HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: All-Time Oakland A's Team
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:31:54 GMT

In article <17DEC199212323537@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.192725.18039@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>>In article <838@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>> 
>>Sheesh, Billy Martin really did decimate his pitching staff, didn't he?
>>The 1980-81 A's had really amazing starting pitching, and they all blew
>>their arms out.
>
>	The problem is, it *wasn't* that amazing; it was only because
>Billy pitched them so bleeping often that they put up sort of OK win
>totals.  Rick Langford?  Wasn't he the guy who, in 240 innings, gave up
>about 280 hits and didn't strike out 100 men?  That's bad in any language,
>no matter how many wins he got, because he also lost about 15 in 1980.

Jason, Langford had this year in 1982, after a good 80-81, but he
pitched to about 35 batters per game in 80-81; that is a monstrously
high level.

>	Steve McCatty might have been good (the first pitcher ever to
>throw a no-hitter for me in a Strat-O-Matic game!), but he was always hurt.
>	Brian Kingman and Matt Keough were also just average, and turned
>bad after Martin finished with them.  The only one I'm not sure about
>is Mike Norris ... he might have been good at one time.  Didn't he have
>a drug problem or something
>
>>-- 
>>ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
>>standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
>>the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jason A. Miller				|		Kill Tanana!
>============================================================================
>"doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu"		|		"some doctor guy"
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>	Honestly.  Frank Tanana.  Yuck.

It looks like Billy Martin followed the Steve Stone theory of having
one great year instead of a long average career. All five of them
pitched better in 80-81 than they did in the two years before or
after, as measured by adjusted ERA. All had higher BFP/G in 80-81 than
they had in the two years before or after. All had 311+ innings in the
1 and 2/3 seasons of 80-81; Keough led all 5 with 309 IP in 82-83.

               1978-79        1980-81             1982-83
           AERA IP   BFP/G   AERA  IP   BFP/G  AERA  IP  BFP/G
Langford   100  395  23.9     117  485  34.6    88  257  29.2
McCatty     91  206  23.5     122  408  31.4    98  296  22.4
Norris      77  195  21.1     128  457  33.5    90  255  25.2
Keough      99  374  27.1     120  390  31.2    71  309  23.7
Kingman     90  113  26.9     95   311  27.4    87  128  22.4

Martin, or the pitching coach, must have been doing something right to
get the improved performances from these guys, but just as clearly
their effectiveness fell afterwards.

Clay D.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Now onto more important things...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:04:29 GMT

In article <11DEC199209272390@utarlg.uta.edu>, b706zdj@utarlg.uta.edu (Jason Brown) writes:
|> Any idea where Ruben Sierra might sign? I've heard that the ChiSox have 
|> expressed some interest in him.

My guess is that he'll end up in Oakland. Now that the A's won't be paying 
Moore or Stewart, maybe they can afford Sierra.

Not that there's going to be a '93 season.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: All-Name League (was RE: All-Henderson Team)
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:11:37 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <15DEC92.03193833@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>
>Presenting:
>
>*The Clan Henderson*
>Motto: "Sola virtus nobilitat" (Hit 'em where they ain't)
>
>Dave Henderson
>Ken Henderson
>Rickey Henderson
>Steve Henderson
>Bernie Henderson (0-1 in 1921)
>Bill Henderson (0-0 in 1930)
>Ed Henderson (1-1 in 1914)
>Hardie Henderson (81-121 from 1883-'88)
>Joe Henderson (3-2 from 1974-'77)
>
>Our opponents in the All-Name League:  The Smith Brothers, The
>James Gang, The Jolly Millers, The Vodka Collins (well, maybe the
>League wouldn't approve of that name), The Fabulous Baker Boys...
>there must be more...?
>
I don't have at hand the reference books needed to do this thread
justice, but off the top of my head, I'd say the All-Williams team
(Ted, Billy, Ken, Cy, Matt, Stan,...) looks pretty good.  The
All-Robinson team (Jackie, Frank, Brooks,...) should contend, too.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Brave staff greatest in recent history?
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:40:15 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In <476@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:

|>Thus spake cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman):
i>> [wondering about the Braves have a poor year in 1993]

Ask the 1992 Reds about injuries.  Any team can be gone in a hurry.

|>Sure.  Glavine and/or Maddux gets hurt.  Raphael Belliard, Sid Bream, Brian
|>Hunter, Mark Lemke, Damon Berryhill, and Otis Nixon all get significant
|>playing time, with Nixon reverting to his .300 OBP days.  Keith Mitchell,
|>Ryan Klesko, and Jeff Blauser ride the bench a lot.  Justice reinjures his
|>back.  Gant never quite makes it back to his peak form.  If all of these
|>happen, they won't even contend.  If two or three happen, they won't win
|>100 games.

I have already seen what Glavine looks like hurt, no thanks!

I am guessing that the thinking on Klesko is "not ready to hit in the ML", and
why waste the Hunter/Bream platoon for one more year.  Hunter just has too
much power to ignore for next year and Klesko still is not "there".  We will
see in West Palm in Feb.

Why would Blauser ride the bench?  He was one (if not the most) important
hitters for the Braves in late August and September of 1992.  I would suspect
an injury to have to sideline him to seriously cut into his playing.
Additionally, when I consider Lemke playing...well I like having Blauser
bat more than Belliard.

Olson/Berryhill hitting = nothing positive to say there.

Ouch!  Stop rubbing it in about Nixon verus Mitchell :-).  Now here is a
post WS question Mitchell vs Sanders.  I think that Mitchell is even more
deserving of a chance after watching Gant at the end of the season.
Lets hope that the Doc really knows what is wrong with Justice's back.

|>With this kind of pitching staff, I say go with the no-defense lineup.  Score
|>those 900 runs, and blow the league away:
|
|>	CF	Sanders
|>	LF	Mitchell
|>	RF	Justice
|>	1B	Gant
|>	3B	Pendleton
|>	SS	Blauser
|>	C	Cabrera
|>	2B	Lemke
|>	P	who cares?

Lets do it.  Cabrera will probably be around.  Looks like Lopez is at AAA
for another year.

|>Wanna go for the all-time record?  Sign Mark McGwire, and trade Ron Gant,

Don't think they are going to do it.

|>Kent Mercker, and Chipper Jones for Chuck Knoblauch or Craig Biggio.

I am drooling all over the floor.  I am having a hard time deciding which
one I want more.  Ok, make it Biggio; since, Houston is starting to worry me.

|>Let's see... team ERA of about 3.00, call it 3.2 runs per game allowed.
|>Score about 5 runs per game... That's a .710 winning percentage or so.
|>Call it 115-47.  You might get those 5 20-game winners after all...

Lets hope for 95 wins and see what happens.

-- 
Mike Marler                        | "Saving every nickel to spend on my
Internet: ccastmm@prism.gatech.edu |  my next set of thrills..." -somebody
Disclaimer: These views are not and should not be viewed as those of OIT.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz)
Subject: Re: Mattingly discussion, take 2.
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:08:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.161922.25289@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.055227.4101@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz) writes:
>
>Is that fair to all the better first-basemen?  Gold gloves are generally
>awarded by reflex...

When I said what I did about his defensive abilities, I left it as a given
that he has the best relexes. There have been many times that, while watching
on both Yankee TV and National (ESPN) TV, Kevin Maas missed a ball (as in
dove for it but didn't get it) and the announcers said that Mattingly would
have had it if he had been in the field. There is no first baseman with a
better arm or better range or better mental abilities than Don Mattingly.

>>I say bat him third. With Williams and Boggs batting ahead of him, he is
>>going to have a lot more runners on base than he's had in the last few years.
>
>Will he make fewer outs because of that?   This is the problem, after
>all; and making outs with men on is no better than making outs with the
>bases empty.  I say bat him sixth, and get someone who gets on more
>often to hit third.  
>
At worst, he'll hit .280; At best, he'll hit .350; realistically, if
he is finally healthy, he'll hit around .310. None of these figures is
that bad for a third place hitter, especially one who has a great career
average with men on base.
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NUMBER 24
Date: 11 Dec 1992 21:20:37 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <09DEC92.17226311.0079@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CCDB@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCDB)  
writes:
>     Giants unretire Willie Mays number 24, this ranks up there
> with The New York Yankees unretiring Babe's  or Dimagio's numbers.
> There is no way anyone who ever saw Willie play can speak of
> Barry Bonds in the same breath, either in ability Home Runs, Base
> stealing, speed and fielding. Class was left out because Bonds has
And Mays wasn't as good as Barry at reaching base or base stealing
(if you can claim that one for Mays I can certainly claim it for Bonds)
Bonds might not be Mays in the field, but he's very good.
And how many season did Mays have that Matched Bonds' 1992?
and Bonds' 1990,1991 seasons were pretty good too.
> none and Mays, Banks, Clemente and Dimagio, these were men of
> outstanding ablility, excitement and class. These men were baseball!
> Barry Bonds whining and complaining, show off home run watch a poor
> comparison. 
How many times has Bonds' cap flown off when he fields a fly ball?
(speaking of showing off...)
Clemente used to take all sorts of flak for his attitude
(That 'lazy latino') and Dimaggio was roasted for his late 1930s salsry  
holdout.
> Bonds is a very good player but nowhere near matches Mays
> for excitement, its a sad day for Giant Fans for baseball everywhere
> when someone can ask to use Willie mays number just shows that the
> one thing Barry Bonds lacks is CLASS not CRASS.
> 
>    BOBBY YOUR A JERK JUST TO ASK  !!!
Did he ask? Or did the Giants (or Mays) offer?

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: fair is fair: i believe cone
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:29:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec09.194822.11715@bmerh85.bnr.ca> sunils@bmerh703.bnr.ca (Sunil Sanwalka) writes:
>nly thing cone is sincere about is the big bucks,
>all the other stuff is bullsh*t. The reason he signed with KC
>is that they made him an incredible offer that nobody else could match.

And the Yankees couldn't find a bargaining table if it jumped up, bit them
in the butts and told them that it was a bargaining table!!

>That offer included a 9 million signing bonus. i.e all the money 
>upfront, thus if the onwers lock out the players he still has his 9 mil.

And if he suspects that the policies of the Willy Clinton administration
will raise taxes, he pays his taxes at the 1992 rates, not 1993's.

>There's no way the jays could afford to put up the 9 mil plus another 3mil in
>salary, out of this years budget for cone or any player.

The Blue Jays are owned by Labatts, eh?  I don't think Labatts is that
bad off that if they really wanted to make a deal with Cone that they
couldn't have figured something out to make sure he gets signed.
-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@quads.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Brian Dorsett
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:04:47 GMT

In article <18DEC199212052600@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>	Dorsett probably sucks.
>	But, 2 years ago, what did all you guys say about that 33 year-old
>castoff, retread, and nobody, Skeeter Barnes?

Same thing.

Let me know when he has a full season worth talking about.  Won't happen.

Anyone can have 200 spectacular at bats.  See, for example, Dan Gladden's
first season in the majors.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Worrell to the Dodgers!!!!
Date: 11 Dec 1992 11:53:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu


David Grabiner writes:

|> Butler should lead off; Offerman had only a .331 OBP, and his 23 for 39
|> on the basepaths last year hurt the team.  I'd drop Offerman to seventh
|> or eighth, and move Davis toward the top if he is healthy.
|> 

The only way to develop a potentially great leadoff hitter is to leave him
there, not drop him to seventh.  When Offerman was moved to the top of the
lineup, he really took off.  I'm sure his stats were in a different world
when he was leading off.  Butler was also a monster hitting second.  In
any case, the Dodgers are committed to leaving Offerman at the top.  He
showed plenty of promise with the bat.  


Daniel



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: NUMBER 24
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:01:55 GMT
Organization: Boo!  

In <1992Dec11.221919.2956@holos0.uucp> lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes:

>In article <20004@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> itlm013@george.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman) writes:

>>I think that Bonds is every bit
>>the player Mays was - both were top of the heap.  

>Well, I don't think Barry Bonds is every bit the player that Mays was.
>Willie Mays hit 660 home runs.  Some claim that Willie Mays was the
>greatest ever to play the game.  (I would dispute that.)

>Barry Bonds may be the best right now, but that doesn't necessarily
>put him in Mays' class.  This is not to say that baseball is worse now
>than in the "good ol' days."  It just says that some eras don't have
>a Willie Mays, or a Ted Williams, or a Babe Ruth.  You seem to be
>arguing that anyone who is the best player at a given time is at the
>pinnacle of the game.  I disagree.  The Mike Schmidt of the early
>1980s was not a Babe Ruth.

No, but the only one who ever approached Babe Ruth was really Ted Williams.
Schmidt was, as far as we can tell, clearly the best third baseman of
all time, and one of the top 20 players ever.

As far as Bonds vs. Mays, I think Bonds peak - his last 3 years - stands up 
quite well vs. Mays' 3 best years.  Of course, Mays had 14 consecutive
great years, so there's no real comparison career-wise, and it's pretty
doubtful that Bonds will be able to sustain his greatness as long as Mays did.

The problem with comparing across eras is that its much harder to be a
head and shoulders greater than your peers today, when the average 
quality of play is so much higher than it was in Babe Ruth's era.  Still,
while today's players may actually all be better at the game, the only
really fair way to compare them is in relation to their peers.

Greg 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dodger News Re: Straw and Davis
Date: 20 Dec 1992 22:21:56 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Darryl Strawberry is working out every day and he says his back
feels GREAT.  He says he fully expects to be ready by the
beginning of Spring training.

Eric Davis says he feels better than he has in years.  He says
he is going to adjust his style of play and try not to sacrifice
his body going all out to catch baseballs.  One catch isn't worth
missing so many weeks due to injury.

Ramon Martinez is excited about his upcoming marriage in January.
He says he feels ok, but he has not worked out all winter.

					BleedsDodgerBlue

From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:59:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Bay Area baseball
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

Things are starting to firm up for the Giants.

Previous post should have said 1/3 of outfield isn't firm (everyone knew
about Bonds).

Manager - Dusty Baker 
Hitting/1st base coach - Bobby Bonds
Bullpen coach - Bob Brenly
Third base coach - Wendel Kim
Pitching coach - Dick Pole (sp?)

Outfield - (LF) Bonds (CF) Martinez/Lewis (RF) McGee
Infield  - (3B) Williams (SS) Clayton (2B) Thompson (1B) Clark (C) Manwaring
Starters - Brantly, Black, Burkett, Wilson, ?
Closers  - Swift, Beck
Long relief - Hickerson, Jackson, Righetti (gag), ?


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Walks as hits (Was: Re: Stupidest rule in baseball (perhaps a new one))
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:54:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.150204.29199@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, 
drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Rob writes...
>The foul-strike rule was adopted by the National League in 1901 and by
>the American League in 1903. It was the primary reason why strikeouts
>jumped by 55% in the AL from 1902 to 1903, and by 58% in the NL
>between 1900 and 1901. The only well-known 20th century stat that has
>to be qualified is Lajoie's BA in 1901.
> 
>It was adopted because a few players (John McGraw and Roy Thomas among
>them) had gotten extremely proficient and deliberately fouling pitches
>off, and working a pitcher for a walk. In 1899, McGraw drew 124 walks
>with only 399 atbats (batting .391: a .547 OBA, second best in
>history.)
> 
>The idea was to speed up the game; with all the walks, games were
>supposedly taking too long. (Sound familiar?) They amended the rule
>later so that deliberately hitting a foul was considered a strike,
>even if you already had two. Didn't stop Thomas from drawing 100+
>walks for the next five years.
> 
Are you sure about that OBA? It is also true that in the 1800's walks were 
counted as hits. I am certain that Keeler's 44-game streak occured during that 
time. It is also true that in the 1800's passed balls and wild pitches were 
counted as errors.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Orioles sign Harold Reynolds
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:20:06 GMT

   The Baltimore Orioles have announced the signing of second baseman Harold
Reynolds to a one-year contract worth a reported $1.65 million.


Tim Irvin
*****************************************************************************
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to
 teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: zurawski@cbnewse.cb.att.com (lawrence.w.zurawski)
Subject: All-Time A's Team
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:52:57 GMT


	I haven't seen an All-Time A's team yet, so here goes:

	1B Foxx
	2B Collins
	3B Baker
	SS Campaneris
	OF Henderson
	OF Jackson
	OF Simmons
	C  Cochrane

	SP Grove
	SP Waddell
	SP Plank
	SP Hunter

	RP Fingers
	RP Eckersley

	Manager Mack

	This team stacks up pretty well alongside the other All-Time teams.

	Larry Zurawski
	zurawski@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: Maynard Ex Ante
Organization: NSSL
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:47:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.153206.1989@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1gsk97INNt3t@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
[Deletions]
>
>>So, if someone in the street, who never even watched a baseball
>>game, comes up to you and says "I think the Marlins are going
>>to win it all next year," his opinion is just as well founded
>>as yours?
>
>Not likely.  The people who make these kinds of pronouncements while
>having never watched a game are most likely statheads and they are 
>generally a confused lot.
>

Roger--can you give just one example of a 'stathead' who never watches
games?  Just one.  Less than two.  More than zero.  At least once in 
every thread, it seems you feel obligated to say something incredibly
stupid that implies that 'statheads' never watch baseball games.  You
have yet to name anyone that fits that description.  Are you inten-
ionally trying to be obtuse or do you just enjoy being aggravating?
Sheesh, you could make the National Weather Service management look
like open-minded.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory (Norman, OK)
"Better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late."
--Branch Rickey
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com (David Kenney)
Subject: Re: All-Time Expo team
Reply-To: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:28:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.043001.4620@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, falcon@cs.mcgill.ca (Scot Hughes) writes:
|> Quick: What's the difference between Spike Owen
|> and Chris Speier?

Oh, about 6 or 7 million dollars.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Kenney                                       kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com