HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Revisionist Convicted AGAIN!
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.185745.27280@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>In article <15772@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul19.225535.11915@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg ) writes:
>
>>>town of Eckville, Alberta, has been convicted for the second time of
>>>wilfully promoting hatred against Jews.
>>>	Jusitce Arthur Lutz of the Court of Queen's Bench in nearby
>>>Red Deer fined James Keegstra $3,000 (Canadian) a few hours after a
>>>jury of eight women and four men found him guilty.
>>>	The verdict was the culmination of a four-month retrial in
>>>which 17 former students of Keegstra's testified that from 1978 to
>>>1982, he taught them that an evil worldwide Jewish conspiracy bent on
>>>destroying Christianity existed and that the Holocaust was a hoax.
>
>>While I think that a person teaching such hateful things should
>>be dismissed from their teaching position, I don't think the
>>government should jail people for "willfully promoting hatred".
>
>Canadians, you may be surprised to learn, support this law. With regard to
>your specific comment, I confess confusion. If you want to grant government
>the power to take away someone's livelihood, how does that differ from
>convicting them of a crime?

First of all, unless Keegstra worked for the government, I don't
think Mr. Banks was talking about the government taking away his
livelihood -- he was talking about the man's employer deciding that
they did not care to have such a person working for them, which is
their privilege. 

Second of all, there are the small matters of jail time, a lifetime
criminal record, and a variety of other little details that differentiate
a legal conviction from simple dismissal from one's job. (Among others,
the ability to find another job.) Third of all, while I don't have
any problems with this being the case where such a law is applied if
it exists at all, a government that permits itself to regulate the
speech of its citizens by force of law can do so as easily with re-
gard to lifetime jail sentences or death for criticizing the head of
state as it can on something like this. I prefer not to let them start,
even though it sounds like Mr. Keegstra was asking for it if anybody
was.

	-Nora 


Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:604 soc.history:6617
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: LEST WE FORGET: 1.5 Million Gassed: Maidanek
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:01:04 GMT
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: Maidanek

"MAIDANEK. Extermination camp located in German-occupied Poland about 2
miles from Lublin. It was regarded as in the same class as Belzec and
Sobibor. Like Belzec, Maidanek was originally a labor camp but was
transformed into a death camp ... Unlike Belzec, it had some
industrial activity. Non-Jewish prisoners were admitted. At first
death was induced by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, but later
hydrocyanic, or prussic, acid fumes were used following successful
tests at Belzec. It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates were gassed
at Maidanek. After Russian troops discovered the camp on July 23,
1944, Konstatin Simonov, a Soviet writer, wrote a full account of the
death camp for Pravda. In a special issue the London Illustrated News
published photographs of the gas chambers and ovens at Maidanek."

Taken from the ...----------------------------------------------------
Encyclopedia of the Third Reich, by Dr. Louis L. Snyder, Professor of
History, The City College and The City University of New York. Paragon
House, New York, 1989. ISBN 1-55778-144-3
----------------------------------------------------------------------

... in response to a question about the correct spelling for
Majdanek, I have received the following comments from UseNetters:

"Majdanek is a suburb of Lublin (located to the south of the city center)
and is spelled with 'j'. 'Maidanek' must be a distortion that somehow
crept into books.

Note that although the vast majority of Majdanek's victims were Jews,
they were not the only ones."

...and another:

"Maidanek, spelled variously depending on English-Polish transliteration, is a
regular extermination camp within the city limits of Lublin --- the city
streetcars go there.  I've visited the place, and in some ways it's at least as
gruesome as Auschwitz... there is a huge cocnrete half shell entirely filled
with the ashes and bone remains of the victims, and whole barracks full of
their belongings."

.. thank you.

Followups to alt.revisionism

-- 
"I boiled  the soap  out  of  the  bodies of women and men.  The process of
boiling alone took several days --  from 3 to 7.   During two manufacturing
processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap
were produced." (Mazur, from "Hitler's Death Camps")
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: chall@eatdust.uswest.com (Carlton Hall)
Subject: Info about SkyPix MLM
Reply-To: chall@eatdust.uswest.com (Carlton Hall)
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies, CO, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:19:15 GMT

Would like info of the SkyPix MLM.  dealer experience, product
experience or anything known about this MLM.
From: Carl.M.Jones@cm.cf.ac.uk (Carl Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Car Insurance Consequences of Joining AMWAY
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:28:25 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <REB.92Jul27092022@punch.EBay.Sun.COM> reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown) writes:
|
|
|>>>>> Carl.M.Jones@cm.cf.ac.uk (Carl Jones) writes:
|
|carl> I have been approached to become an AMWAY distributor.  I
|carl> declined for two reasons;
|
|carl> 1.  the products I tried were useless, and I wouldn't tell
|carl> friends of mine otherwise; and
|
|Shucks, the products I use are GREAT!! 

I tried the washing up liquid and the washing powder.  The washing up
liquid wasn't bad, but wasn't as economical as claimed, and the washing
powder didn't make any impression on a badly soiled coat.  Another brand
was significantly better.

I also looked at the nutritional supplements.  They were so overpriced
I couldn't believe anyone would buy them!


|carl> I was wondering how many other AMWAY distributors have
|carl> considered this, and how many were told this by their sponsor?
|
|For the most part, I thought that the challenges you presented were
|trivial compared to the amount of money I do and can make as a
|distributor. 

Is it trivial if you have an accident while delivering, and find
that your policy was invalid, and that you have to pay for all the
repairs yourself , and that you may suffer legal repercussions?
Wealth doesn't make you beyond the law!

|carl> I will assume that no reply means that this subject is taboo.
|
|Not taboo at all, this newsgroup is here to discuss any and all issues.
|It shouldn't be taboo to any Amway distributor, after all-- honesty and
|openess is the only way to sponsor really sharp people with integrity.
|
I agree, so a sponsor with integrity
should tell his/her would-be distributor about
every consequence should he/she could face. 

Regards,
Carl Jones
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: pete@ctdslc.aero.org (Pete Thomas)
Subject: Re: Car Insurance Consequences of Joining AMWAY
Keywords: insurance groups, AMWAY, delivery, selling, honesty
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:35:37 GMT

There are no "taboo" subjects in an alt group.  :-).

In my case I make no reply because I am ignorant of your insurance
companies policies.

No need to be confrontational, especially to a newsgroup full of complete
strangers.  We're all here to discuss and help, not to impede and misinform.

--Pete
From: uloren@mcl.ucsb.edu (Loren D. Koss)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: New MLM..
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:42:33 GMT

I have just been introduced to a new FANTASTIC MLM..  It is called Equinox
International and their product line is water filtration, air filtration,
skin care, and health food.  The president knocked the socks off of NSA top
men and they ended up kicking him out, so he started his own.  It is brand
new (only about 6 months) and is working fantastic.  The marketing plan is
well thought out and there is no inventory, which is something that is
important to me.

I wanted to join Mellaleuca awhile back, but didn't like their mandatory $39
purchase/month.

If any of you are interested in more information about Equinox, please send
me mail..

P.S.  I am trying to create a list of all of the mlm's in existance.  If you
know of any please send me mail.  Thanx.

Loren
uloren@mcl.ucsb.edu

Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: black@beach.csulb.edu (Matthew Black)
Subject: multi-level marketing
Organization: Computer Engineering, CSU Long Beach
Distribution: alt.business.multi-level
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:29:18 GMT

The typical method for earning large quantities of money in
the multi-level marketing business is to find other people
to earn it for you.  Granted, these top money earners are
far from lazy, stupid, or innocent.  In fact, they had to 
work very hard to find other people with the same ambitions
who would do THEIR work.  One doesn't get rich selling Amway
or NuSkin directly to end users; you only get wealthy by
selling to other distributors and then leaching, I mean earning
a commission, from the people you brought into the business.

Like the popular $1000 pyramid parties from the 70s and 80s,
you had to find someone else willing to put up $1000.  Eventually,
there's nobody at the bottom with $1000.  In Amway and other MLM,
there are plenty of people willing to work for you.  But honestly,
can you tell me that my neighborhood isn't already saturated with
Amway salespeople?

Just had to add my $.04
********************************************************************************
Matthew Black                             *    The opionions expressed are mine.
Computer Engineering & Computer Science   *    No warranty whatsoever whether
California State University               *    express or implied is hereby
Long Beach, CA  90840                     *    conveyed.
From: reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Amway
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:40:39
Organization: Systar Technologies, Inc.
	<REB.92Jul18110301@punch.EBay.Sun.COM> <5eaghrn@Unify.Com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: punch.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: jde@Unify.com's message of 20 Jul 92 14:37:54 GMT

>>>>> jde@Unify.com (Jeff Evarts) writes:

jeff> You are absoultely correct, but as I understand it, this is beside the
jeff> point. If Amway were to make sales directly, as well as through it`s
jeff> distributors, wouldn`t this just defeat the whole purpose? I mean, if
jeff> you set up this deal to attract distributors, and then set up ways to
jeff> get around them, what was the point?

I recently spent some time with a couple that just came back from
their DD trip in Ada. Rich Devos, they said, dealt specifically with
that issue.  Apparently, Avon recently began to market it's products
directly, in competition with Avon distributors. Many distributors
were up in arms. Devos made it a point to state that they would never
open distribution channels which would circumvent distributors---
their only customers are and will continue to be distributors.



--
--Bob
Systar Technologies, Inc.		   Sun: robert.brown@EBay.Sun.COM
1712 Picasso Avenue, #B & #C            Office: reb@systar.com
Davis, California  95616		 Phone: (916) 753 - 2611
From: reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Car Insurance Consequences of Joining AMWAY
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:20:22
Organization: Systar Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: punch.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: Carl.M.Jones@cm.cf.ac.uk's message of 27 Jul 92 11:50:13 GMT



>>>>> Carl.M.Jones@cm.cf.ac.uk (Carl Jones) writes:

carl> I have been approached to become an AMWAY distributor.  I
carl> declined for two reasons;

carl> 1.  the products I tried were useless, and I wouldn't tell
carl> friends of mine otherwise; and

Shucks, the products I use are GREAT!! I have retail customers and
distributors who swear by them. Amway has around 400 of it's own
products, how many did you try? Which ones? What do you mean useless?
Then, (at least in the US), Amway has made available thousands of
products from other manufacturers (many in the fortune 500)--

carl> 2. my fiancee (who works for an insurance company) pointed out
carl> that I would have to change my car insurance because of the
carl> nature of business that the car was being used for.

Some insurance companies do make a stink about that-- maybe you could
look into some others. If delivery and selling is the only challenge,
maybe you could have the products drop shipped to the customer and not
deliver them personally.

carl> In the UK, social and domestic use is class one, delivery is
carl> class two and selling is class three. AMWAY would be a certain
carl> two, and probably a three.  This would have a large financial
carl> cost, more than the 60 pounds stirling AMWAY fee.

Sure, but what would be the cost to start your own business otherwise.

carl> I was wondering how many other AMWAY distributors have
carl> considered this, and how many were told this by their sponsor?

For the most part, I thought that the challenges you presented were
trivial compared to the amount of money I do and can make as a
distributor. My sponsor did not make a point to say "Oh, BTW, your
insurance rates may go up and there are other expenses you should
consider and not every body you sponsor will stay in and there are
people out there who will really think you're weird and when you get
really rich and buy a nice house, you'll have to pay the taxes on
it....". 

carl> I will assume that no reply means that this subject is taboo.

Not taboo at all, this newsgroup is here to discuss any and all issues.
It shouldn't be taboo to any Amway distributor, after all-- honesty and
openess is the only way to sponsor really sharp people with integrity.

--
--Bob
Systar Technologies, Inc.		   Sun: robert.brown@EBay.Sun.COM
1712 Picasso Avenue, #B & #C            Office: reb@systar.com
Davis, California  95616		 Phone: (916) 753 - 2611
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Amway business software???
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 13:15:44 GMT

tvern.esae@xerox.com (tom vernier) writes:

>Anyone know of any shareware for running an amway business?? or perhaps
>some already done spreadsheets?? My brother just got involved with the
>amway program and is looking for the above. any pointers/leads are app-
>reciated.
>
>tom

I saw some on one of the Compuserve forums.  I forgot the name of the
forum, but the comments field stated the software was $90.  I didn't
download it because I didn't want to get billed automatically (I'm not
sure whether or not this is the case). Anyway, look there.

Chris
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Car Insurance Consequences of Joining AMWAY
Keywords: insurance groups, AMWAY, delivery, selling, honesty
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:52:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article pete@ctdslc.aero.org (Pete Thomas) writes:

>There are no "taboo" subjects in an alt group.  :-).
>
>In my case I make no reply because I am ignorant of your insurance
>companies policies.
>
>No need to be confrontational, especially to a newsgroup full of complete
>strangers.  We're all here to discuss and help, not to impede and misinform.

Agreed, if I understand what Pete is saying.

With regards to the original posting, the aspect of auto insurance as
mentioned is no doubt specific to England.  We don't really see that here
in the U.S.

Jon

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
From: Carl.M.Jones@cm.cf.ac.uk (Carl Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Car Insurance Consequences of Joining AMWAY
Summary: becoming a distributor raises car insurance
Keywords: insurance groups, AMWAY, delivery, selling, honesty
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, Wales, UK.
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

I have been approached to become an AMWAY distributor.  I declined for
two reasons;

1.  the products I tried were useless, and I wouldn't tell friends of mine
otherwise; and

2. my fiancee (who works for an insurance company) pointed out that
I would have to change my car insurance because of the nature of business
that the car was being used for.  

In the UK, social and domestic use is
class one, delivery is class two and selling is class  three. AMWAY
would be a certain two, and probably a three.  This would have
a large financial cost, more than the 60 pounds stirling AMWAY fee.

I was wondering how many other AMWAY distributors have considered this,
and how many were told this by their sponsor?

I will assume that no reply means that this subject is taboo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Jones

Department of Computing Mathematics,	|Tel: +44-222 	874000
University Of Wales College Of Cardiff,	|Fax: +44-222	666182
PO Box 916,				|e-mail:
Cardiff CF2 4YN,			|Carl.M.Jones@uk.ac.cf.cm (JANET UK)
Wales,UK.				|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: monsoor@nextnet.csus.edu (Matt Monsoor)
Subject: Re: Amway business software???
Keywords: MLM software
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Distribution: USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:49:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.184136.19641@vine.cp10.es.xerox.com> tvern.esae@xerox.com writes:
>Anyone know of any shareware for running an amway business?? or perhaps
>some already done spreadsheets?? My brother just got involved with the 
>amway program and is looking for the above. any pointers/leads are app-
>reciated.
>
>tom
>

 Yes there is a program called Domino-CED that is for all MLM's.  It has an
editor, phonebook with dialer, inventory manager, ect.  I am not sure if I am
allowed to Post the Demo copy here but I do have permission from Domino to
provide Demo Copies.  If you are interested in a copy please E-mail me and I
will mail you one.  It is for 286, 386 IBM PC's and compatables only, state
if you want 5.25 or 3.5 disk's.  I use it in my MLM business and it has helped
keep track of my clients.

Side note:  In my MLM business I am rewarded every day with calls from my
clients who have found better health by using our products.  I have received
reports of lower blood pressure and lower Cholesterol results from my clients
after their Dr. appointments.  I have also received reports that Dr.'s have cut
clients daily insulin amounts by as much as half!  One of my clients was told
by her Dr. that she would always be overweight and to get used to it (because 
she has been all her life) now she has lost over 105 pounds, 90 inches from 
her body (10 dress sizes) and can now eat all the type of foods that used to
to cause her distress when she would eat them, this has all happend since only
last January (92)!  Needless to say she is now one of my downline's and both
my wife and I feel good when she tells us the for the first time in her life 
she can go to a normal clothing store and find a rack with sizes that are too
large for her..

What I am trying to say is that most all MLM's have rewards that are not just
monetary and when you can find an MLM that provides you both, it feels GREAT!
If all I had was this job I would get a nice retirment, yes, but I would not
have been given the opportunity to make such a differance in another human
life.  Through MLM's I am also not limited, even though my education is very
incomplete.


-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    Matthew G. Monsoor    |    UUPC:     {ucdavis|lll-crg}!csusac!monsoor    |
|      (916) 278-6288      |    Internet:  monsoor@.csus.edu                  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: walrus@bessel.umd.edu (Grig Larson)
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Oobie
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:33:59 GMT
Organization: Punkadyne Industries(tm)

Oobie! I had one of those as a kid! You squeeze the rubber doll and the
eyes and ears bug out! Those were so cool.... :)
 
But seriously, what have people had with oobes? I tried astral projection
once, and according to the book I read, I remembered everything as much
as I could so I could see if it was real.
 
I went back to the room after I woke up, and I was very wrong. I was only
dreaming. That sort of sucked the wind out of it for me.
 
Has anyone tried a method that works well?
 


=================<<< <  <   < *Punk Walrus* >   >  > >>>=================
[  \||/  |       ---------------------------------------       |  \||/  ]
[  (o-)  | "It might be in the     ||  walrus@bessel.umd.edu   |  (o-)  ]
[   /\   |  basement, I'll go up-  ||  Punk Walrus on the      |   /\   ]
[ Punkus |  stairs and check..."   ||  FanTek BBS 301-203-9582 | It's   ]
[ Walrus |       -- M.C. Escher -- ||  SF&F Author Extrordinare| Punkie!]
=========================================================================
  These opinions are not mine, but those of a rebellious spellchecker...  

Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: dan@willie.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Daniel Dickson)
Subject: test
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:10:11 GMT


	This is a test.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:46:33 EDT
From: <LXS117@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: OOBE from drugs?

I was under a lot of stress and my doctor prescribed
Ativan, which is a tranquilizer that supposedly
has few side effects.  A few nights after I started
taking these pills, I went to bed, and as I was
laying there I began to have a very strange feeling.
I felt as though I was no longer contained within my body,
and that if I wanted to, I could detach from it
completely and go away...I don't know where!

SO...was this experience--and the other similar ones that
followed--a function of my medication, or did the pills
only serve to relax me enough to enable such an experience
to truly happen?
                                    Just Curious.....
                                    Lizabeth at PSU
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: eiverson@nmsu.edu (Eric Iverson)
Subject: OOBE
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:50:18 GMT


After Kennedy was shot my mother had an out of Bobby experience.  I
wonder if Dylan would have triggered a similar reaction.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Iverson				Internet: eiverson@nmsu.edu
Computing Research Lab
Box 30001/3CRL				Life is something to do when
New Mexico State University		you can't get to sleep.
Las Cruces, NM 88003-0001			-Fran Lebowitz
VOICE: (505) 646-5711	
FAX:   (505) 646-6218
Organization: Doctoral student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA