HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ummackse@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Macksey)
Subject: Stellar density?
Summary: Requesting info on density of stars.
Keywords: Sun star density
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Distribution: alt.sci
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:16:28 GMT

Hi,

This may not be the correct newsgroup for this post, but here goes anyways.
I'm currently writing a program for my PC to do simulations of stars.
However, in order to do some calculations, I need an equation as to how
the gas density of the star varies with distance from the center.  I've
managed to find out that the core density of our sun is approximately
8 times that of gold (about 1.54x10^6 kg/m^3), and I can calculate the mean
density fairly easily (total mass/volume), but I need an expression for
the internals of the star to calculate temperature and fusion amounts.

Any info?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Macksey                           "All kids love LOG(tm)!"
(ummackse@ccu.umanitoba.ca)                  -Ren & Stimpy
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
From: murty@ecf.toronto.edu (MURTY Hema Sandhyarani)
Subject: Re: The Planetary Society
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:44:47 GMT

In article <C0MAG7.A7K@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <93010946@sloth.bc.ca> chris@sloth.bc.ca (Chris Brougham) writes:
>>I saw an add in S&T for an organization called the "Planetary Society."
>>What's this organization all about? are there any members that
>>can give me a brief summation of the organizations "mandate?"
>
>It's officially in the business of promoting planetary exploration.  It
>does have some tendency to take Carl Sagan's slant on just how that should
>be done, since he's the society's President For Life :-).  It supplies some
>of the private funding currently supporting work in areas like SETI and
>looking for near-Earth asteroids.  It's also been involved in supporting
>US hardware for the 1994/1996 Russian Mars probes.
>
>>Apparently the publish a magazine called that "Planetary Report,"
>>is this magazine monthly or quarterly and is its format like S&T 
>>or a scholalry journal?
>

	This is their bimonthly publication which is now published
	on recylced paper.  It does have good photographs, but I
	think that he photographs in S&T are better.  The Planetary
	Report emphasizes explanations of current space events to
	the lay person.  The articles are written by JPL scientists
	who are involved in the project.  They are easily 
	undestandable by nonexperts in the field.  When situation
	warrants, Sagan will himself write an article in his
	usual style.

	It also has a lot of space merchandise at reasonable prices.
	These include videos, posters and t-shirts.  It also gives
	people the opportunity to start up groups in their own 
	region and to organize events, they will supply the 
	materials that are necessary.  If requested a speaker can
	come to your area.

	I recommend joining them - they are a very interesting group!

_________________

Dr. H. S. Murty
National Research Council of Canada

Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: Meteorite Collecting and Study
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:42:00 GMT

In article <93011174@sloth.bc.ca>, chris@sloth.bc.ca (Chris Brougham) writes...
>Hi,
> 
>Thanks to those who took the time to respond to my query on the
>Planetary Society.
> 
>I recently became interested in the study of meteorites; however, I 
>found that my local library only has two texts, written in the 
>1960's, on the subject. Indeed, one proposed that tektites were from 
>the lunar surface. I would like a recommendation on an up-to-date
>text on meteorites - one that discusses SNC's and the latest theories
>on tektites etc. 
> 
>That's for my scholarly side.
> 
>For my fun side ...
> 
>Are there any good books on how to find meteorites in the "wild" as
>well as nifty collecting and trading strategies? :-) I read one review
>in S&T a while back which was panned by the reviewer, Robert Haag,
>(Meteorite and Tektite Collectors Handbook by Phillip Bagnall), maybe
>other folks have read this book and found it OK?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>---
>chris brougham
>chris@sloth.bc.ca

This is not really a text on the subject, but it might help anyway...

My high school astronomy professor would go out the next day after 
a meteor shower to frozen lakes in the area and look for meteorites
and he actually had a couple. Of course, this only works in the winter
in cold climates...

------
Tim Harincar				A skunk is better company than
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			someone who prides themselves on
 					being frank. -Lazerus Long	
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Meteorite Collecting and Study
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:21:15 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <11JAN199308420980@vx.cis.umn.edu> soc1070                          writes:
>My high school astronomy professor would go out the next day after 
>a meteor shower to frozen lakes in the area and look for meteorites
>and he actually had a couple. Of course, this only works in the winter
>in cold climates...

This is the cheap version of going to Antarctica. :-)  The advantage of
checking frozen lakes is that a rock sitting out on the ice is pretty
much guaranteed not to have gotten there by other natural means.
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: The Planetary Society
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:48:06 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <93010946@sloth.bc.ca> chris@sloth.bc.ca (Chris Brougham) writes:
>I saw an add in S&T for an organization called the "Planetary Society."
>What's this organization all about? are there any members that
>can give me a brief summation of the organizations "mandate?"

It's officially in the business of promoting planetary exploration.  It
does have some tendency to take Carl Sagan's slant on just how that should
be done, since he's the society's President For Life :-).  It supplies some
of the private funding currently supporting work in areas like SETI and
looking for near-Earth asteroids.  It's also been involved in supporting
US hardware for the 1994/1996 Russian Mars probes.

>Apparently the publish a magazine called that "Planetary Report,"
>is this magazine monthly or quarterly and is its format like S&T 
>or a scholalry journal?

Like S&T, not like a journal.  It was bimonthly when I was a member,
although that was a while ago.  It's a great source of glossy photos
and a moderately good source of recent news in the area.  Technical
content is minor, scholarly content is nil.

In general, the Planetary Society does some good work but has politics
that grate on some people (like me).  It's worth trying out.  There are
other organizations that are more heavily into good work and less heavily
into glossy magazines and the Pasadena Party Line, but joining even the
Planetary Society is lots better than doing nothing.
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: djb@cluster.gps.caltech.edu (Donald Banfield)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: History of Earth/Moon system
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:35:55 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: cluster.gps.caltech.edu

	I just used or libraries computers to see if there was some
recent stuff on lunar orbital changes due to tides.  I found a couple
of articles that seemed like they're worth checking out:

Cheng, MK, Eanes, RJ, & Tapley, BD, Tidal Deceleration of the Moons Mean
Motion, Geophysical Journal International, v.108, p.401-409

Dehant, V, Review or the Earth Tidal Models & Contribution of Earth Tides
in Geodynamics, JGR-Solid Earth, v.96, p.235-240.

Williams, GE, Tidal Rhythmites - Key to the History of the Earths
Rotation and the Lunar Orbit, Journal of Physics of the Earth, v.38, p.475-491

This last one discusses paleo-evidence of the lunar period, probably more
what you wanted... sounds like the lunar recession may have speeded up a
bit around now, maybe a factor of 2 slower 600Ma ago.  I've heard of this
before, and I dimly recall speculation that it was a resonance in the
ocean tides with their basin sizes.

I'm sure you're aware that they're now directly measuring the lunar
recession speed with laser ranging.  This is what is compared with the
paleo-evidence.

If you know the distance to the moon, you can calculate the rotation rate of
the Earth, assuming that the angular momentum of the Earth-moon system hasn't
changed over the time-scale you're considering.

I don't think I'd ascribe much depth to the similarity of Press & Siever's
11hr day being like the rotation rates of Juptier or Saturn.  I think that
most people feel that the moon was somehow created in some sort of a 
cataclysmic event with the earth, which would have significantly altered
the angular momentum of the system from what it may have been primordially.
On the other hand, there is a theory regarding the rotation rates of
primordial bodies, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to even hazard a
description of it here.  Jack Lissauer and (separately, I believe) Luke
Dones & Scott Tremaine have worked on it.  Look for some recent papers of
theirs.

As far as how tidal recession is a function of distance from the central body,
I'd look at a few papers by Peter Goldreich. Namely the bunch from around
1965.  He derives the tidal changes there.  He also wrote a paper, around
1967 that discussed the tidal history (and future?) of the moon.  Try
Q Values in the Solar System, Icarus v.5, p.375-389...

I hope these ramblings help....			Don Banfield
						Caltech Planetary Science
						djb@cluster.gps.caltech.edu
From: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: Meteorite Collecting
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:28:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: PCS-BBS - San Jose, CA - 408-270-4085
Reply-To: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 

TO: henry@zoo.toronto.edu

HS>This is the cheap version of going to Antarctica. :-)  The advantage of
  >checking frozen lakes is that a rock sitting out on the ice is pretty
  >much guaranteed not to have gotten there by other natural means.

You've obviously never watched little boys at the beach.  <G>
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-8688 . ...from San Jose, CA
Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:04:02 CET
From: <K3032E0@ALIJKU11.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: Meteorite Collecting and Study
Distribution: world

In my opinion, the best way is to go to a museum (or private collector) with
a meteorite collection of at least a dozen differnet speciems: Old, weather-
ed fragments and fresh (fusion crust|) Individuals of Stony-, Stony-Iron and
Iron-Meteorites. Take also a close look at slices or cut speciems to learn
how these space rocks look inside.
Then go out and keep your eyes open. If you have discovered a possible
meteorite, check for fusion crust, and estimate (or, even better, measure)
it's density (But don't put it into water|||): Meteorites tend to be heavier
than terrest.rocks. You may cut off a small piece.(but be careful the that the
possible meteorite dosn't get too hot|) It should be easy to identify iron-
or stony-iron meteorites by then. In case of stones, check for metal grains
or chondrules. ALL (Stony-)Meteorites have much more iron than earth-rocks:
Somwhere between 15% and 20% (except Lunar- and SNC-Meteorites).
Check also weather a small magnet is attracted by the possible meteorite.

Then, if you think it may be a stone from outer space, bring it to a museum
or university for a careful analysis.

By the way: That sound greart, but don't expect to find a meteorite on your
next field trip. Here in Germany, Austria and Czech we have a camera-network
to photograph bright meteors at night. (Just like the one that was operating
in USA and Canada sometimes in the 1960s or so). You can calculate the impact-
site to a few km^2 from these photographs, but of dozens (possibly hundrets)

Pribram and Lost City). Last year possibly some 100kg of carb.Chondrite
dropped into a forest near Prague, but not a single fragment has been found.
You see, your chance to find a meteorite simply by chance is very remote|

I know, you WILL ask if I ever found a meteorite: Sorry, no...|
(You see, just words...)

For your educational side, try these two books (hope I remember them right):
* McSween: "Meteorites and their parent bodies"
* Wasson:  "Meteorites and their record of the early solar system"

Hope you have lots of fun with these space-rocks|
  Herbert
From: chris@sloth.bc.ca (Chris Brougham)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.planetary
Distribution: world
Subject: The Planetary Society
Organization: sloth prince george, bc
Date: Sat,  9 Jan 93 03:18:25 GMT


Hi,

I saw an add in S&T for an organization called the "Planetary Society."
What's this organization all about? are there any members that
can give me a brief summation of the organizations "mandate?"

Apparently the publish a magazine called that "Planetary Report,"
is this magazine monthly or quarterly and is its format like S&T 
or a scholalry journal?

Thanks for any help.


---
chris brougham
chris@sloth.bc.ca
From: trat@amiganet.chi.il.us (Tom Reamer)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.astro.aips
Subject: Hello!  I'm new here
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:49:45 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

Hello all!  Being a fanatic of Astronomy, I took it upon myself to come to this
base.

I just purchace a "real" telescope.   4.5" newtonian reflector with Eqatorial
(sp!?) mount

Sence it has been clear out yet, I havenb;t been able to allign it to the north
star etc....

Mars is the closest it's been in years...Bringing us 58 million miles away.  In
1995 it will be 63 million miles away.

The next "close encounter" will be in 2026 at a fantastic 35 million miles
away!  Wow, I'll be pretty dang old by then :(

Anyone have any tips out there?

--------------The power of an AMIGA is the soul of a 4000!----------------
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Showdown at the OK Corral - Sarfatti vs D. Wollf
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:34:21 GMT

In article <1hh9ucINN50g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>In a post here, Jack Sarfatti states his intention to sue D. Wollf
>and his employer for certain tasteless and obnoxious remarks. I feel 
>this is a bad idea for several reasons. 

Since this guy Sarfatti seems to want to sue the pants off anyone who
says something he doesn't like, my proposal is to retaliate in the
cruelest possible way: Let's simply *ignore* everything he posts
here, given his obvious unwillingness to participate in a spirited
give-and-take.

Jeez, talk about being *mean*! Imagine how he'd feel if he kept posting
paper after paper of hyper-quantum wisdom, and nobody even replied!!!!


First, one would have to show
>damage. This would involve finding anybody who actually took D. Wollf's
>smartass remarks seriously. Good luck. Secondly, one of the really valuable

Unfortunately, it is very expensive to defend against even *worthless*
lawsuits. Just ask Randi.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic
From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson)
Subject: Re: Repost of Truzzi Lecture:  How to Handle Scientific "Unorthodoxy"
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: skeptics CSICOP debunkers orthodoxy anomalies
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:48:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.150229.9424@mail.cornell.edu> phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart) writes:
[stuff deleted, because only the throwaway in Dave's last line interests me]

>Now, does this mean that everything with a "new" explanation is a major breakthrough?
>Obviously not.  In fact, if the past is any guide, it's more often spurious science
>or just plain wrong.
>
>And why doesn't telepathy follow the inverse square law?

What data are available _suggest_ that some anomalous correlations of
human intention do not follow the inverse square law, although many
feel, even believe deeply, that the evidence for anything like telepathy
is weak.  I may be over-interpreting your question, but it represents
one or the reasons for skepticism, that is, because the effects in
anomalies experiments don't conform to this accepted law of physics, the
skeptic may conclude that the effects are spurious.  In the case of data
produced in well controlled experiments, such an approach is
unwarranted, not least because it assumes the data are defective rather
than the (implicit) theory.  A more rational approach requires a search for
accomodation, which may ultimately require a new (or more likely a
broadened) theoretical model. 

In any case, at this point, there is nothing much in the way
of an explanation for the findings of relevant experimental research.
It is worth noting that professional students of anomalies do not, in
general, consider the transfer of information documented in the
experiments to be energetic in principle, in part because of this
apparent mismatch with the well-established inverse square law.

Roger

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: rsf1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Robert S. Fritzius)
Subject: Future causes NOT
Keywords: advanced potentials, Ritz, Einstein
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:18:52 GMT

Reference <BzyExK.KxF@well.sf.ca.us> sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti)

In paragraph 5 of Jack Sarfatti's Feynman 42 QED... post, there is the
statement:
 
>Forbidding future causes really violates special relativity -
>though Einstin of course forbade future cause...
 
It appears that Jack got this a bit out of kilter.
 
There's an article in Physics Essays (vol 3, No. 4, 1990) titled "The
Ritz-Einstein Agreement to Disagree" which is about a battle dealing with
Einstein's steadfast defense of future cause (advanced potentials) in the
face of Ritz's onslaught for a new kind of electrodynamics and
thermodynamics in which only retarded effects (past cause) exist.
 
When Wheeler and Feynman called on Einstein, while laying the groundwork
for their (1945) time symmetric absorber theory, Einstein referred them to
his running battle with Ritz, but they apparently felt that Ritz's
(surely-wrong) viewpoint had had met a proper peer review fate, not knowing
that Ritz (age 31) died shortly after the battle.
 
In private correspondence (1991), Wheeler informed me that until receiving
a copy of the Ritz-Einstein article, mentioned above, he had not been aware
that Ritz had died so young.
 
Robert S. Fritzius  rsf1@Ra.MsState.Edu
 
 

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Repost of Truzzi Lecture:  How to Handle Scientific "Unorthodoxy"
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:56:42 GMT

phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart) writes:
: 
: And why doesn't telepathy follow the inverse square law?
: 

But it does!  The effect at distance D1 is E, and the effect at
distance D2 is:
                         
                    D1^2
               E * -------                         (1)
                    D2^2

provided that

                  E = 0                            (2)

When somebody can product a non-zero value for E, then we'll worry
about equation (2).

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  ich bin in einem
Rosemount Inc.                                |dusenjet ins jahr 53 vor
                                              |chr...  ich lande im antiken
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |Rom...  einige gladiatoren
                                              |spielen scrabble...  ich
                                              |rieche PIZZA...
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: van@eff.org (Gerard Van der Leun)
Subject: Re: re:Showdown at the OK Corral
Followup-To: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Organization: EFF
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:15:59 GMT

In article <C0DIrC.2J0@well.sf.ca.us>, sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack
Sarfatti) wrote:
> 
> To the various bozos who still did not catch on - it was a joke. A satire
> using the classic crackpot style that Wolff affected when he put the CAPs
> in.

Easy for you to say, Jack. But I suspect most people in the groups you
post in will know it for what it was. However, if you want to say it was
a joke that's your right. I trust the feedback you've received over this
incident will temper your tendency to rant in the future.
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Wavelets, coherent states and complex spacetimes.
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:41:47 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Excerpts from netnews.sci.physics: 7-Jan-93 Wavelets, coherent states
a.. Jack Sarfatti@well.sf.ca (3400)

> "...complex spacetime as a unification of spacetime and classical phase
> space ... relativistic coherent states ... tube domains in axiomatic
> quantum field theory ... result from analytic continuation of .. vacuum
> expectation values ... to complex spacetime .... these tube domains ....
> have a direct physical interpretation as extended classical phase spaces
> .... relativistic coherent states are similar to wavelets .... coherent
> states and time-frequency localization ... windowed Fourier transforms and
> wavelet transforms ... frames ... discrete and continuous resolutions of
> unity ... reproducing kernel .. 

I would recommend changing the subject line to "Incoherent states." 

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic