HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moe@nuchat.sccsi.com (Norman C. Kluksdahl)
Subject: problem with cb libgrx in djgpp
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:07:34 GMT


Can anyone help with this?
I am compiling some code with the GCC compiler from the djgpp project,
but I keep running into a bug.  This problem is evident on several 
different 386SX, 386, and 486 platforms, so I have discounted a problem
with my specific machine.

I am attempting to use the libgrx library mouse functions; specifically,
I am trying to use the queued keyboard and mouse interrupts, as directed
in the documentation for libgrx.  But, my problem is that even the test
program won't run, and neither will my own sample code.  If anyone can
help with this, I would be greatly appreciative.

****************  code compiled  **********************************

#include <grx.h>
#include <mousex.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

void main()
{
   GrSetMode(GR_width_height_color_graphics,x,y,c);
   mt();
   GrSetMode(GR_default_text);
   exit(0);
}

mt()
{
   MouseEvent evt;
   char ii = 0;
   FILE *fp, *fopen();
   fp = fopen("mt_int.out", "w");

   if(MouseDetect()) 
      {
      MouseEventMode(1);
      MouseInit();
      MouseDisplayCursor();
      MouseEventEnable(1,1);
      MouseSetColors(GrAllocColor(255,0,0),GrBlack());
      GrClearScreen(GrAllocColor(0,0,128));
      while(ii != 'q') 
	 {
	 MouseGetEvent((M_KEYPRESS | M_BUTTON_CHANGE | M_POLL ),&evt);
	 if(evt.flags & M_KEYPRESS) 
	    {
	    fprintf(fp,"key pressed = %c\n",evt.key);
	    ii = evt.key;
	    }
	 if(evt.flags & M_BUTTON_CHANGE)
	    {
	    if(evt.flags & M_LEFT_DOWN)
	       fprintf(fp,"left button down at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    if(evt.flags & M_LEFT_UP)
	       fprintf(fp,"left button up at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    if(evt.flags & M_MIDDLE_DOWN)
	       fprintf(fp,"middle button down at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    if(evt.flags & M_MIDDLE_UP)
	       fprintf(fp,"middle button up at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    if(evt.flags & M_RIGHT_DOWN)
	       fprintf(fp,"right button down at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    if(evt.flags & M_RIGHT_UP)
	       fprintf(fp,"right button up at %d %d\n",evt.x, evt.y);
	    }
	 }
      MouseUnInit();
   }
}

**********************  end of code  *************************

Thanks in advance for any help which can be provided.

=====================================================================
Norman Kluksdahl  
  moe@nuchat.sccsi.com
From: cullen@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: United States Part Sources?
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:11:34 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I'm feeling the urge to upgrade, and I've decided to build.

So, what I'm  looking for is good sources and recommendations
for 
1- Upgradeable 486 Motherboard
2- Cases with PS
3- IDE drive controllers
4- Currently 486-25SX CPU (May change)

I'm looking for these in the US, as local prices seem to be way out of
line here in Nova Scotia.

Email or post, either is fine. 
					Mur
					Cullen@ug.cs.dal.ca
					Cullen@ac.dal.ca
From: vaughn@nashua4.East.Sun.COM (Vaughn Rogers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Western Digital 7000 SCSI board
Date: 5 Jan 1993 18:12:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: vaughn@nashua4.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nashua4.east.sun.com
Keywords: scsi, western digital, 7000

Sorry about wasting the band-width, but the board is the Western Digital 7000 SCSI board instead of 700.

Thanks

From vaughn@nashua4.East.Sun.COM (Vaughn Rogers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Western Digital 700 SCSI board
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:00:53 GMT

I'm thinking about buying this board for my 386/33. I'm looking for info on this board, ie: speed, compatiablity, drivers and any general comments! Also, does Western Digital have a BBS?

Thanks
Vaughn Rogers
vroger@sun.com
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: no game port on Gateway 2k systems?
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:19:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.93Jan6101905
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

I've been waiting for some one to post the correct answer, but alas,
no one has yet, so I will.  Older G2000 systems had a card that served
as disk controller, serial I/O, PIO and game port.  The new VLB system
has the disk controller. SIO and PIO built into the motherboard.
SInce the only other card in the system is the ATI, which certainly
doesn't have a game port, the system doesn't have a game port.  [Note:
I do not have one, but I do know how to read and think.]

--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | There never did, there never will, and
Field Robotics Center,          | there never can exist a parliment, or any
Carnegie Mellon University      | description of men, or any generation of
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | men, in any country, possessed of the right
(412) 268-3856                  | or the power of binding and controlling
                                | posterity to the `end of time,' or of
The opinions expressed are mine | commanding for ever how the world shall be
and do not reflect the official | governed, or who shall govern it...
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | -Every age and generation must be as free
or any other organization.      | to act for itself, in all cases, as the
                                | ages and generations which preceeded it.
                                | Thomas Paine
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: psm@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Phil Malin)
Subject: Info on 386slc
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:09:09 GMT

Hi all.

I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me about the 386slc chip brought
out by IBM.  From what I've heard it's supposed to be pin compatible with
the 386sx and includes onboard cache (~2K), instruction optimisation, etc.
I have a 16MHz 386sx and would like to know if it's possible to rip the
386sx chip out and plug this baby in.  I also have a coprocessor (although I
don't see what difference this should make, just thought I'd mention it).
Is this possible?  Is it as simple as this?

Thanks for any help.

Phil Malin.
psm@murlibobo.ee.mu.oz.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: William_Ng@mindlink.bc.ca (William Ng)
Subject: star SG-10 settings
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:38:08 GMT

I have a Star SG10 and I leave all the DIP switches in GROUP 1 (first 8) up.
On the Second Group, I only have #1 up, leaving the rest down.  I was using
it with a Tandy 1000A.  Unfortunately, I don't have the manual anymore.  It
worked fine for me on those settings.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: ssivakum@ptdcs2.intel.com (Sam Sivakumar)
Subject: FAQ wanted
Organization: Intel Corporation -- Aloha, Oregon
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:29:56 GMT

Hi folks,
	 	I would like a copy of the FAQ list for this group.  Can 
someone send me a copy or point me to an ftp site that has it?
	Thanks!


-- 
Sam Sivakumar		    |  Intel's very own lithography dude, 
ssivakum@ptdcs5.intel.com   |  Speakin' for himself, that's for sure!
PTD, Aloha, OR              |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: bruceh@cray.com (Bruce T. Hill)
Subject: Need help fixing AST 386SX
Summary: free and dead
Keywords: AST386
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:55:04 GMT


I was recently given an AST 386SX/16 that is broken and I need
suggestions on getting it repaired.  My brother-in-law, who is
not at all technical with computers, said that he had taken it somewhere
to be looked at and that the diagnosis was "the mother-board is broken".
What specific problem that encompasses I don't know.

The AST has its processor on a peripheral card that plugs into both the
AT-bus and another type of bus.  I believe that this is a "feature"
to allow users to easily upgrade the processor.  Does anyone know
if this card is what the repairman would refer to as the "motherboard" 
or does he mean the large board that contains the bus slots and built-in
disk controllers?  Any guesses as to how much a replacement AST386sx 
card (or better) costs these days?

The computer is also lacking any floppy disk drives and the monitor was
kept by the former owner.  I had someone here at work take a quick look
at the machine and we put a monitor and card into it to see
how far it gets during power up.  It successfully checks memory (1M) and
then it prints out: 
 
INSTALLING SYSTEM BIOS IN SHADOW RAM
 
and just sits there.  It never accesses the hard drive or the floppy that
we plugged in.  Anybody want to guess what is giving it problems?
We tried all the permutations of slots and cards and no difference.

If anyone can suggest a fix, diagnosis, or let me know if there is any
hope of this thing being resurrected, let me know.  Otherwise, I may
just part it out for pieces.  If I can get this thing to work I will be
in the market for a color monitor and controller card, and a floppy disk
drive or two.

This computer also came with no documentation.  If anyone has a copy
and would like to FAX me it, I would be eternally grateful.

Patiently wondering....

-- 
Bruce T. Hill @ Cray Research Superservers, Inc., San Diego, CA, USA
Email: bruceh@cray.com  Phone: (619) 625-3746  FAX: (619) 625-0641
Humorous quotation:  Nobody looks good wearing _brown_lipstick_. --Frank Zappa
From: bl961@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William R Super)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: 1X3 Sim Memory
Date: 6 Jan 1993 00:17:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I bought a new motherboard yesterday and I noticed that The Sim's
were 1X3.  Since I was not familiar with that configuration and
they had no 1X9's I passed on the memory untill I could get more
information.  Does anyone out there have any experience eith the
1X3's ?

Bill Super    bl961@cleveland.freenet.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:35689 comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:16605
From: jdoll@cup.portal.com (Joe - Doll)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Catalog of Hard-to-Find PC Enhancements (Repost)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:51:30 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

"The Catalog of Personal Computing Tools for Engineers and Scien-
tists" lists hardware cards and application software packages for 
PC/XT/AT/PS/2 class machines.  Focus is on engineering and scien-
tific applications of PCs, such as data acquisition/control, 
design automation, and data analysis and presentation.  
  
If you would like a free copy, reply with your (U. S. Postal) 
mailing address.
From: cliffp@informix.com (Clifford Porter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Sources for VLB boards?
Keywords: VESA 486
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:58:18 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

drkszk@ocf.berkeley.edu (Derek Suzuki) writes:


>	Where can I get good prices on 486-33(/66) VLB motherboards
>with and without CPU?  What sort of memory expansion options are
>available.  I have 9 bit SIMMS, but might be willing to switch to 36 bit.
>	Also, how much are VLB versions of the ATI Ultra Pro and the new
>S3 boards?

>Derek Suzuki
>drkszk@ocf.berkeley.edu

I purchased a AIR VLB from umircle in fremont, ca. Cost $236 no cpu
256k cache, also got an orchid VLB S3(805) Video Card for $165. 
MB uses 9 bit simms and supports 32 megs on board and there is an propritory
expandsion slot to add another 32 megs. Dealer said he could get an 
ATI Ultra Pro for about $400.  The Orchid card is faster (and cheaper) 
from the mag benchmarks I've seen. I saw it running window and couldn't
resist it's speed. Now all I need is X11 and OS/2 drivers.

Be carefull about VLB motherboards, the first one I purchased would not
run UNIX, It ran DOS and OS/2 fine. It had a USA chipset and was made 
in the USA.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Hard Drive Partitioning
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:30:22 GMT
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu




I have a phoenix bios that reads at max a 32 meg hard drive.
I have a 42 meg drive.

Now,can I set my bios to read a 32 and a 10 meg drive
out of the same dirve?
How would I do this,how does the computer know not to format
over the 32 meg section with the 10 meg?
Is this all on one card?
WOuld I have 2 drives C and D?
Please leave mail.
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Adaptec SCSI controllers query
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:51:27 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <C0Jv8C.3t7@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> darrylo@sr.hp.com writes:
>produce (hence, more profits).  I've heard that a 1542C is in the works,
>but I haven't heard much about it.

I've heard that Adaptec is working on a SCSI card with jumperless
configuration capability.  Maybe that's the 1542C?


-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: noisy fan...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:39:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan06.074530.1369@skynet.uucp> ice@skynet.uucp (Ice) writes:

>Don't be afraid to open the power supply. It is a big joke what those stickers
>say. Once you get started, you'll wonder why you waited so long to fix this
>really simple problem.

Be careful here. 1) don't just switch it off. Pull out the power cord
or disconnect it from the wall. 2) Be aware that there are huge capaci-
tors in there that can cause you quite a bit of grief.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 16:43:52 MST
From: S.Visveshwara <ICVXV@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject:    RLL & MFM

Hi,
  I would like some information regarding the difference between the above.
From: probert@fires1.uucp (Neal Probert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: MSCDEX needed for PC with Adaptec AHA-1542 and NEC CDR-84
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:40:09 GMT
Organization: Scientific Research Labs, Ford Motor Company
Distribution: na
Reply-To: probert@fires1.srl.ford.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: fires1.srl.ford.com

I have a PC with an Adaptec AHA-1542 SCSI controller and I have 2 disk drives,
a tape drive, and the NEC CDR-84 CD-ROM drive.  I need an MSCDEX.EXE that
works with the Adaptec's controller and software to make my CD-ROM go.

Thanks.

-- 
    FORD       | Neal W. Probert   E3154 SRL    | probert@fires1.srl.ford.com
 SCIENTIFIC    | Ford Scientific Research Labs  | 313-845-8178 FAX 313-845-8202
RESEARCH LABS  | Dearborn, MI 48121-2053        | 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: jt@fuw.edu.pl (Jerzy Tarasiuk)
Subject: Re: What's the deal? My chip says "SX-25"; Norton says "SX-33"
Organization: Warsaw University Physics Dept.
	<1993Jan5.152504.9786@bmers95.bnr.ca>
	<1icegqINN7vl@savoy.cc.williams.edu>
	<1993Jan5.190434.12413@bmers95.bnr.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:27:33 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:04:34 GMT, khor@bnr.ca (Kyle Hor) said:
Kyle> In article <1icegqINN7vl@savoy.cc.williams.edu>, 93gke@williams.edu (oldwanda) writes:
Kyle> |> If this is true, then how can vendors push the 25Mhz chips to 33Mhz?
Kyle> |> Wouldn't they fail at the higher speeds since they were slow in
Kyle> |> testing?
Kyle> |> 
Kyle>  
Kyle> 1st there is a guard band.  I.e. a 25MHz grade are usually tested to pass
Kyle>  
Kyle> 2nd, there are numerous test on different parts of the chips switching
Kyle> speed.  Again, not knowing the 486 intimately, let's assume there are
Kyle> 100 such tests.  Maybe 99 of them meet the 33MHz grade but one of them
Kyle>  
Kyle> 3rd, semiconductors are sensitive to temperature.  The chip is
Kyle>  
Kyle> Finally, if Intel has a huge order of 25MHz and have a huge stock of
Kyle> 33MHz, they would simply re-mark the chips as 25MHz and ship it.  This

In this case why Intel doesn't sell 33MHz CPUs at 25MHz's price ?
(for the vendor who gets larger amount of them only, of course)

But I can say also 2 reasons for which 25MHz chip can work at 33:
1st, a reason to say 33MHz is too much for it may be heating - higher
  clock rate means more heat and it may destroy chip at full speed
  and maximum ambient temperature simultaneously; but a vendor can
  add heatsink to it or give good cooling to prevent destroying.
2nd, and seems no one said it: test is done at some output load
  (a capacitance connected to every pin), and a chip can be to slow
  with this load (for example, the output current from it is not
  sufficient to load the capacitance in required time); but a vendor
  can put chip on board where capacitances are less than those used
  by Intel's test (the capacitances also affect chip heating).
Anyway, to make sure computer made this way is reliable must measure
a lot of parameters or consult Intel to know e.g. reducing load
capacitances by 40% or reducing ambient temperature by 35 degrees
allows to use 25MHz chip at 33MHz. But the only reason for vendors
to do it is honesty. Or, more precisely, might be honesty if there
were honest businessmans (but I don't know about any).
Jerzy Tarasiuk
"Cannot serve to two masters - God and money - simultaneously."
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: 486 Computer for sale!
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:15:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.93Jan12101538
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

In article <1993Jan11.105506.789@ab.wvnet.edu> shomo@ab.wvnet.edu writes:

   I have a IBM Compatible i486DX2-50MHz Computer forsale
[details deleted]

   This computer was just built for resale.  Under warrantee.
	   $2700.

A vastly superior system (say a G2000 66VLB) can be purchased for only
$300 more, i.e., this system is outrageously over-priced!



--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The fabric of the American empire ought to
Field Robotics Center,          | rest on the solid basis of THE CONSENT OF THE
Carnegie Mellon University      | PEOPLE.  The streams of national power ought
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | to flow immediately from that pure, original
(412) 268-3856                  | fountain of all legitimate authority.
                                | Alexander Hamilton
The opinions expressed are mine | 
and do not reflect the official | 
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
or any other organization.      |
From: DonH@cup.portal.com (Don - Hirschfeld)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Quantum SCSI HD Terminators
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 05:54:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

You are right. Those little pull out things are the terminators.
From: manaster@yu1.yu.edu (Chaim Manaster)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: SCSI compatibility on EISA: Recommendations.
Date: 5 Jan 93 04:20:31 GMT
Organization: School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, UCLA


Does that mean that in DOS there is no problem at all? Does the
problem with the 174X boards only manifest in UNIX?
-- 
***************************************************************************
	Henry Manaster          *     EMail: manaster@yu1.yu.edu
	Brooklyn, NY            *
                                *
	Disclaimer: The above is not necessarily MY opinion nor that 
				of anyone else :-)  ????!
****************************************************************************
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: feg@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (forrest.e.gehrke)
Subject: Re: CMS JUMB0303.ZIP
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:26:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.200059.1@happy.colorado.edu> srheintze@happy.colorado.edu writes:
>In article <RAM.93Jan11172345@claude.cs.umb.edu>, ram@cs.umb.edu (Robert Morris) writes:
>> Recently I downloaded JUMBO303.ZIP to try with my CMS 250 tape drive.
>> When I installed it and tried to run it, it complained "language file
>> not found" and refused to run.  Is this something which I get from my
>> windows disks, or should it have unzipped, or what?
>> 

You did not properly install the software.  Follow their directions.
There is an ascii file that is expanded which the software requires
to read your options.  If not present you get that complaint.

>Where do I get JUMBO303.ZIP?  Is this the latest?  Is it a windows program?
>Is there a windows version?
>

This is the latest CMS software and it can run under windows.
Obtainable from the listservers of SIMTEL20 or directly from
the CMS BBS.

Forrest Gehrke feg@dodger.att.com

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
Subject: Re: Gateway vs. Austin questions
Organization: not much...
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:40:18 GMT

> Notice that it was the Ultra that got the Editor's Choice, not the
> Ultra Pro.  They felt that the Ultra Pro was not that much better
> (and worse in some respects but I'd chalk that up to early versions
> with bad drivers), and certainly the Pro is NOT worth the extra
> cost. (the thing lists for $799!!!)

Nobody is talking about buying it.  It is packaged with the Gateway system,
and thus effectively free.  It's also blindingly fast.

> they will NOT lower their price!  The guy I used to deal
> with would cave in with free shipping without me even trying! 

What planet did you grow up on?  Gateway's prices are already better, for
better-equipped systems, than the competition; they are selling so many that
they can't keep up with the demand; and their systems have gotten top awards
from all the major PC mags.  What possible motive could they have for haggling
on their prices?  My salesman was courteous, helpful, and remarkably
responsive, but I'm sure that he'd have lost about 2 nanoseconds of sleep if
I'd told him I was going to order from someone else unless he gave me free
shipping.  "Sure, if you want to pay $200-1000 more for an equivalent system,
be my guest," he might have thought as he called back the next person who was
dying to get a Gateway system.

I am delighted with my DX33V, and the 3 weeks was worth the wait.  Their 66DX2
has been rated as the fastest PC on the planet, but if you want to go with
second best for more money because Gateway won't make a good deal even better,
hey, go ahead.

I asked my salesman if they'd negotiate on a large (10+ system) order, and he
said for that he could go to his manager and ask, but they have *no* incentive
to negotiate on a single-system purchase from a private individual, and you're
cutting off your nose to spite your face unless you can get a better price for
as good a system elsewhere.  I'm betting you can't, but more power to you if
you can...
Xref: sparky comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:35120 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:752