From: madjdsad@aludra.usc.edu (Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Yuksel Parlatan, why don't you look before you leap?
Date: 8 Apr 1992 04:54:48 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

>|> Dear Sir, don't say I am totally wrong unless you read a number of sources.
>|> Here are some more for you to chew your brains out on:
>|>

>[Some estimates of Kurdish population in TR by western sources are deleted]

>|>
>|> Now if we throw in the 1 to 2 MILLION Kurds who have fled across the border
>|> to Turkey from Iraq in the last two years, plus figure in a minor rise in
>|> population we will come to the following figures : 9.2 - 13.8 million Kurds.

>    Well, first of all this 1 to 2 million is inflated, just as your estimates.
>    This number is somewhere about 600,000. However, a large majority of them
>    have already returned to Iraq with their own will about a year ago. Have yo
u
>    ever heard of 'safe haven = north of 36th parallel' which have been partly
>    defended by TR. Or do the news come late to CA.?

>    The above paragraph of yours show that you are either an ignorant, or a lia
r.
I am neither ignorant nor a liar.  Haven't you heard of the "fluid border"?
Also the Kurds have not been going back to Iraq like you claim -- the problem
for Turkey is that many of the Kurds have been moving between Turkey and Iraq
continuously since last year.  I say it is between 1 and 2 million, mostly
women and children, who keep running across the border every time Sadaam
Hussein starts attacking Kurdish villages.  They stay on that side of the
border for a few days and then go back to Iraq.  This is still going on.  I
would consider them to be in Turkey since that is where they are less likely to
be killed....  The fact is that many don't go to the camps but instead stay
in the mountains.  It is YOU who is the ignorant one if you think that these
Kurds aren't going to keep coming back to Turkey unless Sadaam is taken care
of.  In fact, they are likely to become permanent residents of Turkey unless
something is done in Iraq to ensure Kurdish safety.
However, I am willing to believe that the number is closer to 600,000.  My
numbers come from various relief agencies which admit that the counting of
the Kurds is EXTREMELY difficult and as the International Red Cross has been
saying "There is no reliable estimate of the number of Kurds which regularly
cross the border because of Sadaam's attacks." (ICRC, 1991)

>
>|>
>|> Now show me eight more sources to back up YOUR claims.
>|>
>|> "The Kurds have no friends."

>    TR's Kurds have 50M Turkish friends in TR.

The Kurds have no Turkish friends -- the Turks proved that by subjecting the
Kurds to a terrible status until 1991 in denying them the right to speak
Kurdish, the right to practice their culture and the right to call themselves
Kurds.  As I have stated before and will state again and again, these numbers
are ESTIMATES.  I will be happy to exclude all Iraqi Kurds from my estimate if
you wish (I am reasonable and willing to accomodate semi-coherent argument --
that is an indication of an individual who is willing to admit that he may not 
be perfect, so don't accurse me of lying or ignorance; if you would show the
same willingness to accept that you might be wrong and I may be right on a few
things, then I will be more than happy to revise my opinion of you from being a 
hateful propogandist to being a reasonable scholar.  We should be trying to 
LEARN here children (at least I am!), not throw stones.
This leaves the following numbers: 8.2 to 12.8 million Kurds, far far higher
than the 6 million cited by the other respondant and still encompassing my
PERSONAL estimates of 10-12 million Kurds cited in a previous article.  Compare
this to the Turkish estimate of (drum roll, please) 0 Kurds in Turkey during
the period 1924-1990.  Now who is the LIAR?  Turkey can't even count Kurds
which are PERMANENT RESIDENTS; how the hell are you expecting them to count
Kurds who are transients?  Any skills in lying, we learned from you.

Regards,

Zagros

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:3997 talk.politics.soviet:3257 soc.culture.soviet:2906 soc.culture.greek:3154 soc.culture.europe:3544 soc.rights.human:1334 soc.history:3466 talk.politics.mideast:10339