From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Styling, profiling and pretending
Date: 20 Nov 1992 13:31:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov20.182307.3641@cs.ucla.edu>,
gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner) writes:
>In article <1ehl8gINNi8h@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) and I step into the ring again:
>gds>For me, the first few dates are a chance to get to know the other
>gds>person and vice versa, to determine if there will be anything else
>gds>afterwards. [...]
>gds>Your mileage may vary.
>
>gtd>Look, Greg. Some guys want to start off on the good foot and say
>gtd>here's where I am at. It doesn't scare me, or likewise women, to
>gtd>hear this.  It isn't a commitment, it's a statement of where the
>gtd>person is.  I mean, the guy may like me, but what he is really
>gtd>saying is, let's take it slow  if you have any expectations.
>
>I don't see how what I wrote above differs from what you say.
>In the relationship under discussion (mine), I distinctly recall
>telling her I wanted to take it slow (so did she).
.
.
Brother, you (at least ONE of up to 3 cats said this) said that you
couldn't see putting out a game plan on the first date.  You called
it a commitment.  I said it wasn't, it was simply a statement of
where the person (male or female) was and was conducive to further
discussion.
.
This number about you telling the sister to take it slow seems like
part of a new post, or perhaps I've overlooked it.

>gtd>And I don't care if it's a first or fifth date, people do have
>gtd>expectations.  People think while going through the social motions!
>gtd>"Oooo, she feels good." "I like that Certs on his breath, I hate
>gtd>nasty breath brothers."  And so on.
>
>I think it's people *not thinking* while going through the social
>motions that causes the type of problems we are discussing here.
.
.
Ye goddesses. Can I get a witness?  Both of you guys were thinking.
 How realistically is down for the count.

>gds>It is still possible to have fun and good times with your SO, even
>gds>if they do not feel for you exactly what you feel for them.
>
>gtd>This is playacting and phony in some ways.
>
>
>This is *totally different* from what I have been talking about!!
>I'm saying, if you are honest about how you feel, you can have a good
>time with your partner, even though your feelings may not be the same
>for her (him).  I'm not saying it's ok to be oblique and nebulous
>about where you are at or where you think things are going, or
>(falsely) raise the hopes of your partner, or make it seem like the
>situation is something else besides what it is.
.
.
Well, see this is what I am speaking of.  If the person IS digging
you, having a good time, and you know how they feel about you, why
can't you enjoy the feeling as well, instead of trying to think of
how to step on the other person's brakes, because YOU feel
threatened and scared?  If you can, fine.  But if you can't and feel
like you're going through the motions, stop the music.
>
>
>I used to be angry at the other person when stuff like this happened
>to me, then I realized I was just giving them power over me.
.
.
So,  now you admit there is such a thing as power in relationships?

>Funny, this whole debate started because of complaints you had about
>me and my ex.
.
.
Brother, let me repeat this:

Greg, will you get a real clue:  this discussion is not just about
you and your ex.  Plus, this long black song of Keith Smith's, that
this is black women's game plan all over for changing the subject is
a load.  Everyone does it on this board. Someone talking about Spike
Lee is later talking about something else someone else brought up.
Under the same heading!  Sheesh.
.
In this debate I used male and female interchangeably.  And no, I
did not blame YOU for everything.  You can stick to the facts if you
want.  I have every right to illustrate any distaff points in the
matter to show how things could be misconstrued.  As far as I am
concerned, you are making something out of absolutely nothing.  I am
not going to say you are completely blameless with your ex.  Period.
I repeat, there was too much going on to exonerate anyone from
blame.
>
>
>Maybe this doesn't change the truth (whatever that is) about black men
>and love, commitment, etc., but it will at least give *you* peace of
>mind.  In the end, you can only rely on you to take care of you.
>You can't make someone love you; you can't make someone be honest with
>you; all you can do is rely on *you*.
.
.
So?  You're simply reillustrating my points.
>
>
>Every relationship is different, but you won't get used if you rely on
>your own instincts instead of expecting the other person to act the
>way you want.
.
.
Goddesses below. Did I say that in any of these posts?  Sometimes
you can't even rely on your own "information."  Wasn't this the idea
behind your original posts?
.
You can't win.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american