HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peters@convex.com (James Peters)
Subject: p-town swim for life sept. 13, 1992
Keywords: provincetown swim for life hyannis kennedys
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 14:52:21 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

The 5th annual provincetown harbor swim for life will be taking place
sunday september 13, 1992.

The swim is a straight line course of 1.4 miles from long point light
to the boatslip. The water is normally in the mid-seventies and is 
very calm with good visibility. I personally would recommend this for
any novice open water swimmer for the emphasis of this swim is not 
purely competitive. The swim is also entertaining for seasoned open
water competitors given the location and scenery. The DMSE craigville
beach triathlon in hyannis, ma is the day before, saturday september
12, 1992, so you can experience the upper and lower cape in the same
weekend, what a bonus!

For more information on the swim for life write, provincetown swim for
life, po box 819, provincetown, ma 02657 or telephone (508) 487-3684.
Entry is fairly liberal for this event so you can show up sunday morning
and take the plunge. The swim for life is organized by jay critchley and
benefits: provincetown positive people with aids coalition, provincetown
aids support group, and the family tree project.

For information on the craigville beach tri contact DMSE reference your
triathlon news for phone. There is going to be registration saturday
morning but the field is limited so i would contact DMSE directly.

tri harder and swim faster,
james, peters@convex.com
From: fog@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Fogelquist)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:31:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Books on swimming
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming

My favorite book is Ernie Maglisco's "Swimming Faster".  It is beyond
merely outstanding.  It covers everything that you could possibly want
to know.  The only downside is that it's a little expensive at $35.00.

Lar!
From: timc@sunpool.EBay.Sun.COM (Tim Cespedes)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:02:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: timc@sunpool.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunpool.ebay.sun.com


In article 24074@leland.Stanford.EDU, tomas@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas J. Monica) writes:
>
>I always thought that if I could get a partner about my speed we could take turns drafting (run a paceline) and kick some ***. But then, we'd both want to spriunt the finish.
>
>Tom
>

I always thought it would be great to have an open water swim with teams
and actually ENCOURAGE drafting.  The race would be something like:

	Distance:	2 miles
	Team:		Each team consists of 4 swimmers.
			(You could have different divisions
			 like mens, womens, mixed, family, etc.)
	Goal:		Get all 4 swimmers across the finish line.
			(So 1st place goes to the 1st team with ALL 4
			 swimmers across the line.  2nd goes to the 
			 2nd fastest team, etc.)

The natural strategy would be to set up your draft line and rotate
the leaders.  But, since one team might draft off of another, a
different strategy would be to put your strongest swimmer at the
end of your line.  Have him drop off the pace enough so that he
(and the drafting team behind him) didn't get any more draft.
Then he would break away and sprint back up to his team.  He could
rest once he got back in the wake and hopefully, the other team
couldn't keep up.  I suppose he could also lead the other team
off course.

Tim
From: brucec@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Bruce Cheney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Headaches With Paddles - Weird Stuff!
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:37:44 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.

Are you wearing your paddles on your hands?

Bruce Cheney

:) Just thought I would ask!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: chucksi@stc.comm.mot.com (Charlie)
Subject: Headaches With Paddles - Weird Stuff!
Organization: none
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:07:27 GMT

Just curious if anyone else has experienced this...I typically swim 4K a day.
i don't use Paddles/pull Buoys 'til 2500 yards into the workout...but what 
happens is I do a 600-800 yard continous with paddles and pull bouys and 
towards the end of that set, I get this splitting tension headache that is
only relieved when I take the paddles and goggles off for set warmdown...
before you say, "Your goggles are on too tight", let me note that this only 
happens with a continuous swim of 500 yards or more with paddles on...any other
set without paddles never results in this tension headache? Anyone even heard
of this? It's really odd....

			Chuck
-- 
Chuck Siu		"If I'd never met you, I........" 
chucksi@comm.mot.com	 -Robert Redford to Lena Olin    "Havana"
			 
			 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: Re: Contacts?
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:00:00 GMT

I remember reading some years ago in a reputable health newsletter that a rare
eye problems can ensue when wearing contact lens whilst swimming.  I have found
that just wearing goggles appears to give me better vision.  There also are now
available off-the-shelf goggles which emulate close to one's prescription!


						Bohdan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I speak for myself.  They wouldn't dare!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: smith@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au (Scott Smith)
Subject: Re: Books on swimming
Organization: External Studies, Murdoch University
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 00:40:02 GMT

In article <bryan.714538493@seidel>, bryan@seidel.ucsb.edu writes:
> 
> What are some good books on competitive swimming?
> I read James Counsilman's "The science of swimming" 
> (Prentice-Hall, 1968) about 20 years ago when I was
> on a high-school team, and now that my son is 
> starting to swim on a team, I was wondering what a
> good current book is.  Is Counsilman's book considered
> dated now, or is it still the swimmer's bible?
> 
> Tom Bryan
> University of California
> Santa Barbara
> bryan@gauss.ece.ucsb.edu
> 

Tom (and others)

Counsilman's book is still valid as many of the training theories and aspects
related to biomechanics still stand.  I have found a couple of books that are
okay, but are not as thorough as Counsilmans.  The Canada/Australian Coaching
Manual is good for beginning coachs or coachs training novices.  I still use
it to determine the best effort levels for the sets.

The other book is a recent one written by Laurie Lawerence (the Australian
Coach)  I can't think of the exact title, but I have heard that it sheds new
light on training methods.

cheers
Scott
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Covert Bailey: Kook or Quack?
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:47:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bu2n37.JvM
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur) writes:

>As for not sweating, I believe that he's got to get out there and do some
>good swimming.  I always get dehidrated after a workout, and most of it is
>a result of sweating.

Wait a minute.  This guy you're talking about thinks that you don't
sweat by swimming?  He must not have a lot of real swimming experience.
								Peder
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Covert Bailey: Kook or Quack?
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:48:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bu2n5K.Jx9
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

>In <183a1jINNfvr@hpscdf.scd.hp.com> schmitz@scd.hp.com (John Schmitz) writes:

>> He also claims you can't sweat in the water.

Who is this guy?
Does he claim to know anything about swimming?
					Peder
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 2 Sep 1992 13:04:17 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

>real men don't wear rubber nor draft,
>james, peters@convex.com

Really?

So, real men should accept to die, too, in the name of their machismo?

I'd rather say, real men don't cry when they are outsmart by other 
"not-so-real" men.

Sasha
From: schmitz@scd.hp.com (John Schmitz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:49:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Santa Clara Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsceo.scd.hp.com

peters@convex.COM (James Peters) writes:
> i consider outlawing masters open water
> drafting a minor crusade of mine.

Why?  Like drafting in cycling, it just makes everything a bit more
complicated.  But as long as everybody plays by the same rules, why
not?  I also doubt that the results would change significantly in
most races if drafting were abolished.

On the subject of keeping course: unless you are very fast, you can
usually easily take an average reading of all the bodies in front
of you and just go for it.  You only have to check now and then to
make sure the lemmings aren't following the wrong course entirely!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: alan@techlaw.ogi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Archive
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:59:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: techlaw.1992Sep2.005927.2181
Organization: MARGER JOHNSON McCOLLOM & STOLOWITZ Inc, Portland OR

Is there an archive for rec.sport.swimming?  I only recently was able to  
receive this newsgroup and would be interested in seeing past postings if  
available. 

Thanks,

Alan
---
Marger Johnson McCollom & Stolowitz Inc.	
	Patent Attorneys & Technology Lawyers	
Portland, Oregon
 	 
    Internet: 	alan@techlaw.com
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 4 Sep 1992 14:09:44 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <lafjmsINN7a@male.EBay.Sun.COM> timc@sunpool.EBay.Sun.COM writes:

This sounds pretty cool, however I wonder if you saw the 10,000 meter race in
the Olympics with the Kenyans and the Morrocans fighting for their own tactics.
It could get messy out there.  What I would do, I would bring 4 water-polo
players and run some "picks" to get the other teams out of competition.

Just kidding.  I've heard about things like this in teams swimathons, where you
have to cover 100 laps with a certain # of swimmers.

Sasha.
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 4 Sep 1992 10:53:03 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep2.225246.20068@leland.Stanford.EDU> tomas@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas J. Monica) writes:

>BTW, if you rember the Seol Olympics, the Austrailian who won the 100, said he
>beat Biondi by getting in his draft for most of the race!

It was the 200 freestyle.  I guess if you call it "freestyle" you should allow
anything, right?  Just kidding.  However, I never understood why Matt did not
get away from that guy after first 100.
From: royd@spider.co.uk (Roy Donaldson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Speedo goggles.
Date: 1 Sep 92 08:55:50 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

Hi There,

I've recently just bought myself a new pair of Speedo goggles, the 
Endurance Anti-Fog UV pair, after leaving an identical pair behind in the
changing rooms :(. This new pair seems to have a different set of sizes for
the nose pieces provided. My last pair had sizes, 4, 6 & 12 and this new 
pair came with 3, 7 & 11. The problem is that none of the new nose pieces
keep the water out, the size 4 I had before was perfect !

Could anyone give me the contact address (preferably phone number) for Speedo
in Britain (though I'll phone Canada if needs be) so I can try to obtain
the correct size ? It's annoying as it's stopping me swimming, taking
me down from 3km to under 2km because of water in my eyes.

Thanks in advance,

Roy.


-- 
---                            
J. Roy Donaldson      |  Spider Systems Ltd.  |      Spider Systems Ltd.,
Software Engineer     |    Internetworking    |      Spider Park, Stanwell St.,
royd@spider.co.uk     |        Group          |      Edinburgh, EH6 5NG.
From: alan@techlaw.ogi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Books on swimming
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:02:33 GMT
Organization: MARGER JOHNSON McCOLLOM & STOLOWITZ Inc, Portland OR

In article <bryan.714538493@seidel> bryan@seidel.ucsb.edu writes:
> What are some good books on competitive swimming?
> I read James Counsilman's "The science of swimming" 
> (Prentice-Hall, 1968) about 20 years ago when I was
> on a high-school team, and now that my son is 
> starting to swim on a team, I was wondering what a
> good current book is. 

I am reading Swimming Faster by Ernest W. Maglischo.  It is full (472 pages) of  
detail concerning stroke mechanics, training, physiology of training,  
nutrition, etc.  I got it from American Swimming Coaches Association,  
1-800-356-2722.  They also sent a catalog full of vide and audio tapes and  
other books relating to swimming. 

Alan McCollom 

---
Marger Johnson McCollom & Stolowitz PC.	
	Patent Attorneys & Technology Lawyers	
Portland, Oregon
alan@techlaw.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: tomas@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas J. Monica)
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 22:46:02 GMT

In article <183emlINNac3@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@redwood.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>Jpeters@convex.COM (James Peters) writes:
>        "real men don't wear rubber nor draft"
>
>I don't mean to start a flame war, but..
>drafting has been part of competitive swimming probably since
>its inception. For examples look at the lane positioning in
>any pool race. Drafting is also a fine tradition in bicycling
>and sailing, (not to mention many other sports) It is part of
>the strategy involved in a sport, just like pacing oneself or
>planning a breakaway. Without interaction with the other
>competitors one might as well compete on a treadmill.
>
>Jack Dahlgren
>jwd@ced.berkeley.edu

Well on the one hand drafting has been around and some sports have evolved to
include it as a strategy, while others (such as triathalons and duathalons) that
are based on a time trial concept, rather than a race concept (i.e, final time
being independent of conditions, versus focus on dealing directly with the
competitors) have "outlawed" drafting, with many subsequent problems (see any
of the reports on the world dulathon championship in europe this year or the
us triathalon championship this year).

As an aside, the swim is the only part of the triathlon where you can draft.

So the real question is, is open water swimming a race or a time trial? I say
it's a race, and strategy is part of the game.

If we decide it's a time trial then we have an incredible problem with enforce-
ment. It may be a nice idea, but I doubt it will work. In fact, one wonders whyu
triathlons aren't treated as races (would sure help us swimmers, who could get
out early and draft off the fast bikers :-):-):-)).


Hey Julie, what's your opinion (being the rules maven that you are)?

Tom


-- 
Porpise: run, bike, swim, make cookies


"long distance runner, what you holding out for?"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman)
Subject: Re: Contacts?
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 03:51:39 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

In article <136820009@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> m_bell@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mark Bell) writes:
>Do any of you wear contact lenses while you swim?  If so, what type of goggles
>do you use?
>
>Thanks.

Even if you don't wear contacts, I am curious to hear a discussion about goggles

I have always had a a hard time finding something comfortable AND watertight.
Either i found eye-gougers, or leaky plastic. (OK, be kind to me now...)

For the last 8 months, I've been using dolphin goggles. I get them for ~$3
and treat them like they are disposable.. they ARE disposable, since I usually
toss them out after 6-8 weeks. BUT I like the large surface area of the cups
and I haven't lost a contact yet ;-) Also, that's swimming 5 times/week and
cooking my gym bag in the car while I work all day.. I think the heat takes
more out of the goggles than the pool.

Opinions? Any other brands which might make me happy? Prices? Construction?

						Mike Fishman
				(part-time engineer and full-time fisherman)
{									      }
{These are strictly my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer      }
{									      }
{									      }
{ PS: email: fishman@tracker.webo.dg.com .or. mike_fishman@DGC.ceo.dg.com     }

Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: hamilton@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (hamilton russell j)
Subject: Stroke Instruction
Keywords: Stroke Instruction
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:19:24 GMT

  I have a question for any competitive swimmers or coaches (or any former
  competitive swimmers).  I have a 12 year old who has been swimming
  competitively for about 5 years.  The swim club that she trains with 
  has a number of very talented kids (they won state Junior Olympics last
  summer and have been one of the top 3 teams in Illinois over the past
  few years).  Some of the fastest swimmers on the team receive stroke
  instruction from a private coach (who is not associated with the team)
  in addition to the regular (daily) workouts.  I have been told by a 
  number of other parents that my daughter's stroke mechanics have some
  major flaws.  Neither my wife nor I have ever swam competitively, so
  I assume that they are right.  However, I should say that my daughter
  does very well and has placed in the top 10 at the Junior Olympics in
  a few events this summer (she is of average height, weight, and 
  maturity for her age).  Recently my daughter has approached me and asked
  if I'd be willing to pay for her to receive stroke instruction from 
  a private coach (the same one her friends go to).
  The lessons are not too expensive, so that is not a concern of mine.

  My question:  Will taking stroke instruction improve her times?

                Isn't there more than one way to perform a stroke, so that
                the optimum motion is different for each person?

                Would stretching, lifting weights, running, or riding
                a bicycle be a better use of her time?

  Thanks,

 (post if you'd like or send your answers directly to me)

  Russ Hamilton
  hamilton@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu  217-333-2807
From: brucec@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Bruce Cheney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Covert Bailey: Kook or Quack?
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:12:30 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

Have any of you read Covert Bailey's Fit or Fat
books?  As a swimming advocate, these books
really hack me off.

Covert dismisses swimming as a viable exercise,
because he claims that you can't lose fat 
swimming. His reason is that you don't see
skinny whales (yes! really!) but you do
see skinny marathon runners (cross country skiers, etc.)
so swimming just isn't worthwhile.

He also claims you can't sweat in the water.

Well, I didn't notice any 'butterballs' swimming or
playing water polo in the Olympics, .... did you?

But I haven't found much technical literature to
substantiate my point. Have any of you seen any
articles that would refute Bailey's claims?

Bruce Cheney
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:08:41 GMT

>
>
>BTW, if you rember the Seol Olympics, the Austrailian who won the 100, said he
>beat Biondi by getting in his draft for most of the race!
>

So, how big is the usable wake of a swimmer?  In this case the wake
crossed lane markers enough to give somebody an advantage.  How far
behind does it go?

As a bicyclist, I love drafting, I'd almost say it is why I ride.  If
you've ridden in a team time trial, you'd find that the speed and
precision of the riding is exhilarating.  With drafting explicitly
endorsed, you might find team swimming and a corresponding increase
in speeds.

-andy
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Open water swimming - strategy
Date: 4 Sep 1992 11:18:21 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep4.160841.2286@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:

>So, how big is the usable wake of a swimmer?  In this case the wake
>crossed lane markers enough to give somebody an advantage.  How far
>behind does it go?

I found out that the amount of drafting is direct related the body size
and shoulder size of the person you're drafting off.  The larger the
person, the better effect is observed.

Also, I think that there is a strong psychological effect that drafting
does to one.  Many times in workouts I feel without any energy, so I draft
after a faster swimmer for a while to get my self into it.  If you are 
chasing a world swimmer for the last few meters, I am sure that some
untapped energy storage could be found.

Sasha Bucur
From: Thomas.Sullivan@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Random thoughts on the new rules
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:30:48 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.hockey: 27-Aug-92 Random thoughts on the
> new .. Randy Coulman@cs.Usask.C (2137)

> High sticking moved down to the waist:

Can someone fill me in on the details of this?  What happens if you 
wind up for a slapshot, or your follow-through comes up too far?  Why
isn't this still the shoulders?

> Helmets optional rule:

Fine with me.  Play at your own risk.  Personally, I think you'd be crazy
to not wear a helmet, but hey, it's your head.

> 4-on-4 rule:

I like this too.  I'm glad they're going back to it.  More open ice on
offsetting penalties.

> Diving rule:

This is going to be a tough one to call.  It'll only be used on obvious
dives, it is just far too subjective a thing.

--Tom
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Pens lose Ass't Coach
Keywords: McGuire to Hartford
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:14:10 GMT

Heard this on KDKA radio this morning:

Pierre McGuire, assistant coach for the past 2 years, has left the Penguins
and signed with the Hartford Whalers.

McGuire, at one time considered to be a candidate for the now vacant position
of head coach, had asked GM Craig Patrick earlier this month for permission
to interview with other teams.

Meanwhile, the Pens have expressed interest in signing former Harford GM
(and former Pens' head coach and GM) Eddie Johnston as head coach.

Lori
Contact for the Penguins
lli+@cs.cmu.edu