HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Return-Receipt-To: wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 08:46:58 EDT
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Subject:      Cannot access ftp archives?
X-To:         deaf-l%siucvmb.bitnet@uunet.uu.net

There was a problem with the ftp archive site at "handicap.shel.isc-br.com"
which I had mentioned in a posting to DEAF-L in the past week.
Anyone trying to access this site would get error messages such
as "no such host" or "host unreachable".  These problems should
be all fixed so feel free to try again.

name: handicap.shel.isc-br.com    ip=129.189.4.184

                                Bill McGarry
                                (203) 337-1518

UUCP:       {oliveb, philabs, decvax, yale}!bunker!wtm
INTERNET:   wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
BITNET:     l-hcap@ndsuvm1.bitnet
Fidonet:    The Handicap News BBS (141/420)   1-203-337-1607
            (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 09:12:50 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: intro

Lew....

Let me tell you something... I DO *KNOW* that I'm the only Deaf person on
campus, and you are thinking, "How?"  Here's the answer: I am a client of
the Rehab Services and I know the supervisor of rehab *VERY* well and I asked
them, who uses interpreters (that is one thing to make a distinction between
Deaf and ORAL people) and as of this semester, I *AM* the only person (of
students) to use interpreters!!!!! This is unbelievable to me because U of
Illinois has an interpreting program for Deaf students (by the way, I also
know that five deaf students have applied to U of I and requested interpreters
and so far, one of the five, has decided to come here in the fall) and the
Rehab center also has other resource materials for Deaf students, but the
thing about most Deaf students, they want to go to a school where there are
other Deaf students.  Now, don't take me wrong. I am not putting them down
for doing that, I understand it is hard to go on when you don't really have
another person, a good friend, to talk with on a daily basis, unless you
really enjoy having minimal daily conversations and also enjoy being alone.
Back to the point, my point is that AS of this semester, I am the ONLY Deaf
student at U of I who uses interpreters in classes.  Why should you say
otherwise, *YOU* are NOT even HERE!!! True, maybe when you were here, there
were more Deaf students.  You were fortunate to have that. I HOPE I can be
as fortunate next year, as you were when you were here.

				Yad doog a evah,

				David (djk59109@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)

	P.S. Notice that this concerns STUDENTS, not administrators or
		professors, or other workers of the university.  I don't
		know about them, though I know several Deaf people who
		work for the University (their jobs do not require an
		interpreter on a daily basis). So, I am speaking about
		STUDENTS only!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:54:53 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      intro

David --

     Your perspective is even narrower than I thought it was.
     Both Lisamarie and I (and probably most or all of the people on the
list) thought you were saying in your original message that you were the
only audiologically deaf student at the U of I.
     In your first message, you said:

> Don't be afraid of being deaf, be proud
> because your accomplishments would stand out and you would make the image
> of a deaf person look much better in a hearing world!

     There are a lot of hearing people on this list. If you want to improve
the image of deaf people in their eyes, what was the point of your highly
selective "I am the only Deaf student who uses interpreters"?
     Wouldn't it have had a lot more impact on the image of deaf people
(and made the person who posted the original intro feel more confident) if
you had said "There are 75 (or whatever) deaf students at the University of
Illinois in Champaign-Urbana"?
     Therefore, can you tell us why you think it is more admirable for you
to be the only culturally Deaf student who uses interpreters, rather than
being one of a number of audiologically deaf students? Can you tell us why
you think your accomplishments are more admirable than those deaf students
who are not culturally Deaf?

     Also:

> True, maybe when you were here, there
> were more Deaf students.  You were fortunate to have that.

     Why do you assume that I needed to be with them? As it so happens, I
didn't know any of them. I was quite fortunate to have many good hearing
friends.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Linguistics Dept, U-145, UCONN, Storrs CT 06269
X-Acknowledge-To: <CROMANO@UCONNVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:47:19 EST
From:         christine romano <CROMANO@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Seeing your own messages..
              10 Apr 1992 21:14:50 CDT from <kwatt%hrtr1.span%Fe
              dex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov@SDSC>

The command for seeing your own messages should be sent to the
listserv address, and it should include only the line:
set deaf-l repro
Christine
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Orig-To: DEAF
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:41:13 CDT
From:         ANTHONY GIEGLER <GIEGLER@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      APOLOGY

Sorry about forgetting my signnature on the last message.

Anthony R. (tony) Giegler

<GIEGLER@USMCP6.BITNET>           StarGazer
agiegler@seabass.st.usm.edu        puppycat
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: eisaksson@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Text telephones & why so many adult deaf in the U.S.
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:32:45 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

The term "text telephone" might actually be preferable to "TDD" as it is
shorter, more self-explanatory and more widely in use. At least in 
Finland and Scandinavia we have now had these "TT"s for more than a decade. 
   I remember seeing an American TTD for the first time. It was so very small
compared to our big machines with computer monitors! Those text telephones we
use in Finland are quite expensive and it can be difficult to obtain one. In
principle, you don't buy one yourself, but apply your municipal authorities for
one. 
   There is just one TT relay centre in Finland. It can only handle phone calls
in Finnish and in Swedish - the Telecommunications authorities claim that
the Finnish deaf do not need better service...
   
   By the way - can someone explain this statistics to me: someone told me that 
in the U.S., a larger part of the deaf community have been "deafened" as adults
than here in Northern Europe. How can this be true? Does U.S.A. have a
different definition for who is deaf and who is only hard of hearing? In
Finland *I* am classified as "very hard of hearing" but when I have been over
to the U.S., I've been perceived as deaf by Americans. 
  Any suggestions??
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:07:20 EDT
Comments:     <Parser> W: Field "Resent-To:/To:" duplicated. Last occurrence
              was retained.
From:         shtemper@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Purge at MIT; thousands unaccounted for. Film at 11.
X-To:         suspects@mc.lcs.mit.edu

This isn't really Stuart H. Temper; this is Seth Gordon, formerly
<sethg@athena.mit.edu>.

Sometime on or after 6 April 1992, my Athena account was deactivated,
because I am no longer a student and I had not provided Athena's
managers with any other excuse for holding on to an account.

Since I am still involved with a number of MIT organizations,
including the Student Information Processing Board, there is a good
chance that I will get my account restored.  In the meantime, I must
take a vacation from the Net.  I will inform y'all as soon as I am
reconnected.

I wish I had about a week's notice before this happened, so that I
could unsubscribe gracefully from all my lists before the axe fell.
Unfortunately, although the wizards at Project Anathema can
automatically purge old accounts, they have chosen not to
automatically send e-mail to the same people warning that those
accounts are about to be purged.  My apologies to those who were
swamped by bounced mail.

(I just wish I could send this message to *all* the mailing lists I'm
subscribed to, but I haven't memorized the other lists' addresses, and
I can't access my mail alias file, for obvious reasons....)

--Seth Gordon  +1 617 566 5692  (try <sethg@gnu.ai.mit.edu> if you must)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: lgolden@jarthur.claremont.edu (Lynn Golden)
Subject: interviews wanted
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:09:01 GMT

My name is Lynn Golden, and I am doing a research paper on the education of
Deaf children.  I was wondering if anyone would be willing to be interviewed
over the computer about their early education.  I need interviews with both
moderately and severely hearing impaired people, so if you would be willing,
please send me e-mail.

I will keep all names confidential, and the paper will not be read by anyone
except my prof.

I would be really grateful for any assistance.

--
Lynn Golden
lgolden@Jarthur.Claremont.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: BITNET%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:52:34 -0400
From:         How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck
              wood? <WAW0026@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Signature

Don't we have better things to do than worry about signatures?  Good LORD.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-ST-Vmsmail-To: DEAFL
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:14:50 CDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
From:         "Keith Watt: 205-544-4669TTY - AL RELAY: 800-548-2547V"
              <kwatt%hrtr1.span%Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov@SDSC.BITNET>
Subject:      Seeing your own messages..

Hi guys, a quickie here (yes, I'm still alive..) -

Not everyone's system will even ask for CC: (mine for instance, though I
can configure it to do so).  Christine is right, there is a qualifier you
can add to the SUBSCRIBE command sent to LISTSERV so that you will receive
a copy of your messages sent from DEAF-L itself, not from your own system.
I remember Roy mentioning it last summer., but I don't remember the format
either.  I don't get copies of my posts, but I don't really need them.

Roy, could you repost that command?

Keith
(cwatt@nasamail.nasa.gov)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:48:51 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Lane on Lane
X-To:         deaf-l@siucvmb.BITNET, lane@northeastern.edu

Lane on Lane:

     The issue isn't whether you quoted and paraphrased someone else's view
on deaf/hearing marriages. The issue is whether this reflected your own
view.
     You said in your introduction that you believed a written history
should have a position or point of view, so your book was admittedly
partisan. Your position on Alexander Graham Bell is that he was the devil
incarnate, and you aggressively attacked his Memoir. You quoted and
paraphrased Dudley George for this purpose.
     Are you now trying to claim that George's view, which you used to
rebut Bell's view (which you oppose), in a book which you say is written
from your point of view, does not in fact reflect your point of view?
     That's awfully hard to swallow.

     As for your not having strong opinions on how deaf people should
marry: that's a red herring. Nobody said anything about how DEAF people
should marry.
     This whole thing is about the attitude of HEARING people toward the
deaf. You rebutted Bell's position by paraphrasing George:

>  Hearing persons willing to marry someone deaf are commonly inferior
>  to their spouse morally, socially, or intellectually, or seek the
>  alliance for reasons other than love.

     According to your book, you, as a hearing person, apparently agree
that no hearing person in his right mind would marry a deaf person.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Saturday, 11 Apr 1992 16:15:45 EDT
From: Jim McIntosh <jim@american.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Seeing your own messages..

In article <DEAF-L%92041021493270@SIUCVMB.BITNET>, christine romano
<CROMANO@UCONNVM.BITNET> says:
>The command for seeing your own messages should be sent to the
>listserv address, and it should include only the line:
>set deaf-l repro

Christine is correct. If you are on an IBM VM/CMS system, type:

     TELL LISTSERV AT SIUCVMB SET DEAF-L REPRO

If you are on a DEC VMS system, type:

     SEND LISTSERV@SIUCVMB SET DEAF-L REPRO
---
Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:36:26 PDT
From:         "Hatzigeorgiu" <nickolas@PHYSICS.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: INTRO

I was always ammazed with people who are proud (!) just
because they are deaf and thus "different". I am deaf too
so I share the pride, right? And imagine if I had an auto-accident
and, say, my hands were cut off. Then I would be doubly proud
because I would probably be the only person in the world
deaf and without hands and a student in a University!!!
;-(((

Stephen Hawking, the physicist, is proud not because of
his disability but because of his achievements. That's
the path we should follow and not the silliness of
"we are different, so let's be proud".

Nick Hatzigeorgiu, UCLA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 13:36:30 CDT
From:         BARRY BERGEN <BERGEN@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hello to you too, Barry

Randy,

Thanks very much for all the suggestions.  I beginning to think that I won't go
 out of my way to order videos from Gallaudet, since I'm going to be there and
start ASL training in 6 weeks anyway.  But the book suggestions may be very
 very useful.  From what little reading I've done, I would think that ASL
 would be ideal, rather than Signed Exact English, though I can see why one
might want to know both.  Having learned a few foreign languages  (although
 only French very well), I'm not at all daunted by the prospect of mastering
another syntex and/or grammar.  That's what learning a new language is all
about.

Thanks again for the suggestions.  Barry Bergen (bergen@ricevm1.rice.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:32:14 EDT
From:         "Stephen J. Kotchen" <CASK%CATCC.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      RE: A.G. Bell on TV
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

      I am interested in seeing that t.v. program and I hoped you have
recorded that t.v. program. If so, pls contact me.  I have heard all
one side about him and that t.v. shows people other side.  I am
interested to see other side about him, thank you

--Stephen Kotchen


> Someone have noted the canadian program on A.G.Bell life in america ? I have
> watched the first part yesterday, and I will watch the next part tonight since
> I am a canadian.
> I really enjoyed the portrayal of that man,he did know sign language !And I wa
> a bit surprised since I find the man portryed in a much sympathetic way. I hav
> read "When the mind hear" from Lane, and he only show the really bad sides of
> Bell. But the man was first really found of his deaf mother, and he really
> wanted to help the deaf children. He was a great mind of his times, and I know
> he disliked the concept of Deaf culture but, I must say I find he have some
> good sides too!
> Personnaly, I met Lane at the "Deaf Way" in Washington, and I really didn't
> understand why Deaf people think of him as almost a "god" ! I don't even know
> if he know ASL since all his speechs was interpreted by ASL interpreters.
> I did find him a bit arrogant, and didn't think of him as a warm man.
> He surely approach the concept of deafness with an original way, and I must sa
> I can second most of his reasonings, but he is a bit to hard on some people
> that donpt think like him, and that, I don't really like.
> I am all for the Deaf culture and I am always ready to defend it, but, don't w
> also have to respect people who did try to improve the life of the Deaf, and I
> know a lot of people think that Bell only made mistakes, but I am not sure any
> more that he was only evil for the Deaf.But, I didn't see the second part, I
> can always change my mind again...
> Fot the new one on the list that don't know me, I became deaf, and know ASL an
> LSQ ( our sign language here in the province of Quebec), I speak, lipread and
> always try to learn all that can help me communicate with everybody. But yes,
> find that the deaf kids have the right to learn a sign language that can help
> them grasp the meaning of language..
> Take care everyone,
> Mireille Caissy, Montreal, Quebec ( Can), M104540@UQAM.Bitnet.Ca
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: rggentry@galluj
Subject: Re: j1w@icf., here's your friend
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:52:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.092134.19094@icf.hrb.com>, j1w@icf.hrb.com (J. Douglas Works) writes:
> Hey everyone:
> 
>     I'm looking for a young woman at Gallaudet University named 
> Tamisha Hammond.  Can anyone help by giving me an E-mail address???  
> She's an old friend from summer camp.
>
>> Doug, her username at Gallaudet is 11THAMMOND. 

There are three nodes at Gallaudet: gallua, galluj, and gallux. She is probably
on galluj, like most people here. Contact her, then, at 11THAMMOND@galluj

Give her a little time to respond...folks are leaving for Easter and finals are
rapidly approaching.

If you don't raise her on galluj, then try gallua....and I know you'll never
get her on gallux, which is reserved for various research projects, etc.

Happy VAXing!

Randy Gentry rggentry@galluj "Anything that can be done, can be done
backwards." 
>     					Thanks!
> 
>     					Doug
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, +
> +	to gain what he cannot lose."	        +
> + 						+
> + 	|			- Jim Elliot    +
> +     -----				        +
> + 	|					+
> + 	|		j1w@icf.hrb.com		+
> +						+
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:50:05 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: bit.listserv.deaf-l

Mr. Gentry,

One word... "Thanks!" You made my day!!!!

> Not these worthless arguments you start that go on for days
> until people just give up trying to have an honest dialogue.

This is soooo true.  I tried to make my statements more clear, but Lew
kept on beating me so I gave up (notice, I have not posted any more letters
on this topic because I am truly sick of getting "You are wrong in your
thinking, I am right..." postings from Lew.  I have been waiting for this
day to happen, for this peculiar message to be written... Lew, heed this
man's words and try to ACCEPT other people's opinions, don't try to force
them to change to your opinions, eventhough it might be for the better, but
if people don't want to change their opinions to be similar to your
opinions, just LEAVE it alone and concentrate in the issue at hand. This
is a network to discuss opinions, I re-emphasize the word "discuss",  not
"slander".  So, instead of alienating people, such as me, try to be more
acceptable of what other people think.  This is a democracy (is it?? That's
beyond the point here...) and people have the right to form a variety of
opinions and speak of them if they desire to do so. I know I criticized
Anthony on his statement of being afraid of losing his hearing. That was
my mistake and I am making a public apology for doing that. I do honesly
apologize to Anthony for putting him down, when I had no right to do that,
for having a difference of opinion than I have about being deaf.  I
understand the fears and I respect his opinion. I am going to be watching
what I say from now on and making sure I don't cross the fine line between
slandering a person for the opinion he/she has on a topic and discussing
why that opinion would or would not be similar to mine... and so on.
I hope this is extended to all those that I have offended in the past.
I also apologize to these people too.  I did not have the intention of
offending these people and never will have the intention of doing that
in the future. I am truly sorry.

				Hope this makes things better for
					the future...

				David (djk59109@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
From: finley0768@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: galludet thanks
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:39:05 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

I would just like to extend my thanks to whom ever sent me the information on
Graduate Admissions at Galludet.  I got the packet today and I really do
appreciate it...
                                     Thank You. :)
                                   Annmarie Rose Finley

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: BERGEN@ricevm1.rice.edu (BARRY BERGEN)
Subject: Hello.
Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:12:39 GMT

Hello.  I've just discovered deaf-l.  And just in time, I suppose, since I'm
 about to move to Washington to begin teaching European history at Gallaudet.
I have very limited exposure to ASL and Deaf culture, though my training begins
in June.  I've been perusing messages to see what interests and issues are of
concern to people here.  I'd be happy to entertain any suggestions about what
to read to get some good beginning insights into deaf culture.  I followed with
some interest the criticisms of Harlan Lane's book, which has been recommended
to me.  And I also would be interested in any videos which are good for
 learning sign--I'm more concerned about visual receptivity than anything else
at this point.

Looking forward to hearing from any friendly folk out there.   Yes, I am
 hearing, but...I wouldn't be taking the job if I wasn't interested in Deaf
Culture.

Barry Bergen
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU