HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asokan@Ingres.COM (Ashok Subramanian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:48:18 GMT
Reply-To: asokan@Ingres.COM (Ashok Subramanian)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <MANI.92Jul30130908@aix.Berkeley.EDU> mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>
>Can someone please post a translation of the following song
>in Jonpuri Ragam?
>
>---------------------------
>
>aruNAchalakavi rAmanATaka kIrthanai
>
Idhu dEvargaLukku, mahA vishnuvin abayam aLithhu kooruvadAga
amainda pAdal.

>avathAram sheyididUvirE nIngaL       
>arakkar bhayaththai viDuvirE

dEvargaLe, rAvaNa arakkanai azhippadarkku nAn avadAram seyyap pogirEn.
neengalum adhil pangErpadharkku, ulagil sendru vEru vEru manidarAga,
vAnaramAga enakku udavida avadAram seyyungaL. InimEl, rAvaNathi arakkar
seyyum kodumaigaLai sagikka mudiyAmal, bayandhu vAzhvadhai vittu
ozhiyungaL.

>
>kavana vAliyum sugrIvanumAhi
>kaNNAyiravanum kadirOnum pOhi

Ovvoru dEvarukkum oru avadAra kAriyaththai niyamithhu varugaiyil,
indiranai (kaNN Ayiravan) vAilyagavum, Sooriyanai SukreevanAgavum
avadharam seyyachcholli paNikkirAr.

>
>adigamAna rudran ange anuman shIlan
Rudranai (sivanudaiya amsam - muruganaiyum anumananiyum oppu nokki
pAdal onru irukkiradhu. Anumanai siva amsamAga korrum oru sArArum
uNdu.) anuman engira seela gunamudaiyavanAga pOi pirakkum padiyAgavum,

>akkiniyE  shENaikkadivanai nIlan
agni bagaVanai vAnara senaikku adi kAvalanAna "neelan" Agavum,

>chaturmukha brammavE jAmbavan yenum kAlan

nAngu mugam udaiya biraman Javan engira karadiyAgavum,

>thagum upEndiran vAli thanakku bAlanAha

(inda upEndran enda kadavulai kurippadhu enru theriyavillai). Upendranai
vAli maindan angadanAgavum, pirakkumpadiyAga mahAvishnu paNikkirAr.
>
>shankamum chakkramum sheSHanum parivAha

mahAvishnuvinudaiya "sangu" bharathanAgavum, "chakkrAyudam" 
chathuknanAgavum, "AdisEshan" lakshmaNanAgavum, parivudan,

>thambiyarAy varaththAnE nAm bhUlOka

ennudaiya thambiyaRai thuNai vara, poolvulagil,

>thUnganAna dasharaThan kuRai pOha

ventri veeran ( thungan - Rfer to thamizh agarAthi) dasaratha
rajanudaiya piLLaippEru illadha kurai pOga,

>shurukkA varuvOm yevarum adan munnAhappOy

seekirama avadAram seivOm nAm (thamizh cinema vil vasanam kEthirupp-
eergaLe). Adarkku munnadAga, neengal ellOrum, devalogaththil,
ungal aluvalgaLai moottai kattivaiththuvittu, poolOgam sellungaL
endru dEvargaLai paNikkirAr Sri Vishu. ("Surukka" enbadhu konjam
kochchaiyAga iruppadhu pOl thOnrinAlum, thamizh agarAthiyin padi,
oppukkoLLakkoodiya padam thAn)
>
>-------------------
>
>Yours in Peace,
>Mani

thamizh viththagan,

-asokan subramaniyam`

PS: ennal iyandravarai poruL kooriyirukkirEn, pizhaiyiruppin,
mannikkavum.
From: somasun@server.uwindsor.ca (SUNDHAR SOMA             )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: dhamthoondu santhegam
Date: 31 Jul 1992 03:33:46 GMT

Senthamizh machigalae,
                 nammaku oru dhamathoondu santhaegam.
        Entha news group soc.culture.tamil aa
                       ella 
                         soc.culture.anti_india va ?

 Hint : 1) Ethukku Koonar Guide lae answer thedi time waste ( I searched
                   already :-) ) ;

        2) For those who may not be familiar with some of the madras
 tamil ( or my tamil transliteration ) , the gist is as follows :
           Is this news group
      soc.culture.tamil  (or) soc.culture.anti_india ?

 Somasundhar.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: venkatap@cisa.cis.uab.edu (Chandrasekaran Venkatapathy)
Subject: Tamil Eelam News in the Net
Originator: venkatap@cisa
Organization: Comp. Science Dept, University of Alabama at Birmingham
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:37:35 GMT



	I have been seeing quite a few TE (Tamil Eelam news) in the 
	net.  Well, I would like to point out that this net was
	formed to discuss and share tamil culture.  If the readers
	want to spread Tamil Eelam news, I request them to post
	it in a different group/net (if available) or can inform
	the interested persons directly thru email. 
	the inte
		Hope the netters would take this request in good
	spirits.


	Cheers

	Chandrasekaran  V.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala SWAMINATHAN)
Subject: Re: vetRi ( victory )
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:58:13 GMT

In article <2A6DAFDB.6915@noiro.acs.uci.edu> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:
>>            ------
>>  seidhith thaaLaip pirikka
>>  thamizhar veeram sidhaRiyadhu
>>
>>  madurai kaNdathu varalaatRuk kOlam
>>  cut-out uyaram meenaakshikku chavaal
>>  thondar kaLiththanar
>>  avar oor bus-aith thEdik kaLaiththanar
>>  vetRi yaarukku ?
>	
>	It seems there were cut-outs of the CM on four entrance points of 
>	Madurai city at least foot a taller than Madurai temple Gopuram.
>	One of them apparantly fell off due to wind injuring few people.
>
>	Is it a continuation of Mahamagam deaths?.
>
>M. Sundaramoorthy
>sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu

I was in Madurai during the preparations by the Govt. of Tamil Nadu
for a party's (in this case AIADMK) private function. Mr. Sedapatti
Muththiah, IMO, doesn't seem to know what it is to be a speaker of
the assembly. He was also in Madurai supervising the preparations.

Well, the cut outs were real and there was 1 (one) cop whose only
duty was to guard the cut-out. The reason given was that any attempt
to damage the cut-out by the other pary members might spark fresh
violence.

There were posters by DMK, DK, and even Cong-I party local big wigs
accusing the Govt. of misusing public money. You could guess what
would have happened. Yes, the printing presses and their owners have
been dealt with accordingly (nanRAga kavanikkap pattArkaL).

The DMK leadership had its own problems. He was obsessed with halting
the uprise of Vai. Gopalsamy within the party.

S_Bala
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Handling undesirable postings
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:56:09 GMT
Reply-To: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan)
Organization: IREQ, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada
Originator: srini@acr

I am expressing my thoughts on this again. It looks like some have missed
it. Of late, there were about 3 undesriable postings in a total of 420
postings upto a couple of days ago.

There were however 20 followups condemning these 3 postings. That is exactly
what is to be avoided. Do not blame the whole group, 1000 others, and waste
their time by these 20 postings. This is the course of action I suggest for
keeping sanity in the newsgroup.

1. If you think, a particular posting is unfit for s.c.t. Do not follow it
with repeat copy of that. It only makes the title/contents appear again.

2. Send a courteous e-mail to the author of the posting, why it was in YOUR
opinion undesirable and would prefer if he stops. Make a request. Not order.

3. If the poster is arrogant and insults you, inform his systems
administrator, with sufficient proof, like his mail to you,
his posting etc.

I hope this 21st posting is the last unneccessary posting.

K. Srinivasan  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: selvakum@watserv1.waterloo.edu (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: Re: Is Thirukkural a jainist work ?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:08:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.151718.17247@newstand.syr.edu>, meena@top.cis.syr.edu (Meenakshi Arunachalam) writes:
> In article <BroxAL.7u1@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
> >In article <BrHxpK.AvC@watserv1.waterloo.edu> mvishnu@morse.waterloo.edu (m vishnu) writes:
> >>
> >>Translation:  Thiruvalluvar is not a Jain because, he does not accept
> >>the following Jain beliefs:
>   ...
> 
> >>Meenan Vishnu
> >
> >The alternative is that Mahavir Jain was aware of some of the concepts
> >expressed in TirukkuraL. That would put some of the kuraLs earlier than
> >500 BC. Any comments?
> >
> >rinivasan K.
> 
> In the "Kanthar Sashti Kavasam"[Pazhani], there is a kural venba 
> at the beginning:
> 
> 	Amarar idartheera amaram purintha
> 	kumaranadi nenje kuri.
> 
> Thiruvalluvar has referred to Lord Muruga in this kural. 
> I was wondering if this could throw some light on his belief.
> Or is he just talking about the then popular saivite faith?
> any idea as to which chapter/athikaram this kural is from?
> 
> thanks
> -meena

  I don't think this is "Thiruvalluvar's" kuraL. There are quite
  a few who have written "kuRaL" venpaa. There are avvaiyar's
  and many others as well. 

  Selva Selvakumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: thai@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Sankaran Thayumanavan)
Subject: more s.v.sekar
Summary: s.v.sekar
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:08:35 GMT
Keywords: s.v.sekar joke

here are two more s.v.s. jokes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

gramathaar:  sir, indha kalathilae enna ennamo ellam vayilae varatha peyara
             vaikirranga, nalla vayilae varukira mathiri namm pullaikku oru
             peyar sollunga, sir.  

s.v.sekar:   vanthi...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

gramathaar:  ............................................................
             ..............,  kathilae nulayira madhiri irandu peyar        
             sollunga sir.

s.v.sekar:   oosi, kuchi, .....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

(yov, aalubuggar, ithavathu joke mathiri theriyutha, titlelae 'joke'nnu 
podaama irrukkiraen.) 

(rr, thanks for reminding me these two.)

anban,

thayumanavan  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: prv@po.CWRU.Edu (Pallassana R. Venkataraman)
Subject: Please start a news group soc.cul.indian.tamil that is moderated.
Reply-To: prv@po.CWRU.Edu (Pallassana R. Venkataraman)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:16:22 GMT


Dear netters, 
	I have been offlate seeing too much of propaganda of LTTE on this net.
	So I would suggest that we start soc. culture. indian. tamil which is 
	moderated. 
	I am disappointed to see my vote go this way. 
	Luckily unlike in politics this net, does have a time period for 
	its existence. Hence I request the persons concerned to start a new
	newsgroup. 
	I just can't tolerate seeing articles which says there may be 
	justification for assasination of Rajiv. How soon we have forgotten 
	the kural whos translation goes, " Do onto the person  so good deeds, 
	such that he regrets what he has done for you ". I taught this 
	newsgroup would be an example for other culture people to follow. 
	Alas what has happened. I suggest that change because  I always beleive
	in the fact that one can never reason out with morones.
	Discretion is better than valour. Only way to do it is to start the 
	newgroup and see to it that it is moderated, if necessary by a panel, 
	just to make sure no one is biased. 
	I hope somebody would listen and take action at the earliest.
	Thanks for you time and patience
	Cheers
	venkat raman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Sangam poem and translation
Keywords: AinkuRunuuru
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:23:45 GMT

  This is a poem from ainkuRunuuru by ammuuvanaar.
We studied this poem in TN state board text book.

  This is told by girl's friend (thozhi) to the man (lover) urging
the man to marry the girl as soon as possible. There is
a good analogy here.

   siRunani varainthanai koNMo peruneer
   valavar thanta kozhumeen valcip
   paRaithapu mudukuuku irukum
   thuRaikezhu thondi annavevaL nalanAe .


"Please make her yours as soon as possible
 An old crane(unable to fly) is waiting to snatch
the healthy fish caught by the toiling coastal fisherman.
Let good things happen to her"

Kathiravan.

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar)
Subject: SOME VIEWS ABOUT NEWS POSTINGS AND POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS IN SCT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:16:36 GMT

Dear Nettors,

I would like to make some observations regarding the current controversy 
regarding the posting of TE/TN news.

First of all I am totally opposed to the idea that politics should not be
discussed in SCT. Culture is incomplete without politics. If one follows the
Tamil history we can easily see how politics played an important part in
almost all happenings. The literature is also entwined with political flavor.
There are hundreds of poems praising some kings' exploits, wars etc etc.
And don't forget the role of politics in the happenings during the age of
Kambar, Ottakkoothar, Ouvaiyaar, ThiruvaLLuvar.....

If we leave out politics we are ignoring a significant part of our culture.
And one other observation: When there were discussions regarding the reservation
issue in TN, Jayalalitha, Rajanikanth, Cho etc., there was no outcry that
politics should be avoided and such news should not be posted. But when a
Srilankan posted some news why is there such an outcry ? If this is not 
hypocrisy then what is ?

I would personally like to know about the fellow Tamils all around the world.
Be it Srilankan or Fijian or Singaporean or Australian they are also Tamils.
We are all bound together by our language and culture and what other avenue
is better to discuss about Tamils all around the world than SCT ? 

If people don't want to read about something they are always welcome to skip
it. Why bother to read it and then flame it and then complaining about flame 
wars ? And some people even suggest creating a new newsgroup called soc.culture.
indian.tamil. That just goes to show our intolerance to others who are different
from us. Brahmin-anti brahmin, Hindu-Muslim, Tamil-Hindi, Dravidian-Aryan : in
all these issues I have seen people to take sides and fight rather than putting
forward valid views and arguments. And the most despicable thing is to attack
the poster instead of countering their arguments. One example being the 
labelling of Mr. Meenan Vishnu as an idiot by one nettor. I am repeating the 
words of Mr. Rodney King:

	"CAN  WE  ALL  GET  ALONG ?"

Yes, we can, if we learn to respect others, their views and their postions. 
Identify areas where you agree with someone before identifying areas where
you disagree, acknowledge the good points/efforts/views before choosing to
attack the bad ones.

One sincere appeal to Mr. Meenan Vishnu and others who post news. Please
post news but try to desist from posting news which maybe biased or provocative
or controversial. And also give the news as it is with date/time/source and 
without personal comments.

And for people who are too eager to unsubscribe from SCT based on just two
postings among the hundreds of other postings: please reconsider your decision.

	"onRu pattaal undu vaazhvE nammil 
	 otRumai neengil anaivarkum thaazhvE"

	"yaathum oorE yaavarum kELiR
 	 anbE engaL ulaga thathuvam"	


UngaL naNban,
M.P.Premkumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: pasupat@ecf.toronto.edu (Subbarayan Pasupathy)
Subject: THIRUKKURAL
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:24:03 GMT

Here are some comments regarding the articles on Thirukkural that  
appeared in the network recently.
1.First,about the age of Thirukkural.This question is closely
tied to the whole question of Sangam age and the age of the
period of "Neethi Ilakkiyam".Unfortunately, there is more
fiction than facts in "IRaiyanaar agapporuL urai" which
idescribes details about Sangams.This has led researchers like
Vaiyapuri Pillai and 
 Nilakanta sastri to ascribe A.D.100-300 to the age
of the presently available Sangam classics.A more 'charitable'
view is exemplified by authors such as M.Varadarajan(History
of Tamil Literature,Sahitya Academi,Delhi,1986) who describe
the Sangam age as 500 B.C - 200 A.D. This ,among other reasons,
leads researchers to describe the age of Thirukkural and other
didactical works.Mu.Va suggests A.D 100-500. Thus I don't know
anyone who suggests an earlier age for KuRaL.
2.Seconly, the religion of ThiruvaLLuvar.Vaiyapuri Pillai and
Nilakanta Sastry give Jainism the maximum possibility.I do not
know what new evidence has come up recently.Based on the above
references, I had always believed he was a Jain.
3.Thirdly, the details of VaLLuvar's life.All the researchers
agree that the stories of his life are just that- merely
stories.It is ironic that while the author advocates virtues
such as Truth, Tamils made a mockery of his teachings by 
creating many fictitious stories about his life.(This is not 
confined to Tamils alone, this is a curse for the entire
Indian 'history').
4.Among many English translations of Thirukkural, there is one
by V.V.S.Aiyar.There is one by Rajaji for selected Kurals and
published by Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan.
S.Pasupathy
 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: Re: pahavan in kuRaL no 1.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:07:33 GMT

In article <Bs7IIy.EFu@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
> In article <Bs63JC.6xo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering) writes:
> 
> >      I have often wondered why ThiruvaLLuvar (TK) who was so revolutionary
> >      in praising "mazhai" did not give an equal place to "sun" which is
> >      one of the prime first natural "element"s. I know there are some fishes
> >      deep in the sea which do not require "sun" light but it seems like a 
> >     puzzle !
> 
> >      Selva Selvakumar
> 
> Andal in Tiruppaavai also prays for 'naadu ellaam thingaL mum maari peydhu'
> (three rain falls a month all over the country). Nothing about the 'sun'.
> 
> 'maari' temples are everywhere. Not much of 'sun' worship!
> I think it is because the region receives lots of sun and is
> taken for granted. It is rain that is desperately needed.
> I think some portions of TN were 'paalai vanam' (desert) also,
> until they were turned green by the kings who constructed irrigation
> projects on kaavEri. There is a still a shiva temple called
> 'paalaivana swami koil' in the Tanjore delta near 'Papanasam'.
> 
> When you see that 60% of the days in
> Eastern US and Canada are cloudy, we realize why 'sun' is so important here.
> 
> K. Srinivasan


      Very interesting ! The main reason for my wonder was the Tamils were
      supposed to be Sun Worshippers ( Pongal is an example, the Tamil calendar
      "panchangam" is based on sun unlike other native calendars etc.). Sunlight
      is vital for photosynthesis which is important to plants > animals 
      survival. Although your thought that about "paalai" is extremely 
      interesting, I don't understand why TK will leave out such a vital
      basis. Although south asia is warm, there were instances in tamil where
      the "warm" climate is praised just as in Canada! I don't remeber the
      Sangam song but it goes like "veyyini" = sweet warmth. 
      
      Tamils also say niir_inRi_amaiyaathu ulagam ! 
      Water might be an element that uniquely 
      distinguishes EARTH from other planets and that is why he (TV) and our
      pEraruL empiratti AndaaL praises the rain and water ? Afterall many
      planets get sun shine, even many planets in other star systems might
      get "sun" light and thus sun is not so unique ( they don't presumably
      have plants and life-forms )? May be the *essential*
      ingredient for a plant is water and not the sun (!) ( I think without 
      water a plant can not exist but without sun light it can exist by  
      using artificial lights?? However, this argument should not be stretched
      to mean that everthing will be normal without sun !). 

      Just a thought.

      anbudan,

      Selva Selvakumar
From: vganesan@reed.edu (The Phoenix)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A kannadasan song
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:03:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul21.050307.28411
Followup-To: vganesan@reed.edu, alt.flame
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Jul20.230240.12806@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU> kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar) writes:
>In article <1992Jul19.034330.14572@reed.edu> vganesan@reed.edu (The Phoenix) writes:
>>I have two queries regarding Kannadasan's lyrics.
>>

>>
>>	"Paramasivam kayuthil erundha pambu kettathu
>>	Garuda sowkiyama??
>>	..........
>>
>>Now this song contained a political statement that Kannadasan
>>was making to karunanidhi, anybody know more about this.
>
>Is it so ? 
>
>The song is as follows :
>

The lyrics of the song kindly presented by kumar
deleted to save bw.

>
>
>I do not know where Karunanithi is being attacked.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you are assuming too much. All I asked was whether anyone
knew about the alleged claim that the song was written to make a
 political statement to Karunanidhi. No where did I state that
 Karunanithi was attacked, perhaps you are a bit too anxious to
 see the things you want rather than the way things actually are.

>
>Any comments ?
>
>Anbudan,


with kind regards

The Phoenix


>V R Kumar
>
>"Vaazhga Thamizh, Vaazhga Vaiyagam, Vaazhga Valamudan"
>
>"Thamilzhukkum amuthaendru paer, andhath thamizh inbath thamizh
> engal uyirukku naer"
>
>
>-- 
>*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
>| V.R.Kumar (Ramkumar Venkatachalam)                                 |
>| CSIRO, Division of Information Technology                          |
>| P.O.Box:1599, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde, NSW 2113, AUSTRALIA    |


-- 
  The Greatest burden in the world is to have              The Phoenix
   a great potential.                                      Reed #252
                     Linus from "Peanuts"                  Reed College
                                                         Portland, OR-97202
From: rengi@vax2.concordia.ca (RENGARAJAN, SAMPATH)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Poruthamillaa UvamaanangaL
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:27:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	I have been reading unworthy comparisons lately in the network .
Kannadaasan may be the greatest in his time. But there is no way one can 
compare Thiruvalluvar and his work. I cannot agree that it is a simple 
coincidence that Pulavar Kannadaasan wrote the same theme as Valluvar or
Kambar. The poetic standard of Tamil has been deteriorating ever since the
evolution of the so called "Pahutharivaathikal".  These are those who had set 
very primitive objective as their goals in their life and the standards they
created for the next generation poets were hence further lowered.

Can somebody talk purely of Valuvan alone or Kamban alone or Kannadaasan alone. 
I would not even agree for a comparison of Vairamuthu with Kannadaasan. They all
belong to different eras wherein the standards were substantially lowered. 
It is the same story with the story writers too.

Kalki was far commanding and so wise in Sivakaamiyin Sabatham. Where as 
Kalaignar in MaruthaNaatu Ilavarasi (came several years later) was very
primitive in his dialogues. 

Thanks
 					Rengi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil