HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Need Help With Disk Rebuild Problem.
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 22:01:48 GMT


In article <1992Jul30.004447.1273@iitmax.iit.edu>, draughn@iitmax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn) writes:
|>I'm having a system performance problem that I hope someone can help
|>me with.
|>
|>We're running VMS 5.4-2.
|>
|>We have about 9000 users on our VAX cluster.  All of the user
|>directories are on one volume set containing about 200000 files using
|>2.5 GB, which is served to the cluster.
|>
|>THE PROBLEM:  After a crash, when the volume set is mounted, the
|>automatic rebuild takes about an hour.  This is a major pain.
|>
|>I've got things set up so that this volume is only rebuilt if the
|>server crashes.  If one of the satellites crashs, we live with the
|>corruption.  This is still a problem because a server crash will hang
|>all user file activity for an hour during the rebuild.  Even a simple
|>shutdown-and-reboot cycle on the server can take an hour if any of the
|>systems in the cluster has crashed since the last reboot.

If your crashes aren't very frequent, why not skip the rebuild until
a slack period like midnight?

	$ MOUNT/NOREBUILD ...

Then a batch job can do:

	$ SET VOLUME/REBUILD ...

--
Reece R. Pollack
Senior Software Engineer
The Wollongong Group, Inc.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: Using STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:11:27 GMT

dsroberts@beckman.com writes:
> does anyone know how to get the startup$startup_layered database to be
> multi-stream?  By multi_stream I mean getting some procedures to execute
> simultaneously (we have smp systems, so single stream, by our thinking, would
> not be as quick).
> 
> In any case, perhaps some of you would like to share how your startup is
> configured so perhaps I can glean some improvements that would apply to us.
> 
At a site I used to manage we set things up using the SYSMAN startup 
database.  Things can be done in parallel by setting procedures to be
SPAWNED for execution or for submission to batch.

We had probably 20-30 procedures or more in the database and it seemed
to work fairly well.  We did our own homegrown procedure for speeding
up the mounting of disks in a parallel fashion.  Some of the disks were
mounted as a result of SYPAGSWP*.com being invoked and the rest came 
later in the process.

--
Bob Boyd                 
rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov 
Unisys/EPA
From: spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: VCS problems
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:29:32 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato Computer Centre


Gidday, we're running the Vaxcluster Console System (tell me we're not the
only ones) and we have two problems:

	1.  We get a blank like in the VCS Events Box, which is a HIGH
		priority event - but it has no text whatsoever, and has
		no system name prefix.  I.e.
	------------------------------------------------------------
	   HSC50 28-JUL-1992 09:25:23   ERROR-I, End of Error

	   HSC50 28-JUL-1992 09:25:50   ERROR-I, End of Error
	------------------------------------------------------------
	   The VCS Events Icon shows the window as having 3 messages,
	   2 low priority and 1 high.  The Blank line is being flagged
	   as a high priority event - it's nothing!  I can clear the
	   blank line, and the high priority entry goes away

	2.  On the "Customize General" window of the VCS C3 display, I
		can set the minimum priority for bell - only problem,. VCS
		pays no attention, putting a bell with EVERY event, low,
		medium or high - regardless of what I've customised.  (I've
		now turned the bell off)

	3.  This is the real kicker.  I'll start up a REVIEW Node session,
		which pops up a window.  Suddenly, all my terminal windows
		(The VCS and ones under the session manager [all of which
		are running under the terminal manager under the session
		manager]) die.  I've whacked up the process quotas and it
		DOESN'T work, however, if I run/detach a NEW terminal manager
		with massive quotas, I can get it to work.

		So,  How do I get a Terminal manager that will be able to
		handle the crap that vcs hands it.  (I'm on a standalone
		Vaxstation 3100, 8Meg Memory - and I do have a paging file
		of course)

						- SImon
	

   ______________________________________________________________________
 The Sturgeon General has  determined that reading signatures can cause gross
 deformities in  fish,  carrots,  turnips, politicians and other dumb animals
	DO NOT LOOK AT THIS SIGNATURE THROUGH A MAGNIFYING GLASS
spt@waikato.ac.nz - Simon Travaglia, Computer Services, University of Waikato
Fax: 064-7-838-4066  Ph: 064-7-838-4008  SM: Priv. Bag, Hamilton, New Zealand
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Taxes are going up so fast, the government is likely to price itself out of
 the market.
From: gavron@spades.aces.com (Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: System startup options
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: gavron@Spades.ACES.COM
Organization: ACES Consulting Inc.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Jul21.103543.939@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes...
#Has anyone tried using spawn/nowait in their startup?

Yes!

#I don't think it's a very good idea, since the spawned process could be killed
#by the spawning process completing, and I don't see how it can be that much
#less overhead than queuing such that it would make that much difference.  But 
#my boss, who fancies himself to be a crack system manager, thinks it would be
#a good approach.

Yes!

#What is the net-wisdom on this?

No!

#(btw, my boss reads news, so he'll see this :-)

I think your boss is a perspicacious individual with the temeritous
leadership skills necessary to take Beckman Industries far with his
insightful and original thinking.  In time as you grow older and as
you lose that beard, you will see your boss in a new light, and the
team of the both of you wizards working together will bring forward
new futures to successful operation and installation of software in
the next century or beyond.

I think your boss's talents need to be further respected by you, an
accomplishment that I'm sure your hubris can understand.  In time I
venture to prophesy that you will agree your boss is a genius!

p.s. got any openings at biiiivax?

#-- 
#   Don Roberts                   Internet:  don@beckman.com
#   Beckman Instruments, Inc.     Phone:     714/961-3029
#   2500 Harbor Bl. Mailstop X-12 FAX:       714/961-3351
#   Fullerton, CA  92634          Disclaimer:  Blame me, not Beckman.
#   People are as happy as they decide to be - A. Lincoln

Ehud

--
Ehud Gavron        (EG76)     
gavron@vesta.sunquest.com
God, I crack me up sometimes...
From: richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: Using STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:39:52 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

sdroppers@pbs.org writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.135138.938@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes:> cluster.  He did not use the STARTUP$STARTUP_VMS and STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
>> ...stuff removed...
>> In any case, perhaps some of you would like to share how your startup is
>> configured so perhaps I can glean some improvements that would apply to us.
>> 
>We have had very good results starting the batch queues and then sending
>jobs off in the batch queues.  We cut our reboot time from 45 minutes to about
>15 minutes this way.  We abandoned the DEC supplied startup since we could not
>specify the batch queue to start jobs in.
>
>By using batch queues we can also specify the exact order items are started.

Interestingly enough, I had the opportunity to view the startup procedures of
a large and strategically important Digital internal VAXcluster system.
I didn't bother to check if they were using the STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED data
file scheme, but they had a *lot* of startup procedures submitted to batch
queues.  Almost nothing was executed during SYSTARTUP_V5.  I counted at least
75 startup procedures of various products, etc, all launched in batch.  I
presume they did/do not use the STARTUP_LAYERED scheme.  I have noticed that
certain Digital "consultants" seem to be favoring this however.

I personally don't have enough products to even bother investigating this
bit of VMS "boot trivia", but I would favor the batch method if I did.
-- 
richard@npri6.npri.com  <Richard Head>
I've fallen and I can't reach my beer!
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt,comp.os.vms
From: outafrl@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: VAX Notes: Change moderator name/node?
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 06:20:52 GMT

A VAX Notes question:

How can the moderator's name/node be modified?

We have a conference which has been moved to another node. The original
node name has also been changed. How can we reset the moderator's name
to something which still exists?

The same situation arises with the Notes conferences distributed by DECUS
which are snapshots of DECUServe conferences. Many of the topics are not
relevant to use, but since we cannot become the moderator, we cannot remove
the irrelevant topics, while retaining the useful topics.


Further question:

If a large number of topics are deleted from a conference, can the disk
usage be consolidated and the file compressed?  Would CONVERT do this job?


Keith Wallace
Sanitarium Research Laboratories
Cooranbong  NSW  Australia
From: brodie@fps.mcw.edu
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: Using STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:01:58 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin,  Milwaukee, WI

In article <5940@npri6.npri.com>, richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head) writes:
> sdroppers@pbs.org writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Jul20.135138.938@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes:> cluster.  He did not use the STARTUP$STARTUP_VMS and STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
>>> ...stuff removed...
>>> In any case, perhaps some of you would like to share how your startup is
>>> configured so perhaps I can glean some improvements that would apply to us.
>>> 
>>We have had very good results starting the batch queues and then sending
>>jobs off in the batch queues.  We cut our reboot time from 45 minutes to about
>>15 minutes this way.  We abandoned the DEC supplied startup since we could not
>>specify the batch queue to start jobs in.
>>
>>By using batch queues we can also specify the exact order items are started.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I had the opportunity to view the startup procedures of
> a large and strategically important Digital internal VAXcluster system.
> I didn't bother to check if they were using the STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED data
> file scheme, but they had a *lot* of startup procedures submitted to batch
> queues.  Almost nothing was executed during SYSTARTUP_V5.  I counted at least

I use batch queues too.  (I have two single-threaded batch queues for this,
so I "sort of" have parallel startup...  i.e., any jobs that are
dependant on order (i.e., tcp/ip, mx, uucp, etc.) get submitted IN order
to a specific queue).

Another side benefit of this is kind of having a "minimum" startup
if I need to.  I.e., i may not necessarily want p1 set to 'MINIMUM',
but I certainly have the option of stopping the batch queue(s) right
away if I want to prevent further startup.

I haven't had the time to seriously investigate the SYSMAN startup
procedures (mostly because I don't see the NEED.  Our system
is a single large system.  If I was in a huge cluster, I'd probably
more seriously consider the SYSMAN stuff...)

I wonder what's next...  SYSTARTUP_v6?   :-)

> I personally don't have enough products to even bother investigating this
> bit of VMS "boot trivia", but I would favor the batch method if I did.

ditto.  (about the only thing I do DIRECTLY in SYSTARTUP is mount
my disks, define logical names, and then fire off all the other
batch jobs).   "works for me".

-- 
Kent C. Brodie - Sr. Systems Manager		InterNet:  brodie@fps.mcw.edu
Faculty Physicians & Surgeons			uucpNet:   fps.mcw.edu!brodie
Medical College of Wisconsin			MaBellNet: +1 414 266 5080

"Little bunny FOO-FOO, hoppin' through the forest,
   scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' 'em on the head.."  -childrens song
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: System startup options
From: leonard@telcom.arizona.edu (Aaron Leonard)
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:30:14 MST
Reply-To: Leonard@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona Telecommunications

In article <1992Jul21.103543.939@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes:

| Has anyone tried using spawn/nowait in their startup?
| 
| I don't think it's a very good idea, 

No, it's not a good idea.

| since the spawned process could be killed
| by the spawning process completing, and I don't see how it can be that much
| less overhead than queuing such that it would make that much difference. 

Exactly.

Here's a *good* idea (at any rate, it's what I've been doing for years):

$ RUN/DETACH SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE /INPUT=your-comfile.com -
  /OUTPUT=your-comfile.log

One nice thing about this approach is that it leaves fun-to-read logfiles
lying around on disk, so that you have some record if you had errors in
your startup, rather than having the stuff go to OPA0.

Batch queues are OK too, I guess, but this will work even if the queueing
system isn't up.

Best,

Aaron

Aaron Leonard (AL104), <Leonard@Arizona.EDU>
University of Arizona Network Operations, Tucson AZ 85721
|>   If it ain't broke, break it.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: System startup options
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:15:20 GMT

The system startup procedure that processes the SYSMAN database files
has a built-in check for subprocesses that waits for all of them to 
finish at the end of each phase of startup.

This makes sure that each phase is complete before proceeding to the 
next one.

--
Bob Boyd                 
rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov 
Unisys/EPA
From: sdroppers@pbs.org
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: Using STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:20:42 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Jul20.135138.938@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes:> cluster.  He did not use the STARTUP$STARTUP_VMS and STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
> ...stuff removed...
> In any case, perhaps some of you would like to share how your startup is
> configured so perhaps I can glean some improvements that would apply to us.
> 
We have had very good results starting the batch queues and then sending
jobs off in the batch queues.  We cut our reboot time from 45 minutes to about
15 minutes this way.  We abandoned the DEC supplied startup since we could not
specify the batch queue to start jobs in.

By using batch queues we can also specify the exact order items are started.

To make life a bit easier I built a couple of command procedures that allow
command procedure execution to be driven from a data file and logical name
creation from a data file.  I will post the files as a VMS_SHARE files in the
vmsnet.sources area.  These should be viewed as working examples of what we do
at our site, NOT as a real distribution of code.  If you wish you can get them
via FTP from the host cookie.pbs.org, in the area [anonymous.vms.startup]. 
Warning -- our external network link is a 9600bps SLIP link so don't expect
fast FTP response...

Seton Droppers  -- "Anything that I say is my opinion and not my employer's."
Systems Manager, E-Mail Postmaster
Public Broadcasting Service, 1320 Braddock Place Alexandria, VA 22314-1698
E-Mail:  sdroppers@pbs.org	Voice: 703-739-5089	FAX: 703-739-0775
Xref: sparky vmsnet.sysmgt:215 comp.os.vms:12713
From: rainwatr@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt,comp.os.vms
Subject: How to process accounting info?
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:06:01 EST
Reply-To: Don.Rainwater@UC.Edu
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati Center for IT Services

	I've had significant troubles with my newsfeed the past few days,
so I'm not sure if this posting got out or not.  Here it comes again...

        I've been asked to provide some information about software usage on
the VAX.  I know I can turn on image accounting, but I'd like to get some
more useful statistics.  I can probably come up with something to churn
thru either the accounting file or the accounting output, but I'd rather
not re-invent the wheel if I don't have to.

        I have some SAS example procedures from 1986, and I tried to run
them.  One of them successfully separates the various accounting records
and puts them in separate SAS data sets.  It seems like the image
information isn't quite right, though.  PROC PRINT on the image data set
only shows the field as being 4 characters wide, and the contents aren't
intelligible.

        So, does anyone have anything available to process accounting
files?  (Program, SAS, SPSS, etc.)  Thanks for any info.
--
Don Rainwater, Systems Manager, Univ. of Cincinnati Center for IT Services
Don.Rainwater@UC.Edu
From: sdroppers@pbs.org
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: Using STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:04:36 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Jul21.092043.16621@pbs.org>, sdroppers@pbs.org writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.135138.938@beckman.com>, dsroberts@beckman.com writes:> cluster.  He did not use the STARTUP$STARTUP_VMS and STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED
>> ...stuff removed...
> 
> By using batch queues we can also specify the exact order items are started.
> 
> To make life a bit easier I built a couple of command procedures that allow
> command procedure execution to be driven from a data file and logical name
> creation from a data file.  I will post the files as a VMS_SHARE files in the
> vmsnet.sources area.  These should be viewed as working examples of what we do
> at our site, NOT as a real distribution of code.  If you wish you can get them
> via FTP from the host cookie.pbs.org, in the area [anonymous.vms.startup]. 
> Warning -- our external network link is a 9600bps SLIP link so don't expect
> fast FTP response...
Well, I did not get the procedures into the newsgroup, so I will try again. 
Also, when I originally set the files up for FTP I did not include all the ones
that were important.  I have added all the important files to the FTP area now,
and will attempt to post the sources to vmsnet.sources.

These files are called from two locations.  One set of files is called as part
of SYPAGSWPFILES.COM, and the other is called from SYSTARTUP_V5.COM.  We have a
couple of experiments with using the startup database, but they don't do a
whole lot yet, most are simply callouts to the basic procedures with different
data files.
-- 
Seton Droppers  -- "Anything that I say is my opinion and not my employer's."
Systems Manager, E-Mail Postmaster
Public Broadcasting Service, 1320 Braddock Place Alexandria, VA 22314-1698
E-Mail:  sdroppers@pbs.org	Voice: 703-739-5089	FAX: 703-739-0775
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.misc
From: ian@unipalm.co.uk (Ian Phillipps)
Subject: Re: Looking for TCP/IP vendor
Followups-To: vmsnet.admin
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:02:06 GMT

tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot) writes:

>In article <1992Jul15.000318.1412@twg.com>, oldera@twg.com (Ed Alcoff -  Prod
>Mtg) writes:
>>>Since Mr. Pollack is posting an advertisement for his company's product   
>>
>>Mr. Pollack is not advertising our product(s).  

>>However, it is my personal opinion that "happy" customers of any vendor
>>also need to adhere to netiquette as well.  

I was the poster who mentioned "advertisement". I accept the prevailing
opinion that what was posted fell short of this, and am happy to
apologise for the use of what is obviously a more emotive word than I
had intended.

>>Even w/o "favors" it is not fair to the community to state
>>things without being able to back it up with facts. 

>You may not have meant it this way, but your article seems to imply that vendors
>have solicited their users to post "blurbs" about their product, and given them
>something in return. This would certainly be a breach of netiquette, but this is
>the first I've heard of such a practice. This would be a fairly serious
>accusation, as it would indict the company's ethics. 

I should like to point out that my original reply contained a clear
announcement - as did (by implication) the original one from Wollongong
- that my employers have a vested interest in selling the software that
I mentioned.  There is no question of "favours" being given in this
case, or any others that I know of.

[Followups to vmsnet.admin]

Ian
-- 
Ian Phillipps, Unipalm Ltd, 216 Science Park,		Phone +44 223 420002
Milton Road, Cambridge, CB4 4WA, England.		Phax  +44 223 426868
	The road to hell is paved with melting snowballs - Larry Wall
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.protocols.nfs,comp.protocols.ibm,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: adams@kodak.kodak.com (Robert E. Adams)
Subject: Transferring Multiple files using FTP
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:55:37 GMT


I need some help resolving an FTP problem with PC/NFS
Version 3.5. I log into a VMS machine using PC/NFS FTP
from an IBM PC. The VMS machine is running Wollogong's
FTP software Version 5.1. I am trying to download multiple
files from the VMS machine over Ethernet to my PC using
"MGET". When I issue the "ftp mget *.*" command from the
appropriate directory on the VMS machine, I get the
following error message:

	ftp: can't open local file : no such file or directory

I believe what is happening is that ftp is trying to
expand the complete VMS file name literally including the
semi-colon and the VMS file version number. When it trys 
to convert it to a DOS file name, it chokes with the above
error message. Can anyone help me get around this problem.
Single file transfers using the following command work fine:

	ftp> get vmsfilename dosfilename

There are approximately 82 files I need to transfer on a weekly 
basis. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.

Bob Adams

Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.misc