HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:23:41 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ged. . . how good is he?
	<1992Aug14.033508.8313@dsd.es.com) <86165@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<oeWp70O00VpZAF=Fg4@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<BszLsp.DJu.1@cs.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Aug-92 Re: Ged. . . how good
is he? Scott Draves@CS.CMU.EDU (233)

> zz> It takes more than andrew.cmu.edu in your path to be a good
> zz> player.

> ahem.  there's more to cmu netrek than andrew. :)


I figured that some CS person would point this out.  You knew what I
meant, though (I can spot a hopeless user.).

ZZnew guy
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:45:34 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: more questions about admirals! :)

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 21-Aug-92 more questions about
admira.. Dan Hua@garnet.berkeley. (493)

> AA  (stands for admiral admirer)


	Nothing to admire.

ZZnew guy
From: stimpy+@cmu.edu (Rick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the statboy:  SINL standings as of 8/13/92, evening...
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:44:40 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


     12M  HB   MA   CP   TC   RS   LU   GBO  SOD  AA   CD   GB    GG    w/l
     --- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- | --- | ---
SOD                                 LU  GBO             CD        GG    0/4


After ALL EIGHT team members posted about their victory over Lagg U, you
attempt to re-write history?!?!?
What's the story, "statboy"? And what happened to "sTaTbOy"?

--Rick
"Bronco Netrek Server. You will never find a more wretched hive of
scum and villainy." -- Admiral Kenobi (aka Terence Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: SINL finals (long...sorry :-))
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 04:46:42 GMT

In article <keXQahC00VpgA7v0Yu@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>
>
>
>I feel the INL rules need a little more work.  If the captains of
>opposing teams agree to something, it should be acceptable.  If team A is
>short and can't get someone to play, team B should be able to play
>them 7 on 7, or let them take a sub (subject to team B's approval,
>*regardless of whether they're on an INL team*), or loan them a
>player, etc.  If they want to push a game off, let them.  I just feel
>that teams should have more influence over what types of games should
>be played.  If captains feel scheduling a game isn't possible, let
>them call it a tie.  I feel this had little to do that both teams are
>from CMU; if it had been Crack Pot versus SOD and neither team could
>get most of its players, both captains would probably agree to something
>similar.   
>
>	joe
>	Purple haze

	These sort of team-to-team decisions should be perfectly
acceptable, provided that some neutral body is out there to approve
them.  In this case, I would say the INL council.  If two teams decide
to call a tie then they do so, with the officialness of that action
pending on the approval a majority of the INL council memebers.  This is
necessary to stop such things as two teams aggreeing to a tie which
then forces a mutual enemy out of the playoffs.

	-Michael 

--
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Moore                      \  "Love that desires to limit its|
|Evans & Sutherland Employee         \  own exercise is not love."    |
|University of Utah Student          /                                |
|Email      : mmoore@dsd.es.com     /                                 |
|Home Phone : (801) 359-6552        \                                 |
|Office     : (801) 582-5847 x 4721  \    -ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: horntho@eng.auburn.edu (Thomas J. Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: interesting strategy by a bunch of weenies
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:19:49 GMT
Reply-To: horntho@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

In article 713640325@mowgli, josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes) writes:
> Just left an interesting game at rwd4, it would be early afternoon
> Wednesday for you east coast types.
> 
> Klings against roms. Klings are mucus, spiff, four other clues, two
> not-bad newbies.
> 
> Roms are me (doctor), two half-clues, five no clues. We get stomped,
> right? Of course we do.
> 
> But we don't. We're down to four core planets, including one agri,
> and I'm defending, and defending, and for some reason, they're not
> trying to take 'em. I wonder why. Then I read the message: Orions
> genocided by mucus pig and cronies.
> 
> Wow, I think. What courage. What spunk. What Real Men they must be
> to genocide a third race that can muster one whole HAL.
> 
> And to be sure, they then came over and genocided us quickly. I can
> only defend so much. Now, this was good for my stats and all, killing
> the hordes of army-bearing klings, but this third race business has
> me mystified. They could have crushed us in five minutes whenever they
> chose, but they wasted everybody's time by taking third space.

Speaking as one of those newbie Klingons who were on there this afternoon, I personally helped Mucus in KLI space merely because I wanted to get my stats built up rather quickly. I know this is no real excuse, but it's what I was doing. Sorry if we offended you.

BTW, the highlight of this game (at least for me) came when MUCUS was a Romulan, KLI had 5 planets left (one agri), MUCUS scumming kills from the ROM starbase was a cruiser. I saw the SB there, but then I saw MUCUS and decided, "Why not?" So, I ogged MUCUS just to piss him off (which I greatly enjoy doing). After I killed him 4 times and he killed me but once (and me a lowly ensign), he left. I laughed for about 15 minutes until he rejoined as a Klingon...what a weenie....
  
--Tom (kill 1.10)
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: CFD anyone?
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:58:33 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
>r.g.n.programmer
>r.g.n.play
>r.g.n.borgs
>r.g.n.hockey
>r.g.n.league.inl  (moderated?)

	I would have:
r.g.n.programmer
r.g.n.play (rename of r.g.n)
r.g.n.inl

	I think that would be sufficient for the time being (and would keep
me from having to wade through all the INL game reports and "X is better at
Y than Z is" and "LR U is better FIFO U" arguments)...

-- 
"Rev on the redline, you're on your own; seems like a lifetime, but soon it's
 gone..."  Foreigner
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
From: botelle@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Bronco Lives
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:10:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Bored.. Restless?  

come to bronco... now

Justin
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: Re: Ged. . . how good is he?
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:15:31 GMT

In article <UeWorf200VpNIKmFYv@andrew.cmu.edu>, jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
|> 
|> >       You of course want to keep the pinnacle of CMU excellence in 
|> >pristine tact, so you see all my assertions that these folks are not
|> >any better than scores of others as attacks.
|> 
|> Question:  If the CMU players are just as good as everyone else, why
|> do they do so much better in the INL?
|> 
|> 	joe
|> 	Purple haze

There are >>MORE<< good cmu players than any other university, it doesn't 
            ^^^^
mean they are all gods.

Nor, in fact, any of them.


I think Mike is right in that too many CMU'ers have the opinion that all the
best players are there and that only good players can be produced there. 
Almost any time a non-CMU player is being touted as good in this group (and
heaven forbid it be that player saying it himself), and I mean REALLY good
not just clued, they are immediately attacked. 

Come on, are you so insecure that you can't handle someone saying someone
else is as good as Balton, etc. etc. If so, you are taking Netrek too seriously
and need a break from it.

Paul
From: sr26+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Alexander Racunas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Left direction harder?
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:46:15 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

This is quite possibly the most bizarre thing I have heard on this group.

How does the direction of motion make any difference at all?


P. S.  Just don't play Orions or Klingons I guess.  Jeez...


Val Ckurai
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: Re: SOLUTION TO FILLING UP ALL SERVERS
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:31:37 GMT

>Makes sense.  Perhaps the Q should be limited to 6 people, to add on in case
>of a major ghostbust or whatnot.

Maybe every server should have a designated auxillary with a message saying:

Calvin is full       (put the name in already)
Wait Queue: 10
Try newton.physics.ucla.edu you pinhead 


If everyone knows which server players are being directed to, they are more
likely to follow.

Paul

Icarus
Oral Annie
Big Nifty Balls
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ged. . . how good is he?
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:49:48 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <UeWorf200VpNIKmFYv@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>>       You of course want to keep the pinnacle of CMU excellence in 
>>pristine tact, so you see all my assertions that these folks are not
>>any better than scores of others as attacks.
>
>Question:  If the CMU players are just as good as everyone else, why
>do they do so much better in the INL?

They cheat.

>	joe
>	Purple haze

Oh, yeah...

:-)

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Enough of this misinformation (was Re:
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 07:52:12 GMT

In article <Bt0IJA.IED.1@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
>adc@tardis.msu.edu writes
>> Please John, do us all a favor and start illegally posting RSA so CMU
>> will cut your vauted little slip connection and boot you from the
>> University.  Really, your right, no one really cares about RSA.
>> Really, just ask the NIST.  ;-)
>
>Haven't you been following?  I don't have to *post* RSA, I just have
>to *read* it...
>
>PS Any idea on what the "license to redistribute" actually *is*?
>You've been there -- what's the deal?

	For anyone interested in this discussion, and what needs to be done
to use RSA in the next reserved.c, I suggest finding PGP on an ftp site (I
found it on some finland site), and reading the pgp.guide document that
comes with it.  Particularly the section titled Legal Issues.  (I would
post it, but I doubt the interest is strong enough, plus its a bit
longish.)  PGP is a set of programs to do PKE with RSA.  I believe this is
the package that caused a bit of hubbub a while ago over that patent.

	Also, I mailed rsaref-admin (or somesuch) at rsa.com, describing
what I wanted to do, and asking their view on it and what would need to be
done.  We'll see what happens... Who knows, maybe they'll say, "go ahead."
(yeah, right.. and I'm better than MUCUS)

--
                                          Ray Jones
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Minor whoops (pledit version)
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:50:35 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Sorry: pledit v1.01 is the most current.  v1.1 doesn't exist.  v1.01 exists
to fix the bug found in v1.0 (the .globals file was not being changed
correctly... bad version to reference when writing a tool which affects
the .globals stats!).

Please resume the current flame war.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: possible INL ideas
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 03:36:53 GMT

In article <QeY3WeG00VpJ93b159@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	I've been trying to think of a way to do three things at once: 1) play
>as many INL games as possible, 2) determine a champion from among the
>INL teams, and 3) not have anyone upset about any tie-breakers.
>	It seems like the most obvious solution is a simple round-robbin
>tournament.  The champion could be picked like this:
>[...]
>	If there are too many teams to have them all play round-robbin, then
>two divisions (East and West?) could be formed, champions of each
>division determined, and a championship played between them.  It would
>probably be better if everyone could play everyone else, but there will
>probably not enough be time. 

I dunno.. 12AM played a lot of scrimmages, and we could have played more, I
think.  It should be possible to play allof the teams (assuming that we
don't get a huge influx).

>[...]
>	*If two at-large teams, two teams on an agreed-neutral server, or two
>teams from the same collage play to a tie, sudden-death occurs.
>
>	I am interested in people's opinions of these ideas.

I don't know about treating teams *that* differently based on home/away/at
large.  But whatever the council decides, the hackers hacks....

>ZZnew guy

Ray
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
From: sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: the endless quest for the perfect keymap
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:27:25 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <714270723.756.0@typhoon.ucc.andrew.cmu.edu> stimpy+@cmu.edu (Rick) writes:
>What I meant was, those were all the admirals I could think of whose
>keymaps I could get because they have accounts on 'andrew.cmu.edu'
>I got them all from 'cat ~userid/.xtrekrc |grep keymap'
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>--Rick
>"Bronco Netrek Server. You will never find a more wretched hive of
>scum and villainy." -- Admiral Kenobi (aka Terence Chang)

These people have never heard of chmod?  andrew must be a really nice
place.

Scott
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: I will assault MUCUS(and he will not respond)
Originator: fortony@murphy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:47:48 GMT

botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle) writes:

>In article <1992Aug12.074149.21952@dsd.es.com) mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com (Michael Moore) writes:
>)
>)	MUCUS is a good player, but there are scores of others
>)his equal.  And if it is not his playing ability that people

>A score is 20.  Scores implies )= 40.  However, I'll let you off the hook
>if you can name 10.  No, make that 5.  I'm serious.  Of course, this is
>very subjective, but that's the way it is.

Red Shirt, Spaceman Spiff, Exxon Valdez, Balton, Val Ckurai.  Do you
need five more, or will this do for now?

>Justin (who used to enjoy your posts)
-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: swalvick@nynexst.com (Steve Walvick)
Subject: Re: Ged. . . how good is he?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 18:16:45 GMT

In article <BszE9H.43q.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Michael Moore writes
>=> 	You miss my point.  The point is that you guys consider the
>> top 5 or so netrek players to be from CMU.  And the folks you choose I
>> find to be not any better than many other players.  I challenge this,
>> but you couldn't possibly admit that there might be a player not from
>> CMU who is better than your choice and so it goes.....
>> 
>> 	-Michael (Ged... god it's late, I'm getting *gasp* rude...)
>
>Who are you referring to?  I don't think that the top 5 netrek players are  
>from CMU.  I think most of the top 10 players are from CMU.  Most of the  
>top 15 players are from CMU, and most of the top 20 players are from CMU.   
>There are some really great players out there.  I won't mention names, but  
>I do think most of the most skilled netrek players are currently at CMU.
>
>Rob
>aka Spaceace!

	It's probably too late to do anything about this, but this
thread...(as well as the Balton thread BTW) has become so warped
from the original subject of NeTrEttiqite (or whatever you want
to call it)   No one is claiming that MuCUS PIG is not a good
player, and frankly I don't think anyone really cares if he's in
the top 5 players of All-time or whatever (Thought I might want
to see that Tiddlywinks contest)  I think the point of the original
post was that some people do not appreciate the attitude (or 
persona if you will) of MUCUS and his fellow MUCUSITES (or whatever)
	I for one don't care how good he is, (yes I know that he
can whip MY butt anyday, but then most people can :)  All I'm
(and I think Mike as well) trying to say is that while it may be
amusing to some people (even I don't mind that much anymore) I think
it is ESPECIALLY rude when he does this to those who DO NOT KNOW
him.  How would you like to have someone you've never met before
come over to you while your doing whatever your doing and say "You
suck at that!  You are a <Your favorite profanity here>!"  May be
YOU don't mind, but there are those who do, and perhaps they are
new to the game and don't know the Ignore feature, or that MUCUS
pig is like that always, and to everyone.

	IMPORTANT NOTE:
	
	This thread was NOT intended by Michael to be an Ego-booster.
He did not mean to imply that he is better than anyone else, and I
think it was rather rude of some people to start a flame-Michael
war going on.  That had NOTHING AT ALL to with his posting, and even
after re-reading the previous postings I'm still unsure how this all
got mixed up.  I think we had enough EGOWARS with the Balton
affair, and a number of previous threads.

	Steven
	Elijah Bally, Kirk, Defenseless

p.s.	Try not to take things out of context, that's how
	misunderstandings are created....

p.p.s 	Remember...Elipses are our friends....


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bcranton@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian W. Cranton)
Subject: INL problems
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:38:08 GMT

I have been reading all the complaints with regards to the INL and so forth and
am left wondering why nobody has figured out that it is time to start another
league.  The INL is a formal competition, primarily college orientated
league set up for veteran players.  Isn't it about time for a B league for the
rest of us?  As it is, with only four games during the normal season, each team
doesn't even get to play half the other teams...

The INL is organized by and for good teams.  For example, consider the random
selection of which team will play which during the normal season.  One of my
favorite quotes from the descriptions of INL games went along the lines of 
"While trying to decide which of the three planets they had carriers heading 
for I should defend, they took a fourth planet as well."  I believe this was 
one of the 15 minute genocide games.

Another league should exist so that a new and novice team need not compete 
against the best that there is.  Doing so only creates a profession vs. 
amature type environment where even though both sides are trying, one side 
doesn't stand a chance from the start.  This is not a situation conducive to 
fun or learning.

Some may say that it is a good opertunity to learn, but that goes along the
lines of "seasoning the newbies" (i.e. if you hurt them enough they will learn
so as not to be hurt anymore, a philosophy that went out with spanking but is
still somewhat prevalent in pickup sports, not in organized sports).

Is there any support for the idea of a new B league?  If so, please send me 
e-mail.  I'll sift through the mail and post what people think (this is a 
better approach than to possibly add another 100 which basically convey the 
same three thoughts to this overly used newsgroup).
     Address:  bcranton@wpi.wpi.edu

I would just like to add that this is not intended as a "you are not playing
nice so I'll go play elsewhere" kind of suggestion.  It is only meant to
imply that there are varying degrees of skill when it comes to netrek and
that I think teams would find it more enjoyable to play other teams of
similar ability.  Additionally, if you have a league, each team should play
most of the other teams in the league, not just a random sampling of them.

                                     Brian
                                     bcranton@wpi.wpi.edu
                                    (DiodeLaser)

(Again, please send comments to me...there are already far too many messages
being posted here each day, I will do my best to summarize all opinions,
From: mehlhaff@soda.Berkeley.EDU (ERic Mehlhaff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Availability of Netrek Server Info Utilities
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:12:06
Organization: The U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jch+@cs.cmu.edu's message of Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:10:45 GMT


In article <Bt7Kpy.3yB.1@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:


   jjudy@argon.berkeley.edu (Jack W. Judy) writes
   > Is there an executable file (Dec 5000) {or simply the
   > source} I can get that will tell me
   > who is playing on a particular server?  Something like
   > ck_players?? which I have only heard of.

   The source to Ivan Vazquez's ck_players utility is available from any
   archive site.  Like, for example, mine :)

Unfortunately, you'd have to check _all_ servers to find a particular
person with that.  But of course, people have written shell-scripts
for this.  Unfortunately, you still won't be able to find out who
is on a server that has a wait queue.

BTW, METASERVER actually keeps data on who it finds playing on the servers
it polls. I just didn't write into it any way to output that information.
This will probably end up in the next fversion, when I get around to 
finishing it...

ERic mehlhaff, mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
metaserver author, netrek hacker extraboredinaire!
--
ERic mehlhaff					Hoser at large
mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:42:22 -0400 
From: "Julian L. Ho" <jh6j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SINL PLAYOFF UNOFFICIAL RANKING

While I think the ranking system is a little broken, I'm glad RS gets
to enjoy another game against AA.

ensign
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SINL finals
Date: 15 Aug 1992 21:01:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <YeXP1QS00VomI488pe@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Ahhh....perhaps you should ask the captain of GBO as to how much of "a
>weenie" he was when it came to scheduling the play off game between
>GBO and RS.  

Perhaps all of CMU should play from a b/w Sun 3/50 thru Berkeley's gateway
(or one that is just as bad)  Perhaps we'd see a little leveling.

5150