HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "frank rosenbaum" <frank.rosenbaum@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: tunnel motors
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:08:52 EST
Reply-To: "frank rosenbaum" <frank.rosenbaum@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

EN/Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
  /amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
  /to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
  /cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
  /locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
  /and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.

John,  The designation of Tunnel Motor is for the Loco's not the crew. 
 A tunnel motor has air intakes near the walkway instead of the roof.  
This way the air for combustion and cooling is drawn from the cooler 
air near the tunnel floor instead of near the roof where the air is 
hotter.  In this modern day of airconditioning it shouldn't matter 
where the crew is.  I didn't realize that they were to be used at the 
rear of the train only.

               Frank in White Plains NY
---
  1st 1.01 #710  Trains don't kill people, Grade crossings do.
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: karl@empirical.com (Karl Auerbach)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: Empirical Tools and Technologies
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:33:04 GMT

In article <8834@orbit.cts.com> rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer) writes:
>From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
>Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
>Date: 30 Dec 92 00:25:00 GMT
>cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell) writes:
>>
>>As of last summer, the loop had not been replaced on the Roaring Camp line.  I
>>believe there are no plans to replace the trestle due to cost and necessary
>>enviornmental issues.

>I rode the Roaring Camp railroad late last October, and while the loss 
>of the loop years ago is regretable, the switchback and it's grade are
>quite spectacular.

When I last stopped by (a few weeks ago) there was no indication that there
were any plans to rebuild the trestle/loop.

I'd hate to think that Santa Cruz county has gotten so bad that they would
block rebuilding.  (I live in Santa Cruz within hearing range of the Roaring 
camp whistles.)

If Santa Cruz county were as truly environmental as it claims, it would 
force those !&$!~!-awful sand trucks off of highway 17 and onto the back of 
an SP train and send them all via Watsonville and Gilroy.

			--karl--
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property: common sense or am I an Idiot?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:36:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.042134.28739@cbnews.cb.att.com>
memanuel@cbnews.cb.att.com (mark.emanuele) writes:
 
>
> In the town of Hazlet, NJ the North Jersey Coast line has a station . 3/4 mile
>past the station is a grade crossing. This crossing is activated while the train
>is coming into the station. Train sits in the station for 3-4 minutes to
>load/unload. Grade crossing has gates down for 3-4 minutes with no train in
>sight. Cars start to go around gates thinking gates are malfunctioning (local kids used to take jumper cables and short the track circuit to activate
>gates) Train comes and just misses car.
>
>This seems like a situation that could be corrected by NJ Transit easily,
>however when I contacted them, they looked at me like I had three heads.
>
>Am I nuts, or is there a simple way for them to correct this VERY dangerous
>situation. (It happens at least daily).
>Oh, BTW the station is barely visible from the crossing (Bethany Rd.)
 
Obviously, one can't be 100% authoritative without knowing the particular place
involved, and I don't.  However, there are somewhat similar situations on most
commuter rail systems.  And there are ways of mechanically/electronically
dealing with the situation.  I have no idea how they work, but I've seen signal
systems that, in situations such as you describe, will lower the gates as the
train approaches, then "realize" that the train has stopped and raise them.
When the train moves again, the gates will then again lower.  Such places are
generally mentioned in the "Special Instructions" section of the Employees'
Timetable with notes such as:  "Trains that have stopped at <foobar> Station
will consume <nn> seconds after leaving the station before reaching <mumble>
Street crossing."  This to allow time for the gates to fall.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
From: sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: BART Derailment
Date: 25 Dec 92 22:01:56 PST
Organization: BBS

This is old news already, but I didn't see anything posted about it here.

BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) had its worst derailment in history (20 yrs) on
December 17th at 11:20pm. It seems the 2nd or 3rd car jumped the track on the
tightest curve in the system. Fourteen people were injured.

They said they were running the train in the opposite direction of the trains
that usually run down this particular stretch of track, although it was a
common practice when maintenance was working on the normal route.

It took them a long time before they could find the cause. They contributed the
derailment to a number of factors.

1) Wear on the curve of the track and on the wheel flange. The flanges on the
wheels on the two cars that derailed met the BART maintenance standard.

2) The tight curve radius.

3) The slight grade at that site that caused wheels to "dig in".

4) Reverse operation running against the grain of the rail.

Now I am a novice railfan, but if you ask me, these "causes" don't cut it for
me. They have run probably thousands of trains along this track in that
direction. The curve was always that tight, and the grade was always the same.
They stated that the wheel flanges and track were worn alright BUT within
standards. Am I missing something or are they?

And secondly, when I grew up on Long Island, near the LIRR, I remember seeing
these "grease pots" on the side of the rail right before a sharp curve. It
looked like the wheel flange would activate these and put a shot of grease on
the side of the rail. Couldn't this help for BART? I've taken the route of this
derailment many times, and the screeching while making that turn is intense.

One more thing and then I'll shut up. Before the "cause" was found BART kept
whinning about how old the system was and how worn out things were getting. It
sounds to me like they're trying to get more money out of someone (passengers?
fares?) with this complaint. Again, growing up in NY I used to ride the subways
all the time. Isn't the NYC subway system over 100 years old? Does BART have a
case when they claim their system is old and worn out? At 20 years old?

Sam Lewit                 | "We shouldn't be blindly opposed to all progress.
2550 Shattuck #73         | But we should be opposed to blind progress"
Berkeley, Ca. 94704       | Terrapin Transit BBS 24 HR BBS Newsfeeds Free
Internet: sam@terapin.com | 510-486-1422 3-2400  510-841-9320 HST/v32bis
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:00:10 GMT
Keywords: spirals

bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:

>jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen) writes:
>> In the USA, I know of three spirals in service: Tehachapi Loop, east of
>> Bakersfield CA on track shared by the SP & ATSF, Hiwassee Loop on CSX
>> (former L&N) between Copper Hill and Etowah TN, and the Georgetown Loop
>> tourist operation on the former Colorado Central narrow gauge.

>Isn't there also a spiral on the Roaring Camp, Big Trees, & Pacific (or the
>other RR with a similar name that operates in the same area)?

They did have a sprial at Spring Canyon that included two trestles, with
the upper trestle passing over the lower.  However, in 1976 there was
a fire (caused by arson) and the trestles burned up.  They put in a
switchback and have been using it ever since.  I was last there the
day after Thanksgiving.  On that trip the rear truck of the locomotive
(#2, the heisler) derailed on a curve at the top of the switch back
on the way up the mountain.  It took them about 30 min. to get back
on the rails using two rerailing frogs.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: percus@pnheap.in2p3.fr (Allon Percus)
Subject: Re: Report on exhibition of prototype NYC Subway trains
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:40:52 GMT
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In article <JMD.92Dec28164552@lion.bear.com> jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
>...Somewhere along the line 
>the public is going to have to realize that you can't get something 
>for nothing.  If they want better service, they are either going to
>have to pay for it through fare increases, or through tax revenue.

1980s: $.60 --> $.75 --> $.90 --> $1.00
1991: $1.15
1992: $1.25 (over 200% of 1980 price)
1993: ???

The public are not amused.


Allon Percus
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SLC<-->Denver: suggestions needed
Date: 27 Dec 92 17:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

medberry@teal.csn.org (Michael G. Medberry) writes:
>IMPORTANT RIDING TIP, IF YOU WANT TO RIDE IN THE GONDOLA (DOME CAR), GET ON IT 
>BEFORE DENVER IF YOU'RE WESTBOUND, OR BEFORE SALT LAKE (AT LEAST GRAND JUNCTION)
>IF YOU'RE EASTBOUND, LEST YOU BE UNABLE TO FIND A SEAT!!!! 
>
>medberry@csn.org

What dome car? 

Amtrak runs Superliners on this train now. As far as I know, the ski train
doesn't run east of Denver, and even if it did, I don't think that it has 
dome cars.

-- Dan
Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: SDupa@xview.csuohio.edu (Scott Hewis)
Subject: Re: AT&SF 2-10-4 Steam engines
Organization: Cleveland State University - Telecomm 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:29:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.160847.5343@uc.msc.edu> wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris) writes:
>From: wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris)
>Subject: AT&SF 2-10-4 Steam engines
>Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:08:47 GMT

>AT&SF had a number of 2-10-4s.  A book of mine says that these engines
>were numbered from 5001 on up and split into a couple of classes as
>follows:

>5001 - 5010:    Class 5001
>5011 - 50??:    Class 5011

>One of these engines is located at Santa Fe Park in Amarillo, TX.  However,
>my information shows this engine as #5000.  Is this the correct number for
>this engine?  Was this engine renumbered?

>-- 
>                                       o O O O O o o o o o o o o . . . . . . .
> __________    ___           ___      __                _
>/_______|--`--|_ _|--=-==---|_ _|--,_|__|_             |-+-------`____________,
>| ||_| /        -  |        / - \  |      || ________  |                      |
>|_|___/------------|----__---------|------|||__|__|__| |Southern Pacific Lines|
>|_|____________/-------{__}---------------{__}_______|=|_________     ________|
>/_(o)=(o) ( )( )( )( ) [__]  ( )( )( )( ) [__]--(o)     (o)(o)(o)-----(o)(o)(o)
>===============================================================================
>Wes Barris                                                   PH: (612) 626-8090
>Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.                         Email: wes@msc.edu

Wes:

If the 2-10-4 in Amarillo is the MADAME QUEEN then the number 5000 is 
correct.  MADAME QUEEN was the prototype and/or first *real* Santa Fe
2-10-4 and was a one of a kind.

Scott Hewis
--------------------------------------
* Scott Hewis; Telecom Specialist    *
* Cleveland State University         *
* email c/o scott@asgard.csuohio.edu *
--------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Subject: Re: Thomas and Friends
Keywords: Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:41:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.202939.21939@meadow.uucp> nzr20@meadow.UUCP (Nicholas Russon) writes:
>
>My son (age 22 months) is addicted to Shining Time Station/Thomas 
>the Tank Engine and Friends. At his age, he's not too worried about 
>such details as scale or historical accuracy. Just in case he ever
>gets around to asking about British railways and the relationship
>between his current favourite engine (James the Red Engine, or as he
>is known to Victor "Jaym") and reality, I'd like to be able to say 
>something halfway intelligent about it ("...of course, son, James 
>is based on an LNER mixed traffic engine from the early 1900s..."). 
>I'm sure that some magazine has probably done an article on the 
>prototypes (or lack thereof) for the various characters in the series.
>
>I've had to be in the same room with the VCR for the last year, and I'm
>curious about which engines the Rev. Awdry was modelling his creations
>on, and I hope someone has already found this information. There was an 
>article in Model Railroader several months ago, but I don't recall it 
>answering my question. Can any of the British railfans help me out on 
>this?
>
>I don't need a lot of information, but knowing which railway designed
>and built similar engines during approximately what time period would be
>more than satisfactory.
>

"Toby the Tram Engine" was based on engines on a tramway in Wisbech in
Eastern England. The line closed down sometime in the 50's:- hence the
story of Toby being purchased from a railway that didn't have any
passengers anymore.

--
Colin Morris    Ingres, an ASK Group company     cmorris@ws2s.ingres.com

"conservatives don't know how to conserve anything except their own
privileges and wealth"
From: jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Report on exhibition
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:16:02 GMT
	<C036Fq.H0F@specialix.com>
Organization: Bear, Stearns & Co. - FAST
In-reply-to: jim@specialix.com's message of 30 Dec 92 19:06:59 GMT


In article <C036Fq.H0F@specialix.com> jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer) writes:

   jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
   >In article <824.134.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) writes:
   >   JM>>  Status:                   Now in use in Kansas City?
   >   JM>I don't think they have a rail transit system in Kansas City.
   >   Maybe St Louis?  They were well along in building a transit system
   >   last summer.
   >St. Louis is a possibility -- unfortunately, I was unable to take 
   >any notes at the exhibition, and the report was done from memory...

   St. Louis is using LRVs built by Siemens-Duewag in Sacramento, CA.
   They look nothing like the R-110a.  I've talked to two friends who
   work for the TA in New York City (Ken Lin and Bill Hough) and they
   both said that that the R-110a is just a technology demonstrator and
   is very unlikely to be put into production in its current form.

I'm beginning to think that the TA person who told me this (that one
of the trains was in use or on order in another city) has his head up
his butt...

Jim, did your friends happen to mention whether perhaps the R-110b was
in use or on order elsewhere in the country?

Spidey!!!

--
You don't hunt ducks with a turnip! 

 /\ \  / /\  Josh Diamond                                          jmd@bear.com
//\\ .. //\\ AKA Spidey!!!                        ...!ctr.columbia.edu!ursa!jmd
//\((  ))/\\
/  < `' >  \                                              Do whatever it takes.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: Torpedos  (was: Incident on Boston (MBTA) Commuter Rail)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:42:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.134008.8594@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) writes:
|> 	(yes, i have the [torpedo] "formula", and no, i won't enter it.
|>	Its nasty to work with.)

I remember using ordinary safety flare powder once.  It seems to blow
up with quite a good bang when crushed under a train wheel...

By the way, isn't the railroader's "fusee" just an ordinary safety flare?

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Heritage Fleet was Re: Amtrak orders Viewliners
Keywords: Amtrak, Viewliner, Sleeper
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:56:42 GMT

 I am wondering how Amtrak is/will dispose of the heritage fleet cars.
Do they just scrap them? Or will some be donated to railroad museums? Or
do they go up for sale to the highest bidder, be he a scrapper or be he
a railroad museum?



   p_n__n__----- _______             zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  d ___--__| HH||       `---.      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
  _T-------'___-|___________|
 'o=o ()()()--'  o=o`---'o=o               Benn Coifman
          - NP 328 -                 

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Subject: CGW (was the Tunnel thread)
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:37:53 GMT

In article <122200190@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
writes:
> In rec.railroad, dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone) writes:
> > Btw, the bridge you're recalling was the Chicago Great Western bridge on 
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                               Model Railroader ran an article a couple of
>            		      months ago on a ficticious CGW "bridge road"
>   			      supposedly created out of the wreckage of 
>   			      the CGW, and my impression was that CGW is
>  			      no more, that this was all made-up. Is this
> 			      true, or is the CGW still existant. BTW,
> 			      is there an up-to-date register of Class 1
> 			      lines like there is for short lines?

As I recall, the CGW was merged into the Chicago & North Western in '60 or '61.
(I can never remember dates.)  Many railroads' corporate entities exist long 
after such mergers through spin-offs, operating some business such leasing cars
owned by the pre-merger road but not absorbed in the merger, or dealing with 
real estate which wasn't desired in the merger for some reason.  I don't know 
if this is true in the case of CGW.

Happy Holidays, everyone!
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Originator: dewi@bcrks78
Keywords: thermite rail welding
Reply-To: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:15:07 GMT


In article <921230173224@cream.ftp.com>, jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen) writes:
> In article <9o1LwB5w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> 
>     > I believe the process involves using scrap aluminium (shredded pieces
>     > provide more surface area), some compound containing iron and a catalyst
>     > compound, ...
>     
There is a method called "flash butt welding" (N.B. "Flash Butt" is not a
command to "moon") for joining rails into long lengths which was used by
London Transport in its New Works program in post-WWII years: it may 
still be in use.
It needed a hydraulically-operated fixture  (mounted on a flatcar in 
the rail-transport train) and a specialized welding power supply.

The sequence was:
- Clamp rails end-to-end in jig, separated slightly.
- Turn on power.
- Advance rails so they touch, and current flows.
- Stand clear!
- Separate rails so that an arc forms
- As soon as end surface of each rail melts, slam the rails together HARD,
  so that all the oxide and crud in the weld is forced out in the "squish",
  and kill the power.
- Allow to cool, chisel and grind off excess.

(this is from memory, so there may be errors and omissions)

... Dewi
From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Italian railways--is 1st class worth it?
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:54:19 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: William's Wonderful Wonky Widget Warehouse


In article <tgttgv.725107390@tb3.chem.tue.nl> tgttgv@chem.tue.nl writes:

#  <<Direttissimo>> has never been an official train class. 

When I was on holiday in Italy in the early 1970s the train classes were
abbreviated to A, D, DD, R and TEE, which stood for Accelerato, Diretto,
Direttissimo, Rapido and Trans Euro Express respectively.  Accelerato
was the local stopping service, the term `Locale' apparently having once
been in use but since dropped.  I was staying near Asti, which was kool
because the Accelerati were worked by steam engines. 

Ken Johnson



-- 
Son, all the pretty, intelligent,      || Ken Johnson                           healthy young women are taken.         || A I Applications Institute
It's a basic rule of the universe,     || 80 South Bridge                       and if you don't like it,              || Edinburgh,  Scotland   EH1 1HN
go somewhere else.                     || Phone 031-650 2756   Fax 031-650 6513
               -- my dad  1906-1992    || E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:24:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon Railway
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

Joe Zuk writes:

> The train can only average 30 mph because the passenger cars are on
> friction bearings. So the run time to the canyon is 2 1/2 hours.

Great balls of fire.  If you believe that one you must believe
almost anything.  In the 50's I rode those cars on the Suntan
Special when it went via Watsonville with GS 4449 and the like before
changing to two 2800 Consolidations for the run up the coast to
Santa Cruz.  Top speed between San Jose and Gilroy was slightly over
100 mph clocked over several mileposts.  Even at that time the
orange speed board posted 79 mph but this was a white flag train
with observation car.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Keywords: thermite rail welding
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:35:27 GMT

jbvb@ftp.com writes:
>
>At any rate, classic Thermite is powdered iron oxide and aluminum
>filings (dust is better).  You do need a fairly hot igniter to get it
>going, but I've seen a torch used.

By any chance, do you know what is used as a catalyst in the reaction?
I could not remember in my original posting, and nobody's said yet.

>It is still fairly widely used
>for field welds, but I think most welding plant welds are made
>electrically (butt welding as opposed to arc welding).  I'm not sure
>what length rail you can buy new, but I know a lot of RRs are still
>pulling up old jointed rail, clipping the ends and welding long strings.

I do believe that it is still widely used in the field as I recall someone
in the past year or two telling me about finding the remains of the sand
mould that was used for a nearby weld.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting strangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
Newsgroups: rec.railroad