From: hhuang@athena.mit.edu (Han-Young Huang)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: new group?
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:25:58 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <oneil.714584073@cwis> oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
>hhuang@athena.mit.edu (Han-Young Huang) writes:
>
>>In article <oneil.714453868@cwis> oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
>>>I'm essentially a feminist: I want equal rights and respect for all people,
>>>but my prime concern is for women since I feel that women are the ones who
>>>don't have equal rights and who don't get as much respect.  
>
>>OK, then why don't you call yourself an individualist?  Why call yourself a
>>feminist?  Why give a warning signal to other groups that if it came down to
>>it, you'd possibly betray their liberal (or conservative, as in the case of
>>guns rights, school choice, less taxes, de-regulation) causes for your own
>>gender's?
>
>I call myself a feminist because, as I said, when it comes right down to it,
>I see a lot more women being discriminated against.  But I think the issues
>that you're bringing up have little to do with feminism or individualism.
>You're just trying to bring the Republican platform into this.  (I don't 
>think that everyone has the right to own an Uzi and I don't think that I 
>must support fundamentalist Christianity with my taxes.  If a Christian wants
>to choose the school he wants to go to, let him be individualist and pay for
>it, individually!)

(I brought the Republican platform into this for the exact reason that
you would claim that those planks have nothing or very little to do
with feminism or, more importantly, individualism.

Right to bear arms is a 2nd amendment right.  Individualism, in the
libertarian sense, is the government not taking away people's rights.

(I note that you used word "he" with regards to Christians.  What do
you think about the pronoun issue anyway?)

So the Christian's education taxes will now simply be a pure tax,
levied simply because "he" wishes to choose a private school?  This is
individualism, this utter disrespect for individual property?  So
being Christian and exercising the token "school choice," means having
to pay ?  This is "liberal religion tolerance"?

Furthermore, Republicans have never pushed for people to support
fundamentalist Christian schools with your taxes.  If you've heard
this somewhere, then this smear/trash is the product of typical
Democratic outright deceit.)

>>Do you wish equal respect for David Duke, Patrick Buchanan, Jerry Falwell, and
>>so on down the list of hard-right Republicans?  We should all have equal
>>*rights*, so long as none of us violate other people's rights.  *Respect* is
>>another matter entirely...
>
>????
>David Duke, Patrick Buchanan and Jerry Falwell all have more rights than I
>do.  (May I point out to you that this country does *not* have an equal 
>rights amendment?)

I disagree that the above-mentioned men have more rights than you do.
Name the rights they do have but oppressed women do not.  I may be
unaware of the situation (in which case I'm a fool).  Surprise me.

>                    And as far as respect goes, you are misunderstanding what
>I mean by respect.  I don't mean, "Gosh, Buchanan is a great guy, I respect
>him."  I mean, "I don't really like Buchanan, but just because he's a 
>fundie doesn't mean I have the right to withhold his rights."  Respect means
>giving him his rights, even though I don't really like him.  (The Republican
>party is notorious right now for showing a lot of disrespect for people.)

OK, "respect" means "respecting rights."

I agree the GOP platform is more disrespectful than it has been in a
long time.  The Democratic Party, with its record-breaking tax
increases, is also more disrespectful than it has been in a long time.
As a matter of fact, I fear the Democrat initiatives will disrespect
more people than even the Republicans would!

Would you say the Democratic Party is somehow less disrespectful
because it disrespects (taxes) without regard to gender, race, sexual
preferences?  Just as with Al Gore being "moderate" because he spends
on *everything*?

But let us use the word "disrespect" to mean bad-mouthing and ill-will
but *without* any infringement on rights (we can argue what is a right
and what isn't later).

Suppose I "disrespect" women.  What would you do if I discriminated
against women 128 times every month and enjoyed it every time?

>Sharon O'Neil
--
Han-Young Huang
hhuang@athena.mit.edu