From: eje@irenaeus.mlo.dec.com (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The Lord's Table (Part 1 of 2)
Date: 16 Aug 92 04:24:24 GMT
Reply-To: ewanco@kalvin.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <Aug.14.02.21.10.1992.27500@athos.rutgers.edu>, NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:

[This is in response to Eric James Ewanco's posting: 

>> Jesus Christ founded the FIRST New Testament church?  I'm afraid I
>> disagree -- he founded the ONLY New Testament church, Matthew
>> 16:18.  Jesus desired only one church, and gave the "keys" (a
>> symbol of authority) to Peter (Kepha, meaning Rock) to this church.
>> He wishes the church to be one - John 17:11, 1 Cor 12:13.

> Peter got some "keys"?  What are the keys?  And why Peter?

Matthew 16:17: Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for
this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.  And I
tell you that you are Peter [Aramaic Kepha, meaning Rock], and on this
rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you
bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth
will be loosed in heaven." That Peter is equivalent to Kepha is
demonstrated by John 1:42: "Jesus looked at him and said, 'You are Simon
son of John.  You will be called Cephas' (which, when translated, is
Peter)."  Keys are a symbol of authority and power; I believe that there
is an OT reference to this effect.  Peter was chosen because he
confessed that Jesus was the Christ.  And Jesus renamed him "Rock" -- a
very unusual thing, since before that time God alone was called Rock.
When God renames someone, as the OT demonstrates, it is very significant,
and indicates the plan that God has in store for them.  Simon bar Jonah
would be the foundation of Christ's one church.

> Please use scripture.  All the churches mentioned in the New Testament
> are local, independent churches.  There is no such thing as a
> Universal invisible or visible Church (assembly) I'm afraid.

I am using Scripture -- all of it, not just selected passages. NT
churches were local, but not independent (where do you see that stated
in Scripture?), joined into one universal church, as Jesus taught in the
verse I shared.  The Council of Jersulalem (Acts 15) demonstrates that
in no way were the churches independent, but rather had central organization.

> Next you'll be telling us that mere men can forgive sins 

Well, if you want me to -- It says this very thing in John 20:22f:
"And with that he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If
you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive
them, they are not forgiven.'"  Note that this is one of only two times
when God breathed on a man; the first was at creation.

> and that Mary is a co-saviour with Jesus Christ.

If you believe that any church says that Mary is a co-savior with Jesus
Christ, you are mistaken.  However, the Catholic church affirms what
Scripture makes clear: that Mary played an integral role in God's plan
of salvation.  Her obedience to God, her 'yes' answer to bearing God
Himself, undid the disobedience of Eve.  Eve said "no" to God, and all
of mankind fell.  Mary said "yes" to God, and all of mankind was saved.
Mary did nothing to contribute to the sacrifice of Calvary -- we are
only saved by Jesus, not by Mary -- but she did play a crucial role in
bringing us Jesus Christ, our savior.  

> Sorry, your mistaken.

Not if your read Scripture carefully.  All of these beliefs are in 
agreement with Scripture, and indeed come from Scripture.  Are your
church's beliefs in accordance with what Scripture says on these topics?

> K. Paulson
> 1109 16th Street North #1
> Fargo, ND  58102

Eric
--
/=============================================================================\
| Eric Ewanco - Software Engineer     For the rash and outrageous opinions ex-|
| Digital Equipment Corp, Maynard MA  pressed herein I alone am responsible;  |
| ewanco@kalvin.enet.dec.com          they do not belong to DIGITAL(TM).      |
\==============================- 2 Th 2:15 -==================================/
    "...[T]he greatest and most ancient Church known to all, founded and
    organized at Rome by [] Peter and Paul, [is] that Church which has the
    tradition and faith which comes down to us after having been announced
    to men by the Apostles.  For with this Church, because of its superior
    origin, all Churches must agree ...  and it is in her that the
    faithful everywhere have maintained the Apostolic tradition."
       -- St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, c. 180 A.D., 3,3,3.