Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:16:20 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Spong
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Spong

Bob's comments were on the money. I'm not positive, but I believe I may
have the Ankerberg tape where Dr. Walter Martin debated Spong. Everything
that Spong was espousing was against traditional Christianity.

I can't remember the book and if I get to any posting tonight, I want to
finish up the last Francis Shaeffer posting, but Dr. Walter Martin referred
to some huge 2-3 inch book which is a "standard". This book basically does
a good job about documenting that in 2,000 years traditional orthodox
Christianity has NOT changed. Even Francis Shaeffer talked about
reformation(was it) when the doctrines of Christianity were set straight
or back to what the Bible taught.

We've been told it doesn't matter what Spong things but if his arguments
are sound. The Bible says "All man's wisdom is foolishness." I suppose
that if Spong does a good job that someone is going to say, "Ah, what
wisdom." Be careful. The Bible also tells us "What ever is good, pure...
think on these things."

We're being told to study someone who opposes Biblical Christianity
to see if there arguments are sound. So what? (Not being hostile, it's
so hard to say the right words when righting, see what I mean? Anyhow.)
There's the argument that "Well your math book might not be good, pure..
That is different. Math doesn't try to tell us how to serve God, but it
does prove order in God's universe.

Back a bit on that book Martin referred to. (Darn, might have to dig
out that tape some day soon.) As Dr. Martin said, it was a through
documentation that Christianity hasn't changed in 2000 years. God does
say, "I am God, I change not." But, we have some that have this "new"
state of being, and since I was made this way, NOW is the time for
Christianity to take on a change. We should listen to Spong, who we have
said, is not for traditional Christianity because he might have good
arguments. Spong has nothing over Satan. Satan, if he would manifest
himself, could probably convince ALL of us Christians that we were
wrong if it were not for the Holy Spirit. Someday he's going to convince
the "world" as it were to rise in revolt against Christ. Evidently his
arguments are going to be great because most of us are quite lazy, yet
the nations will band together to fight the Giver of Life, and IN AN
INSTANT with the Word of His mouth, they will ALL be destroyed and the
blood will be as deep as the horses bridals. Does it matter that Satan's
arguments were the best, most founded, and most convincing against
traditional Christianity? I don't want to know.

Yes, there are things in the Bible that are open for discussion. One could
well be made of women not speaking in church. When I was told that women
sat separate from men in church and would have a tendency during service
and shout to their husband "Hey, Henry. What did he mean by that?", it
seemed that this could be what they were talking about.

When it says "Don't lie with a man as with a woman." When it lists
homosexuality with other sins and say, "Such will not inherit." And
taking the other side, when you start looking at ALL the scripture
you would have to throw away, it becomes staggering to think that God
suddenly approves the sin of homosexuality. For instance, out goes
Psalm 31 about the good wife, you have to throw away all the scriptures
in Chor. that talk about husband and wife relationships. I know they
could apply in a sense, but just like God brought Eve and not Steve
to Adam, the instructions, and as far as I know ALL instructions on
marriage clearly say HUSBAND and WIFE. These terms, as far as I know,
clearly indicate the sex of the persons being spoken to. We have to
throw out all the instructions of "An elder... the husband of 1 wife."
You would have to throw away many about children as in most cases
they came from the union of the husband and wife. (This is not to
say anything about husbands and wives who are struggling with one
being sterile, etc. If God were to work a healing, children could
be produced, and yes adoption is the choice instead of abortion.)

I'm not meaning to sound hateful. I'm trying to sound like "2+2=4"
when someone tries to say "2+2=3". For the "3" people, it's their
choice, I can work with the, I will invite them in if they come to
visit, I will talk to them, I will be civil as I can be when not
backed into a corner. BUT, I will never think they are right, what
we call "Respectfully Disagree."

If we were to discuss it would almost have to be on the grounds of
"I know you don't agree with xxxxx, but I think that xxxxx is true.
this is why I think it is true. Could you explain to me why you think
it is false? Thank you."

I guess that's what I am trying to do with this post, explain why I
think homosexuality is wrong with out going into great detail, and
explain why we SHOULD be careful on who we study regardless of how
"sound" their arguments are. If someone has the soundest of arguments,
and it doesn't agree with the Bible, then I'm sorry, but that person
is wrong. For heaven's sake, doesn't anyone have the Holy Spirit?
Doesn't anyone KNOW the mind of God from time to time? Haven't you
ever walked into a church or religious meeting and KNEW that the
Holy Spirit was there big time, and also that God was almost totally
absent?

No, I'm not superior, but trying to draw on Paul's words of "Don't you
know you will judge angels, and can't decide simple matters?"

Anyhow, between trying to get 4 children moving, Linda was out shopping,
and into bed, this post took almost the whole evening. I guess I'll get
to it tomorrow. :-)

I pray I didn't sound to critical. The kids are being a pain tonight, and
some of it may have rubbed off. One of the reasons I've told them "I'm
never having kids, I don't think I could take the pressure." At which
point they'll usually say "I hate to tell you this, but you DO have kids."
and I'll respond, "Oh no, tell me it isn't true.... Auggghhhh!"

Good night, folks!

Maks
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