HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco M14/Mini14/SKS
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:24 GMT
Organization: Morning Star Technologies

In article <1992Dec21.153041.15233@engage.pko.dec.com> towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith) writes:
#
#In article <1992Dec17.035225.20733@nuscc.nus.sg>, swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr)) writes...
##I'd like to hear people's views on the relative merits demerits of
##Norinco's M-14 copies, Mini-14 (.223) and SKS. I'm looking for a
##general purpose rifle for foxes, pigs and maybe even self defence---
##eventually. Please address reliability, accuracy, weight, cost (tough
##I know), cost to feed it, parts availability in general.
## 
##Any help GREATLY appreciated.
##perry morrison
#
[M14 Description deleted]
#
# The "bannana bill" stuff aside, Mini-14 is ok I guess if you just gotta have 
#something that shoots 223 and aren't concerned about losing most of your 
#brass. The "raunch rifle" throws the empties about 50 feet.. The biggest 
#drawback to the Mini-14 is its woefully inadequate accuracy.

A brief comment WRT the Mini-14 accuracy:
After taking apart the action and buffing all the parts to a mirror
finish, as well as reducing the trigger pull by 50%, My groups at
50 yards went from 3-4" to 1".  This is probably simply due to 
fixing the '14's AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL, trigger break, and not
due to any improvement in the guns inherent accuracy.  Still not
spectacular accuracy, but OK for what I for what I do with it.

BTW, the internal parts of the action appear to be made without the
slightest ragards for any type of tolerances.  They appeared to be rough 
cast, still having seams and pits from the casting process. other parts 
appear to be made of heavy sheet metal punched out by automated 
equipment.  


#
# The SKS?? Go for it... Definitely one of the best buys on the market. Its 
#accurate enough for hunting, fires a round that's in the 30-30 power range, 
#its a fun plinker, surplus ammo is as cheap as dirt, federal loads an 
#excellent soft point hunting load, the rifle is like a Timex,,, it takes a 
#licking and keeps on ticking.
#
# Out of the 3 you listed the SKS would be my choice.
#
After reading about the SKS, as well as my experiences with the mini 14,
I would probably tend to agree with this.

Chris Miller
chris@MorningStar.Com
From: laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the car
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:55:06 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In some farm magazines/catalogs I've come across a rifle holder (along
with similar holders for western hats and facial tissues) that attaches
to the ceiling of the car.  I think that's a great place for it.

Too bad I have sunroofs.

A simple false ceiling that swings down would be ideal, I think.  That
way the gun(s) wouldn't be visible and could be locked, but would be 
fairly easy to get to (especially with an electric lock connected to
the ignition/alarm system).

--kyler
From: rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cartridges needing identification
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:27 GMT
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics

bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:

#I've got in my hand some cartridges that I'd like to identify.  They're
#sort of different in that they're plastic and .308 caliber.

#They're blue, with a blue plastic bullet.  The bullet seems to have a
#lot bearing surface and is made with the case (connected, not
#inserted).  The powder is a small flake powder at about a 50%

Sounds a lot like the short range training ammo we used in the Norwegian
army for our AG3 (H&K91) autoloaders. Said ammo was quite accurate at
15 m, yet relatively harmless at longer distances. I believe the safe
distance was 100 m, but don't rely on it.
The projectiles are quite deadly at short range, so this is NOT 'blank'
ammo, although often erroneously considered so by many.

Pressures weren't high enough to cycle the gas-operated action of the
H&K91, and the plastic bullets fouled the barrels like you wouldn't believe,
so they were never any popular with our army. I'm even surprised someone
else use it.

regards,

ragnar
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Case Capacity of Mag. vs. Spl.
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Dec23.024048.9044@ncsu.edu> hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#
#  Therefore I don't see any difference resulting from the
#different case lengths, and it would appear that any load
#safe in the Spl. should be equally safe in the Mag.  Am I
#missing something?
#
#--henry schaffer
#

IMHO Henry is not missing anything here.  The OAL maximum has
significance primarily in the physical seating, headspacing and
operations arenas.  The net case capacities do affect powder
performance but the other variables (powder batch, powder age,
primer type & brand, crimp pressures, bullet diameters, bullet
lubricants, seating depth etc.) mask that one variable's effect.
Thoughtful handloading will minimize the effects of variables
other than powder type & weight, primer brand & type, bullet
type & weight so that one can focus on optimization of a load to
meet the shooter's velocity, power factor, trajectory, accuracy,
bullet performance etc. requirements.  The one caveat re: case
capacity is that you shouldn't use too small quantities of slow
powders(handgun H110/296) in large cases because the powder can
explode rather than burn quickly.  Otherwise case capacity and OAL
considerations if within spec. can be discounted for load development.

BDW
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FYI: "Guns that won the West" on A&E
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:55:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)


I would tend to doubt the spray and pray approach was used that
much. I do remember that the .50 sharps was the weapon of choice
for the union sharpshooters and I believe I've read that they 
picked off mainly officers from about the 500-1000 yd range.
I'll be at my fathers house for the holidays and check it out in 
his library.

	Mike
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 1000 YD. BR QUESTION
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:59:47 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <20DEC199213461744@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#I'm not a 1000-yd. benchrester but from the results published by Precision
#Shooting, the .308 Baer seems to be a favorite.  I picked one the issue randomly
#and the May 1992, Original Pennsylvania 1000 yard Benchrest Club result for
#May 1992 shows that the .308 Baer had 6 of the top 9 smallest groups  with
#the 300 Wby taking second place, the 30 Ack 4th, and the 30.378 fifth.  Another
#caliber used is the 30 Ace. This is only one sample result but does show some
#of the calibers used.  It seems strange that only 30 cal is used; I'm not 
#familiar with the rules but the rules may allow only 30 cal.

Any caliber below .50, I believe.

#One would think that with the new Sierra heavy .338 MK that it
would be a contender for 1000 yd. benchrest.

Supposedly, it will be.  High BC and high velocity are the names of
this game.

The original poster aked about action choices for 1000 yard BR.
A standard action (like the Rem 700) could be used if a barrel
block provided the bedding, and if the boltface can be made large
enough to handle the cartridge of choice.  Most shooters seem
to be using custom solid-bottom bolt actions, though.  The big
Hall and Stolle actions should be popular, and I think Howard
Wolfe makes actions of his own design.  A lot of these folks
are shooting 1.350 untapered barrels in the 30-inch range; this
much barrel will bend a standard action with a magazine cut
so much that conventional bedding is difficult.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed." Do you conclude from this that only voters may own books?
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 info & purchase info wanted
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:17:47 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 31 Dec 92 01:25:52 GMT, kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) said:

David> However, I'm not very happy about their workmanship. My AR-15
David> *RATTLES* after only 150 rounds. I think the rattles come from
David> the upper and lower receivers fit. Anyone has suggestions on
David> how to get rid of the rattles?

The easy way is to put some masking tape (1/8") between upper and
lower receiver.  The clean way is an accuracy wedge.  It slips down
into the lower receiver just below the rear takedown pin.  It is made
of rubber and compresses as necessary.  All the rattle will disappear.


-- 
Dion Hollenbeck                        Email: hollen@megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek.uucp!hollen
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 45-70 Govt - .410 compatible?
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:51 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

In looking through 'Shooters Bible' i noticed that Thompson has
a 45-70 Govt. barrel with a choke ... just like the .45 LC barrel.

This makes me wonder:  Is the .45-70 Govt compatible with the .410 bore
shotgun shell?  The length is about right, but the specs. in Cartridges
of the World and my RCBS reloading guide would seem to indicate that
the .410 would be a bit loose in the chamber ...

So what's the scoup?  Do you reload .45-70 brass as shot loads, or
can you shoot the .410 in it?  (Or do I have to get European 32 ga.
shells ;-)

Just wondering...  Since the .45LC/.410 is not legal in the Peoples 
State of California, if the .45-70 can't shoot .410 shells, it 
might be legal ...  

(For those who are wondering:  I have a TC, but would like something
fatter than the .357 bbl. {which I have}.  I can get a .44 Mag, but
the .45 LC {which I really want} is not an option in Ca.  The .45-70 Govt.
is fatter than the .45 LC {.458 vs .452} and could be loaded either
hotter or slower - and it has a 700 gr. bullet available for those
days when I feel like pretending to be high trajectory canon ;-)  
Yes, the .44 Magnum is almost the same as a .45 ... but there is
just something about that extra 2/100 or so inch... )

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pet loads for 223
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:06:56 GMT


 
# I'm getting ready to purchase the powder/primers/ and bullets for my
# .223 caliber reloading exercises.  Since the Winchester 55 grain FMJ 
# is only 3.5 cents per (lots of 1K) it is the likely choice of bullet.
# Does anyone have strong feelings (of course you do) with respect to 
# powder and primer selection?  Since this is for a Colt Sporter
# (20" barrel), I'm interested in what other AR-15 shooters are using.
# 

I've been real happy with 27.0gr of Accurate Arms 2460 behind a 55 gr.
Hornady softpoint with a Federal primer and Federal brass.  I trim the
brass and use a slight crimp.  It's below max but warm.  The AA manual
starts at 25.4 with a 28.2 max.  Major Disclaimer: Get a free manual from
AA phone 615-729-4207, don't trust this by itself.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: ANDY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Andrew T. Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HELP WANTED: Glock 17 and LaserPoint sight mount
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:31:53 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

PLEASE SEND ANY FEEDBACK REGARDING THE FOLLOWING PROBLEM DIRECTLY TO
ANDY@MAINE.EDU.

This past Saturday I purchased a Glock 17 (9x19mm para.).  Today
I purchased a Tasco LaserPoint mount specifically for the Glock 17,
and have a LaserPoint LP2 on order.

I attached the LaserPoint mount today and then tried to chamber
some ammunition.  The weapon would not chamber automatically--some
force had to be applied to the back of the slide to get it to go
home.  I tried 34 rounds (2 full magazines) and none of the rounds
would chamber without assistance (please note that I didn't FIRE any
of these rounds--just ran them through the action).

The problem seemed to be ameliorated (although not eliminated) when
I removed the LaserPoint mount.  After running a few magazines through
the action it seemed to be chambering more or less consistently.  I
thought perhaps this was just a breakin period so I attached the LaserPoint
mount again and the chambering problem recurred.  Looking at the ammunition,
both the brass and the bullets (FMJ) were scored more than I felt reasonable.

Somehow it would seem that the LaserPoint mount is deforming the receiver
and interfering with chambering in some way--though it's not clear
to me that that should cause the ammunition to get banged up.  The LaserPoint
mount is not a tight fit particularly, but the problem does seem to get worse
as I tighten the allen screws holding the mount to the trigger guard.  I'm
at a loss, because keeping these screws lose would seem to mean that the
sight would be jumping all over the place, relatively speaking, from the
recoil of the weapon.

This is my first "modern" auto pistol--past experience being with my
father's 1911 .45ACP and old .22LR Colt Woodsman--and certainly my first
laser sight.  The Glock package says "Perfection," but this is far from
it--The weapon ought to be able to chamber rounds without manual assistance
beyond releasing the slide, and it ought to accept sight mounts made
specifically for it without acting up (though the latter could be a problem
with the Tasco LaserPoint mount).

ANYONE WITH FEEDBACK REGARDING MY PROBLEM, PLEASE SEND MAIL TO ANDY@MAINE.EDU
DIRECTLY, AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!

Andy
From: technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Guns (Beeman is the way to go)
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:17:58 GMT
Organization: Technology News, IIT, Chicago, IL

For plinking purposes, I reccomend the Crosman 357 6/10 shot CO2 pellet
revolver, or the Daisy 45 13 shot CO2 pellet semi-auto repeater. The gas
cylinders at $0.50 each (approx 70 shots per) can get VERY expensive.

	For practice/pleasure/accuracy, I have to reccomend Beeman. I have
2 Beeman products sitting behind me- an R-10 rifle with an RWS 3x scope and
my friends P-1 pistol (1911 style frame) both are spring-air, and have
required nothing but routine maintenance (the R-10 I bought used, the P-1
has been here for nearly 6 years)

	If money is a problem, many Beeman rifles and pistols are avialable
from mail order for low prices, and the company offers a periodic list of
discounted guns (blemished, used, etc) direct from Beeman
-- 
        WARNING: Deliberate or direct inhalation of the contents
                 may be harmful or fatal.

technews@iitmax.iit.edu                           kadokev@harpo.iit.edu
                         My Employer Disagrees.
From: laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:15 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

#Since the safety plunger exerts some friction on the magazine, I imagine
#that its removal would cause the magazines to come out more easily. In
#actual combat, this is a dubious advantage (though I have myself never
#accidentally released the magazine on a P35). Trigger action should also be

Speaking as one who has magazines that accidentally fall out of his PPK/S
when fired, I would rather have a magazine fall out and hit my foot when
accidentally released, instead of stay in the gun _most of the way_
(just enough to make you think you're all set to fire again, but not enough
to strip the top cartridge off).

#marginally improved by removal of the plunger. 

It is.

#I haven't removed the magazine safety from my High Power because I don't
#think that the possible advantages of doing this outweigh the risks. For

I had a tough time with this one, too...but the magazine drop is soooo nice.

#me, the Browning High Power is a combat pistol _par excellence_, and I see
#no reason to remove features that its designers saw fit to incorporate. The

If I remember correctly, the M1911 design didn't have any safeties until
the armed forces required it to make up for their soldiers' carelessness.
(Sketchy memory here - I'd sure appreciate a reminder.)

#trigger action is satisfactory as is--I wouldn't want a lighter action on a
#combat pistol. I shoot as well as I need to with this piece as it comes out
#of the box.

Lighter isn't the point; smoother is.

--kyler
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:17:51 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <BzDD39.D4H@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#In article <1992Dec15.182328.23468@ke4zv.uucp> emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
##
##I don't think you are wrong. You'll either upset the child, or recoil
##in horror from the ghoulish little monster who is cackling with glee
##at the destruction of Mr. Watermelon. One reaction is as likely as
##the other in a young child. I don't think you should introduce a youngster
##to firearms until they *really* understand DEAD. Let them wring some
##chicken's necks, pluck them, and eat them before you teach them about
##guns. Or have them help you gut bambi first. If your kids aren't ready
##for that, they aren't ready for guns.
#
#Are you saying that _I_ am not ready for guns, just because I dislike
#shooting deer and wringing the necks of chickens? Don't get me wrong;
#if I had to hunt to feed my family, I'd be the best damned hunter you 
#ever saw, and if someone were threatening me or my loved ones, I'd plug
#him faster than you can say jackrabbit. HOWEVER, I intensely dislike
#killing things; that's why I don't hunt much. (Quail don't count. It's
#positively unAmerican (or un-Oklahoman) to not hunt quail :-)

The kid doesn't have to hunt to understand dead, though that's one
good way of showing the power and finality of guns. But without a
clear understanding that dead is forever, something most small
children *don't* grasp, any demonstration of a gun's powers of
destruction may make them more attractive to the child as playthings
rather than teaching the desired lesson. Children are bloody minded
little animals at best who are usually attracted to things that
smash, cut, burn, or otherwise destroy things. If you don't believe
me, give a small child a hammer and watch him bash everything in
sight while cackling with glee.

Gary
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10 mm autopistols
Date: 2 Jan 93 18:44:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) says:

#I keep hearing vaguely worded criticisms of the 10mm cartridge, but I
#can never get any specifics.  I understand that the FBI dumped the
#10 after having problems.  Were these problems:
#     1)  feed problems (possibly caused by FBI-required modifications
#     2)  overpressure problems causing damage to the pistols
#     3)  control problems caused by recoil and/or blast
#????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
#Does anyone know the real story?

      4)  quality problems caused by insisting on S&W as a manufacturer.

Jim Del Vecchio

BTW, there is nothing about 10mm above that isn't also true about
.40.  10mm is just a .40 with the potential to go hotter.

I wonder why the FBI doesn't just let their agents pick their
own guns, like some police departments do.
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm cheapo car backup
Date: 27 Dec 92 12:34:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


(NOTE TO MODERATOR:  COULD YOU KILL MY LAST POST WITH THIS HEADER?
I HAD A BIZARE EDITING ERROR AND WOULD LIKE TO REPLACE IT WITH
THIS POST.  THANKS.  JIM)


In a previous article, bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) says:

#This gun (A-90 .45 in my case) is very accurate and reliable.  It can do
#tiny (~1") groups 25 yds.   I don't know what else you could be looking for.
       ^^^

	I must have been kind of delerious last night.	8-)

	Looking at my targets, I have some one hole five shot groups at 
	33 ft, and some one hole groups with a sloppy extra hole or two 
	at farther distances (my shaking hands).   I've handed it to better
	shooters to watch them do one hole groups at 33 or 50 ft.  It always
	shoots where I point, and has always made tiny groups when rested

	Last year I sent it in no charge to make it shoot dead on at
	25 yrds	with Rem 230 gr FMJ*.  It came back with a one hole group
	test target with handwritten "from rest, 25 yds, Rem 230 gr ball",
	and the guy I always talk to at Interarms assured me that it was
	legit and he did it personally.   

(* Now 100% on the nose w 230 gr at 25 yds. 
There are four interchangable rear sight blades.   I just put in 
a taller one for 185 and 200 gr, but I haven't  
tried it yet.  The blades are inexpensive ($4) and can be ground down to
shoot lower.)

	Jim Del Vecchio
From: raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What does SKS mean?
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:47 GMT

#Does anyone know the meaning of the SKS designation of the SKS model 56?

#For instance; the AK of AK-47 is Avtomat Kalashnikova or 1947...

People's Republic of China, according to most sources, refers SKS
as Type 56 Carbine.

BTW I remember read a Chinese training manual that refers SKS as
Type 54 and Type 56 rifle and AK-47 as Type 56 carbine. However
none of the Western sources I read confirm this and I don't have
that manual, I can't give any substantiation.

54 or 56 are the years related to production or adoption etc. in
PRC.

That may be PRC nationals in rec.gun who know, but I doubt they would
tell lest they get the "big hat" of foreign spy.
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: +P+ Ammunition
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:31 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> I keep hearing the +P and +P+ ammunition will eventually harm by
-> handguns.  I'd like to use the 125 grain 9mm CorBon ammo in my
...
-> Has anyone out there got a opinion based on actual use of +P or +P+

 Nope, but I figure if you can afford enough +P+ commercial ammo to
damage the gun, you can afford a new gun when that happens.
From: dege@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu (Dege Jeffrey Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Source for rifle sling
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:05:25 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota


   I've inherited a VZ-24, which was a licensed copy of the Mauser kar. 98.
As I received it, it had a military-style sling (complete with elbow loop)
that I believe was original equipment.  It wasn't in the best of condition.
50 years in the attic left it badly dry-rotted, and it disintegrated while
I was trying to clean it.
 
   I'd like to replace it with something as authentic as possible.  I've
stopped by the local gun shops, and they have some that are similar, but
they have Western-style tooling in them, and somehow I don't think that
matches a middle-european weapon.
 
   Does anybody know of a good source for this sort of thing?


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