HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: Desi friends
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: UMass-Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:52:04 GMT

To: 
In article <bjag-270792123108@owl.ls.nwu.edu> bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:

   In article <1992Jul21.140936.5716@iscsvax.uni.edu>,
   shangari9701@iscsvax.uni.edu wrote:
   > Who is not against the arranged wedding "bull shit"? Excuse me for
   > the profane language. I would like to get some response from anyone. Their
   > likes and dislikes about the ARRANGED WEDDING..  

   I'm not against arranged weddings if no one involved (the woman, man, and
   the parents) all decided it was the best decision for them and there was no
   coercion involved. What's wrong with someone deciding that they prefer the
   arranged marriage scene to the single's dating scene?

   If your parents don't force you to marry someone you don't want to, or make
   you behave like someone you're not in order to hook the right guy, there's
   nothing wrong with having family assistance in finding the person you
   marry. 

   I haven't had an arranged marriage (nor considered one). But why shouldn't
   people be allowed to make their own decision about whether they want their
   marriaged arranged? If culture, religion, and language are particularly
   important to them, it might be hard to find someone who matches those
   characteristics without some kind of assistance.

   Needless to say I also think people should be allowed to find their own
   mate, if they want to, and that by no means should parents force _their_
   religion culture or language on their children's choice of a mate. But if
   the child agrees, there's nothing wrong with arranged marriages. 

   Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu



yes i agree with Bharathi (spelled it correctly didn't i?? :) ). If the man and
the woman involved agree then there is nothing wrong with arranged marriages. 
The only situation i can think of in which i would be opposed to the idea of an
arranged marriage would be one in which either party was forced into it by the
respective family. i had a friend who met her future husband through her 
parents, they went out for a while (about 5 months) got engaged and married 
another 4 months later. they are both happy. sometimes arranged marriages work
and sometimes they dont, just like love marriages do, but an arranged marriage
has IMO a slight advantage that some commonality has already been found 
between the two people, while in a love marriage you have to find that.


just putting in my $0.02

peace

#include <stdDisclaimer.h>

--
===============================================================================
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi    | University of Massachusets at Lowell, CS Dept.
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu  | US Mail:  754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |           Lowell, MA. 01850-1804
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Serving The Society
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:27:12 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:

> But that interpretation of "serve oneself" is focusing on ends. That is,
> the interpretation focuses on answering the question "why serve?"
> Of course for happiness, joy, satisfaction. If you get your happiness
> from "serving others," that is your way, your choice, your selfishness.
> And you are free to choose that.

Suppose I was at an airport. I saw some old woman struggling to carry
a heavy load up the escalator. I carried it instead to "help" her out.
Now, this made me feel good about myself. So, my act was a "selfish" act.
If I continued to relax in the lounge chair to enjoy a good rest, while
the old woman struggled, that would also be "selfish". However, in the
former selfishness, while I made myself happy, I ALSO made someone else
happy.

> Not "why?" The trouble with serving others is that YOU presume what 
> is best for others. You impose your sense of "what is happiness" on others. 
                          ^^^^^^
No, I can always offer "service". If it conflicts with the notion of
happiness of the intended benificiary, I don't have to press it.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai Banarji)
Subject: alt.culture.kerala-a footnote
Originator: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:29:10 GMT

		Alt.culture.kerala-a footnote

  There seems to be a common miscoception that Kerala is 100% literate
and that means that everyone there can read and write. This is incorrect.
  The government never said that the state is 100% literate. The official
phrase is "total literacy" where 90% of the population above the age of
8 is literate. A town, district or state is declared to be "totally
literate" when 90% of the target population is literate.
  The first town to be declared totally literate was Kottayam in around 1988.
The first district to achieve this distinction was Ernakulam, while the
state as a whole achieved this about a year ago.
  Since then a few districts in other states like Bengal have also been
declared totally literate, as well as the union territory of Pondicherry.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Views of Whites
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:59:08 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Jul23.192412.14072@Firewall.Nielsen.Com>,
mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota) writes:
|>From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
|>Subject: Re: Views of Whites
|>Date: 23 Jul 92 19:24:12 GMT
|>
|>In article <4294@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|>>Basically as has been pointed out by a number
|>>of readers, we're a "model minority" group (BTW, I like that description).
|>
|>It sucks! Model of what? A condominium? I think, any stereotyping from
|>within is as bad as from outside. So what happens if some one falls
|>off this model? Straight to the gutters with the ``non-model''
|>minorities? 

Stereotyping is bad, but its a part of human nature that is most difficult
to supress. What I believe one should strive to do is to keep an open mind
when one meets a person for the first time. When I meet a white for the first
time, I act somewhat differently than when I meet a desi, just like I act
differently when I meet a deadhead versus meeting a yuppie. People generalize 
and categorize and that's part of human nature. 

BTW, I certainly don't consider myself the stereotypical desi, but I 
probably would place myself loosely in the "model minority" category.
This is a description invented by someone to describe the way whites view
desis.

|>>However having said that, I still don't understand many desi's prejudices
|>>particularly towards african americans. It's prevalent in both desi
immigrants
|>>and desi americans, although more so in the former.
|>>Ron
|>
|>More so in the former? Surely, that is not a ``model group,'' is it?
|>Discrmination or racial prejudice exists at the individual level, no
|>matter what their color is. Having said that, I want to effectively
|>undo the ambivalence in your mind: ``some outsiders are more racial than
|>some insiders.'' This is the new form of racism, seen through the old
|>crystal ball called patriotism. 

Look, this is the impression that I have of the desis that I've met. 
Individuals obviously differ from the stereotype, but I THINK that 
most FOREIGNERS have a poor view of african americans. Now if you want to
call me a racist, that's certainly your prerogative. But to say that 
desi americans do not differ from desi immigrants is in my opinion not
true.

|>
|>Murthy
                           
I'm not sure if your point about racism and patriotism has to do with 
desis or just with generalizing about people. Maybe you can clarify this
point.

Ron
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij)
Subject: Parental racism (was Re: Lighten up people!)
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, California
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:36:16 GMT

In article <4432@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:

>Now for something completely different. How do your parents view race 
>relations within the US, this is mostly directed towards those who've 
>grown up here. My folks have sympathy with african americans, but definitely
>no empathy for them. In fact, they get on my case when I talk down about 
>white society, and have quite a different perspective towards white society
>than I do. I have a few ideas about why, but I'd like to hear what other 
>people think first.
>
>Ron

My parents are definitely not of the united-world, one brotherhood mold.
They are prejudiced to some degree against Hispanic and Jewish people 
and definitely against African Americans.

Why?  Many societies favor the fair over the dark, and India is no
exception.  Perhaps it's a subconscious association of white with cleanliness
and black with impurity.  It's probably a carryover from the Indian
prejudice against "sudras" or untouchables.

Another reason is that my parents are very cautious and fear crime, and
they associate crime with minorities.  Of course, poor people do commit
crimes disproportionately more than the well-to-do, and many minorities
are disproportionately poor compared to white people, but it doesn't
justify applying a generic stereotype across all members of a race or
ethnicity.

My dad is firmly convinced that Jewish people control the country, especially
banking and the media, and that they control it in accordance with their
ethnic views.  I have no opinion on this, except that it is true that
the Jewish lobby has succeeded in creating a pro-Israeli American
foreign policy.

As for white people, there's an interesting dichotomy.  I don't sense any
"colonial" mentality at all; instead, most of the time I hear how immoral
and indisciplined white people are from my parents.  There is the image
of white people being more skilled in activities which are more a part
of American culture than my family's Indian culture, predominantly all
types of sports, from hiking and camping to baseball and football to
jetskiing and sailboarding.  They do respect that in white culture.

Manish
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Manish Vij                               /-\o /-()
   UC Berkeley:  mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu      \_/ \\/ )
   Novell:       mvij@ka.novell.com              |/_\
                                                  \_/.  .  . . ........
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Originator: root@voyager.corp.sgi.com
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:32:27 GMT

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Newsgroups: soc.eastern.re
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Newsgroups: soc.eastern.religion
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Newsgroups: soc.eastern.re
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: New racism (was Re: "Lonely in America" + Desis in convenience stores)
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:58:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.180725.12349@Firewall.Nielsen.Com> mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota) writes:
>In article <1992Jul15.015320.7984@novell.com> mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:

>>There are close parallels between the development of this relatively
>>young Indian-American consciousness and the experiences of other immigrant
>>groups in this nation.  Although other Asian-Americans might have undergone
>>the most similar experiences, let's not forget that even people as thoroughly
>>symbolic of America as the Kennedys come from an ethnic group that was
>>widely discriminated against at one time not so long ago.
>>Manish
>
>I think the dead give away of your own bias in your writing is:
>``people as thoroughly symbolic of America as the Kennedy's.'' Not to
>worry, this is the age old inductive bias everyone has but somehow not
>factored into the argument. I think, the symbolism of ethnic groups
>like Irish, Germans, Polish, Russians, etc. has been absorbed,
>homogeneously, and hence securely, into the symbolism represented by
>``white.''  

That's not my bias, that's my *POINT*.  The Kennedys, especially JFK, are
today used as totems by politicians such as Clinton and Gore who are stumping
cross-country on the same initial campaign route that Jack Kennedy
travelled.  BUT at the time, JFK was seen as not mainstream due to his
Catholic upbringing, and had to promise not to obey orders of the Pope.
Even further back, the Irish faced the same discrimination that "white"
people inflict today on "non-white" people, or vice versa.

Get the point?

Manish
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Manish Vij                               /-\o /-()
   UC Berkeley:  mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu      \_/ \\/ )
   Novell:       mvij@ka.novell.com              |/_\
                                                  \_/.  .  . . ........
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: rot@mickie.id.macsch.com (Rohit Thukral)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in Fiji (was Re: Indians in the Caribbean)
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:41:47 GMT
Reply-To: rot@mickie.id.macsch.com
Distribution: na
Organization: MSC, Los Angeles

In article <1992Jul29.193528.561@EE.Stanford.EDU>, cariapa@Tied-House.Stanford.EDU (Sandeep Cariapa) writes:
|> 	It is very interesting interacting with Fijian Indians: the dialect of
|> Hindi that they speak is very different from any of the Hindi I've
|> heard in India (which I admit, is quite a limited sample space) It is
|> more of a mixture of all Indian languages, since people from all over
|> India were shanghaied to Fiji. The language seems to have evolved
|> differently as well, since these people were isolated for such a long
|> time from mainland India. The cuisine is very different too, it uses a
|> lot of herbs and plants that are native to the South Pacific islands
|> and are unheard of in India. 
|> 
Its very interesting that Fiji Indians have kept their language while
they have adapted their food habits. This is a marked contrast to a post
(perhaps it was email) about Carribean Indians, which said that Indians
in the Carribean have given up their language but have kept their food.
I wonder what caused this difference in assimilation patterns.

Rohit
-- 
#include <StdDisclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: harjit@syracuse.cat.rpi.edu (Harjit Singh)
Subject: Re: Desi friends
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:08:01 GMT

I find the discussion about arranged marriages quite interesting.
Speaking for my family only, the concept is just a way for the couple
to be introduced to each other.  The decision is entirely theirs and
theirs only.  By the way, this was also true for my parents.

I think it is too bad that your friend is under such pressure from her
family.  I would hope that she decides to take more control over her
life and assert her self because in the end, she has to live with the
outcome.

Harjit



Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Science and Technology (Re: Family values ...)
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.013527.23929@news2.cis.umn.edu> shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad) writes:
>Science and family values come together at religion?  Please explain.

I had my tongue in my cheek :-^ Family values are predominantly drawn
from religion, as everyone knows (well, some if not all). Some values
have their basis in technology. For instance, if using a condom by any
adult in the family is considered as a value, then religion is not
what it is. However, some people tell you they've consulted their
priest or bishop or monk or whoever of certain moral authority and
gotten the approval. This is whimsical, truly, and we are not talking
here complete illiterates.

I think, this issue is also related to where people get their 
guidance from and how much of it they would consider as credible. Many
people I know consider religious priests as authorities on family
values so long it has nothing to do with their health, finances,
career or politics :-)

Finally, family values are not universal as much as outdoor barbecues
aren't. So they are not like religion. Nor are they science. That is,
one's habit of waking up at 3 a.m. and making surya (sun) namaskarams
(exercises)  to relieve stomach, say, is not good medical science.
They are somewhere in between science and religion, like folklore,
astrological beliefs and myths. 



Murthy


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: ABCDs of dating
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:38:13 GMT

In article <samaddar.711430292@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>Should you care if your kid inherits some of your software
>(language, religion, etc) along with your hardware (genes)?
>If you say that it doesn't matter, if the joy of parenthood
>is only in the pleasure and pain of raising kids, then why not
>go for adoption?

I cannot say my software is my parent's (both Indian). Can you? I
cannot say under what set of circumstances my parents will
be happy (I know for sure that if I gave them a palace full of maids
they can be happy) nor can I prognosticate that by fulfilling their
wishes they will be, consequently, very happy. To draw the argument to
its death, I don't know what `happy' means in this context and whether
such a thing called happiness exists. Welcome to the AI software! I
think your software analogy is flawed.

>Irish-American politicians (and others) care an extra bit for
>Ireland and Irish. That is why they introduced changes in the
>immigration laws. Jewish-Americans do their extra bit for Israel.
>A Serb-American recently returned to Yugoslavia to become it's
>Prime Minister. Before going for a cross-cultural marriage, do
>you wonder if you will leave any progeny to care that extra bit
>for your "folks".
>
>Sumitro


I can give you a list of senators who have nothing to do,
whatsoever--software or hardware-- as you say, with India, but still
they care about what happens to Indians. It is a no less significant
matter. 

Murthy

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian