HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nadsap@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Beacon)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: How do you end an interview?
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:48:00 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I had an interview yesterday that became rather uncomfortable for me.  In the
middle of the interview, one of the interviewers told me what the salary 
range was (and it was way below anything I would consider).  At that point
I knew that I wasn't interested in the position any longer, but I wasn't
sure how to end the interview.

The interview continued for another 10-15 minutes and they finally asked if
I had any questions or comments.  I basically said the scope of the job was
not what I was looking for.  Should I have mentioned the low pay? Should I
have stopped the interview as soon as I knew I was no longer interested?
If so, how would you do that?

Thanks
Mike
NADSAP@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Observations at software firms
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:50:49 GMT

Keep this OUT of misc.jobs.OFFERED.

In article <1992Jul23.143315.10884@HQ.Ileaf.COM> bcking@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christine King) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.210440.15681@mv.mv.com> kgg@mv.mv.com (Kenn Goutal) writes:
>>
>>Hmmm...  Where's my flameproof suit?  (I can almost remember the trade
>>name for the fabric, but being on the wrong side of 40, I'm having a
>>single-bit failure and can't retrieve it.  So HA.)
>
>It's "Nomex".  I'm 50.  The one I forget is "Goretex".
>
>-- 
>  Christine King
>    Internet: bcking@hq.ileaf.COM
>    US Mail:  Interleaf, Inc. / 9 Hillside Avenue / Waltham MA 02154 USA
From: 89500831@dcu.ie (Ronnie Albuquerque)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Usenet newsgroups postings
Date: 29 Jul 1992 12:40:26 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

QUERY::

I'm only on the Internet, with no access to the Usenet. Does anyone know
if the postings from misc.jobs.* are archived anywhere?

Any other alternative suggestions/comments will be greatly welcomed.

Thanks for any help


Ronnie Albuquerque
89500831@vax1.dcu.ie
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs461a09)
Subject: Is over qualification a valid reason for rejection.
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:13:18 GMT


	Is over qualification a valid basis for rejection
	--------------------------------------------------

	
I am a thirty year old registered professional Civil Engineer
(green card holder).  I have M.S. (Civil/ Structures) degree, and
also an equivalent degree of B. S. (Computer Science).  I actually
have done 7 courses in computer science from University of
Maryland.  My experience covers Civil Construction, Civil
Structural Design, CIVIL ENGG. COMPUTER PROGRAMMING.

	I got laid off in October 1991 due to slump in residential
real estate.  I have tried to enter pure computer programming as
civil engg. job market is very tight in Maryland.  I am not able
to get even a single job in computer programming.  From last 9
months I am sitting at home.  I studied some more computer science
courses in the mean time.  

	I tried to find out why I am getting rejected in so many
companies.  My friend informed me that the reason I was rejected
by his company was due to OVER qualification.

	I am having tough time in my physical survival.  I am ready
to do work as low as $ 9.00 per hour or even lower, but it seems
to me that it could become reason for rejection.  I have excellent
references from my last employers.

	Why the employer is worried about over qualification?  If he
is so much worried about the employee leaving job then he could
ask for some contract or bond.  In these days I have to make sure
about my physical survival today, so that I can dream about golden
tomorrow.


Thank you,

Avinash Apte.

e_mail   cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Security Clearance
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:35:58 GMT

I keep hearing credit history mentioned. Is this a problem is you have
outstanding debt or do they also count late payments on debt that was
eventually payed off against you?

-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: international software jobs
Summary: New association to help software pros work overseas
Keywords: international software jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:08:03 GMT

From icpa Tue Jul 28 20:35:51 1992
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:35:48 -0700
From: icpa (Tony Rodriguez)
To: icpa
Subject: post failed
Status: OR

/usr/local/bin/inews: article in /members/members/icpa/dead.article

Your response has been saved in ~/dead.letter

Your article/letter follows:
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: International Software Jobs
Summary :New Association for Software Pros Helps Them Find Jobs Overseas
Keywords: International Software Jobs


The International Computer Professional Association is a new organization
for software people interested in working overseas. The ICPA is an
international network of software professionals and technical recruiters.
Members have contact with over 750 firms through out the world who are
looking for technical pros. For more information on joining the ICPA call
(415) 695 - 7618 or email to icpa@holonet.net.

International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, Ca 94114
USA
Fax (415) 252 - 5769
Tel (415) 695 - 7618
email icpa@holonet.net



Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: Pet Peeve "No E-mail"
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:48:14 GMT

mattel@auto-trol.com (Matt Telles) writes:

>Sigh.  No, e-mail is *nowhere* as efficient or easy as FAX.  As a point of
>interest, I have a FAX machine in my basement.  I FAX resumes to companies and
>recruiters (both my own and others) all the time.  Why don't you have one?  They
>only run a couple hundred dollars and make communication virtually
>instantaneous.

Lets see, the terminal cost me $10, the modem is borrowed or given to me,
and the account is in exchange for some work. Also I could put a fax modem
on a PC and send e-mail. Faxes are crummy, not as good as laser prints, so
I go to the local laser printer with my troff and make a nice hardcopy if
I absolutely have to. By the way, I don't think it is too much to make the
effort to snail hard copy if the recruiter and the job are good candidates
to work with, but not your sight unseen contact. He rates e-mail, first.

I like e-mail. One thing I like to do is to compose a cover letter in
response to the announcement with the ascii resume appended. It gives you
a chance to amplify you skills to speak to the job without destorting the
sense of your resume.

Since a fair number of recruiters want to retype your resume, it is potentially
easier for them to edit from an ascii version in e-mail rather than to 
retype it from scratch. I have a friend who is a recruiter. She has to
invest a couple of thousand dollars in a scanner and OCR software to convert
hardcopy into word processing files she can modify.

Bruce Salem

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mrose@kali.stsci.edu (Mike Rose)
Subject: Re: Pet Peeve "No E-mail" Was (Re: Software Engineers - Applications Programming (MA/AZ) CIS (Recruiter))
Reply-To: mrose@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
	<MROSE.92Jul20101211@kali.stsci.edu>
	<salem.711865124@pangea.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:22:15 GMT


On 23 Jul 92 04:18:44 GMT, salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) said:
>mrose@kali.stsci.edu (Mike Rose) writes:

>>Did you notice that the resumes are going to someone other than the
>>original poster?  Do you care?  And is putting a stamp on an envelope
>>really that much trouble?  

>	Now, wait, isn't this technology about saving trees and being
>able to respond quickly and timely? 

No, it's not.


>>When I post openings, I accepts email resumes because I want to make
>>it as easy as possible for anyone to send me a resume.  But it's
>>whiners like this that tempt me to put "no email" so that I won't get
>>their resumes.

>	Woa, boy, on a little power trip, are we? Just you wait when the
>tables are turned and their is a glut of recruiters and a shortage of
>skilled people. You will wish you got that resume first and it won't
>matter if you get it in smoke singnals. Just refuse e-mail and I won't
>bother with you. I don't need the turnarond. I have already gotten more
>exposure by sending only e-mail than I would have by spending several
>hundred dollars in faxes, printed resumes, and stamps. And you will
>retype that resume if it is in your interest and mine.

No power trip - it's exactly the same filter you use: you won't bother
sending resumes except in your preferred medium.  Also note that
unlike you I don't do it - every ad I have posted has invited email
resumes.  While I'm tempted to use this as a filter, I don't because
it would probably filter out some resumes I'd like to see; contrast
this with your attitude that any company not accepting email resumes
isn't worth considering.  Who's on a power trip?  Whether sending or
receiving resumes I make it as convienient as I can for the other
party, so the decision of whether to accept an offer (or make an
offer) is based on more substantive issues.  

I am not a recruiter.  As far as I can tell there is already a
shortage of skilled people.  As I mentioned in another posting, it's
not a race and resumes that arrive via the net 5 minutes after I post
an ad receive no more or less consideration than those arriving by
snail-mail a week later.
--
Mike Rose, mrose@stsci.edu, 410-338-4949
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: * Looking for business opportunity
Date: 22 Jul 1992 17:49:12 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.89.16.46

Hi everyone,
	I'm new to this group and I'm looking for some business oppurtunities to look
at. I'm a college student, so this would have to be part time and low/no
investment. I'm looking for preferrably something computer related (not
required) and not (necessarily) a get-rich-quick scheme, but something real.
Please e-mail all leads you might have. Thanx,
												_Mike_

--------
Michael Beck       email: MBECK@BBN.COM or MBECK@VTSSI.VT.EDU
Phone: (617)873-2605  or  873-2383
       Office  2/247      Lab 2/273

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dcd@cactus.org (Danny C. Deng)
Subject: Fair contract rate in Alaska?
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:58:16 GMT

Could somebody tell me the fair rate of one year contract in Alaska as
a UNIX/C software engineer?

Thanks.

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: chu@waikiki.tti.com (king chu)
Subject: Headhunters in Seattle
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:35:52 GMT

Hi,

  I am posting this for a friend who has no access to this net, please direct
all responses to my email address kingchu@ttidca.tti.com and I will forward it
to my friend.

  Can someone send my friend some contacts for headhunters/Recruiters in 
Seattle?

  Thanks.

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan)
Subject: Re: Need suit and tie for a job interview ??
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:57:45 GMT

From article <1470@outland.UUCP>, by richard@adpgate.UUCP ( ADP OPuS):
>    Here we are living in the land of the free, home of the brave 

where you are free not to wear a suit to an interview, and the company
is free not to hire you. Whatta country! It's good to be alive and
in America!

--
John Sloan              "Since I've given up hope,        +1 303 497 1243
NCAR/SCD                   I feel much better."       Fax +1 303 497 1137
Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA                            jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu
Logical Disclaimer:  belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
From: dfriedman@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (D R Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Is over qualification a valid reason for rejection.
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:32:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul28.021318.4388@umbc3.umbc.edu>, cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs461a09) writes...
> 
>	Is over qualification a valid basis for rejection
>	--------------------------------------------------
> 
>	
>I am a thirty year old registered professional Civil Engineer
>(green card holder).  I have M.S. (Civil/ Structures) degree, and
>also an equivalent degree of B. S. (Computer Science).  I actually
>have done 7 courses in computer science from University of
>Maryland.  My experience covers Civil Construction, Civil
>Structural Design, CIVIL ENGG. COMPUTER PROGRAMMING.
> 
>	I got laid off in October 1991 due to slump in residential
>real estate.  I have tried to enter pure computer programming as
>civil engg. job market is very tight in Maryland.  I am not able
>to get even a single job in computer programming.  From last 9
>months I am sitting at home.  I studied some more computer science
>courses in the mean time.  
> 
>	I tried to find out why I am getting rejected in so many
>companies.  My friend informed me that the reason I was rejected
>by his company was due to OVER qualification.
> 
>	I am having tough time in my physical survival.  I am ready
>to do work as low as $ 9.00 per hour or even lower, but it seems
>to me that it could become reason for rejection.  I have excellent
>references from my last employers.
> 
>	Why the employer is worried about over qualification?  If he
>is so much worried about the employee leaving job then he could
>ask for some contract or bond.  In these days I have to make sure
>about my physical survival today, so that I can dream about golden
>tomorrow.
> 
> 
>Thank you,
> 
>Avinash Apte.
> 
>e_mail   cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu

Over qualification is just a polite excuse that they do not want you.
Having a green card is one strike against you since there are a lot
of citizens out of work these days in your area.
I would just keep on trying, I have 20 years of MIS experience and I am
now out of work and I get that same bull shit excuse.  

Things are tough all over in America.
Denny
From: rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda Gaines)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Average Salaries for Systems Administrators Needed
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:18:35 GMT
Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, Virginia


I need an idea of the salary ranges out there (Eastern U.S.
preferred) for systems administrators.

 -thanks
  rhonda

-- 
Rhonda Gaines              INTERNET: gaines@fibercom.com
FiberCom, Inc.             UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!gaines   
P.O. Box 11966             PHONE: 703-342-6700 or 800-423-1183 x291
Roanoke, VA  24022-1966    FAX:   703-342-5961
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Let's see some low-level hardware/software openings!
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:09:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.001430.21947@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>   Yet I know perfectly well that microprocesor-based systems, and especially
>embedded controllers is curently a hot growth field, especially in industry.
>And these are especially the kinds of applications that I'm most interested in.
>
>   So... where are all the embedded controller and low-level hardware/software
>openings??!

In article <1992Jul19.054637.6600@ennews.eas.asu.edu> hougland@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Kriss A. Hougland) writes:
>Ditto.  I usally get more out of my local newspaper's classified than any
>other magazine.  (Anyone know of any good RT professonal magazines that
>a library will get?)

Just to emphasize how popular this field is: all the 8051's from some of the
sources I know of have been sold out till March.

Who's buying them all??!
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: oneil@odin.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil)
Subject: Re: Is dot-matrix OK?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:54:37 GMT

hastings@unislc.uucp (Clint Hastings) writes:

>In article <R7NPNB1w164w@yngbld.gwinnett.com> zeta@yngbld.gwinnett.com (Gregory Youngblood) writes:
>>I too am looking for a job, and use my Epson Action 4500 24 pin printer.  
>>I'll say it has NLQ (near laser quality), especially when using a fresh 
>>ribbon in it.  I have also had a chance to use the Canon BJ-10.  Truly an 
>>excelent printer.  When I compared results from these printers and an OKI800 
>>laser printer I was disappointed.  The laser was more crisp (at least I 
>>could tell, but I look for such things).  why?  I think it has to do with 
>>the bubble jet and dot matrix itself.  While the printer can address 360dpi, 
>>when the ink hits the paper, it is slightly larger than the same dot on a 
>>300dpi laser printer.  Theory, as explained to me by someone I feel 
>>reliable, but I could be wrong.  In the meantime I use my Action printer for 
>>my resumes.

>Try photocopying your dot-matrix printed page. The improvement will
>astound you, i.e., it really will look NLQ. But you can't beat the
>look of a real laser printed page.

I second this.  If you REALLY don't have access to a laser printer, then 
get a *brand new* ribbon for your Epson 24 pin, print out your resume using
the best type you have, and then take the resume to your local copy shop
and select a conservative looking resume quality paper.  I did this a few
months ago and the results were quite acceptable.  (I have an IBM compatible
with Windows.  I used the Times Roman truetype font included.)  When I showed
my resume to my boyfriend for proofreading, he thought that I had used a 
laser printer until I told him it was dot matrix photocopied on resume paper.
Photocopies almost always darken the ink.

By the way, you might consider calling around to the local copy shops to 
find out if they have laser printers available.  If you have a computer at
home, you could type up your resume there and then take the disk to the
shop and run a laser print.

Sharon O'Neil
oneil@odin.unomaha.edu

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: news@pwh.uucp (usenet news administrator)
Subject: Re: Security Clearance
Organization: PWH Associates
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 05:36:16 GMT
Summary: individuals  applying for clearance
Keywords: clearance, security, individuals

i have been reading this subject with interest. i have
been asked several times from prospective employers if I had
a security clearance.
Is it possible for an individual to apply for security clearance, or can only
a company apply for an employee?
thanks for any info.

Phil
From: jrblack@teal.csn.org (Roger Black)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Where do old programmers go?
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:06:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.


In article <1992Jul17.023654.29234@unlv.edu> Lee Whitney (whitney@unlv.edu)
writes:

> Where do programmers go when they turn 35?  When I was introduced to
> the teams for some major products on the market, the average age
> seemed to be less than 30.  Beyond that, there seemed to few 'older'
> people at most other positions in the companies too.  

That's because they get weeded out by smartass young managers who
equate "over 35" with "over the hill".  You can't sue for age
discrimination until you're over 40; and if they want to get rid of
you, you'll never last that long.

> I am somewhat
> concerned that after 10 years in this industry I will magically
> disappear.

Quite likely.  Plan on a major career change between 35 and 40, unless
you work for a company that values experience over pliability.  (Such
companies seem to be rarer than hen's teeth, but there are at least a 
few of them out there.)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: emeeks@unity.ncsu.edu (Edward Meeks)
Subject: Re: No tie
Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:09:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.220606.22761@news2.cis.umn.edu> helwig@epx.cis.umn.edu () writes:
>
>OK, so what about those of us who cannot wear a tie. Should I tell
>the interviewer outright, or just assume that if it matters, they will
>ask? I have a condition (similar to claustrophobia) which prevents
>me from wearing one. What do you think?


You could wear a clip-on.....
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mattel@auto-trol.com (Matt Telles)
Subject: Re: getting laid off
Organization: Auto-trol
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:31:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.133516.4302@lloyd.Camex.COM> johnd@lloyd.Camex.COM (John Duesenberry) writes:
>I have recently learned that the company I work for, which is in deep
>financial doody, has canceled the software development project to
>which I was assigned, and that there is going to be a "downsizing"
>(love that term!) soon. 
>	As in all such situations, bizarre rumors are circulating. Here is
>one that concerns me: that the company wishes to cut costs by eliminating
>as many employees as possible, but also wishes to avoid the costs
>normally associated with layoffs. (such as severance pay, and paying
>into the state's unemployment-compensation fund so that ex-workers
>can collect unemployment comp., etc.) Therefore, it is said, they plan
>to offer people "new" positions that are actually demotions at drastically
>lower pay, or are otherwise inappropriate or designed to be totally
>unacceptable to the employee - thus forcing the employee to quit
>"voluntarily." Thus, the co. would not have to pay severance and the
>employees could not file for unemployment, etc.
>	My question is - IS THIS LEGAL? What are my rights here? If this
>scenario is true, do I have grounds for legal action? What state agencies
>(I'm in Massachusetts) might I contact for help?
>	Any advice would be appreciated....

Okay, first things first:

Is it legal?
   Sure.  Unless you have something in your contract with the company (if you
signed one when you joined) or the demotions are done with some sort of bias
(age, sex, etc discrimination) the company can do pretty much whatever it wants.

What are your rights here?

   Few and far between.  They can't *fire* you without giving you some sort of
reason, nor can they just "let you go" without following their standard
practices (severance, extra vacation, etc).  Aside from that, well, it's their
nickel and they can do whatever they want with it.

Do you have grounds for legal action?

   What would you sue for?  The company is acting within their own rights.  You
have the right to leave anytime you want, why shouldn't they have to right to
use you as they see fit?  Would you complain equally if they wanted to raise all
salaries 20% across the board?  Of course not.   This is not a fun situation
(I've been in it) but it isn't all that rare either.

I'm sorry that your company is doing so poorly that they would choose such an
action.  On the other hand, I would go out and look for a job were I you...

Matt
-- 
==============================================================================
Matt Telles 	                 mattel@auto-trol.COM
                                 {...}ncar!ico!auto-trol!mattel
Auto-trol Technology 12500 N Washington Denver, CO 80241-2404 (303)252-2874
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc