From: f1toyl@uta.fi (Topi Ylinen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Speaking of the Ring -- without words
Summary: hugafjbilow|e.m,bunjtfiwe
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:13:25 GMT
 <1992Sep30.205223.25539@osf.org>
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland


In article <1992Sep30.205223.25539@osf.org>, coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) write
s:

> 
> Quoting from memory, and therefore probably not entirely accurately:
> "...audiences...accustomed to being served up bleeding gobbets of
> butcher's meat hacked from the living body of Wagnerian music drama
> under such titles as "Walkuerenritt", "Siegfrieds Rheinfahrt",
> [etc.]..."
> 
Yup, the main difference between Maazel's version and the standard orchestral
highlights is, that the usual orchestral selections have "symphonic"
presentations of the most famous orchestral passages as set numbers - which
may, however, not be the most crucial ones in the dramas (I say this with the
fact that the prelude to Act III of Siegfried is never featured on a high-
lights disc). Lorin Maazel's aim, however, was to present the whole tetralogy
(or a "trilogy with a prelude") of dramas in an orchestral form (i.e. without
singers) and make the whole chunk fit on one CD! He really tried to narrate
the whole story, using a symphony orchestra... and in that respect, his 
approach can be interpreted as a success. But fitting all on one CD was
foolhardy. Some of the passages are abbreviated to a ridiculous form and
simply do not "sound right". Take, for example his Walk~renritt (which is
very energetically conducted, though) or the excerpts from the second act
of Die Walk~re. Or the way he switches from Magic Fire to Mime's fright.
I am not saying that is bad - he does it in a very fluent fashion. But he
misses out some crucial passages from the viewpoint of preserving the drama.
He had to, because even a CD is not capable of containing ANY amount of music.
But I will never forgive him leaving out the prelude to the third Act of 
Siegfried - just listen to Solti&Wiener Philharmoniker play that passage 
- and just think what is happening in the play! Even without the 
lightningbolt sound effect, 
that would still blow your brains out! Did somebody say "overtly
dramatic"..? :)

> 
> Interesting thing about "Der Ring ohne Worte", to which I was exposed
> once (against my will) -- a good 3/4 of it is from
> _Goetterdaemmerung_. Does anybody else find this strange (i.e.,
> stranger than the whole concept to begin with)?
> 

G|tterd{mmerung was the only drama featured on the CD in an _acceptable_
length. All the other dramas (or possibly not Rheingold, though) were 
shortened TOO much. Siegfried and Die Walk~re missed some of the central
passages. That is obviously because Mr Maazel wanted to fit the stuff on one
CD. However, at least the following passages should have been included to
make it an acceptable abbreviation of the whole:
	-Die Walk~re: Wotan's monologue (at least partially), the closing of
	 the second act (Maazel's Siegmund is still alive), and a much longer
	 version of the final scene
	-Siegfried: Siegfried's first appearance and Wanderer's visit,
	 the Prelude to Act III (!!!!!!!!!)
Now that I begin to think about it, I can come up with more and more of 
very important passages - but at least the above should have been featured.
I think that would have taken 2-3 CD's - which would have probably made some
potential buyers very doubtful of the package.

Let's face it, though: G|tterd{mmerung is the climax, the cornerstone of the
whole work. Remember, Wagner originally planned only one drama "Siegfried's
Death", which is our G|tterd{mmerung. All the other dramas were written later 
- to fill us up with details of what has happened earlier - Siegfried's Death
could not be presented as an independent drama. G|tterd{mmerung was composed
last of the whole Ring cycle. Wagner had an enormous gap in his composing 
(about 10 years), the third act of Siegfried and the whole of G|tterd{mmerung
were composed much later than the rest of the Ring. But the music in these
is among the most elaborate Wagner ever wrote, showing amazing insight he
spins all the important motives here together. G|tterd{mmerung is the 
culmination which the other dramas point at.

Btw, when are we gonna have a vote about creating an
	rec.music.classical.opera     
or even alt.fan.wagner			newsgroup?

Just interested...

--
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TOPI YLINEN		f1toyl@kielo.uta.fi
=============================================================================
The brotherbeat to any bull-eyed bulbomasons with an applemeter of
blunderblood in his veins... the philo-oxidative paygreen pathofinder,
a terror firmly tiger-belted in a toad-twisting taxbus.
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical