HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wales 6 Australia 23
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:19:36 GMT
Reply-To: Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Computational Linguistics Unit, Univ of Wales College of Cardiff
Posting-Software: GNUS: NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs

Well, wasn't too far off in my winning guesstimate (12pts).

Wales were totally drowned in the rains here on Saturday and never
threatened actually scoring never mind winning. Desperately lacking
ideas when in possession and an abundance of mistakes that you just
can't make at this level (Stephens dropping a perfect drop opportunity
in front of the posts, Jones unbelievably throwing away a blind pass
after a sizzling dummy & break from scrum when lots of support inside,
flat running by the backs, Evans receiving some absolute hospital
passes on the wing, and the Welsh forwards conviction that they could
smash through the Aussies by straight running (Reynolds, Gibbs, etc).
Given a tap penalty near the end they did nothing clever, not even
punt it upfield. The score line really is being kind to them.

Aussie defence was solid as always, Willie O putting in an amazing
tackle on Rayer who was scuttling around productively, only to be
stopped dead and hurled back and flattened in the tackle. The gasps
from the crowd were only slightly less than the gasps from Rayer.
Little played a blinder in defence covering everywhere and producing
the chip which Campo collected to scuttle upfield for his 52nd
international try. Apart from this he had a quiet game, funny moment
when he suddenly found himself with the ball over on the right and was
quickly sheperded into touch by three red jerseys. 

This was a comprehensive defeat of Wales; if Roebuck could have seen
out of his black eye to at least kick amateurishly then it would have
been much bigger. On this evidence Welsh rugby is still a long way from
"Renaissance".
--
** Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>      ** TEL: +44-222-874000-x5310 **
** Computational Linguistics Unit (CLU)   ** FAX: +44-222-874293       **
** University of Wales College of Cardiff ** JAN: <calum@uk.ac.cf.clu> **
** ----- "People with (a) CLU use Suns; CLUless people use Macs" ----- **
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Subject: Best ever world champs ??!! (snigger)
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:15:22 GMT

Oh no, this has gone too far.  I don't usually reply to these "yes it is, no it
isn't" shouting matches, but now it's my turn to try some.

Several people have been saying that the Oz '91 world champs were the best team
ever, most convincing champs ever, god knows what all.... with a few mentions
for other teams nobody has ever heard of.

Just plain crazy !  How short can memories be ?!

Surely the best (i.e. most convincing) world champs ever were the '87 AB's.
Yes yes, I know there've only been two held so far, but I venture to predict
that how ever long the competetion lasts, there'll never be more convincing
winners !

Aside from personal opinion, this is born out by a perusal of the objective, cold
hard facts of the scoresheets. In '87 NZ won all it's games by (I forget exactly,
but about) 30-odd points !  Did '91 Oz approach this ?    Don't make me laugh !
A 1-point win over Ireland (!), and not-too-comfortable margins over NZ and
England (though admittedly these were convincing wins on the ground). 
*And* I think there was also a mere 6-point win over Samoa in the pools.

Now look at their respective records after the tournaments. The '87 AB's went
on tour to Ireland and Wales and *absolutely slaughtered* all the opposition.
No game was even close! Even the game in howling next-to-impossible-to-score
conditions at LLanelli they won by a convincing margin. They smashed Oz in
3 of the next 4 Bledisloe games. For two, (was it three?), years, they didn't
have a single defeat. Only once did a team come close (Oz, a draw, when Foxy
had a nightmare kicker).

Have the '91 Wallabies approached this record ?  Do me a favour !! <snigger>

Losses, marginal wins, barely-survived series, all along the way !!!
Naturally, they have scored some fine, convincing wins as well.  But.....

The best ever team ?!   PULL THE OTHER ONE !!!

Sometimes I wonder if we've all been watching the same sport !
Best ever; <snort>.


Pause; calmly reflect; let slow your palpitating hearts, let cool your hot
blood, bursting adrenal glands, and itchy keyboard fingers;  and, *best of all*,
LOOK AT THE SCORESHEETS !

The most convincing world-cup winners and followers-up (definitely), and the
best team of post-war times (probably), certainly the best I've ever seen, was
the 87-89 AB's.  
                LET'S HEAR IT FOR THOSE MIGHTY MEN IN BLACK !
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Bill Taylor              wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              There's no future in living in the past.    (sniff, sob)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: G.R.Price@cm.cf.ac.uk (G Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Australian team
Date: 19 Nov 92 10:59:43 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

The Australian team for Saturdays test was announced yesterday:

Roebuck
Campese
Little
Horan
Carozza
Kahl
Slattery

Crowley
Kearns
McKensie
McCall
Eales
Ofahengaue
Gavin
Wilson

Eales is at best only 50-50 to start, if he fails a fitness test then Coker
will step in.
Kahl is the surprise choice, with Slattery not looking, IMO, in great form he
will be under a lot of pressure. Interviewed on Welsh TV he said "I am no
Michael Lynagh, far from it", he seems to see himself as just a link to Little
and Horan. Personally I cannot believe there is not a better stand off in
Australia.
From: garks@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: What are worthy 'World Champions'?
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:54:51 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

>>>>I think that it was obvious to any intelligent observer that the
>>>>two sides are incredibly evenly matched.
>>
>>>All I was disputing was an early posting which claimed that Oz was
>>>far and away the best in the world. From the statistics (winning a
>>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>I saw the first two games, and it would have been fairly unjust if NZ
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>had won either of them. My reading of what was on the net was that

> I would say, however, that Oz had better watch out or they would get
> themselves into the same trap we did after NZ won the World Cup by
> relying on the "Old Guard" to try to bring it home again.  We tried
> and failed.


Excuse the heavy editing but I think this tour of the Aussies to the 'home
countries' raises the interesting point of what constitutes a world champion.

Now before I get started I want to say that 'yes, Im from NZ' and especially,
'no I'm not whingeing about losing', after all there are people far more
qualified in the latter than me.

Anyway,
Is a 'World Champion' the winner of a tournament that is held every 4 years, or
is a 'World Champion' one that is consistently a winner in all countries that
it tours.  Now I stress the latter simply because any team at home will more
than likely beat the visitor.  History, both past and recent bares testimony to
that fact.
If we consider the first definition: Australia is justified in claiming the
title.  The best team for the tournement, and especially it should be noted,
away from home.  And yet, to be honest, things are not going well for them at
the moment.
If we consider the second:  Wales, in all honesty, are the epitome of the fact
that they will never be 'World Champions' simply because they; a) never tour the
Southern Hemisphere, and b) are not very successful tourists when they do (on
the field, off the field they are perfect).  The successful wins by the club
sides bare testimony in the fact that the clubs are far and away more
intimidating than the national side.  The best teams in the world "at home".

Anyway those are my thoughts, I'm personally blase about both options, but I'm
quite interested in 'what is a World Champion', a little like the U.S. and
their 'World Champ' baseball series really.

By the way, I watched the test match b/w the English and the SAs.  Very boring. 
Campese criticises Carling,  Botha does not add anything to SA back play at
all.  Where was the marvellous back running that we saw in SA when NZ and AUS
toured? completely stifled.  How could he with guys out side him that are 6'3"
and 18 stone and can run like a very fast thing?
I'm sick of egotistical boot-maniacs.  There that feels better.

With all that off my chest, it's only hair that remains.

Alistair
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Monmouthshire?
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:30:39 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

I've just learned that Australia are playing Monmouthshire on Tuesday.
I had assumed it was Cardiff's turn for a bash at them.

Who or what is Monmouthshire? Unlike the English, we don't have a
serious county system as far as I know. My best guess is that this is
a silly name for a combined Newport/Pontypool team. Anyone know any
better? 

Cheers,

Chris Price
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3BZ, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cw2w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Cecil Way)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: 5 Nations Schedule
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:19:41 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Does anyone know the date that Wales will be playing at Cardiff in
1994's 5 nations?  My club here is planning a second tour there and we
need to see this match.  Please respond to this account and we shall be
eternally grateful, we might even buy you a beer.

Cheers, 

Cecil
From: grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Engl. vs SA
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:35:29 GMT
Organization: HP, Berkshire, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Clive Boock (clive@otago.ac.nz) wrote:
>   England didn't really score from enterprising play  but capitalised on the
>mistakes of their opponents.  

I forgot one of the tries.  Morris's own try came from a SA scrum 2m out
from their own line.  England gave a snap shove as the ball went in and 
Hills' hooked cleanly but when it got to Richter's feet his left toe poked
it out the side, with no control.  Wright was trying to gather it from his
ankles, behind his line and Morris drops on the ball for the try.  A bit
of a clanger on the SA front there.  The No.8 surely whould have been getting 
it over to his right foot and it wasn't heeled particularly quickly.  That
was a softie and exactly what happened to Morris in a club match between 
Bath and Orrell, this time Hill snapped up a ball that squirted out between
Morris' legs and dropped over the line for the try.  There must have been
some satisfaction for Englands Ex-scrum-half.

>
>Clive H. Boock, University of Otago, New Zealand.

--
Graham Cutting
grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN, England
From: davep@uk.sun.com (Dave Powell - Sun UK - Tech Support)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Welsh Club results
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:50:29 GMT
Reply-To: davep@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd.


As I was recently asked to post these (by Laurence Hardley in Australia) here are 
some of the Welsh club results from last weekend:

South Wales Police 12  Swansea 24
Maesteg 7 Aberavon 17
Newbridge 12 Cardiff 24
Pontypridd 20 Pontypool 24

Neil Jenkins failed a late fitness test for the Pontypridd v Pontypool game, and has
missed out on selection for Wales (though after Stephens' performance against
Australia on Saturday he might have done anyway).

The top of the 1st Division now looks like:

	  Played   Points
Swansea     10       20
Cardiff     10       18
Llanelli     9       16
Neath        9       14


I thought Australia were playing Cardiff on Wednesday - but thanks to Chris Price for
jogging my memory! It is Monmouthshire they are playing - whoever they are. As Chris
suggests it is probably Newport/Pontypool but since I thought the games against
tourists were awarded on the basis of the last few seasons performances by a side
I do not know how they have got a game since I don't know who they have played in the 
last few years. My guess is that it must be historical!

Dave Powell


Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: News from the IRB meeting
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:57:38 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Some news from the IRB meeting in England over the weekend.

International rugby's administrators said over the weekend that they would
press ahead with plans to hold the 1995 World Cup in South Africa. Despite the
republic's uncertain political future, the International Rugby Board chairman,
Sir Ewart Bell, said there has been no change in the board's position. "The
board took a decision in April that the next World Cup would take place in 1995
in South Africa."

Nine  teams, including New Zealand and Western Samoa, will have automatic entry
into the 1995 World Rugby Cup, organisers said. The eight quarter finalists
from last year's tournament as well as hosts South Africa would be seeded. The
rest of the 54 nations eligible to enter the cup would have to compete in
qualifying tournaments for the seven remaining places. Three of those places
would go to Europe, two to Asia-Pacific, and one each to the Americas and
Africa. The decision means joy for countries like Western Samoa and Canada, and
relief for France and Ireland, the two other beaten quarter finalists last
year.

Rugby's experimental new laws look likely to remain fundamentally unchanged,
after they were endorsed by the International Rugby Board. The board said in a
statement that the council members unanimously felt the laws were achieving
their desired objectives. "More initiatives qare available to players, the ball
is visible and in play for longer periods and a number of irritating stoppages
have been eliminated," it said.

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: amanning@acd.acd.ucar.edu (Andrew Manning)
Subject: Re: Are Australia worthy World Champions
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:14:11 GMT

In article <CJP.92Nov16084349@aberda.aber.ac.uk> cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price) writes:
>and the Aussies were too polite to crow.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A great example of an oxymoron, if ever I heard one!



Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: ram@artecon.sceard.com (Ramesh S. Rao)
Subject: *Any newsgroup for TableTennis?*
Organization: Artecon, Inc. - Carlsbad, CA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:05:12 GMT



Is there a group for TableTennis (PingPong)?
I scanned all the rec.sport.* but couldn't find it.
I know this group is for tennis. No flames please.
From: Gess Shankar <gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: ATP - Frankfurt
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:39:19 EST
Organization: Knowledge Exchange, GA, US of A

$2.5 MILLION ATP CHAMPIONSHIP
AT FRANKFURT, GERMANY
TUESDAY'S RESULTS  
ROSEWALL GROUP
--------------
Stefan Edberg d. Petr Korda, 6-3,7-6 (11-9)
Pete Sampras d. Boris Becker, 7-6 (7-5), 7-6 (7-3)

LAVER GROUP
-----------
Goran Ivanisevic d. Michael Chang, 7-6 (7-4), 6-2

Sampras/Becker match must have been a thrilling one. Pete just 
scraping through in the tie-breaks. Becker was down 4 set points
in the first tie-break and saved 3 of them. But Sampras closed
out the set with an ace. In the next set, Boris had a set-point
but Pete managed to save that and went to the tie-break and win the
match.

--
 GeSS                  |<><>|              /===/==//==/===/             |<><>|
|<><>|                 |<><>|             /---/--//--/---/              |<><>|
gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM |<><>|            /===/==//==/===/               |<><>|
From: gcl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GEORGE C. LIN)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: VS Phillies results...
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:37:49 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


Graf d. Chunk Brat (TM) 6-3 3-6 6-1

Graf still didn't use any top-spin backhand in this match.  Sanchez-Vicario
was "bunting-up" and "semi-lobbing" a lot of Graf's shots and it looked like
it frustrated Graf a lot.  She used this tactic to defeat her in the past,
letting Graf make the errors.  It worked on the second set where Graf lost
her accuracy a little and the situation reversed in the third set where
Graf's forehand was landing in and Vicario's shot was either into the net
or floated wide.

I think top players can get a set from Graf sometimes because of her weak
backhand.  Graf's going to have trouble with Seles if they meet next week...
From: arijeet@lorelei.ece.drexel.edu (Arijit Das)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Virginia slims of Philadelphia
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:03:24 GMT
Organization: Drexel University, Philadelphia PA

Just an aside about the tournament, a Spanish friend of mine
went to see an early round match between A. Sanchez and A. Coetzer,
after the match he went down and spoke to Ms. Sanchez. She was very nice
and she ended up giving him 10 complimentary passes to the whole
tournament, she also expected them to cheer for her (which I think
is reasonable). So fan support does matter, and Ms. Sanchez is not 
a brat after all. We had another instance of her visiting an Indian
resturant and presenting somebody with a racquet. 
:-) Now if only Sabatini and Graf would have gone dancing with me at the 
local clubs :-) .
---
arijit
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: csmith@cc.gatech.edu (Christopher Smith)
Subject: More News, Nov 15
Organization: Software Research Center, Georgia Tech
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:54:14 GMT


Press `n' to skip results:



Philadelphia Final:

  Graf(1) d. Sanchez Vicario(3)  6-3 3-6 6-1

  Graf's 4th consecutive tournament victory.


ECC Final Match Statistics (Courtesy of Prime Network):

  Krajicek(6) d. Woodforde   6-2 6-2
  Length of match: 84 min

                    Krajicek   Woodforde
                    --------   ---------
  1st Serve %          46%        61%
  Aces                 12          3
  Double Faults         1          4
  Winners              26         29
  Unf. Errors           7         15
  Brk Pts Conv        4/10        0/8

  Krajicek advances to the ATP Championships at the expense of
  Ferreira.


..Chris

-- 
Christopher Smith                          csmith@cc.gatech.edu
College of Computing (Room 269)                                  
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332-0280        404/853-0937
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: ATP Championship Final Result: (Spoiler)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:14:07 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <wggNuB1w165w@knex.Gwinnett.COM> Gess Shankar <gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM> writes:
>
>$2.5 MILLION ATP CHAMPIONSHIP
>AT FRANKFURT, GERMANY
>SUNDAY'S RESULT  
>FINALS
>------
>Boris Becker (7) d. Jim Courier (1), 6-4,6-3,7-5
> 


Great news Gess!!!

What's BOOM BOOM's rank after this win?

Is Courier's #1 position in danger?

                                           Thanks,

                                                  From a diehard Becker fan. 

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Space the final frontier" - Star Trek.
"Try to see it my way, only time will tell if I am right or I am wrong"
                                                         - The Beatles
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Virginia Slims Spoiler
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 23:31:08 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@analog.eng.umd.edu


In article <98843@netnews.upenn.edu>, cappiell@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Steven Cappiello) writes:
>Sorry, but IMCO (In My Correct Opinion), you are mistaken Charles.

   Is that a TM (trademark)?

>The problem with a lack of dominance in the men's game is that there are in 
>fact about 100 Monica's.  Men's tennis is so much more competitive.  The women
>would be as competitive if natural selection hadn't created such freaks of 
>nature as Martina and Monica.  They possess physical skills which other women
>cannot attain no matter how hard and long they train.  Jenny Capriati is alsoo
>one of these "freaks" of which I speak.  I saw her play when she was eleven
>years old--she was just as big as the men and was hitting the ball twice 
>as hard.  Sorry, no matter how much Aranxta (to cite a typical example of 
>an overworked, average female player) trains.. she will never be anywhere
>near close to the level of a Monica or a Steffi.

    Well, it could be 100 Monicas or 100 Arantxas or 100 Martinas.

    The depth you speak of has a lot to do with the power men generate.
At any day, someone could have a great serves, and boom them in all
day long.   I agree that there isn't the kind of dominance in the men's
game as the women's game.   That's what I meant by men's tennis not
having someone like a Monica or a Steffi.

    It's all a matter of perspective really.   Either, men's tennis
is like women's tennis without the top six women, or men's tennis is
like the top six women.   I tend to opt for the first.   The men's
game is still pretty much built on error.   I hardly ever see someone
who can consistently return big serves, and pass with regular freqeuncy,
and essentially make no errors.  Monica seems to do this a lot.  To
win points against Monica, you really need to press your game to go
for bigger shots.   In the men's game, I don't see as many players
who try to go for hard shot after hard shot, and make them.   I am
told that Courier used to be like this, but he missed a lot as well.
Only when he kept more steady and set himself up did he become
a better player.  Monica doesn't seem to need to do this.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis