From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Better to be slaughtered than never to have lived? Re: Meat eaters (LONG)
Keywords: meat vegans vegetarian food veal factory farms
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 09:11:33 GMT

g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:

>Is it true that animals are generally slaughtered to produce meat?  This is
>my primary objection, the information about adverse conditions on factory
>farms was provided only to refute an earlier poster's claims about the idyllic
>lives food animals lead.

	I take it, then, that you are not adverse to hunting as opposed to
slaughter, or do you feel a division of labor in society to be repugnant?

>The number of small family farms in Canada is declining at a rapid rate.
>"In 1988, Statistics Canada reported that 150 Canadian farm families were
>giving up farming every day--one family every 10 minutes.  The number of
>family farms has fallen by half since 1951 and the number of farmers from 21
>to four percent.  The result is that now 20 percent to 25 percent of farms in
>Canada hold 80 percent of *all* the farmland.

	This closely models the USA, so long as you figure any farm that is
incorporated.  The one I grew up on is.  It only makes sense to incorporate
given the laws farms have to deal with today.  It is not the idyllic scene
on "Hee Haw" any more -- it's EPA regulations on the diesel fuel tank, and
OSHA regulations on the welder in the shop, plus the various means a
farmer can lose his land, house, equipment, and everything else for a
simple breach of civil law.  Incorporation separates the farm from the
private life of the farmer, legally, and is another strawman being used
to promote image over substance where farming and ranching is concerned.

>  Factory farming is directly
>responsible for eliminating not only thousands of family farms, but also
>thousands of jobs in agriculture:  one factory farmer alone can maintain 300
>veal calves, up to 12,000 pigs, or 70,000 chickens.

	I could do this using only 6 hours per day given good facilities.

>  Feeding and waste
>removal are automatic, as is collection of eggs." 

	God forbid gravity be made use of?  Let see, what was the motto
of the plumber?  "Shit rolls downhill and payday is on friday."  I submit
that a factory farm is any farm where gravity causes the waste to flow
somewhere without me shoveling it into the manure spreader.  Of course,
I still have to empty the waste bin onto the local fields, but it is
entirely different because gravity is in use, not manual labor.  What
else does the book say, Rosemary?  Do I still need to have an outhouse,
or is indoor plumbing the mark of a "factory farm"?

>Would you also say that no employers mistreat their workers, because it would
>be counterproductive?  The loss in productivity is balanced by the money saved
>by spending less on housing and food.

	In the case of animals, spending less on housing and food *IS* a
loss in productivity.  Prices are by weight and health, and you cannot just
fire or lay off a scrawny calf and hire a replacement.  If that were so,
you can bet I would have never spent any time hand-feeding pigs or calves,
nor would I have spend a dime on antibiotics for them.  Why, I could have
just hired more healthy animals!  Gee, why didn't I think of that before?!?

>The traditional methods of confinement and malnourishment in raising veal
>calves are still legal and in use.  Canadian Vegans for Animal Rights is
>currently campaigning for legislation to make these practices illegal.

	And they ignore the forest for the trees.  Did you know cattle
stealing is still a hanging offense is most states here in the USA?  Did
you also know it's usually a criminal offense to not have a hitching post
in front of a saloon?  Aside from wondering how a malnourished veal calf
will ever be worth taking to market, the fact that such treatment is
legal (and I suspect normal animal-treatment laws are ignored in these
cases) in no way means it is widespread or that it is worth pursuing
given the abundant cases of true neglect and abuse that still happen
to the family dog and cat as examples.  Canadian Vegans for Animal
Rights ignores the fawns that get run over by the combine, their only
mistake being lying still while the machine harvests the oats they
considered cover, and instead concentrates on the cases that might
pluck a few heart-strings.  To be quite honest, this shows that the
argument died long ago, and all that can be done is pleading.

	Plead somewhere else -- we've better things to do.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >