HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leifmk@Lise.Unit.NO (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:09:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.162252.6707@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey) writes:

 > But I also dislike is critics.  And I hate it when somebody commenting that
 > they like him gets met with snide, superior comments about how tasteless
 > someone must be to like such trash, by someone who's sold out.  With Heinlein,
 > there was always a substantial contingent on both sides of the argument.  With
 > Anthony, there's just me, because everyone else has become disgusted and gone
 > to alt.fan.anthony rather than endure our arrogant company.
 > 
 > --
 > ---Alfvaen(Canadian SF Quasi-Activist)
 > "You better hope and pray that you're gonna awake
 >  Back in your own world..."  ---Shakespear's Sister
 > Current Album--Weird Al Yankovic:In 3-D
 > Current Read--Robert Heinlein:The Past Through Tomorrow

Hey, I also liked *some* of the Anthony books I've read.  At least the
Incarnations series *started out* good (I really, really liked the first one).

Other books I have really and truly enjoyed include:  The entire DUNE cycle,
just about everything by Heinlein, Bear, Card, Brin, Benford, Asimov (well...
possible exeptions for certain of the later so-called 'Foundation' books...let's
be charitable and call those 'mistakes' instead of 'books', OK?).  Dick.  Farmer.
Sterling.  And yes, I still think Gibson's books are pretty nifty.

Go on--flame me.  But tell me one thing first:  Do you feel lucky?

Leif the .sigless (Norwegian SF Omnivore)
Current Albums--Ministry: Psalm 69
		Godflesh: Pure
		My Dying Bride: As the Flower Withers
Current Read--Farmer: The Magic Labyrinth
	      Gaiman etc: *All* of the Sandman (over and over and over...)
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: New SF Releases
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:14:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

ECZ5TAN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Morgan) writes:
>
>Hamilton, Laurell K. Star Trek: The Next Generation #24: Nightshade  (Pocket
>   Books, $5.50, pb, Dec)

Good book.  I can't comment on how good the Star Trek is, but the story
is way good.  Watch this author.

>McDonald, Ian. The Broken Land (Bantam, $11.00, tpb, Oct)

Ooo!

>Wilde, Oscar. Fairy Tales of Oscar Wilde, Vol. 1 (NBM, $15.95, hb, Oct) A
>   surprise to the list.

Why a surprise?  Wilde wrote some of the best literary fairy tales
ever.

>Yolen, Jane. Briar Rose (Tor, $17.95, hb, Sep)

Let's see, three years behind schedule?  This is, if you haven't heard
about it, is Sleeping Beauty retold into the Holocaust.

	Larry "Worth the wait, it should be" Hammer
--

                                \  "The work is rather too light, and bright,
LNH@physics.arizona.edu          \  and sparkling; it wants ... a long chapter
The insane don't need disclaimers \ of solemn specious nonsense." --Jane Austen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:37:42 GMT

dstein@europa.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
: In article <BuFqu8.K4y@math.uwaterloo.ca>, gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca
: (Guy Middleton) writes:
: |> I just finished Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov (who is he?  I've never
: |> heard of him before -- this is a first novel).
: 
:    Those who read Jablokov's short stories should not be surprised
:    if "Carve the Sky" is a very strong book.  I suspect the superb
:    novela "A Deeper Sea" few years ago was a precursor to the book. 
:    In Dozoi's Best of the Year you can read "Living Will", another
:    striking story of Jablokov.
: 
:  - David

Ah, yes, I remember "A Deeper Sea".  After all, I'm far enough behind on my
IASFM reading that I only read it a few months ago...  Is Jablokov the first
person to make dolphins such a disagreeable species, once communication was
opened?  Dolphins always seem to be like SF "elves" or something...I know in
Startide Rising there were some good and some bad, but Jablokov's are all
coarse and disagreeable...

--
---Alfvaen(Canadian SF Quasi-Activist)
"You better hope and pray that you're gonna awake
 Back in your own world..."  ---Shakespear's Sister
Current Album--George Michael:Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1
Current Read--Robert Heinlein:The Past Through Tomorrow
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Dick and Van Vogt (Was: Re: Who was Philip K. Dick ???)
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:23:54 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <6368@transfer.stratus.com> wayne@sw.stratus.com (Wayne  
Newberry) writes:
> One piece of trivia.....I think that Dick got some early notice for  
trashing
> A.E. vanVogt's work.  He became much more "noticed" after he tore  
the man's
> work to shreds.  I think his theme was that vanVogt's stuff was  
scientifically
> impossible, and therefore not worth reading.
> 
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Damon Knight?  Knight tore
Van Vogt's works apart. Specifically, he reviewed the World
of Null-A and pointed out all the illogical nonsense in it.
It was Knight who called Van Vogt a "pigmy at a giant typewriter"
since Van Vogt picked up much of his following during WWII, while
Heinlein, Asimov, De Camp, et al were busy elsewhere.  

Stanislaw Lem also dislikes Van Vogt.

Dick, on the other hand, praised Van Vogt on at least one
occasion.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: lemke@verbosa.ncd.com (David Lemke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mike Resnick reprints?
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:40:46 GMT
Organization: Network Computing Devices

I recently picked up a copy of _Soul Eater_, which was first published at
least 10 years ago, and I also saw a reprint of _Walpurgis III_.  Is this
an indication that all of these old books are going to be reprinted?
I've been trying to find _Birthright_ for years...

-- 
Dave Lemke				lemke@ncd.com
Network Computing Devices, Inc.
From: HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Lovecraft question
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:09:59 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22

In <16858C8C2.ADELEKTA@kentvm.kent.edu> adelekta@kentvm.kent.edu writes:

> 
>  
>  
>  While noticing the influence of H.P. Lovecraft in modern science fiction,
> someone pointed out to me that Lovecraft was in turn influenced by an early
> 20th century writer, whom I believe wrote a book called something like The
> King in Yellow, and who was responsible for many places/concepts generally
> attributed to Lovecraft.
>
 The King in Yellow was written around the turn of the century, if memory
serves me well.  There are four stories revolving around a legendary
book, the King in Yellow, a bit like Lovecraft's Necronomicon.  Anyway,
the people who come to possess, or read it, all tend to die.  In some 
editions of Chamber's book, like mine, there are a further set of stories
which are actually romance short stories.(Why there included, I'm not sure)
Finally, as a side note, the "Lords of Dusurra" sequence by Lawrence
Watt-Evans, has a mysterious character who goes by the name the King in 
Yellow, who is the employer of the book's main character.  The King,
as far as I can remember, is a God-in-waiting, and need certain items, or
actions performed by the main character, to bring about the conditions 
for the King's ascension to proper godhood.  I think.  Anyway, hope I've
been of help.  Cheers.
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 19:36:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Chris Waters takes us to task for putting down "simple" arts of 
telling a simple story well, and prefering instead flashy
stylistic tricks over fundamental writing skills. I have nothing
against clear prose, but _Falling Free_ was so bland. My idea of
non-flashy storytelling is something like Willis' _Doomsday Book_,
Simmons _Summer of Night_ or Sheffield's _Cold as Ice_.
Mind you, this is coming from somebody who has read (& enjoyed)
every novel by Jack Chalker and Timothy Zahn, so my taste is not
your taste.
Darn straight about Cyber-voodoo. It was fun when Gibson did it
in _Count Zero_ but enough already.
_Summer Queen_ has not yet been released in paperback.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson)
Subject: Re: Good writing (was Re: Piers Anthony)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:50:23 EDT
Organization: Lost Tribes of Gazebo

In article <1992Sep15.021629.6667@math.ucla.edu> troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.224831.12090@spss.com> markrose@spss.com 
>(Mark Rosenfelder) writes:

>>Authors may also want to edify, to outrage, to disturb, to puzzle, to 
>>challenge, to indulge themselves, to create pity and terror.  Is your
>>main reaction to Joyce or Kafka or Ellison that you feel "entertained"?
>                                    ^^^^^^^
>   What the hell is Ellison doing in this list?  Are you yanking us?
>Or have you never read Joyce or Kafka?

I'm sure Mark has read Joyce and Kafka.  I assume he's referring to
Ralph Ellison, since this seems to be a list of non-skiffy writers.



-- 
       Rod Johnson  *  rcj@caen.engin.umich.edu  *  (313) 764-3103
    
                "What I do doesn't happen in a warehouse"
                                          --Jim Dickinson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.bio,soc.culture.british
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:01:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.165636.20409@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>In article <NICKH.92Sep11112716@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>, nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.134212.19357@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:
>>
>>[lots of stuff about Burt, Lysenko, Eysenck, etc. etc.]
>>
>>   `social deviants' (i.e. the poor).  Even now, in Great-Brittain,
>>   Burts research is being used as an excuse to exclude 11-year olds
>>   from any further education.
>>
>>News to me, squire. All Britons get education to the age of 16. What
>>on Earth are you talking about?
>
>Presumably Ronald means the use of "IQ-based" tests in the "11 Plus" exam, or
>whatever it's called these days. It used to be the case that you flunked that,
>you were shipped off to a "secondary modern," and you were *history* with
>respect to higher (post 16-years-old) education.

	What education system were you in?  When I was a pimpled and
	acned youth, there was a steady stream of my contemporaries
	from the secondary moderns to the grammar school.

	Can anybody on the German educational system?  I recall that it
	had more layers than the English.  How are pupils assigned to
	the schools?  My experience with the Germans is that they were
	generally better educated than their British contemporaries
	and the Americans were a real embarassment.

	Alec.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Iain Banks...
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:34:08

rhamilt@husc8.harvard.edu (Rowan Hamilton) writes:

>> 	I remember hearing discussion of a new Iain Banks Culture book
>> called (I think) "State of the Art". Any word on when it will be available

I think it is availiable in an American hardcover version (or was that
just the novella with the same name?).

I have the British short story collection "State of the Art" [ISBN
0-356-19669-0, Price UK Pounds 13.95 (hardcover)], containing the
novella of the same name.

The novella is Culture, a couple of the short stories are Culture (or
*maybe* Culture ;-).

All in all I have to say that this short story collection is not my
favourite Iain M. Banks reading. It's like the short story form
doesn't give him time to develop his characters, and it's the
characters that are Banks' strength. (IMHO! of course...:-)

>>>>> rlw@IDA.ORG (Richard Wexelblat) writes:

> I'm giving up on Banks.

Sad to hear that...

> His novels seem to me gratuitously depressing.

Guess he isn't for everyone. He has given me many enjoyable hours of
reading. 

- Steinar
From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus)
Subject: Re: SNOW CRASH by Neal Stephenson
In-reply-to: as018b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu's message of 14 Sep 92 16:05:35 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of California, Irvine
	<920909.368448810@derrida.postmodern.com>
	<1992Sep14.160535.885@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:53:40 GMT


In article <1992Sep14.160535.885@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as018b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu ( aaron russell sher) writes:

   Anybody want to talk about _Snow Crash_?  It is sorta the topic, and all...
   It's also an incredibly awesome book, though I can't quite pin it to a
   genre.  I have only one question about it, which is this:  Did Stephenson
   change his mind after about the first chapter of the book?  All the stuff
   with the Deliverator is completely different in "feel" from the rest.  

   The Phrix

---------------------------------------------------------

Don't try to pin it to a genre, it will only make your head hurt. :-)
In all seriousness, if _Snow Crash_ belongs to any genre, it belongs to the
Neal Stevenson genre.  Stevenson has a writing style which I find to be
very unique and unlike anyone else I have run across in both SF and satire.
If you can find them, by all means pick up his other two books _The Big U_
and _Zodiac_.

I took the first chapter of _Snow Crash_ as being a "teaser"- kind of like
the opening scene in a James Bond movie.  Dump the reader in a foreign place
and then let 'em have it.

-Chris

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92714 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11764 rec.arts.sf.science:2819
From: howard@titan.hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Summary: Biology of nerds.
Date: 5 Sep 92 15:20:20 GMT
Reply-To: howard@hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc., Campbell, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.hal.com

In article <BtyCK2.JtD@newcastle.ac.uk> A.J.Gunn@newcastle.ac.uk (A. Gunn) writes:
>Actually there is a remarkably high prevalence of myopia in the general
>population; so high in fact that it seems to me that it is unlikely to
>have arisen only since industrial grade civilisation. Moreover it is
>potently correlated with intelligence.... count how many of your collegues
>wear glasses.

Check out this article:

Title	Math Genius May Have Hormonal Basis
FullAuthor	Gina Kolata
Journal	Science
Day	23
Month	Dec
Year	1983
Pages	1312
Volume	222
Number	4630
Annote	According to Norman Geschwind (Science, 9 July 1982, p. 141),
	left-handedness, mathematical talent, immune system disorders, myopia,
	male sex, and in utero testosterone exposure are related.
--
Howard Gayle
HAL Computer Systems, Inc.
1315 Dell Avenue
Campbell, California 95008
USA
howard@hal.com
Phone: +1 408 379 7000 extension 1080
FAX  : +1 408 379 5022
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: S.R. Donaldson
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:29:06 GMT

In article <9209151157.AA02492@mica.geology.utoronto.ca> julie@MICA.GEOLOGY.UTORONTO.CA (Julie King) writes:
>I purchased Donaldson's new book with much joy, anticipating the wonderful
>more wonderful writing in the style of the Covanent series.  I thought
>it was *horrible* and was extremely dissapointed!  Violence, horror, more
>violence, and sex.  I really don't see this as a villian turned victum but
>rather a study of deranged human lust and abuse.  Any comments?

I've read the first two books of the Gap series, and don't think I'm going
to read any more (I can't deal with the nightmares).

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant had one antihero, someone who was not all
that noble, or all that great, who did not want to leap up into herohood,
but, rather, wanted to be left alone to his miserable little life.  He was
surrounded by people who *wanted* to be heroes, who *wanted* to great and
noble things, and, sometimes, they did so.

The Gap series has one marginally, at best, decent human being (Morn), and
she is surrounded by people who are, at best, sociopathic, and, at worst,
evil.

I don't think the point he's going to try to get across is worth it.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque)
Subject: Videophones (was Re: Vinge's singularity
Keywords: Malthus
Organization: Pseudopolis Yard
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:26:07 GMT

charless@sco.COM (charles stross) writes:
>
>BZZT: misapplication of technology strikes again!
>
>As I understand it, as far back as the early 60's AT&T tested a 
>prototype videophone. The thing that killed it wasn't cost or
>technology -- it was the sheer lack of imagination of the
>researchers, who figured that the only reasonable market for such
>a device (which had no business applications, right?) consisted
>of housewives. So they rounded up a sample of housewives and
>discovered, to their astonishment, that people who don't work for
>a living and (then maybe more than now) put great store on
>appearances _didn't_ want just anybody to be able to phone up 
>and see them without their make-up and unprepared for public
>appearances.

Somewhere I read that they actually did install a few v-phones in the
late 60's.  It was in Chicago and they went into business offices.

My understanding is that these failed mostly because of cost.  At the
time, they did not have digitized video but had to use analog tv.
This meant that they not only had to wire with coax, but the
switchboard to handle it cost lots more than a voice-only one.

Also, the camera was mounted above the screen, which meant that you saw
a picture of the other person looking downward.

---
Dan Tilque    --     dant@techbook.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ojvind@plato.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Subject: ESFA awards
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:54:48 GMT

Well, Brad, now that the Hugos have been announced,
what about the ESFA that we al voted for?
   _
-- Ojvind
From: HISC9016351D@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: David Gemmel
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:04:31 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

> 
> >>I can at least verify that Gemmel isn't published in the Houston area...or  
> >>I'm having extremely bad luck finding his novels or the bookstores here  
> >>just don't stock his work.  After reading the praised heaped upon him, I'm  
> >>about ready to special order one or two.  Any suggestions/recommendations?
> >>--
Gemmel has written a number of series of books, though not necessarily writing
a series then moving onto something else.  He has come back to a series and 
added more books.  The series, and stand alones are:
The Drenai Tales
1.Waylander
2.Legend (Against the Horde in U.S.)
3.The King Beyond the Gate
4.Quest for Old Heroes
The John Shannow Books
1.Wolf in Shadow (The Jerusalem Man)
2.The Last Guardian
Gemmel's Arthurian Books
1.Ghost King
2.The Last Sword of Power
Series set in Ancient Greece
1.Lion of Macedon
2.Dark Prince
Stand Alones
1.Knights of Dark Renown
2.Morningstar
Of these, the best by far is Legend.  Coming close are Knights of Dark Renown,
The Arthurian books and Wolf in Shadow.  Note:all of them are really, really
good.  I can't speak highly enough of them.   Also, the
omnibus edition, Drenai Tales, had an initial print run which was signed by
Gemmel himself.  Unfortunately, the only place I know where you can get it
is either from the U.K., or some places in Australia. Finally, Gemmel
wrote a book, Chaosbringer, after he had Legend published, which told the early
years of Druss's life, searching for his wife.  This wasn't accepted, but in
an interview three or four years ago, he said he would try to have it 
published after tidying it up.  I don't know whether he intends to now, but
the short story in the omnibus edition, Druss the Legend, is and excerpt
from Chaosbringer.  This short story was published in a U.K. magaine,
Game Master International, some years ago.   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 03:21:33 GMT

Sheesh, people.  Lois Bujold won the *nebula* for Falling Free.
You can hardly complain about FEN voting.

Also for the mountains of mourning, I think.

She won the Hugo for the Vor Game and just now for Barrayar.

As she said, "last year you voted a Hugo for your favourite novel.
This year, you voted for MY favourite novel."

And she is right, Barrayar is her best work to date.

Bone Dance came in second, to my surprise (but not regret, it was
a good novel.)


Later, I am sure you will hear reports on the Hugo Scandal.  
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: mb7@ukc.ac.uk (M.Bloom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:23:00 GMT
Followup-To: mb7@ukc.ac.uk
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

I have just read the books Enders Game, Speaker for the dead and Xenocide, 
by Orson Scott Card. I found them quite good, but I'm curious as to whether
there is a 4th book after Xenocide? In the preface to Speaker for the Dead,
the author mentions that he split Xenocide into two books, due to it's
length. Did this happen?

Any info on this would be much appreciated!

Mark Bloom
From: chc@greco-prog.fr (Christophe CARRE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: List of Hugo prizes
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:42:13 GMT
Organization: ENSERB (Electronic & Computer Science School) Bordeaux FRANCE

Hello,

I'm looking for the list of Hugo prizes. Where can I find it ?

Epsi.

PS: I can FTP to USA, but I can't go to the USA (I'm in France).
----------------------------------------------------------------
la vf:
Je suis a la recherche de la liste des prix Hugo. Ou puis-je la trouver?
Par la meme ocasion, pouvez-vous me dire ceux qui sont traduits en francais.
Merci.
From: Fritz.Niespodziany@p4.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Fritz Niespodziany)
Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org
From: rmcgover@aludra.usc.edu (Rob McGovern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Help on Upcoming? Robert Jordan book
Date: 7 Sep 1992 18:56:35 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Does anyone out there know when Robert Jordan is going to release the
sequal to _The Dragon Reborn_ ?  Or at least when it is going to be
out on paperback?  Any information would be usefull and appreciated.
Thanks ahead of time.  

Rob McGovern                    rmcgover@aludra.usc.edu




Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written