From: nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:48:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.234148.6685@netcom.com> robj@netcom.com (Rob Jellinghaus) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.184650.5524@midway.uchicago.edu> nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) writes:
>>Americans are tolerant.  They simply do not accept the proposition that there
>>is no moral difference between gay and straight behavior.
>
>You use "Americans" very casually, then.  Recent CNN polls show about
>70% of Americans think homosexuals are entitled to the same rights as
>heterosexuals.

Be very careful here.  When specifically asked, they clearly disapprove of
gays adopting children, of government sanctioned gay marriages, etc.
(Even Clinton disapproves of the latter).  As I have said, Americans are
quite tolerant in a general way, but become increasingly concerned depending
on the specific issue.
>
>WHY do some Americans think there _is_ a moreal difference between gay
>and straight behavior?  What moral difference, exactly?  And morals
>with respect to who? 

It has to do with a deep seated cultural belief that families help act 
as the glue with which the social fabric is held together.  They want
to see their children marry and have children of their own.  They want
to see this occur in a natural way to the extent possible.  Speaking
quite generally here, it's not that they would necessarily condemn their
child who becomes gay, but that they believe it is right and proper to
do all in their power to encourage their child to be straight.  I might add
here that the discrimination between gay and straight sex falls into the
same sort of class as that between sex between "lovers" and that between
a prostitute and her customer.  People draw a moral distinction between
the two for reasons similar to those I've mentioned above.

>
>>As I've said, our culture and our laws basically reinforce what the traffic
>>will allow.  People believe that their kids will live happier lives and that
>>society will function better if homosexuality is not encouraged.  
>
>And the question again, so you don't duck it again, is WHY DO PEOPLE
>BELIEVE THIS?  There are simply no facts which support it.
>
Culture is of belief, not necessarily of facts.  I suspect it is a fact,
however, that most Americans do not want to see their children engage in
gay behavior.  I suspect that it is also a fact that if homosexuality
were to achieve equal footing with heterosexuality in the eyes of society
that its practice would increase.  And as it did, the character (if not
the proliferation) of our culture would be affected in a way that most 
citizens would not like to see.



>Apparently far fewer believe it now than in the past.  In the words
>of our President-Elect: "We don't have a person to waste."  We are 
>harmed by stigmatizing some of our own citizens.  We are harmed by
>bigotry and by the lies the anti-gay factions spread.
>

As I've mentioned, he too is opposed to sanctioning gay marriages.
Again, most Americans do not wish to see gays discriminated against
in the general case.  But as the general becomes the specific, concerns
arise.  We may accept the case of the gay English teacher, for example,
while having serious concerns with the case of the gay gym teacher.
We may accept the case of the gay couple living next door, but have
serious reservations about them adopting or raising children.  These
sorts of issues must be worked out on a case by case basis.  All the 
protests, all the name calling in the world will not alleviate the
concerns involved.

>I am very glad we will soon have a President who has stated that
>lesbians and gays have a place in his vision of America.  As he has
>also said: "Americans are suffering from the most curable affliction
>in the world: ignorance."  Why not let the cure begin with you, Roger?
>Why do you believe that gays are morally inferior to straights, and
>that being against equal rights for gays is not bigoted?
>
Re-read my post.

Roger Shouse



Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality