HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.bbs.misc
Keywords: rfd comp.bbs.misc
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:54:38 GMT

gordon@pinetree.org (Gordon Dewis) writes:
>gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:

>>Charter:
>> 
>>Comp.bbs.misc is for discussion of all aspects of Bulletin Board Systems
>>(BBSs).  Topics would include those current discussed in alt.bbs, .ads,
>>.allsysop, .cnet, .internet, .lists, and .lists.d.  Topics related to
>>specific BBS software are not included, and can be discussed in their
>>corresponding comp.sys.* group or form a subgroup of comp.bbs (like
>>comp.bbs.waffle is attempting at this time).

>If this is the charter, then I vote NO.  What is being proposed here is a 
>mish mash of all sorts of topics.  At bare minimum, alt.bbs.ads and 
>alt.bbs.lists should be excluded.  These will add too much "fluff" to 
>comp.bbs.misc.

I see your point, but it also would not be good to get on those groups'
readers' bad side by explicitly denying them discussion in the .misc
group.  I'd like to see them merge into a moderated comp.bbs.lists with
companion .d group, but I'm not quite ready to add them to this
proposal.  Maybe I will, if more people like you feel it is in the best
interests of the .misc group to retain the existing splits.  We'll need
a moderator though.

Myself, I'm not willing to exclude them unless they get their own comp
groups.

>Changing the charter to read:
>        "... Topics would include those currently discussed in alt.bbs, 
>         .allsysop, .cnet and .internet."
>
>I'd be more likely to vote YES to that. :-)

I've noticed that .cnet is a bit inconsistent with the rest of the
charter, on platform-specific software discussion.  I'll have to take a
look at that group, as soon as I find a machine that carries it.

>  Internet:  gordon@pinetree.org              |     This space for rent
>  UUCP:  ...!uunet.ca!pinetree!gordon         |       Email author for
>  Fidonet: 1:163/305.7    IMEx: 89:483/1187   |     further information
>  Gordon's Pinetree --  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- +1 613 526 0702 -- 2400 MNP

--
  ///   ____   \\\       | CAUTION:
  | |/ /    \ \| |       | Avoid eye contact.  In case of contact, flush
   \\_|\____/|_//        | mind for 15 minutes.  See a psychiatrist if
       \_)\\/            | irritation persists.  Not to be taken
gberigan `-' cse.unl.edu | seriously.  Keep out of sight of children.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:41:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Apr13.224114.17044
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
> >All anyone is asking is that you follow the bloody conventions, if

>We are.  Manga is a recreational art which doesn't belong under *.comics.

    You do of course realize that rec.* was for everything that wasn't
originally in comp.* or sci.*. It wasn't just for recreational
activities. Rec.arts.* are for the subgroup of the morass of groups in
the rec.* hierarchy that pertain to forms of expression, all forms of
expression that can be considered art. Rec.arts.comics is for the futher
specializaion of the form of expression that involves graphical
sequential art used in story-telling. It might not be the best name for
the sub-group but that is the name. All I want is for someone to explain
how manga doesn't fall under that classification.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:58:41 GMT

I'll have to add my voice to the chorus of "let's not do this" cries.
I enjoy Enya's music a great deal, and have already posted to alt.fan.
enya once...but a full-fledged rec group is not something I see as
necessary.  

Paul, I heartily recommend the suggestions others have made: start a mailing
list, and if the support there is high enough that a group seems obviously
merited, try an alt group; and then start this process up.

As it is, you're going to drown in no votes, with mine among them.

Tim Lynch
tlynch@juliet.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jet@next2 (Jon Tegethoff)
Subject: new group
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:53:38 GMT

This is an announcement of a new news group solely for the purpose of  
explaining Motorola's Distributed E-Mail system.  It is located at  
mot.comp.mail.
Xref: sparky news.groups:10542 soc.culture.indian.american:1829
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:32:03 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

>From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
>Message-ID: <1992Apr17.145849.12876@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
>Date: 17 Apr 92 14:58:49 GMT
>References: <29EB313E.4CE9@tct.com> <rdippold.703483209@cancun>
>
>In article <rdippold.703483209@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron
>Dippold) writes:
>>
>> Ditto.  More than one person is most likely voting against it because
>> if it passed alok would just become completely insufferable.
>> --
>
>It always amazes me how shallow and sadistic people can be at times :)
>Alok

Tough.  Regardless of why people feel that way, _you personally_ and
nobody else, have placed SCIA in this position, and you are doing your
damned best to make sure that it never gets anything close to full
distribution.   Bitch all you want about how naughty that is, but it
is the case.

Meanwhile, of course, you are also getting indian americans _tons_ of
goodwill as their "official spokesman," although I'm sure they'd
protest that vigorously.
-- 
"No, but they gave one to me anyway." -- LA Lakers rookie Elden Campbell
when asked if he earned a degree at Clemson University
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:11:26 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>Manga are to *western* comics as judo is to boxing.  Both manga and
>>western comics are comics, and both boxing and judo are martial arts. So
>>put the group where it belongs. 

>Good point.  The group for the discussion of western comics should be
>on the same level as the group for the discussion of asian comics.  Currently
>the group for the discussion of western comics is rec.arts.comics.  That
>can change, and if so, we'd be happy to move the proposed rec.arts.manga
>too.

    Why wait? Why not help make the move to rec.arts.comics.misc that
much more probable by putting the manga group where it belongs, in the
UseNet hierarchy for all comics related discussion: rec.arts.comics.*.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Xref: sparky news.groups:9919 news.admin:3506
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
Subject: Re: UUNET speaks concerning usa.*
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:14:39 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

gritton@altar.caedm.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton) writes:
>    In fact, David tells me he isn't happy with the way usa.* has been
> "created." To quote him: "_Please_ work within that framework toward
> getting the hierarchy going."
>    This suggestion does have merit. On the other hand, I don't want to
> abandon my efforts.

Your effort won't be wasted.  When the vote goes through, hopefully there
won't be any sites left with duff sys files to cause people grief.

In the mean time, I'm willing to restart the vote I was proposing to run.


mathew
-- 
Civilization is just a temporary failure of entropy.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:20:57 GMT

nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell) writes:
>From an article by axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair):
>> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>  >		 ________________________________________
>>  >		|                                        |
>>  >		|       ARTS                             |
>>  >		|   ________________  ________________   |
>>  >		|  |                \/                |  |
>>  >		|  |                /\                |  |
>>  >		|  |     COMICS    ( \)  MANGA        |  |
>>  >		|  |                \/\               |  |
>>  >		|  |________________/\_\______________|  |
>>  >		|_______________________\________________|
>>  >		                         \
>>  >					ART THAT DRAWS FROM
>>  >					BOTH TRADITIONS
>> 
>> Looks good to me!
>
>I think you know very well that lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
>did not write what you have attributed to him above.  I think you owe
>him a public apology.  I hope that this was just a clumsy failure to
>delete the attribution line.  

I think everyone knows that Iain simply made a joke (in poor taste).
No one thought Lazlo wrote that.  We're getting too picky.

--David
-------------            --------------------------          ----------------
|.<.....@...+############+ David Blume            +####      |.........>....|
|...........|            | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com |   #######+..............|
-------------            --------------------------          ----------------
From: carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.music.enya
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:21:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.CARLTON.92Apr9212146
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu's message of 9 Apr 92 01:40:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.014054.2819@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

> Leave the creation of new newsgroups for artists that have made a
> serious dent in history.  The passage of rec.music.phish and, to a
> lesser extent, alt.music.enya has rather badly damaged newbies'
> impressions of the newsgroup creation process.

Rec.music.phish is getting a fairly decent volume, certainly a lot
better volume than other groups about more established subjects (e.g.
comp.lang.scheme, to pick a random example.)  It strikes me as a weird
idea, too, but if people read and post to it then who are we to
complain?

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

       If I am elected no one will ever have to do their laundry
       again!
Date:  7 Apr 92 02:39:15 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
 >    You know, this is one of the biggest reasons why splitting
 >rec.games.frp hasn't worked in the past. People seem to think that the
 >name has some intrinsic value that is passed onto the group

It does.  That's the whole idea of naming things.  That's one
of the reasons we have newsgroups at all.   If you don't think
names have any "intrinsic value", why the hell are you telling
manga readers what name their group should be?

 >rec.arts.manga isn't efficient IMHO.

Yeah, in your "HO", but why isn't it?  I've already shown that it's
far better than the alternative.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 22:31:23 GMT

In <frnk.702743924@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:
>   The alt group was created as a direct result of the rec.music.enya RFD. If
>rec.music.enya passes I will ask for the deletion of the alt group. (rec groups
>are more formally known and recognised than alt groups.)

Really?

Inflated ego, Paul?

I think the idea of an enya group was being discussed before your RFD, and
the group was created in response to that discussion, not your RFD.

Again:  perhaps it is only a convention rather than a "rule" for creating
newsgroups, but I have never in my experience seen a group with this much
negative discussion actually go through with a CFV.  If you really must
be bullheaded and force Usenet to prove to you what a bad idea this is,
I guess there's nothing that I can say to change your mind, but I will
bet it is only an exercise in stubborn futility.  You will be buried
in NO votes.

I advised you against this before you even started the RFD, but of course
experience with the net doesn't really count for anything, does it?
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
             "See you guys ar--see you.  Er.  Great.  Fine.  Ciao."
     As the Bently skidded off into the darkness Ligur said, "Wossat mean?"
            "It's Italian," said Hastur.  "I think it means 'food'."
From: Bob.Batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: call for a few new newsgroups
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:30:10 GMT


kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) writes:

                              [MUCH DELETED]

 > You've missed the point.  The fact the toaster exists doesn't mean
 > it automatically deserves its own group.  There are already
low-volume
 > groups devoted to the general purpose the toaster serves.
 
There already is a National Fidonet echo (or newsgroup) exclusively
about
the video toaster, but it is NOT a low-volume group!

                             [MORE DELETED] 

 > ....................................................... Other than 
 > Amiga-vs-the-world one-upmanship, there's no reason why the group
 > has to be under comp.sys.amiga.
 > By putting it under an existing graphics or video hierarchy, you'll
 > make it more noticeable and convenient to people interested in these

 > topics.  That's the point of group placement, not rubbing peoples'
 > noses in the fact that the toaster only runs on the Amiga.

I agree with you and because of your reasoning, propose that the
toaster
have its' own group such as comp.sys.graphics.toaster.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson                        Amiga Users Group of Kansas City
bbatson@kcufgat.fidonet.org
bob.batson@kcufgat.fidonet.org


 * Origin: Bob's AUGKC Point (1:280/322.3)
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:55:47 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Still another problem with rec.arts.comics.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor) writes:
 >Incidentally, speaking as a news and system administrator, what
 >proponents of rec.arts.manga as opposed to rec.arts.comics.manga have
 >to demonstrate is that the latter is at least as inappropriate as
 >rec.arts.anime.manga

Considering that (in my estimate) there is about five times as much
manga-related traffic in rec.arts.anime than in rec.arts.comics,
rec.arts.anime.manga would be much more appropriate than
rec.arts.comics.manga.   Rec.arts.manga is more appropriate still.

 >Nobody is denying that manga are ``at the same level'' as comics,
 >they're just denying that that has any relevance to selecting a
 >newsgroup name.

In soc.culture.australian, we get some folks coming in and asking
what cricket is.  Invariably, someone says that it is "like baseball".

If I'm to believe some of the naysayers here, the appropriate group
for cricket should be rec.sport.baseball.cricket.  This way, people
who don't know anything about cricket will have some idea of
what the newsgroup is about,  and the people who know about cricket
will have an easier time "finding" the newsgroup.   I mean, since
cricket is just a variation on a hitting a ball with a bat, that's the
way to classify it.


I've yet to be convinced that such arguments apply to rec.arts.manga,
or that they're sensible at all.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: gao@eecg.toronto.edu (Xiangyang Gao)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Image Processing
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:55:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: jarvis.1992Apr12.115532.14389

I support the idea of establishing a news group on image processing.
As far as I can see, there is a big demand for it. The name is like: 
comp.dsp.imageprocessing, as one gentleman suggested. 

Frank Gao
From: sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:23:23 GMT
Reply-To: sridhar@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman)
Followup-To: news.groups
Distribution: usa
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

duane@thismoment.EBay.Sun.COM (Duane Day) writes on news.groups:

)Great - now Alok fancies himself President.

Fortunately or Unfortunately, he can't run for Presidency. Pl. let him
fancy being one. :-)

)I eagerly await his announcement that he has promoted himself to "God".

Let the following quote answer your question.

" I am the light, without which there shall be darkness all around ...."

                                                - Alok Vijayvargia (3/30/92)
)--
)
)Hypocrisy is the vaseline |UUCP: ...!sun!EBay!thismoment!duane
)of political intercourse. |INTN: duane@EBay.sun.com
)   -  Billy Connolly      |USPS: 2550 Garcia Ave. M/S M3-76, Mtn. View CA 94042

Cheers,
Sridhar.
From: soth@omj.gna.org (Lord Soth       )
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.arts.dragonlance
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:27:22 GMT
Organization: OMJ, 17 rue Raspail, 94200 Ivry, France. +33 (1) 46722485

EGIBBS@csci1.csci.unt.edu (Austin Gibbs) writes:

> Group: rec.arts.dragonlance
> Status: unmoderated
> 
> Proposed Charter:
>    The Dragonlance series from TSR, the makers of the AD&D role-playing 
> system, has become a series with several books on the bestseller list. 
> There are many uses for a discussion group.
>    Testing new short stories on people already familiar with the dragonlance
> world of Krynn.
>    Discussing questions about the world of Krynn.
>    A place for DM's to exchange ideas on running campaigns in the 
> Dragonlance world.
>    Discussing new releases of Dragonlance books.
> This will be for serious discussions on these and other related topics. 
> 
> The discussion will last until April the 30th at which time there will
> be a vote on wether or not to create the group.

        You know what ??? I don't think that the dragonlance novels
        are great books. However my login name is Soth, so I agree with
        the creation of rec.arts.dragonlance.

        Why ???

        While the dragonlance saga isn't as good as The Belgariade or Darkover,
        I enjoyed its reading. And today, there are many novels.

        And some of them are awfully bad (Who cares about Huma's fate ??).

        But some characters like lady Kitiara, lord Soth or Raistlin are
        fascinating and the Twins Saga was a great one.

        I wish there would be many which will be interested by this idea.

        So, you can mail me your answer if you're okay.


                                           L Dung
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:48:14 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>If content of the threads in the new group is to be considered when naming
>it, then rec.arts.anime.manga is better suited than rec.arts.comics.manga.
>(Although rec.arts.manga is even more appropriate...)

    If you are going to use this line of reasoning, then you should be
trying to create soc.culture.japan.anime and s.c.japan.manga because the
Japanese cultural background is the only thing they share in common, and
what gives them similar content. If you want a rec.arts.* group then you
are going to have to look at the genre you are dealing with. If it's not
rec.arts.tv.manga, or r.a.movies.manga, or r.a.sf.manga, or even
r.a.books.manga then you are severely limited in you choices for
appropriate sub hierarchies. Incidentally manga isn't a type of
animation, in fact anime is really just animated manga. But the manga in
its original form is still a type of graphical novel, the hierarchy for
which is rec.arts.comics.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:43:00 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

askim@pomona.claremont.edu writes:

>I personally don't think that it should be under the rec.arts.comics purview,
>since Japanese comics are a lot more different.  In r.a.c., discussion is
>always on American format type comic books, and due to the huge number of
>posts, discussion on manga would tend to be overshadowed.  A group devoted
>solely to manga is needed.  For me, it doesn't matter if the group is
>rec.arts.manga or rec.arts.comics.manga, since they're both rec.arts.*, which
>has a wider distribution (I think) than having it as and alt.* group, where it
>is now.

    Purview? All I was talking about in that paragraph was the
appropriate place for the group. And what does the format of the comic
have to do with anything? The simple fact remains that the majority of
the net thinks that a comic book is a comic book, and while we may know
different, we are not the only people to consider in this mattter. The
group, IMHO, should be called rec.arts.comics.manga.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | "When you get right down do it there is only
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   |  one thing that matters here...
 Mac Database Developer     |                       I Have Mob Ties!"
 Dartmouth Medical School   |      -Mario Cuomo (played by Phil Hartman)
Xref: sparky news.groups:10271 rec.arts.sf.movies:3290 rec.arts.comics:13107