From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: COVINGTON CROSS)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:25:46 GMT

Many of the "bad English accents" people make fun of in _Robin Hood_ sound
a whole lot like Cheshire accents, from the land of the hard rounded "r".
This critique of accents reminds me of the Dundonian at Pennsic XIX who was
told somewhat brusquely to drop the pathetic attempt at a Scottish accent
because he didn't do it well (i.e., it didn't sound Glaswegian).

In article <4ebWUNW00WBKM1TYxz@andrew.cmu.edu> Bill Thomas <bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Help me out a little here, you medieval historians, but in a show about
>14th century English knights, the majority of characters would have
>primarily spoken NORMAN FRENCH. The knights would have been the
>descendants of William the Conqueror's Norman cronies, who swarmed into
>England after Hastings, built castles to defend themselves against the
>general populace, and continued their marauding, horse-riding Norman
>ways.

This is a nice point of linguistics.  If the show is meant to be set during
the reign of Edward III, then it is entirely likely that they would have been
speaking Middle English at home, and Anglo-Norman at court.  

Hic pompet Aryk:

Of course, if this Sir Thomas Grey was meant to represent one of the Thomas
Greys of Heton, then they would be speaking the Northern Dialect of Middle
English, which is quite distinct from the Southern Dialect, as a comparative
reading of _Piers Ploughman_ and the _Canterbury Tales_ would show.

End of pomp.

Bill's point
does highlight an important point:  they wouldn't have been speaking modern
Oxbridge.  On the other hand, in any modern English depiction of the Middle
Ages, the noblemen are supposed to speak the same upper-class English as their
Roman forbears.  The lower classes are supposed either to speak in Cockney
accents (for bad guys) or American accents (for good guys).

I am minded of that wonderful Robin Hood movie with Patrick Bergin in which
a point was made of distinguishing by accent not only between Normans (played
by a German and a Dutchman) and upper-class Anglo-Saxons (played by an English-
man and an Irishman), but also between the outlaws from Yorkshire and Notting-
hamshire.

And we know that the Romans spoke Oxbridgian because we've all seen
_I Claudius_, which also lent its dialects to _Masada_

The point is that the American ear expects certain things of upper-class
Englishmen.  This is based not on the linguistics of England in the 13th
or 14th century, but on the way Basil Rathbone spoke.

>Which brings us back to Robin Hood and Kevin Costner. In most Robin Hood
>legends, Robin is a member of the pre-William nobility (so his father
>would not have had a castle, by the way -- a Norman "innovation"), who
>became a sort of anti-Norman guerrilla. 

Before the 16th century, Robin Hood was clearly a yeoman.  When the Robin
Hood ballads caught on amongst the English upper classes, he became a
disposessed nobleman.  Not until Sir Walter Scott got hold of him did he
become a Saxon patriot.  And the Romans would have been very impressed
to hear that castles were a "Norman" innovation in England.  The Anglo-
Saxons would have been surprised too.

Very bottom line:  Americans obviously expect certain accents from their
mediaeval characters, and Covington Cross did not successfully deliver.

Aryk Nusbacher