From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:01:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.111447.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.022822.26077@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) writes:
>> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
 
>>> Neither of us wants to become integrated!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neither of "us"?  Who might that be?  Do you think that all blacks think alike
on this issue?  That all whites do?  Come off it.

>>> Who has been the primary detriment regarding the integration efforts of the 
>>> 1960's???  Oh no we don't want integration!
>>> Remember 2,4,6,8 we don't want to integrate?

Who?  It wasn't me.  I was not even born when that was going on.  I have 
never thought or said that, do don't go around implying that since I
look a little like people who have said such things, I agree with them.
It is about as sensible as saying that because they are black, people must
agree with Idi Amin.

>>> I didn't see no white folk in the ghetto trying to integrate into thier 
>>> schools! 

NOBODY wants to go to ghetto schools.  Why are you assuming that Ghetto=Black?
 
>>> Blacks may not want to integrate now, at least I don't since, IMO, it has
>>> been a failure.

Do you mean that integration has not taken place or that it has not been an
improvement?

>>> Regarding Vanilla Ice.  How many black rock stars do we see?  They are out 
>>> there.  You can play on my turf but I can't play on yours!

Depending on how narrowly you define "rock music", there are a lot of them.

>> 	You mean like Michael Jackson and Tina Turner? Just a couple of
>> examples. I dont really see that part as true- nor have I ever heard a
>> white person say that they could be a rock star becuase they were black...
>> As for the 1960's- I dont know, I wasn't born then. All I know about is

>  Many of you white people really blow my mind.  Just about 3-4 weeks ago
>  I was having a local battle with university employees on our own local 
>  conference.  My argument was why is it that the local rock & roll station
>  doesn't play any of Tina Turner, Mike Jacksons collaborations with rock
>  artists, John Butcher, Stevie Wonder's remakes of the beatles as well as
>  many other black artists rock remakes,  but when a white rock artist covers a
>  black artists song(i.e. Red Hot Chilli Peppers do Stevie Wonders 
>  "Higher Ground") they get all kinds of airplay on ROCK stations.
>  The unanimous counter argument was that all the black artists I mentioned 
>  weren't rock.

As I understand it, radio stations have very narrow definitions of the artists
that can constitute their play lists (this is true not just for rock
stations, but also for country, rap, oldies, etc.).  Do you really think this 
is a matter of racism?  I'm often not even aware of the race of the
musicians I'm listening to, and I suspect this is the case for many others
as well.

>  So what is it now that YOU PEOPLE are trying to say?  They are rock now?
>  I can send you a transcript of the discussion if you like.  Better yet I may
>  even post it in this conference.  Then you can argue the position that Mike
>  Jackson and Tina Turner are rock.

If the play list is heavy metal oriented, then no, Jackson & Turner don't
fit in.  What's your complaint?  Are you saying that their music is of
the same genre as the other artists?  Does Prince have a hard time getting
play on the station?  I think his music (well, some of it anyway) has no 
trouble getting play on straight rock stations.

Do you really think that the program directors at radio stations want to
keep blacks off the air?  Come off it.  They want to play good music that 
fits their genre.

>> what I have seen in my own lifetime, and what I see two sides that really
>> have no desire to work things out anymore.

>  I can't speak for everyone.  As for myself I have tried.  Forget it, the
>  solution is seperation.  

Separation of whom from whom?  Would you rather live near blacks or whites or
honest people or dishonest people or bigots?  My preference is to live near
honest non-bigots regardless of their race.  Would you care to defend the idea
that it is better to live next to a dishonest person of your own race than
an honest one of another race?

>>>  How can we live together if we are both so different?  Good question.  Big
>>>  daddy U.S.A. should have thought about that 400 years ago.

So different?  I am much more like Thomas Sowell than I am Charlie Manson
or David Duke.  Why are you so obsessed with race?  Other differences are
FAR more important.
 
>>>Go back to africa is not that old.  I had to hear it throughout high school
>>>when neither myself or many whites were familiar with what Africa was all
>>>about.  So what has happened to that phrase?  Are whites afraid it might
>>>come true?  I'm game!!!  It is a solution to be considered.  U.S.A. certainly
>>>has the military strength and financial wealth to carry it out.        

If that is where you want to go then go.  I don't want to force anyone to 
stay here against his will.  On the other hand, I would be violently opposed
to the government shipping out people who don't want to leave.  Why oh why
do you think it is so terribly important that people of the same race ought to
have the same ideas?  It's not true that they do now, nor is such a condition 
likely to develop.

>> 	Well, frankly, I don't think I would mind that- why dont you put
>> forth a bill with your local rep., and while you are at it why not take
>> Terry Parks and all his (or her, not sure which) friends with you... you
>> two seem to be made for each other. Honestly, I try to be reasonable and
>> what do I get? Another of the ameriKKKa speeches. Save it, I have heard it
>> all before.

>  As far as leaving I'm glad you see things my way.  At least I'm not alone.
>  Now if we could just convince "The Man" to send me and the rest of blacks
>  away since, I don't want to see yall's ugly face no more and yall don't 
>  want to see mine. 

Don't tell me what I want or don't want to see.  What I want to see is good,
competent, honest, intelligent, non-racist people around me.  I don't care
what race they are.  It's too bad you consider the importance to be the other 
way around.

>  Nothing like permanent real tangible solutions to permanent real problems.

One is for racist such as yourself to be shown the error of your ways
whenever you say things like this.

>  It's going to take some time, but I have time.  Might have to shake & quake 
>  the place up some, but I'll get the job done.  I live for it!!!

You live for what?  Causing trouble (ie. shaking & quaking) because you
don't like "the man"?  What a noble goal to have for your life.

--Brian
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5348 soc.culture.african.american:12971 misc.education:5331