HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:57:37 EST
From: <PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov
Subject: Ouch!

Re: Objection to mindless pro-government hogwash in A.F.M-J.

Dear Jittlovians,

I have replied privately to Mr./Ms.  Gharlane.  If others of you were
offended by my sharing my enthusiasm for the new administration here, I am
sorry for posting my comments here.  I did so for two reasons--the previous
post, and the strong environmental themes of TWOSAT.  After all, it's my
environmental activism (and not a psychosexual fixation) that made me so
happy.

Paula

Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov
Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov
Subject: his shorts!
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 09:52:29

 > From: edm@gocart.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)

 > Well, I've gone and done it this time.  I lost the address of that
 > chap who is copying mike's shorts onto video.  I'd like to mail
 > a tape to you so if you read this, please email me.

Check out the FAQ I just posted... It will have everything.

L8r G8r
 Keith

 * Origin: Of all of natures vegetables, only the Beet goes on... (1:280/338)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu (Matt Healy)
Subject: Re: SF or Fantasy?
Followup-To: alt.fan.pern
Organization: Yale U. - Genetics
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:38:41 GMT

In article <alix.727564404@vincent2.iastate.edu>, alix@iastate.edu (L.A.
Melloy) wrote:
>[text cut] 
> Are the Dragonrider books considered sci-fi, or fantasy?
>[text cut]

1. I consider all of Ms M's works to be good fiction, mostly
   of what Harlan Ellison calls the "speculative" variety.
   Generally they lean towards fantasy in my view (I read
   perhaps 40% fantasy; 60% SF).

2. Minor flame:  Many of those who consider themselves
   science-fiction fans are offended by the abbreviation
   {sci-fi} because it has been applied by the mainstream
   media to certain Hollywood productions that most fans
   of written speculative fiction disdain.  If you don't
   want to invite flames, please use the abbreviation SF.

3. While I have read most of the dragon books with pleasure,
   I and my wife *really* like the Killashandra series!

   Someday I'd like to visit Ballybaran! (Of course I'll
   have a little trouble leaving--code 4 you know.  I'd
   never be a crystal singer myself, because I wear hearing
   aids, and have never had perfect pitch...)

Matt Healy
"I pretend to be a network administrator;
 the lab net pretends to work"

matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: eporter@andy.bgsu.edu (Ellen M. Porter)
Subject: Re: Hearing dragons
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:05:15 GMT

venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo) writes:
>  I get tired of all the B*llsh*t about women being more empathic, dealing
>  better with people etc. Frankly its a fallacy, they have a predisposition
>  but that comes from how they were raised, not from their sex.
> 
Here's a real mild one to get you warmed up, Th'ron. :)
You just contradicted yourself. It's a fallacy, but they have a 
predisposition? Frankly, it doesn't matter whether the women in the 
books were raised to be more empathic or were born that way, the end
result is the same. (Note I am speaking only to the books. I'm not 
about to dive into a real world discussion on this.)
And the 'bad things' that come with the 'good things' of being a woman?
Take a good look at Avril Bitra, Kylara...stereotypes of the 'bad things'
if I ever saw them. Manipulative, possessive, jealous, envious, etc.
Even Brekke is a nice mix -- empathic without the gumption to stick up
for herself.

Ellen -- Kiandra, rider of Brown Arcoth@SouCon 
eporter@andy.bgsu.edu
From: rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick "Real Man" Miller ;-)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: MU* keeness
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:44:38 GMT
Organization: Just me.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

bob@eagle.inmos.co.uk (Bob Green) writes:
[...]
>
>Could the server do it ? Every time a new player is created, give them a
>1 in 10 million chance (or thereabouts) of being able to hear all dragons?

That's so close to never, that they might as well not bother.  In fact,
such a predetermined attribute would probably wreak havoc upon the data-
base as hundreds of thousands of female characters are automatically
created and discarded by those questing for keenness.  I call this the
"rogue-o-matic effect"... get my drift?  Wizards' nightmare, folks.

>I suppose it should oly do this for people registering themselves as
>female, since earlier threads decided that it was sex-linked (I think).

"Threads" decided?  I thought they were non-sentient... now I have proof.

>It'd also have the side effect (maybe) of altering the male/female ratio
>of players in a way I'd approve of ;-)

Oh, no it wouldn't.  It might affect the male/female ratio of *characters*,
but it probably would have the *reverse* effect upon the male/female ratio
of RL "players".  I figure it this way...

1.) Suddenly, lots of female players appear (hoping to be keen),
     many of which are played by RL males.  <Yech!>

2.) Word gets out on the net that Pern is crammed with gorgeous girls.
     (My guess is that a RL male will probably @describe a female
      character to be exactly what attracts him, and other males.
      So I'd suppose that a male-played female character would be
      more attractive to other male players than a 'legitimate'
      female-played female character.)

3.) More RL male players come to see this MUSH, hoping for TinySex.

4.) Some of them (new RL males) would like to hear dragons too, so they
     start up some female characters of their own...  GOTO Step #1.

     ...and VOILA!  We've got a new theme for PernMUSH:

	Pern:  Planet of the Transexual Amazon Wannabies.

				<BLECH!!>

Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>   Ricxjo Muelisto
Occupation:  Husband, Father, WEPCo. WAN Mgr., Discus Sys0p, and  Linux fan
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
Subject: Re: SF or Fantasy? 
Distribution: world
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:06:20 +0000

In article <1993Jan22.121842.1@master.uchicago.edu> david@master.uchicago.edu writes:

>"Offended" ?!?!?  I have read sci-fi all of my life, and have never been
>offended by the usage of the word sci-fi.  Who cares ? SF, sci-fi, its
>all the same.  As far as Hollywood productions go, they are certainly
>on the same level of writing/action/scientific accuracy as the majority
>of SF/sci-fi out there.  Take this to mean that most Hollywood stuff is
>good or that most sci-fi is written at a fifth grade reading level with
>the scientific accuracy of the late news, however you wish.  I think
>it is a bit much to get "offended" and warn someone they are in dire
>peril of inviting flames because they use the term sci-fi.

*You* aren't offended, *I* am not offended, but what was stated was that
*some* people *are* offended by the term.  I have personally been flamed
by one of them (incorrectly - I was quoting another message that used te
term), so the warning (as a warning of possibilities, not a flame in
itself) was, I think, correct.

Incidentally, I generally use the term SF to mean the whole field
('Speculative Fiction', which includes fantasy).

As far as Pern goes, I would say that it's not fantasy in the general
sense, as that virtually always has aspects of 'supernatural' and/or is
set in a conciously medieval-style world.  Neither are they very much
Science Fiction, as the science is, at best, dubious, and in the main
part of most of the stories is absent totally.

What the books *are*, almost totally, are romances, using elements of
fantasy and science fiction.  The same goes for Anne's other books, with
greater or lesser amounts of science.  IMO there's nothing wrong with
that...

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: damiene@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Eccles)
Subject: Re: Zair, not Berd.. 
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:33:27 GMT

kewasiel@unix.amherst.edu (They call me Ren) writes:

>Chris Croughton (chris@keris.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: 
>: I'm not disputing that spoilers are needed for some people who haven't
>: had the chance to read the book yet.  My only query is *how long* should
>: they be required?  Until the book has been out in softcover for a
>: year in every country?  For instance, have places like China and Russia
>: actually had any of the books?

>why don't we just agree to be polite?  what i mean is that if i were talking
>about pern to somebody i knew hadn't read atwop, i wouldn't mention what
>happens there.  we know there are several regular readers who haven't yet
>read the stuff, because it is not yet available.  so once they've said that
>it's out there, that it's been read, we can talk about it without spoilers.
>it's not like it's an unknown thing - the people for whom we are writing the
>"spoiler" messages can *tell* us when they're no longer needed.  we don't need
>to worry about people who don't read this newsgroup regularly, as far as i 
>can see.

What about people who are complaining, have the book in their area, but
haven't been bothered to get it?
I know at least one instance of this within the last three weeks

Eccles
	Great Cthulhu will save you - He may be hungry later.
From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:29:38 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Well Catie, I would assume if she wrote back, and asked you to write back,
But did not include her return address, she probably wants you to write
back through her publisher.

The reason for this (I would suppose) Is that with as much correspondance as she
Surely receives, its better for it to go through her publisher rather than just
handing out her home address. Even though thats easy enough to find out, its
still a precaution many noted personages make.

I doubt you are an axe wielding maniac with a mission from god, But with the
number of those out there, Anne just screens her mail through her offices.

I would think though, that should you continue to correspond, some day she may
give you her home address.

Just keep the letters interesting, and best of luck to you.

Th'ron, rider of Wulfrith, DragonsFire Muse <Needs a new Site>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Subject: Re: MU* keeness
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:02:13 GMT

|> In article <snip> jmorrill@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John M Morrill) writes:
|> >In article <snip> khearn@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn) writes:
|> > [ asks if it's been cleared with the wizards and Weyrleaders, and 
|>      wonders if 'the dragons' have been asked. ]
|> >>I think you'd better get permission OOC, before you start trying to run a
|> >>  TP with someone claiming to hear dragons......(Rest deleted)
|> 
|> >I would assume that whomever is going to run this Tinyplot has or is working
|> >on getting permission for the Weyr involded. As far as getting permission from
|> >the other Weyrleaders/Weyrwomen and Wizards, well....one of the things I
|> >dislike most about PERN Mush and South Conn is the bureacracy. By the time
|> >you get permission from everyone you have to get permission from to do
|> >anything, you are ready to say the hell with it. Of course, there is no
|> >guarantee that you will get the permission either.

	A loose transcript of a conversation that occurred just a few days
ago, between myself (Mertonn, Craft Council Chair and Craft wiz on SouCon) 
and Miner Craftsecond Jon:

Jon pages: I was wondering if intercraft disputes and rivalries are okay as
a tinyplot.
You paged Jon with: What sort of dispute?
Jon pages: Well, there's some difference of opinion over whether the Smiths
or the Miners are responsible for jewelry, and I'd like to do something with
this with Myrddin. [Myrddin is Smith Craftsecond]
You paged Jon with: Well, talk to him about it OOC first, but then, yeah, if
he's agreeable go for it.  Sounds like fun.

	Total elapsed time:  55 seconds.

	I love being a bureaucratic abusive fascist, Xavier, can't you tell?

	Mertonn, Mastertanner@SouConMUSH (soucon.cygnus.com 4201)
	Jim Kiley
	jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Felines
From: y00025@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Kristy Olson)
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:05:01 -0600
Reply-To: y00025@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <1jietfINNrvs@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,<1993Jan22.042402.6840@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1993Jan22.042402.6840@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, ladyk@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Catarina Ang) writes:
>In <1jietfINNrvs@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> Erik Schwiebert <evs1@cornell.edu> writes:
>
>>In article <1993Jan18.015613.13215@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> Catarina Ang,
>>ladyk@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>>>	That's from 'People of Pern'. I forget the publisher name. But I
>>>can dredge it up if someone wants it.
>
>>PLEASE DO!!!  I havent heard of 'People of Pern' before -- mind if i ask
>>when/where it came out?
>
>	Gleep! Oops, wrong newsgroup.  Um, well, I don't have it here
>right now. Wait til Monday.... It's a big, fairly skinny hardback, with
>a cover that doesn't look American, pictures by Robin Wood, who has
>apparently drawn them for conventions before. It didn't come outin
>Australia very long ago I should think.
>
>-----
>	Lady K
> A ripple of laughter drifts to your ears ... and is cut off abruptly as
>the door to the Ivory Tower slams shut.
>  ladyk@yoyo.cc.monash.au.edu
>-----


I have it here in my sweaty little palms....

Title:  The People of Pern
Author:  Robin Wood
Text and Intro:  Anne M.
Publisher:  The Downing Company Publishers
Distributor:  Schiffer Publisher Ltd.
Copywright:  1988
ISBN:  0-89865-751-2  (paperback)
     ----- also available in hardcover, or at least it was when I bought mine
about 4 years ago...

Hope this helps ya out.......

---------------Kristy   8-)

p.s.  I just found this place, and I'm glad I did!  I was beginning to think
that it was abnormal to be so into one author's work!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Vulnerability
From: ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:55:44 -0700

In article <1jr8rkINNbhg@uwm.edu>, rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) writes:
> wolfe@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>>        To be quite honest, in general, despite apperances, Males are
>>        far more emotional then famales, which is why they build elaborate
>>        defences, and can at time seem insensitive.  But perhaps this is
>>        a discussion for another time and place. :)
>>
> 
> I had the exact same thought a couple days ago, while driving...
> 
> I thought, "If women are so emotionaly sensitive, why don't most of them
> 		hide behind masks of invulnerability like most men do?"
> 
> 	If you ask me, women are the Storm Troopers of emotional warfare.
> 
> (Note that I can say this objectively as I haven't been dumped on, lately.)
> 
> Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>   Ricxjo Muelisto
> Occupation:  Husband, Father, WEPCo. WAN Mgr., Discus Sys0p, and  Linux fan

On the other hand it may well be that men aren't acting, they don't pre-
tend not to care, they *really* don't care! At least as much as women
do anyway. Or, perhaps, it's just that men & women tend (notice the use
of this word) to care/not care differently about different things?


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: damiene@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Eccles)
Subject: Re: SF or Fantasy?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:44:09 GMT

matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu (Matt Healy) writes:

>In article <alix.727564404@vincent2.iastate.edu>, alix@iastate.edu (L.A.
>Melloy) wrote:
>>[text cut] 
>> Are the Dragonrider books considered sci-fi, or fantasy?
>>[text cut]


>3. While I have read most of the dragon books with pleasure,
>   I and my wife *really* like the Killashandra series!

>   Someday I'd like to visit Ballybaran! (Of course I'll
>   have a little trouble leaving--code 4 you know.  I'd
>   never be a crystal singer myself, because I wear hearing
>   aids, and have never had perfect pitch...)

um.... I agree..... until Crystal Line.
Tip for upandcoming writers - don't have your main character
having no memory..... book becomes silly v. quickly.

Eccles

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern,rec.arts.sf.written
From: pyotr@halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe)
Subject: Re: Pern Audiobooks
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:33:10 GMT

cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:


>I went to the local library today and checked out some Pern audio
>books.  They are DRAGONSONG, DRAGONSINGER, and DRAGONDRUMS.  They
>claim to be unabridged, and I can believe it--they total 22.25
>hours, overall.  I have yet to listen to them, so I don't know
>how good they are.  They are narrated by someone named "Sally
>Darling."

>I can't say much for the covers.  The cover of Dragonsong shows
>fire lizards as green, flying tyrannosaurus rexes (with HORNS, no
>less!), and the cover of Dragondrums shows Piemer clutching an egg
>that is almost as big as he is!
so skip the cover art - how are the recordings?

Is this a simple 'unabridged' and no frills
read the book from cover to cover (my preference)
or do they doll it up with sound effects (barkola)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

chus
pyotr

-- 
Pyotr aka Peter D. Hampe : eka pyotr@halcyon.com
Nothing says loving like a bun in the oven.
EOF
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern,rec.arts.sf.written
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Pern Audiobooks
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 02:55:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.223310.7837@nwnexus.WA.COM> pyotr@halcyon.com (Pete
 D. Hampe) writes:
>cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>
>
>>I went to the local library today and checked out some Pern audio
>>books.  They are DRAGONSONG, DRAGONSINGER, and DRAGONDRUMS.  They
>>claim to be unabridged, and I can believe it--they total 22.25
>>hours, overall.  I have yet to listen to them, so I don't know
>>how good they are.  They are narrated by someone named "Sally
>>Darling."
>
>>I can't say much for the covers.  The cover of Dragonsong shows
>>fire lizards as green, flying tyrannosaurus rexes (with HORNS, no
>>less!), and the cover of Dragondrums shows Piemer clutching an egg
>>that is almost as big as he is!
>so skip the cover art - how are the recordings?
>
>Is this a simple 'unabridged' and no frills
>read the book from cover to cover (my preference)
>or do they doll it up with sound effects (barkola)?
>
>Inquiring minds want to know!
>
>chus
>pyotr
>
>-- 
>Pyotr aka Peter D. Hampe : eka pyotr@halcyon.com
>Nothing says loving like a bun in the oven.
>EOF

No sound effects, no music, no NOTHING.  Just the [boring] narrator
reading from the book.  I found it slightly disappointing...

--
Chris Meadows  | Robotech/RIFTS/Palladium fanfic author/editor                  
CHM173S@SMSVMA | They Might Be Giants about Star Trek aliens:                   
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | "Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads                  
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | on their real heads!"                                  
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: SF or Fantasy?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Pern
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:45:06 GMT


Personally, I feel that Pern is SF, but in a fantasy setting.
After all, it's basically just about human beings, their long-
lost science, and their interactions with alien beings (dragons,
Thread).  Remember, the dragons are extraterrestrial creatures,
not fantasy creatures.

You could make an equal case for Pern being a series of romance 
stories, btw.  There is a lot of romance in there...

--
Chris Meadows  | Robotech/RIFTS/Palladium fanfic author/editor                  
CHM173S@SMSVMA | They Might Be Giants about Star Trek aliens:                   
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | "Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads                  
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | on their real heads!"
From: wolfe@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Hearing dragons.
Date: 28 Jan 93 06:23:15 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <1993Jan28.093731.588@otago.ac.nz>, alastair@farli.otago.ac.nz (Alastair Thomson), University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand writes:
> In article <1993Jan19.032123.4489@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>  writes:
>> 
>>   That is quite true, but that's because Ramoth an The M dragon I can't
>>   spell, chose to speak to him.  There are several examples of this,  
> whereas
>>   Those who heard them all the time regardless of whether or not they
>>   wished to be heard was rare.  I only remember 3 cases, Lessa, Brekke,  
> and
>>   Aramina...
> 
> Actually Araminia is the only one who heard them all the time, that was  
> why she and Jayge left for the Southern Continent. She had no control over  
> whether she could hear the - it drove her up the wall!
> 
> Lessa, Brekke and several other whose names I can't remember could *speak*  
> and *listen* to any dragon, but only when they wanted to.
> 
>

  Hmmm.  It had never occured to me that it would be different, but I suppose
  you're right.  Otherwise Both Brekke and Lessa would have been quite batty.
  On the Odd PernMU*, dragonchatter can drive one insane.. :)

 
 ______________________
| Nicholas E LaFlamme  |
|  Programmer, poet    |  Why, they come for tea, and for supper, and
|  Madman, and Vagrant.|    for you, burglar Baggins.
|______________________|               -Gandalf the Grey
 
Wolfe@wvnvaxa.wvnet.edu
G'ran@DragonsFire Mandren@KnownSpace
From: roise@sumax.seattleu.edu (Linda Roise)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: HELP! Trying to find new PernMUSH!
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:22:12 GMT
Organization: Seattle University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu
In-reply-to: support@fy.chalmers.se's message of 26 Jan 93 22:04:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.220452.2339@fy.chalmers.se> support@fy.chalmers.se (Merriwyn) writes:

> I got access to the old PernMUSH, freya.arc.nasa.gov 4201,
> but I can't get access to the new one.
> I've been told the telnet code is:
>
> pern.ps.cs.cmu.edu 4201 or 128.2.250.30 4201.
>
> Is the code right? Does anybody here know what I did wrong?

I have the following in my mud.el file:

   ("Pernmush"         TinyMUSH "pern.pc.cs.cmu.edu"           4201)
                                      ^^

Try pc instead of ps in your code and see whether it makes a
difference.
--
---------------------  InterNet: roise@sumax.seattleu.edu or @u.washington.edu
 Linda Roise, Seattle  America Online & Delphi: ___________________ LINDAROISE
---------------------  Prodigy: JXCX33A   FREENET: aj023@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern