HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:07:10 GMT

braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER) writes:

>	Whenever I know I am going to GM a game ( these days CP or CoC ) I
>will sit down and say to myself: what do I want to do with these guys this
>session.  I will write down a page of stuff for ideas, possibly print up
>a screamsheet, or ancient text from my computer (the laser printer makes it
>look soo cool too.)  
>	But I am very , very flexible in the way I run the scenario.  I also
>spend about half an hour afterwards tying in the new NPC's, and other info.
>This is then kept in a nice folder, to help generate new ideas and keep a 
>sense of continuity.  

You have just described exactly how I organise my Cyberpunk campaign ( now 
moving into it's fourth year, having featured over 30 different Players
and Eris knows how many characters - my personal record. Anyone ever had
more than 30 different players in one campaign? ). I sit down for about
an hour before hand and decide what's going on with regards to any
corps or NPC's that are 'floating' ( or any unresolved rumours ), and 
sometimes prepare a player hand-out which is almost certainly going to get
used - such as a Screamsheet. 

Then, after an improvised session, I spend another half hour recording new
plot lines, NPC's, or other relevant information. I have a box file which 
weighs over a kilogram full of sheets of paper generated by the campaign -
including a lot of hand out's generated during play. Believe it or not,
if you improvise, you can still create hand outs on the spot. The players
are used to a brief 'bar break'/'fag break' during play ( we usually play
in a room under a pub - highly recommended ) and I use these to compile
any hand outs or maps that I might need (I have never stopped marvelling
at what can be done in 5 minutes... ).

This approach wouldn't work for every system, but it works great for Cyberpunk.

Mad Chris.
From: ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison)
Subject: Improvisation!
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:08:43 GMT

I was reading the GMing goals thread, and someone mentioned
improvisation vs. preparation, and it lead me to ask this
question of GMs in this group:  How much improvisation do
you do?  Do you improvise 10% of the time, when characters
"go off the map"?  Do you improvise 50% of the time, writing
up a skeleton for "run time" fleshing out?  Do you improvise
even 90% of the time, having a basic premise and just "wing" it?

I'd say I used to improvise 20% of the time and have (through
either laziness or experience (or both) gone more toward 80-90%
improvisation.

Any thoughts on improvisation?  Preparation?

Eric
-- 

------
Eric Chris Garrison			      UCS Support Center
ericg@ucs.indiana.edu			      Indiana University
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: The Benedictine Problem (amber question at bottom)
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:24:42 GMT

In article <BszHuy.Eyx@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kcrook@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Prince Of Amber) writes:
>How does this scenario strike you?

[bad bow scenario snipped]

OK, time to clear up some misconceptions.  Benedict was the best warrior
and strategist of the Amberites.  I agree!  Why do some of you think that makes
him the ultimate perfect unbeatable and untouchable warrior?  He lost
his arm to a HellMaiden.  He is not perfect.  he is not portrayed as
perfect.  He loses his temper, more than once in the books.  He is
somewhat hot-headed.

And as to the bow scenario?  That is unlikely IMO.  He's pissed at
Corwin.  He wants to get up and do it close.  He's gonna cut Corwin's
F*cking head off!  Why didn't he just get a thermonuclear device and
set it off in Corwin's shadow?

The idea floating around that he is incapable of making a mistake when
it comes to warfare is ludicrous.  He's the best.  But he can be
beaten.  He has been injured.

Also, why was it necessary, from a plot point of view, for Benedict to
chase Corwin and for Corwin to konk him on the head?  Why was that necessary
to advance the plot?

Question:

Reading the stats on Merlin, Dara and other half chaosites, I was stunned.
Merlin has chaos stats for all attributes except for psyche in which he
has a measly 4!  Martin, sone of an amberite and a shadow human or some
such is a normal amberite.  Merlin, the son of Corwin and a chaosite is
a wimp (attribute wise).  Same with Dara.  What gives?  Sounds like an
error to me!
-- 

-Ben
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: joshua salter <jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: More Combat Monster
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:51:50 GMT


	I would appreciate more Combat Monster posts.
	(This is not a joke.)

								-jsalter
From: jgould@adobe.com (Jim Gould)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: REPOST:Gurps FTP site
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:25:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe

Hello,

 Just posting again, looking for a FTP site that has GURPS (pref. fantasy)
info, adventures, suggestions for play...

Thanks for the time
Jim Gould

E-MAIL me
jgould@adobe.com

"I was their number one son, but they treated me like number two..."
-- The Penguine
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:25:30 GMT

juola@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (Patrick Juola) writes:
>>high attributes greatly outvalue skills. With a skill of +10, you are supposed
>>to be an expert in that skill - but if you only have an Attribute of, say, 4,
>>then someone with an attribute of 10 and a skill of +5 is better than you.
>>This is a rally stupid problem, which I admit I'm not too bothered about
>>rectifying in my Cyberpunk game, because the mechanics themselves ( apart

>I accept this criticism of the system.  I find it remarkably easy to
>correct, however.  Someone builds an abusive character, I waste it 8-).
>Seriously, though, if you don't have characters floating around with
>godlike stats (I suggest all stats in the range 3-7), the system is
>*extremely* smooth and well-balanced.  Maybe I've got my players too
>well-trained, but most of the people I play with are even more
>suspicious of one-sided characters than I am.  Someone with REF 12
>and APP 0 is, of course, going to be the one who needs to talk his
>way out of an experimental nuclear lab.

>At low attribute levels, the system seems to work quite well.

I find that the system isnt too bad, I limit the level of stats by putting
a cost on hi stats.  ie above 6 or 7 they have to put 2 points to raise 
it one.  
I can also live with the idea of someone with +10 in attribute, as it means
that they are a born natural - and can do this stuff better than you can.

And if you dont like 'em, waste 'em.  As has been said before.

hook
From: michaelm@cse.fau.edu (Michael Marcus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Music & Roleplaying
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:42:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: cybernet.1992Aug16.074225.15844
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <1992Aug11.084152.1755@cs.kuleuven.ac.be> philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre) writes:
>Has anyone tried to use music and/or sounds during a roleplaying session?
>Did it enhance the atmosphere of the game, or was it just annoying when the GM
>was busy trying to locate the correct sound on a tape?

Sure!  So far, I've used a march by Bizet, Negativland's _Escape_from_Noise_,
Joe Satriani's (sp?) _Surfing_with_the_Alien_, and a few others depending on
momentary needs!  I do, however, suggest using at most one track per tape to
avoid queuing problems.  And, of course, using a CD player!

Mike Marcus
From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:28:25 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Aug20.042503.2511@mdcbbs.com> mikew@mdcbbs.com (Mike 'the Bard' Whitaker) writes:
[ about extemporaneously-conceived NPC's ending up becoming important ]
>
>Having said that, some of them are in an odd-halfway house. Two or three of
>the major NPC's in my world are actually originally minor characters in 
>published scenarios! 
>
>Anyone else find they do this a lot?

Yup - although almost all are my own creations, rather than being from
published material.  That said, one of the important NPC's in my
campaign (now the Captain of the Guard in an important independant
city-state) started out as a nameless 2nd level grunt in a published
scenario.  He was written into the scenario as cannon fodder, but he
miraculously survived, and at one point saved the life of one of the
party members during the course of completing the module (the only
published scenario I have ever used as-written).  As the only
surviving NPC from the module, he ended up getting a cut of the
treasure from the PC's, and enough experience points to kick him up a
few levels.  These days, he's an important and powerful ally of
theirs.

>True... Interesting question here - how many of your players *know* you
>improvise, and to what extent? 

Beats me.  :-) I think I fool them pretty well, since I have masses of
written materials behind my DM's screen (almost all are notes made
while improvising, so that I won't forget later on what I'd done :-).
They seem to assume that these copious notes are regarding the current
adventure, whereas in fact, I'm writing up (taking notes on) the
current adventure as it happens.

>Mine know that a lot of my preparation
>never makes it down on to paper (and is frequently done (say) sitting
>waiting for players to arrive or driving down to the place I GM) but
>some of them certainly weren't sure (at the time of the murder mystery I 
>mentioned in my earlier post) how much I was genuinely making up at the time.

Yeah, I don't think I fool them all the time - especially when they
take off in a thoroughly unexpected direction; they must know that I
haven't gotten that area written up or developed in any detail, so
they know that I'm improvising then.  Also, the handful of times when
I've been "off the mark" (tired, other things on my mind, etc), then
my improvisation goes to hell in a handbasket.  I have to be alert and
focussed to do it right.

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC
From: jhawes@everest.srd.bt.co.uk (Jason Hawes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:43:02 GMT
Reply-To: jhawes@srd.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom

From article , by ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison):

> I was reading the GMing goals thread, and someone mentioned
> improvisation vs. preparation, and it lead me to ask this
> question of GMs in this group:  How much improvisation do
> you do?  Do you improvise 10% of the time, when characters
> "go off the map"?  Do you improvise 50% of the time, writing
> up a skeleton for "run time" fleshing out?  Do you improvise
> even 90% of the time, having a basic premise and just "wing" it?
> 
> I'd say I used to improvise 20% of the time and have (through
> either laziness or experience (or both) gone more toward 80-90%
> improvisation.

A few years ago I became well known amoungst my gameing group for
100% improvisation. I just used to make it all up as I went along.

It was quite a point of humor because, because whenever the party
came across a junction in a corridoor, say, they knew that I didn't
know what was down each corridoor either.

Now I find it difficult to create a whole adventure 'on the spot'
like I did, but as for the classic 'party moves off the map` syndrome
- if the party don't know what the map looks like then I change it,
so they end up heading where I want them to . .

> 
> Any thoughts on improvisation?  Preparation?
>

I aim for as much preperation as I have time for - to make the game
smoother and faster. I could carry on with huge ammounts of
improvisation, but I find that much more than 50% slows the game down
(or 60-70% is ok for simple systems like D&D - 30-40% may be the
limit for something like Rolemaster ).


Jaz 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider)
Subject: Re: Character Sheets
Organization: The Banzai Institute
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:34:15 GMT

wsbusr1@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Boudewijn Wayers) writes:
: 
: Recently, I posted an archive of character sheets to
: rec.games.frp.archives, containing about twenty different character
: sheets for various systems. Due to running diskfix on my hard disk
: without disabling my cache, I lost practically my entire hard disk
: contents, including this archive.
: 

Could you please forward where this archive can be reached so the character
sheets are ftp'able?


Steve J. White
aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
skeptic@large@9600bps
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:46:45 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug19.011922.976@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
 dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER) writes:

> A good GM must be ready to embrace both methods - otherwise the game suffers.
> Pre-advancement means good maps and other visuual aids.  Good Improv means
> that the characters don't feel they are trapped in a boring module and
> can't really stop where they are going.

This is what I have been talking about since this thread began. I got 
involved with this discussion when Steve said he improvises 99% of the
time and prepare 1% of the time (and that was to work with the world
campaign map, I think).

A mix is best for me also. I prepare a good-sized outline of the scenario,
with the basic events, NPCs, encounters, clues, items and areas. When I 
see a place in the plot line where the players might diverge from the 
scenario, I prepare what I think of as ``sub-flooring,'' which is just
knowing what I will do if the PCs go off script at a certain time (like
if they want to check out the shops in a town they travel to). Now, if 
they totally go out of the scenario AND off of my sub-flooring, hey --
I'll wing it. I don't have a problem with coming up with stuff on the fly,
it's just that I could never be in or run a game where practically every
thing is that way (okay, I can't really say that cuz I've tried neither, 
but I don't THINK I could play in or run that kind of game).

Okay, 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K
From: pcorless@cisco.com (Peter Corless)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GMs: historical politics
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:24:00 GMT
Reply-To: pcorless@cisco.com (Peter Corless)
Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an
	      individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily
	      reflect those of the company.

I like historical roleplaying. I ran a Justice Inc. game called "The Lions
of Africa", which was about the Italian invasion of Ethiopia in 1936.

What I usually do is keep the amount of political mayhem to a limited
number of factions, and let the players decide on which side they'd like
to take part.

In "Lions of Africa", however, the Italian Fascists were definitely the
"bad guys." However, it took a lot of cajoling, and a lot of "boo-hooing"
from a fair maiden in distress to get all of the players to finally
take up with Haile Selassie's side.

One of the most difficult things with political roleplaying is that
very few people want to be card-carrying members of any entity. Most
roleplayers want their characters free of ties, able to wander from
one situation to another, and placing them all on the same approximate
level of seniority. This is the antithesis of politics-as-usual, where
individuals are categorized by their associations and ranked according
to their influence and position.

I have always wanted to run a good political campaign (roleplaying, that is,
not in real-life!). I'm looking at Pendragon, where the fuedal system and
the prestige-ranking of Glory makes for a natural way to incorporate politics
into the campaign.
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Amber in other systems (was Re: Diceless or Senseless?)
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:37:42 GMT
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu's message of 14 Aug 92 20:22:05 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> "A" == Axly <dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:

A> Actually, there are restrictive things about Amber. It doesn't
A> matter how good the best guy in the world is in GURPS, or SRUN, or
A> ADD. You can always improve a skill, even if it's glacially slow. In
A> Amber, you are sort of stuck with your initial bid. 

No, no, no. You can *always* try to improve your attributes. You just tell
the GM that a) you want to spend Good Stuff to do so, and b) whether or not
you're willing to take Bad Stuff to get it.

A> You can create any character you want in GURPS or HERO, and powers
A> are only limited by your imagination there. If a GM is creative enough,
A> you could do AMBER with either system.  

Both HERO and GURPS mechanics break down at the extremes of god-like
characters; either the mechnics don't work at all or they begin to look
like super heroes. Let's face it, a "generic" younger Amberite, with Amber
level attributes, Pattern Imprint, and maybe 100 to 200 years worth of
life's experiences is going to be around 400 points in HERO (don't ask me
about GURPS--I don't know it that well), with maybe a third of that in
Characteristics; the elder Amberites (princes and sisters) are pushing
something like 1000+ points.

This isn't an attack on either; but you should use whatever system fits
what you're trying to simulate. For Amber, the fewer mechanics the better.

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: rburr@shlump.nac.dec.com (Rod Burr)
Subject: HORDES OF THE THINGS (Re: Strategic Fantasy Battle Simulator)
Keywords: Strategy, Fantasy
Reply-To: rburr@shlump.nac.dec.com (Rod Burr)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:04:46 GMT


You might want to look at WRG's HORDES OF THE THINGS. This is the fantasy version of the DE BELLLIS ANTIQUITATIS rules which use 12 element/stand armies
and give tactical battles that can normally be resolved in about half an hour. 
The booklet also includes simple campaign rules.

						Rod Burr
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:35:36 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy

In article <1992Aug22.114813.16961@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>	How the hell am I supposed to enjoy solving a
>puzzle if I know that there really isn't a puzzle?

That's valid for you.  I don't think anyone is going to tell you
that you are wrong about *your* enjoyment of improv.  I'm sure
not.

However, people will get rather annoyed when you tell them that
they can't be enjoying improv.  Our memories tell us differently,
you see.  We are having fun.  Would you have me run my scenarios
in such a way as to make both me and my players unhappy, but
according to someone else's idea of fair?

Or:  we don't tell you that you're doing it wrong.  Why do you
feel such an urge to tell us we're screwing it all up?

Please note the followup-to.

Bryant
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Ambushes (was Re: Gurps Supers is still broken)
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:55:29 GMT

dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) writes:
>|The purpose of the system is to support the genre. 
>
>I am not going to dictate to my players how they have to roleplay their 
>characters.  I am not going to tell them what they can and can't do based on
>whether or not it's "genre".  

	Obviously if neither you nor any of your players enjoy the genre 
conventions, then you are perfectly correct in not following them - and 
playing a 'realistic supers' game rather than a 'comic book' game. I agree 
completely that the purpose of the system is not neccessarily to support 
the genre, but rather to provide a fun game. 

	OTOH, there is nothing wrong with 'genre' games for those who 
enjoy them, and I do not consider the restrictions on player actions to 
keep 'in genre' any different from the restrictions on player actions to 
stay realistic. I.E.
P1: "The charging buffalo won't reach me for 6 seconds. I'll reload my rifle 
     on the first three turns, then take a turn to aim for its eye."
GM: "That's unrealistic. Make a Fright Check." 

P2: "I shoot the demon-possessed innocent while he's down."
GM: "That's out of genre. Make a Will roll." 

>
>If I make the villains act like idiots so they
>can stay in "genre" then what I've got isn't a supers campaign, it's a
>parody.  Even the original poster said that his style was to have the
>villains act in as intelligent a manner as possible, which is certainly not
>"genre". 

	This is a good reason to institute genre conventions (if you want 
them) into the *rules* rather than enforcing them on how people act. That 
is why I like Ninja Hero's "-1 OCV penalty per additional attacker" much 
better than GURPS Martial Arts "Villians always attack one at a time". In 
NH, the villians are doing the most intelligent thing in splitting up and 
pairing off. In GURPS MA, they are acting incredibly stupid. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down