HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: takekosh@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Tetsu Takekoshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: GB at LAR - captain's opinion :-J
Date: 19 Nov 1992 20:23:49 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun109.usc.edu


In article <2642@cronos.metaphor.com>, polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk) writes:
|> The TWNN vs LAR game at ksu.inl.edu did not seem to be
|> plagued with lag.  The LAR players were getting phasor
|> locks and doing other things you can only do without
|> too much lag.  They may have been xhosted all over creation,
|> but it didn't seem to hurt them much.  I think the players on
|> both sides agreed it was a very fun game.  Don't try to compare
|> that game with the GB vs LAR game.

the TWNN game was definitely more fun.  i had our best lineup confirmed for the
game.  the GB game, however was a headache.  even during the first 1.5 hours when
we were up 3 planets, i really wasn't having that much fun.  the constant
ghostbusts (a large number of which were due to the Berkeley net, i may add)  and
lack of coordination wore me down.  we played the last part of regulation (in
which GB came back to tie) with only 5 first stringers.  we lost armies in a
planet "refund".  they lost armies during ghostbust.  their base drifted off into
kli space, etc. etc. etc.  

USC lag:  i have heard that somewhere in the USC net this August a neat
connection was born which sometimes shuts down for like 5 seconds at a time,
every 30 seconds.  it is not a priority problem to the computing services people,
for obvious reasons (hey, who cares if my email, or ftp has a 5sec burp in it) we
even know who's capable of getting it fixed, but i don't have the guts to explain
to the guy: "um... we need it fixed so we can play netrek"  intra-USC packet loss
ranges from minimal to "jesus i can't believe Calvin's a couple of buildings
away." Playing outside USC can be, but is not always, hell.  it's not the lag,
it's the "unknown packets", core dumps, freezes, and ghostbusts.  Let it also be
known that only 3 of 8 first stringers are from USC.

since John Sin (UCLA sysadmin) seems to love us :), it doesn't seem likely
that games like the first GB at LAR game, will have to occur again.

Crunchy "can we please drop this now?" Frog
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR Proposal:  Remote Option Window.
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:31:02 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov17.220443.9102@colorado.edu> sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Mad DDogg) writes:
>Proposal:  Let it be possible for someone to open an Option window
>for any player who does not have a .xtrekrc file.

Look, you can deal with all of this stuff by having a good set of defaults,
like a default mapped message window and default fast galatic map updates.


If you really want to get carried away, how about:

    NBR Proposal: Remote Control Options

    At any time, a player with a rank of Commodore or above can grab the
    controls of a player with lower rank and do whatever the hell[*] he/she/it
    wants, including sending a big fat 'Q' and/or obnoxious messages.

[*] ObProfanity

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: hadley@codes.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: netrek.atd.ucar.edu - EXPLANATION
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:56:51 GMT

In <1992Nov19.202628.14311@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow) writes:

>>There is a weird problem with the server that causes everything to just
>>hang every now and then; I have never been able to track it down.

   popen() popen()!  Comment it out!  :)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi)
Subject: Re: GB vs LAR lag
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:39:50 GMT

In article <1ekk53INNo8b@sal-sun133.usc.edu> echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.032959.13823@netcom.com> genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi) writes:
>>In article <1eh73nINNjme@girtab.usc.edu> rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri) writes:
>>>a) LAR - GB @ calvin:  Utterly cruddy lag (15% loss); 19-1, LAR
>>>b) LAR - GB @ ksu: Regular calvin lag for LAR; 11-8, GB
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Hello?  Have you been awake?  The game was played at UCLA, with
>>most of the USC/UCLA players playing from the local net.  That
>>means the "best-possible-net-connection-in-an-INL-game".
>
>Hello?  Have you been awake?  The game was played at UCLA, but the clients
>were being run from USC and displayed on the UCLA workstations.

Incorrect.  Why would anyone want to xhost their displays from USC
while playing at UCLA to UCLA???  They did NOT xhost.
All of 'em logged in from guestxx@xx.UCLA.EDU. for the game.  
Are you referring to the game against TWNN???

Ron, don't you mean that b)LAR-GB@ksu to in fact be
b)LAR-TWNN@ksu....  Our 2nd game was played at UCLA with most of
the players actually playing from the UCLA local net.


Gene
From: horde@reed.edu (Mr. Heiji Horde)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Character customization
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:28:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov16.212818.14553
Organization: Twisted Genius Rehabilitation Center, a Division of MHE

In article <62091@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu writes:
>Someone else mentioned the idea of digitized pictures of players.

Say...who has the disk space? This could be an...interesting idea. I know
  that certain MUDs have done this. There was also some overseas site
  doing it for IRC. Is it time for netrek to start?
Hey, I can just pull my gif off of ftp.math (and that ain't @ reed.edu). :-)

	-KreelScum/KnightRaven

-- 
==============================================================================
  Mr. Heiji Horde   (Unix Systems Programmer, Reed College)   horde@reed.edu
     All insane acts are done in affiliation with Madd Hacker Enterprises
    Remember, a life of death and destruction can be good for the soul.
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)
Keywords: READ THIS READ THIS READ THIS READ THIS
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:27:57 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <By5sCC.4M.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
>Jim Reisman writes

>1)  The current INL scheduling provides a random chance of good teams  
>always playing bad teams.  Not only does this screw up playoff rankings,  
>but this causes much less fun games for all concerned.  Why did FLEE (a  
>first time INL team, with no member having tournament experience) play 3  
>of the top teams as its INL scheduled games?  Why did TWNN (a number 1-4  
>INL pick) play 4 teams that they genocided?

Hmm, I remember 3 teams that we genocided.  LAR was definitely not a
geno.

[deleted rest of post]

Why do you assume that only 4 teams should make the playoffs.  I can easily
count more than 4 teams I would like in the playoffs...
(in no particular order)
IC, SS, TWNN, GB, LAR, XG, LaggU (they did go 4-0)

I'm sure that there are others that I'm forgetting...
Make any preseason schedule you like.  Ideally, the schedule would place
similarly ranked teams against another. Teams don't like to be beat up
by a monster, powerhouse team.  Monster teams also would rather play a
competitive game as opposed to a sure geno.

The *only* rule for making playoffs is that if you ever get geno'd, you
can't make the playoffs.  This could be expanded perhaps to saying that
a team must, on average, control more than 3 of its planets at the end
of a game.

A team that gets geno'd will probably do very poorly in the playoffs, and
a team that can't hold more than 3 planets per game is also probably not
well suited for the playoffs.

What is the preseason for?  A chance to have fun and experiment with
strategies while also knowing that a bad opening or other strategy won't
knock you out off the playoffs.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Chris Mojica)
Subject: Anyone out there know if there is still a foghorn clone
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:22:56 GMT

I know that foghorn was a joke to some, and even though I am a Captain now
I found it fun being able to have 2 SB per side and the other 
exagerations Foghorn had.  If you know of a Foghorn style clone, if you would
send the the site address.

Thanks,
Chris

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Email: thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu | Computer and Technologies Theme Prg|
|        pcmojica@eos.ncsu.edu          |   North Carolina State University  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 19 Nov 1992 19:04:21 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov19.235851.27937@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>In article <1eh7qaINNk1l@girtab.usc.edu> rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri) writes:
>Yes, you and everyone else in the INL is fucked, until the INL disallows
>servers from crappy regions of the net, which it probably won't.
>I repeat:
>OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SUFFER BECAUSE YOU DO.  
>OTHER TEAMS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO LOSE GAMES DUE TO TOTALLY UNFAIR LAG
>CONDITIONS.

Therefore, schools with 'real' connections play in the tournament with
the bonus of never having to play with a bad connection.  Schools like
Reed and USC are doomed forever.  Play your favoritisms well.

>Note that you could go to UCLA for every game.  This is not realistic, 
>but it could be done.  And it would have to be done if the INL instated 
>the ban mentioned above.

I'm sure you'd enjoy having to go to Stanford for every netrek game you'd
like to play, too.

>>Hey, Mr. Worley, it's only ONE goddam game each team has to play at calvin.
>>We have to play HALF of our games outside of it.  WHO gets hurt more?
>I don't give a shit how your connection hurts you.  I wish you would 
>understand that.    Your connection is your problem, but it should not
>be someone else's.

I wish you would understand this:  Our connection is our problem, and it is
yours if you come play with us.  Deal with it or forfeit.  We deal with it,
every game we play away.

You want the INL to declare USC off limits?  Go ahead.  If it passes, it
passes.  We'll all join at-large teams and then shove torps down our
opponents' collective throat.  And you will be happy.

>What if SLIP was my only interface to the net (kinda like this crappy
>router is your access to the net)?  If I wanted to play, I would have to 
>set things up this way.

Then people would have to take it.  After all, you'd have to play thru SLIP
to the rest of the world and then probably lose all your games.  Tough, but
if you want to play, that's it.

5150
From: amueller@teak.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller)
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:13:52 GMT

	< deleted stuff about deleting >
>[All his characters deleted?...]
>
>Wait a sec.  Exactly what did he do that was worth deleting all his
>characters over?  I've fell to scumming on a few occasions, just to have
>some fun and see what kind of stats I could get.  While it can
>be annoying, I don't see it as being wrong unless you're playing the ships
>on both sides.  And if he took 170 planets in 2 hours, he HAD to be
>helping his team some =).
>
>I understand that it's up to the god of a particular server about what's
>right and what's wrong, but if I invest x hours to build a character to
>a certain point; I like to think it won't be destroyed at god's whim.
>IMO, you could have at least given him a warning.
>
>>Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
>
>Porkchop / Longshot
>           ^^^^^^^^- Yes, I've scummed a *little* =)

	SCUM ??? SURE, WE ALL SCUM AT SOME POINT. IF I HAVE 5+ KILLS AND
	I'M HIDING IN BACK TILL I CAN COLLECT ENOUGH ARMIES TO TAKE, I
	GUESS YOU CAN CALL THAT PLANET SCUMMING. BUT 170 PLANETS IN 2 HOURS
	MEANS HE WAS ALL THE PLAYERS ON BOTH TEAMS----WRONG  WRONG  WRONG
>
>-- 
>Greg Dearing
>Email: Dearing.2@osu.edu


==============================================================================
Andy                           | I remember now
amueller@cis.ohio-state.edu    | I remember how it started
                               | I can't remember yesterday
bloodwing                      | I just remember doing,
:MINDCRIME                     | what they told me...told me...told me...
==============================================================================
From: blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu (Jon Blow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NIT bloodbath: GB vs XG
Date: 22 Nov 1992 10:10:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: graft.berkeley.edu

Overall, the lag was pretty even, I think.  There were occasional packet
drops of those important commands we all love (shields, cloak) toward the
beginning of the game, but they pretty much went away toward the end,
and they seemed to be pretty equal on both sides.

Though I may be wrong, I believe that this game embodied several INL firsts:

  First dead-even tie (or first tie at all, actually)
  First BASE-ON-BASE SLUGFEST TO THE DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                            ^^
                                            You just can't put enough
                                            exclamation points here.

Of course, one might argue that it was an NIT game, not an official official
INL game, but hey, don't pick nits and they won't pick you.

I think ZZ's summary of the game left out some of the really important,
funny symmetry.  When there were about 30 seconds left in overtime, the
game was tied, 10-10, with each team owning their own space.  The XG
fleet was rushing to the right, where there were a couple GB defending, and
the GB fleet was rushing to the left, where there were a couple XG defending.
GB took Capella and XG took Organia with about 4 seconds left in the game.

It looked really neat on the galactic map.

  Hell Peacock
From: JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INHL Exhibition Game: IT'S A TIE!!
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:05:27 GMT
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


  Well the 1st International NetHockey League Exhibition
Game is over. The result: A 7 to 7 Tie!!

   Wow, what a hockey game. Orions and Klingons were never
more than a goal apart for the length of the game. Pucks
were narrowly missing the goal post, and barely hitting
the sides of the cage.  Bav or Bazooka Joe (goalie) were probably 
the Kling MVPs.  Unfortunately, the game does not presently keep
stats.

   I think organized hockey games have potential. I know that
we haven't begun to tap the possibilities of hockey team
strategies. I hope that we can have a league, or organized
hockey clue games, next semester.

   I wish to thank the players for showing up to test the new
format. Twelve out of the Fourteen players listed were able
to make it to the game. Thanks to bav for setting up the
server.

   However, now I have to go to the hospital to have this 
massive head wound stitched.


Jim Reisman
Hockey-ikki   
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wk5w@brain.med.virginia.edu (William Katz)
Subject: INL changes, NIT, etc
Organization: Nobel Institute of Angrification
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:45:52 GMT

What's going on with the NIT and championship matches?  Can someone post
a tree with the stuff .. and maybe odds, etc :)

In article <1efdv9INNff0@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>In article <SLS.92Nov18182416@batcomputer.aero.org> sls@aero.org (Sam Shen) writes:
>)2. Get rid of sudden death overtime.  Just have a 15 or 30 min
>)overtime period.  Sudden death makes sense when scores are few and far
>)between (like in baseball), but in netrek planets change hands fairly
>)quickly (more like basketball).
>
>I personally like sudden death; I think there would be far too many
>ties with an n minute overtime.  Note that basketball just keeps
>playing until someone wins; I don't think that's an option for netrek.
>

I don't think there would be too many ties, and ...
What's wrong with a tie?  If after 2 hours two teams are close to even,
they are relatively "tied" teams, especially when you consider that
"teams" can only have 8 of 10+ players on at one time and the verdict
changes occasionally with different team compositions.

-Vorpal Gandhi (a.k.a. Commodore Man In Black)
 Angry Men!!
From: adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu (Alan D. Cabrera)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA Clients are cleared!
Summary: Apology to Robert Hill
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:37:05 GMT
Reply-To: adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University

I'd like to publically apologize to Robert Hill for calling his
personal email message condescending.  It was boderline, if at all.  In
any case, it doesn't give me license to act the way I did and I should
of brought it up with him personally if I had a problem.  I'd also like
to thank him for discussing it further with me personally rather than
continue my petty flame vendetta.

I'd also like to apologize for wasting this group's time for discussing
it; I have become that what I detest.  Yikes!

Sorry.


---
Alan Cabrera				internet:  adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu
Computer Laboratory			phone:     (517) 353-3027
Michigan State University		fax:       (517) 353-9847
514 Computer Center			bitnet:    CABRERA@MSU
East Lansing, MI 48824
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman)
Subject: Re: Sunday Night Hockey
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 04:04:25 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

jxh@math.ksu.edu writes:
> JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman) writes:
> >- There was some discussion of whether Goalie Pelting should be allowed.
> >This is when a nominal twink can chase a good goalie from the net by
> >constantly fighting with him, no matter the situation. I would like
> >either an offsides rule, or having one assigned goalie be invulnerable 
> >while (s)he is in the proximity of the goal. However, this has been 
> >discussed before without reaching a consensus opinion.
> 
> How about a goalie box?
>
Reader Digest (Abridged) Answer:
Yes, I want, I want.  Most experienced goalies want.  But bav (and others)
no want risk change. We no get.
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 18 Nov 1992 10:50:36 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov18.083746.25731@cs.ucla.edu> jsin@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Jonghoon Sin) writes:
)
)Just for the record, I didn't say you said any such thing (re-read it
)below).  But it's so tempting to believe it that I don't see how you 
)can blame Rob for thinking it out loud.  (Holubism, I like that :)

I am the captain of my team and am the only one who had any communication
with the captains of LA Riot.  If anyone said something like this,
it would have been me.  I did not say anything like this.  If someone
told you this, I would like to know who and why; I don't take slander
lightly.

)Game on calvin would not have been stupid.  Game on KSU by running netrek
)on USC and having them display on UCLA is stupid.  Game on a night where
)both CERFnet and BARnet were having trouble and not complaining about the
)lag just because you won is stupid.  

Oh, yeah, that first game wasn't stupid at all.  It's not stupid to
have to lock on to a planet 4 or 5 times as a scout bomber, and still
miss it a fair amount.  It's not stupid to get a phaserlock and have
the cloaker get away from you because the server lost your maxwarp
packets (yes, plural).  That first game was just loads of fun, why
don't we try it again?  Hey, I bet I can set up a server on the OCF
here, we could play there.  There are 2000 active users going through
2 gateways, but that won't make the game stupid.

)Saying that LAR deserved your team's comments merely because of calvin's
)lag is downright ridiculous.

The point you are missing here is that during last week's game, 
ghostbusts were going to be a problem; if CERFnet and BARRnet are
both flaky, there's no option for an LA-Berkeley game.  During our
first game, you guys decided to play on a server that you knew
ahead of time has nasty lag in the best conditions; I considered
this a very unsportsmanlike decision.  Not 'cheating', but unsportsmanlike.
And note that I didn't say anything at the time; I am only speaking
up now because of the incredibly arrogant attitudes some of you
are displaying.

Fortunately, more intelligent heads prevailed for the rematch.  Between
your posts and 5150's, LA Riot's attitude would seem to be "We are going 
to insist on playing our games on the server with the worst lag in the 
continental US, and we're going to get all bent out of shape if anyone
complains about it."  I realize that this is not the attitude of the
whole team, and I thank those of you who desired a quality game more
than a win.

But you, personally, can go to hell.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:48:36 GMT

"Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
| It calls the whole validity of INL ratings into question (if it isn't
| in question already).

 Oh, I don't think there's any doubt about the validity of the INL
ratings -- there isn't much.
 Examine the raw ratings of the top few teams from this season for an
example, and contemplate that with a few changes there could have been
two 4-0 high-planet-rating teams in the west (GB and LAR, say).
 The scheduling introduces *much* too much noise into the ratings
for them to mean much, especially when they're randomly determined.

--
	When we get calls from faculty and staff regarding problematic
	software, we always ask if they have a backup.  We got this
	*classic* response today "Well, I thought I had a backup, but
	she refused to type it in again..."	- Lou Anschuetz
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek