HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Opinions: 4runner, Explorer and Pathfinder
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:36:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.180253.13218@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@navo.navy.mil writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.153926.28880@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>|> >Consumer magazines usually recommend the Explorer over the Jeep despite
>|> >the superiority of the Jeep suspension, probably because it is quite
>|> >a bit cheaper and has more room. 
>|> 
>|> If you are talking about Consumer Reports, I'd like to know where you
>|> got that idea. They recently tested some 4x4's and preferred the Grand
>
>I use CR when shopping for cordless telephones and dishwashing
>detergent, but not for cars.  Car and Driver did a 4x4 comparison,
>and picked the Isuzu Trooper as the best vehicle overall.

Was the Jeep Grand Cherokee,Toyota Landcruiser, or Land(?) Rover in 
the comparison? I can't believe the new Isuzu Trooper would beat them
all out. Maybe I'll go look up an issue, so I can see what they had
to say. Somehow I don't think I am hearing the entire story.

Btw, that's a "cool" attitude to have. Ever bother comparing what each had
to say? Was CU way off base? Or are you just saying that because 
it's cool to trash CU?

For example, they recently rated the Probe GT, Talon AWD Tsi, Prelude Si
VTEC and Mazda MX-6. Was their evaluation what you would expect from
a Dishwashing detergent rating company? They liked the Probe GT the best.

I am not saying they are perfect, but at least they bother to
criticize cars even Japanese(In fact their highest rated family class
car was not the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry). And, contrary to
popular misconception, they do rate the cars according to their
purpose.  For example, a back seat isn't as important in a Probe GT,
so back seating arrangments doen't mean as much when comparing to
other cars like the Prelude.

john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: Removing decals from windows
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 20:30:41 GMT

In article <145242@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> slim@anduin.UUCP (Scott R Whitman) writes:
>
>I've heard that nail polish remover works pretty well.
>

it does - its the acetone in it that does it
but, you may still need a razor blade to get the edge started

-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
	  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hiester@brahms.udel.edu (Jason Grego Hiester)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates 959 for sale? the rumor continues..
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:49:50 GMT

If I'm ever fooled by a VW Beetle disguised as a 959, let me be dragged
out into the street and shot!
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Opinions: 4runner, Explorer and Pathfinder
Date: 12 Jan 1993 00:52:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

duncan@informix.com (Duncan Moore) writes:
> 
> I am still waiting to hear from all of you who have 
> recently purchased loaded 4runners, Explorers or
> Pathfinders.  What-a-ya think?

Don't forget Jeep (Grand) Cherokees, and Isuzu Troopers or Rodeos.
Consumer Reports tested a bunch of these, and rated the Grand Cherokee
highest, with the Ford Explorer second.  They didn't test the new
Isuzu Trooper.  Several off-road magazines did test the new Trooper,
and put it a hair ahead of the Grand Cherokee.  But who knows how much
Isuzu bribed them?

I've looked at these vehicles and here's what I think.  The Jeep Grand
Cherokee is the best because of airbag, 4-wheel ABS, relatively low
weight, aerodynamics, and off-road performance.  The only negatives
I noticed were location of the gas tank behind the rear wheels (where
the spare tire should be) and lack of manual transmission.

If you need more storage space, or want manual transmission, the Ford
Explorer is a good alternative.  Negatives are that it sways too much,
and has too long a wheelbase for off-road driving.  Also, you have to
back up to get out of 4WD.

If you want reliability, or not-that-bad fuel economy combined with
a mere 119 horsepower, the Toyota 4Runner 4-cylinder isn't as bad as
Consumer Reports says it is.  The more powerful V6 models have worse
gas mileage, combined with less horsepower, than any Cherokee.

If you want a luxury car feel, the Isuzu is a possibility.  However,
fuel economy is horrendous, and shift-on-the-fly isn't available!!
The Isuzu Rodeo is less expensive, maybe the best bargain in SUVs.

The Pathfinder needs updating, in my opinion, so even though Consumer
Reports puts it in 3rd place, I would stay away.  Sorry, I didn't look
at the Chevy S10 Blazer, since Consumer Reports ripped it.

As a rafter who often needs to carry lots of people and gear, I have
many friends who own all these vehicles.  I can't say that anybody is
totally happy with any of them.  Everybody complains about lousy gas
mileage, and always gets me to do long shuttle in my Subaru 4WD wagon.
The guy who seems happiest own an old Cherokee.  Believe it or not,
he has had no major problems in 170k miles.

Overall, it's too bad these vehicles are such pigs.  There seems to
be room in the market for something in between wimpy AWD cars and the
SUV class.  Too bad they don't make something like the Subaru wagon
with 4WD and low-range any more.
From: sheriffp@Software.Mitel.COM (Peter Sheriff)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: bumpy right side
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:11:16 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.


     Is the weather really cold and was the car parked for some hours before
the incident? Here in Canada, when these conditions are met, tires will
develop a flat spot that gives this effect until they warm up. Some tire
types are worse than others for this problem.

                      Pete
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Subject: audiwatch update (tm)
Reply-To: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:16:10 EST


morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:

BM>As far as your ridiculous statement that Mazda pulled VW through the '70's,
BM>consider, as examples, 1.1 million Audi 80s sold between '72 and '78, 828 000
BM>of the original Audi 100s sold to 1976, and worldwide Beetle production at
BM>2600 vehicles per day in 1974. Additionally, the Golf and Polo were introduced
BM>in '74 and '75 respectively. The Porsche 924 of 1975 was an extremely
BM>successful model. The 3 000 000th Golf was made in 1979.

Let's also not forget that the furthur development of the Wankel
engine almost bankrupt Mazda - it was only through Mazda's
development/aquisition of a 4-cylinder engine that Mazda was able to
start selling a serious number of cars and return to profitability.

Also note that for the last ten or more years the ONLY car that
Mazda sells with rotary engines (at least in Canada) is in the RX7 -
bread and butter Mazda's (the ones that hopefully make the company
money) are ALL powered by conventional piston engines.

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: rs57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ruthann Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 86 Dodge 600
Date: 6 Jan 93 03:56:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0fGiIfa00iV0I1659Z
Organization: University Libraries - Technical Service, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Someone on campus is selling a 1986 Dodge 600 with about 80,000 miles on
it. Anyone have any comments about this car? The person is asking $1200
OBO. Email me or post if you like.

Thanx,
Ruth Ann
Pittsburgh, PA
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ford Taurus..again...
Keywords: Anybody know...
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:32:42 GMT
Distribution: usa

virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (P. Virgo) writes:


>Well, we've all gone ahead and talked about how the Taurus probably got
>it's esteemed place by deep discounts/rental fleet sales. Got me thinking...
>based on the numbers given, how many of those were ACTUALLY rental/fleet
>sales??? Two friends have differing opinions on which four-door sedan is
>the king of rental fleets--one says my Acclaim/Spirit is the reigning
>champ and another says the Toyota Camry...

Why is so many reluctant to congrate Ford for a Job well done.

First off, so what about the discounts. Do you actually know how
much a an accord is discounted to begin with. Since nobody but
ford and honda know what the mark-ups are (discounted or not) the
argument is weak at best.

Also, for tenth time in this note, they save if Taurus and Sable are
combined they've been beating them for quite some time with or with
out fleets.

Except for the ford owned fleets (Hertz?) it says something if someone
wants to buy a thousand. They must be fairly reliable, resale, inexpensive
maint. and etc. to choose them.

Just beacuse it's the most popular does not mean it's the best either.
I'm not a Ford or Honda fan myself. But I also know when congrates are
in order and they are.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, FORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Signed Deal - Sable (Was Dealer Prep Ought to be Road Kill)
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:32:01 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon

[]

	"Last summer I negotiated a similar deal, only to discover that
	having a deal on paper did not necessarily translate to a car
	in my hands."

Yes, I don't hold with this notion that the dealer should get a deposit
when taking a factory order.  I just placed two factory orders, at a
good price, and no money will change hands until I take delivery.  (I
haven't even been to the dealership -- I've just talked to the fleet
salesman over the phone.)

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Xref: sparky rec.autos:30915 rec.autos.tech:17382
From: datar@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (rajendra.datar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Which van would you consider? How is EuroVan?
Keywords: Van, help, quality, Toyota, VW, EuroVan, 7 passenger, big cargo.
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:19:33 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


Hello All:

I am seeking wisdom from the net once again as I am interested in buying a van.

I currently drive an Accord and I am impressed with Accords very smooth ride,
excellent manual transmission, very nice dash and high quality.
Plus everything came standard in the LX model.
I am looking for same/similar features in a van. Which van would you buy?

I need a van with 7 passenger sitting and good cargo space.
The rear seats should fold so that it can be a bed and should be
removable so that large furniture etc. can be carried in the van.
The middle seat should also fold to provide more cargo room if required.

The seats should be comfortable, should have head rest (just like my accord).
The van should be smooth, have good dash and very high quality.
I really like and enjoy the 5 speed manual transmission.
I hope I can get the 5 speed manual transmission for the van as well.

I have looked at two vans (a) the EuroVan by VW and (b) the Previa by Toyota.

I liked the EuroVan top of the line model (MV!):
GOOD: rear seat folds into bed, captains chairs for front and middle passengers,
head rest for all 7 passengers, very good cargo space & 5 speed tran. standard.
Individual air/heat control for back passengers.
BAD: did not like the position of the cup holders, seats little smaller.
This is the first year for the model and looks boxy.

I liked the Previa also:
GOOD: Very good interior, looked like a high quality product, wife likes the
shape a lot, 6 passengers have head rests. Appeared bigger inside with more
space inside than a EuroVan.
BAD: rear seat does not unfold into a bed, Cargo area a bit smaller than
EuroVan, does not come in 5 speed for LE model (getting Delux model with
some option does not make it same as LE!).

I am leaning towards EuroVan since the top of the line model (MV!) also comes
with a 5 speed manual transmission and most of the features I need as standard.
All I will need to add is the power windows/locks package (Convenience package).

My questions are:
Q1: Are there any other vans I should be looking at?
Q2: Any idea about the reliability of EuroVans?
Q3: Should I buy Previa (Delux model) and add options and skip EuroVan
    because of Toyota quality?
Q4: Cost of the model with options that you suggest?

Please send your replies via. email to "att!hogpd!datar"

As always -- Thanks for reading this article and your help.

Raju Datar........................
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:52:08 GMT

In <C0CHpz.GsJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) writes:

>Unless you have a huge bladder and so have no need to stop for hundreds of
>miles, your concern with mileage is misplaced. Fuel costs, especially with
>gas so cheap in the US, are a small part of the cost of ownership. The
>difference between 18 mpg and 25mpg will be trivial.

Since there have been several followups to this, I thought I'd pass 
on the "official" estimates of the Motor Vehicle Manufacturers 
Association.  Their 1990 estimate of the cost of owning a new car 
for 6 years / 60,000 mi was 41 cents per mile, broken down into: 

Variable Costs
 Gas & oil                  5.4 cents/mile
 Maintenance                2.1
 Tires                      0.9
                            ===
                            8.4 cents/mile

Fixed Costs
 Insurance                $ 675
 License & Registration     165
 Depreciation              2357
 Finance Charge             680

This is all taken from table 1017 in the 1992 Statistical Abstract 
of the United States.  I think, looking at the numbers, that the 
fixed costs must be per year, but the table doesn't say.  
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:31:47 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <64590106@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> knotts@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Tom Knotts) writes:
>
>This is your own opinion. The Saturn is not a cheap car; it is extremely
>well-engineered.  I'll put my Saturn SL up against any import in the
>same price range (I paid $9200 out-the-door for a '92).
>
  What?  I can't hear you over the racket from that !@#$! engine!

  Its a "nice" car, but none of the most rabid pro-American auto
  press attempts to pretend it can compete for "look and feel" with
  the better Japanese and European imports in its price range.

  But then some people LIKE K-Mart and don't understand why others
  shop at Magnin's.    

  It's not as "cheap" as the Vega GT, Cosworth Vega, etc. but it
  ain't an Accord either.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bond@a102n.b24a.ingr.com (Nelson K. Bond)
Subject: 93 Nissan Altima GXE info sought
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:46:22 GMT

I am interested in purchasing a 1993 Nissan Altima GXE.
Consumer Reports lists dealer invoice at:

12231.00 for the GXE (which gets you power-everything) plus
  847.00 for the discount option pkg (Air, Cruise, AM/FM Cass., etc)
--------
13078.00 total dealer invoice

Retail is around 14500.00 before any dealer add-ons.
I'd like to offer about 500.00 over dealer invoice on this car.  With the 
Altima being so popular right now (best-selling new 93 model according to
USA Today) has anyone out there gotten one at this type of price?

Please e-mail or post if you have information. Anyone interested in
impressions of the car I will reply to also.

Thanks,
-- 
---
Nelson K. Bond
 Intergraph Corporation
  Huntsville, AL
   bond@a102n.b24a.ingr.com
    ...uunet!ingr!b24a!a102n!bond
From: steinmar@blaze.rutgers.edu (Dan Steinmark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Integra handles like pig on skates - what tires to get?
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:01:30 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Do NOT forget about the BFG Comp T/A HR4's  (about $85) from Tire Rack.

Anyone done a direct comparison between the Yokohama A509 and the 
BFG Comp T/A HR4?  Also, any word on the A509's in snow? 
Please email me.

       -Dan
------------------
"55.  It's not justly a good idea.  It's the lawyers."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: Why 2 keys?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:26:36 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1993Jan11.191001.38505@watson.ibm.com> born@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>If this hasn't appeared already:
>
>There was an article in the NEW YORK TIMES last week (I don't 
>remember the exact date) about why cars have two keys.  It showed 
>the number of cars that manufacturers created with one and two 
>keys and reasons why.  

Thanks for posting. It's interesting to get answers to some of the
questions posted here. :-)

>GM continues to make every vehicle with 2 keys except the 
>SATURN.  Reasons given included logistic problems in coordinating
>the assembly of the cars doors with that of the steering column
>considering that all of GM's steering columns for all of its

Now that is truly pathetic!

Next they'll be saying that you have to have a different key for the
left and right doors on the grounds that they can't be bothered
matching them up.

-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
 Technical Writer | Yes, I do have long ears, a black nose, and a tail.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: pop-up lights
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 22:51:35 GMT

In article <63190@mimsy.umd.edu> hagger@cs.umd.edu (Paul Hagger) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.180803.10601@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.155939.26088@fcom.cc.utah.edu> bbarkey@lark.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>>>In article <1993Jan6.033537.6595@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (.) writes:
>>>
>>>>What are their advantages/disadvantages?
>>>
>>>      advantages: attract members of the opposite sex
>>>                    Increases aerodynamic efficiency slightly
>
>I believe that the main advantage of todays pop-up headlights is to
>allow a manufacturer to create a car with a low hood-line (for whatever
>reason, be it aerodynamic efficiency or aesthetics), while still
>meeting federal minimum height requirements for headlights.
>
>I'd really like to see a maximum height requirement as well, forcing
>high-riding 4x4 types to stop blinding me from behind.  Maybe we
>could encourage some sort of pop-down headlight arrangement :-)
>

yes, for sure - I hate to be driving down the road and have one of
those things come up behind & blind me....


-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
	  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: asper@sbctri.sbc.com (Alan E. Asper)
Subject: Re: Honda 1992 EX Coupe and ABS Brakes
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 22:09:18 GMT

In article <147520049@hplsla.hp.com> genet@hplsla.hp.com (Gene Taylor) writes:
>We have a 92 EX with ABS and the brakes work fine.  We don't get a lot

Some clarification might be needed: the '93 Civic EX COUPE does NOT have
ABS available. I know, 'cause I bought one today. :-)

But the 4-door Civic EX has ABS.

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Originator: daveb@lotus
In-reply-to: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Reply-To: daveb@lotus (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:04:30 GMT

There were many factors:

	* price
	* front-wheel drive
	* performance
	* dealer network
	* insurance cost

I had a Lotus dealer 2 blocks from my house, and have wanted one for a
many years.  I test drove one of his Elans a few times, and never felt
close to pulling the trigger.  The price was high compared to the
competition.  I didn't like the front-wheel drive handling, and it
didn't seem that fast.  No matter what the rags said, it felt like
front-wheel drive for sure, but also seemed prepared to do an end-swap
quickly if you trail-braked it hard in a corner.  This was decidedly
not confidence-inspiring.

Of all the factors, I think initial price was the major issue.  If the
car had met it's original 20-25k target, then it would have been
easier to accept the front-drive compromise for the "lotus magic".  At
34-40k, there was very little to commend it, and when the street price
dropped down the handwriting was on the wall.

My local dealer has since folded tent, leaving none in the northern
half of the SF Bay area.  (The SF dealer folded the year before.)  I
blame both the Elan and the recession about equally.

I really think Lotus is going to die as a new car maker.  This is very
sad, indeed, but seems inevitable.  The only thing they have going in
development is a V8 Esprit, and the world is not waiting for another
90k 2 seater, not with the NSX at 60k.

If they dropped the price of a Turbo-esprit another 20 to 44k, they
still might move some units.

So, I think the main problem was price -- the people that _want_ a
Lotus would have found a dealer, but it was so steep they couldn't
work up the enthusiasm.

-dB







-- 
Windows/NT - the VMS of the 90s
From: blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:50:56 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu (Tom Wetzel) writes:

> In article <1992Dec24.034851.22228@walter.bellcore.com> Ramiro Reinoso,
> ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain writes:
> >|> Anybody want to add more to the list?
> 
> Some obvious ones are:
> 
>   Chevrolet - The Heartbeat of America!
>   Corvette  - America's Sportscar
>   Cadillac  - The standard of the World
>   Ford      - Where Quality is Job 1


My personal favorite... (now defunkt).

AMC - We eat chesse sandwiches for lunch.

     Dan Reed - blu@cellar.org - AutoCAD Geek -Industrial Music Lover
      68'Cougar, 89'VW Golf, 74'Honda Cb360, 89'Rollerblade Zetras'
  "Anyone can get a gun Otis. You can make a phone call and get a gun."
From: gmh@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Greg Hughes)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:45:39 GMT
Subject: Re: EGR Experts Needed...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA