HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bennett@adobe.com (Bennett Leeds)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Delta table saw for sale...
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:32:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Oct2.163227.20018
Reply-To: bennett@adobe.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

M21605@mwvm.mitre.org writes
> I can't help but add my two cents here.  Price is only one parameter.
> It is also the last thing to consider.

I disagree. You have to consider your intended use as well as price at
the same time. Practically speaking, unless you have small functional
requirements, a spacious shop, and/or a big budget you will have to
compromise somewhere.


> With a Delta quality is very much dependent on when and where
> it was made.... Likewise, the Tiawanese made Delta tools speak for 
> themselves.

Did you know that Delta's 13" planer, model # 22-661, which sells mail
order discount for about $1100, is made in Taiwan? It's certainly of a
better caliber than Delta's cheap low-end tools. Each tool must be
judged individually on its merits, not solely on date and country of
manufacture.

BTW, I was in Whole Earth Access a couple of weekends ago. On the serial
number plates for the Delta contractor's saw, the cabinet saw, and the
Unisaw on display was: "Made in USA." I would be hesitant to state with 
certainty that the older production example is worth more, or vice-versa.


> So,
> for example, if Mr. Caras's saw is a US made Delta in mint condition from
> 1970, it would be worth more than a new one. 

In 1981, FWW visited the manufacturing sites (still in the US) for Delta/
Rockwell and Powermatic. The Delta/Rockwell rep. admitted that the
quality of their tools of a decade earlier wasn't very good. That would
date them about 1970.


> If you can't afford what you want, save up.  Instant gratification
> will only lead to disillusionment.

That's too hard a line. If you can't afford what you want, rethink *all*
of the considerations: What will you be using the saw for most? When 
will you be doing this work? Can you get something that will satisfy
your needs for 2-5 years, which I can then sell and buy something
better? Can you wait and save up? Can you use another tool for what the
cheaper saws won't do well?

All of these, and more, are questions potential buyers should be asking
themselves. To say that one wants a Unisaw with Paralock fence, but can't
afford it and so should do without a tablesaw for years is nonsense.

All of this is my most humble opinion, of course,

-Bennett Leeds
bennett@adobe.com
"I have a name - not a number!" - The Prisoner 
From: shaw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Shaw Moldauer)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:58:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Thickness planers
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

In rec.woodworking, stuarts@landau.ucdavis.edu (Stuart Staniford-Chen) writes:

> I've greatly appreciated the recent thread about planers, since I am in the
> market for one in the next few months if I can get the cash together.  Now
> I know that the Makita is a better bet than the Delta, amongst the portables
> anyway.
> 
> I'm curious to know though, does anyone have any experience with the Grizzly
> 15" thicknesser ($735 on the inside front cover of the current Fine
> Woodworking)?  What good and bad things have happened?

	I couldn't find a Griz to look at. I bought the TCI (Transpower)
16" planer. It comes with a three horse motor, is fully adjustable,
and a real monster. I've put a lot though this unit and the only thing
I would complain about is that if I plane too wide a board, too
deeply, my dust collection tubing (4") jams.

> 
> Thinking about it, these kinds of discussions must go around and around
> on rec.woodworking over the years.  Probably every likely machine has been
> discussed several times.  Perhaps we should have an anonymous ftp site
> with reviews of machines contributed to the group.  There are too many
> for them all to go in the FAQ.
> 
> Stuart Staniford-Chen
> stuarts@jeeves.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:34:57 EDT
From:         Steven Gomes <KYL125@URIACC.URI.EDU>

Howdy folks,

I'm in the initial stage of designing a log home and I'm interested in reading
 just about anything on the subject that I can get my hands on.  So, if you kno
w of any materials that you think might be helpful I'd appreciate it if you'd d
rop me a line.

Also, any information on designing/building Edwardian/Victorian furniture would
 be welcomed as well.

Thanks,

Steve
From: rdc@world.std.com (Ralph D Clifford)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Dust Collection with Delta's Contractor's Saw
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:15:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: world.BvB4Dv.28B
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


     I am trying to use my shopvac as a dust collector with my new :-) Delta
Contractor's Saw.  Right now, I have the shopvac connected to the bottom of
the saw through a home made plywood & plumbing pipe duct.  Unfortunately, the
Shopvac only seems to collect 10% of the dust, the rest of it ending up
inside the saw (80%) or on the floor (10%).

     If anyone has successfully installed a shopvac on the contractor's saw so
that it collects most/all of the dust, I would appreciate it if you would let
me know how you did it.

     Thanks.

 
-- 
Ralph Clifford
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: developed vs rated hp
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:48:30 GMT

In article <5824@dove.nist.gov> wack@ariel.ncsl.nist.gov (John Wack) writes:

>Forgive me if this has already been discussed to death or is in the FAQ,
>of which I don't have a current copy.  My questions are: what is the
>real meaning behind "developed HP" and, if the meaning is what I think
>it is, should the use of "developed" as opposed to "rated" on a power
>tool's description incline one to be, for lack of a better word, 
>suspicious, like suspicious of its quality?

You are correct. I believe that Bennett Leeds can provide as much detail
on this as you could possibly want (he was very informative in advising
me on my router purchase). The exagerated claims made in this manner by
some companies (notably Sears) may or may not be indicative of the
relative quality of the product, but they are certainly indicative of a
low standard of morality, as far as I'm concerned. I don't buy from such
firms.

Basically, though, you should ignore horsepower. Look at two items. If it
says "motorized", don't buy it. These items have universal motors, which
have more moving parts, produce less power, and are louder than induction
motors. While they're fine for things like jig saws, you don't want them
in something like a table saw or band saw.

Then, when comparing induction motors, look at the amperage draw and
voltage. If the product of the amperage and the voltage of unit A is
higher than that of unit B, unit A produces more power. Again, you must
"compare apples and apples", as the saying goes. You should either ignore
"peak" or "starting" amperage and compare the basic unloaded amperage
draws (which are required by law to be on the data plate of the unit),
compare the peak amperages of the two units.

I have found that the published amperage figures in advertisements and
catalogues are directly comparable from manufacturer to manufacturer.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | He who is not a revolutionary at 16 has no heart.
                    | He who is a revolutionary at 60 has no head.
                    |                          Lord Chesterfield
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: crayfe2@inel.gov (John Metzner)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Gustav Strickley (sp?) Designs
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:02:13 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

This past weekend on NYW Norm whipped up a 'settle' based on a Gustav 
Stickley (sp?) design.  I saw this project discussed a couple weeks ago
on the net (guess we're a little slow up here in Idaho :^)) along with other
projects from Gustav Strickley.  I checked the FAQ's for further info on 
him without any luck.  Are there any books available with his designs?
Any titles or other info would be much appreciated, a post to the net or
e-mail would be great.

John Metzner
Cray Research, Inc.
crayfe2@inel.gov

P.S.  Sorry about the ugly disclaimer below.  It's tacked by the news-
server and beyond my control.   Hit 'n'!!




========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Roberts)
Subject: Re: removing cutters and collets
Reply-To: jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:01:28 GMT

In article <0096156D.D01D5440@BAEPV3.NCSU.EDU>, thomas@BAEPV3.NCSU.EDU writes:
|> Here's a recurring problem I've had many times, and have never really
|> solved:
|> 
|> After using my router, usually for an extended time, I have a very
|> difficult time removing the cutter and collet....

I have the same setup and my bits get stuck as well.  A lot of times
I'm able to whack the bottom nut a couple of times and that loosens things up,
but other times it takes more elbow grease.

==============================================================================
J. Jeff Roberts              jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com             (205) 730-6155
	For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the 
	power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth...    Rom 1:16
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: mark@valjean.radonc.washington.edu (Mark Phillips)
Subject: Re: How do I bend an oak 4x4?
Reply-To: mark@valjean.radonc.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:19:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.195858.6477@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>  
apoyner@as.arizona.edu (Tony Poyner) writes:
> In article <dnsurber.718036807@node_26400> dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov  
(Douglas N. Surber) writes:
> >
> >I want to make two curved 4" diameter beams, 80" long. They will have a
> >smooth circular arc 4" high in the center relative to the ends. If I
> >could remember enough geometry I would tell you what the radius of the
> >bend was. I would like to use white oak. Any suggestions would be
> >welcome.
> >
> I can't imagine trying to bend such a beast.  Why not laminate it?  For
> this sort of radius, half-inch thick oak strips should be relatively
> easy to work with, clamping a few at a time to a form.
> 
I once saw an art exhibit in Chicago featuring a number of Japanese  
artists.  One was a sculptor (name forgotten, sorry) who basically  
sculpted living trees.  One was a massive (at least 18" diameter) tree  
trunk that was bent 270 degrees.  The note on the exhibit said only that  
the artist had grown up with loggers, and that how he got his shapes was a  
secret that he had worked out over the years.  So, sorry I can't help with  
your problem, but rest assured, it can be done given the right help and  
enough time.

Mark Phillips
Dept of Radiation Oncology
University of Washington
mphillips@radonc.washington.edu

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:47:22 EDT
From:         FABY000 <FABY@NMUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Woodpeckers

After reading about the woodpecker problem and the response to use an
owl to keep them away I hope the owl will be tried.  I am uncomfortable
in stiuations where animals, birds etc. are eliminated although I can
understand the concern for damage.  Whenever possible I believe we
should strive to coexist with nature and spare these wild creatures from
being killed.  This is not a criticism aimed at anybody but simply my
belief and philosophy that has developed over the years.  I will not
describe my experiences with squirrels, chipmunks, skunks (ruining my
lawn) and raccoons all of which from time to time I have considered
eliminating from my yard and neighborhood.  Roger Barry
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Review, Plan, and Info archive ready
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:01:02 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <1992Sep30.162700.10056@news.arc.nasa.gov> doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay) writes:
}} 
}} stuarts@landau.ucdavis.edu has suggested a that we have just one place
}} to archive posted machine reviews, something like a FAQ list, but prob
}} much longer. I sure think it is a good idea: I am tired of reposting
}} my reviews of tools over and over. It would be a great line in the FAQ
}} to refer questions about some burfl to one ftp site, perhaps broken
}} into files by tool type. 
}} 
}} But who wants to maintain the site and update the files for each new
}} posting of a tool review? I cannot do it here on a Govt. computer.

I'll volunteer.  I now have an ftp site for the plan archive, if
anyone wants to submit.  Because of local policy restrictions, there
will not be a world-writable ftp directory.  You'll have to submit
plans (and reviews) to me via e-mail.

The Rules:

I.  Plans
  A) plans should be in one of the following forms (I prefer fig, then
     postscript, then gif, but I'll accept any):
     1) PostScript
     2) fig
     3) gif
     4) cad output compatible with most PC CAD programs (Sorry, I don't
	have a PC CAD program, so I don't know what the preferred
	format is. What does AutoCad put out?)
  B) to submit plans for the archive, you must do one of two things:
     1) send mail to sjc@cs.purdue.edu telling me where I can get the
	plan via ftp.  I'll pick it up and install it.
     2) uuencode the plan, and mail it me (sjc@cs.purdue.edu)
  C) the archive will be at ftp.cs.purdue.edu, in the directory
     pub/sjc/woodworking/plans.

II.  Reviews
  A) Reviews should be ASCII text.
  B) to submit reviews, mail them to sjc@cs.purdue.edu.
  C) the archive will be at ftp.cs.purdue.edu, in the directory
     pub/sjc/woodworking/reviews.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.  C'mon people, overwhelm me with
submissions!  I'll gladly take other, "general information",
submissions, such as Bennett's notes on HP, or simple "what kind of
plane should I get first," etc. notes.  I'll also put the FAQ on-line
there.

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
      It's a wise dog that scratches its own fleas. (William Strunk, Jr.)

        "...the probability of a puttering nutcase slaving alone in his
         workshop actually developing fundamentally new technology is
                     practically nil..."  -- John DeArmond
From: coffin@surfin.Eng.Sun.COM (Chip Coffin)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: How do I bend an oak 4x4?
Date: 5 Oct 1992 21:33:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: coffin@surfin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: surfin

> Also, to dry such a beam after steaming would require a very
long time. 

Drying the beam isn't the problem - keeping it wet while it's cooling is.


When I was doing a project at mystic seaport, the small boat shop was building
some "rangely lake" boats.  The stems had a very sharp bend to them and they
were made from 2" by 3" oak.  When the wood was steamed, they called everyone
around to help pull the block and tackle to bend it around the form.  It
actually bent easily.  After the piece was bent around the form, they nailed
some pieces to it to hold the shape, which freed up the form for the next
piece.  then someone sat there with a garden hose spraying the wood until 
it was cool.  

Once it cools down, it dries very quickly - like a matter of days for wood that
size, and they started with green lumber. 

chip

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: bennett@adobe.com(Bennett Leeds)
Subject: Re: Routers for router table : Opinions Wanted
Reply-To: bennett@adobe.com
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:03:49 GMT

Jim Johnson 7-9535 (6518 TS/EN) writes
>       This has been a question of mine for some time as well.  About 3 or 4
>       months ago there was an article on plunge routers in either Fine
>       Homebuilding  or Fine Woodworking. 

Fine Homebuilding. More like 8-10 months ago.

> I was all set to buy an ELU 3338
>       but the article said that undertable adjustments were difficult.

The newer 3338 models do not have a spring loaded plunge lever - older ones 
did. So, the newer ones are better than the older ones for under table use.
The newer ones have a square button in the front which acts as a shaft lock
for changing bits (and for identifying it as the newer one). If you go for
it, definitely get a knob for the threaded rod to adjust the depth.

The Elu is a nice, well-built router. However, the sub-base is very very
thin, so when you attach a homemade sub-base (like a drop-in base for a 
table), you lose the homemade subbase's thickness (usually about 1/4"-3/8")
in the depth of cut. You may end up trying to compensate by not inserting
the bit as deep into the collet - but this is dangerous.

The Elu has an elaborate rack and pinon depth stop mechanism, with a 
sliding scale and a magnifiying, parallax-adjusted cursor. It also has
screw-adjustable stops in its turret. But, you use none of it during 
under table use. I've used the Elu, and I believe the depth-stop stuff
is not that useful even for hand-held work.


>  As I
>       recall my opinion at the time was that the Hitachi MV12.  I don't have
>       one though so I don't really know.

I borrowed a TR-12 model (non-variable speed) for a short while from a 
friend. The collet is a two-piece design, which didn't grip nearly as well
as the Elu's three piece, self-releasing design (some Bosch, Ryobi, and PC
models also have this 3 piece design). Also, the Hitachi's collet was quite
short - only about 5/8" long, compared to the Elu's 1.375" length - this 
also contributes to bit grip ability. A 1/4" collet isn't available for the 
Hitachi, so you have to use a collet adapter for 1/4" bits, which I find to be 
a pain (however, others say it's no problem).

- Bennett Leeds
bennett@adobe.com

"And remember this - there's no more important safety rule than to wear
these: safety glasses."
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:57:33 -0500
From:         Jeff Roberts <JROBERTS@UTDALLAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Miscellaneous Questions...
              2 Oct 1992 11:35:19 -0500 from <davek@INFORMIX.COM>

On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:35:19 -0500 David Kosenko said:
>In article <8090013@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com> rer@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Rob Robason)
>writes:
>>I have a few general questions:
>>
>>1) Norm (NYWS) uses a combo phillips driver/countersink, apparently
>>    slipping the countersink over the hex phillips driver.  This is a
>>    really slick tool that I've looked for in my local stores to no
>>    avail.  Anyone have any ideas about where to get this?
>
They have this tool in the Woodworkers Supply Catalog of Albaquerquee....
Albacookie...Albakirky....Albacurkee.  I give up, its the city in New Mexico
that begins with and "A".  I think their number is in the FAQ.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: davidr@rookie.cadence (Dave Rich; x6337)
Subject: Biscuit Jointers and Random Orbital Sanders
Organization: /home/davidr/.organization
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 15:48:50 GMT

I've been looking at biscuit jointers and random orbital sanders and
have noticed that they are basical the same thing as an angle grinder
with a permanent biscuit jointer or random orbital sander attachment.
Is this true? Has anyone removed the factory installed attachment to
get to the basic angle grinder.

I would like to buy one power tool and one attachment, instead of two
power tools (three, counting the angle grinder)
____________________________________________________________
Dave Rich	tele 1-508-934-0337 email davidr@cadence.com
Cadence Design,	2 Lowell Research Ctr., Lowell MA 01852-4995
____________________________________________________________
--
____________________________________________________________
Dave Rich	tele 1-508-934-0337 email davidr@cadence.com
Cadence Design,	2 Lowell Research Ctr., Lowell MA 01852-4995
____________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky rec.woodworking:6744 misc.consumers.house:13079
From: kevin@msa3b.UUCP (Kevin P. Kleinfelter)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,misc.consumers.house
Subject: Wood Floor Puzzlers
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:04:06 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Dun and Bradstreet Software, Inc., Atlanta, GA

I'm planning to attempt a do-it-myself hardwood floor installation. I'll
be replacing wall-to-wall carpet in my split-level living room.

There are 3 areas where I anticipate difficulties:

   1. I have a stone fireplace hearth which  extends to the subfloor.
      The only thing I can think of here is to use a jigsaw to cut
      the floor to fit as well as possible, and fill the crack with
      mortar to match.

   2. I have stairs which rise to meet the floor. I plan to put a
      wide strip of wood with one edge rounded to form a border and
      provide the overhang for the top step. (Alternatively, I could
      just take the hardwood flooring right up to the edge, and then
      use half-round moulding to form the overhang for the top step.)

   3. I have to meet a linoleum floor at one edge. The hardwood floor
      will be slightly taller than the linoleum.  Should I use
      quarter round to meet the linoleum?  I'm familiar with metal
      strips which one uses to end carpet at linoleum, is there something
      similar for hardwood floors?

What is a DIY guide to hardwood floors? None of my DIY books answer
the above questions.
-- 
Kevin Kleinfelter @ DBS, Inc (404) 239-2347   ...gatech!nanovx!msa3b!kevin
Dun&Bradstreet Software, 3445 Peachtree Rd, NE, Atlanta GA 30326-1276
WARNING: I have been advised that email to kevin@msa3b.UUCP may bounce.
It looks like email will have to go via 'gatech' because that is well-known.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking