HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: complement/compliment (was NG for gaijin topics.) (English+Kanji)
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:28:37 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

yusuke@hara.cs.keio.ac.jp (Yusuke Hiwasaki) writes:

>Hello Dave,

>>>Sure. And if Japan had one the war,...
>                         ^^^
>"won"??
>I am sorry but I could not help :-)

Yeah, 'won'. Old fumble fingers does it again :-)

>I thought somebody in America was trying to introduce a new system for
>spelling, to stop all the confusion of the spelling variation for the
>same pronunciation. Does anybody know about that?
>(I myself is not sure wheather this newsgroup is appropriate for this
>kind of topic, but this is only a follow-up.)

No, never heard of it. The spelling of English words is very messy
though, isn't it. I try and avoid words whose spelling I'm not sure
of such as 'unbelieveable/unbelievable'....

>I am grateful for information of the spelling-mistakes or grammatical
>mistakes I have made. :-)

IMHO this isn't particularly useful thing for the net as it takes up
a lot of bandwidth. If you wanted people to help you with your
spelling/grammatical mistakes I supppose you could ask people to
send you mail though. 

Typing mistakes mistakes are very very common thus most of the net
is full of all kinds of errors so I myself don't worry about it too
much unless it's something "official" and then I try and remember to
run it through a spelling checker ... but of course most of the time
I'm too much in a hurry :-)

And I think it's very very difficult to decide just what is a
grammatical mistake as there are lots of differences between various
Englishes ... Englishs? kinds of English!

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: claude@mno.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss (UB))
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.policy
Subject: Re: Tongue-twisters: was Re: NG for gaijin topics. (English)
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:10:53 GMT
	<JIRO.92Jul21122150@amber.math.keio.ac.jp>
	<ASAMI.92Jul22181012@pukeko.cs.Berkeley.EDU>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul23101201@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
	<JIRO.92Jul23124816@parsley.math.keio.ac.jp>
Distribution: fj
Organization: Matsushita Electric Works Ltd., Osaka, Japan.


Jiro> $@309q8l$&$s$L$s$r8@$C$F$k$o$1$8$c$J$$$N!#(J
Jiro> $@!V309q(J$@8l$@$+$i(J fj.misc$@!W$H$$$&IwD,$KJ86g$r$$$C$F$k$N!#(J
Jiro> $@$3$N$^$^$8$c!"!V309q8l$NEj9F$OFI$_$?$/$J$$$+$i(J$@3VN%!W$C$F$$$&(J
Jiro> $@9M$($,=P$F$3$J$$$+!"?4G[$J$N!#(J

I just cannot understand it! Are you being excessively strict with
your viewpoint? I think nobody is thinking that fj.misc is newsgroup
for foreigner or whatever. We are just using this group **TEMPORARILY**
because there's no other suitable group for it! Don't have you read
fj.news.group?? Don't you know about it? 
It's very easy to *SAY* : "Oh! These guys are talking about japanese
language, then it's better to post at fj.lang" or " Oh! Now these guys
are talking about Mt. Fuji, then it's better to post at fj.travel", etc.
However, have you think the *MOST IMPORTANT* link between all themes
is that we are seeing japanese society and japan from a different
viewpoint?
 Please understand it, and give us a break...

--
Claude Huss
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.sci.lang
From: claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss)
Subject: Re: Chinese accent symbols (was Re: Tohnyu Soup (Chinese food))
Organization: Matsushita Electric Works Ltd., Tokyo, Japan.
	<JIN.92Jul29170857@sky.astem.or.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul29175848@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
	<1992Jul29.141419.27749@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul30120838@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
	<LAO.92Jul30192326@seven.zoo.ncl.omron.co.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:01:46 GMT


Hi folks!

     According to my Chinese-English dictionary's english explanation
the 5th stroke is the "obscure" and "weak" pronnunciation.
     Perhaps they don't exist in mainland? That's why I never see it in
PinYin (The number 5). As I said before is supposely used in the end
of a setence to end it in a "familiar" or "informal" say.
     Perhaps some difference from Taiwanese-Mandarin and Mainland-Mandarin?

     Could someone explain these differences?
--
Claude Huss
Matsushita Electric Works, Ltd. Tokyo Research Labs.
Phone: +81-3-3452-4941	FAX: +81-3-3451-0793  Home:(044) 549-4913
Mita 5-13-2, Minato-Ku, Tokyo 108, JAPAN
DISCLAIMER:"I'm not singing, dancing, joking or even working for my employer"
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer)
Subject: Re: How to select News Groups
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: NEC America.
	<1992Jul23.233721.18424@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:54:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.233721.18424@rkna50.riken.go.jp> mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana) writes:

   In article <3pi.bbfk3@lab.ntt.jp> 
   kitagawa@will.ntt.jp (Masahiro Kitagawa) writes:
            .
            .
           $BCfN,!!(B(translated stuff deleted)
            .
            .

   >$B$@$+$i!"OCBj$KB($7$?%K%e!<%9%0%k!<%W$K$b%/%m%9%]%9%H$7$^$7$g(B$B$&!#(B
   >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     &>  Then, why don't we cross-post to the news-group according
     &>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     &>  to the subject.
     &>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   $B!!$?$$$X$s8=<BE*$G7z@_E*$JNI$$0U8+$G$"$k$H(B$B467c$7$?$b$N$G!">!<j$KCj=P$7$F>!<j$K(B
   $BLu$7$F$7$^$$$^$7$?!#(B
   $B!!$*@a2p$r$*5v$72<$5$$!#(B

       I was so moved to this pretty realistic and constructive opinion that
   I extracted and translated before permission from the author.
       Excuse me for my meddle-in (correct? I mean "osekkai").

$B;d$b:G6a(B$BEDCf$5$s$N8@MU$r$h$/FI$s$@$i!"KL@n$5$s$HF1$87kO@$K$D$-$^$7$?!#$H8@$&$N$O(B
fj.foreigner $B$K#X$K$D$$$F$-$8(B$B$r$@$7$?$i!"(Bfj.X $B$K(B crosspost $B$9$l$P0lHV$$$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(B
$B30?M%0%k!<%W$N(B1$B$D$NL\E*$OF|K\?M$H30?M$N4V$N(B communication $B$r$h$jNI$/$5$;$k;v$@$H;d(B
$B$O;W$$$^$9!#(Bfj.foreigner$B$,1Q8l$P$+$j$GFI$s$G$_$k$N$,BgJQ$@$+$i(B$B$"$-$i$a$kF|K\?M$O(B
$B$$$k$H;W$$$^$9!#$G$b$$$D$bFI$s$G$$$k%0%k!<%W$G$?$^$K1Q8l$N5-;v$,=P$?$i!"6=L#$"$k$+(B$B$i(B
$BFI$s$G$_$k2DG=@-$,9b$/$J$k$N$G$O$J$$$G$7$g$&$+(B? 

Lately after reading Mr. Tanaka's messages I had reached the same
conclusion as Mr Kitagawa. if something gets posted in fj.foreigner on
the subject X, crossposting to fj.X is the best thing to do. One of the
goals of the new group (at least in my mind) is to encourage
communication between Japanese nationals and "gaijins." Since
fj.foreigner will probably be mostly English, there are probably a lot
of Japanese who will be overwhelmed by the volumn, and so not read it. 
However, many of those same people (or at least some) would probably
take the time to try to read an English article if it were posted in a
group that they were interested in.

Mark Dyer		English: markd@tdd.sj.nec.com
NEC America, Inc.	 $BF|K\8l(B: markd@csl.sj.nec.com
Author relinquishes all rights, both real and imaginary, to the
content of this message.
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: dirceu@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (Dirceu G. Cavendish Jr.)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:55:44 GMT
	<2184@aegis.or.jp> <TOZAKI.92Jul30173831@sapphire.math.keio.ac.jp>
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Kyushu Institute of Tech., Iizuka, JAPAN.

In article <TOZAKI.92Jul30173831@sapphire.math.keio.ac.jp> tozaki@math.keio.ac.jp (Hidekazu TOZAKI) writes:

 >
 >  As you may already know, some complains that there are too many
 >English articles in fj.misc, and some of which have any relations in
 >both foreigners and miscellaneous subjects. It sounds very reasonable
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 >for me and I myself spend a lot of time to dig your article out from
 >many ones on making the new newsgroup.
 >
 >--
 >Hidekazu TOZAKI
 >Faculty of Science and Technology, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan.
 >E-mail: tozaki@nak.math.keio.ac.jp

My english dictionary says : MISCELLANEOUS - consisting of DIVERSE items
or members; having VARIOUS characteristics or capabilities.

What do you mean with articles not related with miscellaneous subjects???


D. Cavendish
Kyushu Institute of Technology
E-mail: dirceu@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp
Xref: sparky fj.misc:397 fj.news.group:2564
From: claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:06:17 GMT
Organization: Matsushita Electric Works Ltd., Tokyo, Japan.


    Some of Japanese netters has asked how often is the case
that you post something to fj gropus in English, and failed to
obtain any response at all.  If you have such experiences,
would you please post how many times you've post, and how many
times you successfully got any response?   This is what I Japanese
cannot guess at all.  Oh, recent fj.news.group and fj.misc would
be "exceptions," of course.


IMHO, I think this is not that important. If there were responses,
so what? It's not necessary to create a newsgroup?? I think this 
kind of question come only to make more base for more sophisms...
The key point is a group where foreigners as a minority group in
Japan could debate about their problems, impressions and to get
more information. I don't know the reason why everybody is calling
for cross-posting and etc. I think all members would do that if
they think that theme would be relevant to another newsgroup. I
don't understand the reason for so overprotection... 

Mr. Kuno, could you summarize the important points in the discussion
so far? I think it would easier for everybody and make difficult to
have flames meaningless...

ciao,

--
Claude Huss
Matsushita Electric Works, Ltd. Tokyo Research Labs.
Phone: +81-3-3452-4941	FAX: +81-3-3451-0793  Home:(044) 549-4913
Mita 5-13-2, Minato-Ku, Tokyo 108, JAPAN
DISCLAIMER:"I'm not singing, dancing, joking or even working for my employer"
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: dirceu@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (Dirceu G. Cavendish Jr.)
Subject: Re: Bread (Re: Instant Foods) [ENGLISH]
	<1992Jul14.063731.18709@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<SANTOS.92Jul15132150@melon.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp>
	<1992Jul16.055937.19725@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> <2054@aegis.or.jp>
	<1992Jul20.084920.20474@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> 	<MARKD
	<1992Jul22.055652.17416@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Organization: Kyushu Institute of Tech., Iizuka, JAPAN.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 07:50:10 GMT
Distribution: fj

In article <1992Jul22.055652.17416@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno) writes:

 >
 >    Hmm, I'm not sure about how garlic bread you mention looks like,
 >but I myself somtime paste garlic packed in a tube (easily found in
 >most supermarket) onto sliced french bread, along with butters, and
 >toast them.  I was calling them "garlic toasts."  Would you please
 >explain more about your garlic breads?
 >
 >    By the way, I also prefer rye bread, but its a bit difficult
 >to find nice one around my house...
 >
 >							  Yasushi Kuno

In Brazil we have delicious garlic breads served with huges steaks.
I failed to find such a bread in Japan. It is worthless to say i couldn't
find huges pieces of meat either. We say japanese meat has 2 dimensions only
(kidding).

D. Cavendish
Kyushu Institute of Technology
E-mail: dirceu@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp


Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson)
Subject: Re: Pre-SakeReport (Re: Some cooking Q.) [ENGLISH/Gaijin stuff]
Organization: School of Info. Science, JAIST Hokuriku, Japan
	<1992Jul14.063731.18709@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<SANTOS.92Jul15132150@melon.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp>
	<MARKD.92Jul15105839@stallman.csl.sj.nec.com>
	<1992Jul16.130534.24762@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<MAGNUS.92Jul21160818@is19e0s0
	<1992Jul24.021427.14730@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.021427.14730@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno) writes:

   Then, what is the difference between "water" and "tonic water" and
   "soda water?"

Well, I don't know the details, but tonic water sure goes better with gin! :)

Also, it contains quinine, which is a protection against malaria
(an excellent reason to have another g&t... :-)

       Talking about foods you do not know with non-native languages
   is quite difficult, isn't it?

$@$=$&$G$9$M$(!#(JGrowing up in the years before complete liberalization
of food imports in my country, I'm for instance completely dumbfounded
over the vegetable section in an ordinary Japanese supermarket.
So I divide them into two types: normal, and 'strange' vegetables...

Anyway, back to Sake related stuff. I went to the local $@<r20$5$s(J last
night and picked up a new type of shochu which they call "iichiko".
Really quite smooth taste; I might even be tempted to drink it dry on
the rocks.

On a related topic, there is a saying which translates also to
Japanese, that "in Rome, do as the Romans do". So in Japan, do as the
Japanese do. But what if the Japanese are no longer doing it in a
"Japanese style". 

Consider for example public gatherings. If any alcohol is served, it
will be beer. If any other type of alcohol is served, it will be
whiskey. Not shochu, not sake, only beer and whisky. (Sake only
possibly for some formal toasting). I, on the other hand, (can) drink almost
any type of alcohol *except* beer and whiskey. I WANT MY SAKE! :-)

Magnus

($@#C#H#A#TE*$J5-;v$@!)(J $@$=$&!"$M$(!#2?(J$@$+LdBj$,$"$k$N!)(J)
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Pre-SakeReport (Re: Some cooking Q.) [ENGLISH/Gaijin stuff]
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:14:12 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:
> Anyway, back to Sake related stuff. I went to the local $B<r20$5$s(J last
> night and picked up a new type of shochu which they call "iichiko".
> Really quite smooth taste; I might even be tempted to drink it dry on
> the rocks.

    Well, "iichiko" is one of major shochu brand.  Shochu in Japan
are devided into "Kou-grade" ($B9CN`(J) and "Otsu-grade" ($B25N`(J),
the former preserves flavors of the grains from which they are made,
wile the latter is rather close to pure alchohl, I thought.  Of
course, "iichiko" belongs to the former.

> On a related topic, there is a saying which translates also to
> Japanese, that "in Rome, do as the Romans do". So in Japan, do as the
> Japanese do. But what if the Japanese are no longer doing it in a
> "Japanese style". 

    Of course we quite often encounter the difference between
"traditional Japanese style" and "our style"; various thing
change rapidly in Japan.  By the way, we translate "in Rome..."
as$B!V6?$KF~$l$P6?$K=>$(!W(J, if translated again to English, it
might be: "in a village, do as the village's people do."

> Consider for example public gatherings. If any alcohol is served, it
> will be beer. If any other type of alcohol is served, it will be
> whiskey. Not shochu, not sake, only beer and whisky. (Sake only
> possibly for some formal toasting). I, on the other hand, (can) drink almost
> any type of alcohol *except* beer and whiskey. I WANT MY SAKE! :-)

    Well, I can't guess why beers has become "de fact standard
drinks" in Japan.  Maybe they are mass-produced and almost of
the same quality everywhere?  (Only four majer beer brewers in
Japan!)  By the way, I hope you can say loudly "I can't drink
beer, chuu-hai please!."  For the most drinking place.

						Yasushi Kuno
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: tozaki@math.keio.ac.jp (Hidekazu TOZAKI)
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Faculty of Sci. and Tech., Keio Univ., Yokohama, Japan.
	<2184@aegis.or.jp>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:38:32 GMT

In article <2184@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
 >! Except for fj.news.group and fj.misc I don't think I've ever posted
 >! to an fj.xxxx group. Why is that? Well, as recommended in
 >! news.accounce.newusers, I don't just jump in and post to *any*
 >! newsgroup. Instead, I read it for a while to see what people are
 >! saying.... Since I didn't see anything in other than Japanese (which
 >! unfortunately I don't understand) I didn't post anything. 

  Thank you for your commnent. I'm one who asked you why not post to
other fj groups. (But, believe me, I never say 'how many times' in
original Japanese postings.) I understand your situation and I also
hear from those who can read more or less Japanese.

  But when you have some questions on a certain Japanese things,
please don't hesitate to post other fj groups. Of cource, there are
some Japanese who dare not to read English articles, but IMHO, any
questions and other articles shall be (also) posted to proper
newsgroups to get more proper answers.

  As you may already know, some complains that there are too many
English articles in fj.misc, and some of which have any relations in
both foreigners and miscellaneous subjects. It sounds very reasonable
for me and I myself spend a lot of time to dig your article out from
many ones on making the new newsgroup.

And it's too easy for such Latin-alphabet-distasters to distinguish
English and Japanese articles than to distinguish Swedish and
Norwegian. :-)

P.S. Sorry, I can't responed to you till about 8/8.
--
Hidekazu TOZAKI
Faculty of Science and Technology, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan.
E-mail: tozaki@nak.math.keio.ac.jp
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Tongue-twisters: was Re: NG for gaijin topics. (English)
Date: 20 Jul 92 21:31:38 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer) writes:

>How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
>
>The 'w's seem to give Japanese people fits.

I've been using such things in the groups I lead and, yet, 'w' seems
to be difficult. For example, from the comic strip B.C. in the 
Daily Yomiuiri.

  Two guys sitting around contemplating the nature of the universe. 

  Wiley: Have you ever wondered why we're here, Peter?

  Peter: Wonder why we're where, Wiley?

  Wiley: Obviously, *you're* here to set a record for 'w's in one
         sentence.

On the other hand, here's one that I have lots of trouble with
(say it 10 X fast) that native speakers of Japanese don't have
much trouble with: "Toy boat, toy boat, .... toy boat."

Another one that I have troubles with is "Ha-shi-ri-da jin-ja".
It's a small place near my house and I like to walk there. But
when I go to tell somebody, my tongue turns into a corkscrew!

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: There's-only-one-Truth-ism?
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:43:52 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:

 >In article <2140@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
 
 >   mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana) writes:

 >   > davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

 >   >>I think this comes from two reasons. First off, it is pretty much a
 >   >>given in Japanese culture that there is one, and only one, correct
 >   >>way to do everything: thus there must be one, and only one correct
 >   >>English.  Second,      [omission]

 >   >	May I understand that your former opinion as follows?  Japanese
 >   >tends to have mentality that he/she believes or lets him/herself believe 
 >   >there's only one truth.  Too much simplification?

 >   Probably too much simplification but I think it's relatively true
 >   compared to other countries.

 >I beg to differ. I would say that Japanese culture is much *less*
 >one-correct-answer oriented than the Occidental culture. The nature of
 >Japanese interpersonal communication is strongly based on the idea
 >that truth and morals are relativistic. Conflicting opinions are not
 >necessarily wrong, incorrect, or immoral, but may be right for that
 >person or society.

While the Subject: line doesn't say it, this thread started out as
something about why Japanese have so much trouble learning other
languages. So I'm not talking about truth and morals (which I would
agree or more relativistic) but the forumlas that are used in much
of public (tatemae) life. It is no accident that when you walk into
a shop, each person greets you the same way, etc. 

IMHO, this doesn't really have so much to do with the Japanese
language itself as with Japanese culture. The problem comes with the
expectation that other culture-languages have the same relatively
few forumulas and that all one need do is learn them. But this
expectation doesn't get met when learning English which is used by
who knows how many cultures! So one the skills I ask people to
practice is saying the same thing in a variety of ways. 

 > On the other hand, so many Westerners believe in the concept that if
 >they believe in something, then non-believers must be wrong. What
 >other reason can you see behind coercions like "Let's Boycott Country 
 >X!", where X incidentally often seems to include Japan due to some
 >"immoral" actions like hunting the 'wrong' kinds of animals.

Perhaps so, but this is really a different subject.

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

Xref: sparky fj.misc:315 fj.news.group:2457
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: Tongue-twisters: was Re: NG for gaijin topics. (English)
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:10:32 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

jiro@math.keio.ac.jp (TANAKA Jiro) writes:
> $B$3$N$h$&$JOCBj$O!"2a5n$K$b(J sci.lang.japan
> $B!J$@$C$?$+!"(Jsoc.culture.japan $B$@$C$?$+!K$G!"(J
> $B;6!9$d$i$l$?$3$H$G$9!#(J
> fj.misc $B$OE,@Z$J%K%e!<%9%0%k!<%W$G$O$J$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(J
> $B$?$H$(!"(Jfj.life.foreigner $B$_$?$$$J$b$N$,=PMh$?$H$7$F$b!"(J
> $B$3$&$$$&OCBj$P$+$j$@$H!"0UL#$J$$$G$9$M!#(J

    In summary, Mr. Tanaka is saying that "such stuff was alredy
seen on sci.lang.japan or soc.culture.japan too often, and fj.misc
is not a right place to do that.  If we get fj.life.foreigner or
something alike, it'll be meaningless if it were to be swamped by
this kind of topics."

   ($B>e$NMWLs$G$9(J)

    But, excuse me, I do not think so.  Isn't this a kind of
S/N (signal/noise ratio) argument again?  No group with zero
noise are posible at all, and who determine what is a signal and
what is a noize?

  $B$9$$$^$;$s!"$=$N$40U8+$K$OH?BP$G$9!#$3$l$C$F$^$?$>$m(JS/N$BO@5D$J(J
$B$s$8$c$J$$$G$9$+(J? Noise$B$N$J$$%0%k!<%W$J$s$FIT2DG=$@$7!"C/$,(JNoise
$B$H(JSignal$B$N6hJL$r$9$k$s$G$9$C$F(J?

    And isn't it nice that we can intermix Hiragana and English
together in such discussion?  Sorry if we can use Hiragana in
sci.lang.japan regulary.

  $B$=$l$K!"$R$i$,$J$H1Q8l$,:.$<$i$l$k$+$iJXMx$@$C$F$$$&$N$b$"$k$o(J
$B$1$G$7$g$&(J? $B$*$C$H!"$b$7(Jsci.lang.japan$B$G$$$D$b$R$i$,$J$,;H$($k$+(J
$B$i!"$C$F$$$&$s$J$i<h$j>C$7$^$9$1$I!#(J

						     Yasushi Kuno
Xref: sparky fj.misc:465 fj.sci.lang:792