Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 1992 19:02:06 -0500 
From: Gerard Deckert <ad1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: raising children
	<1d7cvkINNdoh@manuel.anu.edu.au>
	<0ey6zvK00iUyM7FYlT@andrew.cmu.edu>

Hi all!  *Net-Hug*(tm).  Hmmm - complex topic, with lots of fun
confounding items (which tend to hamper statistics...).  Let's see what
all the fuss is about...

Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 4-Nov-92 Re: raising children
Sherrianne Johnson@andre (1903)

> How would having two parents of the same sex be "worse than a single
> parent situation?"  Because they aren't teaching biased gender roles? 
> Because for some reason they wouldn't love and cherish a child as
> heterosexual couples do?

	Hi Sherri!  Gee, I didn't even know you read this group (I didn't even
know I said things like "gee"...).  The concept of gender roles is
rather ingrained in many heads, but why?  Well, that's what I hope to
explore a little in this post.

> Or because of the hostility that would be
> directed at the child by his/her peers?

	Be careful of your use of the word peers.  IMO, you should have put
quotes around it - I don't think such discrimination qualifies the term
peer.


Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 4-Nov-92 Re: raising children
Lubosh@anu.edu.au (2894)

> but I suppose - yes single-parent kids are more
> enterprising. This is probably particularly true about boys, because they
> lack some co-operation an example of a male father, and they have to find
> their own way. (This is not to say that all male fathers dedicate a
> sufficient amount of their time to their kids.) They feel behind the
> other kids, and thus feel an urge to get on the top some other way, and
> draw the attraction of their peers.

	Hi Lubosh.  Those are some pretty powerful statements, concerning how
"they feel behind the other kids".  It seems like you might be
over-generalizing.

> That's all - I just want to stand behind a
> male/female family... if somebody defends other types of families, let
> him/her have it, or live in such a family.


	But can you explain why you feel that a child needs male and female
role-models when growing up?  Can you give a good definition contrasting
what roles are male and what roles are female?  Where did you get these
definitions?


> Oh, Joe, my dad was horrible, but he still is my dad and
> I love him. He was drunk every second day, but would he be a female I
> wouldn't be here to write this...

	What do you mean you wouldn't be here to write this?  Are you saying
that a horrible male role-model is better than no male role-model at
all?  Why does someone need a particular range of role-models?  Why does
one have to seek role-models only in their parents?

Onwards...

Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 5-Nov-92 Re: raising children Corun
MacAnndra@access.d (2084)

> But men and women DO have distinct roles in society. There are things that
> women can do that a man can't, and vice versa.  And there's nothing WRONG
> with this.

	Hmmm.  Men and women differ, in many ways.    They don't differ as much
as individuals differ, however.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing
these differences.  But, limiting what you'll let someone do, based on
'accepted' roles, is very wrong.  These roles are stereotypes based on
averaged observations, not set-in-stone guidelines for how people must
be - it is essential to recognize this.

	
> Merely
> recognizing differences in people should not imply that those differences
> make a person better or worse than anyone else. It's only supreme ego that
> makes a person say they are BETTER than another, when the truth is they are
> only different.

	We cannot help the attributes that we are given at birth - they make us
different.  What we do in spite of (or even indifferent to) those
attributes are what make us better or worse...

Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 5-Nov-92 Re: raising children Steve
Pope@zabriskie.ber (1408)

> It seems obvious to me that while it is true there are some
> things one gender can do that the other can't, this disparity
> is minor compared to the huge differences in gender roles in
society...hence the one does not justify the other.


	I agree with you completely, Steve - thanks for expressing it better
than I could have.

	Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 6-Nov-92 Re: raising children the
Littlest Orc@wrq.com (1520)

> > Children need role models, male and female. All children, male and female.

> Children do need role models.  But why stop at male and female?  Why 
> not insist that every child needs a black parent and a white parent
> (oops, not to mention an Asian, and a Native American, and....) so that
> they'll get the full perspective?  And oh -- doesn't every child need
> a straight parent and a gay one, too, so that they'll be guaranteed an
> appropriate role-model for their upcoming orientation?
	...
> 	Gender isn't the only distinction around in our society.  Kids grow up
> fine in families of one race, one socioeconomic status, one kind of sexual
> orientation.  No reason they can't grow up fine in families with parents
> of only one gender, too.

	Well said - very well said.  This is a clear argument against the
'need' of specific role-models.  Of course, if you want to control what
opinions your child has, controlling the role-models your child is
exposed to is a good way to do it, I suppose.

Excerpts from netnews.alt.polyamory: 7-Nov-92 Re: raising children
Justin P Sullivan@aix309 (605)

> If they
> go to a public school, they'll get a rotten education just like every
> other public school sap (with the addition of ruthless badgering from their
> peers).

	Once again, I see a misuse of the word peers.  Children brought up in a
healthy non-'mainstream' family will hopefully be made aware of many
things, including the facts that such a lifestyle may not be accepted by
others, but also that acceptance doesn't determine the rightness of a
situation.  The 'peers', on the other hand, are mindlessly following the
old "different is wrong" mob thinking, in order to gain some local
prestige.  A well-reared child will (have the confidence to) recognize
these opinions for what they are, and will weigh them accordingly.

	Wow - lots of issues, and lots of posts.  Let me offer my own thoughts
into this stream, which hopefully can apply to any combination of
parents...

	The most important aspects (that I am able to tell) of being poly are
honesty and communication.  (They should be important no matter how you
identify, but such is life).  I think this should apply to
child-raising: be open, honest and communicative with your children. 
Children are trying to deal with many unknowns, and the parent is the
most important source of guidance - don't handicap them with a "just
because."  They will (and must) find their own role-models, which suits
what they currently want to know/learn about/be.  You can only help them
by being there for their questions and mistakes.  Instead of presenting
your child with the roles that society expects, teach him/her to see
through to the individuals beneath.  Teach your child to see past the
labels and stereotypes (which are just excuses for thinking) to the
essentials underneath (so they will think for themselves).  Do not hurt
your children by trying to protect them from reality.  Be fair and
consistent, but above all be there.  That is the best one can hope to do.
	I've expressed myself poorly, but I hope you get my gist.  Do I have
any experience raising children?  No.  I am only trying to apply
consistent principles in my life.  When the time comes, I will do the
best that I can for someone I love.  Will you?



					Gerry

(Wow - the .sig that brought me here.  Have to question that randomness
thing...)
--
******************************************
Today's random quote:
"The more you love, the more you can love - and the more intensely you
love.  Nor is there any limit on how many you can love.  If a person had
time enough, he could love all of that majority that are decent and
just."

					-Lazarus Long

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Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.sex,alt.pagan