HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 18:41:44 GMT
Organization: Computer Nerd (is that redundant?), WINCO, INEL, Idaho
Subject: Re: You really want to be a writer?
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: Computer Nerd (is that redundant?), WINCO, INEL, Idaho
Keywords: 

yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:
>Yes, you don't need to really know the business to write well.  But don't let
>pride puff you up just because you're a better writer than the guy whose
>published.  If you're really good, people will WANT to read your writing.  So
>why let the other guy get away with it when people COULD be enjoying YOUR work?

Just to offer an example:

Jackson, Wyoming, like many resort towns, is crawling with
photographers.  A block without a photo gallery (and a gift shop and a
restaurant, of course) is very rare in downtown Jackson.  (Incidentally,
I use photography as an example since that's my main interest; writing
is something you do to get your photographs published. ;^) )

There is one photographer in Jackson who, frankly, is not very good.  He
shoots with large format equipment, and his photos are well exposed and
sharply focused.  The problem is that his photos just aren't very good!
He basically shoots very sharp, well exposed snapshots.  Yet you'll find
his photographs all over Jackson -- on calendars and postcards found in
every gift store, in his two galleries in town (yes, two galleries). 
Pick a location; they probably sell something that he's been part of. 

Why is this guy selling photographs when Jackson is overrun with better
photographers (many of whom are successful, just not as successful)?  I
don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to guess that it has to do with
business skills.

I like the statement above, ``So why let the other guy get away with it
when people COULD be enjoying YOUR work?''  Why, indeed?

Hoping many will be enjoying my photographs and writing in the
future....

-- 
Geoff Allen          \  Why is it that no one admits to ever watching Hee Haw
uunet!pmafire!geoff   \  but they all know the words to ``Where, Oh Where,
geoff@pmafire.inel.gov \  Are You Tonight?''
From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Good Writing -- Style and Contents
Summary: Read,read,read,read,read, and read some more.
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:17:49 GMT
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <22472@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov writes:
>>and how can I improve mine? [style, that is]
>
>Read for much of a lifetime.

That's the best thing anyone can do.   Read, read, read, read, read, and read
some more.

By the way, along the lines of style, it might be worth it to read Corbitt's
_Classical_Rhetoric_for_the_Modern_student; he has a buncha excercises (in fact
a whole section of the book) devoted specifically to style.  But like the
poster says, Corbett also says "Read lots of books".

Erasmus had a stunt where to demonstrate the various ways of saying the same
thing (along the lines of style) he rewrote the sentence (which was something
like) "I enjoyed the letter you sent me" a hundred times or so (I don't remember
precisely what the sentence was). Not all the sentences were good, in fact, some
where horrible monstrosities (e.g. something like "When I read your Epistle,
I was seized with extraordinary Pleasure").  Does anyone have the reference
and some examples?  I can't remember exactly what he wrote (off the top of my
head) and besides, the whole thing was in Latin.

DY

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D M Yoshikami  :-) ;-) :-) | Internet: yoshikami@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
May the Forth be with you! | Bitnet  : yoshikami@usuhsb.bitnet
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Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: where do i start???
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 11:54:34 GMT




In a previous article, Brennan.J.Murphy.53@nd.edu () says:

>I am in a fiction writing class this semester.  I wrote some stories that 
>the class thought were very funny.  I want ot see if I can get one published.
>It's a satirical look at pro basketball.  My question is this, what do I do
>first?  Where do I send it?  

There used to be a misc.writing FAQ posting, but I don't know what happened
to it.  Anyway, the easiest way for you to learn what you need is to get a
book called _Writer's Market_, which comes out every year.  They have it at
your library, almost certainly.  Ask for it.  Read the articles at the
front with titles such as "The Business of Writing" or "Mailing
Submissions." That's really the quickest way of getting the basics.

The -basic- basics are this: You find a place that prints your kind of
stuff; you print out your story, double-spaced, wide margins, one side of
paper, with your name & address on it; you mail it to the editor with a
stamped, self-addressed envelope for the editor to mail it back again.  You
keep doing this until it sells or you give up, meanwhile writing and
sending out other stuff. 

Good luck!

Bonita Kale



From: gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:48:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: You really want to be a writer?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: misc.writing


> why sell a novel for a $5K advance when it could have been sold for $10 if
> you knew how (and/or who) to ask for it? 

Being a naif, I have yet to figure out the economics of advances. Given the
fact that a book will earn $x for the people involved in manufacturing and
selling the product and that an author gets a pre-negotiated slice of the
revenue (not profit, *revenue*), what's the point of getting a larger part of
it early? Is it a case of grabbing the money and running? If so, why? 

Could the publisher cough up an advance and then decide against publishing the
book? Is that the problem? If so, my question is --- with what frequency does
this occur?

(As a wannabe beach-novel genre writer, I see publishers as an essential part
of the chain, making the tales I tell available for people to buy and read. I
envisage a long-term, open partnership with "my" publisher and would have
thought that if the author gets a fixed proportion of revenue, whether that
slice arrives earlier or later, doesn't change the total amount earned by the
book. IMHO, brinksmanship over advances is only going to have deleterious
effects on the relationship between author and publisher --- I intend to create
the most positive relationship I can between myself and the people who turn my
MSs into books.)

--
Graham Higgins                                 gjh@hpl.hp.com
<< My opinions above are exactly that: my own, and opinions. >>

Newsgroups: misc.writing
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 16 Apr 1992 07:53:11 MST
From: <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Creativity, Creative writing classes


     Wild Bill's recent posting was, IMHO, very enlightening to say the
least.  Naughty Nancy did post a question(s) about creative writing classes
about the same time that I did.  yet, I am still waiting for the flames to
die down so someone would rescue the victim, and reply to my question.

     I am not going to take sides here, but I have been taking creative
writing classess for the past year.  Right now I am taking an ICW:Fiction
and a round table novel writers workshop.  Both classes are interesting
because we, as students of writing, are learning from each other and the
teacher.

     Yet, there are some draw backs that I find frustrating, and they are:

          o  there always seems to be a favorite student that can do no
             wrong no matter how poorly their work was written.

             Which throws me off track because my teacher has told me on
             numerous ocassions that my critisms of peoples work was right
             on the mark.  Yet, for the pet, I seem to be way out in left
             field.  Which bugs me because I keep second guessing myself.

          o  the expressed genre of interest of the teacher is literature
             and seems elevated above the, lets say, horror genre.  Which,
             I might add, is a hinderance at times, but from what I have
             learned, is not always necessary that the teacher know all
             the genres.

             The reason I say this is because there are basic rules of
             fiction that must be observed, regardless of the genre, or
             what the teacher may or may not know.  I've got to admit
             that I was leary of someone who wasn't a King fan teaching
             me creative writing.  Yet, what I am learning has been and
             is extremely helpful -- I was blind and now only half blind.

     Anyway, I have pointed out just two of the difficulties that seems
to be common -- as I have heard from my class mates.  So, I would like to
hear from others about their experiences and what, if anything, can i learn
from my experiences?


     Thanks,
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 07:58:34 MST
From: <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject:    Good Sport, transitions, and I.


     My thanks to everyone who responded to my original posting
'. . .style' and to those to who chose to follow-up on 'Transition'.

     Learning from critique or critism is difficult, and I, not to
say the least of all, learn slowly -- resistant to change -- sometimes
forgetting the edge of knowledge is bounded by what is not seen.


     Thanks Larry . . . What is seen and heard may be a bird,
                      but what is held may be a shell
                        what is tasted may seem like food,
                      but what is swallowed may not been chewed
From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Which way is out??
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:11:33 GMT
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <92098.140428KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET> KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>My question to SCI-FI, and the like, writers.
>
>    If a person returns to the past and attempts to alter it or does;
>
>    a.)  would the change occur before he returns to the future
>    B.)  or would the change occur after the return trip?
>
>Is this a plot or what?   -- don't anyone say 'what'.

Time paradoxes are lots of fun.  Watch enough Dr. Who, Star Trek (etc) or
invent a Tachyon Telephone (apparantly Tachyons travel backwards in time --
see Martin Gardener's book on this one) and they'll have all kinds of excuses.

Okay!  So all ye writers out there, why not write a story which has a couple
people deliberately trying to violate and cause time paradoxes (just for fun)
and send the whole world into tumbolia!!  [Knowing the world, someone has
probably already tried this already :-) ]  Paradoxes, by their very nature,
seem to be tied into self-reference of some kind.  This is perhaps why the
delphic "Know Thyself" can be impossible (It's self-referential) much like 
trying to evaluate "This Sentence is False", the "Set that contains Itself",
or even better, the sentence: "'When preceeded by itself yields a 
falsehood' when preceeded by itself yields a falsehood."

Have fun!!!!

DY

P.s.  The Term "Tumbolia" comes from Hofstadter.  It's used when Achilles 
crashes the system by telling a Genie "I wish that my wish not be granted"

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May the Forth be with you! | Bitnet  : yoshikami@usuhsb.bitnet
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From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Which way is out??
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:37:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sit.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Apr8.115943.275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>
>No, you don't understand.  If you're writing a time travel story, -you- get
>to (have to!) decide all that.
>
>But don't write one without reading a whole bunch of them, to get some idea
>of your options and what's already been done to death. 

I'll save her the trouble.  Here's several of the more common setups:

1.  Time traveler changes time.  Nothing happens to him in the past, but he
returns to the future to find that all has changed.

2.  Time traveler disappears as soon as the change is made.  This type of
story is _not_ usually told from the point of view of the time traveler.

3.  Same as 1, except that the time traveler disappears when he returns to
the future, or at least knows that this will happen if he ever tries it
 (traveler without a past, doomed to roam time forever, etc., 
etc.).  This one's pretty lame.  (Silverberg, "Up the Line.")

4.  Time traveler makes the change and returns to the future, to find that
nothing has changed in any noticeable way.  In looking over the history
books, he discovers that Lincoln was shot by somebody _else_ five minutes
after he left.  Traveler then ruminates about how the fabric of time is
so tough and elastic that it insists on snapping back into its 
(predetermined) shape, by whatever means possible. Yawn.

5.  Time traveler creates an alternate universe.  His old world still
exists (although he may not be able to return to it), but the change that
he made creates a new universe  (See De Camp's "Lest Darkness Fall" or,
if you can stand it, Gerrold's "The Man Who Folded Himself."

There are others.  My favorite story line holds that any timeline in which
humans discover time travel is inherently unstable (i.e., humans can't
resist mucking with the past) and will eventually destroy the roots of its
own existence.  Brunner handled this fairly well in an old novel about
an alternate Britain ruled by the Empire of Spain.
From: carp@brahms.udel.edu (Joanna S Carpenter)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Once more with feeling
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:22:24 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware



Rereading is something I really enjoy, especially with my favorite books--
While I was in the hospital, my mom brought me the whole "Incarnations of
Immortality" series (Piers Anthony) which I've read zillions of times and
plan on continuing to read another zillion times.

I tend to reread books written by my favorite authors, especially if I'm 
trying to achieve a style like theirs.  (The problem results when the 
styles of Ann McCaffery, Piers Anthony, Dick Frances, Dean Koonts and
Steven King--ugh! :-*  are combined!)

I think it's important to reread, especially if there's that one little
detail a particular author handles SO well, that you want to be able to
do it, too, and you just can't quite get it....


         ^^^^^^^
      /          \     /         Jodi Carpenter        837-6407   
    /  C   >        \ /  |       carp@brahms.udel.edu 
  {         >         \  |       Tech House Social Activities Coordinator 
    \      >       /    \  |------------------------------------------------- 
    wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww  |  "O flesh, flesh, for thou art fishified."
                           -------          --romeo & juliet            
    "In the words of the immortal|------------------------------------- 
     Socrates, 'I drank what?'"  |  DRAGONRIDERS DO IT WYREVER! 
            --Real Genius        |-----------------------------              
---------------------------------
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Sunday, 12 Apr 1992 09:54:09 MST
From: <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject:    The time has come, heter.


    matter in time and space is relative to the constant flux of the
universe.  Taken in small doses, is the universe timed to the flux of
objects in space.  Can an object in space be a product of time along a
line or a solidatary mass with no dimensional relative?

    Writing of the object in space that is abstract and without bond to
a particular law of physics, is comparative to a random thought that has
not been narrowed to a finite absolute.

    The object in question is a Smirmoff's Quark.  A collapsed pulsar
star that has expanded its density to nearby orbiting bodies, which are
affected by the overlapping magnetic field of force and project the field
onto passing objects.  Which, in turn, are altered and subsequently pass
the projected field onto other mass bodies.  The effect, is a field of
force entending beyond the original mass of the pulsar that produces a
web like magnetic - pulsed field.  Not unlike a giant radar telescope,
yet the differences are that time along the lines are distorted and
projected at random intervals towards other parts of the immediate
galaxy.

    The projected time distortions interfer with mass development in
the surrounding galaxy, and alien life may have been present before the
pulsar collapse, but proof is unrealiable because of the constant mix
in the signals that are received.

    Does anyone know more about the quark that I can read about?


Jon
From: ARL00SJB@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Getting an Agent?
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:03:10 GMT
Organization: UNC Charlotte

I just read Chuq's post about getting an agent to rep you if you want to
get serious about writing.  I have a question about that.  I read elsewhere
that a writer doesn't need an agent until and unless the writer can't keep
track of what's been sent where, and who owes you money, and the like.  *I*
have a problem with the idea that I need to pay someone out of money that
I don't yet have, to get my work sold.  I just submitted a manuscript to
a market that I found out *after* the manuscript was mailed doesn't
accept unagented work *and* doesn't accept unsolicited work.  I think
this looks like a Catch-22 situation to me - you can't sell your work
without an agent, and you can't afford an agent without selling some of
your work.  That's a dismaying idea to those of us who would just LOVE
to sell our work, but can't figure out how to do it if this kind of thing
is what it takes.  Yes, I know there are markets where one may simply
submit the manuscript, but the one I mentioned could not be submitted to
any of those markets.  So far, I haven't received it back, but I don't
hold out a lot of hope that it will be read before they ship it off to
me again.  It's probably sitting in a large pile under a sign marked
"Unsolicited, unagented - return to sender."
 
So much for the wide-eyed writer who thought all she had to do was
finish the manuscript and submit it - or is that the same fantasy of
the scores of young people who flock to Hollywood and think that they
will be "discovered"?
 
Jean
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: You really want to be a writer?
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:45:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington


	Regarding previous posts, mine and others', on the business end of
being a writer:

	sorry, I thought the context made clear that I was talking about 
writing fiction--no other application of my "write well and the business
will take care of itself" intended;

	second, yes I have an agent who explains the significance to me of
the relatively few choices I have, and every time there are complexities,
she reveals to me that she is worth her 10%, so I have no intention of 
trying to stay out in front of her, outguess her, etc. 

	finally, on thinking more about what others have said, I recant to 
this extent:  if you want to make a living as a freelance writer, then you 
probably have to take on all sorts of responsibilities, including any number
that bear on the business end of things.

 
-- 
				Tom Maddox
			tmaddox@u.washington.edu
		"Writing is reading and reading is writing."
				A. S. Byatt
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 14:04:28 MST
From: <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject:    Which way is out??

   Answer me a question, and I will lie.
   answer me a lie, and I will question.
... quoted from someone


My question to SCI-FI, and the like, writers.

    If a person returns to the past and attempts to alter it or does;

    a.)  would the change occur before he returns to the future
    B.)  or would the change occur after the return trip?

    If the change occurs before the return to the future, how would
he/she return; assuming things would be different?

    or, if things don't change until the return trip, then wouldn't
it be possible for the change to never occur?


Some history:

    If for some reason, someone was able to return to the time when
Abe Lincoln was killed.  Maybe a couple of minutes before, and foils
the murder.  Lincoln lives, but does that necessary mean that destiny
was or would now change??

Is this a plot or what?   -- don't anyone say 'what'.


Jon,
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mvp@hsv3.uucp (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Asimov's SF Magazine
Organization: Video 7 + G2 = Headland Technology
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:43:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.183309.2752@unx.sas.com> sascmc@pecos.unx.sas.com (Christopher Mark Conn) writes:
>What will happen to Asimov's Science Fiction magazine now that he's gone?
>
>I will miss his columns there and in F&SF too... I always enjoyed them.

Other than the lack of Asimov's columns ... nothing.  Because
that was Asimov's only connection with magazine, other than
letting them put his name on it. 
-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming
Headland Technology    | mob pounding on a greasy spot on the pavement,
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com      | where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
...ames!vsi1!hsv3!mvp
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Uncreative Writing.
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:44:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

For long-suffering creative-writing students told to "Write what you
know"--what you know is literature, and your literature (of whatever genre)
comes out of the literature you have read and learned from. The details of your
youth in some forlorn suburb, the trivia of your particular puberty, are of
zero literary interest unless and until you can put them in a literary context.
[I hope I'm making it clear that "literature" in this case means any written
fiction in any genre; and "mainstream academic" is also a genre.]

Some CW teachers may dislike horror/fantasy/SF etc. on purely snobbish grounds.
As a teacher of commercial fiction [Genres R Us], my complaint about most such
student work is that it reveals the student has read Precious Bloody Little
*except* his or her fave authors, and slavishly imitates them. A good horror
writer ought to know Jane Austen as well as Mary Shelley, Dickens as well as
Bram Stoker, but most aspiring writers haven't troubled even to read the
original Frankenstein and Dracula. So their stuff comes out like the third
carbon copy of a list of cliches.

Thank you. I feel much better now.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: Asimov's SF Magazine
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:06:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.183309.2752@unx.sas.com> sascmc@pecos.unx.sas.com (Christopher Mark Conn) writes:
>What will happen to Asimov's Science Fiction magazine now that he's gone?
>


	Someone (Chuq, I think) posted within the past month or so that it had
been sold.

Regards,
tony