HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leeds@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Paul Martenis)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Flat Top
Summary: any local players?
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:24:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.board
Distribution: ne
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA


	While we're on the subject of Flat Top, is there anyone in the
Boston area who is interested in playing the game?  I bought a copy a
couple of years ago, but have never played it.

	If I don't find a face-to-face opponent, perhaps somebody
further away would like to try Flat Top as PBEM.  Any takers, or
suggestions on how to go about it?

- Paul


-- 
Paul L. Martenis		E-mail:	leeds@cfa
60 Garden St.			    or:	leeds@cfa.harvard.edu
Cambridge, MA  02138 USA	Phone:	(617) 495-7284
From: wallace@dtc.hp.com (David Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Marsh/Plains
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:04:04 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Design Technology Center, Santa Clara, CA

In article <1622@idacrd.UUCP> desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins) writes:
>
>As I said in my previous posting, in the standard game I think the
>warbear line is slightly better than the minotaur line.  I base this in
>large part on the significant superiority of giants over dragons.  (Is
>there is any question about this?)

Sure - which would you rather have defending in its native terrain?  I'll
go with dragons in the mountains over giants in the tundra, myself.  The
volcano can be a significant terrain advantage if you play it right.

Dave W. 	(dwallace@dtc.hp.com)

-- 
Dave W. 	(dwallace@dtc.hp.com)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Subject: Re: Titan - who does NOT like it?
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 17:20:05 GMT

  I'll reply since i sort of started this recent Titan outburst
with my questions.  I've played about a dozen games already.
There may be a bit of dead time with beginners, but the people
i've played with were quickly out of this phase.  Moving never
takes more than a minute or two, as we all look at *our* stacks
while the other person is moving, and when you roll, you never
have more than 3 choices of where to go.
  Sometimes the fighting is fun to watch, even if you aren't
involved, just to see how it works out.  We usually like to
discuss strategies after fights regarding close games.
  The previous post commented that Titan was not fun to watch.
This is interesting, as my wife watched the game for over an
hour (not ever having played) and *wanted* to play.  She doesn't
like many wargames.

Jason

ps  Now a few questions of my own.

1)  I've heard that there were some variant creatures talked about
on the net around a year ago.  Anyone have a copy of the discussion
and/or creature stats?

2)  I've heard that there was an issue of The General that talked
about Titan and had some different battleboards.  The game store in
town didn't know what issue.  Does someone out in net land know?
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Request for GDW's Imperium Info.
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:54:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia

In article <1992Sep13.012852.27887@access.digex.com> robdean@access.digex.com (Rob Dean) writes:

>500 counters?  I have the older edition, and it had two counter sheets
>totalling 352 counters.  Given that the game is a strategic level set-up
>with economics (i.e. you build your ships to match your strategy), a 
>fairly large counter mix is required for variety.

Not only that, you'll be wishing that you had more of certain
counters. My copy from GDW came with 2 sets of counters, and the first
time I played in a tournament as Terran, I was surprised to discover
that my favorite strategy pretty much depended on being able to build
more than the normal number of Terran ground forces. Oops.

My favorite Terran ship is the Heavy Cruiser.

The second edition rules, by the way, up the cost of an Appeal to the
Emperor to 2 glory points, instead of just one. That goes a long way
towards making the game even, although I don't think it's as
unbalanced as most people.
From: desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Exponential Growth
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:39:28 GMT
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research, Princeton

Don Woods <woods@colossal.Eng.Sun.COM> writes:
>1) If the game involves a random element, some early bad luck can push
>one player back on the exponential curve, and it can be very hard to catch
>up.  It depends somewhat on the nature of the random element; if the luck
>element scales exponentially also, then later good luck may be able to get
>the player back in the game.  If the luck element is more or less constant,
>later good luck does not make up for early bad luck.

Of the games I am familiar with, Titan has this problem to the greatest
extent.  So let's look at why it happens.

As you note, exponential growth by itself does not cause this problem.
If a player is behind by a certain amount "on the exponential growth
curve", it means that that player is a constant factor behind the
opponents.  This problem does not necessarily become worse over time;
the player just stays behind by that constant factor.  In theory, the
same amount of good luck as the previous bad luck could allow the player
to catch up.

Unfortunately, Titan accentuates the problem in several ways.  First of
all, there is an additional feedback term.  Not only is growth
proportional to a player's strength (which results in exponential
growth), but growth is inversely proportional to the strength of the
opponents, because the opponents' strong stacks limit the player's
movement and thus the opportunities for mustering.  This means that,
even if the level of luck were constant over the game (i.e., if it grew
exponentially in proportion to strength), then early luck would still be
worth more than late luck.

Of course, this can be a desirable feature, as it tends to bring the
game to a conclusion.  Many other games have this sort of feedback to an
even greater extent.  (For example, Monopoly, in which a player's
investment not only adds to the player's revenues, but eventually
subtracts from the opponents' investments.)

The second problem in Titan is that the level of luck is not really
constant.  Early in the game, when a player has a small number of
stacks, each roll is very important.  Later in the game, as the number
of stacks grows, the effects of each roll are averaged over many stacks,
and so each roll is not so important.

The designers obviously knew this, as the "mulligan" rule is a (very
weak) attempt to reduce the luck factor early in the game.  Other people
in this group have proposed other mechanisms, such as allowing two rolls
at every turn.  Personally, I don't know any "magic bullet" to fix the
whole problem.  (Which is not surprising, because if there were one, the
designers probably would have used it.)

                                        David desJardins
From: erwinrd@sumax.seattleu.edu (Richard D. Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Looking for questions for a interview with Jim Bumpas
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:58:46 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

Jim Bumpas is one of the grand old wargame designers of yore.  He created such
items as Tatchanka, Bay of Pigs, Doro Nawa (for Paper Wars) and a few others.

The interview will be published in my newsletter, The Wargame Collector's
Journal, in October or December.

So, if there's any burning questions you want answered, email them my way!

Rich

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Re: Battle tech stuff
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:12:59 GMT

In article <trent-110992134611@128.95.123.185> trent@mailhost.hsas.washington.edu (Sigfried Trent) writes:
>Once again I am afraid you are mistaken.  In the compendium rules
>they changed how free heat sinks are allocated.  Under the new rules
>all mechs get 10 free heat sinks regardless of what their engine size is.

Wrong. All engines come with 10 heat sinks that are free, in that you do not
have to 'pay' for them (in c-bills) and their weight is included in the weight
of the engine. However, you may need to allocate some of these free heat sinks
to crit slots, as stated on page 113 of the Compendium. I quote:

"The number [of heat sinks] that does not have to be allocated is equal to the
engine rating divided by 25 (rounding down). For example, a BattleMech with a
210 rated engine has purchased an extra five heat sinks. Eight of these sinks
(210/25) do not have to be allocated. The other 7 (10 (free) + 5 (extra) minus
8 (unallocated)) must be allocated to critical slots."


-- 
"Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ray, when somebody asks you if you're a god, you say YES!" -- Winston Zeddmore
Xref: sparky rec.games.board:8631 rec.games.frp.advocacy:2145
From: mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson)
Subject: Re: Clay O'Rama
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:25:15 GMT

In article <SUMMERS.92Sep9151851@chinook.cs.utah.edu> summers%chinook.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jim Summers) writes:

>>   Has anyone ever played Clay O'Rama?  It is a game published in the
>>   September 1987 issue of Dragon magazine, by Zeb Cook, I think.  
>>   I watched it at a local mini-convention at UBC this weekend, and
>>   thought it was the most hilarious game I've seen in a long time.  The 
>>   roleplaying aspect of this game is almost non-existent, but it was 
>>   so much fun to watch I thought I'd share it anyways.
>
>This sounds like a nice break from our games!  Can anyone post
>the rules or suggestions on play?

No but TriTac used to (and I think still does ... or does once more,
or something) publish Monster Squash and Mec Squash which are based
on the same premise. You roll body parts and weapons and make
a clay figure based thereon ... then procede to squash the other
guy. It used to be like $3 or $4...

____________________________________________________________________
Mike Wasson, U of Hawai'i  [standard disclaimer]
	     Fat Messiah Games, S. Pacific HQ    
____________________________________________________________________
"The possible horrors that may result from such manipulation are
graphically depicted"  -- LISP manual
"Fill da puka!" -- Wahine volleyball fan
____________________________________________________________________
(hi jim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Diplomacy: Rules Question
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:41:15 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.125103.2289@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Steve.Zwanger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Zwanger) writes:
> Suppose there's a situation like this:
> 
> England: A Gas-Bur
> 
> France: A Bur-Gas
>         A Par S A Bur-Gas
> 
> Germany: A Mun-Bur
> 
> Obviously A Gas-Bur fails, but does it cause A Mun-Bur to bounce?

	Yes.  A Mun-Bur fails because there is another unit also trying to
occupy Bur.  The English A Gas-Bur fails for that reason AND because the French
are attacking from Bur.

	Letting A Mun-Bur succede would imply there is a non-simultaneous
resolution.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III)
Subject: Re: Titan -- non-game-altering house rules
Originator: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:44:01 GMT

From article <1992Sep11.045952.22495@ll.mit.edu>, by shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham):
> In article <QefwtSG00VpEA_C1gq@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>>
>>	Here at CMU, we have some simple house rules to avoid stupid random
>>hoseage early in the game.
>>
>>Are there any such other house rules out there (ie. no extra peices etc.)?
>>
>>ZZnew guy
> 
> We never allow tower-to-tower teleports on turn 1. (we call this "the
> no T-to-T T on T1 rule").
> 
> If a player rolls 1 (or sometimes other numbers) and moves his two stacks
> out of the tower, and a later player rolls 6, a VERY good move for the latter
> player is to teleport his Titan to the home tower of the first player and
> muster a warlock. With his freedom of movement 67% curtailed, it is very
> likely the at least one of the first player's stacks would fail to muster an
> additional creature on his next turn or move very far from his home tower. The
> latter player will then attack using his superior firepower and angel-call. He
> almost always wins. The first player is out of the game or out of an Angel
> stack and is seriously injured. The latter player may lose some basic
> creatures, but as this is SO early in the game, it does not set him back far
> at all. The hefty number of points, (and possibly the additional stackmarkers)
> give him a definite advantage over the field (and particularly the poor chap).
> 
> Dan Shoham
> shoham@ll.mit.edu

There is a counter strategy to this. If the hosee doesn't get a good roll
he can attack the Titan in the tower with an angel to call and have a good
chance of winning the battle.
The stack in the tower can also have its movement restricted if the other
player does recruit, so that an attack will not be very profitable. I usually
prefer to take a warlock in a tower that is not surrounded by stacks.
From: Professor WHO?
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Titan - who does NOT like it?
Summary: Things are not what they seem...
Keywords: titan, variant, expansion
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:32:23 GMT
Reply-To: maboyiny@ccvax.as.edu.tw (Dr. Weird)
Organization: Ayatollah's Correct Bidding Lessons
Originator: boyiny@kovalevskaya
X-Subliminal-Message: Can you live without Titan?

[Melvin Nicholson] [About the Bo-Yin Expansion, for completeness refer back.]

>At first glance, this table seems badly balanced against the green
>tracks, the the 4*~5 brush creature does not compare well with the
>other creatures it is up against (and THEY are not dead end creatures)
>plus it need some heavy non-green recruitment (a ranger) to get it.
>Perhaps a 6*~4 creature for two Gor (no ran) would be more balanced?
>
>Have you noticed the green paths being neglected in this setup?

Believe me, the Green Track is NOT neglected... in fact, the usual
complaint is that it was TOO good.  [Resnick? Dan Shoham?  I need some
support here!]  Notice how few Basilisks there are?

Something that I have toyed with many times but never did try was to up the
REST of the lines.  [Scorpio 14-3, Medusa 8~~4, Roc 12~*3, Gog 28-2,
Phoenix 17~*3, Juggernaut 16~4, Jotun 25-3] 

I'll post the Demilords set if people are interested.
From: traveja@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Star Fleet Battles: strategy
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:31:38 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

All SFB players,

I am interested in talking with anyone concerning SFB.
I recently posted to alt.games.sf2, and got several nasty
letters via e-mail.
I am currently playing in a Klingon civil war scenario. We do
have smuggled technology, but the year is approx. 130. 
Because of my most recent investments, I have technology for
speed 15 drones. (I know it may sound boring, but part of the 
fun is dealing with the smugglers and trying to out-develop the
other Klingon factions) I want to know if anyone knows it I can launch
these drones from my D-7D cruiser, tractor them at speed 20, and ram
my hapless opponent with them. 
Any ideas about strategy would be greatly appreciated. Remember, our
technology is some what limited (for now). Currently, no one has ADD
technology. 

(Thanks in advance)^3

Jeff Travelstead
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Western Kentucky University
Bowling Green, KY  42101

"Prick us, do we not bleed. Tickle us, do we not laugh. Wrong us,
shall we not avenge."  -most recently, General Yang, ST VI


Xref: sparky rec.games.board:8911 rec.games.misc:17353
From: kevang@ocf.berkeley.edu (kevan G)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board,rec.games.misc
Subject: BattleTech question......
Date: 16 Sep 1992 00:25:29 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

I am new to this newsgroup so I hope my questions aren't old hat..

1)Are there any tournaments for BattleTech like there are for ASL and
  Third Reich?  

2)Has anyone tried the computerized version of BattleTech?  If so,
  what do they think? (Have they found the Mech cache?)

3)Does anyone know of any new BattleTech expansion sets?

	     Thanx in advance,

		     Kevan.

P.S.  Please send a reply to kevang@lightning.berkeley.edu, if at
      all possible, thanx (I rarely get a chance to read news)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: elvis@netcom.com (kEvin A. Thornbury)
Subject: Re: Up Front armor penetration system
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 01:59:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

cem@Apple.COM (Carles Moylan) writes:

>elvis@netcom.com (kEvin A. Thornbury) writes:

>>I think you've misread the rules.

>>rule 25.4: "...(EXC: IG/AFV ordnance firing at an AFV target does not
>>add the to hit random number just drawn; instead it adds a number 
>>equal to the relative range between firer and target.)...


>further in rule 25.4 it states:

>"Having now determined the total strength of the attack...it is 
>resolved separately for each target in the defending group by drawing 
>a new RNC and adding any black number or subtracting any red number 
>as per a normal fire attack."  


I think you're right; that does seem a better interpretation of the
rules. We've been playing that wrong. 

>I own the first edition of Up Front.  I know a second has been 
>released.  Is it possible that my rulebook has a different (and 
>erroneous) rule 25.4 than yours?

No, I own the second edition and learned off of the first. We
just misinterpreted the rule. (unbelievable, right)

kEvin
never forget rule 28.72!
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: jkoi@niksula.hut.fi (Jari Koivikko)
Subject: Re: BTECH - machine gun mechs
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:48:09


>> In article <1992Sep10.161453.15542@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> dddawson@lpl.arizona.edu (Doug Dawson) writes:

>> Many Mech designer forget that all .25 tons are rounded up to .5 ton
>> BEFORE counting total tonnage. In Compedium page 119 for ENDO and page
							^^^^^^^^
>> 122 for XL.
       ^^^^^^

>Not! If that is true, many _more_ mechs from TR3050 and TR3055 would be
>classified as illegal.  

FASA makes so bad mechs anyway that that advantage shouldn't unbalance game
(at least most of writers had said so).

>While the above may have been common practice for some
>people (doubtlessly mech designers from Inner Sphere, heh, heh,)

Common practice? Overruling rules I would rather say.

> I don't believe it has ever been in the rules.

Just ready those pages, please.




>   An example just out of the top of my
>head that keeps all fractions of .25 and .75 is the Axman (since I just looked
>up this mech last night after reading the improved design in this group.  An
>very unpleasant consequence, if the above were true, is that now all clan
>machine guns will weigh .5 ton instead of .25, which is bad because then I
>won't be able to build a 20-ton omnimech with 40 machine guns (grin) , oh well.
That rule concerns only XL and ENDO steel.

It is still possible make GREAT mechs as that rule adds only max 1/2 ton.
I think that it could be good rule to reduce possible numbers of MG's 
to 4 per magazine,which uses one crit.....Comments?

		Jari

--
*******************************************************************************
*   Jari Koivikko		    * 		Well planned job,	      *
*   jkoi@niksula.cs.hut.fi	    * 		not even started.	      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: BTECH - machine gun mechs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:39:04 GMT

c9036991@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (I CANT HAVE VULGAR QUOTES, THOUGH ONE SPRINGS TO MIND WHEN I THINK OF YOU) writes:


>> Yeah, but what is a munchkin mech anyway? What could be a perfectly
>> logical mech for me, designed to do a specific task could really be
>> a totally stupid mech for another. I personally would not get into
>> a 40 MG mech outside of the arena, but the fact is, in an arena giving
>> the short distances a MG mech IS useful. The Steiner arena for
>> instance is only 3 1/2 BattleTech hex across and in such a limited place
>> MG are perfect.
>> 

>	What the hell use is a mech with 40 machine guns? Or more than 2
>	machine guns for that matter ... I havent got the Solaris rules, 
>	so you have to excuse me if i seem ignorant or rude, but if you stay 
>	outside 3 hex range with a mech full of machine guns, its not going
>	to hit you is it. (or is it????)


The Solaris setting deals with very close range combat in the arena ( I 
myself tend to use a few more maps when playing the "outdoor" Arenas.).
As Karl states, the Steiner Arena is only 3.5 Btech hexes across, and
encounters in the Iron Mountain are all at very close ranges. In this
area of combat, a 40 machine gun 'Mech would be quite capable of 
destroying another 'Mech. Thus, there is some validity in the Btech
universe for the existance of such a 'Mech, and it might even see
field service if the need were that great.


Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: bernasco@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (davide bernasconi)
Subject: VITP + WAS  HHHHEEEEELLLPPPP!
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:43:25 GMT

HI!
I'm serching for an old number of "THE GENERAL"   (volume 14, n. 4)
where there is an article about how to play Victory in the pacific and War at 
Sea together as a single game.

Can anyone e-mail, sell or .... this article ?

THANX IN ADVANCE


------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      |   __ Austria          
  ___  Switzerland ____\_/  \___ __/              Davide 
     \_     __    /             \   Slovenia      Bernasconi
       \ __/  \__/      Venice __| ___---         
France  |       * Como       +/~~\|\          
        |       +            /~~~~~~| Croatia    
        |        Milan       /~~~~~~|           
        \    ______          \~~~~~~~\         bernasco@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it 
       ___\_/~~~~~~\  +       \~~~~~~~\       
  ----/~~~~~~~~~~~~~\  Florence\~~~~~~~\      
~~~~~ Medit. Sea ~~~~\          \~~~~~~~\     
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\  Italy   \~~~~~~~\    
Autore Gian Uberto Lauri (grazie)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.board