From: nguyen@drutx.ATT.COM (Christopher Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: [EDU] The Academic Path in Medicine Science
Summary: We can't compare apples and oranges. But, what are they?
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:30:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Denver, Colorado


Dear Viet Anh Nguyen,
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| -------------------- begin forwarded post 14322 [#1] --------------------- |
| From: v-nguyen@cis.ohio-state.edu (Viet-Anh V Nguyen)                      |
| Subject: Re: [EDU] The Academic Path in Medicine Science                   |
| Summary: Apples and oranges can't be compared!                             |
| Date: 20 Jul 92 19:52:25 GMT                                               |
| Sender: news@cis.ohio-state.edu (NETnews        )                          |
|                                                                            |
| In article <18412@drutx.ATT.COM> nguyen@drutx.ATT.COM (Christopher Chu)    |
| wrote:                                                                     |
|                                                                            |
| [ ... Deleted Stuffs ... ]                                                 |
|                                                                            |
| No, I'm talking about the regular medical board exam, not the ECFMG. I     |
| think there is a limit (recently adopted) on the effectiveness of the      |
| board license, but I can't be sure.                                        |
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That is fine. I have missed you question :-) For your current question,
please make clear which board license you were referring to. I guess that
while making yourself clearer, you may be able to find the answer to your
question by yourself. If you still don't, please mail me privately and I'll
try to find a formally sufficient answer for you.
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| >Again, for the above comparison to make sense, it is important to note    |
| >that a resident physician maintains a degree of training that is          |
| >equivalent to any PhD (e.g., they are all doctors.)                       |
|                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                         |
| Yes, EXCEPT that a resident physician is NOT required to write a           |
| dissertation. Before beginning his/her residency, he/she does not have to  |
| make any "original contribution to human knowledge" in his/her specialty.  |
| :) Again, it is not a fair comparison. You're comparing apples and oranges |
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First, it is clearly not wise to take the type of work to produce a PhD
dissertation as the standard metric to measure the human intellectual ability.
Second, it is very naive to generalize that that only the PhD's but not the
MD's has "original contribution to human knowledge". You see, comparing the
*type* of intellectual work people perform/achieve from two different
sciences is exactly what you have thought of as apple-orange comparison.

I would also like to direct your attention to this very fundamental point:
it is not accidental that the PhD's. and MD's are all called doctors.
You should understand that the academic communities in the very various
sciences and disciplines are sophisticated enough to realize the significance
of a doctorate and the standard level of intellectual training and
achievement such a degree must reflect. I think it is important for you to
really understand this fundamental but common sense before we can go any
further in this discussion.
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| >Also, please not that professional engineering (PE) license ...           |
| >... or the likes do not represent a mark of an American formal            |
| >professional training program completion like the American national       |
| >medical board of a medicine specialty.                                    |
|                                                                            |
| Actually, the idea that goes behind the PE license is pretty much SIMILAR  |
| to that of the medical board license - an incompetent bridge designer, for |
| instance, could kill as many, if not more, people as an imcompetent        |
| doctor. Before an engineer is allowed to take a PE exam, he/she has to     |
| pass an FE exam, which focuses on basic engineering concepts, and then     |
| begins an intern- ship, during which he/she has to complete four years of  |
| work as an engineer. Admittedly, the training for a PE may not be as       |
| rigorous. But then again, you're comparing apples and oranges!             |
|                                                                            |
| Vietanh Nguyen                                                             |
| --------------------- end forwarded post 14322 [#1] ---------------------- |
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I am not sure if we have the same definition of "an American formal
professional training program." Neither am I sure you are following me at
the same wave length from the discussion that I originated.

First, please understand that the level of the academic preparation required
for the PE exam is nowhere near the formal training level of a person who
already holds a doctoral degree and who is ready for a medical specialty
training program.

Second, the analogy concerning individual professional accountability for
human safety of a MD versus a chief-of-staff civil engineer or architect
who probably have 100 of people working under him/her is clearly not
appropriate. Both of the analogies you have stated were not only examples
of apple-orange comparsions but also grape-to-grape-fruit ones.

Finally, I think the consolidation of sophisticated branches of complex
knowledge within a science to provide specialization training for
well-established sub-fields that go beyond the university doctorate
demonstrates the maturity of such science in the academia. In this
response, it is not my intention to argue against your confusing apple-orange
comparisons but is only my opinion that medicine science has gone far beyond
most of the others with respect to formal professional training program.

Sincerely Yours,

Chris Chu, nguyen@drutx.ATT.COM (Internet), att!drutx!nguyen (UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese