HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: US Electorasl system (Re: Boxer Campaign Needs Your Help!)
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:47:31 GMT
Reply-To: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va

In article <19863.2af6bd8e@ul.ie>, kellyc@ul.ie writes:
|> In article <1992Oct29.003822.21972@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
|>  
|> > BBC, crossing out Gore while voting for Clinton.
|> 
|> 
|> Can you do that and still keep your vote valid?
|> 
|> In this country, any mark on a paper other an expression of ordered preference 
|> for a candidate would be invalid. When the returning officer sits downwith 
|> candidates agents to sift through the `doubtful' papers, deciding whether or 
|> not they are valid, there are regular rows about this kind of thing.
|> 
|> And, while I'm at it...I know that today's election is strictly to the 
|> electoral college, and that formally the new US president won't be elected 
|> until next January, but what is/are the system(s) used _within_ the individual 
|> states to elect the members of the electoral college? Are these the same across 
|> the US or is it like the elections to the European Parliament where each state 
|> uses its own method?
|> 

Technically, each state could propose its own rules for elections of 
Electoral College electors.  There are some provisions in the Constitution
which override state law, specifically requirements for universal suffrage of
those over 18.  In almost all states, the election is for the state as a whole,
and a plurality elects the proposed electors for the appropriate candidate.  In
some states (only a few), there is a district system.  The electors are 
technically not bound to vote for the candidate they nominally support, but
in practice they almost always do. 

|> And furthermore... during the last US presidential election I saw an article 
|> on the other candidates running for president (The US equivalent of the 
|> greens, Sinn Fein, The Raving Looney Party, the Communist Party etc, I 
|> suppose) and it was accompanied by a sample ballotpaper from some state.
|> What I couldn't figure was, that Dukakis' name was on it four o five times, 
|> apparently representing different parties, including the Democrats and the 
|> Liberals.  What was happening, can anybody say?
|> 

I think you saw a ballot for the state of New York.  In addition to the Democratic
and the Republican party, there are also statewide Conservative and Liberal 
parties.  They generally support one of the D or R candidates, and most of the
time the Conservatives support the Republicans and the Liberals support the
Democrats, but this isn't always true.

Remember, the two-party system is custom, not law, and most election laws are
statewide, not national.  In New York they happen to have a four-party (or
more) system.  (Because of the peculiar history of this country, states of the US
are much more powerful and autonomous than the internal divisions of
most other Western countries.)

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Jack's Racist Nonsense (was Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:40:51 GMT

Jess, how can you worry about the opinions of someone who hides  
behind a false name?

To me, it shows either a certain amount of cowardice or at least  
an unwillingness to stand behind your words ... How can I  
respect that enough to offer my comments?

For most people here, race relations is typical coffee table  
conversation ... I can usually tell who really gives a damn.

Donald
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:36:25 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov11.183039.9652@midway.uchicago.edu>,
elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) wrote:

> Now turn on the fan, and insert your head.  

Which head should I *insert* - Dear?

*X*
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:26:06 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


	Uh-oh, wrangling with Owen?  I should know better.  :-)

	Actually, I mostly agree in this case.

In article <17895@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>
>If only the fascist minded radical religious right were like 
>Barry Goldwater. Goldwaters brand of conservatism is not refelected
>in these people, it is twisted and misused.

	I agree completely.  While I'm no fan of his
	particular politics, I find him personally more
	admirable than most of his fellows on the right.
	He appears to be honest, unbigoted -- a rarity
	in that party in his state, especially -- and
	has been notably supportive of his Native
	constituency.
>
>Barry Goldwater was nominated by his party in 1964 at the Cow Palace
>in San Francisco Ca.. In his acceptance speech he said:
>
>"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice, 
>moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".

	Yes, in the abstract, a good slogan.
>
>The liberal press crucified him.

	This is a completely silly statement.  The
	"extremism" he was talking about, was escalating
	the war in Viet Nam.  Granted, Johnson went ahead
	and did so anyway, but the press, liberal or
	otherwise, didn't know that he was going to.
>
>I think it would make a great Queer nation slogan myself.
>:-)

	Heh.

	-R


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
From: excited@med.unc.edu (Wally German)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:48:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: samba.1992Nov5.154807.20530
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology

>Traditional boycotts are passive.  In other words, you hurt who you're
>boycotting because you arn't doing something.  (You arn't buying their
>products, etc.)  What we need are active assaults on the Colorado
>economy, as well as the usual repeal/appeal/sue procedings.  In other
>words, we need to trash the Colorado economy as an example to other
>states so that they can see what will happen if they pass similar
>laws or amendments.

May I make a suggest?  Why not simply move all 'queer' money out of the
state into banks that are located in states that are more 'friendly'? 
This tactic seems to me to be the only one that will work!

Investment money for all businesses come from loans from banks.  Loans
from banks come from money on deposit.  Deposits come from people.  Queer
people!  And since we have the highest level of discretionary spending it
only seems accurate that we would be withdrawing HUGE sums of money out of
the Colorado region.  The banks would be hard pressed to loan businesses
money.  Businesses couldn't expand.  The economic hardship would be traced
to the removal of 'queer' money out of the state.  Success!

FYI:  The largest single depositor in the state of Colorado is a Gay
couple!  

Think about it!
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 13:00:45 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams):
>>>>What about Jack Kemp?
>>Was he finally outed for real?
>
> I meant that if he does run for Prez in '96 he will
> undoubtedly be outed.

darling, if he does run for Prez in '96, he will
undoubtedly get married.
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:57:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.173026.25871@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>
>Let's say that my personal moral belief is to hire only white married
>men who go to my church.  I have 1,000 employees.  I categorically
>reject anyone who doesn't meet these criteria.  Or let's say I have a
>housing project and do the same thing.  
>
>I don't think this should be permitted, and the courts have consistently
>ruled against it.  But you seem to like it.
>

Let's say that I have a store. Let's say that I have a Gay employee and that
the people on this town do not like Gays for some reason. Let's say that
I ahve nothing against Gays but that my bussiness is going straight into
collapse because these people do not buy from my store due to the Gay 
employee.
Should I be able to fire him and start making some money with my store, or
should I go into bankrupcy just because there is a law that says that I
should not discriminate against Gays, when it was not me but my customers?
So, the solution is: Keep the Gay until you both are out of bussiness?



>
>--tom

AAP
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Colorado's Measure 2 effects us all.  What you can do!
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:53:08 GMT

In article <1dcc5lINNqnn@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>
>It is critical at this time to make sure that the judges that will
>decide to override or sustain Colorado's Measure 2 decide to override
>it.  If it is ruled unconstitutional, it is unconstitutional in all
>states.  We should all inundate them with letters reminding them that
>the federal constitution clearly states that not descrimination can not
>be enacted, only make illegal.
>
>It hurts me to politicize the Supreme Court this way.  I always felt
>that it was the one branch that should/could stay objective.  However,
>Reagan and then Bush worked to make it a political entity, instead of a
>scholarly blah blah blah; free of lobbying.

I'd try to keep it *out* of the current Federal Supreme Court, which is
pretty packed at the moment with Nixon/Ford/Reagan/Bush appointees.
The state and lower federal courts are a better bet, and it might be
better to wait until there have been some new appointees at those
levels.
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Boycott Colorado
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 18:19:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Nov5.195019.9931@craycos.com> mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish) writes:
>>   Don't purchase Coors beer.
>
>I have to agree on this one.  Although Coors (the corporation) has
>increased it's presence in the gay and lesbian community, Peter Coors
>(I believe he is the CEO) is very homophobic and gave money to CFV.
>Although my Grandfather was a Vice President of Coors, I've never
>really liked their beer OR their politics.  FYI, Miller Brewing has
>been a VERY big supporter of the community here in Colorado and gave
>quite a bit of money to EPOC.  Buy Miller products and forget about
>Coors.
 
Also for a little added incentive, this last year Miller signed 
a contract agreement with the International Gay Rodeo Assoc. to be 
their primary sponsor over the next 3 years, which means literally
millions of dollars.    Miller is good, and this is bizzare since 
saying this since I work in a drug and alcohol rehab center!

Flapjack
"If the world's my oyster, why am I allergic to Mollusks?

(Also, standard disclaimer about UNM/CASAA, UNM or anyone else
having their opinions reflected through this posting of mine.
And for the PC of my work-place,  Alcohol is not good if abused,
but in moderate quantities can be quite pleasant, even if it does 
kill brain cells.:->)

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:18:59 GMT

In article <12NOV92.13585988@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>There have been stories about him in the Advocate and on MTV.  He
>is very gay-supportive, has performed in gay bars, and is very
>happy to allow the men in gay bars to rip his pants off just
>like he allows women to do the same at non-gay venues.

REALLY!  Ok, does anyone know when he'll be doing a show at a gay bar in 
Indiana???   I have to reserve front row seats now!  :)

Patrick                                      /  
                      /          /          /        
     __      __    __/_  _          __     /         
    /  \    /  \    /   / \    /   /  \   / \        "If you're not having
   /   /   /   /   /   /  /   /   /      /\_/         fun, you're doing some-
  /\__/\__/\__/\__/\__/   \__/\__/\___/ /   \__/      thing wrong." -Patrick
 /
/            Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:31:22 GMT

> stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine) writes:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>Seems to me that all LGB employers in Colorado should
>>dismiss their heterosexual employees forthwith.

>Unfortunately, Rod, the measure is quite specific.  
>
>   "[neither]...homosexual, lesbian or bisexual orientation...
>    shall...entitle any person or class of persons to have...
>    any...claim of discrimination."
>
>I suppose that one could read that to say that hets have yet
>another privilage to flaunt...  They can claim discrimination
>on the basis of sexual orientation.

But what Colorado law(s) provide protection on that basis
now that this amendment has passed?  I thought this
amendment explicitly voided the Denver, Boulder and Aspen
non-discrimination ordinances?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint""
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:57:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov9.175712.15936
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

This is why we don't crosspost to alt.sex.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/              Death needs time for what it kills to grow in
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46286 soc.bi:14689
From: maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: What to do about Colorado
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:45:26 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Nov5.224144.14823@ncselxsi.uucp>, fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher) writes:
> I was sad to hear about the loss in Colorado.  It was strange that we
> had heard so much about #9 in Oregon and very little about Colorado.
> Was it because everyone thought it had little chance to win?  Were
> folks in Colorado complacent?  I guess the lack of news should have
> been a warning signal.  It looks like a lot of folks got mobilized in
> Oregon.  I'm afraid Colorado has some catching up to do.  This should
> be lesson to all of us to not underestimate power of these groups who
> seek to deny us of our rights and dignity.
Maybe I'm just paranoid (although when dealing w/the religious (sic)
right (sic) wing, I doubt it), but I sort of suspect that this might have
been part of the strategy on our enemies' part.  We know that most of the
far-right groups are in touch with each other and support each other.  I
really wonder if they tried two different things in Oregon and Colorado
to see: 1)just how much they could get away with--if OR9 had passed, then
it would seem they can get away with a lot, but since it didn't and CO2
did, they know they can *at least* get away with CO2 measures elsewhere
if not OR9 type measures; and 2)to divert the nation's LGB community's
attention and MONEY toward Oregon and not toward Colorado so that EPOC
did not have the resources of No on 9.  Think about it:  money came from
all over the country to No on 9 (even my mother sent them $100!), while
I think someone here posted that 95% of the money to EPOC came from
within CO.  I read in the news that David Geffen, Traci Chapman, and
Roseanne Arnold all gave money to No on 9, but the only celeb I heard
even make a statement about Colorado was Whoopi Goldberg, who denounced
CO2 strongly.  I think that this is a major, major wake up call to us
nationally.  We need to watch the Christian (sic) Coalition very
carefully to try to figure out their strategy.
> 
> Chuck
> -- 
> Chuck Fisher                                        (800) 359-7997 Work
> ncselxsi system administrator                       (415) 964-2819 Home
> uucp:  ...!netcom!ncselxsi!fisher
> -- 
> Chuck Fisher                                        (800) 359-7997 Work
> ncselxsi system administrator                       (415) 964-2819 Home
> uucp:  ...!netcom!ncselxsi!fisher
--Tina M. Wood
  maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
  maire@drycas.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: ***Accessories!!!***
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:27:09 GMT

Biker jackets.  Black Doc Martens.  Black belts with pewter buckles.

Katie
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Activism on a Neighborhood Scale
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 19:21:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov2.180731.11262@midway.uchicago.edu>
  <1992Nov3.145617.6331@spdcc.com>

BBC writes:
>elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>first considering the risk.  Bearding the bigots in their own dens
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>        Interesting metaphor aside...
>        EEEEEEEEEEK!

Indeed. Two of California's most rabid Repugnantcan twits in
Congress have beards -- Robert Dornan and Dana Rohrabacher. Now,
Bob Dornan (IMHO) ain't much to look at, even WITH a beard, but
Dana makes me wish he didn't have such utterly repulsive politics
-- with a beard, he's a rather tasty-looking cublike beast. (I 
imagine he grew the beard to look less "baby-faced"; he has those
kind of features under his neatly trimmed dark brown beard.)

Personally, I think Bill Clinton would look quite nifty in the
silver beard I imagine he'd grow....
 
()   *********    *****    **
()  *************************.*
() ****** *********** ** *******o
() ******* ********* **** ****`-
() ******* ********* *****
()  ****** ********** ****
() ## *****  ***** ##  ****
() ### *****      ###   ****
() #,,, ***,,,    ##,,,  **,,,
() 
()    Cogito Ursus Sum!
()      -- Dave Lankford, "Bearhunter"
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@clio.uucp (Eugen W. Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Colorado 2
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:58:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.004040.22425@ncar.ucar.edu>
holcomb@sylvester.cgd.ucar.edu (Katherine Holcomb) writes:

>I have pondered for quite a while whether I should post to this newsgroup,
>since I am hetero and read it only sporadically, mostly for the discussions 
>about civil rights (in which I am keenly interested), but finally decided to
>make a few comments about the current situation in Colorado.

I always like to see evidence that someone other than motss are
concerned about this sort of thing.

>--I am a single, professional, *pro-choice* feminist, i.e. in their view 
>I am a nympho-lesbo-castrating-baby-killing-dyke-whore-witch-radical-feminist.

You aren't a next choice, they are already after you.
-- 
   Eugen W. Schmidt/Der Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: A Dumb Question, But...
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:12:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.200746.9690@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>
>The best indication of this is the fact that he only freed
>southern slaves.  There were plenty of slaves in the North
>(especially the border states), and they were not freed by
>the Emancipation Proclamation.  Lincoln was a true-blue
>Republican.

Well yes, but he was one of the better ones.  Remember that he said
(paraphrased from memory), "If I could preserve the Union by freeing all
the slaves, I would do that.  If I could preserve the Union without
freeing slaves, I would do that.  If I could preserve the Union by
freeing some slaves and leaving others in chains, I would do that."

He needed to keep the already great divisions in the North from becoming
more serious.   The Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure,
declaring that only in states still in rebellion as of a certain date
would slaves be freed.  It was an attempt to end the war without
deciding it on the field of battle.  The attempt failed, and thus the
E.P. didn't free a single slave, but it was certainly worth a try IMO.

If Lincoln had attempted freeing all slves, he would probably have lost
Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware and might have lost the war.
Would history have been happier if the South had succeeded in breaking
away?  I don't know.  But one could certainly make a case that he wanted
to free all slaves but chose the preservation of the Union as a higher
good at the time; and none of us can say that _at_the_time_ he was wrong.
-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
"Only the futility of the first flood prevents God from unleashing another."
            --Chamfort, as quoted in Claude Arnaud's {Chamfort: A Biography}
From: holz@adam.fb-inf2 (E. Holz)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: CONGRATULATIONS
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:01:08 GMT
Reply-To: holz@adam.fb-inf2
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Bill Clinton won - Congratulations to all of you.
Let's hope he will keep his promisses.

______
\    /  Eckhardt Holz
 \  /   Berlin - Germany
  \/    holz@informatik.hu-berlin.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:42:03 GMT

Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:
> ... 3% ... 4% ... 2% ... 10% ... 15% ... 2-3% ... 2-3% 
>... 10% ... 95% ... 10% ... 25% 

Please don't use the "%" character in your postings to  
soc.motss.  Any other statistical expression should be
fine.

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California