HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Broadcast Tribute to Cage
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:18:19 GMT

For those of you who are able to get CBC (Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation) stations, there will be a major, 2 hour tribute to John
Cage on the CBC-FM network on Sun. Aug 23, on the regular program "Two
New Hours".
-- 
==========================================================================
Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 08:14:55 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject:    John Cage

I imagine mine will not be the only posting of info about Cage's death,
but I didn't see anything this morning and will go ahead and do it anyway.
Cage died yesterday (8/12/92) in New York.  He had suffered a stroke.
Cage was 79. National coverage has been miniscule (a piece on National
Public Radio, someone told me), but nothing on networks that I saw.

Bob
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: Heisenberg indeterminacy and orchestration (was Re: When is close close enough for just intonation)
Keywords: intonation, intervals
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:57:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.232903.19191@newshost.unh.edu> dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman) writes:

>It is worth pointing out that orchestrators intuitively take account of
>the distinction above: staccato writing is considered more idiomatic
>for instruments with richer higher partials, or in high pitch instruments.

But why then are violin bows longer than cello bows? :-) :-)

Seriously though, isn't this profound statement just equivalent to the
observation that high pitched instruments in general play faster than lower
pitched ones?

So far so good.

Now, I might be mistaken, but are you sure the oboe, whose sound is supposedly
rich in partials has lines that are notoriously faster than flutes whose sound
supposedly lacks partials? If it is "idiomatic" to try to make pitches
measurable (by the ear) as precisely as possible (what you call to make them
definite), do you have any idea what might have happened there?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Subject: Re: Complete Set of LvB Piano Sonatas
Reply-To: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:49:49 GMT

1) Is there a complete set of the sonatas played by Stephen Bishop ?

2) What is considered "the best" set (except Schnabel) ?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Tower Records : Sale
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:38:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.190233.21607@visual.com> rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
>>there are a few of us here at yale who will be interested in
>>driving down to NY but would like to do so if there is a sale!
>
:
>							  The
>classical department in the NYC city Tower is about half that
>of the one in Boston, 

Yes, but we have *two*, so ...

>			plus if I remember correctly, you have to
>go to another address altogether to look at clearance CDs and 
>cutouts.  
>

Yes, and that 25 yard stretch along 4th street is considered
one of the most dangerous locations in the world, not excepting
Tehran or Baghdad.

>Rob
>
>

OK, I'm convinced.  I'll start shopping there immediately.

--------
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Telefunken records
Summary: see Teldec
Keywords: Telefunken
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:27:39 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug20.163841.29539@den.mmc.com> sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:
>jhill@gallstone.bucknell.edu (HILL, S JACKSON) writes:
>
>>I am trying to track down a Telefunken recording Tel 6.28575. [..]  Does
>>Telefunken still produce or have they been sold to another company?  Is there
>>anyone reading this who is in Germany and could telephone a local record shop
>>for me and post or e-mail any information?  Any info would be welcome.
>>Thanks.   J. Hill    (jhill@bucknell.edu)
>
>Along these lines, if Telefunken is still in business, do they have CDs
>of earlier works?  I have an old, worn LP set of JSB organ works,
>entitled "Dal Alte Werk".  [...]

"Das Alte Werk" is the name of a series of their CDs (and LPs, if they
still make any), not limited to Bach's works.  If you told us the
performer ... could it be Herbert Tachezi?

Telefunken CDs are sold, at least in this country, under the name
Teldec.  As I understand, it stands for Telefunken/Decca, but I'm not
sure what is the ownership status of the company nowadays.  In any case,
many LPs from `60-`70 (at that time still from Telefunken) were
re-issued on CDs by Teldec, but all too many were deleted from the
catalog very soon.  Also, the availability of their recordings here may
differ from that in Europe.

For quite a few years, Teldec had no luck with distributors in the U.S.
They were picked up and dropped by several distributors, for some
strange reasons.  I forget with whom they are now, but the dust seems to
have settled.

Anyway, it has always been one of the most interesting labels with "old"
music - it brought us Harnoncourt, a lot of Leonhardt, and the complete
edition of Bach's cantatas, to name a few.  There were also some great
recordings of mediaeval music with Binkley's "Studio der Fruehen Musik",
most of which disapeared from the catalog before you could figure out
who was their distributor at that time.

Their mid-price line is called "Reference", if anyone's interested.

Oh, and btw, I think that the numbering 6.xxxxx has changed completely
to something like ZS or ZK or similar.  I still have some CDs from the
same series, some of which have both numberings, some only the new ones.
You would need to find an old catalog to identify a CD by its old
number.  I _may_ have their address, though, but as I said, they tend to
delete their titles after a short time.


-Margaret
mikulska@astro.princeton.edu


PS.  At least as Telefunken, they (used to?) make electronic equipment,
audio and other.  One of the first radios my father listened to was a
Telefunken set, and that was before WWII.  Anyway.
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Complete Rossini Overtures on Philips CDs
Date: 17 Aug 92 01:11:40 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

It's been 200 years since Rossini was born, and the record companies
have been taking note of the occasion, although with nothing like the
fervor which attended the 200th anniversary of Mozart's death last
year.  Philips Classics has released four multi-disc sets of Rossini's
music: three operas and a set of the complete overtures.  However, only
the latter has been released in the US so far (434 016, 3 mid-priced
CDs); are we colonials going to get the rest too? 

The performances, originally recorded in 1974-1979,  are by the
Academy of St.-Martin-in-the-Fields under the direction of Neville
Marriner (amazing how that just trips off the tongue now).  There
should be no difficulty in finding more exciting or imaginative
performances of any of the more famous overtures, but Marriner's set
certainly is decently played and recorded.  They are joined by the
Ambrosian Singers in the overture to "Ricciardo e Zoraide" and
"Ermione". 

According to Philips, Rossini's complete overtures number 26, not
counting those which served for more than one opera.  The notes are by
Rossini scholar Philip Gossett, who should know what he is talking
about, although I have become wary of descriptions such as "complete"
- just when you thought a set of something was complete, someone
comes along and discovers one more.  Be that as it may, this is the
most comprehensive collection of Rossini's overtures that is available,
and it is a safe but not stellar recommendation for those who want this
music. 





--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jes33223@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jerald E. Shelato)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:44:11 GMT

Then the speaker at Cage's funeral said, "Let us observe a moment of
silence in honor of our late friend." After a few moments passed, Cage
himself sat up in his coffin and shouted, "I thought I told you all
that I didn't want any damned music at my funeral!"

But seriously, folks, the contemplative depth of John Cage and his
compositions is simply unequalled by any other composer. Open your
window and listen sometime.


Jerry Shelato
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
jes33223@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Singers wanted
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:24:39 EDT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Aug12.200604.22746@viewlogic.com>
brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:

:It seems community choral groups often go for Bach, Mozart, and the like.
:This is nothing to object to, but I wonder why some music seems to be
:often avoided. For example, a capella works by Monteverdi or Desprez,
:which I find particularly spectacular in live performance, are not
:often done. 
:
:Admittedly, the appeal of Rennaisance music is not as broad as Baroque, 
:but surely the audience (and indeed prospective singers) would not stay 
:away in droves if along with Bach's Magnificat was advertised O Magnum 
:Mysterium. 
:
:I would like to be mistaken. If anyone knows of community choral groups
:doing Desprez et al, please say so. This may be academic outside of
:eastern Massachusetts, but maybe someone else wants to know.

See the following concert announcement.  We don't exactly fall under
"community chorus", but still...

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Wanted: A crash course in composer's styles
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:51:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.133358.14160@zip.eecs.umich.edu> carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes) writes:
>
>A good one to start with is Charles Rosen's THE
>CLASSICAL STYLE, which is primarily about Haydn, Mozart, and
>Beethoven.  See in particular the early chapters about the classical
>style in general.

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!

While Charles Rosen's book is *excellent*, it will likely go sailing over
the head of someone who wants a casual intro to musical styles of all 
periods.

I'd recommend using a regular university text:

	A History of Western Music
	Donald J. Grout & Claude Palisca

	Listen
	Joseph Kerman

	The Enjoyment of Music
	Joseph Manchlis


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: CD Shops in Washington/Baltimore area
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:29:22 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug7.003918.6858@ac.dal.ca> hipychik@ac.dal.ca (Bass Ackwards) writes:
>Hi all,
>
>I'll be travelling to the Baltimore-Philadelphia-Washington area in a couple
>of weeks, and wonder if anyone can recommend any good record (or should I
>say, CD...) shops in or around those areas. I've never been to this neck of the
>woods before, so some directions may be helpful! Replies by e-mail will
>suffice. Thanks in advance!
>                                  - Darin

In DC, check out Serenade, Olssons, and (of course) Tower.  They are all
within walking distance from one another downtown, near a couple Metro
stops.  Serenade is a nice place with good service, Olssons is kind of
generic, but may have a sale going on, and Tower is, of course, Tower.

Ah, DC....

-chris
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Complete Set of LvB Piano Sonatas
Keywords: Arrau, Beethoven
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:42:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In article <1992Jul23.113444.18001@philabs.philips.com>, kpl@philabs.philips.com (K P Lee) writes:
>|> 
>|> In article <1992Jul22.144109.1967@brandonu.ca>, hanly@brandonu.ca writes:
>|> |> There is also a complete set of the sonatas recorded by Claudio Arrau on
>|> |> lp's but I don't know whether they have been released on CD. I found
>|> |> them quite enjoyable but have not really compared them with other versions.
>|> 
>|> This is available on the Philips label, 432 301-2, 10 CDs.
>|> 

I have this set, and there is much to enjoy, with one major unforgiveable 
exception:  The slow movement of the Hammerklavier sonata is split between 
sides!! Now, I love this sonata, and that movement especially, and I think 
it is better than the other versions I have (Ashkenazy, Gilels, Brendel, 
Bishop, Casadesus), but the split just ruins it for me!  I'm hoping to find 
it on Philips budget CD soon and get my life back on track...

Ron
From: Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Chopin Preludes by Cortot
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 22:38:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <BsyBLs.Gt5@cs.columbia.edu>

  In article <1992Aug13.184205.20147@colorado.edu> Li Du inquires
about the Cortot recordings of the Chopin preludes.  The only one
I have is the 1930's version (also containing the Impromptus) and
it is a masterpiece.  Listen to it and compare any more recent
version and you will see why they talk of a "Golden Age" of pianism
earlier in this century.  (I suppose I can't really say that, as
I am only familiar with the other recordings I have - Rubinstein,
Moravec, Novaes, Ashkenazy - but I doubt anybody since has
surpassed Cortot)

    Bill Pearce
From: leon@garnet.berkeley.edu (Leon C. Salcedo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Transcendental Etudes of Liszt
Date: 15 Aug 1992 07:47:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Franz Liszt
Originator: leon@garnet.berkeley.edu


Hi. I would like to know if there exist a recording of Liszt's 12 Grandes Etudes
(1837 version of Transcendental Etudes). Also, are there any recordings of
Ferruccio Busoni of these etudes (1837 or 1851 version)?


Thanks in advance.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:52:50 GMT

In article <dcjybvj@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. Mccomb) writes:
>In article <BtCExI.J1o@news.udel.edu> Jon Alan Conrad writes:
>>I recall someone posting indignantly a couple months back, 
>>"Let's have fewer *facts* in these discussions!"
>
>Facts are boring.
>

Only when taken as directed.

>T. M. McComb, ex-academic
>

Steve, who used to have a degree, but left it somewhere.
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Manners, children please...
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:19:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.221258.26607@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.035147.5171@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
[....]
>>people like Havergal Brian
>>were in desparate straights because Cage-ism and anti-Cage-ism were
>>messing up the bandwidth.
>
>I find that hard to believe.  Even if it's true, it sounds like envy;
>but I doubt that the vast majority of listeners who have never engaged
>in either side of the debate around Cage would have rushed out to buy
>more Brian records or tickets if the debate had not been going on.  
>
>Of course, Cage's music and ideas influenced hundreds of other
>composers, too, even Benjamin Britten.  Shall we excoriate *them*, too,
>for "messing up the bandwidth"?  
>
>The vast majority of musical discourse in the last 60 years or so (since
>Cage began composing) has been taken up by things utterly unrelated to
>John Cage.  I bet John, Paul, George, and Ringo had about as much to do
>with Havergal Brian's situation as John Cage did.
>
>(And the Gustav Mahler revival ten times as much...)

Oh I don't think so. I suspect that if impresarios hadn't begun to get
used to the cost of performing Mahler symphonies, the Gothic would
still not have been heard, much less recorded.

I entirely agree with everything else you said though.

Deryk Barker.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:13:25 GMT

In article <Bt3xMp.xL@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

>I'm all for letting people think whatever they want about Cage, and I happen 
>to think he produced garbage, and I am contempuous of him and of those
>pretentious "art lovers" who fawn at his feet (or grave as it were).

So what? Who wouldn't be contemptuous of "art lovers", especially those
awful pretentious ones, no matter whether they fawned at the feet or
harumphed at the head?

Those of us who just find Cage's work worth listening to and thinking 
about feel woefully abandoned by your failure to pass your legendary
judgemental eye over our activities.

							Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: Re: Heisenberg indeterminacy and orchestration (was Re: When is close close enough for just intonation)
Keywords: intonation, intervals
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:19:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.201834.6270@newshost.unh.edu> dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman) writes:
>I believe I was claiming more:  That given two instruments in the same
>low range, staccato would me more ideomatic for the richer tone.  Even
>where just a single instrument is involved, say a French horn, staccato
>playing will demand a brassier tone.
>
> [...]
>
>In rapid legato passage work there are psychological queues that reinforce
>pitch perception.  Fast staccato in the low register of the flute is
>notoriously difficult - it is hard to get the notes to ``speak,'' especially
>without tonguing (which introduces transient high partials in the form of
>noice.)   If one produces short low steady sine tone bursts one hears an
>audible click at the onset of each tone - the higher partials.  If one
>tries to suppress the click by shaping the envelop of the note, the pitch
>becomes less definite by the other considerations I described.  It really
>is a profound fact, but I may not be doing it justice.

Well at least this is a rare attempt (at least to my uninformed knowledge)
at explaining (a restricted practice in) orchestration from a systematic
basis. I've always thought of orchestration as a mixture of recipes, technical
considerations arising from the physical limitations of instruments, and
nebulous discussions of "colour" and so on. It would be nice if we could have
a theory of orchestration (a grammar of timbres) approximating the level that
has been reached by the grammar of pitches-and-rhythm (harmony)

I don't know if this is a beginning :-) but I have my feeling that due to
historical circumstances, there is no such thing as a consistent way in which
the Western listener puts structure on whatever is orchestration in a musical
text the way he/she imposes structure when it comes to harmony.

If this kind of function was really a result of the physical properties of
sound then I would see how your argument could possibly be valid but I have
that second feeling that questions of precise intonation, beats and so on have
very little to do with the function of pitches (as long as the pitches are not
so badly out of tune as to mislead the listener into another function or to
present him with some ambiguity as to the function; what exactly is our
tolerance and how it works is another questions and might be influenced by
the physics of the situation, I'll accept that).

If then precise discussions of pitch, orvertones and so on, are not trully
what (in my opinion) explains harmony (but historical circumstances;
in other words I think our ear is more shaped by the music we've heard from
the day we were born than by allegeded universal physical properties of the
sounds; granted that certain historical development can be influenced in
a global sense by those physical properties) I'd be surprised that this is
what could explain orchestration.
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rockin' with Ockhegem (was JOHN CAGE)
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:43:07 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <#njy48n@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. McComb) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.201614.2576@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
>>In article <9fjyh-l@rpi.edu> Todd M. McComb writes:
>>>A somewhat earlier example of this kind of ambiguity is the 15th century
>>>composer, Johannes Ockeghem.  In particular, his Missa Cuiusvis Toni can
>>>be sung in any of the four basic modes of the time (depending on musica
>>>ficta.)

>>Don't be so sure.  Some scholars have recently reinterpreted the title
>>to mean "Which tone?" rather than "whatever tone", i.e., it's a riddle
>>piece like Ockhegem's Prenez sur moi votre example.  In fact, they argue
>>that it should only be done in Phrygian mode.

>Really?  What is the musical basis for the latter statement?
>Are there plans to record it?  I don't believe it has a 'correct'
>mode, but I'm willing to be shown otherwise.

I don't know whether the papers have been published regarding this; I
think the source was the 1985 Princeton Conference on Mode.  I could ask
Margaret Bent about it.  I don't know the exact arguments, either; not
quite my field.

>>Oh, and the way to do it in other modes is to change clefs, not ficta.
>>Ficta has no bearing on mode, in general.

>Aren't these things tied up together?  I'm no expert -- I just like
>the music.

Mode in polyphony came into the picture rather late; in fact, Ockhegem's
mass is one of the first that seems to descibe the whole piece as being
modal, not just the cantus firmus at its heart (as in "Missa L'Homme
Arme Sexti Toni" for instance).  By then there were several centuries of
ficta theory and practice.  At any rate, the application of musica ficta
does not change the mode of a piece; this is generally closely related
to, if not identical to, the mode of the tenor.  And even if the tenor
receives a cadential alteration here or there, or has a flat added to a
passage (or more) for reasons of beauty or necessity (tehcnical terms,
btw), its mode is not considered to have changed.  

Somewhere in the back of my desk/mind/whatever is some stuff about
Willaert and mode and ficta, esp. wrt his Pater Noster.  It's based on a
non-modal chant, but the chant has been altered -- perhaps to modalize
it.  The piece suggests some play between mode and ficta.  But that's
well over half a century after Ockhegem, and doesn't relate much to the
practices of other composers, either.

Roger
>
>T. M. McComb
>
>Oh, and count me in the oak category.
From: sec@otter.hpl.hp.com (Simon Crouch)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:10:15 GMT
Subject: Die Meistersinger
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.