HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 7 Nov 92 04:32:12 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <1992Nov05.233921.31258@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org) wrote:
>: 	 A Denver teacher was ordered to cease reading his Bible silently
>: 	 during his class reading period and to remove the book from his
>: 	 desk.
>
>Like it or not, an employer can dictate what his employee does while at work.

WRONG!  If your employer is the government they must still play by the
rules - and the rules are what is written in the Constitution.

	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
	religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
	abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the
	right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
	the Government for a redress of grievances.

If a teacher can read "Newsweek" during his class reading period, he should
be able to read the Bible.  Something about "or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof".
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Xref: sparky tx.politics:7090 tx.general:777 austin.general:3365 austin.politics:245 houston.general:1154 dfw.general:670 tamu.general:223 ut.general:182 utcs.general:60
From: gina@rintintin.colorado.edu (Gina Cherry)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,tx.general,austin.general,austin.politics,houston.general,dfw.general,tamu.general,ut.general,utcs.general,utece.general
Subject: Help Preserve Civil Rights in Colorado
Followup-To: poster
Date: 7 Nov 1992 03:09:52 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: paducah.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: discrimination gay lesbian bisexual boycott

As many of you probably know, on Tuesday, Colorado voted in an
amendment to their state constitution which revokes any existing
gay/lesbian/bisexual civil rights legislation and prohibits the
drafting of any new legislation.  The amendment was spearheaded by a
right-wing organization inappropriately self-named Colorado Family
Values (CFV).  It is our understanding that they have no intention of
stopping their hate campaign here; they intend to push for
legislation with a stronger discriminatory flavor here in Colorado and
surrounding states.

What can you do?

1. Two mail/news groups have been created in response to this 
   discriminatory amendment.  The mailing lists will be ready on
   Saturday, November 7.

   amend2-discuss@cs.colorado.edu / co.politics.amend2.discuss
	  ... for people who are discussing the implications 
          and issues surrounding the passing of amendment 2.

   amend2-info@cs.colorado.edu / co.politics.amend2.info
	  ... moderated mailing list for people interested in
	  information on the implication and issues of #2.

   Sending mail to either mailing list has the effect of also posting 
   the message to the corresponding shadow newsgroup.  We encourage
   people to use the mailing list address when disseminating information
   so that those people who are on the mailing list but who do not
   have access to news can benefit from the discussion/information.

   To subscribe to either mailing list, send mail to:
           Majordomo@cs.colorado.edu
   where the body of the message is:
           subscribe <listname>
 
2. Contact Governor Roy Romer to express your outrage.

	  Governor Roy Romer
 	  136 State Capitol Building
	  Denver, CO 80203
	  (303) 866-2471

3. Boycott Colorado-made products (the most common of which are
   probably meat and beer) and Colorado tourism (yes, this means skiing).

4. Contact the Colorado Tourism Board and the Colorado Association of
   Commerce and Industry to express your disdain:

	  Colorado Office of Tourism
	  1625 Broadway Suite 1700
	  Denver, CO  80202
	  (303) 592-5510

	  Colorado Association of Commerce and Industry
	  1776 Lincoln Street Suite 1200
	  Denver, CO 80203
	  (303) 831-7411

5. The plan of action in response to the new amendment is to
   file a lawsuit.  To be added to the list of people on the adjoining
   amicus brief call the City of Boulder at (303) 441-3090 (you need not
   be a Colorado resident).

6. Contact your Senators and Congressional representatives to tell
   them that you want them to support the national gay rights bill, which
   Clinton promised to sign.

7. SPREAD THE WORD!  Forward this message anywhere you can think of.

-- 

Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:51:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.144014.26059@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>In <Bx814r.H5I@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov3.195654.5308@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>>In <1992Nov02.233846.8855@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <1992Nov02.204735.5570@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>>>>>You can't ignore the fact that when the US government forces Japanese
>>>>>companies to raise their prices (or shuts them out completely) the US
>>>>>companies also raise their prices, giving the US companies more money at
>>>>>the expense of the consumer.  
>>>
>>>>	Texas Instruments verified this claim just this week.
>>>
>>>Name of spokesman and his organization, please?
>
>>	Bill Mullally, Bear/Stearns, reading from analyst reporting.
>>T.I., according to same, raised prices accordingly.
>
>Ah, I see.  So *TI* verified nothing at all.  See below.

	Did T.I. not raise prices? If they did, that verifies a claim
that T.I. raised prices, doesn't it? I wasn't "verifying" the rhetoric,
just the price increase. I've already admitted that I didn't make that
clear, initially.

>>>[Of course, if this is simply taking notice of the fact that when
>>>people competing unfairly are blocked from doing so that others in the
>>>market will readjust their prices to go back to making a normal
>>>profit, then you've simply committed a dumbness in this statement.  I
>>>don't do chips, Joe.  I build the stuff that kills people.]
>
>>	Fred, very well. Do you have a complaint with something I said?
>>I see- you do. It appears justified. I didn't mean to cooberate (how
>>the hell do you spell that?) the "more money at the expense" part. I
>>meant "They raised prices." Sorry. 
>
>Your original statement made it look like you were claiming that
>someone from TI had said something like, "Oh yes, we raised our prices
>strictly because we could get the government to intervene for us."  I
>thought that was just a bit out of line.  Any price rise you see is a
>readjustment back to REAL market levels for price (sans 'dumping' and
>'subsidized competition' by foreign companies).

	Agreed. I don't see it as gov't interference any more than 
I would our army defending our shores from invaders as interference.
Truly. I certainly want T.I. to be able to make a fair profit. BTW, 
I sell Microlasers. They are very reasonably priced, well built,
and compatible. Good stuff. Now, if one should blow up on a customer,
and kill him/her, would that be one that you built? You did say you
build the stuff that kills people, no? (Okay, so I don't even deserve a
smiley).


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"We need stronger death penalties..." George Bush, debate #2
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: CHOICE: DEBATE BASED ON COMPETING PHILOSOPHIES
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 22:56:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.034821.8556@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>In <21797@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct29.232645.13268@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> marc@grieger.austin.ibm.com (Marc Fairorth) writes:
>>>The end result will be that poor families will be sending their kids to 
>>>increasingly poorer schools, and private schools will florish.  We need
>>>less polarization in this country.  Strong local public schools are 
>>>essential to the well being of a community.  School vouchers are a bad idea.
>
>>No, the end result will be that poor students will have access to the
>>same schools as the rich students.  It will be one of the conditions
>>for accepting vouchers - any student, any race, any income level who
>>presents a voucher, gets admitted.
>
>Well no, it won't.  We've been all through the reasons before, John.
>You simply fail to present a credible case for why this doesn't simply
>result in white middle-class and better parents getting subsidized to
>pull their kids out of public schools.

I think this can be a win-win situation.

Private schools in this country average about half the cost to 
educate a student as public schools.  Lets say $2500 vs. $5000.
That being the case, allow every parent the opportunity to use
a $2500 voucher.  For each student that is then enrolled in a
private school, the public school gets a $2500 subsidy.

It's kind of like the government paying farmers not to grow crops.



thomas rush				uunet!cpqhou!thomasr
compaq computer corporation		their employee,
deep in the hearth of texas		not their opinions.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: VOUCHER VISIONARIES DON'T OFFER WHAT'S NEEDED
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:49:41 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


*10  EDITORIAL:  VOUCHER VISIONARIES DON'T OFFER WHAT'S NEEDED
     Syndicated columnist Clarence Page writes that the vision of
school-voucher proponents is "so glorious that support for
vouchers has risen dramatically in recent years, perhaps most
dramatically among poor black families, even though skeptics fear
vouchers might lead to more segregation, isolation and misery."
(BALTO. SUN)
     Page cites a poll by the Joint Center for Political and
Economic Studies, a Washington-based think tank, that "found an
astonishing 88 percent of African-Americans favor education
choice plans that include public and private schools, with the
highest support (95 percent) coming from African-Americans with
annual incomes of less than $15,000."
     But Page writes that a recent report by the Carnegie
Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching report on school
choice "shed some light -- and quickly generated political heat."
He notes that the study found 70% of parents would not switch to
another school under a choice program.   Ed Sec Lamar Alexander's
last week wrote that "only a very self-satisfied establishment
could so easily dismiss so many parents' wishes."  (See DRC
10/26, #9) Page counters that "only a very self-satisfied
administration could so easily dismiss Carnegie's reality check.
Maybe the parents know something Washington's deep thinkers are
missing."
     Page:  "I think the growing public outcry for vouchers,
especially among the poor, reflects a growing frustration over
the savage inequalities that result from funding schools almost
completely through local property taxes.  You buy your school
when you buy your house (or rent your apartment), and low-income
children suffer the most."
     The "voucher visionaries," according to Page, do not offer
"a sensible program to make all public schools ... havens of top-
quality education" because vouchers do "next to nothing for the
hard-luck cases who need help the most." (11/3)


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now. -
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Community Service=Slavery? Courts will decide.
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:44:33 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


       =====  GOAL THREE:  CORE COURSE PROFICIENCY  =====

*1   PA. APPEAL:  FAMILIES CHALLENGE COMMUNITY SERVICE POLICY
     The Third U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia
yesterday heard arguments in a case that challenges the
constitutionality of a community-service graduation requirement
(Slobdozian, PHILA. INQUIRER).  The Steifer and Moralis families,
who filed suit, say the Bethlehem, Pa., school district is
violating the U.S. Constitution's ban on involuntary servitude.
     Both sides in the case agree that the case "could redefine
constitutional law involving the power of public schools and the
rights of students," according to the INQUIRER.
     The Steifers and Moralises originally filed suit in U.S.
District Court.  Judge Daniel Huyett ruled against the two
families in April, saying the policy was not unconstitutional
(See DRC 7/29, #5).  The families then appealed to the Third
Circuit Court.
     Lawyer Eric Strauss argued that the policy violates
students' free speech rights by forcing them to perform work that
implies an underlying moral philosophy.  Strauss:  "The value
being promoted is that we all have a duty to help our fellow man
... This program forces these students to act in accordance with
that value."
     Michael Levin, attorney for the school district, said
mandatory community service is not different from other
curriculum requirements.  Levin said allowing the families to
"opt out" of the program would threaten other academic
requirements.
     Chief Judge Dolores Sloviter:  "All curriculum involves
values.  Why is it that a value to do community service is more
objectionable than to go to Washington on a trip to see the
monuments of our country?"
     Educational groups, "including the National School Boards
Association, the National Youth Leadership Council and the
Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Learning, filed briefs
supporting Bethlehem's case," according to the newspaper (11/4).


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now. -
From: dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Subject: Re: Term Limits
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: tx
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:27:38 GMT

In article <Bx8D8n.xr@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>Ok.  Now that the elections are over, perhaps one (or more) of the 
>proponents of term limitations could explain this to me.  The term limits
>were very popular and won in a number of areas.
> 
>Yet, incumbents still won in incredible numbers....
> 
>This seems to be a case of "do what I say, not what I do".  I can think
>of a couple of explanations, but none of them quite do the job.  


Well, part of the problem is that there usually aren't any opposing
candidates from the same party as the incumbent.  For instance, I don't
want to vote for an incumbent like Jack Fields, who in theory represents
my district (in reality, he represents only the oil interests in Humble),
but I'm not about to vote for the Democratic (usually liberal)
opposition.  If another conservative with less bias towards the oil
industry had run against Fields, I'd have voted for her/him in an
instant.

Term limits would get around this problem somewhat by allowing candidates
from the same party as the incumbent to run for the office without the
financial perils of running against the incumbent.  

Daryl
-- 
Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu or  dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Fix this damn country
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:48:35 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <1992Nov04.235010.31648@watson.ibm.com> johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>In article <21812@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>Bush tried that in 1990.  As you'll recall, there was a stretch when
>>the "optional" parts of government all closed down while Bush and Congress
>>worked out at "The Budget Summit".
>
>If Bush had had the balls to pull a "Pete Wilson", he probably would have been
>reelected.

Yes, that is the unfortunate truth and a reason why MANY conservatives
were upset with him.

What Bush did with the budget agreement in 1990 was the equivalent of
Bush asking for sanctions against Iraq, then giving in and letting them
keep Kuwait after 2 weeks.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:30:31 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: You have a lot of nerve axiomatically claiming that something isn't a
: problem and then demanding that others adhere to YOUR assumptions.

You made the claim.  You haven't yet shown what the problem is.

: >Show me that the purpose of public education is to create "good citizens" and
: >perhaps *I'll* change my mind.
: 
: Examine practically ANY serious discussion of the establishment and
: rationales for public education and why it is a 'good thing' for all
: of us to pay for it, instead of making each parent buy their own.

Yes, I've heard that argument countless times, but that has nothing to do with
your rather strange claim that public schools are "good citizen" molds.  I
claim that they are there to teach things to people.  I'm not even sure exactly
what you mean by "good citizen" except that you apparently don't think that
a football player can be one.

:                                           Are you saying that the
: purpose of the educational system in this country should be to act as
: farm clubs for pro sports teams?

Are you saying that the purpose of the educational system in this country 
should be to act as farm clubs for ANY public or private employer?

:                        If you're talking about the pro athletes (the
: ones who are "doing quite well", they GOT their educations.

I'm talking about anyone who doesn't meet your standard of educational 
acheivement.  You look down your nose at them and call them "semi-educated
animals".  I hope the next time you need a "semi-educated animal" to fix your
car or your burst pipes or serve you a meal in a restaurant that they tell you 
to stuff it up your "highly-educated" ass.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a 
 building?" -- TMBG
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: CHOICE: DEBATE BASED ON COMPETING PHILOSOPHIES
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:03:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.144456.24487@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>
>Well, private schools average about half the cost of public schools in
>this country because over half the private schools are parochial in
>nature and hence have a cost advantage (due to tax exemptions on
>church property, the ability to have 'religious' payment to teachers
>as part of their compensation (have a priest teach the math class,
>since he costs a lot less than a 'private enterprise' teacher), etc.).

I have yet to see a public school pay property taxes.  In fact, when I
was growing up, the Federal Government paid my (public) school district
for the value of the property tax that would have been collected if
the various federally-owned land had been in private hands.

thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
I believe all human interactions should be based on mutual consent.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:35:36 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov05.173031.13020@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:

>fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
>: You have a lot of nerve axiomatically claiming that something isn't a
>: problem and then demanding that others adhere to YOUR assumptions.

>You made the claim.  You haven't yet shown what the problem is.

You've made the claim that "no pass - no play" is bad.  You haven't
yet shown that it is.

>: >Show me that the purpose of public education is to create "good citizens" and
>: >perhaps *I'll* change my mind.
>: 
>: Examine practically ANY serious discussion of the establishment and
>: rationales for public education and why it is a 'good thing' for all
>: of us to pay for it, instead of making each parent buy their own.

>Yes, I've heard that argument countless times, but that has nothing to do with
>your rather strange claim that public schools are "good citizen" molds.  I
>claim that they are there to teach things to people.  I'm not even sure exactly
>what you mean by "good citizen" except that you apparently don't think that
>a football player can be one.

Horseshit.  There's no reason a football player can't be a good
citizen.  There is EVERY reason to believe that someone who ONLY knows
how to play football probably will be a bad and unproductive citizen.
What is the logic of everyone paying for education if it doesn't make
them better citizens, John?

>:                                           Are you saying that the
>: purpose of the educational system in this country should be to act as
>: farm clubs for pro sports teams?

>Are you saying that the purpose of the educational system in this country 
>should be to act as farm clubs for ANY public or private employer?

No.

>:                        If you're talking about the pro athletes (the
>: ones who are "doing quite well", they GOT their educations.

>I'm talking about anyone who doesn't meet your standard of educational 
>acheivement.  You look down your nose at them and call them "semi-educated
>animals".  I hope the next time you need a "semi-educated animal" to fix your
>car or your burst pipes or serve you a meal in a restaurant that they tell you 
>to stuff it up your "highly-educated" ass.

More horseshit.  John, those people serving meals in restaurants can
generally do basic arithmetic and read, believe it or not.  So can the
typical mechanic.  Speaking of highly educated asses, perhaps you
should pull your head out of yours?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.