HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Citizenship
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:00:17 GMT
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

The question's pretty much been answered on a federal level, but
in Missouri, you must be a US citizen to get a handgun purchase
permit.

One of the local rags wrote had a story on this last year - they
wanted to see how easy it was to buy a handgun and sent a reporter
to get the permit.  However, he was born in another country (to
American parents), but never became a US citizen.  They turned him
down.

	This seems odd...  I was under the impression that a person
	born to US parents was automatically a US citizen,regardless
	of place of birth.  As I understand it, no naturalization
	would be required.
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CCW Requirements, Ohio
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:23:39 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <33A71283C0000C3E@UALR.EDU> lklawson@acs.harding.edu writes:
#In article <1992Oct8.150946.7006@icd.ab.com>, kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
##Can anybody give me the lowdown on what's required to get a CCW
##in Ohio?
##
##Thanks,
##

#P.S.,
#
#   I've been looking for some real ammo for my Makarov.  I recently heard from
#a net-er that the 9x18 Police/Ultra is supposed to work in them except that he
#hadn't seen any real ammo (JHP and such like) in the 9x18 Police/Ultra.  Does
#anybody know if the mythical good ammo exist for this round (FMJ is all that
#I've ever been able to get ahold of and I'm skeptical of it's stopping
#ability).
#
#Thanx,
#-Kirk

There's very little 9mm Ultra FMJ around let alone HP. There is now
FMJ Mak Non-Corr. being imported <cheap Chinese as opposed to the 
pricier Yugo> but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for HP from that
quarter either. There simply is not enough demand as yet and the
Mak would probably be a marginal defense round even in HP. Also, 
9mm Ultra and 9mm Mak are not precisely the same and there have
been operating difficulties in experiments I've seen in the gun mags.
You may want to put the Mak back for plinking.



-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:51 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <tmi.718437304@well.sf.ca.us> tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
#
#	Urban myth notwithstanding, if someone is arrested for
#violating PC 12031 (having a loaded gun in a public place without a
#CCW) because he or she had an empty gun in the same container as one
#or more loaded magazines or ammunition in any other form, and no other
#facts exist to complicate the matter, dismissal of charges should be
#rather routine and not difficult.

	I cannot dispute anything you say up to this point.  Dismissal of
	charges is not always so simple.  Cops and prosecutors often have
	enormous problems with their demented egos and will often persist
	with charges that they have no hope of making good on in court
	just because to back down will make them look like assholes the do
	not know how to do their jobs correctly.  This hapened to me in Davis
	CA in `80 when I was arrested for grand theft.  I had a friends bicycle
	with me and was arrested for having stolen property and for having
	stolen said bike.  Turned out to have been the wrong bike (which I
	kept telling them from the start).  Even the victim of the theft told
	them this, but now they were in a bind and were not about to be shown
	up by some snot-shit college boy.  I was under charges for about 4
	months.  Each time I went to court, the asshole DA would knock the
	charges down a rung.  What my attorney told me was that they were
	backing out of the situation slowly because they got caught red
	handed in a MAJOR fuck-up and were not in any way about to admit to
	anything, which a dismissal would have been tantamount to.  They were
	also pushing hard for me to cop a plea, threating that they'd have me
	frying for 5 years if I did not.

	After about the fifth court appearance, all charges were dismissed.
	This was a miserable experience that left me feeling like shit for
	a LONG time thereafter.

	My point is that no matter HOW clear the law may sound to you, I 
	believe it is best to get a good reading of how those laws are 
	regarded by local/state law enforcement entities, or else you may 
	find yourself in the middle of something you'd really rather not
	be a part of.

	-Andy V.
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying around country
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:20 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <RTARAZ.92Oct7110857@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
#Hi all,
#
#I was thinking of taking a trip accross country on my motorcycle this
#summer and would feel much better if I had my Taurus PT92 with me.
#I have a Connecticut carry permit.  Can I get a temporary national
#(federal) permit?  If not, how can I carry it without getting into trouble?

Short answer: No and you can't. Long version, unfortunately their is no
national license system or uniform reciprocity among the states. Each
makes its own rules. You have to be familiar with the law in each state 
and even each and every locality to avoid a stay behind bars unless
you travel with it unloaded, inaccessible, and without ammo. In essence,
unless for your purpose.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: shooting with contacts -- thanks to all
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:41:37 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA



Thank you to all who responded to my question re. shooting with contacts.
Most respondants reported similar problems, mostly attributable to the
scope not being focused.  This is probably the cause, as one scope had
been adjusted to my dad, who was far sighted (I am on the other end of
the scale) and the other scope was new.  I had not realized how quickly
the eye compensates for this condition, and how much strain occurs while
the compensation is taking place.  I will focus the scopes before I try
again, and yes, I was using safety glasses.  I will, however, also have
my coke bottle bottoms close at hand, because the other problem with
contacts is that they tend to float a bit, and when trying for tight
groups, this can be a problem.
-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: fjb20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Francis J. Bruening)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Where to find Prolix in Bay Area
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:39:15 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation


Hi, 

I've called almost every gun shop in the South Bay area, and can't find 
anyone who carries Prolix.

Can someone recommend a play in the Bay area to get it or if it's only 
available via mailorder could someone give me the number to call? 

thanks!
Francis

replies by email are fine, or I'll bet others might want this info also...

Francis J. Bruening
fjb20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com <> francisb4j@aol.com
<Insert witty .sig of choice>
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: question on compact guns in 007-james-bond movie
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:15:40 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

cmk0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CHRISTOPHER MARK KULP) writes:

#Seeing that movie inspired me to consider a buying a small semi-automatic.
#After examining what was available, I decided on the small Baretta, .22
#caliber.  It feels and shoots great, and is ideal for carrying (what other gun
#can you slip right into your pocket).  It has a .25 caliber twin, but I
#believe that the .22 is fine - after all, why pay extra for an odd and more
#expensive caliber.  The only thing I changed was to use white enamel on the
#sights.

	I hope you mean the .22 LR version, instead of the .22 Short 
version.   It's double action, right?

	.22 Short is the only caliber on earth weaker than .25 Auto that 
I am aware of.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption (Portland Mystery)
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:18:40 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Oct12.025323.28277@ohsu.edu> kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski) writes:
#There was an AD with a glock when the butt of the pistol got struck with a
#night stick.  It happend during training and luckily did not hurt anyone.

This is a possibility -- it is possible (at least with my G22) to force the
striker past the firing pin block (safety) when the slide is removed, and
thus probably when the gun is normally assembled too.  I presume this was
the major motivation behind the redesign of these parts (currently being
retrofitted into pre-November 1991 manufactured Glock models).

#The second problem that was experinced 4 or 5 time was the the gun would
#"decock" due to a manufacturing defect.  The officer would chamber a round
#(and therefore cock the gun) and go about his daily business.  When they
#got to the range, they unholstered, and attempted to fire and - NOTHING.
#The slide had to be cycled and another round chambered for it to fire.

While there might have been something keeping them from firing, it couldn't
have been any "decocking", since Glock strikers are cocked by the trigger
pull, NOT by cycling the slide.  Cycling the slide, in addition to ejecting
the previous round and chambering a fresh one taken from the magazine, also
resets the trigger bar and allows the trigger to move to the forward
position.  I don't quite see how the trigger bar could work out of
alignment but I suppose it's possible, and since one of the items Glock
redesigned is the trigger bar, that may be to address that possibility.
(Unfortunately, Glock doesn't say in their letter on the upgrade
exactly what the design changes are supposed to address.  Probably their
lawyers advised against admitting any possible problems, for liability
reasons.)
From: harri@camelot.bradley.edu (Thomas Friday)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: H&K p7M8
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:59:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: camelot.harri.719179102
Organization: Bradley University

In <gerIGem00WB6IogH5e@andrew.cmu.edu> sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore) writes:

(among other things)
#(I really like this gun.)

sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it, but..

I recently shot an H&K P7M8 for the first time.. put about 200 rounds
through it.  one thing ive been wanting to ask others who have owned/shot
this gun, what do you think of the cocking lever system?

I found it a bit uncomfortable, because in order to cock the gun,
I had to squeeze it a little harder than i would like to.  I have
average sized hands, and squeezing it hard enough to cock was not at
all difficult, yet with my hand muscles tight I found it harder
to hold the gun steady.  

Not being overly experienced with handguns, I was wondering:
Am I normally holding guns too loosely?  I would think that a relaxed
grip would lend itself to better accuracy, but like I said, I'm no
expert.  I consisently shoot better with various types of
1911-style guns than I did with the H&K, which is most likely
more accurate than most of the 1911's Ive used. 


--
harri@camelot.bradley.edu 
Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need tips for gun cleaning..
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct16.194812.2888
Organization: Western Washington University

hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:

#I've found Shooter's Choice powder solvent and a stainless steel brush can
#get the front of my stainless GP100's cylinder looking like new, given
#sufficient elbow grease. [Caution:  Never use a carbon steel brush on
#stainless.  It can cause corrosion pitting.] 

Are the types of stainless steel used in the GP and other ss guns
weaker or softer than the types used in blued guns?   If so, does 
it make a difference?

JD
Disclaimer: I don't care, I like stainless anyway.
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:25 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <9210131559.aa15202@TBD2.BRL.MIL> abrant@BRL.MIL (IBD|ABB) writes:
#With the talk about .50 cal penetration into concrete I thought
#I'd do some calcs.  For a 620 grain AP bullet striking concrete
#at 2900 fps  7.5 to 11 inches of concrete is required to prevent
#penetration and 11 to 16 inches is need to prevent spalling.  
#The range is for different types of concrete (compressive 
#strength 1500-3500 psi).
#
#                                    Andy

	How about brick instead of concrete? Brick walls are more common than
all-concrete ones.
								jd.
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Trijicon vs Meprolite
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigguy.9210161533.AA17542
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

I posted several days ago asking people which they think is better: Trijicon 
or Meprolite, but no one has replied!

Is it apathy or doesn't anyone have an opinion on these sights?

Really, I'm going to buy one of them, and would like to know other people's 
thought/opinions on them.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:00:09 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

In article <1992Oct6.135736.2367@news.yale.edu>, watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct4.061151.2515@netcom.com>, tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
|> |> In <1992Oct3.003922.5337@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
|> |> #	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
|> |> #military?
|> |> 	As of a couple of months ago, about 4,000 agencies or
|> |> departments in the U.S. had adopted or otherwise authorized Glock
|> |> pistols for use.


I thought the FBI had ordered 50 000 Glock in .45 ACP??????

Steffen
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Children and toy guns...
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:22 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <sbapt1p@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#...  There was once a time where cops were expected to put their lives
#on the line to protect those of civilians instead of coming within 250
#milliseconds of gunning down a child.

There once was a time when it was generally safe to assume that a
realistic-looking gun in the hands of a child was just a toy, not
the real thing.  Alas, these days it is no longer a good assumption.

I've had to make a similar decision (although I was armed "only"
with an automobile at the time).  You may be sure that the culprit
received a severe talking-to.

#Gee, I carried a real gun as a play pistol as a child and nothing seems
#to have gone wrong.  It was a naval arms black powder revolver.
#I even wore this gun in my REAL holster to school where the teachers
#thought it was pretty neat.  This was a suburban school in
#Chattanooga, TN, btw, not some backwater. 

You sure as hell can't do that any more.  In most U.S. cities there
are now stiff penalties for this.

#...  My brother and I and the rest of the kids in the neighborhood
#played cowboys and indians and Army and somehow we managed to
#distinguish the difference between snapping toy caps and snapping the
#real things.  I find it somewhat insulting to the child to suggest he/she
#is not intelligent enough to be taught the difference.

Ah, but a large fraction of the juvenile population does NOT act as
if they know the difference, which is what motivated all those laws
requiring trigger locks on household guns.

Anyway, it is not the gun wielder who really needs to know the
difference in the situation under discussion, but the apparent
target.  I firmly believe that when someone directs a gun at you,
you are ENTITLED to assume that it is real, that it is loaded, and
that he fully intends to shoot you.  Any other reaction could get
you killed.  (It is the wielder's responsibility to observe common-
sense gun-handling rules; if he acts stupidly then HE could get
himself killed.)
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:31 GMT
Organization: who knows

##dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert) writes...
###I still think for the money .308 Win is an excellent cartridge for 1000
###yards. You can build on any type of reciever ( Long/Short ) , brass is
###cheap and Serria makes a great 155gr BTHP for it.

The .308 is a fine long-range cartridge but it usually does not win the 1000
yd matches. It will do fine for anyone who is less than a master or high
master class shooter.  Also the .308 is the only cartridge allowed for the
Palma and Palma-type matches which are shot at 800, 900 and 1000 yds.
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info on "walther P88".
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:55 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Oct1.052355.13553@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
#
#	Hi, I know the Walther-P88 is quite expensive but money aside how good 
#is it against its contemporaries (sigP226 etc), it seems to get a mention in 
#various magazines/books as an alternative to poppular high capacity 9mm semi-
#autos, but no real comments are made on its performance. Anyone familiar with
#this weapon?

	I have a P88.  I've put about 1500 rounds through it and must say that
	its a very nice weapon.  I bought it for $700 new.  As nice as it is,
	it is NOT worth $1400 retail.  Uh uh, no way.  

	The ergonomics are very nice and while I absolutely LOVE my .45 SIG,
	I think the Walther design is just a wee bit better since it is 
	ambidextrous and simpler, i.e. one lever acts as both slide release
	and decocker as opposed to two levers on the SIG.

	Regarding accuracy, I have had MUCH better results with my SIG than
	the P88.  I suspect this is because the SIG is a .45, but I may be
	wrong.  The best rapid fire I've been able to do with the P88 is a
	6 or 7 inch group, 15 rounds in 10 seconds at 10 yards.  Not world
	beating by any means, but good enough for my purposes.

	I'd say that if you can get a P88 in the $700-$800 range, they are
	worth it (very well made, especially from the frame rails down. I
	don't care much for the machine work on the slide.  A bit sloppy on
	the inside in this day of NC machining, especially at $1400.)  Other-
	wise, get a SIG.  In fact, if you can get a SIG for, say $650 or so
	then I would go with that over the Walther.  The only other advantage
	that I see over the Walther is that you are supposed to be able to
	run some pretty hot loads through it with no worry of damage whereas
	I have heard that this is a strict no-no for SIGs.  The owner manual
	for my SIG 220 says not to use anything but factory ammo, lest the
	warranty become null and void.

	-Andy V.
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:18:54 GMT
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <6903@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:
#
#This was .45s - undoubtedly subsonic. A 9mm silencer would likely be much
#less effective. I know the silencer-equipped M-16s (.223) were not nearly
#as quiet. [You had no doubt where the gunshots were coming from, and that
#they were gunshots, but you didn't need hearing protection].

they were probably not using subsonic. .45s are mostly subsonic anyway,
but 9mm and .223 need special loads. i don;'t have any problems with my
9mm uzi and silencer.

cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: A problem with short brass!?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92288.103645U53734
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago


   I hope someone can explain this to me.  I have been reloading for my .45 and
have had no problems, I have begun loading for .30-06, .300 win mag and .378
wby mag.  I have just gotten my forster trimmer and trimmed my .30-06 to 2.494"
about 60% needed trimming.  So far so good, now I calipered the .300 cases and
not one of them was long enough (2.620").  In fact, most of them were around
2.610", now I was wondering should I trim them all to 2.610" or resize and
s t r e t c h them to 2.620".  The former would give me too short of a case
while the latter would reduce my case life. BTW the cases are all Remingtons
purchased at different times.  I resized the cases with a LEE collet die (neck
only) could that have shortened the cases, I thought resizing lengthened cases,
 which is why you need to trim them.  I welcome any and all comments, Thanks.

Wesley J. Bielinski                    | "I love my country,
SGT, USAR       U53734@uicvm.uic.edu   |   it's my government I fear!"
12th Special Forces Group (Airborne)   |     Support RKBA
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:03 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Oct6.190014.13275@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#BTW, how do you practice jam recovery if your gun never jams?

The simplest method is simply to decide that at the Nth round you will
not pull the trigger but instead pretend you had and got an ignition
failure; the first attempt at jam recovery for a semiauto is the same
as for an ignition failure and should not depend on the trigger having
been pulled.  (This can also be pulled off with more surprise by loading
a "snap cap" somewhere in the magazine, or maybe an empty (fired) shell,
which might with luck really jam.)  If you want, you could add to the
previous assumptions one more, and pull the magazine as part of the
recovery process.

If you could be nearly 100% sure that you would never get a jam in a
critical situation, you could skip jam/misfire recovery practice, but
there seems little reason to make that trade-off.