HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chrism@haida.mentorg.com (Chris McCabe)
Subject: Re: seeking copy of NEC..
Originator: chrism@haida
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 20:10:59 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <DRAND.92Oct8175441@spinner.osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:
|> In article <Bvt1zp.DL5@scd.hp.com> toml@wal.hp.com (Tom Luteran) writes:
|> 
|>      I'm trying to buy a copy of the National Electric Code (NEC) book.  Can
|>      someone tell me if this should be available at electric supply houses or
|>      do I have to order it by mail from some organization?  Not an item they
|>      stock at Home Depot, at least ;-).
|> 
|> You want the annotated code,  which can be ordered through a bookstore.
|> The real code is a standards document,  and unless you're a real
|> expert you need the annotations that explain the standard (note that
|> I need them with both a BS and MS in EE).
|> 

  I bought a copy of the NEC at a builders bookstore here in Portland.  They
sell copies of all the different codes as well as a lot of DIY books.

  I was told by the local general bookstore that they did not carry the NEC
because they are required to buy a whole bunch of copies or none at all and
they didn't feel like they could sell them all.

  -Chris
-- 
Chris McCabe        chris_mccabe@mentorg.com | Opinions expressed here may not
Mentor Graphics Corporation   (503) 685-7000 | be those of Mentor Graphics and
Member of Technical Staff - Core Engineering | probably not those of the Pope. 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Subject: Re: Bulb Store
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:37:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.213434.16253@PA.dec.com> himel@wsl.dec.com (Mark Himelstein) writes:
>Hey, I just found a new store in the bay area that just sells
>light bulbs called 'Bulb Store'. 
>Do these kind of stores exist elsewhere?

    In New York City, "Just Bulbs" is near Broadway and 22nd Street
(just south of the Flatiron Building). It's been there four or five
years.
							Peter Trei
							ptrei@Mitre.org
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: High Eff Furnace Question
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:25:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.132942.14376@ryn.mro4.dec.com> abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott) writes:
>Whether or not you save money overall with high-efficiency burners 
>is heavily dependent on the cost of fuel. Moreover it is impossible
>to predict the price of fuel 5 and 10 years from now and this 
>figure is often needed for cost calculations.

Do you think it is possible to predict whether the price of fuel
10 years from now will be higher or lower than it is now?

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Happy owner of a new Mitsubishi Expo.
From: dgs@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (David G. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re:    FREE REFINANCING
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:05:41 GMT
Reply-To: dgs@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (David G. Schwartz)
Organization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA

In article <1asnr8INNpc9@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>In article 111851VANCE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Valery Nesterov <VANCE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> () writes:
>>
>>We have loans at NO COST at all to you!!
>
>How about tomorrow night?  I live in Cary, North Carolina.  Say, 5:30?
>
>Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,

After you finish at Ed's place, how 'bout mine. I live in Waterloo, Ontario.
Call anytime.


..............Dave

---------

Remember: Net.advice is usually worth what you pay for it.
VOICE:(519) 884-1710x701 FAX:(519) 884-0610 NCR VoicePlus: 643-1701 DoD#: 0066
Dave.Schwartz@Waterloo.NCR.COM   UUCP: {uunet!ncrcom,maytag}!ncrwat!53iss6!dgs
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Thermostat info and recommendations
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:49:30 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: na
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <BNVXRB1w161w@cdthq.UUCP>, gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
|>5%, so it will probably pay for itself in less than a year. Save

Mine certainly did.  I paid about $50 CAN for a Honeywell.  Previous
owners had run $900 CAN (oil) a year, plus unspecified woodstove use. 
We used about $700 oil and no wood in a fairly cold season.
                     
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: himel@wsl.dec.com (Mark Himelstein)
Subject: Bulb Store
Organization: Himelsoft, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 21:34:34 GMT

Hey, I just found a new store in the bay area that just sells
light bulbs called 'Bulb Store'. We just burned out the halogen in
a torch lamp (price club special) and the hardware store didn't
have it. Looked like good prices and lots of bulbs (only bulbs!).

Just thought I'd dump the info on the net:

	Bulb Store, 1111 W El Camino Real, Sunnyvale, 408-737-2852

Do these kind of stores exist elsewhere?

MarkH

--

Mark I. Himelstein				408-255-8227
Himelsoft, Inc.					himel@himelsoft.com
From: tanner@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jim Tanner)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCIs and the Garbage Disposal/Dishwasher outlet
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:47:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle

In article <1992Oct9.170836.21179@exu.ericsson.se> exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:
>I'm about to install a Garbage Disposer (GD) in my kitchen sink (I
>thought about putting it in the oven, but it just didn't make good
>ergonomic sense).  I will need to run a new circuit for this GD - 
>because this GD is going where no GD has gone before.  Does the outlet
>for this type of appliance need to be GFCI protected?
>
>Normally, I'd GFCI it - hey $8 is nothing for a guy with a Home Depot
>Credit Card - but there's a hitch!  The circuit that I'm going to run
>will actually be a "multi-wire branch circuit" with just one outlet -
>that outlet under the sink.  My intention is making one side of the
>circuit dedicated for the GD, the other side dedicated for a
>dishwasher (how the previous owners got along without a Waste King
>2600 Garbage Disposal unit and a Maytag JetClean dishwasher for 38
>years, I will *never* know).
>
>So, the difference here is not just an $8 GFCI outlet, but an
>expensive multi-pole GFCI breaker.

Why?  The following circuit should work just fine:


                                     Double Gang Box
                                  .....................
                                  .                   .
    Service Panel                 .        GD         .
   ................               .       GFCI        .
   .              .               .       -----       .
   .  Double Pole .               .       |   |       .
   .    Breaker   .               .   ----|   |----   .
   .  ----------  .      Red      .   |   |   |   |   .
   .  |        |-----------------------   -----   |   .
   .  |--------|  .                               ---------
   .  |        |-----------------------   -----   |   .   |
   .  ----------  .      Black    .   |   |   |   |   .   |
   .              .               .   ----|   |----   .   |
   .              .               .       |   |       .   |
   .              .               .       -----       .   |
   .  Neutral Bus .               .        DW         .   |
   .      |       .               .       GFCI        .   |
   .......|........               .....................   |
          |              White                            |
          -------------------------------------------------

This is electrically no different from running two separate black/white
pairs from opposite phase legs of the service panel to two separate
GFCI's.  The only wiring difference is that in the above diagram the
two white wires are connected in the double gang box, while in the
separate pairs situation they are connected at the neutral bus in the
service panel.  From the point of view of the GFCI's there is
absolutely no difference.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: High Eff Furnace Question
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:51:32 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:

> In article <1992Oct14.132942.14376@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, abbott@priory.enet.dec.
> > In article <1992Oct13.135151.431@sdc.com>, kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki) write
> > An analogy to today's autos is not out of order. Today's computer
> > controlled, multi-valve, fuel-injected engines are certainly
> > more efficent than those of 20 years ago. However they are more
> > costly to maintain and repair.
> WHAT!!!! My fuel injected computer controlled all that stuff 300ZX has
> 160,000 miles on it and the only thing I had to pay for was oil and filters.

Quick--crosspost to rec.autos; I'm sure they'll want to know what
kind of spark plugs you're using! 

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: brad@ssd.intel.com (Brad Rullman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Surge Protectors no good if no ground?
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:00:51 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel

Someone stated in another article that a surge suppressor won't work
if the outlet it is plugged into is not grounded.  Is this true?

I use a surge protector on my stereo.  All of my stereo components
have only a 2-prong plug.  They are all plugged into the surge protector,
the 3-pronged plug of which is plugged into a "2-prong" outlet via an
adapter plug.

Is this a useless setup?  Thanks...


Brad Rullman                      Intel Supercomputer Systems Division CO1-01
brad@ssd.intel.com                15201 Greenbrier Parkway
(503) 629-4309                    Beaverton, OR  97006-5771
From: m1nxb00@fed.frb.gov (Nicholas Bull)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Inspection report ==> $back? (how many?)
Keywords: inspection report
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:17:29 GMT
Distribution: usa

Dear all,

We had a home inspection.  Structural, electrical, and plumbing all
seem fine.  But, the roof is 17 years old and the tiles (shingles
???) are getting fragile--they bend a little but crack when bent
back.  Some have been tacked back down with nails.  The inspector
says we'll be replacing in 3  years--maybe $2000-3000?  The AC
compressor is 12 years old and we couldn't test it since the
temperature is too low; the glass-lined gas water heater is 20; the
stove is probably original (37 years old); the dishwasher is probably
20; the furnace is original but had its blower replaced somewhere
along the way--heat exhanger has some surface rust but no cracks (the
furnace is very dirty though, since the tenants didn't change the
filter since it was cleaned a year ago). So, to summarize, there are
a lot of major appliances that could be expected to die within the
next 3 years but are currently working.  The comparable prices are
$200K (but on a busier street), $210K (twice), $220K (but with more
updated kitchen stuff), and $230K (but with a garage and in-law
apartment w/kitchen).  Our offer was $220 (under some pressure from a
competing contract).  How much do you figure we should ask for back,
for all the stuff that might be likely to die soon (or should we just
walk)?
 
Thanks,

Nick
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jens4813@hgc.edu (Kevin Jensen)
Subject: Re: seller financing: +/- ?
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:32:46 GMT


See a lawyer immediately. I mean this. You will get burned if you dont,
my uncle was burned I was burned. The lawyers job is to make sure no
problems exist. If the lawyer makes a mistake he can be held lybal. (sp?)
Good Luck.
From: rrw@elden (Robert Wier)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Sears tools (was Electric Drill Recommendation)
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:47:45 GMT
Originator: rrw@elden.cse.nau.edu

From article <1992Oct8.211513.19963@shell.shell.com>, by rgh@camo (Richard G. Hash):
> 
> An interesting side-note - I have a Sears router from 1958-1959 (I'm
> the 3rd owner) whose trigger switch just broke - so I called the
> Customer-Response folks, who dug up the microfiche on it, found the
> part ($5.someoddcents) and mailed it to me within 5 days. Complain
> about that - five whole days downtime in 35 years.. Whata crummy tool..
> 
> Caveat emptor.
> -- 
> Richard G. Hash
> Shell Bellaire Research Center, Houston TX
> email: rgh@shell.com    ph: (713) 245-7311

  Unfortunately this doesn't seem to work for Montgomery Ward's.  I have
  a 1968 box fan (sits on the floor) - built like a tank - all metal
  and it had ball bearings in the motor.  Lasted until about a year
  ago when one of the windings in the motor shorted (very spectacular!).

  I checked and it turned out that getting the motor re-wound would be
  more expensive than the entire unit was worth, and there isn't a drop
  in replacement commonly available. So I called M.W.'s parts line.

  BOY! Was I suprised.  They had a part number listed and said "That'll
  be $32.75 - what card do you want to use?"  So I gave 'em a card number
  and waited for them to ship. And waited...And waited...And waited...
  And waited...And waited...And waited...And waited...

  Finally, after about 3 months, I called 'em back (FORTUNATELY I had copied
  down the order number - otherwise I'd been sunk even though I had
  a transaction number on my credit card statement 2 months back).  They
  said "Oh, that part has been discontinued (10 years ago). We'll refund
  your money".  So they got to keep and earn interest on my $35 for
  3 months since they conveniently forgot to see if the part was actually
  still available.  Now, 3 mos interest on $35 isn't much - but I wonder
  how many people they do that to?



 - Bob Wier

  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
                   College of Engineering
      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | BITNET: WIER@NAUVAX | WB5KXH
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: copper pipe
Date: 9 Oct 92 06:31:10 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <BvrJ0K.JB5@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> esr@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Edwin S. Russell) writes:
>As part of a forthcoming kitchen remodel I plan to start replacing our  
>25-year-old galvanized pipe with copper.  The simplified residential building  
>code summary put out by the city building department does not specify types  
>of pipe required.  

>Can someone briefly describe when type L and type M rigid copper pipe are  
>required?  I know type L has a thicker wall (and is more expensive).  Any  
>other differences?

"Unless otherwise specified by local code, Type M is sufficiently strong
for the water supply system in a home."

	"Plumbing for Old and New Houses", Jay Heddon,
	    Creative Homeowner Press, p 21.

Some places even permit Type M for underground plumbing, but some will
require L or K (even thicker than L).

Ask your city building department, or at a local *real* plumbing supply
store to be sure.

And don't forget conductivity breaks between the copper and galvanized.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: buy a model home?
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:05:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Oct08.190504.29615
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <BvtCr8.IBB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct7.165951.1742@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> jis@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
>>
>>Is a "MODEL" home usually sold with furnitures or not? 
>>
>>I am interested in a model home, but I am told that because it is 
>>PROFESSIONAL decorated (living, family, dinning and master bedroom), 
>>it costs $10,000 more in addition to the house price. It is a 4 bedroom
>>house. Three other bedrooms are not decorated.
>
>Tell them that the wear and tear on the model house lowers its value by at
>least $15,000 over what it would be worth *new*. Perhaps that will shut
>them up.
>
>Tell them their decorator has lousy taste, and in your opinion the
>decorating is hideous. Thus, it makes the house worth LESS to you
>because it's so much less attractive visually. Knock at least $10,000
>off the asking price (before "decorating") since you'll have to bring in
>your own decorator to get the job done right.
>
>Whatever you do, don't pay MORE for this model house than you would have
>for one of the other comparabble houses in the development.

True - the builder we were working with, when the deal fell apart, was
whining because they knock $4k off the asking price of any house that
already has the colors set (siding/trim color, carpeting, linoleum,
countertops).  If you want the furniture, fine, but anything that you
don't like will just end up being extra work on your part, certainly
not worth paying extra for.  Offer them list price IF they replace all
the carpeting with your choice, otherwise they're way out of line.
My guess is they knocked the price up high so they could sell it
at list and let the buyer think he/she's a shrewd bargainer.

Maybe you could dig up whatever the original list price was when they
built the house, and offer them that..... :')
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: What I bought (was Re: The programmable thermostat jungle...)
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:18:45 GMT

I posted the original inquiry, so I figured I would follow up with what
I chose.

I bought the Hunter Auto Temp.  It allows programming for three different
days, and you choose which days of the week use which pattern (e.g. M-F,
S, S or MWF, TR, SS, any combination).  It allows 4 programs/day.
It has temporary override (until next program change) and vacation override
(until manually released).  The up-down arrows for temporary override are
on the outside, right under the display for easy access.  It has a "lock"
feature which, when enabled, requires that a key be used to change settings.
It has a couple bells and whistles - a "filter monitor" which tracks how
furnace run-time has elapsed since the last filter change, and flashes 
"FILTER" on the display when it's time to change it.  It has an "energy
usage monitor" which allows you to view furnace run-time for the current
day, previous day, current week, and previous week.  It would be nice if
it remembered season-to-date, as well, because that would help me monitor
when I'm running low on oil, but to do that you would have to check it each
week and keep the total yourself.  It allows programming in one-minute
increments, which is nice.  It allows us to program the morning to run 
for ten minutes before we get up - just enough to take the chill out of
the bedroom and bath.  The Honeywell MagicStat MS3000 wouldn't allow 
dropping the temperature until 1/2 hour after it went up.  It supports 
automatic switching between heating and cooling, and has max and min
temperature emergency cutoffs to prevent constant running.

Can't speak for the reliability/longevity of it yet, of course, but 
feature-wise it does everything we were looking for.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: vallath@vishnu.labs.tek.com (Vallath Nandakumar )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Outer wall insulation
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:41:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: sail.12732
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.



Hi,

I just had an energy audit done on my 1963 house by a lady
from the local gas company.  It turns out that my outer walls
are hollow and not insulated, and she says I should get it
insulated.

A friend told me that retrofit wall insulation is a lot of trouble,
and it is easy to get it done wrong, especially where I live,
which has a wet climate (Beaverton, in western Oregon, close
to Portland).
(Ugly holes on the siding, vacant spaces, formaldehyde,
possible problem with condensation etc.)  

So, do you guys have success stories or horror stories about
this?  I am not going to do this myself.  Any local
contractors who do this well?

Also, my friend suggested that I slash the vapor barrier on
the fiberglass batts which I am going to install under my
floor, in the crawl space.  This sounds OK to me.  Any
experience, especially from people in similar climates would be
welcome before I spend money and effort.

Vallath Nandakumar

Use this email address or post on the net.
vallath@vishnu.labs.tek.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Garage door selection criteria?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 21:59:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.104207.43839@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>What sort of garage doors do you netters like in terms of both
>durability and insulatory properties? I'm in the market for a 16x7
>door.

My house went up in 1954. The original wood panel door is still in fine
shape (knock wood), though it looks a little the worse for wear. I don't
think you can ask for better durability.

Insulatory properties?  Well ........

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | There are very few personal problems which
George Patterson -  | cannot be solved by a suitable application
                    | of high explosive.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Tree Climbing: SUMMARY
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:26:20 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1bc142INNs4c@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>signaled my helper to start pulling the rope, and cut the opposite
>side.  As the top 15' - 20' started to fall, I killed and dropped the
>saw, squatted down, wrapped both arms around that tree, and hugged it
>for dear life!

So how far did the tree sway?

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Happy owner of a new Mitsubishi Expo.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Running Coax and phone lines
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:47:47 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

daniels_d@apollo.HP.COM (Dave Daniels) writes:

> I am in the process of having a house built with the
> second floor unfinished. I want to run coax cable and
> a telephone line to the second floor, before the drywall
> is installed. My question is, is it okay to run the cable
> through the same holes as the wiring for the electricity
> or is this against some kind of wiring spec. If I have to
> drill new holes I will, I was just hoping I could use the 
> existing holes.

Check with the local building inspector; they'll probably require
a minimum separation, and will want plenum cable instead of PVC.

Someone else has posted about having to rip out network cable
and use plenum stuff....

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: weverka@spot.Colorado.EDU (Robert T. Weverka)
Subject: Re: This Old House
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:35:00 GMT


I think they should add a little guest house in back.  They have
a big lot.  The extra house could serve them as a guest room, and
office space ( think of the reductions in interuptions if your
office is detached from the main house.)  When their boy gets to
his teens, he may enjoy the privacy of moving out.  When they
kids flee the nest, they can get rental apartment income.

  Should we alert Norm and Steve?
-Ted

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house