HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: franck Daphnis <fd10@cornell.edu>
Subject: France-Finland: The case aganst Houiller
X-Xxdate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02: 23:10 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: fd10@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:20:00 GMT

These comments follow the disappointing performance of the tricolores in
the game against Finland.
The problem with the team is not Papin or Cantona (who regularly score
even when they have few occasions).  The problem is that there is nobody
in the team capable of consistently creating the offensive plays that
will put the two forwards  in a position to score.  Yet, such players
exist in France: Christian Perez, David Ginola, Philippe Vercruysse,
Reynaldo Pedros, and even Jean Marc Ferreri ( on the bench at Marseilles).
Alas we know that Houiller will never put more than two players in the
midfield, because of his commitment to placing two stoppers in defense
(in front of a libero) and to two defensive wing men (joueurs de
couloirs, as he calls them).  That is 5 defenders.  If you add the two
midfields and a keeper, that makes 8 players already, whose primary task
is to defend.  Now, with Papin and Cantona waiting for the ball to arrive
to them (a ball they would put in the net if indeed it arrived) this
leaves you with only one spot for an offensive play maker, which I think
is not enough.  Yet, Houiller fills this spot with a third forward
(Gravelaine or Vahirua).  While I think these players are great, they
should play alongside either Papin or Cantona, but not alongside the both
of them.  Gravelaine or Vahirua are not players who can assume control of
a game.  Even if they could, they would need a partner to "combine" and
create in the midfield.  Look at Milan or even Juventus.  They have at
least two players capable of giving a good pass to their forwards.  Look
at Marseilles last year (Pele and Waddle)---I will not even mention the
Platini-Giresse duo of the 80's.  Perhaps if Houiller decided to
sacrifice Cantonna, he could free a second spot, but I will agree with
him that Cantona is too precious a player to sacrifice.
The solution?  Play with four defenders and forget the Ivic method of
five defenders.  You can still have your two defensive midfields and two
offensive playmakers that way. 
Houiller never played the game.  He is convinced that in order not to
loose, you have to play to control your adversary, not to develop your
own game.  This is against what French soccer has stood for with Hidalgo
and Platini (the player, not the coach).
Perhaps it is time to bring somebody who trusts his players and not some
defensive scheme concocted on the blackboard.  France has the players to
play good soccer.  It does not have the right system.
All France fans let me know what you think.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: harin@iti.gov.sg (Harinderpal Singh)
Subject: World Cup Qualifier Results
Originator: harin@heidi.iti.gov.sg
Reply-To: harin@iti.gov.sg
Organization: Information Technology Institute National Computer Board
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:15:36 GMT


Results of matches played on Sunday 22 Nov 1992 :


Concacaf Group A
================

The Results
-=-=-=-=-=-

Mexico		4-0	Costa Rica
St Vincent	0-4	Honduras


The Standings
-=-=-=-=-=-=-

		P W D L  F  A  Pts
Mexico		3 3 0 0 10  0   6
Honduras	3 2 0 1  7  4   4
Costa Rica	3 1 0 2  3  7   2
St Vincent	3 0 0 3  0  9   0


The Upcoming Fixtures
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

28 Nov		Honduras - St Vincent
29 Nov		Costa Rica - Mexico


Concacaf Group B
================

The Result
-=-=-=-=-=

Jamaica		0-2	El Salvador


The Standings
-=-=-=-=-=-=-

		P W D L  F  A Pts
El Salvador	5 3 1 1 10  5  7   <--- Through to next round
Canada		5 2 2 1  9  7  6   <--- Need a draw in the final match
Jamaica		5 1 2 2  5  7  4   <--- Need a miracle
Bermuda		5 1 1 3  7 12  3   <--- Already eliminated


The Upcoming Fixtures
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

06 Dec		Bermuda - Canada
06 Dec		El Salvador - Jamaica


Cheers,
	Harin
	~~~~~
-- 
Harinderpal Singh Grewal                                     harin@iti.gov.sg
National Computer Board, Singapore                     harinder@itivax.bitnet
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I  P  S  W  I  C  H     T  O  W  N     F  O  O  T  B  A  L  L     C  L  U  B
From: ejua64@castle.ed.ac.uk (D Howat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,eduni.football
Subject: Re: Predictions' League from Edinburgh University
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:59:41 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Dundee 0-1 Dundee Utd
Hearts 1-3 Rangers
Celtic 2-0 Falkirk
Airdrie 1-2 Hibs
St Johnstone 3-2 Motherwell
Partick 1-1 Aberdeen

St Mirren 2-0 Kilmarnock

Brechin 3-0 Stenhousemuir

douglas
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: sut@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Secure Unix Team KID01)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Leeds-you have a rubbish pitch!!
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:15:04 GMT
Organization: ICL Bracknell, UK

In article <1eqmh5INNngb@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> phucn@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Miss D A Hill) writes:
>
>   Ok,so the might GOONERS lost at Leeds...but the fact is,the pitch was a 
>disgrace....NO match should have been allowed on it.And,I notice you had
>to injure our goalie before you won!
>
>Wait till you go to Highbury...you will get a welcoming which you won't
>forget in a hurry!!!!!
>

Oh yes, and not forgetting the traditional hoax bomb alert phone call to the 
holiday inn at 4am Saturday morning. Its amazing what Leeds fans will stoop
too....
On a more reflective note on the Arsenal/England squad, where are all the 
Norwich fans complaining that they're top o' the table and don't have any
players in the team?

C'mon you Gunners!
calvski
-- 
 Mail:          calvin@zen.icl.co.uk		
 Phone:         Internal: 7241 3898 External: 0782 771000
 Organisation:  International Computers Limited
 Address:       West Avenue, Westfields, Kidsgrove, Staffs, ST7 1TL
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: Topical comments (Gerry's on the drink)
Reply-To: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:37:36 GMT

scogpw@thor.cf.ac.uk (Gordon Walker) writes:

>Looks to me like Brady is creating another West Ham up there - very nice
>football, doesn't win much! (even including ex-WH players). I think most
>WH fans over the years would admit they played it a little *too* nice at
>times to actually win something (apart from the odd cup run). After all
>we all know (or should do) that you don't have to be the best
>"footballing side" to win the league or whatever.

I believe the reason behind the lack of success of the 'attractive' sides
in England (and probably in Scotland as well) is the ridiculously long
season without a mid-winter break. I can't remember how many times
West Ham started the season well and was near the top of the table 
before the winter began and when the pitches started getting worse
Hammers' form faded away.

The failure of Spurs to win the league despite having a good team in 
the early 80's is probably due to the same thing. Liverpool could play 
attractive football and win titles only because they had large enough 
squad of quality players. 

Arsenal is a good example of a successful side that plays 'ugly' football.
If you're not a fan of theirs, there's not much to watch in their game.
Unfortunately, there's a good chance for them to win the title this season.
If Arsenal are not able to adjust their style to continental football, 
they'll never have any chances among the best in Europe.

Janne Kivela"

      "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
                     ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: Plagiarism and Belgium's goals (was Re: World Cup Qualifier Results)
Organization: Federation Internationale de Football Association
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 19:23:02 GMT

halchuk@seismo.emr.ca (Steve Halchuk) writes:

>dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>>Thank you very much for plagerising my posting Harin.

>I'm a little confused as to the incorrect goals tally claim for Belgium.
>According to my "independently compiled" statistics :) Group 4 presently
>looks like this:

>GROUP 4
>                    Played  Won  Drew  Lost   For  Against  Points
> BELGIUM               5     5     0     0      9      1      10      
> ROMANIA               4     2     1     1     13      3       5     
> WALES                 4     2     0     2      8      7       4     
> CZECHOSLOVAKIA        3     1     1     1      6      3       3     
> CYPRUS                3     1     0     2      2      2       2
> FAROE ISLANDS         5     0     0     5      0     22       0

That is the correct standing. My newly (today) made table making program
puts up the same table.

As to the Wales - Belgium game: in the list announced before the tournament
the game was listed as a Walisian home game, but several papers and tv
station has reported it as a home victory (2-0) and then gone on to show
the perfect tally for Belgium above.

Let us have the facts: was it played in Wales or Belgium?
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen      | Bramming Boldklub - 2x Danmarksserie
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk |                        finale.
       There is no such club as "AGF Aarhus"
From: jhiggott@axion.bt.co.uk (Jeff Higgott)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Ipswich Town new signings
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:17:08 GMT
Reply-To: JHiggott@axion.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom Labs


Ipswich Town have signed the Yugoslav midfielder Vladimir Bozinoski and 
the Bulgarian attacker Bentcho Guntchev from Bobby Robson's Sporting
Lisbon for 
200,000 quid.

Jeff...

 "Boldly going where we've already been,
  That's Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine."
                                  - I, LUDICROUS
From: mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: junior(scottish non-league) football
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:10:56 +0100
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology



  does anyone have results, tables etc for scottish junior football?

  any info would be appreciated...


Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: WC qualifier: Israel-Sweden
Reply-To: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:06:11 GMT

laag@solan.unit.no (Steinar L}g) writes:

> > Looks like our Norwegian friends are getting a little bit too cocky after
> > a couple of lucky results. Nevertheless, it won't change the fact that
> > Norwegian football is as much crap as Finnish football. 
> > 
>No need to generalize about Norwegians because of one crap-posting, Janne.
>BTW, do you really think Finnish football is crap??
>It certainly didn't looked so in the away-game against France on Saturday.
>Based on reports, you also were very unlucky against Sweden some weeks ago.
>(In my view Sweden is Europe's best national team for the moment.)
>I think both Finland and Norway has the potential for getting very good.

Yes, Finland was unlucky against Sweden, but they played very badly against
Bulgaria. And Finnish under-21 team beat France 2 - 1 away, which is
a promising result. Finland (U21) are currently top of the table in their 
group. The problem is that though the Finnish youth team is doing well
the players will never have a chance to develop their full potential in 
Finnish league. These young players won't be given a chance in a major
European league because their basic skills are often lacking though they
physically would be excellent.

Football has a great potential in Finland if we look at the attendance figures
in the international games. No other sport can pull 20 000 people for 
a friendly international. But the attendances in the league are fairly low.

I agree with you that Norway has the potential for getting very good and
I used to think Finland has it too, but today I'm more pessimistic.
Finnish clubs have been doing very badly in European competitions recently
and the promising results of our national team have turned to clear
losses.

I don't think Sweden is the best team in Europe, but they might have the best
midfield in Europe with Limpar, Schwarz, Thern and Ingesson.

Janne Kivela"

      "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
                     ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
From: SCLARKE@ESTEC.BITNET (Sean Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Re Cameroon 90
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:40:10 GMT
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)

Oops!

Seems I made a complete arse of myself re. Cameroon (USSR), sorry for
the duff info, you can stop the flames now.
From: M.H.Smith@newcastle.ac.uk (Mark Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Leeds signing
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:58:28 GMT
Organization: University of Durham


	I've kept hearing that Leeds have signed a foreign (Norwegian ??)
striker to start after Crimble.

	Anybody know `ought about him ?


	Ta,
		Mark Smith m.h.smith@sur.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: vlad@erg.sri.com (vlad)
Subject: Re: World Indoor Championships
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 23:12:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.221804.6447@europa.asd.contel.com> andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa) writes:
>Poland 5   Nigeria 4
>Argentina 2  Hong Kong 1
>US 8    Russia 3
>Spain 6  China 5
>
>Andy B
>

Thanks, Andy! Let's hear more! Were these the first games? What other teams
are playing? Any of it on TV, say, in Mexico? What rules?

Thanks,

Vlad
Date: Thursday, 19 Nov 1992 08:36:21 CET
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Germany-Austria, "friendly"
Organization: RISC, J.K. University, Linz; Austria
From: kstokker@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Karel Stokkermans)

Nuremberg, November 18, 1992

Germany 0-0 Austria

World Champions Germany and "Worst National Team of Europe" (as a German
once called it :-) Austria played a scoreless draw yesterday evening.
I didn't see the match, and judging from the 5 minute summary I did see,
I didn't miss a thing. I heard German Teamchef Berti Vogts commenting on it
as: (after stating that Germany had dominated the first 20 minutes but
Austria had managed to take the flow out of the German play after half an
hour or so) "Wir sind froh, dass wir ein Unentschieden noch erreicht haben"
(We're happy that we at least manage to get a draw), referring no doubt to
the sitter missed by Toni Polster four minutes from time.

The "friendly" was marred by some bad temper and foul play, culminating
in the sending off of German Ulf Kirsten and Austrian Peter Artner in the
73th minute. Kirsten, not even 5 minutes in the game, had made a bad
challenge on Austrian 'keeper Konsel (a very bad challenge indeed), and
after he had received a friendly push from Stoeger, Artner deemed it
necessary to do it over, a little more unfriendly. Kirsten of course
went down as if he had been hit by something very heavy. Artner was sent
off for that, but so was Kirsten, presumably for his challenge on Konsel.

Austrian commentator Robert Seeger (Oh, am I glad I didn't have to see
this live!) of course went nuts about the result. A bit pathetic, but
I suppose getting a draw against the mighty world champions is a welcome
change here.

Cheers,
Karel
--
-- Karel Stokkermans, RISC-Linz, Schloss Hagenberg, Austria, Europa
 -- email: kstokker@risc.uni-linz.ac.at
"O hoe vergeefs / des doelmans hand / zich strekte naar de bal    [  21-6-88,  ]
 die 'een minuut / voor tijd de Duitse / doellijn kruiste..."     [ J. Deelder ]
From: CSALLEN@uga.cc.uga.edu (Christopher S. Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: FIFA WORLD INDOOR CUP
Date: 18 Nov 1992 15:40:02 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


FIFA - World Indoor Soccer Championship in Hong Kong

                            Group D

        USA                    8:3                RUSSIA
         Clavijo       5'                          Eremenko
         Agoos        14'                          Eremenko
         Borja        15'                          Tchoukhlov
         Agoos         ?'
         Woodbury      ?'
         Fernandez     ?'
         Borja         ?'
         Ervine        ?'

        SPAIN                  6:2                 CHINA

                              Group A

        HONG KONG              1:2                 ARGENTINA

        POLAND                 5:4                 NIGERIA


Looks like a lot of ex-national team outdoor folks are in the indoor
game. In addition to Clavijo and Agoos, former national team
defender, Mike Windischman is also on the Indoor national team.

I'll post more info if I can find it.

Chris

|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Prof. Christopher S. Allen                  Voice: (706) 542-2984  |
| Political Science Department                  FAX: (706) 542-4421  |
| University of Georgia                  Bitnet: csallen@uga.bitnet  |
| Athens, GA 30602 - USA           Internet: csallen@uga.cc.uga.edu  |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,soc.culture.polish
From: michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Polska 2. liga
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, Geneva
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:35:15 GMT

Normally I don't post the 2nd league results, but here's an exception.

Some results and current standings of Polish 2nd league
=======================================================

Group 1
-------
Lechia Gdansk      - Bal~tyk Gdynia         4:1
Arka Gdynia        - Zagl~e,bie Wal~brzych  0:0

Top of table:
1. Warta Poznan
2. Sle,za Wrocl~aw
3. Lechia Gdansk
4. Sokol~ Pniewy
...
8. Arka Gdynia

Group 2
-------
Bl~e,kitni Kielce  - Motor Lublin           1:0

Top of table:
1. Karpaty Krosno
2. Polonia Warszawa
3. Stal Stalowa Wola
4. Motor Lublin

Cheers.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
  Michal~ Szleper                            e-mail: michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch
  CERN - PPE Division                                                     
  CH-1211 Geneve 23 ; Bat.892                "All you need is love, love, 
  tel. (22) 767-64-01                         Love is all you need..."       
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Subject: CONCACAF Cup Winners Cup
Reply-To: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Organization: Ingres, an Ask Company, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:45:05 GMT

Played 11/18:

San Jose Oaks [U.S.] (0) 1 F.C. Monterrey [Mexico] (2) 4

This was a first leg game played in San Jose. Second leg in Monterrey
on December 1st. San Jose was representing the U.S. by virtue of their
US Open Cup win this year. I don't understand why the winners of the
US Professional Cup weren't the representatives however.

The game was as one-sided as you would expect in an Amateur vs
Professional matchup. Monterrey could easily have doubled their score
given the number of straightforward chances they succeeded in missing.
As it was, a hattrick by Bianchezi steered Monterrey to a very
comfortable win and an expected 2nd leg demolition job.

--
Colin Morris    Ingres, an ASK Group company     cmorris@ws2s.ingres.com

"It's never too late to hate Luton Town" -- Danny Baker
From: terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: FIFA WORLD INDOOR CUP
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:04:35 GMT
Organization: The Lafayette Group, St. Louis, MO.

In article <9211182140.AA25922@deepthought.cs.utexas.edu>, CSALLEN@uga.cc.uga.edu (Christopher S. Allen) writes:
+ 
+ FIFA - World Indoor Soccer Championship in Hong Kong
+ 
+                             Group D
+ 
+         USA                    8:3                RUSSIA
+          Clavijo       5'                          Eremenko
+          Agoos        14'                          Eremenko
+          Borja        15'                          Tchoukhlov
+          Agoos         ?'
+          Woodbury      ?'
+          Fernandez     ?'
+          Borja         ?'
+          Ervine        ?'
+ 
+ 
+ Looks like a lot of ex-national team outdoor folks are in the indoor
+ game. In addition to Clavijo and Agoos, former national team
+ defender, Mike Windischman is also on the Indoor national team.
+ 
+ I'll post more info if I can find it.
+ 

Clavijo, of course, is a very experienced indoor player. He played
for the St.Louis Storm with the (now defunct) Major Soccer League.
-- 
  Terry Linhardt                ...!wupost!jgaltstl!terry 
                                terry%jgaltstl.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: ay00@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALI YILDIRIM)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: England vs Turkey (U21) result
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:41:52 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Today, Turkish national U21 team has beaten England : 1-0 (it was played in
England). Turkish team scored its goal in the 75th minute. The scorer was
Cafer from an Ankara team Genclerbirligi. Overall, Turkish team played better
than their English counterparts, and they controlled the game from the start
to the end.
-- 


   +===============================+=======================================+
   | Ali YILDIRIM                  |  "Programs expand to fill the memory  |
   | ay00@lehigh.edu               |   available to hold them."            |
   | ay00@pl122b.eecs.lehigh.edu   |                      Parkinson's Law  |
   | ayildiri@toto.csee.lehigh.edu |                                       |
From: gharpure@power.psl.ee.vt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re:Penalty shootout querries
Date: 21 Nov 1992 11:26:09 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Recently someone asked:
 
>I have a couple of queries abou the procedures for the "tie-breaking
>procedure" aka penalty-shootout.
 
>1. Is the first-round order for the list of penalty takers
>pre-determined? ie does the referee have to have a list of the takers
>prior to the start of the shootout, or are the teams free to choose
>who they like on each kick (subject to each kicker being different
>etc)?

	I think the former. Halfway through the Argentina-Yugoslavia penalty
	shootout in 1990 WC, the referee sent back one Yugoslavian player and
	called another to take the kick. The player sent back took a later
	kick. (As it happens, both missed, costing them the match (and
	condemning all of us to two more matches of Argentina))
 
>2. In the '86 QF between France and Brasil, the penalty kick of
>Belloni (sp?) was hotly contested because, after hitting the post, the
>ball rebounded away from the goal, hit the back of the 'keeper and
>went in the net. The goal was given but the Brasilians contested it on
>the grounds that the ball was dead as soon as it bounced away from the
>goal. I believe FIFA issued a clarification regarding this kind of
>situation. What was the clarification? Should such a kick count as a
>goal? 

	Evidently it did. But there were no precedents to follow then, and
	now we have one. The idea presumably was that in a normal penalty, it
	would certainly count as goal. As long as the kicker does not touch the
	ball twice, there is no difference in the two and so it stood. I would
	be interested to know if such a situation was considered by FIFA or the
	referee beforehand, or did the referee make an interpretation on the
	spot and the clarification came laterr?


Vasudev