HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:03:49 PST
Reply-To:     Tom Lincoln <lincoln@IRIS.RAND.ORG>
From:         Tom Lincoln <lincoln@IRIS.RAND.ORG>
Subject:      Any Civil War Navy experts??
Comments: To: Roots-L@vm1.nodak.edu

Captain Franklin Green Rogers Lennan was a sea captain from (probably)
Georgetown ME and later Weston MA. He was born 1837 in ME; died after
1910.

His son's obituary says that he was a " naval captain in the civil war
and most of his other male forebears were sea captains"...

He is not listed in Powell's Civil War Officers of the Army and Navy
according to the Peabody Museum, and I have not found a listing for
a pension in the Civil War Pension Index.

I note that there is a Powell for regular navy and volunteer, and I
suppose that Peabody looked at both...

Were there other forms of (?militia) service that he might have served
in? Other information about him has been correct, so this looks
worht following up on...

Tom
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:11:32 EST
Reply-To:     George Waller <HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET>
From:         George Waller <HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Parents, Spouses, Children (was: Re: PAF tricks)
              20 Dec 1992 17:03:57 GMT from <ttw@CBNEWSL.CB.ATT. COM>

On Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:03:57 GMT thomas.t.wetmore..iv said:
>As a provider and long time user of genealogical software, here are
>some comments on what I think the proper approach to relationships in
>genealogical systems should be.  Let me warn you, in case my usual
>critics don't, that I am an arrogant, crusty old fart, and these
>opinions should be treated as strictly personal.
>
>1. The biological, genetic relationship of parent to child is the
>preeminent relationship in genealogical research.
>

     (much deleted)

That's my *personal* preference also... especially for historical
research. However, I recently, for the first time, produced a few
"modern" day genealogies for relatives and researchers. I was
uncomfortable with the software's inability to deal easily
with the social realities of families nowadays.

As genealogical software matures, we should be able to better
specify relationships between individuals and produce reports
accordingly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cousin George Waller, UConn, HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET   --> Happy Hunting!
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:59:45 -0400
Reply-To:     LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
From:         LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
Subject:      Italian Records

Please, I need help in locating records from Ferrazzano,Italy. I beleive
this town is about 20 miles from Rome-but this may be totally inaccuarte.
Can anyone assist me in getting started on retrievivng records from
Italy? I will return the favor here in the U.S. John Lombardo
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 11:31:00 EST
Reply-To:     JMFREED@CC.OWU.EDU
From:         JMFREED@CC.OWU.EDU
Subject:      Melvyl value
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@vm1.NoDak.edu

Steiner@muppet.Dnet.Ge.Com has indicated a frustration with Melvyl; i.e.
if not a CA resident nor not having Internet, the sharing of Melvyl
resources seemed like a "taunt".  Quite the contrary, the sharing of
Melvyl resources has been a tremendous help to many of us on Roots-L,
whether or not we are CA residents or have internet.  Tom Lincoln,
in particular, and others, have been very thoughtful is sharing what
Melvyl resources state is published information about particular
family names.  The netters who asked the original questions then
can contact their own local libraries with  the information that
such and such book by ABC author IS available and MAY be available
from interlibrary loan.  The local library then can check their
sources and often find the book available from a closer source.
SO,  THANKS Tom and others who post results from Melvyl sources.  If
you do NOT have telnet available, please post your specific family
names that have been a problem and perhaps Tom Lincoln or others who
know how to use Melvyl will provide just the references you need.
--Jim Freed, Delaware, OH-- JMFREED@cc.owu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Library bashing??
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:25:42 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <Pine.3.05.9212211344.A25972-d100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu> Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU> writes:
>Well, thought I would get into this fray since SEVERAL of the messages on
>the net this morning were bashing libraries.  Instead of off the hand
>bashing, how about asking some of us librarians online why things are the
>way they are and if and how they could be changed.  Here are a few
>(I promise "a few") clarifications.
Excellent material deleted....
>
>Frieda Davison

I think one of the things behind user frustration is their knowledge of
what is out there. ILL has not been ready for the flood of requests that
are generated by the likes of Medline in the hands of end users, Melvyl,
and FirstSearch. Many of us access INTERNET and telnet and ftp at no
personal charge to us... but this too, is not a free good.

The information revolution, in which all of us are participating is
going to turn over many previous procedures. How will libraries serve
these new and broader demands? How will these institutions change?

Frieda is right.

If you want to see change.. roll up your sleeves.

Tom

I am certainly sorry that FirstSearch shut down its introductory offer
before the new year... but it would have to come to an end unless
deep issues in library funding are addressed. They ae part of the
intellectual infrastructure, and like roads, not just in the town that they
are in.

"May you live in interesting times...."
From: mfc@medoc.aux.apple.com (Matt Caprile)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: What's MELVYL? [was: wow! (Re: FirstSearch)]
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:48:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: A/UX Group, Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU> writes:
>On Wed, 23 Dec 1992, Matt Caprile wrote:
>> [...]MELVYL is the computerized index of the holdings of the
>> University of Calif, and the Calif State University.
>
>WRONG
>
>California State Library does NOT mean the California State University
>system -- it means the various branches of the state library at Sacramento
>of which Sutro is one.  There is no unifying system for the Cal State
>campuses.

I should know better by now. Sigh. perfect example of "open foot, insert
mouth". [Or, as my father used to say: When you assume, you make an ASS
of U amd ME.]

_matt
--

  --- Matthew Caprile    || Hey, I only speak for myself ! Even I  ---
  ---                    || won't admit to the opinions expressed  ---
  --- caprile@apple.com  || here, so don't expect my employer to.  ---
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:07:08 +0200
Reply-To:     Liisa Korhonen <lkorhone@HKKK.FI>
From:         Liisa Korhonen <lkorhone@HKKK.FI>
Subject:      RE: Generations BOOK
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

       I ordered the book Generations, The History of America's
       future 1584 to 2069 , by William Strauss and Neil Howe
       last spring and paid about 110 dollars to get it here
       to Finland.  The cover paper says the price is $ 22.95
       in the USA.
       I found the book very exceptional, not at all what
       I expected, but very interesting.

                                         Liisa Korhonen

                                         The Helsinki School of
                                         Economics and Business Adm.

                                         Finland
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: renek@sci.kun.nl (Rene Klomp)
Subject: looking for EGGERT
Keywords: EGGERT,Illinois,Chicago
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:30:32 GMT

Hello there,

I would like to know everything about the name 'Eggert'
of my brother in law, living in Chicago Ill.
Do you have any information about this name??

Thanks! Rene.
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:20:58 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <9212281444.AA25429@crdgw1.ge.com> STEINER@MUPPET.DNET.GE.COM writes:
>In regards to MELVYL, am I to understand that if you cannot TELNET,
>or do not live in the state of California, MELVYL is worthless as a
>resource?

>Every MELVYL reference here on ROOTS-L seems like a taunt:  I have
>access to these resources and you don't!"  It's frustrating.

It is not a taunt....

It is merely one of the easiest on-line library catalogs to use, and
I demonstrate that from time to time. Many things found there can be
found elsewhere, once one knows they exist.

Being in Los Angeles, and given Sutro's limited ILL, I have almost
no more access to their collection than anyone else, but I have found
at least some things that they have elsewhere. The reference gives a
clue to which historical library to write, etc.

In genealogy, resources are only as worthless as you make them...

 p q
 \|/
 /|\   TOM LINCOLN  lincoln@rand.org
 \|/  "Life is short, art is long, opportunity fugitive,
 /|\   experimenting dangerous, reasoning difficult."

Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: dave_reynoldss@mentorg.com 
Subject: Re: Official Documents
Summary: 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:13:10 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Keywords: 

Oregon issues computer printed abstracts by default; if one specifically
asks for a copy of the original document, they will issue it for the
same fee.  The abstract does not contain the following information:
  - time when born
  - hospital where born
  - attending doctor name & address
  - date received by registrar, registrar's signature
  - address of parents at time of birth
  - age of each parent
  - who signed the birth certificate


Oregon and Nebraska are the only states which I have received
abstracts from.  The other dozen or so states which I have
ordered birth certificates from all have sent copies of the
original document.

(Oregon is a great place to order vital records from -- too
bad none of my ancestors were born here.  Typically, I have
phoned in requests (charged to a credit card), and the documents
are in the mail the same or next day.)


In article <C00yr2.KnI@news.cso.uiuc.edu> wiggins@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Wiggins) writes:
>I should probably know this, but thought I'd ask anyway.  Over the years
>I've requested copies of death certificates and always received a photocopy
>of the original.  However I recently requested a copy of a birth certificate
>from the state of Indiana, and (three months later) received a newly typed,
>notarized version.  While it did confirm the date and place of birth, it didn't
>show the mother's maiden name or any other information that often appears 
>on birth certificates.
>
>Does anyone know if most states will send you a copy of the original if you
>specifically ask for it?  If so, are the charges usually the same as for an
>official version?


-- 
Dave Reynolds                                       hm: (503) 244-4027
dave_reynolds@mentorg.com                           wk: (503) 685-1335

Researching:  Alley, Boatright, Coleman, Gann, Glenn, Harwood, Henry,
  Kienzle, Kneifl, Lemire, Meirose, Parent, Parker, Reynolds, Sisk,
  Schieffer, Whitford
From: jrs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Spencer)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:40:09 GMT
Subject: NEWELL family request
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.roots

Yesterday I received in the mail a book from a distant relative on the NEWELL
family.  This 144 page book is the work of James Newell McClelland and is very
complete.  James, called Jim, went back to original sources and traced his
family the hard way over a period of years.  The only problem with his work is
that his grandfather was a brother of my ggrandfather and it was his
grandfather's line that he traced, not my ggrandfather's.

I am looking for more information about my ggrandfather, his wife(s), and his
children, particularily my grandmother EMMA NEWELL.  What I do know is all the
NEWELLs on this line are decended from Thomas NEWELL b. abt 1610 and Rebeckah
Olmstead.  Thomas NEWELL followed Puritan leader Thomas HOOKER west to
Farmington, CT and remained there all his life. Thomas's son was Ensign Samuel
NEWELL b. 1660 d. 1753, was married to Mary Hart.  Samuel's son was Nathaniel
NEWELL b. 1703 d. 1753, who married Esther Hart (a 3rd cousin).  Nathaniel's
son was Able NEWELL b. 1730 d. 1813, who married Martha Abigail Smith.  Able's
son was Lot NEWELL b. 1772 d. 1837, who married Polly Niles.  Lot's son was
Myron Merle NEWELL b. 1809 d. 1891, who married Lydia Bassett.  Myron's son was
Loyalson M. NEWELL b. 1834 d. 1898 who was my ggrandfather.

Loyalson may have had two wives, but the only one I know about is Maria Pierce
b. 1828 d. 1879.  This may have been his first wife.  My grandmother by
Loyalson and ? was Emma.  I don't know about any other brothers of sisters of
Emma, but I have the complete tree of her decendants.

I hope someone can help me with details.  I have a lot of information on NEWELLs
that I could exchange.

Thanks,


John R. Spencer  (jrs@fc.HP.COM, (303) 229-3271)

Researching SPENCER, NEWELL, AUSTIN, CARVER, RUSSELL.
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:57:41 CST
Reply-To:     JMILLER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
From:         JMILLER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
Subject:      Season's Greetings
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Nollaigh Maith Duit!

Merry Christmas everyone!

Jean Miller

jmiller@prime.mhsl.uab.edu
From: okner@socrates.umd.edu (Benjamin Okner)
Subject: Looking for Odessa (Ukraine) info
Summary: Trying to determine whether relatives are still living in Odessa
Keywords: Odessa, Ukraine, "propiska list"
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:08:47 GMT

My grandfather lived in Odessa in the late 19th century and my father and four
aunts and uncles were born there.  I have recently discovered "Okner"
relatives still living in other parts of Ukraine and think there is a good
possibility that there are still Okners living in Odessa.  I do not know
if the net extends that far, but wonder if anyone knows whether there is a
fairly up-to-date Odessa telephone directory.  I understand that there are
also "propiska lists" linking people and their residence that might be
available.  If anyone has access to these sources, or has any other
suggestion re getting info, I would be most grateful.  Dosvedanya!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:15:25 MST
Reply-To:     MELISSA PENDLETON <DUSPENDL@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         MELISSA PENDLETON <DUSPENDL@IDBSU.BITNET>

set roots-l nomail
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: non-traditional relationships (was: PAF tricks)
Reply-To: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:00:18 GMT

In article <ROOTS-L%92121812115728@VM1.NODAK.EDU> George Waller <HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET> writes:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:54:01 GMT you said:
>>HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET (George Waller) writes:
>>
>>
>>>The way to get around it is to "lie" to the program, e.g. enter a MALE
>>>in a FEMALE record. My guess is that most genealogical software could be
>>>revised (by the programmers) so that couples could be same sex.
>>
>>At that point you wouldn't want to call it genealogy anymore, right? maybe
>>name tracing or something like that?

>Genealogical software is in its infancy now. Eventually, I would
>imagine that we would be able to indicate relationships beyond
>genetic, legal marriages, adoption (to name the obvious). There
>are a lot of relationships which are worth recording... people
>who "live together," same-sex relationships, surrogate mothers,
>artificial semination, foster parents, "raised by," "cloned from"
>(oops! Guess I need some lunch).

I don't know that anyone has made use of the information, but the
GEDCOM 5.0 standard defines an "associated" linkage that shows generic
relationships between a person/family and another person/family.

This could be easily used to show homosexual bondings, lovers, best
friends, neighbors, master/apprentice, etc.

I do agree with some (not explicitly stated yet) that it is unfair to
say that a gay couple together for decades is not a family, but your
father's 2nd marriage with both in their 70's (i.e. non-reproductive
grouping) IS a family.


I concur with whoever recommended doing what you want, but making it
clear what you've done when you let your material out to others.

I'd also like to thank Tom Wetmore for stating that he is a crotchety
old fart at the top of the post.  It is something that I should do
more often ;^).

-- 
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 08:19:02 EST
Reply-To:     Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
From:         Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
Subject:      Bastardy Rolls
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU

I stumbled across a book in the library yesterday that had some very
interesting possibilities.  The book was titled:" The Bastardy Rolls of
North Carolina".

Being very curious (and what genealogy researcher isn't?), I looked at the
index, and, sure enough, there were several names that looked familiar.

According to the introduction, unmarried mothers were brought up before the
local magistrate, and asked who the father was.  If they revealed the name,
then the father was forced to post a "bastard bond", to insure that the
expenses of caring for the child was not the responsibility of the state.

If the mother refused to reveal the father, then her family had to post the
bond.

Each entry had several columns:  Mother, Year, and several columns to
report who posted the bond.  Quite often, there were more than one person
who posted the bond.  In a few cases, the person posting the bond was female.

My next step:  To look these names up in my index, and check dates!  (Sure
would like to see where the child went!)

                                        Brian Abernathy
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:25:08 CST
Reply-To:     Ed Mertes <mertes@STL-07SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
From:         Ed Mertes <mertes@STL-07SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Lost family member
Comments: To: roots-l@VM1.NODAK.EDU

Debbie,
I sent you two messages by E-mail with GILES information.  If you
don't receive them in a couple of days please let me know and
I will post it to the net.

Ed




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Mertes    7746 Suffolk Ave.  St. Louis, MO  63119    (314) 647-8847
mertes@stl-07sima.army.mil
mertes%st-louis-emh2.army.mil@vm1.nodak.edu
bh736@cleveland.freenet.edu
usr9223a@cbos.us.edu

Researching: MERTES DREILING RAWE STUMP/STUMPS/STUMPF JACCOD GIRARD GRAF
             DEPAUL/DIPAULO REINACHER PLOESSER/PLAZIER/PLACIER CANTER
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:19:16 -0600
Reply-To:     Debbie Lynn Klein <dklein@TENET.EDU>
From:         Debbie Lynn Klein <dklein@TENET.EDU>
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU

        I am new to computers,genealogy and ROOTS. My husband immigrated
to this country in 1952. He became interested in doing research after a
ski trip to Utah and a visit to the LDS library. We wrote to Germany and
got his birth certificate and those of his mother and father. His father
was Czech and we have received quite a bit of info from the Czech
government but we would now like to know about his mother's family.  We
have the names on her birth certificate but now what do we do? We would
also like to know if she had any brothers or sisters? Any suggestions?
We are planning a trip to Germany in the spring (the first in 20 years for
my husband) and thought we might find some graves that might help. Is
there any way to find out where someone is buried? Are their cemetaries
usually near their churches in samll towns? Any and all help would be
appreciated. debbie
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:01:37 -0400
Reply-To:     LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
From:         LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
Subject:      Europe

Can anyone guide me as to how I can access records in Italy relating to
my family, via computer? Is this possible? Thanks for input. John
Lombardo
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: IGI & Fred
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:21:07 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

REEDL%EMIS2.decnet@GW1.HANSCOM.AF.MIL (EMIS2::REEDL) writes:

>In the case of the specific record of the marriage of
>Carl Leopold Haemmerer to Sophia Franke in 1874 at Sankt Marien
>Roemische-Katholische, Ahaus, Westfalen, Prussia

>the record was extracted from the original church records available on
>microfilm #858919 which can be obtained for review from you local Family
>History Center.  The batch number M995203 shows that it was an extraction f-
>rom  church records, not a submission by some interested person.  IN this
>case you can look at the microfilm or write the church (it will be the same
>record).

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! 
Or worse.

First thing next week I'm off to the center to check on this. Was I that blind 
that I did not see directions to push enter for sources? Damn! 

Thank you very much Larry. Damn, I even asked the guy there if that was all 
there was about that marriage. He said nothing about sources which is exactly 
what I was looking for. But how could I have been so stupid? The mysteries of 
computers have no bounds.



>The information :  Sealed to Spouse  11 Jun 1980 OK is of use to members of
>the LDS church (specifics of which have been previously discussed on this
>list so I will forebear) and has no other significance in this case.

In this case I can then assume that the LDS simply and somehow got a hold of 
the records of this church and transcribed them after copying the sources to 
microfilm. I've found no other Catholic churches in the area who permitted 
this. I wonder what makes this place different. Ahaus must be in the Muenster 
Diocese and those churchbook archives are available only in original form and 
only right there in Muenster. They do not look up or copy anything for you. 
They did give me the names of two for pay researchers who will do the work.


>Your FHC should have a listing of number and letter prefixes to IGI entry
>batch numbers which explains how each record was obtained (can't remember if
>it's on the CD and wouuld have to go off-line to check, but I expect it is).

>Hope this helps.

It sure does.
fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
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