From: x1sdup@emav118.rtp.dg.com (Stephen Dupre)
Subject: Re: [US] Accord Quality
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 16:35:09 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro, MA

Previous writers comments
|> > 
|> >   89 Integra LS - every peice of plastic body part was either deformed  
|> or
|> >                   improperly set. Several factory defects.
|> >   92 Prelude    - it was a rental with 250! miles.  The door molding on  
|> both
|> >                   sides fell off.  The hood was noticable offset from 
|> >                   one side to the other.  The black dashboard appeared
|> >                   warped. AC didn't work.
|> >   92 Legend     - engine block rear seals needed replacing at 8000 miles  
|> !
|> >                   A $1000 warranty job.
|> > 
|> > I have many friends who own AMERICAN made Hondas who have experienced  
|> next
|> > to no problems with factory defects.  The Integra above was my vehicle,
|> > it was nothing but trouble.  Several colleuges purchased 89 Integras and 
|> > none of them said they would buy another.  I can say I used to be a  
|> Honda
|> > fan, but based on my experiences I would never buy another Japanese made
|> > Honda/Acura product.
|> > 
|> > dan
|> 
|> My next door neighbors bought two brand new Honda Civics in 84 and they  
|> were both junked in 87--so much for Honda Quality. It convinced me that  
|> everything from Japan isn't so reliable.
|> 
|> Shawn

***************************************************************************
I generally believe the problems aren't due to where
they're built but in the lousy engineering of parts of the
car.  This isn't Japan bashing (I'm Japanese myself) but
I think Honda knows about a lot of these problems but keeps
them quiet. My experience below:

I owned an '86 Accord Automatic for 3 months.  I had 
transmission problems.  Basically, the design has been
described as a standard transmission without a clutch.
For those of you who own these year cars, you know the
gear clash you hear going from reverse to park isn't your
imagination.  They designed the transmission and the 
gearsets poorly causing 1st and OD gear failures at 45-70k
miles.  Most original buyers aren't aware of the problem, 
but 2nd owners get caught.  The gearsets are over $700 and
the total repair cost is in the neighborhood of $1900.  
Honda covers it's tracks well so there are no blots on its
"quality mystique". Examples:

1.  Bad timing belts on early Hondas.  (not strong enough
    for bigger valvetrain).  By calling this a periodic
    maintenance item, they got out of a public recall of 
    tens of thousands of cars.

2.  4-speed overdrive transmissions.  Generally, most failed
    after the 36k mile warrantee was up and the 2nd owners
    had an even tougher time getting their transmissions
    fixed.  (don't let any dealer fool you.  There is a service
    bulletin referencing the gear problem.  They even designed
    harded gearsets to lessen the problems - but not totally
    eliminate this engineering-related problem.)  If you think
    this is baloney, go down to your local AAMCO and they'll 
    tell you they do 2 or 3 a week and there's a 3 videotape
    set used for training just on this one transmission.

Most dealers will blame the customer saying they "rocked" the
car from 1st to reverse causing the damage.  This WILL contribute
to the damage (gears still turning, etc), but the real problem was
in the design of the transmission and the missing synchronizing 
hardware.  I got the transmission in my car rebuilt for free only
after I sent various letters to the Center for Auto Safety, The
Consumer Protection Agency and American Honda.  Later, I got my
money back (after the problem persisted) and bought a Toyota.  Honda
redesigned the transmissions in 88 or 89 solving the problem, I
guess.