From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Re: Mach 3.0 on 386/486
Summary: still waiting for honest complaint against mt Xinu
Organization: eklektix - Boulder, Colorado
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:51:28 GMT

nerd@percival.rain.com (Michael Galassi) writes:
[about my reply to ignore the fellow insisting "Do NOT...buy Mach from Mt.
Xinu!!..."]

[various bugs--freopen, FP, shadow passwords not supported, nslookup]

These may or may not be good points, depending on some combination of
  (a) Did mt Xinu introduce the bug? (mostly no, as far as I can tell).
  (b) How long has the bug been open?
  (c) is it really a bug, or just a lacking feature (such as shadow pass-
      words?...which, for example, aren't in the latest version of SunOS
      that I have to administer either.)
  (d) What have you done about it and what has been the response?
In other words, if you get a big enough chunk of software, it *will* have
bugs.  The issues have not to do with whether there are bugs, but how they
are treated.  Are the important ones fixed first?  What sort of response do
you get?

>...When bugs are fixed, there is no way to get
>the fixes unless you have their overpriced autosupport (Sun, SCO, and
>HP all make fixes available over the internet.

Hmmm...you have to pay for mt Xinu to do work for you...imagine that! 
These folks are so terrible, they won't work for free!

Hmph.
Pay now or pay later.
You can pay a lot and get free support, or you can pay a little and pay for
the rest of what you get, as you get it. TANSTAAFL.

>>Actually, I ran Mach/386 for a fair while (not running it currently, only
>>because I have 2 more operating systems than machines!) and found it to be
>>a quality system...
...
>I find it telling that you are not running it now,...

OK, what does it tell you?  Bloody hell, I tried to load it on my VCR, but
the diskettes just dropped down inside!  Now I've got to pay someone to
defloppyize my VCR.

You think you "find it telling"; in fact you find nothing because you don't
know the situation.  Shut up about it.  If I could run Mach/386, I would.

>...if I could afford
>BSDI's product I would not be running this stuff either.

If you can afford Mach/386, you can afford BSD/386.  They're both in the
same price range.  Please explain.

In fact, I am lucky enough to be able to afford both.  They are both
quality products.  They serve different (but overlapping) purposes.
eklektix has three OS licenses and one machine.  The OS running on that
machine (raven) is the third choice of "what to run".

>>Second, because you might want support, and CMU isn't in the support biz.
>>That's why they arranged with mt Xinu to do the commercial version.
>
>support?  mt Xinu?  I laugh in your general direction.

Well, go ahead and laugh.  You know what they say about people who laugh
for no apparent reason.

OK, get serious.  Put up or shut up.  You're slamming good people, and
you're the second person to do it without the slightest shred of evidence.
If you've got some valid complaint against mt Xinu, let's hear it and
examine it.  I (and I think, most others here) are willing to hear a
real complaint and examine it honestly.  I have no emotional investment in
mt Xinu, BSDI, or any other vendor.  (Most recently I worked for a competi-
tor of both of them.)  But I'm not going to say mt Xinu (or BSDI or
whoever) is bad just because you stand around honking your nose at them.

I've seen far more good, and a far better product, from mt Xinu (and BSDI)
than from any of the mainstream commercial OS vendors.
-- 
Dick Dunn    rcd@raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado
				Cats!