HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Willies salary (was Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis)
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:41:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.203105.904@ultra.com> wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway) writes:
>Unless you happen to be Willie Brown, that is -- he seems to be able
>to afford multiple cars of the Ferarri/Lambourghini class on a State
>Assemblyman's salary.  Now THERE'S budgetary wizardry for you! :-)

In addition to being a State Assemblyman, Willie Brown is also a
partner in a quite successful law firm.  I assume that he gets 
the majority of his income from that job.  Now, if you want to argue
that there should be limits on outside income for our state
legislators, I would be eager to listen.

Guido
From: manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Jeff Dauber's posting on NAMBLA
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:51:10 GMT
Organization: DSC/Optilink Access Products

In article <ofv2mmg@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>I draw the line at prepubescent children.  However, post puberty, I do not
>mind (as long as it is consensual).

I don't want to drag this out too much longer but allow me a few
follow up statements and questions.

Let's use the term adolescent for a post-puberty child that has not reached
maturity.  What is maturity?  That's tougher to define, but just for argument
let's give an adolescent only 3 years.  They then turn adult at around 15-16.

There are two scenarios here:

1. The adolescent approaches the adult looking for a sexual relationship.

2. The adult approaches the adolescent.

I will agree with you that in the first scenario there are cases,
maybe many cases, where this would be okay.  I think I would prefer if
the adolescent was my child that the adult politely decline and
suggest the adolescent developing a relationship with a more closely
aged partner, but, that's just my opinion.

In the second scenario I have a real problem.  I don't think adults
should pursue adolescents.  I can present reasons if you wish but
I think this has been done before.

Question: do you think it is okay for an adult to sexually
pursue an adolescent?

--
dave
manley@optilink.com



Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:21:10 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Distribution: ca

I just read an article in the San Jose Metro weekly.  Seems that this 
delay in resolving the state budget crises may be a purposeful political effort on Wilson's part to gain support for Prop. 165

Prop. 165 (will be on the November ballot) will cut welfare funding as well
as give the govenor greater fiscal authority.  Since the legislature is
up for re-election in November and Pete still has two more years he has
nothing to lose by waiting.  To quote a passage from the article, "
This image of a deadlocked Legislature that can't get a budget passed...
it'll make Prop. 165 look like the perfect solution to voters.". 

I will look into this further.  I suggest yo do the same.  But if this is true, this is politics at its worse.  We deserve better. 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Darlene Wiedman                  "If you're not part of the solution, +
+ darlene@flash.ATC.Olivetti.COM      you're part of the problem."      +  
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++  
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:29:21 GMT

In article <11795@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>You seem to have cut out Mr. Radow's organization line -- the 
>North American Man-Boy Love Association.  Or maybe they just mean
>something Platonic. :-)


Roy is the only member of NAMBLA on soc.motss.  That is one for you.


># Jeff is talking here about a relationship he initiated when he was 12.
>
>Or thinks he initiated.

Don't try this bullshit tact with me again clayton.  I know what I start
and what I do not start.

>  Child molesters frequently insist that the
>child was "coming on" to them.  Why?  Because it absolves them of
>responsibility (in their eyes) for what happened.  Why do I suspect
>that Jeff has turned the nature of initiation around?

Because you are a bozo.  I started it.  How come the only way you can make
this argument fit your hateful little world is by pretending that something
other than the truth happened?


># (The implication is the relationship was homosexual in nature, but it
># is not explicitly stated.) He has not explicitly advocated adults
># pursuing children.  In another posting I question Jeff whether it is
>
>He did explicitly advocate that adults having sex with children is
>perfectly OK.

Liar.  I say that consensual relations between post-pubescent people and
adults are okay.  I did not "explicitly advocate" anything.  You are
starting to invent things again.


FWA
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:43:43 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug12.204923.8495@clipper.ingr.com> mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell) writes:
>In article <55671@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman) writes:
>> There seems to be a lack of leadership in Sacramento (witness the budget
>> fiasco), so I am considering starting a petition drive to recall Gov.
>> Pete Wilson.  I have called the Secretary of State and I will be receiving
>> all the info I need in a few days.

>> What are your views on this matter.  Is it worth my time to try to get this
>> initiative under way?

>       Darlene,

>           I say DO IT! Neither Gov. Wilson nor our illustrious state
>representatives can make a decision about our states well being. 

Mike, it seems quite clear that Wilson has made a decision.  It's just
that he's having a bit of trouble browbeting the legislature into
going along.

Can you explain your comments?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:09:01 GMT

In article <19607@fritz.filenet.com> asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
...
>
>I'm still waiting for someone to propose that we back the high tax down
>to match the low tax.  That should be about as "fair" as fair can get,
>whilst still being used in the same paragraph as "tax."
>
>I'll happily support such a change.
>
>-- 
>The Chipmunk.
>Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
>Pro is to con as progress is to Congress.


If you really want to do this, I would suggest that you get some people
together and start the initiative process. However, I would hope that you
would be a little more responsible than were the Proposition 13 people.
They promised people a tax cut. They didn't couple specific reduced spending
with the tax cut. You see proposition writers are just like other polticians.
They promise what their constituents want to hear. They avoid saying
anything that will offend.

Richard Foy           Standard Disclaimer


Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:47:30 GMT


Just a general question concerning recalls.  Do they really achieve
their goals.  Sure, if you get the incumbent out of office, but what
happens if they miss that target?  Doesn't a failed recall campaign
give the person tacit support?  Is this a bad thing to have happen?

Just wondering what a recall or failed recall really means...


FWA
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:15:05 GMT
Distribution: ca,world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <19675@fritz.filenet.com>, asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
> 
> How's this sound ... instead of financial penalties, how about effective
> vote penalization?  Ie, something like every day late costs so many
> votes.  Supposing after 50 days, that's 50k votes.  If they win 110k
> votes in the next election, only 60k actually counts.

<gasp!> But...but...some of them might *lose*....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Pacific Data Products
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:49:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.171522.3923@island.COM> guido@island.COM (Guido Marx) writes:
>   1)  Any fiscal year in which a budget is not in place by
>       the Constitutionally mandated July 1, the Legislature
>       and the Governor will LOSE 2% of their yearly salary
>       for each day that passes without a budget.  

Problem is, after 50 days they lose all incentive to ever have a budget.  Lets
make them pay $500/day for every day after 50 that there isn't a budget.  And
this comes out of their personal cash stash, not campaign contributions.

>   2)  There shall be NO "per diem" or any other "expense" 
>       payments to members of the Legislature or the 
>       Governor while there is no budget.  These payments, like
>       the salary, will be forfeit (ie: won't be paid back
>       once the budget is in place). 

There shouldn't be anyway.  I can only imagine if I sat here for 6 months and
picked my nose, then when the project's deadline arrived I suddenly demanded
overtime to work.  It's disgusting these jerks are getting $3,000 per month
for not doing their jobs.

I'd also add:

    3)  A special prison be built and all legisislators and the guv be placed
        in it when there isn't a budget on time.  No visitors.  No TV, either
        receivers or cameras.  No talking to the press.  No talking to family
        friends.  No furloughs.  You pay for the priviledge of staying therein.
    
    4)  If a budget is not in place by July 1 then no member of the
        Legislature, nor the governer, shall be eligible for re-election.
        Period.  They've already proven they're incompetant to do the job
        they were elected for, bar them from office for life.

The one thing that really convinced me we had a bunch of weasels in the
Legislature was the way they rushed through a special bill to allow their
own employees to get paid.  So everybody suffers except the ones they see
every day and depend on.  Wunnerful.

Wow, a thread with neither Clayton nor NAMBLA in ca.politics!  Maybe we all
owe the legistature a debt of thanks after all.

jim

-- 
Lawyers Creed:  What's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harkins                         [ucsd|uunet]!pacdata!jim
Pacific Data Products               jim@pacdata.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Clayton's head's garbage collector
Summary:  Can anybody spare some jumper cables?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:29:17 GMT

In article <11787@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> Manic-depressive?  No, the garbage collector is just trying to
> get some heap back. :-)

  Um, you might try a concurrent garbage collection scheme. Or better
yet, just turn the garbage collector off and rebooting when your virtual
address space is filled up. (Please reboot, *please*)
  Don't bother with recycling, you do that *way* too much already. 
Actually Clayton, you might just try not producing so much garbage.
It would really help on the landfill situation. Thanks a lot; we'd 
appreciate your support.
 
> There are particular postings that enrage me.  Postings that 
> justify using children as sexual partners are in that category.

  Have you considered Thorazine? I understand that delusions and
hallucinations are dramatically reduced by taking it. If that fails
you might consider hooking up the jumper cables to your car.

> I keep getting told that soc.motss isn't typical of the homosexual
> community.  Then I get told the gay parades aren't typical of the
> homosexual community.  But then I get told that soc.motss isn't
> so bad after all, and that the gay parades are just the diversity
> of the gay community.

  There, there, Clayton. It's OK, the boogy man is gone now.

  Oh Nurse Ratchet! Could you come over here? And bring the straight-jacket!
 
> I suggest that "normal" homosexuals -- the ones that don't
> have their entire lives tied up in constantly changing sexual
> partners and chasing children for sex -- either take an aggressive 
> position of showing that homosexuals aren't the groups that engage
> in the scary and absurd behavior, or ask the weirdos to stop
> screeching, "We're the gay community."

  And the muzzle too!

  Now there's a good chap, we'll fix your head. We'll get rid of those
nasty little men in your dreams.

> -- 
> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
> I can make myself popular on USENET again -- all I have to say is that I'm not 
> disturbed by the support for North American Man-Boy Love Association in the 
> homosexual community.  Being popular at a child's expense isn't worth it.

  Now here is pure fantasy. Gads, if you spent half as much time with your
fantasy life concocting alternate worlds for pulp science fiction as you
do with your obsession, you would be a rich man Clayton. 
  Oh btw, Have you stopped beating your wife?
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.212748.24888@aero.org> foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:
>
>What makes you so sure? Perhaps key players could be making enough
>money under the table that they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice they
>under the table source to retain their above the table pay and
>expenses.

Perhaps, but the vast majority of legislators would be hurt by this.
If the leadership tried this, they would be ousted.  Remember, the
only way that Willie Brown and others like him retain power is by
keeping a majority of the legislators in Sacramento happy.  Taking
away their salaries and perks is not a good way to make a politician
happy.  As it now stands, the politicians in Sacramento are able
to play these games of political "chicken" using other people.  At
least under my plan they are playing chicken with their own money.

I don't doubt that we might continue to see budget problems under
my plan, but these problems would be solved in hours or days, not
weeks or months.

Guido


Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Stan's Chosen Ones
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:15:36 GMT


Don't blame me, I voted for guido@island.COM (Guido Marx).
>Allow me to suggest just a couple measures which would go a long 
>way toward ensuring timely passage of a budget in future years.

Here's one I'd like to see:  A constitutional requirement that no
state taxes be collected for the period when the state has no budget.

I love it that people are signing their uncashable IOU's back to the
state for tax payments; I'd like to see the practice spread.

By the way--does anyone know at what point the financial losses from
our lower bond rating and from interest payments on IOU's will surpass
the gains the governor expects from education cuts?  Has it already
happened?

-- 
"I had generously shown on the stage my interior life as a raging beast, but
 my exterior life as a mediocre human being and dilettante of of normal int-
 elligence remained unchronicled...I *knew* that beneath my work's primeval,
 hysterical facade there was a calm little writer in an armchair just waiting
 to burst forth." -- Wally Shawn, on the writing of "My Dinner With Andre'"
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Subject: Re: ABA membership is voluntary, right?
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:51:22 GMT

In article <64103@cup.portal.com>, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
> Note that "real" law schools have to be accredited by the ABA. 

The WSJ also claimed that the ABA (by custom) vetted all judicial
nominations. If both of these are true, that is no small cause for
concern if the ABA is becoming partisan.

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan
Newsgroups: ca.politics,alt.politics.correct
From: brokow@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mike Brokowski)
Subject: Re: When are laws inappropriate (LA Civil Unrest Aftershock) (LONG)
Keywords: Laws, Rodney King, Civil Unrest, Aversions, Prejudice
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:44:12 GMT

In article <adams.714430446@cobra.Stanford.EDU> adams@cobra.Stanford.EDU (Allen Adams) writes:
>I completed jury duty a couple of weeks ago, and while on it I was a juror
>on a case that on the surface seemed rather tame, but turned out to be an
>aftershock of the LA Civil Unrest.  We ended a hung jury, with 10 judging
>guilt and 2 judging innocence.  Having discussed the case with several
>people, it is clear to me that there are times when laws were meant to be
>broken, and we as a society should be aware of when those times are.  
>
>[fairly lengthy description of the case elided]
>
>Questions:
>
>Since Mr. Green claims to have feared for his life, was this 2-3 mile
>excursion acceptable under the law??  Was Mr. Green trying to evade??
>What is the definition of evade (you'd be surprised how many people are not
>sure)??  
>
>I was one of the 10 who judged that Mr. Green violated the vehicle code.  
>I'd invite people to give reasons why that should/should not be the case.
>I hope this starts some interesting discussions, and soon I'll follow with
>what societal implications I feel this case brings out.

(I hope anyone who reads this has had a chance to read the original
post.)

Since Green probably did see the shotgun, his attempted escape and
later eratic driving do have a possible explanation.  I'm not sure 
I buy Green's version of the story, but I can understand anyone in
LA being easily spooked by cops brandishing guns, given recent 
events.

I admit to being among those who isn't familiar with the  specific
legal usage of the the term evade.  However, it seems to me that 
Green *was* trying to evade.  But is this important?  If he had 
good reason to believe he was in danger, then he *should* IMO try
to evade.  I know that "evade" has as part of its definition the
notion of getting away using deceitfulness, but I think that if
Green's life were in jeopardy he would be right in trying to avoid
his captures using any wits he had about him (hopefully without 
unduly endangering others).

Like I said before, I don't wholly buy Green's version of things 
but, given that the cops' actions were easily misunderstood and
that their story has major gaps in it as well (e.g. no gun, no 
drug test), I think that there is reasonable doubt as to whether 
he did anything wrong.

Still, he *did* evade (IMO) and broke the law, so whether he was
right or wrong may not play a part in the legal end of this.  I
think that the law on evasion needs to include a clause 
indicating that the pursued party be able to reasonably assume
that it will not be in danger when it submits.

  Any other opinions?

  - Mike
  Disclaimer: NU has no responsibility for the particular 
  manner in which my actions light up the phosphors on your
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Clayton and NAMBLA
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Mike Batchelor)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 08:14:52 PDT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

> In article <1992Aug9.012644.21208@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amhers
> > In article <11645@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writ
> > 
> > >You mean that ... the non-net evidence of
> > >homosexual support for NAMBLA should just be ignored?
> > 
> > Gosh, Clayton, to hear you say it, there is no non-net evidence.
> 
> Just the parades that they march in;

The parades where they get booed and hissed at.

> the ready availability of
> NAMBLA's bulletin in gay bookstores throughout San Francisco (according
> to the reports on KRON-TV a few months back).

NAMBLA's bulletin is available by US Mail.  Is the Post Office
involved, too?  You've posted them to this newsgroup, so you share in
the responsibility for propagating NAMBLA's views.

In spite of being absolutely insane, you seem to be fairly
intelligent.  Remember "The Last Temptation of Christ?"  Remember how
much extra revenue was generated by the protests against it calling
attention to the fact that the movie was not liked by the fundies?

The same thing happened recently with (forget the movie's name), but
this time it was lesbians, not Xians, who were portrayed in a manner
other than what they would have wished.  The protests served to
increase the attentionthe movie got, and filled the pockets of those
who made it.

You're doing the same thing.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us
[] Long Beach, California
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:51:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.170114.6707@jack.sns.com> jsb@jack.sns.com (Jim Best) writes:

> Well then how about marriages between a man and three or four women,

Why not?


> a woman and three or four men,

Why not?

> or a man and a goat, or a woman and a dog,

No consent.

> or you know I have this old ford I * really * love ! Humm maybe.....

Now you are being silly.


> The point here is if you want to destroy the institution of marriage then
> why place any limit on it at all?

Why does allowing two men or two women to get married destroy the instituation
of marriage?

> Or do you just wish to press for you own
> personal agenda?

Open your eyes, bozo, everyone is pushing their own agenda.  I am in a
monogamous long term homosexual relationship, why do I differ from a
heterosexual couple in the same situation?


> This is just a another example of an abnormal fringe group trying to get
> the rest of society to consider them normal!!!!!!!!!

You are full of shit, asshole.



FWA
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6878 soc.motss:35421 ba.politics:4596