HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "phil.physics.orst.edu" <xia@PHIL.PHYSICS.ORST.EDU>
Subject:      Action at OSU
Reply-To: "phil.physics.orst.edu" <xia@PHIL.PHYSICS.ORST.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:28:02 PDT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

To support IFCSS lobbying for the Immigration Bill the Chinese
Students and Scholars Association at Oregon State University
sent $1000 to this account

	CCSA/Immigration Fund, CCSA, P.O. Box 65307
	Washington DC 20035-5307

on July 23, 1992(yesterday).

This CSSA@OSU is continuing raising money and doing what it can
do to support this lobbying effort.  The association also asks
CSS at brother universities and colleges to act together for our
future.

After we sent out the money, we noticed the new IFCSS HQ has set
up another account which is

	IFCSS CSS-Protection Account, Independent
	Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
	(IFCSS), 733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440,
        Washington, DC 20005

to receive the donation.  We hope that the two accounts will be
well unified and persons who contribute to this crucial lobbying
will work together for the same goal.  This effort will continue
to be supported by our CSSA members.


The Chinese Students and Scholars Association at
Oregon State University
From: junzhang@acpub.duke.edu (Huilai Zhang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: test
Keywords: test
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:20:30 GMT

This is a test.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zhu@cs.UAlberta.CA (Zhu Yuchen)
Subject: Re: Raymond Luh
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:06:20 GMT

UFDZ%UFPINE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu writes:

>Dear Mr. raymond Luh, you still have the obligation to let all netters to
>know your background!     Dawei Zhou, Florida
Not really, you know who he is just by reading his comments on
Zhao's posting. 

For those who hold different opinions, we call them friends.
For those who hold hostile attitudes, we call them enemies.
==
zyc, Edmonton

--

===
Zhu Yuchen, Edmonton
From: zuofeng@POLLUX.WUSTL.EDU (Zuofeng Li)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:  :)
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:43:04 GMT
Reply-To: Zuofeng Li <zuofeng@POLLUX.WUSTL.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Mr. Kai Hwang wrote,

>Dear Eddie Cheng:
>
>     Sorry, nobody can enlight you because you are too dumb.
>
>K.H.

For one thing, I don't understand why you're picking on someone
who hasn't posted in China-Net since the time CNMC proposed
rules for China-Net.

Secondly, I suppose that calling a fellow netter "too dumb" can
be an elegant expression of one's sense of humor, especially if
one uses a half-smiley face as the subject title. But if I were
in Eddie's shoes I'd find it very insulting.

Thirdly, please be considerate to the others when you just want
to vent your personal feelings. Such aims can be easily and better
served in private e_mail, especially considering that you after all
are the secretary of the 4th IFCSS Council.

Zuofeng Li
Washington University School of Medicine
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ%UFPINE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Zhao Haiqing, Continue good work!
Reply-To: UFDZ%UFPINE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:11:00 EDT

Zhao haiqing, continue the good work, post the lobby strategy on China net
everyday. Stop the argueing with gengxiao, concetrate to the lobby. Please
find my personal check $200 sent to CSSA/immigration Fund. thanks. dawei Zhou
From: U37956@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Looking for a person
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:56:08 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Hi, dear netnews readers:

I am looking for a person whose name is Jin-Feng (Joseph) Zhou.
He originally came from Beijing, was at Purdue University, majoring
Chemistry in 1987. If you have any information regarding this person,
please e-mail me. Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Liu Yuhe <liu@ATMOS.UMD.EDU>
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: Liu Yuhe <liu@ATMOS.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:02:23 -0400
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dear Mr. D. Zhou:

     Your massive posters strongly dirturbed our netters. You should
have read the HQ release that nominated Dr. Zhao Haiqing as the Chair of
Committee on Student Affairs which is the IFCSS working body on lobby
activites. You should advise Dr. Zhao to stop blaming Mr. Geng Xiao on
the net and inner fighting. As I know, the HQ didn't do anything wrong
to make chaos for lobby.

     In fact, the only thing between the HQ and Dr. Zhao is the lobby
accounts. IFCSS should have its own account for the lobby. Other
accounts can exist too. But IFCSS will not take any responsibility for
the accounts which are not montored by IFCSS. Don't you think it's
reasonable and blameless? For any donations, the donaters can make
decision to which account they like to send their money.

     The best way for us is to understand both sides.

Yuhe Liu
U. of Maryland
~s To understand
~r ~/.id
From: "NY." <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      ?
Reply-To: "NY." <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:11:13 EST
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

    I don't understand one thing:
        Why are there so many noises surfacing when someone steps
forward and likes to serve for the CSS? Why is it so quiet when noone
likes to do anything?
    Is it true that some people just don't feel comfortable to see the
CSS have a better(good ) future?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Weimin Shen <SHEN@JUNO.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      regard IMM
Reply-To: Weimin Shen <SHEN@JUNO.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:58:00 CST
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

This is a forwarded message for Mr. Wang Chong.

W. Shen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From:	IN%"CWG@zeus.vetsci.Wisc.EDU" 23-JUL-1992 15:43:34.97
Subj:	regard IMM

Hi, guys, I called some congressmen, I got an new information: we
should call a congressmen whoes name was not on the list somehow:
John Carmia? 202-225-5126. We should not forget to call this person,
other congressman office refers this congressman to be called.

Chong Wang
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: lix@BUCRSB.BU.EDU
Subject:      Re: to professor Lix
Reply-To: lix@BUCRSB.BU.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:14:37 -0400
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Thanks for the subject line, though I prefer to be called Old Lix,
title makes no sense on this net, I believe.

>Perhaps everyone knows that you somehow dislike Zhao Haiqing
>or his policy, and you have made that point clear enough. All

Then sorry for misunderstanding. I have never met ZHQ before and
no idea about his personality. I support his lobbying for the
immigration bill. But I don't support his lobbying for CMFN last
year, and I am against using immigration bill as a bargain to CSS
for supporting CMFN bill. Hope this time I made it clear enough.

>I feel uneasy is that the style of your post, which seems to be
>satirical but actually only makes people snigger over when they
>realize that this comes from a PROFESSOR at Boston university.

Old or young, every human should be equal, right?

>If you criticize the contents of the announcement of IFCSS, that's
>perfectly fine. But does it matter who wrote the announcement if

Thanks. I hope IFCSS either pass my amendment or make clear to ZHQ:
Even you are working for green card, thanks, but you can't call
yourself the president of IFCSS. Just wonder how valueable being green
is, do you want to pay whatever expense for it?

>It is obviously that Zhao made a mistake and probably used old signature
>file to send out the email. He may feel a little bit embarrassed himself.

If so, that is fine. But I still see the possibility that ZHQ is using
green card lobby to force CSS to accept something they don't like.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      IFCSS HQ Special Report: IFCSS To Provide Long Distance Phone
              Service
Reply-To: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 01:09:31 -0400
Comments: To: china-news-post@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              cnd-us@library.uta.edu, osu.chinese@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu,
              soc-culture-china@ucbvax.berkeley.edu,
              soc-rights-human@ucbvax.berkeley.edu

**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters Special Report No. 4007     July 21, 1992
         IFCSS To Provide Long-Distance Phone Service
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu


          IFCSS To Provid Long-Distance Phone Service
          ===========================================


Dear IFCSS Members:

     Providing services to Chinese students and scholars in
the United States has been one of the tasks of IFCSS. We have
successfully established the insurance program. Now, we are
pleased to introduce the IFCSS-Sprint long distance program
to IFCSS members. We hope local CSS organizations and activists
will join us to promote this program.

     The IFCSS-Sprint program was written exclusively for
IFCSS members and will provide many benefits available only
for IFCSS members.

     Through the sales to IFCSS members, IFCSS will get a
certain amount of commission which would help IFCSS achieve
financial independence and provide other kinds of service to
the CSS communities.

     Part of the commission will be alloted to local CSS
organizations.

     Therefore, the IFCSS-Sprint long distance service
will benefit IFCSS, the local CSS organizations and the
general CSS community.

     More details about the program will be found in the
next release from this office.

     For program brochures, please call 1-800-669-8585.
or fax to Al Lenio at 913-624-5640.

     Your help will be highly appreciated.

     Thank you for your attention.


***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
From: HWANGK%VTCC1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      :-(
Reply-To: HWANGK%VTCC1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:58:00 EDT

Sorry, Eddie Cheng. I just wanted to make a joke.

K.H.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "NY." <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      president
Reply-To: "NY." <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:44:40 EST
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

   As I was told by the IFCSS HQ, the new president and ... will take office
officially on Aug.1,1992. So I guess it is appropriate for Mr.Zhao to sign
as the President.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Raymond C. Luh" <luh@NAS.NASA.GOV>
Subject:      Re: Please post
Reply-To: "Raymond C. Luh" <luh@NAS.NASA.GOV>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:32:41 -0700
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Dear netters,
>if any pro-democracy organization (not individuals)
>want to buy the '64' Olympic Stamp issued in China
>Please ask them to send their order to
>Hong Kong Alliance.
>Hong Kong Alliance got some limited quantities in stock before the
>speculators come into the market.
>Price: $2.00 (U.S.) per unit plus postage of  $20 U.S. per order by DHL
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't rush your order to HK.  There are plenty of stamp suppliers here
in the US that should satisfy your needs without paying the high
postage.  Anyone who is interested may contact me for a toll-free
number to order new PRC stamps close to their face values.


Ray
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Raymond C. Luh        |  So many deeds cry out to be done always urgently.  |
|  (415)-604-4494        |  The world rolls on.  Time presses.                 |
|  luh@ame.nas.nasa.gov  |  Seize the day.  Seize the hour.   --  Mao Zedong   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Another way to calculate economic strength
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:33:11 GMT

In article <9207240244.AA12901@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU> jzhang@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU writes:
>Concerning the claims that China is number one in electricity production
>and close to number one in steel production, here is information I
>got from _World Almanac 1992_:
>
>                 Electricity (bln. kwh.)   Crude Steel (million tons) 
>China                537 (in 1988)          59.0 (in 1988)
>U.S.                2781 (in 1988)          90.7 (in 1989)*
>
>*Note that the U.S. produces less steel than Japan.
>
>Zhenqin Li
There is chance I was wrong on steel and electricty. I do notice that the year
above not 1991, and you compared U.S. 1989' Steel production with China's
1988's.
From: AGTWX%ASUACAD.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu (Wu Tao)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Emergency Appeal
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:12:23 GMT
Reply-To: Wu Tao <AGTWX%ASUACAD.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Organization: Indiana University

From: Tao Wu
To: All Chinese students & Scholars

Re: "Opportunity Knocks But Once"

Zhao Haiqing's report/plea (07/22/92) is urgent. Believe it or not,
we are closer than ever before to get the Congress pass the Chinese
Protection bill (the "Greencard Bill"). Also, we are closer than ever
before to lose this bill (please read the report by Zhao
Haiqing for detail).  Now, the people lobbying for our interests
need our help for two things:

1) To call the offices of the members of the Rules Committee
   and ask for CLOSED RULE ON S1216 (Chinese Protection Bill).
   Names and phone numbers are in the Zhao Haiqing report.

Because the time left for this legislative year is very limited,
less than 40 days. Should amendments be attached, the bill has to
go back the Senate for a vote; the Senate and the House has to
work on their difference(s); and the President surely will veto
it if the amendment is regarding the Taiti refugees.

2) Send some money to the people working for us so that they can
   keep working for us.

   Payable to: CCSA/Immigration Fund
   CCSA, P.O. Box 65307, Washington DC, 20035-5307.

   It is a special account setting up for lobbying the immigration
   bill. It would not be used for other purposes.

"It is now or never" is truly the situation. Right now, empty
talks are irrelevent. Actions are needed. If we really want to
beat the odds and win this game, we need to act now. Besides,
this is not just concerning the students in school, but also
those who have got a job. As you know, should quotas be not enough,
you still would not get your greencard.

If everyone waits for the others to act, the lobby will fall
short of success for lack of the final effort which requires
our support. So do something for ourselves, please.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Another way to calculate economic strength
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:02:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.201451.3843@infoserver.th-darmstadt.de> D61O@br2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (One of 100 millions ZHANGs) writes:
>In <1992Jul21.235553.29698@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu writes:
>
>< Example:
><   Germany had strongest economy in Europe, when Germany asked other EEC
>< nations to recognized newly coatia, etc, reject. Germany raise her 
>< interest rate.
>
>Nonsense!
>
>It was the lending rate (Lombardsatz) that was raised by the German 
>Federal Bank. It is not necessarily connected to normal bank rates, if
>you know the differences between the lending rate and interests for
>loans or savings. The bank interests here have not changed since then.
>To understand this you must know something about the german economy in
>recent years.
>
>On the other hand, the German Federal Bank is politically an independent
>organization, what was the reason a lot german politicians recently have
>blamed it because its money-policy.
>
I got Germany's muscle_reflexing from Times margazine ont Coatia recognition
issue! If you are interested, please scan through this years Times to find
out the article. I do not know more than what I wrote, not able to make
further arguments. But I still believe Times made a good point.
I do not have any prejudice against Germany, I only used the instance as
a lesson for China's RMB convertability issue.

>
>======================================================================
>J.Z.
>d61o@br2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Ning Luo <ningluo@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      Numeric Impact of the Bill S1216 on Competition for Immigration
              Quotas
Reply-To: Ning Luo <ningluo@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:06:23 EDT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Hi,

I would appreciate very much if anyone could answer the following
questions, which would form a concise table demonstrating the
impact of the bill S1216 on the immigration quota:

(1) The annual quota for the "Third Preference" (or the second
after the reform?) which most CSS would opt to go if applying
for PR.  Is it still 2,000/year?
    Let's use Q1 to designate this number.

    What are the other categories which CSS could regularly go (Q2,Q3,...)?
For example, "an investment immigration quota"?

(2) The annual deductions of S1216 from each categories.
    Call it D1 ( and D2, D3,...)

(3) The estimate of number of CSS graduate each year and enter
the labor market.  My naive estimate is 10,000+/-2,000
(including their family members).
Anyone better informed please supply the figure.
    This number is N_i, where i stands for the year (say, 1993).

(4) The estimate of number covered by Bush's executive order
AND already graduated.  This is N_g.  N_g >= 30,000 is my estimate
(including their family members).

Therefore, the competitive ratio = number of people competing with quota/quota
would be:
                                 N_i
With S1216 adopted:  R_s = ----------------                     (1)
                            sum(Q_k - D_k)      (k = 1, 2,...)

With S1216 failed, and without equivalent laws or executive orders:

                            N_g + N_i
                     R_f = -----------                          (2)
                            sum(Q_k)

Let's take a simple model:

	Q_1 = 2,000   Q_k = 0 for k>= 2
        D_1 = 500
	N_i = 10,000
	N_g = 40,000  (the magic number :-))

then	R_s = 10,000/1,500 = 6.67  (7 people compete for one quota)
	R_f = 50,000/2,000 =25     (25 people compete for one quota)
i.e.	R_s/R_f = 0.27

In other words, the competition on the quota for CSS NOT covered
by Bush's order (i.e. came to US after 4/11/90) would be about
FOUR TIMES high if S1216 fails.

Notes:	(a) N_i contains in part those who are covered by the Bush's order.
	    So, N_i in (1) is actually smaller than in (2), which makes
	    R_s is even smaller (lesser competition);
	(b) N_g would have a small decrease in (2) each year since some
	    get PR and some leave US.  But this change would not be
	    significant compared with N_g itself within 5 years.
	(c) The existence of other categories (Q_2, Q_3, etc.) would
	    decrease both ratios R_s and R_f.

This kind of message, if presented in a clear, concise way, would
also help many who are not covered by the Bush's order to understand
the benefit to them, so that they may take part in the lobby actively,
or at least take a sympathetic stand.

Luo Ning
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: MSZHANG%SUNRISE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: MSZHANG%SUNRISE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:18:00 EST

Recently several persons made some noise about the matter that Dr.Zhao,
Haiqing has used the title of the President of IFCSS in his lobbying efforts.
I think Dr. Zhao's action is fully justified to the benefit of all CSS:

1)Zhao has been the president of IFCSS, and he can use this tilte as
Ronol Regon and Jimy Carter are still called " Mr. President". I want to
make clear there is one month transition period and in this period we
can have two acting presidents.

2). For the better effects of lobbying effort, Dr. Zhao need to represent
all the CSS in this country, so it is better for him to use the title
of the president. Why not ? What is wrong? Especially from the benefit
of all the CSS in this country, why not?

3). I hust received a message that IFCSS, leading by Mr. Geng, Xiao, will
ste up a task force and a bank account for the matter. I think the only
confusion should be cleared  at this time is : how the task force coordinate
its action with ongoing activities leading by Dr. Zhao?
Also, We have a previous message for another account to send donation to.
Which one should we really trust?

                                        Zhang, Minsheng
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: be honest and you might get some respect
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:09:19 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <Brxo92.EnG@acsu.buffalo.edu> ningluo@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Luo) writes:
>Excuse me, but do I see a logic problem here?

Yes you do, but I'm not the one making it. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

It's called the fallacy of composition.  The fallacy is that what is
good or bad if done by one individual is equally good or bad if done
by everyone.

Reality doesn't work that way.  If it did, we wouldn't need
governments.

>Suppose China has 30 provinces.  As the provinces declare independence
>one by one, each of the newly independent province is better off than not 
>being independent.  

Right. 

>Finally, we reach the stage when only two provinces
>are left.  When these two break up, suddenly, every previously
>independent and better-off provinces would become worse off?

No.  The thing that you are ignoring is that when a province secedes,
it's improving it's own condition by a lot, but making everyone else's
condition worse by just a little.  What happens in the end is that you
have one instance in which your condition improves and 29 instances in
which your condition worsens.  This leaves everyone worse off.

Think of it in terms of pollution.  If I pollute, I bring a
substantual improvement to my own condition, and make everyone else
condition only a little worse.  The problem is that if everyone
pollutes.......



Newsgroups: talk.politics.china