From: psb@heaven.berkeley.edu (psb)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel
Subject: SUMMARY + REPORT (was King Canyon Advice?)
Date: 23 Jul 1992 07:27:11 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: heaven.berkeley.edu
Summary: Kings Canyon, Cedar Grove area


Hi, I posted a request for info on hiking the area around Cedar Grove in 
Kings Canyon. I'm enclosing a brief story about the trip and concating the
advice sent to me [I had a couple of requests for the info]. I'd like to 
thank everyone who replied and apologize for not thanking them personally,
but I've been pretty busy ...

Scott and I ended up going up the Copper Creek Trail up to Granite Basin.
We got a bit of a late start and camped the first night at a very nice 
camp site around 9000ft (flat ground, reasonably close to water, fire pit,
bear-bagging trees).

We spent the next day wandering around Granite Basin. We ended up not
pushing on because we got separated (because of a bonehead move Scott
pulled ... deciding to take a shortcut without waiting for me, as I
marked the trail. Of course he had all the food, iodine and map and I
had the tent, compass and apparenly the brains. Anyway, he got lost on
the way to Granite Lake and I had to do a fast traverse (with just 1/2
baguette and 1/2qt of water of the Basin up to Granite Pass looking
for him) ... fortunately yelling carried pretty well in the basin and
I eventually found him. Pretty tough to act grown up and not start screaming
at him ... so I just gritted my teeth and said "Give me some water ... now." 
Between the altitude and becoming a bit dehydrated (conserving water in case 
I had to go back without Scott) my nose was bleeding pretty good and I 
apparently a reasonable amount had found it's way onto my t-shirt ... 
considering my appearance and tone, Scott wasn't to argue. We did a pretty
rapid decent and planned to do a day hike into Paradise Valley ... but 
15 minutes after we got off the mountain (about 8:30pm) a terrific thunder&
lighting storm started up ... boy was I glad I overrode Scott and decided not 
to stay at the camp site at 8000ft. We saw quite a few people on the way up
nowhere near any reasonable place to pitch a tent ... the veritable UNhappy
campers I'm sure. 
Given the change of weather we decided to come back to Berkeley. We stopped
off at Cedar Grove gift shop so Scott could buy a Gatoraid and I could get
a trail patch for my backpack (a pretty dinky one for the CC trail, considering
the effort!) ... I got a couple of stares from the turists ... mussed hair, 
blood on shirt etc ... not quite as bad as when I got on the Yosemite Valley
bus after falling into some rapids and getting cut up in 60+ places ...

Although the CC trail wasn't the prettiest I've been on, it certainly was
one of the more satisfying ... a real workout and challenge so a pretty
satisfying sense of accomplishment during and after. 

If anyone wants info on ascent/descent times, where to camp, trail capacities
etc, send me mail. I wont bore the rest of you. If you dont get one in advace,
there is a large area plastic topo map avail for $5.60 from the rangers who 
issue you your wilderness pass. These are really to get an idea about the 
trails ... not so good for local area orienteering. I dont think they have an 
15 or 7.5 min maps of more localized areas.


Here is the net.advice. Thanks again to the sages ...
								--psb

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From tu@sumex-aim.stanford.edu Sun Jul  5 14:49:08 1992

In article <133nmgINNecs@agate.berkeley.edu> you wrote:
> two-day hike in 
> Kings Canyon, probably starting from Cedar Grove. We're planning
> to get on the trail Friday morn, and start driving back to Berkeley
> early afternoon on Sunday.

From Cedar Grove, you can't get very far in two days. A classic trip
from weekend. A nice 2-day trip is to go up to Paradise Valley and
back. Lots of bear activities in Paradise Valley (lost food to a
clever bear there once) In my opinion, Paradise Valley is a better
destination than those along Bubbs Creek.

An alternatie is to go up to Kennedy Pass and wander in the basin
above the area. However, you are talking about lots of uphill walk.

Have you considered the idea of starting your trip from Mineral King
area in Sequoie NP? The trouble with Cedar Grove is that its elevation
is fairly low (~5000 feet above sea level). You have to work hard to
get the the high country.  As I get lazier, I tend to start from
trailheads that are already high, like South Lake (near Sabrina),
Mammoth Lake, or Toulemne Meadows. Because the Sierras slopes from
west to east, then drops abruptly, trailheads on the east side of the
Sierras allow you to get to high country fast.

There are several high country loop possibilities in the Mineral King
area. Look at a topo map. Browse in your local bookstore (e.g.,
Wilderness Press's Southern Sierra guidebook.) I don't have my map or
guidebook on hand.

Samson

I usually carry quart of drinking water at the beginning of each day's
hike.  Some people drinks more. It also depends on high much uphill
work you have to do.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From makesys!makesys.COM!sheldon@uu.psi.com Sun Jul  5 17:15:34 1992


The difficulty with short loop trips from Cedar Grove is the depth of
Kings Canyon. To get very far north of Cedar Grove one must typically
climb 4000 to 5000 feet! I've climbed up the Copper Creek trail to
Granite Lake, and it's a long, hard climb.

Lake Sabrina is pretty, but often crowded. I'd recommend driving to Big Pine
and driving up to roadend at Glacier Lodge. You can camp there, or camp higher
up by one of the lakes. Then you could climb up tp Palisade Glacier, or just
cruise up the valley. Jaw-dropping scenery!

When Tioga pass is open, it's not much harder to drive to Big Pine than to
Cedar Grove; King's Canyon is a surprisingly long drive from the Bay Area.

-sheldon white-

sheldon@makesys.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From ayers@adobe.com Sat Jul  4 13:52:44 1992


"Cedar Grove" (really the end of the road in Kings Cyn) is one of the
lowest trailheads in the Sierra.  The parking lot is at 5000 feet.

Trips that "get somewhere" have large altitude gains.  I once did
forty miles and 13,000 feet of altitude change (13000 gain and 13000
loss) on a two-day weekend.

"Lake of the Moon" and vicinity are an interesting place to visit, and
can be reached on a two day trip, although three would be better.  
They will not be crowded.  It's about 6000' gain out of the canyon
on the Copper Creek trail.

Lake Sabrina is a trailhead far away from Cedar Grove.  Have you
looked at a map?

Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From whitney@isi.edu Mon Jul  6 10:33:04 1992

Lake of the Fallen Moon involves 5000 ft elevation gain from Cedar
Grove and crossing Granite Pass; LAke Sabrina access is from Bishop, 
on the E side of the Sierra.   Usual loop from Cedar Grove is over
Glen Pass, 30 or 40 miles, not casual.  High country is a good ways
from Cedar Grove, situated as it is in the bottom of what is at one
point the deepest canyon (check out the relief at Yucca Point on your
way in) in North America.  You want high country?  Go to Yosemite
(Tuolumne meadows) or approach the Kings Canyon Sierra from the east
side.  BUT Kings Canyon is a beautiful place to hike, just go up
canyon a ways and enjoy the river and rock formations...I doubt you'll
be disappointed.  Permits are required, so get to the end of the road
the night before and queue up at dawn or before for your best choice.
Go up to Paradise valley, or else up Bubbs Creek, the major tributary
of the S Fork of the Kings.

Cheers,
Richard

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From bobw@hpsadwc.sad.hp.com Mon Jul  6 11:44:36 1992

Hi Partha,

Saw your posting on rec.backcountry.

>Hi, I'm interested in some recommendations for a two-day hike in 
>Kings Canyon, probably starting from Cedar Grove. We're planning
>

My SO and I just returned from a trip there 3 weeks ago.  We followed a
trail from the book _Sierra South_ and were very pleased.  We left from
the Florence Lake trailhead and walked up 9 moderate miles to a small
lake called "Lost Lake".  It is a small, very beautiful lake.  There was
great fishing (even for an rank amateur like me) and a great climb around
and up the cliff on the far side of the lake to a great view in all
directions.  We hiked only in the afternoons and did this trip in 4 days,
including one layover day.  We both feel that with a earlier start, it
could be done in 3 days and still have the layover day.

Good luck finding a trip.

-Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From tran@sun-valley.stanford.edu Mon Jul  6 12:46:26 1992

|> any interesting destinations which someone could recommend ... I'd rather 
|> not just walk n/2 miles to some arbitrary point on the trail and then 
|> turn around and walk right back. I would very much prefer getting out of 
|> the valley/canyon/forest into the "high country". 

Hard to do in just one day from Cedar Grove, unless you're into serious self-
punishment.  Granite Lake & Granite Lake Basin, up around 8-10 K ft is a doable
weekender (though pretty brutal).  Another possibility is the Sphynx creek
loop.  Up Bubbs Creek to Sphynx Creek (brutal climb); up Sphynx Creek trail
to the Sphynx; back down along Roaring River trail.  But I don't think that's
a two day loop.

|> around Lake Sabrina, north of Kings Canyon. Comments about that place
|> (probably for a late summer trip)?

Lake Sabrina:  Fine area.  A bit of a long drive to get there.  It's out of 
Bishop; near the trailhead of Bishop Pass.

|> Advice on day/night temps, how much water per person, where to camp and

Day temps at 9 Kft: In the 70's.  Night temps: 40's.  Water per person:
Lots.  Where to camp: Talk to the ranger when you get your permit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From glen@cayman.com Tue Jul  7 06:40:28 1992


I just returned from Sequoia park.  Beautiful.

The park service has several loops in both parks, great hikes and well
marked.  You might want to try to get a map of the trails.  They had a
fantastic one for sequoia, which included a description of the trails.

If you are planning to hike and camp, remember that you need to get an
overnight permit before heading in.  Also, there are a zillion
warnings about bears, so be aware.

Have fun.

glen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jreece@sousa.intel.com Wed Jul  8 09:18:43 1992

In article <133nmgINNecs@agate.berkeley.edu>, you write:

> I'd really prefer a loop, but dont know if there are any interesting
> ones managable in two days. 

The shortest one is to Rae Lakes, but it's a 4-5 day trip.
Another big, but great one is over the Monarch Divide
to Simpson Meadow on the Middle Fork of the Kings River, thence to the Muir 
trail at Palisade lakes, then down the Muir Trial to the South Fork of the 
Kings River, then back to Cedar Grove. A mere 95 miles.

> Barring that, I was wondering if there were
> any interesting destinations which someone could recommend ... I'd rather 
> not just walk n/2 miles to some arbitrary point on the trail and then 
> turn around and walk right back. I would very much prefer getting out of 
> the valley/canyon/forest into the "high country". 

Getting to a high country lake from Cedar Grove means a 5000' elevation
gain the first day.   Cedar Grove to Granite Lake is a common choice
for really ambitious weekenders.  It's the first stop on the big loop I
mentioned.  Once you're up there, it's pretty easy to get to the
State Lakes or Volcanic Lakes.  Not too heavily visited because
of the first-day elevation gain and not being on the Muir Highway.

I've been to Tehipite Valley from Wishon Reservoir in a weekend.
Tehipite is the Sierra's 4th major glaciated valley after Yosemite,
Hetch Hetchy, and Kings Canyon, but no one goes there because the
nearest practical trailhead is 16 miles away.  It's also not
really high country.

If you want to do some deer- and bear-watching, Paradise Valley is a nice, 
heavily wooded destination from Cedar Grove.  

John Reece			
Not necessarily an Intel spokesman

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\
|* Partha S. Banerjee				   Sic volo, Sic jubeo;	     *|
|* <psb@Berkeley.EDU> || <{spine}!ucbvax!psb>	   Stat pro ratione voluntas *|
\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry