From: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Subject: Re: The decade of the all rounder
Reply-To: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Organization: Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:54:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.003126.12461@m.cs.uiuc.edu> bharat@cs.uiuc.edu writes:

>The 1980's were surely the decade of the all-rounder.

	Weren't they also the decade of the fast bowler [choose from
*dozens*!], and the decade of the fielder?

	[interesting comparisons of IK, IB, RH, KD deleted]

>Even if you disagree with my rankings, I am sure that you will agree
>with me that over the past 12-15 years we have seen 4 of the top 6-8
>all rounders of all time, and they have given me a lot of enjoyment
>and delight.

	No argument with the last bit -- thanks to all of them!  But 4 of
the top 8?  Let's see.  Firstly, if you're going to include Hadlee (master
bowler, reasonable bat), you have to include Hammond (master bat, reasonable
bowler), who I don't think anyone would take seriously as one of the all-time
greatest all-rounders.  If you're going to include Imran Khan (good Test
class bat, good Test class bowler, but rarely both at the same time) you'd
better include Rhodes (ditto).

	As someone who saw a lot of all of them at Trent Bridge, I'd say
that in modern times you have to include Mike Proctor and Clive Rice as
comparable with any of them [it wasn't Rice's fault that he never played
in Tests -- he was nearly as good as Hadlee with the ball, much better
with the bat, and a brilliant captain and fielder].  Going back a bit
further, we get Davidson, Benaud, Bailey, Reid, Barlow, Goddard, Greig
and the incomparable Miller (*my* vote for second behind Sobers since the
war).  Lindwall too has similar claims to Hadlee's.

	Pre-war, how about Constantine, Woolley, Hirst [the only man ever
to perform the double double] and "Jacker" [Stanley Jackson, who in 1905
was England's captain, and topped the batting and bowling in a "Boy's Own"
performance fully as unbelievable as Botham's in 1981].  Then there's
Giffen, Mynn and W. G. Grace, whose batting was so completely dominant
that many forget that he was also one of the very top bowlers, fielders
and all-round athletes of his day (until the increasing girth that is all
too evident in photos of his later years made him immobile).  I expect
I've forgotten a few Australians and others in this list.

	OK, by my reckoning you've found 4 of the top 23!  For the all-time
greats, I think we want all-rounders who might reasonably have been chosen
as specialist batsman [top 5 in the order] or as specialist bowler [at
either the same or a different time] for a reasonably strong team.  Then
we lose Hadlee, and Botham and Kapil Dev become rather marginal.  We are
left with Imran Khan, Rhodes, Proctor, Rice, Reid, Miller, Sobers,
Hirst, Jackson, Giffen and Grace as the top 11.  Not a bad team to play
Mars!  Botham, Kapil Dev, Constantine, Barlow and Woolley as reserves, to
make up the touring party?  Benaud as team manager, Jackson as captain
(otherwise Grace wouldn't play), toss for wicket-keeper (or perhaps you
want to include one of the great WK/batsmen such as Ames or Waite).

-- 
Andy Walker, Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk