From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: "No Statistics" does NOT mean "No Problem Exists," Larry!
X-To: ADRIENNE REGARD
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:00:00 GMT

regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes...
>In article <1992Dec24.120032.1855@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will S
>eeves) writes:
>>LM>[Steeves shows no evidence]
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ??
>>Larry, do I really *need* "statistics"?  Indeed, what kind of "statistics"
>>did the early "Pro-Choice" activists use?  There were no statistics made as
>>to the number of women who were unwillingly pregnant, because the Powers
>>That Be, didn't see it as a problem.  So in those days, all that they could
>>do, was marshal up personal stories from individual women.

>Scuse, please, but not all of us buy your revisionist view of history.

>Do you have any basis for your claim that pro-choice activists said anything
>on the order of "do I really *need* 'statistics'?"


Please do not misinterpret what I said.  I did not say that they said
anything on the order of the above, though I *did* say that it would
have been difficult to prove their point, had they been asked to provide
Officially Sanctioned Statistics to prove their point.


>Or was it rather a case
>at the time that BECAUSE of invalid and dangerous laws, valid statistics
>were nearly impossible to come by?

Ha!  *I* could say the same thing about the situation TODAY!  Just because
the times serve your agenda *now*, does not mean that they will *always*
do so...


>But let me answer your question:

>No, you, personally, Mr. Will Steeves, do not 'need' statistics.  You will
>not shrivel up and die tomorrow without statistics.  However, GIVEN the bulk
>of anecdotal evidence against your position, and your handful of anecdotal

And need I remind you that there is a "bulk" of anecdotal evidence against
*your* position as well?


>evidence for your position, you *do* need statistics to convince any thinking
>person that there is a real tangable human problem that your position address-
>es and solves.  Without such, anecdotal evidence alone makes your position
>look pretty weak, and you aren't likely to make much headway.

Okay fine, pay for a study and try to prove me wrong!


>>I *have* shown *many* stories of individuals
>>who have been forced to be parents.  Is this not *enough* for you?  Then, what
>>is?

>Ah, but others have *many* *many* stories of women and children who have been
>promised support and then were DENIED it.  And there *are* statistics of
>the number of children who live in poverty, and the likelihood of one's
>standard of living dropping below the poverty line without the financial
>support of the father.

>So, you get to draw your own conclusions, Will.  So far, you aren't gathering
>much support.                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not from *you*, perhaps.  And remember this - *your* agenda can't get much
stronger, as it is already supported by a very large movement, ie., one
new supporter won't make a hill of beans difference.  However, with every
new supporter on *our* side, we continue to grow in relative leaps and
bounds.  Also be aware that the National Coalition of Men is planning a
court challenge against paternity suit laws.   I don't expect to win the
first major battle, any more than your side expected to win *its* first
major battle, but even so, a defeat will still mean victory ; it will
bring more publicity to bear.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Gravity: It's more than just a fragrance.  It's the LAW!"
   - Will Steeves, President, GOiDS "R" We, Inc.

 * SLMR 2.1a * The Borg assimilated my race & all I got was this T-shirt
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism