From: harryb@phred.UUCP (harry barnett)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Casual nudity
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:52:59 GMT
Reply-To: harryb@phred.UUCP
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: usa
Organization: Physio-Control

In article 92Dec7141436@satyr.Sylvan.COM, tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>
>   I always wonder how these kids who are broght up in homes where nudity is
>   discouraged (especially where the childs nudity is also discouraged) deal
>   with locker rooms when they finally have to face it. 
>
>My goodness - I'd forgotten about that.
>
>I was raised in a household where I NEVER saw my parents nude. If I
>accidently walked into the bathroom on one of them, it was a big deal.

Same here.

>
>I did have a hard time changing my clothing at the local YMCA after my
>swim classes, even as a young child. I always thought that I had to be
>covered up. I was very uncomfortable in the high school locker room,
>and *never* took a shower, even though they were available, because
>that would have left me exposed for longer.

The revelation that group nudity "OK", as opposed to our private
household habits, came about because my Dad got a membership for all of
us in a "Family" YMCA.  This particular YMCA had regular scheduled swim
periods called "Men's Open" swims.  You had to be classified as an
adult to participate, or a child could participate as a guest of, and
under the supervision of a parent or other adult.  (No lifeguards.)  I
recall being startled the first time my Dad took me (age 10) to one of
these, and informed me I didn't need a swimming suit.  He stripped and
headed for the pre-swim shower with me right behind.  We soaped down
and rinsed, and walked out into the pool area (STRANGE feeling, first
time I had ever been in an area that big, publicly naked) and saw 20-25
other men and boys enjoying the swimming.  I immediately dove into the
water and was exhilarated and startled by the "slick fish" feel of
"skinny-dipping".  My transition to being at home in the environment
took about two seconds flat.  I credit this to the "no big deal"
attitude of everyone involved.  My parents had never disapproved of
nudity, it was just something, they, and their kids, DIDN"T DO at
home.

>
>That's all a distant memory - with my currently clothing optional
>household and hot tub in the backyard... although I do tend to cover
>up when guests visit, unless I'm just coming out of the shower or
>we're in the hot tub.
>-- 

Well, with me, it's a distant memory, with annoying reverberations from
time to time that only occur in the presence of females.  Nagging
little hangups remain even though neither my wife nor myself are shy
about appearing nude in front of the children at home, should necessity
require it.  However, this doesn't prevent me from being startled from
time to time.  For example, last week I had left our bedroom door open
as I dropped my trousers about to my knees and had just sat down on a
cedar chest to take my shoes off to change clothes, when my nearly 15YO
daughter burst out of her bedroom and into ours (since I hadn't shut
the door) with a "Hey, Dad!  Look at what I did!" sort of thing,
thought nothing about interrupting my act of undressing, and ran up and
sat down on the chest next to me and waxed forth for about 30 seconds
about I-don't-remember-what pointing to stuff on some papers she had
with her, bounced up and ran off to do something else, totally
oblivious.  'S not HER hangup, it's MINE!  I hadn't "given the sign"
(closed bedroom door) that I wanted privacy.

On reflection, I realized it was having my privacy unexpectedly invaded
in the act of undressing that caused my consternation, not nudity.
Frankly, I'm happy that the kids use clothing for comfort, protection,
and decoration, and the idea of viewing it as a moral imperative
appears not to even enter their mind, a condition which is, IMHO,
mentally healthy, inasmuch as they are tolerant and gracious about
other's views on the matter.

My view of the family nudity matter is that if moral imperative is
someone's schtick, then fine, impose it on yourself:  just don't try to
lay a guilt trip on me and mine.  I've had quite enough of that to last
me for the rest of my life thank you very much.

>
>Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
>tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
>                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92
>
> "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
> children become humane and strong."
> 
>              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish


harryb@phred

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Brittanius (shocked):  Caesar, this is not proper.
Theodotus (outraged):  How?
Caesar (recovering his self possession):  Pardon him, Theodotus:  He is
a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and islands are
the laws of nature.

		--Caesar and Cleopatra, Act II, George Bernard Shaw
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Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.culture.asian.american