HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Subject: Re: Cheap open wheel racing
Reply-To: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:39:43 GMT


In article <a#9mxcp.esprit@netcom.com>,
 esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
 
|> Is there any organization or location or formula or whatever where one
|> can do some cheap open wheel racing?  

Any phrase including the two words "cheap" and "racing" together is an
oxymoron.

Some racing is less expensive than other racing, no matter what form you
chose you will soon find you want to spend more than you really wanted to
spend before you started.

|> I have no clue about what kind of open wheel racing is done in the U.S.

When you say "racing" do you mean to imply wheel to wheel competition?
I infer you do, from the distinctly separate question about autocross.
So, for entry level openwheel racing, there are about three major categories:
karts, road racing (mostly SCCA small formula cars), and small oval dirt 
tracks (mostly insane, IMHO as a sometime SCCA formula ford racer :-).

Also, define what you mean by "cheap"?  There is an FVee advertised on the
net recently for $1800 (dropped from $2500).  Club formula fords can be
purchased around $6k to $8k, but I'd plan to spend another $2k to $3k on
prepping one of them after I bought it.  Running costs will total a couple
of hundred bucks per event, more or less.  (Mine were less, but my level of
preparation and competitiveness was not high.)  I have no idea what karts 
cost to buy or run.

 
|> Also, is there any place where relaxed slaloms/autocross is done?
|> Every event that I have been to is so "professional" that I really
|> don't feel comfortable since I am really more interested in
|> practicing than competing at this time.

Where are you located?

The "relaxed" attitude is a reflection of you and your approach as well
as the organization and other competitors.  From my experience with SCCA
racing it will depend on the region running the event - even at the same
track it will vary depending on which region is running that particular
weekend.  From what I hear the West Coast is worse than the rest of the
country - at least enough that I have no particular desire to ever race
or work events there.  But then, I do it for the fun of it, not to feed
my ego or anyone else's...

I know you can get that attitude almost anywhere if you look for it.  If
you find an organization that doesn't make you feel welcome or eager to
come back, vote with your feet!

Good luck, and if you're ever in the Northeast, try to visit a 
New England Region SCCA event - "for the fun of it!"

--bruce
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: F1: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:34:44 GMT


roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto) writes:
> Actually, Emerson Fittipaldi has run his own team (together with his brother 
> Wilson - Christian's father) from middle 70's until early 80's (82 or 83).
> His best result was a second place in Brazil (78?).

Towards the end of the career of Team Fittipaldi, they were getting close to
being mobile chicanes.  Keke Rosberg, the 1982 World Champion (in a Williams)
had trouble qualifying in a 1981 Fittipaldi...

[ \tom haapanen  | "only bullfighting, mountain climbing and motor racing are ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca |  sports -- all others are only games" -- ernest hemingway  ]
[ waterloo engineering software |     "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rob@gdfwc3.UUCP (Rob Walls)
Subject: Re: Indy Car events remaining this year
Reply-To: gdfwc3!rob@uunet.uu.net
Organization: General Dynamics, Fort Worth Division
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:42:35 GMT



>Does anyone have a schedule of dates of the remaining Indy Car
>races this year ?  If so, could they post/mail it please ?

>Thanks.

>Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mchivers@uniwa.oz.au

Anthony,

Here is the remaining IndyCar World Series schedule for 1992:


Date	Event						Televised Time
	Track / Location				(All ESPN)
----	------------------------------------		-------------------

8/23	Texaco Havoline 200				4:30pm EDT (Delay)
	Road America / Elkhart Lake, WI, USA

8/30	Molson Indy Vancouver				4:30pm EDT (Live)
	Pacific Place / Vancouver, B.C., Can. 

9/13	Pioneer Electronics 200				1:00pm EDT (Live)
	Mid-Ohio / Lexington, OH, USA

10/4	Bosch Spark Plug Grand Prix			9:00pm EDT (Delay)
	Penna. Intl. Raceway / Nazareth, PA, USA

10/18	Toyota Monterey Grand Prix			8:00pm EDT (Delay)
	Laguna Seca / Monterey CA, USA

?	Marlboro Challenge				?
	Penna. Intl. Raceway / Nazareth, PA, USA


All dates are Sunday in the US.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Walls					      gdfwc3!rob@uu.uu.net
Mission Planning Software	    General Dynamics - Fort Worth Division
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Junior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:44:51 -0400 
From: Donald Jackson Pickett <dp32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Speeds at Le Mans, Rondeau, Rondel (was: Mazdas @ Bonneville)

Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.sport: 15-Aug-92 Speeds at Le Mans,
Rondeau,.. by Robert Marti@nugget.inf. 
> In article <183085@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com
> (Dan Jones) writes:
> |> And what was the fastest speed ever turned at LeMans?  I'm thinking
that a 
> |> Rondel (sp?) got into the low 250's at one point.
>  
> I think this is correct. However, as far as I remember, the car was
> called a Rondeau (pronounced something like Rondoh, with the "on"
> actually a singly nasal "o").  I believe they used Ford-Cosworth
> DFV V8 powerplants.  

I thought that Pougeot was the first team to oficially hit 250mph at Le
Mans - it was the (supposed) impetus for building the chicanes. 

An idea: Instead of slowing the cars with those damn chicanes, why not
remove them and put JM Balestre, bound and gagged, on the macadam about
2/3 of the way down the straight? The cars would either have to slow
down or go around him . . .

Don
---
dp32@andrew.cmu.edu                     Gregory Peck/Hunter Thompson in '92. 
"We have bad news for you - Hell just froze over."
         - excerpt of a recent letter from home.
From: roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:53:16 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.5

James Montebello (james@Bridge.COM) writes:

| As far as recent history goes (say, after 1980), I don't believe there
| have been any driver-owned teams in F1 at all, let alone successful 
| ones.

Actually, Emerson Fittipaldi has run his own team (together with his brother 
Wilson - Christian's father) from middle 70's until early 80's (82 or 83).
His best result was a second place in Brazil (78?).

Roberto Barros
From: stevens@b56vxg.kodak.com (THOM STEVENS)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Home Boyz & Racing Misc.
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:51:00 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester NY
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug10.163805.566@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes...
> ....
> 
>And wondering about them racing to the yellow at the finish.  Shephard
>was really doing a number blocking Martin.  Then with just a couple
>turns to go, Martin waving frantically at Irvan (who was behind) that he
>was slowing, then Irvan slipping by outside of Martin.  Hmmm.....well
>Mark, that's racin'.
> 
>-cannonball-

I had Martin on my scanner and after they took the yellow, Martin kept talking
about Shephard "stopping" in front of him like that.  He kept saying "I don't 
understand why he stopped like that".  I guess it really caught him off-guard, 
and he had everything he could do to prevent from running over Shephard.    

I don't know how well you could see on it TV, but it was pretty wet in spots, 
and I would guess that Shephard didn't want to crash.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:06:15 GMT

>quoting Duane

>i'm not so sure about the "superior car" notion any more...
>without elf's magic molecules, and with mclaren using
>traction control of engine response, things seemed a bit
>closer (recognizing that patrese was still out in front with
>a commanding lead for a while there...let's face it, the
>guy was desparate)
>
>
It still looks like the Williams have the legs of the field.
RP looked impressive until he had his moment.
Ole Nige looked impressive until he decided to play smart and win the WC.
The best racing was Berger, Hakkinen and the Benetton Boys.
It looked like the Benettons were being held up by the McLaren.
Until the end of the straight, where there seemed to be an advantage to
the McLaren.

Too bad about Schumacher's wing separation.

>
>re: prost comments about senna's sexual preferences...any
>one have any details?  anyone care to quote from the article?
>
>duane

According to ESPNs GOBs, Prost retracted just about everything he
was claimed to have said -- even gave Senna the go-ahead to sue the
publisher. Does this mean we'll see Prost/Senna together again? If so,
where?

There have been repeated references to Senna's homosexuality. This
was one of the things Piquet didn't like about Senna.  But who cares?
What difference does it make if/that Senna likes boys?

The Senna fans will continue to support Senna. The Senna haters will
just have more reasons to flame Senna. BORING.

Forza!
From: dss@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Hungary etc
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:17:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

> Anyone else think it was the best race of the season so far?

Yes!  And so unexpected because the Hungaroring usually creates
such a processional race - two hours of nothing very interesting...
Perhaps FISA will change their mind about dropping this venue as of
next season.  I suppose there was added interest because of the
"will Mansell clinch the championship here" question as his position
yo-yoed during the race.  Also, nice to see Martini getting a stop-go
penalty for blocking Mansell (watch out Grouillard!).  And the
"safety car" fiasco also added interest.

> Berger, for my tastes, tried a little TOO hard to squeeze nige

Typical Berger (or should that be "Barger"?)

> Amazing to see the *instant* loss of control when Schumachers tail went

Lucky it happened on the straight - if it had let go on a high speed
corner the consequences could have been much more serious.

> It would be interesting to know why he [Mansell] dogged it so badly
> at the start

Aren't Williams using their traction control device?  Yet Mansell
consistently spins the wheels at the start.  Is it possible that
he refuses to use it - perhaps he is letting Patrese try it out until
he knows it is reliable?  Is that why Patrese has been making better
starts.  However, in a BBC interview at the weekend, Mansell said
that he made a bad start in Germany because "the computer changed up
far too early".  What was he talking about?

Senna's remark to James Hunt was that he would drive for Williams
for $23M less than Mansell.  Could be expensive for Senna if Mansell
signs for less than that figure :-)  In a radio interview on Monday
morning, Frank Williams said that the line-up might not be known
until Christmas (likely story!).  On a BBC programme last night
Mansell himself said that he very much wanted to drive for Williams
next season, and that he wasn't intending to take up golf full-time
for a few years yet!

Senna must be getting worried about his drive for next season; if
Williams already have Mansell and Prost, McLaren may be losing their
Honda engines, and there's no way that Ferrari could have a competitive
car before 1994.  Perhaps he would do well to sign up for Benetton
for a season, and re-assess the situation next year.
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Stuff
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:26:24 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hi Racers

Just got off the phone with my contact at Williams F1 and i will try to
give you the basis of our conversation.

Alan,   Is Prost efinatly driving next year
Contact,  Officially no-one has signed anything
Alan, What about mansell
Contact, No-one has signed
Alan, Cmon tell me summat
Contact, What am i supposed to say
Alan, Prost reckons he has signed, has he
Contact, mmmmmmmmmmm
Alan, What about mansell
Contact, Not signed anything


And so the conversation went, the mmmmmmm was an up and down tone 
intimating a yes. Basically as i said two months ago Prost will
be driving a williams next year but who with is the stumbling block.
What i was told is that Frank is calling a Press conferance shortly
(approx 1 week) to announce both drivers at once. Also time limits
apparantly have been put on "people" to sign or not. Ayrton Senna
got a "probably not" answer about driving.

Well there you have it as of 10 mins ago from a high ranking person
in Williams.

More when i know.

Alan
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:53:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups


In article <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com>, dafuller@sequent.com
(David Fuller) writes:
|> I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
|> the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.
|> 
|> I think that it's stifling discussion of a broad range of topics that
|> should be discussed in a "sporting" automotive group.
|> 
|> I don't have it in for F1 but I think that the group is suffering
|> greatly from an unstated specialization.  Being a fan of a broad range
|> of racing (hey, Sunday is racing day, I look at the F1 tape, I tune 
|> into NASCAR, I go to as many events as I can, including prototype races),
|> I believe I am not being well served by this group.
|> 
|> I think that the F1 clan deserves its own sandbox and I am willing to
|> facilitate this (boy am I going to regret this).
|> 
|> What do you say?


	Well said !! I'm an avid F1 fan and am fed up with wading through
	loads of "Re: reliable cars" and all this Nascar (what is it ?) stuff.
	
	Please create a F1 only group.

	Please, please, please, please, please, please !!!!

	Thankyou.

	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rainer_Hauer@mindlink.bc.ca (Rainer Hauer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Electric Cars
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:02:53 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world



Hi Folks,

It seems to me that with all the talk that's taken place recently on different
newsgroups (rec.autos, sci.environment etc..) as well as impending
legislation in California and all the research that's taking place in
car companies etc, that it would be a good idea if a group was created
specifically for this class of vehicle.
Suggested topics could include:
Relative pollution levels between electric and combustion vehicles ( to be
turned into a FAQ?).
Current vehicles available (US and worldwide)
Current News articles
Town planning w.r.t electric vehicles
Legal aspects (e.g. crash resistance, or lack of it!)
etc,etc.

The group could be called something like rec.autos.electric.

How about it then, anybody interested in a group like this ?
===========================================================================
 Send a short response vote to   rainer_hauer@mindlink.bc.ca

               Subject: electric car vote
======================================================================

--
======================================================================
 Contact   rainer_hauer@mindlink.bc.ca
=====================================================================
From: spenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (S. Spenser Aden)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna in 1993
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:31:09 GMT
Organization: Flight Data and Evaluation Office

In article <Bt54Az.7u4@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>In article <93845@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>>Where did you people hear that Senna said he'd drive for Williams
>>for free?
>Spot the subtle distinction:
>        Senna would drive a Williams for free.
>                            ^^^^^^^^
>        Senna won't drive a Ferrari  for $25M.
>                            ^^^^^^^

Simply as a matter of support ... I heard the LATTER on the broadcast.  I too 
would like to know where this driving for free was heard.  I distinctly remember
the point that Seena would NOT drive Farrari for $25M.

-Spenser
-- 
--
S. Spenser Aden --- Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. --- (713) 483-2028
NASA --- Flight Data and Evaluation Office --- Johnson Space Center, Houston
spenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (Internet) --- Opinions herein are mine alone.
From: nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:56:28 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:


>In article <71Nx03HU60Gl00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>,
>nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon) writes:
>|>
>|>winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>|>>[...]  The way Berger set up Mansell and caught him napping
>|>>was masterful.
>|>
>|>and in the other pass, either Mansell made an error
>|>or the car faltered momentarily.

>It didn't look like there was any faltering of the car. It looked like Mansell
>simply didn't think he had to protect his line in that corner because he
>didn't think Berger would try anything there, when in fact Berger had been
>trying odd lines through that corner off and on.  Berger saw an opportunity
>and seized it with both hands.

Well, I double-checked the ESPN tape (around lap 30) and Berger was not
particularly close behind Mansell on entry to the corner. Mansell turned
in, then jogged right (straight on really) taking a much wider line than
he intended. Hobbs speculated that Mansell (or the semi-auto) might have
missed a gearshift.  I agree Berger seized his opportunity, but it was
handed to him on a plate.

There's been speculation (other articles) that Senna's CAR seemed faster
on the front straight than Berger's (Mansell able to pass Berger twice,
but didn't get near passing Senna). I suggest that Senna takes the final
turn faster (better driver) and thus carries more speed (and distance ahead)
onto the straight. To get by Senna, Mansell has to take the last corner
almost perfectly, while timing his move to be as close behind Senna at
the turn exit as possible. On the few real attempts he made, he didn't
get it close enough. Has anyone ever passed Senna down the front straight
at Hungaroring?

An interesting new thread would be any stats on passes for position,
both as passer and passee.
Who is the "passingest" driver (to coin a phrase!-)?
Who is the "least passed" driver?
Stats for passes for the lead, may be easier to come by, although
filtering out position switches due to pit stops is a problem.

Dave Nixon
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: neoh@ee.mu.OZ.AU (cheow hee neoh)
Subject: F1 tires and teams
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering - University of Melbourne 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:36:29 GMT



Okay, here are two questions for all you F1 petrolheads out there:

 i. How does a tire get blistered? And, can a tire return to its 'unblistered'
    state if the driver takes it easy for the next few laps??

ii. Is a team allowed to field more than two cars on the grid on raceday??

What do you all think of Senna's rearward facing on-board camera in Hungary??
I couldn't see anything much apart from the huge Marlboro rear wing. You could 
catch a glimpse of the guy behind only in the chicanes. I prefer the shot from
Martin Brundle's car in Adelaide in '89 although about all you could see then 
was water everywhere! 
Do all the other teams not having an on board camera have to carry some sort of
a ballast to compensate for the weight??


Kev.


*************************************************************************
*e-mail add.								*
*	neoh@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au		"To be the best of the best 	*
*					 means you make mistakes and 	*
* Go Senna Go!!				 then you go on." -Top Gun      *
*************************************************************************
From: rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:56:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: dracut.1992Aug20.015631.8313
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Originator: rbt@dracut

In article <1144@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
> 
> Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
> is not on this list. While Enzo Ferrari raced cars in the '20s, he
> never drove his own cars, which he didn't start making until after the
> war. 
> 
What???????????????
How do you think Lotus got started? While I don't believe Chapman ever
drove (in a race ) any of his F1 cars, he certainly drove his early
trials cars, and I believe Lotus XI. 

Once he built his first car in 1947, I don't believe Chapman drove anybody
else's cars!

But as far as F1 goes, Chapman had drivers working for him by the time
he got 'round to F1.

-Bob T.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: senna
Originator: kevinh@mira
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:00:26 GMT


In article <AJGAM.92Aug20145126@sabrina.sabrina>, ajgam@sabrina.sabrina (Antonio Jorge Marques) writes:

|> 
|>  But Senna this year doens't have a competitive car but he still
|> manage to win some races too ...
|> 
|>  
|> *--------------------[ ajgam@sabrina.inesc.pt ]--------------------*

Rubbish, he just doesn't have THE most competitive car. The engine he 
has, still the most powerful, has enabled him to stay right up the
Williams rear end - or in front sometimes. 

I suppose he has the second most competitive car?

The catch for the other drivers is is method of blocking, like it or not. How
many times this year have we seen a queue of cars waiting to get by him
on the corners??

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers)
Subject: Indy Car events remaining this year
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:21:54 GMT

Hi,

Does anyone have a schedule of dates of the remaining Indy Car
races this year ?  If so, could they post/mail it please ?

Thanks.

Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mchivers@uniwa.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development |
Perth, Western Australia      | - When you read this, laugh -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport