From: rogue@ucrengr.ucr.edu (ed zeamba)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: New bard Kit "Troubadour" --Re: bards
Keywords: bards killers
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:07:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <1gb26lINNd72@crcnis1.unl.edu> pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard) writes:
>has anyone noticed that each of the books in the PHBR series (those nifty class
>and race books) seem to be adding more and more power to the game.(by comparison
>First of all, I used to like bards as described in the PHB.  They were really
>fun and yet the game had some balance to it.  Then you add dual-class and multi-
First of All, your observation about kits powering-up the classes is right.
But, even if you play by official TSR rules, the complete 'x' books are
optional.  I've known DM's to scrap them and others to modify them,
but all in all, most contain some good material, if you dont mind paying
for it...

>to come in the future or we wouldn't have thought them so good) Finally the
>thieves book came out and the prior books paled by comparison.  

Yea, the fighter book was what I would call "medium power level."  The 
cavalier is good, but the Barbarian sucks!  Even though role-playing
suggestions are important, every kit should have some COMBAT bonueses 
and penalties.  The thief kits are almost entirerly Role-playing only!
Whats the point?  I know how to role-play, I'll role-play my thief-
acrobat as I see it...  The Acrobat was my favorite class from the UA,
though it was a bit overpowered.  
I have written a revised "mid-high power acrobat" that I will post soon.
>
>Compare two similar kits from two different classes, the Swashbuckler.  They
>both get a +2 reaction vs opposite sex, no disadvantages (trouble seeks him/her
>out??? get real!), and both use Fencing weapons.  The fighter gets a -2 to
>armor class and a free specialization in one weapon.  The thief gets to fight
>as a fighter with one fencing weapon and gets to disarm.  Well, at first level
>things are ok, the fighter fights better and the thief is sneakier.  But one
>thing they forgot is that thieves advance faster and soon will attack better
>than a fighter with the same amount of experience.  This and being able to 
>sneak around and backstab for even more damage.  The fighter gets more hit
>points.  Hmmmmm, by comparison I think the Thief has more than a little bit
>of an edge.

First notice, that the Thief swashbuckler requires a couple more high
stats than does the fighter version (these stats expect a 3d6 game, if
yer doing 4d6 you should raise them...) 
I like the thief swashbuckler...its actually worth it to wear little
armor (like Eroll Flynn-like heroes) and still have a decent AC.
As far as balances, its Definately up to the DM to give this one a hard
time.  As a DM, I love this disadvantage.. hehehe.  also I believe
there are some other disads...perhaps limited armor when swashbucklng?

Thieves "attack better than a fighter with the same amount of experience" ?!?
I think you better look at those x.p. chart again!  The thief has the
3rd Worse THAC0.  He is no where near the to hit ability of the fighter
(though I find that thieves are better fighters at low levels if they
dual-weapon..)  Now, about the parrying.  Parry was introduced in the
Fighters HB, but Any class can do it! (you may need to specialize in
a weapon style though..)  I dont know why they list the swashbuckler
parry as a special ability, except to say he parries at Fighter THAC0
and not rogue!
>
>Now think of this, the dwarf book comes along and introduces multiclass
>character kits.  hmmmmm, well, maybe that makes more people want to play
>dwarves so thats ok.  then.......the Bard's book comes out.

Yep..and now people are taking another look at bards too!  I agree the
origianl bard (in PHBv2) is great, but it doen't appeal to many people,
so they came up with different kinda of bard.  Quite ingenious I think.
And why shouldn't elves be allowed to be bards?  Well they should, and
now they can (optionally :)  
Personally, I like my Dwarven Fighter/Skald!  (now that makes sense!)

>mage)  In the case of a Jongleur, its a better acrobat than a Thief with the
>Acrobat kit! (kind of defeats the purpose of the Acrobat kit huh?)

Yea, I grimiced at the Jongleur!  But then, I said "Hey"  I just have to
make a better "thief=acrobat"  and I did.  viola!  TSR is no where
near perfect, but I'll use thier published rules, to verify my creations.
No one can argue with my acrobat, I just point to the Jongluer!
>
remeber is a "good DM" that uses what he wants from the handbooks and
creates what else he wants.  Creattivity is the whole point right?

Next post.  the bard "Troubadour"> 


-- 
     /                                                                \
@###I===============> "Know me as GORD of GREYHAWK..." <===============I###@ 
     \		                                                      /
rogue@ucrengr.ucr.edu		UC Riverside -- home of the Guildsman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd