From: hamilton@hydra.gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Rob Strom's concerns
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:40:58 GMT
Reply-To: hamilton@gmr.com
Organization: GM Research Labs, Warren, MI


In article <1992Apr03.195813.6271@watson.ibm.com> 
strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
>In article <81676@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, 
hamilton@hydra.cs.gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50) writes:
>
>|> Judaism. And there are people like Rob, who from their perspective have had
>|> their families torn apart by family members becoming Christians. 
...
>
>I'd just like to clarify the above.
>
>What upset me and my wife was not that her brother and sister
>became Christians, but the circumstances under which they
>did so.  My brother-in-law was converted at a time when
>he was going through a great psychological upheaval, was
>neither strong nor knowledgeable, and was very vulnerable.

From a Christian perspective, the Lord was there to meet him in his time 
of need. 

>He then converted his sister who was not yet a teenager
>and also very vulnerable to his messages about hell.

Nope. People don't convert people. People who are *drawn* by the Holy Spirit
become Christians.

I *do* have a concern about the use of threats of hell. Are you telling
me that you know for a fact that this tactic was used, or are you  
concluding it was used from popular stereotypes? What the Messiah offers
is so positive, I don't have much patience with those who try to "frighten
people into the kingdom." 

>I don't consider that either made an informed decision
>to change religions.  
>
Possibly not, but you say it's been ten years (I think). If the 
decision they made was wrong, surely in ten years they would have
realized it.
In any case, a decision can be right without being informed.

>We kept a relationship with the brother and sister
>afterwards. ... 
>
>both the brother and sister attempted to talk
>to my children about Jesus and hell whenever
>they were left alone with my children, even
>when the children were as young as 2.  This
>obviously put a strain on the relationship.

OK. So they used the "hellfire and brimstone" approach on your
children, and that's why you know. Personally, I consider 
that approach wrong for several reasons:

1. Jesus Himself used positive means to motivate people. True, He warned
   the leaders of hell, but they weren't inclined to respond to 
   positive motivation.

2. Redemption is a theme that permeates the entire Bible - both the Jewish
   Bible and the New Testament. True, God punished Israel when they were
   disobedient, but He always restored them. God is in the business of 
   redemption - "though your sins are as scarlet, they will be white as 
   snow"

>It had the beneficial side effect of my beginning
>certain aspects of my children's Jewish education
>at an earlier age than I normally might have done.

And I agree that this is a beneficial side effect. Obviously for the
same reason Moishe Rosen does.

>
>This aspect of evangelism which targets the
>young and vulnerable 

You are never too young. As for vulnerability, vulnerable people 
are people who need the Lord. Doesn't He say He is the protector of the
weak in both the Jewish Bible and the New Testament?

>and plays on their fears

Not a good approach. I agree. Because it sells Jesus short.

>rather than on their understanding is something
>which I still cannot accept.

But on the other hand, what kind of a God would only make Himself available
to those who *understand* His message? Would not a merciful God deal  
with people's *needs* first, and their understanding later, as they grow
and can absorb what He teaches? What people need is forgiveness, so they
can have fellowship with God.

please reply to hamilton@gmr.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Hamilton                  |
Staff Research Engineer        |
GM Research Labs           ----+----
Computer Science Dept.         |      ...all the earth will be filled with
GM Research Labs               |      the glory of the LORD. Num 14:21
Warren, MI 48090-9055          |      
(313) 986 1474                 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- 
>Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
>IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598