HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dye@i88.isc.com (Ken R. Dye )
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:38:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.030309.27017@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>In article <BxGK7q.8vE@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov9.142713.8903@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>>>The way I see it, there are two possibilities:
>>>1) Senna punted Mansell off on purpose.  Considering Senna's track
>>>   record, I have to agree with Dan that this is (unfortunately)
>>>   a very real possibility.
>>
>>As soon as I saw the accident I just *knew* there were going to be
>>postings to the net accusing Senna of deliberately crashing into
>>Mansell.  I see my faith in my fellow netters is justified :-)
>
>I see we had a similar reaction!
>
>What I want to ask these people is, "Why would Senna want to trash his
>own car by punting Mansell off?"

	You're right, senna only punts cars off the track when
it will benefit him (Japan, last year...)

	He's still an asshole, irregardless of this incident.

--Ken
-- 
Ken R. Dye				an optimist is a guy		 |
Interactive Systems Corp., Chicago	that has never had		 | 
(800) LAI-UNIX x341			much experience			 |
dye@i88.isc.comm						archy	 |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
From: taj@manta.dsto.gov.au (Trevor Jackson)
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:26:55
Organization: /home/manta/dt/taj/.organization
In-reply-to: s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au's message of Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:48:48 GMTLines: 20


It was reported here in Adelaide that Williams team approached the race
stewards regarding the incident between Mansell and Senna. After viewing the
video of the incident frame by frame, the stewards concluded that on lap 19, (I
think that's the correct lap) at hairpin before pit straight, Mansell braked
some 20 metres earlier (for whatever reason) than he had been braking on
previous laps. 

This unexpected early slow down resulted in Senna crashing into the back of
Mansells car. As far as I know, the Williams team didn't follow it up any more.
It was also reported that Mansell was disappointed that Williams didn't back
him up (I don't know how true this is).

When watching the incident in replay, the more I saw it, the more I was
convinced that Mansell braked earlier for that corner than he had done
previously.

It would be interesting to find out what the Williams telemetry data indicated.
From: sk1y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shuntaro Kawakami)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Result of Australian GP??
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:10:03 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Could anybody post the result of the Australian GP?

Thanks.
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:32:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov10.063205.17727
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

Perhaps now is the time to reveal the other part of the Williams 
electronics package for next year, the "Anticollider".  Activated by
proximity radar, it prevents the driver from approaching another car 
unless a switch is depressed on the steering wheel.  It uses advanced
vision techniques pioneered with the "Autogasser" to recognize all
other cars on the circuit and avoid them.

Unidentified Williams spokesmen said that the most daunting problem was
to prevent the car from stopping altogether if it approached a competitor
who had halted on the track for some reason.  "But we feel we've whipped
the problem, and once the circuits become fully traced with technology
similar to those which guide robots on factory floors, we can successfully
eliminate the expense and annoyance of human pilots.  In fact, we've 
signed up several well-moneyed passengers for the ultimate thrill ride
in 1994."

Just kidding.  Maybe.
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: jwj2@po.CWRU.Edu (Jermaster)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Nascar info.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:02:09 GMT
Organization: Eastern & Ohio Railroad Company
NNTP-Posting-Host: b63154.student.cwru.edu

In article <1992Nov11.153443.2907@convex.com> miller@convex.com (Ken Miller) writes:

>	Richard Petty is to hold a news conference tomorrow (Thursday)
>	where he is expected to announce the driver of his STP sponsored
>	#44 car for the '93 season.
        ^^^
What's happening to the #43? Are they "retiring his number," so to speak?

Thanx,
-Jer
--
Jerry W. Jordak      "It's like going to the store to buy apples and 
a.k.a. Jermaster      oranges and coming back with a Porsche"--Bruce Ikenaga
(jwj2@po.cwru.edu)     
         *** 1 more race for #43....We'll miss you, King Richard ***
From: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Senna's an ass!
Date: 8 Nov 92 14:18:04 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

If you havent seen or heard of the Australian GP, stop now!








Last warning......







 What an ass! Based on the final race accidents that Senna has been involved
in the last few years, I tend to think 'he took Nigel out'! Why not? He had
nothing to lose, it seems that unless Senna had some kind of a failure
(brakes?) he was just driving over his head. Perhaps a years rest will help
to stop his all to common problems in those final races. It would be very
unsportsman like if Senna took ol Nigel out just to stop him from setting
another record (most wins in a season).

 -Dan

 PS: Im sitting here watching the race now (had to be at work last night,
     adding hard drives to our Novell server) and just needed to vent a
     bit of steam.
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital                 Network Adminstration,
  Dan Schein - Information Systems    __|__       Programming, Parenting,
  RD 1 Box 250                   ______(*)______  Rappelling, and soon...
  Reading, PA 19607                   o/ \o       Sky Diving!

  rehab1!dans@cbmvax.commodore.com -OR- {uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!dans
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Stuff
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:09:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <9211091252.AA07676@client47.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, by Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk:
> 
> Hi racers
> 
> We all know how much Williams have dominated F1 this year (except
> yesterday in aussi) but how about a think for next year. My information
> is as follows. ABS on the car which we all heard about some time ago.
> But Willy has looked at pre-programmed wings. So when the FW15 gets
> to a circut the car knows the circuit like the driver. The wings move
> up and down hydralically (sp) so to get speed down the straight and
> grip on the corners. Good idea ey!!! And i'm told it works. There is 

Just one small problem.  The rules prohibit, as they have for 23 years
now, moving or movable aerodynamic devices (meaning wings!).

> something in the rules about things not moving but somehow this has
> been got round. Lawyers have been through the rule book backwards this
> last four months.

I would not bet on it.  If what you say is true, sounds to me like some 
solicitor has led someone up the garden path.
> 
> Also i understand they have tried front wings that rotate rearwards
> at speed like a jet plane. Another pre-programmed innovation.
> 
> Well its getting out if hand if you ask me.
> 
> More when i know.
> 
> Alan

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: plamoia@encore.com (Pete LaMoia)
Subject: re:Brain Fade
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:34:10 GMT


  I can't imagine an "official" definition  of  BRAIN  FADE  but  I
  believe  that  it  derives  its name from brake fade, as when you
  overuse your brakes causing them to  overheat  and  reduce  their
  effectiveness  (as in "oh shit, brake fade, I'm going to hit that
  [CRASH] rail.")  Yes,  it  does  describe  a  momentary  lack  of
  concentration.

  For me, the term brain fade  also  implies  that  the  person  is
  normally  stable  and  predictable,  that is, a moron cannot have
  "brain fade" since he is in a PERMANENT state of reduced capacity
  :)  His brakes NEVER worked.

  This seems to affect even some of the best drivers from  time  to
  time,  and I believe it may describe what happened to Mario Senna
  last week.

  Cheers



Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: kevinc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (kevin.j.coulter)
Subject: Re: IMSA vs. IndyCar
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:27:52 GMT

Something nobody has commented on is the relation weather had on the
times. Face it, cooler weather better times. So we need to make sure we
are comparing apples and apples.  If you take the weather comments into
account below, IMSA cars are generally faster....

In article <72166894229787@c00027-207dan.eos.ncsu.edu> jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>
>           Portland
>         ------------
>IMSA       1:00.354    Juan Fangio II, Toyota Eagle MKIII
>IndyCar    1:00.658    Emerson Fittipaldi, Penske 92-Chevrolet/B

I think the weather was comparable......

>         Laguna Seca
>         ------------
>IndyCar    1:11.185    Michael Andretti, Lola T92/00XB-Ford/Cosworth XB
>IMSA       1:11.294    P. J. Jones, Toyota Eagle MKIII

not sure of the weather comparison.


>         Road America
>         ------------
>IMSA       1:47.913    Juan Fangio II, Toyota Eagle MKIII
>IndyCar    1:48.2105   Paul Tracy, Penske 92-Chevrolet/B

weather was almost the same. Note that rahal holds the ra track record
with a low 1:47 set last year. However, that was in late sept with nice,
cool weather, as opposed to the heat encountered this year....

>           Mid-Ohio
>         ------------
>IndyCar    1:08.766    Michael Andretti, Lola T92/00XB-Ford/Cosworth XB
>IMSA       1:09.856    Davy Jones, Jaguar XJR14

it was cooler at m/o when the indy cars were there. weather that would
have been a full 1+ secs worth I'm not sure....


				Kevin

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: billybob@bmerh723.BNR.CA (Bill Nickerson)
Subject: Tires and rims for Dodge Stealth R/T.
Keywords:  Stealth, tires, wheels
Reply-To: billybob@bmerh723.BNR.CA (Bill Nickerson)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:04:06 GMT


Hi, People.

I'm not sure whether this is the proper place to post, but ...

In Canada we are cursed with the snow thing in winter. However, I still wanna
drive my Stealth R/T around because I don't want to depend on the public
transit schedule. Can anyone help me with a good size and price for
some good winter tires? The dealer said 205/65 15 tires on a
15x6 wheel would be fine. I cringed when the price of $150 for the wheels
alone was given (and steel wheels at that!) Is this unreasonable?

Also, I was thinking of putting Goodyear MNS tires on whatever I eventually
get. Any advice on these?

Thanks, and again, sorry if this is not the appropriate group.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
          ___        __   __   __    __    |     Billy Nickerson      
         /\__\_     /\_\ /\_\ /\_\   \/    |  22C Castlebrook Lane    
        / /  /_\   _\/_// / // / /__   __  |  Nepean, ON    K2G 5G3   
       / /  ___ \ /\_\ / / // / //\_\_/\_\ |--------------------------
      / /  /_\/ // / // / // / / \/ /_\/ / |     billybob@bnr.ca      
      \/_______/_\/_/_\/_/_\/_/___\___  /  |--------------------------
      /\____________________________\/ /   |  All expressed opinions  
      \/______________________________/    |   are mine, not BNR's.   
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:04:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.063205.17727@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>eliminate the expense and annoyance of human pilots.  In fact, we've 
>signed up several well-moneyed passengers for the ultimate thrill ride
>in 1994."
>
>Just kidding.  Maybe.
> 
What?  You mean we already do not have that now with the rich drivers buying
up rides and stroking around the race track?  (a smiley face .... maybe)
-- 
Russell Jaslow         |Spec Racer #33 Finger Lakes Reg|NY RANGERS|My employer
Eastman Kodak Company  |In memorium: Andrew Spiller,   |and the   |has nothing
Rochester, New York    |Cynthia Bishop Halstead.  Keep |Cup!  Why |to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com|the damn drunks off our roads! |not dream?|my drivel.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Jim Bown at Hickory (BGN)
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:15:24 GMT

Just wanted to give a call to my friend Jim Bown for his
performance at Hickory over the weekend in BGN.  Here's
a great example of what racings' all about.  Obviously
without any real sponsorship, Jim made what races he could
afford throughout the Busch season.  It all came together
this weekend when he put his well-used Buick on the pole,
ahead of all the high-roller teams, then drove a smart race
(luckily avoiding most of the numerous incidences during the
crash-fest) bring his car home to a respectable 4th place
finish.  As they mentioned on air, Jim's dad, Dick, picked up
a motor at an auction for $6000 to drop in the car for this
race.

In his pre-race interview, it was nice of Jim to say howdy to
all the folks back in Portland and the guys down at Rose Auto
Wrecking (Dick's yard).

Obviously, Jim got quite a bit of on-air time.  If I was smart,
I would've sent Jim a few bucks and a couple of "PITSTOP" decals
for the quarter-panels.  I could've realized several thousand 
dollars worth of "in-focus" television time!  In the end, I hope
Jim did well enough to interest some sponsors for next year.

Congrats to Joe Nemechek for squeezing out the championship.
Earlier in the season, he was strictly a race-by-race operation.
He managed to come home 6th yesterday, despite Jimmy Spencer's
efforts!    

Lastly, is Bobby Labonte destined for #43?

-cball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: torito@IASTATE.EDU (Jaime Santiago)
Subject: Rallies Championship????
Reply-To: torito@IASTATE.EDU (Jaime Santiago)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:46:09 GMT


I've read in soc.culture.spain that the current classification is as follows:

1.Carlos Sainz 126pts
2.Kankkunen    124pts
3.Auriol       123pts 

Could someone verify this please.

Jaime Santiago
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (SHERLOCK)
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:49:10 GMT

rda735z@nella5.cc.monash.edu.au (Simon Cocking) writes:

>pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:

>>It looked like Berger ran out of fuel crossing the line, Schumacher
>>was several seconds behind the previous lap and Berger slowed
>>dramatically as he crossed the line.

>Hmmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but if Berger had no fuel crossing the
>line, then surely he couldn't have completed the net 'parade' lap, and I'm
>sure I saw him circulating after he finished.

>>--
>>Paul O'Donnell - Softway Pty Ltd         |"You're just saying that because
>>Internet: pod@softway.sw.oz.au           |you don't understand art."
>>Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge

>Simon.
>--
>+---------------  Simon Cocking, sgc@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au  -------- /// -+
>|               Robotics & Digital Technology / GAUnix Group        ///   |
>|                             Monash University                 \\\///    |
>+-------------------------  Melbourne, Australia.  ------------- \XX/ ----+

This is true, Berger was later quoted as saying that his fuel gauge read empty
but he discovered he still had enough fuel to complete another lap.

Just my $0.02 worth.


         _________  __          __________  ___________   _________    ___   ___
        /  _____ / / /        / ________ / /____  ____/  /  ____  /   /  /  /  /
      /  /__     / /        /  /___           /  /     /  /   /_/   /  /__/  /
    /  ____/   / /        /  _____/         /  /     /      _     /  ___   /
  /  /       / /_____   /  /_____         /  /     /  /___/ /   /  /  /  /
/__/       /________/ /_________/       /__/     /________/   /__/  /__/
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio)
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Summary: REsults, events, and some gossip
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, JCUNQ
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:08:19 GMT

In article <frank.31.721350221@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au> frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio) writes:
>From: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio)
>Subject: Aus GP Stuff
>Summary: REsults, events, and some gossip
>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:03:41 GMT

>Well I don't see any sort of summary in this neck of the woods so here goes 
>with a rough summary from memory.

>The race started of course with Mansell in his record 14th pole position but 
>Senna was there in second and he managed to stay with Nige. Now Mansell may 
>well be the World Champion but I have been  extremely impressed at how Senna 
>could manage to stay so competetive in an inferior car. For my money, this 
>makes him the better driver. I couldn't see Mansell doin as well as Senna 
>given the situation was reversed. (my two cents).

>Well I WAS impressed with Senna until he had his characteristic (from his 
>early and more recent exploits) "brain fade". With Mansell braking to take 
>the corner, Senna failed to read the braking and went right up the Williams 
>bum forcing both off. Mansell ran from the car as Senna approached. He was 
>later to say that if he had gone anywhere near Ayrton at the time, he would 
>have punched him in the head. Senna denied responsibility (as usual) but all 
>evidence clearly pointed the finger to his falling asleep at the wheel. Lets 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>face it, any racing driver let alone these "Superlicensed" fellas, could 
>have avoided that collision. 

Ooops. Shouldn't have been so hard on Ayrton before reading the rundown in 
the papers. I'm sure other posters will have the full story but the accident 
wasn't as unavoidable as I made out. Apologies to all. I'm still fuming at 
Senna from when he and Prost collided giving Senna the Championship :-)

Cheers
Ferrank
=====================================================================
Frank Savaglio                                   *
Electrical & Computer Engineering
James Cook University                       *         *
                                                   +
Townsville. Nth Qld. Australia

E-mail: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au              *

=====================================================================
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Prost won't race #0 next year
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:55:04 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

According to last Thursday's AutoSport, Prost refuses to race
#0 next season.  I say screw him, if he doesn't have a #0 on
the side of his car, his laps don't count.  Its time for FISA
to flex a little muscle.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marbm-b@ascii.co.jp (Marcos Bachir Mubaied)
Subject: Re: Adelaide: Senna-Mansell crash
Organization: ASCII Corp. Tokyo, Japan
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:19:59 GMT

>As far as I know, Senna's reason was that Mansell outbraked him.


	Today's newspaper is saying that Mansel had problems
	with the traction control wich caused Mansel's car
	to have a sudden deceleration . Anyway, Senna had no
	other option than push hard in order to pass the
	superior Williams car.

-- 
               ___   | |       |  ___   | |  /|  |  | |              |
              |  |  _| |         |  |  _| | /_|  |  | |    |  |  |   |
       o_|__|____| |   | | o |_o____| |   |   |__|__| |  o_|__|__|___|
   ___/   oo    ___|     |___|     ___|              ___/          o
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com>
Subject: TSN's "coverage" of Australian GP
X-Xxdate: Mon, 9 Nov 92 08:17:15 GMT
Organization: bnr
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:17:15 GMT

Well, TSN has done it again.  After cutting the live coverage of the
Japanese GP after 36 laps in order to show Toronto fans celebrating
the world series win, this week they don't show the start and the
first five laps of live coverage of the Australian GP, in order to carry
the exciting finale of - ready for this???


                              college volleyball.


How do we get through to these people?!?

Tim
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sport Salaries
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:38:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov10.063851.17818
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

>
>Why?
>
>If any locals can recall the channel, please post.  What's its all about
>are the local broadcasters embarrassed they can't pronounce Ayrton or 
>Mansell?
>
>Dan Jones

Don't forget you're in the land of William Randolph Hearst, who declared 
automotive racing a Blood Sport in the 30s (actually, with some reason 
during a rather ghastly period in the sport) and many West Coast papers 
and media have been staunchly anti-racing ever since.  He sold a LOT of
papers playing up racing as a sport of death-seekers and death-watchers.

The stigma remains; other than the LA Times, are there any really 
pro-racing dailies???  I know the fellow who edited the Times is a staunch
racing fan and promoted races at Riverside for some time...
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:33:08 GMT
Reply-To: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Nov11.030309.27017@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>In article <BxGK7q.8vE@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov9.142713.8903@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>>>The way I see it, there are two possibilities:
>>>1) Senna punted Mansell off on purpose.  Considering Senna's track
>>>   record, I have to agree with Dan that this is (unfortunately)
>>>   a very real possibility.
>>
>>As soon as I saw the accident I just *knew* there were going to be
>>postings to the net accusing Senna of deliberately crashing into
>>Mansell.  I see my faith in my fellow netters is justified :-)
>
>I see we had a similar reaction!
>
>What I want to ask these people is, "Why would Senna want to trash his
>own car by punting Mansell off?"

No one can see into his mind so know one really knows. But once Senna had
admitted that he had, indeed, punted Prost of course in Japan _on purpose_
he left himself open to such charges forever more. 

>-- 
>    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
>Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
> Technical Writer |   Be kind to me, I think I'm suffering from angst.

       +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
       Brian Jackson    Amiga Networking Group, Commodore-Amiga Inc.
                        bj@cbmvax.commodore.com
     {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj    or   networking@cbmvax.commodore.com
                       uva uvam vivendo varia fit 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport