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From: I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh)
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Subject: re:BIG,ENORMOUS QUESTION.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:58:46 +0000








Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: BIG, ENORMOUS, MUST BE WRITTEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:09:33 +0000
From: J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (J.M.Ross)
In Message-ID: <MNEWS.718042173.5115@gate.demon.co.uk> J.M.Ross writes:

>In message <1992Oct1.183354.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> caar18@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
>(no name) writes:

>>I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh) writes
>>>Here is an interesting question for you:

>>>What makes a club big?


 >>   The only measure of how big a club is the size  of its support,
>>specifically the size of its average   home league attendances.
>>Money spent on players etc.  is a measure of how rich the club is,
>>success on domestic /international level is purely a measure of how
>> successful  a club is (or how sometimes how weak its domestic league
>>is ).

>Disagree, support is one factor, performance is another, most specifically
>performance in Europe rather than a domestic league of dubious quality.

>>> 1. Total value of club (I think it is sad when it has to boil
>>> down to money  though).
>>>2. Total number of fans or perhaps average attendance
>>>3. Stadium - size & quality
>>>4. Success in domestic competition
>>>5. Success in international competition
>>>6. Both 5 & 6 combined
>>>7. history/heritage value
>>>8. Contribution to international team
>>>9. Contribution to the benefit of football in general eg
>>>bringing through good young players.

>>  All these other points you mention are important, and all help
>>to determine how good a club is, along with other things like
>> style of football played, club's attitude towards supporters etc.
>>- - but as I say, the only true measure of the size of a club is
>> the size of its crowds.
>>     On this basis, up to this season, and for the preceeding
>>3/4 seasons the title of the biggest club in Britain title would
>> unquestionably belong to Manchester United, who over that period
>> would average 46-47,000 for each home league game, Rangers would
>> consistently be second biggest at 42-43,000, and a group of
>>clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs would clock in at the mid to
>>low 30,000's mark, with Celtic around this group depending on how
>> their season was going.
>>       So to put it simply, Man U's average was larger than
>>Ranger's capacity.

>You seriously overestimate the average attendances at both Old Trafford
>and Ibrox. Rangers have been around 38000 since Souness arrived (apart
>from during the stadium extension), Man Utd until about 5 years ago did
>average 46000-47000, but attendances have declined since then. I think they
>managed about 42000 last season. 3 seasons ago Liverpool actually recorded

Man Utd averaged 44,500 last season, which was impressive considering
their capacity was only about 48,000.

>a higher average attendance than United (just over 39000), although only by a
>couple of hundred. Liverpool and Rangers have been neck and neck for the last
>five years. Arsenal are consistently in the low to mid 30000s and Spurs usually

>manage about 30000. Celtic have averaged 25000-35000 over the last five years
>depending on how well they were playing.

>Best average attendance over a season in England was Newcastle United who
>managed 58000 whilst in Division Two. Man United had a 57000 average one
>season.

>These figures are very small compared to the likes of Benfica, Real Madrid,
>AC Milano, Bayern Mu"nchen.

>+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
>!  James M. Ross                            ! ICL Computers Ltd   !
>+-------------------------------------------+ Wenlock Way         !
>!  Tel:   061 223 1301 x2661                ! West Gorton         !
>!  Email: j.m.ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk   ! MANCHESTER  M12 5DR !
>!  EXAC:  j.m.zzross@uk03                   ! UK                  !
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

Tom.