From: budd@playfair.Stanford.EDU (David Budd)
Subject: Re: But it is OK to coerce certain groups...
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 20:29:59 GMT

In article <1k6knkINN390@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (coram populo) writes:
>In article <1993Jan27.073620.1477@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:

>>WHO liquidated the kulaks? The State.
>>
>>WHO decimated the Jews? The State.
>
>Are you sure that only 10% of the entire population was/has been killed-
>or do you not understand the use of decimate?
(^^^^^^ keep in mind this attack against word usage until...^^^)
>>
>>WHO attacks the Kurds? The State.

>>
>>How many people has Exxon murdered? Zero.
>
>Unknown and it might a delayed responses- they did poison the coast
>of Alaska- Nah! they were doing us a favorite. 

(^^^^ you reach this posting. observe the use of the word "favorite"^^^)
Again, we see that "coram" has stuck his linguistic foot in his mouth.
while the abuse of the word "decimate" is perpetuated by the mass media,
the same group who have made it acceptable to use 'Media' as a
singular noun, the grammatical hatchet-job of using "favorite" here
has no such mitigating circumstances. 

>>How many people has US Steel murdered? Zero.
>
>Could have been killed in Steel factory because of unsafe (knowingly)
>conditions.
>
>>How many people has GM murdered? Zero.
>
>Well if we were to look at cars that were created unsafely (knowingly)
>maybe a lot.
>
>>How many people has IBM murdered? Zero.
>
>Unknown- it is possible that what IBM created has caused the death of
>people.  
>
>Is this enough conceptual chaining to satisfy you.
>
>And in all of the above examples you have left out the most obvious 
>connection that these corporations have, and that is with the State
>or government with which they "do their dealings"... So, by association
>alone, they are guilty of all of these murders that you speak of, that
>these states have perpetrated.
>
>Let's think about all of the large corporations that have run to the
>protection of the State.  
>
>>
>>
>>
>>How many people has the US, the UK, Germany, Japan, Russia, China, Vietnam,
>>Korea, Italy, ..., murdered (let's say, just the last 93 years)?
>>
>>50 million? 100 million? 
>>
>>
>
>The US is the people, Japan is the people, Italy is the people.
>
>GM, IBM, Exxon are made of these people.
>
>Do I therefore disconnect the people from what the state does, when
>they are in their businesses, do I disconnect the people from the
>businesses, when they are involved in their State?
>
>You are the one who made all the fuss about people who cannot make or
>keep conceptual connectivity, and therefore make connections between
>elements that appear to be different.
>
>Afterall, the State is the State and a business is a business, and there
>is no connection whatsoever.
>


The state is a state... and no connection whatsoever? interesting coming
from the mouth of someone at ucsc. I tend to come down on the
side of Ronzone on this one. it is almost certainly true that 
states have been responsible for more killing and ruthlessness
than has business in the history of the world, if for no other
reason than the age of the large company has been a (comparatively)
recent development. while it is true that many high-powered business
types step feely into the government, I would contend that
few businesses have as their prime objective harming citizens.
it is bad for business. on the other hand, we have states
such as the republic of south africa which seem bent
--
 !         \                                                                    !      1------1                     
 !\     1______1            __1__     "And my mind was filled with wonder,
 ! \    1______1      /   ____1____    when the evening headlines read:
 !      !   \        / /  1__|_|__1    'Richard Cory went home last night,