HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: U.S. maufacturers
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:57:17 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences

In article <Btq7Jo.Dxy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield) writes:
>    Lately, there has been a thread about U.S. race car makers, or the
>lack of them. Someone even said that Hercules made the MP4 series here in
>the U.S. I don;t think that is right. I thought that Hercules was a 
>supplier a while back, and so, gave McLaren unfinished carbon-fibre for
>them (McLaren) to make their car in Great Britain with their own autoclave.
>Maybe I have this all wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, now McLaren
>is sponsored by Courtaulds, so it doesn't even matter anymore. So, does
>any one have any extra info. That would most appreciated. 
>
>Regards,
>Cory
>
I think that Hercules was the original maker of the MP4 tub, but that
McLaren long ago got their own autoclave (like all other F1 teams did
a few years later). I believe that all the teams (at least all the good
ones) now make their tubs in-house, but I assume they buy the carbon
fiber from somewhere else.

My other contribution to this thread is this:
There is no question that the tech level in European/International
motor racing (F1, WSC {R.I.P.}, etc.) is higher than in the North
American series (IndyCars, IMSA GTP, etc.). There is also no question
(IMO) that the North American series have closer competition and
better racing for the spectator. Both have been true for a number of
years (although this year IMSA GTP is only somewhat better than the
poor WSC). So you take what you like. I like both kinds. Can a made
in USA car compete with a Made in UK car? Yes, but it would cost more,
mainly because nobody else is doing it. If IndyCar teams were to get
F1 size budgets, you can bet they would start making cars here in the
USA instead of overseas, because there would then be enough volume
to make it competitive.

Jeff
From: raineyd@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Dan Rainey)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:59:24 GMT
Subject: looking for mini stocks
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

Hello, Im looking for any one in the SF bay area that might still have
an old bay lands mini stock just sitting around .  If its for sale Im interestedfor those that dont want to sell bring it to stockton at the fair grounds
at delta speedway we race every friday night. Also Im starting a project
car an IMCA modified and I need as much info as I can get on building one
cheap any help would be appreciated. Heavy metal #3i
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Subject: Re: World or national series?  (was: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1)
Organization: Toshiba America MRI Inc, S. San Francisco, CA.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 20:16:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.145442.2694@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.003039.24885@uwm.edu>, naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
>(Daniel J Naze) writes:
>
>|> Penske cars are designed and built in Poole, Dorset, England, in Penskes
>|> own factory.  The cars are designed by Nigel Bennett.
>|> Galmer Engineering is based in Bicester, Oxon, England, and designed by
>|> Alan Mertons.
>
>In addition, Lolas are designed and built in GB, as were the March chassis
>which were very popular at least in the early 80ies.  As far as I know,
>Cosworth and Ilmor are English companies, that is, their engines are
>-- to the best of my knowledge -- also designed and built in GB.  (Of
>course, they are sponsored by US companies, namely Ford and GM.)  Alfas
>are Italian and and Porsches German, leaving essentially only the Buick.
>
>I cannot help to conclude that, for some reason, there do not seem to
>be US companies which are able to design and build chassis which are
>competitive with British-English companies at the level of F1 or
>IndyCar/CART racing.  The same appears to be true of engines.
>Sorry.  (Btw:  Flames to /dev/null.)
>
>-- 
>Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60

I remember David Hobbs of ESPN saying that the environment laws in the US
basically keep the "cottage" industry of making race cars very very expensive
and unreasonable.  Additionally, he mentioned that since there are already a
very large number of small shops which specialize in this process in the UK,
it again makes no sense to start your own.

This is perhaps the reason why Penske, Galmer, Lolas, March, etc. are based
in the UK.  BTW, I am reffereing to the small bits and piecies of the racing
car (i.e. brake pads, rotors, Mg wheels, titanium under pieces, etc....)

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: johnl@amiganet.chi.il.us (John Liskey)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: CART - Highest Attrition?
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:14:20 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

Anyone know off the top of their head what the 2 or 3 highest attrition races
have been in CART history?

John Liskey
johnl@amiganet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bulls@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (debra.s.martis)
Subject: Re: Rahal's comments
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:08:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.154136.5078@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:


>I think the ESPN pit lane reporters have to use a little
>better judgement in these cases.  Granted, they're doing
>their job, so to speak, but I think they should take some
>notes from the MRN Radio guys.  Just about any musclehead
>can pretty well read the situation and use a little discretion
>in their timing of sticking the microphone in front of a driver
>who hasn'
>t had enuf time to cool himself down, so to speak.

I remember the ESPN commentators mentioning something about not
being able to control the pictures being shown.  something about
a joint broadcast with CBC.  Obviously, they had control of their
pit reporters though.  Anyone know the terms of the agreement
ESPN has with CBC??  And to what extent, if any, do they have over
what pictures are shown when??

-Jammer
From: mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna & Williams
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:26:58 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon

>I find this decision rather deplorable.  Ayrton Senna is a
>*professional* driver.  A professional driver's _job_ is not to win.
>Instead his job is to drive for a team, develop a car, help the
>designers, the mechanics, etc, with his hints and his experience, his
>feelings and his opinions.  If he wins, great, otherwise, at least he
>must try his best.

No, he is his own boss. He can drive whenever he wants to. And
he does not need to drive for a team that he does not like. 
Not all of us have all this lucky.


>A professional driver will/should drive any car.  If he can get his
>hands on an already developped, likely winner car (as Williams seems
>to be), then all the better.  Otherwise he *should* drive for another
>team, with a new or upcoming car/engine.  Help them develop it and
>maybe in a few years he will find himself sitting on a winner!!

Why ? Just, because we want to see them on TV ? If you have a lot of
money you can certainly choose if you want to work for one
company or not. 

>Yes, I know some will say that they are doing it to win and why risk
>their lives if they cannot win.  The answer is because that is their
>job, a profession they chose and for which (most) are being very well
>paid.

That's the point. It is their job. And they can choose if they
want to work or not.

>These guys are simply spoiled brats and I have no respect or
>admiration for them.  My hats off for the other _professionals_ who
>drive F1, with their hearts out, trying to get their best out of
>second-rate cars!!

I have a lot of respect and admiration for them. They worked very
hard and proved to be the best. Now they are independent and
they can choose their own job. But, before being the best they
had a hard time.


>-Miguel

Gilberto
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: NASCAR: Steve Bird and Fe-head (was: Birdie calls it quits...)
Keywords: Birdie, Crew Chief Quits, #36, Dirt Devil
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:43:07 GMT

dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes:

>  Heard last night on 'NASCAR Live' that Kenny Wallace's crew chief, Birdie,
> has quit. DW's ol chief (who was going to lead his Winston Cup effort in
> 93) will take over.

>  My only question is did Birdie really quit, or was there more? 

Well, Sabates hired Jeff Hammond about a month ago, with the explicit
intention of putting Hammond in charge of Kenny's WC ride next year.
Bird was a holdover from when Rusty Wallace owned the team.

> Where will
> Birdie wind up next? He lead R. Moroso to his BGN championship only to be
> dumped when they went Winston Cup. Perhaps Birdie is just not Winston Cup
> material?!?

This is going to sound like sour grapes... well, it IS sour grapes, but
bear with me anyway.  Two years ago, Steve Bird was out of a job after
being canned by the WC team he was working for at the time (I forget
who it was).  Steve and Phil Grissom gave him a job, and Phil stepped
aside as crew chief and let Bird take it.  And they started winning --
Steve won four races in 1990, all in the second half, and Bird's
reputation was restored.  So, just as they were getting geared up to
run for the BGN championship in 1991, what does Bird do?  Jump ship
to Rusty's operation!  To this day, the Grissom team has never really
recovered from that.  So, pardon me if I'm a little short on sympathy.

Is Steve Bird a candidate for a WC crew chief?  Well, I'd say he
definitely has the talent.  The question is, does he have the dedication
to not walk away the first time the team hits a little snag?  Only
Bird himself can answer this.  Let's keep an eye on him for the next
year or two.

Now, the other topic...

>     Once caller made a comment about it was nice of Ironhead to back off
>     on Sunday and give the win to Joe Nimacheck (sp?). From my seat (tv)
>     it was hard to tell if this did happen or not. Anyone know if its
>     true?

I don't know about "letting him win", but Earnhardt definitely backed off
after he nailed Nemechek (correct spelling; I checked) in the rear in
turn 4 two laps from the finish.  Nice or not, he had to do that; if he
had gone ahead and passed at that point, he almost certainly would have
gotten a black flag.  That was a hard hit!

He did come back and try to race Nemechek on the last lap.  He screwed
up, though.  Earnhardt's car was pushing badly, yet he tried to go
to the inside.  Once that happened, all Joe had to do was keep Dale
pinned there; with the car pushing, Dale couldn't accelerate off the
corners, and the outcome was inevitable (although it *was* exciting to
see).
-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-4517
(cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Re: Ques: on Cd and FW
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:28:49 GMT

t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:

>In article <1992Aug31.184900.28792@sdf.lonestar.org>, smiley@sdf.lonestar.org (M. Smiley) writes:
>> In article <BttF1p.CK3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:
>>>	 The posts along this thread were getting to long to include, so
>>>I'll just add my $0.02... Williams will again be the benchmark in '93, but
>>>the Benetton with the new Ford-Cosworth V-12 will also be a FORCE!!!!!! 	I'm sure it will have some teething problems, but the HB V-8 didn't have
>>>too many bugs when it first came out, so i THINK it should be pretty compet-
>> 
>> Yeah, and the Honda V-10 didn't have too many problems out of the box, but,
>> look at the problems the V-12 had. Benneton will be a force only because they
>> posess the 2cd best chassis at the moment (alright Schumacher helps a bit).
>> 
>>>TOBY PADDINGTON...
>>>
>> How many last names do you have Toby ?
>> 
>> George.



>Taking '2cd' to mean Cd(drag co-efficient) does anyone have figures on the
>current crop of cars.
	`2cd' does not mean coefficient of drag. It is a butcherization
of 2nd by one of those mouth-breathers that attends that trade school in 
Texas!!!!!!!!!! But on that subject, with huge wings and exposed tires, the  
cd of F1 cars is something like 1.??? Anyway, have a nice day.

>One other question, given that teams like McLaren, Ferrari, Brabham were
>started by the drivers themselves, was Frank Williams ever an F1 driver, if a
>racing driver? If not F1 what other form of racing?
> 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>C J                                         |
>                                            |  Space for rent....
>Internet : T9014143@phillip.edu.au          |
>E-mail   : cwebb@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au  |
>                                            |
>================================================================================

TOBY PADBERG...

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: denis@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Denis Schiozer)
Subject: Re: Alesi VS Schumacher
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:18:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.080343.13768@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <92247.082537JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>, Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>|> I bring this up because Berger has #1 status at Ferrari, while Schumacher
>|> has the same at Benetton. I think Alesi should share the same status as
>|> Berger.
>
>Apparently, Niki Lauda thinks that Berger deserves #1 status at Ferrari...
>
> 
>-- 
>Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60

    Will Alesi be in Ferrari next season? Maybe thats why Berger will
be #1. I agree that Alesi has equal or better talent than Berger.
    How about the comments on ESPN in the Belgium GP about Ferrari
talking to Rubens Barrichello from Brazil? Anybody knows something
about this?

                                 Denis Schiozer
                                 denis@pangea.stanford.edu
From: conrad@pico.OZ (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Touring cars at Bathurst, Oz
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:49:52 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers) writes:
: News from Bathurst, NSW, Australia
: 
: 
: * Car running to '93 Australian Touring Car rules.  The Ford uses a 5.0
:   NASCAR V8, while the VP Commodore uses a Chevy NASCAR 5.0 V8.  These
:   cars are dinosaurs, but CAMS (+ the TV network + Shell, the ATCC series
:   sponsor) say it is what the public want to see.  These types of cars
:   will be racing against cars running to the British 2 litre TC tules
:   next year.  The Falcons/Commodores should blitz them - boring.
: 

Damn right, Anthony!  What are those silly gallahs on?  J****s, Holden
(GM) spends years building a new V8, Nissan pours $Mega into skylines,
BMW shows the small car way &
most of our Oz roadcars are under 3l fours & CAMs hoists a US motored, 2
mf'tr class on us.  

Nissan, Toyota, BMW: goodbye & thanks for all the fish.

And what will happen to Group E - our existing Ford/GM two car battle.
At least that represented their local product.  There's more
local-manufaturer-content in a Mitsubishi Magna than the proposed Group
A cars.

Maybe this is a very,very subtle plan to revive open-wheeler racing in Oz?

Conrad (I hope Tim Sheken doesn't take away my licence for this) Drake
--
"There's something stirring in my loins and it isn't the spirit of Jesus"
                - Helen Razor, JJJ announcer, 1992.

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Road America 200 Results, PPG IndyCar World Series Standings
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:47:30 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

Looking down the list of finishers, something odd struck me: there were
ten cars that all finished 50 laps!  My impression is that I don't often
see a race, Indy or F1, with so many cars unlapped.  What does it all
mean?

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: David Letterman's top 10
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:51:44 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC

In rec.autos.sport, pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:

>I have a feeling I am about to embarrass myself here.....
>
>Who _is_ Robin Leach?
>--
>Paul O'Donnell                           |"You're just saying that because
>pod@softway.sw.oz.au                     |you don't understand art."
		^^
I could be wrong (since I'm certainly not a fan of the irritating little
*#&@!), but isn't Mr. Leach actually from Oz? If so, you can have him
back any time Paul :-)
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |First things first!     |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 2759           | (But not necessarily in|
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |that order) - The Doctor|
_________________________________________________|________________________|
From: geoff@tyger.Eng.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 25 Aug 1992 21:52:22 GMT
Organization: SunSelect
NNTP-Posting-Host: tyger.east.sun.com

Quoth agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92)) (in <1992Aug25.183341.21468@fang.att.com>):
#T.Cohen asked:
#>>Did the Team Lotus drivers ever drive any of the Galaxies
#>>that revolutionised British Saloon car racing in the early 60s?
#>>J.Francis answered:
#>I don't believe so.  To the best of my recollection they were all driving
#>Lotus Cortinas (a vehicle that showed that there was an other approach to a
#>winning car design than stuffing steroids down the throat of the powerplant).
#
#I think the big Galaxies were driven by (Jack?) Sears and (Maybe) Roy Salvadori???

Jack Sears was certainly one.... Of course, the guy who really
revolutionised British Saloon car racing wasTerry Drury, who combined
the best of both trends (Cortinas and Galaxies) with his "Fraud Cortina":
a Cortina with a 7.0L V8 shoehorned into it. I never saw him manage
a wheelspin-free start...

Geoff
--
Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Select. (geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM)
-----------
News software that enforces a four-line .signature limit is responsible for
the fact that these postings just go on and on and on and seem to end in mid-
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi (Mika Paakko)
Subject: Some results of the 1st day (was: Re: Rally of the Thousands Lakes)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 06:56:28 GMT
Reply-To: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

In article <1992Aug27.144647.1538@tac.fi> tiot_kk@tac.fi (Kimmo Kauranen) writes:

> THE RALLY OF THE THOUSANDS LAKES (JYVASKYLAN SUURAJOT)
> ======================================================

> The Rally of the Thousands Lakes starts today at 18.00 EET in Finland.
> It will last four days ending on Sunday. 

> The biggest favourites are
> Juha Kankkunen, Fin   Lancia
> Didier Auriol, Fra    Lancia
> Markku Alen, Fin      Toyota

> I 'll try to send results so often I can.


Well, here are some of the results of the first Day:


SS 1 	"Harju"		  2.72 km
---------------------------------

	1. Alen		1.57
	   Gronholm	1.57
	3. Vatanen	1.58
	   Mcrae	1.58
	   Blomqvist	1.58


SS 2 	"Kuohu"		  7.74 km
---------------------------------

	1. Auriol	3.52
	   Alen		3.52
	3. Kankkunen	3.53
	4. Vatanen	3.55
	5. Gronholm	3.57


SS 3	"Parkkola"	22.48 km	Raining a little bit...
--------------------------------

	1. Kankkunen	11.52
	   Auriol	11.52
	3. Vatanen	11.54
	4. Alen		11.56
	5. Delecour	11.59


SS 4	"Ehikki"	14.64 km	Raining got worse; getting 
--------------------------------	dark now, too.

	1. Auriol	7.16
	2. Alen		7.19
	3. Kankkunen	7.20
	4. Vatanen	7.25
	5. Delecour	7.26


SS 5	"Vaheri"	20.94 km	Still raining, dark.
--------------------------------

	1. Auriol	10.48
	2. Vatanen	10.52
	3. Kankkunen	10.54
	4. Makinen	10.59
	5. Alen		11.00




Results after first day (after SS 5 of 37):
-------------------------------------------------------------

	1. Didier Auriol	FRA	Lancia		35.49
	2. Juha Kankkunen	FIN	Lancia		36.01
	3. Markku Alen		FIN	Toyota		36.04
	4. Ari Vatanen		FIN	Subaru		36.05
	5. Francois Delecour	FRA	Ford		36.33
	6. Massimo Biasion	ITA	Ford		36.53
	7. Colin Mcrae		GBR	Subaru		37.00
	   Stig Blomqvist	SWE	Nissan		37.00
	   Tommi Makinen	FIN	Nissan		37.00
       10. Lasse Lampi		FIN	Mitsubishi	37.37


The race will continue tomorrow morning and end on Sunday.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
 _ _ _                 ____                        Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
' ) ) )    /         /  /  )           /   /       Lappeenranta U of Tech.,
 / / / o /_  __     (  /__/ __   __   /_  /_  __   FINLAND
/ ' (_<_/ <_(_/(_   <_/   _(_/(_(_/(_/ <_/ <_/_/-  All of my opinions are mine!
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IMSA (Jaguar)
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:40:26 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <44qW02381fYm01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jpl10@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com () writes:
<stuff deleted>

>using that exotic blend of fuel for some time now.  I also asked him if
>IMSA was going to put a weight penalty on Toyota now that they are the
>dominant car.  He said IMSA is adding an additional 50 lbs. to Jag and
>Mazda for next year, but nothing mentioned yet for Toyota.  Looks like
>IMSA is hand picking the champion this year and maybe next.  How long
>does IMSA think Jaguar will stay around if they keep being relegated to
>underdog status??  Does anyone know how IMSA comes up with the formula
>for weight penalties for different car/engine combinations??

Flame Time:

This really sux.  The only team IMSA has dumped on as much as Jag was
Audi.  Those guys (Jag) have been trying for a long time, and giving
the fans a pretty good show as well.  They soldiered along behind
Nissan for years.  I think this was the watermark year for Jag.  They
say, "O.k.  we'll invest what we need to win the championship", and
IMSA just won't let it happen.  If I were Tom Walkinshaw, I'd go play
F1 and tell IMSA to get f*cked!  Racing is expensive enough without
having to pay off the organizing body to win.  Yeah, I know, the same
stuff goes on in other classes, but IMSA fiddling with GTP is so
blatant, it's completely turned me off to the series.

O.K. I feel better now...

Jim
From: raineyd@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Dan Rainey)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:59:55 GMT
Subject: Re: looking for mini stocks
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport