From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:31:11 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

ibm01@acci.com.au (William Lo -> Elvis? Why not?) writes:

>In article <2413@aegis.or.jp>, davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

[* Reply to something somebody else said omitted *]

>|> I fail to see why China necessarily needs the relationship with Japan.
>|> Until Japan apologizes of it's own accord, why not establish relationships
>|> with countries and people China gets along with?
>	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>	Are you speaking of the countries(excluding Japan) that China gets along
>with? Pretty inexplicable here, mate. Why bother - again - to "establish 
>relationships" when you already get along with them?

OK, poor choice of words. How about "strengthen already existing and
perhaps make new relationships"? My point was that more might be
obtained putting time and effort into what's working instead of
trying for what seems to be impossible (getting a satisfactory
apology out of Japan).	

[* Reply to somethig somebody else said omitted *]

>|> In my experience, there is very little relationship beween the
>|> actions of the Japanese government-politicians and the way people
>|> really think.

>	This applies to everywhere in the world where 'true' democracy doesn't
>(or doesn't really) exist, it's telling an impossible story. But, when we're
>asking for written and verbal apologies(we need both), and compensations in
>real terms(ie. money), we're referring to those from the Japanese gov't(inc.
>the parties who performed the killings). We're basically justice seekers. 
>Justice and truth are things just too sacrosanct to deny.

OK, then go for it. I think you'll have a hard time trying to form
an internal concensus as to exactly what is Justice and truth.

>|> >Even during WWII, I don't believe that all Japanese want to conquer
>|> >China.  But the government controlled everything then, and it still
>|> >appears that the government is in control now.  If the Japanese 
>|> >government does not admit that what it did during WWII was wrong,
>|> >there is no reason why its neighbours should not be suspicious of
>|> >its intent.
>|> 
>|> Yes, I think the Japanese government is in control of many things.
>|> Yes, I can understand how Japan's neighbous feel be suspicous. No, I
>|> don't think that that yelling, screaming, complaining, demanding,
>|> and otherwise trying to force Japan to apologize will have a
>|> positive outcome. 

>	Quite right. But we can't just sit there waiting for something to
>happen, can we? You should recognise actions speak louder than words. That
>is, some positive measures have to be done(perhaps in the form of sanction,
>boycott, etc). Note that doing the positive things doesn't positively guarantee 
>any success or the 'positive outcomes' if any. 

Huh?

In my terminology, positive things are whatever it takes to achieve
postive outcomes. What does it matter if something looks positive,
people say it's positive, and you are absolutely sure it's postive
if it doesn't lead to the a postive outcome? 

>|> If you're hungry, you do your best to get something to eat. But if
>|> you just walk into the store and grab it you get in trouble.  You
>|> have to be a bit more clever and not only get what you want but get
>|> it in ways that don't cause you more problems, don't you. 

>	We're hungry, so we eat - that you and I do. It doesn't seem
>right to say: we're hungry so we grab(food). Or if you presume we're nothing
>but grabbers, that we're not 'clever' enough to get the food we want because
>we're obviously too bloody desperate... baby, what the hell are you talking
>about?

China is trying to get an apology out of Japan (the food) but the
way the people here are going about it is not very clever (like
running into the store and grabbing it). 

Oh well, I guess it's like you say, you're too bloody desparate to
show any finesse :-)

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087