HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Media coverage for Marrou/Lord (call these #'s!)
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:57:21 GMT

In article <BvovxM.IKJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer) writes:
|> This article appeared in the October LP News.
|> 
|> LP SHOWS UP IN POLLS - The Marrou/Lord Campaign has
|> begun to show up in some national polls, reports
|> campaign chairman Steve Dasbach.
|> 
|> "For months, CompuServe Information Service has excluded
|> Marrou from the list of candidates in their on-line
|> poll," remarked Dasbach. "Finally, in late August, he
|> was included. The most recent results (9/11/92); Bush
|> 43%, Clinton 42%, Marrou 5%, Someone Else 3%, No One 1%,
|> Undecided 5%."

snip-snip

|> -- 
|> Mike Linksvayer   m-linksvayer@uiuc.edu   +1 217 344 1326

Keep in mind that CompuServe users and computer users in general
are different from those people who don't use computers in many
subtle and not so subtle ways.  I would venture to guess that
most CompuServe users are white-collar workers, and very few are
blue-collar workers.  This could show up as a strong bias in the
stats you quote as opposed to the true national opinion which
is best interpreted at the polls.

Stats are useful tools, but one must be very careful to understand
any biases that may be present.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Intergraph Corporation		Huntsville, AL
Electronics Division		(205) 730-8537

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who can count, and those who can't.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:49720 alt.politics.elections:15286 alt.politics.bush:7837 alt.politics.clinton:8629
From: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: perot's media schedule....
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:11:25 GMT
Organization: Mips Technologies, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: suntory.mti.sgi.com

Tom Limoncelli) writes:
|> Joe Collins) writes:
|> 
|> >His book "UNITED WE STAND" continued another week of being #1
|> >on the NY Times Bestseller list for paperbacks.
|> 
|> Just a note.  This doesn't mean that people are reading the book and
|> agreeing, it might mean that they're just curious.
|> 
|> Also, the NYT Bestseller List is not based on book sales.  Instead, it
|> is based on number of books SHIPPED.  That is, is is based on (1) what
|> purchasing managers think is going to sell, (2) what publishers are
|> pushing this week.
|> 
|> Therefore, if a publisher wants to make a book seem like it's selling,
|> they just have to ship tons of books "on consignment".
|> 
|> Proof?  A friend of mine just got a book contract and was guaranteed a
|> place on the list for at least 2 weeks.
|> 
|> Critical thinkingly,

Add a little statistics.  The average american reads less than 1 book per
year.  2 million readers is a lot of readers but not a lot of voters.
-- 
These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.politics.clinton
From: jcburt@cs.wm.edu (John Burton)
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Organization: The College of William and Mary
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:29:06 GMT

In article <lckg3tINNnv1@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>Larry Margolis) writes:
>|> John Townsend) writes:
>|> >
>|> > It most certainly is.  You can't possibly think that if George Bush is
>|> > reelected abortion will be made illegal.
>|> 
>|> Why not?  Certainly the Republican Party platform is anti-abortion - it
>|> doesn't allow any exceptions for rape or incest.
>|> 
>Actually, the real problem is tht I don't know what to think.  George Bush
>says he supports the Republican Party platform, and then says something 
>else as well.  Also, I was under the understanding that the platform does
>not even allow for abortions for rape or incest.
>

Thats kinda the problem with Bush...he'll say or do whatever it takes
to get re-elected. He has no interest in the good of the people or the
good of the country outside of what might earn him votes.

>|> > the Reagan/Bush "packed" Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld
>|> > Roe v. Wade.
>|> 
>|> Barely.  And Blackmun has stated that he's not going to hang on another
>|> 4 years.
>|> 
>If you only counted the votes of the justices appointed by
>Reagan and Bush, RvW would be long gone.
>
>John must be prevaricating.  He can't possibly believe what he
>posted.  Can he?
>-- 
>These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
>occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.marrou
From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)
Subject: Re: Media coverage for Marrou/Lord (call these #'s!)
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:41:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: utarlg.uta.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Oct5.200227.16334@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire) writes...
>As to Perot doing so much better than the LP as a reason to cover him
>and not the LP: Perot is doing this well because he has been covered.
>How well would he be doing without media attention?  

Perot has been in the media longer than the LP's been around.

Just a minor point of trivia. I wish the LP well, and they really
ought to make sure that there are Marrou Halloween Masks available,
since there will be for the other candidates. (Keep the smile)

-- Stephen  "Think About IT -- Harder, Harder!"
From: kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: If you want to know if Ross is Running -- Ask US.
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:45:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <01GP0WYBPOK0000TC1@utarlg.uta.edu> B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE) writes:

> If you really want to know if Ross Perot is running -- Ask US --
> just plain Americans.

Ask me -- I'm just a plain American (cat flames >/dev/null) -- and
I'll tell you: Ross is running -- regardless of what the "volunteers"
say (though "dupes" is a more appropriate word).

> There is no reason to ask Ross, he already told you,

He told us back in mid-July.  What has changed since then?  Were the
"volunteers" telling him not to get in the race?  Or does he only
listen to the "volunteers" on some days?

> the issue has gone down to the state coordinators and from there back
> to the people.

And the state coordinators who felt they were betrayed by Ross back on
July 16th (or whenever it was) and would never support him again have
now been replaced by more compliant ones.

> And if you're interested in a Cooperative Alliance no matter what
> your party or politics is, which has the American People at heart,
> (rather than beating-up on everyone else, just to win the election),
> then please join our movement.

If anyone is really interested in a "Cooperative Alliance" they should
look elsewhere than to Ross Perot.

> The message we're sending to the parties is =cooperate=, open the
> discussion to the people who aren't part of the present political
> class, and offer your best positions with an intent of coming to
> a compromise position.

The message you're sending is that you're a bunch of dupes who would
line up behind any Pied Piper who throws you a few meaningless slogans
that make you feel good -- and are brainless enough to do so even
_AFTER_ you've been screwed by him once.
-- 
The views expressed herein are my   ||  Theodore A. Kaldis
my own only.  Do you seriously      ||  kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu
believe that a major university as  ||  {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis
this would hold such views???       ||
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:48480 alt.activism:16895 talk.environment:3964
From: kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,talk.environment
Subject: Re: The Decline of America: Energy Policy (II)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:58:10 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Sep24.090300.19091@kub.nl> dleblanc@kub.nl (David Leblanc) writes:

> Of course there are many reasons for the decline in Canada's oil
> imports (advertising, utility sponsered conversion programs, better
> building standards, etc.) but the overwhelming reason is clearly the
> price of gas and oil in Canada.  I have to wonder if gas-guzzlers
> would be quite so popular in the US with gas at $2+ per gallon (which
> would still be cheap compared to most of the developed world).

Stick to talking about Canada, please.  In the U.S., the price of gas
is determined by the law of supply and demand.
-- 
The views expressed herein are my   ||  Theodore A. Kaldis
my own only.  Do you seriously      ||  kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu
believe that a major university as  ||  {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis
this would hold such views???       ||
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast
From: harry@netnews.alf.dec.com (Harry Katz)
Subject: Jack S Slams Holocaust Survivors (Was: ARF DEFENDS HIS HONOR)
Organization: DEC - Customer Support Center, Alpharetta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:16:01 GMT

From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: ARF DEFENDS HIS HONOR
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 04:42:33 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <19q56nINNaik@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:

	And while releasing Demjanjuk would be good PR for Israel,
	the search for truth should come first.

In article <Bv2Fqy.tv@ddsw1.mcs.com>,
arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) responds:

	If you followed that kangaroo trial...

Mr. Schmidling is so given to hysterical histrionics that it is
impossible to tell what exactly his meaning is here.  While the term
"kangaroo trial," would normally be interpreted as meaning a thoroughly
corrupt and unjust process, in Mr. Schmidling's vocabulary it may mean
nothing more than a minor procedural difference between the American
and Israeli judicial system.


arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) continues:

	...you will realize that the most embarrassing thing that would
	happen to israel would be to admit it was a sham.

Mr. Schmidling is putting words into Mr. Kaufman's mouth.  Not a
single respected jurist has found any "sham" in the Demjanjuk
proceedings.  Demjanjuk himself has not complained of his treatment.
If he were to be released it would not be an admission of flaws in his
trial.  It would merely be an acknowledgement that the newly discovered
evidence, as flimsy as it is, casts the very slightest shadow of a doubt
on his guilt.  The good publicity for Israel would come from the
affirmation of clemency in a situation where no other civilized country
would do the same.


arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) continues:

	It would make all the survivors and witness look like the
	senile old farts I said they were.

Here Mr. Schmidling reveals the true depths of his compassion for
innocent victims of oppression.  After what these Holocaust survivors
have been through, Mr. Schmidling's puerile epithets will not hurt
them, but they do offend those of us whose parents are survivors.
Mr. Schmidling himself has often maintained that name calling is way of
avoiding discussion of the issues, yet he himself seems unable to
conduct a discussion without resorting to it.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:48864 soc.motss:41315
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.motss
Subject: Re: William F. Buckley opposes anti-gay ballot measure
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:15:01 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <9209302025.AA09708@client.its.rpi.edu>, buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> 
> Carl Kadie posted elsewhere:
> 
>  ELECTION UPDATE (Washington Blade, 9/21/92)
> 
>  WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY OPPOSES ANTI-GAY BALLOT MEASURE: Conservative
>  columnist William F. Buckley Jr., in a syndicated column published
>  today, declares his opposition to a ballot measure in Oregon which
>  seeks to change the state constitution to prohibit Gay rights
>  protections.
> 
>      In a commentary that is certain to startle his fellow
>  conservatives, Buckley also comes out in favor of allowing Gays to
>  serve in the military.
> 
>      Noting that the Oregon initiative would constitutionally
>  classify homosexuality as "abnormal, wrong, unnatural, and
>  perverse," Buckley states, "Are Oregonians really prepared to ask
>  the state to codify all capital sins? If so, why not throw in sloth
>  and greed?"
> 
>      Buckley states that American conservatives should hold firm to
>  the belief that homosexuality is a "violation of an organize moral
>  code." But he says conservatives should make "elementary
>  concessions" by supporting the rights of Gays to serve in the
>  military, sensitive government agencies, and all private
>  occupations except the teaching of children in schools.

This report makes Buckley's position very unclear.  If his position is
principled, which Buckley's positions usually are, and as is suggested
by "Are Oregonians really prepared to ask the state to codify all
capital sins...?" then how can he speak of "concessions?"  Can anybody
flesh this out?

His fellow Conservatives shouldn't be too surprised; Buckley was for
the Panama Canal Treaty when Reagan opposed it; and he rejected
Buchanan early on.  If he has an ideology it is traditional Catholic,
which by no means always coincides with the Protestant Evangelical
Right.  His fellow Conservatives should listen to him, though, because
without Buckley's lifetime of work they wouldn't even have a voice.
-- 
********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: dscharfe@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com (David Scharfe)
Subject: Re: Perot treating us like idiots
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: Datapoint Corporation, San Antonio, TX
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 21:08:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.120028.7304@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.233052.1366@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, falknemj@cnsvax.uwec.edu
>writes:
>
>No you are both wrong. Perot is following the orders given to him by George
>Herbert Walker Bush.
>
>
>Perot has at all times strenuously attempted to align himself with the Democrats
>platform. This is so that he takes voters from Clinton who will return to Bush
>when he quits a second time endorsing Bush just before polling day.
>

Take this dreck where it belongs; see follow-up line.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Call 1-800-925-1300 -- If you want Perot for President
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:40:00 GMT

A tally is being made of the calls that come in.

So if you want Ross to declare his candidacy 
call 1-800-925-1300. 

Larry King said this was set up to take comments
in a radio interview tonite, but that's not true
-- a short message does confirm your call.

I hope they've got caller ID set-up, it'd be 
interesting to see how the calls are distributed
around the country.

-- Stephen D. Tice  (Arlington Texas) 

" And if Ross would just arrange for a transcript
  of all his speeches and interviews to be made
  available on disk or by hardcopy -- those of
  us without cable (or television) could share
  in what's being said. (Especially without the
  news media distortions.) "


<-- information ends. Extreme sarcasm follows -->

Caller id polls would probably be a heck of a lot more 
accurate than the partially reported poll data that 
comes out of TIME/CNN. ("Bush 40%, Clinton 50%". 
Yeah right, ...of the 10 people who are registered 
voters who voted in the last election in their office 
pool. 

Just remember two days till the new $1.5 T Federal 
Budget is due. Two days till the Pork-Party's-Programs
are supposed to be signed into law. Will the gop
president veto -- as a election tactic -- or will
he force the congress to cut out the low priority
pork padding?? Can the Pork-Party congresscreeps
muster an overide? How shrill will the squealling
become? It's all a show. In the end the tax-payer
still gets screwed. 

<-- end of sarcasm. 

Thank you Maureen Reagan for so clearly telling 
how much you disdain those outside the "political
class" in your interview with Lyn Nofzinger (sp?)
tonite. I needed a good slap in the face to wake
me up again. 

2 more days...

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:48637 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:6083 alt.politics.elections:14670 talk.abortion:39476 alt.sex:31364 alt.politics.clinton:7826 alt.politics.bush:7198
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.sex,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (9/19/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:42:46 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Sep29.181549.24156@pwcs.stpaul.gov> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
> Erik Karl Witte <ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> > She is only the victim of her own choice to irresponsibly have sex when
> > she was not willing to bear the potential consequences.  If she really
> > didn't want a pregnancy, she shouldn't have risked getting it.
>
> Question for you, Erik: what do you suppose made this woman desperate
> enough to risk her life to not be pregnant?
>

Bad drugs?  Peer pressure?  Mental disorder?  She found out the child
was male and she hates males?  She hated the father?  She didn't know
who the father was?  Unwarranted fear?	Bad advice?

> --
> Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
>	     "Remember! Arguments should be FUN!" -- Jessica McGeary
>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections
From: ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser)
Subject: "...And You Can't Pretend to Have a Choice, Shake Your Head..."
Organization: TECHNET, Singapore
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:43:44 GMT



A liar, a dodger, and a quiter.

What kind of choice is that?
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: consumer group admits mistake
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:45:31 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

Another jewel from the Atlanta Journal and Constitution.
Friday September 25, 1992

By Anne Rochell
Staff writer

Using tactics that worked in other states, Georgia Citizen Action this
summer set out to end price-gouging at four Humana hospitals in Georgia.

However, the consumer advocacy group now admits its campaign was a mistake,
launced without evidence, to make a point about the rising cost of health
care.

"It's not our normal practice," said director Marc Wetherhorn.  "It has to
do with the zeal we have in trying to point ou problems in the current
health care problem."

Georgia Citizen Action, the local arm of a national group that boasts
3 million members in 32 states, relies heavily on media coverage to 
legitimize its causes.

"People tend to be a little mistrusting,"  said GCA's  program coordinator
Lori Everhart.  "But when they see we're acting hand-in-hand with the
media ..."

In using the media as a forum for an attack on Humana, the group may
have gone to far.

MS. Everhart held a news conference in August outside the hospital's
Snellville facility to demand lower prices.

	[stuff about Humana in Lousville, KY deleted]

In a statement a few weeks after her news conference, Ms. Everhart said
evidence of price-gouging had started "to pour in from ourtraged
consumers."  Asked about how many people had called, Ms. Everhart said
about 20.

Ms. Everhart then told the media that, according to a hospital bill she
obtained from a patient, Humana-Gwinnett's room charges were $418 a day.
In fact, the hospital charges $286 a day, slightly cheaper than a bed at
Gwinnett Medical Center, the counties public facility.

When asked about the figure, Ms. Everhart admitted whe wasn't sure if the
charge she released was for a special room or possibly an intensive care
unit.

Mr. Wetherhorn said he doesn't know of any other time the group has released
false information.

The group's strenght lies in its ability to collect members, whose dues
support Mr. Wetherhorn's lobbying efforts.

[Stuff about the history of GCA deleted]

[End of article]

The thing I noticed abut the article, was there was no effort to apologize
the Humana for lying about them.  The group was concerned that this mistake
might affect their credibility though.

I guess once you buy into the argument that business people are out to
rip of the public, you begin to assume that anything bad you hear is
true.  which makes little things like fact checking unneccessary.

-- 
Mark
My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: You're NO John Kennedy
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:27:53 GMT
Organization: Superseding Information, Inc.

In <7610059@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM sez:
>
>Sen. Lloyd Bentsen of Texas, then the Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate,
>to then-Sen. J. Danforth Quayle of Indiana, during the 1988 Vice-Presidential
>Debate.
>
>A closer quote is "Senator, I knew Jack Kennedy - Jack Kennedy was a personal
>friend of mine.  And Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy!"  Not exact, but that's
>the best I can dredge up from my memory.  As I recall, Quayle had no reply -
>he just stood there looking somewhat stunned.

Actually, Quayle's reply was along the lines of "That was really
uncalled for, Senator."  

-- 
			 Cash value 1/20 cent

	Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com    ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.sex,alt.politics.clinton
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:00:56 -0400 
From: Erik Karl Witte <ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
	<1992Sep28.024902.23519@midway.uchicago.edu>

Recently posted by Rini Clarkberg:
> In article <Bv9LIx.qt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> 
> varney@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Bruce Varney) writes:
>  
> >	Well, for your information, (and I know this might shock you)
> >I am NOT the only person in the world who stands up for the right to
> >live. 
> 
> I stand up for life too.   That's why when I look at the picture 
> on page 310 of The New Our Bodies, Ourselves and see the picture with 
> the caption:  "Woman dead on motel room floor.  Her death was due to
> an air embolism suffered during an illegal abortion," I want to cry.

This is sort of like a murder - suicide.  The woman had no right to take
away her baby's life and died while trying.