HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Harleys in others' ads (was Re: Cepacol radio ad)
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:23:38 -0600
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <C031tD.Cyz@cmptrc.lonestar.org>, neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal
Howard) wrote:
> 
> Anyone see the '58 Duo-Glide panhead featured in the AST ad on the back
> cover on a PCWEEK magazine?? I think the last one was the Nov. 23rd issue.
> I wonder how Harley feels about AST's usage of this photo in their ad?

Jesus, even IBM is using a Harley (communications week mag, I think)
-- a badly done composite image of a twin engine Harley.  Sigh.  
Triumphs are looking better every day.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: Who buys these things?
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:14:54 GMT

> >Not tough but damned stupid.  Who the hell wants to be 18 again?
> >Or 45 for that matter.

I wouldn't mind being 18 again and I paid $11,000 for my 1991 FXSTC.
Does that mean I'm having my mid life crisis at age 32?

- Roid
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: exhaust swap
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:43:33 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <72497167418513@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov>, gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks) writes:
| Can the exhaust be swapped on a new Harley before the engine has been
| broken in ? I want to put the 2 into 1 pipes on the bike so I can use
| bigger
| bags. One dealer has said not to change the exhaust until the bike has 
| its first 500 miles, another dealer has said it does not matter, swap
| it when the bike comes in ! Any input on this ?

  You should break in the engine on stock everything, to preserve your
waranty. After that be *sure* you get someone with the proper meter to
recalibrate the input end after you change the exhaust. Better pipes
usually make the engine run lean, and that white crap on the plugs of a
lean engine is aluminum vapor.

  On a new bike I'd see if the dealer would do the install, even for top
bucks, since that should preserve the waranty. If you think the bike was
expensive the way you ordered it, wiat until you see what it costs out
of the parts book!

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: El pan lower ends
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:28:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Organization: MSUS

In article <EDP.92Dec23125045@roo.sneaks.kodak.com>, edp@sneaks.kodak.com
(Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting) wrote:
> 
> 
> PS I have a line on someone with a perfect 55-57 pan straight leg frame
> for $1200. I'm not going for it.

That's the going rate here in Minnesota, too.  Expensive and IMHO, 
not an attractive frame.  I know.  I've got a '56.
From: terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: THE doh ROSTER
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:25:37 GMT
Organization: PRC Realty Systems, McLean, VA

In article <22912@drutx.ATT.COM>, car377@druhi.ATT.COM 'Roid' Rogers writes:
    a bunch of stuff about doh numbers, etc....


So....   

What's the difference between rec.motorcycles and rec.motorcycles.harley ?

Not a damn thing as near as I can tell.  Same old US vs Jap wars, same
tired wars over lane splitting, helmets, size of yer dicks; 
a secret club thats really 'just a joke'.....

Explain to me once again the point of this news group and why it's
different from r.m

Terry

-- 
 | Terry Cunningham terry@rsi.prc.com | "I don't like the looks of that      |
 | DoD# 541   'Debunkers of Dogma'    |  teenager over there" Grampa Simpson |
 | Highly Individual Flaming Idiot    |                                      |
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: jhall@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Joel Hall)
Subject: Bringing Harley to tour Europe
Reply-To: jhall@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
Organization: New Technology, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:30:28 GMT

Excuse me if this isn't the right place to post...
I will be going to Western Europe for about 6 months
this summer and I am going to get me either a used
883 or 1200 to get me around while I'm there.
So my question is - would it be cheaper to get it
here and ship it, or purchase one over there if that
is possible.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joel
-- 
Joel Hall        New Technology Inc., Huntsville, Al.(205-461-4921)
inet address:    jhall@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
From: scol@scottsdale.az.stratus.com (Scott Colbath)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: GODDAMMYUPPIEHARLEYSHOPRIPOFFDICKHEADS
Date: 22 Dec 1992 21:24:42 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: scottsdale.az.stratus.com

I was checking out this new yupster scooter shop (named Surgical Steeds) here  
in North Scottsdale, Az. the other day and here is what I saw. A later model  
shovelhead in a Paugho wishbone style rigid frame, FLH front end, lots of  
goodies, done well. Here's the good part. The sign on the bike read as follows:
******************
1963 FLH CLASSIC
$23,500
******************
Yeah right. I don't know how they can pull this one over on someone. The motor  
has the timing cone vs. the old style generator cover on the right side (I  
forget the years of the generator shovels). The title would have to say the  
truth. And the price!! This bike probably cost $10,000 in parts and labor to  
build. The sad thing is some rich Scottsdale wannabe will buy it at full price  
and think he owns a gem of a classic.
--
**********************************************************
Scott Colbath
Stratus Computer
Phoenix, Az.  (602)852-3106
Internet:scott_colbath@az.stratus.com
**********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Yuppie Harleys, NEW BIKE, rantings
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:30:42 -0600
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <mtrost.725059881@convex.convex.com>, mtrost@convex.com (Matthew
Trost) wrote:

> I like shovels a lot. I want a generator bottom, and a shovel top.

My man!  But are you saying you want the later pan/shovel that Harley
made or convert a pan _to_ a shovel (or does it make much diff)

> But I'd love to be able to afford a evo too. (keep the miles off the shovels)

Hey, Mathew.  Refer to Scott Colbath's post (GODAMNED...) and maybe you
can find a pan/shovel priced at MORE than an evo.

OK, REAL QUESTION -- What are the differences (if any) between the
1000cc and 1200cc Panhead _lower_ ends.  I've a line on a couple
1000cc wrecks.  
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray)
Subject: Re: lane-splitting etiquette (& **** Harley questions ****)
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc., Sunnyvale, CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:37:51 GMT

In article <102961@netnews.upenn.edu> ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera) writes:
>
>1) Why did Harley deem it important to develop belt drive?  (I know chains
>are dirty.)  It seems that many clamor for performance (carbs, cams, exhausts)
>but few clamor for belt drive.  Let me put it this way.  From what I gather,
>to add belt drive to a Sporty costs about $400-$500.  And an S&S E costs about
>$300 and say you get a cam for $200.  Would you rather belt drive or a carb
>and a cam for your money?

But it doesn't cost Harley that much, since they don't have to install
the chain drive first.

I think they developed the belt for the touring bike(s), and then extended
it over the range.  It performs well, lasts a long time, is similar
enough to a chain from a manufacturing/assembley standpoint, and most
important, many harley customers probably wouldn't buy a shaft-drive bike.

>2) Why do 4 cylinder foreign bikes have 4 carbs but 2 cylinder Harley's have
>one carb (although the XR1000 might have had 2)?

Most Harleys are not tuned for high power, so they don't need the
extra breathing from two carbs.  So again, manufacturing concerns
(and customer conservatisim) dictate a single carb.

>4) Why isn't a rubber mounted engine at least an option for a Sporty?  Does
>any third party manufacture a rubber mount system for a Sporty?

Buell :-)

>5) Why doesn't Harley manufacture the engine in the XR750 (Rotax of Austria
>does I believe)?

No, Harley does, in their race shop.  Rotax makes the "harley" 600cc singles
that are used in dirt-track racing.  The XR750 is pure Harley.

>6) Why doesn't Harley sell a street version of the XR750?

That was what the XR1000 was for.  It sold poorly, but good ones
are now going for $7k or so (in the SF bay area).  I think it was
made in '82 and '83.



--
  Eric Murray                                             ericm@microunity.com
      "Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper!"- Leader Kibo
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: root@june.cmp.rpi.edu (J.R. Ordon)
Subject: EVO peak HP & Torque specs
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:47:16 GMT

Anybody out there have the Peak HP and Torque specs for the
EVO sporty's?  883 & 1200 if possible.
And also a spec comparison to a Jap bike, such as the CB750 Nighthawk??

--------------------------------------
J.R. Ordon        '80 CB750C


In my dreams .....'93 Dyna Lowrider
From: lotto@laura.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Date: 24 Dec 92 21:35:36 GMT
	<1992Dec23.184102.9663@megatek.com> <103147@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Chemistry Dept., Harvard University
In-reply-to: ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu's message of 24 Dec 92 13:57:09 GMT

Harley-Davidson has converted to belts because:

They are more efficient than chains
They are smoother than chains
They are require less maintenance than chains
They last longer than chains
They are quieter than chains
They are strong enough to handle the power output of all but the most
	radically modified HD engines
They are cheaper (on a mileage or chronological basis)

and now with the Dyna chassis

They nearly as easily replaced.  Of course, if you don't have a
Dyna-foo it's swing-arm dropping time!

and the best reason of all...

Because I like belts better than chains.
--
Jerry Lotto <lotto@lhasa.harvard.edu>         MSFCI, HOGSSC, BCSO, AMA, DoD #18
Chemistry Dept., Harvard Univ.  "It's my Harley, and I'll ride if I want to..."
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: El pan lower ends
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:11:14 GMT

--
In article <Dec.29.11.47.04.1992.17204@presto.ig.com>, steve@presto.ig.com
(Steve Barnhouse) writes:

|>How come nobody makes reproduction frames????  How hard is it to make
|>a frame?  What tools do you need other than a welding machine?
|>
|>--steve                                          steve@presto.ig.com

Jammer, Kennedy's, Santee, Paughco, CCI, Arlen Ness and a whole host of
others make reproduction frames. Some are good, some are not as good.

Someone else is repoping the frame castings so one can restore a hacked
up raked or stretched frame back to 'stock'.

You're missing the point. The true value of an antique bike is in its
originality. Show judges will tear you apart if you don't have the even
the right brand of nuts and bolts (yes, you can tell)!

A '48 Pan with repop all over it in an aftermarket frame is worth $6K, 
maybe $7K with a fancy paint job. A complete restored classic down
to the frame, nuts and bolts is worth whatever the last person paid
for one. The last auction price I saw on one was $20K. Makes the extra
$1,000 for a real uncut frame seem like peanuts, doesn't it?

CdH


<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@shr.dec.com
From: ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Date: 25 Dec 92 17:55:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec24.183655.21768@microunity.com> ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes:
>In article <103147@netnews.upenn.edu> ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera) writes:
>[...]
>>
>>Someone said that belt drive allowed Harley to pass noise regulations.  If this
>>is true, what do the Japanese do to their bikes that allows them to NOT have to
>>develop their own belt drive?
>
>Water cooling and shaft drive.
>
>
>--
>  Eric Murray                                             ericm@microunity.com
>      "Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper!"- Leader Kibo

I'm still confused.  Does this means that water cooling and shaft drive
together allow foreign bikes to be quieter or is water cooling enough?  Or
is shaft drive enough?  Were the Sporties without water cooling and belt
drive (until '93) quiet enough but belt drive was added just for fun?

How about the Ducati 900SL?  It's air-and-oil cooled and chain driven.  How
about the Honda Hawk.  It's liquid cooled but chain driven.  How about the
Suzuki GSX-R1100 which is liquid cooled in '93 but still is chain driven.
How about the Kawasaki ZR1100?  It's air cooled and chain driven.  Of course
the list goes on.

George
ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: lahg8287@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lisa A. Haynes)
Subject: Re: Who buys these things?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:05:43 GMT

carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) writes:


>At age 35.5, I paid $13K (OTD, with extra helmet) for my '92 FXRS-CON.

>I'm yuppie poser scum; less than the dust under the wheels of the
>hallowed "old-timers".  For my sins, I put 9,400 miles on between March
>and October, while drawing an indecent salary and raising two kids.
>I own two Harley books, 2 dozen Harley T-shirts, belt buckles, Xmas
>tree ornament, and other assorted evil merchandise.  My 6-year-old son
>has a Harley-embossed Levi's jacket and got two Harley "stunt cycles"
>for Christmas.  I feel Sooooooo bad about all this.  <whine;snivel>

    Didn't someone  here determine you have to ride 94,000 miles a year to not
    be a poser?  Sorry, you're stuck with the label  :-) 
    (I am a huge poser, less than 600 miles since mid-november)
    I do buy a shirt or two when i go to sturgis......
    (did manage to get my son a stunt cycle too, tho)

>I fear only the passing of time will make me a Real Harley Man, having
>OWNED Harleys for 20-30 years instead of just WANTING one that long.
>--

    Ah, the passing of time made me an UnReal Harley Woman - i REFUSE to
    ride on the back anymore!
-- 
lahg8287@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu          -The Nuke E chic
From: max@admin.mport.COM (Max)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Who buys these things?
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:20:25 GMT
Organization: Microport Inc., Scotts Valley, CA 95066 US of A

In article <1992Dec23.234451.3973@icomsim.com> mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Mannning) writes:
 
>There are these two FatBoys on the floor (bikes, not salesmen), both `92s, 
>both black. I check the odometers the first one has about 1700, I nearly 
>puked. I go over to the second one and it reads, brace yourself, 562 miles. 
>Even more scary is the prices, both of them were for sale for more than I 
>paid for mine new. Something like $12,700.00 and I'm not sure that includes 
>license, title, tax or not. These had no, absolutely no, add on bits. I've 
>heard of things like this but never actually seen it myself. Not that you'd 
>ever meet one of the people who bought these things, I mean what are the 
>odds of actually catching them riding one.

every now and then i ride to l.a. to visit friends and folx, and do a
little shopping on melrose... its a great place to find offensive
clothing...

middle age yuppie scum will cruze up and down melrose with
really-loud-pipes (tm) on their brand new harleys in some misguided attempt
at recapuring what cool people did whan they were young in the 50s. 

unlike riding a harley on the open road, cruzing melrose seeems to get old
fast. it must be tough to be 45 trying to be 18 again... the bike probably
never gets a chance to scare them as they can only go 20mph in the
trafffic.. 

and so, after a summer of choking on other people exaust, the bike gets
sold back to the harley boutique across from "johnee rocket" where it had
spent so much time parked. the price goes up secure in the knowledge that
the amrket will bring forth another old man with money who wants to bestow
another 500 miles on the bike...

i think they keep the tshirts and the lighters and the stickers and the
condoms tho.... its an important reminder that they once had the wind in
their face and the throb of the harlee under their fat butt...

the honda nighthawk i ride makes hardly any noise as it takes me back up the
coast to santa cruz. on the way i see many poeple riding their motos on the
open road, not posing for the masses on melrose, just riding their bikes. 

i hope the hd demo van comes to the moto show in sf in two weeks.

 
=====================================================================
  \\\///   'full-blown, batshit-crazy,  | these are my opinions,
  //@@\\   and still holding down a     | but you are allowed to 
  // \ \   productive job...' -mueller  | borrow them...
  // - \   ----------------------------------------------------------  
    """    DoD:234 nighthawk | max@mport.com | yet another nude biker
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: car377@druhi.ATT.COM (RogersC)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: EVO peak HP & Torque specs
Summary: Interesting info from Jerry Branch
Date: 25 Dec 92 05:14:38 GMT

In article <23001@drutx.ATT.COM>, car377@druhi.ATT.COM (RogersC) writes:
> 
> The numbers from the factory service manuals are not comparable to anything, and
> are, in fact, meaningless to anyone except those factory people who happen to
> have intimate knowledge of the measurements that produced those numbers.  The
> notion of an "exact" figure is bogus unless the figure is accompanied by the 
> requisite dozen or so parameters and test conditions, any one of which can cause 
> the "exact" figure to vary significantly.  Even if the FSM specifies all of the
> test conditions and parameters that make the HP/Torque number meaningful, the
> number is *still* not comparable to any other bike's number, unless that bike 
> is subjected to the *same* exact test conditions to produce the comparison numbers.
> 
> Below are some numbers from "Cycle" magazine which are meaningful and repeatable.  
> 
> MODEL       Make Weight 1/4mile_t@v  0-60 45-70(3) 45-70(4) 45-70(5)   BHP   T(ft-lb)
> --------    ---- ------ ------------ ---- -------- -------- --------  ------ -------- 
> 
> XLH883*(87)  HD  478.0w 14.24@89.40  4.96   N/A    5.02@435 7.33@631   46.12 47.44
> XLH1200*(90) HD  491.0w 13.15@96.79  4.15 3.55@305 4.55@384 6.15@529   50.4  62.1 

Jerry Branch and Joe Minton did a *lot* of engineering testing on stock and
modified EVO HDs starting back in 1986, and they have published the complete 
results of that research in two booklets, one for the Sportsters and one for
the big twins.  There are *extensive* explanations of each mod tried and how
it affected performance, as well as several pages on how dynos work, why
different people get different numbers, and how dynos should be used for
consistent results and meaningful interpretation of the effects of performance
mods.  Their bone stock 883 Evo Sportster produced (average computed over 20 runs)
38.8 HP (max was 41.6) and 41.4 ft-lbs (max was 44.1).  The stock 1340 Evo
big twin (1338 for the excruciatingly accurate :-)) produced 57.5 HP and 
71.6 ft-lb.  If you're interested in getting these booklets, you can contact 
Branch Flowmetrics at 5556 Corporate Dr., Cypress, California 90630,
(714)-827-1463.  They are each labeled $5.00, but you might get them to send
you a free set.  I think I learned more about the theory of engine design
and operation from these booklets than from any other source I've examined.

Chuck Rogers
car377@druhi.att.com
doh #0000001340 (one of two)
From: gardner@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Kenneth E. Gardner)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: H-D 90th Reunion
Date: 30 Dec 1992 04:09:19 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.9.13

		THE HARLEY-DAVIDSON 90TH ANNIVERSARY FAMILY REUNION
			(& 1993 Reunion Ride for MDA)
				JUNE 12TH, 1993
			      MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN


	TICKETS ARE ON SALE NOW AND ARE GOING FAST.

	CHECK WITH YOUR LOCAL DEALERS OR LET ME KNOW IF I CAN HELP.
-- 
********************************************************************************
*	'78 FXE				|"Loser joins this earth and quickly   *
*	'83 XLH				|  	is subdued..." -- Un4given     *
*	'66 A65 LIGHTNING (soon)	|______________________________________*
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: El pan lower ends
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 29 Dec 92 09:30:29 -0600
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <1992Dec28.155505.1421@ryn.mro4.dec.com>,
dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn) wrote:
[...]
> 
> My brother paid $1200 for his '48 frame two years ago, and was 
> recently offered $2,000 for it. 1948 was a one off frame (springer
> Pan).

Hey, and original, stone stock early springers (big twin, not 45)
are become exceedingly scarce and there are no repops!  I was offered
$1,500 for mine last year.  Not enough!
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 08:38:20 GMT

ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera) writes:


>I didn't want to know why you like them or
>in what ways they might be superior to chains.  I wanted to know why Harley
>spent the time and money on developing them.  They could have spent this money
>on a number of other things but chose to spend it on this development.  I
>wonder why they made this decision.

	Money.  People like belts over chains, especially on Harley's where
the power pulses from that V-twin can cause a bit of jerking on the chain
at low rpm operation.  The belt is smoother, and if you've not noticed HD is
very big on supplying accessories.  My guess is that they not only had the
belt-drive kit worked out anyway, but figured the lower noise of the belt
allowed a more throaty exhaust note, which further increases sales of the
accessory pipes (if not Harley's in general).  In addition, who are you
going to buy a belt from?  Probably Harley-Davidson.  Chains can be had
from anybody, which is no money back to HD.  Finally, belts keep spooge
from being tossed onto those nifty chrome pieces, which is a further
point in HD's favor from the prospective buyer, as it the lower
maintainence.  When Yuppies are a significant portion of your new buyers,
it makes sense to offer what they want.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >