HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Cam
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:46:44 GMT

In article <BtKKrL.CIM@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca> rjromanc@sun1.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Richard Romanczyk) writes:
>>Prejudice against the Jews in Europe is well documented and nowhere
>>was this worse than in Poland.  The nazis capitalized on the situation

>This is a crock of shit.  In earlier centuries, the Poles welcomed the Jewish
>people into their land when they fled from other countries.  That's why 
>there was a lot of them there.  Read some history books on Eastern Europe.

Speaking of crocks:

a) We're not talking about earlier centuries.

b) The Poles weren't in much shape to "welcome" anyone, nor is this 
exactly what happened.  Check out a few old books of Polish sermons,
or the many anti-Jewish tracts written in the 19th C, if you wish to 
speak of earlier centuries.  

c) Most of the Jews in what was Poland in 1939 were there because of
the old Russian policy of the Pale of Settlement.  The Poles had little
to say about this.

>>but I think responsibility for the death camps has to shared by the
>>whole of Europe and especially by those areas where prejudice was most
>>widespread.>

>This is even a bigger crock of shit.  German Nazis are solely to blame
>for the concentration camps.  They created, built and operated them.

With the aid of a good many people from other countries.  I speak of
guards, other local workers, and those who were in a position to speak
up against the deportation and did not, to say nothing of the many col-  
laborators the Germans found in countries from France and the Netherlands
to Poland and Hungary.

>Plans for these camps were conceived before the war even started.  There

For the death camps?  I'd like to hear a source for this.  Concentration
camps were operating in 1933 already, but mainly for political
undesirables.

>may have been Anti-Semetism in many parts of Europe (including Poland),
>but hey, let's face it: no one else resorted to genocide except the German
>Nazis.

Nobody else waged a war in order to do it.  But nobody stood up for 
the Jews when they were deported, in most cases; and where people *did*
stand up, it had a palpable effect.

Roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.polish
From: michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action
Organization: Warsaw University Physics Dept.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:36:54 GMT

Roger Lustig writes:

>a) We're not talking about earlier centuries.

*We*?  And why not talk about earlier centuries?  Because it would
abolish your short ranged theories?

>b) The Poles weren't in much shape to "welcome" anyone, nor is this 
>exactly what happened.  Check out a few old books of Polish sermons,
>or the many anti-Jewish tracts written in the 19th C, if you wish to 
>speak of earlier centuries.  
>
>c) Most of the Jews in what was Poland in 1939 were there because of
>the old Russian policy of the Pale of Settlement.  The Poles had little
>to say about this.

Jews were numerously present in Poland long before the Russian policy
had anything to say about this.  They did not appear just in the 19th
century.  And they were so numerous exactly because independent Poland
was one of the few countries which did not persecute them.

>>                                      German Nazis are solely to blame
>>for the concentration camps.  They created, built and operated them.
>
>With the aid of a good many people from other countries.  I speak of
>guards, other local workers, and those who were in a position to speak
>up against the deportation and did not, to say nothing of the many col-  
>laborators the Germans found in countries from France and the Netherlands
>to Poland and Hungary.

Again on the pretended "Polish collaboration with nazis"!  Look,
in no other country in Europe collaboration with nazis was so
marginal and insignificant than among Poles.  Comparing this to
France or Hungary (or many others) is pure nonsense (note, I didn't
want to use strong words).

---------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are my opinions. Quite predictable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Michal~ Szleper                          "All you need is love, love,
(michals@fuw.edu.pl)                      Love is all you need..."
From: laufer@math.luc.EDU (Konstantin Laufer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Ein deutscher Carusso????
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:38:31 GMT
Reply-To: laufer@math.luc.edu
Organization: Loyola University Chicago

In article <1992Aug27.110847.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, poser@vxdesy.desy.de (Till Poser  -  ZEUS OFFLINE) writes:
> Blos? BLOS? Lieber Herr Gesangsverein, Jim, bist Du dir darueber im

Blos? -- Bloss/blo\3/blo\ss!

> dasz dieser Trend sich _verstaerkt_. Das bedeutet unter anderem, dasz
> 10% der US Bevoelkerung fuer Jobs jenseits des Burgerflippings nicht
> vermittelbar sind. Das bedeutet, dasz ein Minimum von 25 Millionen
> Amerikanern praktisch nicht in der Lage sind einen technisch
> qualifizierten Job zu erhalten (no upward mobility). Sind Dir die

Wenn 10% nicht lesen und schreiben koennen, heisst das ja nicht
unbedingt, dass all diese Leute auf den Arbeitsmarkt gehen, sondern
vielleicht eher die Haelfte.

> > Sollen wir auch dazu sagen, dass das Prozent der Bevoelkerung mit 
> > Hochschulabschluss ist vier mal hoeher in Amerika als in Deutschland?
> 
> Musz ich Deine Aussage so verstehen, dasz 120% der USAians zumindest
> einen B.A. oder B.Sc. haben? Das vertraegt sich nicht so ganz mit der
> Analphabethen/Quote die Du zitierst.

Siehe unten (*)

> Reality Check, mein Freund. Du meinst mit "Hochschule" High School, was
> ich mit gutem Willen als Realschule auffasse. Ich, und die meisten

Hum?  ":-)" vergessen??  Du glaubst doch nicht im Ernst, dass ein
US-Amerikaner, der gebildet genug ist, an einer Diskussion in Deutsch
teilzunehmen und wahrscheinlich nicht das erste Mal s.c.g liest,
Hochschule und High School verwechselt?  Trotz ihrer Probleme sollte
man die US-Amerikaner nicht so grob unterschaetzen.

> anderen hier, verstehen unter "Hochschule" Universitaet (in der einen
> oder anderen Form). Die Zahl der Hochschulabsolventen in Deutschland in
> den augenblicklich relevanten Jahrgaengen liegt bei 30% des Quorums.
> Die Anzahl der Sculabgaenger mit Realabschlusz nach den vorgeschriebenen
> 10 Schuljahren liegt im Augenblick bei ~70%, von den mindestens zwei
> Drittel noch weiter Richtung Abitur geht.

(*) Obacht!  Wenn ich James richtig verstehe, spricht er von der
Gesamtbevoelkerung, *nicht* pro Jahrgang.  Deine Zahlen sind nicht mit
James' vergleichbar!  Noch niemand hat vergleichbare Zahlen
angebracht, und folglich hat alle bisherige Kritik an James'
Behauptung auch keine rationale Basis.

[...]

'n Schoene
-- 
-Konstantin 	             "Es isch es Chogge Zue-ueg mit dene Chaibe Boelle,
[laufer@math.luc.edu]		         die branned choggemaessig i die Auge."
Loyola University Chicago		                 -- Die Schweizermacher
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: karen@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Karen Spragle)
Subject: Dual Citizenship
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:08:30 GMT

Does anyone know if it is possible to hold a passport for both 
Germany and the US?  I am a native american, but my mom is a 
german citizen.  I am interested in living/working over there
for a while, and thought this would be the easiest way to do it.

I'd like to stay in either Hamburg or Munich with my family. If
I can't get a passport, what other options do I have?  

Thanks
Karen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.polish
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Cam
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:51:53 CDT


In article <1992Aug25.174721.4875@ichips.intel.com> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.073527.3523@fuw.edu.pl>, michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug24.164051.28173@ichips.intel.com> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>
>> >To cite another, in "Shoah" one Jewish survivor recounts how Polish farmers
>> >outside Treblinka used to taunt passing trainloads of Jews by drawing
>> >their fingers across their throats to make the throat-cutting gesture. 
> 
>> I've seen the film "Shoah" and I've seen it in the original Polish
>> version, i.e., not deformed by bad translation. I remember perfectly
>> the gesture you refer to. It was a warning to people being deported
>> to the Nazi camp, which meant to say "Run away! They're gonna kill
>> you there!"
>
>
>That claim about the intent of the gestures is in the English version as 
>well.  It is subsequently refuted by one of the survivors from the trains.
>Perhaps this and other unpleasant references were deleted from the Polish
>version you saw.
>
>
And that survivor explained exactly, what those gestures shown in
"Shoah" meant, knowing better than producers. By the way, didn't
that survivor explain, that some arms were delivered to Warsaw
ghetto by Polish underground instead of Gestapo ? Just for curiosity.

Aleksander Mazur



Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: me@grmbl.saar.de (Martin Emmerich)
Subject: Re: Informatik/Computer Science vergleichbar ?
Reply-To: me@grmbl.saar.de
Organization: ME Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:19:24 GMT

In <64391@cup.portal.com> MacUserLabs@cup.portal.com (Stephan - Somogyi) writes:

>asa@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Annette Strupp-Adams) writes:

>>Ein Bekannter, er ist Deutscher, studiert Computer Science (Informatik) an
>>einer der hiesigen Universitaeten. Nach abgeschlossenem Studium moechte er
>>nach Deutschland zurueckkehren und dort als Informatiker arbeiten.

>>Sollte er auf jeden Fall seinen Magister in Informatik hier machen oder wird
>>er mit seinem B.S. Abschluss auch konkurrenzfaehig sein?

>Er wird sich mit seinem BS nicht legitim als Diplom-Informatiker bezeichnen
>koennen; meines Wissens wird ein Bachelors (egal ob BA oder BS) vielerorts
>als ein besseres Vordiplom angesehen. Es kommt natuerlich auch ganz auf die
>hiesige Uni an; wenn er ein BS einer in Deutschland bekannten Uni hat siehts
>besser aus als wenn er eins von einer unbekannten hat.

Hier in Saarbruecken hatten wir mal einen, der war Master of
Science. Ich nehme an, dass das der Magister ist oder?
Jedenfalls musste der noch eine wenig mit dem Kultusministerium
kaempfen, bevor er das als dem Diplom gleichwertig anerkannt
bekam.

-- 
Martin  Emmerich   <--- this is a warlord-proof   <--- this is
me@grmbl.saar.de        signature                      not
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.polish
From: rjromanc@sun1.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Richard Romanczyk)
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Cam
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:40:33 GMT

>Prejudice against the Jews in Europe is well documented and nowhere
>was this worse than in Poland.  The nazis capitalized on the situation

This is a crock of shit.  In earlier centuries, the Poles welcomed the Jewish
people into their land when they fled from other countries.  That's why 
there was a lot of them there.  Read some history books on Eastern Europe.

>but I think responsibility for the death camps has to shared by the
>whole of Europe and especially by those areas where prejudice was most
>widespread.>

This is even a bigger crock of shit.  German Nazis are solely to blame
for the concentration camps.  They created, built and operated them.
Plans for these camps were conceived before the war even started.  There
may have been Anti-Semetism in many parts of Europe (including Poland),
but hey, let's face it: no one else resorted to genocide except the German
Nazis.
From: mb+@CS.CMU.EDU (Michael Berthold)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Rostock-Krawalle
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:12:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtM5sv.3yC.2
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <1992Aug26.082755.26255@fokus.gmd.de>, mhs@fokus.gmd.de (M.Schmeil) writes:
[...]
|> ..... bleibt zu hoffen, dass sich der verfassungsschutz mal
|> seiner eigentlichen aufgabe zuwendet, statt steuergelder
|> mit punk-fanzines-lesen und greenpeace-verklagen zu verschwenden.
|> der staat sollte dafuer sorgen, dass die leute eine richtige
|> (harte) arbeit bekommen; das nimmt aengste und macht (zu) muede
|> (zum rum-hoolen).

Fragt man sich ob es beim heutigen Stand der Automatisierung ueberhaupt
noch moeglich ist, dass jeder eine (vernuenftige) Arbeit hat. Schon heute
gibt's ja (insbesondere auf den Aemtern) einen dermassenen Haufen kaum
versteckter Arbeitslosigkeit, da fragt man sich wirklich, wie diese
Leute alle vernuenftig beschaeftigt werden sollen.

only my $0.02,

	Michael

Michael Berthold, CMU, Pit, PA, USA.
From: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org (Lars Soltau)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Bathroom standards (was Re: shopping hours)
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:26:59 GMT
Organization: United Federation of Planets
	<ALTI.92Aug21144204@tanera.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
	<SPACE.92Aug22182145@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org>
	<ALTI.92Aug24143916@tanera.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ncc1701.stgt.sub.org
In-reply-to: alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk's message of 24 Aug 92 13:39:16 GMT

>>>>> On 24 Aug 92 13:39:16 GMT, alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Thorsten Altenkirch) said:

> In article <SPACE.92Aug22182145@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org> space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org (Lars Soltau) writes:

>    Huh? I went to London in March, and I never had any problem to find an
>    autoteller accepting EC cards. Maybe that's restricted to the capital, though.

> They must have changed this recently. This weekend I got money from an
> autoteller which pretended to acceppt EC cards (I didn't try though).
> Btw: Edinburgh is A CAPITAL as well.

I didn't deny that. I was just not looking at your address.

>    There are houses in Britain that have a water tank in the attic because the
>    pressure of the water coming from the service station is too low. 

> There are? Are there houses which have not? It's a very hygieniec
> thing as well: a friend of mine found (beside other things) a dead rat
> in her water tank.

Not to mention the fun you have if your water tank happens to burst...
Xref: sparky soc.culture.german:6012 soc.culture.polish:2125
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Cam
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:10:53 GMT


In article <1992Aug25.234246.7745@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.073527.3523@fuw.edu.pl> michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug24.164051.28173@ichips.intel.com> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>>>On the other hand, there was a considerable amount of collaboration
>>>on an individual, unorganized basis in the round-up and extermination
>>>of the Polish Jews.
>>
>>Even if it was true it still wouldn't prove any collaboration with Nazis.
>>
>>
>>In other words, Mr. Reece, you'd better inform yourself about
>>the subject you want to write, before you post the next crap.
>
>Prejudice against the Jews in Europe is well documented and nowhere
>was this worse than in Poland.  The nazis capitalized on the situation
>but I think responsibility for the death camps has to shared by the
>whole of Europe and especially by those areas where prejudice was most
>widespread.>
>-- 

Ted, you do not seem to be a dumb person, but certainly misinformed.
Apparently you are preoccupied with prejudice against the Jews.
Have you ever thought, how it is possible that people are demonstrating
prejudice ? By generalization. And look how pretty you generalize
information you have gained in your life. So when you are talking about
prejudice look at yourself first. You will find a lot of answers there.
The problem is that nobody wants to improve himself, but almost everybody 
is eager to save entire nations, even world.

Aleksander Mazur
From: alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Thorsten Altenkirch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: shopping hours (and bathroom differences)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:15:24 GMT
	<1992Aug26.154322.14625@sinix.UUCP> <26AUG199216250843@cs.umass.edu>
Organization: LFCS, Edinburgh
In-reply-to: atkin@cs.umass.edu's message of 26 Aug 92 21:25:00 GMT

In article <26AUG199216250843@cs.umass.edu> atkin@cs.umass.edu (Marc Atkin) writes:

   >PS:  I really like Germany, but as any German, or anyone else who lives here,
   >will tell you, there are two things about life here that suck:
   >	The weather, and the shopping hours!

   WOW!!! You must have read my mind! Every time someone asks me if I would 
   prefer living in Germany or in the US, I tell them, I don't know, I really
   like Germany, except for two things: The weather and the shopping hours!

I must have overlooked this so far - but what is the problem with the
german weather ???? It is cold in the winter and hot in the summer if
my memories are right. If you want to experience some real weather
then you should come to Scotland!!!

T.
--
************************************************************
Thorsten Altenkirch		alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk
LFCS, Edinburgh
Scotland
Xref: sparky soc.culture.german:6101 de.soc.politik:1301
From: hm342st@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Michael Staats)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,de.soc.politik
Subject: Re: Krawalle in Rostock
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:40:22 GMT
Organization: Rechenzentrum Uni-Duisburg

In <92Aug27.122408edt.47520@neat.cs.toronto.edu> mstede@cs.toronto.edu (Manfred Stede) writes:
>root@chamber.in-berlin.de (Patrick Wendt) writes:

[einiges gel"oscht]

>Liebe Leute in Deutschland, ihr werdet euch an die Mannigfaltigkeit 
>dieser Welt gewoehnen muessen.  Am Ende des 20. Jahrhunderts ist
>Augen-zu-und-wir-bleiben-unter-uns leider nicht mehr ausreichend.
>Und werdet Euch darueber klar, ob Ihr nun auslaenderfeindlich seid
>oder nicht --- solche Aussagen wie die oben sind ziemlich widerspruech-
>lich.

Stimmt, das sehe ich auch so. Aber der Grund dieses Postings ist
ein etwas anderer. 

Hallo Leser au\3erhalb Deutschlands,

ich finde, es ist eine gute Idee, mal hierhin zu posten, wie
Ihr die Situation in der BRD so von au\3en seht.
In anderen L"andern gibt es ja auch Rechtsextremisten (Frankreich:
Le Pen, ...) und vermutlich auch ausl"anderfeindliche Tendenzen.
Ist das vergleichbar? Oder sind die Deutschen (eigentlich m"usste
ich wir Deutschen schreiben, aber mit diesem Volk kann ich mich
immer weniger identifizieren) auf dem Weg ins 4. Reich?

Danke f"ur Eure Meinungen

PS: Ganz allgemein denke ich, da\3 Stimmen aus dem Ausland vielleicht
unsere Politiker ein wenig zur Vernunft bringen, so da\3 sie nach
den Krawallen in Rostock nicht als erstes sofort nach Asylrecht"anderung 
rufen, sondern mal anfangen, nachzudenken. 

Tsch"uss, Michael

-- 
Michael Staats, Student of Theoretical Physics, Uni-GH Duisburg 
Wenn dieser Artikel in Deutsch ist: Bitte entschuldigt meine Fehler.
If this article is in english: Please excuse me for my mistakes. 
if (written_in_C(&article)) mistake_msg_to("michael@hal6000.uni-duisburg.de");
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: poser@vxdsyc.desy.de (Till Poser  -  ZEUS OFFLINE)
Subject: Re: Rostock-Krawalle
Reply-To: Poser@vxdsyc.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.082755.26255@fokus.gmd.de>, 
mhs@fokus.gmd.de (M.Schmeil) writes:

|>genau das denke ich auch (aber nicht erst seit heute). terror
|>von rechts und (pseudo-)links, arbeitslosigkeit, unfaehige 
|>politiker/polizei - das ist original das was ich aus dem
|>geschichtsunterricht ueber die weimarer republik in erinnerung 
|>habe. bleibt zu hoffen, dass sich der verfassungsschutz mal
|>seiner eigentlichen aufgabe zuwendet, statt steuergelder
|>mit punk-fanzines-lesen und greenpeace-verklagen zu verschwenden.
|>der staat sollte dafuer sorgen, dass die leute eine richtige
|>(harte) arbeit bekommen; das nimmt aengste und macht (zu) muede
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>(zum rum-hoolen).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Das erinnert mich dann doch ein wenig zu sehr an die Arbeitslagerrethorik 
der ewig Gestrigen um es noch im mindesten komisch finden zu koennen.

Koennten wir vielleicht derlei unreflektiertes Stammtischgesabbel denjenigen
ueberlassen, die zu desavouieren wir uns die Muehe machen?

       Till Poser         Internet: poser@vxdsyc.desy.de
-F35- ZEUS DESY/Freiburg  Bitnet:   POSER@DESYVAX
bldg.1b-235, Notkestr.85  Hepnet:   VXDESY::POSER (13313::Poser)
   D-2000 Hamburg 52      Tel.: -49-40-8998-2004
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff)
Subject: The burning of asylum homes continues
Reply-To: dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Organization: Free University of Berlin
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:32:15 GMT

This was not in the papers this morning, I heard it on the radio (RS2):

A home for asylum seekers in a small town in Brandenburg was
burned to the ground last night. Police were alarmed by a 
German citizen who spoke with asylum seekers who were running
screaming through the streets. All persons were evacuated
from the building and spent the rest of the night on the
floor of a school gym. The police apprehended 2 of the supposedly
3 youths who set the fire. 

In other news, the official reasons why the police were not
active in Rostock:
1) they didn't have enough helmets, some wore their private
   motorcycle helmets
2) they didn't have any of those nifty see-through plexiglass
   shields one needs to fight rock-throwers
3) they were not ordered to do anything about the situation.

So just like the excuses for the Third Reich ("I was only
following orders") we now have "But we weren't ordered to
do anything!". No resignations of order-givers have been
submitted yet.                                  

Stay tuned.

-- 
Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Institut fuer Informatik                 +49 30 89691 124
Nestorstr. 8-9                           (INCLUDE "standard.disclaimer")
D-W-1000 Berlin 31                       (PRINTN (WITTY-MESSAGE TODAY))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: nico@athena.mit.edu (Nicolas Reinecke)
Subject: Re: Krawalle in Rostock
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:20:08 GMT

In article <64641@cup.portal.com>, MacUserLabs@cup.portal.com (Stephan - Somogyi) writes:
|> Ich moechte mich an dieser Stelle bei baier@forwiss.uni-passau.de (Joern
|> Baier) und allen anderen bedanken, die ueber die Rostocker Krawalle, die
|> Reaktionen der Politiker und die Berichterstattung in den deutschen Medien
|> gepostet haben.
|> 
|> Es ist hier in Amiland enorm schwer Nachrichten mit Informationsgehalt zu
|> bekommen. Auch wenn ich eine Glotze haette, wuerde ich bestenfalls
|> inhaltloses Geplapper bereitet bekommen. Und bis mein abonnierter Spiegel
|> ankommt, ist sowieso alles laengst vorbei.
|> 
|> __________________________________________________________________________
|> Stephan Somogyi            puzzle-piece together-putter            MacUser

Vielen Dank auch aus Boston, Nico.