HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd)
Subject: Re: Hung Gar (was Re: Seeking Wing Chun)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:04:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.181253.22122@PA.dec.com>, stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes...
> 
>doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes...
>> 
>>	a suggestion....
>>	down where you are there is a far better style available to you, taught
>>by an *excellent* teacher, and is a far more effective style than wing chun.
> 
>Doug, could you please summarize some the technical issues between 
>Wing Chun and Hung Gar that lead you to your conclusion ?
> 
>Thanks for any assistance.
> 
>						kind regards,
> 
>						todd

My Wing Tsun instructor has over seven years of Hung Gar training, and he knows
the Iron Wire as well. He once described Hung Gar as a Buzzsaw, attack after
attack, never letting the opponent rest. Wing Tsun's defence against that is 
lin sil die dar, simultaneous block and punch. Break his rhythm on the first 
beat. Hung Gar is a structurally slower system than Wing Tsun, most likely
much more effective against multiple attackers. Its rhythm is on a one,one,one
(attack,attack,defend, etcetera). Wing Tsun is a structurally faster system, 
with a rhythm more like two/two/two sometimes even three (parry/punch, 
kick/punch/parry, etecetera) More things are usually happening at once with Wing
Tsun. It is very much like Mantis in that respect. 

	Hung Gar, on the other hand is a more diverse system, with many more 
techniques than Wing Tsun. It has very good techniques against multiple 
attackers, and the power you can generate is awesome to behold. As to effective-
ness, Both are true Kung Fu systems directly descended from the Shaolin temple.
Personally I think it depends on the practitioner.

Kuo Hau Chang  :)            7-star Praying Mantis            (:
Texas A&M      :)                Moi-Fah Mantis               (:
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:21:52 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1992Sep9.030235.2643@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>But the idea that anyone can kiai in such a way as to
>consistently knock down determined attackers (let alone kill
>them) strikes me as pretty far-fetched.

My hsing yi teacher's wife (who herself is an 8th year hsing yi student and
licensed acupuncturist) saw an aikido demonstration in which a kiai was used
to knock a flying bird out of the air.  It was called, appropriately, something
like "bird falls from sky".  Note:  it only worked once out of three tries,
but I find it interesting that it worked at all.

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Subject: Re: Back Pain 
Reply-To: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:35:50 GMT


It's possible that your back pain is related to your judo.  How good are
your break-falls/rolls?  Are you throwing your partner correctly?  Improper
technique could overstress parts of the body.

Personally I find that any soreness goes away on those nights that we spend
lots of time doing ju-jitsu in my karate class.
------------------------------------------------------
Rich Whalen

You don't know where these bits have been!
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 6 Sep 1992 00:49:31 CDT
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U55870@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and Shomen Attacks.

In article <1992Sep5.194925.8302@cs.rose-hulman.edu>,
acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU says:
>
>is there a "prefered" distance for empty hand aikido techniques such as
>shomen/yokomen/munetuski? i sometimes see people attacking from 10 feet
>away with these *huge* stylized attacks that are impossible *not* to
>evade. i would think a distance away such that uke need only take one
>large step forward to strike you, would be sufficient.
>
>(by "preferred distance" i mean something similar in concept to the
>rule of thumb for bokken techniques [1" distance between sword tips].)
>
>

  Our sensi tells us that we should keep 8-12 inches between fingertips
when in the basic stance.  We often have the oppisite problem of getting
too close, and he says we must "feel' correct distance, becuse in an
actual confrontation, we will need the other person to move towards us,
otherwise it will be difficult to apply technique.


dave

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Chi Cultivation
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:01:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.205220.1849@udel.edu> weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu writes:
>Now I'm starting to understand the concept of Chi
>a little better and feel it would be in my best interest to see if I could
>cultivate it more. I've been doing a few chi-kung exercises regularily, and
>I'd like some input as to what are some exercises you all do to try to 
>get 1) your chi energy increased  2) your chi flowing into parts of your
>body   

It isn't exactly chi gung, but you might try to feel your entire body,
all at the same time (not concentrating on your foot, then shifting
your attention to your arm, then to... but all parts similtaniously.)

                                                 Frank Crary
                                                 CU Boulder
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:50:06 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <1992Sep9.231043.6527@wam.umd.edu> kckbxr@next11pg2.wam.umd.edu (Robin Hood) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.222058.179@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu  
>I'd heard that Teenage Mutant Ninja III will be coming out this fall.   
>Anybody else hear something of the same?
>
>Bill

      All I know is that it was filmed this past spring
      here in Oregon.  Astoria, Oregon that is the film
      location used in "Goonies" and "Kindergerten Cop".

      A call went out to all the local area MA schools
      wanting talented asian raced martial artists.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:39:54 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <Bu9zoJ.Eo7@hsi.com> mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft) writes:
>was a brown belt as I was.  We were doing some grappling when he applied
>a choke to me while saying, "you're mine!"  Needless to say, this
>infuriated me since we weren't trying to kill each other.  My adrenaline
>kicked in (along with my ego) and I got out of the choke and put him into
>a hold.  If he had just applied the choke and I thought it was good, I 
>probably wouldn't have really gone nuts to escape, but once I felt that he
>was going to get some sort of feeling of superiority out of it, I couldn't
>submit.

This reminds me once I was practising with a big white guy.  He thinks
he is good and when we were practising throws, he was trying to show
off his skills.  Since he was too heavy, sometimes I failed to throw
him.  But as I was kind of angry with his atitude, I harden my legs,
get into a very good stance form and he failed every time.  Then that
big guy shut up.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:42:23 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 16136@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.203350.5825@bnrmtl.bnr.ca> carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon) writes:
>> So what do you people think? Is it better to fight silently, thereby
>>conserving energy, or to use kiais to perhaps disconcert your oppponent
>>and add more emphasis to a strike?
>
>My vote is for silence: There are better ways to disconcert an 
>opponent. I used to study from someone who _smiled_, in the most
>disturbing way, when sparing with someone. It really was as disconcerting
>as yelling would have been, giving the impression he was just 
>playing with you (which, considering our relative skills was 
>probably true, but he did this to everyone...)
>
>                                               Frank Crary
>                                               CU Boulder
>

There are some cool things you can do to intimidate an opponent.  One
guy I know could get this look on his face that made him look like
a homicidal maniac.

One thing I learned from my street fight days...look at the guy with
a steady gaze, slight smile on your lips, move your head, slowly, like
your saying "no", but just a little bit of motion.  It give the opponent 
the feeling like he is being CLOSELY examined.  This does have a
psych-out effect of many people.  I've even had people comment on
it.

I've never been big on opposite psych-outs...but some people swear by it.

	-Garth




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Hung Gar (was Re: Seeking Wing Chun)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  9 SEP 92 14:06:07    


doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes...
> 
>	a suggestion....
>	down where you are there is a far better style available to you, taught
>by an *excellent* teacher, and is a far more effective style than wing chun.

Doug, could you please summarize some the technical issues between 
Wing Chun and Hung Gar that lead you to your conclusion ?  My only exposure
to Hung Gar is from the book written a while back from Ohara Pubs; I think
it was Bucksam Kong's book.   I can't picture the areas where the comparative
difference in effectiveness you refer to comes in from what I remember of
King's brief discussion of the principles.  Maybe the book just wasn't 
detailed enough, or I missed something.  Can you help point out the difference
in emphasis for me ?  I have just enough exposure to Wing Chun that I might
recognize references to the major principles in that art, but I would need
more details on the Hung Gar principles.

Thanks for any assistance.

						kind regards,

						todd
From: jih@cato.aa.ox.com (John I. Hritz)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Knife-Fighting Movie: Exposure /w/ Peter Coyote and Amanda Pays
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:13:51 GMT
Organization: OTA Limited Partnership -- Ann Arbor, MI
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cato.aa.ox.com


I rented a movie called "Exposure" the other evening. It is filmed
in Brazil.  Unlike many revenge films, this one is strange in
it's artfulness.  All the characters are interesting and
well-developed.  The knife fighting lessons shown in
the movie seem well done.  The style is unknown to me, but
is similar to the style show in the movie "Dune".  I was
interested in knowing if anyone else had seen this movie
and had any comments about it or the fighting style.
The movie is based on a book by Rubem Fonseca called
"High Art".
-- 
John Hritz, jih@ox.com                     Photons have mass!!??
O.T.A. Limited Partnership                    I didn't even know
101 N. Main, Suite 410                            they were Catholic...
Ann Arbor, MI 48104 (313) 930-1888
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


Interest has been expressed for the Model Mugging classes,
this list was compiled in 1990 so I don't know how up to date 
it is,  but here it is.
                 Natalie

From kra@hpcndxyz.HP.COM Thu May 24 12:27:12 1990
Relay-Version: version Notes 2.8.4  1990/05/09; site hplsla.HP.COM
From: kra@hpcndxyz.HP.COM (~K. R. Albitz)
Date: Thu, 24 May 1990 19:27:12 GMT
Date-Received: Thu, 24 May 1990 23:49:03 GMT
Subject: Re: How Can Women Feel Safe?
Organization: HP Colorado Networks Division
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: kyokunshikai karate ???
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 05:04:57 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <SCHAN.92Sep3094458@birch.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil writes:

 >         Actually, I've met a Kyokushin-Kai sensei who went at it with a muzzled > and declawed bear (he was young and drunk at the time...the human, not the
 > bear). Apparently, his best side-kick only managed to get the bear upset, and
 > he got batted around the ring ruthlessly by the bear afterwards.

Hm.  On the video mentioned (I think it's "The World's Strongest Karate"
or something, right?), this guy goes toe to toe with a bear.  I think it
coud have been muzzled and so on, but he did waste it.  He was
kyokushinkaikan, but has since been expelled from the organisation.

 >    >I've never read an article claiming that Kyukushinkai is the toughest >  karate
 >    >style.
 > 
 >         I don't know about stating that it's "tougher" than other arts. It's
 >    definitely a very "hard" art.
 >    --------
 >         Well...I'd say that it's a lot more painful than other arts :-)

8-)  Yeah.  We train hard to be strong.  We don't all make it, but we
expect to be better than everyone else - but to also respect that which
is stronger.  We try and learn from others; on the lines of the current
boxing vs karate thread: in our dojo, we are trying to use our hands
like boxers, because they are better at hands than karateka, generally.
We do some Mouy Thai legwork.  Whatever is stronger.  We train hard, so
that when the knowledge is needed, it's easier.

Later!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Styles in Bloodsport?
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 02:45:55 GMT

In article <12278@cis.rand.org> Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson) writes:
>
>      That was monkey Kung Fu. The person you saw was none other than the
>great Paulie Zink. A monkey Kung Fu master.

I haven't seen Blood Sport in a long time, but I recall the monkey
stylist was non-Caucasian whereas Zink is a white guy.  Then again,
my aging memory could be playing tricks again.  Anyone else know
for sure (about the monkey stylist, not my memory)?
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: spooky kiaiissssss
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 13:21:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.121552.2449@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>Anyone ever spar Jimmy Rhee?  He had a hilarious, kihap, a high pitched
>whooop sound, he used to spend a lot of time adjusting the timing so
>that you would think the sound would just precede the blow, and then
>use it as a fake... technique not particularly recommended, I'm a
>dummy and I never fell for it.

I visited a Yung Jung Do (a local TKD breakaway group) training
session a while ago and when they kiai'ed it sounded like they were
making laser sounds from Star Wars.  I found it hard to take
them seriously... :-)

>Stephen Northcutt (snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil)     Networks Program Manager

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Moving during kicking
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:27:18 GMT
	<Bu2Jo5.L79@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 4 Sep 92 19:33:40 GMT


In article <Bu2Jo5.L79@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:

[snip]

   In a reverse jump kick, you jump up and kick with your back leg.  When
   you are retreating this means that instead of stepping back with
   your lead leg, you actually jump back and drive the other leg forward
   at the advancing opponent.  There's plenty of torque generated by the
   hips using this move, at least with a front kick.  And although I'm
   not good enough at it yet, I've seen people do the same thing with a
   spinning jump side thrust kick (jump back side kick to some people;
   jumping dui yup chagi to others), which is an even stronger kick.

As many people have noted, the jumping kicks (and particularly the 
retreating jumping kicks) lose some power vs. standing kicks, because 
of the lack of a stable base.  If properly executed, however, they
gain some power because they are executed from a greater height, 
kicking down.  I know a guy who is not especially agile or graceful,
but who can execute this kick with great success because he has
good timing and can come down with his full weight into the kick.  
He can reliably knock opponents off their feet, even when he does
this as a retreating kick.  


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Stephen Chans e-mail
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:29:24 GMT


sorry to put this on the net, but i need stephens e-mail. the mail
i sent to him bounced far and wide.

thanks,

mukund
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:09:51 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <lafi8lINNa3o@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:

>	While constant Kiai's while fighting might make you loose energy
>(it will also loose what ever effectiveness against an opponent it might
>have had), one or two well timed Kiais seem to give enegery...at least to
>me.


  Speaking on behalf of all kendo players, you know kendo the MA
  where you kia constantly.  You kia before striking after striking
  and while striking.  I cannot imagine generating much energy against
  more skilled opponents without emitting the most intense amount of kia
  noise possible.
>
>	Braething is an important part of fighting.  If Kiai's and
>grunting get in the way of "proper" breathing, then they are not good.

 Kia is taught so that you breath properly.  You exhale while attacking
 and get creamed (cannot move) when you inhale.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kiai as a weapon...
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:56:06 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

>	I was fascinated by the post reporting SEEING a kiai used to make birds
>fall out of the air. I wonder if the shouter would have got a higher success
>rate had they been a trained singer. 
>
 
   Or if he had tried it with penguins.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:18:27

   In article <715302097snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk  
   ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
   > Sorry but using a gun against a machete seems a bit of an
   > overkill.

	OUCH!

	What are you? Some kind of "sportsmanlike" fighter? 1/2 :-)

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: M. Lala bouts (for Todd)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:05:34 GMT


11-Sep-92 12:04	stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)	Re: Thai
boxing (boxing and kicks)

>Peter, could you describe how the matches went ?  Were they similar in
>format to the Gracie bareknuckle matches ?  What kind of opponents, and how 
>did they tend to finish up ?  Kick knoockouts, hand knockout, joint locks,
>stalemates ?

They were mostly "blitzkreig" -type bouts between young ( <= 20 yrs).  I 
believe every knockout I saw was a kick to the head knockout.  There was also
a TKO and a knockdown from a series of vicious kicks to his opponent's 
femur.  There were no finishing techniques applied, nor were there joint 
locks or wrestling, although he teaches some of that in the surrounding tape.
All the knockouts took less than a minute to transpire.  Hence the title:
"How to knock out an opponent in one minute or less" (or something like that).

I just had to respect this guy's in shapeness.  I doubt I would be much of
a challenge to him unless I were able to make it past his feet.  He trains
real real hard, and a lot.  After a days work, I workout about 2 hours or
3 max.  

I also can't help but wonder why someone is willing to put his eyes and teeth
at risk in a sport contest whose outcome actually means so little except to 
one's own ego.   For example, those matches don't really tell Mr. Lala that
he won't be pounded into the cement by some ordinary street fighter someday.
And myself, the only kind of fight I am interested in fighting is one where
my life is at stake.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kiai again   (was Re: Attitudes)
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:45:11 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <091192155029dude@losers.hacktic.nl> dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:
> Hatsumi (i think) describes stunts as breaking stones on your chest with a
> sledgehammer, paralyzing frogs, and resisting a staff with one finger.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Finally some useful techniques for everyday selfdefense.  :-)
    
     Maybe the advanced people learn to paralyze frogs with a sledgehammer.
     Again we offer the :-) for the humor impaired.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:13:10 GMT

>>Well in general it is true for all Martial Artists that they could
>>always come up against someone bigger, stronger or better trained
>>then them. But we all have to start somewhere. This is a good place
>>for women to start.
>
>My impression was that Model Mugging was set up as a single,
>several week long course. It might be a very good place to start,
>but it doesn't seem to lead to, or continue on into, anything building
>on this start. Worse, it seems (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>that it gives women an incorrect impression about the need for
>such continuing training.
>
>                                                   Frank Crary
>                                                   CU Boulder
Frank... That is the 'begining' or 'introductory' course....  And
some women go on to take MA after taking MM who would not have
otherwise.... This is a good 'self defence' class it is not a full
blown MA unless you become an instructor. Many women go on to become
instuctors and their trianing is quite demanding...

Fer
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts