HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leichter@zodiac.rutgers.edu
Subject: Re: Two-pass C compilers
Reply-To: leichter@zodiac.rutgers.edu
Organization: Rutgers University Computing Services
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:59:23 GMT
Keywords: design

One of the problems with the definitions of "pass" that people seem to
have in mind from historical referents is that they are too
technology-specific.  In the old days, a "pass" required you to start the
paper tape over or take the deck of cards out of the output stacker and
feed them back into the input stacker.  To this day, people think in terms
of file I/O.  Suppose I used a memory-mapping call to map the entire
source code into memory.  Would I then have a 0-pass compiler?

I'd like to suggest a different style of definition.  Divide the compiler
into blocks, each of which has the property that once exited, the block
will never be re-entered.  A "strong pass" is a block whose running time
is (at least) linear in the size of the input.  A "pass" is a block whose
running time is (at least) linear in the size of the "meaningful" input -
that is, the input less comments, for most languages.  A "weak pass" is a
block whose running time is (at least) linear in the size of the tokenized
input.

A strong pass captures the old notion of actually reading the input file
again.  Very few, if any, few modern compilers have more than one strong
pass (the entire compiler).  Passes, however, are common - in stand-alone
C pre-processors, for example.  (Actually, C pre-processors are much more
complex, since their output, after macro expansion and #include
processing, can be much longer than their input, even leaving out
comments.  For the purposes of these definitions, the "input" used must
include all source text that will ever be seen, so the #include's don't
matter.  For typical uses, the macro expansions won't make much
difference.)  Modern compilers that allow arbitrary definition after use
would probably use an extra weak pass.  A simple-minded linker fixup
(which scanned the entire executable) would, in some sense, be a weak
pass.  (Actually, of course, every linker is already a "weak pass" in this
sense - the issue is whether the linker has more than one of them.)

Note that a pass (of any kind) is not intended to tell you anything about
running time.  A "one pass" compiler may re-examine the entire text of
individual functions, say, many times.  Passes have to do with the
possible need of the compiler to go back arbitrarily far in the input.

							-- Jerry
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Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
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Newsgroups: comp.compilers
From: magras@cps.msu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.compilers
Subject: What kind of grammar does kermit "DEC style" parser use?
Keywords: parse, question, comment
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:22:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: comp.92-08-139
Reply-To: magras@cps.msu.edu
Organization: Compilers Central

The subject line pretty much says it all. What kind of grammar drives the
so-called "DEC style" parser used by most kermit programs? (e.g. "set
parameter ?", info displayed, then "set parameter" appears on command line
with cursor after it) Grammars used by particular implementation(s) would
be appreciated, suggestions on how to do it with less than 4K to allocate
to it also helpful.  In case you haven't guessed, I am using assembly
language, Apple 2/ProDOS/6502 in particular. I have to cut down on the
memory because my Kermit implementation will support full 9024 byte long
packets or windowing with up to 2048 byte (2K) long packets.

Thanks in advance,

J.C. Magras

 magras@cps.msu.edu. | 517 337 2267 | 1736 Burcham Dr., E. Lansing, MI 48823
[A reimplementation of DCL for Unix called VCL that I saw a while ago used
flex and yacc, but the grammar was not surprisingly pretty ugly.  I'd
expect Kermit's parsers probably use a hard coded driver running from
hand-written tables. -John]
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Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
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From: lagemaat@cs.utwente.nl (Jeroen van de Lagemaat)
Subject: LOTOS
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:00:29 GMT

Dear all,

At the moment it seems that a lot of people are interested in getting
a grasp of what formal methods are about.

As a result of the ESPRIT 2304 project Lotosphere the following information
is available:
- a LOTOS based methodology for the design of complex hard/software systems
- Tools to support Lotos
- Experience from industrial partners in applying the above to both
  ISDN and OSI system design

In Sept 1992 (14-16) a workshop will take place in Pisa where results 
are presented.


The results are otherwise available in the form of:
- several european companies and universities which can introduce you
  to LOTOS, the method, tools in the form of cooperation, consultancy
  and courses (e.g. on LOTOS what, how, why, tools, introduction in
    excisting development environment etc).
- Several contributions to conferences, such as Forte 92, PSTV 92,
  RACE Telecommunications Software Engineering Symposium 92, FME 93.
- Tools: these are available both "as is" or "maintained" from several
  companies and universities.


Anyone interested in the above can contact me. I will provide you with 
the information you require and/or with the coordinates of relevant people.



-- 
    ___
 __/   \__________  Jeroen van de Lagemaat    <lagemaat@cs.utwente.nl>
|  \___/          |         
|___     __   ___ | University of Twente     
| |  |  /  \ (__  | Tele-Informatics & Open Systems
| |__|__\__/____) | P.O. Box 217  NL-7500 AE Enschede  The Netherlands
|_________________| tel. +31 53 893684              tfx. +31 53 333815

                    Humour, you're making me laugh.
                                    - Herman Finkers, Dutch comedian -

Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: schuette@wl.com (Wade Schuette)
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Keywords: Piaget Relativity Concept formation
Organization: Warner Lambert / Parke-Davis
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:25:11 GMT

In regard to teaching or not teaching math and physics at a young
age:  Some concepts solidify early and this seems worth taking
into account.  Some of these things may in fact relate to 
permanent neurophysiological changes in brain structure.

For example I've been told that brain structure changes upon learning
ANY second language, but that has to take place by about age 12. If you
put it off till after that, (eg, most Americans) it becomes much harder
to learn ANY other language.   Maybe is true for computer languages too.

Conceputally, Piaget found that young children didn't "understand" the
constancy of volume, and would think that a tall-thin glass , filled 
in front of them from a short wide glass, had MORE orange juice in it
than the short one had.   Finally at some age (around 8?) they "learn"
that volume is constant and independent of shape.  

Unfortunately, that lesson is only true in domains like the surface of
the earth.  When these students get to courses like Special or General
Relativity, it's OBVIOUS to them that volume is constant and for some a
major psychological hurdle to try to deal with volumes that are shape
dependent.  If we'd caught them at age 7 and kept that mind alive, they'd
be better at Physics and related mathmatics, No?

My sense is that mathematics should be taught explicitly at as early
an age as possible ... provided an appropriate teacher or software is
available to teach APPROPRIATE math.  This does NOT mean "arithmetic".
It may mean topology.  I think the world most mathematicians operate in
bears very little resemblance to what is taught in school as "math".
==================================================================
R. Wade Schuette         schuette@wl.com    Ann Arbor, MI, USA



-- 
==================================================================
R. Wade Schuette         schuette@wl.com    Ann Arbor, MI, USA
From: mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:26:52 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Aug07.095526.29006@cadlab.sublink.org> martelli@cadlab.sublink.org (Alex Martelli) writes:
>hcc@cs.olemiss.edu (Conrad Cunningham) writes:
>	...
>:late '70s.  His argument went something like this.  There should not be
>:undergraduate MATHEMATICS majors.  Mathematically oriented students should
>:study something "concrete" at the undergraduate level---e.g., physics,
>:engineering, or computing.  Once a student has some understanding of
>:the the types of practical problems that mathematics must deal, then 
>:he or she is ready for more "abstract" studies.
>
>This idea has one glaring problem -- that, for some still not understood
>reason, mathematicians, like chess champions, may well be "child
>prodigies", doing their greatest work at surprising early ages!  The
>romantic figure of Evariste Galois is no doubt the most striking example
>(what with death in duel and all that), but it's far from an isolated
>one.  Just imagine if somebody DID manage to divert people in their late
>teens/early twenties from 'more "abstract" studies' until they are 'ready'
>for them - AND it DOES turn out that this age is indeed the most
>prolific one for a certain sort of creative mathematical geniuses!  What
>a waste, what a sad 'might have been' for all of mathematics...
 
   Its a surprising thing that there are no child prodigies in mathematics.
Galois was the youngest mathematician I've heard of that made a major
contribution to the subject. And he could hardly have been considered 
a child. There are child prodigies in music, art, computer programming
(especailly in assembly language) and other fields -- but not mathematics
and physics. The ability to think in mathematical terms grows with age.
   A child who could become a professional mathematician might be 
discouraged from doing after not doing well in arithmetic. I am very
much opposed to even telling children they are studying mathematics 
in elementary school. The methods used to teach children are not
mathematical. Children who don't do well in arithmetic should be told
that they will understand math better when they get older.
   If a child does show an ability and an interest in mathematics
at an early age, then he should certainly be encouraged to do so.
Using a computer can be a big help here.
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Seventh ASEET Call for Papers
Originator: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:29:25 GMT

Seventh Annual ASEET Symposium
Call for Papers

12-14 January 1993
Monterey, CA


Ada education and training must focus on the use of good software
engineering techniques and practices in order to be effective.  Ada by
itself does not guarantee good software design or development.  Only
when Ada is taught in the context ofgood software engineering
practices do gains accrue.  In order to enhance the development of Ada
software engineering education and training, the Ada Software
Engineering Education and Training(ASEET) Team is sponsoring the
SixthAnnual ASEET Symposium.  This year's theme is"Ada Education and
Training:  Experiences and Techniques."
 
Papers which describe new software engineering education and training
techniques using Ada or report on teaching experiences using good
software engineering concepts (including sample courseware, completed
projects, and course syllabi) are sought.
 
Topics and areas of interest include:
    o   Computer-Aided Software Engineering
    o   Development of an Ada Curriculum
    o   Training the Trainer
    o   Transitioning to Ada
    o    Ada Training in the DoD
    o   Object-Oriented Requirements Analysis and Design
 
Authors are invited to prepare an extended abstract (2-4 pages) and
submit five copies of the abstract to the Program Chair by 15 September
1992.  Authors of accepted papers will be notified by 5 October 1992
with the full papers in camera ready form due to the Program Chair by
11 December 1992.  Proceedings will be published and distributed at
the symposium.
 
Papers must be original and of high quality.  All submitted abstracts
will be anonymously refereed for their significance, clarity and
originality.  Submission of an abstract is considered evidence that
the author has obtained clearance from his organization for
publication, that the author (if selected) will prepare a full paper
and present it at the symposium, and that the paper will not be
presented at any other symposium.
 
Program Chair:
 
Catherine W. McDonald
Institute for Defense Analyses
1801 N. Beauregard Street
Alexandria, VA 22311-1772
703-845-6626
703-845-6848 (fax)
mcdonald@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu
 


Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: chavey@jalapeno.cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey)
Subject: Independent study courses on learning a language.
Organization: Beloit College, Beloit, Wisc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:30:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.152916.26988@hellgate.utah.edu>
zachary%denali.utah.edu@cs
.utah.edu (Joe Zachary) writes:
>
>I am working toward replacing our traditional lecture-based classes in
>Fortran and C with classes in which students will read textbooks, use
>interactive tutorials, do substantial hands-on work, and ask questions
>of lab assistants.  I'd appreciate hearing from any of you that are
>doing or contemplating similar things.
>
>                       - Joe Zachary

I responded with the following (repeated in entirety because this was
a few weeks ago):

I am also considering doing this, and would like to hear how your
approach goes.  For many years, Queens College of CUNY has done this.
Their approach in teaching languages (after the first one) is that students
take a 1 credit course as an independent project, working off of a tutorial
manual, with programming expected of them.  The students must also pass a
final exam.  For more details on their experiences, you might wish to write
to Dr. Seymour Goodman at Queens (Flushing, NY 11367)
        email: sagqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.

Actually, what I posted then had an incorrect email address for Prof.
Goodman. The posting above has the error corrected.

--Darrah Chavey
  Beloit College
Xref: sparky comp.edu:1292 sci.edu:930 bionet.jobs:433 misc.jobs.offered:10188 ieee.announce:73 comp.org.acm:741
From: stauchmo@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Marc Stauch)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: request
Summary: projects, platforms, reports
Keywords: request
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:21:51 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany


I am intersted in projects engaged in educational use of computing,
any results, reports, platforms and further information would be very
welcome.
The topics of relevance are: multimedia, remote teaching, virtual
classroom situations and networks.

Please answer by mail to: stauchmo@cs.tu-berlin.de
Thank you.

Marc Stauch.
From: nipun@skorpio.usask.ca (Nipun Basil)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Program in Network Management
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:36:09 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

I am interested in taking up a Master's program in Computer Networks Management.
I am basically looking towards a syllabi that has courses on networks, distributed
systems, design and maintenance of networks and their management. Is there any
University in the U.S that offers such a program? I would appreciate relevant
addresses and other sources of information.

Thanks in advance.

Nipun
nipun@skorpio.usask.ca
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: ACM Curriculum Proposal --- some remarks.
Date: 15 Aug 1992 14:01:49 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

KlausF@OSGO.ks.he.schule.de writes:
>The proposal tries to design a CS-course which is similar in level and
>methodology to ``typical high school pre-college science courses''. The
>course should concentrate on ``fundamental scientific principles and
>concepts'' in the field.
>
>Who doesn't agree with these goals.

I don't, for one.

(With apologies to the people who've heard me say this before:)  High school
is the place for learning how to learn, and learning to love learning.  It
doesn't matter so much about any specific facts you might learn.  This is
true even in "pre-college science courses"; the main point of high school
physics had better be to get the kids to love physics--love its methodology
as well as its content--and it wouldn't matter so much if all the physics
they learn is wrong (e.g., Newtonian).

In high school, if one happens to be interested in language, e.g. English,
there are lots of opportunities for a total immersion in a kind of
intellectual apprenticeship, such as the school newspaper, the yearbook,
acting in the school play, etc.  If you remember anything with pleasure
from your own high school years it's probably an activity of that sort.

If you happen to be interested in math or science, there are damn few
such activities.  There might possibly be a model rocket club, but for the
most part you can't do modern science -- REAL science, done for the sake
of the work, not duplicating someone else's work to prove you know how --
in a high school lab.

The big exception is computing.  Many kids, through programming, can and do
learn to love formal mathematical thinking.  They stay up all night getting
their program to work.  That's the *only* important thing that computing
has to offer in high school education!  Some of these kids may end up staying
with computing; if so, they'll have the "fundamental scientific principles
and concepts" in college.  Others may get interested in some other, related
scientific area.  But we got them hooked by letting them program!

The ACM curriculum wants to destroy all this by taking the fun out of
programming and making it feel like a trigonometry class.  It's full of
Shalt-Not style rules, RAM/ROM/CPU buzz words to memorize, and on top of
that it enshrines an obsolete, low-level idea of programming languages
(no modern language has type declarations or loop constructs).

This is Physics Envy and as usual it's misguided because physics doesn't
work the way the ACM thinks it does either.

P.S. -- I do agree completely with all the detailed criticisms in Klaus's
message, also.  Too many languages, too much architecture, etc.  All very
true.  But it's not surprising to me that those bad details come out of what
I consider a bad overall goal.
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: Seek new career in SOFTWARE CONFIGURATION (1)
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 18:25:13 GMT

Greetings everyone,

I'm exploring a new career in software configuration and would
like to "talk" to people already in this field. So far I
understand software configuration is similar to hardware
configuration. Essentially it is breaking down a large
amount of information into subgroups of info that are
easy to revise, track, and build from.

Does anyone have a job like this?
What kind of background would this require?

Is a degree in CS necessary?

What would be the salary range of this position? I work in
San Francisco, CA.


(Currently I work at a company which uses language C and unix)


I'd really appreciate any info you could send my way!


If you are interested please see "Seek career in SOFTWARE
CONFIGURATION (2) for a more detailed discussion.


Thanks,

Vivian
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: Seek new career in SOFTWARE CONFIGURATION (2)
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 18:26:35 GMT



>I'm exploring a new career in software configuration and would
>like to "talk" to people already in this field. So far I
>understand software configuration is similar to hardware
>configuration. Essentially it is breaking down a large
>amount of information into subgroups of info that are
>easy to revise, track, and build from.
>
>Does anyone have a job like this?
>What kind of background would this require?
>
>(Currently I work at a company which uses language C and unix)
>
>I'd really appreciate any info you could send my way!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Vivian
>
>

You are far-sighted in your choice of career.  From my own experiences, it
is (not quite) universally thought that Software Configuration Management (SCM)
is a necessary evil somewhere between between paying taxes and dying (the
only other two things anyone ever HAS to do).

I have been involved in SCM for over a year and half have learned that there 
are:
  1. No universally accepted SCM methods and procedures.

  2. Engineers (for the most part) do not want to think about SCM if they
      don't have to.  They would rather be doing "real" work.

  3. Substitute the word "Managers" for "Engineers" in number 2.

  4. SCM is generally added as an after-thought after a project has been 
     started, and hacked-on as development proceeds.

  5. If there is an SCM system in place, it is usually so hard-wired, 
     obfuscated, confusing, difficult to use and difficult to maintain
     that only one or two people knows what's really going on.

  6. No SCM system, no matter how good, will prevent someone from causing
     problems.  A policy is also needed.

Having said all that, there are some areas of my company where real efforts
are under way to try and find out the best CM systems available.  There is
a real need for people who understand the issues involved with software 
management (source control, configuration, building, archiving, etc...).
Since this has traditionally not been a highly sought-after engineering 
specialization, there aren't a lot of people doing it.  Sort of like,
"Which interns want to specialize in proctology?  Raise your hands please!"

Depending on what you want to do in the "field" of SCM, you should have
in-depth knowledge of shell scripts; c-code programming; fundamentals of 
the UNIX 'make', 'rcs' tools and a plethora of other utilities.  You should
also have intimate knowledge of the design details of whatever product you're 
developing the SCM system for; good communication skills and a sense of humor.

I would suggest getting product literature from the companies selling SCM
tools.  Also get some literature from the "Software Engineering Institute".
There a few good books and magazine articles around too.
From: FC084801@ysub.ysu.edu (Bob Hogue, Computer Info. Systems)
Subject: Re: e: ACM Curriculum Proposal - Some Remarks
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:27:09 GMT

The remarks about the ACM curriculum proposal do indeed make me
wonder if it's on the right track or not; however, I have yet to
find an actual copy of the proposal itself and I'd like to look
it over before giving some ideas on it.  Can anyone point me to
the journal and issue in which the curriculum proposal was published?
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Hogue                         Internet:  FC804801@YSUB.YSU.EDU
Computer Information Systems      Bitnet:    FC084801@YSUB.BITNET
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, OH  44555
Phone 216/742-1775