HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (VI)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:28:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.155922.16968@mont.cs.missouri.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:

>"Achievements in health care have also been great...

Except of course for the people tortured and killed by the Sandinista
army and Security Police. But then I'm sure Harel will assure us that
they deserved it. Got to break a few eggs to make a good omlet.

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------223 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.activism.progressive,talk.environment,alt.save.the.earth
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:14:19 GMT
Organization: Quake Public Access

In article <BuGC8H.8vE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cburian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher J Burian) writes:
>adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:

>>		AMENDMENT II:
>>	A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free
>>State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
>>infringed.

>>		REALITY II:
>>	This right exists.

>The simple statement "This right exists" ignores the extreme anti-gun
>sentiment observed in modern legislatures.  California and New Jersey have
>blatantly violated this amendment; George Bush has used (abused) his    
>authority to restrict importation of firearms; the BATF routinely violates
>the search and seizure clause (and after they ransack a home, they leave the
>front door standing open); it is very difficult to own an automatic rifle,
>even though they must be registered and *not even one* registered machine
>gun has ever been used to commit a violent crime.  

You are confusing the having of a right and it's being respected.

I have a right to speak even if the government silences me.
I have a right to defend myself even if the government leaves me defenseless.
I have a right to own property even if the government takes it from me.
I have a right to live even if the government kills me.
Ihave a right to petition the government een if the government ignores me.
I have a right to make contracts even if the government refuses to recognize them.
I have a right to associate with whomever I choose, even if the government 
seeks to divide me from my chosen companions.

That's what it means for a right to be "inalienable".  Even by ignoring or
violating a right, the government cannot make it vanish.

--Brian
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Rich Richer, Poor Poorer
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:50:48 GMT

hiramc@sco.COM (Hiram Clawson) writes:

>It is said that the rich grow richer, and the poor become poorer.

Naturally. For numerous reasons too.

>How true that was during the capitalist orgy of the 1980's.

(Now, this isn't a biased posting now, is it? Nah....)

So, the "poor" making money is 'okay', but the "rich" making money is
engaging in a 'capitalist orgy'?

Can you say "double standard"? Good, I knew you could.


[flamebait deleted]


MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: disparity between rich and poor widening
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:19:59 GMT

9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (Wild Child) writes:

>I think it's about time some of the 'poor' stopped wallowing in their own self
>pity, get of their ar**s and get a decent education instead of being satisfied
>with shovelling dirt for a living. It's also about time intellectual property
>laws were abolished.

#define dripping.sarcasm.mode

Why should they? After all, they've got the Government, and "taxing the rich"
to take care of them. After all, its not THEIR fault they were borne into
poverty!

#undef dripping.sarcasm.mode

Remember the saying:

If you're going to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on having the
support of Paul.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.environment,alt.save.the.earth
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:51:56 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep1.040915.12372@panix.com> eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:
>In <92244.145348U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>, U19807@uicvm.uic.edu sez:
>>In article <1992Aug30.224700.15365@oracle.us.oracle.com>,
>mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) says:

>>>In article <92243.163225SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>>>>Bush makes invalid claim about Clinton raising taxes 128 times...
>>>>Clinton responds that by same criteria, Bush did it 327 times...
>>>>Third party says real score is Clinton 59, Bush 78...

>>>>Now here's the clincher.  The way I see it, Clinton was not lying because
>>>>he had already stated the criteria was bogus and was merely showing that
>>>>if you apply the same Bu1!$h|+ to Bush, he's even worse...

>>>Excuse me, but don't you think 327 vs. 78 is significant?  I just love
>>>the way the Clinton weenies bend over backwards to pretend that their
>>>idol always tells the truth.

>>Pardon me,sir,but it seems to me that you've failed to read the above post,
>>as it clearly states that "by (the) same criteria", the Clinton score is
>>lower than the Bush score as far as raising taxes is concerned. the original
>>"327" number doesn't even enter into it.

>I second the motion that Friedman take some remedial reading lessons.
>This gaffe on his part is especially pointed, considering his remarks
>(to me) in article <1992Aug29.230744.19538@oracle.us.oracle.com>:

>           > Mark, read the damned post before you reply.  

Well, Mark, I'll say it again.  Read the damned post before you reply.

According to the criteria Bush used on Clinton, the real score is 59
to 78.  Moreover, Bush's score of 78 includes Reagan as well.  When
Clinton says 327 he is lying.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Lotus as a public charity
Keywords: zoning,public.policy,taxes,subsidy
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:46:36 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <Bu8nJD.Avt@world.std.com> geer@world.std.com (Dan Geer) writes:

>Lotus is engaged in the the modern kind of
>corporate blackmail - "Give us a huge whopping tax break or we'll move
>out of town".

It seems to me that your association and Lotus are both doing pretty
much the same thing:  using the law to take from others whatever they
can get away with, without letting ethics get in the way.

Lotus is well-known for using its financial resources to try to crush
the competition in the court system.  And your association appears to
want to use zoning and taxation to get its own way.

Two of a kind.

Why don't you let Lotus do on its property whatever it wants to and you
do on yours whatever you want to?  And it would be nice if Lotus did
the same.
-- 
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@cirrus.com>
also: dhesi@rahul.net
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty L
Date: 5 Sep 1992 08:47:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Could anyone here who thinks LaROuche is fascist explain how that
evaluation is consistent with his long-standing opposition to the
death penalty? Seems a little odd for a "fascist", to say the least.
-Steve
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: CALL PETE WILSON to sign GAY RIGHTS BILLS AB2601 and AB3825
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:53:47 GMT


With regard to the California Civil Rights Bills
AB-2601 and AB-3825.  Pete Wilson's office
is not taking names, so anyone can call and urge
him to sign these two bills.  The last time
the Orange County legions swamped his office
with negative calls.  Everyone reading this
should call to urge him to sign.

The numbers again:  San Francisco (415) 703-2218
                    Sacramento (916) 445-2841
                    Los Angeles (213) 897-0322

With the doings in Oregon, we must do everything
possible to protect our civil rights.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE
Fundraising Committee for the Procurement of a mesh tank-top for LL Cool J
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,alt.pagan
From: cburian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher J Burian)
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:19:29 GMT

adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:
>>
>>No, uh uh.  Give me the absolute guarantees in the Bill of Rights 
>>without exceptive clauses anytime, ......                                 

>	Really?
>                [........]
> 
>		AMENDMENT II:
>	A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free
>State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
>infringed.

>		REALITY II:
>	This right exists.

The simple statement "This right exists" ignores the extreme anti-gun
sentiment observed in modern legislatures.  California and New Jersey have
blatantly violated this amendment; George Bush has used (abused) his    
authority to restrict importation of firearms; the BATF routinely violates
the search and seizure clause (and after they ransack a home, they leave the
front door standing open); it is very difficult to own an automatic rifle,
even though they must be registered and *not even one* registered machine
gun has ever been used to commit a violent crime.  The WoG has been just
as detrimental to freedom as the WoD.  It's alarming that the left wing
has seized the opportunity to gang up with "conservatives" to get tough
on drugs by getting tough on guns.  

>	Absolute guarantees and protection of rights, you said?

>	Where?

Except for a slight oversight, yours was a very good post.  This "war" is
a war against freedom, a war against citizens.  I am actually worried about
what's going on in the US.  The left-wing and the right-wing have joined
forces in an attack on the individual.  I, too, wait for some replies to
the question of the best country in which to live free.  I am pessimistic
that there is anyplace better than the "good ol' USA."  People have taken
there rights and freedoms for granted here.  They are so used to having
their own way that they don't think twice about trying to force their
concepts of right and wrong on everyone else.  "If I can do what ever I 
want, I can compel you to adopt MY moral code."

--
Chris Burian              |   "No freeman shall ever be debarred
cburian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |   the use of arms."  -Thomas Jefferson
>Libertarian on the dole  |     
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (III)
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:42:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.183112.24068@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <9209070844.AA20277@tba.msi.cornell.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:
>
>>"Nicaragua was honored by UNESCO for its National Literacy Campaign,...
>
>More 'ends jsutifies the means'? So it's OK to torture somebody as long
>as they can read.
>
>
America's Watch also says "There is not a policy of torture, political
murder, or disappearnaces in Nicaragua."  You keep citing isolated
incidences and expanding them to permanent policies. There was a period
of a year or two when the Sandinista human rights record was bad.  It 
happened right after the CIA took control of the ragtag contras and
organized them.  Your unwilligness to admit a good action such as the
literacy campaign sounds like the same type of activity that you
continually accuse Harel of.

>  Allen
>-- 

>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
>|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
>+----------------------228 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Part I, Doctors Secretly Inject Cancer Cells Into Patients
Date: 8 Sep 1992 23:59:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Is it the doctor, the broadcaster, or the transcriber who can't tell
a graph from a graft?
 -Stewart Rowe usr2210a@tso.uc.edu  srowe@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: In GATT They Trust (II)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:11:37 GMT

harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:
>
>Enter GATT, the General Agreement of Tariffs and Trade.  This complex 
>and seemingly obscure set of trade negotiations has been seized by the 
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bush administration to put real economic teeth into its New World Order.

Sure, if inland county and small town American newspapers are all that
you read ... it's been around since the end of WW II, I remember reading
about it in the old Winnipeg Tribune and the Winnipeg Free Press back in
Manitoba, Canada (okay, I was a weird kid ... I read the newspaper 'cos
I finished my homework very quickly (-;).

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.society.revolution,misc.activism.progressive
From: qb7g6@fel.tno.nl (Maarten Landzaat)
Subject: Re: Fuck You All
Organization: TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:55:50 GMT

mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mike J. Brown) writes:
 (stuff deleted)
>  What can we do / I do to affect society in a positive way,
>especially when confronted with situations like when friends or co-workers
>make a racist or homophobic joke?  I feel like ignoring ignorance is wrong,
>so a couple times (but only with close friends) I have made a show of my
>offense at their behavior, explaining everything some time afterward.  But
>what should people do, in general?  What should the people who are neither
>the victims nor the perpetrators of the isms do?

A very interesting question indeed. Here's what I generally do:

First, I try not to laugh at racist jokes. This isn't always easy, but it gets
easier with time since jokes are often regurgitated (sp?). I hope this
reaction creates the feeling that racist jokes are NOT generally accepted.

Second, when I really feel the need to change the offender's attitude,
I make false generalizations, which are quite obvious for the offender to
recognize. 

I don't know whether this is "good" behaviour, but some advantages I see are:
1) You don't directly blame the offender. Arguing usually just polarizes
   the viewpoints of each person instead of bringing them together.
2) It leaves the thinking up to the offender. Which is good, cause he
   can change his attitude only by himself.

I'd like to see other views on this topic.

Bye,
-- 
Maarten J. Landzaat (analyst/programmer, bass player, Atari/midi freak)
BSO/Aerospace & Systems			Mail: Spuistraat 97
Email: maarten.landzaat@fel.tno.nl	      1012 SV  Amsterdam
Phone: +31 20 6266098			      The Netherlands
Xref: sparky alt.activism:16005 talk.politics.misc:44074 soc.culture.latin-america:3355
From: drm@esl.com (Don McGregor )
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (II)
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:30:19 GMT
Reply-To: drm@esl.com
Followup-To: alt.activism

In article <1992Sep7.170435.29032@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean  
Alaska) writes:
> 
> ACtually, the Sandinista's themselves were widely supported because they
> were the ones who won the war.  

There are Sandinistas and there are "Sandinistas."

During the revolution the Sandinista movement has widespread participation  
from all sectors of the population, inlcuding the middle classes and  
smaller business enterprises.  After the revolution the Sandinista party  
lurched Left and purged itself of more moderate elements.  The Sandinista  
movement of 1978 and the Sandinista movement of circa 1984 were very  
different creatures.

--
Don McGregor
drm@esl.com  
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: emamid@athena.ecs.csus.edu (David Emami)
Subject: Re: Lotus as a public charity
Summary: Go, Lotus, Go!
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:34:26 GMT

In article <65442@cup.portal.com> atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman) writes:
>>The occasion is that Lotus is engaged in the the modern kind of
>>corporate blackmail - "Give us a huge whopping tax break or we'll move
>>out of town".

It's not blackmail on Lotus' part. It's extortion on the part of the state.
Consider: if you owned a business in a neighborhood that had gotten dangerous,
and that business was being repeatedly held up, wouldn't you consider moving
to a safer area? That the criminals are elected officials instead of guys
wearing ski masks and toting guns is only a matter of appearances.

>
>Go for it, Lotus!!!  I hope they move out of town--in fact I hope they
>move out of Taxachusetts altogether--and teach the [expletive deleted]
>looters a lesson.
>
>Now that's ACTIVISM!   :-)

Damn straight! Nice to see SOMEBODY standing up for their property rights.
I hereby nominate them for the John Galt Award for Unabashed Selfishness.

Oops! I suppose I'm going to get flamed by Comrade Party Chairman from
misc.politics.oppressive because of this. I guess I'm just a running dog
lackey of the fascist American warmongering imperialist exploiters.

---------------------------------------------------------
"There's nothing wrong with capitalism.
 There's nothing wrong with free enterprise.
 Don't try to make me feel guilty;
 I'm so tired of hearing you cry."
                      -- "Capitalism", Oingo-boingo
Xref: sparky alt.activism:16205 alt.individualism:5396 alt.pagan:9187
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:51:50 GMT

In article <1wwn3dg.adamsr@netcom.com> adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:
>
>	One problem which had been an obstacle for both the anti WoD and the
>anti WoG groups has been the adament position taken by the majority of the
>pro-gun groups that the WoD is fair, that those who have nothing to hide
>should not care about being searched, etc. 

This is a major inconsistency in the pro-gun/WoD camp.  "If you are
innocent, then what are you so afraid of?" they ask.

Well, okay, if you're innocent, then why are you so afraid of background
checks and waiting periods?

This is a < P ^ ~P > situation.  Ever study number theory, people?  

>This was typical of the messages
>I received, many of which argued that it was "disgusting the way left-wingers
>stood up for they drug-dealers and other scum while opposing decent
>Americans." Others simply took the position that people who oppose the WoD
>HAVE no rights. Only ONE person who responded (out of more than 12) felt
>that any right other than the right to bear arms was under attack!

Oh, Christ.  

>	Clearly this is a problem. The pro-gun advocates feel they are
>fighting a losing battle to protect their rights against government
>encrochment, while simultaneously alienating those who feel that other
>rights are being lost through their support for the very laws which remove
>those rights. Why should _anyone_ support the goals of people who oppose
>their own  (and, yes, I know that it works both ways - many of us who are to
>the left of center DO favor gun control - although few do so to the extent
>that most pro-gun advocates favor limitations on other rights such as
>abortion or free speech).

What shall we call this, then?  < Q ^ ~Q >?  While I understand how some
people want a gun (I have shot 227/300 myself and low 40's with my bow,
so I am not emoitionally averse to them), I really don't think the
Founding Fathers knew about assault weapons when they wrote the thing.
Besidesw, why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that the right to keep
and bear arms is there for the purpose of CIVILIAN MILITIA?  Does this
then mean that you can keep a gun if you are PART of a civil militia?
Why is it that we talk so much about the "right to keep and bear arms,"
and no one ever talks about the citizens' responsibility to use them as
part of a civilian militia?  We ignore the whole first part of the
amendment.  

Regards,
Janis C. 
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.peace.corps,alt.peace-corps
From: dld@cs.monash.edu.au (David L Dowe)
Subject: Re: Peace Research Centre, Australian National University
Keywords: Australia, Australian National University, ANU, Peace Research Centre,PRC
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:51:01 GMT

dld@cs.monash.edu.au (Seeking ANU) writes:

>   Hello.  I am looking for the e-mail address of the Peace Research Centre
>(PRC) at the Australian National University (ANU).  In particular, I am looking
>for the e-mail address of one of the PRC's staff, Ms W R Lambourne.

>Any help greatly appreciated.

>Thank you.

>Regards,  David D.
 {whoever} @coombs.anu.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america