From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)
Subject: [Info] Visa Application in China/Irregularities with Chinese Airlines
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:00:13 GMT

The following is carried in August 22's CND-US:

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4. Letters from Readers: Irregularities with Chinese Airlines;
                         Visa Application in China ..................... 125
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From: Aubrey J. Zhang, <JTZhang@UNCAMULT.BITNET>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1992

I am a Chinese student at the University of Calgary in Canada.  From July 20
to August 16, I was in China for a home-touring trip after my four-year's
living out of the Motherland.

In early July I bought an Air China's return ticket through Canada Swan
International Travel Ltd. at Vancouver.  As Canada Swan mailed the ticket to
me, they reminded me of having to confirm my return flight at least 72 hours
(three days) ahead of departure.

I did as they advised, FOUR DAYS ahead when I was in Shanghai.  Strange
enough, my seat was already cancelled by the time I confirmed it.  I was
very mad, as everyone could understand it when this thing happened.  I
argued with them, but they had a "good" excuse well prepared for me: my
travel agent made a mistake; they should have told me that the return flight
should be confirmed at least 7 days in stead of 72 hours ahead.  When I
phoned my travel agent after I got back, they told me they just passed what
Air China had instructed and they had no control over this.

Since I was eager to come back and I knew I would miss my connecting flight
(Canadian) at Vancouver if I postponed this one, I went to the Shanghai
International Airport anyway on the pre-scheduled date (August 16).  I had a
hope that the plane would not be full as it was not one month ago or someone
who had a seat would miss the plane as I had the luck four years ago when I
left China the first time.

But all my hopes went into the air when I got to the airport.  I thought I
was the only one who had the bad luck, but I was wrong, I was totally wrong.
After the check-in was finished, I saw at least 20 people there waiting for
seats (I think I know the reason why the Airlines did this to us and
everyone who read the last part of my story will figure it out).  Some of
these people confirmed the flight as I did but was told cancelled; some of
them didn't do that at all, they never dreamed of that outcome and they and
their many relatives were deeply shocked.  Some of them are Canadians (not
Canadian Chinese); some are students like me.

While we were waiting for the normal check-in to be finished, I chatted with
a white man standing beside me: "How do you like your stay in China?"  He
shrugged in a typical American way: "It was OK except this part."  He is
Carl from Vancouver (I forgot his long family name).

As the normal check-in got to the near end, those of us who didn't have
seats started to get very upset.  We frequently asked the girl at the
check-in counter whether she got any seat left.  Her answer was a sure "no."
At this moment, a fourty-or-so man standing behind the girl, probably the
girl's supervisor, got very excited. "Listen!", he said, "those of you who
don't have a seat, please be smart.  If you pay 2,796 FEC (Note: about $600
Canadian), I promise you'll get a ticket of the business class.  Otherwise
... we don't have a single seat for you.  You got it? Those who pay will get
your luggage checked-in immediately."

Some of us who knew the trick got very angry.  They started to argue: "It is
ridiculous.  You've got some seats left, why don't you let us aboard the
plane.  We won't pay more.  It is you that cancelled our flight, you are
responsible for this."  Some said: "If the same thing happened in North
America or Europe, we would be offered a business class seat without any
further charge." The male officer seemed to get quite used to these
arguments: "Don't you ever dare to debate on this!  This is China, not a
foreign country.  We do things our way."

A student-like young man beside me shouted: "I have to go to work tomorrow,
just tell me where to pay the money."  He seemed to have enough cash for
doing that.  I saw no use to join the argument, I followed him shortly.  But
I did not have enough cash.  I already used it all -- like most other
people.  But I happened to have my MasterCard with me.

When I got back to check in, there were still about five people at the
counter arguing with the male officer.  Now he had jumped out from behind
the counter and pointed his fingers at each one's nose: "You want to go?
Then pay the money and we'll let you go.  Don't you dare to say anything."
I thought his manner of pushing us was much worse than that of a peddler
selling things on the street.  What do you say, my fellow Chinese?  The only
thing I could think of was that the people of my motherland just wanted me
to have more "good" impressions about China.

I wouldn't believe what I described above if I hadn't experienced it in
person.  I hope Air China and China Eastern Airlines will eliminate such a
bad practice or they would for sure loose their credits and all their
customers -- there's no doubt about that.

For those who still want to go with Air China, I recommend you to learn from
my lesson and confirm your return flight as long as you get to China and
reconfirm it at least 7 days ahead of departure.  For those to confirm in
Shanghai, please call 327-3016 or 327-7888 (no one told me these numbers
before).  For those in other cities, check your local phone book or ask your
travel agent.  Good luck.
			       ___  ___  ___

From: Daniel Yang, <S9874194@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1992

I feel that what INTER-L reported on visa applications in China (CND-US 
8/21/92) is quite different from my experience.

The article mentioned that Visa Officers would look for English proficiency.
In fact, I-20 form does not indicate a student's TOEFL grade (nor GRE, GMAT
or other grades). When I went to the embassy in Beijing, the officer even
did not speak English with me. He spoke perfect Chinese. A lot of friends
who went to the embassy before me, told me that they did not like the
students who cockly speak English. They knew that most Chinese students did
not speak fluent English no matter how high their TOEFL scores were.  When I
went to the embassy, they did not even ask me whether I would go back to
China. I spent only one minute there if not less. I think the qualification,
time, sources of financial factors mentioned in the above article are
important. The most important thing is the confidence and seriousness. If a
student is confident or he is not afraid of being denied, he will most
likely being admitted. The more you fear being denied, the more likely you
will be denied. If you are too serious of coming to the US, you will also
very possibly being denied. If you can show that you just want to take the
chance, you do not necessarily HAVE TO go to the US, you will most likely
get the chance.

I came here four years ago. I was admitted to a Master Degree program in a
small school, much less famous than the school I went in China. I had worked
four years before I came to the States. I guess all of these are factors.
But as I said, if you are not confident, you are sure that you will be shaky
and you would be able to speak a complete sentence in CHINESE confidently,
you'd better not go there. 

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