From: k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai)
Subject: Re: The Analogy Betwixt Gays & Blacks (Re: Children in Same-gender Families)
Organization: Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH, Hamburg
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:46:14 GMT

In article <15DEC199210511141@zeus.tamu.edu> rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu (Gadson Sandor) writes:
>In article <14DEC199213373618@zeus.tamu.edu> rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu writes:
>
[....]
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>On the contrary, I have known several "gay" people who rejected 
>homosexual practices and are now heterosexuals. Whether or not
>they still feel "attracted" to same gender relationships is a point
>of debate (they claim to me that they're not).
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>	Yes, it's a point of debate, and it's also a cruxial point.
>
>	The problem is that we have people who are anti-Gay often claiming
>that Gays can change, and we hav people who are pro-Gay who say that they
>cannot.  And, no one knows who to believe.
>
My only answer is to rip off Shakepeare and say that, there may be
more things in Heaven and in Earth than are dreamt of in our 
respective philosophies. People should not limit other people's
choices, options, or possibilities for political gain which is what
I think the debate is *really* about. Gay Rights advocates believe that they
have a stronger case for equality by claiming that homosexuals cannot
change their sexual orientation. Contrariwise, their opponents feel that
if they can prove otherwise they can prevent this. I give a resounding
"Pppphhhht" to both approaches. As i've stated before what goes on 
between consenting adults should never be a basis for discrimination, 
period, irregardless of whether the behavior is genetic or learned. 

>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"rehabilitation" is a very sore point with the gay community but
>these people also claimed not to have been coerced. I would add
>the "without much effort" qualification to homosexuals as well.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>	Whether or not they'd been coerced into changing is not
>important.  If they were able to change their gender attraxion, it's
>worth noting.  My general tendency is to believe that if orientation is
>changeable, it may not be so for all.  I would hope, someday, to be able to
>talk at length with people who claim to have been "cured" of an undesirable
>genderal attraxion.
>
Well, if they'd been coerced one could say that they are merely suppressing
their desires rather than being "cured". I have talked to several such 
people at length (I was damn curious as you might imagine). I couldn't
get inside their heads to see if they were telling me the absolute 
truth but I didn't sense any hedging or lying. A couple of them could
have been described as 100% gay before they changed. It's just another
detour into the infinite variety and vagaries of human relationships.

>Very true, [being Gay] only implies a sexual attraction to a member of the
>same sex. I leave off "love" relationship because I feel love for many men
>in my life without being sexually attracted to them. There are many
>different kinds of love, sexual love being the only one I feel sets
>gays apart from anyone else.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>	Erotic love is one fundamental definitive.  But you should also
>include another kind of love.  Many claim that the Platonic love they
>feel for members of the gender to which they are attracted is much greater
>than that which they are able to feel for members of the gender to which
>they are not attracted.
>
>	In other words, some Hetero men claim that they can love women,
>non-sexually, more deeply than men.  And likewise, Homo men often say that
>the bonds they feel for other men, platonically, are stronger than the
>platonic bonds they can feel for women.  It can be subject to 
>individuality, but this is claimed in general often.
>
Interesting point which I hadn't considered.

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