From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Can boxing skills handle kicking ? (to Colin Adams)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:46:53 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes...
>In stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>>
>>I'd be interested to hear any quotes from any of them about how imprecisely
>>they think their opponents targeted them.   Every such match I've seen left
>>the karate guys looking foolish and awkward.   Not more precise, at all.
>>Even those where they had some real skill and gave the boxer a decent fight,
>>they certainly didn't seem to walk away unscathed from the imprecision
>>of the pugilist.
> 
>Were the karate guys allowed to use their feet or were they forced to
>fight the boxers in their own domain?
> 

Hi Colin, 

	That's a very good question, and the first one people usually
	ask when they find out about this kind of contest (the second
	being 'did they use gloves, or were they allowed to use their
	_deadly_ heart-pull techniques ?')  ... Jes' kidding.  ;-)

	The answer is that from what I've seen, (most) kicks make almost no 
	difference at all, given very minimal experience with dealing with 
	kicks.  I'll grant that the first few kicks a boxer sees may
	be surprising, but it takes very little time to adapt
	their skills and get used to the new angles, from what I've seen.

	The exception is the use of leg kicks.  Leg kicks often turn the
	tables, because western boxing has no concept of dealing with
	low line attacks, and they are both physically and psychologically 
	intimidating.

	Most good leg kickers are more kickboxers than modern competitive
	karateka, though, so that isn't the same comparison as I was making.

	But as for the usual kicks to the head and body, they actually often
	make it easier for the boxer to target his opponent.  You can evade
	much more easily during punching than during kicking.  The closest 
	contests I've seen were those of hands against hands.  

	Many people don;t seem to understand this, but the skills for
	rolling and slipping and picking off shots to the head and body
	aren't that speciallized, they work against kicks, punches, and all
	other martial arts strikes, with very little additional training.  
	Lifting up a foot for even a moment and destroying your mobility is 
	usually suicide against an expert in boxing footwork.  A good pug can 
	nullify enough of your kick to keep from getting knocked out, and can 
	go on to hurt you at close range, without you having the ability
	to sidestep or backstep momentarily because of the momentary 
	unbalancing caused by the kick.   Watch a few of kickboxer Dennis 
	Alexio's knockouts for an example of this.  He often counters kicks 
	with punches effectively in this manner.   Combining effective
	kicking and punching mechanics is extremely rare, including in
	kickboxing.

	The generic weaknesses (IMO) in western boxing as an art are not in 
	inability to deal with 'techniques,' like ridge hands or backfists 
	or kicks, but with low level attacks, and potentially 
	with control tactics at close range (trapping to some extent, and 
	particularly grappling).   

						thanks,

						todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts