HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:39:52 EST
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Christian Christmas Book!

Hi Christia!

I just wanted to let the list know that my father has just written a
children's christmas book.  The title of the book is "Silent Night. A
Mouse Tale" by Betsy Hernandez and Donny Monk (my father!).

You may recognize some of Betsy's work.  She and her husband Frank wrote
the "Hide 'Em In Your Heart" stuff for Steve Green.  They have won many
Dove awards.  They also wrote the children's musical "Bullfrogs and
Butterflies".

The publisher for the book is Sparrow Publishing in Nashville.

I believe the book is retailing for $12.95.

The story is about Straus Mouse and the writing of the christmas song
"Silent Night".  It's really good, but of course I'm biased!

I don't have any information on specific stores that are carrying it
but it should be in your local christian bookstore.  If not, I'm sure
it can be ordered.

Would people let me know if they get a copy of it so I can tell my Dad?

Thanks and enjoy!!

Julie Nott
Univ of KY
str008@ukcc.uky.edu
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 20 NOV 92  9:32:45 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:33:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Effectiveness of Church Teaching (was Gospel)

From:     Jon Reid <jmrg9881@EDU.UIUC.CSO.UXA> {edited}
> ... American Christians have serious "blind spots" in regard to their
> worldview, and can't always hear what the Spirit is saying.....
> ... wonderful Christians .... "growing closer to the Lord".....
> ... and never touch unbelievers around .... part due to the clergy/laity
> distinction ....  "professional Christian"......

Jon,

Quite so.  The Anglican idea of Parish and associated Cure of Souls is
seen as an "it is being taken care of by someone else so I can be free
to get on with other things" excuse for many people here to.  As much
as it has it's advantages, it's down side includes the buck passing.

I know it is a temptation to me to do so.  However, I know in the past and
perhaps even now, I have access to people who wouldn't go near clergy. I
can't say I see fruits from that ministry but to a certain extent I don't
expect to be there when the seeds I plant are strong enough plants to bear
fruit.

I am also aware that the one place it is most difficult to minister is at
work.  It is where the discussion tends to have to say on the job.  It is
also a place where clergy do not go.  In two years in this college, I've
seen thechaplin in my office once.  I happen to know the new chaplin
(she's been here 18 months) and only see her when it is Christmas Carol
time or whenwe meet at events not connected to the college.

Her prime job is with the students, the staff are an added extra.
Therefore, ministry here is up to me.  But the cost of ministry here by
me would be such that the job itself becomes difficult to do.  I understand
therefore when most of us duck the ministry, keep our heads down and get on
with the job.  I hope that God finds away to use the jobs we do as a ministry
as much as the sort of ministry which includes direct witnessing.  I feel
that the ministry of "The Christian Presence" is as valuable as any other.
It is different and it can change lives - it changed mine, quietly, slowly,
gently and possibly all the more dramatically because of it - but that is
another post.

So, where does that leave us ?  We have two parts to our ministry to the
non-christians.  Firstly to directly witness and go about making disciples
for Jesus where we can and to witness by our Christian Presence where we
can't.  Secondly, to build up and inspire our fellows to do like wise and
not leave the care of our fellow worshippers to the clergy.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:08:07 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RESPONSE TO DAN GRAHAM

Hi Dan,

I read  your post on homosexuals  and totally agree with  your statement.
It  was beautifully  stated and  well written.  I just  by chance  looked
in  on  that topic  and  glad  I did.  Keep  up  the good  work  (Smile).

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:38:03 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: blessings

On Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:28:56 EST jones, mark said:
>Dear Madge McBurney,
>I wanted to share something with you which I feel will be a blessing to
>you, given your heart and vision for CHRISTIA, as you have recently expressed:
>I contacted privately a colleague on our campus whom I indadverdently found
>was subscribed to CHRISTIA. She told me that she was out of fellowship
>with the Lord for some time, and that the list has encouraged her and helped
>her to grow into fellowship once again. Praise God! I have only been on for
>about a week, and already I cant wait to check my mail each morning. Thank
>you Madge, God Bless and have a wonderful and blessed holiday....Mark

Thank you so very much Mark!  You have no idea what a lift this was to me.

Madge McBurney
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 12:56:26 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: The bashing of a Saint.

Dave Talaga,

We have just a few Moslem, Homosexuals, New-Agers, Witches or Atheists on
this list, and the ones that are suscribed have shown a very kind and
understaning actitude, not seen in some of those who claim to be Christians.

Shalom,
Memo.
From: ST403077@BROWNVM.BITNET (Daniel Brabander)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays in the military
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:47:16 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Julie-

      I fail to understand your reasoning.  Gay people do not lust over
      straight people anymore than a straight person might lust over a
      gay person (i.e. Have you or anyone you know lusted for a gay man?)

      I think that a lot that has been said on this list in general about
      sexuality stems from the fact there is a great deal of polarizartion
      between these groups of people (for example how many of the people
      on this list who have very strong feelings on this issue have ever
      sat down and spoken with a person who was gay).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: Danny W. McCampbell <danny@utkux1.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: Ozzy Osbourne
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A72CFF160501CC3E@revelation.utcc.utk.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12: 32:38 GMT
Organization: The University of Tennessee
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:35:52 GMT

I saw an interview with Ozzy a while back on some TV station.
Ozzy said that he is indeed a practicing Catholic.  He said he
only created the lyrics to his songs as well as his style of music
to sing because is sells to kids.  He said he was simply in
the money making business, but he would not denounce is faith in God.

The Bible tells us to judge someone by the fruit that they bare.
Is Ozzy bearing good fruit?

Danny
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:49:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

<I did not say that God forbids gay people in the Military.

Then I misunderstood you because of the threaqd title.

<God speaks against it with the situation of Sodem and Gommirah.

This is up for debate.  I don't know if people opn the list want to hear the
argument against S&G being about Homosexuality, but about hospitality again, so
I will send it to you privately.

<I misspelled it but you know what I'm talking about.  Read Leviticus and
<Romans. I will look up the exact chapters and send them to you.   God does not
<like it and niether should we as followers.

We have reached that point in the cycle again where there are people who do not
know me.  I am not a Christian, but a Wiccan.  Please confine questions on
Wicca to private e-mail.

Dan
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Point to Jesse
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:27:24 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              18 Nov 1992 17:53:23 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Dear Steve Creps ;

Actually, Tom and I (Jesse) wrote the same statement, almost exactly verbatim.


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: S096216@UMRVMA.umr.edu
Subject: To Get Bible Memorization Tip
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:38:32 GMT
Organization: Univ of MO - Rolla

If you want the Bible Memorization Tip, just email me and I'll get it to
you as fast as possible.  I will include some of the comments that other
people put on CHRISTIA so that you get the "full story" :)

Walter T. Stephens  graduate student in Ceramic Engineering/Mud Jock
at the University of Missouri-Rolla INTERNET S096216@UMRVMA.umr.edu

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:18:12 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ozzy Osbourne

> Ozzy has been Christian his entire life, and has never claimed otherwise.

No one has ever been "Christian his entire life." Christ came to save
sinners, not Christians.

Tom
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:58:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: I'm back!

Ian's back, but I'm off. Nice to know that we Aussies will not be completely
absent. I've got - sob,sob ;-) - two conferences to attend in the next
fortnight. And it's real sad that they're in New Zealand. At least, I think
my wife thinks so anyway. She's sick as a dog at the thought of me going &
leaving her with the boys for 14 days.

Actually she's got a dose of the flu.... (I have been known once or twice to
exaggurate things a little.....)

I'll check the mail again over the weekend before I go NOMAIL.

I'll see if I can ring John Jensen in Auckland when I'm there. One conference
is in Auckland, one just outside of Christchurch. Real sad again......

It's good to "see" Marty & Lonnie back on deck. Thanx Marty for the insight
you've given me of the RC church over the last little while. With Ian back, the
voice of Oz (this is a commonly used euphemism for AUstralia in case anyone gets
paranoid about literature) will not be still no doubt.

I'd like to register my thanks for prayers / interest /private posts etc over
the last year. They are very much appreciated and returned. The sources may
surprise some others.

Anyway, it's time to do the taxpayer a favour (ie get back to my interrupted
work....)

Love & prayers (and maybe I can get a Usenet feed while I'm in NZ)
Ken Diefenbach

PS

I did it I did it- not one single New Zealand joke......

For those of you who mightn't know Aussies & Kiwis like taking each other down
as a national pastime.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Subject: Re:      Re: Now ... Just what ARE Polemics?
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:51:12 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92111911312237@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Jesse writes:
> Dear Bill ;
> 
> Question :
> 
> "Why BE on Christia if TRUTH, its promulgation, and application, are NOT our
> "Prime Directive"?

The following was written by the listowners.

# And now a reply to those who want to know: "What is the list
# CHRISTIA@ASUACAD all about?"
#
# The full name of the list is "Practical Christian Life". From the
# List Description by the original Listowner (Mr. Joni Makivirta of
# Finland, no longer with us), I gather that it was originally
# intended to be a medium for advice and encouragement, a forum in
# which Christians discuss how to deal with, and exchange accounts of
# how they have tried to deal with, various problems and situations in
# a Christian manner, as well as being a place for the sharing of
# prayers and praises. In practice, it has also included a fair amount
# of theoretical discussion and theological exchange -- which may not
# be exactly what Joni intended -- as well as some other exchanges
# which I am confident he did not intend.

I suppose maybe all that comes under the heading of the "application" of
truth. But still, there's a lot more to it than arguing over our disagreements
as to what the truth is.

> I am puzzled ... really.  Our LOVE for one another ... our UNITY with one
> another are all defined within the perameters of the Word of God.
> Why is it so wrong to want to see the issuing of Truth as one's motive for
> wanting to be on Christia?  Does not Truth set us free?

Yes, it does. Knowing the truth sets us free indeed. But arguing about the
truth all too often leads not to freedom but to ill-feeling, division and
resentment.

> Bill, I am not going to try to put you on the spot, but I really would like
> some others to come up with real evidence of my alleged pugnaciousness.
> I am not trying to evade any possible culpability here.  I am really NOT
> convinced as to their charges.
> Can they cite some cases and let me see what they are referring to?

You have asked us not to put anything "personal" in CHRISTIA, but instead to
send such things by private e-mail. I suggest that anyone intending to do as
Jesse suggests should do it in this way, if only in the interests of politeness.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:52:41 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 11/17

"When a person sins, he breaks God's law.  Yes, sinning is the same as living
against God's law.  You know that Christ came to take away sins.  There is no
sin in Christ.  So the person who lives in Christ does not go on sinning.  If
he goes on sinning, he has never really understood Christ and has never known
him" (1 John 3:4-6).

"... Their thinking became useless.  Their foolish minds were filled with
darkness.  They said they were wise, but they became fools ... God let them go
their sinful way.  They became full of sexual sin ... and in their bodies they
received the punishment for those wrongs ... They hate God ... They do not obey
their parents ... they do not keep their promises ... They know God's law says
that those who live like this should die.  But they continue to do these evil
things.  And they also feel that those who do these things are doing right"
(Romans 1:18-32).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: suffering
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:46:37 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Nice to see you put in a good word for suffering.

We might remember on Thanksgiving, that many of our brothers and sisters are
in prison and are on restricted diets.  While we have so much to be thankful
about, let's remember our suffering brothers - and be thankful for them (sis-
ters as well!).

This week I read something on suffering that you might find interesting and
possibly helpful:

there is a >...distinction between intentional suffering and voluntary
suffering.  Sometimes one can voluntarily inflict suffering on oneself in
order to gain a particular result for one's benefit.  An athlete will inflict
suffering upon himself, undergoing severe training and exert a great deal
of self-control in order to develop his powers as an athlete.  Such voluntary
suffering is quite different from intentional suffering.  Intentional suffer-
ing is accepting the consequences of actions one undertakes for the benefit
of others.  Anyone who sincerely wishes to do something for the benefit of
others must understand that this will always bring trouble on himself....
Intentional suffering simply means that one accepts the consequences of one's
actions, knowing that this will include painful experiences.  Voluntary suffer-
ing is different.  Here one is doing something for a definite purpose, in
general, for one's own benefit, as a miser will starve to fill his coffer.<

>...right living will always involve payment and sacrifice.  It is not
fashionable nowadays to accept the necessity of suffering because we do not
wish to admit the necessity to suffer if we are to serve.<

The above quotations are from a book by J.G. Bennett.

Speaking of the Jesuits, may God have mercy on us all.  I don't know any
personally that I know of anyway, but I have to admit they provide a rigorous
education.

Well, have a good Thanksgiving Eric, (and everyone else!)  Peace, zane.
From: Lubosh <Lubosh.Hanuska@anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Point to Jesse
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:35:41 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
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X-XXDate: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:35:50 GMT

In article <BxM001.B20@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Steve Creps,
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>>Well, if God is not in control ... WHO or WHAT IS????
This is not an accurate perception of Eric's arguments - at least from my
point of view. God can always take over control of anything, I didn't
find anything by which Eric would deny it. His point to Jesse probably
(or my point) would be: God by His own allmighty will gave us that unique
gift - our FREE WILL, which enables us to DECIDE on our own destiny. The
more one thinks about it, the more complex it becomes, and probably our
human perception is too weak to understand it fully... But - to make a
simplified conclusion and to answer the question given above: WE DECIDE
ON OUR OWN MATTERS (it is a question how good our perception of good and
evil is), but God CAN affect ANYTHING HE WANTS, because He is the
Almighty... (and as I said He does not want to be in total control to
leave our free will intact,... He will take over on the last day to
replace the free will He gave us [ I hope I'll be in it  :-) ] with
something much more !). 
Yours in Christ,
Lubosh
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:44:38 CST
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Ken's post to Shelby...

Hey, gang...ok so I've been off the list for a few days due to workload
here at school...what's with the post that Ken replied to??? What happened
to this little boy/girl???
Fill me in, because I sure don't know what it was about, other than
the header read "URGENT PRAYER REQUEST!!"
I'd appreciate it if you'd fill in the blanks for me.
"G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:04:22 EST
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Christians *before* gays?

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


>There was Christians before there were Gays, Atheist, and ungodly people.

Christians have been around for a little less than 2000 years, yet
homosexuality and atheism have been around practically since the beginning
of time, certainly during recorded history, *before* Christianity was
ever even thought about, much less practiced.

>Trying to justify something that is wrong in the eye sight of God is ungodly.

I never claimed to by like a god, so i guess that makes me ungodly.

>Christianity has been around for so long and the word was here before we were
>we can either accept or reject it.   Being gay is offensive and will be until
God removes all of us.  The reason for all those things you mentioned are going
>on is because the devil has those people's mind.  They just need to repent.


Being christian, at least being christian to the point of condeming all others,
offends me and is offensive to many, including christians.  I also don't
understand this constant blaming the devil for the inadequacies of humans,
but i think that issue has been covered recently, and we don't need to
dredge up any more old conversations.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Subject: Re: Effectiveness of Church Teaching (was Gospel)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:11:34 GMT

Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:

>It is true that doctrine does not necessarily lead to a person either becoming
>a Christian, growing as a Christian or "rubbing" off on to others, but this is
>true if the Spirit of God does not ACT within the context of the FIRST
>situation, same for the second situation, and the same for the latter
>scenario.

>If a person is not sincere before the Lord, he can listen and still be the
>same as he was prior to a doctrinal message.  The Spirit of God is the one
>who gives us the Grace unto Salvation to be Born Again, he also gives us
>Grace in our Sanctification (our walk in Christ as Believers), and he
>gives Grace to not let His Word come back void of power, one way or the
>other. 

This is quite true -- it is all a work of the Holy Spirit.  However, I feel
that American Christians have serious "blind spots" in regard to their
worldview, and can't always hear what the Spirit is saying.

In particular, there are many wonderful Christians in this country who
content themselves with "growing closer to the Lord" and enjoying
fellowship with believers, who are active in Bible studies and other church
activities -- and never touch unbelievers around them in meaningful,
life-changing ways.  This is in large part due to the clergy/laity
distinction and the notion of the "professional Christian" which is so
deeply ingrained into our church structures and consequently,
unconsciously, in our whole understanding of Christianity.

Good doctrine is necessary -- but it is not sufficient.  If we Christians
go on basically living our own lives as we please, striving only to improve
our own walk with God without much thought for the people around us who are
going to hell, *do we really believe* what we profess?
-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."