HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bet@sbi.com (Bennett E. Todd @ Salomon Brothers Inc., NY )
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: 256 grayscale levels with standard colormap
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:04:59 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Salomon Brothers, Inc.

Date: 4 Sep 92 17:12:53 GMT
Message-Id: <711@cyclone.sbi.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep2.040959.16164@walter.cray.com> vincent@cadillac.cray.com (Vincent LE BARAZER) writes:
>[...]
> I'd like to create an X application that draw lines of pixels, with
>color level from 0 to 255 in a Grayscale visual.
> This application has to work either on 8 planes grayscale servers or
>on 24 planes color server.
>[...]

I did some image processing program development in my last job. We were
running MIT X11R4 on Suns, with 8-bit color framebuffers plugged into
greyscale monitors.

We could only find two alternatives for greyscale image display. We could
allocate a 256-color grey ramp, and have the colors get all hosed whenever
the mouse moved in or out of the application. Or we could allocate a smaller
one and leave room in the system colormap for the rest of the applications.

We ended up using a 128 entry greyramp for our image display, and it worked
fine. More important than halving the interval between adjacent colors, was
making sure the available range is well used. A gamma slider is
_terrifically_ useful in an image display program. In fact, we had
previously done contrast enhancement with ``window/level'' controls ---
rescaling the greyscale so only a portion of the whole image's range is
expanded out to cover black to white, truncating anything outside that
range. When I added the gamma slider the window and level controls saw very
little use.

I wrote my programs originally in sunview, then ported to XView.

-Bennett
bet@sbi.com
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Strange keyboard mapping for the hpux-8.0x X server ...
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:20:20 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 20:38:47 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep8.203847.21643@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <smr.715865780@hitkw14>, smr@hitkw14.pki-nbg.philips.de (S.Riehm) writes:
> gms@cv.hp.com (George Sachs) writes:
>> The Mode_switch keysym is bound to the Mod1 modifier, making it the
>> Group modifier.  That is why you are seeing the key bindings that
>> you reported.
> Here is the output from xmodmap -pm.
[...]
> note I have no `Mode_switch' listed even, and yet I international
> characters when I hit Meta_L ( Alt_L ) in combination with a key.

This is something else, then: whatever client you're typing to is
interpreting that combination as a request to set the 8th bit on the
generated character.  That these come out as "international" characters
is merely a coincidence of the coding scheme the font in use uses.

> PS: what _exactly_ does "Mode_switch" do?

The "Keyboards" section of the protocol document describes this in
detail.  It's rather long to quote here; if you want, I'll be glad to
mail you the relevant pieces.

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: naftaly@supergas.dazixco.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: DVI files.
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:05:22 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Dazix

Date: 4 Sep 92 16:49:53 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep4.164953.5402@dazixco.ingr.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps


Hi there, 

I saw an application called xtex that allows you to preview a DVI  file  produced 
 by  TeX82, LaTeX etc.. 

Can someone send me some information on what is "TeX82, LaTeX etc.." and what are
those DVI files?

thank you for your time, 

Naftaly Stramer

---
Naftaly Stramer (303)581-2370, FAX (303)581-9972    DAZIX, An Intergraph Company
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  5101 Spine Road    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            Boulder, CO 80301
Please excuse my English
From: usenet@inesc.pt (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Scrolling in a list using buttons !HELP!
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:19:45 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA, PORTUGAL

Date: 15 Sep 92 15:28:14 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep15.152814.3832@inesc.pt>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif


	Hi... This is my 2nd posting about this,and I would appreciate 
any help.

	I have a form widget with 3 children, a scrolled-list and 2 buttons, 
and I want to have the same funcionality in the buttons that I have
with the vertical scroll bar. I have/am trying action procedures (ListPrevItem,
ListNextItem), but it's nor working. 
	The program now runs without run-time warnings, but I can click them 
as much as I want, and nothing happens...

	I would really appreciate any help, 'cause this is already bothering
me 4 some time.

----
 joao Pedro Martins, Lisboa, Portugal - jota@tutor.inesc.pt
 
 "Carpe Diem, she muttered, and laughed. We seize the day.	
  Well, sometimes, the day seizes back !" (Psychodrome)
From: sinan@Mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: XView port on concurrent
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:19:03 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:58:04 PDT
Message-Id: <9209111958.AA13379@mtesol>


 Hi, 
I've ported XView3 to a concurrent 7000 ( i'ts been a couple
of months now) and have a couple of nuisances. Before I dig into
the problem , I want to see if anybody have run into this on
XView ports before..
In the following the application is generated by devGuide

1) We have a text field that looks like the following

    Part No: _________________________
    Serial : _________________________

   Now when it comes up cursor is supposed to be on the 
   Part No field and on a Sun it is. However on the 
   concurrent we have to click on the Part No field for 
   it to work. BTW the XView application is running under
   Motif. (Is this an Input Focus problem?)
   Where should I look?
2) When the application starts up we get the following message

   XView warning: Problems setting default modifier mapping(Server package)
   XView warning: Problems setting default modifier mapping(Server package)

   Any ideas ????

3) (This is a Motif question really)
   when the Application (outline) window comes up I have 
   to position it with the cursor and click. I just want it to pop up
   to the coordinates specified by the application. How do I specify tha ?

4) When we generate a Term Pane with devGuide then that term pane gets all the
   stdout stuff. I guess this is done by setsid in tty_init routine
   well, concurrent does not have a setsid function. 
   cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters) suggested that I should look at 
   setpgrp() routine . So we created a function

   int setsid()
   { return setprgp(0,0);}

   The reason for 0,0 is that bsd specifies :
.......................................
SYNOPSIS
     int getpgrp(pid)
     int pid;

     int setpgrp(pid, pgrp)
     int pgrp;
     int pid;

     ......
     setpgrp() sets the process group of the  specified  process,
     (pid)  to  the  process  group specified by pgrp.  If pid is
     zero, then the call applies to the  current  (calling)  pro-
     cess.   If  pgrp  is zero and pid refers to the calling pro-
     cess, setpgrp() behaves identically to setsid(2V).
     ......

     So anyway we did that and unfortunately on the concurrent it did not
     work... stdout stuff still goes to the xterm that launched the 
     application... What am I doing wrong ???

  Please respond if you have the slightest idea as to what is happening....

  Sinan
From: andr@elvis.sovusa.com (Andrei Arkhipov)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: OPEN LOOK GUI frequently asked questions
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:23:12 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: ELVIS Corp.

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 11:05:14 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep8.110514.20932@elvis.sovusa.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.open-look

Hi.

Is there programs to read OpenLook and X FAQ instead of reading plain text? There are many
signs at these texts and I think there are programs to read them, isn't it?

Any help appreciated.

Andrei.
From: aardvark@nt1l.krl.com (Donald Koch)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: strange ordering of fonts in the R5 font server...
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:47:44 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Koch Research Labs

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:18:05 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep7.161805@nt1l.krl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep7.061956.2735@cs.ucla.edu>, william@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (William Cheng) writes:
> When I do:  xlsfonts -fn "-*-courier-medium-r-normal--18-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1"
> I get the following result on my SUN:
> 
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-100-100-m-0-iso8859-1
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-75-75-m-0-iso8859-1
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-180-75-75-m-110-iso8859-1
> -bitstream-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1

Note that xlsfonts sorts the fonts alphabetically.  If you want the fonts in
the order it found them, use the -u option (keep unsorted).

You'll probably find that the fonts are in the order you expected.

-- 
Don Koch
aardvark@nt1l.krl.com
From: lugowski@ils.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: lisp & digital video under X? (Sparc/RS 6000)
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:48:22 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:20:30 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep10.232030.15802@ils.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp,comp.windows.x,comp.unix.aix

(this is crossposted to comp.lang.lisp
			comp.windows.x
			comp.unix.aix)

I am seeking information on how various Lisps do, or can be made to
handle, video input under X windows, preferrably X11R5, but others,
too.  The video in question would ideally be a digitized (compressed)
signal stored on hard disk or other mass storage.  If digitized video
is not available, perhaps some analog video medium is.  We want to
play back canned video clips, about an hour's worth altogether under X
on the same screen as the rest of the interface.

The platforms involved are Sparc and (especially) RS 6000 but others
may be of interest.  Incidentally, any informed rumors on RS 6000
video are especially sought.

This information is sought for porting to X and expanding a sizable
AI/multimedia interface project already running under Macintosh Common
Lisp.

				-- Marek

Marek Lugowski                                          708/467-1872: voice
Institute for the Learning Sciences                     708/491-5258: fax
Northwestern University
1890 Maple Avenue
Evanston, IL 60201

lugowski@ils.nwu.edu
From: ramakris@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (S.Ramakrishnan)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Wanted: Disabling Window Decorations
Date: 12 Sep 92 10:37:48 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

Date: 11 Sep 92 18:39:10 GMT
Message-Id: <3450@creatures.cs.vt.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif,comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep11.102032.6092@animal.inescn.pt> jmm@bart.inescn.pt (Jose Moreira) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.020646.13542@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:

      [ ...to create a popup dialog box without the "decorations... ]

  >|> The only sure way is to make it override-redirect.
      (...)
  >|> Anything else is WM-dependent; 
  >|> 
  >|> 					der Mouse
  
 >You can set the "XmNmwmFunctions" and "XmNmwmDecorations" resources according to what 
 >you want the user to be able to. Thus you can remove one(!!!) or more capabilities 
 >to the window.  (see MwmUtil.h for all the decorations.)


I believe dM was trying to suggest a WM independent solution. 
And please ! The whole world does NOT use Mwm !!

>					Jose' Moreira.

---
S Ramakrishnan, CS Dept, McBryde Hall, VaTech
From: aardvark@nt1l.krl.com (Donald Koch)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: .xbm files
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:25:50 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Koch Research Labs

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:24:46 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep7.162446@nt1l.krl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep7.085104.1@sissa.it>, valente@sissa.it writes:
> Hope this question is not *TOO* trivial:

It is, but I'll answer it anyway. :-)

> What are .xbm files?

X Bitmap files.  They are used for icons and other images.  They
only support two colors - foreground and background (e.g., black
and white).

-- 
Don Koch
aardvark@nt1l.krl.com
From: agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Stack Traceback program wanted
Date: 10 Sep 92 05:04:07 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England

Date: 9 Sep 92 17:27:55 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep09.172755.17887@bnr.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.sources.wanted,comp.unix.questions,comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep9.143656.20352@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
|> we're looking for a program to do stack a trace before it coredumps. We
|> would like to see, for example, the sequences of calls that resulted
|> in the program to bomb. 
|> 
|> Main:
|>    foo( )
|>      bar( )
|>         abnormal termination line so and so.

The compiler will do this for you. Compile your code

   cc -g -o spiros spiros.c

Then after you have got your coredump, use adb,

   adb spiros

and give the command 
   
   $c

to get your stack trace. Also look up dbx, sdb, gdb, which are similar
tools to adb.

   Alan.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Maidenhead itself is too snobby to be pleasant. It is the haunt of the
   river swell and his overdressed female companion. It is the town of showy
   hotels, patronized chiefly by dudes and ballet girls. 

   Three Men In A Boat, Jerome K. Jerome, 1889
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dwex@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (david.e.wexelblat)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Free software and the future of support for Diamond products
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:59:41 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: AT&T

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:15:35 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep10.131535.25380@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386,comp.windows.x,comp.os.linux,comp.os.mach,comp.unix.bsd,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

In article <d0sncm+.harp@netcom.com> harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Sep7.133347.4433@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> dwex@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (david.e.wexelblat) writes:
> >>1) Calling BIOS from a multitasking OS is trick, dangerous, and impossible
> >>   for those of us running SVR3/4
> 
> >An interesting way to get around all of those:  set up a v86 process that
> >calls the BIOS routines for you.  It can be done, and I've seen it (not for
> >the card in question, however), although I don't recall enough to make any
> >claims about performance.
> 
> Yuck. ;)
> 
> However, that does allow for compatibility with several boards.  For
> example, a VESA version of the X server could be released (I think.
> Perhaps that's pushing it a bit far...).
> 

If somebody wants to write that and contribute it, fine.  We will NOT
be examining that alternative.

> So, how's the hate-mail campaign going with Diamond? ;)

It's not a hate-mail campaign (yes, I see the smiley).  Some people seem
to think it is.  I see it as data collection to be used as evidence to
support our contention that Diamond is cutting themselves out of a 
significant market.

That said, thing are going well.  Our mailbox is over 170kb long.  We
have reports of several thousand board sales lost (pushing 10000).  We
have been contacted by several universities and several consulting
firms of varying size.  We have been contacted by SCO and by S3.

I'll be on vacation next week.  When I get back (after wading though
a huge mailbox), I will tabulate the results and send them to Diamond.
Then we wait and see.

> -- 
> -----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
>   Love me, love my ferrets.               "Break out of the mold before
>   Or at least love my ferrets. ;)          the mold sets in" -- B52's


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David Wexelblat             | dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com  | Somebody get me a
AT&T Bell Laboratories      | ...!att!mtgzfs3!dwex  |   cheeseburger!
200 Laurel Ave - 4B-421     |                       |      
Middletown, NJ  07748       | (908) 957-5871        | --Steve Miller Band
From: pha21@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk (Braham Levy)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: libXaw.so.5 not found?
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:04:48 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Keele, England

Date: 4 Sep 92 14:22:19 GMT
Message-Id: <4011@keele.keele.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

ive had the same type of behaviour too and tracked it down to xload !! no
seriously it was and invocation of xload from an xinitrc file that was
causing the problems both on Sun-3 and Sun-4. So i went back into the
tree, thankfully it was still online, and cleaned the xload directory
and remade in that directory. Problem solved. I have no idea as to why
this has happened but could be due to xload not being rebuilt during one
of the recent patch applications (i speculate). Any thoughts anyone ?

braham
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:12:19 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 22:41:55 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep3.224155.15626@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.x

In article <id.7ERS.1RG@ferranti.com>, peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> In article <17j149INNi9r@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack) writes:
>> In article <id.Q4NS.1SE@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>> In article <1992Aug21.182548.2932@nntp.uoregon.edu> johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
>>>> For kicks sometime, take a person who is used to a CLI and put
>>>> them on a Mac.  I guarantee that they will not be able to do
>>>> *anything* useful until they have either read the manual or
>>>> experimented a lot.
>>> To put it bluntly, this is complete balderdash.
>> Not completely.  How does a CLI person know how to do common things
>> like file copying, renaming, moving, etc?
> Try it and see.

If I hadn't been shown, I wouldn't've been able to figure out how to
rename files until I sometime happened to click on a filename by chance
or mistake.

More to the point, how does a CLI person know how to do common things
like removing all and only those object files which have a
corresponding source file?

	ls -1 *.c | sed -e 's/.c$/.o/' | xargs rm -f

Hmmm?

Or even...sure, you have "ls -t", and you may have "ls *.hqx" if you
poke around enough.  But look for "ls -t *.hqx"...

This is my major beef with GUIs.  They may help a novice do novice
things sooner.  However, all the novice can learn is to do those same
things faster (eg, keyboard accelerators): there is no more power
available.  Briefly put, it's easier at the low end, but the high end
is a *lot* lower.

>> At least with VMS and Unix you have 'HELP' and 'man' if you forget
>> how to, for example, get confirmations on file deletion.
> Well, you used to.
> % man: Command not found.

*Any* system can be broken.  Don't fault CLIs in general because one
particular CLI-based system has lost an essential support program.

>> shift-ctrl-click-unshift-drag-doubleclick-unctrl-applekey. :-)
> Oh, I don't disagree with that. It's as bad as Emacs' Control Meta
> Cokebottle keys.

No no - Escape Meta Alt Control Shift, doncha know...

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: xdm and X server authorization
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:45:54 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:37:41 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep8.193741.18885@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Surely this must be an FAQ, but it was not listed in the FAQ.

Specifics:  X11R5 pl 12, Suns running SunOS 4.1.1

I am trying to set up xdm so that every session it starts will
use MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 for authorization.  No matter how hard I
try, I can't seem to get the server started with authorization
enabled.

Is there somewhere in this vast network wasteland a cookbook-style
recipe for setting up xdm using X authorization?  Like, what to
include in which configuration files?  I want things set up such
that the end user is automatically using authorization, with the
Xauthority file preferrably in his home directory, and certainly
in a place easily accessible via NFS mounts from other machines
(i.e.: NOT /etc, and NOT /usr/lib/X11/xdm), and readable only by
that user.

Many thanks.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Stephen R Usher)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:55:14 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

Date: 11 Sep 92 10:25:56 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep11.102556.25901@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors,alt.religion.computers

In article <1992Sep10.145345.17065@sophia.smith.edu> jfieber@sophia.smith.edu (John Fieber) writes:
>In article <oefiyZO00VAt5mSIYY@andrew.cmu.edu> fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat) writes:
>>NeXT scrollbars are the ONLY good implementation of this I have seen -
>
>Except for one small detail, scrollbars on the Amiga work exactly
>like those on the NeXT. (or was that the other way around?)
>Difference: clicking in the scrollspace moves the "knob" by the
>height (or width) of the knob.  The difference is with the Amiga,
>I typically do a click to move a short distance and a drag to
>move a long distance.  The NeXT is just the reverse.  Six one,
>half a dozen the other I guess.
>
>>click somewhere in the scroll space and the bar moves right there (the
>>bar is also sized proportionally to the visible space / scrollable
>>space ratio), move the bar by dragging it around, and the workspace
>
>I always took proportional scrollbars for granted until I
>recently started working on a Mac.  If you are going to use up
>precious screen space with scroll bars, they should at least
>convey as much useful information as possible.  In a text editor,
>for example, with a proportional scroll bar you can at a quick
>glance not only tell where you are in a document, but how big the
>document is.  
>
>It really baffles me why other window systems have not adopted
>proportional scroll bars.  It is not like they are a new concept
>or something---the Amiga has been using them for about 7 years
>now.  (And I seriously doubt Commodore would try to sue anybody
>else who used them!)

GEM on the Atari range of computers has the same type of scroll bars which
work in the same way as the Amiga's ones. The Mac seems to be the od one out
in this.

>
>-john
>
>
>-- 
>===jfieber@sophia.smith.edu==================================================


Steve
--
Addresses:-
JANET:-		ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or	steve@uk.ac.ox.earth (preferable)
Internet:-	ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or	steve@earth.ox.ac.uk (preferable)