From: gunars@spss.com (Gunars V Lucans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CSCE minority commissioner on LATVIA
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:37:30 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>In article <gunars.727993015@spssig> gunars@spss.com (Gunars V Lucans) writes:
>>goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>>>In article <1993Jan23.145409.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>CSCE COMMISSIONER ON MINORITY RIGHTS IN LATVIA. CSCE High
>>>>Commissioner on Minorities Max van der Stoel told Latvian Supreme
>>>>Council Chairman Anatolijs Gorbunovs and Foreign Minister Georgs
>>>>Andrejevs that he had not observed any abuses of ethnic minority
>>>>rights of non-Latvians who are citizens of the republic,
>>
>>>    Of course, because there no such a thing as a non-Latvian 
>>>    citizen of Latvia.  Even half-Latvians can't become 
>>>    a citizen.
>>
>>That's sheer nonsense.  There is no such legislation nor is
>>citizenship in any way restricted to ethnic Latvians.

>    I would be much surprised if the Latvian goverment had such
>    a law on the books, nor do they need one to discriminate.
>    In fact, they are better of having no citizenship laws at
>    all.  This way no matter what they do, no law gets broken.

There is no citizenship or naturalization law passed as yet that
covers those who migrated to Latvia during the occupation, having no
prior roots there.  The fact that it's taking so long is a big
problem, but reflects on the complexity of the issues involved as well
as the divergent viewpoints of many people.  However, the example you
presented doesn't fit this category but falls under an _existing_ law
that grants citizenship to those who were citizens of the Republic of
Latvia and their descendants.  Since your friend's mother was a
citizen of the Republic of Latvia, your friend is a citizen as well
with no restrictions regarding ethnicity of one or both parents, no
residency requirement and no language requirement.

>>>    A couple of weeks ago I received a letter from somebody whose late 
>>>    mother was an ethnic Latvian and a citizen of Latvia (born there
>>>    before 1940, lived there all her life, and buried in Riga). 
>>>    That person is being denied citizenship because of non-Latvian
>>>    father.
>>
>>Is this the same person you've mentioned in the past?  There are
>>several possiblities:

>    Yes, it is the same person.

>>
>>1) There are other reasons that you or your friend have not mentioned
>>why citizenship was denied.  Simply having a non-Latvian father is
>>not the reason.

>    I believe the official reason was "inadequate language skills",
>    or something like that - this friend of mine speaks fluent
>    Latvian, but with - the ultimate speechcrime! - an accent.

Yesterday, the reason was a non-Latvian father and today it is an
unacceptable accent?  What will it be tomorrow, bad breath?  Alex, I
think it's high time you found out what exactly is the problem with
this mysterious person you keep trotting out.


>    Aside from the citizenship requirements, Latvian residents
>    must now all take a language test to get a job.  Those who
>    receive the lowest of three grades can only apply for menial
>    low-paying jobs, regardless of their educational and/or 
>    professional background.

>    The highest grade is reserved exclusively for native Latvian
>    speakers.  Naturally, they get the best jobs too (goverment,
>    managerial, academy, etc.).

There are some language exams that pertain to government employees and
certain public sector jobs such as hospitals.  What you are seeing is
the end of the discrimination of the occupation government in which
Latvians needed to learn Russian to survive in their own country.


>>2) Some public official is doing something illegal.  Although this is
>>certainly possible, it would be a relatively isolated case.
>>Otherwise, most of the non-Latvians who had citizenship in 1940 (25%)
>>and their descendents would have certainly mentioned something to one
>>of the human rights inspection teams (US, CSCE, CE, UN, etc) that have
>>been visiting the country every few weeks.

>    No, this is a rule, not exception.  At to the human rights
>    inspection teams not finding any violations, during WWII 
>    Red Cross teams inspecting German concentration camps
>    reported no atrocities either.

Red Cross teams found no atrocities in Germany; human rights teams are
finding no violations now; therefore, there must be atrocities now.
Is this really your argument?


>>3) You or your friend are lying.

>    You, as a Latvian-American, might be more interested in 
>    promoting Latvia's image abroad, yet nobody accuses you
>    of lying.

Nor did I accuse you, Alex, of lying.  I simply listed it as one of
only four possible choices.  I put it towards the end of the list as
well.  The only choice of lower probability was that there really
exists legislation barring your friend from being a citizen because
her father is an ethnic Russian.


>    I am going to find one of those letters - I get them on 
>    a regular basis - translate it, and post it to this 
>    newsgroup.  It is going to be fun to read, I promise.

Great, I don't get a chance to read fiction much lately :-).

--
Gunars V. Lucans  --  gunars@spss.com  --  SPSS Inc, Chicago, USA