From: mcclaine@hardy.u.washington.edu (Robert Casey)
Subject: Re: More warp/s'date babble...
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:00:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.133243.24967@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>> >
>> >According to Sternbach's/Okuda's technical manual, warp factors work like this:
>> >
>> >Warp factor 1 = 1     x the speed of light
>> >            2 = 10
>> >            3 = 39
>> >            4 = 102
>> >            5 = 214
>> >            6 = 392
>> >            7 = 656 
>> >            8 = 1024
>> >            9 = 1516
>> >          9.2 = 2000 (estimate from graph. on page 55)
>> >          9.6 = 2500 (              "                )
>> >


>> 
>> 	As a final point on warp speeds.  I found the Okuda/Sternbach speed
>> 	figures to be to far off to fit with what we are familiar with in 
>> 	Star Trek.  How long do you suppose it takes a starship to get from
>> 	Earth to the Klingon border?  A day?  A week?  3 months? 
>> 
>> 	If all of you fans whip out your Starlog Technical Journal and do a
>> 	little measuring, you will find that by proportion, since the galaxy
>> 	is approximately 100,000 ly across, a straight shot to the Klingon
>> 	border would be a trip of about 10,500 ly from Earth.  Will this 
>> 	take three months?  No, if the Enterprise went at the new scale speed
>> 	of Warp 9 or 1516 times c, it would take 6.9 YEARS to get there!
>
>10,500ly to the Klingon border? Hogwash! We know from Star Trek II:TWOK that the
>neutral zone is in the vicinity of Gamma Hydrae, some 120ly from the Sun. In
>"Heart of Glory," we are being told that a subspace message [moving at
>50,000ly/year] needs one day to reach Earth from the neutral zone =150ly.
>The "Federation Exploration Zone" may or may not be correct, but we haven't
>seen it in any of the movies or the TV episodes.
> 

	It is refreshing to see these figures.  I would be more inclined to
believe the distances you have brought forth...and indeed they would make
the Tech Manual's values more believable.


>> On the Myerson scale, however, a warp 9
>> 	trip would take about 2 1/2 months.  I feel this is a little more 
>> 	reasonable.   However, even on this scale, the Enterprise A would
>> 	take about a year at it's max speed of warp 8!  


>
>Bzzztt! Where does it say that *MANNED* spacecraft have ventured some 10,000
>ly. into space?! All we know is that the Technical Journal map [which is 
>"canon" BTW as it was seen hanging on a wall in one episode] shows an area
>covering most of the galaxy's spiral arms on our side of the Milky Way, some
>19% of all stars fit inside. So far, so good. But the 
>Klingon/Federation/Romulan border that have been drawn on the map afterwards 
>are courtesy of the people who wrote the manual - we don't know this from
>watching the TV series!

	Good point.  And I will point out that you have used the shows quite
well to support your arguments.  Perhaps the map I looked at is faulty or
subject to misinterpretation.

>---
> We know that almost all
>"real" stars (Sol, Gamma Hydrae, Capella, Altair etc.) are within 200ly of the
>Solar system. If the Federation were much larger than that, one would expect to
>hear few "local" systems being mentioned, even with our own sun in the middle. 
>In addition, with the huge number of inhabited star systems within 50ly of our
>Sun, there has to be MILLIONS of planets that are UFP members if Federation 
>space indeed is, say, 10,000ly across. This is a common problem for most Star
>Trek writers, they just don't realize how damn big the galaxy is! My own
>estimate is that most Federation worlds are within 500ly. of the Solar system.
>In addition, there are "arms" reaching out to Deneb (1800ly) and Rigel (900ly)
>among others, with inhabited planets and colonies near this "railway" to the
>outer limits. This is how the Mountain states in America were colonized,
>California and Oregon were the main targets for most immigrants but there were
>also small towns, forts and camps between the Pacific coast and St.Louis that
>grew like mushrooms close to the railway that transported the golddiggers. I
>believe that is why there is no shortage of Federation worlds for the 
>Enterprise to visit while 1500ly from the Sun - they are on Highway One to
>Deneb!
>---
>The remaining 99% of explored space has been surveyed by remote, unmanned
>probes but no starships. We know that the alien"Tin Man" spacecraft 
>originally was discovered by a
>Vega IX automatic probe and sending out small, semi-intelligent probes on long
>journeys that would take decades even for the Enterprise makes sense,
>particularly from a financial point of view.  

>MARCU$

	Thank you Marcu$, your input has been most valuable.  You present
very believable points and have restored my faith in the Tech Manual to a
greater degree.  All any of us want to do is get down to is what is the right
interpretation of Treknology and what is 'hogwash'.


	_/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/    NEW FOR 1993: 
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	Robert E. Casey  (mcclaine@hardy.u.washington.edu)