From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: FAQ.culture.bank
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:05:45 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



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                S O U R D O U G H    C U L T U R E
		D A T A B A S E

		compiled by Ken Ritchie
		at rodahl@watsci.uwaterloo.ca


Send me info on your starter if you are willing to share. It doesn't matter
if someone else has gotten a starter from the same source as yours,
yours might have changed due to your locale.
 
			
This file contains:

	How to dry and restart a culture

	Commercial Sourdoughs

	Personal Starters for share


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How to dry and restart a culture 

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from dadams@cray.com (David Adams)

Drying:

		For long term culture storage, store your culture
		in dried powder form.  Ed Woods book doesn't tell
		you how to do this right out, but I sort of discovered
		it on my own.  Actually I believe it is an old trick.
		
		Spread a three foot long section of wax paper on the 
		Table WAX SIDE UP.  Smear one tablespoon of fresh
		culture around evenly and 
		thinly over the surface of the wax paper.   Let it 
		dry overnight, and then scrape the dry flakes into
		a bowl and crunch them (Mortal & pestle style) into
		small pieces.  Put the powder into a labeled zip lock
		bag and press the air out.  

		The culture forms spores when it starts to dry out.
		The culture will store in a zip lock bag at normal
		temperatures like this for 6 months.  It will store
		even longer in the frezer.  

		I find that a zip-lock bag is very convenient way to
		carry a culture when traveling or moving.  Make sure
		the bag is labled and don't flaunt those little bags
		of white powder!

		I find it convenient to do several sheets of wax paper
		at once.  Then when friends ask for a start I spoon
		two teaspoons into a new bag, and carry it to work,
		or where ever I will see them next.

		Another reason I find this convenient is that if you
		own several different cultures, they don't all have
		to occupy a bottle in the fridge at once.

		And it is fairly easy to include a small zip-lock
		with a teaspoon or two of start in a letter.  An
		easy way to share starts.

Restarting:

		Dr. Wood recomends the following steps for activating
		dried sourdough cultures:

		Mix a couple of teaspoons of the dried powder with 
		1/2 cup of water at 95 to 100 deg F.  Mix briefly and
		let stand for 15 min.  Add 1/3 cup of white bread
		flour, mix well and proof for 24 hours at 85 deg. F.
		(My start needs 12 hours.)  "The jar lid should
		not be tightened.  During the first 12 hours the 
		culture should be stirred once or twice as convenient.

		"At the end of 24 hours the culture should start to 
		bubble but the time varies depending on which culture
		is to be activated.  Regardless, add an additional
		1/2 cup of 85 deg. F. water and 1/2 cup of flour.  
		Then stir vigorously to whip some air into the mixture.
		Return it to your warm place for 12 hours.  When
		the culture has a layer of foamy bubbles on the 
		surface, it is ready to use.

		Some of the cultures will fully activate in 24-48
		hours, but some may require 3 to 5 days.  During
		this time, keep the culture at 85 deg. F., add
		water and flour at about 12 hour intervals and stir
		briskly."  (Copied by permission from information 
		sheet sent with culture sample from Sourdoughs 
		International.)

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Commercial Sourdoughs

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>From: wilkins@scubed.SCUBED.COM (Darin Wilkins)

[Dr. Ed Wood of Sourdoughs International]
... has started a business selling the starters, which may be ordered by
credit card at 208-382-4828.  They cost US $10.50 each.  Also, they can be 
ordered by sending check or money order to:

                   Sourdoughs International
                   PO Box 1440
                   Cascade, ID 83611.

In addition Wood wrote a cookbook, _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_
(Sinclair Publishing, $23.50), which includes 137 recipes for sourdough
baked goods.  The book, which comes with a free starter of your choice, 
may be ordered with a credit card at 800-888-9567.  (or at the previous
number.  This is the number for Sinclair Publishing.  The previous number
is the number for Sourdoughs International.)  

<David Adams inserts the note:
The prices mentioned here are new.  They now include shipping and handeling
for U.S. customers.  (The $23.50 for the book includes shipping &handeling
4th class postage.  The $10.50 for the cultures includes shipping & handeling
priority mail.  I got my book and first culture in two days.)  Shipping and
haneling for non U.S. customers may be slightly higher.>

<Ken Ritchie adds

To order the book from Canada, you must call Sourdoughs International
directly (the 800 number doesn't work) and the book and free starter
costs 28.50 US funds, but that includes shipping and handling.>

They have the following cultures. People who refer to Sourdoughs
International (SI) are refering to the following cultures

Egypt:  The Red Sea culture:

This culture is from one of the oldest bakeries in Egypt.  It was found in
the village of Hurghada on the shore of the Red Sea.  The bread was actually
placed on the village street to rise.  It is one of the fastest cultures to
rise and has a mild sourdough flavor.

Egypt:  The Giza culture:

The bakery where this sourdough was found was almost literally in the shadow
of the Sphinx in the town of Giza not far from Cairo.  In Cairo there are
many modern bakeries.  This one, in Giza, dated straight back to antiquity.
The dough rises well and is moderately sour.

Bahrain:

Bahrain is thought, by many, to be the ancient Garden of Eden.  Since
antiquity it has been where East meets West.  It is a curious mixture of the
oldest and the newest.  The Bahrain sourdough is from the oldest of the
oldest.  It rises well and is one of the most sour.

Saudi Arabia:

The Saudis have completely transformed their country in the last fifty years
from a collection of villages to a country of modern cities equal to any
around the world.  But the desert bedouin has survived that transformation
unchanged.  And the Saudi sourdough is as desert as its bedouin baker.  It
rises moderately well and has the most distinctive flavor of all the cultures.

France:

The French sourdough is from a small bakery on the outskirts of Paris that
has been in business for over 150 years.  The starter rises very well and the
dough has one of the mildest sourdough flavors.

Austria:  

This starter is from the old section of Innsbruck.  The bakery carries a sign
over the entrance proclaiming 1795 as the year the business opened.  The
culture is especially adapted to rye flours, rises somewhat slowly and
produces one of the more sour doughs.

Yukon:

A Yukon prospector gave this starter to the physician father of a medical
school classmate of the author.  It traveled all the way to Saudi Arabia for
a comparison baking test with the San Francisco starter.  The results of that
test, indeed, were responsible for the search for other starters in the
Middle East dating to antiquity.  The Yukon produces moderately sour dough
and rises well.

San Francisco:

This "starter" was obtained from a relative of the author who had received it
from a prospector of the California gold rush era.  It rises quite slowly and
produces moderately sour dough of exquisite flavor.

<David Adams inserts:

Russian:

This culture was obtained by Ed Wood, the author of the above, from a 
friend from the vacinity of Moscow.  It is a very agressive culture and
has earned the reputation of being rather sour.  It will usually have
a very strong smell durring proofing.  Proofing times are much shorter
for this culture than for any of the other SI cultures.

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GOLDRUSH ENTERPRISES
122 E. Grand Ave
SO. San Fransisco, CA 94080

   They sell supplies, cookbooks, and dry yeast "seed" packets waiting
to be made into an active yeast culture.  It's not the best sourdough
I've ever tasted, but it's the best I've tasted east of the Sierra
Nevadas.  I think I read somewhere that it's descended from beer
yeast.

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Someone wrote ...

   I recommend ordering the Junior Baking Kit (around $8 in 1986) and
the book, "Adventures in Sourdough Cooking and Baking" ($8).  A
sourdough packet, which is the Junior kit without the storage pot,
costs around $2.25.




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>From: jrtrint@srv.PacBell.COM (John Trinterud)

I got my starter in our health food store, "Scrumptious Sourdough
Since 1889" from PO Box 520, Victor, Montana, 59875. They claim it
has a distinguished Alaska parentage, but I suspect our Siamese++
cat has better papers.  Total cost of the packet was all of $ 1.39.




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Personal Starters for Share

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NAME:      D. Jason Penney

ADDRESS:   P. O. Box 5342
           Aloha, OR 97006-0342
           (503)645-3984

           (just west of Portland)

E-MAIL ADDRESS :

penneyj@slc.com (backbone through uunet.uu.net, ogi.cse.edu, or psg.com)

TYPE OF STARTER :

My starter has rather humble beginnings; I just used the Gold Rush packet from
the Fred Meyer Health Food Section over ten years ago.

I've used it religiously ever since.  Once I lost it (left it out in hot
weather too long), and had to get it back from a friend I had given it to.
Sourdough starter is definitely one of those things that has positive cosmic
karma when you share it with others.

About two years after I started it, it changed its characteristics.  Basically,
it's slowed down quite a bit (the first proof of a bread dough can take
anywhere from two hours to three, the last proof as much as an hour), and it's
considerably more sour than the stuff I started with.

Part of this is probably protean Darwinism at work:  I use an electric blanket
to keep my starter warm at night:  this generates a couple degrees variation
as the blanket cycles, especially around the edges of the Corning dish.  Any
microbes that can't handle that have long since died.

The fact that the starter has changed is not surprising: conditions in the
Pacific Northwest are extremely conducive to sourdough starter;  I'm convinced
that my starter has "acclimatized" itself to my area.

For this reason, also, I would advise people searching for starter to look first
for people near them, or at least who have a similar climate (humidity and
temperature).  People living in western Washington or Oregon would be
particularly happy with my starter.

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I am happy to fill such requests.  Send SASE to

David Adams
1625 Dixon Dr.
St. Paul Park, MN 55071

Also It would help if you would include a small zip-lock bag with your
SASE for each culture.  (I have 3:  Russian, Bahrainian, & Goldrush.)


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>From: lliou@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Lily Liou )

Hi, everyone.  As David mentioned, I do have several cultures
I would be willing to share.  (Bahrain and SanFrancisco.  Haven't
bred up the Russian one yet, but soooooooon....)

I am moving in a few weeks, so I can't fill requests until
March, but if you want a starter,just send:

SASE (1 stamp will do it)
One ziploc baggie per variety requested
  (Hope to get that Russian going, but can't promise yet)

to:
Lily Liou
9228-A Regents Rd.
La Jolla, CA 92037

after February please! (You should see the condition my house
is in now... yikes!)

By the way, I am also interested in swaps, so if anyone has
something I don't have, I wouldn't mind exchanging!  

-Lily
lliou@sdcc3.ucsd.edu

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dadams@cray.com writes he thinks that Mike Cerreto would like
to share his cultures.

"mike cerreto"			<mcerreto@BBN.COM>

Mike
mentioned that he had four SI cultures including the French, Austrian,
and I don't remember what else.


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>From: jrtrint@srv.PacBell.COM (John Trinterud)

I got my starter in our health food store, "Scrumptious Sourdough
Since 1889" from PO Box 520, Victor, Montana, 59875. They claim it
has a distinguished Alaska parentage, but I suspect our Siamese++
cat has better papers.  Total cost of the packet was all of $ 1.39.
We've tried this particular starter three times, the first two we
didn't follow directions, and they both turned foul smelling and
died.

This latest incarnation has lasted about a year, and is quite good.
Good dependable sourness and rising, I use it almost every weekend.
It's kept in a large glass jar and we try and maintain at least 6
cups of starter at all times. This starter was slow to develop the
characteristic tang and spongy texture so desireable, but is working
quite well for us now. It is fed nothing but high gluten white bread
flour and warm water, and changing the flour WILL make a difference.
We also don't use metal implements or bowls in any of the stages of
sourdough cookery.

Average time to 1st proof - about 2 to 3 hours. Average time to rise
in a bread recipe, about 2 hours. Friday nights I take it out of the
'fridge, feed it 1 cup of flour and some warm water, and leave it in
our electric oven with the light on till morning. It usually rises
at least 4 to 5 inches in the jar (sometimes too much - it's named
'Ralph' for a good reason :-) ), and is nice and bubbly/spongy the
next morning.

I'd be glad to send samples out - send e-mail??

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>From: Dave Uebele <daveu@sco.COM>


I have a starter that has been in my family for quite some time
I think its a merging of starter from my grandmother and one my
mother started from information in Sunset magazine.
Its a milk and flour base starter.
It has primary been used for pancakes (I did not know what a non
sourdough pancake tasted like until I went to college;-)) and waffles
but I have had good luck making biscuits and bread.
I've made a loaf of bread using just the yeast in the starter, my mom makes a 
lot of bread and her sourdough is made using conventional dry yeast
with the sourdough used primarily as flavoring.

Many of the sourdough recipes I've seen in various cookbooks seem to assume
a water and flour based starter.  I would imagine there would be some
differences in taste and handling.

I am willing to make this starter available to others, but would 
prefer in person deliverly until I figure out the feasability
of mailing this starter.  I live near Santa Cruz and would be
willing to travel/distribute (within reason) to people in the San Jose
or San Fransico area.  I might be willing to extend distribution to other
areas of California if I am traveling in that direction for other
reasons at the same time.
I would also be interested in determining the "name" for this type
of starter.

thanks
dave
-
Dave Uebele	uunet!sco!daveu  or daveu@sco.com

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From cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT))


I have just finished activating the starters I have received in the mail
so far.  They are Bahrain, Russian, Alaskan, and Gold Rush.  If anyone
wants one or more, send the usual self addressed, stamped envelope with
suitable number of ziplocks to:

   Chris Teegarden
   2623 Cruft St.
   Terre Haute, IN  47802

Towards that end, I have a question about preparing dried versions.  Is it
best to let the wet culture digest most of the gluten before drying it to
make sure that the lactobacilli count is high, or does it really matter?
If this is covered in mailing list FAQs, could some nice person mail it
to me?  Our site only has dialup access to Internet so I am limited to
ftp sites with mail servers.  If any of these have the files, please
feel free to send me that info instead.

-- Chris (cat@acd4.acd.com)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough