HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: 10Base-T question and Re: STARLAN
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:09:52 GMT
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division

In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet, U41602@uicvm.uic.edu (Rich Chong) writes:

    I wanted to make a 10Base-T null-modem connector to attach two
    Ethernet 10Base-T cards for testing. Question is this:
    Since the cable is only swapping Transmit and Receive pairs
    (1&2 with 3&6) in the line, will it work to connect 3 10Base-T
    cards with a Y-cable which is wired as a ring as diagramed below?

             (1,2)A(3,6)            I somehow doubt that it will work
             /         \            (perhaps received packets which arent
            /           \           meant for an adapter wont be re-trans-
           /             \          mitted out.) I realize that I would
          /               \         lose the capability to keep the net up
         /                 \        if any one goes down, but just curious.
      (3,6)B(1,2)---(3,6)C(1,2)
No, it won't work.  A 10BASE-T device does not trasfer data from the receive
line to the transmit pair.  If it did, it would be perceived as a collision.
Collision is detected when a node is receiving and transmitting at the 
same time.

    Re: STARLAN
    I'm not sure if this is something different between Starlan and 10Base-T
    but the computer store I went to only had Starlan UTP RJ-45 cables.
    So I bought and succesfully used it for my tests. While modifying the
    cable, I noticed that the pairs wern't wired to 10Base-T RJ-45 pairs.
    Not sure if it is 10Base-T specific anyways, but they wired the 4 pairs
    of wires to 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, 7&8  rather than expected 1&2, 3&6, 4&5, 7&8.
    This will lead to cross-talk and is probably something folks should
    watch out for when wiring or ordering the cables.
10BASE-T and 1BASE5 (and all the pre-10BASE-T 10 Mbps Ethernet devices that
I know of all use) the same pairing.  It is also the standard pairing for
8 pin connectors in building wiring.  I would take the cable back.  The name
StarLAN has been used as a product name for some 1BASE5, some pre-10BASE-T
twisted pair Ethernet and some 10BASE-T devices.  All of these use the pairs
1&2 and 3&6.

It may work under some circumstances, but when you plug it into a 10BASE-T
device, you are in effect using an non-twisted pair for one of the signals.
That can lead to increased emmissions and increased susceptability to 
external noise.

Pat Thaler
From: mwr@tridom.uucp (Mark Reardon)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: SQE
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:06:19 GMT
Reply-To: mwr@tridom.uucp (Mark Reardon)
Organization: AT&T Tridom; Marietta, Georgia

Could points all around.  I'd like to add a couple of my own (at
least I think their good).  

As a software developer for ethernet,
I have had to deal with the issue of counting SQE, causing major
alarms for it, or ignoring it.  The last I find unacceptable.
Many customers however, insist that they be allowed to run without
it and don't want alarms set off for each packet transmitted.  My
friends in marketing like to sell to anyone and so I have to be
happy to just count SQE and if possible allow the customer to
configure if it should trigger an alarm.

At least three times in the last five years, I have been called
to diagnose a problem at a customer's site that would have been 
caught had SQE been enabled on the tranceiver.  Imagine, your
responsible to keep your net up and it is limping because of
faulty tranceiver on a terminal server or router.  You call for
help and wait a day for someone to show up (like me).  And, when
that person does show up it is shown that if you would only 
configure your cabling properly you could have diagnosed and fixed
the problem in a matter of minutes.  Now imagine that your company
is a major stock trading company and all of your brokers were down 
for a day and a half because of your mistake.  Where's your new
place of employment?

SQE has a purpose.  USE IT.

My other point.  There are some controllers on the market that require
SQE.  Otherwise, after each transmission the controller has to have
the error condition cleared.  It may be a minor point, but the clearing
of this condition after every transmission steals CPU cycles from other
functions that the processor should be doing.  This can have a serious
effect on the through put of a device connected to the ethernet.
-- 
Mark

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Reardon           |  AT&T Tridom                             |
| mwr@eng.tridom.com     |  840 Franklin Court                      |
|                        |  Marietta, GA 30067                      |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:27:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Repeater rule
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet

    > >5) When a network path consists of three repeater sets and four
    > >   segments, the maximum allowable length of the FOIRL segments is 
    > >   1000 m each as specified in 9.9.
    > 
    > Can we have two link segments with 1000m each in this case?

    Not really. The rule is based on propagation delay. If we have two
    500 meter coax segment + two 1000 meter fiber links, plus 3 repeaters
    the prop delay will exceed the 46.4 us maximum (worst-case, round trip).
    There is a very good table in the Ethernet specificiation showing all 
    pf the numbers. I used to spend my life counting nanoseconds...
    -- 
    Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting

Well, Rich, I still spend my life counting nanoseconds (when I'm not
counting millivolts and other obscure quantities).  I was one of
the people who generated the calculation that verified that in a 
four segment network, two FOIRLs used to connect the repeaters with
1000 Km of cable each fits within the roundtrip delay budget.  You
gain enough by deleting 1 500-m coax segment from the traditional
5 segment network to add the extra 1 Km of cable.

The calculations in the Ethernet specification and in IEEE 802.3 were
done before the repeater was fully defined and before the FOIRL was
defined (a single lump number was used for the inter-repeater link
segment delay).  Even some of the other numbers are not absolutely
correct: delays in the DTEs and collision delays on the coax.  They
record the state of knowledge at the time they were done and formed
a strong base for future work.  They are no longer accurate.  The new
calculations which are a part of P802.3J 10BASE-F were reviewed by
some of the people who generated the original calculations and who
worked on the Systems Topology Task Force of IEEE 802.3 (which I chaired)
to refine our knowledge.

10BASE-F has completed sponsor ballot (the final letter ballot in the
approval process).  It will be going to a confirmation ballot because
of one technical change (we loosened one optical spec) and an 
unresolved disapprove (someone wanted a different connector).  Hopefully,
it will be published by spring.  Copies of the draft are available
from AlphaGraphics:
  IEEE Document Distribution Service
  c/o AlphaGraphics  Attn: P. Thrush
  10215 N. 35th Ave, Suite A&B
  Phoenix, AZ 85051
  (602) 863-0999 or Fax: (602) 866-8801

It is document number 3.18 P802.3J.  

Pat Thaler

From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:37:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Is Starlan really Ethernet?
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet

In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet, LORAX@wvnvm.wvnet.edu (David Neal) writes:

    We want to replace our Starlan network with something that actually works
    but we have a lot of money invested in the hardware.  From what I understand
    Starlan is just a variation of Ethernet made to run over twisted pair wiring.
    In fact the microchannel NICs in our PS/2s have "Ungerman-Bass" printed on
    them and have a D-shell connector on the back which is then connected to an
    external box that adapts them to an RJ-45 jack.  Our ISA boards have the RJ-45
    jack built in.  Do these boards conform to the 10Base-T standard?  Can we just
    swap the Stargroup software with Netware and keep rolling?

David,

Two things have been sold under the name of StarLAN.  First there was
a 1 Mb/s version of IEEE 802.3 over twisted pair.  This was done in the
mid '80s when we didn't think we could do 10 Mb/s over twisted pair.
The name in the standard was 1BASE5, but most product was called StarLAN,
a name that came from AT&T who originally proposed 1BASE5.  Obviously,
such products neither conform to 10BASE-T nor directly interoperate with
it.  They can be connected to a 10BASE-T network through a bridge.

Some companies (mainly HP, AT&T and perhaps UB) called their early (pre-
10BASE-T standard) 10 Mb/s twisted pair products StarLAN-10.  These products
are similar to 10BASE-T except they don't perform the Link Test Function
which was defined after they were on the market.  Except for Link Test,
they where fairly similar to what was defined in the standard.  Some
10BASE-T products allow the option of disabling Link Test for backwards
compatibility with the pre-standard products.   (This is similar to
turning off SQE test on a MAU to be backwards compatible with old stations.)

HP only used the name for pre-standard products.  Our 10BASE-T products
are called EtherTwist.  I don't know if AT&T or UB kept the name StarLAN-10
when they rolled to 10BASE-T.

Pat



Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: wo@rio70.snibln.de (Wolfgang Kalthoff)
Subject: Re: Like ODI but with Packet Drivers?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:42:31 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Info.Sys. AG, Paderborn, Germany

HI,
all you have to do is to link the ipx.obj with the BYU-stuff.
Then start your packetdriver with the -n option, which allows 802.3 packets.
Good luck!

--
Wolfgang Kalthoff    | S iemens             | EUnet: kalthoff.bln@sni.de
Gustav-Meyer-Allee 1 | N ixdorf             | USA  : kalthoff.bln@sni-usa.com
D-1000 Berlin 65     | I nformation Systems | Tel: +49-30-4673 2951 Fax: 2915
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Lan wire proximity to electrical
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:53:41 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Jul22.072417.25772@beach.csulb.edu> sichermn@beach.csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman) writes:
>  How close is it safe (transmission integrity-wise) to place 10baseT
>wire runs to electrical outlets and to electrical wiring which is in-
>the-wall and in flexible conduit...

People who have tried things like this, including some truly horrid
demos at places like Interop, say there is absolutely no problem.
Properly-designed differential transmission over twisted pair is *very*
noise resistant.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Help needed with CONEX
From: a_millsbs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:32:37 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Has anyone out there used the PD terminal program CONEX?

I am trying to get some ket redefinition done with this and I just cant seem to
get it right.  The english docs are REAL sparse and I dont know german so I am
just muddling through.

ANY help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Scott Mills                            (409) 568-1134
Computer Center -- Technical Support,     Stephen F. Austin State University
a_millsbs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu                P.O. Box 13012 SFA Station
root@calvin.sfasu.edu                     Nacogdoches, TX  75962
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: walt@unhsst.unh.edu (Walter R. Trachim)
Subject: Re: Mixing RG58/U and RG-59 cable
Organization: UNH Network Services, Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:48:23 GMT

In article <10992@rls.UUCP> randy@rls.UUCP (randy) writes:
>gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:
>> Max length of a thin segement is 185 meters (about 600 feet). You might 
>> be able to push that somewhat with excellent quality cable, but not with
>> RG-59. 
>
>How do you go about determining the length of thin line cable that
>wasn't installed too terribly well?  I have some cable run in a rambling
>and looping fashion throughout the laboratories.  A great deal of the
>cable is behind walls or above ceilings and we need to know what it will
>take to expand.  Anyone?
>

A TDR will do the job for you. remove the termination from both ends and
connect the TDR to one. Velocity of propagation nominally should be set to
0.66, impedance to 50 ohms.

Walt

-- 
 Walter R. Trachim		  |The measure of a person's life shouldn't be
 UNH Telecom and Network Services |how much they accomplished; rather, it 
 Durham, NH 03824                 |should be whether or not their deeds helped
 Walt_Trachim@unh.edu             |others along the way.         --WRT
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: jungkman@interlan.Interlan.COM (Bob Jungkman)
Subject: Racal-Datacom reply to M.Warfield regarding NP600 cards
Organization: Racal InterLan, Inc., Boxborough, MA (1-800-LAN-TALK)
Distribution: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, comp.sources.wanted
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:12:07 GMT

With respect to the comments from Mr. Michael Warfield (article included at
end of reply) regarding the company NCM (Networking and Computer Management),
InterLan products, SCO drivers and NP600 cards, Racal-Datacom/formerly Racal
InterLan, InterLan/ is issuing the following statement:

1.  NCM's affiliation with Racal-Datacom is that of a customer who had 
    purchased the rights to a small portion of the 'INTERLAN' product
    line.  Racal-Datacom does not dictate NCM's pricing or customer 
    service/satisfaction policies any more than we would dictate the 
    same to Mr. Warfield's consulting business.

2.  It appears that there was much confusion regarding the perceived
    outrageous cost of 'just an SCO driver'.  The NP600 card is an
    intelligent Ethernet protocol processing card, with it's own 80186
    processor and 512k of RAM.  The ideal application is to use the
    card in combination with software that operates on the cards as
    opposed to operating within the SCO kernel.  The benefit of this
    solution is that one does not have to purchase the TCP/IP option
    from SCO and the SCO host processor is not bogged down with the
    intensive overhead that TCP/IP takes to process.  As one can see,
    this is much more than 'just a driver' and is a competitively
    priced software package at $495.

3.  Of course, if one was to already have the TCP/IP software from
    their UNIX/XENIX vendor, then purchasing the NP600 card is not
    the solution.  A mainstream product such as an Ethernet datalink
    card is the solution of choice for most UNIX/XENIX users.  The 
    latest release of SCO (rel V.4) contains all the required drivers
    for Racal-Datacom cards for this application.
    		16 Bit = Interlan AT or Racal NI6510
    		32 Bit EISA = Racal ES3210
   (The 16 bit cards are approximately 50% less than the cost of the
   NP600 software solution with NO CHARGE for the streams drivers).

In summary, Racal-Datacom welcomes the opportunity to address this
or any other issues/concerns that one may have with the company's
policies, pricing, product utilization and application, or issues
with a third party Racal-Datacom reseller.  I strongly urge Mr. Warfield
and Mr. Weare to immediately contact Racal's technical services
department to resolve their respective problems.

Racal-Datacom  800-526-8255, 508-263-9929
Rick Jones, Mgr., Technical Services


(included article follows)

Xref: interlan.InterLan.COM comp.protocols.tcp-ip:10062 comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc:8184 comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:1119 comp.sources.wanted:8179
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:01:19 IST
From: Doron Shikmoni <P85025@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: 10basT Question

In article <53020001@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe)
says:
>
>The 10baseT chip transceiver from AMD automatically has polarity reversal.
>Therefore it wouldn't be necessary to use a crossover cable.

I think that would indeed be *polarity* reversal and not Xmt/Rcv reversal
- that is, it would work if you attach the Tx+ to the Rx- etc., but I think
it would *not* cross Xmt/Rcv, so you still not an X-over cable. I might
be wrong here though.

Doron
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: ellingsen_jim@Tandem.com (Jim Ellignsen)
Subject: NDIS Specification 
Organization: Tandem Computers
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:52:55 GMT

Does anyone know where I can get a current copy of the 
Microsoft Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS), 
hopefully via anonymous FTP.  

Thanks......Jim Ellingsen   ellingsen_jim@tandem.com 
            Tandem Computers
            Cupertino, CA 95014
From: npetalid@talos.cc.uch.gr
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: LAN measurement programs
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:05:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS

Hello netters,
 I am looking for programs that are used for LAN measurement,e.g:ttcp,NNStat
Does anybody know where I can find one or does anyone know other LAN measurement
programs except ttcp and NNStat?

						Thanks in advance,
						Nick C. Petalides
From: bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: July Microsoft NetNews available
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:12:18 GMT
Reply-To: bob@comlab.gatech.edu ()
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

For all you Microsoft LAN Manager and SQL Server users out there, I have just
uploaded the July issue of NetNews.  It can be had from "comlab.gatech.edu"
in the "/pub/lanman/netnews" directory.  

Just as a reminder, I also have the beta version of the OS/2 2.0 redirector
for LanMan.  The final version is supposed to be ready later this summer.

Bob

--
Bob Baggerman                         !  bob.baggerman@gtri.gatech.edu
Communications Laboratory             !  bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech Research Institute       !  qseclrb@prism.gatech.edu
Atlanta, GA  30332  USA               !  404-894-3525
From: bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Any experience with Macintosh connectivity for LanMan?
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:36:12 GMT
Reply-To: bob@comlab.gatech.edu ()
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Microsoft has recently announced a new program for academic purchases of
LAN Manager.  Part of the deal is Macintosh connectivity thrown in for no
additional charge.  I was wondering if anyone out in net land has any
experience with the LanMan Macintosh product.  I understand it needs a lot
of additional memory on the server to run.  Other than that I don't know
much but this offer is tempting.  Thanx in advance.

Bob
--
Bob Baggerman                         !  bob.baggerman@gtri.gatech.edu
Communications Laboratory             !  bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech Research Institute       !  qseclrb@prism.gatech.edu
Atlanta, GA  30332  USA               !  404-894-3525
From: harakka_j@salcjkl.salcom.fi
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Email address for datability?
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:31:06 EET
Organization: Salcom Finland, Jyvaskyla Finland

In article <1992Jul27.072716.8953@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au>, darrell@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (Darrell Boon) writes:
> Subject say it, anyone know a datability email address
> I'll take anything..

You can try postmaster@dss.com.


> Darrell Boon				Phone   :  +61-49-401-675
> Senior Systems Engineer			Fax     :  +61-49-402-165
> BHP Information Technology		Internet:  darrell@bhpese.oz.au
> P.O. Box 216 Hamilton 2303 AUSTRALIA

				regards,
						- juha -
From: npetalid@talos.cc.uch.gr
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Programs For LAN measurement
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:59:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS

Hello netters,
 I am looking for programs that are useful for LAN measurement,e.g ttcp,
NNStat.Does anybody know where I can find one?
							Nick C. Petalides
From: bjpst5@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Bryan J Petty)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Bridge hello messge format?
Date: 26 Jul 92 21:21:02 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


 Does anyone know the format for the Hello messages for an ethernet
 bridge? This is defined in the 802.1d draft (I think). thanks Bryan
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Is my transceiver connected?
Summary: maybe..
Date: 31 Jul 92 20:10:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <jpc.712506849@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov>, jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark) writes:
> Is there any simple way I can test to see if a transceiver cable is
> connected to a transceiver from the computer end of the cable?  Some
> sort of ohmmeter check, maybe?  I don't have a computer I can roll
> around to every location, unfortunately.
> 
> A few of these drops come from Cabletron MT-800 8-to-1 multiport
> transceivers.  I need to take this into account, too, because I don't
> know which drop goes to which type of transceiver.  The individual
> transceivers draw power from the computer, but I don't think that's
> true of MT-800 type devices.

The best way is to use either a portable computer or one of the
available Ethernet test boxes (e.g., Experdata) that can really
test not just continuity, but whether the drop is really functional
and connected to the net.

Barring that, you can check for continuity between pins 3-10, pins
5-12, and pins 2-9. If there is a transceiver (or multiport xcvr)
attached, there should be a transformer across each of these signals,
which will shown continuity.


-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: IEEE thin MAU and EthernetII thin MAU
Date: 31 Jul 92 20:11:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul31.044045.10449@nuscc.nus.sg>, ccewch@nuscc.nus.sg (Wong Chee Heng) writes:
> I know that there are differences between the two, but not very sure how 
> exactly they are, can someone pls highlight some of them to me? In 
> particular, how does these two types of MAU is being used for diferent
> equipement with AUI interfaces (is there a diffence between IEEE AUI and
> Ethernet II AUI ?) ? What will happen if the two are mixed up and how to
> prevent them from happen?
> 

There is no such thing as an Ethernet II thin-wire transceiver. Thin-wire
is defined only in the IEEE 802.3 specifications.

-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: hvisage@rkw-risc.cs.up.ac.za (Hendrik Visage)
Subject: Peerlogic PIPES
Summary: Looking for a distributed computing interface
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:20:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa
Keywords: distributed computing PIPES


I'm a computer science student and I'm looking for a EMail adress for Peerlogic, or any similar distributed computing software interface. Our department wants to install a distributed system on RS6000, MS-Windows, X-Windows, OS/2 and Netware. Any help would be appreciated.

H.Visage  <HVISAGE@rkw-risc.cs.up.ac.za>