From: smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sang J. Moon)
Subject: Re: Macs cost too much (NOT!)
Organization: NASA GSFC Code 534.3
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:40:19 GMT

In article <CKD.92Jul25203701@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
> 
> Sang> == Sang J. Moon <smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov> 
> 
>  Sang> However, if you have checked your hard drive with ResEdit, you
>  Sang> should see that your deleted statement about there being no
>  Sang> Desktop file was incorrect.
> 
> I made no such statement.  Please be more careful in attribution.
> 
>  Sang> You conveniently deleted your original statement that my post was
>  Sang> in response to in which you made absolute statements that mac
>  Sang> applications were all point and click installations and the worst
>  Sang> case mac application installation was a few minutes.  I was
>  Sang> giving examples to prove the point that installation takes just
>  Sang> as much time and effort for either machines in general.
> 
> I made no such statement.  Please be more careful in attribution.

Sorry.  Let me show who made the statement to what I was posting the
examples for.

In article <ewright.711925511@convex.convex.com>, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
> Macintosh: Drag an application icon into a folder or (worst case)
> double-click to run the installer.  
> 
> PC: Read the documentation to figure out the command line to run
> the installer.  (By the time you've finished this step, the Mac
> user is already finished.)  Type the command line and run the
> installer.  Now you have to install the icons in the Program
> Manager and perhaps create a new program group.  Then check the
> CONFIG.SYS, WIN.INI, and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to see what modifications
> the installer made there.  Then check every other piece of software
> to make sure it still works with the modifications.  If it doesn't,
> call technical support and try to work out some reasonable compromise
> in the CONFIG.SYS, WIN.INI, and AUTOEXEC.BAT that will allow both
> programs to run.
> 
> Bestcase time for the Mac -- a few seconds.  
> Bestcase time for the PC -- a few minutes.
> Worstcase time for the Mac -- a few minutes.  
> Worstcase time for the PC -- several weeks.

In article <CKD.92Jul25203701@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>  Sang> You can always find exceptions for specific software, but
>  Sang> installation of software in general takes just about the same
>  Sang> time on either machine.
> 
> *In general* it takes more time to set up an application or function on
> a PC-compatible machine.  Certainly there are *some* PC programs that
> are easier to set up than *some* Mac programs; I don't deny that.
> However, using MS applications as an example of how tough Mac programs
> are to set up is like using nuclear bombers as an example of how all
> airplanes are bad and man was never meant to fly.
> 
>  Sang> This in turn is to point out that time "fiddling" with a PC is
>  Sang> not really a cost factor because in the long run it is
>  Sang> insignificant, and just as much time is spent on "fiddling" with
>  Sang> the mac albeit not in the exactly same ways (different machines
>  Sang> after all).
> 
> It is a cost factor.  I administer a network of about 20-30 Macs, and
> one PC (as well as a number of Unix machines, routers, and whatnot).
> The PC is the damndest headache of them all, administratively.
[stuff deleted about how much harder it is to install a CD-ROM on a
486/33 than a mac]

The point I am making is that the installation is a one-time deal on
a PC, and that overall, the time spent on either machine "fiddling" is
the same.

Example:
We have a center-wide mail system called Goddard mail which is archaic,
but it has a huge user base.  One of the things I do is connect macs and
PCs to this mail system.

Connecting a Mac to the Goddard mail system via the ROLM network:
1. Connect the cable from the modem port to the ROLM phone.
2. Install White Knight.
3. Configure White Knight with proper communications parameters and to
   capture text as a MSWD file.
4. Create a White Knight procedure to log into Goddard mail.
5. Configure Microsoft Word so that the default font is nonproportional.
6. Train the user to use Goddard mail with White Knight and Word.

Connecting a PC to the Goddard mail system via the ROLM network:
1. Connect the cable from the serial port to the ROLM phone.
2. Install Smartcom.
3. Configure Smartcom with proper communications parameters.
4. Create a Smartcom macro to log into Goddard mail.
5. Train the user to Goddard mail with Smartcom and WordPerfect.

We're not doing anything too fancy, and so far there are no significant
difference in time supporting PCs and macs.  Of I still get my share of
simple questions for wither machine.

> --
> Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
>    ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
>   point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
>          to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155

Sang J. Moon
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc