From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Just Curious
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:24:22 GMT
	<1992Jul28.190209.3235@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>

In article <1992Jul28.093940.6320@u.washington.edu> 
jeon@milton.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon) writes:
Why is it so difficult for the followers of any organized religion
to accept that the claim of salvation in any other religion is as
valid as their own ? And the logical implication that follows ?
No quoting any texts, please. The same question above can be asked
about the text.

In article <1992Jul28.190209.3235@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> 
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
<Because one of the premises of many religions is "none of the other claims of
<salvation are valid".

This is most common in Christianity and Islam and to a lesser extent, Judaism.
It seems to be an side effect of the one god theory. Judaism says there is
one god for the chosen people, a tribal god. It does not make any claims
about other gods that other tribes may have. Christianity and Islam assert
that their god is the only god and that god is valid for all tribes. It is
mostly a side effect of the one god theory. If you say there are many gods,
then there is always room for more. This is like the religious beliefs of the
pre-Christian Romans. If you say there is only one god, then that might only
apply to your people, your tribe, in which case there is no room for new
gods amongst your people, but other gods among other people is acceptable. If
you say there is only one god for all people, then there is no room for the
beliefs of others and they must therefore by devil worshipers. If you say
there is a single common transcendent, then there is plenty of room for all
deities that all people and tribes might concieve of. I choose the later. All
deities are manifestations of a single transcendent. All religions and deities
are valid. Value all, for it is the product of all human kind.

<People accept their own religions' premises about other religions just like
<they accept their own religions' premises about the afterlife, or about
<the creation of the world, or about anything else.  Basically, because it says
<so, and because what a follower _is_ is someone who believes what the religion
<says; a logical consequence of accepting a religion is accepting things that
<the religion states, including statements it makes about other religions.

This is just a question of being dogmatic. There is nothing that prevents you
from believing all religions and making use of them as you see fit. It is the
individual's job to interpret and you have the freedom to interpret as you
see fit. Don't be fooled by the interpretations of mere men who claim to have
direct word from god. And forget about conversion, there is no need for that
either. Learn from dogma, but don't be dogmatic. It is OK to be an authentic
person living an authentic life.

<So you're really asking either
<1) Why do people believe things because their religion tells them to?
<("things" could mean "claims that other religions don't bring salvation", but
<could also mean lots of other stuff)

No religion tells anyone to believe anything. You are an individual, live up
to that promise. You are free to believe. The days of autocratic governments
and religions are over. Use your mind, that's what it's for. You must
interpret for yourself, don't get caught being an authentic person living an
inauthentic life. The day of the preacher and fisher of men is over, the day
of the student is here. The kingdom of god is right here, right now, we just
didn't see it. Isn't it about time we stoped desicrating it.

<or
<2) Why do religions include that sort of premise in the first place?

It is only a test along the path. If you are to be authentic, you must pass
tests, and one test is to not be dogmatic. If I said, "follow me and be free",
what would you do? Listen to your mind, but follow your heart. You know the
answers, it is only a question of discovery, of awareness.

<Which I suppose have answers of some sort, but probably not what you're 
<looking for....

It all depends what you're looking for, doesn't it? Humans beings rise to
the level of expectations. Are you rising, or have you settled in at a level
of expectation that is comfortable? Religions provide many levels of
comfortable expectation. Why do you stop there? Why don't you go on? What
holds you back? When people tell you how you should live your life, do you
follow? Why? Could it be only a test of your individuality? Why don't you
follow your heart? What makes you afraid of being the individual that you
can be? Why do you fail the tests? What could be so comforting?

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