HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: YOU OWE ME FREE HEALTHCARE!
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:00:46 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

Clinton was elected on the claim, (among others,) that 

	"Health Care is a RIGHT".

A right.  Hmmmm.  "Right" is a very strong word.

Free speech is a right.  I have the right to say what I choose.  That's
true.  This right is inalienable in the true sense of the word.  Noone
can possibly take that right away, except by killing me.  Our
consitution acknowledges that, and promises that the government won't
gag me with a rifle, (the only true way to shut someone up.)

Health care may be a right in the sense that I have the right to care
for my own health.  You can't stop me from taking care of myself.

But this is not what Clinton is saying.

He is saying I have to right to make YOU take care of my health.

In other words...

I have the right to force you to do something.  In this case to pay for
my health care.  Or perhaps I have the right to force doctors to
provide it at no charge somehow, I don't know.  (Imagine doctors
in work camps breaking rocks with big hammers and wearing chains on 
their ankles and healing people, condemned because of their abilities
and for no other reason.)

What does this really mean?  When you strip away all the meaningless
rhetoric, what is Bill Clinton really saying?

He is saying that he will force you to pay, (to work long hard hours,
to spend your precious lifetime) to keep me alive, possibly against
your will.  And if you refuse?  If you say, "I refuse to pay"?  He will
come and take your money.  And if you say, "I won't give you the
money."  Well this is tax evasion.  Clearly.  He will try to put you in
jail.  And if you refuse to go to jail?  He will come with a gun and
break into your house and grab you and drag you to jail by force.  And
if you try to defend yourself from this attack with a gun, or any other
means of defense.  What will happen when you try to defend yourself
from this violent attack initiated by Clinton?  What will happen then?
You will be killed.

So.  Pay for my new heart transplant or die.  Those are your choices.
My right to free health care outweighs your right to spend your
lifetime as you see fit.

Isn't it nice to live in such a free country.

What other rights might I be entitled to at your expense and just not
know it yet?  Hmmmmmm.  Let me see.........

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:29:55 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <BxIDGC.Cuo@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov5.144142.26197@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> In <Bx8BoE.Bx@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>> >Well, there's "costs" and there are "costs".  It's amazing that Japanese
>> >companies are able to produce lower-cost products, even if the factories
>> >are in the US and use US workers.  More than often "below cost" means
>> >"below the costs of what the US companies estimates the costs are".
>> 
>> I'm curious.  Do you have examples of this other than the automobile
>> industry (which I am convinced is run by congenital idiots in this
>> country)? 
> 
>The entire system is designed to maximize the revenues of (incompetent)
>US companies at the expense of foreign companies and more importanly US
>consumers.  I just started reading "Fair Trade Fraud" (by Bovard.  I
>recommend it highly) and the situation is really shocking.  I think 
>even well informed people will be surprised to the extent that US
>government interferes in trade.  Did you know there are almost 9,000
>tariffs for all sorts of products?  This doesn't included hundreds of
>"voluntary" and involuntary quota programs and "anti-dumping" penalties.

Why would this come as a surprise?  Even with all that, we have fewer
barriers to entry into our markets than most developed countries.

> 
>One estimate puts the price of tariffs and quotas at around $1,500/
>family/year.  The standard response is "It costs consumers more, but
>it protects US business and jobs"?  It's clear that what it does is
>protect some companies at the expense of others.  For example, the
>extremely high price of sugar protects sugar workers, but it makes every
>US food company less competitive.

This one was more politically motivated than anything else, wasn't it?
I mean, given that the bulk of the sugar on the world market was
coming from Cuba, etc., and we wanted to try and do something with
Hawaii?  I can try to look it up in my baby library here, if someone
doesn't know.

However, once again, let's keep some perspective here.  Even given all
that, we still have fewer supports and barriers to entry than almost
any developed nation.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:17:22 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David L. Cathey (davidc@montagar.com) wrote:
: > : of having to either support them, arrest them, or bury them (or
: > : perhaps some combination of those).
: > 
: > Actually you don't have to do any of these three.
: > 
: 
: 	Well, I think my accountant might disagree with you on that point when
: we send that check to the IRS...

We only "have" to in the sense that it's how the system is currently set up.
It doesn't mean that it makes sense or that it can't be changed.

: 	I agree with Fred on this point, and you seem to be missing it
: completely with this statement.  We are not complaining about constructive
: uses of our taxes (schools, education), but we don't like having to spend
: on negative uses (jails, prisons, etc).

Everybody has his own idea about what's constructive, and they often don't
agree.  What I object to is the stereotype that if they do poorly in high
school academics, they will necessarily become criminals.  There are a lot of
uneducated people who aren't criminals.  This is a gross oversimplification.

: 	Sure it is, but you obviously assume that "free market" has emphasis
: on "free".  Free Market is that goods are available, and you are free to
: take advantage of them if you are willing to pay market cost.  We are just
: defining market cost.  You have the right to pursue happiness, but that doesn't
: mean that the school system has to guarantee it for you.

I could say the same for English, Math, History, and Science.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:15:35 GMT

In article <21826@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> You are ignoring one very crucial fact - many of these Japanese companies
> are selling below cost ACCORDING TO THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT!  There are
> quite a few news stories about Japanese companies subsidizing their exports
> on the backs of Japanese consumers.
 
If the Japanese people want to knock $50 off the price of a new tv,
that's fine with me.
 
I think the Japanese people are just starting to demand that their
standard of living keep pace with their past economic gains.  I wonder how
much longer that system will remain.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Abstinence from Sex Education?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:08:25 GMT

In article <1631@airgun.wg.waii.com>, miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
> How can you encourage abstinence and mass-distribute free condoms at the 
> same time? How can you encourage people to stop drug use and mass-distribute
> free needles? You can't, without talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
Not so.  It's a recognition that different people are willing to accept
different levels of risk.  Abstinence is the best way to avoid AIDS.  But
it also happens to go against the grain of our society, for better or for 
worse.  The government isn't going to convince people to practice
abstinence any more than it's managed to convince people not to take
drugs.  So we recognize that and also point out that if you are going to
engage in risky behavior, it makes sense to minimize that behavior.  On a
pragmatic level, it will minimize public health costs in the long run (and
New Haven, CT has shown that needle-exchange programs can be effective).
 
> You are right. But the underlying meaning here is that since abstinence
> is by far the most effective means of avoiding AIDS it is the only 
> acceptable message, since anything less effective would risk lives.
 
That's an interesting position.  Maybe the government should encourage 
people to only purchase large cars with roll bars and air bags, because
anything else would risk lives. 
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:35:12 GMT

Okay, I'll bite!

In article <21824@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>	"Let Us Pray!", by Eugene H. Methvin, Reader's Digest,
>		November 1992

>	Do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling
>	that it is unconstitional for a prayer to be offered at a high-
>	school graduation?
>		80% Disapprove
>		18% Approve

APPROVE

>	Do you generally favor or oppose prayer in public schools?
>		75% Favor
>		19% Oppose

OPPOSE

>	It's right for a school to put up a manger scene or menorah
>	during the holiday season?
>		76% Agree
>		21% Disagree

AGREE

>	Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for a candidate
>	for President or Congress who favored prayer in public schools?
>		59% More likely
>		16% Less likely

LESS LIKELY

-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#      This netnews message has been brought to you by the number 3!   #
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Term Limits
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:40:30 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov5.223838.1980@wixer.cactus.org> reaper@wixer.cactus.org (Keath Milligan) writes:

>In article <Bx8D8n.xr@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>>Ok.  Now that the elections are over, perhaps one (or more) of the 
>>proponents of term limitations could explain this to me.  The term limits
>>were very popular and won in a number of areas.
>> 
>>Yet, incumbents still won in incredible numbers.  If you take out the
>>strange cases (re-districting and incumbents in bad shape like the one who
>>spend the campaign in a hospital with heart problems) an incredible
>>percentage of incubments, perhaps 85% or 90%, won.
>> 
>>This seems to be a case of "do what I say, not what I do".  I can think
>>of a couple of explanations, but none of them quite do the job.  
>>-- 
>>Doug Andersen
>>hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com

>"Throw the bums out!!.... but not MY bum!"

>Term limit legislation is a gimmick designed to remove a few, specific
>congressmen that have (perhaps rightfully so) made a lot of enemies.
>The people in their districts have an oportunity to "limit their terms" on
>a regular basis and they choose not to.  Term limits simply aren't
>needed.  The people in a given state have the right to elect who they
>see fit to be their representative, other states should not have the
>right to impose restrictions on this process.

The problem is that incumbants have an INCREDIBLE advantage in most
cases; in name recognition if nothing else.  People obviously thought
that term limits on the Presidency were a good thing.  Why not impose
them elsewhere, as well?  When this country was started, Congress
wasn't pictured as being a nest for professional politicians.  Give
them a maximum of two and a half terms in EACH job -- Assuming they
get all the way to the Presidency, this gives them 32 years in
government service (4+12+8+8).  That's more than long enough.  If we
forced turnover, perhaps Congress would be a bit more in touch with
reality. 

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Gays and Children
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:52:29 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


What ever happenned to the 3 R's?


*2   GAY ED:  SEVERAL N.Y.C. SCHOOL BOARDS APPROVE CURRICULUM
     A majority of New York City's school boards has agreed to
use a first-grade curriculum guide that fosters respect for gay
families (Willen, N.Y. NEWSDAY; See DRC 4/24).  Twenty-seven of
32 school boards have consented to use or revise "Children of the
Rainbow."  Four others have asked for more time to discuss the
curriculum and present alternatives, according to the newspaper.
     Other school boards opted to teach the lessons, but in later
grades.  "It came down to the issue of age-appropriateness," said
Beverly Hall, supt. of District 27 in Queens.  The district will
not teach from the family section until fifth grade.
     The section provoked complaints from some parents and
religious leaders who claimed it promoted gay lifestyles and said
first-graders are too young for books mentioned in the optional
bibliography, including "Heather Has Two Mommies," and "Daddy Has
a Roommate."
     Board of Ed officials contend the guide's intentions often
have been misunderstood, according to NEWSDAY.  "The bibliography
has always been optional and school boards are free to teach the
section on families later in elementary school if they feel
first-grade is too soon," said spokesman Frank Sobrino (11/3).

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now. -
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Needles (was: Re: What, Me Vote?)
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:47:45 GMT

In article <1620@airgun.wg.waii.com> miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>
>It's a matter of a difference of opinions as to priorities. Some say that we've
>got to tell everyone to use condoms (and in the process we are giving
>CHILDREN condoms) and use sterile needles (and to that end we are handing out
>sterile needles - something for which you are supposed to have a
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>doctor's prescription), and oh, by the way, abstinence is also a way to avoid
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>contracting the disease. Others say that we need to impress upon everyone that
>the best way to avoid the virus is not to engage in sex (or sex outside of 
>the marriage or some other monogamous relationship) and not to engage in IV
>drug use, but if you insist on doing these things then use condoms, sterile
>needles, etc. and keep in mind that these are not as effective as abstinence.

Interesting.  I can walk into any (so far as I know) feed store in the
state and buy hypodermic needles and syringes without any prescription.

Did you learn this when you were in California (or some other bastion
of drug-freeness)?



thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
I believe all human interactions should be based on mutual consent.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:31:33 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov05.170913.28519@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:

>fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
>: Hey, talk to the pro teams, then.  Don't try and trash the schools (or
>: keep them trashed) in order to provide farm clubs for the pros.

>And exactly how does this "trash" the schools?

Watered down standards (so they can graduate), disruptive behaviour
(because they aren't interested in being there, except to play
football), slowed down classes so that everyone learns less (so they
can keep up, maybe).  The list goes on and on, John.  It USED to be
that a high school diploma meant SOMETHING -- an employer could assume
that someone who got through high school had a certain set of basic
skills.  You can't do that anymore.

I'm curious; what do YOU think is the problem with the schools, if
it's not lowering standards, the slowdown of the rate at which
information is taught to students who could take it faster, and the
presence of disruptive students who don't want to be in class in the
first place?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 23:57:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.143412.26187@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>In <1992Nov09.183815.1838@cpqhou.compaq.com> thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov6.223933.12755@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>>
>>>After that Convention and the McCartheyite campaign George Bush ran, I
>>>wouldn't vote for him in a 1-man race.
>
>
>>That's not saying much; ovr 60% of the voters didn't vote for him
>>in the last n-man race.  But tell me, fred, if it came down to a
>>choice between George Bush and a Libertarian, in a two-man race,
>>who would you vote for?
>
>I would stock up on ammunition and vote for the Libertarian.  George
>Bush has demonstrated to me that both himself and the current state of
>his Party are totally bankrupt, ethically and morally speaking.
>
>Hey, Thomas, isn't this the old Libertarian 'vote for the least evil
>lizard' paradigm?  ;-)
>

Not for me, it'd be more like a dream come true.  
I agree about the state of the Republican Party.  I guess we'll see
about the Democrats over the next two years or so.


thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
I believe all human interactions should be based on mutual consent.
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:09:13 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: Hey, talk to the pro teams, then.  Don't try and trash the schools (or
: keep them trashed) in order to provide farm clubs for the pros.

And exactly how does this "trash" the schools?

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a 
 building?" -- TMBG
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:52:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.165907.39494@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>Joe Mullally (rocky@NeoSoft.com) wrote:
>: 	I think you give in too easily on this one, Griff. By definition,
>: it is arguable that atheism (denial of the existence of God) is not
>: a religion, no doubt. But, is it religious?
>
>Since your definition of atheism is incorrect, it would tend to render the
>rest of your analysis moot.  Yeah, I know that's what your dictionary says,
>but dictionaries aren't written by atheists.  For one thing "denial" connotes
>that the thing you're denying is true and you just won't admit it.  For another
>thing almost all people who call themselves atheists disbelieve in the 
>existence of gods, because of the lack of evidence for such.  This is much 
>different from saying that gods do not exist, which would be a statement of
>faith.  If you are really interested in this, you might look for the FAQ from
>alt.atheism.

	Hmmm... I'd certainly agree that atheists should be able to
define themselves. I do have a qualm with your claim that that an atheist
doesn't deny the existence of the Christian God, though. It would seem
he/she has but three choices: to believe, to deny, or to not know. It sounds
like you're saying atheists are agnostics waiting for more data....or are
you saying that "disbelieving" is significantly different in this case from
"denying"? I don't see the significance. Denying the existence of other
Gods, you might be inferring, is done publicly. I think not. I think an
atheist certainly denies the existence of God(s). Finally, you skew
"deny" when you address "denial". But, no harm. Denial, as well, does
not imply that the object denied is true. You're thinking of psychological
denial, I think. Do you deny this? (-:
	And, I do think atheists have faith that their religious
convictions are correct, or they'd be agnostics. Break down the word
atheist. Perhaps I should recant allowing atheists self-definition.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"We need stronger death penalties..." George Bush, debate #2