From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: morality????????
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:54:00 GMT

9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Eidolon) writes:

>In article <1d3nt2INN7m6@shrike.und.ac.za>, dace@shrike.und.ac.za
>(Roy Dace) writes:

>> : Capital punishment should be administered only if there is no doubt.
>> IMHO, there is NEVER `no doubt'.

>I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here. No
>doubt the world has heard of the latest massacre here?

>(it seems to me that gun murders here are like plane crashes,
>you get hardly any, then all of a sudden, crazed gunmen are
>knocking people in half dozen lots at a time...)

>In this and a few other massacre cases here there was NO doubt
>they did it, the police saw them do it, others saw them do it,
>they confessed to doing it and one even came up and told them of
>bodies the police didn't find! Now how can you say that there is
>doubt in these cases?

>However, I am still against the death penalty since the times
>when there is no doubt are few and far between, innocents have
>been killed for less. Even if the death penalty was introduced
>they'd be so rare that they would have little to no effect in
>reducing capital crimes. They would instead get life sentences,
>where 'life' actually means they are in jail till proven innocent
>or death of natural causes. I think it's the reduced time spent
>in prison that's helping the crime rate go up, not the lack
>of eye-for-an-eye justice.

>For Mr Clark:
>I think the group exists to protect the rights of the individuals
>who make it up, so if an individual's rights are trampled on to
>protect the majority, expect to see a large number of people trying
>to leave the country. Witness the Soviet Union! An individual had
>nearly no rights, all that mattered to them was the society as a
>whole! As for the Spock scenario, Spock CHOSE to go in their; what
>kind of reaction would you give if someone said
>"HEY YOU, GET IN THERE SAVE US!" ?
I wasn't particularly talknig about that one episode of Sta Trek, but his
general idea of utilitarianism. But still the odd innocent that goes to the
chair (or whatever method of capital punishment) is unfortunate just as the
odd innocent killed in a car crash is unfortunate. You can put as much
flowery wording and authoritative quotes as you like but it doesn't alter
the fact that these people keep re-offending affecting the lives of more
innocents than would be sent to the gallows. Besides if I was the best man
for the job (as SPOCK was) I would have gone in their to change over the
dilithium crystals.

>  "The day we decide that the government is our brother's
>   keeper, that day the spirit of compassion will be lost.
>   If we abandon private charity, we will have lost something
>   of [America's] material, moral, and spiritual wealth."
>                          Herbert Hoover
>-- 
>John J McVey, Whyalla, Uni S. Australia    9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
>Electronic Engineering student & Terror Tekkie!
>Any email can be posted unless I state explicitly otherwise.
>+-----------------------------------------------------+    ________
>|  Obligatory disclaimer: UniSA hates my opinions...  |  \/Darwin o\
>+-----------------------------------------------------+  /\________/
>An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it. Marquis

Do you know that Nick Greiner's government has spent quite a sum of money
(in the realms of about 1/2 a million I think) to do research into ways of
making people think that the streets are safe. The decision was that it was
more cost-effective than to actually make the streets safer by improving
police training and increasing their numbers. Unbeleivable ain't it!

Jeff.