HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 10:04:56 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

[I realize now that I misread Ron's original article,
in that I took him to be saying that he was posting 
to soc.motss something that had already been sent out
to the la-motss group.  I'll get the hang of these
high tech words like "bounce" one of these days.]

In article <1992Dec30.120657.28660@macc.wisc.edu> 
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> In article <1hs001INNg4d@mizar.usc.edu>
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >Maybe I'll just stay at home
> >and finish knitting that afghan I started in 1973.
>
> Oh, now *here's* a Queer Question (tm): what fraction of
> afghans are knitted and what fraction are crocheted?  My
> granny could crochet a good-sized afghan in less than a day.

Gee, maybe it's taken me 20 years to get this far 
because I'm going about it all wrong.  This does put
me in mind of some friends of mine from years back,
who were very much into embroidering things.  One
of these friends, Kim, decided early one year that 
she would make 4 or 5 throw pillows for her mother
in the Thracian style -- unbelievably intricate and
delicate thread-counted cross-stitch in a dozen or 
so colors on black velvet -- only to give it up as
hopeless 11 months later because she'd managed to
complete 6 square inches on one pillow.  It was
awfully nice, though.

Arne
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: MOW '93: Offical Travel Agents
Keywords: MOW MARCH WASHINGTON DC
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:13:02 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

[Sorry if you've seen this twice... royal screw up on my part]

If someone has the offical travel agents handy, please post them here.
Thanks!


-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free"   |CO made a #2 no-no... PU!          |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:38:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.152237.1124@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.123033.4883@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >I took Melinda to be saying, in
> >effect, that despite that, there is an image that could
> >be revealing to anyone who will consider it, embedded in
> >Dworkin's extreme rhetoric.
> 
> More or less.  As I wrote earlier, just because she's wrong
> about an awful lot doesn't mean that she's wrong about
> everything.  She's starting from what I consider to be a
> reasonable assumption (the problematic nature of
> consensuality in unequal relationships) and drawing some
> outrageous conclusions.  That doesn't invalidate her
> starting point.

I will note that this reflects a completely different mode
than the previous article you wrote.
I will take it as evidence that the previous tone was episodic.

> We've discussed, in an earlier thread, that it's hard to
> "get it" until you've had some direct experience with
> oppression yourself.  

I agree. :-)

> I believe that you can sometimes fix
> automotive electrical problems by driving really fast
> across a bump.  I believe that you can sometimes fix
> hardware problems by power-cycling.  Sometimes tripping
> over a book on the library floor can help put a problem in
> a new perspective.  

yes those things *may* work in some set of circumstances, but would
you reccomend them as an all purpose methodology?

well in the case of power cycling, actually, I do. :-)

> And if Andrea Dworkin can jolt some men
> into considering *why* they get so angry with her, then she
> will at least have accomplished something.  Mind you, the
> number of men I've seen actually think about their anger
> with her and why she writes what she writes still numbers
> in the small single digits.  

Well theer it is, her methodology is ineffective in catalyzing change.

I'm no stranger to the *If you can't beat 'em shock 'em* school,
and it may surprize you that I count myself as one who has put
some thought into why her material angers men. It may surprize you 
that I think that her material and POV  has merit. 

> It's all too easy to dismiss
> her as a man-hater;  I'd like to see more people (men
> especially) consider the "why" of it all.

well, Melinda, she *is* a man hater.. Goddess knows sometimes *I*
hate the bastards, and with good reason. For the life of me I don't know
how strayt women put up with 'em either!

And I also think I have gained some small understanding of why.
I do try to do whatever I can to level the playing field.

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:52:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.013604.8299@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Starcap'n Ra) writes:
>     And not speaking to you Jess, but at large to the general
>discussion: please, can we be spared the "well, her starting point is
>valid, she just comes to the wrong conclusions" jibberish?  I mean, so
>what, just what in hell is *that* supposed to prove, besides absolutely
>nothing?

That _was_ a mighty peculiar method of argument.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cramer is our problem too.
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:10:50 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <72676@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Bob Donahue writes:
>>We created the group, we set the tone...
>
>We control the vertical, we control the horizontal.... ;-)

Either way is fine with me.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE)
Subject: "cures" for homosexuality
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:06:37 GMT

  From THE GAY BOOK OF LISTS, 11 Alleged Cures for Homosexuality, 

1.) Aversion Therapy
2.) Castration
3.) Diet Therapy
4.) Drug Therapy
5.) The love of a good woman.
6.) Lobotomy, as late as the 1970's
7.) Physical Therapy, according to one theory, prostate massage kills 
    "homosexual cells" and replaces them with "healthy heterosexual cells".
8.) Radiation Therapy
9.) Aphrodisiac Therapy
10.)Shock Treatment.
11.)Torture, Exorcism, and Death.

  Naturally, the author goes into much more detail, I've only given the
headings.
                              Bri...
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:29:15 EST
From: <MEH124@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Guilt: religion vs society?

A question for those of you that may have experienced guilt coming to terms
with your gay/lesbian or bisexual lifestyle and feelings.  If you did
experience guilt was the source more from religious upbringing or from being
different from mainstream society?  Also, and more importantly, is the  feeling
of guilt the same for that brought on by religion versus that from social
differences (i.e., are there two different kind/feelings of guilt)?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark on New Years Eve
Organization: JPL, Shuttle Imaging Radar Software Group
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:38:52 GMT


In article <1992Dec23.003911.1813@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
|>
|>Time magazine reports that people are steal the Marky Mark ads off of
|>bus stations in L.A.
|>

I know a guy who has collected seven of these posters.  And he won't share.

--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.personals.ads
From: marcuss@microsoft.com (Marcus Stringer)
Subject: GAY Angwin, CA
Date: 23 Dec 92 06:30:45 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa
Keywords: Napa Valley

Ok, I know Angwin isn't a "hot bed" for gay communities.
Maybe the Napa Valley is more of a meca?  (smile)

Anyway, I'm looking at a school in that area and want to
know what to expect.  What are the possiblities for 
someone who wont want to drive into SF every weekend?

Thanks in advance
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Re: My 5-year HS Reunion... the results!
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:07:56 GMT

In article <1hon97INNc79@sdl.Warren.MENTORG.COM>
tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
 
(A lot of way cool and extremely encouraging stuff about Tom's HS reunion
deleted...)
My 10-year class reunion is in a couple of years. I graduated with 125
others from a rural high school. Skipping the reunion is *not* an
option for me; I am the class president and will have to organize the
damned thing. So I've been thinking a lot lately (I know, I know, it's
kinda premature) about what I'll do when the day rolls around.
 
My first plan was to contact a male classmate whom I know to be gay (I
haven't come out to him) and make a deal -- I'll bring a same-sex date
if he will, or he and I can go together. But lately I've been thinking
that I'd never be able to look at myself in the mirror if I cowered in
the closet during this reunion. Tom's experience is encouraging, although
I keep reminding myself that his high school is in New York, not Mill-
brook, Alabama...
 
One thing that bothers me -- every coming-out to old friends has a
ripple effect, which usually manifests itself in the revisionist history
that goes on with formerly close friends. For example, one of my best
friends was the head cheerleader (I know, I can barely believe it myself
these days). If I come out, will she do the OhmigoddidIeverundressin-
frontofherataslumberparty routine? Should I care about her peace of
mind? On the other hand, there is a dear male friend who was crazy
about me in high school, and neither one of us could figure out at the
time why I wanted to be nothing more than friends with him. Now I know,
and perhaps letting him in on that would convince him he's not a geek.
Or maybe I haven't crossed his mind since graduation. At what point does
coming out cause more problems than it solves? Again, does it matter?
 
Oh, well... I have two years to stew over this. Any input is appreciated...
>
>Two snaps up!
>
Indeed!
 
Tracey
From: comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Peter Cooper)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:19:59 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:

>First, there is an older Nazi soldier who, in one scene, cuts
>Josef's (the main character) hair.  The attention he gives Josef implies
>some infatuation from the soldier.  Later, he surprises
>Josef during a bath (the intrusion appears to be a forward flirtation).
>The soldier learns of Josef's secret Jewish identity, which
>he can hide as long as no one sees his circumcised penis.  The
>soldier keeps this secret, probably because of his attraction to
>Josef.  (Josef had become sort of the "darling" hero of the unit
>as well.)


Hmmmmm.  I thought that the lead character (the *dreamy* guy with black,
curly hair and the wonderful nose) was named Solomon.  And that's why
his nickname was Solly.

And the older soldier, when he discovers Solly's Jewishness, says
something along the lines of "There are the good Germans, too" ... which
is further enhanced by Solly's girlfriend's mum.  The fact that this
older soldier didn't make any more passes at Solly, and was more
interested in being his friend and protector doesn't quite gel with a
continuing sexual affection.

BTW:  are all Europeans uncircumcised like the film implies?  It's not
like Australia ;-)

>That is motss relevance on the more direct level.  A second, less
>obvious example is the fact that Josef is at great risk should
>anyone (unfriendly) learn his true identity.  There is at least
>one scene in which Josef confesses he is a Jew -- to the mother
>of a sort-of girlfriend.  I found this scene quite poignant, as
>it portrayed the courage and anguish of standing up for one's 
>identity in the face of grave risk.

Yeah.  This is the scene where he is again comforted by a "good german".
I really was affected a lot by the film.  It has a lot in common with
growing up very closetted, and trying to hide your true identity.  And
after all the collaboration, Solly says "I thought we were shipping them
[the Jews] off to Madagascar" - closetted, gay, homophobic should take
note.

Peter
-- 
email:  comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   snail:  Peter Cooper
fax:    +61 9 380 1041                     Guild of Undergraduates
phone:  +61 9 380 3929                     University of Western Australia
"It was the banana that did it!" - Julia Marley
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Age-ism and the gay community
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:05:07 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Dec18.021033.13179@bsu-ucs> 00bbharris@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>	Why is the criteria for gay men over the age of 21 is to find a man
>over the age of 21?  Why must they assume that i am too immature for them?
>Is it the same way with gay women (sorry, i hate the term 'lesbian')?

If you're looking for a sign of maturity, the refusal to call people by the
term they wish to be called is *not* one.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (was Re: Ageism)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 04:05:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu


Ablative, accusative.  Who can keep them straight?

Arne
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 07:31:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <thaaang.724731801@cwis> <BznGzr.GHI@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>    
  <thaaang.725058794@cwis> <72279@cup.portal.com> <thaaang.725134675@cwis>
  <72336@cup.portal.com> <thaaang.725181231@cwis>

Thaaang squeals:
>>>>Tch, John.  Such a stereotypically exclusionary list you wrote.
>>>Well jeez. I was using International Male, gimmie a break...
>>I don't know whether to absolve you because your source is so
>>thoroughly fucked up, or to berate you for choosing such a
>>revolting source in the first place.....  ;-)
>
>Oh, foo. IM has some good twee going on, and I happen to find some of
                      ^^^^^^^^^
A contradiction in terms.

>the butcher models hot, and I'm listening to Prince even as I type,
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah.... you mean the ones just a *touch* more butch than a
drag queen screaming about a run in his stockings? There's
certainly nothing one could actually call "butch" in that rag.

Or maybe you were talking about guys in white, blood-spattered
aprons holding cleavers?  ;-)

Of course, what you were listening to helps to explain why this
post was so ... disjointed.  Remember, "Drivel in, Drivel out!"

;-{)##]

 
() When a man's education is finished, he is finished.
()      -- E.A. Filene
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: 50 most popular motss.pix photos 10/21-12/26/92
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:01:10 GMT

Here are the 50 most-frequently-retrieved photos in the motss archive
from the period 10/21/92 to 12/26/92.  As I said in the first report,
this isn't a popularity contest as much as a curiosity contest.
Also, not to claim that these folks are any less curious-making
than the others, but there is a definite bias for people whose names
begin with 'a', as you might expect from casual browsing.  Nonetheless,
I think you'll find that the results are still interesting to note.

 153 john_dorrance_uncensored.gif
  95 amelia.and.karen.gif
  91 fwa.and.fbat.uncens.gif
  83 bryan_blumberg.JPEG
  70 amelia.gif
  68 john_dorrance.gif
  65 fj-2.gif
  62 jess_anderson.gif
  61 arnold_zwicky.gif
  60 fruitbat_with_attitude.gif
  60 fj-3.JPEG
  59 amelia2.gif
  55 fj-1.greysc.gif
  54 fruitbat_at_beach.gif
  52 arne_adolphson.gif
  51 jim_wood2.JPEG
  51 fruitbat_in_suit.gif
  49 tim_pierce.gif
  49 jojo_1.gif
  46 ric_helton.gif
  46 amanda_walker_genie.gif
  42 bob_strong1.gif
  41 arne_adolphson2.gif
  40 fwa.gif
  40 fruitbat_spluts_martin.gif
  39 fwa_reclining.gif
  38 manuel_negron_vega.gif
  38 jess_anderson2.JPEG
  37 amanda_walker_caricature.gif
  37 amanda_walker.JPEG
  36 john_flanagan.JPEG
  36 fwa_jesus_shaves.gif
  36 fwa_bust.gif
  36 biker2.gif
  36 adam_stein.gif
  35 jess_anderson.JPEG
  35 fwa.and.fbat.gif
  35 bob_strong3.gif
  35 ba.motss.dinner.w.amelia.JPEG
  35 argv.gif
  35 andy_shore_2.gif
  35 andy_shore.and.ron_jenks.JPEG
  35 andy_gerber.gif
  35 andy_gerber.and.todd_ogawa.gif
  34 nelson_and_bbc.gif
  34 melinda_shore.gif
  34 arne_adolphson3.gif
  34 argv+philip.gif
  33 owen_rowley2.JPEG
  33 john_flanagan2.JPEG

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 20:39:31 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <72279@cup.portal.com> <1992Dec23.185307.6890@tc.cornell.edu>

Melinda Shore writes:
>>Tch, John.  Such a stereotypically exclusionary list you wrote.
>
>So look who's talking.  If we want to make sure that lesbians 
>feel welcome, we'll have to create soc.lesbigay.birkenstock,
>soc.lesbigay.rayon (for the bowling-shirted among us),
>soc.lesbigay.interlock (for the polo shirt and turtleneck-
>wearing dykes), soc.lesbigay.handknit (for the earth mothers,
>although one might anticipate some overlap with soc.lesbigay.
>birkenstock), and so on.

Quite so; I abase myself.  But wouldn't there also have to be
some group(s) along the lines of s.l.estee.lauder for those
lesbians who prefer "traditionally feminine" attire and makeup?

 
() Decide promptly, but never give any reasons. Your
() decisions may be right, but your reasons are sure to be
() wrong.
()      -- Lord Mansfield
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: jprigeon@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Prigeon)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:25:28 GMT
Subject: Brinkley Show 1/3
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: soc.motss

Hey Motssters,

Are there any other eggheads who watch 'This Week with David Brinkley?'
If you did you saw something interesting.  The topic of the show was 
baby boomers and generational politics.  Anyway, one of the guests was
the publisher of Rolling Stone Magazine.  This guy came on and said that
his generation was the first to start doing things about the environment,
and civil rights for blacks, women and gays.  Later in the interview, Sam
Donaldson asked him 'Sir, you mentioned that your generation was sensitive
to civil rights for gays, correct?  Well, excuse me, but didn't you just
spend your holiday vaction in Aspen Colorado, where a there's a boycott
on the state because of measure 2 passage?'  The guy did some rather 
unelegant back-pedaling and then used the excuse that he didn't know that
the boycott was official yet.  Oh PUHHHLEEEEAAAAAZE!

Kudos to Sam Donaldson!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re:
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 01:45:50 GMT

In article <1i02veINNftp@hp-col.col.hp.com>
smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>> I'm unclear what it is you're trying to establish, Walter.
>> Clearly, employment (and other) discrimination because of
>> homophobia exists; you're apparently not disputing that.
>> When you ask for more detail, I wonder why?  Is it your
>> intention to argue that "a few" such cases are somehow not
>> worth making a fuss about, that homophobia isn't "all that
>> bad," or what?

>My personal experiences tell me that it isn't as bad as 
>I read people here saying it is.  Others say it is.  I
>am looking to reconcile in my own mind the reality of 
>the situation.   

You know, Walter, were the shoe on the other foot, you might
well feel rather insulted by such a remark.  Your personal
experiences don't include the data, which is another way of
saying you have no valid reason to suspect the testimony of
me and many others here.  So why are you doing so?  I don't
what "reality" it would take to convince you, but in all
probability the case has been significantly *understated*
here; most of us find the enormous suicide rates of teens
caused by homophobia appallingly painful; most of us know
personally people who have been physically assaulted by
homophobes; virtually all of us know viscerally and
first-hand the ugliness of anti-LGB bigotry in our lives.

Then you come along and say, "oh, I dunno about that," and
enter into practically endless (and pointless) dispute with
us on matters you know nothing about, by your own admission.
Now what reaction do you expect to get from us, Walter, to
what amounts to massive rudeness on your part?

Finally, let us suppose that some airborn 2x4 comes along
and knocks a little sense into your skull at long last;
where would we be then?  What benefit *to us* would there be
from that?  For if there were none, then you can gaddamned
well take your sorry fucking ass right out of here and right
quick before the troops turn mean.  I believe it's well
past the time when they should have done so.  As Bob Donahue
quite calmly remarked, it's put-up or shut-up time, buddy.


-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 11:35:04 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



Jess Anderson:

  >>[T]here clearly is a much smaller tendency to hold over-zealous
  >>woman-haters accountable (their numbers are massive) than to
  >>hold over-zealous man-haters (their numbers are much
  >>smaller) accountable.

David Christopher Rogers <drogers@riacs.edu>: 
 >This argument has been made a number of times, and is likely true, but I'm
 >left to wonder what is the conclusion I am to draw from this?  It's the
 >kind of argument often used to excuse the lesser of two evils.  Is there
 >something more subtle I'm missing here?


Remember that Jess is talking about accountability.  It makes no
sense at all to punish the lesser of two evils while allowing the
greater to continue with impunity.  

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss