HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weschap@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Wes Chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Some information
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:31:04 GMT
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <1992Sep5.210847.8941@uvm.edu>
cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak) writes:
 
>
>From article <1992Sep5.122300.16797@sci.kun.nl>, by wgast9@sci.kun.nl
>(Gasten uit Hongarije (Polman)):
>
>  I need some information about hypertext, in general.
>  I mean, some document about it. Could somebody tell
>  me an ftp site from where I can get these information ?
>
>
> Here are some references -- the one by Jakob Nielsen is excellent !
>
>Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Title:          From Memex to hypertext : Vannevar Bush and the mind's machine
>
> Published:      Boston : Academic Press, c1991.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Title:          Hypertext/hypermedia handbook
>
> Published:      New York : Intertext Publications : McGraw-Hill, c1991.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Author:         Nielsen, Jakob
> Title:          Hypertext and hypermedia
> Published:      Boston : Academic Press, c1990.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To this list I would add two more:  Jay Bolter's _Writing Space_, described
by Ernest Perez in a previous posting (already read it, but thanks anyway,
Ernest), and George Landow's _Hypertext_ (there's a subtitle to this one,
but I forgetwhat it is--anyone who needs it should drop me a line and I'll
dig out the reference).  Landow's book starts out being heavily invested in
literary theory, so if that's not your thing you'll need to do some skimming,
but once you get past that there's some good background and some solid thinking
on several aspects of hypertext.  Bolter first, though.
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
weschap@uiucvmd.bitnet
From: dtalmage@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Hypertexts by FTP from guvax.georgetown.edu
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:04:59 GMT
Organization: Georgetown University

Some hypertext documents are now available via anonymous FTP from 
guvax.georgetown.edu.  You'll find the following in hypertext/thinker:

ALICE11.LHA;1         9-SEP-1992 18:03:13    83091/163    (RWED,RE,,)
JARG2910.LHA;1        9-SEP-1992 18:00:17   701000/1370   (RWED,RE,,)
JARG2910.TXT;1        9-SEP-1992 18:01:58     1290/3      (RWED,RE,,)
LOOKGL10.LHA;1        9-SEP-1992 18:03:22    94463/185    (RWED,RE,,)
THINK214.LZH;1        9-SEP-1992 18:02:47   227901/446    (RWED,RE,,)

All of the hypertext documents are marked up for Thinker, a hypertext 
system for Macs and Amigas (and PC's?) from Poor Person Software.

ALICE11 is version 1.1 of the Project Gutenberg Alice in Wonderland.
LOOKGL10 is version 1.0 of the Project Gutenberg Through the Looking 
Glass.  There is nothing special about these texts except that they've 
already been imported into a ht system so you don't have to DIY.  I 
did it because I thought it would help people develop their own 
annotated Alices and Looking Glasses.

JARG2910 is version 2.9.10 of the Jargon File, a lexicon of technical 
jargon and hacker folklore.  As far as I know, this is the current 
version of the file.

THINK214 is a demo version of Thinker 2.1.4 for the Amiga.  It's 
freely distributable and slightly crippled: you can't save with it.  
I think you can get a Mac demo version for $5 from Poor Person Software.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Talmage (dtalmage@guvax.georgetown.edu)
"Once more.  This is deixis.  This is your brain on deixis.  Any questions?"
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext,soc.libraries.talk,bit.listserv.medlib-l
Subject: Interested in 'Information Navigator' discussion group ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:10:11 GMT
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.


[I have cross-posted this somewhat, for a wide dispersion.
 Sorry if you see it more than once. ]

We are looking to start an informal e-mail conference 
for swapping ideas, etc. on the 'Information Navigator' 
database software (sold by IME Systems, Inc.), similar to the
listserv's for BRS (brs-l) or NOTIS, etc. 

[For those of you who don't know, 'The Information 
 Navigator' is a library catalog software product, avail. in
 DOS and UNIX versions,  with several hypertext-like features. 
 But, then, this message isn't specifically addressed to you :-) . ]
 
The group would exit as a forum for asking  (and perhaps
getting answered) 'how did you do this?' or 'has anybody 
else seen this bug?', etc. ?

For now, please write back to me (don't post, for heaven's
sake!) and let me know that you're interested; mention
what version of the product you are running, and in
what hardware configuration.

Thanks. Please feel free to repost or forward to appropriate
individuals or groups.

Dave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com (Internet)
These are my opinions & activities alone

QOTD:

There are Russians in the front yard, there's Martians on the ceiling
There's a Cape buffalo on the patio and you ask me how I'm feeling
There's a sniper by the swingset, the highway has been mined
Then here you come with a great big smile singing, rise and shine.

Well, there's nothing you could say that will get me up today
Nothing you have ever said that can drive me from this bed
You can call me lazy, crazy, call me stupid, I don't care
I ain't gettin' up, cause its dangerous out there.
			Bill Morrissey
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Hypermart?
From: vax1::rtiger@vax1.umkc.edu (Roy Bengal Tiger)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:06:13 GMT
Reply-To: vax1::rtiger@vax1.umkc.edu (Roy Bengal Tiger)
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


Speaking of hypertext, have any of you shopped at Hypermart?
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: gaa6926@usl.edu (Accardo Glen A)
Subject: Another Reader/Writer Problem
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 16:37:50 GMT


I need a bit of input on a hypertext I am building.  I am trying to find a
way to make William Blake's Illuminated Works available to freshman/sophomore
literature students.  For those unfamiliar with these works, they are poems,
some very simple, others heavily mystic and obscure, which Blake etched and
painted via his own technique of illuminated printing.  The net result
is a set of some 250 images which should be available to students in
something that resembles their original form, but have traditionally been
taught as text-only poems.  Some images evolved over time, as Blake became
a better painter or as he changed his mind about how to do some things.
Ideally, the hypertext would have all thirty copies of Songs of Innocence
and Experience -- if I can get copies of them.

My question centers around the issue that has been discussed here lately.
Do I allow students to have a complete authoring environment and build
any sort of structure they want?  Or, do I restrict their additions to
what can be made via the Reader's Notes feature of HyperWriter for 
Windows?  There is some middle ground; I could make some topics read-only,
but I'm not sure I want to go to the extra effort of adding security
to the text.

These are not the most computer literate students, and they probably won't
have much time to spend with this hypertext unless U.S.L. radically enhances
its budget to include a dozen or so computers, etc.  So, for now, about
ninety or so students will need to access the machine to read the poems.

Any input is welcome.

Thanks,
glen accardo             University of Southwestern Louisiana
gaa@usl.edu              English Graduate School
From: Edward_Lunny@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Lunny)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Some information
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:55:38 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I would like to know about hypertext as well.What is it and what is it designed
to do ?
Thanks
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: support tools
From: instone@hydra.bgsu.edu (Keith Instone)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:35:28 GMT
Organization: Bowling Green State University, Computer Science

In article <Bu9G5r.J0H@andy.bgsu.edu>, I wrote:
|> I am looking for a reference from the hypertext literature, but I have
|> not been able to find it. Can anybody help me?
|> 
|> I vaguely remember reading a paper where the author stressed the importance
|> of the "support tools", I think s/he called them. You know, all of those
|> extra things that aren't REALLY hypertext, but you can't get around
|> without them. Like history lists, node marking, paths, guided tours, 
|> searching, etc. I can't even remember the point of the paper, just that
|> it talks about support tools.

I finally tracked down what I was looking for. The authors call them
"access and guidance" tools, not support tools. Here is the ref (from
the HCI Bibliography):

%T Extending Hypertext for Learning: An Investigation of Access and Guidance
Tools
%S Hypertext and Hypermedia
%A Nick Hammond
%A Lesley Allinson
%B Proceedings of the HCI'89 Conference on People and Computers V
%D 1989
%P 293-304
%K Hypertext, Learning support environment, Information retrieval
%* (c) Copyright 1989 British Informatics Society Ltd.
%X We argue that hypertext provides a basis for exploratory learning systems,
but should be supplemented by more directed guidance and access mechanisms.  A
system with a variety of such mechanisms is outlined and is the subject of a
study in which the provision of facilities is systematically varied.  The study
highlights some problems with bare hypertext, including inefficient information
access and failure to provide an overview, and illustrates how these problems
can be addressed.

And thanks to the 2 people who thought perhaps their paper was what I
was looking for and emailed me. I may use them, too.

-- 
Keith instone @ (hydra bullwinkle andy) .bgsu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: fogel@jester.usask.ca (Earl Fogel)
Subject: Announcing: Hytelnet Software for Unix and VMS
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:00:22 GMT

Many of you may already be familiar with the Unix and VMS Hytelnet
software, but I believe this is the first announcement to be made in
this forum.  Here goes.

Hytelnet is Peter Scott's hypertext database of Internet-accessible
telnet sites.  Hytelnet lists libraries, Campus-Wide Information
Systems, Freenets and more.  Peter distributes Hytelnet for the PC,
accompanied by Neil Larson's HYPERRES software.  I don't have a PC,
so I wrote my own hypertext display software for Unix and VMS systems.

In addition to following hypertext links, the Unix and VMS software
notices telnet commands embedded in the files, and will execute them
for the user, if desired.  TN3270 commands can be executed as well, if
this program is available on your system.

The Unix and VMS Hytelnet software uses the same file format as HYPERRES,
so it is possible to plug-and-play other HYPERRES databases as well.

The Unix and VMS Hytelnet software is available via anonymous ftp
from access.usask.ca (128.233.3.1) in the /pub/hytelnet directory, and
from ftp.unt.edu (129.120.1.1) in the /pub/library/hytelnet directory.
If you would like a wonderfully useful hypertext database as well,
retrieve the file hyteln62.zip from the hytelnet/pc directory.

If you are on the Internet, you can try out Hytelnet as follows:
 
     telnet access.usask.ca
     login: hytelnet  (all lowercase, no password required)


Earl Fogel
-------------------------------------------------------------------
fogel@sask.usask.ca		Computing Services, Room 56 Physics
Phone: (306) 966-4861		University of Saskatchewan
Fax:   (306) 966-4938		Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0
From: dsr@otter.hpl.hp.com (Dave Raggett)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:07:22 GMT
Subject: distributed hypertext project?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext

I am interested in starting a skunk works project to investigate/develop
a public domain hypertext system with links that extend over the internet.
The user interface would look similar to the help system on Microsoft Windows,
but the links would operate over internet connections. The system would
separate data in a standard format from the visualisation programs, so that
you could use PCs, and Macs as well as Unix boxes.

  Has anything like this been done before?
 
  Any suggestions as to how it should work, and what facilities are needed?

It would be great fun if this could be developed as a group activity, so
if you want join in, mail or phone me at:

Dave Raggett, HPLabs, Bristol, UK

internet: dsr@hplb.hpl.hp.com

phone: +44 272 228046
From: gaa6926@usl.edu (Accardo Glen A)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Some information
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:13:39 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana


  The name of Landow's book (the one that was mentioned) is _Hypertext:
the Convergence of Contemporary Critical Theory and Technology_.  Johns
Hopkins is the publisher.  It is very current and an EXCELLENT source of
what hypertext is and means, especially if you don't want to dig through
endless reams of software specifications.

  Another book on hypertext, edited by Landow, is Hypermedia and Literary
Studies.  Again, an excellent book, highly recommended.

glen accardo      University of Southwestern Louisiana
gaa@usl.edu       English Graduate School
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: wgast9@sci.kun.nl (Gasten uit Hongarije (Polman))
Subject: Some information
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 12:23:00 GMT

 I need some information about hypertext, in general.
I mean, some document about it. Could somebody tell
me an ftp site from where I can get these information ?

Also, I want to use some public domain systems. So I need
also the address the sites where I can find these programs.
I'm interested in the Unix and the IBM-PC DOS versions.

                               Thanks,


                               Laszlo Molnar
                               wgast9@sci.kun.nl




D
D
C

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Shroud of Turin
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:21:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

Well since Paul Kominsky has left the net, there is little purpose in taking 
this argument of the Shroud of Turin much further.  Since I said I would look 
for references though, I will upon receipt of those references, print what I 
find. I will also hold my other criticisms to myself until those references 
arrive.
 
				Later,

				Dave Butler

    Knowledge consists in understanding the evidence that establishes 
    fact, not in the belief that it is a fact.
				Charles T. Sprading
				American Writer
From: v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: assholes revisited
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:19:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <j1moody-070992012737@lafmacconsultant.lafortune.lab.nd.edu>, j1moody@darwin.cc.nd.edu (Humpty Dumpty) writes...
>It was amusing to see so many level-headed, objective athiests get so 
>frazzled at being labeled assholes. The vengefully rude, insecure
>and irrational replies to my original post was all I needed to confirm my
>obtrusive assumption.

Heh.  I love this.  Child calls other child "asshole."  When other child says,
"Oh, yeah?  Fuck you!" the first child says, "See, you *are* an asshole!"

>Now imagine all the things they called Jesus, even as the blood poured down
>his
>brow.   And what was his reply?

>"They know not what they do."

Oh.  I thought it was, "You can call me anything, but don't call me late for 
dinner."  A real card, that guy.

******************************************************************************
Mike Cluff				*      I'm the person that	
v22964qs@ubvms or mike%luick@ubvms	*      the president
UB Language Perception Laboratory	*      warned you about.    
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)
Subject: Re: Christianic Sacrifices
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 04:50:53 GMT

In article <18qbpaINNp61@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes:
>
>Er... if you're an atheist, why are you saying God is at the root of 
>so many wars?

Er, well, it would certainly be a refreshing change to hear a theist admit
this, but one would assume that a theist who recognized this fact would
likely become an atheist fairly quickly.

>Even those of us who are religious would mostly agree
>that it's not so much God (as it seems to have been believed in the
>Hebrew scriptures) at the root of 'holy' (NOT) wars any more, as it is
>people's diseased ideas of what they think God wants.

Since this God doesn't exist, I would have to say that all things that
people do in this God's name are based on diseased ideas of what they think
this God wants.  Sometimes they do the right things by accident, but more
often that not, they do the opposite.

What is this "Even those of us who are religious ..." stuff?  Is this supposed
to be an astounding admission, something no atheist could hope to surpass?
What you've offered is the standard defense given by Christians (and other
theists) to avoid admitting to themselves that their religion has been one
of the most destructive forces ever unleashed against mankind.

>You can do any evil you like in God's name, but She isn't going to accept
>it. It would be like giving a rabbi a ham sandwich.

Being an atheist, I don't much care what she accepts, since I don't believe
she exists.  I'm far more concerned with what people have done, and are
doing, in her name.  Oh, and much as I'd prefer it to be so, I don't believe
that the god of the Bible is a she.  She is quite obviously a patriarch.
--
Doug Graham          Unk, the big trouble with dumb bastards is that they
dgraham@bnr.ca       are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being
My own opinions.     smart.    --Kurt Vonnegut from _The Sirens of Titan_
From: cjhs@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Logical Fallacies
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:22:35 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Torkel Franzen (torkel@sics.se) wrote:
:   Generally speaking the term "reductio ad absurdum" is commonly
: applied to two forms of argument. The first form of argument derives a
: contradiction from the assumption A and concludes not-A. This is
: universally regarded as unproblematic. The second form, "classical
: reductio", derives a contradiction from the assumption not-A and
: concludes A. This is the controversial principle.

How do you distinguish these two cases?

Genuinely curious -- Chris Ho-Stuart
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: stave@frost.apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: The End of the World is Nigh!!!
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:09:18 GMT
Reply-To: stave@frost.apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Sep9.173254.12259@tcom.stc.co.uk>, bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk
(Bruce Munro) writes:
|> On a related note, hasn't some Korean church predicted the end of the
|> world next month? Someone told me a story that the followers of the church
|> are so convinced of it that they're giving away all their wordly goods

I heard about this on NPR.  There are two factions, one that believes
it will be Oct 28 (I think) and another that says Oct 10.  Some of these
people are dieting so they will be lighter and it will be easier for them
to rise up to heaven.  I think the person being interviewed said that
there were only a few thousand people believing this stuff.

I think I remember learning that there was a big fuss just before the
year 1000 AD - something about the millenium and the end of the world.
I'll bet there will be a similar full at the year 2000.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:39:24 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep13130703@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.193139.4493@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>-   >Can you
>-   >prove that murder is immoral?
>-   No.
>
>So it comes down to moral relativism.  I agree, there is no basis for
>any kind of moral system...no basis in pure absolutism.  But when I
>see people telling their kids that who they are is sick, sinful, etc.,
>I will strike out, I will point out the danger they are causing.  We
>cannot quibble about moral relativism.  Philosophically, that's the
>only thing that makes sense.
What? Why can't we quibble about moral relativism? Why should
I sit by and watch you wave your hands and pull bogus moral
claims out of the air? I have no objection, sir, to you pointing
out the danger that the bigots are causing. What I have an
objection to is your bogus claim that they are acting in an immoral
fashion.

>But hey, unless you are arguing *for* an anarchy, your comments are
>thoroughly unhelpful and I have no intention of trying to "prove" that
>*any* moral is "true," or whatever.
1) I'm not arguing FOR anything. I'm arguing AGAINST foolish claims
for moral values.
2) It is not at all clear that lack of moral values implies arguing
for anarchy.
3) Why should I be interested in being "helpful"? I am surprised,
however, that you are not interested in having an argument which
is correct.

Sir, you have made a moral assertion. Three options are possible
here.
1) You retract it.
2) You support it.
3) You simply claim it to be true with no substantiation in reality.

You have just ruled out option 2. Option three is intellectually
dishonest. Moreover, it is on precisely the same footing as the
fundamentalists who have simply attempted to declare their moral
values by fiat, just as you have done.

What's it going to be then, eh?
-Ekr







-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.