From: dsroberts@beckman.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: How DECUS does business (was Re: EXECUTION of DECUS Standards)
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:36:30 PDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Beckman Instruments

In article <lj24alINNrln@lisboa.cs.utexas.edu>, ctp@cs.utexas.edu (Clyde T. Poole) writes:
> There are currently NO plans that I know of to discontinue DECUServe.
> Their request for capital equipment has been delayed because of the
> current DECUS cash crunch.

As is typical of top leadership, cripple the profitable units whenever things
don't go just as they'd like.  So what if DECUServe has 500 former newsletter
subscribers waiting to get on, and many of them will probably turn into paid
subscribers.  It doesn't matter, just as long as we can keep funding those
meetings.

> I personally will be very upset for example if
> I am forced to use VAX Notes to conduct DECUS business or if it
> becomes a "job requirement" that I read and comment on some set of VAX
> Notes NO MATTER what machine they reside on.  I have tired, but I just
> can't handle the VAX Notes interface and be happy about it.

In other words, the only forum available to even the general leadership 
population is closed to the public but you won't even use that so you
have no desire to stay in touch, eh Clyde?  And how do you expect to get any
perspective other than what you learn from mail?  There have been long and
significant discussions in notes on DCS about the newsletter shut down or
activities of the library committee, but you have no way to know about them or
get the feel for the desires of lower leadership because you purposely choose
to distance yourself from it.  DECUS leadership, for good or ill, chose Notes
as the medium of choice.  That top DECUS leadership refuses to use it is proof
that they don't care about any agenda but their own.

> All DECUS meetings are open to the public except (1) those where
> "personel" issues are discused (2) those where "proprietary"
> information (read competitive information) about the Trade Show are
> discussed.  The MC and the Board of Directors hold many of their
> meetings at Symposium so as to minimize cost to the Society and to
> allow those present to attend if they are so inclined.  YES, we don't
> do a real good job of telling anyone when the meetings are scheduled,
> but I know of no case where a question directed to someone on the
> Board or MC would not result in the information being given to anyone.

Hogwash.  If you read Notes on DCS you'd know this is absolute nonsense.  The
library meeting discussion is a perfect example of why this is a false
statement.  But I do agree you don't do a real good job of telling anyone when
meetings are scheduled.  Take the MC meeting at Las Vegas.  Tuesday, 10AM,
right?  Where was that published?  I only knew about it because I was
specifically asked to attend.

> The MC has made it a policy to INVITE some of the most vocal
> "opposition" as observers at its meetings just to make sure that their
> opinion was heard.  The current money crunch in the Society (U.S.
> Chapter) may make this difficult for awhile, but I am sure we will do
> it again in the future if money permits.

And, invited to your meeting, your chairman cut off all discussion so the
opinion could not be heard.  When was my opportunity to speak at the Tuesday
meeting Clyde?

> It is true that much of the Society's business is conducted on
> confrence calls.  This makes it difficult to have "public" meetings.
> The alternative (face to face meetings) would increase the cost of
> administration considerably.

This I do have to agree with.  DECUS US has a national distributed management
and getting together is expensive and time consuming.  But it seems to me that
a computer society could use electronic media other than the telephone to hold
those meetings, and that would make it a lot more public.  DCS serves this
purpose, but you've already said you refuse to have public meetings (you did
say you won't use Notes) even for the rest of leadership.  The fact is there is
NO REASON for conference calls.  You could even put a news to notes gateway on
DCS, but for some reason this hasn't happened.  Is it perhaps that you don't
want thing public even though you pay lip service to doing so?

> If you have a
> question about a particular decision I made, I will be happy to
> discuss it with you.  

"Discuss" usually implies a give and take of ideas, Clyde.  What evidense do
you offer of the take side?
-- 
   Don Roberts                   Internet:  dsroberts@beckman.com
   Beckman Instruments, Inc.     Phone:     714/961-3029
   2500 Harbor Bl. Mailstop X-12 FAX:       714/961-3351
   Fullerton, CA  92634          Disclaimer:  Blame me, not Beckman.
   "Abortion isn't a 'choice', it's the slaughter of the innocent"