From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #959
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:52:57 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #959		             Tue 01 September 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Importing plant species/corn brewing (Aaron Birenboim)
  When to measure SG and what to include? (Rob Bradley)
  Cajun Cooker Enclosure (C.R. Saikley)
  San Antonio: Beer, Music, Food (JIM MCNUTT)
  Sanitizing Bottles.. (7226 Lacroix)
  Fruit crushers/presses for cider--suppliers (Nick Cuccia)
  Storage of bleach solutions (Conn Copas)
  sanitation and questions (CHUCKM)
  Another request (Guy D. McConnell)
  recipe wanted (andre vignos)
  Toronto bound (andre vignos)
  Starting siphons (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  New Jersey brewbubs (Kevin V Martin)
  using fruit juices in ale (jay marshall 283-5903)
  Bring Back Beer from Afar (Joe Rolfe)
  You win, Lumps (Jack Schmidling)
  Oktoberfest, priming & siphoning (Jeff Mizener)
  CT Brewery List - Thanks!!!!! (wiehn)
  wooden kegs ("Stephen G. Pimentel")
  Re: Priming (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Label the bottlecaps instead (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Question on cooling with ice (John DeCarlo)
  Extract quality (Tim P McNerney)
  mashing in a jacket (and tie) (Chuck Cox)
  SG temp. adjustments (Bryan Gros)
  a different kind of fermentation (Frank Tutzauer)
  keg priming (Frank Tutzauer)
  Re: Airstat in a freezer? (Larry Barello)
  Re: Marcato Marga Mullino (Jay Hersh)
  Re:  chicago area homebrew suppliers (whg)
  Bacteria on the Hands (SLK6P)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:13:15 MDT
From: abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Importing plant species/corn brewing

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Importing of plant species
Summary: how do i find out if this is legal?
Expires:
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering Labs
Keywords:


This is a bit off the subject, but i do not know where to go.
My mother just returned from Peru, and at my request brought
back some of their odd corn varieties.  One of which is
a special corn they grow to ferment, which has large kernels.
I am thinking about planting some next spring, and emulating
their recipe, which unfortunately is sketchy.

  1) soak and drain the corn
  2) re-fill with water
  3) cook for a while
  4) add honey
  5) let ferment spontaneously

Well... i do not want to introduce some kind of incredibly
nasty weed to the continent, so how can i find out if this
is OK?

Also... for you o-chem, bio-chem gurus:

   can corn be converted by boiling, or do i need a warm
temp rest like barley.

   Do you think that there may have been a germination
period between the soaking and the cooking?

   My mom's friend will return to peru for x-mas.  At that
time he can get me some of the famed "chicha morada"
purple corn, that they use there for making a yummy
cool-aid like drink.  Just boil the whole purple corn
cobs for a while, and add sugar.  (use the corn like
tea bags)  I have had this chicha morada in LA, and it was
quite good.  I also hear that there is a fermented chicha
morada beverage, which i will try to emulate.  The only
think i know about chicha morada is from the article that
somebody posted here or to HBD about a guy who went into the
indian territories of peru.  i think it was published in
outside or something.

    aaron

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 18:44:24 -0400
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: When to measure SG and what to include?

In HBD #957, Jack talks about when to measure SG and sez:

>...If you measure it after the boil, use the volume after the boil and
>be sure to include the trub left in the bottom of the kettle in the volume.

Any other opinions?  I've always done what Jack says, but I'm never
sure if it's right.  Specifically:

 - the trub is in solution before the cold break and in suspension
   after, right?

 - stuff in suspension doesn't affect SG readings, right?  (E.g.
   throwing wood chips or marbles into wort wouldn't change the
   hydrometer reading.)

 - Does stuff in suspension take up more room than stuff in solution?

 - If the answer to the last on is `yes', then doesn't it mean
   that pre-boil SG is different from post-boil SG, whether you
   include the trub volume or not?

Only wondering.  Wish I remembered more of my pchem.

Cheers,
Rob
(bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:07:59 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Cajun Cooker Enclosure

Sometime back, Phil Miller asked :

>How long can I expect a standard tank of propane to last if I use
>a Cajun Cooker type burner to heat my wort for boiling (i.e., rocket
>blast mode to bring 5-6 gallons to a boil and then idle mode to
>maintain a vigorous boil for 1 1/2 hours)?

About two years ago, Kinney Baughman introduced me to the Cajun Cooker/
Bunsen Burner from Hell. In the intervening time I've worked out a way to
get more mileage out of my propane tank. It was a bit of a project, but
I enjoyed it.

The first time I used it, I was brewing outside on a windy day. When
Alexandra peered out of a second story window, she was shocked to see the
entire garden shimmering from the heat. Being a master of the obvious, I
deduced that too much heat was going into the garden, and not enough into
the beer. At the end of the brew day, my just filled 20 lb propane tank was
75-80% consumed.

I decided to try to improve my efficiency, and seeking inspiration took a
quick look at industrial boiler designs. A common design for high efficiency
entails enclosing the kettle in an outer jacket, and putting the flame
between the two. Further enhancements include adding intake vents at the
bottom, directing the intake gasses thru the center of the flame and not
around it, and providing an exhaust vent at the top. So I went to my friendly
neighborhood homebrew supply shop (Oak Barrel in Berkeley) to get one of these.

What I came home with was an empty 55 gallon drum - malt extract of course.
>From this, I fashioned an enclosure with the afore mentioned vents and
manifolds, added holes for a gas line in and a wort line out, and installed a
door for easy access to the inside. The entire boiler assembly, kettle (Bud
keg), burner, support/manifold, rests inside the 55 gallon drum.

Overall, I'm very happy with the results. The flames are protected from the
elements, and heat transfer is greatly improved (ie the garden no longer
shimmers). I now get 4-5 brew sessions (heat mash water, heat sparge water,
1 1/2 hour boil) on a single fill. As an added benefit, some of the jet engine
noise is muffled.

One of these days I'll get around to modifying those 45 gallon double jacketed
tanks in my back yard.

Cheers,
CR

------------------------------

Date:        Sun, 30 Aug 92 09:48:08 EDT
From: JIM MCNUTT <INJM%MCGILLB.bitnet@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: San Antonio: Beer, Music, Food

I'm going to be in San Antonio, TX for a week in mid November.  I under-
stand that there are no brewpubs in Texas.  I like to drink good beer,
listen to good stomping music, and eat good local food.  If you have any
advice re: these items in San Antonio, please drop me an e-mail
directly.  I don't always have time to read everything in HBD.
Thanks.  Have fun.
Jim McNutt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 09:11:48 MDT
From: stevel@chs.com (7226 Lacroix)
Subject: Sanitizing Bottles..

My method for what it's worth...I wash out my bottles immediately after pouring
the contents into my glass (except the ones I scrounge from the recycle bins
around my house).  Next, I throw them in with all the other dishes currently
in the dishwasher and wash them before storing.  When it's time to bottle, I
bring them out, shoot them with a bottle washer (read invaluable tool).  I
run my dishwasher empty and about half way through the cycle, open the door
and dump a little household bleach in it to clean the inside.  Next I load
the bottles into it and run it.  Again about half way through the cycle, I
open the door and dump a little bleach in.  Finally, I let the heating element
dry the bottles.  I don't open the dishwasher until I'm ready to fill the
first bottle.  I've got a fairly efficient bottling system (and a good brew
partner), IMHO, and from dishwasher to capper is a snap...so the bottom line
is I've never had any problems with infection since I started using this
technique.  This may not be for everybody (like people living in water
restricted areas, but slight modifications might work) but it seems to work
for me.
Now a question...
Why in the H am I getting low hydrometer readings on extract brews??  Am I
just *lame* or what?? (no I haven't ruled out that possibility).  The
instructions that came with the meter are pretty simple, but the OG always
seems to be low.  The info in Line's BB of B (those formulas on page 149,
I think) seem to produce the expected OGs, but who knows.  I check the meter
in 60F H20 and it is fine...I read a recent posting about problem readings so
this isn't just my imagination (but then again the 60's were...).  Any
 thoughts?Thanks in advance for any opinions or enlightenment.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 12:09:52 -0700
From: Nick Cuccia <cuccia@remarque.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Fruit crushers/presses for cider--suppliers

This is in response to Chis Campanelli's request for suppliers of fruit
crushing and pressing equipment that would be appropriate for cider making.

My list is basically formatted as follows:

	Supplier
	Address
	Phone Number(s)
	Supplies		Price

Note that since I haven't dealt with many of these vendors, inclusion in this
list does not constitute an endorsement; it just means that I have their
catalog handy.

If you have any additions, post them!

- --Nick

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beer and Wine Hobby
180 New Boston Street, Rear, Woburn, MA 01801-6206
(Mail order: PO Box 3104, Wakefield, MA 01880-0772
617/933 8818	800/523-5423	617/662-0872 (fax)
Presses	and Crushers		$115 and up--CALL FOR DETAILS;
				STOCKED DURING AUG/SEP/OCT ONLY!

Jim's 5c Homebrew
2619 N. Division
Spokane, WA 99207
509/328 4850	800/326 7769
Plastic wine press		$98.50
Wooden presses			CALL

Brewmaster
2315 Verna Court
San Leandro, CA 94577
510/351 8920	800/288 8922	510/351 4090 (fax)
Plastic fruit press		$95.00
Grape press (#15-#55)		$135.00-$600.00
Apple crusher			$210.00-$240.00

Semplex of USA
4159 Thomas Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 55412
612/ 522 0500
Plastic fruit press		$99.50
Pulpmaster (pulps apples,	$24.95
  attaches to bucket & drill)

Wine Hobby USA
2306 West Newport Pike
Stanton, DE 19804
302/998 8303
Fruit Crusher (wood)		$89.00
9x11 Fruit Press, wood handle	$89.99
9x11 Fruit Press, metal handle	$98.00
Plastic fruit press		$79.95
14x14 Fruit Press		$229.95
(Other models and sizes available on a special order basis)

The Cellar
PO Box 33525
14411 Greenwood Ave. North
Seattle, WA 98133
206/365 7600	206/365 7677 (fax)
Apple Mill (comb. crusher&press)	$575.00
Small fruit crusher		$99.00
Plastic wine press		$98.95
Wine basket presses		$289.00-$529.00

The following also carries crushers and presses, but lists them in their
wine, cider, and mead supplies catalog:

Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa
840 Piner Road #14
Santa Rosa, CA 95403
707/544 2520 (advice line)	800/544 1867 (orders)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 21:48:25 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Storage of bleach solutions

A number of texts say that re-use of bleach solutions is not advisable, whereas
it is OK for sulphite up to 3 weeks. Is this suggesting that chlorine degrades
with time, even in a sealed container?

- --
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : (0509)610815
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain                 (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk


------------------------------

Date: 31 Aug 92 08:33:34 EDT
From: CHUCKM@CSG3.Prime.COM
Subject: sanitation and questions

Hi everyone...
I have a couple of questions and a few thoughts (about brewing)

1.  What is the difference between aeration and oxydation?

2.  Re: Sanitation.... How do the breweries handle this? Do they ever
     get bad batches that they must dump or do they have some magic way
     of salvaging....

    Some brewers use open fermenters  (Anchor, Pilsner Urquell, etc). Why
    don't they have sanitary problems. I would never think of fermenting
    in the open, but Pilsner Urquell does it in caves with no apparent
    problems.... Any comments?

3.  How is alpha acid content measured and Can I easily do it at home for
    my home grown hops. Will the AA content of homegrown hops vary significantly
    from the published ranges for a given species.

Thanks in advance....
chuckm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 9:00:36 CDT
From: guy@mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell)
Subject: Another request


Jon Binkley writes:

> Just a friendly reminder that some of us read the Digest on
> antiquated equipment.  My piece of sh** terminal, for example,
> doesn't even wrap lines properly, so any line over 80 chars.
> is hopelessly garbled.  I missed much of two very interesting
> articles in today's digest.

    Also, with the Digest now being over 1000 lines virtually every day , I
think it prudent to remind everyone to try and shorten their signature files
to a line or two.  With so many articles every day, signature lines make up a
significant part of the total bandwidth.  For what it's worth...

- --
Guy McConnell  guy@mspe5.b11.ingr.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:22:11 EDT
From: andre vignos <andre@Think.COM>
Subject: recipe wanted


     The last time I was in germany, the 1986 octoberfest, I stopped up in
Bamberg Germany to pick up a friend who was stationed there. We stayed a
couple nights in the area and sampled some quality brew. There was one type
that I absolutely loved but I have never seen any bottled form of it, much
less a brewpub that serves it. It is served with a thin lemon slice in a
pilsner glass and is a wheat beer known as "crystalweissen". Being german I
understand what the name means(doesn't take a genious). What I was wondering
was, does any body have a recipe for said beer?

                                        -Andre

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:44:59 EDT
From: andre vignos <andre@Think.COM>
Subject: Toronto bound


     I'm going to toronto next week and am looking for some good beer to
drink, preferably at a brew pub, but I'm willing to try some bottled
varieties.


                                   -Andre

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 08:41:01 pdt
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42@pollux.svale.hp.com
Subject: Starting siphons

I read this trick in the digest a long time ago and it works well for me...

1. Put a short piece of sanitized hose (or plastic tube) on the "out" end of
   your siphon.
2. Put the "in" end of your siphon in the wort.
3. Lift up a bunch of the siphon hose and suck a bunch of wort into the tube,
   but not enough to get "over the hump" and into your dirty mouth.
4. Drop the filled siphon hose so it is below the level in the carboy, but keep
   the "out" end up high. Pull of the dirty piece from step 1.

Your siphon is ready to run. I also use a plastic cane at both ends of my
siphon hose. It makes handling the thing much easier. See Below...

       )))))))))))))              _
     )))))))))))))))\            / \  <--- Cane #1
    ))))))))))))     |          /   h
   ))))))))/ \))     |         /    h
   )))))))| C     <_0         /      h  <-- Flexible hose (fill to here)
   ))))))) \          \      /         h           __
   )))))))  U          \    /            h        /  \  <-- Cane #2
    ))))))           c__)  /               h     h    |
    )))))             |   h                  h h      |
    ))))          \---hh h                           -|-
      |       \       \    \_Removable              | | |
      |        \______/      Hose               ___/  |  \___
      |          |                             /      |      \
      |          >                             |      |      |
      |          |                             |^^^^^^|^^^^^^|
                                               |      |      | <-- Carboy
                                               |             |
                                               |             |
                                               |             |
                                               |             |
                                               |_____________|

                        "STARTING THE SIPHON - STEP 1"



       )))))))))))))
     )))))))))))))))\
    ))))))))))))     |
   ))))))))/ \))     |
   )))))))| C     <_0              /---- Stop sucking!
   ))))))) \          \           /                __
   )))))))  U          \         /                /  \  <-- Cane #2
    ))))))           c__)       /                h    |
    )))))             |    <---/                h     |
    ))))          \---hh h                     h     -|-
      |       \       \    h                  h     | | |
      |        \______/      \              h   ___/  |  \___
      |          |            \            h   /      |      \
      |          >             \         h     |      |      |
      |          |         /--> \       h      |^^^^^^|^^^^^^|
                          /      \     h       |      |      | <-- Carboy
                         /        \   h        |             |
                        /          \_/         |             |
    Fluid is now to here                       |             |
                                               |             |
                                               |_____________|




Anyone want me to illustrate a book?

Mike Schrempp

Beer is fun, beer is good
If you don't like mine...
You're a lame piece of wood.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 12:59:28 EDT
From: Kevin V Martin <kmartin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: New Jersey brewbubs


Does anyone have a list of brewpubs and/or good drinking bars in the Southern
New Jersey or Philadelphia areas?  I know this has been asked before, but I
didn't save the info ;).
Thanks,  Kevin Martin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 11:18:21 CDT
From: jay marshall 283-5903 <marshall@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: using fruit juices in ale

I would like to make a cherry ale and thought that I had heard someone
say that you could get pasteurized cherries at the local Whole Foods.
When I went to check it out, all I could find was 100% cherry juice.
I was going to use about 5 lbs of cherries for a 5 gallon batch.  If I
were to use this cherry juice instead, how much would be approximately
equivalent?  Has anyone out there used the juice before?  Also, are there
any clarifying agents needed when you use fruits (or juice) in beer?  I was
going to add this to the secondary for a week or so...

thanks

Jay


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:24:19 EDT
From: Joe Rolfe <jdr@wang.com>
Subject: Bring Back Beer from Afar

hi all

one method a friend in Canada uses - very well to boot - is to declare all
bottles as Yeast Samples - for lab purposes, not for consumption.

to really do this you have to remove the labels (relable with coded - home
brew type to keep them identifiable) and add the yeast sample not for
human consumption lab crap.

this friend makes trips to/from the US/Canada and Europe amonst others
and has never had any trouble.  i would investigate the exact rule that allows
this type of duty free transfer - to expunge it upon the customs people.

if you seem to know what your talking about they leave you alone...


just another data point

joe rolfe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 08:48 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: You win, Lumps


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 >From: jdsgeoac@typhoon (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
 >Subject: Brewing Disaster

 >Then disaster...The wash tub broke off the wall, landed on his foot, and
 spilled its contnents.  The wort/water mix quickly found the stairs and
 ended up in the family room.  The builder had molly bolted the wash tub
 to the wall and counted on the plastic pipe to hold the weight.

 >This certainly was not a "Easy chill Method".  Has anyone had a worse
 first brewing experiance?

 I think you win and possibly for an alltime brewing experience.

 >From: stevie@spss.com
 >Subject: WHO IS WHO IN CHICAGO? A response.

 I think I had enough fun with this just to let it drop.  Suffice it to say
 that I took my lumps from my Milwaukee beer and thank those who defended it
 and grin at those who trashed it.

 And yes, "conspiracy" is a fun trigger word and all I can say from the
 reaction is that it was either a lousy joke or a totally ineffective
 conspiracy... take your pick.

 js




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 15:05:27 EDT
From: avalon!jm@siemens.siemens.com (Jeff Mizener)
Subject: Oktoberfest, priming & siphoning

First, travel question:

	When is Oktoberfest (the one in Munich)?

Other stuff:

I've had the bubbles-form-at-the-intersection-of-the-racking-tube-and-
siphon-hose blues for some time now.  I have used tiny hose clamps,
cable ties (Ty-Wraps) and heavy twist ties to try to get a seal.  The
cable tie works well but costs a cable tie per batch.  Does anyone have
a reusable solution?  We seem to have a lot of chemists out there...
I know that the problem is caused by a siphon hose that's slightly too
large, caused by what we in industry politely call "production tolerances".
The tiny hose clamps work pretty well if you put them where the racking
tube is _straight_.  Any suggestions?

When people bulk prime, they add (something sweet) to the beer in the
fermenter.  Then they presumably stir it up.  Which causes all sorts
of gunk to be stirred up from the bottom.  Do we all solve this problem
by racking first to another container?  (Primary > secondary > priming vessel?)
Or what?

Neat idea for starting siphons:  At my local homebrew dealer I saw a little
pump humming away attached to a tube that went down inside a little 'mini
carboy' (a gallon jug) to a thing with thousands of tiny holes in it out of
which  were streaming tiny bubbles.  In the middle of the tube was a small
disk-shaped thingy.  In response to my question, it was explained that this
thingy was a filter and the whole assembly was used to oxygenate beer
during the early stages of fermentation.  The filter keeps the nasties
out.  Cool.  Now we use an orange carboy cap connected to the filter
to the pump (a simple aquarium pump they said).  Through the other hole
goes the racking tube into the beer, with the siphon hose at the other
end.  An on-off switch controls the pump.

Overkill, right?  I thought so.  Sorry.

Cheers,

	Jeff (Member, Gadgeteers Anonymous)
	jm@sead.siemens.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:40:29 EDT
From: wiehn@evax.gdc.com
Subject: CT Brewery List - Thanks!!!!!

Several weeks ago I posted a request for help in obtaining information on
gathering a list of Connecticut Breweries for a patron who uses my companies'
library.  Through the help of the following people I found my answer:

    Bob Menk (bmenk@bbn.con)
    Carl West (eisen@kopf.hq.ileaf.com)
    Richard Akerboom (boomer@sylsoft.com)
    Tracy Waldon (waldon@Macc.wisc.edu)

Thanks to the above 4 people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone needs to know about Connecticut Breweries (Names/Dates...Etc) let
us know.

John Wiehn
General DataComm, Inc.
Corporate Librarian
Email: WIEHN@EVAX.GDC.COM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:19 GMT
From: "Stephen G. Pimentel" <0004876702@mcimail.com>
Subject: wooden kegs

The recent postings on old brewing techniques piqued my
curiosity about the possible use of wooden kegs. Naturally,
these were all that were available to earlier brewers.  Wineries
use them (old bourbon kegs sometimes) to age red wines for
that oaky taste.  Does anyone use wooden kegs to store beer?
Would there be some taste advantage to doing so? How would
you make them clean enough to use? I've read in books
lamenting this century's loss of old-time country living in
Britain sorrowful remarks that no one uses wood anymore
only aluminium which (it is claimed) gives the beer a lifeless
quality.

Rachel

------------------------------

Date: Monday, 31 Aug 1992 16:33:12 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Priming

>From: JEFF@RCC.RTI.ORG

>>From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS@adc1.adc.ray.com>
>>Subject: Question about adding yeast at bottling time.

>>I have a question about the addition of yeast at bottling time.  Is this
>>recommended, and if so how much yeast should be added for a 5 gallon
>>batch?  The reason I ask is that I have repeatedly primed with 3/4 cup of
>>corn sugar and have gotten poor carbonation.

>Your problem is probably in leaving it in the secondary for 4-5
>weeks.  Most ales should be completely fermented out in 7-14
>days (if 65F or warmer).  Even when I brew lagers, I only let it
>sit in the secondary at 50F for three weeks.  Indeed the yeast
>WILL settle out.  At that point, more sugar isn't the answer.
>You may need additional YEAST.  But again, the best solution is
>to bottle after 7-14 days (take a hydrometer reading to know
>when to bottle).

As with all these discussions, your brewing environment comes
into play.  I routinely leave my brew in the secondary for weeks
and months (I have a porter in the secondary that has been there
since April).  As the proud father of a 27-month old and a 4
month old, plus having other duties around the house, bottling
may take a back seat to other activities.  So, I keep plenty of
secondaries around.

Anyway, I have never had a carbonation problem no matter how long
I left it in the secondary, but then my basement never gets below
55 and is mostly around 60 in the winter and 68-70 in the summer.
If I put some bottles in the refrigerator too soon, then they
won't be fully carbonated.

So, do what works for you, but try to isolate the important
variables in your environment (is priming sugar being left in the
sludge of your bottling bucket, are you storing bottles in the
fridge, are the caps on tight, etc.?) and only worry about the
right ones.  I no longer worry about some aspects, but my dusty,
moldy, mildewy basement requires that I not skip any sanitizing
steps while I am racking down there.


Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date: Monday, 31 Aug 1992 16:33:31 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Label the bottlecaps instead

>From: Dances with Workstations <buchman@marva1.ENET.dec.com>

>Something that works well for home use: label the bottlecaps,
>not the bottles.  We use the little adhesive dots that you put
>on a diskette to show its density; or you can get stars, etc.

That is what I use (actually, nowadays, I just buy the little
white dots and write on them a two or three letter code).
However, this works poorly when you have guests trying many
different styles (say at a homebrew club meeting, or a party at
your house), because once the caps come off, it becomes difficult
to tell what is in each of those dozen bottles on the counter.

Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date: Monday, 31 Aug 1992 16:33:48 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Question on cooling with ice

>From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS@adc1.adc.ray.com>

>1)  On page 367 of TNCJOHB, one of Charlie's tips includes:
>"Do not add ice to your wort in order to cool it."

>In the past I have found the addition o ice quickly brings the
>temperature of the wort to yeast pitching temperatures.  Could
>someone please explain the concern of using ice?

The basic concern with using ice is that it may be highly
contaminated.  There is often quite a bit of bacteria in a home
freezer, not to mention the possibility of picking up strange
tastes or smells.

I always boil up some water, put it in heavy plastic and cover,
then cool then freeze.  Result, sanitized ice you can use safely
to cool your wort.



Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:54:28 PDT
From: tpm%wdl58@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: Extract quality


Well, I expect I am asking a lot, but it cannot hurt to try.

I am currently an extract brewer and have been buying whatever the
brewstore I am shopping at carries in bulk, since it is both cheaper
and I can get whatever quantity I want.  I would like to try some
other extracts, but I have a difficult time in what amounts to about
double what I pay for bulk extract without knowing whether it would
be better (or even as good).

So, what I was wondering was whether anyone had ever made a
(semi)comprehensive survey of extract (kits) that are available, rating
quality of beer made, characteristics of the extract, average price
and whatnot (basically a Consumer's Report article on malt extracts).

Barring that, what extracts have you used that you like/dislike?

- --Tim McNerney
- --tpm@wdl1.wdl.loral.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:30:30 EDT
From: chuck@synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: mashing in a jacket (and tie)

While I am trying to get some stainless false-bottoms for the
AcoustiMash, I am also formulating the first recipe.  I will be brewing
a 10 gallon stout, probably around 1060 OG.  I know its not exactly
traditional, but its based on a recipe I really like.

In planning the mash, I ran into an interesting question involving heat
loss when mashing-in.  We know that you generally heat your mash water
about 18 deg F over your initial mash temperature to accomodate the
relatively cool grain.  This assumes you are using an insulated mash
tun.

The AcoustiMash has a substantial (>20gal) thermostatically heated water
jacket surrounding the two tuns.  The mash water comes from this jacket.
Tests, extrapolation, and some wild guesses suggest that when full of
water, I can expect about 1 degree F temperature rise per minute from
the 1.5kW heater.  Since the system heats much faster than it cools, it
would be better to under-shoot than over-shoot the initial temperature.

My gut feeling is that I should simply set the thermostat for the
initial mash temperature, and stir the mash well for a few minutes.  I
think the system has so much thermal mass that the grain won't have any
serious effect on the equilibrium temperature.  Theoretically, any minor
cooling would be quickly handled by the heater.

Any comments?

- --
Chuck Cox <chuck@synchro.com>
In de hemel is geen bier, daarom drinken wij het hier.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:15:30 PDT
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: SG temp. adjustments

Can anyone give me the adjustments to SG readings at different
temperatures?  I guess this scale is pretty
non-linear?

I was trying to measure the gravity of my spargings last
weekend and wasn't sure how much to adjust for the
temperature.  The measurements were interesting however.

After the sparge I got a reading of the wort of about 54.
This would be at around 150F.  I was shooting for about 75
(Christmas beer), so I ran to the store and got some bulk
extract syrup.  I figured I'd worry about where I lost my
efficiency later, and added three pounds of syrup.  The
man at the store figured one pound of syrup would raise
the gravity of 5 gallons of wort by 7 points.  My
gravity measurement after the boil and after the added
syrup, and after cooling to 60F was 92!  (for 3.5 to 4
gallons of wort).  So I guess I didn't need to add
the syrup after all.  And my efficiency is not as bad
as I thought.  I gotta get rid of this electric stove
though...

                                 - Bryan

------------------------------

Date: 31 Aug 1992 17:22:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: a different kind of fermentation

Hi ya'll.  Well, I finally (after 3 weeks :-O ) racked my steam beer.
After tasting and taking a s.g., it is clear that the fermenation has
not proceeded the way it usually does.  Nothing really to worry about,
but I thought I'd ask for your ideas about what you think is going on.

First, the recipe:  I used 6 lbs of light dried malt extract, some crystal,
some pale malt, 1 oz of 6.5 Northern Brewers for 50 min, 1 oz for 1 min,
(I estimated about 30 or so International Bittering Units)
and Wyeast 2035 (American Lager).  It's a recipe I have made many times
before.  I ferment anywhere from the high 50s to the low 70s depending
on time of year.  It usually finishes anywhere from 1.008 to about 1.015,
and is one of my favorite beers to brew.

After racking, I tasted the sample.  Very good, but too sweet.  A hydrometer
reading confirmed:  1.022, higher than I expected after three weeks
(although I once bottled at 1.028--fermentation definitely over--and it
was my best batch ever.  I had more hops that time, though.)

O.k.  Differences in procedure between this batch and others of the
same ilk.

1.  The yeast had been frozen with glycerin.  Usually, I make a starter
from the package, or from bottle dregs.  This is the first time I've
ever used the glycerin.  The yeast had (I guess) settled to the
bottom.  I poured off most of the glycerin and used the test tube
dregs to make my starter.  I don't know whether or not there was
yeast suspended in the discarded glycerin.  This time the starter smelled
and tasted "woody"--usually it smells and tastes like sour apples.

2.  I used Laaglander dried malt extract.  Usually I use Munton
& Fison.

3.  This was the second batch I made using my new wort chiller.  So
I had a full boil (instead of three gallons), and I had a MUCH bigger
cold break.  Since I'm still learning about the chiller, I ended up
with a lot more trub in the fermenter than usual.  (No way I expected
that much, so I didn't give it long enough to settle--and then I was too
lazy to rack.)

4.  I let it go three weeks in the primary.  Usually, I rack after about
four days, or if I'm lazy, let it go two weeks and then bottle.

There was a very vigorous ferment, but without as much blowoff or
kraeusen as usual.  Although what stuck to the shoulders of the
carboy was denser than usual.  For the first few days, the "woody"
smell, rather than the "sour apples" smell emanated from the
carboy.  The beer has not cleared as well as usual
(but jeez with all that trub, it's to be expected.  The little
orange thingy on the racking tube wasn't even big enough to
clear the trub/yeast!)

So I'm interested in your opinions on why the gravity is still
so high.  My guesses are:

1.  The freezer/glycerin mutated, degraded, or otherwise affected
the yeast.

2.  The heat knocked out the yeast.  It IS a lager yeast, afterall,
and I suppose there might have been a day or two up above 75F,
but most of the time the temp was 68-73.

3.  Laaglander is a lot less fermentable than M&F.

4.  The quantitiy of trub and length of time spent on the trub
adversely affected fermentation.

Right now, I'm leaning to a combination of 1 and 3.  Since the
starter smelled and tasted differently, the yeast was obviously
somehow different.  Also, I bet the extract is less fermentable,
although I have no experience with Laaglander, so I don't know.

Anyway, my current plan is to let it go another week in the secondary.
The sweetness doesn't bother me that much, because I can always
doctor it up with a little isomerized hop extract before bottling.
I suppose I could pitch some more yeast, but right now I'm inclined
to RDWHAHB.  On the other hand, I AM curious as to what you folks
think is going on here.  Like the one guy's sig file says, when
I stop learning, bury me.

- --frank

------------------------------

Date: 31 Aug 1992 17:27:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: keg priming

Well, the folks on R.C.B couldn't help me with this, so I'll ask here.
(Actually, I would have asked here first, but I didn't have my
digest address handy.)

We all know that when naturally carbonating a Cornelius keg, you
decrease the amount of priming sugar--like down to 1/3 of a cup,
rather than the usual 3/4 c. for bottles.  My question is this:  Why?
My reasoning is that five gallons of beer is five gallons of beer,
and the 5-6 psi you use for sealing the seals and dispensing the
beer shouldn't make that much difference.  Does it?  Or is there
some other reason?

- --frank


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 15:07:34 PDT
From: polstra!larryba@uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: Airstat in a freezer?


Hunter Air-Stats work great in chest freezers.  Just put the sensor
on the keg or carboy.  They are available from:

American Science Surplus.  $19.50 + Shipping.  #22345

1-708-475-8840

Mine cost $24 by the time it showed up at my doorstep in Seattle.
- --
Larry Barello			uunet!polstra!larryba

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 19:34:18 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Marcato Marga Mullino


Darren asks about how I modified the roller

       ..................................
     /  --------------------------------  \
    |   --------------------------------   |
    |   --------------------------------   |
     \ .................................. /

Yes basically the grooves ran from one of the roller to the other
along the long axis of the roller, as Darren acurately depicted.

I only put 4 grooves into 1 of the 2 top rollers. These grooves
were placed at right angles (i.e. evenly distributed) about
the roller. I considered using as many as 8, but things seemed
to work well with only 4 so I stopped there. I think if you added
too many then you would reduce the surface area without grooves, which
does the crushing. The crush occurs between the top 2 rollers and the third
(bottom) roller.

I dissassembled the unit to put the grooves on, but by popping off the
plastic hopper up top the rollers are directly acessible (it is made to
pop off without breaking...) and you can just pick one of the 2 top rollers
and score it right in place with the unit bolted to a bench. Score a groove,
rotate the rollers 90 degrees, score a groove and repeat.....


	JaH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:09:50 CDT
From: whg@tellabs.com
Subject: Re:  chicago area homebrew suppliers


An unconfirmed rumour I have heard is that Chicago Indoor Garden is going to
open a new outlet in the 1800 N Clybourn mall.  For those who don't know this
is the mall that houses the Goose Island Brewery, and sight of the monthly
CBS meetings.

Any confirmation out there?

Walter
Walter Gude    ||   whg@tellabs.com

------------------------------

Date: 01 Sep 1992 01:00:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: SLK6P@CC.USU.EDU
Subject: Bacteria on the Hands

There was a note in the last HBD about the use of hands on
siphon tubes, and the bacteria on them.  I don't recall who it was
but he described his science teacher's growth experiment.

The claim that makes me cringe is that of "hands having a natural
bacteriocide".  There is some truth to this, but it is a bit off
and potentially dangerously misleading.

FYI:  There are two major classes of microoganisms found on hands (skin)
Resident= the normal flora of the hands (bacteria, yeasts, fungi, - these
are generally harmless, and difficult to remove.) Transient= "passing"
microbes often picked up from other surfaces.  Are generally easier to
remove and can be potentially pathogenic (depending on the type/source).
There is some truth to the "natural bacteriocide" in that the resident
microbes can actually serve some protection from transients by outcompeting
them for nutrients and even producing inhibitory metabolites.

The real problem here:  is that transients come off easily. That can mean
into your beer or on your siphon tubes.  If you eat a salmonella covered
chicken sandwich, then dip your hands in your brew, you're asking for
trouble.  In the same respect, picking your nose, scratching your butt,
petting your dog- can result in similar transfer of "bad bugs".

My suggestion:  Don't be paranoid, be sensible.  Wash your hands thoroughly
before contacting your beer/beer implements.  Dipping them into your
chlorine solution wouldn't hurt either (unless it's REALLY strong!).  If you
are worried (first, don't be...) then use a scrub brush, and wash down
several times.  Use common sense and sanitary practice.  Don't change the baby's
 diaper as you bottle your beer.  But do not believe that your hands
are naturally sterile and "protected" from picking up bacteria.
You are a jungle of microorganisms.  From your hair to your toe nails
You contain  a plethora of bugs you probably don't want in your beer.
(this does include your breath btw.  Just as you wouldn't want to sneeze
into a carboy, its best to avoid puffing in your beer too.)  If you don't
believe me- get a plate of rich medium and stick your finger on it.
Then count the number of colors/shapes/sizes of growth which appear in a
week.  It's impressive.

Another note:  For culturing yeasts.  I would highly recommend the use of
flame ( a good time for flaming...) on such things as inoculating loops,
test tubes etc.  Rinsing them with chlorine is not always a good idea.
1.  You don't want chlorine solutions contacting the yeast culture.
2.  Chlorine can damage inoculating loop metal, and other metals...etc.
Besides for ~ $10-15 you can get a small propane torch and tank of gas to

sterilize utensils/glassware.  Alternatively-  dipping into EtOH, then
burning the EtOH will effectively sterilize many surfaces.
(Esp glass rods).Gas flames are a common piece of equipment in any micro
lab.  The sterile box sounded like an easy thing to create.  I just use
the desk in my bedroom sprayed down w/lysol and wiped with EtOH.  It is
away from the bathroom/kitchen "cultures" of wild bugs.  It is also a good
idea to turn of fans, close windows, or doors to minimize movement of air.
A small propane burner takes up less space, and a good room probably do
more for me than a sterile hood would (I have several at work/school- but
feel comfortable with a careful technique, decent space, and some
common sense)

      Enuf bantering.   Hell- just Brew!    John Wyllie SLK6P@cc.usu.edu

------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #959, 09/01/92
*************************************
-------