HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Youth Shooter Questions
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:04 GMT
Organization: Chaos

saksa@col.hp.com (Tom Saksa) writes:

#My daughter, (age 9), has recently returned from a two week kids
#summer camp where she did some conoeing, riding, archery, and
#shooting.  Since then she expressed an interest in learning more
#about target shooting, and I wish to oblige her if it can be done
#reasonably safely.  I am hoping for a bit of advice, and the
#answers to the following questions.

#   1. Is 9 a good age, or should I try to hold off?  I know that
#   this is probably somewhat dependent on the child and other
#   situations.  My daughter is very responsible and I do not under
#   any circumstances plan to allow her any unsupervised time with
#   any firearm! 

Safe, careful instruction can start this early.  Call the NRA and ask them
for their information packets (If you're not a member, join!)  My father
started me target shooting his M-16 at the age of 6.

#   2. What should I use to teach fire arm safety?  I have a Daisy
#   air rifle, and it seems to have the features I would want.  It
#   is singlely loaded in the rear with a bolt like action.  It also
#   has a safely similar to those on many 22 rifles.  I also have
#   a 22 rifle, but it is a semi auto, and may not be a good
#   choice.

As has been suggested, start with the Daisy, and go on to the .22 semi.

In fact, the suggestions I've read so far have been what I would say
precisely.  


Mike


-- 
Michael A. Atkinson       | Isn't it just like a Mac user to
asbestos@nwu.edu          | bring a knife to a firefight.

            A Libertarian and an NRA member.
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Show Observations
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:15 GMT


I attended one of the smaller gun shows (St. Louis area), over the
weekend, and I thought I'd share my observations....

First of all, I need to start bringing more money to these things.
I found three guns that I wanted (well, actually, I found quite a
few more, but these three were within reason).  The first was a
genuine Ruger Standard Model 'Red Eagle.'  This was the original
.22 that started Ruger off.  From 1949-1952, the eagle on the grip
was red.  When Sturm died, they changed to a black eagle.  The man
was wanting $300 for it, which was under blue book value for the
condition it was in....

The second gun was a Seecamp .32 - the first one I've ever seen at
the shows.  The dealer said he had ordered 4, and this was his last
one.  It took over a year to get them.  He was asking $375 for it,
NIB, which seemed reasonable, since I've heard reports of them going
for $450 or so.

The third gun was nothing special - a Garcia y Bronco (or is that
Bronco y Garcia?) .22 rifle.  It's a single shot, constructed of
all metal, with a skeletonized stock.  There is a second trigger
in front of the triggerguard which allows you to open the action.
The man was wanting $75 for it.  I didn't buy it because I don't
know what it's really worth - I can't seem to find it in the Blue
Book.  Can someone help me out here?  It's listed in the Gun Parts
catalog, and apparently was also available as a .22/.410 combo gun.

Now for the general observations....

Since this was a small show, it seemed that everyone and their mother
was an FFL holder.

I love the kids who go to these things.  One was looking at one of
those Daisy .22 rifles, and his dad was trying to tell him it was a
BB gun.  Later, I heard the kid asking a dealer if he had a mini-gun
for sale, like Arnie used in a few movies.  What gets me is that the
father wasn't smiling when the kid said this - I think he actually
believed he'd be able to buy one at the show.

The SKS seems to have peaked - everyone has one, and they're impossible
to sell.  It could have been the size of the show and the fact that most
everyone was a dealer though....we had the lowest price on the SKS, but
it still didn't sell.

Rumor also has it that dealer cost on the SKS will be down to $60 - 70
by the first of the year.

I picked up a copy of the Blue Book of Gun Values, so you won't be seeing
my 'How much is it worth?' posts much anymore...8-)

I also picked up a box of the Yugoslavian 6.5x55 softpoint ammo, and
plan on using it with my sporterized M96 for deer hunting.  Anyone have
any shooting results for this?

Well, that's about it.  There's a larger show this weekend - perhaps
I'll have better luck there trying to sell my guns...

Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: anthrax@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Help. Lots of basic questions.
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:25:00 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University


I just ordered a Ruger SP-101 for a friend of mine who travels from Arkansas to
Iowa a lot, I was wondering about a few questions.
 
1.  Can anyone tell me about the laws pertaining to transportation of firearms
through the states of Missouri, Arkansas and Iowa?
 
2.  What do the statues dealing with deadly force for civilians say for those
states?
 
3.  What does the arkansas criminal code say about home defense? (does it have
on of those damn retreat clauses?)
 
4.  What is the best self-defense load for a .357? Does federal market a
    hyrda-shok round for it? Does another company market something similar?
    Should I just go with the 125 grain +P hollowpoint .38 round?
 
5.  Is there any way to find out if there are self-defense classes in the
    northwestern arkansas area?
 
6.  Can anyone tell me the phone numbers for teh attorney general's offices
    for missouri and arkanasas.
 
7.  Can anyone tell me why sane people are planning to vote for Bill Clinton?
 
If you can answer questions one through six, I would be greatly appriciative. 
Question seven is just a rhetorical bark at the moon...
 
Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger Packaging
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:30:59 GMT


Jerry Hollombe writes:
#What did the warning labels say?

Words to the effect that removing the magazine does not render the
pistol inoperable, and that the correct way to unload it is to remove
the magazine and cycle the slide.

The lack of a "magazine safety" is IMHO a positive feature of Ruger
pistols.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sears shotgun
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:20 GMT

#From:           jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2197)
#Subject:        Sears shotgun
#
#I  have  a Sears 12 gauge pump shotgun from the mid 1970's.   Does  anybody 
#know who was likely to have manufactured this (Savage maybe?),  and how  to 
#tell exactly?   It handles 3" shells and came with two barrels,  one a slug 
#barrel.   I  need  to  replace  the slug barrel and would like  to  have  a 
#starting point for what I'm looking for when calling local shops.
#
#Thanks,
#
#Jim

Jim,

I  have  the most recent catalog by the Gun Parts Corp in West  Hurley  New 
York.   In it is a cross reference that will probably tell us who made your 
gun.  Please give me all the specifics you can, -- model number especially.

Thanks. -- Kev
From: jlw@mtuxo.att.com (Joseph L Wood, Iii)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:01 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <24656@oasys.dt.navy.mil> rollhaus@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Charles Rollhauser) writes:
# 
# In rec.guns, jlw@mtuxo.att.com (Joseph L Wood, Iii) writes:
# #In article <9209042315.AA01955@cs.utexas.edu> MARTYZ@IDUI1.CSRV.UIDAHO.EDU (Mar
# #ty Zimmerman) writes:
# #
# #I have enjoyed reading Donald Hamilton for many years.  I have most
# #of the Matt Helm stuff including on novel where the protagonist is
# #a custom gunsmith with a peculiar ailment and another book of non-
# #fiction called "Donald Hamilton on Guns and Hunting."
#     I thought I had read all of Hamilton's stuff. What's the title of
# the one about the gunsmith?
# 

I'm really glad that you're able to report that Donald Hamilton is alive
and writing.

I'm also sorry that my sentence above is not perfectly clear.  I meant to say
that I have in my collection all but one (now two) in the Matt Helm series as
well as several novels not in the Matt Helm series.  Some of these are:

Line of Fire - referenced book where the protagonist is hired by a machine
politician to take some pot shots at him for a sympathy move, but the
politician gets hit.

Night Walker - Korean War era spy novel set in Maryland countryside.

Assassins Have Starry Eyes - Formerly Assignment Murder - Egghead Nuike
scientist gets shot while on a hunting trip.  It wasn't an accident.  Set
in New Mexico.

The Steel Mirror - Man traveling west after WW II picks up girl on highway.
Spy Stuff.

Murder Twice Told - Two novelettes that I had but lost.

Texas Fever - Western

Iron Men and Silver Stars - Western Short Stories (?)

The Mona Intercept - Modern Sea Pirates

Joe Wood
jw@mtuxo.att.com
From: MARTYZ@IDUI1.CSRV.UIDAHO.EDU (Marty Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:51 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

#  But Matt Helm preferred rifles, and in many of the books did some
#sniper work, usually with a high power bolt action rifle, and usually
#scoped.  I'm sure that at least once it was a .300 Win. Mag., and
#the sighting it in is often mentioned.

You're right.  I also remember a .300 H & H, but I can't remember
the make.

Marty Zimmerman                 Bitnet:   martyz@idui1
Computer Services               Internet: martyz@idui1.csrv.uidaho.edu
University of Idaho
Moscow, Idaho, USA
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Quality of European Block Pistols
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:58:31 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <9209041741.AA29988@gw.wmich.edu> x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
#I am curious as to the quality of some of the European block countries pistols. 
#-Curious about overall quality-- workmanship, reliability, accuracy, etc...

I don't know about their small arms industry specifically, but in you might 
want to note who made it: In general, eastern European manufacturers, in
decreasing order of quality, East German, Czech/Hungarian, Polish, Russian
and (worst of all) Russian export (the Soviets apparently had two standards
of quality control: One if their own troops would be using it, and another
if they were selling it abroad.)

                                                      Frank Crary
                                                      CU Boulder
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: blanks
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:39 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Sep8.162037.10512@edsr.eds.com> edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota) writes:
#Can anyone point me to a source on how to load blanks. The only
#manual I've got is the Speer and it doesn't mention it. I know 
#you need some kind of wadding but I'm not sure what it is.

This worries me somewhat.  Genuine blank pistols are designed ONLY for
blanks.  If however you're thinking of firing "blank" loads in a real
gun be advised that they are NOT by any means "safe", and should be
treated with the same respect as genuine manstopper loads.  (I couldn't
tell which kind of "blank" you meant, and figured better safe than sorry.)
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger Packaging
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:05 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9209102013.aa02981@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

}... Molded into the lid of the box on the inside were words to
}the effect that the pistol came packed with safety instructions and if
}missing write. ...

Ruger has always been good about this.  Their revolvers come with
the same instructions engraved on the barrel.

}... the magazines have affixed to them fluorescent
}orange warning labels. ...

What did the warning labels say?

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Minuteman Holsters?
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:30:54 GMT



Readers,

	I am looking for the number for a holster manufacturer in the Seattle
WA. area.  I had the number but obviously cannot locate it.  The company was
called MinuteMan Technologies.  The material used in their holsters is leather
and they produce a very nice line.

	I appreciate any information that any persons might provide, thank you.

			Jeffd@hls.com   or call 408.925.2634
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: States gun laws
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:25 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:

#I am thinking of moving to another state.  Could any of you please
#comment on gun laws in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado,
#New Mexico, Arizona, Texas or Arkansas.  These are some of the
#possible places I am currently looking into.  Thanks.

Washington is pretty good:  No ATF items, but 3 year CCPs are to be had 
for $30.  Issuance is mandatory within 30 days unless you have a criminal
record.  There is a stupid 5 day wait, but not for CCP holders.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Police Story (was Re: Summary: Concealed Carry...)
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:29:02 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <tssn#gl.damiel@netcom.com> damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos) writes:
#In <1992Sep8.135644.29837@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
##racing through his mind for having shot a suspect in the back. Much to
##his surprise, he finds the perp intact and trembling. The perp says, "I 
##give up! Just don't shoot that thing again!" The concussion had knocked
##him down, not to mention deafening him.
#
#now THAT'S a laugh. if you believe the concussion really knocked him down, 
#and not the *psychological response* to the concussive blast, i have some
#*gauranteed* one-shot-stop ammo i'd like to sell you.... 

Indeed, I'm sure it was the startle factor of the very loud blast in
the confined space that caused him to dive flat. I'm just repeating
the story as told to me. It probably did look like he was blasted
down.

Frankly I'm surprised that no one has commented on how foolish and
dangerous it was to fire that "warning" shot in an urban neighborhood.
If I'd been in charge of that department, my friend would be driving
a desk at best. As it was, he was lucky and the shot didn't hit anyone
and he got away with it.

Gary
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP OUR SCHOOL CLUB- Hunting Shotguns & Plinking 9mm's- Which to buy...
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:08:54 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Sep8.012953.6689@cs.rose-hulman.edu> howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (John G Howard) writes:
#
#	I'm a member of a school sponsered Gun Club that's got a  
#decent amount of cash to purchase several handguns (one's already  
#been decided- Ruger Mark II) and at least one shotgun.
#
#	The problem is, we don't have lots of references and could  
#use some outside assistance in our selections.
#
#	Here's what we know:
#		1.  We want a 9mm single or double action  
#semi-automatic magazine type pistol- preferablly below $600.00.
#		2.  We want a shotgun- maybe pump, maybe auto, maybe  
#dual purpose (shot &/or sabot)- for about $300.00.
#		3.  We've shot the Glock 17 & 19 & love them both (I  
#prefer the 17- it's a little bigger for my larger hands)
#		4.  We know the Ruger pistols are known to be  
#reliable (is this true??)
#
#	Here's what we need:
#		1.  Any suggestions, comments, help, ideas, &/or  
#anything else that you would be willing to offer.
#		2.  Anyone know any really good deals out there??

Insufficient information. What do you want to use these guns *for*?
Gun selection for a target and training club is going to be completely
different than for a hunting club. Gun selection for defensive purposes
is yet again different, and likely not a good use of club guns in any
event.

If your club is going to be a competition club, are you going for three
gun NRA events, practical pistol, etc? You'll need a major caliber like 
.45ACP. The Glock is not a target weapon, nor a hunting weapon. Shotgun
choice is again related to intended use, skeet, trap, or hunting.What
*are* you up to?

Gary
From: kjf9619@rigel.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bags for concealed carry
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:16:58 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services

In article <BH6ZqB1w164w@raley.Gwinnett.COM>, pertinax@raley.gwinnett.COM (Pertinax) writes...
#Is anyone aware of companies that manufacture "bags" with an easy-access
#compartment for a gun?  I don't mean the readily available fanny packs, but
garrand makes a laptop case that is probably exactly what you need.  one
side has two elastic straps that is perfect for almost any handgun.  there
is also a net of webbing and about five pockets and places to keep pencils
and pens.  the other side is just a fairly rigid 12" X 9" X 2" compartment
perfect for a notebook.  the entiere case is only about 12" x 9" x 4".
It is half vinyl, and half nylon.  it is pretty rigid.  For overnighters,
I can keep my 357, my metal clipboard with all of my files, my cellular
phone, electric toothbrush, extra ammo, speed loaders, a belt, holster,
electric shaver, and a ten inch hunting knife to boot.
                               kent
From: howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (John G Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: lock, stock & barrel
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:02 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1234@tekgen.bv.tek.com> dons@eunice.bv.tek.com (don  
schaefer) writes:
# 
# A couple of weeks ago I was looking for a 4 cavity bullet mould.  I 
# started calling around ... I called a place called "Lock, Stock &  
Barrel". ... It was really a nice surprise
# dealing with a company that had friendly people and fast service.
# 
# This is not a paid advertisement ...

	Our Gun Club has dealt with L,S & Barrel also.  We ordered a  
LOT of stuff and really enjoyed how nice they treated us college  
type-youngsters!!

	We are planning on dealing with them more in the future.

	I would send anyone their way!!  (I don't get paid either)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-----
	LaTer DaZe,
		JGH
		John G. Howard
		howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
		Student of Mechanical (Aerospace) Engineering at
		Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
		Terre Haute, IN
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns for sale
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:18 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (David Kardelis- I am the NRA) writes:


#	AMT Lightning 22 pistol. This is a SS copy of the RUGER MarkII. 
#	with 3 mags.			$230 + shipping


I have one of these.  Not only is it as good as a Ruger, imo, it is
great in that grooves for a scope come pre-cut.
From: mld@cblpn.att.com (Michael L Denburg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <EDP.92Aug31174519@roo.sneaks.kodak.com> edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting) writes:
#
#
#Fact #2: yes, there is no recall for guns without this safety.
#If there was a real problem with slides hitting shooters in the face,
#don't you think that beretta, the oldest company in the world
#(oldest company, not just oldest gun company), would recall and 
#update all the 92's just to avoid litagation?
#


I am considering buying a Beretta 92.  Is there a way for me to
distinguish between the guns with the fix and the guns without the
fix?  Can I assume that all of the new guns for sale have the fix?
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Target materials for armor piercing ammunition?
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:04:58 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <9209101738.AA28541@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com> davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
#The gong at our range has been taking a beating lately with armor piercing
#and/or steel cored ammunition.
#
#Rather than prohibiting this type of ammo, which would be difficult to
#enforce, I would like to recommend alternate target materials that would be
#more fun to shoot and which would show off the capabilities of this type of
#ammo.
#
#Perhaps someone could post how this problem has been solved before?

One of our guys rummaged up an 18" by 24" piece of armor steel for our
gong.  It's been out at 300 yards for some time now (4 years?) and has
only had a couple of the corners chipped off.  This stuff is amazing - 
about 3/8" thick and really takes a beating.

The big problem here has been keeping the stand holding it up alive -
it take a real beating.  The best solution wa to run most of the stand
behind the plate and to mount the plate using an 18" wide chunk of
tire - the bullets just puncture the tire without breaking much. 
Better than the chain that was breaking every few weeks.

I can't think of a source of armor plate - perhaps someone else will
have a solution?  I'd like some smaller gongs...

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home
Will hack unix for food 		(.sig stolen from dt - sorry, dt)
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: A safety tip, plus request for parts
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:15:34 GMT


Since we see other recent notes concerning the value of double-checking
on loadings, here's an extra caution, underscoring what you have already
been told in manuals about "check that a powder bushing throws what you
think it does".

I recently purchased a Hornady 366 shotshell loading, and the standard
bushing coming with it (which I carefully double checked has a part number
it was supposed to have) is supposed to be for throwing 18.0gr of red dot.
Guess what, it throws 19.6gr of red dot.  Now, I haven't called them on 
that since this gets me closer to the velocity I figured I wanted down
the line in my AA hulls, win wads, and 1 1/8 oz of #7.5 chilled shot.

Now on to my question.... can someone supply me with a number for Browning,
assuming they sell parts?   I recently came into the need for a replacement
lower shell extractor on my 12ga Belgian Browning Invector.....  Alternately
I will love to have suggestions for other sources of parts.

Thanks for any help you can lend....

Jim