gets to lose a big
>chunk of his income, keeping him from getting ahead again.  While his
>ex-wife gets to live in his house with his kids, he gets to live like a
>slave.  How nice.

THIS kind of story is the exact reason that I feel that all men should get
their butts off their chairs and make certain that our legal system is
reformed in this area.  DO IT RIGHT NOW.

If you are involved with any woman, married or not, you could be the next
gentleman in this position.  IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU GENTS.  

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revi (1)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:48:48 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL

In article <1go3qlINN2vr@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit) writes:
>
>>Does it make any change in your deep conviction that the
>>laws are fair toward men?
>
>Are the laws themselves unfair?  Or is it the interpretaton and
>application of the laws in the court system that are unfair?

The laws in the workplace have been legally fair for a long time.

Nonetheless, women have gained "affirmative action" in the workplace.  

Why not have it for men in the custody battle case until it is "fair" in
that case?

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
From: bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            )
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.dads-rights,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.child-support
Subject: Re: inequity in child support (was Re: I HAD NO CHOICE
Date: 13 Dec 1992 05:03:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <1ge2k7INNlr1@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:

>  [....]    What is your interpretation of how
>[anti-male bias] arose in our historically male-dominated
>court system?  

The desire of male judges to be regarded as "protectors" of women. 
  
   "Don't worry, little lady, I'll save you from that rotten brute."

Many men instinctively compete with other men for the attention and/or
admiration of women.  In fact, it seems as though most of the male-bashing
on usenet is perpetrated by men, with the unspoken reservation that of 
course the hateful stereotype does not apply to the speaker himSELF, but
rather is directed at those OTHER men -- those troglydytes!

 
    

Newsgroups: soc.men
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revisited
X-To: ALL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:38:00 GMT

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes...
WH> In article <1em1rfINNk9@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah P
WH>  writes:
WH> >times.  We should not demonize such people by calling them pigheaded.

WH>         But if someone looses his job, or decides that he's had enough of th
WH> big-bucks ratrace, he deserves jail for Not Supporting his Kids (and ex-spou
WH> ..

WH> >full cost of the children's transportation.

WH>         The man should pay.  That's what he's for.
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm...a little *too* heavy on the sarcasm, I'd gather...  :-)

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "My hair does not require trimming, you lunkhead!" - Data
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.feminism,soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Parental Notification Before Adoption...
X-To: DUANE HENTRICH
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:18:00 GMT

baba@samadhi.Tymnet.COM (Duane Hentrich) writes...
     ^^^^^^^
Har har...  Your machine name at Tymnet has reached enlightenment, then?  :-)

DH> In article <1g34toINNhn5@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah
DH> ) writes:
DH> |>  2) 'harder to ascertain the biological father'.  When child support is
DH> |>desired there usually is no difficulty in ascertaining who the father is.
DH> |>Why are there problems during the adoption process?
DH> |
DH> |Because in asccertaining child support someone (usually the mother)
DH> |names the father.  He is free to contest it, of course.
DH> |However, in adoption the oftentimes the father is not named.
DH> |The mother can't or won't give a name, and no man steps forth.
DH> |Of course, there is no law preventing him from stepping forth,
DH> |just usually no man does.

DH> This would only work if the man KNEW he had a child. Parental Notification
DH> anyone??


Damn right, Duane!

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Gravity: It's not just a fragrance, it's the LAW!
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Friday, 18 Dec 1992 01:16:19 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
Subject: I am looking for.....

Hello,

I'm looking for 'The theory of the liberation', the original is in Spanish
which is called 'La teoria de la liberacion'. Is there any way that I can
get that?. If you find or know something about it, please reply by mail. My
address is cmlee@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu
It doesn't matter, whether it is in Spanish or English.
I thank you in advance.  MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

Antonio
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: Circulating Reference Books
Keywords: reference books
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:21:05 GMT

In article <Bz3unr.MwK@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> cbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chris Syed) writes:
>   Hope you have an online system that tracks hourly loans... or a master
>   key to all the professors' offices... or... :-) :-) :-)
>
We have both, and I have no qualms about loaning reference books to a faculty
member.  Like most reference areas, ours contains a lot of material that
isn't consulted all that frequently.  Now, if a professor wants to borrow
the Encyclopedia of Associations or the OED, that's another question.
--Chuck Ten Brink

-- 
D'Angelo Law Library         "The dogmas of the quiet past are
cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu      inadequate to the stormy present. . .
uclcjt1@uchimvs1              We must disenthrall ourselves. . ."
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
From: davida@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Austin)
Subject: Are there any folks in IS programs out there?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:16:59 GMT


I would appreciate hearing from any folks in Information Science programs,
especially places like Pitt, Syracuse, etc.  What do you think of the program?
What kinds of research topics are you working on (for PhD students), etc.


Thanks,

David Austin
From: bs464@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Duncan R. McCoy)
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
Subject: Re: Circulating Reference Books
Date: 16 Dec 1992 03:59:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bs464@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Duncan R. McCoy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) says:

>
>  There is a move afoot here to allow circulation of reference
>materials.
>Currently we only allow faculty to have selected items for three
>hours for "show and tell".  The suggestion has been made to
>liberalize this policy.  We, here in reference, feel that this is
>a BAD idea.  What are your policies? experiences?
>

The point of having a noncirculating reference collection is so 
the library can ensure the presence of certain informational tools
for in-house use.

If a reference source is checked out, whether to student, faculty,
community patron or whoever, it won't be available to be consulted.

If you have a faculty member pressuring library staff to circulate
particular reference books, perhaps he or she should discuss it
with their subject bibliographer and spend some of the collection
development money for a circulating copy.

Duncan McCoy
Boulder City Library
Boulder City, NV

-- 
Duncan R. McCoy
Boulder City, NV
bs464@cleveland.freenet.edu
---------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
From: libloan@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Interlibrary Loan
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:52:33 GMT

     I am working at Utah Valley Community College and have recently
been put in charge of Interlibrary Loan.  We are currently in the
process of setting up the program and have not yet decided on a
database for keeping track of statistics.

     I am sending this message in hopes that someone out there
has the perfect database for me.  It would be of great help to me
if you could give me some information on the systems used in your
Libraries. (say pros and cons) We are what you would probably call
a small Library and the databases we have seen in this area are
geared towards the larger Universities.

     Any help you could give me would be great appreciated,
either by reply to Netnews or by E-Mail.  My E-Mail address is:
                 Libloan@uvmain.uvcc.edu

Nicole Sharp  
UVCC Interlibrary Loan
From: jburnett@pilot.njin.net (Jim Burnett)
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
Subject: Re: weird periodicals
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:24:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

This is a test.  Please disregard.