HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham)
Subject: Re: Dallas (was Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:58:34 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Dec30.163206.10489@exu.ericsson.se> exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:
>
>What are you doing to enhance the situation?  I trust that you aren't
>just sitting back criticizing without taking an active role in some
>aspect of community involvement in an effort to improve things, right?
>
>By the way Chip - this post isn't meant as a flame directed towards
>you - I just think Dallas has a lot to offer - and I think that with
>some work, Dallas could become another Austin.

Ok, the hit was well taken. I am down on Dallas because for the last few 
years I have been active in trying to make change and got frustrated with
the constant uphill battle. I guess you could say I got burnt out. I really
hit the bottom when I had to deal with city manager Jan Hart's views on 
cutting all monies for AIDS programs. Having been on the Board of Directors
for Aids Services of Dallas and been thru the fights with the City I became
very cynical. I don't see these problems in other places I have been active.
In Fort Worth the Aids Outreach Center is practically mainstream now. Most
of their fundraisers are backed by straights and there are usually many more
straights than gays at their functions. The same was true when I lived in 
Austin. Maybe I have just hit my head against the wall too many times in Dallas
and have lost sight of the progress that has been made. 

Thanks for the wake up call. 
I think I just need a "new hat, new dress and a new attitude!" 
Here's to being Gay and Free in '93!

-- 
Chip Graham      cgraham@convex.com         +1 214 497 4642
Convex Computer Corporation 
3000 Waterview Parkway     
Box 833851, Richardson,Tx,75083
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: 00112716@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Uninformed :)
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:17:49 GMT

   Hello :)
   I have just started reading soc.motss and would like it if someone would
please post/mail me translations for bear, smurf, etc. codes so I will know
where I stand and can understand what others mean.
 
                                       Thanks much   :)
                                       Hugs all around
                                       Happy Holidays
                                       Brinn         :)
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: I come not to praise Andrea Dworkin
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:55:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec22.155553.18345
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1h6t87INNccf@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <BznGFH.KBq@unix.amherst.edu> 
>twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>Hi, Tim!  Sorry we didn't get a chance (because I was just
>a *teeny* bit "under the weather") to talk last October,
>
>> Assuming for the moment that Andrea Dworkin's suggestions are
>> clueless, inappropriate, and nonsensical (and it's been my experience
>> that feminists who are perceived to be such are usually maligned by a
>> hysterical, incredibly myopic media) it wouldn't invalidate my quote.
>
>I wouldn't look to Andrea "everyday, in-a-loving-relationship,
>vaginal intercourse is fully as evil as the gas chambers at
>Auschwitz" Dworkin for suggestions about *anything*.  Her suggestions
>are clueless, inappropriate, nonsensical, and, surprise, surpirse,
>homophobic (men being the beasts we are, it doesn't matter what our
>sexual orientation is: we're all genocidal rapists bent on exterminating
>women from the face of the earth.)  Yawn.  There's no reason whatsoever 
>to listen to a single word Andrea Dworkin says.

You mean "Pornography is what men do to women" Dworkin? I wish there
was a Dworkin calendar like there is a Quayle quarterly, so there
could be a little Dworkin koan for every day of the year to scream
with laughter about. I think the only thing which surpasses her
polemics is her fiction writing.

Doubleyawnplus.


-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO
Date: 3 Jan 93 03:34:25 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Scott Amspoker writes:

>When will they learn?  When will they learn?

Never.  Never.

(One could insert a reference to pigs flying as a barometer to when "they"
will learn.  However, someone would likely pipe up with, "But squirrels
fly."  Hmmm, perhaps I should post my GAY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER routine
someday.  But who here knows what a back course is anyway?)
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 01:15:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.182753.5383@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1hnconINN62i@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
>>My lover and I like it when I keep my head shaved smooth, but the
>>mechanics are kinda tough.  Knowing that various motssketeers out
>>there do the same thing, could you let us in on what kind of
>>razor (or electric) you use, how you keep from cutting yourself,
>>how you keep from missing spots, etc?
>
>Have you tried using an Epilady?  (Ow, ow, ow, ow...)
>
>-- 
Well, actually, a Wahl razor works very well as long as you find
someone to do the honors. I trim my Ken's beard every couple of
weeks, and the Wahl attachments (Numbers 1 through 4) regulate
the length of the hair cut. A '1' will remove nearly all hair
but spares the skin.



-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To invite someone to your house means devoting yourself to ensuring his
happiness the whole time he is under your roof." --Brillat-Savarin
From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:54:05 GMT
Organization: Trivializers R Us

In article <1992Dec29.141645.11478@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1hoi7rINN2br@shelley.u.washington.edu> rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra) writes:
>>Without Dworkin, is it possible that women like Daly and Griffin would
>>be too 'radical' to be seriously listened to?
>
>Sorry, but in my experience among the nonfeminists, both
>*are* considered too radical to be taken seriously.  I
>think that what we're really seeing is that while misogyny
>is a problem that should be addressed in due time but isn't
>something to get overly exercised about, man-hating is a
>heinous crime of major proportions that must be decried
>loudly and publicly whenever we see even a hint of it.

Well, after all, since the male _is_ generic, even if
individual women for some reason of their own don't
feel included by it, man-hating is really Man-hating,
i.e. contempt for all of humanity including oneself,
and it is only necessary in the interest of the greater
good that one compassionately lead those afflicted by
such self-hatred into a better understanding, perhaps
by letting them rest for weeks on end in rooms with
pleasant yellow wallpaper.

sorry. it was the angel in the house. really it was

paul
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<tdober-221292131251@tdo.llnl.gov>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:52:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <tdober-221292131251@tdo.llnl.gov> tdober@llnl.gov (TDO) writes:

   In article <m0n2YOg-00006xC@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>,
   rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com wrote:

   [...]

   > It is this irrational fear that has sealed the suicide attempts of many
   > young men.

   ...and women.


Hmm.  Good point.  I'm curious -- does anyone know how many teenage
women kill themselves over this?  Somehow I bet the statistics are
different between women and men on this one...
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:41:09 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1ht3imINN505@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:


>You're doing a fine imitation of a rock, I'll say.  Where did the 'quotas' 
>thing come from?  I've gone over and over that in numerous posts.  It is
>IN THE AMENDMENT.  And its being in there is a main reason it passed. 
>That is what I am saying.  I am NOT saying that gays DO want quotas, or 
>that quotas existed in the past; 

NOT!  You've said it repeatedly, and also insisted that the "minority/quota"
thing is what I wanted.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

>what I am saying is that because of the 
>frequent comparisons by gays to blacks, people can be led to believe that 
>gays want quotas.  That is what happened; that is why the writers of #2 
>put the 'Q' word in the amendment, and that is why it passed.  I'm not 
>saying it is good, I'm not saying it is right, I'm saying IT IS.  If you 
>have a problem with that, I don't know what I can say to make you 
>feel better.  You just seem intent on ranting for the sake of it.  

As do you.  I've responded to Walter in e-mail, and apologize to the
motss community for wasting the bandwidth.

BBC put it best:  all the Equal Opportunity policies in world are useless
if the _law_ doesn't allow you to use them.  And that's what Amendment 2
does.

Why is that so hard for so many to see?

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:10:56 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>> My insurance premium is higher because I have to pay heterosexuals 
>> to have children.  So are the tax payers.

>Would you feel better if people stopped having children?  Or if 
>insurance didn't cover dependants?   Or if there was legislation 
>that required a certain level of financial wealth before someone 
>can have kids?  ie; what are you offering as a better way, or 
>are you just pissing in the wind?  

	No, just pay N times the amount for a single person.

	Duh.

	As it is you get N times minus a special
heterosexual privelege for being married, and then M more
discounts for each child you have under the "special heterosexual
family unit perk".  Actually I think that even gay people get
the one for kids, since they can just make the company assume
their unmarried heterosexual with kid (since we all know
that no homosexuals can have FAMILIES --- don't forget to hide
your copy of Heather has Two Mommies now before the insurance
companiers find it and start a witch hunt!)...

	Meanwhile, I am paying about 20% of my ANNUAL take home
pay in health insurance that I can't use because I can't afford
the co-payment (it doens't cover much either --- I think amputations
are covered), while my partner can't put me under his insurance
EVEN AT THE SAME RATE FOR HIM (i.e. *no* deduction whatsoever),
because we're not heterosexual and in doing so we'd be getting
a "special privilege":.

	PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE tell me you "get this".
Lie to me if you have to.

	I can believe you're this dense, though I'm expecting to
find some great "question" replying to this somehow rationalizing
the inequality towards the support of "heterosexual families"...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)
Subject: Re: Manifesto (LONG) Society to Cut Up Bigotted Assholes
Organization: Jenny Agutter Fan Club
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:04:50 +0000

In article <1992Dec25.034506.13273@bsu-ucs> d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
>The following a bastardized version of "The SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men)
>Manifesto (a definct ultra-militant anti-male org.) I've reprinted
>it with modifications to aply to the LesBiGay community.

Who was the original author? Was is Valerie Solanas? And whatever became
of her? I remember reading the SCUM manifesto at university. *Very*
interesting...

Nigel.
-- 
[Nigel Whitfield                               nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk]
[For details on the uk-motss mailing list mail uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk]
[*****  All demon.co.uk sites are independently run internet hosts   *****]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:41:28 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:


>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>   >>>I don't know, would Nair work? (And, tangentally, would Nair work
>   >>>in more... delicate places?)
>shafer@spdcc.com (Mary Shafer) writes:
>  >>The Nair euphemism is "bikini line" and yes, it does work there, or so
>  >>says a friend of mine who has used it.  I'd keep it off mucous
>  >>membranes, though.
>(John Dorrance) writes:
>>Darn, and I find the 'European' look in nasal passages *so* passe'...

>Tweezers, sweetheart.

Well, of course; that's what I've *been* doing. It's probably a nicer
way to do it anyway; even though I'm afraid of needles I can give
gallons and gallons of blood every couple of months. And people only
call me a mouthbreather until the swelling goes down.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Flits in the Rye
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:39:09 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

It kills me, it really does, how goddam smart everyone here is.
Really.  Sometimes I wish I could be so goddam smart.  I really
do.  It kills me.  It really does.  Anyway, it being Christmas
and all, I had a lot of free time.  It being Christmas, and all.
So I thought I'd try and catch up, at least a little, with all
the really smart people around here.  And really, there are
so goddam many of them.  Really goddam smart, too.  It kills me.
So what I did was take down all these books I had up on my
shelf, just gathering dust and all, like books up on shelves do.
It kills me, sometimes, when I go over to someone's house and I
see a lot of books up on their shelf covered with dust.  You
just _know_ nobody reads them when they're covered with dust.
Really.  So I read them.  Not books by anyone really smart people
read.  I mean, really goddam smart people always seem to be 
reading authors no-one else has heard of.  I mean, if you were
goddam smart, then would you read a book that everyone else is
reading?  No. You'd read a book no-one else was reading, otherwise
you couldn't show everyone how goddam smart you were.

Well, I don't have any books by authors no-one has heard of, so
I guess I can't be too goddam smart.  Oh, they were good books
and all.  Some Poe.  Some Fitzgerald, F. Scott.  I really like
the _Last Tycoon_, but it kills me.  I mean, just when you get all
interested in the story, it ends.  Just like that.  I mean,
F. Scott had a heart attack and all when he was writing it, so
it's not really his fault.  But it still kills me.  I mean, I
get so goddam interested and then it just ends.  But without
an ending.  You know what I mean?  At least _Alas Babylon_ has
an ending.  You know what I mean?  I read a bunch of New Yorker
articles by Dorothy Parker - and there are some really goddam
smart people here who really like Dorothy Parker a lot, so 
maybe Parker is better than Fitzgerald and maybe reading her
will make me a little smarter msyelf.  Which is fine by me,
since Dorothy Parker kills me.  She really does.

Anyway, another book I read was that one with a funny red cover
by J.D. Salinger.  He kills me, too.  So goddam smart.  Really,
he is.  Anyway, towards the end, he uses this word for homosexual
that I hadn't heard before.  Flit.  A really funny word.  It
kills me.  Flit.  "Joe Blow's a flit?"  There's a line in there
like that.  There really is.  Anyway, I knew "flit" meant 
faggot because he used it with Lesbian.  Flits and Lesbians.
Only "flit" wasn't usually capitalized, and Lesbian always
was.  That killed me.  It really did.  Why should Lesbian be
capitalized?  I suppose natives of Lesbos should be called Lesbians,
but regular old flit women, should they be called Lesbians or
just lesbians?  

And where do those damn ducks go in winter?

*X*
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Age-ism and the gay community
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:17:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec22.031736.26965
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec21.202931.19993@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>As I soon found out, he was actually 21, and as I was 30, the
>difference between our ages was not much greater than the difference
>between mine and John's (John and I had been lovers for a little under
>3 years at the time, and I had never thought of him as being a whole
>lot older than I). It still felt to me like he was considerably my
>junior. (We're still friends, BTW, and at 37 he should seem like a
>contemporary, but because of that history he feels "younger" in a way
>that Steve Dyer, say, does not.)

Well, how should we go about to "fix" this, er, problem?  Eh? :-)

To put my own two cents into this discussion, my lover is 10 years older
than I am; we met when I was 23 and he was 33, and it will be 14 years
later this coming March.  I think bright kids are mature in certain ways
which make it perfectly natural to seek out people older than themselves
as peers, friends and therefore as lovers, too.  This was certainly going on
with me in my early 20's.  Admittedly, a gap of 10 years might not have
as much a taboo as twice that, but to be honest, I didn't notice this
much at all.  Of course, I didn't have a bunch of age-peers clucking their
tongues at me, either.  Which is not to say that even now, the age difference
can be completely ignored.   For example, I am still somewhat footloose,
probably more than I ought to be, whereas annuities and mutual funds for
maximizing his return for his retirement plan have seized my lover's
imagination.  At age 47, age 65 comes upon you very quickly.  Or so I'm
told. :-)


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 12:39:41 GMT

smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) asks an excellent question:

 >I don't think that would work, unless your job evaluations showed you 
 >really *were* a bad employee.  And WHY would a company fire a good 
 >employee *just* because he is gay?  


(He or she.) 
But I really cannot answer this one.  Perhaps you should
ask the Cracker Barrel management people.  They did this 
quite explicitly last year.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (was Re: Ageism)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:56:36 GMT

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>*X*
>(wondering what the ablative of Splat is... Splatus?  Splatuci?
>Splato?  Splud?)

Slut.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Costner plans Colorado Filming
Date: 30 Dec 92 01:38:17 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Dec29.180517.19094@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>
>Is this a surprise?  The man plays golf with Bush for heavens sake.....
>
>Bil Snodgrass III
>
>p.s.  Portland just got a convention that had planned on going
>to Denver.  Guess boycotts don't work! ;-)

Albuquerque is starting to see some convention business that Colorado
lost.  Also, anyone looking for a place to go skiing should consider
New Mexico.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Subject: Re: LOOKIN' FOR NYC QUEERS...
Originator: swc@swcdev
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:41:09 GMT


I read that article in a free NY paper (that I can't remember the name of).
If I'm correct, this was a story about a guy who worked at Macy's as an elf
named Crumpett; a truly brilliant story and VERY funny.

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction (actually Delany)
Date: 29 Dec 92 06:35:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec29.063553.2470
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <8k12s7#@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>Eeeek! I'm actually going to agree with Steve on something.

I never knew we were ever out of synchronicity before!  Now you tell me...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: "HIV-infected molest suspect outrages town"
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 17:19:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.155541.27602@dvorak.amd.com>
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D.  Barrett) writes:

>[Jeez... this thing is a cross-post from hell :)]

Well damn, you could have edited the Newsgroups: line, then
it wouldn't have been.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]