From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)
Subject: Re: Vader's weakened character
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:14:21 GMT

ST201714@brownvm.brown.edu writes:

>All of this debate concerning Vader's death and how it was linked to the death
>of the Emperor and his power of the Dark Side of teh Force, intrigued something
> I've always wanted to discuss with people:  DOes anyone else notice how
> Vader's character "weakens" as the movies progress?  I mean, in SW...he was
>presented as being VERY powerful, and undefeatable, to a point.  Then in TESB,
>we are introduced to the EMperor, and suddenly we see Vader as weak, and
>submissive, and he is even wounded in a duel with Luke.  Then in ROTJ, Vader is
> totally restricted.  Everything done, is carried out on the Emperor's orders,
>and Vader, to me, comes off as a lackey (sp.?).  Here Luke defeats him, and he
>dies. It was just disappointing to watch probably the best villain created
>weaken and die.  It wasn't even an admirable death...the Emperor would have
>died in the explosion of the DS (Luke would have lasted long enough to divert
>the Emperor's concentration).  Any comments?

Vader's character certainly changes over the course of the films; whether
it "weakens" or not is up to the individual.  Personally, I saw Vader as
being at his most evil in ESB, simply because he opposes the heroes 
(particularly Luke) in a more personal way.  In ANH, he mostly hangs
around the Death Star and gives orders and blows up planets--menacing,
but also distant.  He doesn't appear to view Han and the rest as anything
more than anonymous and irritating Rebel pests.

But then, in ESB, Vader gets personal--and a lot more scary.  He's got
an entire fleet (and several bounty hunters) looking exculsively for
Luke and his pals.  He's not interested in merely killing Luke and Han--
he wants to corrupt Luke to the Dark Side and deliver Han to Jabba...
fates worse than death.  And lest it appear that Vader comes across as
submissive to the Emperor, we learn from his dialogue with Luke that he
hopes one day to overthrow his former master and sieze the Empire for
himself (and his beloved son, natch).  The revelation that Vader is
Luke's dad is just the icing on the cake.  The ESB Vader isn't just
Rebel-hunting this time; he's trying to ruin the heroes' lives but good.
It's in-your-face villainy, and IMHO it's Vader at his best.

In ROTJ, Vader as the villain softens a bit and reveals some chinks in
his psychological armor; this is necessary so that his change in
allegiance makes sense.  Moreover, the occasional revalation of conflict
in Vader's mind through his dialogue lets the reader know that there *is*
some chance that he can be swayed from the Dark Side, and that Luke isn't
just wasting his time trying to get his father to turn.

I liked the bad-guy Vader a lot (who didn't?), but I liked him even more
after he redeemed himself.  Vader made a great villain, but having him
stay that way up to the very end would have gotten dull, IMHO.  Without
his weakness for his son and his internal conflict, we'd have been missing
that insight into Vader's inner workings that kept him from being just a
stereotypical (though menacing and well-played) villain.  Vader's change
in allegiance may have meant that he weakened as a bad guy, but I feel
that at the same time it strengthened him as a character in general.


                              --Steve Stelter
                                sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA