HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wsadjw@rw6.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Homeopathic remedies
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:29:51 GMT
Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

In article <18936@mindlink.bc.ca> Clayten_Hamacher@mindlink.bc.ca (Clayten Hamacher) writes:
>
>If it was true that the more diluted something is the more powerful it is
>then please explain why people in mexico city are dyeing from polution
>*because it is so concentrated* and people in the NWT in Canada are not
>dyeing from polution (where there is almost zilch).

The homeopaths know that too.  They maintain that it is the intermittent
shaking between the dilution steps that transfers the immaterial healing
power of the agent to the solvent, amplifying it in the meantime.
The whole point of those high dilutions is to remove the physical effects
of the original drug.  The process of shaking and rubbing (the latter
if the `solvent' is milk sugar) is thought to be analogous to the transfer
of magnetism (another immaterial force) to iron by rubbing and beating.
The reason why those immaterial forces are so important (all according
to homeopaths) is that disease itself is a disturbance of an immaterial
life force.

If this seems irrational to you, remember that the above view is the
one of the founder Hahnemann, a contemporary of Mesmer, living in a time
when medicine was quite primitive, and magnetism wasn't understood
either.  Present day homeopaths still venerate Hahnemann, and read
his scriptures.  Believing in homeopathy is not more irrational than
believing in faith healing, umpteen New Age remedies, the power of the
mind, chrystals and what have you.

It is even not much more irrational than astrology.  The similarity
with astrology is in the extremely complex diagnostic technique, during
which the client (patient) is indoctrinated in the system and provided
with a coherent (even if false) story about his/her own health or life,
told by a sympathetic practitioner who of course charges for his time,
something that some physicians only dare to do if that time is spent
with a modicum of effectiveness.

JWN
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth "Gimpy" Bradley)
Subject: Re: Crocker's suggestion on Wolff's charge of crackpottery.
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:47:03 GMT

In article <Bzvqq3.8x2@well.sf.ca.us> sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
>
>action-at-a-distance is quite practical in may cultures, African, Haitian,
>Brazilian,Aborigine, Shaman - ...

Please present documented evidence of action-at-a-distance occuring that
can not be explained by psychological effects upon the person or persons
being acted on.  I have never seen such evidence, and if you have some 
I would enjoy seeing it.  It would be especially instructive to see a 
case where it was demonstrated under controlled conditions, with an
expert in trickery being in attendence.
-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Suggestibility
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:00:51 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA

In article <BzMHu7.EnD@cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert
McGrath) writes:

   I was thinking of the studies by Orne and others that compared
   hypnotized subjects to subjects instructed to behave just as if
   they were hypnotized.  There were differences in the behavior of
   these groups, indicating that hypnosis is not as simple as "let's
   pretend you are hypnotized."

Indeed.  I don't know about Orne, but Erickson has published several
articles about the mutual behavior of hypnotized and simulating
subjects.  He cites the "both / and" logic of the hypnotized
individual, which is difficult to simulate without a LOT of practice.

   Quite.  A very similar result to hypnosis.  Is this the same
   process?  I don't know.  I've certainly never heard of people
   remembering past lives or channeling 25th century Venusians due to
   normal interregation (absent coercion).

HA!!  You don't hang around New Age fairs enough!! ;-)

   Well, lawyers will say just about anything!  The real question
   maybe is how many and what sources of suggestion are present in the
   "testimony".  Whatever sources of pollution exist for "regular"
   testimony exist for hypnotic testimony, plus unknown biases due to
   whatever hypnosis is (role playing, or r.p. + other stuff) and
   biases induced by the otherwise irrelevant hypnotist.

It may be a little more complex than this.  The real problem is not so
much the actual testimony, but "rehersal" (which included routine
questioning by police and prosecutors).  To what extent does this
questioning bias later testimony by literally changing the memories of
the witnesses?  To what extent is there a desire to please in the
witnesses by remembering what the police (or prosecutor) wants them
to?

There is also a fair amount of question in my mind concerning the
extent to which protracted questioning is trance-inducing.  Age
regression is a common induction and deepening technique, as many
hypnosis texts will show.  Constant questioning about past events, and
in particular the sensual aspects of those events (actual sights /
sounds / feelings) can easily induce a trance (putting aside, for the
moment, the state / no-state argument) that can have a great deal of
influence on the witness.

The line between "hypnotically induced" and "not-hypnotically-induced"
memories may be fuzzy indeed.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Hormesis/Homeopathy
Date: 28 Dec 92 10:03:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

GE> .I have been told by friends who should know, that if I get called for
  > .petit jury duty, I probably wouldn't get selected for a jury because
  > .I'm an engineer.  (The prosecution and defense both get to reject a
  > .certain number of prospective jurors without cause.)  Supposedly,
  > .trial lawyers don't like presenting cases to people with technical or
  > .scientific backgrounds because they are too likely to decide the case
  > .based on the evidence.  Can't have that, can we.

Based on my experience, that's absolutely true.  Based on some
conversations with trial lawyers, they admit that it's _probably_ a
valid position.

I've been on many jury selection panels, and have always been eliminated
by a peremptory challenge immediately after stating my occupation or
employer.  (For many years, I was employed by a large private
university.)

Even more probable is your elimination from a jury if you have any
technical expertise or experience in the subject area of the trial.
Some attorneys suggest that you'd have a bias based on your prior
experience and would not judge solely on the evidence.

All in all, ignorance and stupidity seem to be positive traits for jury
selection. <sigh!>

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                                    
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Will the -REAL- Christians please stand up? Was: What did Judas betray?
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:46:58 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <bruce.725729139@cortex>, bruce@cortex.dixie.com (R. Bruce
Rakes) wrote:
> It is my understanding that Nazi Germany was Xtian.  Can anyone else
> confirm this?

Aaarrrgh.... They wanted to create a new Teutonic religion, Donnerwatterung
et rest. I guess some of the mythological elements were also taken
from the Knights of Templars, so maybe there's a loose connection to
medieval Christian mystery cults.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson)
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:38:32 GMT

In article <6767@tuegate.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes:
>In article <1992Dec25.184036.123@Princeton.EDU> rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson) writes:
>>includes asthma specifically, but there are some studies, e.g. Janssen,
>
>Over 25 years ago a lung specialist referred me to a physiotherapist,
>to take breathing exercises and practising certain forms of relaxation.
>It helped. Such methods are also in use today. I don't see so much news
>in the approach sketched.  And, the magazine you mention is typically
>something to be found on the newsstands of New Age bookshops. That means
>that their referees might be not too strict about proper experimental
>design.  If a Dutch researcher has something interesting to report, s/he
>should try to get it into the Nederlands Tijdschrift voor Geneeskunde
>(which appears every week, and which is read widely  and has high standards).
>
>Yuk, how do I hate myself for rejecting unseen an article that might be
>interesting, and that on Christmas. 
>
I can see that.  I considered suggesting that you might want to check
the article, being conveniently located, but didn't do so, assuming you
could volunteer yourself.  You say there is no news here, but in fact
there is a difference in having recommendations like those of your
physiotherapist based on experience or tradition, and the more recent
controlled studies.  The latter are desirable and help optimize the
former.  I don't know whether Janssen's study is very high quality or
not, but I do know its claimed results comform to a growing number of
others.  Not to mention the direct experience of _many_ asthma
sufferers. 

Cheers, Roger
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: homeopaty... NBC's dateline
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:50:44 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <103062@netnews.upenn.edu>, rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec22.223557.6777@panix.com> carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) writes:
|> >In <1649@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
|> >>It is my understanding that one *can* develope a tolerance ('immunity') to
|> >>arsenic over time by taking small, gradually increasing doses.
|> >
|> >  It's my understanding that increased cyanide tolerance, ...
|> 
|> Unlikely, since cyanide is composed of carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen; none of
|> these are heavy metals.

I think Carl suffered a slip of the keyboard - the original reference was to
*arsenic*, which *is* a heavy metal.

And, so, yes, I think he is probably right about arsenic tolerance.
[His statement is close to my original guess anyway].

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic,alt.atheism
From: kepley@cs.unca.edu (Brad Kepley)
Subject: Re: Will the -REAL- Christians please stand up? Was: What did Judas be
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:25:47 GMT

>no one could be in any real doubt about what the Nazis intended

Well, now you're not just convicting the Vatican, but also all those people
who supported the Nazis early (including men like Oswald Spengler), all 
of the nations of Europe who cooperated and supported the Nazis because
of their fear of the Bolshevics, and particularly Chamberlain but
also Roosevelt and the Americans who opposed early entry into the war,
as Jew killers. After all, as you point out:

>  Their anti-semitic program was on public
>show early on.   The elimination of Jews from Germany was in Clause
>5 of the 1920 Party program.

So all these people "wanted the Jews and Atheists killed" as you put
it?
  The Catholic Church is led by fallible men who make foreign policy
mistakes and have many skeletons in their closets, and they can be 
sanctimonious, just like others (I won't mentionany names). But who 
hasn't made terrible mistakes, given a thousand years of history and rapidly
changing moral values?
   And looking back now with comfortable 20/20 hindsight and high moral
indignation, who did behave correctly during that awful time?  
Your accusation that the Catholic Church "wanted" the Jews and Atheists
is revolting.


Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: Will the -REAL- Christians please stand up? Was: What did Judas betray?
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:52:24 GMT

In article <1i44cuINN86i@iraul1.ira.uka.de> stoesser@i31s17.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.191432.13862@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>|> In article <1humf2INNniq@iraul1.ira.uka.de> stoesser@i31s17.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:
>|> >In article <bruce.725729139@cortex>, bruce@cortex.dixie.com (R. Bruce Rakes) writes:
>...
>|> >|> It is my understanding that Nazi Germany was Xtian.  Can anyone else
>|> >|> confirm this?
>|> >
>|> >- Hitler was Roman Catholic.
>|> 
>|> His regime and his government, however, were not founded on
>|> Christian values.  That is the point that was being made (although
>|> I agree that Hitler's "religion" can cloud the issue).  I don't
>|> know of any Christian denomination at the time of Hitler that
>|> espoused the killing of non-Christians as even remotely following
>
>So the Pope was not a Christian? (You deleted my line "- Pope Pius IX (?) 
>was the first one to make contracts with Hitler.")

What do you mean by making contracts with Hitler?  Do you mean the
the Pope made a contract with Hitler to kill non-Christians or to
espouse the superiority of the Aryan race?

>
>|> Christ.  I won't even mention the superiority of one race over
>|> another, etc.  Therefore the beliefs and actions of his regime are
>|> in direct contradiction to the faith he claimed to have as well
>|> the teachings of Christ.  Quoting his belief in a God doesn't
>
>Probably _any_ beliefs or actions  ar in contradiction to "the(sic!) teachings
>of Christ" because these teachings are contradictive by itself and/or subject
>to contradictive interpretation. Hence, nobody is a Christian.

Sorry, this is pure nonsense.  Hitler's actions were not only in
direct violation of Jesus's teaching but also against the law and
norms of the RC Church in his day as well as today.  If you would
like Scriptural and/or RC canon law references, I would be happy
to do so, although we probably should continue such an exchange in
another forum such as Email.


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Skeptics meetings, Berkeley Area?
Date: 1 Jan 1993 00:14:22 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

Hi folks.

Is there a Skeptics organization operating in the
Berkeley area?  When do they meet?

I used to see references to Bay Area Skeptics meetings
a few years back and went to one; are they still around?

Steve
From: qsi@contrast.wlink.nl (Peter Kocourek)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: RE: Uri's Magic
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:45:16

Sean Michael Gallagher wrote in a message on 17 Dec 92 to All

 SMG> I really hope this isn't true. I have never been one to
underestimate 
 SMG> the stupidity of a Congresscritter, but this is too much. If 
 SMG> one of the senators on the Senate S&T Committee believes in 
 SMG> Uri Geller, I can understand why NASA has so much trouble...How 
 SMG> can you expect to ask for more funding for your research when 
 SMG> the Congresscritter thinks you can just call in a "psychic" 
 SMG> to solve the problem for you. Can anybody flatly deny this 
 SMG> article and save my faith in my country?

I hope it isn't true... if it is, who was the <expletive deleted> senator?


YHS:QSI!
 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: zellner@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Why the sky is blue - again
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:54:04 GMT


 > OK.  Let's see if I'm getting anywhere.  All the light hits
 > the atmosphere and starts bouncing around, the odds of it bouncing
 > being some factor of how many molecules there are to hit, how big they
 > are, and so forth, and on the wavelength; the odds of bouncing get better 
 > the shorter the wavelength gets.  I assume the Rayleigh equations 
 > calculate the actual odds, given a molecular size, density, and a 
 > wavelength....

That's essentially correct.  Actually you get a scattering efficiency - the
ratio of the cross-section of light removed from the beam to the geometrical
cross-section of the scatterer - which increases as the fourth power of the
size/wavelength parameter.  You just multiply the scattering cross-section per
particle by the number of particles in the beam. 

 > Blue takes enough extra bounces that a lot more of it bounces into the eye
 > than do the lower frequencies. The lower frequencies do in 
 > fact get back to the eye, but compared with the blue, they're small change.  
 > When looking through a lot of the atmosphere toward the rising horizon, 
 > more of the blue has scattered, leaving relatively more red, which has
 > miraculously managed to come through almost unscathed -- unscattered. 

Generally there is only one "bounce"; the atmosphere is optically thin at
visible wavelengths.  It's not the number of bounces that counts, but the
probablility of bouncing.

 > Does this mean that UV-sky is "brighter" than the blue?  

In the near UV the scattering efficiency as described above is higher.  But 
the sun isn't very bright in the UV, and the higher optical depth starts to
take a toll - more of the light is scattered back into space.  In the
"vacuum UV", shortward of about 3000A, you start to get true atomic ABSORPTIONS
by O3, O2, O, and nitrogen.  Recall to kick an atom into a higher electronic
state or to ionize it you generally need 5 to 10 electron volts, which is in 
the UV in terms of photon energy. 

 > Let me guess.  UV is short enough to where the molecule size starts to 
 > matter ...

Nope.  Remember molecules are only a few Angstroms in size.  The wavelength 
is still a thousand times larger.

 > O3 is more opaque than O2.

The O3 absorption is a true absorption, not a pure-scattering phenomenon.  
The photon doesn't just bounce, it's destroyed.  The atom that did the
absorbing can re-radiate the energy at the same wavelength (resonant
scattering), or it can radiate several photons at longer wavelengths as it
cascades down through electronic energy levels (airglow), or the energy can 
be thermalized by collisions between atoms.  But the process is entirely 
different from Rayleigh scattering.

Ben

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Subject: Re: Looking for Daniken sceptic
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:58:39 GMT

> Paul Sammy 4th Year iE writes:
>
> I'm looking for a book that purports to reveal the
> inconsistencies and downright lies that Eric Von Daniken
> (allegedly) wrote in his "Gold of the Gods" series.
>

There was an installment of the PBS program "Nova" quite a few years ago that
debunked not only Von Daniken, but several of his clones as well.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: danielg@med.unc.edu (Daniel G. Sinclair)
Subject: Need Edgar Cayce information...
Originator: danielg@saluda
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 04:29:42 GMT

Hey there.  I just met my dad after not seeing him for over 24 years!
Anyway, it turns out that he's really into Cayce (sp?) and is a member of
the ARC, or ARA, or something like that.  I would really appreciate any
info on this guy - please Email me.

Thanks in advance,

danielg
-- 
"It is hoped that at some time or the other we many be at leisure to
restrain the liscentiousness of the theatre, and make it contribute to the
advancement of morality, and to the reformation of society."
	- Joseph Addison in _The Spectator_ Aug. 1712
Newsgroups: sci.research
From: cons052@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Pres Smith)
Subject: Physics Journals Wanted
Keywords: Physics Journals, Russia
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:44:06 GMT

      I received the following, but am in the field of education and
not familiar with sources or availability.  Can anyone help out?  Contact
the writer below directly.  Thanks    Pres Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Prescott Smith   -  Univ. of Mass/Amherst   -  pgsmith@UCSVAX.ucs.umass.edu
     Ednet - a forum exploring the educational potential of the Internet
   e-mail to:  Listserv@nic.umass.edu   1st line:  Sub Ednet (Your Name)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


mike@ms.pti.spb.su     

Subj: Journals 

Organization: Ioffe Institute, Russia


Dear Prescoth Smith,

it was a great pleasure for us  to receive your message. To make
more exact our question we would like to descibe  our  situation
in detail. We are physicists,  working in  the field  of surface
physics and solid state  physics.  The most interesting  for  us
are the next journals:

Physical Rewiev B
Physical Rewiev Letters
Surface Science
Surface Science Letters
Surface Science Reports
Journal of Chemical Physics.

Unfortunately, our library don't  receive these journals in 1992
at  all.  Since we  have to pay mailing  fees depending  on  the
length of the messages, the best way for us  is to  receive  the
contents  of  journals  and then   to   enquire  the   necessary
articles.

    We would be most grateful if you could send our question to
anybody, who can help to us.

Sincerely yours,
Michael Sushchih, Dmitrii Kolgunov,
Ioffe Institute, St.-Petersburg, Russia.
mike@ms.pti.spb.su




-- 
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  Amherst, MA  01003           413/253-5527        pgsmith@Titan.ucc.umass.edu
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Newsgroups: sci.research.careers