HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 24 Dec 92 13:18:14 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec22.203903.26699@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> : Which are not nearly as integrated into the system as the Amiga's
> : screens are, and therefore, quite a bit less useful.

> You're quite wrong about that.  The Windows solutions are extremely well
> integrated, and have excellent keyboard, menu, and panel access to the

    So you can scroll one screen down to reveal part of the one below
    it? And applications can use the OS to create split screens? Is
    that what you're talking about, or are you just setting yourself
    up for yet another "oh, I misread"?

> If you're talking about extending real estate, it's still a half-baked,
> if fast, solution, as screens are limited by Chip RAM.  Put a high-color paint

    Half-baked? It's been working without the users seeing a need for
    change for the last, what, 7 years? Funny idea of half-baked that
    you have there.

    What we have is a concept that fits the hardware like a glove,
    which provides a variety of benefits. One of which happens to be
    this "extending real-estate" thing. The concept does not live or
    die based on the real-estate benefit, so even now when huge
    Workbench screens can be created, we still have screens.

    As an aside, I think it's a shame that CBM don't figure out a way
    to let external graphics boards be just another "screen" in the
    system list.

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:23:38 GMT

In <1992Dec31.175534.4724@pcnntp.apple.com> Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams) writes:
>No, it doesn't do better than the Quadra.  You're taking two entirely 
>different situations and comparing them.  Show me an Amiga that can do 640 
>x 480 8-bit video animations at 30 fps when updating every pixel on every 
>frame.  This requires a memory bandwidth of over 9 MB/sec.  It's my 
>understanding that the A4000's (the top of the line Amiga) bandwidth into 
>chip memory is only 7 MB/sec, so it couldn't do this due to hardware 
>limitations.

You forget that the Mac does not do that either (although it might be
possible theoretically). The limit is currently not the bandwidth to
video memory but the CPU that unpacks compressed video data.

>Yes, what actually is the bandwidth into the A4000's video memory?  If 
>it's not at least 9 MB/sec., the A4000 can't animate 640x480x8 at 30 fps.

Fortunately, a 640x480 anim doesn't necessarily alter all pixels between
frames.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: UI Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 02:02:13 GMT

In article <jbickers.0m02@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>    What worthwhile PC OS has programs with consistent user
>    interfaces?

Windows and OS/2 seem to do this pretty well.  Hmm, that was _too easy_.

>    Also, with Snap or PowerSnap, it is easy to cut and paste from one
>    application to another. God knows how you do it under Windows or
>    OS/2.

Well, I'm God, and I'll tell you: it's called a CLIPBOARD. oooOOOOoooohh!
With OS/2, I can cut and paste between ANY OS/2, Windows, or DOS 
program (even windowed ones)  I think it is pretty neat.

>    The Amiga has better GUI performance than most systems mentioned
>    here, except maybe the Archimedes.

That depends on the hardware lergely, does it not?  I'd bet a mega
Gateway 486/66 with a LocalBus video of ATI Graphics Ultra Pro would
have a damned fast Windows for OS/2 performance.
>
>*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: Monitors for the A4000???
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:43:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.134142.25840@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> keithc@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Keith Christopher) writes:

>I also am looking for a monitor to get the most out of a 4000. I was leaning
>toward a 3fg from NEC any input ?? 

In order to get the most out of any monitor to be used with the A4000, the
best choice is really an A1960 multisync or one of the forthcoming quadsyncs. 
If 15kHz downward compability is not a concern (ie. you have a 108x series
RGB at your disposal, or you don't intend to do video work), you have
a vast assortment to choose from.

>I also have a concern. I just sold my 2500 and want a 4000. Is now the time
>to buy >?????

Given the recent power-up deal and the bundling of DPaint and ADPro, I'd
say definitely.

>I hate moving to an expensive system and then have something new come out and
>it's now not the latest.

With the exception of the A4000T and the A4000 siblings which will reportedly
be released in the next couple of months, the A4000 is certainly a good bet
for longevity. It may not be technically possible or even feasible to upgrade
to future graphics capabilities, but with RTG, this is of limited concern
in the long run. 

>How is software downward compat with 2.0 stuff ?

Very good and then some :).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: Tandy Unveils 16-Million-Color CD-ROM Multimedia system
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:31:36 GMT

In article <BzLGBw.J22@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <1h2qfkINNjg9@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jdutka@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Dutka) writes:
>>In article <BzKosp.2zF@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>>   It looks like Commodore really is going to be the last major personal
>>>computer company to bring out a desktop computer with a CD-ROM drive.  Really
>>>pathetic.
>>
>>You mean the CDTV (A500)?
>
>   The CDTV isn't a computer.  Commodore said so.

Ok, let me use Marc Barrett style logic to conclude some other things:

1) CDTV isn't dead. Commodore said so.
2) CDTV is a computer. Until I am given proof that CDTV is not a computer,
   CDTV is a computer in my eyes.
3) Looks like Apple is going to be the last major personal computer company
   to bring out a desktop computer with preemptive multitasking OS (ignoring
   A/UX.. Marc Barrett logic here remember). How pathetic.
4) IBM just cut R&D spending by $1 billion, and is laying off lots of
   employees. IBM stock is at its lowest level in over 10 years. Therefore,
   IBM is doomed.
4a) Invest in IBM? You might as well burn your paychecks.
5) There is no software for the Thinking Machine CM-5 to do my taxes.
   Therefore, the Thinking Machine sucks.

>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

Francis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:49:05 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Dec22.153227.19928@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Michael van Elst (mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
>:
>: >No offense, but although screens are a cute feature, I prefer windowing
>: >systems, where each window can be dragged horizontally as well as vertically,
>: >and applications have consistent user interfaces and know how to talk to each
>: >other.
>:
>: Hmm. That would be a problem if screens were the only feature of the GUI.
>: On the Amiga you have screens _and_ windows and wether programs have a
>: consistent user interface or can talk to each other doesn't depend on
>: being on an extra screen or not.
>:
>
>I disagree.  Why is it, then, that Amiga programs *don't* have consistent
>user interfaces?  IMHO, screens are useful on the Amiga for two reasons.
>First, they are a speed optimization, which isn't necesary on systems with
>decent GUI performance. 

I wouldn't say so...it is a definate advantage (other than speed) to beable
to have a unique palette for eache screen, other wise you end up w/ the
hideous palette mapping like on the Macs.


> Second, some applications need to work at certain
>screen resolutions, and this wouldn't be the case if the Amiga had DIG.

Well its quite handy to have a 320x200 screen (game/paint prog, etc...) and
also have a 1280x512 CAD screen at the same time....and as far as performance
goes on the Amigas GUI, I believe from experience that you would be hard
pressed to beat the speed of the Amigas Windowing.




>
>:
>: Michael van Elst
>:
>--
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:09:14 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec27.203836.28994@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> Yet they would not and do not run on Peter's $199 512K Amiga with no HD,

    As several people have already posted, text editors, comms
    programs, games, demos, MOD players, paint programs, word
    processors, the applications most used on Amigas, WILL run on a
    512KB machine.

    In fact, in some cases it is to one's advantage to be using a
    512KB 1 disk-drive machine.

> which is what we were talking about.  This discussion would have been moot
> several articles ago if you hadn't twisted it around.

    Ha ha! Funny, I thought it was you who introduced some irrelevant
    crap about the Atari 800 into this thread.

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 27 Dec 92 19:32:08 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec26.205020.14463@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):
> John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:

> :     PKZIP, the program that has been held up for a long period because
> :     of hardware bugs in '486 machines? GOOD example.

> No, the one that's been out for a while, Version 1.1.  And yes, it is a
> good example.

    Does 1.1 contain '486 specific code, eh? I know 2.0 is supposed
    to, but 1.1 is so old that I thought it only knew up to the 386.

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bill "I Scream for Ice Cream" Gates
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:43:49 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <72152@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>There's a new biography on Gates coming out. The title, as you'd expect,
>>is "Gates." This looks a little more in-depth and fair rather than "Ha
>>ha, look at the geeks" like "Hard Drive" was. There was one picture of
>>Gates that had me on the floor, though. Mucho geeky. One of his old
>>girlfriends wasn't bad, though.
> 
> I have the biography of Gates called "Hard Drive", is this a separate
> book?
> 
> Anyway, it doesn't take Gates to make Gates look bad.  All you need to
> do is read interviews with him. Make no mistake, the guy is a genius,
> but he's not particularly likable, nor a honorable guy.

	Microsoft could probably go down in history in terms of being
	in the right place at the right time with a pretty mediocre
	product (MS-DOS).  I think their main expertise has been marketing
	not actually software technology.  (This is not a flame).

	I have been using Windows for a time now and I have to admit, it
	does just about everything you need it to do.  It's just not
	particularly intuitive or friendly about it.

	I'd like to try OS/2, but since our computer people won't support
	it, I'd have to buy it myself.

	 
> 
> TomK@cup.portal.com
> Tom Krotchko
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: wsc1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (William S Chou)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11
Reply-To: wsc1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (William S Chou)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:38:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.171030.21984@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
>:
>: 	Wrong, the Atari 400 and the C64, with all their screen interrupts,
>: can not display multiple screens like the Amiga can...
>:
>
>No David, *you* are wrong.  The Atari 400 had hardware very similar to Copper.
>If a full multitasking OS were feasible on that machine, it would be trivial
>to implement Amiga-like screens on it.
>

This is a futile argument since Dale Luck who designed the original
Amiga gfx chips was also the designer of the Atari chips.  So the
don't you think it feasible that the Atari 400 chips may have some of the
capabilities of the Amiga?  On the other hand, trying to add Amiga screens
to generic dos boxes would be damn near impossible.

>:
>: an Atari ST can do a 
>: Boing! demo, but not like the Amiga can. You have obviously never used an
>: Amiga...
>: 		
>
>Ha.  Even that same Atari 400 had a Boing demo that was almost as good as the

Boing was a trivial example of what the amiga chipset could do.
I think there was also a C64 version of boing!, but I think CGA Boing! was
out of the question way back when.  8)

>original Amiga one.  And please stop telling me what I have and have not
>used.  I used an Amiga for three years in college.
>--
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:06:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.160521.4069@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
>:
>: > So is your claim that a 512K Amiga can run "current feature level"
>: > applications.  So my analogy holds perfectly, while you're just whining.
>:
>:     Absurd. A 512KB Amiga can and does run such applications.
>:
>
>Right.  You think a 512KB Amiga (with no virtual memory, of course), could
>ever run something like Word?  FrameMaker?  Quicken?  Improv?  Paradox?
>Falcon 3?  Ultima Underworld?  Think again, denizen.

   Ever heard of overlays Jerry? Did you know that a very popular computer
used to run applications of this calibre using only 140k more ram than
the Amiga?

  It seems you are the one who needs to think again if you think it is
impossible to write an application like Word to run in 512k. 

>:
>: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
>:
>--
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:25:17 GMT

In article <C01HAx.LGq@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>   I can think of one right off the bat.  Commodore's problem is that the bulk
>of their sales are to these electronically-ignorant individuals who use their
                              ======================                               

>computers as home computers.  Even the bulk of A3000 and A4000 sales are to
>people who use them as home computers.  I would even bet that the majority of
>Commodore's Amiga UNIX systems went to individuals who used them as home
>computers.

GASP! There you go again..... What a horrible thought! People using Amigas as home
computers! Why... why they might use them for... for something of their OWN! Oh my
God Marc you're absolutely right! Those idiots at Commodore, selling computers
to PEOPLE, just ordinary PEOPLE, instead of corporate fat cats and institutions.
What a bunch of dummies!

NOT!

>
>   Commodore needs to sell far more systems to corporations and educational
>institutions, that would be responsible with the systems.  Apple and Compaq
>don't have the problems that Commodore has, because the bulk of their sales
>are to companies and institutions that a responsible with in-warantee systems,
>and don't attempt to have the manufacturer pay for botched work.  This dilutes
>any losses from sales of systems to individuals who do try to get the 
>manufacturer to pay for botched upgrades.
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

Marc you're impossible. I can just hear you also saying that Commodore is 
irresponsible for NOT letting users upgrade their machines! They are screwed
(as far as you are concerned) no matter what they do. Essentially what you are
saying is that those inferior low life "home computer users" are scum who don't
use their computers properly. Only people annointed by some huge company are 
fit to use them. What crap! I am a home computer user and I think I know how
to care for my machine. Granted Commodore needs to make a bigger push into the
big markets of education and business. But for Christ's sake, how can you fault
them for selling machines to home computer users? Nobody else does anymore
as far as I can tell. 



Darrell Leland
dleland@nmsu.edu

 
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32270 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19149
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 28 Dec 92 04:25:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>Damnit, Commodore, how long would it take to put AmigaGuide docs for all the
>workbench tools online?

Actually, I wouldn't want to waste the space on my hard drive (even though i
do have 160 megs) with help files for AmigaDos.. consider that all commands
have a help template which if you understand the basic context, is all that's
necessary for most of them.  Perhaps online help for Ed, and Edit (probably
the most cryptic line editor i've EVER seen..) but i can't think of much else
you would need it for.  

As it is, i've got freakin (who put the freak in Amigaguide?) .guide files
coming out my wazoo from EVERYTHING i've been getting lately.  PowerVisor, SAS
C 6 (damn, i still have to get that registration card in..), Mostra, Cerca (a
file finder), ToolManager, etc.. etc..

I wish someone would come up with a .guide management system... some way to
put all your .guide files somewhere and be able to view them from a common key
sequence..
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 4 Jan 1993 02:30:59 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <monster.05y1@mbear.apana.org.au> monster@mbear.apana.org.au (Martin Ozolins) writes:
>Checked any Mainframe Operating Systems ?
>EXEC-8 ( UniSYS ) and the one that runs on IBM Mainframes both have VM and are
>both Realtime Systems.

That is true.

>And yes, when using the VM the performance drops by a massive amount even on
>Mainframes, so imagine how slow things are on PCs using VM.
>
>More Memory is far better than VM but sometimes there is no choice

You see, though, that's the point.  There _IS_ a choice for personal
computers--they very rarely have a NEED for VM.  There are 64-megabyte
Zorro III cards available.  On mainframes, memory is eaten at a much
higher rate, it becomes more necessary to have Virtual Memory
capability.  After all, we're talking about a single-user OS here.

My argument is that real-time-based personal computers haven't reached
the point where the architecture REQUIRES that VM exist.  I don't
think it will.  And as long as there are people developing real-time
operating systems, there will be operating systems that don't offer
real-time killers like VM.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (David L. Miller)
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Organization: Washington State University Tri-Cities
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:37:29 GMT

In article <1hjpouINN43b@gap.caltech.edu>, andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
|> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
|> 
|> 	As for going to my closest dealer and having them 
|> open it for me, mine is 25 miles away, how about yours?
|> 
Hey, I got you beat there!  By about 200 miles :( :( :(

|> --Andre
|> 
|> -- 
|>              Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)

-- 
*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller                       Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst      BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities    UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road                          
Richland, WA 99352                       Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************