HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:08:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.172922.5301@cbnews.cb.att.com> nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell) writes:
>From article <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com>, by dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller):
>> I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
>> the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.
> 
>> I think that the F1 clan deserves its own sandbox and I am willing to
>> facilitate this (boy am I going to regret this).
>> 
>> What do you say?
>
>I would agree that F1 is about the only topic with enough traffic right
>now to justify it's own subgroup.  However, I would suggest that you 
>propose a reorg for the motorsports hierarchy rather than putting 
>formula1 directly under autos. 
>
>I would suggest creating:
>
>rec.autos.racing.misc
>rec.autos.racing.formula1
>
>and removing:
>
>rec.autos.sport
>
>This would serve several purposes.  First of all it would give the
>F1 fans their own motorhome to lounge in while they watch the
>miserable masses file by (sorry, just kidding :-).  Second, it might
>once and for all rid us of the bozos who can't figure out that this isn't
>the place to talk about their "sports car."  And finally it would
>allow a logical hierarcy for the creation of other subgroups IF they
>are ever needed (which at this point they are not IMHO).
>
I would just change the name of rec.autos.sport to rec.autos.racing.
The only posts I consider to be wasted space are "Re: reliable car",
"Re: little fish", and so on - the mis-crossposted messages.

I would not complain about a rec.autos.F1, but I would not call the
general group "*.misc" as I think that would lead to confusion all
around.

As others have said, compared to other topics, the 50-60 messages
per day of r.a.s is not too bad (for example, comp.sys.mac.hardware
is well over 100 per day, which is too much for me to follow). Unless
further growth occurs, my vote is to keep one group, but I would
sunscribe to all rec.autos.racing.* that were created!

Jeff
From: D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:33:20 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91909178@occam

In article <1992Aug19.133245.2342@hubcap.clemson.edu> csroach@eng.clemson.edu writes:
>Does anyone out there know if, now that they've got the driver's title and a few more
>points will win them the constructor's championship, Williams will bring out the
>FW-15 for a few races?  If I read the rules changes correctly, all of this year's 
>cars will be illegal next year, so unless Team Willy want the FW-15 to be a virgin
>museum piece, they'll have to run it this year.  I know I want to see it.  
>
>
>Shane Roach
>csroach@eng.clemson.edu

What are the rule changes that mean a totally new car will be required?
I understand that cars will have to be 3" narrower, will it be too hard to
slightly modify an existing design? Or is it  something else?


-- 
Sim. ----------------------------------------------------------- Simeon Walker,
----------------------------------------- Department of Electrical Engineering,
D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk -------------------- University of Bradford, England.
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IndyCar tires
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:28:51 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug12.172812.14579@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>>> What are the front and rear widths of the tires used in IndyCar racing?
>>
>The tires are, of course, exclusively Goodyear.  Each tire weighs 18-28
>lbs, depending whether it is for the rain or dry, front or rear.  The
>minimum rim diameter is 15", with the width of the undriven wheels set
>at 10" and the width of the driven wheels set at 14".  

One reason that Goodyear is put out about the new F1 tyre regulations,
they're going to be making 10 inch wide front tyres for both F1 and
Indycars.  However, the maximum diameter of the F1 tyres is 26 inches, 
1 inch smaller than for Indycars.  This means they're going to need a 
different set of moulds.

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:13:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.181514.15491@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty) writes:
>Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
>Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
>a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
>how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
>demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?

Based on what I can quicky glean from my IndyCar Media guide, the first
IndyCar (old era) race was held there 9/6/70 and Jim McElreath won the
first 500 mile race.  The last was held 8/31/80 with the winner being
Bobby Unser.  It shows a total of 21 indycar events held there.  Not all
were 500 milers.  Six went a distance of only 100 and four were 200.

Foyt leads the pack with a total of 5 wins, followed by Bobby U. with
4.  The one lap record was set 8/30/79 by Mears - 44.325/203.046 mph.

I don't have the info from NASCAR at hand.  If memory serves, Ontario
went the way of land developers several years ago, and is probably
either a housing tract or shopping mall or whatever now.  Better for
someone who lives down there to fill us in on those details.

-c'ball-
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 23:48:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.191759.29329@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>(Of course, what I'd like to see is Williams
>fielding a four car team with Mansell, Prost, Schumacher, and 
>Senna ... )

Well, fine, that would be interesting.

But what about McLaren? Will _anyone_ drive for this team in 1993?

Are they so jinxed that no one would sit inside their car in 1993?

There hasn't been any public posturing that I know of by drivers
wanting to get a ride on a McLaren next year. Will McLaren really
fold up tent and enter the evenly-matched world of CART Indy cars?
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: balinton@space.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Senna & Prost to Williams. Mansell retires.
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:19:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.220509.19968@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:

>quite frankly, i think that Prost and Mansell will get along better
>than either Prost/Senna or Mansell/Senna; especially since williams is
>much less likely to play the `prefered driver' game than ferrari
>(that game being most of the reason for Mansell's problems with Prost
>as a teammate.)
>
>in my estimation, we've been looking at a mild bit of posturing, which
>is now being followed by a rapid arrival at contracts by Prost and Mansell,
>both of whom probably figure that a Prost/Mansell team is the best deal
>that either of them can hope for.  they both hate the thought of Senna as
>a teammate more than anything else ...
>
>if frank w gives them equal cars next year, then it might even be a happy
>relationship for a while.

    But when Frank starts giving his "no team orders" team orders... that
will be pretty funny.  I don't think Prost or Mansell are as good as Patrese
at saying what the boss expects them to say.
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:55:21 GMT
Reply-To: MJackson.Wbst147@xerox.com

Received: by yngvi.wbst147 (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA07413; Tue, 18 Aug 92 08:55:51
EDT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 29756@sequent.com, dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

> I wonder if Nige and Gerhard will be speaking.  Berger, for my tastes,
> tried a little TOO hard to squeeze nige on the two times Nige passed him.

To the contrary.  The FOSA hotline reports that Mansell "thanked Berger
profusely" after the race for holding up everyone.  This made it much easier
for Nigel to pass up to third; then he only needed to make one difficult pass
for the championship.

Could Mansell have developed a sarcasm gland?  Naaaaah. . .

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>
    TV dinner by the pool; I'm so glad I finished school!
				- Frank Zappa
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
From: Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Stuart Laing)
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:00:21 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Of course there have been very sucessful driver/owner teams. Take Mclean
for an example and also Sir Jack Bradham run his own team  winning the
F1 championship himself in 1966 and Denny Hulme followed up the
following year in another Bradham.
How dear you not know about the boys from down under!!!!
From: james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 tires and teams
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:54:51 GMT
Organization: Bridge Information Systems

In article <9223117.26349@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> neoh@ee.mu.OZ.AU (cheow hee neoh) writes:
>Okay, here are two questions for all you F1 petrolheads out there:
>
> i. How does a tire get blistered? And, can a tire return to its 'unblistered'
>    state if the driver takes it easy for the next few laps??

The tire gets too hot and the carcass "delaminates" (i.e., the layers
begin to separate). A loose layer of rubber forms on the outside of the
tire, usually in one spot. Taking it easy will not reattach it. Once a
tire blisters, it's history. Often, this blister will come off
altogether, which usually deflates the tire. Once one blister has formed,
the tire runs even hotter and more blisters show up.

>ii. Is a team allowed to field more than two cars on the grid on raceday??

I don't believe so.

>What do you all think of Senna's rearward facing on-board camera in Hungary??
>I couldn't see anything much apart from the huge Marlboro rear wing. You could 
>catch a glimpse of the guy behind only in the chicanes. I prefer the shot from
>Martin Brundle's car in Adelaide in '89 although about all you could see then 
>was water everywhere! 

Yeah, the gearbox mounted cameras do provide a better view. The shot of
Senna appearing out of the gloom and hitting the car was one of the
scariest ever.

>Do all the other teams not having an on board camera have to carry some sort of
>a ballast to compensate for the weight??

Yes. 5kg. This is added on top of the allowed minimum weight (i.e., your
car must weigh the minimum + 5kg at race's end if you aren't carrying a
camera).
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
james montebello (james@bridge.com)         'my employer has no opinions'		
"If we don't succeed, then we run the risk of failure." -Dan Quayle
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Economaki on PITSTOP (8/11)
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:46:05 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <358@rehab1.UUCP> dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.170935.11870@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>#Anybody got any good questions you'd like me to direct
>#to Chris during the course of the show?  Sorry, flames
>#not accepted.
>
>  No flames. Just ask him when hes going to quit announcing races. Regardless
> of his "insight" he sucks as an announcer (thats why hes no longer in the
> booth). Perhaps a review of usenet articles about him might get his eyes open.
> And then again they might be open and hes just sucking every $$$ he can from
> the networks.
>
> -Dan
>-- 
>  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital                 Network Adminstration,

     ^
     |
     |
Look where this fellow works, and yet he's too dumb to read!  Mr. Kehoe clearly
asked for constructive suggestions, not brainless flames, but what does he get?

Instead of giving Chris Economaki shit for what he's NOT good at, why not try
to get some benefit at what he IS good at?  I suggest asking him for interesting
and/or funny stories and anecdotes about drivers and incidents from the past.
He must know hundreds of them that would make fascinating reading.

Does Economaki, or any other person for that matter, have to be EXCELLENT at every
single thing they attempt in life?  Doesn't the good he's done for the sport of
autoracing over the decades merit him any slack at all??

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Subject: Re: Speeds at Le Mans, Rondeau, Rondel (was: Mazdas @ Bonneville)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 23:40:23 GMT

In article <AeXzCXO00Vop0Y8w5A@andrew.cmu.edu> Donald Jackson Pickett <dp32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.sport: 15-Aug-92 Speeds at Le Mans,
>Rondeau,.. by Robert Marti@nugget.inf. 
>> In article <183085@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com
>> (Dan Jones) writes:
>> |> And what was the fastest speed ever turned at LeMans?  I'm thinking
>that a 
>> |> Rondel (sp?) got into the low 250's at one point.
>>  
>> I think this is correct. However, as far as I remember, the car was
>> called a Rondeau (pronounced something like Rondoh, with the "on"
>> actually a singly nasal "o").  I believe they used Ford-Cosworth
>> DFV V8 powerplants.  
>
>I thought that Pougeot was the first team to oficially hit 250mph at Le
>Mans - it was the (supposed) impetus for building the chicanes. 

Here's what I read in NSSN a couple of years ago:

The problem was with the 250MPH cars is that with no brake checks
they found out a little too late that they had a leaking tire.

The radials will stay upright at high speed and you don't necessarily find
that out until you hit the brakes.  The poor souls who found out they had
a flat ended up going end over end off the Mulsanne; and that they ended
up going ass over teakettle into some fairly unfriendly catch fences (trees?).

At least with the chicane, you had to slow down in an area where you were
less likely to hit something immobile should a problem arise.
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: smithr@teecs.UUCP (Robert Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:15:54 GMT
Subject: Re: I'm confused
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

It must be like the old 'Road & Track' articles about the Cyclops (you
remember - the Italian car made from old Cinzano signs) that could run
F1 rally and just about everything else.

Bob.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:50:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Gary Lorman writes:
>         But as with most tracks in So. Cal. people moved in next door,
>then complained about the track (ala Riverside, Lyons Drag strip, O.C.
>Raceway, ... ... ...).  You'd think here where their is so much
>auto development you'd want lots of places to try out things,.. BUT NO.

People in general are weenies.  Because there is sufficient money involved
with the real estate, people in California are big weenies.

These a**holes buy houses that are near things like airports and race tracks
because they are the only affordable places left in growing areas (like SoCal
was during the 80s) because of the noise, then they complain about the noise
and have the pre-existing facilities shut down.

Anyway, I hope the Big One wipes out their houses.  Then they can whine about
how life is so unfair to them.

So, let's see how long things last in NoCal.  Neighbors of Laguna Seca have
forced the track to go from 2 quiet weekends during the summer to 8.  Sears
Point has somewhat serious noise restrictions and a watchful neighbor to
give it hell if it is not followed.

alan
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Alboreto: 11 starts, 11 finishes
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:21:51 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug19.022225.22880@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.160515.28621@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>,
>welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>|>
>|>one wonders just how far away Footwork is from becoming a
>|>serious contender; their improvement this season is rather
>|>impressive (as is Alboreto's ability to keep his car together
>|>for the duration of a race.)
>
>The Mugen engine certainly has helped.  This is a rebadged version of the
>Honda V10 that McLaren dominated F1 with a couple of years back.  Powerful
>(although not in the top rank any more) and reliable.  I think that with some
>work on the chassis we could well see Footwork consistently in the points.

The thing that has struck me about the Footworks this year is that you
hardly ever see them on TV.  Unlike Lotus, their car has been too slow
to keep up with the top six before the retirements start. You don't
often see them being lapped either.  

They've got a bigger budget than Lotus, but they've only scored five
points compared to Lotus's ten.  I think they've spent too much time
and money testing to get reliability, and not enough on getting enough
outright speed.  Lotus are getting a lot more TV exposure for their
sponsors, even though they have had more retirements.  I think this
will be even more pronounced next year after Lotus have had a while 
for development with a sensible budget.  I think Footwork will still 
be midfield runners.

I'm not knocking Alboreto.  He's driving really well.  Keke Rosberg's
top ten of current F1 drivers went something like 1= Mansell & Senna,
3= Alboreto, Berger & Patrese, 6= Brundle, Hakkinen, Herbert, Lehto 
& Schumacher.

BTW, I read an article which praised Lotus for their thrift - saving
airfares by ferrying the team and drivers around by coach wherever
possible.  However, Johnny Herbert was close to being decapitated on
the way back from the French GP.  The coach was going along backroads
to avoid the blockaded autoroutes when it came upon a low bridge. 
Johnny was down at the front of the bus, changing tapes in the video
and would have been in deep trouble if the driver hadn't been able to
stop in time.  A week later Mika Hakkinen missed the British GP warmup
session when he got stuck in traffic.  Perhaps they should lease a
helicopter for their drivers!

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:46:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <memo.578609@cix.compulink.co.uk>, by shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith):
> It occurs to me that the ideal car to win at Hungaroring would be a
> drag racer.
> 
> Lets face it - all you have to do is to be first off the line into
> the first corner, and outdrag everybody else down the start finish
> straight.
> 
> 
> Do that 70 odd times and Robert's a relative, as they say :-)

Yes.  That is exactly what Senna did to win last year.  The Hungaroring
is as good an argumant as you will find for reducing the width of F1
cars.  Yoo bad FISA chickened out and only made them 3 inches narrower.
Nine inches would be about right.

Chris Prael
From: donb@pdx.csd.mot.com (Don Bolton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:13:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxvme.1284
Reply-To: donb@pdx.csd.mot.com (Don Bolton)
Organization: Parallel Technology Solutions Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.181514.15491@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty) writes:
>i've been wondering about this a little while now; perhaps one
>of our resident motorsport historians can give us an answer.

>Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
>Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
>a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
>how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
>demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?

I'm not a resident historian, but am somewhat familiar with the place,
I cannot name dates but it was built sometime in the sixties, I remember
going to its inagurial Indy car race with my dad (ironicly I remember the
airel stunt work in more detail than the race itself) kids, go figure :-)

I worked TS (timing scoring) for a 6 hour production bike AMA road race
there back in 74 or 73. It had limited use, for rock concerts, the anual
Indy and Nascar bashes and little else, its now zoned a residential area
if memory serves.

Its lap board (the big tower that the fans can see whos on first etc) is
in service at the Daytona motor speedway these days.

It was built on the premise of being another Indy, but alas us then Californians
had so many other things to do and USAC didn't give the place a whole month
on the schedule like Indy so although it drew a crowd, it was NOT the event
INDY is by any means. It suffered from poor promotion, or perhaps poor
promotability in the land of sunny beaches, Disneyland, etc may be more to
the point.

For most of the time it was an oval ghost town in a desert valley


Don "who made the salad?" Bolton
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Cleveland GP Results and IndyCar stuff
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:02:10 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Jay C. Smith writes:

>AW says CART/IndyCar's '93 schedule may include a street race in Houston,
>and there is talk of a '94 schedule with a January race in Brazil, followed
>by a race at a new North Miami course before setting off for Australia.  The
>season would end in early September.  

Say what?  What is going to happen to Laguna Seca's traditional October date?
I believe that LS has had an October race since the start (~1957) and can't 
see them moving the IndyCar race up that far.  Or does this mean LS is going
to lose the IndyCar event to North Miami or Brazil. :-(

Dan Jones