HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bermes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Terry Bermes)
Subject: Re: Vikes KILL the Pack
Organization: AT&T Looney Bin
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:14:39 GMT

From article <1992Dec28.105900.23045@hemlock.cray.com>, by kak1@birch02.cray.com (Kevin Kramer):
> 
> Now I have seen everything!!  I expected the pak fans to feel a little sorry
> for themselves, but this is just silly.

	Why in the world would Packer fans feel sorry for themselves?
This was a great year for a team that wasn't supposed to do anything.

Enjoy it while you can Viking fans....for the first time "wait until
next year" may actually mean something.

terry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: vxb8773@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Playoff question
Reply-To: vxb8773@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:59:41 GMT

this is the way the playoff would go (and my predictions):
minnesota over washington 
new orleans over philadelphia
minnesota over dallas
san fran over new orleans
san fran over minnesota
san fran over any AFC team

						vinnie
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jmartin@ntmtv.UUCP (Jeff Martin)
Subject: Re: EAGLES IN SUPER BOWL
Originator: jmartin@cleomed
Organization: Northern Telecom Incorporated
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:32:41 GMT

From article <1992Dec18.202559.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, by reille85@wharton.upenn.edu:
> In article <1992Dec11.154231.10343@ntmtv>, jmartin@ntmtv.UUCP (Jeff Martin) writes:
>> From article <1992Dec10.211422.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, by reille85@wharton.upenn.e>> 
>>> 	Eagles 21 Saints 20
>>> 	Eagles 27 Dallas 17
>>> 	Eagles 30 49ers 27
>> 
>> 	Which is 3 more post season wins than the Eagles have
>> 	had in the last decade. Face it, IF the Eagles get to the
>> 	playoffs you can count on them choking. Randalls knees
>> 	go all a`quiver, fog rolls in and its over.
>> 
>> 	Eagles played their Super Bowl on Oct 5. Hope you
>> 	enjoyed it.
>> 
> 
> Yeah - The Cowboys have done a whole lot this year, all they have done is win
> the games they were supposed to win (except for the L.A. Rams), and lose the
> games they were supposed to lose - REMEMBER 31 -7 at the Vet???  They have not
I also remember a shellshocked Randall C. being benched against the
Boys four weeks later. At least Troy finished his two outings against
the eagles.

> been that impressive, they have had an unbelievably easy schedule outside of
> the Division, and I believe that they will go nowhere...Not to the Super
> Bowl..or the NFC Championship Game, Oh yeah, that means that they won't win a
> playoff game either!  I hope the Eagles see the Cowboys in the playoffs,
> because no matter where it is, it will be a Dallas Cowboy bloodbath for
> terrified Troy and Jerk-Off Jimmy.
> 
Jerk-Off or not, in one outing he's won more postseason games than
Buddy and Richie combined, and he did it with less talent than the
Eagles had in the late 80's.

> 				EAGLES 31
> 				REDSKINS 16
> 
> GO EAGLES!!!
> GO STEELERS!!! (This Week)
> GO FALCONS!!! (Rip those 'Boys on MNF)
> 

I hope the Eagles have the opprotunity to come to Dallas for the
playoffs. Ofcourse the Eagles have to actually win a playoff game
to do so, something they have been woefully incapable of doing the
last decade. The Eagles will not win in Dallas.


Jeff Martin

Jeff Martin
From: dubear@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Dubear Kroening)
Subject: Re: Congrats to vike's; kudo's to G.B.
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:04:59 GMT

Wouldn't the Harris mentioned be Jackie Harris, the tight end?

Dubear
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN)
Subject: Chargers D WINS IT!
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:08:05 GMT

FINAL: Chargers  17   Chiefs  0

Todays AFC teams (Chiefs/Chargers) seem to have an over 
abundance in the Defense departments.  Great defensive play 
by both teams. Key D by O'Neal, Grossman and company, for the
Chargers.

Scoring: 

3rd qtr.

Chargers, Marion Butts, up the middle, rumbles for a 54 yd TD!

Chargers  7   Chiefs  0

Next series for the Chiefs:

O'Neal INTs pass by Krieg as ball is tipped. Result,
34 yd FG by Carney.

Chargers  10   Chiefs  0

4th qtr.

Humphries deep left pass to Miller, great catch but then he
HE F-U-M-B-L-E-S!  Ball bounces around and then Miller 
recovers his own FUMBLE! Ball on the 23. 8:00 to go.

Bienemy takes over in the 4th qtr. running up the middle
and ticking the clock away. 6:00 left in game.

2-GOAL Humphries HO to Henderickson, up the middle. TD!!
His first TD and carry of the season? I thought I heard
the TV commentator state this!

Chargers  17   Chiefs  0

Well, the Chargers have not stopped being the Cinderalla
team of the 1992 season. Next stop, Miami. Hmmmm, I wouldn't
bet against the Chargers based on their Defensive play.
Of course, IMHO, I don't think the Chiefs offerred a
multi-faceted offense, at least not today. This is NOT
a knock or flame towards the heralded San Diego Chargers.
My point is, IMHO, against a more multi-facet offense, the 
Chargers could have problems. The Miami - Chargers games
will certainly be interesting!!
-- 
 ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know
everything or nothing about it."   Olin Miller
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS)
Subject: Re: Left vs Right Handness
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:33:49 GMT

In article <14036@ecs.soton.ac.uk> ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ) writes:
>In <1992Dec11.211702.15159@rock.concert.net> penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS) writes:
>
>>C'mon, I thought knickers were knickers (were
>>britches were pants). 
>
>
>Its that ole' language barrier again...
>Over here, the word 'knickers' is normally used to describe portions of
>female underwear. 'Britches' are a style of trousers (or pants, as you'd
>probably call them), and you get fencing britches, riding britches etc.
>And yes, you get right handed and left handed ones - the fastenings are at
>the side - much more common than those that fasten at the back (in fact,
>I can't remember ever seeing any)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andy
>

Maybe I should have used the term "les culottes" instead and avoided
any UK/US/wherever language confusion.  I'd only alienate those
unfamiliar with French then.  Well, you can't say I didn't try.  

:-)

-Patricia
 penfold@rock.concert.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity.  Those who would
like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity."  --Nietzsche
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Keywords
Keywords: KEYWORDS
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:55:15 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

Since I tend to usually touch on several topics
simultaneously, I would tend to propose "MIXED TOPICS" and
"OTHER" if we're going that way.  Because I'll, often as not,
draw analogies between martial arts, fencing, and SCA combat.
And "OTHER" would have to cover things like "Sabre, Cavalry:
from horseback."  

I think that, if we have to go that way, go for keywords.  But
we're going to end up with Alphabet Soup, quickly.
--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"The field of pseudo-science hasn't progressed much in ten
years, except to gain access to the net." --from ca.earthquakes
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: fsmaw@acad3.alaska.edu (WALKER MARY A)
Subject: conflict of interest
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:55:00 GMT

someone asked if there was a way to separate the USFA people from the SCA
types.....they seemed to feel that the two groups had a conflict of interest.
i disagree...i think we all can benefit from each other...

Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: style/SCA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 16:01:47 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <168C411E26.C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.202702.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
>comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
> 
>>Broadswords were designed to kill men in armor, and since armor protects the
>>man from being cut you can not kill him by chopping him up as you might do with
>>an unarmored man. The broadsword kills by generating generating enought force
>>to produce a hydrostatic shock wave that,much like a bullet, will break bones
>>rupture internal organs and scramble brains.
> 
>Not that I would flame for flaming's sake - but that is almost certainly
>wrong. Tell me, what strange kind of ideas do you have about hydrostatic
>shocks? These require high-velocity bullets (over 2000 fps) and a liquid-
>filled body cavern. (Follow-ups to alt.ballistics.terminal or rec.guns)
>   As far as the original broadswords' purpose be concerned: I always
>maintained the idea that they were to be used against pole-arms formations.
>Anyone out there volunteering to elucidate me?

First things first. The broadsword was certainly capable of
cleaving through Chain or early plate armour. There is a great
deal of literery and illustrated evidence that this was so.

The corpses of the battle of Visby also provide some telling
evidence.

However the boradsword did not need to cut through armour to
seriously wound or kill...Shattered ribs, serious concussions,
broken limbs, bruising severe enough to incapacitate are all
possibel (even likely) without the armour eve being pierced.

Secondly, the broadsword, which can be loosely defined as
a sword between 30-40" long, weighing between 2.75 and 5lbs,
with double edged blade (either edges parallel for most of the
length and a rounded tip, or edges tapering smoothly to a point),
designed to be wielded with one hand, was not developed for the 
purpose of hacking off the heads of staff weapons, but as a
personal combat weapon, and mainly one of the knightly class.

In the late medieval/early rennaissance period, the *twohanded*
sword was employed by some units, esp landschnects, to chop the
heads off of pikes.

Regards, Charles/carolus
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: biblio. info
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 23:21:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

Posted on behalf of Steve Hick from my account....


Greetings,

For all the swordfighters/fencers in the audience, there is a NEW
addition of the most complete bibligraphy of fencing and duelling:

 Thimm, Carl, A.; A Complete Bibliography of Fencing & Dueling; 1896

available from James Cummins Bookseller, 699 Madison Ave., 7th floor, New York,
NY 10021.  Phone 212-688-6441 or FAX 212-688-6192.

Steve Hick/Strykar



-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: STYLE: fencing attitude (was: A few questions and observations)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 16:36:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo.west.sun.com

Miamoto Musashi wrote, in "the Book of Five Rings" that a Samurai in
battle must think of only one thing: cutting.  This complete loss of
self and complete dedication to a single task would make one nearly
invincible.

(I forget who) in "Autumn Rain" (a book about an American who received
Samurai training a few years ago quoted a great Japanese instructor on
a similar point.  The instructor was engaged to train all of the members
of a great family's guard.  One young man came in and the instructor 
watched him for three minutes and then told him that he was already
a master and had nothing more to learn.  The young man complained that
he had never been trained with a sword and that he was infact not a
master of any weapon.  In fact, he had realized this long ago, and
worried about his death for so long that he had finally accepted it
as inevitable and no longer concerned himself with it.  The master
told him "there is nothing else that I can teach you", gave him his
master's papers, and sent him on his way.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: style/SCA
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:37:27 GMT

In article <92358.094756IO21256@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, adam <IO21256@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>      My question in reguards to the use and effect of a broadsword:  does
> anyone have a definition as to exactly what (and when) the term broadsword
> refers to.  Is it the weapon of the vikings?  The weapon the warriors of Gaul
> carried against the Romans?  The 14th, 15th century armour cleaver?  My
> impression is that the armour cleaver is the blade being referred to.  I would
> be grateful though if the overall length, blade length, weight and width could
> be determined befour more speculation.
> 
> Thankyou, adam.
===============================================================================

The techniques being discribed in this thread refer to an edged weapon of
approximately 36" in length and weight about three pounds. This being said the
basic concepts and techniques, with the right modifications, can be applied
across the spectum of weapon from open hand to polearms. 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: sorsha@wam.umd.edu (Laurie Beth Brunner)
Subject: Re: Might someone have the phone numbers/addresses for NY fencing club
Keywords: nyc salles
Reply-To: sorsha@wam.umd.edu (Laurie Beth Brunner)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:16:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.151716.15749@rock.concert.net> penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS) writes:
>>and Salle Santelli, 
>>465 South Dean Street, Englewood, NJ (right across the GW Bridge), 
>>201-871-3105.
>
>There's also a Salle Santelli in NYC (20th, near Bway, I think).
>I don't have the number ready but it's a good place to fence.  Again,
>evenings are the time when the most people are around.

27th street off of 6th Ave, last time I was there.  Maybe they've
moved, that studio was pretty run down -- great place to fence, in
-- 
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Send burnt offerings to....."If love is a grenade,.........Ahead groove......
..sorsha@wam.umd.edu......I'll pull the pin." B-52's....factor five! -Holly..
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Single Stick
Summary: Two weapons fighting, Filipino
Date: 3 Jan 93 02:08:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan3.020849.22179
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <ian.724776297@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> ian@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Xiphias Gladius) writes:
>Probably, I shouldn't be wasting bandwith speaking on something I know
>nothing about ;) . . . 
>	If I remember correctly, singlestick is a martial art form
>involving *two* sticks, one in each hand.  I could, of course, be
>wrong . . . it seems rather silly.

Oh, it is not silly, not silly at all. In the Filipino martial arts
{arnis|escrima|kali|fraile|et bloody cetera}  the use of two weapons is
an integral part of training and combat. In fact, there are whole styles
based on the use of {long stick|sword} and {short stick|dagger} called
spada y daga and the use of two long weapons (sinawali - to weave). As a
component of training it is invaluable. Sinawali teaches coordination and
ambidexterity and forms the basis for empty-hand trapping. As a style of
fighting it is formidable. If you read old fencing manuals or see old
pictures of people fighting with swords in Europe the combatants will, more
often than not, each have two weapons, sword and dagger, cloak, mail glove,
lantern, etc. Come to think of it, Filipino sword-and-shield technique is
based on sinawali.

Any other Kalisadors out there?
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 09:47:56 EST
From: adam <IO21256@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: style/SCA
 <168C411E26.C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

     My question in reguards to the use and effect of a broadsword:  does
anyone have a definition as to exactly what (and when) the term broadsword
refers to.  Is it the weapon of the vikings?  The weapon the warriors of Gaul
carried against the Romans?  The 14th, 15th century armour cleaver?  My
impression is that the armour cleaver is the blade being referred to.  I would
be grateful though if the overall length, blade length, weight and width could
be determined befour more speculation.

Thankyou, adam.
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Cleaning the uncleanable:
Date: 27 Dec 92 22:32:55 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

root@ap.cl.msu.edu (Root of all evil) writes:
>>] Anybody have any suggestions for keeping blades from rusting? I wipe

>Personally, I've found great success with organic oils such as olive oil, or
>RAW linseed oil.  It's important to avoid oils based on mineral spirits, as 
>the added chemical components can cause odd blemishes and discoloration of
>the blade surface.  Use the oil very sparingly, and spread with a clean, soft
>cloth, spreading out each drop over the widest surface area possible before 
>adding more oil.  Leave the oiled blades to the open air for a few hours 
>before stuffing them back in your bag.  I've used this on blades I've stored 
>for several months, and seen nary a trace of rust on them afterward...

	I would suggest using clove oil, if you can get it (I can provide
a supplier's address if needed).  Clove oil is used for Japanese swords, for
several reasons: it doesn't evaporate (and leave a sticky finish), it's non-
acidic, doesn't stain steel, doesn't cause stains that I have seen (at least
by itself), and it smells really nice.  When applying oil, if you can see
that the surface has oil on it, there's too much.

	Unlike some light oils, clove oil lasts almost forever without damaging
a blade, at least if it's not exposed to something that wipes it off or
otherwise removes it (lots of water, etc).  With swords, you remove and re-
apply the oil every 6 months or so - though you can get away with years for
blades that are in storage, especially in a non-humid area.  You might want to
do it every few months if you live near the ocean.  To remove, sprinkle a very
light dusting of talc powder (for swords, super-fine "uchiko", again I have
an address - for fencing equipment talc is fine), and then rub in strokes with
a tissue or cloth.  Then reapply new oil.

	I've never seen clove oil gum up or disappear on it's own.  And it
does smell wonderful...

-- 
To be or not to be = 0xff
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
From: paigen@tfs.com (David Paigen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: duelling weapons
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:45:46 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

I wanted to jump in here with a couple of comments.

uzgiris@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Jim Uzgiris) writes:

>	Then again, the duels during Queen Elizabeth's reign were  
>notoriously deadly. I don't remember where I got this from, but some  
>historian wrote that Paris lost something like a third of it's nobility to  
>duels during the decade between 1595 and 1605 (Maybe in Sword and Masque  
>by Alpar--I think). It seems to me that the change from edged to purely  
>pointed weapons coincided with a decrease in the leathality of duelists.  
>Don't get too excited yet you epee fans out there. I'm not arguing that  
>the thrust is less deadly than the cut, in fact, I tend toward the  
>opposite opinion--under the right circumstances.

While we think of duels as some formal contest, and QE 1's people spoke
of them in a formal context, this was not really the case.  "Second"
usually ment a bunch of your friends, and "Duel" meant that you, your
seconds, your opponent, and his seconds, all came together in a general
melee.  No wonder they were deadly.  A single duel could result in four
or five deaths.

>	The point is: the most significant difference I've found so far  
>between 17th century combat and that of later ages is the lack of  
>uniformity of weapons in earlier fights. Every gentleman (and rogue) in  
>Shakespeare's day wore a sword, and chances were that no two were exactly  
>alike. If your going to be facing a variably armed opponent: different  
>length of blade, one-, two-, maybe three- edges, maybe a metal gauntlet in  
>other hand, etc.; you want to have as many options as possible to deal  
>with the threat. That means a cut would be a damn nice thing to be able to  
>sneak in if you can't get the point into a vital area.

England, to the best of my knowledge, was the only European country that
not only allowed the common folk to posses weapons, the crown required
it.  I believe that this is a result of the Dane ancestry of England and
her customs.  It is certainly the predecessor of the U.S. 2ed amendment.

It was Henry VIII who realized that it is cheaper to raise an army if all
of the soldiers already have weapons.  He instituted laws that reinforced
old custom.

Also, while every man in England was required to own a weapon, only
gentlemen (i.e. land owners & up) were allowed to carry swords.  Unless,
of course, the fellow was in the imploy of the military or a peer.

----------------------->"Lay on, McDuff,    14th c. ideals in a 21st c. world
David Paigen            and damn'd be he        N: PLO Bush IRA CIA KKK
TRW Financial Systems   who first cries,        S: terrorism pipe bomb kill
paigen@tfs.com          'hold, enough!'"        A: assasination maim
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Might someone have the phone numbers/addresses for NY fencing club
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:44:56 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@acs.bu.edu


Hello
Somebody had the addresses and telephone numbers of fencing organizations based
in NY. However, his school I guess is on break. Might someone else have the
address for an org in NYC or one of the burroughs?

Thanks in advance

NEil


Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: bressen@cs.columbia.edu (Andrew Bressen)
Subject: Re: Might someone have the phone numbers/addresses for NY fencing club
Summary: try information.
Keywords: nyc salles
Organization: Apartment of the Wax Donut Eaters
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 11:11:31 GMT

In article <105611@bu.edu> schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier) writes:
>in NY. However, his school I guess is on break. Might someone else have the
>address for an org in NYC or one of the burroughs?

The New York Fencing Club is actually called the New York Fencing Club,
or at least my call to 411 yielded the following info under that name:
212-874-9800. 154 West 71st Street, NYC.

Also, there is fencing activity at:
New York Athletic Club, 180 Central Park South, 212-247-5100.

and Salle Santelli, 
465 South Dean Street, Englewood, NJ (right across the GW Bridge), 
201-871-3105.

NYU, Columbia University, and (I think) Hunter College all have fencing
teams as well.







Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing