From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Independent Slavo-Macedonia
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:31:04 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:

>I agree with much of Schoinas's discussion of ethnicity.  Almost all
>Greek Vlachs seem to consider themselves Greeks as well as Vlachs, and
>certainly have no wish for union with Rumania.  On the other hand, the
>Greek state could also be more accomodating to the Vlachs.  For
>instance, civil servants in Vlachophone villages could make some
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>effort to learn the local language, Vlach traditions could be taught
>in schools, etc.  Of course, Greece is not unique in this: French
>civil servants in Brittany don't speak Breton (although Breton is now
>taught in the schools); Italian civil servants in Sardinia don't speak
>Sardinian; etc.

Come on, give me a break! Do civil servants in Crete speak cretan,
in Ionian islands the local (heavily influenced by italian) dialect,
etc. Modern Greek were established out of the need of the newly 
founded state to have a common language. In modern states, you 
cannot have 100 different dialects taught at public schools. Local
dialects are nowadays more of a matter of cultural clubs than public
education.

>In article <1992Sep2.191432.4412@cs.wisc.edu> schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu
>(Yannis Schoinas) writes:

>   The current opinion is that they come from the latin speaking roman
>   garrisons that were placed along the roads of the roman empire.
>   Intermarriage of the soldiers with the locals (remember that the
>   roman soldiers were given pieces of land after their retirement)
>   created enclaves of latin speaking people all over the balkans. It
>   is said that in Thessaly the greek language survided only in the
>   cities.

>This is an interesting theory, but does not explain why Vlachs are
>traditionally nomadic shepherds.  The theory would predict that they
>would be settled farmers.  But of course such things can change over
>the centuries.

Actually, there was a recent series of articles in Eleytherotypia
about the origins and culture of the vlachs. This was supposed to be
the most widely accepted one. The assertion about the land giving
privileges are mine. I think in the paper it was hinted intermarriages
with the locals leaving at the mountainous passages of the roman roads.

>   Note that there is not a single vlach dialect but a bunch of them 
>   that all have as an ancestor the common latin. All of these dialects 
>   have the same connection between them as french have to italian or 
>   spanish.

>This is not true according to any of the books on Romance philology I
>have studied.  The various Vlach dialects are different among
>themselves the way the various Romanian dialects in Romania are
>different among themselves.

>A more widely accepted theory seems to be that the Greek Vlachs are
>nomadic shepherds who migrated in the Ottoman period.

No, I would not agree with this statement. The origins of the Romanians
is a highly disputed matter from what I have understood reading various
things in the pasty (mainly between hungarian and romanian historians). 
The dacic descent of the Romanians seems a little bit ridiculus since it
is known that the Romanians came to Roumania from the South. It would 
require having the Dacians making a cycle in the Balkans. I am not sure
how widely accepted is the theory of the romanian descent of the vlachs
outside the romanian cycles.

>   An interesting information: the dialect of the majority of the 
>   Greek Vlachs (armanic) has 50% greek words and 8% slavic words
>   compared to 8% and 20% respectively in the romanian language.

>This is not surprising, under either theory.  Vlach has been in
>contact with Greek rather than with Slavic languages for some
>centuries.

>	-s