HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: traffic rules
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:38:06
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
	<schinder.715285355@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov's message of 31 Aug 92 18:22:35 GMT

> In fact, wrong way cycling is one of the leading (if not
> *the* leading, I can't remember for sure) cause of car-
> bicycle collisions.

=v= Last I heard, it was *the* leading cause of fatalities
in car/bicycle collisions.
    <_Jym_>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicyc
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 21:54:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <sandrock.715633985@leo> sandrock@leo.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes:
>
>But which group are you referring to?  It seems to me that those who
>wish to engage in a particular activity, e.g., driving a car or speeding
>around a lake in a powerboat, are themselves exercising a form of "control"
>over their environment, making the environment unsuitable for many other
>alternate forms of usage. The desire to at least make people financially
>responsible for the full consequences of their choices seems only fair...
>
Mark, That all sounds good but where do you start drawing the line? What
about the chief problem in the world -- population? Do we charge
people who have children an environmental protection tax? What about
the things that technology can now do?

It is now possible to instrument everyone with recorders that can 
closely monitor the amount of oxygen they breat. This can be then
used to estimate the impact that each person makes on this earth. Using
that information we can tax each individual for the resources that he
uses.

Of course, this all assumes that these resources are jointly held, so
that if I find something, it isn't mine, but all of ours and I must
pay the rest of you for it's use. This is communism.

People who own boats or large cars or motorhomes or bicycles pay
for them both directly and indirectly. Wages are paid to those who
work and those wages are supposedly proportional to the value 
society places on those services. While we may argue with that fact
I. for one, cannot think of any other way of doing it. 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: joeh@ami.sps.mot.com (Joe Hollinger)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicyc
Organization: none
	<1vln1f-.tomk@netcom.com> <mellon.716137923@pepper>
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:18:27


   tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

   >Perhaps you don't understand what's going on?   If I earn $50,000/yr
   >(a good but not great wage in the SF bay area) I will be taxed
   >34% from the federal government and 12% from the state government.
   >(Or is that 18%?) This means that I am paying _46%_ of my income
   >in income taxes alone!

Not to disagree, but don't you get deduct state taxes before computing
federal tax? (we don't have state tax here).
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: pjs@netcom.com (Philip J. Schneider)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 05:02:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep6.093320.2930@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>
> [ . . . a bunch of stuff I've deleted . . .]
>
>I'm tired of Tom's sleazy drivel.  I've avoided having a kill file
>till now, but the time has come.  
> [ . . . yet more deleted stuff  . . . ]

I'm tired of it, too.  Unfortunately, my programming-addled brain
has forgotten the kill file  syntax  for killing an author  (so  to
speack  :-).  Can  some kind soul do me,  and probably others,  a 
favor, and post the info?  (Oh,  I use "rn" . . .)

Thanks!

-- Philip Schneider


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicyc
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 04:37:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep6.011659.27355@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>Tom Kunich says:
>>Les said in so many words that the United States was _run_ by the oil
>>companies. This isn't just incorrect, it's a cheap shot.
>
>I said no such thing.  Tom, do you really think that you will
>accomplish something by continuing to fabricate straw men then burn
>them?  Please do us all a favor and just shut up.

Do you want the exact quote Les?

>Yes, but the group in control is not the one that Tom seems to have in
>mind -- it is the petroleum/motor vehicle establishment that calls the
>shots and has been doing so for the last 60+ years.

As I said, that was both untrue and a cheap shot.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: brunson@davinci.Data-IO.COM (Kaye Brunson)
Subject: Re: Women and Cycling
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:28:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.154817.21355@news.unomaha.edu>, kkrueger@cwis.unomaha.edu (Kurt Krueger) writes:
|> 
|> The "Women and Bicycles" thread made me think of discussion some of us had
|> in our club.  Why aren't there more single women in cycling.  I noted that
|> nearly all the women in our club are in their 40s, are married, and got into
|> cycling because of their husbands.  Now there are a few exceptions to the
|> rule, of course.  But in our big club which has hundreds of members, I have
|> seen not one female who is single, young, and involved in many activities.
|> There are a couple women who almost fit this description, but they come to
|> virtually no rides or meetings.  I don't even know why they're members.
|>    ---stuff deleted continuing this train of thought---

In my local bike club (Cascade Bike Club, Seattle, Washington, (206) 522-BIKE)
there are members of all ages, abilities, and genders.  I'd be hard pressed to
give you a breakdown by age, gender, and maritial status, but it appears to be a
good mix.  One guess as to the reason is that the club usually has rides for a
wide range of abilities, and classifies the rides in the newsletter according to
speed and terrain.  They often have "training rides", which are short and slow (to
me anyway :) )  they also have rides for CATS (Cascade Animal Training Series)
that are *way* to fast and far for me.  :(  There's actually about 5 speed
categories, from "social" to "strenuous".

They also have a hotline, (call that number up above) where people can call in and
find out what the week's rides are, even if they aren't members.  Hopefully  these
folks decide the tiny membership fee is worth it to not have to call in all the
time and they become members.  

By the way, I have been a single, female member since I was about age 28.  Pretty
soon the single part is history.  :)
From: bjaspan@athena.mit.edu (Barry Jaspan)
Subject: Re: Women and Cycling
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:10:35 GMT

Things are very different here in Cambridge/Boston.  On an average day, there
are a significant number of women of all ages riding around; I won't say it's
50/50 because I haven't paid that much attention but it certainly isn't
tremendously male-dominated.  In fact, most of the women I've met recently I
either met because of biking or found out they biked and used it as a method
of seeing them again; it seems to be the rule rather than the exception that
young (the ones I've met range from 20 to 28) women around here are active
bikers.

Of course, demographics is almost certainly involved here.  Virtually all of
the people I know are in some way associated with MIT, and I tend to bike in
areas frequented by MIT and other college types (students, staff, whatever;
the Cambridge/Boston area is full of schools) so I am seeing a highly selected
group of people.

-- 
Barry Jaspan, bjaspan@mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicyc
From: royce@mdcbbs.com (Royce D. Myers EDS/Unigraphics)
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:58:49 GMT
 <1992Sep4.192138.6926@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> <64mnq0k.tomk@netcom.com>
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: royce

In article <64mnq0k.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> 
> I'm sure that there are several CEO's of oil companies that
> would be interested to find out that they are the one's running the
> country, Les.

    What Les _said_ was that oil companies tend to control transportation
    in the United States.  He did not take the leap in logic and claim that
    the CEO's of oil companies were running the country.

    IMHO, their vote tends to count a bit more than yours or mine when it
    comes our government, though.

> The whole point is this -- the world is just a bunch of people trying
> to get by. The oil companies are major employers and they provide products
> like gas, oil and fertilizer that benefit everyone. Politicians would
> only be looking out for their constituencies if they didn't give
> lots of latitude to these sorts of endevours.

    (The last sentence seems even more muddled than the rest of the note.)

    I don't recall this being brought into question.  The point being
    debated is: should our tax system be restructured so that users of a
    resource pay all associated costs of said use?  Insulting Jobst and Les
    doesn't seem to answer the question.

    FWIW: I think it could burden the middle class with a higher tax
    burden, and being taxed enough as it is, I don't like that.  To
    explain:

    We are shifting the burden from some general set of taxes to the
    specific users.  Consumption of gas for the individual does not vary as
    much as income does: the number of gallons a person buys per month
    might range from zero (good biker :)) to 400 (bad commuter :)), while
    the amount of income taxes paid in this population is likely to vary
    much, much more.  Therefore, rich people will tend to pay less towards
    taxes (since their gas use will not vary as far from the mean as their
    income does), and poor people might get a slight benefit.  The losers
    are those of us in the middle.

    Note that this is the same as asking users of mass transit to pay the
    full cost!  This should only be the case if they carry bicycles :)
    [oBBike]

-- 
Royce Myers			EDS Unigraphics
royce@mdcbbs.com 		"Work is the curse of the drinking class"
					-- W. C. Fields
From: brockr@muvaxa.rferl.org (Train, Learn, Climb, Ride)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Women and Bicycles
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:47:00 GMT
Organization: Radio Free Europe
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  Subject:  Women and Bicycling

  Are we beating a dead horse here?  Should this topic even be in rec.bicycles
or, perhaps, instead , in rec.bicycles.sexism?  C'mon guys, I thought we
were cyclists!!!???  I think the issue of  wether or not women are more adept
mechanically, engineerically (new word) or whatever, is not an issue.
Any thought on this topic, or any other topic for that matter, is purely
subjective. Your world, my world and anyone else's world is purely a matter of
subjective interpretation regardless of sex.  If in your experience you
believe that women cannot perform feats of engineering then, so be it.
However,   some of the comments made concerning this topic were, I believe,
unecessary.  Bringing "little girls" and things of that nature into the
subject was a bit uncalled for and extremely tacky.  Might we not drop this
subject altogether before someone gets highly offended???

  Richard Brock
  Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
  Munich, Germany
  BROCKR@RFERL.ORG
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold)
Subject: Re: women working on bikes
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:31:54 GMT

In article <BuD46w.9LK@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
>  There were some studies which have shown differences between males and
>females in spacial, mathematical and language skills.  However, as Jobst pointed
>out, individual variation is far greater. 
>...  Most of the women I have met are utterly unable to dissassemble or
>reassemble anything.  
> - Eric  
There are great genetic differences between men and women affecting
behaviour;  there are also great differences in socialization.  The
important thing to me is that no unfairness occur because people
overgeneralize and discriminate.  There was a study mentioned in a
recent Science magazine article on women in science.  A math paper
was marked with fictitious names, male or female -- but the contents
were the same.  Math people were asked to score the paper.  Male
scorers scored it MUCH lower if the author's name was female.  Female
scorers scored it somewhat lower if the author's name was female.
Presumably the same sort of discrimination occurs all the time in
real life, and explains why very few women have jobs as math professors.

Perhaps most women you know are unable or unwilling to disassemble
things.  However, some, I presume, are not.  The important thing to me
is that people avoid a careless choice of words which would intimidate
and discourage those women who do have the ability and willingness
to disassemble things.  For example, having read what you wrote
I would now be very reluctant to disassemble anything in your
presence for fear (perhaps unjustified) of being ridiculed if I
did anything wrong.  Perhaps some of your aquaintances are in the
same boat.

I was really annoyed once when I was buying a bicycle and the salesman
said, "Maybe you have a friend who's good with tools, and HE can put
the fenders on for you."  In fact, I was better with tools than the
male friends I had at the time.  I'm sorry that I just meekly didn't
say anything.  These sorts of statements can sap a person's confidence.

There are exceptions to everything.  There are probably LOTS of women
who are good with mechanical things.  Around my house, my husband
claims he can't do anything mechanical, but I like to do that sort
of thing, so I'm the one that fixes things.

I used to take my unicycle and bicycle apart and fix them.  I never have
time for that anymore so I either pay somebody to do it or just ride
a bike that isn't adjusted right.  (Well, sometimes I still fix it a bit.)
I'm very short of time because I'm a mother with a full-time job who
probably spends a lot more time with her offspring than the typical
father with a full-time job.  Woops, let's not overgeneralize:  I'm
sure there are some fathers who spend a lot of time with their kids.

Cathy Woodgold
woodgold@seismo.emr.ca  OR  woodgold@emr1.emr.ca
There is so such a thing as a free lunch!
(This posting is from me personally and does not represent
the policy of any organization.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: rvanderb@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rian van der Borgt)
Subject: riding against traffic; bikepaths
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 20:54:59 GMT

 
 
I almost can't believe that someone would even consider to ride
against traffic. Here (in the Netherlands, that is) noone would
ever think of it. I never heard of riding against traffic until
I read the thread in this newsgroup. The law here simply forbids
it. Only pedestrians are allowed to walk against the traffic,
if there is no sidewalk or bikepath.
So, noone would expect cyclists to ride against traffic. It is
considered to be _very_ _dangerous_.
I don't know what the situation is in the rest of (western)
Europe, but I don't expect it to be very different from here.
 
And now about the bikepaths...:)
Here most bikepaths are on the side of the roads and cyclists
(almost) always have to use them.
Again, no cyclist wouls consider to use the road when there's
a good bikepath. (The majority of the paths are in a reasonable
condition.) And the bikepaths are considered much safer than
the roads. And drivers are more 'bike-aware', I think. On
crossings, for instance they _do_ check the bike paths when they
turn right or left. (If they didn't, many accidents would
occur...the cyclists have the right of way in such a situation.)
 
I belive, from what I read in this newsgroup, that bikes here
(in the Netherlands :-) are used much more than in the USA.
Here, a bike _is_ considered as a means to go from A to B (to
go shopping, to go to work, to school, to go out, etc).
From my 12th to my 18th I rode to school (12 km) every day,
and so did 75% of the rest of the students (or pupils? what do
you call them?) (well, not everybody rode 12 km, of course :-)
Someone said that the number of cars would be about 100 times
the number of bikes on the road. Well, I think that here,
especially during rush hour, they are not far from equal.
(i'm not sure; I don't have any numbers to prove it right now
but in rush hour _really big_ groups of cyclists can be seen
riding to the university or school or the railway station or..)
[I just read an article in which was said that the number of
cyclists in traffic varies from 20% (Amsterdam) to 40% (Delft);
mmm...not bad]
 
Now, don't think that no accidents ever occur here. There are
peolple who think that everybody should get out of their way
when they're driving. Those people _do_ get involved in accidents
with cyclists (and other cars of course) but, from what I read,
my overall impression is, that drivers in the USA should be more
'cyclist-aware' and that the government(s) should pay more
attention to and spend more money on good and safe bikepaths.
 
So far my 2 cents worth... :)
(YES! My first post!)
 
Rian van der Borgt
email to: u249011@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Subject:  Corvallis, Eugene, Portland Bike Ride Routes Wanted 
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Oregon State University
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 23:27:19 GMT

  If anyone has DETAILED rides (like maybe the bike clubs) on rides
  in and around Corvallis, Eugene and Portland, Oregon, plese drop me
  a note.
  
  My email address is REIDYJ@storm.cs.orst.edu
  My mailing address is: c/o International Student Center
			 Snell Hall 4th Floor
			 Oregon State University
			 Corvallis, Oregon 97331

  Thanks very much!  I'm looking for about 100 of each if you can help out!
  I'd like info about terrain, distance, sag stops, parks, scenary, etc.
From: ianf@random.se (Ian Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: _New Cyclist_ and British Rail.
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:11:12 GMT
Organization: random design -- "Opinions, cheaply"
Apparently-To: rnews@sunet.se
X-Hear: Sally's (Meg Ryan's) fake diner orgasm now available as plug-in
X-This: charger sound for the Apple PowerBook; reason enough to buy one
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.2b2


  Zalman Stern <zstern@adobe.com> writes on
# Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:29:13 GMT
  in regard to the subject matter:

#> For the UK-ites, there was a review/article in New Cyclist about
#> taking bike-like objects on a train... was it a "protest" sort
#> of mission??)

# This is the second reference I've heard to this article.  It
# sounds like a good bit of humour.  Can anybody give more details,
# like the specific issue of this magazine?


  FYI: the referenced article, written by Dan Joyce, titled "A week
  on wheels" (in New Cyclist June 92, p.  73), was a list of '10 tips
  for cycle groups and individuals to get active and get noticed
  during National Bike Week.'

 Tip #5: Push to get bikes on trains.  Lobby British Rail [...]. 
     Or run a media campaign -- try to board a local train, en 
     masse, with bikes, folding bikes, and cardboard cutouts of
     bikes and mattresses. 

  An earlier notice mentioned somebody successfully boarding a train
  with a refrigerator with a bicycle front fork and wheel mounted
  atop, Marcel-Duchamp-style.  Of course, a refrigerator, wheels or
  no wheels, in never a bicycle ;-))


--Ian
From: adam@cbmcats.UUCP (Adam Keith Levin-Delson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Let's be careful out there
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:26:19 GMT
Organization: Commodore Applications and Technical Support

In article <+3yn9zm.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <BuKM73.9vq.2@cs.cmu.edu> moore+@CS.CMU.EDU (Dale Moore) writes:
> >
> > 	WEST CHESTER, Pa. (UPI) -- A 20-year-old Montgomery County man has
> > been convicted of fatally shooting a 13-year-old dirt bike rider in the
> > back because he blocked the roadway.
> > 	The Chester County jury convicted Fernando Garcia of third degree
> > murder in the August 1991 death of Thomas Mumma.
> > 	According to testimony Mumma was riding home on a country road when
> > he was approached by two carloads of teens going to a barbecue. Mumma,
> > apparently by accident, pulled into the middle of the road, forcing the
> > cars to swerve and brake.
> > 	As Mumma sped off, Garcia climbed out of a car, took aim with a .22-
> > caliber pistol and fired, striking him in the back.
> > 	Garcia faces 10 to 20 years in prison when he comes up for
> > sentencing. No sentencing date has been set.

[I've re-included the entire post because (due to an oddity of my company's
posting system) some people who never saw the original will see this reply.]


>Yep, wouldn't you know it. A man takes out a gun, aims it at someone's back
>and then kills them and it is declared _third_ degree murder.

I would think it should be second degree as Garcia had to have known the
possible consequence of his actions.  I'll see if I can find more info on
the incident for the group.

Another poster wondered if a "dirt bike" was necessarily a pedal-powered bike.
I don't have confirmation, but I believe this was a gas-powered dirt bike.


>I know I'll really rush to West Chester, PA.

"NOT!", right?

West Chester is the county seat of Chester county.  That's where the trial
took place, not necessarily the incident.  Again, I'll see if I can get
more info and followup.

This story is hardly the norm.  I've lived in West Chester for the past four
years.  Over the past three years I've cycled about 5,000 miles within a radius
of 30 miles from WC: Philadelphia to the East, Wilmington (DE) to the South and
Lancaster (PA) to the West.  The occasional maturity-challenged car passenger
buzzes by screaming at me ("Help, I've fallen, and I can't grow up!"?) but I've
never felt that I was the target of aggression.  Most drivers give me enough
room when they pass, and I've only been cut-off twice.  I can't say that West
Chester is particularly bicycle friendly, but it isn't anti-bicycle either.


Adam Levin-Delson  CATS - Commodore Applications and Technical Support
UUCP: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!adam domain: adam@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
BIX: aklevin   mail: 1200 Wilson Drive / West Chester, PA 19380 USA
voice: +1 215.431-9180   fax: +1 215.429-0643
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Riding on the wrong side
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:11:06 -0500

To: all 
 On 09-03-92 jrdodd wrote to All... 
 
 j >  What makes you think these cyclists are on the wrong side? 
 j >  from down here,  *everyone* in North America seems to be on the 
 j > wrong side! 
 
Certainly. However even "Down Under" responsible cyclists ride with the flow 
of traffic, whether it be on the right or left.  Those who ride against 
the flow not only endanger themselves, but are a major hazzard to cyclists 
riding in the proper direction. 
 
... OFFLINE 1.36 * Comes the Revolution, we'll all eat peaches and cream 

 * Origin: Two Wheelers - The Bicylists' Communications Link (1:106/88)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc