HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbb@tc.fluke.COM (Dave Bartley)
Subject: Special Contradance - Dudley Laufman April 22 in Seattle
Followup-To: poster
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:11:34 GMT

Dudley Laufman, a musician and caller instrumental in the survival and revival
of contradancing and founder of the Canterbury Country Orchestra, will be
visiting Seattle and calling a contradance on Wednesday, April 22 at the
Greenwood Masonic Hall (7910 Greenwood Avenue North) from 8PM to 11PM.  Music
will be provided by Fiddles Two, consisting of Mr. Laufman and Jacqueline
Gilman, along with some local help (including yours truly).

The flyer I have here doesn't give an admission price, but it doesn't say
it's free either.
-- 
Dave Bartley / John Fluke Mfg. Co. / P O Box 9090 / Everett, WA 98206-9090 USA
dbb@tc.fluke.COM  ....!{uw-beaver,sun,uunet}!fluke!dbb  (Tel. +1 206 356 5781)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:32:15 GMT

gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert) writes:
> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:

> Children can be quite resiliant if you give them a chance to grow.
> If they do grow up with strong healthy minds, then when they find out that
> you hid the truths of the world from them along the way, well, I'd say
> they would have good reason to stop trusting you any more.

Now we're getting into child psychology theories.  While I personally
agree with you on that issue, I must point out that they're all theories.
No one belief is any more right than another.  Because of this, we really
have to learn to live together.  If another parent wants you to observe
certain standards of behavior around his/her children, you either
respect those wishes or tell that parent to keep the kids away from
you.  If enough parents want the same standards, it is you who must
watch yourself.  Like I said, the job of the government is that the
wishes of the majority are carried out, even against the wishes of the
rest of the population.

The rest of the arguments are really pointless because we're saying the
same things; just drawing different conclusions.  Yes, we need to take
responsibility for our children.  I just don't think it's too much to
ask that society help us out a bit.

> Instead, she won't be responsible for that, so she
> wants the government to decide what is suitable (that is NOT a majority
> value judgment, it is the VALUE of those few in control), and then she
> can assume that she does not have to worry about it.  That is not what
> I would call control.  That is irresponsible.  And here children may grow
> up not appreciating it in the long run...

Actually it is a "majority value judgment".  It just happens to be the
way our government implements it.  We don't have a pure democracy, but
the effect is not that far off.  If the controlling parties act contrary
to the wishes of the majority, we/they (the majority) have the power
(theoretically) to replace them with ones we like better.  Of course,
this is different in practice, but I don't think we should get into
the subject of what's wrong with our government.

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                    | "A university is a place where people pay
Computer Facilities Manager   | high prices for goods which they then
Univ. of Washington, Tacoma   | proceed to leave on the counter when
iho@cac.washington.edu        | they go out of the store." -- Loren Eisley
From: pschwrtz@cs.washington.edu (Paul Schwartz)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 14 Apr 92 06:39:23 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <4083@sumax.seattleu.edu> harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Daniel John Harrity) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.043045.7060@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>>lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
>>
>>How is this different from the existing rating system for movies?
>
>This is the same question I've been seeking an answer to.  Yes, I 
>*know* it's a private board that rates movies and not the government,
>but is it any less wrong, by anti-censorship standards, to rate the 
>movies and then <gasp!> prohibit certain people from seeing them?
>
OK all you young squirts I'll give you a hint what's wrong.  Once upon
a time comic books were truly inovative but in the guise of protecting
the youth of the country they were censored (in the 50's) and it's taken 
40 years for them to recover.  There were also a number of UW professors
censored, and fired, again for the protection of the youth of the country.
  During the sixties/seventies the Nixon administration tried to put out a 
list of songs that were not to be played over the radio. It did not have the 
force of law so for the most part it failed.
	I'm the father of a 5 year old girl and I know that there is no way that I can prevent her from being exposed to many thing which I rather she didn't know about.  It is MY responsibility to teach her how to deal with it.  If the government was truly interested in shielding the young from overt sexuality they would go after the advertizing industry.  But they don't.  They need to control the alternative voices in America which now happens to be the voice of music.
			I'm mad as hell and
			I'm taking a nap.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Summary: She PREVENTED EVERYBODIES CHILDREN - NOT JUST HERS!
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 02:29:29 GMT

> This is exactly what she did.  She's prevented her children from buying
> albums she doesn't approve of.  The fact that other children in the state
> can't buy them either is merely an unfortunate (depending on your view of
> the matter) side-effect.

     No, she put the burden on the government and thus prevented EVERYBODIES
children from being able to buy things that some unknown person decides they
can't.

     She has the right and responsibility to decide what is right for her
children.  She passed the responsibility onto the government.  SHE DOES NOT
HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT IS OK FOR MY KIDS, AND SHE DID THAT ANYWAY!

     I am parent who DOES NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT RAISING MY KIDS!
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: Confucian censorship (shudder!)
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:07:40 GMT
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
Distribution: seattle
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma

kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417) writes:
> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:

> >In my opinion, that's what government is for: to force the values
> >of the majority on the rest of the population.
> Is this flame-bait or what??  Are you serious??

> >                                                I don't think that's
> >a bad thing.
> Don't be shy.  Please tell us, if you will, what is *good* about that??

I'm dead serious here.  We can't all go around doing as we please.  See
my statement which you've so kindly quoted below.

> >              In order to have an orderly society, each of us has to
> >forfeit certain liberties.
> This whole forum must *really* piss you off!  Don't you wish you
> could put a stop to it?  Don't you wish people were more respectful of
> the authorities?

I think you misunderstand me.  The forum does not piss me off in the
least bit.  My philosophy isn't based on blindly following rules.  It's
based on Locke's social contract theory.  While anarchy is not desirable,
a society of mindless sheep is even less so.  By the way, I think we're
getting a bit off of the topic.  We're now just talking about me, and
not about the issue.

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                    | "A university is a place where people pay
Computer Facilities Manager   | high prices for goods which they then
Univ. of Washington, Tacoma   | proceed to leave on the counter when
iho@cac.washington.edu        | they go out of the store." -- Loren Eisley
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:56:40 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <1992Apr8.210536.21677@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
/In my opinion, that's what government is for: to force the values
/of the majority on the rest of the population.

I suggest you take a long hard look at Nazi Germany.

One of the central ideas of the Constitution was to *prevent* the tyranny
of the majority by guaranteeing certain basic rights. Congress may not
pass a law that violates the Bill of Rights, for example.

It takes much more than a majority to change the Constitution.
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: prop 13
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:27:14 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <1992Apr3.234031.2684@u.washington.edu> merritt@u.washington.edu writes:
/The schools 
/(already hurting from lack of support at the state level) were absolutely
/clobbered by the drop in funding.  It got to the point where (I'm recalling
/figures here so please no flames if I'm off by 10%) the Palo Alto unified
/school district was essentially a private school, in the sense that to cover
/thir budget they had to raise more than half their operating costs by
/private donation.  Ravenswood, next door and without the population of rich
/donors, tried to make do with the state allocation and went from bad to worse
/to abysmal.

The estimates that I saw were that prop 13 would cut state revenue by
5%. So if funding got cut in half, I would say that the bureaucrats
did that on purpose. Normally, if somebody talks about tax cut, the
gov't takes it all out on police and fire. Since these are the most visible
functions, cutting them first scares people into voting back the taxes.
It sounds to me like this is what happened.

Ask J. Brown how many *staff* positions got cut (that's were the fat really
is). I bet it was none.

It is also typical for a bureaucracy faced with budget reductions to cut
costs by laying off the *bottom* level of people, i.e. the people who do
the work. The middle and upper management stays. This process can continue
until only managers and staff are left (!), thus they consume a lot of
budget and produce absolutely nothing, all the while whining about
how short of funds they are.

P.S. Businesses frequently go through 5% budget cuts without any loss
of production.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bradley@mdd.comm.mot.com (Michael Bradley)
Subject: Re: Music censorship? Well... (was: Re: music censorship in WA state)
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.054826.4343@rosedale.uucp> dcb@rosedale.uucp (Dave Breneman) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.195358.14804@u.washington.edu> pkemp@byron.u.washington.edu (Paul Kemp) writes:
>>
>>If the answer to ANY of these questions is no, then what is the use/purpose
>>of the law?
>
>
>Social Engineering.

    Some of us believe it is Social Re engineering

>
>
>-- 
>David Breneman            #################          I'm an American, dammit.
>The Spud Goodman Show      ####### #######           What gives Russians the
>dcb@rosedale.uucp           #####   #####            the right to have less
> ..uunet!camco!rosedale!dcb      (_)  - - - Ciao.    government than me?
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Requesting contractor/roofer references
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:26:26 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <70699@bcsaic.UUCP> dans@atc.boeing.com writes:
>I had troubles last year with Mickey Moss Roofing.  I had just sold  my
>house and needed to provided the buyer with a 5 year roof guarantee
>certificate.  Mickey Moss  gave me an initial cleaning and spot repair
>estimate of $350 for my shake roof.  [some stuff deleted]
>I was stuck between a rock and a cold, hard place.  The
>$350 job ended up costing me $2000, and my roof looked like a patchwork
>checker board. 

I too had trouble with Mickey Moss Roofing... in our case we had them
return 8 times to get the job done satisfactorily.  On the 8th return
trip to fix their screw-ups they had the nerve to leave a note threatening
to turn our account over to a collection agency (we had the gall to
refuse to pay them until the job was done right... ie. according to 
the specs in the contract,  shame on us!)  We ended our experience by
sending a long written complaint to the BBB.

Anyway, in my experience with them, they have a truely fitting name - 
they really are a "Mickey Mouse" operation. 


-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
From: gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:55:15 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA

In article <1992Apr10.174316.16062@u.washington.edu> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

>         Back to the music censoring
>issue, I don't believe we have enough information to determine if the
>majority of parents are in favor or against this.


Ohhhh, now I see.  Someone starts whining about their special interest...
Let's pass the law. Support the law publicly.  Oh, THEN let's find out if
there is majority support for it.

Seems counterclockwise to me...

John


-- 
John Gilbert
gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com
...!uunet!mdisea!gilbert
From: ski2@milton.u.washington.edu (Chris Kacoroski)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Chinese restaurant recommendations in kirkland
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:23:48 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

hi,

We just moved to Kirkland and are looking for a good, inexpensive
Chinese restaurant (ala Panda's in Seattle).  Appreciate your comments.


ski@atc.boeing.com
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Help getting data from UCSD P-System, Sage Computer
Keywords: UCSD P-System, File Transfer
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:41:28 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA

I need to transfer data from Sage computer running the UCSD
P-System to a UNIX box.  Is there anyone in the Seattle area
who's familiar (or once was) with these system who can help, and
would like to subcontract this work?

Worst case, we can hook a computer to the serial printer port and
print files, but I would much prefer kermit, xmodem, or some
error correcting transfer protocol that will run on the Sage.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
From: wood@eisley.UUCP (Ken Wood)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: Confucian censorship (shudder!)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:02:55 PDT
Organization: Mos Eisley BBS (763-1986)

gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert) writes:

> Consider... do you recall the pilgrims?  Do you remember why they
> left England?  Do you remember WHY they cam here?  It was to avoid
> having beliefs foisted upon them.  They were not necissarily
> a majority in England.  This country started to provide the
> opportuinity for the practice of minority beliefs freely.
> 

     For the most part I agree with you John but this part is wrong I 
believe.  I think if you really check into the subject you will find that 
this little myth, like so many we were all taught in school, is false.  The 
pilgrims left England because they were prosecuted true, but they wanted to 
set up an EVEN more intolerent society based entirly on their own religious 
beliefs.  If anything they were LESS tolerent of minority beliefs than most 
of Europe at the time.  Still I agree with the rest of your post and the 
point still holds if you look at many of the later imigrants to this 
continent.
 
     Ken Wood
 


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| polari!eisley!wood@uunet.UU.NET :     Don't eat the rocks.              |
| or  seanews!wood@nwnexus.wa.com : -The First Law of Bovine Cogitation.- |
| or even       wood@pismo.wa.com :     Who let the pigs play poker?      |
| (In above order of preference.) :     Evo Shander was right!            |
| "Don't look back, someth'in might be gaining on ya." -- Satchel Page -- |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bruceki@polari.com
Subject: Re: even the Seattle Times is blasting Jerry Brown's flat tax
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:24:21 GMT

  Mark:
  The seattle times isn't the liberal one of the two main daily papers.
  I guess you hadn't noticed.
From: leslie@iftccu.boeing.com (Dan Leslie)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: from the source of the censorship issue
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:57:22 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

:




Recently I had the most fulfilling experience.  I single-handedly started, promoted, and followed through with HB2554.  It turned out to be the most controversial bill ever.  It was the 'Erotic-Music Bill'.  Very simply, the Bill just added Sound Recordings to the current Minor's Pornography Law which already restricts the sale of XXX-magazines and XXX-movies.  The only people that were against this bill were either going to lose money (from the exploitation of children), or were ignorant of the lyrics.  T


        If you s*ck my d*ck, I'll eat your pu**y.
        Lick my a*s b*t*h up and down,
        Lick it till your tongue turns doo doo brown
        Put your lips on my d**k and suck my as*hole too.
        Suck my d**k and make it puke.
        Forget the salads and just eat my meat.
        When you don't have a d**k
           just finger-f**k yourself.
        We can do whatever comes to mind,
           let me stick my d**k in your behind.

This Bill passed overwhelmingly in the House and in the Senate.  The Lawmakers were floored when they saw the lyrics, as were most other decent and concerned people. 

Recently I came across one Kurt Cockrm who had a lot of fancy words and weird ideas of 'Freedom and Censorship'.  Never before have I come across an adult that would encourage vandalism amongst our youth.  According to Mr. Cockrm -- "I hope every teenager in the state gets a can of spray paint.  I would like to see 'Fuck Censorship' appear everywhere.  I hope that lady's house gets a coating of graffiti thicker than the paint on the walls of the bathroom of the Last Exit coffeehouse.  I hope she roasts in 


After our conversation and you said that everyone should be accountable for their actions regardless of age, I knew that you were in the Ozone.  You thought that kids should be able to buy alcohol, cigarettes, XXX-magazines, and XXX-movies regardless of age-- Again--Get down to Earth.  Could you see the disarray and mayhem?  Any decent law-abiding citizen with morals and values and also with worries of where our youth is going today would agree that these lyrics should be put in the same category as pornog


                             KAREN LESLIE.....

P.S. Your bean analogy was quite clever..HA HA!!
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: difference between the Seattle Times and the PI
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:46:28 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

The only difference between the Seattle Times and the PI is `Doonesbury.'  In
all other respects they are both ultra-liberal.  Compare the Times' biased
international news coverage with the wire services or even other Washington
State newspapers.  Sheesh, the Sun does a better job of reporting foreign
news.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@rosedale.uucp (Dave Breneman)
Subject: Re: Music censorship? Well... (was: Re: music censorship in WA state)
Organization: The Spud Goodman Show
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:48:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.195358.14804@u.washington.edu> pkemp@byron.u.washington.edu (Paul Kemp) writes:
>
>O.K. a couple of questions re: 'erotic music'.
>
>1.  Is it now illegal for a minor to have this music?
>
>2. Is it illegal for an adult to buy this music and give it to a minor?
>
>3. Is it illegal to play this music in public?
>
>4. Is it illegal to play this music to a private audience which includes
>   minors?
>
>If the answer to ANY of these questions is no, then what is the use/purpose
>of the law?


Social Engineering.


-- 
David Breneman            #################          I'm an American, dammit.
The Spud Goodman Show      ####### #######           What gives Russians the
dcb@rosedale.uucp           #####   #####            the right to have less
 ..uunet!camco!rosedale!dcb      (_)  - - - Ciao.    government than me?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: P/T Job Offer - PC Software Consulting - Seattle
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:17:24 GMT
Followup-To: seattle.general
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

PART TIME JOB OFFERED:

Small software business in Renton, WA is looking for 
a part time person to perform telephone consulting
with PC software customers as follows:

QUALIFICATIONS:
 -Good working knowledge of IBM PCs and DOS required.
 -Ability to help customers (often computer illiterate)
  solve basic installation and operation problems over
  the phone.
 -Have patience and good attitude, even when dealing
  with idiot customers.
 -An interest in sports and sport card collecting
  would be helpful (application related).
 -Paradox experience would be helpful.
 
DUTIES:
 -Answer and return customer phone calls.
 -Assist customers as necessary.
 -Answer written questions via mail.
 -Perform minor PC administration tasks such
  as doing backups.

OTHER INFO:
 - 2-6 hours per day, M-F, afternoons / early evenings.
   Weekends possible if desired.
 - Good part time job for a student.
 - Pay depending on level of expertise.  

If interested, contact:

 Emerald City Sports
 Attn: Tammy
 879 Raininer AVE N  #A202
 Renton, WA 98055
 206-772-4266
-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539     rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com     PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: seattle.general