HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rnbritta@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD NEIL BRITTAIN)
Subject: Women's Self-Defense Classes
Originator: rnbritta@c00126-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: rnbritta@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD NEIL BRITTAIN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:43:36 GMT


I would like to know if any of the readers on this network have instructed or 
of any self-defense classes just for women that are being taught at colleges 
or universities in the United States.  I was the instructor of such a class
at Appalachian State U. before transferring to NCSU.  I was told that many
universities teach karate and such as p.e. courses but not SD courses!
Please let me know if you were involved in an SD class in any manner(i.e. 
instructor, student, etc.)  I would be interested in knowing what was taught
and how successful it was.  Thank you, 
                                             Neil Brittain
From: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Sources for "The Heart of Karate-Do"
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:03:41 GMT
Reply-To: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

Someone recently mailed me about problems in getting a copy of Egami's
book, "The Heart of Karate-Do".  Unfortunately my mailer went silly
and I couldn't email a reply.

I bought the book in a shop in London.   Also, a shop in Glasgow
said they could order it for me no problem.  THese suggest that the book is
fairly obtainable through Martial-Arts shops.

However, you can get it by mail order from the Magazine:

"Terry O'Neil's: FIGHTING ARTS INTERNATIONAL".

I don't know if you can get that it the US.  (Methinks the "INTERNATIONAL" is
more wishful thinking on their part rather than actual fact - who knows).

IF you are really stuck, and want to mail order from the UK, then I can get the
address of the above magazine.  OK?

tommy
From: natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:39:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Judo, nipple piercing, and non-metallic 'jewelry'
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


Maybe you should re-post to rec.bodyart, tats and piercing are 
discussed there.  Jewerly should never be worn in the dojo,
damage to you, your classmates, and your jewerly is too easy.
   I have seen people keep ear piercing's open with a broom 
straw shaft,  (not me!!):o.   Our sensei is always reminding 
me to remove my earings and forgets the kid who has 9 in one
ear and 3 in the other (you put less in the Phone ear). oh well
                  Good Luck
                       Natalie

_____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                            |
| Natalie Schuchard aka: Nate   mail stop : 270                              |
| HP - LSID                          at&t : (206) 335-2929                   |
| 8600 Soper Hill Road             hpdesk : NATALIE_SCHUCHARD/HPA100/UX      |
| Everett, WA 98205-1298             hpux : hplabs!hp-pcd!hplsla!natalies    |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
                           Free Tibet!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Reply-To: joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:29:20 GMT


In reply to the debate about whether the Model Mugger is allowed to
hit back:

I am a graduate of the basics course of Model Mugging.  During the
practice scenarios, the "muggers" acted out some typical attacks --
and those included grabbing the women's legs and arms, sometimes
seizing them from behind and lifting them into the air...I remember
one of my classmates had a long ponytail, and the mugger yanked it
back, so that she had to fight him with her head painfully pulled back.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.151739.1428@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>There's a paradox in women's self defense.  Typcially being on the
>disadvantaged side of the classic mismatch (being both shorter of limbs
>and less physically powerful in most cases), women (especially non-martial
>artists) who want to train to defend themselves to fight hand-to-hand can't 
>stress outfighting entirely because they'll be at the disadvantage due to 
>their shorter arms, and they can't stress infighting, because their lesser
>physical strength becomes a problem. 

Not to suggest a heresy on rec.matrtial-arts, but I would think a 
pistol would be the most viable solution to this paradox.

                                                       Frank Crary
                                                       CU Boulder

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Tai Chi Push Hands
Summary: Open workout in Boston area
Keywords: Tai Chi, push hands, Boston
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:36:02 GMT

Hi there, Tai Chi practitioners!  A couple of buddies and I have a small Tai
Chi class at a church in the Boston area.  The "school" was started by one of
us about 12 years ago. 

About 2 years ago, we decided to take advantage of some extra space in the 
church, and have been sponsoring an open Push Hands workout there.  Practition-
ers from all over Boston and New England have joined us, as well as people
from other parts of the US, Canada and Hungary.  You are invited to participate
as well, if you are going to be in the vicinity at some point.

There is no "teacher" - it is not a class, just a chance to practice with 
people from other schools.  The range of ability is novice to expert (two
Push Hands Competition Champions have dropped in at one time or another).  To
cover expenses of renting space, we charge $3 ($2 if more than 10 are there,
which is not too uncommon).

The atmosphere is very positive; one of learning and having fun. [We'd like to
keep it that way.  No challenges, fights, out-to-prove-something-episodes, and
the like are welcome.  (For example, non-Tai Chi'ers, if you come there to say 
"Tai Chi is not a martial art!  Prove that you can defend yourself!" you are 
likely to encounter smiles and a reply like "You're right," rather than the 
satisfaction you came there for.)]  Philosophies ranging from 'light and lively
energy exchange' to 'get in the fray and battle it out' can be found, and one
of the most common experiences is finding that you are having a tough time with
someone who's approach "shouldn't work."  It's an eye-opener!

For more information, and time/directions, email me at "ras@athena.mit.edu", or
call me at (617) 253-2944.  We're looking forward to pushing with you!



	Rich Shandross
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 6 Sep 92 06:25:28 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <lafi8lINNa3o@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:
>If a Kiai disconcerts, or distracts an opponent, then the opponent is
>not well trained.

I don't think this is necessarily true.  There are techniques in aikido,
hsing i, ninjutsu (I think), and probably other arts in which the voice can
be used as a kind of weapon.  I think you need to be at a fairly high level
to resist the effects, and of course, you need to be at a pretty high level
in order to use the voice as a weapon with any hope of success.

Al
From: dccarr@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (david.c.carr)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wrestling and God
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:05:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From article <1992Sep10.042223.9811@craycos.com>, by sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi):
	[snipped wrestling/judo/gracie bits]

> God help us...here we go AGAIN!

Alas, she only helps those who help themselves.
(And I don't think she reads netnews.)

:-)


Dave Carr
isshin shorinji ryu okinawa te
ronin, wa bun bushi no michi
"Don't push the river, but don't pull no punches."
david.c.carr@att.com
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Date: 10 Sep 1992 20:19:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 22906@access.digex.com, cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>
>3. If you took american boxing and added kicks
>to it, wouldnt it just, eventually, evolve into
>something like Thai kickboxing?   Or not?

When  kick-boxing pro-tourneys first started in the USA,
what happened was a lot of boxers who couldn't make it
in the pro-boxing arena went into the kick-boxing tourneys.
The better ones started to clean up.  A three kick minimum
was added to the rules, to stop boxers from slugging their
way to victory.  You saw some very poor, half- attempts at
kick for a while.  

Now, the kick-boxers fighting are of such a good quaility, that
the three kick rules usually isn't needed.  A guy who couldn't
cut it in boxing, wouldn't be able to cut it in kick-boxing either.

Not that this really answers your question...

	-Garth




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: kheldar@iastate.edu (Gregory E Swanson)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:52:53 GMT

In <1992Sep10.130015.4425@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:

>In article <KRYSTEK.92Sep8093654@alcor.bms.com> krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek) writes:
>>
>>Just saw a Van Damne movie, Double Impact.  He plays two brothers separated
>>when the were a year old.  One grows up in the USA in California and the other
>>on the streets in Hong Kong.  All in all I liked the movie.  And I still think
>>he has a great  stretch, I just wonder can he really fight.....
>>
>>Anyone know if Van Damne holds a rank in any style (I am sure some style) and
>>if he ever competed?

>I have an interview with him in a Black Belt magazine where he claims
>to have won a fairly major kickboxing tournament under a different name in 
>Europe.  Apparently he changed his name for movies.  Personally I am 
>skeptical.  

>>thanks
>>stan


>-- 
>Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
>  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths 

Van Damme's real name was Van Varenburg, or something similar.  He changed
it for some publicity reason.
He WAS, however, a kickboxing champion in Europe at one time and holds belt in Kung fu for sure but I'm not sure what else.

Show some respect.

Greg Swanson     Honourable Student - Chung Kim's Black Belt Academy
  "If a man refuses to be humbled - destroy him."  - Kickboxer
OB
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:33:43 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1992Sep3.203350.5825@bnrmtl.bnr.ca>, carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca 
   (Peter Carbon) writes:
> [...] Is it useful to be vocal when sparring, i.e.
> utter a fierce kiai as you strike or grunt as you block ?
>
Well, sure, it _CAN_ be useful, as a punch or a kick can be useful, but
like a punch or a kick, it has its place. Sometimes one or the other
is called for...

>  Having practised Goju Ryu karate I know that this style does introduce
> kiais in its forms and practitioners are encouraged to do so while spar-
> ring also. The style I practise now, Shorinjiryu Kenkokan, Does not have
> this kind of vocal component and my senseis seem to think that it is a
> waste of energy to utter kiais when fighting.
>
You shouldn't be yelling every time you turn around, mind you. One of the
"traditional" aspects of a kiai is that it's a 'shout of triumph', 
something done when in conjunction with a good, clear shot. There's 
several bits of what (folk)lore associated with kiais. The name is supposed
to translate loosely as "spirit shout". This should give you some insight
into the technique (did I forget to mention kiai _is_ a technique?). It is 
said some masters could kill small animals merely with their kiai. A good
kiai is supposed to raise the hairs on the back of your neck, be almost
gutteral, animal-like. There are silent kiais. Then there's the "kiai of 
the eyes"...
 
>  Now I've tried both ways and it does seem more tiring to kiai when you
> strike even though it may disconcert your opponent at first and give
> you a slight advantage. It could be that there is some kind of subtlety
> about kiais that I am missing however.
>
I would suspect more breath control is needed for this "tiring" aspect
you mention. You might have to elaborate as I'm not certain my 
interpretation of this is what you intend.

Of more interest to me, besides yelling like a banshee, is the sort of
breathing sounds made during sparring (which brings up breath control
again). Overly loud or obvious inhaling right a technique is a worse
telegraph than any physical motion you could do. 

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
"Wie gutt es ist, dass kein mensch weiss: Dass ich Rumpestilskin heisst!"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: A little on self defense...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:53:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.124534.21936@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>	I would agree.  Boxing, karate, etc are nice hobbies, but they
>>are just recreation.  They cannot hope to make up the difference between 
>>115 and 230 lbs, nor between one person and a group of thugs.
>
>I disagree most strongly to this statement.  A lot of martial arts
>can actually use the attacker's extra weight against them (e.g Aikido,
>Ninjutsu).  

I think I'd argue that such arts maximize your chances.  They do not
mystically turn the opponent's weight into a disadvantage.  If you 
are big enough, you can stop people from doing jointlocks and throws
on you.  I've done it a lot, and I'm not that big.  And before anybody
flames me for not cooperating with my partner, we were practicing
to see what would really work on a larger opponent, and yes, kicking
or punching the person first would increase your chances (but then
again, I often have smaller people bounce off me when they kick me;
I don't move).

>Even at my old TKD class we used to regularly train against
>multiple opponents.  

We do the same thing, but again this just helps your chances.
Fighting multiple opponents is always more dangerous than a 
single opponent, if only because you can't keep your eyes on
all of them.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Too Silent, Too Vocal
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:08:19 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <lb257cINN65u@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Interesting, yet another type...
>When we kiai, it is a very violent expulsion of breath, leaving almost
>non in the lungs, when you inhale after kiai, it is also almost violent
>because the lungs have no air...
>When we breath for combat, it is very diffent..inhale is quick, exhale
>a bit longer...all very relaxed.
>Attacks or defense can be donr inhaling or exhaling, but most power is
>generated when exhaling, and therefore preferred.  For Max power..Kiai,
>all followup blows are done with little to no air in lungs.
>
    As another point of reference you can think of using the kia to
    connect your arms to your torso and your legs.  Think of the 
    body as a big bag of air. (It shouldn't be hard for some of us 
    long winded types :-)).  The kia does not trail off at the end
    but rather culmunates with a pressurizing finish.  The tongue
    closes off the exhale in the top of your mouth and the pressure comes
    from stomach contraction.  This solidifies your body and allows
    you to transfer power from the floor to you enemy via your weapon
    (hand or sword),arms, torso and legs.  Try this while hitting
    the heavy bag.  Inhale and exhale at different points of the actual
    hit.  You should see different levels of impact power.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: kicking from the ground
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:06:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.144246.18504@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>In one of the "John Gilbey" books, I recall that there is a story
>about a woman who was accosted by a judoka.  Following Bobby
>Knight's infamous advice, she decided to lie back and enjoy it...

Just for the record, I hope you know he didn't actually say this
(or anything to that effect...)

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: kicking from the ground
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:40:35 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep10.210434.18974@worldbank.org> LGOODIN@WORLDBANK.ORG (Laura Goodin) writes:
>> but I don't understand the "ground is her strongest position" part at all.
>the ground, with my feet towards my attacker, I have my legs -- which, for
>the average woman, are five times stronger than her arms -- to use on his
>ankles, shins, and especially knees.  

	Why not just stay _standing_ and kick?  Is it because it's harder
to kick when standing?

>If he smothers my kicks and ends up with his face near my hands, I can do
>eyestrikes, palmheels, or other strikes to the face and head.

	What if he moves past your legs and comes in from the side?  Picture
him brushing your legs aside and keeping contact moving straight in so that
he comes up on your side with his body against yours.  What I'm trying to 
say is that a person on the ground can defend against a person standing by
attacking the legs, but what if the person standing simply goes to the ground
also?  

>
>More important, if I'm on the ground, I can't fall and get injured; I can't 
>be thrown and get injured, either.

	Joint attacks and chokes are an order of magnitude more effective
in a groundfighting situation.  And you can't run away if you get an opening.

	I don't question the wisdom of learning groundfighting, just 
the idea that that's her best position.
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Too Silent, Too Vocal
Keywords: Too Silent?
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:17:09 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: E

In article lavb12INNa91@west.west.sun.com, garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth) writes:
|>In article 13523@pogo.wv.tek.com, roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud) writes:
|>>In article <lafi8lINNa3o@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:
|>>
|>>>
|>>>	Braething is an important part of fighting.  If Kiai's and
|>>>grunting get in the way of "proper" breathing, then they are not good.
|>>
|>> Kia is taught so that you breath properly.  You exhale while attacking
|>> and get creamed (cannot move) when you inhale.
|>
|>Well, once again showing how different everything is, what you say
|>here doesn't hold true with my art(s).  From where I some from, if you
|>kiai'd every time you attacked (one for each attack), you would end
|>up fainting...we work on mutliple fast attacks...I don't know of too
|>many people who have enough breath to give 4 or 5 good kiais in a row
|>without inhaling...so kiaiing for at each attack would not work for us.
|>
|>	-Garth
|

The idea is that you can not bottle up your emotions and keep the mouth
closed durring practice. (Nor should any MA have a lazy tongue and jaw
durring practice, ever.)  If you have trouble breathing durring continuous
movement, then you need to practice more breathing techniques to not
let your energy escape rapidly.

I learned and found that there is a time and a place for anything, and that
includes vocalization. Durring practice you should keep the mouth slightly
open and your vocal cord relaxed. As you practice your form, sudden 
burst of energys (Qi Ai) are used as enhancment. If you perform your
exercises to the best of your abilities and keep your emotions "inside",
you will shurely hurt your self if not breathing properly.

Makeing sounds is a way of vocalization. "Hip", "Hop","Haa" "Hheey"...It doesn't even matter what you say, "Yyehp", "Aih Hate Coke-o-co Lahai"!,
I Like Toi-yoh-...Dah"! (This is just examples) make any sound you feel
appropriate. This type of sound exhalation is not screamed or yelled. 
Thus is used in a natural way.

Sparring is the same idea, but when fighting, the sudden Qi Ai is an
important tool to be used at the most rightful moment and adds to
the ferocity of the Martial Artist.

There are times that you must be quiet also. Figure it out.

/New Dave
From: zhou@solb1.essex.ac.uk (Zhou J)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Savate and Muay Thai principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Keywords: Precison emphasis vs. Power emphasis in kicks, what about *hands* ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:05:42 GMT
Reply-To: zhou@essex.ac.uk (Zhou J)
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

In article <1992Sep11.205620.6500@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>
>Someone (Joey??  Collins??), a couple of articles back, posted a nice
>article which pointed out some of the basic differences between Muay
>Thai and straight boxing -- for example, a straight-armed push is legal.
>I've also been told that they dislike the uppercut, because throwing it
>leaves them too open to an elbow.  I'd guess there aren't many differences
>other than that, at least in modern Muay Thai (as opposed to the days
>before the gloves).
>
Well, I did not wrote that article but Muay boxing is different from
western boxing not very much in the way the punches are thrown but mostly
in stance, guard and how they deal with clinching.  This is again due to
the fact that Thaiboxers do more than punching.  If the fighter fights
with left lead,  he would protect his left chin with his left shoulder which
is held up very tight against his left ear,  well almost. And his right chin
is protected by his right hand which is also holding up tight. At least this
the stance most Thaiboxers use in the first few rounds when they are still
very slow and prudent,  waiting for the fight to build up.  This stance 
has covered his head(chins especially), his ribs from punches and high kicks
(you will be amazed to see how often they actually use high kicks because
low kicks do not really work very well against a fellow Thaiboxer as he could
just lift up his leg and Bang, you have a shin to shin, no great fun for
the two parties involved. :-)  )  Anyway, this stance is not the most relaxed
and may be awkward but you will learnt to get used to it.  Yes,  they can
hold out their arms to deflect your punches and at the same time they would
try to hold onto your head or shoulders so that they have a better leverage
for a straight knee or just bend the arm for an elbow into the head. I saw
a couple clean knock-outs, with one thigh kick, a couple knees to the ribs, a
upper cut and one roundhouse to the head. A groin kick almost knocked a
Dutchman out but he recovered after all that stretching etc. only to KO
his opponent with the first attack which was a roundhouse to the head. That
kick narrowly missed the referee as he just restarted the fight and went
straightinto the head of the British.  He fell like a bag of potatos,  the
fighters weighed at least 80-90Kg mind you.

cheers

Joey