HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Valeyard Explained
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:53:43 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <17912@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
> Bravo, Stephen, for coming up with one of the simplest possible theories
> about the Valeyard -- one which doesn't involve sending the Doctor back
> 75 years and having him mate with his Romulan half-daughter.  :-)
> 
> Maybe you can take on one more explanation...
> 
> WHY ON GALLIFREY was the Valeyard wearing a MASK to disguise himself as
> Mr. Popplewick?  The whole Matrix dreamscape was an illusion -- he could
> just make himself look like Popplewick.  Or create Popplewick out of whole
> cloth like Goth did for the various figures in "Deadly Assassin".

Yes, but if he uses a real mask and costume brought with him into the
Matrix (or already put in there before he goes in himself), then he 
doesn't have to expend any effort in thinking about it and maintaining that
part of the illusion, which, I think you'll agree, was a very important
part that he didn't want to risk anyone penetrating.
In the end, it wasn't the mask that gave him away, but rather the
"performance" that the Doctor sees through.

> 
> That unmasking scene and the escape from Robert Holmes' cliffhanger are the
> two biggest bits of cheese which I refuse to forgive Pip & Jane Baker for
> writing.

I think I said in my explanation that the quicksand cliffhanger was an
attempt by the Valeyard to make the Doctor believe in the illusion that
he was dead.  Perhaps for a little while he does believe it, but then
Glitz shows up and the Doctor realizes what's going on, and countersuggests
against the illusion.  (He can still get out of it because he hasn't
fully drowned yet)

Steven.K.Manfred
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
From: ace@kryton.UUCP (Catherine Beckstead)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 12:32:41 PST
Organization: Paradox Alley F&SF BBS 805-492-8789

rad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Cray Communications) writes:

> 
> Just watched this.
> 
> Was the time-travelling telephone box a dig at Dr Who or just a 
> coincidence ?
> 
> Richard

I don't consider in a "dig".  Maybe a "hat tipping" to the show and
those of us who would actually recognize the connection.  I thought
it was funny and in no way did I feel it was a rip-off.  The film was
a parady, and the phone booth was part of the parady.  My personal
opinion though.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Beckstead                    ace@kryton.uucp
"Do you want to argue with a can of deodorant that registers
NINE on the Richter scale?"        --Ace, in "Dragonfire"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Cray Communications)
Subject: Re: Christmas DW Goodies
Reply-To: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:36:00 +0000


Dr Who: The Sixties. Out in UK - maybe not reached US yet. This is a 
*very* *excellent* book covering the Hartnell / Troughton years.

Highly recommend it.

Richard
--

Richard Develyn from Hastings, Sussex, England ( rad@cix.compulink.co.uk ).
Software engineer (datacomms) for Cray Network Systems. Married to Caroline.
Baby daughter Sophie (b. 3/11/92). Hobbies: Dr Who, FRPG, SF, Curry,
quality computer games, philanthropic discussions.
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Doctor Who the philosopher?
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 06:28:38 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Trying something new.

OK!!

At some point or other, the Doctor has met philosophers, citing Pyrrho in
Season 1,  God from Time-Flight, and a few other which just don't come to mind
a 6:00 a.m.

What do you think?  Is the Doctor a loose philosopher?

Opinions? Comments?  Nukes?

Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Birthdate: 29 Jan 1969, Redhill, Surrey, England, UK
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: lidz@quads.uchicago.edu (adam lidz)
Subject: Re: Constants a Movie should observe
Reply-To: lidz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 11:14:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.213605.607@rivers> ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan10.211904.28081@midway.uchicago.edu>, lidz@quads.uchicago.edu (adam lidz) writes:
>> Has anyone given thought to the fact that the movie will PROBABLY be *SHORTER* than most Dr. Who stories?
>> 
>
>What makes you say that?  
>A Doctor Who story is typically nintey minutes long (four-parter, credits
>and cliffhanger reprisals don't count), and the standard good movie today
>is about two hours.  The movie would most likely be of the length of a 
>five or six part Who TV story.
>
>Steven.K.Manfred

At least here in the US, most movies are only 90 mins.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: kiron@vedge.com (Kiron D. Bondale)
Subject: Tassel thing on Doctor 4's jacket...
Organization: Visual Edge Software Ltd.
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 19:07:18 GMT

Hi all...in the spirit of enquiries concerning Doc 5's celery,
I thought a posting concerning Tom Baker's tassels on his lapel
was not out of order.  What exactly are those things, and in
what episode did they first appear?

Kiron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Kiron D. Bondale     + "The man in black fled across the desert,    +
+ Systems Manager      + and the gunslinger followed"... Stephen King +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Visual Edge Software Ltd +  3870 Cote Vertu, St. Laurent, Quebec,   +
+ kiron@vedge.com          +  CANADA, H4R 1V4  Tel: (514)-332-6430    +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Kiron D. Bondale     + "The man in black fled across the desert,    +
+ Systems Manager      + and the gunslinger followed"... Stephen King +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: pjam@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: New fan-made episode availible....
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:00:57 GMT

New Doctor Who episode:

	The As-Yet-Unnamed Doctor Who Fan Club Of Newfoundland (AYUDWFCON)
	
		under the guise of Eleventh Hour Productions

              has produced a fan-made Doctor Who episode called
			     " the Overseers "


	The 34 minute episode features an "eighth Doctor" and new companion
   in an original DW adventure. "The Overseers" was taped on VHS during the 
   summer and completed post-production in October. 
        "The Overseers" is not for sale, but is availible for distribution to 
   interested parties at the address below...

	"The Overseers"
        Eleventh Hour Productions
	51 Prince of Wales St.,
        St. John's, NF,
        CANADA   A1C 4N1

	Please note that we are (definately! Ha.) a non-profit group
   interested in the further celebration of Doctor Who! Our resources are
   rather limited, so donations would be very appreciated.  Thanks!
From: G.Roberts@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Graham Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: re: UK-GOLD Agenda
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:28:42 GMT


>UK-GOLD are currently reshowing most of the early Dr Who episodes
>does any body have a complete list of what is to be shown?

UK-Gold has shown the following stories, all from the Hartnell era:

An Unearthly Child
The Edge of Destruction
The Aztecs
Planet of Giants
The Rescue
The Romans
The Sensorites
The Space Museum
The Web Planet
The Time Meddler
The Ark
The Gunfighters

Today they are starting The War Machines

Only stories with all episodes intact have been shown and the ordering
has been modified to attempt to fit with the 5 episodes/Sunday omnibus
format. 

Both intact Dalek stories, the Chase and the Keys of Marinus have been
ommitted, allegedly because of problems with getting permission and
Terry Nation.

The big surprise for next week is that UK Gold will show The Genesis
of the Daleks (according to both the Radio & TV Times). This will mean
a jump to the Tom Baker era and the showing of a Dalek story.

Unfortunately, UK Gold insists on having adverts half way through each
episode, sticking the UK Gold logo in the lower right corner and
shrinking the end credits. However, it has been an opportunity to at
last see a number of early stories which haven't been transmitted
since the sixties. Even with adverts/logos etc. I would much rather
have Dr. Who five days a week than nothing!!

Graham
G.Roberts@uk.ac.ucl.cs
From: ensalada@cats.ucsc.edu (Kevin Charles Rubio)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Master
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:16:47 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Distribution: world
Reply-To: keeper@deeptht.armory.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <Doug_Lewis.1buw@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Doug_Lewis@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Doug Lewis) writes:
> RO> He appears in the last Doctor Who story, `Survival', albeit in a new
>When you say "the last Doctor Who story" do you mean the last one to be
>released or THE absolute last one for all time?

I dunno what you meant by `EC' when quoting me ... I changed it to my
real initials.

Anyway ... well, what does the word `last' mean to you?  The series has
been off the air for long enough (`Survival' was in 1989 -- remember that
year?) that I find the word `last' to be suitable in reference to the
story `Survival' or the 26th series.

If you don't like that word, you are free to change it to `final'.

The two possibilities in your sentence mean the same thing, anyway.
Something that is the last to be released is, by its own nature, the
last of all time.  There should be no confusion.  I suspect what you
meant by the first possibility is "the last so far" or "the latest,"
but I neither said nor meant that.

It's a question of viewpoint.  Those who think that a new series of
"Doctor Who" is just around the corner will say `latest'; those who
think it's dead and waiting to be buried will say `last'.

On the other hand, perhaps it's a question of the size of one's corners.
People with small corners will say `latest'; people with large corners
will say `last'.

I wonder if Star Trek fans ever had this kind of discourse ...

--
Email replies must be sent to keeper@deeptht.armory.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Cray Communications)
Subject: Re: Adventures in the 1800s
Reply-To: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:45:00 +0000


> I may be mistaken, but wasn't W.G. Grace known as 'the master'?
> (I think this is referred to in 'Black Orchid')

Ooh, maybe. That would put him out of the Great Exhibition period, so 
I can't imagine who The Lion would be otherwise.

--

Richard Develyn from Hastings, Sussex, England ( rad@cix.compulink.co.uk ).
Software engineer (datacomms) for Cray Network Systems. Married to Caroline.
Baby daughter Sophie (b. 3/11/92). Hobbies: Dr Who, FRPG, SF, Curry,
quality computer games, philanthropic discussions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: chrisc@debra.dgbt.doc.ca (Chris Camfield)
Subject: Cybermen/Dalek pics?
Organization: Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:46:55 GMT


Are there any digitized pictures of Daleks or (preferably) Cybermen around?
I've seen a couple of Tom Baker on wuarchive.wustl.edu, but I'd really
like to see a good shot from Earthshock maybe... :)  Anyone know where they
might be hiding?

Please reply by email, as I don't have time to read the newsgroup :(
-- 
Chris Camfield (chrisc@debra.dgbt.doc.ca)
 "So piece by piece we lay foundations
  Of the stuff we use for language
  It is awkward, it is dirty, but it's all we've got to work with" (JB)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: torresce@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Alex "Mystic" Soto)
Subject: Re: The Master
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:45:34 GMT

Nick.Allan@f395.n634.z3.fidonet.org (Nick Allan) writes:

>Hi all
> 
>Can someone tell me. Is The Master still alive or did he die in
> "Trial of a Timelord"
> 
>Regards Nick

Does this have to be really said?  ;)

The answer is yes, though you next meet him...needing the Doctor to come to
his aid - he's definately not the man he used to be (no he didn't 
regenerate).  :)

	Mystic
(alex.soto@analog.com)
From: evans@ece.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Katy Manning
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:21:57 GMT
Reply-To: evans@ece.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering


How old is she now?
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Doctor Who Formula...?
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:55:25 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <tpyryl@lynx.unm.edu> xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt) writes:
>jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:

>>(2) The isolated-outpost story.

>>Examples par excellance: "The Moonbase", "The Abominable Snowmen",
>>"The Ice Warriors", "The Web Of Fear" (well, OK, the Brig wasn't paranoid),
>>"Fury From The Deep", "The Wheel In Space", "Earthshock", "Warriors of the
>>Deep" (sorry, Johnny... *grin*), "The Horror of Fang Rock", and "The Power
>>Of Kroll".

>And "Revenge of the Cybermen"! You can't forget "Revenge of the Cybermen"!
>(I know, I've tried.)

Jeez, you're right... except that in that one, the isolated outpost is
completely conquered by the Cybermen before the story's half over.  I did
leave out "Time Lash" as an example of the first formula, too...

>Speaking of "Happiness Patrol," does anyone know if the amazing simi-
>larities with the PARANOIA game were deliberate or just a case of
>stealing from the same source?

Pure coincidence.  Just like the uncanny resemblance between Helen A and
Margaret T.  :-)

>Oh, and one more thing. How do I get ahold of this Gerrold story
>treatment?

It's appeared in a couple of places.  I think one of them was his book about
the making of "The Trouble With Tribbles" -- or perhaps it was his other
Star Trek behind-the-scenes book whose name escapes me.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: das0@quads.uchicago.edu (donald andrew smith)
Subject: Re: Leena
Reply-To: das0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:02:14 GMT


Ok, as I recall from the Face of Evil, the idea was that shortly after 
his regeneration, while his mind was still unstable, he took a quick
jaunt and happened to land on this planet where the new settlers were
having problems with their computer.  He did some kind of mind link to 
fix it, but since the computer was quasi-sentient, and since he forgot to
wipe his brain-print, not recognising the sentience, the computer went
MPS.  Now I went back and scoured _Robot_ for when this little jaunt
could have happened, and the best explanation I could see, is that when
Sarah came into the lab, and heard the noise of the TARDIS, he was 
actually taking off *and returning* at the exact same moment, so it looked
like he was never away.  I know that's a little weak, but look at it this
way.  It couldn't have happened after this point because his mind stabilised.
It couldn't have happened before this point, because he had just slipped
out of sick bay, and it was his first chance back in the TARDIS since the
regeneration.  Now, we don't know how much time elapsed between him sticking
harry in the cupboard and Sarah coming in the room, so I suppose he could have
taken off, gone to Leela's planet, come back to double-check coordinates
or something, and then been ready to take off again when Sarah started banging
on the door, but I'm not as happy with that for a couple of reasons.
1. It's more complicated, and I prefer to use Occam's razor when possible.
2. I have a hard time believing he would really hear her. Although I'm sure 
there are countless examples of similar occurances that I am simply not
remembering.

So anyway, that's the conclusion I came to.  Any other ideas?

Don Smith
From: ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Friday Night Review- "Warhead" !SPOILERS!
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:00:23 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <1993Jan9.055347.23869@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jhildebr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) writes:
> Oh boy, I get to be a grouch. :)
> 
> 	Uh Steven, how much cyberpunk have you read? At a guess you probably
> haven't read that much, right? Because Warhead seemed to be using all of
> the overused cyberpunk cliches and having seen them done in much better novels
> I was very turned off by Warhead and in fact could not finish it. I've
> forgotten the details of the book so I can't be more specific about what
> bothered me.
> 
> 	Ah well, part of my discontent may be that I never felt like
> cyberpunk went all that well with Doctor Who. Actually it could have been
> done rather well with Ace as a companion, but it would have to go beyond the
> usual cyberpunk cliches and go a little deeper into some of the motivations
> that were behind the beginning of the cyberpunk movement. (If anyone wants
> me to explain this, e-mail me, I don't want to write it up if no one's
> interested.)
> 
> -Jeff

You're right, I haven't read much cyberpunk, but is that a crime?

If the book was indeed full of cyberpunk cliches, then I can see why you
wouldn't like it, but Cartmel knew his audience well.  He knew the average
Who-fan probably hasn't read a terrible lot of cyberpunk, so he could use
the cliches and get away with it.  A cliche is something very good being
used too many times over and over again, but if the reader hasn't ever
seen it over and over again, then you're left with something very good.

It's like an expert in Shakespeare writing a story about the Doctor meeting
Shakespeare.  He can fill it with in-jokes that other students of Shakespeare
will recognize and may be very bored with, but that won't matter to the
audience at large.  This is a similar case.  

You didn't like it because you're too well read.  :)

Steven.K.Manfred
From: aa634@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill White)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Colin Baker: recommendations wanted
Date: 10 Jan 1993 19:41:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa634@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill White)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, lizb@banyan.com () says:

>Would someone (prefereably someone who *likes* Colin's Doctor) be willing
>to share opinions on which episodes are perhaps worthy of their own tapes?
>

In spite of the fact that it was written by Pip & Jane Baker, I 
really like "The Mark Of The Rani".  It's probably my favorite
Colin Baker story.

It's too bad that their second story with the Rani, wasn't as
good (T&tR), I liked the idea of a Time Lady that can be totally
cold and ruthless.

-- 
Bill White, aa634@Cleveland.freenet.edu OR aa037@Medina.Freenet.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
       Assistant Sysop, Cleveland & Medina County Free-net's
                  Science Fiction and Fantasy Sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: lidz@quads.uchicago.edu (adam lidz)
Subject: Re: Constants a Movie should observe
Reply-To: lidz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:19:04 GMT

Has anyone given thought to the fact that the movie will PROBABLY be *SHORTER* than most Dr. Who stories?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: jchilton@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Jeffrey E. Chilton)
Subject: Transit ISBN, please
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:32:02 GMT


Does anybody have the ISBN for Transit?  Please E-mail me
at:
  chilton@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu

Thanks,
Jeffrey E. Chilton
From: glazier@isr.harvard.edu (Andrew Baker Glazier)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,ba.forsale,rec.sf.marketplace
Subject: Dr Who Books For Sale  List (revised; 1-11-1993)
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:22:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: burrhus.1993Jan11.172237.14538
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

any reasonable offer accepted.
I also have many of the Who hardcover books, The Key To Time, The Early
Years, will sell at coverprice. Inquire for specific titles

     Label     Title                         Condition
                                        Mint = M
    Target                              Near Mint= NM
                                        OK = Cosmetic Damage
               Dalek Invasion Of Earth       M
               Dominators                    NM   
               Marco Polo                    NM
               Myth Makers                   NM
               Planet Of Fire                OK
               Terror Of The Autons          NM
               The Twin Dilemma              OK
               The Aztecs                    M
               The Zarbi                     M
               The Daleks                    OK
               The Mark Of The Rani          NM
               Unearthly Child               NM
Pinnacle       Android Invasion              OK 1nd & 2ndprinting
               Dinosaur Invasion             OK
               Doomsday Terror               OK
               Genesis Of The Daleks         OK
               Loch Ness Monster             NM
               Masque of Mandragora          OK
               Day Of The Daleks             M
               Revenge Of The Cybermen       OK
               Seeds Of Doom                 NM
               Talons Of Weng Chiang         NM
Ballantine
Find Your Fate Race Against Time             M
FASA           
               Dr W: Rebel's Gamble  (6th dr)     OK      
                3rd Quiz Book
-- 
"A horse! A horse! Somebody give me a horse, man, because|glazier@ 
I come to bury this dirtball, not to praise him. Whaddya |harvard.isr.edu
think I am? Whether it's nobler for the mind to make people suffer with all
these totally outrageous arrows arrows for a fortune, or what!" -- D.R.
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Stark Naked
Summary: Another one near me
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:50:43 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1992Dec24.163528.12806@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.233225.529@u.washington.edu> hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless) writes:

>>In the mid-70s, a UW law student told me that he had become acquainted
>>with a trio of fellow students named (he swore it was true):  Swindler,
>>Lawless, and Moneymaker.  Ah, if only they had set up a practice together!

>       I once had an optometrist: Dr B.D. Eagle

I used to drive past one called Dr C. Wright. Unfortunately after at
least 10 years he changed his sign to Dr Charles Wright and then left
his office. I have no idea where he is now or if he still practises.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:15:52 GMT

		Roger Lustig writes:

		btw, didn't Alan Bloom cite Rousseau an awful lot?

Well, Allan Bloom *read* Rousseau an awful lot, translated some of
him, wrote essays on him, and yes, strangely enough, did some serious
reflecting on Rousseau's *ideas*. 

Keith




--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore