From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:37:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In an article AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:

>>'Fraid not, Gwyn.  You and I are just bound to disagree over training methods
		{stuff deleted}
>>Ultimately the problem is that the horse is ignoring or resisting
>>your aids something that must be corrected with proper training
>>and schooling using the equipment you will use in the show ring.
>>More often than not if the horse resists the bit then either the
>>riders hands are unsteady or rough, or the bit is uncomfortable for
>>the horse.
>>
>>                                Tracy and everybody


>You're right: we disagree.  This last statement ignores the fact
>that a horse has a past, and one that may or may not be ideal. If
>you came across a 15-year-old jumper that had tons of talent but had
>been misused in the past, would you put it out to pasture because it
>wouldn't do the jumpers in a hollow snaffle?

No, I wouldn't.  I would find a bit or headgear that it goes well in,
or at least better in, and I would retrain it.  Horses are retrained
all the time from past abuses and many become quiet and reliable.
Karen Karlsson posted about her half-Arab that she is currently 
retraining, he no longer tosses his head because of fear of bad hands.

>Horses do not only resist bits because of the current rider's
>hands, or because of a bit that is uncomfortable.  Horses learn by
>rote:  they memorize situations and cues and respond to them.
>Sometimes, unfortunately, they are "taught" the wrong thing by
>inexperienced or inconsistent riders.  Once they learn, they learn
>forever, or at least for a long, long time. 

	Forever is a very long time.  I think we have all known horses
that were taught improper cues or were mishandled and through proper
retraining and trust in their riders no longer have that problem.  Also
the occassional head toss is not at issue here it is continual head
tossing which is symptomatic of discomfort.  I personally witnessed the
transformation of a 21-year old horse who all his life had been tossing
his head within  seconds of switching to a mullen mouth snaffle he
was going better, in a week it was as though he had never had a problem
before.

>But the reality is that not all horses
>have had perfect lives, and lots of horses need different schooling
>aids to teach them to do it the right way, here and now.

	Yes but why change those aids for a show when the horse is 
going properly in training.  You'll just confuse them.

>I agree with your idea that all dressage horses, regardless of
>level, should be shown in snaffles. It would really separate out the
>ones that are truly responsive. But then again, it would also
>eliminate some of those horses who have a little extra "brilliance"
>that needs to be corrected once in a while. (This is out of my
>league, not being a dressage person, I'm just bringing it up as an
>interesting issue. I'd like to hear what other Netfolks have to say
>about it. 

	Actually this would be counter to the idea of dressage, which
is proper training.  A horse can still be brilliant and yet go well
on a snaffle (Dr. Gahwyler, the judge I mentioned, has two such horses, 
Hanoverian stallions who are Grand Prix level).
The rider has other means of correction available and many people
will school a horse at a show in front of the judge if necessary.
The score won't count but often the judge will give a few tips and
pointers and the horse will understand that just because it is a
show they cannot get away with things.

>Especially after the Olympics -- what bits were being
>used there? Where the top-ten-types using all sorts of bizarre
>bits? Or are snaffles the norm at this highest level?)

	The requirement for 4th level and above, which includes FEI
(Olympic) level is that the horse be ridden in a double bridle, the
bradoon must be of either straight, jointed, or french mouth snaffle,
the diameter of the mouthpiece and the rings are specified, and it
may be covered in leather or rubber, however the entire mouthpiece
though not the rings must be of one alloy or metal, no dual metals
are allowed.  The curb may either have loose cheeks or fixed, the
length of shanks and thicknesses of the mouthpieces are specified,
the mouthpiece must be a solid, non-jointed mouthpiece and must be
all of one metal, though the mouthpiece may be wrapped in leather
or rubber.  The range of selections for headgear in dressage is
severely limited in order to prevent anything bizarre from being
used.

>As to whether horses are different at shows than at home, well, if
>you believe that they are exactly the same that's fine.

	No I don't believe they are exactly the same that would be 
foolish what I disagree with is relying on hardware rather than training
to prepare for a show experience.
 
>I'm glad for
>a Net where we can all challenge each other's opinions -- it makes
>me THINK.

	Me, too.

>Can we quit now? Thinking is tiring.

	Aw, come on, it builds brain muscles!

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian