HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:21:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Oct7.172141.29585
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <BvrADF.H97@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
writes:

>People who don't know who Marlene Dietrich is.

>Sheesh.

>You're all AI-scripts, aren't you?

Thank you, my sweet lad, for this remark.  It didn't
surprise me that the rotten apple (who can't even spell
Jezebel) wouldn't know the obvious, but you are the living
proof (and a divinely living poof, but let's not get off the
track) that it isn't a matter of age that our American tots
haven't a clue about Marlene.  Rather it's a matter of their
deficient cultural education.

I have a decent regard for Madonna, who's nobody's dummy,
but a person of the cultural stature of Dietrich she's not
very likely ever to be, nor even of the stature of Janis
Joplin, to pick someone in the music field.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Subject: MOTSS Fund/PAC
Summary: suggests motss PAC
Keywords: gay political action, PAC
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:48:16 GMT

The Economist for Oct 3-9 discusses an informal group of gays who meet
once a month in LA to "discuss...how they can put their money, and 
their friends' money, to use supporting political candidates."  The 
group known as ANGLE hopes to have raised $1.5m for Clinton by the 
election.  There seems to be little doubt that gay money donated for 
political purpose can have great effect.

With the amendment initiatives in Oregon and Colorado and their likely
mimicing in other jurisdictions, if not renaissance in the two 
original states, it appears that battles of this nature will not 
disappear.  Although there are certainly other organizations such as 
The Human Rights Campaign Fund, it is intriguing to consider a MOTSS 
fund.  Given the ongoing and extensive debates on soc.motss, it seems 
that an ideal forum exists for discussing projects that require 
funding.  Further, considering the large number who apparently follow 
motss and the likelihood that a preponderant number of them are 
sympathetic, the fund could be substantial.  Perhaps even $100 or so!

Admittedly, the mechanics for handling this are not thought out and 
may well be too complicated for practicality, but certainly there 
must be a sufficient number of the lawyerly persuasion and 
accountancy craft who could devise a suitable scheme for setting 
up such a fund as well as its administration.  The participatory 
nature of motss certainly could lead to some interesting applications 
of the monies.  Even muffins could participate by private email to 
a designated set of receivers.  Hmmmmm, perhaps I am more intrigued 
with the debate and threads associated with it than I am with the 
funding itself.

Of course, I have no argument with contributions to HRCF or any other 
established organization that serves our cause.  But I find it 
intriguing to consider how motssers would spend their bucks and also 
how many of those bucks would be generated.  After all if ANGLE can do
it, then *certainly* motssketeers could do as well!

Colburn Eigen (with tongue only slightly in cheek...you decide which)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: houser@rtsg.mot.com (Elizabeth J. Houser)
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:57:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.002452.7442@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I really think the main thing is feminism.  These boys hate
>women with a *real* passion.  Does that also work for
>straight-acting lesbians, though?

Jess - would you mind defining "straight-acting lesbian," please?

Let me guess - stereotypical bimbo - bleached bonde hair, implants,
gobs of makeup, pounds of jewelry, brainless, spends all of her
time shopping...(gee, sounds awful close to one of those "icky"
drag queens people have been complaining about;-)

-Liz

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:48:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.163442.28435@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.130021.18381@seq.uncwil.edu> drollin@seq.uncwil.edu 

>No.  Ronald Reagan was a hypocrite in the literal sense of the word.  
>
>Can someone post the instructions on how to use the Webster server that
>was mentioned earlier?  
>
Has 'hypocrisy' become the patent put-down of the 90's? I keep running
into accusations and descriptions of 'hypocrisy' that make no sense.


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 22:28:33 GMT


In article <1992Oct10.172354.29487@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>From the evidence here, I think it involves crossing the age
>of 26 or thereabouts, but there may be something cognitive involved,
>too. :-)

Crossing that fabled barrier is cognitive as few other
things are!  (I used to think it was 26 too, but now I think
it's 28).

I'm mulling (read: resisting) your notion about the
suffering component in iconifications.  Obviously it
happens, but is matyrdom in some sense required?  I don't
yet think so.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: first no on 9 tv ad i
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:08:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct7.190836.29860
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct7.4342.59140@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
>Phone the Governor of Oregon at (503) 378-3111 and urge him to vote
>No on 9.  

"her", actually. And she most likely will vote no on 9 - she's on our
side (although I was surprised she didn't send anyone to the big No on
9 rally last weekend.)`

It's a good idea to call.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                            Love under will
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: John Gielgud / Secret Agent
Date: 11 Oct 1992 01:41:12 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct11.042508.4095@reed.edu> 
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I just had the pleasure of seeing Secret Agent, the 1936 Hitchcock
> film with John Gielgud in it. It's quite good. A couple of motss
> relevant things came to mind:
>
> What's going on with the implied homoeroticism in that movie?!

I wish "Secret Agent" were fresher in my mind.  I'm sure there
are movie queens out there (Howard maybe?) who've got the movie
down cold.  Sorry.  Now if you'd like to talk about homoeroticism, 
implied and overt, in Hitchcock's films, we'll be up all night.

> Which leads me to the next question - anyone have any good Gielgud
> stories? My base of knowledge for him is rather odd. I've only seen
> three of his productions (all movies: Secret Agent, Prospero's Books,
> and Caligula (I told you, it was a rather odd collection)). I'm told
> he's been arrested more than once for crusing young men in the streets
> of London.

Yes, and once just after being knighted.  (Not on the streets, 
however. He was answering nature's call in a public toilet.)  Well, 
you should see Providence -- Gielgud is *magnificent* in it, as is 
Elaine Stritch, even if the film itself is something of a trial.  
He's quite funny in The Loved One.  What else.  Oh, he was in Becket.
There really isn't a whole lot that's good.  Besides, Gielgud really 
isn't a film actor.

> So, any dish? I don't suppose there are any tell-all biographies, are
> there? I saw an interview he did with (I think) Bill Moyers, but it
> was rather bland.

I don't know of any tell-all biographies, although I'm sure
Donald Spoto has already prepared one of his standard shoddily-
researched, badly written tomes and is just waiting for Gielgud
to die before he unleashes it.  Gielgud came out a couple of years 
ago, but that's certainly not dish.  Hmmmm.  Yoo-hoo!  Roger!  Do 
you have any dirt on Gielgud to share with us?

Arne
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PASSING by Langston Hughes
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:26:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.Bw4uBM.7y2
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Frank R.A.J. Maloney (frankm@microsoft.com) wrote:
> Luckily, Nannerboy is still on duty, movie-wise.

Yeah!  Thanks, especially for the list of stars.
I assume you've seen the other responses mentioning the
remake.  I'd like to see it, too.

> Very sentimental, very dated, and yet fascinating as a
> document of its times and for the performances by the two
> female leads.

I assume the connection between passing for white and 
passing for straight has not escaped anyone?

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re:Nureyev Ill and Memories
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:42:15 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: kjc7435@ultb

I feel very sad for the man.  I saw him in Sunderland (North East
England) in 1991 during his "Farewell Tour" of the U.K.  The local
papers were causing quite an uproar as the man was adamantly refusing to
give local interviews.  In reality, they were harassing him because he
was limping and several people had bought tickets for 30 pounds (that's
about sisty dollars) and were complaining that they hadn't paid all that
money to see a limping virtuoso. I felt very sad for him but watched him
anyway, and I'm glad I went to the show.  Despite his illness and his
limp, he is one of the best ballet dancers of this era.

A few fond memories...

Miss Kerry Cater.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Results of Sexual Orientation---Handedness Surveys!
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:00:59 GMT

In article <97630@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>By saying that left-handers appear to be no more likely to be queer than
>ambis or right-handers, I was merely remarking that the data was inadequate
>to show anything.

Well, I'm sorry to have double-glazed all those eyes.  But I thought
this handedness survey wasn't intended to show anything.  What exactly
do you think it did show?

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: "Recovered homosexuals" references
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:47:51 GMT


About a month ago, someone posted a reference to a book written by
some psychiatrist who specialized in "converting" gays to
heterosexuality.  In the book, he admits that he did not manage to
change orientations, only behavior.  Does anybody remember who the
author was, and the title of the book?

Thanks,

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||   -- My Bloody Valentine
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: [UPLOAD]: UTAH'S GAY AND LESBIAN RESOURCE GUIDE - #6 {45K FILE}
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:49:45 GMT

beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER) writes:





>Utah's Gay and Lesbian Community Resource Guide		     1992 SIXTH EDITION
>===============================================		     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for posting this! I have put it in /pub/QRD/qrd/info/LISTS on 
nifty.andrew.cmu.edu.

Actually, I'm going to be in Utah over Xmas break because Dean's brother is
getting married in Salt Lake City [gimme strength!]

Interesting to see that there is so much stuff out there!

I think I heard on THIS WAY OUT that some city council in Utah just 
approved a non-discrimination ordinance. Anyone remember which city it was?


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"I might be President by now if it weren't for this 'queer' thing" -Gore Vidal
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Fresh from the oven
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:39:33 GMT

norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:

>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>Another interesting factoid about me, me, me: I can speak in tongues.

>ME TOO.  Well, at least I used to, haven't tried for years.

>>I wonder if the Holy Spirit guides my voice? 

>NoNoNo, it's Holy GHOST.  Spirit has too many syllables.

Oh. Sorry. It's been so long - I've forgotten how to stoop to that
level.

>>I wonder if it's given me greater aptitude at oral sex?

>We should explore this together.

Yes; start brushing up now.

>>John, mystical

>jeff, willing to solve the mystery

Now that's the kind of take-charge attitude I *admire* in a
holy man.

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: They've *ruined* the _New Yorker_
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:13:57 GMT

roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>> >In this week's issue, some Clueless Reader wrote to ask
>> >what they meant by a "tetragrammatonic mustache."
[...]
>Whew!
>I still hadn't figured out how to spell "moustache" in four letters.

Salt.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Liz Renay)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:33:02 GMT


In article <1as8meINN8rp@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.204130.10414@fig.citib.com> 
|> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
|> >
|> > Having just received a copy of Liz Renay's _My First 2000 Men_ 
|> > I was wondering if there were any other Liz fans here?
|> 
|> Oh my, YES YES YES!!!  My friend David and I went to see Liz and
|> her daughter Baby perform the world's first mother-daughter
|> strip act at some hellhole in Pasadena sometime in the late
|> '70s. 

Then you have a copy of "How To Attract Men"
which recommends wearing a fur coat to the laundry
because you never know who you might meet and
that how you decorate your bedroom should speak
out about who you are and the accompanying photo
shows Liz lolling on her bed under a painting she
did in prison of a naked man and woman?

The best thing about the book is that all the photos
have been retouched  - but with the delicacy of a magic
marker; black black Black eyelashes drawn in on sort
of washed out gray photos and unwanted bulges removed
with WhiteOut and pencil eraser.  Even the little
girls have eyelashes drawn in.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:25:06 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct9.043246.12684@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
wrote:

> 1992 [so far]: "The Beast Within" remix of "Justify my Love" called
> anti-Semitic. Movie, "A League of their Own", released, with Madonna
> appearing as an outfielder, the limit of her interest in professional
> sports. New album, "Erotica", and new book, _Sex_, still to come as I
> write this.

She also appeared as a circus performer in a movie by another of this
year's "sex fiends..." 

Melmothra, ACC
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 12 Oct 92 03:18:23 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct11.041906.3741@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>could someone explain to me how soc.motss is a particularly white forum?

My question seems to have been misunderstood. Here's an attempt to elaborate.

I'm not asking *why* soc.motss is a particularly white forum. The
reasons for that are pretty clear - Usenet is heavily white, and in
particular there aren't many clearly identified non-white voices on
motss. Most of my own postings are per force from a "white point of
view" (what this phrase means is an intersting question, but slightly
tangential). I suspect most white motssers are in the same position. I
see nothing to apologize for here.

Statements such as "soc.motss is white-dominated the same way it is
male-dominated" or "soc.motss is white-dominated the same way the rest
of the usenet is straight-dominated" are somewhat useful, because they
make obvious the extrapolation we should all be working on.

But I can't work from "straight-dominance of Usenet" to "white-dominance of
soc.motss". I experience these two phenomena in very different ways.
When I read some clueless straight person's posting on a newsgroup,
I'm quickly aware of the exclusion of queers because I myself am
queer, and so I directly experience being left out. I am not black, so
I can't get the analogous feeling.

The comparison between "male-dominance of soc.motss" and
"white-dominance of soc.motss" is a little more helpful for me,
because the analogy is more direct. I am not female, so my
understanding of male-dominance has to be second-hand. It seems like it
should be easier to extrapolate from this to another second-hand
awareness, white-dominance.

But for me to achieve this similar understanding of white-dominance,
I'm going to need to read discussions about this dominances here in
motss. And that was the point of my question. Donald seemed
interesting in discussing the problems with motss, and so I asked the
question I wanted answered:

In what way does motss reflect the whiteness of most of its members?
I've pointed out one potential example - the discussion of Marlene
Dietrich as an icon. What are others? What would constitute a
discussion of particular relevance to non-white people?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Traditional Family Values
Date: 10 Oct 92 19:56:55 GMT
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <ldbtbeINNc8d@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jav@rhiannon.sitka.sun.com writes:
>I am truely looking for the 'TRUE' definition of "Traditional Family Values".

Traditional Family Values are the values traditionally held by YOUR family.

ObMotssGeekModeOn

"Traditional Family Values" is a class method.  If an instance of the
class "Family" wants, it can use the class method.  However, each
instance object tends to define its own TraditionalFamilyValues
method.  Now, this isn't necessarily bad.  What is bad is that each
instance tends to override a more important method.  I will describe
the class implementation and then what appears the be the instance
method in the majority of the cases.

The class hierarchy defines:

OneTrueFamilyValues:

	^shouldNotImplement


Which the instance tends to define:

OneTrueFamilyValues:

	^(self TraditionalFamilyValues)

which, of course, it has overridden with its own instance definition.

So there you have it.  All the problems with traditional family values
came about because we humans just aren't good enough smalltalk programmers.

ObMotssGeekModeOff??  NOT!

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:33:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.150923.23624@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess 
Anderson) writes:
>
>>and I'm listening to Mahler's Second Symphony (Resurrection)
>>on the VCR, a recording I made from the radio broadcast
>>earlier this week.  I saw the concert itself twice, in
>>September.  Luscious stuff.
>
>The peas with butter or the Mahler?

Both, although I'd say that the Rsurrection was more luscious.  The peas
were frozen (before I cooked them, for about half the time the label
recommended), and the music was prerecorded.  Of course , I had heard the
Mahler live two weeks ago, and the memory was still fresh. 

>>Anyway, in my quest for further butchification (insert Tom
>>Ammiano impersonation here), I bought a motorcycle on
>>Monday, a 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650.  
>
>Girlfriend!  Can this be the Jack I know?  I shudder to
>think of the next 2-3 upgrades, to both the cycle and Jack.

I could take some fashion lessons from Jeff Dauber.  

>I'm getting more seriously tempted myself, though I'm sure
>my bones are even more brittle than yours and have even less
>meat on them.

I'm sure you have enough meat elsewhere.  Anyway, more mature riders are
generally less likely to have accidents, because they're more cautious. 

>Are you letting your hair grow back for the
>requisite early-80s look?

It doesn't cooperate growth-wise the way it used to for long hair in the 
front, but it's longer in the back than it's ever been. 

>Ich habe deinen Mund gekuesst, Iokanaan.  [...] Hat es nach
>Blut geschmeckt?  Nein, doch schmeckte es vielleicht nach
>Tomato.  Reich' mir den Mahler, bitte.

My German's not up to that, my German being almost non-existent, but I do
recognize what it's taken from.  Somehow this makes me think of the recent
discussions of cultural literacy.   

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107