HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Re: PC as TDD?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:23:35 GMT

In article <01GPPBD7BX3600243M@utrcgw.utc.com> Bill <WJM@UTRC.UTC.COM> writes:
>Hello Everyone,
>
>I have a TDD device which I used to communicate over the phone line with some
>friends who are deaf.  Basically it is a small computer terminal type device
>with a keyboard, single line flourescent display, and an accoustic coupler for
>a phone's handset.
>
>As I understand things, the TDD service for the deaf runs at some non-standard
>(per today's modern computer equipment), settings.  I think it is something
>like 75 baudot, which defines its binary character set and transmission speed.
>(Suppossedly this is still used because the TDD service was originally set up
>by the phone company using old mechanical teletype devices, and newer TDD unit
>must adhere to the standard for compatibility.)
>
>Now for my question:
>
>Is there a product available (or plans for a kit), that would allow me to
>use my PC as a TDD device?
>
>Besides the luxury of a nice keyboard and monitor, it would be convenient
>for storing messages or sending pre-written messages.  (With appropriate
>software.)  And a direct phone connection via my modem would be nicer.

There's a company in Maryland (Silver Spring, I believe) that sells a
2400bps modem with TDD capabilities.  There are two formats for TDD - 
American, which is a 45 baud signal, and International, which is 50 baud.

Personally, I'd like to see TDD manufacturers build 2400 bps into TDDs
as well as the standard 45/50; it would give TDD users more access to
more people and systems.  And given what low-end laptops cost these days
vs TDD costs, this probably isn't unreasonable.

Something similar has happened in computing - you see *very* little support
for 300bps modems any more, while 10 years ago it was standard and 1200bps
was cutting-edge.  There's a market here, I think ...

(BTW, I'm a hearing computer professional; my wife is an interpreter for
the deaf here in DC.  If it matters ...)


-- 
Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:43:21 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      handicap

Alan says:

> Doesn't it seem logical that
> a handicap ("Gasp! Horror! He said that WORD!") can be overcome given
> appropriate circumstances

     Yes.

> making it therefore not a handicap?

     No.

     Overcoming it often involves time and effort, sometimes money,
usually inconvenience, and often a less-than-optimum solution. That's why
it's a handicap.
     A handicap doesn't necessarily mean you can't get there. It does make
it harder for you to get there (or even to get close).

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM (Vicki Brown)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Handicapped?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:09:43 GMT
Reply-To: vlb@apple.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Mimi said:
>I won't beat on the issue again, but deafness
>and hard of hearing ARE handicaps.  How much they handicap YOU is a different
>issue as is whether or not you feel handicapped.  The fact remains that you
>(and I and all the rest of us, including I King Jordan, are missing an
>(delete the word 'an') or impaired in an important sensory modality that
>most other human beings have.

According to my dictionary :-), one of the definitions of handicap is
A hindrance; A person or thing that hinders (keeps back, thwarts);  An obstacle.

So deafness could be considered a hindrance (a "handicap") in certain
situations, such as viewing movies without subtitles or using the telephone, or
ordering at the drive-through at McDonalds, etc.

But hearing can be considered a hindrance (handicap) in cases such as a noisy
bar, working with loud machinery, trying to understand what the person on the
bus is saying through the window, etc.

A very clear example came up last night in my intermediate ASL class.  Two of
the class members are deaf (raised oral, learning sign).  We were watching a
practice videotape (Signing Naturally).  For one of the sample dialogs, we all
(four of us) missed the signs.  And then one of our deaf classmates admitted
that while he hadn't caught the signs, he had lipread the signer!  So he knew
what she had said... And the other deaf classmate agreed :-}  We two hearies
just turned and looked at each other.  We were really at a disadvantage!

So a "handicap" is all in how you look at it.  Context is very impoortant.

  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:58:29 CST
From:         Roy Miller <GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Handicap Digest

I just want to add my support to Bryce's statement that Bill McGarry
doesn't need to apologize for the name of his digest (regardless of the
reaction that the name might evoke from some people).  We have had this
terminology discussion before (and will, I am sure, have it again in
the future).  Bill provides a valuable service to his many readers,
has to work many hours in the compilation of his Digest, and has
been at it for a long, long time.  He has my thanks for his efforts,
and I am confident the thanks of many other persons with disabilities.

-- Roy Miller   (ge0013@siucvmb)
From: cclark@NRI.RESTON.VA.US (Cynthia Clark)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Cochlear implant failures
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:23:11 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              16 Oct 92 20:43:17 CDT." <9210162047.aa24002@NRI.Reston.VA.US>

Omer>We all know the term 'oral failures' - meaning people who are deaf and
Omer>were educated orally (lipreading and speech).  However it did not work
Omer>out for them, and they grew up deprived of both sign language and real
Omer>knowledge of the language used by the society in which they are.

Keith>Actually - in the U.S. at least - historically an "oral failure" was
Keith>someone who was educated using the manual method.  A minor point, I
Keith>suppose...

========================

Both of you defined "oral failure" differently.  Let me interpret
what you both said:

For example, Omer defined it as a deaf person who can speak orally
(without any sign language) does NOT feel accepted into the deaf world
because she act too "hearie" in a deaf world.  Right ?

Keith defined "oral failure" as a deaf person who use sign
language ONLY and does NOT feel accepted into the hearing world
because she act too "deafie" in a hearing world.  Right?

Ok, which one "hearie" or "deafie" is an "oral failure"  ??

Cynthia


\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
[                                                                         ]
[  +----------------------------------------------+                       ]
[  |  "Don't ever try to teach a pig to sing: it  |                       ]
[  |   wastes your time and it annoys the pig."   |                       ]
[  +----------------------------------------------+                       ]
[                                                                         ]
[ Cynthia Clark,  Technical Assistant                                     ]
                                                                     ]
[ Email:  cclark@nri.reston.va.us                                         ]
[ TTY: 703-758-5912                                                       ]
[                                                                         ]
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: The Bolis Group, San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:25:57 PST
Reply-To:     Alan Millar <amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.Org>
From:         Alan Millar <amillar@BOLIS.SF-BAY.ORG>
Subject:      handicap

Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET> writes:

> Alan says:
>
> > Doesn't it seem logical that
> > a handicap ("Gasp! Horror! He said that WORD!") can be overcome given
> > appropriate circumstances
>
>      Yes.
>
> > making it therefore not a handicap?
>
>      No.

Well, OK, I couldn't think of a better choice of words.  Of course
you are right that being a handicap, it takes a lot to overcome it.

However, the point was my shock at the statement "unlike the blind, deaf
can succeed".  Whether you call them handicaps or not, it's an appalling
generalization.

- Alan

----                                                     ,,,,
Alan Millar       amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org            __oo  \
                                                        =___/
But Moses said "Oh, Lord, please send someone else to do it." -Exo. 4:13
From: CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: thinking about handicaps
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:19:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: msuvx1::in%"deaf-l@siucvmb"


        Hello all and have GREAT weekend!

        Hello Cynthia,
         Your bio. was GREAT!......, one other question,
        what is your 'marital status'? (I'm being nosey again).
        Again, you seem like wonderful person and please,
        keep those positive comments coming. (Especially
        now; these optic cable lines have been rather hot
        lately with all this dispute on deaf-l about 'handicap, etc.

>THE WORST THING ABOUT DEAFNESS IS:  Rejection.

        I'm afraid you're right.  Yet, at one time or another,
        everyone faces some sort of rejection. Huh?  And yes,
        I would think more so for the deaf.

>IF I COULD HEAR FOR THE FIRST TIME,
>THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS:  go to the drug store purchasing the
>                                ear plugs trying to turn it off somehow

        Ear plugs can't turn off all the noise; we 'hearies' put up
        with it 24 hours a day.  Isn't that Great! (B.S. sarcasm)(NOT!)

>QUESTIONS:  Tell me about yourself...   Why did you join DEAF-LIST ?
>            Where do you live ?  (I live in Reston, Virginia
>            about 25 minutes drive to Gallaudet University)
>            What do you think of my biography?

         Me, I'm from Memphis, TN.  Work for Memphis State Univ. in
        computer services.  Things I like to do?  Life!  If I gave
        you a list, I don't think the other netters would appreciate
        the "waste of bandwidth", you know?  Anyhow, I just returned
        from Washington, D.C. and saw Gally; very nice campus.
        Only thing happening there was girl's volleyball and basketball
        games.  I saw the NAMES Quilt, went bar hopping, enjoyed
        the Metro, and the city in general was great.
         I joined deaf-l to get and gather more perspectives into
        Deafness, deafness, HoH, etc.  I am involved as much as I can
        with the deaf in Memphis, and do some volunteer work interpreting
        and counseling deaf at rehab. centers, and three of my best
        friends are deaf.  My initial interest in A.S.L. would have to be
        the beauty of the language; this brings up a thought......
        About the 'rejection' you talked about earlier, ceases to
        amaze me to see that, in general, people who don't know A.S.L.
        or anything about deaf lifestyle, reject it; and reject it for
        the simple matter of "not knowing anything about it". Sad.
         Oh well, my mind's gone on a trip again..............
        Once again, welcome.  Gotta go for now.

                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:47:08 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: Comments :
              8 Oct 1992 11:00:50 GMT from <eph3205@ULTB.ISC.RIT.EDU>

E.P. Hsu is presenting the classical argument in favor of oralism:  the
need to communicate with the larger world around.
He cites examples of Chinese/Japanese/Mexican immigrants to USA who
don't bother to learn English and remain isolated in their own native
language in midst of USA.  The similarity to the deaf experience stops
here.  The immigrants CAN learn English (well, most of them - the elderly
ones may find it very difficult to learn a new language) and once they
know english they can assimilate (as far as technical communication is
concerned - they may sometimes prefer to stay within their own culture).
For deaf persons, the situation is different.  They can never participate
in group conversations on same basis with hearing persons, unless
everyone knows sign (the exceptions involve extremely considrate hearing
persons).
About outsiders not learning sign:  I am sure they'd learn if we the deaf
were having high profile at community.  Over the history, societies which
have high incidence of hereditary deafness - have everyone know sign (USA
has its own famous example whose name escaped my memory at the moment).
I heard about two such societies in Israel (a Beduin tribe and Jews who
immigrated from Algeria - those societies have their own sign languages).
There are also stories in the newspapers about villages in which everyone
learned sign when a family had a deaf child born into it.

My recommended model for balanced communication skills is as follows:
1. Use paper and pencil for reliable communications i.e. situations in which
   slower communication may be acceptable but one must make sure that the
   subject matter is understood without difficulty.
2. Use sign language for socializing (group conversations).  This applies even
   to hard of hearing persons!!!
3. Develop oral skills (lipreading and speech) but invest time only if the
   child shows aptitude for this.  Those skills would be used in situations
   in which reliability is less important than speed, and environmental
   conditions are not adverse (1 on 1 situations, good residual hearing,
   no noise etc.).
                                                      --- Omer
From: vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM (Vicki Brown)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: looking for a cartoonist (or a cartoon)
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:28:20 GMT
Reply-To: vlb@apple.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              16 Oct 92 10:19:50 -0400. <9210161616.AA21135@apple.com>


  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN


>Hi everyone!  I have a funny cartoon that is about a zillionth
>generation copy.  It has apparently been enlarged, copied,
>faxed, reduced, enlarged, etc... to the point where it's hard
>to read the cartoon.  (But once you read it, you get a good
>laugh.)  It's a view of a church from the second row of the
...

No, I haven't seen it.  But...

   * You didn't tell us the joke! *

(How will I sleep tonight? :-)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: msuvx1::in%"deaf-l@siucvmb"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:00:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      "TO: A. Matthews

        (Sending this through DEAF-L...no success at your address)

   Hi Allen,

   I've been meaning to say hello to you there at Gally but, I'm
always on-the-go.  The only time I have to chitchat with the netters
is while I'm at work.  BTW, I work at Memphis State University, (TN)
Computer Services.  I consider myself to be somewhat of an enthusiasts
about deafness here in the Memphis area.  I try to touch every deaf
or deaf related event here.  I assume you are deaf or hard of
hearing because of your phone listings in your .sig,(TDD).  Happy to know
your on the net.  Oh, I recently posted to deaf-l about my little trip
to Washington, D.C. this coming weekend; if your working Sat. or so,
I would like to see Gally's campus and possibly your computer room,
(I assume you have Digital mainframe, huh?).
   Well, gotta run again. I need some sleep before my Washington
excersion.  Hope to see you there.

                                Steven Conlee
                                CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@vaxf.colorado.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: CAREY_B
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:28:00 -0700
From:         "Bryce Carey, CNS,
              Admin. Sys. Group" <CAREY_B@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: politicians

When someone claims to have knowledge of a fact, as does Paul,
it behooves a more civil and up-front response than this one
from Paul to Bosco:

>Bosco Keown (KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM) wrote:
>: Ref:  Paul Pycroft's posting of Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:29:17 GMT
>:
>: Paul writes:
>:
>: >In this country, there are deaf person who doing well in business world,
>: >directors of industrial companies and even showbusiness and whatever you
>: >name it....
>:
>:
>: Come on, Paul!  The situation is not as rosy as you make it out to be.
>: Who are the "directors of industrial companies" you are talking about?
>: I should like to know who they are so I can see how they got where they
>: are, otherwise I'm wasting my time here. :-)
>:
>:
>: Bosco.
>
>
>if you say so.......... I can't be bothered on what you said!!!!!
>
>Paul


Hey Paul,

If you cannot be bothered to actually NAME one of these
deaf industrial tycoons, then you should not claim they exist in
the first place. At least give a reference as to where that rare
beast can be located, such as WHAT industry or company.
Some of us would like to know, including Bosco. It might help
some of us who ARE in industry but are not (yet) at the
tycoon level.

I'm not saying there is no such animal, I'm merely calling you
to task for making claims and then being so uncivil when someone
asks for a citation.

I think this is a high class establishment here, not a feelgood
rumor factory.

-Bryce
         internet  carey_b@cubldr.colorado.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:32:14 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: parental motivation

The problem with making a decision about whether to "force a deaf person"
into being oral is that, in most cases, the parents must make a decision
about a very young child or infant where there is no way to tell whether
the baby (let me use that term for convenience) has the abilities needed
to become oral or not.  As a psychologist who has worked with young children
a lot, I can say with considerable authority that THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL
until too late.  Language of some sort must be started long before anyone
has evidence about what language would be best.  So, what has happened in
the past are one of two things.

Either the child was doggedly taught oral English with speech reading--
which only worked for those children who had the abilities to grasp
language that way--or the child was taught sign--which left him/her out
of the hearing world of jobs, etc., unless he/she could acquire English
more or less on his/her own later in life.  I'm not sure that combined
programs of various kinds have done much better.  Ergo, the present
mess where children are placed in a program, usually with what the parents
(and other experts) feel is the most appropriate place with no real evidence
of what really would be best for THAT particular child with his/her abilities.

Compounding the problem is the fact that all kinds of programs are not
available in all places and those that are are of greatly varying quality.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 10:23:24 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      handicap

Vicki --

     Yes, context makes a tremendous difference in the practical impact of
a handicap -- depending on the person and the situation. And many of the
handicaps of deafness can be mitigated or overcome or avoided in one way or
another.
     If you had said only that, I couldn't have agreed with you more.
     But:
     You compared a hearing person's "handicap" in being unable to lipread
something he wasn't even supposed to in the first place, and which would
have brought him no benefit at all (it was, after all, a lesson in signing)
with a deaf person's core handicap in being unable to get (and perhaps
convey) vital information in a myriad of situations day in and day out
throughout his lifetime.
     If you were sitting next to a permanently wheelchair-bound person and
your leg fell asleep, would you say to him, in all seriousness, "I'm
handicapped, too, since I can't walk, either"?
     For a hearing person to downplay the pervading handicap of deafness by
referring to the peripheral and insignificant "handicaps" of hearing --
which can be overcome infinitely more easily than can the handicaps of
deafness -- is extremely patronizing. For a deaf person to do so is
self-deluding.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:33:27 -0400
From:         Bill <WJM@UTRC.UTC.COM>
Subject:      PC as TDD?

Hello Everyone,

I have a TDD device which I used to communicate over the phone line with some
friends who are deaf.  Basically it is a small computer terminal type device
with a keyboard, single line flourescent display, and an accoustic coupler for
a phone's handset.

As I understand things, the TDD service for the deaf runs at some non-standard
(per today's modern computer equipment), settings.  I think it is something
like 75 baudot, which defines its binary character set and transmission speed.
(Suppossedly this is still used because the TDD service was originally set up
by the phone company using old mechanical teletype devices, and newer TDD unit
must adhere to the standard for compatibility.)

Now for my question:

Is there a product available (or plans for a kit), that would allow me to
use my PC as a TDD device?

Besides the luxury of a nice keyboard and monitor, it would be convenient
for storing messages or sending pre-written messages.  (With appropriate
software.)  And a direct phone connection via my modem would be nicer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks,
+ ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> +
+   __          United Technologies Research Center         +
+  /__)  . / /  Silver Lane MS 74, East Hartford, CT 06108  +
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