From: chrisb@seachg.uucp (Chris Blask)
Subject: Re: The whole topic
Reply-To: chrisb@seachg.UUCP (Chris Blask)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 22:09:27 GMT

Hi, folks!

First time in this ng, so 'scuse me if i repeat thoroughly trammeled
ground.

I've just been looking through some posts, here, and have a few comments.
First: (Agnostic) vs (Atheist).  I am an agnostic (I question the existence
of 'ag's), not an atheist.  Atheism is a religion in itself, claiming, like
all the rest, that you _know_ the answer to the Big Question; ie, no, there
is no God.  I would die of shock if any of the major religions turned out
to be true, but then anything is possible.

Second: <sorry 'bout that> Well, I got interrupted and forgot my killer
second point.  Additional observation, then;
	When I was taking philosophy in college, my professor (Phd and
	still a creationist; ya' gotta wonder) showed me what he takes to
	be the ultimate proof of God's existence, and something which
	apparently is accepted by quite a few people.  It wasn't DesCartes,
	but anyway it went like this: "God is, by definition, all powerful,
	all good, and all perfect.  If, by chance, God did not exist, he
	would not be perfect, and would therefore not be God.  The REAL God
	_must_ exist (are you following along here?) to be perfect,
	therefore God exists, because if he didn't, he wouldn't be
	perfect..."  kinda makes you woozie, eh?

Third (was "Second"):  Now I remember!  One of my work partners in South
Carolina was a thoroughly born again Pentecostal, 10% tithing, church twice
a day...  We got along great, 'cause I love the topic, and he had to be
nice (I was too, no sense being a jerk).  Two incidents will always stay
with me:  
	1} A debate that comprised me insisting that if "Praise God",
something good happened, and "Curse the Devil" (he believed in demon
possesion) something bad happened, then there could be no free will (and I
still feel that way).  
	2} Tracts lying everywhere, but one in particular
grabbed my attention.  Quoted as close to verbatim as I can manage; "Do not
believe your eyes if they tell you something that disagrees with the
church, do not believe your ears...  Your senses will deceive you, but the
church will always tell the truth."  With logic like this, there is no
point in being alive.  You cannot see, you cannot hear, you cannot do good
(that's God) you cannot do bad (that's a demon); seems kinda pointless to
waste 70kg of good flesh, eh?

(One of) the problems with Christianity (we'll get the rest later), is this
blind faith bit.  What is the point of creating humans if they must blindly
follow other humans.  "Faith" is an overused word often meaning: "To accept
as real a circular logic argument."  If there was only one such argument,
it would carry a lot more weight - "Wow!  In the whole universe there is
this one paradox..."  The fact that there are scads of the bloody things
laying around, and that the main factor determining which one an individual
will believe is the geography of his/her birth, drains away any potential
reality.

Ad nauseum...

Dog bless ya' all!

-chris blask

I'm still amazed that God is Dog spelled backwards.

I personally think there is some greater something, but in Steven Hawking's
words; "I don't believe in the kind of God you can have a personal
conversation with."




Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25762 talk.religion.misc:25934