HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Whence the minyan?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 21:03:08 GMT

In article <ALLEN.92Oct9083129@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>	...
>                                I am not sure when the synagogue
>service was completely set (the precise wording of our Shmone Esrei is
>about 9th century CE, for example), but the requirement for 10 men to
>say certain prayers is a very early Rabbinic ruling.  (See, for

I believe that the Shmonei Esrei was defined by the members of the
Anshei Kneset Hagdola, which existed around the beginning of the
2nd Temple. The Talmud in Megilla (1st 2 pages of the 2nd chapter)
discusses why the blessings of the Shmone Esrei were done in this
exact order.

Hayim Hendeles

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alex@opal.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman)
Subject: Intermarriage and the Youth Cult
Organization: Boise State University Math Dept.
Date: 10 Oct 92 11:58:09

I have detected an anti-intermarriage leaning in some posters in this
group (alert, eh?), but this attitude always seems to be implicitly or
explicitly predicated on the children that will or won't result from
this union.

But not all people who get married have children, and some know
perfectly well beforehand that they won't, and often can't.  This
includes (most?!) people in their 60's or older.

Are people who are opposed to intermarriage opposed to it in this
case?  If so, why all the emphasis on children in other threads?
--
	--alex			alex@math.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mgoller@uceng.UC.EDU (Michael Goller)
Subject: In Search of Moses Altsech
Organization: University of Cincinnati, Engineering College
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:31:48 GMT


	I am looking for Moses Altsech in pennsylvania.  If any knows him
or can contact him to caontact me i would appreciate it.  I believe he is
at the penn state business school - graduate program.

	Michael Goller
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 11 Oct 92 14:20:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Oct11.142017.9836
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization

In article <RLK.92Oct11003527@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.031033.27038@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>
>   In article <1b7sucINNhtj@agate.berkeley.edu> lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>   >
>   >Why is it always predominantly men who invoke the argument of
>   >the word of G-d and the argument that they see nothing unfair
>   >to women in Orthodox tradition?
>
>   How does the gender of the person making an argument affects the argument
>   itself ?  If the majority of persons claiming that women are degraded
>   in Orthodox tradition happen to be women, should that discredit the
>   claim itself ?
>
>It doesn't affect the argument per se, but if there's significant
>correlation between gender and which side of the argument one takes
>there certainly are grounds for at least trying to determine why that
>difference exists.

Correlation != cause&effect. Cause&effect are much more difficult to
determine than correlation.

What do you think motivates a person to provide correlations rather
than a reasoned answer to an argument ? 

>--
>ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
>bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
>harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116
>
>Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kaddish for pets?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:29:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct8.232928.27379
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!

In article <1992Oct8.190149.11311@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:
>
>Is there a rule/ruling on whether one may say Kaddish for a pet?

Hmmm... is the pet Jewish?
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: app@cyfrak.rdt.monash.edu.au (Andrew P. Paplinski)
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Organization: Monash University, Robotics and Digital Tech., Australia
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:51:23 GMT

In article <9210141442.AA25550@atc.boeing.com> <silverman@ilvc.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman @ Flight Test Instrumentation Lab)> writes:
>I suspect that the reason we castigate the Poles is that we compare their 
>response with that of the Danes.

I suspect that YOU attempt to castigate poles because it is
much easier to blame the victim than the powerful Germans.

>
>The majority of the Death Camps were built in Poland, and the Poles, if they 

If you really would like to know why GERMANS built the Death
camps in Poland, you might have tried to ask GERMANS instead of
generate a naive conjecture.

>didn't actively assist the Nazis, at least they didn't resist as much as the 
>Danes did.  The Danes, on the other hand, actively resisted the Nazis.  So did 
>the Dutch.  Anne Frank, for example, was hidden in Holland.
>

Reading Your oversimplistic and misleading statements I thought
that it might be a good idea for you to go to the library and
do some research first before you write such a fresh and novel
comment.

>Jeff Silverman
>Boeing Commercial Airplane.
>

---------------,
Andrew P. Paplinski            app@cyfrak.rdt.monash.edu.au
Dept. Robotics&Digital Technology     Phone: +61 3 573 2015
Monash University                     Fax  : +61 3 573 2345 
PO Box 197, Caulfield East, 3145     [Melbourne, AUSTRALIA] 

-- 
---------------,
Andrew P. Paplinski            app@cyfrak.rdt.monash.edu.au
Dept. Robotics&Digital Technology     Phone: +61 3 573 2015
Monash University                     Fax  : +61 3 573 2345
From: mgoller@uceng.UC.EDU (Michael Goller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Protocals of Zion problem
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:10:30 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Cincinnati, Engineering College

When I was in Los Angeles over the I went into a coffee shop/bookstore
called Big & Tall.  In their Jewish section I discovered a copy of the 
Hnry Ford Sr's THE INTERNATIONAL JEW  on the shelf
(to an Eli Wiesel book yet!).  When I took
it to the clerk and complained - explaining exactly why I was upset, she 
the book from the shelf.  I can only assume she was returning it.
	After leaving it occurred to me that perhaps the book was not
part of their stock but something someone may have brought in and left on the
shelf in an attempt to get it into distribution (and give it some 
legitimacy).

	I have two questions:

		1) Has anyone in L.A. been to this cafe and have they noticed 
			the presence of this book?
		2) Has anyone else noticed the appearance of these books
			at "mainstream" bookstore or cafes where which 
			would lend legitimacy to the books (I mean, if
			its at Walden's, it must be OK?)
		These books are appalling. Is this a new dissmination
		technique of the hatemongers?

	Michael D. Goller
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:24:30 GMT

isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin) writes:

>>>painting, after all, that "educated" generations of poles (and
>>>similar artwork did the same for others around the world) so that
>>>they were prepared to actively participate in the "final solution."
>>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>So tell us, Douglas, where can we find more about how Poles ACTIVELY
>>participated in the "final solution". Did they come-up with the idea of
>>mass extermination, did they build the death camps, did they run them?
>>Tell us their names, Douglas, so we can hunt them down, and punish them.

>To actively participate is to do what some murderous Poles did to my 
>great Uncle and his family. Shoot them in cold blood because
>they were Jew pigs. That is ACTIVELY participating in the final
>solution. If it isn't active enough for you Blasikiewicz then 
>you should awaken. It was enough for my family.

>Are you going to hunt them down Blasikiewicz?

Do you know their names, their SS unit identification, the location
and date of the crime?

>Tell us about your family. Where was it, what did it do during the
>final solution.

OK Balbin. My mother's parents both served as slave labour in Austria.
My father's father fought in September 1939, avoided capture, and
then lived in a small village with my grandmother, under the German
occupation.

>Half of my family were murdered by POLES and the other half saved
>by POLES. We still send gifts

(and brag about it)

>to those who were good, but to those
>who behaved like animals, and my father tells me they were far
>from a minority (my father was saved by POLES) they can GO TO ROT
>IN HELL.

And I am sure they will. Amen.


MB
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17269 soc.culture.polish:3053
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:42:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: blaze.1992Oct8.164258.25325
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Oct8.140658.2276@sarah.albany.edu> pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>>If you sell, distribute, promote, or display them for any reason other 
>>than to expose them for what they are and to educate people about them, 
>>then you are engaging in a political act of antisemitism.
>  I am afraid that this is an expression of your personal sensitivity.
>I doubt whether this kind of reasoning would make you the case in the US.
>(Please remember that I do not argue about Protocols themselves).
>To give you an example: Mein Kampf was not published in Poland after WWII
>(until very recently, I believe).  At the same time I can find in on the
>display in the bookstores in US (even Jewish bookstores !!!).  It is
>not a pleasure for me to see the book being offered freely and I can
>see that it is not withut impact on US society (Duke's case).  At the
>same time I respect the right of other people to express their ideas
>(however abominable they can be) and read whatever they want.

I think it's fairly obvious that Jewish bookstores that sell Mein Kampf sell
it to expose it for what it is and to educate people about it.

And Mein Kampf is not a _forgery_.  It is actually written by the person whose
name is on the title page, and he actually said and believed the things
attributed to him in it.  The Protocols is a *forgery*: it claims to be
written by Jews conspiring to control the world.  The anti-Semitism in
Mein Kampf is that Hitler is _saying_ anti-Semitic things; the anti-Semitism
in the Protocols is that it puts phony words in the mouth of Jews.  It is the
difference between me calling you dangerous, and me writing a fake letter
indicating you want to start randomly shooting people, then faking your
signature on it.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:57:51 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)

In article <emc.718593360@ro>, emc@doe (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>>I'm talking about the Jewish "universe", obviously.  Get lost.

>And so once again, in inimitable and informative manner, 
>Matthew Wiener wraps up his part of a interesting debate. 

Look brainless one, if you're pursuing non-Jewish angles to a Jewish
question as if it matters, you're in the completely wrong newsgroup.

>(Moral:  If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.)

Exactly.  Get lost.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Sermons
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:24:26
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: krovetz@sydney.cs.umass.edu's message of 12 Oct 92 08:52:52 GMT

Note the distinction between a sermon (which may have no relation to the Torah
portion) and the droshas that do. 

Daniel
(sorry for being so brief -- I'm on travel this week with a noisy phone line)
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Israeli stocks on the NYSE
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:19:19 GMT

Just a very naive question from one who doesn't understand much
about finance (never having had enough money ...:-( ):

If I buy stock in an Israeli company (thus driving up the price a little),
that helps other stockholders.  But isn't it a very inefficient way to
help the Israeli company itself?




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: BIG NOSES
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 09:41:48 GMT
Keywords: Joke!


In article <92434@netnews.upenn.edu>, hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Levene) writes:
|>
|>Well, I don't know about you, but big noses RUN in my family!!
|>
Gee, it's the little noses that always seem to run in my family. Ask my 1 year
old...
--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura Allender)
Subject: Attending a More Traditional Service
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:25:29 GMT

Today is Yom Kippur and I thought I would go to the Conservative 
Service at Hillel because I found that the Reform didn't have 
enough Hebrew or character (I'm Reform).  I really enjoyed the
Conservative morning service, and I even decided to come back next year, in 
fact, I was going to come back after Yizkor.  BUT then I was
talking to another student in the hallway (during Yizkor) and 

he said   "I went to this reform synagogue last night", 

my friend said, "oh so did we -- we went to Laura's synagogue"  

he said "it was okay, but you know the  choir and everything"

she said "yes they had a choir last night too"

he said "... it was so treif." 

How could he say that? What right does he have to judge
someone else's tradition?  What makes one tradition (especially in 
terms of music) more kosher then another? The people who attend treasure
their means of observance as much as those who attend a "traditional"
conservative service value their means of observance.

So why do I hear these criticisms again and again --
"it's just like a church", "too much English", I tend to agree
that sometimes there is too much English -- but so what if the church
also noticed that the sound of voices blending together is beautiful?!
Why should we deny ourselves the beauty and inspiration that God has
given us in the form of voices and ears?  This closed mindedness -- 
only the cantor shall sing and the congregation mumble along -- doing
it another way is not treif -- it is simply different!

At a reform synagogue we read the same Torah and many of the same
prayers, and share many sentiments. What right does anyone have to 
judge the method of observance of others? 
 
I came to a conservative service, I listened to what they liked -- and I
appreciated it, but I still love the rich choral & musical tradition
of my synagogue -- it is different, yes -- but those of us who choose
to belong have the right to voice our prayers in full chorus.
Those of you who feel its not for you,
wish us a happy new year and GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. 

L'shana Tova T'katevu
Laura Allender

 
P.S. -- Classical Music Fans:
 If you've never heard Max Janowski's compositions for Yom Kippur
prayers and other festivals check them out they are beautiful just to
listen to.
From: santen@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Marieke.van.Santen.IS-tel-7216)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Questions About a Hebrew Letter
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:04:14 GMT
Organization: T W I, Delft University of Technology

In article <1992Oct10.035516.29038@infopro.com> david@infopro.com (Dragon [David Fiedler]) writes:
>I have just 4 questions...
>
>1. What is the name of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet?
>2. How is this letter pronounced?
>3. Was it always pronounced this way? 
>4. If not, when was it changed and why?
>
>Thanks in advance...
>
>a very confused

1) The name is TAW written like this: _|~|.
2) It's pronounced like your `mamelosches' "th"
*) But if vocalised the taw can sound like the,thah,thaa,thi,theh etc.
3 & 4) I don't know (sorry)

Regards,

Mischa van Vlaardingen 
.
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Interfaith marriage
Date: 11 Oct 92 01:30:54 GMT
Reply-To: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH



Do you feel it would be 'better' for a Jewish woman to date a Jewish
man who says he's: "Marginally Reformed and leaning towards atheism"
or a Non-Jew who believes in G-d and is tolerant, supportive, and
interested in my Jewish customs, beliefs, and traditions?

Please note .. my friend said "Reformed" not "Reform".
 
Marlene J. Miller
aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
-- 
         No nation can long survive without pride in its traditions.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17558 soc.culture.polish:3155
From: 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (corrigible)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:56:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: QUCDN.92285.1256592893684
 <1992Oct3.141658.6504@Princeton.EDU> <1992Oct3.160441.27290@dxcern.cern.ch>
 <1992Oct4.015046.9057@sarah.albany.edu>
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

In article <1992Oct4.015046.9057@sarah.albany.edu>, mark@sarah.albany.edu (Mark
Steinberger) says:
>
>Arabs in Israel proper have full rights of citizenship, to the point
>that they have elected representatives in the Knesset.
>
>How many Jews were there in Poland's legislative bodies at different
>times? Can you name one prior to World War II?
>
>--Mark
Actually, I believe there were individual Jews in the Polish Parliament before
WWII. In any case the fact that the vast majority of Arabs living in Israel
today are disenfranchised makes any "we're more democratic than you" argument
rather silly. After all, the fact that some Blacks were able to vote in
South Africa before 1948 (the so-called Cape Coloureds) did not make
S. Africa democratic. And before you say that the reason the Arabs I refer
to cant vote is because the live in the West Bank and Gaza, explain why
Jews who live in those territories CAN vote and why even those Arabs who
were born in and lived in what is now Israel proper cannot.
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The I-can't-believe-they-got-a-hescher-on-this thread
Date: 9 Oct 1992 20:36:43 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Oct9.183143.14877@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
|>In article <1992Oct8.205324.18322@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
|>>Well, the way I see it, there are two issues for a *sanctified*
|>>communion wafer.
|>>
|>>2. According to Catholic belief, a sanctified communion wafer is
|>>   God. Eating it is thus a form of worship of a physical object;
|>>   this is idolatrous for a Jew or a goy. Even if a Jew doesn't
|>>   believe the wafer is God, he is performing an idolatrous
|>>   ritual; this is forbidden whether he believes in it or not.
|>>
|>>Note that both of these issues apply only to a *sanctified*
|>>communion wafer (i.e. one which has been transubstantiated
|>
|>This concerns me.
|>
|>I understand matzoh is sometimes used instead of "official communion
|>wafers."
|>
|>Now if anyone went to the local matzoh store and performed a ceremony
|>to transubstante the matzoh, (doesn't have to be mainstream
|>ceremony, could be local religion that "transubstantiates" by
|>pronouncing a religious formula over the boxes of matzoh, would that
|>make those boxes unkosher?
|>[...]
|>Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus

What is forbidden is the idolatrous ritual.  Nothing happens to the matzah.

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:21:54 GMT

In article <RLK.92Oct11140848@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.142017.9836@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>
>   In article <RLK.92Oct11003527@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>   >In article <1992Oct11.031033.27038@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>   >
>   >   In article <1b7sucINNhtj@agate.berkeley.edu> lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>   >   >
>   >   >Why is it always predominantly men who invoke the argument of
>   >   >the word of G-d and the argument that they see nothing unfair
>   >   >to women in Orthodox tradition?
>   >
>   >   How does the gender of the person making an argument affects the argument
>   >   itself ?  If the majority of persons claiming that women are degraded
>   >   in Orthodox tradition happen to be women, should that discredit the
>   >   claim itself ?
>   >
>   >It doesn't affect the argument per se, but if there's significant
>   >correlation between gender and which side of the argument one takes
>   >there certainly are grounds for at least trying to determine why that
>   >difference exists.
>
>   Correlation != cause&effect. Cause&effect are much more difficult to
>   determine than correlation.
>
>Agreed, but a correlation is certainly grounds for investigating cause
>and effect.

In the proper context - of course. But if the purpose is to discredit
the person who argues because of his gender, it is unacceptable. In such
context it is meant to arouse negative emotions in order to save one the
inconvenience of dealing directly with the argument itself.

>--
>ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
>bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
>harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116
>
>Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu

Dov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish