HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eric@npri6.npri.com (Eric Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: BARTON FINK: say what?  (SPOILERS)
Summary: perceptions jangled?
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:20:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

In article <1992Jul28.234301.398@morrow.stanford.edu>, GC.DJD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
> In article <1992Jul27.174622.1@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>,
> bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole) writes:
> >In article <1992Jul27.192508.8083@dazixco.ingr.com>, doak@sunbug.ingr.com
> >(Doak Heyser) writes:
> >
> >>    I got to see Barton Fink the other day and was left a little perplexed.
> >
> >First of all, I believe the story of the film is not to be taken literally.
> >I also don't believe it's a "dream", or a "decent into hell", or a "bad drug
> >trip" as I've heard offered before.  It is, simply put, an alegory.

I agree it's an allegory, but not any proposed recently in this group.

> At first I thought it was horseshit.  Then a respected friend of
                            ^^^^^^^^^
			If you're going to criticize, at least
			be creative and insightful. This sort of
			terminology makes it look like the film
			annoyed you because you didn't have the mental
			power to deal with it. I know you're smarter than 
			THAT...

> mine told me he liked the film a LOT.  He told me to think of the
> film as being the script Fink writes for the Wallace Beery wrasslin
> picture.  So I did, I cast the picture using the characters in
> Barton Fink:

[Stuff deleted that was WAAAYYY off the mark.]
I suggest you form your own opinions and not blindly accept the
perceptions of others.

> Hollywood grabbed it up and produced it, and turned it into the
> movie that confused, perplexed, and nauseated most of us.

Most folks I know who saw it were one of 1) enchanted; 2) amused;
3) stimulated into a metaphysical discussion; 4) perplexed, but
willing to admit the film had a lot going for it. As for those theater-
goers who would have preferred a brewski and a copy of CINDY DOES
DES MOINES, I'm sorry--I tried to get their views but they were too
busy belching at one another.

> See how this movie looks now in that light?
> Cowshit.
  ^^^^^^^ There you go again! Now stop it, or people will start thinking
	  your mother found you under a rock!
> Mike
Really, Mike, forget your friend's theory and chew on this a while:
	"I'LL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!!!"

Get the picture?

-------- eric@npri.com ---------- or ---------- ...uunet!uupsi!npri6!eric -----
         "When you die you will be buried and forgotten, that is all."          
Eric C. Williams/ NPRI/ Alexandria, VA/ USA/ (703) 683-9090/ Usual disclaimers.
From: lb2e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Louis Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: TERMINATOR II
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:08:58 GMT
	<64238@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Jorge Diaz wrote:
>there's the fact that she can't accept the Terminator being on
>their side (not until the very end).  Why?

Before this silliness goes on too much longer, would you mind
explaining exactly what you are referring to here?  What
scene, what line, what action in the movie strikes you
as improbable?  It seems to me that she accepted the terminator
about as promptly as could be expected.  When did she do or
say something of which you disapprove?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: heavy metal vs. r&r
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.755.41854@dosgate> "james kewageshig" <james.kewageshig@canrem.com> writes:
>After watching HM, I started watching a film that I remember having
>VERY GOOD to GREAT animation, 'Rock and Rule'.  R&R was done up here
>in Toronto by Nelvana, and I'm proud to say that Nelvana is a great
>animation house.
>
>If you haven't seen R&R (not a lot have), I would recommend seeing it.
>It's about a legendary pop star (who happens to dabble in Black Magic)
>looking for a perticular voice to open a gateway to another dimension.
>Lo and behold, while in a seedy club, he finds his magic voice...
>
>Thats a VERY brief description of the movie, but it is very good.
>
>If you like animated movies, SEE this one.

I found "Rock and Rule" to be a pretty mediocre movie, myself - rather
hackneyed plot line, not a great deal of visual imagination, not much
excitement in the direction.  It's been some years now, but I remember
the animation being of better than average quality, but hardly extraordinary.
Its a bit unusual, perhaps, and fans of "Heavy Metal" (another animated
film that failed to excite me much) might enjoy it, but I would not
describe it as either "very good" or "great".

--
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: thomason@feldspar.egr.msu.edu (Faran Thomason)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: The Vanishing
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:37:01 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <14dituINN7qg@agate.berkeley.edu>, peterme@ocf.berkeley.edu (Peter D. Merholz) writes:
|> An American version of this foriegn film is in the works, according
|> to Premiere mag... Has anyone seen the European version? Is it any
|> good?
|> 
|> Peter M.
|> 
|> 
The European version is pretty good. (Although my friends liked it better). It is an
interesting and effective mystery. Although I am getting sick of Americans remaking
quality foriegn films. Why not just allow forign films to get a better release pattern and
promotion. If we can export all our films all around the world, forign films should become
a staple in our theaters.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: andre@rurutu.wri.com (Andre Kuzniarek)
Subject: Re: American cinema (was Re: RASPUTIN)
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:03:14 GMT

In article <2552@nlsun1.oracle.nl> gbradley@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary  
Bradley) writes:
> john@spss.com (John Przyborowski) writes...
> 
> > Why don't add--
> >
> > "much of the film is gratuitous violence and sex, poorly written at 
> > that, as American films often are"  :) :) :) 
> 
> Actually I agree with the above statement much more than the original
> about Russian films being static and slow. I don't mind the first 2
> attributes, but the "poorly written" one is a real pain, and is VERY
> true of American cinema over the last few years. I have often asked
> myself how the American film industry has gotten away with it for so
> long, and I answer myself with the following 2 statements:
> 
> 1) A massive market of morons is sitting there waiting to lick it all
> up. Please don't flame
> me for this, it is the posting of several Americans on this very Net
> that leads me to believe this!!
> 
> 2) In America, the marketing people are much more talented than the bulk
> of the film makers. Proof? Ladies and gentlemen, I present for your
> delight..."Batman Returns". The biggest piece of shit in tinsel wrapping
> I have ever had the displeasure of encountering.

Well, maybe _Batman Returns_ is an example of what might considered good  
spectacle rather than good film. It's the only way I can figure that  
normally intelligent people are prepared to like it (this includes  
myself), all the while admitting that it's not a necessarily a good film.  
Maybe the term "movie" better encompasses poorly written and poorly  
plotted stories that do however seem worth watching (for some people),  
whereas "film" immediately implies a higher level of overall craft? People  
quite often go to the "movies" for an experience in distraction and  
amusement that has nothing to do with appreciating good film making.

AK

------- andre@wri.com ----------------------------------------------------
                                  "My god, they're using tools!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rein@GANDALF.BERKELEY.EDU (steve rein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: LA Story quotes (part 2)
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:11:47 GMT


In article <9207212311.AA17372@gandalf.Berkeley.EDU> I wrote:
>As part of an attempt to brew beer on my own, I am working with a 
>friend to design a label.  One thing we were thinking of including on
>the label is one of the lines from the film LA Story.  So, if you happen
>to have any on file or can remember a quote that would be worthy of
>a truly fine beer, can you e-mail it to me.  (And if there is any
>call for it, I will, of course, summarize for the net.)

Here is the summary (a thinly veiled plea for more quotes) of those
I've recieved so far (hint).  If you know of another or know that one
of these is certainly incorrect, please let me know.  Anyways, thanks
go to

	Kyle E Moore <kmoore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	marck@nwu.edu (marck l. bailey)
	schuck@sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
	
	and

	the person from silicon valley who sent me the e-mail I
	promptly and accidentally lost.  (sorry)

--------------
Q1	"What I'd really like to do is direct"
		- The Billboard

Q2	"Your breasts... they feel strange"
	"Oh, that's because they're real."
		- SanDi* (sp?)  [actress=?]

Q3a	"I could never be a woman. I'd stay at home and play with my 
	breasts all day." - Harris Telemacher  [Steve Martin]
Q3b	"I could never be a woman.  I'd just sit around the house all 
	day and play with my breasts." - Harris Telemacher  [Steve Martin]

Q4	"...this jeweled isle...this Los Angeles"
--------------

steve rein			There are three kinds of lies:  lies, 	
rein@stat.berkeley.edu		damned lies, and statistics - Disraeli
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: rm34@quads.uchicago.edu (Robert James Mohammed Monk)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Feminist Perspective of Batman Returns
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:15:27 GMT
Reply-To: rm34@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Media Maven

On this topic, many people are bringing up the psychotic nature of Catwoman, 
but I don't think anyone is really getting it.  No, Catwoman is not psychotic
as a backlash slap on strong women.  Catwoman is psychotic because no one in
their right mind is gonna dress up in black vinyl blowing up buildings and
fighting Batman.  For that matter, no one in their right mind is gonna go 
around swinging on buildings being Batman.  The context here is vital to the
analysis of this issue.  If the male hero of the picture was a thoroughly
sane individual, then making Catwoman less than sane would be exactly what it
has been made out to be-- a slap.  However, Burton obviously felt that it was
necessary to point out that normal people don't do things like this.  In that
milleu, however (crazy people who wear goofy costumes and beat up bad guys), a
woman is just as capable as a man.

If you want to get into negatives, though, consider this:

My memory is a little shakey, several weeks having passed since I saw the film,
but what about the first scene with Catwoman in public?  She beats up the man
attacking the woman (good thing) then attacks the woman for not doing it 
herself.  Is my recollection shakey, or is this what happens?  Now THAT is an
anti-feminist slap.

Comments?
Brother Robert
From: batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Really mega disappointment.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 11:09:57 GMT
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand

Hmmmmm... well, the word on the street is that Batman Returns is pretty (if 
not bloody) good(ish).  But what I want to know is, "Is the soundtracker, by 
Danny Elfman, EXACTLY THE SAME as the one for Batman I or what???

I am from little ol' New Zealand, and us poor sods don't get to see Batman 
II until August 21st, DAMN!  So I have been videoing every Entertainment 
This Week to get as much info as I can on it (as I like/love Batman), and 
everytime they have clips of Screnes and interviews with Tim "crack" Burton, 
they always have the original score by Danny from Batman I.  I am myphed!

     :-/                 <----worried and rather curious face.

Whats the goss people, all you USAites that have seen it... I don't think 
its very impressive to have the same soundtrack for BOTH movies.

I have heard "Up The Cathedral" music, "Charge of Batmobile" and "Finale"
so far... whats happening to movies these days??


--                                                                    
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2025ADJudgementdayBatmaniiDannyelfmanNeilheftyPrinceSilentimperium |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+----+
| Haveyoueverdancedwiththedevilinthepalemoonlight? Ilovepurple! | C= |
+--------------------------------+------------------------------+----+
| UserNet: Batman@amigans.gen.nz | T H I S   S P A C E   4   H I R E |
+--------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Greta Scacchi (sp?) - Any fans out there?
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:29:58 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Jul30.191048.1347@sco.COM> maureenw@sco.COM (Maureen Wilkes) writes:

>In article <#pyxp5n@rpi.edu> garrem@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Matthew Olsen Garretson) writes:

>>She was also very good in THE PLAYER.      

>I thought I was the only one who liked her in THE PLAYER!  

You aren't!  Though the scenes featuring her were (in my opinion) less
fascinating than the rest of that movie, she still did a fine job and
was a perfect choice for the role.

>Perhaps she's
>an acquired taste?  Although I wish she could make just one movie that
>didn't feature her mammarian endowments so prominently.  Can't she keep
>her shirt on for 2 lousy hours? ;^)

Have you imagined a shot that isn't there?  I suppose one can say that
the movie did, um, feature her endowments in a way, but she kept 'em 
covered up throughout.  This was in fact another game Altman was playing 
with our expectations (as he has admitted in interviews): yes we are 
going to get laughs, sex, nudity, etc., the whole list Griffin Mill 
recites.  But not in the way we expect.  Sex-bomb Greta Scacchi will 
not bare her breasts to the camera, while little-known Cynthia Stevenson 
will.  And because it's routine in Hollywood pictures that male frontal 
nudity is avoided, Tim Robbins will provide some in a scene that could 
clearly have been staged to avoid it.  Oh, that Bob A....   :-)

By the way, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but she
continues to pronounce her last name in the Italian style, "skocky."

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: cah@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Allen Halsell)
Subject: Re: Christopher Walken
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:52:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.225543.6139@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> k_workman@csc32.enet.dec.com (Karen Workman) writes:
>
>In article <6799@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>, delanzo@sparc22.hri.com (Michael DeLanzo) writes...
>>> [ Stuff deleted....] 
>> 
>>Two people that Walken "hangs around" with are James Woods and Peter
>>Weller. Now if that doesn't tell you how strange he is ... If I saw the
>>three of them walking down the street I'd run the other way. 
>> 
>>-md
>> 
>>BTW, I like the work of all three actors.
>
>Can you or someone refresh my memory as to who James Woods and Peter Weller
>are?  What have they played in that they can be recognized for?

Peter Weller is Robocop.  James Woods is Bill Wilson (to pick two
totally disparate roles...)

-- 
 the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
                 the spoken word is a jacket too tight
From: "eric walker" <eric.walker@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: george miller
Date: 25 Jul 92 02:03:27 EST
Reply-To: "eric walker" <eric.walker@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

MBB>This reminds me of question I've had for some time. Is it true
MBB>there are two directors named George Miller? It seems that
MBB>somewhere I read that one was responsible for the Mad Max
MBB>movies and the final episode of _Twilight Zone, The Movie_ and
MBB>that the other Miller directed _The Man from Snowy River_. I
MBB>assume that the former handled _The Witches of Eastwick_. Any
MBB>answers out there?

     Yes it's true, there are two directors named George Miller.  Neither
     of them wants to bruise his ego by taking on a middle initial to
     differentiate himself from his rival, however.  At least in Hollywood
     the unions have rules against things like that.
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Netmail Address: modemac@f230.n101.z1.fidonet.org
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.sf.movies
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: HONEY, I BLEW UP THE KID
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:19:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.014328.1984@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (mark.r.leeper) writes:

> (Of course, the title may
> sound less good-natured than intended, but all the ads make sure everybody
> knows in just what sense "blew up" is intended.)  

At least they had the wit and imagination to come up with a title other
than HONEY, I SHRUNK THE KIDS II.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece		
Not an Intel spokesman
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: pseudo-review:Mom and Dad Save the World
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:52:58 GMT
Reply-To: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: gdavis@donald.cc.utexas.edu

As movies go, I'm pretty easy to please.
Also, I know better than to get into a flamewar on rec.arts.movies. I 
admit that the T2 flamewar is my fault, but at least there's some
constructive debate over it.
Still, after I went to see Mom and Dad Save the World this weekend, I
said to myself 'self, don't start another flamewar. This movie was obviously
made for someone, it just wasn't you. Don't get involved on r.a.m. The
traffic's too high and you have a final coming up.'
	But this morning (the final was today, BTW), when I saw a 3-star
review for it in the school paper, I could remain silent no longer.
THIS MOVIE IS A RENTAL AT BEST!
This movie actually makes Teri Garr *and* Kathy Ireland unattractive! Of
course, it helps to give Kathy some dialogue.
I kept thinking, 'I think I can laugh, I think I can laugh...' but I just
couldn't laugh!
I still believe that somebody will like it, but it isn't worth the risk,
so I had to warn you.

Grant Davis
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"This is good[beer]. Remind me to take this world."-Lost Destiny
From: "eric walker" <eric.walker@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: cape fear: scorsese
Date: 21 Jul 92 06:11:06 EST
Reply-To: "eric walker" <eric.walker@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

UG>>     first thing they ask is "What's De Niro gonna be nominated for
UG>>     THIS year?"  (I wonder when he'll do a movie with Meryl Streep...)
UG>He did: _The Deer Hunter_.

     So he did.  Drat, and I've seen "The Deer Hunter," too - I just forgot
     about it.
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Calcium Anthropology: The study of milkmen.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Myths or Movies? (Batman 3)
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:46:21 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BOV.92Jul21171020@essex.x.co.uk> bov@x.co.uk (Andy Bovingdon) writes:

>My knowledge of batman 3 is that it is only in the 'thinking about it' 
>stage at the moment, but recent rumour at the Burbank studios was that
>they were thinking of bringing robin into it... ARGG ! NO. And even worse
>they are thinking that robin will be a woman (current suggestion being
>winona ryder) or black ( current suggestion michael jackson ). Now I hope
>this rumour is a mistake, for the sake of the film and everyone working
>on it. Can you really see mr jackson as robin.

Well, I don't know about a black robin, but the third robin *was* a girl
(can't remember her name, though).  Check out Frank Miller's "The Dark
Knight Returns".  Great story.

Spoiler


I loved the part when Batman fought Superman!  I've always wanted Superman
to get his ass kicked. :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're
Georgia Institute of Technology  |      outequipped what else have you got?"
Office of Information Technology | "Guile."
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |      -- Riker and Worf   "Peak Performance"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: The Fountainhead casting
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 04:37:22 GMT

In article <l7cevtINNklc@news.bbn.com> ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
}I haven't seen the Gary Cooper version of the movie, but what do you
}guys think of the following casting:

You will probably be disappointed with the movie if you do see it.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Comfort of Strangers
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:59:27 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide


Has anyone seen the movie "Comfort of Strangers" with screenplay by
Harold Pinter?

If you understood the movie, please explain. It was too cryptic for me.
From: crisper@deeptht.armory.com (Crisper Than Thou)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Batman Returns soundtrack (was Re: Really mega disappointment.)
Summary: Why the ads for Batman II had Batman I music
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:22:43 GMT
Organization: The Armory, Santa Cruz

In article <1992Jul24.214159.29911@sura.net> wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes) writes:
>In article <aFVeoB1w164w@amigans.gen.nz> batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson) writes:
>>Hmmmmm... well, the word on the street is that Batman Returns is pretty (if 
>>not bloody) good(ish).
>
>Well, I liked it, but that means virtually nothing.
>

Me too. Enjoyed it a helluva lot, but then, I'm easy to please.

>>But what I want to know is, "Is the soundtracker, by 
>>Danny Elfman, EXACTLY THE SAME as the one for Batman I or what???
>
>No, Danny's just really repetitive 8->.  I like Elfman's scores, but they
>all have a certain sameness to them - it's not that he can't come up with
>anything new, it's that he seems to really like certain themes and can't
>get away from them.

I agree here, too, but actually, I think the problem in the original post
 was that all the trailers and ads and whatnot for the second movie contained
 the *exact* music from the first. The second movie score is *very similar*
 but it's not exact. Trailers for sequels usually don't contain the music from
 the film they are advertising, it seems. Whether this is to keep the music
 from being heard before film release to make it better for audiences, or if
 it's just some legal thing, I dunno. However, sequel trailers almost always
 seem to use mostly stuff from prior films; every ad I saw for ALIEN 3 used
 music from the end of ALIENS, for example. And "first films" (i.e. original
 not sequel) usually pull music from completely different sources; the
 ads for DARKMAN used Tangerine Dream music from MIRACLE MILE, and COOL WORLD
 used Art of Noise's twang mix of "Peter Gunn".

So, uh, no, "Soundtrack Returns" is not *identical* to "Soundtrack", but
 it is really, really similar-- which didn't surprise me in the least.

>-- 
>Bill "Whassamatter?!  Can't you take a joke?!" Barnes   wbarnes@sura.net
>Disclaimer:  The author apologizes for any thought-provoking material he may
>	     have accidentally included and promises not to do it again.
>Datclaimer:  My employers wouldn't WANT to share some of my opinions.

	--The Elder Dan
	"I am looking for the answer, so I can throw it away
	 and think up better questions."