HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scooter@eurasia.earth.nwu.edu (Scott Relyea)
Subject: Muppet Christmas Carol 
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:38:54 GMT

Hi all, want to start off saying this is a great newsgroup, I've been such
a huge fan of the muppets as far back as I can remember, and a source of
news like this is great.

That said, about the Muppet Christmas Carol... I was VERY disappointed
The Muppet Movie is my favourite, and I think is clearly the best of the
(now) four movies, but the follow-up two weren't bad.  This latest release
is just BAD.  Maybe it's because they weren't silly enough, took the story
too seriously, had to wear all that 19th Century clothing or something.

First of all, Kermit was not in it nearly enough, we got to see Michael
Caine all the time, and he's NOT a good Scrooge.  The whole film just
wasn't silly enough...case in point:  Fozziwigs (sp?), Scrooge's first
job with Fozzie Bear running a rubber chicken factory, but did they do
anything at all with this? NO!  Gonzo and Rizzo were okay as narrators,
but they tried to force the silliness sometimes ...

I don't know, maybe I'm comparing this to The Muppet Movie too much (the
songs in this one were not very good either) ...

Other comments?

Scoot


-- 
||                       || "Dans ce meilleur des mondes ||
|| Scooter@earth.nwu.edu ||  possibles ... tout est aux  || 
||                       ||  mieux." - Voltaire          ||
||-------------------------------------------------------||
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: hutch@hfglobe.intel.com (Stephen Hutchison)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:34:44 GMT

mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman) writes:

>> 9)  What separates this Muppet film from other films is the subject
>> matter--Christmas[...]But like many Christmas texts, and contrary to the
>> original, there is very little Christ in this Christmas Carol[..]
>> Instead, the film focuses on the warm, fuzzy feelings that we're all
>> supposed to have, regardless of religious affiliation.

>Additionally, as someone else pointed out, Xmas is less religous than
>it used to be, and making references to the religous meaning of the
>holiday offends/alienates a great many people.  The modern version of
>peace and goodwill, while kind of bland, I suppose, is not
>controvercial -- perhaps it was a good idea to avoid making statements
>about what is, in this script, not the true subject.

What a bunch of idiots.  Oh, am I being uncharitable?  Too bad, so sad.
Inappropriate?  Between you and Angela there's been considerable smug
self-righteous bitchin-n-moanin about "having religion shoved down your
throats" - a tiresome whine at best, as religion is no more shoved down
your throats than anything else in this media-intensive society.

Christmas (not "X-mas" - you can spell the word out, it won't rot your
fingers, it's not an offense to G-d to write the whole thing), the
RELIGIOUS HOLIDAY, celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ, the fellow we
Christians believe is our Saviour, the Son of G-d, all that stuff?  If
it has indeed been "shoved down your throats" you know the details,
right?  So it's really too bad that it offends the tender wimp-atheist
sensibilities, that a holiday which is part of the celebration of a
RELIGION should have RELIGIOUS OVERTONES!  Dicken's Christmas Carol was
written by a Christian for what he considered a universally Christian
audience, and if you don't like it, just get over it, because ripping
out the Christian referents perverts it into a meaningless and stupid
exercise in wasted sentimentality and shallow banal superstitious pulp
novel garbage.  Dickens put them there, he intended them to be there.
Sure, he was trying to tell a ghost story, and he downplayed the overt
religious elements, but there's no reason to excise them further.

If you want to celebrate Hannukah, or one of the many other religious
holidays (pagan especially) that's wonderful, and I am happy to see
it done, but don't bitch and moan when Christians try to keep the
elements in THEIR holiday that make it what it is supposed to be.
And that includes being disappointed when yet another movie is made of
a story that contains an allegory for salvation, and finding it jarring
that all references to the agency of that salvation are removed.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL
Reply-To: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Organization: Bull HN Info Sys, Billerica MA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:50:33 GMT
Keywords: author=Hogan

First, Do you mind a comment regarding your format?  You called this a
"ten step review," but I can't discern the steps.  It seems to me you
took an ordinary review and numbered the paragraphs.

> 7)  Of course, one would expect that the Christmas Carol would center
> around Ebeneezer Scrooge.  His initial appearance justifies that, but I
> suspect that he's not as important to the film as the Muppets.  And
> Michael Caine, I suspect, knows this.  His performance is perfunctory
> and adequate to the role, but has very few qualities that would make him
> a memorable Scrooge.

This is, I think, a charitable description of Caine.  I thought he was
amazingly bland.  As the evil Scrooge, he was closer to Oscar the
Grouch than Scrooge the Miser.  Perhaps they didn't want to scare the
kiddies, but I was disappointed in the performance.  Also, he seemed
almost eager to change his ways as soon as the Marley Bros. appeared.
Like he had read ahead in the script and wanted to get it over with.

> 9)  What separates this Muppet film from other films is the subject
> matter--Christmas[...]But like many Christmas texts, and contrary to the
> original, there is very little Christ in this Christmas Carol[..]
> Instead, the film focuses on the warm, fuzzy feelings that we're all
> supposed to have, regardless of religious affiliation.

While it's been a long time since I read Dicken's story, I don't
recall a great deal of direct commentary regarding Christ; as was said
by others his story is very much a social commentary.  The "warm,
fuzzy feelings" are what the Muppets do best -- call it playing to
one's strengths.

Additionally, as someone else pointed out, Xmas is less religous than
it used to be, and making references to the religous meaning of the
holiday offends/alienates a great many people.  The modern version of
peace and goodwill, while kind of bland, I suppose, is not
controvercial -- perhaps it was a good idea to avoid making statements
about what is, in this script, not the true subject.

--Mike
-- 
Michael Gelman -- M.Gelman@ma30.bull.com 
Bull HN Info Systems -- Advanced Engineering Program 
(Any similarity between my opinions and those of Bull, living or dead, are
entirely coincidental.) 
Xref: sparky alt.tv.muppets:1870 alt.slack:3591
From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets,alt.slack
Subject: Re: REVIEW: THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:22:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.tv.muppets
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <C01ILx.BrE@hfglobe.intel.com>, hutch@hfglobe.intel.com (Stephen Hutchison) writes:
>
>What a bunch of idiots.  Oh, am I being uncharitable?  Too bad, so sad.

Oh, so _that's_ the spirit of Christmas!

>
>Christmas (not "X-mas" - you can spell the word out, it won't rot your
>fingers, it's not an offense to G-d to write the whole thing), the
>RELIGIOUS HOLIDAY, celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ, the fellow we
>Christians believe is our Saviour, the Son of G-d, all that stuff?  If

Yeah, sure. And Christmas is _also_ about Santa Claus, the jolly
red-clad fella who brings presents to all the good little boys and
girls. I'm surprised you haven't noticed this, but - - the "secular"
Christmas (which can just as well be spelled "Xmas") is a LOT more
populat than the "religious" one.

And what's with "G-d"? It's all right to say "God". It's the
Tetragrammaton you're supposed to hush up about.

> and if you don't like it, just get over it, because ripping
>out the Christian referents perverts it into a meaningless and stupid
>exercise in wasted sentimentality and shallow banal superstitious pulp
>novel garbage.  Dickens put them there, he intended them to be there.

"A meaningless and stupid exercise in wasted sentimentality and
shallow banal superstitious pulp novel garbage."

Oh, and "Joy to the world" to you too, bub.

>If you want to celebrate Hannukah, or one of the many other religious
>holidays (pagan especially) that's wonderful, and I am happy to see
>it done, but don't bitch and moan when Christians try to keep the
>elements in THEIR holiday that make it what it is supposed to be.

Well, you're happy to see it done, unless it's the MOST COMMON
HOLIDAY IN AMERICA. Can't let anyone sing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed
Reindeer", it's not "Christian". Better get rid of all those
Christmas Trees, too. (Totally off the subject - did you know Martin
Luther started the Christmas Tree tradition? 'S true!) Stockings?
Lose 'em!

Sorry, kids, this is a solemn occasion. Don't sing Jingle Bells.

What are you, a complete IDIOT? Sheesh!


Follow-ups to alt.religion.christian.bigoted.moron.

 -Paul "Monty" Ashley
-- 
I'll be in San Francisco in early January. What shouldn't I miss?
E-mail suggestions to the address cleverly hidden in the header.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: mary@lgc.com (Mary Peterson)
Subject: Re: Swedish chef translator: lost my copy...
Organization: LandMark Graphics Corporation
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:29:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.152854.19946@admiral.uucp>, dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman) writes:
|> Silly me, I deleted the copy I had of the source to the Swedish Chef
|> translator program. Would someone please mail it to me? 
|> 
|> Thanks!
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> "Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> "Ray, when somebody asks you if you're a god, you say YES!" -- Winston Zeddmore

Dave, 
When I tried to email you, the mail bounced. So excuse me for posting this
to get it to you.


%{

 	/*  English to Swedish-Chef translator;  loads of family entertainment
	    pjkelle@eos.ncsu.edu   Pat Kelley
	    To compile: lex swedish
			cc -o Bork lex.yy.c -ll
	    And Bork is the executeable.  Pipe your favorite files through it.
	*/

        char buf[128];
%}
%%
"and"   printf("und");
"And"   printf("Und");
"Then"  printf("Den");
"then"  printf("den");
"the"   printf("der");
"The"   printf("Der");
"Yes"   printf("Ya");
"yes"   printf("ya");
[Ww]hich        {yytext[0]-=1;printf("%cich",yytext[0]);}
"x."    printf("xy.");
"x "    printf("xy ");
"w "    printf("w ");
"w"     printf("v");
"W"     printf("V");
"d."    printf("dy.");
"d "    printf("dy ");
"p."    printf("py.");
"p "    printf("py ");
"v"     printf("f");
"e "    printf("ey ");
"e."    printf("ey.");
"ir"    printf("ur");
"or"    printf("ur");
"ou"    printf("oo");
"ue"    printf("oo");
"Th"    printf("D");
"th"    printf("d");
"ick"   printf("ook");
[Ww]orkstations {yytext[0]-=10; printf("%coosies",yytext[0]);}
[Ww]orkstation  {yytext[0]-=10; printf("%coosy",yytext[0]);}
[a-d]s\.        {sprintf(buf, "%s  Bork bork bork. ",yytext); printf(buf);}
[h-m]s\.        {sprintf(buf, "%s  Yee bore de yee bore! ",yytext);printf(buf);}
%%


-- 
Mary
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: rcpeders@iastate.edu (Robert C Pedersen)
Subject: The New Movie
Keywords: muppet christmas carol
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:08:31 GMT

I thought the new movie was great.  It wasn't especially silly, but not
everything done on the Muppet Show or Sesame Street is/was meant to be silly
either.  Further, the Muppet Movie (at least; I don't remember the others
well) had some very poignant moments.  So instead of a silly movie with
poignant moments, we had a poignant movie with silly moments.  There was
indeed a touch of schmaltz (sp?), but again I feel this is typical of
previous ventures.

I felt that Caine was a magnificent Scrooge.  I thought he not only carried
off the evil Scrooge and the good Scrooge, but also did a great job with
voice and facial expressions showing all the stages in between.

I did think that this was not the strongest soundtrack, but I'll probably
buy it anyway.

A word about the treatment: several weeks ago when we were casting Hamlet,
there were two approaches running simultaneously: a serious approach with
the muppets as actors, and a hilariously botched Muppet-Show like
presentation.  Both approaches are legitimate, and both would be worth
watching.  The producers of MCC took the serious approach, and, IMHO, did a
fine job with it.  But I can understand that some would prefer the other
road.


-- 
Bob Pedersen
Recent Graduate and Flunkie, Iowa State University
Future Library Science student, University of Iowa
I speak for neither institution
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: The Muppet Christmas Carol
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:30:05 GMT

I thought that "The Muppet Christmas Carol" was a good Christmas Carol movie,
and very funny.  I don't think of it as a "Muppet Movie" so much as a version
of "A Christmas Carol" with the Muppets in it.  I think that the story really
took precedence over the Muppetness, but I'm not complaining, because in
many ways, they were very true to the book, and threw in bits that are often
cut out.  I really enjoyed it, personally, and I think it's great to see
the Muppets back.  I'm going to go see it again.  And the kids in the audience
seemed to like it too - they were absolutely silent (except for laughs) after
the first 15 minutes (something I can't say for Aladdin).
As always,
Your obedient servant,
Gabrielle de Lioncourt
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: gal@crchh503.bnr.ca (Gene Lavergne)
Subject: Re: The New Movie
Keywords: muppet christmas carol
Reply-To: gal@crchh503.bnr.ca (Gene Lavergne)
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:46:30 GMT

In article <BzMFq8.Ft0@news.iastate.edu>, rcpeders@iastate.edu
   (Robert C Pedersen) writes:
|>I felt that Caine was a magnificent Scrooge.  I thought he not 
|>only carried off the evil Scrooge and the good Scrooge, but also
|>did a great job with voice and facial expressions showing all the
|>stages in between.

I agree fully!  I expected FAR less from him than he delivered.
This is the first thing I have seen him do that didn't look like he
was just going through the motions.

I am glad they cut Belle's song.  It just does not fit well into the
soundtrack.  It reminds me of those songs Dolly Parton crow-barred
into the movie of The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.  When you got
to one, there was an immediate wrong-context feeling.  I wish they
had kept Sam's, though.

--

| gal@bnr.ca (Gene A. Lavergne) | In all of opera, I most identify |
| ESN 444-4842 / (214) 684-4842 | with the character of Elektra.   |
| PO Box 851986, Richardson, TX | That often worries me.           |
| USA 75085-1986 | Opinions expressed here are mine and not BNR's. |

Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: v143pfey@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (MAN OF BOHEMIA)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
Subject: New Soundtracks
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

To whom this may concern:
     I just heard from mu aunt that Jim Henson Records (A part of 
     BMG for kids) is reprinting all of the old Muppet
     soundtracks including The Muppet Movie, and The Great Muppet
     Capper.  They are also coming out with a Muppet Show Greatest
     hits.  For more info, leave me a message!
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: st923361@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Carrie)
Subject: Muppet Christmas Carol
Reply-To: st923361@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:30:53 GMT

O.K., I'll admitt that I did not like the new Muppet Movie.  I saw it the 
night it came out and through out the whole thing, I just kept thinking to 
myself that this does not even come close to comparison with the other three
"greats".  The music was bad and the one liners were not as funny as I was 
expecting.  Overall, I felt that the movie was cheesy and I left the theater
disappointed.  Does anyone else feel the same way?
				-Carrie
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: brophk@aix.rpi.edu (Karl James Brophey)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL
Keywords: author=Hogan
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:11:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.212216.10358@wam.umd.edu> angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.) writes:
>With respect to Kermit's voice, he sounds younger than usual to me, if
>that makes sense.  And yes, it is heartwrenching to watch.  I keep trying
>to convince myself that it's still Kermit.  I finally decided that it
>is not the Kermit that I always new & loved.  (Among other things,
>the old Kermit was a confirmed bachelor.)  This is a different Kermit;
>he has many things in common with the former one, but he is not the
>same.  However, many special friends & loved ones change over time, until
>they are no longer the people they used to be.  You simply learn to love
>the new people they have become.  I am already very fond of the new
>Kermit.  He may never _be_ his predecessor, but this new frog is lovable
>in his own way...

First I would like to point out about Kermit being a confirmed bachelor,
the segment from Nightline which was also run during The Muppets 
Celebrate Jim Henson.  In this segment Kermit is on describing the 
stock market in layman's terms and Miss Piggy comes one asking Kermit
when he is going to be home -- they are very much the couple if not
actually married.  This is much more than is done in MCC in which 
Kermit plays a character who is married to Miss Piggy's character.
I'm not sure if this was ever done in the Muppet Show, but it seems
likely.
As for the new voice, anyone who has watched the muppets over the
years should think back or just watch some of the older material
and realize that the voices have indeed evolved over all of these
years.  Even what the characters look like (particularly Miss Piggy
I've noticed) has changed.  To me this is just another step, and
while I am saddened to have lost the incredible artistry Henson
lent his characters, I love seeing the Muppets continue.
My only disparaging remark about the change in voices, and MCC
in general is that the people doing new voices seemed a bit weak
when it came to singing.  While I absolutely adore the songs by
Tiny Tim (Robin) the piece by Statler and Waldorf I found almost 
painful to sit through.

Just my $.02

--
Karl Brophey          | "Maybe even you, can believe in you too."
brophk@rpi.edu        |   -- Robin in The Muppets Celebrate Jim Henson
From: mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Mary E. Allison)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
Subject: Thought for the day
Date: 21 Dec 1992 23:10:37 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu

Just a thought

FIRST - look at my signature

If Freud (you remember him) were to study Jim Henson's Muppets, what
conclusions would he make about Jim??


--
Peach on earth!!!!     Gimme present!!!!
  -- Animal

    Mary Allison (mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu) Urbana, Illinois
Newsgroups: alt.tv.muppets
From: gunther@world.std.com (Gunther W Anderson)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of "The Island?"
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:00:19 GMT

In article <C08x7u.8G9@unix.portal.com> dstein@shell.portal.com (Doug Mr-Science Stein) writes:
>Several years ago I played a game that a friend had for his Apple II called
>"The Island" (I think).  It was obviously inspired by The Prisioner, and
>managed to capture some of the oppressive wierdness of The Village.  The
>game was written in BASIC.
>
>Does anyone else remember this and, if yes, does anyone know if it still
>exists (particularly in a PC version)?

I seem to remember that it was indeed called the Prisoner, and it took place
on The Island.  I played it a bit, but it never grabbed my interest enough.
I've never heard of it on another platform, but if you've still got the
original somewhere, you can use an Apple ][ emulator instead.  I've seen
a quite good Apple ][ emulator running on a friend's 386 months ago, but
I do not recall its name.  Check out comp.emulators.apple.ii (or something
like that) for more detail.

						Gunther
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: jhugart@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Jacob Hugart)
Subject: Re: prisoner fonts?
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:31:18 GMT

Phillip.McMillan@newcastle.ac.uk (P. McMillan) writes:

>has anyone got the fonts for the prisoner series in either TrueType, Adobe
>Type 1 or CorelDraw format. I would be very pleased if someone can supply
>them, especially as TrueType.

Albertus is the font used in the series.  The lowercase 'E' is modified in the
series, and you can recreate it by overprinting a hyphen over a lowercase 'C'.
(This can be done in MS Word using the typesetting command .\O(c,-) ).  For
the lowercase 'I' without the dot, use a small point size of the capital.

Albertus is available from Adobe in PostScript Type 1 format.  It's listed in
their catalog; I don't know the cost or the number.

Albertus is also available from Monotype in TrueType format.  This costs about
$60, and is listed in the MacZone catalog, or maybe MacConnection.

Be seeing you.

-- 
Jacob Hugart  <jacob-hugart@uiowa.edu>
--------------------------------------
Take nothing but pictures,
   Leave nothing but footprints,
From: bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org (bob myers)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: the bicycle & alt. ver. of Chimes...
Date: 25 Dec 92 12:23:55 GMT
Organization: 3-B Technology

I've just received for my christmas present the "Alternate version, Chimes
of Big Ben", and I have a question or two...which could have replies
posted here or sent to me directly.

At the tail end of the tape, they show/explain the meaning of the 
bicycle; I seem to be a little on the slow side, or confused if you like,
about the symbolism.

Can anyone tell me the significance of "POP"?  I can understand the
possible relavance of what the wheels represent...

thanks

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Myers                        | You gotta watch out for those
Shyguy's AT&T SVR4 Unix/Uniboard | shy guys....you never know 
Email:bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org | what they're thinking..:)
Xref: sparky alt.tv.prisoner:1937 alt.comedy.british:2840
From: michael@marcel.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner,alt.comedy.british
Subject: Re: Prisoner fiction writing
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:18:46 GMT
	<1992Dec24.103605.15220@midway.uchicago.edu>
Followup-To: alt.tv.prisoner
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: kmrc@ellis.uchicago.edu's message of 24 Dec 92 10:36:05 GMT

kmrc@ellis.uchicago.edu (Hoosier Red) writes:
  =Hi, there--

  =A while back, I did a series of rather irreverent parodies
  =regarding TP.  Namely, they were a Blackadder/Prisoner crossover,
  =with Edmund Blackadder as a disgraced agent who, in trying to get
  =ZM73 kicked off MI5, accidentially winds up in the Village himself,
  =along with Baldrick (Number One-tenth).  I called it "Blackadder
  =5--the Village years," but I wasn't sure if people would get the
  =joke.  If folks are interested, I'd be delighted to post them to
  =this newsgroup.

  =MAM
  =Ever careful of stepping on toes
  =Or treasured TV shows. ..
  =-- 
  =kmrc@midway.uchicago.edu . . . and don't you forget it
  =Only loosely associated with the University of Chicago
  ="PMS?  No, I'm always like this.  Why?" -- Hoosier Red
  =*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Please do post them!

Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner