HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: vehicle id numbers
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:57:36 EST
Reply-To: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


In: Message-ID: <651#mtinews.mti.com>
    adrian@mti.mti.com (Adrian McCarthy) writes:

AM>Hours after taking delivery of my new Honda Civic EX, I discovered a
AM>discrepancy between the vehicle ID number on the car and the one in the
AM>paperwork.  The tenth digit on the car is an N.  On the paperwork it's
AM>an M.  I called the dealer to get it straightened out, figuring that it
AM>was no big deal -- somebody just transcribed it wrong.

AM>The dealer was very concerned, because the original factory paperwork
AM>from Japan has an M.  I checked the car again, and the dash plaque and the
AM>door-jamb sticker both have N.  The dealer has decided he'll "correct" the
AM>paperwork.

I think that dealer probably is pretty concerned.. the tenth digit
represents the MODEL YEAR, by giving you a car with an "N" instead of
an "M" he may have given you a "1992" instead of a "1991"; or a 1991
model that is technically a 92. It's reason for them to be concerned
in any event.

AM>My insurance guy tells me that VINs have a checksum digit to help detect
AM>typos, and it's unlikely that both combinations are valid VINs.  How can
AM>I be sure which VIN is valid?

Off hand I think it's the ninth digit that is the checksum, but I
don't know the algorithm for figuring it out.

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: john@wa3wbu.UUCP (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: '92 F150 transmission question
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:34:41 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


   I have a 1992 Ford F150 4X4 with 302 V8 and 4-speed automatic overdrive
transmission (non-electronic). I have a question regarding the shifting 
characteristics of this unit. Everything appears to work normally but
it appears to shift differently than my previous vehicle ('75 E150
Econoline). While driving in high gear I make a stop at a red light,
when I go to take off it almost acts like the transmission was still
in 2nd gear and doesn't actually make the shift to 1st until I step on
the gas. I've confirmed this by placing and shift selector in "1" 
before giving it gas and then I don't feel the transmission downshift
on take-off. 

   Since I havn't driven any other of these new trucks I don't know if
what I'm feeling is actually the transmission downshifting and is
normal or it is something different. Also, wouldn someone out there
have the gear ratios for the 4 speeds of the transmission ?  I've
decided to look for input here before checking with the local Ford
dealer. I'm looking forward to any input. Thanks!



						John




-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: matth@progress.COM (Matthew J. Harper)
Subject: Re: Don't buy japanese(WHY?)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:12:24 GMT

garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:


>In article <BOWERS.92Mar25115148@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>>
>>You guys are still using _MANUFACTURERS_ data for power.  What makes
>>you think that 1 hp on _Honda's_ dyno will exactly equal 1 hp on
>>_Chyrsler's_?  Do you think that the guys who stick those numbers on
>>the ads really tell the truth?

>Good point, but we need something to go on....

>Gary

  Not such a good point.  1HP == 1HP.  It's a standard measurement, just like
a foot or a volt is.

-Matth

--
          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)
From: lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Common electrical problem
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:40:49 GMT
Reply-To: lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

If your wall electrical outlet doesn't provide, what can be wrong?

ok. ok.  this has next to nothing to do with autos!  but the 
mentality requires the same.  what do we say about a new newsgroup...
rec.homes.repair?????

Terence
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: irwin@yertle.Colorado.EDU (IRWIN JULIE R)
Subject: Re: Sexism in the sale of cars.... A Quick Questionaire...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:02:16 GMT

commisso@kodak.com (Susanne Commisso) writes:

>In article <5APR199220011430@vx.acs.umn.edu>, ae01045 writes:
>|> In article <1992Apr3.163151.2388@SSD.intel.com>, cfj@SSD.intel.com (Charlie Johnson) writes...
>|> >One year my wife and I went to the Portland Auto Show and were walking
>|> >through the Toyota display.  Not really interested in looking, just passing
>|> >through.  My wife was walking in front of me and this salesman basically 
>|> >stepped between us and started a hard sell.  He acted like my wife was 
>|> >a non-person!  
>|> 
>|> I am afraid I had the same feeling with some dealers when I bought a
>|> car. They were absolutely ignoring my wife. Only when it came to buying
>|> and my wife wanted something different than me and they had that, 
>|> suddenly they noticed her. 
>|> 
>|> Most of the time I got mad when they didn't even shake my wife's hand 
>|> when we left.
>|> 
>|> Peter


>Well, as a woman I can tell you that this angers me more than anything.  I
>have been looking for a car and a friend of mine has been coming with me
>shopping.  I had a Chrysler dealer actually step between the two of us and
>turn his back to me and start talking to my friend.  When he finally told
>this guy that I was buying the car he decided to talk to me.  By that point
>he had already lost my business.

>susan


I have had similar experiences bringing a male friend with me to look at
cars.  It embarrassed him more than it did me-- I don't think he realized
before how sexist people can be, especially in the world of cars.  I found
myself doing a little dance to get the sales guy to look at/talk to/shake
hands with me instead of my friend (who isn't even my husband).


The most annoying thing is when they talk to me about the color of
the cars, then turn to my friend and explain all about the horsepower,
etc.




Are women sales people better?  There are more of them around these
days, but I've never dealt with one.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: snd@elan.cs.princeton.edu (Stefanos Damianakis)
Subject: Qs: LEASE QUESTIONS and '92 Prelude Si Info 
Followup-To: snd@cs.princeton.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Princeton University
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:08:17


I am almost ready to pick up a '92 Prelude Si and would like ask a few
questions:

1. I know the '92 has been redone, but I briefly read in a mag that the '93
will be "moving up". Does anyone know anything about this? I would hate to
pick up a '92 and then find the '93 was so much better...

2. The lease is about $330/month (48 months), what other cars are in this
class/price that i should look at...

3. what are the pitfalls of leasing, what should i look out for, ie i don't
want to get nailed by the fine print.

Thanks for any help,

-stef


Xref: sparky rec.autos:11329 seattle.general:816 pnw.general:610
From: rhorwell@bcsaic.UUCP (Roland Faragher-Horwell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: JEFF JACOBSEN / PEUGEOT OWNER
Keywords: Peugeot 504
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:54:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: bcsaic.70978
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Computer Services ATC, Seattle

Sorry for the noise everyone - Jeff Jacobsen, please send me a US mail
address or phone number where you can be reached.  Your net address is 
inaccessible to me.

Thanks

Roland 
Northwest Citroen Owners' Club

rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
From: pushp@nic.cerf.net (Pushpendra Mohta)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 1982-1983 Mercedes Benz 300 Series Caveats ?
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:01:49 GMT
Organization: CERFnet


I promised a friend the wisdom of the net :-)
She wants to buy a 1982 or a 1983  Mercedes 300 Turbo Diesel.
What should she be aware of in particular  ? 

Email replies will be appreciated.

best
--pushpendra

p.s. This for my own edification: Can some one explain the difference
     between the various MBZ models in those years ?
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: American engines oversized,underpowered ?
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:06:08 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, San Francisco

In article <1992Apr16.125337.3943@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> kerrat@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Adrian T Kerr) writes:
>In Britain it is widely believed that American's drive oversized cars with
>ridiculously huge engines. Since I know that recently the Honda accord (perhaps
>known as something different in America) was the number 1 selling American
>car ,and Japanese cars are becomeing more popular in America , are engine sizes
>of typical family saloons getting smaller?
>
>I own a Fiat Tipo with a 1.4 litre engine. This is reasonably powered for
>everyday driving (I've managed an indicated 120mph on a journey to Edinburgh).
>It is also one of the roomiest cars I've ever travelled in ,able to seat 5 in
>comfort. The interior decor is nothing to speak of but is pleasant.
>
>If cars in America ARE as ridiculously large as we are led to believe is it not
>about time that "Yank tanks" were designed more sensibly.
>
>I saw an article in a magazine reviewing the cadallac seville. It did sound
>like it was indeed an exellent car ,however it was enormous. Is this the normal
>size of your average American sedan? My Fiat Tipo has a 100 inch wheelbase and
>is roughly 120 inches long and has enough interior room even for a quartet of 
>large 6 foot 2 adults.
>
	stuff deleted .......
>
>Thanks Aidy.

You folks in Europe forget the main reason why you folks have small cars
and engines, GAS PRICES!!!!

Here in the US gas (petrol) cost about 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of gas in
Europe.  Based on this large discrepensy, the US auto industry, until
recently, didn't have to produce efficient small cars and engines.

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: conser@CS.ColoState.EDU (glenn eldon conser)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Warming up your car
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:46:28 GMT
Organization: Catatonic State University

In article <1992Apr14.153329.6806@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) writes:

	[original post deleted]

>The ideal way to warm up a car is to put as few revolutions on the car as
>possible while still warming it up. The best way to do this would be to
>climb a hill in high gear at about 2000 rpm, under full throttle (essentially
>lugging the engine slightly). This would warm it up the quickest. BTW , the
>wear caused by warming up a car can be reduced by installing and using an
>engine heater. (It also gives quick heater response on cold mornings).

Not to flame, but it seems to me that if oil flow is very poor right after 
startup (due to low temp), then this would be a very bad time to be 
putting the engine under stress, ie climbing hills at full throttle.
It is true that an engine will warm up more quickly when the car is driven
as opposed to sitting because the engine produces more energy when
moving the vehicle.  More energy = more heat.  However, the engine is under 
more stress when it is producing this power.  IMHO, it's better to have 
the engine sitting idle while it is more suseptible (sp?) to wear from
cold oil.

Just an opinion.  Any others?


-- 
See Ya'
--Glenn
	Oklahoma!  Oklahoma!  Oklahoma!  Oaklahoma!  Oaklahoma!
					- Steve Martin, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: smyung@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Sung Myung)
Subject: 92'Integra Price.
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:15:38 GMT

Does anybody know the invoice and retail price of 92' Integra LS or
LS Special 3-door hatchback version? 
If you have any experience in buying these, would you inform
me what you paid? Thanks in advance.


From: rjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Schneider)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:38:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

  richard
koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz) writes:

>perhaps I'll rephrase my assertion to read '... any Diesel of significant
>output will provide negligable engine braking effect ...'  that will eliminate
>the disagreeing data-points from the original generalization.        

	What do you consider significant output? Richard didn't state if
	his mothers 300D was turbo or not, but the Mercedes 3l turbo
	diesel puts out 130HP. That's not that far off of what the
	Cummins in your truck puts out (160HP, right?). 

	BTW, I used to have a 1982 MB 300SD (with said 130 HP turbo
	diesel).  It did have less engine braking power than gasoline
	powered engines, but not a huge difference. It was slightly more
	than enough to be noticable.

Bob Schneider     rjs@fc.hp.com
From: u8acb@ohm.york.ac.uk (Alex Barclay)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: spark plugs
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:33:17 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

In article <1992Apr9.213700.26429@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>
>bosch platinum=great and relatively inexpensive($1.68 each)
>buy them with no reservations.
>-king bob

Well I've found that I can't use th Bosch Platinum on my current car (a
Renault 5 Alpine/Gordini Turbo). Instead I need some plugs made by Equyiem
(not sure about the spelling) These are also platinum but not a diddy cone
like the bosch but almost a full area. The down side is that they cost
30 pounds the set, or about $60. Which is a lot for only 4 cylinders.
The up side is that they last about 25K miles. Which at the moment is better
than can be said for the rest of the engine :-(

			Alex.
Xref: sparky rec.autos:10898 rec.music.misc:13734 rec.arts.movies:13280 alt.folklore.urban:11737 rec.arts.startrek.misc:3033 rec.arts.tv.soaps:13784
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.music.misc,rec.arts.movies,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: Free magazine from subsription services.
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:46:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Apr8.024637.9759
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

rgarg@tellabs.com (Rajesh Garg) writes:
: 
: I came across a company called "COLLEGETOWN MAGAZINE
: SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE" in New York.
: 
: Right Now they are offering this special offer:
: 
: You can call them and either give them the address
: label info from your old subscription or ask them a
: free trial offer subscription for one full year with
: a purchase of any magazine.
: 

Oh no - it is back again. 

Bill
From: hhd0@newshost.gte.com (Horace Dediu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Top Speed on MB 190E 2.3
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:14:50 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA

Could someone tell me the rated top speed of a Mercedes Benz 190E 2.3,
both for the manual and automatic transmissions.  I cannot find the
stats anywhere.

-- 
Horace Dediu               Virtue is its own reward.          GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111     Half a bee, speaking philosophically, must 40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hhd0@gte.com  ipso, facto, half not be. -Cleese     Waltham, MA 02254
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: American engines oversized,underpowered ?
Date: 17 Apr 92 08:22:46 GMT
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Originator: kevinh@nath


In article <1992Apr16.141839.7388@osf.org>, kenny@juniorx.osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
|> I tend to think so.
|> 
|> Case in point- Chevy Cavalier 2.0L I4 OHV. 88hp. I know there are Honda
|> (Acura) models w/smaller displacement and more hp's.


Interesting that. The standard output for a 2-litre engine in Europe
is in the 120-150 range, there are exceptions to this but that's about
the standard.

Eg 2.0 L engines (unless stated)

BMW  24v 150 PS
Opel  8v 122 PS
Opel 16v 150 PS
Ford     125 PS
Ford     150 PS (New Zeta)
Audi	 115 PS
Honda	 160 PS (VTEC 1600cc)
Rover     90 PS (1.4 K-series)
Ford	 230 PS (Cosworth)
Rover    140 PS (K-series)

All of these have a much higher output. I can't believe that the generally
lower speed limits in the US have such an effect on the US market cars bearing
in mind that there is a large market in the US for fast expensive cars?

Incidentally I think that most of the cars that these engines are fitted to
are not available in the US. Any comments? 

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: The GODs are telling you something (Was: Re: Common electrical problem
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:08:09 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr16.152023.6673@wpi.WPI.EDU> gregc@yaya (Gregory M Charland) writes:
>
>   Unfortunately, that won't help the problem.  Ya see, when you drag your
>butt across that nice cloth seat, you build up a static charge (proportional
>to the size of your butt and the width of the seat :), and when you touch
>the door to close it you dissapate that charge.
>   So, you can either:
>        a) hold a grounded metal part as you slide out of the seat.  This
>           allows the charge to be given off as it accumulates.
>        b) put a grounding wire in your shoe, slam the door on it so it
>           touches the ground,  (same thing, just more uncomfortable)
>        c) get vinyl or leather seats!

    OR you could (d) spray the seat with commercial fabric
    softener...a wonderful anti-static agent and a fraction of the
    price of the special purpose agents.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Subject: Re: Using the horn
Organization: RICOH California Research Center
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 21:09:12 GMT



   In more heavily congested urban areas, it is becoming more and more
   common for people to wait an extra moment before proceeding through a
   new green light. This is because so many morons are rushing the
   yellow, and running the red light.  If everybody rushed out into the
   intersection saying "well, my light is green", a great many of them
   would be right, but dead.

   If you ever do have a really good traffic day, and nobody delays you
   by refusing to slap the throttle, check your time to your
   destination.  I bet you can't save more than a couple of minutes.
   Also, why don't you try timing some of those 5 second intervals; I
   bet they are shorter than that.  I once timed "the longest red light
   in the world" that I hated, it was 55 seconds long (oops!).

   So, RELAX, leave 5 minutes earlier, take your time. And if it still 
   frustrates you, there are some excellent therapists in your area.
   Changing ones perceptions and attitudes is often easier than changing
   the world.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  chilton@crc.ricoh.com     (JEFFREY K. CHILTON)                    
~  RICOH CRC 2882 SAND HILL RD #115 MENLO PARK, CA 94025
~  RICOH doesn't know what I think. So, how could they condone this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: neff@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Robert Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Where did these teardrop headlights come from? (was Re: CRX )
Followup-To: neff@diva.berkeley.edu
Date: 7 Apr 1992 20:19:17 GMT
Organization: /etc/organizaton
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu
Summary: I thought mazda was copying the Viper (?)

In article <1992Mar26.180312.9764@eff.org> peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen) writes:
>In article  Andrew Scott Beals, abeals@autodesk.com writes:
>
>I've got to say, though, that Honda designing has been running a little
>too close to Toyota lately (actually, Mazda can be accused of this, too).
> The Del Sol's front has teardrop shaped low-beam headlights and seperate
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>small, round highbeams that give it an extraordinary resemblance to a
>Lexus SC-400, not yet fully grown.
>
>- Peter

These teardrop shaped, bulging headlight style, with a low hood 
in between.  Where did it really come from?  It is on all the new 
Mazdas (MX3 especially), though I have not noticed it as much 
on the Lexus.  I thought it was first on the Viper prototypes, 
and then on the Mazdas, and now Hondas?  Is that the right 
order of appearance?

-- Robert
From: koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:54:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: nosc.5352
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego

In article <1992Apr15.192224.15247@berlioz.nsc.com> alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn) writes:

>In article <5440@otc.otca.oz>, elson@otc.otca.oz.au (Elson Markwick) writes:
 
>If you look at the specs on a diesel
>engine you will notice a large difference in the air/fuel ratios between idle and
>load. 

of the order of 80:1 at idle and 20:1 at full load...

>|> As I mentioned in a previous post - try turning the engine over by hand with
>|> the throttle butterfly propped open.  I'll betcha it's just as hard as with it 
>|> closed.
 
and as I mentioned earlier...                                     
	turning *any* engine over 'by hand' proves *NOTHING* in this context
	engine braking arises from trying to pull intake air *AT* *HIGH*  
	*VELOCITY* PAST A RESTRICTION (closed throttle plate)...

	all that even *mentioning* 'turning over by hand' does is
	prove you to be clueless regarding the discussion at hand.

>As I mentioned in several previous posts (I'll go slow this time):
>
>D i e s e l    e n g i n e s    d o    N O T    h a v e   t h r o t t l e
>
>b u t t e r f l y    v a l v e s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I've looked at Navistar, Cummins, and Detroit diesels.  I have yet to see one
>with a throttle butterfly valve.  The only restriction in the air intake from
>the outside world is the air cleaner.  Engine speed is regulated by the amount
>of fuel injected AFTER compression, not by the amount of air fed in during the
>intake stroke.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: lester@naomi.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Women & Cars (Was: Re: Should I buy an Eclipse?)
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:15:51 GMT

In article <BM1wz3.Jpy@world.std.com>, kenny@world.std.com (Kenneth R Crudup) writes:
|> In article <CARL.92Apr1112937@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM
|> (Carl Heinzl) says:
|> >WOW!  I disagree with this 100%.  I cannot always anticipate what my
|> >future needs will be and for me to buy something that is more than
|> >what I need right now is not waste.  It would be more wasteful for me
|> >to have to buy something and buy it again in 6 months because I
|> >outgrew it.
|> 
|> I  included an "out" for such conditions- "...or more than you can under-
|> stand to need..." which is just saying getting something way over your head.
|> There's nothing wrong with planning for the future, but don't get a
|> HiFi stereo VCR if you're only ever going to watch it on a 19" B&W set.
|> (Don't laugh, I've seen it happen twice).

Maybe the person with the VCR was going to buy a good TV next year when
they have saved enough money to pay for it.  Now, would it make sense to
buy a cheapo VCR to use for a year and then buy both the TV and VCR two
years from now (when you could have had both after a year)?  The cheapo
VCR is an unnecessary expense given the long range plans.

The extrapolation to buying cars, etc. is left as an exercise for the
reader.

 - Les
From: maurice@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Maurice Liang)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:38:16 GMT
Subject: Viper Update
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.