HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gotribe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.g.barry)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:21:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.224639.26163@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> In article <1993Jan7.221131.17994@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
> >"..news that Tiger fans have been *waiting* to hear".  Yeah right.  
> >Five years, thirty-six million.
> 
> Honest???  You mean, he's getting (marginally) *more* than Barry
> Bonds?
> 
> Bonds...
> 1) is younger, by about two years and thirty pounds.
> 2) is a Real Baserunner.
> 3) plays outstanding defense.
> 4) has been a better slugger each of the last two years (fewer HR,
>    but more 1B, 2B, and 3B)
> 5) Runs a *very* good batting average.
> 6) Walks 100 times a year.
> 7) Has played on a winning team.
> 
> >My god, he's barely above average
> >*right now*, can you imagine what he'll be like five years from now?
> 
> >Cecil Fielder is worth?", the fans started getting mad about it, so I
> >guess the Tigers felt they had to sign him.
> 
> Huh!  Fielder is the luckiest guy in the world.
> 
> -Valentine

You guys get so bogged down in your stats and comparisons, that you
forget what the Detroit owner really wants to do - get people to
the park and make money.  Fielder is as big (no pun intended) in
Detroit as other superstars are in other towns.  When the town loses
the superstars, they tend not to support the team until they either
get a new superstar or start winning.  In Chicago, the guys on
the radio are already advocating not going to Bears pre-season games
next year because McCaskey fired Ditka (Chicagos' newest superstar
hero).  Detroit needs Fielder and $$$ shouldn't be an issue.

Rich Barry
barry@ihlpe.att.com
From: barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Need boxscore 9/2/73
Summary: Tattersol HR log
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:54:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: barrym@infmx

Do you have a boxscore of the Braves-Giants game of September 2, 1973?

The Tattersol Home Run log includes information about every major
league home run.  For the 150,000 home runs hit in the 20th century,
the log is missing only a single piece of information--the precise
inning in which Dave Johnson homered off Juan Marichal in the first
game of a double header on 9/2/73.  The local papers offer no clue.

Perhaps someone was there and kept a boxscore.  If so, please contact
me at 415 926-6674.  Thanks for contributing to baseball research.

Barry
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Astros Contenders?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:33:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1993Jan6.181742.14453@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, stesmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Smith) writes:
> 
> Now that the Oilers' season is painfully over, and the Rockets
> have leveled off to .500, Houston sports fans must be turning
> hopefully to the Astros. Anyone out there have some predictions
> regarding the fate of the 'Stros in 1993? The more outlandish
> the better.
> 

How about third place max, probably fourth.  It's not outlandish, but that's
probably the way it will be.  They might be the most improved team in
baseball since the season ended, but they are playing in the toughest division 
in baseball where virtually ALL of the teams have improved somewhat.
An Astros fourth place finish may be close to a second place finish in the
NL East.

Note:  Everyone on the line seems to think that the Expos have their division
locked, but if not them, then who?  I've heard kudos for the Cards, but I'm
not convinced.

Another note:  Some guy named Terry Moore, who says he was drafted by the Mets,
in '80, was a contestant on American Gladiators.  Be all that you can be.

                                             P. Tierney

> Joaquin Andujar)
From: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dodgers sign Parrish and Ritchie
Date: 11 Jan 1993 13:48:23 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu


In article <kbanaian.151.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu>, kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:
|> Don't you think the Dodgers are trying to win it all this year?  Given that 
|> Eric Young yields to Jody Reed and Dave Hansen yields to Tim Wallach, doesn'
|> t this make you think there is a pattern here?  Besides which, I see him as 
|> replacing Carlos Hernandez, not Piazza.  It is probably the most justifiable 
|> of the three moves.
|> 
|> The Dodgers need to go to the dictionary and look up the word "rebuild" ...
|> 

The thing is, the Dodgers need to be hit over the head before they
realize that they should be using a rookie.  Witness last year's
first base "battle."  They had Kal Daniels and Todd Benzinger, of
all people, in there battling with Eric Karros.  Now Karros isn't the
best first baseman in the league, but neither of those other two should
have been close to a starting job with a promising rookie around.

Thus, the Dodgers easily lost patience with Young and Hansen and are seeking
Parrish as a backup.  It's a miracle that they're staying with Offerman,
and thank goodness they are.

Daniel
daniel@caldera.usc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: king@ssvax.gte.com (Larry King)
Subject: Re: Jeff Russell????
Organization: GTE/SCSD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:04:21 GMT

Michael Silverman (cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu) wrote:
: Any news on where he is going to end up?
: 
: I can't believe nobody would want a proven relief pitcher capable
: of 35+ saves and a 1.x ERA.....Boston???
: 
: 
: --
: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu
: 
: "One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee

Russell was suppose to be coming to Boston this week for a physical
evaluation.  The Red Sox are definitely interested in him.  If not him
it will be Bullpen by Committee next year and that could be really
interesting for this team.

--
Larry King
GTE Government Systems, Needham, MA    		(617) 455-3384 
E-Mail : king@ssvax.gte.com
From: jerry@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald Lanza)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cal Abrams afloat
Keywords: Dodgers
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:42:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company (Shelton, CT)

In article <4JAN199311402779@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
|I have just returned from a 7-day cruise on the M.S. Seaward (which is part
|of the Norwegian Cruise Line) and had a very pleasant surprise:  
|
|Cal Abrams was on board as part of their "Sports Afloat" program.  (For 
|younger fans who don't read baseball history, he was an outfielder for the 
|Brooklyn Dodgers from 1949 to 1952; although never a regular all season, 
|he was part of some exciting pennant races in those years.  He later played
|for other teams.) 
|
	Did you ask Cal Abrams about his part in the final game of the 1950
season when he was thrown out at the plate on a base hit in the ninth inning 
attempting to score the winning run ? The Dodgers lost in extra innings on 
Dick Sisler's homerun giving the Whiz Kids the pennant by a one game margin.

	Old Dodger fans whince when his name is brought up. Does anyone have
further background on this infamous incident in Brooklyn Dodger history and/or
corrections to my rememberance of this incident ?


					jerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: smm0264@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Specualtion Of A Coming Orioles Sale
Reply-To: smm0264@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:08:11 GMT

There have been some rumors flying around Baltimore of a possible sale of the
Orioles.  The current owner(Eli Jacobs) is reportedly asking in the 
neighborhood of $150 million for the team(he bought it for $75 million 6 yearsago.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean M Morrison                      The most exciting phrase to hear in
                                     science, the one that heralds the most
                                     discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I have
                                     found it!) but "That's funny..."
smm0264@ritvax.isc.rit.edu              -Isaac Asimov
smm0264@ultb.isc.rit.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Burks and related mediocies
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:03:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) says:

>
>Well, maybe they'll do something *really* intelligent, like putting
>Burks in *center*, and leaving Newson in right.  Nahh.  No chance of
>that.  After all, Lance Johnson is a valuable player because he stole 41
>bases, right?
>
>And speaking of ChiSox silliness, I keep reading rumors about them
>seriously planning on using Bo Jackson.  Do they *really* think a guy
>who hasn't played in two years, who wasn't that good when he did play,
>is going to come back?

  The report in Baseball Weekly was that Bo has to pass a running test in the
middle of January.  His doctors clain he'll run like Frank Thomas (whatever
that means).  If he can play, I don't know what the Sox will do.  The Weekly
also reported he'll likely play right field.   That would pretty much leave
Newson on the bench -- right next to Burks or Johnson, while Bell and Jackson
are in the lineup chewing up outs.
 
>
>I guess I'd rather gamble on him than on the idea of Tim Wallach
>suddenly having a good year, but that's not saying much.

  BUT, I'd rather gamble on Tim Wallach than on the idea that the Red Sox 
suddenly having a good year, but . . .


SfH
-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                ** "If people don't want to come to the 
Case Western Reserve University  **     ballpark, how are you gonna stop them? 
Department of Physics            **  
Cleveland, OH 44106              **                         -- Yogi
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:59:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.000124.23655@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.233544.24378@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
>>> leagues put together.  
>>
>>at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>color sox.
>
>But here is the problem; they got rid of their *talented* outfielders while
>acquiring/keeping not-so-talented ones.  Of the ones they acquired in the
>off-season, only Calderon is a good one, IMO, and they got rid of their two
>most talent ones (Plantier and Burks) while getting very little for them.
>(Jose Melendez is a good pitcher, but there is only so much a middle reliever
>can do; the Red Sox got nothing for Burks.)

oh i agree, Nelson. my comment was intended slightly tongue-in-cheek.
no-one disagrees more with their moves than i. particularly giving away
McGwire for Dawson and $1.5M a year. i don't like the red sox, but i live
in the area and i would have paid just to see McGwire put balls through
the green monster or onto the turnpike.

remember that burks was injured. that doesn't justify the other bonehead
moves, but signing burks is still risky. of course they probably could
have made some arrangement to have him report to spring training and
at least give him a chance.
--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: The Minnesota Twins
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Distribution: na
Date: 12 Jan 93 10:09:42 CST


In article <1993Jan9.004332.22844@news.stolaf.edu>, eblom@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Kate E Eblom) writes:
> Watch for Bert become the first pitcher to win his 300th game
> while leading the league in homeruns allowed.  Hope the 
> BBB team has their pencils ready...

Blyleven leads active pitchers in career homeruns allowed.
Winfield leads active players in career homeruns hit.

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:01:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit

In article <C0Gww7.98F@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>  Well I'm kind of bored now and not a whole lot has gone on in the winter
>lately so I'll post something no one will agree with completely: Here are
>several lists that anyone can make comments on. The players are evaluated on
>how good I think the player is (as in how he'd play in 1993):
>
>Best Players Overall:
>2B: Ryne Sandberg

Alomar was about even with Sandberg in 1992, maybe just slightly behind.
(Sandberg creamed Alomar in SLG, but Alomar was ahead in OBP, plus he's
faster and better defensively).  So for 1993, I think I'd go with
Alomar.

>C:  Mickey Tettleton (until Daulton can do it back to back)

It's hard to beleive that Tettleton is really the best catcher in the
majors, but I can't think of anyone who is better.

>Best Players For Expansion Club To Have (under 25 years old or 25):
>3B: Dean Palmer or maybe Jeffries (still only 25)
>SS: Wil Cordero (Fryman's a good choice also) 
>OF: Phil Plantier

I'd take two out of Fryman, Sheffield and Cordero - Fryman can play
short or third.  All of those three have superstar potential, whereas I
don't think Jefferies and Palmer do.

I'd be reluctant to put Plantier on that list, although I can't think of
anyone off the top of my head who would be better.  Maybe that Nieves
guy from Atlanta?  I think he's only 19.

>No Names With Eventual Star Potential (AL only)  
>SP: Sam Millitello and just about any other Yank pitching prospect  

Can you imagine the Yankees pitching staff in four or five years from
now?  Hitchcock, Abbott, Millitello, Wickman, Taylor.  The '97 Yankees
pitching could be as good as the '93 Braves.  Come to think of it, the
'97 Braves pitching could be as good as the '93 Braves: Of Glavine,
Maddux, Smoltz and Avery, Glavine is the oldest at 26.

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: dba30@ccc.amdahl.com (David Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:31:33 GMT
Reply-To: dba30@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (David Allison)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan5.003448.11145@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.233544.24378@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>
>>>there are several people i know, who were disgruntled
>>> red sox fans the past 2 years, who have abandoned the red
>>> sox ship with their recent signings/trades/actions.  however,
>>> i just heard an interesting thing...
>
>>>the red sox are supposedly interested in signing jerome walton.
>
>>>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
>>> leagues put together.  
>
>>at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
>>color sox.
>
>At least?
>
>I mean, sure, this gets rid of one of their outfielders.
>
>But not the right one.  
>
>What kind of idiot would look at Ellis Burks and Billy Hatcher and say
>Billy Hatcher is the guy he wants?  Oh, of course.  Lou Gorman.
>

It wasn't so much that they chose Hatcher over Burks.  I think the fact
that Burks wanted a GUARANTEED 3.something salary and was offered a
2.something with incentives, but turned the offer down had a lot to do
with it.  It makes me wonder about his back when he out right refused an
incentive based contract.  I wouldn't want to guarantee him over 3 mil.
either.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Alomar and Range Factor (was Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseball)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:52:49 GMT

In article <C0Js8v.IuI@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way
Of Life" Spira) writes:

<explanation deleted>
>In ZR, Mr. 2B looks better.  In DA, Alomar looks a lot better.  
>ZR credits players for the successes but not the failures outside the zone.
>And because the zone is too small, I believe that ends up favoring the
>reliable over the guy with great range in a silly way.

I agree with Greg's explanation, with the caveat that Stats has never been
very explicit about their zones and we guessing based on what they have
said about their zones and based on a comparison of opportunities for
players in ZR and DA that ZR zones are considerably smaller than DA areas.

There's also another problem with ZR's for infielders: double plays.  Stats
gives credits for two plays made with one opportunity for the player who
starts the double play.  While double play ability is certainly important,
lumping it in with the ZR doesn't tell you anything about the double play
ability of the player, it obscures the fielding ability of the player, and
it ignores the fact that the double play partner has a significant impact
on how many successful double plays a player initiates.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bprisco@shearson.com (Bobby Prisco)
Subject: Re: HOF
Reply-To: bprisco@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:06:28 GMT

In article 27555@ncar.ucar.edu, wildcat@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat) writes:
> 
> 	I heard the baseball Hall of Fame ballots are out.  The only eligible
> names are heard were Reggie Jackson, Steve Garvey and Bill Madlock.  Anyone
> know who is eligible and i wonder if Leo Duroucher(sp) will get in this time.
> 



or Phil Rizzutto
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:27:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.022812.3315@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.012305.18342@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>
>>i'm not going to start down the "the stats say he's worst but i know
>>he's great from seeing him" road again.. i'm just genuinely curious as
>>to how someone who appears to be a defensive gem can have the lowest
>>range factor. either he is doing it with mirrors, i am crazy, or that
>>statistic is bogus.  if anyone can clarify which of these three it is,
>>i would like to hear it.
>
>Possibly all of the above.

not all three. Alomar is not doing it with mirrors. :^)

>Range factor is most definitely bogus.  It
>can certainly mislead by a *lot*, and is probably only suited for
>comparing two halves of a platoon on the same team.  If that.  Some
>attempts have been made to adjust it for the pitching staff, but I
>don't know how successful they have been.
>
>DA seems to be a slightly better stat.  But until I get enough time
>to study the data, I'm not about to go whole-hog for it either.
>
>>also, what is the relationship between range factors and defensive averages?
>
>Wisecrack answer: none.  Seriously, for two stats that purport to
>measure similar the same concept, they don't agree very often.  I
>could come up with lots of BS reasons why, but nothing I can prove.

based on your comments, and the post by Clay where he explains
what the DA and RF are (thanks, btw), i would have to conclude that
these statistics definitely are bogus. i don't know why anyone would
use them to judge much of anything. i know i wouldn't.

maybe subjective judgment actually wins out here. or maybe someone
can come up with a new stat that actually makes some sense.

anyone who disagrees, please explain why they do make sense. because
it is clear that they ignore so many different important factors
that they are essentially useless. or maybe worse, if they fool people
into believing they are useful when they are not.

--
charles
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:37317 soc.women:22431 soc.men:22462
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: RE: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 10 Jan 93 00:17:02 GMT
Organization: Clark University

dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

>I know all of the people on here who are defending the right of female
>sports writers to go into male locker rooms, would not stoop to being
>hypocritical and saying a man should not be able to force his way into an
>area where women are nude. 
> 
>Or, would you? 

Oh PLEASE.  We've all heard this argument a zillion times before.  Go away
and read the essay "Sharing the Beat" in Roger Angell's book _Late Innings_,
which we finished discussing a long time ago, and then think about whether
you still have something constructive and intelligent to contribute to the
discussion.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: mkaverha@cs.ruu.nl (Micha Verhagen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: First Game Memories (Was: Re: Hey Giants fans!)
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:26:46 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

In <9JAN199313144386@pierre.mit.edu> kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:

In article <mzya3rs@Unify.Com>, .Unify.Com.wm@unify.uucp 
(William Morehouse writes...
> 
>The first baseball game I ever saw was in 1976 I believe,
>Giants against the Pirates in Candlestick when the 'Stick
>was still artificial turf.  Clark hit a game tying home run
>in the 10th.  He became an instant hero to this 9-year old.
>The game ended in the 12th with Gary Thommason (anybody
>remember him?) hitting a home run.  
> 
>With my first baseball game being so exciting, I was hooked for
>life.  Anybody else have a good story about their first ballgame?
> 

My first ballgame was Dodgers against the Cardinals in '83. Since I come from
Holland it was my first experience in such a big baseball stadium. The biggest
baseball stadium in Holland can hold approximately 6,000 people. Not to forget
that is was Dodger stadium, IMHO one of the most beautifull stadiums in the
U.S. The game was completely sold out. Valenzuela was pitching for the
Dodgers. By the eight inning the Dodgers were trailing by one run, and the
people already started to leave. In the bottom of the ninght, with two outs
someone (I really don't remember) doubled to right field. At that point
Lasorda called for a pinch hitter: Dusty Baker. With the count 2-2 he hit the
ball into the left field bleachers, all 50,000 remaining fans went crazy and I
got shivers on my back.

          
	            Micha Verhagen
		    mkaverha@cs.ruu.nl
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball