From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD . . .)
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:27:18 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <1992Aug21.085509.10333@lth.se>, bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:
> In article <23480@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj@alice.att.com, curmudgeon and clueless white boy) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug18.135323.29297@progress.com> leary@progress.COM (James Leary) writes:
[...]
> >I particularly had to laugh when some poor dweeb claimed that
> 
> We are getting personal here I see.
> 
> >"alt" was part of USENET.  It was created specifically because
> >it was NOT part of USENET.  Learn the facts before you flame
> >away, guy.
> 
> I think I agree with you on principles, but do climb off your
> high horse, jj.

Below you will note a number of referenece to the alt hierarchy
in various news.announce.newuser periodic postings.  
Perhaps the most interesting is the reference to the netnews
software available in alt.sources.

What is clear to me is that some people hold a pristine
vision of netnews that excludes alt, pay for read, and
CD ROMS.  It also seems that these people would rather 
deny reality and verbally attack those who try slapping
reality in their face.

The alt (and other hierarchies) may not be part of the usenet
you grew to love and cherish, but, as has been said, usenet
is a constantly growing community.  


To quote Spaf (as someone else has):

!Archive-name: alt-hierarchies/part1
!Original-author: hoptoad!gnu (John Gilmore) and spaf@purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
!Last-change: 19 July 1992 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
!
!
!Introduction
!------------
!The Usenet software allows the support and transport of hierarchies of
!newsgroups not part of the "traditional" Usenet through use of the
!distribution mechanism. These hierarchies of groups are available to
!sites wishing to support them and finding a feed.  In general, these
!groups are not carried by the entire network because of their volume,
!restricted spheres of interest, or a different set of administrative
!rules and concerns.

Did everybody get that? alt is not part of the "traditional" usenet -
which is not to say the alt is not part of usenet -- its just the 
part the some people don't want to have around.
                                               

The remainder is various excperpts in which alt hierarchies are referenced
in context with usenet (this is for doubters -- quit when you have enough,
as there is nothing else after it.)

Qoting Spaf agian in:

!Archive-name: usenet-primer/part1
!Original-author: chuq@apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
!Last-change: 5 May 1992 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
!
!
!              A Primer on How to Work With the USENET Community
!                             Chuq Von Rospach 
!
!
!
!  *** You now have access to Usenet, a network of thousands of
!  computers.  Other documents or your system administrator will provide
!  detailed technical documentation.  This message describes the Usenet
!  culture and customs that have developed over time.  All new users should
!  read this message to find out how Usenet works. ***
!  *** (Old users could read it, too, to refresh their memories.)  ***
!
!  USENET is a large collection of computers that share data with each
!  other.  It is the people on these computers that make USENET worth
!  the effort to read and maintain, and for USENET to function properly
!  those people must be able to interact in productive ways.  This
!  document is intended as a guide to using the net in ways that will
!  be pleasant and productive for everyone.
!
![...]
!		    Be Careful What You Say About Others
!
!  Please remember -- you read netnews; so do as many as 2,500,000 other
!  people.  This group quite possibly includes your boss, your friend's
!  boss, your girl friend's brother's best friend and one of your
!  father's beer buddies.  Information posted on the net can come back
!  to haunt you or the person you are talking about.
!
!  Think twice before you post personal information about yourself or
!  others.  This applies especially strongly to groups like soc.singles
!  and alt.sex but even postings in groups like talk.politics.misc have
!  included information about the personal life of third parties that
!  could get them into serious trouble if it got into the wrong hands.


And quoting him again in:

!Archive-name: what-is-usenet/part1
!Original from: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
!Last-change: 19 July 1992 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
!
!
!The first thing to understand about Usenet is that it is widely
!misunderstood.  Every day on Usenet, the "blind men and the elephant"
!phenomenon is evident, in spades.  In my opinion, more flame wars
!arise because of a lack of understanding of the nature of Usenet than
!from any other source.  And consider that such flame wars arise, of
!necessity, among people who are on Usenet.  Imagine, then, how poorly
!understood Usenet must be by those outside!
!
[...]
!WHAT USENET IS
!--------------
!Usenet is the set of people who exchange articles tagged with one or
!more universally-recognized labels, called "newsgroups" (or "groups"
!for short).
!
!(Note that the term "newsgroup" is correct, while "area," "base,"
!"board," "bboard," "conference," "round table," "SIG," etc.  are
!incorrect.  If you want to be understood, be accurate.)
!
!DIVERSITY
!---------
!If the above definition of Usenet sounds vague, that's because it is.
!
!It is almost impossible to generalize over all Usenet sites in any
!non-trivial way.  Usenet encompasses government agencies, large
!universities, high schools, businesses of all sizes, home computers of
!all descriptions, etc, etc.
!
!(In response to the above paragraphs, it has been written that there
!is nothing vague about a network that carries megabytes of traffic per
!day.  I agree.  But at the fringes of Usenet, traffic is not so heavy.
!In the shadowy world of news-mail gateways and mailing lists, the line
!between Usenet and not-Usenet becomes very hard to draw.)
!
[...]
!PERIODIC POSTINGS
!-----------------
!To help hold Usenet together, various articles (including this one)
!are periodically posted in newsgroups in the "news" hierarchy.  These
!articles are provided as a public service by various volunteers.
!They are few but valuable.  Learn them well.
!
!Among the periodic postings are lists of active newsgroups, both
!"standard" (for lack of a better term) and "alternative."  These
!lists, maintained by Gene Spafford, reflect his personal view of
!Usenet, and as such are not "official" in any sense of the word.
!However, if you're looking for a description of subjects discussed on
!Usenet, or if you're starting up a new Usenet site, Gene's lists are
!an eminently reasonable place to start.
!
[...]
!IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY...
!---------------------
!Property rights being what they are, there is no higher authority on
!Usenet than the people who own the machines on which Usenet traffic is
!carried.  If the owner of the machine you use says, "We will not carry
!alt.sex on this machine," and you are not happy with that order, you
!have no Usenet recourse.  What can we outsiders do, after all?
!

And again in:

!Archive-name: usenet-faq/part1
!Original-author: jerry@eagle.UUCP (Jerry Schwarz)
!Last-change: 19 Jul 1992 by mvac23!thomas@udel.edu (Thomas Lapp)
!
!
!		      Frequently Submitted Items
!
!This document discusses some questions and topics that occur
!repeatedly on USENET.  They frequently are submitted by new users, and
!result in many followups, sometimes swamping groups for weeks. The
!purpose of this note is to head off these annoying events by answering
!some questions and warning about the inevitable consequence of asking
!others.  If you don't like these answers, let spaf@cs.purdue.edu know.
!
[...]
!12.  Volatile topics, e.g., soc.women: What do you think about abortion?
!
!     Although abortion might appear to be an appropriate topic for
!     soc.women, more heat than light is generated when it is brought
!     up.  All abortion-related discussion should take place in the
!     newsgroup talk.abortion.  If your site administrators have chosen
!     not to receive this group, you should respect this and not post
!     articles about abortion at all.
!
!     This principle applies to other topics: religious upbringing of
!     children should be restricted to talk.religion.misc and kept out
!     of misc.kids.  Similarly, rape discussions should be kept to
!     talk.rape and not in soc.singles, alt.sex and/or soc.women,
!     Zionism discussions should be kept to talk.politics.mideast and
!     not in soc.culture.jewish; likewise, discussions of Jesus or of
!     religions other than Judaism should go to newsgroups for the
!     appropriate religion or to talk.religion.misc or alt.messianic.
!     Any attempts to proselytize any religious view belongs in
!     talk.religion.misc, if it belongs on the net at all.
!     Discussions on the merits of Affirmative Action and racial quotas
!     belong in talk.politics or alt.discrimination, not in
!     soc.culture.african.american.  Discussions about evolution vs.
!     creationism should be confined to the talk.origins group.
!
!     USENET newsgroups are named for mostly historical reasons, and
!     are not intended to be fully general discussion groups for
!     everything about the named topic.  Please accept this and post
!     articles in their appropriate forums.
!
[...]
!39.  Is there a public access Unix system near me?  How can I get
!     access to system for news and mail?
!
!     Phil Eschallier posts a list of open access Unix sites (he calls
!     them "Nixpub" sites) on a regular basis to the following
!     newsgroups: comp.misc and alt.bbs.   Check his posting
!     for information on sites you can contact.
!
!     Furthermore, a list of open access sites that are not necessarily
!     Unix sites is posted regularly in alt.bbs.lists; see the postings
!     entitled "NetPub listing" for more information.
!

And again in:

!Archive-name: usenet-software/part1
!Original from: spaf@purdue (Gene Spafford)
!Last-change: 19 July 1992 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
!
!
!Currently, Usenet readers interact with the news using a number of
!software packages and programs.  This article mentions the important
!ones and a little of their history, gives pointers where you can look
!for more information and ends with some special notes about "foreign"
!and "obsolete" software.  At the very end is a list of sites from which
!current versions of the Usenet software may be obtained.
!
[...]
!yet another newsreader is the "tin" reader.  It operates with threads,
!has different article organization methods, and is full-screen
!oriented.  tin works on a local news spool or over an NNTP connection.
!It has been posted to alt.sources, and further information is
!available from becker@med-in.uni-sb.de (Dieter Becker). The current
!release of tin is 1.3 PL3.  Tin is based more on the Notes and tass
!systems than "rn".  There is an extensive list of features, including
!interfaces to batch modes and auto unpacking mechanisms.
!
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
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