HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger)
Subject: Re: Digicom PEP support?  (was Re: Info on Digicom Scout+)
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies, ATE division, San Jose, Ca.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:13:09 GMT

Greg Andrews (gerg@netcom.com) wrote:
: gordon@rahul.net (Gordon Vickers) writes:
: >In article <1992Dec8.214412.9158@selway.umt.edu> garion@selway.umt.edu (Jason Curnow) writes:
: >>
: >>The Digicom Scout+ is a v.32bis modem with send/receive fax capacity.  
: >>It includes all of the normal error correction and compresion protoocols
: >>(v.42, v.42bis, MNP, etc.).  It uses a Digicom proprietary chipset, not
: >>a Rockwell as most do most modems in this price range.  
:    [....]
: >>
: >>
: >
: >     I too am quite happy with mine. Mr. Heineke (wolfgang@rahul.net) was
: >  very prompt in handling my order and quick to respond to the difficulties
: >  I experanced after having messed with the factory default settings.
: >
: >    My external Scout+ routinely allows me to connect to a wide variety
: >  of modems in various sites at 14,400 baud and occationally at 12000 baud.
: >
: >    Though I did not get the version that supports PEP, I do connect with
:      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >  out difficulty to our Telebit World Blazer (PEP) at work, at 14,400 baud.
: >
: 
: Digicom is advertising support for PEP?
: 

I find it difficult to believe that another company would support Telebit's
proprietary protocol.

Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies ATE   UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110             Voice: (408)437-5254  FAX: (408)437-5246
From: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: ZYXEL DEVELOPER'S KIT
Date: 19 Dec 92 07:37:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Reply-To: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 

TO: radel@bach.udel.edu
-> I'm calling ZyXEL today to find out what exactly was supposed to be
-> in this package and why it was never released.  Then I will prepare a
-> letter (or petition, if you will) which I will send them.
->
-> If you would like your name to be on it, please send me e-mail with
-> your
 Please e-mail me .Thanks.
                                              
----
Ye Olde Bailey BBS
Houston,Texas
Node 1: 1 713 520 1569
yob.sccsi.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Explanation of V.Fast wanted.
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:46:33 GMT

In article <6566.2b3360a3@hayes.com> tnixon@hayes.com writes:
:They've all promised to upgrade the products to the standard.  What 
:can you do but take their word for it, assuming you just HAVE to 
:have one now?

I'll take anyone's word *if* they're a big enough company *and* they
give it in writing.  Even if the hardware I buy now doesn't eventually
support the real standard, I'd expect such a company to upgrade the
modem by straight swap if necessary.

I'm more worried about whether they'll *charge* (or charge significantly)
for an upgrade in 2 years time when the standard is settled.  No point in
saying 'by our $1000 modem now and we'll make sure you're upgraded' if you
have to pay more big bucks for that upgrade.  Anyone (like Motorola) saying
now that they'll upgrade ought to also say under what conditions.

G
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: question: escape +++  -->  NO CARRIER
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 21:49:34 EST
Organization: Izot's Swamp

sosc1103@wc07.yorku.ca (Ming He) writes:

> When I use +++ to escape on line to command, I lost my carrier.  This
> command working well before.  So I must do something wrong on setting.
> Thus I need to know how to return to the factory setting (using 'AT'
> command?).

   Well, an obvious option is to check the manual.  I can't find a standard
command or S register for 'action on escape sequence' in my ZyXEL, Telebit, or 
Hayes manuals, but I do believe that I saw some such function in the manual of 
another modem I've used (most likely USRobotics or perhaps GVC, less likely 
Compcom - ugh).

   Also, USRobotics' 9600 bps Courier HSTs had some strange limitation on what 
you could do with the escape sequence while connected in HST mode; I don't 
remember the details, but it's possible that the HST will hang up when it acts 
on the escape sequence, even if that isn't what you want.

   If you find a solution, please let me know what it is and what model of 
modem you have... my memory obviously needs refreshing. <grin>

  Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
                Now I've lost everything, I give to you my soul
           And the meaning of all that I believed before escapes me
                  In this world of none, no thing, and no one
                            - Genesis, _Afterglow_
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Rosen)
Subject: Re: GATEWAY TELEPATH @ $1
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 00:23:18 GMT

john.navas@uttsbbs.uucp (John Navas) writes:

>If you will carefully check the ads you will see that the TelePath is
>indeed advertised as a separate product that will only be sold to
>those that purchase or have previously purchased a *separate* Gateway
>computer system (*any* Gateway system).  That is clearly a per se
>unlawful tie-in sales practice.

How is that an unlawful sales practice?  I certainly think it's
limiting themselves to the potential customers they could get if they
opened up sales to anyone (which they seem to have done, according to
your experience).  But I don't see how only selling to existing
Gateway owners is unlawful.  I really don't think Zeos or any of these
other mail order companies that advertise in Computer Shopper are
going to sell me a hard drive or whatever as a separate item.

Mike
--
Michael Rosen						"Time and space
Tau Epsilon Phi - George Washington University		 can be a bitch."
mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu					  -Quantum Leap
Michael.Rosen@bbs.oit.unc.edu or @lambada.oit.unc.edu
From: jim@jimmc.chi.il.us (jim mcnicholas)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Best < $400 modem ???
Date: 13 Dec 92 06:07:00 GMT
Reply-To: jim@jimmc.chi.il.us (jim mcnicholas)
Organization: Prime Time Productions Aurora, Illinois

simon@wotangate.sc.ti.com (Jean-Yves Simon) writes:

> In article 723862378@wuarchive.wustl.edu, hp48sx@wupost.wustl.edu (HP48SX Arc
> >What is the best modem for less than 400 buckazoids ? The Postal service
> 
> Get an Intel SatisFAXtion/400 (internal) ou /400e (external). Great modem.

        <PUTTING ON ASBESTOS SUIT> I have a ZOOM vfx 14.4 and with the
        exception of a couple of BBS'S that I call.  The correct init string
        gets it running really well.
        <I know alot of people think this modem is crap, sorry I like mine>


-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
|jim@jimmc.chi.il.us   |   ...And I believe in long, slow, deep, soft wet  |
|Prime Time Productions| kisses that last three days...good night...OH MY! |
|Aurora, IL. 60504     |        -crash davis to annie savoy in BULL DURHAM-|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: pahonen@hummeri.funet.fi (Paavo Ahonen)
Subject: Windows software for WorldPort 2496
Organization: FUNET
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 07:45:21 GMT

I have got WORLDPORT 2496, an integrated 2400 bit/s modem and FAX. Does anybody
know, if there is software, which makes possible send and receive telefax under
windows 3.x. Any information is highly appreciated.
Paavo Ahonen 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: pre1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Grant Prellwitz)
Subject: Zoom 16550 UART chips
Summary: Uses Startech ST16C550CJ =? 16550AFN
Reply-To: pre1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 08:22:36 GMT

I am running OS/2 2.0, so am very interested in a high-speed modem with a
16550AFN UART.  I have been told that the AFN is important, as it denotes
some bug fixes that were made.  One of the modems I am considering is the
Zoom v.32bis with FAX.  I had an opportunity to examine one recently, and it
uses a Startech ST16C550CJ UART.  The specs on the back of the box just
list it as a 16550.  I presume the first C just denotes it as a CMOS chip,
but what about the CJ?

My main question is whether this includes all the fixes that
were incorporated into the 16550AFN and whether this clone(?) UART will
function as well as the original.  

Is anyone aware of a comparable modem (internal, v.32bis, FAX, $200-@250 
street price) with a true 16550AFN?

Please respond via mail, as I do not frequent this group.  I will summarize
all responses.

AdvTHANKSance,
Grant Prellwitz

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: wolfgang@netcom.com (Wolfgang Henke)
Subject: Re: Prodigy's "Eagle" modem
Organization: Netcom
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:59:29 GMT

Ed Ravin (elr@trintex.uucp) wrote:
: The Eagle modems sold through Prodigy have their default configurations
: set to no MNP or flow control -- this is so that Prodigy users can plug
: them in out of the box and go online.  There should have been a slip of
: paper in the box explaining that.  There's also a sticker on the bottom
: of the modem that explains most of the settings.

No and yes. The Eagle has the *E9 autoreliable V.42bis default register
setting like the Digicom Scout+ modem. The flow control differs a bit
in that the Eagle uses the *S0 no speed conversion as default, but the
Scout+ uses *S1 as default. There are a few other minor differences in
the defaults between the two modems.

My external Scout+ works well with Prodigy just using the AT&F factory 
defaults.

-- 
   _________________________________________________________________________
   Wolfgang Henke     Data lanes not car pool lanes      wolfgang@netcom.com
From: djbpitt+@pitt.edu (David J Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: ZyXEL 5.04 ROM features
Date: 19 Dec 92 17:30:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

My ZyXEL U-1496E with the 5.02 ROM does everything I need of it with one
exception: it often disconnects without warning from a USR I call
frequently. The list of 5.04 ROM features mentions that this ROM fixes an
unspecified problem with USRs, but I need to know whether the problem
that has been fixed is this unpredictable disconnect.

So, can anyone confirm whether the 5.04 will fix the problem I
describe? If so, I will certainly upgrade; if not, I'll save the money
until a new ROM appears that does fix this problem.

Thanks,

David
-- 
Professor David J. Birnbaum         djbpitt+@pitt.edu [Internet]
The Royal York Apartments, #802     djbpitt@pittvms   [Bitnet]
3955 Bigelow Boulevard              voice: 1-412-687-4653
Pittsburgh, PA  15213  USA          fax:   1-412-624-9714
From: RAF@CU.NIH.GOV ("Roger Fajman")
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re:  Looking for V.35 modem eliminators
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:44:26 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> I'm looking for a V.35 synchronous modem eliminator that will run from
> 64 Kbps to 2 Mbps (E1) speeds.

Black Box sells a single-line unit on a special order basis.
Their number is 412-746-5500.

Roger Fajman                                   Telephone:  +1 301 402 1246
National Institutes of Health                  BITNET:     RAF@NIHCU
Bethesda, Maryland, USA                        Internet:   RAF@CU.NIH.GOV

Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:18239 ne.forsale:5501 misc.forsale.computers:43680 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:1973
From: tasha@acs.bu.edu (Mary-Ellen Doherty)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,bu.forsale,ne.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
Subject: Telebit T3000 14.4K baud Modem forsale
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:57:04 GMT
Followup-To: comp.dcom.modems
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: tasha@acs.bu.edu

hi, there

this is for a friend who doesn't have 
access to internet. so email here, and I
will transfer or can him direct at 
(617)329-7700x3037

======================================
Forsale:

Telebit T3000 external modem ---- $500 
it is brand new, and it goes for $647 in
Computer Shopper Mag. This is one of the
best modems money can buy.  It has protocols
V32bis,V32,V42,V42bis,MNP1-5, which means
it can transmit or receive 300baud-14,400baud
(57,600 bps with compression).  All original
docs included, not registered.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: wilken@plains.NoDak.edu (Scott Wilken)
Subject: Request for info: Rockwell Chipsets
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:34:39 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Could someone summarize the known problems with Rockwell's V.32bis chipset?

I am aware that problems exist, but I really dont know specifics.

Thanks!

Scott
-- 
Go FAST!            |  Internet:  wilken@plains.nodak.edu   |     AMA #587126 
Take Chances!       |     UUCP: ..!uunet!plains!wilken      |     DoD #0087 
VF700F Interceptor  |        Bitnet:  WILKEN@PLAINS         |   
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:18302 comp.sources.wanted:5439 alt.sources.wanted:1907 alt.sources.d:1581
From: bill@twg.bc.ca (Bill Irwin)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.sources.wanted,alt.sources.wanted,alt.sources.d
Subject: Re: Multiple sessions PC<->Unix on 1 phone line
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:53:57 GMT
Reply-To: bill@twg.bc.ca (Bill Irwin)
Organization: The Westrheim Group, Vancouver, B.C., Canada

kenton@navaho.cc.bellcore.com (gidewall,kenton c) writes:

: I have heard of some programs that allow you to have several Unix
: sessions/connections going on at once over one phone line.  It is
: accomplished by having a program running on the Unix end and another
: on the PC end that multiplex the different sessions across the line.

A good commercial program that we have been using for over a year
now is JSB MultiView Desktop.  It runs under Windows 3.1 and
allows up to six UNIX concurrent UNIX sessions over serial line
(including modem auto dialing) and several popular networks.  It
also supports Windows application printing on remote UNIX
printers as well as UNIX application printing on local PC
printer.  It does file transfers in both directions, but does not
support batch file transfers yet (contrary to its documentation).

The only real problem we haven't been able to resolve is when the
connection to the host is over a multiplexor (on either a leased
or dial up line), the throughput drops to about half.  We believe
that the packetizing being done by MultiView (which sends ACK
packets back for each one received) is causing double the packet
load for that channel on the mux (which is also packetizing data
for each channel).  It would be nice to be able to turn off
reliability in MultiView when you know your connection is
reliable.  This would eliminate the extra ACK packet traffic over
the mux link and bring the throughput back to normal (or close to
it).

All in all a very good product and a tremendous productivity
gain.
-- 
Bill Irwin    -       The Westrheim Group     -    Vancouver, BC, Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uunet!twg!bill            (604) 431-9600 (voice) |     Your Computer  
bill@twg.bc.ca            (604) 430-4329 (fax)   |    Systems Partner
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm)
Subject: Re: USR Upgrades (Still possible?)
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:57:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.083548.3661@netcom.com> holen@netcom.com (Victor Holen) writes:
>>...
>>I called them recently and was informed that this deal lasted only
>>through the end of October. The salesperson mentioned, however, that it
>>...
>Could somebody post (or mail) phone and/or e-mail to UsRobotics
>support.

e-mail adress to USR. ????@????.???.?? 

Please send me the adress.

/palm@admin.kth.se





-- 
"Destiny makes relatives, selection makes friends."
From: dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Telebit WB Problem
Date: 13 Dec 92 06:03:46 GMT
Organization: New Technologies Group, Inc.  Palo Alto CA

>>there is/used to be a problem with sun systems and telebit modems.
>>basically, you need to increase the time the sun holds dtr low
>>during a line reset.

>This is interesting because the WB has an S register to specify the minimum 
>amount of time for DTR to be low to cuase a modem reset.  The minimum value
>you can stick in that register is 50 milliseconds.

The problem is a bit more involved than that.  What happens is something
along the following lines:

[1] An interactive session ends, or the uucico program closes the port.

[2] The Sun drops DTR

[3] The Telebit notices that DTR has gone low for longer than the time
    specified in the S-register, and starts the disconnection process.

[4] Some amount of time passes as the Telebit tells its peer that
    disconnection is taking place, and the two modems agree to hang up.

[5] The Sun reaches the end of the "hold DTR low" period.  The port is
    released.

[6] Another process (usually a "getty") tries to open the port.  Carrier
    Detect is still high, so the open is allowed to proceed, and the tty
    driver and getty begin to initialize the port.

[7] The Telebit finally gets around to dropping Carrier Detect,
    signalling that the previous connection has dropped.

If you're lucky, step [6] completed before step [7] occurred.  If this
happens, the getty simply receives an immediate hangup signal from the
tty driver, and exits harmlessly.

If you're unlucky, step [6] is only half-complete when [7] occurs, and
the tty driver gets hit by a hangup as it's halfway through port
initialization.  Due to a bug (I infer) in the tty driver, the driver
leaves the port in a zombified state... busy, but unable to be reset.
The port becomes useless (locked up with DTR low) until the system is
rebooted.

Patching the "zsadtrlow" value in the kernel to a nice safe number like
5 or 7 prevents the problem from occurring... it ensures that the Sun
won't try to hand the port over to a new session until well after the
modems have deasserted Carrier Detect.
-- 
Dave Platt                                                VOICE: (415) 813-8917
              Domain: dplatt@ntg.com      UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt
 USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303
From: lars@spectrum.CMC.COM (Lars Poulsen)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: ZyXEL 19.2k question
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:36:02 GMT
Organization: CMC Network Systems (Rockwell DCD), Santa Barbara, CA, USA

In a message of <Dec 09 13:55>, Paul Levin (1:105/7) writes:
> PL>Not only is the 19.2Kbps useless unless you are talking with another
> PL>ZyXel, so is the 16.8Kbps.  USR also has a 16.8Kbps which is useless
> PL>unless it is talking with another USR.

In article <724092191.AA00000@therose.pdx.com>
   Jim.Long@p1.f48.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Long) writes:
Jim>Heck, V.32bis is useless unless you're talking to another V.32bis modem. 
Jim>English is useless unless you're speaking to another English-speaking
Jim>person. And even then....

> PL>The difference is that ZyXel has given out
> PL>it's 16.8 technology to Rockwell International (so I'm told)

Jim>My understanding is that _anyone_ that wants it can have it.
Jim>In my uneducated opinion, Rockwell is perhaps one of the least
Jim>likely to do anything with it (of their own volitiion).

    I don't work for the Rockwell modem group; but I do _use_ Rockwell
    based V.32bis modems in a big way.

    My impression from the rumors that I hear (some of them in
    comp.dcom.modems) is that because everybody is pushing to have their
    own "fast" extensions included in the V.fast spec, we may well see
    a spec with many incompatible encodings to choose from, and a
    startup handshake that determines which ones are common to the two
    modems. Sort of like the relationship of MNP5 and LSW in V.42bis.
    Determining the "best shared protocol" taking into consideration the
    line characteristics will be very tricky, and I would expect many
    problems like "why do my ZyXEL V.fast and my USR V.fast only
    communicate at 9600 bps when my line is clearly capable of doing
    28.8 as evidenced when I put two UDS modems on the same port ?
    The UDS will do 24.4 with both the ZyXEL and the USR ?"

    In this situation, a company improves its own position to get the
    competitors to implement its optional V.fast dialect.

    If this is how V.fast gets written, the users will not be well
    served.
-- 
/ Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer	Internet E-mail: lars@CMC.COM
  CMC Network Products / Rockwell Int'l	Telephone: +1-805-968-4262	
  Santa Barbara, CA 93117-3083		TeleFAX:   +1-805-968-8256
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: chuckb@hounix.org (Chuck Bentley)
Subject: Re: Does a UNIX <---> DOS File Transfer Package Exist?
Organization: Houston UNIX Users Group (HOUNIX), Houston, TX
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:04:02 GMT

For the fastest, most reliable and most UNIX compatable tool to do this,
look to ProYam from OMEN Technology.  Contact Chuck Forsberg
( ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf ) or call him at 503-621-3406.  He's the one
that wrote and supports the zmodem protocol.

I have no interest in the company, I'm just a satisfied user.  I also
feel that this is the most underrated communications program on the market.
If one has any concern for security on a dialin PC, this is the product to
use.

For a demo, call 503-621-3756 and download the demo package.

		Chuck......
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a Codex modem?
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:08:38 GMT

root@xfswob.han.de (xfswob system-administrator) writes:

>I'm really interested in obtaining one of those v.fast modems, too.
>If anyone has a source for those things, please let me know.

When I move to Orlando in May I am considering getting a pair of
these for my PPP connection -- that is if I don't get a cisco and
56kb connection -- of which there is a 10% chance of..


-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
From: jcburt@gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov ()
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: GATEWAY TELEPATH @ $1
Date: 17 Dec 1992 13:36:32 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov

In article <6969.48.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp> john.navas@uttsbbs.uucp (John Navas) writes:
>jcburt@gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov writes:
>
> JN> If you will carefully check the ads you will see that the
> JN> TelePath is indeed advertised as a separate product that will
> JN> only be sold to those that purchase or have previously purchased
> JN> a *separate* Gateway computer system (*any* Gateway system).
> JN> That is clearly a per se unlawful tie-in sales practice.
> JN>
> JN> CAVEAT:  I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.  The
> JN> above is only my understanding as a layman.  Consult your own
> JN> attorney.
>
> > I did check with an attorney...Gateway's action *are* legal...
>
>Was the attorney an expert in anti-trust law?
>
>If the action is lawful, why did Gateway change its practice in
>response to the complaint I filed?  ;-)
>
>Best regards,
>John
>         

Perhaps they wanted to persue a new market...wouldn't be the first time
such a thing has happened...perhaps their manufacturing costs reduced
to the point where they could make money selling to the general market,
instead of just breaking even selling to their original customers...
wouldn't be the first time *that* happened either...

John