HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elamjd@elbert.sandr.com (Dan Elam)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 08:30:24 EST
Organization: Imaging Consultant

> Ok, I'll put on my "silly student" hat now.  How many hours of hood time do
> people typically receive whilst getting their VFR ticket?  For that matter,
> how many hours of spin training do they get?   A friend of mine who I would
> trust with my life in an airplane any day (a 'bunch of hours' center thrust
> twin driver with an IFR rating...) absolutely insists that I get spin recover
> training BEFORE the first solo.  I know several PP-ASELS that went through
> the entire program and have had no practice recovering from spins.
> 
> I agree with you in that a VFR pilot ***with some instruction*** under
> the hood can probably survive a lot longer than 3 minutes,  I wonder
> how many VFR pilots have the necessary instruction?
> 

I pulled out my log book and was a little surprised to find I only had 
about two hours of hood time, even though I had kinda pushed for hood 
time since I knew I would need it for my instrument rating.

I don't really think you need spin training before you solo, but I do 
strongly recommend it before you get your license.  I went to an 
acrobatic instructor and got some spin training in a Pitts.  Besides 
being GREAT fun, it also removes all the mystery of stalls and spins.  
Today I'm happy to place a plane in an intentional spin without fear the 
plane might do something unpredictable.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel)
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Reply-To: km11480@medtronic.COM
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:08:39 GMT

>Did you ever wonder why every water tower has the town name painted
>on the side?  They can pretty helpful in locating your position on
>a chart in an area where all the towns look the same.

I wonder if we could get them to print the names on top?
From: jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Dunkle)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Engine Failure Due to Cold Engine?
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:37:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.kfNfcjW00WBOA28hRm
	<1993Jan26.061032.6856@peck.com>
Organization: Sponsored account, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Ice fog is dangerous.  Very dangerous.  Don't fly in it.  And particularly
>don't take off in it.  You may have de-frosted your aircraft properly on
>the ground, but as soon as you start that takeoff roll, the ice will begin
>to build.  And you may just not clear those trees at the end of the runway.
> 
>						Geoff

When I was a kid..my dad was an FAA Med Examiner...and often got called
to check out local plane wrecks.  One which, thank god, was not fatal,
that I went to with him, was as follows:

Early morning, Cessna 310 (old tuna tank model) departs in low IMC. 
Within 1 mile of the end of the runway they pancaked onto a farmer's
field with a huge load of ice.  When we got there....the ice on the
wings was "very thick".  I often wondered how they picked up so much ice
so fast....maybe this was it.

Jeff Dunkle
From: hurvitz@oscar.UUCP (Dennis Hurvitz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:54:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.160148.8248@infonode.ingr.com>, bishopjl@infonode.ingr.com (John L Bishop) writes:
> In article <1993Jan19.042142.14935@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan18.195355.19928@nntpserver.chevron.com>
> >hdnea@usho88.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
> >> I can never seem to match local landmarks with
> >> features on the map. If I insist on finding myself via 
> >> visual references, I can usually do it in 5-10 minutes.  [...]
> >> Any suggestions for helping me to develop pilotage skills
> >> would be highly appreciated.
> 

this is common. it takes time to develop an eye for the topography. the
best advice i can offer is to keep at it. it will get easier.

one trick i like to do (although it requires attention inside), is to
select a vor perpendicular to my course and dial it in #2 vor, and keep
the needle centered on the from radial. you can look at a glance and see
exactly where you are along your course.

or you can preselect a specific from radial, and when the needle swings
away from the station, to the center, you're there. simple. 

you can set up at a vfr landmark to confirm your eyeballs.

dennis hurvitz
 

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Dunkle)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:30:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.AfNfWf200WBOI28gZ0
	<1993Jan26.045907.6571@peck.com>
Organization: Sponsored account, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Simple Pilot Hint #29:
> 
>    On the east coast, the ocean is generally east.
> 
>    On the west coast, the ocean is generally west.
> 
>You'd be surprised how handy this hint can be.  :-)
> 
>							Geoff

A glance at my watch and then the sun....have "unbefuddled" me more than
once too. 

 Wife still asks when driving "how do you know we're going north-west?"
after I just mentioned the fact,  as if I have homing pidgeon genes or
something.  I just tell her..."its a left brain thing...you wouldn't
understand."

Jeff Dunkle
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: more imc
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:24:49 GMT


In article <1993Jan26.035914.1040@netcom.com>, rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
|>On the other hand, the psychomotor skills won't transfer at 
|>all IMHO.  In other words, now that I'm instrument rated
|>I wouldn't personally bother with an instrument trainer to maintain 
|>proficiency  in IMC any more than I would use regular FlightSim
|>to maintain proficiency with VFR T&Gs in the pattern.

I'm not sure when you say "instrument trainer" whether you're referring
to PC-based or FAA-approved simulators. I'd agree with you on the former,
but would disagree on the latter.

When I started working on my -IA, one of my instructors was always suggesting
time in a good simulator. One day I gave in and scheduled a couple of hours,
and never regretted the decision. In the simulator, I've lost the electrics,
vacuum, engine oil pressure, prop pitch control, an engine (it's a twin
simulator), both engines, and the pitot/static system. I've attempted (with
varying degrees of success) to fix up busted approaches that I never would
have tried in real life. I've shot approaches in winds that would scare the
pants off any sane pilot, and learned to remember to put the gear down.

All this sounds like fun, but you may ask how well it transfers to real
life experiences. I'll tell you. On my second IFR flight, I picked up some
ice. Not much, mind you, but since I was distracted by a problem with the
DME, I'd forgotten to turn on the pitot heat and the pitot tube iced over.
Here I was, in IMC, on my second solo IFR flight, and the airspeed indicator
is headed for the bottom of the green arc while the altimeter is showing
a climb. First instinct was to push the nose over, but the crosscheck I'd
learned in the simulator quickly told me that this was a system failure.
Moments later I figured out what the problem was, fixed it, and avoided
a very bad situation. (Then, of course, got the hell out of the ice.)

No, simulators can not take the place of actual flight. But they can
supplement it by allowing you to be in dangerous situations and work
your way out of them without actually risking your life. 90% of IFR
flight is in VMC, while 99% of my simulator time is in 'IMC', most of
it with my instructor gloating over the next curve he's planning on
pitching at me.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL-IA -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in c
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:10:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

KH> .I am a PPASEL student (approx. 20 hrs).  Because of the lovely weather her
  > .Minnesota, I have not been able to do my first solo X-country yet.  I am j
  > .about to take the written (part 141).  Here goes the unusual part.

KH> .I have already started my IFR ground school (class being taught at the FBO
  > .I have also taken one and will take my second IFR (flying) lesson today 1/
  > .My PPASEL instructor thinks the ground school is no problem.  I havn't ask
  > .his opinion about the flying portion.  As is implied, I am taking the flyi
  > .instruction from another instructor.  To add a little more fun to this
  > .equation, I am taking the PPASEL instruction in a tomahawk, and my first I
  > .lesson was in a warrior II, the second will be in a 150.

No flames from me.  IF you can handle it, more power to you.  I can
think of a couple of practical concerns, but no reason that I can see
that you shouldn't overlap the training.

I started out my primary training in a PA28-140, and went to a 161 and
then an IFR-equipped 181 as fast as possible.  And I told my CFI that I
was going for the Instr. rating as soon as I could, so much of my
training was tailored that way.  I had 4.3 hours of Instr. time when I
took my PP checkride, and regularly did practice instrument approaches
on my student solos.

From a practical perspective, you're still going to have to rack up the
125 PIC hours before you can get your IA rating, so it's going to end up
taking you longer to get the rating.  More $$$, probably.

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:53:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

T> .    When is a power line not a power line ??

T> .    Or more precisely, what is the criteria for a power line being on
 > .    a sectional ??

The inclusion of any particular landmark is somewhat discretionary.  The
cartographer stares at aerial photos and tries to decide what is going
to be a useful landmark.  So, power lines that stand out will usually be
charted.  If there are lots of other landmarks nearby, and multiple
power lines make identification of a specific one ambiguous, then it
might not get charted.  Hazards, such as towers, etc. WILL be charted.

T> .    I seem to find that several major power grids are NOT included on
 > .    our sectionals.  Is there a "minimum" size requirement for including
 > .    such lines ??   Or does tha FAA rely on pilots to report new lines
 > .    they think are significant ??

If something isn't charted that you feel should be, contact NOAA.
There's an info box on the sectional that gives an address.

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                           
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:39:24 EST
From: <RBRCSA@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Searchable Directories of Active Pilots

Is anyone aware of any on-line listing of active or licensed pilots?  Is there
an agency that keeps such a list?  Or better yet a gopher or FTP site?  Thanks.

     .-. -... .-. -.-. ... .-   .- -  .-. --- .... ...- -- .----
                 CRAIG ALLEN  BITNET: RBRCSA@ROHVM1
                   ENTROPY REQUIRES NO MAINTENANCE
                       ..-. -. --- .-. -..
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: elmore@rap.ucar.edu (Kim Elmore)
Subject: Re: the usual meandering thread biz
Organization: NCAR, Research Application Program
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:25:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.182924.17831@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Edward.Hutton) writes:

>	Funny, I have the same thoughts on learning aerobatics.
>I know many pilots don't know how to fly aerobatics, but I still
>have this feeling that it will make me a MUCH better pilot. I
>would like to think that if I roll inverted (wake encounter
>maybe?) my FIRST instinctive response would be to roll up right
>and not split S. I just have this gut level feeling that acro
>training would do me a world of good (its on the to do list :-) ).

	I've had aerobatic training and just love acro flight.  Yes,
I'd like to think I'm a better pilot for it all, but have no objective
way to show it.  And I've thought long and hard about the "what if..."
scenario of being uncontrollably rolled inverted in wake turbulence or
whatever.  While I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind
to continue the roll, I'm not so sure.  Another acro pilot and I
discussed it a bit; we thought about what our first reactions would be
(aileron against the roll) and then wondered at what point we'd give
up and continue the roll.

	We were sure we wouldn't try to split-S out of it, but we each
wondered how long it would take to realize what needed to be done.

	When I was learning to fly, I heard about a legendary guy in
the area, name of Hurley Boeheler, who had a similar event.  He was
taking someone 'round the patch in a PT-22 which, so the story goes,
has a tendency to violently drop a wing if it gets slow and
uncoordinated.  The other guy was flying it and, sure enough, Guest
Pilot allowed it to get too slow on base leg and then let it get
uncoordinated on the turn from base to final.  So goes the story,
Hurley had the presence of mind to continue the rapid, uncontrolled
roll to the left as a snap roll and successfully recover.  I never
asked him about this, so I dunno if it's true or not.  I'm not so sure
I'd have this much on the ball if things got that wormy.  But then he
had zillions of hours.  I had heard about his time and I *did* ask him
about it.  Being young and overly enamoured with such things, I
persisted until he told me. His answer was something a little over
20,000.  He was a DE and, in another foolish moment (I have lots), I
asked one of the GADO (that was back before FSDOs) guys about him.  In
short, I was assured that his quoted time was accurate.

	So maybe after a few more lifetimes in the air, I'll get this
kind of skill to the automatic level!

			Kim

elmore@brightband.rap.ucar.edu


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A. Bishop)
Subject: Re: Book on Pancho Barne
Originator: jabishop@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:42:03 GMT
Organization: New Cate Space Agency, Norman, OK

zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin) writes:

>I'd also be interested in good books describing her life.  (Bob Devereaux:
>which two Earhardt biographies were you reading?)

I'm sorry I don't have the title, but there is at least one bioagraphy out
there.  They had it for sale at the borax museum (yes, there really is one)
in Boron, CA.  In case you're out that way for some unknown reason, Boron is
out near the Phillips Lab portion of Edwards AFB.

--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
jabishop@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu

"Yippee!  That may have been a small one for Neil,
 but it was a big one for me."
                            --Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: prang@plato.ds.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Subject: Painted Names (was Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?)
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:37:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.172540.15098@den.mmc.com> zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin) writes:
>|> In article <C147tL.6Kp@plato.ds.boeing.com> prang@plato.ds.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja) writes:
>|> >Fly Baby Tip #408 for the Really, Really, Lost:  Buzz the first Highway
>|> >Patrol car you see.  They usually have the State name painted on the 
>|> >side :-).
>
>If not on a water tower, many towns have their name painted on the roof
>of a suitably large building. 

Then why do I find so many towns named "GAS-EATS" :-)

                                |
                               _|_
                 	      /(_)\                       
                      -------:==^==:-------      
                           [[|  o  |]]             
                             \_____/__________-----------------
                          _  /     \  _
                         T T/_______\T T      Ron Wanttaja 
			 | |         | |      prang@plato.ds.boeing.com
			 """         """     
Fly Baby repair status:  Fuselage inspected... found small crack
      in upper longeron; may have been pre-existing.  Otherwise,
      fuselage looks fine.  Awaiting wing inspection by A&P.
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:53:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA

[Apologies in advance for the excessive quoting, necessitated by the
extended delay in my response...]

In article <31697@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> khubbard@ems.cdc.com writes:
> I am a PPASEL student (approx. 20 hrs).  Because of the lovely weather here in
> Minnesota, I have not been able to do my first solo X-country yet.  I am just
> about to take the written (part 141).  Here goes the unusual part.
> 
> I have already started my IFR ground school (class being taught at the FBO).
> I have also taken one and will take my second IFR (flying) lesson today 1/19.
> My PPASEL instructor thinks the ground school is no problem.  I havn't asked
> his opinion about the flying portion.  As is implied, I am taking the flying
> instruction from another instructor.  To add a little more fun to this
> equation, I am taking the PPASEL instruction in a tomahawk, and my first IFR
> lesson was in a warrior II, the second will be in a 150.

A positive "vote" for this idea is cast in article
<1993Jan19.192837.10134@pony.Ingres.COM> by kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki),
and a negative "vote" in article <77048@apple.apple.COM> stadler@Apple.COM
(Andy Stadler).  [Both pilots I know very well... :-) ]

In this case, I think I would recommend against doing your instrument
training, either ground or flight, until you finish your private.  Although
it is possible to do a combined private/instrument curriculum, as several
netters have done on an experimental basis at the University of Illinois,
with a conventional syllabus, I think you'll come out ahead by doing them
one at a time.

Learn to fly the airplane by looking out the window.  Then take some
time and _enjoy_ flying the airplane by looking out the window.  Build
some experience -- gain some confidence.

In some ways, I almost regret having gotten my instrument rating so rapidly
after getting the private.  (I was one of the first people to take
advantage of the decrease in the required total time for the instrument
rating.)

Many non-instrument-rated pilots seem to view the instrument rating as a
panacea:  "Gee, if I had my instrument rating, I could go flying right now
and go where I want to go."  No such luck.  You'll find that the instrument
rating does increase your options, and does increase the days on which you
can fly.  But it is by no means a panacea.  Typical light aircraft are not
equipped for much of the weather in which one might wish to fly.  For
example, cold winters have clouds which will turn the typical light single
into a flying ice cube -- and ice cubes don't fly very well.  Midwestern
thunderstorm season sometimes brings embedded thunderstorms, in which
conditions you would be well advised to not fly without a Stormscope and/or
weather radar.

So get some experience, heed Andy's advice, and then go for the
instrument rating.

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: paulc@world.std.com (Paul E Cantrell)
Subject: Re: Engine Failure Due to Cold Engine?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:44:56 GMT

In article <dkkaps5@Unify.Com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
>	I don't **think** this is possible, but is it ever possible to get
>	carburetor ice by APPLYING carb heat when the air's too cold?
>	This would depend on how much heat the carburetor heat supplies,
>	but I'd guess that heating intake air to about freezing (or thawing)
>	would only happen when the OAT is too low to support much of any
>	humidity in the air.


Well, when I was at the Robinson factory CFI course, a guy from Alaska
asked Frank Robinson about that - seems they get something called ice
fog when it's really cold. Frank's from Southern California and couldn't
tell the guy what was the right thing to do in this situation, but the
guy clearly seemed to think that carb heat would make things worse.

I'm just guessing, but maybe if you have ice crystals which would normally
stay suspended in the air and get sucked right into the cylinders, heating
them until they are liquid might allow them to refreeze in places you'd
rather they didn't. Perhaps one of the bush pilots can say for sure...

Paul
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Best Power/Best Economy
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:46:57 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

My Mooney M20J manual (I own the manual....not the plan :-{ ) gives the 
following information relating to 75% power:

		RPM	2400	2600	2700
Fuel Flow Best Econ	10.3	10.5	10.8
          Best Power	12.0	12.3	12.5

I understand how to set up for B.E and B.P using EGT.  My question
is, what's the concept here?  If I am getting the same BHP (150)
for both settings, yet getting a 20% increase in fuel consumption,
what's the gain?  There must be a reason that both figures are
given.  

The SPEED POWER vs ALTITUDE graphs only show one slope for 75% 
power at max weight.  Nothing that I can find shows the benifit
of burning 20% more fuel.  

So what's the underlying thought here?  Under what conditions
would I want to select Best Power and burn 20% more fuel?  And
what do I gain?

Thanks!
	
Ben 
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly.
From: rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:56:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan19.234841.5900@rational.com> gff%Rational.COM (Geoff Fitch) writes:
>Lots of good ideas. First off, it is really great you are interested in
>pilotage. It is generally easy to get by without doing it, which so many crappy
>pilots do. 

Well, since I got a Loran, I seem to have forgotten what pilotage is.
Guess I'll have to brush up on the basics...

   * DF Steers
   * Buzzing Cops (they love it!)
   * Buying sectionals
   * Reading Runways
   * Flying in circles, hoping one town changes into another
   * Being lost
   * Following other planes until they land (hard in a 150)
:-)


Bob Monsen
Orion Network Systems
Berkeley, Ca.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: woof@fc.hp.com (Steve Wolf)
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:32:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.5]

I had a checkout at an Atlanta airport yesterday (LZU, Lawrenceville).
Somehow in my car-entrance to the airport I got flipped around 180
degrees in my head.  We taxied out to runway 7 and took off, and the CFI
told me to fly east.  I was convinced that I was flying west, and asked
him whether he wanted a right turn or a left!

I finally intellectually convinced my head that I was truly flying east,
and the rest of the checkout was uneventful.  This skill (convincing
oneself of something regardless of how it feels) is drilled into us
during instrument training. :-)

To get to the pilotage tip -- it's is much easier if you believe your
compass. :-)

--
Steve Wolf
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP: hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA: woof@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting