HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: azran@leland.Stanford.EDU (Azran Osman Rani)
Subject: Re: The ecosystem and the malays
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 19:42:19 GMT

In article <92102.230031MFA109@psuvm.psu.edu> <MFA109@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>netters,
>i am not trying to put the blame on some other party but i do believe that
>the logging problem in malaysia can be solved by the buyers of the lumber
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>itself.
^^^^^^^
>the western countries and some advanced asian countries are the major buyers
>of our lumber but they  are the same people who are condeming malaysia for
>cutting down our rain forest. sure we have to be protective of our forests
>and we should monitor our logging. i totally agree with that. but when the
>demand is outrageous, can we blame the gov. for taking the opportunity to
>make a fast buck.
>
>the advanced countries should try to curb their demand for lumber. it is all
>basic micreconomics. countries like japan who buys a lot of our lumber still
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???

>refuse to use plastic chopsticks and continue to use wood. even thailand is
>buying our lumber now.
>
>organizations such as GATT or G7 should do something if they want to preserve
>'our' forest. we sure won't. we need the income.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why not? This is an example of what I have been talking about - energy
wasted to point the blaming finger on someone else. If the deforestation
crisis is to be solved, this unproductive finger pointing must be stop.
Instead, concentrate on global concerted efforts by everyone to help solve
the problem. Sure, the demand side of the equation is one aspect that needs
to be tackled, but equally important is the supply side. Admittedly, the
hypocrisy of developed countries condemning tropical countries for
deforestation, yet purchasing its timber products, is pretty sleazy. But
if we just blame them and expect those slimeballs to solve the problem,
we're not going to get anywhere. Its not our problem, Its not their
problem. Its everyone's problem....and its going to remain a problem until
people start to accept responsibility and do something positive about
solving it.

>
>-firdaus azharuddin-
>petronas maju jaya....
>kebanggaan negara kita....

I'm not too big on being proud of fossil fuel industries......

>come on sing with me.
>


Azran Osman-Rani
Stanford M.I.A. Group
(Molly In Action, lah!)
From: fajack@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Zam Again!
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:32:11 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


> Thank goodness most Malaysians are not racists like Zam.  You do not
> deserve to be representing your country in the U.S.A.  You represent
> it rather poorly.  It seems that most Malaysians on the net would
> rather not have you back and I don't blame them.  With your attitudes,
> I'm glad you're not an American.  I'd be ashamed.
> 
	I am sure by now even the Malays are embarrased by his behaivor.
I am even ashamed he is associated with the human race.

> He doesn't limit his racisim to the Chinese.  Just read his .sig.  He
> doesn;t seem to like the 'White man' either.  If that's the case, what
> are you doing here?  This is a White dominated country that happenes
> to be multi-racial.  Everyone is welcome here, execpt bigots like yourself.
>>
	He is a hypocrite in this regard.  He knows his MIT degree will help his
political aspirations tremendously, therefore he is willing to "bend" his
principles for the time being.    

Jack Teh	
> 
> -- 
>  Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
>  (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
>  Go BLUE JAYS  6-0  v. Orioles   Fri (4-3), Sat (8-2) and Sun (3-1)
>  CELEBRATE!!  The Strike is over.  Allez les Canadiens!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: A paradox?
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:46:25 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr9.234009.21417@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>	Definitely.  A Sultan is not a "normal" person and is not
>treated as such by the laws.  Just like a royalty in any other
>countries, a Sultan in Malaysia is considered as above the laws.

But when a sultan disobeys the laws of Malaysia, the very laws that
protect him from prosecution, he is showing his disrespect for
the Malaysian laws, which in turn, implies that he doesn't care
about the laws which protect him in the first place.

>	Of course, he can.  He is a Sultan.  It says in the
>constitution that he is above the law; therefore, how could you punish
>someone who is not subjected to the laws according to the laws
>themselves?

So if he murders, that is still alright, isn't it?  See how the
constitution stinks.

>	Do you know why people like Adolf Hitler exist?  Precisely
>because there is a need to get rid of people like you from the face of
>this earth.

If Adolf had his way, even you will be wiped out of this Earth, and
the whites would rule the world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darmawan  Ludirdja)
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist?????
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:26:44 GMT

eduardo@eng.umd.edu (Eduardo H. Guiraud) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.053519.22366@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> aman@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Amril Aman) writes:
>>
>>Dennis, could you give a 'credible' source that documented the
>>GENOCIDE of chinese people by Indonesian Government ??????
>>Be specific, please !!  Please give us the name of books, newspapers,
>>journal etc. that you used as your source.  ... No TABLOID, OK.... 
>>Also, you might give some information where did the GENOCIDE happen
>>(the name of the place), when did it happen, and how many chinese
>>became the victims ??  I spent most of my life in Indonesia, and
>>you are the first person who told me about the incident (if it really
>>occurs).
>>Personally, I don't believe with your posting.  Nevertheless lets give
>>you a chance for an explanation before concluding that your posting 
>>merely a TRASH.  
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Amril Aman
>>aman@ecn.purdue.edu

>I assume that you were born after G30S-PKI; otherwise, you know what happened
>the days after G30S.  Chinese people were chased and killed because they were
>thought as PKI members, which were just excuse for the "natives and some govt"
>to kill Chinese.

Wwoooooowwww. Were you in Indonesia at that time?????? I was there! I was born!
I never chased anybody and never being chased either. Am I a chinese or a
native??? For sure I'm an Indonesian!!!!! 

>If you are Chinese, why don't you ask your parents what had happened to Chinese
>at that time.

Did you ask your parent? :-) Ooopppss I remember you're not a chinese and 
NOT from Indonesia. Pardon me. 

Darmawan  - an Indonesian student
From: gt6737b@prism.gatech.EDU (JAAFAR,EMERIZAL AHMAD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: MRT in K.L
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:44:59 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Dear friends,
	I'm sure a lot of us know that the MRT project in K.L is currently
undergoing some complicated problems.  Let us disregard that fact for a 
brief moment and proceed discussing the idea.  
	From what I understand, the MRT is supposedly to reduce the traffic
problem due to the ever increasing number of automobiles in K.L and its'
vacinity.  However, is MRT really going to reduce traffic conjestion?
If you live in K.L, you would probably noticed that the people who are
using the busses are mostly the 'little people', people who couldn't
afford to buy a car anyways(asuming that the gov't will still enforce
high tax rate on inported cars).  Thus, I don't really see the rationale
behind the move to have MRT service.  I doubt that a lot of my friends
would rather use the public busses to get around(knowing that some of
them adore european cars!!!)  Would you use MRT and leave your BMW,
Mercedes, Porche, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Rolls Royles, or perhaps lambourghini
at home. Hmmm...most unlikely!
	Another thing abt this type of public transportation is that it's not
profitable.  If Dewan Bandaraya or Federal Gov't, don't mind subsidizing it
no problem then.  Perhaps, somebody with a strong business and commercial
background should back me up.(  Knowing micro&macro economics or even 
monetary and banking is not enough.  I need somebody who has a degree in
business, a PhD would be nice).  A lot of examples where the city's
subway and/or MRT system is facing severe financial problem.  take Atlanta,
Philly, Boston(once before I think) for example.(maybe calgary too?)
	I support PM's call for a better bus systems.  That would be a more
realistic approach.  However, please bear in mind that this is just one
person's opinion.  I'm sure K.L city planners already thought about this
matter and considered it thoroughly(I think!...how can we know...we weren't
involved...we can merely speculate the rationale behind their decisions).
(exchanging ideas...that's about it that we can do...hopefully thru exchanging
these ideas, something good will come out of us...make us more aware of
certain things...that's abt it that we can do...assuming that's what we want 
anyways...at least a lot better than cursing at people etc.) 

Well...one can't know all there is to know in this world....

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
|**EMERIZAL AHMAD JAAFAR, ATLANTA.  HOME OF THE GEORGIA TECH YELLOW JACKETS**|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dctam@eos.ncsu.edu (DENVER CHUAN-HIN TAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Singapore Newsbrief: April 10
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:54:54 GMT
Reply-To: dctam@eos.ncsu.edu (DENVER CHUAN-HIN TAM)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University


>     Does anyone  knows  where  will  it be located?  Geez..  I didn't know
>that Singapore has grown in size since  I  left.  We don't even have enough
>land for ourselves and we are setting up an U.S. base.
>

>+----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
>| Eddie Ng                   |  A day without laughter is a day wasted    |
>| SNG@ENVMSA.EAS.ASU.EDU     |               --  Charles Spencer Chaplin  |
>+----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+

I thought it was just supposed to be a HQ unit rather than a full support 
base....
There's no way that you could squeeze another base into Singapore short of
giving them an island....nah...even they are too small..

Den.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:38:49 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr15.145709.29517@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>	How do you know that the Nov. massacre was aimed at a
>political group?  Those people are mourners, and they are not a part
>of any political entity.  As I see it, it is an action of an overly-
>zealous commander trying to impress the top-brass in his country.

If it is not then explain this;

a) The Indon govt still continue prosecute the East Timorese 
   dissidents.
b) Official statements of the Nov massacre is at best sketchy, at
   worst, grossly incorrect.

>	I support forced assimilation in Indonesia since it has
>produced the best possible result.  Banning the Chinese languages,
>Chinese schools, and etc, has produced the effects that the Indonesian
>government has been searching for. I do not however consider gunning
>down several protestors as a "forced assimiliation".  

They were protesting the forced assimiliation.  FYI, students who
dare to voice against the govt are being tried in courts and if
found guilty, can be executed.

>	Do you get the distinction now?

No, there is no distinction.  The govt used force to assimiliate
the people.  What do you think this force is?  The army, full stop.

A side note:
I do not object to any govts trying to unite the different 
races in their country, but such actions should not be carried
out brutally and forcifully.  Education and incentives should be
instead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz
From: zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist?????
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:45:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr15.214524.19403
Distribution: usa
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr15.210753.12920@cbfsb.cb.att.com> the@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (khe-sing.the) writes:
>
>In article <1992Apr15.173827.24853@eng.umd.edu> eduardo@eng.umd.edu
>(Eduardo H. Guiraud) writes:
>>I assume that you were born after G30S-PKI; otherwise, you know what happened
>>the days after G30S.  Chinese people were chased and killed because they were
>>thought as PKI members, which were just excuse for the "natives and some govt"
>>to kill Chinese.
>
>Please note that the target was PKI members.  Of course there
>were some bad people taking advantage of the chaotic situation
>for personal interest and hatred.  Many innocent Chinese as well
>as native people became victims.  The government policy neither
>included nor implied Chinese genocide.  
>
>>If you are Chinese, why don't you ask your parents what had happened to Chinese
>>at that time.
>
>I was there.  I had quite a few friends and classmates whose
>fathers were missing or presumably killed during that period.
>None of them were Chinese.
>
>--
>Khe-Sing The
>AT&T Bell Laboratories  <the@cbnewsg.att.com>


	Are you related to The Kian-Siang, aka Bob Hasan?  

===------ 
NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
promised to take our land and they took it.
                                                        Red Cloud
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 12:08:41 MST
From: C. K. Ng <ASCKN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Foreign students in U.S.A.

  The following statistics can be found in Time Magazine, 4/13/92
issue, pp 59-60.  It says that of the 3,500 U.S. institutions,
there is a total of 407,530 foreign students who come from 193
different country last year, i.e., 1991.  The top 10 contributing
foreign countries are:
   China         9.7%
   Japan         9.0
   Taiwan        8.2
   India         7.1
   Korea         5.7
   Canada        4.5
   Malaysia      3.3
   Hong Kong     3.1
   Indonesia     2.3
   Pakistan      1.9

  So, we can roughly figure out how many Malaysian students were in
U.S.A. in '91 by simply taking the product of (.033*407,530).

Sincerely,
   Chee-Keong Ng, Ph.D.
   Without fear and partiality
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Asian Development Bank growth projections
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:11:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: hmng@buengf.bu.edu (hockmin ng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: bored beyond belief!!!
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: hmng@buengf.bu.edu (hockmin ng)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asean
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Saudara-saudari sekalian,

     Sebagai rakyat Malaysia, saya mempunyai hak untuk menyuarakan pendapat
saya mengenai isu-isu yang sering dibangkitkan dalam "soc.culture.asean."
Saya berpendapat bahawa terdapat beberapa individu tertentu yang sengaja
menyemarakkan sentimen perkauman dalam perbincangan mereka. 
   Apa yang lebih mengejutkan adalah penggunaan bahasa yang kasar dalam tulisan
yang dipaparkan. Nampaknya tahap pelajaran yang tinggi tidak semestinya 
menjamin akhlak yang baik. Tidaklah perlu saya menyebut nama mereka. Saudara-
saudari tentu sekali tahu siapa yang dimaksudkan.
    Individu seperti yang disebutkan tidak patut dan tidak layak menerima
biasiswa kerajaan. 

H.M. Ng 
-- 
*   *  ****   ****  *  *  Name        : Hock Min Ng 
*   * *    * *      * *   Voice mail  : 617-352 5573
***** *    * *      **    Snail mail  : 277, Babcock St. Box 1879,
*   * *    * *      * *                 Boston MA 02215, USA.
From: the@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (khe-sing.the)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:17:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories


In article <1992Apr16.180606.20470@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Darmawan  Ludirdja) writes:
>
>When did the Indonesian govt use force for assimilation of chinese????
>     once again you'd better shut up.

As a matter of fact,  the only Chinese language newspaper in Indonesia
is supported by the army.

--
Khe-Sing The, Ph.D.
MTS, Computer Aided Design and Test Lab
AT&T Bell Laboratories    <the@cbnewsg.att.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:13:32 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr14.202342.23948@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>>Z :     Could you give any documentation of a genocide committed by
>>the Indonesian government?  I have not come across any of this
>>allegation before, so it is a news item to me.  The so called
>>"cultural genocide" does not count.
>>
>>To Zam and other sceptics who just happened not to read about the
>>November 12 massacre when Indonesian troops coldbloodedly mowed
>>down civilians at a funeral ceremony - I am going to go look up
>>some old East Timor newsbriefs. You want to know about genocide?
>>You got it.
>>
>>A teaser : The population of East Timor in 1975 was 688,000. Today,
>>it is 450,000. Where do you think the rest of them went? And no,
>>the answer is NOT migration. Think guns, torture and detention.
>
>	You don't call the killing of several people as genocide.
>Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>racial, or political group" -- Webster dictionary.  The Holocaust can
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>be classified as genocide, not the death of a few protestors...

Isn't the Nov massacre aimed at a political group?  People who
are attending a funeral are NOT protesting.  They just happen not
to share the same ideas as the Indon govt.

Anyway, Zam, back to my old allegation that you support the Indon 
govt's actions and thus you are a NAZI.  Do you actually support 
the Indon govt's action in the Nov killings?  I quote you, "...if it
(the forced assimiliation -ed.) works, then they should export it to
the rest of the world".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MRT in K.L
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:08:41 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr16.014855.11154@husc3.harvard.edu> tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh) writes:

>1. If all the trains are punctual as in Tokyo, fresh vegetables,fishes,etc
>   will be able to be transported to their destinations without delay
>   without having to worry about traffic congestion. 

My complains of KL has always been the lack of fresh food to be bought
in the market.  Still mush prefered the countryside.

>Disadvantages:
>2. Although it reduces air pollution, it cause major noise pollution to 
>   the areas around the rail. This problem can be overcome by building
>   it underground. The only problem is that it can be extremely expensive.

Noe necessarily.  One look at Singapore's MRT system will tell you that
modern MRT system can be relatively noise free.  

Anothing thing.  The use of superconducting linear electric motors in 
these coaches has reduced the level of noise output.  Also, these motors 
tend to keep the coach to the middle of the track, avoiding the need of 
guiding wheels, which would otherwise be very noisy.  FYI, these coaches
"float" above their track.

>3. New areas for building the rails can also be a problem. It is usually
>   difficult for the people to move or sell their lands where they have
>   stay for generations.

Singapore partially solved this problem by going underground.  Part
of their MRT system (especially those running into the commercial
centre) runs underground.

>5. Experience from Japan shows that MRT alone will not be a very profitable
>   bussiness unless other bussiness such as selling of souvenirs,food,etc
>   are undertaken too. Maybe, we caN have a roti canai or nasi lemak at the MRT
>   station before going to work. Sometime, they even organise special tours.

As I have said in a previous post, sometimes mere profit and loss
cannot be used to justify a public project.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: gewong@mtholyoke.edu (= G e r m a i n =)
Subject: Re: singaporean's "we" dilemma
Keywords: we
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:46:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.203301.22870@natinst.com> fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.201912.8247@leland.Stanford.EDU>, yongwee@leland.Stanford.EDU (Yong Wee Dennis Lee) writes:
>
>> you S'poreans out there :  ARE "WE" S'POREANS PROUD OF OUR COUNTRY, despite all
>> its limitations and policies?  Let me be the first to answer that :"Yes"
>
>Not wanting to sound like cliche, YOU CAN BET ROACH'S BORNY A*S on this, and
>yes is the answer.
>
>-Osbert (RAID)
>-- 


Hmmm... I am not a citizen, but am a PR in Singapore (and I live there, so home
to me is Singapore).

If the question applies to PRs too, I'd answer Yes!   *grin*


-Germain.