From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:45:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: vincent2.viking.721891549
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <Bxrvs1.3AH@scylax.uucp> scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET writes:

#Waiting him out is not safe.  He may be waiting for his mate or mates.
#Or you may crack up under continuous stress.  And the longer the
#perp sees that you are not tough enough.  The more he can think he
#can rush you, and succeed!.  Why should I take a chance.  If he is 
#alone,  ooops! I was wrong.  If he isn't, ooops! I am dead.  Can I be 
#expecte to take additonal risk, imagined or not, for his sake.  More 
#scenarios...

[ deleted for brevity ]

#I know many of you will say BLAM. BLAM BLAM!.  That is what the instinct
#tells us.  I personally feel that shooting is the safe way to go.  But 
#in all these cases there is not (yet) lethal force being offered, as 
#the rule goes.  Can these be exceptions to the rule?  Is there 
#a way not to shoot without takuing additional risk.
#I assume the good guy doesn't know how to control an unwilling body
#forcibly like police do.  Experts speak.  

	I'm hardly an expert, but as I recall it is not necessary for
lethal force to be offered.  It is, rather, necessary for you to be in
fear of your life or the lives of others.  It's a vital difference, as
this is what the DA will look at when he decides to prosecute or not.

	In my opinion, shooting somebody is the last resort, but is
quite often the safest thing to do.  If my life is in danger, or
that of another I'm willing to protect, I see no reason not to fire,
and it's the perceptions of a reasonable person in that situation
that determine if I'm justified.  In your examples given above, I see
where a fear of your life exists from not firing.  This is a legal
swamp, but I suspect you would be justified in shooting in any of them.

	I also suspect that a perp, confronted, who makes no effort to
submit to orders or leave the area, is still a threat and perhaps more
of one as he's willing to place his life on the line for no apparent
reason.  Thus, he cares little for life, even his own, and quite likely
has some friends waiting to help him.

	I remember a thing known as "Turkish Revenge."  Basically, if
you shot somebody below the waist it wasn't considered attempted murder
but only assault with a deadly weapon.  While I strongly discourage
aiming for a knee or something like that, in these situations it might
bear discussing whether a DA would consider it attempted murder or if
it could be considered a method of stopping a perp and ending the threat.
I assume you will need to prove that it was an intentional shot and not
accidental, and the DA will try to smear you handily, but would it be an
option that the jury would be sypathetic to?  There is the real question.

	[MODERATOR: Let's underscore right away what said jury would
	 hear, then you be the judge about sympathy:  "So, Mr. Sorenson,
	 you DECIDED to shoot my poor client in the kneecap, rendering
	 unto him a permanently disabling wound with extensive pain and
	 suffering.  If you had time to decide this, then did you really
	 feel you were under threat of immediate bodily harm? In fact,
	 sir, your own action demonstrates that at that moment you did 
	 not feel that deadly force was warranted, contrary to what you
	 claimed earlier.  Which is it REALLY, Mr. Sorenson?"  Let's not
	 even speculate about the electronic-age nightmare of "Does this
	 printout look familiar to you, Mr. Sorenson?  Will you read aloud
	 to the jury the part where you describe something called ``Turkish
	 Revenge'' in which you describe how it might be desirable to wound
	 someone just like you did to my client."]

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >