From: arl@cs.hut.fi (Ari Lemmke)
Subject: Re: Is MINIX much better than LINUX?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<Bz76pu.AE0@cs.vu.nl>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:07:42 GMT


	Yet another Minix/Linux war? I still have "Linux is obsolete"
	ast started. It's compressed 96k ;-) and really fun to read,
	especially ast's false predicitions; newsgroup gets daily
	100-300 articles, 2100 users using mailing list system, 10-20%
	of nic.funet.fi ftp traffic is Linux related (that's monthly n GB).

In article <Bz76pu.AE0@cs.vu.nl> philip@cs.vu.nl (Philip Homburg) writes:
:   I agree, if you want to understand an operating system, start with Minix.

	I'd suggest starting with Linux. I've teached Minix
	internals to students, and had to comment multiple
	times 'eh, this is kludge' ;-)

:   If your hardware doesn't run linux, linux simply isn't an option.

	You wanted to say 'Linux is not the _only_ option'?
	Or just 'do not use Linux'? (because it's free?)

:   Amoeba support is almost removed since Amoeba moved on to a new protocol
:   which is not implemented under Minix and probably will not be implemented.

	'Amoeba support' was not nicely done. Who needs it?
	Future kludge programmers? ;-)

:   Of course these features are also offered by the Unix that runs on the
:   computers at your university, and mostlikely, the computers there are
:   also faster and otherwise better equipped than your computer at home.
:   (At least the computers at my university are).

	Ha, ha .. Even though I have 9.6k modem to University,
	I need my home computers 2 * 386 boxes, soon I'll
	third one. It's nice to have ethernet, tcp/ip, and
	software to run, like ghostscript printing with
	$60 DEC ln03+  laser. Prices for 386 boards start
	from $75-150 (used) .. [with 2MB].

:   Now, if you only want to write programs using existing tools, you should
:   look for Solaris 2.1 or SVR4 (maybe your university can get a site license,
:   including machines at home), Linux or 386BSD (or BSDI), and finally
:   Minix or Coherent.

	Studying OS using Solaris? How you can get sources to it?
	Can ScumOS be reliable? (must be a joke).

	[Corporation XYZ (name not mentioned) used to release binaries
	if they barely compiled - internal information].

:   On the other hand, you are interrested in kernel hacking, Minix is a much
:   better choice, since it is much smaller and easier to understand. And
:   most important, since it lacks all the features mentioned by Linus, you
:   actually do something useful.

	No way. Minix has been around many years, and not too many
	features have appeared. Linux now has it's first net birthday,
	and net is ful of sources, drivers etc. to it. Minix is
	just too hard to hack. Students returned 30% of their
	exercised back ;-( some of them you can see using FTP at
	sauna.cs.hut.fi:/pub/minix .. for Minix 1.3d (only 3
	exercised there, 11 returned).

:   For instance, I implemented a VM, TCP/IP, and ported X11R5, other people
:   contributed symbolic links, longer filenames (60 characters), 386 support,
:   387 support.

	And you are building yet another Bignix - how many other
	people can joy of that work? I personally got bored with
	system where are 100s of patches lying around. Minix
	in Finland costs $200 at least. That's not inexpensive -
	for students, it's 66% of their montly governmental aid.

:   Of course, the fun was in writing these (important) parts of an O.S., 
:   otherwise I would run SVR3.2.2, or SVR4. The next project would be a
:   rewrite of Minix into a true distributed OS like Amoeba or Mach :-) :-)

	It's fun hacking kernel code, but why rewrite Minix?
	You should write your own OS.

	Good luck, I hope you write good OS ... waiting ...
	nic.funet.fi:/pub/OS is waiting for your contribution ;-)

:   So, in short if you want a simple system you can understand try Minix,
:   if you want complete system try Linux.

	Still today I do not understand Minix simplicity, each
	student needed 10 HD floppies for the stuff. I hope
	you do understand that Linux kernel is quite small
	(kernel != all device drivers).

:						   Philip

	arl
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix