HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ZST@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Zachary S Tseng)
Subject: Btech: Clans will win easily       
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:01:44 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <james.722040792@menaik> james@cs.UAlberta.CA writes:

> After re-reading the compendium, I don't understand why the Clans
> are considered such a threat.  They don't use vehicles, and they
> are bound by the silly 'clan honor' rules.
> 
> The cost effectivness of small FE (with their 10 free heat sinks)
> makes small fast vehicles masters of the battlefield.  A combination
> of hidden units spotting for LRM vehicles behind hills and hover mounted
> artillery are devastating to attacking clan warriors.  Further fast 
> vehicles can concentrate to pick off isolated mechs.  Sure, a clan mech
> can vaporize a vehicle (or two) a round but 10 vehicles can vaporize
> a clan mech in a round.  I can build 10 effective vehicles for the
> price of an omni mech.  The economics are clear.
> 

Hmmmm.....  Actually I think it is clear that we Clans just wnat to play around
with you Innerspherers a bit before we move in for the kill.  Because we can
conquer the whole Innersphere in a year or so if we want to ( to keep all
planets conquered, however, is another question.)  What you fail to see is the
whole strategic situation.  Tactically, the IS has VAST advantages in the
amount of troops and resources, use of cowardice tactics, use of vehicles, etc.
But we CLans have this ace in the hole called orbital bombardment/ system
interdiction.  In a nutshell, just sail our star cruisers into a star system,
blow away any and every IS jumpship encountered, therefore isolate each and
every planet.  Then just move in and force a surrender of the planet under the
threat of total annihilation form Naval PPCs and naval lasers.  Game, set,
match.

Just my $ .02.

Zachary Tseng
Khan, Clan Ghost Bear
Commander, Sigma Galaxy, Clan Ghost Bear
From: sackett@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael Scott Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: A&A - Can the **AXIS** ever win?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 22:38:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

The last game I played, I (germany) built all Infantry, pulled all tanks into
berlin and southern Europe, shifted all remaining infantry that werent sent
to Africa east (including the west Europe units after ALL transports were   
killed of course) to berlin and eastern Europe.  Landed a couple planes there
to defend with the inf and didnt attack.  Now we were playing the no 
first attack by russia too.  Then, I just waited for Russia to attack with
what it could and hopefully take the territory leaving tons of tanks there.
Then use my 8-10 tanks I had from the beginning and a bunch of infantry
to crush there attack with a counter attack.  I should mention I also used
the "scorched earth" rule so you collect your money at the beginning of your
turn (ie you need to hold a territory 1 turn to collect).  Anyways, my lack
of attack confused the Ruskies, and they got exited and spent $15 on tanks
to attack me with.  (big mistake).  Anyways, to make a long story short,
I lured the Russians into an attack, and then with overwhelming tank force 
(and tons of men to back them up) beat them down killing all the poorly
defended tanks.

Has anyone ever tried building a US Complex in there Western Asian territory.
Then having Russia send some a couple inf to help defend it?  I know they
can only pump out 2 units per turn, but they can afford to build 2 tanks
every turn or maybe even some fighters and bombers to threaten Japan even
more...maybe create a 2 front war for japan as well as Germany.  This
way the US player can "get his feet wet" right away. This would of course
require cooperation from the Ruskies to help defend it initially.

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Mike

Newsgroups: rec.games.board,rec.games.design
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:25:57 MST
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: $stephan@sasb (Stephan Fassmann, Software)
Subject: SFB: The Ultimate Fleet?
Organization: BYU

I need some advice on the ultimate battle fleet. 
Limits: no conjectural ships, and generally the S8? limits on fleets-
1 DN, 1 BCH, 1 Scout, and 9 other ships.

Mixing races IS allowed.

Any ideas?  Thanks.
From: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Stratego
Date: 16 Nov 1992 20:39:52 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.46
Originator: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu

There is a serious flaw with stratego in that it is better to defend than to
attack. While you can win by attacking, you are going to lose more than you win.
Once we realized this we pretty much stopped playing the game since it is kind
of dull if both players are sitting back waiting for the other person to
attack.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Near-Future War
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 02:57:48 GMT

hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>Q. Are there any board games in existance, or being developed, that explore
>   the possibility of a military/political/economic war between the U.S. and
>   Japan some time in the near future?

There is one out that is purely military - Red Sky Morning, by XTR, I
think.  I saw it in a game store earlier this year, but didn't open it -
no clue what it covers, how it is.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: Up Front Card Distribution
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:27:00 GMT

In article <rbr.721882222@well.sf.ca.us>, rbr@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Rossney) writes...
> 
>After all the recent raving in r.g.b about Up Front, I went out and got
>a copy this weekend.  It's a pretty cool game, all right, though rather
>rule-dense for my tastes.
> 
>The rules don't include any kind of breakdown of the categories of cards,
>or of RNC distribution, or anything else; AH just tells us that there
>are 162 cards.  Well, I had a free afternoon, so I compiled the following
>information, which Up Front players may find useful.


Good effort, but I believe there was an article in the General which did all
this and more.  It is included in the rules to Banzai, in case you like the
game enough to buy the Pacific module.  Note there is also a "Desert War"
expansion which includes the Italians and French.


Dave
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: Btech: Clans will win easily
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:40:18 GMT

dlow@iti.org (David J Low) writes:

>ZST@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Zachary S Tseng) writes:

>>But we CLans have this ace in the hole called orbital bombardment/ system
>>interdiction.  In a nutshell, just sail our star cruisers into a star system,
>>blow away any and every IS jumpship encountered, therefore isolate each and
>>every planet.  Then just move in and force a surrender of the planet under the
>>threat of total annihilation form Naval PPCs and naval lasers.  Game, set,
>>match.

>    And how many warships will you have to lose to aerospace defenses before
>    you think this is a Real Bad Move?  Warships are a little more rare than
>    one-man fighters....

Well, this would work if they didn't have aerospace fighters too. Since they
have these, and pilots who are just as good in relation to spheroids as
the 'Mech pilots, I'd say they wouldn't lose too many. Besides, they really
don't need to orbitally bombard. Jump in, trash their jumpships with a
couple NAC-40 shots and some missles. Keep the fighters off your back
with screening fighters until you've wiped out their jumpships, then use
your batteries to jump. Repeat until IS is a thick bloody broth.

Axly


********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
From: DukeJ@cup.portal.com (Chris - Janus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Extinction
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:05:13 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

  Several times I have seen mentions of a game called "Extinction" here.
Is this game still available? From whom?

   This sounds exactly like a game I could get into, seeing as how I'm a
student of Biology (widely) and Evolution (specifically). Any info would
be appreciated; E-mail please, unless you deem otherwise. Thanx in advance.

DukeJ@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: barich@bach.udel.edu (Dewey H Barich)
Subject: Re: A&A Subs first attack rule question
Keywords: A&A
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:47:16 GMT

In article <1eb3r9INN509@uwm.edu> sackett@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael Scott Zimmerman) writes:
>I have always interpreted the subs sneak attack rule as follows:
>
>Only in the first round of an attack can the sub get the "sneak attack"
>with no return fire from the target.  The idea being...Any smart submarine
>in my mind would be diving deep after just hitting a Carrier or BB if any
>more units are around.  Besides, you can only "sneak" up on someone once,
>after you fire your steam torpedo, there is "bread crumb trail" pointing
>right at your front door.   

>Now I read that you can get an unreturned sub shot EVERY round of a battle?
>I could very well be wrong in my assumptions, but I cant see having it any
>other way.  Why not just build 6-7 subs to attack a fleet then?  Who needs
>CVs and BBs?

Right, the subs get the first shot EACH round (attacking subs only).
Any hits they make are immediately removed from play.  If you are unable
to remember this at some point, simply follow the "Naval Combat
Sequence" that's on the nation cards.  I forget the specific step
numbers, but the algorithm tells you to repeat from step X, where step X
is "Attacking subs fire".   Also, while we're on sub rules, the
defending subs can retreat only after they have fired, and after the
attacker has decided whether or not to withdraw his subs.  These are
probably the rules which are least understood, I think...

As for why not build all subs, like someone else said, they can't defend
against aircraft.  Besides, 6-7 subs would only get 2 hits (average),
and then the surviving defending units could fire.  The subs make a nice
addition to the fleet, but would not make a complete one very well...

Talk to you later!

Dewey
From: coganman@soda.berkeley.edu (Andrei Cogan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Btech: Clans will win easily
Date: 21 Nov 1992 09:06:35 GMT
Organization: None whatsoever...
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <wschip76.722300014@ursa> wschip76@ursa.calvin.edu (Tom Schipper) writes:
>
>You forget the Wolf Dragoons.  Not only do they have all the Clan technology,
>and the few Inner Sphere advantages (namely C3 computers), but they have 
>improved technology beyond either of these.  In addition, they have just
>collected their fleet of starships (Wolf Pack #4).  Finally, I don't believe
>FASA will ever allow the Dragoons to lose, so the Clans have no chance as
>long as the Dragoons oppose them.

	There are a few problems with this -- They have Clan tech, but only
that up to their last supply run to the Clans themselves, which was what,
3023 or so? Their outpost outside Davion space has stuff that was old by
Clan standards, just too advanced for even the IS. Their warships were
probably in the same conditions, and, in any case, they can't have enough
ships to take on the entire Clan navy all by themselves. Even with the
repair yards rediscovered by Snord and the Kathil repair yards, it's highly
unlikely that IS will ever match the Clans in warship technology.
	And, remember what happened with the LAST non-Clan capital warship
in the Inner Sphere (The LCS Invincible), which went down in 285(3?) -- it
pasted the living daylights out of the other ships it confronted -- it was
destroyed when its drives failed on the way back home from its (victorious)
battle. I mean, even a Clan corvette will paste the living daylights out of
a Monolith... (I fire my two anti-meteor large lasers -- 8 points to
superstructure, 8 points to superstructure -- he fires 2 NAC/10's -- bye-bye
me...) This also presumes no increases in weapons technology for warships
since Star League days for the Clans.
	We are additionally assuming that there will be no real need to
retrain all the IS jumpship crews -- the difference between crews that today
basically sit on their butts 23 hours out of 24, and full-time soldiers that
can actually DO something when attacked.

	All in all, the only way the IS can realistically defeat the Clans
is if there is some MAJOR civil warring among, say, the Wardens and
Crusaders -- I doubt that even with all the knowledge Wolf's Dragoons
possess, the IS would win. I mean, their only real alternative is to gather
together every JumpShip and DropShip they have, load them ALL up with nukes,
and then go on suicide runs against the Clan homeworlds. What are the
chances of THAT happening any time soon...

	-Andrei
"Tyra Miraborg -- the galaxy's first ogg of a major warship in at LEAST a
hundred years."
-- 
   Andrei Cogan (coganman@soda.berkeley.edu)   |||    When in doubt, panic.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you think it will take,       |
|   even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.                           |
From: bill@frog.CRDS.COM (auspex1)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: 183x: Info Wanted
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:27:07 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems

In article <1992Nov16.193308.1417@ils.nwu.edu> lopez@ils.nwu.edu writes:
>Bob Rossney (rbr@well.sf.ca.us) wrote:
>: 
>: 1830 (Avalon Hill) - This is set in America.  It's a much more wide-open
>:    game than 1829, with fewer restrictions on rail-building and a much
>:    more riggable stock market.  It's also much faster moving; I know a
>:    group of folks who can play a game of it in about 3 hours--admittedly,
>:    exceptional.  I much prefer 1829, but then again the rules for 1830
>:    are much better written, and the components are of superior design.
>
>3 hours is quite exceptional.  After a half dozen plays or so our group still
>takes 8-10 hours/game.  

We consistently play it in 3-4 hours.  We know the tiles and we speed up
the stock round by "I will pass unless something is sold".  We also
do not play diplomacy during the game.  You can say what you want, but 
everyone is welcome to move for their own best advantage.  People think
during other people's moves so they are ready when it it their turn.
We also have 5 minute pauses at key points, but every stock buy and every
tile play is not a key point.
-- 

bill masek		charles river data systems, inc
(617) 275-4565 (h)	(508) 626-1122 (w)
mit-eddie!frog!bill	eddie.mit.edu!frog!bill
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: james@cs.UAlberta.CA (James Borynec; AGT Researcher)
Subject: Re: Btech: Clans will win easily 
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:25:47 GMT

ZST@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Zachary S Tseng) writes:

>Hmmmm.....  Actually I think it is clear that we Clans just wnat to play around
>with you Innerspherers a bit before we move in for the kill.  Because we can
>conquer the whole Innersphere in a year or so if we want to ( to keep all
>planets conquered, however, is another question.)  What you fail to see is the
>whole strategic situation.  Tactically, the IS has VAST advantages in the
>amount of troops and resources, use of cowardice tactics, use of vehicles, etc.
>But we CLans have this ace in the hole called orbital bombardment/ system
>interdiction.  In a nutshell, just sail our star cruisers into a star system,
>blow away any and every IS jumpship encountered, therefore isolate each and
>every planet.  Then just move in and force a surrender of the planet under the
>threat of total annihilation form Naval PPCs and naval lasers.  Game, set,
>match.

There you go!  I knew the clans had to win!  All they have to do is
start acting like industrial soldiers.  If the clans stop being the
clans, they win!  After all, look at all the honor they get by vaporizing
a planet which refuses to surrender.  ;-)  

Each clansman can get individual honors by seeing how close their naval
PPC blasts get to City Hall without actually hitting it.  Then the 
next clansman gets his shot.  Sure sounds like the way of the warrior to
me!  :-)

j.borynec
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: petra@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Question about a game called Shogun
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:44:47 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

Does anyone know what ever became of the game Shogun.  It was produced by
Milton-Bradley and was in the series of games that included Axis and Allies and
Fortress America.  E-mail is preferred as I don't read this group to much.

Donavan
petra@mkvax1.mankato.msus.edu
From: bsrae@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr D Lockwood)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Games that belong on every gamer's shelf...
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:13:16 -0000
Organization: University of Warwick Business School
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

A good gaming collection needs to cope with any number
of players, including the occasional spouse, and should mostly
consist of classics so that chance of use is maximised...

1. Britannia (4 player)
2. A Mighty Fortress (6 player)
3. Junta (... is a poor budget, amigos ...)
3. PanzerGruppe Guderian
4. Leipzig from Napoleon's Last Battles
5. Chickamauga from Blue & Grey Quad
6. A House Divided
7. Crusades (7 player)
8. Shogun (5 player)
T. Wellington's Victory (one "monster" ...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a poor tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing

Dave Lockwood - orsdl@razor.wbs.warwick.ac.uk

Lines: 28
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:30:15 MST
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: $stephan@sasb (Stephan Fassmann, Software)
Subject: SFB: New Releases
Keywords: SFB
Organization: BYU

This has been reproduced without ADB's Permission.

Nov 30. Module R1 (Bases, Play Aids)
	Module P5 Lyran Democratic Republic

Next Year
Jan	Captain's Log #11
Feb	Module D3 (Booms and Saucers)
???	Module D? Universe Index
??? 	Prime Directive (SFB-RPG)
???	Various Prime Directive Modules
Mar	Star Fleet Missions: MIssion Pack #2
Mar 	F&E Carrier War (Total War Part 1)
Mar	F&E Fleet Pack #2
Apr	Module T Tounament Book
May	Module S2 Scenario Book #2
Jul	Module C# New Worlds III
Jul	Module P? Early Years
Aug	Captains Log #12
Nov	Module M Marines
???	Star Fleet Academy (Beginner's)
??? 	Module F? The Frax War

_____________________________________________________________________
|Stephan Fassmann  Internet: $stephan@sasb.byu.edu  GEnie: S.FASSMANN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|The Random Acts of Kindness will Continue until Morale Deteriorates|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: re@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Roderick Easton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Btech: Clans will win easily
Date: 20 Nov 92 08:57:45 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <Bxz0sA.G5K@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga) writes:
> james@cs.UAlberta.CA (James Borynec; AGT Researcher) writes:
> 
> >ZST@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Zachary S Tseng) writes:
> 
> >>But we CLans have this ace in the hole called orbital bombardment/ system
> >>interdiction.  In a nutshell, just sail our star cruisers into a star system,
> >>blow away any and every IS jumpship encountered, therefore isolate each and
> >>every planet.  Then just move in and force a surrender of the planet under the
> >>threat of total annihilation form Naval PPCs and naval lasers.  Game, set,
> >>match.
> 
> >There you go!  I knew the clans had to win!  All they have to do is
> >start acting like industrial soldiers.  If the clans stop being the
> >clans, they win!  After all, look at all the honor they get by vaporizing
> >a planet which refuses to surrender.  ;-)  
> 
> Well, I admit the orbital bombardment idea isn't likely. However, no one
> has given a satisfactorily explanation why the Clans haven't destroyed all
> the IS Jumpships. Limited to one system, the IS military could then be
> honorably engaged and destroyed. *Grin* They could even make up a 
> schedule. "Okay, this week we take..Robinson. Next week.." Leaving the
> enemy with the ability to shift around his assets is ridiculous. 
> 

   Have you ever tried to find a jumpship that doesn't want to be found?  Not easy.
Even if they did find them only the most devious, inhumane and dishonourable Clan
would fire on unarmed vessels.

TTFN
Rod
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Btech: Clans will win easily
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 20 Nov 1992 03:33:09 GMT
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Nov19.151407.28151@julian.uwo.ca>, markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon) writes:

>Please excuse my apparent ignorance: Where do the individual Houses
>of the Inner Sphere stand in all of this mess? I've been following
>most of the discussions and there's been no mention of Inner Sphere
>tactics... Would it not be feasible for one of the Inner Sphere Houses
>to ally with the Clans in an effort to avoid annihilation?

 Ally with the godless devils??? Wash your mouth out with soap!

>Another burning question (for me anyways...) Who leads House Davion at
>this point? (Yes, I know. It's probably in one of the MANY supplements
>which I have neither the money to buy or the time to read at the moment.)

 The little weasel known as Victor Davion. But I must watch myself as the
ISF have orders to remove any oppossers to the new "alliance".

>What happened to the Steiner-Davion alliance? Would this group not be able
>to present a united front against the Clans (assuming they wanted to)?

 The Federated Commonwealth is alive and well, curse them. But they must face
the Jade Falcons and the Steel Vipers. Though the Vipers are the main Clan
fighting the Fedrats since the Falcons started infighting with the Wolf Clan.

>I understand that the Clans started coming into Inner Sphere space from
>the Draconis Combine; What's happening there?

 The beloved Combine faces three Clans, the Ghost Bears, the Smoke Jaguars
and the Nova Cats. Odd isn't it that the Combine faces all the fuzzy Clans.

>Thank you for you patience.
>Mark Gagnon (markg@prism.engrg.uwo.ca)  University of Western Ontario

 To catch up I suggest that you buy the TR3050 (TR=Technical Readouts),
TR3055 and the Objective Raid Sourcebook and possibly the 20 Year Update.
But if you're anything like me, you'll wait for a sale :) Though at least
you don't have to pay an extra 66% to the US price :( the sad price I pay
for living in a nuclear free country :(

This has been....
 Tony Taia
  TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
*Just saw Comstar, but the price! Equal to US$25.00 :(