HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Sat,  5 Sep 92 13:35:02 MDT
From: gritton@montana.et.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Vote change?
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu
	<1992Sep4.165806.21139@infodev.cam.ac.uk>

cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk (C.E. Thompson) writes:

> If you are going to allow anyone to change their vote (which is the usual
> convention in CFVs, but not, I think, in the guidelines) then you certainly
> must not refuse to accept a changed vote from this person. It is not the job
> of the vote taker to make judgements about why someone has (re-)voted in a
> particular way. Imagine what that could lead to...

   Good point. That *is* someone's vote that wuld be changed. Well,
maybe this could at least be useful as a guide for other questions
voters may ask, and whether the vot taker should answer.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
Lines: 13
Date: Sun,  6 Sep 92 16:02:44 MDT
From: gritton@montana.et.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.org.lpf.news moderated, comp.org.lpf.talk
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu

jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:

>>Is there someone at the LPF that
>>wants this group and would actually moderate it and post official
>>announcements.

> Here's email from Noah Friedman, posted with permission:
> I have no experience moderating a usenet newsgroup, but I can probably
> learn (unless you would prefer the job).

Good. That's the assurance I wanted. I'll vote yes for both groups.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Bogus newsgroups
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:52:42 GMT

In article <peter.716218367@merlin> peter@merlin.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele) writes:
>I acquired a copy if the "official" list of USENET newsgroups,
>including the standard hierarchy as well as the alt and local
>groups. There are many groups not included in that list (dated
>Sept. 5). For example, alt.feminism wasn't listed, but I know
>this group is an active group. The articles are now being posted
>to "junk" of course. What I'd like to know is is there any sense
>to even bother with trying maintain up up-to-date active file?

There is no such thing as an "official" list of alt.* groups. Alt.feminism
is as legit as any, whether or not it's on a list somewhere. (I'm not 
saying the list posters are not doing things correctly; by definition,
alt.* groups are created by anyone anytime, so it's impossible to have
an up-to-date list.)

I wouldn't bother with maintaing the alt.* section of an active file, 
other than to include groups you or your downstream sites want to read.
For the main Usenet groups, I try to stay fairly current.


-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"When we talk...7% of communication is conveyed by meaning of words, 38% from
intonation, 55%...takes the form of visual cues." John Walsh, Compression Labs
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.best-of.usenet moderated, misc.best-of.usenet.d
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:30:52 GMT

If anyone can explain to me why this group should exist at all --
moderated or unmoderated; in misc, alt, comp, or bionet -- then maybe
I'd consider voting for it.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Alice Berigan)
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:36:22 GMT

JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) says:

>>How about this:
>>
>>       2/3 (67%) of voters must vote YES/RM to kill the group, else kept
>>
>>       100 votes of NO/KEEP will save the group, regardless of 2/3 above
>>
>>That makes it reasonably difficult, and it does bear some resemblance to
>>the current method of creating groups.

> It was my understanding after reading the RFD, that this discussion
>was about finding a procedure for removing *UNUSED GROUPS* which sit
>there month after month with maybe one or two posts, or none.
>
> Yet most of the follow-ups seem to be talking about the removal of
>"unpopular" groups. Why ????????

I never referred to them as that.

> Anyway, the "100 votes of NO/KEEP" suggestion in order to save a group
>from removal is not the answer either. It could be used against small, yet
>*relatively* active groups.

Grr... why do people insist on misinterpreting what I say.  100 NO/KEEP
would override the vote to keeping the group, regardless of the ratio
of yes/no votes.  If 100 votes of NO/KEEP aren't received, then if the
2/3 majority isn't met to remove, the group is STILL kept!

gberigan, on aberigan@nde.unl.edu
Xref: sparky news.groups:17947 comp.sys.apple2:20479
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: CFV: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:16:16 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

tale@ten.uu.net (David C Lawrence) writes:

>In <1992Sep15.152443.14121@ms.uky.edu> kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron):

>   As far as I know, no formal RFD was ever posted for this proposal.
>   None of Mr. Lawrence's last three lists mention this group, and there
>   are no articles on the subject in news.groups.

>This proposal began as comp.unix.apple2gs on 8 July and public
>discussion in news.groups brought the name to comp.sys.apple2.gno.
>I do think a 2nd RFD would have been good.

  The only discussion was on the name; there were no concerns about
anything else in the RFD.  I'll remember for next time :)

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jbn@photon.uucp (Joe Naiman)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.antique
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:45:35 GMT

What's the difference between alt.autos.antique and rec.autos.antique?

Joe Naiman

Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.fan.warlord
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Subject: Re: Question; how to create an alt group?
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:35:40 GMT

Ever sit at your keyboard, reading news, thinking that something is missing
from your life?  You feel unfulfilled.  You could be doing something better
with your time.  In the back of your mind a voice is trying to tell you ...

You want to contribute something to usenet.  Do something altruistic for
your fellow usenetters.  Have no fear, there is something *you* can do.
alt.fan.warlord needs *YOU*

			[ hand points out of screen ]

Take Bob for example.  Bob didn't know it, but deep down he wanted to be
a warlord.  To poke fun at other usenetters and do good at the same time.
What more could a newsie ask for?

In article <V3VsqB2w165w@dogear.spk.wa.us> bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
>batman@batcave.EBay.Sun.COM (Karl Elvis MacRae - Ministry of Silly Walks) writes:
>
>> [karl asks: how do I create a newsgroup?]
>
>[Bob fills him in]
>
>>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>   Karl Elvis MacRae batman@batcave.Ebay.sun.com 408-276-3110  |Steed: Dead...
>>   Sun Microsystems, Milpitas, CA |  I DON'T SPEAK FOR SUN...  |DoD#1999
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> 	      "Come and see the Violence inherent in the System!
>> 		Help, Help, I'm being Repressed!"
>>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>Did you know that your signature was longer than your message? 
>
>--- 
>Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
>Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA 

Ask not what alt.fan.warlord can do for you,
ask what you can do for alt.fan.warlord.

-neilb
Recruiting Officer
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.mystery.detective
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<18ito3INNf3f@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:47:59 GMT

Dan> == Dan Bodenheimer <saint@cats.ucsc.edu> 

 Dan> I have recieved many suggestions for a change in the name of the
 Dan> group. I think that the most encompassing one would be
 Dan> rec.arts.mystery

This is good.  If the traffic gets huge (like the old sf-lovers group
did) you can split books/movies/tv/fandom/manga ;-)
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768        
Xref: sparky news.groups:17942 rec.scouting:3080 rec.backcountry:7147
From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.scouting,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.scouting.activities, rec.scouting.policy
Date: 15 Sep 1992 21:18:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous

jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
>I note that rec.scouting.activities is proposed as an *unmoderated*
>group.  From the example of rec.hunting and rec.guns if you don't make
>it moderated you might as well not bother splitting rec.scouting 
>up.  Otherwise the activists will simply be all over Scouting's ass in
>two sub-groups instead of one top-level one.

In the meantime, the following kill file helps cut out most of
the policy discussion:

	/Newsgroups:.*alt.atheism/h:=:j
	/Newsgroups:.*soc.motss/h:=:j
	/Newsgroups:.*alt.politics.homosexuality/h:=:j
	/Newsgroups:.*alt.athiesm/h:=:j

Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM            He is risen!
    Soli Deo Gloria!                              He is risen indeed!
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Vote change?
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:09:18 GMT
 <Bu2D1n.CFK@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <Bu2D1n.CFK@news.orst.edu>, stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John
Stanley) says:
>
>In article <Bu1vtG.968@news.cso.uiuc.edu> d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart)
>writes:
>>d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) writes:
>>
>>> I am running a CFV for a new newsgroup.  One person voted "No" and made
>>> a comment.  I replied to the comment.  Now, that person would like to
>>> change their vote to "Yes".  Is this okay?
>>
>>I made no attempt to convince the voter to change their vote.  However,
>>to avoid controversy, I will leave the vote as a "No".  I think this
>>should be spelled out in "GUIDELINES FOR USENET GROUP CREATION".
>
>Sadly, you are already in it. From your description of the situation,
>you DID convince someone to change their no vote by discussing their no
>vote with them. Whether you intended to or not doesn't matter much.
>
>Now you say that you will disenfranchise that person because of your
>mistake. Two wrongs do not make a right.
>
>I hope for the sake of whatever group you want to create that the
>numbers come out so much in favor that this indiscretion won't color
>the result. On the other hand, can this one slide by after everyone
>held Alok's feet to the fire for his actions? Is it worse for a vote
>taker to reply to no votes or to say "I hope you vote yes" to a mailing
>list?

 I agree with this last statement. This is one of those
votes that some people are going to be watching very
closely ... including Alok !!  :-)

-- Jose L. Martinez --
From: hans@smab.se (Hans C Larsson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Group for/about/including VME-buses ?
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:35:51 GMT
Organization: Saab Missiles AB, RLD-Gbg, Sweden

As the subject implies, is there a forum where
the VME-bus is discused ?
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
        Hans C Larsson			Email:	hans@smab.se
	Saab Missiles, Sweden		Motto:	"keep it short"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.religion.miracles
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 18:45:32 EDT
Organization: Lost Tribes of Gazebo

In article <190drsINN6mh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:

[About the RFD for soc.religion.miracles]

>I agree.  A group dedicated to a single book?  Sounds
> more like this should be an alt.group.  Who is this
> finch clifton d person?  Would have been nice if he'd
> done some initial inquiries before going formal.

With all due respect: regardless of the merits of this proposal--I'm
against it myself--who finch clifton d is is immaterial.  There are
undoubtedly people on the net who make real contributions that even
the most diehard net addict has never heard of, and even if this is
his first post ever, he has every right to have it heard (as I'm sure
you agree, Francis--please don't take this as a flame).  There are no
net.gods, as someone said, just some people with louder mouths than
others.  Furthermore, it's quite possible that he *did* do some
initial inquiries before going formal; unless you read every group and
subscribe to every mailing list, you can't know.  The net is *big*,
and includes all kinds of obscure little constituencies.

-- 
       Rod Johnson  *  rcj@caen.engin.umich.edu  *  (313) 764-3103
    
                "What I do doesn't happen in a warehouse"
                                          --Jim Dickinson
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mox@vpnet.chi.il.us (William Moxley)
Subject: Re: rec.games.abstract
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 05:26:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.193013.15895@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu (Not A Random Name) writes:
>Well, I think the heirarchy should go something like this:
>
>	rec.games.board (current group, limited to BOARD games)
>	rec.games.computer (Any computer games, NOT home video games)
>	rec.games.misc (Everything else)

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that most computers have their own
game groups, so you wouldn't really need rec.games.computer.  

		William Moxley
		mox@vpnet.chi.il.us
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Why Alok Insists Everyone but himself is Immoral
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:05:51 GMT
 <7305@lib.tmc.edu> <1992Sep14.203519.23870@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
 <bazyar.716521105@teal>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <bazyar.716521105@teal>, bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) says:
>
>  I think what's happening is that Alok simply likes to look at his
>own 'prose'.  It's good for his ego and self-respect. Play along, folks.
>I'll be the first to admit this 'discussion' has gone on far too long,
>but if Alok's ego requires that we fight him, we can tolerate it.
>Perhaps we should have a RFD:"soc.alok.alok.alok" or "soc.alok.knows.best".
>Or wait, NBC beat me to that one; check the new fall lineup.

 Such a group already exists !! It is called:

       alt.fan.alok.vijayvargia

 I'm not kidding, honest !! It *does* exist.

-- Jose L. Martinez --
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Improprieties (soc.culture.tamil ...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:23:05 GMT

In article <6494@armltd.uucp>, dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:
> 
> [I think you meant "biased" in the last three lines above, not "unbiased",
> and am replying on that basis.]
> 
Yes indeed. Thanks for correcting it.

> And, so far as I am aware, you have only presented evidence that he did so
> before the start of the voting period, when it was quite legitimate for him
> to do so. 

Legitimate perhaps ( I mean guidelines wise), but certainly improper.

> If you have evidence that he (rather than his friends) made such
> comments during the voting period (rather than before or after it), please
> make it public. Otherwise, you don't have a case.

I have not been able to procure the requested evidence as I do not have access
to emails/calls etc from and to him.

> 
> >So if you must knock down SCIA vote on this ground (and so it was done), SCT 
> >vote should be knocked down too.
> 
> They only need to be treated the same if the same misbehaviour (i.e.
> campaigning *by the vote-taker* *during the voting period*) occurred in
> both, and you have not yet shown us any evidence that this is the case.
> 

Okay. I will let go the 'similar grounds' argument and I have changed the
subject line reflecting that.

Now, don't you think the vote taker comments before the vote were improper.
Or to be more specific, wasn't it inappropriate for him to select himself
as the vote taker after making such comments ?

Furthermore wasn't it inappropriate for his co-organizers to do 'canvassing'
of votes during the vote using similar lines ?

Now once again this may be legitimate (guidelines wise), but to me
it seems improper behaviour.

Are such improper behaviours on part of the vote taker and co-organizers
not sufficient to ask for a revote ?

Especially the selection of the vote taker was wrong, IMHO.

Are there any guidelines on vote taker selection which were violated ?

> David Seal
> dseal@armltd.co.uk
> 

Alok

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mayne@phi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: REMARKS... misc.support.stop-smoking fails 90:37
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:34:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.152709.13669@edsi.plexus.COM> lon@edsi.plexus.COM (Lon Ponschock) writes:
>
>     The Vote on misc.support.stop-smoking was defeated
>     for the following reasons:
>
>  1.) The numbers of the vote count (fewer than 100
>      yes votes.
>
>  2.) The number of belligerent no votes which were cast
>      for the sake of casting no votes. I can document
>      this in at least one instance.

Is this editorializing/propagandizing disguised as reporting?
1. As I understand it if there were fewer than 100 yes votes that
alone defeats a new group proposal, regardless of the number
of no votes or the reasons people voted no.

2. Who are you as vote counter to classify no votes as "belligerent",
especially if you claim only one instance which you can document?
Isn't a no vote a no vote for purposes of counting? Or do you somehow
give "belligerent" votes more (or less) weight?

>      I have read that belligerent no votes are not
>      uncommon in a Usenet Newsgroup vote and others
>      have whined about this in the past, but it is
>      worth noting.

Whining is the right word for it.

Bill Mayne
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Subject: Re: RFD: news.software.inn
Organization: Penn State Population Research Institute
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 19:25:49 GMT

In article <18s0esINNd1o@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>andy@homebase.vistachrome.com (Andy Finkenstadt) writes:
>: kent@imd.sterling.com (Kent Landfield) writes:
>: >NAME:    
>: >	news.software.inn
>: 
>: I would propose a different name:
>: 	news.software.transport.inn
>
>inn is not just "transport", since you have to deal with things like news
>spool administration and support for the client libraries.  

Sure, and UNIX is not just an operating system, since you have to deal
with things like typesetting, GUI's, and the like.  The idea for
"news.software.transport" has been around for quite a while.  Its
time has come.  "news spool administration" is simply a side-effect
of having to run any news system.  The "support for client libraries"
is just another facet of news transport.  There's no confusing anyone
by calling INN a news transport system.  There's always the issue of
"news storage", but without transport, storage just reduces to being
an archive.

It remains to be seen wether there's enough traffic to support both
news.software.transport.inn _and_ groups like transport.c, transport.b,
transport.anu, etc.  IMHO it's best to leave them all in one group,
since the goal of all this is to maintain a common focus in the software
that gives us Usenet.  The traffic in news.software.b is still quite
manageable.

--Dave
-- 
System Administrator, Population Research Institute    barr@pop.psu.edu
  But you don't cure bad art by locking it all up in one museum,
  you cure it by throwing tomatoes at bad artists.  - Barry Shein
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Date: 6 Sep 92 02:22:04 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <1992Sep5.144752.28362@news.iastate.edu> john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) writes:
>------------------------- cut here for rcmung.c -----------------------

[100+ line C program removed]

That's a lot of work to do:

sed -e '/!/s/[,-].*[,-]/-/' 

Let's see...

$ wc .newsrc
     76    137   2002 .newsrc
$ sed -e '/!/s/[,-].*[,-]/-/' < .newsrc > /tmp/f
$ wc /tmp/f
     76    137   1792 /tmp/f

Of course, I don't put unsubscribed groups in my newsrc at all. There's
only a couple lines in there now that unsubbed because I haven't cleaned
stuff up in a while. So you can do even better:

sed -e '/!/d'

$ wc .newsrc
     76    137   2002 .newsrc
$ sed -e '/!/d' < .newsrc > /tmp/f
$ wc /tmp/f
     63    114   1498 /tmp/f
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.antique
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:14:15 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.

In article <1992Sep8.194535.4952@photon.uucp> jbn@photon.uucp (Joe Naiman) writes:
>What's the difference between alt.autos.antique and rec.autos.antique?
                               ^^^
	           _____________|_______
                   is bogus on many nets
>


-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
	  
Newsgroups: news.groups