HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Pollution and Animal Death
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:58:00 GMT



 Pollution & Animal Death

A message from the Animal Protection Institute:
 
We are investigating a major problem in Northern California involving a
contaminated landfill which is killing pets and wild animals. It is also
reported to be causing health problems of the people living in the area.
Unfortunately, it appears that there is a major "cover-up" of the facts
regarding responsibility and liability for the damage. I would like to hear
from people who are knowledgeable about similar problems in other locals and
what was done to successfully deal with the problem. Any ideas as to how to
proceed such as government agencies to contact, ways to file in the courts
and other info regarding an air-tight investigation are welcomed. Also I
would like to get an idea about how wide-spread this problem is, so let me
know of any other cases of pollution and animal health issues. Please
contact me by CompuServe e-mail (73707,352) or write to me directly: Dr.
David J. Berkman, Executive Director, Animal Protection Institute, 2831
Fruitridge Rd. Sacramento, CA 95820 (tel:916-731-5521, FAX:916-731-4467).
Your help is very much appreciated and will assist in our investigation and
reporting.
 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Closure on Sport Hunting.
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:12:28 GMT
	<1992Jul23.003958.10047@informix.com> <BrvMoG.7Jt@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
In-reply-to: v070qg5d@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 24 Jul 92 05:48:00 GMT

In article <BrvMoG.7Jt@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070qg5d@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel) writes:
   >(John S. Van Etten) writes:
   >>I find it quite hypocritical for people that eat meat to say I'm some
   >>sort of Bad Person (tm) for hunting while they're sitting there
   >>munching on a burger or a steak.  

      Just to play the devil's advocate, isn't there a diference
   between killing an animal to eat and killing one just because you
   enjoy killing them?

Many hunters, including myself, will not kill anything they are not
going to eat.  I approve of the killing of varmints such as prairie
dogs but I won't do.  I generally don't approve of the killing of
predator animals like wolves and lions.

But considering the lifes of a wild deer and a factory-farmed animal,
I tend to ignore anti-hunters that are not vegetarians.

tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: SILVER SPRING MONKEYS
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:25:39 GMT


From ar-news-request@Think.COM Wed Jul 22 04:25:12 1992
SILVER SPRINGS MONKEYS; EDWARD TAUB

 
* New Judge Acts in Silver Spring Monkey Suit - A new judge has
been appointed to hear PCRM's lawsuit requesting an investigation
into fraud in the fatal experiment conducted on five of the Silver
Spring Monkeys.  U.S. District Court Judge William B. Bryant is the
third judge to take on the case.  The case was originally assigned
to Judge John Garrett Penn, and was later reassigned to Judge
Michael Boudin.  When Judge Boudin resigned from the court, Judge
Bryant took over.  During the two years that the case has dragged
on, five monkeys have been killed in the experiment.
 
     On March 17, Judge Bryant decided to allow a limited discovery
process into how the experiments were funded, reversing the
previous judge's action which barred discovery.  This process may
determine whether the case goes forward.
 
     In 1981, the monkeys were seized by police from the Silver
Spring, Maryland, laboratory of Edward Taub, a federally funded
experimenter who severed the nerves to one or more limbs and then
observed the results.  Taub's grant was discontinued when his
laboratory failed to meet federal standards.  During the past few
years, the monkeys have been kept at Delta Regional Primate
Research Center, where the new set of brain experiments tested
various parts of the brain to see which body parts they could
sense.  Documents leaked from the American Physiological Society
and other sources suggested that the fatal experiment was used, in
part, as a means of getting rid of the monkeys under a shroud of
science.  The U.S. Office of Scientific Integrity Review has
refused to investigate the case.
 
 From: Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
 PO Box 6322, Washington, DC 20015
 PCRM Update: Spring 1992
 
 *  AmNet News Service * BBS 303/223-1297  *
 * P.O. Box 9517 * Ft. Collins, CO * 80525 *
 * N.Y.C. Node 212/724-6826 FIDO 1:278/716 *
 * Denver Node 303/364-2257 FIDO 1:104/536 *
--  
Internet: Amnet.News.Service@f12.n306.z1.fidonet.org
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: HUNTING NEWS
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:30:46 GMT



Re: HUNTING NEWS

Ferrell S. Wheeler writes:

>+ The National Shooting Sports Foundation claims that taking a 
>bath is twice as dangerous as hunting because 350 people per
>year drown in their bathtubs, while "only" 146 people were killed 
>by hunters.  However, the 16 million licensed hunters hunt fewer
>than 10 days a year on average.  Thus if the 251 million Americans 
>bathe on average once a day, 83,665 people per year would
>drown in bathtubs if bathing and hunting really were equally 
>dangerous hunters would kill only one person every four years.
> 
> From: Animals Agenda
> 456 Monroe Turnpike
> Monroe, CT 06468
> Issue: 5/92

John S. Van Etten writes:

>     You see, very few Americans spend the *entire* d-mn day from
> sunup to sundown *bathing*.  
.....
> Those stats would be meaningful *only* if the entire time people spent
> hunting during a *full* day were equal to the time they spent bathing
> during a day.

John's quibble is a fascinating one.  He desires the statistics
to be more properly amortized over time.  I will happily oblige.
Let's put the bathtub encounter to be 30 minutes and a typical
hunting excursion to be 6 hours.  Then, in terms of deaths per
man-hour hunting is 20 times more dangerous than bathing.  If
we halve the bathtub stay or double the hunting time, then hunting 
becomes 10 times more dangerous.  If we do both then it becomes
5 times more dangerous.

I think the point of the original post is that NSSF's claim is
ludicrous.  But hey, without their claim we wouldn't have had
this joyous excursion into elementary arithmetic.

Take care,

Ferrell Wheeler
wheeler@super.org
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Letter to John Robinson
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:37:49 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul20.112736.6595@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:

>don't know of any hunters that revel in the kill.  And that, Paul, is the 
>point that sailed oh so effortlessly over your head.
>

Oh John, just when there seems some hope of actually discussing stuff, you
decide that it's time to start spinkling more abuse about. Guess I was
naive to think that we could do better than that ...
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Closure on Sport Hunting.
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:39:58 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <zfsxhwd@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:

> I
>find it quite hypocritical for people that eat meat to say I'm some
>sort of Bad Person (tm) for hunting while they're sitting there
>munching on a burger or a steak.  

Happy to find somethinmg we can agree on. Let me say that I agree with you 
there.

Paul
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Subject: Re: Re; Texas AR Conference
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:14:43 GMT

Kenneth D. Whitehead writes:

>kw> Hope all you Lone Start hunters take a special interest in this 
>kw> conference;  maybe you need to pay them a visit and give these 
>kw> people a taste of the kind of "opening day antics" they've been 
>kw> subjecting hunters to for years. 
>
>[Russell Lawrence writes:]
>>Another interesting idea.  Do you think such a demonstration would
>>give Ted Nugent a chance to see how hunters who aren't "yahoos"
>>can present the issues in a rational manner?
>
>
>Well, gosh, all I'm talking about is peaceful protest, nothing else.
>You guys do it to us, and I love seeing it done back to you, because
>turnabout is certainly fair play.  What's the matter, don't you believe
>in the First Amendment?  You certainly fall back on it enough when it
>serves your purposes (once again, talking about the AR movement in 
>general, not you specifically).  If you don't want hunters showing
>up to protest your AR conference, then tell your cohorts not to bother
>us at the NRA Whitetail Clinic, etc., and out in the woods.  What goes 
>around comes around.

For the record, let me now say that I fully back Ken's idea of having
a "peaceful protest."  My previous comment was about his use of the
phrase "opening day antics," as quoted above, and clearly the average
hunter is above such AR tripe.  That is the only reason I took any
exception to it.
     A peaceful demonstration would indeed be a *very good thing*.  We
don't want the squeaky little wheels getting *all* the grease, now do
we?  Are there any hunters down there in Texas that can set something
up?  Also, does anyone know of any upcoming events here in NY that a
couple thousand of my buddies from the Conservation Club could
"attend?"  I'm serious about this folks.  Ken has a very good idea
here.  No need for shouting and carrying on.  Just a show of face and
a few (thousand) posters carried around.


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Subject: Re: Moral judgements
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:26:04 GMT

Robert Black writes:

[reams of stuff deleted]
Tom Swenson writes:
>>In a few years when they have increased their numbers they will go 
>>after the consumption of meat.  Isn't it true that most hard core animal 
>>rights advocates are vegetarians?  
>
>Of course.  If they weren't, you would rightfully castigate them for
>their hypocrisy ...  and if you didn't, then the ever vigilant John Van
>Etten, who's always on the lookout for hypocrisy, would not let it go
>unnoticed ;-).

How true. :-)  Seriously, I have a big problem with AR-types that eat
meat.  What are their justifications?  If they are only out to prevent
unneccessary cruelty in animal experiments, I have no problem with it.
But I wouldn't consider them to be AR-types, because then you'd have
to call me one. :-P :-)


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Looking for Artists
Date: 25 Jul 92 02:04:44 GMT



                              M.A.N. - TV
                     Modern Animal News Television
                        Post Office Box 477219
                     Chicago, Illinois  60647-7219
                          Phone (312) 278-9011
                           Fax (708) 393-2941
 
June 15, 1992
 
Dear Artists for the Animals:
 
We are seeking artists from Chicago and around the world to donate their
valuable time and energies to help in defense of the animals. "The
International Artist's Auction for the Animals" is to be held at the
BackBurner Clearinghouse at Randolph & Racine in Chicago on Saturday,
October 10, 1992.  It will coincide with a sneak preview of "Modern Animal
News Television," a new show focusing on the welfare and defense of animals
around the globe.  Arrangements are being made to have the auction called by
a professional livestock auctioneer, who would be donating his or her time
to the event.
 
This event will bring in elite buyers from all over, and will also bring
together artists' works that will help Animal Rights Mobilization continue
their precious efforts to help the animal kingdom. Most of the proceeds from
the sale of your donated work would go to A.R.M., but each artist would
receive a percentage of the sales price directly. Bids will start at either
$10.00 or $100.00 depending on the nature of the piece.
 
Please help us make this unique event successful by contacting MAN- TV to
tell us about your artistic contribution.
 
DEADLINE FOR ENTRY IS SEPTEMBER 20, 1992 so that we may enter your name in
our programs, and secure a space for you at BackBurner Clearinghouse. Please
call us even if you just want to discuss the auction. A private reception
for any of the artists who are in Chicago will be scheduled for October 5,
1992.
 
We think this exciting event will be a great opportunity for artists to help
the animal kingdom while promoting their work. Segments of the auction will
be taped and broadcast on an upcoming episode of Modern Animal News
Television.  MAN-TV looks forward to hearing from you soon!
 
Cordially yours,
 
L.A. Scott
Executive Producer
Modern Animal News Television
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Closure on Sport Hunting.
Date: 20 Jul 92 21:39:55 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1dmxw7@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
>>
>>John, you object to foolish stereotyping of hunters, yes? ("hate animals
>>and want to kill them all"). If we are to have any useful discussion, why
>>don't you go easy on the stupid stereotyping of what AR people actually
>>do? Personally I have never fed bunnies in a park and I don't know of
>>anyone who has. 
>
>Your point is well taken, Paul.  I got a bit carried away on this post
>and I appologize for that.  What would you like to discuss?
>

Thanks .. yes, feelings run high and we all get a bit carried away.

>
>>>     I really think the anti-hunter hatred that has been bred in you
>>
>>I don't hate hunters, John.
>
>Hate is admittedly too strong a word, although my comments were not
>directed at you in specific.  Would it be better for me to say that
>you guys hate hunting or hate killing instead?  If it's the latter,
>I'm not sure you'll find many hunters that don't feel the same.
>
>
>John

I guess that what I hate is the infliction of pain, distress, violence
and death on unwilling participants. Now, it is possible that I am
wrong in thinking that significant amounts of these occur to the
animals that are hunted. 

I can't help wondering: if hunters hate killing as much as you say, then
why do they do it? Why not get into, say, wildlife photography instead?
I don't
pretend to understand the pyschology of hunting, but it would seem to me
that you could have much the same experience but culminating in pressing
a camera shutter instead of pulling a trigger? - The stalking is still 
there, the elements of skill and patience, the time spent in nature, etc.
Presumably this would not be a comparable experience for you; I am curious
as to why not.

Paul
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Letter to John Robinson
Date: 20 Jul 92 21:20:48 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul17.110048.6563@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Jul16.161229.20082@clpd.kodak.com>, black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul14.112456.6502@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>>In article <1992Jul13.174125.41518@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dreamer@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (David Caruso II ~~~) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> John Robinson wrote to David Caruso II:
>>>......  Would you think more highly of hunters if they dragged their 
>>>heels as they went into the woods, reluctant to dicharge a distateful 
>>>duty?
>> 
>> 				YES
>
>Well some people think that one shouldn't have fun dancing, one shouldn't 
>have fun drinking, and one definately shouldn't have fun in the bedroom.  In 
>fact, when one digs a little deeper, such people feel that no one should ever 
>have fun doing much of anything.  Are you one of these people?
>

Well, this question wasn't addressed to me, but since it was addressed
to someone who said something I agree with, here's my 2c worth:

I am all in favour of people having fun, I am just rather perturbed
when that fun appears to be had at the price of pain, distress, violence
and death inflicted on unwilling participants.


>I take a different view.  For me, it is not important to do work that I 
>enjoy.  It is important for me to be able to find aspects of my work that I 
>do enjoy.  Fun is where you find it.  It seems absurd to me to suggest that 
>people should spend their leisure time doing something they don't enjoy.

I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to suggest that people       
"should spend their leisure time doing something they don't enjoy" (does
this concept even make any sense? - if I was doing something I didn't
enjoy, I wouldn't call that a leisure activity, would I?).


>
>People who suggest that one should not enjoy any recreational activity are 
>silly.

I don't think anyone is saying that. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: HARES; INTUBATION; ZOOS; FUR
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:06:54 GMT

 wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler) writes:


>The Irish Parliament refuses to act to end Hare Coursing, a bloody act in
>which greyhounds are trained to literally tear apart wild- caught hares.
>(Cats, birds and rabbits are killed by the dogs in training sessions.)
>Parliament insists that coursing attracts tourists; and some members are
>attempting to have it declared a National Sport. Please write to the
>following individuals and let them know that you will not visit Ireland as
>long as such barbaric events take place.

	How many IRA-backed bombings, random deaths of civilians, police,
and soldiers alike, and the cry is to end a greyhound killing a rabbit?
There is no doubt in my mind that somebody can't see the big picture here.

>In 1990, 60 Minutes revealed details of the sale of surplus zoo animals
>(specifically: San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco Zoos) to animal
>dealers, who in turn, sold the animal to breeding/canned hunt ranches.

	Strangely enough, this is how a free market system operates.  If
you don't like it, post a standing offer to pay 10% more than any ranch
and be prepared to receive some animals.

>Celebrities and fur!  The following individuals are either lost in the past
>or have hearts of stone considering the well-known realities of the fur
>trade and animals suffering!
> 
>Bo Derek in Conquistador Magazine wearing an arctic fox with head still
>attached:
	Cool!  You have a GIF of that you could upload? Bo Derek!  Drool...

	Sorry, as a motorcyclist you'll have a very hard time convincing
me my skin is not worth protecting with leather, and I extend that to fur.
Warmest coat I ever had was of sheepskin, but I suspect a raccoon coat
would be rather confortable on cold days too.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: ALTERNATIVES; AIDS; COLON CANCER
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:17:15 GMT


ALTERNATIVES; AIDS; COLON CANCER

 
* New Cell Technique in Colon Cancer - Researchers affiliated with
the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, have developed
a new method that may not only give clinicians an easier test for
colon cancer, but may also provide a new avenue for cancer
research.  The researchers have managed to stabilize and isolate
live human colon cells from stool samples, obtaining 20 million
cells from a single sample.  The cellular changes that occur in the
initial stages of the disease are of interest both to physicians
screening for cancer and to cancer researchers.
 
* AIDS Vaccine Skips Animal Tests - The World Health Organization
announced that a new experimental AIDS vaccine will bypass
conventional animal tests.  HIV does not cause AIDS in non-human
animals, and most species will not even harbor the virus.  "There
is still no good animal model for AIDS," said Allen L.  Goldstein
of the George Washington University.  "We just could not afford to
wait for the development of a model.  I think the Food and Drug
Administration and the World Health Organization recognize this."
 
     Human vaccine trials will begin in Brazil, Rwanda, Thailand,
and Uganda.  Many poorer countries were initially skeptical about
testing the vaccine, but the growing AIDS epidemic has caused them
to change their minds.  To be deemed successful, a vaccine must
show not only changes in blood cell numbers, but actual clinical
benefits.
 
 From: Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
 PO Box 6322, Washington, DC 20015
 PCRM Update: Spring 1992
 
 *  AmNet News Service * BBS 303/223-1297  *
 * P.O. Box 9517 * Ft. Collins, CO * 80525 *
 * N.Y.C. Node 212/724-6826 FIDO 1:278/716 *
 * Denver Node 303/364-2257 FIDO 1:104/536 *
--  
Internet: Amnet.News.Service@f12.n306.z1.fidonet.org
From: robinson@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: gimme a break!
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:54:06 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Check out the headers on this one!  Comes from Dreamer's node.  File it 
under the list of things that make one go Hmmmm! :-)

In article <1992Jul29.0045115.32153@heavenly.forest>, Jake writes:
> 
> 	Come one, folks! I've hunted all kind of animals in my day and I
> would never have considered to be TOO damned hard! Not just anybody can do
> it, but it doesn't take a genius! Just a thirst for killing, and all that!
> Not like you need a Phd or anything! Enough of the tripe!
-- 
John Robinson                  Only criminals, tyrants, and cowards have
robinson@ac.dal.ca                 reason to fear the armed, honest citizen.
DOD #0069
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals