HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sat@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai)
Subject: Re: Joining
Reply-To: tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 14:26:10 GMT


Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:

|> NCDM> Intelligence in the 98th percentile is not a very difficult requirement
|> NCDM> to meet,

|> Oh?  98% of all people don't!

Hardly.  It is well-known that the 2% limit is quite blurry; estimates go as
high as 20% as to what percent actually manages to qualify

|> ACP> Just like the Old Boys Club once a member always a member.

|> Not quite.  First off, you can be kicked out of most "old boy networks", for
|> simply offending someone in a position of power in the clique.  The only way to
|> be kicked out of Mensa is to be "convicted" (I am not at all sure what "due
|> process" is) of "acts inimical to Mensa".  Also, unlike "old boy networks", we
|> do not exclude on various odious bases such as gender, race, or religion...
|> never mind the proven-false rantings of twits like Scott Tai.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nice try.

|> If you mean what do we do together as Mensans, we hold LOTS of parties and
|> other events, organize and participate in SIGs (special interest groups, 
|> sort of like sub-clubs within Mensa) on various subjects, some fund-raisers
|> for worthy causes (schools, scholarships, etc.), seminars on various topics,
|> and so on.

     These are among MENSA's stated purposes:

     1) to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of
        humanity

     2) to encourage research in the nature, characteristics, and uses
        of intelligence

If ever there was a time when it was needed for MENSA to live up to its
charter, this is it.  Yet sadly, all some people expect from MENSA is to
learn a new card game, or to talk about motorcycles, go to fun parties, etc.
I think this is why MENSA seems so shallow and its appeal is so small.
Whether anyone admits it or not, MENSA is not respected.  Only a very small
fraction of 1% of qualifying people bother to join.  I think it would be
great if MENSA could stop being a parody of itself and become an active
positive force.

-- Scott Tai - AI Lab
   sat@ailab.ncsu.edu
or tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Joining
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:33:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <711712859.F00004@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello) writes:
>
> NCDM> Intelligence in the 98th percentile is not a very difficult requirement
> NCDM> to meet,
>
>Oh?  98% of all people don't!
>

  True, but that's 98% of all people who take IQ tests within a certain
time window, not 98% of all people who apply to mensa.  I took the test
rather than use my SAT's, 'cause I was curious, and the fellow who
proctored the exam (SF mensa sponsored) commented that more than half
of the people taking the exam usally qualify for membership.

  In my experience, people who are interested in joining mensa, usually
have a higher than average confidence in their intelligence.  It takes
a little bit of ego to think of yourself as falling in the top 02%,
and a little bit of confidence to put that belief to the test.  More
often than not, I've found both to be justified.

  Oh, and if you're in college, odds are the same SAT's that got you
there will do for mensa membership.  I think it's a safe be that most
people on this net either are attending, or have attended college.
Just look at all the *.edu's! :)  

  So if you're reading this, and you want to join, my guess is you
qualify.  That's all I meant by it not being very difficult to get in.
That's also why I don't take claims of mensa being a "galton society"
or "old boys club" very seriously.
     
                                      Nick
       
-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                    Nicholas C de Mello
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/                     Nick+@pitt.edu
From: loftis@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Loftis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:13:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Why mammal lips?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa

/ hpcc01:rec.org.mensa / mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR) /  5:31 am  Jul 24, 1992 /
| Why are most mammals lipped?  Is this a result of random
| evolution or is there any particular reason for not being
| duck-billed?
----------

	Can it be a simple answer, to nurse with????  Are lips better
for nursing than non-lips?
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: GREENs only
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:46:43 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Jul25.183304.19054@ugle.unit.no>, mortenaa@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Aagaard) writes:
> The various answers to my simple question about GREENSleaves was curious
> reading (mostly), and a nice demonstration of the Internet.
> The ironic postings about mammal-lips were not so amusing as I had expected from 
> this group, but I asume the majority of contributors are not *real* mensians 
> anyway. 

I beg to differ (although I'm not a mensian (not a Mensan either)).
 
Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca

PS.  Actually I've decided to just outright differ...  begging hurts my knees. 
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: What's a "day"?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:38:54 -0500

  MS> From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) Newsgroups:
  MS> rec.org.mensa
  MS> 
  > I understood that you didn't agree with him, I was just presenting the
  > counter-arguments.  Sorry for any confusion...
  > 
  MS> whoops.  What I wrote (especially the first sentence) came out much
  MS> stronger than I had wanted.  No offense intended, and I hope none
  MS> taken.  I did think that you had misunderstood and thought that I
  MS> agreed with Steve.  My apologies.

Hey, no problem.  I didn't take any offense.  I think I know you electronically
well enough to know there'd have been no doubt if you'd _intended_ any offense. 
;-)   I hope you didn't misunderstand _my_ comments.  

Apology-fest anyone???  ;-)
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Daylenth
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:00:40 -0500

|>  From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com ()

|>  MM> There is a very slight decrease in the apparent force 
|>  MM> of gravity at the equator compared to the poles due 
|>  MM> to centrifugal force of the earth's rotation.  -Mike
|>
|> CW> But force from the earth's spinning is independent of 
|> CW> gravity.  Perhaps this was just a semantic "thing" <trying 
|> CW> hard to avoid the word "problem"> in the original poster's 
|> CW> msg.

|>  MM> That's why I said "apparent force of gravity".  The 
|>  MM> actual force of gravity isn't affected by the spin, but if 
|>  MM> you measured the weight of a 1kg mass and didn't 
|>  MM> account for the spin of the earth you'll get very 
|>  MM> slightly different answers at the North Pole and Equator.
|>  MM> -Mike

My mistake.  I hadn't realized that's what you'd meant by "apparent."

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell)
Subject: daylength
Summary: accept new perspectives
Originator: gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:59:17 GMT

Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Keywords:latitude/longitude; spinrate

Consider time between sunrise and sunset inside the arctic circle.
The old Sol does seem to be motionless there (tho Joshua didn't mention
wearing cold weather gear).
From: lee@physics.ucla.edu (Matthew W. Lee,Kinsey 174,x51426,)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Look out guys - Mensan denies evolution
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:00:36 GMT
Reply-To: lee@physics.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article 1001@fs1.mcc.ac.uk, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>To be published (UK only?) on 27Aug92:
>The Facts of Life, by Richard Milton      16.99sterling from Fourth Estate
>
>This guy sets out to rubbish evolution.  The dangers here are:
>The creationists may notice and say 'a Mensan is on our side' or even 'Mensa 
>agrees with us'
>The evolutionists may notice and write us off.
>
>Claims (from an article in UK Mensa magazine):
>Geochronometry using radioactive dating has been shown to be deeply flawed 
>and unrelaible.
>Earliest fossil dating = date surface water first appeared.  Hole-in-1 very 
>unlikely.
>Where is the helium from decaying uranium?
>Sedimentary layers should take millions of years to form but contain eg 
>whole trees in vertical positions.
>Usual stuff about horrendous gaps in fossil record.
>No sign of missing link - all hominids are human or ape.
>

Hmm, with these observations I wonder how the idea of evolution EVER came up.


>I expect most of these problems are well known to the evolutionists, who can 
>no doubt explain them or are working on them, but the association of the 
>Mensa name with this book may do us some harm in the eyes of the public.
>

Sounds like a man of rock solid faith to me!


>P.S. I sent off an sae to Densa, just to see - no response.
>
>+--Great Quotes of our Time-------------------------------------------+
>|        You should never have a hobby that eats                      |
>+--------------------------------------Amarillo Slim Preston----------+          
>|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England  (44)061-275-6033   |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sat@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai)
Subject: T: To All MENSA Members...
Reply-To: tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us 
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:35:18 GMT


1) You're not more intelligent, you simply scored higher on a test
   whose validity is questionable.

2) Intelligence has many aspects.  MENSA is not an organization for the
   top fiftieth of the most intelligent people in the world.  It is an
   organization for people who a) THINK they are in that category (and
   what that says about those individuals is not, in my view,
   complimentary), and b) who have a particular style of intelligence
   suited to IQ tests.  People whose intelligence is expressed in other
   ways that the ability to pass tests need not apply -- even if
   accepted, the mindset of MENSA members is that of people who find the
   passing of tests to be important and valuable.

3) White supremacists claim superiority based on the questionable
   critera of skin melanin content and regional and national heritage.  
   It is no less dehumanizing, invalid, and wrong in my view to attempt 
   to discriminate based on the even less tangible criterion of "IQ".

MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people
attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds
'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which
claims its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of
such "harmless" little groups are born the divisive philosophies which
feed nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.

If you're so damn smart you ought to see that.

---Scott Tai - AI Lab
   sat@ailab.ncsu.edu
or tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
From: sya@pe2.pe.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: genius sperm bank
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:53:00 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA08230; Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:59:21 -0700
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skh@draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:

>To add fuel to the fire - I've seen an ad for genius sperm in one of the
>Mensa journals, and an ad soliciting sperm donors in one of the
>higher-IQ-society journals.  Nothing like the good old American
>entrepreneurial spirit - making a buck off of the IQ differential
>between high-IQ societies (actually, it may not have been the same
>organization, but it was an amusing thought).
>
>I heard some of these organizations pay donors $25 a pop.  Do geniuses
>get a bonus?  I wonder how many Mensans paid for their college
>education this way...  :-)


  I'm on a scholarship, I swear! And it wasn't me! No one saw me do it!


--
Syed Shibli                           | Tel: +1 918 631 3257
505 South Gary, #14, Tulsa, OK 74104. | ssr48327@vax1.utulsa.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher Batchman)
Subject: Genius Sperm Bank
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:32:00 GMT

>> Will 
>> women refuse to procreate with just anybody, but gravitate toward

>Doesn't this depend on the woman?  Don't all people get choosy about
>who they procreate with?  What the heck kind of a question is this?

Maybe I should have drawn the distinction between mating with a person
and mating with a vial of vile liquid.

>Wouldn't you need to make your own personal decision as to the most
>important, least important, preferable, necessary characteristics of
>your mate?  Don't people already do that?  Aren't the users of this
>genius sperm making a decision that would otherwise be done by their
>finding smart fathers?  So what?  

As they say, see above.

>And isn't this the stereotype of "smart=myopic"?  Is it that genuises
>have bad eyesight, or that they just buy glasses more often, or that
>stupid people tend to be unsuccessful and have on average less
>disposable income to buy the "discretionary, possibly unnecessar"
>pair of specs?

Oops, forgot the smiley.  Have I violated some canon of PCitude?

>> 
>> Let's think this one over cautiously.

>Well, I have for awhile, and I'm still laughing, pardon me.

On the other hand, I've seen postings from you
that have been "so subtle I forgot to laugh" as well.  Does this mean
that we're too serious to appreciate humor, or too intelligent to
condescend to those who "don't get it"?   :-)

>Good post, Steve.

Thanks (I think).
I may be overly sensitive, but when I hear a comment like "Good post,
Steve", I think, "Either they're really impressed, or - more likely -
they are trying to make me feel good because my inherent lameness
is painfully obvious and I need gentle encouragement so I don't feel
like the putz that I am."  But don't let me lay a guilt trip on ya...

	S.  (20/200 in both eyes, more or less)

From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Kill files
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:29:22 -0500

  >From: tai@cs.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
  >
  >
  >> We've seen it all before.  Ignore him and he will go away.
  > 
  >
  > I never cease to be shocked by the things I read in this 
  > newsgroup.  If it isn't someone really full of themselves
  >  pontificating on some bit of esoterica, it's some rude 
  > buffoon making idiotic comments directed against them.  
  > Although I also find the use of foul language and slanderous 
  > remarks which seems to be this newsgroup's trademark offensive, 
  > I think that the suggestion of shutting others out is easily the
  >  MOST offensive thing I've ever seen written.  What is it with 
  > you people?  Can you really not stand to hear any dissenting 
  > voices?  Are you so accustomed to being in control of every 
  > conversation that any reply is seen as another interruption of 
  > one in a series of brilliant epiphanies?
  > 
  > If the use of the kill file is in any way representative of the
  > views of the regular users of this newsgroup then maybe this 
  > whole group should be wiped out so no one has to listen to the 
  > annoying opinions of others. That way we can all  go back to 
  > hearing the joyous sound of our own voices babbling incessantly 
  > and unchecked, with nary an incorrect syllable uttered.
  > 
  > 
  > --Scott
  > "Loved or hated, but never ignored"

Let me begin by saying I don't know how to use a "kill file" in internet
newsgroups, but I'm a bit confused by people's objections to it.  Is your time
so unlimited that you stop to listen to every religious or political adherent
who comes across your path in your home or airport?  Is there no one (say, some
major political figure) whose opinions you no longer care to hear?  How long do
you continue to listen politely to every sales pitch that comes your way?

We all edit out things things we no longer care to hear.  I routinely skip over
any message entitled "NHL" in the FidoNet Canada conference.  And there's a use
on the Macintosh conference who has some useful things to say, but because he
posts 30 or more messages a day sometimes, I long ago gave up reading ANYTHING
he posted, unless it was TO me.  And I have no objection whatsoever to what he
posts.  It's just that the cost (reading through LOTS and LOTS of msgs) isn't
worth the payoff (getting an occasional valuable tidbit of information.

Frankly, I just can't understand the objection to those who choose not to give
their undivided attention to every crackpot (and we all get to define that term
for ourselves, since no one else can do it for us) who comes along...
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh@draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Admission to Mensa
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:45:58 GMT

>From: sya@pe1.pe.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli)
>
>  I apologize for the typo in my original posting. The SAT cutoff
>  was modified to 1250 in 1977, and not 1970. I'm not sure if they
>  renormed the scores or not, but from Mike's earlier posting on the
>  mean SAT scores for the past two decades, there wasn't much variation
>  in the mean scores on both sections.

The percentiles provided with SAT scores are periodically renormed on those
who actually take the test. The ETS also estimates percentile distributions
for the whole high school population, based on stratified sampling.  Perhaps
some changes in these numbers prompted Mensa to change their cutoff - I'd
like to know myself. 

The scaled scores are not renormed because they are supposed to represent
fixed ability levels, going all the way back to the SATs given around 1941.

Kjeld Hvatum <skh@draper.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: daylength
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:23:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.145917.25486@ncsu.edu> gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell) writes:

}Consider time between sunrise and sunset inside the arctic circle.
}The old Sol does seem to be motionless there (tho Joshua didn't mention
}wearing cold weather gear).

Quite the contrary, in fact.  He had to be in what is now the Middle East.
(Jericho still exists -- an oasis in the desert).  Further, it was
necessary for him to command the sun to stand still and it did.

The only "scientific" explanation I can think of would be some truly
bizarre atmospheric condition bending the light of the sun so it appeared
to stand still.  Even so, ordering up a mirage of that magnitude on
command asks far too much of coincidence.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: daylength
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Date: 26 Jul 92 14:12:59 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Jul25.084637.22322@cs.mcgill.ca>, mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.145917.25486@ncsu.edu>
> gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell) writes:
>  
> }Consider time between sunrise and sunset inside the arctic circle.
> }The old Sol does seem to be motionless there
>  
> How is the sun motionless there?
>  
Because they're on top of the world...  Land of the Midnight Sun and all.

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper)
Subject: Re: More on the AG
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:40:48 GMT

The trademark "Mensa" and the stylized M are owned by 
International Mensa, which licenses it to the national
Mensas.  Only one national Mensa is recognized in 
each country.  The local groups of American Mensa
are convenient subdivisions of the national organization,
but cannot exist independently of it.  Your RVC, Joe
Zanca, distributed information last year on this aspect 
of Mensa to all his local group officers.  You might
check with him to see if he has a copy, or I can send you
a copy in the mail.
--
Jean L. Cooper    (BITNET: JLC5F@virginia.edu   CIS: 70253,1114)
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books." 
                                           --Carlyle
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Killfiles
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:39:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.31Jul92033908
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

scott.tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai (NOT!)) writes:
>Actually, it is pretty easy to forge an address.  Take a look at my
>address in this message.  Now look at the path.

Now Mike, you are no expert here...

>Path: ...!claris!scott.tai@ailab.ncsu.edu

The claris should be a dead giveaway here.  And that should read:
       ...!claria!ncsu!ailab!scott.tai

Of course there were three more clues to your identity:

>Message-ID: <14915@claris.com>
>Sender: news@claris.com
>Nntp-Posting-Host: steiner

Nice try... I'd give your forgery about a C-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: tai-sa@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: T=Killfiles and whoami
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:52:10 GMT
Reply-To: tai-sa@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory


In article <1992Jul28.203530.24028@seanews.akita.com>, billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
|>> sat@ailab.ncsu.edu
|>
|>Ah, not only is he a virus, he's a *mutating* virus.  Off I go to edit my
|>kill file again.
|>
|>"Scott Tai", you're a dick.
|>
|>Bill

I guess I am what you eat.

Maybe if your hollombe friend discontinued posting kill files for my id, 
I wouldn't have to continually modify it.  Then everyone would be happy.  

Get it?

--Scott Tai
  tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us
  "Not amused"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: daylength
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:19:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.141259.1989@brandonu.ca>, mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes...
:In article <1992Jul25.084637.22322@cs.mcgill.ca>, mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR) writes:
:> In article <1992Jul22.145917.25486@ncsu.edu>
:> gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell) writes:
:>  
:> }Consider time between sunrise and sunset inside the arctic circle.
:> }The old Sol does seem to be motionless there
:>  
:> How is the sun motionless there?
:>  
:Because they're on top of the world...  Land of the Midnight Sun and all.

The sun won't appear motionless above the Arctic/Antarctic Circles, the sun
will travel in circles when the "Midnight Sun" is in effect, with the circle
being more "level" as you approach the Pole.  At the poles the sun maintains
the same distance above the horizon for the full day (except for the small
effect due to the motion of the earth around the sun)

-Mike