HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brand@addvax.llnl.gov (Hal R. Brand, LLnL, 510-422-6312)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Subject: Re: your government in action (was Re: CIAC bulletin D-04)
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:56:00 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <lhx1x_k@rpi.edu>, fitzgb@mml0.meche.rpi.edu (Brian Fitzgerald) writes...
>:-)
> 
>>From: mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
>>Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, California, USA
>writes:
>....
>>
>>        _____________________________________________________
>>             The Computer Incident Advisory Capability
>>                         ___  __ __    _     ___
>>                        /       |     / \   /
>>                        \___  __|__  /___\  \___
>>        _____________________________________________________
>>                           INFORMATION BULLETIN
>>
>>       18 New and Upgraded Security Patches Available For SunOS
>....
>[ Ken Pon's announcement to Sun Customers, renumbered and reformatted ]
>....
>>This document was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency
>>of the United States Government.  Neither the United States Government
> 
>.... man, I'm in the wrong line of work. :-)
> 
>Brian
>(future consultant :-))

It should be remembered that Ken Pon was hired away from CIAC by Sun.
Accordingly, CIAC has great respect for Ken's work and would never dream
of changing one little word! :^) (For a less tonge-in-cheek reason, see
items 2 and 3 below.)

It should also be noted that:
	1) The posting of this CIAC bulletin was not by CIAC - CIAC uses
		a surface mail list and an e-mail list for distribution.
		(I also have it on good authority that comp.security.announce
		is not currently available to CIAC as a distribution
		channal.)
	2) CIAC bulletins are prepared by the DOE's CIAC team for the
		benefit of DOE installations, many of which are not
		on the Internet or otherwise don't quickly see Ken's
		(Sun's) security announcements. Renumbering/reformatting
		is part of the administrative necessities of their
		business. The CERT/CC follows basically the same policy.
	3) Believe it or not, some information reaches security groups
		such as CIAC and the CERT/CC where the provider of that
		information requires particular wording. (While this may
		not be the case with this bulletin, it is often unwise to
		deviate too far from vendor wording. This helps avoid
		misunderstandings. (For fun, compare CIAC bulletins and
		CERT/CC advisories generated from the same Sun security
		dispatch!)
	4) Don't be put-off by the disclaimer. The US government uses that
		everywhere - its required basically everywhere! Given the
		state of governmental bureaucracy, are you surprised??

OK, yes, I've had some fun with this, but hopefully I provided some
insight/information also.
					Hal R. Brand
					(Another Ex-CIACer)
					LLNL
					brand@addvax.llnl.gov
Xref: sparky comp.security.misc:1785 comp.sys.sun.hardware:5699
From: sjc@seg.npl.co.uk (S J Collins)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Physical security kits for Suns - source ?
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:24:06 GMT
Organization: National Physical Laboratory, UK

Sun SPARC workstations have rectangular holes in their cases and identified
by a chain icon.  I take it that these are designed to accept barbed metal
eyelets through which security cables can be threaded to prevent/hinder
physical removal of the workstation.  Such a concept is well established in
the UK Macintosh community, with appropriate security kits available from a
number of sources, but almost totally unknown amongst the UK Sun community;
Sun UK being most notable in its apparent inability to respond to my simple
request to be referred to a security kit supplier.  One representative of
one of Sun UK's Authorised Business Centres even seemed to have difficulty
in understanding why we should even feel it necessary to lock our work-
stations down !

Can anyone out there in Netland help me ?

Thanks in anticipation, Steve

================================================================================
Stephen J Collins - system administrator              Software Engineering Group
                                         snailmail>   Division of IT & Computing
Standard               sjc@seg.npl.co.uk  <email    National Physical Laboratory
disclaimers              +44 81 977 7091   <FAX          Queens Road, Teddington
apply                    +44 81 943 6987   <Tel          Middlesex, TW11 0LW, UK
================================================================================
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be different ... support standardz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-- 
================================================================================
Stephen J Collins - system administrator              Software Engineering Group
                                         snailmail>   Division of IT & Computing
Standard               sjc@seg.npl.co.uk  <email    National Physical Laboratory
From: s0d2506@nigel.tamu.edu (Sanjay Deo)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Subject: Details Regarding Eighth Annual Computer Security, San Antonio, Texas
Date: 23 Nov 1992 16:48:30 GMT
Organization: Texas A & M University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.tamu.edu

Can anyone please send me the details of the above mentioned conference 
which is scheduled for Nov 30 - Dec 4 in San Antonio. I have sent emails 
to the office bearers but still have not received any registration
details.

Responses will be summarized for reader's benefit.


Thanks,

-Sanjay

Xref: sparky comp.security.misc:1767 alt.security:4824
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,alt.security
Subject: Re: Communications of the ACM
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:28:27
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: psr@castle.ed.ac.uk's message of 16 Nov 92 20:27:36 GMT

On 16 Nov 92 20:27:36 GMT, psr@castle.ed.ac.uk (Paul S Randal) said:

> Does anyone know where the archive sites are for the following groups:

> 1) The ACM (whatever it is), specifically 'Communications of the ACM'

The ACM is the Association for Computing Machinery, a computer science
professional society. There is no specific "archieve" site, you didn't
indicate what you are looking for. Try sending mail to ACMHELP@ACMVM.BITNET,
or asking on the comp.org.acm newsgroup.

> 4) National Computer Security Conference

These are not available online. Contact the National Computer Security Center.

Daniel Faigin
Chair, ACM/SIGSAC
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: hmj@cs.tut.fi (J{rvinen Hannu-Matti)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Subject: Re: Setuid script - is this unsecure?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 13:47:34 GMT
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kuukkeli.cs.tut.fi

In article <AMOSS.92Nov6102549@shuldig.cs.huji.ac.il> amoss@shuldig.cs.huji.ac.il (Amos Shapira) writes:
>A general suggestion for a programme which will do what you want would be:
>
>main (ac, av)
>	int ac;
>	char **av;
>{
>	exec ("/usr/etc/mount", av);
>}
>
>and have the object of this C programme suid root.

Equivalent would be that you let anybody execute mount (i.e., set
mount suid), which is not reasonable. Also you have to deny suid
programs on the floppy, and ensure that there does not exist special
devices on the floppy.

I've written a set of programs (fdmkfs, fdmount, and fdumount) to give
users access to the floppy. They are available by anonymous ftp on
site cs.tut.fi (130.230.4.2), file pub/src/tut/floppy.shar. Use on
your own risk.

-- 
-----
Hannu-Matti Jarvinen, hmj@cs.tut.fi
Opinions of tut != opinions of mine, and vice versa.
TTKK on samaa mielt{ kanssani siit{, ett{ en edusta sen mielipidett{.
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
From: steven@enel.ucalgary.ca (Steven Leikeim)
Subject: Re: Setuid script - is this unsecure?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:52:37 GMT
Organization: ECE Department, U. of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

In article <1eg5tmINN9eh@cs.tut.fi> hmj@cs.tut.fi (J{rvinen Hannu-Matti) writes:
>Equivalent would be that you let anybody execute mount (i.e., set
>mount suid), which is not reasonable. Also you have to deny suid
>programs on the floppy, and ensure that there does not exist special
>devices on the floppy.
>
>I've written a set of programs (fdmkfs, fdmount, and fdumount) to give
>users access to the floppy. They are available by anonymous ftp on
>site cs.tut.fi (130.230.4.2), file pub/src/tut/floppy.shar. Use on
>your own risk.
>
>-- 
>-----
>Hannu-Matti Jarvinen, hmj@cs.tut.fi
>Opinions of tut != opinions of mine, and vice versa.
>TTKK on samaa mielt{ kanssani siit{, ett{ en edusta sen mielipidett{.

Another set of programs which I have used is mntdisk. This was posted in
comp.sources.unix volume 22, and is available from many ftp sites. It includes
support for diskettes UNIX and PC formats (at least on Suns), CD's and
Erasable Optical Disks. It attempts to make sure that you do not mount
diskettes with device files and mounts with the nosuid option to prevent
misuse of diskettes.

As shipped it lets you mount the diskette wherever you like. However, it
is easy to modify to only allow mounts on specific directories if this is
necessary.


-- 
Steven Leikeim                        |
University of Calgary                 |   There are lies, damned lies,
Department of Electrical Engineering  |        and statistics.
Internet: steven@enel.ucalgary.ca     |
Xref: sparky comp.security.misc:1762 alt.security:4822 comp.unix.admin:6205
From: jon_care@hicom.lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,alt.security,comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: Tripwire release
Date: 14 Nov 92 03:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: jon_care@hicom.lut.ac.uk
Organization: Hicom Sevices

In article <1992Nov13.004708.26881@cs.sandia.gov>, mccurley@cs.sandia.gov (Kevin McCurley) writes:
>uri@watson.ibm.com (Uri Blumenthal) writes:
>>    Tripwire supports hooks for up to ten signature routines.  We
>>ship it with MD5, Snefru, CRC32, CRC16, MD4, and MD2.  Although
>>the CRC routines are not "signatures" in the cryptographic sense,
>>they are nice to have since they are considerably faster than the
>>more secure algorithms -- which are (hopefully) one-way hash
>>functions.
>
>I stated earlier that NONE of these, including MD5, Snefru, and MD4,
>are signatures in the cryptographic sense.  A true signature would
>require something like RSA or DSA layered on a one-way hash function
>like MD5 or SHA.  This would not significantly impact the speed, since
>RSA on my Sparc would add less than .01 seconds, whereas MD5 runs at
>about a megabyte per second.  Hence as soon as the file is bigger than
>10K, the hash will take longer than the signature.  DSA verification
>will take considerably longer, but I have an implementation that does
>the verification in less than .3 seconds - still acceptable for many
>applications.  If this is too slow for checking 100 files on a UNIX
>system, then you can apply the hash to a large subset of the files
>before finishing with the signature.
>
>Kevin McCurley
>Sandia National Laboratories
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Subject: Re: Two hackers caught tapping into Boeing, federal computers
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:54:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.10034
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1emrkuINNs5s@talon.UCS.ORST.EDU> stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>
>My comment was in response to Dave's claim that the article didn't say
>that the kids "cracked" the root password. Nothing else. You admit
>that they cracked the password, and nobody here has claimed they
>inverted the DES algorithm. What's your problem?

  I stand corrected.  Apologies.

                                       -- Nick

-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  Sea Shells to C shells,  Waikiki to
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/     the Internet, a wave, is a wave...
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                     
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/  CompSrv: 71232,766 * I-Net: Nick+@pitt.edu
From: smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com (Steve Dahmen)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,comp.sys.aix
Subject: (PS) Ftp'ing out of a chroot()ed environment
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:26:26 GMT
Organization: Scientific Research Lab, Ford Motor Company
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sl0091.srl.ford.com
Originator: smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com


I just realized you might need to know the box is an IBM RS/6000 running
AIX 3.2.

-- 
Steve Dahmen ** Graphics Application Programmer
Ford Motor Company
smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com
313-594-3229 (work)
From: bt191@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ravi Pattisam)
Newsgroups: comp.lsi
Subject: Eurosafe SIMM (Single Inline Memory Module)?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 22:39:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Hai Netters:
Now a days I have seen a couple of SIMM Memory manufacturers advertisizing
that their SIMMs are Eurosafe. I am sort of confused with this term 
Eurosafe. What actually they mean by saying Eurosafe. Is there any 
document to that extent.

Please post information pertaining to Eurosafe SIMM memory modules to
the email address: bt191@cleveland.Freent.Edu

Thanks in advance.

Ravi
From: pas@jupitercmc.ca (Peter Stokes)
Subject: Hspice primer, tutorial or cookbook
Reply-To: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:53:03 GMT


Greetings,

A colleague is looking for a tutorial, primer or cookbook for the
Hspice circuit simulator.   Any pointers to something close would
be appreciated.

Peter

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter A. Stokes ~~~~~~~~ pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca ~~~~~~~ (613) 545-2923 ~~~~~
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation ~~~~~~~~~~~ Kingston, Ontario, Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: asgeir@viking.asd.sgi.com (Asgeir Eiriksson)
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
Subject: Re: What is Synopsys?
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:34:16 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: viking.asd.sgi.com

In <BxoB76.7x@world.std.com> jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley) writes:

>From: mohan@tulip.cse.utoledo.edu (Mohan Pakkurti)
>>
>>Can someone tell me what Synopsys stands for ?
>>

I think the name stands for Syn(thesis) of op(timal) Sys(tems) or something
close to that

>  Synopsys is a set of software tools used by chip designers
>  to convert their behavioral models (Verilog or VHDL) into 
                      ^
                      |
                    he meant RTL
Xref: sparky comp.lsi.cad:1146 comp.lsi:699
From: ballen@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Bruce Allen)
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
Subject: error in SPICE-3e2
Date: 22 Nov 1992 06:23:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

Hi Netters,
	I'm running spice-3e2 on a Sun 4 sparcstation, with the sunwindows 
(not X) window system.  When I start up spice I get errors of the form:

external error: MFB error: Unknown terminal type
Warning: can't initialize display device for graphics

I would be happy just to get spice to think I'm using
a vt100 or some dumb terminal.  I've tried the -t vt100
option and gotten the same error message.  What are
some valid options for -t, and how do I avoid this error?

Bruce Allen
(please reply to ballen@dirac.phys.uwm.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
From: "M. Esen Tuna" <mtuna@blacktip.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: ACM's DA Library CD ROM
Summary: Run DALib under twm
Keywords: DALib, twm, openwin
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:22:40 -0500


I have used DALib under X11/twm with the following environment
variable settings: (you should have similar paths in your system)
 
          GKRSHOME=/usr/local/dal/sun4
          LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/dal/openwin-2.0/lib: \
                          /usr/local/windows/sun4/lib:/usr/openwin/lib:/usr/lib
 
I don't think you would be able to "rundal" without the latter
variable set properly. 
 
Now I am using DALib under Openwin/olwm, which makes dealing with
dialog windows of DALib easier, since you can dismiss those windows,
whereas under twm destroying one window kills the whole application. 
 
 
-Esen



   +-------------------------------------------+
   | mtuna@cs.indiana.edu       (812-855-3652) |
   | M. Esen Tuna                              |
   | Indiana University  Computer Science Dept.|
   | Lindley Hall 316, Bloomington, IN 47405   |
   +-------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
From: jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
Subject: E-mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:26:36 GMT


  If you're using the Synopsys Design Compiler and/or their ATPG product, you 
  might be interested in joining the E-Mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG).

  What we are is a group of hardware designers from all over the world who
  wish to trade experiences, bug reports and the techniques that we've
  found that work best in getting a design from a behavioral description
  to a final fully tested product.

  A Sample of What We Discuss:

	- Known Synopsys Compiler Bugs    - Implementing Boundry Scan

	- Mentor related issues    - EDIF related issues

	- Hierarchical Compliations   - design_analyzer   - JTAG

	- How Various ASIC Vendors Model Their Macros.   - Clock Constraints

	- Using ATPG Tools   - The Best Way To Write State Machines in Verilog

	- Using VHDL   - System Simulation vs. Synopsys Friendly Code

	- Clever Workarounds to Known Pitfalls   - Testing Strategies

  In order to insure an open discussion, but yet keep our respective managers
  happy in having our company's projects remain SECRET, submissions to be 
  posted to the ESNUG mailing list can be stripped of identifying engineers 
  and company names if so requested.

  In addition, to further secure privacy and to avoid e-mail headers that
  are hundreds of names long, each mailing is a batch of singlely addressed 
  e-mail letters.

  If you know of anyone who may be interested in this, please give them
  my e-mail address (jcooley@world.std.com or jcooley@miracle.com) or you can 
  send me their address!
					- John Cooley
					  ESNUG Moderator

 ===========================================================================
 Trapped trying to figure out a Synopsys bug?  Want to hear how others dealt
 with it ?  Join the E-Mail Synopsys Users Group!  To join, E-mail me today! 
 ===========================================================================
      !!!     "It's not a BUG,    | Preferred Address: jcooley@world.std.com
     /o o\  /  it's a FEATURE!"   |    Backup Address: jcooley@miracle.com
    (  >  )                       |              (508) 429-4357
     \ - /       |   Snail Mail: P.O. Box 6222, Holliston, MA 01746-6222
     _] [_       |     "This here ain't no one's opinion 'cept my own."


Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
From: rene@socrates.et.tudelft.nl (Rene Bodenstaff)
Subject: Re: alpha chip
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:57:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.175742.12884@risky.ecs.umass.edu>, obiliset@duke.ecs.umass.edu (Sashi V Obilisetty) writes:
> I guess the best way to ensure that there is no skew is to have
> one big buffer, and then have lines from this driver feeding all
> other modules requiring clocks. What I am concerned about is the
> amount of heat/power dissipation that would occur due to this big
> driver.
> Won't it create a hot spot on the chip? The power supply is 3.3V, 
> is this the reason why it works?

  When looking at the micro photograph taken from the Alpha
  (SC-27, nov. 1992, p.1556), it is clear that the buffer is
  not just a small sub-circuit, it takes about 10% of the
  total active area of the chip. So the clock generator wouldn't
  cause a hot _spot_, but a less hot _region_. 

> 
> Also, the chip is designed using 0.75um process with min. channel
> lengths of 0.5um. How can we have long lines running in this technology?
> Wouldn't the transmission line effects become prominent at this point,
> and therefore it makes sense to use distributed driving??

  The transmission line effect is most of significance when dealing
  with high-resistive wires, like poly-silicide.  However, the 
  Alpha people used metal for interconnection, quote:

   "Metal 3 is very thick and has relatively large pitch. It is
    important at these speeds to have a low-resistance metal
    layer available for power and clock distribution."

  Some figures. I'm using an 1.6u CMOS technology, with
  the following sheet resistance for the various layers (typical):

  metal 1      : 45 milli_ohm/square
  metal 2      : 30 milli_ohm/square
  poly silicon : 25 ohm/square 

> 
> Will be glad if someone would clear these doubts.
> Thank You.
> 
> Sashi

/*
  Rene Bodenstaff
  Delft University of Technology
  The Netherlands

  e-mail: rene@hal.et.tudelft.nl
          wodka@dutentc.et.tudelft.nl

   -------------------- Everybody, let's MOVE !! ------------------------
*/
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
From: 8809787l@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
Subject: Wanted: Public Domain Logic Simulator
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:20:57 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia

Dear friends

I was wondering if any one here knows of a public domain logic simulator.
I have looked at the FAQ's for this group without success.

I want a package that would handle most gates and could simulate a circuit with
up to 200 gates and I want it to operate on MS-DOS on IBM PC's.

Thank you very much for your time.

Regards payam pourbeik

Unoiversity of South Australia
School of Electronic Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
Subject: BiCMOS tech. file for GDT 
From: swami@tulip.cse.utoledo.edu (swami gangadharan)
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:26:47 EST

I am looking for technology files for BiCMOS to use with GDT of Mentor Graphics.
Can somebody please give me information about where I can find one.

Thanks very much.



Swami Gangadharan

swami@tulip.es.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lsi.cad
From: yeap@alg3.eecs.nwu.edu (Kok-Hoo Yeap)
Subject: ACM's DA Library CD ROM
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:28:24 GMT

We have installed ACM's DA Library CD ROM on our sun.
But the "rundal" shell script fails at the executable file
"~/dal/sun4/bin/gkrs". It complaints about dynamic linking problem
where certain lib functions are missing. The executable refuses to
load and execute. 

I have talked to their customer support but have not been able
to solve the problem.  The other two executables ("prgr" and "prtxt")
will load and execute though.

I think our library has different a version from what
the DAL's binary file expected. 

Anyone have similar problems ?

Also the package assumes the presence of openwin.
Has anyone been able to run it under other window managers, such as twm ?

-- 
/  Gary (Kok-Hoo) Yeap       yeap@eecs.nwu.edu  \
\  Department of EECS, Northwestern University  /
From: arindam@server.uwindsor.ca (Arindam Das)
Newsgroups: comp.lsi,comp.lsi.cad
Subject: Crossing placement in PI
Keywords: PI Project, Signal routing
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:18:41 GMT
Followup-To: poster

Hi netters,

Had trouble in understanding the concept of "crossing placement": fixed
crossing and "floating crossing" mentioned in 
chapter 7, sec. 7.4.1. of VLSI Placement and Routing:
The PI Project, by Allan Sherman. 

Would like to have pointers to clarify my understanding. 


Would be glad to receive a drawing in postcript or latex.


thanx in advance.

-arindam
-- 
Arindam Das                            email: arindam@CS.Uwindsor.Ca
Dept. of Comp. Sci.                           ph# (519)253-4232Ext 3003/3007
U. of Windsor, Ont, Canada             
Newsgroups: comp.lsi