HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:25:38 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: 2 questions. Please read.
	<1992Apr14.024441.24012@wam.umd.edu>

beawoulf@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Yilmaz W. Rona) writes:
> Your opponent might, as improbable as it sounds, do something to  
> surprise you, like successfully blocking your "unblockable" barfing dragon  
> punch (tm).
> 

	Speak for yourself, big guy. My barfing dragon techniques are
unstoppable. I learned them from a Ninjutsu master in Wisconsin who
learned it from Musashi's 33rd grandson.
	The reason that Musashi got beat by that stick-dude
Gonno-whatshisface was because he decided to be nice, and DIDN'T use
the barfing dragon waza.

> Hand Strikes:
> 
>    Target the opponent's jaw, base of his throat, armpit, ears, temples, and
> base of neck. Unless you can make a perfect fist without thinking
> about it, use

	Actually, this is a pretty good skill to develop. There's all
kinds of soft targets which the fist is great for.


[good advice about bashing your opponent deleted]
> 
> Elbow strikes:
> 
> Anywhere from your opponent's belly-button up. Primary targets should be the
> opponent's jaw, solar-plexus, temple and kidneys. These strikes are effective
> only when you are in extremely tight quarters, and your combinations
> should not rely on them.
> 

	My experience is that things often end up in a clinch, which
is great for elbow strikes and knee strikes. And, hey, if you can drag
someone into an elbow strike or knee strike, then its even more effective.
	A lot depends on your preferring fighting range.

> It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!

	Geez...don't I get any other choices?

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: grex@world.std.com (Mark J Urbin)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:50:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.050629.17191@cco.caltech.edu> lieven@cco.caltech.edu (Lieven Pascal Leroy) writes:
>sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>
>>jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James Quarant) writes:
>>>   The sabre and epee fencers were always arguing which was the most 
>>> effective weapon--the point weapon or the edge weapon.  We found that the 
>>> epee won 75% of the time.
>[deletions]
   I think this is a more of a comment on your sabre fencers.  The sabre 
instruction I have received (New Paltz College Fencing (BEAT VASSER!) and
Boston Fencing Club) has stressed the use of the point as well the edge.
We even practiced `wrist digs' with the epee fencers.  Peter Westbrook, 
probably THE BEST sabre fencing in the US, has stated that he makes a third
of his touches with the point.
  General George S. Patton Jr, the last member of the U.S. Army to hold the
title `Master of the Sword', designed the last combat use sword used in the
US military.  The 1913 `Patton' sabre.  It was a strighten cavalry sabre with
a big and sturdy bell guard.  Patton stressed the use of the point.  He made
a comment once about US sabre men looking like they were beating carpets.
>>	Two comments:
>>	1) The epee, with little modification, might be used as a
>>weapon. The sabre, would have to gain a LOT of weight before it'd be
>>an effective weapon.
    Yup, I've got both fencing sabres and a cavalry sabre.  World of 
difference.  
>>	2) Unless my memory fails me, the epee is longer than the
>>sabre, which, in the hands of a skilled fencer, should be a great
>>advantage. I'll check it out next Monday.
>
>I've tried the epee-vs-sabre thing too, and had the opposite experience.
>I'll grant all people involved had only a few months' training, but the
>while the epee must hit with the point, there are far more angles at which
>a sabre can hit and score a legitimate touch.  There is also the matter of
>the attitudes of practitioners of both fencing forms: epee fencers don't
>have the gung-ho, run at each other mentality. Probably more realistic than 
>what is required of sabre fencers, due to right-of-way considerations (hit 
>fast!
>LOOK like you're the one on the attack!)
   Sabre fencers tend to be an agressive lot :-).  It's a rare thing to see
a sabre bout be called because the time ran out...

-- 
Mark Urbin  grex@world.std.com     These opinions are mine.
Dictators free themselves by enslaving others.  They work not for your 
benefit, but their own.  -- Charlie Chaplin, "The Little Dictator"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 04:33:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

The biggest problem with your statements is the characterization of
Kung Fu as a single style.  I almost fell out of my chair when you
left Kung Fu off the weapons list...

Yeah, Tiger style is real gentle...

Naw, Hsing-I and Ba Gua have no mental discipline component...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: warlock@pro-haven.cts.com (Tye Botting, SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:29:02 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/693-8262, 9600-300

In <31037@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:

% KARATE - has a heavy weight of tradition behind it.  I enjoyed it.
% 
% TAE-KWON-DO - seems to have the benefit of drawing from karate's tradition,
% 
% Jiu-jitsu - Is more felxible that karate and TKD, but classes in my
% 	
% Jeet-kung-do - This, in my poor opinion, seems the ideal choice.  It seems
       kune
% 
% Oh, due to their explicit religious links, I am not interested in Aikido,
% or Shorinji Kempo.  (Or at least I'm not interested in the religious aspects,
% which - in most schools - seem an integral part).

        I notice you don't mention any of the wide and varied chinese arts.
        Is this from lack of knowledge or personal preference?  It seems that
        in some of them, you could possibly find the added flexibility you
        were looking for in an art.  I might mention Jow Ga, Hung Gar,
        BaGua, and Praying Mantis among a multitude of others that might fit
        your specific needs, as your limited description of them provides.

warlock@pro-haven.cts.com          Warlock            6 ventilations & 2 tats
twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu            Tye Botting       N.Shaolin/N.Praying Mantis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pariah's Haven BBS (pro-haven)  409/693-8262  3/12/24/96 v.32/v.42bis/MNP 2-5
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson)
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:27:18 GMT

comp138w142@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Scott) writes:

>  In my _opinion_ if you want to learn to protect yourself take a street 
>safe or Anti rape/mugging (yes I _know_ you're a guy) type course. I've 
>found that to learn to properly protect yourself using a martial is not a 
>good idea. A martial art takes hours of practice and years of training 
>before you get to the point where the moves become instinctive. On the 
>other hand, a street self-defence cource at the YWMCA (or whereever) takes 
>less money and time to learn. Also, a street course does require you to be 
>in great shape (ie. hours of weight training and flexibility exercices)

	There is considerable weight of net.opinion suggesting that
short courses (such as you describe) are entirely too short to have any
useful results.  Some have even suggested that they may engender a 
false sense of security, although some degree of self-confidence
(even if ill-founded) may be a good thing (IMHO).

	Think of it this way: If there exist a few simple techniques, 
which can be taught and learnt in 6 weeks, and which are always
effective, why are so many of us working so hard? :^)  

	Barry.

 _____________________________________________________________________
| Barry KITSON              | TRL of AOTC                   ||   \_() |
| Voice: +61 7 365 4469     | C/- CiTR                     //,____#_\ |
| Fax:   +61 7 365 4399     | The University of Queensland \|   __\   |
| email: b.kitson@trl.oz.au | St Lucia 4072 AUSTRALIA       \|  `     |
|_____ Proof of the above is left as an exercise for the reader. _____|
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Karate (first source)
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:04:41 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <43413@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>As per my original comments:
>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 09:20:55 PDT
>From: scheid@danzan.ebay.sun.com (David Scheid)
>Message-Id: <9006011620.AA00989@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM>
>To: martial-arts@dragon.cso.uiuc.edu
>Subject: re: Kempo and Karate

>Sarah writes:
>>And yes, the original Kanji was for chinese boxing, but Master Funakoshi
>>felt it no longer was a foreign art, that it had developed into a truly
>>separate, cultural art, and so re-named it kara-te (empty hands).
>At great insistence from the various Japanese ministers for cultural 
>affairs who did not wish to acknowledge the Chinese or Okinawan heritage.

>And let's not forget, that Funakoshi could not return to his homeland for
>over 30 years (somethig like that). This made him basically a captive, 
>although he lacked for nothing. 

Anyone who wants to can get a very interesting description of that period 
in his book, My Way of Life.

--
         ______________________________________________________________
	|  A.G. Williams          |        Plus qu'il n'en faut.       |    
	|  willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie  |                                    |
	|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: warlock@pro-haven.cts.com (Tye Botting, SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:17:25 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/693-8262, 9600-300

In <12417@auspex-gw.auspex.com> bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:

% In article <1992Apr10.110614.765@gacvx2.gac.edu>, karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
% > I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
% > Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
% 
% 	Jeff Cooper
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
% 	Rex Applegate
% 	Bill Jordan

        Is this the same Jeff Cooper that starred in _Circle of Iron_ with
        David Carradine?!?  From what I saw (of course this is only from that
        one movie), I would hardly put him in the exemplary, world-class,
        type of fighter category.  Of course, I really did like his laugh
        throughout the movie!  One good laugh like that would/could serve to
        disable an opponent by drawing him into the laugh!  I still laugh
        heartily like that when I'm feeling exuberant...

warlock@pro-haven.cts.com          Warlock            6 ventilations & 2 tats
twb5024@zeus.tamu.edu            Tye Botting       N.Shaolin/N.Praying Mantis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pariah's Haven BBS (pro-haven)  409/693-8262  3/12/24/96 v.32/v.42bis/MNP 2-5
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: winfia@sage4e.its.rpi.edu (Anthony Edward Winfield)
Subject: Re: Fashions
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:15:34 GMT

     All this talk about fashion... am I the only one who is waiting the 
return of the "Chuck Noris Action Jeans" :-)
                               Tone
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black belt.  In one Year.
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:14:44 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Apr3.145245.1508@brandonu.ca> lampij@brandonu.ca writes:
>
>I believe the rank of Shodan (black belt) is the beginning of your martial arts
>life.  Just as one isn't prepared to be a doctor untill they have graduated, a
>martial artist doesn't even begin gathering experience until they have earned
>their first degree.

Obviously correct, but very far from the public perception.

>
>If one instructor wishes to grant his students the tytle of black belt after
>only one year's training, so be it.  The instructor is judged by his students
>conduct, and not by how well they can wiggle their arms and legs.

Unfortunately, those 12-month wonders are probably going to try to *teach*.
Some of them will open their own schools and inflict their ignorance on an
unsuspecting public.
One of these days, someone is going to get seriously hurt as a result
of this. If it were just a matter of commercial promotion, then I wouldn't
care too much. I am somewhat concerned about the second-, or third-
generation product of this curriculum who gets clobbered because of
inadequate instruction.

Steve
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Returned mail
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:13:40 GMT


The rest of you I can forgive, for you know not the wisdom of the ancients.
The LORD MASTER forgives your errant ways and shall make an offering at the
mystic mountain to the ancestors and ancients on your behalves...  (continued
below)

>Also, you have to mail from your center, not your fingers.  If you try to
>mail from your fingers, you'll only be able to mail to internet sites (and
>anyone can do that).

>Michael Robinson                            UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
____
>well, there is the other matter of using either mail-jutsu or mail-do.
>mail-do is what you need, mail-jutsu is easier though not as refined. if you do
>have to use mail-jutsu, the application of atemi comes in handy...as long as
>you only move the mind, not the terminal. 

>05-Apr-92 00:39	acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU	Re: Mail returned
____

>I think the heart of Peter's problem is that he has failed to adequately
>discern the difference between internal mail and external mail.  Since
>he obviously has a bias to the internal, he's probably just sending the
>messages back to himself.

>BTW, does anyone know anybody who has made it to the advanced level of 
>"No Contact Mailing" where you can send a message using the force of 
>your energy without touching the keyboard?

>05-Apr-92 20:58	twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)	Re: Mail returned
____

>The best way is to relax your body completely, and then concentrate your  
>feelings in your fingers.  The mail should snap out without conscious volition
>or interference.

>Get up!  You're alright!

>05-Apr-92 19:52	willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)	Re: Mail returned
____

BUT THIS GUY NEEDS A BIG F*!KING KICK IN THE ASS!

		doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) 



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fun5@quads.uchicago.edu (   GAMBIT)
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Reply-To: fun5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:16:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.023813.23710@wam.umd.edu> beawoulf@wam.umd.edu writes:
>Karsten Hendrick writes
>> In article <43325@as0c.sei.cmu.edu>  writes:
>> 
>> > Besides this, I think virtually everyone has annointed Bruce Lee with a
>> > god-hood of which he is undeserving.  He was a good martial artist.  I  
>think
>> > there are many who are much better.  
>> 
>> I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
>> Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
>>   
>
>
>JACKIE CHAN IS GOD !!!!!!!!!!!! 
>
>He an extremely good martial artist. The characters he portrays are shown to  
>lose fights (unlike El-Bruce Pres-Lee), and everything you see in his movies  
>was done for real with no trick photography or anything. when he jumps out of a  
>plane in flight and falls w/o a parachute into the ocean, you know Jackie (aka.  
>God, Great One, he who makes mortals quake in abject fear) actually did jump  
>into the ocean from a plane in flight. Plus he shows bloopers in the  
>end-credits of his figths, like all the times his barfing dragon block (tm)  
>missed and he got nailed. Therefore, logically, and with no emotian clouding my  
>argument, he is God. :-)

Logically, huh?  Technically, I agree, Jacki is a god.  I have a few doubts
about whether he can actually really stand up witht he best of the fighters.
Doesn't seem to ever display a sense of rhythm (besides straight) and also 
doesn't seem to be able to tell fakes very well.  The fight scenes in his
movies are awesome, but don't forget he is almost always fighting with 
people he has trained with all of his life (or at least since a very young 
age) so he knows every minute detail about his "opponent"'s technique.  Also
they are very rehearse.  He's godlike, but personally I wonder if he just has
a death wish.  His movies ARE the BEST without question though.

As far as fighters go:

Benny Urquidez and Joe Lewis (sp?) are the best fighters as far as I'm 
concerned.

-- 
- Gambit					(fun5@midway.uchicago.edu)
						(fung@athens.uchicago.edu)

"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all time thing.  We don't do the
From: scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: 12 Apr 92 20:49:21 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In article <12417@auspex-gw.auspex.com> bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.110614.765@gacvx2.gac.edu>, karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
>> I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
>> Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
>
>	Jeff Cooper
>	Rex Applegate
>	Bill Jordan
>
>
>-- 
>		Brian A. Ehrmantraut
>
>BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
>USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054  

	Several people have mentioned other names of great fighters/champs as 
well.  My question is, what rules/regulations are these fighter fighting under?
Are these kickboxing, TKD, Muay Thai rules or what?

-Art
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Multiple Attackers
Keywords: Hooray for Hollywood!
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:16:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) says:

>>at least temporarily disabling that one, with a strike to the throat, eye-
>>gouge, kneestrike in the groin, etc.  Then it is one-on-one.  Total and
>>spontaneous aggression has the effect of taking even multiple attackers
>>by suprise.  My best advice for multiple attackers is to run like hell
>>and hope they're slower.  That approach would have saved me a badly
>>bruised rib once.
>

>HAH!  The Aikido approach.  
>
>Aikido lesson 1:  Run like hell.

Unless of course there's a camera.  Then drop into a ninja/cat stance,
make Bruce Lee howls, and cut loose....

Or...

Drop into the splits/Jean Claude Van Damme stance, and show off
your butt for all the girls watching at home.

Oh well.... :)


Marty
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kjones@src.dec.com (Kevin Jones)
Subject: Re: What's the point?
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 12:16:25 PDT

Steve Gombosi writes (or rather, quotes):
    [a passage by Shoshin Nagamine, 10th Dan Hanshi, in
     _Essence_of_Okinawan_Karate-Do_] 

Thank you, Steve. It's good to be reminded occasionally that there are still
some people who are practicing *Karate-do*. That's an art I've had the highest
respect for since my early days in the martial arts. Books like "Karate-do: my
way of life", "The heart of Karate-do", "Moving Zen", etc. helped found many of
my basic attitudes to martial practices, even though most of my focus has been
in another art.

Watching the drift over the last 20 years towards trophies in the window, black
belt contracts and world titles as the most important thing in the art has been
depressing for me. Not that I have anything against (some of!) these things,
it's just that it seemed that something of great worth was slowly disappearing.

The kind of practice the quoted passage describes is obviously not what
everyone is looking for, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm glad to see
that it's still alive and well and matters to some people. The unfortunate
thing is that the only "Karate" I see on a regular basis comes from commercial
schools, usually teaching Tae Kwon Do. (Not that I want to re-open the naming
discussion 8->.)

I haven't read the book you quote but I enjoyed the passage very much. All
forms of Budo have more in common than we sometimes remember when we get into
narrow mind sets.

Thank you,


=================================================================
=                           Kevin D. Jones                      =
=                                                               =
= Digital Equipment Corporation   | E-mail: kjones@src.dec.com  =
= Systems Research Center         | Phone: (415) 853 2209       =
= 130 Lytton Avenue               |                             =
= Palo Alto                       |                             =
= CA 94301                        |                             =
= USA                             |                             =
=================================================================
From: stumpf@cs.washington.edu (Todd Stumpf)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:30:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle


    While I know almost nothing about any of the styles, I still think
  I have something important to say.  

    Trying to nail down a style as a hard or soft discipline is like
  trying to nail down a piece of jello.  It takes a lot of work and does
  you no good.  I would bet you could find a specific style of any
  type of martial art that is harder/softer than another.
 
    Therefore, it seems a lot of this "oh yea, well in my class we do
  this...", is barely more constructive than "my mom can beat up
  your mom!"  Things are going to be so different between instructors,
  let alone styles, there is not much constructive to say.

    With this in mind, I ask this question of those of you who have 
  actually decided that this style/instructor/local/whatever was the
  the right one for you, AND STAYED WITH IT, what made the difference?
 
    Did you try many different styles and techniques? Or just walk
  down to the local dojo and sign up?

    I really, really, need to get more excersise, and I really, really
  want to learn a martial arts, but am a little puzzled as to how to
  start.  I don't want to wander down to the local dojo and find a
  teacher who makes me wish I never started, but at the same time, I
  don't want to put it off any longer.
 
    What should I do?
 
    (hmmmm.  sounds like an Ann Landers letter).
 
 
    -- Todd Stumpf
 
  p.s. (If I annoyed anyone by stomping on the current thread, feel free
    to flame me.  I don't mind.)
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts