HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of love
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
	<91407@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:58:29 GMT

crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

   My sweetie (nice term, that) and I are reading through "The Chronicles of
   Narnia" together.  What books have you all read with your sweet patooty? 
   What books read well with another person?  What effect, if any, did doing
   this have on the relationship?  

My sweetie and I seemed to end up with a lot of inside jokes from the
books we'd read together.  Children's books seem to be particularly
fertile ground for this.  Once we entertained each other on a
long-distance drive by reading "The Wind in the Willows" aloud.  We
had a lot of fun with it -- poop-poop!  We also used to make up our
own "Frog and Toad" stories.

-Sandra

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: literature students
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:56:54 GMT

INFIDEL writes:

	If Barclay is frustrated by wet-behind-the-ears uni students, 
	why doesn't she do the sensible thing and get out and meet the 
	people of her calibre ? Travel to Asia, for instance. 

Which reminds me. One of the ancient rituals in Australia, well, Western 
Australia, is, was, for kids leaving school to take off overseas for a
couple of years. It seemed then like an excellent idea that should export
itself to the Old and other New Worlds.

							Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of love
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:47:34 GMT

In article <9210020433.AA26469@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> 
>So -- stop your hedging.  Tell us how, tell us when, tell us why, and tell
>us how literature helped!
> 

Well, it was a movie that brought my eventual spouse and I together
(Liquid Sky), but books keep us there!  There's little so romantic as
curling up in bed and reading (out loud, of course) a chapter of
Douglas Adams or _Red Dwarf_...  (well, there's some other stuff by
the bedside too, but I won't go into that...)

- Stephanie Fysh
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:35 PDT
Subject: Life of Galilei (Brecht)
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1446700010:000:145
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Sep 30 09:35:00 1992


Any recommendation available for a English translation of Berthold Brecht's
"Leben des Galilei" (Life of Galilei)?

Goetz Kluge
Seoul 1992/09/30

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:39:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.012405.28579@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
}*Norman Mailer* is an intellectual vampire bitch.  (But at least 
}he can think his way out of a paper bag, and jesus can he write.) 

Paglia ain't stupid either, no matter if she disagrees with you or whomever.
I don't agree with her completely (albeit probably more than most), but I
don't have to resort to calling her stupid because of this.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: rsdean@apgea.army.mil (Robert S. Dean <rsdean>)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books as decoration?
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:34:28 GMT
Organization: ATE1 S7=255 S11=55 V1 X1 S0=0

In article <Bv3C8C.CqC@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rolf@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>  I was reading a book out of a large set of Kipling that I picked up
>at a large book sale, when I found that several of the pages had 
>never been cut. And this was a 1922 edition! It seems that this book
>has been a decoration on one shelf or another for 70 years. And it
>was not one of the obscure ones out of this 35 volume set -  it was
>"The Jungle Book". Makes you sad, doesn't it?
>-- 
>Rolf Wilson     Illinois State Geological Survey    rolf@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu


Look on the bright side--the book has at last come to someone who wants to read
it.  I have to say that this sort of thing is not at all uncommon--in the last
year or so I got copies of Robert Louis Stevenson's _The Black Arrow_ with the
N.C. Wyeth illustrations which had a number of uncut pages, and of Sir Charles
Oman's _The Byzantine Empire_.  The latter was published around 1891, and more
than 2/3rds of the pages were uncut (vagaries in the binding methods, you know).

I chortled all the way home from the bookstore "Poor little book, you've never
been read until now, over a century later..."

Rob Dean
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 28 Sep 1992 16:05:28 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1a81ioINNovv@lindy.Stanford.EDU> 
jon@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:

| ... it was immediately apparent to me that Paglia's review was a
| piece of character assassination based on scholarly ignorance or, more
| often, deliberate distortion -- a hatchet job which was not only
| mean-spirited but hypocritical, since the authors of the books in
| question (one of whom had died of AIDS shortly before Paglia's article
| was written and was thus beyond responding to her slurs) both had
| career-long records of vigorous political activism in the cause of
| antidiscrimination, whereas for all her pseudopopulist bluster Paglia's
| own real-world political credentials are, to the best of my knowledge,
| null.

Do please let me know what a scholar's "vigorous political 
activism in the cause of antidiscrimination" has to do with
the quality of his work in Classics.

Arne


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Who reads Rushdie?
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:25:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.154958.15479@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> theep@squid.ecn.purdue.edu (Pratheep Balasingam) writes:

>Rushdie, on the 
>other hand, doesn's come across as a "pro" in this style of writing. 
>Any defenders?

Rushdie writes for the ear. If you can't hear his voices in your head, try
reading him aloud. His English prose is far more poetic than the (acceptable)
English-language translations of Marquez. I suspect you'd find Marquez in
his native language to have a rather different feel from what you read in
translation.

>Finally, I want to know what western fans get out of Rushdie.

The music of a brilliant writer who loves English. The torment of a man caught
between two cultures.



--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The unpronounceable Paglio
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:39:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Oct6.213945.2868
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

> Is there any agreement on the "proper" pronunciation of Miss Paglio's
> name? I suspect there are many who only see the name without any sound
> atteched -- and perhaps that is how it should be. I know how the Brits
> will say it. For them it must be
> 
> 		PAG-lee-oh

    Like Pagliacci, I expect.

                                                -- jf
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: john@slinky.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Lodder)
Subject: Re: Kafka's "Metamorphasis"
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:11:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.155609.19271@gtephx.UUCP> meredithd@gtephx.UUCP  
(Douglas Meredith) writes:
> My first interpretation was that the story was an allegory for the  
alienation
> a person might go through upon contracting some terminal, socially tabu  
disease.
> However, on further reflection, this seemed a little trite.  Is there  
something
> more going on here that I'm just too allegorically dense to see?  Are  
there
> Cliffs Notes available for Kafka? (just kidding!)
> 
> -- 
> | Doug Meredith                                                    |
> | UUCP: {ncar!noao!asuvax | uunet!zardoz!hrc}!gtephx!meredithd     |
> | Inet: gtephx!meredithd@asuvax.eas.asu.edu                        |
> | AG Communication Systems (Formerly GTE), Phoenix, AZ             |

If it's any help, W.H. Auden once said that Kafka's work is primarily  
religious in nature, so maybe "Metamorphasis" can be seen as an  
exploration of what humanity can truly do a person who has and expresses  
real need (Gregor Samsa taken as, say, the consummate leper).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Subject: Re: The Talk Of The Town
Summary: advertisments  
Keywords: pretentious vulgar materialism
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:16:30 GMT


Why do you even bother reading the ads?  I seldom pay any attention 
to them.  (Only once, when reading an issue of "Newsweek," did the 
sheer quantity of advertisements irritate me so much that I ripped 
every one of them out.  Then, out of curiosity, I counted the pages 
remaining in the magazine and compared the figure to the number that 
had been discarded.  There were slightly more pages of advertising.) 

Barbara, the Sort of Person who reads The New Yorker
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: food
Keywords: OK, then, books on food
Date: 26 Sep 92 23:55:30 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS


 
In article <1452@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro) writes:

> >        I am looking for a suggested/favorite(s) booklist, the
> >        general topic is: food.

*Darkness in Summer* (*Natsu no Yami*) by Takashi Kaiko (publishes under the
name Kaiko Ken in Japan).  A stunningly written tale of a love that moves
along an axis of food and sleep.  Despite or because of a number of years
spent in Japan, I am not a fan of Japanese literature, but this is a fine
work in any language.

Rage away,

meg
 
 


-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:40:19 GMT

In article <MATT.92Sep28160654@physics.berkeley.edu>, matt@physics.berkeley.edu writes...

>I did, however, read an exchange between Paglia and Naomi Wolf in _The
>New Republic_ a couple of months back, and Paglia came across as 
>very vindictive and unpleasant, far more interested in ridiculing Wolf
>than in holding any kind of discussion.

Which is precisely what most of the r.a.b.ble like to do around here.

The best use we can make of the personal invectives aimed at one 
target or another is discern some of the prejudices and/or orientations
of the attacker - but that's pretty much it.  

But little discussion is made over the merits of the subject's ideas. 
In the years before WWII Germany dismissed Einstein's and Freud's theories
as "Jewish science", after the war the Soviet Union dismissed much 
psychological theory as "Capitalistic", but those labels do not speak to
the merits of the theories themselves.  I see that happening here.  Ad
hominem ejaculation after ad hominem ejaculation.   And the most popular
one these days I guess is "sexist".   The history of world ideas teaches
a pretty consistant lesson.  Even those who are proved right in the end
were not 100% right all the time, and those who are history's losers
were not totally off the track at all times either.

It is a normal part of our nature to create heroes to worship, and make
them all good, and the "other guys" all bad - especially during our
younger years when we first find our voice and we use it sort of
indescriminately in our excitement of its novelty.  But in our rush to be
on the right side, we can lose sight of what is correct, and waste time
finding our way back to it, if, like the bull about to charge, we 
concentrate on the red flag of the label instead of the point of the idea.

The reality of the situation right now is that there is little real data
to support many of the ideas that come under the categories of social
concern - male/female biology vs sociology; nature/nurture; sociobiology;
etc.  All these things are up in the air.   I know much is published about
these topics, but nothing clear has emerged - certainly nothing clear enough
to justify the kind of confidence that Darwin's once controversial Natural
Selection theory now enjoys, or Einstein's Relativity.

If someone is sexist, its opinion on something may still be valid, just as
a homosexual's, or a conservative's, or liberal's, or yours.  But it really
doesn't do anything to discredit their opinion and advance yours when you point
your finger at them and say "nyaaa nyaaa nya nyaaa nyaaaa!"

And if we're not careful, we suffer that sting that comes when some asshole is
right about something.


Ron
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: The Talk Of The Town
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: world,local
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:52:25 GMT

In article <2594@ceylon.gte.com> vks0@bunny.gte.com (Vijay Samalam) writes:
>Mike responding to my criticism of the New Yorker 
>is characteristically terse but unaccountably cryptic.
>He says :
>
>> But this is the first issue I've
>> found readable in a months of Sundays.
>
>Why ???

Characteristically terse, eh? You missed me in the old days.

The nice thing about this issue of THE NEW YORKER was paging through it
and discovering that it didn't contain Part III of some interminable John
McPhee geological opus or an Elizabeth Drew meditation on Dan Quayle's
personality conflicts with Nina Totenberg.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"Liberty resides in the rights of that person
mnemonic@eff.org| whose views you find most odious."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --John Stuart Mill
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:46:17 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep27.171244.10283@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
=>Mike Godwin writes:
=>>You're misreading Paglia. She's not talking about STDs.
=>
=>What are STDs?  

Standard Trunk Dialling - an outmoded expression in the new white heat
of British Telecom.


-- 
=======Jeremy Henderson========jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk===============
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:31:35 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <9209290327.AA03235@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu (Heather) writes:
# # Having spent my entire life between the two camps, I have noted with
# # great interest that conservatives seem, on the whole, to be more
# # willing to engage in intellectual debate than "liberals", who are
# # often so hostile to opposing viewpoints that they dissolve into
# # incoherent rage when their doctrinaire opinions are challenged.
#  
# Has Heather been hanging around Sonoma State?  I know LOTS of liberals who
# are not hostile to opposing viewpoints.  Hell -- I AM one.  But (hee hee)
# Heather is welcome to her opinion.
#  
# Mark

Sonoma State has no monopoly on intolerant, rigid, bigoted and
frothing-at-the-mouth liberals.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: WWII Novels?
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:08:11 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <6809@transfer.stratus.com>, bhahn@sw.stratus.com (Bill Hahn) writes:
> Has anyone mentioned Erich Maria Remarque's <<Zeit zu Leben, Zeit zu Sterben>>
> ("Time to live, Time to die")?   About a German soldier on the Russian front
> during WWII.   Hollywood actually made a movie from this novel, but changed
> the title (of course) to "Time to Live, Time to Love".
> 
> Bill Hahn               bhahn@sw.stratus.com

We read it in a German class in high school (in German), and my 
recollection is that it is primarily about his furlough home, with
a very depressing picture of life in Germany, after the initial
euphoria of the early victories had worn off, and the bombing
raids and food shortages had began to take their toll.  A very
grim work.

I believe that the English translation of the book was _Time To Live,
Time To Love_.  I'm not sure that Hollywood was guilty of this one.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: literature students
Date: 27 Sep 92 16:28:01 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I was harsher than I meant to be in my reply to Barclay's comments about
nonwhite, nonmale writers in credit courses...obviously, many teachers can deal
inspiringly and insightfully with all kinds of writers in the classroom. The
primary advantage of the classroom over the kitchen table, as a venue for
education, is that a good teacher can deal systematically with a body of
knowledge rather than haphazardly.

But a literature course, by definition, is really pretty technical. It's not a
propaganda course, not a course in socializing people, not a course in raising
political awareness...though it may in practice be all those things.

A literature course starts from the premise that writing can create powerful
intellectual and emotional responses in its readers, and by carefully analyzing
such writing we can understand the principles that give it such power. Such
analysis inevitably detaches itself from the original experience. In exchange
for the Wow! we first experienced, we now feel Ah...Aha! as we understand what
the magician's trick is. The Aha! may be as strong a feeling, but it's usually
not concerned with the original message--only with understanding why the author
could endow the message with so much power.

At a distance of centuries, we can footnote The Battle of Maldon because the
passion and grief of its author are so distant from us; but it's much harder to
dissect the rhetoric of modern writers who express a present and continuing
injustice. The university, because it tries very wisely to detach itself from
daily concerns in the outside world, isn't really a good place for
propagandizing against such injustice. (Granted, many students and professors
are pushovers for such propaganda, but look at how little progress they've made
since the 1960s in redressing racial, environmental and political problems in
North America.)

So read the tame writers in class; read the wild writers in their natural
habitat, the streets and bars and kitchens where real social change happens.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:08:01 GMT



nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
 
> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
 
>   I didn't pick them out, the school system (at least here), already
>   does it.  It's called streaming.  And I don't call throwing
>   Shakespeare at 13-year-olds who've never even read a whole novel an
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   "invitation".  Seems more like a threat to me.
 
> There in a nutshell, the ghastly truth.
 
> How do these people exist? By the time I was thirteen I'd read about a
> thousand novels. They were my raison d'etre. I spent more time reading
> than I did asleep. Maybe I was a little extreme, but not to have read
> a single novel by that age is a complete tragedy.
 
 
They exist because people like Ms Fysh don't think they can handle anything
difficult, and only allow them to get near pablum, which bores them to tears,
causing them to stop reading at an early age.
 
I do not speak from conjecture, but from experience.  I stopped reading
books when I was 13 because I was bored by what was available, and did
not have teachers or parents who guided me in choosing more challenging
books.
 
During the next 8 years, I read as few novels as possible.  I spent a
fair amount of time reading the encyclopaedia, and would read magazines,
but tried to avoid literature as much as possible.
 
Had I been challenged, had I been given something like Shakespeare maybe
I would have started reading earlier.  I like to think that I've made
up for this deficit -- but imagine that there are LOTS of people out
there who rarely read anything for exactly the same reasons that I
stopped.
 
Ms Fysh underestimates the abilities of teenagers.  It is a good thing that
she is in a university setting rather than in a high school or middle
school.  I wouldn't want her anywhere near any impressionable teenagers.
 
Mark
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature of Travel (Was Re: literature students)
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:18:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <9209301734.AA27249@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>> I'd like to choose India.  Anyone have any suggestions for
>> possibly appropriate books that aren't written by Forester
>> or Jabvahl?  (I like them, but I've read them already.)

>I wonder if Lauren means Forster.  If not, there is A PASSAGE TO INDIA.

Oops.  Let's see ... maybe Forester is Forster in a red-and-black plaid
lumberjack jacket?  

I always screw that up.  I did indeed mean Forster.



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Books as decoration?
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 08:13:34 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <2830005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith) writes:
>I recently borrowed from the local library a translation of a book
>by Anatole France about penquins that were transformed into
>men (dammed if I can remember the title--salinity must be setting
>in).  It had been stamped about 10 times before I got it.  I found
>some uncut pages at about page 40.  I wonder what those other ten
>readers were expecting?

	I picked up a copy of this book some years back because
	of the author's fame, (I had just finished Cyrano, or 
	Miserables or The Age of Ideas or somesuch, and did not
	get very far -- it was too darn boring.  _Penguin Island_,
	or something with 'blue' or 'dolphin' in it.

>B.S!

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
From: jessec@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:10:46 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana


   Check out Lucius Shepard's *Life During Wartime*.  In it, a fictional 
novel by a fictional author about a fictional novelist turns out to be 
more real than many other things.


   --Jesse.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books