From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 21:05:31 GMT

<1992Mar29.171702.25617@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) said:
>Ahhh, talka.bortion. Do you guys really talk about it? No, I don't think so.

Care to tell us something new?  Got a new argument or a new viewpoint?
Didn't think so.

>Abortion alone isn't the problem. Abortion is one of the many cataclysmic 
>results of our society's progress. You see, abortion is just a simple result
>of our way of thinking, no different from the increase in murders, lack
>of religious following, increased promiscuity, and transmission of
>venerial disesase of epedemic proportions in th elast 100 years.

Nope.  (I assume you just wanted a simple answer since you attempted to
distill so much of societal cause-and-effect into one paragraph)

>   Welcome to the age of secular humanism friends. This is no time to think 
>about the future. We most live only for the now. We have no respect for the
>potential of anything anymore, unless it's money. 

The concepts you purport have little to do with secular humanism and are
more descriptive of hedonism.  Please check your definitions before you post
things like this.

...

>    If we as a society feel that 9 months of pain is not worth 80 years
>of happiness to someone else,. then we are truly in the wrong direction. 

I notice that you don't have to worry about the 9 months of pain you are
so willing to force a woman to bear.  You know, you could probably live a
long life even if you had a kidney and some bone marrow removed.  You
would also help someone else live a long life.  Why haven't you run down
to the hospital to donate these things?  It's such a minor inconvenience
when compared to the happiness you'd be giving others.

>We only think of ourselves in this day and age, and it's truly
>pathetic. 

Why?

>          No one looks to a higher faith for strength or guidance anymore
>because they feel they can look to themselves... Well, this egomaniacal
>"let me choose because I know it all" attitude is just going to get us all in
>alot of trouble. 

Why?  Your religion has resulted in some of the worse abuses of human
rights in earths history.  What do you have to say to that?

>   Now - the woman each time she has sex knows that with it comes responsibility.

And abortion might be the responsible thing for her to get.

>We Christians discourage promiscuity for several reasons:
>a) Discourages the possibility of pregnancy before you are ready to
>accomadate a child...

So does adequate birth control.

>b) We believe there is a time and a bplace for each new experience, and
>getting sex at 14 is not the time...

Hey, my first sexual experience was at 14 (with an older woman of 18).
While I was far too scared to really enjoy the experience I definately
would not trade it.  You know not of what you speak (obviously).

>c) We believe that sex with multiple partners can only weaken an
>other-wise uimportant link in a relationship (marriage)

Why?  May be it weakens it for you - so don't do it.

>d) Sex can provide many imporantant decisions to a couple, that
>they may not be ready to answer...

Questions are answered - decisions are not.

>   People say that adoption isn't the answer because the mother shouldn't
>have to go through 9 months of pain, but if you're gonna pee into the wind, 
>expect to get wet. That's another problem in our society... 

Women pee into the wind???  Who are you hanging around with?

>                   That's another problem in our society... We don't feel
>the need to take any responsibility for our actions. That's life however...

You keep using the word 'responsibility'.  I don't think it means what you
think it means.

>   Another thing that kills me is that some people who are "catholic"
>on the net believe in abortion... How can that be? We Catholics value and
>cherish life at all levels, potential, and handicapped. 

Just not pregnant life.

>                                                        The reason you 
>see us as such "freaks and eccentrics" is because each time there is
>an abortion, we see it as MURDER.

Yes, you are irrational.  You also see eating a cracker and drinking wine
as eating human flesh and drinking human blood.  It doesn't speak well of
your credability.

>                                  Not some convenient "termination of
>a fetus" but the "Killing of a life". Whether you believe, or agree with
>us does not matter. That is how we see it, and our opinions cannot be
>changed. 

We've noticed.  However, the Catholic church has reversed itself on many
occasions.  I don't believe the church now recognizes the earth as the
center of the solar system.  Nor does the life loving church approve of
burning people at the stake to cleanse their souls, anymore.

>   I know that we cannot impose our views on others, not because it would
>be ethically wrong, but because it is physically imossible. The secular
>humanist attitude is too strong to sway. Living purely in the present is
>an addiction that cannot be fought easily.

You really should check the political and spiritual definitions of secular
humanism before posting this crap.

>                                           Foresight for the future requires
>maturity, responsibility, and discipline. Many in our day have lost that.

You mean the celebate guy in the Vatican wearing a dress?  The one who
isn't listening to god telling him to 'go forth and multiply'?

...

>   In any case, I don't intend to argue a moot point about the status
>of the fetus. I will not argue what a fetus could be like at 9weeks, 
>because I know what it CAN be at 9 years. 

A gang member and dope seller?

>                                          If you dont' have enough
>love for your spouse, that you would cherish the gift that you two have
>shared, then I feel sorry for you and can only hope that you find a 
>better relationships. 

Sort of a narrow scope you have there.  There are many single parents
that never got married.  Hard to have a spouse to treasure when not
married.

>                      If you feel that contraception and the likes is
>a necessity in your life, then remember that lots of Catholics continue
>their sex lives long into the future, and don't have to rely on
>contraception whatsoever. 

Yeah, they just keep having kids.  Real solution there.

>                          If you see a child as a threat to your
>future, and feel that it would interfere with your plans financially,
>then perhaps you should take a step back and give your life a bit of
>a look-over. There are too many adults in this world who forgot to grow
>up...

I agree.  Grow up will you!

Sheesh, yet another pro-life 'Steve'.  Is there something about that name?


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boyfriend of Susan,
Muriel, Cathi, and Nora, and darn proud of it.
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion