HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmuth@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (John Muth)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Foreign (was Re: Before Buying Japanese).
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:15:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1993Jan19.073621.23889@informix.com> aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) writes:
>In article <1993Jan13.012156.27232@sco.com> garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:
>>ship).  That's how it worked and will always work! Remember, when japanese
>>cars first came out, they were considered cheap, ugly, and a to have one
>>(just like Hyundai's 8-)).  However, people were so sick of the big 3
>>wringing money from their pockets that they jumped shipped.  Now, it's all a
>
>No, for the most part they jumped ship as a result of the gas "shortages" and
>gas price increases of the 1970s -- the Japanese cars of the time (plus a few
>other imports such as VWs) had substantially better gas mileage than domestics.

They jumped ship for a variety of reasons. My father, for example, decided in
'74 to get a car with better milage than the '70 Oldmobile '98 with the
454 V8 he was driving (For those of you to young to remember, an M-1 
tank weighs less and gets better milage than a '70 Olds 98 with the 454 V8.
The back seat was big enough for an orgy, but that's another
story). GM and Ford had recently introduced small, fuel effiecient cars
called the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto. He replaced the Olds with a 
Chevy Vega. That Vega was undoubtedly the biggest pile of shit I've ever 
driven. The transmission died at 1200 miles. After about 6 months my 
brother and I just called it "Smoky the Car" because of large amount of 
smoke that blew out of the tailpipe under any conditions that resembled 
acceleration. 0-60 times where measured in weeks.  It was the last American 
car my father ever bought.

American manufacturers had high milage cars on the market when the gas 
crisis hit, they just weren't very good cars.

John Muth
From: vonwaadn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Integra door glass window seal problems
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:03:51 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I have a '91 Integra LS, and am having problems with the door glass
window seal.  Seems every 30K miles or so the windows need to be adjusted
to seal tighter.  If not done, the wind noise is extremely loud above
60mph.  When raining or snowing and the door is opened, water runs down
the inside of the glass.

Have other Integra owners experienced this problem?

Any ideas on a solution?  Both local dealers are perplexed.  A letter
to Acura provided a 'thanks but you're out of warranty' response.

Thanks.

Mark
vonwaadn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu	vonwaadn@ukanvax.bitnet
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why 2 keys?
Date: 22 Jan 93 06:53:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan12.022636.44770@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:

[oops, lost the attribution for this second article]

>>GM continues to make every vehicle with 2 keys except the 
>>SATURN.  Reasons given included logistic problems in coordinating
>>the assembly of the cars doors with that of the steering column
>>considering that all of GM's steering columns for all of its
>
>Now that is truly pathetic!
>
>Next they'll be saying that you have to have a different key for the
>left and right doors on the grounds that they can't be bothered
>matching them up.

The reason (actually, more of a side-effect than a reason) is that when
a GM car's overly-easy-to-break-and-steal steering column gets cracked
by a thief, the dealer/mechanic just throws in a new column, and gives
the owner a new ignition key... thus saving labor of changing the 
tumblers in the lock.

Just another viewpoint...
Den
-- 
==========================================================================
  Dennis Lippert   -   macman+@pitt.edu    or    macman@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Sutherland Hall Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
                             "Just the Macs, Man"
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke)
Subject: Re: SHO Problems
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:05:01 GMT


In article <16610@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes...
>On Friday, Michael Schwartz suggested that I might fix my ailing
>tachometer by accelerating to 6500 rpm (he has experienced the
>same problem as I).  I went out and managed to find a road on which
>the SHO could reach 6500 rpm (not so easy in the bay area), and 
>what do you know?,  at 6500 RPM (95 mph) the tachometer suddenly sprang
>into action!  It worked!  Thank you Michael!  

My speedo occasionally gets stuck at 68.5 mph.  A brisk run towards 80 awakes
it.

(BTW), why didn't you use 1st gear and ~40mph to unstuck the tach?

Vikas Sontakke		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA.
Internet:		sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com
    uucp:		{decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!helix.enet!sontakke
			sontakke%helix.enet@decwrl.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:46:04 GMT


In article <lmbgg0INNou5@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
|> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
|> >
|> >Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
|> >car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
|> >French car, I think a Renault 6.  Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)
|> 
|> French cars have a totally different aesthetic, I don't think it's fair
|> to compare them if you don't speak fluent French and enjoy dry red wine.
|> Also, the 2CV is a Renault, not a Citroen.

Perhaps, I don't speak french ( I quite like the wine though :-) but I
think CX's are fantastic, especially the CX 25 Gti Turbo 2. The exterior
is perfect, 4 doors, one of the best designed dasboards ever, hydraulic
suspension etc. etc. The estate is still quite a popular car due to it's
huge passenger capacity. You have to admit the Dyane is ugly though!


|> Why has nobody mentioned what, to me, seem like the quintessential ugly
|> cars: the AMC Matador, the AMC Gremlin, and the AMC Pacer?

Agreed - perhaps it goes without saying and we're discussing second place :-).

|> The only cars that come close
|> to Matador/Gremlin ugliness are the Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice series.
|> Pound for pound they may be a bargain, but people buy meat-- not cars--
|> by the pound.  I was really surprised when I actually sat down in a Buick
|> Roadmaster.  The back seat is cramped and lots of cargo space has been
|> wasted with stupid side compartments.  Just amazing!

At the Geneva show last year there were quite a few American manufacturers
present, with quite a few cars on display, I was amazed just how little
interior space they had for their size, often less than a class (or more)
smaller european/japanese car.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch




|>
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:08:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1993Jan22.234608.11303@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>> [...consumer reports stats]
>>ratings.  if the sample size is too small, it's not going to be much
>>more reliable than asking one or two people.  the information they
>>give may still be useful, but it will be lacking in authoritativeness.
>>
>How can you say their sample size is too small. Do you know what
>tolerances they are willing to accept?

They *won't* tell. 

If they could prove, one way or the other, that they have a sufficient
sample size (representative of the population) and that the distribution
of cars in the sample is more or less indicative of the population,
they may have a case.

The methods required are very simple; any junior level stat textbook 
has the methods for verifying distributions and checking sample sizes.

But the issue is that it all depends on voluntary returns of questionmarks,
and, that the responses do not take into account at all driving conditions.
Give me any car and I can beat the living crap out of it by driving it in,
say, Chicago, for a year. Take the same car and drive it for a year in
Sarasota, FL. and see if you get different results. Substitute Chicago
for 'aggresive under 25 year old driver', 'mom with 4 kids and stuff on
a small car', 'older driver driving 3 miles a day', etc and you'll see
what I'm talking about.

If you have this information also it is quite easy to see what is going on.
Otherwise it ends up sounding too much like the link between coffee and
heart disease (there isn't one, yet CR style statistics convinced quite
a few people that there is one. A classic stat textbook example).

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: Isuzu Impulse RS
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:02:12 GMT


Does anybody have any experience with an '91 Isuzu Impulse RS
(4wd, turbo, intercooled)?

I am thinking of buying one, and any help/advice would be
greatly appreciated.



Rendell
(rhb@usl.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: detriot/la auto shows
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:34:03 GMT


anyone out there go to either of these?
how about a little report on what was there and what rumors were floating about?
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 1993 09:20:40 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <1k1svlINNd4d@uwm.edu> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:
>>Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
>>In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
>>improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.
>
>--Why doesn't anyone give credit to the '84 Audi 5000 S???  I thought this
>  was the car that started the wave of aerosedans!!!  The Taurus merely
>  copied the Audi's aerodynamic styling!

Well, first of all I always thought the Taurus/Sable twins looked like
high-tech Hudson Hornets, but that's only my opinion.  But as far as the
Taurus/Audi connection goes, I recall reading an interview with one of
the Taurus designers in some auto rag circa '85-'86.  He claimed that
Ford and Audi independently came up with virtually the same styling, and
since the Taurus was still on the drawing board when the Audi 5000 came
out, Ford changed the proposed Taurus styling to avoid too obvious a
resemblence.

Andrew Rogers
From: dwsmall@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Derek 'Enzo' Small)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Is it OK to wash off the engine?
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:01:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: miavx1.1993Jan25.110142.15252
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

>>When is it ok to wash off the engine block?  Are there
>>precautions that should be taken?  Should you wash the
>>engine at all?

Since most of your engine gets pretty wet if you drive in the rain 
anyway there is no reason not to.  Do take a few precautions however;
cover your alternator and ignition and NEVER hose off a hot engine.
Let it cool so you don't warp parts and create leaks.
 
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Derek "Enzo" Small                   [san.dwsmall]@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu    *
*                                      Miami University, Oxford, Ohio 45056   *
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*  " Work hard but know your limitations.  Your dog can do things that would  *
*    break you neck."                                                         *
*				Johnny Carson				      *
*									      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: gill@eagle.sangamon.edu (Warren Gill)
Subject: Re: Goodyear Eagles - GT+4 vs GA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Sangamon State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:26:51 GMT

Chuck Heck (Chuck@clemson.edu) wrote:
> I know what the GT+4s are like.  If I change to GAs, what will I be 
> giving up?  What will I be gaining?  The local Goodyear guy says the GA is 
> quieter, is comparable in cornering and in the rain.  The GT+4 is rated 
> 240/A/A, while the GA is rated 300/A/A.
  -- I recently replaced my GT+4's with GA's.  The GA's are *much* quieter
and smoother riding as well.  Traction and handling are very much the
same on the highway, but not quite as firm on the back roads.  The
difference is hardly noticeable, though, and worth the quiet.
--
      ______                                                               
      )     (   Warren Gill, Management Analyst Programmer II
     /       |  University of Illinois at Chicago
    (        |  Division of Specialized Care for Children
     \_  *   |  Springfield, IL
       \     |  
       /    /   217/793-2350x151  Internet: gill@eagle.sangamon.edu
        \/\/    
          The United States has never lost a war or won a conference.     
           {Will Rogers}                                                  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ejhupper@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Eric Huppertz)
Subject: Windshield wipers go SSSKWOOOOONK!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:06:39 GMT
Organization: Illinois State University

Remember the Flintstone's car horn?  It was a bird and you
squeezed it and it made this horrible honking noise.  That's
a lot like the sound my windshield wipers made from Day 1. 
BOY is that an annoying noise!  I didn't realize quite how
bad it was until I got in a friend's Honda and his wipers
were perfectly silent.

I have a Dodge Daytona.  This noise seems to happen a little 
less with more rain.  But it's still there and it's really
irritating.

I thought Rain-X might help; actually it did, insofar as I
had less call to use the wipers in the first place |^).

Anyone have any suggestions? 

-e.
-- 
-  ()()    ()()  ()  ()()()    Eric J. Huppertz             ejhupper@ilstu.edu
 ()()()  ()         ()         =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
()      ()     ()  ()          "Hey, these aren't my rules.  Come to think of
()()   ()     ()  ()()()        it, I don't HAVE any rules."  -Beetlejuice
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:32:13 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1993Jan21.152619.29534@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> gvanmoor@nrao.edu writes:
>Well, I lived in Germany for seven years and I assure you, it is certainly much more
>than the low teens; the lates figure I have is around 20-25%. But this is beside
>the point anyway, my point was that in a market like Germany the Japanese outsell
>the American made cars by at least a factor 10 (I deliberately give a low estimate), where none of the two receives any preferential treatment.

I posted the figures for 1990, and the figure was 15.something per cent, not
20 - 25%.

As for who outsells who, you have to examine things like dealer networks,
availability of parts, relevant laws which pretty much outlaw big engines
(as in many other parts of Europe), etc etc.

The two are related; if a company has a decent market share then it is
worth for them to go to the trouble of setting up a decent dealer
network and vice versa. A classic example of that was last year when I
visited Greece, and had a few GM brochures with me (annual report
etc). I was discussing with some friends who all drive 2 liter
Japanese trucks (nothing else is available) and they all commented on
how desirable BIG trucks would be for them (construction businesses,
agriculture, livestock, load hauling, towing, etc). Since they'd be
for professional use they wouldn't have to pay steep taxes even for
big cars. Yet US truck makers don't sell there; the volume is too low.
Is it worth setting up a dealer network for such low volumes? 

Both GM and Ford have European operations selling specifically to
(say) Germany; they have pretty good market shares (Go Opel!) and
pretty good models. US Vehicles which sell in Europe would be things
that are not available there, mostly Minivans, 4 wheel Sport-Utility,
and high-end sports cars ('vettes, for example). 

Does Germany have laws penalizing BIG engines (i.e. if I wanted to
import, say, a Seville STS would I be looking into $80K?  You have to
consider that as well.

Finally, look at markets where TRADITIONAL US cars compete against
others; We seem to be doing well in the Middle East, particularily the
oil countries. Different requirements there of course; but we do build
for these requirements (I've seen auto press reports of modifications
required to sell to, say, Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, they're quite
extensive in order to cope with the weather and driving conditions
there), and we do make them and we're pretty successful there.


Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brake Lines on a Ford F-100: I need help!
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:50:10 GMT

In article <13894@limey>, sheriffp@Software.Mitel.COM (Peter Sheriff) writes:
> 
>      The bleed nipples are 3/8" AF not metric. Use a six sided socket to
> start the nipple moving and then put a box wrench on it to do the bleed.

The wrench has 4 1/2 (nearly five sides), I just looked at mine.
I'd like to see you get a six-sided/box wrench over the tubing.


 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
From: warsaw@nlm.nih.gov (Barry A. Warsaw)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Geo Prizm vs Saturn SL1/2
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:22:59 GMT
Reply-To: warsaw@nlm.nih.gov (Barry A. Warsaw)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Century Computing, Inc.


Yup, another one of those indecisive netfolk looking for advice on a
new car. :-) My wife's inherited '82 Cadillac Cimarron has given up
the ghost. No surprise there, huh?  After all, its really just an
early '80's Cavalier with about 40000 extra pounds of dead weight
hidden in the trunk ;-)

So we're looking for ~$12-15k sedan and we've kind of settled on
either the Geo Prizm or Saturn SL1 or SL2.  I've been reading with
interest the net-talk on the Saturns, most of which has been very
good. Haven't seen too much on the Prizm.  Any Prizm owners out there
care to comment?  Our general impressions after A/B'ing them tonight:
seems you get more for your money with the Prizm, interior design was
a little better, the Prizm's lower model (smaller engine) was quieter
than Saturn's SL1 with the smaller engine.  Prizm's small engine was
slightly peppier. Trunk space is very slightly larger, but less
accessible and the power-lock functionality is a benefit.  The
*manual* seat-belts is a plus (I can remember to put my on, thank
you).

The Saturn SL2 on the other hand seemed quieter and tighter than the
SL1 and less expensive Prizm, no surprise. The larger engine didn't
whine much. Geo dealer didn't have a 1.8/manual on the lot for us to
test.  Saturn gives more of a cockpit feel, though had the impression
of being roomier inside.  Construction seems better and the
manufacturer really seems to stand by their product. Doing business
with the Saturn dealer will probably be easier than the Chevy/Geo. I
own a Chevy now ('89 Astro) and have been fairly disappointed with
Chevy dealers in general.  Believe it or not, though, you can't get an
SL1 or 2 in black!  SL2 in blue-black is as close as it comes.

Its hard to compare apples to apples though because of the different
way the cars are marketed. Both have driver airbags (dual airbags not
available on either car), ABS optional.  A comparable Prizm will
probably cost less up front, but I think the Saturn will retain its
value. My gut says the Saturn will be more reliable in the long run
and retain its value better. My gut's been wrong before though ;-).

So my general plea: has anybody else come down to the same two cars,
and if so, which way did you go and why?  Any other cars in the same
class/price range we should take a second look at?  All information is
greatly appreciated!

-Barry
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan in 'Basic Instinct'
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:05:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.005107.6498@cypress.com> ssr@cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA) writes:
>In article <1jjl26INN5jh@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:
>>grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti) writes:
>>
>>>Not to mention the old James Bond movie (thunderball?) that featured
>>>the amphibious Esprit. I think it was even sumbersible!
>>
>>The amphibious Esprit appeared in two Roger Moore Bond films of the late
>>70s I think. I don't remember the titles. The Lotus was blown
>>up in the first 10 minutes of the second one. Another Moore film has him
>>driving a red Lotus at a ski resort. Does anyone know these titles?
>>
>
>The one at the ski resort was also white - the movie was FOR YOUR EYES ONLY.
>This was the one that was blown up.
>
>Thunderball had the amphibious esprit in it... it was a car/sub/hovercraft in one...
>cool eh ?
>
>-- 
>Bapcha ssr@cypress.com   |  NeXT mail is NOT welcome.
			     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
			     Why not?  :-)
	I think that the first time the amphibious Esprit was used was in
The Spy who Loved Me.  I think the red "Lotus" was actually 007's famous 
Aston Martin DB5.  They were both on display at the DC Auto Show, I got to see
them.



-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: csham@blarney.bellcore.com (Cathleen Shamieh)
Subject: TOYOTA FOR SALE
Organization: Morristown Research and Engineering
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:02:09 GMT

FOR SALE:

1987 Toyota Tercel Deluxe 3-door hatchback

5-speed manual transmission
front-wheel drive (great in the snow)
air conditioning
AM/FM/Cassette
variable-assist power steering
rear defroster
rear windshield wiper
split, folding rear seats (you can fit skis IN the car!)
91,000 miles
red exterior, black interior with "tweedy" upholstered seats

gets approximately 35 miles per gallon

original owner (in New Jersey)
regular oil changes
recently-replaced exhaust system

Price: $2400 (1993 Blue Book value $2775)

Call (201) 326-9462 (no later than 10pm, please!) 
or send email to csham@blarney.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos