From: dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David 'Mishael' Green)
Subject: Re: Furries and sexuality (again)
Keywords: sex furry sex gay sex
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 07:28:18 GMT

In article <2070@ontek.com> john@ontek.com (John Alan Stanley) writes:
->In article <69702@ut-emx.uucp> hepfox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Peyton) writes:
->}But these
->}people should realize that they, too, have a responsibility to keep
->}their activities confined to "furry" subjects when they associate
->}themselves with furrydom.
->
->Ah, here is the crux of the matter.  This statement bothers me.  I suppose
->that means we should avoid talking about politics, cars, friends, or
->anything else not strictly "furry" when we are in "furry" space as well, eh?
->Somehow, that image is not an appealing one, and it seems to give lie to
->your assertions of tolerance.  Fact is, furry gatherings are just like any
->other social group.  People will discuss what concerns them, and you are
->free to join in or ignore them as you will.  There is no way to prevent
->this, and no conceivable reason to do so.  The folks who are concerned with
->gay issues will discuss them, the folks who like guns will discuss them, etc.
->If you don't like the discussion, find someone else to talk to!

What, do you mean that if I can't say, "Hey, can we talk about something else,
this makes me really uncomfortable."?  That strikes me as a conceivable reason
(hey, I conceived of it, didn't I?) call for the halt of such a disccussion.
Yes, I do have friends who are not 'straight.'  Yes, this does not make me
entirely comfortable.  No, I don't particularly enjoy hearing about it.  And
yes, I do appreciate it if people don't talk about such things around me.  This
doesn't mean that there aren't other things we can discuss without anyone
becoming uncomfortable.  In short, there will always be topics that people
won't feel comfortable with, especially in public.  It's, if nothing else,
polite, to avoid these things in conversation with these people.

->}	Does that mean furries can't (or shouldn't) enjoy furry
->}erotica?  No.  But by the same token, they don't have to either.
->
->What on earth does that mean?  I suppose I don't have to do anything except
->eat and breathe, but that would be an awfully boring existence.  Are you
->really saying that you think we should all stop looking at, buying, and
->enjoying furry erotica?  I'm sorry, but if that is the case, you are going
->to be quite disappointed.  I see absolutely no reason to stop enjoying
->furry erotica, and I challenge you to give me one good reason why I should.
->And by that, I mean a reason which has relevance to _me_, and not one which
->makes you think you don't want to see it.  

Whoah, whoah!  He never _once_ said you had to stop enjoying furry erotica.
What he said was that no one _had_ to enjoy furry erotica.  By my
interpretation this means that if someone wants to enjoy furry art, literature,
what-have-you, that erotica doesn't have to be -- and, in my opinion, shouldn't
be -- the sum and substance of that, that if you want animation, if you want
a novel that doesn't happen to be erotic, that if you want art depicting 
furries that isn't suggestive, you can go out and find that.

->}Provided that a healthy dose of "G/PG"-type material continues to
->}thrive in furrydom, and furries learn to be discreet about their
->}sexual activities -- whatever their preferences -- we can keep
->}events like ConFurence from being shut down by crusading Christian
->}fundamentalist types, and get on with the business of being furry.
->
->What will thrive is what people want to see.  I run the ConFurence art show,
->and I categorically refuse to censor in any way whatsoever the material
->people choose to display there.  I myself found several of the things in
->the show this year to be rather disturbing or unpleasant.  But, I would not
->for a moment consider that grounds for removal from the show.  You seem to
->find any sort of display of sexuality to be repugnant.  I am sorry about that,
->but you don't see me complaining about the excesses of violence that some
->other furries seem to favor.  I happen to dislike that sort of thing, but it
->will continue to be welcome in the show.  It would be nice if the folks who
->don't like sexual stuff could take the same attitude.  Sure, you don't like
->it.  Fine.  So, don't stare at it too long, and don't buy it!  Next?

That gets hard when it begins to seem that a large majority of the art that
is out there is erotica.  Yes, perhaps it is a little selfish to complain
that people aren't drawing what _you_ want them to draw... but it does seem
that there's more than just a small call for the non-erotica out there.
Perhaps it's time that this call be listened to with more than just
half-an-ear.

->Ah well, we seem to have strayed from the points Elf!! was trying to discuss.
->Instead, we get to debate once again "Why Sex Is Bad, and Don't Touch That!"
->I'd be disappointed if it were not so damn predictable...

'Sfunny, I didn't once see "Why Sex Is Bad, and Don't Touch That!" in that
article.  What I saw was, "Hey, can't we recognize furriness and sexuality as
two entirely different issues," and "Erotica isn't the only reason for furries
being furries."  Both of which seem quite valid points to me...
-- 
dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu				   David "Mishael" Green
		    Have you scritched your local Furry today?
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Life is too confusing for novices; we should hire professionals to do it for us.