From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: control
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:27:40 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Sep10.205019.2032@nwnexus.WA.COM> jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
#In article <nyikos.715899847@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
##In <1992Sep5.102619.11915@rigel.econ.uga.edu> mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills) writes:
##
###CONTRACEPTIONN IS BESIDE THE POINT!! Abortion "prior to the end of the 5th
###week" is basically beside the point also, since paltry few women know
###that they are pregnant by that time,
##
##If so, sex education has done a lousy job of teaching about menstrual
##cycles and pregnancy tests, and about the desirability of EARLY abortions.
##
#
#I hate to burst your bubble, but even if a woman KNOWS she is pregnant at
#5 weeks (that's three weeks post-conception), no test can be reliably 
#performed at that time.  Therefore, a doctor can't perform an abortion
#because he could be accused of performing an abortion on a non-pregnant
#woman.  Would you prefer that doctors not require pregnancy tests to
#confirm a pregnancy prior to an abortion?  I think not.  

Well, no, Jennifer, there are highly sensitive blood tests that
can confirm very early pregnancies.  (I think as early as a
few days after conception, but I know that it is certainly
before three weeks.)

Abortions are not commonly performed before 7 weeks because the
embryo is so tiny that the procedure could result in a 
missed abortion.  (In other words, most of the uterine contents
will be removed, but the fetus itself will remain.)  Women who
have very early abortions must have another pregnancy test a
few weesk later to confirm that the abortion was complete, and
the tissue removed is examined microscopically, as well.

Nyikos' time limit is an excellent argument for RU-486.

##I would expect a lot of women have made their minds up, even before
##having intercourse, that if they get pregnant, they'll abort.
#
#Well, you're wrong in your "expectation".  Most women think it over
#very carefully before deciding--either on abortion or continuing a
#pregnancy.

This consideration could take place before the woman learns of
a pregnancy, though.  However, see below.

##This is a bogus argument.  What's a 24 hour waiting period compared to 
##5 weeks?
#
#You are assuming that a woman knows for 5 weeks.  This is not true.
#There are very few women, if any, who know two weeks prior to conception
#that they will absolutely become pregnant at that time.  The absolute
#soonest a woman could possibly know would be at conception.  She's already
#two weeks gone already!  And as I stated before, she couldn't possibly tes
#t positive with absolute assurance at 5 weeks.

I agree that very few women will know that they are pregnant within
Nyikos' time limit.  Many women do not exhibit any signs of pregnancy
that early on.  The blood test that I mentioned above is useless if
you have no idea that you are pregnant.  It is also not a test that
you can do at home, or have done at a so-called "Crisis Pregnancy
Center."  It's not as inexpensive as a urine test.

I don't know how many women would suspect that they are pregnant 
if their period was a week late.  Lots of teenagers have irregular
periods - one week is not an alarming delay for them.


[text deleted]

Susan