From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:20:18 GMT

cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:

>In article <thaaang.726492026@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>Thank you, Caroline. I have one, question, though; is it wrong for
>>someone to have been initially attracted to you because of your
>>race and the connotations it has been given if they have since found
>>other, more substantial reasons to love you, and your race is no
>>longer the factor it once was? How does being attracted to someone
>>for their race differ from being attracted to someone for other
>>physical features?

>I am not sure "wrong" and "right" are the terms I've been thinking in
>here, so this may be a roundabout answer to your question:

>The difference for me, between being attracted to someone for their
>race and being attracted to them for, say their mustache or their
>bubble butt, is that race carries a lot of associations, stereotypes,
>and other baggage that many other physical features do not.  Race is a
>loaded category in our society.

Agreed. But then, when you listen to someone talk about large appendages
or facial hair or bubble butts, you may find that such things also carry
a lot of baggage. Big dicks mean power and things like that, facial hair
means virility and 'manliness', etc. So how do such preconceptions differ
from those held about race?

>You speak of someone being attracted to me becuase of my race and
>because of its connotations.  Let's run through some of the
>better-known connotations of "Asianness" here: Exotic, Other, Passive,
>Flower/Blossom, traditional obedient female (rather than liberated
>feminist), or, in the case of gay men, submissive.  Not going to be
>rebellious--the model minority, after all.  

Yes. But what if, when someone first sees you, they have all that
stuff called up, but in their very first conversation with you all
of these things (which they knew weren't realistic anyway) are
dispelled and they can continue getting to know you as a person,
rather than as an Asian? I'm not saying that there aren't cases
where this kind of stereotyping will happen, because there are
lots of stupid people, but... Is it wrong for someone to know the
societally-endowed notions about a race if they know it's all bull?
Is it possible for someone to discount them?

>When a person makes assumptions about me based on my race, and associations
>that they carry about my race, I find it demeaning and hurtful, and yes,
>it's racist. It's true that they can work past the baggage that they carry,
>but personally, I don't care to help them work through it, not as a lover
>at least.

I agree that it's racist to take stock in class generalizations, but
I don't think it's so pervasive that interracial relationships are
greatly disadvantaged because of it.

>The other possibility is that I will be seen as some kind of cultural
>resource for people who are "really into" Asian cultures and the
>"exoticism" of it, and that they will try to use me to immerse
>themselves in it because they think it's cool.  More generally, there
>are white people who are into people of color and the cultures of
>people of color, and try to use people of color to "colorize" their
>lives--put a little or a lot of ethnic "spice" in their lives.  I
>think this is just as objectifying.

I agree that if someone were to use you for their Orogami fix or
something it would be pretty dehumanizing, but what if you were
friends anyway, and sometimes discussed Asian culture simply
because it was a subject that both of you were interested in? Is
that wrong?

And please, have some pity! American culture is all about Big Macs
and pollution. Can you blame a white person for looking for some-
thing more interesting?

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+