HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 14:32:23 GMT
Keywords: relationships long-term lengthy

In article <wood.724690404@jfred> wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
>gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman) writes:
>>Part of this  
>>all came about because of an argument I was having with a friend recently.   
>>He basically said that gays can't and don't want to commit to one  
>>person...and I loudly disagreed...
>
>You should disagree.  His statement is a lot of hooey.  [...]

Some things you might not have thought of for your response:

Straight people are not exactly models of fidelity, since half of all
straight marriages end in divorce, yet no one takes that ststistic to
mean that straights "don't want commitment."  Now consider that straight
people have family, friends, and societal institutions to keep those
marriages together, yet half of straight marriages fail.  The same
forces are either trying to drive motss unions apart, or _at_best_ are not
supporting them, yet many motss unions last for many years.  That
speaks pretty strongly for the desire of many gays and lesbians to form
lasting unions, and their ability to do so despite not getting the help
that straight people take for granted.

It's true that _some_ people can't commit to motss relationships though
they they may want them; it's true that some prefer to remain single --
just as is true among straight people.
-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
"There are no good guys.  There's bad guys and worse guys.  The best one
can hope for is to defend the bad against the worse."
                                 -- {Almost History} by Christopher Bram
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:57:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.074448.16874@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> In case any relatively new motssers are confused, I'll lay this out
> for you:
> 
> The cabal does exist. This argument was manufactured to think that
> there are fractures in the cabal. We planned it all in e-mail two
> weeks ago.

Was this designed to make sure that we relatively old motssers are
confused as well?
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: OH GIRL! (Re: whiskey, whisky)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:00:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234046.9912@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.161225.18792@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>>the Scottish distillation goes by W.H.I.S.K.Y., while Irish, and
>>similar if inferior swill from other...uh...  parts, is spelled
>>W.H.I.S.K.E.Y.  This is very important.
>
>alright, I might as well ask now, because I honestly don't know and
>I'd rather ask here where there's a minimum of embarassment instead of
>waiting until I'm trying to pick up some gorgeous man with a soft
>Irish accent in a bar and I make a fool of myself:
>
>what are the differences between
>
>whiskey
>whisky
>Scotch whisky ("scotch")
>Irish whiskey ("Irish"?)
>Canadian whiske?y
>
>I know that scotch/irish/canadian are all subsets of "whiske?y". I
>also know that there are blended whiske?ys and single malt whiske?ys,
>and I've been told that all Canadian stuff is blended.
>
>So what I want to know is, what's the proper name for that wonderful
>single malt stuff that tasted like the very peat bogs? Can one talk of
>"blended Scotch" and "single malt Scotch"? Does one order a glass of
>"Irish on the rocks"?

I was sitting around the house the other night, feeling really sexy,
wearing black satin pantyhose, white high-heels, a gold miniskirt, a
low-cut white silk blouse, big hair, with my friend Blue-Jean Nate,
and we were sipping wine and cocktalis, we were feeling pretty good,
you know, and I says, I says JEAN, JEAN you want to taste somethings
real nice, and JEAN Jean she says yes honey, so I put my white
high-heel up in her face ancdd she said OOH that tastes wonderful aas
she licked the patent leather all over, and nibble don the edge. I
says, I sazays JEAN, you're gonna make my butt wet likkin that thing
like that, and JEAN, she says ooh, honey, my butts already wet. she
put the spike heel in her mouth, and got her lipstick all over it and
licked it some good, and I knew my butt was wet, so I pressed the
spike heel right into her cock, and she giggled and says, she says
"ooh". We stopped for a minnit, and I says, GIRLFRIEND, whatcho want
to drink now. Before we get down to some serious shrimpwork. Honey?
JEAN looks at me, she looks at me with those big blue eyes, and she
says, she says, MISS GIRL, I WANT SOME WHIS-KAAAAY eyouuuuuueeeee!  I
got out the JD, and we had ourselfs a real fine time. Know what I
mean?
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: EDIAS@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU (EMILIANO A DIAS)
Subject: Re: Roseanne and The "Faggot" Insult 
Organization: UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS - AMHERST
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:38:27 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

> >       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
> 
> Yeah, but the whole "Roseanne Is Cool" aura wears off a little when I
> read in Newsweek, as I did in this week's issue (with Princess Di on
> the cover (incidentally, let me direct this message of support to Di:
> "go on girl!")), that she called some TV reviewer a "faggot" because
> the reviewer wrote a negative review of Tom Arnold's new show, The
> Jackie Thomas Show.  Does this rub anybody else the wrong way?  Is
> anybody getting rubbed at all right now?  Could you elaborate for me -
> I'd like to have a sex life - even if only vicariously.

Well Roseanne appeared on The Tonight Show to comment about this incident.
She claims that this critic has never liked anything that she has ever done.
Furthermore, she stated that he never criticizes her programs only her.
She said that he refered to her as "Bitch", "Fat" and "Slut" in his column.
She retaliated, imaturely but hey, by writing him a personal not and I
guess she did call him a faggot in it.  She said that she never wanted
the comment to be a public thing, unlike him, but that he made it a public 
thing.  And she appologized sorta, by saying that the insult wasn't
meant to insult gay people, it was meant only to insult him.

       anyone else want to elaborate or add anthing, go ahead...

							Tony Dias

Xref: sparky soc.motss:52977 alt.politics.homosexuality:8155
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Hi Honey, I'm home (GKTT85)
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:17:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.235121.25294@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.194132.2568@psych.toronto.edu>, jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>
>> Lessons of Life #241432:
>
>You're taking the accelerated course, I see. I've only got up to
>#175942 (and I've been at it more than 20 years longer... guess I'm a
>slow learner).

I'm a fast learner & can be trained to perform simple tasks.  B{)

>> I could claim that the names were changed to protect the innocent, but
>> neither one of them strike me as having *ever* been innocent.  B{) 
>
>[blushes, looks at floor, examines fingernails]

And he's *so cute* when he blushes!

>And while we're on the subject, I'll mention that Brian, on the
>occasion of his visit in September, was looking pretty tasty
>himself... just as I remembered from his home turf.

My turn to blush, although I don't do it as well.  Thanks!

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
From: max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cramer spoiling the party
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:33:55 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Dec15.222340.5104@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>In article <1glaorINNqns@oak23.doc.ic.ac.uk>, kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell) writes:
>
>[suggestion to ignore Cramer, with which I heartily agree]
>
>> Has it been tried before?  (spot the 
>> relative newcomer)
>
>Well, it's been *proposed* before, often. I don't know that it's ever
>really been "tried". It's hard to tell, because it only takes one
>mistake to ruin everyone else's attempt...

It's been tried before.  It works for a while.  But, like Herpes, it never
seems to go away.

My personal suggestion:

If a cramer posting offends you, copy the entire message and send it
to him and root@optilink.COM with a note at the top simply stating that
you are offended.  DO NOT set up an automatic script to do this because
that would be letter-bombing.  Do it yourself, manually.  

If just 1% of the readers of Soc.Motss did this I'm sure we could save
the Net and Motss from cramer.

Just a thought.

-- 
+-----------------------------------------+
|  max@queernet.org  |   Max J. Rochlin   |
+-----------------------------------------+
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Apology for Misspelled Name
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:27:17 GMT
Distribution: usa

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In an earlier posting, I said Brian Blumberg; it's Bryan.
>Sorry.

Don't let it happen again. :-)

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:55:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec16.215513.21001
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Dec16.192621.8730@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>But, on a more practical if less *faabulous* note, you could bake
>triangular cookies, daub them with pink icing and charm your
>assembled co-workers with stories of that symbol's origins.

At Reed, one rule of events for students is that if they are to be
successful, free food must be served.

So for Coming Out day, we wanted to have some sort of food. My worst
mistake I made my entire freshman year was to recommend that we bring
pink triangle rice krispy treats. No it's a hideous tradition.

For queer men, I like the idea of quiche with lots of sundried
tomatoes, fresh linguine in a light cream sauce, and an airy, witty
desert such as a light pastry.

For queer women, I think Melinda's already made the stereotypical
suggestion... :-)
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                        The switches set you free my friend
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Chicago Joins Colorado Boycott
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:42:33 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

Jim Nasiatka:
> Today, Mayor Richard M. Daley (the II) proposed that the 
> annual convention of mayors, which is scheduled to be held
> in June in Colorado Springs should be moved to some other 
> location that is more friendly to all people, including gays/
> lesbians.  He also hinted that if it were not moved, he would
> not be interested in attending.
> 
> Way to go Ritchie!!!!

Unfortunately, this is just the kind of politically-safe gesture that
Daley loves to take advantage of. In the years that I've followed
Chicago politics, Daley has always been all too willing to pay lip
service to the gay/lesbian community, but when it comes to doing
something substantial, he usually has to be dragged into it after
months of badgering and harrassment from activists.

Who was it that quipped "Daley = Delay"?

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
	<1992Dec11.013428.14306@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec11.024253.25058@spdcc.com>
	<1992Dec14.012654.27377@wolves.Durham.NC.US>
Date: 14 Dec 92 03:55:32

In article <1992Dec14.012654.27377@wolves.Durham.NC.US>
wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes: 

	   Or have we forgotten that the freedom we have to speak depends
   on defending the freedom to speak for EVERYONE.

	   Better to put up with a bit of discomfort than to submit to
   tyranny -- whether the tyranny be of the "fundies" or of the
   "politically correct."

............

Am I reading this right?  Do you really think "freedom of speech"
means "freedom from criticism"?

And, if the criticism is itself speech, how does free speech defend
the original and not the criticism?

- Bob  [sensing that nature abhors a long string of articles which
don't mention "political correctness"]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: PDA's
Keywords: Roseanne, Newsweek, Unconcious marines, straight friends, Too Out
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:34:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.034451.24187@u.washington.edu> rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.195318.19119@exu.ericsson.se> exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:
>>
>>Also - 
>>
>>Is there such a thing as being "too out"?  I'm becoming interested in
>>this guy that makes me look like I'm cowering in the farthest darkest
>>corner of The Closet - me - the same person who rampaged through my
>>neighborhood in order to find out who was distributing the anti-gay
>>literature for one of the local Republican judicial candidates.
>>Anyway, he wonders why I would feel awkward at holding his hand
>>walking down the mall.  *I* wonder why I would feel awkward holding
>>his hand walking down the mall.  
>
>There is a great "Dykes To Watch Out For" cartoon along this line: This
>one dyke talking to another in a restaurant, going on about just how out
>she is: out to her parents *and* boss, wears gay pins in public, etc, etc,
>and in the next to the last box, when the other women reaches across the table
>and takes her hand...  She freaks!     
>
>I am very physically affectionate, and not very well-mannered in public;
>I *believe* in P(hysical) D(isplays of) A(ffection).  I don't think I
>could date someone any more that wasn't willing to let me kiss them or
>put my arm around them in public.
>
>My SO sometimes gets nervous if we are around kids and their parents in
>public.  I don't know for sure if this is because she really does think it
>(lesbo sex...) is too dirty to be seen by children ;-) or she just is
>afraid some protective parent is going to kill us someday.  ((I know it
>pissed me off, but I try to let her have a comfort level))

In Europe (Continental Europe) I have only been able to discern
Lesbians by one of the 8 telltale haircuts or by giveaway sloganeering
teeshirts. Motorcycle boots help sometimes. PDA's by women here are
useless for identifying anything except that they are happy - women
kiss, hold hands, hug and go on without giving off 'romantic love'
vibes. All the time. Men usually kiss on greeting friends, however, I
have yet to kiss a straight american man (except in California, where
all my straight male friends were very cool and eventually moved to
Europe anyway). I remember asking two young Italian women about it
some years back, and they shrieked that they didn't want to have sex,
they were just very good friends (and proceeded to kiss and hug to
prove a point).

As for England, many people have hinted that PDA's are an arrestable
offense punishable by broken kneecaps and electroshock therapy. I
guess that is why men blanch when I grab them and kiss hello in
public.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander)
Subject: Re: cobalt musings 2
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:43:12 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Paul Bobbitt <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:

>Of course, I've noticed that many morning people seem 
>more peaceful in general than their night equivalents.

Since you only see us in the morning, what do you expect?  Try
staying up past your bedtime some night -- you're in for a treat.

-- 
Tovah Hollander
tovah@panix.com -or- tovah@onion.salad.mssm.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: weird trees
Keywords: aluminum, tacky, unfathomable
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:35:24 GMT

In article <BzD7CF.K3G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jlajka@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason Michael Lajka) writes:

>Aluminum Christmas trees were before my time (born in '74)

uh-oh...we missed a saint guys!

(damn, it's not a woman, either!)

season


-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 09:27:45 CST
From: <U32668@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject:    Christmas in Spokane, WA.

I'm going to be visiting my family in Spokane over the Christmas
holiday (Dec. 19-25).  Even though I grew up there, I bolted as
soon as I left high school, then came out, etc., etc.  I would love
to check out the gay scene (if any) that exists there.

Does anyone know of any bars, clubs, etc. in Spokane?  Knowing that
town, I'm sure they're very well hidden.  I'd appreciate any info,
before I fly out Saturday morning.

Thanks in advance...

David Moore (who has yet to design a signature he can live with)
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: That dead horse
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 21:38:00 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1gaqnkINNprj@mizar.usc.edu> <1gavugINNrm8@mizar.usc.edu>
  <13636@optilink.COM>

Cl*yt*n Cr*m*r writes:
>Ignorance, of course, is a homosexual's stock in trade, as
>Mr. Adolphson so often demonstrates.

Migawd... and I thought Cr*m*r would never write anything I
could so much as partially agree with!  (The first clause is
clearly too sweeping, but the second is *beauty*! ;-)

 
() I'll defend to the death your right to say that, but I
() never said I'd listen to it!
()      -- Tom Galloway, with apologies to Voltaire
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: roger@otago.ac.nz (Roger Grauwmeijer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Outed by the 'phone company?
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:02:00 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <memo.809852@cix.compulink.co.uk>, dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Diane Bailey) writes:
> 
> How do help and advice lines provide confidentiality for their
> callers in countries where 'phone bills itemise the numbers
> called?
>
[...]
> 
> What is the situation in other countries?

Here in New Zealand, Telecom list only toll calls on domestic accounts but
no doubt that will change if we ever go to a per call local charge. I've no
idea what their opposition, Clear, do.

Likewise, at work ALL calls are logged and cited on accounts sent to each
department. Although it don't bother *me* 8-) I'm sure this may be of concern
to some of our closetted staff.

Rog.
-- 
      ____
100%  \  / Roger Grauwmeijer                       Internet: roger@otago.ac.nz
QUEER  \/  B0 f-- t+ w c g(+) k(-) s+ e: h- p!              Ph: +64 3 479 8560
Operations Controller, Computing Services Centre           Fax: +64 3 479 8577
University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Dunedin, N.Z.             AH: +64 3 474 0352
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`You are perfect, you are sheer, If you are a redhead queer' - Erasure (No GDM)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Cramer spoiling the party
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:12:46 GMT


In article <1glaorINNqns@oak23.doc.ic.ac.uk>, kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell) writes:
|> 
|> It's probably not the best idea to do this openly, but Clayton
|> Cramer seems to waste so much bandwidth letting us know the
|> extent of his bigotry, I thought, wouldn't he eventually give
|> up and go away if we took it upon ourselves NOT to reply to
|> his narrow-minded drivellous spoutings?

The problem is that there is no "ourselves" to do anything.
A bunch of individuals, all in different universes.

What's true is that KKKramer doesn't get anywhere 
near the response he used to - he used to be able
to take over soc.motss, and compared to those days
he *is* ignored.

I noticed that even though there wasn't much response
to him, I would still periodically read his postings.
So today, I put him in my kill file. 

I don't like kill files, but I think this might be an
appropriate situations.

|> I really have no idea what motivates him, but I would like to
|> think that a blanket of silence on our part would take away
|> some of that motivation.  This would involve e-mailing new
|> soc.motssers when we spotted them, in case they were lured into
|> arguing with him.  Has it been tried before?  (spot the 
|> relative newcomer)

Tried, and tried, and tried.  I've gotten mail from
people and explained back why I sometimes responded
to him.  It may work for other people, though.

If you do send mail, make sure it's in the form of
a request, with some good reasons.  That's the best
you can do.


-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:42:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.215513.21001@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>For queer men, I like the idea of quiche with lots of sundried
>tomatoes, fresh linguine in a light cream sauce, and an airy, witty
>desert such as a light pastry.

For desert, might I suggest a lemon dainty?

--scoT

No really, they're good.

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison)
Subject: Re: State laws regarding same-sex marriage
Keywords: marriage legal gay
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:27:10 GMT

ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:

+Actually, it's Article IV: "Full faith and credit shall be given in
+each state to the public acts, records and judicial recordings of
+every other state."  Later it goes on to say, "The citizens of each
+state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in
+the several states."

Anyone know whether this could be used to assault Colorado 2?

Seems to me that denying priveleges that are part of assumed rights
elsewhere should be in violation of that Article.

Hutch