HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:41:52 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Apr16.192722.23195@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
} In article <1992Apr15.100056.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu writes:
}}In article <1992Apr10.191445.7960@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
}}
}}		[......]
}}
}}} 
}}} Israel can't ethically prevent the people from administering their own
}}} goernment and then abdicate responsibility to provide for their welfare.
}}} Unfortunately, that unethical action appears to exactly what it's done. 
}}} 
}}} I am simply astonished that Israel actually collects taxes from the people
}}} whose land it occupies. 
}}
}}
}}	I ran into an issue of "Israel Shelanu". A small report at the next
}}	to last page says [... are mine]:
}}
}}		"A liver transplant, the fifth, was done this week
}}		in Hadasa Ein Kerem in Jerusalem. The recipient is 
}}		Ibrahim Salima from Tul Karem, 47. . .
}}
}}		The operation took about 17 hours. It was carried out
}}		under the health insurance program of the civil 
}}		administration . . .
}}
}}	Second thoughts?
} 
} No


	No surprises on tpm. However....



		[....]
 
} In other words, as long as Israel finds it necessary to occupy the West
} Bank and Gaza, it must treat those areas as a welfare state, where the
} resources are administered for the benefit of the people who live there. 



	Is there any idea out there on how to administer resources
	and run a welfare state without taxation?


If
} Israel steps beyond these bounds, the occupation can no longer be justified
} on security grounds. If the resources are, instead, administered for the
} benefit Israelis, the security interests have clearly been replaced with
} economic interests and the occupiers (who were seeking only to defend their
} safety)  become colonizers and should  be rightfully reviled. 


	Why replaced? Why not augmented or something like that?


Of course this
} is a difficult burden on Israel, but it's just the price a country must pay
} in order to be allowed to take away he rights of government and self determination from a people. 


	This is absurd. Do you mean if Israel won't tax the residents
	of the territories then it will be allowed to take away their
	right for self government and determination? 


} Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu


Noam
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:13:56 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <1992Apr15.195927.15326@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.192045.4512@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.184524.13857@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>I think that the two Jewish students were asking for trouble.
>>>They don't have the right to take pictures of other people
>>>without their consent.  Who gives them the permission or the
>>>authority.  The man selling the literature might have been
>>>also asking for trouble by selling these kinds of books.
>>>But are these books outlawed/censored? doesn't he have the
>>>right to do it?  Please keep us informed on the process of this
>>>case.
>>
>>	I think that the Palestinians are asking for trouble by throwing
>>stones and therefore deserve to be shot.  Seriously though, do journalistc
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^
>Do you compare stones with bullets?  How many Israeli policemen
>died from stones and how many Palestinian youth were killed
>by life amunition? Compare the numbers.
>
>>photographers always ask permission to take photos of their subjects?  How
>>about those who do exposes? (sorry no accents on my keyboard).
>>

	Are you blind??  I made that analogy with a good deal of irony.
But tell me, do you compare photographs with fists?  How many people have
died by having their pictures taken, and how many have died by fighting?
Compare the numbers.

							-Manu

>
>First I have deleted the original article, but were the two Jewish
>students photographers for a newspaper? I don't remeber reading that.
>Maybe the original poster can tell us.  Second if they were
>indeed journalists, what does the law say about taking photographs
>of other people without their permission.  Please enlighten us.
>>							-Manu
>>-- 
>>Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
>>Do unto others before they do unto you.
>>"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
>>						-Sir John Bagot Glubb


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:14:45 GMT


Bharathi Jagadeesh (old)
>>Since Israel is the governmental authority in the West Bank and Gaza, it
is
>>the Israeli responsibility to prevent the killing of all residents of the
>>area, whoever the murderers are. It's a shame that Israel's doing its job
>>so badly.

Nora Rivkas (It's the Native American right? Remember you asked me to call
you that?)
>Since you don't want Israel to be the governmental authority there, for
>reasons having nothing to do with how good or bad a job they're doing at
>it, what are you complaining about if Israel stays clear and lets the
>locals administer themselves?

Nothing, nothing at all would please me more than for Israel to stay clear
of Palestine (the occupied territories) and let the locals administer
themselves. It's Israel that can't have it both ways (that is control the
territory for Israel's benefit and then do nothing for the benefit of the
people who live there). 

Right now, unfortunately, the locals aren't allowed to administer
themselves. As long as that's true, as long as Israel continues to occupy
the territory against the will of the people who live there, Israel is
responsible for maintaining law and order, as well as the welfare of those
who live in the territories.  

Israel can't ethically prevent the people from administering their own
goernment and then abdicate responsibility to provide for their welfare.
Unfortunately, that unethical action appears to exactly what it's done. 

I am simply astonished that Israel actually collects taxes from the people
whose land it occupies. 
-- 
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu
Who is that who mumbles in the dark/ who is it that draws his veil across the
stars/ Langston Hughes
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arafat's Plane Disappears!
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:39:00 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:


>CNN just broke the story that Yasser Arafat's plane has disappeared over 
>the Libyan desert.  Updates when I can...

They found it. Everyone is alive including Arafat.
It was forced down in a sandstorm.

You'll probably have heard about it though by the time you read this.

Dave
-- 
 ============================================================================
| Dave Morning                     | "Broon Hee Haw Maw"                     | 
|dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk             |                                         |
 ============================================================================
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Islamic "world" News myopia
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:04:22 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <dfs.702586740@data>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
> Recently, the Islamic "world" news condemned Israel for the deaths of
> four Palestinians following an attack on Israeli forces.  However,
> the Islamic "world" news, as well as the U.N. and "peace" (sic) net
> have been strangely silent about the fate of hundreds of thousands
> of Muslims in Burma (Myanmar.)  There are stories of mass rape and murder,
> and hundreds of thousands have fled to Bangladesh.
> 
> But I suppose that since it's hard to drag the EvilZionistOccupiers (tm)
> into this one, it just doesn't have the zing of an anti-Israel diatribe,
> and thus must be relegated to the background.
> 
> --
>                      |         | "Step up and shake the hand
> David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
> |_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
>  / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
>
_____|________________________________________________________________________

Actually, David, the Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran was
mentioning this news many weeks ago. Only within the last couple of
weeks have I seen any mention of the Burmese government's attacks on
Muslims and other groups in that country. It wasn't until several
hundred thousand had fled the country that I noticed anything in the
U.S. newspaper media. The BBC began reporting on the events in Burma a
couple weeks or so before I saw or heard anything in the U.S. media. The
absence of this news from the "news" is disgusting to me and shows how
narrow-minded and unobjective the media is here.

Brad Hernlem 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: peewee@playhouse.EBay.Sun.COM (Philip H. Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Jordan is Palestine
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:01:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: playhouse.ebay.sun.com

The World Almanac says that Jordan is 77% of the former land of
Palestine.  The Universal Almanac says the same thing.

The pro-Arab readers of this newsgroup dispute this.  Well then,
why don't you write the editors of these respected almanacs and
have them correct this in future editions?  My guess is that
some people already have tried to persuade them to change this,
but the Arab version of history doesn't match the western version.

So for now, JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
	    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:11004 talk.politics.soviet:3476 soc.culture.greek:3383
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Not A Chance, 'Starkey:' The Turkish Genocide.
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:38:00 GMT


<14673@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)

>3. Anything by Hassan Mutlu (alt.garbage.trash.throw.out)

All in all you are just another brick in the wall, 'Starkey.' What
do you have to add?

Source: "A British Source (1916) on the Armenian Question," by Turkkaya
        Ataov, Ankara, 1985.

p. 14.

"Dixon-Johnson relates (p. 47) that bands of armed Armenian volunteers were
 already operating in the country as early as March 1915, and Lord Bryce as
 well as the 'Friends of Armenia' were appealing for funds to clothe and 
 equip them...Furthermore, Tsarist Russia was also arming the Armenians and
 assisting in fomenting rebellion. For instance, the Armenians of Van 
 believing, after the Turkish defeat at Sarikamis, that the complete victory
 of Russia was assured, thought that their opportunity had arrived. Urged by 
 the Russian agents and their own revolutionaries, they rose in revolt, and, 
 as a Times correspondent admits, in an unguarded moment, 'finally captured
 the town of Van and took bloody vengeance on their enemies'. In June the 
 Armenians betrayed the town of Van to the Russian troops. Dixon-Johnson admits
 that 'there were organized risings in other parts of Asia Minor also' 
 (p. 48)."

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:20:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.184524.13857@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:

>
>I think that the two Jewish students were asking for trouble.
>They don't have the right to take pictures of other people
>without their consent.  Who gives them the permission or the
>authority.  The man selling the literature might have been
>also asking for trouble by selling these kinds of books.
>But are these books outlawed/censored? doesn't he have the
>right to do it?  Please keep us informed on the process of this
>case.

	I think that the Palestinians are asking for trouble by throwing
stones and therefore deserve to be shot.  Seriously though, do journalistc
photographers always ask permission to take photos of their subjects?  How
about those who do exposes? (sorry no accents on my keyboard).

							-Manu
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Jewish Students Assaulted
Summary: Two Jewish students were assaulted by a Muslim man.
Keywords: Jews Assault
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:48:39 GMT


                          Jewish Students Assaulted

                            For Immediate Release
           [N.B. This press release was written by Howard Rosenburg.]


	URBANA, IL -- Two Jewish students, University of Illinois Senior in
Engineering Rob Slater, 22, and William Dubin, 23, were assaulted on Saturday
by a participant at an Islamic Culture Society event entitled "Jerusalem: Still
Under Zionist Occupation."  The assailant, a Muslim man in his 30's, was
selling books on the University of Illinois campus, where the program was
taking place.

	The assailant was approached by the two students who had noticed that
he was selling anti-semitic materials.  Titles included "The Case Against the
Little White Slaver" by Henry Ford Sr., "The Greatest Hoax of the Twentieth
Century" by Arthur Butz, and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." All three
of these works contain highly antisemitic material.

	The Jewish students wanted to take a photograph of the table to show
others that these materials were still being bought and sold.  When they
attempted to take the photograph, they were informed by the assailant that he
would have no part in it.

	The students proceeded to explain that why they were allowed to take
the photographs and why they wanted to take the pictures. When the picture was
finally taken, the assailant responded by wrestling for the camera and finally
breaking it by throwing it onto the ground. He then began punching Dubin, the
photographer, and chasing him into the lecture hall.

	The assailant then went back outside and punched Slater four times
sending him to the ground.  He then tried to leave the scene claiming that
his "civil rights of privacy were violated and that he would do it again
[strike the Jewish students]" given the opportunity.  His efforts to leave
the scene failed when another student verbally detained him.

	A few minutes later, the University Police arrived to restore order
and to take statements. The matter has been turned over to the State's
Attorney for further action.

	While the camera sustained serious damage, neither Slater nor Dubin
were seriously injured.

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Security Council Condemns Palestinian Killings in Gaza
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:27:45 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University


SECURITY COUNCIL CONDEMNS PALESTINIAN KILLINGS IN GAZA

UNITED NATIONS, April 4 (R) -- The U.N. Security Council yesterday
condemned violence in the Israeli-occupied town of Rafa where troops
killed four Palestinians and wounded scores of others.

Council members urged all parties to exercise restraint while Middle
East peace talks were under way. The next round of talks is due in
Washington at the end of the month.

A council statement, read by its current president, Simbarashe
Mumbengegwi of Zimbabwe, was agreed after nearly seven hours of negotiations.

Statements do not carry the same weight as resolutions which often are
binding under international law. But they must be approved unanimously.

Israeli security forces killed four Palestinians on Wednesday and
wounded more than 100 in two days of clashes in Rafa, the bloodiest
Arab-Israeli strife in the Gaza Strip for more than a year.

The United States, which conducted marathon negotiations with
non-aligned council members, succeeded in toning down the language in
the original draft.

U.S. Ambassador Thomas Pickering said the statement was a balanced one
and "an effort to stop all acts of violence."

He added: "It refers to all of the deaths and to the whole situation,
including the deaths of Palestinians which are claimed to be at the
hands of Palestinians."

But Israel thought the council had been one-sided by singling out the
deaths at Rafah while the Palestine Liberation Organization regretted
stronger language was not used.

The council statement said members were "gravely concerned by the
continued deterioration of the situation in the Gaza Strip, especially
by the current serious situation in Rafah, in which several Palestinians
have been killed and many more wounded."

"The members of the Security Council condemn all these acts of violence
at Rafah. They urge maximum restraint in order to bring the violence to
an end," it said.

The statement also said Israel must respect the Fourth Geneva Convention
on the protection of civilians in time of war "and to act in accordance
with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council."

It added that "any serious escalation of violence would have serious
implications for the peace process, especially at a time when
negotiations to achieve a comprehansive, just and lasting peace are under way."

Nasser Al-Kidwa, the chief PLO delegate at the United Nations, told
reporters: "On one hand it is definitely a positive thing to have the
council acting."

"On the other hand we were hoping for stronger wording from, the council."

"Hopefully it will have an impact on the behavior of Israeli occupying
forces," he said.

[Arab News, April 5, 1992]
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid To Israel?????
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:52:03 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr8.134413.18993@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>In article <204565@unix.cis.pitt.edu# abas@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jasem Alhumoud) writes:
>#
>#   I am sorry for reposting this article. I did not know that someone
>#else have posted this article with creidt given to me ( I posted this
>#article in soc.culture.lebanon). Any way nothing wrong with reading facts
>#twice. On the other hand THE TRUTH HURTS. Have fun with the article.
>#
>#       Jasem (Dr. J.)
>
>
>The truth may hurt, but the article is not the truth. It begins with
>anti-Israeli and antisemitic propaganda, continues to tell lies (that
>Israelis who kill Palestinians don't go to jail) and has a description
>of an incident which is obviously taken from a sick imagination.
>

Well, Israel is harboring suspects in the terrorist killing of Alex 
Odeh, ADC founder.  I don't know if the U.S. has requested extradition
yet, but don't the U.S. and Israel have an extradition treaty?  I 
would assume so since the U.S. has extradited Nazi war criminals to 
Israel.

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome!)   School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:11000 talk.politics.soviet:3472 soc.culture.greek:3379
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:39:15 GMT
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department

In article <1992Apr10.191445.7960@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:

>Right now, unfortunately, the locals aren't allowed to administer
>themselves. As long as that's true, as long as Israel continues to occupy
>the territory against the will of the people who live there, Israel is
>responsible for maintaining law and order, as well as the welfare of those
>who live in the territories.  

I have yet to hear any official from the Palestinean camp, either the 
PLO or the negotiating team, call for a stop to the killing in the 
intifada.  Quite the contrary, they have promised to continue the 
intifada in it's current form until they have thrown out the Israelis.

One wonders what kind of justice Palestinean Arabs would face under 
a Palestinean administration.  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com    
American-Occupied New York
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast