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X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:28:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christian rock

John writes:
>I'd rather listen to a song in which "JESUS IS LORD" is screamed over and
>over again than a good old fashioned nice song that swoons....
>"Amazing grace ...how sweet the sound...
>that saved someONE like me"
>We're not sinners any more, we've just made a few minor mistakes...
>ptooey!

    John, what are you trying to say?

    the list minor
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:17:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Fruit or Act?

     I have a question:

     Was it the _act_of_disobedience_ brought sin into the
     world?  Or was it the _fruit_ that did it?

     (I have two questions actually :-) )
     If it was the act, and not the fruit, then was there
     actually "life" in the fruit of the Tree of Life?

     Was everything symbolic?

     Vicky
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 04:53:12 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Courage

Marty:
      Thanks much.  I'll get in touch with Courage ASAP.  Anytime you
need a favor, let me know.
                          Love INC,
                                   ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:58:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Feminist theology/little god movement

From: LIZ MOREAU <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
and playing soft instrumental music in the background.  It was also
pointed out very strongly that the teacher should make sure to bring
the kids out of this slowly!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I would object to this also, but not on the grounds that the practice
was nonChristian, or demonic, but that they are playing with a valid
psychological technique we all know and love: hypnotism.

It is a bit stunning to find out how QUICKLY hypnotism can work, and
it is not supposed to be used except by licensed hypnotherapists.

As a psychology graduate student, I find it as offensive as if
someone was using dentist's anesthaesia, or psychotropic drugs.

Laws may be being broken here, if that's any help in your quest
to stop this "teaching".  It really doesn't sound like those
teachers have any real idea what they are playing with.  While
I don't think the lotus position is demonic or nonChristian, I
don't think it has any place in Christian prayer either.  It is
a distraction, and not really part of Western religion.
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
>   Darryl K. Johnson      I  "Man can believe the        <
>   Texas Christian        I   impossible, but can never  <
>   University             I   believe the improbable."   <
>   Fort Worth, Texas      I      -- Oscar Wilde          <
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
/ DJOHNSON@tcucvms.bitnet      DJOHNSON@gamma.is.tcu.edu  \
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 10:05:04 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jesus Christ Superstar
              14 Apr 1992 19:42:20 GMT from <djk55497@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

I am delighted to learn that some productions of Godspell end with a
Resurrection scene.  I saw the movie and I saw a Broadway production
--not the original one, I think-- and they did not.  The stage version
had people carrying the body to the rear of the theater.  I forget
whether there was any special music, and someone might say the music
was supposed to represent the Resurrection, but there  was nothing
explicit to indicate the Resurrection.  I did occur to me that it
would be easy to add a Resurrection scene, especially if there was
no dialogue.  It could be done with a physical appearance of the actor
who played Jesus with triumphant music and special bright lighting, or
something like that.

Marty Helgesen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:06:26 -0800
From:         dr798302 <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>

Hi,
  It is nice to attend Christia which not only clarify my viewpoint in
the daily Christian life but also help to speak more convicably to
nonChristians.
  Earlier I posted a mail about Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.  I was
not condemning them but was seeking a way to explain this hard case to
nonChristians, as they see only Christians but not Christ. I apprecicate
those suggestions coming from every place.  Another problem I came up is
how to know which preacher among those so many really behave like God
but not only speak about Him.    As we did not know the two famous TV
preachers had already been tempted to money till we found it at last,
how we do know the sprits of some current famous preachers have not been
corrupted?

Allen
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:57:51 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Guided imagery
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              at Apr 13, 92 6:12 am

>
>        Kerry
>
>        I disagree with your advice to get out of a church that is teach-
>        ing guided imagery and visualization.  One should not abandon
>        such a congregation to error but should oppose the error.  Why
>        let the proponents of errors take over everything?
>
>
>        Marty Helgesen
>

Marty, I both agree and disagree here!..
You are correct that someone who witnesses unbiblical practices in a church
should stand up and refute the error to who ever is in charge.. However
one can only do this so many times before they have to take their own
well being into consideration and find somewhere to worship that is more
concerned with doing things Gods way... (I am not saying leave any
denomination or anything, just find a place without the heresy)..
We are all going to find things in any place that we disagree with, but
we must prayerfully consider whether or not God wants us to remain at the
church...
Note that I am vehemently against church butterflies, people that skip from
church to church every sunday because they will not fall into line and live
in submission... But submission, and putting up with heresy is something
different..

So yes, stand up, expose the error, but if nothing is done about it, then
get out.. Shake the dust off of your feet so to speak..
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:03:43 -0500
From:         F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU
Subject:      Re: Request for advice
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

A corporation is not a citizen, but is entitled to all the constitutional

protections given to persons.

Is it OK to kill an illegal immigrant because he is nbot a
ot a citizen?

                    Reynolds
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:04:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

From: Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
It still boils down to a form of "Russian roulette".
     re: AIDS & sex
     LIFE is a form of Russian Roulette.  So is crossing the
     street, driving a car, taking a plane, or sitting in your
     living room chair.  The problem is that all of those activities
     (with the possible exception of the sitting one) are FAR more
     dangerous than having sex, protected OR unprotected.  Do we
     call safety belts "safer belts"?  Do we call permanent markers
     "sort-of permanent" markers, because the ink will, after several
     decades or more, wear away?  Why then this outrage by some people
     over the term "safe sex"?

     When I can easily point out HUNDREDS of activities you no doubt
     do every day that are many, many, many times more dangerous than
     having sex, I find your fear of AIDS a bit confusing.  People
     fear AIDS because it is new and foreign and media-blitzed, NOT
     because it is any more dangerous than getting your morning
     newspaper from your front lawn (sex, not AIDS).

     Again: Life is a form of Russian Roulette.  Sex is just one
     of the more SAFE activities in life.

     Darryl at TCU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:55:14 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Choosing Barabbas
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

A question that concerns many Christians as Good Friday approaches
is what we are to make of the statement in the Gospels that Jesus
was crucified at the demand of a Jewish mob. Historically, we wonder
why the crowd that shouted "Hosanna!" on Palm Sunday was ready to
shout "Crucify Him!" on Good Friday. Theologically, we wonder
whether it is correct to say that the Jewish people here acted as a
people in rejecting Jesus. As evangelists, we wonder how to reply to
those who quote the words of the Gospels here as proof that the New
Testament is anti-Semitic.

I have written an Essay (600 lines) on these questions, which I
recommend to interested readers. It can be obtained by sending the
message
 GET CHOOSING BARABBAS
 to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.

Recently, when I recommended an Essay, the retrieval mechanism at
ASUACAD was out of order, and persons sending for an essay were
likely to get the wrong one. It has since been fixed.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:07:53 EDT
Reply-To:     ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu
From:         Dennis Davidson <DDAVIDSON@CBACC.CBA.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Spiritual and physical death
X-To:         christia%asuacad@uga.cc.uga.edu

Jeff:
I fail to understand the value or necessity of the incarnation according to
your theology.  If, as you say, Jesus neither was alive nor died, what
precisely is the point?  If he did not incarnate as a fully human being,
to suffer, live, and die as one of us, then His death was neither
difficult nor a sacrifice, and it should impress us as nothing more than
the act of an immensely powerful being to show off that power.  In such
an act, there is no compassion, no love, and no sacrifice.

Jesus lived and died as a human being, very man and very God, and His
sacrifice was _real_, not a parlor trick; otherwise, Christianity is nothing
more than a philosophy based on a cheap magic trick by a capricious god.
                                            Love INC,
                                                   ---Kerry
Amen, Amen , Amen
Your sevant in Christ,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Davidson, Operational Support    |                               |
| Terry College of Business Computer Ctr. |  ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu  |
| University of Georgia, ph.(404)542-3821 |                               |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________________________________
| Jesus said 'You know you are one of my disciples if you have love one  |
| for another'                                                           |
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:47:00 EDT
From:         Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject: Re: EITHER AND/OR: A BAPTISIMAL INQUIRY

Joseph,

>       I do not know if you know this.  If you already know this, please
> forgive me for telling you the same thing again.

Don't worry.  I'd rather hear something twice, than not at all, if those
are my only choices.

>       This baptism formula was not mentioned in any place other than
> Matt. 28:18-20.  This observation has produced different explanations.

While I think I can guess at the explanation of the "Jesus Seminar", say,
and it would be different than mine.  Also, in terms of accuracy and
correctness, I would take Jesus over Luke or any other apostle.

A very good thing in my NIV is that it tells me whenever there are
discrepencies between the different manuscripts for any particular passage.
Footnotes inform me of omissions or alternate wordings of passages.  To
my knowledge, there are no mss containing Matt. 28 which do not have that
"baptism formula" exactly as rendered.

Of course, if you know of any external evidence to indicate that this passage
may be inaccurate, I'm open to listen.

In Christ,
.------------------------v----------------------------------------------------.
| Jeff Shirton           | "Now it is God that has...given us the Spirit as a |
| shirton@McMaster.CA    |  deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."  2Cor.5:5 |
`------------------------^----------------------------------------------------'
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:26:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: radio preacher/music
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

In particular, drums....

The Salvation Army used the bass drum (thats the big round one that makes the
loud thudding sound) as its outdoor altar rail in the years gone by.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hate to tell all the people saved uder prayer aroud the drum that it's an
instrument of the devil...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Diefenbach                      Internet "K.Diefenbach@ucq.edu.au"
User Services                       Phone    (079) 309747
University of Central Queensland    Diefenbach's law of typing errors:
Rockhampton MC 4702 Australia       Typing mistakes increase in direct
                                    proportion to (n+1)squared where n is
                                    the number of people watching you
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:49:10 -0800
From:         dr798302 <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>

Hi,
  I did read a lot from the net about abortion.  The problem is whether
a baby in other's body is a living being and received the same right
from God to survive.  A problem related to this also arises in genetic
engineering.
  I entered the field of genetic engineering two years ago, willing to
find cures for peoples suffering from diseases, but moved back into
computing, mostly due to moral reason.   It is possible now that we can
change the genetic codes of an animal to produce a different one, in a
sense that someday we can change a baby in the tube. If it is immoral to
abort a baby, will it be moral to change it before it was born?  The
scientists will take the human being as the experimentation, but no
one can guarantee that the technologies developed for the other spieces
will not be misused someday by some evil people?
  I believe that no one except God can design such a complex code for
the creatures.  My problem is whether God do allow us to investigate
the secrets hidden behind these codes.

  I did not sign on in Christia.  I am willing to receive a copy of
your comments directly sent to me.

Allen W. Chen
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: danny@utkux1.utk.edu (Danny McCampbell)
Subject: Re:      Re: Safe Sex #2
Organization: University of Tennessee
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:14:54 GMT


> So we can safely assume that you don't drive a car ever?
> 
> SURELY you don't think that airbags and "safer" belts are REALLY
> safe?  They have a FAILURE rate!  Even if ONE fails, how can you
> POSSIBLY risk severe injury and death by getting into your
> car every day?
> I'd like to point out that driving a car is MUCH more dangerous
> than sex, and how most Christians have no problem with "safe
> driving", rather than being "chaste" and not driving at all.
> 
> RELATIVE risk.  If you don't understand the concept, read
> Michael Fumento's book.
> 
> I can't understand how you can get into your car every day,
> knowing how you are encouraging your children to emulate your
> life-threatening suicidal behavior.


Doesn't the Bible say something about being punished for sin?  Especially
sexual sin because that is not only sinning against God but against your
own body.

I have not read anywhere where driving a car is a sin.  I know one could become
technical and such but I look at it like this.  God gave us the technology
and the mind to invent transportation.  I use it everyday.  I always pray
before I go anywhere that God will place His warring angels around me and
I plead the blood of Jesus over my life.  Then I have the protection I need
to safely drive to where I need to go.  Just a thought.

Danny McCampbell
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:20:46 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Kenny Marks

Jeff:

If you have a chance to see Kenny Marks, by all means GO!  He is excellent,
and you will certainly appreciate his style if you like MW Smith and
Randy Stonehill (by the way, pick up Randy's new tape "Wonderama" if you
get the chance.)  We are having a hard time keeping the new Kenny Marks
CD in stock in our store.  Please let me know what you thought, if you do
go.  Also, congratulations on your good taste in music and comedy.  Have fun.

                                                 Love INC,
                                                          ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:52:47 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Prayer request for the Church

Roy:

I hear you, brother!  I found this in a book called "Revival Praying" by
Leonard Ravenhill.  It was written in 1962, but I think it is relevant to
us today:

  "Do you ask, 'Well, now, where do we go from here?'  The answer is, 'Where
sinful individuals or sinful nations can only go--back to a merciful God.'
Hear me!  Every church without a prayer meeting condemns us; every Bible
daily unopened condemns us; every promise of God unused condemns us; every
lost neighbor condemns us; every lost heathen condemns us; every dry eye
among us condemns us; every wasted minute of our time condemns us; every
unclaimed opportunity for God condemns us.  Next year is not ours.  Tomorrow
may be too late.  Unless we repent _now_, unless we return and fire the
prayer altars _now_, unless we fast and weep _now_, woe unto us at the
judgment!"

Have a blessed Easter season.

                                          Love INC,
                                                   ---Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:33:11 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              15, 92 1:49 pm

>
>I think we can agree that Biblical standards will give you, oh,
>98% protection (they won't protect you from bad blood or evil
>dentists).
>
>
>Darryl at TCU
>

One thing people seem to not be saying and that is that AIDS is NOT 100%
Fatal...

JESUS CHRIST _HEALS_ THE SICK...

Many Many testimonies are comming back from missionaries in Africa (where
AIDS is a LOT worse than in America) where large numbers of people
are receiving healings..
I am not one to jump on any super spiritual band wagon when there is no
reality in it, but come on guys, lets not forget that our Lord is a God
who HEALS!!

Aids is not bigger than Jesus!

(by the way, I am not saying go and live irresponsibly and then hope that you
get healed, I just wanna state that JESUS IS ALIVE, AND HE HEALS!!)

An important thought when you take into the account the Holiday this weekend.

---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:20:43 CST
From:         CXKJP%UTXDP.bitnet@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      Dominoes
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.

Darryl-

  I realize it sounds extreme to link the right to an abortion
with contraception, however I remember distinctly the people
in the Texas town I was raised in voting for Carter primarily
because of his views on contraception. That was only about
15 years ago.

Kim
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:10:14 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Adolescent sexuality

Jeff,

Thanks for reminding me.  I am so forgetful.  Someone pointed this out years
ago for me and I should have remembered it!

                                         Your friend in Christ, Bernice
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