From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan is lilbit different from Israel
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:56:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.214119.28925@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
must@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mustafa Syed) writes:
> In article <1992Dec24.090413@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed
Khan) writes:
> >In article <1hbgk4INN13q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor
Khan)
> >writes:
> >> Stuff Deleted
> >> 
> >> >The creation of the Jewish state of Israel solely on the basis of
religion
> >> >which resulted in the mass expulsion of Arabs and non-jews is derided by
the
> >> >entire muslim world and possibly by a large number of Pakistanis; but
I've
> >never
> >> >understood how the creation of the muslim state of Pakistan was justified
in
> >the
> >> >same breadth by the same people.
> >> 
> >> >--Javed.
> >> 
> >> 	Pakistan and India were Created by bisecting pre-1947 India.
> >> 	People who lived in post-47 India were living there for centuies.
> >> 	Similarly people who lived in Pakistan lived there for Centuries.
> >> 	i.e. Baluchis, Panjabis, Sindhis, Bengalis, and Pathans. Yes, huge
> >> 	trans-border migration took place, but all of the people who now live
> >> 	in Pakistan and India,  lived in pre 47 India for thousands of years.
> >> 	Israel on the other hand was created for bringing people who
> >> 	did not belong to Palestine. In other words, Jews who live in
> >> 	todays Israel, most of them are of non Palestinian ancestary.
> >> 	i.e. people of pre 1948 Palestine <> people of Jordan + People of
> >> 					     Israel + People of West Bank
> >> 						      of river Jordan.
> >> 
> >> 	but people of pre 1947 India = people of modern Pakistan 
> >> 				     + people of modern India.
> >>   
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm not disputing the fact that the people of India and Pakistan belonged to
> >pre-partition India. I am disputing the ideology that resulted in the
creation
> >of these religion inspired countries. 
> >
> 	So you the first question that you posted was misrepresentation of
> 	what you intended. Now you make the point that you dispute the
> 	idealogy without even knowing WHAT IDEALOGY! read on....





What was so misrepresentative of my intention in the original question? Its 
possible you are reading more than was written.

Then you are jumping to conclusions about my knowledge or ignorance about
the ideology of the creation of Pakistan.




> 
> 
> >In the case of Israel, the majority of the Jews around the world are
Semites,
> >like the Arabs and descendents of the Jewish tribes of the ancient biblical
land
> >comprising present day Israel, who were exiled from their lands.
> >
> >My argument is that if religion is the sole justification for creating
Pakistan,
> >then the creation of Israel also cannot be faulted on that token.
> >
> 	Your argument is based on wrong presumptions. Religion is NOT the
> 	SOLE justification for creating Pakistan. The justification is
> 	based on the religion AND the followers of the religion being a
> 	majority who voted to form the state of Pakistan.



And when was the vote taken?



> 
> 	In case of Israel, Religion is indeed the SOLE justification and
> 	is implemented WITH OUT any regard to the local population. That
> 	is clearly unacceptable. It is like Someone getting up one day and
> 	deciding that he wants to live in some house which his ancestors
> 	sold/vacated a few generations back because he has found a letter 
> 	from his grand grand parent that that house will bring him luck and 
> 	fortune. Ofcourse, if any body is living there, it is just too bad, 
> 	out he goes with his family and stuff and in moves
> 	your hero!




Thats exactly what I'm saying. 

No one has the right to throw out people from the lands where they have lived
for generations even if the aggressors had ancestors living there centuries
ago OR they were forced to leave because some group of people decide to create
a state for the people of the majority religion.





> 
> >Before people get worked up, I must make it clear that I support the claims
> >of the Palestinians in their fight against Israel because the foundation of
> >the Israeli state is based on morally unacceptable and illegal premises.
> >
> >But I see the same parallels, though not of the same magnitude, in the
creation
> >of Pakistan.
> >
> >
> 	You can see what you feel like seeing. That is your right, BUT that
> 	that does not make it RIGHT!



That is what is being discussed-- whether it was right or wrong. 



> 
> 	Mustafa Syed.
> 
> 
> >--Javed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Mansoor Khan
> >> Cleveland, Ohio
> >> 
> >> 
> 
> 



--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh