HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan)
Subject: Re: Forecasting error (was: Stupid statements)
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:40:32 GMT

In article <10017@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.183901.24581@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>  
>hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan) writes:
>
>+ I remember when I was working at WSFO Los Angeles a couple years back, I
>+ did some pretty big boo-boos myself....like taking a telephone call about 
>+ some flooding and going right on the air with it... despite the fact that 
>+ it was as blue of sky and clear of cloud as it gets in LA... seems some
>+ bonehead called us because a nearby water main flooded his house and he
>+ hadn't looked outside (neither did I for that matter!)
>
>I was always told that looking out the window is one of the last
>things one does before issuing that local forecast... :)
>
>James

As a summer intern, we didn't get to put out local forecasts... this was a 
special weather statement. I put a special weather statement on NWR then 
came out of the radio room... which was windowless, and looked and saw blue
sky.

HOWEVER! (Large caveat here!) I was just over 18 at the time and had only 
completed one year of meteorology, and having no idea of what the conditions
were in the particular area (some 50+ miles away) I figured it would be better
off to go on just in case. (At least I didn't tone alert and do a flash flood
warning!)

Bryan
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: green house versus global warming
Keywords: greenhouse global warming CO2
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:36:20 GMT
Organization: NSSL

In article <norris.712598341@aquifer.geology.uiuc.edu> norris@aquifer.geology.uiuc.edu (Chuck Norris) writes:
>skaggs@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Gary Skaggs) writes:
>
>>In article <norris.712533096@aquifer.geology.uiuc.edu> norris@aquifer.geology.uiuc.edu (Chuck Norris) writes:
>>>Diurnal temperature range at Champaign IL has steadily decreased over the 100+
>>>years of weather records.
>
>>I'm not sure where the instruments are in Champaign, but the urban heat
>>island is a known effect in other places.
>
>Urban heat is certainly a potential problem, but PROBABLY not a significant
>one here.  The instruments have remained in the same open location, with
>the same distance from the same campus buildings, at the edge of town
>near the University farms for most of their history and a move several
>years ago actually into the country doesn't appear to have made difference
>in trend or provided a step shift.  Also, the entire urban spread here
>has been to a population of about 58,000 (100,000? if Urbana to the east
>is included), so it's not a Phoenix type situation, at least not obviously.

I was under the impression that the Illinois State Water Survey's recording 
site was at Morrow Plots on the university campus until just a few
years ago (1987 +/- 1, I think).  One of the reasons for building the under-
graduate library underground was to protect the Plots and the associated 
observing site.  Anecdotally, the winter after the move to south of
town produced a few 'suspicious' lows.  It seemed a tragedy to move a 
site that had been in operation for ~100 years.  

Urban heat island effects have been noticed in locations with populations
on the order of 5000.  There was a paper by Karl et al. in either J. 
Geophys. Res. or Geophys. Res. Lett. in the late '80s or 1990 concerning
this.  

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks (NSSL, Norman, OK) hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
Officially self-employed, self-speaking
Andres Galarraga (Through 30 July)  .228 BA  .379 SLG  .271 OBA
21 H away from .300  7 HBP  5 BB
From: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: environmental science careers
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:39:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.92110
Reply-To: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Followup-To: sci.environment
Organization: Boston University

Sunce this worked well for me, my colleague will try a posting....

attenion environmental scientists

My name is Richard Stone and I'm a staffwriter at Science Magazine. The 
reason I'm hailing you is to ask for help with an article on careers in
environmental careers. But I'm hung on a few minor details:

--how do you define "environmental science"
--in what durection is the field moving
--where are the jobs? inn industry? governement? academia?
--are there subdisciplines in envir. science that are vastly
undersatffed or overstaffed.

I'm interested in hearing your answers to these and any others questions
I've neglected to ask. please call me ASAP at 202-326-6593 or fax me reply
at 202-371-9227. You can also email a friend of mine at
 jstravis@bu-pub.bu.edu

Thanks for the help and feel free to circulate this among your colleagues
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:04:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz (Lance Andrewes) writes:

>Location of lightning is done by radio direction finding.  Several
>stations are required to receive the burst of "static".  I don't
>know frequency present systems operate on, but 9kHz has been used.
>By triangulation, the location of the strike can be determined over
>a range of about 2000km.  Obviously, the accuracy will be dependent
>on the number of receiving stations, and the range.

I've been thinking about a different design for lightning location
detection.  My approach would use a wideband receiver at 611 MHz
that has a bandwidth of 2 to 3 MHz.  The antennae would be omni
directional.  A clock will be syncronized at each receive site to
tag the data samples taken from the detection of a noise burst.
A central computer would match up the signature waveforms and
compare timings.  Then based on the difference in timing between
each site's reception, the location can be estimated.  The accuracy
would be based on the bandwidth resolution of the waveform signature
of each strike.

At 9 kHz, you have to depend on received directionality.  If you have
only a few sites, you lose resolution at the greater distances the
fewer sites have to deal with.  Each site also has to have multiple
discreet direction antenna, since you don't have the time to turn
a signal notch antenna around to find the direction as you would with
a continuous wave (ordinary signal direction finding).

While RF at 611 MHz from lightning is weaker, so are man made sources
of RF (why 611 MHz was chosen).  This frequency is reserved for radio
astronomy purposes.
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2564 sci.environment:9911 sci.geo.geology:1712
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment,sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: FAQ Sea Level, Ice, and Greenhouses
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:38:57 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Jul16.224733.1271@grebyn.com> rmg3@grebyn.com (Robert Grumbine) writes:
>
[excellent post, one observation though]
>
>  These mechanisms set up the possibility for an accelerating collapse 
>of the ice sheet.  Namely, this excess ablation lowers the ice sheet 
>in that region.  Since the lower elevations are even warmer, the 
>ablation rate increases further.  In the mean time, the ice sheet tries 
>to flow so as to fill in the depression (ice is a fluid).  This 
>lowers the top of the ice sheet and decreases the accumulation.  
>Together, the accumulation is decreased and the ablation is increased.  
>This is the elevation-ablation feedback.  It is believed to be 
>operating in Greenland already.  Under present climatic conditions, 
>the Greenland ice cap could not be regrown.  It is simply too warm 
>there.  (Odd thought for Greenland, I know, but glaciologists have 
>unusual standards).

There is presently on the Greenland ice sheet the third expedition
to recover B17 and P38 aircraft that were forced to land there during
a ferry flight in WWII. They have dug down to, and recovered, a P38.
They report that the aircraft was under 260 feet of ice that had
accumulated in the last 50 years. This may be an atypical location,
or some other mechanism may be at play, but it seems that considerable
accumulation is going on in at least one location in Greenland.

Gary
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Tornado Questions
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:43:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris) asks... 


<1- what was the longest-lasting single tornado?

This is a matter of opinion, as many long track tornadoes once thought to 
have been on the ground continuously are now thought to have skipped a bit,
or even dropped from different wall clouds. Woodward ('47), The Great Tri-
State (Missouri/Illinois/Indiana -1926? I'm going on w/o references), and 
several others with long tracks are now thought to be the work of more than
on tornado, and a lot of the damage from the Tri-State is thought to have
actually resulted from extreme downbursts.  'Officially', I think the
Woodward tornado was the longest, with a path of about 250??? miles, but 
since it occurred at night across the lone plains (Texas Panhandle, NW 
Oklahoma, and S Kansas), no one can be sure if it was a single tornado.  As
for longest lasting tornado in terms of time, I'm not sure, but the usual
suspects above are up there on the list, as are the same caveats.

2- what was the worst single tornado?

In what terms?  Deaths?  Dollar figure in damage?  Total ground area
affected (path length times avg. width)?  Wind speed?  Length?  Width?
There's too many variables involved to make an attempt at this.

3- what was the worst damage caused by tornadoes?

(Insert your favorite damage analysis anectdotes here)

Once again, what is 'worst'?  Greatest damage inflicted upon a well 
engineered building, or someones outhouse scattered across 20 square miles
of cropland?

It probably is a good thing I'm wingin' it on this response, as I hope
it will generate some kind of meaningful discussion (nudge nudge, say
no more, know what I mean, know what I mean, nudge nudge?)

Marc (The Exile) Foster
OUSOM/OUNNWR

---------------
If people from Dallas are Dallasites, why aren't people from Paris called
Parisites?
From: kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Let's get back to real meteorology
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:28:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

What has happened to this group? We used to have discussions on REAL
issues in meteorology. Lately, it has degraded into flamewars on 
global warming, lawyers, and claire. Furthermore, when I entered a
legitimate met question, I got only one response (which, by the way,
is an excellent reply from Greg Stump). Still, I would like more input.

So, I ask, where are the meteorologists? 

Here is a second try. Below is the original question, with Greg's
response..

In article <Jul14.205325.21671@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick) writes:
>
>It has been observed and captured on video that winds are often
>calm in the vicinity of a tornado. Anyone have an explanation for
>this?
>
>My guess is that you are in a local convergence maximum, and hence a
>local pressure minimum. Therefore, you are in a region of rising
>motion. (note I said local -- obviously the pressure is lowest in the 
>tornado). This IS just a guess, however.

Uh, no.

>From my personal observations, it varies quite dramatically, from being near
calm to nearly 60-70 knot sustained inflow into the mesocyclone.  We were
once inadvertantly caught in front of a large rain-wrapped tornado near
Caney, Oklahoma.  Not once did the winds go calm.  In fact, they steadily
increased until the tornado passed behind us and away from us.

The phrase "the calm before the storm" is not the general rule.  However, 
in instances where it does happen, say preceding a tornado, it could be
the result of the observer being under the rain-free updraft area of the storm,
which is sometimes a stagnation point for wind speed (the air is really going
"up").  This is basically Pat's "guess".  I have also observed on tornadic 
storms regions of enhanced inflow into the mesocyclone (not to be confused 
with "inflow jets" into intense tornadic vortices).  These bands of inflow 
are sometime separated by bands of less wind (and sometimes near calm).

A pre-storm calm may also occur when a thunderstorm is riding above an inversion
layer, which is common in many wintertime warm-air advection episodes in the
Southern Plains.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Stumpf - KB5LMU          \  /  Internet: greg@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu
Forecast Applications Research ||      Phone: (405) 366-0477 FAX: 366-0472
Room 249, National Severe      ||   Disclaimer: I chase to learn, but it's fun!
          Storms Laboratory    ||       "Be Landspouty!"
1313 Halley Circle             ||       "Everyone get good pictures!"
Norman, OK 73069              /  \      "NSSL wants your video!"
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research.careers,misc.jobs.wanted
From: fu@math.orst.edu (Erxuan Fu)
Subject: SeekingJob(8+Years Experience,Meteorology/Math/CS/OCE,C,FORTRAN,Pascal,C++,Sun,IBM,VAX,CRAY,Mac,NeXT),Research Assistant/Computer Programmer
Followup-To: misc.jobs.resumes
Organization: Oregon State University Math Department
Distribution: us
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:25:56 GMT

	fu@math.orst.edu.

Thanks in advance.
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:14:32 GMT
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

In article <711965354snx@lancea.actrix.gen.nz>, lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz (Lance Andrewes) writes:
>walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com writes in article
> <1992Jul23.182055.9108@eplrx7.es.duPont.com>:
>> 
>> The other day, after a heavy round of thunderstorms had passed through
>> the area, the local news showed us a computer screen that they said was
>> from the electric company that showed each strike of lightning. 
>> [text deleted]
>>    My question is, what is this "lightning detection equipment" they are
>> referring too?  Also, they said there had been over 4000 strikes in a
>> one hour period or something like that.  How does this all work?  It looked
>> pretty fascinating to me.  Anyone else have a picture of this kind of thing?
>
>Location of lightning is done by radio direction finding.  Several
>stations are required to receive the burst of "static".  I don't
>know frequency present systems operate on, but 9kHz has been used.
>By triangulation, the location of the strike can be determined over
>a range of about 2000km.  Obviously, the accuracy will be dependent
>on the number of receiving stations, and the range.

Why not just put sensors on the power lines coming out of the generating plants
to sense the induced signal in the transmission lines?  Compare the arrival
times on each of the lines and use your map of the grid to determine location
of the stroke?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: mozer@jed.atmo.arizona.edu (Joel Mozer)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:10:39 GMT
Organization: Department of Atmospheric Physics, University of Arizona

In article <a4hmntd.pdh@netcom.com>, pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard ) writes:
|> lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz (Lance Andrewes) writes:
|> 
|> I've been thinking about a different design for lightning location
|> detection.  My approach would use a wideband receiver at 611 MHz
|> that has a bandwidth of 2 to 3 MHz.  The antennae would be omni
|> directional.  A clock will be syncronized at each receive site to
|> tag the data samples taken from the detection of a noise burst.
|> A central computer would match up the signature waveforms and
|> compare timings.  Then based on the difference in timing between
|> each site's reception, the location can be estimated.  The accuracy
|> would be based on the bandwidth resolution of the waveform signature
|> of each strike.
|> 

This type of a setup has been (and I assume still is) being used in 
lightning location networks.  They are generally refered to as 
"time-of-arrival" sensors.  Such a system is in operation in the 
U.S. called "LPATS."  I don't know what the acronym stands for but the 
devices are manufacutured by Atmospheric Research Systems, Inc in Palm Bay FL.

Actually lightning location methods have evolved quite a bit in recent
years.  Another company, Lightning Location and Protection (Tucson, AZ)
build several types of Direction Finders (DF's) based on the work of
Krider and Uman (as well as others).  They use sophisticated RF wave-shape
algorithms and spectral information to pin down the ranges more precisely.
Some sensors now incorporate optical detection alongside the RF detectors.

A big source of error in getting the direction of cloud-to-ground strikes
is that such channels often extend a fair distance horizontally in the
region between the cloud and the ground.  More accurate results from an
RF detector can be had if one gates the incomming signal so that only 
the lowest tens of meters of the return stroke are seen.  This portion
of the channel is typically quite vertical.

There are now nationwide networks of DF's which allow one to watch 
thunderstorm development around the country.  They are becomming important,
not only for lightning protection, but for forecasting as well.  Many
meteorologists think that it is easier to watch a line of lightning strikes
propagate across a region that it is for radar echos.

BTW - I have no affiliation with either Atmospheric Research Systems or
      Lightning Location and Protection.

-joel
mozer@jed.atmo.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Gustnadoes
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:32:22 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Jul23.152948.19968@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu> stumpf@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Greg Stumpf) writes:
]Is this the infamous "Wicker Vortex"?  I had heard that it was really smoke
]from a fire being stretched into the thunderstorm updraft, and not a true
]vortex.

We had one here 2 years ago (during the SWAMP project) that looked so much
like smoke that the Guadalupe fire department sent out the fire trucks
to what they thought was a plane crash. It was actually a gustnado, and
was observed by the Arizona Thunderstorm Chasers. I was not with the chase
team but saw it anyway. It was quite wierd... it looked like a dark cloud
on the ground, with funnels extending upwards from it and ending in clear air.
It occurred where a strong gust front hit a mountain, and probably also
another gust front, at the same time. Pretty nifty... it was the wierdest
thing I've ever seen also.
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Stupid statements
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:04:33 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Jul29.165214.9680@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>  
mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster) writes:
+ I picked this up off the computer today...
+ 
+ SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT  
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is for public/media consumption.

+ NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORT WORTH TX  
+ 600 PM CDT MON JUL 27 1992  
+   
+ AT 600 PM CDT...STORM SPOTTERS IN THE DALLAS FORT WORTH METROPLEX WERE  
+ OBSERVING A POSSIBLE FUNNEL CLOUD NEAR ARLINGTON MOVING EAST AT 15 MILES  
+                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+ RESIDENTS SHOULD SEEK SHELTER IF THREATENING WEATHER APPROACHES OR A  
+ WARNING IS ISSUED. STAY TUNED TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO FOR ADDITIONAL  
+ STATEMENTS.  

+ the location a little closer than that?  This may also be another case
+ of an inexperienced intern writing statements (not to say I have a lot
+ of experience... I don't write 'em, just broadcast 'em).
+ 
+ Thoughts?  Ideas? 

As far as I can tell, it's a "there maybe something happening, but no one
has bothered to fully inform us yet. Use yer head, and duck if something
big&ugly is coming at you."

James - you can't say what you don't know
From: leuthold@atmo1.atmo.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:49:17 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Atmospheric Sciences

In article <1992Jul23.182055.9108@eplrx7.es.duPont.com>, walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) writes:
>    My question is, what is this "lightning detection equipment" they are
> referring too?  Also, they said there had been over 4000 strikes in a
> one hour period or something like that.  How does this all work?  It looked
> pretty fascinating to me.  Anyone else have a picture of this kind of thing?
> 
> Scott
> ******************************************************
> Scott C. Walker
> walkersc@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

	It is most likely the LLP National Network.  Lightning Location and 
Protection is a company in Tucson, AZ that produces sensors that detect
lightning.  The National Network is a collection of these sensors that was
initially funded by EPRI (Electrical Power Research Institute) for the east
and BLM for the west.  LLP now has combined the two networks (plus a small
one in OK and another in Canada) and distributes the data to customers.  
	The sensors work by determining the direction to a strike by magnetic
induction (Faraday's law).  Then using the direction from 2 or more stations
you can triangulate the location.  The strike point can then be plotted on
a computer screen.   We have a local network here at the University.  Since
we are surrounded by Mtns, radar is of limited use-we use the lightning
network instead.
Mike

leuthold@atmo1.atmo.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Subject: Re: "Bay Fog" Blankets the Earth
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:17:50 GMT

In article <1466900269@igc.org> cgilbert@igc.org (Claire Gilbert) writes:
>
>                      Material herein from
>         _Blazing Tattles_, Vol. 1, Issue 12, July 1992.
>                 Published by Claire W. Gilbert
>
>                  "BAY FOG" BLANKETS THE EARTH
>
>     Since March of 1991, I have been yapping about the white skies
>and ground level haze which produces effects around streetlights
>and headlamps.  I admit that the latter affects are not easily
>discernable, and I don't know why some people can see them and some
>people can't.  I thought the effects were from the oil well fires
>in Kuwait, but they haven't gone away. 

      [stuff deleted]

>     My hunch is that it is the unburned hydrocarbons evaporating
>from the billions of gallons of crude sitting on the desert floor
>in Kuwaiti (and Iraqi?) oil lakes.

      Could be the pixies dancing in your head.  

      Just a thought ...

                              dale bass



--
C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926