From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Subject: Summary Report Rev.6 (part) for fj.LiJ [English+Japanese]
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 10:44:14 GMT

Hi,
$B5WLn$G$9!#(J

  I have summerized the discussion in recent 2-3weeks.  This
takes a form of "objection & answers" section of summary report,
but only those arguments found in recent articles are extracted.
As there were so many articles, I might have missed some of the
major arguments.  If you found such points, would you kindly
inform me?
  $B$3$N(J2$B!A(J3$B=54V$N5DO@$r$^$H$a$F$_$^$7$?!#%5%^%j!<%l%]!<%H$N!V0[5D(J
$B$HH?O@!W$N7A$r<h$C$F$$$^$9$,!":G6a5DO@$,$"$C$?ItJ,$N$_$NH4?h$K$J$C(J
$B$F$$$^$9!#5-;v$,$9$4$/0lGU$"$k$N$G!"<gMW$J5DO@$G$b8+Mn$7$?$b$N$,(J
$B$"$k$+$bCN$l$^$;$s!#$b$7$=$&$$$&$N$,$"$k$H;W$o$l$?$i!"65$($FD:$1(J
$B$k$H4r$7$$$G$9!#$O$$!#(J

						     Yasushi Kuno
							     $B5WLn(J
  
-----------------------------------------------------------------
O1. Why not make use of soc.culture.japan?
    If your site do not receive it, why not now?
    $B$J$s$G(Jsoc.culture.japan$B$r;H$o$J$$$N(J?
    $B<u$1$H$C$F$$$J$$$N$J$i!":#$=$&$9$l$P(J?

A1-1. s.c.j is mostly used for discussion about Japan as seen
      from outside.  We need "from inside" viewpoint.
      s.c.j$B$O30$+$i8+$?F|K\$K4X$9$k5DO@$P$C$+$j$G$7$g$&!#(J
      $B$3$N%0%k!<%W$OCf$+$i!"$@$+$i0c$&$H;W$&!#(J

A1-2. s.c.j is already too crowded, and we might get complained if
      we talk about Japan-local issue there.
      s.c.j$B$O4{$K:.$_2a$.$F$$$k$7!"$3$3$KF|K\9qFb$G$O$I$&$N!"$H(J
      $B$$$&$N$r%]%9%H$7$@$9$HJ86g$r8@$o$l$k$H;W$&$,!#(J

A1-3. We want Jananese-intermixed articles.  s.c.j. is not
      appropriate because those who cannot read Kanji will
      complain, even if news sytem itself can handle it.
      $B2f!9$OF|K\8l$b:.$6$C$?$N$r$d$j$?$$$N$G!"(Js.c.j$B$O$@$a!#(J
      $B4A;z$,Mn$A$k$3$H$b$"$k$7!"Mn$A$J$/$F$b4A;z$,FI$a$J$$?M(J
      $B$+$i$NJ86g$@$i$1$K$J$k!#(J

A1-4. There are many sites that do not receive s.c.j
      s.c.j$B$r<h$C$F$$$J$$%5%$%H$OBt;3$"$k$H;W$&$h!#(J

O13. The statement that "any languages are welcome" cannot be
     effective if character set for these languages are not
     successfully transfered.
     $B!V$I$s$J8@8l$G$b4?7^!W$H$$$&$N$J$i!"$=$l$i$N8@8l$N$?$a$N(J
     $BJ8;z%;%C%H$,E>Aw$G$-$J$1$l$P0UL#$O$J$$$G$7$g$&!#(J

A13-1. We should follow what all FJ groups allow, so this topic
       is not specifically related to fj.life.in-japan.
       $B2f!9$O(Jfj$B$N%0%k!<%W0lHL$HF1$8$d$jJ}$K=>$&$D$b$j$J$s$@$+$i!"(J
       $BJ8;z%;%C%H$NOCBj$OFC$K(Jfj.life.in-japan$B$H4X78$J$$$G$7$g$&!#(J

A13-2. The standard ISO2022 will be sufficient to handle all
       required character sets, so explicitly stating that we
       are following ISO2022 will suffice.  Include this to
       the charter?
       ISO2022$B$H$$$&5,3J$,$"$C$F$3$l$K=>$($PI,MW$JJ8;z=89g$O(J
       $BAw$l$k$N$@$+$i!"$3$l$K=>$&$H$$$&$3$H$K$9$l$P$$$$$N$G$O!#(J
       $B7{>O$KF~$l$^$9$+(J?

O14. Creation of newsgroup targeted for specific class of people
     will not be appropriate.
     Current charter and proposed goal seems to suggest as such.
     Even if all supporters do not think as such, some later
     people might misunderstand.
     $B$"$kFCDj%/%i%9$N?M$@$1$N%0%k!<%W$r:n$k$H$$$&$3$H$,$=$b$=$b(J
     $B$h$/$J$$$H;W$&!#(J
     $B8=>u$N7{>O$HL\E*0F$r8+$k$H$=$&8+$($k!#(J
     $B8=:_Ds0F$7$F$$$k?M$,$=$&;W$C$F$J$/$F$b!">-Mh$=$&8m2r$9$k?M(J
     $B$,=P$k$N$G$O(J?

A14-1. Fj.life.in-japan is not targeted to any specific class of
       people.  Only that the purpose of this group is to gather
       "topics related to foreigners living in japan."
       Fj.life.in-japan$B$OFCDj%/%i%9$N?M$@$1$N%0%k!<%W$G$O$J$/$F!"(J
       $BC1$K!VF|K\$G%/%i%9309q?M$K4XO"$7$?OCBj!W$r=8$a$k$H$$$&$@(J
       $B$1$G$7$g$&(J?

A14-2. Let's modify the charter and proposed goal so that such
       anxiety do not arize.
       $B7{>O$HL\E*0F$r2~NI$7$F!"$=$&$$$&?4G[$,$J$$$h$&$K$7$^$7$g(J
       $B$&$h!#(J

A14-3. How about creating a document "what is fj.life.in-japan"
       and post it periodically?  That will help the correct use
       of the group after creation.
       $B!V(Jfj.life.in-japan$B$H$O2?$+!W$H$$$&J8=q$r:n$C$FDj4|E*$K%](J
       $B%9%H$7$?$i$I$&$G$9$+!#$=$&$7$?$i%0%k!<%W$,@5$7$/;H$o$l$k(J
       $B$N$rB%$;$k$G$7$g$&(J?

O15. What kind of articles, after all, should be gatherd in
     the new group?
     And existing fj groups are really insufficient to these
     kind of articles?
     The reason "non-Japanese articles got very few responses"
     is not appropriate for creating new group even if it does
     hold.
     The new group will effectively become English-only group,
     I'm afraid.  That's the problem.
     $B7k6I!"$I$s$J<oN`$N5-;v$,$3$N%0%k!<%W$K=8$^$k$N$G$7$g$&(J?
     $B$=$7$F!"$=$N5-;v$K$OK\Ev$K4{B8$N(Jfj$B%0%k!<%W$G$OMQ$,B-$j$J$$(J
     $B$N$G$7$g$&$+(J?
     $B!VF|K\8l0J30$N5-;v$KH?1~$,>/$J$$$+$i!W$H$$$&M}M3$G?7$7$$(J
     $B%0%k!<%W$r:n$k$N$O$=$N??56$H$O4X78$J$/$*$+$7$$!#(J
     $B<B<AE*$K1Q8l@lMQ$K$J$k$G$"$m$&%0%k!<%W$r:n$k$N$O$*$+$7$$!#(J

A15-1. Articles in s.c.j will be some representatives.  And
       more effective response will be expected if fj.life.
       in-japan is used.
       If existing fj groups are used, only few response will
       be obtained, as I suppose.       
       s.c.j$B$N5-;v$N$h$&$J$N$,E57?E*$G$7$g$&!#$=$7$F!"(Jfj.life.
       in-japan$B$,$G$-$l$P$b$C$HM-8z$J%U%)%m!<$,F@$i$l$k$G$7$g$&!#(J
       $B$b$74{B8$N(Jfj$B%0%k!<%W$G:Q$^$;$?$H$9$k$H!"H?1~$,$[$H$s$I(J
       $BF@$i$l$J$$$@$m$&$H;d$O;W$&!#(J

A15-2. There are definitely some topics interesting only to
       the foreigners living in Japan, and not to Japanese.
       $B3N$+$K!"F|K\$K$$$k309q?M$N?M$K$H$C$F$OCN$j$?$$$1$I!"(J
       $BF|K\?M$K$O6=L#$r;}$?$l$J$$$h$&$JOCBj$O$"$k$H;W$&!#(J

A15-3. "Non-Japanese post get few responses" is only one of
       the ressons for creating fj.life.in-japan.
       $BF|K\8l0J30$N5-;v$KH?1~$,>/$J$$$+$i!"$H$$$&$N$O(Jfj.life.
       in-japan$B$r:n$m$&$H$9$kM}M3$N(J1$B$D$G$O$"$k$1$I$=$l$@$1$8$c$J$$!#(J

A15-4. Although it is ideal that both Non-Japanese articles and
       Japanese articles are used effectively on all fj groups,
       for the moment we need some "start-up place."  Why not?
       $B:G=*E*$KF|K\8l$G$J$$5-;v$bF|K\8l$N5-;v$b$9$Y$F$N(Jfj$B%0%k!<(J
       $B%W$G$&$^$/5!G=$9$k$N$,M}A[$@$1$I!"$^$:$OH/?J$N$?$a$N%0%k!<(J
       $B%W$,$"$C$F$b$$$$$N$G$O(J?

A15-5. All those discussion --- why many Japanese are against
       the creation of fj.life.in-japan --- should be appropriate
       for fj.life.in-japan.
       $B$3$NJU$N5DO@$9$Y$F(J --- $B$J$s$GB?$/$NF|K\?M$,(Jfj.life.in-japan
       $B$KH?BP$J$N$+!"$H$+(J --- $B$O$^$5$K(Jfj.life.in-japan$B$KE,$7$?OCBj(J
       $B$@$H;W$&!#(J

A15-6. Goto A14-3.

O16. If fj.life.in-japan is created, it will not contribute much
     to the communication between foreigners and Japanese, or
     even obstruct it.
     If foreigners need a place for information exchange, they
     can use whatever existing group.  Officially providing "a
     place for information exchange" might result in someone
     misunderstanding that they were isolated.
     fj.life.in-japan$B$r:n$C$?$H$7$F!"$=$l$,309q?M$HF|K\?M$N8rN.(J
     $B$rB%?J$9$k$H$O;W$($J$$!#$`$7$mK8$2$k$+$bCN$l$J$$!#(J
     $B$b$7309q?M4V$G>pJs8r49$,$7$?$1$l$P!"4{B8$N$I$N%0%k!<%W$G$b(J
     $B<+M3$K;H$C$FM_$7$$!#$=$l$r!V$3$3$,>pJs8r49$N>l$@$h!W$H$$$&(J
     $B$H!">-Mh!V3VN%$7$?!W$H8m2r$9$k?M$,=P$k$N$G$O!#(J

A16-1. The goal of fj newsgroups are not the comminucation
       between foreigners and Japanese, but discussion and
       information exchange between participatns, although
       the group will enhans communication also, I suppose.
       fj$B%K%e!<%9%0%k!<%W$NL\E*$O309q?M$HF|K\?M$N8rN.$8$c$J$/$F!"(J
       $B;22C<T4V$N5DO@$H>pJs8r49$G$7$g!#8rN.$b?<$a$k$H;W$&$1$I!#(J
A16-2. Non-existence of fj.life.in-japan mighit result in
       misunderstanding that we are disclosing fj from
       foreigners.
       $B5U$K(Jfj.life.in-japan$B$,$J$$$3$H$G2f!9$,309q?M$rGS=|(J
       $B$7$F$k$H8m2r$9$k?M$,$$$k$+$bCN$l$J$$$G$7$g!#(J

A16-3. Goto A14-3.

O17. Some people say foreigners in Japan are a kind of minority,
     and we should be kind to minority.  But current news system is
     definitely a media for majority, while ML is appropriate
     media for minority.
     $BF|K\$K:Q$`309q?M$O>.?tGI$@$+$i?F@Z$K!"$H$$$&$N$,$"$C$?$1$I!"(J
     $B%K%e!<%9$OB??tGI$N$?$a$N%a%G%#%"$G$7$g!#(JML$B$,>.?tGI$N$?$a$N(J
     $B%a%G%#%"$8$c$J$$!#(J

A17-1. Majority and minority are relative terms.  In this case,
       foreigners in Japan should be regarded as majority and
       preparing newsgroup is appropriate.
       $B>.?t$H$+B??t$H$+$$$&$N$OAjBPE*$JOC$G$7$g!#$3$N>l9g$OF|K\(J
       $B$K=;$s$G$$$k309q?M$H$$$&$N$O==J,B??tGI$G!"%0%k!<%W$r:n$k(J
       $B$N$bE,@Z$@$H;W$&!#(J

# So, if you are going to post articles about this issue, please
# state explicitly your permission to translate the articles.
# $B$H$$$&$o$1$G!"$3$NOCBj$K$D$$$FEj9F$5$l$kJ}$O5-;v$NCf$KK]Lu5v2D(J
# $B$NI=L@$r4^$a$FD:$1$k4n$P$7$$$H;W$$$^$9!#(J

# I have summrized this from many people's articles, which I cannot
# afford to mention one by one.  I appreciate all people contributed
# to this discussion.
# $B$3$N%5%^%j!<$OB?$/$NJ}$N5-;v$r85$K$7$F$$$^$9$,!"855-;v$NNL$,KDBg(J
# $B$J$?$a0l!9;2>H$r<($9$3$H$O$G$-$^$;$s$G$7$?!#5DO@$K;22C$7$F2<$5$C(J
# $B$?A4$F$NJ}$K46<U$$$?$7$^$9!#(J
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Newsgroups: fj.news.group