From: rspeirs@javelin.sim.es.com (Ron Speirs)
Subject: Re: Grainy B&W film?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:17:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.181443.1595@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>In article <246@metran.UUCP> jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts) writes:
>>zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes:
>>: 
>>: I have 2 rolls of Ektachrome Infrared AERO 8443 IE135, and a roll of INFRARED
>>: ( IR135 ) in my pocket. Any one got a data sheet for the IR? Or a E-6 mod
>>: for E-3 films?
>>
>>The newer Ektachrome IR (process E-4) can be processed with the Kodak Slide
>>Hobby Pac as long as the temperature is at or below 74F.  Maybe that will
>>work for yours as well.  What's the difference between E-3 and E-4?
>
>There was an article in Darkroom Photography a while back about hardening
>pretreatments to allow E-4 materials to be processed in E-6 at normal 
>(100.4 F) temperatures.
>
NOT QUITE!  The article in *Darkroom & Creative Camera Techniques* allowed
processing at 85F with hardeners, not 100F.  Here is the information from
the article:


E-4 information:

The simplest information on E-4 was in Darkroom & Creative Camera
Techniques magazine, Nov/Dec 1989, page 2.  They had previously tried
processing E-4 film in E-6 chemistry, but at 70F.  This took a lot of
time and the results were questionable.  They then recommended using
a prehardener and neutralizer before the first developer, and then
doing the E-6 process as usual at 85F.  There hasn't been any comment
since last year in the magazine.

E-4 Prehardener
	Water			800 mL
	Sodium Sulfate		140 g
	Formaldehyde 38%	 30 mL
	Potassium Bromide 	 16 g
	Water to make		  1 L

E-4 Neutralizer
	Water			800 mL
	Hydroxylamine Sulfate	 18 g
	Potassium Bromide	 20 g
	Sodium Acetate		  7 g
	Glacial Acetic Acid	  7 mL
	Sodium Sulfate		 50 g
	Water to make		  1 L

These two solutions may be reused.

Most of the chemicals should be available from:
	Lauder Photographic, 2650B Mercantile Dr.
	  Rancho Cordova, CA 95670, 916-638-1225
	Zone V, Stage Rd, S. Strafford VT 05070, 802-765-4508
	Tri-Ess Sciences, 1020 W. Chestnut St.
	  Burbank, CA 91506, 213-245-7685

Rapid Fixer should be available from your photo dealer.
Formaldehyde is available at the drug store.

Schedule at 85F:
	Prehardener	3 min
	Neutralizer	1 min
	First Developer and remaining steps per standard E-6
	  directions for 85F.

The E-6 kit specifically recommended in the article was the Kodak
 E-6 Hobby Pak Kit.

Obviously, these aren't official E-4 formulas, but they should work OK.  The 
biggest problem with E-4 film is that the emulsion isn't prehardened, and it 
gets too soft at normal E-6 temperature (100F).  There possibly could be some
color shift, but I would guess you are wanting to do Ektachrome Infrared, and
if that is so, how would you know a color shift if you saw it??? :)

I have some other E-4 formulas in a book dating to 1979, but they seem 
unnecessarily complex and expensive.  

>E-3 doesn't use chemical reversal - you have to re-expose the film to
>reverse it. Lots of fun...
>
Actually, E-4 and E-6 films *can* also be reversed by light exposure, that
is if you want to......

Ron Speirs, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation, Salt Lake City, Utah