Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

OK, Andy, slow down a minute...and reread my post.

> >First, I do not agree that the only moral statement in a well-written song is
> >contained in the lyric. If I'm doing my job as a writer, the music is written
> >to specifically reinforce the lyric. The more succesful I am at that, the more
> >the music is infused with the same moral statement as the lyric. 
> 
> Whoa.  This takes us right back into sin beats and demonic guitar riffs
> territory.  Do you really believe this?  

Of course not!! Re-read my post.

> Certainly music reinforces
> lyrics.  That's why people decide to become musicians instead of poets
> or Hallmark Card writers.  But I have balked, currently balk, and will
> always balk at the idea that music - a series of sounds - contains a
> moral statement.  History is full of examples of popular secular 
> melodies, including drinking songs and songs about prostitution (ever  
> hear "Amazing Grace" sung to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun"?) that 
> are borrowed and used in a Christian context.  If your argument were
> true, then the original immoral lyrical context should have "seeped" into 
> the songs we now know as "A Mighty Fortress is our God" and "Amazing Grace,"
> and the music should be permanently contaminated by the secular lyrics 
> that were originally attached to the melodies.  

Only if music *always* *by itself* contains a moral statement. As a writer,
I strive for my music to be more than just a device to hang my lyrics on. 
Oherwise, it has no more bearing on the finished work than the frame around
a painting or the canvas under it! Plenty of songs are written to stock, 
generic music ("Fortress and "Amazing Grace") included. My point is that if
there is a well-crafted wedding of lyric, and tune by people who are spending
*hours* trying to make a specific moral statement, it is likely to echo its
origin loudly enough to be unsuitable for a totally different context.

Please note: I'm not arguing the extremes, I'm arguing for the middle.

> 
> >Now to say a 
> >genre is corrupt is probably stretching it, particularly if numerous examples
> >of the use of the genre can be found which make "good" statements. And one can
> >find such back to the earliest days of rock (calls for justice, for example).
> >On the other hand, remember the classic rock "feel like makin' love" by (??)?
> >The music under and around the hook line is basically a libidinous picture of 
> >physical sex. I can't think of anything *else* listening to that line. Put "I'm
> >livin in Gods love" on top of that music and I'm still gonna be thinking about
> >sex...and wondering about the competence of the writer.


> But all you're saying there is that the melody or guitar riff has a 
> strong association in your mind with some immoral lyrics.  I can buy
> that.  But I don't think that means that the melody or guitar riff
> somehow inherently fits songs about sex...

Well, both the rhythm and the guitar riff are a pretty good musical 
painting of an orgasm ("Gee, where've I heard/felt *that* rhythm before";-) I 
am *NOT* saying all rock music is such...just that riff. Now, If I never
heard the lyric, would the music still make me um... you know...? Maybe or
maybe not ... I'll never know;-) I am suggesting that given its pretty explicit
texture it is a lousy choice for "I'm livin' in God's love:. And before I get
flamed for equating sex with sin/evil, I would not say the musical phrase is
immoral. I'm just saying its about sex.

> >Second, to those who hold that "only God can create, therefore everything is 
> >good", I think one should realise that *man* has been given a limited 
> >ability to create as well. And we can create both holy things and evil 
> >things...So I would contend that it *is* possible for a musical work, and 
> >possibly because of the intent of it's founders, a *genre*, to be evil...

> Yes, man creates too.  And man sometimes creates holy things and sometimes
> creates evil things.  But any musical genre is so big and encompasses so
> many different artists within that genre that I find it fairly fruitless
> to talk about the holiness or evil of the genre as a whole...

Perhaps so. I didn't so much mean to create a big argument about it as to cast
enough doubt on the statement "music *is* amoral" to cause a few people to ask
a question or two about whether their music was really consistent with what 
they want to say, or is the music the way it is because they just "dig it". I
have heard some genuinely well-married rock, and I have heard a lot of groove
tunes with a christian message to "bless" it.

> This doesn't follow to me at all.  You can find Christian music in any
> genre you care to name, including the ever-popular and controversial heavy
> metal, rap, new age, thrash, industrial, and punk categories.  All the
> evil founders in the world (whoever they are) don't negate the fact that 
> Christians have created music to edify the body of Christ and to glorify 
> God in every officially sanctioned and every controversial musical 
> genre that exists...

Well, I've heard no Christian texts to "The Stripper", yet...;-)

> There are *no* evil musical genres.  There are only sinful people who are 
> quite capable of producing lies and deceit through music.  

Well, we certainly agree on the sinful people part... and, to tell you the 
truth, I can't *name* a sinful *genre*. And the burden of proof must fall on 
the one who would call one such, particularly if other sensitive christians
are writing legitimate, quality works in the genre. But there is a difference
between eating food sacrificed to idols because you know in your heart that
such idols are only stone and metal and have no power to taint god-given food,
and in saying "to hell with whether it's a sin or not...it's meat...let's 
eat!!! I realise you are approaching the music from the former perspective. The
*only* "but" I would say is to ask if music (I mean significant chunks of it, 
not just tiny elemental snippets of melody, timbre or rhythm) as a work of
someone's hands, is absolutely, completely, and unconditionally devoid of 
moral statement. 

Bob (Puddleglum: Stop! don't eat another bite ... its a *talking* stag) Miller

P.S. 

>>My prescription? When a writer's heart is in touch with God and he knows his
>>craft well enough to marry the right lyric with the right music so they 
>>become a seamless whole, that's what matters. Perhaps because of differing 
>>cultural conditioning, another hearer might not understand the connection, 
>>but I would contend that while the writer must be sensitive to his audience,
>>if the work is holy in the concert-hall of his Spirit-filled heart, let no 
>>man dare to call it profane.

> Amen on that.

Glad you liked it. Its what I really had to say. I should have left out the
other stuff ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian