HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: CRJ(How do one subscribe?) & other things...
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:11:03 GMT
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Excerpts from christia: 15-Oct-92 RE: CRJ(How do one subscrib.. Steven
Klepzig@SSB1.SAFF (3229)

> "As an organ of the Christian Research Institute (CRI), CHRISTIA
> RESEARCH JOURNAL's primary commitment is to "contend earnestly for the
faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

Hmmm, sounds me they're commitment is the contend earnest for the faith
which is written in the Bible, not the faith delivered to the saints.
But that's another topic.

Excerpts from christia: 15-Oct-92 RE: CRJ(How do one subscrib.. Steven
Klepzig@SSB1.SAFF (3229)

> As far as I've seen and heard, CRI & CRJ don't spare any group they feel
> has made a mistake or is wrong, be it Protestant, Catholic, Jewish,
> cultic, occultic, whatever.  To claim otherwise (IMO) is to reveal one's
> own bias. I've had my toes stepped on a few times myself.

Well, OK, if they're consistent, then that's less of a problem.
Unfortunately, if you choose to criticize anyone's doctrine, you end up
taking a particular very specific theological stand that may alienate
some orthodox readers. There are valid difference of opinion concerning
interpretation of Scripture, and it's not always good to take sides and
call other interpretations wrong (at least not in the Protestant world
;-))

Excerpts from christia: 15-Oct-92 RE: CRJ(How do one subscrib.. Steven
Klepzig@SSB1.SAFF (3229)

> It's curious - I wonder if the Catholic journal that was critical of the
> CRJ said anything about the feature article by Fr. Pacwa (sp) a couple
> of issues later or the appearances on The Bible Answer Man program by
> him.

I didn't see it. Don't think so.  What was it about?  Was it a defense
of the Catholic Church?

BTW how many issues per year?

Eric
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:40:19 -0500
From:         MARCI HENDRIX <HENDRIX@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Churches in Pittsburgh

Hey Lon, glad to answer your question, I'm from Pittsburgh now living
in Memphis.  The church I attended while living in Pittsburgh is
Pittsburgh Baptist Church and it is definately evangelical.  They would
be happy to provide you with transportation.  The church is practically
downtown and is bus accessible.  It's on Pioneer Boulevard which is off
.... can't think of the name, but its a main street.  They have two
services, 8 am and 10:45 am with Bible Study inbetween.  I can give you
some names to contact if you're interested, my in-laws attend this
church and there are several people you could call for a ride.  Marci
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:00:36 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      forgiveness and terminology

Tom Brewer refers to the belief that baptism confers spiritual
benefits, and says, "Not So! Only God confers spiritual benefits."

John says, "There is a sign in the lobby that forbids smoking."

Tom replies, "Not so! It is the manager who forbids smoking in the
lobby, by means of the sign."

John says, "Vitamin C cures scurvy."

Tom replies, "Not so! God cures scurvy, normally by means of Vitamin
C."

John says, "Baptism cleanses from original sin."

Tom says, "Not so! Only God cleanses from sin."

John says, "Quite right. God cleanses from original sin, normally by
means of baptism."

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
From: ljh655 <ljh655@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Trip to Romania...
Date: 13 Oct 1992 08:38:27 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
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I just want to shortly express my support for Tom Ford
travelling to Romania. From my friends in Czecho-Slovakia
involved in the Slovak Mission Movement working with
missions in the remote areas in Romania I know that these
areas are extremely poor and not easily accessible,
especially in winter. We used to send some supplies in
trucks, but they had to be loaded into 4-wheel drives in
the last bigger towns, and then continued. It is almost
unbelievable that there are such areas in Europe, not far
from all those rich nations arguing about any fractional
change of petrol prizes, and trying hard to justify their
spendings... 
There was a big problem we met back in 1990 with the
relationship between the Eastern Orthodox Church and other
Churches (mainly the Roman Catholic Church), and I didn't
get any information since then on this... so maybe Tom
would be kind to share his experiences when he returns.
Surely we follow him in our prayers.
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:06:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ways to evangelize

In a message of Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:42:42 EDT
Received on Fri, 16 Oct 92 13:46 N
Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> wrote:

> I think that we are basically in agreement, Wolfgang, but with one difference.
> You are talking about you personally.  I was talking about ways that we as
> a group of Christians should evangelize.  The original question had to do with
> whether witnessing to strangers should be a focus, and I assumed that meant
> a focus for us as a group of Christians.

I surely was talking about me personally, but since I am in a position
of responsibility in our church this was not my only concern.

> People aren't
> even interchangeable.  When we talk about evangelizing people, we talk about
> evangelizing Sue, and Dave, and Mary.  Perhaps the only way to reach Sue is
> by catching her on the street, and so no matter what our resources, someone
> (not necessarily you) must go out there and get her.  Dave however, might
> only be responsive to his friends, and so if you are Dave's friend, your
> resources would best be served in trying to reach him.

I think that you could be right. Maybe I am looking for the one
universal way which doesn't exist. But then the problem is: what can we
as a church do to make this possible or to further it. Or put in other
terms: how should the structure (and the offers of activities) of our
church be to give maximum availability by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for your answer!

Wolfgang <><

> BTW:  "Scardie cat" (pronounced scare-dee cat) is a saying we have for
> someone who is afraid to do something, like a cat is easily spooked.  A
> similar term is "fraidy cat" (pronounced fray-dee cat).

You Americans are funny folks. But a word for Yvette: if this is the
* only *  reason you won't witness on the street, you better get
yourself going. The "fearful" will not enter the kingdom...
From: iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM (Ian Williams)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Christian Music
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:07:24 GMT
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              "HADDAWAY@UMBC.BITNET" at Oct 14, 92 11:24 am

>
>I know that this is not a deep theological question but...
>
>Does anyone enjoy Christian music.  If so, who do you listen to.
>Does anyone have more envolvement then just a record collection,
>i.e. the Christian music "biz"?
>
>-Todd
>

Todd!

What is christian music?? Is it a song with the word 'Jesus' in it??

A silly question but an intersting one from someone who does not believe
in the concept of sacred and secular music..


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:37:47 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Little Christina

Please pray for the little 2 year old that I requested prayers for before.
She had uteran cancer  and they tried to just remove the tumor.  Well the
cancer is spreading and now the poor little thing is on Chemo and needs our
prayers.


THank you all for praying for my mom.  The heart specialist said this month her
heart sounds better.  Praise God!

Love, Bernice
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:30:45 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: evolution versus creationism

Marci,

My point of view on this is that God had three sure direct acctions on the
process of Creation:

1.- Creation of Time-Space-Mater-Energy  (One thing with 4 names !)
2.- Creation of Life
3.- Creation of the Human Soul.

All the process between them, I guess, is well proven by science, it has been
done trought evolution.

I am not a fundamentalist, so I find no problem in saying that the (beautyful
with no paralell) poem of Gen 1 & 2 is a figure, although, I don't afirm it
as a certian fact, it just can be historicaly true or just moraly true.

If I get up all mornings and get a shave, then I cook my breakfast, heat
up the car and go to my school, I am very inteligent. But If I invent a
machine that wakes me up, toast me some bread, and turns on the car, I am much
more smart.

If God created things Directly or Indirectly, who cares, our spirit is His
creation, that matters.

Shalom,
Memo.
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From: ICH529@DJUKFA11.BITNET (Matthias Radke)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: WOW! ??
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:20:55 GMT
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich

In article <9210081445.AA04067@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx>, A16905@ITESO.BITNET says:
>
>wonderful machine tricks me sometimes and I so close to all of you...Thank
>God for Electronics (wher they're used nice like here) and most because
>we are close, as one body actually, in His Son.
>
An Amen to that. However, somtimes I am longing for a real voice and
a real smile rather than a similey. :-)
                                              Matthias
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:44:58 -0700
From:         "(MARK DRAKE)" <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: New nature vs. two natures.

>If our bodies were as redeemed as our spirits (a.k.a., soul, mind,image of
>God, etc), then we could have no point of attack by the enemy.
>In heaven, God will give us our redeemed glorified bodies and we have NO
>ability to sin nor would we have any desire to.

>Jesse Carnes


Hmm.  Sounds like you are saying that we have two nature - one of the spirit,
and one of the flesh.  Sounds a lot like Paul, and a lot like what that
passage in Romans 7 says if you take it at face value without exegeting
it like crazy. (as opposed to considering it in context)

Looking at chapter 8, It doesn't say that we don't have sinful natures.  It
says that we are not to be controled by sinful natures-

8:9-10  You however are controled not by the sinful nature but by the spirit,
if the spirit of God lives in you....But if christ is in you, your body
is is dead becouse of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of
righteousness.

	I have a feeling that there may be one of those semantic
problems in this discussion, so please keep that in mind in the
future.



Mark
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:00:29 -0400
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Comments on the Apostles and Jesus' Teachings

 Michael M.,

You do not believe that the Apostles presented the message of Jesus
without flaw.

Yet how can we know what Jesus really taught if we cannot believe what
we have received about him?  If Jesus was God, or at least if Jesus was
the Son of God and sent by God at the very least, do you not think he
would have a vested interest in ensuring that the doctrines he taught
were accurately preserved throughout the years?

Christ Himself promised to lead the church into all truth (John 16:13).
He promised, also, to ensure that the Apostles (and the later church)
would not forget what he taught, through the Holy Spirit, and he
promised to teach them all things.  Matthew 16:19 says that the gates of
Hell will not prevail against the church.  Do you really think that
Christ's teachings were irretreivably lost after His ascension into
heaven?  Should you not rather believe that Christ would ensure that His
teachings -- as important as they were -- would not be forgotten by the
Apostles and not be corrupted?

If they were, how are you to know what Christ really taught?  Whom can
you trust to determine what is truth -- yourself? Should you not rather
rely on Scripture to reveal to you what Jesus taught?  The Jews believed
in the inspiration of Scripture for the 4,000 years before Jesus -- why
should then we not as Christians also trust Scripture? Did not Jesus
teach that Scripture was inspired?

Eric
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:18:00 EDT
From:         "Joseph_I.Scully" <21010JIS@MSU.BITNET>

set christia mail
From: BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Brenda Curry-White)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Masons
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:59:15 GMT
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Center for Urban and Economic Research
Phone: 502-588-6626

Not to start this debate again, but...

My husband is a 32nd degree Mason.  He occasionally reads this list via my
e-mail account, so I will show him your note.

There was some extensive discussion concerning Masons on the list not too long
ago.  It became quite heated.  If you check the logs from around May to July
of this year you should find it.

There is also a digest devoted to the discussion of Freemasonry.  It is
moderated, but open to all, including non-Masons.  To subscribe, contact
Peter Trei:  ptrei@asgard.bbn.com.  Peter Trei is the list coordinator.

Brenda
From: ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: At Dan's request...an excerpt
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:27:41 GMT
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Mike Million,

Sounds to me that you've joined a heretical Gnostic sect.  Such ideas
were refuted in the first two centuries of the Church.  Why re-embrace
them?

Eric
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:43:48 CST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Is my salvation the only thing that matters?
              92 3:07 am

>
>I think you meant "nothing is MORE important than..."!
>Well, yes and no. Suppose that somehow you could procure the salvation
>of hundreds of other people, at the cost of your own. (A ludicrous idea,
>I agree; but imagine it for purposes of discussion.) Are you quite sure
>that in such circumstances you should choose your own salvation rather
>than that of those hundreds of people? Would your answer be the same if
>it were physical lives at stake?
>
Hmm I would not give up my salvation at the cost of hundreds of other
peoples, no way... I would however gladly give up my phsyical life
for several people I know...

My salvation is more important to me than anything else. even other peoples
salvation.. Is this shocking?? I dont think so. God created us to be with
him, and this is our highest 'need' (maslo style)...

>
>--
>Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
>gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
>




---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:58:23 EDT
From:         Michael Hollinger <MCHOLL@TSRV1.TS.WM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Absolute Certainty about Authority

> Dear Darren ;
>
> One question for you :
>
> "How do you objectively know for SURE that You exist?"
>
> Outside of some objective criterion, how can you know for CERTAIN
> that you are notunreal?
>
>
> Jesse Carnes
>


I think therefore I yam (cogito ergo spud...)
From: LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Loren Mendelsohn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Randall Terry's brochure
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:40:56 GMT
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Since my wife and I have been active in the local rescue movement, we were
contacted a couple of days ago with the request to picket at the presidential
debates in our area (Michigan State University).  We were informed that the
signs would read: "Christian Beware, etc."  While neither of us plan on
voting for Clinton, we could not support such strong language.  To me,
making such a statement is incredibly arrogant, as it professes to know
the mind of God on something which He has not revealed.  Who knows?
maybe we'll get Clinton because we deserve him.  After all, the USA is
hardly without guilt.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
From: iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM (Ian Williams)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Hate Mail?
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:04:34 GMT
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              Oct 14, 92 9:31 am

>So far as I know, this is still America, isn't it?
>

Gee, not as far as know!!!!!! (not unless my name is Phillip and the Holy
Spirit has been translocating again!)


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:48:24 EDT
From:         "(Tim King)" <timk@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Anger

Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> writes:

> There has been some discussion as to whether anger is a sin and therefore
> whether God can be angry, and what constitutes righteous anger.

Excellent post, IMO.

James Dobson, if memory serves, in his book _ Emotions, Can You Trust Them
_ also suggests that strong emotions, like anger, can be "redirected"
towards righteous activities and motives.  (I'm sure he's not the only one
who's ever mentioned it, but that was the first I'd ever read of the
idea.)  For example, if my friend does something that makes me really mad,
I have a choice:  I can get back at him, or I can make the situation right.

In any case, I don't think we have to be afraid of strong emotions... only
of needlessly offending or hurting someone else.  (Do I _ really _ have to
provide scripture for this? :-)

What does the bible have to say on the issue?  How does God handle His
anger?  How does it accomplish a righteous goal?

-TimK
--
Tim King              <>  |  "It is an old maxim of mine that when you have
24 Myrtle Street       |  |  excluded the impossible, whatever remains,
Dedham, MA 02026     < |  |  however improbable, must be the truth."
timk@world.std.com    \|  |           (Sherlock Holmes, The Beryl Coronet)
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:43:42 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      WOW! ??

I must have missed something...I've received two WOWs and I
don't know what JoEllen and Memo are WOWing about.  I'm
getting the impression someone (Ian?) is expecting a child.

Please fill me in...and thanks!

Carol Nemec
ya67@ferris
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:06:18 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Yom Kippur
              8 Oct 1992 20:09:48 EST from <KSTE@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>

Kerry,

Yes, the concept of the Book of Life is extremely important to rabbinical
Judaism.  There is, however, very little mention of it in any detail in the
OT, and no mention of it in connection with the Days of Awe.  (see appendix
for list of all OT verses which might possibly have to do with the idea of
a Book of Life).  Now, neither my concordance nor my Bible software includes
the deuterocanonical books, and there may some discussion of these concepts
in them.  Possibly one of the Catholic or Orthodox listmembers would be
willing to check into these books.  As stated in my first sentence, the Book
of Life is quite important in rabbinical Judaism, but none of the references
which I have available at home really discuss it.  If you would like to
pursue the matter, I would suggest starting with looking up the concept in
the _Encyclopedia Judaica_, which ought to be available in your library.

Hope this helps...

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn

***********************  APPENDIX  *************************

OT scriptures with possible connection with the Book of Life:


Exod. 32:32   But now, if thou wilt forgive their sin --and if
not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast
written."

Exod. 32:33   But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned
against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Job 13:26   For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest
me inherit the iniquities of my youth.

Ps. 40:7   Then I said, "Lo, I come; in the roll of the book it is
written of me;

Ps. 56:8   Thou hast kept count of my tossings; put thou my tears
in thy bottle! Are they not in thy book?

Ps. 69:28   Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let
them not be enrolled among the righteous.

Ps. 87:6   The LORD records as he registers the peoples, "This one
was born there." [Selah]

Ps. 139:16   Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance; in thy book
were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

Ps. 149:9   to execute on them the judgment written! This is glory
for all his faithful ones. Praise the LORD!

Isa. 4:3   And he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem
will be called holy, every one who has been recorded for life in
Jerusalem,