HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Possible source for books on Albania and Albanian
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:35:58 GMT

Steven Finney mentioned a set of Albanian textbooks and cassettes which he
bought very cheaply from Albanian Report in New York.  Unfortunately, he'd
lost the address.  Fortunately, though, I happened to have spent part of the
evening in a perusal of our library's books on Enver Hoxha (who, incidentally,
died seven years ago tomorrow--RIP/PBUH) when I came across _Enver yne_ and
_Our Enver_ (the latter being an English translation of the former), written
by Ramiz Alia of the Institute of Marxist-Leninist Studies, Tirane".  Well,
as it happens, inside the front cover of each book was stamped the following:

	ALBANIA REPORT
	P.O. BOX 912
	NEW YORK, N.Y.   10008

I've sent a letter requesting a catalogue.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Written and Spoken Language(s)
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:13:13 GMT

In article <204689@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, djbpitt@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David J Birnbaum) writes:
<In article <1992Apr9.204958.19104@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU
<(Scott Horne)
[refers to a "written language" used by Chinese-speakers.]

<The reference to written Chinese as a written "language," rather than as
<the writing system used to record a spoken language, leads me to wonder
<whether the emphasis on the primacy of spoken language is appropriate.

What's wrong with referring to written Chinese as a "written language"?
Many languages (Tamil comes to mind) have different standards/styles for
writing and speaking.

<If we can speak of morphology
<in medieval Latin (synchronically), why can we not speak of morphology
<in written Chinese?

We can.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
From: mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: cinq
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:23:09 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <ARA.92Apr11013944@camelot.ai.mit.edu> ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:

>Why is there no u following the q?

Arbitrary French spelling rules.  They write "q" for etymological "qu" that
is now pronounced "k" and comes at the end of a word. ("Cinq" and "coq" are
the only examples that come to mine...)










-- 
==========================================================================
Michael A. Covington, Ph.D. |  mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu  |  ham radio N4TMI
Artificial Intelligence Programs | U of Georgia | Athens, GA 30602  U.S.A.
==========================================================================
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Linguistics TV Schedule
Keywords: Dixie
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:19:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <7059@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil> matt@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil (Matt Rosenblatt) writes:
>
>Couldn't be.  Although Maryland lies south of Mason and Dixon's Line,
>and our State song is a Confederate song that rails against the
>"tyrant's" (i.e., Abe Lincoln's) "Northern scum," 

Grade-school teachers have loads of fun explaining what "The despot's heel
is on thy shore, Maryland my Maryland" means, to all their wide-eyed kiddies.

>Maryland never did
>join the Confederate States of America,

...although soldiers from Maryland fought (in their official regiments) on
both sides.

> nor are citizens of Maryland
>(except for the Eastern Shore) commonly referred to as "rednecks."  

Of course not.  After all, Maryland is for crabs, not rednecks :-).

>Neither the State flag nor the Great Seal of Maryland incorporates
>the Stars and Bars.  Nor is there anything even remotely Confederate
>about our fine State Motto, which reads:
>
>               "Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine."

Really?  I thought the motto was "Honi soit qui mal y pense", borrowed from 
the Knights of the Sock Thing.  If that's not the motto, what is it?  The
State Slogan?  Aphorism?  Platitude?


	Sincerely,
	David Tate (who promises not to post anything else this irrelevant
		    to linguistics until the next Chugdush quotation makes
		    the rounds...)


-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: jmu@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (James M. Unger)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: 8I8 (was Re: Chinese question)
Date: 9 Apr 92 06:09:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Hawaii

In article <514@tdatirv.UUCP> sarima@tdatirv.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>
>The fact that the same writing system can be used for about 6 or 8 different
>languages is the great strength of the chinese writing system, and a great
>source of unity amoung the chinese people.  But is is *not*, and will
>never be primary.
>
Slight correction:  the _same_ writing system is not used for the different
languages that, mostly for political reasons, are called dialects of
Chinese.  There are well studied Chinese "dialects" for which no standard
orthography has been worked out; in the case of Cantonese and Mandarin,
there are morphemes that are historically cognate that are now written with
different characters; etc.  What you mean is simply that the same inventory
of characters serves for those Chinese languages that have a traditional
written form.  By that standard, of course, English and Dutch use the
"same" writing system. 

--
J. M. Unger, Chairman
Department of E. Asian Languages & Literatures
University of Hawaii
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Subject: Re: Written and Spoken Language(s)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:21:55 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <44971@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) 
writes (quoting me):
>>For good reasons.  All languages are spoken, while only a minority are
>>written; you learn a spoken language before learning a written one;
>>writing loses much of what goes on in speech; more speaking is done 
>>than writing; writing is heavily influenced by speech; writing is
>>more prestigious so speech needs a little theoretical boost.
>
>This is not true.  

Which of these six statements are you disagreeing with?  Your arguments
seem directed at a straw man (that everything in every written language
must derive from speech).

>Even in ancient times, there were pictographs, where
>I doubt that the choice of the symbols was in any way affected by the
>particular sounds used.  

Two counter-examples to your claim are Egyptian and Chinese; in both cases
the choice of symbols were heavily influenced by speech sounds-- huge
numbers of symbols are re-used for words that merely sound alike.  
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Chomsky is Citation Champ
Keywords: Chomsky
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:02:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.012623.28461@athena.mit.edu>, idsardi@athena.mit.edu (William J Idsardi) writes:
<
<	Indeed, Professor Chomsky is in illustrious company.  The top
<ten cited sources during the period were: Marx, Lenin, Shakespeare,
<Aristotle, the Bible, Plato, Freud, Chomsky, Hegel and Cicero.
[...]
<	"What it means is that he is very widely read across
<disciplines and that his work is used by researchers across
<disciplines," said Theresa A. Tobin, the Humanities Librarian who
<checked the numbers.  "In fact," she added, "it seems that you can't
<write a paper without citing Noam Chomsky."

Then I expect all future linguistics papers to cite Marx and Lenin.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
Shao2shan1 sheng1 de tai4yang2 yong3 bu2 luo4!
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Latin self-study
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:41:59 GMT
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University

In article <1992Apr7.200356.8995@leland.Stanford.EDU>, alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson) writes:
<In article <1992Apr4.192658.5610@cs.yale.edu>, horne-scott@CS (Scott Horne) writes:
<>In article <ARA.92Apr4121215@camelot.ai.mit.edu>, ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:
<
<>With some six or seven hundred finite verb forms (not to mention infinitives,
<>participles,...)?!  Why not just ask me to tape all of Plato?  (The answer is
<>no.  :-))
<
<Besides, paradigms are all well and good, but some examples of connected text
<are better.  Maybe Plato, after all... :)  And some Homer, and Euripides.

I guess you'll want me to sing Ion's lines?  :-)  (Too bad the music doesn't
survive.)

<Personal preference:  I don't like the Daitz tapes--too Koine for my taste,
<with it's fronted upsilon and high (rather than mid-high tense) omicron-upsilon
<for example.

Then you wouldn't like any recordings I'd make.  (Does this get me off the
hook?  :-))  Long live fronted upsilon!  (But definitely mid-high tense
omicron-upsilon.)

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Written and Spoken Language(s)
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:14:43 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <204854@unix.cis.pitt.edu> dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>In article <44971@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>>There are also languages which are primarily written.  The Hindu-Arabic
>>numeral representation are one of them, 

>Now I'm *really* confused.  In what way do the Hindu-Arabic numerals comprise
>a language, except perhaps in the automota-theoretical sense?  Linguistics
>doesn't study that sort of "language", which is simply a set of "well-formed"
>symbol strings.  

			..................

>At any rate, this is irrelevant, since these are just a set of signs with
>conventional meanings, like UPC bar codes or international traffic signs.
>Do red, amber, and green traffic lights constitute a "language"?

These do not constitute a language, any more than the collection of words
used by Mr. Tate in his posting constitue a language.  But they are part 
of a language.  The various colors of traffic lights constitute words in
a language, and the UPC bar codes characters.  The numerals are characters
in a written language, which, like the traffic lights and UPC bar codes,
are deliberately designed to be used in communications in which the speaking
of expressions is not considered particularly relevant.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Numbers and language
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:25:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.214920.3874@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>That is, if you read "42" you think
>"forty-two", and the French equivalent isn't reinforced.  If you read
>"quarante-deux", it will be, but this doesn't occur as often.
>
>A good test of this notion would be to learn Arabic, where the numerals
>are somewhat different, and see if you learn to count fluently in Arabic.

Damn, this is good.  Has anyone ever looked into this?  This is a really
good idea. 

Regards,
Janis C.
From: connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Tenses
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:46:29 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <l8xjqk@lynx.unm.edu>, lgorbet@carina.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet ANTHROPOLOGY) writes:
> Certainly we need to avoid confusing semantics of tense and its grammatical
> expression, and when I said _tense_ was used to refer to either, I assumed
> that the word would be used in contexts where *which* was meant was clear.

But of course it isn't always.  Perhaps I'm being picky, but since I've
seen time and its linguistic expression confounded too many times because
of injudicious use of the word _tense_, I prefer to err on the side of
pickiness.

> 
> On the other hand, I still don't see where restricting the *grammatical*
> sense of _tense_ to *morphological* expression and excluding *syntactic* 
> expressions gets you anywhere.  Why not -- when you are dealing *just* with
> morphology -- call it "morphological tense"?  Otherwise, you make languages
> with less morphology look more different in more ways than they may really be.
> In diachronic terms, the moves from syntactic and free to cliticized to
> affixed tense morphemes look like addition of new grammatical categories when
> the actual change may be mostly in form alone.

I don't think it does, and I didn't intend to say anything of the sort.
I just reread my last reply, and I thought then that you were referring
to languages where tense receives *no* linguistic expression.  I'm quite
content to accept analytical forms as valid tense forms (indeed, my exam-
ples in the last posting did just that).  My intent in the original
posting was to say that English is a two-tense language *if* only one-word
verb forms are analyzed -- which I think is foolish, but which some linguists
have nonetheless done.

I think we agree, more or less, and some days that's a lot.

--Leo Connolly
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Albanian Resources
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:26:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr8.032645.17633
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University

In article <1992Apr6.210303.7836@88opensi.88open.ORG>, sf@88opensi.UUCP (Steven Finney) writes:
<
<Without trying to judge quality, here are some resources for Albanian:

Thanks for posting.

<1) Spoken Albanian, book and cassette set available from Spoken Language
<  Services, Ithaca, NY, around $70 for book + 6 cassettes. Done by Leonard
<  Newmark at UCSD and cohorts. Only one speaker on the tapes. Dialogues seem  
<  well done. I've been told the grammar is not presented well.

Glad to hear that; I was thinking of buying it (sans cassettes).

<2) Colloquial Albanian, Routledge. Book and 1 cassette, around $35.

Really?  I got my _Colloquial Hungarian_ (with cassette) for $29.95.  Unfair!

That expensive bookstore in New York with dictionaries in scores of languages
(one branch near Rockefeller Plaza, one next door to the huge Barnes and Noble
at 5th & 18th [take a Green 4 or 6 to Union Square]) was selling the book
alone for $30.  Everything in that store costs much more than retail.

I didn't think much of the cassette that came with _Colloquial Hungarian_,
so I think I'll do without if I buy their _Colloquial Albanian_.

<3) Standard Albanian: A reference grammar. Newmark and cohorts, published by
<   Stanford.

Yes.  This is the one I mentioned recently.

<4) Some (East and West) German textbooks. One is even translated into English -
<   by Martin Camaj?

Really?  That would be a surprise.

<5) Actually, the textbook I liked best was published in Tirane, in Albanian 
<   only, with glossary in English, French, and Spanish; it was called something
<   like "Gjuhes Shqipes" ("Albanian Language"). If you knew some basic
<   Albanian to start with, it was quite useable.

Interesting.  How's the glossary (completeness and accuracy)?

<   I got it from Albania Report
<   in NYC for a ridiculously low price (with tapes) a few years ago, but with
<   the upheaval in Albania, they may be out of the biz.

I'll try to find out (and will post any info I get).

<Gaspar Kici, near Washington DC, has separate Albanian-English
<and English-Albanian dictionaries available; I have heard them recommended
<highly.

Newmark _et al._ recommended them and said that they're available only from
Kici himself (apparently they were privately printed in Italy).  They gave
an address; but since their book was published in 1983....  Do you happen to
know if the address is still valid?

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: feminine as default (summary)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: feminine generic default
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:20:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.201054.21752@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hermes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron Szoke) writes:

>>  Subject: Gender marking
>>
>>  In Esperanto, "father" = 'patro' while "mother" = 'patrino'.
>>  That is, "patro" with the feminizing suffix "-ino."
>>
>>  Personally, I have a violently negative reaction to that
>>  formation and believe it's a fault that ought to be fixed.
>
>Yes, I dislike this one too, as well as "viro : virino" `man : woman':
>I find it unnatural to think of `mother' as `female father' (which
>completely misses the natural counterposition `bearer' : `begetter')
>or of `woman' as `female man' (where "man" is not used in its generic
>sense, which it has in English; rather, it means `male human').  I
>know that there are some Esperantists who use "matro".
>

I may have gotten attributions wrong -- pardon if I did.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's wonderful to hear other people
disliking this term!  I can't STAND it, and was told by my tutor that I
was the only person who didn't like calling my mom "female-father" and I
was some kind of freak for not liking it, and I had no reason to react
the way I did, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.  It's very nice to see that
reaction from others and, sorry -- from men as well.

I'm thriled to hear that there are Esperantists who use "matro," just as
I do when I use the language.  I also use "soro" instead of fratino,
and "femo" for "virino."  It seems more natural.  (I don't want to
provoke a flamewar on this as it is inappropriate; I'm just voicing an
opinion, BUT . . .  Genetics has shown that the Y-chromosome is actually
an X with a little piece broken off.  Shouldn't "man" then be "virfemo"
and "father" be "virmatro?"  I personally prefer "patro" and "matro."
My mom and dad are my mom and dad, damn it.)

Where have you heard of Esperantists who use "matro?"  I'm very
interested in hearing more about this.  I'm glad other people resent
having half the race treated as the default and the other half being
relegated to a suffix.

You have just about made my day.

Regards,
Janis C.
 
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: What is a dialect?
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:54:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.200823.9953@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, userisra@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca (Mark Israel) writes:
<In article <1992Apr9.234112.21656@cs.yale.edu>, horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
<
<> If you know only Mandarin, you will not be able to speak with people 
<> from Hong Kong, where Cantonese is spoken (unless they also know 
<> Mandarin).  This indicates that Mandarin and Cantonese are different 
<> languages. 
<
<   Written Mandarin and written Cantonese are virtually identical.  

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Just ask some Mandarin-speaking friends to read
magazines in the Cantonese vernacular.

Not even all the characters used to write Cantonese are found in Mandarin.

<That seems to imply that there is a one-to-one mapping between Mandarin
<words and Cantonese words.

Wrong again.

<This would make Mandarin and Cantonese more
<closely related to each other than English is to any language (there
<is no one-to-one mapping between English words and French words, or
<even between standard English words and Pidgin English words).

It would if it were true.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Latin alphabet
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:02:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.144329.1771@memstvx1.memst.edu>, connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
<In article <8906@scott.ed.ac.uk>, iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
<
<> Of course they may.  Human stupidity knows no limits.
<
<Insufferable arrogance, I say.

You're right.  Insufferable arrogance knows no limits.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Latin alphabet (was: Inventing a writing system?)
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:34:40 GMT

In article <8919@scott.ed.ac.uk>, iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
<In article <167C212DA7.JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU> JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU writes:
<
<> <...> it is
<>of historic interest to note that Russian Cyrillic (Scott will know at
<>least 2 reasons I must use the limitation) formerly had a character that
<>was the equivalent of Greek 'theta',
<
<Cyrillic full stop formerly had this letter.  It was there since the
<alphabet's first day, and it didn't spend its first day in Russia.

Too bad.  It missed out on some beautiful scenery.  :-)

[About _fita_:]
<It didn't exactly die, it only got a new job: it is used in many
<Altaic languages under the name "barred `o'" for the front rounded
<midvowel.

Yes--languages like Mongolian and Chugdush.  :-)

<(The bar is actually somewhat squigglish.)

Not always.

<>(probably during some cruel Stalinist purge),
<
<I don't know whether this was a guess or a joke, but whatever it was,
<it was a very bad one.

Indeed.

<This is a public-service announcement reminding you to keep political
propaganda off `sci.lang'.  Thank you, and have a nice day.>

<On the other hand, English had a good use for the
<thorn and the eth, and my honest opinion is that those villains who
<were guilty of their loss fully deserved to have their ears cut off
<and to be drawn and quartered afterwards.

The villains are the French scribes.  (_Que leur sang impur abreuve...._  :-))

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!