HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsemrad@ems.cdc.com (Joe Semrad)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Back Packing in the Mt Massive, Mt Elbert areas
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:32:56 GMT
Reply-To: jsemrad@ems.cdc.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <29JUL199213572059@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu>, rkohli@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (RRRATION MY RRRUM) writes:
|> Greetings all, 
|>     We have decided to do some backpacking in the Mt Massive, Mt Elbert areas,
|> and camp in the one of the camp grounds around Leadville, Colorado. 
|> 
|> I was looking for suggestions, opinions and experiences of y'all in those 
|> areas. 
|> 
|> Thanks for your time.
|> :-) ranjan 

Many years ago I visited the Leadville area as part of a family vacation.
I remember being impressed by the old mining camps.  You picked up a brochure
and then drove through the camps and the brochure told you what you were
seeing.  The amazing thing is that there were no fences, no warning signs, etc.
If you were stupid enough to get too close to a shaft or walk into a 
building that that decided to collapse you could fall in or get hit in the
head.  With today's emphasis on litigation, I would guess that maybe there
are at least some warning signs aroung the old mines now.  Maybe someone
who has been there lately can report.

Joe
-- 
================================================================
= C. Joseph Semrad                  =   Phone: 612-553-4758    =
= EMPOWER Development               =   FAX:   612-553-4018    =
= Empros Systems International      =   jsemrad@ems.cdc.com    =
================================================================
=      1991 Minnesota Twins, Baseball's World Champions!       =
=           So, Jack it was the money, wasn't it?              =
================================================================
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5484 rec.travel:10560
From: sproule@it.Princeton.EDU (William J.  Jr. Sproule)
Subject: Re: Altitude and Asthma 
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Keywords: Altitude Asthma
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:32:42 GMT


Thanks to all those who replied:

marchant@cea.berkeley.edu
Alan.Pope@Eng.Sun.COM
seb1@druhi.att.com
alleyne@MasPar.COM
jdalbey@nike.calpoly.edu
gt5956a@prism.gatech.edu
ac!bender@uunet.UU.NET
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov
heatherb@NREL.ColoState.EDU
strider@acm.rpi.edu

and anyone else who I have missed.

The best recommendations I received:

1. Check with your doctor.
  I did this the same time I posted the request. 
  He said: 'Have Fun, and don't worry about it!'
2. Drink lots of fluid.
3. Take time to acclimate.
  

Most info about exercising with asthma recommands taking inhalers (if
you use them) 20 minutes or so before you start exertion.  I
find this works well for me, milege may vary with user.

Got my boots, got my tent, set compass on 'WEST' and I'm on
my way.    

-b

-- 
William J. Sproule - Networking  	Princeton University
UUCP:     	...princeton!sproule	87 Prospect Ave.
INTERNET:	sproule@Princeton.EDU	Princeton, NJ   08544
BITNET:		SPROULE@PUCC		VOICE: 609-258-6089  FAX: 609-258-3943
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: akin@sgi.com (Allen Akin)
Subject: Re: Four season tent recomendations.
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:30:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.021128.2686@mitem.com> unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger) writes:
| I'm shopping for a four season tent.  ... Has anyone had experience
| with any of these?
 
| Noall, 8lbs, two small vestibule.
| 
|     Made by a small tent manufacturer.  Two well though out
|     entrances, good ventilation.  Small vestibule but should be
|     able to cook from the door.

I've been using a Noall Eclipse (four-season, but not the expedition-style
Eclipse Mountaineer) for the last five years.  My only regret is that I
didn't buy one when I first saw it, a couple of years before that.
The Noall is very thoughtfully designed and extremely well constructed.
It sounds like you're looking at a newer model; mine is a bit lighter
at 7lbs.

Pluses:
	Free-standing.
	Sturdy enough that I never bother staking canopy or fly except
		in storm conditions.  Handles snow load well.
	Very stable and quiet under high and gusty winds.  Tight canopy.
	Two entrances make for easy loading/unloading and allow each
		resident access to the outside without having to crawl
		over the other.  (Especially useful for those midnight
		calls-of-nature in inclement weather.)  My wife claims
		this feature alone is worth the price. :-)
	Well-ventilated.  Allows cross-ventilation along both long
		and short axes.
	Room enough for two people plus gear.
	Tall enough and steep enough walls to allow two people to sit
		comfortably.  I've cooked in the vestibule and served
		dinner for four inside, during foul weather; it was tight,
		but doable.
	Durable.  I camp on rock most frequently, and I've never used
		a groundcloth.  No signs of wear.  No loose seams.
		Never had a zipper jam or fail to close.
	Good selection of interior pockets and gadget loops.
Minuses:
	Asymmetric floor design works best when sleepers lie in
		opposite directions.  I always use it with sleepers
		in the same direction, and just pack the gear a little
		differently, so this is rarely an issue.
	I think the fly comes too close to the canopy at a few points.
		I haven't had a serious problem with condensation,
		but I'd be happier with a little more airspace.

If you have phone number or address for Noall, I'd love to get them.
Somehow I've lost the information and I'd like to keep in touch.

Allen
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: HIKING BOOT SUGGESTIONS??
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 01:48:50 GMT

|> 	I have gotten a lot of responses to my earlier post requesting info on
|> hiking boots, and now I will ask the net's opinion on the brands of hiking
|> boots which were suggested:
|> 
|> 	1)  Asolo boots. 

I had a pair of their "Wilderness" model.  These are light and sturdy, with
all leather uppers and Norweigen welted soles.  They lasted many years before
the uppers gave out.  Prices on new boots have gone through the roof however,
so I no longer think Asolo leather boots are a good value.  If you get them,
make sure you try on several.  Their sizing tends to be somewhat narrower and
longer than similar American shoes.

|> 	3)  Merrel.  No model name -- all leather.  Wondering how well these 
|> 	    hold up.  Indicated that Merrel light hiking boots were NOT good, 
|> 	    so I assume these are the relatively heavy-duty models.

I think Merrels are great.  I have 2 pair.  One is their "Explorer" model,
which is very light, has all leather uppers, and has a reasonably stiff
sole.  These aren't as sturdy as my old Asolos, but they've worked fine on a
couple of 8-10 day backpacking trips.  I also have a pair of their ultralight
high-top walking shoes ("Light Traveler" model) that I use for both day
hiking and around-town walking.  These were cheap, but the quality is very
good.  The shoes are very comfortable and sturdy.

|> 	4)  Hi-Tecs.  S

I had a pair of their "Sierra Light" boots.  These are ultralights, similar
to the Merrel Light Travelers.  I think the Merrels are much better and cost
about the same.  My Hi-Tecs started falling apart after a year or so of day
hikes.  After a similar period, the Merrels are still going strong.

Note:  the above comments are personal experiences with specific models.
These may or may not generalize to other users or other models from the same
brands.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kuehn@citadel.scd.ucar.edu (Jeff Kuehn)
Subject: Re: Sleeping Bag Quest!!!
Reply-To: kuehn@citadel.scd.ucar.edu (Jeff Kuehn)
Organization: NCAR / Scientific Computing Division, Boulder CO.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:46:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.153457.19141@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, griffin@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes:
> unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger) writes:
> 
> >Moonstone makes additional liners that you can snap into your bag to
> >give them more loft and warmth.  I got the 20 deg bag for $210 and the
> >25 deg liner (makes the bag a -5 deg bag) for $75.  Pertty good price
> >for a summer and winter bag.
> 
> Dierra Designs makes a line of LiteLoft bags, too.  I've been eyeing one.
> Their 20 degree model goes for $150.
> -- 
> Dan Griffin                          Advanced Business Systems, Inc.       
> griffin@egr.msu.edu                  Medical and Dental Practice Management
> 517/349-0386                         517/349-8057

Assuming you meant Sierra Designs:  I just bought their 20 degree LiteLoft bag
and I'm *extremely* pleased with it.  It packs well. It's light. It's warm.
It's well made.  I picked it up on sale for $120 and I feel like I got a great
deal.

-- 
Jeff Kuehn,    SCD Consulting Office, National Center for Atmospheric Research
==============================================================================
We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we
speak. -- Epictetus
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:39:02 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) wonders was I nice, or was I naughty?

>Without pausing, I obliterated the cairn with a gentle kick, then another.
>As I was setting my sights on a third, Tim exploded at me, profoundly pissed.

Eric you would love to go hiking with me.  I am notorious for accidently
knocking over cairns.  My accidental nature has even found me going
back down a trail when I miss one.  Just this last weekend I knocked
over atleast a dozen cairns and down sized several others.  I was
knocking over carins that were three to four feet high and 100 feet
apart when you could plainly see were the trail is.

Your friend Tim is partially correct in that a a carin here and there
is needed for the less experienced hiker.  However, I also very adiment
about not civilizing the backcountry for people who do not have any
backcountry knowledge.  Some people like to go out hiking in areas
that do not have well established trails without having to go
cross-country all the time.

My feeling towards cairns is the following.  They should be used to
mark signifcant parts of a trail were a missed turn could be rather
deviastating.  Like when there is no trail going across a large
meadow.  A cairn at the being and at end of the meadow with one or two
in the middle if need.  They should also be used to keep a large group
together.  The first person should build the cairn and the last should
remove it.  This a also goes for finding your way back.  (Cairns
are the same as using wands on snow - put them in going up take them
out going down).  Cairns do not need to be three feet high three rocks
on top of each other is ussally sufficient.  The idea is to minimize
the obtrusive visual impact while showing the way.

On the same line about cairns.  I the May "Backpacker" there was an
article ont he ADT (American Discovery Trail).  One complaint they had
was in an area in Nevada there was a mountian that had no trail on it
or around it.  It seems that they felt that for the ADT to be complete
it had to have a marked cut trail on a all parts of it.  Part of this
trail also goes through the "urban wilderness".  Now it seems to me
that if a trail is going through a comlpetely civilized urban
wilderness then it should also go through an area completely pristine
area with out a trail and markers along the way.  I been lost more
times in the "urban" wilderness than I have in the nature wilderness
and would love to see an established "trail" like this.


PS when knocking over cairns spend the rocks out away from the
"trail".  People will be less likely to rebuild them.

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Pucky lads, a wee bit over their heads"

	Doug Scott after encountering two climbers
	on Denali suffering from exposure.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Subject: Re: Closed Ski Areas in Colorado - Post 1
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:55:32 CDT


In article <1992Jul31.141950.26223@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mwallace@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Wallace) writes:
> crispin@watson.ibm.com (Crispin Cowan) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Jul30.175218.25581@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mwallace@nyx.cs.
> u.edu (Mark Wallace) writes:
> >>      Lifts: 1 double chair, 1 poma, 1 Mitey Mite
> 
> >What's a Mitey Mite?
> 
> >Crispin
> 
> I believe its a rope tow with handles.  The handle is maybe 16 inches
> a sticks out one side of the rope/cable, it is either held onto
> or can be placed behind the passenger.
> 
> Mark Wallace, Castle Rock, CO
> mwallace@nyx.cs.du.edu
> 


Isn't that kind of dangerous???  How may people have gotten bopped by the handle?  I'll bet it's
very fast though.  Anything is better that getting your gloves shredded by a rope tow.
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: yes there is (was Re: no tent works 3 days in the rain)
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:28:15 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <l6pit5INN9hb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM
(Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>Has anybody found a modern tent that keeps you dry for more than
>three days of solid rain?

Depends on what you mean by "solid."  But yes, in Aug of 1989 a friend
and I (and of course Athabasca and Reudi) spent 3 solid days in the
tent in AK due to rain.  It rained consistently the three days we were
in there, although we could usually (not always!) find a half hour or
so to cook and eat.  (Really, I know it sounds extreme, but true).  In
fact, we awoke one morning on the tundra to a weird sensation:  parts
of the tent were literally floating and one corner was under water.
It had rained so much that even in our elevated area on the dry
tundra, the water level had gone up that much!  We quickly moved to a
nearby slightly higher area (in the rain). 

Now I won't say that things weren't damp, nor that when we awoke in
the puddle a little water didn't get in, but since our sleeping bags
were on pads, they did not get wet, nor did anything else of
consequence.

Oh yes, the tent is a Sierra Designs Sphinx (old style--in fact it was
6 years old at the time and had been seemed sealed when new).

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do? (sometimes)
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:35:01 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 140209@usho29.hou281.chevron.com, hcmal@usho29.hou281.chevron.com (C.M.Allsop) writes:
>     Eugene, you nailed the oil companies (at least Chevron) pretty well
>with that last comment and you summarized adequately the dangers of 
>generalization. Let me, however, restate this in stronger terms. 
>Chevron is not an entity; Chevron is comprised of many individuals 
>like each of us. Some of us care very much about our environment and 
>the natural world in which we live; others, unfortunately, do not. 
>It is the responsibility of those of us who DO care (Chevron or not) 
>to be ever diligent and try to educate those who do not to the 
>legacy which they may be harming by their actions or lack thereof.
>By all means, be aware of policy and actions of companies that 
>have the potential of wreaking havoc on the environment. But also 
>be aware of the positive actions as well as the negative ones and 
>realize that not all of the actions of Chevron employees are 
>orchestrated by the spin doctors for PR reasons.
>     Just remember, every time YOU put gas or oil in YOUR car,
>you must accept some (if only a small portion) of the responsibility 
>for the health and well being of our environment. 
>     OK, I'm off of my soapbox. Before the flames begin, maybe 
>someone can answer one question for me. I have recently travelled 
>quite a bit throughout areas in North America, primarily Texas, 
>Colorado, Alberta and the southeast U.S. Why is it that the only place 
>in all these travels where regular LEADED gasoline is readily available 
>at every pump is California? Just curious.

Here, here.  Thank you.  By the way, California FINALLY stopped selling
leaded gasoline 1/92.  I didn't think you could still buy the stuff when
I came out here from TN.  Leaded gasoline has not been available east
of the Mississippi for over 5 years now.  Ah, California, the Land of the
Oximoron.  I'm trying to do my part - I ride to work on a bicycle every day.
And I work for an 'evil' oil company.  Need something to lubricate my
chain and bearings.

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: Long Trail Information Request
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:31:59 GMT

In article <9BS-1TC@engin.umich.edu> karld@engin.umich.edu (Karl Diederich ) writes:
>
>This is my first post here seeking information.  I will be hiking 
>the Long Trail this August, and am wondering if you can provide some 
>info please.
>  
>Originally I planned to use a tent, but all my prospective partners 
>have had to decline (know anyone who is hiking the Long Trail this 
>August and looking for a hiking partner too?)  If I do wind up going 
>by myself, it would be nice not to take the tent (to save weight).  
>Any opinions on relying on the shelters?  This seems chancy if it 
>starts to rain (we just had seven straight days of rain here in MI), 
>since I would think they would fill up fast.

I was on a small section of the Long Trail (north of Manchester,
around Little Rock Pond.  There were *very few* people around at the
time, but the caretaker said the tent sites around the lake would be
filled up most every day in August.  Since shelters are few, I suspect
there may be a crowd waiting for them, especially on rainy days.



-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: miller@lclark.edu (John Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:24:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Jul22.202435.21164
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

carmanr@lafcol.lafayette.edu (Carman Robert (picro)) writes:
>Derek Kirkland wants to know how anyone could think the zebra was unknown
>to science until the 1930s. I think the animal in question is not the zebra
>but the okapi, which was not identified and described as a species until 
>1900.

I posted the article that Derek questioned.  His point and yours are
well-taken.

I want to clarify however that I was only recollecting what Roger Patterson
(a bigfoot tracker) had to say in his travelogue-like show.  I recall him
citing the zebra, but that was over 20 years ago that I heard him talk.
Your explanation has settled a memory inconsistency of mine.  Thanks!

What I was asking in my post was whether anyone out there had an explanation
or expose' of Patterson's film...  It was not a bear on its hind legs.  Its
stride was too upright for an ape or gorilla.

Film: Sasquatch walking away, left-to-right crossing a stream bed in the
fall.  Muscle movement clearly visible under the hair/fur.  Bigfoot turns
its head and right shoulder to look back, exposing its chest/breast.
Disappears into brush.
-- 
"What's ahead?"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Camping and Climbing in New Zealand
From: runner@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Freddo)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:30:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: None at all

In article <12633@pignut.rl.ac.uk>, mm@inf.rl.ac.uk (Mike Mead) writes:

Most of the article deleted for brevity.

> The water in all places is good and requires no treatment. If giadia is
> prevalent there will be a vast number of notice warning you of it (there had
> been a couple of people get it whilst I was in NZ - but put it this way a 
> couple of people gettin it made national news!).

Giardia has become a lot more common in NZ in the past few years. I wouldn't
drink straight from any stream in the North Is., and it's safest to assume it
occurs in most of the South Is. also. As far as I know, there isn't any on
Stewart Is. (the one below the South Is.). The latter is highly recommended
if you want to see how NZ was before people came here - the birds are
everywhere. It does have a certain reputation for mud though.
-- 
Graham McKenzie
Phone: +64 4 4715346    Internet: runner@gphs.vuw.ac.nz
Fax: +64 4 4712070      Bitnet: runner%gphs.vuw.ac.nz@uunet.uu.net
"They also surf who only stand on waves"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mefels@triples.math.mcgill.ca (Mark Fels)
Subject: Canoeing/Camping in Maine
Organization: Dept Of Mathematics and Statistics
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:25:37 GMT

Hello out there, I was wondering whether anyone knows if there are some 
descent places in Maine to go canoeing. Preferably being fairly isolated 
for a 5/6 day trip. 
Thanks eh!
Mark

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:30:14 GMT

>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:

>>My favorite signs are the "Adopt a Highway Litter Control"
>>... The god-danged signs are more offensive then the litter
>>ever was...

During a recent trip, I say the following sponsor for a few miles of
US 395 between Mammoth Lakes and June Lake:

"Another June Lake Liberial" [sic]

I thought this was pretty amusing.

Is June Lake known for liberals?
Or bad spellers?

-- 

	Jeff Mulligan (jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov)
	NASA/Ames Research Ctr., Mail Stop 262-2, Moffett Field CA, 94035
	(415) 604-3745
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Bibler Tents?
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:18:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center

Does anyone out there own a Bibler I-Tent or the
Eldorado? What do you think?

If someone had any other suggestions for a light-
weight, three+ season, bathtub floor, (doesn't
have to be ToddTex) no or center seam fly, I'd
appreciate hearing from you as well.

Thanks,
Dave
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry