HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry in public places
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:29 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

sunshine@cco.caltech.edu (Tom Renner) writes:
#tsw!marc@uunet.UU.NET (Marc Kilburn) writes:
#
##Would some one outline for Wa. state the places I should NOT
##carry concealed?  ie. Federal buildings, taverns (?)...
#
#- No carry in certain restricted areas of airports, per FAA guidelines.
#- No carry in "restricted areas of a jail."
#- No carry in "courtrooms or judge's chambers."
#- No carry in "public mental health facilities."
#- No carry in "those portions of establishments classified by the state
#     liquor control board as off-limits to persons under 21.  This means
#     no firearms in bars or cocktail lounges."

Approximately correct.  Courtrooms are off limits only while they are
in use for legal proceedings.  In practice, some courthouses in this
state have metal detectors set up at the door, even though you should
legally be able to carry up to the door of the courtroom itself.

Most important: your list fails to mention Federal regulation.  In all
states, it is illegal to carry into a Federal office (such as a post
office).  Some restrictions may apply to other federal lands as well.

#- It is against the law to discharge a firearm in a public place.

Unless necessary to prevent harm to human beings, in accordance with
the doctrine of necessity.

                               -- Alane --
   /-----------------------------------------------------------------\
  /   NOBODY shares my opinions,    |    "I am a jelly doughnut"      \
 /    especially not my employer    |    -- President John F Kennedy   \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
From: JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting Rifled Muskets
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:18 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


      I've just picked up an Italian reproduction of the 1861 Springfield
rifled musket.  I have a few references showing what I should shoot in it,
but I'm interested in getting some feedback from this group about shooting
these guns.  What loads are the most accurate, in what guns?  How do the
reproductions compare to the originals as far as shooting qualities?

    From what I can gather, one big difference between repro rifled
muskets and the originals is the depth of the rifling.   The reproductions
have extremely shallow rifling, my rough measurement of mine shows
a groove depth of only .004 which is very shallow, although they may
only appear very shallow when compared to the large .58 cal bore.


    From what I can gather, most purchasers of these rifled muskets are
Civil War reenactors who only shoot blanks and never shoot live ammo, an
abhorrent notion if you ask me, since guns are made for shooting.

Michael Gordon
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: American Rifleman
Date: 10 Oct 92 13:39:23 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Oct8.035240.4528@tamsun.tamu.edu>, hmueller@orca.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller) writes:
# Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, allow me to congratulate
# Clayton Cramer on a nice, tight write-up on the inequitable penalties
# of California's weapons laws in this month's "American Rifleman".
# 
# Hal Mueller		  hmueller@orca.tamu.edu    

Thanks, but there are two minor errors that you should be aware of
before using it.  The first is that the text above my name that
refers to a Mini-14 is the work of the editors -- I know that the
Mini-14 isn't an assault weapon in California.  (I have informed
them of the error, and hope they will print a correction soon).

The other is that there is a minor typo where Cal. PC 12280 became
PC 1228.  The table with the article has it right.
	[MODERATOR: Hey ... its *still* a damn good article.... 
	 good job, Clayton!]
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading advice needed
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:19 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In article <m0mdfH6-0000bFC@ncoast.org> cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes:
#Subject: Re: Reloading advice needed
#As quoted from <1992Oct8.195845.2690@ee.gatech.edu> by mailrus!gatech!fisher.eedsp.gatech.edu!tucker@uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Tucker):
#
## How long does it take to offset the initial costs of reloading 
## equipment?  I'm talking about minimalist stuff, probably adequate
## for 100-200 rounds a month, max.  I'm not a real big shooter right
## now.  (But, if it weren't so expensive I might get that way.)
#
#With my Dillon 550B I don't think it took much more than a couple of months,
#and more like one.  At one point we were reloading so much 9mm that we were
#loading it faster than we could afford to shoot it at indoor ranges.
#
#	[MODERATOR: Took me about two months.  But as my wife points
#	 out to me, the computation of "savings" may not be entirely 
#	 since, of course, I've plowed any cash "saved" by handloading
#	 back into ... more shooting.]
#
This is akin to a classic Accounting problem relating to depreciation.  I'm 
not a CPA but there seem to be three options here:

1.
Write down the cost of yr equipment on a 'cost-savings' basis using the 
cost differential between new and reloaded ammo.  This seems to be a very
popular way of *justifying* the original purchase of a reloading outfit.  
You then amortise the up-front cost of the kit using the savings 
differential and derive a 'payback' schedule in either rounds loaded and/or
time.

2.
Depreciate your kit on a '1st usage' basis.  Here, the first round you load
you regard as costing you the full capital cost of your equipment, thereafter
the only costs you consider are the variable expenses of powder, lube, 
heads, and primers.

3.
Develop a time-based depreciation schedule -- e.g. writing down the capital
cost of the equipment on a reducing balance, say one-third per annum over 3 
years or by a fixed percentage per annum for so many years.

Many of these types of musings are probably only for made for 
whimiscal personal interest, with (1) and (2) probably being the most 
likely.  You work out how much you will save by reloading using (1)-type
logic, buy your kit and instantly write-off the capital cost, and thereafter
simply develop a close interest in the variable cost side of things.   Method
(3) seems to make the most sense when you're planning to up-grade your kit
on a planned cyclical basis (perhaps as part of a shooting club): buy now, 
use for 3 years, trade in, buy better, etc.   

Golly, I bet somewhere out there someone's developed a Lotus spreadsheet for
his home reloading production operation!   Me: it was (1), then (2), then as
the Moderator says...."Cost savings = Additional Reloading Kit"!!!!

Cheers,
Keith
From: @fuug.fi:maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating ability of 38 Sp and 9mm
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:28 GMT
Organization: Sweet Oblivion

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

# Phone books, newspaper and wood...  I tried all this and more
# (and I always cleaned up).  
# 9mm FMJ seemed to penetrate an unlimited quantity of any of these.

I have a true story about penetration on computer monitors:

I was helping out an amateur group making a movie to do a special
effect. We were to shoot a hole in an old computer monitor and
simultaneously shoot it with a paintball gun.

Well, we got set up. I disassembled the monitor, took out everything but
the tube and broke the tube a bit so the vacuum inside was filled. I
didn't want the thing to implode when I shot it!

We went to suitable place, assembled a backstop.

To reduce chances of overpenetration, I decided to use Hydra-Shoks.

It went fine and looks just great on video.

However, we never found the bullet. The monitor plastic casing was in
perfect condition, so it never penetrated even that far. I guess
Hydra-Shoks weren't meant to be used against marauding monitors...


--------
maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm/.41 Rem mag for dangerous game
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.psrpfyb
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <21480@drutx.ATT.COM>,
     ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240) writes:
#
#A question for the net.
#Living up in the Rockies of Colorado as I and my wife do, it seems we have
#recently been chossen as winners in the Colorado Mountain Lion adopt a family
#program.  Bottom line, one of these big cats a few nights ago sat in the woods
#near our driveway and declared we're on its turf by growling.  Scarred my wife
#half to death.  
#
#Any way, we have since taken precautions to protect ourselves and our sled dogs. 
#I think the bug guy (gal?) was drawn in by the scent of a new puppy (yum-yum).
#
#Well neither my wife or myself go out of the house at night with out a handgun strap
#ped on.  Hers is a S&W mod 57 .41 Rem mag with W-W 175gr Silvertips, mine a
#Stainless Delta Elite 10mm with Hornaday 180gr XTP full pressures.  
#
#My question is this.  Has any body used either of these loads on dangerous game
#and if so with what result?
#
	Lions are thin-skinned and pretty easy to kill, unlike most other
  "big game".  Many of the old-time lion hunters who hunted them with dog
  packs used .22 LR to shoot the lions out of the tree with a head shot.
  I don't think you need to worry a bit about wither the .41 Mag or the
  10mm Auto is powerful enough to kill one - but as with all hunting,
  bullet placement is a LOT more important than caliber.

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: more silencer questions
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:04 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1ag8niINNrq9@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> paladin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Robin Yang) writes:
#
#     Wiperless silencers?  Aluminum shavings for baffling material?  Why
#metal shavings?  Why not a variant on the steel wool?  And what is the best
#baffling material for low-power rounds?  I imagine the requirements change
#depending on the original report.

Steel wool tends to burn, as do aluminum shavings. Fiberglass insulation
is better, but tends to pack down too much after a few shots. The better
designs just use properly sized and shaped expansion chambers with no
packing inside. The best designs use an acoustic damping material on the
*outside* of the silencer barrel. Rubber works well, as does several layers
of duct tape. This damps the "ringing" of the metal silencer body.

Gary
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: liasun6.m0mePuP-0008P5C


##	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
##military?

The glock is the ordnance pistol of the Austrian army. In the US, Glock
claims to "own" around 40% of the police market.

Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  |     or: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
MA-Ecublens                               | Standard Disclaimer
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: vtroll%triton.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Vincent Trollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Full Auto/Franklin Arsenal ?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.lmjpnjk
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Can anyone shed some information on M-16's made by Franklin Arsenal in full
auto configurations or otherwise ?
Are these weapons any good compared to Colt products ?
If you have any experience or read up on these and can comment please let me    know if possible!
thanks in advance!
Vince
e-mail to: vtroll@triton.unm.edu
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Canadians With Original Marlin 20 round mags for Camp Carbine -- please contact me
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:38 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA



What with your new laws up there about high capacity magazines, some
of you Canadians with Marlin-manufactured 20 round magazines for the
9mm Camp Carbine might want to consider selling them south of the 
border.  (Marlin doesn't make the 20 rounder anymore).  Of course, if
you would rather hide them, I understand, but if you would prefer to
be squeaky clean and legal, get in touch with me.  I would like to
buy some of the original Marlin-made 20 rounders.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Solvent Substitutes
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:27 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 13 Oct 92 13:18:43 GMT, douglas@netcom.com (Douglas Mason) said:

Doug> In article <1992Oct12.142006.22614@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:

#The brake cleaners are identical to "Gun Scrubber" and it's ilk, and
#are a lot cheaper to boot.  I buy mine at a warehouse outfit (Price
#Club) for something like $1.50/can or so.  It works fine on all my
#firearms, with only a little softening detected on a Marlin Camp
#Carbine when I left a rag soaked in the cleaner on the plastic on the
#receiver.  I'd test plastics in a concealed place before spraying 
#the cleaner with abandon.

Doug> Is this really true?  I had some guy in a gun shop (they know
Doug> everything) tell me that the Brake Cleaner stuff is really
Doug> flammable, and the Gun Scrubebr (scrubber) stuff is not - that's
Doug> the difference.

Yes, they are different.  NO, neither one if them is flammable.  I
cannot tell you the chemical differences, but they definitely smell
different.  If the Casey smells different because of cosmetic smell
additives, then you definitely would be better off buying the Brake
Cleaner.  There might be something in the Casey formulation which is,
for instance, less detrimental to some plastics.  You definitely need
to be very careful around plastic parts because this is a powerful
solvent and can melt lots of different kinds of plastics.  Some of
them will merely soften a little, but many of them will just flat out
melt immediately and run before it dries off.

We use the Brake Cleaner at the shop where I am doing my gunsmith
apprenticing.  However, we only use it on metal parts.  We also dip
metal parts in 1,1,1-tri-chloroethylene, but we never use either one
of those on plastic or wood parts.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: No Rifleman
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:08:54 GMT


Can anyone give me an address I can write to or number to call for
the American Rifleman?  I am an NRA life member for over 20 years
and for some reason stopped getting the Rifleman.  When I called 
Washington last I received the Feb, Mar, and Apr issues in an envelope
but haven't gotten anything since.  I lost that number, and want to
get my copies.  I hope they don't still want me to upgrade my membership
since they give me such great service.
From: pismobch@well.sf.ca.us (Ed Devinney)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 870 magazine extenders?
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:01:37 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In article <1992Oct10.001030.28245@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (T
he Polymath) writes:
#I've finally decided on the shotgun I want.  On advice of a couple of LAPD
#SWAT team members, I'm getting the model they carry:  A Remington 870 with
#assorted aftermarket options (side-car, rifle sights, parkerized finish,
#sling and associated hardware, flashlight built into fore-end).
 
Most of this I got, but prithee, what's a side-car for a shotgun?  I
don't usually carry passengers on mine...
 
#My only concern is for the relatively short magazine (4+1).
 
Both Remington and Choate make them.  Choate's, at least, it a screw-on,
but you'll need access to the tool used to press out the 2 dimples that
are placed in the factory mag tube and prevent rounds from going past a
stock (4-round) length).  I expect you could peen them out yourself.
Choate aslo makes a nice detacheable sling swivel set.  All in all, pretty much
what I want to do to mine, when my other half finds work...
 
#[MODERATOR:  Let me also toss in a request for info from anyone who knows
#how to set up a ghost-ring sight on the 870, other than just buying the
#whole gun as a Gunsite special.]
 
Hear, hear!
 

-- 
ed devinney						pismobch@well.sf.ca.us
	"I don't know what the world may need, 
	 but a V8 engine's a good start for me..." - Cracker
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Solvent Substitutes
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:08:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Oct13.205358.959@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#Same as the brake cleaner.  Let's see:  I clean Glocks, SIGs and
#sundry other guns with synthetic parts with only the Marlin Camp
#Carbine showing any signs of plastic softening, and that only after
#letting a rag soaked with cleaner sit on the mag well made of plastic.
#Since then I've cleaned it a 1/2 dozen times with no problems at all.

#OK - here's the contents: 1,1,1 trichloroethane, perchloroethylene and
#carbon dioxide (likely as a propellant).  Nope, nothing flammable and
#identical to most of the gun cleaning sprays.

I've no objections to this being similar to gun cleaning chemicals, but
I think 1,1,1 trichloroethane _is_ flamable. (Not that this should be
too relevant: I can't think of any proper uses of brake or gun cleaners
that would be likely to ignite them...)

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Spent brass lead hazard... test kit found lead
Date: 10 Oct 92 13:39:44 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

#I get my lead blood test results back in a week or two.  If they are
#in the 'not to worry' range, then I'll gladly test the test more...

#If they show that I've picked up more lead than I'd thought, I'm
#willing to accept that the kit has shown me from where:  Most strong
#reading was the soot on the cases from the primers.  VERY WEAK was
#the brass itself.  Ergo, it's the primers that are the source of 
#the lead and it's dirty technique that is the problem...

Mike, good buddy, your experimental technique and your scientific logic
is as faulty here as it was in your methanol experiments.  If lead
shows up in your blood test, you will have proven only one thing and
that is there is some conduit for lead to enter your body.  A positive
test (something I'd be willing to wager against) and your little test
kit glowing positive don't even correlate much less establish a causal
relationship.  You'll need to answer a whole lot of other questions
before you can establish any causation.  Do you shoot at indoor ranges?
Is the ventillation system working properly?  EPA says that's where much
lead ingestion comes from for many shooters.  They've closed ranges
in Atlanta because of that.  Have you tested your water supply?
Do you do anything that might cause aerosols of lead compounds?

I'm involved with my wife in an area of much greater concern for lead
ingestion than shooting.  That is in her stained glass studio.  EPA and
OSHA have spent a lot of time on this environment and has done a pretty
good job of documenting the pathways.  Since stained glass workers
handle vastly more lead than an average shooter, the industry should
be a pretty good leading indicator.  The typical motherhood-&-apple-pie
recommendations not to eat in the work area and to wash the hands before
eating of course apply.  But the EPA's single biggest documented source
of lead ingestion is from lead oxide dust liberated from restoration works as
they are cleaned.  Nothing has been published in the trade indicating  
work with new lead requires any more precautions than not eating
around it.

My wife and I have tested a few times and have baselined each time.  That 
despite the fact that I shoot a pretty good bit, reload, cast bullets,
cast stained glass accessories for my wife, smelt old batteries for the 
lead and help her in her work.  I take no special precautions other than 
not eating and in doing my smelting outdoors.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 Win. Mag. pistols?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct8.232000.9350
Organization: Western Washington University

pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:

#Well, Grizzly makes the LAR in .45 Win Mag.  This looks pretty much like a
#1911 with a much larger frame, and the ones I've seen have had a compensator
#at the end.  They're beautiful guns, but quite large.  I saw someone at a 
#local range last Saturday who was firing one, and the sight was quite
#impressive (or scary, as the case may be).  From the other side of the range 
#(10 lanes down), the muzzle flash was still incredible, as was the noise.
#A little observation made it clear that recoil was not something to be taken
#lightly, either...

A shop nearby has one in .44 Mag.   It's about the best "novelty pistol"
I've seen, just from what I can tell handling them.   They are chunky 
1911s, and kinda big for my big hands even.

I don't know what kind of nutburger would want a .50 AE, as .44 Mags and
.45 Win mags kick, flash, and boom enough for any person, imo.

Jim D