HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CHOICE: DEBATE BASED ON COMPETING PHILOSOPHIES
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:32:57 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

>Well, private schools average about half the cost of public schools in
>this country because over half the private schools are parochial in
>nature and hence have a cost advantage (due to tax exemptions on
>church property, the ability to have 'religious' payment to teachers
>as part of their compensation (have a priest teach the math class,
>since he costs a lot less than a 'private enterprise' teacher), etc.).

--
This isn't completely true.  First of all, public schools are exempt from
property taxes too.  In fact the GET the tax money, not pay it. Property
tax exemption should be a matter that is decided by the purpose and 
profit making status of the school. Let all non-profit schools, including
the public schools, be tax exempt. It's not really relevant to the argument.

When we were looking for a private school for our daughter this year,
we looked at several schools.  There were some non-denominational
schools that were in the 4,000-6,000 range, but several good ones
were around the same (~$3,000) as the church schools.  One, an inter-
national French academy with a teacher:pupil ratio of about 1:6 was 
about $3,200.

There is no doubt that private school tuition would rise with the 
availability of voucher money.  But public school cost would decrease 
as the schools focused less on a top heavy bureacracy and more directly 
on the parents and local community.  One way to keep things in check 
would be partial vouchers. Require, say, that the parents pay some 
percentage of the tuition based on income. This would keep total 
costs down and allow for choice as well.  I'm a long time advocate 
of private schools and choice, and I have 3 kids.  But I would find
this solution acceptable.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuser.com)
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Gary Standridge of Fort Worth TX school district
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:13:23 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


*6   FROM SHOP CLASS TO TECH-PREP:  TRAVELING UNCHARTED WATERS
     Gary Standridge, Fort Worth, Texas, school district's
director of research and development, recently explained the
problem with America's traditional voc-ed programs for non-
college bound H.S. students.  "The old ship has sunk," according
to Standridge.  And in its place are "tech prep" programs that
blend "the traditionally segregated concepts of vocational
education and college prep." (Baker, L.A. TIMES)
     The TIMES reports that a national movement to build "a
formal bridge between school and the workplace" is burgeoning
across the country.  Over half of American H.S. graduates forgo
college and "plunge directly into a job market that differs
radically from the one their parents faced," writes the paper.
     Low-skilled factory jobs with good wages are fading
memories.  And business leaders are "alarmed by the low skill
levels of today's job applicants and increasingly conscious of
the trend to give front-line workers more decision-making
authority," writes the paper.
     According to the TIMES, champions of the school-to-work
movement extol the programs as "long-term solution[s] to
increasing classroom comprehension among the great mass of
students who do not attend college, lowering the dropout rate and
developing a smarter, more independent work force."
     The paper highlights several school-to-work programs:  The
Fort Worth Independent School District has revived "applied
learning."  An elementary school, for example, opened this fall
requires real-world participation, such as writing a letter of
application to work on the student newspaper.
     A system of small "career academies" is operated by the
Pasadena, Calif., Unified School District.  Over 100 H.S.
students in Pa. "train in industry while pursuing their academic
studies."  And legislation passed in Ore. last year will "force
most students to choose between a course of study emphasizing
either a technical career or college-preparatory classes as they
enter the 11th grade."  Students also must earn a "certificate of
mastery" in basic subjects by the 10th grade.
     But the TIMES reports that the programs are not without
opposition.  One major roadblock to school-to-work transition
programs is a fear that students will be "segregated into
different quality tracks," according to the newspaper (11/10).


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
From: system@korova.freeside.com (razorback)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: thanks
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:56:23 CST
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

to all that responded. this should get me an "A", after all, i did a poll 
of over 100 people.
heres the results:

of a primarily white, suburbanite (excepting those over usenet, i really 
dont know) 

women over 18 (out of 21 polled)
        clinton - 6
        bush - 8
        perot - 7
        cuthulu - 1

women under 18 (out of 25 polled)
        clinton - 6
        bush - 8
        perot - 7
        marrou - 4
        rita coke - 7

men over 18 (out of 29)
        clinton - 10
        bush - 9
        perot - 4
        marrou - 2
        cuthulu - 1
        itself - 1
        rita coke - 5
        J.R. "Bob" Dobbs - 1
        zappa - 1

men under 18 (out of 25)
        clinton - 4
        bush - 9
        perot - 12
        marrou - 1
        zappa - 1

do you support the north american freetrade agreement as it stands now?
(out of 29)

       Y        N
      16       13

do you think public political figures have a right to privacy?
(out of 42)

        Y       N
        25      17

do you think congress needs term limits?
(out of 26)

        Y       N
        20      6

do you think congress needs heroin and/or disco?
        heroin          disco
      N 17:3  Y        N 6:6 Y

the margin of error is whatever i miscounted and/or wrote down wrong. and 
i wish i had a larger body of people to pester. or a more diverse one. 
but i got it done, so...
        thanks.

squid

--
                          the korova milkbar
             land of the CHEEZ          home of the WHOPPER
                             713-492-2783
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Fix this damn country
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:25:00 GMT

In article <21812@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> Bush flinched, and we all lost.  He should have crammed a line item veto
> and balanced budget amendment down Congress' throat at the same ...
 
If Bush signed the budget (which he did) he's just as responsible as the
people who originated it.  Hell, he at least knew better.  The only thin
worse than breaking a solid promise is coming back later and claiming it
wasn't your fault.  He did admit at one point he had made a mistake, but
after that he acted like he fought the increase tooth and nail.
 
The fact is that Bush has very few strong beliefs, other than staying in
office.  He had no real anti-tax or anti-government bias, except when it
sounded good on the campaign trail.  
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:40:14 GMT

In <Bx814r.H5I@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.195654.5308@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>In <1992Nov02.233846.8855@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Nov02.204735.5570@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>>>>You can't ignore the fact that when the US government forces Japanese
>>>>companies to raise their prices (or shuts them out completely) the US
>>>>companies also raise their prices, giving the US companies more money at
>>>>the expense of the consumer.  
>>
>>>	Texas Instruments verified this claim just this week.
>>
>>Name of spokesman and his organization, please?

>	Bill Mullally, Bear/Stearns, reading from analyst reporting.
>T.I., according to same, raised prices accordingly.

Ah, I see.  So *TI* verified nothing at all.  See below.

>>
>>[Of course, if this is simply taking notice of the fact that when
>>people competing unfairly are blocked from doing so that others in the
>>market will readjust their prices to go back to making a normal
>>profit, then you've simply committed a dumbness in this statement.  I
>>don't do chips, Joe.  I build the stuff that kills people.]

>	Fred, very well. Do you have a complaint with something I said?
>I see- you do. It appears justified. I didn't mean to cooberate (how
>the hell do you spell that?) the "more money at the expense" part. I
>meant "They raised prices." Sorry. 

Your original statement made it look like you were claiming that
someone from TI had said something like, "Oh yes, we raised our prices
strictly because we could get the government to intervene for us."  I
thought that was just a bit out of line.  Any price rise you see is a
readjustment back to REAL market levels for price (sans 'dumping' and
'subsidized competition' by foreign companies).

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 18:38:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.223933.12755@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>
>After that Convention and the McCartheyite campaign George Bush ran, I
>wouldn't vote for him in a 1-man race.


That's not saying much; ovr 60% of the voters didn't vote for him
in the last n-man race.  But tell me, fred, if it came down to a
choice between George Bush and a Libertarian, in a two-man race,
who would you vote for?



thomas rush				thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com
compaq computer corporation		their employee,
deep in the hearth of texas		not their opinions.

Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: TEXAS SCHOOL FINANCE: GRAPPLING WITH FAIR SHARE PLAN
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 01:13:21 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: So, I'm curious.  For people who oppose such a plan, just how do they
: propose to give the same educational opportunities to the student in a
: poor district as are available to one in a wealthy district?  Note
: that moving to the wealthy district is generally not an available
: option. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you pay for schools
by taxing *property*, that areas with high property values are going to 
collect more money.  What did they expect?  Instead of coming up with clever
schemes to shift money around, I think the whole process needs to be revisited
based on what the goals are.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 01:03:30 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: You assert that that there is no such correlation and that no pass / no
: play was imposed arbitrarily because there was no relationship to not
: letting them play sports and having them do better in school.  If you
: have any supporting statistics, please present them.

I think it's appropriate to assume that things are not correlated until a 
correlation can be shown.

: You see, that bit cuts both ways.  You have asserted (apparently) that
: the proportion of high school graduates among the jail populations is
: the same as that among the general populace.  

No I didn't.  I asked you to support the assertion that YOU made.  I think
you really do need to take a logic course.

: Do I REALLY need to dig
: up a source for that?  Hell, check practically ANY report on crime.

In other words, you don't have one.  That's what I thought.

: How things seem to you are not my responsibility, since I do not use
: the terms that way.

So tell me how you use them so that I can answer your question.

: There is also a Socialist Party; is that what you
: are referring to when you use the world 'socialist'?

I call you a socialist for two major reasons.  You advocate the redistribution
of wealth, and you advocate governmental control of business.  You also 
espouse the rights of "society" as being more important than the rights of the 
individual.

: Gee, John, you ALWAYS have an M.E. and an inquest in any case of death
: inflicted by the actions of another human being.

But why?  Talk about government waste.  How much do we pay this guy to say
"Yep, you shot him"?

:               Is it your position that we should simply tip the body
: into the closest dumpster?

Why not?  He obviously doesn't need it anymore.

: Gee, little details like reading and numbers are useful.  Basic
: accounting, so he can balance his checkbook (all those big numbers,
: you know).  English so he doesn't sound like a Neanderthal doing all
: those endorsements.  Study skills so that he can learn the playbook,
: which is somewhat more complicated than that of the typical high
: school team.  How many do you want?

None of these thing are NECESSARY to be an excellent football player.  Some
of them might make his life a little easier, but shouldn't that be HIS call
to make?

:                                             What do you propose these
: guys do when they're done with their half dozen or dozen years in the
: pros? 

What I propose is that it's up to them to decide what they do.  They're the
ones who have to live with their choices.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:37:27 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov9.193701.24760@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806) writes:

>exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>>mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>>Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!

>>>Once again, I'm curious.  Do you make over $200k?  If not, why are you
>>>so sure of what you claim is 'going to surely happen'?

>>Hey, Fred, isn'tthe $200k figure based on HOUSEHOLD income, not personal?
>>Not that *we* would qualify, my wife has her own nubile business.

>Clinton said this:

>If I'm elected, you will get screwed by the IRS if you make over :
>	200k if married filing jointly
>		or
>	150k if single filing 


>But the average 150k filer has 64k in AGI, i.e. he has $86,000 of
>deductions.

>In other words most people who make this much are running their own
>business or something and 150k is SALES, not PROFITS.

>Essentially anyway, that's the way I understand it.  The liberal press
>never pursued these numbers much and how they add up because it wasn't
>in the interest of their candidate for them to do so.

>But the Republicans said this over and over on shows like MacNeil/Lehrer
>without any disagreement for Democrats who were sitting right there also.

>So, if your Adjusted Gross Income on your 1991 tax form was over say
>60k, you'll probably get hammered.  Anyone lower than that is SUPPOSED
>to get a TAX CUT.  

All this makes perfect sense, of course, IF YOU BELIEVE THE REPUBLICAN
PROPAGANDA ABOUT THEIR OPPOSITION'S PROPOSALS.  Gee, taking that tack,
shouldn't we also accept as fact the propaganda from the other side?

Did you see any of the talking head shows this Sunday?  What you (and
the Republicans) claim they are saying is NOT what they are saying,
not what they have been saying, and since when did not wasting time
rebutting stupid accusations become proof of their truth?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:46:03 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <Bx7xE5.F0E@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>	I went to school in Kansas (public school, graduating class of
>2,000), and there was no evidence that silent prayer would cause a 
>problem. I also went to school in Connecticut, where I watched a student
>get pulled from study hall for praying. He did pray out loud, so this
>hardly counts. In N.Y., my senior year, the debate over silent prayer
>raged among students for a few weeks, after it was (either begun or
>announced) brought to light that students could not pray to themselves
>in the cafeteria. While I have no objection to silent prayer, the
>(to me) believable argument made by those opposed was that given that
>inch.....

	"Let Us Pray!", by Eugene H. Methvin, Reader's Digest,
		November 1992

	Do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling
	that it is unconstitional for a prayer to be offered at a high-
	school graduation?
		80% Disapprove
		18% Approve

	Do you generally favor or oppose prayer in public schools?
		75% Favor
		19% Oppose

	It's right for a school to put up a manger scene or menorah
	during the holiday season?
		76% Agree
		21% Disagree

	Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for a candidate
	for President or Congress who favored prayer in public schools?
		59% More likely
		16% Less likely

	From a telephone survey of 1054 Americans ages 18 and older taken
	for Reader's Digest by the Wirthlin Group July 8-10, 1992.  Margin
	of error is three percent.  Responses of "Don't know", "No opinion"
	or "No difference" are not noted. [ but if you add up the
	percentages you can figure them out yourself ... ]

	"In 1962, however, the [ Supreme ] Court decided that prayer in
	 classrooms is unconstitutional.  Since then, with the federal
	 judiciary as their guide, school authorities have told youngsters
	 they cannot sit together at their lunch hour and read the Bible,
	 say grace over their meals or discuss religion.  A handicapped
	 girl in Texas was ordered not to use her rosary on a school bus.
	 A Denver teacher was ordered to cease reading his Bible silently
	 during his class reading period and to remove the book from his
	 desk.

	 ...

	 "And at the North Clayton (Ga.) Junior High School, drama, math,
	  science and chess clubs assembled.  But the 60-member Youth for
	  Christ Club, which always met after school, was expelled from
	  campus after a lawsuite was filed through the American Civil
	  Liberties Union (ACLU). ..."
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:41:42 GMT

In <Bx8BoE.Bx@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.195419.5171@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> Not to anything like the same degree.  This is like saying that
>> because a child takes a cookie without asking, it's ok for the guy
>> next door to rob banks.
> 
>Clearly it varies widely from industry to industry.  It pretty much ranges
>from no protection to very heavy government protection.
> 
>> As opposed to trying to operate below costs against a subsidized
>> competitor.  Yes, there is a certain amount of stupid decisionmaking
>> in this process, as well, but that doesn't make the principle of
>> requiring foreign competitors to compete on an even footing wrong.
> 
>Well, there's "costs" and there are "costs".  It's amazing that Japanese
>companies are able to produce lower-cost products, even if the factories
>are in the US and use US workers.  More than often "below cost" means
>"below the costs of what the US companies estimates the costs are".

I'm curious.  Do you have examples of this other than the automobile
industry (which I am convinced is run by congenital idiots in this
country)? 

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Bush starts unpatriotic trade war.
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:26:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.142724.23893@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> 
> Quite right.  The one thing that is perhaps worse than a trade war is
> playing by the rules when the guy you are trading with isn't.  In
> other words, the current situation.
 
I don't know what "current situation" you are talking about.  This is
the pot calling the kettle black and neither side is "playing by the
rules".  The French happen to be in the wrong here, and the US called them
on it.  Other countries call the US on their subsidies and tariffs all the
time, but they don't make the news because they don't have the economic
power to force a (newsworthy) confrontation.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com