HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen)
Subject: Re: China and Japan in GNPs
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:47:48 EDT
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

In article <713789277.18872@minster.york.ac.uk> yong@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>According to the China Quarterly (1990), the comparision of the GNPs 
>between China and Japan are as follows.
>
>1. in 1960, GNP of China = GNP of Japan 
>
>2. in 1980, GNP of China = 1/4 GNP of Japan
>
>3. in 1984, GNP of China = 1/5 GNP of Japan
>
>4. in 1986(?), the GNP per capita of China was US$300 and the GNP per
>capita of Japan was over US$20,000, whereas the GNP per capita of Taiwan
>was over US$5,000.

GNP is not good measure for economic strength. Remember, GNP of Soviet
Union was second in the world after USA with exchange rate 1 Ruble = $4.
This year, with the exchange rate $1 = 150 Ruble, GNP of Soviet Union 
is in the bottom of the world. This is a good example showing how
bad it is to use GNP as the measure for economy.

J Chen
Department of Chemistry
University of Michigan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Do they really worth more?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:07:41 GMT

>>Some early-released reports already show that families of 
>>foreign victims of the Nanjing jetliner crash will get much 
>>higher compensations than people who are mainlanders.
>
>>I understand this has been long a ``tradition''.
>
>>Why are foreign lives more expensive than our brothers' 
>>and sisters'?
>>Because they have more expensive houses in HongKong?
>>or
>>Because they have more expensive motor-peds in Taiwan?
>>or
>>Because they have more expensive basketball players in US?
>
>>Another `Chinese and Dog'.  :-(
>
>>--
>
>>===
>>Zhu Yuchen, Edmonton
>
>I don't know if I have Ah. Q spirit or not.  I have tried to find some
>reasons to calm the anger for several times.  I think the reasons are:
>
>1. foreign passangers paid more than local Chinese passengers on air
>tickets; so
>2. foreign passengers might paid more for insurance;
>3. Chinese government want to attract foreign investment so paying more
>compensation could let foreigners keep foreigners to risk their lives
>to come to China ( which is a kind of stratigy similarly like Japan
>sending prostitutes abroad to earn foreign exchanges in the early of 
>this century).
>
>D. Yang
>
>
>

Also, it is much more expensive to buy a coffin and a tomb in Hong-Kong or
Taiwan than in China. The difference might be 10 times or higher, so the
higher compensation may mostly go to the cost of the coffin and tomb for 
the dead. Don't hope to make money out of the dead people from the 
compensation money. Just for your reference, the average cost of a 
funeral, including a coffin, tomb, music band, buried stuffs, etc.,
in Taiwan may run up to NT. 1,000,000 which is about RMB 200,000,
while the average cost in China may only run up to RMB 20,000.
So, even if the foreigner get 10 times more compensation than Chinese, 
they are barely doing the same thing as Chinese.

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hongde@ms.uky.edu (Hongde Luo)
Subject: For your information
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:41:07 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

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-- 
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* Hongde Luo             | Dept. of Compu. Sci.*   | / /~>   -+--+-  / ------
* 1921 Oxford Circle #5  | Univ. of Kentucky   *  ----/ X  \  |  |   | | \/ |
* Lexington, KY 40504    | Lexington, KY 40506 *  _- | /_\  /------- | ======
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:23471 soc.culture.hongkong:9977 soc.culture.japan:7026 soc.culture.taiwan:12148
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Response to the open letter to the Emperor of Japan
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:59:49 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <1992Aug17.170358.29321@news.cs.indiana.edu> kuan@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Victor Kuan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.181324.7532@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>>Most of
>>us who are out here to demand an apology from the Japanese government *oppose*
>>the Chinese communist government, I would say.
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Should apologize to the people, not the Gov't
>

   Idealistic but impractical.

   When the Japanese government expresses an apology it will be addressed to 
Chinese people through the Chinese government as long as a peaceful 
diplomatic relationship between the two countries is maintained.

   If the apology were kept in hold by the Chinese government and were not
conveyed to Chinese people properly, that would be your problem; not ours.

   Since I posted an open question regarding the joint statement in 1972,
no one has replied yet. I started to wonder if there is any Chinese person
who knows about this statement or the fact that the joint statement was made.
Is this just another example of dissociation between the Chinese government
and its people? (Well, I'm going to be off for a week. Maybe, I'll miss all the 
replies to come.)

   There are many Japanese who are against the textbook "censorship" by the
Japanese government. There are many Japanese who are not satisfied with the
irresolute and irresponsible attitude of the government regarding the WWII
problems. In that meaning, there are many Japanese opposing the Japanese
"liberal democratic" government. 

   Chinese government is BAD. 
   Chinese people are opposing the government.
   Therefore, Chinese are GOOD guys.

   Japanese government is BAD.
   Japanese people are opposing the government.
   However, "Japs" are BAD guys anyway.

   Sorry for my oversimplification, but doesn't this logic sound somehow 
familiar?

   We - Chinese peole and Japanese people - can have as much hostility
as we like against each other if we want to.
However, I don't think this is the only option that we have in order to  
resolve the "apology" issue.

   Oh well, my opinion might be also idealistic but impractical.
   Perhaps, we have somthing in common...

Michiaki Masuda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub)
Subject: Re: Worthless Jap's Apology
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:51:57 GMT

In article <9208152326.AA12774@nero.wustl.edu> dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU writes:
>
>
>I thought this should be a least controversial subject.  But it seems 
>some boy-scouts in scc don't understand this world well.  Here is
>my 2 cents thoughts, maybe redundant, but is helpful to those boys
>in understanding this world.
>
>In this world a real man should not care whether or not a bully
                 ^^^^ ^^^
>has made a "sincere" "regret" or "apology" or whatever for the crime
>he has committed.  A real man should care whether or not this bully
>could get ANOTHER CHANCE to do it again.   There is no doubt that the  
>bully would do a crime again if he got second chance, no matter how 
>sincere his "regret" was/is.   There is simply no such thing as   
>"sincere regret" from a bully.  Clear?
>
>There is no doubt Japs* would invade China again IF they have another 
>chance even if they had made a 10000000000000000000 times apologies!
>The key is we should make our country stronger and don't let Japs
>have a second chance. Whether or not Japs want to apology is up to
>them, but in my view, it has little worth.
>
>I alway feel pissed off whenever I read in People's Daily about
>Japanese's saying to the effect that "Japanese and Chinese should
>not fight against each other again".  It sounds like Sino-Jap War
>was caused by misunderstanding between Chinese and Japs.  What the
>heck is this?!  If Japs want to provoke Chinese into another invasion
>war, we will definitely fight back.  It is up to Japs whether or not
>we will fight against each other again.   
>
>That is all my 2 cents.
>-----
>* Japs is my favorite word refering Japanese whenever I talk to my
>countryfellows.  So if you are a Japanese and dislike this word,
>it is your fault to peep this newsgroup. (In case you are happy 
>with this word, then both of us are happy.  How wonderful this
>world would be?) If you are a Chinese and dislike this word, then
>I couldn't care less.
>
>--------------------
>
>T.T.Wu
>

In this world a real man does not feel compelled to resort to
semi-slurs such as "Jap" and then thumb his nose at people who might
feel offended.

Just state your points and have respect for other people who might be
reading this newsgroup.  What a wonderful world this would be.

T. Traub
From: ed@introl.introl.com (Ed Zhong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Stoke Exchange and China
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:03:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: introl.1992Aug19.160344.37965
Organization: Introl Corp.

In article <713541592.25602@minster.york.ac.uk> yong@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>According to today's Gardian (one major British new paper), the price 
>ratios are over 500 PE and 100 PE in Stoke Exchange Markets of Shanghai 
>and Shengzhen respectively; which means shares traded at 500 times higher
>and 100 times higher than they are worth in Shanghai and Shengzhen 
>respectively.

wrong! in US fast growing companies have >30 P/E, the more stable companies
have 5-20 P/E. but in Japan the counterpart companies have much higher P/Es.
500PE doesn't mean 500 times more expensive than the company's value, in fact,
it is not even related. The value of a company depends on the market, if it
goes as high as 500P/E, then it is worth that much. 

--ed


-- 
-------------			-----------------
||	Ed Zhong 		||	I make my money work for me.
||	ed@introl.com		||	I work to make my money work for me.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:23421 soc.culture.hongkong:9957 soc.culture.japan:6991 soc.culture.taiwan:12122
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japan
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:44:36 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Aug18.141750.8856@merlin.hgc.edu>, sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.33034.27688@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
> >rchoy@clarify.com (Raymond Choy) writes:
> >
> >>In article <1992Aug16.211822.5261@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> >
> >
> >Whilst Japan was the most powerful Navy ever to sail the Pacific. It's really
> 
> Hmmm.... I don't know where you got the idea that Japan was the most 
> powerful Navy EVER to sail the Pacific, let me correct you, Mr. Choy.
> Your statement may be true for the Japanese Navy after 19 century, but
> do you know why they failed the invasion of Korea at 1592? Because their
> Navy was defeated by Korean Navy so that they didn't have enough supplies
> from thier island. Mongols failed to invade the Japan not because they
> had great naval power to stop Mongols, but because they were just lucky
> to have Typoon at that time. They call it the "Holly Wind" - Kamikaje.

As one netter noted that, it is called "God Wind", which translated to
Chinese will be SERN2 FUNG1. This term was used by the Japanese to denote
a certain battalion in WWII I just can't recall the exact name for it.

-- 
/* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *\
 * The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
 * Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen)
Subject: Re: Shut the Hell up! Some of you Netters!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:23:46 EDT
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug12.154819.10158@news.nd.edu> mm@doge.phys.um.edu (Matt Macura) writes:
>There are at least one third of the articles in this Newsgroup that either
>sounds really boring or looks really ugly. I don't really understand why some
>people keep buffling on something for damn too long. I don't think some of the
>guys here should be allowed to shoot craps all over the place like they did.
>Clean up the fights, man!

Well, your article is very boring and ugly indeed.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.taiwan
From: lix@BUCRSB.BU.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Cannibalism in China - more Info
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:56:02 GMT

Xingdong Ma wrote:
>    There are altogether three of them, Yi4 Ya2 , Shu4 Diao1 and 
<I forgot the other's name.  

Square root.

>Guan3 Zhong4 told Qi2 Huan2 Gong1 to 
<keep away from those three when Guan3 was on his deathbed, but 
<Huan2 Gong1 didn't take Guan3's words.

My friend, Dr. Su, had a paper about this. He believes that is Dr. Guan's
fault: failed to recommend one to succeed himself. I think Dr. Su had a
good point here.
From: dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Cannibalism in China
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:05:16 GMT


In article <etxmow.714043998@garboc34> etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:
>       In today's "Dagens Nyheter" (17/8) the largest morning paper
>       in Sweden, there is a long article claiming that many cases
>       of cannibalism occured in China during the '60s. The article
>       written by a Chinese, claims that tens of thousand of people
>       were massacred and eaten. First they were condemned as "enemies
>       of the people" and then slaughtered. I will spare you the grisly
>       details, but the author claimed that the career in the communist
>       party were easier for those who participated in the abhorrent 
>       murders.
>
>       Does the article lie ? Or did these cruelties really take place ?
>       (To relate to another thread in s.c.c., no cannibalism took place
>       in Norway during the '60s, to the best of my knowledge...)
>
Frankly, I heard this sort of thing when I was in China, but not exactly
like the article described.  It happened at later 50s' and early 60s',
just before I was born; so my knowledge is second hand.

This disaster was caused by CCP crazy "Big Leap" movement which brought
about man-made famine.  In order to keep them in power, CCP tried every
method to make sure PLA immuned from the famine and let city people suffered
to a point that they might complain but they would not rebel.  So CCP
took everything away from farmers, literally everything, in some cases
last grain was taken away.  So many farmers were forced to starve to death.
In some area unfortunately cannibalism occured.

This was most serious crime CCP committed to Chinese people, in my opinion.
Frankly, as a Chinese myself, I really don't understand why those farmer 
didn't rebel, because they really had nothing to lose.  I always think
this is most ugly side of Chinese people, that is too submissive to the
authority.

However, I think this sort of thing has little to do with culture, instead
it has a lot to do with ugly side of human nature.  It occured in all kinds
of cultures.  For example, in Jewish gettoes at Third Reich time,  or in 
Leningrad under Nazi German siege, cannibalism occured too because of extreme
lack of food.  I never think it has anything to do with Jewish Culture or
Russia Culture, thoug Nazi propaganda would say otherwise. 

-------------------

T.T.Wu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: pk99nom@pga.ts.com (Pal K.)
Subject: Re: Darkest age of China (Re: Golden age of China?)
Reply-To: pk99nom@pga.ts.com (Pal K.)
Organization: Unknown
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 19:37:22 GMT

In article <sHc-3g@engin.umich.edu> chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen) writes:
> [discussion of history deleted]
>
>Today, there are some netters attacks the nationism. But after you learn
>the sad stories of our country, after you learn your brothers are killed 
>by foreign invaders, after you learn your sisters are raped foreign invaders, 
>will you still attack the nationism?

Do you mean it would be more tolerable if our people are killed and
raped by our own countrymen? The point of the criticism on 
narrow-minded nationalism is NOT that we should tolerate the foreign
oppression or exploitation. Rather, it is aimed at the stupidity
that has been obstruction to the progress of our nation. Remember,
nationalism can NOT stop a nation to be abused by another nation,
it only brandishes its wound in an unhealthy way. China's suffering
of this century is not because Chinese people have been too
non-nationalistic, rather, it is because we have been too much
over-nationalistic. Before this century, Chinese believed we are
the no. 1 nation in the world, and there is nothing could be
called a culture if it was not Chinese. Today, still a lot of our
countrymen don't realize that we have paid a heavy price for
our nationalistic ego. We refuse to accept a lot of ideas just
because they are foreign to us, as CCP said, not fitting with the
situation of China. We perceive any criticism from foreigners as
an ulterior attempt to control China.

Bad Chinese are as viscious as bad foreigners. Murderers and rapists
should be punished, no matter they are Mongolian or Chinese. Period.
From: cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Could more light topics in China?
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:35:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: ringer.1992Aug21.013542.2216
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


      I found it is hard to enjoy many topics in this newsgroup. 
New school days coming, I doubt students still have enough 
time to read those long-talked and no-solutioned topics.
      Should we have more interesting, happy, light and new
topics instead of those of tragic, dark, sorrowed on China.
I guess we need more news-reports on today's China(any 
achievement on science or other areas, positive prefered,
some current social problems ok too). For more and more 
non-Chinese readers are caring this group, it's better to post
folk life or even food. I fear that those non-Chinese readers could
get only impressed Chinese=politicians or Chinese=poor guys.
BTW, try to give no space and opportunity to those who insult 
Chinese anything with racism.
     
cqu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:23300 soc.culture.hongkong:9908 soc.culture.japan:6905 soc.culture.taiwan:12064
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japan
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:02:46 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

news@comlab.ox.ac.uk writes:

>In article <903@hobby.ukc.ac.uk>, mhs@ukc.ac.uk (M.H.Smith) writes...

>>We have seen plenty of hysterical rants over the past few
>>days from Chinese and Koreans. They display a deep-seated
>>anti-Japanese feeling. No apology will destroy this racism. Japanese
>>war crimes are just an excuse for racism.

>Is Japanese war crimes really just an excuse?  Why do Chinese and
>Koreans have a deep-seated anti-Japanese feeling?  You mean it is
>due to the Japanese invasion of their auto industry, or the dumping
>of Japanese goods in their local market?  Let's be reasonable.  Try
>and distinguish the cause and effect.

I know it may sound totally bizarre to you but I don't believe there
is any necessary connection between what happened (is happening) to
China and the deep-seated anti-Japanese feeling. 

You seem to have made your feelings dependent upon the actions of
others and thus you aren't really in charge of your emotional life,
they are. Even if the Japanese were to provide any and all apologies
of your choice, you would still be under their control and it is you
who have place yourself there. And this, I suspect, is the problem. 

Once you become in charge of your own life, it doesn't change things
that other people do but you are no longer at their mercy. Instead
of carrying on about how *they* have to do something to make *your*
life better, *you* do it. 

Works for me :-)

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japan
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:18:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.210247.9394@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.165741.29568@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)  
>writes:
>> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>> 
>> >Even though there were conflict and border dispute. It was China who caused  
>the  
>> >conflict. Vietnam was not so stupid to hit both Cambodia and China at the  
>same  
>> >time. So China has no excuse.
>> 
>> 
>> Oh, really. Then the Iraq is so stupid to hit US first?
>> 
>> >Carl
>
>Iraq hit Kuwait first instead of the US. 
>
Are you saying Saddam doesn't know the emirate of Kuwait is
a protectrate of Uncle Sam?

>Carl


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china