HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rouskov@CS.ColoState.EDU (yordan rouskov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Milk price
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:06:30 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department
Originator: rouskov@CS.ColoState.EDU


Penio writes:
|> 
|> There is one very fast way to leagalise the export of Your money, but
|> I guess, that it works only for the official BGL 10,000 equvalent. Go
|> to any exchange bureau, say that You want a certificate, that You have
|> bought the money from them, and they'll cell it to You for the price
|> of the difference between their cell/buy rates, multiplied by the
|> ammount. This equivalent to selling an buying the currency.
|> 
|> One thing is sure - the _controll_ in Bulgaria got less, but I have
|> not heard the "Zakon za sdelkites walutni cennosti i walutniq kontrol"
|> to have been denounced. You can in principle go to jail for possessing
|> illegal currency more that BGL 100 (<USD 5). Ok, my info is 4 month
|> stale.
|> 
|> -- Penio
|> 
If you want to take money (legally) out of the country you can buy
$ (unlimited quantities) from any private exchange bureau. After that
go to First Private Bank and ask them for a check. Usually they'll tell you
that there are no available traveller checks, but the American Express checks
can also do the job. The only inconvinience is that you'll have to wait for
a couple of days before the check can be cashed. You'll have to pay 5$ for
each check.

Best Regards to all and happy X-mas and New Year
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: pvgunm@lacerta.unm.edu (Peter V. Gadjokov)
Subject: Re: MILK PRISE
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 03:15:20 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility

However diagreeable I find the term 'crackpot', recently used to describe
ANTHC@CUNYVM.BITNET I'm afraid I'd have to agree with that description.
I responded to several of his early articles, and as a result he accused me
of being a clever communist who has escaped to the west with truckloads
of money. I don't intend to bore the readers of s.c.s with biographical 
facts in order to prove the contrary. What is important though, is that
he never responded to any of my arguments, but merely sought to discredit
me - a tactic usually applied by the totalitarian regimes ANTHC so vehemently
and emotionally wrote against. I would suggest that anyone who is currently
involved in some sort of discussion (if one can call it that) with ANTHC
continue it in email. It seems that he thrives on our atention.

Salutations and Seasons Greetings,
    Peter V. Gadjokov
    pvgunm@vesta.unm.edu
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <- note to anyone who may have my
                            old email address in a config 
                            file - I no longer receive mail
                            at pvgunm@pioneer.unm.edu.
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Why Macedonia - Part I - 1), 2) and 3)
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:45:04 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Dec16.092323.23824@donau.et.tudelft.nl> ivan@marvin.et.tudelft.nl (Ivan Sadinski) writes:

[deleted]

>for our tolerance (or oblivion), isn't it. I don't know of any place within 
>present days bulgarian borders that has paralleled the fate of Kukush/Kilkis 
>for instance.

It wasn't only Kukush but also another ... 160 villages. Read the Carnegie
Report on full account on those matters).

>Just a remark, I won't get involved in a dispute who did what attrocities
>and how much. It is only natural to be the ardent peacekeeper after getting a 
>good share.

When one sides continues and continues to speak about Bulgarian fascism and
Bulgarian attrocities, it is fair to look in history who and how started
all this, isn't it?

>BTW, netters, don't you appreciate that praise of the virtues of 
>the Ottoman empire that Serdar Argic advocates in his postings? It could even
>make one feel sorry for leaving the good wing of the Sultan.

After several years on the net and reading a lot of Mark Hubey's very
interesting postings and articles, and after browsing recently a lot of
British books on the subject, I can tell you that the Empire was not as
good and gentle as some quotes present it, but was also not as cruel and
unorganized as we studied it. In the past, I started to write on what both
sides seem not to know (or realize), but the Macedonian subject consumed
all my time and I can't continue that posting on the Ottoman Empire.

> Since then we
>only suffered.

It is so interesting, but I found out (and this is confirmed my many
historians) that the Bulgarians suffered most in the OE. MAny resons for
that and its a pity we don't study them, and for this, many Bulgarians
think that there is some Bulgarian feature to like to live under others
yoke. Pure nonsense. In fact - pure lack of knowledge of history. Greeks
were priviledged as they were kept as spiritual entry and administrative
body (did you know that the Ottomans haven't abolished the Byzantium
administrative system and kept the Greek clerk and tax system, etc, etc?)
and Serbians were close to the Adriatic and Western Europe, where there
intellectuals were able to "breath". Sorry not time for more now.

> But Serdar, could you please focus more specifically
>on the prosperous fate of the bulgarians in the Ottoman empire, since that of
>the jews fails to appeal on me. I mean it's been their problem.

I'd rather go in private mail, in case you want to learn more on the
matter. Furthermore, the best postings on the subject were my Mark Hubey,
so if you ask him and the group has interest, I'm sure he will post some
most interesting writings on the matter. One may not 'buy' it all, but so
many things make sense ... 

>Have a nice day all,
>	Ivan Sadinsky.

YOu too

Luben
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Why Macedonia - Part I - 1), 2) and 3)
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:01:07 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article: <7029@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>
lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes (answering to Gregory Dandulakis):

>On the contrary - I never forgot that you are well mannered and never
>expressed any ridiculous statements and never wanted to hurt the Bulgarian
>people. Due to this reason, I put a great deal and time to answer you.
>Ditto for Lambros (I had very, very friendly exchanges with him). I have no
>time whatsoever, but I honour you a lot and regard you as one with whom we
>can all have a dialogue. This is by no mean that we can;t have differences
>or that we can't say some facts, etc. As you noticed, I never tried to say
>that the Slavs/Bulgarians/etc. were "angels" and that the Greeks were the
>bad only. I agreed with so many points you raised in your last posting.

Why couldn't all discussions be in that level? (thanks, anyway)
By the way, I think it would be interesting, leaving aside our historical
arguments for a little while, to initiate a different kind of postings:
how about posting impressions from visiting each other's country? That is,
describing each country from the viewpoint of a visitor that is used in a
completely different environment/political system/culture/attitudes.

I visited Bulgaria in the summer of 1986 and have very vivid memories
from that trip - I'll be more than happy to describe my impressions,
altough thay may be considered as a little "dated" today (??). Similarly,
I'm sure many Bulgarians on the net have visited Greece recently,
or in earlier times...

Does the above sound interesting to anyone?

Regards,
L. Skartsis
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: penev@venezia (Penio Penev)
Subject: Re: Milk price
Organization: Rockefeller University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:53:30 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Reply-To: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu
X-Posted-From: venezia.rockefeller.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Daniel Kalchev (daniel@danbo.bg) wrote:
: bliznako@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (Bliznakov, Plamen) writes:
: : The parents of a friend of mine arrived recently from Bulgaria. They
: : say the price of a liter of milk is BGL 7. I calculated, that a galon
: : would cost $ 1.10 (using exchange rate 24 BGL / USD). Here I can buy
: : a galon of 2 % milk for $ 1.59, and rarely for $ 0.99 (on special sale).
: : This includes a plastic bottle.
: 
: I doubt the price is that much. It was announced that it "will be" so.
: So much for market economy... By the way, prices seems to be extremely
: high in Sofia. In Varna one liter fresh milk is around 5 Leva (or
: under). Also, you should use the rate 25 BLG/USD.

My wife came two weeks ago wrom Sofia and quoted BGL 7 / liter milk
and BGL 25 / USD . The prices in Sofia are "tarditionally" higher than
elsewhere. So are the prices in Manhattan. I buy a galon of (all)%
milk for USD 2.59 <sigh>.

: Also, please note that the milk here is usualy 3.6% (or was?)

Was, was. Now (August) there are (were) two products in Sofia - 2% and
3% (very scares and ~ 1.5 times the price of the other, as You can
guess).

: : Probably, the only way to help the exports is not to support the current
: : exchange rate, although this will increase the price of imported products
: : (e.g., gas). Any ideas from the economics and business students ?
: 
: The exchange rate is indeed weird. But I doubt anyone will change it
: due to a petition of some sort. <sigh>

Everything, that is left without barriers, equilibrates. If there are
barriers, it equilibrates, taking them into account. The street prices
in Bulgaria are low ( in USD) compared to the street prices in US
(Manhattan). What actually counts is the high volume prices. The taxes
in US are much lower, so the ratio of the high volume prices should be
even more trade favourable for BG. Add here, that we are not an EC
country, so some customs barriers do not apply for us. I'd love to see
Bulgarian wines, cheese, conserved vegetables and fruits here. 

BTW, in the nearest cheese shop ( less than 500m from home) there is
very good Bulgarian sheep cheese. $4.50/pound. For comparison, the
Cumumber is $4.95, the baby brie is $3.95 and the cheepest one is
$3.25. I was mislead by some friends, that we cannot eat "ovtche
sirene" in US.

I haven't seen Bulgarian wine in the vicinity (haven't been searching,
though). 

-- Penio
  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: bliznako@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (Bliznakov, Plamen)
Subject: Milk price
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:52:00 GMT

The parents of a friend of mine arrived recently from Bulgaria. They
say the price of a liter of milk is BGL 7. I calculated, that a galon
would cost $ 1.10 (using exchange rate 24 BGL / USD). Here I can buy
a galon of 2 % milk for $ 1.59, and rarely for $ 0.99 (on special sale).
This includes a plastic bottle.

In the summer I though the Bulgarian diary products are the last
agricultural products which can compete at the international market, since
they had relatively low price. I think this is not the case anymore.

Probably, the only way to help the exports is not to support the current
exchange rate, although this will increase the price of imported products
(e.g., gas). Any ideas from the economics and business students ?

Plamen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: daniel@danbo.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Subject: Re: getting news from Bulgaria / Open Society Fund
Organization: Digital Systems
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:05:08 GMT

kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
: My personal experience with Open Society suggests that
: bureaucratic inertia and lack of experience in problem-solving and
: logistics are much greater problems than money ever will be for
: them.  If you want to get them to do something, you'll have to
: SHOW THEM HOW and MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM.  At the same
: time, get the backing of some official-sounding organization to lend
: an air of legitimacy to your request.  That'll make them feel like
: they're doing something really important.  They like that.

I completely agree with your statement. If you want news from Open
Society, all you need to do is to *convince* them that they should use
modern technology to distribute the news.

Here we get into an unexpected trouble... The 'big-shoots'
in the foundation sure appreciate the idea. But what they do is ask
the "computer people" and usualy get an answer of the sort "oh, you
know this is Bulgaria, such things dont grow here, but if you..." (the
request is usualy for something completely different).

I posted already a note about my talk with their "Computer
Consultant". He was quite surprised to hear from me  that they can
easily distribute their News electronicaly, to an very large number of
readers, essentialy for free. This one year after I have personaly sent
several notes to Open Society to join the network, and when they fund
the local library in Varna to get Internet acccess...

The person told me he was told that I will be offerng him some "stock
exchange information". <sigh>

Probably the best thing to do about Open Society is to send them
e-mail, and explain how they will gain more popularity by distributing
their news electronicaly. They have the news in electronic form, and
it is just a matter of "possibility" to send them out to the net.

However, I very much doubt that the Open Society will start collecting
information about the day-to-day situation in Bulgaria...

Daniel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: daniel@danbo.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Subject: Re: Milk price
Organization: Digital Systems
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:42:10 GMT

bliznako@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (Bliznakov, Plamen) writes:
: The parents of a friend of mine arrived recently from Bulgaria. They
: say the price of a liter of milk is BGL 7. I calculated, that a galon
: would cost $ 1.10 (using exchange rate 24 BGL / USD). Here I can buy
: a galon of 2 % milk for $ 1.59, and rarely for $ 0.99 (on special sale).
: This includes a plastic bottle.

I doubt the price is that much. It was announced that it "will be" so.
So much for market economy... By the way, prices seems to be extremely
high in Sofia. In Varna one liter fresh milk is around 5 Leva (or
under). Also, you should use the rate 25 BLG/USD.

Also, please note that the milk here is usualy 3.6% (or was?)

: Probably, the only way to help the exports is not to support the current
: exchange rate, although this will increase the price of imported products
: (e.g., gas). Any ideas from the economics and business students ?

The exchange rate is indeed weird. But I doubt anyone will change it
due to a petition of some sort. <sigh>

Daniel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: bliznako@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (Bliznakov, Plamen)
Subject: Balkan Bulgarian Airlines starts flying to / from New-York
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords:  Aviation, Transportation, Airlines
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:34:00 GMT

Balkan Bulgarian Airlines starts flying each Monday to / from New York 
on December 21, 1992. An additional weekly flight on Fridays will be added
on January 8, 1993. Departures from Sofia are at 9 a.m. arriving to 
JFK airport at 1:30 p.m. The return flights are leaving at 4 p.m. arriving
to Sofia 8:30 a.m. next day.

I still am not absolutely positive about the price, but a 2-months
round-trip ticket bought in the US and originating from New York
should be somewhere around $ 600-650 (depending on the travel agency
you buy the ticket from). A one-way ticket should cost about $ 550.
The above prices are higher than what Jes air used to charge. Hopefully,
however, Balkan being much larger company will not stop to operate like
Jes.

Merry Christmas &
Happy New Year


Plamen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer : this message is not intended to be an advertisement, but
rather to inform readers of soc.culture.bulgaria about just another
possibility to travel from the US to Bulgaria. Although my wife is a ticket
agent on leave from Balkan she currently is not on Balkan's payroll and 
neither her nor mine income depends on your decision to fly by Balkan or by
another airline.
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: getting news from Bulgaria / Open Society Fund
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:28:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec16.172803.22991
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

For your information:

The Open Society Fund / Sofia is a not-for-profit operation funded
entirely by the Soros Foundation in New York.  Soros, in turn, gets
its money from George Soros, a Hungarian immigrant who made
tons of money in the U.S. as an investment wizard.  His stated aims
include the promotion of English-language teaching and business
teaching in eastern and central Europe, and the creation of "open
societies" in the former "socialist bloc" countries.  Soros has done a
lot of very good work in Hungary and Russia in particular, and is
extending its influence into most (if not all) of the former Soviet
satellites.

My point is that the Open Society Fund has PLENTY of money at
its disposal.  If they need more than they have, all they have to do
is ask for it.  None of us should have to pay them for information
about Bulgaria.

My personal experience with Open Society suggests that
bureaucratic inertia and lack of experience in problem-solving and
logistics are much greater problems than money ever will be for
them.  If you want to get them to do something, you'll have to
SHOW THEM HOW and MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM.  At the same
time, get the backing of some official-sounding organization to lend
an air of legitimacy to your request.  That'll make them feel like
they're doing something really important.  They like that.

Although funded by Soros, Open Society is nominally independent
and operated entirely from within Bulgaria.  This is done to
conform with BG governmental regulations.  Appealing to the New
York office of Soros, however, may have some effect.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: What sort of History is this?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:48:08 GMT

A. Romanos wrote:

(Massive Deletion)

I hope I clarified my position now.

                                                        A.Romanos
  Actually, your position is not merely clear, but
transparent.  You oppose an independant nation in
Macedonia.  I am not altogether certain as to why,
but then I must confess I am also not particularly
interested.

Al Moore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: A7571DAC@vm.univie.ac.at (TIETZE)
Subject: gen.Brigo A.& V.STOJaNOV (nedo)otroveni...
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:20:51 GMT

Spored BTA i BG-pechata _Paguo CO%NR_ + _XOPN3OHT_ & RFE (16./17. 12.'92):
Gen. Brigadir ASPARUHOV (nachalnikqt na Nac.Razuzn.Sluzhba) i govoritelyat na
prezidenta Valentin STOYANOV bili otroveni| (Do kolkoto podrazbiram, te sa
ostanali zhivi makar i ne oshte?! hapqlno zdravi.) Brigo poluchul "svoyata"
doza v chashka s ("zhiva"?) voda, koyato mu podnesla sekretarkata na Zh.ZhELEV,
kogato gen.Brigo chakal da bqde priet pri prezidenta...

Glavnoto ili stolichnoto Sledstveno Upravlenie (ot kqdeto izglezhda e iztekla
informacijata) imala dostatqchno svedeniya, za da zavede sledstvie (s vodesht
Aleksandqr MATOV? - zam.hach. Stol.sledstv.sluzhba) sreshtu nepoznati predprieli
opit za ubijstvo. Sled tova sluzhbata nalozhila informacionno zatqmnenie.


"gobpo ympo BG |"    (VOA)
              B^agu


P.S.: Mezhdu drugoto: Vse oshte se tqrsi podhodyasht (bez dvojno, no
      s BG-grazhdanstvo) kandidat-premier| Naj-chesto spomenyavano vqv vrqzka s
      tova bilo imeto Stefan HARIZANOV. (Az pone ne si spomnyam, da sqm chuval
      neshto poveche za nego. Dori ne razbrah pol.grupirovka prinadlezhi ili
      kloni|) NKS na SDS vchera e posochila dva kandidati:

      Stefan SAVOV (predlozhen ot Elka KONSTANTINOVA) si napravil otvod, a

      Svetoslav LUCHNIKOV ( "  ot Jordan VASILEV) otsqstval.


      I taka (pochti) vsichki hodove sa vse oshte vqzmozhni:

      Dimitqr LUDZHEV konferiral skoro (okolo 4 ch.|) s Zh.ZhELEV. (Mozhe bi vqv
      vrqzka s podgotvyaneto na eventualno skoro neobhodmiya sluzheben kabinet?)



P.P.S.: Kogato ne e izrichno spomenato drugo, informaciyata mi bazira na
        nacionalnite (_XOPN3OHT_ & _Paguo CO%NR_/predav.na BG-ski za zhuzhbina)
        chuzhdestrannite (predimno RFE + BBC + VOA) aktualni radio-predavaniya.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: es182@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: KOLEDNO POZDRAVLENIE
Reply-To: es182@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:51:18 GMT

And a very happy holiday to everyone from this corner of the network
(Albany, New York): 
Vesela koleda i chestita nova godina...

Ernie Scatton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Please don't claim what I haven't said (was Re: Why Macedonia - Part I - 1), 2) and 3)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:03:57 GMT

Dear Luben,
I'm writing this short message in response to your article that
appeared in scg and scb - apparently this response will only 
appear in scb. This, of course, is a further clarification from
my previous posting.

About oppresion of greeks/bulgarians in Bulgaria/Greece. 
 
We, in Greece read books and accounts of well-known greeks from Eastern
Rumelia refering to their lives there, as well as stories 
about the fight for Macedonia, during the beginning of the century
- involving terrible attrocities. If you know reliable, objective
sources that state that the bulg. in Greece had much worse
treatment than the greeks in Bulgaria, that's fine; I don't argue
on that, I can't! Anyway, our treatment of the bulgarians, esp. 
during the Metaxas' time, is a matter of disgrace and shame for us.
But, please don't tell me one word regarding the Bulgarian behavior
during the WW2 axis occupation of N. Greece: it was a true disgrace as well!

About proportions of Macedonian populations, division, etc. 

I respect your knowledge and interest on the subject. I don't know
enough to argue for anything before 1870. You are right. I only
know about the Ottoman and other statistics refering to the early
1900's - I have also seen a british(?) ethnological map of around
that time; and I am only speaking about today's greek Macedonia: the
Bulgarians were NOT  a majority there then. And those who left were
roughly equal in numbers to the greeks that came from Monastiri and
E. Rumelia.
You are also right: when I am talking about peoples spread roughly
throughout the particular Balkan region, I'm obviously only talking
about Greeks, Turks and Bulgarians.

To finish, guys, I wrote my postings because after reading scb for
some time I sensed [I hope I was wrong and apparently I was] a trend
for "revansism" (I'm sorry for the choice of a strong word for lack
of a better term) so evident in the ex-communist countries. Understandable
to some extent, for people who have been for so long forced to learn often
fabricated versions of their history and not to demand their rights.
Please understand that other people in W.Europe have - hopefully -
long before gone through this particular stage that has resulted in
this wave of nationalism and claims in E. Europe. 

Hopefully the discussion will end here.

Best regards,
Labros
 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bulgaria:1967 soc.culture.china:33249
From: willemsdawnm@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.china
Subject: wedding customs?
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:12:00 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

I am currently doing a paper on wedding customs of different societies.  I
would appreciate any information anyone can provide for me. 
Please send info to willemsdawnm.bvc.edu

thanks
dawn