HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Footware. =(
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 17:34:17 CDT
Organization: Villa CyberSpace, Minneapolis, MN

acsbk@UMASSD.EDU writes:

> 	I hear through the grapevine that Reebok is releasing 'Ultralights'
> that use graphite composites for support, and that in the future a CO2 
> cartridge powered 'pump up' sports shoe will be available.

You can also look for a Reebok with a pump and a digital pressure gauge.
I saw the operative guts at an electronics show back in May.  So the
shoe is probably going to appear in the spring '93 lineup.

You know these things are gonna be expensive... but the entire pressure
bladder kit, including sensor, pump, readout and "lifetime battery"
costs Reebok $6 per shoe, according to the manufacturer's rep.
--
Roy M. Silvernail --  roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu - OR-  cybrspc!roy@cs.umn.edu
                         "I'm a model citizen."
                                      -- Warren Zevon
From: cosc176t@menudo.uh.edu (Jason Asbahr)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Publishers and that lot
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:32:06 GMT
	<63cn1!k.tmaddox@netcom.com>
Organization: /posole/cosc176t/.organization


Tom Maddox writes:

>   A few years back, I saw a _NYT Magazine_ article about the head of 
>   Waldenbooks, who said that the chain was interested in hardbound 
>   fiction only when the book in question had a first printing of more 
>   than 100,000 and the writer was doing a major promo tour.  
>
>	   Eek.

Disturbing -- how will a new writer get his/her start?  Surely this
kind of thinking wouldn't kill *all* new writers, but it sounds like
it makes starting out a lot more difficult...

Does this mean will we will see more series?  Even *more* DragonLance
taking up space on the Sci-Fi shelves!?

>   And makes it harder than ever to scrape by as a writer without other
>   means of support.  

I can see it -- _Mirrorshades ][, the Shareware Version_ ...  (Maybe
that wouldn't be such a bad idea...certain fans would shower large
sums of cash for really good work...  Perhaps $30 per reader for
a "best seller"?  Hmm...)  (hint: there are smilies here)



--
Jason Asbahr                           116 E. Edgebrook #603
asbahr@uh.edu                          Houston, Texas  77034
next@tree.egr.uh.edu   (NeXTmail)      (713) 941-8294  voice (summer)
asbahr@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTmail)      UH NeXT Campus Consultant
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: bladex@wixer.cactus.org (David Smith)
Subject: Re: Linguistic/conceptual
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 23:36:32 GMT

In article <62.859.uupcb@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us> daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.u
s (Daniel Moran)  writes:
>
>The map is not the object. Language is insufficient. Fortunately, it's
>not all we have. Music, painting, sports (at least at the playing level)
>all help give commonality to the internal referents of the people who
>have shared that experience. If you watch basketball you may know what a
>"give-and-go" is -- but unless you play the game, you can't know how it
>feels to perform it. And all the words in the world can't do more than
>give you a vague intimation of what the act feels like.
>---

Another common example is learning to ride a bicycle.  You can talk until
you're blue in the face about the theory and instructions involved, but
nothing work excepts to jump on and start pedalling.  No other expression
will do.

I have to disagree, though, with music & painting.  These are languages as
equally as valid as any spoken or written word.

-- 
| Cyberspace: The Narcotic of Choice for the 90's | this space left
| bladex@wixer.cactus.org                         | unintentionally
--------------------------------------------------- blank..........
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Rights in cyberspace
Keywords: Freedom information cyberpunk
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:51:45 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

>tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>>	Finally, as Bruce Sterling just pointed out in a speech to the
>>American Library Association's meeting in San Francisco about a month ago,
>>information is not a commodity, no matter who wants you to believe it is.
>>*Sometimes* it can acquire commodity status, but in general it does not 
>>have it.  For instance, I lose nothing by transferring information about
>>these ideas to you.  

Hi Tom.  Is the text of Bruce's speech available anywhere? FTP or in an
ALA publication?  Your synopsis contains the germ of some interesting ideas,
particularly delivered to Information and Media specialists.  Also interesting
coming from a writer who derives some economic success from information that
has aquired commodity status. Are you implying that most "information"
(most as a measure of volume) has no economic value?  Or is this like saying
that iron isn't a commodity until mined from ore and put up for sale? I
mean, is anything, in essence, a commodity in and of itself?

Also, in your example of losing nothing in the transfer, would your fulfilling
my request above cause a "commodity" loss to Bruce or the ALA (ie, I didn't
pay to attend the conference or buy the proceedings)?  Would that
be an example of Bruce's own speech aquiring commodity status?

Boy, this can be slicker than oil futures!

So for a thing to become a commodity (I`m inferring, please correct),
it must be:
- owned/aquired by some one
- be wanted by some one else
- be transferable
- the transfer must be an exchange (something of value expected in return)
- in the usual sense, this transfer must be repeatable enough to establish
  a "going" price (a market value). This is not inferred from your synopsis
  but from the traditional sense of the term "commodity."

Applied to information, the surprise is that raw information doesn't really
meet the last criteria! Even in cp novels, most exchanges of raw data were
one of a kind transfers, like stolen art (almost; the 1 of a kind part, not
the raw part. On second thought...)

However, when that information is processed, packaged, and sold (books,
video or audio recordings, programs or implants), and there is a generally
perceived price (you wouldn't pay $300 for a mass market music CD in a
non-collectibles situation), that information can aquire commodity status.

If this is the case, then a sizable amount of information does aquire
commodity status, but it represents only a small percentage of the total
information that exists.

Is this anywhere near what Bruce was saying, if you or other readers care to
comment further?
  
Oh, and given the importance of data protection and piracy in many cyberpunk
novels and spinoffs, I think the discussion is relevent, hence the post rather
than email. 

Matt
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: Linguistic/conceptual
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:55:14 GMT

In article <62.859.uupcb@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us> daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran)  writes:
>The map is not the object. Language is insufficient. 

Ah, ah, ah!  At a certain level of abstraction, the map is the object, 
just as much as the the object is, since you have to internally 
represent things abstractly.  That is, a map or a photo may be 
equivalent internal handles to an object you have encountered before.
Additionally, if the object is destroyed or disappears somehow, all 
that may be left is the photo, the map, and your memories.  

(Actually, this is only true in a whimsical kind of way; real objects
emit fields, bend space, and interact with light in measurable ways.)

What I'm really interested in is your statement, "Language is
insufficient."  Insufficient for what?  Which language?  I think what
you're saying is that natural languages are insufficient for sharing 
the whole of the human experience between two or more arbitrary people.
I'd agree with that, with the caveat that many precise abstract
experiences are communicable using mathematics, which is a language, 
and by using digital representation of audio and video, which can 
often produce excellent approximations of original sensory stimuli.  
Many natural languages are really quite good at expressing non-shared 
experiences through poetry, where meter, sound, and image share the 
responsibility for communicating the experience, if the receiving 
party knows how to interpret the message.  English, the language I 
have the most experience with, is good for this, although not as nice 
for rhyming as the romance languages, while Esperanto is rather poor.

>Fortunately, it's
>not all we have. Music, painting, sports (at least at the playing level)
>all help give commonality to the internal referents of the people who
>have shared that experience. If you watch basketball you may know what a
>"give-and-go" is -- but unless you play the game, you can't know how it
>feels to perform it. And all the words in the world can't do more than
>give you a vague intimation of what the act feels like.

Granted, on the music and painting, but playing sports is only good for
communicating a very narrow range of messages, wouldn't you say?  It's
almost too special-purpose to be good for anything besides supporting
itself. 
-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
From: rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!! [sic]
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:33:58 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Well, I gotten lots of responces to my post.  A few positive and a hell of
a lot of negitive ones.  They main problem with my post is that no one can
read what I said.  So I'm not going to post any more until I get a good
editor and spell checker.  But don't think for a minute that I've given up
on this. 

--
Ethan Clarke
Rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: turkel@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Turkel)
Subject: TV - flawed message and/or medium?
Originator: turkel@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:45:51 GMT


Some recent postings have suggested that the problem with TV is the content,
not the medium itself.  Consider this - you get around 100 channels of 
information on TV.  Information comes  at a set time.  You cannot interrupt
the flow of information (to think about what you are receiving, for example)
without losing part of it.  TV embodies the rule that "the few speak and the
many listen".   Now look at a book... the smallest library or bookstore has
two to three orders of magnitude more channels of information.  You can
consume as many books in parallel as you can keep track of.  You read *when*
you want to.  "The many speak to the many".  You can interrupt the flow of
information to criticize it.

I realize that videorecorders allow one to compensate for the shortcomings
of the medium, to an extent.  The fact remains that the number of
simultaneous channels of information, and the range of levels and content
are much greater for books than for TV.  To an extent, the *medium* of TV
is flawed.  The message is, of course, problematic.

Bill
turkel@unixg.ubc.ca
From: aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Subject: Re: AI
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:38:35 GMT
Distribution: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Organization: The Banzai Institute

rmills@controls.ccd.harris.com (Richard C. Mills) writes:
: 	Aynone out there hear of an RPG called AI? It takes place in a
: declining future, where technology is magic.  It uses fuzzy logic as
: a rules base.  I'm not sure about who put's it out, I saw an ad a while
: back in an issue of 'Challenge' magazine.  Any help would be appreciated.
: 

_AI_ is/was put out by, I think, GDW.  I remember seeing an advert for it in
something I picked up at GenCon last year ('91).  If they did put it out I
saw nothing on it at this year's GenCon.  Anyone else?  BTW, I do recall
that I liked what I read about the games system ... the local shops here
never got it in, though.


Steve J. White		|	Reality is for those who can't handle	|
aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu|	roleplaying games.			|
skeptic@large@9600bps	|		- t-shirt at GenCon		|
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
From: jholder@draco.unm.edu (John D. Holder)
Subject: Re: RPG, GDW
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 09:33:06 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Alan Morman writes:

Subj: AI                             Conf: (37) Alt.Cyberp
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
ST> :  Aynone out there hear of an RPG called AI? It takes place in a

ST> _AI_ is/was put out by, I think, GDW.  I remember seeing an advert for it i

What does RPG mean?
          ^^^{ ROLE PLAYING GAME, like Dungeons & Dragons }

What is GDW?
        ^^^^{ GAME DESIGNER'S WORKSHOP, an RPG company }

Thanks.....

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Chocolate -- Operator halted!

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)


From: Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Subject: Ai
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 23:10:06 -0600

Subj: AI                             Conf: (37) Alt.Cyberp
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
ST> :  Aynone out there hear of an RPG called AI? It takes place in a

ST> _AI_ is/was put out by, I think, GDW.  I remember seeing an advert for it i

What does RPG mean?

What is GDW?

Thanks.....

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Chocolate -- Operator halted!

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Subject: Re: cyber-poetry?
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:23:46 GMT
Distribution: alt.cyberpunk
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Aug21.193332.151420@zeus.calpoly.edu> mdturner@riker.acs.calpoly.edu  writes:
>
>Is there cyber-poetry?

What is the Sound of One Hand Typing?
-------------------------------------

Cyber-poetry by @Man
for your reading pleasure

Clack clack clack
I want you back
Clack clack clack

Beep beep beep
a GIF of naked sheep
made you really mad
made me feel really bad
beep beep beep

buzz buzz buzz
this is what a hacker does
ignores his shrewish spouse
hopes that she'll leave the house
buzz buzz buzz

grind grind grind
I've changed my mind
don't bother returning
I'm learning
to fix my own 
spaghettios
grind grind grind


-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Subject: Re: AI
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:47:09 GMT
Distribution: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Aug31.133835.6296@uwm.edu> aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider) writes:
>rmills@controls.ccd.harris.com (Richard C. Mills) writes:
>: 	Aynone out there hear of an RPG called AI?

>_AI_ is/was put out by, I think, GDW.

  AI will be put out by DGP real-soon-now, or so they have claimed for quite a
long time:)

  DGP - Digest Group Publications, they are not GDW but they had a license to
produce support material for one of GDW's games. 1st-hand rumour has it that 
the reason behind AI is that the DGP accountant said in essence: "Why do you 
keep on paying these licensing-fees? Why don't you invent a popular game of 
your own?"...

>Steve J. White		|	Reality is for those who can't handle	|

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
From: rmills@controls.ccd.harris.com (Richard C. Mills)
Subject: AI
Organization: Harris Controls and Composition
Distribution: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:28:26 GMT

	Aynone out there hear of an RPG called AI? It takes place in a
declining future, where technology is magic.  It uses fuzzy logic as
a rules base.  I'm not sure about who put's it out, I saw an ad a while
back in an issue of 'Challenge' magazine.  Any help would be appreciated.

					Thanks,


					-Richard Mills

rmills@ccd.harris.com
From: moon!cyberden!verge@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
Subject: ME!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 20:07:40 PDT
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Flash, man, to all the plugged-in: seeking (and to share, man) infostuff 
with cyberpunk bent. Iz you into deconstructionist, nasty-boy SF: Jeter, 
Shirley, Shiner, Shepard, Rucker, Gibson, & Russo? Drugs: wetbone, orange 
octogons, wetware, chemical cherries? Sex: concertina wire bras, 
"Obsolete penises", augmentation, your plastic pal? Ultra-violence: Core 
tours, monomolecular strangle-wire, brain-rotting nanotech? ALL that FUN 
STUFF with that viscious edge of no rules, morality sucks, and life is 
only on the edge? Send "E" to me, and we will talk hackers, screamers, 
"Bob", rippers, the cybersea, and all those underground (sorta) heros: 
moon!cyberden!verge@well.sf.ca.us. 


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N       [ moon!cyberden!verge@well.sf.ca.us ]
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.movement
From: rmills@controls.ccd.harris.com (Richard C. Mills)
Subject: Re: Ai
Organization: Harris Controls and Composition
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:04:31 GMT

 RPG - Role Playing Game
 GDW - Game Desginers Workshop

rmills@ccd.harris.com

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo,alt.cyberpunk.tech,alt.cyberspa
From: rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drau)
Subject: Repost Please??  CD-ROM Order Form?
Keywords: fnord NSA 
Organization: Menzoberranzan 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:10:13 GMT

Just in case anyone besides Jennifer.M.Collins@dartmouth.edu (Jennifer M. Collins) wants it...

From: steve.rainwater@ocitor.fidonet.org (Steve Rainwater)
Subject: AI CD-ROM product announcement
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:01:03

NETWORK CYBERNETICS CORPORATION
PRESS RELEASE - September 1, 1992


NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT:  Network Cybernetics Corporation
announces the release of  the "AI CD-ROM".  The AI CD-ROM is an
ISO-9660 format CD-ROM readable on any computer platform with a
CD-ROM drive.  The AI CD-ROM contains a large assortment of
software related to artificial intelligence, artificial life,
robotics, virtual reality, and other topics.  Programs for OS/2,
MS-DOS, Macintosh, Amiga, UNIX, and other operating systems are
included.  Research papers, tutorials, and other text files are
included in ASCII, RTF, and other universal formats.  The files
have been collected from AI bulletin boards, Internet archive
sites, University computer departments, and  other government
and  civilian AI research organizations.   Network Cybernetics
Corporation intends to release annual revisions to the AI CD-ROM
to keep it up to date with current developments in the field.
The disc is available directly from Network Cybernetics
Corporation for $129.00 per copy.


The AI CD-ROM includes collections of files that address many
specific AI/AL topics including:


        - Expert Systems: NASA CLIPS v5.1 complete with documentation
and architecture manual in multiple formats as well as many
public domain and shareware expert systems.


        - Neural Networks: Source code and executables for many
different platforms including UNIX, DOS, and Macintosh.  ANN
development tools, example networks, sample data, and tutorials
are included.  A complete collection of Neural Digest is
included as well.


        -Genetic Algorithms: GA examples and source code.  A complete
collection of Genetic Algorithm Digest.  Research papers related
to GAs.


        -Fuzzy Logic: Tutorials on what it is and examples of how it
works.


        -Linguistics/Natural Language: The largest collection of
derivations of ELIZA ever assembled including source code in
every imaginable language from Prolog to dbaseIII.  English word
lists.  Text analyzers, manglers, and generators.  Language
tutorials.  Language translators. Natural Language Knowledge
Representation Digest back issues.


        -Robotics: Source code for controlling and managing various
types of robotic equipment. Sources for low cost parts.
Tutorials and utilities for the PC robotics experimenter.


        -Virtual Reality: Source code and schematics for using
available equipment with PCs.  Demos of commercial VR programs
and toolkits.  VR development tools.


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Eine keine Nichtmusik)
Subject: Re: RECOMMENDATIONS Requested
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:32:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.134505.19@europa.asd.contel.com> wardc@europa.asd.contel.com (Cliff Ward) writes:
>I have a quick question and would appreciate any responses.  I have heard 
>about the "Cyberpunk" movement, but have not experienced it yet.  I would 
>like a recomendation of what my first book to read should be to get the feel 
>for it.  

I highly suggest you load up on Nine Inch Nails and Head Swellers (one part 
rum, one part coke, one part choline,) and read Neuromancer over and over 
again until your head explodes.  When you've done that, pop over to 
rec.music.industrial and inquire about Skinny Puppy lyrics.  Following that,
read Neuromancer a couple more times, followed possibly by anything with 
"Cyber" in the title written by an author that hasn't had a decent book since
the early eighties, then throw back a couple more Head Swellers.  Before you 
pass out, instruct your younger brother to cut and dye your hair in any way 
he sees fit.  After you awake, it is normal practice to admire your new 
appearance and curse quietly.  After you are fired from your job, you are 
ready to play guitar, or write endless derivative works of fiction filled 
with 2d characters, poorly thought out tech, cliched conflicts, and a lot of
unrealistic chase scenes.

Congratulations.  You have arrived!  You may now read Mondo 2000, and flame
newbies on alt.cyberpunk at will.  Welcome; we're glad to have you with us.

@Man

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint. 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: gish@NCoast.ORG (Tyson Chihaya)
Subject: Re: Gibson's world and Ours
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:10:16 GMT

Geoffrey Spear <gs32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
: True, Gibson's fiction was not a blueprint of the world today (nor was
: it meant to be) --but it sure is a pretty good indication of what is
: to come! 
: 
: 	I have to disagree.  Although a LOT of former science fiction HAS come
: true, there is a lot that hasn't.  Of course we concentrate on what DOES
: happen, but I think a lot of what Gibson writes is unlikely to come true.
: 
:  We'll see in the future...

I agree, to a certain extent. Gibson's writing is, like many near future
works such as "1984" or "Brave New World", an amplification of current
trends and ideas, selectively making things that seem to be on the upswing
"more so", if you know what I mean. For example, the Japanification of
America, or the idea of cyberspace. I think many of Gibson's "predictions",
if that's what we want to call them (although I don't know if it was
really his intention to predict the future) will come true, but to a
lesser extent. And there are always factors that arise that are completely
unforseeable at this point in time...

--
Tyson Chihaya	"Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true. Jerry
gish@ncoast.org	 Lee Lewis was the devil. Jesus was an architect previous
		 to his career as a prophet. All of a sudden, I found
		 myself in love with the world, so there was only one thing
		 I could do, was ding-a-ding-dang my dang-a-long-ling-long."
							-- AJ

-- 
--
Tyson Chihaya       "Was it for you? Was it me? Did I watch too much tv?"
gish@ncoast.org
tchihaya@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu