HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Uses of high explosives in the backcountry
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:54:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.034147.18118@colorado.edu>,
 sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) writes:

|>And its great for rmoving cairns too.  Even those really big ones 
|>on S. Arapahoe.
|>

YES!!!! Fortunately so far, the ones I've found are/were small enough
to take care of with a grin and a foot.  I'm hoping to offer a 
gif file from soon to develop slides that will demonstrate this
procedure, at least, ... how it seems to work in the Wind Rivers.
We found the classic needless fresh cairn phenomenon up the East
Fork Valley leading to Bonneville ... any of you guys out there
put that one up last week?  I'll attempt to describe ... we 
found a stream of cairns going up ~ 1/2 mile wide valley with
~1000+ foot cliffs on each side.  Only a free solo multi-pitch
5.8 climber would have had a chance of getting lost in this valley.

     |                |
cliff|                | cliff
     |                |
     |                |
     |__    _____x____|
         WWW
       lakes    cairn


--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:13:00 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <18ibk0INNdl1@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
|In article <1992Sep5.205343.26094@midway.uchicago.edu> bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher) writes:
|>I just got back from a rather pleasant few days packing around the
|>Sangre de Cristo Mountains of NE New Mexico...
|>Imagine my surprise, therefore, to arrive at a small forested glen at
|>tree line and discover a rather large herd of cattle dropping bucket loads
|>of what cattle make best into the "fragile" stream. 
|
|I had the same experience in exactly the same location.  The cows really
|do make a mess of the meadows, and pretty well destroy a trail to boot.
 
But will they knock over a cairn?
-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:37:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.205826.13367@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
 
>If we keep the cows at there roaming, then we cease having the American
>"Wild" West.  We would have pastoral Europe.  This is similar to a second
>set of Chevron ads (the ones about the sheep).  We need to appeal to science
>and reason and not people's Bambi notions.
 
Don't know why but the combination of the "Wild" West and the Chevron Ads
in this posting reminded me of the hot sauce commercial that ends with the 
cow that says, "Animal!"

>Keep up the good work Marc (and Wayne and Greg).
>And remember: take no prisoners.
 
You'll never take me alive copper.  No prison can hold me.


-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Subject: Re: Reading this group too much
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources
NntpPostingHost: engineer.mrg.uswest.com
Date: 05 Sep 92 06:14:53 GMT

In article <Sep03.235425.59839@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>
>Some shoes have low impact SOLES, I'm told.  Some backcountry
>enthusiasts have low impact SOULS.
>
> 
>
>Wayne Trzyna
> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU

My SOLES follow my SOUL.

(this pun was bad the first time :)

 
Chris Fedde, USWEST MRG, chris@mrg.uswest.com, voice 3037842823
From: adaptive@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (zyda res acct)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Sleeping bag purchase!
Date: 10 Sep 92 05:11:24 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I am interested in purchasing a new sleeping bag and have narrowed my
choices down to two. Does anyone have any experience with either of
the following bags:

MANUFACTURER	     MODEL		FILL		SHELL	 TEMP
------------	     -----		----		-----	 ----
FEATHERED FRIENDS    SNOW BUNTING	DOWN 700c.i.	GORE-TEX 10
NORTH FACE	     DUNLIN             DOWN 650c.i.    GORE-TEX 10

I only have pictures in a mail-order catalog to go by and would
appreciate any responses from someone who has used one of these bags.

thanks,

george dabro

dabro@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR filter (was: Water treatment article from Am J Pub)
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:51:43 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bose.phys.ksu.edu

So, isn't anyone else annoyed by the fact that the MSR squeaks like a
tortured mouse (or is that only a part of the filter I used).  Also, how
about crunching your knuckles against the side of the filter when you pump. 
Finally, it seems that it's very easy to over-pump (cavitation, bubbles and
all that sort of wasted effort).  

I used an MSR a summer ago and when it came time to purchase a filter I
chose a PUR.  

-diverson

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rpg@world.std.com (r goldsmith)
Subject: Guidebooks to the Bavarian, Autrian Alps?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:04:32 GMT


Suggestions (english language preferable) welcome for hiking/easy
climbing guidebooks.  I have some of the german language guides, but I
can read these only with great deliberation.

rpg@world.std.com
or
rpg@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Moving to California
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:42:58 GMT

In article <Sep.9.19.20.13.1992.6231@remus.rutgers.edu>,
fletcher@remus.rutgers.edu (Sean A Fletcher) writes:
>
>A friend and I are faced with the interesting problem of moving
>from New Jersey to California.  We would like to do this in as
>entertaining a means as possible.  It occured to us, therefor, to
>attempt to rent a truck and drive it across the country.  However,
>this is neither good for the atmoshpere nor for one's wallet, as
>renting a truck can cost $12,00.00.
>
>What we finally wondered was if it would be possible for us to invite
>others in on our move.  In other words, if somebody were to read this
>and find that the services of a UHaul travelling across the country
>which left from New Brunswick, NJ on or about September 18, 1992 and
>travelling to Los Angeles, California, would be a benificial thing for
>them, I would urge you to contact me as soon as possible to find out
>if we could perhaps work out something affordable for all of us.
>
I suppose that from a NJ viewpoint driving truck to CA might be a
"backcountry" excursion. :-)
From: news@array.com (news)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:24:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Array Microsystems, Colorado Springs, CO. USA

hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens) writes:
: 
: 
: > The water topic brings up another question.  How do you stop a dog from 
: > drinking giardia infested water?  Have any of you dog owners that have 
: > brought a dog into the backcountry had the dog get giardia?
: > 
: No, and I can't believe it ever would.  I have seen my dog drink out of every body of water imagineable, and he has never gotten sick.  I suppose it is possible for a dog to get giardia, but I've never heard of it.  

I have a friend at work whose dog got giardia from drinking from 
a stream.  They had to take her to the vet and deliver stool 
samples for about a week.  She recovered, but it is possible.



Merf
From: johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Rogue tourists
Summary: Yellowstone forced to shoot rogue tourists ;-)
Keywords: Humor
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:10:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

From "High Country News," September 7, 1992, Vol 24, No 16.
Written by Mark Flower, Longmont, Colorado.

National Park Service officials today confirmed reports of the shooting of
two tourists in Yellowstone Park early this season.  The shootings were
authorized under a newly implemented policy to protect bears.

"I know this sort of thing upsets people," said an assistant director, "but
we had no choice in dealing with the problem.  Human-grizzly encounters are
simply too dangerous.  We attempted relocation of both tourists in the past,
but they just return next season.  The potential danger to bears had become
too great, and we had to remove these tourists permanently."

Apparently both tourists had been involved in a number of interactions with
bears in the past.  Park Service sources said both tourists had been relocated
the previous season to what were believed to be their home ranges, New York
City and Austin, Texas.  Despite the distance, both managed to return to
Wyoming this year, intimidating grizzlies attempting to catch fish after
emerging from hibernation.

"Some may think tourists are 'cute' or 'interesting,'" said one official, "but
they can be very unpredictable and dangerous."

She recounted attempts last year to keep one of the tourists, known to rangers
as "Al," from approaching a grizzly with his camera to take close-ups.

"It was a close call for two of our rangers.  Al suddenly swung his hiking
stick at them.  He caught one on the shoulder.  They finally got a tranquilizer
dart into him."

The other tourist, known as "Sonja," had been seen several times feeding
marshmallows to bears.  Attempts to remove her from the area resulted in
deep fingernail scratches on the necks and arms of two rangers.  She also
called them nasty names, one recalled.

Acknowledging controversy over the policy of shooting tourists who return to
areas habituated by bears, the assistant director said, "We can't have it both
ways.  If we want our park safe for wildlife, then we have to do whatever is
necessary to protect it."

Meanwhile, the congressional subcommittee on national parks of the Interior
Committee announced an investigation into the policy authorizing the
shootings.  "It's a real shame when something this unfortunate happens," said
the committee chairman.  "It could have been avoided with more reasonable
policies."  Hearings begin as soon as Congress returns from the summer recess.


:-) :-)  parody parody parody parody  :-) :-)  humor humor


   John Cooley
   Graphics:  The ability to make pie charts and bar graphs, which are the
              universal business method for making abstract concepts, such
              as "three," comprehensible to morons like your boss.
                                            -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ST21519@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU
Subject: Re: Unleaded stoves ??
Organization: LOUISIANA TECH UNIVERSITY
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 23:38:00 CST

>What about the multi-fuel stoves?  I originally thought they would
>be ideal, but no of the product information that I've seen states
>that unleaded auto gas can be used, just white gas, kerosene, etc.
 
I purchased a Coleman Peak 1 multifuel stove a couple of years back and posed
this very question to them.  They stated that UNleaded gas would be fine, but
that I should expect a BIG reduction in the life of the generator since the
UNleaded gas is not as pure as their fuel.  I believe they have a 1-800
number if you wish to contact them....1-800-555-1212 to find out for sure.
 
Eddie Rowe FidoNet#1:19/124.0
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: smithrs@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SMITH  RANDALL SCOTT)
Subject: Uses of high explosives in the backcountry
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:04:26 GMT


You know, with all of the noise everyone has been making about cows and forest-
fires and stoves and fishing, I'm surprised and highly amused that no one has
mentioned the obvious answer, the universal tool:  High explosives

Whenever I am in the backcountry, I always make sure that I have at least 6 
sticks of high explosives and a few blasting caps.  Not only are they light 
and easy to carry, they have a multitude of uses:

1)  Campsite preparations:  No longer will you have to hike that extra mile
away from your favorite fishing spot to reach a designated campsite.  With
just two well-placed charges you can instantly clear enough area for your tent,
generator and hammock.

2)  Pesky rangers and other critters:  Once you've cleared your site, the noise
will undoubtedly have scared off any food-seeking vermin within 2-3 miles.  
And even if it didn't, a few well-placed booby traps should keep your food 
store safe and sound, even if you don't tie it in a tree and you're in bear
country.  Besides, it's a great ranger deterent for those USFS brownshirts 
who come snooping around, asking pesky questions about why you aren't in
a designated campsite, don't have a permit to camp/fish/carry automatic weapons
etc, anyway.

3)  Wastepits, laterines:  Dynamite is dynamite for digging holes, and as 
everyone knows, holes are very useful in the backcountry.  You can use them
for burrying unsightly celophane, for laterines, for capturing rangers for
later sadistic activities, and, of course, if you find some valuble mineral
deposites, you can always strip-mine them out.

4)  Food gathering:  If you are into the wholesale slaughter of native fish
species, like I am, you know how useful high explosives are to dam streams,
thereby creating natural (heh) trout ponds.  And if the little buggers aren't
biting in their newly created habitat, just heave a stick or two into the center
of the lake.  Then you can just scoop them up off the surface.  Also, cows are
very easy to hunt using high explosive.  Just place a stick or two right by one.
Viola:  instant steaks.  As an added bonus, the cows that the explosion doesn't
kill usually stampede off a cliff or something:  great entertainment.

So, as you cna see, high explosives have a plethora of backcountry uses.  Makes
you wonder why no one mentioned this subject before... :-)

Randy Smith
the mad Chemist
smithrs@ucsu.colorado.edu
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: water purification methods
Date: 7 Sep 1992 18:48:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

Sounds like David Kehoe is "doing it right" by using a Timberline filter
to get out protozoa (such as giardia) then using calcium hypochlorite and
hydrogen peroxide to kill bacteria and viruses.  But watch for pH level,
since chlorine methods are pH-sensitive.  Suds in water can indicate alkali
content, and brownish water may contain tannic acid.  You may want to carry
litmus paper, vinegar, and lye(?) to adjust pH.  Municipal water systems
use breakpoint chlorination.  I'm not sure what this involves, but I read
about an outbreak of disease in Paris from some kind of bacteria or other,
before they started using this method.

Remember that iodine is an essential ingredient of human nutrition, whereas
chlorine is toxic, and is the main culprit in ozone depletion.  Most people
are better off using iodine-based methods than chlorine-based methods.  In
concentrations necessary to kill bacteria and viruses (assuing no giardia),
most people can't even detect the taste of iodine.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Floating through a forest fire
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:41:30 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <Sep14.153540.68180@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <14594@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>>| We did catch and eat quite a few bull trout 
>>
>>I suppose that is *close* to a cow.
>
>Closer to a char, actually.  Eastern brook trout also are actually a char
>and not a trout.  Char also can run to the sea.  Does anyone know where
>the name "bull trout" came from?
 
I'd never heard of one until you mentioned it.  I have a book that has
a really good chart for identifying trout.  Perhaps this topic would
be more appropriate for rec.outdoors.fishing (although the book was 
written by Ralph Cutter) but if there is interest I'd be happy to post
the diagram.
-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:28:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <18ibk0INNdl1@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:

>I had the same experience in exactly the same location.  The cows really
>do make a mess of the meadows, and pretty well destroy a trail to boot.
>
>I expressed my surprise to a backcountry ranger that cattle grazing
>was allowed in a wilderness area.  She gave me the impression
>that this was a somewhat unique situation.  I suspect the grazing rights
>were grandfathered in when the Pecos Wilderness Area was established.
>Anyone know for sure?
>

There are grandfathered cows in several wilderness areas, I believe.
We were in a relatively new Wilderness area (1984?) in the Sierra this 
summer where this was the case. Much lower altitude, but still pretty
delicate due to thin soils. We did find some nice spots, but many of the
"meadows" were pretty badly shat and trampled. We were quietly encouraged 
by a ranger (who was out with the cow permittee visiting an "over-used"
site that day) to write the forest service and complain. 
Sigh. At least the 4WDs weren't grandfathered. Their trails are starting 
to grow over and I didn't see a single jeep turd.

--Peter



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Desolation Wilderness Questions
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:06:04 GMT
Distribution: usa

>>One of
>>the ways they determine how much money a Wilderness area gets is by use,

Nonsense.
This is not how budgeting is determined.
However, lacking a permit if caught, can (typically will) result in a stiff
fine.  Poor excuse for something which is free.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:16:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.153747.19599@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM
(Richard Ottolini) writes:
>I haven't been snowed on July yet in the Sierras, but it is merely a matter
>of time.  I have had to cross snow drifts in July, e.g. Mt. Whitney trail.

Funny you should mention that region at that time.  We had 5 days
with brief snows out of 9.  Low visibility, cold, wet, stinging in the face,
tingling in the fingers and hands.  Trying to cross 12K passes.
Nice contrast to the heat.  Travelling with the geologists and the botanists.
Great trip.

It's Labor Day I worry most about.  I went and hiked Williamson/Tyndall
back in 1978 on Labor Day.  We didn't realize it, but the storm we had
killed three people (Bishop Pass (lightning) and Lamarck Col (2-hypothermia)).

"Sorry sir, but we have eaten the last of the geologists."
					--Punch

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya

	Richard, our SIGGRAPH mtg for the 22nd is Doug Englebart.
From: cheu@neptune.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Nov/Dec Camping at Saguaro and Organ Pipe
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Reply-To: cheu@neptune.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:47:33 GMT


My wife and I are planning to camp at Saguaro Cactus and/or
Organ Pipe Cactus Nat'l Monuments over this Thanksgiving weekends.
Can somebody tell me what temperature range to expect and
where are the better/more secnic hiking trails ?

Kelvin
From: stanford@spark (Adam Stanford)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: clothing
Date: 8 Sep 1992 15:41:43 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: spark.berkeley.edu

Looking for advice on heavy-duty goretex shells to be used
for mountaineering, including glacier travel.  Anybody have
any experience with the North Face Mountain Jacket or Mountain
Light Jacket?  or other recommendations?

thanks,
Adam Stanford
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Uses of high explosives in the backcountry
Date: 14 Sep 1992 17:31:03 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bose.phys.ksu.edu

Ahh, here's a very good use for high-explosives:

There is a wonderful bit of scenery in New Hampshire called the Waterville
Valley, a gorgeous dead end valley in the Sandwich Range.  Unfortunately it
also houses the Mt. Tecumsah ski area and a hefty plastic-disposable
condominium community as well (that has sprouted up like mutant mushrooms in
the last 20 years).  

Anyway WHEN I WIN THE LOTTERY:  I'm going to buy a block of condos and
BOOM!!!! leave the smoking hole!  Watch the property on either side drop in
value, buy it and then BOOOMMM! a bigger smoking hole until it's allllll
gone!  Then I'll restore the vegetation and donate it to the Nature
Conservancy.  


Then again, maybe I'll just blow it up without the deed....

-diversion

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: rbw00@ccc.amdahl.com (  324  Richard Wilmot)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:26:37 GMT
Reply-To: rbw00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  324  Richard Wilmot)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <Bu9w4F.DzI@cup.hp.com> markd@cup.hp.com (Mark_Donohoe) writes:
		.... stuff deleted ...

>
>Generally no, sleep at altitude 1st before doing much strenous(sp) things...
>drink lots of fluids and see how it goes.  It should only take a day or 2 for
>your body to get used to it...but you will feel the altitude even after
>aclimitization....that's how it goes.
>

I was taught (last Spring in Mt. Medicine Institute) to "sleep low, hike high".
I had been sleeping high (e.g. 10K') and hiking higher. I've never had a problem
but members of my family have. The reasoning at MMI was that lower pressures
cause fluid outflow in lungs and this is worst during sleep.

Thought you might like to know. I have not, however reformed. Driving from sea
level to sleep at 10K'.

-- 
  Dick Wilmot  | I declaim that Amdahl might disclaim any of my claims.
                 (408) 746-6108