HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Isreal Guns Laws
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:44 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec16.204852.13914@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#In article <1992Dec14.003619.27017@btree.uucp> btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik) writes:
#}Back in may I visited Israel and I really enjoyed it!
#}I noticed that many of the non-military citizens
#}regularly carry firearms for self-protection.
#}I'm curious as to what the concealed carry laws are,
#}also are non-citizens who are residents alowed to own
#}firearms,and are civilians allowed to own automatic
#}weapons?
#
#As I understand the situation, there are no adult Israeli civilians, for
#practical purposes.  They're all considered to be members of some form of
#military, reserve or militia.  This accounts for Israel's attitude towards
#terrorist kidnappers ("We don't ransom soldiers.  We rescue them or avenge
#them. _All_ our citizens are soldiers").

As I recall from the info I've read (and some info from the Israeli
Embassy), all Jewish and Druse Israelis are conscripted into two years
of full-time military srevice at age 18, and are considered to be part
of the militia until some age in their thirties or fifties (I don't
remember for certain; I got the info back in '85, when I was part of
the "Israeli" delegation to the Model United Nations in high school.
That was fun; Israel's a great country to be--only slightly behind the
US, (then) USSR, and South Africa; talk about a challenge ;-)

If you're looking for an interesting book about the birth of Israel,
try _Exodus_ by Leon Uris. It's historical fiction, but a lot of the
stories in it are true (such as the bombing of the British military
headquarters). It also discusses a little bit of the history of Israeli
weapons, like why the Uzi is like it is (it's cheap, easy to make, and
reliable), and so forth...besides, I happen to like Leon Uris. ;-)
Any guy who fictionalize the account of a libel case to pay off the 
settlement is OK in my book. ;-)

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Steyer SPP
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:11 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

Season's Greetings etc...
Has anyone checked-out one of those new(?)
Steyr SPP's yet? How does it compare to
an HKSP89? Is it lighter? How's the trigger Pull?
Is it legal for a civilian in The People's 
Rep.of Calif. to own? Thanks!
From: IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Nicholas C. Hester)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:51 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

In article <1992Dec11.015633.9398@ncsu.edu>, hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E.
Schaffer) says:
#
#  An NC Ass't Atty General (and ex-police officer) told me that when
#talking through the drivers window that having both hands grasping
#the steering wheel at 12 o'clock was a good non-threatening posture.

At night it might also be a good idea to turn the dome light on to
illuminate the interior of the vehicle.  This would allow the officer
to see everything you are doing.  I've never done this in practice,
what does everyone else think?
___

  Nicholas  Hester
ia80024@Maine.bitnet
ia80024@Maine.maine.edu
From: dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: A gun in the car
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:34:17 GMT


Kevin Whyte writes:

		[ stuff about shooting from inside a car ]

#I've thought about this a lot recently especially with the upswing in car-
#jackings.  I don't know that having a firearm in the car is going to do you
#a damn bit of good anyway.  Where would you keep it?  How could you get to it
#before the perp shoots?

I agree that prevention is the best course.  Still, for those that do carry
a gun in their car, with the feeling that they might really need it, would
you have it:

	- out in the open on the passenger seat?

	- on the passenger seat, under a coat?

	- under the drivers seat?

	- in the glovebox?

	- other?

-Dave
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad things to do to semiauto pistols
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:31 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <Yf_A_ki00iV002K2hh@andrew.cmu.edu> se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:
#Although dry firing for practice is a good thing to do, it intuitively
#seems that dry firing on an empty chambre CAN'T be good for the gun (and
#may even be bad for it).  So the obvious solution seems to be to invest
#in some spring loaded plastic dummies also known as snap-caps) and load
#these when you dry-fire.  (empty brass will work too, but only for 4 or
#5 shots until the primer pocket is bashed to hell)

A cheap way to make your own snap caps is to simply fill the case with
RTV Blue gasket compound (or a silicone sealant--same difference). The
compund will fill the primer pocket nicely if you do it right, and will
adequately, IMHO, protect your firing pin. You can also put a shot
bullet in the case, and the compound will hold it in (if you want to
practice chambering a round first in a non-SIG).
I've been using an RTV Blue dummy round for quite awhile now with
no ill effects...

					James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:35:06 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Nicholas C. Hester) writes:

#At night it might also be a good idea to turn the dome light on to
#illuminate the interior of the vehicle.  This would allow the officer
#to see everything you are doing.  I've never done this in practice,
#what does everyone else think?

No, I would not.  The cop is the agressor.  Become non-threatening but
don't make his job of stealing money from you any easier.

RE: CCW.  I would not advise telling the cop about a CCW/Gun unless
the gun is in view and/or the cop is going to search you.  There are
plenty of cops out there who will harrass you and even take your gun,
CCW or not.  For example, here in Cobb County, GA, it is the official
policy of the Cobb county pigs, er, cops, to take all concealed firearms,
regardless of a CCW.  Illegal?  Sure but some citizen is going to have
to file suit to stop it.  Cops don't have to obey the law unless 
forced.  If your gun is an especially nice one, it might just disappear
off into the void.

During my only stop since getting a CCW, before I came to a halt,
I simply put my pistol in a secret compartment behind the seat.
Assuming you're not stupid enough to allow a cop to search your car
without a warrant, the cop would have no legal way of finding the gun.

If you ever have a gun taken as part of a traffic stop, I suggest
writing at least the model and brand on the traffic ticket while you're
signing it.  Serial number too, if you know it.  this is in addition to any
property receipt you might get.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: brett@sr.hp.com (Brett K. Carver)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home (UPDATE!)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:04 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)

Rob (C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu) wrote:
: What she wants me to get is a Bio-Scan safe - the kind that
: scans your fingerprints.  I found their ad, which states that they
: start at $157.95.  The maker is Bedford Technologies.
: 
: Does anyone have more info on these safes?

A little.  I thought they looked like a neat idea so I sent away for their
information.  It's not at high-tech as it sounds.  It's basically just a
very fancy simplex-style lock.

You stick your hands in.  Under each finger are two buttons.  For each finger
you have the choice of pressing no/one/two of the buttons.  You enter your
'code' (which buttons/fingers you press) and you're set.

I decided that it wasn't 'simple' enough for me.  You had to use both hands,
and you had to make sure all fingers were hitting just the right buttons.
This may not be as natural and easy as the literature implies as 3 AM with
the sound of someone coming down the hallway...

I decided on one of the basic metal boxes with a simplex lock.

							Brett Carver
							(707) 577-4344
							brett@sr.hp.com
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Enfield Questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:20 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <01GSD26HAHK2924M37@CC.USU.EDU> slv4b@cc.usu.edu writes:
#     I'm thinking of buying an Enfield .303 and would like any opinion
#concerning this rifle.  Is ammo for it fairly assessible and reasonably
#priced?        

I'd say so.  A belt that contained 50 rounds in 10 stripper clips goes
for, I think, about $15.  pretty easy to find, in my experience; check
your area, if it's rare there you may want to reconsider.

#What are the strengths and drawbacks from any of you who have owned or fired
#this gun?  Any help would be appreciated.

One drawback is that, aside from one company (Hornady, I believe), you
absolutely MUST use surplus ammo because new .303 British works at higher
pressures that the Enfield can take safely.  Also, that surplus ammo will
be corrosively primed, so you have to clean the gun the very day that you
shoot or you may trash the barrel.

I like mine.  It's accurate and dependable.  To me, the main drawbacks
are that it takes corrosive-primer ammo and that it can be a pain to
load, even from stripper clips.  Forget about slapping in a new magazine.

   don
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:28 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Dec13.234101.25158@netcom.com>, tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith)
writes, in part:

#In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent
Irvine) writes:
##Does anyone know what the difference between these
##types of actions?

[much good stuff deleted...]

#I've never heard of a matchlock pistol, or rifled weapon.

	Wheel lock pistols are not uncommon, tho more common, as noted in
	Europe, than in Great Britain.  Wheel locks were, originally, the
	"delux" weapon, more costly to make, more sure of fire.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rossi .357
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:21 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

hruo@ncrclm.clemsonsc.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo) writes:

[Rossi jams and breaks first trip to range.
Replacement is starting to break.?]

#The moral of the story?  if you just want any old gun, the Rossi is adequate. 
#But if you want a GOOD gun, get a SMITH.  there's nothing like a good
#stainless L-Frame .357 by S&W.

I think I would prefer a Ruger GP100 over any medium frame S&W .357.
How would most of you rate the snub S&W 19 vs the SP101?  I liked the
SP, but there seems little point to giving up a round and not much
size or weight.  Never shot the 19, but it looks neat, and feels
about the same with Pach compact grips.
I've heard people say that 19s wear out after a while.

What I _really_ like, above and beyond any other S&W revolver, is the
625 3" or 4".  The best caliber in the world, seemingly well made,
comes with good grips (many revolvers seem not to), shoots good per 
owners, and looks nice.   Only thing it needs is a tapered barrel like 
some of the .44 specials used to have.  I shot one before I was interested 
in guns, so I didn't fully appreciate it or take note of how good it
was.


Jim D
#Hiro.Ruo@ClemsonSC.NCR.COM
From: young@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (STEPHEN YOUNG)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: French Foreign Legion
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:01 GMT
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI

again. Can anyone tell me what type of guns(and something about them) the 
French Foreign Legion carry. I keep seeing pictures of them from Somalia 
and don't know what it is.
                                      Thanks
From: joec@hadar.fai.com (Joseph Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9x18 Makarov
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:15:27 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu NTS


Help!! Netters,

Could someone kindly show me 
Where to get cheap non-corrosive 9x18 Makarov ammo ?
If there's no commercial non-corrosive 9x18 Makarov available,
How about corrosive ones ?

Couple monthes ago someone posted "Try Hanson", 
Anybody know "Hanson"'s Addr. and Phone# ?

Thanks,
From: ryanm@stein.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:19 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <RTARAZ.92Dec13145923@realsoon.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@realsoon.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
##>>>> On 12 Dec 92 00:19:21 GMT, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) said:
#
#It ain't right but dead cops ain't right either.
#
#But most of time it is the cops that will be put on the stand.
#I have respect for cops and what they do (although my car got towed
#last night!!) I think they should be train more. 
#
#If a cop is in a safe postions (behind a car or something, somewhere
#that at leasts protects him a little) he could give the suspect a
#little time to get his act together and then shoot.
#
#dnewcomb> When the judge questioned the officer why he thought it was
#dnewcomb> necessary to put 30 rounds into his assailant, the officer
#dnewcomb> is said to have replied, "Well your honor, he already shot
#dnewcomb> me once, and it hurt. I didn't want him to shoot me again."
#
#I am not a great shot but I think I will be able to hit a person from
#20 feet at least 5 out of 30!  (I dont know how many I could hit with
#a couple of lead shots in my chest though!)
#
#
#dnewcomb> BTW, the assailant's attack was effectively brought to an
#dnewcomb> end and he was taken into custody and delivered to the city
#dnewcomb> morgue. So, I don't think we need to hear any more about 9
#dnewcomb> mm not being good enough for police work.  -
#             
#	good point!


If I were shot with a shot gun at point blank I would be tempted to unload
2 magazines into the perp too.  I would continue shooting the perp until
the gun is out of his/her (we don't want to be sexist) hand or he/she is
on the ground no longer posing a threat.  --Ryan

PS: Any flames on diction or spelling will not be tolerated, let my
english teacher do that!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  Ryan McNeilly                    Internet: ryanm@u.washington.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"You can't deal from a position of weakness"  --Alfred Thayer Mahan
Moral:  Protect the 2nd Amendment!

My comments and opinions are my own and nobody elses!!!!!
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: case specifications
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:23:44 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <9212140615.AA04194@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com> davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
# ...
#Aren't there any specs on case dimensions from SAAMI or somewhere else?
# 
#Not one of these sources give a tolerance on case dimensions.  Only _Pet
#Loads_ even suggests that there is both a minimum and a maximum OAL or 
#variations on other dimensions.  
#
#Elsewhere, other dimensions simply have no tolerance at all.  For example, a
#drawing on the 9mm parabellum case will show the mouth at nominal 0.380, no
#tolerance.  From this, you cannot even tell whether 0.380 is before or after
#a taper crimp.

  Some time ago I saw an ad for a book of the SAAMI specs.  My foggy
memory is that it came from one of the major reloading supplies
manufacturers (such as RCBS or Lyman or ...???) and was a large
notebook.  Also that it was expensive enough that I lost all
interest in buying a copy (which, as my long suffering wife will
attest does indicate something.)

--henry schaffer
From: brad%slammer.UUCP@mathcs.emory.edu (Brad Isley)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt or Springfield 1911 A1
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:50:54 GMT
Organization: Just me & my computers

In article <34547@adm.brl.mil> sporay@adm.brl.mil (Ralph Sporay) writes:
#
#In article <1g6oe3INN764@male.EBay.Sun.COM> 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM 
#(Renie Maycon) writes:
##Which is a better gun for the money springfield or colt?
#
##Is it really worth spending more money for a colt?
#
#I was also curious, until I talked to a few gunsmiths whom are members
#of the American Pistolsmiths Guild. They prefered to or would not work 
#on any thing but a Colt or Caspian (1911A1). Used Colts also seem to

This seems like a severe case of anal-retentiveness to me.

"What?  You refuse to work on my Springfield?  Fine.  I'll spend my
money somewhere else."

I personally would not want such a gunsmith to work on my guns.
I demand an objective attitude from a smith.  I can see it now:
"If this were a Colt, I'd spend more time on it.  Heck, it's a
<brand-x>, so let's just get it over with and get is out of the shop."

#hold their value very well. I now own two Colts.

That's precisely why I bought a used Springfield.
Just as good as a Colt (or better) for less money.
Plus, it has such a BEAUTIFUL deep deep blue finish.

To each his own.
-- 
emory!slammer!brad   (Brad Isley)
+1 404 841-5018 Work			 Nopottopeein: "Howzit Goink?"
+1 404 925-9663 Home			  The gang: "Fine, just fine."
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:49 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
#Does anyone know what the difference between these
#types of actions?

Well, very roughly:

 Matchlock: External "hammer" has length of slow-burning fuse attached, which is
	pivoted down, either by hand or by spring after pulling a trigger, to
	touch some powder near a flash hole at the gun's breech.  You can still
	get a matchlock, such as the copy of a Japanese type from Navy Arms.

	The Japanese apparently use them for some shooting competitions.

 Flintlock: External hammer carries a small piece of flint down to scrape against
	a curved steel plate to produce a shower of spark intended to touch off
	a small amount of powder (in the flash pan) near a flash hole at the gun's
	breech.  (If the flash hole is blocked, you get a "flash in the pan", but
	the main charge doesn't get ignited.)

 Wheelock: Rube Goldberg's answer to the flintlock.  Does the same job as the flintlock,
	but used a coiled spring mechanism to spin a wheel that produces a *really*
	spectacular shower of sparks to touch off...

	Wheelock's were replaced eventually by flintlocks, mainly because the latter
	had many fewer parts, were less liable to break, and were a *lot* cheaper to
	make.  The wheelock apparently was a bit less likely to misfire, though.  I
	don't know if you can find wheelocks these days outside of museums.

Check your local public libarary for pictures and more complete descriptions, etc.
	

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .50BMG Bullpup?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:43 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group Marketing


In article <921212063827_76334.1331_EHJ22-1@CompuServe.COM>, 76334.1331@CompuServe.COM (Brian Millin) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|> a tank gun or that .50BMG bullpup monster somebody just came out with.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What have you heard about this?  I try to follow Barrett, but I'm not aware of
anyone else making .50BMG weapons for the civilian market.

Glen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call                          Technical Marketing Systems Engineer
Motorola Computer Systems, Inc.    gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com or mcdapps!gcall
DISCLAIMER: The above is strictly my opinion.  I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MOTOROLA!
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm shootings (2)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:19 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <RTARAZ.92Dec10140734@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
->the gases comming out of a blank probably have the same speed and
->pressure as a regular bullet shooting out a bullet, the only
->difference is that they dont shoot anything. 
->
->now, stand a few feet (maybe a few yards) away from the barrel and you
->wont feel a thing,  other that the sound and maybe a shockwave!
->       
->please correct me if I am wrong.

One thing you overlook is that they usually have to put something in
the front end of the cartridge to keep the powder in, even if they
crimp it.  This is usually clay or wood, as far as I know.  I have
been shot at about 10-15 feet with a .223 blank fired out of an M16
without a blank adapter.  I felt a pattern of fragments hit my fore-
head, similar to ratshot.  No harm was done, no blood drawn, and it
did not even really hurt.  Never-the-less, I made it quite clear that
if the act was repeated, the shooter would be the proud owner of a
plastic .22 anal suppository.  :)

John Cronin
-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again