From: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: quibbles and a poem ...
Summary: quibbles
Keywords: pontificating
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:17:32 PST
Reply-To: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us




A few quibbles about Marek's response to my comment on his comments.
He continues (look out I'm gonna say it again marek) pontificating:
 
> [JJ] misuses the word "pontificates" and commits other misdemeanors:

So you won't admit to even a smidgen of pompousity in your reply to
keymaster and your evaluation of the poem? How interesting ...

BTW, if I've 'misused' pontificating then you've misused 'misdemeanors' 
and we can quibble over license and shading til the resurrection of Poe ...

> I certainly did not imply that my contributions to rap are artless 
> in comparison to "Ode". Thanks for allowing me to make this explicit. :)

You're welcome ... I find it a bit disingenuous though, that you'd 
only cite YOUR work as the artfull 'love' contributions to compare 
to "Ode .." on RAP. It lacks generosity and borders on self inflation. 
Ah, what a wonderful thing, the ego ... 

> Do you alledge that [2live Crew] are undercover fund-raisers for NOW or
> something?

I allege that they are propagandists ... only slightly entertaining 
(and only to a mob desensitized to misery) and completely devoid of 
art. Blunt ... does not equal honest ...
 
> One of these days I will produce a list on rap that starts with -8 and see
> if anyone complains.

I wasn't complaining ... just asking if you were being subtle ...

> Why is the poem not honest?

It lacks honesty in that it pretends to, but so obviously does not, care ...
Now maybe the lack of humanity in the main character (I) is what is most 
important to the author. If so, I've missed the boat again .. a 
common occurrence .. but then the question becomes "should the 
audience care for a work with no redeeming features or characters?"
(this is much of my complaint with Bukowski (2live Crew as well))

> There is no accounting for tastes.  Vivid to me.

point noted ... individualism is important ...

> It's a lovely statement.  Think of it as the sacrament thingee in a mass.

No! YOU think of it that way ... I'll think of it as a superfluous
statement when viewed in this context. 

> You wouldn't want to go around editing liturgy, would you?  I'd hate to
> see what you would do with Sunday service...

This debating tactic is unbecoming ... you can do better ... 

> I am growing in my conviction (sort of like in facial hair) that you guys
> out there JUST DON'T GET IT.  

I'll make a deal with you ... you protect my individualism and I'll 
do the same for you ... "YOU GUYS" is a foul seasoning that I had given you
credit, in the past, for being intelligent enough not to salt your 
offerings with ... pray let's not start now.

> Tenderness is a matter of mystery achievement.

This, in my estimation, is an example of pontificating ...

> You need to work very hard, say your mantras, and see more and more in the
> world around you, with a quickening eye, to see more and more tenderness.

And this as well ... got your certificate of tenderness from 
Tassajaran Monks did you? Monastic life and computer science, now 
there's a combo that's going to produce tender mercies for you.

> This poem is tender.  But I can't make you see it.  

And you can't explain it to me either, except with mantras and
mysticism ... which makes the statement suspect ... in the extreme.
   "Have faith chillens, I have TALKED to god!"
     "Yeah, right, whatever you say preacher ... now, how much is 
      this 'Virgin Mary' Hoola Hoop?"

> Your putdown of Bukowski is yours to exercise, nonetheless it throws me for
> a loop, because I thought we agreed on important things. :)  That's ok,
> I'll live.

So Bukowski's important to you? Why? Rather, what is it about his work 
that would make you recommend him? Or make you think that my 
disliking him was a disagreement with you on 'important things'?


        JJWebb

another poem?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        1971

On my journey north through Bedlam Boro
I thought I saw an eagle.
But he was up there pretty high ...
I mean, 
He could have been a crow.
And as I watched him watching me
He flew
In ever widening circles.
I got the feeling that he knew
Something important that I didn't know,
And so I asked him,
"Bird!" 
(It seems I'm always shouting upward)
"Bird,
Can you tell me anything fantastic?"
Now it may have been,
A convoluted wind,
But
(and I know this sounds a little drastic)
I could have sworn I heard him answer,
            "No ... "


from  "Appalachian Canticles"  by JJWebb
          A Jarus Book, copyright (c) 1979

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