HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robd@cray.com (Robert Derrick)
Subject: Re: Darwin's Enigma
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:19:00 CDT

Jim Loucks writes:

Jim, I am very sorry to see that you are starting to fall into the same
snake pit as the rest of the CS crowd.  I really thought that you might
actually go out there as a Christian Warrior for Truth.  It is not that
I expect you to ever believe Evo.  But I did expect that you would no
longer sink into the same old CS tactical maneuvers.

: How 
: does a scientist determine the difference in the evidence between 
: a fossil that was the result of punctuated equilibria, and a 
: fossil that was the result of special creation? The physical 
: evidence (fossil record) for both will be identical. This is all
: I'm asking.

Maybe the scientist doesn't.  It is completely immaterial to the 
question.  The scientist must make some choices.  On one hand is
the theory of Evo.  Within this theory are numerous sub theories,
hypotheses, conjectures, of which PE is one.  The scientists attempts
to validate those parts of the theory that she is most interested
in.  Gould picked PE, someone else will pick something else.  The
main point is, they had something to choose from.  The main 
difference is that PE is a part of a theory that has an enormous
body of evidence, and an enormous amount of explanatory material.

The difference, that you asked for, is that special creation is
devoid of even a theory, or any evidence whatsoever.  Well, maybe
the preceeding statement is not true, but if so, the real conspiracy
is in ICR and L.Tun and yourself, because none of you has ever
produced one single piece of useful evidence.  It is all tentative
scratch pad conjectures that appear to onlookers to be a blind
for a Fundementalist Christian agenda to force a literal interpretation
of the Bible.  Why don't you prove me wrong?  Why don't you even try?
You've never even tried.  Doesn't it seem just a little suspicious to
you that in the entire body of CS literature, there is no theory
or evidence?  Or is there another truth that you are keeping from us?

Jim, every time you post yet another tittle of anti-evolution tripe
you expose the bankruptcy of so-called Special Creation.  If you 
really have nothing to say about the theory of Special Creation,
why say anything at all?

rob derrick
From: Arno.Wouters@phil.ruu.nl (Arno Wouters)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Sauropods: Swimmers or Stompers?   Source Suggestions Solicited.
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:55:42 GMT
Followup-To: talk.origins
Organization: Dept. of Philosophy, Utrecht University, The Netherlands

In article <73243@netnews.upenn.edu>, rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe)
wrote:
> 
> In article <csqj!b_@lynx.unm.edu> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu 
>      (Roger Squires) writes:
> 
> >So, what's my point?  Well, the flip-flopping on theories does not
> >bother me (in fact it is a positive sign), but I am interested in
> >tracing a little more the complete turn-around from the late seventies
> >to today on this swimming sauropod silliness.  If the sage
> >saurological superluminaries out there
> > 
> Probably the best person I can think of for you to look into while
> trying to trace back this controversy would be R. McNeil Alexander.
> He wrote a book (whose title escapes me at the moment) in the last
> year or two, and he also wrote an article for SciAm (it was a cover
> story ca May 1991).

Actually, the article "How Dinosaurs Ran" is in the april issue at p. 62-68.

McNeill Alexander argues that none of the large sauropods needed to live in 
water or to rely on buoyancy for support. The key to this conclusion are
the notion of dynamic similarity and bone strength. For two animals that
run in a dynamically similar fashion (for example they both are trotting
or galloping) the stresses in the leg bone will be less in whichever animal
has a lower value of Wx/Z (W = weight of the animal, x the length of the bone,
Z the socalled "section modus", a property of the cross section of the
bone). The strength indicator is the reciprocal of the foregoing value,
namely Z/Wx.
It could be established empirically (for mammals larger that a cat) that two
animals move dynamically similar if the ratio of their stride length and
their foot length is equal. This ratio can be calcuted from footprint 
data. The tracks of dinosaurs show that dinosaurs, unlike modern reptiles, 
walked with their feet directly under their bodies like mammals and birds.
It is, therefore, reasonable to suppose that the ratio of stride length
and footlength is an indication for dynamic similarity for dinosaurs too,
and that sauropods can be compared legitimately to large mammal herbivors
(because they have the same relative stride length).
McNeill Alexander is able to calculate the strength indicator of several
dinosaurs (Z and x can be calcutated from drawings of fossil bones, W from
plastic models of dinosaurs). The value for the sauropode Apatosaurus
(better known under its old name "Brontosaurus") is 14 which is about the
same as that of modern elephants. This means that Apotosaurus had no more
problems in carrying his weight than modern elephants have.
From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: A man shall be judged by the company he keeps
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:07:18 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England

Tags:

SB: sbishop@desire.wright.edu (Sue Bishop),
    article <1992Apr6.063326.791@desire.wright.edu>

TH: news@fedfil.UUCP (Ted Holden), article <2714@fedfil.UUCP>

TH: [...]
TH: If you really want to adopt the view that theory overrides history, then
TH: you don't need to go back to 1500 BC for a starting point;  you can
TH: start 50 years ago or thereabouts.
TH: 
TH: Consider the company which Bishop and Hyde keep in this theory overrides
TH: history game.

SB: [...]

TH: Consider the case of Ralph Winston, who typically posts on the
TH: talk.politics group, and mostly posts articles to the effect that the
TH: halocaust of WWII is a bogus notion and never really took place:

>>> [...Ralph WinSSton's stuff gleefully deleted...]

TH: I've always assumed that the halocaust was real enough simply based on the
TH: films taken by American soldiers entering the camps at the close of
TH: WWII, and by the further consideration that Hitler's declaration of war
TH: against the US could only have been a kind of a declaration of intent to
TH: commit suicide, which would logically seem to include a plan to dispose
TH: of any internal group which Hitler might regard as a fifth column.
TH: 
TH: Silly me.

SB: Let me get this straight?  Is Ted now claiming the 'halocaust'
SB: didn't happen?


No Sue, I think he's claiming that *your* approach to That Which Is True
(read Ted's opinions) is the same as that of the "historical revisionists"
(who are in fact a bunch of rather unpleasant anti-semites who attempt
to deny that the Holocaust happened).

This has a rather tediously familiar ring to it. In recent discussions over
on soc.history, atheists (me, for example) have been accused (guess who by)
of sharing the "revisionist" approach also. It seems that we (atheists)
refuse to see That Which Is True despite the fact that it is, apparently,
blindingly obvious. Our general insistence on "evidence-up-front-please"
and refusal to accept, for example, second-law pseudo-arguments is compared
to the anti-semites' refusal to acknowledge that the Holocaust occurred.

Needless to say, I found the comparison pretty insulting, and it seems that
Ted has chosen to go the same way; if somebody disagrees with you, you draw
some analogy (see thread title) between their arguments and those of
neo-nazis.

As we say in the good ol' UK, "Bollocks, Ted".


Cheers

Simon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Every morning when you wake up and look in the mirror, check yourself
for signs of collective identity" - Consolidated on "This Is Fascism"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: bcushman@envy.Reed.Edu (Ben Cushman)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: The Myth Of Morality-- and Christian Judgment
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:08:39 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr14.124129.952@desire.wright.edu>  
sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> With this woman I am not going on past transgressions but continuing and
> ongoing ones.  Her out of wedlock children are ages 10 and 5, she had an
> abortion between them, she is currently on welfare, has been on it for  
as
> long as I have known her (ten years), all the while turning down free 
> job training.  As for her current position, she is living with a guy who
> is an habitual drug user, who just got out of prison for being a drug 
> pusher.  She has recently stated she wants another child, especially  
since
> her youngest is now in school.  (In this state, your welfare is cut when
> your youngest child is in school... the rationale is that now you can  
get
> your tail out and get a job since you are not as needed at home.)
> Oh, yes, wonderful Christian!
> 

	I'm sorry, but this kind of discussion of someone's character  
turns my stomach.  What ever happened to "do not judge, lest ye be  
judged"; "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and "take the  
log from your eye".
	I'm not perfect, the woman you describe is not perfect-- and I  
would be simply amazed, Mr.(?) Bishop, if you turned out to be perfect.   
Wouldn't that be something.  The Second Coming already!

						Ben Cushman
						Reed College
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul J. Schinder)
Subject: To Burch Seymour, don't read if you're not him.
Reply-To: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:24:53 GMT

Sorry about the waste of bandwith.

Burch, I have a reply to your e-mail, but this site doesn't know about
encore.com.  For that matter, sri.com doesn't know about encore.com.
Can you give me a path that will work?
--
--------
Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.origins,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.misc
From: howse@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Walter Howse)
Subject: Help wanted Yaesu FT290
Summary: help wanted to find yaesu FT290 7 pin microphone plug
Keywords: help plug yaesu
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 02:05:35 GMT

Can anyone help me find a source for a 7 pin microphone plug for a Yaesu FT290R transceiver?  I cannot find a source in Perth.  Thanks

73
Wal

======================================================== 
Dr Walter J Howse      Director        WADEC          
(Western Australian Distance Education Consortium) 
Postal: Murdoch University      :  phone   +61 9 360 2630
      : Murdoch WA              :  fax     +61 9 310 5543
      : Australia 6156          :       Keylink  wj.howse
Amateur radio VK6KZ: el-mail howse@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au
-- 
================================================================ 
Dr Walter J Howse, Director, WADEC (Western Australian Distance
Education Consortium), care of Murdoch University, Murdoch WA, Australia
6156.  phone +61 9 360 2630  fax +61 9 310 5543
From: e3grwill@snap.aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Grant Willis VK5ZWI)
Newsgroups: aus.radio
Subject: STOLEN EQUIPMENT - from VK5AZM
Keywords: If you see any of this stolen gear let me know
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:20:13 GMT
Organization: Engineering Dept, Adelaide University

Hello All.

Several days ago Mitch VK5AZM here in Adelaide had his car stolen
which contained several items of Amateur Radio Equipment (and other items).
The car was recovered but the following wasnt:

Icom IC2A 2m Handheld  Serial Number #18625
Icom IC2A 2m Handheld  Serial Number #18634
Icom IC4E 70cm Handheld  Serial Number #04482

All of the above have the words "Stolen from VK5AZM" Engraved on the case.
Numerous Modifications had been made to the internals of the radios.

Also stolen were:

1 Mobile Phone - Intertan  Ph. No. 018 839 738
1 NVB11 Video Battery Charger with 12 v leads added
1 Doppler Direction Finding Unit - Home Brew with 16 LEDs. Black Box.

If any of this equipment is seen by anyone (it may be headed interstate)
please email me as soon as possible or send a message to Mitch,
VK5AZM via Amateur Packet Radio to VK5AZM@VK5WI.#SA.AUS.OC

Thanks for reading this. Any assistance greatly appreciated in recovering
the tranceivers and other equipment.

Cheers de Grant VK5ZWI
--
Grant Willis (VK5ZWI) 3rd/4th Yr Elec. Eng. Stud.     | The opinions expressed
Adelaide University, South AUSTRALIA                  | here are mine. The
AARNet/Internet: e3grwill@snap.aelmg.adelaide.edu.au  | Uni probably doesnt
Packet Radio: VK5ZWI@VK5TTY.#SA.AUS.OC                | know I exist!
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: dgodden@nepean.uws.edu.au (Daniel Godden)
Subject: Test
Organization: University of Western Sydney
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:39:18 GMT

Just as the title says!!!.
From: David.Galea@p3.f530.n635.z3.fx.cec.edu.au (David Galea)
Newsgroups: aus.radio
Subject: Mods for Standard radio
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:28:00 +1000

Goes anyone have any Modifications for my Standard C50D Tribander to use the full 70cm spectrum? (420MHz - 450MHz). It currently can only Tx/Rx from 430MHz - 439.995MHz.

73's
David Galea
VK3TVA


 * Origin:  ----> Long Live Asimov <----  (3:635/530.3)
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: phil_herring@itsus-gw.uow.edu.au (Rev Dr Phil Herring)
Subject: Re: Radio information for a beginner
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:05:18 GMT

The pedant strikes again!

In article <1992Apr13.114116.16512@ips.oz.au> dave@ips.oz.au (Dave 
Horsfall) writes:
> In article <siva.701952566@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
>     siva@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Siva) writes:
> >4) What type of license is required to use this frequency?
> 
> Ah - the big question!  Strictly speaking, CB cannot be used to talk outside
> Australia.  Strange, but true.

Allow me to correct Dave on this point. I'm sure he meant to say:

"Strictly speaking, it is illegal to use CB to talk outside Australia.
Strange, but true."


-- Phil.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Rev Dr Phil Herring,University of Wollongong, Australia 
  ph@cs.uow.edu.au        This article is copyright (c) 1992 Phil Herring
"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I
care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
My manner of thinking stems straight from my considered  reflections; it
holds with my existence, with the way I am made. It is not in my power to
alter it; and were it, I'd not do so." Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: taso@munnari.OZ.AU (Taso Hatzi)
Newsgroups: aus.auug
Subject: Representative Democracy & April Fools
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:19:17 GMT
Organization: 

There is an alternative to rule by represenation - rule by referendum.
If the membership is dissatisfied with the way AUUG works, I think it's
entirely rational to consider changes. Running AUUG by referendum using
the existing communication networks is, prima facie, quite plausible.
Why not toss some political theorists and engineers together and see
what they come up with?

Newsgroups: aus.auug
From: ggr@corowa.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: Are we all April Fools?
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:52:19 GMT

>In article <1992Apr12.133451.12877@metapro.DIALix.oz.au>, bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:
>|> ... I wasn't at the AGM, but I'm
>|> sure that (unless the returning officer has been derelict in
>|> his duties) no vote was taken and therefore you do NOT have
>|> a _mandate_.

In article <1992Apr13.014747.3281@newshost.anu.edu.au> jdb@arp.anu.edu.au (John D. Barlow) writes:
>Perhaps the use of "postal votes" could be made - as an organisation
>becomes bigger (or, face it, any organisation that is spread out over
>Australia) it needs to allow people to participate without physically
>being there.  This of course assumes the matters to be voted on are
>known in advance, and/or of enough importance.

Pat was elected by a postal vote. If financial, Bernd should have been
able to vote. This constitutes a mandate to me...

AUUG does, of course, use postal votes for the election of the
committee, and then the committee makes the decisions that are
translated into the running of the group. This takes a ridiculously
large amount of time (not to mention expense which I'd rather see
being spent on member benefits) and is, in my opinion, not an option for any
decision short of constitutional changes.

>Stand and be counted - put yourself up for a position on the committee,
>and vote for the people you want to be in power.

Indeed. (Don't construe this as a criticism of Bernd, who already
contributes more than most...)

--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 3 282 2517
Newsgroups: aus.auug
From: Sm@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (Scott Merrilees)
Subject: Re: Representative Democracy & April Fools
Organization: BHP, Newcastle, Australia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:12:55 GMT

taso@munnari.OZ.AU (Taso Hatzi) writes:
>There is an alternative to rule by represenation - rule by referendum.
>If the membership is dissatisfied with the way AUUG works, I think it's
>entirely rational to consider changes. Running AUUG by referendum using
>the existing communication networks is, prima facie, quite plausible.
>Why not toss some political theorists and engineers together and see
>what they come up with?

This raises an interesting issues of authentication and another of
potentially dis-enfranchising those without network connections.  This
would also excaberate the problem of discussion, with potentially hundreds
or thousands (shudder) of people wanting to express an opinion on a
subject.  Nice idea in theory, could be the prototype of a whole new
system of government.  I would be very interested to see what the
political theorists and engineers come up with.

Sm
-- 
Scott Merrilees, BHP Information Technology, Newcastle, Australia
Internet: Sm@bhpese.oz.au   Phone: +61 49 40 2132   Fax: ... 2165
From: ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au (Ian Hoyle)
Newsgroups: aus.auug
Subject: Thoughts for the AUUG '92 dinner???
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:09:36 GMT
Organization: BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories, AUSTRALIA

OK, after the ongoing (and yes, I think quite productive) debate on
the AUUG conference charges, the '92 conference committee would like some
input on what attendees would like for their conference dinner.

- venue

  Is the large room at the World Trade Centre ok ?? (we used it in 1990)
  What about other venues, remembering that we have to cater for a 
  sizeable number of people and also make it easily accessible for attendees
  staying in city hotels.

  Is the overhead space capable of withstanding several hundred helium
  balloons being released simultaneously??

  What weight _is_ the table centrepiece.

  ...... important issues !!

- after dinner speaker

  This is wide open. Personally I liked Paul Jennings (correct me if I'm
  wrong) who we had in 1990. After 2 days of talks a bit of humour goes
  down well :-)

  Suggestions are eagerly awaited upon.

	ian
--
               :   Ian Hoyle,  Senior Research Scientist
               :   Image Analysis Group
     /\/\      :   BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
    / / /\     :   245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170, AUSTRALIA
   / / /  \    :   Phone    +61-3-560-7066
  / / / /\ \   :   E-mail   ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au
  \ \/ / / /   :   
   \  / / /    :  "Now I've got the bead on you with MY disintegrating gun.
    \/\/\/     :   And when it disintegrates, it disintegrates. (pulls trigger)
               :   Well, what you do know, it disintegrated."
               :        -- Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a half century
Newsgroups: aus.auug
From: jdb@arp.anu.edu.au (John D. Barlow)
Subject: Re: Are we all April Fools?
Keywords: auug, name, president's report
Organization: Parallel Computing Research Facility, ANU.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 01:47:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.133451.12877@metapro.DIALix.oz.au>, bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:
|> ... I wasn't at the AGM, but I'm
|> sure that (unless the returning officer has been derelict in
|> his duties) no vote was taken and therefore you do NOT have
|> a _mandate_.

Perhaps the use of "postal votes" could be made - as an organisation
becomes bigger (or, face it, any organisation that is spread out over
Australia) it needs to allow people to participate without physically
being there.  This of course assumes the matters to be voted on are
known in advance, and/or of enough importance.

Stand and be counted - put yourself up for a position on the committee,
and vote for the people you want to be in power.

Also - candidates standing for a position - write up a paragraph on your
"policies" for office.

PS: perhaps each AUUG committee member could write up a section on what
they do - what their duties are and how time consuming the position is.
Perhaps this will make people appreciate the effort people put into
these jobs.

-- 
jdb = John Barlow, Parallel Computing Research Facility,
Australian National University, I-Block, PO Box 4, Canberra, 2601, Australia.
email = jdb@arp.anu.edu.au
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]
Newsgroups: aus.auug
From: taso@munnari.OZ.AU (Taso Hatzi)
Newsgroups: aus.auug
Subject: Re: Representative Democracy & April Fools
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:38:31 GMT
Organization: 

Sm@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (Scott Merrilees) writes:
: 
: This raises an interesting issues of authentication and another of
Authentication would be one of the more interesting technical problems.

: potentially dis-enfranchising those without network connections.  This
Proxys? I would be happy enough to assign my voting right to someone with
a sympathetic view if I couldn't participate, or (more likely) didn't want
to participate.

: would also excaberate the problem of discussion, with potentially hundreds
: or thousands (shudder) of people wanting to express an opinion on a
: subject.  
Yes, you only need to look at some of the more popular news groups to see
how the purpose of a debate can dissipate. I think AUUG has fewer than 1000
members - I can't see more than a handful getting involved with any one
issue at a time but there will doubtless be occasions when everyone will
want to be heard so whatever system is proposed should be able to cope
with large forums.
From: simon@lia.di.epfl.ch (Simon Leinen)
Newsgroups: aus.net.directory.osi-ds
Subject: Draft minutes of the San Diego Meeting
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:50:54 GMT

> A question was asked regarding the transition to X.500 in Europe:
> have there been real directories mapped into x500?  The consensus is
> no, that most directory efforts have focused on creating new X.500
> databases.

c=CH@o=EPFL contains the complete data from the internal phone/Email
directory of the Lausanne Polytechnic, but the access to all objects
representing real persons has been restricted to people within the
EPFL itself.  This was necessary because of an earlier policy decision
at this school (no-one should be published through X.500 directory
without being asked for consent).  I guess this is a common obstacle
to more general X.500 deployment.  Another one is probably that
communication paths between QUIPU hackers and administration people
have to be established.
 
> JPEG - Support for this should be in the next version of QUIPU.

Fine! I just finished collecting the JPEG gallery of our lab.
-- 
Simon Leinen.
Ecole Polytechnique de Lausanne
From: levanon@browneyes.ucs.indiana.edu (Jacob Levanon - Network Applications/812 855-2598)
Newsgroups: aus.net.directory.osi-ds
Subject: Re: Document representation and optimized retrieval
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:25:55 GMT

Please send me a copy - thanks.