HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:10:02 GMT

v134pfzd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NADIR) writes:
: >: I believe the worst genesis song would have to be "Grendel"...
: >Is this a joke, or are you being serious?

: A joke, sure, after all, it's a Marillion song, right? :) :) :) :) :)

Thank god! I thought, just for a second there....

: "let the blood flow, flow, flow, flow..." -fish
: "why don't you touch me, touch me, now, now, now, now, now..." -genesis

Luckily, Genesis does not repeat their 'now' as many times as 
Marillion repeats 'flow' ... 

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Genesis: The Ultimate Question
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:25:23 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester


During a live interview on an MTV call-in show, during which the
members of Genesis were promoting _We_Can't_Dance_, a caller asked:

"Do you think your music and lyrics have been getting more and more
complex with each new album?"

They at least had the good taste to look a bit uncomfortable. :-)

Finally, Phil answered, "Well, actually, some people think our music
and lyrics have become simpler, but, in reality, they haven't --
they've just become more direct."

I'm sure the readers of this newsgroup will be relieved to hear
this...  :-)
--
_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi				Robotics Applications Development
					Boeing Aerospace Operations
yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu		Kennedy Space Center
_______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:55:43 GMT

ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (peter) writes:
>
>Then why does much of this "current audience" also feel that the older
>stuff is far better than the new. Remember, a lot of the people who
>posted stated that their first Genesis album was from the newer post-
>DUKE period, but never really thought much of the band until they
>heard the older material. Do their ears lie to them ?

I'm coming in late but ... as a high schooler, "And Then There Were
Three" was pretty heavy slogging for me but there was definitely
"something" there.  It was only much later through the rest of high
school and into university that I learned of Genesis' past as Peter
Gabriel emerged with a solo career and much later, delving in the
Genesis back-catalogue, to learn of Steve Hackett.  After listening
to the incredible stage-playing on "Seconds Out", then going back
to "The Lamb" and hearing the missing piece (PG), I felt a loss ...

Someone on a mailing list sent me a note saying that PG wanted to get
all of the five "classic" Genesis players together and redo The Lamb
with modern technology for a movie soundtrack based on the concept ...
never flew. )-;

>Yes, the band can do as they like, but that doesn't mean the fans have
>to enjoy and support the disposable product they churn out now more 
>than the finely crafted music that used to carry the same name.

As a band, this isn't the same Genesis as "The Lamb" nor quite the
same band that played on "Seconds Out" ... but when I'm in a situation
where I can't pick the music that comes on (radio, wedding, or beach
neighbours with a BIG RADIO) it's a relief to hear Collins-Rutherford-
Banks-Stuermer-Thompson-et al. or Collins or somebody with Collins ...
rather than The Usual Top 40 Crap (tm).  At least one can lighten up
with some integrity ... (-;

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Elections 1992-93:
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		* Jean Chretien (Canada)
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			* Perot^H^H^H^H^H Elvis! (USA)
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:40:58 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul24.191329.17470@gvl.unisys.com> rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
|In article <1992Jul24.152004.21225@linus.mitre.org> rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes:
|>In article <1992Jul23.235131.20528@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
|>orpheus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Owen Duncan Smith) writes:
|>> >> >>> >> > >> >But me... I'm just a lawn mower
|>> >> >>> >> > >> I can tell by the way you walk.
|>> >> >>> >> > >It must be a draw...  there's no one left alive.
|>> >> >>> >> > So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
|>> >> >>> >> The Pied Piper takes his children underground
|>> >> >>> >Mild mannered supermen are held by kryptonite
|>> >> >>> And the foolish virgins giggle with their bodies' glowing bright
|>> >> >>Amongst the weeds and slimey waters
|>> >> >we're gonna make it right - tonight, tonight, tonight   oh, oh
|>> >> And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
|>> >See me stretch for God's elastic acre
|>> A flower?!?
|>>
|>He places the number into the tube 
|
|It's a yellow, plastic, scooby-doob

Buppity-bup


-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Steve Hackett recommendations
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:31:56 GMT
Reply-To: ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <36558@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> gmt@reef.cis.ufl.edu (GMM) writes:
>Speaking of Steve Hackett's new solo album, what label is it on?  Has
>anyone heard it?  What does it contain?  Who plays on it?

If you're speaking of "Time Lapse - Live", it's currently on the ?Crisis?
label (french import). If you can wait until August it will be released
domestically (on virgin i think).
9 of the 14 tracks are from the "Cured" tour: Steve & John, Nick Magnus,
Ian Mosley and Chas Cronk. The other 5 tracks are from 1990 and feature a
new lineup including Fudge Smith (ex-of Pendragon) on drums.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins)
Subject: Re: Whatever Happened to Roger Waters & David Gilmour
Organization: Pacific Data Products
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:26:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.162509.7912@muddcs.claremont.edu> jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson) writes:

Radio Kaos was great.  Nuff said.

>	Momentary lapse was much better..."attempt at reviving the
>old Floyd"? 

Momentary lapse to me was a bad David Gilmour solo album.  Still better than
most of the crap out there, but not up to snuff.  How many of you have Dave's
2 solo albums?  Great stuff.

>	Didn't see the KAOS show.  Drat.

Yeah, I keep kicking myself in the ass over skipping that one too.

jim

-- 
Lawyers Creed:  What's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harkins                         [ucsd|uunet]!pacdata!jim
Pacific Data Products               jim@pacdata.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: v134pfzd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (NADIR)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:40:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul23.143411.3387@linus.mitre.org>, rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes...
>In article <1992Jul23.120340.29102@gvl.unisys.com>  
>rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul22.141628.18649@linus.mitre.org>  
>rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes:
>> >> In article <1992Jul20.111108.14479@gvl.unisys.com>  
>> >> rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
>> >> > In article <1992Jul17.190950.5143@linus.mitre.org>  
>> >> rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes:
>> >> > >In article <1992Jul17.115025.4092@gvl.unisys.com>  
>> >> > >rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
>> >> > >> In article <elambert.711317846@qualcom>  
>> >elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com  
>> >> > >(Eber Lambert) writes:
>> >> > >> >Best Genesis: Selling England,Lamb...,Nursery Cryme, Trick,  
>> >> Trespass...
>> >> > >> >              Foxtrot.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >	      Everything else is average(wind, Live, And then)
>> >> > >> >	      or garbage ( => Duke)
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >But me... I'm just a lawn mower
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> 
>> >> > >> I can tell by the way you walk.
>> >> > >> 
>> >> > >> 
>> >> > >> 
>> >> > >
>> >> > >It must be a draw...  there's no one left alive.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
>> >> 
>> >> The Pied Piper takes his children underground
>> >
>> >Mild mannered supermen are held by kryptonite
>> 
>> And the foolish virgins giggle with their bodies' glowing bright
>> 
>> 
>Amongst the weeds and slimey waters


we're gonna make it right - tonight, tonight, tonight   oh, oh
From: ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: PFM & Galaxy (Re: Who is 'Progressive' in the 90s)
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:49:38 GMT
Reply-To: ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <13768@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:

>I agree with this in a way.  If you look at the subject in a.m.p you'll find
>that most are devoted to the most mainstream of the progressive group, even
>by the standards of the 70's.  Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Marillion
>are without a doubt the most mainstream groups in the progressive genre. There
>are so many other groups that could be discussed.  Those don't necessarily
>have to be contempory prog-rock groups.  How about a discussion of Italian
>progressive rock groups (PFM being the most well known).  German groups
>(Nektar, Amon Duhl,...).  Dutch groups?  Focus has been mentioned but there
>are others.  An old favorite that that I've rarely seen discussed anywhere in
>the music groups was Man.  

Speaking of PFM: Apparently three more of their albums have just been
released on CD (at least I saw an ad for them in goldmine mag.) These are:
1) Jet Lag  2) Passpartu  and 3) Suonare Suonare (or something like that).
I'm familiar with "Jet Lag" and since my vinyl copy's not in great shape..
(I can always find an excuse), but I'm NOT familiar with the other two,
in fact all these years I thought "Jet Lag" was their last one !
Does anyone out thereknow anything about these other two albums ???
Are they any good or should I save my money ?

>Just to get things started,  I've got an album by a group called "Galaxy".  The
>album is called "Natures Clear Well".  I think it's excellent.  Anyone heard
>it?  Anyone heard anything else by them?

Yes. It's long out of print... A friend loaned it to me a few years ago
and I made a tape of it, I agree it's pretty good. No to the second
question though, I've never heard, or heard OF, any other albums by these
guys.


OK, to keep things going, let me add a the names of a few Current prog.
bands to this list: From Italy - TALE CUE and ASGARD, from France -
PAGA and MINIMUM VITAL, and from the USA - ECHOLYN, ANIMATOR and DJAM KARE
I too tire of discussing the same old bands from the seventies; although
they were good it's true that most of them are now only a shadow of their
past. However the seven aforementioned bands (among ** m a n y ** others)
are proof true that progressive music is alive and well in the nineties.


peter (ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com)  "The Lighthouse Keeper"
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:11:41 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul21.152240.3766@linus.mitre.org> sussman@linus.mitre.org (Stephen H. Sussman) writes:
>All Genesis albums seem to grow on people.  I can't think of a single
>Genesis album I liked the first time I heard it.

I can. I first got into Genesis just a short while after "Selling England
by the Pound" came out.  That album had grown on me quite a bit and I
had picked up Nursery Crime and Tresspass shortly after before the much
anticipated "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" came out.  I had gone over Greg
Stones house (of Stone Trek) and him and his brother and I put it on for the
first time.  It didn't take long for us to realize this was something really
special.  At the end of the second side Greg said "I'm going to have to order
a lot more of these" (for his record store).
 
-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: blindsay@bcarh773.bnr.ca (Brian Lindsay)
Subject: Re: e: Whatever Happened to Roger Waters & David Gilmour
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:50:18 GMT

In article <16832CBDD.SESPC384@ysub.ysu.edu> SESPC384@ysub.ysu.edu (JIM BABCOCK) writes:
> Waters has a new album out with Jeff Beck on guitar. [...]
>I've also heard (and cannot confirm) that radio KAOS II and a couple of other
>finished albums were shelved by Waters because he couldn't get control of the
>final sound.  Apparently he didn't want Radio Kaos I to have a Floyd sound
>but didn't have the legal power to stop the record co. from changing it.

I find it totally amazing (and incredulous) that someone like Waters would
be unable to 'control' his own 'sound'. After all these years in the business,
working with one of the most successful bands of the last few decades, he cannot
get a record contract that allows him complete artistic control?
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Steve Hackett recommendations
Date: 20 Jul 92 11:15:24 GMT
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

In article <33091@cbmvax.commodore.com> macon@cbmvax.commodore.com (Glen Macon) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul15.211823.25912@ncsu.edu>, hmn@unity.ncsu.edu (Harry
>Nicholos) writes:
>|> In article <1992Jul14.220419.9806@wpi.WPI.EDU>,
>martino@encore.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr) writes:
>|> |> 
>|> |> Were's the best place to start for Steve Hackett?  The only thing
>I've heard
>
>|> From his Genesis days, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Selling
>England by the Pound
>
>he's on every old genesis album though (and including) a trick of the tail.
>


Steve Hackett does not appear on the first two Genesis albums, _From
Genesis to Revelation_ and _Trespass (neither does P. Collins for that 
matter).
From: jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:14:20 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In case anyone hadn't noticed, this thread is getting crossposted to hell
(alt.music.rush) and back...It'd be a good idea to make sure you followup 
to only alt.music.progressive unless you want some militant R*U*S*H!!! 
fans jumping down your throat...
						John Stimson
						Harvey Mudd College
From: cthulhu@sparky.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Kupper)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Kansas - Live at the Whiskey
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:41:06 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In article <1992Jul15.045836.27754@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) writes:
>In article <13vdppINN38i@wupost.wustl.edu> oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes:
>>	Reminder:  the new Kansas release "Live at the Whiskey" should be
>>in record stores by now. 
>
>What record company released this?

  Also, is Steve Morse playing on any of the tracks??
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: little@cs.ucsd.edu (Glenn Little)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:01:35 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


  I agree almost completely with the thesis of Jim's post; I would add
  that Mike Rutherford's decline is on par with Collins' pop success as
  a major factor in the fall of Genesis.  As a player, Rutherford has
  at times been the force that brought a piece up from mediocrity.  On
  "Behind the Lines" and "Cul-de-Sac", it's his bass work more than
  anything else that provides that extra edge and keeps the songs from
  being mundane.  He hasn't played bass like that since "Duke".

  His songwriting and arranging tendencies have changed too (try any
  Mike and the Mechanics album).  So if you look at him as the "swing
  vote" between Collins and Banks, it's easy too see why Genesis might
  be making so many "wrong" decisions compared to the pre-Duke days.

  Banks' solo albums are good, but not as satisfying as they should be
  either.  While his compositional sense is top-notch, he needs the
  earthy dynamics that Collins could (at one time) provide.

		-glenn



In article <1992Jul22.200907.3115@sei.cmu.edu>, ledgerj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Jim Ledger) writes:
|> In article <nigel.711813275@barney> nigel@cs.city.ac.uk (Nigel Mitchem  - System Support) writes:
|> >
|> >Anything up to and including 'Lamb lies down...' I feel is representative
|> >of Genesis, then again I should say 'as I know 'em!'. Perhaps one of their
|> >very early albums (maybe the very first, not sure) called 'In the Beginning'
|> >(I think...) is not representative of the what I would call the true
|> >genesis...
|> 
|> Interesting.  This suggests that you regard the departure of Gabriel as
|> the "end" of Genesis. I guess I've always regarded the emergence of
|> Collins as a major influence on the band's direction to mark the "end."
|> 
|> I've come to classify everything from the Gabriel era "early" Genesis,
|> the stuff from "Trick..." to "Duke" as "new" Genesis, and everything
|> from "Abacab" on as "lousy" Genesis. (Ok, there are a few exceptions
|> per album, but overall this is pretty much the story IMO).
|> 
|> "Duke" was the last album I was really impressed with. I think I like
|> Phil's voice best on this album -- stronger and grittier, but not
|> yet commercial -- and even though there were a few poppy songs included,
|> the album still had some relatively "complex" compositions and some
|> great instrumentals. After "Duke," the spectre of Collins' success
|> tainted the band's material.
|> 
|> With the exception of ATTW3 (which was a real letdown after Hackett's
|> departure), I regard every album from "Duke" on back as pretty strong
|> (well, maybe not "From Genesis to Revelation" :-). Everything else is
|> the work of the hollow shell that was once a great band -- occasionally
|> giving off echoes of the past, but never really measuring up to it.
|> Sad. *sniff*
|> 
|> Jim
From: gmt@reef.cis.ufl.edu (GMM)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Steve Hackett recommendations
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:08:09 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

Speaking of Steve Hackett's new solo album, what label is it on?  Has
anyone heard it?  What does it contain?  Who plays on it?
From: elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Gentle Giant
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:44:37 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk) writes:

>Does anyone know anything about this band?  I have "Three Friends" on
>CD, but was a little disappointed with it.  I heard they were very much
>like Genesis and ELP.  "Three Friends" has some good songs, but at
>times it is kind of weak.  What albums would you suggest are their
>best?
>Thanks,
>Dave

I would suggest "Power and the Glory" or "Octupus". If they dont grab you 
give up.

Of course, jump at "In a Glass House" if you can find it.

Also a compilation "Giant Steps" is a good place to start.

final tip: They grow on you. Try several listens.

eel 
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:44:04 GMT

Ryan.J.Victor@dartmouth.edu (Ryan J. Victor) writes:

>I can't believe the debate that has swept this network! And so
>one-sided! Genesis this and Genesis that; old and new; good and
>garbage; Gabriel and Collins. Relax, most of you have got it all wrong.

>In other words, Genesis music is the same as it ever was: contemporary
>with generous helping of their own special touch-- an invisible one,
>perhaps. Any Genesis album whether it be "From Genesis to Revelation"
>or "We Can't Dance" is uniquely Genesis: it simply doesn't sound
>remotely like anyone else. Besides, every album they've ever done has
>songs that are really ballsy live. The Genesis intensity always has
>been and always will be there in their music. If you don't like
>anything past Gabriel's stuff, I suggest you re-listen to it and think
>about the possibility that your musical tastes haven't evolved. By the
>way, there's nothing wrong in not liking the music; but just don't call
>it garbage. 

While there are a number of criteria (none of which is quantifiable) for
what constitutes good music, I am usually impressed by something if I can
stand to listen to it for more than a few years.  I still listen to
Foxtrot, Trick of the Tail, etc., on a regular basis, and have done for 10
years.  At the same time, I listen to Womad, Chili Peppers, Public Enemy
and Sarah McLachlan, so I don't think I'm retarded musically, as you seem
to think us old Genesis fans are.

When "Mama" came out, I actually bought the EP.  And you know what, I got
tired of it real fast.  I haven't yet gotten tired of pre-Duke Genesis.  It
isn't a question of retarded musical tastes.  Phil Collins is a little too
ubiquitous, to the point where everything he does begins to sound the same.
I don't think he's really evolved at all, especially if you compare him to
Gabriel, who *is* on the leading edge.  Phil/Tony/Mike are surfing behind
the crest.

80's Genesis may not be crap, but it certainly isn't as innovative or
interesting musically as 70's Genesis.  
--
Dave!