HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: can we judge ccp based on
Reply-To: "micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: talk
Date: 13 Dec 92 04:44:35 EST

In article: <1992Dec12.021158.4551@athena.mit.edu>
   Subject: Can we judge CCP based on the bad side only?
      From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:


>In article <1gb5vsINNrvt#tamsun.tamu.edu> hung@ee.tamu.edu
>(Tzu-Chien Hung) writes:

>>Name a few good things about CCP, so we can make judgement based on
>>them.

>Within the last ten years, the CCP has figured out more or less how to
>run the Chinese economy.

I would rather say that DXP's economic policy (It was also a risky gamble
for DXP) provided the room for the Chinese people to free their
productivity and creativity to some extend.

I doubt that there is any economist or any party has a success formula
for any economy in this world. :-)

>People like to say that "X is 100% evil" or "Y is 100% good" because
>it means that they don't have to think too much about X and Y.
>The real world is more complicated than that.

Agree with this view whole heartily, this is why we all need to learn,
how to be more objective in our observations.

On the other hand, many of these 100% view of extremism were rooted from
the religious inquisitions of the dark ages, latter adopted by various
religious and political fanatics, many of the communist dictators
adopted and promoted it in order to justify their tyranny.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yong Lu <ylu@HILA.HUT.FI>
Subject:      Sign off
Reply-To: Yong Lu <ylu@HILA.HUT.FI>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:17:59 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Please, please and please sign me off
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: mldw@mamura.ee.mu.oz.au (David Wo)
Subject: Re: don't crosspost unnecessarily please
Keywords: crossposting, politics, talk
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:47:46 GMT

In article <Bz7y5y.E7A.2@cs.cmu.edu> wkau+@cs.cmu.edu (Wing Keung F Au) writes:
>
>I know politics is just like religion that you can't really change
>what others think.  the talk.politics.china is created for the die
>hard politics people to talk politics and leave the soc.culture.[tch]
>groups lighter for the more "cultural" topics.
>
>Please, please, unless it is news, otherwise, please DO NOT crosspost
>political discussions to soc.culture.[cth].  those who are interested
>have already subscribed (though it doesn't waste too much more if you
>cross-post, it is very annoying to see 60 new messages, and get only
>15 after my KILL file takes care of the political debates) to tpc.
>

	I agree. I had enough on politics.
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| David Wo			|					       |
| Department of Electrical	|  Room		: 2.16			       |
| and Electronic Engineering,	|  Tel		: +61 3 344 7976 (BH)	       |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: you mad me a day!
Subject: Re: don't crosspost unnecessarily please
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:18:59 GMT

In article <Bz7zB9.F7u.2@cs.cmu.edu> wkau=cmu@ius5.ius.cs.cmu.edu writes:
>
>
>Please, please, unless it is news, otherwise, please DO NOT crosspost
>political discussions to soc.culture.[cth].  those who are interested
>have already subscribed (though it doesn't waste too much more if you
>cross-post, it is very annoying to see 60 new messages, and get only
>15 after my KILL file takes care of the political debates) to tpc.
>				    FRed W. Au
>				    ...!cmu.edu!au+, au+@cmu.edu

	What is worry with you, sir? Does your computer have a fever?

 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: jli@udecc.engr.udayton.edu (Jinghong Li)
Subject: Re:  Real thing rather cheap talk
Organization: Univ. of Dayton, School of Engineering
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:30:28 GMT


              Donate - If It Comes from Your Heart
              Don't - If You Want Something in Return

Donate to help a political prisoner in China?  Yes, I support, I
always do and I will match up with any reasonable challenge.

However, at least for me, the money should come from your heart.
Not to prove something, especially not for your political purpose.

I won't call W. Deng's suggestion "silly" (as his friend did).  I
am offened by the motivation behind.  I feel sorry for such person
who's only interested in gaining "big" by giving little.  I feel
shameful for such person whose "help to political prisoners in China"
has strings attached.

Dear W. Deng, you don't have to prove anyting, actually you cannot
in this way.  Please don't let people feel more sorry for you than
they have already.

Donate, if the money comes from your heart.
Don't, if you what something in return - no one will be able to repay you.

Jinghong Li
for and only for myself


In article <BzAMFC.GMB@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> you write:
>>4. "Shame on you, who love China FROM ABROAD ONLY!" I conclude with quoting
>>Xiong Bo.
>
>According to long experience on China-nt, especially the latest hot debate
>around Xiaowen Li, some netters such as Shizhong Chen, Xiong Bo,
>Zhang Yun Fei and Li Jinghong always sound like that they "trully" and
>"most" care human rights in China, especially the family of political
>prisoners suggested in the above post.
>
>Today, no more cheap talk. I am a poor student, but I will match any amount
>of money any of the four netters I mention above will claim to donate
>to the family of Ren Wanding, as long as he is also a student. (I cannot
>match the amount donated by someone who has a full-time job until I get my
>own job). If you four D-fighters cannot accept my challenge, better think
>it over before accusing me and others whether you take human rights and
>democracy as serious as I am.
>
>William Deng


-- 
- ........................................................................-
Politics is like coaching a football team.  you have to be smart enough
to understand the game but not smart enough to lose interest.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Jinghong Li <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  Open reply to a friend
Reply-To: Jinghong Li <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:43:27 GMT
Comments: cc: jli@amsc01.BITNET

                   Sadness, lix Reaches New Low

For all netters, by all stardards, lix's following attacking showed
nothing but his taste and credibility have reached a new low.  I feel sorry
for him, and feel sorry for the whole net.

What to call it,   Betray friends ?  Fierce personal attacking ?  Confess
of "spying on fellow CSS" ?  Accusing IFCSS for collecting CCP's unlawful
behaviors towards CSS and their families?

It is sad, not only because of the new low, but seeing him follows
Raymond Luh alike getting farther and farther away ...

Jinghong Li
for and only for myself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


>From: Xiaowen Li <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
>Subject:      Open reply to a friend

>Well, your poor imagination may be because you have no father, no friends,
>may be, not sure. Anyway, try not to betray friends, well, a friend of mine,
>maybe a friend of you also, met you and me in your apartment a few weeks ago.
>Are you accusing him lying?  IFCSS is collecting reports about harrasement of
>CG to CSS's family, your poor imagination is certainly not helpful for this
>purpose.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Subject:      A letter published by nature- journal of science
Reply-To: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:18:00 GMT

        A letter published by nature-journal of science Dec. 3,1992 issue.
Sir- we wish once again to direct the attention of the world scientific
community to the dire plight of WEI JING-SHENG, a political prisoner in the
People's Republic of China. Imprisoned 13 years ago (on 16 Oct. 1979) for
pro-democratic writings. Wei is reported by confidential sources to be in
poor health under harsh conditions, and possibly in danger of dying before
completing his 15 year sentence.
        ..... co-signed by:C.C. Ebbesmeyer,J.Ingraham Jr,R.mcKinnon, A. Okubo,
R. Strickland, D.P. Wang, P. Willing.
                                        retyped by Dawei Zhou, Florida
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Xiaowen Li <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Forward for a friend
Reply-To: Xiaowen Li <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:18:24 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

        The following commentary has been transmitted to me by
        a friend.  My usual disclaimer applies:

**********************************************************************


Wing Ng <wing@pegasus.com> wrote to the China-Net

>Subject:      [FWD] News re Patten & HK
>
>Subject:  WP: A true friend of democracy
>
>               Copyright 1992 The Washington Post
>                       The Washington Post
>
>            December  8, 1992, Tuesday, Final Edition
>
>SECTION: EDITORIAL; PAGE A19
>
>
>   At a time when the standing of politicians everywhere has sunk
>to  the level of journalists and faith healers,  Britain's  Chris
>Patten  is  doing  his profession and his  nation  proud.  He  is
>pushing  democracy instead of expediency in dealing with   China.
>
>  [REST OF THE INFLAMMATORY ARTICLE DELETED]

        Ms./Mr. Ng should not confuse OPINIONS with NEWS.  In fact,
it would have been more cricket if Ms./Mr. Ng had told us that the
author of the article that she/he so gleefully posted hates all Chinese
and does not want to see HK returned to China, period.  Better yet,
Ms./Mr. should have told us that the author is apparently engaged
in a high-stake worldwide campaign to push Japan onto the U.N. Security
Council as a permanent member and push China, at present represented
unfortunately by the CCP, off its rightful and permanent seat on the
same body.  Why should he be given any credibility at all?

        Here's the real irony about HK: the more democratic and open the
Mainland becomes, the fewer concessions the stateless politicians in HK will
get.  THE CCP REMAINS THEIR BEST BET.  To kick away the CCP's terms is to
damage the economy of HK and make its people lesser players in the dazzling
dramas now unfolding in the Chinese world than they are entitled to by virtue
of their birthrights as Chinese.  Only people who hate Chinese or are jealous
of HK would benefit from that kind of dangerous maneuvers.  Only the CCP can
afford to ignore public opinions in the Mainland and offer the terms the HK
politicians are now getting.  Any other national administration would not have
been nearly so accommodating.  That's for sure.
From: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Sichuan U Alumni
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:21:32 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsf.csd.mu.edu


--------- Sichuan University Alumni Net -------

We are trying to set up a net connecting Alumni from Sichuan University (SU)
(Chengdu). The current purpose of this net is to communicate.
If interested, please send your information to this address: 
5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu.
You may use the following format:

Name          Major         Grade      Current School

Ran, Yujun    Physics       80         Marquette U. (WI)
Jang, Bo      Math          85         Marquette U. (WI)


We will distributing the updated list to the SU net. We currently has 10 people 
on this net.


Thank You.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Luo Wang <lwang@MARINER.AMC.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Enough is enough! Patriotism Argument!
Reply-To: Luo Wang <lwang@MARINER.AMC.EDU.AU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:49:16 GMT
Comments: cc: China Net <CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> This message itself is truly nonsense.  Is there anything that is not a matter
> of discussion?  Do you know how much literature has been devoted to the

Of course, there many out there.

> discussion of reliougious issues in Western theology and philosophy?

Yes, I know what you mean. But you have to remember that the discussion of
religious issues in Western theology and philosophy are the professional
discussions which are as specialsed as your guys' area such as
science and engineering and so on. You guy's AMATEUR nonsense over the
patriotism would never be qualified as promissing as a professional
disucussion. That is why I ask you guy to stop.

> that have ever been brought up in the history of China-Net.  This is so
 because
> "patriotism" is one of the most misleading but powerful words that
> the mojority of people endorse without a critical examination of their true
> meaning and implications.  People usually have a strong feeling about it
> but do not understand the rationale behind it.

Even though I agree with you on it, I still believe that, if you are not
specialised in the relevant areas such as politics or philosophy, don't
jump into the argument, if you are political scientist or something alike,
you'd better check your opponents' specialty before you develop a
discussion with him or her.

I found most arguments on the net have been based upon your guys value
judgement which certainly will lead you to an endless and meanless debate.
If you realy insisit on it, you'd better move the argument exclusively to
talk.politics.china, or soc.culture.china, so to save other people's
time to delete your guy's nonsense.

BTW, the net should be primarily used for communication purpose rather
than "Educating" others, no matter how good you think your idea is.

Luo Wang

Australia
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: dzhuo@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dongpei Zhuo)
Subject: 55th Anniversary of Rape of Nanking (Nanjing Massacre)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:46:14 GMT

I read from some newspaper that December 17th is the 55th anniversary of
one of the darkest periods in the history - on that day in 1937 the
Japanese Imperial Army started their brutal Rape of Nanking
(Nanjing Massacre).

I suggest posting memorial articles on the net to remind people of this
incident.  Many non-Chinese do not know that this actually happened. Instead,
most people know Japan suffered two atomic bombs, as if that was the most
tragic scene in the WWII, although in fact over 10 million Chinese died
as the result of the war.  As the Japanese emperor visited China this year,
we should also remind ourselves of this moment we should never forget.

Maybe somebody can compile some news accounts in the newspapers at that
time or any quotation from books on this subject and post them in all
the history-related and other related newsgroups.

What do you think of this suggestion?

Dongpei Zhuo
University of California, Irvine
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell)
Subject: Re: Libertarians need a newsgroup.
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 19:48:08 GMT

kunorml@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>  I believe it is time for the Libertarians to have their own newsgroup.

alt.politics.libertarian
alt.individualism

I read both.

Now, if you mean an official hierarchy group, yeah, there isn't one yet.


>  The hemp movement could use one as well.

There aren't any newsgroups dedicated to the subject, though they get
talked about on here and alt.drugs.


Feel free to open requests for discussion on either of these topics through
the official Usenet channels.  You'll get my vote.

-- 
 davE.   Making the world safe for intelligent dance music.  dave@bradley.edu.
########## David L. Vessell -- Bradley University Computing Services #########
  "I generally don't sing along with people who tie me up." - Robin Williams
Xref: sparky talk.politics.drugs:8016 alt.drugs:20041
From: glazier@isr.harvard.edu (Andrew Baker Glazier)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.drugs
Subject: Frying one's brain / DMT
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:56:50 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

Personally,  I'd never heard of DMT before reading about it here, but it's
getting to be really annoying. Every post on it contradicts the one before
it, especially on the issue of its legality. I would appreciate some
attribution of sources for this info.

I would also like to know (and again, don't bother posting if you can't
attribute; there are too many ULs as is) whether it is true that lysergic
drugs (ie manufactured LSD, shrooms, MG seeds) have a permanent (which is
not to say negative) effect on brain activity, and whether the chemical
remains in one's system or is eventually dispelled
-- 
"A horse! A horse! Somebody give me a horse, man, because|glazier@ 
I come to bury this dirtball, not to praise him. Whaddya |harvard.isr.edu
think I am? Whether it's nobler for the mind to make people suffer with all
these totally outrageous arrows arrows for a fortune, or what!" -- D.R.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: km9985@sarah.albany.edu (MADIGAN KEVIN M)
Subject: question regarding job application
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: talk.politics.drugs
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:18:20 GMT

The following appears at the bottom of "Application for Academic
Positions, University of Cantral Florida":
====================================== 
Have you ever been convicted of a felony or first degree misdemeanor? If
yes, what charge(s)?

NOTE: A "yes" to this question will not necessarily bar you from employment.
The nature, severity and date of the offense in relation to the position for
which you are applying are considered.

Have you ever been convicted of a felony for the sale or trafficking in or
conspiracy to traffic in a controlled substance committed in or after 
October 1990? If the answer is yes, Chapter 893, F.S. requires you to contact
the Employment Division for additional background information before you can
be considered for employment with the State University System.

Employees of the University of Central Florida, as in all other State agencies,
are required to take the Oath of Loyalty to the United States and the 
State of Florida.
======================================

This has me steamed! Is this constitutional? If I write them and tell them
how I feel about this, do I end up on some "subversives" list?

What is the deal with this? It seems rather intrusive. The loyalty oath bit
seems rather unamaerican.


Kevin
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.drugs
From: bagg@ellis.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott)
Subject: Re: Frying one's brain / DMT
Reply-To: bagg@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:56:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.012348.441@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>bagg@ellis.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott) writes:

>: Mushrooms (exluding fly agaric) are not lysergic drugs, their active 
>: components are tryptamines.  The only permanent effects of LSD and its close

>Unless if misremember, the drugs in A. Muscaria (fly agaric) are not lysergic
>compounds either.

You are correct.  I changed sentences midstream and forgot to drop the
parenthetical comment.  Thanks for pointing that out.

>Bill

  --M@
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: A Congress In Favor of Hemp
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:20:05 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

muwjt@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (William J. Taney) writes:
>decriminalizing marijuana... She DOES FAVOR decriminalizing MJ for small
>qtys and medical use.. She has been on the record as saying that.... She

>political reasons... She is not exactly an outspoken advocate on the
>subject, however she is definatly an enlightend individual and will make a
>wonderful Senator...

	If you dig socialism and gun bans, then yes, she will make a 
	wonderful Senator.

	She also was involved in some welfare fraud, which indicates she
	may have the aptitude to do well in the Senate enviornment.

Jim Del Vecchio
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: bagg@ellis.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott)
Subject: Re: Frying one's brain / DMT
Reply-To: bagg@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:26:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.185650.1256@burrhus.harvard.edu> glazier@isr.harvard.edu (Andrew Baker Glazier) writes:
>Personally,  I'd never heard of DMT before reading about it here, but it's
>getting to be really annoying. Every post on it contradicts the one before
>it, especially on the issue of its legality. I would appreciate some
>attribution of sources for this info.

McKenna and Towers did a good minireview of tryptamines and beta-carbolines
in _Journal of Psychoactive Drugs_ Vol 16(4) Oct-Dec 1984, p. 347-358.

More recently, Rick Strassman wrote an article on the difficulties of
doing human research with DMT in the same journal (Vol 23(1), Jan-Mar 1991,
p. 29-38).

Said articles back up the contentions that DMT is in Schedule 1, is
smokable but not orally active, and has a short duration.  

>I would also like to know (and again, don't bother posting if you can't
>attribute; there are too many ULs as is) whether it is true that lysergic
>drugs (ie manufactured LSD, shrooms, MG seeds) have a permanent (which is
>not to say negative) effect on brain activity, and whether the chemical
>remains in one's system or is eventually dispelled

Mushrooms (exluding fly agaric) are not lysergic drugs, their active 
components are tryptamines.  The only permanent effects of LSD and its close
relatives seem to be mediated through psychological and cognitive
mechanisms.  That is, you're permanently changed by any experience you
have and acid isn't any different, but nothing more profound seems
to be going on.  A good review of the long-term effects of psychedelics is
contained in Grinspoon and Bakalar's _Psychedelics Reconsidered_.

>-- 
>"A horse! A horse! Somebody give me a horse, man, because|glazier@ 
>I come to bury this dirtball, not to praise him. Whaddya |harvard.isr.edu
>think I am? Whether it's nobler for the mind to make people suffer with all
>these totally outrageous arrows arrows for a fortune, or what!" -- D.R.
From: Max Monningh <mmonningh@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Date: 20 Dec 92 14:11 PST
Subject: IMI meeting on 27 December!
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1484000080:000:267
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mmonningh    Dec 20 14:11:00 1992


Just a reminder that the next meeting of the Illinois Marijuana Initiative will
be Sunday 27 December at the Woodridge Public Library from 2 to 4. 

Agenda topics include voting for directors.

Be there!


max monningh
IMI phone line: (708)859-0499
mmonningh@igc.org

Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs