HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Unity in Thought, language or DOMINATION
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:15:57 GMT
Reply-To: suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway

In article <1992Dec28.105456.18318@news.columbia.edu>,
ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) writes:
> In article <01GSRJIHFKF6006MJF@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>
RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
>
>#######################################################################
#

	[ ... ] 
	Pek ilgilendirmedi, uzgunum

> 
> >  
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooo
> > 
> >               .-~~-.--.
> >              :         )                  IT IS NOT A DENIAL, I AM
JUST
> >        .~ ~ -.\       /.- ~~ .             VERY SELECTIVE ABOUT THE
REALITY
> >        >       `.   .'        <                I ACCEPT.
> >       (         .- -.         )
> >        `- -.-~  `- -'  ~-.- -'
> >          (        :        )           _ _ .-:
> >           ~--.    :    .--~        .-~  .-~  }
> >               ~-.-^-.-~.\_      .~  .-~   .~
> >                        \ \'     \ '_ _ -~
> >                         `.`.    //
> >                . - ~ ~-.__`.`-.//
> >             .-~   . - ~ }~ ~ ~-.~-.
> >         .' .-~      .-~       :/~-.~-./:
> >        /_~_ _ . - ~                 ~-.~-._
> >                                         ~-.<
> 
> What does this mean? 
	Gulu seven dikeninede katlanir
	veya
	Dikenine katlanan gulunude sevmeli -:)
> 
> >
>
>ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooo
> 
> Hurmetlerimle,
> 
> Nermin     ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
> 
> --
> Dilde, fikirde, iste birlik.
> Unity in language, in thought, in work.
> Ismail Gaspirali (1851-1914)

Selam getirmisem
Suleyman
From: jamshed@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jamshed Masood)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Travel/Sightseeing in Turkey
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:12:39 GMT
Organization: illorganized!!

Hi Netters

Is there a travel advisory/FAQ on Turkey. Can somebody please pass
me some recommendations on travel to and within Turkey
--
Jamshed
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:58:16 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <29809@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:

> In article <Dec.21.18.07.57.1992.19716@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec21203635.AA43543@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:
> >State planning cannot be done without interest rates and
> >without controlling the inflation rate.
> 
> If there is no interest there won't be any inflation.
> Inflation is due to false profits banks gain from the people
> through interest.  If you do not have interest this false profit
> disappears, and you do not have inflation any more which makes poor
> poorer and rich richer.

This is not correct. The only way inflation can be stopped is if
prices of all goods and wages and salaries are frozen. As long 
as the farmer wants more for his wheat, the memur wants a raise,
the bakkal wants to make a profit, there will always be inflation.

Interest is just a way to take this into account. There was inflation
throughout the Ottoman times.

The correct way to interpret 'no interest' is probably as 
'no usury`. And a better, more precise and more accurate
way is by computing the difference between the inflation rate
and the interest rate and keeping that to some small number.

AFter all, if it's Ok to interpret 'wine' to mean 'alcoholic
beverage', what can be the reason for refusing to admit the
new interpretation of `no interest`.  I think I have an 
excellent candidate-answer; pure, sheer, clear ignorance of
the Ulema. They can comprehend `alcohol` but cannot comprehend
economics--the dismal science.
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: RP ISTANBUL MILLETVEKILI HASAN MEZARCI'NIN LAIKLIKLE ILGILI GORUSLERI
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:31:35 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Dec28044517.AA25140@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:

>Refah Partisi Istanbul Milletvekili Hasan Mezarci:
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>   Yage, 28/04/1992 : 
>
>   ``"Laiklige yemin ettiniz, yemininizi bozdunuz" diyen Demirel'e
>     soruyorum: ayni andi siz de icmediniz mi? Bu andin icinde
>     devletcilik, milliyetcilik yok mu? Simdi siz devletci misiniz, serbestci
>     mi? Milliyetci misiniz, mozayikci mi?''

Mozayikci ne demek bilen var mi? :-)	
Devleti satana batirana bir sey demeyip Laiklige dil uzatana hemen
cullaniveriliyor.  Bu da ancak devleti satanlarla laikligi savunanlarin
ayni saflarda oldugu izlenimini verir.  
(Anahtar: Cahit Caglar)

>
>   ``Anayasa'daki `ant' metni, demokrasi laiklik dininin mensuplarini
>     baglar. Bu metin, Islam'a gore yemin degildir, batildir. Muslumanlari
>     baglamaz.''

Saniyorum bu celiskili bir aciklama.  Nitekim bu konuda Islam
Ulemalari ihtilaf halindeler.  Ancak Hasan Mezarci bu sekilde
dusunmeseydi herhalde o andi icmezdi.

> RP bunyesinde bulunan iki guruptan, muhafazakarinin en radikal kanatinda
> bulunan Hasan Mezarcinin bu goruslerine katilmamak elde degil. Ne dersiniz?

>saygilarimla
>------------
>kaya

Aktarma icin tesekkurler.  Hasan Mezarci adini sadece duymustum ama
onu dinlemis gibi olmak sayenizde mumkun oldu.  Anladigim kadariyla
kendisi %80'i sizin aksinize dogruyu asanlardan.



Hamid
From: news@anatolia.mn.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: FTAA'ye Bagli Turk Derneklerinin Yilbasi Programlari
Date: 21 Dec 1992 20:45:27 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


ISTANBUL SPOR KULTUR VE EGITIM DERNEGI :
--------------------------------------
TURKISH KITCHEN RESTORANININ NEW YORK'TAKI ILK
GECESINDE GELEN 1993'E HEP BIRLIKTE OLALIM.

YEMEK, SAMPANYA, ILK ICKI, MUZIK, DANS VE SENENIN
ILK ISKEMBE CORBASI DAHIL UCRET SADECE  $ 50.00

BODRUM GECELERDEN GITARIST GOKHAN VE BIRCOK
SUPRIZ SANATCILAR.

GENIS BILGI ICIN :
(908) 828-5408 - SINASI KOSE
(908) 574-1396 - ATA BEY

TURKISTAN AMERIKAN DERNEGI :
--------------------------
MUZIK, EGLENCE, YEMEK, DANS VE BIRCOK SUPRIZLER
UCRET SADECE : $ 50.00

UZBEKISTAN'DAN 10 KISILIK TURKISTAN FOKLOR GUBU
GRUBU O GECE SAHNEDELER. 

GENIS BILGI ICIN : 
(718) 646-3815 KEMAL TASKENT



ANADOLU KLUBU :
-------------
HUNTINGTON TOWN HOUSE IN THE REGENCY GARDEN SUITE
HUNTINGTON , NEW YORK (LONG ISLAND)

BLACK TIE  COCKTAILS - 8:30  DINNER 9:30
UCRET : $100.00

GENIS BILGI ICIN :
GULSEN - (718) 646-3489
GURSEL - (516) 822-7690
AKSOY -  (516) 692-6728
ERGENER- (516) 692-2929
TOMBULOGLU - (516) 799-0012


TURKISH KITCHEN ADRESI :
----------------------
386 3RD AVENUE - MANHATTAN

TURKISTAN DERNEGI :
-----------------
2302 WEST 12TH STREET, BROOKLYN , NY
From: speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: KAYANIN BILGISI
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:26:51 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Dec21203635.AA43543@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:
|
|
| birikiminin garantisi olan bankacilik, krediler ve faiz Islam duzeninde
| yoktur.
|


Mr. KAYA ve TURLERININ ISLAM DINI hakkindaki bilgileri iste
bu kadar. Allah kendi elleriyle kendilerini rezil etmelerini nasil
nasib ediyor. Islamda bankacilik yokmus. Gulecegim simdi.

Faizi reddetmek bankaciligin olmamasi demekmis ? Bunada gulecegim.

Mr. KAYA ortaya degisik kartlar atiyorsun. Yemezler.
Sakin simdi kalkipta hadi gosterin islamda bankacilik
nasil dir. Islam da ekonomik sistem nasil olacaktir ?
seklinde sorular yoneltmeye.

Dedigim gibi o konulardada yazariz yazmasina da zamanini
biz biliriz. Sen once YALANLARINI ve SAHTEKARLIGINI 
itiraf edip muslumanlardan ozur dile.

Diger net sakinlerinden ise ilgilenenler icin 
piyasada islam ekonimik sistemini anlatan kitaplar
mevcuttur. Lutfen en yakin kitapciniza gidiniz.
Detaylari vermek isterdim. Fakat KAYAnin kartini
isletmek istemem. Birde arayip bulunca daha zevkli oluyor
okumasi.

Musluman herkese selam ve dahi guzel kelam ile

Ercan








| saygilarimla
| ------------
| kaya
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC
Date: 2 Jan 1993 17:09:19 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

-------------------------------------------------------
                MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC

When you want to know about how Muslims see the issues then come
visit the Muslim conferences on APC!

                GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS

There are now TWO conferences devoted to Islam and Muslim-related
issues worldwide on the APC networks.

GEN.ISLAM - This is the forum for discussions about Islam the religion, its
world-view and its theology. Here you will find information from and about
the message of the Qur'an and the life and collected traditions of The
Messenger.

There will also be a range of information and discussions on other topics
such as Islamic texts, Muslim views on marrige, family, society, and the world.
Important events and news on the development of Islamic thought are also
covered.

GEN.MUSLIMS - devoted to news and discussion of Muslims and
Muslim-related issues worldwide. From events in the Balkans to
news from India, this conference is the place to talk about what's
happening to Muslim communities around the world.

Did you know that there are one billion Mu
slims worldwide? Did you
know that there are 54 independent nations where Muslims are a
majority of the population? Did you know that Indonesia is the
largest Muslim country in the world? Did you know that Islam is the
second largest and fastest growing religion in the United States?

Please come to GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS to find out more!

And if you've got news or announcements or questions about Islam
and Muslim-related issues and events, let us know and send them to
GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS.

Very sincerely,

Jennifer Smith                  Farzin Deravi
Gen.Muslims Facilitator         Gen.Islam Facilitator
pnmideast@igc.apc.org           f1deravi@gn.apc.org
From: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Turk=Musluman Degildir (**maestro**)
Keywords: none
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:01:30 GMT
Reply-To: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway

Yahu bay{an}lar ne kadar zor dinle irki birbirinden ayirmak!

Irkimiz=Turk.
Dinimiz=Ataturk

Irklari=Arab
Dinleri=Muhammed

Irklari=Yahudi
Dinleri=Isa

Bu kadar basit

Selam getirmisem
Suleyman

Tantal kondansator kafa (koca kelle) bana yeni bir din bulabilr,
hee, bulsuuun, noolacakki, bir daha tapariz, tapmak kotumu sankim?

-- 
	"Too many small smarmy monks around, I love them, however."
       		                                   Ishak Shalikom
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: THY, Bond exports etc.
Date: 28 Dec 1992 12:47:08 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

: THY {Turkish Airlines} Among World's Biggest Airlines
: 500 Families From Akhiska
: Turkish Red Crescent Aid To Albania
: Bond Exports To European Markets

THY {TURKISH AIRLINES} AMONG WORLD'S BIGGEST AIRLINES

Turkish Airlines  (THY) has  entered the list  of the  12 biggest
civil aviation companies in the world.

Yasar Topcu,  Minister of Transport and  Communications said that
THY surpassed Lufthansa for the size  of the fleet and the number
of passengers carried and in Europe was equal to Swissair.

An  intensive campaign  is  in progress  to  develop the  company
further and increase passenger capacity. Topcu said: "The type of
passenger  using THY  has  changed. Many  foreign businessmen  in
Europe now prefer THY."

First class will soon be introduced on domestic flights.

500 FAMILIES FROM AKHISKA

The Council of  Ministers has agreed to the  settlement in Turkey
of  500 Akhiska  Turkish families.  According to  the Council  of
Ministers decision,  150 Akhiska Turkish families  who are living
in various ex-Soviet republics will be settled in Turkey in 1992.
The remaining 350 families will arrive in 1993.

TURKISH RED CRESCENT AID TO ALBANIA

Albanian President  Sila Berisha  has expressed his  gratitude to
Turkey for the Red Crescent aid which has been sent to help 7,000
families, victims  of a flood  disaster that occured  in northern
Albania.

Turkey  is dispatching  large  quantities of  food, medicine  and
clothing  to   the  victims,  the  first   consignment  of  which
consisting  of  8,000  blankets,  1,000  warm  garments  and  500
kilograms of medicine were flown  to the Albanian capital, Tirana
on November 30.  In addition, The Turkish Red  Crescent will also
send 2,500 tons  of flour, 100 tons of macaroni  and one ton each
of sugar, margarine and tea.

BOND EXPORTS TO EUROPEAN MARKETS

The Turkish  Development Bank has  issued bonds worth  15 billion
Yen in the European money markets.

The  agreements  regarding the  first  European  bond issue  were
signed by the  Director General of the  Turkish Development Bank,
Ozal  Baysal, officials  of  Nikko Europe  PLC  and as  guarantor
Gulnur  Ucok,  Head of  the  Department  for International  Money
Markets in the Undersecretariat of Tresuary and Foreign Trade.

The bonds  have a term  of 5 years and  an interest rate  of 6.5%
p.a.

NEWSPOT, December 1992
            _
|-| /-\ |_ |_| |<
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:42:07 GMT

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

>In article <tervio.9@katk.Helsinki.FI> tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI (TERVI| MARKO J) writes:

>>So if 
>>there is a "joke of the month" it was started by the president of Turkey.

>Consult some scholarly sources, for a change.

 This answer, coming from Cosar/Mutlu/Argic etc., should be the joke of the
 year.  Yeah, perhaps the book of prof. Shaw (a ... scholarly source)
 could help.

>Serdar Argic

 Panos Tamamidis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Subject: Re: Bir mani (folk song)
Keywords: Biyik
Reply-To: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:40:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.105905.16209@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.082308.1940@news.columbia.edu>,
>ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec21.151507.23598@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no
>(Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>> >In article <1992Dec20.115305.10338@news.columbia.edu>,
>> >ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) writes:
>> >> 
>> >> Asagidaki mani Kirim Tatar lehcesindedir. Biyik ile ilgili
>atismalarda
>> >bizim de tuzumuz olsun.
>> >> 
>> >> Kaya kayaga bakar, kayadan seller akar.
>> >> Sirma miyik turganda, chort sakalga kim karar?
>> >	Turkce'si:
>> >	Kaya kayaya bakar, kyadan seller akar.
>> >	Sirma biyik dururken, kose sakala (tuysuze) kim bakar/(karar
>kilar)?
>> >
>> >	Bu dogru cevirimi acaba?
>> 
>> Bu maninin Anadolu'da soylenen sekli:
>> 	Kale kaleye bakar, kaleden kanlar akar
>> 	Delikanli dururken ihtiyara kim bakar.
>
>	Cok sagol, bu ceviri de tam anonim butun manilerdeki gibi,
>	idda etmiyorum benimkinin dogrulugunu, Mark (Hubey)'in de
>	altini cizdigi gibi 'chort'  kisa kesilmis anlamda.
>	Boylece manideki ikinci satir soylede olabilrmi?
>
>	Sirma biyik dururken, sakalsiza kim bakar.

Olmamasi icin hic bir sebep gormuyorum. Her ne kadar aslinin manasini degistiriyorsa da biyik konusundaki atismalara sizin ceviriniz daha uygun oluyor.

>	
>	Sirma biyik=delikanli analminda cogu kez, haklisiniz.
>
>Selam Getirmisem
>Suleyman
>
>> Sizin cevirinizdeki "kose sakal" kismi zannedersem yanlis. Cunku kose
>olan bir kisinin sakali olmasa gerek. "Chort" kelimesinin ne manaya
>geldigini tam olarak ben de bilmiyorum. Kirim Tatarca'sinin yapilmis bir
>sozlugu bildigim kadari ile yok. Bu yuzden s> ize tam olarak bir
>aciklama yapamiyorum. Fakat cumlenin gelisinden cikan mana bence "kIr
>(grey)" olmasi gerekir. Cunku "sirma" kelimesi biyigi tanimliyor ve
>mecazi olarak gencligi ifade ediyor. Buna gore "chort" kelimesi de
>ihtiyarligi ifade etmesi g
>
>	"sirma" Azericede "duz, narin, genc kil/sac" anlaminda
>	Bir cok Azeri manilerinde de 
>	"sirma telli ko"rpe balam"  ve 
>	"kara telli akca balam" cok gecer.




>Selam Getirmisem
>Suleyman

>> 
Hurmetler
Nermin
>> 
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >Selam getirmisem
>> >Suleyman
>> 
>> Selamini almisem
>> Bilmukabele edirem
>> Nermin
>> 
>> >> Kaynak; Mustacip Ulkusal, DOBRUCA VE TURKLER. 2ci baski, Ankara:
>1987.
>> 
>> 
>> >-- 
>> >	"Too many small smarmy monks around, I love them, however."
>> >       		                                   Ishak Shalikom
>> 
>> 
>
>-- 
>	"Too many small smarmy monks around, I love them, however."
>       		                                   Ishak Shalikom
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: TSA-L (fwd)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 12:42:02 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

 The Turkish Studies Association of North America has established a new
 network list [TSA-L] to permit discussion of any/all academic issues related
 to Turkish Studies, broadly defined to include all disciplines in the arts,
 humanities, and social sciences, and to include all areas where Turkish/
 Turkic peoples have lived.

 One may join the TSA-L list by addressing to listserv@msu.bitnet the
 message:  subscribe TSA-L your name.

 Alan Fisher, Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48824
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Turk=Musluman Degildir (**maestro**)
Keywords: none
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:26:48 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Dec21.120130.14557@ulrik.uio.no> suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
|Yahu bay{an}lar ne kadar zor dinle irki birbirinden ayirmak!
|
|Irkimiz=Turk.
|Dinimiz=Ataturk
What about Kurt?

|
|Irklari=Arab
|Dinleri=Muhammed
|
|Irklari=Yahudi
|Dinleri=Isa
        Do you mean Moses?
|
|Bu kadar basit
|
|Selam getirmisem
|Suleyman
|

First, you should learn the concept 'Din' and then you will throw your
rubbish.  

Beytullah
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Turkiye' den Futbol
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:47:11 GMT
Reply-To: hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Stockholm University


In article <92355.164833YENER@TRMETU.BITNET>, Yener YIGIT <YENER@TRMETU.BITNET> writes:
|>Path: kth.se!sunic!mcsun!ub4b!news.cs.kuleuven.ac.be!blekul11!frmop11!trearn!trmetu!yener
|>Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
|>Date: Sunday, 20 Dec 1992 16:48:33 TUR
|>From: Yener YIGIT <YENER@TRMETU.BITNET>
|>Message-ID: <92355.164833YENER@TRMETU.BITNET>
|>Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
|>Subject: Turkiye' den Futbol
|>
|>Bu kadar hararetli tartismalar arasinda kac kisiyi ilgilendiriyor
|>bilmiyorum ama bu haftanin birinci lig sonuclari soyle:
|>
|>Bakirkoy        -  Bursa  ......... 2 - 1
|>Galatasaray     -  Ankaragucu ..... 3 - 0
|>Gaziantep       -  Trabzon ........ 1 - 2
|>Genclerbirligi  -  Besiktas ....... 0 - 0
|>Karsiyaka       -  Kocaeli ........ 0 - 4
|>Kayseri         -  Fenerbahce ..... 0 - 3
|>Konya           -  Altay .......... 2 - 2
|>Sariyer         -  Aydin .......... 4 - 1
|>
|>Yarinda puan durumunu yazacagim.
|>Ne dersiniz? Ilgilenen var mi acaba?

Var var, Yener'cigim sen yazmaya devam et,
Besiktas hakkinda iyi haberler istiyorum senden....
Ortadogu'dakilere de hurmetler...

Hoscakal

|>Yener Yigit
|>



Hilmi Eren
Stockholm University
Sweden
Hilmi-er@dsv.su.se
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Date: 25 Dec 92 18:32:09 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <29841@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:

> There has been a lot of mailings back and forth by people who are not qualified
> about Islamic Economy including me.  Since neither are we qualified nor
> do we have time to seek references, let me repeat my point which is related
> to two aspects which has nothing to do with Islamic Economics:
> 
> 1.  Present banking practice      2.  An unjust phenomena


Here's the answer to the first question.


Mathematics of interest are too simple for anyone with a high
school education not to know. Here it is;

You deposit P units of money at the beginning of the year. At the
end of the year it becomes P + iP = P(1 + i) where i is the interest rate.
This money at the end of the second year becomes;

	P + iP + i(P + iP) = P(1 + i)^2
	So on for the third year, etc. 

In general for the nth year it is P(1+i)^n. A little thinking
shows that this is exponential growth. 

The question is what is it? Consider the loaf of bread in the
beginning of the first year. Say it is A. At the end of the 
year it will have increased to A + rA = A(1+r) where r is
the inflation rate for bread. At the end of the nth year, the
price of bread will be A(1+r)^n.

If the inflation rate r is equal to the interest rate, then no one who
puts his money into the bank gets anything for nothing because
the money still buys a loaf of bread. Any fool who puts his money
under his matress, gets cheated for he cannot now buy his loaf of
bread. Any bank who asks for people to put their money in the
bank and does not pay interest cheats the people by giving them
less money years later, than what it was worth.

Where's the injustice ?

I'm preparing an extremely simple model of a macroeconomy along
simple-similar lines. I'll post that too.



> In present banking system, a man who puts a certain amount to the bank
> receives the money+a FIXED amount at the end of a period.  The fixed
> amount is gained WITHOUT RISK since the bank is the guarantor.

See above.


> Now, my questions are:
> 
> IS IT JUST FOR A MAN TO MAKE MONEY WITH HIS MONEY WITHOUT ANY RISK?

Maybe you can now paraphrase this question in light of the
above so that we may understand what you are asking.


> WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

Governments print them :-)..   Ok, more seriously, what are you
asking ?
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: sadik@eedsp.gatech.edu (Bayrakeri Sadik)
Subject: Re: Mustafa Kemal Pasa'nin (Nejat'in babasinin kimligi...)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 02:57:21 GMT

Nejat Bey,

Cok hakli bir konuya deginmissiniz.
Turk toplumunda aslinda arastirilmasi
gereken asil sizin gibilerin nereden
geldigi ve bu toplumda ne yaptiklari.
Saniyorum, yapmaniz gereken ilk arastirma,
saygideger babanizin ve dedenizin , hatta
buyuk dedenizin , annanenizide katabilirsiniz,
sizi ortaya cikarabilmek icin ne gibi asamalardan
gectikleri ve boyle bir bilesimin formulunu
nereden bulduklari. Devam ediniz, cok mesafe
kaydediyorsunuz.
                          
                            saygilarimla
                            S. Bayrakeri
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:13640 news.admin.policy:928