HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz)
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:42:00 GMT

silverman@ilvc.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman @ Flight Test Instrumentation Lab) writes:

>I suspect that the reason we castigate the Poles is that we compare their 
>response with that of the Danes.

>The majority of the Death Camps were built in Poland, and the Poles, if they 
>didn't actively assist the Nazis, at least they didn't resist as much as the 
>Danes did.  The Danes, on the other hand, actively resisted the Nazis.  So did 
>the Dutch.  Anne Frank, for example, was hidden in Holland.

>Jeff Silverman
>Boeing Commercial Airplane.

Dear Jeff,

Your best defense is to plead ignorance. Otherwise, people may suspect
some ulterior motive, or worse still, some brain problems,

For your info:
- the Danes did not resist as much as Poles did, not only militarily, but
even in terms of collaboration.

- the Danes did nothing that would justify your "actively resisted" claim.
- by contrast, the Dutch did, but only when the Allies were around the
	corner (and probably wisely so).

- Anne Frank was hidden in Holland, but for how long?
  And how many Jews do you think were hidden in Poland?

  Overall, you seem to overlook the fact that there were more Jews in
  some random town like Bialystok than in both Denmark and Holland
  combined (I may be wrong, slightly).

  Happy learning, young man,

  W. Dobosiewicz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca
Subject: Showering on Shabat/Yom Tov
Originator: wc4209@innis
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:05:31 GMT

Anyone know the halacha regarding either full showers or just hair
washing on Shabbat and/or Yom Tov?

Is there a difference re laws of Shabbat to those of Yom Tov?
Thanks

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Prejudging?  (Was Re: Holocaust)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:03:57 GMT

In <1992Oct14.213845.630@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>There is a Talmudic dictum: AL TADUN ET CHAVRECHA AD SHETAGIA LIMKOMO (don't
>pre-judge anyone until you yourself have been through what he's been through).

Does that dictum apply to those contemplating inter-marriage?

Seriously, the problem with these types of sayings is that people seem to
pick and choose when they apply.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: jewish resistance against nazis
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:40:35 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <92289.0029592893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> ^[corrigible <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>I've been arguing with a colleague of mine about Jews during the war.
>He asks why, for example the 1 million Jews of Hungary didn't launch an
>uprising against the Nazis since there were (according to him) less than
>200 SS soldiers supervising the deportation of the Jews. He says that after
>the Warsaw ghetto uprising was crushed there was no doubt as to German designs
>on the Jews and the Hungarian Jews should have revolted.

>I have argued about the culture and psychology of oppression as well as the
>apparant futility of an uprising of what was after all a national minority.
>I am not very familiar with the facts however and not well equipped to
>effectively counter his argument. He says he gets his facts from _Escape from
>Aushwitz_ by Dr Rudolf Vrba. Can anyone more familiar with the period help me
>by providing arguments and facts, Thank you.

Perhaps you should ask your colleague:

--How many Hungarian Jews even *knew* of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising?
--How many other troops (German and Hungarian) were in Hungary,
and what restrictions were placed on the movements of Jews?
--What does Vrba say about the situation in Hungary?
--How easy is hindsight?

Roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:21:29 GMT



Just a couple of others:
1. Carthage: Qiryat Hadash (New Town)
2. Toledo  : Toldot        (Generations)
--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:07:50 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Keywords: religion hyproctite rubbish

In article <1992Oct12.001927.4016@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.233649.4662@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>
>>It is unfortunate that such anti-Semitic dribble, right away, has
>>to be introduced into a discussion of a Christian fundamentalist's
>>problem in dealing with non-Christian Scouting religious awards.
>>
>Stan,
>  The issue is that someone posted an article to rec.scouting expressing
>a sincere, heartfelt religious delemma regarding what he saw as a 
>potential conflict between his religious values and the practices of
>the BSA. While most respondents acknowledged his delemma and tried
>to help him find a positive solution to his problem. A few insisted
>on pillorying him, hurling epithets like "hipoctite" and "rubbish".
>What I was trying to  point out to  one  of the worst of these was
>that religious intolerance takes many forms and can be viewed from
>many prospectives. If you are not going to help someone to find
>a positive solution you should just BUTT OUT! If this makes me
>anti-Semitic, in you book, so be it. With our many discussions
>on various topics, I would have thought better.
 
Bravo Donald, but apparently you haven't really had the opportunity 
to "debate" an issue that touches Stan's religious beliefs' before, 
and in that realm he is quite staunchly unbending, including not giving
others any benefit of the rights he has under our COnstitution, namely
freedomof religion and equal rights.  Not that he has necessarily taken 
any away from anyone, but he will not grant them to people he considers 
immoral because of his religion.  I don't think Stan understands the meaning
of the words "To help other people at all times" fully and completely. 
To put it succinctly, to help OTHER people at ALL TIMES.  That includes
provideing services and tolerance when it comes to differing opinions.

WWW
Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:45:05 GMT

mkrawitz@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Marc Krawitz) writes:
>  I am not saying that it is wrong, or racist to marry
>other Jews, I am only saying that Jews (particularly non-religious Jews
>like myself) have a right to marry anyone they wish.  Is that not a
>fundamental right in any democracy?

Apparently not.  In this democracy, for instance, one cannot marry
a person of the same sex, generally.  One may also not marry a person
already married to someone else.  I am not claiming that these "rules"
should be changed, just that they do not support your statement on
fundamental rights in a democracy.  The only fundamental right I can
see in a democracy is the right to vote, or at least to be represented.
And even that is not universal, unless of course we restrict ourselves
to pure democracies, which are only theoretical.

>If the idea of intermarriage
>represents some kind of irrelevant, extremist philosophy, than why
>is the intermarriage rate among Jews so high?

Perhaps because there are so many Jews subscribing to irrelevant,
extremist philosophies.  (I may even be including myself.)

The existence of a phenomenon does not legitimize the "philosophy"
behind it.

-Don Gertler

PS  Marc, we began a discussion some time ago.  You suggested continuing
    it via email, since you felt net readers were largely uninterested in
    it.  I believe I email-ed my response to you then, but I have yet to
    hear your views.  Is it possible that I never responded?  If so, let
    me know.  I'd like to keep it going.  Thanks.
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur Question
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:31:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <CPLS13-091092080522@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
>In article <29710@ursa.bear.com>, millman@indigo.bear.com (Phillip Millman)
>wrote:
>> I was under the impression that we didn't were leather shoes on Yom Kippur.
>> But at shul I noticed some men wearing Rockports (Rubber Soles).  When
>> I inquired they said that the law is for leather soles on shoes.
>> 
>> Which is right and wear does the law come from?
>
>I don't know the exact origin, but the wearing of shoes with ANY leather at
>all is prohibited (at least in halachic circles!)

Even among my orthodox friends I find a wide mix of mihag and
halacha.

Most agree that shoes with leather should not be worn.  Now the
differences:

  - Some (usually quoting Talmud) say the reason is because leather
    shoes were more comfortable; and afflict our souls (not soles)
    includes wearing less comfortable shoes.

    Today, even though shoes with no leather can be found which are
    more comfortable even than leather shoes, the "leather shoes
    are more comfortable" rule still applies.

  - Some say that as animals are G-d's creatures, no leather should
    be worn since animals had to die to provide the leather.

    Others say Nonsense, a leather belt can be worn, just not
    leather shoes.

  - Then there's the color.  Many people wear white shoes -- some
    people even wear shoes that have leather in them!  So far as
    I can tell, white shoes is minhag.  White shoes with leather is
    self-defeating.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chipmunk city
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:47:38 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Could the two of you insult each other in e-mail where we don't have
to look at it?  OK?
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur Question
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:58:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.193104.16814@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

Quoting somebody else:

>>I don't know the exact origin, but the wearing of shoes with ANY leather at
>>all is prohibited (at least in halachic circles!)

I believe that leather ornamentation (stripes on running shoes, for example)
over cloth construction is permissible.

>  - Then there's the color.  Many people wear white shoes -- some
>    people even wear shoes that have leather in them!  So far as
>    I can tell, white shoes is minhag.  White shoes with leather is
>    self-defeating.

I believe that this minhag dates from the days when sneakers were all
white.

I cannot believe that anyone would say that those great tai chi shoes from
Chinatown might be inferior just because they're black.

Aryk 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Heleocentric Cosmosology
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:14:49 GMT

In article <IepT_hi00WBM44poVw@andrew.cmu.edu> jg3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Ari Goldstein) writes:

>My question is this, how did Judaism deal with
>this then and what is the common viewpoint now?  (ie. How do Jews
>reconcile the fact the world does not revolve about man)
>
>What I am really looking for is twofold,
>    1 - Official Jew Viewpoint
>    2 - Your Personal Viewpoint

For the Official Jew Viewpoint, you'll have to ask somebody else.  My personal
viewpoint is that the Torah need not be reconciled with science, since it does
not purport to be a scientific text.  Judaism is strong enough not to have
to worry about changes in the scientific universe.

>I just want to state that I am not asking you to do my homework for me
>because though I do need to do a paper I think the subject is going to
>be on how come people thought the world was flat when Aristotle pointed
>out it was a sphere 2000 years earlier.  

I have some notes which tell me that the Jerusalem Talmud, in the tractate
Avodah Zarah, quotes Rav Yonah as describing the earth as "like a ball",
and the same source quotes Ravah as calculating the earth's widest
circumference.  The Yesod Olam calculated the earth's circumference to
24,000 miles, which is close to correct (Israeli wrote the Yesod Olam in
the 13th century, I think).

I think these notes come from a book called _Rabbinical Mathematics_, but
I am not certain -- they have been reposing in the bottom of my tallit bag
for about ten years.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew Computing!
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:16:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <63@MECHANICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> jmarkus@electrical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone could tell me where to find (ie FTP) a program which
>would allow me to do any or all of the following:
>
>1.      Display hebrew ASCII text on a VGA monitor
>2.      Edit and type hebrew text on a i386
>3.      Print hebrew text on a dot matrix printer.
>
>As I do not recieve news at my account here, could you please EMAIL me the
>responses.
>


You can get all three of the above by ftping to israel.nysernet.org
and looking in the israel/hebrew-software/msdos directory.  You can
also subscribe to soc.culture.jewish as a e-mail list by sending
a message to listserv@israel.nysernet.org with a single line in it
saying:

SUB scj Jeff Markus

Obviously someone else would have to substitute their name for Jeff's
if they were to subscribe.

Chaim


Chaim R. Dworkin
chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)
Subject: greetings
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:11:06 GMT

Chag S'maich Succos to all concerned
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:51:57 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <emc.718312151@noonian> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>In <1apasrINN84@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>>   Practically NONE of the characteristics of the Messiah as they
>>are stated in the bible can be found in Jesus.  
>
>Where in the bible do you find the name Messiah? 

The word is "Moshiach", which means "he who has been anointed".  Many
non-messiannic people have had this title.  Many kings have, as have
some important people.  When the prophets discuss THE Moshiach, they
mean the Messiah we all speak of.

There are some references in Isaiah, and elsewhere.

>>The conditions of the Messianic Age have not come to pass.  
>
>Where do you find the expression "Messianic Age"?

What else would you call the time of the Messiah?  Nowhere on my
calendar does it call today a school day, but I know that it is one
anyway because that's when the school is open.  By that same token,
whenever the Messiah comes, it will be the messianic age.  By
definition.  

>I will ask again.  What are the properties of the Jewish Messiah?
>(This is not the same as asking, what happens when the Messiah is
>on earth, i.e world events.  Rather, it is asking what kind of
>a person/being is he?  Where does he come from?  If he is human,
>what makes him special?).

Look back to the very start of this thread (if it's still around).  A
few that I can recall are:

1) World peace will arrive after a huge war that will purge the sins
   from the planet.  Note that people may not die - those who repent
will be forgiven as always.

2) The Jewish nation of Judea will be re-established and the Temple
   (in Jerusalem on Mt. Moriah) will be rebuilt.

3) The nations of the world will recognize this Messiah as being who
   he is, and they will recognize Judea as the Holy Nation it is.
This will be WITHOUT COERCION!

There are a few others, but Jesus did not bring about any of these.

The Church explains it in the following way:

1) Wait for the Second Coming for eternal peace and Judgement day.
   The Christians are deathly afraid of Judgement day.  I don't know
why, though.  If it is what they say it is, they should get by just
fine. 

2) The Church and Rome have supplanted Judea and Jerusalem

3) They omitted the without coercion part.  They have gotten the world
   to recognize Jesus by threatening death to those who don't comply,
and by acting on the threats.

-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
From: israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Whence the minyan?
Date: 9 Oct 92 06:18:24 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <1992Oct8.223605.10142@cas.org> rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:

>In article <Bvt8nt.CLq@acsu.buffalo.edu>, ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymour
>Axelrod) writes:
>|> What is the origin of the requirement for 10 men?  I recently told someone
>|> who asked that it was post-biblical, but I am now not so sure.  In any case,
>|> |> where is it written?  Thanks.
>|> 
>|> 
>|> Seymour Axelrod, Psychiatry, State University of New York at Buffalo
>|> PTYAXEL@UBVMS.BITNET                    PTYAXEL@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

>After the 12 spies returned from spying out Eretz Yisrael, only two (Joshua
>and Nachshon) brought positive reports; the other 10 brought back a negative
>one.  God then referred to the latter group with the word `eda (congregation,
>assembly).  It was then taken as the minimum number for a congregation for
>prayer.

This is indeed the scriptural source that was later adduced for a congregation
being 10.  As for the requirement of 10 in order to do various parts of the
service, that's certainly not mentioned in the written Torah, as the
synagogue itself is not mentioned.  One Talmudic source is Brachot 21b.

>-- 
>Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
>(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
>(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
>			Ein navi be`iro.            |

-- 
Robert Israel                            israel@math.ubc.ca
Department of Mathematics             or israel@unixg.ubc.ca
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Y4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:59:47 GMT

In article <XVRRBDYX@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu
(Melanie Wertz) writes:

[long disccusion as to why Judaism and Orthodoxy in particular are
 sexist deleted for sake of brevity]

>There is no "rational" explanation as to why I feel sexism as defined by
>Western culture is wrong.  There is no "rational" reason to believe the
>Torah is true, either!


Melanie,

   You are right in pointing out that there is no rational reason
   to believe that the Torah is true. However, in this discussion
   you are in no way better than the Orthodox people you care
   to criticize so much: They operate on one set of feelings and
   you on another. How do you expect this discussion to ever become
   constructive ? It is likely to degenerate into no more of an
   exchange of feelings between all sides ( including Conservatives
   & Reforms ).

Dov
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17307 soc.culture.polish:3061
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: sexism
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:24:49 GMT

dg = gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
fy = fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)

fy: I certainly shouldn't be put into a separate section with other gay men.
fy: I'd both distract and be distracted!

dg: I guess this proves that a homosexual shul is problematic.

Does it also prove that the presence of a homosexual in any shul is
problematic?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem