From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: I waste my time (was: Hitler as Occultist (was: Numbers))
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:16:30 GMT

John Greer (grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu) wrote:

: a)  Politics are more or less the same throughout history and around the
:     world: pretty much the lowest common denominator of human behavior,

One thing that you didn't mention is that politics very often drives religious
belief, not the other way 'round.  Hitler may have claimed he was a Christian
because it would have brought him more political power.  Why does Jimmy Swaggert
claim he's a Christian?  (Yes, Scott, I've read Swaggert, most notably "Straight
Answers to Tough Questions" ... I found it wanting, to say the least)  Because
if he didn't, his followers would flock to someone else, depriving him of the
money and power associated with being an evangelist.  Same with most other
evangelists.  One of the very few I listen to (and like) is Kenneth Hagin.
At least he knows how to cut through the bullshit.  Scott, I would recommend
"Growing Up, Spiritually" as required reading.  It's Christian-oriented, to
be sure, but if you take out the biblical justifications for things, it still
makes a hell of a lot of sense.  Stuff like "don't talk about people behind
their back", "don't flaunt your religion", etc.  Stuff that could go for just
about *anyone* - not just Christians.  So, not all Christian writers "Bambi-ize"
stuff.  Some are pretty damned hard.  Ever read A. W. Tozer?

I will be quick to point out, however, that being a Christian is as often a
political label as it is a religious one.  Paganism is getting the same way. :(

:     However, that's _not_ what the historical record shows.  Most faiths
:     have been used in this way, true -- but to a widely varying extent.
:     Some of the Eastern traditions are near one end of the spectrum.
:     Christianity is at the other.

That's because Christianity, like many western-based religions, puts the
power (and the responsibility) for stuff in the hands of someone else -
whether it be your pastor, Jesus Christ, or God.  Eastern traditions more
often place responsibility (and power) in the hands of the individual.
"God told me to..." is a familiar theme in so-called "religious-based"
violence and oppression.  Using religion as an excuse to exercise political
power is a very old excuse, made even more convenient by the belief in a
diety outside oneself to place responsibility (or blame) on.  Hell, I've
seen the same scenario in Wiccan circles.  Same power games.

: As a final note, a few months ago religious factions in the Republican
: party in the state where I live pushed through a party platform which
: would, among other things, deprive gay and lesbian people of their civil
: rights, forbid P/pagans from a range of occupations (including teaching),
: and mandate specifically Christian prayer in the schools.  Ideas do,
: indeed, shape behavior.

I get *so* tired of people using "<insert name of favorite diety here> told
me/wrote it/whatever, so it's infallible truth, so if you don't believe the
way *I* do, you're not entitled to practice your religion."  Because so many
Christians interpret "I am the way" as a statement of religious superiority
(indeed, even religious intolerance), we are seeing an upswing in religious
intolerance that may soon rival the Inquisitory times. :(
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan