From: frey@alfheim.cavebbs.gen.nz (Bruce Clement)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.bbs.waffle
Subject: Re: Status Report: comp.bbs.waffle RFD
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:03:31 GMT
Organization: International Union of Disasters

Warning... I have edited down the original post. Hopefully I have not changed
the meaning

In article <1992Mar5.021822.26625@unlinfo.unl.edu> gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:
>stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>>gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:
>
>>>You never really polled alt.bbs's opinion on it.  
>
>>Since the RFD doesn't change alt.bbs, there was no reason to poll
>>alt.bbs. 

This move was extensively canvassed in alt.bbs.waffle. This is a proposal
to move alt.bbs.waffle into the mainstream. Although Waffle is packaged
and marketed as a bbs, it is IMHO a truely awful bbs, but it is quite
handy as an offline mail & news server.

I read a.b.w regularily, mostly to learn how to get the damned thing to
do what I would like it to do when used as a news reader/uucp communicator.

Other bbs systems have a primary use as bbses, and are really a different 
kind of product.

>>There is every reason not to include alt.bbs. Recent history has shown
>>that it is a Bad Thing to propose moving someone else's group. And the
>>discussion in alt.bbs about moving has been overwhelming in its absence.

I am not a regular reader of alt.bbs, I have no interest either way in 
their moving their group to the mainstream, for as long as the readers 
of alt.bbs wish to remain an alt. group, the rest of the world should
butt out and leave them to enjoy their news group as they wish.

The readers of alt.bbs.waffle wish to join the mainstream, along with
other major usenet reader software groups: news.software.nn,  
news.software.b, and the unix sysadmin groups (Which carry a 
large amount of news/mail related items).

>>>A sad fact, but not
>>>everyone reads news.groups.  You seem to feel if they didn't have the
>>>curiosity to check in on a.b.waffle's topics occasionally, your parent
>>>group should have no say in what your child group does regarding a
>>>move.

a.bbs has no control over a.bbs.waffle. It does not own it, and if there
is any group which does own a.bbs.waffle, it is alt.config. Presumably a.c
readers will feel a vested interest in this move and were consulted :-)


>Again, to me, the name is significant.  I'm not about to call an RFD for
>comp.bbs.  I am about to call an RFD for comp.bbs.MISC.  Calling it that
>will save headaches if the .waffle group passes, since calling it into
>RFD now, the passing of the .waffle group won't be known until after the
>alt.bbs move goes into CFV.  Plus, naming it with .misc will encourage
>the .waffle group's creation later if it fails.

please do. Please be aware that the move of a.b.w was widely canvassed
in a.b.w before an RFD was posted in news.groups. I realise that you 
are unable to read a.b.w for free, but I'm sure that finding someone
with access wouldn't be too difficult.

>Again, I can no longer comment on the opinions of alt.bbs as a whole,
>due to UNL deciding to drop alt.*

Although "unl.edu" has chosen to drop the alt.* heirachy, you are free
to do as I have done, and subscribe to a commercial news feed. You may 
not find one quite as cheaply as I have ($40 PA + email at cost), but
they must be available in your area. Being a "paying customer" gives one
a certain leverage with the management when the feeds on one's favourite
groups are threatened.

>>As far as the level of difficulty in writing the RFD:
...
>
>Again, it would be just a simple, or indeed simpler, to do the same with
>the addition of appending it to the current RFD.

except that the CFV would be for two groups, and risk being defeated because
of bad feelings towards the other group.

The proposers of a.b.w want a c.b.w, they are *not* proponents for a c.b.misc.

You appear to be a proponent of c.b.misc, and the responsibility for posting
the RFD &c for same lies with you and your fellow proponents of that group.

>::[On teasing non-Waffle users with alt.bbs.waffle.]
>
>>Where are all these people now? If they have such a burning need to
>>post that they would post to an incorrect group named comp.bbs.waffle,
>>then just how are they surviving now?
>
>They're having to do without.  Just like I must now.  Computer specific
>groups aren't the best areas to discuss the topics related to bulletin
>boards generally, such as the use of CLID devices on a BBS, or what to
>do with those annoying 9 year old users.

For those of us running waffle as home news readers, the topics of
burning import to real BBS operators are of little interest. In any case,
one would assume that Waffle operators who run BBSes will recognise that
they have a topic of interest to operators of other software and 
post accordingly.

Most of us are capable of reading more than one group, and remembering
which group a particular posting is appropriate in. For example, I would
normally refrain from posting articles appropriate to this group in
alt.folklore.urban or comp.lang.c. 

----

Bruce Clement    (frey@alfheim.cavebbs.gen.nz) 

Caution: Do not open this signature, no user servicable parts inside

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