HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:48:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject: Re: Gone with the Wind

naomi, you're quite right that i haven't read *GWTW*; I was guessing, and
got caught at it . . . I was too concerned about the slurs heaped upon the
head of the already far-too-wronged Isabel Archer to be prudent, I suppose.

chastenedly,
mbmcdonald
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:35:45 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hirsch

>Tim, how on earth can you argue that Hirsch doesn't offer prescriptive lists
>for cultural literacy when the book of that title *has* such a list....

  I believe that Hirsch states in his book that the list is provided
as a sample of what he, and scholars he has consulted, believe are
basic words and phrases that one should have a passing acquaintence
with, and I believe (though I don't have my text at hand) that he
states explicitly that it is neither exhaustive, exclusive, or
prescriptive.  As far as the dictionary goes, I haven't read it, so
can't comment on it.

>As for teaching minorities rudiments of "common culture," who
>advocates *not* doing this, and where on earth do you think it not done?

  In fact, many school systems are trying to offer minorities reading
material from what they consider "their" culture as a replacement for
certain standards of Western culture.  And, there was a column in the
Washington Post which I saved, but will doubtless now be unable to
retrieve, giving precisely this criticism of a program being run in
a Maryland school district.

>I far prefer
>Ralph Ellison's assertion that we have all along failed to realize
>the strong presence of minority, especially African-American culture as a
>shaping force within mainstream, "common" culture.  Ellison argues quite
>persuasively that American folklore always already bears the traces of the
>African-American elements that have primordially shaped it.

  Hirsch in fact does support Ralph Ellison's assertion quite
strongly in his book.  In fact, that seems a very important
point to him.

                                   -Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:31:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Two-minute mini-survey!

Wordsworth's *Ode: Intimations of Immortality* would certainly be one
work that addresses many of the questions you raise, Tim B.

mbmcdonald
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:06:53 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Babble about Byatt's book.

>        I started _Possession_ and am enjoying it immensely.  I really
>like the mixture of so many styles when Byatt supplements the modern
>narration with letters which are supposed to be written by Victorians
>as well as mock academic work.  I am not sure if I think the whole
>book is as good as its constituent parts.  One gets the impression
>that Byatt is allowing us to watch her play an amusing intellectual
>game which has no great importance.  Maybe I'll change my mind when I
>finish the book, though.

  But don't you get it?  Amusing intellectual games of no
great importance are what the entire book is about!  I mean,
how can you read _Possession_ and not ask yourself at least
once "Who cares about Ash's little affair?"  Or, for that
matter, stop and say "what is this compulsion that everyone
seems to have for gathering up and hiding away and keeping
secret all the little details of a second rate dead poet's
perfectly ordinary life?"  (Or, just to make it more obvious,
from what comes the obsession with possession of the ashes of Ash?)

  I think Byatt does a brilliant job of maintaining within
the reader a rather intense interest in what is an almost
unimaginably boring pursuit.  And, yes, at some level, she
is only playing intellectual games.  On the other hand,
she plays those games extremely well, and the astute reader
can play along with her.  *That* is the delight in her novel.

                           -Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:48:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Rooshians

Timmie, I object to the notion that Dos. Tol. and Chek. are "better than
Dickens."  The first of the three, perhaps (and he professed to love the
dickens out of Chucky D!).  It's real fashionable not to like Dickens these
days, but I'll take him over the brilliant but boring George Eliot any day.

mbmnotmccoll
From: PRH65@CAS.BITNET (Pauline Hodges --D65 x2701--)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Changes at the New Yorker
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:34:19 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     <Parser> W: Field "Resent-To:/To:" duplicated. Last occurrence
              was retained.
Comments: To: Tim Bowden <tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us>

One more thing about the New Yorker:  I happened to be reading the Histories by
Herodotus this summer and as I was reading his discussion of Egypt I got this
sense that I was reading a New Yorker piece, the style was so similar.  Factual,
but in a personal sort of way.

Polly H.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: mailout v1.26 released
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 08:35:16 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: True Confessions

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: helfrich@siam.org

HG> Another aspect of reading not yet discussed -- how "loyal"
HG> are you to an author?  Once you find someone whose work
HG> you enjoy, do you look for everything else the author has
HG> written?  I tend to do that.

I methodically sought out all of Faulkner.  It was sort of
incumbent on my southern heritage, I suppose.  Except for
_Mosquitoes_.  It was his first, and a modest enough little
volume, and yet -


 It's right over there.  I could read it anytime.  Then I
suppose I would have completed Faulkner.  But I don't.  I
have read the opening a couple times.  I could do it.  Then
I would be all the way through Faulkner.  It's right over
there.  Right now I have time.

I won't, though.  Not now, not ever.
--- eecp 1.45 LM2
 * Origin: Fort Knox  (1:216/509)
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
UUCP:
{scruz|gorn|netcom}!{comix|gorn|cruzio}!clovis!LITERARY
USENET: tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us
JOIN THE NERDNOSH LIST: nerdnosh-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
The Poetry Workshop: poet-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:18:15 CDT
From:         Julie Lindner <julie@MUDHONEY.MICRO.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gibson/Sterling/Irving
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Aug 25, 92 3:33 pm

IAN YORK sez:
:
: What has Pat Cardigan written?  I don't recognize ger name, maybe I'll
: know some titles.

She's written two novels, Synners and Mindplayers and a collection of
short fiction called Patterns.  Excellent stuff.....

--
  Julie Lindner                | I want your hair        so everywhere I go
                               | to cover me with maps   will be as beautiful
  julie@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu | of new places,          as your hair.    RB
  ___________________________________________________________________________
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:44:04 CDT
From:         Julie Lindner <julie@MUDHONEY.MICRO.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Sorry about the "r"
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Aug 25, 92 6:25 pm

Odd, thing....I just realized I misspelled Pat Cadigan's name earlier.
There is no "r" in her last name.

--
  Julie Lindner                | I want your hair        so everywhere I go
                               | to cover me with maps   will be as beautiful
  julie@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu | of new places,          as your hair.    RB
  ___________________________________________________________________________
From: millie@shire.math.columbia.edu (Millie Niss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Babble about Byatt's book.
Summary: pursuing _Possession_ peeve prudently
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:15:19 GMT
Followup-To: millie@math.columbia.edu
Organization: Mathematics Department, Columbia University
X-Posted-From: shire.math.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Well, Tim, I'm glad to see that I've managed to stir up a tiny bit of
disagreement by blasting Byatt a bit.  Maybe next time I post, I'll
try being very negative about everbody's favorite things :-)

Seriously, though, I think I did miss the point about whther or not
"mere intellectual games" are worthwile pursuits, if in fact that
point is in the book.  As I said, I'm not finished yet.  Maybe my
problem was that looking up obscure details about obscure people
didn't seem "boring" to me.  I get vicarious pleasure from reading
about it because I'm only very slightly too sensible to devote my life
to that kind of arcana.  But even so, I tend to look for some kind of
enduring theme in books which I consider really good, as opposed to
simply entertaining.  I think it's the influence of my high school
English teachers...

Millie.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 10:01:30 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 10:01:30 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Sterne/Kundera
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	For what it's worth, I thought I would mention that Kundera, in *Art
of the Novel* says something about the novel never having taken advantage
of the possibilities opened up by *Tristram Shandy,* and he was advocating
that the novel take this direction, because....(trying to go back a few
years and retrieve this), the cultivation of the personal *was* the reason
for the novel. The novel was home for the idiosyncratic life that the state
had no use for. Michael McColl
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 03:55:35 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:55:35 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      translations
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

There's a relatively new one out by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky
which I read was very good, but I cannot yet speak from experience. But I
will defer to Tim on this.

notnotmbm
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:00:25 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Graham Greene, modern poetry

>What do people think of _Monsignor Quxote_ ?  I've heard it is
>considered to be one of GG's worst books, but I found it interesting
>(although it wasn't a pasge-turner).  I read it right after reading
>(parts of) Cervantes, so I was in a position to see the refernces.  I
>thought GG did a good job of raising the issues of madness and
>personal identity which are so important in _Don Quixote_.

  Hmmm.  Well, I haven't read much Graham Greene - but
_Monsignor Quixote_ was my favorite of the bunch.  Just
goes to show what I know.

  _A Burnt Out Case_ has been on my "to be read" shelf for
about a year now...and I keep picking it up and putting it
back down.  It hasn't been able to hold my interest over its
challengers for my time.

                                   -Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"literary@ucf1vm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:19:00 CDT
From:         SPACE COWBOY <S_NATALE@TWU.BITNET>
Subject:      Lillian Seeligson Whitaker

Lovers of Literature --

I am currently looking for biographical information about a 20th century
American poet named Lillian Seeligson Whitaker.  I have exhausted the common
biographical indexes and such and was wondering if anyone knew anything about
where I could obtain some facts about her life.

I have a copy of "Rhymes for Today," a collection of her poetry published in
1942 by Harbinger House. This is all I have.

Please respond to me directly at my address below.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.


  ___________________________________________________________________________
 | "What looks large from a distance close up is never that big."            |
 |                                          -- Bob Dylan                     |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|
 |   __\/__                                                                  |
 |  (      )    Joe Natale                        *****                      |
 | [--O--O--]   Reference/Electronic Access         *   *   *   *            |
 |  \\\--///    Mary Evelyn Blagg-Huey Library      *    * * * *  *   *      |
 |    \\//      Texas Woman's University                  *   *   *   *      |
 |              P. O. Box 23715                                   *****      |
 |              Denton, Texas  76204-1715                                    |
 |                                                                           |
 | VOICE (817) 898-3709        BITNET s_natale@twu                           |
 |   FAX (817) 898-3726      INTERNET s_natale@twu.edu                       |
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: LITERARY
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:40:00 EDT
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      plangens interrogans

        I ran into a student in the Classics (in the British sense) today and
promptly took the opportunity to ask him what planges interrogans (interrogator?
   ) meant.  He said "plangens" would mean "wandering" (apparently the word is
used in Homer to describe the wandering floating rocks, which I don't recall
from my Homer unless he means the rocks that clapped together to crush ships -
is that Homer?).  So plangens interrogator could mean something like (The
travelling investigator"  or wandering philosopher, if we tried a loose
interpretation.  Could the original poster repeat the question, with the
background; I couldn't remember who signed it beside his anme, and both of
uswould like to know if this interpretation makes sense.  Thanks.
        Ian (apologizing for typos because this keyboard hatesd me)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 21:36:37 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:36:37 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Kundera
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	Tim, what you bring up is very interesting. I got far enough into
_Grammatical Man_ to be able to recognize those ideas you mention; what I'm
wondering is how chaos theory might fit into that, or if it would be an en-
tirely incompatible perspective. As far as literature goes, it often ends
up reflecting, consciously or unconsciously, the primary new insights into
the universe. It's possible that hypertext is a belated reflection of rela-
tivity theory, or perhaps quantum indeterminacy. Or perhaps I just like the
sound of "quantum indeterminacy."
	As for Cage, I was rather sorry to hear the news, because I had not
long before read an article that described him as healthy, happy, and hoping
to live forever. His idea that any sound could be music, or could be a part
of a piece of music, even silence, is one that we should be careful never
to forget. Whether his ideas apply to literature, or how, is matter for
another time. Michael B.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:33:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Trollope

Shoot, I confused matters by stating that the "17th century was definitely
the one," when I meant to say the *18th century*.  Damn!

It's the 18th, 18th, 18th, 18th, 18th, 18th, 18th.        Penance done.

mbmnotmccoll
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 08:32:00 EDT
From:         Sonia Kovitz <skovitz@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Relevance, Buffoons, and Fyodors
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Johnson" at Aug 26, 92 2:59 pm

Tim, absolutely wonderful collection of remarks from the Brothers... I salute
you!  Something like this should replace the Cliff Notes to get people
interested in books... it's kind of a collage (my preferred art form).
Listen guys and dolls, it's hello and goodbye.  I've enjoyed your net (for 24
hours) and especially enjoyed Tim on the Rooshians, but the volume is just too
great to stay up with (a reader of the Rooshians complaining about TOO MUCH TO
READ????)  P.S. The translations of Crime and Pun and Bros K by Pearsman and
Volokhonsky are outstanding (and the introductory essay to Bros K by them
explaining their method and its relation to the novel is also great).

Do svidanya, Sonia (she said as she disappeared into the last page of
Crime and Punishment to
rendezvous with Raskolnikov in Siberia)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:08:41 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:08:41 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Hirsch
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	It's hard to get a handle on a culture that would not be conceived
as static, and yet is held in common. And how is it not an imposition. Standard
English is an imposition right from the start. Is Hamlet more important to
this common culture than Charlie Parker? How are decisions like this made,
and by whom? Many African Americans would also dispute that our European
and Greek heritage is their heritage--certainly we have not been very
generous over the years in making it available. By now, of course, theree is
a widespread rejection of most everything that is taught in the schools.
Knowledge of these things, however, if only by name, would certainly make
_reading_ a less alienating experience--I remember being labeled a reactionary
(not entirely seriously) in a discussion group a number of years ago because
I argued that Hirsch's idea had at least that virtue--recognition value is
important because, quite simply, the less strange and incomprehensible the
contents of the sentence are, the more likely the sentence will be read to
the end. Personally I think things are too fragmented, and going in too many
directions, for his project to have much chance--perhaps it is more likely
that we can have public issues and history in common. If political discourse
were carried on at a higher level, and most Americans got involved, this
could be a kind of shared culture. In any case, it's not a subject that
can be wrapped up neatly in a paragraph. Michael B.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
From: lenrique@lacerta.unm.edu (Luiz Enriquez)
Subject: lost book
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 20:01:07 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Keywords:


	Hello all


	I been trying to find a book written by Alexander Dumas  fo a couples  

	of years now. The name of the book is "Louise D' La Valliere." This 

	book is the fourth book of the three musketeer series. Can anybody  

	tell me if anybody  have seen or heard about this book. Any information

	will be appreciated.



			Thanks

			Luiz.A.Enriquez

:)"a foreigner in these strange  lands."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:33:18 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Relevance, Buffoons, and Fyodors

>Presumably, the quotes you offer
>come from a translation you *do* like; why not recommend one, rather than
>just putting down the translations you don't care for?  (or did you translate
>the passages in question yourself?)

  I wish I were able to translate it myself.  Unfortunately,
like a true patriotic, blue-blood american, I speak only one
language.

  I also find it much easier to say "this is not a good translation"
than "this is a really good translation."  It is always easier to
recognize a clunker.

  My marked copy, the one the quotes came from, and one which I
like is (I think) McAndrews.  (See, I even remember the names of
the bad ones better....)

  There was recently a new translation released, I believe, which
was well received, but I haven't read it, and can't recall who
translated it.  (Very helpful, Tim.)

                            -Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:20:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Brothers Karamazov

My deity!  That post about the Brothers K is goiing to keep TJ at work for
months!

mbmnotmccoll
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: mailout v1.26 released
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:42:18 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: confessions

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu

MU> For example, for an artist now, couldn't you argue that
MU> the basics are abstraction, and that only in a rebellion
MU> against or rejection of abstraction would this artist turn
MU> to representation.


Years ago, I read in _Death in the Afternoon_ about the paseo
that opens the running of the bulls, specifically the point
at which the toreros bow to the Presidente.  The bow is
deep or perfunctory, says Papa, depending on their experience
and degree of cynicism.

Some are as devout as choirboys, others as cynical as night-
club operators.  The cynics make the best drinking companions;
the choirboys are killed more often.

But the line I remember told me that some are made devout by
their cynicism.  I have wondered about that, and my translation
is similar to the lines quoted above, or the need of the child
to distinguish himself from the parent, as rowdy backwoods
nuts-'n-berries earthy progenitors of straight-laced buffed
sparkling plastic kids who in turn beget bohemians scofflaws.

Just a nice resonance.
--- eecp 1.45 LM2
 * Origin: Fort Knox  (1:216/509)
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
UUCP:
{scruz|gorn|netcom}!{comix|gorn|cruzio}!clovis!LITERARY
USENET: tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us
JOIN THE NERDNOSH LIST: nerdnosh-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
The Poetry Workshop: poet-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU