HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: Sun to use DisplayPostScript!!!
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:41:45 GMT

John G Shirlaw writes

> Does this mean that we will be able to use a sun as a terminal for
> NeXTStep... as they both will use DPS as a windowing model or am
> I just being simple minded?

What Sun is moving to is what the other vendors besides NeXT have.
An X11R5 with Display PostScript as an extension.  This means that
it takes X calls to set up the windows, and you can then image into
the window using Display PostScript.  What NeXT has done is create
a windowing system on top of Display PostScript.

So, no, Sun workstations won't be able to be servers to NeXT
machines.  They can be servers to applications running on other
workstations that use Display postScript as an extension to X.
(You could run Illustrator on a DecStation, displaying on a Sun,
for example).

What is does mean is the display portion of an application - the
wraps, most Display PostScript calls (the ones not relating to
window functionality) - will not have to be modified during a port.

This is significant.  By programming an application using a user
interface build for the windowing and GUI portions of the program,
and using Display PostScript for the interior window displays, you
only need rip out the GUI portion of the program and replace it
with a new one for a new machine to port it.  The core part of the
program, if done portable, and the interior display portion of the
program will port fairly trivially.

And with Sun's moving to Display PostScript, a significant majority
of workstations will have Display PostScript as their imaging model
- choosing Display PostScript instead of X to image with no longer
significantly hinders an application's available market.

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: What I don't understand...(WAS: THE ONLY CHOICE)
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:58:41 GMT

In article <26JAN199320564151@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu>  
mwelch@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (WELCH,MICHAEL) writes:
>   Why doesn't Steve poke his head in over at Silicon Graphics? They
> haven't spurned him in any way have they? I'd personally like to
> see a NeXT/Pixar/Adobe/Silicon Graphics team. 
> 
I would like to see that too, but it sure doesn't look like
it will happen. Last time I talked to SGI (which was a few
weeks ago) they expressed no interest at all in NeXSTEP.
The opinion expressed was that the performance hit to
their hardware (their terms) of running the AppKit and
DPS wasn't worth it. They also seem pretty happy with what
they have. 

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: jefferis@manas.engr.widener.edu (Raymond P Jefferis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: A CPU on Every Desk?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 14:20:54 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
NNTP-Posting-Host: engr.widener.edu

In article <1993Jan25.192117.2503@trilithon.mpk.ca.us>  
henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:
> Unfortunately, I see the disquieting trend back to time sharing,
> except it's now called ``client server computing'', as if giving
> it a new name changes the result.  In these new bad old days, the
> resource being competed for (competition, you understand, NOT
> sharing) isn't so much CPU cycles as network bandwidth.  The end
> results are the same, though ...
Enjoyed your comments; even printed a copy for future reference, Thanks!
Raymond
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: garylang@netcom.com (Gary Lang)
Subject: Re: NS486 delay not technical?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
	<1993Jan18.024315.14064@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> <PFKEB.93Jan26081024@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:02:06 GMT

What's really mind-blowing is that they were apparently shipping the
386 version of NeXTSTEP for $500.00 I think you were at that meeting
Paul (BaNG that is) at which I asked the IBM person why they yanked the
product and she said "it wasn't fast enough for our standards" to which
I said "Well, that didn't stop you from shipping OS/2" to
which she said "OS/2 is for personal computers and NeXTSTEP is for
workstations - two totally different markets."

I wonder what she thinks of NT, now that her company has blown its
chances to really jump ahead of Billg by 3 years. As the layoffs roll
by, I wonder if anybody at IBM realizes the chance they had and how
badly they blew it.

When it comes to how to screw up a company, remember...

How're you gonna do it?

OS/2 it!

-g
From: randy@appsoft.com(Randy Adams)
Subject: Re: Draw = MacWrite? NOT
Reply-To: randy@appsoft.com
Organization: APPSOFT
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:28:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.124437.27214@wam.umd.edu> gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea  
Brooks) writes:
> If Draw is modeled after MacWrite, where's the marquee selection tool
> or the lasso? They'd be very useful...

Argh !  

I SAID MACDRAW.  Anyway, neither MacDraw or MacWrite have a marquee selection  
tool the arrow selection tool is the closest thing.  MacWrite has neither.  And  
neither Draw or MacDraw have a lasso, MacPaint and Appsoft Image do.

Randy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff Henshaw)
Subject: Re: Apple Software Director Quits, Goes to Microsoft
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:48:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation


In article <1ji1a1INNljd@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes...


| In article <1993Jan15.184433.21689@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> 
| jstc_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (j. collins) writes:
|
| >Not that it does Microsoft any good since it is against the law 
| >for this person, whose name aludes me at the moment, to discuss 
| >anything he knows about apple's future plans.
| >
| >-justin m. collins <jstc_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu>
|
| It is against the law to speed on the interstate, but people do.  
| How will people know that he broke his nondisclosure agreement?  
| For now, until we know otherwise, assume that he has.

Ah...in the American tradition, "innocent until proven
guilty."  Oops, guess this is "guilty until proven innocent."

-Jeff
jhenshaw@microsoft.com
not a microsoft spokesperson
From: degner@next.com (Dave Egner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anatomy of a Fenestrophobe
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:56:04 GMT

> James McIninch (gt1619a@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote:
> : Well, not really. Nice machine, but a wee bit slow, under represented, and
> : illegal to operate in a residential area because it doesn't comply with FCC
> : regulations regarding Class B computing devices.

James:

The truth in the matter is that NeXTstation systems are now FCC Class B  
Certified.  This has been the case ever since the ADB versions started  
shipping.

You can indeed use one at home.

Please do!

Cheers,

DE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: mark@cyantic.com (Mark T. Dornfeld)
Subject: Re: A CPU on Every Desk?
Organization: CYANTIC Systems
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:54:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.192117.2503@trilithon.mpk.ca.us> henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:
>
>As Steve Abell said, ``Oh, how short people's memories are!''.
>
>Unfortunately, I see the disquieting trend back to time sharing,
>except it's now called ``client server computing'', as if giving

This trend isn't new.  Novell exists only because it is able to centralize
certain aspects of PC's.  Most businesses do not have the expertise to run
a robust peer-to-peer network like TCP/IP and never will. I don't think
timesharing is going to make a big comeback as such, but many services in a
modern network have to be centralized for the network to be effective.
-- 

Mark T. Dornfeld                              Voice: (416) 234-9048
CYANTIC Systems                               Facsimile: (416) 234-0477
101 Subway Crescent Suite 2103                Email: mark@cyantic.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:07:27 GMT

We are having a serious problem with version 1.03.  Has anyone else
experienced corruption of existing files (created by version 1.02,
for example) after version 1.03 has "saved" them.  It doesn't seen to
matter whether they are saved to a new name or the old name.

Try copying a previously created draw file to some other name (for
safety), loading it with version 1.03, saving it again, closing the
window, and them loading it again.  

Version 1.03 sure loads faster, but at what cost...?

--
Nathan Janette	# "As I walk I hear my longing thoughts subsiding.
Dept MB&B	# Upon your cross I bleed the thoughts that I've been hiding.
Yale Univ/HHMI	# I'm all used up; there's not much more for me to give.
New Haven, CT	# Echoes of the life that we all want to live."

nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXT on ComputerWorld
From: sulistio@sutro.SFSU.EDU (Sulistio Muljadi)
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:24:26 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: San Francisco State University

NeXT article on ComputerWorld this week.... on the back page
It mentioned about NeXT having to be a software company
It also said that NeXT will introduce a RISC machine in May
-- 
Mul			    | Alt. address:  sulistio@futon.sfsu.edu
sulistio@sutro.sfsu.edu	    | NeXTmail ->    sarong!sulistio@cs.sfsu.edu 
#include "std/disclaimer.h" |                sulistio@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
>Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration.
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (Conrad Geiger - Manager, International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Press Release: NeXT Profitable in Q4 '92; N. American Sales Up 36%
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:16:55 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com (Conrad Geiger)

NEWS

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:	Allison Thomas
		Allison Thomas Associates
		(818) 981-1520

NeXT Profitable in Q4 '92
North American Sales Up 36% in 1992

REDWOOD CITY, Calif., January 21, 1993 - NeXT Computer, Inc. today
announced its first quarterly operating profit, for the fourth
quarter of 1992, on revenues of $45 million.  NeXT also announced
worldwide revenues of $140 million for the year ended December 31,
1992, an increase of 10 percent over the prior year's $127 million.
Highlighted were North American revenues, which increased 36 percent
year to year, from $72 million to $98 million.

"NeXT had a solid 1992, with a growth rate more than double that of
the total workstation market, which grew 4.2 percent, according to
Dataquest," said Peter van Cuylenburg, NeXT's president and chief
operating officer.  "We achieved profitability in Q4 on the basis of
increased revenues, higher gross margins and reduced expenses."


Steven P. Jobs, NeXT's chairman and CEO, commented:  "We added to our
base of large customers in 1992, which now includes Chrysler
Financial, McCaw Cellular, WilTel, Bozell (BJK&E), Mount Clemens
Hospital, First National Bank of Chicago and Swiss Bank Corporation.
One of these customers is already using NeXTSTEP on more than 1,000
desktops, and several others are planning multi-thousand desktop
deployments during the next 12 to 24 months."

One of NeXT's most recent new customer wins is AIG Trading
Corporation, a currency and commodities trading company that is
designing its new trading floor completely around the object-oriented
NeXTSTEPd environment.

"Fast, reliable and cutting-edge communications and information
technology are critical to our success," said Tom Borgeson, director
of technology for AIG Trading Corporation.  "We are sold on the
object-oriented approach to developing and using software, and
NeXTSTEP is the leader in integrating that approach onto a UNIX
platform.  We're very excited about using our NeXT systems to develop
applications in-house and to integrate voice and text communications,
especially using NeXTmail."

About NeXT
NeXT Computer, Inc. designs and markets the industry-acclaimed
NeXTSTEP object-oriented system software environment.  NeXTSTEP is
used by medium and large organizations to develop and deploy
mission-critical applications, using both custom and shrink-wrapped
software.  NeXT is headquartered at 900 Chesapeake Drive, Redwood
City, Calif., 94063.  


-30-


NeXT, the NeXT logo, NeXTSTEP and NeXTmail are trademarks of NeXT
Computer, Inc.  All other trademarks mentioned belong to their
respective owners.
From: markt@tse.uucp (Mark Turner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: A CPU on Every Desk?
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:00:50 GMT
Reply-To: markt@tse.UUCP (Mark Turner)
Organization: Toronto Stock Exchange


First a comment and then a question ....

I've come to the conclusion that a "CPU on every desk" is not the right
solution for many businesses. As soon as a $20,000 workstation lands on a 
corporate desk, it needs more memory and more hard disk ... and the CPU 
itself it out-of-date and too slow in just a few months. In fact, this 
phenomenon has only manifested itself in the last decade or so. Before that, it
was simply too expensive (and there wasn't enough room) to equip every employee 
with an IBM mainframe :-). In any case, the point is that these employees did 
have access to cheap terminals. The big iron could easily be upgraded, but only
so far. At some point, the CPU had to be chucked and replaced at great
expense. Now that client-server computing has arrived in the '90s, it's 
easier to grow a central pool of CPUs, and equip desks with X terminals. The
X terminals can be replaced, or upgraded, without much fuss and little expense.
And it's simply more efficient to do system administration, and manage most
of the hardware problems, centrally.

Now for the question ....

I often hear NeXT advocates complaining about the X protocol, and promoting
Display PostScript ... possibly with good reason. Is it possible to hang X
terminals off a NeXT server and use the native NeXT desktop from the terminals?
Is there any such thing as a PostScript Terminal? If not, why not? Is anyone
out there adopting this sort of strategy?

Comments .... ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards,                        Phone: (416) 947-4269
Mark Turner                     UUCP:  markt@tse.com
                                Post:  2 First Canadian Place
Market and Systems Development         Toronto, Ontario
The Toronto Stock Exchange             M5X-1J2

Disclaimer: These comments and opinions expressed here are mine alone (not 
            that anyone else would want 'em).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: Sun to use DisplayPostScript!!!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:27:42 GMT

rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
> zmonster@athena.mit.edu (Eric M Hermanson) writes:
> >daugher@cs.tamu.edu writes:
> 	[article text mostly deleted]
> 
> >>Q. Is DPS a standard?
> >>
> >>A. Though DPS is not a sanctioned standard, it is fast becoming
> >>   a de facto UNIX standard. All major Unix platform vendors
> >>   (SGI, IBM, DEC, NCD, etc.), except Hewlett-Packard, support DPS.
> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >What about NeXT??  Sun intentionally did not mention NeXT, even
> >though they were the leaders of the DPS bandwagon.  Boy are they
> >ever feeling the heat!
> 
> 	No conspiracy, probably.  NeXT is not a major UNIX platform 
> 	vendor in the same league (i.e., machines shipped) as the others
> 	named.  Data General, NeXT and so on are all covered by "etc."

I think Sun likes to define "major Unix platform" in whatever way is most  
convenient for Sun's press releases.  While Sun was BSD for many many years,  
they *now* decide that a company is not a "real Unix vendor" unless that  
company is shipping a SysV-based system.

It's amusing to be at Sun presentations and see just how studiously they  
seem to avoid the word "next".  I was at one where not only did they  
"happen" to almost never mention the *company* NeXT, they actually did not  
use the *word* next anywhere (except for one slide which listed NeXT as one  
of the companies which understands NFS).

In the same presentation they were more than happy to name all kinds of  
other vendors, including those which are much "less major" than NeXT is.   
They also spent a lot of time saying disparaging remarks about HP and DEC  
RISC processors, much more than I thought was appropriate at the time.  I  
find it easy to believe that Sun may be feeling a little uncomfortable these  
days.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
From: pjm@SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU (Pedro J. Moreno)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXT article in Fortune Magazine
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:15:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1D954.89w.2
Reply-To: pjm@stevens.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU (Pedro J. Moreno)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon



In the February issue of Fortune Magazine there is an article about NeXT  
and Steve Jobs.......just in case you guys are interested.

--
Pedro J. Moreno			(NeXTMail yes!!)

Electrical and Computer Engineering
From: williams@cac.stratus.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: HP-NeXT connection
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:51:32 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ziggy.cac.stratus.com

In article <C1FpE6.3A1@news2.cis.umn.edu> wisdom@geom.umn.edu (Scott Wisdom)  
writes:
> In article <Jan25.204915.55864@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>  
sh.atmos.colostate.edu (Dave Randall) writes:
> >OK, rumor time, from a source who should know -- but no guarantees.
> >
> >HP will get out of the workstation operating system business. HP-Vue, or  
> >whatever they call it, is going away. In its place, HP will offer both  
NeXTSTEP  
> >and Windows NT, and possibly also Solaris. My source made Solaris sound  
iffy,  
> >the other two not iffy. Announcement within a few weeks. Products some time  
> >down the road -- maybe 6 months from now.

> Though I would love to see NeXTStep running on some serious hardware and I
> hope HP does license NeXTStep, I can't see how they would just 'get out' of
> the OS business. Many many people have invested huge amounts of money in
> HP-UX based projects, and they wouldn't be too happy with HP doing anything
> like giving up on their OS. However, if HP really wanted to get out of the OS
> business, I could see them selling/turning over control of HP-UX to some
> third party or something along those lines.
> 
> -Scott Wisdom
> wisdom@geom.umn.edu

I don't see HP getting out of the OS business either, obviously there's
just as much money (or more) to be made on the OS and associated software
as there is in hardware, as NeXT is learning the hard way. HP already has a
huge installed base of HP-UX users and a huge base of MPE users, and there's
no way HP will just give up that business.   

HP has stated that their goal is to migrate HP-UX (UNIX SVR3.2 compliant) 
to OSF/1, which like NeXTStep, uses the Mach kernel.   DEC has also committed 
to migrating Ultrix to OSF/1, but DEC has also licensed Window NT to run on 
the Alpha platform.   HP has not licensed NT, but instead seems to be 
negotiating with NeXT for NeXTStep licencing, as was mentioned in the 
BusinessWeek article.

It seems that the three of the OSF founders, HP, IBM, and DEC, who are
migrating their current UNIX implementations to OSF/1, all will have a 
secondary strategic OS (just in case OSF/1 isn't what customers want).

HP - NeXTStep
IBM - "Pink"
DEC - Windows NT

Only time will tell which strategy will be a winner (if any... what
about Solaris???).  :-)

					Eric
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Williams			EMAIL: williams@cac.stratus.com
Stratus Computer Inc.		FAX  : (508) 480-9368
Marlboro, Ma. 01752-1298	PHONE: (508) 460-2915

NeXT Mail Welcome...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: A CPU on Every Desk?
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:45:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.125433.12215@cyantic.com> mark@cyantic.com (Mark T. Dornfeld) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.192117.2503@trilithon.mpk.ca.us> henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:
>>
>>As Steve Abell said, ``Oh, how short people's memories are!''.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I see the disquieting trend back to time sharing,
>>except it's now called ``client server computing'', as if giving
>
>This trend isn't new.  Novell exists only because it is able to centralize
>certain aspects of PC's.  Most businesses do not have the expertise to run
>a robust peer-to-peer network like TCP/IP and never will. I don't think
>timesharing is going to make a big comeback as such, but many services in a
>modern network have to be centralized for the network to be effective.

For the most part, file-serving is a good idea.  Novell does it very
well too...

I definitely think that distributed processing systems are the way to
go, especially now that the software to do it is getting better.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com      | "We cannot dwell in the time that is to come,
Andrew Loewenstern       |  lest we lose our now for a phantom of our
Cube Technologies, Inc.  |  own design." - Erendis      FYEO Public Key:
0000000701B61D1ADF0DFC9C16185CEA055200000007EB4A9FEB1922065D471A89E905B5
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: A Minor Mention of NeXT
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:06:34 GMT

henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:
> NeXT gets a mini-mention in the February 1993 Atlantic Monthly in
> an article about OS/2:
> 
>     ``The NeXT Computer, created by Apple's co-founder, Steven
>       Jobs, is a more recent variation on the Macintosh approach''.
> 
> The writer then goes on to state that OS/2 is the ``major extant
> example'' of a true multi-tasking operating system.
> 
> I knew it would happen: IBM invents multi-tasking.

Um, didn't they?  Mainframes have been "true" multitasking (I hate that  
term) well before PC's existed.

I don't actually remember which multi-tasking system came first (hey, I'm  
not *that* old), but I'm fairly certain that Unix wasn't it.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy