From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:40:09 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1993Jan8.210120.16162@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:
>You are punishing God by rejecting Him.

Are you currently punishing Ptah, Enlil, Shiva, Hades, Thor, Perun,
Quetzalcoatl and Yum Kax, Mr Lee?  You reject all of them, don't you?

>A father would be pained if his son rejected him.  Same with God.

Which is why it is the responsibility of the father to make himself
known to the son, so that the son will have substantial reason to
recognise him as his father.  If the father fails to do this, tough.
He may be pained as much as he likes, but he won't be right to say
that he is punished.

Don't you now go and say `but God has made Himself known to you',
because it hasn't.  If it is omniscient, it knows what kind of
evidence would convince me, and if it is omnipotent, it can give it to me.

>When I refer to God giving some painful lessons, these lessons are received 
>while we are on earth and there is still opportunity to repent.  These lessons
>are no more so than any caring parent would give his/her child.

You think so?  Yet some of them involve suffering.  Caring parent?  Foo.

>In each and every one of us, there resides a small part of God.  Some
>would refer to it as their conscience.  In Hell, God is not present.
>Even that small part of Him would no longer be there.

So I won't have my conscience in hell?  How will that work?

>Ones who are in Hell are in torment because there is no God for them.

Stuff and nonsense.  I suggest you read the Gospels.  There are
references to hell fire and flames there.  It is not just a place
where there is no god.

Besides, not having a conscience does not mean being in torment.
Rather, it means not being able to be in torment.

>I have felt God's touch
>and I've glimpsed what visions He would have me see.  These things
>are not so easily explained but they are nonetheless, real.

That you have had your visions is indisputable.  What we are not
prepared to buy is that they have anything to do with a supernatural
sentient being.

>I've never taken drugs
>and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol for the 6 years since becoming
>a Christian, so my experiences were not delusions.

You have taken a powerful drug.  It is called Christianity.  It is
more addictive than anything that goes down your throat or into your veins.

>I've stood up in public proclaiming the good news of the Word of God.

So have many others.  What's the big deal?  I've stood up in public in
a hall full of Christians, denouncing Christianity as rubbish.  Which
do you think takes more courage?

>This is something I would not
>have been capable of before.  Where does this power come from?  

The drug I referred to above.  This is how drugs work.  I'm somewhat
asocial and introvert, but a bottle of wine makes me capable of things
I can't make myself do when I haven't drunk anything.  Where does this
power come from?  Your case is the same.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK