HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:29:28 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe):
> My understanding of the situation is that there are fixed preferences 
> that we all have, that are not at all rational, and that are 
> immutable.

i think there is a separation that needs to be drawn.  there is
a type that catches your eye when they walk past, a type that
you find inherently sexy in the sense that you want to drop your
pants and fuck or be fucked senselessly.  however, there's also a
much different kind of type that's more sensual with
characteristics that are harder to define and need to be discovered.

while i recognize that a beautiful body usually catches my eye, it
usually takes much more, usually seemingly much less, to actually
turn me on.  for me, a person can exude sexiness independent of
their body type.  i'm discovering that self-confidence, intelligence,
sensitivity, and communication are much more sexy -- especially when
you get them in bed.

these kind of qualities don't grab you as the person walks past.
usually, one needs to talk to the person first, and here's where
the separation between physical attractiveness and sensual
attractiveness comes into play.  there are times when a physically
attractive person catches your eye and after a little talk, he's
sensually attractive as well, but there are other times when you
discover that someone is physically attractive only *after*
discovering that they're sensually attractive.

many, many more men are catching my eye these days for different
reasons.  some just look self-confident, relaxed, at ease with
themselves.  some are just physically beautiful, matching my
"ideal" physical type.  while i'll grant that they share a
certain physical attractiveness, they don't share a common type.

> we follow the method of
> the twink talking to Nick on the stairway in the film "Parting 
> Glances": "I look at my dick, and it tells me what it likes." [or 
> words to that effect]

darling, a look at the *entire* film would behoove you.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:12:04 GMT
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

In article <l8vsg4INNt8n@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> So where do the snaps come from?  From the movie version of _Bell
> Book and Candle_ (1958), starring Kim Novak as a beatnik/witch 
> whose familiar is a cat named Pyewacket.  Novak falls in love 
> with a mortal, played by Jack Lemmon.  Several scenes take place
> at a club frequented by beatnik/witches and warlocks, and I bet 
> you'd have a hard time distinguishing the club in the film from
> real-life Queer hangouts today.  The snaps?  That's what the
> beatniks do instead of applauding the acts at the club.  The
> snaps are *very* funny and recur throughout the film.

  That's interesting. Roy Disney's Santa Cruz 70 (a sailboat) is
named Pyewacket. I had always wondered where the name had come
from (I have always thought it to be a great name for a boat, up
there with _Electric Pumpkin_). Is there anything beyond this? 
Did Pyewacket have any meaning beyond this movie? Does this say 
anything about Roy?
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Presumption
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:26:31 GMT

In article <4515@news.duke.edu>
     John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu writes:

>Acts are what is legislated against.

   Not if you live in Oregon.  Or Colorado.  Take a look at the action
being taken there.  The proposed laws "Prohibit state and local
governments from promoting, condoning, encouraging, facilitating, or
treating as inconsequential... homosexuality."

   Read that AGAIN.  The state may _not_ "treat as inconsequential"
homosexuality.  This is not an attack on an act, on a behavior, on my
fucking my lover in the privacy of my own home.  This is a commitment
to treating me like a second class citizen because I wanna hold his
hand!

>We are often the receiver of agression and hate because we either
>commit or are thought to commit those acts.  Even Biblical repression
>is based on acts, not on being.

   Not every 'phobe has a holy book as the wind at his back.  Indeed,
most phobia is aimed simply at our existance, at our "lack of" whatever
it is that defines the majority.  We Make A Target Of Convenience.

>If I claimed I was black would that make me black?

   Did you ever read "The Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison?  :-)

> Their overwhelming affectional orientation
>>was towards men, but through some odd quirk of fate they
>>found themselves with a woman. 

>This is what used to be and in many quarters still is a bisexual
>or a Lesbian. 

   But NOT AMONG US.  I think that's an important point.  Garth, who is
a near and dear friend of mine, is straight.  We've had sex, but he is
still _straight_.  And no matter how "understanding" he is of gays,
lesbians, and bisexuals, I don't expect him to understand it they way I
do.

      Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:01:49 GMT

You know, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all.

I talked to Jeff Shaumeyer last night/this morning and we agreed that this  
specific approach isn't too practical.  Oh well.

Well, at least everybody has a better idea of who I am, if that counts for  
anything.  I really didn't mean to precipitate the response I got.  It just  
reminds me of how indicative the newsgroup is of the real world.  We have too  
many fucking factions within ourselves that don't even try to see things eye to  
eye.  I certainly didn't mean to get in the middle of that.  It's wrong and we  
ought to know a hell of a whole lot better.

And Arne, I don't buy that shit about "Oh, Arne must be in a bad mood" because  
that's bullshit.  What, everybody is supposed to tip-toe around the net-queen  
Arne and discount everything he says as merely and emotional trip without  
thinking of who he may be really hurting?  Being the elder of the two of us,  
you should by now that 1. You get what you pay for and 2. For every action,  
there is a reaction. Just because you may be PMSing doesn't mean you have to be  
a bitch.  There are certain medications you can take, dear, like Midol 2000.   
They even make a night-time version.  And next time, please use plastic  
hangers, dear.  The rust has gone from your clothes, through your skin and to  
your heart.  I suppose the cost for being a bitch is rough.

Donald
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: bear hunting
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:22:37 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug12.235308.29301@syacus.acus.oz.au>
brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) writes:

>Preserve us--more jarring puns?  But I suppose I must *put up* with it, 
>mason I, since I'm told I'm as wide-mouthed as anyone.  Berry true, that.

What *can* I say?  Fruit thou truly art.
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:46:57 GMT
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>Actually, it matters quite a lot.  The dozen or so straight people who
>know I'm gay were surprised and quite hard to convince.  The uniform
>remarks I heard were:

>3.  "If more gays acted like normal people, I don't think that society
>     would have such a problem with it".
>4.  "How come [feminine gay name] has to act like that?"
etc.

You need to go out more and meet more worthwhile people. After all
you're in Seattle, where lots of cool straight people live.

I'm in lowly midwestern smalltown Champaign, lots of straight people
know I'm gay, and they know better than to come up with these clueless
lines.

>However, if you stand up for your rights in a t-shirt & shorts, or in 
>a business suit, that is AT LEAST as effective as doing it in drag. 
>Actually, probably more effective.  

Nobody's asking you to go to work in a dress. 

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:02:40 GMT

Richard Ottolini (stgprao@xing.unocal.com) wrote:

: I am not a member of the Republican Party, nor support their positions, but
: find some recent events interesting.  Like when one breaks past the 
: ideological rhetoric and ask "what if your [grand]daughter ..."
: sometimes they will give an answer that contradicts the ideology.
----------------
Unfortunately, that time, they didn't.  Both Bush and Quayle would 
(paraphrasing) "...hug that child and love that child..." but they'd
still want her to be in jeopardy of going to jail for her illegal
abortion, and to be in danger of losing his/her job, dwelling, (you
know the long, long list) for being lesbian or gay.  Neither would
lift a finger to change these circumstances.  I didn't find it
interesting in the least.

Mike Drayton  
mdrayton@sr.hp.com  (Hewlett-Packard Co., Santa Rosa, CA)
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:45:17 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <1992Aug18.094856.26423@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu
(Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug18.062422.3787@amhux2.amherst.edu>
>twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>>Getting fucked can be a lot of fun, but do you think it would be masculine
>>>enough for him?  
>
>>As long as he can be on top.
>
>My own impression, maybe amounting to little more than a
>prejudice, is that the butcher they are (or think they are),
>the faster those heels go up.


Jess,
	For a while I was annoyed that you posted this observation
	before I had a chance to -- but then, you would.  You
	have *so* much more experience, dear.  ::snap::

	My own experience with strayt boys is not vast, but it
	tends to confirm the observation you make (along with
	lots of other gay men I've talked to).

-R (getting goosebumps just thinking about it)


--
There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
							-- Genet
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:26:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.120043.27426@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:

>Of course the weather is horrible 9 months out of the year, but the
>skiing is pretty good.

Actually, after living for 6years previously in Michigan it
can't be all that bad... besides, this Louisiana boy misses
the green grass!


-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: Re: st. cole porter
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:10:25 CDT

In article <Bszq1F.9DK@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:

>Thttttthpppp!  Ella (or her arranger) censored Porter something
>fierce.

Not near so fierce as others.  These are off the top of my head,
so I may have some references wrong:

"I Get a Kick out of You," as we all know, contains the lines:

       Some get a kick from cocaine
       I'm sure that if I took even one sniff
       That would bore me teriff-
       ically too...

The published music reads:

       Some like a bop type refrain
       I'm sure that if I heard even one riff...

In the movie "Night and Day" it is sung (by Ethel Mermen?)

       Some go for perfume from Spain
       I'm sure that if I took even one sniff...

Spanish perfume?

Then there's "My Heart Belongs to Daddy," which includes the intro:

      I used to fall
      In love with all
      Those boys who maul
      Refined ladies
      But now I tell
      Each young gazelle
      To go to hell..
      I mean Hades!

I have seen a published version that reads:

     I used to fall
     In love with all
     Those boys who maul
     The young cuties
     But now I find
     I'm more inclined
     To keep my mind
     On my duties.

Which is hardly less suggestive, but avoids the word "hell."

"I Hate Men" from Kiss Me Kate includes:

   Then ever marry one of them I'd rest a virgin rather
   For husbands are a (boring?) lot, and often quite a bother
   Of course I'm rather glad that mother *had* to marry father
   Oh I hate men!

The movie version changed this:

   Of course I'm rather glad that mother *deigned* to marry father...

And it's not just Cole Porter who was so bowdlerized for
Hollywood.  Even good ol' wholesome Oscar Hammerstein
got reworked.  In Carouse, Arminy ("Been married a year")
sings of her ordeal:

    The clock just ticks your life away
    There's no relief in sight
    It's cookin' and scrubbin' and sewin' all day
    And god-knows-whattin' all night

In the movie version, Arminy sang:

    ...And not much sleepin' at night

Some movie I can't recall, one of those every-Irving-Berlin
song-ever-written-performed-badly extravangazas, included
"Heat Wave."  You know, the song that goes:

  ...She started the heat wave
  By letting her seat wave.

Not in California.  There

   ...She started the heat wave
   By letting her feet wave.

Her feet?  Somehow that seems worse.

Same song, same movie.  Original lyrics:

   It's so hot the coldest maiden feels just as warm as a bride

Movie lyrics:

   It's so hot a hefty maiden lost thirty pounds from each side.

How do you lose pounds from a side?  Odd.

I could go on.

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 19 Aug 1992 17:39:37 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

As part of my continuing effort to degrade the 
quality of soc.motss, I've decided to respond to 
mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) (welcome back, Mara!), 
who in article <1992Aug19.170820.21862@panix.com> writes:

> And, while I was thinking of my speaking voice when I wrote that,
> I've also come across some tapes of me singing, especially one that
> I did when I was practising Balkan singing, that I think sounded
> downright impressive.

Ooooh!  Balkan singing!  There aren't many motos I'd
say this to, Mara, but you can glottal stop in my ear 
any time you'd like.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:37:57 GMT

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
: In article <1992Aug19.173104.22795@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
: > (Whatever a "feminine gay name" is supposed to be, someone clue me in.
: > "Lance?"  "Steve?"  "Antoine?")
: 
: "Wendy" "Max" "Michelle" "Polly" "Kathryn" "Amanda" 
: "Ailsa" "Melinda"
: 
: or maybe we simply wouldn't exist in a *truly* butch
: universe.

Can I exist too, Melinda?


Kathy
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:41:37 GMT
 <1992Aug20.141127.8608@osf.org> <1992Aug20.200844.18753@reed.edu>
Organization: University of Maine System

i'm in the process of wearing out my leather things, and
will not buy anymore...  *sigh*  ethics and sex lives
are sometimes incompatible, as i LOVE leather outfits,
the smell of leather, the look of wimmin dressed in
leather, the jolt of confidence i get from wearing a leather
jacket (ok, so it's a crutch, i admit it, but it's
fun to swagger around in a leather jacket!)...  BUT, i do
not eat dead animals, nor do i wish to wear them.  on $327
a month, i CAN'T throw out all of my shoes, but i can
replace them with others when they come down to needing to be
replaced.  all i really ever wear is sneakers anyway...

and yes, i do realize that leather is a byproduct of cow-
murder.  so?  all the more reason not to buy it...

*sigh*  i still whimper in sex shops...

                                       -ailsa
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Those Who Are Gone Now
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:55:57 EDT

In article <16q0u2INNpi7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, tachyon@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon) writes:

> Randi Pollard (I hope I'm not mangling his name)
> 
> I don't know their net addresses.

randi@sporty.col.oh.us

Hi, Randi.  

-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Snaps
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 01:54:23 GMT


In article <71486@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew
Melmon) writes:

They must be adding something to the water out west.  First
Sargon the Butch and now Melmon the Moron.  Go figure.

>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>>In article <1992Aug17.192110.24090@macc.wisc.edu> 
>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

Dumb-fuck, if you're not quoting someone, you can edit off
the citation line.  There wasn't a syllable by me in your
posting.

>This pompous, withered prune of an asshole is coddled
>entirely too much on this group.  

He can't be more than three years older than you, and to
judge by his GIF, he's in a wonderful state of preservation.
But then, he can think, something you clearly can't do.  And
you might try a prune now and then, to get rid of what
you're so obviously full of.

>On the subject of generational failings, yes - 'tis true our
>underachievements are many.

You have to be at least 33 to have voted (at age 21) for
Reagan, as you mention doing in another posting.  That alone
is underachievement on a monumental scale.  It isn't a
generational failing, however, it's clearly a personal one.

>No hippie-yuppie conversion into stock-dealing lizards
>bankrupting the nations economy as surely as it's 'social
>institutions' with junk bonds and bank fiascos.

That's your man Reagan, you know.  The guy you voted for
caused all that.  You, you're the yuppies, didn't you know?

>Surely, we must hang our heads in shame.

Indeed, that's not nearly enough penance for the damage
you've done to our society.  But your buddy Quayle, he'd fix
it if he could.  He'd put bigots like you right on the top
rung of social success, the new cultural elite you so
approve of.

>But one thing we will do - Lord Arne - and one thing that
>shall earn us the undying gratitude of generations to come
>(and the envy of that generation which proceeded your own,
>and which was the first to get grapped on by your Boom Fuck
>legions):

>We're going to bury you.

If, as one might well assume, you're talking about your glee
at the prospect of millions dying in the coming years,
members of what you so disdainfully and cruelly call the
Boom Fuck legions, then indeed you are a ridiculous parody
of a human being, really beneath contempt.

Something's pretty rotten at Apple, and you're it.

I fervently hope you're not family.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: rgaudre@triton.unm.edu (Ron Gaudreau)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: BOINK! BOINK! BALLOONBOINK IN ALBUQUERQUE!
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:06:19 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

The best years I've spent at the balloon fiesta was crewing for my friends
from Denver. It is loads of fun and you usually end up with a balloon
flight and, if your a 'virgin', then you go through the initiation.

Loads of fun and you meet some special people. Wouldn't trade it
for anything in the world !!!!!

My 2 cents worth......

-- 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Ron Gaudreau              | rgaudre@triton.unm.edu  
    University of New Mexico      | 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 09:01:33 GMT


In article <1992Aug23.033436.18138@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>many of my friends have had the same charges levelled
>against them.

Wherever do you find them?*

>I have seen "less butch" gay men give the straight-acting
>ones a ration of shit, for what appeared to me to be
>jealousy.

What appears to you being Absolute Truth, of course.

>Truth is, the straight-acting ones were just being natural.

Natural *what*?  Natural fake, like your character armor?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: st. cole porter
Date: 15 Aug 92 07:48:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug15.074829.16604
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <Bszq1F.9DK@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:
>For Rodgers and Hart, I highly recommend Frederica von Stade's *My
>Funny Valentine*; von Stade sings the songs absolutely straight,
>to the original orchestrations, no operatic mannerisms. (Thanks to Jon
>Conrad for turning me on to this one.)

I think I'd rather listen to _Classical Barbra_, if I felt like a
cross-over record.

If there's any sound more unnerving than fingernails on a
blackboard, it's an opera singer trying to sing popular
favorites.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer