HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: siding options?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:04:26 GMT

In article <lchp3tINNr29@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu> langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston) writes:

>> I could go on for quite some time, but I shall simply repeat at this
>> point that anything's better than vinyl siding!
>
>perhaps you've simply had a bad experience -- mileage varies
>with manufacturer and installer

You still don't understand. The manufacturer and installer have nothing
to do with it.

My point still is that, no matter who does it or how well it's done, it
cannot be repaired or patched after about five or ten years. Even if the
manufacturer is still in business (like Sears), they don't make the same
styles, so you can't just buy a replacement piece. This basically means
that you can't change the exterior of the house AT ALL! At least not
without a great deal of work.

If you NEVER expect to change anything about the outside of your house
for as long as it stands, put up vinyl. Otherwise, there'll be hell to
pay.

My *siding* is in fine shape. All my problems with it are caused by the
fact that many of the other things attached to the house are *not* in
good shape. I can't replace them, however, because the siding is cut to
fit those items, and I can't get more of the siding.

The stuff is like assembler language. It makes nice, fast, custom fit
stuff, but God help you if you ever have to change it.

It gets worse if you buy the house with the siding on it. If you know
how to find out who made it, please let me know, cause I haven't been
able to so far.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | If God had meant for man to fly, he'd have
                    | given him more money.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jjh@col.hp.com (Jeff Haeffele-x3570)
Subject: Re: Propane regulator failure?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:09:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

I once had a problem with water getting up into a regulator
through the vent hole.  When ever it got below freezing the
regulator wouldn't open up.  Great timing, huh?
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Safety in my home (was: Killing Burglars)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 02:00:16 EDT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

byron@homer.hsc.ucalgary.ca (Byron Draudson) writes:

> Well, Alberta is NOT a paradise of safety.  About a week ago, a
> 40 year old doctor/husband/father of four was fatally stabbed as
> he struggled with a 21 year old burglar at 4 am in his mid-upper
> class home near the university.  Makes you _really_ wonder just
> how safe you are in your own home...

From what I've read countries with strict gun control like England
and Canada have a much higher percentage of burglaries of occupied
dwellings than the U.S. In the U.S. something like 10% of burglaries
occur when someone is home, while in Canada and the U.K. it is over
40%. That is not to say that their overall burglary rates aren't
lower.


(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: hfunk@src.honeywell.com (Harry Funk)
Subject: Re: Attaching Stud Wall to Concrete
Reply-To: hfunk@src.honeywell.com (Harry Funk)
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:32:08 GMT

Note:  I've cut the cross-post to rec.woodworking, since it's tough to see
how this is applicable.

In article <1992Sep25.195940.23351@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
>In article <92269.131309DMEJJ@CUNYVM.BITNET> <DMEJJ@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>
>>I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice on this topic.  I am paneling
>>my basement soon.  The walls and floor are concrete.  The walls are a bit
>
>In addition to the two methods you mentioned, there is a third way.
>You can drill a 1/4" hole through the 2x4 sill into the concrete with
>a hammer drill. Then drive two 16d nails into the hole simultaneously.
>
>Anyway, I've used all three methods. The impact driver is the easiest.
>The use of "red heads", which is a trade name for the type of fasteners
>you describe (I can't remember the generic name either) is the most
>secure.

[stuff deleted]

>I have used several types of these, and I recommend the type that has a
>cone shaped end with a ring around it. They also make a type with a split
>shank and a cone shaped wedge. This type expands as it's driven in. The
>first type expands as pressure is put on it to pull it out.

I don't think we're talking about the same things here.  I think the things
you're describing, George, are lead anchors (which for the most part are no
longer made of lead).  They're made to take machine bolts or sheet metal
screws, and expand to fill the hole, using the compressive strength of the
concrete to hold the fastener in place.  I think the fasteners that Daniel
is talking about are "tapcon" screws, which look a lot like hex-head sheet
metal screws with a deeper thread.  They drive directly into the masonry
(typically the mortar joint).  I remember them being green, having a dual
thread, and I remember having a great deal of scepticism over how well they
would hold.  I went with lead anchors the last time I had to do it
(mounting shelf brackets to a masonry wall).

H.
--
Harry A. Funk     Principal Research Scientist        Voice: (612)-782-7396
Honeywell Systems and Research Center             FAX:       (612)-782-7438
3660 Technology Dr.   MS:MN65-2500           Inet:  HFunk@src.honeywell.com
Minneapolis, MN 55418 			Bang:  {umn-cs,ems,mmm}!srcsip!funk
From: ajeans@hplred.HP.COM (Albert Jeans)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Drywall behind tile in shower?
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:52:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA

I'm no expert, but here's what I learned from doing a tub enclosure:

>>1. Is it possible to remove tile from blueboard drywall without 
>>   destroying the tiles so I can re-use 'em?

Probably not. You'll find that it's tough enough just to remove the tile period.

>>2. What is the distinction between blueboard and Du-roc?  The shower
>>   presently has blueboard in it with the tile attached to the blueboard.
>>   I read somewhere recently that you should really only use Du-roc
>>   behind tile, especially in a shower.  Why?  The article I read referred to
>>   Du-roc generically as 'cement board'.  Was the builder just being cheap
>>   when he used blueboard instead of cement board?
Blueboard or greenboard is sheetrock with a waterproof coating on it. Du-roc
or Glascrete is concrete with fiberglass mesh faces. The former can still be
damaged by water since moisture can still permeate the coating, while the latter
is truly unaffected by water.

>>3. What's the proper orientation for drywall behind tile?  Does it matter?
>>   i.e., normally, drywall is installed vertically with the tapered edges
>>   running up and down.  In a shower environment, does it make better
>>   sense to run the drywall (or cement board) horizontally?  That way
>>   there would be no vertical seam behind the tile, just the horizontal
>>   seam 4' up from the floor.  The shower stall is rectangular.

I don't think it matters much. Just try to minimize the number of seams.

>>4. Assuming the worst (remove all tile and the drywall behind it, replacing
>>   the drywall with cement board), how do I tape the seam where the  cement
>>   board meets the existing drywall above the tile field?  That is, the tile
>>   field doesn't go all the way to the ceiling; there is a band of textured
>>   drywall about 18" high above the tile.  In order to avoid messing with
>>   the joint between the 18" band and the ceiling I'd prefer to leave the
>>   band where it is and butt the cement board up to it.  But that'd be
>>   above the tile field, so how do I tape that joint?

I found this to be a bit of a problem too. The cement board tends to be quite
rough and little particles come off, making it difficult to make a good smooth
joint. I did the best I could with joint compound and it turned out okay.

There are some good books out there on tiling which will help you with a lot
of the details (and there are a lot!).
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Furnace recommended!
Keywords: Furnace
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:33:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct1.200313.27745@mr.med.ge.com> nguyen@mr.med.ge.com (Dominic Nguyen 4-6604 MRCE) writes:
>We bought a house a year ago and we're thinking replace the existing
>furnace with a higher efficiency.  Our current furnace is about 15
>years old and probably at 70% efficiency (our estimate).
>
>We're looking for some recommendation in what brand names unit to
>buy that can give us above 90% efficiency (the higer the better).
 
On a related note, our new house has a quaint arrangement where the
original house has steam heat and the upstairs addition has baseboard
hot water heat. To get the water, they put a tap on the boiler and a
pump to send it up there. It's a bit Rube Goldberg in appearance, but
apparently works.
 
Are there gas boilers designed specifically to handle this kind of
hybrid system?
 
Greg
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Subject: Re: siding options?
Originator: mja@hercules
Reply-To: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:49:42 GMT


In article <1992Sep30.120135.20003@brtph560.bnr.ca>, JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:
|> In article <wZZVRB2w161w@cdthq.UUCP> Gary Heston, gary@cdthq.UUCP writes:
|> >> Hello!  My wife and I are living in a very old wooden house (it was
|> built in
|> >> the 1870s).  Paint does not last very long on this beast.  
|> 
|> My $0.02:  please don't put vinyl on a 1870's house!  8 years is
|> reasonable for repainting, depending on where you are in the US.  
|> 
|> Vinyl looks like what it is:  plastic.  Consider the noise, the lack of
|> insulation, and the denting possibilities (I don't care what the
|> commercials show, the stuff dents and pings easily).  If you truly want
|> to side your house with something other than wooden clapboards, consider
|> the new oriented strand board.  It is a "Masonite-like" siding made of
|> oriented strands of wood, impregnated with paint and fire resistant
|> chemicals. Unlike the basic Masonite siding, it is textured to look like
|> wood.  I am using Masonite as the generic term, like Kleenex or Coke;
|> there are other companies.
|> 
|> My vote :  keep painting  ('course, it ain't my money or my house)
|> JB

I have seen this stuff in Holland and it is great. It is very hard
and durable. The outer skin is vynal-like but not soft. Over there
it comes textured and shaded if desired. The pieces inter-lock and
the outer waterproof surface "wraps" around the edges so the stuff
can be run horizontally or vertically. It is very difficult to tell
the difference between it and real wood clapboards. The only problem
is it is in Europe. I looked into finding similar material here in 
the states and was disappointed. The stuff I found in the states
(better quality stuff may exist) did not interlock, had a much
thinner protective surface that usually only comes primed - you still
have to paint it. Now maybe I didn't look hard enough. 
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Amato  DoD#0639 | "If pro is the opposite of con,       |
| mja@philabs.philips.com | then what is Congress"? - Will Rogers |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Taking off old plaster
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:16:32 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Hi,

Any tips on how to take off old plaster?


Thanks, Bo
From: mcnamara@vixvax.mgi.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Installing Hardwood Floor - DIY?
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:54:50 GMT
Organization: Management Graphics, Inc.

In article <Bv3K87.GE4@mail.boi.hp.com
>, hess@boi.hp.com (Kevin C. Hess) writes:
> As long as you have access to a nailer for T&G flooring, a *power* mitre saw,
> and possibly a pneumatic finish nailer, you can do it!  Figure on doing 5 to
> 10 sp ft an hour for laying the floor, 20 sq ft an hour to finish it.  Avoid
> any diagonal borders (they are a real pain to make look good).
> 

	These hourly rates are what it took professionals to install and
finish wood floors for me.  I would assume that first-time installers 
would take 50-100% more time than this.
	One of the things they did was to level the sub-floor after
the plywood beneath our carpet was removed.  This takes a good grinder.
Another thing they are doing is creating the reducers to go between
our tile floors and the hardwood, and from the hardwood to the fireplace.
	You *may* want to consider vapor barrier underneath the floor.
My installer only does it when the floor is over crawl space, but
at least one ventilation guru recommended we do it between our first
floor and basement.

						Curt

****************************************************************************
Curt McNamara	(mcnamara@mgi.com)	|"Mistakes are part of the dues
Mgmt. Graphics, Inc.			|one pays for a full life."
1401 E. 79th St.			|	Sophia Loren
Mpls., MN    55425			|
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: siding options?
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
     <1488@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> <lchp3tINNr29@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu>
     <wZZVRB2w161w@cdthq.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:01:35 GMT

In article <wZZVRB2w161w@cdthq.UUCP> Gary Heston, gary@cdthq.UUCP writes:
>> Hello!  My wife and I are living in a very old wooden house (it was
built in
>> the 1870s).  Paint does not last very long on this beast.  

My $0.02:  please don't put vinyl on a 1870's house!  8 years is
reasonable for repainting, depending on where you are in the US.  

Vinyl looks like what it is:  plastic.  Consider the noise, the lack of
insulation, and the denting possibilities (I don't care what the
commercials show, the stuff dents and pings easily).  If you truly want
to side your house with something other than wooden clapboards, consider
the new oriented strand board.  It is a "Masonite-like" siding made of
oriented strands of wood, impregnated with paint and fire resistant
chemicals. Unlike the basic Masonite siding, it is textured to look like
wood.  I am using Masonite as the generic term, like Kleenex or Coke;
there are other companies.

My vote :  keep painting  ('course, it ain't my money or my house)
JB
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: anthony@lpi.liant.com (Anthony Beissner)
Subject: Re: Replacing bad heating element in hw heater
Organization: Liant Software Corp.,  Austin TX
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:46:12 GMT

In article <3855@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>In article <11007@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall) writes:
>>Do any of you do-it-yourselfers happen to know whether or not
>>it is feasible to conemplate replacing a bad heating coil in a hot
>>water heater?  (Feasible in the sense that the old one can be
>>taken out, a replacement can easily be purchased, and this
>>sort of thing occurs on a routine basis).
>
>It's easy, and the elements are easy to obtain.
>	- kill the power to the heater
>	- turn off the water going into the tank.
>	- open all of the hot water faucets in the house.
>	- drain the tank through the drain spigot on the bottom through
>	  a bit of waterhose.
>	- remove the element.  It either unscrews, or is fastened with
>	  bolts.
>	- clean off the hole.
>	- install the new element (will usually have a rubber seal)
>	- turn off all of the faucets
>	- turn on the water and check for leaks.  If there's leaks,
>	  turn off the water, drain again, and reseal.
>	- turn on the power
>	- purge the faucets of air.
>-- 
>Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
>Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
>Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca

Shouldn't you purge the system of air before applying power?  I believe that
if the heating element is turned on with no water around it then it could
burn out again.

-- 
===============================================================================
Just say no to .signature files.        |             anthony@rmc.liant.com
===============================================================================
From: sjb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Stuart Bobb)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:05:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Refi required SURVEY?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house


>    ...I had a survey done 6 years ago for the first loan, and the refi
>    is with the same company... a re-survey would be required if that
>    was necessary by state law to obtain a clear title.... I can't see
>    why a survey is necessary since if I'd sold/bought any of the
>    property in the last 6 years presumably it would turn up in the
>    title search.  If they purpose is to verify that the property is
>    there, that's already been done by the appraiser...

I doubt that you will be able to avoid it.  We refinanced on a loan that was
less than two years old.  A survey (only $75 in our case) was still required
by our lender.

I would have expected this to show up as an item on your "good (bad) faith
estimate" sheet from the lender.  Was it missing? 

Stavros is exactly right:

>                                 Remember, all these surveys and so on
> are not to convince YOU that everything is OK, but to convince someone
> who sees only the paper trail.

Appraisals, PMI, survey's, title insurance:  it's all aimed at making the
lender (and any future buyer(s) of that loan) happy.  About all you can do is
shop these fees.  I have found that _all_ of them vary from lender to lender.

Title insurance seems to be more a function of the title company, the other
fees vary with lender and locality.

In theory you as consumer should be able to combine any title company, any
appraiser, and any lender, but in practice they tend to operate as a
"package" that makes comparison shopping a lot tougher than "hello, what is
your rate for 30 yr fixed, 0 pts and 0 origination fee?".

BTW: 

You are entitled to a copy of your appraisal, although your lender is not
required by law to tell you this fact.  You have to ask for it in writing,
but new federal laws say that a lender has to provide you a copy whether you
close the loan with them or not.  (Assuming you paid for an appriasal)

It turns out that the freeze on new government regulations has stalled some
second regulation that legally obligates the lender to tell you that you are
entitled to a copy!

My lender insisted that they couldn't give that out ...  right up to the day
I mailed in a copy of a newspaper article detailing this whole business along
with a written request for a copy.  They promptly gave me a copy, no charge.

(I hate paying ~$300 for something and not even seeing what it says!)

Stuart Bobb
sjb@fc.hp.com
From: charless@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Charles R. Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re:Outdoor Lighting: Mercury vapor Vs. High Pressure Sodium
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:42:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

My $.02 summary of the subject:

Mercury vapor is rarely preferred to HPS, now that HPS is widely
available.  Both colors leave a lot to be desired, but HPS is
more efficient, and (if I remember right) doesn't dim as much as the
bulb gets old.  Mercury vapor is deficient in red light, and is often
shunned because it makes white people look like ghosts.  HPS is rich in
that end of the spectrum, but makes green leaves look black, since it
has no green.

Other options:  'Metal Halide' lamps are mercury lamps with lots of
wierd stuff thrown in the soup (excuse me, amalgam)  to get a better color,
and I think a bit more efficient also. 
There's actually a wide range of color quality
available under the broad catagory 'Metal Halide', but any of them
are a lot better than simple mercury or HPS.  Nice new office buildings
often have them for outdoor lighting.

Also possible are compact fluorescents, either in a
fixture designed for them, or in one deigned for incandescents.  They
are about the same efficiency as the above discussed lamps (I forget
exactly but I think they are between mercury and HPS), and have better color
than even Metal Halide.  I think they'd be better unless you want a whole
lot of light such that the ~30 W maximum size (about equivalent to a 35W
Mercury vapor, or 100W incandescent)  wouldn't be enough.  Also be
careful about minimum starting temperature with them for outdoors.

charlie sullivan                        charless@power.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davecole@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Cole)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Painting Stucco?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 11:39:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.170038.19812@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM> davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord) writes:
>In article <dumic-220992132021@apamea.swarthmore.edu> dumic@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mark J. Dumic) writes:
>>I'm looking at a house whose exterior is mainly stucco.  I know that this
>>can be painted but that you are then locked into re-painting every several
>>years.  Does anybody know about any new color treatments that would be more
>>permanent?  Something that would penetrate and permanently bond with the
>>stucco?

I have aa 90 year old house that has the original unpainted stucco.  In
Duluth, with major weather.  I am surprised that stucco lasts with no painting
in this climate (I was always painting it in San Diego  :)
But then again, it is concrete.
I have heard that it was sprayed by the City with a clear sealer of some kind,
but don't see any sign of that. (And have no idea why the City would do this.)

>
>What is it you want to accomplish? Simply change the color? I have a
>related question:
>
>I have a fifteen year old house with colored stucco. Overall it is still
>in fair condition but there are a few small cracks. If I was going to
>paint, I would caulk them up and paint over the caulk. The question is:
>is there anything I can do that will look OK without being painted over?
>The stucco is sand colored and the few little spots the previous owner
>tried to fill with white caulk stand out like a sore thumb.
>

If it is really sand colored, try this: use clear silicone caulk.  Sprinkle
sand on the caulk before it sets.  If you get the right color sand, it should
match in both color and texture.  Try a sample on a piece of scrap first.


Dave Cole


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house