HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grant_jo@ripple.enet.dec.com (Joel Grant)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Back in harness
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:33:53 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Back, after several weeks in New England on business and a
week of vacation.  Vacationing with my good buddy
Chuck Crenshaw.   ;^)

An off-line correspondent - Tony Beason - has asked me to
ask the group a question.  Tony can read this file but
for obscure technical reasons cannot post.

The question: Has anyone read a book called _The Rather Narrative_
by Monte Evans?  It is published by Barbara Books.

Quoting from Tony's e-mail:

"... (Monte Evans) wants to find out CBS Newsmans (was or was not)
in Dealy Plaza on November 22, 1963.   ... Mr. Evans goes as far
as saying that Rather might be a paid agent for the CIA.  Mr. Evans
goes into how the American media just tells the public what the
government wants us to know and that the CIA has infiltrated the
media and has placed paid agents in high places to control news
stories that we read everyday."

"We all know that after the assassination, Dan Rather of CBS tried
to purchase the Zapruder film from the Zapruders, CBS authorized him
to bid no higher than $10,000 for the film, but when "Life" magazine
outbid CBS, Rather (was pissed offf) that he didn't get the film
(and) ran right back to the CBS studios, he went on the air and stated
that he had seen the Zapruder film and then when the President was
shot in the head, that he rocketed forward instead of backward."

Anyway, Tony wonders if anyone has read this book and, if so,
what opinions do people have?

Starting Wednesday, we shall take a detailed look at Dr. Lattimer's
book.  Should be fun!

Joel
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:51:28 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands

In <schuck.714954738@sfu.ca> schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck) writes:

[...]
>>Who? How many? Did they know Ruby so that they could identify him? 

>If you read the Warren Commission Hearings you could get their names.

>The Police Officer who ran to the top of the grassy knoll said the man
>who had Fake SS id looked like Ruby.

>Victoria Adams, a TSBD employee, said Ruby was outside the TSBD immediately
>after the assassination questioning some of the witnesses.

	I don't get it. Ruby was at the grassy knoll AND at Houston/Elm
	at about the same time?

>From Warren Commission Hearings Vol. 6 pp 386-393:

>Miss Adams: There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston
>            and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat,
>            and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was,
>            because he was questioning people as if he was a police
>            officer....and this man was asking questions very
>            effaciously  and we said, "I guess
>            he may be a reporter," and later on on television, 
>            there was a man that looked very similar to him, 
>            and he was identified as Ruby.




-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:48:32 GMT

ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE) writes:


>> 
>>Thats the exact same argument you quickly dismiss when Oswalds
>>alibi is discussed.
>> 
>>How come you so readily accept it for Ruby's alibi?
>> 

>The argument is the same. No one knew where Oswald was between 12:10 and 12:30.
>Therefore, it was possible for him to be on the 6th floor at that time.

You miss the point [again].

There were witnesses who saw Oswald other than on 6th floor before and
after the assassination.

There were witnesses who saw Ruby in the Dallas Morning News before and
after the assassination.

There were *no* witness who saw Oswald on the 6th floor
during the assassination.

However, there *were* witnesses who saw Ruby in Dealey Plaza when he
was supposed to be at the Dallas Morning News.

Thats the crucial difference.


>Concluding that Ruby was at the Dallas Morning News for the full 25 minutes
>between 12:20 and 12:45 requires more input to be complete. You'll note that
>I did ask the question of how much work was done on the ad when Newnam saw
>it. If alot, then Ruby was most likely there the full time. 

You sure are quick to dismiss the eyewitness accounts who put Ruby
in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination.
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:30:40 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


[Mitchell S Todd] 
[bruce:]

||Thanks to his announcement in the US Embassy that he planned to
||pass such information on, the military could go ahead and change the
||codes and frequencies immediately instead of waiting until Oswalds
||defection could be found out through intelligence contacts.
|
|	The US would have known of Oswald's defection fairly quickly
|	and would have had enough warning to change call signs, etc,
|	before any real harm could be done. The military wouldn't
|	have to rely on Oswald's announcement to give them an excuse
|	to change codes anyway.

I think the point is that anyone with Oswald's information, that attempted to
or said he was going to defect would normally send off alarm bells from the
state department to the CIA to military intelligence. Quite likely, Oswald was
attempting to tell secrets to the Enemey, which is probably against the law. 
At the very least, anyone doing what Oswald did would be thrown in jail or
investigated in the Cold War spirit of the times. Instead of any likely hostile
treatment, Oswald gets treated with kids gloves, gets visas, and even gets
funds on his return to the US. All this to me is extremly suspicious.
-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: jamesp@agora.rain.com (James Price)
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap (NBC) Sam leaps to Oswald
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:39:37 GMT

>
>For those interested in Quantum Leap on NBC this fall, watch for the
>season opener in a few weeks. (Date unknown). At the end of last season,
>Sam Becket "leaps" into Lee Harvey Oswald's "body" just before his photo
>was taken that morning in front of his house. (Who took that photo anyway,
>mother, wife,...) I have no idea where the story line is heading, or who
>is the technical advisor(s) are for this episode. Some of you may be 
>interested enough in the subject to click it on....I know I am. =)
>
>
>

  think of the possibilities!

    Sam could save Kennedy! And he could save Oswald, both of them.
Maybe even save Officer J. D. Tippit too, and Jackie's dress.
what are the scenarios?

   1) He can keep Kennedy from Being Murdered
       a) as Oswald he fails to take any action to murder Kennedy
       b) as Oswald he prevents some person(s) from murdering Kennedy

   2) He cannot keep Kennedy from Being Murdered:
       a) as Oswald he murders Kennedy
       b) as Oswald he fails to stop some person(s) from murdering Kennedy

    its troubling to consider that the show could let Kennedy live.
It would have a hollow ring to it, if you ask me. But what a thought,
the world that _could_ have been had not the shining knight been murdered,
and trappings. No military-industrial porkbarrel (no 50K + 2M deaths in Nam),
no Second Civil War, no Nixon, no LBJ, no Hoover, no '63 Overthrow!

  
   I'm not sure which is the most interesting. Or most likely. I do know
one thing: NBC is telling the story.  

   I'll be watching alright......
James
Net: jamesp@agora.rain.com        "Justice is incidental to law and order."
Globe: 45 31 25 N 122 40 30 W                          - J. Edgar Hoover
Unity not uniformity | NBC = GE   "Reading musses up my mind." - Henry Ford
-- 
jamesp   Never let anyone persuade you to smoke even one marijuana cigarette.
   @     It is pure poison.  -- "Living Death", Bureau of Narcotics, 1965
 agora   ...I tried smoking marijuana one time and I remained very lucid.
rain.com  I did not blow up.... --  William F. Buckley, Jr. to Congress 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd)
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Applied Upyerstemmatey Corp
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:04:00 GMT

In article <schuck.714184615@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>Mitchell S Todd  writes: > 
>David Wright >>

>>>or gets venereal disease in "the line of duty"?

>>	Or he just got VD and convinced the doctor/corpsman to add
>>	"in the line of	duty" so Oswald would stay out of trouble?

>Sure Mitchell. It happens all the time. The medical records of the
>Marine Corps are littered with Marines who caught VD 'in the line of
>duty'. [Really heavy sarcasm]

	How many Marine's medical records have you inspected, Bruce?


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  \__ mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu / / | \ \\ 	      Ambiguity is the      ______////
    \__ Mitchell S Todd    /    |    \\   Devil's tetherball     ______////
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From: scott@nv10.uswnvg.com (Scott Eckelman)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:45:15 GMT
Organization: US West NewVector, Inc., Bellevue, WA

In article <17ud2aINNgg1@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright) writes:
>
>In article <31AUG199214423269@rigel.tamu.edu> mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:
>|In article <schuck.715193508@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>|
>|>Bruce Schuck (me) >> & >>>>
>|
>|>>>>>Sure Mitchell. It happens all the time. The medical records of the
>|>>>>>Marine Corps are littered with Marines who caught VD 'in the line of
>|>>>>>duty'. [Really heavy sarcasm]
>|
>|>I'm still waiting for some proof that 'regular' Marines are allowed to
>|>claim they 'caught VD in the line of duty'.
>|
>|	The burden of proof is still on you, matey. You are the person
>|	who claims that the "VD in the line of duty" would be a tag
>|	unique to some sort of intelligence agent. Just saying "well,
>|	this says that Oswald caught VD in the line of duty [and does
>|	anyone exactly what Oswald had? Gonnonrhea?], so he must have
>|	been a secret agent" doesn't cut it.
>
>I think it cuts it just fine. Forms and regulations are designed to
>give information. If the form says he got VD in the line of duty, then
>I imagine, untill told otherwise, that that is correct. Why would
>anyone without some evidence believe otherwise? Why would one suspect
>that the doctor would lie and potentially get himself in trouble? What
>purpose does it serve to second guess the evidence based on your own
>bias? 

Actually, Line-of-Duty investigations aren't that accurate.  Any time
there is an accident with injury, an LOD investigation is required.  If
the finding is Not in the Line of Duty, punishment of some kind is 
usually administered, either Article 15 punishment (fines, and possibly
demotion), or if serious enough, Court Martial (possibly jail).
Many commanders consider VD and other minor infractions to
be In the Line of Duty just to avoid administering punishment for an
offence which didn't harm anyone.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:22:00 GMT

In article <schuck.714941312@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE) writes:
> 
>>> 
>>>Thats the exact same argument you quickly dismiss when Oswalds
>>>alibi is discussed.
>>> 
>>>How come you so readily accept it for Ruby's alibi?
>>> 
> 
>>The argument is the same. No one knew where Oswald was between 12:10 and 12:30.
>>Therefore, it was possible for him to be on the 6th floor at that time.
> 
>You miss the point [again].

No. You miss the point [again].

> 
>There were witnesses who saw Oswald other than on 6th floor before and
>after the assassination.

There is only one witness that you provided and she was uncertain of the time.

After the assassination he left the scene of the crime and there were witnesses
who did see him leave. I have no argument with that.

> 
>There were witnesses who saw Ruby in the Dallas Morning News before and
>after the assassination.
> 
>There were *no* witness who saw Oswald on the 6th floor
>during the assassination.

This does NOT prove that Oswald wasn't on the 6th floor. If every criminal
had to be seen at the place of the crime, then our prisons would have alot
less people in them.

> 
>However, there *were* witnesses who saw Ruby in Dealey Plaza when he
>was supposed to be at the Dallas Morning News.
>

Who? How many? Did they know Ruby so that they could identify him? If Ruby
was there and they didn't know who he was, then he would have had to do
something for them to remember him. Otherwise, he's basically another face in
the crowd. But, then if he had done anything to call attention to himself, the
witnesses should have told the police.

>Thats the crucial difference.
> 
>>Concluding that Ruby was at the Dallas Morning News for the full 25 minutes
>>between 12:20 and 12:45 requires more input to be complete. You'll note that
>>I did ask the question of how much work was done on the ad when Newnam saw
>>it. If alot, then Ruby was most likely there the full time. 
> 
>You sure are quick to dismiss the eyewitness accounts who put Ruby
>in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination.

Because I haven't heard them with their proof. If they (or you) can provide
me with sufficient evidence, then I'll believe he was there. You'll note that
I have said that there is a 25 minute period when he could have been at places
other than the Dallas Morning News.

It still seems that you have a problem with proving someone was somewhere and
showing that it was possible for someone to be somewhere. These are two
different concepts.

Tony Simon
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd)
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Applied Upyerstemmatey Corp
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 21:10:00 GMT

Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>Mitchell S Todd  writes: > & >>>
>Bruce Schuck (me) >> 

>>>>>or gets venereal disease in "the line of duty"?

>>>>	Or he just got VD and convinced the doctor/corpsman to add
>>>>	"in the line of	duty" so Oswald would stay out of trouble?

>>>Sure Mitchell. It happens all the time. The medical records of the
>>>Marine Corps are littered with Marines who caught VD 'in the line of
>>>duty'. [Really heavy sarcasm]

>>	How many Marine's medical records have you inspected, Bruce?

>Just one. It was Oswalds.

>How about you Mitchell. How many of you inspected?

	One. Oswald's. But then again, I'm not the one who's claiming
	that it's an anomaly explainable only by assuming that
	Oswald was a spy. It's the burden of proof kind of thing.

>Since the publication of Marrs book, how many Marines have volunterred
>that they too caught VD in the 'line of duty'? :)

	How many people have checked?

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\__                      \___/~/|\~\___/                              _______/
  \__ mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu / / | \ \\ 	      Ambiguity is the      ______////
    \__ Mitchell S Todd    /    |    \\   Devil's tetherball     ______////
      \___________________/           \\____________________________////
         \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/_____________\\\///////////////////////////
                           /////\\\\\\\\\\\    
                       	

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.072333.29007@fys.ruu.nl>, sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries) writes...
>According to several accounts Ruby was sighted during the events
>at Dealey Plaza. For instance, a Mrs. Mercer saw him unloading a guy
>with a gun case at the other side of the grassy knoll (Jim Garisson,
>On the trail of the assassins). There are also several photographs
>showing a fellow who looks like Ruby. But...  in Summers' Conspiracy
>you'll find that Ruby was at the office of one of the Dallas newspapers
>(I believe it was the Dallas Morning News) placing an ad. I'm not sure
>whether there are witnesses accounting for his whole stay there, but it
>seems that both before and after the assassination he was seen there.
>I wonder if there's more on that. One thing is for sure, it's only a
>few minutes from the newspaper's building to Dealey Plaza.

According to a Dallas Morning News story Section 1 page 19 from Nov. 26, 1963,
Ruby entered the ad department at 12:10 pm. Donald Campbell was sure of the
time because he looked at the clock. Deadline was at noon and he said Ruby
was usually late, so that's why he noticed the time. Ruby talked to him for
awhile and Campbell left Ruby in the office at 12:20 pm.

Between 12:20 and 12:45 nobody confirms seeing Ruby although some persons
vaguely said they believed Ruby sat at John Newnam's desk to layout his own
ad.

Newnam returned to his desk "about 12:45" and noted Ruby sitting at the desk
working on the ad layout. Apparently Newnam hadn't heard about the assassination
yet. Coley (another ad rep) came in around 1 pm and said that Kennedy was
shot. Ruby was described as looking extermely shaken. The three men went
to Promotion director Dick Jeffrey's office to watch the T.V. Later, Ruby
returned to Newnam's office to work on the ad, but decided to cancel the ad
after hearing others call Newnam over the phone to cancel their ads.

So, it is possible for Ruby to have been at Dealey Plaza (the Dallas Morning
News was only four blocks from the assassination site). However, Ruby would
have had to make it there, do whatever he supposedly did, then return and work
on the layout. I guess the question I would have for Newnam is "How much work
was done on the layout when he saw Ruby?" If there was alot, then it's unlikely
Ruby was near the site.

One argument against Ruby being there would be that he had to leave the DMN
at 12:20 pm to get to Dealey Plaza. However, Kennedy was supposed to have been
at Dealey Plaza earlier than the 12:30 pm time that he did arrive, so Ruby's
timing would have been off for whatever "work" he had to do there.

Tony Simon
From: indiana@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Judith Campbell Exner
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:12:05 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


    Judith Campbell Exner, JFK mistress and presumed Giancana mistress, and 
admitted go-between between the two men, is scheduled to be on the Larry King
show this week.(CNN, 9 p.m.EDT.)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrie Aldrich)
Subject: UFO/FASCIST/NAZI conspiracy note
Organization: Vision Graphics
			  Dover, NH
			  USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:13:32 GMT

[ .. post omitted .. ]

The 'codeword'  "KgVlevp39mmI2" is obviously (?) a UNIX encrypted
password.  Ha ha.  Anyone run 'Crack4.1' against it?  This guy is
nuts.

-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,ne.news
From: wkm@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (william.k.mcnally)
Subject: FREE CALL - FREE VIDEO
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:31:08 GMT

A free copy of "The Greening of the Planet Earth"
can be obtained by calling 1-800-732-1330 before
the August deadline. Produced by Western Fuels
Association, this 30-minute video demonstrates
that a global increase in carbon dioxide will 
bring many benefits.
From: spinoza@next10pg2.wam.umd.edu (J. Skorecki-Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Masons
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:31:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.131724.2047@wkuvx1.bitnet> kinnema@wkuvx1.bitnet  
(Mark Kinney, Attorney at Chaos) writes:
a bit deleted.............

> > I have heard that
> > Jack the Ripper was actualy a Mason(this is doubtful though).
> 
> According to an episode of "In Search Of" I managed to catch this
> summer, Jack was supposedly someone in the Royal Family (I forget who,
> but someone can fill that in) and therefore almost certainly a Mason
> (most important people were).  Evidence in favor of his being a Mason
> was the fact that at one incident, a Masonic phrase of some sort was
> written on the walls near the victim, and washed off by a
> fellow-mason before many others arrived, in order to preserve the
> secrets of the lodge.
Well, actually, the message made a reference to "Juwes" (weren't these the  
architects of Solomons Temple, or something?), and the fact that they  
would not be blamed for the killings. The message was ordered erased by  
the police official in charge of the case [who probably figured that the  
message referred not to Masons, but to Jews, the official's  theory being  
that one could not expect antisemites to be intelligent enough to spell  
correctly] was , to prevent attacks against the Jewish community of London  
(blood libels being the sort of thing that was still pretty popular in  
Europe at the time). 




j skorecki-weiss
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns