HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 16:22:28 -0500
From:         mjferzig@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: female rock bands

>    This is humor, yes?  If not I'd like to formally say that I am
>personally offended, and I don't have "bosoms".  I can't wait to hear
>from our "catty" "sexpot"s that is if their not to busy spending
>"$$ on new clothes."
>

Gee dave, I meant to write to this sooner, but I was like, y'know, out like
shopping, y'know? I had to go , like, buy something in,like, gold lame for
like, women, y'know, with only one breast. See, like, I had to cut th other
one off, like, because it was getting in the way of my, like,m totally
tubular accordion! Y'know? Fer shure!

I REALLY hope that list was a joke....I'm not that easily offended, but
c'mon, we live in the 1990's, not the 1890's!

You now have Marsha's view on this sexist crap.

Marsha, a moderately intellegent, triumphantly two-breasted woman.

Marsha J. Ferziger
University of Chicago School of Law
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:58:30 -0500
From:         jkh2001@ANDY.BGSU.EDU
Subject:      Re: punk rock stuff

        Alright, that's it, I've had it.  Ladies and gentlemen, may I
remind you what season we're in.  It's Christmas for those of you who
haven't noticed.  A time for a little love, compasion, friendship, and
understanding.  A time when one person was born who would give all he had
for his fellow man.  Maybe we should all sit back and think a bout this for
a second.
        We are all acting like Ben is the devil himself.   Even if he is,
he is entitled to his own opinion and does not deserve to be called a
fucking moron by anyone.  We all claim to be adults here and yet we sit
around and bicker about a lifestyle or a type of music like little
children.  "Well, Ben started it."  So who gives a shit?  He's entitled.
Granted, he may not have picked the best way to express his opinion, but he
still has just as much right to this net as the rest of  us.
        Think about what we're all acting like.  Think about how many
problems there are out there bigger than you or me or this silly net.
Think about how unbelievably petty we're all being.  THINK.....

Jeremy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:49:45 CST
From:         Paul Heroy <HEROY@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Xmas favorites, Thumper's Xmas cheer
              15 Dec 1992 08:17:33 CST from <crispen@EFFTOO.BOEING.COM>

My fave Christmas stuff is probably Coltrane's Greensleeves and My Favorite
Things. Some of the stuff on Wynton's Crescent City Christmas is pretty
good. I hear Alligator has great blues and Cajun Xmas compilations. Hmmm...
guess I have little use for the 'standard' Christmas repertoire :-)

ObSappiness :-) Marsha's note last night was very nice to read - Happy
Holidays and Christmas Cheer to everybody out there! (Marsha, I can't wait
for you to get your CD player so you can listen to Kind of Blue! :-)

Paul Heroy
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 18 Dec 1992 11:45:46 CST
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Lemonheads

In article <ALLMUSIC%92121721520609@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>, Michael
<EVK102@URIACC.URI.EDU> says:
>
>The Lemonheads are a group somewhat like the Decendants, 7 Seconds,
>Greenday, etc.  If you like this kind of stuff, I suggest buying Create
>Your Friends, which is a combination of two different albums (sort of
>raw and hard.)

Which LPs are on this? One of 'em has to be "Hate Your Friends",but is the
other one "Lick"?

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So much for frivolous lawsuits.**
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:53:27 EST
From:         Michael <EVK102@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      re: Lemonheads

I think the other recording that is a part of Create your friends is simply
"Create."  'Nuff said.

-Michael
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:58:44 EST
From:         Kimberly Wasilewski <ST92CPO6@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: punk rock stuff

I want to know, just what the hell is going on.  It seems to me that no one
knows anything about punk/hardcore, I don't so I can't much, but half the
time someone is telling this story, which is interesting, if you had nothing
else to do.  Why don't we talk about another subject, someone pick something
maybe.....interesting??
         Bored
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:44:00 EST
From:         BEHR5606@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      SET ALLMUSIC NOMAIL

DON'T SEND MESSAGES THIS BREAK!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"allmusic@auvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:34:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      Negativland

The current issue of Mondo 2000 has a rather interesting little article
about the Negativland-U2 thing.  Seems the Edge likes the magazine so
U2's office set up a phone interview.  The magazine thought it would
be amusing to have two of the people from Negativland help conduct
the interview.  Of course, they did not reveal this to the Edge until
half-way through the interview; i.e. until after several leading
questions had been asked.  At the end of the interview, the guys
from Negativland say they've decided to go back to being their
own record label and they hit the Edge up for a loan to get started.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 18 Dec 1992 11:39:11 CST
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Negativland

In article <ALLMUSIC%92121716502462@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>, MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
says:
>
>The current issue of Mondo 2000 has a rather interesting little article
>about the Negativland-U2 thing.

Oh,great. You just _had_ to mention this when I was about to dump M2000 in
my "overpriced and overrated" fanzine list,although that was a pretty
cool piece on Elliot Sharp and Glen Branca they published a while back.
Since they were good enough to publish the interview,a may even have to
shell the $5-plus they usually charge per issue.

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So much for frivolous lawsuits.**
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:32:02 CST
From: <KANTOLA@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Northern Pikes

I don't know if this has been answered already but are the Northern Pikes still
in existence??  I have their disc and like it a lot but I've heard absolutely
nothing about concerts or new albums... ever.  Any info would be great. Thanks!

Keith (KANTOLA@VM1.NODAK.EDU)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:13:22 EST
From:         Scott Hammer <SCOTH@WMVM1.CC.WM.EDU>
Subject:      Lenny's ?'s and Renaissance Christmas

>What is the strangest/wildest album cover you've seen.
The first Garcia solo album:  Lots of dials and meters, cogs and wheels,
and body parts.  Has a *severe* impact when under the influence of certain
psychoactive substances, as does the recording

>What is your favorite album cover.
Weather Report - Heavy Weather

>What is the strangest/wildest band name.
A former girlfriend who is originally from the Boston area told me
that when she was in college there (BU, I think) there was a hardcore
band making the rounds by the name of Smegma and the Nuns from Hell --
does that qualify?

>Favorite band name.......How did Pink Floyd come up with their name.
Hard for me to separate a band's name from the music, but I always liked
the names:

o Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys
o Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen
o Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks

(sense a pattern here?)

Ken and Marsha may be interested in this.  I went out and bought a CD
called _A Renaissance Christmas_ by The Boston Camerata yesterday, after
hearing it on our local classical station.  Good Stuff!  Its some
a capella, some accompanied, all from the 15th and 16th centuries.
Check it out!

-Scott "Who Was Once in a Band Called the Bunn Hill Boys" Hammer
 College of William and Mary
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:19:00 EST
From:         jc-s <GE777009@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: President-elect Clinton fails the ALLMUSIC

>
>Sorry, but I think the PresElect's choices suck, too.  Of course
>anyone who gets to be President has got to be so monomaniacally
>interested in politics that he hasn't got that much time to educate
>him/herself musically.
>+-------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
>| Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen        | If metal is responsible for violence |
>| crispen@foxy.boeing.com       |  then C&W is responsible for incest  |
>+-------------------------------+--------------------------------------+

I agree. Kenny G? gag. Maybe we need to make Bill a tape.

we could fill it with the genre he likes, quiet and drowsy sort of
music that is reminiscent of kenny g, and some decent vocals
that put Michael "nice hair" bolton.

jenna
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:35:00 EST
From:         WERT7176@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Newbie Spamfest [PMRC Rated R]

Date sent:  17-DEC-1992 13:21:55
>From:  IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"  "Discussions on all forms of Music" 15-DEC-19
   92 22:20:56.98
>To:    IN%"BEHR5606@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "Behr 5606", IN%"CRAIGHM@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"
     "HARRIETTE CRAIG", IN%"SHEP3686@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "CHRIS SHEPPARD", IN%"TRI
   C6536@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "Vincenzo A. Tricozzi", IN%"WERT7176@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"
     "Ben Werth"
>CC:
>Subj:  RE: Newbie Spamfest [PMRC Rated G]
>

Listen Tim this yelling back and forth shit is getting real fucking boring.
The bands I talk about like a "thesaurus" and listen to them for their
obscurity really aren't that obscure.  If you were any way involved with
the punk/hardcore scene you would have heard of most of these bands, and
probably even know some of them on a personal level.  Anyway I guess I'll
stop my crying and talk about hardcore.  Take care Timmy and thanks for
putting a smile on my face.

In love with your mom,
The one they call Ben
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:20:13 EST
From:         Scott Hammer <SCOTH@WMVM1.CC.WM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: More bandwaste for the holidays
              17 Dec 1992 15:25:48 GMT from <bt979@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:25:48 GMT Jeff Preston said:
>  My vote for most bizarre band name is Lesbian Dopeheads On Mopeds (an
>obvious play on Gaye Bikers On Acid, which is a fairly strange band name
>on its own).
>
Not a band name per se, but . . .
According to my sister, a San Francisco resident, every year, the S.F.
Gay/Lesbian Pride Day Parade features a contingent of lesbians on
Harley-Davidsons, under the banner Dykes on Bikes.

-Scott "I'm Not Making This Up" Hammer
 College of William and Mary
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:52:50 EST
From:         Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
Subject:      Mrs Robinson with lemon head (this is no MHB megapost)

Sonia:

> I guess the punk-nasties are getting to me.  I was also angry to hear that the
> brilliant Ilia was stamped REJECT by the GRE and I mean to do something about
> that.

Ah, never before has quoting been that pleasant! Sonia, don't worry,
the KGB hitmen are already on their way. :) :)

Last night I was listening to Sonia's blues tape, and when it was over,
decided to turn on the radio and try to tune to some blues radio
station. I ended up listening to New York public radio, which was quite
enjoyable. (The drastic difference in the quality of private and
state-owned stations in this country is gonna turn me back to
Communism. :)) Among numerous tunes unknown to me, they played Simon
and Garfunkel's mega-hit 'Missis Robinson' performed by Lemon Heads.
It was a very fine version, quite close to the original, but with
a heavy guitar blended into the music, which created a new level of
energy and added a soft touch of punkish sarcasm. Anybody heard of the
band? It was hard to tell what music they'd play once they are done with
covers.

       Ilia.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:49:29 EST
From:         Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Negativland

> Oh,great. You just _had_ to mention this when I was about to dump M2000 in
> my "overpriced and overrated" fanzine list,although that was a pretty
> cool piece on Elliot Sharp and Glen Branca they published a while back.
> Since they were good enough to publish the interview,a may even have to
> shell the $5-plus they usually charge per issue.

     I thought this might be relevant here: in the early years of what
some people call 'Perestroyka' (khe-khe), out of the flood of so-called
'independent' publications there appeared a very interesting magazine
called _Rodnik_ (smth. like _Source_). It was published in Latvia in
both native and Russian languages, and was dedicated primarily to new
(or not so new) forms of expression in art, although with the years
it gradually shifted to discussions of local political events, and
most part of the issue became occupied by young writers with Latvian
names. About three years ago they had a lengthy article about Elliot
Sharp and the place of noise in music (featuring a picture of Sharp
with his new album in one hand, and his shoes in the other). At the time
the article was quite amusing, since it talked about a wide variety of
musicians (mostly on the free-jazz scene), who were never mentioned
before in any russian publications (actually there was a long appendix
to the article explaining who those people were and why they were so
famous). Since then, the name of Elliot Sharp became associated with
a wonderful and mysterious world of strange people, whose music I never
heard, and could barely hope to hear ever in my life...
    Should I add that a couple months ago Sharp was playing in New
York. My financial assets could hardly suffice for getting close to
the place of his concert, much less to get in. But I could afford a
phone call to a special service that allows you to listen (over the
phone) to one or two songs of any performer who is currently in town...
I listened to Sharp for about 30 seconds, then hung up, and never
regretted it. Or should I?
      Ilia.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:18:38 +0000
From:         "OUT,
              OUT - YOU'LL NOT FEEL THE FALL-OUT..." <OLIVOTTO@ITNCISCA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Album Covers

>From: Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
>Subject: RE: Album Covers

>      Funny, I never realized that Dean's covers were actually pictures
>of quite large size. I came across some originals of the covers for
>YES and Uriah Heap in a small gallery in San Francisco. Of course, they

        Er... it may sound silly to ask, but not after my yesterday's
message: WHICH gallery? :) :)

        Ciao, Marco

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Dreams, hopes and promises - fragments out of time                      *
* All of these things have been spoken                                    *
* Still, you don't understand how it feels when I am                      *
* Waiting for them to be broken                                           *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marco Olivotto, C.I.S.C.A. - Univ. degli Studi di Trento, POVO (TN) - ITALY
olivotto@itnvax.cineca.it                                 OLIVOTTO@ITNCISCA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Priority:     normal
X-mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:34:04 CST
From:         Dave <USTS060@RUST1.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Frustration...non-musical -Reply

> On Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:02:12 CST crispen said:
> >You made way too much sense there, Rev. Dave.  You ought to watch
> >out for that -- there are people who would be put in serious jeopardy
> >if too many of us started thinking like rational adults.
>
> I agree "The Rev" made sense, but keep in mind it's the same defense that
> is used against gun control. "Guns don't kill people people kill people"
> So what we should say is "Sex doesn't cause disease, people cause disease"
> ....L. "No occifer i haven't deen brinkin" W.

    I know I should let this die, it's in no way musically related,
but damn.  I'm really uncomfortable with the gun analogy.  I hate
guns.  See no reason for their existence.  Guess that's all I really
wanted to say.
======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall                |  "It's not the voting that's
usts060@rust1.dpo.uab.edu     |   democracy, it's the counting.
                              |     -- Tom Stoppard
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:30:50 -0500
From:         jkh2001@ANDY.BGSU.EDU
Subject:      re: names & covers

Favorite Band Names:
        Woofing Cookies, Escaped Fetal Pigs, Holy Cows, Sheepish Grin, Ben
Dover & the Screamers

KJtW
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:08:56 -0500
From:         mjferzig@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Mr. Bungle

>On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:29:05 CST crispen said:
>>+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
>>| Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen     | Knock knock. Who's there? Phillip Glass.|
>>| crispen@foxy.boeing.com    | Knock knock. Who's there? Phillip Glass.|
>>|                            | KnoCk knock. Who's there? Phillip Glass.|
>>|                            | Knock knock. WhO's there? Phillip Glass.|
>>|                            | Knock knock. Who's there? Phillip Glass.|
>>|                            | Knock knock. Who's theRe? Phillip Glass.|
>>|                            | Knock knock. Who's there? Phillip GlAss.|
>>+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
>>
>You are a sick, sick person.  Please get professional help immediately!
>Didn't I warn you about eating those mushrooms?
>
>-Scott "Stunned (Nearly) Speechless" Hammer
> College of William and Mary

Hey, bob - I liked it a lot. Don't listen to Scott. I personally can't
really handle more than about 30 seconds of Glass at a time - so I found
the sig really great! Keep me smiling, folks - it's finals crunch time!


Marsha

P.S. You're forgiven on the "women thing" - sorry I got my feminist streak
up....


Marsha J. Ferziger
University of Chicago School of Law
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:37:00 EST
From:         WERT7176@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: punk rock stuff

Date sent:  14-DEC-1992 21:29:00
>From:  IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"  "Discussions on all forms of Music" 14-DEC-19
   92 19:01:42.30
>To:    IN%"BEHR5606@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "Behr 5606", IN%"CRAIGHM@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"
     "HARRIETTE CRAIG", IN%"SHEP3686@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "CHRIS SHEPPARD", IN%"TRI
   C6536@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"  "Vincenzo A. Tricozzi", IN%"WERT7176@SNYPLAVA.BITNET"
     "Ben Werth"
>CC:
>Subj:  RE: Carol don't like me>
>ben spewed:
>
>>    Being into Mr. Bungle and Primus isn't really worth anything to me,
>>though I'm not going to kill myself over it.  "There's nothing really
>>devastating enough to scream about these days."  Where have you been living
>>in a cave.
>
>And where have you been living?  In a mosh pit?  I hardly think that
>constitutes enough to claim to be the Custodian of the Total Perspective
>Vortex.
>
>>Wow I wish I could live in your make believe world of Chilly
>>Pepper wanna be's funkin' it up.  Why don't you turn on the tv and harvest
>>the crust from your eyes.  Here's some stuff to sing about if you feel like
>>starting a punk band:  For starters you could sing about oppression.  It's rea
   l
>>popular to oppress anyone or anything that isn't a white middle class
>>herterosexual male.  Sexism is rappant in our society, racism is rappant in
>>our society, homophobia is rappant in our society, animals our being
>>murdered and oppressed for their flesh, our environment is being destroyed
>>at an alarming rate, people our starving... unfortunetly I could go on all
>>day but this is a music list and I'm sure you people want to just forget about
>>your problems and just let them take care of themselves.
>
>One large step to solving these problems is tolerance and compassion -- neither
>of which you've displayed with your last seven sickening messages. I think
>you're causing more problems with your pissy attitude than you're solving...
>Grow up.
>
>>There's more to
>>music than a funky bass line and cool video's on mtv.
>
>And there's more to life than sweating and slammin' in a mosh pit and
>screaming, "oh woe, oh woe, oh fucking woe"..
>
>Time to modify the auto-kill files, folks...
>
>Hugs and kisses,
>- Carol
>

My dear sweet beautiful carol,
     Tolerance and compassion?  Carol, baby, you have know idea how much
tolerance and compassion I have.  How could you?  After all you've only
read a couple of messages that I've wrote, and hell they weren't even
written to you.  You do make one good point though, there is more to life
than sweating and slammin' in the mosh pit.  Hardcore/punk isn't about
slammin', but you wouldn't know because you rely on mtv and other forms of
media for up to the minute punk flash.  Ignorance is bliss baby, and you
must be very happy.

Forever faithful to my new found love,
ben
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:04:02 EST
From:         Kimberly Wasilewski <ST92CPO6@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: punk rock stuff

I think everyone is being too serious it's the holidays.  We are all grown up
and know that the problems of today's world are not going away by themselves.
Now, Everyone is soooo pissed, why doesn't everyone clam the hell down!!!