From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: New Product opinions
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:44:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.134513.25869@lonex.rl.af.mil> kopackm@lonex.rl.af.mil (Michael A. Kopack) writes:
>Ok, so the guys at big C= are supposedly unveiling all their new toys next
>week at the WOC, right? Well, based on the number of rumors found in this
>group over the last couple of weeks/months, I've come up with a couple of
>good questions and opinions.
>
>1) If C= had planned on releasing KS3.0 this month, why did they even bother
>making 2.1? You'd think that they'd pour the additional manpower into getting
>3.0 all set up and running. You mean to tell me that they took the time to
>do 2.1 just for the A600 because it has some freaky non-standard port on
>it?

More likely they have a very stable 2.1 for general distribution and will
"beta-test" 3.0 on the AA machines in much the same manner as 2.0 on the
A3000.  As for the A600 having a "freaky non-standard port", are you
referring to the PCMIA slot?  If so, then they have supported it since
2.05 and it is probably the most standard of any Amiga slots.

>2) Where the heck does the A600 fit in the big picture of things? I mean,
>if C= plans on introducing a whole new group of AA chipset machines with
>Gee-Wiz features that require KS3.0, and for a reasonable price, why bother
>with the A600? Crap, if they price the new models low enough, everyone with
>A500's will be dumping them pretty cheep to get the bucks for the new 
>machines.

It may be that they intend to reduce the price of the A600 and introduce
a mid-range AA model in the future.  An A600 at $200 might be enough to
convince parents to buy their children a real computer instead of toys
like the Genesis, SNES, and other such rubbish.  It is supposed to be
cheaper to manufacture than the A500, and those are available for under
$300 now.

>Since the A500 will always have more support for the A600 (which will be
>outpriced by used A500's) where does that leave the A600?

That remains to be seen.  As a LCD, the A600 is much better than the
A500 ever was and it may be a bigger hit than most expect.  It is really
funny that so many people are pissed off about the A600.  Did anyone
really expect an 030 equipped AA machine for under $500?

>3) when is C= gonna get the picture and stop producing machines with OLD
>processors. I mean, the 68000 was really good back in '85 and '86, but the
>thing just doesn't hack it today. would it cost C= that much more to put
>a 68020 and 32 bit RAM on a new A500 revision motherboard. I don't think
>you'll lose that much in software compatability. Plus, why not include he
>1 Meg agnus at least in the new revision??? I don't see A2000 owners having
>a problem!!!

The 486 and 040 might be considered old by some people.  The 68000 is still
a good microprocessor and the only Intel chip that might be superior is
the 386/486.  An 020 and 32bit RAM might indeed be possible on an A500, but
that wouldn't help in the graphics or sound.  As an A3000 owner I can tell
you that the typical programs being run on most A500s (games) would break
on such a machine as you describe.  It is not C='s fault that so many of
the game authors are ignorant fools.

On a side note, the CD-I machines have truly spectacular video capabilities,
yet they also manage with an 8MHz 68000.  That it takes a 486 with an SVGA
board to match a 68000 Amiga from 1985 is just further proof that the Intel 
chips and the PC architecture really do suck.

>4) How about giving the IBM compatable slots a break. If I wanted an IBM,
>I'd go buy one. I'm not saying that we should dump all the slots, but people
>have been saying that there are gonna be 7 or 8 PC slots in the A4000. I
>don't think most PC's come with that many slots!! 

Uh, I think that might come from something I said a couple of days ago...

>5) Why is it that we can't get a mini or mid sized tower model??? It's not
>like there aren't any cases on the market!!

So buy a case and put your motherboard in it.  It could be done, but you'll
find it to be more trouble than it's worth.  If Amigas had an ISA bus and
just a keyboard connector on the back it might be easier, but hopefully
that won't ever be the case.

>6) Would it be so difficult to put high density drives in all amiga's? I
>mean, crap, the MS-Dos world has had 1.44 Meg floppies for a few years now,
>and by the time we get 1.76 (maybe) they'll be getting ready for 2.88Megs
>!!! Why not just skip 1.76 and go to 2.88 also???

For that matter, why bother with 2.88M?  The floptical drives would be
much nicer and C= already has some sort of agreement with the manufacturers.

>7) Everyone keeps complaining that the AA chip machines should be backwards
>compatable with the older machines. Do I hear the old 640K MS-Dos nemesis
>lurking?? Lets face it, if we really want to get things upgraded to the way
>they should have been done, we have to start considering dropping the old
>chipset. Or, at least phasing it out by say '96.......

The ECS is a much better base than the PC architecture could ever hope to
be.  The beauty of the AA chipset and the Amiga OS is that it will be 
possible for responsible developers to write code which works properly
on ECS, AA, and whatever is to come.  Sure, there will be the children
who insist on going straight to the hardware, but that sort of thing is
to be expected.

>8) VM should be included and I'll be downright pissed if it's not in 3.0!!

Why?  My 10M A3000 is much more productive without VM than the 486-50 with
16M an ~50M VM under Winslows 3.1 at work.

>9) The moron who came up with IDE for the A4000 should be shot! That's great,
>I've got a 105 Meg SCSI for my A500, but if I want to upgrade to the A4000
>I either have to purchase a $300 card or sell my drive and get a $300 IDE
>drive. Hey joe-dork engineer, I'd say that 80% of the Amiga owners that have
>HD's have SCSI, and since C= sales are usually to previous C= owners......

Hey, I'm the guy who came up with IDE for the A4000!  You try to shoot me
and you'll have a bunch of crazed rednecks in pickup trucks coming after
you with shotguns!  :-)

A Zorro III SCSI card with the DMAC chip might end up being less than you
would think...

>10) They must be joking with the price of the A3000T! Crap, I think I'll just
>go buy an 040 accelerator for my A500! I can do one hell of an upgrade hack
>for $6000. Anybody interested??? I'll take your money!!!!

Can you also add the Zorro III slots, the 32bit DMA SCSI, the 2M Chip RAM
with 32bit access from the CPU, the flicker-fixer, etc.?  I'm not trying
to defend the insane price that C= set, but I really doubt that you could
upgrade an A500 to the A3000T level.

>Well, I've got some more grumbling and such, but I'm gonna wait until C=
>lets us in next week. Could somebody who goes to the show please give us
>a really detailed report about all the happenings and new products?? I'd
>especailly like a review of Emplant, the A4000 and any new machines they
>introduce.

I'm sure that we'll here about it as soon as anyone else.  Why is everyone
so excited about Emplant?  It is vaporware and given the track record of
the developer, I wouldn't hold my breath.

>--Mike Kopack

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy