From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Solutions to the problem? (was Re: Sgt
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:07:23 GMT

In article <1hrhfvINNpa1@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>In article 1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu () writes:
>>In article <1hlthpINNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>>> In article 10894@colorado.edu, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>
>>>>Not exactly.  This is what the PLO charter says, but the fact is that it
>>>>also says that Jews who returned to their homeland and now live in
>>>>Israel must leave.  And during the Israeli war of Independence, in 1948,
>>>>Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the Palestinian leader, had similarly draconian
>>>>ideas:  he had worked actively with the Nazis during World War II, and
>>>>shared many of their ideas concerning Jews.
> 
>>> Presumably you mean the Palestine National Covenant (1968).  A Palestinian
>>> is defined recursively to be an Arab who lived in Palestine in 1947, or a 
>>> Jew who lived there in 1917, or anyone with a Palestinian father.  That
>>> would rule out the majority of Jews who lived in Palestine in 1947.
>>> However, Zeyd did not mention the PLO.  He is correct about Arab 
>>> proposals from earlier times, but the position hardened gradually
>>> from 1948-9 to 1968.  As to al-Husseini, if you have any knowledge
>>> of what "draconian ideas" he had in 1948, you are yet to prove it.
>
>>	Brendan, you must be aware of al Hussainy's ideas during
>>	the early 40's.  What do you think made him soften his 
>>	attitudes after the war?
>
>Yes, I am well informed of his war-time activities as a propagandist
>and (slightly successful) collaborator with the Nazis.  However, I
>believe Eric is referring to the claim that what he really wanted
>was to physically exterminate the Jews of Palestine.  

Either that or force them out, yes.  

>I think a 
>claim of that magnitude ought to be supported by some sort of direct 
>evidence rather than vague innuendo based on his associations, but 
>that is the only evidence I have seen from any time period.

His collaboration with the Nazis was far more than just "slightly
successful."  He sponsored a coup attempt in Iraq to install a pro-Iraqi
dictatorship.  He raised a battalion of Muslims in Nazi-controlled
Bosnia to fight alongside the SS.  He toured concentration camps and 
expressed approval.  That's pretty hefty evidence.  Especially only 
three years after the shoah.

>It is clear that he saw the Nazis as the best hope for nipping
>the Jewish-state-to-be in the bud.  His ruthlessness and naivety
>both show themselves clearly from that, but a genocidal wish does
>not.  Not everyone who sought to be on the Nazi's good side in
>the event of an Axis victory was party to all the Nazi's actions,
>as the ex-PM of Israel could tell you.

See above.

>As for the 1948 time period, Husseini's part in it has been rather
>overblown.  The fact is, most of the Arabs of Palestine ignored
>his call to arms (except in the direct defence of their own
>villages).  Most of the "irregular" Arab forces in Palestine
>during the 1947-8 war were volunteers from other countries.
>I will also mention the large number of local peace agreements
>signed between neighbouring Arab and Jewish villages.

What matters the most in war, Brendan, is who has the guns.  He had the
guns - and was responsible for the war even if many Palestinians did
ignore his call to arms.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast