HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane)
Subject: Re: UPI: Ciskei troops kill fifteen as ANC marches on Ciskei capital
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:47:02 GMT


>shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:
>: Politics is about influencing other people. It's funny how most
>: white South Africans and others applauded the mass action in
>: East Europe which brought down the regimes in East Germany
>: and Czechoslovakia peacefully and even in Romania where it wasn't
>: peaceful. 

>There isn't any parallel, merely because people are out in the streets
>in both cases. The European situation was largely spontaneous, it wasn't
>organized by a insurgent organization with a history of armed struggle
>and "people's war". One striking difference: in Europe the communists
>were the target of the protests, here they lead them. Notice Ronnie 
>Kasrils' admission that his Olympic sprint was planned, in defiance of
>a magisterial order.

>Gcozo is a tin-pot dictator, running a banana republic. However, the ANC
>knows that, and they knew what the consequences of that march would be.
>They've been battling Gcozo for some time. It's now adundantly
>clear that:

>a. They wanted the confrontation, and the massacre suits them down to
>the ground. Notice similar actions planned for Bophuthatswana.

And KwaKwa.

Also, tonights CNN has a story of a reporter who found handguns on some of
those killed by the Ciskei soldiers, when surveying the aftermath.

Thirdly, how many of those marching were from Ciskei? In Eastern Europe,
the people protesting lived in the country/area/province in which they
were protesting, not mercenaries marched in.
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Somalia watse scandal - Greenpeace
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:25:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700112:000:2769
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep 11 17:25:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: Somalia watse scandal - Greenpeace

/* Written  4:16 pm  Sep 11, 1992 by gn:fmartone in cdp:reg.africa */
/* ---------- "Somalia watse scandal - Greenpeace" ---------- */
[A(b|







 GREENPEACE REVEALS NAME OF ITALIAN COMPANY ILLEGALLY EXPORTING
                     TOXIC WASTE TO SOMALIA 

Rome,  9  September  1992 ----  Greenpeace  today  revealed  that 
the Italian company PROGRESSO s.r.l.  is the waste trader  behind 
the illegal trafficking of  toxic  waste to Somalia.
Greenpeace said the agreement for the scandalous deal was  signed 
in  Rome, on 5 December 1991 , and authorizes the  Swiss  company 
ACHAIR  and  PARTNERS  to  annnually  export  500,000  tonnes  of 
hospital    and industrial  waste from Italy to Somalia over  the 
next   twenty   years.  The waste is to go to a  10  million  ton 
disposal site. 
UNEP director Dr Mustafa Tolba this week publicised the deal, but
was  told the media that he was afraid to reveal any  details  of 
the  company  involved,  describing  the  parties  involved    as 
"mafia". 
One   of  the founding members of ACHAIR,  Pierre  Andre  RANDIN, 
has  already  been prosecuted for illegal  trade  in  information  
technology  to Eastern Europe between 1981 and 1982. Last  spring 
he  co-founded, together with Marcello GIANNONI, a company called 
"MANAWASTE", for waste exports to  the Third World. GIANNONI  now 
is a director of PROGRESSO. 
"This Somalian toxic waste export scandal underlines the  failure 
 of   the 1989 Basel  Convention to control waste trade,  and the  
urgent  need  for  a  total ban on  hazardous  waste exports   to  
developing  and Eastern European countries" commented  Greenpeace  
Italy's Roberto Ferrigno. 
The  case  also  shows  how  Italian  companies  circumvent   the 
prohibition  of hazardous waste expor s from EC Member states  to  
Somalia,  as  provided  in the LOME  IV  Convention  between  the  
European  Community  and  a group  of  69  developping  countries  
amongst which Somalia. 
Dr  Tolba  publicised the agreement this week   after  the  Basel 
Convention  Secretariat was notified of it.  Under  the terms  of 
the  Basel Convention it is perfectly legal to export   hazardous 
waste    from   Switzerland  to  Somalia  as   long    as    both 
governments agree to do so.  
"We  absolutely  have to get to a total ban of all  waste exports  
from all industrialized countries to the Third World and  Eastern  
Europe"  Ferrigno concluded.  

                             ENDS

For more information: Roberto Ferrigno, Greenpeace Italy
                      tel (39) (6) 5782484 - 5750053
                      Stefan Weber, Greenpeace Switzerland     
                      tel (41) (1) 2413441 - 2413621
From: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Hijackers of Ethiopian airliner surrender in Rome
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 06:29:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/22.5 - Novell User Group, Pretoria RSA

On <03 Sep 1992 20:45> Mpthirus said to All :

 M>country. Police said they were calm during the hijack and were 
 M>not
 M>violent.
 M>        ``The striking thing was the appalling poverty of the plane, the
 M>baggage and the plastic bags full of flour and lentils, the dirt and the
 M>precarious condition of the flight instruments,'' one official 
 M>said.

That's very interesting. I thought one of the things that provided Ethiopia 
with income was aircraft maintenance - a lot of neighbouring countries (and 
even some from quite far away) used to send their aircraft to Ethiopia for 
repairs. Does that mean that the aircraft maintenance industry in Ethiopia 
has collapsed? Or is it just the result of the hijack?

= Steve


--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS: ANGOLA: VIOLENCE IN ELECTORAL CAMPA
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:59:28 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

Area: Opecna Morning Transmission
Title: ANGOLA: VIOLENCE IN ELECTORAL CAMPAIGN CAUSES CONCERN


luanda, sep 3 (ips) -- as the countdown to angola's first
multi-party elections begins, the government appears to be
seriously worried about the violence which has characterised the
beginning of the electoral campaign.

''the situation in the country is extremely serious'', the
information secretary of the ruling popular movement for the
liberation of angola (mpla), jose lourenco, told reporters here
monday.

lourenco said the international community must take ''rapid
measures'' to end the violence in accordance with the 1991 peace
agreement, which ended the country's 16-year civil war and
ushered in the multi-party elections which are scheduled for
sep. 29-30.

six people were killed in a clash in central angola between
supporters of the mpla and unita at the beginning of the
electoral campaign, saturday.

the mpla's campaign manager, kundi paihama, escaped unhurt
when supporters of unita, the mpla's main rival, fired on his
motorcade in huambo province, a unita stronghold.

nine others were wounded in the incident. other acts of
violence have been reported in several parts of this petrol-rich
southern african nation, including the capital, luanda.

at least eight persons were killed in the central province
of malanje last week.

the violence has mushroomed despite an appeal by president
jose eduardo dos santos on the eve of the electoral campaign for
all angolans to exercise ''order, discipline and political
calm''.

the anxiety here among people is palpable, afraid that
angola's first ever multiparty elections will degenerate into
the fighting that wrecked the 1975 alvor accords between the
competing liberation movements leading to independence from
portugal, that culminated in the years of full-scale civil war.

concern over the prevaling insecurity has also been expressed
by former nigerian president, gen olusegun obasanjo, who is
chair of ''the african leadership forum''.

''the friends of angola are watching with great interest the
the peace accord which is now being implemented'', obasanjo told
an international meeting on human rights here monday. (more/ips)


angola: electoral (2)

''all that will take place here this month will be used to
judge the african continent'', added the former nigerian head
of state.

unita leader jonas savimbi has condemned the wave of
violence, but accused the mpla of using the distrubances as a
pretext to put off the elections.

at unita's first party convention saturday at the southern
port city of lobito, savimbi repeated his parties commitment to
the peace accords which calls for the disbanding of the two
armies and the creation of a unified force. he also invited
other parties to form a government of national unity after a
unita election victory.

(story received incomplete)


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: Exclusivity of "Die Stem"
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:32:53 GMT

govender@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Govender) writes:

>the issue at hand (i.e. the fuss about the singing of the stem at ellis park)
>does not lie with the literal meaning of the words, it is in the emotions
>and sentiments they represent. 

I agree (about the reason for the fuss) - I was just making "an aside" as
they say in scripts - and not that an important "aside" either, so I'll
shut up now.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: msncra01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Craig Mason0--Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: Campus Fascists
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:52:22 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Sep9.131733.202726@uctvax.uct.ac.za>,
wnljam01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
 [ various quotes removed - sorry, I _hate_ having to page through quotes ]
> I don't believe there has ever been freedom of speech at certain university's
> in S.A. - certainly not at U.C.T or Wits!  Last week SASCO made a mega-noise
> because of an INKATHA speaker being invited onto the campus - they suggested
> the trashing of the meeting!  Interesting parley for "freedom of speech"
> advocates.  I wonder if the ANC and their puppets know what those words mean?!

But of course you overlook SASCO's first objection - that INKATHA has no idea
what freedom of speech means. After all, SASCO is effectively banned on all
KwaZulu campuses, is not allowed anywhere in KwaZulu. Don't try to whitewash
Inkatha by criticising SASCO.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Mason-Jones, (MSNCRA01)
University of Cape Town, RSA
msncra01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane)
Subject: UPI: ANC will meet only if government moves to curb violence
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:38:47 GMT



	JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (UPI) -- The African National Congress
agreed Thursday to hold talks with the government on ways to avoid
violent confrontations like the one this week that resulted in the
massacre of 28 ANC protesters by black soldiers in the nominally
independent homeland of Ciskei.
	ANC Secretary General Cyril Ramaphosa told a news conference the
anti-apartheid organization was prepared to accept President Frederik de
Klerk's appeal for face-to-face talks with ANC leader Nelson Mandela in
the wake of the massacre Monday.
	But he said the ANC only would participate in the meeting if talks
were aimed at moving the country toward peace and full democracy and
were preceded by concrete government measures aimed at curbing violence,
such as a ban on the carrying of dangerous weapons in public.
	``The ANC is prepared to participate in the summit suggested by (de
Klerk),'' Ramaphosa told the news conference.
	De Klerk called Wednesday for an urgent meeting with Mandela and said
he agreed with the ANC's argument that meaningful talks on establishing
full democracy could only resumed once the level of violence in South
Africa had been reduced.
	The call for the meeting came two days after black homeland soldiers
fired into a crowd of 20,000 ANC supporters, killing 28 people and
wounding another 196 as they marched to demand the resignation of the
Ciskei homeland's military leader, Brig. Oupa Gqozo.
	The massacre added to the more than 6,000 killings recorded since de
Klerk started his process of political reform in February 1990. The ANC
withdrew June 23 from talks on full democracy, saying the government was
involved in politically motivated violence.
	Pretoria denied the charges and called on the liberation movement to
return to the negotiating table.
	The ANC rejected the calls and said it would only return to multi-
party talks once the government had satisfactorily met 14 demands aimed
at ending violence and hastening the democratic process.
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: If Civil War would there be arms supplied?
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:38:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Sep13.193826.12217
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <1992Sep10.045839.10518@zooid.guild.org> Adam Lawrence Salter <adam@zooid.guild.org> writes:

>  Is civil war possible or probable in South Africa?

There are some who would say that there is already a form of civil war
going on.  But in the sense of the civil war in the former Yugoslavia,
no, I don't think its probable.  Possible, sure... but anything is
possible given the right circumstances.

>  In the case of a civil war, would weapons be supplied to the ANC and the
>government and the Inkatha and would it be done legally and who would supply
>these weapons?

South Africa has its own weapons manufacturing industry, which produced
large quantities of rifles and ammunition almost constantly through the
1970's and 80's.  So much so that Armscor is considered one of the
worlds larger arms exporters.

There isn't any shortage of locally manufactured low-tech weapons, and
there is a fair quantity of "medium-tech" weaponry lying about the
place.  The ANC has (or had) it's own sources of supply.

So, the ingredients are readily available, but it's encouraging that they
haven't been used by anyone other than fringe elements on either side.
I'd like to think that there isn't much willingness left to use these
weapons in any massive way, and that talking rather than fighting is
seen by most parties as the only sensible solution to this country's
problems.

The "legality" of dishing out weapons to all and sundry in a case of
civil war is something that would need to be discussed at length in
"talk.bizarre" by Wayne Humphries.

>  What would the U.N. and U.S. and other countries do?

Who knows?  Probably much the same as they're doing in Bosnia-Herzegovina,
or, which should give everyone food for thought, Liberia.

>  I am of course only looking for opinions and not definite answers.

That's all you're getting - I'm not claiming to represent any party
line whatsoever.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: A question for ANC supporters (re: Bisho)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:56:04 GMT

In <nicolson.35@odie.ee.wits.ac.za> nicolson@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (James Nicolson) writes:

>Without the help of hindsight, it would have required a great deal of 
>cynacism on the part of the local activists to believe that what they were 
>doing did not have a strong chance of succeeding. Hindsight, however, shows 
>that they were desperately wrong.

Hindsight has nothing to do with it.  Well before the event, just about
everyone in sight was telling them they were playing with fire - if you
have an unstable, threatened dictator on the receiving end of mass
action, the consequences are easy enough to predict.  Not to excuse, but
to predict.

I think cynicism is about the right interpretation... either that or
immaturity.  Going ahead with a confrontational march whose plainly
stated aim was to "topple the Ciskeian government" shows some lack of
judgment.  Either that or a "to hell with the consequences" type
attitude.

>Also, any idea that the ANC wanted a massacre is absurd. The organisers 
>genuinely believed that they would be able to reach bisho.

This is probably the crux of the issue.  Reach Bisho and do what?  If
you can go half way to answering this, you may have some sort of
explanation for the course of events.

>I think of all the people involved the ANC is the most shocked. It seems 
>that ANC activists are the only large group which feels the true shock and 
>despair at what happened.

That's unfair.  Large numbers of people were and are shocked.  Unless
what you're trying to say is that ANC supporters are especially shocked
for two reasons (1) because mass action didn't work, and (2) their
supporters got killed.  Many other people are shocked because people
got killed in a predictable and possibly avoidable confrontation.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: UPI: Ciskei troops kill fifteen as ANC marches on Ciskei capital
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:56:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Sep10.075600.21093
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane) writes:
>	JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (UPI) -- Soldiers killed at least 15 people
>and wounded 144 when they opened fire Monday on thousands of African
>National Congress supporters as they marched to demand the resignation
>of the military leader of the Ciskei, a black homeland in South Africa,
>the South African Press Association (SAPA) reported.
>	South African government spokesman Deon van Loggerenberg confirmed
>the death toll but warned it could still rise.

This morning's newspaper has the death toll at "at least" 32.

-- 
--------- Heidi de Wet ---------- heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za ---------

For the finest galactic travel
                             Kippenhan Cruiseliners gets you there
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 07 Sep 92 10:38 PDT
Subject: Re: SOMALIA: As if hunger is not bad en
Nf-ID: #R:Bu6st2.7D8@usenet.ucs.indiana.ed:882961268:cdp:1471700106:000:80
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep  7 10:38:00 1992


UN mission to Italy phone number (supplied by charlie scheiner): 
212-486-9191.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: About IPS Postings
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:08:43 GMT

I have been in conversation  this week with the 'newsdesk' that
is mentioned at the beginning of each IPS news story posted to
this group.

They are reminding me to stay outside the 7-day zone for stories
reprinted without their permission.

Therefore, you're going to have a bit more delay imposed on
material from IPS.

Since it seems to take about a day for my postings to disseminate
to everybody's news feed, I will try to post 7 days after a
story's dateline so that you will all have it on the 8th.

I'm sorry but I cannot accommodate special requests as I have
just enough time in my day to get to IPS postings.  Hope everybody's
profiting from the information.


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za (Justin Jonas)
Subject: Re: A question for ANC supporters (re: Bisho)
Reply-To: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, SA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:46:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.190453.27212@hippo.ru.ac.za>, ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
>
>This "sustained ANC bashing" consists of a few postings questioning the
>motives of ANC leaders in carrying out their mass action campaign given
>the near certainty of a violent bloodbath.  Nobody in their right minds
>is claiming that Gqozo isn't a petty dictator - all that's in dispute
>is the most effective way of removing him from office, or, even better,
>making his office irrelevant.  Taking a suicidal gamble that doesn't
>come off and getting your supporters killed isn't a particularly
>effective way of achieving this.

The massacre happened because:
a) there was a march, and
b) there was a bunch of undisciplined soldiers proping up an unpopular
   regime

As I and others have said before, the march was inevitable: ANC alligned people
are being killed in the Ciskei quite regularly, the Monday bloodbath was just
a more "high profile" event.  The SA government has complete financial
and security control over the Ciskei (i.e. our tax money is used to keep
an extremely inefficient and corrupt administration in power).  I would
have thought that if the SA government were truly concerned about the outcome
of the march it would have been much more logical for them to "lean"
on Gqozo, and take control of the security arrangements.  The SADF and SAP
have shown a lot of restraint at marches lately.  Remember, the ANC have
marched on the Union Buildings without a single fatality (and there were
reports of guns in the crowds).  But that of course would have been a political
disaster for them, caving in to ANC pressure.  

People do seemingly suicidal things to achieve what they think is justice:
WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, ...

Perhaps we should all show our respect to those who died and observe
a "day of silence" on the net, rather than voice our white angst and/or
superiority.

Justin

====================================================~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~
    Justin Jonas        Radio Astronomy Group,                      /V\
  _____       __    __  Dept. Physics & Electronics,         \    /     \    /
 /____/ \    /_/|  /_/| Rhodes University,                     \/   |v|   \/
|  __ \ /|  | | | | | | Grahamstown 6140, South Africa           \__|#|__/  26m
| |__) |/   | | | | | | Internet: phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za    HartRAO   /X\    dish
|  ___ \ \  | \_\/  | |           phjj@hippo.ru.ac.za             /\/|\/\
|_|/  \__\/  \___/|_|/      Tel: +27(461)22023 ext 452      ____/\/__|__\/\____
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: The Xhosa dominated ANC
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:07:24 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes) writes:
: In a note of <27 Aug 1992 20:24>, Gavan Tredoux (5:7104/2) wrote:
: 
:  GT>The people you've met. It'll look good in your autobiography,
:  GT>but it tells us nothing about the ANC. They have close to zero
:  GT>white support, 20% coloured, 10-20% Indian, and the rest 
:  GT>black.
:  GT>Domination of the Nat Exec by Xhosas is easy to establish - 
:  GT>get a list
:  GT>and work through them. Historical domination and 
:  GT>*disproportionate*
:  GT>Xhosa support is just as easy to establish. Moreover, it's common
:  GT>cause in SA politics.
: 
: I suppose the Ciskei government consists of Zulus who were brutally attacked 
: by the Xhosa ANC hordes yesterday.

Not at all, it's a different conflict. Amazing who seems to be the common
denominator (lowest common denominator it would seem)

Gavan Tredoux
UCT