HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: 14 Oct 92 05:23:59 GMT

In <1992Oct13.163304.28530@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>3) It is a man's obligation to keep his wife happy and content.  This
>   means providing for her needs and as much of her desires as is is
>possible.  As a good example, in some communities, women aren't
>allowed to drive cars - so their husbands are obligated to drive them
>wherever they want to go whenever they want to go.  Whose life is
>worse here?

What this actually means is providing for her needs and as much of her
desires as the man decides to provide for.  If the man doesn't feel
like driving the car right now (or feels like driving it somewhere
else) guess who takes the bus?  It's all well and fine to have a
driver, so long as the driver drives at your convenience, not at his.

Whose life is worse here?  The man gets to make that decision, of
course.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very strange signature virus.
 |warren@      But the hiker
/ nysernet.org is not all that concerned.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Silver trumpets
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:47:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.93272
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)

In article <2657@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:
>The mishnah says that in the Temple they used to have two people
>blowing trumpets standing on either side of the person blowing the
>shofar.  Just something that this reminded me of, not a justification
>for blowing a trumpet.

Cohanim are supposed to blow silver trumpets in times of danger.  Is
this ever done today?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: exposim@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx (Simposium de Sistemas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish vs Arabs
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:24:29 GMT



    I'm here again with a question.

    I have received some answers to my two questions, i'm very glad to you
   by your cooperation. Now i have another one:

    If Israel is the most democratic country in Middle East, why 
    is he so punished (i think it's the right word), by the Arabs.

    Maybe the U.S. has something to see there? Maybe because the 
    jewish in Israel are trying to insitutionalize the Apartheid vs
    the non-jewish people (Arabs, Palestinians,etc).

    Can we say it's more a problem of religion than a problem of 
    economics, the most important problems in Israel???


                                             Thanks a lot.
                                             send your answers to:
                        exposim@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx

               

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: marbm-b@ascii.co.jp (Marcos Bachir Mubaied)
Subject: Re: EGYPT: LET MY PEOPLE DIE - we hate Jews !
Organization: ASCII Corp. Tokyo, Japan
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:38:17 GMT

>And I am wondering: suppose the Israeli saving units had arrived,
>and suppose yjey will be about to save some Egyptian will those
>Israelis actually save those Egyptians, or will they try to kill them
>while no one is looking.

	Come on!! Let us try to discuss the facts coldly.

Bashir Mubaied

   In   the   name  of   ALLAH,   the    Beneficent,   the    Merciful

		Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim


-- 
               ___   | |       |  ___   | |  /|  |  | |              |
              |  |  _| |         |  |  _| | /_|  |  | |    |  |  |   |
       o_|__|____| |   | | o |_o____| |   |   |__|__| |  o_|__|__|___|
   ___/   oo    ___|     |___|     ___|              ___/          o
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Perot Halts Engagement
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:33:31 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <92285.1307582893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (corrigible) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.124812.15752@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
>(samuel.saal) says:
>>In article <1992Oct4.224749.17906@news.ysu.edu> aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
>>(Marlene Miller) writes:
>>
>>>There was a discussion at our Sunday morning minyan that H. Ross Perot's
>>>daughter was dating a guy. H. Ross found out he's Jewish.. and put a stop
>>>to it before it got 'serious'.
>>
>>_IF_ this is true, is it a positive comment about Perot?  I'd say so.
>>After all, protecting individual traditions, and helping prevent an
>>intermarriage is positive as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>You can't possibly be as naive as you let on. If Perot called off a
>relationship between his daughter and a Jew, it's not because of his respect
>for the Jewish ban on intermarriage but because of anti-Semitism.

You have a wonderful double-standard here.  If Judaism doesn't want to
allow intermarriage, why is it wrong for a Christian to insist on his
daughter marrying another Christian?

Perhaps we should all try and find out his real reason.  First of all,
I have no idea if this rumor is true, and I don't think anyone else
here has any facts on the matter.  Second of all, it doesn't
necessarilly mean anything anti-semetic.  I know of plenty of Catholic
families that would rather die than see their children marry
non-Catholics, etc.  I don't consider that to be anti-semetic, and
neither should you.

Let's not start badmouthing people without any facts, OK?
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:55:04 GMT

In article <BvtEFM.8vJ@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.015854.3744@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger) writes:
>
>>And I salute you, Marc Krawitz, for having the guts to publicly say
>>in a Jewish newsgroup that the continued existence of the Jewish
>>people is of no concern to you, and that your needs outweigh those
>>of the Jewish community as a whole. It is also refreshing to hear
>>a Jewish college student explicitly say that the destruction of his
>>people is "healthy," as interrmarriage is a "fundamental tool"
>>for reducing racism, cleverly implying that those of us who actually
>>value the Jewish religion are racists.  (BTW, when did race enter 
>>the picture? Or do you view Judaism as a race? I think I've heard
>>that done once before...)
>
>I see no such statement by Mr. Krawitz.  There are large numbers of quite
>serious Jews whose attitudes are substantially different from those of
>Mr. Lustiger.  There is no one Jewish culture; cultures need to evolve.

I thought that it was obvious that I was not saying that Mr. Krawitz
explicitly is calling for the destruction of Jewry, but rather that
I was pointing out that the ramifications of what he is advocating would 
in fact have that effect.

While there are clearly "large numbers of quite serious Jews whose
attitudes are substantially different" from mine in many respects,
I maintain that this is not the case vis a vis intermarriage. No 
major Jewish movement has ever advocated intermarriage as a 
solution to "racial" (sic) problems, as Mr. Krawitz evidently does.
While I disagree with many Jews on a variety of issues, I have
great respect for those who have a love of Judaism, from whichever
religious perspective. 
>
>Much of what is called the "Jewish culture" on this net is that isolationist
>phenomenon, partially forced on us by our oppressors, that we can only survive
>by essentially rejecting all external culture.

...

I fail to see what any of this has to do with what was posted earlier.
It certainly may make an interesting discussion, because even within
Orthodoxy you will find a very wide range of attitudes on this very
subject. But it's not what we're talking about, namely, that intermarriage
is detrimental to the Jewish community on the whole.
>
...
>Intermarriage is not to be
>undertaken lightly, but even the Talmudic dictum that the child of a Jewish
>woman is Jewish recognizes that it must be considered.

After the fact, but not as an option!

>-- 
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399

-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lbs@tkmhp4.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Some examples from Paul Johnson's "A history of the Jews"
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:21:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.163834.18813@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.045248.4917@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, lbs@tkmhp4.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski) writes:
><  Here is what I found in "A history of the Jews", by Paul Johnson,
>< Harper&Row, 1987. On p. 500:
><  "There was a large element of personal hatred in French wartime
>< anti-Semitism. In 1940 the Vichy and German authorities received
>< between 3 and 5 million poison-pen letters denouncing particular
>< individuals (not all of them Jews)."
><  At that point he quotes Andre Halimi, "La Delation sons 
>       should be "sous"                               ^^^^
>< l'occupation", Paris 1983. Is there an English translation
>< of Halimi's book? 
>
>I don't know of one, but the numbers lead me to question Johnson's
>interpretation. In 1940 there were about 350,000 Jews in France,
>i.e. about 100,000 families. This means 50 "poison-pen" letters,
>in the course of just half a year, for every Jewish family in
>France. I'd guess that would have been beyond the ability of the
>police to investigate, which might have been the point. I'd bet on
>a deliberate action (by the Resistance? by fugitive Jews?) to
>drown any real denounciations in millions of phony ones. Since
>the Resistance had already eliminated, through threat of
>reprisals, the temptation of blackmail, anonymous letters would
>have represented a major remaining threat to fugitive Jews. So
>such action would have made sense.
>					Adam_V_Reed@ATT.com

 Even if, say, 30 % of those letters were "real",
doesn't it provide an example of what you have been asking
for some time ago? I am afraid you are too fast to dismis
that quote above. Did you look to Halami's book?
Did you see the part of the book relevant to that quote above?
If not, why do you speculate do freely? 

 And if the Resistance indeed tried to drown the "real"
poison-pen letters, it must have been a real problem.
It would be helpful to know, if there is an English
translation of Halami's book (I don't know French). German
would be ok too, but it would be unlikely to be available
in the US. I would not speculate about the Resistance's
approach in this matter without having some material
to back it up. Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against
your speculation. But speculation is only a speculation.

 Lech Borkowski
lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Zev Raden <raden@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: Kaddish for pets?
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Zev Raden <raden@aecom.yu.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:12:57 GMT



On Fri, 9 Oct 1992, jodi.weber wrote:

> 
> Is there a rule/ruling on whether one may say Kaddish for a pet?
> 
> 
> Jodi Weber
> jodiweber@attmail.com   or   jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
> 
================
Surely this pet must have some closer relatives besides the human owner.
Maybe a cousin cat or dog, or a brother?
Was the pet Jewish? Did he have a bris, bat or bar mitzvah?
Please be more specific when asking such brilliant thought provoking
questions for the readers.
From: jfinger@adobe.com (Jeff Finger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: EGYPT: LET MY PEOPLE DIE - we hate Jews !
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:11:45 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc., Mountain View, CA

Gideon Erlich writes:
>> Israel offer Egypt the help of those units.
>> 
>> Mubarek the president of Egypt allowing those Jewish saving groups
>> stepping on the holly Egyptian soil.
>> 
>> Egyptians continue to die.

Gideon, I do not understand the statements above.

    * Did Israel offer to send rescue units to Egypt? 
    * Were they refused?

Moadim le'simxa,

-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger --
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,rec.woodworking
From: alex@opal.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman)
Subject: Geodesic Sukkah (for '53)
Organization: Boise State University Math Dept.
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:43:46

Unusual combination of newsgroups, but I believe Steve Bellovin set a
precedent a Purim or two ago.

I built a rather interesting sukkah (that's a tabernacle, a "fragile,
temporary shelter", for those of you in rec.woodworking who don't know
and are still reading) this year.  The construction is all equalateral
triangles, and except for some bracing it is held together entirely by
loose and tight pin hinges, so you can fairly easily take it apart,
fold up the pieces, and store them in a confined, linear space.  You
can make it any size you want (I used 10' lumber), and once made, the
walls can be swung out, increasing the room inside at the expense of
lowering the roof.  The roof is a triangle, and it has a triangular
brace placed directly on top of it to form a Magan David.  Six
carriage bolts connect the brace to the roof, and then braces run down
from the vertices of the top brace to each of the walls, preventing
them from swinging when you don't want them to.

I rather like the design (:-) and part of it was inspired by a friend,
so I can't take full credit.  Anyway, I would like some help on two
items: 

1.  I never got a satisfactory connection between the braces and the
walls.  It works, but I don't like it.  If anyone can figure a better
way to do that, I would like to hear about it... the problem is that
the walls and the top brace have different alignments, so for the
brace to lie flat against one, it must be oblique to the other.  I
came up with several solutions, all of them lousy.

2.  It occurs to my rather conceited and pretentious self that someone
else might like to build one of these.  Unfortunately, while I can
make working drawings that *I* understand, I am really not much of a
draughtsman, nor do I have a CAD package readily available.  If a good
draughtscritter is interested in working with me to put together some
plans that people could work from, we could make it available over the
net.  Part of the problem with drawing up plans is that some things
are approximations that work, and I don't know how to tell other
people quite how to deal with that -- e.g., at one point some 29.1
degree cuts are called for (and that number changes with the size
lumber you use), but I used 30 degrees and it worked, but I could see
how it might confuse someone.

Followups to email, please... I gather most of the net is not
interested in this.  Please send me a note if you want a copy of the
plans when (if) they are done, including what kind of cad software you
might have available.  I probably won't be distributing anything
unless I get a interested draughtsperson to help.
--
	--alex			alex@math.idbsu.edu
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chinese jews
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:39:37 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Oct13.154214.1@minnie.imd.nrc.ca>, chin@minnie.imd.nrc.ca writes:
> 	Question?
>
> Can some out there on the net give me an introduction to the history of
> the chinese jews?. A reference please?.
>

From what I remember reading, Jews lived in K'aifeng and although now
indistinguishable from their neighbors, they were descendants of Jews who had
come from Persia. The K'aifeng Jews had  built quite an elaborate synagogue but
I don't think it's still standing.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL






Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Intermediate Days Of Sukkot: Kiddush, Candle Lighting??
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 21:16:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.155220.26602@godzilla.quotron.com>, jeff@godzilla.quotron.com (Jeff Marder) writes:
|> What do you do on Chol Hamoed Sukkot??  Do you recite the Festival
|> Kiddush every evening??  do you light candles  (if so, do you say
|> "Shel Yom Tov", or something else??)

No, these are only done on Yom Tov.  However, some things are still done
on Chol Hamoed.  The "yaaleh v'yavo" addition is said in the Grace after Meals
and in each Amidah.  The Musaf service is said, the lulav is taken and full
Hallel and Hoshanos are said (check out a siddur for which Hoshana is said each 
day).  And, of course, we use the Sukkah.

In addition, we are to refrain from Melacha (acts that are forbidden on Yom
Tov) on Chol Hamoed if it can be postponed, without loss, until after Yom Tov.  
This generally includes things like haircutting, gardening, sewing (if
done as a hobby), etc.  It generally does NOT include work that is done for
pay - i.e., your job.  As always, CYLOR for details.
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's FLAMES
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: ignore - test
From: news@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:30:10 CDT
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:03:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: blaze.1992Oct17.030329.13937
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Oct16.225225.5416@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>The other argument regarding women and time-bound mitzvot is that, because
>of the menstrual cycle, women inherently have a sense of time while men need
>rituals to remind them of changes in time.

All men don't have an inherent sense of time?  Every single one?

If a man is an astronomer and deeply studies the moon so that he is aware of
the passage of time in months, is he then exempt from all these mitzvot?
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Humor in the Bible (was: Heroes in the Bible)
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:19:51 GMT

In article <2939@ceylon.gte.com> sgutfreund@gte.com writes:
>This thread reminds of something:
>
>A non-religous Israeli once challenged me to give examples
>of humor in the Bible (by this he meant Tanach, and specifically
>the chumash). The closest I could come was the Rashi's dealing
>with Avraham's purchase of the Cave of Machpela from Efron -
>which I find hysterical. Haman's downfall also makes for
>good reading (especially when one adds in the various
>midrashic sources).
>
>But can anyone give explicit examples of humor in T'Nach?

Every time I say "kamohem y'hi'yu oseyhem" (may their creators
[creators of idols] be like them), I smile.




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Kaddish for pets?
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:17:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.190149.11311@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:
>
>Is there a rule/ruling on whether one may say Kaddish for a pet?
>

I have never heard of such a ruling, at least by Orthodox authorities.
The Kaddish is a prayer that reaffirms the sanctity of G-d.  The
standard reason for its (Mourner's Kaddish) recitation by mourners
is to reaffirm G-d's role, even in personal grief over the loss
of one's parents, or other close relative.

I would guess that most people would view the recitation of Kaddish for
a pet as profound trivialization of an important religious ritual,
no matter how much you loved the animal.

(I am not a pet lover, but my kids are, and our backyard is filled
with graves of a bunny, a cockatiel, several gerbils, a lizard,
at least two fish, and some other critters I have forgotten.  But
none of the kids [who are familiar with Jewish rituals] ever suggested
Kaddish.)

Kaddish is generally recited in a communal service, most commonly in
a synagogue.  Try asking the congregational rabbi, but pose the
question carefully, so he/she takes you seriously.


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: millman@indigo.bear.com (Phillip Millman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Yom Kippur Question
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:52:59 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


I was under the impression that we didn't were leather shoes on Yom Kippur.
But at shul I noticed some men wearing Rockports (Rubber Soles).  When
I inquired they said that the law is for leather soles on shoes.

Which is right and wear does the law come from?

Phillip Millman
millman@bear.com
--
Phillip Millman					millman@bear.com
The opinions expressed are those of Phillip Millman and not that of 
Bear Stearns & Co. Inc.  I think it is better that way.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: ? test
From: news@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:33:59 CDT

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17403 soc.culture.polish:3092
From: bferguso@techbook.com (Robert Ferguson)
Subject: More Questions
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:16:04 GMT

After reading all the replies that I received on Rabbinical literature, I
find that I have more questions.

What is considered as inspired by God in all the literature?  Is it the
Hebrew bible only or is the Mishna (beyond the Torah) included?  What about
the Gemara, this is just commentary is'nt it? and the Midrash, are these
just commentary only?  Someone mentioned that liberal Jews do not accept the
oral law as inspired; does this, therefore, mean that all other Jews accept
the entire Talmud as inspired.

What is the Judaic view of the biblical creation materials?  Is it a
creationist type outlook or is it all allegorized away?

Somebody mentioned Roth booksellers in LA.  Does anyone have a mailing
address?  How about other Judaic bookstores in the US?  I looked around
here in Portlan, OR and there does'nt seem to be much available.  Any
names, addresses, and phone numbers I could get would be very helpful.

Thanks for the help.

-- 
Internet bferguso@techbook.com | "Man that is born of a woman is of few
GEnie    b.ferguson8           | days, and full of trouble," Job 14:1.
FIDOnet  1:105/369             | What the heck! "don't worry, be happy"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish