HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Age-gap relationships
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:52:18 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov5.190053.24326@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com 
   (Bob Donahue) writes:

>[Dan recounts the interaction of his partner and his family - Thanks!]
  ^^^

[tiny_comment_mode_on]   "Daniel", please.    [tiny_comment_mode_off]

>	Anyway, while the "g" word has never quite been uttered, we've
>been playing this dancing around game for YEARS.  

>It's not denial, per se, and it's not unacceptance - I don't know
          ^^^^^^

Enough with the anagrams!  :-)

>what to call it.  but since it isn't interfering with my life, I
>choose not to shake the tree

This rings true in my family.  I can recall only my sister-in-law
using the "g" word when speaking with me.

>	So, along comes Fred, and I move in wwith him.  Mom and Dad
>wait a few weeks then start the "so when are we going to meet your
>roommmate?" 
 ^^^^^^^^^

My parents (and the rest of my family) have always just called Bob
by his first name.  My mother, in addition, has an amusing word
to refer to the unmarried partners of her children.  My sister's
boyfriend, my brother's live-in girlfriend, and Bob are
collectively referred to as "the consorts".  Sigh.

I'm sure she means well, but it sounds silly.  
Bob says he feels like royalty.  Hmmm, if Bob is the
prince consort, does that make me the queen?
-- 
Daniel Gilly                                   dgilly@us.oracle.com 
                                               Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:42:57 GMT

In article <BxDouy.GFp@queernet.org>, rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.013920.18505@Princeton.EDU>, spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
>(S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>|> ... we have different ideas as to what exactly soc.motss should be for.
>|> I'm sorry we disagree.
>
>I'm sorry you feel the need to reinvent it.  Those of us who have been here for
>a while (it's over seven years for me, and lots of others who are here preceded
>me) have always known Arne's reasons to be among the reasons soc.motss (and
>before it, net.motss) was here.  If you only want to address gay issues, feel
>free to do so.  But don't tell us what to do.

You are perhaps reading too much into what I am saying, or I'm not being
open enough.  It was not my intention to direct people what to do.  After
I offered to take the discussion into e-mail, some people nevertheless
followed-up into soc.motss, giving reasons in support of the "soc.motss is
for anything motss people want to talk about" view.  I felt it only fair
if I offered my reasons as to why soc.motss should be about only
motss-related issues.

I do not recall ever trying to force someone to conform to my view.
I would like it if everyone did, but that is highly unrealistic.

I am not going to contest the reasons for which soc.motss/net.motss was
created; I've only been reading s.m for 6 months now.  But I would like
to suggest that perhaps the context under which it was created is a bit
outdated now.  i.e., some of the reasons for which it was created way
back when  are no longer valid.  Maybe not.  You tell me, I'm not in a
position to know.

Seems to me that, the net being a dynamic thing, it wouldn't be
earth-shattering if people were to decide that their goals or purposes
for a newsgroup had changed in 7 years.  Just because it was created as
a forum for X 7 years ago doesn't mean it will have to be a forum for
X for eternity.

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"The pit of despair!  Don't even think about <hack!  cough!  arrrrhem!>
Don't even think about trying to escape."
From: andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Melrose Place
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:00:35 GMT
Distribution: soc.motss
Organization: NJIT - EIES2


Did any else catch the reference to OR-2 and CO-9 in last nights
episode of Melrose Place?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:56:58 GMT

stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:

>Seen on a teeshirt:  "So many gerbils, so little time."

Or, to quote our own John Flanagan:

  "Gerbils.  How tired.  Have you met my pet porcupine?"

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Worst remake of gay song/Worst gay remake of song
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:57:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.155743.25532
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I noticed Dave Barry is having a contest for worst rock song, and worst
rock lyrics.

We need something a little more motss oriented.

Votes for worst straight singer remake of a 'gay' song ...and...

Votes for worst 'gay' remake of a straight song.


Obmotss ref...let me think...

Sandy			You know your culture from your trash
			You know your plastic from your cast
				Peter Gabriel---	Us
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chadwick@teal.csn.org (Chad Donovan Marks)
Subject: Re: Melrose Place
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: soc.motss
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:19:47 GMT

Scott Sturgis (ssturgis@netcom.com) writes:
>>>
>>>Did any else catch the reference to OR-2 and CO-9 in last nights
>>>episode of Melrose Place?

I watched it too, for the first time.  I have to give credit to Fox, not only
for its portrayal of a gay character, but for being so topical.  Its thread
about Matt being fired for being gay and its mention of OR and CO were
right on.
   
>Doug Savant Writes:
>
> "[...] I am just now beginning to understand how important it will be to gay
> teens everywhere to have a positive role model to identify with. How
> necessary it is to the gay community at large to have an honest, [...]

How true.  It is interesting.  The first (and only other) time I started 
watching a TV show specifically because it had a gay character was when I 
started watching Dynasty.  This was in the early 80's and I was in my early
teens at the time.  The character, Stephen Carrington, was out but not accepted
by his family or co-workers.  I remember one episode where Stephen had been
strung up by his co-workers and they were all standing around taunting him.
I thought then, I'll never tell anyone I'm gay.  And I never did, until about
ten years later ... ten years too late.


<sigh>

-- Chadwick.


==== Precision Visuals, Inc. =============================================/\==
                                                                   /\   ^/,^\
       6230 Lookout Road       "Innovation with Information"    .^/ /\/\/ \_\-
       Boulder, CO 80301                                _________/`/ '\ ^-, \
                               ____________,------------' boulder!pvi!chadwick
======= (303) 530-9000 =======/===============================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Eugen W. Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 13:14:31 GMT

In article <BxB67E.78E@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
writes: >Eugen W. Schmidt (gsmith@clio.uucp) wrote:

>        Eugen:

>        Irgendwie hat man deinen "Login Name" falsch geschaffen.  
>        Wahrscheinlich soll es "eschmidt" oder "eugens" sein.  
>        Zweifellos kann dein Sysadm helfen, alles richtig zu
>        machen.

Stupid me.  I'll get right on the problem.  Of course, if I am very,
very good, the powers that be *might* let me go back to being plain
old Gene Smith.  Then I won't need to worry about it.

-- 
   Eugen W. Schmidt/Der Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals raising children
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:22:10 GMT

Jim Hubbs (jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu) wrote:
> ttoon@saxon.ling.lsa.umich.edu (Thomas Toon) writes:
> 
> >older (sixteen year old) son I am gay, his immediate reply was, "How many  
> >people know?"  After he heard the answer, he said, "I wish I had been the  
> >second person you told rather than the sixth."  He then asked me what's for  

> It's good that you told him yourself.  If they find out from someone
> else it can really destroy trust in the relationship.  I came out
> to my 7 year old daughter soon after I told my wife.  She could 
> grasp the concept, but was fortunately still young enough that
> she hadn't yet been affected by societal attitudes on the subject.

I finally said "I'm gay" to my 9-year-old son, after a few years of
beating around the bush talking about having a "very close
relationship with Bill", and "being partners with Bill, just like
I used to be partners with your Mom."  I hoped I was getting something
across with the latter two, but now I'm not so sure, because when I
said "I'm gay", my son immediately started to try to find ways to deny
it.  I think he's gotten the idea real clearly from his peers that
gay = bad.

So I may have waited a little too long.  Now I have to do some kind
of "damage control", I guess.  

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:04:06 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss



The role of a drama school is to prepare actors for life on the stage.
If a drama school were to overlook an individual's 'mannerisms' while
the student was in the comfortable embrace of academia - they 
wouldn't be doing anyone any favors.  The actor would not get parts,
and more importantly (from the school's perspective) - the institution
would have a mark against it.  

And CMU would not be asking the student to change his sexuality, in
any case.  They are asking the student to change for the purposes
and duration of a play.

My take is that the student wrapped himself in homosexual mannerisms
as 'an angle' to get parts.  The student was probably reprimanded
on numerous occasions by the instructors.  The student seized the
moral high ground and told them to fuck off.  The school canned
him.  And now the issue has been reversed.  Instead of a provacateur,
we have a helpless victim.  Instead of a drama school trying to
turn out actors who can and will get parts in prestigious productions,
we have a drama school bent on the persecution of homosexuals.

The former trick is vintage PC:  if you don't like something, paint
it as opression and make a lot of noise, with the intent of 
drowning any and all legitimate concerns that may be in your way.

And as for a drama school persecuting homosexuals, get real.  Half
the men in theater are homosexual, and the other half are their
straight lovers.

*X*
(who remembers a passage for the biography of David Selznick, which
alludes to the fact that Rhett Butler enjoyed partaking in a 
little oral service from his homosexual comrades - now and then)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:11:58 GMT

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>But what Colorado law(s) provide protection on that basis
>now that this amendment has passed?  I thought this
>amendment explicitly voided the Denver, Boulder and Aspen
>non-discrimination ordinances?

    No, it didn't have specific language voiding those ordinances, just said
that those ordinances can't be used to provide protection on the basis of
a gay/les/bi orientation.  Since (presumably) those ordinances simply added
"sexual orientation" to the list of protected things, straight people are
now effectively still protected by them while gay people are not.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Who can doubt that pleasure is the only goal of a reasoned life?"
                                                   -- Epicurus
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 14 Nov 92 00:13:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov14.001314.24628
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <Bxnrno.GBo@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>The primary role of a drama school is to teach acting, not prepare professional
>actors.
>The primary role of a chemistry program is to teach chemistry, not prepare
>professional chemists.

Yeah, well, if you say so.  And Julliard's role is to teach music, not
prepare professional musicians.  Right.  Keep tooting that horn.

I imagine that admissions officers of the graduate programs in the
most competitive programs in both the arts and sciences would probably
state it somewhat differently.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
	<mattm-111192104825@mcmelmon.apple.com> <Bxnrno.GBo@queernet.org>
	<1992Nov14.001314.24628@spdcc.com>
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:25:44

In article <1992Nov14.001314.24628@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) writes: 

   In article <Bxnrno.GBo@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
   >The primary role of a drama school is to teach acting, not prepare professional
   >actors.
   >The primary role of a chemistry program is to teach chemistry, not prepare
   >professional chemists.

   Yeah, well, if you say so.  And Julliard's role is to teach music, not
   prepare professional musicians.  Right.  Keep tooting that horn.

   I imagine that admissions officers of the graduate programs in the
   most competitive programs in both the arts and sciences would probably
   state it somewhat differently.

Indeed.  I wonder what would happen if Stanford's graduate school of
engineering said "Since men, or possibly women who are as
sterotypically assertive as men, are going to be better able to relate
to the many crusty, sexist male engineers still working in the field,
the following behaviors are considered 'unprofessional', (...)"?

What they actually say, of course, is that the program is designed to
train professionals to work in their field.  But the admissions office
does not admit based solely on factors which correlate well with
academic success and post graduate success in the relevant field.

Should the admissions office do so?

- Bob
From: dorsieh@agora.rain.com (Dorsie Hathaway)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: 700 Club
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:50:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BxD8ox.Cn1
Organization: Open Communications Forum

In article <1992Nov5.140552.13667@nmt.edu> jefu@akbar.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam) writes:
>
>In keeping with my occasional habit, I watched a few minutes of
>Pat Robertson on the 700 Club last night.  (I cant stomach
>more than a couple minutes without wanting to do something
>violent.)  Dont forget that these guys have access to a 
>cable channel carried in almost all cable systems (more
>than CSPAN I've heard - we dont get CSPAN here in Socorro,
>we do get three (I think) religious channels.) and can 
>(and will) use this as a continuing propaganda platform.  
>
>like "the baby could be going down the birth canal and someone
>would say, 'I dont want it' and kill it".  
>
>He forecast dire effects on the economy from CLinton - hinting
>religious broadcasts that do the same.  We cant just fight
>by organizing against every initiative, city ordinance or
>politial candidate they throw up (deliberate choice of words)
>we need to effect change at a lower level, one that will
>affect every part of society.  Of course, the question is
>how?

I can't say this strongly enough!  It's time to wake up and
look around us.  IF YOU HAVE CABLE...start watching CBN.
Pay attention to the rhetoric and the tactics of the far
right wing evangelicals.  IT is RIGHT there to watch.  They
are not hiding in some back room, there's nobody at the door,
all you have to do to educate yourself about them is channel-surf.

They are building a law school.  Last night's 700  club had
some right wing law leader saying "We must infiltrate the 
school boards all across the country". 

Pat Robertson's organization has declared WAR on us, folks,
and we were caught sleeping. It's time to study them and their
tactics.  When you next turn on the 700 club or CBN, write
down all their 800 numbers and start using them.  Ask for free
copies of their books.  Find out what they are doing in your
neighborhood.  Find out how they slant the news.

If you don't like the person running for office, run against
them.  If you dont' like what the school board is doing, run
for a position on it yourself.  GIVE money to every local
pro-gay candidate you can, even if it's only $10...I managed
to give over $150 to No on 9, local gay-positive candidates,
and Clinton's campaign over the past few months..for once,
everyone I voted for was elected, with the exception of 
Les Aucoin.

Dorsie Hathaway
Portland, Oregon
aka pdx-motss-mom

s>
>--
>jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
>"Overturn the dominant paradigm"


-- 
--Dorsie Hathaway, Technical Writer	INTERNET:	Dorsieh@agora.rain.com
					     		Dorsieh@atlastele.com
				             AOL:	DorsieH		
--Do I look like a fiction writer to you?
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clueing in Friends (Re: Coming out to parents)
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:45:26 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
 >An important straight friend of mine told me, when I finally
 >got around to coming out to him, that he had known the scoop
 >for a long time, and that my never mentioning it to him made
 >him feel bad, as though I didn't trust him or want to let
 >him into this important aspect of my person.  It cleared up
 >a lot of things for both of us to finally get that out in
 >the open and start dealing with it.

I've mentioned this before, but it seems apropos of Jess's comment:

I have a friend who never quite came out to me.  I'd assumed that he
was gay, but he was rather young and I wasn't sure whether he really
was, or if he was out to himself, or whatever.  Since it didn't
matter to our friendship, I never asked him.  Eventually (I'm
talking several years here) he mentioned a relationship in terms
that made it clear.  We talked about that relationship, and then,
afterwards, I pointed out to him that he'd never actually come out
to me before.  He said that it always had seemed a little beside the
point.

I guess there are all kinds of silences.  Ours turned out to have
been companionable.  (The only thing that ever gave me pause about
him was whether, if he were not already out to himself, he'd go
through a rough time over that.)

 

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: brad@Apple.COM (Brad Zaller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Seed-stealing squirrels
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:59:02 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


I arrived home yesterday, only to be greeted by a stack of junk mail
precariously stuffed into my mailbox.  Among the items of non-interest
was a catalog from "Plow & Hearth - Products for Country Living" (how
*do* I get on these mailing lists?...)

  I thumbed through this purported junk mail, intending to throw it out
forewith, but then I happened upon page 25 -- "Squirrel Accessories".

Among the many items advertized (and, no, I'm *not* making these
up!) are:


Item #8134: The Squirrel Spinner     $16.95

  Train Your Squirrels to be Acrobats!

  Squirrels have proven their cunning with food is the goal, but you don't
buy birdseed for them.  Our Squirrel Spinner will lure them away from your
feeders.  Mountit on a tree using the scres provided and secure four
ears of corn on the screw-eyes atached to the ends of the spokes.  When
squirrels go for the corn, they'll be spun around; watch then try again and
again.  Squirrels enjoy the challenge of trying to get the corn off
the spinner, distracting them from the food in your feeders!  The spokes
measure 28 1/2" across, with a 13" standoff from the mounting
surface.  (Corn not included and not available for shipment to California.)

Item #8152: Squirrel Teeter-Totter  $29.95

  Playground Equipment For Squirrels!

  This frisky animal's natural playfulness and fondness for corn are
both satisfied by our Squirrel Teeter-Totter.  Secure corn on the
skewers at each "table" and wat for the fun to begin.  Made of
weather-resistant red cedar, the see-saw measures 29"L x 5"W overall.
Comes with hardware for mounting.  (Corn not included and not available
for shipment to California.)

Item #3200: Squirrel Throne        $21.95

  Give Squirrels A Banquet Of Their Own!

  Squirrels waste expensive seed, kicking a lot of it on the ground
while they seek the treats they like, but they need food, too.  With that in
mind, we offer the squirrels their own feeder, complete with a dining table
and a perch for the frisky visitors.  Made of long-lasting red cedar,
ready to hang on a tree or wall.  It has a skewer for holding corn.
(Corn not included and not available for shipment to California.)

And, my favourite...

Item #3242: Outwitting Squirrels (book)  $8.95

  How To Be Smarter Than Squirrels

  Here are 101 strategies for dealing with those cute but annoying seed-
stealers.  170 pages of sound advice, with a resource glossary.  Paperback.


  Well, we all know a certain seed-stealing, teeter-tottering (well, teetering,
anyway) acrobatic squirrel who might find glee in some of the above
devices.  Why, this catalog is a veritable cornucopia of squirrel delight,
-- far surpassing the Mr. S Leather catalog from which I *was* going to
do my squirrel holiday shopping this year, but now I'm rethinking that
strategy...

  What say you, faithful fans of our bouyant aboreal rodent?  

bz
-- 
Brad Zaller               ---    I love my country;
apple computer, inc.      ---    I fear my government.