From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Funny
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:18:56 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Oct10.093328.16688@netcom.com>, jazz@netcom.com (David C. Navas) writes:
> In article <6154.2ad47f65@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>>Interesting. I agree wholeheartedly that memory protection is a Good Thing.
> 
>>Technically, cooperative multitasking and preemptive multitasking need not
>>be distinguishable, if all elements of the system cooperate correctly. 
> 
> Technically, the only difference between memory protection and no memory
> protection is "all elements of the system cooperate correctly."

I wasn't talking about memory protection.

>>Unfortunately, some items do not. (eg floppy disk formatting) Therefore 
>>preemptive tasking is looked at as a Good Thing. In actuality, what is
>>really needed is Good Multitasking -- regardless of the technology.
> 
> What is needed is a realization that, the more tools the programmer has, the
> more chance he/she has a chance to get done what he/she has in mind.

Quantity of tools is irrelevant. (What good is 100 development tools when you
only have the time to master a couple?) QUALITY of development tools is
more important. I'd rather have one truely excellent tool than a dozen 
mediocre ones.

> The same thing goes for the user, SOME of the time.

Quality over quantity is even more important for the user. He has even less
time (and fewer skills) to master a large number of tools.

> What Apple has done with the Macintosh, historically, has been picking a few
> tools and implementing them -very- -well-.  System 7.x was a radical
> departure from this.  

I don't see this. I see System 7 has consistant with this phylosophy.

> I happen to think that programmers who are not competent enough to handle
> the choice of a more divergent set of tools shouldn't be programming in the
> first place.  Or need to go back for more training.

Or simply need more hours in the day.... <grin>

> Bill, you appear to be using "creative" rhetoric to avoid the issue.  

Appearances can be deceiving. I'm not trying to avoid the issue. What is the
issue, by the way?

> I say this because your arguments against preemptive multitasking are just
> as valid against memory protection.  Yet you wish for the latter and not
> the former.  Could this mean it has more to do with programmer's preference
> rather than any ultimate reality of "good" or "bad"?

Not at all. I'm not against either PM or MP. (Whew, that saves typing). 
Both can be good technologies.

The point I'm trying to make is that these technologies don't convey much
benefit to the user. The technology is cool, but the user never sees
technology, he only realises benefit from using technology.

In a list of benefits of a computer OS, PM and MP are way down on the list,
and are really minor considerations. That's my point.

If you give me either MP or PM, just make sure that you're not sacrificing
some other more important consideration.

As a developer, I have more use for MP than PM. That's probably why I sound
more in favor of MP than PM.

>>Finally, multithreading is overblown. I for one don't want to have to
>>deal with threaded applications. I've written one, and it was a bear to
>>test and debug.
> 
> I've written an entire system that was chock full of multi-threading.  This
> was a system of, oh, say, about 12 programs.  I had no trouble at all
> debugging it.  It all rather depends on the tools one has, doesn't it?

Perhaps it depends more on the nature of the problem at hand. Had I been
given your assignment, I might have come to the same conclusion, and you
mine.

>>No thank you. I'd just as soon keep my applications as single threaded as
>>possible. 
> 
> Which is one of the things that makes working on a Mac (for me!) a completely
> boring and unintuitive thing.

I find it quite the opposite!

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
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