HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Asimov on postage stamp (was Re: ASIMOV)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:33:42 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <122466@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
>Except in the case of dead presidents, the rule is that someone must
>be dead 15 years before he or she can go on a postage stamp.  So

Well, now someone posted that the time is only five years.  Maybe I made
a mistake.  Does anyone know for sure?

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.misc:1390 rec.arts.sf-lovers:1020
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Re: ASIMOV
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: lll-wink.122389
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.misc
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <5458@kielo.uta.fi> memaso@uta.fi (Markku Sorto) writes:
>Ahem.....
>I'm trying to not to sound disrespectful, but his nearing death was clearly
>to be seen on the quality of his latest (1980+) books. IMHO, they were pretty
>lousy. Although he was one of the grounding pillars of sf, I think that I'm
>not very disappointed that I will not be able to read any new books of his.

Well, I realize that my opinion does not match that of the majority of
people on this newsgroup, but I LIKED several of Asimov's last books.  
In particular, I thought Foundation's Edge and The Robots of Dawn were
quite good.  I also thought Foundation and Earth wasn't too bad,
especially considering it was a theme I had been looking forward to.  I
grant that Robots and Empire, Prelude to Foundation, and Nemesis weren't
that good.

But what really saddens me is that there will be no more non-fiction
or mystery fiction books.  I just LOVE his Black Widowers series, and
I've been entralled by his essays in F & SF for decades.  THOSE were
the things I could never wait to read.  You see, I'm really not a 
science fiction fan.  I'm an Isaac Asimov fan.  I started reading Asimov's
fiction when I had finished reading all of his non-fiction that our local
public library had.  I've read some other SF since, but most of it
just doesn't appeal to me.  That's my fault, I know!  But it's just the
way it is.

In the late sixties one of his F & SF essays was called "Crowded", and
it was about cities' populations.  He said then that he would write
an update to this ten years later.  It was called "More Crowded", and
appeared in the late seventies.  These were among my many favorites of
those essays.  He said he would write another update in another ten
years, but he never did, despite the fact that more than ten years have
gone since "More Crowded".  THIS is the type of thing I regret that he
will never write.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
From: garland@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Orson Scott Card
Keywords: Memories of Earth?
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:56:30 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


	Has anyone read Card's newest?  I can't remember the nae of it but
it's something like _Memories of Earth_.  I guess it's the first of a five
part series.  The blurb went something like: Old Earth had messed up their
own planet, so they decided to create a human colony on another planet without
any Old Earth intervention.  A supercomputer/satellite kept the people of the
New Earth content by controlling what they learned (? not to sure about this)
but now it's having problems.  It needs repairs to its computer core which
only the home computer on Old Earth can provide, so in order to keep the piece
on the New Earth, the satelite must save itself; in order to save itself it 
must give potentially dangerous information to the people of New Earth (space
travel and such).  I guess the people of the New Earth, after getting te
potentially evil technology, get power hungry as well and the New Earth begins
to get a taste of good Old Earth corruption.
	That's all I remember from a quick glance at the blurb on the inside
cover.  If anyone has any other information or corrections (I'm sure there are
more than a few) please post.  I like Card a lot, but would like more info on
this book before I go out and buy it (considering it wwill be a 5 novel series).
	From the sound of it I don't think it has much to it.  I hope I'm wrong.I loved Ender and Alvin and have also read _Wyrms_ and another of his books I 
just can't remember at the moment. Oh well, again if anyone has any info on
his newest -- please post.

kg
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: SG.MML@isumvs.iastate.edu (M. Loughin)
Subject: Re: 'SF' versus <spit> 'SciFi'
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:05:17 GMT

xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>What really gets up *my* nose is pretentious wankers who feel they have
>to compensate for their own insecurity by setting up straw dogs like
>this.  Boy, it sure makes you feel high and mighty to know that you're
>superior to those "infidels" who say "skiffy", huh?

(much name-dropping takes place here.  I deleted it for brevity's
sake.)

> Sometimes I use the term SF, sometimes
>Sci-Fi.  And I've never heard any complaints about the latter except
>from pimple-faced fanboys and pretentious art-geeks.  If you wanna form
>a private club of people-who-only-say-SF, go for it, but I sure won't
>bother to join.
>The only excuse that I can see for this puerile nonsense is that it
>gives people who wanna think they're part of the "in-crowd" an excuse to
>look down their noses as innocent newbies and neofen.  It gives insecure
>a-holes a way to cut down people and try to make them feel bad.  I've
>seen this kind of abusive behaviour, and I want no part of it.  In
>theory, the idea may be fine; in practice, it stinks.


Gee, and I was only going to reply to the SF-only fan, "Aren't we
being just a little up-tight?"  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re:  X-Men
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 05:04:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.073813.22113@intacc.uucp>, zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) writes:
|> Is James Cameron doing Spiderman first or X-Men first???????
|> 
|> I certainly hope he explores 'spider politics' and other biological
|> spider weirdness the way Cronenberg did with The Fly.
|> 
|> I mean.......like the song says...........
|> 
|> 'Spiderman, Spiderman, does whatever a spider can'
 
 I've always been partial to Iron Man myself.
 
 "Iron Man, Iron Man,
  Does whatever an iron can.
  Presses shirts, squashes ants,
  Puts the crease in your pants."
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Why can't people stop taking things so seriously? 
     \_| "All I want is to have my peace of mind" - Boston   
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Denial of Humanity
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:30:40 GMT

dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

>>	Why are you assuming the ability to successfully wage war is a 
>> trait which would be selected against? Perhaps pre-emptive genocidal attacks 
>> are a very successful method of suvival on the galactic stage; if so, we
>> could expect warmongers to persist longer than their victims.

>Let me speculate here...

>I suggest that unless the galaxy is sparsely populated, warfighting
>ability should be quite common.  A galaxy of defenseless populations
>is unstable to takeover by aggressors.  Once aggressors dominate,
>loss of warfighting ability is also selected against.

>The stable equilibrium is a dense population of fiercely territorial
>civilizations, since attacking a competent defender is likely to be
>unprofitable.  However, that defensive ability could be easily turned
>to offense against a civilization such as ours.

	An interesting lesson can be learned from a computer programming 
exercise I once read about.  A group of students each wrote a computer program
that used any method desired to react in the following situation:  two 
two computers would pair off, and have the option of 'trading' with each other
a certain number of times.  The catch was that you don't know whether your
partner has given you anything yet when you make the decision to hand over your
goods.  So you can either trust it, and give, or not trust it (or try to get
the advantage) and not give your goods.  Naturally, there were many differnt
types of programs.  However, when they were paired off repetitively, the more
'agressive' ones (more likely to try to trick their opponent) weren't 
necessarily the most succesfull.  Their prey (more trusting programs) were out
competed, leaving mostly untrusting programs to pair off.  However, these 
obviously only worked well when paired against a trusting program, because they
couldn't get anything out of an untrusting one.  The most succesfull programs
were those that treated others fine _unless they were betrayed first_.  If we
think this is a good analogy for alien civilizations, perhaps we sould assume 
that the 'stable equilibrium' will include mostly civilizations that do not 
attack others, only defend themselves.

			Josh Hopkins
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: SFWA classifications (was Re: Awards procedures)
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:27:09 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:

> Chuq> == Chuq Von Rospach <chuq@Apple.COM> 
> Chuq> To be an active [SFWA] member, you have to have sold one novel or
> Chuq> three shorter pieces to professional markets. Other classes
> Chuq> (affiliate, associates, institutional, et al) can't participate.

>What classes are there, and what are the qualifications (including dues,
>especially for any classes that are of the form "radiate at about 37 C
>and pay us $x/yr").

Well, I have my handy-dandy SF(F)WA Directory in front of me. Membership
Classifications are:

Active: full membership. Votes on Nebulas and on organization officers.
  can hold office. Receives all SFWA publications.  Three professional
  short stories or a novel.

Associate: Doesn't vote. Receives all pubs. At least one short story,
   but not qualified for active.

Affiliate: Doesn't vote. Receives the Bulletin but not the Forum (receives
   the NAR until it merges into the Forum later this year). No sales, but
   a professional affiliation to the field (editor, reviewer, agent, etc).

Estate: Doesn't vote. Otherwise same as class of former member.

Institutional: Doesn't vote. Receives Bulletin and NAR. 

As far as dues, I have no clue. See, I'm a life member, so I don't pay
annual dues. Besides, they change yearly in July. I think they're somewhere
around $50 a year for active, less for affiliate.


-- 
            Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, Enterprise Products Support
            chuq@apple.com | GEnie:CHUQ & MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ
               Book Reviewer, Amazing Stories =+= Member, SFWA
           Editor, OtherRealms =+= #include <standard/disclaimer.h>

And lo, though I travel through the valley of the archetypes, I shall fear
no evil, for I know that the author can't kill me off for at least another
150 pages, no matter how stupid or trite I become, or he ruins the book.
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Coolest SF Character  (was Re: Even more things vs.things)
Keywords: coolest, sf, character, Blake's 7, Avon
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:30:13 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL


In article <Apr.6.23.23.28.1992.25844@remus.rutgers.edu> krebs@remus.rutgers.

>Finally, who's the coolest S.F. character. Not most powerfull or strongest o
>anything like that , just the Coolest Person In Sci-Fi.
>

How about Retief?

(If your mail bounces use the address below. My map entry is new.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: mvp@hsv3.uucp (Mike Van Pelt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Denial of Humanity
Keywords: fnord
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:54:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Video 7 + G2 = Headland Technology

In article <1992Apr13.042023.5971@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws5.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>Morality in alien terms... We sort of seem to be assuming to a large extent
>("we" as in humanity) that aliens will NECESSARILY have a similar morality;
>ie. preservation of life, hard work, no nudity, etc. However, when you
>consider the range of moralities on THIS world, it becomes more complex...
>
>There probably ISN'T an "absolute morality" (regardless of what certain
>folks from North Carolina + Virginia might tell us), especially on a
>multi-civilizational level... Still, Mike's right -- just because the 
>aliens might have adapted mind control as a societal "advancement" doesn't
>mean that WE should. 

Well, one 'absolute', if you will, is that the aliens will have to have
some standard of behavior that promotes their survival.  Otherwise they
will not have survived in the long run, and won't be around long enough
to contact us.  So, preservation of (their) life is a given.  Hard work,
well, interstellar travel isn't easy, so either they have this one,
or they stay home glued to the 3V set and don't contact us.

A nudity taboo is far more questionable.  This is highly variable even
among human societies.  But certainly there would have to be some
standard of sexual behavior that provided for the propagation of the
species and the care of the young, whether their system otherwise looks
anything like any of ours or not.  (Of course, much of our current
society's sexual behavior neither provides for the propagation of the
species nor for the care of the young.  As Robert Heinlein pointed out,
this is self-correcting in the long run.)

-- 
Mike Van Pelt                     Will your long-winded speeches never
Headland Technology/Video 7       end?  What ails you that you keep on 
...ames!vsi1!hsv3!mvp             arguing?    --    Job 16:3
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: "SF" versus <spit> "SciFi"
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:43:39 GMT

cm325d19@socrates.umd.edu (cm325d19) writes:

>This is as bad as the people who argue about how one should refer to
>the Society for Creative Anachronism.
>--

yes, but an appropriate time to bring it up. Didn't the good Doctor mention
the SF vs. SciFi thing in one of his articles? (referring to 'scifi' as
_cutsy_ , as I recall - but I may be wrong 8-)

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: maven@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jim Baltaxe)
Subject: Re: Aggressive civilizations (was Re: Denial of Humanity)
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:54:09 GMT

In article <968txgc@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
> I contend that no stable equilibrium is possible. The only way that a 
>group of aggressive civilizations could coexist peacefully (hm, bad 
>choice of words - let's say in a state of cold war) is if they had almost
>identical levels of technology. And that, given the number of variables
>involved in the development of life, sentience and technology, seems 
>pretty darn close to impossible. Carl Sagan pointed out how the Europeans
>trashed the Central and South American empires with only a few centuries'
>difference in technological development - less than an eyeblink on the 
>evolutionary scale. And Niven and Pournelle in _Footfall_ showed how a 
>technology a century (or less) ahead of today's could make all of Earth's
>vaunted military power look pretty useless. 

The time contrast needn't be even that great, unfortunately, look at
Desert Storm - smart bombs down a ventilator shaft vs. SCUDs? Besides,
a Balance of Terror may be an equilibrium, but stable?




-- 
Jim Baltaxe - jim.baltaxe@vuw.ac.nz
Computing Services Centre - Victoria University of Wellington - New Zealand
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Time is such a valuable commodity because they're not making it any more.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Coolest SF Character (was Re: Even more things vs.things)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:45:40 GMT

No, no, no, no!  You're all *wrong*.  The coolest character in
sciencefiction is Nadreck of Palain Seven.  All the folks you guys
have been mentioning have body temps of over 300 Kelvin--they aren't
even in the running.

	--Hal
-- 
=======================================================================
Hal Heydt                    |    Vegetarians eat vegetables.
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |      
510-823-5447                 |    I'm a Humanitarian.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: csmith@onetouch.COM (Craig Smith)
Subject: Re: Coolest SF Character (was Re: Even more things vs.things)
Organization: MCS/OneTouch, Inc.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:57:36 GMT

>In my opinion, the coolest sf character always has been, and always will be,
>Lazarus Long.

Lazarus Long????!!!!  That amoral wretch??????  Who has nothing better to
do than be self-indulgient?  Give me a break! I'll take Michael Valentine
Smith any day!
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: Craig Smith                                         csmith@onetouch.COM ::
:: Columbus, OH                                  ...!uunet!onetouch!csmith ::
::::::::::::::: "Life is a fulltime occupation."--Gene Kalman :::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Editorials, cartoons, etc. about Asimov
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:05:22 GMT

In article <122185@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
|> 
|> There have been editorials in the San Francisco Chronicle, the San
|> Francisco Examiner, and the Peninsula Times Tribune (Palo Alto, CA).
|> The Los Angeles Times had an article on Wednesday which discused how
|> lots of scientists were influenced by Asimov's work; Marvin Minsky was
|> quoted extensively in it.
|> 
|> Any others?  
  
 Andy Rooney's column which appeared today dealt with Asimov. It's interesting
in that Rooney only read two of Asimov's books, neither of which were SF. It 
deals more with Asimov on a personal level.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Why can't people stop taking things so seriously? 
     \_| "All I want is to have my peace of mind" - Boston   
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: mfterman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: Denial of Humanity
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Keywords: fnord
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:23:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.005437.16098@hsv3.uucp> mvp@hsv3.uucp (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>Well, one 'absolute', if you will, is that the aliens will have to have
>some standard of behavior that promotes their survival.  Otherwise they
>will not have survived in the long run, and won't be around long enough
>to contact us.  So, preservation of (their) life is a given.  Hard work,
>well, interstellar travel isn't easy, so either they have this one,
>or they stay home glued to the 3V set and don't contact us.

True, but this doesn't mean that they feel any compunctions about any
other species' survival. And the method that some species use in dealing
with their young would be considered shocking in human terms. Now, you
might argue that intelligent races are unlikely to procreate in those
methods, but I would argue the jury is still out on that topic. A
system that works may not be considered all that pleasant by our own
standards.

What if a race laid an egg inside some other creature, ala the Alien
films. Now would they particularly view any other race as anything but
an incubator to hold their young? Also, if an alien race came out here
and saw this perfectly usable planet being held by a more primitive
race that was abusing the environment and they needed a planet with a
good biosphere for the settlers aboard their ship, what do you think
they're going to do?

Talking about moral advancement is like talking about advancement in
evolution, utterly meaningless.

-- 
  Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mad Scientist, Priest of Shub-Internet
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
The above text is disclaimer challenged, flaming it isn't politically correct
      "I must be making progress, she's biting my leg." - Martin Terman
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.sf.written
From: tthomas@isis.cs.du.edu (Thor J. Thomas)
Subject: In Memory
Summary: In memorium Isaac Asimov
Keywords: Isaac Asimov
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 04:05:26 GMT

                              Isaac Asimov
                              
                              1920-1992


     Let us all carry his dreams into the future he dreamed so well.







--
 |       Thor Thomas a.k.a. Kerr Avon   Internet:tthomas@nyx.cs.du.edu       | 
 |    -------------------------------------------------------------------    |
 |  DISCLAIMER: As always, should I be caught or killed, the secretary will  |
 |              disavow any knowledge of my actions.                         |
From: cbrunson@scilla.East.Sun.COM (Chuck Brunson - Sun BOS Corporate Software Tools)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Julian May's new book is out
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:41:50 GMT
Reply-To: cbrunson@scilla.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: scilla.east.sun.com

For all you Julian May fans I just saw her new book "Jack The Bodiless"
in a local bookstore ($22.00). I don't have any details other than that
it has to do with the events leading up to the metapsyhic revolution.


---
UPA Masters Team: Red Menace			Chuckie B.
1991 Nationals Masters Champions		Sun Microsystems BOS
BACUL Team: 	  RADial ACTive			chuck.brunson@East.Sun.COM
Boston Area Corporate Ultimate League		Work Phn. (508)671-0527
 You're NEVER too old to play!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: dnadams@isis.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: Space 1999
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 10:24:53 GMT

KidTandy@lorbit.UUCP (Jeff Cornish) writes:
 >Space 1999 was my favorite show when I was way to young to watch 

I always liked it quite a bit as well.  It was definitely lightyears ahead
of certain ridiculous US shows like Duck Dodgers and Cattlecar Galaxitive.

 >I loved the series and I still like it for all of Its faults....
 >the tech wasn't half bad 

Right, their sets and various designs are still some of the very best.

 >and I loved the toy spinoffs 

I still have a die-cast Eagle and UFO Interceptor around somewhere...

 >I even had a Moonbase Alpha PATCH!  ah well...lost to history..

Doesn't have to be, those are still readily available at almost any SF 
or Star Trek convention.  I have my "ALPHA MOONBASE" patch right here.

-{ DA }-

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.sf-lovers