HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:28:52 GMT

In article <23605@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.123534.19658@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>
>>  Notice nothing said by Mr. Jackson about "race war".  Mr. Jackson
>>  is demanding equal treatment, plain and simple.  Unless the Whites
>>  can't give and receive equal treatment without a race war.  Hmmm...
>Mr. Jackson has repeatedly suggested that blacks and other "races"
>should band together for the express purpose of *taking* power from
>whites.  Sharing has NOT been suggested.  Mr. Jackson has repeatedly
>said that he does not endorse any dealings whatsoever with whites,
>and that such dealings are "selling out".  Mr. Jackson has made it clear
>that he expouses that whites should be shut out of any dealings with
>anyone other than whites, in every way, shape, and form.
>
>That, in and of itself, is a call for rebellion and war, on a strictly
>racial basis.  WHy do you claim otherwise?
>-- 
> Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
>   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
> Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
> Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.

Actually I have seen that by not sharing power, you get alot of angery 
people. All you have to do is read a history book about how this 
country was stolen and you'll see what I am talking about. To me "selling-out"
is only achieved when the "minority" starts to beleive the garbage that 
many whites expouse. For example whites are looked upon as being:

1. Smarter than Afams.
2. More "civil" than AfAms.
3. White neighborhoods are better than AfAms.
4. Whites are better looking than any minority group, in general.
5. White universities are better than black colleges.
6. To be around whites makes you a more "rounded" person.
etc...etc...
What I want is to have MY people be respected for being who we are not
what you want me to be so that you'll be more comfortable.
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:27:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep3.162735.28190
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep3.053658.12353@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.153221.12938@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>>	Because he is Asian American.
>Gee, I must admit I am a bit fuzzy on this Asian American bit.  Just
>what exactly makes one an Asian American?

	Gee, I just went and said it.  Sociologically and culturally the product
of Asian groups living in America.

	Notice, this does NOT mean that there have to be "Asian cultural
influences." It merely means there are common effects from being perceived as
Asian in America.
-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 3 Sep 92 03:45:50 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep1.201332.27899@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  Don't be naive.  Each country reserves political power to
>  its own citizens.

But I am a citizen of the United States, and my vote counts just as
much as your vote.  There may be people that are bothered by the
concept of someone who thinks of themselves as Chinese, voting in an
American election.  There's not much they can do.  My citizenship is
guaranteed by the 14th amendment and my right to vote by a judicial
system that doesn't much care if I think of myself as Chinese,
African, or Martian.

I guess they'll just have to be nice to me, so that I'll have no
objection to thinking of myself as an American.  (And in general,
Americans have been nice to me, so I don't mind at all being an
American as well as being Chinese.  Things would probably be different
if I grew up in Indonesia, let's say.)
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Rising Sun: Yelling "Fire!" in Crowded Theater?
Date: 27 Aug 1992 19:25:07 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

Related to the movie "Rising Sun",
<l9q7mgINNeur@male.EBay.Sun.COM> tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM writes:

>Again we are back to that same old bugger: Moral Responsibility vs. Freedom of Speech
>
>I am all for free expression and free speech. But when I know or suspect that
>what I say may be too socially volatile or controversial for certain members 
>of society to interpret or deal with reasonably--then I hold it back.
>
>Remember the old Oliver Wendell Holmes principle: Free Speech does not apply to
>those yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie house?
>

(clip, clip)

>
>A Japan-Bashing Movie on the other hand could have a more instantaneous impact--
>which I don't want to think about.
>
>Movies are accessible for a larger audience--many of which are
>less critical, many of which could be younger and more impressionable,

I remember a movie I saw while on a business trip a year or so back
with Michael Douglas as a New York cop who goes to Japan and gets 
tangled up with the yakuza (forgot the title).  There were a lot 
of bizarre scenes - men cutting off their own finger, Douglas' buddy 
getting decapitated by a samurai-wielding yakuza on a motorcycle, 
unfeeling Japanese police officials who don't comprehend Douglas' 
need for revenge, machine gun battles through the rice fields, etc.

I know it was just a movie, but what effect will an accumulation of
such images have on an American audience with a limited knowldege of 
Japan  ?

Joe Huang
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Liar among us
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:56:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware

Dwight Joe accused me of using racial slur jap against him in two separate
occasions as follows in the net and I challenged him to produce evidence 
and I am still waiting.  In no ocasion I used any racial slur to any netter.

In article <1992Aug18.184613.1235@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>I first "met" Mr. Shin about 3 years ago on s.c.korean.  At the time,
>I pointed out that
> ...
>Shortly thereafter, Mr. Shin called me a "Jap" and a "Jap wanna-be".

3 years ago put us around 1989.  I want to see electronic address from
where I supposedly used racial slur jap against Dwight Joe.  Here's the 
news to you, Dwight Joe: guess where I was 3 years ago, in 1989.  I dug 
out my former employer's address and phone number to show it if needed.
You Dwight Joe better guess it good.  Why not change the time frame,
Dwight Joe, I got more surprises for you if I ever see anything from you
in the net.

>There was a hiatus in my postings, but after I resumed posting
>in 1992, Mr. Shin appeared.  I had mentioned the word "Korea"
> ...
>Anyhow, after Mr. Shin appeared again, he called me a "Jap" and
>a "Jap wanna-be", again.

Remember a case of a girl in New York state who smeared herself with 
excrements and accused some men have abducted her (the one in which Al 
Sharpton came forward to protest racial bias stuff in police investigation) 
but the case state special prosecutor later dismissed as being a 
fabrication by same girl?  Exactly case of Dwight Joe: he smears himself 
with racial slur jap and falsely accuses other person.  Dwight Joe, you 
are a liar, unless of course, I see some evidence of alleged incident.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Keywords: Michael Jordan,  Leprosy
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:45:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.072030.10695@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>[This is a rather belated reply to joe's article.  I apologize if I confuse
>anyone by dredging up this old subject.]
>
	[Bryan and Joe's start of this thread deleted.]
	[Gary's deeply moving account of mother with "lost" Asian-American
	 son, with no sense Chinese culture, who even ate noodles with
	 a fork, despite being intelligent, earnest and interested in
	 Asian American studies deleted for brevity.]
>
>I couldn't help but think about that kid on my drive back to work though.
>And my initial reaction of disdain and dismissal turned to pity.  You
>see, that young man is emphatically non-Chinese.  He is American and
>absolutely nothing else.  Why does he care so about the Asian American
>cause?  There seems to be nothing Asian about him.  Is it because when
>others look at him, they see yellow skin and black hair?  It must be a
>difficult and sad life indeed to be defined by what others see in him.
>
>-- 
>Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
>(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
>				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.

Note that the kid was interested in Asian *American* studies, a discipline
devoted to the Americans of Asian ancestry, as opposed to Asian studies,
a discipline devoted to a continent on the other side of the planet.
This distinction is apparently subtle to many people.  The "Asian
American cause" is not about preserving Asian culture.  It's not about
learning to use chopsticks and speaking Cantonese.  It *is* about what
it means to be an American, when America denies you exist.  It *is* about
trying to correct centuries of social injustice.  It *is* about creating
a stable and secure life in our homeland, the USA, for those of us whom
the US doesn't always feel like including.  It is precisely because this
boy has "nothing Asian about him", despite the massive stereotyping in the
US to the countrary, that makes Asian American studies so relevant.

Is it a difficult and sad life to be defined by what others see?
Yes.  And that's why we're trying to change things.

						--Alan Hu
From: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM (Tony Ooka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Krawalle in Rostock Deutschland
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:50:41 GMT
Reply-To: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com

Hi,

Unfortunately I just read on the German culture net that 
there was just an incident in Rostock (N. Germany) involving
about 100 Vietnamese refugees.

My German is not perfect but quite competent. I understand
neo-Nazis stormed a refugee house with about 100 refugees,
as well as some German families and a German news team
inside.

The building was ignited and burned. There were no deaths
reported but there were some injuries. Many "bystanders" were
seen to show sympathy for the arsonists and some (netters)
felt the police were suspiciously passive and slow to 
react to the incident.

Many of the German news netters were outraged to hear
the opinions of a few local politicians. One politician
said, (my translation): "Yes of course the violence is
terrible but I can also understand the feelings of those
who were involved (ie arsonists)"

I understand Germany, especially in the former E. German states,
has a serious unemployment problem brought about by the
transition to a unified market economy. Many of the former
E. Germans and even some W. Germans feel their country
has too generous asylum rules for foreigners and that
their needs as Germans are being displaced.

In mid-September I'll be going to Bremen, Hamburg, and
Berlin to visit some friends and make new acquaintances.
However, I will have to be especially careful since
I am obviously not Aryan--I am Asian-American. 

How things have changed in Germany since I last visited Cologne
and Rheinland-Pfalz where I had such a good time and
made many friends...

I have great respect for German culture and institutions
but now as in my own country--the U.S.--I guess I have 
to reckon with racist aspects of an otherwise beautiful
place.

-Tony

Manchmal liege ich nachts auf dem Bett denkend: "Ja. 1992. South Central L.A.--
und jetzt Rostock. Werde ich eigentlich bis zu meinem dreissigsten Geburtstag leben--
da es so viele gute Menschen in der Welt gibt?" 
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: trieu@me.utoronto.ca (Trieu C. Chau)
Subject: Re: studying chinese culture
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:58:21 GMT

leejs@aphrodite.ucsd.edu writes:

>hello! i would like to receive some input on the matter of studying one's
>own culture. i am a second generation chinese american. i have felt since
>i was a boy a need to understand what it really means to be chinese. 
>i can still remember wishing to attend chinese school as a boy because
> i never learned to
>speak chinese from my family.  my opportunity to study finally arrived
> here in college. the experience was great! i truly wish to understand more.

>however, i have rarely met any american-born chinese who seemed to express
>the kind of excitement from thinking about one's origins. 

I do!  I have always thought of studying Chinese as a good thing, because
I was always curious to find out what it means to be Chinese.  I guess
I was also trying to 'find myself', that is establish my own identity,
which is a harder thing to do in a Western country, if you're not part
of the majority.

I've always found acceptance among most people in terms of studying 
Chinese (language, history, etc.).  But as I said before, Canada seems
to have a ncouraging atmosphere in terms of preserving one's
culture/heritage.
-- 
=====================================================================
| Trieu Clinton Chau ~{VljKF=~}    | University of Toronto   ~{6`B[6`4sQ'~} |
| E-mail ~{5gWSSJV7~}:             | Electrical Engineering  ~{5gWS9$3LO5~} |
|    trieu@me.utoronto.ca      |                                    |
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:36:06 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug31.130508.3353@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  They've got to accept us for who and what we are. 

My problem is that it seems more difficult for AA activists to accept
"who I am" than it is for most white people I have met.  

>  For starters, Joe, even if you become accepted as White, can you guarantee
>  that your brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts and children
>  will receive the same treatment as you will?  I sort of doubt it.

Why not?  All it takes is a society that looks beyond the color of
one's skin, and one that regards Asian, African, or Hispanic as no
more relevant than Irish, Polish, or German.  Does that sound so
impossible?

>  If you can't even be proud of who you are, how can you expect anyone
>  else to respect you, since you don't respect yourself?  

You see.  This is the sort of thing that annoys the heck out of me.

I'm Chinese, and I'm completely unwilling to compromise on this fact.
If "the powers-that-be" asked me to give up the slightest bit of my
"Chineseness" in return for being a "American," I'd tell them to get
lost, because that's completely unacceptable to me.

The fact, however, is that I've never been in a recent situation in
which the establishment has asked me to stop being Chinese, and no
white person has recently challenged my identity.  (Again, this may be
because I stay in academic circles a lot, and people are more
broad-minded there.)

But I've been accused several times by AA activist of not respecting
myself and of not being proud of who I am.  As a result, I have found
myself defending my identity against AA activists more often than
defending against "the establishment."

Strange isn't it????????

>  I ask this of not just Joe Wang, but a lot of other Asian Americans 
>  who think that they can give up who they are and become someone they're not.

Wo shi mei-guo chu sheng de zhong guo ren.
Ni ne?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Subject: Re: The Chinese Community
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:23:06 GMT

In article <78802@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <BtnIw7.Esy@me.utoronto.ca> trieu@me.utoronto.ca (Trieu C. Chau) writes:
>>Recently, while having dim-sum brunch with some friends, someone (a parent)
>>stated that he didn't want to put the effort into educating his
>>children about their Chinese heritage, even though he himself wanted
>>them to preserve their 'roots'.  This was because he felt that even if
>>he were to put some effort into this cause, his children may not be able
>>to do the same for his grandchildren.  That is, he thinks that cultural
>>preservation is a lost cause.
>Actually, I think the situation will be quite different for our
>children because of technology.

	I think you're a tad naive.

	Socialization pressures, primarily from school and secondarily
from the media (hmmm....there's that technology), is pretty much going to
force acculturalization along the same lines as second generation
Nikkei and earlier Chinese. Children are just going to treat hi-tech force
feeding of Chinese culture here in America the same as they always did...


-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:05:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.011749.28005@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>In article <78524@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:

  [typical Joe Wang dreaming deleted]
>
>After reading this I was sad that this is the way you feel. As an African American, many of my people were optimistic about race relations with whites. But
>after centuries of whites hating us, that optimism has changed alot. To assimilate is WRONG. To assimilate means that you will TRY to become one of them but
>this is something you will NEVER achieve. This country was not founded on
>the same principles that it now holds dear. :) The whites in this country NEVER assimilated to the culture of the native americans nor did they assimilate
>to the various african cultures when they landed there. Even though you may
>say that this is the past, it still happens today. To want to become "white"
>isn't the way to go.
>     Why can't you be proud to be what you are. Whites are proud to be white.
>Why can't you be proud of who you are instead of trying to become the "them"
>that you speak of.   


  I suggest that Asian Americans are at least 50-100, if not 200 years
  behind African Americans in developing any sense of consciousness or
  pride.  African American found out the HARD way that they can't just
  blend in and pretend that they are part of the white majority.  There
  were free persons of African descent ever since the founding of the
  colonies, but that didn't mean these free persons were ever accepted
  as part of the white elite and didn't prevent their descendants from
  being Jim-Crowed or lynched.  African Americans have been here (in the
  Americas) ever since the first conquerors and have worked and labored
  to build this country, and many many have tried to "pass" and assimilate
  but for each one who does, countless more of their relatives and
  friends find the door slammed in their face.  

  They've got to accept us for who and what we are.  We need to demand
  a society where people are accepted and treated equally and fairly
  no matter where their ancestors came from or what their sex is or
  religious background.  It is no use to be the one person who sneaks
  into the power majority leaving the rest of the people out.  For
  starters, Joe, even if you become accepted as White, can you guarantee
  that your brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts and children
  will receive the same treatment as you will?  I sort of doubt it.

  If you can't even be proud of who you are, how can you expect anyone
  else to respect you, since you don't respect yourself?  I ask this
  of not just Joe Wang, but a lot of other Asian Americans who think that
  they can give up who they are and become someone they're not.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@cse.uta.edu (Laly Thao)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:11:04 GMT

In article <23565@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy from the mills) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.204612.29669@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>> Ha, ha, try and pin that one on me.  Go to Wilmington/Carson
>Hey?  I asked, yes?  I didn't TELL you, did I?
>
>No matter what, let me put it this way, you sound just like some
>of the nice white boys I dealt with in high school.
>
>I guess we don't need to discuss this any more, you don't belive a word
>of what I'm saying, and I'm tired of being called a damn liar.
		         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what???!!!  you liar!  :-)  just kidding.  :-)  in the midst of all 
these sparks flying across my screen, i thought i'd throw in my
share.  didn't want to get left out.

you guys can argue just about anything.  :-)  

laly thao
"notice no "ANTHONY MURTAGH" "
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Asian Cop Murders White Woman in Asian Chancellor's Home
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:55:51 GMT

In article <65066@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>Asian Cop Murders White Woman in Asian Chancellor's Home
>
>Craig Chew, an Asian Male Heterosexual policeman shot Laura Marie
>Miller, also known as Rosebud Abigail Denovo, in the home of the
>the Asian Male Chancellor of UC Berkeley, which had seized People's
>Park. Denovo, a white woman, sexual preference unknown, carried a
>machete, presumably to persuade the Chancellor to change University
>policy. Asian Americans compose over one-third of the student body
>at Berkeley, and are generally politically conservative and hostile to
>progressive causes.
>
><back to reality>
>
>Sounds pretty absurd? Is this any different than how the Rodney King
>case was handled? Heck, a band of merry protesters trashed cars and
>bulletin boards and windows to protest the death of this looney case
>as a martyr, and I'm demanding to know why they're not calling this
>a case of racism and sexism.

Huh?  Chew apparently acted appropriately, fighting a machete wielding
woman who jumped him in the bathroom.  In the Rodney King case, a
bunch of cops pounded on an unarmed guy who was trying to protect
his vital organs.

Are you unhappy with the protesters or Chew?  I can't tell.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu