From: jgreely@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (J Greely)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Stolen Guns (Was: Dressed for Rape)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:52:16 -0500
Organization: Ohio State University Computer and Information Science
	<x5h3m1j@rpi.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu
In-reply-to: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu's message of Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:02:12 GMT

In article <x5h3m1j@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
 (John S. Van Etten) writes:
>I don't understand why that should mean that I shouldn't have to
>learn to lock my 1911-A1 when I carry it with a round in the chamber
>(and cocked), in order to be less likely (statistically) to have an
>accidental discharge with it.

Quite the contrary; you should learn that a cocked pistol is in an
unsafe condition, and be aware that relying on a mechanical safety is
taking a serious risk.  Maybe you feel justified taking that risk, but
it's the job of your safety instructor to make sure you *know* it's a
risk.

  So, where's the muzzle pointed when you're carrying cocked and
locked?  Does it *ever* point at anything you wouldn't like to
destroy?  When was the last time a good 'smith looked at the wear on
your safety?

>>Anything the muzzle crosses can potentially be destroyed.
>A great rule, but too simple.  Bullets have trajectory, as we all
>know, and don't follow a simple line of sight rule.

Yeah, so?  If you want to get pedantic, feel free to amend the rule to
"anything in the general direction the muzzle is pointing".  Most
people grok gravity sufficiently to understand that the bullet will
eventually hit the ground.

>The limiting case is if I fire the rifle straight up into the air
>(don't try this at home, folks!) and the bullet comes back down with
>enough force to put my eye out (probably despite my shooting
>glasses).

This limiting case is mostly an irrelevant case.  Actually, if you
fire a gun straight up, about the only place you can be pretty sure it
*won't* land is where you're standing.  This has been hashed out again
recently in rec.guns; the short answer is "go read _Hatcher's
Notebook_".
        Hatcher's Notebook
        by Julian S. Hatcher, Major General, USA, Retired
        Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
        ISBN 0-8117-0614-1
        $24.95 (hardcover)

>The fact that such things happen even to world class competitors would
>seem to reinforce my thought that people should be taught to safe
>weapons (whenever possible) until on target.

Do you mean by rendering it inoperable, or by engaging a mechanical
safety?  If the former, I agree.  If the latter, it's a nice warm
fuzzy, but is neither necessary nor sufficient for safety.

>Hope what I said about trajectories was clear.  My point is that
>since the average shooter isn't a Cray, knowing where the trajectory
>will place the bullet at all times isn't possible.

If it were, no one would shoot for fun.  As it is, the "laser beam"
rule is, to a first approximation, accurate, except in border cases
that rarely arise and can be covered in the secondary safety rules.
Most collections of safety rules discuss the importance of knowing
where the bullet will go (approximately) if it misses the intended
target; it's not necessary to be a Cray to figure out that it's going
"that-a-way", and will eventually land somewhere "over there".

  If people want to shoot straight up, their safety training should
encourage them to ask themselves "where will it land", and the answer
"gee, I don't know" should be sufficient to prevent the action.
Resolving the question does not in any way depend on terminal
velocity, ballistic coefficient, muzzle velocity, or wind speed.  A
well-seasoned tree stump should have a fair chance of figuring this
one out.

>>Don't point the damn thing at anything you don't want a hole in!
>And use the safety if you've got one! :-)

...but don't think that the safety makes it safe!

  On the subject of the 1911-A1, didn't Colt get successfully sued in
the seventies by someone whose pistol discharged after he lowered the
hammer to the "half-cock safety" position?


			"A splendid weapon for defending oneself in a
			 crowded elevator."
				-- General Creighton Abrams,
				   describing the M1911A1
-- 
J Greely (jgreely@cis.ohio-state.edu; osu-cis!jgreely)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns