From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Kahane
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:48:52 GMT

In <199211230014.AA19926@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> Murray Kahl
<kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> writes:

[Kahl]
>>Exactly whom do you feel the Arab members of the Knesset represent if not 
>>the PLO? 

[Skoll]
>If you have documentation of this, please present it, to us and the 
>Knesset.  As far as I know, the Arab MK's represent their constituents; 
>namely, Arab citizens of Israel. 

[David]
>An Alice in Wonderland approach is not about to fool anyone. You're quite
>right, the Arab members of the Knesset represent their Arab constituents, and
>no others. Try a survey here and ask if that should be their complete
>concern, or rather the safty of ALL the citizens of the country?

In any democracy, members of political parties represent, first and foremost,
their constituents.  Of course, they also are concerned with the safety of
the entire country.  But you have still not offered any evidence that the
Israeli Arab MK's represent the PLO.  Instead, you changed the subject.  So
once again, I ask Mr. Kahl:  Please present one piece of evidence that the
Arab MKs represent the PLO.  That evidence, if it exists, is surely of utmost
importance to the State of Israel, and Mr. Kahl has an obligation to
present it.

[Kahl]
>>All one has to do is ask the family of Helena Rapp, the 15 year old school 
>>girl who was just sliced up at a bus stop in Bat Yam. 

[Skoll]
>That was terrible and tragic, but what do the Arab MK's have to do with 
>it?  There's a lot more evidence linking Kach/Kahane Chai with the 
>murder of a 70-year-old Arab man than there is to link Israeli Arab 
>MK's with the murder of Helena Rapp. 

[Kahl]
>You contradict yourself as you say above they represent the Arab residents of
>the country and then you split them apart.

Are you saying that because one Arab from Gaza went on a murderous rampage
that all Arabs are guilty?  And, to the best of my knowledge, the Israeli
government does not regard Arab residents of Gaza, Judea or Samaria as
residents of Israel.  Furthermore, those Arabs do not have representation
in the Knesset, and are thus not connected with the Arab MKs.

>You may also, if you wish
>demonstrate that Kach and Kahane Chai are one group as you seem to imply.

They may not be one group, but they follow the principles of one leader.
This distinction is similar to distinguishing between the PLO and the
PFLP, for example.

>>While your statement is all inclusive and clearly not true, Kahane was a 
>>saintly figure, the victim, the scapegoat, the paradoxically gentle man of 
>>violence with a weapon in one hand and a mea culpa in the other. 
> 
>>>Oh, please.  "Gentle man of violence" indeed.  I don't know about 
>>>Kahane, 
> 
>If you don't know about Kahane, why say anything?

You know nothing about rhetoric, because you cut my sentence in two, thus
changing its meaning completely.

[Skoll]
>>>but the actions and statements of his followers in Israel in 
>>>the past few days seem to indicate that they are bloodthirsty rabble 
>>>more than "gentle" or "saintly." 

[Kahl]
>If you have some evidence that the police do not, don't tell us, give it to
>the police.

Well, according to the Reuters news agency:

R>Energy Minister Amnon Rubinstein asked the attorney-general to put the
R>leaders of Kach and the related Kahane Lives movement on trial for
R>inciting terrorism after the two groups praised the attack.

And according to Michael Shimshoni on scj:

M>On the  other hand spokemen  for both these  groups when asked  by the
M>press, while denying  being behind this act, said that  they bless the
M>hands  of those  who  threw  the grenade,  avenging  Jewish blood  and
M>redeeming at least somewhat the honour of the Jewish people.

Note that those reactions are hardly those of "gentle" people, but more
like those of violent thugs.

>You may translate Horace any way you wish, but what I find disturbing is
>someone attacking a just man, a good Jew, a martyr, and while doing so
>admitting he knows nothing about him. 

What "just man... a martyr" are you talking about?  I'm talking about the
late Meir Kahane, a man who preached violence.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________