HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: European language?
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:54:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.122500.8151@ericsson.se>, etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se
(John Dryselius TG/HB) writes:
>In article 21108@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU, luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano
>Lavagno) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug25.122500.8151@ericsson.se>, etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se
>(John Dryselius TG/HB) writes:
>>>If we can learn English, it must be possible for them too.
>(Them = Italians, Portoguese(sp?), Spanish)
>
>>
>>Well, this seems a bit simplistic. It is much easier to learn WELL a
>germanic
>>language if you already know one, and a neo-latin language if you already
>know
>>one.
>>So no matter how long I study, I will always be a better speaker of French,
>>Spanish or Italian than German, Swedish or English (and the fact that the
>>latter  have many words with neo-latin origin matters little, except for
>>solving crosswords).
>
>Interesting point. What do you think will happen if you had to use your
>English
>more, if you were exposed for it in your daily life?

I had to use it every day, since 1988, when I moved to Berkeley, California. It
improved, of course (within the limits of my deep Italian accent :-) ), but I
can still understand a French movie better than an American or British one,
even though I never lived in Paris.

>I have a feeling that the lower level of English understanding in Germany,
>Italy, France 
>etc. than in the scandinavian countries are not due to the education but raher
>the fact
>that we are exposed to English every day, by TV for instance. What do you
>think of that?
>Could it be one explanation?

Exposure to the language certainly matters, especially in your younger years.
As far as I know, between 4 and 10 you can pick up ANY language, even many of
them together, as your "native" language.
I was exposed, when I was young, to Italian and "Piemontese" (an Italian
dialect that is very close to French in some aspects). So I guess that explains
my current relationship with English.
By the way, I always surprise my English speaking friends because I use a very
elaborate vocabulary, of neo-latin descent, while they are "stuck" with the
simpler everyday anglo-saxon words :-)
Ciao !
Luciano

-- 
Luciano Lavagno            luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU            +1-510-642-5012
Dept. of EECS, 207-69 Cory Hall, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
From: aflynn@osc.COM (Anthony Flynn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: M*tl* filter
Keywords: The M-word, Jive, Valley-speak, Swedish Chef Bork-Bork-Bork
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:35:57 GMT
Organization: Versant Object Technology, Menlo Park, CA

Just an idea, but would anyone (with more time on their hands
than I have at the moment) care to write a "Mutlu Filter"
in the style of, say "Jive", "Valley-Speak", or "Swedish Chef"
which took otherwise normal text and output diatribe and
invective in the style of you-know-who?

See the recent posting of "Swedish Chef" program in alt.sources
for further details and inspiration.

That way, we can all join in.

Teshekur Eleram (???)
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: The Aboriginal Government and other such
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:05:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.154237.21969@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>The disguised Serafim Efrastiatidis (efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu) writes:
>>Nope. No one would take you seriously. Likewise, when the Skopje puppet
>>governent suggests that Skopje be called `Macedonia' and the Bulgarians
>>in Skopje be called `Macedonians', how do do you expect the world to take
>>THAT seriously?
>
>Most people seems to take them seriously. Few people seems to take
>Greece seriously. The situations of realpolitik has caused something
>which may give a different impression
>

	Oh yea ? How about the UN, USA and the EC ? Who supports
the Skopjien position. Whatch the answer in the second part.

>>Tells us you, sophomore Erland: do the Albanians of Skopje
>>who correspond to about 35-40% of the population want to be called
>>`Macedonians'?
>
>I doubt. And I doubt that anyone is calling them that. There
>are Swedes in Finland, but no one is calling them Finns.
>--

	Well then you don't know why y walked out of parlament ??
Check again.




 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se


	George
From: murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Had enough
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:48:07 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.




I've had enough of this too. Ralph Kutzner just about summed up my thoughts on
this Mutlu affair too. Goodbye, Mr Mutlu.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Re: The Aboriginal Government and other such
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:26:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: factory.3827.3244.uupcb
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis


MK>From: morten@oase.kemi.aau.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard)
MK>Then some netters get all uptight about some star of Alexandre the Great or
MK>something alledgedly being stolen by the new Republic of Macedonia. What's
MK>the big deal about a star? It's just flag for crying out loud!!! Stealing a
MK>STAR?.... give us a break!!!!!!

 400,000 Greeks died in WWII in the name of the "Macedonian Reunification"
 advocated by the then Bulgarian government. Give their resting souls a break.
 Tell me, why should Greece accept the validity of an arguement that has
 been used 3 times in the past to start wars in the Balkans?
 Why should the (Real)Macedonian people sit and watch the name that
 describes them being misused for political reasons by the government of
 Skopjie?
 If it is just a name, why does the Government of Skopjie give it up? They
 would have been recognised by the international community months ago had they
 not been so stubborn. Greece also has the right to be stubborn on this issue,
 and since so far Greece has been highly successful in its efforts, I see
 no reason for them to back off right now.

MK>/Morten

Michael.
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . This tagline is umop apisdn
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: OMEDEI SUPPORTS MACEDONIA (So what?)
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:53:25 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <3825.3244.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) writes:
>    <...> if you read my posting in S.C.GREEK you will realise that
>    what is going on in Greece right now is very similar to what would
>    happen in every country in the world under similar circumstances:
>
>    In the US, a relatively apolitical country, expressions of
>    patriotism during Desert Storm reached the highest points of
>    silliness:

So they did, but why would the Greeks (or any other nation, for that
matter) want to behave in a silly way just because the Americans did?
(You may call it "silly", I would call it "monstruous", but that is a
different matter.)

In any case, make sure you aren't using the wrong analogies.  You
don't want to imply, I'm sure, that Greece has as much business in
Macedonia as the US had in Iraq (i.e. none).

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
From: john@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (John Blasik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: mutlu shit
Date: 27 Aug 92 05:10:20 GMT
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

berne@nova1.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne) writes:
>Ralph Kutzner signs off:
>>
>>P.S.  Kill files are not the solution
>
>I don't agree. I haven't read any hbm's post for weeks now, thanks to my KILL
>file. Any time I want to read its trash I have to seek one of its post among
>the junked posts. My kill file automatically junks its hate-mails,
>and send them to its postmaster.
>So I believe KILL files are a solution good enough. For me, at least.

If you run a small USENET site and can't afford the modem time, i-nodes, etc.,
kill files do no good. Due to the massive cross posts the "final solution"
is to drop the feed for soc.culture.* and talk.politics.*

-- john
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
From: prizsi@a-l3wl07.cern.ch (Miklos Prisznya'k)
Subject: Re: Kezet csokolom
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:19:38 GMT

mnu@nairobi.inel.gov (Rick Morneau) writes:

>Is the phrase "Kezet csokolom" still commonly used in Hungary by
>a man when he greets a woman? Is it considered old-fashioned?

>Thanks!

Rick



Yes, I think that's still quite common when a man greets a woman who is some tens of years
older than he is.. Fortunately, 'Kisztihand' (the distorted German version of this ) is almost
dead. :-)  ) 
 Moreover children are still taught to greet adults this way, mainly in rural areas.

 So the answer to your question really is that some people try to avoid it and they consider
 this greeting old-fashioned and some happily use it. After all they don't really mean it :-)

 Cheers,
        Miklos

 PS: You had a nice long disclaimer.. Now this question of yours wasn't so risky perhaps.. :-)

 PPS: Though one never knows.. Once I heard a rather wild quarrel over that question what is 
 "eperfa" and what is "szederfa".. :-)  ( It's the same tree called in different names in 
 different regions of Hungary. The English name escapes me now, anyway silk worms feed solely
 on the leaves of that tree.)
From: ml@vcp1.vcp.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Hungary:Ukraine friendly.
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:57:54 GMT

G'day,


A small snippet I found in an Australian newspaper, 'The Australian':


Hungary- Friendly International.
       Hungary:Ukraine              2:1


That's all there was.  Now I have some questions.
   1.  Anyone has a match report on this match?
   2.  Is this Ukraine's first international ever (even thought it is a
       friendly)?
   3.  Where was this match played?  Budapest, Debrecen, Gyor, ect?

Note:  the last fortnight Hungary has been going through a heatwave.  I don't
think temperatures had gone below 30C maximum.



Cheers,
Mik.

/*****************************************************************************\
*    Mik Lipcsey, Computer Systems Officer, Victorian College of Pharmacy,    *
*         Monash University, 381 Royal Parade, Parkville, Australia.          *
* Aarnet:  ml@vcp.monash.edu.au  *  'Open the Pod Bay Door, please, HAL' 2001 *
>*****************************************************************************<
* I am home, I know the way,             \_____---- 'Evening falls...' (1988) *
* I am home, feeling, oh, so far away... /                   Roma Ryan & Enya *
* For so great a treasure, words will never do... ---------- 'Angeles' (1991) *
\*****************************************************************************/
From: uelaczin@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Eva Laczina)
Subject: Re: Info on Bekes ??
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:07:32 GMT


What specific information did you have in mind?  Did you want to know
about the area or the goegraphy, etc?  There's lots and lots of
info on all three towns/cities.  I think a little specificity would
help the readers/repliers.

Keep 'em coming!

Eva
uelaczin@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
From: tfa@alfred.cadence.com (Tom Anderson)
Subject: Info on Bekes ??
Summary: Info Request
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:37:21 GMT


Does anyone have information on 
the town of Bekes near Bekescaba, Gyula and Szeged ?
(Also info on the region would be helpful).

I am trying to get in touch with a school there
  Szegedi Kis Istvan Gimnazium.
(My daughter is teaching there.)

Thanks,
	Tom Anderson  (tfa@cadence.com)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
From: prizsi@a-l3wl07.cern.ch (Miklos Prisznya'k)
Subject: Re: AGORA-SCMPOST RFE/RL reports (excerpts)
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:53:20 GMT

FEKETE@bcvms.bc.edu (Zoli Fekete) writes:
> 
>ROMANIAN REACTIONS TO TOKES'S PROTEST FAST.  President Ion Iliescu
>released to the media an open letter addressed to the Magyar
>bishop Laszlo Tokes.  Iliescu rejects as unfounded Tokes's
>accusations of government laxity in prosecuting those responsible
>for anti-Hungarian actions. Among other things, the letter claims
>that the ethnic clashes in Tirgu Mures in March 1990 were
>"fomented from abroad" and began when "massive groups" of
>Hungarian citizens visiting Romania "behaved in an objectionable
>manner." Iliescu says Tokes is resorting to "spectacular gestures"

 Do they believe this themselves????  

 Though I can recall that a Hungarian citizen behaved in an objectionable
 manner some months before that. ( Around New Year's Eve..) He carried 
 food and aid to Romania during the mock-revolution and he was shot dead.
 There are three orphans left. That could be called that way, perhaps, 
 Mr. Iliescu. ( No, his title should be "Camerade" instead.. )

>that could be dangerous for the country's tranquillity before the
>elections.  The Democratic National Salvation Front, on whose
>ticket Iliescu is running in the elections, accused Tokes of
>staging the fast on the orders of the CIA and other intelligence


 Yes, it's *very* reasonable that the CIA has an interest in this.
 Everybody knows that whenever a Communist regime seeks enemies and
 would-be victims then the name of the CIA must be involved in... :-(

>services, according to Reuters. And the extreme nationalist
>Greater Romania Party said the action signals "the beginning of a
>series of diversions" that could "lead to ethnic clashes and
>bloodshed" before the elections. (Michael Shafir)
>

 ethnic clashes and bloodshed = pogroms against Hungarians in Transylvania
                                ( a la March, 1990 : *all* the victims were
                                  either Gypsies or Hungarians... )


>The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
>Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)


  Miklos
From: FEKETE@bcvms.bc.edu (Zoli Fekete)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
Subject: AGORA-SCMPOST RFE/RL report on Jozsef Antall and Istvan Csurka
Date: 1 Sep 1992 08:51:12 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: fekete@bcvms.bc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

ANTALL DISTANCES HIMSELF FROM CSURKA PAMPHLET.  On 31 August, the
first day of parliamentary session after the summer break, Prime
Minister Jozsef Antall distanced himself from the "political
pamphlet" written recently by Istvan Csurka, vice-president of the
governing Democratic Forum, MTI reports.  Antall called Csurka's
critical study of the performance of the Democratic Forum and the
government "politically harmful" because it gave wrong answers to
important questions. Antall stressed that neither he, his cabinet,
nor the party have identified with those answers. Antall was also
critical of a leading liberal member of his party, Jozsef
Debreczeni, who took the debate outside the party by publishing an
answer to Csurka's essay in the opposition daily Nepszabadsag.
(Judith Pataki, RFE/RL, Inc.)
 
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
with the assistance of the RFE/RL News and Current Affairs
Division (NCA). The report is available by electronic mail
via LISTSERV (RFERL-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU), on the
Sovset' computer bulletin board, by fax, and by postal mail.
From: mnu@nairobi.inel.gov (Rick Morneau)
Subject: Kezet csokolom
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:49:30 GMT

Is the phrase "Kezet csokolom" still commonly used in Hungary by
a man when he greets a woman? Is it considered old-fashioned?

Thanks!

Rick

--
*=*= Disclaimer: The INEL does not speak for me and vice versa =*=*
=  Rick Morneau            Idaho National Engineering Laboratory  =
*  mnu@inel.gov            Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415, USA          *
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= NeXT Mail accepted here! *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=


--
*=*= Disclaimer: The INEL does not speak for me and vice versa =*=*
=  Rick Morneau            Idaho National Engineering Laboratory  =
*  mnu@inel.gov            Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415, USA          *
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= NeXT Mail accepted here! *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

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and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: FEKETE@bcvms.bc.edu (Zoli Fekete)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
Subject: AGORA-SCMPOST RFE/RL report (excerpts)
Date: 2 Sep 1992 12:41:55 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: fekete@bcvms.bc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

SLOVAK PARLIAMENT ADOPTS CONSTITUTION.  On 1 September, the
Slovak parliament approved the constitution of the Slovak
Republic.  CSTK reports that in the 150-member parliament 114
deputies voted for the constitution, 16 voted against, 4
abstained, and 16 were not present. A three-fifths majority
was needed to approve the constitution. Shortly before the
vote, ethnic Hungarian deputies walked out. The parliament
approved an amendment to the preamble to the Slovak
Constitution whereby the original wording "We, the citizens
of the Slovak Republic..." was replaced by "We, the Slovak
nation..." Another amendment approved by the deputies
stipulates that the Slovak language should be considered the
"state" language of the republic, rather than the "official"
language.  Parliamentary chairman Gasparovic said that "by
the adoption of this constitution, the Slovak Republic has
become a sovereign state." Czechoslovakia is to split into
two states on 1 January 1993. (Jiri Pehe, RFE/RL Inc.)
 
SLOVAK PREMIER CLASHES WITH HUNGARIAN DEPUTIES. Speaking at
the end of the Slovak National Council's discussion of a
draft Slovak constitution on 1 September, Slovak Prime
Minister Vladimir Meciar accused ethnic Hungarian deputies of
trying to create political instability in Slovakia. CSTK
reports Meciar as saying that amendments to the constitution
proposed by Hungarian deputies were rejected not because they
were proposed by ethnic Hungarians but because they were bad.
Meciar also argued that there was no comparison between the
treatment of ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia and ethnic Slovaks
in Hungary. In Slovakia, "we do not want ethnic Hungarians to
meet the same fate that ethnic Slovaks have met in Hungary,"
said Meciar.  Hungarian deputy Erno Rozsa rejected Meciar's
speech as dictatorial and arrogant. (Jiri Pehe, RFE/RL Inc.)
 
HUNGARIAN INTERIOR MINISTER IN ROMANIA. According to MTI and
Western media, Interior Minister Peter Boross arrived in
Romania on 1 September for a 24-hour visit at the invitation
of his Romanian counterpart Victor Babiuc. The two ministers
signed agreements on the return of illegal refugees,
cooperation between the interior ministries, and opening new
border crossings.  Discussions also touched on improving
cooperation between the border guards, police, and refugee
organizations of the two countries. (Judith Pataki, RFE/RL
Inc.)
 
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
with the assistance of the RFE/RL News and Current Affairs
Division (NCA). The report is available by electronic mail
via LISTSERV (RFERL-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU), on the
Sovset' computer bulletin board, by fax, and by postal mail.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: kothav@jaeger.geog.ubc.ca (Zavareh Kothavala)
Subject: Re: Manifesto: New Hope for Unitied Britonnic Nations (DSY)
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:48:36 GMT

YEAH RIGHT !!!!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zav Kothavala                          :Department of Geography
Graduate Student                       :University of British Columbia
e-mail: kothav@geog.ubc.ca             :#217-1984 West Mall
Phone: (604) 822-2663 (Department)     :Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z2
       (604) 222-4164 (Home)           :CANADA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: spoon@zac.riv.csu.edu.au (simpson poon)
Subject: Re: Chinese Government (was Re: Immigration)
Followup-To: soc.culture.australian
Organization: charles sturt university-riverina
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:16:09 GMT

In article <138@elli.une.edu.au>, dmiller@elli.une.edu.au (David Miller)
wrote:
> 
> 
>
> Shouldn't this posting be in aus.jokes?
> 
> IMO, the Chinese people have an incredible strength to persevere no
> matter what the odds or the suffering.  The Chinese government, though?
 It's also easy to hide problems, given...

        ......... much deleted........

> ...the lack of basic freedoms.  The original poster of this message
> apparently has learnt nothing from the changes to the Soviet Union.
> 
> Best regards
>
I think one have to look at things from all aspects. Surely many SE Asia
countries have been booming since the 80's. There is a price for this.
China has got lots of people still suffering from serious poverty. I am
told by a friend who do business with China and go there often that there
are still poor people coming from north western China to Kwangzhou to look
for jobs. Also, one can forget about complaining work environment and pay
because it doesn't matter how low the wage and how harsh the work
environment is, someone will take the job if  you don't. Therefore, China's
success is not without a price!

Simpson.