HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marshall@marshall.Eng.Sun.COM (Ralph Marshall - Sun BOS SunLabs)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: media permanence
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:26:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: marshall.east.sun.com

In article <opn8uoc@sgi.sgi.com> gsk@khaki.asd.sgi.com (George S. Kong) writes:
>why are we arguing about permanence of the media itself?
>
[suggestion that we make copies before the media itself decays]
>
>thus, the information can be made as permanent as you like.
>the permanence of the physical media only determines how
>much copying you have to do. this is not true of other media.
>
>isn't this obvious?
>

The problem has already been beaten to death here, and the main
concern is that the digital version may be in perfect shape but that
the proprietary encoding scheme and/or the necessary reader will
simply not be available to the genera public 50 years down the road.
This is in contrast to (for examply) the 50 year old negative of my
mother, parents grandparents and great-grandparents which I discovered
last year and have made new prints from without any difficulty.

The only reason I'm posting is to point out that a previous message
(author forgotten) had what may be a very good response to this
general category of problems and I didn't want it to pass unremarked.
Namely, if the storage medium includes an integral (and it must be
nearly impossible to separate the two or people will) reader which is
cheap enough to package with each copy you have a much better chance
of being able to reconstruct an image which has spent half a century
ignored in a box somewhere.  I know of no such device on the market,
but that is a much more tractable technical problem then the issue of
how to reconstruct images without such an aid.  So, if the photo-CD
market could somehow generate a built-in CD reader which somehow
produces a visible image which contains the same resolution as the
binary version, I'd _consider_ going for it.  Until then, I'm saving
the prints and negatives away so the (as yet hypothetical)
great-grandchildren can have a chance of seeing life in the good old
days.
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Ricoh KR-10 Super questions
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:35:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.163836.25647@javelin.sim.es.com> rspeirs@javelin.sim.es.com (Ron Speirs) writes:
>In article <77563@ut-emx.uucp> lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bruce G. Bostwick) writes:
>>First of all, my flash sync is about 40-50 ms late, causing the bottom
>>1/4 frame or so to be clipped at sync speed which is 1/125. (OK, OK,
>>yes, I have a rather fast shutter! ;-)  Does anyone out there happen
>>to know how to adjust this sync so I can use sync speed for the flash?
>>
>I don't think that your flash sync is out of adjustment.  Many cameras have
>a maximum shutter speed for flash sync of 1/60.  Shooting flash at faster
>speeds will result in part of the frame being unexposed.

I think Mr. Spiers is probably right--though he's probably off on how
far out of adjustment the camera is.

If it's the 'bottom quarter' that's dark, then he has a vertically
travelling shutter and 1/125 is a reasonable sync speed.  Olympus, for
instance, uses a horizontal travel and syncs at 1/60.

If the 'bottom 1/4' is dark, and the shutter speed is 1/125, then the
total exposure is 8 milliseconds, and the timing is out by 2 ms.  It
will depend on which way the curtains travel that determine which one
is in error.  It could be that a downward moving first curtain hasn't
cleared the frame when the X-sync is fired or an early upward-moving
second curtain has started too soon.  Either way, his analysis of the
underlying problem is sound.

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: franz@cs.washington.edu (Franz G. Amador)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: More 4x5 questions
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:30:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

A couple of weeks ago I posted some novice 4x5 questions and was
overwhelmed by the number of helpful replies I got - thank you all.
Here's a few more.

I currently have only one film holder, so now'd be the idea time to
get into the Mido system.  I plan on taking the camera (a Bender 4x5,
at last about finished) on hikes, so having small, light film holders
sounds great.  I've never actually laid eyes on them, though, and
people suggest that they're hard to load.  For those who use them,
could you see yourself loading them in a "Changing Room"-type changing
bag in the back of your car?

I saw an ad in the Adorama catalog for something called the "Pro 4x5
Focusing Hood", which looks like a lightweight aluminized cloth shaped
more or less into a tube.  One end ties around the camera back
somehow, and the other has an "elastic headband, which holds the hood
to the photographer's forehead while keeping both hands free."  Sounds
like a good design.  Has anybody used anything like this?

Lastly (uh oh) a lens question.  I currently have only a Symmar-S
210/5.6, and I'd like a 90/8.  The Nikkor 90/8 is about $200 cheaper
than the Super Angulon 90/8.  Do you get what you pay for, or are they
pretty much equivalent?  I ask because I've heard or read several
authoritative-sounding claims that all decent large-format lenses are
good enough for all but highly specialized applications.

Thanks again in advance.  I'm glad you guys still hang around this
group (so to speak) and are so willing to help beginners.

Franz Amador
franz@cs.washington.edu
{rutgers,cornell,ucsd,ubc-cs,tektronix}!uw-beaver!june!franz
From: carmela@hacktic.nl (Ay Carmela)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: About infrared photography ...
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:43:12 GMT
Organization: Hack-Tic Magazine

Can anyone give me some tips about infra red photography. I want to try
it, but I dont know anything about it.
From: ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Where can I get Photo CD services in LA (or mailorder) TODAY?
Date: 21 Aug 1992 15:21:53 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu

I just returned from a long trip holding lots of exposed slide
film (E-6 and K-14).  I'd like to turn all these into Photo CDs.

Is there any store or mailorder service which does it right now?
If so, could you tell me more -- where, what price, how many rolls
of 36 exps per CD without losing 9660 compatibility, etc.

Thanks,

        -ans.
-- 
Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu
From: jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Photography in low light?
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:38:44 GMT
Organization: Metran Technology, Tampa, Florida

fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
: In article <1992Aug19.215131.25859@clark.edu>, gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
: >>choice would be a high speed B&W.  THis summer, either Pop. Photo or Petersens
: >>Photo. had an article that mentioned T-MAX P3200 rated at EI25000 for
: >>surveillance work.  Try some T-MAX at 6400 or 12500 (and a hand-held meter
: >>that can handle the low light!).
: > 
: it's been a while since i've looked at the insert that comes with P3200, but
: i believe that processing instructions from Kodak are included up to EI12500

: The development times would be the hard part to work out, but i'll bet that
: Kodak has all ready done that for us.

Yes.  The necessary information is in Kodak Publication F-32, Kodak Tmax
Professional Films.  To get to EI 25,000 they only list development times
using Tmax developer.  Their "starting-point recommendations" are 17 1/2
minutes at 70F, but "only" 10 minutes at 85F.  I guess it takes a little
patience :-)

Jay Ts
From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Rates for freelance photographer
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:42:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: clark.1992Aug21.184211.24410
Organization: Clark College, Vancouver, Wa.  USA

In article <fred-mckenzie-200892182910@128.159.169.79> fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov (Fred McKenzie) writes:
>
>Taking candid shots of the bridal party, and at the reception, may produce
>good shots that the Pro photographer might miss.  However, you would only
>be in a position to do this if you were an invited guest.  Just don't make
>the mistake I made once.  I wanted to make candid shots as a "gift", of my
>cousin's wedding.  I also made several that duplicated some of the Pro's
>shots.  When I presented the photos to my aunt, she showed me the proofs
>from the Pro's photos, which were outstanding.  Mine were pathetic by
>comparison.  However, my tightwad aunt never ordered any from the Pro, and
>considered mine the "official" photographs.  I felt rather bad when I found
>out what she had done, and decided I wouldn't do that again!  Last I heard,
>my cousin's marriage was in trouble.  I hope it wasn't my fault.

But, on the other hand, I have done the same thing (taken photos as a gift),
and mine turned out better then the Pros (disclaimer, that isn't my opinion,
that was the opinion of the groom and bride).

Gary

-- 
-----
Gary Snow
uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: lswab@x400gate.bnr.ca (Lyndon Swab)
Subject: Re: Pentax Z1 battery life
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.,
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:05:59 GMT

>>>>> On 20 Aug 92 21:57:17 GMT, fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu said:
  fsjfz> Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu

  fsjfz> In article <1992Aug20.155107@cs.utwente.nl>,
  fsjfz> belinfan@cs.utwente.nl (Axel Belinfante) writes:

> I just started to use my third battery, so my experience is still a
> bit limited. Are there other Z1 owners/users that can confirm this
> power-hungryness? Or (hopefully) have better experience?

  fsjfz> [...]
  fsjfz>  
  fsjfz>  However, the problem is not in the camera, but rather the
  fsjfz> battery.  Not all 2CR5 batteries are created equally.  
  fsjfz> [...]
  fsjfz> etc.).  If i were you, i would make sure that you're actually
  fsjfz> using the correct battery, as Nikon owners have to do for
  fsjfz> their N6006's. (and are EOS cameras as picky? i've heard some
  fsjfz> stories to make me think so...)

  fsjfz> James Zuelow
  fsjfz> FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu

I currently have a 2CR5m in my EOS 650.  I've been told that the "m" was
intended for point-and-shoots (I can't imagine buying a $20CDN battery for
a point-and-shoot).

Nevertheless, the 2CR5m has shot about 15 rolls of film so far.  Many have
been rewound midroll and reinserted several times.  So to answer your 
question, I'd have to say that Canon's seem better with batteries.
--
Lyndon Swab     lswab@bnr.ca, (613) 763-7165, ESN 393-7165
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: K_LEPA@unhh.unh.edu (Kristen   Lepa)
Subject: Grainy B&W film?
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:40:47 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12

Is there a B&W film out there that is inherently grainy?  I know it
would help if I got a very fast film, but I like to work with slower
speeds.  When I had access to a darkroom, I just shook it up a lot, 
and surprise! it came out just perfect!  Now I have to depend on a (ugh)
lab.  Too bad the only thing I use B&W for is _nudes_...

Has anybody else noticed that B&Ws developed at labs seem to be a little
less than acceptable quality?  I always see too much contrast on what I
want greyer and too little contrast on what I want basically black and white.
Can I ask them for "custom" setting do you think?

Thanks for any help,
	-Kristen

< |/
 :o<)
< |\
From: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Qualex complaints (was Fuji E-6 labs)
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:54:15 GMT
	<1992Aug19.211600.17950@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
	<1992Aug21.125511.13202@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
	<1992Aug22.122710.3104@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: philg@martigny.ai.mit.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
In-reply-to: hasker@m.cs.uiuc.edu's message of 22 Aug 92 12:27:10 GMT


Some Qualex observations...

1) The Boston lab is their best print facility, with completely
different (100% Italian) automagic technology.  So send it to Boston
if you want good negative handling.

2) The Palo Alto E6 line evidently is pretty sloppy.  I gave some E6
to a Von's in Mammoth Lakes and I assume it went to Palo Alto where
they couldn't even print the numbers on the slide mounts properly
(there were two impressions on each slide, both uninked).

My recommendation is to send prints to Boston and slides to Fair Lawn.
My only problems ever with Kodalux (out of hundreds of rolls) are the
following: 1) two week delay in getting some prints back once (instead
of 5-7 day), 2) a few little holes in the emulsion of some Kodachrome,
for which Kodalux and Kodak have some elaborate explanation (see Photo
District News) but apparently it is a problem unique to the K14
process and does not mean that they are being sloppy.

On the other hand, my local professional lab, which charges twice as
much as Kodalux, has 1) cut through my E6 220, 2) sliced some regular
120, 3) scraped the emulsion off a frame E6 (Velvia) 120, 4) put half
moon crimps into TMAX 120, ... you get the picture.

I think Kodalux has a better E6 line than anyone this side of Los
Angeles.

Philip Greenspun
MIT Department of EE&CS
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: bbaskett@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Bill Baskett)
Subject: Re: Zone system
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:31:53 GMT


In article <BtAnou.Bw5@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, rwu@ismdqa.intel.com (Ronnie Wu ) writes:
|> 
|> 	Hi,   Can any one give a short description of what is 
|> 'zone system' ?  or is that possible ?

(I'm kind of an amateur "old phart", but I'll try anyhow.  If I hack this one
up, I'm sure somebody will save me.)

The Zone system provides the photographer with a method for managing
the process of creating a print from the time of the original visualization,
through exposure of the negative, to printing. By employing this system,
you can learn to look at a scene and judge the way that areas will be 
reproduced depending on how you expose and process. Depending on the room
that you have to work in (depends on media), you can reproduce a scene
the way that you believe you "see" it.

|> 	I am looking at this book by Ansel Adams - 'Negative'
|> (1 of the 3 bookset). I like to know how complicated this 

It can't be too complicated -- I managed it. I believe that reading the
series has greatly improved my photography (there was a lot of latitude
there though). I'd recommend it especially if you ever plan to do b&w 
darkroom. 

|> topic is before I spend $35.00 for it. I guess I could read it
|> at the book store ;-)

Does your local library have it? How about the nearest university
or college library?
 
|> 
|> 	Thanks in advance !
|> 
|> Ron
|> rwu@mattec.intel.com

I hope the thanks is warranted!
-- 
Bill Baskett, Network Manager       vx: 604 363-4635 fx: 604 363-4513
Royal Roads Military College        em: BBaskett@post.RoyalRoads.ca
Victoria, B.C.                      "this space for hire"
From: hrvoje@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Hecimovic)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: "noisy" Cannon Rebel
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:25:35 GMT
Distribution: rec.photo
Organization: Edinburgh University




Could anybody give me any advice how to get rid off bleep noise when using AF 
in Cannon Rebel. Sometimes it really annoys me, it is quite loud. What
was the reason they made it this way in the first place?
Thanx  Hrvoje


PS I must say that once it was a good experience. When I tried to take a
photo of a small bird, she responded with singing to my bleeps. The
distance was 3-4 feet.
From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: photo-developing, specifically nudes
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:36:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: clark.1992Aug14.153656.29588
Organization: Clark College, Vancouver, Wa.  USA

In article <1992Aug13.194244.23506@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>"Bias" is a peculiar word to use for an objective interest in image
>permanence.  Digital technology is irrelevant to this since the results of
>the high-end technologies are output onto ordinary photographic materials
>anyway, and tape or CD as end media rather than temporary storage for an
>image processor are even less durable than RA-4 (two years MTF for a
>cartridge tape, maybe 5 for a write-once CD?) and aimed at the same market.

You better do a little more reading there. CDs of the Audio variety (the same
variety as the PhotoCD), have a lifetime of at least 25 years (they don't have
an MTBF, because they aren't magnetic media).  If properly taken care of (eg.
kept in their cases until used, and then put right back), they will last
longer then you will.

Gary

-- 
-----
Gary Snow
uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Me and E6
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:00:20 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <224@metran.UUCP> jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts) writes:
>rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg) writes:
>: E-6 can be made in pints,
>: which just happens to be the size of my 2 roll patterson tank, and at 4-6
>: rolls per pint the chemistry stays good (IMHO) for a year as concentrates,
>
>I just want to check on something.  I was considering an E-6 gallon kit,
>but without a Jobo, and no re-use of solutions, I would only be able to
>process 16 rolls, which is really not very economical.
>Now, people are posting that the E-6 chemistry can be re-used (without
>loss of quality, I hope).  If I were to re-use the solutions twice, as
>suggested above, would the development times need to be extended, as with
>the Hobby Pac?

Yes, you do re-use. Yes, you do increase development time partway through
the life of the developers. The instructions are on the E-6 datasheet and in 
the _Color_Darkroom_Dataguide. According to the _Dataguide_, the capacity
of the developers is 33 135-36 rolls per gallon. The capacity of the
other solutions is twice that (this means that you must replace the 
developers half-way through the life of the kit -  why they didn't include
*two* bottles of each developer concentrate is beyond me).  The storage life
of mixed solutions is as follows (_Dataguide_, p.34):

Solution	full bottles (unused)	full bottles (used)	Partial bottle
1st dev		8 weeks			4 weeks			1 week
Revesal bath	8 weeks			4 weeks			1 week
Color dev	8 weeks			4 weeks			1 week
Conditioner	8 weeks			4 weeks			1 week
Bleach		24 weeks		24 weeks		24 weeks
Fixer		24 weeks		24 weeks		24 weeks
Stabilizer	24 weeks		24 weeks		24 weeks

Note that the brief life of the developers and reversal bath is a pretty
good argument for mixing up small quantities of these solutions and for
using *some* means of displacing air in the solution bottles (marbles,
inert gas, "concertina" bottles, etc.). 

Using the E-6 kit, you ought to be able to cut your E-6 costs down to about
$1.50/roll.


Steve
From: dchien@boole.seas.ucla.edu (David H. Chien)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Lithium Type 76 batt. - any?
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:51:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


     I'm looking for a longer lasting Type 76 button battery.  I'm using silver
oxides now, but my camera eats them up like Apple Jacks.  Are there lithium
replacements available?
     Thanks,
     david :)  dchien@boole.seas.ucla.edu
From: wright@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Ted Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Automatic Flash
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:53:55 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

I am looking for a flash unit for my (fully manual) Nikon F1.
Since the F1 is completely non-computerized, and I don't want a
flash with a lot of features that I can't use, most of the ones
I have looked at seem inappropriate.

I have used a Vivatar 285 quite a bit, and I like it except for its
size and weight. I am considering a Sunpak 383, since it is similar
to the Vivatar but doesn't require messing with the zoom head. (I 
usually use a 35-135 zoom lens). Are there other flashes I should
see? Is there a reason to avoid the Sunpak?

Thanks in advance, Ted Wright
  
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: 500 MM lens for Canon EOS wanted
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:56:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.154505.29923@clark.edu> gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
>In article <lmazur-130892164933@winchester.princeton.edu> lmazur@pucc.bitnet (Leszek Mazur) writes:
>>In article <92225.220540U53805@uicvm.uic.edu>, U53805@uicvm.uic.edu (Ron
>>Vyhmeister) wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for a 500 mm lens for Canon EOS camera.  If you know of any good
>>> deals, please let me know.
>>> 
>>You might want to take a look at Sigma's 500 f/7.2 AF lens.  I've been
>>satisfied with the results I've got from mine.
>
>f/7.2?!?! must be a reflex mirror lens right?

I think the  500-F/7.2 is a conventional lens.  The reflex one sees
advertised is a 600mm F/8--and costas a fraction as much.  (Perhaps I
should note here that I'm *very* happy with my Sigma 600mm F/8
reflex.)

While we're on the subject of lenses . . . 

Apparently there was quite a rage some years ago for short
catadioptrics--usually either 250mm or 300mm at F/5.6.  Does anyone
know of a company (other than Cambron) that still makes these, and
where I could find one on an OM mount, and how much they run?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: belinfan@cs.utwente.nl (Axel Belinfante)
Subject: Pentax Z1 battery life
Organization: Univ. of Twente, Dept. Informatics, Tele Informatics group
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:51:07 GMT

Maybe the following is a Frequently Posted 'Complaint'... anyways...

Since a couple of months i'm the proud owner of a Pentax Z1 with the
28-80 f/3.5-4.5 zoom, and a 70-200 f/4.5-5.6 (not complete sure about
the aperture numbers)
I'm quite happy with the camera, although some things could be improved
(as always)...

One thing i noticed is that i may be able to shoot about 20-30
films of 36 exposures, a few of them using the build-in flash, and most
of them taken using the zoom in power mode (ie. using the zoom motor),
with the same lithium 2cr5 battery.

I just started to use my third battery, so my experience is still a bit
limited. Are there other Z1 owners/users that can confirm this
power-hungryness? Or (hopefully) have better experience?
(with dutch battery prices, this power-need means about $0.50 to $0.75 
 power(battery)costs per film, where the film prices are about $5.00
(36 exposures Fuji RDP100, without developement or framing)
(prices above are not too accurate (rounded up a bit), due to lazyness
 on my side and the need to convert dutch guilders to dollars, and are
 meant mostly to give an idea of (relation between) dutch battery and
 film prices)

If someone would want other info on the Z1 (as it is still a somewhat
recent camera) let me know and i might ;-) try to respond
(no garuantees though).

By the way, are there any other Z1 users out there?

If you followup, please CC a copy to me, as i'm not sure i will be able
to read this group on a very regular basis.

Thanks for your time, regards,
Axel.
-- 
<Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl>   tel. +31 53 893774   fax. +31 53 333815
     University of Twente, Tele-Informatics & Open Systems Group
       P.O. Box 217    NL-7500 AE Enschede      The Netherlands
     "ili ne sciis ke estas neebla do ili simple faris" -- Loesje