HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Lost Keys of Fremasonry
From: john@actrix.gen.nz (John Vorstermans)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:54:44 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <la5ehcINNmv9@west.west.sun.com> markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe) writes:
> I recently picked up and read this work by Manly Hall.  I very much enjoyed
> it, but I saw little relationship between that book and the Shriners I 
> have known.  I was simultaneously impressed and depressed - impressed by the
> significant structure dedicated to completing an important work - depressed
> by the fear that these keys are indeed lost (or at best little-used).

Manly P Hall was indeed a personality who managed to capture some of the
true essence which underlies the masonic rituals (IMHO).  As regards to the
lost keys..... these keys are not of a mortal nature but rather something more
akin to such mystical stories as the search for the "Hol Grail".  Once these
keys are found the mason (or anyone for that matter) is able to enter into
such realms of consciousness unimaginable to our mortal brain.  Saddly the 
experience of it all is such that it is impossible to comunicate it in words 
or writing which even conveys a glimpse of what has been perceived.  Thus each
mason must find the lost keys for themselves.

> Are there lodges that are more dedicated to the spiritual growth elements 
> of masonry? 

Yes there most definitly are but they are often not so easy to find as the
"common" mason tend to redicule them, often claiming they are not true mason.
Rather sad to see the often closed minded view of the "comman" mason these
days.  The masonic movement has some very good rituals meant for everyone.
It is really just a slow and cautious way of teaching individuals about 
themselves, there place in the scheme of things and an introductions into
ritual magic. It is pleasent to be able to work with some of the unseen 
forces that surround us.

> Is everyone over twelfth degree actually dedicated to building
> the temple and I just never noticed it?  Is the spiritual path actually 
> tended by a few 38+ degree wierdos who have long since learned that talking
> about it is alot like teaching a pig to sing?

Often those that no most say the least.

Happy hunting.
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: questions
Date: 15 Sep 92 02:58:54 GMT
Distribution: alt.magick
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Sep14.211856.100@kenyon.edu> pickett@vax001.kenyon.edu writes:
>I have some questions which I would like to see answered.  I know nothing about
>magik so I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that I should or if I'm going about

I refer you to your local large collegiate library. ..bookstores. ...

Do a lot of reading.  I specifically recommend you to the Key of Solomon, 
the Secrets of Albertus Magnus, and the The Book of The Sacred Magic of 
Abramelin the Mage.  I refer you to your bible to read about Solomon and his
temple, the sacred and magical works of Jesus when he healed and cured. He
specifically told his disciples in John 14:12, 
 	verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works
	that I do he shall do also; and greater works than these shall he do;
Go back and read all the magical things Jesus did. the loaves and the fishes, 
his control over demons. ..all things that he says that he who believes in 
him shall be able to do. Ephesians 4:11-13 says that we will all be raised
to Perfection. ..this is the goal of the prophets and the teachers. .

Am I a christian.  Not by most people's definition of the word.  I believe 
that the bible is as holy as any other sacred book. .that Jesus was surely 
one of the enlightened ones, like Buddha, for example, and that it is a 
sacred and holy path which can work.  I heed the words of enlightenment 
wherever I find them. Can you be a christian and practice magick?  Sure.
But it has to be a personal decision between you and god.  There are lots
of people named christians who will profess to not understand you, or to 
think that you are wrong.  But they are human. .are mortal. .and are just
as subject to error as anyone else.  If in your heart you and your god 
are satisfied, then no one else has any right to interfere as long as you 
don't interfere with them. Have fun. 

By the way, alt.magick tends to say away from religion and religioous topics, 
as a part of our charter. Examining the validity of your religion or anyone
elses, or critiques thereof are frowned upon, and I'm stretching it to post 
a reply to your query.  If you can't discuss magick here without dragging
religion into it, then be prepared to be blasted to oblivion.  Good luck. 

Everything you know is wrong. Nothing is true, everything is permissible. 

		-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
		"Every man and woman is a star"	 - Nina Hagen
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: empathic links
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:15:07 GMT


The following is my theory on empathy and distance.

I find that empathy definitely decreases when I am not near another person.
However, I find that rate of decrease is proportional not to the distance, but
to the number and activity of the persons between me and the other.  Therefore,
I conclude that the relevant factor is interference, not distance.  I do find,
however, that I can cope with the interference if the other person and I are
using some method of attuning ourself to each other.  The usual case of that for
me is long-distance telephone calls.  That is, the verbal communication brings
our minds to focus on each other and on the same ideas.  Then, the empathic link
can be brought to bear.  This can also be accomplished by use of ritual--if we
are working on the same ritual intent, at the same time, I can "join" the
circles.  Please note that these methods do not remove the interference, they
simply provide ways to cope with it.  I think it is similar to beamcasts with
responding signals to keep the beam aligned.  The link is usable under these
circumstances, but the energy expenditure is high--perhaps prohibitively high
for many people.

I hope this is useful.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic Defence. Help needed
Date: 13 Sep 92 04:28:37 GMT

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> NO ONE CAN HURT YOU UNLESS *YOU* LET THEM!!!!!

Not counting physical attack or coercion, I agree.  However, having been on 
the receiving end of physical assault, I assure you that there are indeed 
people who can and will hurt you without your permission.

These cases, admittedly, call for rather different (and less subtle) modes of 
response than "psychic shielding".  I have found that pressure on the carotid 
artery works well against unarmed opponents, as does the more traditional 
knee to the groin.  Against armed opponents, a Mossberg shotgun provides a 
good price/performance ratio, without requiring as much training or accuracy 
as a handgun.


Amanda Walker
-- 
The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back.
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 10:16:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

9209.08 e.v.  [The Birthday of my Abyss!]


Lots of nice postings about pentagrams [and Easter?? :>].  A note to
the unwary:

'Inverted' and 'upright' imply a 'correct' orientation of the star.
If you want to be seen as a fundamentalist or an ignoramus, please
use these terms. ;>  Otherwise, I suggest what some others have taken
to use: 'point-up' and 'point-down'.  Adios!

Thyagi
------------------------------------
Fear is, in some ways, the opposite of love.
From: ramos@engr.latech.edu (Alexandre Ramos)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Is there a FAQ?
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:47:05 GMT
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

hi,

I'm sorry to bother you all but I just found out about this newsgroup.

Is there a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) compilation? Posted weekly? Monthly?

If so please let me know or e-mail a copy if you have it. If you are sure that
there is no FAQ then also please let me know.

Thanks in advance.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      |       Alex Ramos       | fala-se portugues, tche! 
ramos@engr.latech.edu | Electrical Engineering | se habla espanol         
                      |      LA Tech Univ.     | english spoken here
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ... moving in silently, down wind, and out of sight ...            Pink Floyd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: power points in france
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date:  7 Sep 92 13:33:32 GMT

Kerwin Yap Chua <kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

(I think bill nelson) writes:

>>What would be the purpose of this protective net? 

>I don't know.  This is the only theory I know, and I heard it from a
>coven of Wiccans back in my hometown in Florida.  I have the vaguest
>notion that it is "protective", and I really shouldn't have used the
>word cause it might not apply. If anyone else knows more about what I'm
>talking about then post, please.

most systems of this type (all that I have any familiarity with) 
conceive of these nodes and lines as reflecting the energy field
of the earth (or some such concept).

josh

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:22:40 GMT

In article <83950131@otter.hpl.hp.com> cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
>Semhaza writes:
>>Intriguing...I'm heavily kinesthetic myself, though I can muddle through with
>>visualization. I am noticing a pattern here. Wonder if kinesthetic people are
>>more likely to drift into alt.magick?
>
>Unlikely. I think you are seeing people with a chip on their shoulder
>(i.e. me - I won't speak for Shava or BA ;-) speaking up because of the
>fairly monolithic emphasis in magical literature on visual stuff. 
>
Well, I have a bit of a chip, but I also have a really prejudicial opinion
about this.  Most of the folks I know who are, in this vocabulary, kines-
thetically oriented end up doing a lot of reverse engineering on the 
traditional literature -- which means that they are better than the average
visually-oriented student to begin with.  

I think it has something to do with not being vulnerable to a certain flavor
of idolatry that sucks in a lot of image-oriented folks who take a lot of
the visually-oriented literature so literally.

>Something which intrigues me a great deal is that during OBE's I have
>pin-sharp visuals, and I can do my complex visualisation exercises with
>no difficulty whatsoever. Hmmmm....

I have had visual images only under very special circumstances, but the
most rich has been a bilocational OBE experience.  However, that was not
*just* visual, but fully filled out in all senses.  It was like being in
the mundane world and the dream world at the exact same time, conscious
and functional in both.  (Yes, I dream in color when my dreams involve
mundane images.  I also dream in scent, touch, taste, sound, and so on.)

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Love spells?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:33:00 GMT

In article <lindsay.716368031@cs.wisc.edu>, lindsay@green.cs.wisc.edu (Joe Lindsay) writes...
>>>I hope this isn't a FAQ, but does anyone know any good love spells?
> 
>>Why, just curious or needed for use?  It seems to me that if you
>>have to use a love spell its not worth it.
> 
>Is it worth it then if you don't have to use it? :-)
>I don't "need one, but I think it would be nice to have that extra edge.

?Extra Edge?.....Isn't that coercion?  I don't know about anyone else, but
to rob someone else of their own choices is wrong in my book. IMVHO!!!!!

If it is love you want, it will be all the stronger for finding it's own way.

If it is lust you want, sh*t you don't need magick for that.

Tammy
From: lindsay@green.cs.wisc.edu (Joe Lindsay)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Love spells?
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:33:38 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

I hope this isn't a FAQ, but does anyone know any good love spells?

-- 
Joseph C. Lindsay, III - "Wouldn't you like to be a fraction, too?"
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 20:11:26 -0400 
From: Kerwin Yap Chua <kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: A little info please...

(Nobody get on my case for metioning the Necronomicon: This person wants
the info, and I feel obliged to give what little help I can . . .) 


>Subject: A little info please...
>From: z_hiltoncc@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
>Date: 7 Sep 92 05:32:06 CST
>
>In a bit of an aside, I'd like to summon Yog-Sothoth to sire my grandchild. >
>Could someone please E-mail me some information on summoning?  How
>should I go
>about it and what precautions should I take?   
>
>Serious replies only.                                                
>

This is as serious as it gets.  Read carefully.
If you are to believe anything in the good-ol' Necronomicon, then take
this literally.  There is a book of the N-con called the URILLIA text,
which is supposedly where Lovecraft got the name R'lyeh.  Within this
book is the information which largely discredits it, namesly the
summoning of the Ancient Ones, of which Yog-Sothoth (or IAK-SAKKAK as no
one notices him named) is supposed to be a greater part of.  Anyway, to
make a long story short, you find an OLD altar, get some OLD offerings
to the Ancient Ones, and basically just yell for them in ancient
sumerian (you don't get a choice; you either call the all or you don't
call any of them).  Then judgement day and the awakening of the serpent
follows.

I have never tried this personally.  See the Necronomicon for complete details.

If I may submit a personal opinion; most of the Necronomicon is
bullsh*t.  The parts which are for real are the MAKLU text (which came
straight from the cuniform texts of Babylon) and maybe the first book
whose name I forget, which details purfication and covenance.  To
repeat; the summoning of demons and "evil" spirits in this book is what
gives real magicians in the world a bad name, and again discredits the
whole of the book, which is not all bad.  But if you truly believe in
that part of the book, then that is your right.
And if you actually do summon Iak Sakkak, there is no guarantee that he
will do anything you want him to (Lovecraft describes him as a glowing
blob of discoporeal spheres; the N-Con describes him as a keeper of the
"gates", the ways between worlds).  

(For the edification of the other readers, please read Lovecraft's
novellette "The Dunwich Horror", which details "rituals" on old "Indian"
hills in Arkham (which doesn't exist, thank you) where Old Man Whately
summons Yog-Sothoth to do strange things.  And the Necronomicon does not
have a page 798.)

Hope this helps.  Remember that magic is a personal experience.  If you
want to take this to a serious conclusion, follow the purification in
the first book to the letter (read it ten times before you try anything).

Kendrik Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu or
kendrick@CMU.EDU

Cthulhu for President, 1992!
(Please vote however you like).
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Psychic Defence. Help needed
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:25:35 GMT

Ok, I may be acting a bit silly but I feel that I may be the target
of a sub/concious psychic attack of some sort.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I may overcome this???

hook
From: lazarus@vulcan.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Date: 8 Sep 1992 22:47:26 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: vulcan.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <1992Sep8.013839.20454@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
>Backwards, again, I'm afraid.  666 is listed as 'the number of the beast' in
>John's Revelation.

The way I understood it, the number was incorporated into the bible sometime after
the time of Ceasar.  (Wish that I could give my source, but I can't bloody
remember it!  That's what sucks about being "trivia-minded".  :P  )

>Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
>/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
>    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
>    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */

--
Bart -Laz- Smith
Kansas State University
The 'Cats WILL rule in '92!
"You're too young and I'm too well hung..." -- Spinal Tap
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Dreams
Date: 8 Sep 92 05:54:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

laura@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Tygress) writes:
: Do most people think of Dreams as Prophetic?  Usually only
: recurrent ones?

Some are prophetic, but not necessarily just reoccuring ones. At
least not in my expoeriene.

: 
: Is it possible to have a Teacher reach you thru 
: Dreams?
: 
Yes, I have. Also, people that are not my teacher in the
clasical sense.

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Third Order of St. Michael
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:04:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.233934.29674@u.washington.edu> grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:
>Does anyone have a current contact address for the Third Order of St.
>Michael, an esoteric Christian group founded (I believe) by fantasy
>author Katherine Kurtz?

 A member (Amanda?) has posted information before. I have a copy of their
Charter on my BBS.

Wassail,
Grendel
Sysop of The Sacred Grove (206)634-1980 (local to the original poster)

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: augh. darn computer
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 02:09:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

WJS112@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
:       Any spells for bad computer systems? :)
: 

There is a Indian god of chaos. We invoked him when we moved to
get rid of the problems. Offered him flowers and malt balls..(only
food we had). Seems to have worked. I don't remember the name,
but he is similar in persona to Loki or the Amerindian Trickster.


--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: authors not Crowley
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BuAAy7.4FM@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085r6qm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes...
>In article <BuA7D8.2Fs@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes...
>
>I don't mean to 
>sound invasive, if I do. What makes all tick is what makes
>everything tick. I haven't been able to talk about these

You don't sound invasive.  What your posts lack in 
intelligibility, you make up for in entertainment-value and 
ideas. 

>topics with people to this extant  before the last couple
>of days. 

I sometimes talk to much too.  It sometimes helps me work things 
out, but then I must *do* something, or it was just a waste of 
time.

Question, how are you going to approach magick, since you dislike 
meditation?  The only other approach I've heard of is large 
amounts of hallucinogens.  Just curious.

Also, somewhere you mentioned fundamentalist healers.  I think 
its a  a lot of nonsense.  People just wanting to believe and 
talking themselves into it.  Just my opinion of course.  Don't 
mean to rain on anyone else's parade.  (My grandmother gets healed 
regularly by a healing priest, and tells me all about it.)

>I just like to know how others with similar interests
>are keeping their time.
>           IN OTHER CIRCLES THE WORD MIGHT BE,
>                         "NOSEY"
>                                          Forever,
>                                           Friend of Erin
>> 

- Peggy -
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Authors not Crowley
Date: 7 Sep 92 01:29:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes:
: 

: couldn't tell by my light-stepping due to the rather
: rational compulsion to avoid FLAMING,...whew..,) and

People are human, when they have a bad day, they snap.
Don't be afraid of flames...Your fear will really weaken you.

: I'm certain that there might have been much previous
: talk of the works of other practioners... not neccesarily
: yourselves, I just haven't seen it.

Talk about a person, or topic just happens for a while. 
Crowley happened to be in season.

: 
:      I'm becoming self-conscious about my long windedness,
: so I'll just finish up by  bringing up that it would be a
: reasonable thought to speak of Robert Anton Wilson, Antero

RAW did show up here a while back. If you want more about
him, there is an alt group just for him, or the fnord-L server.

:      On the one hand, I hope I haven't aroused the FLAMES
: of Justice through misuse of a term or a misplaced idea,
: on the other hand, I don't see much place in an intelligent
: forum for so much fortressing and behavior justifcations...
: Oh well, it looks like I've already started doing both.
Erlickda
: 
:      I'm looking forward to communicating with everyone
: on this network....... I'm much impressed.
: 
Welcome.
--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA