HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:14:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct16.161436.27040
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <Bw6Bu1.D71@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.162722.3740@afterlife.ncsc.mil> mssmith@afterlife.ncsc.mil (M. Scott Smith) writes:
># Out of curiosity, is there any way to protect oneself against a bear
># (besides taking preventive measures; let's assume you're hiking and you
># come across a bear and s/he's not too terribly pleased about it)?
># ...
># (I'm actually serious about the aerosol can..  Would something be effective
># against a bear attack, blinding the bear so you could run away, or would
># it just tick off the bear?)
>
>Scott, there is just such a product on the market.  It's called "Bear Guard".
>It comes in a aerosol can, and the active ingredient is capiscum (sp?)
>which is derived from pepper.  Some call it "pepper spray".  The spray
>is very effective if you can apply it soon enough.  The spray is touted
>as being harmless in that the victim is not harmed in any permanent
>fashion (but they or it are in agony for about 20 minutes).
>
>Regards,
>Tom

I can believe that it is effective, but will how will it deal with 
the momentum of 350-400 lbs of bear moving at 20mph?  If its range is
less than 10ft, you are nearly within a swipe and certainly there must
be a 1/4 second before it affects the bear, IF you get it into its
face.  I'm dubious.

However, how about just a noisemaker?  Starter's pistol?  Marine
flares?  Of course this last would be great in the tinderbox forests
of the NW!

-andy
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: An Insight
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:40:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <122440193@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein) writes:
>> The planet is a lot like your body...
>
>But in a larger scale also different.  If we vanished, in 50 million
>years the planet would be doing just fine -- geologically and
>biologically -- and our only traces would be buried fossils.

Yes, I think I have to retract the notion that we are capable of eliminating
all life from the planet.  It's not likely.  I'm not even sure we're capable
of eliminating all human life -- 99% maybe, but not all.   As T. S. Elliot
says, "that't the way the world goes out, not with a bang but a whimper."

But humanity armed and confident with technology, reminds me of a drunk
psychopath waving a gun -- dangerous at best.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Neophyte tent groundsheet question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 13:10:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.220637.2288@tellab5.tellabs.com>, jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:
> A beginner's question (apologies if there's an FAQ for this group):
> 
> What's the best way to keep dry when sleeping on the floor of
> a relatively cheap tent?  Most books suggest a plastic groundcloth 
> under the tent, but a few say that the nylon/cotton will wick up 
> water that might get trapped between the floor and groundcloth and 
> you should put the plastic inside on the floor.  A friend who used 
> to do Civil War reenactments says to lay down a layer of straw but 
> that's less than practical.  I have three (high density) pads but 
> they don't help if you roll off.  Consensus?  Thanks.

And the answer is YES!

Seriously, though, if you have a tent that you want to protect the
floor from being damaged, then you want to put a ground cloth
under the tent.  This also helps to keep the floor of the tent
from getting wet from moisture in the ground, so you can pack the
tent without having to wait for it to dry.  One word of caution,
be sure to keep the groundcloth under the tent, if it stick out
it will likely help to form a small lake under your tent.

If you don't care about floor being damaged, and you are in no
hurry to have it packed up to get an early start the next day,
put the ground cloth inside the tent, and fold up the edges to 
form a tub.  This way you can have a small stream of water run
around your tent and you stay reasonably dry.

Me, I don't like wet sleeping bags, and I like to pack a dry tent,
so I have a three ply floor - Plastic drop cloth outside, tent floor,
plastic drop cloth inside.  The outside cloth is a 2 mil cheap
piece of plastic that I use primarily as a vapor barrier, and
doesn't weigh much at all.

Marc
From: omar@az.stratus.com (Omar Stoltzfus)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Coyotes (was Re: Wolves)
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:50:07 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct6.170216.12384@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard  
Ottolini) writes:
> In article <1992Oct6.013334.10817@eos.arc.nasa.gov> jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov  
(Jeffrey Mulligan) writes:
> >This mention of wolves reminded me I wanted to ask something
> >about coyote behavior.  I just returned from a trip to New Mexico
> >during which I spent 3 days in the Pecos Wilderness area (thanks
> >to all the NM net readers who sent me advice!).  Anyway, the first
> 
> New Mexico?  California is full of coyotes.  I encounter them jogging in the
> Stanford and L.A. foothills on a monthly basis.

Huh?  Jogging coyotes?  Only in California :)
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:08:46 GMT
Subject: Trip report:  Continental Divide hike
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: barkdoll@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Edwin Barkdoll)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Animals (summary)
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <80455@ut-emx.uucp> psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee) writes:
>In article <1992Sep21.230344.9378@ncar.ucar.edu> sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
>>Me, put me down as a white tiger. Rare (unfortunately, thought to be
>>extinct in the wild), exotic, powerful, mysterious, sleek, and fuzzy,
>>too. What could be better?
>
>We all hope that by the time you are reincarnated as a white tiger,
>they won't be extinct in the wild anymore.

	The white tiger is a "garden variety" orange tiger with 2
white alleles -- the term extinction isn't really applicable.

> I certainly wouldn't 
>want to be reincarnated as a zoo resident, no matter how beautiful
>or fuzzy I was!

	Here's what R.L. Tilson, Species Coordinator, Siberian Tiger
Species Survival Plan, MN Zoo says about white tigers:

"White tigers are an aberration artificially bred and proliferated by
a few zoos, private breeders and circus folks, who do this for
economic rather than conservation reasons."  _Zoo Biology_ 11:71-73
(1992)

Flames to Editor of the above journal.

Edwin Barkdoll
barkdoll@cattell.psych.upenn.edu
eb3@world.std.com
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: neophyte tent grounds
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:42:39 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 10-13-92 BECCA wrote:

BI suggest a space blanket (if you have a 2 person tent)...
B
Bit is very light...
B
Bit is waterproof....
B
Bit is very durable...
B
Bit folds wonderfully small and fits in your backpack...
B
Bit serves as an emergency blanket too...

And its insulating properties would be useful underneath your
tent too.

                   |
...eliot          -*-              Postlink: ->CHANNEL1 [R/O okay]
                   |               Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA 10:53 pm, Tuesday 10/13/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:07:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <81527@ut-emx.uucp> psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee) writes:

>	Anyway, he was on land which had been leased to someone who
>apparently didn't know he had a right to be on, and was promptly 
>shot, no questions asked (survived, leg wound I think). So, watch
>those private lands...
>
>--Peter

There seems to be a great tradition of shooting trespassers in the US.
Is it *really* true that in Texas you some sort of "right" to do so?
i.e. that the police will not come and take you away if you do it?
I have seen this asserted but I can barely believe it. I am assuming,
of course, that said trespasser is not threatening violence in any way.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Coyotes (was Re: Wolves)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:24:59 GMT

In article <Oct07.153818.65054@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.144257.18456@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>>
>>Holy shit.  Were they wearing lycra?  Oh no, ... I bet they take
>>their human pets with them when they go camping too ... a living
>>hell, coyotes in lycra sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya,
>>with their pet humans running around unchained playing Lynard Skynard.
>
>It's the drunk male coyotes that you really want to avoid.
>
Also the ones that hunt rabbits with AK-47's.  Blackpowder and bow
hunting type coyotes aren't so bad.

Oh yes, there are ones wearing Acme brand jet packs.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)
Subject: Re: Neophyte tent groundsheet question
Reply-To: damouth@wrc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:22:29 GMT

In article 28940@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead) writes:
>  I use a groundsheet as you do, larger than the
>base of the tent, but on the outside, with the excess tucked up
>under the rain fly (no part of it can stick out from the fly).  

That's the first time I've heard that approach mentioned.
Interesting!  What keeps a windstorm from untucking it during the
night? What kind of tent?  My fly is well separated from the tent
except at the four corners.
---
/Dave
David E. Damouth
Xerox Webster Research Center
damouth@wrc.xerox.com
voice: 716-422-3186
fax: 716-265-7133
From: egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu (Dania M. Egedi)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcou
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:09:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.93398

In article <93274@netnews.upenn.edu>, egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu (Dania M. Egedi) writes:
|> 
|> He also did a hachet job on my friend Francois, who organized the trip.
|> Personal dynamics, I suppose, but it does serve to remind one that whoever writes
|> the history wins.....


Sorry to follow up to myself, but this was generating enough interest
that I thought some might be interested in the following (although I realize
the the majority of posts were flames about geography....)

From ceh@zoo.uct.ac.za (currently working with Francois in South Africa)

The true story is close to the one of the kid with a rusty 22.  Joe Kanes
version of the story is actually very far from the truth.  Francois book is
out and it is titled Rafting The Amazon.  The Amazon starts as three main
tributaries high in the Peruvian Andes and does indeed run through Shinning
Path territory.  Francois has still not done the third tributary, the
Marinon, because it goes through the heart of the Shining Path country.
Joe's book is mostly fiction and there have been many stories in magazines
by the other members of the trip that dispute many things he claims as true.


 - Dania
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dania Egedi, IRCS Research Programmer		egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu
Room 400C, 3401 Walnut St.			work:  (215) 898-0365
Philadelphia, PA 19104

"One sign of an impending nervous breakdown is the belief 
that one's work is terribly important"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Toddler in High Sierra
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:32:29 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Something else I just remembered that can make things easier for the child.
The previous remark reminded me of it when he said "...more of a steering
challenge than propulsion...".  Rig the canoe so that the child can sit in
the center of the boat.  That way, it is not so far down to the water level
for them to reach.  (And you will have a little better control. ;^) )  As
the child grows, you can move him/her closer to the bow.  The idea is to keep
it fun for them so they will want to go again, again, again, again.....

Also, if the child is small enough to need to be near the middle to reach the
water without leaning out too far or using too unwieldy a paddle, he/she is
then also that much closer if you have to grab for him/her suddenly.

Bill

********************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
********************************************************************************

Bill Blohm     

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
From: R1SCM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dr. Steven C. Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: rain/ski pants
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:10:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Akron

In article <1992Oct14.153142.956@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
millere@frith.msu.edu writes:
 
>I need to purchase some rain pants that I can use for biking in
>rainy weather as well as use as wind break for X-country skiing.
>I don't want to wear rubberized cloth.
>Any suggestions?
>Thanks
>Eric Miller, Biomechanist in Training
 
I would like a similar recommendation, but in my case it is simply that I would
like to have a pant that will allow me to kneel and sit on wet areas without
ruining my day!  Specifically, I seem to get soaked knees and butt any time
my troop sets up or tears down camp in the rain/snow.  A best product would
be durable and not to hot in the warmer than freezing rain weather.
 
I currently have a pair of waterproof pants, but they are ideal only for the
coldest temperatures.
 
steve myers, scoutmaster, Troop 1
 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 6/20/91] Leopold's post Distilled Wisdom (15/28)	XYZ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 11:20:10 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Toddler in High Sierra
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:10:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

About the kid in the canoe...don't plan on x miles per day.  Rather, plan on
lots of stops and the like so they can get out and explore.  When they get
tired, let them lay down and sleep in the canoe.  That is the time for you 
to go for distance.

Also, get or chop down a paddle to their size.  That way, they have their 
_own_ paddle.

Bill
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcou
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:42:16 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Oct13.201713.15897@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt) writes:
>In article <14900@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
|writes:
||> 
||> O.K. we've got marijuana growers in California and bootleggers in Kentucky
||> so far.  Let me add another data point.
||> 
||> I read a book awhile back called "Running the Amazon".  I don't recall the
||> authors name but it's an incredibly fasinating book about a group of people
||> that "ran" the entire length of the Amazon river from it's source at over
||> 17k' to the mouth at ocean.  During the trip they came across some sections
||> that had never been charted that had some incredible rapids.  At one point
||> their journey led them to a sandbar where their camp was broken by gunshots
||> over their heads.  They were in the heart of sandanistan guerrilla territory
||> and their coca fields.  They were captured but managed to negotiate their
||> escape by giving up three six packs of beer.  I've never been in a kayak
||> in my life but thoroughly enjoy this book.  
||> 
||> -- 
||> +==========================================================================+
||> | John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
||> | johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
||> +==========================================================================+
|
|Hmmm.  I'm surprised that the Sandanistas didn't drink the beer during
|the negotiations.  Seems like the explorers has a pretty lousy negotiating
|position.  Maybe this illuminates another reason why the Sandanistas are
|no longer in power in Nicaragua.  BTW, what were they doing way down
|there in South America?

OK, OK, I give up.  So it wasn't Sandanista's.  I don't recall exactly what
this group of people were other than they were some organized guerilla group
with lots of guns and didn't particularly care for a group of people in
kayaks floating through their "territory".  It's been a few years since
I've read "Running the Amazon".  Yes, it was by Kane, who incidently prior
to this trip, was a San Franciscan journalist and had no kayaking experience.
The other kayakers were "world class" and Kane didn't actually do any kayaking
until a series of events force him to either get in a kayak or scrap the
whole trip.  Remember, this trip had never been done before, and in fact,
another separate attempt that was taking place at the same time was aborted
because a couple of the members of that party were killed in a particularly 
tough section of the river.  Again, I highly recommend this book.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
From: mulberry@triton.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Pedometers
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:04:01 GMT
Expires: Sun, 25 Oct 92 06:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I have been thinking about purchasing a pedometer in the
near future for backpacking.  I had one many years ago
but it didn't last long.  I think it was REI.

Can anybody tell me what are some good pedometers on the 
market, where I might get them, and price ranges?

Thanks.


=====================================================================
Bill  (mulberry@triton.unm.edu)   || The secret of the greatest    ||
C. O. P.                          || fruitfulness and the greatest ||
U. N. M.                          || enjoyment of existence is to: || 
Albuquerque, N. M.                || Live Dangerously! -Nietzsche  ||
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Mummy vs. rectangular ??
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:04:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

I have friends who absolutely will not get in a mummy bag.  I have others
who will, but are glad to get out.  Then there is me, I love them.  I grew
up with a mummy bag, which might have something to do with it.  Once I get
comfortable I don't move around much.  They are restrictive and when you
roll over the bag tends to go with you.  So, if you roll over onto your
belly, then you have the bag on your back, as it were.  However, if you do
as I do, then with some practice it is quite as easy to roll around in a
mummy as it is a rectangular bag.  Get a mummy, but not to your size.  Get
the next size up.  For example, I am 73.5" and I have a bag that is more like
78".  The extra room allows me to roll around easily.  I have a fitted foot
area (I forget the term for this) where the bag rises up so that when you
are on your back the bag does not push your feet down flat (i.e. ____/-\ )
and I won't go back to the older flat style.  With my bag being larger, I
have all the room I want in it.  You can't, of course, roll up fetally in
a mummy and have to be intimate indeed to have another person in there with
you.  (Can't do anything, of course, but for emergency warmth, and it will
be TIGHT!).
As to a three season bag...I use mine year around, sleeping under the stars
usually.  In the summer, if too hot I just sleep on it with the sides pulled
into place, not zipped.  Spring and fall I control the temperature with the
zipper.  Winter I zip up but I have slept with no more than a ground sheet
spread out and my bag and been comfortable.  My bag is rated down to -38 F
or some such, I forget.  But I do use it year round.  I think you have to
consider using it only zipped up, in which case the temp rating is the guide
as listed on the box.  But if you use it like I do, adjusting the zipper for
the temp then you can use it year round.
I think the vital point is to find a good one, but don't get the one for
your size but rather the next one up.  Especially if you have only used a
rectangular one up to now and toss and turn a lot.
Hope this is of some help.

Bill Blohm

********************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
********************************************************************************

Bill Blohm     

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
                           
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Subject: Re: City Skygazing (was Re: An Insight)
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:40:59 GMT

In article <25762@oasys.dt.navy.mil> oreagan@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William O J,eagan) writes:
>I felt a bit suspicious looking though, standing in front of my house
>at night with my binoculars.
>Bill O

But not so much as I feel poking around neighbors' yards with a flashlight
looking for owls and possums!  Though I rarely do that before midnight,
when they are hopefully sleeping.

chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry