HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iane@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Ian Ellis)
Subject: tcp/ip and WANB
Summary: Does anyone know of a product, public domain or otherwise, which w
Keywords: tcp/ip wang
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:27:08 GMT

Does anyone know of a product, public domain or otherwise, which will
provide tcp/ip facilities on a WANG 8000 series?

We have a WANG 7370 with an internal LAN controller and are looking for
alternative products to those supplied by WANG

Thanks


Ian Ellis
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: HELP: Slip connection between PC and DECstation
From: ejones@desire.wright.edu
Date: 26 Jul 92 16:35:28 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

I would like to be able to run SLIP between a pc at home and our DECstation
5000 at school. I need to dial up to a terminal server and connect to our
machine over LAT. I have set up the DECtstation end correctly. (I think) But,
how do I connect to it from the PC? I tired using procomm to dial the modem
and connct to our machine. Then, I exit procomm without hanging up the line.
Then, I run the slip packet driver SLIP8250 and the run CUTCP. But, how
does cutcp know that I am connected to the machine? There must be something
I am missing out on. What would be the best way to accomplish what I am 
looking for? Your help is greatly needed/appreciated.
	
	Ed Jones
	Wright State University
	Dept. of Psychology
	ejones@desire.wright.edu
From: jessea@homecare.com (Jesse W. Asher)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Finding out what machines are on a network.
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:41:11 GMT
Organization: G.O.D Inc.

I'm just starting to program some tcp/ip and I have a question
(actually two).  I once had a program that would go out and tell you
what machines were talking on the network and would give you their
hostnames.  Sort of like ping for the entire network.  My first
question is how is this done?  I'd like to write my own version (just
as an exercise) and I figured it wouldn't be very hard to do.  My
second question is does anyone know where I can get the above program?
I'd like to get it to see how that particular programmer implemented it.
-- 
      Jesse W. Asher                                   Phone: (901)762-6000
                         Varco-Pruden Buildings
	      6000 Poplar Ave., Suite 400, Memphis, TN  38119
 Internet: jessea@homecare.COM                 UUCP: ...!banana!homecare!jessea
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: andr@elvis.msk.su (Andrei Arkhipov)
Subject: SLIP connection between Sun and PC/ICS Unix
Organization: ELVIS Corp.
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 19:37:52 GMT

Hi.

Did anybody do SLIP connection between Sun SPARCstation under SunOS 4.1.1 and
PC under ISC?

What I need to know is what software I need on both sides, installation and 
connection procedure (maybe some special points only).

Thank you in advance,
             Andrei.
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: Re: Firewall usage (was: Re: ping works, but ftp/telnet get "no route)
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:07:21 GMT

In article <151os4INNm3n@agate.berkeley.edu> cliff@garnet.berkeley.edu (Cliff Frost) writes:
>The follow on point (which ji referred to), is that IP (and UDP/TCP and
>the support infrastructure) was designed for end-to-end connectivity, so
>firewalls and mail relays break the architectural model.  It's pretty hard
>to argue with this also.

I'll argue with it. Firewalls don't have to be designed to prohibit
all forms of end to end connectivity; good firewalls will allow you to
do things like set up outgoing TCP/IP links and not incoming ones. Its
thus possible to set up reasonable end to end communication for
certain services without opening yourself up too badly to the outside
world. Yeah, its possible to shanghai existing connections, but the
damage the bad guy can do is limited for most services.

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com
--
		  Just say "NO!" to death and taxes.
			 Extropian and Proud.
From: ahalim@ics.uci.edu
Subject: FTP question
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:51:55 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip


Is it possible to execute remote program on the other side of a ftp
session? (like 'rsh' inside ftp)

thanks
/aha

Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 19:05:19 CET
From: Karl Keyte <KKEYTE@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: SMTP mail


The SMTP has recently been removed at our site because of its well-known
security hole.

Does anyone have a mail protocol (IP based) which allows you to integrate
many different systems?  We have Suns, PCs, VAXes, IBM mainframes, all
running TCP/IP.

Any info. (directly to me: KKEYTE@ESOC.BITNET) would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Karl
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver)
Subject: Re: ping works, but ftp/telnet get "no route to host"
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:14:36 GMT

In article <BrsM1C.36v@cs.columbia.edu>, ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes:
> ....
> The site you are trying to ping is running a firewall gateway, because
> they're too lazy to beef up their host security and are relying on the
> firewall to protect themselves against external attacks....


That you're return address is at a university is somehow unsurprising.


Many of us out here in the commercial world have thousands of machines
on corporate networks with minimum internal, inter-machine security.

Using firewalls allows us to do the jobs we're paid to do without
spending so much time fiddling with "security," whether choosing
passwords, typing them, or using FTP instead of rcp (.rhosts are
unsafe, remember?).  It is true that parts of the commercial world do
not mind wasting high salaries and far greater "lost opportunity
costs" to have all machines on their networks "secure."  As far as I
know, all such commercial organizations are not what anyone would call
nimble or industry leading.  (Yes, before everyone asserts their
Military Industrial employer is different, I'm sure there must be at
least one exception.)

Firewalls are like guards at the front desk instead of patroling the
halls.  Some places have guards in the halls, rules about leaving
papers on your desk, and so forth, but many of us decline to work in
such places.

It is nicest to not have any guards, just as it is nicest to not worry
about locking your door.  Unfortunately, zillions of tiny minds,
frequently jejune university students, have proven that the Internet is
too much like a big city to do without locks.

To have someone at a big city university suggest that we lock our
bedrooms instead of our front doors is either amusing or offensive.


Vernon Schryver,  vjs@sgi.com
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: backman@ftp.com  (Larry Backman)
Subject: Re: Help wanted: Interlan Ethernet drivers
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:38:20

In article <242@warlord.UUCP> mhw@warlord.UUCP (Michael H. Warfield) writes:

 >> >As I said, still no unix.  The only un-explored avenue was that one of
 >> >the NCM people said (or implied, or atleast I inferred) that the NP600
 >> >might work in NI6510 (?) mode, as a dumb card.  That should not need
 >> >bus mastering, so I plan to check it out.  

The NP600A is an intelligent card with a 80186 CPU and a 85286 Ethernet chip.
To talk to the net you need the 586.  Your host CPU cannot reach that 586.
The onboard 186 can make the 586 jump through hoops provided some code to drive
the 186 is downloaded into the on-board RAM.  the host talks to the card
through a rather odd combination of program IO, shared memory, and DMA.

You can make a NP600A act as a "dumb" card; the Netware server driver did that.
However it has a simple dispatch loop down on the card that moves stuff
back and forth between the chip and the host.  You also need a host-side
driver to talk to the board just the right way...

The software you are looking at has an old (1982-3'ish) OS called Comet
which is used to drive a protocol stack.  This allowed a complete
protocol stack to be shoved into the boards RAM and run on the 186 as opposed
to on the host.  As the 186 runs at 8 Mhertz; performance of this stack
will always be an issue.

You need 2-3 spec's out of Racal-Datacomm; the NP600 hardware manual; 
the NCX spec which describes the on-board OS, and the spec. which explains
how to write an NP600 driver.


Larry Backman
FTP Software

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: Gary White <gwhite@arco.com>
Subject: Re: satellite link file transfers
Organization: ARCO
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:36:21 GMT

Well, it has turned out that we had two problems.  First, 
some bridge and  router setup problems.  Secondly, the buffer 
size for TCP/IP on the RS/6000 was too low by default.  RS/6000's 
have a command "no" for network options that allows the 
"tcp_sendspace" and "tcp_recvspace" settings to be adjusted;  
changing from the default 16K to 56K improved performance
from 25KBytes/s to 70KB/s.

There are still some things to check for better performance, 
but this is a big step up from yesterday's 5KB/s.

Thanks to all who wrote in!!!

-Gary
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: SMTP mail
Organization: Solbourne, User Interface Group
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:30:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.175238.20719@mmm.serc.3m.com> ccg@tcdsp1.mmm.com
("Charles Ganzhorn") writes:
>Secondly, I fail to see why forgery is not considered a breach of
>security.

It all hinges on how you define security.  It is an authentication
issue, not a security one, in my opinion.

>Next, saying that mail doesn't require privacy is just caving in to
>the fact that I can't get it with SMTP.

I never said that mail doesn't require privacy.  I just said that it
was easy to forge and that you shouldn't expect e-mail to be private.

>A good mail system should include authentication, privacy, arbitrary file 
>attachments, acknowledgement, directory look-ups, and mailing lists just to 
>name a few features.

All of these features can be had with the underlying SMTP transport.
You get authentiation and some privacy from PEM.  You can attach
arbitrary files with things like MIME or mailtool.  Acknowledgement
has been hacked into sendmail, even though there are many serious
"security" problems with it.  The VRFY and EXPN commands in the SMTP
can be used for directory lookup.  There are tons of mailing lists out
there, so that point is easy.

Warner
-- 
Warner Losh		imp@Solbourne.COM
Interview Horror Story #882: "It's pretty informal around here.
Thursdays are clothing optional.."
From: george@henson.cc.wwu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit
Subject: This group still active?
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:44:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Jul31.184421.10495
Organization: Western Washington University

The Technician has posted to this group a number of times and has never seen
his own (or any other) post reflected back to this site. What gives? Sorry
if any moderator woes have ensued.

Best regards, as always, G.


-- 
--
*****************************************************************************
*           Who *cares* about opinions, I deny ever having one.             *
************* George Hartnell, Western Washington University ****************
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.iso
From: nectar@world.std.com (Jacques A Vidrine)
Subject: Token Ring and FDDI on same ring?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:11:38 GMT

Simple question, but I don't expect a simple answer.

Can FDDI and Token Ring be run on the same ring?

My organization has in place a 16Mbps Token Ring network using the
IBM Cabling System with optical fiber.  It is our goal to move to
FDDI in the future.  Thus the question.


-- 
Jacques A. Vidrine 		|	What did the Zen Buddhist	
nectar@world.std.com		|	say to the hot dog vendor?
				|	"Make me one with everything."
Request my PGP public key	|
From: d1wzm@dtek.chalmers.se (Kristian Wiklund)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
Subject: NMEA 0183 - specifications wanted
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:22:49 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

Could anyone pls enlighten me about the specifications
for the NMEA 0183 prot. used with satellite navigators, compasses etc?

greetings,
Kristian Wiklund
d1wzm@dtek.chalmers.se

--
------------------------------------------------------
This is a stupid signature.
From: tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
Subject: Any info on "HL7"?
Keywords: HL7, MIB, Hospital Systems
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:14:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: BRS Software Products, Latham NY

Does anyone out there in net-land have any pointers to information regarding
a protocol called "HL7", or something called the "Medical Information Bus"
standard?  These are buzz-words in the medical community for communicating
with patient monitor equipment and the like in a hospital setting.

Any details or pointers at all would be appreciated.

			-- Tim
-- 
  Timothy G. Northrup                     | JRS Clinical Technologies, Inc.
 -----------------------------------------| RD 2 Box 49, Rock Road
  ...!rutgers!brspyr1!jrsalb1!tim         | Berne, NY  12023-9607
   "I believe the word you are looking for is ... AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" - Penguin
From: salehi@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Masoud Salehi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
Subject: Zmodem problem on Unicom 3d
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:01:08 GMT
Distribution: comp.protocols.msc
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University

I even do not know if this is the right newsgroup to post this problem. 

I have been trying uncom 3d, for communication under windows3.1. In
file transfer from a SUN sparcstation in my workplace, I have no problem
as long as I use Kermit. But if I try zmodem, and the file is long, usually 
I receive error messages during the transmission and the transmission breaks 
down.

I have no problem in using zmodem if I use the terminal window that comes
with windows 3.1, but the ease of use of unicom and its versatility
keeps me trying to solve the problem.

Please email me your hints and solutions

--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Masoud Salehi                            Tel.:(617)437-2446
Department of Electrical Engineering     Fax.:(617)437-4189
Northeastern University                  Email:salehi@omid.coe.northeastern.edu
Boston, MA 02115
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: jstone@netcom.com (Jeffrey Stone)
Subject: ST-II ?
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:38:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: ST-II, fiber optic connectors

Can anyone give me a pointer to information about a protocol or standard
called "ST-II"?

I believe it has something to do with fiber optics - perhaps fiber
optic connectors.

Thanks,
Jeff Stone
jstone@netcom.com



-- 

Jeffrey Stone		jstone@netcom.com		415.324.0443

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: fblau@well.sf.ca.us (Frank Blau)
Subject: EDI and ANSI X12
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:17:16 GMT


Couldn't find where else to post this one... any suggestions would
be most appreciated!

Looking for info on EDI standards in the healthcare industry. I know that
there is quite abit of work being done, esp. something called HCIN...

any help?
-- 
*********************************************************
Frank J. Blau     (203)761-7291       fblau@well.sf.ca.us
        "'cause cheap is how I feel"
        "Joe Bob says check it out!"
Xref: sparky comp.protocols.misc:591 comp.protocols.ibm:625 comp.protocols.tcp-ip:3789
From: peter@nuustak.csir.co.za (Peter Greenwood)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc,comp.protocols.ibm,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: 3270 terminal access to a UNIX application
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:50:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: nuustak.1992Jul22.205051.3575
Organization: CSIR

I want to connect a 3270-type terminal to a UNIX computer running an
application that is usually accessed via a VT100-type terminal.  In fact, 
I need to do this for up to 150 simultaneous sessions.

At the moment I'm achieving this by running some software on an MVS 
mainframe which does SNA to TCP/IP conversion.  So an SNA user logs
on to the mainframe, selects the TCP application, and then telnets to
the UNIX host.

In effect, I'm using an expensive mainframe as a protocol convertor.  There
must be a better, cheaper way.  What's the best way of giving an SNA user
access to a UNIX application?  Is it possible to do this without using the
mainframe at all?


Peter Greenwood
CSIR                                peter@dobs.csir.co.za
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: mailman@atex.kodak.com (Paul Mailman)
Subject: UUCP protocol standards: where?
Originator: mailman@groucho
Keywords: UUCP
Reply-To: mailman@atex.kodak.com
Organization: Atex, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:58:48 GMT


Can someone recommend a source for documentation of the standards for UUCP
protocols? Documents accessible by anonymous FTP are ideal, hardcopy references
also welcome.
-- 
  ......................................................................
 . Paul Mailman                       My _other_ Email address doesn't  .
 . work: mailman@atex.kodak.com       need a disclaimer!                .
  .home: pmailman@genesis.nred.ma.us  ..................................
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: k32116h@puukko.hut.fi (Petri Riihikallio)
Subject: Emulating MNP 4+5 ?
Keywords: mnp
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:13:27 GMT

Hi

Does anybody know how the MNP protocols are emulated in terminal software?
I have seen MTE by MagicSoft do this. I haven't seen anything for Mac, though.
I think it would be feasible to write a connection tool to do it. 

So I have a few questions:
 - Where can I ftp the protocol specs?
 - Is there some sample code available? (I have found some for MNP-2)
 - How do I get rid of start and stop bits generated by Mac hardware? How are
   PCs different in this sense?
 - I have figured out that V.42 and V.42bis can not be emulated. Please
   correct if I am mistaken.

Please reply in email. I'll summarize the replies.

Thanks for the time.

Petri
________________________
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen)
Subject: Re: New Internet protocol for image transfer
Followup-To: comp.protocols.misc
Organization: Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, CA
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:32:13

Yep.  From the RFC:

> A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.
> 
> 	RFC 1314:
> 
>         Title:      A File Format for the Exchange of Images 
>                     in the Internet
>        	Author:     A. Katz & D. Cohen
> 	Mailbox:    katz@isi.edu, cohen@isi.edu
> 	Pages:      23
> 	Characters: 54,072
>         Obsoletes/Updates:  none
> 
> 
> This document defines a standard file format for the exchange of
> fax-like black and white images within the Internet.  It is a product
> of the Network Fax Working Group of the Internet Engineering Task
> Force (IETF).
> 
> This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.
> 
> RFCs can be obtained via FTP from FTP.NISC.SRI.COM, NIS.NSF.NET,
> NISC.JVNC.NET, VENERA.ISI.EDU, WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU, SRC.DOC.IC.AC.UK,
> FTP.CONCERT.NET, or NIC.DDN.MIL.

Bill
--
 Bill Janssen      janssen@parc.xerox.com      (415) 812-4763
 Xerox Palo Alto Research Center      FAX: (415) 812-4777
 3333 Coyote Hill Road, Palo Alto, California   94304
Xref: sparky comp.protocols.misc:593 comp.protocols.tcp-ip:3812
From: tim@rri.uucp (Tim Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: New Internet protocol for image transfer
Keywords: internet, images, protocol
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:44:34 GMT
Reply-To: "rri!tim"@vtserf.cc.vt.edu
Followup-To: comp.protocols.misc
Organization: Recognition Research Inc., Blacksburg, VA

I recently heard of a new protocol being developed for image transfer
on the Internet, including compression.  Does anyone know what I'm talking
about?  Can you point me towards some information?  An RFC?

Thanks
Tim Buck
timbuck@borg.lib.vt.edu
rri!tim@vtserf.cc.vt.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: kbridge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Doug Karl)
Subject: New Version of OSU KarlBridge available with SNMP and more filters
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:08:16 GMT

	    Add Security and Cleanup your network
	      by blocking those unwanted packets
			    with

		     The OSU KarlBridge

			Version 1.33

        (now with full SNMP support and more filters)

The OSU KarlBridge is a program, that runs on a  286 or 386 clone.
It provides a unique and inexpensive  Ethernet to  Ethernet bridge
that performs sophisticated protocol filtering.  The bridge can be
configured to filter packets based upon ANY Ethernet protocol such
as IP, IPX, DECNET, AppleTalk, and etc. In addition it will filter
packets based upon  IP address, IP network, IP subnet, and socket.
It will also  filter  packets  based upon  DECNET  address,  area,
Object number and Object name.  Also,  AppleTalk  packets  can be
filtered based upon server name,  printer name,  and/or zone name.

Some Examples:

  You can use  OSU KarlBridge as a standard medium performance MAC
  layer  Ethernet to Ethernet bridge with SNMP  (MIB II, EtherMIB,
  BridgeMIB & SNMP MIB).  You can assemble your own  IBM cloan and
  use the free software or  buy the  inexpensive pre-assembled and
  tested commercial version.

  You can configure  OSU KarlBridge  to restrict  IP  traffic from
  your public computer labs or  dial-in-lines to  IP addresses and
  subnets within your campus or enterprise wide network. This will
  prohibit  unauthenticated access to the your machines and/or the
  Internet in conformance with RFC 1173).

  You can  configure  OSU KarlBridge  to  keep  file  servers  and
  printers (Apple, Novell, Banyan, LanManager, etc.)  on  the same
  network from interacting with each other in undesirable ways.

Join thousands of people worldwide who are using the KarlBridge to
relieve some of their networking headaches. The  OSU KarlBridge is
the most flexible and easily configured bridge you have ever seen!
Get a copy, read the README file, run the configuration program on
your favorite PC, and let me know what you think.

The OSU KarlBridge can be obtained via anonymous ftp from:

    nisca.acs.ohio-state.edu, 128.146.1.7, in /pub/kbridge.

Please send e-mail to kbridge@osu.edu with questions and comments.

Doug Karl
Senior Computer Specialist
The Ohio State University
From: spoelhof@kodak.com (Gordon C. Spoelhof)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
Subject: Re: New Internet protocol for image transfer
Keywords: acr/nema, medical imaging, protocol
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:12:34 GMT
Reply-To: spoelhof@kodak.com (Gordon C. Spoelhof)
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company - Health Sciences Division

In article <503@rri.UUCP>, tim@rri.uucp (Tim Buck) writes:
> 
> I recently heard of a new protocol being developed for image transfer
> on the Internet, including compression.  Does anyone know what I'm talking
> about?  Can you point me towards some information?  An RFC?
> 
> Thanks
> Tim Buck
> timbuck@borg.lib.vt.edu
> rri!tim@vtserf.cc.vt.edu


Although not an "Internet" protocol, the ACR/NEMA body has completed
draft 3.0 of a Medical Imaging protocol suite.  This protocol includes
image presentation as well as messaging.  One of the transport stacks
endorsed within this industry standard is TCP/IP.


Gordon Spoelhof / Eastman Kodak Co. / HSD 2-8-C-39105
100 Carlson Road / Rochester, NY 14653-9105
e-mail:  spoelhof@kodak.com       phone: (716)253-9734
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.misc
From: jstone@netcom.com (Jeffrey Stone)
Subject: XTP Newsgroup?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:54:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


-- 

Jeffrey Stone		jstone@netcom.com		415.324.0443