From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: (Was: Tantra)  Now: Recantra
Date: 25 Jul 92 07:32:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <joshua.711475817@coombs>, joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) writes...
>erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>>oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:

[original me:]
>>: and  it could have been other than an enochian angel that 
>>: whispered in Kelley's ear that a swap was necessary.  Just a 
>>: theory.  I do not mean to imply anything negative about Kelley, (and 
>>: I'm related to a ton of them both with and without the extra "e") 
>>: but all possibilities should be considered.

[josh:]
>well, if you read the actual dee diaries, you will realize that
>(a) kelly didn't much like the idea (he was not much interested
>in women to begin with), (b) neither of the wives liked the idea,
>in fact the only person involved who was all for it was john dee
>himself, (c) kelly *really* did not much like the scrying sessions.
>dee was supporting him, his wife, his brother and his family and
>if he just up and decided to leave he would be condemning all of
>these folks to a kind of grinding poverty none of us can really
>conceive of. I will never in my life understand how people can
>read someone's opinion of someone else's opinion of something that
>happened 400 years ago and figure they know all there is to know
>about it. If either of you have read the actual primary sources,
>please feel free to say so, and please exlain exactly how you
>came to the conclusions that you came to.

***recant on*** I did not read any of the original sources and I 
know very little about the entire situation.
***recant off***  

Probably would not have mattered if I had read the original sources.  
With few exceptions, I tend not to believe much of what I read or 
much of what I'm told, especially about the esoteric, regardless of 
the authority of the speaker or writer.  You being one of these 
exceptions is probably the reason I'm posting this (read: eating 
this) at all.

I tend to go by my own experience, however egotistic that 
may be.  The alternative theory I suggested (Kelley having the hots 
for Dee's wife was the true inspiration behind the wife swapping) 
was derived solely from my experience of human nature.  My tendency 
is to look for the most mundane explanations first.  I do *not* 
recant this as a *possible* alternative theory. 

***Recant on***   
At first I thought you were just overreacting to a sacred cow attack 
***uprising on*** and there are far too many sacred cows around here 
as it is, especially of the thelemic variety. ***uprising off***  
But after careful consideration and rereading my 2 posts on this topic 
I admit that I am guilty of presenting my theory, at one point, as 
more definite than just another alternative theory.  
***Recant off***

>I'll note that the quality of the workings went up exponentially after
>the 'wife swapping' incident. 

Even if there were unflattering things involved, ***recant on*** and 
I don't know that there were,***recant off*** this does not invalidate 
for me the quality of the workings - if I were ever to read them.  
I tend not to examine motivations behind divine inspiration (or any 
inspiration) too closely, and do not believe it is required for such 
motivations to always be "good".  The experience is enough, or in this 
case, experiencing the results of someone else's experience.  I refer 
you to the sorcorer's explanation, which was recently posted 
***uprising on*** and mainly ignored ***uprising off***.  

>perhaps someday I'll post some examples.

That would be interesting.  Please do.

>>: I read somewhere that Dee's wife was much prettier than Kelley's

>you read it in jaques sadoul's alchemy book that you sent me.
>he's just being french when he says this; there is no evidence one way 
>or another (I'll note that joanna dee had had a bunch of kids by this 
>time, though.)

I thought of Kelley having the hots for Dee's wife as a possible 
explanation long before I read it in a book, though the book gave the 
additional information ***recant on*** based on no apparent source  
***recant off*** that Dee's wife was prettier.  ***recant on*** 
If you say the book sucks, it probably does. ***recant off***  
(Don't think I would have sent you anything *really* good, do you?) :)  

***uprising on***
However, I strongly encourage everyone to send Josh any old alchemy 
books they come across, even if they do not meet his scholarly 
standards, and they probably won't.
***uprising off***

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick