HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:49:21 GMT
Reply-To: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <68-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP>, ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
> many of us have kids...  maybe a pagan kids playgroup?
>
>                                                -ailsa

Ailsa, is ailsa@wonky.uucp the best address to use to e-mail to you? My mailer
doesn't like it at all.

Anycase, my wife and I would love to have a pagan kids playgroup. Let's start
one! Hmmm... whatever happened to the party idea? I think if someone feels
generous enough to offer a place and time, people would come (we live in
Lowell, so it'd be a drive for everybody. Otherwise, we'd offer our house)!

--
- Richard F. Man (man@labrea.zko.dec.com)
"Small Rovers, Big Dreams"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:08:39 GMT


Keep me informed, Ailsa!

If I can fit it into my ridiculous schedule somehow with a shoehorn, I'd
like to join in. 

Marty



=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: re: peace symbol
Reply-To: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:31:20 GMT

This discussion on the peace symbol is getting rather silly - in any case its
historical origins in the CND is well documented. If I may put in my two cents
worth, the peace symbol can be seen as the rune Elhaz, inverted within a    
circle. Elhaz is often known as the life rune, and Elhaz inverted as the death
rune. So everybody using the peace symbol is symbolically sending out messages
of death - but then, this might have been appropriate for a group opposed to
nuclear annihilation! Ain't symbolism fun?  --David
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: GOD
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:49:08 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1k3q16INNl9s@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu () writes:
>In article <728022574.0@iphase.fidonet.org>, Richard.Willis@iphase.fidonet.org
>(Richard Willis) said:
>
>>               There is a true god. Satan is real. Follow him and you will go
>>to hell. Follow Jesus and inherite eternal life. Any questions?

*ignoring certain replies....

>It is very hard to be certain that this is in fact true, since some of
>the recorded prophesies of Jesus did *not* come true, and some of his
>recorded statements are in logical contradiction with one another, and
>thus *cannot* all be true at once. 

It's good to see someone embracing the law of noncontradiction.  I am curious
what contradictions in the "sayings" of Jesus do you know as contradictory? 
There are contradictions between the synoptics, but what precise sayings are
in your opinion?

Also, if there are sayings of Jesus that are contradictory then why does that
mean there is not one true God?  I don't see the connection.  Perhaps you
mean, "follow Jesus and only Jesus and you will inherit eternal life" becomes
difficult to accept?

>The plain sense of Mark 13:30 is
>that the end of the world will happen before the last person alive in
>Jesus' day has died -- but it was not so.  There is an irreconcilable
>logical contradiction between plain sense of the saying of Jesus
>recorded in Matthew 12:30 = Luke 11:23 (He that is not with me is
>against me) and Mark 9:40 (For he that is not against us is on our
>part).  Any questions?  -- Robert

Yes.  Is it not possible that the humanity of Jesus really believed that the
world would end in his generation?

Repost the Mark 9:40 with verse 39 and 41 and your tranlated version.  There
are some interesting diffences in the synoptics and I can't remember if this
one really is.

====================================          
Ted Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)
University of Georgia, Athens
UCNS/Institute of Higher Ed.
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:48:40 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcink.bbn.com

In article <68-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>>
>katy used to be...  the move seems to have altered her temperment a
>bit...  she'll settle though.  (i hope.)  but it's nice to know that so
>many of us have kids...  maybe a pagan kids playgroup?

YES, YES, YES!!!!

(Gee, it seems to me that I've posted that same sentance at least twice
now on this thread.  If it's a sentance.)

But I think it would be great to have our kids growing up with a little
bit of pagan companionship.  Or even some pagan "sunday school."  (I
say this knowing that Shirley, at least, will probably hate that idea.)

Sort of off topic, but my day care provider has a Virgin Mary thingie
on her wall.  Alice was trying to grab it and my daycare-er picked her
up and said "See, this is the Goddess."  She had just asked me to explain
my beliefs because she tries to make everyone feel comfortable during
Christmas season.  It was great to know that she had understood that
well, and was open-minded enough to see the connection between her
religion and mine.

Dawn
-- 
"You have this adorable and misguided notion that death is something really
radical and cool but I still can't help being attracted to your fresh-faced
uncompromised tatoo-ed rebel stance and god damn, I'd like to help you
sing your tune."  "Folk Song..." by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Subject: Re: Chinese Religion
Keywords: Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Confucius
Reply-To: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:59:43 GMT


In article <1993Jan26.031411.20815@csus.edu>, altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
> Please note also my reply to Corun in a previous post. As I stated, my 
> opinion of Hoff's books is that they are not particularly scholarly, nor do
> I think Hoff intends them as such. If they provide a philosophy you like,
> then by all means read, enjoy and follow. They are not bad books, full of
> problems. I enjoyed The Tao of Pooh. Just didn't care for the preachiness 
> of The Te of Piglet, nor did I think Hoff understood the concept of Te the
> way a Chinese might.

I AM Chinese, born and raised in Hong Kong. "Te" is a difficult concept to
grasp, and the nowaday meaning of "virtue" has more Confuician influence 
than I like. As I have commented to my wife (who is a Pagan) many times, it is
amazing how much cultural conditioning I got when I was growing up - I read
children stories / fables that are Taoist in origin. To me, the concept of
Tao is natural, but I think it would be more difficult for me if I haven't
grown up immersed in it.

The problem I have with scholarly text on Taoism (of which I have plenty, in
English and Chinese) is that they are dry and not accessible to common people. 
Come now, how many people think, "Oh Taoism, it's about yin-yang right?" Taoism
is about life and nature, it should be enjoyable to learn / read.

> As to scholarly texts, if you are interested in what Taoism IS, I don't 
> think you'll ever find an answer. But if you are interested in the state-
> of-the-art of our knowledge of historical philosophical and religious 
> Taoist belief and practice, then don't go to a pop book, go to a recognized
> scholar. It may not fit into what you believe is Taoism, but then you have
> the choice of inventing your own beliefs or following the masters. There is
> no judgement or right or wrong about this. It simply means that if you are
> interested in accuracy, then read an accurate source, if not, then read
> Hoff or Stephen Mitchell. No sixteen ton weight will fall on your head.
> 
> Of course, you might get hit with a load of foam rubber bricks... :-)

The best teacher in Taoism is around you, not some recluses in the High 
Mountains (or have you forgotten Chuang-Tzu ;-) ). If only Chuang-Tzu has
taken his own advice, I'd like him even better ;-).

--
- Richard F. Man (man@labrea.zko.dec.com)
"Small Rovers, Big Dreams"
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Catalogs! Lots of Catalogs! (long)
Summary: Shameless plug, vicious slam
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:29:44 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


> 
>   Eye of the Day  -Prsl.Chk,COD
>4104 24th St.#196
>San Francisco, CA. 94114
>(800) 433-7313 cost:free
> 
>Calls itself a metaphysical five and dime. Oils, incense, candles, herbs,
>resins, salts, talismans, jewelry, shamanic tools, Tarot decks, musical
>instruments, pouches. Fair prices.

	This is a great store (the store is on filmore) and a wonderful 
catalog. Dave and Janis are some of the greatest people to deal with!! Nothing 
but praise (and not at all faint) for these fine people and their products. All 
herbs are organic, no risk of finding a pestacide in your brew! Their triple 
amber incense is splendiferous!


	One that wasn't added was......

		Touchstone
		### Page st.
		San Francisco, CA

	No, I don't have the entire address and you don't want it either! 
Touchstone is a tourist trap that sells crappy product. I have heard that there 
is a good jeweler working there, but my experiences and those of my circlemates 
and tribe have been nothing but negative. I was sold a piece of asurite 
malachite for $30 that turned out to be a piece of plastic with a glaze over 
it. They refused to stand by it. A friend had a ear-ring fixed there. They 
cracked the amythist point and chipped the end off. They refused to stand by 
their work or even refund the money. If I where you I'd avoid them like the 
plague.


	Words of advice from your friendly neighborhood...

					- Ashley
From: dido@coli.uni-sb.de (Doris Diedrich)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Catalogs! Lots of Catalogs! (long)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:26:01 +0100
Organization: Computational Linguistics Dept., U Saarbruecken
NNTP-Posting-Host: coli-gate.coli.uni-sb.de

rlove@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Rebecca M. Love) writes:

>   I missed this posting....(darn darn darn darn)  :)  I was waiting for
>a long time to see it, and out news reader gobbled it up...:( :(

>   Could someone send me their copy?  Pretty please??

>Blessed be,

>Becky
 ME TOO PLEASE !! 
 Greetings
  Doris
From: radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com (T.O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:00:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Originator: radzy@icsib62

(I'm having trouble with my new machine.  Posted this a little
while ago, but it doesn't seem to have come across, so I'm re-posting
from the other machine.  Apologies.)

ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>>  any more susan cooper pagans out there?  i was always bummed that i
>>  am in no wise Welsh.

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> I loved her books too.  I can't wait till the baby is old enough to
> read them.

I wouldn't call myself a "Susan Cooper Pagan", but I certainly did
love her books.  (BTW Ailsa: What is "aAA" in "imnaAAsho"?)  Even
if we aren't Welsh, we can try to be Welsh in spirit.

> Rumor has it that she lives in Boston and is involved with the Christmas
> Revels (a pagan inspired Solstice celebration that they do every year
> at Sanders Theater.)

Ailsa's in Boston, and if that isn't enough, Susan Cooper's there, too.
I WANNA GO TO BOSTON!

Bear Blessings!

			-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
	T. O. Radzykewycz		|  An it harm none,
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|  do as ye will.
					|
	radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com       |
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:21:21 GMT

In article <llrktlINNm3s@news.bbn.com>, dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>
> In article <1993Jan20.174755.8847@e2big.mko.dec.com> man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man) writes:
>>
>>Oh yes, the singing group Mother Tongue is excellent. The latest tape
>>Fire Dance is awesome (even our two year old, keep saying "play Fire Dance")
>>when we ask what she likes to hear.
>
> Hey, this makes you the third Boston area alt.paganer with a two year
> old!  (Actually, mine is 1 1/2, but close enough.)  Now I'm really looking
> forward to a get together.  (Do I hear other readers saying "oh no,
> anything but three two year olds.")
>
well, katy is six, so there's ONE kid who isn;t two...  but she likes to
play with younger kids, so it could work...

so, which weekend?  how soon shall we shoot for?  i've had one person
volunteer his house so far for a gathering.  how many people are
interested?

                                                -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                           ailsa@wonky.uucp
 LIfe moves so mysterious with its cute little spins        ________
 And it's everyone's koan and door to get in        Silence \      / Action
 It's old human nature, it's cold or it's hot          =     \    /    =
 I think of you often, I like you a lot              Death    \  /    Life
 But if it's snowin' in Brooklyn                               \/
 I'd say snow is what we got.           -Ferron
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mortoj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Robert Morton)
Subject: Re: contradiction?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:37:26 GMT

In article <C1JCqn.7A6@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>2.who soever is not against us is with us
>		  ^^^^^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^
>1.who soever is not with us is against us
>		  ^^^^^^^^^   ^^^^^^^^^^
>so both say the same thing. There are contradictions in the new testament
>us one. It takes the weight out of an argument if your 'exsample' is false.
>
>Elf-Kin

Sigh...  Assume, for simplicity's sake, that you have 1/3 of a group for you,
1/3 of a group against you, and the other 1/3 of that same group has not stated
which side they are for.  It follows that one of the two statements you are
discussing must take precedence over the other.  That one group is not against
you.  Therefore it is with you.  But that 1/3 group has not said that it is 
with you, so by the other statement it is against you.  

Therefore, which statement takes precedence.  If it has been stated somewhere
that one does take precedence, then there is no problem.  However, if it has
not been stated then these terms create a paradox, since the remaining 1/3 
cannot be both for and against you at the same time.  Understand?  

I do suspect, however, that the original poster could have found a better 
paradox, since it took me several readings to understand the paradox implied.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "For every darkness there is a light, for every dusk, a dawn."
                                                     --uncertain
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: traite@dante.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the next generation...?
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:51:08 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Statistical & Data Analysis Center

In article <kre-210193205220@b61693.student.cwru.edu> kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R. Elflein) writes:
>In reading some of these articles and also from my own mind :) I have come
>across an issue that i would like some input on. When I get married, my
>wife will most likely not be a Wiccan..(who knows though, mebbe she will be
>:) anyways, whether she is or not, what do you think about what to do when
>the children come?

I am pagan and my husband is an atheist.  We have agreed that it is
important that our daughter (2 years old) be allowed to choose her 
own path.  We want to expose her to as many religions /philosphies as
possible so that she he will be able to choose (or not choose) a path.
To me, raising a child who  has *ethical* values and who can think for
herself is of paramount importance. I feel that those values do not
necessarily  need to be tied to particular religion. (Of course if she
adopts values  similar to mine, she will probably *not*
choose a judeo-christian path!)

>be left to discover religion for (his)(her)self..with some guidance and a
>lot of support from the parents :) What do you think?
>
>Keith
>
I found my religion after a long search.  It's right for me.  I cannot
say that it will necessarily be right for my child(ren). 

(I guess that's  my Unitarian backgound coming through. :) )

Blessings.
___
Shirley Traite (traite@sdac.harvard.edu) |I only speak for myself.
Statistical Programmer                   |
SDAC/Biostatistics Dept.                 |
Harvard Sch. of Public Health            |

<> IT IS A VIRTUE TO HAVE AN OPEN AND INQUISITIVE MIND. <>
From: alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Subscriptions
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 02:12:30 PST
Organization: Tweek-Com Systems BBS, Moraga, CA (510) 631-0615

kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R. Elflein) writes:

> I was wondering if anyone would like to recommend a good pagan, or wiccan
> even, subscription. I have sent for sample copies of "Circle Network News"
> and "Converging Paths" but i haven't seen them. Are there any others you
> recommend i try?
> 
> Keith
> 
> "Double double, toil and trouble...fire burn and cauldron bubble!" -
> *hahaha* don't 'ya love it! :)

Green Egg is $4.95 per issue US. Subscriptions $13 per year US,
$18 Canada [and also I believe US first class, in an envelope],
$24 per year trans- Atlantic [air], $26 per year trans-Pacific
air. Address: Green Egg, P.O. Box 1542, Ukiah, CA 95482 USA.
 
THE BELTANE PAPERS is back! A journal of Women's Mysteries, with
the most fantastic calendrical ifo from many cultures. 60pp
magazine, published twice a year. Women's wisdom, scholarly
articles, myth, ritual, dreams, poetry, women's history, music,
letters, reviews, calendars, herbs. Write: THE BELTANE PAPERS,
1333 Lincoln St. #240, Bellingham, WA 98226 (2x/yr./$13, 2 yrs.
$21, sample $7)

and could someone (preferably a current subscriber) post an address
and subscription info for Circle Network News?
Blessed Be,
A.Lizard

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.Lizard Internet Addresses:
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM        (preferred)
[path]!pacbell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above)
alizard@gentoo.com (backup)
PGP2.0 public key available on request.
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Magic Shop
Date: 28 Jan 1993 10:13:04 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1070578.2B667A31@cmhgate.fidonet.org> A.j..Drew@f520.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (A.j. Drew) writes:
>For the purpose of discussion, nothing in this post is to be considered
>slight of hand.  Please feel free to add the j, k, or what ever other
>distinction you feel necessary.
>
>I am considering opening a Magic Shop to be called City Witch.  The idea
>is to offer a Magic Convienance store for city dwelling Witchs.  I would
>like sudjestions of items to carry.  Think of things friends have come
>to you for, things you get from friends, ect...  Remember, there are A
>LOT of sole practicioners who don't have friends or covens to turn to
>for supplies.

This brings up an interesting thought along the lines of the fable of the
city mouse and the country mouse. The Craft is usually portrayed as being
very close to nature. Circles in the woods, fresh herb and flowers for the
altar, etc. How does a witch confined to the city a) cope with being so
removed from nature, and b) compensate for it? Are there "things" a city
witch uses that a country witch doesn't for their rituals? Are there actions
that a city witch would take to accomplish something that a country witch
would do differently? And vice versa?

I can see where a line could be drawn (and I don't know if it already has
been) between the Nature Witch(tm) and the Techno Witch(tm). Any comments?

Bb,
Corun the curious



-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |     What appears to be coming at you,
  Dark Horde by birth  |           is coming from you.
    Moritu by choice   |			J. Flanders
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: radzy's address
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:21:50 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> radzy, I notice you're posting froma new machine.  Can I still send you
> mail at the old one?
> 
> luv,
> Janis

Hi Janis (and everyone else)

Yup, I still get mail here at school, and at the new machine at
home.  I thought those posts hadn't gotten out -- I haven't seen
them here at school yet!  Sorry for the duplicates I sent from
school (here), if there are any.

Janis: I've been meaning to give you a phone call -- when would
be a good time?  (And I *still* haven't re-sent that rune stuff
that was returned.  Sigh.)

Bear Blessings!

			-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: pechever@phakt.usc.edu (The Heckler)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: regarding witchburning in computer games
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:13:23 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <mLH1XB3w165w@tweekco.uucp> alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard) writes:
[red sonja's squealing deleted]
>IF the game is as described, it doesn't sound any more offensive than
>the games based on playing the role of a Nazi concentration camp
>commander killing Jews in a death camp.

(prefatory note: i can't tell if a.liz is being sarcastic or not...i don't find
his example particularly offensive)
hmm...the phrase 'it's just a game' and the question 'aren't we taking 
ourselves a bit too seriously here?' come to mind.
time someone reposted the first law of virtual reality.
okay, let's all say it together:
	"thou shalt not equate bit-mapped text with reality"
better now?

			the heckler
-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Come, let us retract the foreskin of misconception and apply the wire
		brush of enlightenment."   --Geoff Miller  
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick