HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Dogfighting....again :(
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:38:43 GMT
	<1ba8e7INNpch@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Oct-92 Re: Hell Peacock Scott
Drellishak@soda.be (4075)

> Out of curiosity, is there anyone out there who thinks I have a point?
> So far, all I've seen is disagreement, and I find this discouraging.

Sorry Scott,
	But I have to side with the rest of the CMU era people.  However, I do
think I know where you are coming from since dogfighting used to be
*the* thing to do even at CMU  (especially when it was first setup by
Terence and we were still learning what to do and how to do it).  We
happened to learn from Terence (and maybe other Berkeley people) that
the easiest way to stop someone from taking your planets was to suicide
on them.  Terence taught us that cloaking and suiciding was mondo since
very few people used to watch the galactic back then so it made the
above strategy easier....and you could even live when you did it.  It
was at this point that I would like to think that CMU netrek evolved a
little more than UCB netrek.  At CMU it became more important to ogg and
watch the galactic for oggers than at Berkeley.  Yes, we do have the
same "heritage" but CMU netrek took a different "evolutionary" path than
Berkeley netrek.  At CMU it no-longer mattered that you were a good
dogfighter if you could not avoid oggs.  Likewise, if you couldn't ogg
the person would simply cloak and avoid you as you tried to suicide on
him...or run away and wait for his teammates to suicide you. 
Dogfighting lost its importance for most of the good CMU players, and
this attitude has carried through.  The fact that CMU now possesses some
of the strongest INL teams and calibre players is not unrelated to this,
IMO.  By spending less time eliminating their planet-takers more
effectively I think ogging has speeded up the play of standard "bronco"
netrek.  I say "bronco" netrek because it *is* different than
bezier/berkeley netrek and I'm sure everyone would agree with me.  You
like the "old" style of netrek....but against the newer CMU version of
netrek (they really are almost two separate games now) the old style
loses.  It simply cannot keep pace with the new high-octane style of
play.  This is not a flame, or personal attack, just something that I
honestly feel is correct.  If you disagree, I would ask you to try to
evaluate why you disagree and see if you aren't deluding yourself.

-KB
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Netrek in an arcade?
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 17:50:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.152206.10892@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, gdearing@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Gregory D Dearing) writes:
>In article <91993@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill) writes:
>>I was wondering...
>>
>>If the technology was there to have netrek in an arcade as it exists now,
>>what changes would have to be made to handle the amount of time played.
>>
>
>Everyone's talking about whether or not people would be willing to ogg, 
>sc bomb, etc... since they would die and shorten their playing time.
>
>I don't think it would ever get to that point.  It would take way too
>long and be way too expensive to play long enough to get any sort of
>clue.
>[...]


This is how I would do it, if I could:

The system would be 16 local terminals, plus random viewing terminals
showing the galactic map, along with each local map.  Each team would
be in a seperate room, so no need for a messaging system beyond the
informational messages and maybe the ALL board.  There are rooms for
pre-game planning and a basic tutorial for newbies, explaining both
the tactical and strategic aspects of the game.  Games are recorded,
possibly even archived (if they are willing to pay for the tape, of
course :) And can be reviewd afterwards.  Recording can just be a VCR
tape of the viewing monitor(s).  Team Ranking systems could be kept,
local championships held, etc etc.

Clue would develop, assuming the game would be able to maintain its
addictive properties in this atmosphere.  Teams would form up, rather
than people just play as random individuals.  You could have pickup
games, of course, when no real teams were around, this is where
newbies could really learn to play.  If it was popular enough, you
could even have workshops :)

One of the reason some players now are such rank newbies is because
they don't have someone clued to tell them what they are doing right,
what they are doing wrong, what they aren't doing at all... This would
more than likely disappear in an arcade environment.

>Greg Dearing
>Dearing.2@osu.edu

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: TWNN at ISU
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:05:32 GMT




In article <JIVE.92Oct16162947@spanky.ssc.gov>, jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
writes:
> 
> > To TWNN : Whom should I send the full logfile?
> > PS: Anyone played the game is welcomed to give his opinions about this
> > game. :) 
> 
>      I'd just like to say that iastate played well.  I was impressed by
> their ability and know that they have the potential to beat good teams once
> they get more practice working together as a team.
> 
>      I don't know who was MVP for the Feds, but everyone remarked afterward
> that F3 (Exodus) was dangerous.
> 
>      Oh, and to whatever pussy team it was that said they used borgs..  you
> just suck:)
> 
>      Jim / FillInTheGenocide


  Wow, a friendly post :)  I'm thrilled! :)



  We just have a lot of good individuals who don't work well as
a team yet. We're probably a season or two away from being able
to give teams like TWNN a run for their money.
  We've never gotten into the practice of naming MVP's......we
usually make more notes of who played poorly....
  BTW, I'm thoroughly convinced now that nobody on our team has
played a borg in any of our games or scrimmages. I do believe
that one of my alternates must have access to a blessed borg which
sorta fueled all that talk. If I had my way his account would be
wiped, but I don't.



					Exodus :)
From: hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu (DOG BASEBALL!!!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: the berkeley blessed binary -- READ THIS
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:20:49 GMT
Organization: Ministry of Information, Lower Volta.


	or offer 2 different tractors..  tractor team and tractor other
(considering many people map the tractors to a different key anyway...) so it
will differentiate..  
-- 
   /I\          Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
  /(*)\         hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu                 
 /IIIII\        "Leave EVERYTHING to ME!" - Powdered Toast Man       
/IIIIIII\       Happiness is a warm gun.
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Who is the best?
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:44:33 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Oct-92 Who is the best? Jeff
Rosenfeld@andrew.cm (303)

> 	Who is it?  Mojo?  ZZNewGuy? SpaceAce? Duck Dodgers? yeah boy!!!!!!!!?
> EEK? Bav? Balton? Streaker?

	I haven't been in the top ten for some time now.  Neither has Mojo. 
bav is the coolest netrek player, and the best at netrek hocky.

	The best player IHMO is Lumchan/Warsong who has proven himself time and
time again in tournement play since the begining of this past summer.
	Spaceace, Duck Dodgers, Balton, Yeah Boy!!, Mergatroid, and Akira have
all proven themselves to be top notch players in and out of tournement
play.  They deserve fear.
	Streaker is a Dude.

ZZnew guy
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Seeking DEC client with visible tractor/pressor
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:05:09 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1av9lgINNnk@agate.berkeley.edu> hrandy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Shuhei Randy Hayashi) writes:
>If you know where I can get a blessed client
>with vis. trac/press for the DEC workstations,
>please let me know.

Quick reminder: the socket-level support for this is built into all UDP
clients and servers, but the display code may not be.  In any event, whether
or not they're displayed is up to the server admin; it's possible to turn
them off at the server end.

So, make sure you try it on a server which supports them (I think rwd4 does).

>randy

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: btd@iastate.edu (Benjamin T Dehner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ogging/bombing/dogfighting
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:13:17 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <wepSPw600VpdI2SUcW@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:


>	Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 9-Oct-92 Re: Hell Peacock Scott
>Drellishak@soda.be (3788)

>> In article <Bvtv1G.88C.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert
>> Hill) writes:

...

>> So, ogging is better than dogfighting, and bombing is better than
>> ogging, and nothing is better than bombing?  How can I refute such
>> a careful analysis?


>	Well, you win netrek by killing all of your opponent's armies.  When

	Here I disagree.  You win netrek by taking an opponents planets.
Killing armies stops the opponent from taking, but does not gain you planets.
The game ends when a race has zero planets, NOT zero armies; they are not
the same, since someone may still be carrying when the game ends.

>they run out, you win.  Bombing accomplishes this goal directly.  Ogging
>accomplishes this goal and also keeps your opponent from accomplishing
>this goal.  Planet taking takes armies from your opponent and eventually
>give them to you.  Dogfighting is a useful skill for accomplishing any
>of the above, but does not directly accomplish the goal of destroying
>enemy armies.  Thus, it seems like a good skill, but not a good tactic. 
>Does *that* analysis make more sense?

	But you cannot take planets without kills, and it is difficult to get
kills unless you can dogfight.  Furthermore, if most of a team can get
kills, it can keep their opponents off-balance as to who is carrying when.
	I agree that dogfighting is not all-important, nor even most
important, but I would put it on an equal footing with bombing and ogging.

...

>ZZnew guy

Cthulhu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin T. Dehner    Dept. of Physics and Astronomy 
btd@iastate.edu       Iowa State University 
                      Ames, IA 50011
From: myself
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tmode scumming
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:00:47 GMT
Organization: csu eng.

Actually, Rudy, it wasnt the bad scumming where the person logged in and let all the
fake players sit there......

....ya see he was testing a new robot......and was checking out how it worked and fought.....

...I should know, I was just on the same server a few minutes before you logged on...and was
fighting the robots.....

......Dont be in such a hurry to judge someone until ya know the facts.......

latr.


 

-brian.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU 
Subject: Re: Rank
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:17:36 GMT





  rank doesn't mean as much as you like to pretend........if you want to
blow off your team and play for DI & ratings anyone with just a little
skill can make rank........i've never scummed the bronco/rwd4 servers so
i just play a lowly flt captain.......until now.........since you think
so flt captains are unable to scum any higher rank, guess it's time to
start a new character.......(or you could just bring my T-bird Admiral over)




					ensign upstart
From: janowsky@einstein.rutgers.edu (Steven Janowsky)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: What is anti-scout-bombing?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:19:19 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I've recently heard references to anti-scout-bombing.  Could someone
describe this?

DrJ
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Out of practice
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 04:26:25 GMT


It's amazing what not playing for 2 weeks can do to you :(

And FillInTheBase is less fun than FillInTheSC, IMHO :)  Fill's more
fun when he scums...

Ray
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
From: mehlhaff@soda.Berkeley.EDU (ERic MeHlHaFf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Blessed binaries (possible repost)
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:10:10
Organization: The Dis-Orginization
	<92Oct14.095129edt.49167@knowbel.ai.toronto.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: wang@cs.toronto.edu's message of 14 Oct 92 13:52:01 GMT

In article <92Oct14.095129edt.49167@knowbel.ai.toronto.edu> wang@cs.toronto.edu (Huaiqing Wang) writes:



   Well, there have been requests out there for Tedd Hadley's Client blessed
   for DEC for a long time now. Can Tedd or some other person with reserved.c
   compile a version to distribute? 


The controversial (?!) clients at ocf.Berkeley.EDU in pub/netrek include a dec
binary that basically is this.  I didn't compile it, but someone else did from
my source distribution.

ERic mehlhaff, 'malicious(?)' netrek-netrek hacker
--
ERic mehlhaff					Hoser at large
mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU
From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Who is the best?
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:44:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct15.061046.16368@wixer.cactus.org) rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
)
)Votes of "no confidence" go out to those people who play well but
)post badly or tediously: Justin, ZZNude Guy, and Tom Gollum.

If I post so poorly, then how come you used the alias for Tom that 
*I invented* ?

)Votes of "you can do it" go out to bav and rjones, who are too
)cool to play netrek well.

)Felix
)p.s. all the other flame wars were getting boring

Nah, Hugh's looks like fun.... no substance too.. so it's perfect.
)-- 
)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
)Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
)----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Justin
From: davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Something seriously amiss
Date: 14 Oct 1992 04:32:37 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: grit.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: fake login

In article <1bgm9cINNqrr@agate.berkeley.edu>, tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
> In article <EeqvBhi00Vp08BZ2ZU@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
                  <deleted ... >
> 
> Umm, visible tractors (for your ship only) and visible locks (the client
> we use just points an arrow at what you are locked on to) were both
> NBR proposals that passed, and all the NBR prototype clients on
> the net (including the ones at cad.ics.uci.edu, ocf.berkeley.edu, and
> I think pittslug.sug.org) have these features.  These would also
> include the clients on the sites which mirror these sites.  I believe
> Tedd Hadley was the first one to add these features to the client,
> not anyone at Berkeley, but they are *not* borg features, by definition;
> they are NBR features.
> 
> They are also legal in the INL.
>  -Tom

Unfortunately the problem doesnt end here.
I'm not here to start any flame wars about borgs.
However, I've seen 2 program sources in public ftpable sites that contain codes that show how to send the server a fake login name.
I dont know about you guys, but even as a borg advocate, I'll be uncomfortable at the thought that it will be very easy for someone to create a borg with a fake login name, now that the code (it's an easy hack) is readily available to the public.
One of the program sources that has this is suppose to be a non-borg client source.







David Teo
Author of GFBorg
(Sorry if this looks like a mess, I always have problems with my
CR when I sending news via the modem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Games at flint cancelled
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:01:49 GMT

Do to unforunate scheduling conficts, I'll have to cancel the
games set for this weekend on flint.

Server God, flint

uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 10:38:40 GMT

sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>In any case, bezier ran something very much like vanilla netrek.  I
>would argue instead that the *lack* of the 0.8 defense rating, which
>was originally installed because it was *too* *easy* to get rank by
>suiciding (this was before the term "ogg") enemy players.  The sequent
>server gods decided (rightly, I think) that a good player should have
>to survive confrontations to gain rank.

Personally, I love the 0.8 defense requirement.  There's nothing more
fun than making Commander on Quad DI with Fleet Captain's ratings
because your defense is only .42.  That was my very favorite bezier
feature.  I'd do the same on calvin, but the lag is too severe.  I'll
probably only have Captain's ratings there.

-Ensign Pac-man
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Server problems
From: cvadrayb@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:48:06 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadrayb

Howdy.. I've been trying to get a server running out here at CalPoly, but I've
had a few problems. The thing has compiled fine, and seems to run ok, but when
someone trys to call, I get the following errors:

Error in execve! --
ENOENT

The caller gets the following message:

Calling 134.71.214.13 on port 2592.
Got connection.
1) Got read() of 0. Server dead
1) read(): Error 0
Augh! Ghostbusted!

Anyone out there know what this problem may be?

-Kevin

Mail: CVADRAYB@vmsb.is.CSUPomona.edu  or..
      kklemmic@134.71.214.14
/ed
caio
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: CALL FOR VOTES
Date: 14 Oct 1992 06:33:21 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct14.030027.7314@wixer.cactus.org> rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
)
)In our game against Lagg U, we killed 67 more total armies than they
)did, despite the game being nearly equal the entire time.  At no
)point did they have more than three of our planets, and the usual
)number was two.  This points to a condition in the server where a
)team can be screwed by a random number generator in the most
)important facet of the game.  I'm not complaining about the game
)with Lagg U -- they deserved to win -- but I think we should come
)up with some plan to force pops to be more equal, all things
)considered.

From the description I heard of the game, you guys were behind almost
the entire time.  Even if it's only an average of, say, 3 planets over
the course of the game, they'd need to pop just one army each every 5
minutes or so to make a 67 army advantage.

I find that every team thinks the other team popped more armies, and
that this feeling is rarely borne out by the numbers.  It's also
very unlikely for the karma not to balance during the course of
a game; you just don't notice when *your* planets are popping.
 -Tom
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: ENPN Coaches' Poll!  (After Game 1)
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:24:36 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

stimpy+@cmu.edu (Tomato Boy) writes:
>ps: note that we play the two other teams ever to get a #1 vote in
>    our regular season!

No, you play two of the three: you are not scheduled to play Team With No Name.

- Gamera

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of 1 Update Netrek
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Keywords: my three scum
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:41:16 GMT

genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi) writes:
>rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:

>Hey Felix.  I've been talking about this same setup for a while
>now!  But your setup is crazy.  You're actually xhosting over
>SLIP!!!????  Are you crazy?  There's no way your v.32bis modem
>can handle the traffic.  Use my idea.  Run the Linux client!!!!
>(If you need it, I have it).  Xhosting sends 4X+ the net
>traffic.

Err.  Excuse me for asking, but how is the Linux client supposed to
connect to anything when I'm not actually on an ethernet?

>Gene						genie@whirlwind.berkeley.edu
> [doosh! deleted]

oh, very nice.

rear ensign sunscreamer (by popular demand)
minister of updates, HELL'S BAGELS

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats
Date: 10 Oct 92 23:52:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <BvxHpF.E10.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>Don't believe everything you hear about CMU.

Do believe, though, that they have two of the top three teams in the league.
They could very well have both of the top two.  While the skill of their
players is impressive, the teamwork is much more impressive.  The only other
team that I've ever seen offer so much teamwork was Duck's INL team last
year.  I was very, very impressed by the total unselfishish play that occurs
at CMU.  I'd highly recommend a trip out...

Also, thanks to everyone for letting us play on a cmu internal scrimamge
game.  It was LOTS of fun.  Watch out for Phantom - he's a great escorter.
Surprisingly, Rob's team won even with the obvious disadvantage of having
me on the team - especially since I don't know how to win a game :)

>The USC team should've been better sports and offered to play on a neutral  
>server.  A UCLA server would still give them the home-field advantage.   
>Calvin is just WAY too much....i'm not flaming, just honest.

I agree.  I was very worried about where our team played USC.  I thought
we would have to accept a 3-1 record if we played them at USC.  Now, we
still have a chance. :)

>Rob
>aka Spaceace!

Brian
aka FreeKill