From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: I'm God.
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:00:53 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Oct2.045921.28374@nuchat.sccsi.com> kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes:
|I was just passing through, when I came upon this gem.  I just couldn't
|pass it up...

Good.

|In article <69367@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|>In article <1992Sep29.164931.27666@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
|>|In article <68750@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|>|}For I believe - that's why.  Simple, but that's my reason - there maybe
|>|}a lot of reasons why I believe, but the fact that I do is my reason.
|>|
|>|Good reasoning there, Richard.  You come up with two tests for me, and it
|>|turns out that Jesus can't pass either of them, either.  So you fall
|>
|>You asked me to prove you godness - Jesus did not.  
|
|No.  Rather, "Jesus" (or, rather, his followers) as you to accept his
|godness without proof at all.

No proof?  Well it is proof that you don't accept.  Jesus' followers
wrote and documented a lot of what Jesus did, so that we could beleive
and have eternal life.  Luke wrote in Acts that after His resurrection,
Jesus for the next forty days gave many convincing proofs that he was
alive.  

I guess your have better sources that contradict all of this.

|*Anyone* can *claim* to be godlike.  Few, if any, can prove themselves up
|to it.
|
|Sorry, but I'll take proof over blind acceptance any day.

Jesus didn't claim to be godlike but to be God.  The testimony of what
he did and what he requires of us (to beleive) has been passed down
and we have it today.  Jesus KNEW that he was going back to the
Father and sit at his right hand and so he told Thomas, that he was
blessed to see and believe, but more blessed are those who don't see
and do believe.  

I ask, if this is really the way it happened (which I believe), then
what more could be done to document it???????????

|>Much less you 
|>conviently forgot my final response - TIME WILL TELL - I've made my
|>decision to follow Christ - you've made yours to not follow Him.
|
|Of course, your belief is that you won't know until you're dead, right?

We know today.

|So, if your beliefs are wrong, then it's entirely possible that time *won't*
|tell, because you won't have a consciousness with which to evaluate your
|beliefs post-mortem.

For the sake of the argument, what if we are wrong - what have we lost?
For we are living fulfilled lives today.  However, if we are right,
what have you lost??????

Every one can know - it is a manner of faith and not works.  One's
pride can't save them.  Nor is one's desire to hold onto something
worth losing eternity for.

|>|back on the "I believe - that's why".  Thank you for the abbreviated
|>|summary of the emptyness of your understandings. 
|>
|>I claim very little knowledge.  I am not that well read, but I guess
|>your knowledge is so great that you can't say that OR is that your pride?
|
|Let me get this straight:  you are not well read (by your own admission),
|and you claim to know very little, yet you somehow decide to believe in
|all this unnecessary and untested gobbledygook *anyway*?  Whatever for???

For eternal life.  

Again, for the sake of the argument, what do I lose, since I live to my 
understanding a fulfilled life?  What do you risk losing?

|>|                                                 Clear, concise, not
|>|uncommon, and a stupid thing to base a matter of life or death on.
|>
|>Believing in Jesus the Christ, God's Son, Creator of ALL that exists,
|>is far better than believing in one's own understanding (that is putting
|>your trust in your own ability to know everything.)  
|
|Interesting that you equate lack of belief in "Jesus" with belief in one's
|own understanding of everything.
|
|Sorry, but the two are not equivalent.

Agreed.  But belief in _one's only merits over those of Christ_ is
the _rejection of Christ the selection of oneself_ as the guiding force 
for your life - both for now and eternity.

|I have no belief in this "Jesus" you believe so strongly in.  At the same
|time, I do not believe myself to be all-knowing.  Indeed, it is precisely
|*because* I do not know everything that I have no belief in this "Jesus".

You do believe there was a historical Jesus, correct?

|Specifically, I do not know enough to evaluate the truth (or falsehood) of
|the claims about "Jesus" (e.g., the afterlife benefits of belief in this
|figure), and thus reserve final judgement on such issues until the data are
|in.  However, I *can* say that I find it unlikely that such an internally
|inconsistent belief set (one which, in the same breath, says that God is
|omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent, and that God *also* created
|the universe in such a way as to enable, if not encourage, human suffering)
|is correct.

The plan for man was that of good - God said that he saw all the he
had created and it was good.  Satan deceived mankind and so the sin nature
entered the human race.  The human suffering is a result of that.  Man
had to have a free will or else he would be just a robot.  God warned
him not to take part in the 'tree of knowledge of good and evi' - man
disobeyed, as we continue to do today.  Man by nature became seperated
from God.  God through Jesus the Christ has provided a way for us to
relate to himself through faith - not by man ability but by God's gift.

|In any case, if your knowledge is so limited, and you are not very well-read,
|then on what do you base the notion that belief in "Jesus" is better than
|belief in one's own ability to cope with the real world?

I know how weak and insufficient I am, but I know what a difference 
Jesus has made - He has changed my life.

|Perhaps *your* ability to cope with the real world is severely limited.
|I don't seem to have that much of a problem with it, myself.

What do you call 'much of a problem'?

|>What can you
|>do about your the extension of your own life 
|
|Quite a bit, as it turns out.  For instance, you can exercise.  You can
|eat in a healthy fashion.  You can get sufficient sleep at night.  You
|can avoid taking stupid chances.
|
|There's a *lot* you can do to extend your lifespan.

See how much one can do, when it come time for one to die?

|>or can you even make yourself grow taller.  
|
|Beats me.  Why is it relevent?

It is a teaching from Jesus to show how little control we have over
this physcial world in which we live.  If we can't really do anything
here, how can we merit the favor of God, who made us - we have all
come short of the glory of God.

|Let me put it this way: you *have* this belief in "Jesus", and I'll bet
|that *you* can't make yourself grow taller, either.

No I can't.  That's the point.

|If I'm right about that, then it means that you have *no advantage* in
|believing the way you do, at least with respect to growing taller.
|
|>I preach Jesus as Lord - who or what do you say is lord of
|>your life????????
|
|I can't speak for Jim.
|
|But I can tell you this: *I* am "lord" of my life.  *I* control what I
|do and what I do not do.  I place none of the blame and none of the credit
|for the results of my decisions on anyone but myself (where such decisions
|do not primarily involve anyone else).

Jesus offers you the opportunity to remove the blame, for he has paid the debt.

|I make no assumptions about "divine" help.  I rely primarily on myself to
|get through life.  If such "divine" help exists and decides to intervene,
|I will accept it (provided that it is advantageous for me to do so).  So
|far, I've seen no sign of such assistance, so I have no reason to believe
|it exists.

It is amazing that one can look at the beauty of nature, for why should
there be beauty without a creator, and yet not wonder or see the hand
of a master designer in it all.  We look at trival things (paintings
and buildings) and say man he did a good job, but look how insignificant
and small man's works are and how big and beautiful the universe is.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts


-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |