From: sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com (Mike Sunderland)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:02:46 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:

quoted stuff deleted ...

>Lucky you, not to have any idea of what the US religious right is up
>to, or what they really think about sex.

more quoted stuff deleted ...

>Ostrich head-in-the-sand attitude, hysterical demonization of the
>enemy, or a realistic appraisal of the current political situation?
>It's easy to figure out --- look at who wins the political battles.
>When the happy day comes that the religious right of the US is howling
>alone on the lunatic fringe of the political landscape, able no longer to
>disguise exactly what they want to do to this country by deluding the
>clueless, I'll stop worrying about them.

>Until then, I'll keep a sharp eye on those fascists.  BTW, comparing
>these vipers to tin-horn dictators like Hussein or Noriega is a waste
>of keystrokes.  The rise of Hitler in the Weimar republic is by far
>the most relevant comparison.

>   If you want to be stereo-typed and caricatured then go right ahead
>   and keep on doing what your doing now, because it makes you sound
>   like a raving bloody loony.  If you want to foster some
>   understanding and honesty, then be ready to listen and be listened
>   to. 

>Is someone actually paranoid if "they" are really out to get him?  How
>do you know what US fundies are like?  I eagerly await a recitation of
>your credentials.  "It sounds crazy" simply isn't good enough.  The
>"It sounds crazy, it can't be real" attitude has led to complacency
>and unpleasant defeats at the polls.

>For instance, when do you think the last "monkey trial" (court case
>over inclusion of evolution in public school curriculum) happened in
>the US?

>The Overton case was decided in 1982 (no, I did not get the date
>wrong).  Another related case was decided shortly thereafter.  In the
>Overton case, a state law mandating equal time for "scientific
>creationism" and evolution in biology classes was struck down.

>In case you haven't heard of "scientific creationism", that is what
>the religious right calls their brand of biblical literalism:  The
>Earth was created in 4004BC, there really was a Flood (did you know
>these loons write papers about "flood geology" in an attempt to
>explain away basic geological facts to fit their biblical timetable),
>etc., etc., ad infinitum.

>   And BTW, isn't there a lot more to life than seeking
>   pleasurable experiences?  

>Do what you will with your life.  But do you actually presume to judge
>what other people do with their lives when such activities don't
>affect you?  If so, you'd fit right in with the religious right, right
>here in the good ol' USofA.

>- Bob

So what do I have to do to qualify? ;-)

Seriously though, what is it that pisses you off about the "religious right"
so much? I mean what makes the religious right the bad guys?

Ok, they hold a world view that is probably seriously at odds with yours.
They think you are doing something morally wrong in having sex with a partner
of the same gender as yourself. AND they want to make sure that everybody
hears about what they have to say about it. Are they wrong just because they
disagree with you and disaprove of something that you hold very dear, or is
there more to it than that? And what does all this creationism stuff have to
do with the subject?? Enlighten me.

BTW, on the judgement thing - am I not allowed to hold an opinion about what
other people do just because their activities don't affect me? If I don't like
what you do does that mean I am judging you? Is it ok for me to believe that
some things are open to personal preference while some other things are not?

I'm not trying to stir up a flame war or poke fun at anyone, but I do want to
understand. I am often annoyed when I see people talking and acting as though 
sexual immorality were the only kind of immorality - ignoring things like
greed, corruption, dishonesty and all kinds of injustice. But I think maybe you
have some other concerns?

--

Mike Sunderland			sunderland@obvius.stl.dec.com
Customer Support Centre
Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty Ltd
Sydney Australia
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