HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amgaudra@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alain M. Gaudrault)
Subject: Re: The ORIGINAL Black Sabbath
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:43:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.235402.1@hmcvax.claremont.edu> mulman@hmcvax.claremont.edu (Mike Ulman) writes:
>
>Any fans of the ORIGINAL Black Sabbath out there?
>
	Big-time.  I've all their albums.  They (along with Alice Cooper) are
pretty much the first band that got me into metal.  I listen mostly to their
material with Ozzy on vocals, but their newer stuff isn't too bad.

>Sure enough, The song Black Sabbath started to play as out came Ozzy Osbourne
>(dressed in a black shirt with white fringes on the sleeves), Tony Iommi,
>Geezer Butler and Bill Ward. The played four songs together: Black Sabbath,
>Fairies Wear Boots, Ironman and Paranoid. It was the most amazing sight I have
>ever witnessed. As I looked at one of the "old timers" there were tears in his
>eyes.
>
	I'm so envious of anyone in that venue, that I can feel a sharp pain in
the pit of my stomach.  Lord, that would have been so special an evening, to
actually be there as the original forces of metal reunited for one last show.
I expect we'll be seeing this concert on video soon, and let it be known that
I'll be picking it up pronto, but it will surely fail to capture the actual
electricity that must have been crackling all over as the mighty Sabbath once
more played classics that will be forever remembered.

>Bill Ward looked pretty bad but the rest looked well enough to Rock'n'Roll and
>they did very well. Like I said, the show was incredible! I never thought I
>would see Sabbath perform but there they were!!!!
>
	You are a very lucky person to have been able to witness such an event.
This is something worth telling your grandchildren about.

Plugging the hole in the sky,
						Big Al the Devil's Pal!!

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: amgaudra@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alain M. Gaudrault)
Subject: Re: BRUCE'S VOICE
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:22:01 GMT

In article <bn.00f7@mndcrme.uoknor.edu> bn@mndcrme.uoknor.edu (Bo Najdrovsky) writes:
>matter of preference, really... I actually liked Dickinson's voice better
>when he did more of the 'operatic' vocals. On the past 3 albums he tries
>to make his voice a bit rougher, and it just doesn't sound right to me.
>Personally, my favorite Maiden period was from _Number_Of_The_Best_ all the
>way to _Somewhere_In_Time_. The latest album (Fear Of The Dark) is much
>better (IMHO) then NPFTD and _7th_Son_... but it ain't nowhere near NOTB or
>Powerslave.
>
	Hear, hear!!  Finally, I've found someone who sees things a bit more
in my direction.  Dickinson's vocals from Number Of The Beast to Somewhere In
Time are the best.  I can't imagine why he'd NOT want to sound like that 
anymore.  I mean, ANYONE can sing like he does now, but it's a select few that
have the lungs to belt out songs like Children Of The Damned.  Iron Maiden's
latest offerings are weak and don't conjure the imagery of past albums.  But
then, that's my opinion.

Never to be underestimated,
						Big Al the Devil's Pal!!
From: djs55750@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (the man )
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Re: Death vs Grindcore vs Thrash
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:26:20 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

donnell@squid.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan) writes:

>MOSH came out of the New York punk scene years before any heavy metal 
>band used it. Hate to tell you, but the most violent Moshing I ever saw
>was at Black Flag shows. Slayer, Death, Pestilence, Deicide, and the rest
>that I have been to, don't even come close.
>Hate to say that you are way off base here, but you are. 

>					--Judex--
>PS: I'm 30, still slam/mosh, and have been doing this for longer than 
>many of you could spell Metallica. Or for that matter, Before Metallica
>and the rest EXISTED!

SO?  Cuz yer an old geezer past his prime means you know all?  By the way,
the boy said his opinions I believe...he said what HE thought they were.  I
don't remember anyone holding a worldwide conference to determine where
certain groups go, so no one is RIGHT...just opinions...

				seeking info on the above mentioned worldwide
				conference,

							the man
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal;,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: bfinney@nyx.cs.du.edu (Brody Finney)
Subject: Sabbath on Rockline
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:48:42 GMT



Did anyone record Sabbath on Rockline this week?  I didn't find out about
it unil this morning.

Brody Finney

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: djs55750@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (the man )
Subject: Re: Death vs Grindcore vs Thrash
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:10:43 GMT

cstadez@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr C M Soanes) writes:

>Ok, here's my two-penneth.

>Personally, I dont dive a shit which group is in which category.
>If a band's music catches my attention, i'll by it.
>If you like a band then it doesn't really matter as to which category their
>in, and from the peceding articles it's pretty clear that the lines are fuzzy
>anyway. so: my maxim is this, if you think you're going to like a band, either
>through hearing a single/video or reading a review, then either find a friend
>who's got some of their stuff and listen, or try it out in your local store.
>categorisation is immaterial, and doesn't affect whether or not the music's
>good does it?.


I think we all know this, Spike, this isn't alt.rock-n-roll.metal, it's
HEAVY!!!!!!!! YEah.. I like this group a lot better, seems to be more
discussion about music and less about flaming and stuff like that bullshit.
Yeah, I am pretty sure we all know it is about the music, but as I stated in
an earlier post, I am just trying to get a basis for discussion, and it is
kind of interesting as to what people think bands are and how they differ.
Plus, I had never really heard of Grindcore, so I was afraid I was missing
something:)  Laters....

					the man who thinks Sepultura is
					incredible even if they were
					classified as disco!,

					the man
From: sh666@selway.umt.edu (CRAZY NUTTY CRAZY)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Death Metal (or whatever) suggestions...
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:02:10 GMT
Organization: University of Montana

This may sound strange to some of you DM heads out there.. but
I kinda want to 'get in' to DM.  I'm not sure what is catogorized
as true DM but maybe someone out there can make some suggestions.
I am looking for something really _heavy_ with lots of crunch
and good riffs.  I'm not all that into songs about dismembering
little girls and satan, but if the music is good I guess I don't
really mind.  I am mostly from a punk/hardcore background.  But
some of my favorite bands are the Melvins, Sleep, etc.....
If most DM bands out there sound like Diecide (I heard one of
thier CDs once) then don't bother... I thought they sucked hard.
But if anyone can make any good suggestions then many, many,
many thanks in advance.....

							Dave
From: 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: No Classification!  Find another method!
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:08:00 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Nov18.202338.20399@meiko.com>, paull@plasma.co.uk (Paul Lee) writes:
> In article 12072@bsu-ucs, 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () writes:
>>> You left out one type, which might actually help you... Progressive.  There's
>>> even a newsgroup (alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive) for it.  I won't go into
>>> a long in-depth description of what progressive metal is - though I could,
>>> since I co-wrote the FAQ for the group. ;)  Queensryche (except most of their
>>> songs on "Empire") tends toward being progressive metal, as do groups like
>>> King's X, Fates Warning, Crimson Glory, and Dream Theater.
>>
>>YOu seem to have forgotten one of the original prog.rock groups
>>
>>RUSH...What about Yes?  C'mon...
>>
>>			-Matt
> 
> Rush and Yes are **NOT** progressive metal. They are progressive rock. Pink Floyd
> also belong in the progressive rock banner. Some of the early Rush stuff could be
> classed progressive metal I guess, but they are a prog-rock band.

If you see such distinct 'classification lines' between RUSH and Queensryche,
then i'd say you're WAY too into the classification of music.  Do you all worjk
for Musicland, or what?  Sure classification is useful if the music is
absolutely unavailabe, but...I dunno, call me a non-classifier.  :)

			-Matt
From: tphailey@eos.ncsu.edu (THOMAS PATRICK HAILEY)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Re: Definitions of different categories... IMHO.
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:56:26 GMT
Reply-To: tphailey@eos.ncsu.edu (THOMAS PATRICK HAILEY)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: tphailey@c00028-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu


>DM:Get obviously Possessed 7 churches.Not many ppl know abt this band and
>that Larry Lalonde played there.

I just saw the "best of" Possessed album the other day. It's called "Victims
of Death" for those of you who don't already know. It might be a good place
to start with this band. It's the first time I've seen it in a store, but I 
thought it was supposed to be out awhile back. Anyone know what's up with 
this?

TOMASS
From: maf10@po.CWRU.Edu (Moses A. Fridman)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: "Death Metal"
Date: 16 Nov 1992 02:41:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: maf10@po.CWRU.Edu (Moses A. Fridman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu




Death metal sucks.  Before you fill my hardisk with text files, though:
What do you call death metal?  My record club classifies U2 as hard
rock!  If you are interested in a good _grindcore_ band, Sepultura IMHO
is as good as they come.  Tight arrangements, good dynamics, good fast
songs, understandable lyrics (with some study of the lyric sheet... Max
Cavalera sounds better than Napalm Death, and Sepultura is Brazilian!)
and good lyrics.  True death metal, like Obituary, Carcass, and Napalm 
Death are whiplash fast, boring, not at all innovative, and are stuck
with different ways to say "Eating rotting intestines is fun", usually
by consulting a medical dictionary and a thesaurus.  The band Death is
not too bad, though, because they do innovate somewhat.  Kreator is 
a generic thrash band, not at all death, with songs about oppressive
society (yawn) and child abuse (Bringer of Torture).  I think that they
are boring.  

 

                               
                                                      Moses
   
-- 
 | |^\   /\   \   |   \   |   /| | |\   +--- \   | "Ask for thyself another
 | | / /    \ | \ |   | \/|  X | | | \  |--  | \ |  kingdom, for that which
 | | \ \____/ |  \|   |   | / \| | |__/ \___ |  \|  I leave is too small 
      \           |       |                      |  for thee"
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: death@buhub.bradley.edu (Dustin Slater)
Subject: Re: DRI, I didn't know they were still a band
Keywords: DRI, Band
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 02:27:31 GMT

In <1992Nov23.230616.19694@seq.uncwil.edu> hawks@seq.uncwil.edu (David Hawks) writes:

>		Anyone have any info on what DRI is up to these days?  I didn't know
>they were still a band but it looks like they will be coming here to 

I believe they just came out with a new album not too long ago.. though i
have no idea what the name is... anyone?

--
death@buhub.bradley.edu        INEVITABILE FATVM       death@camelot.bradley.edu

                    Before you see the light, you must DIE!
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: mheniff@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (heniff michael j jr)
Subject: Re: This Music-type casting argument
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:44:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.115335.5405@nntp.hut.fi> m38853v@saha.hut.fi (Matti Varis) writes:
>In article <BxxDCq.9v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mheniff@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (heniff michael j jr) writes:
>>What's with all this categorizing?  Why not set up two categories, good and 
>>bad?
>>
>Do you think it would work? Even the worst band in the world have some 
>fans out there who would not accept his fave band to be put in the
>category of _bad_ music
How about not setting up any definate categories at all because at these
categories are being set up, many groups fall into more than one category
at once or switch categorys with each new album.  So if you want, put it
in a category when you try to describe it but don't put permanent 
categories for each and every group.
Mike
Xref: sparky alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy:4435 alt.rock-n-roll.metal:11948
From: slayer@cislabs.pitt.edu (Deborah)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy,alt.rock-n-roll.metal
Subject: Re: Info on Megadeth/ST tour needed...
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:46:49 GMT
Followup-To: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy

>On that note, Does anyone know when Megadeth and ST are coming to Pittsburgh?
>
>Please?!
 
 Unfortunately. All I know is that they will be at Richfield Collisuem in 
 Cleveland on the 19th (Wednesday) nothing said about Pittsburgh yet..
 Keep listening to 97 Rock they will let you know if anything is being
 said about a trip to Pittsburgh.

 


-- 
May look a little young 
So what's wrong ?
You don't have to be old to be wise
From: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Battle Zone
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:30:08 GMT
Reply-To: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Organization: Columbia University

I just found out that Paul Di'anno's band Battlezone (before they changed their
name, or rather, extended it, to Paul DI'anno's Battlezone but otherwise same
members) released an album called, wow, BATTLEZONE, I guess also on Shatter 
Records. Can anyone tell me of the availablility of this album? I hear it's 
just as killer (bad pun, sorry) as CHILDREN OF MADNESS and MURDER ONE. Aside 
from LIVE PLUS ONE (a 1980? Iron Maiden EP released in Japan) it's the only
Paul Di'anno recording to my knowledge that I don't have.

philip
Philip Wang
E-mail at pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
"Though many a tortured night prevails thy Exorcisms shall but fail
While Crucifix doth burn my flesh I shall not yield to you unless I Die."
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: amgaudra@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alain M. Gaudrault)
Subject: Re: Death Metal (or whatever) suggestions...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:06:28 GMT

In article <11004@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> bcopelan@cs.strath.ac.uk (Barry Copeland TBS92) writes:
>
>As I probably haven't helped you, you could try to find the Peaceville Volume 4
>CD which is currently kicking about for around a fiver. It has over an hour of
>stuff on it rangeing from Techno-thrash to fast death to slow death to doom.

	This sounds interesting.  Where can this be ordered from?  The record
stores are here are pretty lame from what I've seen so far (I'm new in town),
so my best bet would be to order.  Is Peaceville a production company, and can
I order the CD direct?

So many albums, so little money,
						Big Al the Devil's Pal!!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:39:54 EST
From: <IBA100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Re: OverKill

I don't know how much truth there is to this, but i heard (don't ask from where
) that the new album is recorded and is in the lengthy mixing process
I'd call that good news!!!
From: 5ea8manchest@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: TROUBLE bootleg
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:34:12 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5ea8manchest@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

Does anybody know how to get ahold of a concert bootleg by Trouble that
was recorded in 1983 in Aurora, Illinois?  i read in a mag a few years
back that this was supposed to be one of the best metal bootleg albums/
tapes ever, but I've never encountered anyone whose heard a copy.  Also,
if someone has heard this album, I would appreciate knowing what songs 
are on it, etc., and how much of it is stuff that never made it to the 
studio for recording.  Thanks.
From: ben@ics.com (Benjamin Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Heavy Heavy Metal
Keywords: Metal
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:24:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc.


Recently on a buiseness trip to London I found myself browsing the multitude of metal fanzines....

I am starting a CD Collection of thrash albums.  I am clueless.  Please some boby out there in net-land fill me in.  Please post your responses to this group, for as I am such a popular guy my mail box is full (joke).  I would love to see some good stuff posted.  

Thanks all!
Organization: Sophomore, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy,alt.rock-n-roll.metal
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:37:58 -0500 
From: Raphael Joseph Streiff <rs88+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Info on Megadeth/ST tour needed...

On that note, Does anyone know when Megadeth and ST are coming to Pittsburgh?

Please?!


Anyone?!!
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Left out Progressive (was Re: This Music-type casting argument)
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:07:39 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest

ainsi@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Robert Bristol) writes:

>	Pop Metal:  Van Halen, Queensryche (I love 'em, but they go here if at 
>	            all), Poison, etc.

You left out one type, which might actually help you... Progressive.  There's
even a newsgroup (alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive) for it.  I won't go into
a long in-depth description of what progressive metal is - though I could,
since I co-wrote the FAQ for the group. ;)  Queensryche (except most of their
songs on "Empire") tends toward being progressive metal, as do groups like
King's X, Fates Warning, Crimson Glory, and Dream Theater.

-Shag

-- 
Shag                    | Operator, ShagNET | Editor of "Screaming in Digital" 
birchall@pilot.njin.net |  Rutgers / NJIN   |  The Queensryche E-mail Digest 
birchall@njin.bitnet    | dialup access for | queensryche-owner@pilot.njin.net
shag@most.other.places  | Burlington County | Anything Queensryche, every week
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: m38853v@saha.hut.fi (Matti Varis)
Subject: Re: This Music-type casting argument
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:12:32 GMT

Just adding my two cents...

Michael  writes:

>	Not like a particularly subscribe the school which feels a need for 
>a division between musical types I will add my two cents to this argument:
>
>	Pop Metal:  Van Halen, Queensryche (I love 'em, but they go here if at 
>	            all), Poison, etc.

   Just cannot accept Queensryche to be classified as a pop metal band.
They go to the heavy metal plot as well as WASP.

>	Heavy Metal: WASP, Metallica, Megadeth, etc. Anything on the radio
>	             a lot but faster than the crotchrock bands.

   I don't think heavy metal is necessarily 'faster than the crotchrock
bans', like the title says, they are HEAVIER. WASP ain't no a bit faster
than Van Halen as far as I know.

>	Speed Metal: Anthrax, Slayer, etc.  Fast, fast, but with a lot of bass 
>	   	     and other low, deep notes/tones/etc.
>	Doom Metal: Don't really know what I've listened to that'd go here 
>		    (except Vengence Rising). Reall low (bass), sloooow tempo,
>		    etc.  That type of stuff.

   Well, don't you listen to Black Sabbath? At least early Sabbath albums
(and Candlemass, early Judas Priest) are IMHO doom metal.

   Cannot say much about the rest, because I don't actually listen those
bands very much.

...

>	That's my two cents.  I don't subscribe by this, but I feel it is 
>	useful when trying to give someone else and idea of a bands sound.
>	That's the only time I think it should be used.
>	NOT to ridicule someone for their taste.  Wait 'till you heard the
>	band before doing that.  But when you do, and you still hate it,
>	Hell, flame 'em all you want.  Opinions count.  
>	I guess this means I can be held responsible for my choices about.
>	
>	OK.  Go at it!!!
>
>	-Later
>
> 

                                -Mat

      Gardens of nocturne    B       
      Forbidden delights      O
      Reigns of steel          Cities on Flames
      And it's alright
From: alpet@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alex Petrushko)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: Re: This Music-type casting argument
Date: 19 Nov 1992 01:32:20 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <1ebse1INNgmq@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ainsi@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Robert Bristol) writes:
>
>	Not like a particularly subscribe the school which feels a need for 
>a division between musical types I will add my two cents to this argument:
>
>	Pop Metal:  Van Halen, Queensryche (I love 'em, but they go here if at 
>	            all), Poison, etc.
>	Thrash:  I define this as the type of music where the drum beats get
>	         ahead of the rest of it,  like the music is always trying to 
>		 catch up with the percussion.  It usually is as fast as Death
>		 or Speed metal but there is almost NO BASS.  Real tinny sound.
>
> 

First of all, Queensryche is Progressive Metal, if you want to categorize them right.
Second of all, thrash has VERY HEAVY and FAST BASS! If you would ever listen to Kreator,
Anthrax's early albums, Sodom or Violent Force or Dark Angel, you would probably hear a hell
of a bass. Where did you get that thrash has no bass?


Renegade.









  






-- 
"I know that I work for Time-Warner, one of the main purveyors of evil
 in the universe.  The way I see it, sometimes you have to rot the
 infrastructure from within." -Al Jourgensen
From: math1rb@elroy.uh.edu (92F07486)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
Subject: "Jesus Christ Pose".....a twist
Date: 16 Nov 1992 08:37 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Someone posted last week, wanting to know the meaning of the song. Well
I guess that he (Chris Cornell) is criticizing himself as much as anyone
else. On the back of the LOUDER THAN LIVE video, Mr. Cornell himself is
in the infamous Morrison-Christ-like pose. Any thoughts?


************************************************************************
**                            **                                      **
**   David C. Meyers          **  "I'm looking California,            **
**                            **    and feeling Minnesota..."         **
**   MATH1RB@JETSON.UH.EDU    **                  - Cornell           **
**                            **                                      **
************************************************************************


Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: djs55750@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (the man )
Subject: Re: symphony gristle mix%%%:::
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:26:58 GMT

IBA100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>As i posted a long while ago, the gristle mix of Symphony of Destruction is
>now available to the general public on the cassette version of the single.
>(sadly, Breakpoint is not) anyway, i love the remix version almost more than
>the original (being a big ministry fan!).  Anyway, i read here that Megadeth
>was going to remix and re-release the entire album.  I've not heard anything
>about it since. So, any new info would be very helpful to me and to the many
>Megadeth fans on Alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy.

I thought that I heard a rumor that Nine Inch Nails was going to remix the
whole Countdown album...anyone?  Also, I heard that Al Jourgensen is going to
produce Metallica's next album..anyone?  And lastly, what ius this gristle
mix..just a remix of Symphony?  Is there a new Symphony single out, or is
this the same one that came out before "Foreclosure"...I have no clue as to
what is going on... :(

						the man