HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: "Otoko kotoba" and "On-na kotoba" (Male language and female language)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:08:40 GMT

In article <Bxu72q.4MI@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>
>  One interesting characteristic of the Japanese language is that it 
>is traditionally devided into two sets of languages - otoko kotoba (male
>language) and on-na kotoba (female language). This is not something like a
>gender of noun or pronoun but the language that a person of each sex is
>supposed to use. In other words, this is a kind of political correctness
>required to the speaker depending on his/her sex.

I think Korean also has a great deal of this. Does anyone know of any other 
languages that have this degree of separation of word use between sexes.

>  Although there are many words that sound natural whether they are from 
>men's mouth or women's mouth, there are definitely some expressions that
>are supposed to be used only by either men or women.
>
>  For example, there are several Japanese words corresponding to the English
>pronoun "I", among which "ore" would be categorized as otoko kotoba.
>A woman who calls herself as "ore" would be regarded very unsophisticated
>or unacceptably mannish.

A few years ago, I believe "boku" fell into the same category. However, while
not the norm by any means, it is not unheard-of for some women to use the
term, now.

>  On the other hand, "...dawa" at the end of a sentence is on-na kotoba.
>"Maa, ano hana wa kirei dawa (Oh, that flower is beautiful)" sounds very
>feminine.

Another aspect is, according to the people I met from outside Tokyo who were
living there, the speech of men in Tokyo is more "feminine" than men's speech
in other regions. From what little I saw of the outlying regions, this seems
to be the case. Note: most of the girls seemed to prefer the 'feminine' speech
of the Tokyo guys. 

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: Some Stupid Questions for Japanes.
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:08:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.205040.19478@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>We should take Mr. Kim's comments as indicative of most Koreans-cu.

What Dwight Joe cares about whether Mr Kim's or anyone else's is this
or that?  And this ridiculous Dwight-Joe-trade-marked cu stuff which
Dwight Joe adores so much keeps reminding me of certain part of animal
(specie) anatomy and I don't know why, do you hear me James Choi?
From: cb522@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cathy Atwood)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: gender language
Date: 20 Nov 1992 23:26:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


_Womansword, what Japanese words say about women_ is a 1987 book
by Kittredge Cherry. (Kodansha)  Those of you discussing the
words used by men or by women might be interested in this 
adjacent aspect of the Japanese language.

Cathy
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:02:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Nov16.230239.23457
Organization: The Ohio State University

driscollsh1@woods.ulowell.edu asks:

>      Could someone please tell me the name of the main island of Japan?

That's Maine.  It's not in Japan, it's a state not far from Lowell.  It
is not an island.

-Jon

Oh BTW "Honshu"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: Does anyone have news on Judo?
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:04:27 GMT

In article <hit.722232828@sol> hit@sol.acs.unt.edu (Hisaharu Tanabe) writes:
>I really felt sorry with those who were expected to win the gold but got
>the silver especially the one you are talking about...Ryoko Tamura or
>whatever her name was.  The Japanese media does too much for everything...

Talk about pressure!!
I didn't realize the hype of pressure the US media put on their athletes
till this summer (so that's why they call them "press").
Summer Sanders a good example -- and should I regard that 200m-women's-
track-sore-loser as a victim of such pressure?
Also that notorious Barkley who was bashed all over, and later made
to fight with Godzilla...

Them US athletes -- they sure are tough!! :-)

-YH
From: mvcy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Gaikokujin
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:43:01 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Nov22.030518.16139@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes: 
> 
> Then, those Koreans should get Japanese citizenship right away; my Taiwanese
> co-worker got Japanese citizenship.  Then, they should sue to obtain
> compensation for discrimination on the basis of ethnic backgroud.
> 
>  [some stuff deleted]
> 
> If the Koreans in Japan don't want Japanese citizenship via the same laws
> under which all other foreigners are subjected and don't like living
> in Japan, then they can move to Korea.
> 

I was under the impression that Korean people who had been naturalized 
CITIZENS for 3 generations are still being finger printed (outrage!).  Am I
mistaken in this?  Did the Japanese government improve on this situation?
I also think that to many Japanese, there is no such thing as a naturalized
immigrant.  To them, if you (or your ancestors in the past couple of hundred
years) were not born in Japan, then you are not Japanese.  Pretty sad state
of affairs.  I can't imagine it will ever change though.  Japan is a pretty
parochial place.

Satoshi Amagai
From: timd@ed.ac.uk (Tim Duncan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Ricki Insano (was Re: It seems to me)
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:13:23 GMT
Reply-To: T.Duncan@ed.ac.uk
Organization: AI Applications Institute, University of Edinburgh

In article <17529@mindlink.bc.ca>, a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto) writes:
|> It seems that the holy war in soc.cult.jp re: Asano Vs. Everyone else
|> has taken a new twist. (But why is it that when Mr. Asano gets upset, his
|> English skills falter?)
|> 
|> HYPOTHESIS MODE ON:
|> "Perhaps when a person is anxious or excited, his language skill regress to a
|> time when the mother tongue is strongly impressed upon him that he thinks
|> only in that language, and newly acquired languages are forgotten."
|> HYPOTHESIS MODE OFF


Another possibility is that Ricki Insano is more than one person. Considering
the wild variation in style and content, and the info from Mark Crispin that
the owner of the account had dropped out of college, I think it highly likely
that Asano is in fact just a bunch of (rather childish) undergrads who get
their kicks out of annoying people.  Ignore them.


	-- Tim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Plutonium
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:17:25 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW


When I was in Japan a few months ago I watched a documentary on
television there that showed that many Japanese are against the
Plutonian shipment.  In fact, even according to the Japanese
government, there is no economic justification for using
Plutonian rather than Uranium in their reactors.  Finally, every
Japanese scientist I spoke with is against the shipment.

It seems to me like an absolutely crazy thing to do, as did every
Japanese scientist I spoke with while there.  The possible
consequences of the material falling some day into the wrong hands
are so catastrophic (destruction of Tokyo, Washington, New York,
Paris, London ?...)  are just too horrific to imagine.  
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
From: jp@wuntvor.pillar.com (J.P.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Gifts from visiting US student
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 08:55:02 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: The Eternal Apprentice BBS, Norman, OK

David O Hunt <bluelobster+@CMU.EDU> writes:
> There's a very good chance I'll be going to Japan for two months next summer
> Although I read the former thread, could someone please give me some ideas o
> gifts to give to people?

       I may also be in Japan next summer.  I would like to know who it would
be appropriate, or polite, to give gifts to.  Thanks for the help.

       -JP 

--
jp@wuntvor.pillar.com (J.P.)
The Eternal Apprentice BBS, Norman, OK -- +1 405 447 3772
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Gaijin
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:16:19 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <SMITTIE.92Nov18115018@tui.csulb.edu>, smittie@csulb.edu
(Smittie) writes:

<explanation of fingerprinting and Smitties opinion deleted>

=> Mr. Fester and Mr. Harkcom will probably have something to say about this since
=> we've had this discussion before and will all ended up on different sides of
=> the fence then.

With three people, how do you all end up on different sides of the fence.
Knowing all three, I suspect that you all may have ended up on the same
side of different fences.

Myself? I suppose yet another fence. By itself, the act of fingerprinting is
not such a bad or degrading thing, but how are they used by the government?
As the government doesn't require the fingerprinting of its home born
citizens, then the assumption is that those who are ordered to be
fingerprinted are somehow more of a menace, or crime prone, or threats
to national security, and so on. I don't know if there are statistics
that bear this out. Is this process and the expense, overhead, and
implicit discrimination really worth the effort? Seems like no.

- Bill Lambert

(PS - My wife and I are currently gathering "proof" of our life to
satisfy the INS for removal of conditional status of her permanent
residency. As someone who is somewhat watchful about privacy issues,
I think the whole process stinks. But... she doesn't have to be
fingerprinted a second time.)
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Kanemaru's latest stunt
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:03:58 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. - Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Alton Harkcom (harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp) wrote:
: 
:    For those following the Kanemaru incident (50 oku yen Sagawa scandal),
: the latest news:
: 
:    It was finally decided to call Kanemaru for questioning in the
: incident.  However, Kanemaru had different plans.  He entered the
: hospital for diabetes related eye surgery.  At ten days plus per eye,
: Kanemaru won't be released until after the current session of the
: Diet is over.  News Station claimed that it is obviously a move to

Is there nothing they can do to coerce him?  America has its share of
corrupt politicians, but I cannot think of an instance like this
where a guy ADMITTED to taking bribe money and got off so lightly.
I think in America he would have been subpeona(ed) a long time
ago and forced to talk (or at least stand there and listen to the
charges and take the 5th Amendment.

(for Japanese readers:  The 5th Amendment of the Consititution gives
a person the right to refuse to incriminate himself (thus forcing the
government to prove guilt instead.)

Cheers,

Chris
--
Christopher Mauritz                 | It's conventional in the extreme. I
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | guess I've seen too much, because I
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | don't actually find her provacative
                                    | either.   -Bowie on Madonna-
From: kreckman@cbmvax.commodore.com (Steve Kreckman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: HOKKAIDO'S ONLY AIRLINE IS USUALLY JUST WINGING IT
Keywords: don't belive it
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:12:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbmvax.37095
Reply-To: kreckman@cbmvax.commodore.com (Steve Kreckman)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

It seems that Henry Robertson (robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu) is getting his kicks
by making up stories or altering true ones as he sees fit. I read this group
for hard information and opinions *not* fiction. It looks like I'll have to
add another entry to my kill file...
 


-- 
| Steve Kreckman                 |  kreckman@cbmvax.commodore.com           | 
|                                |  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!kreckman | 
| "I'll sleep when I'm dead"     |  Tel: 215-431-9108                       |
|   - Warren Zevon               |  Fax: 215-431-2805                       |
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Hayari Kotoba (Fad Expressions)
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:57:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov17.005754.12193
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

The following is a sample of faddish expressions used by Japanese 
teenagers. I picked them up from a recent issue of Asahi-shimbun.

1. kabu-ku:  - to look flashy
             - From kabuki. Kabuki actors wear colorful costumes.
             - eg. Aitu kabutte iyagaru.

2. sarrute-iru:  - to grow the side burns long
                 - From saru (monkey) -> looks like monkey
                 - alternative from: monkitte-iru
                 - eg. 90210 no haiyuu chotto sarruteru nee.

3. sukatan:  - to wear skirts shorter than allowed by school regulation
             - suka (sukaato = skirt), tan ("on" reading of char. mijikai)
             - eg. Chotto ano ko sukatan to chau?

4. eneti: - grotesque, hideous
          - From the English words "Not Human" -> N.H. -> enu-eiti -> eneti

5. anbiri: - unbelievable, incredible
           - From the English word unbelievable -> unbeli -> anbiri
           - eg. Mattaku anbiri!

6. panpii: - ordinary person, average person
           - From "ippan people" (ippan=ordinary) -> ipPAN PEople -> PANPE 
             -> panpii

7. Washington: - restroom
               - From W.C. (abbrev. usually used to mean restroom in Japan)
                 -> "expanded" to "Washington Club" -> Washington
               *** Anyone know what W.C. actually stands for?

8. dubbing (rokuon): - go to restroom
                     - From o-toire (o + toilet) -> oto-ire -> oto (sound) +
                       ire (put in) -> recording -> dubbing
                     - eg. Chotto dubbing shitekuru.

9. hama: - restroom
         - From o-shikko (pee) -> o-shi-ko -> o-shi-go -> 0-4-5 -> area code
           for Yokohama -> 'hama
         - eg. Chotto hama ma de itte kimasu.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Gaikokujin
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:25:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.030518.16139@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <By3509.E2B@world.std.com> cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
>writes:
>>As I understand it, the problem is not so much that resident aliens get
>>fingerprinted.  It is rather that they get fingerprinted again each year
>>and that the humiliation of this process has become a symbol of the
>
>Like I said, the rules for citizens and non-citizens are different.
>I see nothing wrong with that.

Let say, if the rule was the all non-citizens were to be rounded up
based upon their ethnicity, and this was the law, it would be ok to you?
I guess this means that Japanese who were interened during the WWII
who were not US citizen was a perfectly correct action by US government.


>The term "humiliation" is subjective.  A permanent resident in the USA
>could say, "It's damn humiliating that I can't vote."  So what?  He 
>isn't a citizen; he doesn't get the right to vote.

Recall the devices the Japanes used to forcibly get the finger-prints?
The intentions behind such was to inflict humiliation... to say
'go sit in the back of the bus'.
 
>However, I don't see the relevance of "such and such happened to my ancestors,
>so...".  Koreans demand that because of this historial tidbit, they
>should then be entitled to all the rights of citizenship even though
>they don't obtain it.

I suppose many Japanese who were not US citizen during the WWII was
that way because they did not want to become US citizen... Djoe
how were the naturalization law for asians back then in US?
So, whoes dault was it?

>If the Koreans in Japan don't want Japanese citizenship via the same laws
>under which all other foreigners are subjected and don't like living
>in Japan, then they can move to Korea.  It is much easier for a Korean
>from anywhere (Korean-American, Korean-German, Korean-Japanese, etc.)
>to emigrate to Korea than for a non-Korean (Chinese-American, German,
>Taiwanese, Irish-American, etc).

I wonder what Ghandi said about the unjust rules?  

It is not the equalness under the law I am argueing about.  But,
the right/wrongness of the rule itself.  I suppose you will be
blindly willing to abide by all the rules that America is willing to
make into law.
From: david@kocb.astem.or.jp (David Fraser)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Train from Osaka to Tokyo
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:36:08 GMT
	<OI.92Nov20010023@tono0.cs.meiji.ac.jp>
Organization: KUBOTA Corp., ASTEM RI, Kyoto, Japan
In-reply-to: oi@cs.meiji.ac.jp's message of 19 Nov 92 16:00:22 GMT

In article <OI.92Nov20010023@tono0.cs.meiji.ac.jp> oi@cs.meiji.ac.jp (Hitoshi Oi) writes:

   >>	     If you don't need to see Osaka at all, how about flying
   >>	     from Osaka to Haneda ?  From what I saw in a book called "Gekiyasu
   >>	     Koku-ken no kaikata tsukaikata", if you buy a Japan domestic flgiht
   >>	     conjunction with international flight, it will become much cheaper.
   >>
   >>	     I don't know what time you reach at Osaka airport.  But if it's
   >>	     in the evening, the bus goes to the downtown of Osaka takes
   >>	     a lot of time...

A lot of international flights arrive in Osaka around 8:00 pm which
give you just enough time to clear customs and catch the last bus into
the city around 9:00 pm.  At that time of night there isn't much
traffic and it takes no more than half an hour to get to Umeda next to
Osaka station.   

I think that there are buses going straight to Shin-Osaka station from
the airport.  However if you arrive on an evening flight I doubt that
you can make it to the station on time.  The last Shinkansen from
Shin-Osaka to Tokyo leaves Shin-Osaka at 9:18 pm and arrives in Tokyo
at 11:48 pm.  There are also over-night trains and buses.

David
From: sakai@csa.bu.edu (Tsutomu Sakai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Who started all this gaijin myth?! (was Re: Genitals in Japan)
Date: 23 Nov 92 07:40:39 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <MS-C.722493658.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>Sakimura-san -
>
>     Do you know the word ``Jap'' or the word ``Nip''?  Both words are
>contractions meaning ``Japanese person''.  However, both words are ``warui
>kotoba'' in English.

     So, that's why many English-speaking people think that the purpose for
contracting a word is to add some offensive meanings?  You are judging
Japanese (language) on the basis of another language, aren't you?
     I failed to see your point.  You say those words are "warui kotoba" in
ENGLISH.  Fine.  Does that mean "gaijin" is "warui kotoba" in JAPANESE?
Not necessarily, even though these words are all contractions.

>     ``Japs'' and ``Nips'' are sneaky.  They are dishonest.  They are tricky.
>They are liars.  They commit ``harry-carry'' (hara-kiri) if you defeat them.
>In spite of their sneakiness and cleverness, they are rather stupid.
>
>     Pretty offensive, eh?  That is why Nikkeijin in North America hate those
>words.  But it works in another way.

     What is offensive is the "image" attached to the words.  "Sneaky",
"dishonest", "tricky" ... are offensive words in some context, I agree.  If
the speaker thinks Japanese are such and such, what is offensive is the way
he/she thinks, not the words by themselves.  The word "Japanese" could mean
the same thing, if the speaker had a stereotypical image of the Japanese
characteristics described above.

>     ``Gaijin'' are big, noisy, and stupid.  They all have AIDS.  All they
>think about is sex with rather plain-looking Japanese women.  They are lazy.
>They are dirty and smell bad.  They walk on tatami in their shoes and even lay
>their wet clothes to dry on the tatami.

     Is that your opinion, or the Japanese people's?  If it's the latter,
how did you know?  I don't think most Japanese can agree on all of the
Japanese-image of gaijin you stated above.  Some people do on some of them,
though.   But then, how come it's not OK for the Japanese to generalize the
image of "gaijin", while it's OK for you to generalize how the Japanese
people think about gaijin?  (What I mean is they are both not OK, in case
it's not clear from what I said).
    It's like someone's saying "Japanese are racist", while fighting against
racism.  The statement is itself racist, at least it seems to me.  Sorry if
this is a bad example.

>     We find that pretty offensive, which is why we hate to be called
>``gaijin''.

     What would you like to be called, then?  Choose any Japanese word you
think most appropriate for referring to non-Japanese.  I think I can
demonstrate you that the word you choose can be used as a swearword, in
some circumstances.  Does that mean the word is inherently offensive?  Not!
Or, are you saying that calling non-Japanese "non-Japanese" is offensive?
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Chinese Worms, etc (Was: From The Press...)
Keywords: news items
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:54:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov16.195422.20518
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
  >13Nov92 Wall Street Journal ...

More items from the press (13Nov92)

 - China may be on the verge of perfecting a spermacide made from earthworms.

 - One in two Japanese wives would rather be home alone than with her husband,
   according to a study.  Only 21% of husbands would rather be without their
   wives.

# Nanka kawaisou.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: PC 9801 & similar 
From: gelli@cs.unibo.it (Michele Gelli)
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:26:59 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, University of Bologna, Italy


Hello!
I'm a 24 years old student from Italy.
I'm a video game lovers too, and I want to buy computer games from Japan.
But I don't know if japanese computer are MS-DOS compatible,
even if the seem so.

There is someone that can tell me if the sistems below are compatible 
or where I can find a emulator that works with my 486 MS-DOS?

		PC 9801

		PC 9800

		X68000 

Thanks! (and excuse me for my horrible engkish!)

E-mail me at gelli@cs.unibo.it

				Michele "firewalker" Gelli
From: jfriedl+@CS.CMU.EDU (Jeffrey Friedl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: _o_
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:36:44 GMT
Reply-To: jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon / Omron Corporation

ee152fdm@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington) writes:
|>  Maiko rolls eyes... @_@

The only people that have eyes *that* big are the Japanese girls in
the comics (and of course, the eyes are brown, hair is blond, etc.).

Here's a "(-:"-like symbol I've been seeing more and more of in e-mail
from Japan:  _o_

It's used when asking someone to do something for you (or thanking them
for the same).

In case you've never seen it, I'll give you a chance to figure it out
for yourself.  Below is the description, uuencoded.

I think it's cute (not as cute as Maiko's ^_^, but then that's a different
cute alltogether! :-)
	         ..
	*jeff*   <_ 

begin 644 _o_
M:70G<R!T:&4@<WEM8F]L(&]F('-O;65O;F4@8F]W:6YG('1O=V%R9"!Y;W4L
M(&AE860@*'1H92`G;R<I"F]N('1H92!G<F]U;F0@86YD(&AA;F1S(&%T('1H
(92!S:61E+@IH
`
end
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan