From: scruggs@zeus.franklin.edu (Kevin Scruggs)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: Franklin University (Columbus, OH)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:26:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.133608.24698@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.224704.7444@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>>shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes: >
>
>>>Thus, Maddi, if you find atheism appealing, I won't argue with you.
>>>But attributing your atheism to Judaism's weaknesses is unfair to
>>>Judaism (given your limited exposure to serious Jewish practice)
>>>and demeans atheism (since it implies you adopted it out of ignorance
>>>about Judaism).
>>
>>This is a misprepresentation.  I did not attribute my atheism to
>>Judaism's weakness per se.  I attribute it to a Do As I Say Not
>>As I Do upbringing, and disgust with Religion in General, NOT
>>Judaism specifically.  Furthermore, your continuous reassertion that
>>I am ignorant about Judaism is false no many how many times you
>>repeat it.  (Argumentum ad Nauseum)  Again, my biggest objection
>>to Organized Religion, including Judaism, was sexism.  My second
>>biggest objection is discouragement of independent thinking.
>>Judaism has a much better record than Christianity in this area.
>>My third objection was the outdatedness of many laws and rituals,
>>and again, this applies to most of the religions I looked into.
>>In this case, Judaism has it worse, because of the large number
>>of specific laws that no longer apply or were written for a 
>>society that no longer exists (e.g. Purity Laws, to ensure
>>lots of pregnancies).
>
>Since I have not studied atheism, I cannot respond with much
>authority.  But I do not understand how objections to sexism,
>authoritarianism, or ritualism imply atheism.  Responses to 
>those objections have molded all branches of modern Judaism.
	These things alone dont imply atheism; they imply agnosticism. So far
Maddi has only represented herself as religion-less. When questioned about this privately the only response I got was: read the alt.atheist.FAQ.

	Until I/we hear something more specific in the way of philosphy (meta-
physics,cosmology, epistemology, etc) from her, she's just a long-winded 
agnostic.

>
>I asserteed:
>>>(Incidentally, part of the problem may be that the set of people
>>>who truly understand both atheism and Judaism is VERY VERY small;
>>>furthermore, anyone who claims to know both and adopt one will be
>>>rejected by the other.  
>>
>Maddi responded:
>>I believe this number is far greater than you would like to
>>think.  Just because they aren't posting in s.c.j. does not mean
>>they aren't out there.  I do invite you to lurk on a.a. for a
>>while; there are quite a number of lapsed Jews there.
>
>There are enough lapsed Jews on scj, thank you. [:-)]  And I've done
>enough lapsing myself.  {;-(].  
>
>
>
>>-- 
>>Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
>>Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.
>>
>>Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553
>
>
>-- 
>Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
>   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
>Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
>Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.


-- 

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