From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: When is a CLI faster than a GUI?
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:27:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <gbhz=jl@rpi.edu> johnsd2@rpi.edu writes:
>
>|> --- GUI VS CLI
>Hoo, this'll be fun. Tell me how you can convert the finder to
>a ->CLI<-, without loosing anything. (not a character based interface,
>character vs graphical is really irrelevant. the is CLI vs GUI);

Perhaps I should have said CBI (character based interface) rather than
CLI.  I may have missed the meaning of CLI. (I'm sure someone will
explain here ;-)

>|> --- MICE VS KEYBOARD
>But what if you don't REMEMBER the command-keys to hit?

It would not matter if you remembered the keys or not.  If they are
displayed on the menu, as they should be, then you wouldn't have to
take your hands off the keyboard (the old time-wasting keyboard to
mouse and back shuffle).
>
>Indeed, there are supposedly studies that show that mousing is faster
>than command-keys because you have to remember stuff to use
>command keys. You just don't remember thinking about it. I expect
>you've heard of that, but I doubt you believe a word of it. :)
>
Have not heard this before.  I would suspect the methodology of any
study showing mice to be faster than keyboards for chosing menu
options.

>|> --- OPEN VS RESTRICTED SYSTEMS
>There is ->NO<- enforcement. There are no verified cases of the
>Apple Thot Police dragging anyone off to the gulag for violating
>the User Interface Guidlines. (there are always rumors tho...)

No direct enforcement, true, but there is defacto enforcement in the
fact that it's too difficult to write to anything but standard OS API
calls.

>But, might I ask how "its GUI" and "the strict enforcement of a
>rigid interface" are distinct? Sounds like you are saying
>"its not the GUI, its just they there's this GUI everyone
>has to use!"

In essence.  Sun has done an excellent job of making all sorts of GUI
front ends available on their platforms without taking away any of the
functionality of the character based backend.

>|> The crux of this argument is: just how much of a trade off are you willing 
>|> to make (flexibility and extensibility vs short learning curve).  Are
>|> you sure you can forever do without the ability to write a batch program 
>|> which can automate 100 points and clicks to get the benefit of a good
>|> looking and consistent interface?
>
>Believe it or not, most people don't need batch jobs like that.
>I agree the facility should be there, but isn't there (yet!), but
>its not that critical.

What you don't know can't hurt you I guess?  If you only use your
computer for word processing, or a very limited number of
applications this may be true.  But why limit your options?  Would you
buy a house without a kitchen because it was easier to keep clean?  I
guess my point is that once you know what can be done with a computer
there's really no going back.  I save hours every week thanks to
Desqview macros and DOS batch files.  If I could do the same on a Mac
that would be great.  
>
>One other point; I agree CLIs exist with more flexibility than
>any GUI I know of, but CLIs have been around, and in constant
>heavy use and develoemend, for a lot longer than GUIs have. Give
>GUIs more time, and watch what happens. They wont stand still.

GUIs _are_ the future!  They are developing quickly and gaining features
at an amazing rate.  Only Apple's GUI is not keeping up with this
explosive growth.

>As for extensibility, I dunno bout that. Some of the things
>Extensions can do are really, really wild. I never heard of a CLI
>doing that sorta stuff. [do you want examples?]

Examples, Please do!
>			- Dan Johnson
>
Roger (marquis@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy