HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilcock@evtdd1.enet.dec.com (John Wilcock)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups
Reply-To: wilcock@evtdd1.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Evry, France.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:45:49 GMT


In article <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com>, 
dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>
>I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
>the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.
>
>[...]
>
>What do you say?
>

Thank you! (for volunteering to deal with the formalities of a vote)
Let's _NOT_ discuss this here (again), but rather wait for the formal RFD 
and take the discussion to the appropriate group. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- John Wilcock, wilcock@evtdd1.enet.dec.com -- My opinions are my own       --
-- Digital Equipment Corp., Evry, France.    -- Nobody else can claim them   --
-- Tel. +33 1 69 87 56 75                    -- (Certainly not DEC)          --
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:17:59 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, ETH Zurich, Switzerland

I just saw the post-race interviews on Eurosport.  Did anyone else
notice Mansell's mistake when he talked about his previous failures
to clinch the title?  He said something like "Well, I've been 2nd
once to Alain and twice to Ayrton".  (He was in fact 2nd to Alain
Prost, in 1986, to Ayrton Senna, in 1991, and to Nelson Piquet,
then his teammate at Williams, in 1987.)

Not that it matters:  Despite the fact that he clearly had the best
car, I feel Nigel really deserved this championship.  At the end of 87,
I would never have thought that he would come back to do this ...

On the other hand, Senna showed just once again how good he really
is.  I for one would not be surprised to see Senna alongside Prost
at Williams in 1993 -- especially since Nigel is apparently just
asking lots of $$.  (Of course, what I'd like to see is Williams
fielding a four car team with Mansell, Prost, Schumacher, and 
Senna ... )

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andy@mercury.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Subject: Hungarian First Practice Session
Organization: Clemson University Computer Science Dept.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:57:01 GMT

  I just heard on the news (BBC) that Patrese was fastest, followed by 
Mansell then (I believe) Senna.  I didn't get any times, but apparently
the new fuel regs have closed up the field a little bit.  Should be an 
interesting race.

  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  [dxandy@cs.widener.edu]         |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:48:52 GMT


>Nicos Kontopoulos writes:
>>So I guess the drivers competition in 1993 will be within the Williams
>>drivers. And now for the historians: Has there been such a case in RECENT
>>years (after lets say the 70s)?
>
>Richard Welty writes:
>i'd say that prost and senna at mclaren in the mid-80s was a wee bit
>like that.  in fact, i'd say that there's one particular season that
>sounds _exactly_ like that.
>
The 1984 McLaren team of Lauda/Prost WAS the entire championship race.
Niki beat Alain by 1/2 point. This was Prost's OJT period. As I recall
their competition was interesting. But neither Senna nor Prost is Lauda.

Forza!

-- 
Grayson Walker                                              AGWIII@fang.att.com
CHC, Maitland, FL                     Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg, 1964
From: nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:33:35 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>[...]  The way Berger set up Mansell and caught him napping
>was masterful.

Was this the first corner pass or later in the race?
In the first corner, Mansell was clearly blocked (beaten to the corner
really) by Patrese, and in the other pass, either Mansell made an error
or the car faltered momentarily.

For me, the highlight was the champagne war on the podium.
Nige, outnumbered, hid behind his hat, saved his bottle until last,
and got Senna nicely. Of course, he's had much practice this season.

Dave Nixon
nxn@uts.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Alboreto: 11 starts, 11 finishes
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:22:25 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.160515.28621@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>,
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
|>
|>one wonders just how far away Footwork is from becoming a
|>serious contender; their improvement this season is rather
|>impressive (as is Alboreto's ability to keep his car together
|>for the duration of a race.)

The Mugen engine certainly has helped.  This is a rebadged version of the
Honda V10 that McLaren dominated F1 with a couple of years back.  Powerful
(although not in the top rank any more) and reliable.  I think that with some
work on the chassis we could well see Footwork consistently in the points.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:29:44 GMT


In article <1992Aug19.133245.2342@hubcap.clemson.edu>,
csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach) writes:
|>
|>Does anyone out there know if, now that they've got the driver's title and a
|>few more
|>points will win them the constructor's championship, Williams will bring out
|>the
|>FW-15 for a few races?  If I read the rules changes correctly, all of this
|>year's 
|>cars will be illegal next year, so unless Team Willy want the FW-15 to be a
|>virgin
|>museum piece, they'll have to run it this year.  I know I want to see it.  

Not much point, given how well the FW14 is doing.  I would expect that the FW15s
are currently being rebuilt to 1993 specs to get some early track testing for
use in the design and construction of the actual 1993 car (FW16?).

--PSW
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Jaguar
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:44:58 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hi Racers

This *may* not have to do with autos.sport but you might want to know
anyway. The Newspaper "The Guardian" a national daily was testing the
new Jaguar XJ220 and was driving along very impressed with the 415,000
pound car at 105mph in third gear. What did he do???  Stuffed it into
first gear thats what. yes first. It completly destroyed the gearbox
and engine in approx 3 seconds. Now for the funny bit. It was reported
by all the national daily newspapers EXCEPT The Guardian. Wonder Why??


Alan
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Driver/Owner F1 Stuff
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:20:04 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hi Racers

Carrying on the thread of Williams team spirit i can confirm that there
is very little going around and has not been for some time. Point in
question is Frank has about pissed everybody off no end of times, he never
smiles and once this year was caught smiling at a GP and when he got back
was asked "was that really you Frank". The employees are all on a good 
points bonus and as such are earning damm good dosh so far. David Williams
(no relation to Frank) in his guise as employee manager has pissed off
the secretarial staff on more than one occasion. Peter Windsor the team
manager when he started refused a new Renault company car and asked for
the money instead. Whats more he got it, and bought a Merc. Anyone remember
the time last year when he was abducted from the factory in a van and beat
up, wonder what that was all about. The team lads are also pissed off with
everything, moaning minnie (NM) all the time, excuses about the car whan
it runs perfect. You get the drift. Peter Windsor only got the job cause
of Nigel, the mans a joke in the F1 world (and at the factory).

Ah well i suppose it makes the world go round.

More when i know

Al
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lgb@romulus.cray.com (Larry Briski)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:00:25 CDT

In article <1992Aug20.095300.26130@hplb.hpl.hp.com> rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com>, dafuller@sequent.com
>(David Fuller) writes:
>|> I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
>|> the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.
>|> 
>|> I think that it's stifling discussion of a broad range of topics that
>|> should be discussed in a "sporting" automotive group.
>|> 
>
>	Well said !! I'm an avid F1 fan and am fed up with wading through
>	loads of "Re: reliable cars" and all this Nascar (what is it ?) stuff.
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>		RIK
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
>Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     I am starting to agree with DAVE, lets get rid of all these pompous
F1 fans and put them in their own little world. 

     RIK, I don't know what you're complaing about on the NASCAR stuff. 
Since Monday there has been 1 - yes, one only - Nascar posting.  The rest 
of the postings, excepting the reliable cars posts, have been almost totally F1.  
     Personally I'm getting tired about all the posts about how little
Senna wants to be paid if he drives for Williams.  And who Mansell will or
will not drive with, that is if he doesn't retire first.

     Once again, I believe in what DAVE is saying.  That the F1 posts are
stifling other commentary from getting on the network.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lawrence Briski                  |  
    Cray Research Inc.               |
    Chippewa Falls, WI  54729        | 
    lawrence.briski@cray.com         |  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            All Disclaimers Apply 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: NASCAR at INDY??
Keywords: NASCAR INDY
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:46:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.143025.10741@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> firebird@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (larry rosen) writes:
>Well, one good reason I can think of not to race NACSAR at Indy is that 
>the track wasn't designed for it.  In order to let NASCAR race there, IMS
>would have to modify the track in order to do so.  One of these modifications
>would be to raise the height of the wall.

yes, they would have to do this.  in fact, allison and i stopped at
IMS a couple of weeks ago, to get some photos in the museum (we were
returning from the US Alfa Owner's convention in St. Louis.)  we took
the $1 ride around the track.  most of the wall had been torn down,
the rest was being torn down, and the bus driver/tour leader explicitly
stated that the new wall would be higher to accomodate NASCAR.

>  This would effectively wipe 
>out many of the best seats in the house (the ones close up to the wall)
>all the way around. 

i disagree; those seats are entirely too damned frightening to be
good seats, especially the ones right over the impact zones at the
exits from the corners.  my view (admittedly from having attended the
race only once,) is that seats about 20 to 30 rows back are outstanding,
especially on the corners, as they give you a clear view of 1/2 of the
race track.

> How do you fairly reallocate the seats which some
>fans have had for generations?

actually, they're tearing down some of the old, smaller grandstands
on the outside of the track and putting more of the new, larger grandstands
right now.  i'll wager that they manage to give some of the long time
fans fairly decent seats.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b617zbb@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
NewsSoftware: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
    <1992Aug19.020644.22283@rdg.dec.com>
Organization: U.T. Arlington Math Dept.
NntpPostingHost: utarlg.uta.edu
MessageID: <19AUG199200074719@utarlg.uta.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:07:00 GMT
X-Bytes: 1562

In article <1992Aug19.020644.22283@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes...
> 
>In article <1992Aug18.171619.226@den.mmc.com>,
>hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood) writes:
>|>
>|>	Also, you don't see the flagrant blocking techniques in IndyCars
>|>like you do in F1 (Berger squeezing Mansell, twice, in the Hungarian GP).
> 
>Au contraire.  Al Unser, Jr. had some words with Paul Tracy after the
>Michegan 500 over exactly this issue.  Mario has a running feud with Eddie
>Cheever about alleged questionable driving tactics, as well.
> 

So ? Cheever is an F1 driver refusing to let go of his old ways and Tracy
is an almost rookie learning by his mistakes. Come up with some better
examples, and please don't get us started on Andretti again. Senna, Mansell,
Berger, Patrese, etc., etc., are all seasoned veterans, but, they insist
on weaving around postponing the inevitable.

>|>You don't see drivers taking each other out on the racetrack (Senna/Prost
>|>in Japan 2 years ago).
> 
>I saw quite a bit of drivers taking each other out at Detroit.  I grant you,
>there wasn't the bad blood surrounding it like there was 2 years ago at Suzuka.
>But that was considered bad even by F1 standards and eventually ended up with
>FISA forming a committee to investigate questionable driving practices.
> 
>PSW

Yeah, but, no one ever thought it could possibly of been intentional at
Detroit. Flame away, but, the gentleman aspect of racing is much more
evident in IndyCar than it is in F1. 

George
respones: smiley@sdf.lonestar.org

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: barkerb@slab.unt.edu (BOB BARKER)
Subject: Re: Hungarian First Practice Session
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:24:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.005701.23374@hubcap.clemson.edu> andy@mercury.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS) writes:
>From: andy@mercury.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
>Subject: Hungarian First Practice Session
>Date: 15 Aug 92 00:57:01 GMT


>  I just heard on the news (BBC) that Patrese was fastest, followed by 
>Mansell then (I believe) Senna.  I didn't get any times, but apparently
>the new fuel regs have closed up the field a little bit.  Should be an 
>interesting race.

>  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
>  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
>  [dxandy@cs.widener.edu]         |  able to make out the numbers.
>-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------

According to the morning paper, Patrese was fastest in Friday qualifying 
with Mansell 2nd (about 1/10th slower), followed by Senna (a touch over 1 
sec. after Patrese) followed by Schumacher, Berger and after that my memory 
gets foggy.  Does not seem like the fuel regs changed the status quo a whole 
lot but it may have bunched the haves and have-nots up a little.  I have to 
check the spread.  Can't wait till tommorrow and see if Nigel will finally 
get the brass ring.

I'm a fan of his but I maybe, just maybe he'll quit whining about every 
little thing once he wins the championship.


NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bob Barker				barkerb@slab.unt.edu
University of North Texas
From: dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Cleveland and IndyCar stuff
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:09:03 -0500
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.

I hate to see it happen,but I think that the
chances of IndyCars racing in NYC are much 
better than 50/50. It's too bad that IndyCar
has decided to make the races less accessable to
their loyal fans. I for one will not be able
to stay at the Vista Hotel located in the World
Trade Center. I'm not sure I want to take the
stinking subway to the race either.

Perhaps the good folks at IndyCar think that this
race will rival that of the race in Monaco.
YEAH RIGHT!  Does Monaco stink of urine and 
have squeegee kids hanging on every street 
corner?
I don't think I want to be part of the 
"studio audience" for this one.

Cheers, DAVE
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: driver owned teams in F1
Keywords: brabham,mclaren
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:01:10 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

Hi there,
sombody mentioned 'mildly successful driver owned teams in F1' - how about the
FIRST successful one  - BRABHAM - jack having won WC in 1959,60 for COOPER,
he started his own team for the 1966 3litre formula with a derivation of the
BOP alloy block  motor. Hw won in 1966, his team mate denny hulme (kiwi) in
1967 or 8, and I think jack again a coupl;e of years later. Bruce mclaren
I dont remember how successful he was in the early years - most of their

success was in CAN-AM certainly. When bruce was killed testing, and jack 
retired, that was the end of the owner driver teams.
Funny they both came from this end of the world.
Jack said once when asked how fast do you race to win, ' As slow as possible'.
jp
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bjilek@convex.com (Brian Jilek)
Subject: Fuel questions in F1
Summary: Fuel
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Distribution: rec.autos.sport
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:37:12 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

After watching the fuel controversy at the Hungarian Grand Prix, does 
anyone know the octane number that the FISA rules prescribe? David Hobbs
on ESPN said the fuel must be "pump gas". By which country do they pick
"pump gas" for a reference? Every country has a different octane and 
additives they call every-day-run-of-mill-gas. I'm glad they inforced the
rule but I'm rather lost to the true meaning. 


Brian Jilek
Convex Computer Corp.
From: mark@nwra.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:00:24 GMT
Organization: Northwest Research Associates, Inc.

Richard Banks suggests rec.autos.sport.tech to discuss technical
aspects of race cars.

When I read the group name I wasn't sure if this was a group to discuss
sports cars (e.g. modifying your 300ZX) or race cars. I think the name
rec.autos.SPORT contributes to the garbage crossposting we've been
seeing (gee, my VW beetle is a sports car so it quailifies for
cross-posting to this group...)

So, rec.autos.formula1 is unambiguous, as would be
rec.autos.racing.tech, if this group wants to form subgroups.

    )_ _               -------------------------------------------    
   /  ) ) _        /       Mark Baldwin - mark@sparky.nwra.com
  /  / / / / /\_  /_/  Northwest Research Associates, Bellevue, WA
 /  / /_(_/_/  (_/ \__ -------------------------------------------  
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:48:12 GMT


In article <bvandepe.714093885@adelphi>,
bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Ivan E. Rection) writes:

|>>nice of the
|>>broadcasters to pick up on _why_ michael schumacher's rear wing decided
|>>to part ways with him.
|>
|>>i wonder if there were fisticuffs in the beneton pits later?
|>
|>Could you elaborate on this please? The BBC coverage seemed to imply that
|>Schumacher had previously been rear-ended and had his wing damaged. Was
|>something said on ESPN (or whatever) to suggest otherwise?

It was Schumacher's teammate, Martin Brundle, who rear-ended him, causing the
wing to snap off seconds later.  From the replays, it looked like the incident
was at least partly Schumacher's fault--he moved over on Brundle unexpectedly.

--PSW
From: magna@crosfield.co.uk (john hartridge)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: ABS on F1 cars?
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:39:24 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

Is it not just the case that the saloon cars must have ABS if their road-
going counterparts have it due to the homologation rules?

John.

-- 
John Hartridge                      Crosfield Electronics Ltd
magna@cel.uucp                      Hemel Hempstead, Herts, UK HP2 7RH 
magna@crosfield.co.uk               TEL:- (0442) 230000 ext 3402
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport