HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Re: Looking for best prices on tents, bags, stoves, etc.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Reply-To: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: usa
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:51:22 GMT

|> Be aware that none of the articles sold through the NF Outlet carry a
|> warrenty.  I had a rather heated argument with them because the hang tag
|> that came with my bibs had a warrenty on it.  A first they were not
|> going to honor it but I politely reminded them that most states carry
|> laws which would force them to.  They fixed my bibs free of charge after
|> that and were very good about it.
|> 
|> North Face was one of the best warrenty policies of any company I have
|> ever delt with.  The reduction in price at the Outlet store reflects
|> alot of the cost to warrenty ther products.  Which I would guess
|> to be about 20% of the retail cost.
|> 
|> Cheers,
|> 
|> Allen R. Sanderson
|> 
|> Salt Lake City, Oootah
|> 

I was told by the salesman that I could get warranty service at any
of the NF outlets in the country.  But I did realized that all the
products sold at the factory outlet have the O in the nOrth face label
painted in black as identification as sales items.

Kelvin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: odonnell@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (John M. O'Donnell)
Subject: Mountain magazine
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:47:00 GMT

Mountain was an English magazine, which went out of business a few months ago.
The information section is now handled by High - the magazine of the British
Mountaineering Council.  High is relatively easy to find over here in the US.
If you want mailing addresses eg. for back copies of either of these I can get
them for you (send me some EMAIL or another post). 

John.
From: djw@hodgkin.mc.duke.edu (David Wendt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: hiking from inn to inn
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:27:41 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <8JAN93.13214741@pattie.wellesley.edu> lrosenwald@pattie.wellesley.edu writes:
>Hi - please excuse me if this is an inappropriate question - I'm new.
>I live outside of Boston and have four days or so in March or May
>for a hike - but prefer inn-to-inn, British style, to camping.  Anybody
>have information about this?  Thanks - Larry Rosenwald.


there is an organization in vermont called inns along the way, the state
chamber of commerce could point you in the right direction.  I looked into
the scene when I was dating a non-camper/hiker.  I believe there were 
8 to 10 inns affiliated in this group.  The downside is they are rather
expensive, so if you are looking for B&B prices, these are not the places
to go (avg cost 100.oo per person per night)

						David
From: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu (Brian Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Firewatch
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:01:21 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

  hello.  I am interested in working at a firewatch station over the
summer but I don't know where to begin to look.  Can anybody out there
help me?  What are the qualifications, wages, locations, etc.?

				Brian


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brianw@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Brian Williams)
Subject: altitude sickness
Reply-To: brianw@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Brian Williams)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:10:25 GMT

>> There is an article in the latest American Health magazine on AS.  It 
>> seems that aerobic capacity does not lessen your chances  of being stricken.
>> Athletes in good shape are just as susceptible as anyone else.  I haven't
>> had time to read the article fully, I suggest that you may want to pick
>> up a copy.	

>I can attest to this.  A couple years ago, I went from Houston (elev. ~50') to a	camp site in the Medicine Bow mountains (elev. ~11,000') in a period of about 2
>days.  I woke up late at night with the worst headache I have ever experienced.
>When I stood up, I started vomiting.  This persisted until I went down to a lower

Years ago I tried going up Mt.Whitney with a friend of mine, who NEVER works
out and smokes cigarettes daily. I being an ex 2:30 marathoner but still in
somewhat good shape at this time I could still run a mile in 5:20 and swim
a mile in 25 minutes. I was running about 30 miles a week in the months
prior to our trip; was reeling off 36 minute 10k's no problem.

I got altitude sickness at around 14,000- didn't quite make it all the way
to the top of Whitney. Had to come down 2,000 foot before I felt better.

My friend made it all the way. Didn't get sick. Felt OK.

?????????????????????

============================================================================
From: elwood@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Elisha Polomski)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Superstition Mts/Naive Desert Hike
Date: 11 Jan 1993 23:50:38 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Desert, Arizona, Superstition Mts


Just thought I'd share my most recent hiking experience with all you folks,
and admit how foolish I was!!

I have been hiking various areas in the US and Central America for about 10 years.


I recently went to Arizona and decided to try hiking in the
Superstition Mts in Tonto National Forest East of Phoenix.
This is a spectacular and very rugged area of deserts, mesas, and mts.
Its denizens include Saguaro cacti, cholla, bears, and mt. lions.

It had been drizling lightly for a day before we went. Being used to
East coast downpours we called it "wimpy rain" and proceeded on the hike.

We crossed several small streams, until at about the halfway point
we encountered a raging White Water Class river! This whole area is usually
BONE DRY. The trail crossed this torrent. There was absolutley NO WAY
we could cross it. Huge boulders were being moved downstream by the force of the 
current.


Sadly we turned back only to find that the small streams we had crossed earlier
were now impassible torrents!!

We then spent about 2 hours hiking in the backcountry fighting various cacti, and 
trying to find an area where we could wade accross the RIVER. 
Unfortunately the river met another torrent in a canyon upstream. We were at this 
point getting a bit desperate, considering spending the night, and worrying that 
no-one knew which trailhead we took(Tonto Forest is quite LARGE).

Luckily for us it stopped raining for about an hour and the RIVER was barely
crossable. 

We made our soggy way back to the car and to the airport in time to catch our 5pm
flight and be thankful that we weren't stuck overnight.

I admit, we were very foolish to go hiking in the desert in a rainstorm!
I do have to comment that our guide book(Arizona Hikes by Bill Weir) had many
warnings about hiking in the desert in the SUMMER during thunderstorms, but little 
mention of the possibility of our trail being turned into a raging torrent
in the winter!


Despite our dangerous venture, I would love to return to the area when its dry!
Its quite spectacular and unworldly! Weavers Needle was visible from the trail,
and we encountered a wildcat in the bushes along the way!!

I guess they don't call it Superstition Mts for nothing!
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Food Dehydrators and Food for Backp
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:58:05 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1449600058@igc.apc.org>, Ecology Center <ecologycntr@igc.apc.org> writes:
> 
> I second the endorsement of the Harvest Maid dehydrator. 
> 
> It costs about 80, around these parts (sf bay area), but that's about
> the cost of two weeks worth of flavorless packaged backpacking food. And
> with the drier, you get to make things like:

If anyone has one used they want to sell I'd be interested in buying
it.  BTW, any places to pick it up mail-order?
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
             Enlightenment Happens?
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9985 rec.photo:23155
From: bu890@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Segal)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: backpacking with medium format cameras
Date: 7 Jan 1993 13:22:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


No big mountains around here...but when hiking I carry my Hasselblads in a
Lowe-Pro Phototrekker...it works just fine.

brian
From: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Reply-To: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 5 Jan 93 05:48:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.182248.46095@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|> My wife and are going to make some bivi sacs and are looking for
|> polartec('ish doesn't have to be polartec if similiar low-weight warm
|> quick drying...) and goretex fabric suppliers.  I've looked around the
|> Kansas City area and don't like the fabric that I did find (only
|> couple places)  I've seen the polartect for about $9 a yard but never
|> goretex.  
|> 
|> Anyone know of fabric suppliers for goretex or polartec that might do
|> mailorder?  Thanks again everyone...
|> -- 
|> jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
|> James Miller
|> 

Talk about polartec.  I was lucky to find 2 stores in Penang,
Malaysia that sold polartec jacket 2 months ago on a trip home.
It was made locally, w/o the polartec label, and of
polartec 300 fabric.  Since it was M$20 (equivalent to US$8),
I bought 4 of them - for my family.  If you have time shopping
in any Asia, you may be surprized at how cheap these things are.

I also bought a Mag Light (2 AA batteries) for about
US$6.50, a head lamp for about US$10, in Singapore.


Kelvin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bejohnst@ellis.uchicago.edu (blaine everett johnston)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Reply-To: bejohnst@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:36:06 GMT

In article <JRICHARD.93Jan7143812@sol.ulowell.edu> jrichard@sol.ulowell.edu (John 'MacGyver' Richardson) writes:
>The latest AMC Appalachia includes a story of a man who died of "sever
>cold" (one of many on the mountain) on a Mt. Washington winter climb.  
>It is not to be attempted without proper gear and even with proper gear 
>it can be risky.  Winter climbs should be attempted by _experienced_ 
>people only!  

>BTW: I can speak from experience.  I got hypothermia on Mt. Washington
>about 15 years ago.  And we were prepared for a winter climb (in the fall).
>

  C'mon guys, it's not that bad.  Climbing Washington in the winter is a lot
of fun.  If winter climbs were attempted only by experinced people,
there'd be no experienced people.

  O.K., I do admit being a little unprepared in a rhime ice storm with 20
foot visibility in August...

  The ridge approaches to Washington really can give you a chance to be
blasted by wind, so they are probably best avoided on a first trip.
There's a route which heads down to the northeast which is a bit of
a rough climb in winter.  This really leaves only the route near
Tuckerman's as an easy winter ascent route.

  I climbed Washingtion last Janurary, and at that time, crampons and
an ice axe were necessary in order to keep from sliding down Tuckerman's.
Of course, it had rained the previous day.  Reports from others indicate
that four foot plus snow drifts are not terribly uncommon, so be prepared
to turn back.  Summit conditions were 20 degrees and ~100 mph winds.  But
winds were only about 50 mph down a little bit.
The Tuckerman's route really has a rather short time
not at least partially in a protected valley.

  Full windgear with good insulation and no cotton should be considered 
essential winter gear, along with goggles.  Exposed flesh will get frostbite,
as may anything without windgear (such as the wool pants listed by someone
above).  I skipped windgear for my head
and was a little cold, but O.K.  (The head can radiate a lot of heat without
damage).  
Mountaineering mittens and neoprene face masks are strongly recommended. 
Your boot should be at least as well insulated as Sorels, and plastic boots
or mouse boots are recommended.

  It's a lot of fun.  If you particularly mind being knocked over by winds
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:12:14 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1993Jan11.135645.28611@bmerh85.bnr.ca> paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
>
>There is an article in the latest American Health magazine on AS.  It 
>seems that aerobic capacity does not lessen your chances  of being stricken.
>Athletes in good shape are just as susceptible as anyone else.  I haven't
>had time to read the article fully, I suggest that you may want to pick
>up a copy.

You should post the citation or mail it to Eugene for inclusion in the FAQ. 

There was a good article in Scientific American last fall, which is cited 
in the FAQ along with several other books. 

What you say is consistent with what I remember.  Highly trained climbers 
can get it, and it can start at altitudes as low as 9000 feet.  Sci.Am. 
had a table showing symptoms and likelyhood of getting them at various 
altitudes.  There are ski areas where the town is high enough for some 
people to experience problems.  I now believe that some headaches and 
sleep disturbed by rapid heartbeat that I have had when I have flown 
rather than driven to altitude is a result of the lowest level of 
altitude sickness.  Water (and no alcohol) helps deal with the messed 
up body chemistry that is the cause of the symptoms.  

Thanks for the pointer; I will look for that issue.

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: North Face sleeping bags /PAcks
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:59:10 GMT

Generally I find better deals at the seasonal sales at ordinary
NF stores than the everyday prices at the factory outlets.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently? (& Shasta partner seeking)
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:16:15 GMT

In article <Jan11.203036.10755@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>A question for the net:  If one stays completely within ones limits, is
>there any adventure?

In my experience, human beings don't have static 'limits'.  What you're
referring to as a limit is a combination of mental and physical factors
that regarded as an aggregate 'thing' might be different on Monday than it
was on Sunday (a good example of this is the unpredictable [from history]
effect of altitude on an individual).  This point of view kind of negates
the question, sorry about that!

Finding out what your limits are at any particular moment in time may well
be referred to as 'adventure', since you never know (for sure) where they
lie.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pshannon@iapetus.cv.nrao.edu (Paul Shannon)
Subject: Re: London area backcountry possibilities wanted
Organization: nrao
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:42:36 GMT

These two books may help:

  Walker's Britain:  The Complete Pocket Guide to over 240 Walks
                     and Rambles.  Hunter Publishing Company, 1982.
                     ISBN 0-935161-54-6. 

  The National Trust Book of Long Walks in England, Scotland and Wales,
  Adam Nicolson, Harmony Books, 1981.  ISBN 0-517-54509-8

"Long Walks" is a beautiful book describing 10 walks.  From a quick
look at the maps, it looks like the Pilgrim's Way is within easy 
reach of London.  To give you a flavor of the book, here are some
excerpts:

	It begins at Winchester and ends at Canterbury.  For most of
	its length this old road keeps to the relatively well drained
	and sunny south-facing escarpment of the Downs, avoiding 
	both the crest-line woods and the heavy clays fo the Weald
	below.  It has in places been surfaced for cars and in others
	simply erased where great landowners emparked their estates,
	but in the main it heads steadily eastwards, as natural to
	these downs as the ridgeways in Berkshire and Sussex are to
	theirs....

	In prehistoric terms walking from Winchester to
	Canterbury was nothing very significant.  To do so in the
	early Middle Ages, though, meant  going from the capital
	of the kingdom to the centre of the church, from the secular
	to the ecclesiastical hub of power.  After 1170 this journey 
	would have been made as a pilgrimage to the shrine of Thomas 
	a` Beckett.


And from a Washington Post travel article:

	I found two books indispensable:  "Cotswold Way Handbook",
	with mileage chart, suggested walking schedules and details
	on accomodations and camping, and  "The Cotswold Way--A Walker's
	Guide", by Mark Richards, with ... strip maps of the route	
	and line drawings.  For a general guide to long-distance
	walking in England and Wales, Hugh Westacoot's "The Walker's
	Handbook" is a mine of information.  All three are available
	from

		Ramblers' Association
		1-5 Waandworth RD.
		London SW8 2XX
		England

 - Paul
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:40:03 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1if0efINNrg2@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>,
by pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski):
> 
> Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
> that they could share?

I've never done any of the nationally run outings, but one of the members
of our local group has run some of them, and she runs local outings on
occasion as well.

> Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and exciting.

Yes, and the local trips are even less expensive!
> 
> The local chapter is mostly 40+ (nothing wrong with that) and don't have
> a lot in common with late-20yr olds.

The Iowa Chapter seems to be dominated by the 40+ crowd too, and even in
the Iowa City Area Group, where we've got a big college campus, most of
the members are over 30.  Even so, I've had people from other local groups
describe me as typical of the "younger generation" they want to attract,
and I'm over 40 myself (perhaps it's my youthful good looks that attract
their attention, or my beard).

On the other hand, I don't see why age should eliminate common interests!
One of our local members is over 80, but on the last outing we were both
on, he was the first to start up a cliff to see what was up there.  One of
my favorite friends to go on outings with is in her 70's.  She's not much
for long hikes, but she knows all the birds and prairie vegetation that
I don't know, and she's a willing teacher.

We had a speaker recently who likes to volunteer on trail crews around the
country, and he said that the Sierra Club's nationally organized work
sessions tend to be "part time" work, with trail crew work in the morning
and free time or recreational hiking in the afternoons.  He said that
another group, the national walking society or something, has far more
intensive trail maintenance groups where they put in a full day's work
for each day out.

				Doug Jones
				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
				Chair, Iowa City Area Group, Sierra Club
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Looking for best prices on tents, bags, stoves, etc.
Date: 4 Jan 93 09:35:10 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
>
>I just discovered a North Face Factory Outlet at Berkeley, CA,
>located at Gilman (off-ramp from I-80) and 5th St.  All the
>North Face items are sold at a discount price of about 40%.

Be aware that none of the articles sold through the NF Outlet carry a
warrenty.  I had a rather heated argument with them because the hang tag
that came with my bibs had a warrenty on it.  A first they were not
going to honor it but I politely reminded them that most states carry
laws which would force them to.  They fixed my bibs free of charge after
that and were very good about it.

North Face was one of the best warrenty policies of any company I have
ever delt with.  The reduction in price at the Outlet store reflects
alot of the cost to warrenty ther products.  Which I would guess
to be about 20% of the retail cost.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Experience of Montana ?
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:26:03 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1isttbINNqju@news.aero.org> wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen) writes:
>Glacier National Park!
>....   Absolutely breathtaking alpine scenery.  Lots of good
>trails, wildlife.  High, deep-blue glacier-fed lakes and streams with
>lots of fish.  

Weird.  All the glacier-fed lakes I have seen were the color of powdered
rock.  Deep-blue rock powder?
Rock-powder-eating fish must be stoned out of their minds.

	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Reply-To: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:53:36 GMT

evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans) writes:

>I have never heard of anyone getting altitude sickness at 8500 ft
>before, although I guess it's possible.

Yes.  There have been documented cases of pulmonary edema as low as
8000 ft.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pjones@asl.slb.com
Subject: FAQ - does one exist for rec.backcountry
Reply-To: pjones@asl.slb.com
Organization: Schlumberger/Anadrill Sugar Land, TX
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 21:44:44 GMT

Is there an FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for this newsgroup??  I 
asked this a while back and got no answer.  Normally I would take 
this as 'No',  but an FAQ for this group would be extremely useful.
I'll go so far as to say that it might even save inexperienced 
people like me from injury or even death.   An example question might
be:

Q:  How can one avoid grizzly attacks when hiking alone?

A:  Sing Slim Whitman tunes to the bear wen it approaches.  It will
    roll over and fall asleep.

So,  if anyone knows of an FAQ or anything like it,  please let the
rest of us in on the secret.  If anyone is sure that an FAQ does 
not exist,  that is useful also ... I would not post any more messages
asking for it.  Thanks

Phil Jones
pjones@asl.sinet.slb.com  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: samitch@cs.sandia.gov (Scott A. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Firewatch
Organization: Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 16:41:45 GMT


Not all firewatch stations have been replaced.  As of about 
two years ago, there was one still operating near Angora peak
near Fallen Leaf Lake near the town of South Lake Tahoe near
the lake Tahoe itself in CA.  Its on most maps of the area.
I don`t know how to contact them other than hiking up and saying "hi"
to the rangers.

  -  Scott Mitchell

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry