HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:34:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.202703.4113@cas.org> rmt51@cas.org writes:
>Q.  If you count the tail as a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
>
>A.  Four - calling the tail a leg doesn't make it one.
>
>Just because the Supreme Court and other authorities do not recognize that the
>decorated evergreen is a christian symbol doesn't change the facts.
>
>On the other hand, the Columbus, OH newspaper had an interview this morning
>with a local atheist, who referred to a "solstice shrub."  I guess they're not
>aware of it either. 

Strictly speaking, the decorated evergreen is *not* a Christian symbol.
It's a pagan symbol that has come to be associated with the celebration
of Christmas. It used to be part of the Yule, or Winter Solstice
celebration, along with other such "traditional Christian" trappings
as holly, mistletoe, evergreen wreaths, and the Yule log.  The so-called
Christmas tree and other holiday accoutrements only became popular among 
a large chunk of Christianity during the Victorian era.  Today, certain
fundamentalist Christian sects, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, refuse
to celebrate Christmas (and Easter) because it is so heavily based on
old, assimilated pagan practices.  Orthodox Christians celebrate their
Christmas on January 7, instead of December 25 (which corresponds more
to Saturnalia than to when Jesus may actually have been born.)  Although
my family is Catholic, I never knew what religious significance there
was behind the Christmas tree until I began to immerse myself in
Jewish culture. :)

However, I can certainly appreciate the fact that the decorated
evergreen has become a strong symbol of Christmas, a holiday
oppressive to all non-Christians (me included).  It is for this
reason that I chose not to have my own "solstice tree" this year,
although for me the decorated evergreen has been more of a generic
symbol of cheer and hope during the dark days of December.  Instead,
my fiance and I got a pretty new chanukiah and decorated the apartment
a little for chanukah -- and the decorations will come down as soon as
chanukah is over.

But honestly, I've never heard Christians ascribe the religious
significance to the Christmas tree that Jews do.  I'm a little
unhappy now that the Christians have appropriated what is otherwise
such a comforting object to have around during the longest nights of
the year.

>-- 
>Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
>(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
>(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
>      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |
>


--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
From: pcs$1393@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: book about jewish american history
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:41:43 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

I am interested in contacting the johns hopkins university press to get
availability and cost of a new series of books entitles "the history of jewish
people in america." it received a very good write-up in my local (louisiana)
newspaper, and i am considering ordering the set. does anyone know how i can
communicate with the johns hopkins university press? thank you
tony gallart pcs$1393@selu. i will check back with this newsgroup for a
response or will be grateful for a mail response if necessary.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Subject: Re: God's Hyphen (Re: Mezuzah question)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 18:55:21 GMT




Andrew Solovay writes:

>Touchy, aren't we? I don't know if I should speak for Ms. Miller,
>but her practice seemed natural and appropriate to me. Mr. Cohen
>might well say the bracha just as it's written; if she used the
>accepted mutilation of God's names, there's a real chance that
>Mr. Cohen (or someone else reading this) might actually *say*
>"Baruch atah hashem, elokainu....[sic]".


Thanks for coming to my defense in the hyphen problem on scj ... 
When I typed up my response... (to the questions) I thought about
the two instances in the bracha... but decided to post it as it was.
Yes, because in a way, I wasn't sure if the questioner was a newcomer who
would know what I meant if I used Hashem there or not....

A few  minutes later... I tried to delete that posting, and use a hyphen
in Ad-nai and El-hainu, but for some reson, the original stuck and the
hyphenated one didn't post. 

Thanks for defending my reasoning.   It's a shame more people aren't as
kind and thoughtful as you are.  Nasty notes (a few of which I received
in my mailbox) make me wonder if these people who wrote them, are "really"
Jewish... or if they're just putting on an outward show.  You, on the
other hand.. seem to have a firm grip on the meaning of kindness.

Marlene










--
       No nation can survive without pride in its traditions.
       Marlene J. Miller   aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: Miketz/Vayigash Confusion in L'Chaim 247?
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:30:08 GMT

In article AA02027@cybernet.cse.fau.edu, Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> () writes:
(Headers Deleted)
>************************************************************************** 
>                              L'CHAIM             ISSUE # 247 PART 1 OF 8
>**************************************************************************
>              THE WEEKLY PUBLICATION FOR EVERY JEWISH PERSON
>     Dedicated to the memory of Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka Schneerson  N.E.
>**************************************************************************
> Dec. 25, 1992              Parshas - Mikeitz                 1 Teves 5753
>**************************************************************************
(Stuff Deleted)
>**************************************************************************
>                                 L'CHAIM          ISSUE # 247 PART 2 OF 8
>**************************************************************************
>                          LIVING WITH THE TIMES
>                        THE WEEKLY TORAH PORTION
>**************************************************************************
> 
>   This week's Torah portion, Miketz, contains an interesting exchange
>between Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and our Patriarch Jacob. When Joseph
>brought his elderly father to Pharaoh to introduce him, Pharaoh asked,
>"How old are you?" Jacob responded: "The years of my travails are 130. The
>days of the years of my life have been few and hard, and they have not
>reached those of my ancestors in their journeys."
(More Stuff Deleted)
>**************************************************************************
>This BBS version of the L'Chaim publication, was prepared for BBS
>distribution by Reuven Blau, Sysop of L'Chaim BBS, KESHERnet N.Y.
>718-756-7201. Please address all questions or comments via the Chassidus
>echo on any world wide KESHERnet BBS or netmail directly to the Sysop of
>L'chaim BBS (Fido net. 278/610).
>
I don't have a Chumash with me, but didn't this exchange take place in Vayigash???

Yaakov didn't come to Mizrayim until after the Maaseh with Binyamin and Yehudah, 
and by Vayichi, he had already passed on!



---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: "rob brickman" <rob.brickman@canrem.com>
Subject: jewish charities
Reply-To: "rob brickman" <rob.brickman@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:37:40 EST

(Continued from the previous message)

programming because people held back their support for reasons that have nothing
to do with the rightness of the issues and everything to do with making a
political statement.  I'd like to hear everyone's input on this whole issue.
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #12525  Married to an Eshet Chayil (she told me herself!)
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Feld Brothers
Originator: schwartz@baba
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 21:56:22 GMT


In article <1992Dec23.203231.4038@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> I say let the court system work it out. There's something odd
> here that means it's not at all clear that an injustice is being
> done.

Having seen the release of the murderers of Meir Kahane and Yankel
Rosenbaum, I'm not convinced that "work it out" always works.
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:50:14 GMT

dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

> Second, I do not accept that Hamas are a terrorist organisation.  Up  to
> now they have killed only Israeli soldiers or policemen in uniform.  For
> many years Israel has stood in illegal occupation of Palestinian  lands,
> and  several  thousand  unarmed  Palestinian men women and children have
> been killed by  Israeli  forces.   When  Hamas  starts  killing  Israeli
> civilians  they will have sunk to the level of the Zionist state, but up
> to now they seem to be operating on a higher moral standard.

Let me get this straight.  Kidnapping a policeman and then murdering
him shows a high moral standard, right?  And summary execution of other
Palestinians does the same, right?  Personally, I feel deportation to
be indicative of a higher moral standard than wanton murder.  Silly me.

If the Israelis are so evil and Hamas so cuddly and cute, why are so
many more Palestinians killed by their own people than by Israelis
in the Intifada?

Let me be clear.  I'm not condoning Israeli actions, but I'm just a
bit curious about your morality scale.

-Don Gertler
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Talmud on determining sex
Date: 28 Dec 92 06:50:53 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <1992Dec25.053417.27287@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:

[MS] How do you explain boy-girl twins? ;-)

Haven't you ever heard of a couple both having an orgasm at the same time? :-)

I guess it is harder explaining with triplets and more :-)


Tsiel

-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:23:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <72286@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

>music, and a buck is a buck. Was there ever a Hanakuh hit record?

I understand Tom Lehrer had a song "I'm spending Chanuka in Santa Monica."

I wish I could get a copy of it.  Anyone else even heard of this one?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: haneins@acf3.nyu.edu (shirley hanein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: archives
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:10:06 GMT
Organization: New York University




where can i get the archives for scj?
do they exist? 

thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:09:31 GMT


Steven Schwartz is correct. Chabad won in the Supreme Court with the
argument that the Menorah was secular.

That is (watch closely) to non-Jews it can be taken as a symbol of an
undisputed event authenticated by non-religious historical
experts--the struggle of the Maccabees against the Greeks.

The tree is in a similar position. To Jews it can be though of as
not unlike some Halloween symbols--seasonal, derived from pagan
solstice celebrations, etc.

The creche is different, since many non-Christians don't acknowledge
the virgin birth, the magi, or any of the other things which the
creche symbolizes, and there is no non-religious historical evidence
for those events.

I'm not sure about how one would argue the Star of David or the
Cross using the above model, so I'll stop here.

By the way, given the Supreme Court declaration that the Menorah is
secular, those who care should re-argue with those public bodies
and shopping centers who had claimed the tree secular but the
Menorah not.

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Jewish Charities, Round II
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:18:19 GMT

While I share a distaste for what I consider overly generous
compensation in some quarters, I also feel it important not to "throw
the baby out with the bathwater."

Virtually all the charities mentioned do extremely important work and
should be supported while more volunteers get involved and help change
their priorities, not to mention trying to consolidate overlapping
organizations whose very existences waste funds.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaust jokes (was Re: To all Jews)
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:51:03 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I think using the words "holocaust" and "joke" in the same title is quite
tasteless. If "jokes" of this kind must be told, why not call them something
else?

David Maddison
Melbourne, Australia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 18:58:20 GMT

In article <9212281716.AA18822@cyclone.sbi.com>, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:
|> esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern) writes:
|> 
|> > Jewish pop stars?
|> > 
|> > How About:
|> > 
|> > 
|> > 	Paul Simon
|> > 	Art Garfunkel
|> > 	Billy Joel
|> 
|> I don't think Billy Joel is Jewish.
|> 
|> -Don Gertler

He has stated that his mother is Jewish in more than one radio interview,
including one on Israeli radio when he toured there a few years ago.  He
also mentioned getting beaten as a kid up for being Jewish.

In another post, someone repeated the old rumor that Cat Stevens is
Jewish.  The full story is that his original name was apparantly
"Steven Katz".  However, I've never seen any verification of this rumor,
and I think it's just a legend.  Anyone know of any proof?

BTW, Cat Stevens is now an ardent PLO supporter.
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Feld Brothers
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:42:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com

In article <1992Dec23.203231.4038@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>If the news article is accurate and they found ski masks and plastic
>handcuffs in the trunk, either we're going to be treated to a rather
>more delectable explanation than that the two kitchen knives were
>for keeping Kosher, or the Feld Brothers are part of next year's
>Cirque du Soleil, and have an act in which they ski down a hill
>handcuffed.
>
 [deleted to save space]

A previous post explained this as follows:

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
>From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Urgent Appeal-Jerusalem Rabbi Mistakenly Arrested!
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:15:27 GMT

	I was discussing this with my military rabbi a week (2 weeks?)
ago.  The "handcuffs" are the pull-type bands used by police during riot
control.  They also happened to be used to hogtie sheep when they're
being sheared; as I understand it, the rabbis help raise sheep.  It
turns out that they're considerably cheaper to buy here in bulk than in
Israel. 

	They're being held without bail because the police involved
think that they've arrested a Mossad hit squad.  One of the rabbis was
carrying a business card (in Hebrew).  On the card was a word they got
translated-- "mossad."  Mossad means group, and if they had bothered to
translate the rest of the card, they would have discovered that it was
referring to the local (Israeli) soccer team the rabbi is involved with.
Even so, doesn't it seem strange that a Mossad hit-man would carry a
business card to that effect?

______________________________________________________________________

To answer the question why didn't they translate the rest of the
card a poster answered:

that the card said "MOSAD MACCABEE" which is the name of the
sports group.  They asked a local person what "Mosad" was and got
told Israeli Secret Service.  They then asked what "Macabee" was
and got told "A group of Jewish warriors whose victory is being
celebrated now".  They immediately thought of a secret service
hit squad cult of Jewish warriors.

>
>David
>-- 
>David Sternlight
>RIPEM key on server


-- 
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: "rob brickman" <rob.brickman@canrem.com>
Subject: jewish charities (#2)
Reply-To: "rob brickman" <rob.brickman@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:25:21 EST

(Continued from the previous message)

political statement.  I would really welcome everyone's input on this (my
fingers are getting sore!)

Rob Brickman
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #12525  Married to an Eshet Chayil (she told me herself!)
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Don't waste your time
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:30:48 GMT

In article <Dec19.213703.36177@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>To all the so-called Jews who defend their right
>to mock the Jewish people: Don't waste your time
>on sending me e-mail -- I'll be out of your hair 
>for a month.  

How about forever!

>
>Merry Christmas	 === Here it is Chanukkah, NOT SHrismas!

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals should be allowed into the military
Followup-To: elsewhere
Originator: schwartz@baba
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:13:16 GMT


In article <lexier.725574259@sfu.ca>, lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Mr. Spock) writes:
> 
>      Gays are just like you and me.  Why discriminate against them?

Because of their propensity for posting to the wrong newsgroup.  :-)
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Reich, Rubin, Kanter?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:57:53 GMT


Yes? Anyone else?

-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Subject: Re: Mezuza question
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:33:13 GMT

In article <1hnu5mINNasn@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@ra.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.191850.4685@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
>>If the new owner is not Jewish, then you must remove the old
>>mezuzah.  If you don't know the new owners then it would be best
>>to take the old mezuzas to your new how.  If the new owners would
>>use a mezuza themselves then it may be best to bring up the issue
>>(you can say you would prefer to take the mezuzas).  In either
>>case, it would be best to first get the mezuzas checked to make
>>sure they are still kosher.
>>| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
>
>According to Encyclopedia Judaica, if the new owners are Jewish then you
>must leave the mezuzas on the house, otherwise take them with you.
 ^^^^
Well, that is not correct. Say, I am moving in and you are moving out. I
tell you that you can remove your mezuzot because I would like to put up
my own. If I say that you should remove your mezuzot. 

Thanks,
Dima
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
From: armagan@sassafras (Armagan Ozdinc)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Federasyon Kupasi'ndan bazi sonuclar
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:57:41 GMT
Reply-To: armagan@prc.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems

In article <1992Dec23.162306.11531@kodak.kodak.com>, erkam@acadia.Kodak.COM (Yusuf Murat Erkam) writes:

|> Tek ayak uzerinden yapilan Federasyon Kupasi ceyrek final oncesi
|> maclarindan bazilarinin sonuclari soyle:
|> 
|> Fenerbahce-Genclerbirligi	: 5-2
|> Trabzonspor-Kayserispor  	: 2-1
|> Sariyer-Altay		: 6-2
|> Kocaelispor-Alanyaspor       : 6-2
|> Canakkale-Ankaragucu		: 1-0 (sudden death overtime)
|> Bartinspor-Galatasaray	: 1-4 (70. dakikadaki skor)
Mac 4-1 sonuclandi
|> Besiktas-Aydinspor		: ?
Gece maci olarak oynaniyor su anda

----------------------------------------------------------------
 ARMAGAN A. OZDINC
 Paramax Systems, Valley Forge Labs, Research and Development
________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish