HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:21:34 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <BxK7Jo.3ws@world.std.com> gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:

>The only suit I'm aware of is the turd who sued Chouinard because he fell
>from his harness or something. So now, everything from quickdraws to
>Tubers to ropes and helmets comes with a tag or sticker that says "If you
>use this you may die." Well, fine, but I rip all of them off as soon as
>possible, and every time I see one I'm reminded that Chouinard was
>essentially removed from the hardware biz by some twit who is probably now
>off in the Alps checking the stock pages of The Herald Tribune.

Actually it was not the climber who sued but his family.  He died from
the fall.  He was a high profile lawyer from Houston Texas.  Now is
that natural attrition or what.

Personally it is not so such the trial lawyers as it is people in
general who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Some people
today want a perfect world and they expect it to be handed to them on
silver platter.  There have been some interesting articles on creating
no-rescue wilderness areas.  This summer I happen to be one on the
lucky ones to survive all accidents on Denali (my partner and I were
hit by a massive serac fall due to an earthquake).  I hated like hell
to call in a helicopter to get us off the mountain, but my partner was
injured in the avalanche and I was not going to be able to get him down
to the glacier on my own.  Normally the National Park Service picks up
the tab on the rescues unless you do something really stupid (like
call for a rescue because you are tired of being on the mountain -
which has happened).  Well we paid (via our insurance) for the rescue
when we were not required to.  Further, we even spent another $1000+ to
retrieve all of the gear that had been left on the mountain during the
rescue.  Personally everybody who goes out to play in the woods should
be willing to accept the fact they might die out there due to their
own stupidity or due to grizzly bear.  If you can not accept that fact
then you should stay home.  I will also say that people you guide
should make that fact very clear to their clients before accepting to
guide them.

Time to get off the soap box, cheers,


Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:35:10 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov12.102014.22677@hellgate.utah.edu>,
allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>
> Also tieing off your friends is easy and is fairly standard. Just tie
> a sling into the trigger slot in the shaft of the friend.  For more
> information you check out alt.sex.bondage ;-).
And for OW technique check out alt.sex.S&M.  Last Saturday morning
we got out of out tents and found one of our party sorting gear.  He
had a bunch of ancient tube chocks that must have had Choinard's
(how do spell that anyway?) own personal finger prints on them.  He
also draged out a couple of bongs slung with tie-off.  The rest of
us drew straws -- the loser got to be his partner.  (This guy is the
youngest person I know who caims to have started out with closeline
and Army surplus pitons.
>
> For large cracks you can always used a 2x4 as a wedge to cam against.
>
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Direct Euro-belays
Date: 5 Nov 1992 15:23:15 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov5.215307.12578@megatek.com>,
max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) writes:
>>
>
>  So. You belay your partner directly to the anchor without being
>  tied in to the rope yourself? If not, then how is it that you will
>  have a chance to 'solo' off the rock if your partner takes a fall
>  which rips the anchor out? If you are tied in, you are going where
>  your partner goes, whether you like it or not! If you are not tied
>  in you could lose a fall through the anchor just by letting go of
>  the rope (your partner would take a grounder). You are either
>  confused, insane or both. I would never climb with you and I doubt
>  anyone else would. I'll have my partner tied to me at all times,
>  I'll belay him through me by way of an anchor that would hold us
>  BOTH in ANY situation, thank you very much.
>
I think this is Brtish humor.  Even your grandmother could 'solo
off' a belay at Stanage.  As for those sea cliff climbs just take a
deep breath and go for it! (Don't forget to leave your rack behind.)
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Martin Fahje!
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:10:26 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Martin-
        I tried three times to email you today and there was no luck.  I went
to the advising center to find out what the problem was and they told me that
the link between you and me are not working for some reason.  I will try again
at 11:00 on Wed.  If you don't have anything by 11:10 try to write me.  If I
can't get ahold of you I'll have to post again.  I hate writing long letters
and not being able to mail it.  I'll be back at the computer at 2:00 so try to
write me before 2:00. 
                                Thanks,
                                        Paul Jacobson


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: srclark@happy.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 10 Nov 92 12:09:54 MDT

Rainer Malzbender writes:


**** CRAP about Cali attitudes and Colo supremacy DEleted ****


>On a slightly less humorous note, my (ex-)partner once *did* ground off pitch
>1 of T&G. Unfortunately for my reputation as a belayer, he was seconding and
>I was belaying. Might have something to do with why he stopped climbing.
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't blame him a bit. Glad my original partners were competent.

>I had just gotten to that uncomfortable band atop pitch 1 (before I
>knew you could do pitches 1 & 2 together) where I decided to just slap
>on a hip belay since he had our only belay device. Bad move. He peeled
                                                    ^^^^^^^^
No shit! Multi-pitch with one belay-RAPPEL device??  

>off about a third of the way up, and the rope proceeded to cut two thick
>grooves into both of my hands. Fortunately the friction provided by my
>searing tissue was enough to gently ease him to the ground with barely
>a thud. (I should have mentioned that he was overweight at about 220 lbs.)
>With blood dripping down my hands I soloed the rest of the climb ... no,
>wait, that's not true -- I bailed off.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^

What did you do jump? You didn't have a rap device! Jesus, you're scary.

Steve
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Fanny Bullock-Workman (was K2)
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:29:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.BxB1x3.6vD
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]


gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de (Struan Gray) wrote:

> Fanny Bullock-Workman
>
>  Enough rambling.  I'd like to end with a question.  In Britain
>only climbing bibliophiles like myself have heard of Fanny B-W.
>Is she better known in the States?  If not, why not?
>
>Struan

I vaguely remember somebody named Fanny who was an early woman mountaineer
(*where* did I read that.....)

What do you know about her Struan?

--Bobbie Morrison
  Hewlett-Packard
  Cupertino, CA

  morrison@cup.hp.com
From: alley@argon.berkeley.edu (Rod Alley)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: 12 Nov 1992 03:55:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.berkeley.edu

In article <eric.721520600@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) wr
ites:

|> post said description or a reference to one.  The Chouinard case is the
|> only one I know of, and I haven't seen the complete details here or elsewhere

Since it's come up, could someone post the Chouinard lawsuit story,
or list some references for it?

Rod Alley
alley@argon.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:14:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov06.001037.20078@news.mentorg.com> jane_merrow@mentorg.com writes:
>
>-- 
>
>My husband and I started rock climbing last fall, and are
>now avid climbers, and continuing to improve technically all
>the time (very satisfying).  Here's my question.  We're both
>40 years old (darn, all those years we could have been climbing
>but didn't know) and are wondering how aging affects
>climbing abilities.  I assume strength and balance diminish
>sometime along the way, and that one might have to be satisfied
>with lower-difficulty climbs.  Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
>old climbers out there?  How many years climbing do we have left? 

Bob Kamps is about 60; supposedly he can lead 5.12.
Allen Steck is 66 and leads in the mid-10's.  Both of these folks
(and most of the others I have known since the early sixties, who
still climb) are at the peak of their leading ability now, 
except for the really strenuous stuff.

John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
From: bowen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Fall Factor
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:58:14 GMT
Distribution: rec.climbing
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <Bxo9p9.FnH@acsu.buffalo.edu> bowen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Devon E Bowen) writes:
>Now that mail from mira is working I thought you might like to see this
>guys sig...

********Blush********

Sorry. That was supposed to be mailed to a friend of mine who would enjoy
the Outward Bound quotes in the sig. Someone must have swapped my 'F' key
with my 'R' key. 8-)

Devon
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Thanks for the advice on shoes!
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:49:22 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

I would like to thank all the great climbers that wrote to me about there
advice in getting shoes.  I was impressed with the respect of the fellow
climbers, it must come from trusting belayers.  Thanks again, I'm not quite as
ignorant now.
                                Paul Jacobson
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Yes, we do exist
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:03:45 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

(Laura complains about no postings from outside the US, then
writes:

:> I'm knocking off work and going to Harrison's Rocks if it's
:> sunny tomorrow. A bit tame, I know, but at least it's a rock. 

In article <7iePTB4w165w@stam.nl> nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp) writes:

:I agree though that some information on climbing in Europe is definitely 
:lacking here. It's up to us to rectify that. So all you european readers 
:of this newsgroup, Let's hear it!!
 
:I am of to the belgian ardennes in a two weeks again. Climbing in Freyr 
:for the first time. Up till now I have only been climbing in Austria, in 
:Germany and in Belgium (in Dave).


Could it be that our non-US readers are too busy climbing to post
here?

(Color me green with envy.)
From: mzp24@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Marshall Pease)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: yes, we do exist
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:27:17 GMT
Reply-To: mzp24@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Marshall Pease)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Thus (Brendan Murphy):
>I'm feeling pretty chuffed with myself for getting a decaying 
   Orion on the air,
   
Personally I would be glad if You People post more.  I can't always
tell what you're talking about, but it's fun to read.  "chuffed"!
Has to do with the sporting life, I spoze; BBC World News is 
Not Like This.

On the subject, Relieved to see that this thread was not in reply
to the "Open Letter".  *THOSE* people of course *DON't* exist,
except over on those *other* groups (where I know where to find
them)                                        ..... ;-), dammit! ;-)!

**************  -mars  ********************************************************
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:34:52 -0500 
From: Mark Jakubowycz <mj00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Upstate NY climbing

I will be visiting my folks in upstate New York in January. I would like
to climb in the high peaks. What equipment will I need. I am not really
familliar with the climactic conditions. Do I need snowshoes, crampons,
ax...????


Any help will be appreciated..
             [                        |    A boat is a hole in   ]
             [   Mark Jakubowycz      |    the water surrounded  ]
             [ (mj00+@andrew.cmu.edu) |    wood into which one   ]
             [                        |    throws money.         ]

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Subject: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:06:55 GMT

In article <TIMSC.92Nov10162112@aspen.cfsat.Honeywell.COM> timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com writes:

}you can always rap with a meunter(sp?) hitch IF you have to!
}a krab brake would twist the rope less though

What's a "krab"?  Is it something related to coastal climbing?


--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
                   We are the Cro-Magnon of the future!
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Help in chosing shoes.
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:20:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.BxB1Hq.6qJ
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu wrote:
: It seems no one answered my request for advice on climbing shows.  After
: ascending a 5.9 in hiking boots I realized that climbing shoes are a must.  I
: have looked at some 5.10's in last springs REI magazine for $99.  Do you think
: that I would be satisfied with them.  Also, is it worth investing in 5.10's
: since you can buy a resoling kit?  I will be climbing limestone bluffs
: with quite a few cracks, pockets and overhangs.
: 

Paul,

Climbing shoes are a very individual thing, AND there is alot of
information of the various types and brands in the climbing magazines.

For what its worth:  I started on Boreal Ballets and *loved* them.
(Boreal is the brand name, ballet is the model of shoe.)
They are a really good beginner to intermediate shoe.  The are fairly
stiff, but they work well for smearing and edging (my favorite).
(I still use them.)

Also, you can resole just about any shoe.  It doesn't have to be a 5.10
shoe.  I have a pair of Ace's (Boreal) that I got resoled immediately
after I bought them because I like Stealth rubber better.  There are
many shops around the country that do professional resole jobs. (See the
5.10 Stealth ad in the climbing magazines for the shops and their addresses.)

I've also found that different brands of shoes will fit the shape of my
foot differently.  For instance, all of Boreals shoes (Ballets, Aces) fit 
my feet well.  Dolomites have a high arch support but the toe pocket kills
my foot.  5.10 (Razors is all I have experience with) can fit my foot but
I have to be very careful to get my toe in the right place with my Razors.
(Part of that is because they are so damn tight!)

Some of my friends have the 5.10 all-around boot (is that the one called
"Vertical"?)  and they like them fine.  I think thats the shoe
John Morton uses and he is a hardman climber . ;-)  (Is that your shoe
John???)

Good luck.  If you are having trouble finding a good selection you 
should get a Mountain Tools catalog. (They used to be in Carmel, CA
but they may have moved. Try calling information, area code 408.)
Unfortunately you really need to try them on. (But I think both REI and
Mountain Tools will allow you to return them as long as you don't climb
in them.)

--Bobbie Morrison
  morrison@cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject:  Re: "You know you're old when" revisited 
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:06:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov06.001037.20078@news.mentorg.com> jane_merrow@mentorg.com writes:
>
>-- 
>
>My husband and I started rock climbing last fall, and are
>now avid climbers, and continuing to improve technically all
>the time (very satisfying).  Here's my question.  We're both
>40 years old (darn, all those years we could have been climbing
>but didn't know) and are wondering how aging affects
>climbing abilities.  I assume strength and balance diminish
>sometime along the way, and that one might have to be satisfied
>with lower-difficulty climbs.  Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
>old climbers out there?  How many years climbing do we have left? 
>
>Another side question, how many folks out there climb with
>their spouses?
>
>-----------------------------
>Jane Merrow, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Portland, Oregon

Well, I'm 37 and I expect to be climbing a good many years yet (though my 3
kids are putting a SERIOUS cramp in my climbing; actually my current plan has
one of them dragging me up ASTROMAN in about 15 years).

Also, John Gill is still cranking away well into his 50s. And I used to see
Fritz Weissner doing routes in the Gunks when he was in his 70s. 

As long as your climbing enjoyment doesn't depend crucially on a climb's grade
(and the continual escalation thereof), I think you can almost climb 'til you
drop. Quick reflexes are not a key factor in climbing while strength and
endurance (and technique) can be maintained pretty well (though increasing them
gets harder). 

Lots of rock jocks move on to Alpinism as they get older (e.g. Bridwell,
Rowell). Bridwell's around 50 now. Climbing had 2 part series a few years back
on climbing after 30 (or something like that). I remember feeling encouraged (
"Well, Bridwell's older than me; Rowell's older than me; etc."). 

I think it is pretty reasonable to climb up to 5.11 or so for quite a while.
The main limitation (IMHO) is that climbing competes with so many other things.
When you're young, it's much easier to channel most of your energies into one
thing. If you can still do that, you shouldn't have much trouble.

-Steve Strickland
From: ufessex@mcl.ucsb.edu (Fabian E. Schonholz)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Law Suits!!
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:45:42 GMT

Law suits is the only thing I hear when it comes down to selling gear or 
building an out side wall that is worth the money put into it. Same thing
when it comes down to climb in pribate land. Land owners do not want the
trubles, and us the *climbers* have to pay for it by not having acces to 
a probably many good climbing areas. As someone else said in this group,
which is probably not abelian for what I have read so far, these laws
regarding liability suck big (something, it depends your gender and sexual
orientation, all cases contemplated, and left to thei own doing, basically
I do not care what you do with your extremities and orifices, this was in
answer to other posting, but tjis is a good place post for it too). It 
should be understood that you climb at your own risk, and if you do not
seek propper instruction before undertaking, or overtaking, climbing, then
you are an idiot, or you have steal balls, but I would go for the first one.

America has gotten greedy, and it is collapsing under its own waigth, maybe
what it needs is some backups to keep the top rope from failing, hope that
Clinton knows what he is doing and that is not a tipical fucking democrat.
but someone that actally cares not about the power of the party or his own
pocket.

Appologies for mispellings, it is obvious that i was not born here and that
English is my 5th language, so, appologies again. By the way, please no
flames, but intelligent comments, even if you are not in agremment with me.
What I mean, there is no need to get insultive about anything, we could 
carry a good conversation without the rigors of attacks.

I belong to the net, I hope I find my way out of it before it consumes me.

Fabian.-
--
Fabian E. Schonholz
ufessex@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu.us
fessex@cs.ucsb.edu.us
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Yes, we do exist
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 08:40:55 CET
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:

> (Laura complains about no postings from outside the US, then
> writes:
> 
> :> I'm knocking off work and going to Harrison's Rocks if it's
> :> sunny tomorrow. A bit tame, I know, but at least it's a rock. 
> 
> In article <7iePTB4w165w@stam.nl> nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp) writes:
> 
> :I agree though that some information on climbing in Europe is definitely 
> :lacking here. It's up to us to rectify that. So all you european readers 
> :of this newsgroup, Let's hear it!!
>  
> :I am of to the belgian ardennes in a two weeks again. Climbing in Freyr 
> :for the first time. Up till now I have only been climbing in Austria, in 
> :Germany and in Belgium (in Dave).
> 
> 
> Could it be that our non-US readers are too busy climbing to post
> here?
> 
> (Color me green with envy.)

Dachstein mountains, Austria this year summer, Eiffel mountains in 
Germany in spring (four hours drive for me) and several times climbing in 
Dave, Belgium this year (two-and-a-half hours drive). All in all maybe 
four weeks together. So you see I don't climb THAT often :-)


      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: leeja@rtsg.mot.com (James B. Lee)
Subject: Red Rocks request
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:24:49 GMT

Can someone recommend an up-to-date climbing 
guidebook to Red Rocks in Nevada that contains 
both traditional and sport routes?  Title and
publisher would be appreciated.

Thanks!
James
leeja@rtsg.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climber From Iowa.
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:19:25 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

I'm sorry to you guys that wrote me on Nov 5.  I must have deleted your letters
before I could e-mail you back.  I know someone wrote me about some climbs in
Monticello, can you write me back?!!  I also talk with a couple of guys from
Rochester Mn., can you write me back too?!!  

                                Sorry,

                                        Paul