HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: subodh@informix.com (Subodh Nijsure)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Salary survey data, where do I find it?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:02:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: subodh@godzilla

Hi,
	Where can I find salary survey data for perm. SW Engg. in US? 

If you can provide pointers to recent journals,magzines, newspaper articles 
that would be nice.

Do any credit unions provide this data? I called AEA, they charge $600 for it!
Unless 600 of us want to put $1 each, thats out of question !!

I will summarize the response.

Please e-mail me at smn@netcom.com.

-Subodh 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opnions expressed are mine.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: boyap@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Venkata Boyapalli)
Subject: Headhunters for Bio Tech. in Calfornia region 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:49:10 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

  hi,
  
  Can someone post or mail me the list of Headhunters
  for Bio Tech. jobs  in California region?

  Thanks in advance,

  -Venkat
From: ted@sage1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Employment training liability agreement
Date: 24 Sep 92 22:11:44 GMT
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center

paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis) writes:

>>Yes, this type of agreement is legal.  It's also pretty much in the best 
>>interests of both the company and the employee.  

>Company, yes... I'm not so sure about the employee.  The trouble with
>this kind of setup is that the employer has less incentive to improve
>working conditions and respond to employee issues because they are
>now "indentured wage slaves".

>Back in the old rober baron days, this was known as "owing one's soul
>to the company store...".  Sure, you can quit your job if you really
>don't like it... just settle your "debt" to the company first...

	This is regarding the employer/employee agreement that if an
	employee voluntarily leaves a company within one year of
	receiving company-paid training that they would be responsible
	for reimbursing the company the tuition costs of the training.

	I'm not so sure this is unfair to the employee.  The company is
	trying to provide benefits to employees without getting taken for
	a ride.  If you accept company training, then you should be
	prepared to use that training in your work for the company.  If
	you voluntarily leave within the next year, then your training is
	not for the benefit of the company, but for the benefit of the
	individual employee.  If this happens, then there is less money
	and ultimately less incentive for companies to offer company-paid
	training for employees.  I think in terms of long-term benefits,
	it does aid the employees.

	If you voluntarily leave a company (remember, this agreement as
	mentioned, specifically mentioned voluntarily leave), then you
	should be willing to pay for any training that you received during
	the last year.  This training was paid for on the good faith that
	you would use the skills learned for the benefit of the company.
	If you expect to leave within the year, don't accept the training.

	This sounds like a reasonable "good faith" deal.  Also, imagine
	how you would feel if there was only enough in the department
	budget for you or your neighbor to go to a class for something
	really needed by your department.  Your neighbor gets approved to
	go and you don't.  Then three months later, you neighbor gives
	notice and leaves for another job and there is no money to train
	you for those skills and your department still needs those skills...
	how would you feel?  Or how would you feel as the manager of this
	department?  Now, is this really fair to the other employees?

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
From: markts@mcl.ucsb.edu (mark t schmidt)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: salary for new graduates
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:10:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcl.markts.718305058

In <teague.718238496@weber> teague@ece.scarolina.edu (Charles F. Teague) writes:

>gregory j farrar <gfarrar@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

>>What range of salary could a person who has just graduated with a 4 year 
>>computer science degree expect to be offered ??

>	as far as the Southeast is concerned, I've seen a range
>between $18K and $28K (with experience).

Here in California:
	32K (with Andersen Consulting)
	40K (with Apple - applicant was a teaching assistant for 
	     lower division CS classes for 2 years - *really* bright guy.)
	30K (with Xerox as entry level assistant sys. admin.)

All were graduates from UCSB.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: Cash Prizes for Ideas on Saving U.S. Jobs
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:11:34 GMT


Having thought about this one for a while, I have come up with the following
solution:

   Give companies the ability to stop unfair trading, i.e. American companies
   have to work within regulations for the welfare of their employees,
   pollution control etc.. If a foreign company is not operating under the same
   or equivalent regulations then it has an "unfair" advantage, an American
   company (or individuals) should be able to ban or restrict their imports to
   the U.S. on these grounds.

   - this might get rid of some of those dirty chemical plants just over the
   Mexican border (and elsewhere).
   

Kev.
-- 
Kevin Cameron          CLSI, Suite 100, 5457 Twin Knolls Rd., MD 21045, USA
kevin@clsi.com         Tel: (USA) (410) 992 5700 (- 5709) X229
uunet!clsi.com!kevin   Fax:       (410) 992 3536
----------------------------------------------------------- Reality Is virtual
From: mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Cash Prizes for Ideas on Saving U.S. Jobs
Date: 27 Sep 92 07:32:26 GMT
Organization: Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA

In an article, paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis) writes:
>>(3) require the public schools to teach enough useful skills so-as
>>to make their graduates employable.
>>
>True enough, but define "useful skills"?  A skill that may have been
>highly in demand when a student is in high school may end up being
>much less in demand when the student finally enters the working world. [...]

I used to think that this was the way to go, but have since changed my
opinion.  It seems to me that there is *already too much specialization*
in the public school system.
-- 
Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (714) 681-2623
Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6859 misc.jobs.offered:11837
From: dlhpfm.uucp!tes!sam@abvax.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: Design Engineer Gas Compression (Agent)
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:46:30 GMT
Organization: Technical Employment Services, Inc.

WPCD

h
-P1624

x
#1 Gas Compressor Manufacturer seeks qualified Design Engineer for
gas compressors and packages.

REQUIREMENTS

BS  in Engineering
3 - 5 years experience
willing to relocate

Excellent relocation package and benefit package.  Non union shop. 
This company takes excellent care of all of their employees. 
Salaries are competitive, quarterly bonus based on earnings has
averaged 5.5% of base quarterly earnings.

Respond by letter or FAX to: Sam Sheterom
                             TES, Inc.
                             31601 Vine Street
                             Willowick, Ohio  44095
                             (216) 585-0200
                             FAX (216) 585-7327
From: ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:10:20 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <greg.718041562@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
>In <BvH810.17B@world.std.com> ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:
>
>>I'm not all that patient, but I do read history.  Why don't you read
>>something more substantial than the Atlantic, or ask your parents what
>>kind of hours their parents and grandparents used to work?  People
>>used to work seven days a week!  Decrease in leisure time--you've
>>gotta be kidding!
>
>Neither my mother nor grandmothers needed to work as their husband's
>salary was sufficient to support the entire family.  My paternal grandfather
>was an artist and art teacher, so he wasn't exactly raking in the bucks but
>he managed to support a family of five and own a house.
>
>My father was an economics professor and quite used to three month vacations.
>My maternal grandfather was a banker and kept hours typical for a banker
>in the northeast in the 1950s and 1960s.
>
>I doubt very much that their lifestyle would be economically feasible in
>today's USA.  I know of very few single-income families, including my own.
>
>Could you provide a refutation of my assertion?  Today, in the
>computer industry (for example), 50-80 hour work weeks are de-facto
>standards with two week's vacation if you're lucky.  Can you name a profession,
>including farming, in the United States during the 1700-1850 period which
>was routinely subject to so much regimentation and inevitability?
>
>greg
>
>--
>Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
>Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
>Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)


Your mother and grandmother didn't need to work, eh?  I suppose they
had servants who cleaned the house (no vacuum cleaner, of course),
washed the clothes by hand, baked the bread and cooked the food,
looked after the kids, and so forth?  Common misconception:  women
didn't have to "work" in the old days.  On the contrary; they had to
work just as hard or harder than the men.  I will concede that women
today have double jobs, between career and child-rearing.

Only the lucky people have two week vacations in the computer
industry?  Maybe just in Indiana; most companies I've heard of offer
at least two weeks paid vacation, often more.  Not everyone requires
>40 hours either.  Maybe some.

As for regimentation, try picking cotton in a field all day (hundreds
of thousands of rural workers in the South), plucking apples or
oranges from trees (migrant workers), mill workers being used
essentially as cogs in very dangerous machines.  Nope, I think overall
things have improved a bit.

It would be nice if the average family could exist on one person's
income; what's your solution?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  2 Oct 92 20:22:28 GMT

greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes: 

>Could you provide a refutation of my assertion?  Today, in the
>computer industry (for example), 50-80 hour work weeks are de-facto
>standards with two week's vacation if you're lucky. 
   
    And don't forget that it is becoming increasingly common today in
many areas of the country for people to spend at least two hours a day
commuting.  I'm sure many readers of this newsgroup could tell us they
spend twice that much.  This too is a recent phenomenon, and unless you
want to argue that sitting in freeway traffic is a life-enhancing
experience, you should consider this as work time, since it's time you
spend only in order to keep your job.   
 
   (People lucky enough to live in areas of the country where it's still
possible to buy a house near your job without being a millionaire may be
sceptical of the above claims, but I can assure you that in the San
Francisco area such commutes are not at all unusual.)  
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: romingk@pell3l0.alleg.edu (Karl Rominger)
Subject: Man Power Needed
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:47:24 GMT

Anyone interested in earning a healthy extra income?

Please email me at romingk@alleg.edu for more details.

Karl Rominger
romingk@alleg.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pstephan@mcs.kent.edu (Paul H. Stephan)
Subject: Bargaining for vacation time?
Originator: pstephan@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu
Organization: Kent State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:38:21 GMT

Does anyone have any experience on whether or not it is possible to
bargain for how long until additional vacation time is earned.  Most
company's that I'm familiar with start with 2 weeks then add 1 week
after 5 years.  When changing jobs this can be rather discouraging
if you are close to or beyond the 5 years.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Paul H. Stephan (pstephan@mcs.kent.edu)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper)
Subject: Re: The current economic situation -- what to call it?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:38:01 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Sep25.050510.11450@musclefish.com> czei@musclefish.com (Michael Czeiszperger) writes:
>In article <1992Sep22.200352.27270@microsoft.com> philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper) writes:
>>
>>As I understand it, a recession is defined as two or more consecutive
>>quarters of negative economic growth.  Our economy has been growing
>>at 1-2% for the last year.  Not much, but certainly not negative.
>>
>
>I've been following the announced economic indicators,

	So have I.

> and GNP has definately not been in the 1-2% range.

	Yes it has.  In fact, it was over 2% in one quarter.  Remember,
I'm talking about annualized growth rates, not the growth for just one
quarter.

>  For the past couple of quarters
>it has been as close to zero as is possible, in the range of
>0.01-0.95.

	Assuming you are right (and you're not), that still doesn't
disprove what I am saying.  In fact, it confirms it.

>  Keep in mind that the first published GNP figures are only
>estimates, and the government issues revised figures up to three years
>after the original figures are released.

	That is true, however we can only discuss information as it is
currently available.  The figures might be revised upward or downward.

<text deleted>

Phil Cooper
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6941 misc.jobs.offered:11965
From: sgupta@informix.com (Shailesh Gupta)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: Multiple Full time positions in Bay Area. [ Unix/C/C++ ]
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:16:39 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: InfoSoft Inc.
Originator: sgupta@gomer


	    ********************************************************

	    InfoSoft has opportunities available for software engineers
	    with minimum three years of Unix - C/C++ programmimg.

	    Strong knowledge of Unix Internals desired. Kernel Experience
	    will be a plus.

	    Fax or mail your resume at the following address.

	    Mr. Anil Kumar
	    InfoSoft Inc.
	    20573 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite #200
	    Cupertino, CA 95014

	    FAX: (408) 255-4078
	    Tel: (408) 255-4077

			!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

			PLS. DO NOT RESPOND BY E-MAIL 
			PLS. DO NOT RESPOND BY E-MAIL 

			!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


	    ********************************************************
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:59:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: saltydog.greg.718041562
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc

In <BvH810.17B@world.std.com> ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:

>I'm not all that patient, but I do read history.  Why don't you read
>something more substantial than the Atlantic, or ask your parents what
>kind of hours their parents and grandparents used to work?  People
>used to work seven days a week!  Decrease in leisure time--you've
>gotta be kidding!

Neither my mother nor grandmothers needed to work as their husband's
salary was sufficient to support the entire family.  My paternal grandfather
was an artist and art teacher, so he wasn't exactly raking in the bucks but
he managed to support a family of five and own a house.

My father was an economics professor and quite used to three month vacations.
My maternal grandfather was a banker and kept hours typical for a banker
in the northeast in the 1950s and 1960s.

I doubt very much that their lifestyle would be economically feasible in
today's USA.  I know of very few single-income families, including my own.

Could you provide a refutation of my assertion?  Today, in the
computer industry (for example), 50-80 hour work weeks are de-facto
standards with two week's vacation if you're lucky.  Can you name a profession,
including farming, in the United States during the 1700-1850 period which
was routinely subject to so much regimentation and inevitability?

greg

--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:11:26 GMT

[I predicted that if family leave were instituted by force, young
married women would find it harder to get jobs.  I was called a sexist
and described as having attitude problems....]

I was trying to point out that some discrimination would follow a
federally enforced family leave policy.  Perhaps I was misunderstood,
especially by the person who thought I was "sexist".  If men and women
were eligible for pregnancy leave, then I think it follows that both
men and women might face job discrimination if a company could find
out their plans vis-a-vis children.  There--clear enough?  I think
Discrimination Is Bad.

It's just like the idiotic immigration reform of 1986(?) that requires
employers to "prove" that their employees are legal residents.  Aside
from Yet Another Federal Form for overtaxed employers to fill out, it
led to a perceptible increase in discrimination against people with
foreign-sounding (especially Hispanic) names and foreign accents.  I
read this somewhere but cannot remember exactly the source.  Besides
which it went after the wrong people--we in the US have a shortage of
people willing to work very hard at menial jobs, and yet we punish
others who are willing to do it.
From: loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Geographic split: proto-formation of RFD
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:47:26 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep30.153935.1701@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>
>	It looks like we're a go for an RFD on geographic based split of
>misc.jobs.offered.
>
>	The next step is to decide *what* the geographic splits should be.
>
>	I would suggest keeping it as general as possible for now.  Further
>splits can be done later, if necessary.

	I suggest

		USA
		EEC
		Europe (Non EC)
		Middle East
		British Commonwealth
		Former Soviet Union
		Japan
		Far East and SE Asia
		Other (e.g South America, Africa, etc)

	We now need a good group naming scheme. I think I covered everything.
Now according to the newsgroups line this should get to the right place.


	On a different topic, do any potential employers READ misc.jobs.resume,
or more precisely, has anyone ever found a job posting their resume/cv there?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: popelka@odysseus.uchicago.edu (Glenn Popelka)
Subject: insurance problems ?
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:32:53 GMT


 In a few years I might like to change jobs and locate to a smaller
community, and work for a small to medium sized company.

 Unfortunately, my wife has several chronic medical conditions that
tend to be moderately expensive to treat.

 My question is, what happens in a smaller company when one makes
extensive use of the medical coverage? Is this anything to worry
about?

glenn
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ghost@openage.openage.com (Glenn Host)
Subject: Re: Geographic split: proto-formation of RFD
Organization: Open Age, Inc.
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 11:28:03 GMT

bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:

>	The vote (if/when it comes) will be a multiple, parallel vote with
>*each* subgroup requiring a vote.  If we want this to pass, that's the way it
>has to be.  Otherwise the vote is likely to be rejected for violating the
>guidelines.  Because of this, let's keep the total number of groups to a small
>number (<15-20).

This is a problem because if one or two pass and the rest don't
it doesn't work well.  You could end up with:
mjo.usa.east, mjo.canada.west, mjo.europe.misc etc which tends
to break the idea of mjo by area up.

But if you are going that route you may want to try
mjo.usa.eastern  \
mjo.usa.central   \ According to phone areas
mjo.usa.mountain  / which almost everybody knows
mjo.usa.pacific  /

Otherwise you will people asking 'is a in x or y area'.

Start small and split subgroups later if traffic warrents later
-- 

Very grateful guest of Openage - the best SCO service shop in the area
************* my views represent no one - not even myself. ****************
From: krassin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Keith E. Krassin)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: headhunters who specialize in European technical positions
Summary: Past Experiences Needed
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:33:57 GMT
Organization: Boeing


    I need some input about headhunters and their value when 
searching for a job.  

1.  I have heard that their fees (whatever %) can and have, 
    alot of times, driven down or taken a cut out of the first 
    year salary a company might offer you.  
2.  I also know sending out resumes personally to companies, 
    stops the headhunter from contacting  those companies.  

I need some advise on the best approach to take when trying to 
locate employment.  My first thoughts are to take advantage of 
any personal contacts I have in the area and then let a headhunter 
take over from there.  Any pros and cons about headhunters or past 
experiences will be beneficial!  Thanks!


Keith E Krassin
krassin@dsp35001.boeing.com
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Fmaily leave (was: ...so little vacation time?)
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:11:22 GMT
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center

plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak) writes:

>In article <BvFBAK.FB1@world.std.com> ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:
>>And, young married women might find it a bit harder to find a job.

>   Spoken like a true sexist.  As a young married male who has a job
>which provides for family leave, I intend to take full advantage of
>it when the time comes.  Why would being female make a difference?
>
	Not really.  Spoken like a true pragmatist.  Terry was trying to
	point out the reality of what would happen.  Currently, in the
	US, a government mandated family leave policy would end up with
	companies offering family leave to women, but not to men (I
	believe that the family leave package proposed only mandates that
	women be granted paid leave for pregnancy and recovery periods).
	In such a case, companies would be more hesitant to hire young
	women (mostly married, but perhaps also single) since they might
	be more "expensive".  The logic is that if you hire a young woman
	then she might get pregnant and take the family leave and then
	the company would be short one more FTE for the duration.  If you
	hire a young man, you won't have to worry about offering him the
	leave if his wife/girlfriend gets pregnant.

	The industry and companies are the ones who would ultimately
	practice the sexism, not the people pointing out the reality.  If
	the family leave bill were to guarantee family leave for both male
	and female parents and mandate it, then the sexist practices could
	be diminished (in respect to this issue).  It is a long hard way
	to go to achieve true relief from sexism.

	Recognizing the obstacles that we have to overcome is an important
	step in achieving the goal.


	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center