HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jain@spectra.com (Sadhana Jain)
Subject: test
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Distribution: spectra
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 18:18:56 GMT

This is a test, please ignore
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Date: 8 Oct 1992 20:28:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 1b20t4INN2qs@uwm.edu, byoung@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Brian P Young) writes:
>I do have a list of all requirements for shodan in Budokan, which I believe
>is the school Takeda Tokimune set up.  It doesn't include the higher, more
>complete techniques or kata's and is prettry standard fair.  The complete
>system has, inluding secretscrolls, has 2,884 techniques.

I'm aware of the great number of techniques. However, this really bridges
systems; ie. school of naginate, yori, daito, etc. I'm interested in
the jujutsu part of the system.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu (meaning of _Aiki_)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:22:19 GMT

>>>>> On 6 OCT 92 15:13:38    , stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) said:

Todd> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes...

>	Aiki Jutsu is the art of developing and applying aiki.  The closest
>	analog I can think of is Chi Kung, and perhaps a bit of Tai Chi.

[snip]

Todd> This is a tricky language translation issue, but Aiki is a
Todd> fairly generic term, I believe, not specifically related to
Todd> vital force or internal energy as implied by reference to
Todd> Qigong.  

Todd> If you look at the old technical syllabus of the Kito-Ryu and
Todd> other early Jujutsu schools, they aren't all that distinct from
Todd> what is known as Aikijutsu, in many ways.  Some just have more
Todd> emphasis on the subtler points, like breath control, postural
Todd> skills, minimum contact throws, nerve techniques.  Separating
Todd> these out as distinct 'Aiki' is a modern development though, I
Todd> think.  Maybe I'm all wet, though ... :-)

I heard an instructor say once that "Aiki-jutsu" was a term rarely
used until after Aikido became popular.  Before Aikido, the "aiki"
aspects of Aikijutsu were there, but not emphasized.  It was only
after Aikido became famous, or so he said, that Aikijutsu
practitioners began to push the "Aiki" aspects.

Of course, this was an aikidoka who said this, so he is quite biased.
I know nothing about it personally, and don't wish to put this forward
as the "truth".  Do any of our historians on this group know more?
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:45:12 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1992Oct13.122601.2128@srg.srg.af.mil>, schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
|> In article <MHIRSCH.92Oct12105933@atomic.princeton.edu> mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) writes:
|> >In fact, my sources tell me that they rarely eat qi's in China,
|> >contradicting Stephen's original statement.
|> 
|> 	In fact, Chinese cultivate their own qi's with meditation. It tends to
|> accumulate in the general area of your navel. When you have accumlated enough
|> qi's, you will be extremely powerful.
|> 	To eat your qi's is purely external, and only suitable for people who
|> need to use their qi's in the near future.

Qi's has a very strong effect on my Chinese friends from college.  The
smell of qi's or even mentioning the word makes them nauseated.  They
would never let it accumulate near their navels.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: juola@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (Patrick Juola)
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:25:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.223959.1@stsci.edu> jwalters@stsci.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct06.183135.3237@srg.srg.af.mil>, schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>> 
>> 	Qi (the correct japanese spelling) is not something which you throw
>
>Gee, and I thought the Japanese used kanji.  :-)
>

That's okay, the "official" Hepburn transliteration system for Japanese
doesn't use Q's anyway.  The transliteration is "ki".

Which is all irrelevant, since Tai Chi is a Chinese art, and Chinese
has more transliteration systems than I care to count.  What is
the name of the capital, anyway?  Peking, Peiping, or Beijing?

	- kitten
From: rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Tse-Woon Paw)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Under Siege
Date: 12 Oct 1992 05:38:53 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

In article <BvzA0x.4r8@news.iastate.edu> twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Has anyone seen Seagal's new movie Under Siege?  IMHO t is the best one 
>he has done.  He doesn't end up taking out everyone by himself, someone else
>actually does some killing.  It seemed like they tried to lighten up his
>character a little bit.
>
>
>stiletto

I just saw it today and I've gotta agree.  It's his best.  I was also
impressed by how they handled the capture of the ship.  It was more
believable than most other movies that tried something like this.
-- 
Richard Tse-Woon Paw            Within each man is the most powerful weapon
rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu                  on Earth.  ---  The human mind
rpaw@ucsee.berkeley.edu          
Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu
From: stace@pisa27.austin.ibm.com (Stacey Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Ninja Tabi
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:33:46 GMT
Reply-To: saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu
Organization: Somerset Design Center, IBM Austin, TX

When I first heard about/saw tabi in some martial arts magazine, I think
I was told or maybe I read that one of their purposes was to climb
ropes. Basically, if the rope had knots in it, you could just walk right
up the rope by putting the rope between the two (reinforced, hopefully)
first toes and stepping on the knots. Is that total crap, or has it just
not been mentioned yet?

===============================================================================
"The question is not does love exist,               Stace
 but when she leaves, where she goes"   saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu
                  - David Lee Roth
From: gordonb@ssd.kodak.com (Gordon J. Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.military,rec.misc
Subject: Location of CWH
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:47:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Oct15.014714.23845
Distribution: na
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Originator: gordonb@thepond

My wife and I will be passing by/through Hamilton, Ontario (Canada,
for the geographically impaired :-)) driving between Rochester NY and
Toronto this weekend, and we'd like to try and get to the Canadian
Warplane Heritage museum.  Would anyone who can supply directions please
post or email to bennett@sneaks.kodak.com?  Thanks in advance.

Gordon Bennett
-- 
A second Flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere,
Or a cataclysmic earthquake I'd accept with some despair.
But no, You sent us Congress!  Good God, Sir, was that fair? 
                                                - John Adams, _1776_
From: woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: Re: Jammin'
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:29:14 GMT
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO

In article <1bklpkINNlec@uwm.edu> sarty@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Jay A. DeSart) writes:
>In article <71288@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6746a@prism.gatech.EDU (Slapman de Funk) writes:
>>
>>    I play bass.
>>
>
>You might try posting this to rec.outdoors.fishing. 

Not really necessary. After all, he already sent it to the entire *&^$! world.
I'm sure there is someone over in Europe just dying to get on an airplane
to Atlanta to do some jammin'

--Greg
From: gt6746a@prism.gatech.EDU (Slapman de Funk)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: Jammin'
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:14:24 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


     I am looking to jam with some people.  I play bass.  I've
been playing for a while now.  I want to either start a new band.
or play in an existing one or for that matter, just jam with some 
people.  If anyone is interested, e-mail me.  

Newsgroups: rec.misc,general
From: ramsey@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Brenda Ramsey)
Subject: RC Auto Racing
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 19:50:13 GMT

The Greatest Spectacle in RC Racing

For the fifth year in a row, October 14-18th 1992 will bring 280
racers and 1,000's of spectators to gather at the Olympic Velodrome
which is located at the corner of Victoria and Avalon in the City of
Carson.

The focus of this group of International Racers will be the annual
running of the R/C ThunderDrome.  1/10th scale versions of NASCAR
Stock Cars will speed around the 333 meter track at speeds in excess
of 75mph.

Celebrities, such as Joe Benson from KLOS, Dan Gurney's All American
Racing Team's #98 Toyota GTP car, the Goodyear Blimp, and a Fun packed
midway will make this unique race a fun family attraction.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 15, 1992
Specially prepared race cars will be provided for the media if they
would like to try their hand at racing.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1992
The first day of Qualifying starts at 11:00am and continues until
night fall.  The Goodyear Blimp will fly over and welcome the
racers.

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1992 
Qualifying continues, and the Peterson Publishing Staff will have 
a special race featuring editors of Motor Trend, Hot Rod, Circle 
Track, Car Craft, and more race for the Gold!

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 18, 1992
Opening ceremonies, 10:00.  The main events start with the Goodyear
Blimp overhead with attending press for aerial photo opportunity
for the attending press.

For further information, and credentials please contact:

Dan Moynihan	818/700-6912 Office
		818/700-2940 FAX
-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
..!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
From: ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl (A.P.J. Ouwendijk)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: Re: Jammin'
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:54:08 GMT
Organization: PTT Telecom b.v. The Netherlands

In article <1992Oct15.222914.2017@claven.ucar.edu>, woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) writes:
|> In article <1bklpkINNlec@uwm.edu> sarty@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Jay A. DeSart) writes:
|> >In article <71288@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6746a@prism.gatech.EDU (Slapman de Funk) writes:
|> >>
|> >>    I play bass.
|> >>
|> >
|> >You might try posting this to rec.outdoors.fishing. 
|> 
|> Not really necessary. After all, he already sent it to the entire *&^$! world.
|> I'm sure there is someone over in Europe just dying to get on an airplane
|> to Atlanta to do some jammin'
|> 
|> --Greg

Maybe *he* is just dying to get out of the US. ;-)

-- 
        Anthon Ouwendijk               E-Mail: ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl
   __o  PTT Telecom b.v.  o__          Voice:  +31 70 3434572
 _`\<,  's-Gravenhage     ,>/'_
(_)/(_) The Netherlands  (_)\(_)       #include    <std/disclaimer.h>
From: judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: U2 Concert Tickets
Date: 8 Oct 92 04:32:11 GMT

I have four tickets for the U2 concert on October 30 in Los Angeles.  They
are really good seats: center stage, field.  I am asking $95.00 for each
ticket.  If you are interested, please E-mail me.  Thanks.


--
"I drank what?" -- Socrates

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Xref: sparky rec.misc:254 rec.folk-dancing:1862
From: sarty@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Jay A. DeSart)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: Re: Jammin'
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:54:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1bklpkINNlec
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

In article <71288@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6746a@prism.gatech.EDU (Slapman de Funk) writes:
>
>    I play bass.
>

You might try posting this to rec.outdoors.fishing.  I think you could get a
pretty good thread going about the relative merits of say bass v. walleye w/r/t
fight, or even a discussion about proper drag settings.  I too play bass and
find their fight quite fun particularly if you are fishing near heavy cover.

Fish On!
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Subject: Re: Quail in NW Iowa?
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:44:50 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

mikef@bvc.edu writes:

>Had a person from the far reaches of NW Iowa tell me that he sees and
>hunts quail.  I have never seen quail this far north.  I'm guessing
>that this person doesn't know the difference between quail and the
>emerging hungarian partridge, but if I'm wrong, please tell me so.

Bobwhite quail range as far north as Southern Minnesota.  When I was
growing up on a farm in southeastern Iowa, the calls of the bobwhites
were a very familiar sound.

Todd++;

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Subject: Re: Sunday Hunting blue law
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:14:52 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Oct7.094235.2610@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
>From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
>Subject: Sunday Hunting blue law
>Date: 7 Oct 92 09:42:35 CDT
>I've seen the thread regarding prohibitions on Sunday hunting, and
>how there were some fellows that didn't believe they still existed.
>Believe me, they do,  In Pennsylvania and Ohio, the two states I hunt
>the most, you can't hunt Sundays (there are some variances to this,
>though - In Ohio, I think you can hunt waterfowl on Sundays.
>
>I've written to the DNR several times trying to get somebody to
>change the law so we can bowhunt on Sunday, but so far no luck.
>
>

Isn't it also a matter of custom and etiquette?  A number of
landowners hold fast to the "No hunting, Sunday's" principle -- always
found it a good thing to ask about first.  And even if they don't
raise the subject, taking the initiative yourself works to your
advantage no matter what they happen to say -- it's just a matter of
common courtesy when a guest on someone's property.  On a personal
note, on a long hunt a Sunday break suits me fine -- bit of R&R you
might say!

Cheers,
Keith


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: Bret.Ketchum@GANDALF.NETWORK.COM
Subject: Birdguns
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:39:40 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Mika Matti Jalava writes:
> That depends on the shells, too. And you can set the recoil spring (or
> the rings at the end of it) in two positions, which also affects the
> speed of the action.

	I wasn't aware those rings were for recoil. I was told they were
adjustments for burn speed/grain weight in the shot shells you are using.
Being gas powered that makes sense. The less gas produced the less reliable
the gun acts when ejecting and autoloading shells.

	When you say 28 and 36 gram hunting shells what exactly do you
mean? Does that have something to do with the load?

	Bret


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski)
Subject: Re: Non-hunter safety in woods?
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:44:28 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Remember, NEVER ASSUME!  Because you can make an
                ASS      out of
                   U     and
                    ME!   :-)

Seriously, it's a shame that you have to go through with all the
precautions, it's a sad statement about hunters.  ALWAYS IDENTIFY YOUR
TARGET!!!!  A problem with the reflectors (in particular
glow-in-the-dark stuff), in the Army we have what are called "cat's
eyes," a band that goes around our helmet with two glow-in-the-dark
strips, so that you can see the person in front of you while on
patrol.  Back in late November '87 a soldier was shot and killed by a
poacher with a 20ga slug who mistook the "cat's eyes" for those of a
deer.  The culprit was eventually aprehended, I was out before he went
to court so I don't know what happened.  All the members of the squad
wished they had live ammo at the time.  Maybe get one of those
"survival" strobe lights, they're very visible, unfortunately there's
probably some idiot out there that could still shoot at you, even with
all these precautions.  Take care!

Wesley J. Bielinski                    | "I love my country,
SGT, USAR       U53734@uicvm.uic.edu   |   it's my government I fear!"
12th Special Forces Group (Airborne)   |
From: keith@clodii.columbiasc.NCR.COM (Keith Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: 30-30 wanted !!
Keywords: rifle wanted
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:45:20 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Oct6.084458.28575@doug.cae.wisc.edu> mikego@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Gerald Goodwin) writes:
>
>	Yes I'm looking for a rifle for my 16 yr old son.  I would like to 
>	buy a side eject 30-30 either Winchester or Marlin.
>	I am willing to pay $75.00.

Unless I am mistaken, the Winchester is top eject. Right?   Most of the
used 30-30's I see go for around $150 without scope. (Add about $40 if   
it has a scope).  You probably want a Marlin, but I honestly don't  
think you will find a used one for a mere $75 dollars.


>
>	please call mike @ w 503-627-6624    
>
>	Thanks!!
>   
 
Sorry, I don't own one. I shoot with .270cal.

Keith

-- 
| Keith M. Boyd  (NCR MCPD Cola.) | Nothing could be finer than huntin' and  |
| 3325 Platt Springs Rd.          |    and fishin' in South Carolina! -Me-   | 
| West Cola., S.C. 29170 |   GO BRAVES!!     | keith.boyd@columbiasc.NCR.COM |
| Vp: 803-791-6419 or 6455    | From uunet: uunet!ncrcom!ncrcae!clodii!keith |
From: richa@grizzly.cna.tek.com (Rich Amber)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Mt. Lions DO STALK humans!
Summary: and play games too.
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:04:05 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


In 1973, when I lived in Tucson, AZ,  I bought a cougar tag,
grabbed my old trusty .30-30, and headed up the mountain where
I  knew there were a couple big cats. I found  tracks early that morning
and was following this cat all over the place. After a couple hours,
I noticed I was now crossing my own trail again. This cat obviously
knew I was there and was trying to confuse me (it's working).

Another hour of sorting out fresh tracks and old tracks, then back-
tracking a bit to catch the right trail and I started to wonder just
who was tracking whom. Now, I'm  not a gazelle, so I figure if the
cat was really stalking me, he could have had my butt by now.
So what was going on? A few more turns and circles and I lost him in
slick rocks. I decided to sit a spell and cogitate on where he might be.

As I sat there admiring the beautiful scenery, I looked further up the
mountain and noticed the cougar lounging on a ledge about 50-60 feet
>from me. That silly cat was lying there licking his front paw and
watching me. Here I was, stalking him with intent to kill, and he
was playing a game with me. I  knew I could blow him away from this
distance, then I  began to wonder which of us was the more civilized.
I tipped my hat to the cat, tore up my cougar tag, and went home.
I swear he was smiling as I left the mountain that day.

Rich Amber
(it's too early for my .sig to be out of bed yet)
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: O/U vs Semi-Auto for hunting birds.
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:58:19 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Oct8.110314.9353@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
   johanneg@cs.rpi.edu (Gummi Johannesson) writes:
 
>
>Hi
>
>I am interested in knowing what type of shotguns hunters would prefer
>to use when hunting birds (e.g. goose).
>
>The types that I have in mind are:
>   - Over/Under (e.g. Browning Citory)
>  OR
>   - Semi-Automatic (e.g. Remington 11-87)
 
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Remmington 870 Express is
(IMHO) the best choice (it's a pump).
 
Variable chokes
3" shells
Under $200 (at Wal-Mart)
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
                        |  Pure Breed Labs - Ready on Thanksgiving day.
                        |
Chris Barnes            |     Sonny's Yellar Dawg Dixie SH
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |              x
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  HR Millercreek's Cash Payoff MH
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |       (finished MH title at 1992 Nat'l Master)
                        |
                        |  7 Hunting Test Titles (1 is a national title)
                        | 32 Field Trial Titles  (8 are national titles)
                        |  6 Confirmation Titles
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Answer and Questions
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:02:37 GMT
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

> Now for a question. I only started hunting last
> deer season and everything I know I read from a
> book or this newsgroup. I hunt in the forested
> Appalachian mountains in western Maryland.
> 
> How do I figure out where the deer are bedding, eating, etc. ?
> Where should I look?


Bucks will usually bed on the ridge tops (just below the tops,
actually) and unless you are in an area with adjacent farming, they'll
probably do most of their feeding right there in the woods, and that
can mean anywhere there are oak trees dropping. Find a white oak that
is dropping acorns, and you can't go wrong - they'll go after the
white oak acorns and leave the rest until the white oaks acorns are
gone.  (Ask the local game management folks if this is true for your
area.  They'll be able to tell you what is the best food source, if
you don't have any oaks.  They'll also be able to give you tips on
good places to hunt.)

Hunting deer in large forested areas can be tough, because they can go
anyplace they want, unlike in small woodlot areas.  The best tip I can
offer wrt to hunting mountain deer is to get a topo map and locate the
saddles between ridge tops.  (Saddles are the low, usually narrow
stretch of land connecting peaks.)  Find a saddle between two peaks
that is as narrow as possible on the map and set up a stand there -
there should be lots of deer trails, so you'll be able to tell where
to set up once you get there. Set up where the trails converge or
cross.  Deer typically use these saddle areas crossing over the ridges
(because they are lower than the peaks) and when moving from one peak
to another; I have a spot on a saddle area in Pa. that's only about 20
yards wide in one place, and that's where I set up.

The benefits to hunting saddles are that they typically see less
hunting pressure (most lazy hunters hunt the edges of fields adjacent
to roads rather than climbing up in the hills) and the deer are less
spooky than when they enter a field.  [Not only that - the drag is all
downhill! :-) ]


     ___         ____
    /    \______/    \
   | Peak ______ peak |
    \____/      \____/
           Saddle

This is a bad drawing, but I hope you get the idea.  Get a topo map,
and you'll see right away what I'm talking about.



Good luck,


Ken Whitehead