From: starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 27 Aug 92 06:37:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: galaxy.21987
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: University of California, Riverside

Problem with the mailer.  Sorry if this is posted twice.
starbuck

kt- Katie - kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
ap- Anthony Peterson) acp@cray.com writes:
ms- Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu - writes:
                                                                        
ms- I am not surprised that there are women who hate men.  What
ms- surprises me is *which* women hate men.  No, it isn't the
ms- radical feminists or the lesbian separatists who make sweeping
ms- and general anti-male statements, it's the heterosexual housewives
ms- and the rather ordinary, run-of-the mill women who engage in
ms- outrageous male-bashing.  And it's the men who behave in the
ms- most disgustingly sexist manner who are confused and angered by
ms- it.  Ironic, huh?                                                     

ap-	Anyone who can get their head that far up their ass
ap-	should be able to make a fortune in the circus.
ap-	What the hell are you wasting your time at Cornell for?

kt- Why don't you tell us exactly what about Ms. Shore's *correct* observations
kt- irked you so rather than fling this ad hominem comment at her?  
kt- If she's wrong,
kt- tell us *HOW* and *WHY* instead of writing this uncalled-for garbage.

Correct?  You may think that most women hate or dislike men.  You are
wrong, very very wrong.

Consider the quote from Jacsun Shah, a reporter from the Houston Chronicle
one more time.

>->   "Yes, I am a man hater, yes, I am a feminist. and why not?
>->    Women are dying . They die every day, at the hands of men.
>->    Men ... beat them, rape them, dismember them. Hell yes, I
>->    hate men ... To all of you women out there, I say _hate_.
>->    You have every right to ... I knew the kindest thing I could
>->    do for the women of this world is to hate men with full force."

Just a little refresh so we all know where this subject started. 
It was posted without comment because of the it's imfamatory nature.

Pesonally I think it is far more inflamatory than the famous "all men are
rapists and and that's all they are" quote.  Now, I disagree strongly with
Ms. Shore's original post for a number of reasons. 

She tries to dodge the fact that bashing men and things masculine is
quite typical of feminists.  To imply in her article that radical
feminists or the lesbian separatists do not make sweeping and general
anti-masculine statements is untrue.  The do it all the time.  In the
press, on TV, in books, anywhere they can.   An interesting future
topic might be on how lesbian feminists view men and the impact of
that bias on feminist thought and theory.  Does it distort reality?  

Secondly Ms. Shore rather than comment on Ms. Shah's quote changes
direction.  She would much rather deflect the conversation from feminist
extremes to "hetrosexual housewives" and "ordinary, run of the mill
women" who we should be suprised to find are the one's who engage "in
the most outragous male bashing."

Of course if we should decide to disagree then we must be one of the
"men who behave in the most disgustingly sexist manner who are confused 
and angered by it"

I find the use of "hetorsexual housewives" and "ordinary run of the mill
women" to be classest and sexest in the least and very anti-women.  In
the context used they imply contempt.  

I repeat my comments on Ms. Shah and her quote.

The words that come to mind are terrorist and fanatic.  I think they fit
Ms. Shah's character very well indeed. And like a terroist she would like
to vilify, fragment, and distroy for no reason but an unhealthy emotion.
Her statements are the product of a sever personallity disorder.  They
are without merit.

Her remarks are typical of hate groups.  If hate speech were an sport
Ms. Shah would get the gold.  

To take a piece of garbage ( the person as well as her remarks ) and lionize
her is to belittle both women and men. 

We should save our praise for women of character, women who have made
something of themselves and women who are positive examples of fully
developed human beings.  There are millions of women who would fit
that description like the the athelete that posted about being the
first female to play collegiate ice hockey.  Or my sister-in-law who owns
her on software and systems consulting company, or my wife who is an RN
in a Neo-natal intensive care unit keeping babies alive, or the migrant
farmworker's daughter who for some reason was able to change high schools
over and over and still get a full boat to Stanford, or the single mother
who does what she has to do in order to raise and support her children, or
any of a million other stories.

starbuck

Life is much deeper than feminist thought.