HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:53:00 EDT
From:         "Joseph_I.Scully" <21010JIS@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Montel Williams Show

Yvette:

Thanks for saying what I was thinking better than I could have said it
myself. Jesus came to set the captives free, to minister to those
who are hurting and suffering. While God's forgiveness is open to all and
God is not willing that any should perish, He will judge harshly those
such as drug dealers who prey on the hurting and suffering. I am not
a person who meditates often on the Judgement of God, but a number of
scriptures clearly mention God's wrath towards those who exploit others
in this manner.

In Christ,

Joe Scully
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:55:56 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Church and Rome
              10 Sep 1992 02:46:05 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Hi all:

This talk of Gallicans made me wonder.  Are there any remnants of
followers of the French Church left?  Is there a French Pope in
exile, waiting to reassert power?(as is often the case of those
who lose a fight--they don't always just dissolve into nothingness.)

It would be quite interesting, if there is such a person--or such
a group--to find out something about them.

Love INC,
         --Kerry (curious as usual)
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:25:07 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Total Depravity
              10 Sep 1992 02:46:05 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:46:05 GMT Steve Creps said:
>   A Gallican heretic is hardly an impartial or unbiased scholar in
>this matter, as the Gallican heresy, a sort of French version of
>Anglicanism, by definition rejected papal primacy (_Gallican_ comes
>from the Latin for _French_).  The Gallicans also allied themselves
>with the Jansenists, whose heresy was similar to Calvinism in the
>belief of the total depravity of man.

Steve,

The issue of the total depravity of man was settled at the ecumenical
Council of Orange, in 529 AD.  For the full text of the Canons of the
Council of Orange, send the message GET COUNCIL ORANGE to LISTSERV@ASUACAD
or LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU, depending on whether you're on Bitnet or
Internet.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:36:03 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 9/14

"I want you Jews to know that God has also sent his salvation to the non-Jewish
people.  They will listen" (Acts 28:28).

"The Lord said, "Name him Lo-Ammi because you are not my people.  And I am not
your God" (Hosea 1:9).

"Israel will live many days without a king or leader.  They will not have
sacrifices or holy stone pillars.  They will be without the holy vest or an
idol.  After this, the people of Israel will return to the Lord their God.
They will follow the Lord and the king from David's family.  In the last days
they will come to the Lord.  And he will bless them" (Hosea 3:4,5).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Re:a.graphe & b.I Corinthians 1,10-13
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:52:55 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92091420562599@ASUACAD.BITNET>, KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET (Kerry Stephenson) writes:
> Um:
> 
> I think Paul makes his meaning clear in the verse (1 Cor. 12-13).
> He says, "Is Christ divided?" (The obvious answer here is "no.")
> "Was Paul crucified for you?" (Obvious answer, "No, Christ was.")
> "Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (Again, obvious answer,
> "No, in the name of Christ.")
> 
> I do not think he means to say that following Christ or not-Christ
> is comparable to the error of following Paul or Appollos or Cephas
> instead of Christ.
> 
> Help me out, here.  Am I missing something?

Well, I think that's absolutely right. It is odd that Paul refers to some who
say, "I am of Christ" in the same sentence as the others; my guess is that he's
talking about just another faction in the church at Corinth. It's sort of like
there are groups with names like "The Church of Christ" today.

But I don't think this is what 'bthurman' was saying; just that those who *say*
"I follow Christ" rather than naming some particular merely-human leader may be
just as sectarian: with which I agree, and I think Paul would have wanted that
to be understood by his readers too. Let me quote part of bthurman's article,
in support of my claim that that's what he meant:

> Did
> Paul say anything to show that some Apollos or Cephas faction was any less a
> part of the Church at Corinth than the ones who said "I am of Christ"?  Could
> it not prove possibly more deceptive to think of one's clique in the church as
> the one that belongs to the Christ in some sense that the others do not?

Quite so. Not merely factional, but self-righteous to boot.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 11:56:05 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ????? on the Second Coming

Dear Claus ;

Look at Colossians1:23 and Heb 9:26.

Also, notice that the KJV says that "Jesus was crucified at the end of the
world."
End of WHAT world ... obviously not the globe as we call it.



Jesse Carnes
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:34:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Confession - helpful or not?

In a message of Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:10:43 EST, received on Wed,  2 Sep 92 04:04 N
Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> wrote:

>>O.K. I don't say that we  * need *  to confess to someone, but I'd like
>>to ask why we don't want to do it. The answer might get us close to
>>seeing why I think God wants us to do it. If I don't want to confess my
>>sin to a brother (as I said, it doesn't have to be a priest/pastor/elder)
>>then I think in 99% of the cases it comes from PRIDE! So why not take
>>this exercise and kill our pride by confessing sin?
>>
>>Wolfgang <><
>>
>
>Well INOYB comes to mind (its none of your business).. I would not say
>PRIDE was the major reason.. The majority of Sin that we occur is towards God,
>and not our fellow brother (all not done in faith is sin according to
>scripture) so the majority of my confession is towards God..

You follow the principle that we should confess to the one we offend. So
if we offend God we should confess to Him and if we offend a fellow man
we should confess to him (and to God, I suppose). I agree with this
position. And I don't want to say that I regard confession to some human
necessary for forgiveness unless I offended the one - here I differ from
our (R)C brethren. But what I indeed believe is that it can indeed be
helpful and profit us if we confess our sins that we committed against
God to someone else. Let me tell you exactly what I find profitable
here:

* It's easier to rebuke Satan if he accuses me again, because I have a
  human witness.

* It helps me resist the temptation the next time, because I know that
  I'd have to go to the same brother again to confess the same sin
  again.

* It weakens my old self that is not willing to humble itself before
  another man.

>What irks me would be to see someone confess to man and then think that it
>is enough, that there is no need to confess to God as well, that is clearly
>wrong.

You pushed things a little too far, didn't you? I never talked of not
confessing to God. This is the essential act! I just said that I think
that confessing to a human (in addition or simultaneously) can be of
great profit.

God bless you

Wolfgang <><
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:31:00 CDT
From:         BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU
Subject:      Re: ????? on the Second Coming

>Dear All ;

>Just an open question :

>"What were the initial RECIPIENTS of Pauline, Petrine, or Johannine letters to
>THINK when their respective Apostolic writers wrote in the following terms?" :

>"Beloved, THIS is the LAST HOUR."  |  "and as YOU hasten its COMING."
>"The END of all things is NEAR."   |
>"... in these LAST DAYS."          |
>"as you SEE the Day approaching."  |

They were also told that with the Lord a day is as a thousand years and a thousa
   nd
years as a day.   God's "day" and man's day do not necessarily coincide.


Brian
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:40:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Spong

From:     Louie Crew <lcrew@EDU.RUTGERS.ANDROMEDA>
Subject:  Re: Spong

>I serve on Diocesan Council, and on its budget committee, which charts
>finances for the Diocese of Newark, where Bishop Spong is our Ordinary.
>
>I cannot imagine getting more for our money!  We have a bishop who not
>only reads (rare these days!) but actually writes books, and writes them
>so well that people read them who do not even have to!   In the past
>the House of Bishops had many who could lay claim to such disctinctions,
>but we have fallen on the blandness of the age.
>
>The first commandment calls upon us to love God with our Minds!  Yet that
>comes as news to millions of people who thought they knew all about all
>commandments.

But of course.  Theology is part of the church is it not ?  Not an stumbling
block as it sometimes appears.

>
>Bishop Spong just sent us his report of his projects completed while he was
>on a mini-sabbatical as a Fellow in England this spring.

I wondered why we hadn't heard much about him over here.  I'd be interested
to hear what he was up to.

>
>Last spring I went for several nights in a row to a packed room in
>Montclair where Bishop Spong held enthralled for over three hours for
>four nights in a row a congregation of some of the most educated
>persons in our society, people who run many of the major institutions in
>New York and northern New Jersey, and what was he talking about during
>all those hours....   The bible, with heavy references to the original
>languages.
>
>You haven't heard about  that?  Why?  Because fundamentalists are
>so sex-crazed that they forget the real fundamentals:  Do justice,
>love mercy, and walk humbly.

I think that may be a little strong. Still I agree that sex does figure
highly in a lot of arguements by those labeled "fundamentals"

Do justice, love mercy and walk humbly.

Go well with God
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol A Long,  					DISCLAIMER - unless otherwise
IT Service,					stated this message contains
Southampton Institute of Higher Education	my opinion...probably only mine
East Park Terrace,
Southampton	SO9 4WW,   England		RELEASE - Repost at will, with
	UK Fax No : (0703) 222259		acknowlegements to author.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:17:44 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer Request

Hi all,

ITESO is having some trouble with the comunication systems so we are not
receiving mail right now, so I dont' know when this is going to reach
you but PLEASE READ.

Last saturday and sunday the sister of a friend of mine got a oija (this is
a wood table used as a game (really a game ?) to talk with satan) They live
in San Juan de los Lagos a small town near here very well know for it's
marian shrine. This is what happened:

Friday: Pepe's girlfriend had a vision where Jesus showed her heaven and the
vision finished with a message: "TELL PEPE THAT I LOVE HIM". she told Pepe
about that.

Saturday: Pepe's sister started to talk with the enemy and Pepe  noticed it
very strong satanic activity is going on at San Juan, many kids murdered
in satanic rites, this is veridial.

Sunday: Pepe's sister ran out of the room where she was 'playing' and went
to her room, took cross and embrased it, she was frightened. Pepe asked
her about what happened. She told him that he knew who was talking with.
Pepe asked what did he said and her sister answered 'he says he is going
to revenge from you, he hates you and he will distroy you. I am
going to be married with my boyfriend in two years, we will have a son
and he will be dedicated to him'. As you can imagine, by this time Pepe
was as scared as his sister and he asked for spiritual help.

As you know Sep 7th. is the day of the Aquelarre, I don't believe in
coincidences.

Please pray for the people of San Juan so that the Lord free them from the
action of the murder of souls.

Thanks

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:54:20 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Re>Election
              14 Sep 1992 17:26:31 EDT from <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>

Dear Leo ;

Sorry ol' bean, but PROORIZO (a.k.a., predestination) has to do with ALL that
comes to pass, even EVIL events.
It is stated in the N.T. that "...Christ was crucified from the foundation of
the world."
Also, as regarding the treachery of Herod, Pilate et al, it is said in the book
of Acts, that "...they did whatsoever your will determined BEFOREHAND
should occur" (as regards their persecution of Christ).


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:00:46 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: prayer/thanks/praise

Carol,

      THank God that although we get stressed at all the prayer requests and
there is too much for us to handle, God is never too busy even for the tiniest
prayer, or the biggest one.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:09:45 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      GOD??? TOO BUSY???

 HE'S never too busy to meet our prayer requests
as long as they are within the boundaries of HIS
will for our lives.
Sometimes, as a college student, I find it too
difficult to even get through my day without
either
calling on his name for strength, or just thanking
him that I got through that class in one piece!
He hears the prayers of Housewifes, workin' moms,
and even FRUSTRATED COLLEGE SENIORS WHO DON'T KNOW
WHEN TO JUST SIT STILL AND HEAR HIS VOICE...
"G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Re>Absolution
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:58:10 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <BuDL39.J2J@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:

>    In my opinion, such Catholics would most likely fall into the
> category of _culpably_ ignorant.  The teaching goes something like
> this: one is morally obligated to be in the church he considers to be
> the true Church.  A Catholic who does not believe the Catholic Church
> to be the true Church commits serious sin by remaining in the Church
> (see "living a lie" above).  Since the Catholic Church teaches she is
> the true Church, and teaches other dogmas as true, one who believes
> her to be the true Church must also accept her dogmas.  One who
> rejects her dogmas thereby rejects that she is the true Church.
> Therefore, he commits serious sin by remaining in a church he does not
> consider true.

But suppose someone considers that there is *no* church on earth which
is "the true Church"; no church on earth that has no false dogmas.
Suppose that person decides that the church whose teachings are "best"
is the RCC; should they be a Roman Catholic, or are they obliged to leave
the RCC because they do not consider it the one true church in your sense?

And is it really the case that the RCC considers it better for someone to
leave the RCC than to remain in it while having (perhaps fairly minor)
disagreements with its teachings? I suppose they might have to be major
disagreements since they would necessarily include disagreeing with the
RC teaching that the RCC is infallible, but ... even so?

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Spiritual Gifts
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:11:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

>
>Can anyone define what spiritual gifts are and how to tell which spiritual
>gifts I may have?
>                                JSTAHLEY@ATHENA.QUALCOMM.COM
>
>                                RECEIVING INSPECTION DEPARTMENT

By now there are plenty of replies pointing to such passages as 
1 Corinthians 12-14 etc. However, I thought I would add this quote
which comes from Howard Carter, an early pentecostal leader:

 "It was made clear to me then, and I have never deviated from the
 conviction, that a gift which is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit
 cannot be also a manifestation of the human spirit."

I throw this quote in because there seem to be as many views on the 
gifts as there are Christians. I feel it is important to bear the 
above definition in mind (with which I fully concur).

As to finding out what gifts you might have, I suggest that you 
concentrate on being a willing disciple of Christ. God may see fit
to use you supernaturally if you are truly open to serve him in 
whatever way he chooses. If he uses you supernaturally through
some gift such as prophecy, you will soon know about it, and if he
does not choose to use you then it will not matter. 

All the best,
  Stephen
-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:15:06 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Al Gore's religious beliefs

Dan:

PS:  That's "Bilderbergers," named for the Bilderberg Hotel in Oosterbeek,
Holland, where their first meeting took place in 1954.  This is another
global reunification group, a sister organization to the Council on
Foreign Relations, and the original source for the plan to unify
Europe.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:44:06 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      very weird rumor

Hi Kerry,
>
>
> At the concert, Ozzy brought his kids onstage, stated that he had become
> a Christian, and said that henceforth he will sing only Christian music.
>
> Any help?
>
I don't know if this is true or not, but it kind of reminded me of Saul
of Tarsus.


   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:22:13 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Prayer Request

I am praying, Memo.
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: ????? on the Second Coming
Date: 13 Sep 92 01:12:24 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92090910014974@ASUACAD.BITNET>, NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes) writes:

> Look at Colossians1:23 and Heb 9:26.
> 
> Also, notice that the KJV says that "Jesus was crucified at the end of the
> world."
> End of WHAT world ... obviously not the globe as we call it.

Um. Is it only the KJV that say that? If so, perhaps it's a mistranslation
or based on inaccurate source documents... The KJV is far from being the most
reliable translation of the Bible.
Where does it say that, anyway? The nearest I can remember is something about
the "Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world" or something of the
kind, which is exactly the opposite.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:51:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Subject lines

Please help
I have a problem you all can solve for me.

Can people please use subject descriptions/ discussion titles
on the subject lines.

I have a lot of in coming post and I like the opportunity to set
certain subjects to one side so that I can veiw them in more detail
later rather than skim through them all.  This is especially the
case with Christia mailings.

You co-operation will be greatly appreciated

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol A Long,  					DISCLAIMER - unless otherwise
IT Service,					stated this message contains
Southampton Institute of Higher Education	my opinion...probably only mine
East Park Terrace,
Southampton	SO9 4WW,   England		RELEASE - Repost at will, with
	UK Fax No : (0703) 222259		acknowlegements to author.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
===============================================================================
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:09:46 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Second Coming already occured

Dear All on Christia ;

Some have asked me for some specifics for my Preterist view, especially
with 2 Peter 3 in mind.
Just be patient, I have not forgotten.
I am just a bit rattled due to a bicycle accident I had this Sunday pm.
I need a day or two to get it together.
However, I did paruse the number of post on this topic this past weekend via
printout.


Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:09:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Homosexuality (again)

<How about "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all
<your soul, and with all your mind."  This is the FIRST and GREATEST
<commandment.  The second is "you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

I was under the impression that Jesus said the second was as important as the
first.  Can someone clarify?

Dan
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