HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fsf@hpic006.mentorg.com (Rick Farnbach)
Subject: Re: K-TEC
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:32:16
	<1992Sep30.145819.11024@hemlock.cray.com>
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp. Wilsonville, OR

>>>>> On 30 Sep 92 19:58:19 GMT, dadams@cray.com (David Adams) said:

	David> All you have to do is come up with a mechanism that will allow you to turn 
	David> the milling plate at 28,000 rpm.   (With a little bit of power.)  I think
	David> this might take a little more energy than my weak arms can handle, but
	David> maybe and excercycle could handle it?

For the RPMs, you would use belts and pulleys, or just direct drive gears.  As
for the power required, the amount of power involved is proportional to the
rate at which flour is being produced.  Just cut back a little on the flow of
wheat vs. the electric unit and your arm should do just fine.  Assuming that
stone grinding and K-Tec style grinding are reasonably efficient, a hand
powered K-Tec grinder shouldn't take any more effort than a hand powered stone
grinder.  After all, both do the same job.

Peak power would be the next concern.  It takes very little energy to rotate
the grinding wheels when no wheat is present, but when cracking a grain of
wheat there could be a high impact load.  To sort of average things out, so
that some of the energy you put into the machine between grains of wheat can
be used to offset the impact load of the wheat, just add a fly wheel.

The final concern might take some work: rotational velocity.  If there is a
minimum rotational velocity at which the grinding elements must rotate, one
need only work the gearing such that it is easy to acheive.  If there is a
maximum rotational velocity for the grinding elements, then work the gearing
so that it is difficult for a human to acheive that speed.  If there is both a
minimum *and* a maximum you may have a problem, especially if those speed are
at all close together.  For this you'd have to work up some way of letting the
operator know they are spinning too slow, too fast, or just right, or you
would have to add some kind of speed limitter.  Neither of these ideas is all
that hot.

Rick
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Golden-86  (Was Montana-86)
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:23:22 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


 fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:

|David Adams (dadams@cray.com) wrote:
|: Montana-86 is a hybrid hard white spring wheat.  Spring wheat does not
|: come in any white non-hybrid varieties.  (In fact Montana-86 is the 
|: only hybrid white that I am aware of,...
|
|David, what exactly is the difference between "red" and "white" wheat?
|
|Gary


Well first understand that my source is the information I got from a 
salesman at K-TEC.

I was told that red wheat contains tannin (or more tannin?) and that makes
it just a little harder to digest.  

I know from experience that there is a signifigant difference in the 
collor of red and white wheat.  When the white wheat is milled the 
whole grain flour is a very light color compared to the red. 

BTW, I made a signifigant error in saying the name of this hard white
spring wheat was "Montana-86".  The actual name is "Golden-86" it is
grown by "Wheat Montana Farms" in Three Forks Montana.  Don't know how
I mixed up the name.  Sorry.


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: v122guez@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Dara M Fell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: how do I start?
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:20:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Forgive me if this has been said before but I'd like some starter of my 
own. How or where can I get some?

				Dara
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: how to make it light and fluffy?
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:35:40 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 17911@samba.oit.unc.edu, ajpierce@med.unc.edu (Andrew Pierce) writes:
|   Help!  I made starter from scratch and it works great and rises the
|bread well so I don't think that's the problem.  What happens is that I
|follow the recipe for "World Bread" in the FAQ and the bread comes out
|with a nice crust and lots of little holes in it etc. BUT it is quite
|heavy.  It makes great toast but is kind of on the intense side for
|sandwiches.  How do I make it more light and fluffy a la standard
|store-bought sandwich bread?
|     -Andy
|ajpierce@med.unc.edu 

There are many many reasons why the bread might come out a little 
bricky instead of light and fluffy.  I highly recomend "Laurel's
Kitchen Bread book" as a good source for trouble shooting in this
area.

Possible reasons:

	Flour does not have enough gluten.
		Try a better flour.
	Rising time was insufficeint.
		Try a second or even third rise.
	Rising time was too long.
		Try cutting it short next time.
		(or if this was a single rise, try a shorter first rise
		and include a second rise.)
	Rising temperature was too low.
		Try letting the bread raise in a warmer spot.
	Rising location was too dry.
		This allows the crust to crack and gas to escape.
	Rising temp was too high.
		Maybe the yeast died to early?
	Dough was too dry.
		Maybe the yeast had to do too much work?
	Culture was not healthy.
		Few surviving yeast cells might have insufficient
	 	strength.
	
	etc. etc.


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: recipes FAQ update
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:00:09 CDT

It has been some time now since the original FAQ for recipes was 
put together and we have had many recipes submitted since then.  

Hence I have up dated the file FAQ.recipes.  It is now a little
book instead of a large file.  ;^)

I will be posting it here in pieces.  Stay tuned.



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: FAQ.recipes  v2.0  (part 13/13)
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:37:34 CDT


#Subject: Sourdough Recipe Compilation, v2.0



1100	NON-SOURDOUGH or STRANGE BREADS

1101______________________________________________________________________1101
# From: Tom Molnar <molnar@utcs.utoronto.ca>

	Essene Bread



I just thought I'd share a new "discovery" of mine with the list.  It's
not sourdough bread, but it is pretty neat bread (well, I think so anyway).

My "Uprisings" whole grain bread book referred to a bread called "Essene"
bread.  Their version of this bread is unyeasted, and made entirely of
sprouted wheat.  Sprouted wheat goes through stages where the starchy
part gets converted to sugars, and the sprouts taste sweet.  This bread
is made of ground up wheat sprouts when they reach this stage. The resulting
bread tastes very sweet indeed, as if you soaked it in honey.  I was pleasantly
surprised by the results, so I'm passing it on to the rest of you.

Basic method:
	Sprout the wheat:

		- use 1 to 2 cups of organic hard wheat berries (otherwise
		  it may not sprout if treated with something)

		- put in one or two large jars, cover the mouth of the jar
		  with cheesecloth or something, soak the berries in tepid
		  water overnight,

		- drain water next day, and rinse the berries once in the
		  morning, and once in the evening.

		- when the sprouts are about 2 or 3 times as long as the
		  berry it should be ready (taste it along the way to see
		  how the flavour changes)

	Grind the sprouts:

		- dry off the sprouts a little by skipping the last rinse

		- preheat oven to 250F

		- use a regular meat grinder, grind the sprouts into
		  a bowl (coating the grinder parts with oil makes cleanup
		  easier).

		- squeeze out air from the glob of "dough" and shape into
		  rolls or round loaves.

		- grease a baking tray, sprinkle with corn meal, put rolls
		  or loaves on tray.


	Bake:

		- essene bread takes a long time to bake, 2.5 to 3 hours at
		250F, perhaps longer.  You must not bake it at high 
		tempuratures.  The bread will be moist on the inside
		so don't pick it up off the tray like a regular loaf or
		it will fall apart.  The bread is done with the bottom
		is resilient and the outside develops a crust -- but it will
		be moist and appear uncooked on the inside.  It should 
		solidify somewhat as it cools.

So the bread is made entirely of sprouted wheat, no yeast or salt added.  I've
heard some people grind dates in with the bread, but it turns out
sweet enough for me.


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: swapping cultures
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:55:39 CDT


I finally got a big bunch of zip locks into the mail.  I apologize 
to all those who I kept waiting for so long.

Also, regretably, I am out of the Bahrainian culture and hence
was not able to send that to many people who requested it.  I 
sent some other culture instead.  I hope those of you who requested
the Bahrainian culture are not too teribly disapointed.



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rhatch@sdsu.edu (Richard Hatch)
Subject: Small Sourdough Batches
Organization: San Diego State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:43:32 GMT

I'm hoping for some help.  There's interest in sourdough by bread machine, 
if my mail is any indication, and I've been only partly successful.  Rather 
than review what I've tried, I'd prefer to start by posing the question and 
see what suggestions some of you old hands have.

I need to make a batch of sourdough that is much smaller than the batches 
you describe.  If I were making regular bread, I'd be using about 1 1/3 c 
water and about 3 cups bread flour.  My sourdough has been coming out 
somewhat heavier than my regular yeast bread, and I like it that way, so 
maybe add another 1/2 to 1 cup of flour and enough water to make dough.

For a batch this small, given a cup of healthy refrigerated starter, what 
procedure would you use?

Suppose you have an additional constraint, which is that you want to get to 
dough in just 2 steps.  The first step involves reactivating the chilled 
starter and feeding it enough flour so it provides both today's leavening 
and tomorrow's starter.  The second involves using today's leavening sponge 
to mix the dough (in the machine) and start the machine cycle.  (Am I 
visualizing the most sensible steps here, and can this be done in two 
steps?)  How much flour and how much water should be added at each stage, 
and what, if anything, else should be done?

I'm trying to get the process more or less under control at its simplest 
first.  To me, it seems reasonable to think that plain bread made with white 
bread flour, water, salt, and leavening would be simplest.  If I can get 
that worked out, then presumably variations could be worked out later.

I'd sure be interested in any suggestions that more experienced hands might 
have in this quest.

Dick Hatch
San Diego State University
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rhatch@sdsu.edu (Richard Hatch)
Subject: Re: K-TEC
Summary: Kitchen Aid grain mill
Organization: San Diego State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:33:55 GMT

In article <83641@bcsaic.boeing.com> jtrott@bcsaic.boeing.com (James Trott) writes:

>does it compare with the K-Tec.  After the discussions here, we are
>getting interested in milling our own as well.

I have only heard about the K-Tec, but I have used the Kitchen Aid grain 
mill.  It is slow, far slower than people say the K-Tec is.  It also makes
the Kitchen Aid power unit run extremely hot--too hot to touch before you
get any appreciable amount of flour out of it.  In my opinion, the
Kitchen Aid is not a viable option, and I stopped using mine to save the
expensive mixer from melt-down.  

Some people say that stone-grinding is the way to go, and the Kitchen Aid
mill is a steel-to-steel grinder.  Some say that the steel grinders cause
deterioration of the nutritive content of the flour because they generate
more heat at the grinding surface.

At any rate, my Kitchen Aid mill sits idle while I use store-bought flour
at the moment.

Incidentally, a hand-cranked flour mill gives great exercise.  I'm seriously
considering a return to that type.  Any suggestions of good sources for a
hand-cranked stone mill?

rHatch
San Diego State University
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: grady@acs.ucalgary.ca (A. Brian Grady)
Subject: Re: First bread
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 02:32:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1a6tq6INN751@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill) writes:
>
>In a previous article, rip@sequent.com (Paul T Taylor) says:
>>
>>My only other disapointment was when my *^%@#& wooden spoon broke,
>>while I was *cleaning* it!  If they can put a man on the moon, why
>>can't they make a descent wooden spoon!  :-)
>
>They can, but you won't find them in the supermarket.  A local (Sunbright,
>Tennessee, to be specific) craftsperson (Karen Davis, to be specific) makes
>the most exquisite spoons and scoops.  She uses various hardwoods such as
>poplar, butternut, walnut, cherry, etc.  They're pretty enough to hang on
>the wall, but she prefers them to be used in the kitchen.  Don't know if
>she does mailorder, but she goes to most of the local craft shows (Rugby
>craft festival [summer], Museum of Appalachia Homecoming [early
October]).

>- Dave Sill 

Yes, after years of struggling it finally dawned on me that I
could design and carve myself an implement to make my
bread-making easier.  I carved a paddle out of walnut.  What
I hated about all wooden spoons is that the handles are so thin
than when I take a good grip, my fingernails (which are long
for guitar) cut into my palm.  The handle I made is good and
thick in the middle and tapers toward the top and the paddle
part.  Hard to describe, I guess.
If you don't want to go that route, I think that an effective
mixing tool could be made simply from a thick piece of hardwood
dowel, perhaps 3/4" or 1" thick (buy to fit your own hand).
Just sand or round off the ends and you're in business!
Brian Grady
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Confession time
From: Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:04:51 GMT
Organization: Actrix Networks


I've been making sourdough bread since April, using the Goldrush
starter.  I've been making it in a bread machine.  Sourdough culture
is a rare thing down under so I shared my culture with some locals and
passed on the recipes.
Now these people don't have bread machines.  One of them, Andy Bond,
keeps me regularly posted on his sourdough achievements.  Now I have
been making pretty respectable sourdough bread all this time, aided
and abetted by just a little bit of dried yeast because I don't really
like getting my hands dirty (and I have to justify the dollars I spent
on the bread machine).
Anyway, each time I get the culture out of the fridge and feed it nd
set it in the oven with the interior light on, it takes less and less
time to start jumping in the jar.  Sooooo, I took a leaf out of Andy's
book and bought a terracotta bread baking pan (like a loaf pan) and
decided to make some lazy sourdough.  I let the machine do the mixing
and kneading, but I didn't add any extra yeast.  Then I dumped the lot
on the bench, gave it a punch or two and set it in the terracotta pot
and left it to rise then baked it.
Wellll, almost as good as my machine bread.  But the thing that
interested me was that the dough rose pretty smartly ( say 75-90
minutes ) and certainly leapt skywards out of the pan while baking.
So, let's say the Goldrush starter is alive and well here in New Zealand.
And when David Adams sends the Russian culture (locally already known
as Rasputin's Revenge, even though we've not yet made acquaintance)
south, there is every prospect of a culture rampant :-)
Our local supermarket sells *sourdough* bread.  It's circular and
about 1 1/2 inches thick.  What shape do you all use?  Freeform,
french bread style, bake in a pan, what???  I remember eating
sourdough toast at some hotel SO and I stayed in in San Francisco and
that was obviously cut from regular style loaf.
Good eating :-)

-- 
| The floggings will continue until morale improves
| Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (Pat Churchill, Wellington, New Zealand)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: wd5j@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Re: Bunny battle scars
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:14:09 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

It's always unrealistic to answer vet questions without seeing
the culprit, but based on your description I'd say your rabbit's ear is
probably going to continue to heal.  I would suggest gently dabbing it with
peroxide twice a day until it looks "quiet" and no longer red at all.  Any
evidence of redness, swelling, heat or loss of activity or appetite, and I
would get her to a veterinarian.  Of course, it never hurts to get an exam
regardless (though I'm biased).

Darwin's vet
(a.k.a. Ilana Reisner)
From: time@coos.dartmouth.edu (Susan M. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: turtles
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:56:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Thanks in advance'
Susan(SMK@mac.dartmouth.edu)
From: cicarell@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Collen Cicarell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Limping kitty
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:27:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.

Hi everyone,

I have a question that I'm hoping you can help me with.  I have two cats that are both about 2 1/2 years old.  Recently, one started to limp slightly, just a 
little head bob with her left front foot.  I have poked and prodded as much as
I feel comfortable with, she doesn't seem to mind, and will lean into my hand
if I rub her shoulder.  I haven't taken her to see the V*E*T yet, since she
gets all freaked out and probably wouldn't walk there.  Besides, she still runs
around and plays and it doesn't really seem to bother her all that much.  

Still, I don't want her to hurt, so if anyone has any ideas before I do take her
in, I would be grateful to hear them.

Thanks,
Colleen Cicarelli
From: curtiss@master.CNA.TEK.COM (Curtis Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Re: Hedgehog care
Summary: spikes
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:58:09 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <Sep.28.17.27.08.1992.14993@math.rutgers.edu>, sanderso@math.rutgers.edu (Yasmine B. Sanderson) writes:
> 
> > They are not native to the U.S.  Check with you mother's 
> > neighbors to see if someone has lost a hedgehog.
> > 
> > Curtis Smith
> >    curtiss@master.cna.tek.com
> 
> Now I'm stumped. I thought that hedgehog was just another name for
> woodchuck. How can you tell the difference between the two?

In my area most *.chucks (we have woodchucks and rockchucks) are
marmots.  Marmots are burrowing rodents about the size of a large
cat.  I have seen people in different are call different animals
*.chucks so I am not sure what is the true woodchucks.

Hedgehogs have spikes.  They are not barbed and do not come off
like porkypine spikes.  They are carnivors, where chucks and
porkypines are herbavors.  Hedgehogs look like a ball of spines
and will roll up into a ball when frightened.  

Curtis Smit
   curtiss@master.cna.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: kathrynw%radian@natinst.com (Kathryn Whitworth)
Subject: Re: Change subject of loose kids to loose dogs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:42:08 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

(Daniel J. Clancy) writes:
> 
> > I also will say that I feel strongly that if you have a dog that has
> > ever had problems relating with other dogs, then you should keep him
> > on a lead at all times.  This includes dogs that insist on dominating other
> > dogs and might scare the owner even though they have never attacked another
> > dog.
> > 

Kim Williams then writes:
> But what about the dog that is friendly,  and runs up to the dog that is
> on the lead that has problems relating with other dogs? There can still be
> a problem.
> 

(I tried to get attributions straight, sorry if I messed up, folks)

I gotta agree with Kim.  My neutered-at-8-months male Cocker X, Ben, is a
dominant sort of dog.  When we walk him, he *will* lunge at other dogs,
and it doesn't matter at all if they are bigger.  Naturally, we keep him
leashed and are currently using a pinch collar (we can use fewer, lighter
corrections, and he pays a lot more attention) for greater control.

I really dislike great friendly overgrown puppies of any age lollopping
up to greet us, their owners 3+ meters away.  The chances are good nothing
will happen, but it could.  If I'm holding the leash, I can deal with it.
If my 9-year-old is holding the leash, and Ben decides the other dog is
a threat --  Well, I'd really rather not find out. 

Austin has a leash law.  Even if it did not, I wouldn't let Ben off the 
leash.  Since it does, I would appreciate others having the courtesy not
to inflict their great friendly pooches on me while I'm walking my dogs 
with my family.  Maybe I don't *want* to meet your dog.  Maybe I don't
know if your dog has his/her shots, and don't want to take the chance.
Don't I have any rights?

Before you flame:  I am talking about the untrained sort of pooch who minds
only when he feels like.  If your dog is under control without a leash, and
doesn't hurl himself upon us, *sure* that we gotta love him, then I have
no problems, and I'll smile at you as we go by.  

Don't try to tell me that I may not walk my dog legally and under control
so yours may run unrestrained.  I won't be impressed.

Kathryn Roth Whitworth