HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: locher@IASTATE.EDU (Robert C Locher)
Subject: tender fingers
Reply-To: locher@IASTATE.EDU (Robert C Locher)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:54:58 GMT


I'm very much a beginner at archery.  I went out and bought an old recurve bow
for $50 a while ago, and I've been taking barebow pot shots at Coke cans at 40
yards, with some success.

My problem is that when I shoot daily, my fingers, the middle one especially,
get really sore.  It gets so bad I can only shoot about 40 before the pain makes
me quit.  I think it happens because the string slides on my tab, so only the
pressure is transmitted, and not the friction;  if the friction were also
transmitted, I would at least get a callus.  How did the longbowmen of old deal
with it?

My bow has about 50 lbs. of draw.  I use a three-fingered grip with a tab. 

Thanks in advance for your help.

				- Rob
From: kuraishi@athena.mit.edu (Takeo Kuraishi)
Subject: Re: several previous queries.....
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:08:15 GMT

Gabe Tang writes...

	However, there is a school of thought that supports an "active" or
	even aggressive approach to shot mechanics. That is, while following
	all the standard mechanics of the "pull-through" style, in addition,
	proposes that the use of the bow arm be directed to push toward the
	target.....

Just felt I might comment on this subject since it came up. Basically, I
feel that this slight push is necessary. My reasoning behind this is, not only
is it easier to shoot that way, but it also help you avoid relaxing your
muscle tension before you shoot.

When you shoot with clicker, and you are using a bow that is just a bit heavy
for you, something that happens quite often is, upon hearing (or feeling) the
click, the mind reacts faster than your finger, causing the muscle in the
pushing arm to relax just a bit, before the string slips out of your finger. 
This usually cause the bow to move slightly to the right of the target, if
you are right handed. In some cases, the arm starts going down before the
arrow has cleared the bow. Putting that slight push would not change how
your body reacts, but it does seem to lessen this movement.

I have alway felt that the force in the pushing arm and pulling arm must be
more or less equal. The actual motion of the arms would be quite different,
but as you shoot, the body should not sway either toward or away from the target.
What I do is to try to keep my thumb and first finger pointed toward the target.
Just thinking about keeping them extended puts enough force in the pushing arm,
and to keep pushing instead of loosening the muscle as you release the string. 
Also, I try to move my bow forward as well as sideways when aiming to keep
myself from shortening my draw length.

Describing how you think your body is acting when you are shooting is not
easy... I am quite interested in what other people feel is the proper way to
shoot.

Takeo Kuraishi

	If anyone from U-Tokyo is reading this...
	I expect you to win the next match with Waseda. Unbelievable that you
	had lost the first match !!!
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bart2250@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Bartelt)
Subject: slings
Originator: bart2250@miller.cs.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 06:56:26 GMT

I recently purchased a new bow. I've begun to shoot with a bow sling on the
advice of a local pro. I had a tendency to hold my bow ham fisted and this
would fatigue my forearm after several rounds of arrows. He suggested
trying to use the sling so I did. My question is...My bow tends to dip forward
after the shot, not so much as I have to literally catch the bow but it is
noticeable. I previously shot with a hunting stabilizer (9 inch extension)
but with the addition of the bow sling and it's mounting harware, I've
removed the extension bar and just screwed the weight into the sling hardware
which gives about 2 inches of extension to the weight. I never noticed this
rotation when I didn't use the sling but now that I've loosened my grip, it
has become obvious. Should I get rid of the weight, go to a lighter weight, or
is there a stabilizer setup that will allow me to move the bows' center of
gravity more in line with the riser?


						Paul Bartelt
                                                UW - MILWAUKEE
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Form question
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:31:24 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <1992Apr9.185313.2996@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) writes:
> I finally got to see a videotape of me shooting. I noticed that at full draw,
> my elbow is several inches (3-4) above the line of the arrow. I have
> suspected this was the case for a long time because I end up with a serious
> callous on the pad of my third finger but not the other two. Should I try to
> alter my form?

In my opinion, DONT TOUCH IT! 3-4 inches is not much of a difference. Have a
look at videtape of Allen Rasor (a USA Junior) sometime if you want to see
what a high elbow is. He shoots pretty well with it.

The callous could be due to other causes, such as the difference in length of
your fingers (I shoot with a two finger loose now, because my third finger
never wrapped around the string properly, and just dragged on the string,
causing big callouses). If it feels like you're getting the rear elbow in line
with the arrow, I wouldn't worry.

> Is this sort of misalignment really a problem or potential problem?

If you're relying on the arm muscles to draw rather than the shoulder and back
muscles, it is. Otherwise, don't worry.

> Or am I just trying to borrow trouble?

Quite possibly.

(All IMNSHO, of course.)

a.
-- 
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.
University of Edinburgh, JCMB,			| JANET:  ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs
The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road,		| VOICE:  (UK) 031 650 5126
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	     | OR: ajcd%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul Scott Bartelt)
Subject: many thanks
Originator: leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 05:36:38 GMT


If any of the advice you've all been giving me pays off next fall,
Bambi does'nt stand a chance.

I would like to try some competetive shooting sooner or later. Does
anybody  out there fare well with a hunting compound. Are there
leagues for  hunting archers?

To the guy who wants to break 300fps.... Buy a 30-30 lever action. I
shoot around 280-290 and to me that's 'screamin enuff'. 

						Paul Scott Bartelt
						UW - MILWAUKEE


BO knows archery, too. Maybe there is life after baseball.
From: kenneth@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Broken Crossbow
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:18:08 GMT

Hi, all.
My crossbow is broken, and I need to get it fixed.  The problem is with the
trigger mechanism -- it doesn't hold the string back and cock like its 
supposed to.  I don't remember the brand name, as its in S.C., and I'm in
AL right now.  It's a 150 lbs. draw weight.  Anyway, if anyone has info
on locations, approx. prices, etc., please e-mail or post.  Thanks.

Ken
From: hb0s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Heather L. Broud)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: beginner seeks advice
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:32:44 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


I'm looking for advice on which kind and brand of long bow to purchase. 
I am a little over five feet tall, and strong for my size.  I don't plan
to compete.  I'm looking for a reliable and sturdy bow.  Thanks.
--- Heather
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: forbesmc@matai.vuw.ac.nz (Murray Forbes)
Subject: Reducing vibrations - was Re : British Uni archery
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: 	Victoria University of Wellington,  NZ
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:38:08 GMT

> It seems to me that there must be some vibration of the bow after the arrow
> is well on its way. I can not feel any such vibration but added an 
> extra stabaliser to try and reduce it. If you know of a better way please
> let me know.
> 
> 	Mike Judd.
Yes, there is always some vibration of the bow after the arrow has
left the bow.
This can be reduced in a few ways. The most important is to have 
your bow well tuned to your arrows and shooting style ie the 
position of the nocking point and your berger button should have
been carefully adjusted in the standard ways.
The bracing height of your also affects the amount of vibration
(how 'quiet' your bow is) with a larger bracing height giving a
more stable and quieter bow. Unfortunately it also gives a slower
shoot (ie less arrow speed) - like most things in archery, you
have to find a compromise acceptable to yourself.

Adding more stablisers only slightly reduces the bow vibration 
(it reduces the amount the bow jumps or turns upon release).
This is were the (badly named) TFC's come in. These
(Torque Flight Compensator's) are basically shock absorbers
mounted between your bow and a stabliser and absorb the vibrations
are they travel from your bow to the stablisers. These must also be
tuned for the best shock absorption by either making them stiffer
or looser.

NB : don't try to use a TFC between your bow and a poker (long
stabliser - typically 30") - the TFC can NOT be made stiff enough
to work with a poker.

Murray Forbes,
Coaching Supervisor,
Randwick Archery Club.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| I'm a toxophilite,         | Murray Forbes,                      |
| so what's your problem?    | Physics Department,                 |
|----------------------------| Victoria University of Wellington,  |
| standard disclaimer :      | New Zealand.                        |
| all opinions here are mine | FORBESMC@MATAI.VUW.AC.NZ            |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mj@crosfield.co.uk (mike judd)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: British Uni archery
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:31:27 GMT
Reply-To: mj@crosfield.co.uk (mike judd)
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <31154@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan) writes:
>In article <13440@suns2.crosfield.co.uk>, mj@crosfield.co.uk (mike judd) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr2.124551.11358@eng.cam.ac.uk> sgb@eng.cam.ac.uk (S.G. Baines) writes:
>> >		How does the Stylist bow shoot?
>> 
>> 	I shoot a stylist bow with beman arrows. This combination is
>> 	very fast and I would not recomend it to someone new to shooting.
>> 	I use it for target archery and find it a nice bow to use but
>> 	it doesgo with a bit of bang which may upset some archers.
>
>This does surprise me. I've only tried a stylist briefly, but everybody that
>I've talked to about it (including Steve Hallard) says that it is designed for
>stability, not speed. The draw is certainly very smooth, and it doesn't seem
>very fast. Most of the stylists I've seen have been quite quiet too.
>

Angus

I agree with you that the Stylist bow is very smooth and stable which is
why i bought one but there does seem to be a significant amount of noise
from the bow on completion of the shot and anything on the bow which
is not screwed on very tightly occasionally shakes loose. This is a problem
if it is the sight ( I only have a relatively inexpensive one ).

It seems to me that there must be some vibration of the bow after the arrow
is well on its way. I can not feel any such vibration but added an 
extra stabaliser to try and reduce it. If you know of a better way please
let me know.

The speed  I mentioned is based on the hight of the arc of the arrow
compared to those of others.It seems to be one of the lowest.

	Mike Judd.
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: toomer@CS.ColoState.EDU (christopher toomer)
Subject: RE: REC.HUNTING
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:55:35 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

Hi everybody,
  I have noticed some queries in rec.hunting lately about archery.  I
  guess not all sights get all the newsgroups.  Rec.hunting is moderated.
  For those of you unfamiliar with this, it means someone reads the
  messages before they are posted so the net isn't cluttered with insig-
  nificant garbage.  I would like to suggest cross posting to rec.hunting
  if you can so the interested archers who read that can get some archery
  news.  Just a thought.

  If you don't like this idea, don't do it.  I'm not interested in dozens
  of personal opinions e-mailed to me on why this is a bad idea.  Thanks.

  christoomer@cs.ColoState.edu
  ignore that

  chris
  toomer@cs.ColoState.edu
From: roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Sights, etc.
Date: 9 Apr 92 11:58:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia


        Anyone use a "Sightmaster" bow sight?? It has just one sight pin 
that you adjust with a control arm OR you can BUY the Touchmaster
fingertip control. 
        There seems to be a few of the fellows using them......just curious.
oh, and Rope Releases....does any one hunt with a rope release?? and can
relate any positive or negative stories...

thanks

bob
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: xxmills@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Christine Mills)
Subject: shooting while pregnant
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:25:10 GMT

This is a question for the women archers out there, so men may skip
this if they wish.  My question may seem a little obvious, but I ask
because I've seen pregnant women trying to shoot, and it looks
terribly awkward to me.  I'm wondering if I should even bother taking
my bow out.  I have a plain recurve, no compound, no sights.  Have
other women found they can still shoot when pregnant, or does the baby
just get in the way too much?  (I'm not even showing yet, so this is
a future reference question).

Christine Mills
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Worn out ACEs
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:36:23 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <1992Apr7.232217.13111@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez) writes:
> Just out of curiosity how do you wear ACE's?

Three ways I've done:

1) Shooting them into tight bosses. Indoor shooting is worst for this. The
resin and matting section at the front gets worn away by friction, and then
the front part of the shaft starts to wear away, making them weaker. They also
tune differently in this state compared to new arrows. My old set had approx
1mm of carbon worn off them.

2) Shooting tight groups. The arrows wobble around dramatically when they hit
the boss, rattle against each other and can crack the carbon. (Anyone else
seen the Easton or Beiter slow motion films? Makes me quesy just thinking
about it.) Again, especially bad if you shoot them indoors.

3) Shooting down the back of them, or through the side. A quick way of wearing
the arrow out! ACEs are particularily critical at the nock end; I've got a
couple which were hit just hard enough to crack the carbon-aluminium bond at
the nock end, without chipping it, and they spiraled badly in flight after
that. You can use superglue to make them usable, but they aren't good enough
for competition anymore.

I've also broken them by shooting into brand new JVD bosses indoors. These
bosses are extremely hard, and when the arrow goes in, it wobbles enough to
snap itself off just behind the insert.

a.
-- 
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.
University of Edinburgh, JCMB,			| JANET:  ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs
The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road,		| VOICE:  (UK) 031 650 5126
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	     | OR: ajcd%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: dasaxe@milton.u.washington.edu (Daniel Perreault)
Subject: Re: tender fingers
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:47:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.125458@IASTATE.EDU> locher@IASTATE.EDU (Robert C Locher) writes:
>
>I'm very much a beginner at archery.  I went out and bought an old recurve bow
>for $50 a while ago, and I've been taking barebow pot shots at Coke cans at 40
>yards, with some success.
>
>My problem is that when I shoot daily, my fingers, the middle one especially,
>get really sore.  It gets so bad I can only shoot about 40 before the pain makes
>me quit.  I think it happens because the string slides on my tab, so only the
>pressure is transmitted, and not the friction;  if the friction were also
>transmitted, I would at least get a callus.  How did the longbowmen of old deal
>with it?
>
>My bow has about 50 lbs. of draw.  I use a three-fingered grip with a tab.
>
>Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>                               - Rob

You may have been taught to shoot with the string sitting on the pads of your
fingers. This technique was (and probably still is) being taught for quite a
while. The problem is that the soft pad of your finger has a high density of
nerves in it, and repeated abuse with a string traumatizes them in some people.
You have two possible solutions:

1) Buy a thicker finger tab. The frction is probably not what is getting you,
   and a thicker tab may help you releive some of the pain because it provides
   better protection. If you feel like it friction is the problem, you can
   go to a good glove type tab which will rub on your fingers less.

2) Put the string in your first knuckle when you draw. This is how I shoot
   and it works pretty well for me. The joint is better able to accept stress,
   because the density of nerves in the bending part of your joint are less
   than in the pad. Further you are resting more directly on bone, rather  
   than muscle, so the feeling is less.

Their maybe other things you can try, but these are the ones I have used
and have had success with.



Dan Perreault
"Its time to move out of the stone age, I want to break 300fps with a 400grain
 arrow and my broadheads."
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Long Bows
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:17:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <1992Apr7.211557.20520@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) writes:
> I have long been curious about this, I have seen others do it and I 
> always wonder why they don't end up with fletch-cuts in their bow hand. 
> I used to screw up my release sometimes in such a way that my left 
> knuckle got hit by the fletches, I usually bled. I have not tried 
> _intentionally_ shooting off my finger, is there something special 
> you have to do?

Most of the long bow archers I've seen use a glove...

a.
-- 
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.
University of Edinburgh, JCMB,			| JANET:  ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs
The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road,		| VOICE:  (UK) 031 650 5126
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	     | OR: ajcd%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: toomer@CS.ColoState.EDU (christopher toomer)
Subject: RE: SLINGS
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 05:40:28 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>>Paul Bartelt writes:

>>I recently purchased a new bow. I've begun to shoot with a bow sling 
>>on the advice of a local pro. I had a tendency to hold my bow ham 
>>fisted and this would fatigue my forearm after several rounds of 
>>arrows. He suggested trying to use the sling so I did. My question 
>>is...My bow tends to dip forward after the shot, not so much as I 
>>have to literally catch the bow but it is noticeable.
>>stuff deleted.....
  
  >Bryan Rowland writes:
  >Actually, you *want* the bow to continue forward (and dip forward) after
  >the shot.  After the shot, the energy and momentum are going forward away
  >from the bow.  The bow *should* also move forward and "dip".  As long as
  >the stabilizer isn't so heavy that the bow seems very "nose heavy", you
  >are fine.
  >stuff deleted.....

  I agree with Bryan.  Don't worry about it.  I suspect that the bow doesn't
  begin to 'fall' until after the arrow has left.  While you are at full 
  draw your pulling back on the string holds the bow against your palm.

  As far as stabilizers go, I find my bow seems more balanced with one
  attached.  It is also quieter.  This is no doubt due to the extra mass
  the stabilizer provides to absorb vibrations after the shot.

  chris
  toomer@cs.ColoState.edu

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan K Biocca)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Sights, etc.
Date: 9 Apr 1992 21:32:19 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.192.16

In article <1992Apr9.115857.8874@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson) writes:

>        Anyone use a "Sightmaster" bow sight?? It has just one sight pin 
>that you adjust with a control arm OR you can BUY the Touchmaster
>fingertip control. 
>        There seems to be a few of the fellows using them......just curious.

I started using a Sightmaster and Touchmaster last season on my PSE FireFlite
set at 70 lbs.  With my hunting 2217's I've shot a number of 5" 50 yard
groups with the setup.  I've also been able to adjust and calibrate it to
handle the range 10-80 yards.  I'm using an inexpensive ball-bearing type
release, I think it is called the trophy pro hunter, or something like that.
I like the system, and see evidence that it is capable of groups half the size
I'm getting -- or less -- I'm just not that steady.  The Touchmaster limits
the range of adjustment slightly, but for hunting is a must.

Alan K Biocca
From: dean@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Dean Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Neophyte seeks direction
Keywords: Help
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:59:16 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications


 Hello Richard,

	If you are thinking of buying a recurve bow then I expect that
you will need a 70" bow, for a draw length of over 28.5". As to
poundage I would recommend about 36lbs @ 28", as you need to add about
2lbs for every inch you draw past the 28" mark. This will give you
about 38 - 40 lbs on your fingers.
	As a cheap bow for your first few years of shooting then I can
recommend a bow marketed as a 'whirlwind' and other names in Britain.
This is a Korean bow (who else) which shoots quite well. It is
distributed by Spigarelli of Italy as far as I know.

	As to Compounds I cannot help you much but I do know that if
you are intending to shoot it with a finger release then you may find
problems due to the very acute string angle at full draw.

	Hope this is of some help, and keep us all informed of your
progress, there is a lot of experience out here so don't be afraid to
ask.

	Your Dean Holmes.
From: jaspiegel@apollo
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Long Bows
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:47:13 GMT
Reply-To: jaspiegel@apollo
Organization: Davidson College, Davidson, NC

I am looking for a company that makes English longbows.   This sounds simple
enough right?   The problem is that I want one without the arrow rest.   I 
grew up shooting with a forty year old bow that my grandfather made for me 
and I have gotten spoiled with it.   I feel that I have more control of the
flight of the arrow when it is resting on my hand.

I have tried several custom bow organizations, but the price is just too 
prohibative.   Thanks for whatever help you all can give.


				Jay Spiegel

				Davidson College, North Carolina, USA