HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:46:00 PST
From:         FOXS@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU
Subject:      Re: McKinley's methodology in 1899 (keeping Philippines)
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Richard Jensen:

If someone prays, and then "it comes to him," I say that's as close
to hearing from God as one can get.  History isn't a court of law;
we get some discretion, don't we?  What's the corroboration here?  And
if you told, would anyone believe you?  Peace....

-Steve Fox-
History Department
Humboldt State University
Arcata, CA  95521
(707) 826-4788
Internet:  foxs@axe.humboldt.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:36:12 -0500
Reply-To:     "Cheryl P. Lewis" <cpl@po.CWRU.Edu>
From:         "Cheryl P. Lewis" <cpl@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Somalia Was Re: The Spanish/American War
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Dear Mr. George:

I fully realize that there are many Constitutional barriers to dis-
arming individuals judged to be dangerous to society, and that the poverty
experienced by many here in the United States cannot and should not be
compared to the many deprivations that the Somalians have experienced.
I was just recounting the feelings expressed by some Americans about
our assistance to the Somalians.

--
Cheryl Lewis           (216) 368-2792
Circulation Assistant   cpl@po.cwru.edu
Law Library
Case Western Reserve University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@IRLEARN.BITNET
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Length: 231
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:48:01 GMT
From:         George Welling <welling@FREYA.LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Re: H-Net guide to lists; additions, comments, drops??
              at Dec 17, 92 08:41:40 am

>
>
>
> One suggestion would be the Early Modern Europe list --
> emhist-1@rutvm1
>
> Andrew Rowden
>
That list could use some re-animation.


George Welling
welling@let.rug.nl


REALITY.SYS corrupted. Reboot universe? (y/n)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@IRLEARN.BITNET
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Length: 1658
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:06:06 GMT
From:         George Welling <welling@FREYA.LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Re: Sunk ships
              from"JCFITZHARRIS@STTHOMAS.EDU" at Dec 17, 92 07:51:00 pm

> George Welling's latest posting ( Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:48:01 GMT) ended without
> his now usual fleet.  Did Bob strike again?  Or is MS/DOS virus spreading
> .bat and .exec contaminants onto the net?  Reboot the universe George!
>
> Joe Fitzharris
> JCFitzharris@stthomas.edu
My ships are still intact. I could not resist copying a joke of one of my
students. He has them in all sorts, like
       file creation error in .resources. reformat harddisk? (y/n)
       fatal error in SOCIETY.SYS. Recompile humanity ? (y/n)
       unrecoverable errors in HISTORY.EXE. Reboot conscience ? (y/n)
Excuses for just making fun, instead of talking history.

             =                         =                           =
          ___|_____                 ___|_____                   ___|_____
         /         __|____         /         __|____           /        __|____
      _|__        /      /     _|__         /      /      _|__         /      /
    /    /_______/______/     /    /_______/______/      /    /_______/______/
   /____/    | ______|__     /____/    | ______|__      /____/    | ______|__
______|______|_\  o o o | ______|______|_\  o o o |  ______|______|_\  o o o |
    \  o o o o o o o o  |     \  o o o o o o o o  |      \  o o o o o o o o  |
     \                 /       \                 /        \                 /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     George M. Welling - dep.Alfa-Informatica HCI - University of Groningen
     phone : +31 50 63 54 74  | fax : +31 50 63 49 00  | welling@let.rug.nl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@UBVM
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@UBVM"
X-VMS-Cc: IRWIN
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:50:00 EDT
From:         "DR. BARBARA J. IRWIN @ COMMUNICATION" <IRWIN@CANISIUS.BITNET>
Subject:      JOBS

CAN SOMEONE LET ME KNOW IF THERE IS A HOTLINE FOR POSTINGS OF ACADEMIC
TEACHING POSITIONS IN HISTORY?  I KNOW SUCH HOTLINES EXIST FOR OTHER
DISCIPLINES.

IRWIN@CANISIUS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:01:41 EST
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GITVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

>                                                           Any grassroots
>support for the atrocity of 1898 was certainly predicated on the ideal that
>"we" had the ideal society, and that it was "our" duty to export that social
>ideal to the rest of the world.

Isn't this really true?  Especially if you remove such baiting phrases as
"ideal society" and "our duty"?  Do you know of any third world country which
does not want to live as we do?

Lenny
From: S30285@BC750.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Franklin Discussion list?
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:54:07 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET"

Brett Charbeneau,
        What is the Franklin list?  What do they discuss?
                                Thanks, Barton Starr
From: ECNROBINSON@ORBSEN.UCG.IE (Energy is eternal delight!)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Somalia and tied aid
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:14:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@irlearn.ucd.ie
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@irlearn.ucd.ie"
Comments: To: history@irlearn.ucd.ie

Dear Kevin Landdeck;

     I specifically said "some pro-Western government" without
specifying that it had to be a democracy (in Somalia).  My point was
basically that we need to be sure that our troops are not risking their
lives for a temporary alleviation of hunger which would immediately
return upon our departure.  The UN has made Somalia a UN protectorate
as a condition of sending in our troops.  As such, the UN has taken
responsibility for setting up conditions in Somalia such that food
supplies will continue to get through.  I do not see how an
anti-Western government would be willing to cooperate with the US
enough to allow the US to feed its people, and take care of them, while
simultaneously hating the US...  It seems horribly inconsistent.
how about a pro somalia government?

Hence, I would insist that a pro-Western government be set up, with the
aid of US forces, such that the Somali people can be saved from future
problems of this sort, without the need for further US intervention,
so far so good
and such that the debt owed us for our assistance can be repaid,
>>Now you are really pushing it here with this debt business.
The whole problem in Somalia and indeed the horn of Africa  and the state of
their economies comes  from the pumping of arms  by the US and USSr vying for
control in the region.So the US is paying off a debt not getting a credit for
itself.

perhaps with a military base within the country, since it was pointed
out that it DOES have valuable strategic location.
Cold war is over mate.
..  Why not get
something in return.  Are we to give of our selves all the time, and
expect nothing in return?  Why?
Why???You caused the problem.Waken up and smell the coffee.


  Clearly they cannot survive without
our assistance, so we should unconditionaally aid them, but is it
really wrong to ask for a stable pro-US government in return for saving
their lives?  I think not.
If  what you are suggesting is a puppet regime, I think yes


  Besides, what anti_US government is there
in the world in which the people prosper and enjoy a high standard of
living?  I submit that there are NONE!  What the world needs to save it
from itself is a little good old Western Imperialism.  That will
sureely do nothing but good for the world's people!
So now all governments are either pro US or anti US.Black or white ,no grey?



Paul Robinson
University College Galway
Ireland
Ecnrobinson.orbsen.ucg.ie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 11:16:54 EST
From:         PERICLES@TEMPLEVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Situationism
              13 Dec 1992 03:50:08 GMT from <vancleef@NETCOM.COM>

There was a nice show of the situationists in Boston--at the Institute
for Contemporary Art or some such--in December 1989, as I recall.  I
think they had a catalogue.

Dan Tompkins
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: Re: The Spanish/American War
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:44:47 GMT

A322000 <A322@NMUMUS.BITNET> writes:
>Why hasn't the U.S. gotten involved with other countries with similar
>food problems in the past?  Why not our own country, should't we use
>theMarines to build housing for the poor of L.A. or distribute food to
>the hungry in New Yorkd?

Dear Mr. A322000,

You have obviously mistaken this list for one which is grounded in
reality!  Please check your call and try again.


-- 
--- bob pasker
---- rbp@netcom.com
From: DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: The Spanish/American War
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:39:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

By "the teaching of Protestantism, or Roman Catholicism, or
Christianity, by a governmental entity" being a violation of
the establishment clause, I did not mean the academic
teaching of the history/sociology &c. of religion. I believe
that it is appropriate and indeed necessary for students in
K-12 schools to learn about the role of religion in human
history, literature, &c.
Rather, I had in mind the conduct of services of worship in
the schools, organized sectarian prayers in school hours led
by school officials/teachers, and teaching the tenets of a
specific religion or denomination as if those tenets were
true and the tenets of other religions/denominations were
false.
Thus, e.g., it is a good and appropriate thing to teach
the history of the Protestant Reformation. It is a bad
and inappropriate thing to teach that the Prot. Ref.
happened because God was restoring true biblical religion
after the long night of medieval Catholic superstition.
(The assumption being that Protestantism is true and
Catholicism is false.)

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The Spanish/American War
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:07:51 EST

In article <01GS9MKYTB8Y9UMSTJ@VAX1.UMKC.EDU> "Bring me Joan, dipped in Spam" <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET> writes:
>        Was the United States the first country to enshrine the principle
>of separation of church and state? I realize said principle is not
>enshrined in our constitution, but rather has evolved as a result of
>the legal application of US constitutional principles.
>
>Thomas Beaudoin
>Univ. of Missouri

You realize incorrectly, sir. The First Amendment to the Constitution
(the first section of the Bill of Rights) specifically states that
there shall be no establishment of religion in the government or state.
THIS IS THE LAW. Everything else is, as you point out, interpretation.

As to your real question: I think the US was the first truly secularist
(not actually secular) state, followed by the French First Republic in 
1792.

Chris

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:02:00 EST
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

On Sun, 13 Dec 1992 12:28:32 -0600 "Bring me Joan, dipped in Spam"
<TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET> said:

>         Was the United States the first country to enshrine the principle
> of separation of church and state? I realize said principle is not
> enshrined in our constitution, but rather has evolved as a result of
> the legal application of US constitutional principles.

How do you reckon that? Amendment I forbids the establishment
of religion. That is enshrined as one can get. To establish
a church is to unite church and state. To disestablish is to
separate church and state, as happened in Ireland in 1869
and in Wales in 1912.

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:04:00 EST
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:00:00 CST RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
said:

> Instability and political upheaval in Central America/ Caribbean
> also bothered the US a great deal.  In recent years historians
> have read this as an excessive conservatism that sought to
> protect "capital" against desirable popular rebellions.  This
> reading has been set back by Somalia and Bosnia: "law and order"
> may not be such an evil matter.

It is not clear to me how events in Somalia and Bosnia
in 1992 can be used to justify US government policy in
1898 or 1915, or to question interpretations of that
policy. It is plausible to imagine that the United States
may have intervened in Cuba or the Philippines for
one set of reasons in 1898, and intervened in Somalia
almost a century later for another set of reasons.

> --the US fears were well grounded, as evidenced by the horrors
> of the Mexican civil war that broke out 13 years later.

Yet the United States did not intervene in Mexico to quell the
horrors of the Mexican Revolution. We did so to punish Huerta
for overthrowing Madero and to punish Villa for destroying
U.S. property.

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:00:09 -0500
From:         Carolyn Schriber <SCHRIBER@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      RAPE

Last week, someone whose name I have now lost posted a query about souurces
on rape in historical perspective.  Would that person please contact Sharon
Block, who is writing her dissertation on rape in the 18-19th centuries--
e-mail address sbblock@phoenix.Princeton.EDU?  Thanks.
Carolyn Schriber
Rhodes College
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: Does knowing history make any difference in policy?
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 01:53:05 EST

In article <1992Dec18.135121.2895@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> akerr@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Austin Kerr) writes:
>Surely some of the persons on this list who are not U.S. citizens, or who are 
>expert in the history of public policy in other nations, might have interesting
>observations about the role, if any, that a scholarly understanding of history 
>has played in the shaping of current policies.
>
>Austin Kerr
>Ohio State University
>kerr.6@osu.edu

Certainly. Among the greatest US Presidents was Woodrow Wilson, by profession
a university history professor. At a time when the political trend, before 
and after his terms, was to cower and keep America is isolation from the
events in the world, Wilson proposed his plan for the League of Nations and
the policy of national self-determination. I like to thing (perhaps it's
just because I like the idea of an historian as President) that his
knowledge of European history helped shape his view on ending conflicts
there.

Chris

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 12:28:32 -0600
From:         "Bring me Joan, dipped in Spam" <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

        Was the United States the first country to enshrine the principle
of separation of church and state? I realize said principle is not
enshrined in our constitution, but rather has evolved as a result of
the legal application of US constitutional principles.

Thomas Beaudoin
Univ. of Missouri
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:17:49 EST
From:         Andrew Rowden x2252 <arowden@AUSTIN.ONU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: H-Net guide to lists; additions, comments, drops??
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
              17, 92 3:48 pm

Mr. Welling,

I wouldn't know about re-animation regarding the Early Modern Europe list.
I don't subscribe to it - it was just an idea from a list of lists that I saw.
Just thought it would be of some use.

Regarding rebooting the universe - well - it wouldn't hurt.

Andrew Rowden
ONU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: History@IRLEARN.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"History@Irlearn"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:06:00 GMT
From:         ARHN6001@IRUCCVAX.UCC.IE
Subject:      Kennedy Memorial in Eyre Square, Galway

Glenn,

        I was once at a fascinating talk by someone, I can't recall who,
who spoke about using statues and such as evidence. If you look
carefully at the context and menaing of the Kennedy Memorial in Eyre
Square and the Mural in UCG, you would find very little contradiction.
Notwithstanding reality, which may well be different, People in Ireland
saw Kennedy as a saint, and his Presidancy, and visit to Ireland, coincided
with the Lemass years here, when it looked as if the future, both at home
and internationally, was rosy. The "Anti-American Imperialsim" mural in
the University College in Galway is the flip side of that -- disappointement
with reality. Remember that almost 30 years seperate the two pieces of
public art.

Mike Cosgrave
U.College Cork.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:37:15 ECT
From:         HARRIS <BB05196@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

I have noted many interesting observations concerning the origins of the
"Spanish-American" War.  I am especially encouraged by the fact that noone has
thought to ask if any of the participants were either left-handed or dyslestic.
   But one thing I have not heard mentioned is the issue of social-darwinism.
In class I depict this entire period of American History as being colored by
the "progressive" agenda of the day.  What Mr. Lenny takes as altruism can,
and I think should be, taken as an example of the urge to raise the noble
savage from his (sexist pronoun deliberate) lower estate.  Any grassroots
support for the atrocity of 1898 was certainly predicated on the ideal that
"we" had the ideal society, and that it was "our" duty to export that social
ideal to the rest of the world.
   For a Vietnam corrollary to the "City on the Hill" ideal, please see Baritz,
_Backfire_ -- a book I use in class and which I recommend to every US History
teacher.  Ciao
Harris, Binghamton University
BB05916@BINGVMB.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@psuvm"
X-VMS-Cc: CAMPBELLD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:40:00 CST
From:         RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
Subject:      McKinley's methodology in 1899 (keeping Philippines)

    Some final comments, and I'll let the list turn to something
    else. (Hey, let's skip the 1st Amendment stuff if nobody knows
    much about it.)
    McKinley did tell some ministers that he prayed for guidance and
    "one night late it came to me." (He did not say God told him).
    --he also studied reports from Army, Navy (esp Captain Mahan),
    State Department.  Military was urgent regarding US need for
    coaling and cable stations in Pacific.  Britain, Japan, Germany
    already had them. Without stations, US fleet would be helpless.
         Most important, he gave 57 speeches & tested audience
    reaction (the way politicians do), and decided that he finally
    understood the best intersection of national (military/
    diplomatic) interests, public opinion, and humanitarian empathy
    with plight of Filipinos.
         It seems very unlikely to me that business/ economic
    influences mattered much.  Wisconsin school didn't quite make
    that up, but they multiplied it by 10x, and reduced national
    interest by 10x. They completely ignore McKinley's brilliant
    career from Congress to White House was based on promising
    growth of home markets (cities) was more important that overseas
    trade.  Wisconsin historians always quote McKinley's losing
    opponents instead of him! Humanitarianism they reduced by 100%
    by laughing at McKinley's talk with God. LaFeber, for example,
    in his catalog of reasons leaves zero space for humanitarian
    interest in the plight of what Americans saw as the
    poor/uncivilized/backward/ helpless Filipinos. Public opinion
    they reduced 99% by saying it was artificially created by
    Hearst/ Pulitzer. (au contraire: Hearst, Pulitzer heard the same
    public opinion that McKinley did and catered to it, thereby
    selling newspapers. 1992: a network that ignored the Somalia
    story and instead played up (say) business in Russia would get
    turned off.)
    Richard Jensen      campbelld@apsu
From: DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Establishment Clause (Was: Span/Am War)
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:35:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:45:19 GMT Robert E George
<regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU> said:

>  How should the *effects* of e.g. the Protestant Reformation, or
> the rise of Islam, or the Evangelical movement in 19th century Britain
> be presented?  Good and bad things could be said of each of the three.
> I think here is where the issue really lies.

With respect to the establishment of religion, the
issue is not saying "good" or "bad" things about
the Prot. Ref., but using the schools, or other
organs of the state, to propagate the tenets of
a specific faith. So it is appropriate to teach
what Islam believes, but inappropriate to teach
that those beliefs are true or false. (Ditto for
Roman Catholicism, or Buddhism, or the Mysteries
of Isis.)

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@psuvm.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@psuvm.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:43:03 -0600
From:         Medusa Oblon Got a Perm <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      comparative history
Comments: To: history@psuvm.bitnet

        I am looking for texts on comparative history of the
Americas.  Any ideas, leads, suggestions, would be appreciated. I am
trying to put together a bibliography for teachers in my dept.

Thomas Beaudoin
Int'l Baccalaureate Program
Lee's Summit, MO

TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU