From: kraus@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dave Kraus)
Subject: Re: Insults
Reply-To: kraus@cheers.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dave Kraus)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:12:44 GMT

In article <722505755.0@wyrm.rbbs-net.ORG> Rick.Moen@f207.n914.z8.rbbs-net.ORG (Rick Moen) writes:
>> From: kraus@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dave Kraus)
>> Message-ID: <1992Nov18.171513.4431@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>
>
>>>I think the best solution is the only one that will absolutely,
>>>positively keep the bulk of this blithering out of newsgroups:
>>>universal insensitivity -- a truly liberating idea whose time has
>>>come.
>>
>> Are you talking about robots, or are you talking about human beings?
>> It would be nice to be able to discuss ideas without emotion, but
>> it is human nature to become personally involved with ideas one
>> believes in. This is true for insulters and insultees alike. Ideally
>> it would be great if we could detach our emotions from our beliefs,
>> but I have known few who can do so.
>
>This is a straw-man objection, in that Bronx-cheering people out of
>theatrical hypersensitivity of the attention-getting variety in no
>way presupposes an absence of emotion.  Indeed, annoyance and mild
>disgust are obviously among the applicable emotions, here.
>
>Further, your statement begs the question of whether people's becoming
>emotionally involved with their ideas must inevitably lead them to
>making a big, attention-getting show of being "insulted" in public.
>I would like to believe that, for everyone other than the more
>unbalanced adolescents, this is not the case.

Yes, making an "attention-getting show of being insulted" can be construed
as adolescent. The same goes for people who have to stoop to insults when
they can't argue ideas. The same goes for people who relish in making
people squirm instead of defeating their arguments.

>>>As long as proclaiming one's self "insulted" is an effective way to
>>>get attention, people who see themselves as power-deprived will
>>>continue to seek the eradication of "insults" as an alternative to
>>>substantive improvement of their condition.  Hypersensitive
>>>noisemaking, however emotionally satisfying to some, is a poor
>>>substitute for progress.
>
>> I would agree with you, except to add that the insult is often used
>> as a tool by the insulter to intimidate, or change the subject from
>> a discussion of ideas to a discussion of personalities.
>
>Then, it would seem to be in the interest of the "insulted" party to be
>not so easily _manipulated_, wouldn't it?  Absent sufficient
>intelligence and self-control for that, maybe it would help to ignore
>him, rather than encouraging his long shtick about how "insulted" he is.
>'Might aid such people in growing up.

It also might help to ignore the adolescent attacks of a person who strives
to drag conversations into the mud. To substitute attack for intelligent
discourse and thereby demonstrating lack of self control sure isn't going
to help teach anyone how to grow up. What you've got to realize is that
its a two way street. There are adolescents on both sides. Those who
relish in hurting others by changing the subject with personal attacks, and
those who haven't got the internal strength to maturely handle such attacks.

Do you really feel that the only problem is that we have got a bunch of
whiners out there? Do you really think that the use of insults also does
not reflect an adolescent approach to discussion?



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Dave.Kraus@SanDiego.NCR.COM                       |
(619) 485-2504                                    |
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Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:19692 soc.culture.african.american:11186