HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kreme@isis.cs.du.edu (Kreme thats all just K-r-e-m-e)
Subject: Re: Wildcards
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 10:23:12 GMT

jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox) writes:

>In article <1992Apr6.105835.2268@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kreme@isis.cs.du.edu (Corwit of Amber) writes:
>>[how the Wild Cards books have gone downhill...]
>>
>>As far as I'm concerned, the single best story is Zelazny's in book I, too
>>bad the character was ruined in later treatments.

>  Which character?  Sorry, I can never remember who wrote what with
>Wild Cards...

Zelazny wrote "Croyd" a great character who became just another of the
"heros" in later books.  The first Croyd (The Sleeper?) story was just
wonderful though.

--
   | kreme@isis.cs.du.edu | The Coven BBS [303/777-2911] 1st METAL in MST |
   | kreme@#22 (FV3 Net)  | MST3K, Spacer Quest 3.4w, Anime files, & More |
   | [303/722-2009] Voice |    "Unity Sleeps" -- Neil Gaiman, Sandman     |
   |      USR HST/V.32bis, 100 Megs, All code in RAM, Super Fast          |
From: wen5@ellis.uchicago.edu (Stan "T2" Wen)
Subject: Re: Sandman #37
Keywords: A Game of You
Reply-To: wen5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:46:51 GMT

In article <66@quark.ansto.gov.au> davidc@quark.ansto.gov.au (David Carroll) writes:
>
>     I only read Sandman #37 (the conclusion of A Game of You) so I
>killed all the messages already posted on the subject. But I glanced at
>two and they seemed to say the story as a whole was boring. I disagree
>strongly, and found thesix issues to be consistently brilliant.

I thought the story was interesting, probably the best story I've read in
a while, but it wasn't up to par with Gaiman's other stuff.  It seems almost
like Neil was confronted by a bunch of geeks who were saying, "Oh Neil, 
*snivel* You're going to end the story like this, right?  Like this and
this, right?"  and Gaiman decided it was time for a new ending.  Hm.  Oh
well.

>     Doll's House is still my favourite of the four longer stories (I
>thought the Preludes and Nocturns story had some teething problems and the

I can't remember which story it was, but my favorite was the one about the
guy who chose to live forever and hosted a once in a millenium meeting with
Morpheus.  No, don't need to remind me what the title was, but I really 
enjoyed that story the most.

>end of Season of Mists was very disappointing) but I think A Game of You
>is perhaps the technically best of the four.

Um, specific criticisms:
Thessaly's characterization was handled inconsistently.  Is she petty and
inexperienced or is she powerful and confrontational?
The chronology of the final two books was rushed.  It seemed like the story
could have been stretched to a 7th and 8th chapter without much problem.  Too
many things happened in the 5th and 6th books.
The Cuckoo was not explained as well as I would have liked.  Oh well, that
happens in the best of books.
There was too much reliance on shocking scenes, like the George dissection
and the death of Wilkinson.  I know, it's hard to find books that deal with
things like death and sex in a frank but non-gratuitous manner, but I think
the subjects here were included somewhat gratuitously.  Oh well again.
 
>     Not that I'm worrying that much, as long as I love it...  :-)

Like I said it was probably the best comic in my stash, but it wasn't up to
my very high expectations of Sandman.

Stan T2 Wen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: wesselak@sunb9.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak)
Subject: Re: Piranha comics editorial plans for '92
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:29:28 GMT

YEAH!  GREGORY!!!!!

I knew my wish would come true!

BTW, I hope Beautiful Stories plans to continue.  Any info?


"Zub Zub!" --Gregory


-- 
|"Is money the root of all evil?"     |   __| /  |__    "He'd kill us all     |
|"Yes."                               |   __|<  /|__       you know"          |
| --Horace Gorey and God,             |     | \/ |      "Just for starters"   |
| Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children | Erik:  wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu     |
From: js06+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Lee Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: SANDMAN QUESTIONS - HELP, PLEASE.
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:02:33 GMT
	<9204080554.AA02284@world.std.com>
Organization: Junior, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>(Moore didn't need plastic surgery; he just shaved his beard.  Nobody ever
>knew what was under there anyhow.  He puts a false one on for his rare
>public appearances as Moore.)

Come on now, lets be realistic.

Moore has a wife and kids, I'd put his age around forty. Gaiman LOOKS to
be in his twenties. That confirms that the only way Moore could go
around disguised as him is if he had undergone plastic surgery.

We here at the Center For Conspiracy Detection And Trouble Shooting
(CFCDATS) hypothesize that this is what happened: Moore, recently
turning forty, underwent a mid-life crisis, his work, his family, it all
felt very constricting. Add to this that he was the top writer in the
universe, his work being in demand all over the place. Add to this the
topic of the stories he wrote (horror, mostly) and the strain it had on
him. One day he just snapped. He left his family, sold his Eagle awards
and used the money to run away to Sweden to have extensive plastic
surgey -- to actaully turn himself into a younger man. However, comics
were in his blood, as it were, and he couldn't escape. He began writing
under his pen-name (clearly a desperate cry for help).

This emotional conflict is clear in his work on "Swamp Thing" and
"Miracle Man." Both of these storylines dealt with a man gaining a new
body and then going on to do exciting things. I view these comics as
complex allegories for Moore's personal trauma, especially the story
where Swamp Thing fights that big drooling monkey. As Gaiman he wrote
many stories which were nothing but prolonged conversations between two
characters, I view this as his trying to justify his change of
lifestyles to himself.

Gaiman finally tries to purge his Moore persona by writing a truly
horrible Swamp Thing story (Swamp Thing Anual #4?, the one with Brother
Power The Geek), as if by destroying the readability of his most famous
character, he can destroy his former life.

Gaiman/Moore is clearly a man in need of help, and we here at the CFDATS
think he should be apprehended as quickly as possible before he can do
harm to himself or others.

But that's nothing, let me tell you what going on at the Phone Company....


								J
From: fuzzy@athena.mit.edu (Pinkdex - TNG)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Over used lines
Keywords: Claremont, cliche
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:08:03 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

My favorite Claremontism (and one I used myself just recently, after
a particularly exhausting aerobics class):

	"I... hurt."

	(Sometimes, for emphasis: "I... *hurt.*")

Ah, for the days of decent writing. :-)




--
**(Connie Hirsch  still: fuzzy@athena.mit.edu no longer: chirsch@lotus.com)**
        Oh life is a glorious cycle of song/ A medley of extemporanea       
   And love is a thing that can never go wrong/ And I am Marie of Roumania.    
						-Dorothy Parker
From: uk02700@nx33.mik.uky.edu (mitchell e french)
Subject: Re: Masque...dead? (was Re: X-Force and the New Mutants)
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:15:42 GMT
X-Bytes: 

In article <92097.114615JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu> JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> 
>    Masque's gender is irrevelant.
>    Masque can change its apparent gender at any time (think about its
>   "mutant power" (tm) ).
>                         -Jonathan

	Nope, sorry.
	Masque can shape the flesh of anyone else, but not  
himself/herself/itself.  (Oh, the hell with it.  I declare that Masque is  
*male*, at least for this posting...)  Part of his curse is the way he  
looks.  He can make anyone look like anything he wants....but he will  
always be ugly and deformed.
	He said so in one of his earlier appearances, back before he  
became BigBadLeaderOfTheEvilMorlocks....

Mushroom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: ads3@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew D. Shults)
Subject: Re: Liefield on Miller
Reply-To: ads3@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew D. Shults)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 20:43:18 GMT


     This thread doesn't belong on news.groups, please confine
rec.arts.comics stuff to rec.arts.comics, thank you.

   ---Andrew

-- 
Andrew Shults     \    "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
ads3@po.cwru.edu    \       --- Me on a particularly stressful day.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: acadams@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Arthur C. Adams)
Subject: MARVEL: How I'd Reform It
Reply-To: acadams@aplcen (Arthur C. Adams)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 01:02:29 GMT

Since a lot of people have been posting on this subject, I thought
I'd throw in my 0.02 worth.

----------------------How I'd Reform Marvel------------------------

First, I'd do a "Crisis", a la DC, and get rid of a lot of the deadwood.
Get rid of most of the crap that Shooter and DeFalco (especially 
the latter) were responsible for. A few things I'd do will be
a) Undo, by whatever means necessary the resurrection of Jean Grey.
b) Kill Ghost Rider and Cable in particularly vicious methods.
c) Recreate the New Mutants.

Then, I'll start getting talent back. Beg Walt Simonson to work for
Marvel, offering him whatever title he wants. If he wants the FF back,
then he can ignore all of the crap DeFalco was responsible for. 

Third, I'd drastically reduce the power of editors. No more tyrants
like Bob Harras (sp?). The writers will control the books, and all
the editor will have is a very limited veto over plots, like what 
should have been used on practically every issue of X-Force.

Fourth, I'd increase the stature of writers, making them at 
least the equivalent of artists in salary and "pull." I'd also
cut down on the people that do both, making them prove themselves
with fill-in issues, mini-series and minor new titles, before they
get a major assignment.

Fifth, I'd limit character exposure. No more than two comics for each
team or character, and limit crossovers to two per year per group or
character.

Then, on the second day :-)

After the previous had worked out, I'd start broadening the line again.
I'd start to create mature titles, a la DC. I'd also encourage experimental
work from the creators, new slants on old characters. 

So, all I have to do is find "proof" that I'm legally Sam Walton's sole
heir, then use my inheritance to launch a hostile takeover of Marvel.
-- 
The world is not analog. The world is digital, just
with an incredible number of bits.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Arthur C. Adams - E-Mail acadams@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu
From: douga@yang.earlham.edu (Doug Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: MARVEL: X-force and The New Mutants
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:56:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: yang.1992Apr8.095611.16811
Organization: The Lion of Serrea

In article <1992Apr2.232648.18443@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (KOGUTT  TODD BRADLEY) writes:
>>However, as you should realize if you've read this group for awhile,
>>most of us divide the New Mutants into the Claremont era and the
>>Post-Claremont era.  Anything after Claremont basically sucked.
>>
> I vagley(?) remember an issue after Chris left where Magma met Hercules.  As I
> Recall it was pretty good.  Hmm, go figure.
> 
> ------SCAVENGER
> 
	That's because it was an inventory story that Chris wrote.  (#81, 
for those who care.)
				--Doug
"Howard the Duck, you stand charged with terminal negativism.  How do you  
plead?"
"Not guilty--by reason of sanity."
				--Steve Gerber
From: comp138w142@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Rogue's and Cyclops' control of powers
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:34:19 GMT
Organization: Camosun College

> Same question goes for Cyclops, is there something wrong with him or
> is his power just uncontrollable?

If I recall correctly. Cyclops *should* be able to control his power but, 
due to trauma suffered at the hands of Mr. Sinister as a child, he doesn't 
have the ability to 'switch off' his power.

I seem to remember a story where Loki was trying to get more power from 
"They who sit above in shadow". To do this he gave the world some sort 
of energy beam that, if you entered it, your dreams would come true (in 
exchange for your best talent or skill). When Cyclops came out of the beam 
he had control of his blasts.

Don't know about Rogue though.

Fair Winds...

Scott.
From: lsmith@cs.umn.edu (Lance "Cogsworth" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Sandman Movie?!?
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:48:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr13.234834.5352
Distribution: na
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor

If a Sandman movie were to be made (and I firmly belive that will never 
happen) I don't think any of the major story arcs could be successfully
told in the span of a normal movie (90-120 minutes). There is too much 
background to all of the major arcs to be successfully done. Can you
imagine how much time it would take just to explain the Endless?

My vision of a Sandman movie is the old horror anthology approach like
those old Amicus movies. Morpheus would serve as the connector to three
or four shorter stories. The movie would start with Morpheus in his 
realm and then he'd reveal or present a new dream and the movie would
follow that story to its end and so on. 

The nice thing about this approach is that you could do some of the
single issue stories and you could farm out each story to a different
writer/director team. Plus you wouldn't have to go through a lot of 
background for the general public. 

It really wouldn't be the Sandman that we enjoy (that would require a
television mini-series at the very least) but it would present elements
of the series that fans could enjoy while still presenting a movie that
people who have never heard of the book would might go see.
-- 
 Lance "Gen Admin" Smith |"This royal stadium of kings, this cover'd field,
   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)   | This turf of dynasty, this dugout of Kirby,
   The Cat That Walked   | This other Nicholet, major league paradise,
        By Himself       | This dome built by Minnesota for herself"   Kelly II
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER)
Subject: Re: X-Man Traitor
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 06:43:46 GMT


In article <1992Apr10.044313.18941@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> dhsu@Xenon.Stanfor
d.EDU (David Hsu) writes:
>How about Forge?  Since he can build almost anything, I'm sure he could
>build weapons to nail any/all of the X-Men... He has built a weapon to
>
>Also, Jean did say that Prof. X was the first to die.  Forge isn't on
>either of the teams and does seem to hang around with Xavier a lot.  I seem
>to recall him having this contraption which inhibited Xavier's powers while
>they were playing chess.  and I guess finally, he seems to be miffed about
>him and Storm, at least in the last issue.
>
Y'know as much as I'd hate to admit it (I like Forge), this makes since.

concider:

        Why have Forge use the mind scan inhibitor thingee in the chess game--
                Xavier wouldn't cheat, Forge would know this.
        The power's inhibited thing while the X-Men are killed

        The book's current writers aren't much for subtlety(?) (gosh who was
                really surprised that Bishop became an X-Man?)

It stands to reason that either the writers or (more likely) Harris
decided that Forge will betray the X-men (prob. cause Storm dumps him...just wat
ch).   Another character bites the dust.

BTW:  Dark Leech was a joke

------SCAVENGER

-- 
If some unemployed punk in New Jersey, can     |kogutt@ucsu.colorado.edu <-I.NET
get a cassette to make love to Elle McPherson  |
for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going|No matter where you go,
to make crack look like Sanka. -  Dennis Miller| there you are."-Buckaroo Banzai
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Rogue's and Cyclops' control of powers
From: tneeck@math.macalstr.edu (The sound of hoofprints 'cross the glade...)
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:10:48 -0600
Reply-To: tneeck@math.macalstr.edu (The face behind the mask)
Distribution: world

SOme fella named Scott writes
> > Same question goes for Cyclops, is there something wrong with him or
> > is his power just uncontrollable?
> 
> If I recall correctly. Cyclops *should* be able to control his power but, 
> due to trauma suffered at the hands of Mr. Sinister as a child, he doesn't 
> have the ability to 'switch off' his power.
> 
> I seem to remember a story where Loki was trying to get more power from 
> "They who sit above in shadow". To do this he gave the world some sort 
> of energy beam that, if you entered it, your dreams would come true (in 
> exchange for your best talent or skill). When Cyclops came out of the beam 
> he had control of his blasts.
> 
> Don't know about Rogue though.

	I seem to recall that she, too had control after passing through said  
light-fountain...

	No clue as to why Rogue can't turn off her power, except that the best  
theory I've heard as to HOW it works (RNA transfer an other esoteric genetic  
stuff) seems to imply it's as natural as antibody production.  Which means that  
we'd be talking some SERIOUS self-control training... 

--
+------------------------------------------v------------------------+
|Doctor Stomper  (aka T. M. Neeck)         |                        |
|NeXT:  tneeck@math.macalstr.edu           |      Isaac Asimov      |
|VAX:  tneeck@mac.cc.macalstr.edu          |       1920--1992       |
|DISCLAIMER:  I'm Too Sexy For Opinions... |                        |
>------------------------------------------^------------------------<
|WARNING:  This message will decay into its component quarks 12.2   |
| 	 seconds after you finish reading it.  So hurry up.         |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
|Macalester College doesn't neccesarily hold these opinions.  Which |
|	 is OK, since I sure as hell don't hold theirs.  And in some|
|	 cases, I don't even hold these.  So nyah.                  |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: X-Force and The New Mutants
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 18:49:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

DPMT@UQEVE.CC.UQ.OZ.AU (Matthew S Trevor):
> - Exactly when did Doug enrol at Xavier's?

The implication was that he got shanghaied to the slumber party, found
out that he was a mutant (after all these years of thinking that being
able to speak Navajo fluently the first time he heard it was just a
knack), and immediately informed his parents that, for reasons he was
unable to explain, he had to transfer schools in midyear.

> - Where did Illyana first appear? I noticed in #2(?) that she was with Moira
> at one point...

You should be looking at X-Men.  She was introduced earlier, but her
Big Introduction was in X-Men #160.

>I always thought that Illyana was limited in her use of her magick by her
>fear of fully becoming the Darkchild. Everytime she cast a spell she
>succumbed a little more to the "dark side".

A pet peeve of mine is Marvel's persistent reification of Evil.  I accept
that power/s can corrupt, but that's not the same as "We'll bombard you
with Evil Rays until you grow horns and fangs and start mutilating 
library books."  

>Illyana's mutant power was teleportation. Her armour and sword are both...

This is open to a number of reasonable interpretations.  While the sword
is certainly a magic artifact she herself created, the armour may be a
reflection of the family mutation.  (Her brother gets a complete suit of
it.)  And her teleportation is, more precisely, mental control over Limbo's
space-time-teleportation disks, which includes being able to summon them
into our world, but does not include being able to make a jump that
doesn't go via Limbo.  Would her power have taken this form had she
never lived in Limbo?

>PS I really hope that Doug & Warlock are brought back, I like the `Douglock'
>concept.

Not as portrayed, please.  If nothing else, we've seen that Warlock has
the ability to transform himself to fully human appearance:  Why should
Warlock+Doug not choose to look like Doug rather than like Warlock?

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Marvel killer characters
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 06:17:25 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Apr9.220107.26748@urbana.mcd.mot.com> mbraun@neptune.urbana.mcd.mot.com (Matthew Braun) writes:


>In article <1992Apr8.125008.1678@vax1.mankato.msus.edu>,
>vanor@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:

+> Oh, I don't know.  You make it sound like the majority of Marvel's
+>heroes are killers, and this is hardly the case.  Granted, the Punisher
+>Ghost Rider, and Wolverine, (arguably) Marvel's most popular characters
+>*are* killers (hey, there are a lot of bloodthirsty kids out there :-)),
+>but one could hardly say that any significant number of Marvel's heroes
+>advocate killing--in fact, most go to great pains to avoid it.


	I think Dave Sim caught part of the appeal in his wolverroach 
parody:

	"Like the cockroach, he's a crazed lone wolf.  Everyone admires 
	the one who makes his own rules, no matter how stupid those rules
	may actually be.....actually, the stupider they are, the greater
	the admiration."



Wolverine originally was a very interesting supporting character.  Now the
character is so debased and silly that its almost painful to read the
stories.   I think it reached an all-time low with the release  of 
"what if wolverine were lord of vampires during inferno."  Wolverine
is immortal and nearly indestrable these days.

	I know that someday soon there will be a wolverine/galactus story
in which wolverine will be revealed to be the human incarnation of the
universal wolver-force.



Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: Montague_Kevin @Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Subject: Re: watchmen FTP wanted
Organization: In Effect Enterprises
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:57:40 GMT

In article <ukevc.703190988@mcl>, ukevc@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Nonesuch) writes:
> 
> 
> hi
> Can someone tell me where the watchmen FTP is?
> thanks
> kevin
> 
Ditto:

Could some kind soul post this info?  Thanks again, 

Kevvy Kev

Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Metallurgy and Materials Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA