From: quinnb@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Touching and the Party
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:44:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.210244.10716@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>, pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
> Clive (cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote...
>>Quite. I think I had this problem to begin with. Of the thirty or forty 
>>people there, there were exactly FOUR people at the party I wanted to be 
>>stroked by, and touched intimately -- thankfully they all know who they 
>>are, (and let's face it, most people there could fail to notice) then 
>>there were about three people who I wanted to touch me on the face and 
>>body, but NOT anywhere else (i.e. the backside or the crotch). To begin 
>>with I just couldn't say "no", but after a lovely chat [....]
>>I was able to go back into the party and er, let rip... as it were.
>> 
>>Because we are in Bi-space, it does *not* invalidate our right to refuse 
>>contact by people who we do not want to be touched by, it's got nothing 
>>to do with not liking that person, but it goes deeper, and is therefore 
>>quite personal -- unless you feel that the person deserves an 
>>explanation. My problem, and I know some others had the same problem, was 
>>that *some* people believed that if you are willing to be stroked by 
>>someone, then everyone else has free access to you.
>> 
>>Normally, body language is enough to say "No", but as the party 
>>progressed, one had to be a little more forceful, and you had to say
>>(in a pleasant a manner as possible), "No... I don't wan't that",
>>punctuated by moving the offending organ from the proximity of your body is
>>normally enough. It can be tough actually saying "no", but after a while you
>>feel empowered by your ability to reclaim what's yours.

Good point. I know from experience, that sometimes it can be difficult to say
no... and I have gotten angry and abusive (and regretted it) when someone
refused to take a hint... For me there are simply some times, when I don't
feel like being touched at all, by anyone, and some places (notably some parts
of my face and neck) where I'm *very* uncomfortable being touched at all. 
And of course many people who I'm not comfortable being touched by in a sexual
manner. It has been difficult for me to learn how to stop someone before it
reaches a stage where I'll say something I'll regret later. For a while I
didn't know how to say no at all, until it reached that stage. These days
though, I know that I have control over my body, and who touches it.

> 
> Iseult and Brendan keep proding at us for details.  Imagine being in the
> middle of a group hug consisting of Angela, Peter, and Tanaqui.  The thought
> makes me melt all over again.

Been there. Done that. Had to be sponged up...

> 
> However there did come a time during the party where I no longer had the
> energy to 'police' my own boundaries.  Boundary protection that worked
> earlier in the evening wasn't working as well.  There were just too many 
> random hands.  
> 
> [Dave]
>>> I just want to reassure people who aren't into group cuddles that 
>>>they're welcome in any bispace that I have anything to do with 
>>>organising.  As, of course, are those folk that are.
> 
> [Clive]
>>Very much so... I've since been able to think clearly about what
>>being in bi-space means to me, the party was a sexually highly charged 
>>environment, but that doesn't mean the people there lost all rights to 
>>who they are. 
> 
> Great point.  The best solution I've seen in such situations is to 
> ask permission (verbally or otherwise) to touch someone.  I realize
> that this can be quite logistically challenging at times, but it does
> give the other person some say so over who's hands etc are touching them.
> 
> The main thing is what you've already mentioned.  Just because someone
> is being touched by other(s) doesn't imply that all can join in.  You
> don't have to leave your personal boundaries at the door of the party.
> It is ok to say 'no.'  And you should never have to justify why you're 
> saying 'no' either.
> 

And as a corralary to this, you should always take no for an answer, *without*
taking it personally. There are any number of reasons for someone to say no,
so just assume that they mean it in the nicest possible way. Jello Biafra said
on one of his spoken word albums, "Wouldn't it be nice if we could just walk up
to someone on the street, someone we found nice, or attractive, or whatever,
and say 'Hi, lets get buck naked and fuck'? Then if the person said no, we
could just say 'Oh, ok, well, howbout being friends?' Because we wouldn't have
made the stakes *so damn high*." This attitude towards 'no' makes sense to
me...

		-Brendan

-- 
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* Disclaimer: The opinions *   Brendan E. Quinn KSC  * Questions are a burden* 
* expressed here are pure  *                         * to others, answers a  *
* Balderdash...            *          fnord?         * prison to oneself.    *
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