HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:08:06 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1993Jan4.042942.28827@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, mf@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (fusco,marc) writes:
> In article <1993Jan3.225143.10333@athena.mit.edu> jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes:

> 	They also lowered the criteria in CT to only 2 people in the car.
> Tailgaiting is becoming more prominent too.

If enough 2-passenger cars start taking using the HOV lanes they will 
raise it to 3 people.  That's the plan here in Silicon Valley, CA.

Be very, very careful about violating these.  Here the fine is somewhere in
the neighborhood of $350.  That's double what other moving violations
go for, like running a red light or speeding in a school zone.  In fact,
during rush hour you rarely find a police officer in a school zone with a
radar gun or staking out an intersection.  They all out at the expressway 
hoping to bag those evil HOV criminals.

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: oyalcin@IASTATE.EDU (Onur Yalcin)
Subject: Re: Revenue collection, Aussie-style
Reply-To: oyalcin@IASTATE.EDU (Onur Yalcin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:57:40 GMT

Just this weekend I have been stopped for speeding on I35W- the peripheral of
Minneapolis. Relying on my radar detector, and on my belief that you won't get
stopped for speeding on such peripherals (since everyone speeds), I had been
cutting in and out of the traffic, at times reaching 95+ in a 55 zone. 

When I saw the cop's lights flashing, I thought "That's it I'm f***d!". My
friend on the passenger side for some reason wanted to hide the radar before we
stopped, but failed to do so in time. 

The officer asked me to step out of the car. I was expecting an alcohol test,
but my appearance must have sufficed to convince him that I was sober. He said
he had been following me for a while, and that he saw me cutting in and out of
the traffic adding that his computer displayed our average speed as 76mph. He
also said that he saw us trying to conceal the radar detector, but that this
wasn't necessary since these aren't illegal in Minnesota. He was smiling as he
said this. I think the thought that he knew everything that passed through my
mind, and the enjoying chase had amused him. Encouraged by his mild attitude, I
said that I wasn't trying to hide the detector, but that I wanted to smash it
since it didn't save me. We laughed (I waited for him to laugh first).

He repeated that 76 was my average speed. I admitted that we both knew that my
peak speed was a lot higher than that. I said I wasn't trying to put anyone in
danger doing what I did. He said he understood that. He fined me based on my
average speed, and he said he could also fine my on the way I was driving, but
that he thought that wasn't really necessary.

--
Onur Yalcin 
oyalcin@iastate.edu

"Serefe"
From: rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:24:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1993Jan7.152037.17566@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h) writes:
>
>I don't like the idea of HOV lanes because they grant an exclusive right
>to a limited set of vehicles to use public property which I as a taxpayer
>have also payed for.
>

True, but there are all sorts of laws like this already!  Only an exclusive
group of vehicles is allowed to drive on public roads:  those that meet
safety, emmissions, noise, etc etc regulations required of streetable cars
in the US.  Are you equally upset that your new car has an airbag and a
catalytic converter?  Or that you can't put a race car on the road?

Even more similar to the HOV restriction are roads which only allow cars
and roads that don't allow trailers of any kind.

And not all roads are paid for fully by your taxes (tolls, private roads,
roads paid from taxes not everyone pays equally (like gas tax)).

Andrew
rhoades@ll.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,or.general
From: eew1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh)
Subject: Interesting ticket....
Reply-To: eew1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:52:21 GMT

My friend just got a ticket saying he was doing 77 mph on a 65mph zone.
However, the ticker also has a written error: the date of the speeding
incident was written down as Dec 2, 1993, instead of Jan 2, 1993 -- the
cop wrote a ticket for an event in the future.  Does he have a case in 
court or should he just plead guilty and pay the fine?

From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:31:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Revenue collection, Aussie-style
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving

In rec.autos.driving, bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:

| People here haven't yet realised that what's on the photo is
| *NOT* what the radar works on. 

Uh, not sure what you mean.  It's late so my brain is in a semi-shutdown state
:-)

Lawrence

| I'm still waiting for somebody 
| with the knowledge and money to challenge these "infallible"
| "scientific instruments".
| -- 
| +-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _-,_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /  |   \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.'-._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
| |m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio;6442;3.55;)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:02:27 GMT

In article <Fm9RwB1w165w@major.panix.com> dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea) writes:
>gt7460c@prism.gatech.EDU (SHERIDAN,BRADLEY RYAN) writes:
>
>> Does anybody know if the State Patrol is required to calibrate their radar
>> guns? I was pulled over and wasn't able to talk my way out of the ticket,
>> so I asked the pig to calibrate his radar. He claimed he didn't have to.
>
>As far as I'm aware, this is a requirement, or really procedure, that
>varies from one police department to another. If the cop made the bust
>in keeping with his department's usual procedure, you'll be fighing an
>uphill battle. Remember, the judge gets his paycheck from the same
>people as the cop.

This usually varies according to state law.  In New York, the officer
must calibrate the radar every so often to remove any doubts of using a
malfunctioning unit.  I don't know the interval, and I'm too lazy to
look it up.

>> Also, when I go to court, what are they(cops) required to bring in as evidenc
>
>Diddly. Cop's testimony is enough, unless you have good reason to
>believe the equipment is provably defective.

Again, this varies from state to state, but in New York, that isn't the
case.  The officer must show that he has the proper training to operate
the unit (ask for his certificate).  In addition, you can request to
inspect the maintenance and calibration log, which he must have with
him.

>> If I bring in proof that my speedometer was off by 13mph will the court
>> dismiss the ticket(78 in a 65)? Would anyone believe my speedometer was off
>> that much? I have a different size tire than factory but never got the speedo
>> recalibrated.

A friend was driving through Pennsylvania on I-80 a few years back, and
was given a ticket for 70 in a 55 zone.  She fought the ticket (a
three-hour drive each way), but before she went to court she had her
speedometer calibrated.  It was off by about 10%.  She had the garage
give her a certificate noting the problem, and the judge threw it out.
It was an expensive proposition, though-- the three hours to get to
court, the time to get the speedometer calibrated, etc.-- she wanted to
keep her license, though (-:.

-JPC

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Curcio 		          Go Bruins!		   Philips Laboratories
jpc@philabs.philips.com 			           345 Scarborough Road
(914) 945-6442               	 		     Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: ham@wam.umd.edu (Scott Richard Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Interesting ticket....
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:53:21 GMT

>Somebody earlier wrote about using your common sense regarding whether or
>not a judge would dismiss the violation.  Think about the mistake the
>officer made:
>
>	1/2/93 vs. 12/2/93
>
>The mistake seems as if he added an extra 2 and put the slash/hyphen/whatever
>in the wrong place.
>
A friend of mine who enforces regulations pertaining to tow truck licensing
told me that every citation he writes he has to double-check at this time
of the year.  If he writes 1/7/92 instead of 1/7/93, the judge will 
toss it out because of incorrect information.  Montgomery County, MD...

So I think there is a case for getting the ticket tossed out.  Most 
definitely, a good case.  

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: Revenue collection, Aussie-style
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 01:43:25 GMT

In <1igotlINN47p@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes:

>leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG) writes:

>>One day out of town, noticed a cop standing behind a VCR-like contraption.
>>Device was mounted on a tripod, connected to several black boxes on the
>>ground.  Cop was sighting at oncoming traffic (around a bend) thru this
>>device.

>>Was this photo radar, or laser, or something else?  Anyone know?  I assume 
>>this was for revenue collection.  And no, I was not caught.

>This would have been a "Photo" based system.  If you are speeding the radar
>tells the camera to take a photo of your vehicle (number plate).  The 
>police stand next to them to stop people swerving off the road to drive 
>over them :-)  A few days later the owner of the car gets a ticket in the mail.

There's a cop nextto it for two reasons:
 1) it's expensive equipment -- though I've seen one abandoned on a
    median strip during a downpour -- (should have stopped and
    returned it to the Police a few weeks later as having been
    "found on the side of the road" :-))
 2) Part of natural selection. The microwave emissions are at
    testicular height. :-) The tripod is adjustable to assure
    that this is always so...

>They are very effective revinue devices....I think 3 cameras raised about
>$300,000 between them in 4 months.

People here haven't yet realised that what's on the photo is
*NOT* what the radar works on. I'm still waiting for somebody 
with the knowledge and money to challenge these "infallible"
"scientific instruments".
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _-,_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /  |   \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.'-._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
From: jmuth@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (John Muth)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:11:52 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <C0FzLJ.M4E@inews.Intel.COM> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.042942.28827@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, mf@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (fusco,marc) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan3.225143.10333@athena.mit.edu> jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes:
>
>> 	They also lowered the criteria in CT to only 2 people in the car.
>> Tailgaiting is becoming more prominent too.
>
>If enough 2-passenger cars start taking using the HOV lanes they will 
>raise it to 3 people.  That's the plan here in Silicon Valley, CA.

Yeah, but they have to find a few 2-passenger cars to use them first :-).

John Muth
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:51:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.225143.10333@athena.mit.edu> jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes:
>
>I-84 through Hartford has some very-expensive looking carpool lanes (at
>interchanges and exits there are separate over/under-passes; when the HOV
>lane parallels the road there is enough unused pavement to add 1.5 new
>lanes).

Living in CT I see these lanes used almost every morning, by just a handfull
of people and a few busses.  One of the latest tricks by the local speed
Nazis is to run radar traps in the HOV lanes (because durring rush hour
its the only lane they can get apositive lock on.)

>
>Is this really worth the cost?  I go through Hartford a few times a year at
>off-peak hours, and there is very little traffic on the HOV lane.  Is it
>different during rush hour?  It seems to me the money would have been better
>spent making the main road wider.

Is it worth the money HELL NO, CT now has the worlds most expensive bus
lane.  My mother lives in FL, and I have had the opportunity/mis-fortune
of driving through Orlando where they make the left most lane
a HOV lane durring specific hours.  But this makes too much sence for CT,
and makes ENFORCEMENT almost impossible, this state would rather spend
millions on SEPARATE entrance and exi ramps for a lane thats RARELY used.


>If you do take the HOV lane, you have to travel at the speed of the slowest
>car because there is no room to pass.
>
Yet ANOTHER reason I refuse to use them!!

>--
>    John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)


Jeff
------

jmh@turing.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: worden@bouncer.nsc.com (Dennis Worden)
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:19:00 GMT

|> 
|> This is major flame-bait, but it is my opinion that HOV lanes are a
|> symptom of rampant busybodism that borders on socialism.  Our
|> governments are using vehicle registration and tax funds to force a
|> misguided social agenda on the American public.  For more info on this
|> philosophy, read back issues of Car and Driver.  Also P.J. O'Rourke
|> talks about similar moronic ideas in "A Parliment of Whores"
|> 
|> HOV lanes are totally without merit.  The only thing worse are Bus only
|> lanes.  Other stupid ideas that are springing from these busybodies:
|> Seat-belt laws, speed limits, oxygenated fuels, public transportation,
|> gas guzzler taxes and passive restraint mandates.
|> 

Absolutely right!!  Here in California (the land of budget deficits 3 years
running!!), specifically in the San Francisco Bay area, there is a non elected
"Air Quality Board".  Now the can't pass laws (they're not part of the
legislature) and they can't enforce laws (they're not part of the courts)
but somehow they do accomplish these legal atrocities.  Next one up, in the
desire to eliminate 99% of the vehicular miles traveled in the Bay Area
(that will really help the local economy) they are pushing this:  If you
company doesn't charge for parking (thus discourging employees from driving)
then they want to treat that parking as a taxable benefit, and ADD to your
income something like $155.  Aside from the fact that these scum aren't
accountable to anyone, how can they tax something that you didn't receive?

I wonder if they only want to eliminate 99% of the miles traveled because
their employees travel the other 1% in state paid cars?
-- 
Dennis Worden, not representing $  When the TEAM succeeds, you succeed,
anybody, not even himself, in   $  but when the Team fails, you're FIRED.
any way shape or form.          $  Don't EMAIL me at worden@berlioz.nsc.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: essbaum@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Alexander Essbaum)
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 22:48:25 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <hhelanto.725949270@vipunen.hut.fi>, hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi (Henri R Helanto) writes:
|> In <1992Dec30.193437.26773@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
|> 
|> 	I think there's nothing you can do. They got your
|> 	speed and gave you a ticket. And worst of all, 
|> 	you admitted that you exceeded the speed limit.
|> 
|> 	Rule #1: Never, EVER admit ANYTHING. 
|> 
|> 	Rule #2: Speak as little as possible. If they bothered to
|> 		 stop you, they'll fine you anyway. Don't bother 
|> 	 	 to be nice to them.

not.  i would say i've been pulled over ~twice as many times as i've
received tickets.  that includes ~80 in a 40 zone racing somebody (i was
young and foolish back then ;).  i was polite to the cop and he didn't give
me a ticket.  a cop can make most anything a hassle.  that includes giving
tickets for bogus violations.  i'd say you're better off "bothering" to
be nice (not kiss their ass, not lie; polite) than having them think you're
a dick and need more punishment.

|> -Henri
|> -- 
|>  Henri Helanto - SysOp    |	'MY LAST SONY! THE TOY THAT BROKE UP!'   
|>  hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi  <->    m40176m@puukko.hut.fi   
|> -+*> Call MyBBS (+358-0-485067/485068/485968/485918/488139, 24h) ! <*+-

axel
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h)
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 15:20:37 GMT

In article <1ifqodINN3j4@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>>As far as criminalization goes, they have an 800-number here.
>>All someone has to do is take your tag, call it in, and you
>>get a ticket. Even better than photo radar... Be kind to your
>>fellow man, or he may scream "Witch!", and point at you...
>
>...whereupon I'd contest it in court.  Your accusor has to show up
>too, right?

Everything I know about contesting such tickets would seem to
require the "accuser" to show up, or else there's no
evidence on which to find the accused guilty.  And even if I
received a ticket in that manner AND the accuser did show up,
I'd put the following questions to him/her:

1. Did you have absolute ability to see every "corner" of my
vehicle's interior to determine if anyone was laying down, sleeping, etc.

2. You claim there was only one person in my car, did you see
   my child sleeping on the back seat?
     
Remember, the state must prove you are guilty, you do not have to
prove you are not quilty.
Anyway, you get the idea and odds are the "accuser" isn't going to
show up anyway.

I don't like the idea of HOV lanes because they grant an exclusive right
to a limited set of vehicles to use public property which I as a taxpayer
have also payed for.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!cc!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@cc.bellcore.com
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Interesting ticket....
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:14:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: what.. me.. organized?

In article <1993Jan5.025221.503@news.columbia.edu>, eew1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
> My friend just got a ticket saying he was doing 77 mph on a 65mph zone.
> However, the ticker also has a written error: the date of the speeding
> incident was written down as Dec 2, 1993, instead of Jan 2, 1993 -- the
> cop wrote a ticket for an event in the future.  Does he have a case in 
> court or should he just plead guilty and pay the fine?


IMO, the friend has a case. A friend of mine was pulled over for going
through a yellow-turning-to-red light in Orange County, Calif. The officer
mistakenly wrote down the wrong road names of the intersection
on the ticket. My friend said in court that the intersection doesn't
exist. They brought out a road map, checked it out, and the judge let him 
go.





_______________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                      |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@raman.ucsd.edu |
#######################################################
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Subject: Re: Left lane road hogs (again)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 15:43:29 GMT
Organization: Illinois State University

In article <1993Jan6.020339.10213@pentagon-gw.army.mil> grant@pentagon-gw.army.mil (Pete Grant) writes:
>
>Well, back from another round trip from Washington DC to Miami.
>Once again, the traffic was horrible and, to make matters
>worse, it seemed that all the left lane road hogs were out
>there in droves -- more so than ever..
>
I experienced similar conditions between central IL and Ft. Myers.  During my
trip there was a greater concentration of LLHs south of Atlanta.

-- 
Chas                         DoD #7769

"Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"
                                               - Firesign Theatre
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: amb@cs.columbia.edu (andrew m. boardman)
Subject: Other Auto Plans That Cover Attorney Fees?
Summary: ...besides Citibank's, that is...
Organization: Slug Hordes of the Planet Gamma
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:19:52 GMT


As I was throwing away a bunch of papers in preperation for a move, I
noticed at the top of one (at the time, I had a CitiBank credit card)
from CitiBank that was pushing their Auto Club/Plan/Whatever-it-was, that
along with road service and the usual other stuff, they cover attorney
fees up to $1000 for traffic violation defense.  This strikes me as
astoundingly useful for frequently ticketed persons (many readers of the
newsgroup, for instance) and I was wondering if anyone else maintained
this practice.  AAA, to the best of my knowledge, does not...

A summary of any mailed responses will be gladly posted.

andrew m. boardman
amb@cs.columbia.edu
From: dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 09:30:45 EST
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department

worden@bouncer.nsc.com (Dennis Worden) writes:

> Absolutely right!!  Here in California (the land of budget deficits 3 years
> running!!), specifically in the San Francisco Bay area, there is a non electe
> "Air Quality Board".  Now the can't pass laws (they're not part of the
> legislature) and they can't enforce laws (they're not part of the courts)
> but somehow they do accomplish these legal atrocities.  Next one up, in the
> desire to eliminate 99% of the vehicular miles traveled in the Bay Area
> (that will really help the local economy) they are pushing this:  If you
> company doesn't charge for parking (thus discourging employees from driving)
> then they want to treat that parking as a taxable benefit, and ADD to your
> income something like $155.  Aside from the fact that these scum aren't
> accountable to anyone, how can they tax something that you didn't receive?

It's a trick that various government agencies have discovered in recent
years; you can treat any benefit that someone would conceivably pay for
as taxable income. Voila'; instant tax revenue, and often done without
having to do something messy, like hold a vote on it.

Before I quit working in New York, the city managed to make it a taxable
benefit if your employer provided you with transportation home when
working late (which many companies did when their employees started
getting raped and killed in the subways late at night). It was a fairly
piddling amount, something like $125 a year, but like sales taxes and
tolls, they'll discover that it's a usable source of revenue, and boost
it up until people have to decide whether to get raped on the F train,
or the 1040 form.



--
4x4 owners do it in the mud. And snow. And dirt. And rocks. Kinky, huh?
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving