HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esa@acpub.duke.edu (EMILY ANGERER)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: vibrato in singing early music
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:46:45 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

There has been some dispute over whether vibrato is 'natural' at all,
and if so, how much?  I myself am a soprano and have always prided
myself on the lack of vibrato in my voice.  This was ideal for singing
early music, and I have done an extensive amount of both choral
religious music and madrigals and solo folk songs and madrigals.  I have
been studying voice privately for about four years, singing mostly that
type of music, and my voice teacher and I have never worked on
developing vibrato.  However, in just the past six months, my vibrato
has emerged, much to my chagrin.  It is still a very light vibrato, but
I must attribute it to the natural maturing of my voice.  I would say
that it is natural for children to have little to no vibrato -- if they
have any it is either forced or a wobble.  In adults, however, the vocal
chords are more developed and more flexible as a rule.  Trained singers 
are taught to relax the vocal chords -- the sound is produced by the air 
flowing over them, and the air and the support originate far below the 
vocal chords themselves.  Since the muscles there are relaxed, it is 
feasible that they will move slightly in a very free way, producing some 
vibrato.  This would explain why trained singers have more vibrato than 
untrained, in general.  In my opinion, it would be a most unnatural sound 
to try to keep the throat tissues from moving at all.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong on all of this.  I do think that
some vibrato is 'natural' in a mature voice, but excessive vibrato is in
most cases (but by no means all) forced as badly as no vibrato.

-Emily Angerer
From: ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Bach's 2nd keyboard partita, keyboard fingering
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:43:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24136
Reply-To: ark@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ

In article <tlukka.721327641@snakemail.hut.fi> tlukka@lk-hp-6.hut.fi (Tuomas J. Lukka) writes:

> I was just wondering, how is it possible to fluently and easily
> finger the fifth bar after the repeat in the Capriccio of
> Bach's keyboard partita number 2 C minor. (clavieruebung part I)

I suppose the left hand is the problem.  My copy (Edition Henle) suggests:

	1   3 1 2 1 2 1
	5       4   5
-- 
				--Andrew Koenig
				  ark@europa.att.com
From: GONTER@AWIWUW11.BITNET (Gerhard Gonter)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Administrativa, subscription records
Date: 4 Nov 92 18:15:08 GMT
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello,
  a few subscribers of EARLYM-L@AEARN.bitnet as well as of
CERRO-L@AEARN.bitnet might have received (and some more will receive)
two notes from LISTSERV@AEARN.bitnet that indicate a change in their
subscription record.
 
*** Please, Don't Panic ***  Here's what happened (or might happen):
 
The notes have the following contents:
1.  an unsubscription notification indicating that
    user%node.domain@CUNYVM
    was removed from the list
2.  a subscription notification indicating that
    user@node.domain
    was added to the list
 
You're still registered on the list, only at a different address.
 
This move was necessary because for technical reasons their subscription
record contained information about a Bitnet to Internet gateway.  Since
the node AEARN.bitnet was moved to a new internet node,
AEARN.EDVZ.univie.ac.at it was not longer necessary to route everything
through CUNYVM.bitnet.
 
I decided to send these notifications to allow subscribers to check
their current subscription info for correctness.
 
Again: *** Please, Don't Panic ****
 
best wishes, Gerhard Gonter
 
p.s:   if you have any further question, please drop me a note
p.p.s: if you decide to drop me a note, please make sure that
       you turn off your caps lock :)
 
--
Gerhard Gonter                                   <GONTER@AWIWUW11.BITNET>
Tel: +43/1/31336/4111     Fax: .../702     <Gerhard.Gonter@wu-wien.ac.at>
From: hcresnic@quads.uchicago.edu (hugh carney resnick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: vibrato in a cappella renaissance music
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:06:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov6.230605.22787
Reply-To: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


	As a singer, I have found it difficult to sing vibrato-less without
constricting one's vocal cords to the point where it's destructive. Especially
if you have been taught to sing with vibrato, as most young American singers 
have, putting in the requisite amount of breath will almost invariably produce
a vibrato (am I right, voice teachers?). However, it is not impossible, and one
can be trained to have the laser-like tone that Emma Kirkby produces, but try
"Vesti la giubba" with that tone and see how far you get. The Hilliard Ensemble
Does not try to eliminate vibrato in their singing (i.e. they do not try to 
"blend").
	Vibrato is natural and good in its proper place and singing with a
reasonable amount of it works well in a lot of places, and hearing The Tallis 
Scholars, the Sixteen, The Hilliard Ensemble and the Cambridge Singers one
after another will give you a good range of the possibilities of singing 
vibrato-less.
	Another interesting recording using straight-tone singing with later 
music is the harmonia mundi recording of the Brahms motets conducted by 
Philippe Herreweghe.

hugh

P.S. Any suggestions of recordings with bad use of "renaissance vibrato-less
singing"?
-- 
___________________________________________________
Hugh C. Resnick (hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu)
"They told us what they wanted was a sound that
could kill someone from a distance." - K. Bush
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: mike@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Mike W. Burger)
Subject: very modern + very old
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:16:28 GMT


	In modern rock and (gag) Heavy Metal music, electronic
synthesizers are used with hardware and computer sequencers so much
that the very definition of "live" performance has been called
into question.

	In attempting to put together a performance of early music
centered around recorders, the question comes up; How to fill out
the group?  Even finding a harpsichord can be tricky, authentic
bass instruments very tricky, contrabass recorders may well be
asking too much.

	Yet, with care and good research coupled with a highly
sophisticated modern electronic synthesizer all of these are
available.  They can be played with input devices like the
WX-11 wind controller or from standard keyboards in real time,
or if you are short of players, by one of the modern computer
programs on the MIDI network.

	The question is, how much of this is acceptable.  Would
you rather listen to a consort of recorders in the usual sizes
playing in 4 foot range, or would you be willing to accept a
computer adding bass and keyboard to round out the performance
of several human bass, tenor and even alto recorder players in
the eight foot range?

	On the one hand, even small groups can put together
performances featuring "authentic" sounds of mixed consorts.
On the other hand, part of the "performance" is "canned", even
though working up the computer parts and fine tuning them to
have some expressiveness would be a considerable task.  At
least they could keep good time and be counted upon to
not muff their parts :-)

	Would the modern electronics be too much of a conflict
of cultures?  Would it be fun to hear?  Would you feel ripped
off that some of the performance is not exactly recorded, but
not performed by humans in real time?  What about the inclusion
of something as wierd as a WX-11 wind controller set up as
a contrabass recorder?  Would the visual impact of the wierd
futuristic plastic thing make it impossible to enjoy Baroque music?

	Or, is all this concern about mixing very modern electronic
instruments with very old wind instruments silly, and I should get
on with the fun?


Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: Clavichord building.
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Ordinatio
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:12:10 GMT

Greetings!

   I'm thinking of building a clavichord.  Could someone either email me or post  
information?  What I'm looking for are guidelines, what to do (when building), 
what to watch out for et cetera.  Phones and addresses of kit suppliers and which
ones to use as well.  Thank you in advance for your time!

					Bohdan



Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: hcresnic@quads.uchicago.edu (hugh carney resnick)
Subject: Re: vibrato in singing early music
Reply-To: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:33:26 GMT

Everybody has vibrato in their voice, everybody.
People like Emma Kirkby have (acc. to her) have learned to control the rate
and width of her vibrato. She has a _very_ fast, thin vibrato, so that the 
audience is hard-pressed to tell whether there is any wobble in her voice.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
	  Hugh C. Resnick (hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu)
"Mother, please, is it just a disease?" - Moribund the Burgermeister
___________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: RE: Harpsichords as Do-it-yourself
From: GONTER@AWIWUW11.BITNET
Date: 12 Nov 1992 17:32:08 +0100
Organization: University of Alabama School of Music
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Comments: From: root@tbf.musicnet.ua.edu

(This mail was trapped by listserv)
 
From: root@tbf.musicnet.ua.edu
---------------------------- resent message -----------------------------
Re: Re: Harpsichords as Do-it-yourself
By: Tom Knotts <knotts #0 @HPL-OPUS.HPL.HP.COM> Internet
 
> Does Zuckermann still sell kits? I was under the impression that
> they stopped because poorly-made kits were bad for their reputation.
 
Two questions:  1)  How much *is* the Zucke kit
                2)  How bad is it?
 
R
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: vibrato in singing early music
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:25:01 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.210219.7026@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> scott@fido.cs.jhu.edu (Scott Smith) writes:
...
>2) "Traditional" professional singers of other cultures use less
>vibrato.  It is not constant as with western singers, it is more an
>ornament.  Listen to recordings of classical Chinese, Indian,
>Middle-Eastern singers and you will see.  Its a bit hard to tell with
>Indian singers because there is so much ornamentation.  Modern music
>in these cultures often has extensive vibrato.  Some Chinese "pop"
>singers in particular use a lot of vibrato.

Some comments on this list: the quality of voice Indian singing varies
quite a bit depending mainly on the "school" or tradition that the singer
comes out of. Some use vibrato rather consistently (though much less than
Western classical singers), others use it sparingly as an ornament, others
use it very little if at all. In general, the quality of voice is not an
aesthetic priority in Indian classical music when compared to improvisa-
tion ability, virtuosity, and intonation. Because vibrato blurs the subtle
shades of tuning that are so important in much of this music, its use is
often very restricted. Wide vibrato is common in Westernized Indian popu-
lar music, but the very nasal tone common among female vocalists is retained.

I would also add certain African cultures to this list, as well as some
from Central Asia, and Native American cultures. Use of vibrato also varies
quite a bit in Indonesia, though it seems to becoming more popular among
the pesinden, or female vocal soloists.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: 880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: "[portative organs] as do-it-yourself"
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:30:27 GMT
Organization: Acadia University


 A friend of mine has been doing some research into the building of 
Medieval and Renaissance portative organs; do any of you know anything 
about this matter, or can any of you direct me to some good sources on the 
same?
                                                -Mike
From: mike@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Mike McDonnell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Harpsichords as Do-it-yourself
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:31:39 GMT
Organization: Engineer Topographic Labs, Ft. Belvoir, VA

There are some very good reasons for making your own harpsichord.
I am currently making an Italian style harpsichord based on historical
models.  There is no kit available for an Italian harpsichord.

As usual in netgroup discussions, there has been a lack of good
information on this topic, so here are some sources:

BOOKS:

The bible is "Three Centuries of Harpsichord Making" by Frank Hubbard
published by Harvard University Press ISBN 0-674-88845-6.  You can
also buy this book from Hubbard Harpsichords, Inc (address below)

A good book I stumbled across in a local library is "Making Musical
Instruments" edited by Charles Ford and published by Pantheon Books of
New York.  Chapter 5 "The Harpsichord" was written by Michael Johnson,
who seems to be a British maker.  It is full of neat tricks and hints,
though he does not mention the all-important technique of shrinking
the soundboard before gluing it in.

KITS AND SUPPLIES:

Hubbard Harpsichords, Inc.
144 Moody St.
Waltham, MA 02154
They have good kits and sell jacks, strings, etc as well.
They also sell Frank Hubbard's book.  The business is run by Frank
Hubbard's widow, Diane.  She is very friendly and they ship everywhere
in the world.  With the current state of the dollar versus foreign
currencies, they are also cheap for folks overseas.

D. Jacques Way and Zuckermann Harpsichords, Inc.
15 Williams Street, Box 151
Stonington, CT 
also in France at 
24, Rue J.-J. Rousseau
93100 Montreuil-sous-bois (Paris)
They are quite a bit more expensive than Hubbard, but they
make a very nice kit and maybe you can buy supplies from them as well.

INSTRUMENT-GRADE WOOD:

Gilmer Wood Co.
2211 N.W. St. Helens Rd.
Portland, OR 

In Europe:
Theodor Nagel G.M.B.H.
Postfach 28 02 66
D2 Hamburg 28
Germany

BLUEPRINTS:

The Smithsonian Institution
Musical Instrument Division
Washington, DC 

Other museums sell blueprints too, as was mentioned.  There is a guy
named R. K. Lee up in Massachusetts who has made some very nice
precise drawings of instruments using close-range photogrammetry.  If
there is interest, I'll get his address.

AND NOW, SOME OF MY OWN QUESTIONS:

Where is a source of supplies for harpsichords?  There was a marvelous
company in Seattle called "The Instrument Workshop" which had
everything your little heart could desire in the way of harpsichord
supplies and wood, but the owner just recently went out of business 8-(.
So, does anybody know of a similar place to get stuff?  By a miserable
coincidence another company called "Tuners Supply Co." which also had
some supplies for harpsichords just went out of business too. 8-( 8-(

Where is a source of instrument-grade wood in the eastern U.S. ?
In particular, I would like to get quartered white spruce for the
soundboard.  That's European spruce (Picea Alba?).  I would expecially
like someplace I could drive to from the D.C. area so I can select the
wood myself.
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: scott@rhombus.cs.jhu.edu (Scott Smith)
Subject: Re: vibrato in singing early music
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:57:17 GMT


Yes, it is a mistake to use the word "natural" when speaking of amount
of vibrato, because there is no meaningful standard to judge what that
means.  We can ask what the norm is for music making worldwide, and
observe that western classical music as performed today is near the
maximum of this spectrum.

Another question we can reasonably ask is what is musical.  And here I
can state my opinion, that anything to the extremes of very little or
very large vibrato is nearly always less musical.  Just an opinion
from listening, no basis in anything scientific.  I find a number of
early music voices, including Kirkby, to be somewhat sterile, and on
the other hand find modern opera singers to be too pitch-insensitive
and lacking in nuance.  A singer I like a lot is Monserrat Figueras
(sp?)  of Hesperion XX.  Her vibrato is a natural part of the emotion
of her voice, thats what I like the most about her is the great
emotion to her voice, it gives meaning to the music.  

Scott
--

------------------------------
Scott Smith, scott@cs.jhu.edu
------------------------------
From: jrussell@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU (john russell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: RE: Cantigas
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:51:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: unl.9211062051.AA04300
In-reply-to: <9211062040.AA03799@unl.edu>; from "Julie Lehrman" at Nov 6,92 3:34 pm
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL8]

> I'm looking for sources about the Cantigas of Santa Maria.  I already have
> several recordings, including the excellent one by Ensemble Alcatraz, and I
> would like to know more about the music for the poems. Has a facimile been
> published of all or part of the manuscript?  How were the melodies written,
> and where would I learn to read the notation?  What is known about
> instrumetation? What is the best compliation of the words, and translations?
> Lastly, is there a guide to gallego-portugese pronunciation that I can
> reference?
> Julie Lehrman,  P.O Box 4699   Charlottesville, VA 22905, USA
> jml2q@Virginia.edu
 
Alas, I can't answer most of your questions (at least not without
going home and checking my music books. I would, however, like to
put in a plug for the Martin Best Ensemble recording of the Cantigas.
I was also fortunate enough to see them perform them in person --
it was quite entertaining (and the first exposure I had had to these
songs).
 
Willi Apel has a good book on notation, but, since I have not seen the
MS for the Cantigas, I don't know how useful that will be.
 
Not very helpful; just my two cents. :-)
 
jr
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
From: tlukka@lk-hp-6.hut.fi (Tuomas J. Lukka)
Subject: Bach's 2nd keyboard partita, keyboard fingering
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date:  9 Nov 92 16:47:21 GMT


I was just wondering, how is it possible to fluently and easily
finger the fifth bar after the repeat in the Capriccio of
Bach's keyboard partita number 2 C minor. (clavieruebung part I)

The whole piece seems to be oriented on switching the middle voice
between the two hands and is quite fascinating when you start
counting the times you have to switch it... 

Also, if you remove the left hand part in the beginning, it's a 
fugue.. each voice enters just like in a fugue.

I find this piece really fascinating.

	TJL
From: QUINN@GONZAGA.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Vivaldi, Telemann
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: GONZAGA.01GR18VT2ADW000Q4E
X-VMS-Cc: QUINN
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

We are trying to track down recordings of Vivaldi's Il Pastor Fido and
Telemann's Six Partitas for Violin/Oboe/Flute/Recorder & Continuo.
Instrumentation is unimportant.  If anyone knows of anything, could you
drop me a line?  Thanks.
 
James Quinn
Quinn@Gonzaga.Bitnet
Quinn@Gonzaga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: rds1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (raymond.d.smith)
Subject: Re: Vega - 99.9 F - Singles/Remixes?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:53:19 GMT
Summary: THree singles available


I know that a European CD-single was released for "Blood Makes Noise,"
but I don't believe it was a re-mix.  It also had three live cuts 
including "Luka"

There were two more European CD-singles released, each with the same A-cut, but 
with three different live cuts.  "In Liverpool" was one of the songs
but I don't remember if it was the A-side or one of the live songs.

She did a similar thing with her last album, so that if you bought
all the singles, you almost had an entire album of live songs.

Sorry for the lack of detail, but I'm doing this from memory, 
(which seems to be getting worse and worse these days!).

Ray Smith
rds1@iwtgo.att.com
Naperville, Il.
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: hans@smab.se (Hans C Larsson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: Where are Santana releases?
Keywords: Santana
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:51:11 GMT
Organization: Saab Missiles AB, RLD-Gbg, Sweden

hayward@biblio.ucs.sfu.ca (Michael Hayward) writes:

>I guess I have 2 questions:
>1) Why is this? Why have I never seen a copy of "Welcome" for example (one  
>that I'd particularly like to get)? Have these albums ever seen the  
>(laser) light of CD-dom?

Castle has a double-pack with "Welcome" (I think... I didn't like
it...never listen...) and the (IMHO) excellent "Carlos Santana &
Buddy Miles! - Live!" on two CD's.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
        Hans C Larsson			Email:	hans@smab.se
	Saab Missiles, Sweden		Motto:	"keep it short"
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: BMG Gripes
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:10:29 GMT

stevea@zeus.bony.com (Steve Albin) writes:
>According to an article in The New York Times on 10/29/92, reporting 
>on the BMG club:

>"If you are a member in good standing and you've bought $60 to $100 worth of 
>recordings over a six-month period, you can ask to be transferred to 
>the Positive Option Club.  Positive Option members receive the same
>discounts and catalogue mailings as regular club members, but they don't
>receive reply cards."
*----
That explains why they were more inclined to cancel my membership than
to switch me to the positive-response option.  Fortunately, we have
some very competitive record stores in town.  All CD's are 20% off
on Tuesday (from an already decent price in most cases), one store
accepts coupons from ANY record store (ANY, not just local), and
I can return defective ones without a hassle.

--
	Mike Berger
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: stewarte@sco.COM (just a guy made of dots and lines)
Subject: Re: Deliberate vinyl noise/crackles on CD - I HATE IT !
Organization: Captain Napalm's Thermonuclear League of Liberty
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:10:25 GMT


After overdosing on Halcion, s0454850@let.rug.nl (J.P. Prenger) typed:
>Yes, that's correct, I still prefer the LP. Okay, cd's are easier in use, 
>but where's the romance of buying a good old lp? Go home on your bike with 
>your LP almost hitting the wheels, especially when there's a hell lot of 
>wind.
>And then, at home, listen to your new LP, read the cover, look at the 
>pictures. And what's it now? Small, almost unreadable texts. 
>
>Fuck off, CD! I want the good old LP back, okay??

Yeah, you're right.  They just don't make bikes like they used to.
Or wind, for that matter.  

So what do you read rec.music.cd for, eh?  Just to bait the 
technophiles?  Or is this whole posting tongue-in-cheek and
I'm just incredibly dense today?

-- Stewart
-- 
Is there a dry unoccupied aquarium?
That may be refilled with fish and tranquility.
					-- Ernest Noyes Brookings
/*  uunet!sco!stewarte  -or-  stewarte@sco.COM  -or-  Stewart Evans  */
From: skrul@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Steve Krulewitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Looking for Record/CD Show
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:14:55 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I am looking for a record/CD show in two places:

Anywhere near the Roanoke area in Virignia.  Or anything close to Blacksburg - or anything in southern VA!

Also, anywhere in Northern NJ from Nov 20-27th. 

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd