HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Go to alt.fan...we don't want you(was Re: rec.arts.sf.written FAQ)
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:15:00 GMT

Perhaps something that should be added to the FAQ is something akin to the
following:

"Many popular authors are not held in high esteem by most of the r.a.sf.w
crowd.  In particular, coming out with positive comments about Piers Anthony,
Anne McCaffrey, or David Eddings is likely to stimulate responses on the order
of

'I gave up reading {his|her} puling commercial crud years ago, as soon as I
realized they were just turning out crap for money.'

If you really want more positive discussions of the above authors, please go to
the newsgroups alt.fan.anthony, alt.fan.pern, and alt.fan.eddings respectively.
Here you will meet with a warm reception and you can talk about your favourite
authors's supposed hidden virtues, and gripe about how the snobbish r.a.sf.w
crowd can't see {his|her} true quality.  Go away and don't come back unless
you have some _real_ SF to talk about.  Thank you."

I'm only half-kidding here.  I've taken to responding to these people in
email, given the kind of reception I've seen.

I originally composed this message as a reply to Rich Holmes' recent McCaffrey
flame, until I saw that he'd set followups to talk.bizarre and misc.test.
Good one, there, Rich.  But it did strike a chord in me, and brought to mind
the examples I'd seen before of this kind of behaviour...

Any comments?  Defenses?  Flames?  Learned discussions?

--
---Alfvaen(a.k.a. Nysinra, rot13 Psycho)
"So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts
 what's so amazing about really deep thoughts"  -- Tori Amos
Current Album--Iron Maiden:Powerslave
Current Read--Henry David Thoreau:Walden and Other Writings
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: >>>>SEX<<<< and Tolkien
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:16:20 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <1992Aug14.130918.3469@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu 
(Stupendous Man) writes:
>> (3) Sex isn't particularly essential to the plot.. Tolkein's stuff is good
>> enough to sell without it..
>
>	3) is the best reason.  Tolkien wanted to create a mythological type of
>realm.  When was the last time you read something like: "Thor took the mortal
>woman in his arms and pumped her full of molten lava..."

There's plenty of sex in mythology-- Greek and American Indian at least;
I don't know about Norse or Celtic.  Check out Hera keeping Zeus's mind off
the Trojan War in the _Iliad_ by seducing him; or the goings-on in Ovid's 
_Metamorphoses_ (generally, some god raping some poor mortal woman, who
is then punished by the other gods).

>	Except in Larry Niven's "Man of Steel: Woman of Kleenex" :).

Great essay, that.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jan_b@lysator.liu.se (Jan Besehanic)
Subject: Re: Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:42:30 GMT

lgs57@cas.org () writes:

>____________________________________________________________________________
>Linda Siemsen                     lgs57@cas.org
>All opinions expressed therein are solely mine and not that of my employer.
>Current Book:  They Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation
>Current CD: Also Sprach Zarathustra

That's very interesting, but what has it got to do with
Katherine Kerr?

Current CD: U.F.Orb

/Jan
--
Jan Besehanic
email: jan_b@lysator.liu.se
New, improved .sig-file under construction.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse)
Subject: Re: K. Kurtz' Deryni series (Now:  Adept III)
Reply-To: eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:35:27 GMT


In a previous article, mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) says:

>
>This raises an interesting point for me.  When will the third book in the 
>Adept series be published?  I'm anxiously awaiting it!  Of all the modern 
>fantasy I have read this has so far been the best.  That and the Vampire 
>Chronicles by Anne Rice.
>
>Also, what will the title be?
>

I *think* it's due out early next year, but I can't be sure and
I haven't heard a title.  One little tidbit about Adept III--
John Graham from Lammas Night will be putting in an appearance.


-- 
      Beth Hlabse (eah4@po.CWRU.Edu)  Asst. Sysop  SciFi Sig (GO SCIFI)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  To give what we can ..... To take what we must ..... To dance the spiral
         To be one with the magic ..... To live -- and die -- free!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 21:45:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <8259@orbit.cts.com> ceg@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Chris Galas) writes:
>kwilliam@maclab01.seas.ucla.edu (William Kuan) writes:
>>
>>       Any recommendations on fantasy books involving dragons?
>
>Also _A Flight of Dragons_ (the author's name escapes me now) adds
>a mechanical theory to why (some) dragons can fly.
> 

_The_Flight_of_Dragons_, by Peter Dickinson. Basically it
postulates that dragons could have evolved from dinosaurs that
took to flight by generating H2 gas, in effect becoming large
zeplins. Venting excess gas gives you flame, they nest on gold as
their acidic secretions dissolve anything else, and as they are
very vulnerable they tend to enjoy eating soft willing female
sacrifices. :)

Joshua

_  _      "Thats a good idea!"  "I have those every once in a while."
 -(_)(_)-      "Why do you listen to me when I'm wrong?!?"
 \      /          - Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine
  |  . |      
  -____-      jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca 
 /  \/  \     Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-5077]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: The unofficial LSU news node
Distribution:  usa,ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:27:07 GMT

In article <2A91E697.21641@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes...
>In <16s5v4INNb21@agate.berkeley.edu> smoot@roger-rabbit.cs.berkeley.edu (Stephen [Steve] R Smoot) writes:
> 
>Possible mild spoilers follow
> 

> 
>>the Palm as well as without.  The within differences arent
>>dwelt on (exactly *why* couldnt they band together in the
>>face of a common foe?  Other nations have done it...).  And
> 
>As for why they couldn't band together, well there is historical
>precedent.  I was continually reminded of Italy (and I think that was
>an intentional comparison), which has always been rather fragmented.
>I don't have the details or dates on hand, but Italy was invaded
>several times, and the invasion was completed because of the region's
>reluctance to band together.  The Romans were the first but not the
>last.

Hmm, since Mr. Kay is Canadian, and so am I, I was reminded of the 
national unity debate occurring in Canada right now.  The province of
Quebec (Tigana) is in danger of losing its cultural identity (name)
due to the English culture invasion by the rest of Canada (Brandin)
and the U.S. (Alberico).  Apologies to my American friends, but Tigana
was in Brandin's territory, not Alberico's.  The other way I looked at
it was the possibility of the loss of Canada due to the inability of
the separate factions to work together and come to an agreement.  And
even the French Canadians will agree that when it comes to pride and
stubborness, they beat the rest of us hands down. 

Ah, and magic is culture which is why each land's magic is different.
Oops, now I'm getting carried away.  Oh well, as Cindy said, it's fun
to speculate.

  Laura Carriere
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gwills@maths.tcd.ie (Graham Wills)
Subject: Re: Bester & Banks
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:28:47 GMT

In article <16ooqlINNmvm@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug9.035636.6916@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
>
>[THE STARS MY DESTINATION is like CONSIDER PHLEBAS, revenge plotlines
>summarized]
>
>THE STARS MY DESTINATION (as Randall Garrett once pointed out) takes its
>plot from THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO.  I haven't read CONSIDER PHLEBAS,
>but since you have, you might try matching up the stories and see if
>they match.


 Has no-one ever heard the aphorism that there are only 7 (or 8) basic
 stories? REVENGE is one of them, and it is not terribly surprising that
 some revenge plots seem similar. Reading enough Jacobite plays should
 convince you of that.

-Graham Wills
 TCD, Ireland
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: Fionavar Tapestry
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:04:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.045102.2483@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>I looked for Tapestry at my local bookstore, but didn't find it. Does
>anybody know if it's available yet, or when it's coming out? And how does
>this trilogy compare to _Tigana_?

 It has been available (and then out of print) for a few years. I read the
canadian edition last year. The third book of the american reprint should
be out any time. It is very good.

The Finovar books are written as "High" fantasy. You know, Good and Evil?
The Tigana book was written in a lot grayer of a style. Kay said as much
in an interview I read a number of months ago. There is no absolute good
and evil in Tigana. The big bad evil guy turns out to have nice qualities.
The nice guys turn out to be real bastards sometimes. There is a
difference in viewpoint. I rate all of his work in the top fantasy I have
ever read along with Rohan's "Winter of the World" trilogy.

Wassail,
Al Billings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
------------------------------ Cut Here -------------------------------------
begin 644 GRENDEL.PUB
MF58``1%^*@Q":6QL:6YG<RP@06S^`2N`$7JAHA^YG*D:W0:>,_,\N<XL-]7BN
LV+1/'DT4SH3V2$'*(9NAE_,+VB9R.4=@$9R.J1?CL3H!9@HR8+7DD3@%`!$%E
``
end
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lindgren@sics.se (Thomas Lindgren)
Subject: Re: Wolfe, "Book of the New Sun"
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Aug10.045530.37852@cs.cmu.edu>
	<1992Aug11.155209.1655@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:41:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.155209.1655@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:
   One that has always stuck in my head is "Terminus Est."  Severian is
   told (and believes) that it means "the dividing line", presumably
   between life and death (or at least, head and shoulders).  A more
   accurate translation would be "this is the end."  A small but distinct
   difference.

If you go to Paris by train, you may get to the Gare De L'Est, and nearby
stay at the Hotel Terminus Est. Sounded slightly ominous to me.

	Regards,
		Thomas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Lindgren, UPMAIL, thomasl@csd.uu.se, lindgren@sics.se

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Lindgren, UPMAIL, thomasl@csd.uu.se, lindgren@sics.se
From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:50:49 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

Pally Hoffstein writes:
%Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
%contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
%accurate?

_Job_, by RAH (at least the paperback version). It even has the razor in
the guys pocket (can't remember his name). All major aspects of the plot
are in the cover, except Maggie.

Rob

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________________
/                            |                                            \
|   Rob Turner, PC Support   |     email : Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk     |
|   Brunel University        |                                            |
|   London, England          | And me, with a brain the size of a planet. |
\____________________________|____________________________________________/
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:53:02 GMT
Organization: Bradley University

In <12584@ecs.soton.ac.uk> ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ) writes:

>>>>SPOILERS



>I'd agree about his importance as a character - he and Dianora
>- to me - stood out a mile from the other characters, and 
>without them, I don't think the book would have made much
>impression. But evil? I don't feel that what he did was any
>more or less evil than his opponents (except Alberico, who
>was a pure power-hungry monster) - his actions were simply
>more extreme because he had the power to make them so. It
>didn't seem to give him any satisfaction, or any pleasure - 
>it was simply that he was tied in to the downward spiral of
>tit-for-tat revenge (something that has snared most people
>at some point and to some degree)

Hmm.  I don't think it matters how much power the man had, it was
that he had the intelligence to realize what his revenge was
doing to the Tiganese people.  If he chose to exercise that
intelligence on their behalf, which he may not have.  And he
_kept it going_ for so many years, with the avowed purpose of
completely, utterly annihilating their sense of national self.  I
don't care how much power you have, reasonable people _don't_ do
things like that.  The effect would have been something like a
bloodless genocide.

But no, I agree, he didn't seem to take pleasure from it.  Do you
have to take pleasure from your actions to be a scum?

--
"Where's my skull?"
          -Robert A. Crawford, 11-04-91
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: K. Kurtz' Deryni series (Now:  Adept III)
Summary: When will Adept III be published?  What title?
Keywords: Kurtz, Adept
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:33:52 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse) writes:
- 
- Javan's Year (book two in the Heirs of St. Camber trilogy) is due
- out in November in hardback.  Katherine has been rather busy with
- the Adept series (which I highly recommend) and the new place in
- Ireland.  She's also working on a book set during the American
- Revolution (Crown for Two Kings) that is a lot like Lammas Night.
- 
- -- 
-       Beth Hlabse (eah4@po.CWRU.Edu)  Asst. Sysop  SciFi Sig (GO SCIFI)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-   To give what we can ..... To take what we must ..... To dance the spiral
-          To be one with the magic ..... To live -- and die -- free!

This raises an interesting point for me.  When will the third book in the 
Adept series be published?  I'm anxiously awaiting it!  Of all the modern 
fantasy I have read this has so far been the best.  That and the Vampire 
Chronicles by Anne Rice.

Also, what will the title be?


<<  ------------------------------------------  >>
<<        mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca          >>
<<  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  >>
<<               Michel Forget                  >>
<<   The Key:  Spirit over mind over matter.    >>
<<  ------------------------------------------  >>
From: hyde@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Author Polls, voting systems (and Jack Vance)
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:30:52 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <urf.713511054@sw2001>, urf@icl.se (Urban) writes:

> (OK, what did I find strange: That _The Gray Prince_ should
> get such low results, when I like it quite a lot. I guess there
> are people who don't like the political view put forward in it.

	I was one of those who gave this a "-1".  While the politics
	of this book are not my politics that is not the reason
	for my vote.  The book has a lot that is good in
	it (I don't think it's possible for Vance to write
	an entirely bad book) but the novel as a whole did not
	seem to work.  For me the plots and subplots did not
	mesh as deftly as usual in Vance, and the characters were
	rather flat (again, for Vance).

	It seems to be a common thing to dislike a book because
	of its politics (particularly here in Canada) or because
	"I didn't like the central character".  Both of these
	are bad, and perhaps dangerous, criteria to apply to
	literature.  Under these criteria we would have to
	reject Vance's "To live Forever" (elitism) and
	"The Languages of Pao" (Royalist) while under the second
	we'd have to reject the incredible "eyes of the overworld"
	(Cugel is not a nice guy).  Among non sf writers we'd have
	to reject the Brothers Karamazov (unless we believe in
	theocracy) and perhaps Hamlet.



> Second: As Vance is one of the most humourous writers around,
> I thought that would be reflected more. Good entries in this 
> category are _Showboat World_, _Maske: Theary_, _Cugel's Saga_ 
> and everything with Magnus Ridolph.

	With only three positive votes you cannot begin to
	nominate even one example from every type of Vance
	novel.


 Funny, but not quite as 
> good are _The Five Gold Bands_, _The Blue World_

	Are we talking about the same book?  People on floating
	islands (two named after grandmasters of chess) freeing
	themselves from aquatic overlords? (I admit that put that
	way it sounds funny, but when I read it long ago it
	didn't seem so).

 and _Space Opera_
> for example.)
> -- 
>  Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se (Or: n.g.u.fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk)


						Bill Hyde
Department of Oceanography
Dalhousie University,
Halifax, Nova Scotia
hyde@ac.dal.ca or hyde@dalac

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mtpins@icaen.uiowa.edu (Michael T Pins)
Subject: Re: Joe Haldeman: Worlds Enough And Time
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:31:17 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu writes:

>In article <9208111752.AA24858@rutgers.edu>, zellich@STL-07SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Rich Zellich) writes:
-> But all storage forms decay over time.  This is why some SF stories
-> about slower-than-light ships have the computer occasionally reading
-> and rewriting everything.  This refreshes the signal on the media and
-> helps to keep it from being corrupted over time.  If you simply write-
-> protect your mass storage, you'll eventually lose it; you occasionally
-> have to clean up the deteriorating "image".

>	Do CDROMs decay over time, especially over the eighty year time
>frame given ( your wording gives me the impression that you posted
>without knowing what the time frame of the story is )?  Even if they do,
>the virus was a one shot deal, any CDs made along the way as replacement
>backups would not be affected, nor would backups on any other removable
>media.

Actually, it is currently open to question just how quickly CDs decay.
Some of the early CDs, which are still less than a decade old, seem
to be decaying.  Whether this is due to mishandling, shoddy quality,
or an actual physical problem with the format, remains to be seen.

-- 
*****************************************************************************
* Michael Pins                |   Internet: amigapd@isca.uiowa.edu          *
* ISCA's Amiga Librarian      |         #include <std.disclaimer>           *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lewis@wixer.cactus.org (Lewis)
Subject: Re: Help finding a trilogy
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 22:41:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.145453.8557@sequent.com> bfish@sequent.com (Brett Fishbur
ne) writes:
>My wife was listening to National Public Radio and the book reviewer highly
>recommended "The Man Who Never Missed" (which is supposed to be a trilogy).
>I have never heard of this series and couldn't find any references to it in
>my local library.  My wife did not get the author, but she did write down
>the name when she heard it, so she is fairly confident that the series name
>is correct.  Have any of you heard of this series?
>
>-- Brett
>bfish@sequent.com


     The series is by Steve Perry and published by ACE books.  The titles in
order are:  The Man Who Never Missed
            Matadora
            The Machiavelli Interface

The are more books to the series, a prequel titled The 97th Step and what I
believe is another trilogy of which two have already been published.  These
two are:  The Albino Knife and Black Steel.

     Hope this helps
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* lewis@wixer.cactus.org      |if you're looking for adventure of a new and
* oglewis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  |different kind  and you come across a Girl Scout
*                             |who is similarly inclined....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn)
Subject: Re: Gene Wolfe: The Soldier series
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:50:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.011632.23782@cs.cornell.edu> rvinluan@cs.cornell.edu (Rolando Vinluan) writes:
>	2) I don't have the first book, and the second
>doesn't come with a map, so can somebody help me with
>the modern names of the places? Rope is Sparta, Thrace
>is well, Thrace. But Hill, Tower Hill, Sestos, Nestos,
>Cowland...HELP!?!?

The only one I remember is that Thought is Athens.  The
first book doesn't have a map either.  And knowing
Greek wouldn't help, because Latro gets some of the names
wrong (I rememebr Wolfe saying, for example, that he
mistranslates Athens as Thought)

>	3) Is this the third book out yet? I don't think
>it's in paperback, but in hardcover?

There may not be a third book.  Wolfe says he just plans
to write them whenver he feels the interest.  They're
going to be a kind of walking tour of ancient Greece.

>	4) Who else besides me likes this series better than
>the New Sun series (though honestly, I haven't read 
>"Urth of the New Sun" yet).

It's a tough call...I liked this series better the first time I
read it.  However, I just re-read the Book of the New Sun 
last summer, and enjoyed it more than I had before.  Now I'll
have to re-read _Soldier of the Mists_ to find out :-).

Gavin Steyn
steyn@cs.rochester.edu
"There are times, Jeeves, when one wonders, 'Do pants really matter?'"
From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:49:25 GMT
Subject: Re: The Keltiad (Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

In article ... qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:

   [Context ... The Keltiad]
   Her use of words also annoyed me no end. "Troublous" and "any road". Hah!

I don't know about "Troublous", but "any road" is a phrase used by by
Derbyshire in-laws (not so much by my partner) with, unsurprisingly, the same
meaning as "anyway". [Is the space yours or the authors?]
--

Regards,    | ``"I can't suit myself," said Weinbaum, a little petulantly.
Kers.       | "I work for the Government".'' - Blish, "The Quincunx of Time".