HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Henk.Wolsink@p0.f2.n7104.z5.fidonet.org (Henk Wolsink)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Any sites in Ethiopia?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 07:49:39 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7104/2.0 - The Catalyst BBS, Port Elizabeth

On 10 Nov 1992 @ 22:20, F. Jacot Guillarmod wrote, and I quote:

 >         Lishan.Adam@f1.n751.z5.fidonet.org

 > This information is a bit old, but it may help.

Old, but valid. ;-)

Henk. 




--  
INTERNET: Henk.Wolsink@p0.f2.n7104.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Is racism "for whites only"? they are after my brother
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:48:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I said:

>>It is clear why NO black man in the whole world has been able to be racist 
>>since Alexander "the great" over threw the last Egyptian Pharaoh.

This chap retorted:
 
>Well, Mr Mweene, I guess congratulations are in order on your being the
>first in 2300 years.

I am not going to waste my time repeating simple explantions. You can refuse to
be educated if you want.i

>By the way, your knowledge of history is as rotten as your attitude.

Spare me your arrogant ignorance. 

makala
.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: jama@inetnode.austin.ibm.com (Jama Barreh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:19:05 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Nov6.152622.45@acuvax.acu.edu> ltt75326@acuvax.acu.edu writes:
>In article <1dbjklINNkqa@gap.caltech.edu>, kwp@wag.caltech.edu (Kevin W. Plaxco) writes:
>> 
>> Chowning@acuvax.acu.edu (Richard Chowning) writes:
>> 
>> I'm looking forward to a reasonable, informative discussion on this
>> important topic.
>> 
>> -Kevin
>accusations clouding the issue. I offer this promise: If Africans 
>will tell me and the network objectively about female circumcision
>then I will not offend you by giving my white man's opinion. And in
>return for that I ask that I not be offended by being told my pain, 
>
>Thanx to you --- Mulungu andakuhadze!
>L.T.
> 
       This custom is widely practiced in Somalia . A somali woman wrote
her PhD dessertation about this topic. I think this is the way her name is
spelled .
    RUKIYA H. DUALE(H)  
  If you are interested and can not find the book, I will be glad to find
more information for you. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: RAIN (Pula thata) in Southern Africa
X-Xxdate: Tue, 10 Nov 92 08:30:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:36:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov09.133435.9099@rchland.ibm.com> Winslow Sargeant,
sargeant@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:
>	Steve, I have been in touch with various people in Botswana and I was	
> told that rain has been plentiful.  I would look forward to seeing all
the
> green (trees etc.) when I visit Joberg and Gaberone in December.

In fact the reain has been so plentiful here that there is some chance
all the trees will be washed away by December.		
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Scandal(s) of the day
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:14:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov12.131452.20519
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 14:57:28 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In the Star today: a report on policing in kwaNdebele during "unrest"
when the homeland attempted to go for "independence". (For those who
don't know the background: in 1986/7 kwaNdebele chief minister S S
Skosana attempted to push for "independence" so he could have casinos
built - among other reasons. The popular traditional leader James
Mahlangu led opposition to this. There was considerable violence from
both sides, which the government at the time blamed on the UDF/ANC.)

The commission found that the police improperly sided with Skosana,
and blamed the police/Skosana side for most of the violence. It found
that the separation of kwaNdebele police from the SAP was a disaster,
with much evidence of the police obstructing justice (losing almost all
dossiers on cases against the police, numerous allegations of crimes
by members of the police force). Seconded officials from the central
government supported vigilante action against anti-indepence people
and even incited anti-independence "comrades" to necklace enemies and
burn down their homes.

In the same issue: evidence of a plot alleged to be personally approved
by chief of the army Gen Georg Meiring to discredit the ANC by feeding
journalists with claims that MK had links with the IRA and PLO. The
project was aborted after Military Intelligence agents were arrested
in the UK. The project was called "Project Echoes", and was launched in
April this year - at a time when the government was flatly denying
dirty tricks against the ANC.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:GHANA: ELECTIONS FREE AND FAIR, SAYS COMMONWEALTH
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:10:39 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Reference: Third World Dvpmnt
Title: GHANA: ELECTIONS FREE AND FAIR, SAYS COMMONWEALTH /RELATE /


att editors: please relate following item to 'ghana: rawlings
leads as opposition cries foul' moved from accra
at 07:55 gmt.

accra, nov 4 (ips) -- the commonwealth observer group has
declared the conduct of tuesday's presidential poll in ghana
free and fair.

but as the group's interim report was being circulated,
sporadic incidents of violence broke out in accra -- with one
unconfirmed death -- and tamale in the north of the country.

the four opposition parties announced a united front to
challenge the legitimacy of the result, boycott next month's
parliamentary election, and organise demonstrations to press
their case.

''in our view the whole election is null and void'', kweku
baako, publicity secretary of the people's heritage party (php)
told ips.

''the government must resign, the electoral register
re-opened and a re-run of the election. the (ruling) provisional
national defence council (pndc) have proved sufficiently that if
they are in power they will manipulate the election again'', he
said.

with results of 120 constituencies out of 200 in, incumbent
flt-lt jerry rawlings has 52 percent of the vote with his
nearest rival, albert adu-boahen, leader of the centre-right new
partiotic party (npp) on 30 percent.

rawlings needs over 50 percent to win outright and avoid a
second round run-off.

allegations of rigging came from the opposition before the
polls closed. concern intensified following early returns which
showed rawlings winning in what was expected to be opposition
heartland.

none of the four opposition candidates clinched their home
towns, and the npp tripped up in most of the constituencies of
the east where they were widely expected to romp home.

but commonwealth observer group chair, sir ellis clarke,
while noting imperfections, particularly with the voters role,
said he was satisfied that the election had been ''free, fair
and free from fear''. (more/ips)


ghana: elections (2)

he said that while there had been irregularities, ''there was
no evidence whatsoever of any pattern in this'' or that anything
''that went wrong will effect the final result''.

he emphasised that the commonwealth team was validating the
process not the result.

rawlings has ruled this west african country for 11 years and
lifted the ban on multiparty politics in may this year following
substantial domestic and donor pressure. (end/ips/oa/ro/ar/92)
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Cultural Exclusivity
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:52:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov8.184603.17618@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg) writes:
>Ah, I was wondering when your favourite topic would come up again. What is this,
>the third or the fourth time? Last time you started spouting about this 
>someone (F. Jacot Guillarmod if I recall correctly) posted the e-mail addresses
>of a few black students/staff members at Rhodes University. Did you try to
>contact them? If so, perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us why they don't
>contribute to s.c.a. In addition, I e-mailed you with an offer to help you
>contact black students at UCT. Funnily enough, no reply.


UAs consistent as at any other time since you started posting. Your ethnic inclination being your guiding principles. I hope you did not think I would stopp 
fighting your apartheid and racism......

We Africans have a saying that "The crime does not rot..." If you think the
passage of time will solve "your" problems, you are wronng.


A person is naive and ignorant who thinks that the loaf of bread tastes different from its crumbs.
>
>You've never told us what your field of study is Paul. I hope it isn't 
>psychology.

It seems to me as if you think that we agreed to fraternise.....
My field of study is none of your buisness. I have never asked for yours so
don't ask for mine


makala
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Genital Mutilation (girls)
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:17:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.9556
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <35040002@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> megana@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Megan Adams) writes:
>If adult women choose to so mutilate themselves, I have no problem with it.
<>megana

who the hell are you? why do you think any one should do things just to please
you?

makala
From: bakuli@sml8.ecs.umass.edu (Luvisia Bakuli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Looking for Swahili programs
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:48:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: risky.1992Nov5.174840.27366
Organization: Project Pilgrim, Umass

Check with swahili-l@macc.wisc.edu, the list owner has a list of the schools. 
-- 

_______________________________________________________________________
Luvisia  Bakuli  | bakuli@sml1.ecs.umass.edu 
+--+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
From: Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Other people's problems (was Re: female Circumcision)
X-Xxdate: Fri, 6 Nov 92 15:51:48 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:25:34 GMT

In article <9146@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> Paul M Mweene, pmmst8+@pitt.edu
writes:
>e a job, and thats is to immediately initiate the return of all the
wealth that
>your kind have expropriated from it's rightful owners....

You may have a point here but it would be presumptuous of me to decide
how this should be done. I would rather leave this to a representative
and democratically elected government which is something we should have
as soon as possible in SA. If you can think of anything to hasten this
process let me know.

>How you think we ought to solve our problems is irrelevant since your
voice is 
>aan ineligible. And if you think that we can submit our responsibility
to white
>women, you are WRONG. Like you we are going to keep them out.

What do you mean "like you"? I have never excluded women from any
discussion.

I do not have the slightest interest in solving other people's problems
but rather in dealing with the kind of systemic problems that deny
other people's rights and hence their ability to solve their problems
for themselves. If I were qualified to deal with other people's
problems I would be a psychologist, not a computer scientist.

What I attempted to do was to steer discussion to more universal themes
that could be debated with less acrimony. Oh well. Maybe I should stick
to computer science and leave culture to the bigots and xenophobes.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: jnr@igc.apc.org (Jim Rosenfield)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:40:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700197:cdp:1471700222:000:480
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov  4 20:40:00 1992


>The language and name calling by just a few here has really 
>caused this to be a rather distastefull reading.  Sure, I could just skip it 
>on my terminal, but the subject is interesting and important. 


I agree it is distasteful, but that is because it is a subject about which
people feel very strongly and also becuase it is unexamined.  Apparently
the strands of the conversion run to several sensitive areas.
Stay engaged, rely on your courage.....we could get somewhere.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel)
Subject: Please post!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:49:44 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


(I know I'm going to flamed by the usual crowd, but I've been trying to 
update my kill files lately...)

Please, folks, don't be afraid to post on this newsgroup.  Please, post!
From what I've been able to tell, soc.culture.african is meant as a forum on
thing that concern Africa, especially concerning culture.  It is NOT meant
to be the turf of one electronic-gang or an ethnic enclave of one group.  (I
thought that process is what got Africa into so many problems in the first
place...)

Do not feel intimidated by a few brazen bullies on the net (and the bullies
know who they are...).  If you feel intimidated by me, I apologize.  

I'll be posting comments for general discussion.

--Andrew Varvel--

The North Dakota Institute for the Study of Psychic Internet Posters
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:08 PST
Subject: Abilene Helps Somalia Day!
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700240:000:723
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Nov 11 17:08:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: Abilene Helps Somalia Day!

/* Written  2:19 pm  Nov 10, 1992 by AFRICA-L@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU in igc:bitl.africa */
/* ---------- "Somalian activist on PBS" ---------- */
Reply-To: "FORUM PAN-AFRICA (Peer Distribution List)"              <AFRICA-L@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From: "(CHELAGOI)" <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Somalian activist on PBS

BTW, the Mayor of Abilene is going to proclaim Saturday, Nov. 14 "Abilene
Help Somalia Day."  He will make the proclamation Fri. afternoon at the
Mall of Abilene amid African dancers and the eating of ugali.  The next
day shoppers at the mall will be giving donations for famine relief amid
African cultural festivities.

--- Chelagoi
From: spinoza@next06wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: male circumcision (was Re: Female Circumcision)
Date: 8 Nov 1992 03:40:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: next10wor.wam.umd.edu

In article <BxDKs4.B8E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  
kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:
> 
> What you are saying really does not support the arguments of your  
people. 
> You say:
> 
> 1) You were circumcised when you were a baby.
> 2) You would not have accepted this to be done unto you if you were 13.
> 
> My view is that babies do not have rights at all anywhere in the world!
> If you (or anybody else) think baby boys enjoy this circumcision and its  
long 
> aftermath (days for the wound to heal, well after the aesthesia has  
stopped 
> working), then you must have another think coming. Indeed, if you even 
> suggest (as others have done) that somehow the element of choice exists  
in 
> the west as far as circumcision goes then you must be crazy!!
> 
Ummmm. Hate to disagree with you on this one, but here goes:
1. There is a rather large difference between an infant and a 13 year old.  
While it is true that an infant also feels pain, the degree to which the  
infant feels pain must surely be less developed than the 13 year old. In  
addition, the psychological aspect of circumcision should be looked at as  
well. A 13 year old is quite aware of what is happening, and thus is more  
stressed by the experience.
2. It ws never said that the baby enjoyed the experience, only that in  
Hubert's case, he does not feel as though there was any permanent  
scarring. (literal or figurative). I concur with Hubert's judgement.
3. In the West, there most certainly is choice regarding circumcision. It  
is considered elective surgery if performed in a hospital and is NOT done  
as a matter of course. Observant Moslems and Jews probably have it done (  
it is a commandment that both faiths share), but the West is primarily  
Christian, a faith which has no such requirement. 


shalom

jeff

"Let no one build walls to divide us
Walls of hatred nor of stone
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us
We'll live together or we'll die alone"
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:13:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov12.143143.7054@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>I've ever come across at UCT, black or white. Not to mention your
>anti-homosexual ranting,

Let me be the first to tell you that your spirited and dedicated defense of
your culture impresses me. And you are right I dont understand homosexuality
and I should leave it alone. The owners of it will pracise and adjust it
as they see necessary. No one should tell any one else what to do. I agree
entirely with this concept. I ask you to extend the same courtesy to my culture..,,
> and your defence of brutal mutilation of
>women for sexual exploitation by your fellow men. Brothers all, eh? 
 Read above, faultless one...
.
>
>Note racist labelling of people as boers. 
>Gavan Tredoux

There is no racism in this. Boer is a Dutch (Afrikaans) word meaning farmer
given to the boers by themselves.

makala
From: Jim Rosenfield <jnr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:27 PST
Subject: Re: Desktop famine-fighting aids
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700239:cdp:1471700249:000:185
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 11 20:27:00 1992


dorothy, this is just great.  thanks so much for the urging.
once more to the word processor I go.  you can count me in.
i can use my new modem to try to save African babies.  you bet.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african


I think it is entirely appropriate for the international community to
agitate against human rights violations in particular countries. The 
mutilation of the genitals of girls so they can never experience sexual
pleasure (orgasm) and suffer from problems with childbirth and intercourse
for the rest of their lives is such a violation of human rights.

If adult women choose to so mutilate themselves, I have no problem with it.

I wonder if the men defending this practice from criticism on 'cultural'
grounds are also against the role of Amnesty International in the 
international community. It has been frequently asserted by dictators
that their practices of torture of dissidents, etc, should not be
criticized because they were appropriate to a particular culture. 

Defending severe physical mutilation on cultural grounds is itself a
corrupt behavior---just as defending political torture on cultural
grounds is a corrupt behavior. I have noted that (at least on my feed)
all the people defending this practice from criticism are men. I think
it is totally unjustified for these *men* to assert that this practice
is above criticism when it is *women* who suffer its effects. 

The countries in which this custom is practiced are all characterized by an
extremely low status for women. In such countries, the support that an
international community can give for human rights for women is 
irreplaceable. It is a service to the world community, and is an effort
that needs to be *expanded*. I am not saying that women of the west 
should try to change things from the outside; I'm saying that we can
help women's organizations within such countries with resources, information,
etcetera.

And the men who think we should go away and shut up---TOO BAD!!! It won't
happen. I circulated a petition from a coalition made up of a long list
of international women's organization to the U.N. that makes issues
particular to women, whether they be rape, domestic violence, or 
genital mutilation, or others, issues of HUMAN RIGHTS. Organizing of this
type WILL CONTINUE SO GET USED TO GETTING OVER IT!!!

On a side note, I will assert that if this cultural practice of genital
mutilation has any validity, then it will continue when it is no longer
abusively enforced against small girls. If those who support this practice
*really* believed in it, they wouldn't need to force it on powerless 
children. They could rely on their powers of persuasion on adult women
who can make choices. 

Of course they don't really believe in it, and that's why they must rely
on force.

megana.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Zimbabwe: showers come but planting season comes not
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:16:53 GMT

In article <1dq1pnINN496@mozz.unh.edu> llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) writes:
>The BBC reports that more showers fell in Zimbabwe today -
>actually the rains have been coming on and off in the last
>three weeks...the problem seems to be that these rains
>come with winds from the west and the met office thinks
>people shouldn't start planting yet until they get rains
[stuff deleted]

Indeed....These winds from the *west* cannot be trusted.....:-)

-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet          "......up to our necks in owls...":
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp   worries of an anti-ozone, owl-killing paranoid.
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Lebowa corruption
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:55:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov12.095538.18317
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:39:38 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

A 750 page report on corruption in the Lebowa homeland has been
published this week.

It details nepotism, incompetence and corruption on a vast scale.

The chief minister of Lebowa has refused to take responsibility,
saying it was the fault of "experts" seconded from Pretoria who
turned out to be incompetent. The various government ministers
responsible have claimed they are not responsible because Lebowa
is "autonomous". The auditor-general has complained that every year
his audit shows massive irregularities in the homelands and every
year nothing is done.

In 4 years, 1-billion rand was lost to unaccounted for spending,
double pay (officials paying themselves salaries of people who
were no longer employed) etc.

And this in one of the smallest homelands.

A similar report on kwaNdebele is due out today.

I seem to recall our friends from UCT not too long ago claiming that
whatever the faults of apartheid it didn't cause a huge amount of money
to be wasted (i.e., no huge saving would result from scrapping the whole
thing).

Although the scale of the corruption in Lebowa may not apply to all
homelands it is a sobering thought that clamping down on all such
corruption nationally really could make a significant difference to
funds for education, health care etc.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african