HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (robert s. richardson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:00:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1992Sep6.220028.2774
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <65342@cup.portal.com> Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>But hell, stranger things happen. Lookit all the American car
>dealers who sell a "domestic version" of a foreign car to cater
>topeople who want to think they're buying "American." Or vice versa..
>to cater to folks who think there's some built-in quality factor
>or snob factor by buying foreign? Dodge Stealth. Mitsubishi GT3000.
>Same car. Same guts. slightly different trim.  Ford Probe. 
>Mazda MX-6. same deal. Perception. Getting fooled. "Brand Loyalty."
>Whatever ya wanna call it this week.
>Harv

I know this no longer belongs in comp.sys.amiga.*, so could someone
tell me where to follow-up this to?

Anyway, I think I differ with your interpretation of this repackaging. Many
of the American versions offer different warranty and service contracts. Also,
for the car I am looking at buying right now (A Dodge Colt Vista Wagon /
Eagle Summit Wagon / Mitsubishi Expo LRV), the chrysler version offers
a better warranty, approximately the same price, *and*, there is no
mitsubishi automotive dealer in this town, while there are a number of
chrysler/jeep/eagle dealers in this area--getting a car serviced under
warranty near home is important to me.  I am well aware that this vehicle
is 100% japanese.  (And, while I am a loyal American buyer most of the time,
this particular vehicle suits my needs ideally, and as far as I know, NO
other manufacturer, foreign or domestic, offers a similar package--this is
sort of a micro-mini-van, sliding door and all, with a high drivers 
seating position and a removable back seat, 4WD, and good gas mileage.)

Oh, and there are plenty more than just "trim" differences between an
MX-6 and the ford Probe, though certainly Mazda has the better
product name!

OB.AMIGA  IF an A500 is the "ford escort" of the Amiga line, what
are the 600, 1000, 2000, 3000.  (Lets keep this hopeless analogy
to the current machines, for now!)

Bob Richardson
bob@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Shakeout in PC Industry Continues
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:44:30 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <raymondu.1h4o@terapin.com> raymondu@terapin.com (Raymond Ulibarri) writes:
>
>   About six months ago Packard Bell _ALMOST_ made a public stock offering. 
>But it seemes that a large percentage of their machines were being returned
>because of defaults.  Because of that and any number of other reasons, Packard
>Bell recalled their stock offering.  That bodes ill for a business.

Packard Bell doesn't build their own systems.  Instead they contract the work
out.  A recent BusinessWeek article said that they had made some bad choices
in who they were having build their systems.  Some of their bulk customers
weren't too happy.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rknop@cco.caltech.edu (Robert Andrew Knop)
Subject: Re: c.s.a.advocacy in general
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:55:37 GMT

01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:


>	Current postings have lead me to this.  I used to be a lurker, but this 
>time I have to post.

>	Has anybody else noticed a pattern developing here?  Besides me?

DEVELOPING?  I thought those patterns were in the charter!

>	You know, I could make a kill file, but then, I would suspect that
>c.s.a.advocacy postings per day would dwindle down to a record 3 or so.

I won't ask the obvious question, but suffice to say that everyone is
scratching their heads, looking at your post, and wondering.  Then, they are
looking at themselves, and wondering.

-Rob Knop
rknop@tybalt.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Amiga 3000 Tower Prices
Summary: How much do Amiga 3000 Towers go for?
Keywords: amiga,tower,prices
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:49:51 GMT

I was wondering why an Amiga 3000 Tower costs US$6000.  The Tower over here 
goes for A$3999!

Now, at the moment, the Australian$ dollar is dropping like a rock, last 
time I looked A$1 = US$0.66.  So this would place a Tower at <US$3000.
Why the big discrepency?  I think it may be due to the 68040 card, but I'm 
not sure.

Do the towers come with different amounts of memory and hard-drive space?
The Australian one comes with 105m (hard-drive I assume) and unspecified 
amount of ram.

Also, the 
A600 with 30meg HD 		costs A$799
CD-ROM drive (a570/a690) 	costs A$699.
Amiga 3000HD (52meg HD)		costs A$2650
Amiga 2000HD  "      "		costs A$1275


I'm curious...

Jim

PS. All prices are "street-prices".



Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
InterNet  10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au     \_.-._/       Brentford Square
 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Perot
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:16:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.060508.13745@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
[someelse writes:]
>Where has the US overthrown a democratic government by miltary force?
[I write:]
>Like the democratic government of Iraq?
Ach, I realized just after I sent this i was wrong.  The US didn't overthrow
the government of Iraq, democratic or not.  I guess I 'saw it coming'. :-)
--
Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: Amiga production history thoughts
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:04:33 GMT

gs@TEETOT.ACUSD.EDU (Sir Greg Simon) writes:


>In Andre Yew's post, he mentioned that Eggelbert (sp?) talked about how
>the high-end chip set could produce a blitter per plane.

>Hmm...I seem to recall a lecture given by RJ Mical in the pre-KS-1.3
>days about the history of the Amiga.  He (RJ) talked about the orginal
>AMiga group in Los Gatos and how they were working on a chip set with a
>_blitter per bit plane_ but "nothing was ever produced because Commodore
>stopped financing them."  

>I wonder, if C= had continued financing them, if we would have had this
>(or some) of these 'enhanced' features many year's ago?

'many year's ago' C= didn't need super chips.  Remember, back then the only
competition was CGA and monochrome macs.  Pointless to waste money on something
you don't need, especially when they were pretty poor at the time.  C= gave
Amiga copr. something like 50 million us for the amiga, including costs to get
it out the door.  And as is well known, it was incomplete.  Just look at 1.1.
If C= had had 6 months up its sleeve and a big fat check, we might have seen a
new chipset earlier.  Finished software would have been better at the time.

Multiple blitters really only allow you to use slower chips and run faster.
i.e.  24 slow blitters = 1 fast blitter.  But 24 slow ones would be cheaper.

>I realize that tecnology is always a factor; but it's funny how
>Eggelbert is talking about this now like it's 'all new,' when the Amiga
>group in L.G had thought about it half a decade ago...

>-Greg

>***********************************************************************
>* Greg Simon               "Amiga: the computer for the creative mind"
>* <gs@teetot.acusd.edu>    "Macintosh: the computer for the rest of us"
>* Univsersity of San Diego
>* Electrical Engineering    Blitting is a way of life.
>***********************************************************************

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:33:33 GMT

In article <25799@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
> The A4000 has a PCMIA interface.  C= are shortly to release a CD-ROM
> drive for the A600 which will connect via the PCMIA interface. 

Oh, so now it's IDE and PCMCIA instead of SCSI. How much does TWO interfaces
cost? The A600 having IDE and PCMCIA didn't bother me much, 'cos there ARE
lots of cheap low-end IDE drives and surely CBM wouldn't put it in their high
end machines. It should have...

I should have guessed it was the camel's nose...

And what about tape?
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`
From: James_Hastings-Trew@telepro.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Distribution: world
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:44:19 CST
Organization: TelePro Technologies

In a message dated Tue  8 Sep 92 14:27, Danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (frank R. 
wrote:

 DR> but not much. So, my question is, does anyone have a better
 DR> alternative that
 DR> we can offer to software developers. My personal favorite is that we
 DR> just 
 DR> assume ALL default tools are actually in the Path, and include **NO**
 DR> info
 DR> other than the name of the Tool. But, if anyone has a better
 DR> suggestion,
 DR> please post it, or simply post comments on the situation in general.

 DR> Thanx for listening...

YES!!! Instead of C:More or SYS:TOOLS/MORE or DF0:MORE or whatever else I
have seen on any number of disks, just put MORE. It's on the path, even
with a default Startup-Sequence...

One other thing I hate that developers do is to use More-like utility
programs, which then have to be referenced back to the original floppy
(like it does not end up in a huge pile of identical-looking floppies
somewhere in the recess behind by keyboard and under my monitor)....

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:13:04 GMT
Organization: Bugend BBS

jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:

>     I am VERY interested in the impressions of an Amigan who has (a)
>     seen UNREAL, (b) seen a lot of Amiga demos, and (c) has some
>     knowledge of the technical content of demos. I for one am grateful
>     that rjc posted these articles.

I can claim i fill the requierment for (b) and (c), as for (a) I 
haven't seen the Unreal demo but I have seen the vectordemo by Ultra 
Force and it looks about as demos did on the Amiga in 1990. It has the 
advantage of smooth colourtuning, but otherwise it's not up to much.

And the file size is enormous, over 200 KB for the ZIPed file...

---
Only beer makes it possible in a mental hangover...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:13:56 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

>>>Reason for A600 ECS machine?  
>>>How about a $1000 A3000 by mid year?
>>>Sound salavatory?
>>How about: annual C64 sales in the range of 700,000 units. A low-end,
>>affordable Amiga will benefit everyone in the long run. Something has to
>>pay for developing the other toys.

>It seems that some people were expecting a $500 machine with an 030 and
>the AGA chipset.  As nice as it would be, I really doubt that C= or any

The next machine up from the A600 will be an 020 powered A4000.
The mid range machine will be 030 powered.
Then the A4000.
Within a year or so the next chipsets with 24 bit will be out.

>I personally think that the A600 and A600HD stand a chance of being very
>big sellers for C=, provided that they have a sound marketing strategy.

The A600 is going to replace the C64, in market and price.  It is a vastly
superior machine, more than a toy sega and cheaper than a clown.

>Skip Sauls
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:31:32 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BuC71z.55I@medar.com> jseymour@medar.com (James Seymour) writes:
>
>------------------------- begin included text --------------------------
>
>    kludge (klooj) or kluge (kluj) [origin unknown]  n.  1. An ill-sorted
>     collection of poorly matching parts forming a distressing whole.
>     2. An ill-conceived, and hence, unreliable system that has
>     accumulated through patchwork, expediency, and poor planning.  3. A
>     system and esp. a computer system made up of poorly matched
>     components.  intr.v. -ed, -ing, -es.
>
>-------------------------- end included text ---------------------------
>
>Now, I don't know as I'd call MS-DOS/clone systems kludges as per
>definitions 1 & 3, but I'm certainly of the opinion that "modern"
>DOS-boxes fit #2 perfectly.  EMS/XMS is just one reason.  There's a
>whole raft more.
>
>[more deleted]
>

I understand and agree with all your comments.  I just want to point out
one thing.  All of this applies to DOS only.  Put a real OS on the system
and the kludge (definition #2) goes away.
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 01:19:38 GMT


   Um, Skip, I'm assuming you directed this to me since you quoted my name at
the end of your reply. If you didn't direct it to me, ignore this reply. <Grin>

In article <1992Sep15.181829.486@cs.olemiss.edu> skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
> 
>You have stated that
>you have a nice PC and that you prefer the games on it to those that you
>have seen on the Amiga, so why should games on the Amiga concern you? 

   I don't own a PC myself, but use them all the time at work. Unfortunately.

>Please don't consider this a
>jab at the PC, I program PCs for a living and find many of the games on
>the PC truly incredible given what the programmers have to work with.

   Jab all you want, I'll egg you on. Until June, I made my living on Amiga
games, currently make it on MS-DOS disk and CD-ROM games, and in about three
weeks, I'll be making it on Sega Mega-CD games. 

>That being said, I for one do not mind at all if the Amiga is no longer
>seen as the best games machine.  

   Finally! I can justifiably call clones a "game" machine! <Big smile> 

>>>Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 

   There it is. That's me! Have fun. 


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who know
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:35:39 GMT

In article <gate.LFRqqB1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us> mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (mr_scary) writes:
>	People bitch endlessly about how the Amiga is expensive, but when
>C= tries to reduce the cost on current models (Commodore may be able to get
>a better discount on IDE drives in their machines since this is probably
>what their PC products use as well), people bitch anyway.  

   The irony of the situation with replacing SCSI with IDE is that it probably
would have been cheaper (at least in the short run) to leave the SCSI subsystem
there instead of replacing it with a brand-new IDE interface.  Details to
follow in a week or so.

>What would it
>take to make you happy?  A Multitasking Quadra 950 that runs all software
>for any machine with 32bit 120fps video for $500.00?  The company would go
>out of business, then you'd bitch more because you had no support.

   No, just more intelligence on the part of the people who make the decisions
about what the engineers will design.  IDE may have made sense for a low-end
system with AA, but not for a high-end system.  Besides, there are other costs
to consider.  I've already pointed out that if Commodore were to decide to
support all Amiga models with CD-ROM drives, Commodore would have to develop
four models of Amiga CD-ROM drives; whereas Apple Computer needs to only 
develop ONE CD-ROM drive that will work on all Macintoshes models.  The costs
involved in developing these extra CD-ROM drive models have to be considered.
You also have to consider all of the sales Commodore may have lost by locking
themselves out of easily producing an A4000 with an Insite floptical drive as
standard hardware.  And so on...

   In short, my expectations at least are for simply common sense.  I don't
know about others, but my demands and expectations are not unreasonable.

>
>---
> * AME 1.07 * Don't Comment on things you've never seen!
>                                             

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: bo24+@andrew.cmu.edu (Berend Ozceri)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Questions on DIG/RTG?
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:36:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Ieh0Wre00VpAA1B0Qz
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hello there!

Here are some questions that may sound silly to some of you, but anyway:

1) What exactly is the DIG/RTG?
2) What are C='s plans on it?

If you could post an answer or send me E-Mail, I would appreciate it.

Thanx.

-Berend
From: Holt@cheme.washington.edu (Brad Holt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:45:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: 128.Holt-150992074055
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Chemical Engineering, U Washington

In article <1992Sep15.140013.13389@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au>,
davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) wrote:
> 
> In article <sw9y1bc@rpi.edu> danaf@rpi.edu writes:
> >My (highly flammable...) feelings on the A4000:
> >
> >In a word, **SIGH**.
> >
> >What did we get this time? A 32-bit bus (oooo...) with <<FEW>> new graphic modes
> >to speak of (we were supposed to TOP IBM and Apple, not play catchup...),
> 
> AGA _does_ top Apple and IBM.  We're talking standard equipment here.  Apple
> gives you 24-bit standard on a Quadra, sure, but they're somewhat more
> expensive than an A4000, too.  As for PCs, the standard everone compares Amigas

   Huh?   All of the Mac II line supports 24 bit graphics, just get the
Apple
8/24 bit card.  In fact we have an old Mac II here (what year was that
released
anyway)that supports 24 bit graphics.

   It is too bad that C= can not get its act together and produce and
operating
system that has device independent graphics.  I am glad I did not run out
and buy an a3000.  I remember everyone saying how upgradable it was.  Turns
out it is not so upgradable.
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore Announces CD Solution Promotion
Date: 10 Sep 1992 22:34:34 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <1992Sep11.044343.12374@javelin.sim.es.com> blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:
>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>>[please, don't make me repeat any of that, ok?]

>As you will all remember, long ago I predicted that when Commodore
>announced the "buy an A3000, get a free CDTV" promotion, MB's immediate
>response would be a minimum of two full screens of complaining and
>whining.

>Once again I have demonstrated my omniscience, omnipotence and
>omnipresence where MB is concerned.

Well, it's finally out now.

And you all thought that E&S only did flight simulators.

They do Usenet-whiner simulators as well!

Marc Barrett has been their pet AI project all along!

[Closed-captioned for the humor impaired:]

Well, it's finally out now.  [;-)]

And you all thought that E&S [no lawsuits, please] only did flight simulators.

They do [drum-roll] Usenet-whiner [ta-dah!] simulators as well!

Marc Barrett [just accenting the point, folks] has been their pet AI
project all along!

[Smiles, everyone, smiles!]

-- 
Richard
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:40:33 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Link
 <1992Sep9.145526.22235@ctr.columbia.edu> <1992Sep10.074729.14214@utstat.uucp>

In article <1992Sep10.074729.14214@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip
McDunnough) says:

>In article <1992Sep9.145526.22235@ctr.columbia.edu>
>jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>[ ]
>>>
>Ok, I've already said it before. I consider the  Amiga to be a classy
>computer,
>and certainly better than a PC.

Any PC(clone)? No matter how good it is? Interesting...

>Yes I was annoyed, becaues the PC world hasn't changed. It's as bad as the
>days when I has a PS/2 model 80. PC's have set back progress in micro

I guess cheap, hires/hicolor/fast graphics, standardized sound cards, cheap
CDROMs, and way faster CPU for the same price (486-33 is very common now)
isn't progress. It is the Amiga that hasn't changed, leaving PCclones
plenty of time to catch up.

>That's not a lie +/- 50k depending on your memory manager. You simply don't
>have more than 640k of real RAM (unless you use OS/2 or Unix, which is another
>story. OS/2 does not support MPC's yet, and Unix is better run on a NeXT, for
>example. I defy you to point to any evidence that DOS users have more than
>640k of memory without going the extendor route.

Ever heard of Windows? Windows gives apps access to up to 16MB of memory.
Nobody claims that it's elegent, but you are just wrong.

>Look, Jerry I'm actually pretty open about PC's. I went so far as to get one.
>I have a number of systems. It's simply the worst  of the lot. Please
>explain how you get around the 640k issue.

You sound really biased despite your claim to the contrary. For your
information, I'm a hard-core Amiga user, but it's easy for me to see
that the Amiga is standing still while PCclones are improving very quickly.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy