HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:05:12 CST
From: <U21729@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: The Good Woman of Bangkok

       What's the point? I didn't get the point from 'The Good
Woman of Bangkok'  posting. Maybe someone could pin point what
the poster was trying to say. Was he trying to say that Thai
women is easy? To be a little more precise, what are you
trying to say Mr. Godfrey and Mr. Cooney? It seems like
you two are on the same team. Are you trying to degrade
Thailand? Are you happy doing it? And why do you think
prostitution is bad? There's prostitution all over the
world. And not all prostitutes are bad people. Some
prostitute are very selective of the man that they
are going with. I'll give you $80 and I guarantee you
that not all woman at Pataya Beach will go and have
sex with you. If you're ugly, you're going to have
a real hard time picking up a good looking prostitute unless
you pay them a lot of money(talking about $400 and up).
Any way, at least they're doing for money. Unlike some girl
that are doing for free, jumping from dorm room to dorm room
and have sex with several men. One girl gave a friend of
mine a blow job inside of America's Bar (Chicago) during  the
New Year eve. Another girl gave my friend a blow job
inside of his car and she doesn't his name. I think
what Mr. Cooney trying to say about Thai women is that
they are easy. That's the impression that I received from
the title of his poster. Let me tell you something Mr. Cooney
and Mr Godfrey, some men in Thailand only consider a woman to
be a Good Woman only if she is a virgin until marriage.
I strongly suggest you evaluate your wife and family,
if they're a good woman or not according to
standard of the Thai Men that I have mentioned above.

My point is that not all prostitutes are bad and you should
not down grade them. And not all Thai women are prostitute.
People have a different point of view. You may think you're
the best and others may think that you're just a a bunch of
loosers. You may think your wife is 'The Good Woman in America
or Brit', but others may think she's as loose as a goose.



                          Greg Demos
Organization: Doctoral student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:35:28 -0500 
From: Schitt Laowattana <sl2k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Request for reposting the Seventh National Plan(1992-1996)

Excerpts from mail: 21-Jan-93 Re: [Part:5] The Seventh Na.. by Ronald
Maier@techops.cra 
>         I lost part2 of The Seventh National Plan, could you e-mail it 
> to me, thanks.

Hi,  

    Since there are many people requesting, I will repost the previous
posts again in the net.  If you've seen them before, please ignore them
at this time.  I apologize for repeating the same posts.



Schitt  Laowattana
Center of Operation for FIeld roBOtics Development(FIBO)
Bangkok, Thailand
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I do today is important because I am exchanging a day of my life for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cooneys@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Bangkok Post Jan 24: A new city -- Will it work?
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:58:29 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1993Jan24.232949.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>, cvadrgih@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>> Chulalongkorn's architectural lecturer Manop said a new city must 
>> have a major activity as an attraction. The city of Nevada in the 
>> middle of a desert, for example, has casinos as its main 
>> attraction, he said.
> 
>      There is one minor error I noticed here...  The city is Las Vegas.
> It is in the state of Nevada.  Gamboling is legal everywhere in Nevada, but
> L.V. is the BIG attraction....


Well, actually gamboling is legal everywhere in the U.S., as 
long as you don't offend public decency! ("Don't frighten 
the horses," as the British used to say.)

Gambling, however, is different ...
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: The Good Woman of Bangkok
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:58:55 GMT
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)

In article <C1H5Ir.n41@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mrynders@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Maurice Rynders) writes:
> In article <1993Jan26.000350.2290@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
>>
> No one should be blaming Thailand for this. Prostitution is found
> and will be found, everywhere, undeniably. Just because Thai ladies are
> beautiful in the eyes of many men, the situation in Thailand has
> received a disproprotionate amount of attention worldwide. It is why

Sorry, but you are wrong there.  The scale of prostitution in Thailand
makes this country very different from most others in this respect.  The
situation has not received a disproportionate amount of attention - the
media writes about prostitution in Thailand because it is so very evident
there, not for any other reason.  I would not disagree that Thai women are
beautiful, but so too are Chinese, Filipinas, Laotians, Cambodians, Malaysians,
Singaporeans etc - S.E. Asia is very fortunate in that respect.  I think
your perspective will shift when you visit Thailand.

Incidentally, you have ignored the very large amount of 'service boys' in your
text above - the country is a top favourite with homosexuals who use their
services, and underage boys are far more common than underage girls in the
sex market.  You have also ignored the katoeys [ladyboys] [transexuals and
transvestites].

> Thailand has received a "bum-rap", undeservingly. But that's the media
> for ya. You'll never see the good things from Thailand. That would be
> too boring and news-ratings would  go down.(Can't let THAT happen!) 
> Maybe, just maybe we should look for the cause of the negative image
> imposed in the Thai people, among the werstern media, who refuse to
> bring anything that is not controversial. 
> I bet you, many men would not dare to go to Thailand out of fear for
> what "the others" in their surroundings would say.... (Political
> correctness sucks.) They don't know about what a vast source of beauty
> and culture they're missing out on. 

Most of us couldn't care less about what people might say.  I agree that
Thailand is a vast source of beauty and culture, but let's not allow
that to blind us to the very real and desperate problems that exist there.


> My conviction is that we need to educate the public about the other
> aspects of Thailand. It would definitely change things for the
> better....
> 
> Greetings from someone who is dying to visit Thailand (for the right
> reasons)......
> MCR 1/26/93


Any reason for visiting Thailand is a 'right' reason.  It is neat and
convenient to divide tourists into 'sex tourists' and culture tourists, but
the distinction frequently becomes blurred within 24 hours of arrival.

laurence
Organization: Doctoral student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: kamol@ipied.tu.ac.TH (Kamol Hengkietisak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: One-month leave
Date: 28 Jan 1993 08:01:28 +1100
Organization: Mail/News gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: munnari.oz.au

I am taking one-month leave from Bangkok Post starting Feb 1-28. I will
be in Singapore for the whole month to attend Regional Language Centre's
seminar/workshop on Teaching English for Technology and Business. As some
regular readers of s.c.t may have been informed that I am holding two jobs:
at King Mongkut's Institute of Technology North Bangkok during the day time
and at Bangkok Post during the night time. I also open my own BBS at KMITN.
So during my absence, I have asked khun Trin to find a replacement for news
feed. 
	Will resume news posting in March.
Organization: Doctoral student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Subject: Re: Phuket
Organization: Messina Software
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:04:08 GMT

Glen_Houghton@mindlink.bc.ca (Glen Houghton) writes:

> I have just returned from a trip to Phuket and enjoyed my stay
> there very much I was wondering if there is another spot like
> this but less touristy. I would like to walk somewhere without
> being offered everything from sunglasses to rare gems to
> females-males. A nice beach area with some day trips available
> would be nice. Thanks for any info. 

It sounds like you stayed in Patong Beach.  Am I right?
Actually, there are places on the island with much fewer tourists
and much cleaner beaches, such as Kata.  And yes, it still is
fairly touristy, but at least not in a pushy way...

t.
From: Eino_Loukko@mindlink.bc.ca (Eino Loukko)
Subject: Thai info
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:20:58 GMT

Where does one find information on Thailand that is informative and
factual about the Cultural background of the people of Siam?

I believe that I have found some good sources and I take this
opportunity of passing it on to those that might be interested. This
info comes from books that I have picked up either in Canada or
Thailand -- they should be available "somewhere". I am not sponsoring
the following list, I just find them invaluable in trying to come to
grips with a culture so different than mine, and perhaps some other
netters may find them of use.

"Thailand, a travel survival kit", by Joe Cummings (Lonely Planet) has
come to my aid in more than one way. I managed not to get lost in
Bangkok, the north or south, and found many valuable tidbits of data.

"Culture Shock, Thailand" by Robert & Nanthapa Cooper (1990) and
"Thais mean Business" by Robert Cooper (1992) have provided me with a
great deal of Cultural and Business understanding.  Both books
provided several chuckles about my own personal misunderstanding of
past trips -- now I know why I got all those smiles(?!) The second
book is a must for those contemplating any form of business
transactions within the boundaries of the country.

Denis Segaller has written three books that I highly recommend; "Thai
Ways", "More Thai Ways" and finally "New Thoughts on Thai Ways" (all last
printed in 89).  He has lived there since the 70's and provides many
insightful viewpoints on this culture.

Finally, for those interested in Thai food, I regularly use the two
books by Malulee Pinsuvana on "Cooking Thai Food in American Kitchens".
I wish I could do justice to the attached pictures; I'am working at it.

If indeed someone does begin to work on a FAQ section for this group,
the above literature could provide a great deal of information that
could provide to our understanding not only of Thailand but the
differences in our own cultures.

I hope the above provides some useful information; it would be
marvelous to get some feedback from those who have spent many years
in a country we all have an interest in.

Eino Loukko
Abbotsford, British Columbia
Canada
From: popba@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr S Sorasuchart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: The Good woman in Thailand
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:43:04 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk


In article <1993Jan24.022318.23273@netcom.com>, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
|> popba@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr S Sorasuchart) writes:
|> 
|> You should forgive us that copies of political articles from
|> Bangkok Post and other papers are of little if any interest to 
|> us, as I feel many people are generally fed up with politics,
|> particularly in the US.
|> 
|> Best Regards,
|> 
|> Tony
|> 
Sawadee Khun Tony,

If you think the domestic political is nothing to you is find. But for us, the 
Thai, we are thinking of home. Bangkok Post and this net work are linked together
and we are in the foreigner lands, which have been decribed as a developed
country by which adjustment, I don't know. I don't want to move on about the
relationship of the countries in this.

Do you know that the prostitute problem in Thailand has linked up with the
political and economy problem in Thailand. What I mean by economy. I really mean
about how wealth of the people is in Thailand. If they are wealth enough and
educated enough. They will not sell and even want to be prostitutes. That mean
the Government will come in to play its role about the prostitute problem. 

However, the Government sets up organisations to help the women who are
prostitutes but it cannot solve the problem. Because it may attack at the wrong
area of the problem. How come ? Of course, the lady, that foreigners like to
visit and pay them at the high price lead them to the wealthier situation. But
when the Government come to help them with alternative ways of earning, What kind
of work will suit them to earn the same level as before.

This is only one suggestion about how politics link with this problem. Then if
you fed up with the political. Well, what should I say ? Leave your country, and
come to Thailand and help us to solve the problems, I mean there are a lot of
problem waiting for you to help

Best wish for Your new government.

Sawanit
From: markxx@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Thai fonts for the Mac (TrueType)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:17:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Summary: looking for fonts

Does anyone know of Thai TrueType fonts for the Mac?  I already know of the
commercially available ones from Ecological Linguistics (202-547-7678),
but was wondering if there were others avialable by ftp or otherwise.

Thanks.

Please e-mail replies to markxx@garnet.berkeley.edu

Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: The Good Woman of Bangkok
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:07:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.220854.28154@netcom.com>, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
> 
> <U21729@uicvm.uic.edu>:
> 
>> What's the point? I didn't get the point from 'The Good
>> Woman of Bangkok'  posting. Maybe someone could pin point what
>> the poster was trying to say.
> 
> Which poster?  There were at least 10.
> 
>> what are you trying to say Mr. Godfrey and Mr. Cooney? It seems like
>> you two are on the same team. Are you trying to degrade Thailand? Are
>> you happy doing it?
>> [...]
>> what Mr. Cooney trying to say about Thai women is that they are easy.
> 
> That's funny, I read all the posts and didn't see either of the above
> intentions anywhere.  Could you please substatiate the above with some
> quotes?
> 


No-one's trying to degrade Thailand - as I've said many times before I think
it is a wonderful country.  However, the truth is the truth, and it is not
the western way to hide the bad things and emphasise the good - both have
equal weight.

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: Glen_Houghton@mindlink.bc.ca (Glen Houghton)
Subject: Phuket
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:04:11 GMT

I have just returned from a trip to Phuket and enjoyed my stay there very
much I was wondering if there is another spot like this but less touristy. I
would like to walk somewhere without being offered everything from sunglasses
to rare gems to females-males. A nice beach area with some day trips
available would be nice. Thanks for any info.
Regards
Glen Houghton

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: The Good Woman of Bangkok
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:02:17 GMT

In article <1jn9efINN1gh@sal-sun50.usc.edu>, chankhun@sal-sun50.usc.edu (Anawat Chankhunthod) writes:
> 
> 
>>Don't be absurd - the going rate in Pattaya is B500 per night,
>>or $20.  Of course the odd farang gets charged two or three times
>>this, but $400!  Come on!  Besides the rate in the Thai lady houses
>>in Chiang Mai is around 50 - 80 B
> 
> I'd like to give some information about those things. I come from Chiang Mai
> University. I heard a lot about Mr. Godfrey and his opinion to Thailand and
> also Chaing Mai University.
> 
> Lady houses rate as low as he mentioned, I'm not sure if there is still
> avialable in 1993... However, I heard about such low rate since I was an
> undergraduate student at CMU. It was very old story. Anyway, such low rate
> was for labor man, for instance, tricycle rider in CNX.
> 
>  
I know of several in Chang Puak, where I used to live, and in the Earth Wall
area where I have visited a couple of times, that charged in this price
range in 1990.  There were several closer Tha Pae costing around 150 B.
The fancier ladyhouses rather close to the university (the one in
the Honey Complex and the so-called 7th floor heaven down Huew Kaew were
in the region of 200 - 500 B for a short time [an hour or so]).  The rather 
famous upmarket cafe in the Night market (which I noticed on my last trip had mysteriously
burnt down after property developers had been unable to get permission to
demolish it to make way for a new development) had girls grouped into
3 grades and was charging in the 200B - 500B range for a short time.  The 
farang bargirls were 3 - 500 B per night in 1990.  These prices were correct 
at the time I got the data for
my book and for an American girl doing a thesis on prostitution in 1990.

The ajans at cmu maintained that if one utilised the ladyhouses below the 
few-hundred baht range, the probability of interacting with an HIV +'ve
girl was considerably heightened.  The data coming out of the hospital
research centre at the time was claiming levels of around 70% infection 
in the Chang Puak ladyhouses.  What you say about labourers and tricycle
drivers is certainly correct as far as the ladyhouses in the earth wall
area were concerned (where the girls appeared to be imprisoned in glass
cages waiting for customers), although I knew a few non-labourers who
went there too.

I know what you're thinking, and the answer is no - I never availed myself
of the services of the ladyhouses mentioned above, but I did take a look at many
of them out of curiousity.

regards laurence
From: tun@quark.SFSU.EDU (Coban Tun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Thai/burma Foreign minister due to sign accord
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:49:16 GMT
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X-Cc: bob@brunz.santa-cruz.ca.us, bpf@igc.org, haya@igc.org, ken@ipied.tu.ac.th,
        michael_gold@qm.sri.com, synapses@igc.org, tinraschid@igc.org


 
01/23 2314  THAILAND - BURMESE FOREIGN MINISTER DUE TO SIGN ACCORD
 
(JAN. 22) PAC RIM INTELLIGENCE REPORT - Burmese Foreign Minister U Ohn Gyaw
will pay a two-day visit to Thailand, starting on Thursday, during which he will
countersign an agreement to set up a Thai-Burma joint commission.
   Sources yesterday said U Ohn Gyaw would meet his Thai counterpart, Prasong
Sunsiri, at the Foreign Ministry on Thursday. The two ministers will sign the
agreement by which the Thai-Burma Joint Commission is established.
   The commission will be an essential mechanism in strengthening bilateral ties
and encouraging a closer relationship between the two neighbouring countries.
It will deal with several issues including trade, investment, cultural exchange
and tourism.
   However, the sources said the mandate of the commission, to be chaired by
Prasong and U Ohn Gyaw, will not include security and military related matters,
which are the responsibility of the Regional Border Commission. The border
commission is cochaired by deputy foreign ministers.
   Once the joint commission is set up, several issues involving the opening
of more border crossing points along the Thai-Burmese border and joint projects
to assist both countries, are expected to be discussed.
   U Ohn Gyaw is scheduled to pay a courtesy call on Thai Prime Minister Chuan
Likphai at Government House before leaving for Rangoon on Friday.
 
   From THE NATION in English
   Date 19 January 1993
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Subject: Re: The Good woman in Thailand
Organization: Messina Software
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:19:08 GMT

<U21729@uicvm.uic.edu> replies to Mr. Godfrey:

>When I said $400 for a prostitute, I was referring
>to a good looking one and not an average or an ugly looking one.
>If you're decent looking and know how to talk, you may be able
>to get their companionship for free. Would you still consider
>them, a prostitute? Laurence, you must remember, they're just
>as human as we are. They are not just some sex object where you
>could jump on. You made it sounds like they would anything for the money.

What the hell are you talking about?  First you say you're
talking about prostitutes, then you start sentimentalizing
them, why don't you decide who you're talking about?  The
subject was prostitutes, like a 'professional'.  A person
that sells sex for money.  That's the definition of
prostitution, for god's sake. That's what they do and that's
why they do it - to earn MONEY, not to listen to your poems or
hear useless sentimentalizing.

Prostitutes are everywhere (personally I see nothing wrong with
it), not just in Thailand.  Can you perform a mental exercise
of disassociating a profession from a nationality?  You seem to
be having problems with that.  

Also, your prices of $400 per night are probably true for a few
chosen ones, but generally speaking it's a total nonsense. 
And, no, I am not 'dreaming about 80s', I am talking about
gorgous women as recent as months ago. What would you like -
$60 for the night?  With a goddes?  That's the max it goes for. 
If you pay $400, that's your problem. 

And get it straight finally - no one is trying to put Thailand
down here in this thread - we were talking about certain 
problem which has NOTHING (home assignment - repeat it 100 times)
NOTHING to do with nationality.

t.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: RE: A GOOD WOMAN IN THAILAND
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:19:56 GMT

In article <93022.140435U21729@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U21729@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>> Laurence, you're dreaming of the 80's. A square meter of land around
>>> Dusit hotel (in Chiang Mai) costs at least $40,000(US).
>>
> CORRECTION. IT'S $4,000 (US) AND NOT $40,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
Strange, I already received one email from another Thai person claiming your
figure of $40,000 per square meter was correct!
Come down by another factor of 5 and I might go for it, provided we confine
ourself to a range of 10 m from the Dusit Thani's front porch.  Chiang Mai
isn't the centre of Tokyo quite yet.

regards Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai