From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:16:21 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Oct2.161411.29772@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes,    quoting me:
>|> I'm basing the electromagnetic nature of the second body primarily on the
>|> Kirlian aura experiments. The Kirlian Aura is an electromagnetic field, and
>|> [...]
>|> occult law states that the Kirlian Aura is a by-product of the body, and that
>|> the subtle bodies also have their own respective fields, of which they are
>"Hearsay occult law" to the contrary, Kirilian effects are electromagnetic
>effects of the FIRST body.  The physical body is well known to have many
>electirical properties, WHAICH CAN BE MEASURED.  (The stories you recall 
>of 'mystics' affecting compasses reflect simple and well-known stage 
>magician trick, and have nothing at all to do with Kirilian effects.)
>
>It doesn't matter how high the frequency might be, radios or other gear 
>would be able to detect it, which never happens.

It cannot be denied that if the second body were electromagnetic, and the
amplitude of the wave/s comprising it extremely low, it may be undetectable
given our instrumentation. All things concerned, however, I have no real
data with which to argue against you. In fact, I'm not sure that I think
that the second body *is* electromagnetic. I just have no basis from which
to deny the possibility (including Susan Blackmore, who, in an interview
which I saw, admitted that she had never got any positive result  in any
paranormal experiment whatsoever, which to my fanciful mind suggests a
suppressor.)

>|> standing waves. Therefore, all matter is made up of electromagnetic waves
>|> as it is, and so the suggestion that any of the subtle bodies is not
>|> electromagnetic becomes odd.
>Yes, but all matter and energy is DETECTABLE by instruments.  The "second
>body" has never been detected by any electromagnetic instrument.  Hence,
>the "second body" cannot be ordinary physical matter or energy.  The "first
>body" is made up of ordinary matter, but the "second body" cannot be.

As above, I can't help but wonder as to instrument sensitivity used in these
tests. Another thought occurs - the subtle bodies all operate in levels of
existance appropriate to the individual body, not directly on the physical,
but on analogues thereof. The first plane up, the etheric, is very nearly
identical to the prime material, which is why OOBEs appear to be in the
real world. That would mean that the movement of a subtle body would have 
no discernable effect, because the material which comprises the etheric also
comprises the etheric body. To detect the movement of the body through
electromagnetic interference would be like trying to spot someone move from
New York to Los Angeles by looking for deflections in the Earth's orbit.
 

>(I admit I used the word 'DECICIVELY' to stir debate, but I believe my 
>statement is defensible.)
There's nothing wrong with stirring some debate up. I accept that there is
unlikely to be any evidence for an electromagnetic second body, but I also
accept that there is a reasonable possibility that it may be the case.

Tim.

--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
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Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe