From: mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Secular, Muslim Brotherhood and Changes
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:11:14 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1k494fINNktm@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Ahmed) writes:
>
>In article <C1H43B.30w@uceng.uc.edu>, mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
>> In article <1jv3e1INNk4j@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Ahmed) writes:
>
>> >Please explain what this has to do with secularism.  Saying that
>> >secularism is recognized by the Qur'an is a paradox.  What Surah 109
>> >tells us is that there is no compulsion in religion and everyone is
>> >free to follow whatever religion they please.  This is *not* the same
>>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >as secularism.  And while Islam advocates democracy, it does not
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> Please explain this line.  According to what I know about secularism
>> everyone is free to follow whatever religion they please.
>
>Just because religious freedom is guaranteed by secularism does not
>imply the converse.  Secularism is defined as separation of religion and
>state.  Religious freedom simply means that anyone is free to practice
>whatever religion they please.  This has nothing to do with separation
>of religion and state.  

Please explain this in plain English.  What do you mean here?

>
>> >support secularism in the sense the word is used today.  For a
>> >Muslim, Islam is a way of life, and hence influences any ideology.
>> >
>> >It has become very fashionable in the academic world to jump onto the
>> >bandwagon of "secularism" and sit content that it is great and that it
>> >works.  Does it?  Has it been working in the neighbor the west of
>> >Bangladesh?  Does it work in Europe?  I grew up in predominantly Roman
>> 
>> India is having some problems now, but they will soon be solved,
>> do you think India would be better off as an Hindu state? Is Pakistan
>> better off because it is an Islamic state?
>
>I would question whether Pakistan is an Islamic state.  As for whether
>India would be better off as a Hindu state, I think activities by the
>BJP and other supporters of "Hindu India" indicate that that is
>unlikely to be the case.  One cannot speak of religious freedom when
>places of worship of a particular religion are torn down...

I agree with you.  I would prefer state and religion be seperate.
  
>> >
>> I think the US is a better example of a secular state.
>
>You do?  Why is Sunday a holiday here?  Christmas?  New Year's?  What
>are the laws generally based on?  What is the basis for evaluating
>something as "ethical" or "unethical?"  

Saturday too is a holiday.  There is an Indian restuarant near my house
it is closed on Tuesdays, you can start a company and give a holiday on
any day you want.  If the holidays are bothering you, work during Christmas
many shops are open on Christmas.  I think all of us could live with an
Islamic state, if it only means that Islamic holidays will be celebrated,
if the country has a majority muslim population. We in India celebrate
holidays of all religions, maybe that is why we get no work done.
>

>> 
>> Which Islamic state guarantees religious freedom?  I am waiting
>> for your rhetoric "there is no true Islamic state yet".
>
>If you're waiting for it, why do you ask?  Which countries do you
>consider "Islamic states?"  Bangladesh is not an "Islamic state" but
>Islam is the state religion and religious freedom is guaranteed by law
>and by Islam.
>
>-- Shakil
>

The countries which say they are Islamic states.  Please don't give us empty
words, tell me how many new temples and churches have been built in 
Bangladesh?  You are of the many Southasians who have benifited from
living in a secular society but yet preach fundamentalism.  How long
have you lived in Bangladesh?

Manoj