HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Non-physician bashing
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <habersch.725834526@husc.harvard.edu> habersch@husc10.harvard.edu (Oren Haber-Schaim) writes:
>
>Those are good, interesting observations on the folks who visit the
>various incarnations of quacks, but what about the other people,
>those who pretty much limit themselves to your straight-arrow
>conventional MDs?
>
>I suggest that the large majority of these good, upstanding citizens
>who stay away from quacks do so for the wrong reason.  They do it
>because it is the establishment thing;  if a quack system was
>the establishment thing, they would do that instead.

Yes, the secular scientific view is dominant in society.  That is
exactly why most people go to scientific practioners rather than
alternative ones.  That may change in the future.

>
>As an example, take an 80 or 90 year old person who has always
>believed in sticking with allopaths (PLEASE do not take this word
>as an insult, it is concise and I would be delighted to substitue
>any single-word equivalent that is suggested).  In the 1920s or
>even 1930s, conventional medicine was largely bogus -- but does
>our senior citizen believe in conventional medicine today for
>any different reasons than she believed in it then?

In the 1920s and 1930s there was sterile surgery, anesthesia,
the germ theory of disease.  Medicine was quite scientific,
and not bogus.  Maybe you meant the 1820s and 1830s, in which
case you are correct.  In those days you probably would do
just as well or better with a homeopath.  But even in the
days of Hippocrates and Galen, there were some things that
could be done for patients.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med,misc.health.alternative
From: echristo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elena A Christofides)
Subject: Re: Minoxidil and Hair loss
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:53:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.063745.5007@aristo.tau.ac.il> marsh@aristo.tau.ac.il (Mars
hall Rapaport) writes:
>Hi,
>  A little over a year ago a friend started using minoxidil (Rogaine) to
>prevent hair loss.  After she used it for close to a year, the treatment was
>stopped. Now my friend is complaining of great hair loss.  Will minoxidil
>cause hair loss if stopped and does this mean that it is a lifetime
>commitment (and a fortune of money)?

Yes.

That is because minoxidil is simply designed to ARREST further hair loss. it 
usually does not promote new hair growth. And if treatment is discontinued, 
then your hair will return to the state in which it WOULD have been had you not
been using minoxidil.
So basically, it is a short term arresting of the hair loss unless you WANT to 
spend a fortune for the rest of your life.
If the treatment center didn't tell your friend this - then they lied to her.
A friend of ours also went to a clinic, and they told him up front that this 
would most likely happen of he discontinued the therapy.

Elena
From: guru@camelot.bradley.edu (Jerry Whelan)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Sea water consumption
Date: 9 Jan 93 08:38:21 GMT
Organization: The Smelly Ditch

In article <10364@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> howard@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Howard Steel) writes:
-} 
-} Can someone please tell me why drinking sea-water is not good. Let me clarify
-} the question. I am looking for detail (not just there is too much salt).

	Though not what you asked for, this is an anecdote that I'd
appreciate comment on from anyone who wants to comment...

	My girlfriend lived in India, in and around Bombay, for the first
fourteen years of her life (until 1979).  She tells me that her family
and community routinely drank salt-water (I believe from the sea) rather
than fresh water and suffered no ill effects.  She also claims that it
took her quite a while to get used to drinking `sweet water,' but once
she started with fresh water, she couldn't go back to drinking the salt
water.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
``written by a drunken insane pathological liar''        guru@stasi.bradley.edu
From: chandran@next4.uafcs.alaska.edu (Prabhaker Chandrashekaran)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Skin Problem.
Keywords: Same with me.
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:50:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1993Jan5.225015.18750
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

In article <1993Jan4.230419.5143@raven.alaska.edu>  
lashman@next4.uafcs.alaska.edu (Lakshman) writes:
> Hello reader,
>  I am new to this group. But some one told me that any general health
> questions can be posted in this group. 
> 
>  Anyway, my question is :
> The skin below my eyes are black. It looks something like a Black Ring
> around the eyes. Most of them whom I ask say that it is because I dont  
get  
> enough sleep. And I do get enough sleep ( 8 or 9 or 10 ) hours every  
day.
> Can anyone help me in this ?. 
> 				Thanks. 

Same with me too. Some one says it is heriditary or specific to male.
My parents or grandparents dont have this problem. 
		
Xref: sparky sci.med:23737 misc.health.alternative:450
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med,misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Minoxidil and Hair loss
Date: 10 Jan 93 21:20:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan10.212010.23849
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1inj5u$mea@agate.berkeley.edu> abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch) writes:
>Steve -   is my memory playing me false or did I read a report
>a while back that rogaine may be linked to some nasty side-effects
>for some users?

It would be news to me; topical use of minoxidil as directed is not
linked to any nasty side-effects.  I would imagine that bathing in it
would increase skin absorption and increase the probability of systemic
side-effects typically seen in its oral use in severe hypertension.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Questions about Reynaud's Syndrome
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:34:35 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1993Jan5.180157.4314@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>>of substances and treatments that people have asserted are helpful
>>but have not been proven.  We train medical doctors in scientific
>>medicine, was has been proven or what should work based on scientific
>>principles.  Do not expect them to tell you about rumors.  They
>>will have no training in that, and we have no plans nor desires
>>to give them such.  If this is what you want, visit an herbalist,
>>not an MD.
>
>What crap this is. In the first place, very few MD's in clinical practice 
>would qualify as a scientist. Modern medicine is not a science. Its an art.
>Otherwise you could very easily replace the MD with a computer. Secondly,
>are you seriously suggesting that a well-trained herbalist bases his
>treatment on rumors? Just because an herbal remedy has not been 
>evaluated in a university or pharmaceutical firm does not mean that
>there is no basis for prescribing it.

It would be good if you learned to read, Bob.  Training someone in
scientific medicine doesn't make them a scientist.  Hopefully it
does make them want to practice scientifically, though.  Since we
have not replaced scientists with computers yet, don't you think
your statement about that is just a little silly?  I'm glad to
hear that as an herbalist you agree that giving everyone ginger
just because this person said it helped her isn't a valid idea.
So I guess she will have to look even further to satisfy her needs.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: liberato@dri.com (Jimmy Liberato)
Subject: Re: Colds & toothbrushes
Reply-To: liberato@drivax.mry.novell.com (Jimmy Liberato)
Organization: Novell/Desktop Systems Group, Monterey Development Center
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 04:33:21 GMT

markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) writes:

>I'm pretty sure I saw a report a while back (Science News?) that people
>tossing out their toothbrushes at the onset of a cold had less
>intense/shorter colds.

Why, were they brushing their nostrils or something?


--
Jimmy Liberato   liberato@drivax.mry.novell.com
                 ...uunet!drivax!liberato
From: km@ky3b (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Colds & toothbrushes
Date: 5 Jan 93 13:13:48 GMT
Organization: KY3B-Vax Pittsburgh, PA

In article <1992Dec29.084958.557@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>
>Should one discard one's old toothbrush upon contracting a cold in order to
>avoid reinfecting oneself?

No. "Colds" are not caused by mouth flora, but are due to viruses obtained
via the respiratory route that you don't yet have immunity to. The reason
that people repeatedly get colds is that they are exposed to slightly
different viruses. 

I am not an virologist or even and infectious disease persion, but I
don't think there are many viruses that would survive for long on a tooth-
brush, anyway.

-km
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)
Subject: Re: Questions about Reynaud's Syndrome
Organization: Strawman Incorporated
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:38:29 GMT

In article <1icplaINNcsu@duca.hi.com> wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.180157.4314@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>>
>>Secondly,
>
>Try "second."
>
>>are you seriously suggesting that a well-trained herbalist bases his
>>treatment on rumors? Just because an herbal remedy has not been 
>>evaluated in a university or pharmaceutical firm does not mean that
>>there is no basis for prescribing it.
>
>Doesn't mean that there is, either.  There are plenty of nice,
>dangerous herbs out there, in addition to some that doubtless work
>just fine.  (Not to mention problems with dosage, potency, etc. etc.)

Thirdly, I partially agree with you here. My objection to the line of
argument in this thread is the implication that we should assume herbs
are dangerous unless proven otherwise by so-called scientific medicine. 
This is simply wrong. Chinese and Auyervedic herbal medicine traditions
have long histories of safely using herbs. They know the cautions and
contraindications of each herb, how to safely nuetralize many of the 
toxic ones, how to safely combine herbs, how to control potency and 
dosage, etc, etc.
-- 
******************************************************************************
Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking
green@srilanka.island.com   that by his laughter he shows superiority instead
                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Colds & toothbrushes
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:07:29 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Dec29.084958.557@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:


>"reinfect" yourself with your own cold virus, because the very thing that is
>making it go away is the fact that your body is developing antibodies to it. 
>You won't catch the same virus again unless your immune system is compromised,
>though you might catch one of the other cold viruses, to which you have not
>developed antibodies. 

This is correct. Once you have had the one of hundreds of viruses that cause
colds, you are immune to it, probably for life.  THis is one
explanation given for why older people don't have many colds
compared to children.  I myself rarely get a cold except when
I travel to Europe or Asia, where I presumably encounter unfamiliar
viruses.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: evidence for homeopathy - who pays?
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:53:17 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1993Jan6.212902.5492@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>>in such things as homeopathy.  There was no outside superpower or
>>agency that closed homeopathy schools because they didn't conform
>>to Johns Hopkins.  All of them were for-profit business enterprises
>>and they failed for lack of business.
>
>First you said (in a previous post) that these schools lost their 
>accreditation. Now you say its because students chose to go to the
>"scientific" schools. You were right the first time. They did lose
>their accreditation. Students quit attending these schools because
>of that. That is why they went out of business.

Probably some of both.  I suspect old schools were grandfathered
in but lost their students and new schools couldn't get accredited.
You'll have to ask a historian of medicine which was the operative
factor of most magnitude.








-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: ns14@crux2.crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto Siemers)
Subject: Re: Digoxin
Organization: Department of Chemistry, Cornell Univ.
Date: 7 Jan 93 04:09:42

>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:06:17 GMT, scb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Sam Blackman) said:

 Sam> grmd@lrts1.demon.co.uk writes:
>Digoxin is a beta blocker (slows and steadies the heart)
>Can somebody please tell me how?
>Gareth R. M. Davies
>grmd@lrts1.demon.co.uk                 Work tel. +44 753 696777 x2613
>Home tel. +44 344 21729                Work fax. +44 753 696254
> No! Digoxin is a cardiac glycoside obtained from the plant Digitalis
 Sam> lanata.  Digitalis glycosides increase the force of myocardial


[delete]

	I assume the ! is because, like digitoxin, this drug will very
easily kill you.  It has been known for centuries.

--
--
/  | / /__|  /  /---/ /__| /  | /    nathan@chemres.tn.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Cellular telephones and brain tumors
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1993Jan5.173232.4856@netcom.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: 5 Jan 93 13:13:07

In article <1993Jan5.173232.4856@netcom.com> kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio) writes:

   In article <DRAND.93Jan5111703@spinner.osf.org> 
	   drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:

   >The power output is in
   >the several watt range.  This is pretty low power.  The antenna is
   >outside the vehicle,  usually at the rear, with the antenna as high
   >as possible.  This reduces exposure as well.

   You must not have read the post -- it refers to the hand-held variety
   of cellular phone -- which has a max. power output of 1.3 W   The very
   reason for the reduced power output (from the 3  Watt max. of the non-
   handheld variety) was because of the evidence that supports a causal
   link between the devices and brain tumors.  But even a very superficial
   analysis shows that a 1 watt handheld delivers many times the dose of
   a 3 W car phone with an external antenna.

Amateur radio handhelds put out between 1 and 5 W at 144 Mhz, 220 Mhz,
and 450 Mhz.  What is the evidence?  I'm not trying to refute it, just
making observations.  I did miss the note in the original post about
it being handheld.

   >There are multitudes of people who have exposure to much higher power
   >output of RF in the military (radar and radio operators).... 

   I think that the military has pretty low standards for preventing
   work-related injury.  Cf. Navy Dive Tables, etc.

But the evidence should be there for that very reason.  I'm not
making a statement about the principals or practices of the 
military.  You are,  in fact,  just strengthening my argument.

--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: common colds
Date: 5 Jan 1993 16:40:30 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


How long is the incubation period for the common cold? Does this vary
from one strain of the virus to another?

At what points in the infection is the patient contagious? Is it true
that one becomes contagious about a day before the onset of symptoms, and
stops being contagious before the symptoms are gone? Does this vary from
one strain of the virus to another?

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: das@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Nicotine Withdrawal Help Needed
Date: 10 Jan 93 03:58:34 GMT
Reply-To: das@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <726458356.AA00524@f-454.fidonet.org>, Robert.Lewy.MD@f9453.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Lewy MD) writes:
>I agree- nicotine is stored and depleted slowly. The crunch is more like 3-6
>weeks, and thats just the physical part, not the
>mental part.
>Nicoderm patches are really very good and much better than the gum.
>Good Luck

Thanks!  I'll need it.  Sunday will be two weeks and I'm (of course) still
finding things that make me want to (psychologically) head for a smoke - like
the phone call from my mom tonight for example :-).  But I had been wondering
about the sometimes intense *physical* cravings I've had sporadically over the
past five days or so; I hadn't anticipated them!  I have to remember that as
a well-endowed person with plenty of body fat to store toxins in (which I'm in
a diet/exercise program to reduce right now) that mini-hits of nicotine will
probably keep hitting me for a while yet.  But I've made it 13 days so far
and I'm feeling enough better that I'm *fairly* sure I've got this thing
licked.  (Am too superstitious to call it a sure thing <grin>).

Cheers,

Lora M. LeMosy, Duke University, Durham, NC USA
das@canctr.mc.duke.edu
I don't speak for the university and the university not only doesn't speak
for me, but probably doesn't know I exist.

/
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Hypothyroidism
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:53:38 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In <1ikh6eINN2qr@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>
  turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:
|In article <1993Jan8.170551.1747@island.COM>
|   green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
|
|> Acupuncture can definitely be used to stimulate a low-acting 
|> thyroid, as well as to treat hyperthyroidism, Hashimoto's, etc.
|
|Do you have *any* evidence of this?

Of course he does, or he wouldn't say that.  I'm sure he can point to
numerous (greater than 0) cases where someone's "low-acting" "thyroid"
was "stimulated" by acupuncture.

	/J
From: RDavies@cen.ex.ac.uk (Roy.Davies)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Raynaud's Syndrome (Unnoticed Logical Connections)
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:52:38 GMT
Organization: University of Exeter, UK.

I missed the start of this discussion on Raynaud's disease but anyone
interested in this topic might be interested to know of a couple of
papers that have been published on the the use of fish oils (e.g.
cod liver oil) to treat the condition.

Swanson, D.R.  Fish oil, Raynaud's syndrome and undiscovered public
knowledge.  Perspectives in Biology and Medicine vol. 30, no. 1,
1986, p. 7-18.

Digiacomo, R.A., Kremer, J.M. and Shah, D.M.  Fish-oil dietary
supplementation in patients with Raynaud's phenomenon: a double-
blind, controlled, prospective study.  American Journal of Medicine
vol. 86, no.2, 1989, p. 158-164.

Swanson's paper suggested on purely theoretical grounds that fish
oil would be beneficial to people suffering from Raynaud's disease
since that condition is associated with an increase in blood viscosity
whereas fish oil (and one of its constituents - eicosapentaenoic acid)
tends to reduce blood viscosity.  The same idea probably occurred
independently to Digiacomo, Kremer and Shah (since they did not cite
Swanson in their paper) and there trials showed that fish oils were
of some benefit to some patients.

The facts that Raynaud's syndrome is associated with an increase in
blood viscosity whereas fish oils tend to reduce it were lying around
in the scientific literature for some time before anybody noticed
the connection between them.  Swanson has suggested that because of
the size of the biological/medical literature and the inevitable need
for researchers to specialize in narrow areas it is quite likely that
there are many other unnoticed logical connections waiting for readers
to discover them.  He has published papers discribing two other
possible examples:

Swanson, D.R.  Migraine and magnesium: eleven neglected connections.
Perspectives in Biology and Medicine vol. 31, no.4, 1988 p.526-557.

Swanson, D.R.  Somatomedin C and arginine: implicit connections
between mutually isolated literatures.  Perspectives in Biology and
Medicine vol. 33, no.2, 1990 p.157-186.
	
Normally researchers search the medical literature to find out what
is already known but if Swanson is right about the existance of
unnoticed logical connections then researchers could get original
ideas by using a slight modification of their normal information
retrieval strategies.  Swanson has described the kind of search
strategies needed in another paper:

Swanson, D.R.  Online search for logically- related noninteractive
medical literatures: a systematic trial-and-error strategy. Journal
of the American Society for Information Science vol.40, no.5, 1989,
p.356-358.

Roy Davies                                      Telephone 0392 263884
The University Library                          FAX 0392 263108
University of Exeter
Stocker Road
Exeter EX4 4PT
UK
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: sex, menstruation, endometriosis
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:59:25 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu's message of 6 Jan 1993 15:38:29 GMTLines: 16

In <1ieudlINNf16@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu writes:
> 
> While I agree that 'retrograde menstruation' appears to be no more than 
> a speculation, you must be mistaken about the lack of a physiological 
> mechanism to propel something up from vagina to fallopian tubes. 
> 
> Talc is sometimes found in the ovaries, evidently as a result of 
> application either externally or onto a contraceptive diaphragm. The
> explanation given--perhaps again a speculation--was that the same 
> mechanism that serves to help sperm move upward can also move other 

Amazing.  (Learn something new every day....)

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA