From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:43:09 GMT


>>     1.  Orthodox Jews do not "own" our religion; theirs is but
>>         one legitimate INTERPRETATION of what God expects from
>>         all of us Jews!

>Nobody "owns" a religion. But for 3,000 odd years the Orthodox
>"interpretation" as you put it has been the one that has been
>universally accepted (apart from a few breakaway groups like the
>Saducees and Karaites). I think that the Orthodox are quite justified
>in maintaining that 3,000 odd years tradition.

I don't think so.  Orthodox Judaism, today, is just one of the evolutionary
paths that our religion took.  It is not THE path; it is not the ONLY
path.

>>     2.  In justifying the legitimacy of the Conservative and
>>         Reform movements, we do NOT have to show consistency
>>         with the Orthodox INTERPRETATION of our Law; after all,
>>         who died and made them boss?

>O.K., but then don't expect the Orthodox to go along with the
>Conservative and Reform interpretations and certainly don't get upset
>when they don't.

No problem here; I don't agree with the Reform interpretation of our
common law, but I do respect their right to believe that it's what
Judaism expects of its adherents.

>>     3.  While there may be some issues regarding the Reform
>>         definition of who is a Jew, and these are issues that
>>         ALL Jews need to work out, to the satisfaction of
>>         ALL Jews, there is be NO REASON whatsoever for Jews
>>         of all sects to refuse to accept a convert from a Bet
>>         Din of Conservative Rabbis.
>
>The reasons are quite clear. First, they don't accept Torah Mi'Sinai
>(ie. both the written and oral Torah) completely and secondly they
>don't feel bound by ALL the Mitzvos (a sine qua non in conversion).

We most certainly to accept the Torah that God gave to ALL of us; just
because we don't accept some of your INTERPRETATIONS doesn't mean that
we don't accept His Law.

As far as the ALL the Mitzvot, even Orthodox don't observe ALL the
mitzvot that are listed in His Torah.  Of course you rationalize them
away, but what it comes down to is that what you observe is one of several
valid, legitimate interpretations of what obeying God's Word of 3000+ years
ago means today.  I mean, in the last 50 years or so-

    1.	How many of you Orthodox brought your sacrifices to the
	Kohanim?

    2.	How many of you who claim to be Kohanim performed the sacrifices
	listed in His Torah?

    3.	How many of you married your brother's widow?

    4.	How many of you returned your property to its original owner?

    5.	How many of you who farm for a hobby let your fields lie idle
	one year o within the last 7 years?

    6.	How many of you have worn the "thread of blue" that the Torah
	requires of us?

In short, when the Orthodox claim to be observing ALL the Mitzvot, what
they are really claiming is that they are observing the Mitzvot as
they are defined for the current time, and that goes back to point 1
of my posting about their claiming to "own" our religion to the exclusion
of other equally legitimate interpretations of it.   I can't speak
for the Reform, but the Conservative Movement, like Orthodox Judaism,
is based on observing His Law to us, as defined and interpreted for
the current time.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com