HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA thinks the BSA allows gay scouts
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:15:41 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <5768@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> I have a call in to Mr. Magnani to
> discuss this contradiction with him.  (His secretary tells me that I am
> far from the only one.)  I have also requested a copy of the communication
> from the national leadership.

A Ms. Betty Reese returned my call.

When I read to her the excerpt from "Scouting" magazine, she stuttered
a bit and reiterated that BofA was satisfied with the communication 
received from the national president of BSA.

When I asked her if the communication simply stated that "the opportunity 
to join the Boy Scouts of America is open to all boys who subscribe to the 
Scout oath and law, Cub Scout promise or Explorer code," she immediately
responded that the letter promised that there were no reservations implicit
in this phrase about exclusion of undesirable groups.  (The speed with which
she saw where the question was leading showed that THAT point had been made
to her before.)

When I asked for a copy of the communication, she said that it would be
unethical for her to distribute someone else's letter, but that I could
request a copy from the author:

	John Clendenin, Chairman
	Bell South Corporation
	Suite 2000
	1155 Peachtree Street NE
	Atlanta GA 30067-6000

When I asked if BofA intended to independently investigate the discrepancy 
between what Mr. Clendenin wrote and what "Scouting" published, she 
answered non-responsively twice; then finally agreed to refer the matter
back to the bank and promised it would be followed up.

All in all, my impressions are that they've heard from a lot of people on
this subject, and are treading really, really carefully.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Scoutin past
Summary: change of subject
Date: 14 Aug 1992 06:26:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx




Well, I'm amused with the discussion (actually I'm bored with it now).
Do not get me wrong, I think there are a lot of good points being
made, and some good sharing of ideas.  I would like this group to be
more.  For me, I'm no longer a scout, but have fond memories scouting,
and would not mind hearing about other people's experiences.

I think serious discussion is good, but must be balanced.

So what memories would I liked shared.  Well, I know that hazing is
baned from scouting in general.  And I do not approve of it, but as a
scout there was always some light hazing going on.  Here is some of
the hazing I remember

Walking from campsite to campsite looking for a left handed
smoke shifter (a classic) or 1000 ft of shore line

And another classic the snipe hunt (which was featured on a Cheers
show).  I remember having the shit scared out of me from a creature that
did not exist.  But my Senior Patrol leader said I was real close to
catching one.  They're even suppose to taste great.


I know I was victim of other stuff, but I do not remember.  If there
are other experiences I would like to hear them.  I do not want to hear
stories of kids being spiteful or outright mean to other scouts (you
know stuff within the bounds of scouting spirit)

If anyone has a problem with any part of this posting, please tell me
through email (unless you absolutely must must flame me on the bulletin).  

:)

Ross



PS sorry if there are typos, it is really late.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kbr@cbnews.cb.att.com (kenneth.b.reber)
Subject: Re: Scouting - Boy Scout camp in the Black Hills
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:53:31 GMT



I have heard of a Boy Scout camp in the Black Hills area and
would like to get information on it or an address to write for info.

Is anyone familiar with the camp(s) in the that part of S. Dakota?
Where are the state B.S.A. offices located?

Thanks for any help.
Ken, 614 860 4669
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,chi.general
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Followup-To: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:46:14 GMT

[Followup to rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general]

In their effort to restore funding to the Boy Scouts of America, the
Bank of America and the United Way of Suburban Chicago have lifted
their bans on supporting racially and religiously discriminatory
programs. (Note: the United Way of Suburban Chicago is distinct from
the United Way of Chicago.)

The Boy Scouts of American excludes gay and atheist scouts.

According to Eric Zorn in the Chicago Tribune, the suburban UW's
former antidiscrimination guidelines used to say a group is not
eligible for funding if it discriminates on the basis of, among other
attributes sexual orientation and religious belief. [Aug 16, 1992]
When the BofA withdrew funding, it said "Regrettably... our
nondiscrimination policy precludes us from continuing our financial
support off the organization due to its decision to bar scouts ...
based on sexual preference, rather than personal conduct." [SF
Examiner, May 30, 1992]

The suburban UW's new policy now says that groups "organized by, on
behalf of, or to serve persons of a particular race, religion, sex,
national origin" and so on are, in fact, eligible for funding as long
as they don't break nondiscrimination laws. The BofA press release
says: "BankAmerica's contributions policies allow it to make donations
only to those organizations that provide full access and equal
opportunity to all members of the class that the organization is
designed to serve."

Thanks to the new policy, the KKK's youth program is now eligible for
funding since it is designed to serve only white Christians.

And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
BSA while excluding the KKK? If not, should the BSA be excluded or
should the KKK be included?

- Carl

(According to the BofA press release, they can be contacted at
          Bank of America Corporate Public Relations
          Peter Magnani, 415/953-2418
          John Keane, 415/622-2773)
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: mayne@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting Magazine Article
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:53:48 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Aug20.171923.7657@uwm.edu> dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:
>
>My largest complaint with those who are attacking the BSA is that
>it is NOT a desire to "right a wrong" that is the prime motivation.
>...They truly don't care if they destroy
>the BSA in the process.

Attacking the BSA policies of discrimination is not attacking scouting
or even the BSA itself. It is a wrong to be put right. Putting it right
is in the best of interest of scouting. Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
anti-American because he worked to get rid of discrimination by law?

You have a lot of gall to presume to know the motives of everyone
who opposes discrimination.

Bill Mayne

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:30:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.110428.10268@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>Is it possible to create a policy that supports discrimination of
>atheists and gays but excludes discrimination of Jews and
>African-Americans? If not, should the BSA be excluded or should the
>KKK be included?


achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:

[...]
>I don't understand the objection to any private group using any criteria 
>whatsoever for membership. If you don't like it, don't support it, but
>freedom for all includes freedom for those you loathe. As long as they 
>aren't supported by your tax dollars.
[...]

The gist of my letter was:
I don't think United Way chapters should change their charters to
allow support of racially and religiously discriminatory programs.

I support the legal right of BSA to exclude atheists and gays boys
(and the KKK to exclude Jews and blacks).

[...]
>BSA has the same standards they 
>have had for something like ninety years.
[...]

Their standard have changed with the times. It some places the BSA
used to be racially segregated (i.e.  some troops used to exclude
blacks) also in some places blacks were not allowed to wear the scout
uniform.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:46:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.134007.17942@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
>BSA has the same standards they 
>have had for something like ninety years.

False.  BSA has different standards involving skin color than it had ninety
years ago.
--
I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the writings of Socrates.
    -- Ed Nilges

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:11:19 GMT
Reply-To: frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In the UK the Scout promise is:

	On my honour I promise that I will do my best-
	To do my duty to God and to the queen,
	To help other people and to keep the Scout Law.

And the law is:

	1.	A scout is to be trusted.
	2.	A Scout is loyal.
	3.	A Scout is friendly and considerate.
	4.	A Scout is a brother to all Scouts.
	5.	A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
	6.	A Scout makes good use of his time and is.
		careful of possessions and property.
	7.	A Scout has respect for himself and for others.


Simon
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scoutin past
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:22:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Aug14.141435.29761@rdg.dec.com> frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com () writes:
>
>Memories...
>
>Left handed screw drivers (for left handed screws of course)
>Sky hooks
>Elbow grease
>A long weight (wait)
>
50 feet of Shoreline

C Squared
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kckbxr@next13pg2.wam.umd.edu (Robin Hood)
Subject: Re: Wearing Eagle Badge & Medal
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:07:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.133254.17282@eng.umd.edu> wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne  
C. McCullough) writes:
> Does anyone out there know of the guidelines for wearing the
> eagle badge and/or medal?  In particular, can an eagle 18yrs
> or older wear the medal at cerimonies?
> 
> In my troop, it is customary for everyone who recieved the badge in
> the troup (ie, non-parents) to wear the medal at cerimonies (esp eagle
> COH), even if they are over 18.  Only those under 18 wear the badge.
> 
> W
My understanding of the correct wearing of Eagle awards is as follows.  A  
youth who is an Eagle Scout may wear the patch (I'm assuming you're  
talking about the badge=patch) anytime.  Upon moving up into the adult  
leadership ranks of scouting (19+), the patch is no longer worn.  It is  
replaced with the Eagle knot (it is red, white, and blue) and is worn  
above the left-breast pocket on the uniform.  The medal is usually  
reserved for special occasions (i.e. ceremonies, Scout Sunday, etc.) and  
can be worn at the recipient's discretion.

Bill S.
 Eagle Scout '89
 Alpha Phi Omega (U. of Maryland)
 

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: tents for scout camping.
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: {not speaking for the} University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:08:44 GMT

rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:

> 	- able to hold three souts + gear 
> 	- durable
> 	- easy to set up ( at night, in the rain, etc.)
> 	- easy care
> 	- enough standing room to be comfortable
> 	- a good deal over the long run, not necessarily the lowest price

I would suggest you look at some of the larger tents from Eureka.  I
can't remember the name, but they have a line of self-supporting tents
with 2 poles at either end and a curved ridgepole.  They are very easy
to set up, even in the dark.  The poles are held together by elastic 
through the middle, the fly clips on to the poles, and stakes aren't
necessary--depending on the conditions, and if you have enough gear in
them to keep them from moving.

My troop had several of the smallest model, they held 2 scouts well, but
were cramped with gear.  One summer camp we went to had the 3-person
model, it seemed more like a house than a tent for two scouts.
-- 
Thomas Aaron Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
  "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:04:28 GMT


[Here is my letter to the Chicago Tribune. Anyone know the address
of the suburban UW? - Carl]
						August 21, 1992

Voice of the People
Chicago Tribune
435 N. Michigan Ave.
Chicago, IL 60611

Dear Editor:

I am disgusted to read that the United Way of Suburban Chicago will
now support racially and religiously discriminatory programs.
According to Eric Zorn's column on August 16, the suburban United
Way's new "antidiscrimination" policy says that groups "organized by,
on behalf of, or to serve persons of a particular race, religion, sex,
national origin" are now eligible for funding.

The column says this change was made to allow funding of the Boy
Scouts (who exclude gay and atheist boys). But thanks to the new
policy, a KKK youth program designed to serve only white Christians is
now eligible for United Way funding.

Is it possible to create a policy that supports discrimination of
atheists and gays but excludes discrimination of Jews and
African-Americans? If not, should the BSA be excluded or should the
KKK be included?

Sincerely,


Carl M. Kadie
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:29:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.193749.18092@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
>
>How have other Troops and 5th grade Webelos Dens worked together?  Also,
>in what month do you have crossover (or do the boys finish the year
>with the pack and not join the Troop until the start of 6th grade)?
>
My 5th grade den will crossover in March.  As we have a large number
(>6) troops for the boys to choose from, I'm not sure what it means
for us to work together with a single troop.

Regards,

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation	voice:  (703) 883-7586
7525 Colshire Drive	FAX:	(703) 883-1397
McLean, VA   22102
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: tents for scout camping.
From: jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU (Joseph Combs)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:08:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati
Keywords: Eureka tents

In article <Bt5vIM.4w@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tinsel@uiuc.edu writes:

>I would suggest you look at some of the larger tents from Eureka.  I
>can't remember the name, but they have a line of self-supporting tents
>with 2 poles at either end and a curved ridgepole.  They are very easy
>to set up, even in the dark.

My troop has been using Eureka tents for approximately 20 years and have
had no major problems.  We use their 8-man cabin model (I'm not sure of
the exact name). It features a similar 3 pole support configuration with a
canvas roof and walls and a vinyl floor.

The first ones we had lasted 15 years under some of the roughest conditions
you can imagine. What finally did them in was when we were at a district 
peterloon and a tornado was spotted in the vicinity. Despite the strong winds 
shredding 4 of them one is still in use to this day. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Combs                          |jgcombs@uceng.uc.edu                   |
| ASM Troop 24, Dan Beard Council    |                                       |
| Cincinnati, Ohio                   |   I'm still working on a quote        |
| Eagle Class of 1990                |                                       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:22020 rec.arts.comics.misc:1075
From: ckb@athena.mit.edu (Christopher K. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Comics with Missing Coupons
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:31:54 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Phaedrus) writes:
> kesidis@panther.uwaterloo.ca (George Kesidis) writes:
>>Fool that I am, I decided to ask a local store owner
>>if he had any valiant back issues. He laughed and
>>said that the only copies he had seen were missing coupons
>>and therefore in at best VG condition.
>>For a recent comic, VG condition is  the kiss of death
>>so he said they were worth about 50 cents each in that state.
>>
>>What is the deal here? If the comic books themselves are
>>in mint condition but with the insert (coupon) missing, do they
>>become worthless?
>
>     Pretty much exactly.  As a matter of fact, IMO, Very Good condition is an
>awfully high grade for a comic with a coupon missing; if you use the Overstreet
>scale in the Grading Guide, anything with a coupon missing is Good at best.
>That means it's only worth about 15% of its NM value, which for most recent
>comics means 15% of cover.  Comic stores can't afford to buy comics that are
>worth that little; there's too much overhead involved in keeping it in the
>store to yield any sort of profit margin.

This may be your fantasy of the way things are- but the reality is
much different.  Valiants - especially Harbingers - routinely sell
for over half their NM value with coupons.  Of course, Mr. Overstreeet says
A Harbinger 1 is worth $15.  I haven't seen one sold at less than $50 in
six weeks.

Harbinger sets (1-6, w/o coupons) seem were going for $50 per at the last
Boston show.

You also must remember - removing the coupons from these books does not
mangle any panels or artwork.  They are bound into the book as a separate
thing.

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks
From: hoahosth@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (ANDREA HOSTH)
Subject: Re: Sandman questions
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:12:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.095248.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cbjuland@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Subject: Sandman questions

>Who are all the people in the Sandman "Endless" poster? (I'm kinda new to all
>the characters.)  I can recognize Dream, Death, Destiny, Desire, and Despair.
>Is the punk girl at the bottom Deliriuor (Delight?) and who is the 
>bearded guy in the back by the painting?

The girl is Delerium, who used to be Delight. The bearded man is 
Destruction, the third (?) eldest Endless. (He who is currently missing).


>I also have a question about the comcic.  What is the purpose of Dreams helmet? 
>He was afraid to take it off in front of Lucifer (issue #23).  Does it prothim
>or is it just a badge of office?

Its part of his regalia and (I think) in some way provides strength to him. 
He originally (at the beginning of series) had three items: a gem, a pouch 
of sand and the helm. He had invested a fair deal of power into the gem, 
which was returned to him when Dr. D. destroyed it. The pouch of sand is a 
tool in which to shape the stuff of dreams. The helm is less easy to pin 
down. I can't recall him ever "using" it to do anything, so I assume that he 
might even just feel better with it on. 

Ankh

From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:53:47 GMT
Subject: Re: WILDC.A.T.S.?!?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics

In rec.arts.comics, midnight@mdnite.enet.dec.com (Dr. Midnight) writes:

> 
> 
> Well, I liked it.  
> 
> 
>It's formula, yeah, and not that much different than say, the X-men.

Yes, it offers absolutley nothing at all that is new or intersting.
Its only appeas is the pretty illustrations of extremely distorted
human bodies.

> But it was fun.  

In a tedious and derivative sort of way.


> 
> 
> Call me a fanboy if you wish, but hell, I like Jim Lee's art, and I liked the
> story.  Fast paced and intellectual spaghetti. 

> It's a Terminator movie.  You
> don't go because you're looking for brain food, you're going because you're
> looking for mind candy.

I tend to like my candy sweet.  This is more like mind saurkraut.

> 
> But like I said, it's fun.  Definitely worth a shot.

Nice (although typicl) illustrations.  Average comic book
melodrama and cheap theatrics.

doug
From: lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu (glenn alan carnagey jr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: more whining about LSH #33, and a challenge
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:49:38 GMT
Reply-To: lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug12.070209.4188@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <6027@npri6.npri.com> murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>>can some more experienced LSH fan please let me know if
>>these super-heroes have performed product endorsements before?
>
>Only in Adventure #377....

Which was the ultimate caveat against putting all your eggs in one basket

Pax,
Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,alt.sex,talk.bizarre