HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: LS45@UNB.CA (LS45)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Stress?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:21:04 GMT
Organization: The University of New Brunswick

Jasper, the 3 month old puppy we got from the shelter Monday, has
done really well about not having accidents in the house, but he does
have a problem in the car.  So far we've only taken him on short trips,
just to get him used to it (the longest was going home from the shelter)
but if one of us leaves the car, or if we (the three of us) don't leave
the car immediately after stopping, and also when we're driving (not as
frequent), he has an accident.  So out of 8 trips we've had 5 accidents.
He does go before we let him in the car, and he doesn't seem to realize
that he is actually doing it, because yesterday I looked back to see
how he was doing, and he was just sitting there like he was minding his
own business, and I noticed a puddle growing about his feet.  I got out
and walked him, but nothing happened.  My husband and I thought that
perhaps he associates the car with going to the pound, or else the
vibrations were too much for him, or maybe its something else.  Any
ideas?  Should we not take him in the car for a while?  Should we go
for even shorter drives (the others were 5-10 minutes)?  Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
DMS
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Re: SHOCK COLLARS (go ahead flame ME!!)
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:40:58 GMT

From article <1992Aug27.090151.19959@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, by macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA):
> In article <1992Aug26.181922.26572@newshost.lanl.gov>, crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) writes:
>> 
>> Can you name a single other tool that will allow you to make a
>> correction (not mete out punishment) at distances from feet to
>> hundreds of yards?  
> 
> 	As matter of fact, I can: THE VOICE.
> 
> 	And if your dog wont respond to it at such distances then take him back in close and begin again. 
> 
> 	PATIENCE.
> 
May patience stand you in good stead when your dog leaps the fence, runs
into a car, and is smashed in the road.  You obviously have dealt only with
"amenable" dogs.  Please re-read Terry's post about his dog and cars.  
Sometimes it is the ONLY answer.  And if your dog ignores you voice JUST
ONCE, you've taught him that he can win.  Bad news, that.  May patience
keep your dogs from snakes.  May patience keep your dogs from another dog.

I'm sorry, but my voice is NOT used to correct.  My voice is used to issue
a command.  If the dog ignores it, then the dog gets a correction.
Angry voices don't belong in dog training.

Have you put a shock collar on your hands yet?  Until you do that, please
refrain from these mindless responses.  I agree that the first example
you gave was a wonderful example of a brainless trainer ruining a
puppy.  But you don't seem to have read the other anecdotes that people
who have actually used shock collars have sent in.  Charlie's 
response about using electronics for proofing and correction was excellent
and true.  You should never use a shock collar in the teaching
phase, only in the corrective or proofing phases.  You obviously aren't
listening. 

I know.  We should all be patient and use our voices.  This voice
is saying, if you don't know what you're talking about, shut up.  Please.
(that's a whisper.)

> 	Amanda MacKinnell
> 
> 	"Cry havoc and let slip the Dogs of War"
> 
Tut tut.  Using dogs in war is cruel!  
-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Subject: Re: Recommendations...
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:32:04 GMT

In article <4652@d75.UUCP> vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com writes:
>I need an indoor/outdoor dog that is both a guard dog as well as 
>friendly.  This is my first dog.  I was looking forward to a 
>German Shepard but some people said that the dog will be hard to 
>train.
>
>Any recommendations...
>
>
Vijay,

If you can, try finding a book called "The Right Dog for You," by Dr.
Daniel Tortora (I'm not sure on the first name, sure on the last name).  
I don't agree with all his conclusions, but it is a book that makes you 
think about a lot of issues associated with dog ownership.  It also 
includes a questionnaire about your life sytle, personality, what you 
want in a dog, and then matches several breeds up with the answers.  
The only limitation is that the book was written in 1979 and he deals 
only with the breeds recognized by AKC at that time -- I think 123.  

People are probably getting tired of hearing about this book.  But we
found it helpful.

Good luck -- schalene
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: non-competitive shows (was Re: Show po
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:50:39 GMT
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

In <1992Sep3.161617.19605@ctr.columbia.edu> mcfadden@bellman.lanl.gov (Russell McFadden) writes:

>The other being that at any AKC sanctioned dog show the judge IS
>SUPPOSED TO BE comparing each dog to the breed standard. There is
>never supposed to be comparison between two dogs. I know this isn't
>always the case, but, it is nonetheless supposed to work that way.

When you have 30 dogs that all meet the standard, and only a winners
dog and winners bitch is picked out, I'm sorry, but they ARE
competing against each other.

>Maybe I'm being thick, but I really don't understand the point - any
>time anything is judged it is automatically a competition, isn't it?

Not necessarily.  Think of the obedience trials.  Leaving aside for
the moment that the three or four highest scores get ribbons, *every*
dog that makes the 170 point cut gets its leg toward the CD/CDX/UD.
In that sense, those legs are non-competitive with other dogs.  If you
meet the requirements, you get it.  I proposed a similar scheme for a
"standards" trial, where the judge assigns points to each dog based on
how it meets the standard, and every dog that gets enough points in an
acceptable distribution gets a point toward its "standard"-ship.

--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Terrell's Chocolate Deduction--Hershe (Labrador Retriever)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.

In loving memory of Betsy: 4-10-92 to 8-19-92...
From: smp@aquarius1.Berkeley.EDU (Susan M Painter)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: feeding times (was: New Puppy - Need Advice!!)
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:31:10 GMT
Reply-To: smp@aquarius1.Berkeley.EDU (Susan M Painter)

|> they are hungry, they get fat when they overeat.  If dogs are given access
|> to unlimited food, they soon learn that the food will be there when they
|> are hungry and they will eat when they are hungry.  Every instance I know
|> of when a dog has gone nuts and severely overeaten has been when they have
|> gotten into the stash they were usually kept out of.
|> 
|> 					Carlin

It is not always that easy.  Perhaps in general, dogs can be free fed.  But it
does not work for every dog.  We started with two cats that were always free
fed so when we got our dog we tried the same thing until we realized that
Toby was much rounder then a Bernese Mountain Dog should be.  I have never
seen a dog so oriented towards food in my life.  It would absolutely be
impossible to free feed him because the amount of food he feels he needs
would make him a very fat dog.  I think you can find the same problem in some
people.  They simply just eat too much and do not know when too stop to 
maintain a healthy body weight.  I feel that I must do this for my dog since
he will not do it for himself.  (Now if someone would just do it for me!)

Sue Painter
Minnesota
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: bonni@gath.cray.com (Bonni Ensminger)
Subject: Re: Thyroid studies
Originator: operator@gath
Reply-To: bonni@gath.cray.com (Bonni Ensminger)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 4 Sep 92 06:22:17 CDT


In article <1992Aug28.195623.11134@PacBell.COM>, mtlemmo@dcg.pacbell.com (Mark Lemmo) writes:
|> Does anyone know of where I can get my hands on any studies done invloving 
|> Thyroid levels in various breeds....
|> 
|> Thanks in advance..
|> 
|> Mark Lemmo
|> 
|> mtlemmo@dcg.pacbell.com
|> 
|> 
|> 
I would be very interested in this info, also, as my Giant Schnauzer has
been diagnosed with extremely low thyroid output, and is consequently on
daily medication for life.  Our vet said it was faily common for this to happen
in breeds that mature slowly.  Any comments?

Thanks!

Bonni
(And Baxtor, and Spanky)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: smm1@troy.uucp (22142-michelson)
Subject: Re: Recommendations...
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 16:25:17 GMT

In article <4652@d75.UUCP> vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com writes:
>I need an indoor/outdoor dog that is both a guard dog as well as 
>friendly.  This is my first dog.  I was looking forward to a 
>German Shepard but some people said that the dog will be hard to 
>train.

Please ellaborate on what you mean by "guard" dog. What functions do you
see a guard dog fulfilling? Barking? Attacking (I hope not!)? How much
time are you planning to spend training the dog? Will you attend an
obedience class (I hope so!)? What do you mean by "friendly?" What situations
do you see the dog in where he should be friendly, and what situations
do you see him in where he should be "guarding" something?




_______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Michelson                |   Paying tolls is like throwing money out
Bell Communications Research   |   the window.
smm1@troy.cc.bellcore.com      |
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: SHOCK COLLARS (go ahead flame ME!!)
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:45:53 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA) writes:

[snip]

	Have you put a shock collar on your hands yet?  Yes I have, I
	was given the collar when the trainer (abuser?) was "training"
	the Cocker. I would not class the experience as enjoyable,
	while not painful, . all the same I would not want one around
	my neck while I was trying to understand what was happening.

PLease *do* bear in mind that the skin on human hand is a *lot* more
sensitive than the skin on the dog's neck. This means that what you
feel will be worse than that which the dog feels. I had thought that
collers were awful things. Until I tried one on myself, and then I
found that it's no big deal. I'd rather get a belt through the hand
than a jerk from a check coller, I'm sure.
					
I've used a coller on a number of occasions when the handler's voice
does not control the dog, or when it is impossible. For example, a dog
which had taken to barking for hours during it's handler's absence
cannot be corrected by the owner's voice - the owner simply isn't
there. Four applications of a coller (at the lowest setting, too) cured
the dog in four days. Another dog I know had taken to coursing hares.
It was cured in *one* day after being permitted to course a number of
hares (ie it wasn't told *not* to). The dog realised that coursing
hares brought on a belt from the coller. Therefore don't chase them.
Another dog was cured of "selective long range deafness" over two
weekends. She now comes in when she is called, no more of this "I can't
hear you" nonsense.

IMO, collers most definately have their place in *curing* problems. I
don't consider them necessary for normal training, though.

--Jonathan
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: rec.pets.dogs
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:31:50 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: news@jade.tufts.edu

So what do you think, are beagles untrainable?  I'm not talking about training
for shows, just basic obedience.  I know that they are most certainly not
stupid, but they are a)nosey, which makes it hard to keep their attention, and
b)stubborn, the downside of which is obvious.  In the past, obedience hasn't
seemed too important to me, but circumstances have made it imperative that
my dog obey me (for his own safety, and for good neighbor relations).  
Heeling is the most important idea that I would like to teach him.  I've 
had some success w/a choke collar, but the lessons don't seem to stick in
his head from walk to walk.  Teaching him to drop things that he has picked
up in his mouth is something I would like to do, also, but again, I can't
get him to consistantly obey me.  If you have any ideas, please let me  
know.  Nothing too "cruel" (ie. frightening to him, aggressive), I'm
a softie. 
     I guess I've been posting a lot of basic questions to the group.  Al-
though I've had dogs my whole life, I've never had to care for one on my
own.  I don't really have any dog "experts" in my circle of friends, so 
thanks for all the advice.
      Gretchen
         & Spenser (bowoooo!)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: non-competitive shows (was Re: Show points and the )
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:25:05 GMT

In article <5124.83.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer)  writes:
= 
= CB>See?  This is what I was talking about when I suggested a non-
= CB>competitive conformation ring.  It just wouldn't happen.
= 
= What would be the point? Why would we even bother to show our dogs, if
= there was no chance of winning? If we just want to show people our dog,
= we could go to the park.

The very same point as the AKC Hunting Tests (are the herding tests
run the same way?):  The dogs are compared with a standard.  After
all, isn't that what bench shows are *supposed* to be all about?
Which dog best compares with the breed standard?  What's  wrong
with also simply having shows or classes which simply judge the
dogs against the breed standard?  Not as much ego stroking as one
where "My dog's better than your dog" but not valueless by any
means.

As I said in an earlier post, I missed the beginning of this thread
but my interpretation of "noncompetitive" is not that all you are
doing is parading your dog around (as at "the park") but that the
dog would be compared with the breed standard.  Perhaps if judges
were not permitted to compare dogs with each other (often according
to their own tastes to the detriment of the breed standard) they
would pay more attention to the breed standard, eh?


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: AS.VGS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Victor Sosa)
Subject: Mastiff query
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:13:30 GMT



Can anyone point me toward a good source of information on Mastiffs?
Also, does anyone know of any Mastiff breeders within in the San
Francisco area?

Feel free to send mail as well as post.

Victor
From: kika.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Muzzle Training?
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:21:13 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

emily@azariah.tamu.edu (Emily Glass) writes:

> 
> >I hope you guys aren't serious!  Have you ever heard of crate training??
> >If you leave a dog alone with a muzzle on and it vomits, it could die.  I 
> >work at a vet clinic and we never ever leave a dog alone with a muzzle on, 
> >even if it's a viscious dog.  There must be some good reason for that!  How
> >about obedience training your dogs and treating them a bit more humanely!
> >
> 
> 
> Aren't there diffent kinds of muzzles?  I swear that I remember seeing
> pictures of some that allow the dog to open its mouth and pant (or vomit,
> if so be the case), but form a barrier between the dogs mouth and 
> anything it wants to bite.
> 

Yes this one allows him to pant and drink water and anything
else he would like to do *except* chew.  He's got the run of
the house for exercise (we did not want to limit him to a
crate and leaving him outside in the yard would be more
dangerous than anything (even though it's fenced in).  Several
dogs in this area have died as a result of biting frogs and
having their necks swell up from the poison.  Also we have
scorpions, snakes, racoons, possums and who knows what else
in this area.

I did not receive any information on muzzle training as a 
result from my question.  On the package it says used by
trainers and breeders to train dogs not too chew.  Well
I tried it..  One week on, one week off and it worked.  He
(so far, it's only been a week) has not chewed anything
other than his massive amounts of toys and has been great!

I *extremely* resent the fact that you think that I would
even consider doing something inhumane to my dog.  Obedience
training is no problem at all with our dog - by everyone
who has ever met him, they all say that he is exceptionally
intelligent and well behaved.  But it's hard to train a dog
to not chew on something that isn't "his" while you are away
from work.  Pointing at it afterwards and saying "No, bad dog!"
just wasn't cutting the mustard, even though we'd give him
much praise when "all was well" when we got home.  And 
putting everything out of his reach doesn't really help
in the long run when he may have to stay a night at a
friends house if we go away.

So in taking all of these things into consideration and
having reached the last straw by losing a photo album of
the best time of my life to the jaws of an 83 pound puppy
who got a temper tanrum because we "left" him alone for
4 whole hours (we come home for lunch and exercise him
and spend time with him for an hour), *that* was MY choice.

--- and it's worked so far.

Please do not send me "crate" training stories.  No flames, but
it's just something that I do not believe in, no matter how
many people say how "wonderful" it is.
From: wade@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Inexpensive and safe puppy toys
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:50:30 GMT

In an article, sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine) writes:
|> 
|> Does anyone have any suggestions for inexpensive and safe puppy toys? They
|> need to be inexpensive because I will need enough toys for 9 golden retriever
|> puppies from the time that they're old enough for toys until they go to their
|> new homes.

Since you will undoubtedly have homes selected (though not nesc. matched
with each puppy) for the pups before they are old enough for toys, I
suggest doing what our breeder did - have each future owner select and
bring a suitable toy (saves you the expense) to be shared by the entire
litter.  When it is time for the pups to go to their new homes, each
owner takes "their" toy along with their puppy.  That way each puppy gets
a familiar toy to take to its new home.  The toy has the smell of all its
littermates and its mom all over it.  This worked out well for our Golden pup.
The only problem may be informing the candidate owners about suitable
toys, hopefully other respondents to your query will have input on that.
(we used a small stuffed bear, which though not durable enough for a full 
size dog amazingly lasted until we took our puppy home.  We still bring 
it out as a special treat and he goes nuts over it).

Wade Blomgren
wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:33:52 GMT

In article <13432@pogo.wv.tek.com>
    daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
 
>In conclusion, I personally feel that if a dog is in a specific category (eg:
>herding, hunting, ratting), then it is irresponsible to breed solely for
>aesthetics.  Thus a terrier which can't rat, or a Setter which cannot hunt,
>should not be rewarded for mere aesthetic conformation.  This is why I would
>assert that no dog should be able to earn either a champion status, or a best
>in breed (and definitely not a best in show) unless it has excelled in the
>working requirements of its breed.
 
Actually, I think the "best" solution would be for the AKC to not
register pups born to a sire and dam that do not have their titles.
Since this would "protect" the breed from the things I fear happening
by recommending it for things other than it's original purpose, I
would no longer have any complaints against it (even if they just
wanted a pet).  This should also make Liza happy, since the titles
required could include something along the lines of a certain number
of points in the conformation ring as well (although I still feel that
an obiediance requirement would be silly since that is already required
of dogs that can compete in the field).  A requirement for a Canine
Good Citizenship might not be a bad idea though.
 
I would imagine that a set of requirements would have to be developed
for each breed (or at least each breed type).  But I don't think
that would be such a big deal, that's what breed clubs are for
after all.  The biggest problem would be getting an agreement among
the different factions of people within the breed club.
The show people would want a CH, the obiendance people would want
a UD, the field trailers would want a FC, and the hunting test people
would want a MH.
 
My sample requirement for Labs:
   a JH
   1/3 of the points required for a CH
   CGC award
 
Not too difficult, but it's still *something* that means that the people
that are breeding are TRYING to improve the breed.  I would require the
full JH title because it really is pretty easy.  Of course, a more
difficult title (FC, AFC, SH, MH) would certainly be acceptable in it's
place.
 
PS:  wouldn't this also take a big chunk out of the puppy mill
     problem too?)
 
But, since the AKC makes it's money by registering litters and dogs,
I just don't see this happening anytime soon.
 
 
Comments?
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 7 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |