From: oberland@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: A&A - I think I found it!!!!
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:42:18 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <0f=EVYe00Vp3IEI0Zd@andrew.cmu.edu>, Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> oberland@vax.sonoma.edu , Joe writes:
> 
>>BAD play?  I have SHOWN that they have a bad choice to make.  Attack vs
>>defense.  IF they think that I will attack, then they buy defense.  The
> reverse
>>holds true.  My plan is to do the OPPOSITE of wehat they prepare for, thereby
>>forcing them into a worst-case battle.
>>They build i, I spread out and force them to go on the offensive,
> without extra
>>tanks.
>>They build a, I kill Karelia
> 
> OK, I have said many times what they do:
> They build 8 inf in Karelia, put only 1 inf in the Caucuses.  They have
> 19 inf, 3 tanks, 2 fighters in Karelia, 1 tank in Russia.  Please tell
> me what you build, and what you put where to make it so hard on them. 
> You will not tell me, I do not know why.

It depends.  If I attack Karelia or Defend.  3a and 2f attacking would not
be very effective.
You had BETTER take out Caucasus if I go defensive.  The Japanese will
GLADLY prop me up and take out Russia.
IF you can't take Caucasus back, you now have to build at least 2i in Russia,
which dooms Karelia.
 
>>****THEY MOVE _BEFORE_ I DO****
>>How in the hell are they going to read my mind and know if I will be defensive
>>or offensive?
>>
>>The last game I played, and most I have played, they have left 2i or built
>>an armor and had 18i in Karelia(the best option to counter my plans).
>>The result, no matter what they do, is that they are toast by turn two.
> 
> I disagree.  I build 8 inf.  What does Germany do.

Coming up.
 
>>Guess they are going to tanke me over with infantry?  WHat if I go defensive?
>>3a and 2f is crap to attack with, and the 3a are dead on my counter-attacks.
>>Hm.. 2f for turn 3.  Not good.
>>
>>Even IF I attack the 19i plan, they are left with too little to even take
>>ukraine or caucasus back, unless UK takes Caucasus at heavy losses)
>>-will explain later-
> 
> If you attack with less than the maximum available you are likely
> getting destroyed.  What do you have in the Ukraine and the Caucaus?

I simply revert to my original plan, which is VERY nasty.
 
>>This depends if I send 2i OR 1a in(I CAN do either!)
>>IF I do my first plan, there is too much to even bother with.
>>TAKING Caucasus is a bonus, but not necessarry.  I am ONLY interested in
>>kitting them HARRRRD for 3 turns, possibly 4 , and letting Japan coast in.
>>If I fry myself on them, that is acceptable.  I can do so much attrition that
>>UK and US have to waste resources propping up Russia.
> 
>>This depends if I send 2i OR 1a in(I CAN do either!)
>>IF I do my first plan, there is too much to even bother with.
>>TAKING Caucasus is a bonus, but not necessarry.  I am ONLY interested in
>>kitting them HARRRRD for 3 turns, possibly 4 , and letting Japan coast in.
>>If I fry myself on them, that is acceptable.  I can do so much attrition that
>>UK and US have to waste resources propping up Russia.
> 
> True, though before I thought you were saying you were transporting from
> Africa.

I can also transport from S. europe or Ukraine OR E.europe. Enough choices,
Ithink...
 
>>ALSO, my previous statement is TRUE. they loose the i or the f.  loose the i
>>and Caucasus is still mine!  That i is CRUCIAL to India's defense!  Get rid of
>>it, and I will GLADLY take India over as Japan!  UK has to play
> damage-control.
>>Loose the F, and they don't have a prayer in Asia.
> 
> If Germany dies so quickly I do not think India is that crucial.

Lessee... I think not. I could send 4 attacks of JUST A into Karelia!
The allies cannot touch me until turn4 or 5(they have to send units to Karelia,
remember...)
By then, Japan IS sending 3-4a into Russia a turn.  HOW many I do they get on
turn 3? turn 4?
Also, Japan IPC's on turn two.
 
>>Statisitcs SHOW that they have an average 2f in Karelia, and maybe 1 or 2a.
>>This is not enough to survive my next attack!  UK has to send fighters in
>>JUST to save Russia's butt!  I can keep up armor for 4 attacks.
>>One or two remaining infantry will not keep Japan from backstabbing Russia.
>>(You DID send something to reinforce your backside?-oops! It ALL went into
>>Karelia for two turns!)
>>Japan also cleans up fleeing units(even at the cost of their fighters)
> that are
>>trying to get to Karelia.
>>Japan also bombs.
> 
> Please explain this.  Russia holds Karelia, Britain attacks Baltic with
> 2 fighters, Caucuses with fighter, bomber, inf.  Britain reinforces
> Karelia with 2 inf, and lands planes there.  Japan can not do anything. 
> Russia build 8 more inf in Karelia and put tank there.  Karelia has 1
> 1,11 2's and 4 4's.  What does Germany attack with to get good attrition?

Lessee... does 6i and 9a sound adequate?
 
>>ONE NOTE: where the hell does that flak go?  You said it was moved out.  This
>>seems like wishful thinking.  UNless you move the one in Russia, you
> are out of
>>luck.  looks like that flak is Japan's(the one`e that WAS in Russia)
> 
> Bingo, but Japan is not that advanced yet, I can move the AA guns back
> on turn 3.

I think not.  The ADVANTAGE to fighters is that they can attack 2 away, while
your other forces attack 1 away(they clear the way)  Russia may very well 
be facing troops(tanks) in range by end of turn one, and DEFINATELY by end of
round two.
That flak is mine!
 
>>Takiing it to Caucasus would mean that UK took it back at the loss of India.
> They are anyway.
> 
>>I EXPLAINED.  They LOOSE India!  They cannot afford takng back Karelia,
> which I
>>have 2 a and 2i in Range to take right back!  
>>THey would be stupid to take it back.  Remember...  you have to TAKE it back.
>>if it is blank, it is still mine! 
>>
>>
>>you forget!  THEY GO BEFORE I DO!  I HAVE THE OPTION OF WHAT TO DO!
>>There is no guess-work!  At worst, they are crippled, at best, they loose
>>on turn 2 or 3. Seems like an acceptable risk!
>>You confuse me with tyour logic that unless I have a 100% chance of creaming
>>you, then I shouldn't take the chance!  Leaving Russia with NO pieces other
> 
> No what I said is you probably lose in Karelia, which I think doomes you.

We will see...
:)
Note: We will play TWO games. One with my plan 1, and one with my plan 2,
with the SAME setup for you(to make it as even as possible)

I have heard a lot of people requesting that we play it HERE, and have
Dewey(he volunteered) moderate(roll dice).

I figure a round-per round summary would be okay(post one lengthy post
covering 5 countries' turns.) or we could do a turn-by turn summary)
-I don't know which will cause more strain(?) on the group.
 
>>than 2f is great! they cannot even take Ukraine, which has NOTHING in it!
> 
> What about the tank in Russia.  Since Britian took Caucuses back, the
> tank survives, and can take Ukraine.  In fact, Britain can lan 1 inf
> there.

Look at the board.  That A starts in SFE!  You cannot reach Russia with it!
BTW, Japan kills it round one or two, anyway.
Russia does not take Ukraine. 

>>Joe
....
> Sure.  I look foward to it, though it may have to occur after winter 
> break, OK?

Okay here, too. going skiing 23rd to the 30th(yay!)

Will be busy until then.  Figure around Jan 1 or so, possibly later  I am
interested, but not in a hurry.