HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:11:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.224229.24386@morrow.stanford.edu>,
GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>In article <BvpvAr.23y@news.larc.nasa.gov>,
>patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
>>
>>Where did you get this? Maybe I don't get it, but what it seems to
>>me that you're describing is a bad half pass. In a leg yield, the
>>horse is bent *away* from the direction of movement with the forehand
>>leading slightly, in a half pass, he is bent *into* the direction
>>of movement, with the forehand leading slightly. Haunches leading
>>                                                                                                 ****************
>>in a half pass is a major fault. That's what every book I ever read
>>*******************************
>>says, anyway. And it makes sense because if the haunches are leading,
>>then the horse doesn't have to really engage their hind legs to cross
>>to get the sideways movement.
>>
>>Since you're not the first to describe a half pass as a leg yield, it
>>leads me to ask,"what am I missing?" Are terms getting mutated? Or
>>am I just being too much of a purist?
>>
>>patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov
>>
>>=================================================================
>

And another thing, Patty, maybe it just FEELS like the haunches are
leading when they are engaged. The whole point of what I was saying
is that it's MOST important not to let the horse just pop his
shoulder out and 'walk over to the left.' The haunches have to be
engaged in order to accomplish anything, and at first sometimes you
have to exaggerate it in order for him to understand what it is you
want him to do. Pretty soon you can ease into doing it more
correctly, that is, relatively straight.

Okay! Sorry to take up so many posts, but I kept thinking of
different ways to put what I meant. Who is it who has that by-line:

I know that you think you know what I meant, but what I said doesn't
mean what I thought you meant I said.

Whatever.

=gwyn
From: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Trailer Mats
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:00:07 GMT
Reply-To: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Organization: Intel Corporation, Hillsboro, OR


Does anyone know where I can get a trailer mat for my 2-horse trailer?  I have 
called a couple of trailer dealers in the area.  The price they are quoting me 
is around $45 for a mat 60"x72".  I want two mats so they suggest I buy one and
cut it in two.  

My question is (actually I have several):

1.  Is $45 a reasonable price.  It does not seem too bad to me but I have not
priced mats before. 

2.  Are the mats hard to cut.  I thought it would be easier to handle
two mats 30"x72" instead of one mat 60"x72".  One dealer said they were hard
to cut but another said they were easy with a utility knife.

3.  Is there a mail order catalog I can order from that might have better
prices.  I have been looking in some of the horse catalogs for the last 
several months but have not seen anything advertised.

4.  Is there anything else I should be considering?  What thickness should I
get?  One dealer said the mats come in 1/2" and 3/4" thickness with no price
difference.  I find that hard to believe.  

5.  Is there anything else on the market that could be used instead of
"horse trailer" mats.  i.e. my husband is in the restaurant business and he
suggested getting some non-slippery floor mats that restaurants use in kitchens
which would probably be cheaper.  However, I argue that they would not hold up
under the weight of a horse.  Any ideas?

I want what is best for Reba without spending any unnecessary money (don't we
all!!!)

***************************************************
	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com
***************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rewald@stsci.edu
Subject: Knee Patch info
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:50:04 GMT

Awhile back, someone was asking about replacement suede knee patches.  I 
finally found my SuitAbility catalog, so here is what they have in the
way of patches:
  Medium weight suede leather. 2-3 oz cowhide, in grey, sand, black, navy.
                   $7.00 for knee patches
  Smooth leather in white for full seat inserts, also suitable for rough-out
                    use as knee patches.  
                   $13.00 knee patches
  Super abrasion resistant cotton/poly flocking.  Has brushed surface bonded
                    to backing.  Extremely easy to sew and lasts forever.       
                    Machine wash, *line* (not machine!) dry. Buff, grey, black.
                   $3.50 knee patches.

They also sell larger pieces to use as jod reinforcements, inner thigh patches
and full seat inserts.  Of course, the prices go up accordingly.  (Oh yeah, I 
have a "late 1991" catalog, so there may be other things available.)

Suitablility, 1355 West 89th Street, Cleveland, OH 44102
phone 1:00pm - 5:00pm monday-friday   (216) 631-1136

Hope this is usefull!     Rosalie
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sharono@bach.udel.edu (Sharon Orlowsky)
Subject: Trucks 'n' trailering
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:04:02 GMT

Distribution:world 



About what to pull your trailer with ...

When I was in junior high and high school, the people at my barn
used to pull our two-horse trailer with a regular car (large
size sedan).  To my knowledge it had no special engine or
anything.  We were only going a few miles away, though.  But we
used to put two horses in the trailer.
From: gerbaudo@jorasses.inria.fr (Pascal Gerbaudo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: teaching
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:42:09 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

Hi.

I would like to know if in the differents countrys in the 
world one must have a state diploma, delivered by the state, 
for teaching equestrian and earn money.
In France, for example, it's an obligation. In Belgium, I know
that a federal one is equivalant.

Thank's a lot.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lbishop@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Linda Bishop)
Subject: Sentimentality at its worst (or best)
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:47:16 GMT



I want to share an unfortunate experience I had this past
weekend.

When I was 13 my grandfather gave me a two year old
Quarter Horse (Hank). Hank is now 19 (you can calc. my age).

Four years ago, due to my financial situation I could afford`
to care for only one horse.  I chose my much younger Anglo-
Arabian dressage horse and 'leased' Hank to a man for pleasure 
riding. The deal was he took over Hank's care with the 
understanding (I thought) that I would take Hank back at some
time in the future.

I went out to visit every six months, always finding Hank in
good form and the man happy with the situation.  I then got
lax in my visits and it`s been a year ago last May since I
went out.

This last Saturday, 9/26, I was in the area and went by to 
see Hank and the man said that since he hadn't seen me in some 
time he thought I was no longer interested and he had
SOLD Hank.
 
Jim's side of the story was that a high school kid came looking
for a 4-H horse and Jim offered Hank free if it was a good
home(he says he checked), but the boy had been saving his
money and his Dad wanted him to recognize the value of the 
horse so they paid.    

I believe, and will until proved otherwise, that Jim thought  
he was acting in Hank's best interest and that as long as 
he went to a good home I would be happy.  Jim offered me the
money and called the people to explain.

I have talked to them breafly and will go out next Sat. to 
meet them (i.e. check them out)

If the place checks out and Hank looks good, I'll probably leave
him there until the kids are out of 4-H or Hank gets too old to
ride then bring him home.  This time with a written contract.
The good side is if this is a good place for him, he'll thrive on 
the attention. (I have grad school, work, and my Anglo).

I still hold his registration papers, and I don't know if they 
even know he's registered.

Hank has taken such good care of me all these years that I
always thought I would take care of him in his old age.  I felt
like I abandoned him 4 years ago and I feel even worse now. 

Any comments or suggestions?

Linda 





Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Sentimentality at its worst (or best)
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Keywords: 

From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:32:43 GMT
Subject: Re: showing my filly in dressage show (was: grooming for show)
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian



Congratulations on your show, Tracy. Sounds like Mithril made a good
impression.

Your post raises an interesting issue regarding sporthorse breed shows.
There are many people who think that the judge really has no business
asking the competitors about their horse's breed and bloodlines, at least not
until after the horse has been judged. At most of the breed shows in CA
the show management purposely waits until after the horse is judged
before announcing which horse and handler are currently in the ring.
The idea is that the horse should be judged by it's merits, not by 
which registry it belongs to. One of the judges at a big breed show
in CA did exactly what you described, even asking handlers what the 
specific bloodlines were. Many of the exhibitors were upset by this and
complained to the management. Any views on this subject from netland?

Of course some breed prejudice is unavoidable, since judges are only
human. Especially since warmbloods wear their registry on their left
hip :-)


Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick)
Subject: Sporadic Chronic Lameness
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:38:36 GMT

Hello Fellow rec.equestrians!

I am completely stumped and am looking for some advice concerning a sporadic
chronic lameness in my usually sound Appaloosa Ghost.  About 6 to 8 weeks ago,
we were taking our usual Saturday ride, when I noticed a very slight head bob.
I got off to see if he had picked up a stone, or if a shoe was loose, and 
could find nothing wrong. Now, this horse is prone to stone bruising, he has
four white hooves, so I always have shoes and pads on his front feet. The backs
I left barefoot, he has seldom had back feet problems. But this head-bobbing
appeared to correlate to the right hind leg. There is no heat or swelling in theleg, and no apparent signs of injury (kick marks, etc.).

So, I decided to give him some time off, and limited his activity to a small
turn-out pen. The following weekend I went out to see how he was moving. I put
him on the lunge line and he was sound in both directions. Great! I thought.
So, I tacked him up and took him for a short ride around the field, and in the
arena. He was fine, no head-bobbing. So just for insurance, I did not ride him
for another 5 days. Then tacked him up and took him out down the road. About
10 minutes out and at a slow jog trot, I noticed it again.

To make a long story short, I had the farrier shoe the backs. I have rested him, not rested him, confined him, not confined him, wrapped him and not wrapped him.  I have not called the vet because he appears to be sound on a line, even when being ridden, it would be difficult for a vet to *see* this happening. He doesn't favor the leg. He stands with full weight, he walks out and sound. And at 
times, he trots out and extends nicely.

I am stumped, does anybody have any suggestions on what this might be, or what
else I could try?

Thanks.

Pat Ferrick
Golden Ghost (a very intelligent, beautiful Palomino Appaloosa with four lousy
white feet!)
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Custom Pants
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:29:57 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Oct1.175736.9978@netcom.com> mspace@netcom.com (Brian Hall) writes:
>I have been looking for riding pants on and off for a few months now and
>have not quite found what I am looking for.  It seems even harder because
>most stores only carry womens apparel and order mens.  With prices being
>what they are, and myself being fairly picky, I was wondering how easy
>it would be to get a custom pair made and what cost I could expect.  I would
>really like:
>
>100% cotton (or close to it)
>Black or dark gray
>Button fly (I have *never* seen this in a store period)
>Loose fitting

Being another male rider, I agree with your comment on the lack of
selection.  Millers does carry a fair range of stretch type britches
in men's sizes.  However, I have found (and purchased) a pair that fit
3 of the 4 criteria you list above:

100% cotton
Black (I think are available - mine are tan)
Loose fitting (except around the calf - these are designed for
wearing with boots, so they are tapered at the calf with a velcro
fastener at the ankle.
Sorry, they do have a zipper fly.  Just be careful with wee willy
after you take a squirt ;-) (seriously, why a button fly?)

These are available from Phelan's, out of CA.  I don't have contact
info with me (the catalog is at home), but send me email if you
are interested and I'll post the address next week (unless some
other kind net.soul has it handy and will post it).  I recall paying
around $75.00 for them a year or two ago.  The material is rather like
chinos, though a bit sturdier.  They softened up real nice with
washing, and are very comfortable.  I'd buy a few more pair, except
that I prefer riding in jeans and chaps to britches and boots.

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
						-E. Saliers
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mspace@netcom.com (Brian Hall)
Subject: Re: Custom Pants
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:09:32 GMT

sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON) writes:
>Gosh, Brian, I can't help you--but your post just made me think of
>something that has bothered me for a long time:  it's USUAL to buy
>custom riding shirts, custom chaps, custom boots.  I mean, there's
>even a sense in the horse show world that if you DON'T have these,
>you're kind of out of it  I've ALWAYS been surprised that custom
>breeches aren't also a staple.  I do buy custom boots and custom
>chaps, because the stock women's sizes just don't fit me--but
>this goes for breeches, too.  I bet I try on 10 pair for every one
>pair I buy (and this is after the salespeople in my tack store
>already KNOW my prolems).  I'm not overweight, disproportioned,

Thanks.  I have not found a maker yet, but a source of patterns has
been suggested to me.  I'll summarize the info I get once I think
I have enough.

-- 

 \ | /   | Brian Hall                 mspace@netcom.com
 - : -   | Mark/Space Softworks       Applelink: markspace
  /|\    |                            America Online: MarkSpace
 |-+-|   |
/-\|/-\  | The tornado ate my powerbook.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA)
Subject: founder ????
Keywords: What is it?
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:23:15 GMT

Hi everybody,
	I'm going to plead ignorance on this: What is FOUNDER???
	I dont have any of my horse reference books at ADFA with
	me so I cant look it up.
	Would someone mind filling me in on the causes, symptoms
	side-effects and associated problems of founder please?????
	*BEG*  *GROVEL*

	Many thanks,

	Amanda MacKinnell.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: leading
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:39:00 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <3030359@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM>, wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner) writes:
> In rec.equestrian, sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>     This a sign of a horse that does not respect your space.  You need to make
>     it unpleasant for her to crowd you.  Try carrying a small board with a 
>     tack taped to the end of it.  Let her bump into it, don't poke her with
>     it.  She has to understand that crowding you is uncomfortable.
> 
>     Sue
> 
> 
> Sorry Sue,
> I stongly disagree here.  So far, this horse has been crowding.
> It shows the horse does not know how to lead properly.  Rather
> than going to the extream correction you suggest; how about just
> carrying the riding crop and giving a light tap on the chest to
> slow the horse down, and a light tap on the shoulder to move the
> horse to the side.  If the horse does not respond to a light tap,
> then a more agressive 3 taps (not whips, we're using the but end
> of the crop here) on the chest will do the trick.  
> 
> There is no reason to go to a device that could potentially hurt 
> the horse.  Why take a tack that will penetrate the skin and give
> a sharp pain, when you can use a crop that won't penetrate the 
> skin and can still give a sharp correction?  If the horse won't
> respond to a crop used correctly, it won't respond to all the beating
> in the world (I know Sue didn't mean a beating.  I'm just going
> to the most extream case here.)  
> 

My reasoning from this was so that the horse would find out that the
correction was not coming from you but rather from it's own actions.
The board is just carried under the arm, pointing at the horse's lower
shoulder.  The horse bumps the board, getting a minor prick.  I don't
like to swing a crop around some horses, it spooks them.  My Arab mare
would totally freak out if a crop was swinging in her eye sight but 
accepted very nicely finding out that crowding me wasn't comfortable.


> First the horse needs to know what is expected.  The TEAM method
> described is a good way to teach the horse what is expected.  Then
> the horse needs to learn to obey.  Most horses when they understand
> what to do, will do it.  Only the occasional mean ones will take
> more time, and pushing a mean horse will not get good results.
> 
> Wendy
>
From: regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Another Jumper for Sale
Date: 1 Oct 1992 08:03:00 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com



This is a posting for a friend.  Please respond to the number below if you
are interested. 

Adult amateur or Amateur Owner mare.  9 yr old 16.1 Westphalian/TB cross.
Big presence.  Suitable for jumpers, has lots of power.  Jumps 3'9" courses
currently, potential to go much higher.

Has done training 1 and 2 level Jumpers.  Ready to move up.  

Grey, good conformation, schooled in dressage basics.  Trailers, ties.
Needs a quiet rider -- no whips or spurs necessary.  

$8000           Call (619) 679-0690    ask for Shelley.

San Diego area.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tara@wam.umd.edu (Tara)
Subject: Re: Tail Flag, was questions about Saddlebreds
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:04:50 GMT

Of the horses that I ride...which include a Saddlebred, Arab, Morgan-X, Apps,
TBs and a god-knows-what:  My mare, Darla flags her tail (what little there is)
whenever she is excited (jumps, in heat <at this point her tail lays on her back
for a week>, trail rides).  Majic, Dee, Tommy and Nehi can't come close in tail
flagging compared to this silly mare.



             ,--, | University of Maryland Equestrian Association 
       _ ___/ /\| |
   ,;`( )__, )  ~ | Horses: Quaker, Bud, Playboy, Tommy, Casey, Darla
  //  //   '--;   | 	    Nehi, Classy, Dee, Vern
  '   \     |     | Others: Majic (another horse), Pepin, Pajas,
tara@wam.umd.edu  |         Parsifal and Penny
From: crj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Trucking/Trailers
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:30:35 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

From experience - don't try to tow with a Dodge!!!  Stick with a Ford or Chevy. 
Had an '86 Dodge - 350 or whatever Dodge is, 3/4 ton.  A wimp!  Automatic.
Now I have a 3 horse, Moritz (very light), and nothing to tow it with.  I
ruined our Ford transmission on the 1981, 150 , 4 speed, 1/2 ton pickup.  Had 
to use third gear on most hills, now pops out of third gear.  Don't those of
you that are using a standard shift have trouble shifting down - especially
on hills - without upsetting the balance your horse must maintain?  This neck
of the woods is very hilly.

Carol and "Super" AQH 
g
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:23:14 GMT



...[stuff deleted]

>The item of most importance in a flying change is not the 'cue,'
>it's the balance of the horse and his willingness to move his weight
>AWAY from your leg. In order to do a truly balanced, quiet and fluid
>flying change, he must be able to leg yield in both directions at
>the walk, trot and canter. The important thing about the leg yield
>is that the HAUNCH be leading, rather then the shoulder.  Here's
             ******************************************
>some really horrible aschii art to demonstrate the point:

>View of horse from above (^^= ears, ()=haunches, *=your weight)


> ^ ^                      ^ ^                    ^ ^
>  |                        |                      |
> *\                        |                      /*
>   \                       |                     /
>   ()                     ( )                  ()

>leg yield                straight             leg yield
>to the right                                 to the left

...[stuff deleted]

==================================================================

Where did you get this? Maybe I don't get it, but what it seems to
me that you're describing is a bad half pass. In a leg yield, the
horse is bent *away* from the direction of movement with the forehand
leading slightly, in a half pass, he is bent *into* the direction
of movement, with the forehand leading slightly. Haunches leading
												 ****************
in a half pass is a major fault. That's what every book I ever read
*******************************
says, anyway. And it makes sense because if the haunches are leading,
then the horse doesn't have to really engage their hind legs to cross
to get the sideways movement. 

Since you're not the first to describe a half pass as a leg yield, it
leads me to ask,"what am I missing?" Are terms getting mutated? Or
am I just being too much of a purist?

patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov

=================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: 3 Brenderup
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 20:24:53 GMT

I've always been told that as soon as you're finished using the
trailer to remove the mats, shoveling out any "debris" and allow
to fully dry out, i.e. do not return the mats until they and the
floor are dry.