From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz (Philip R. Banks)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Bandwidth on the NZ Server
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:56:39 +1200
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: My Arc.

neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite) writes:

>       Wouldn't have thought the co-ordination job would be excessively
> hard. Print out the indexes (or use an editor). Find out what isn't where
> and mail the administrator the files they don't have.

   You are forgetting one major thing - time. This sort of thing takes alot
of it and site administrators are usually doing this job for the love of it
in their spare time and are thus usually very short of time. However we have
been trying. Albert has been very kind and has been echoing all new uploads
to newcastle out to me. However due to the vagaries of the network this
occasionally fails and files go astray. Again time must be spent chasing
those files up and correcting the loss.

   This is not to say it isn't a bad idea merely that some of us are already
trying it and it has problems.

>       I merely stated the obvious way to reduce loading on a server
> that is half way round the world from most people. If Newcastle/Stuttgart
> have a copy of the programs people will not piss Phil off by getting it
> from him which cost a pile and ended up with the server world access being
> axed. This works both ways aswell. After all the software is PD/Shareware
> and it is supposed to be passed round.

   Ah but not all of the software here *is* PD. Specifically the Acorn
material. As I have said often now these files are under special conditions
- we *cannot* allow other sites to distribute them. Simply the terms we were
given them under. Other sites may have similarly limited distribution
material and any co-ordination scheme must account for this.

>       If you post a worldwide article saying the xxxyyy piece of software
> is on your server and people can't find it locally are you really surprised
> that the went to the NZ server. Instead of posting the article worldwide
> post it to (oznet ?, the Australasia equivalent of EUNET if one exists)
> so local people to Phil get the details and mail the program to the
> european Arc servers so it will be lodged there.

   This is what is happening now. All upload notices are being restricted to
the nz domain only. (The Distribution field is a wonderful if under used
optional field.)  However the reason I am most annoyed is that the fair wack
of the files being accessed could be easily sourced from places like
newcastle or the Uni-Stuttgart archives which is where *we* got them from.
The reason the postings were global was to let people know, and the reason
why they list every new file we stock goes back to time.

   In order to simplify our lives Julian and I have been working hard to
produce a set of scripts to automate large chunks of the file-update and
upload process for us. These scripts are complex enough without adding the
extra complexity of getting them to parse *two* news messages - one for
normal release and one for external release. We barely had time to get these
ones going before I ran out of real time to continue to work on them
extensively.

>       I'm not knocking people who provide services to others. Merely
> stating the obvious.

   And I don't mean to be rude but you are showing that you don't yet fully
understand the sheer amount of work and labour that goes into an archive. I
doubt I did fully till I started doing it either. The level of commitment
required quickly makes the archive a labour of love more than anything else,
especially if you aren't being paid to maintain the archive. (Which very few
maintainers are I believe) Which also explains why the moderators of abused
archives tend to be so upset about the abuse and take it very personally.

   When you set up an archive there is the large overhead of the initial
stocking of the archive with files, the setting up of procedures for
documentation and consistancy of the files. Preparing utilities to help you
in the job and then the ensuring that all the connections into your archive
go.

   Once it is up you are then into the not so inconsiderable problems of
maintaing the archive - ensuring the latest and only the latest versions of
software are on it. Correcting goofs and gaffs you may have made. Checking
out errors that users report. Not to mention sourcing the new material
itself.

   Now this is not to say there aren't some good points to the job. I
personally get a great deal of satisfaction out of actively supporting my
favourite machine and the users of that machine. Being an active member on
the Local and National Acorn user groups I have always enjoyed this. But one
is nearly always pushed for time.

   If you have the free time and the inclination I would welcome someone who
co-ordinated this sort of cross archive pollination. I suggest though you
think if over very carefully as it will be somewhat time consuming to
manage. If you are interested then an email to all the Acorn archivers in
the list Gerben Vos puts out would be the next step....

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks                                                         @@@@@/|
Syntax: mail <banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz|banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz> @@@@/#|
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What price the crown of a king on his throne,                           @@/---|
When you're chained in the dark all alone?  ---A.P.P.                   @/    |