From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
Subject: Re: children as appendage
Summary: What incredible narrow-mindedness and self-righteousness!
Organization: Boye, Dewey, Cheetham and Howe, Atty's.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:00:50 GMT
X-Note: changed Newsgroups

In article <1992Aug20.165324.16448@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mic.Oettinger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger) writes:
>There is a problem here that none of you men are taking the time to think
>about. You are saying the man should have the right to refuse any
>responsibility for the child before it is born.

Why not?  Women have that right.  And they can exercise it afterwards, too.
(Except you whine about that.)

>The problem with asking
>the woman to choose between aborting the child or giving it up for
>adoption, and keeping it and taking full responsibility in every way for
>the child is that many women (myself included) could never kill their
>child.

To you, it's a child.  To 1.5 million women a year, it's not.
So, you want others to be restricted in order to make things
better for *you* and those choices to which *you* limit yourself.

If you decide to convert to orthodox Islam I'm not going to stop
eating bacon, and I'll *fight* to make you leave me alone.  Your
choice of options in anything else ought not to be binding on
others either, infidel or not.

>You are asking women to possibly do something that is against their
>morality or values or beliefs or religion or whatever else. You cannot
>even ask a woman to make that decision, because it is something many many
>women could never fathom. Killing a child or giving it up for adoption is
>one of the most difficult and painful things a woman can do.

If you can't stand the heat, sleep alone.  If you are an adult,
you ought to be able to make your own decisions and take
responsibility for them.  Your decisions are rightfully your
SOLE responsibility.  If you want to share responsibility for
your decision, you rightfully must share the decision too.

If you do a stupid thing and are faced with difficult and painful
choices, this is not my problem.  You do not have the moral right
to take away someone else's choices to make yours easier.  You
have that legal right today, but I'll take it away from you the
first chance I get.

>It is not
>something so easy to decide as "Oh my God, HE doesn't want the child, so I
>better abort it or give it up never to see it again after it's birth. Be
>reasonable! This is a human being you are asking a woman to give up
>forever! You would not appreciate being put in that situation with your
>own child, so don't be so cruel as to think you could have the power to
>put a woman in that situation.

If you can't face the decision, keep your pants on.  Men get NO
alternatives at all beyond that, and you think YOU have problems? 
Buzz off.  Go cry somewhere else.

>I never would go so far as to say ALL woman are as caring as I am. Nor
>would I ever be so bold as to claim men are scum who couldn't care less. I
>think woman who get abortions, no matter what the reason short of her life
>being in jeopardy, are heartless, selfish people whom I could never
>understand.

And you have the gall to call yourself caring!  You don't have
the tiniest mote of compassion that it would take to empathize
with someone else's situation, and you call *them* heartless.
You think of people who may be sacrificing for the rest of their
family, and you whine that *they* are selfish.

How deliciously ironic.  And how amusing that you'll never understand.

>There is always adoption if they cannot raise the child
>themselves....

Wasn't it you who was just whining about adoption being too
hard for you?

Do I detect a rationalization generator gone wild?

>They are people too, and you do not have the authority to suggest
>the value of your life is greater than any other's.

Or vice versa... contrary to the agenda YOU push.

Go tell it to someone who gives a shit.  I don't give a
shit, I don't take any shit, I'm not in the shit business.
-- 
	Arrogant?  Of course I'm arrogant; the best usually are.
Newsgroups: alt.child-support