From: tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Clean And Unclean Under The New Cove
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:11:19 GMT
Organization: Unisys - Applied Technology

Bill Carlson writes:

So, contrary to Harvey Smith's assertion, the parenthetical comment in Mark
7:19 does appear in the Greek, and the issue boils down to "purge all
meats" vs. "cleanse all foods."  Your interpretation still doesn't make
any sense to me (and the translators of the NASB).  OK, so in the context
of Mark's Gentile audience how does "purge all meats" fit in?  Why would
Mark have to make such a parenthetical comment to his Gentile readers?

You continue:
>>TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in
>>TA> Messiah Jesus to fail to circumcise his male child on the 8th day?
> BC>    I would have him read ACTS 21b; where Ya'akov declares that it
> BC>    was a LIE that Sha'ul would say that the Jewish Believers
> BC>    should not be circumcising their children, and forsaking Torah;
> BC>    and let him draw his own conclusions :-)
>TA>So, in other words, they would be in sin, and if he were a member
>TA>of your congregation you would be obligated to admonish/
>TA>excommunicate him? What are you sneaking around about?  Just tell us
>TA>plainly.
>       I did, and we have SEVEARAL TIMES!  But you cannot hear.  My
>       answer is extreemly clear.

OK, so you're saying that it's not really a sin for someone in your
congregation to not circumcise their male children, and you would not
excommunicate them for not doing so.  That you just point out Acts 21 and
let the Holy Spirit do His thing.  In the end it's up to the individual's
own conscience.

It that it?  That's fine with me.  But I know you like to tell us that the
OT law is still in effect, so when did commandments for circumcision become
optional?

A couple other questions come to mind: 

1) Are those uncircumcised male children of Messianic Jewish parents no
longer considered Jews?  Are they now Gentiles?

2) Would you permit someone to join your congregation who has not been
baptized?

> > TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in
> > TA> Messiah Jesus to fail to celebrate Yom Kippur?
> BC>    Y'shua IS our Yom Kippur.  Why would a Jewish Believer not want
> BC>    to celebrate this?
>TA>...biblically speaking, he can't.  There is no bloody sacrifice,
>TA>no Levitical priest, no scapegoat.  It is impossible to celebrate a
>TA>biblical Yom Kippur today.  He can follow the rabbinic traditions -
>TA>additions to the Scriptures - as you apparently do, but then this
>TA>would not be a religious holiday, but a cultural/social one.  What
>TA>you celebrate is a human tradition pure and simple.
>     NO.  But celebrating the greek-whore-goddess day of easterous/
>     ishitar sure is a human tradition!  You've heard all this for
>     years, but your ears are full of wax(ed)  - cold.

You're avoiding answering my question.  The topic for discussion was the
matter of Yom Kippur, and how you celebrate it according to your rabbinic
traditions, but not according to the word of God.  I asked a simple
question, would you excommunicate some MJ in your congregation who didn't
celebrate Yom Kippur today according to your traditions (given that they
can't celebrate it according to the word of God).

"Whore goddess" celebrations have nothing to do with the subject.  To bring
up such a matter at this point is simply  a diversion.  Let's not get away
from the subject at hand, which is your rabbinic traditions. 

-- 
Tom Albrecht
Newsgroups: alt.messianic