HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jangus@alnitak.usc.edu (Jim Angus)
Subject: Letter to CO Tourist Board
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 16:39:03 PST
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I sent the following letter to the CO Tourist Board today after reading
the article on the guy in Colorado Springs who killed himself.


																	11/11/92


Colorado Office of Tourism
1625 Broadway Suite 1700
Denver, CO  80202

Re:  Passage of Amendment 2

Ladies and Gentlemen,

As chairperson overseeing recreational outings for the Gay and Lesbian section
of the Sierra Club, Angeles Chapter, I  have decided to dissuade members from
planning trips to Colorado.  I had scheduled an outing in April for 25 people to
Mesa Verde National Park.  I have changed the destination to Chaco Canyon, New
Mexico.  I have initiated this policy in response to the recent passage of
amendment 2 to the Colorado constitution.  The amendment seriously infringes
upon the rights of gay and lesbian people and should not be tolerated.  

I read an article extracted from today's Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph
titled "Amendment's OK 'last straw' for Troubled Gay Man.  Suicide Note Places
Blame".  This article is being widely distributed, and will have an impact on
Colorado tourism.  It is being rumored that some national organizations may
suggest a boycott of Colorado's recreational areas.

							Sincerely,
							Jim Angus


	
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: excited@med.unc.edu (Wally German)
Subject: Re: Colorado Cesspool
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:09:49 GMT

>Today I have redeemed all of my shares in the Janus Fund, a prominent 
>Colorado mutual fund.  They were left with no doubt for my reasons for
>withdrawing from their fund.  I have further written to the Aspen Music 
>Festival explaining why I shall not be attending this year nor 
>contributing to their fund.  Further, the purchase of some electronic 
>equipment from Hewlett-Packard will be cancelled.  Their sales 
>representative will be certainly told the reason.  I've always 
>preferred the Tetons anyway.
>
>Colburn Eigen                                H|u> = E|u>

This is admirable!  There are few options that can reach out and
demonstrate our clout as a group like our economic freedom.  Gays
and Lesbians possess a higher degree of discretionary spending ability
(a fact often overlooked by us and them).

It should be the goal of any self-respecting homophile to demonstrate
hir displeasure with this vote by flexing their economic muscle.  Just
for your information the largest deposit in a the largest bank in the
state is that of a Gay couple!!  

Break them, ruin them, bring them down!


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane)
Subject: Re: ***Accessories!!!***
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:13:39 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>What's your favorite kind? Handbags? Belts? Shoes? Watches? Jewelry?
>Any favorite pieces?

i guess that i will get my queer card revoked, but i rarely wear any
accessories at all.  i have no piercings of any kind, almost never
wear the only watch i own, and have no other jewelry.  eek.  i *do*
have belts and shoes, though.

--mike

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Madonna & Luke Perry?
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:39:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.232525.7844@samba.oit.unc.edu>  
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor) writes:
} In the latest edition of YM (my roomate gets it, not me...I 
} wouldn't have even read the disgusting thing if she hadn't 
} pointed it out to me):
} 
} The interviewer asks:  If you were back in high school and 
} Luke Perry sat next to you in class, would you be able to 
} concentrate?
} 
} She answers:  Depends on how cute the teacher was.
} 
} ;-)

She cut him down pretty good that time she was on Arsenio with  
Rosie O'Donnell.  She said, "Yuk!  I don't play with boys who  
pose with guns!" making an allusion to Luke Perry being on the  
cover of Vanity Fair that month posing as a dirty gunslinger ...

Other news:

Madonna is supposedly working on a movie with Harvey Fierstein!

Donald - It's time for some action!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: was1+@pitt.edu (Scott A Wayne)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: San Diego, CA
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:06:53 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


	Hello,
		My name is Wayne and I am 20 years old.  My lover and I will
be traveling to San Diego, CA this December for a week.  He will be 21 at the
time, but I will still be 20.  I would appreciate any information anyone would
have about the gay scene for adults under 21 (ie. Gay Dance Clubs, Gay
Restaurants).  If you have any information, please send me e-mail 
(was1+@pitt.edu) or post a response to this message (a personal reply would
be preferred).  Thank you very much.

							Sincerely,

							Wayne Scott
-- 
 * Wayne A. Scott            !            was1+@pitt.edu              *
 * Student Programmer        !         was1@vms.cis.pitt.edu          *
 * Suthreland Computing Lab  !     Home Phone:  (412) 383 - 9199      *
 * University of Pittsburgh  !     Work Phone:  (412) 624 - 7357      *
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Have there been protests in Colorado?
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:45:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov6.034545.27035
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I'm curious - what sort of direct actions have there been in Colorado?
Any major protests, riots, planned vandalism? Anything?

We're not going to get that news from the papers, so we have to rely
on people in Colorado to tell us.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                      When you expect flutes, it's whistles
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:10:00 GMT

First of all, it was Scott *Madsen*, I believe--I had a copy of
his lovely poster book from some years ago.
Secondly, check out the *two* Marky mark ads right up front in
the latest Esquire (the one with Winona Ryder on the cover).
Keepers, fer sure!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Age-gap relationships
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:53:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.190053.24326@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> 
> 	[OK everyone saying to their terminal "But BBC, you *are*
> stark raving loony"...  be nice!]

But BBC, you *are* stark raving loony. I mean that in the nicest way,
of course.

Robert [who trusts he's still allowed to send e-hugs on soc.motss]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:14:51 PST

In article <BOB.92Nov5190157@dolores.Stanford.EDU>, on 5 Nov 92 19:01:57,
bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:

>
>I've noticed that when the subject of a boycott comes up, some
>conservatives, free-marketeers and/or libertarians are often vocally
>against the boycott.  This seems bizarre to me, for how can someone
>who believes (as I do) that there shouldn't be financial entitlements,
>believe that Colorado is somehow "entitled" to its "fair share" of our
>disposable income (and that of our supporters, as well).  I think even
>a supporter of the usual entitlements would find this "obligation" to
>be ludicrous.
>
It is certainly not the case in general that libertarians are opposed to
boycotts. In fact, because libertarians disapprove of governmental
coercion against private individuals and companies, attempts to change
policy through moral persuasion and boycott are fundamental tools which
can be used. Indeed, the Libertarian Party platform explicitly notes the
right of individuals (and labor unions) to organize and conduct
boycotts.

A secondary question that you raise, however, relates specifically to
Colorado and whether a boycott should be conducted there, and, if so,
against whom should it be conducted. I don't see any issue here of
political ideology, and to me the main questions that need to be
answered with respect to any particular target is whether the targeted
entity contributed in any way to the passage of CO2, and, if not,
whether there is any prospect of the targeted entity being in a position
to redress the wrong done. If the answer is no to each question, I
personally would be disinclined to participate in a boycott of that
entity.

        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:54:45 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <mattm-131192103103@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <101818@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) wrote:

>> Insert the [head] which has less impact on your body's proper functioning.

>> Maybe you can even figure that one out, dreary.

>A veritable nova of wit, you are.

Make that "SUPERnova", sunshine.

>Honey buns, you may be young - but you ain't hot; and you sure as
>hell ain't no star...

Seems to me that my radiant wit has baked your brains...

Get closer to me so I can turn you into a raisin!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: social democracy
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:22:25 PST

In article <1992Nov2.4342.61770@dosgate>, on 2 Nov 92 22:56:58 EST,
"paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:

>
>JB>Tell me some more fables about left-liberal magnanimity toward the poor
>JB>and the homeless.
>
>You've given the city of Santa Monica as an example of a liberal
>government that has failed.  What are your views of the liberal system
>currently operating in Canada?
>
Other than what I've seen through the media and through various
discussions on BBSs and Usenet about the Canadian socialized medical
system, I really don't know all that much about Canada's liberal
system. I doubt that I would prefer it to voluntarism, however.

>I would never claim that it is flawless, but I think that any system
>that can provide food, financial assistance and medical care for its
>citizens is a step ahead of forms of government that permit the
>devestation of inner cities, a growing desperation of the poor, and
>the highest levels of infant mortality in the "free world".
>
All of these things must come at a price, however, and I strongly doubt
that the upper 2% of your society in wealth can manage to pay for all of
your social programs. Every dollar taken away from a poor or middle
class family represents a need or a want that the family can no longer
afford. It's not as though the government actually creates any wealth.

I strongly suspect that Canadians pay a much higher percentage of their
incomes in taxes than our 47%. This despite the fact that we have for
many years borne the costs of a bloated military budget in our
ill-chosen role as policeman of the world -- a burden which the citizens
of your country did not have to bear to anywhere near the same degree
as we. Had all of this money been able to remain in the pockets of the
people who earned it, many of the social problems such as homelessness
would be considerably reduced.

Another factor that must be considered is that we receive many more
immigrants proportionately than does Canada. Many of them do not pay
their way and increase the strain on the public coffers. I'm sure this
also has an effect on whatever measures of relative standard of living
are available as well.

>Paul D. Bobbitt
>---
> ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #7722 ~ Int: paul.bobbitt@canrem.com  GEnie: P.BOBBITT
>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
From: danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Depression and anger
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:52:59 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I'm glad to discover that I'm not the only one who is depressed about the 
election.  I thought it was just me.  I kept wanting to kick myself.  Afterall,
I had worked hard for Clinton here in Georgia and he won.  I should be happy.
But I'm not.  I'm depressed about Colorado.  And I'm angry about the hatred
that appears to be growing all over our nation.

As a gay Christian I am particularly depressed.  Although my personal
relationship with God is the most important thing in my life, I found myself
questioning if it would have been better for the world if Christ had never
come.  Christians seem to be the major source of the hate.  Would there not be
a lot less hatred in the world if there were only less Christians?  It hurts.

The best way I know how to deal with the depression is to continue working for
change.  In many ways this election was painful.  The best way to handle that
pain is to keep working for a less painful tomorrow.  At least the "kinder,
gentler" president is gone.  Maybe now Clinton can start to build what Bush
only talked about.  
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: ***Accessories!!!***
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:54:42 GMT

What's your favorite kind? Handbags? Belts? Shoes? Watches? Jewelry?
Any favorite pieces?

John, trying to make Arne's soc.motss.real.world a better place
(and who's been drooling over shoes'n'jewelry lately)

(motss-relevance: puh-LEASE!!!)

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46433 alt.bbs.lists:1428 soc.bi:14725
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.bbs.lists,soc.bi
Subject: GayCom (was: The Gay & Lesbian BBS List -- November 1992)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:45:23 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, New Jersey, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

A lot of the local gay BBSs have some sort of fidonet-like connection
called "GayCom".  Does anyone know if there is a way to get to those
BBSs from the Internet?

Tom
-- 
  "TUESDAY, NOVEMBER THIRD" is an anagram for "MANY VOTED, BUSH RETIRED!!!"
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
B0 f+ t w c- d g k+ s+ m- e++ h r-- p              Clinton '92  Clinton '92
S7/2 b+ g l+ y z- n++ o++ x++ a-- u+ v+ j+ PIG8/5  Clinton '92  Clinton '92!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: ckincy@mcs213j.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 03:27:30 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov13.173526.12933@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles Kirby) writes:
                    ^^^^^
>In article <1992Nov13.144507.1234@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>>ck> Charles Kincy
              ^^^^^
>>gs> Gary Strand
>>
>>ck> Well, see, it would be nice to be able to extend FOA privledges to every-
>>    one.
[...]
>
>BZZZZZZT.
>
>I'm sorry, but you have chosen the wrong contestant.  While I'm sure
>I probably wholeheartedly agree with anything anyone has to say (as
>long as it's contrary to what you say),  I cannot take credit for
>these things you have so kindly attributed to me.

Oops.  It appears that there is another poster who has the same name
as me.  Except, of course, for two characters.  

As a result, I would suggest that Gary use a different attribution
scheme.  *8)

cpk <- that's K-i-n-c-y
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46651 talk.politics.misc:59011 ca.politics:9444
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Date: 8 Nov 1992 17:02:24 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.004823.3211@u.washington.edu> 
tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:

> If one could estimate the number of gay men who get married, and the
> number of straight men who never marry, one should be able to get a
> reasonable estimate of the number of gay men based on the number of
> men who never marry (which is where most gay men should be) adjusted
> for the number of do marry and the number of straights who don not.

Oh piffle.  You want to know how many homosexual men there 
are in the United States?  I'll tell you how many: there are 
exactly 17,345,658 gay men in the United States today.  There 
are another 12,876,213 bisexual men, for a grand total of 
30,221,871 men with homosexual inclinations.

Any other questions?

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Ugly sounds
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:28:54 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov5.091318.6675@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
wrote:
> 
> In article <mattm-041192170330@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> >So which is it, Pootsie?  Laughably ineffectual or a distraction?
> 
> There's a difference?

Why, yes, darling.  If - as Parkinoots maintains - my sole excuse for
existence is the provocation of others into dialog, no matter how
irrelevant, then these continuing chirps are proof of having been
successful.  And so I am either a distraction - whereby people
take the time to respond and therefore validate my existence; or,
I am laughably ineffectual - which is to say 'without effect' - 
which is to say, ignored.

If dearest Pootsie wishes to stress his point about ineffectiveness,
I'm afraid he shall have to sigh loudly, flop his hips, flutter his
nails, and exit the room in a fit of utter disgust, feather boa
fully in tow - leaving me no sound board off which to bounce.

(remember that one, Dolphie?  I believe it was circa May...)

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.flame
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
	<1992Nov10.002439.23928@spdcc.com> <1992Nov10.042538.22775@netcom.com>
	<1992Nov10.183156.24715@spdcc.com>
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:31:32

In article <1992Nov10.183156.24715@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob
Donahue) writes: 

   solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:

   >But... but... he was right, wasn't he? CO-2 isn't nearly as bad
   >as OR-9. OR-9 would have mandated state homophobia, and made it
   >required curriculum in state-run schools. CO-2 just struck down
   >antidiscrimination laws. CO-2 is bad, but OR-9 would have been
   >much worse.

   [...]

   >Okay, you guys win. CO-2 is just as bad as OR-9. And herpes is
   >just as bad as AIDS. And scratchy wool is just as bad as
   >polyester...

	   Oy, which part of "duh" eludes you?

	   Let's try it on a real simple level: when matters of
   oppression are involved there is no relative "bad".  It
   exists, that is enough to serve that it needs to be eliminated.

Ratcrap.  Oppression in the US now is real, intolerable and should
be eliminated.  Oppression of people in Nazi Germany was also real,
intolerable, and should have been eliminated.  Does it follow that
there is no difference between the two?  No.

Does the fact that the US is in some sense "better" than Nazi Germany
excuse in any way US oppression?  No.

Does the fact that I claim some forms of oppression are less extreme
than other mean I think the less extreme forms are to be accepted?
No. 

Do you have any concrete reason to believe Andrew would have answered
those questions any differently than I did --- besides a desire to
flame him (ineptly, I might add) for what you want to think he
believes?

	   Or for the MSNS level: bad is bad, OR:9 is bad, CO:2
   is bad.  You can even do a Bush impresison to say the bad-thing if you
   want.  Just keep repeating it until it sinks in.  You don't need
   to compare them, in fact deciding one isn't so bad is *exactly* what
   Lou Sheldon wnats you to do... Lou who?  Look it up dearie.

	   Then get involved.

Being involved?  Is that anything like stomping through soc.motss like
a bear with a thorn in its paw, snapping and snarling at anyone who
dares to disagree with you?  *I'm* impressed.

Nobody here has said "oh, CO:2 isn't *that* bad, why bother to do
anything about it" in this little flamewar you've decided to try and
start.

The fact that a great many people *are* willing to put up with (or
turn a blind eye toward) a lesser evil, as shown by the respective
elections, does not mean there is no such thing as a "lesser evil".
It simply means that there are a lot of stupid, shallow and/or
malicious voters who will buy into such rationalizations.

- Bob  
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:49:45 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Nov5.054613.15896@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>In article <Bx5txH.IsI@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>>
>>Now run along and post to alt.bigfoot.  He exists,
>>you know.  

>Not any more.  He was blown up in that big volcanic eruption. 

Which one?  Krakatoa, East of Java?

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 04:31:03 GMT


In article <1992Nov10.040346.11316@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <45552@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>>yes, Parc did invent the mouse

>you mean Apple didn't? I thought they invented the combustion engine,
>the mouse, and the GUI!

Not to mention that suburban miracle, Melmac.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>