From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Different Strokes
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:26:32 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1993Jan4.172613.15254@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan4.112401.28898@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>Not the gay men I hang out with.  A very few of my friends
>>>and acquaintances might, I suppose, but they have their own
>>>bathrooms, so I am spared any sense of personal assault.

>>Assault?  Good heavens, is it as dreadful as that?  Are
>>women assaulted by cremes and moisturizers too?

>Jess, I'm talking about my _bathroom counter space_ being
>assaulted, in the way that Arne's was by his roommate's
>boytoy.  

Well, even though I've never thought about it, I suppose a
shelf *could* be assaulted.  "Take *this* (slams down
mousse)!" *POW!!* *BAM!!* "And *that* (crashes down hair
styling tool)!" Poor old shelf.

>All these cosmetics take up space that I need for my
>Preparation H tubes.  Otherwise, out of sight (and scent),
>out of mind.

I was on the phone when I read this, caused me to whoop
right into my friend's ear!  But inquiring minds want to
know: does it really stop the itching and burning?  Or are
you using it for a facial?

>>I wonder if the problem here is the perception that this
>>stuff is not butch enough for some folks.

>See below.

>>Even stranger than what turns people on is what turns them
>>off, eh?  I mean, if one is going to be grossly intolerant,
>>at least it's nicer not to do it over something that really
>>matters.

>Where's the gross intolerance?

In my projection of your turning down a hunky prospect
for having Oil of Olay on his nightstand, I guess.

>>Not you, necessarily, but quite a few men, gay and straight
>>and otherwise, are conditioned not to use any of this stuff
>>because it's woman-identified.  God forbid anyone should get
>>the idea we're not Real Men.

>I don't think you need to identify an aversion to such
>products with latent misogyny.  There are other reasons to
>be suspicious of them.

Granted, but I think some of the stigma attending use of
cosmetics by men does in fact derive, ultimately, from
misogyny.  Remember when Corn Huskers (a not very good
moisturizer and lousy sex lubricant) was getting big TV
promos?  They always went out of their way to show rugged
types, doing heavy outdoor work, and talking with that
rather broad accent typical of the mountain West.  Just
plain old whatever would not have been "masculine" enough to
appeal to the then newly developing market for
male-identified cosmetic products.

I'm not trying to strike a holier-than-anyone pose, but I
mention this because I can remember (before quite a few of
our folks here were born, probably) when I felt considerable
disdain for things I identified as sissified.  This derived
in part, I suppose, from the getting the shit kicked out of
me almost every day as a kid by the old man if I would
refuse to fight the local neighborhood monsters.  It took me
some little time -- into my 20s -- to be able shed the
prejudices of there being something not quite manly about
men who used makeup.  But those prejudices remain not at all
uncommon, not only among straight men, but among gay men as
well.

>>Whatever happened to different strokes for different folks?
>>Maybe it's time for Lipstick Liberation for Boys.

>Guess what: it's already happened.  But it's not called
>"lipstick", it's called "moisturizing emollient color
>enhancing rod" and you can buy it at the men's cosmetics
>counter at Macy's.  This is another reason I find this stuff
>so annoying, speaking of latent misogyny.  If men want to
>use makeup, why do they purchase euphemisms?

Euphemisms have their uses, soothing painful swelling and
itching.  

In winter, I'm an ardent Chapstick user, so maybe it will
soon be available in subtle colors.  If they'd just add some
gloss, I wouldn't have to lick my lips so often, and they
wouldn't get chapped.  And of course, I'll be more glamorous.

I loved Rod's answer to this, too.

<> Do nothing, and leave nothing undone. -- Lao Tzu
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
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