HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:34:53 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#YOU ARE NEVER ALONE!
 Which is why many experts also tell you never to say anything
 that you don't want repeated in court.  Such as:

 "Here, have another"
 "Got you, you son of a ..."
 "I'm going to kill you, you . . . "

 Remember, if you did call 911, they can also hear everything
 you say/do, plus most departments record incoming calls.

 Also Andrew's comment about stepping backwards, (assuming doing so
 doesn't compromise your safety), is useful, if your out on the
 street.  You want ANYBODY who is watching to know that you are 
 the victim, and not the assailant.  It's really nice when a witness
 says: "He tried getting away, but that other guy just kept coming
 at him".  Once again YOU must decide if this is a reasonable action
 to take give the situation.

 As for holding someone at gun point.  If the person just backed
 away, or even turned and ran like hell, I'd probably just let them
 go.  In general, no Cop/DA is going to complain about you NOT shooting
 someone.  I guess there would be some exceptions, such as if you just
 witnessed this person murder someone, or the person just raped/greviously
 assaulted a family_member/friend/cop.  There is the problem that
 they may be just running for cover, but hopefully you would be
 operating from a covered position also.
 
 1) The primary rule is to stay alive, (including your family/friends).
 2) The secondary rule is to stay healthy, (including your family/friends).

 Getting revenge or even holding someone for the cops ranks alot lower
 on the list than numbers 1 or 2.

 All in all, I don't think that there is any one set of rules that
 you can follow for all situations.  Events just vary too much. It's
 easy to say, "I'll just lock the bedroom door, get my gun, and call
 911".  But what if the guy is in the process of attacking your wife?
 Hell, even if the guy was just fighting with my dogs.  I'm not going
 to even leave them out there by themselves.  I owe them more consideration
 than that.

 Oh well.  Off to the gun show in ~5 more hours.  Probably my last
 chance to buy something before Dec 31.  The only problem with gun
 shows is, too many choices, and not enough $$$$. :-)  [Yes I know,
 buy one of each!]

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
				NRA, ILA,
                                Colorado Firearms Collation

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:10:27 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

# I think that's burglary (entering private property with the intention
# of committing a crime) not robbery (where the intention is theft.)

Not quite:

Burglary is the crime of breaking into and entering a building with the
intention of stealing. Robbery is the unlawful taking of property by the
use of violence or intimidation. If there is no breaking or entering or
violence or intimidation then we are talking about simple theft. If they
break into your house and steal from you using violence or intimidation,
then it looks to me like they are guilty of burglary and robbery and
maybe assault also. If they break into your house for the purpose of
commiting another crime, then that is breaking & entering plus whatever
other crimes they commit.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: TXK107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 1911-A1 38 SUPER
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:10:20 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I own a pre-70 1911-A1 in 38 super, and I can't get the bugger to shoot with an
y hand loads I have tried. The firearm is in excellent condition, so I don't wa
nt to radically modify it. I tried NM links on the barrel.. NM bushing.
My next step is the net,to ask if a NM barrel that spaces on the mouth provides
more consistant accuracy. Since I am very pleased with Springfields hardware,an
d their 38 super spaces on the mouth a comment on this model would be appreciat
ed.

                                           Terry Kuzma
                                           'Cock n' Lock'
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W 5906
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:08:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.kf1yKHG00WBLE4PJNg

roy@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu writes >

# I want to get some ideas from some people on the S&W 5906 good, bad, 
# or indifferent.  I already own a Taurus 92, and would like to stay in the
# 9mm family for my second gun, and I have looked at the 5906.  Anyone
that owns
# one (or used to own one) what are your opinion?

...and on a related note: what the heck is the differemce between the
5906 and the new 915, besides $110 ?

-Seth
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting in Atlanta
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:30:43 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

(No, this isn't an incident.)

I'll be in north Atlanta (Gwinette, actually) for the latter part of
this week (November 18..21) and was thinking of going to an indoor
range.  Any suggestions?  I may be getting with a friend from GaTech
for a short evening Saturday - suggestions for the rest of Saturday?

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: ccrafton@daewoo.math.indiana.edu (c.crafton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Net FFls
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:26 GMT


C.L. Crafton Jr.
ccrafton@daewoo.math.indiana.edu
DBA "Firearms Unlimited"
in: Lexington, Ky.
10% with a $20 minimum.
Specializing in modern military arms.
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LASERs - rangefinders?
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:08:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: jpl-devv.1992Nov16.181832.26818
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Nov13.013459.7257@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
:In article <4181@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
:#
:#Speaking of LASER's, and laser sights for guns, does anyone know
:#if there is a laser rangefinder produced commercially?
:#
:#How hard would it be to build one?
:#
:#Could the laser speed detectors that police are beginning to use be
:#adapted?
:
:Let's examine how speed radars and rangefinders work. Speed detectors,
:radar or laser, measure the frequency shift of the return signal caused
:by the moving target generating a doppler shift. 
:
:Gary
:
:

Not exactly, police speed radar uses the Doppler principle, however
police Laser speed detectors use muliple range finding technique to
calculate the velocity.  Distance to the target is taken at precisely
known time intervals, the differential distance is divded by the time
to give the speed. You probably could use one of these with
modification to measure target distance, but you better have money to
burn, I understand that these devices go for $3-$5k.

Lee


"Nothing blasts forever" -- Keats on ammo.

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need Accessories for Galil AR  .223
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:19 GMT
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.



In article <13254@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#
#In article <1e8qjqINNl8f@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, Dave.Maycon@EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon) writes:
#
## nearly impossible to purchase "stuff."  Does anybody know where I can get
## a scope mount, cheek rest and a AR-15 Magazine adapter.  I need possibly
## toll-free numbers or addresses of catalogs where I can get my hands on these
## products.
#
#Quality Parts, 800-556-SWAT.

	Correction. That is the old Quality Parts number. In the past
couple of months they have changed 800 numbers. Here are the current
numbers for Quality Parts:

	(800) 998-7928  (800) 998-SWAT)
	(207) 892-2005

	FAX (207) 892-8068

Note the 800 order number is manned 24 Hrs. Just in case it's 3 AM and
you just have to order an AR-15 Shorty Buttstock.


-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@WA6FWI.#SOCA.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: micjrs@mica.mic.ki.se (Richard Soderberg, MD)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recoil Formula
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:55:30 GMT
Organization: The Karolinska Institute, Sweden


In article <9211200842.aa18675@TBD2.BRL.MIL> PFD|PPB, abrant@BRL.MIL
writes:
#This seems to be neglecting the most important factor, velocity.
In my old ballistics bible ("Jagdtballistik" by Walther Lampel) 
another factor is introduced (which probably is a derivative of
the factors mentioned above) namely the force/time relationship.
Eg: A recoil situation with average force f acting on the shooters
shoulder (eyebrow?) during time t appears to be far more comfortable
than a situation where force 2*f acts during time t/2 despite the
fact that the work performed  is the same in both cases.
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Home made hollow points
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:44 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280


I buy reloads for my 9mm and they are copper plated,  can I just drill
a hole on the top and make them hollow points?
From: JJD118@psuvm.psu.edu (J.Donovan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: How to measure barrel length on semiauto
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:05:37 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Autos...

Close chamber. Place dowel into muzzle, and mark. Auto BBL length includes
chamber.

Revolver
Open cylinder. Place something to block breech of bbl. place dowel into
muzzle and mark. Does NOT include chamber.

hope this helps.

-JD
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:31 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Nov18.210504.5482@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#Alistair Maclain (sp?) ("Guns of Navarrone", "Ice Station Zebra",
#"Golden Gate", etc.) often had his heroes using small caliber
#guns (Lilliputs) and aiming for the inside of the hip (femoral
#artery).  His claim was that it would disable the opponent
#quickly from shock presuming the artery was hit.  He also claimed
#the guy would die fairly quickly unless there was a good surgeon
#available and that the he would be crippled as well.  Has anyone
#seen any real data on these theories?

If the femoral artery is hit, unless there is a trauma surgeon there
(in tha case of a pelvic hit) on the spot, ready, the person who is
hit will die within a matter of minutes; the heart is pumping blood
directly into the femoral artery, so it might as well be pumping the
blood out directly from the heart. Since the described hit was inside
the pelvic girdle, there's really not a pressure point to stop th flow
(and it's flowing much too fast to clot effectively). 
A hit to the inside of the hip is also likely to damage the joint itself,
and, probably, the nerves that control the leg, and possibly, the bullet
could wind uo in the spine (not to mention what the sudden, total loss
of blood supply to the lower body would do...)
I'm not a doctor, but this is what I remember from biology in high school.

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	I feel lucky, I feel lucky yeah
	Hey Dwight, Hey Lyle, boys, you don't have to fight,
	Hot dog, I feel lucky tonight
			--Mary-Chapin Carpenter, "I Feel Lucky"
From: U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: carrying guns-thanks all!
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92321.011233U28037
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Thanks very much to all of the people who sent me replies to my
questions regarding carrying weapons concealed.  My search ended up at the
school library looking at the Illinois statutes regarding weapons.
Guess I'm a very unlucky guy because Illinois only allows people who
have a VERY good reason to carry a gun to carry one.  Oh well, such is
life.  Guess I'll either have to move or join some kind of law
enforcement agency :-)  I really enjoyed one reply that said that in
Illinois only people who had a good reason to carry a gun could and that
living in Chicago should constitute a good enough reason :-)  Thanks
again guys!  You're input was very helpful.

Have a fun and safe time shooting!

Jason
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What to buy....
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:33:11 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Nov14.043630.21903@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#The changes in gun purchasing ability that I see looming concern me,
#and I am considering purchasing some new black toys.  I'm annoyed at
#the possibility that I'm going to have to pass on a nice over&under
#just because some unthinking folks in Washington may ban something
#I'll want next year, but I guess that's life.
#
#So, I'm asking folks to name what they think will be banned, assuming
#that a ban is possible and is attempted.  I've got a lot of what I'd
#expect to be banned (SKS, AR-15, etc) but what other toys do folks
#think may be banned?  I'm really not interested in the HK-91 (I reload
#for a friend with one) and sort of like the SP89 (true ban bait here,
#no?).  Are there others that folks feel are nice pieces and potential
#ban targets?

Since the ban in California exists it may be useful as a model for what
to expect in other legislation.  I don't have the California list with
me, but it basically includes anything that looks high-tech or
"different".  The high-capacity Calicos, the Street Sweeper, the
AR-15, the AR-180, and similar firearms are on the list.

There's another consideration - it is quite possible for a legislature
to destroy all the value in your investment by declaring it to be
contraband.  I know that the Constitution supposedly requires
restitution in the case of seizures but look at the way things have
been really happening.  I ask myself "can I really afford to lose
every bit of investment in XXX if they declare it to be contraband?"
It's a very unpleasant thought :-(.

Sometimes a minor cosmetic change can make all the difference between
being on the list and not being on the list.  For example, the MAK-90
is OK but the AK47 is not.  The thumbhole stock apparently has
sufficient artistic appeal to take away the "evil gun" perception.
The bayonet lug is considered bad but the lack of a lug is considered
good.  All of this suggests that a visually attractive firearm is
less likely to end up on a list than a visually "different" firearm.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:07 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Nov16.212303.14944@news.acns.nwu.edu> mikea@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson) writes:
#
#I really don't think that shooting below the waist is a good idea unless
#that's your only good target.

What if the perpetrator is wearing a ballistic vest?

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hungarian Model 61 .380ACP?
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:45 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <dylqbs-@lynx.unm.edu>, boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu
(Bob Boardman) writes:
#
#    I've been seeing some ads for these pistols in _SGN_ for about
#  $130, and they look like quite a deal - PPK clones with alloy frame/
#  steel slide, in .380 ACP instead of 9x18 Makarov.  Has anyone on the
#  net had a chance to shoot one of these yet?  I'd be interested in
#  impressions, opinions, whatever, from anyone who has even handled
#one
#  of these.

If these are the ones made (or imported?) by KBI, then the one I looked
at in a gun shop had a terrible trigger (DA). I couldn't keep the gun
pointed straight while pulling the trigger, and my wife couldn't even
pull the trigger with only one finger.

Spend the extra money for a good gun.
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ramline Sig Magazines...
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:47:07 GMT

Paul Yoshimune:
 >Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Ramline's 18-round (!) Sig
 >P226 magazines?

I have five.  I bought them all at gun shows for $10 to $15.

I retired one because several times it locked the slide open on the next to
last round.  I consider that too unreliable and inconsistent.

I have temporarily retired another because I broke the bottom plate by
dropping it on the ground during a speed reload.  It was heavy with its
sixteen remaining rounds and I'm sure that contributed.  It is important to
realize that the plastic bottom plate is vulnerable to breakage from rough
handling.  On the other hand, they work fine with no bottom plate at all.
It's just rough on your hand  :-).  

I like the design because I feel that you can leave all 18 rounds in a
magazine and not worry at all about spring fatigue.  It is just the stupid
plastic parts!

My experience is that the reliable ones are absolutely reliable and the
others don't deserve to be trusted ( just like any magazine ).  This means
they don't have a precise handle on manufacturing tolerances, and there is
at least one design flaw.

#From a political point of view, they are strong supporters!  I was on a tour
there and at the time the magazine bans were being considered by the House
of Representatives.  I mentioned to vice president Steve Chessnut that
RamLine could make a bundle if the 7 round limitation went into effect.  He
looked at me with disdain and said " But that is not the point, is it?"

These are good people to have on our side.

 >DVC,
  ^^^ in politics as well as self defense!

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: larryd@stein.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

[...]

#Use force to prevent bad guys from running away? Like how?

#As a side question, how do I prepare myself so that I know I can
#sqeeze the trigger when the time comes? I took a few so-called combat
#action shooting classes. But shooting at paper targets is a completely
#different story than shooting at a human being, IMHO. Guess mental
#training is *VERY* important too. Any comments?

You should *not* carry a weapon for defense until you have considered
the moral ramifications.  Carrying a weapon you are not prepared to
use will get you killed/hurt.  What you must do is sit down and
evaluate the relative importance of your life and the lives of your
loved ones versus the life/lives of an assailant(s).  

---
Larry
From: lion@netcom.com (carl loeber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: National Guard highpower changes
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Does anyone know if California has a M-14 issue or "loan"
program as part of the DCM? Oder?

Thanks.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glocks and Lead Bullets?
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:14 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Nov17.210359.5084@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes:
#I believe the problem above is due to the polygonal barrel in 9mm Glocks.
#The big-bore Glocks do not have a polygonal barrel ...

Is that really true?  Certainly the .40S&W models have so-called
"polygonal rifling".

I think the real problem is that the lead bullets get banged up
during the semiautomatic loading cycle.

I've also observed keystoning with one major inexpensive lead-
bulleted brand (and a .45ACP user told me he had the same experience).
If the bullet is not aerodynamically sound then of course one will
get lousy groups.
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle in Defense ( was Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns? )
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:41:04 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <By5IMA.Lqo@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
     callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#
#On re-reading the article, I think he actually meant 100 yards, which 
#is an absurdly long distance for handgun shots (unless you have a 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#SIG P210 or one of those Mauser pistols with a stock).
#
	I believe you are speaking about something with which you have
  no experience.  Certainly, someone who has not practiced with a pistol
  is unlikely to do very well at 100 yards.  On the other hand, I know
  quite a few people who could easily put the majority of their shots
  with ANY of their defensive handguns into the black on a B21 target
  at 100 yards.  I've seen some of them repeatedly hit 55 gal drums at
  over 200 yards.  This was using standard "defensive" style semi-autos
  in 9mm or .45, not some fancy single-shot hunting handgun or a SIG
  P210, or shoulder stocks, either.  Maybe you should get a little more
  experience before you start calling 100 yards an "absurdly long
  distance".

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
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