HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:14:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep2.151448.1767
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Sep2.000607.15860@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>.
>There is a new book out, which was reviewed in this past Sunday's
>S.F. Chronicle which may knock some teeth out. Tomorrow I'll bring
>it over and put said information on line.  This new book about
>Malcolm says, among other things, that while Malcolm was in his pimp
>period, he also hired himself to some well-to-do to rich white guys
>as a male prostitute.  A couple of names are named.

Gee. I wonder if Lee would have the balls to put THAT in his movie.  I
mean Malcom has been adopted by young black men as a sort of positive
image of black male machismo.  I'm sure the thought of his hero ever
having a moment of tenderness with another man, beyond the sporting
bunch in the arm or the awkward hug, would almost kill Lee, not to
mention a lot of other young men who idolize Malcolm.

As for me, well...if its true then OK.  I'm willing to bet that even
those experiences didn't do much for Malcolm's views of gays after his
conversion. Conversion has a wonderful way of wiping the slate clean,
doesn't it?

>The author of this book (and I don't know whether the guy is white
>or black) also says that some aspects of the famous Autobiography of
>Malcolm X are contrived. Malcolm, it turns out, was ambivalent about
>a lot of things--about sex, race--the whole kit and caboodle. If
>anything, the autobiography is about PR, in the author's view.
>There are references to fack (fact) this book up.

There is a certain amount of propoganda inherent in ever
autobiography, and in most biographies. This will likely be true for
Lee's movie as well.  Only when a man is safely dead can we idolize
him, edit his life to fit our romantic images of him and what he
represents, and forget those parts we find either inconvenient or
distasteful. Once he is safely dead we can make him into what we
dreamed he ought to have been, and we can invest our hopes in the
image we have made.  We did it with Martin, so why not Malcolm?

We have this strange way of never REALLY wanted to know our heroes.

>I know that there is bound to be a lot of new information springing
>up about Malcolm, because he means a lot to many of us, and some of
>it is going to piss us off, because we don't know whether it is true
>or not. Just remember that many of our icons have clay feet.
>Remember Malcolm's essential message to all of us:
>self-determination.

Essentially, the man's life does not neccesarily change the man's
message, no matter how much the two may contradict. If there was any
truth in what he had to say, then that truth may be sifted out and
taken for what it is. The contradictions, however, are important too.
We tend to edit those out when they make things too difficult for us.


-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: News re Lee's 'Malcolm X'
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:34:07 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

This is in reply to wattsww@ntmtv.UUCP (Warren Watts), who wrote:
:
:I believe that rap artist need to form their own independant record
:companies to prevent this sort of bullshit.  Time Warner is run by
:cowards.
:
:

I think they already have.  Who's that guy with all the hip hoppers
on his label and who just launched the show on BET?  He's worth
millions, all from independent rap productions.

(No irony intended.)
-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:27:19 GMT

In article <stovall.714958684@ficus.cs.ucla.edu>,
stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (little stevie stovall) writes:
>
>In a move that even outraged a woman Holy Ghost preacher I listened to
>this morning, LA DA Ira Reiner removed the black judge who was scheduled
>to preside over the 8-Trey/Reginald Denny trial. The reasons given were
>pretty lame: 1) Judge Dorn was not a "long-cause judge" and therefore
>couldn't devote exclusive attention to the case 2) Judge Dorn's court-
>room didn't have the desired security enhancements 3) Judge Dorn had
>a history of "temperamental" clashes with prosecutors. Of course, race
>had nothing to do with it :-)
.
They buried this mess on page 5 or something in the Chron...I almost
missed it.  Uhuh, they don't wanna S.F. to go up NEITHER, so they're
coolin the coverage...
.
>
>Judge Dorn called a press conference to castigate DA Reiner, and was
>backed up by his supervisor, who called him one of the top judges in
>the city. Damian Williams momma likewise called for Reiner's head.
>Yolanda Madison, the most visible African American student at UCLA,
>was quoted as saying "If they get convicted, I suggest that people
>burn the city down." Ooh-wee, baby.
.
Lord (heaven, the good Goddess, and the Universe) have mercy on us
all.
.
>Seeing as how convictions in the Rodney King federal civil rights
>case are going to be hard to come by (intent to deprive has to be
>proven), the go-down may yet go down one mo time.
.
And now that there ain't nothing left to burn in South Central, I
guess Beverly Hills and Brentwood have been targeted already...kiss
it goodbye if the verdicts don't put the cops in stir and if the
brothers don't get a fair shake re Denny.
.
The whole thing just scares me--a whole lot...and you know what else
scares me?  250,000 people in South Florida with no food, no water,
no heat, no shelter.  This is some army of folks.  If they get no
relief soon, they could easily make the LA riots look a 3:00 p.m.
tea party.  Louisiana's hurtin, too, although not as much as Dade
County.  I noticed Bush only visited Louisiana and not Florida
(correct me, babies, if I'm wrong).  Betcha there would have been no
photo opportunity there, they would have stoned him.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism,misc.legal,soc.culture.usa,oh.general
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: ADL Dismayed by Ohio Court Decision Striking Down Hate Crimes Law
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:57:21 GMT

Here is a press release from the Anti-Defamation League.

 ADL Dismayed by Ohio Court Decision Striking Down Hate Crimes Law
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Myrna Shinbaum, 212-490-2525, ext. 145, or
          Steve Freeman, 212-490-2525, ext. 113
          both of the Anti-Defamation League

   NEW YORK, Aug. 26 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Anti-Defamation League
(ADL) today expressed dismay at the Ohio Supreme Court decision
striking down that state's hate crimes law as unconstitutional.  The
league had filed an amicus brief urging that the law be upheld.
   "Contrary to the reasoning of the Ohio Supreme Court, we do not
believe that Ohio's hate crimes law punishes bad ideas," said Melvin
Salberg, ADL national chairman, and Abraham H. Foxman, the league's
national director.  "The law enhances the penalty for crimes
motivated by bias, and only comes into play after a crime is
committed," they added.  "Citizens of Ohio are entitled to think and
believe as they choose without state interference, but if their
bigotry prompts them to engage in criminal conduct, the state should
be able to punish that conduct as it sees fit."
   Ohio is one of many states which have enacted penalty enhancement
hate crimes laws based on or similar to an ADL model statute.  It is
likely that the Supreme Court will agree to review this approach in
its next term, and the ADL remains confident of its constitutional
soundness.  Certainly at a time when bias-motiviated crimes are on
the rise and many communities are tinderboxes of hate waiting to
explode, the need for special laws to combat such crimes could not be
greater, said the ADL.
-30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope)
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  1 Sep 1992 15:31 EDT  

In article <1992Sep1.135428.18841@seq.uncwil.edu>, frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes...
>edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope) writes:
> 
> 
>>My point is that it was dangerous for a woman (or anyone) to be on a street
>>corner at 10 p.m. The fact that the boys and the woman are of different races
>>is the only thing that makes this incident "racial."  If you make everyone the
>>same race in the same incident, then it becomes teenaged boys harassing a
>>woman and it probably wouldnt have made the papers.
> 
> 
WF>And why is it dangerous for someone to be on that corner. Shouldn't
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^
WF>it be safe? They may not have harrassed a black woman. Make Rodney
   ^^^^^^^^^^^

Shouldnt this be a "kinder and gentler" nation? Well, WAKE UP because it
isnt!  There are a number of reason why you shouldnt be out alone on a street
corner.  You could get robbed, attacked, or killed by ANYONE!!

I'm not so sure that I wouldnt rob someone myself, if I ever became desperate
enough. But that would have to be REALLY DESPERATE.

WF>King white. Would that have changed the publicity of that beating?

What I'm saying is that it is pure over-reaction to make every negative
thing that transpires between different races a "racially motivated" incidence.

When I'm driving and a white man cuts me off, my anger isnt racially 
motivated.  Is he racially motivated to cut me off in the first place? I
doubt it!  It is simply a case of a man (who happened to be white) cut me off
and I'm pissed about it. No racial motivation here.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: News re Lee's 'Malcolm X'
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:03:28 GMT

More on Spike Lee's "Malcolm X..."
.
I read today in the Chronicle that Time-Warner execs saw the
finished product, 3 hours and 20 minutes, and are pretty shook up.
Get ready for some more fireworks re freedom of expression.  After
the "Cop Killer" Ice-T controversy, these dudes are scared.
.
The one thing which seemed to exercise them the most is the intro.
The American flag burns into the letter X and behind it is footage
of the Rodney King beating.
.
As far as I am concerned, these execs had better sit down. They
bitched about how much it was going to cost (compared to other
non-chocolate covered sugar bombs) and the brothers and sisters who
had bread had to front Lee the money to get it edited. Too late now
to stash this major mother away. They can't do that mess to Lee like
they did to Erich Von Stroheim and Buster Keaton (old film
controversies that had nothing to do with color but everything to do
with money and depicting real life in art as opposed to
fantasyland).
.
We are the final arbiters as to whether Lee was constant to the life
and work of this man.  As one sistah said during the controversy
about "The Color Purple," LET THE FILM ROLL.
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Women Bashing
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:48:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <0ecrTXO00iUxI204kj@andrew.cmu.edu> dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway) writes:
>
>While I try to refrain from such expressions (at least most of the
>time), "FUCK RAP."
>
>That being said, what I mean is this: we have too many little boys (and
>a bunch of them are in their twenties) who use rap as a model to pattern
>their approach towards women after.  The more serious problem of what to
>do about relationships between black men and women is obscured by
>half-thinking, questionably talented young men who defend their
>profanity through "Freedom of speech," "you don't understand the
>ghetto," "I'm just playing and don't really mean it," and "that's just
>the way I express myself."

I agree w/you entirely, save for the dis of rap :-) My bent is that rap should
be listened to with sensibilities intact. I don't appreciate NWA for obvious
reasons. I had a hell of a time getting over the same in Black Sheep's CD; but,
I listen to them just the same because it's part of the spectrum. The
flip side are the artists who have asked the same questions you do. I tend
to appreciate the latter, that's all.

>Bull****! While I enjoy music just as much as the next guy, the stuff
>being turned out is just ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!  Couching the ignorance
>of young brothers in the above arguments makes it no less offensive or
>wrong.

I think we kicked this one a few months ago over on alt.rap. I *assumed* that
most of the rap listeners knew the difference between what should be taken 
and discarded, and what lyrics might lead to a better undertstanding about
things. For example, I listen to Souljah - not exactly a good time for me -
but if there's anything she does manage to say, I take what I believe to be the
good and overlook the rest. At the same time, as I said in the last message, I
don't know if my dollars are fueling the idiocy so much as it is the artist 
who'll never see what s/he's saying to begin with. I don't think the genre
has to die out in order to step the ignorance; but, a Catch-22 this does
create.

Mc

my personal emphasis would be to suggest that >
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope)
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  1 Sep 1992 07:36 EDT  

In article <1992Aug31.175931.26287@seq.uncwil.edu>, frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes...
>edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope) writes:
> 
>>>Newsflash:
>>> 
>>>Sunday StarNews Sunday, August 30, 1992
>>> 
>>>Police Blotter
>>> 
>>> 
>>>	A racially motivated violent incident was reported to have
>>>	occured just after 10pm on August 29. A white woman was trying
>>>	to use a payphone at the 100 block of Greenfield St. and was
>>>	attacked by three violent black men. Three black men rode by
>>>	on bicycles and threw bottles at her according to police reports.
>>>	They also shouted racial slurs "White bitch...." etc.
> 
>>You have to clarify how this is an attack. What is I see is three Black
>>"boys" on bicycles riding by a white woman at a pay phone and one or more
>>of them throws *A* bottle at her (How many bottles could they possibly be 
>>carrying on bikes?)
> 
>>Did these boys stop and physically assault the woman or did they keep riding??
>>This is a violent incident, but I'm not so sure that they wouldn't have
>>thrown bottles at anyone who happened to be at the pay phone as they road by.
> 
>Reread, but replace white with black. Really do that, o.k. and see
>how it reads to you then. It seems almost like the definition of racism.

My point is that it was dangerous for a woman (or anyone) to be on a street
corner at 10 p.m. The fact that the boys and the woman are of different races
is the only thing that makes this incident "racial."  If you make everyone the
same race in the same incident, then it becomes teenaged boys harassing a
woman and it probably wouldnt have made the papers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Johns vs. Carpenter
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:29:53 GMT

In article <181guaINNt3f@agate.berkeley.edu>,
ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes to my retort:

>#Tell me something.  Whose civilization?  Whose culture?  Western
>#Civ? or the Yoruba?
>#.
>#Thank you.

Whatssisname says:
>
>I probably should have just said culture instead of civilization since
>you don't need cities (some define civilization as culture with cities)
>to have culture.  In any case, I dare say virtually every culture has
>some rules governing sexual conduct, at the very least, say, prohibitions
>against incest since this is biologically unhealthy for the population.
>Beyond that, there's great variance:  in ancient Greece it was acceptable,
>at least in the nobility, for men to have sex with young boys, and the
>Yanomama in South America are polygynous and raid neigboring villages for
>women (sorry I'm not familiar with the sexual practices of the Yoruba). But
>in any culture, sexual conduct is not simply practiced with wild abandon,
>only directed by one's own hormonal response.  Issues of time, place, and
>appropriateness of participants control desire.  Otherwise, the resulting
>chaos and conflict would tear the culture apart.
.
.
On top of all those cultural strictures are ceremonies and rituals,
including cleansing, blessing and praying.  Hormones would
definitely be calmed down by the time all that transpired and then
the real stuff would begin.
.
Ever hear of the rape of the Sabine women?  And the biblical story
about how one tribe of Israel was decimated except for its women and
one another tribe took them by force?  Hormones, issues, my eye.
.
Give me a break.
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:28:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:

>In article <stovall.715555781@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>>
>>>>Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
>>>>(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:
>>>>
>>>>	But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
>>>>	Then the welcome will be boiling water
>>>>	And roasting at hellfire.
>>>>
>>
>>>It seems to me than any professor of a religion the center of which is
>>>love would be unable to express anything except despair at the thought
>>>that anyone would suffer "hellfire" for all eternity.  It seems the
>>>very antithesis of loving religion to look upon suffering with joy, or
>>>even with indifference or matter-of-factly.
>>
>>Tell that to Allah on the Last Day.
>>

>Ah. Well. I'm not a Muslim, so Allah isn't the name by which I know
>God. Trust me, the God-of-my-Understanding and I have had many long
>chats on the subject, and I think we understand each other.

The point was the inappropriateness of the creature telling his Creator
what is and what is not "loving."

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
From: mills_j@mscf.med.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: MLK & U-2 & Disposable Heroes of Hip.
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:08:06 GMT
Organization: Univ of Penn - Med School Computer Facility


      Yesterday, I went to see U-2 at Veteran's Stadium.  The Disposable
Heroes of Hiphoprisy were one of the opening acts.  They sounded pretty
good to me, but I missed most of their set cuz they started so early and
played for such a short time.
      The whole concert was a little unusual for me.  Normally, I see bands
in much smaller settings.  Normally, there are a lot more African Americans
around.  But last night was strange.  There were only these forty
thousand white people.
      And, then, at one point during the set -- right in the middle of Pride
(In the name of love), of course -- all the 50 foot high TV screens showed
a huge picture of Martin Luther King, Jr.  Then we heard a little snippet 
from his "I Have a Dream" speech (I think, don't remember exactly) and, the
whole stadium cheered.
      It struck me kind of strangely.  I wondered if all of these people
around me really saw MLK as a hero, if they really felt it personally, in
their souls, or whether it was just some sort of PC thing.
      I wish I could have felt more moved by the whole thing, but I didn't.
As I was being publicly educated in this country I was always taught that
MLK _was_ a hero (I was taught this, BTW, both in inner city predominantly
black schools as well as suburban and semi-rural predominantly white ones).
I was taught that he was a hero, and I felt it myself.
      But now, I've been living in West Philly for three years, pretty much
surrounded in AfAm, urban culture, and now I feel self-conscious about my
admiration for MLK (or at least his message, cf. Terrance's post of a couple
days ago).  Now, it almost seems, that MLK has been taken over by whites
and that blacks feel that his message has little to offer anymore.
      I'd like to hear some opinions.  Do people think MLK is just out of 
style now, but his message will endure?  What about all those young white
people cheering him?

 
                                  JCM                      
             |---------------------------------------------|
             |--Mills_J@a1.mscf.upenn.edu (Jason Mills)----|
   -- A white guy whose thinking always interferes with his cheering.
             -----------------------------------------------
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:41 PDT
Subject: Somalia food news
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471600037:000:2135
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 28 10:41:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: Somalia food news

/* Written  5:39 am  Aug 28, 1992 by dmorse in cdp:reg.africa */
/* ---------- "Somalia food news" ---------- */
Morning Edition, National Public Radio, reports this morning that the
145,000 tons of food ordered by President Bush to go to Somalia will
not reach that country until December.

Thus this food cannot count as part of that needed to keep millions of
Somalians from starving by Christmas.

Some additional food is being flown in by the World Food Program.  I
believe the amount is 5000 tons.

I spoke yesterday with a representative of the International Committee
for the Red Cross, Ann Stingle.  She said the need now is 60,000 tons of food
a month.  The current supply is 20,000 tons a month, and US additional
aid is expected to add something to that, but how much is not sure.

I also am uncertain as to the source and amount of food that starts to
go into Somalia today on US planes--four flights will carry 9 1/2 tons of
beans, rice, and cooking oil.  whether this is additional food or exiting
existing supplies that can be moved into Somalia on Pentagon planes is
unclear.

In addition, the commander of the US military personnel there says that in view
of the fact that his soldiers are to be unarmed at Somali request, he will
pull out if a single soldier is killed.  This seems totally reasonable to
me, but it opens up another pitfall for somalian aid.

I think we need to keep trying to find out the real facts, so that if
the whole thing rolls back down hill (for example, if public attentio
turns away, and governments just stop shipping additional food) we
can publicize these facts.  The old hamburger commercial used to ask
"Where's the beef?"  I think that in the case of somalia, we should
keep asking, "Where's the food?'

It seems to me that we can consider this problem solved not when governments
announce what they are going to do, but when relief agencies in Somalia say,
"We are finally getting an adequate flow of food and we are confident it
will continue."

There are high hopes for the present initiative, but concerns remain.
Dorothy

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american