HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:47:21 -0400 
From: Thomas Wesley Moyer <tm2o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Warnke Ministries Info request

I couldn't agree more with all that has been said........from us all
being sinners, to pedistals, to everything else.

It's amazing how much this group is agreeing :-)

I have always respected the man incredibly, especially considering it
has been part of the Lord's calling in my life to deal with occultic
forces in this area.  I have used both Mike's message and his past in
talking to satanists, and absolutely jumped at the chance to see him
when he did a show in Geensburg.  I was impressed by his show, and by
his talk.

Now I don't know what to think.

The crux of this message....I have read "Schemes of Satan" just lately
and had planned on writing to Warnke Ministries for help in using that
book and the concepts it contains in a massive effort to go down in this
region this fall.  What I need to know is if and how Warnke Ministries
has helped anybody out there, aside from just hearing the man's message.
 The Cornerstone article gave me the impression that the "Ministry" was
just a massive, money grubbing pass-the-buck group....something that I
want nothing to do with.  Or are there really people working for Mike
that care and know what they are talking about?  Has anyone talked to
any of these people and/or had info sent them from Warnke Ministries?

This is incredibly important, and I feel this could be a massive
stumbling block to something that the Lord has driven me to work on. 
Any and all information would be more than welcome.

                          
.........................................................Tom


   Thomas Moyer,    Knight on a Steel Horse (KAW GPz750)
    President of the Carnegie Mellon Riding Club (CMRC)
Carnegie Mellon University   Internet: tm2o@andrew.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, Pa                         MOYER%cmccvb@v.cc.cmu.edu
        ====================================
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He
  that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in
  righteousness He doth judge and make war.	   Rev. 19:11
From: kemery@nmsu.edu (Kendal Emery)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Michael W. Smith
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:50:18 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NMSU Computer Science


>>What is wrong with songs that don't share the scripture or a sermon. Certainly 
>>Jesus had mundane conversations in his life. Many of those writing here have 
>>some hyperpious criteria that they hold CCM singers up to. Where do they get 
>>this?
>>
>>What is wrong with a song about say.. marriage problems (ref many songs from 
>>Heart in Motion" Lets just try to have a place where we can avoid demoralizing 
>>or banal lyrics and music for a while.


>I must agree strongly.  Who has the right to define what music is Christian and  
>what is not Christian.  I do not believe Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith or others
>who have made successful "crossovers" intend to lead anyone astray.  In fact
>I believe they are doing exactly what Christ taught us to do and that is to be
>examples to the world.  They are being lights (Matt. 5) and the place where
>they are "not hidden" (a city set on a hill cannot be hidden) is in the
>"secular" marketplace.  Thus my point is this, rather than feeling an artist
>must have the words "Christ" or "God" in their song, or the song must be some
>sort of sermon, why can't Christians be able to lead by positive example.  Such  
>as singing songs about marital problems and solutions, or true friendship etc.
>	Let's be careful of judging someone else's intentions when we criticize 
>their career move.

Okay,  I wasn't going to say anything,  I was going to keep my mouth
shut and just read the posts,  but now....

First of all,  If we aren't supposed to judge music,  whether it be
christian or non-christian (I like that term better than secular)
then how do we determine what to listen to.  The Bible tells us to
not judge a person, but to judge the fruits.

I like Michael W. Smith.  I enjoy his music,  and I don't mind him 
crossing over to the "secular" (Oooh there's the "S" word) field.
I don't mind Amy Grant crossing over.  What I do mind,  is the fact
that on her videos,  I see her teasing a man in a laundry mat... That 
bugs me.  It is possible to be so like the world that they can't see
Christ in us any more.

There,  I feel much better now.

Kendal

--
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
** kemery@dante.nmsu.edu  (Kendal Emery)                         **
**                                                               **
**      "If Jesus came back today...                             **
**         We'd try to book Him on the Oprah Winfry Show"        **
**                      Randy Stonehill..Great Big Stupid World. **
**                                                               **
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
From: HJ46@lafibm.lafayette.edu (Baboo (Holton, Jeffrey))
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: RE: Def Leppard and Petra???
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:29:25 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Originator: news@lafcol

[Disclaimer:  I've been wrong when posting on this board before, so I
could be wrong now.]

In article <1992Jul27.070035.6282@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow) writes:
>I remember someone pointing out that the CD jacket for Def Leppard's
>_Hysteria_ album listed Petra in the special thanks.  Does anyone
>know the story behind this?  (Sorry if this has been hashed out
>before, but there are always new people who might be interested.)
>
>--PC

I used to own that album and I read the thank yous over and over again
just because I thought they were so insightful and mildly humorous,
especially once they get into all of John Lange's nicknames (I've
changed much in the past 2 years).  I'm sure I would have noticed if
Petra was mentioned in there.  Are you sure?

--J.
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Hey, leave Debbie alone!
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:52:54 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <84100@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>But I've really been impressed with "Heart In Motion."  It's good pop
>music (which immediately puts it a cut above Debbie Gibson!); that's

Hey, easy on Debbie Gibson.  Sure, her newest one sucked bad, but the first
two were pretty good top 40 pop albums.  They're nestled into my case right
along with Boston, Journey, Rush, Queen, et al.  (They seem rather out of 
place, but they're good :-)

Debbie always seems to get a bad rap.  At least she attempts to write her
own music (musical integrity and all that rot that's so big around here :-),
and has at least limited musical talent.  Her concert was pure pop, and
she keeps it squeaky clean.

If you want to rag on top 40, try Paula Abdul (blessed with the voice of
a choreographer) or Tiffany.

(Or forget top 40 and listen to One Bad Pig :-)

JRjr

-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
From: cw1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Chi-Tai (Frank) Wu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Sandy Patti's Divorce
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:53:45 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hi there,

    Is it true that Sandy Patti filed for divorce over a
month ago?

Frank
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:05:35 GMT

In article <84635@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>In article <64521@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt9730a@prism.gatech.EDU (Bill Standhardt) writes:
>>It just seems that all of the people on here are Baptists, or
>>secular. None of the other denominations seem to be present,
>>hence the conservative consensus on most of the threads lately.
>
>
>I'm a Bapregationalyrian.  That is, I became a Christian in a Baptist
>church, left it (and the faith), came back in an interdenominational
>group, moved to another city and went to a Congregationalist church,
>and now attend a Presbyterian church.  I've been a member at all three.
>Basically, when I move to a new place I find a church I like and go
>there.  In Philly, it happens to be Presbyterian.
>
>--Lauren

Yup. I agree. Who cares what the denomination of a particular church is
as long as the teaching is sound, well based in scripture, etc. Test all
things against scripture. I'm a BapEVfreeCharismaticFrsquare person. ie.
I started out Baptist (good grounding in scripture), then went to an
EV Free church, then Grace Community (non-denominational) and am now
a member of the Foursquare Denomination (for 12 years now) -- ie a
(gasp!) Charistmatic. I too just looked for the best church I could
find, with the most balance, tested and test all things against
scripture, and even confront my pastor if I don't agree instead of
just mumbling to myself about it. That has lead to some very interesting
conversations in this humble life! Anyways, I don't think one can
attribute any conservative tendencies of the group to denominationalism,
but rather to the common denominator that we all read the Bible. Enough
said.

                         --Stacey :-)


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mcr@meaddata.com (Mary Ries)
Subject: Opinions on the Grateful Dead? (no flames, please)
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:52:08 GMT

I have gotten a few comments from friends at church about the Grateful
Dead sticker on my car conflicting with the fish sticker. The GD
sticker was there before I got saved, but I still like their music,
and haven't really felt convicted to scrape it off.  Plus, its a neat
piece of artwork (long, skinny, flowery letters of the band's name).

My friends don't really criticize, more of a concerned curiosity. I
guess some people have an idea that the Grateful Dead are a bad
influence.

Does anyone know why the Grateful Dead has a kind of tarnished
reputation, or what is behind their name, or why they use skeletons as
a logo?  I haven't really analyzed their lyrics. Neither had the
people who commented on my sticker, they are mainly curious about
their name.  I've never really noticed a connection of the symbolism
to their lyrics.  They seem pretty harmless to me.  Am I being totally
naive? Does anybody know more about them?

(BTW, I haven't been reading the secular vs. christian music thread...
if there is one... I'm asking specifically about the Grateful Dead, I
really want to know! No flames, please :-)

_______________________________________________________________________
Mary Ries | Die, v.: | Software Engineer mcr@meaddata.com | To stop
sinning suddenly. | Mead Data Central ..uunet!meaddata!mcr | -- Elbert
Hubbard | Dayton, Ohio

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien)
Subject: Re: mike wankre: what about our knowledge of evil beings?
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:35:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.144601.20252@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
>
>Another topic, not yet discussed. Someone earlier made a reference to
>Mike's work being a key source of knowledge about the occult, satanic
>worship, and so forth. If the Cornerstone report is right, and he is
>basically a fraud, what does that imply about "our" knowledge of 
>satanism?
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
>jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

I can speak for the area of deliverance ministry in my own church. I have
never heard Mike Warnke quoted or referred to at all. I never see his
books either. Our ministry understanding comes from what scripture 
says about deliverance and spiritual warfare, and from what we have
encountered in deliverance and also from going to Africa and other
places where there are strong deliverance ministries and learning from
the pastors there, and all over the  world, really. In other words, our
understanding of the spiritual realm comes from Scripture and our 
relationship with God and thru fellowship, all the ways we also learn
everything else. Of course, we have worked with many ex-satan worshippers
and occultists who want out, and the only way out is deliverance through
Jesus Christ, so we've learned some stuff from them, plus the LAPD
(Los Angeles Police Department) has provided a lot of understanding, like
for instance, every rookie learns the difference between a cat killed
by a coyote and a cat sacraficed by satan worshippers, and of course, there
are satanic-inspired murders fairly regularly (the night stalker, and
remember those 14 Americans sacraficed on that ranch just south of the
border and finally the site and the bodies were found). This stuff 
doesn't seem to ruffle anyone's feathers too much really. It's almost
just voyeurism to care why someone murders someone. I mean, in LA, as
I've pointed out before, an average of one person is hit by gunfire
year round every HOUR, so most murders aren't even reported in the paper.
Anyways, what I'm saying, I guess, is that whether or not Mike Warnke
is a liar has no bearing on a legitimate deliverance ministry, since
deliverance is just a form of healing and part of the restoration of
the believer and the conforming of the mind to Christ's mind, etc. We
don't *need* Mike Warnke to tell us about the spiritual realm. We have
the Bible. I would definitely be concerned about basing ANY of my
theological conclusions on one man's word, rather than the Bible!
Sheesh! I mean, Warnke isn't the only ex-satan worshipper in the Church,
if we really must talk to an ex-satan worshipper to be able to figure
out how to minister to someone....Does all this make sense?

                     --Stacey

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:15:38 GMT

In article <64603@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt9730a@prism.gatech.EDU (Bill Standhardt) writes:
>In article <84728@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>> I sense an impending denominational flame war here.  Could this be
>> transferred to soc.religion.christian?  Or better yet, avoided
>> altogether?
>
>  Flame war, no. Intense discussion, yes. Although mail would probably be better
>  for all concerned.
>
>Bill
>
>
How about if I allow my response to bring us right back to CCM? How, you ask?
By "singing" you all a song by Nancy Honeytree that I like to sing when my
husband and I minister in music different places.
Here it goes:

"Well, I wanna tell ya people, it's a natural fact
Every man don't understand the Bible alike and that's all,
I tell ya that's all
But you better have Jesus, I tell ya that's all

The denominations have no right to fight
They all ought to go on treatin' each other right 
and that's all, I tell ya that's all
But you better have Jesus, I tell ya that's all

Well, it's right to stand together
Wrong to stand apart - and none shall enter heaven but the pure in heart
and that's all, I tell ya that's all
So you better have Jesus, I tell ya that's all

Well, the primitive BAPTISTS, they believe that you can't get to
heaven 'less you wash your feet and that's all, I tell ya that's all
and you better have Jesus, I tell ya that's all

Well, the African Methodists, they believe the same,
but you know, denomination ain't a thing but a name and that's all
I tell ya that's all, but you better have Jesus, I tell ya that's all

Well, you can go to your college,
You can go to your school,
But if you ain't got Jesus,
You's an educated fool and that's all,
I tell ya that's all,
Yes, you'd better have Jesus,
I tell ya that's all-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l!!!!"


BTW, I don't mind saying that I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic
Church, went to Catholic elementary school, all girls private catholic HS,
I actually believe I made a commitment to Christ on a Catholic retreat week-end
as a teen, but had no opportunity to grow in that, so immediately "back-slid",
met a wonderful friend who took me to an AG church (Assembly of God) when I 
was in college, became truly committed to Jesus there, got baptized, filled 
with the Holy Spirit and have been serving and committing myself to Him within
the AOG ever since. I am very grateful for the upbringing I had, but found it
lacking. I think it's good to share these things to know one another better,
but I think the song says it best for depicting what our HEART ATTITUDE needs
to be in this area.

  In HIS service,

     Linda

PS: MHO regarding Benny Hinn, Ken H. and Ken C.: I think they are all a bit
unbalanced and/or misguided, but calling them a cult is a bit extreme.

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Subject: Re: Amy Grant is NOT a dirty word!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:50:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.153804.23294@advtech.uswest.com> cvacura@uswat.uswest.com (Craig Vacura) writes:
>> In article <low-220792102128@l32282.mdc.com> 
>low%ewsvax.decnet@mdcgwy.mdc.com (Jerry Low) writes:
>
>>>I too used to listen to Amy and was a big fan until she started to make 
>>>the big crossover.  I think the last album I have of hers is "Lead Me One",
>>>I've listened to it, maybe twice.  I think most people's criticisms of 
>>>her (or at least mine) is that her music doesn't reach me anymore.  I don't

>I usually avoid 'Amy' discussions like rap music :-), but something hit me on 
>this one. 
>
>Remember, Amy isn't disclaiming her earlier work or stance.  If more people are exposed to, and enjoy, her current music more people will be drawn to listen to her earlier work.  People often buy prior music of artists they have just 'discovered'.  If they like what they hear they keep going back.
>
>So, I guess I like Amy's work and direction after all.
>
>V
>
I'd just like to add my comment to this, since I usually tend to avoid this 
topic as well, but this triggered something in my experience that struck me in
the same vein. A number of months ago I went to "Tape World" specifically 
looking for an old AG album for the words to "The Lord Has A Will". Well, I 
found the album, but NOT in the "Religious" section of the "secular" tape 
store. No, when I looked there, there was not an AG tape to be found, so I 
wandered over to Rock/Pop and found all the old stuff (Age To Age, Straight 
Ahead and all the other "Teen years" type stuff she put out) shelved right 
there with all the latest releases. This could have been because the clerks 
didn't know any better or something, but I was inwardly rejoicing and very 
blessed just thinkin' 'bout all the Rock/POp fans who might very likely buy
some of the old stuff, unheard, just because it was by AG. Only God, HImself,
knows what seeds will be planted from that very thing happening, but I'll just
bet there will be a fair share of unbelievers who WILL purchase those tapes!
The possibilities are endless!!!

In His service,

  Linda
From: gt9730a@prism.gatech.EDU (Bill Beldin Standhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Ripoffs
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:56:59 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul21.231540.823@pictel.com>, harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling) writes:
  
> If one expects a song to be taken seriously *as an artistic
> expression*, it must be somewhat original.  If one uses it for nothing
> more than a chordal foundation for the melody, then it will work, but I
> probably won't be interested in listening to it.  I would rather listen
> to the original, which undoubtedly required more creativity to produce
> than the copy.

  You know Dan, this was exactly one of the points that several of us 
  were trying to get across in this thread and the Petra Stealing 
  Hendrix thread. Thanks for letting us know your opinion.


  Bill



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bill "Beldin" Standhardt  Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't it be nice     |
| Georgia Tech              to be in love? Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't |
| gt9730a@prism.gatech.edu  it be nice to be above, all of the pain, and frust-|
| If I cared, I'd be        ration of being alone. Nobody, nobody, nobody likes|
| apathetic!!               to be chilled to the bone. - 77's                  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend)
Subject: Re: This zip thing
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:47:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.115904.25895@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, stewart@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Stewart) writes:
|> [How to unzip the files of Warnke.zip]
|> 
|> >When I did all this, all of my text files had a bunch of ^M characters in it.
|> >It makes the files more difficult to read. Does anyone have a quick and easy
|> >way to remove these? A sed script perhaps???
|> 
|> Just do the following:
|>  
|> dos2unix [infile] > [outfile]
|> 
|> That should do it.

Here's a little csh script that will remove the ^M characters and translate
the IBM graphics characters to ASCII as described in the format.not file:

set l=`ls *.txt`
foreach f ($l)
   tr -d '\015' < $f | tr '\304\256\257' -__ > $f.2
   mv $f.2 $f
end

You can either save it in a file and execute it, or type it in interactively
as shown.  Good luck!

--
John Townsend                     Internet:   johnt@meaddata.com
Mead Data Central                 UUCP:       ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt
8891 Gander Creek Dr.             GEnie:      J.E.Townsend
Miamisburg, OH  45342             Telephone:  (513) 865-7250 
                                  Telefax:    (513) 865-1755
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 11:00:53 -0400 
From: Grace En-Mei Yeh <gy00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke Controversy

I had recently got a zip file from Rick Mills at Cornerstone that
contains the article on Mike Warnke.  He had asked me to put it on an
ftp site.  First of all, I don't know which ftp site I should put it
one.  Another problem is that I don't know how I can get
access/authority to put it on an ftp site.  Can anyone help me?

Thanks.

-- Grace

=================================================
Grace Yeh, graduate student, INI
gy00+@andrew.cmu.edu

"But God demonstrates His own love for us in 
this:  While we were still sinners, Christ died 
for us."
			- Romans 5:8
=================================================
From: mdtanx@cs.umd.edu (Michael D. Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Repost of WARNKE article==================**************
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:36:26 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742



Hi- 

  I will repost warnke.zip to wuarchive.wustl.edu (/pub and 
/pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS).  For those of you without FTP access, I
will also post the archived file in uuencoded form.  The file
is fairly large, so it is ZIPped as well...

Michael Tan
mdtanx@cs.umd.edu
From: crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mike Warnke (summary of discussions)
Date: 31 Jul 92 04:56:26 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

:-(
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian