HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: QUERY ABOUT NEW OPERA
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:29:10 GMT

In article <BzDGGC.5LA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:
>
>This week, last night here, George Jellineck introduced a new Finnish
>opera in his program The Vocal Scene. I caught snatches of it and
>didn't get the name of the composer (a Swedish friend wondered if it
>was Sallinen). He played excerpts from a performance given in LA,
>earlier this year I think, but I don't remember the name of the
>conductor either (it was not Esa Pekka Salonen). Most of the cast was
>Finnish, but the only name I recognized was Matti Salminen's.
>
>Anyhow, the opera is called KOULLERVO(sp?) and is based on the
>Finnish mythical figure of that name. It is to be performed at the
>opening of the new opera house in Helsinki late next year.
>
>Does anyone know where I can get more information about this work?
>Presumably a recording exists, Jellineck had it from some source
>after all. Does anyone know anything of this broadcast recording or
>any other recording? I shall, in the meantime, try to get these
>answers from other sources as well.
>
>Thanks.
>
>				Sami Mitra




Sallinen's _Kullervo_ appeared on the Finlandia label a few months ago.  
You liked what you heard?









Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: St. Matthew Passion
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:54:28

In article <BzCxJp.K42@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon) writes:

>One of the most memorable musical experiences of my life was an Easter
>performance of the Matthew Passion in Munich in 1973 under Karl Richter.
>Last night I picked up the corresponding DGG/Archive CD set ($21 at the
>Tower Annex in the Village, if you're interested), and I'm very taken
>with it. But I'd be interested in others' views on this piece and this
>performance, and on other recommendable issues.

  St. Matthew Passion is one of my first loves, too. I own a set where
  the conductor is Philippe Herreweghe, and IMHO there can hardly be
  a better recording (it's Harmonia Mundi 901155.57). It is warm, lively,
  mysterious, whatever...

  I think it was Richter's recording I took home from the library a few
  months ago. Sorry to say, but as I am accustomed to the modern
  interpretations, it sounded nearly funny, it was so oldfashioned,
  so slow and the way in which some of the soloists sung, is quite too heavy.
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: schoenberg lieder
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:44:37 GMT

In article <1gsiloINNqk4@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>Tal Herbsman (talh@quip.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
>: 
>: i've been looking some time now for songs similar to the schoenberg
>: op. 2 songs and cabaret songs. i've tried all the usual suspects including
>: zemlinsky, wolf, strauss, mahler, sherck. while each is wonderful in his own
>: right, they dont strike me as unabashedly lyrical as the shornberg songs.
>: or maybe i confuse unabashed lyricism with shameless romanticism. 
>
>May I suggest (as Cabaret Songs by classical composers)
>
>Satie: Je te veux, La Diva de l"empire
>Roussel: Jazz dans la nuit, Hotel, Voyage a Paris, Fetes Galantes, C'est ainsi
>Eisler: Kupplerin, Wienerlied
>Britten: Tell me the truth about love
>

``Jazz dans la nuit'' is by Rousel, but to my mind nothing like
a cabaret song (I find the title misleading) or like early Schonberg.

But I don't think that the other songs you have listed under Roussel
are by him.  Poulenc wrote wonderfully atmospheric songs called
``Hotel'' and ``C'est ainsi que tu es.''  But I would say
Poulenc's best song for a cabaret is ``Chemins d'amour''.  You
could also consider ``Violon'' in that category.

I would think the most obvious cabaret songs in response to the
question are those of Kurt Weill.

An ``unabashedly lyrical'' Schoneberg song is ``Geubtes Herz'', but
I don't know what opus number it is.  If it is not Opus 2, then
that is what Tal Herbsman is surely looking for.

Richard

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield)
Subject: Re: NEWS: Pavarotti booed out of the SCALA
Organization: Coordinating Centers For Biometric Research, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:14:41 GMT

Yeah, okay, but how was Samuel Ramey?  :-)



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: One-work-composers
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:39:39 GMT

ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
: In article <1992Dec11.174114.11779@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
: >: In article <1992Dec10.193345.12981@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >: >
: >: >No I can't buy that, not on the strength of this one piece - enjoyable
: >: >though it is. And Mahler wasn't popular until the 1960s really, except
: >: >as a conductor. Rott is an interesting sideline, but all this 'he was
: >: >where Mahler's inspiration comes from' garbage is, I think, just that.
: >: >We might just as well take up Mahler's own opinion that his younger
: >: >brother - can't remember his name - who died, would have been a far
: >: >greater composer.
: >: >
: >: 
: >: Have you listened to the third movement of the Rott?  I haven't heard
: >: something so blatantly plagiarized in some time. Perhaps I did exaggerate
: >: a bit, but I do think it's fair to say that Mahler was certainly inspired
: >: enough by Rott to make blatant use of his style, themes, and characteristic
: >: rhythms and orchestrations, at least in his first symphony.  Of course,
: >: Mahler plagiarized from lots of people (I'm not knocking Mahler, I love
: >: Mahler, but facts are facts).  My basis for saying that Rott may very
: >: well have exceeded Mahler in popularity is quite simply because he is
: >: more accesible.  I know I would have loved to see how he would have 
: >: developed his style in later works.
: >
: >No this is simply untrue. Mahler didn't see the score of Rott's
: >symphony until the early 1900s. Das Klagende Lied - which as the
: >composer said contains 'all the Mahler you know' - is as early, if not
: >earlier, than Rott's symphony. This is precisly what I meant: let's
: >run down Mahler because of some stylistic similarities with this
: >unknown. They studied together, they were friends, it's as simple as
: >that.
: >
: >Mahler was a genius, Rott may have been but we can't say for sure.
: >--
: >Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
: >Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
: >Phone: +1 604 370 4452
: 
: I was not "running down" Mahler. He is one of my favorite composers. 
: When was Mahler's first symphony written? Just out of interest...

The symphony "No.1" dates from 1888, but it is accepted that he had
written probably at least 4 before that. The conductor Willem
Mengelberg recalled an all night session spent at the house of the
Weber family (descendants of the composer) in - perhaps - the 1920s,
playing through the manuscripts of 4 unknown Mahler symphonies which
he had entrusted to Baroness von Weber. As the family lived in Dresden
it is unlikely that the manuscripts survived......
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: re: Bela Bartok info.
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:59:11 GMT

In article <92350.134032MLH119@psuvm.psu.edu> <MLH119@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Could anyone tell me what the name of the piece of Bartok's music that was
>used in the soundtrack to the movie, The Shining.
>Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Michael Hock --- MLH119 at PSUVM

I believe you're thinking of the _Music for Strings, Percussion,
and Celesta_.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: olin@vger.cheme.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Reply-To: olin@vger.cheme.cornell.edu
Organization: Chemical Engineering, Cornell University, NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:32:17 GMT

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?

Well, this changes from time to time. Right now, I would have to say the
end of the last movement of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony.

Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Thompson, System Mangler   Internet: thompson@cheme.cornell.edu
School of Chemical Engineering   Bitnet:   thompson@crnlchme
Olin Hall, Cornell University    Phone:    (607) 255 5573
Ithaca NY 14853
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: Re: Bartok Piano Concerto Recommendations?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:15:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.022412.7203@netcom.com> hamish@netcom.com
(Just Another Deckchair on the Titanic) writes:
>
>Does anyone out there have any strongly-held preferences for particular
>recordings of the Bartok Piano Concertos (either together or
>individually). I long ago lost my old Geza Anda recordings; what's
>*good* out there now? Opinions please....

Stephen Bishop Kovacevich and Colin Davis (LSO and BBC SO),
Philips 426 660-2, one mid-price CD.  Nos. 1 and 2 are ferocious,
with the most dissonant passages savored rather than smoothed
over.  No. 3 is quite beautiful in parts, especially the Adagio.
The recordings date from 1968 and 1975, but are startlingly clear.

The Penguin Guide and others have raved about Zoltan Kocsis's
recent digital set on Philips.  I'm in the minority of people
who find it awfully bland, and would not recommend it -- especially
on three full-price CDs (though you do get other pieces thrown in).

Carl Tait

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Subject: Re: Recorded using B&W speakers
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:54:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.162812.19909@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
}I've seen a few CDs with notes indicating that they were recorded
}"using B&W speakers."  My question is, how are loudspeakers "used"
}in a recording and what influence do they have on the quality of
}a recording?

It means that B&W speakers were used to evaluate the recording while it
was being made.  This is what happens (and I've been present for several
such sessions):

The recording engineer sets up all the microphones he's apt to need all
over the orchestra; stereo pairs here and there; accent mikes, whatever.
Wires from all these mikes are run out of the auditorium and way, way,
way down the hall to a small room, usually the Green Room, where all the
recording equipment is set up.  There is also a pair of speakers set up
just like they would be in a living room.  

This setup allows the engineer to evaluate the balance as it will sound
in a home environment.  

The reason B&W speakers are mentioned is because B&W supplied the
speakers without cost in return for the blurb.  

-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: 78s and quick tempos
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:49:34 EST

CC>As my CD library grows, I am becoming more and more insterested in
  >historical performances.  Recently, I bought some CD remasterings of 78s,
  >most notably the 10-disc Rachmaninov box set (RCA) and the Schnabel
  >Beethoven sonata cycle (EMI).  I remember reading somewhere that since 78s
  >couldn't hold very much music on a side, recorded performances tended
  >toward the fast side.  Is this true?  Was that really a factor?  I have
  >noticed that older performances are often faster, but I thought that was
  >just the convention of the day (or the particular conductor at hand).

This debate will never end, I'm sure. But I, for one, cannot believe
that the *majority* of first-rank performers would, as a group, agree to
butcher their creative vision to save a side of a 78. A 78, BTW,
typically held under 4 minutes. Performances had to be stopped and
started to accommodate. Nasty business, really.

Can you comment a little on the Rhakmaninov? I have heard much of this
on LP, but it's been a while. Are the CD transfers lifelike (given
their age)?

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: wagner and jews?
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:21:20 EST

JR>Richard Strauss is another matter; I've long understood that he was a
  >paid-up member of the Nazi party.

You could be right re: R Strauss's genuine Nazi leanings. But let's not
forget he turned 80 in 1944 (in fact there is an 80th birthday
celebration performance of Ariadne auf Naxos conducted by Karl Boehm
that has been on DGG from time to time). I'm not sure how may people of
his age would not be willing to turn a blind eye to the politics of the
day and be able to deny to themselves that horrors were occurring.

I remain baffled how ANYONE can continue to exist in places such as a
war zone -- but people do. Why would anyone continue to live in Beirut,
for example? Add Strauss's prestige and pampering by local officials and
it must have been very difficult to find a way out.

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: NEWS: Pavarotti booed out of the SCALA
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:12:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.193207.2286@linus.mitre.org> rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer) writes:

>In article <Bz3tvA.HGt@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:

>>.  The one time I've booed was for a baritone singing
>>Germont in Philadelphia, who went flat on every single phrase as well as
>>scooping from below into every single note (not just first notes of
>>phrases).

>Now wait a minute Jon.  This seems to me a serious contradiction.
>If he constantly sang flat, he must have been scooping from below
>into something other than the actual notes.  Perhaps scooping
>from the depths but never reaching the surface?

I beg to differ, Richard.  No contradiction at all.  He scooped AND he
flatted.  Let me illustrate graphically on the 3-note unaccompanied
phrase which comes near the end of the Germont-Violetta duet: "Addio."

The notes comprise 2 steps down, so it should go like

Ad-
       di-
               o.

But he scooped into every note, so he actually sang 6 pitches:
   ad-
Ah-      i-
      di-    o.
           o-

And since each "intended" note was actually successively flatter than
the previous one, it came out more like:
   ad-
Ah-
         i-
      di-
             o.
           o-

Really.  It was excruciating.  I wanted to cheer the soprano (Rosario
Andrade) who managed to come in on her correct note despite all that,
but the baritone deserved to be booed.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield)
Subject: Too Polite (was Re: news: pavarotti booed out
Organization: Coordinating Centers For Biometric Research, University of Minnesota
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:05:31 GMT

I live in Minnesota, "Home of the Obligatory Standing Ovation" (tm).
I have never been to a concert where there wasn't a SO, whether
the performance was good, bad, or indifferent.

So, my questions:  Does this happen anywhere else?  And what are *your*
criteria for a standing ovation?  What has to happen to bring you
to your feet?

Jill
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: golub@nwu.edu (Robert Golub)
Subject: Re: Which MEFISTOFELES CD?
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:44:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.173605.25810@news2.cis.umn.edu>,
jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) wrote:

> Though I haven't heard the recording, and have absolutely no label
> information, I do know that in the past year, a new recording with
> Samuel Ramey and Placido Domingo was released.  If Sam Ramey made
> the SF production for you (and god knows he did for me!) then this
> might be the way to go, though reviews of the recording that I read
> were a bit lukewarm.
> 
> Any opinions from anyone who's actually heard the recording?

Funny, I just listened to it again yesterday! I can't compare it to any
other recordings, only the performance at Lyric Opera of Chicago 2 seasons
ago (with Ramey). It is a European recording; I don't recall the label for
sure (Hungaraton?), but I can get it for you if you like.

It is generally good, with some powerful scenes (like the end of the
Angel's Chorus) and good lyrical moments. Some of the sound was a little
thin, but still very enjoyable.

-Rob

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Robert M. Golub, M.D.           Division of General Internal Medicine
222 E. Superior                 Northwestern University Medical School
Chicago, IL 60611               E-mail: golub@nwu.edu   Voice:(312)908-8630
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: wmc@photon.com (Bill Cornette)
Subject: Bayreuther/Phillips Series
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:23:41 GMT

	I saw a CD from Phillips in the store that appears to be advertising
a Wager series.  I got a similar CD in Munich two years ago that advertised
their Mosart series.  It appears that they will (have?) released CD's, videos,
and whatever on the Wagner opera (plus some of his other works???) performances
at Bayreuth.
	Anybody know anything about this?  I haven't seen any of the main
releases, just this sampler/teaser.  Any comments? Reviews? Where to write to
find out more?

	As an aside, the CD was packed in a very thin plastic box, about half
the thickness of the regular CD box -- nice touch for cutting down on 
shelf/stoage space.

Thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
William M. Cornette         Photon Research Associates, Inc.
(619) 455-9741              9393 Towne Centre Drive, Suite 200
FAX (619) 455-0658          San Diego, California  92121
wmc@photon.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L.
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Do U.S. clarinet sections use identical instruments?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:27:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

Stephen Cranefield, coscsjc@otago.ac.nz, writes:
>In a recent symphonic band workshop we in the clarinet section noticed
>that between us there were a fair number of different brands of
>clarinet: Buffet, Leblanc, Yamaha (Custom), Boosey & Hawkes, Noblet
>and Wurlitzer.  This reminded me of something I once read (possibly in
>one of Jack Brymer's books) claiming that some wind bands and
>orchestras in the U.S. try to achieve a uniformity of sound in their
>clarinet sections by demanding that the players play on identical
>instruments -- and possibly also similar mouthpiece and reed setups.
>Is this really true?  I find it hard to believe that this would
>achieve anything given that different clarinettist's sounds (and
>desired sounds) can vary so widely.

I recall a few years ago reading that the Los Angeles Philharmonic's
clarinet section all used Wurlitzer instruments, a brand that is 
fairly rare in the U.S.  Issues of "The Clarinet" magazine provide profiles 
of major clarinet sections, including equipment details.  Try looking there.

--James Langdell      jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems    Mountain View, Calif.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Subject: Re: The worst composer in a millenium
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:07:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.235226.15965@Princeton.EDU> langs@puhep1.princeton.edu (David Langs) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.165335.17469@news.columbia.edu> rsm13@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ravi S Moorthy) writes:
>>I had the misfortune of buying Oliver Messiaen's "Turangalila Symphony"
>>conducted by Rattle.  To give credit where it is due, it is the worst
>>music I have ever heard.  Pardon me Messiaen lovers, but I cannot make
>>any sense of his mumbling mystecism or the interminable bird calls.
>>
>>Ravi
>
>Hmmmm.  You must have just been reading Jim Svejda's book since you
>quoted his review almost verbatim.
(stuff deleted)
>The big, colorful orchestral sounds can be riveting.

And quite bombastic if I may say so

>
>I must admit, I know people who place it at the top of their list of
>least favorite works.  (I don't know why).  I must also add that I have
>not yet acquired a taste for much of Messian's other work.  His organ
>works give me a headache, and I am just slowly beginning to make peace
>with the Quartet for the End of Time.
>
>
>
>-- 
>                           Dave Langs
>                           Dept. of Physics
>                           Princeton University
>                           langs@puhep1.Princeton.EDU


Well, let me say that I *have* acquired a taste for his other work, in
particular his organ stuff. "La Nativite du Seigneur" and the "Visions
de l'Amen" come to my mind as works which are much stronger
structurally than the Symphony. I think that the last two movements
just do not fit the atmosphere of the rest of the composition very
well, and their garish orchestration repeatedly puts the music on the
verge of vulgarity. This is not to deny that there are very good
things in the work; you yourself pointed out the beautiful use of the
ondes Martenot, but IMHO, this is a work that has been somewhat
critically overrated. A flawed masterpiece, if there ever was such a
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: Re: more on music & Nazis
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:25:56 GMT

This discussion reminds me that 50 years ago, on Nov. 1, the promising young German
composer and performer, Hugo Distler, committed suicide because he could no
longer reconcile trying to work and live under the Nazis.