From: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee)
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:29:45 GMT

In <SLAGLE.92Jul24233540@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.161346.17720@unlinfo.unl.edu>, rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:

>> Mark, as I understand your arguement you wish to sweep religion out of
>> government, out of the parks, and the streets, and hold it hostage in
>> a few stone building we call mosques, synagogues, temples....  I
>> dismiss this.  I think an non-governmental organizations can pick
>> whatever level of religious participation they wish.  This is the
>> american experiment.  Many (perhaps most) who came to this country,
>> sought the freedom to do just that.

>I'm not trying to push religion anywhere, Robert.  I just
>don't see the necessity of using it as a litmus test for
>participation in the Boy Scouts.  You can have your religion,
>and you can practice it anywhere you want, as far as I am
>concerned.  I am certainly not calling for any kind of legal
>sanctions here, but I am arguing for MY beliefs just as you
>are for yours.  It is your stand for exclusivity, not mine.
>I would be quite happy to share the Boy Scouts and any other
>non-government organization with you and anyone else without
>regard to religious beliefs, or lack of them.  Have I even
>suggested that I would like some sort of oath of unbelief to
>parallel your requirement for a loyalty oath to god?

>You're about a hairs breadth from suggesting that my stand
>is one of anti-religious bigotry in your statement that I
>quote above.  That is at best a gross distortion of what I
>have written.  I would appreciate it if you would back off
>that contention please.

Alright Mark, I'm sorry if I'm distorting your beliefs but maybe you 
can help me out here.  Do you have problems with the BSA in particular
or in general are you claiming most/all organizations should be open 
to all, including atheists?

If it's the latter I find this a problem as I believe it infringes on 
first amendment rights.  Right up there with free speech, press, and 
the right to religion not defined by government is the right to 
"peaceably to assemble", i.e. join groups with a common interest.  I 
seek to protect that right, not only legalistically, but by stating 
that such groups are a good thing in a society, just as numerous 
species are a good thing in an ecological system.

I also sense that part of your arguement is based on the idea that
you don't seek to add an oath, or exclude anything or anyone and
therefore that is a good thing. My problem is that I believe in
practice, admitting atheists would eliminate or more appropriately
*exclude* a religious orientation in an organization, and thus
exclude persons seeking that level or religiousness in an
organization.  In short this is also an exclusionary policy.  After
all, how could an organization have an oath about duty to God and
Country that wouldn't offend atheists.  If they were to be full
members it seems the oath and reverent must leave the BSA program.

At this point I think you or others bring up that in fact these
aren't part of the program.  They aren't important. They are easily
eliminated with no impact on the program.  All I can say is that is 
not my experience here.

Yours In Scouting
Bob Losee
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