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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:49:38 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2810
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2810

                           Tuesday, July 21, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 655

                               Os2 and speech
                          Re: turbo braille version
                    Re: Turbo Braille Version 3 is ready
                             Re: "blind loyalty"
                               "Blind Loyalty"
                            Re: vendor favoritism
                          Re: Windows access maybe
                        Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship?? You
                              Stigma attached?
                                 Tee Shirts


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: Os2 and speech
From: Kimberly.Bobrow@f488.n141.z1.fidonet.org (Kimberly Bobrow)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:141/488 - Alice's Restaurant, Branford CT


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to David Tanner <07-10-92>, Greg Pike writes:

 GP> David Tanner writes:
 GP>
 GP>  DT> 1992.  And, there are rumors that Screen Reader may not
 GP>  DT> be able to support version 2.0.  Don't ask where I
 GP>  DT> heard that last part from because I am not at liberty
 GP>  DT> to say.  SUffice it to say it was an IBM employee.
 GP>
 GP> Utter nonsense!  Bull poop!  Screen Reader for OS/2 2.0 has been in the
 GP> hands
 GP> of the beta testers since long before OS/2 2.0 was
 GP> I suggest you get the facts before you start rumors.  Where
 GP> do you get the facts?  Simple.  Call me!  Call me
 GP> personally!  Call me COLLECT!  Yes, I WILL PAY FOR THE
 GP> CALL!  If I don't know the answer, I can certainly find the
 GP> person who does.  My number is 914-945-4137, and I'm in the
 GP> office normally from around 8:30 in the morning until
 GP> around 7:00 at night.  ANYONE who wants information on the

Greg, it's people like you that keep me so animated about OS/2 and
IBM (well, that and the fact that OS/2 is such a great product
anyway!)  If I say any more, we'll just be spouting mutual
admiration and such - so I'll leave it at that.

For everyone else - I have to say that OS/2 is an outstanding
product, and if it has now been made accessible to people with
low/no vision by this Screen Reader, I can highly recommend the
OS/2 platform (I have no experience with the Screen Reader - but
with a phone number you can call collect at IBM - it's gotta be
pretty good!)  As I mentioned before, IBM included one-finger
accessibility right in the base package, which I think is pretty
cool.  I think IBM is actively interested in making their software
accessible - if there are questions, I'd take Greg up on his offer
for information!

--Kimberly
___
 * PMQWK 1.00b5 * I think I lost my mind... Please watch where you step.
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!488!Kimberly.Bobrow
Internet: Kimberly.Bobrow@f488.n141.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: turbo braille version
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 TW> does it support the blazzie braille printer? ICE CUBES ARE A
 TW> HOT ITEM IN HELL. === Via Silver Xpress V3.00B09

Yes, we have many happy Braille Blazer users. The Turbo Braille defaults
to a 27 line 40 cell page, but it is easy to change the defaults to 27
by 34 or 25 by 28 or whatever.
Many men smoke, but Few Men Chew.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Turbo Braille Version 3 is ready
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DM> Have you added user-installable rule tables, similar to the
 DM> Global

 DM> feature of Hot Dots, and also found in Duxbury?

No, Daveed, we haven't had to add that feature -- we have had it from
day one. Turbo Braille has a separate file containing the translation
rules, which is read by Turbo Braille at execution time. The file is an
ASCII file and a number of users have added their own rules.
By the way, a so-called global search and replace is a far cry from a
translation rule. The translation rule must specify what to replace with
what, but must also specify under what conditions the substitution is
permissable, and what other consequences follow, such as changing the
internal state of the translation process. Turbo Braille and Duxbury are
both patterned after the historical "DOTSYS" translators developed at
the MITRE Corporation in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Our
translation rules closely resemble those of Duxbury, and neither Turbo
Braille nor Duxbury look anything like the Raised Dots strategy,
whether it appears in BRLEDIT, BEX, or its PC descendant, MEGADOTS.

I sent you a braille sample yesterday with further information. ... Take
care. ... Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: "blind loyalty"
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Tom!  Yes, I'm glad that this exposee of the NFB appeared in a
mainstream publication.  It's about time sighted as well as blind folks
started learning the truth about how this organization has been
operating.  Such practices in almost any other organization would be
shocking and scandalous.  Jernigan has gotten away with it for so long
because mainstream journalists are uncomfortable about investigating
and reporting possibly critical conclusions about a blindness
organization.  Hats off to Amy Cuningham for her courage and
determination to seek and tell the truth!  Despite all the cries of
foul play by NFB "blind loyalists" in this echo, I observe that almost
nothing has been specified that contradicts Cuningham's analysis.  Of
course, some matters may be subjectively interpreted in different ways,
but it is a journalist's job to make some subjective interpretations
after making reasonable efforts to accumulate and check all relevant
facts.  Amy Cuningham did that.  She visited the National Center for
the Blind (NFB headquarters) personally.  Interviewed Jernigan on more
than one occasion.  In fact, she ran a draft of the article by him to
check for and eliminate inaccuracies before writing the draft which
went to press.  She was a responsible, independent journalist who
deserves credit for covering what many of her peers are afraid to do
with depth and honesty..

I believe a process of reform is underway in the organized blind
movement.  Whether it likes it or not, the NFB leadership will be
brought into a democratic era.  I think the blindness community is
losing patience for the  abuses on the free thought and civil
rights of our brothers and sisters.  If I seem passionate about
this, it is for good reason.  We have seen and experienced the NFB
administration first hand, and I intend to inform others so that
they can be aware and stand in solidarity against those who seem
most concerned with the exercise of power.

Regards,

Jamal

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui
Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: "Blind Loyalty"
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Mike!  I am impressed with the thought and articulation you express
in this echo.  I mean that sincerely.  It is ironic that the the NFB
administration you so fervently defend is likely to be the very one
that turns on you at some point in the future because you thought too
much for yourself and developed some following because of your
persuasiveness.  NFB history is replete with such examples.  Of course,
you will not believe it could happen to you until suddenly it does.  I
never expected it would to me, having been a dedicated member and
representative at some level for ten years.  You may think that your
steadfast defense of the administration will be earning you political
capital that will protect you in times of disagreement with the
leadership.  This would probably be the case with most organizations.
With this administration, however, you will be treated with cold
indifference as if all your blood, sweet, and tears for the movement
meant nothing because you slipped in your loyalty and can no longer be
trusted.  Consider it, my friend.

By the way, why don't you show us how free thinking you really are and
tell us about some specific significant issues with which you disagree
with Jernigan.

Regards,

Jamal

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui
Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: vendor favoritism
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 TW>you probably read my story
 TW> about the purchase of the photo cell device to read the telephone  lights.
 TW> that is so typical.  I have a seventy dollar piece of junk laying in my
 TW> desk drawer that a twenty five dollar device is much better suited to the
 TW> job.

Tandy, where did you find such a device for twenty-five dollars?  I
was looking for such a device a couple of years ago, and I could
not find one, and had to get someone to get me one from England,
and I don't remember the cost, but it was not that cheap.  While I
don't need one now, I would like to know for the future.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Windows access maybe
From: mattioli@took.enet.dec.com (John Mattioli)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <23130@handicap.news>, bz920@cleveland.freenet.edu
(Dick Banks) writes...
>
>I have seen your posts many times on the Handicap Digest, including
>this one.  Is this a clone of the Digest or what?
>

Funny you should ask...  I just returned from the ACB convention.
While at the convention many people I don't know told me that they
read my posts on xyz bbs or such-and-such echo.  I suspect my posts
here go more places then I could ever imagine.  We don't call it
"ethernet" for nothing I guess :-).

I have often wondered exactly what happens to my messages when they
leave my system.  I send them (via a news reader) out into the
world.  That's about all I know.  Willie has a chance to review
what I send, so I'd imagine that they're routed to him (via mail
perhaps?).  After that, the only thing I know is that there is a
universal hatred for my headers.  Sorry people, I don't put them
there and have no idea how they get there or what they look like.

>
>Knowing in your mind about visual access is quite different from
>working with it.  At least I found it so.
>

Interesting statement, but one that I tend to agree with now that I
think about it.  I've really wanted a chance to play with GUI
access technology, but haven't yet found someone willing to let me
do so for an extended period of time.  I played with screen
reader/2 for about 15 minutes at the ACB convention, and found it
fairly confusing because it isn't necessarily geometricly correct.
For example, I used the right arrow to move across the screen and
it read all the icons just fine.  Then I used the down arrow and
used the left arrow expecting to hear the second line of icons.
Instead I heard the second line intersperced with first line
icons.  Very confusing, but it works.  I don't have a mac, so I
can't really play with InTouch or OutSpoken.  I've spoken with two
people at Syntha-Voice and expressed great interest in Windows
Bridge.  Personally, I feel I'm best qualified to evaluate this
software because I've got a pc with windows and have used windows
with an optacon before.  It reamins to be seen if Syntha-Voice is
willing to play ball.

>
>Your right John, beeping direction, quite frankly, is a joke.  Whoever
>designed that idea doesn't understand the needs of the blind or
>visually impaired.
>

TIME OUT!  That's not what I said at all!  What I said (or more
properly what I meant) is that The purpose of the beeping isn't so
much to tell youwhich way you're moving the mouse as it is to let
you know where you are.  I don't think it's a joke at all.  If you
can associate certain tones with specific locations on the screen
it could be a great help.  If you're tone deaf, it's completely
useless.  In any case, it's a seemingly simple idea that might help
some people so it's worth doing.  Maybe I'll actually write a
little program that does this just for the fun of it.  Nothing
efficient or useable by Joe Public, just an exercise in windows
programming for the novice.

>
>I do not mean that outSPOKEN should be cloned by programmers.  I do
>believe that much could be learned from working with outSPOKEN because
>it was designed TO WORK with GUI right from the start.
>

In Phoenix, my presentation emphasized that the time is NOW for
blind people to start gathering knowledge about how windows works.
I don't care if that's done with the mac, the pc, X-windows,
Microsoft, or OS/2.  I just think it's time for people to become
educated.  In my presentation, and in my messages on the net, I
frequently talk about MS-Windows.  This is because it's what I know
best.  I'm sure that Mac and OS/2 are fine systems, I'm just less
familiar with them.  If someone wants to lend (give?) me hardware
and software to play with on the other platforms, I'll be happy to
do so.



------

----------
                                 John Mattioli
                           (Put witty repartee here)

(DEC E-NET)	TOOK::MATTIOLI
(UUCP)		{decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!took.enet.dec.com!MATTIOLI
(ARPA)		MATTIOLI@TOOK.enet.dec.com




------



Subject: Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship?? You
From: mattioli@took.enet.dec.com (John Mattioli)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <23024@handicap.news>, Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(Mike Freeman) writes...
>
>All this asside, has anyone ever noticed that no one ever sees articles
>or messages on here blasting ACB or spreading scherulous falsehoods
>about, say, Durward McDaniel or Oral Miller?  It's worth pondering.
>

Indeed!  I don't know if this claim is true or not, but I can
assure you that Oral Miller is not MY hero or anything close to
it!  I think Gran Mac had no more business breaking a mike then NFB
had entering a meeting they weren't invited to.  I know virtually
nothing about Durward McDaniel, but I doubt he's perfect either!

The thing that infuriates me the most, when reading either the
Monitor or the Forum, is how both contain subtle (and sometimes not
so subtle) attacks on the opposing organization.  Oral Miller's
column is, perhaps, the worst offender on the ACB side, but Ken
Jernicag is certainly no better.  In fact in his recent article on
Grant Mac's trial, the regular narator of the Monitor was not used
to read this article, Ken himself did the deed.  This demonstrates,
to my way of thinking, the kind of importance that Ken attaches to
making ACB look bad.  Aside from convention speech exerpts, I
believe that Ken's voice is the only one I ever hear on the
Monitor.  Does Oral really have the time to bash NFB?  Does Ken
really have the time to bash ACB?  Is the world really so great for
blind people that these two have time for attacking each other and
each other's organization?  I think not.

I've affiliated myself with ACB because I think more like they do
then like NFB does.  I KNOW that there are serious differences
between myself and the standard "party line."  I have no problem
saying publicly what I think of any policy or person in ACB.  I
also have no fear of receiving as much as a telephone call
repremanding me for my view (not to mention expultion because of my
view).



------

----------
                                 John Mattioli
                           (Put witty repartee here)

(DEC E-NET)	TOOK::MATTIOLI
(UUCP)		{decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!took.enet.dec.com!MATTIOLI
(ARPA)		MATTIOLI@TOOK.enet.dec.com




------



Subject: Stigma attached?
From: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.0 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

This is probably one of the most bizarre inquiries I've made in this
echo.
Of course, as most of you know, I'm majoring in law at Carleton
University here in Ottawa.
Now we've discussed jailhouse blinks as a matter of interest, and
I'm currently at the point of deciding what my thesis should consist
of.

Now, here's the rub.
I have just finished reading an interesting article by Elizabeth Maules,
a feminist, who argues that women are treated gentler in the criminal
justice system as a result of lack of understanding of the female
persona and the patriarchal nature of the agents of the justice system.

Could the same be true for blind persons as well?
I would suspect that it would hold true, however, I've done some searches
through the literature and have been unable to find alot of material
that deals with blindness and the justice system.

If anyone has read any material that may even come remotely close
to this vein, I would appreciate either a quick note or something
via netmail.

For me this is an interesting concept.
Tnx.
Jeff

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!266.0!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Tee Shirts
From: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.0 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Recently there has been some discussion about blind persons telling
the time, that is, braille watches versus talking watches.

Now some might not find blind humour all that funny, but personally,
I feel that if I can't laugh at myself, then I just can't laugh.
Besides, some of the best blind humour comes from blind persons.

So here's another suggestion for the T shirt logo:

"Smart as a braille sun dial"

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!266.0!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2810 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU