HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ddavis@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Donald Davis)
Subject: More on the screwing of the Badgers...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:05:56 GMT

In article <76430004@col.hp.com> scottb@col.hp.com (Scott Brunton) writes:
>	Hmmm, the papers yesterday said that the NCAA was investigating the
>conduct of the Wisconsin players w.r.t. their abuse of the referee at the
>end of the game.  Apparently, the NCAA is considering some degree of
>suspensions.  This type of conduct is typical of players (and coaches too)
>who feel that it is their right to berate the officials.  I would be the
>first to say that mistakes do happen.  But I would strongly contend that
>any errors that do occur are premeditated.  I believe that any official
>working at that level of college hockey can and must be objective to the
>teams and the play.

	Scott: the level of outrage of the members of the normally classy
Wisconsin team should give you some idea that perhaps they felt that the
FIVE two-man disadvantages called against them influenced the outcome.
Tell me, Scott, when was the last time *you* saw 5 5-on-3's called against
one team???  I *never* suggested that the referees deliberately screwed the
Badgers, but those bad calls cost the Badgers an NCAA championship!!
I should note that my mail is running 5:1 in favor of my original premise,
with the dissenting mail being largely comprised of LSSU partisans!!

	[Three paragraphs of Scott being an apologist for hockey referees
in general deleted with extreme predjudice]

	Scott:

	1.) Have the NCAA hockey refs hired you as their spokesman?
	2.) Did you even *see* the hockey game in question?
	3.) I'll ask you again, when was the last time you saw five, count
	'em, five 2-man disadvantages against one team???? If you think
	that that does not translate into AT LEAST one goal, you are nutty,
	my friend!!

>	Officiating in not perfect.  But I refuse to believe that it is
>corrupt.

	Let's get it straight.  Officiating general leaves much to be
desired; the officiating Saturday night was the worst I've seen since a
Saturday night in 1974 when USHL officials took 5 (there's that number
again) goals away from the Milwaukee Admirials in a game against the Sioux
City Musketeers.  Finally, no one ever said these refs were dishonest, just
incompetent!!!

>P.S.	The language that was used by the poster of this original flurry
>	was unnecessarily crude.  It seems clear that the posters point
>	could be made without such language.  Perhaps a misconduct would
>	be in order?

	Well, Scott, it's easy to stay calm when you don't care who wins,
eh??? :)  Put I'll accept your judgement, and skate into the penalty box.
But only for two minutes!!!!

						-- YYZ

-- 
Donald C. Davis (alias YYZ)	My hat is off to Illinois Governor Jim Edgar
ddavis@casbah.acns.nwu.edu	for balancing the state budget *without*
				raising income taxes or cutting education!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: The Shoes!  It had to be...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 06:12:42 GMT

In article <POPOVICH.92Apr5172050@morningside.cs.columbia.edu> popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich) writes:
>A while back, Anna Matyas made a post about a new line of "Kevin Stevens
>athletic shoes".  The idea was that when you put them on, you lost your
>ability to speak English, just like Kevin in nearly every interview to
>date.  Well, since there's nothing better to do with my time hockey-wise
>right now, I'd like to resurrect that thread with some new lines we
>thought up while Anna was in New York a little while back.
>
>Jay Caufield shoes:  You can't walk around in them without taking a swing
>		     at somebody -- and missing!
>Mario Lemieux shoes: When you bend over to tie them, you hurt your back.
>Bob Probert shoes:   If you wear them to Canada, you can't come back.
>
>And of course, in the spirit of the hockey strike, I've got to add:
>
>Bill Wirtz shoes:    These would have to be something like ill-fitting
>		     penny loafers, so we could call them "penny pinchers"
>		     after dear old Bill.  Or perhaps putting them on gives
>		     you an irresistable urge to drive around drunk...

Some more:

Mike Peluso shoes:	You wear them, and they force you go to the penalty
			box.
Link Gaetz shoes:	A less powerful version of Mike Peluso shoes, but can
			force you to sit in a car with a drunk driver if you
			resist the urge to go to the penalty box.
Vincent Riendeau shoes:	Wear them, and you can't resist yelling out things that
			offend tough guys, who would then come punch you in
			the face.

And, my favorite (from last playoffs...  Yes, I am having hockey withdraw as
well...)

Craig Muni shoes:	Wear them, and you will begin throwing dirty checks
			on the opponent, but intrinsic invisibility allows you
			to be not seen by the refs.

===============================================================================
"Opera Night at the Cow Palace: The Barber of San Jose."
GO LOS ANGELES KINGS!  Wayne Gretzky for Ross and Hart!
GO SAN JOSE SHARKS!  Pat Falloon for Calder!  Jeff Hackett for Vezina!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: DO YOU NEED THAT HOCKEY FIX?
Keywords: playoffs, strike, withdrawal, etc......n
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:24:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsh.1992Apr6.172433.12759
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr6.143051.22935@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.210134.5528@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, davidw@vista.atmos.uiuc.edu (David Wojtowicz) writes:
> > In article <1992Apr3.163653.16985@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse) writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >Due to the NHL strike, I have come up with the idea to hold our own playoff
> > >games in around the NHL cities by use of the SEGA GENESIS NHL HOCKEY GAME.
> > >Yes,for those who need that NHL fix, games could be held around NHL cities.
> > >We could use the team contacts to represent each team and hold our own playoffs.
> > >Oh what the hell...why don't you all come over to my house and we'll hold them
> > >there.I can even get in touch with a play by play announcer and a color man
> > >to do the games......
> > Do you suppose we should invite SCA?  They should be desperate by now.
> Yeah. I was getting tired of seeing championship figure skating the past week.
> Now, we have to deal with college baseball every night on a tape delay....

My cable company just sent me a nice letter telling me that possibly as soon
as May 1 they are going to start offering SCA as part of a new "Extended
Satellite Service" which includes a few other channels as well. Guess I'll
get to watch the playoffs this year after all! Guess that SCA contract
WASN'T such a bad idea!

what a depressing day (sigh)

pete clark jr.
att!hos1cad!seth
From: am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anna Matyas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: So long, Stanley Cup playoffs
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:13:30 GMT
Organization: H&SS Dean's Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


From Lori:
>It seems to me that now the strike has come down to a battle of wills.  It 
>seems to have gone beyond the issues, and has come down to nothing more than
>"us vs. them".  The hard ass attitude taken by both sides has only made things
>worse.
> 

I've been thinking along the same lines as Lori.  She also mentioned that
negotiations should have been happening all season and I wholeheartedly
agree.  My understanding is the same -- the owners kept putting off the
talks.

Some other things I'm royally PO'd about:

*First, let me say that I had no ill feelings whatsover toward the
 players for doing this -- initially.  I've changed in that respect.
*Granted, from what we know, the owners refused to talk all season.
 The players decided to strike at the time when the owners could
 make the most money (and the players the least amount of money.
 Playoffs do not make the players rich).  I can understand that the
 players felt they had to hit the owners where it hurts the most.
 But I'm also PO'd that the players have made their money for the
 season.  I think I'd respect them a little more if they had waited
 until the beginning of next season, when they would have gone without
 their paychecks.
*As a paying customer, I will feel very cheated if there are no
 playoffs.  The playoffs are the culmination of the entire season --
 not merely another set of games.  Even though we'll get refunds,
 I still feel cheated.  We're paying for a product and not getting
 our due.  It's like cutting a 26-mile marathon off at mile 23.
*Jim disagrees with me but I think Baldwin was serious when he said
 he'd bring in replacement players.  Lori says to count her out; she's
 not paying for that.  I don't want to pay for that either but I'm also
 concerned about forfeiting my right to buy season tickets -- or perhaps
 getting shifted to another section and I don't want that to happen.
 If I lived in a city where attendance was low I wouldn't worry.  But
 Penguin tickets are a hot item right now.  I don't want what might
 happen early next season to affect my current status.

My bone of contention, I guess, is not with the players' original
issues but with the way they have gone about it.  Maybe they thought
the owners would panic at the prospect of losing playoff money and
would cave in immediately.  Well, there's still time for resolution
and I've been optimistic through these first 9 or so days and I
continue to be.  If I'm going to be PO'd about something I'd rather it
be about a Larry Murphy boneheaded play than this crap!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Buying the Cup (was Re: Dear Sherri)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:30:26 GMT

In article <28370028@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> cadams@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Adams) writes:
>Cup.  The development cycle for an NHL team is several years.  The
>development cycle for baseball is probably shorter. 

Thanks to free agency.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com


From: scottb@col.hp.com (Scott Brunton)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:52:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Officiating matters (was Re: Wisconsin got screwed!!!)
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey

	Hmmm, the papers yesterday said that the NCAA was investigating the
conduct of the Wisconsin players w.r.t. their abuse of the referee at the
end of the game.  Apparently, the NCAA is considering some degree of
suspensions.  This type of conduct is typical of players (and coaches too)
who feel that it is their right to berate the officials.  I would be the
first to say that mistakes do happen.  But I would strongly contend that
any errors that do occur are premeditated.  I believe that any official
working at that level of college hockey can and must be objective to the
teams and the play.

	Were all the calls absolutely correct ... probably not, but more than
the specific infraction enters into the calling of a penalty.  To name a few,
the location of the infraction (neutral zone or attacking zone), the pace
and flow of the game *at that particular time*, the cummulative attitude
and behaviour of the player up until then (ie. has the player been warned
verbally earlier or has the player been deep in the gray zone several times).

	Above all, it should be pointed out that the referee (and linesman
for that matter) occupy one point on the ice at any one time.  As such, what
is seen (ie. interpreted) and what is *not* seen depends very much on where
the official is.  Some will be missed and some errors will be made.

	I think that it would be worth the viewers time to pay careful
attention to the calls that are made correctly that were, at the very least,
difficult for the viewer to see from their one point in front of the TV.

	Officiating in not perfect.  But I refuse to believe that it is
corrupt.

P.S.	The language that was used by the poster of this original flurry
	was unnecessarily crude.  It seems clear that the posters point
	could be made without such language.  Perhaps a misconduct would
	be in order?
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:21:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Apr9.172154.6871
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Apr9.154018.21389@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner) writes:
>But now, the players association has gone too far.  First, they pull out
>this new issue late last week (card money).

The owners brought up the card issue.

>  Fine.  'We own our faces.' 
>were comments that were printed in the local paper (I believe that they
>were attributed to Goodenow and to Andy Moog.).  Fine.  But who owns the
>rights to the team names that appear on those cards?  How about the rights
>to the symbols on the uniforms, and in fact the uniforms themselves?  That's
>the owners' property.

My understanding of what the players want is that the players association
has an agreement with the card company for the right to use likenesses of
the players, and the owners have a agreement with the card company for the
right to use the logos and uniforms.  This is how things work with baseball
cards, for example.

>I don't think they deserve all of it.  Even so, the owners (the way things
>were reported here in Winnipeg) agreed to give the players the money, and
>Goodenow comes out three hours later and says that it's not good enough?

It wasn't exactly what they wanted.  The owners agreed to "sub-license" the
money to the players, while the players insist that they own their own
likenesses.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: pkemp@byron.u.washington.edu (Paul Kemp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Question
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:17:33 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


Well, since there is no hockey to watch, here's a trivia question that I've
been thinking about for a while...

What family has scored the most professional hockey (WHL counts) goals?

the Hulls?  the Howes?  the Sutters?  the Richards?

I don't know the answer...any guesses?
From: rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Angelo Pleshar)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: A clear rink?
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:45:10 GMT
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>I remember seeing last year's NCAA phinal, and I noticed the bottom part
>of the boards were clear too!  What rink was this?  Also, is this unique
>to this rink?  I didn't think these types of rinks were allowed, because
>it would be hard to see the puck.

This is the St. Paul Civic Center in St. Paul, Minnesota. The boards are
made of plexiglas. It seems to work out fine.
Ralph
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: Tales from the Crypt
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:57:42 GMT


In the current spirit of owner-bashing, I thought I'd share this tidbit
conerning the late but certainly not lamented ex-owner of the Leafs,
Harold Ballard:

[From today's Globe and Mail]

If the earth moves, it could be Harold Ballard turning over in his grave.
Years ago, a [pretty ritzy] Toronto women's club, 21 McGill, found itself
bankrupt from costs related to renovations needed because of a fire.  To
bail out the club, 1600 women put up $1500 each to raise the $2.4 million
that was required to defeat a competing bid from Ballard, the Maple Leaf
owner, who promised to install a Playboy Bunny club in the downtown Toronto
building and "throw the old broads out".

Today, the McGill Club is doing well, at least better than Ballard, one one
frequent habitue' is Ballard's former companion Yolanda Ballard [a
gold-digging sycophant if ever there was one], who receives more than
$75,000 anually from Ballard's estate.

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 15:10:54 IST
From: <X68305@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject:    NHL playoff


Hi!
   I am a hockey fan from Israel. There isn'tmuch hockey here, nor
anyone give it attention in sport papers etc. All info i gather is from
cables TV. (about 2 games per week, with a brief overview)
   I understand that the playoff is soon to begin and i even don't know
who plays against who , or whos the playoff system works (like NBA? like NFL?)
any information will be appreciate.
BTW: Israel do have a Hockey team. We participate in some games in SA
not long ago and even had one win :-)
guess the 1996 Olympics final will be Israel - ???? (:-)))))))


             Gadi Eidelheit
eidlheit@bimacs.biu.ac.il
or x68305@barilvm
From: John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca (John Carson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: TEAMS AND THEIR LOSSES or GAINS
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:45:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.11324
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada


Based on local media could all those that live close to a NHL TEAM could send
me e-mail as to what has been annouced to you as to the losses for your local
NHL TEAM.

I'll start with         VANCOUVER      approx. 3 millions this year

SEND TO: John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca

John
 
--
***********************************************************************
* D.John Carson    J & H Concepts   a29@mindlink.UUCP   604-589-5118  *
*                                    John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca        *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: spiegel@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel)
Subject: Michigan Minnesota HS Playoffs
Keywords: Michigan Minnesota High School Playoffs 
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 17:31:22 GMT



	Does anybody know what happened in this year's Michigan and

	Minnesota high school hockey playoffs ? ?


	Please post if you know.



 _______________________________________________________________________________
 _______________________________________________________________________________
 |                                                       ____                  |
 |    Mark Spiegel                                         -_ --__             |
 |                                                           \    --_          |
 |  Aerothermodynamics            G O    S H A R K S ! ! !    \      -_        |
 |    & Fluid Mechanics                                       |        \       |
 |                                                 __________ /         \_____ |
 |                                              ___________ /            \_____|
 |   spiegel@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com    __________________________________|
 |_____________________________________________________________________________/
/_____________________________________________________________________________/
From: richp@gotcha.Sun.COM (Rich Piziali - Sun SVN SE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: The upcoming STRIKE.
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:36:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gotcha.west.sun.com

In article <2086@cronos.metaphor.com> rush@mnementh.metaphor.com (Ed Rush) writes:
>In article <ARBOGASTW.34@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:
>>
>>Sharks ... got one of the world's hottest graphic artists to design 
>>and develop their logo and image, they held focus groups to determine colors 
>>and what types of mercahndise people wanted, etc, etc, etc.  
>
>He wasn't one of the world's hottest graphic artists then -- just a good
>local guy.  He is one of the hottest now, I suspect!
>

I was talking to a guy in a local record store the other day and it turned out
he was Terry Smith the designer of the Shark's logo.  I was pretty impressed
but he played it down like it was no big deal and neither was he.  He said even
he was impressed with the phenomenal success of the logo.  He also said the
NHL was working with him for some future projects also.  BTW, he gets no 
royalties for the logo.  It was a one time fee.  Bummer, he could have got some
serious cash!!  He is a real nice guy, and a great designer...

Cheers,

Rich
From: as16@quads.uchicago.edu (adam  shah)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: I Was Once A Big Fan
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:15:56 GMT
Reply-To: as16@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


I know that it is probably boring to lodge another complaint against the 
NHL management, but they really have no idea how many fans they are 
actually losing because of their tv contracts.

I used to watch the Rangers every night that they were on Ch 9 in NY.
When the games moved to MSG I used to listen to the radio broadcasts of 
the games.  As I grew older though, the Ch 9 broadcasts grew fewer and I
lost interest in NHL hockey as a whole since I only had the resources to see
a couple of games a year.  Well we finally got cable.  I got my Rangers on
basic and for a while we even had Devils and Isles on SC.  I became a 
hockey junky.  Unfortunately, SC went beyond our means so I lost my chance
to see playoff hockey.  Then I went away to the SouthSide of Chicago
and lost access to cable altogether...

Now I can only see hockey on MSG over winter and spring breaks.  Personalities
like Tie Domi and awesome players like Messier and co. are just names in 
box scores.  I can't even see Roenick play except maybe twice a year at 
$15 a pop.  I see myself losing touch with NHL hockey.  

Maybe I'll regain my enthusiasm.  But who knows.  All I do know is that it
is bad business for the NHL.


-- 
adam
(aka as16@midway.uchicago.edu aka mercutio) telephone (312) 702-2896
I would give my real address but who would write?
(I guess I do believe in signature files after all)
From: gak@gakbox.Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: How Profitable is the NHL?
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:29:04 GMT
Reply-To: gak@gakbox.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gakbox.corp.sun.com

In article 28370018@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM, cadams@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Adams) writes:
>I saw somewhere in these
>newsgroup that the owners were claiming a $30 million loss this year
>while the union claimed there would actually be a profit of $24 million.

Regardless of the figures, I'm a bit confused on what they really
mean.  Do they mean that the total profit for all 22 teams was $24
million, or do they mean that the NHL's profit as a business separate
from the teams was $24 million?  Is there a difference?

thx
gak

---
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| Affix the screen to your nipple
Internet:       gak@Corp.Sun.COM |----GO----| instead of your elbow.
ATTMAIL:         ...!attmail!gak |---SHARX--|                    - CR Saikley
Cow Palace: Sec 107 Row F Seat 9 |----------| 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Strike Over! - At least to Norm Green
Summary: Can Ziegler
Keywords: strike over ziegler sucks
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:20:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

ESPN reported at 10:00 MST that Norm Green, owner of the Minnesota North
Stars, says an agreement has been reached.  OH JOY!  Can't wait to see
the Ostrom singers sing the anthem!


*******************************************************************************
*  Mike Burger                    *  Sometimes you feel like a Tugnutt,       *
*  mmb@lamar.colostate.edu        *  sometimes you don't.                     *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey