HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:58:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.032223.6075@eye.com> jesse@eye.com (Jesse Lackey) writes:
>
>You know, something I've *always* wanted to do is come up alongside a
>bicyclist and give them a good hard shove and send them flying off the road
>into whatever.  I wouldn't mind doing joggers either, except they can dodge
>too well.  These people have to learn that roads are for vehicles, not people.
>
You know what Jesse? I invite you to do that to me.
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:33:29 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct12.202407.15883@cabezon.uucp>, jimcar@cabezon.uucp
(James Carrasquer) wrote:

[I wrote]
> >I repeat: I signal when it seems necessary, which means I make damn sure I
> >know who is around me in all directions.
> 
> I think the issue is that your *intent* to "make damn sure" may not always
> equal your *ability* to know who/what is around you.  (Unless, of course,
> you're not human :-)  I think that this is more applicable when driving a car.

Yes, it's much more applicable to cars.  On a bike it is possible to see in
all directions much better than from the inside of a car.  Especially if
you wear a helmet mirror and use it all the time, as I do.

> So signal anyway, your "wasted effort" may result in safer streets.

To signal while riding a bike means taking one hand off the handlebars, and
disturbing the balance of the bike -- as well as making yourself much more
vulnerable to losing control if you hit a pothole or something.  This is
worrisome if you're riding in close contact with cars and trucks, so I
don't do it unless there's someone I need to get the message to.  It's not
like driving a car, where you just flick the turn-signal lever.  I think
that in many situations I get safer streets by looking all around (which
also unbalances thing a bit) than by sticking my arm out.  Of course there
are also plenty of situations that do call for a signal, and that's when I
do signal.

The whole point is that safety comes from knowing what the safest thing is,
and doing it -- not from mindlessly making hand signals for every single
move or coming to a dead stop at every stop sign.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Wildlife & commuting
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:15:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> ... an increasing number of large dead flattened rats ... This year is
> the first time I've noticed them.  Wonder if it means anything.  Were they
> always there ... or has our rat population gotten a lot larger lately?

They're always around, but they're much more visible this year than
usual.  It's because it's an election year.
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: HOV abolished!
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:01 GMT

In article <26971@castle.ed.ac.uk>, cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
> You _averaged_ 41mph thru a _city_? If that's typical of US cars in US
> cities I can understand the enthusiam for car driving. Here in the UK
> you're lucky to be able to average 15mph thru a city in the rush hour.

Yep, and many would consider that slow.  Outside rush hour, I was able to
average 75 mph (of course, that really reads 55, must be a typo 8-))
through downtown LA.  That's why we have freeways.  41 in rush hour is
quite an accomplishment, however.  In both LA and DC, you would be lucky
to make 25.  If it gets down to 15, maybe people will realize that all this
driving is a bad idea.  I can average better than 15 for over an hour on bike.

But don't worry about high speeds on US freeways.  It ain't like German
autobahns.  There are many lanes and they're very wide (14 feet).  The
curves are very wide, and the road surfaces flat and level.  The design
speed is in excess of 90 mph (and that is for the 5th percentile driver
in the 5th percentile car).  No skill is required to drive at high speeds
on US freeways - just watch for smokey.

Now if they would only provide facilities for bikes at a similar level,
folks could time trial to work.  Heck, slap a fairing on the bike, disk
wheels, aero helmet and slick clothes, and crank 40 mph into work.  What
a fantasy!


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: jesse@eye.com (Jesse Lackey)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 07:22:22 GMT
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

>In article <1992Oct6.154708.28091@col.hp.com>, arnie@col (Arnie Berger) writes:
>
>>The first few time that I took my bike with me to Palo Alto on business trips
>>I had wonderful rides on Skyline Blvd. Then I made the mistake of riding there
>>on a Sunday afternoon. I lasted about 5 miles. By the fifth mile my legs were
>>shaking so badly I had to get off. The reason? These crazy guys on these Ninja
>>motorcycles blazing by at 70 or 80 mph. 
>

You know, something I've *always* wanted to do is come up alongside a
bicyclist and give them a good hard shove and send them flying off the road
into whatever.  I wouldn't mind doing joggers either, except they can dodge
too well.  These people have to learn that roads are for vehicles, not people.

-- 
Jesse Lackey; internet: jesse@eye.com   Please Note:  I DON'T speak for 3D/Eye!
3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY  14850   voice: (607) 257-1381
    Relationships, the final frontier
From: warton@ssd.intel.com (Peter Warton)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:47:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.032223.6075@eye.com> jesse@eye.com (Jesse Lackey) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct6.154708.28091@col.hp.com>, arnie@col (Arnie Berger) writes:
>>
>>>The first few time that I took my bike with me to Palo Alto on business trips
>>>I had wonderful rides on Skyline Blvd. Then I made the mistake of riding there
>>>on a Sunday afternoon. I lasted about 5 miles. By the fifth mile my legs were
>>>shaking so badly I had to get off. The reason? These crazy guys on these Ninja
>>>motorcycles blazing by at 70 or 80 mph. 
>>
>
>You know, something I've *always* wanted to do is come up alongside a
>bicyclist and give them a good hard shove and send them flying off the road
>into whatever.  I wouldn't mind doing joggers either, except they can dodge
>too well.  These people have to learn that roads are for vehicles, not people.
>
>-- 
>Jesse Lackey; internet: jesse@eye.com   Please Note:  I DON'T speak for 3D/Eye!
>3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY  14850   voice: (607) 257-1381
>    Relationships, the final frontier


Obviously you're not a person when you're on the road...
I can understand why relatioships are the final frontier for you.
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Peter Warton  (the h was dropped    | Against my better judgement (not to
over 800 years ago) 		    | mention the advice of my friends) I
warton@ssd.intel.com		    | speak for myself.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:17:25 GMT

In <Bw0s9H.LK9@cup.hp.com> hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris Steinbroner) writes:

>i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
>200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
>and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
>two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.

>do bicyclists consider this kind of warning okay?

A light tap on the horn from a respectable distance is fine
by me.  I'm not out there to obstruct traffic intentionally,
and if I know you're coming I'll give as much clearance as I
safely can.  *Usually* I will see you in my mirror or hear
your wind/engine noise before you get near me, but without
telepathy you'll never know whether I've already spotted
you or not.  

Now, if you honk and I *don't* move right, it probably means
the right side of the lane is unsafe, perhaps strewn with
debris or partly blocked by a police motorcycle with radar.
If it's safe for you to pass in the oncoming lane, I'll wave
you forward.  If it's a radar trap or there's oncoming
traffic, I'll caution you to slow down a bit.  Feel free to
disregard my waving as long as you leave enough clearance
that you won't take me with you if there's oncoming traffic.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: douglas@netcom.com (Douglas Mason)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Organization: Approach Software Corp.  Redwood City, CA  94063
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.180019.14603@morrow.stanford.edu> karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:

>And by the motorcyclists who ride too fast on bikes that
>are too loud, and who have no clue how their actions are
>perceived by others.

I can see that the speeding is a problem, but why on earth is a bike
being loud a problem?  Seems like the noise at least alerts a biker that
something is coming.  If they were completely silent, the biker would be
all over the road and something would come out of nowhere at an unreasonable
speed.

-DM

-- 
Douglas Mason                                    douglas@netcom.COM
Network administration / software development    douglas@netcom.UUCP
Approach Software Corporation                    +1 415.306.7889

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:585 rec.motorcycles:36009 ba.motorcycles:591
From: root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:29:03 GMT
Organization: Why do you suspect that?

In article <1992Oct13.114509.22426@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
>In article <Bw0s9H.LK9@cup.hp.com>, hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris Steinbroner)
>writes:
>|> gregory adkins (akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>|> : While riding my bicycle, anything from people swerving to a short
>|> honk
>|> : while I'm not paying attention can startle me and potentially
>|> cause
>|> : an accident
>|> 
>|> i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
>|> 200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
>|> and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
>|> two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.
>|> 
>|> do bicyclists consider this kind of warning okay?
>|> 
>|> -- hesh
>
>That would depend upon the look on your face and whether
>your going for the 10 point score of the Unaware bike or
>20 points for the Fleeing bike, or 30 points if you have to
>chase him up on the grass. :-)

If you are going for the 30 point'er to chase him onto the grass,
a little known sub-rule states that you get a 5 point bonus if you
get him to jump so high he actually 'hops' the bike sideways 
onto the grass ...

A note here - driving a cage and locking up all four wheels 
disqualifies you from further points!

Putting it in neutral, cutting the engine, and then hitting those
helmet mounted air-horns right behind him is the recommended way.

As an aside, I have first hand practice so to speak ... back in the
50's when I was a teenager I lived in France and had a 50cc Mobylette
with friction wheel on the flywheel driven rotary vane compressor
that powered one large airhorn hung under each saddlebag.  This was
a relatively quiet setup in the first place, and back then I was 
suffering from a bad case of acute young age.  You don't have to have
too active an imagination to picture the acts of sadism that took
place ...

At least today, I can't claim acute young age as an excuse!


>##########################################################
>Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
>Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  


Charlie Smith   charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org  csmith@dsac.dla.mil  whois ces10
MOA# 52888, RA# 15633, DoD# 0709, AMA# 574722, Buckey Beemers 411, BK Ohio V
BMW K1100-LT, R69S, R27 and other even less worthwhile [ 2 | 3 ] wheel stuff

            {  Friends don't let friends buy air horns  }
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu (gregory adkins)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:58:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.195648.23814@unlinfo.unl.edu> aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan) writes:

>>I use my leg(s) to point out hazards to riders behind me.  I dunno, maybe
>>it's a strange thing to do.  It's hard to see hand signals of somebody
>>in race-prone position on a sportbike.  8^)
>
>But still, remember that it will freak out a bicyclist, so it might be a
>good idea to allow more distance between your outstretched leg and the
>bicycle, lest the bicyclist panic and veer.
>
While on my motorcycle I always try to remember that I face
some of the same hazards, because of my size and two-wheels nature,
that I do one my bicycle.  So I always slow down significantly
and give plenty of space when passing bicyclists.  

Riding a bicycle is very intimidating on heavily traveled roads.  
Compounded by the lack of size, and, a problem that motorcyclists
don't have, they can't get out of harms way quickly.  

While riding my bicycle, anything from people swerving to a short honk
while I'm not paying attention can startle me and potentially cause
an accident

As fellow two-wheelers on cage dominated roads, motorcyclists should
be try to be extra courteous to bicyclists.  At least this will
be one non-motorcyclist talking about what a nuisance "those damn
motorcycles" are.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Akins                            |  It was not my strength that
akins@cis.ohio-state.edu              |  wanted nursing, it was my 
				      |  imagination that wanted
				      |  soothing. - Joseph Conrad
                                      




Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:600 rec.motorcycles:36348 ba.motorcycles:612
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:27:03 GMT
Reply-To: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

In article <1992Oct14.152903.3741@elektro.cmhnet.org>,
root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct13.114509.22426@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
|> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
|> >In article <Bw0s9H.LK9@cup.hp.com>, hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris
|> Steinbroner)
|> >writes:
|> >|> gregory adkins (akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
|> >|>  [Stuff deleted]
|> >|> i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
|> >|> 200 or 300 feet away. 
|> >|> 
|> >|> -- hesh
|> >
|> >That would depend upon the look on your face and whether
|> >your going for the 10 point score of the Unaware bike or
|> >20 points for the Fleeing bike, or 30 points if you have to
|> >chase him up on the grass. :-)
|> 
|> If you are going for the 30 point'er to chase him onto the grass,
|> a little known sub-rule states that you get a 5 point bonus if you
|> get him to jump so high he actually 'hops' the bike sideways 
|> onto the grass ...
|> 
|> A note here - driving a cage and locking up all four wheels 
|> disqualifies you from further points!
|> 
|> Putting it in neutral, cutting the engine, and then hitting those
|> helmet mounted air-horns right behind him is the recommended way.
|> 
|> As an aside, I have first hand practice so to speak ... back in the
|> 50's when I was a teenager I lived in France and had a 50cc
|> Mobylette
|> with friction wheel on the flywheel driven rotary vane compressor
|> that powered one large airhorn hung under each saddlebag. 
    [above sick stuff NOT deleted}
Those were the days, I had a 66 Mustang GT HP289 w/4sp
rag top and used to LOVE coasting down a 1/2 mile hill
into Dover NJ with the engine off, then turning on the
key at the bottom, well I loved it 3 times anyway, then
I found out how much the chrome tip resonators cost along
with a 63 chevelles grill that the resonators went into
and through. If he hadnt a dropped the car 4 inches I only 
woulda dented his bupmper.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:33:21 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Oct14.222444.7522@elektro.cmhnet.org> root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) writes:
>Hey Paul ...
>
>The couple of times I've ridden bicycles through the merry hills of Olde
>England, I've had a problem with the mirror on the *left* side of my
>helmet!  Nobody in a UK bike shop had *right* side helmet mirrors.
>HOWCUM ??

Don't know, but I don't think I've ever seen a helmet mirror on sale
here in the shops, though they have shown up from time to time in
mail-order catalogs.  If I had to guess, I'd suspect it reflected the
fact that helmets haven't yet caught on over here to the extent they
have in the States, and that now that helmets ARE becoming more
popular, helmet mirrors will show up.  Another possibility, since a lot
of those sort of things are actually imported, is that we don't have
right hand mirrors because they're not made in the States.

'Bar' mirrors are fairly popular.  I use a Mirri-cle (or something like
that), which mounts on the brake housing at the front, where the cable
leaves the mechanism.  (Yeah, I don't have aero brakes, and do have
drop bars.)

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:32:42 GMT

In article <23553@optima.cs.arizona.edu> sham@cs.arizona.edu
(Shamim Zvonko Mohamed) writes:

>Besides, can you imagine how silly a UJM would sound with a loud exhaust?

No need to imagine.  Send me a tape, and I'll show you.

The worst thing about a loud exhaust system is listening to
a cop's lecture about what gear you were in when he spotted
you half a block away and how much you slowed down when you
noticed him ...
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@pangea.stanford.edu
From: philw@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Philip W White)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Oregon D.O.T. Bikeway meeting in Portland
Keywords: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:30:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: vice.10516
Distribution: or
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

From Oct. 8 Oregonian:

"How to make Portland's streets safer for cycling is the subject of
a free meeting open to the public:

 7 PM  October 22
  Room C,  Portland Building
  1120 S.W. 5th Ave
   Portland

Michael Ronkin of Oregon Dept. of Transportation will discuss a
successful experience Corvallis had in improbing its streets for cycling,
along w/ recent state and national policies relating to bicycles."

      Phil White   Tektronix, Beaverton, OR
USENET:  philip.w.white@tek.COM
 US Mail: Mail Stop 59-432, P.O. Box 500, Beaverton OR 97077-0001
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:510 rec.motorcycles:35316
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:02:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Oct7.203921.16224@netcom.com> douglas@netcom.com (Douglas Mason) writes:
>I can see that the speeding is a problem, but why on earth is a bike
>being loud a problem?  Seems like the noise at least alerts a biker that
>something is coming.  If they were completely silent, the biker would be
>all over the road and something would come out of nowhere at an unreasonable
>speed.

First: no vehicle is completely silent. Modern cars actually are well enough
soundproofed that tyre noise is much more significant than engine noise. If a
cyclist is weaving all over the road, it's because s/he is a clueless moron.

This reminds me of an incident from a couple of days ago. Till now I had
reserved judgement on "Loud pipes save lives". I was riding along (bicycle) a
few days ago, and I heard a moto behind me, so I turned to look - it was a
V-twin, but not an HD. And it had one of the loudest exhausts I've heard in
quite some time. And - it wasn't till it had passed me that I heard the
exhaust.

Now usually the bonehead behaviour that happens in front of you is of more
interest than behind. So I don't see how the fact that everyone behind me can
hear my pipes is going to stop the bozo in the driveway up ahead from pulling
out in front of me. I'd rather rely on my brains (and on soon-to-be-obtained
Fiamms) than on my exhaust note.

Besides, can you imagine how silly a UJM would sound with a loud exhaust?

-s
--
Henri Desgrange, 1902: "Variable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles rather than by the
artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on, fellows. Let's say that
the test was a fine demonstration---for our grandparents! As for me, give me a
fixed gear!"

  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Monday, 12 Oct 1992 10:31:05 PST
From: <TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Big Round of Applause

I was on my Schwinn single speed, going as fast as I could pedal, cadance maybe
130rpm...then I snapped the chain, which got caught and locked the rear tire,
flew over the handle bars with no helmet or gloves holding my head up
protecting my Maui Jim shades and got a load of road-rash and a standing
ovation for the crowd in front of Hoover Tower.
                                         What a day,
                                             Tom