HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:53:18 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep10.170718.14770@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
|> In article <67950@hydra.gatech.EDU> me12@prism.gatech.EDU (Reza Ebrahimpour 32199) writes:
|> >Hi Everyone,
|> >
|> >On a more serious subject, all these claims of being the best seems 
|> >quite foolish. There are some excellent players in the game, and given
|> >the multi-player nature of the game, it is impossible to rank them 
|> >with a good precision.
|> 
|> 	I dunno about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure that a person with
|> unlimited time to spend, even if a beginner, is better than an overexetended
|> 'name player'. Skill is all well and good, but TIME is the determining factor.
|> 
|> Tom

This unlimited time factor only applies after you reach a certain level
of skill.  A beginner isn't going to run over a 'name player', no matter
how much time he spends on the game.  Beginners don't know how to adequately
defend their countries (if the DO know all this stuff, they aren't 
beginners) and will often log in one day only to find that they've been
all but totally over-run.  I bet just about any name player would beat
just about any beginner if you restricted the name player's login time to,
say, 60 mins, and the beginner had unlimited time (most of the time the
name player would only need about 15 mins to do his stuff, though).


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
(a.k.a. Ultima)
-----
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds)
Subject: Update changes? Eeeww!
Summary: I cant think of any that will work
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:43:17 GMT

    Granted land war in empire is stupid. You have to be on right
at the update, type as fast as you can, and the best you can ever do
is to gain one more hex-row than 1 minute ago.

    1 ETU/update and "each country decides it's own updates" sound
good at first, for different reasons, but I see big problems with
both.

    1 ETU updates have the advantage that troops could move
quickly through undefended land. The disadvantages are too
numerous to mention.
    Anyone who thinks a 1 ETU update every 25 minutes or so would be
a good idea should be forced to play in a game with 4 16-hour updates
against insomniac high-school students. That would teach them.


    For picking your own update to really work for me, I'd have to
be able to change it, since I'm not free at the same time every day.
Of course, changing it is out of the question. Maybe you wait until
after someone has had theirs, then get yours plus the update for the
next day, or you wait to take yours a minute before theirs to screw
them up, if you're at war.

    Still, being able to pick a single time when I'm usually free
sounds like it would be good.

    Say I want to attack LoserLand. This is the kind of guy you
can beat with 2 landers and nothing else. I update attack him on
my update. It turns out LoserLand's update is when I work. Even an
incompetent fool like him will log in before then and push me off
before and after the update.

    OK, say I'm at war with Bobsland. His update is at 3AM my time, so
I just can't make it. Before the update, he tries to air-strip me. He
fails, naturally, but after his update he gets 32% more in each plane,
and two more flights worth of mobility. My planes get nothing.
    He can't fail to airstrip me now, capture my airports, etc...,
etc... That's even worse than sleeping through an update, since at
least my planes would have gotten repaired.

    I now have my update to recapture my airports and bridgeheads.
Luckily I have a few light bomber 1's to bomb my capitol down to 4%
and redesignate it, since there is no way I can stop Bobsland from
paradropping and exploiting into it while I sleep.


    Frogpire's idea of only allowing attacks from 5pm to 11pm,
or somesuch, doesn't change update attacks, but at least keeps
you from being worked over at night, and doesn't make things too
much worse.
From: zklf0b@gs144.uucp (Fergason)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: : tcejbuSeltiT)
Keywords: n
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:43:30 GMT
Organization: Amoco Production


In article <Sep.14.11.24.18.1992.14590@dropout.rutgers.edu> mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes:
>
>   Someone a while back suggested a rating system for players, rather
>like that used for chess.  It has some flaws (for instance a player
>who is good, but can't put in 20 hours a day playing may be outranked
>by a player who is less good, but can put in the hours; a run of lousy
>start positions can damage your rating; people might begin using their
>rating as another ego-enhancement, etc.)  But it might give a measure
>for Deities to use in selecting players, e.g. only players with
>ratings above a certain number, only players with lower ratings, etc.
>There has been a movement sort of in this direction already, with
>invitation-only, and novice-only games...

Two systems were proposed at about the same time, although Mithrillien
has been working on his longer.  His system is the one mentioned above.

>
>   The way I'd suggest it is that there be some person or committee
>who "sanction" games as being "ratings" games (sort of like chess


<Discussion of a system by Baldric omitted>

I proposed a system based on what is currently done in fencing.  The
players would have a ranking, A thru E, and unranked.  The games would
be rated by the ranking of players in the game, Group 1 through Group 4.
Group 1 is the most difficult, having several A's, B's, and C's each.
The winner of a Group 1 gets an A ranking, Group 2 gets a B ranking,
and so on.  

Its a tad more complex than that, but not much.  The major problem is
that nobody really cares.  kinda like the tournament.  everybody would
love to have one, but if anybody offers anything, everybody shuts up.
oh well, I cant wait till I get real internet access again, because
I am starting to have serious withdrawals.  :-)


Kelly
h2s
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:02:32 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <1992Sep14.133400.17141@athena.mit.edu> tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.183744.23793@athena.mit.edu>, madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters) writes:

>|> 	Got it backwards Mike. Ultima blew Zenith down to 5 or so sectors,
>|> but then left for Christmas, and Zenith came back to supply the world with
>|> nukes...

>Right on, Doug.  Anyone who knows anything about the infamous '89 Washington
>Game, knows that I nuked the crap out of Zenith and Kaerconan (the only power
>block that had a chance of taking away the coveted yellow jersey)
>to basically end that game in spite of the deity's assistance to Zenith, Kaer,
>and the other washington players (at least that's what U.S. of Madison tells
>me).  A few people kept on playing over Xmas break after the game was over
>and that's where the rumors of the 'great Zenith comeback' got started.

Geez...not this again.

Just because you blew your wad before Christmas break did *not* mean the game 
was over.  And, believe it or not, the exit of you and Atlantis at that time
did *not* take anything away from the game.  The 'few players' (in this 
terminology, few = most) still playing the game had an excellent time well
into January and the game came to a classic conclusion.  The decision as to
whether a game is ended ultimately rests with the players who stuck it out, 
and nobody but you and your fellow early punch-outs seem to feel that the 
game was done.

>|> Hey Danny, my favorite guy was Macross..... remember him?

>No way, Doug. It was U.S. of Madison.  As a matter of fact, I was just reading
>some quotes from that OU game a year or so ago where we were all trying to
>get to U.S. of Madison.

Nah, Macross was the best.  USoM just whined and punched out, but Macross was
a classic fodder.  All the best fodder moves, the best fodder whines, and 
ultimately the best fodder death.
-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: jody@athena.mit.edu (Jody C Miller)
Subject: Once more, with feeling
Keywords: MIT empire client
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:09:57 GMT

I have ftped the 1.1 and 2.0 clients from empire.bbn.com,
and neither is behaving on Athena.  I know there are avid
MIT gamers out there, could one of you help me?

Thanks in advance.


Jody
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: How about starting a game???
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:58:40 GMT

Instead of all this bickering, why doesn't someone start up a one
update per day game like other have been asking for???  I've only
played one game and ended up in 4th, I'd like to have a chance to 
try again. - Aurel of Fyff


-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:03:52 GMT
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

In article <18s7hjINN44l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one) writes:
>
>how come nowadays, 90% of people that are being attacked and obviously
>at a disadvantage, fold up without a fight?
>
>I've never understood that one, because i've ALWAYS played to survive,
>and it seems to me an awful waste of time to go down with a wimper.
>
>Mike

Well then, why did you fold up in the Alaska Desert empire way back when
i rolled over you?
Your last post, mostly directed at me (email?) didn't make too much sense
to me ... as i tend to avoid attacking 'fodder' when possible, and ...
hell, i've already forgotten your post.

Anyway, my second point ... is a question :
What is more annoying.  This silly top ten/fifteen/etc lists, or the occasional
'remember washington 1989' posts...
Hell, i don't remember games i played 3 months ago.  You guys remember
games played almost 3 years ago?  Don't you have anything else to use
your valuable memory capacity for?

Jason -- Temekula
(retired and loving it ... flaming away)
From: ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:43:44 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark

Ok, so I got annoyed...I know I shouldn't do this, and my wife will kill me....
but I'll do it anyway.......

Now, for one thing, Redline claimed that NO non-US players were among
the best of the community.

For another: There are far more US-players than non-US players, so saying
something like 80% of the best players are US doesn't exactly impress me.....
maybe 80% of ALL Empire players are US-players......



Now down to business:

I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
that my wife and child won't like......:( ):

BUT the conditions of the game need to be such, that I have a chance to
perform as best I can.
Which means:

ROTATING UPDATES (yes, I know Redlien thinks those sthink...but if he wants
to claim he is better than someone we need equal terms).
AT LEAST 6 DAYS BETWEEN UPDATES (I simply can't manage anymore....
I PROMISED my wife this would be the last Empire game for some time).

And I need to wait some time before this challenge game can start......
I am currently playing the ALberta Invitational.....I need that to
finish first, and I need my wife to calm down after that one....:)


Now some additional comments:
1) A one-one challenge will NEVER prove who is the better player in an
   ordinary game, but just maybe it will settle this criticism of NON-US
   players.
2) This post is much more aggressive than my usual self. I guess I just got
   kind of tired of seeing this claim of only US-players being any good,
   not just once, but THREE times in the past year.....
   Last time it all ended in different "good" teams being proposed.....
   but no playing in the end.




Claus/The King of Graahoeje
(maybe not the best of Empire players but at least I have my pride)
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Ancient Empires?
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:04:12 GMT
Organization: the Elves of Briton

melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill) writes:
|Well, I dont if anyone else has done this, but I did run my *only* 
|attempt at being a diety, and I though it might be fun to try a low
|tech game. The maximum tech was 60, and ships and planes were all limited
|to that tech. Small world, only 12 countries. I think most countries
|had a pretty good time. Why doesnt some else run a game like this? I
|know I would like to play in one, or maybe if I could get a machine and
|some help, I might run one, but Ill admit, Im not a great diety......:)
|
|Melissa
|TOG
|

this idea flow better with land units.
once land units are done and bug free, we'll see a lot more low/non tech 
games advertised.

I know I'd run at least one blitz like that.

-michael
-Krikkit
From: kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Cracker-Jack Empire, and other assorted topics...
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:57:18 GMT
Organization: Redline Veterans Association


Suddenly a post becomes a challenge, how interesting.  If you recall, Redline
simply asked for discussions on the matter of US players being generally
better than non-US players.  If anyone takes this personally then look
for Redline in the next game and take your best shot, one at a time though
(unless you want a group vs group skirmish).  Redline will not be held
responsible for settling challenges from third-world nations that could
have been present in earlier games.  If you had been present, well then, you
would have helped prove my point... :)

But seriously, Hurricane Andrew impacts my life daily and this is not a good
time for Redline to break out the Un-Welcome Wagon (tm).  Even if I had time
I'd rather play a traditional empire game with the standard set of rules than 
some of the Cracker-Jack Empire (tm)-"Where every game has a hidden surprise!"-
typically found today.  Of course, Redline will extend invitations to all 
of it's allies for one last hurrah...

In all fairness, one country has shown great ability and is from Australia.
Redline went after this country in Merc V to see exactly how good this nation
has become, and I'm impressed enough to make mention of him in this forum.
Some may disagree, but Guzzer has made a name for himself despite early
criticism and has my vote... Cheers!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  _Made in Redline_   "Sectorjacking (tm) Specialists... "
                       For more information call: 1-800-ILostIt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: : tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:21:03 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

> so, rather than wasting bandwidth, i'll pose a question:
> 
> how come nowadays, 90% of people that are being attacked and obviously
> at a disadvantage, fold up without a fight?
> 
> I've never understood that one, because i've ALWAYS played to survive,
> and it seems to me an awful waste of time to go down with a wimper.
> 
> Mike
>
> Gee, I finally made a .sig file. Isn't it grand?
> Chris Green is way cool. :)   My idols are camels.  OH! You wanted sarcasm,
> well, just go read my .plan then. :)  - Mike Monthey heinlein@matt

They're probably not one of the elite American Gladiators who can win a game
with ten mil and a sector.  :)
 
i lost my Chainsaw country cause i was sick.  :(  
Went from 3 sectors to 20+, and thought i could hold out long enough to fortify
then missed three or four updates.  Sigh...

James Zuelow
FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu (-Te)
From: Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com (Thomas.Retkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Top Players
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:39:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

There are always good players...luck of the draw as far as territory always
helps, but here are some names for thought.

Afrika Korps
Vulgaria
Narnia
Council

Any others?  

-- 
****************************************************************************
** Thomas E. Retkowski              Addr: Thomas.Retkowski@Mixcom.com     **
** DePaul University                      Chicago, Il 60614               **
**                                                                        **
** "Fighting for a world without Liberal causes."                         **
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: NIKHEFK
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:57:19 GMT

kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski, Mr. Redline) writes:


)are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
)to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
)this topic).

Okay, let's see... At first: are you worth spending time and anger on... And
then of course you might be joking! Or drunk. Or high on crack. But anyway:
the answer is NO. No, not a single non-US player has ever proven himselve to
be among the best. The reason is, that such a prove has to be accepted as
being a prove by the group of players calling themselves 'the best'. Ah! So
the nations I will mention later can end up high on the power charts, beat
up you or any other 'ace', and in general perform just as good or better in
any game, but: they won't be accepted as being among the best.

To me, and maybe to many others here, it is absolutely clear that Vulgaria,
Graahoeje, Lochett, Finland, and even Guzzer, let's not forget Dr.Bob, can
play as good as you, Red. But PROVING? No, it's a waste of time. Every time
I beat a US ace, I get some excuse: not enough time, connection broken, JUST
dissolved, ace wasn't actually an ace (hi Barb), you name it. So I play for
myself, and I don't care what you think, Red.

Vulgaria...
	Certainly NOT among the best. Although finishing each and every
	game on spot nr. 1, 3 or 4, mostly with the highest tech... No,
	it's certainly not enough.
Graahoeje...
	This guy can kill nations faster than any other. About the only
	person who calculates che numbers to... Ah, what the hack, having
	the largest country in lots of games doesn't say a thing. It's
	only because he ALWAYS has fodder around and the other players
	don't!
Lochett...
	Or... Mister XEMP. With this fantastic client he won his first and
	second game. Oakland University games. There ARE, however, two
	reasons why he can NOT be named among the best. At first he was
	so stupid to let others use his client as well... Second, he
	should have played Harvard games! Where cracks meet cracks!
Finland...
	Okay, he knows how to make tech. Only Lersing and Guzzer sometimes
	can (can?) do the same... But he just does NOT talk English good
	enough to be called good, you know. You see: if you can't talk the
	talk, we assume you can't walk the walk.
Guzzer...
	Guzzer is the most FODDEROUS of all nations. Even by winning games
	now and then, he only proves that he is indeed fodderous.
Dr.Bob...
	Look, the guy just started. A beginner isn't good, right?

)------------------------------------------------------------------------------
) _Made in Redline_  "When you've beaten the best, who cares about the rest..."
)------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I care about the rest  :-). Maybe I should have nuked you in MERC V.
But then, are you the best? Whahahahaha!

The Vulgar One.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: kmrobert@nyx.cs.du.edu (K.M.Roberts)
Subject: Re: Need for a slowish game!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: empire
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 03:09:58 GMT


	I like this idea...
	I mean, we have to have lives, go to school, work and eat _sometime_
don't we?  This sounds like a pretty good solution.  But one thing I would 
like to see in any game... command updates for the first two hours or so...
Theres not much to do for awhile in empire, might as well make that time
as short as possible!


--
kmr...                                      Fiction is created by writers
kmrobert@nyx.cs.du.edu                      Lies are concocted by liars
"I have engaged the                         Fiction is a string of lies
Theoretical Weasel!"                        I am a liar...
From: fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:14:04 GMT
Organization: UB

Re: replacing mil etc.  Another Empire is Arms idea that works great in that
game.  "mil" could be equivalent to garrisons and the like, ie, defense only.
Only units can move and attack and do all that neat stuff.  Paratrooping will
have to be done by special paratrooping units FINALLY making Empire
paratrooping more realistic, and untis can of course be loaded onto ships.
That way you could do an "enl #3 30" for quick defense.  Defense.  

And units could incorporate garrison mil into their ranks from the current
sector at a mobility cost.



-- 
Paul Fly                      | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing,
fly@acsu.buffalo.edu          |  but less interesting than looking."
v092pxca@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |    --Goethe
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:50:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.064945.20489@daimi.aau.dk> ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
>>Nice of you to add this all too common disclaimer: "Even if you do win, 
>>you're STILL not better than me!"
>
>All I meant was, that being a good Empire player is more than being able
>to win a one-one match......diplomacy is a great part of the game too.
>And being able to dedicate the time to run a huge coutnry......and....
>I could go on for quite some time. Most of these abilities you wont need
>in a one-one match.
>Claus/The King of Graahoeje

 One thing I have never understood about empire players. The 'name' players 
 always seem to rest so much on one victory. Like if a country beats you
 in one game then they are vastly superior to you. It is like any game, like
 sports, if the 49ers lose to the giants, then the in the playoffs, does 
 everyone say the 49ers are FODDER? No. I like to think of myself as a minor
 name player, as people know me, but I have been beaten. A few times badly.
 It will happen in a game, things dont always go your way, or you run up 
 against a superior force, or can be on(common excuse :)), whatever. Things
 happen and you can lose. Dont make excuses, just give your opponent a
 short congrats, and then try to kill him in the next game. Remember, its
 only a game, and usally one lose doesnt really matter in the scheme of things.

 BOTTOM LINE: This is a game, to have fun with.... geeez.

 Caeser M. aka Melissa Merrill
 TOG

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire