HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco)
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 04:02:04 GMT

mgb@ocf.berkeley.edu (M.G. Bertulfo) writes...
>>I would have to agree with George that we really shouldn't take one "part"
>>of a whole and generalize it's qualities to that whole--in this case we
>>are talking about Filipinos.
>> 
godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>I wasn't, I was simply stating a fact - nothing more, nothing less.
>--- some stuff deleted
>... Secondly, there is
>nothing wrong in extrapolating from a sample of people to a population as
>a whole - in physics and science as a whole this is a perfectly valid
>statistical process.  A generalisation is not automatically invalid by
>virtue of the fact that it is a gerneralisation, it is only invalid
>if the sampling is flawed.  And of course if I say " Japanese people
>are polite" then it doesn't mean that every single Japanese is always
>polite in every possible circumstance, not would anyone try to interpret
>it that way.  Thirdly, and lastly, I was not, in this instance, making a
>generalisation in any case.
>
   Inductive proof requires more rigor and conclusions based on
   sampled data are usually stated with a statistical qualification.
   You have done neither of these.  

   As to whether you are making a generalization or not ... I still
   contend that you are.

   By the way, are you originally from the United Kingdom?
From: gustilo@pop-server.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: Angeles City - Clark Air Base
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:13:14 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct3.052051.13454@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,
tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco) wrote:

>    I am not familiar with the term.  What are honeycoes?

wild guess: honey ko (my honey).

could be a reference to servicemen by the prostitutes.

Standard Disclaimer:
  I am not responsible for comments that I make after 3:00 AM or after five
cups of coffee, whichever comes first.
From:  ( )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Cease Fire in Quezon Province
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:39:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino


	MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- President Fidel Ramos ordered the defense
chief Friday to heed a request by a popular communist field commander to
suspend military operations so that he can find his wife, believed
wounded or killed in a recent gunbattle.
	Gregorio Rosal, head of a unit operating in Quezon province just
south of Manila, has asked authorities to temporarily halt an offensive
in his area to allow him to verify the whereabouts of his wife, Rosario.
	A presidential palace statement said Rosal's request was relayed to
Ramos by a congressman from the rebel leader's region.
	``The president, for humanitarian considerations...instructed
Secretary (Renato) de Villa to act on the request,'' the statement said.
	The woman, who is also a guerrilla, was believed to have been wounded
in a gunbattle with government troops two days ago in Laguna province
south of the capital but managed to escape.
	Military officials denied having her in their custody and the rebels
said they could not locate her, leading to speculation she could have
died.
	Ramos, West Point-trained former armed forces chief, has offered to
peacefully end a 23-year Marxist insurgency spearheaded by the 13,000-
strong New People's Army. Both sides agreed to formal peace talks early
last month but the process has been stymied by a dispute on where to
hold the negotiations.
	The rebels want the talks held in a third country while Ramos insists
they should take place in the Philippines because the insurgency is an
internal problem.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 19:39:25 CDT
From: <U30067@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: pelikula title

quoted from Pugad Baboy 3 (without permission

suggested titles for Pinoy movies:

Anak ni Baby Ama!

Utol ni Ben Tumbling!

Pamangkin ng Bayaw ni Nardong Putik!

(Bang! Pow! Tadyak! Ratatatatatatat!!!)
Are there really titles like this?  teddy P.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco)
Subject: Re: Laurence Godfrey
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:57:15 GMT

>>J. Tanchoco writes
>>   My limited association with UK PhDs leads me to conclude that
>>   most are snooty and racist.  What is your reaction to this 
>>   generalization and stereotyping statement?
> 
>L. Godfrey responds
>My reaction is that you do not know how to argue coherently.
> 
   You can be the debater or the judge but you shouldn't
   arrogate both.  I want you to know, though, that I find your
   statement above very patronizing.

>L. Godfrey continues
>--- some stuff deleted
>If I am a snooty racist, as you suggest, 

   If you read my statement carefully, you will see that I never 
   suggested that you as an individual is a snooty racist.  I was 
   just making a point about generalizations and stereotyping 
   statements.  Your reaction, however, is typical of reactions
   of persons who are confronted by such stereotyped statements.
   Persons in this newgroup are no different.

>L. Godfrey continues
>then I am probably the only snooty racist in England who is 
>a jew, married to an Asian, a member of our left-wing
>socialist party, a past victim of racial discrimination and 
>who chooses to live and work in Asia rather than the west.  
>I wonder if you know what a real racist is?  Is everyone who 
>says anything critical about a group of people a racist?  Only 
>if the criticism is invalid?  If I say "Thais are nice people" 
>is that racist?  If I say Germans are agressive and arrogant, 
>is that racist?  If I say "jews have big noses", is that racist?

   I have always admired people like yourself who have done
   things beyond what is ordinary and have extended
   themselves beyond their own culture.  The only thing that I
   ask is that you be more sensitive to our feeling of national
   pride.  

   This will be my last post on this subject.  Thanks for being
   very candid and for revealing a little bit about yourself
   in this brief dialogue.

   --- J Tanchoco

Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: mrd55864@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Servant of Christ)
Subject: Ateneo
Summary: any ateneans?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:44:29 GMT
Keywords: school, manila, ateneo, student

Hi, ang pangalan ko ay Michael DeGuzman. Pumunta ako sa Us noong
December 1983.  Sa pilipibnas, nag attend ako sa Ateneo.  Hangang
4th grade lang ang na acomplishe ko.  Kung sinoba diyan ay nang galing
sa ateneo puede ba sulatan mo ako.  Ang E-mail ko ay
gooseman@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu or mrd55864@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu.
Salamat po.  Gusto ko lang malaman kung ano na ngya nagn
nangyari sa manga l kaklase ko.  thanks

Michael DeGuzman
From: jskirk01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: Clark AB and . . .
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:51:43 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <Oct06.212230.12183@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, 
mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
> 
> Jim Kirk writes:
>> You'll see that they will survive just fine without our money.  Give the
>> Filipinos some credit.  Don't you have any notion of how well they were
>> doing economically before the long Marcos fiasco?
> 
> I disagree. Do you realize how hard it is to go from 3rd World to just 
> 2nd World status?

The Filipinos I know give me confidence.  Nonetheless, I really don't equate
success with escaping 3rd World status.  And you and I haven't earned the right
to define success for the Philippines.

 
>> If our economy in the US continues in its present trend, how much do you 
>> think your daughter or sister will bring?  When we need money "to survive," 
>> will you approve of your daughter's sale to a Japanese or German tourist?
> 
> 
> Listen, American didn't create the bar scene around the American bases. 
> Maybe we the G.I.s
> are wrong for screwing around but remember, if the P.I. didn't want these 
> nightclubs and
> these bargirls infesting their country , they would've outlawed.  Did you 
> know that dancing
> topless is illegal in Angeles?  If they made that illegal, why didn't 
> they just outlaw
> the whole damn prostitution scene! Why?  Because they need our money and 
> the girls need a
> way out of the Philippines.  Blame the Philippine government for allowing 
> this to go on!
> 

Still sounds to me like you're trying to ease your conscience.  And I'm not so
concerned in this case with law as with morality.

I'm always amazed by what I hear from U.S. servicemen.  It's as though you know
an entirely different country and people than the Philippines and Filipinos I
know.


> P.S.  Is that your real name?  Cool!~

Yes, and if I *were* a captain, I'd assign you to a Filipino family to do
chores until you gained a broader perspective.  :-)

Anyway, I wish you the best.

Jim Kirk


P.S.  After reading Stan Macasieb's even-handed post, I think I'll try to 
contain my indignation and resume lurking on this group, at least until Mitch 
writes again.  :-)

Kung pupuwede, papalitan ko ang subject heading nito.  Nakakahiya, eh.
Laging nasa subject line ang pangalan ko!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: R14758@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Ruel Torres)
Subject: Re: Dallas meeting
Organization: Motorola
Date: 2 Oct 1992 09:22:58 MST

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario)
Subject: Dallas meeting
Reply-To: candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 13:11:42 GMT

[stuff deleted]

How about Austin???   Rowie Torres
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: spcberto@psyche.spc.uchicago.edu (Robert Osterlund)
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
Summary: Philippines one of 7 poorest nations?  No!
Organization: University of Chicago, SSPPCC
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:33:14 GMT

In article <1a2uboINNq6l@agate.berkeley.edu> mgb@ocf.berkeley.edu (M.G. Bertulfo) writes:
>  ..... Second, you must also know that the Philippines is one of the seven
>poorest nations in the world....
Wrong.  I can name at least seven nations in East and Southeast Asia alone
where the per capita income is lower than that for the Philippines (Vietnam,
Laos, Cambodia, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Mongolia, the PRC, ...).  There are
several times seven African nations with lower per capita incomes, and 
some of the Latin American countries (especially those in the Caribbean,
like Haiti) are also poorer.

No, the Philippines is by no means one of the "seven poorest nations in
the world."  Where did you get that impression?

Incidentally, in the late 40s and early 50s, the Philippines was second
richest after Japan in Asia.  Since then, the country has dropped way down
(but hardly to seventh from last in the whole world).  Sayang!!

Bob Osterlund
Social Science & Public Policy Computing Center
University of Chicago
From:  ( )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: PACC Agents Kill Four Drug Pushers
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:45:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino


	MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- Members of a presidential anti-crime task
force Friday gunned down four suspected drug dealers, including two
policemen, in a shootout in the Makati financial district, police said.
	Makati police chief, Col. Remy Macaspac, said a member of the
Presidential Anti-Crime Commission (PACC) and three passengers aboard a
passing bus were wounded in the clash on the South Superhighway which
tied up traffic for hours.
	Macaspac said those killed were a lawyer, a civilian and two
policemen who are brothers. The four were in a car which was chased by
PACC agents after receiving a tip the occupants were carrying banned
drugs, Macaspac said.
	He added the government operatives ordered the car's driver to stop
but one of the suspects opened fire, prompting the authorities to shoot
back.
	The government operatives recovered two pistols from the slain
policemen and found 2.2. pounds of metamphetamine hydrochloride, a
prohibited drug locally known as ``shabu'' or ``ice'' in the car, police
said.
From: jjimenez@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: Jim Kirk, Clark + Explanation
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:16:04 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Oct06.132031.16438@bnr.ca>, candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario) writes:
> 
> Jim,
> 
>      I wouldn't normally respond on the net, but I have no e-mail address.
> 
>      Yes, I too find it offensive that as Americans we exploited the Filipinos.
> With all respect to Mitch, I find the post offensive.  I did find that in the
> P.I. the people were leading a simple, family centered life and there seemed 
> to be this mystique about America that I couldn't understand.  I had lunch with
> Joel (who appears on the net) and we discussed the difference in the two societies
> and I, quite frankly, would love to return to the P.I. and leave the stress and 
> frantic pace behind.  Now if I can only convert my wife as she's never been 
> there.....
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave
From: m-muyot@uiuc.edu (Maria Muyot)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: Honeycoe, CLARK, + explanation
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:26:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: chang.m-muyot-061092151056
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: Dept. of Statistics

In article <Oct05.204814.46527@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
mk568652@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mitchell Kotler) wrote:
> 
> 
> Let me get something straight here.
> 
> 
> I don't mean offense to Filipinos or their country, I think it's a great place,the scenery, etc.
> But I can't see it as a "exploitation" of people. I read somewhere that the base pours in
> one million dollars DAILY into the economy at Angeles, not to mention Subic.  


This may be true, but the money wasn't "poured" in for nothing. It wasn't
just
given, I believe it was in exchange for services rendered by Filipinos, on
or
off the base. Have you looked into how much Filipino base workers are paid?


Yes, we
> servicemen "serviced" the local women but anyone,  whether American , 
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>British, or Autralian,


Gee, I'd hate to ask what you think of Filipina women if you equate them
with bargirls, or worse, vehicles that need "servicing."


> 
> Maybe I shouldn't have posted my previous article in this newgroup, I'm sorry.  But to all you 
> young Filipino/Americans out there, I think you should know that these things exist, at least up until
> November.

Most Filipinos do know that it exists, it doesn't mean we have to like it
or put up with it. As a Filipina, I am truly offended by your
"explanation."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: gustilo@pop-server.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: TV Notes
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:43:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

aplogies to those who may not have access to these shows:

C-SPAN: President Aquino spoke at The Harvard Uninersity JFK School of
Government about her term in office. She also took questions for ca. 30
minutes. She spoke on Monday Sept. 28 but I saw the tape delayed broadcast
Tuesday Sept. 29 on C-SPAN2 at about 9:30 pm EST.

Tabloid TV: Inside Edition and Current Affair both showed segments (Sept
29, 1992) on a Filipina- American US Army spec, who served in Desert Storm,
came back to Ft. Hood, TX and was subsequently subjected to sexual
harassment by two of her male sergeants. Her name was Alexis Colon nee
Martinez. She was born in this country although her parents are from the
Phils. She filed a sexual harassment claim with her superior and in turn
was accused of sexually harassing the two male sergeants and conduct
unbecoming a soldier. The strain was too much for her to bear and she
committed suicide after her charges were turned on her. Congressman Tony
Lantos, from California?, is helping her family get to the bottom of this
matter. They have also filed a suit against the Army.

The Army, upon investigating the sexual harassment charge, said that in
fact she was sexually harassed by the two men but attributed her suicide to
personal and marital problems. 

corrections on datails welcome.


Standard Disclaimer:
  I am not responsible for comments that I make after 3:00 AM or after five
cups of coffee, whichever comes first.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Lea Salonga
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:31:37 GMT


So, who out there in the Left Coast went to see Lea in concert last weekend?
How was it?

Also, hopefully you caught her interview on "Inside Word" on E! this past
week. It was actually pretty good. Got the performance on tape, although
not the interview. It was during the Bears games and I was just flipping
around the remote when I stumbled into it.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  1992 Election Ballot
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  For President-
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  ___ George Bush (GOP)
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |  ___ Bill Clinton (Dem)
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |  ___ H Ross Perot (Weenie)
******************************************************************************
From: tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
Date: 26 Sep 92 18:08:00 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

105@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:
>>>It just goes to show that there
>>>are good and bad in all cultures.  This incident just happened to
>>>get publicized a little more.  
>>>--Keith
>> 
tanchoco@mars.ecn.purdue.edu (J Tanchoco) writes...
>>   I'm glad to see you point this out.  I would also like to
>>   add that there are people who make prejudicial comments
>>   based on this kind of publicity.
>
godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>but I have to say in all honesty that I have never encountered
>such high densities of dishonesty and agressive crookedness as when I have
>visited the Philippines.  I say that from the perspective of one who has
>visited and lived in many countries, and travelled a great deal in Asia.
>
   Your statement above is the kind of generalization that often
   leads to stereotyping.  I would suggest that you be more concrete
   on this claim.  But if your experience is similar to mine, my
   casual encounters with the local people and what my close friends
   from the country tell me can be two different things.  
   
   What I find interesting is the inclination of some Filipinos to be 
   more critical of fellow Filipinos.  If there is any kind of 
   generalization that I am willing to accept, it is that we have 
   an affinity to washing our dirty linen in public.  Just look
   at what happened to the LLWS incident.  The discussion quickly
   deteriorated to questions on the ethical and moral standards
   of Filipinos.  Perhaps our worst enemy is us.
From: grtorlba@sumax.seattleu.edu (George Torralba)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
Date: 26 Sep 92 18:58:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.5207
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

In article <25SEP199220095917@sscvx1.ssc.gov> godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov
(LAURENCE GODFREY) writes: 
>
>Well now I know some good Filipinos, in fact I am in love with one of them
>(my wife), but I have to say in all honesty that I have never encountered
>such high densities of dishonesty and agressive crookedness as when I have
>visited the Philippines.  I say that from the perspective of one who has
>visited and lived in many countries, and travelled a great deal in Asia.
>
>Laurence

So what's your point, Laurence.  Densities are just that, densities.  If
you're trying to imply that they represent the whole then I say BULL SHIT!!!

George
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Honeycoe, CLARK, + explanation
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:01:47 GMT

You know, sometimes I sit through a discussion/argument and can't help
but feel that both sides are correct in their assessments, but won't
ever come to some agreement.

Exploitation runs in many ways, especially in the case of the former 
US bases in the Philippines. I can tell all of you that it wasn't
isolated over there. It today even exists in the provinces. 

My dad's hometown has become an important port-of-call for merchant
vessels lately. The shoreline drive used to be a very pleasant area;
the local university sits right on the shore. He used to be able
to walk down the street at evening without being bothered as a
young person. Now, he can't walk through that area with his barkada
w/o being stopped by the call girls who now ply their trade along the
shore. I walked down that drive one evening with him and couldn't
help noticing the loud disco music and free-flowing liquor coming out
of the flashy building down the street. Or the sihlouette movement
of a couple of people in a hotel room frequented by scantily clad
Filipinas and their male companions. 

Somehow, someway, the catalysts for this "vicious cycle" need to be
removed. Maybe the closing of Subic and Clark are good symbolic
first steps. In general, though, some way of giving those people
a good reason to make money other than lying on their backs needs
to be addressed. As long as prostitution makes more cash than an
honest job, there will always be desperate families pushing their
very young girls to the whorehouses, to be taken advantage by
everyone. 

The closing of the bases could either signal the turning point
of the Philippines' drive to become truly independent, or
just another blip in a continuing pattern of exploitation and
heartbreak. It's time we put the bases to rest and go on with
the rest of history. There's a lot of work yet to do, yes?

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  1992 US Election Ballot
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  For President-
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  ___ George Bush (GOP)
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |  ___ Bill Clinton (Dem)
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |  ___ H Ross Perot (Weenie)
******************************************************************************