HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Problems with the A4000
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:59:23 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

>> : Its not like IDE is that much of a transfer rate difference.  Equivalent
>> : drives, are basically the same price, and same speed, so why not fill up
>> : the IDE port with a single HD.

>> If I'm correct, and I'm really not sure on this architecturally, but
>> I'm pretty sure that the IDE system in the 4000 is NOT driven by DMA.
>> It, as IDE is normally found, is a polled IO system.
>
>Somewhere in between.  It's not DMA, but it's not polled I/O, since there
>is a "ready" interrupt and a (multi) sector buffer, which lets you transfer
>words (16-bits) without having to test for "data avilable yet" on each work.

	Well, it's not tested for by software, but the CPU is held off until
the word is available.  However, the transfer does run fairly fast, and the
CPU is only interrupted once the data is in ram at the drive.  We limit
Read/WriteMultiple to 16 sectors per transfer, a performance compromise after
playing around with different drives.  That is, if the drive supports it, we
get 1 interrupt per 16 sectors (or less) transferred (the drive reads 16
sectors, then interrupts us and we yank it down).

>> The faster the transfer rate, the more CPU you use.  A lot of people
>> would rather not suck the life out of their CPU when they've got SCSI
>> in a slot which uses 2-5% of the available CPU rather than 100% during
>> transfers.
>
>The raw transfer is obviously less efficient that DMA, however by the
>time you actually get the data where it's going and massage it a bit,
>it's not clear how much less efficient overall.

	The lower efficiency doesn't come directly from the PIO.  Loss
one versus DMA: each word must cross the bus twice.  No real loss for
instruction fetch, since we're talking '040 here, and it gets cached (likely).
Loss two versus DMA: (N+M-1)/M interrupts and 2 times that number of task
switches.  This is actually fairly large, especially as M may be 1, 4 or 8
instead of 16 (depends on drive - many are <16).  Loss three: the processor
may wait for the next word to be available in some cases (I'd have to look at
a scope to be sure, but the max xfer rate for the IDE bus is <2MT/s, well under
'040 read speeds).  Win one: less setup time and less complex interface.  This
is why IDE can often be faster than A3000 SCSI for smaller transfers (so long
as CPU usage isn't a problem for you).

-- 
To be or not to be = 0xff
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se
Subject: Re: CDTV vs CD-I, Crap CD-I Golf on Show
Originator: etxansk@garbod20
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:46:43 GMT

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:

>etxansk@garbo (Anders Skelander) writes:
>>To be more specific: I expected the CD-I machine's animation capabilities
>>to be something of a "new generation" experience, taking advantage
>>of the so-called "Full Motion Video" technique. 

>Wait a little while.  The full motion video card isn't out yet.

 Sorry, I forgot.

>That Golf game was one of the very first CD-I titles ever done.
>Some people love it; some don't care for it.  Personal taste, obviously.
>From a technical standpoint, it's interesting because the background
>is a pseudo 24-bit DYUV digitized photo of a real golf course.  The
>golfer is overlaid in 128 colors from the second video subsystem,
>using hardware masking via a Copper-like instruction stream.

 Are there CD-I titles available that really look good? Perhaps
Philips (or whoever was showing the machine) picked a visually less
impressive game by random.

>As time goes by, authors get better at using the hardware; the same
>as with CDTV authors. (You wanna talk about some really poor examples
>of "multimedia"? :^)  In any case, I think you'd agree that a person
>shouldn't make broad conclusions from seeing just one title.

 Agreed.

 Anders Skelander

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: easton@zds-oem.zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Organization: Zenith Data Systems, OEM Systems Engineering
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:37:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.205114.327@newshost.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.042705.20619@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au> dconnors@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au (David Connors) writes:
>>>  Why would a 486sx make any difference?  The only thing its missing is
>>>the math coprocessor.  Windows doesnt use it anyway.
>>
>>SX makes a *HELL* of a difference. An SX machine has a 16-bit data bus 
>>with a 32-bit CPU. Sort of cuts bandwidth down as bit, as I'm sure you can 
>>imagine.
>
>You're thinking of a 386SX.  A 486SX has a 32-bit bus, but no FPU.
>Also, I think the 486SX only runs at at 20MHz, though there might be
>faster ones now - I don't pay much attention to the 486SX market
>myself.

  Nope, the 486sx comes in 16, 20, 25 and now 33 MHz versions.  I wouldnt 
pay much attention to them either, except that my last computer design
happend to use them :-).

  btw, Intel is pricing the 486sx chips pretty low in an effort to kill
off the 386 clone market, I suspect.  Lets hope Motorola at least trys
to remain competitive with the Intel pricing structure.

>Paul Secinaro

-- 
  ___  ___    Jeff Easton             easton@zds-oem.zds.com
 (__  (__     Zenith Data Systems     j.easton@mi04.zds.com
 ___) ___)    Saint Joseph, Mich.     easton@andrews.edu
Monte Carlo   Z-433/DX   Team Rigel

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: NT on CD ROM only? -> was Re: Its a sad sad day...
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:16:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.121452.19910@newshost.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>>  The only way that most Clone users are
>>going to get NT on their machines is by stealing it from work like they
>>do everything else.
>
>How do you pirate a 600MB CD-ROM?
>
>Paul

Are you saying to run NT you need a CD rom player as well?  Gosh, are 
Microsoft trying to create their own market, or bundle their OS with a free
computer?  How many people have a 486 dx with 8meg+ RAM *AND* CD rom player?
So your config files go to the HD and every single driver known to man goes 
on the CD?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Flaws?
From: dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer)
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:56:16 -0400
Organization: NRL SPACE SYSTEMS DIVISION

> an upgrade.  Teasing the existing A3000 owners into upgrading will sell some
> additional machines, but many will find that machine adequate to their
> current needs or feel that the new machine isn't a large enough increment
> to justify upgrading.

Give the 3000 owners a power up plan, and let them decide (phuleeeezzee).
 
> -- 
> George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
> but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
> Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
-- 
Doug Dyer   *    STI   *    dyer@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil    | "(2B) | !(2B) -> ?"
DISCLAIMER:  These are my opinions, and not necessarily |  LOWLY SHOPKEEPER,  
those of STI, NRL,  and most likely you too.            | WHERE IS YOUR PEZZ!
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jayson@tbag.tscs.com (Jayson Phillips)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: A4000, A Marketable Machine?
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:43:57 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

 
on 23Sep92 21:20:20 GMT grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
 
>In article <kdarling.717138363@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu>
>kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>> Skip, the people who are complaining are potential customers, not brats.
>> It's up to Commodore to make a desirable machine.  Their customers are
>> not required to heap praise on one that has a perceived flaw.
>
>Yep, it's up to us to make a desirable (or should we say marketable machine),
 
A marketable machine.  Now there's a thought.
 
>both in responsone to current competitive conditions and those that we can
>forsee in the future.
 
The future?  040 machines came out 2 years ago.  Where were you guys?
 
>I think that Skip's "whining brats" alludes to those that have their own
>personal agenda as to what a new Amiga *must* be and who seem to be lacking
>the critical abilities to discern or discuss the merits of the next product
>*that is* and it's impact on the Amiga community.
 
After  30 years of owning the computer market IBM started claiming that "we
are  now a market driven company".  The market used to get what IBM decided
to  give them.  Starting with the RS/6000 (more or less) IBM started giving
the  market  what  it  wanted.   The A4000 seems to be a "here's what we're
giving  you" rather than a "what does the market want" machine.  The market
wants  SCSI,  16-bit sound and non-interlaced hi-res.  Of course CBM is not
required by any law other than supply and demand to give the market what it
wants.
 
>Now if any of you don't want 8 bitplanes/256 colors or an '040 in a machine
>that you can buy off the shelf, with full software support - just say so.
 
After  giving  CBM $6000+ for A1000/A3000, that 8-bit color and 040 without
SCSI,  16-bit_sound  and non-interlaced_hi-res isn't good enough to get yet
another $3200 of my money.  Your milage may vary.
 
>That's really what the product offers, and at prices that are reasonable in
>Amiga terms and competitive with other '040 products, if not the clone of
 
Reasonable  in  Amiga terms, like the Amiga is the only computer out there?
I  didn'y buy A1000/A3000 because it was the only thing going in computers.
I  bought  them  because  they  were the best bang for the buck compared to
anything  else that was available at the time.  The A4000 hardly carry's on
that tradition.  As far as that goes even the A3000 was lacking the already
widely available 8-bit color when it came out over 2 years ago.
 
>the month.
 
The "clone of the month" does 1024x768 in 8-bit color and is also very well
supported  with software.  Not that I care to buy one but it is a cheap way
to  get  hi-res 8-bit color.  And yes, the A4000/040 is cheaper than an 040
Quadra.   But  then  so is a color NeXT Station with 12-bit color, 1130x870
display and DSP.  Hmmmmm, now there's a thought.
 
 Jay Phillips * Tampa FL
 Amiga 3000 25Mhz/105HD/10MB
 USENET: tbag!jayson@tscs.com

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: csa.advocacy multimedia presentation?
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:56:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ra.1992Oct16.035636.9179
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <mXiosB6w165w@bugend.edvina.se> ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans) writes:
>Whatever happened with that idea about putting together a presentation 
>of some (all?) participants of comp.sys.amiga.advocacy? I've finally 
>managed to track down a UUde/encoder so I'm ready with picture and all.

I originally suggested the idea and would still be willing to maintain
the site.  However, the last time this was mentionned a war broke out
over what format(s) the files should be in.  Of course given the nature
of this newsgroup, that should have been expected.  :-)

Anyway, I'll be glad to accept anyone's pictures and audio samples and 
will attempt to organize them.  I've access to ADPro, ImageMaster, a
Video Toaster, GVP sound sampler, SoundBlaster Pro, various Windows,
X-Window, and UNIX utilities, and other nifty hardware and software at
work.  I should be able to handle almost any sort of format and will
convert all of them to IFF.

The ftp site is : cy.cs.olemiss.edu (130.74.96.19)

Or, send the pics & samples via email to me at the address below.

>              _#      **MMp     g#00   `N##0"    _agN#0P0N#           _#L
>             g##       jN##    j##F     J##    _dN0"      "          g##L
>           _#]##      _0 ##L  jN##F     ###   g#0"                 _03##L
>          gE_j##      #  0## jF ##F    j##F  j##     ______       gE_j##L
>        _0"""N##     d"  J##L0  ##F    0##   0##     "9##F"     _0"""5##L
>      _gF    ]##    jF    ##0   ##F    ##F   `##k     d##     _gF    j##L
>    _g#_    _j##L__g#__   ]N  _j##L_ _d##L_   `#Nh___g#N'   _g#_    _j##L_
>   `""""    """""'""""'    "  """""" """"""      """""""   `""""    """"""

(Keeping the .sig in 'cause it's cool and it pisses MB off :-)

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:13:17 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I hold in my hands the CBM 1992 Anual Report....
 <1992Oct10.061752.12644@coplex.com>

In article <1992Oct10.061752.12644@coplex.com>, dannie@coplex.com (Dannie
Gregoire) says:

>Perhaps microsoft dribble like yourself might also like to know that
>the Amiga is quite capable of running PC software (including windows

Hold on here. .advocacy wasn't created so that morons (whether pro-Amiga
or anti-Amiga) could launch personal attacks. The person you responded to
posted some interesting information; your post was useless. ("dribble"
to use your terminology)
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga Blitter 40% slower than Atari Blitter (???)
Date: 7 Oct 92 06:01:33 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Oct6.165312.29480@news.uit.no> terjem@stud.cs.uit.no (Terje Normann Marthinussen) writes:
> In article <etxansk.718382232@garbod20>, etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se writes:
> >u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:
> >>wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!) writes:
> >
> >>Lets be honest?  Who actually owns an STe to test this out?  Last time
> >>I heard, CBM were selling more C64's a year than Atari could dream of
> >>selling STes.
> >
> > Could somebody please reveal who's actually buying the ageing
> >C64 computer? I know the STe never made it to the top, but as far
> >as I can see there's no reason why we should even mention C64 sales
> >any longer. Commodore UK's C64 Game System, a pathetic NES wanna-be,
> >flopped out of sight.
> 
> I thought I read that C= sold 700.000 C64 last year....

The reference was to a C64 Games Console (no keyboard) that Commodore UK
thought would sell well, since Nintendo/Sega/etc hadn't targetted Europe
at that time.  Turned out that there wasn't much interest in Games Consoles,
but standard C64 sales weren't adversely affected.

I don't know what the current C64 annual volume is, but it's gradually
declining - maybe by the year  2000 we'll finally be done with them...

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Subject: Re: The Amiga A1200 ??
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:30:06 GMT

HANS C SANDER writes:
>jaxh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Jon Hanson) writes:
>>Apparently, the British 'Computer Trade Weekly' had an article claiming
>>C= are going to release an A1200 at one of the upcoming computer fairs.
>>It will have the new chipset and Falcon-beating spec's for under 500
>>pounds. Does anyone have a00 has been scrapped by Commodore.

If it helps any, there was a recent discussion on CIS about how stores
received some material which showed a computer with a "A1200" label...
but it appears this was just the original name for the A600.

So there may or may not be an A1200 coming (I hope there will be one),
but some bogus rumors may have arisen because of this A600 picture.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Subject: Re: A4000 is kinda UGLY !!!
Organization: City University, London
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 13:37:00 GMT

jonallen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jon J. Allen) writes:
>In article <pXFOr*J54@aquarium.Buffalo.NY.US> ernie@aquarium.Buffalo.NY.US (Ernest J. Gainey III) writes:
>Amiga. (We do video imaging / machine vision work)  We could be a lot
>richer had we moved to the Amiga....  
>

I am an ex-software engineer. I _tried_ to get my company to move
to the Amiga. But no, it had to make its own 68020/multitasking
wimps type workstation. Anyway if it had moved to the Amiga maybe
it would not have gone bust.

Roll on the day when software engineers can choose which platform
to work on. Networking maybe?

--
Lionel Tun   (lionel@cs.city.ac.uk)
Vision Group, City University, London, EC1V 0HB. 071-477 8000 x 3889
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The A4000 little-review
Date: 10 Oct 1992 18:21:43 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <david.031p@ariane.cam.org> david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel) writes:
>   Games, demos, or anything that open non-standard (and even some program
>that open standard) screens will be in 15khz (ie. ugly scanlines in 200, and
>ugly interlaced display in 400).

>   I'm keeping my A3000. In fact, when the OS will support DIG, every Amiga
>will be able to plug in a card, and play with higher resolutions.

But the very same games, demos, or anything that open non-standard screens
that don't promote with AGA will probably not work with DIG.

BTW, are there any games that use modes besides lo-res or hi-res NTSC or PAL?

Problems will likely occur with games that do a lot of copper-list tricks,
especially if they use different copper lists with even and odd scans.
But, then again, most games don't use interlaced displays.

-- 
Richard

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: A4000 First Impressions
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:31:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Keywords: Yeeeee Hawwww!

In article <Bw4Frx.I65@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jmm30809@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jillene M. Mittelman) writes:
>iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>
>>I just had the chance to play with an A4000.
>
>>In one word: Absolutly Awesome!

>>/* IanK@Microsoft.com				*/
>>/* Waiting for what comes after the A4000! 	*/
>>/* In the meantime I think I'll pick up a  	*/
>>/* '486 box...					*/
>
>Maybe you should change the signature now :)

Not yet! :) I'm going to Comdex and we'll see then!
The A4000 gave me hope. I hope it is justified.
-- 
/* IanK@Microsoft.com				*/
/* Waiting for what comes after the A4000! 	*/
/* In the meantime I think I'll pick up a  	*/
/* '486 box...					*/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Michael Cree)
Subject: Re: Buy Falcon or A4000?
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:33:18 GMT

Chris Green (chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
: 	Not to mention the fact that you can actually go to a store and purchase
: an A4000 NOW.

Really??? Where?

I went down to the store and they told me that the didn't expect the a4000 to
arrive in NZ to next winter... that's May 1993 for you upside down northern
hemisphere people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Cree                              Gold there is
cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz                 and rubies in abundance;
                                          But lips that speak knowledge
                                           are a rare jewel. (Prov 20:15)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 is kinda UGLY !!!
Date: Fri,  9 Oct 92 16:35:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct9.185111.22157@ra.msstate.edu>

>
>Is the way the computer looks that big a deal?  Sheesh, it is a tool that
>you use, not something to decorate your office with.  I used to keep the
>cover off of my A1000 all the time, but somehow I still managed to get
>things done.  If someone has trouble using a computer because it is not
>pretty, I really feel for them.

Well there is something to say for attractive industrial design.
True ya can't judge a book by its cover and I'm not asking for
Amigas to be designed with lots of chrome, portholes and '59
caddy tailfins (although that's kinda a kinky idea in itself :-)
but then again I don't see any Amigas being included in the
collection of the Museum of Modern Art either. 

Take a slightly more lenient view, if you can, Skip. Aesthetics
ARE important to some of us out here, although I'll admit it's
not a major sales factor to me far as computers are concerned.
>
>BTW, I can think of several computers that are uglier than the A4000.

[most of list deleted]
>
>Mac Plus/Classic/etc.   The wimpiest excuse for a computer ever created

I sat down at my brother's Mac SE/30 a few months ago (yeah yeah, he's
a heretic.. nuttin I could do about it) and studied it for a while
and played with the keyboard and looked at the design of the thing
and I thought to myself "hmm.. self, this thing is a pretty attractive
piece of design and the keyboard has a wonderful feel to it, right down
to the texture of the plastic". I didn't like the tiny monitor but
the idea of just being able to pick the thing up by the scruff of
its neck (handle at the top) and move it from point A to B appealed
to me a lot. It looked like it was made of expensive stuff.


>Plus, how about all of the old 8bit Apples, Ataris, Commodores, CPM boxes,
>CoCos, 99/4As, Adams, etc.?

The old 8bit apples also had a real solid "feel" to them to me. 
Ataris, especially the ST series, was gruesome, especially the
julienne-cut function keys. I could never stop laughing at those.
VIC-20 and C-64 were kind of shapeless lumps. 99/4A with all its
brushed aluminum didn't even look like a computer. I notice you didn't
have the NeXT machines on your list, though. Do you find them
attractive? Except for the really crappy mouse, I was very impressed
by their sense of design, not to mention the quality of NeXT Inc's
literature. While I'm drifting from the topic, I've always found
CBM's sales literature (the stuff customers can pick up at trade
shows and dealers.. not the stuff they send to dealers to learn
how to sell) to be bland at best.
>
>Skip Sauls
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Harv Laser
Media Critic for Hire ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jyork@iastate.edu (Justin York)
Subject: Re: LCD glasses for Amiga
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:54:41 GMT


While we're on the subject, does anyone have the Amazing Amiga/Computing/etc
hack to hook up a pair of Sega glasses to the Amiga so that they emulate
the X-Specs? I already own the Sega glasses, so I'd rather not buy the 
X-Specs if I don't have to.  

					Justin York
					jyork@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics