HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:53:20 GMT

>| Again, could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
>| preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
>| Caucasian worker? 

>Obviously, the Caucasian got the preference, did he not?

Obviously not.


>The *overriding* objection to AA is merit.  

The objection to such as AA (at least my objection) is its racism and
sexism basis (two institutions which I object to).

>By explicitly renouncing
>merit in talking about seniority, you're only talking about which
>non-merit approach has a particular result -- and picking one that
>whites do better at without a rational reason not to pick one
>others do better at (AA).

The seniority issue is only brought up by the pro-racism side to cajole
people into feeling good about racism by trying to convince them that
racism is as ordinary and harmless as Uncle Bill working for
General Motors.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
Date: 23 Dec 92 05:50:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa,local

In article <1992Dec18.110001.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
|   We are still in slavery.  We aren't certainly being held 
|   captive in the name of love!

Mr. Hall, your story of slavery and captivity is touching.
Especially since we share the same last name.

While it isn't possible to 'repatriate' everyone, it is possible
to 'repatriate' anyone as desperately unhappy here as you are.

So decide which African country you wish to emigrate too, and
apply for immigration.  Then we can discuss arrangeing your
one way ticket and American citizenship renunciation -- in the
unlikely event you couldn't afford the $1000 or so for airfare.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5469 talk.politics.misc:65492
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:15:57 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Affirmative Action is Dead

>Organization: Penn State University
>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:09:34 EST
>From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Message-ID: <92364.070934KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Newsgroups:
> alt.discrimination,
> talk.politics.misc
>Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
>References: <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com> <1h53p2INNqpq@spim.mti.sgi.com>
> <GPRIORES.92Dec28104345@fish.oracle.com>

>In article <GPRIORES.92Dec28104345@fish.oracle.com>, gpriores@oracle.com      n
>(gordo
>prioreschi) says:
>>
>>In article <1h53p2INNqpq@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike
>>Polen) writes:
>>>Actually, South Africa is a precedent for a society which bases everything
>>>on protecting the power of a racial minority.  AA will be needed to protect
>>>whites by the year 2010.
>>
>>The underlying assumption here is, of course, that AA is
>>"automatically" needed to protect every minority group.
>>
>>Not to mention that I will bet you dollars to donuts that the moment
>>somebody advocates affirmative action to protect _whites_ is the
>>moment we hear the first anti-AA sentiments from certain segments of
>>the liberal camp.
>>
>>                                 Cordially,
>>
>>                                      -g
     The latest census figures extrapolate the white majority in this country
 becoming the minority somewhere around 2050, not the 2010 that someone
 believes
 here.  Hopefully by 2010, let alone 2050, this country will be smart enough to
 not need AA for anyone.  AA is needed because whites still hire whites at the
 expense of more qualified Blacks.  The doors of opportunity are still closed
 for Blacks in many areas and many professions.  Hopefully whites will see the
 problem with some of their hiring practices before too long.  AA is a good
 idea
 and if done correctly, does a lot of good.  Quotas are not part of the AA
 statutes, but some people use quotas because they don't know the statute.  AA
 will never be used to protect white people because white people, at least in
 the foreseeable future, will control the businesses and the government, so
 there will be no need for AA for whites.
From: akennedy@mercury.ncat.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Disappearing Black Colleges?
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:47:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University

Can anyone help me get an internet source for information
concerning the recent rules on closing black colleges in
Mississippi and Louisiana?

Are the cases similar? Were they initiated at the state or
federal level?  Where are they in the legal process?

I'm not too interested in starting flames just yet.  So for now
... just the facts please!

Thanks in advance ...
Alvin

P.S. - If you must email send to akennedy@garfield.ncat.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Keywords: quotas
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 12:58:28 GMT

niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>In article <1992Dec21.025537.4756@leland.Stanford.EDU> jimbo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Godfather of Soul) writes:
>>In article <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes:

>>>  The Clinton administration should provide a test of this type of policy,
>>>as he seems intent on getting a quota cabinet.  He says it should look
>>>like America, but evidently he means this only in a superficial way.
>>>There will apparently be no low-income people or non-college graduates
>>>included, for example.

>>Yeah, that's just what we need.  I hope it DOESN'T look like America
>>because it appears that most Americans want everything but don't
>>want to actually work for anything.

>>A Clinton quote after the "economic summit" was "We don't have all the
>>answers and we probably never will".  I'm glad 43% of the American
>>electorate voted for someone who admits he doesn't have the answers.
>>I'm not sure he evens knows the question.  What utter incompetence.

>Sigh.  Another example of the failure of the American educational
>system.  Reading comprehension, anyone?  There's a big difference
>between "doesn't have ALL the answers" and "doesn't have the answers."
>		      ^^^

>Anyone who claims to have ALL the answers is a liar.  Or a religious
>fundamentalist of some stripe.  Or am I being redundant?

...and anyone who would prefer to vote for someone who _claimed_ to have
all of the answers, rather than one who honestly admitted to not having
_all of the answers_ ... 

Charlie
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
Subject: Re: Parks attempts to respond and doesn't!!!!
Organization: a gora
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:42:33 GMT

In article <92350.073025KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.012737.19706@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
>Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) says:
>>
>>>Would you PLEASE explain why you insist on spelling "black" as "blak"?
>>
>>I don't.
>>
>>
>  As you can see, our own Ms. Parks has responded to the question with her
>usual straight forward answer that gets to the heart of the matter.  In other
>words, she still hasn't answered the question!  In the post following this one,
> she continues to use a spelling of the word I can not find in any dictionary,
>or reference book.  I realize that the exalted Terry Parks knows all, but if
>she is going to make up her own language, and use it on a public network, the
>least she could do is to explain it to us!


  In the past, someone on soc.culture.african said that "blak" was the
proper Afrocentric spelling.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5435 soc.culture.african.american:13173 misc.education:5484
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:00:38 MST
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec21.013929.20621@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.171252.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>> In article <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>>In article <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>>>>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>>>>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
> 
>>>>>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.
> 
>>>>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>>>>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.
> 
>>>>  I was speaking in general.  Like I stated in one of my earlier postings, Ross
>>>>  Perot stated that in times of econmic decline in the U.S. blacks are first to
>>>>  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 
> 
>>> 1.  Union seniority rules
>>> 2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>>> skill, low wage work.
> 
>>  And what about the skilled and educated blacks, like me?  Where do they work?
>>  I can tell you where they end up living.  The salvation army, and the street!
> 
> Really?  Personally, I think you are talking bullshit.  I challenge
> you to provide stats showing the percentage of blacks with college
> educations living on the streets.  You imply it's over 50%, but I'll
> be satisfied if you can show it's over 10%.
> 
> If you end up on the street (something I consider a real possibility
> based on the level of intelligence you have displayed so far on the
> net) it will be becasue of your own stupidity.  That's a factor you
> don't include up above.
>
  Not to mention the fact that I interviewed with over 50 companies.
  I guess racism had nothing to do with it.

  The first step to recovery is acceptance!
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5439 alt.politics.correct:6021 alt.president.clinton:1223 talk.politics.misc:65049
From: gpriores@oracle.com (gordon prioreschi)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:19:42 GMT
	<GPRIORES.92Dec28104345@fish.oracle.com>
	<1hq24rINNq1f@spim.mti.sgi.com>
Organization: Oracle Corp., Belmont CA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1hq24rINNq1f@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen) writes:
> gordon prioreschi) writes:
>|> Mike Polen) writes:
>|> >Actually, South Africa is a precedent for a society which bases everything
>|> >on protecting the power of a racial minority.  AA will be needed to protect
>|> >whites by the year 2010.
>|> The underlying assumption here is, of course, that AA is
>|> "automatically" needed to protect every minority group.
>|> Not to mention that I will bet you dollars to donuts that the moment
>|> somebody advocates affirmative action to protect _whites_ is the
>|> moment we hear the first anti-AA sentiments from certain segments of
>|> the liberal camp.
>Who the hell do you think is in the "liberal camp?"  The first time I
>heard the statement about whites needing AA, was in a speech by the
>head of the Houston chapter of the Anti-Defamation League.

My knowledge of the ADL's politics is limited to awareness of their
pro-Israel stance, which has caused them conflict with anti-Israel
elements on _both_ sides of the political fence. Thus, I am at a loss
to determine from context whether you mean "You're full of shit,
that's a liberal group pushing AA for whites" or "You're full of shit,
that's a conservative group pushing AA in general". Unless your
statement was an expression of violent agreement with something I
said, but I can't think of anything I said about which that would make
sense.

If you meant the former (which seems the more likely), I would draw
your attention to the words "certain segments". I see affirmative
action favoring whites as a very divisive issue for the left. One one
hand is the "government regulation is the One True Road to Happiness"
side, who at least is trying to be colorblind, in a slightly strange
"separate-but-equal" sort of sense; on the other is the "white
capitalist Eurocentric patriarchal oppressors still dominate the
world, and it's racist of you to guarantee quotas to them" team. It's
already quite entertaining watching the cards fall; for example, U.C.
Berkeley (well known for its level-headed political thought) is
currently tapdancing feverishly trying to deal with a large department
(electrical engineering, I believe) that's dominated by a _non-white_
ethnic group.

If you meant the latter, it sure ain't _my_ brand of conservatism, nor
any I have heard of.


One might well speculate briefly that such a stance furthers the ADL's
own political ends, but one might also consider that another rather
messy can of worms.

                               Cordially,

                                    -g
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5425 talk.politics.misc:65004
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:34:55 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,talk.politics.misc
Subject: re: Affirmative Action is Dead

>Organization: Penn State University
>Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:56:45 EST
>From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Message-ID: <92356.085645KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>




>References: <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com>
> <1992Dec21.025537.4756@leland.Stanford.EDU>

>In article <1992Dec21.025537.4756@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
>jimbo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Godfather of Soul) says:
>>
>>In article <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
>writes:
>>>
>>>  The Clinton administration should provide a test of this type of policy,
>>>as he seems intent on getting a quota cabinet.  He says it should look
>>>like America, but evidently he means this only in a superficial way.
>>>There will apparently be no low-income people or non-college graduates
>>>included, for example.
>>
>>Yeah, that's just what we need.  I hope it DOESN'T look like America
>>because it appears that most Americans want everything but don't
>>want to actually work for anything.
>>
>>A Clinton quote after the "economic summit" was "We don't have all the
>>answers and we probably never will".  I'm glad 43% of the American
>>electorate voted for someone who admits he doesn't have the answers.
>>I'm not sure he evens knows the question.  What utter incompetence.
>>
>>James
>>
>>--
   I wholeheartedly disagree with you.  Clinton is a breath of fresh air in the

 Washington political arena.  Here is a man who admits that he doesn't know the
 solutions to every problem.  A man that says he does is full of it, because no
 one can tell us that and be telling the truth.  The economic problems we have
 are complex and intricate.  He admits he doesn't have the answer, but he is
 not
 willing to try!  I don't think this is incompetence at all. Incompetence is
 "trickle down economic", a theory that even the person who was responsible for
 it, disavowed it.  Incompetence is doing nothing and admitting a year into the
 recession that we were actually in one.  That is incompetence.  We have had 12
 years of incompetence in the White House and January 20th will be the end of
 that!

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:04:52 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Dec25.022854.811@samba.oit.unc.edu> Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
| Again, could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
| preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
| Caucasian worker? 

Obviously, the Caucasian got the preference, did he not?

Anyway -- why choose one worker over another in the first place?
If the choice is random, then proportional representation is a valid
demand.
If the choice is merit, then why are you talking about seniority?

The *overriding* objection to AA is merit.  By explicitly renouncing
merit in talking about seniority, you're only talking about which
non-merit approach has a particular result -- and picking one that
whites do better at without a rational reason not to pick one
others do better at (AA).

Does you 'c' key not work in the immediately before a 'k' key or what?

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: In defense of Christopher Gray (was Re: Parks attempts to respond and doesn't!!!!
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:08:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) wrote:
:In article <92358.071033KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
:>In article <BzoKAx.5zI@agora.rain.com>, robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) says:
:>>>>>Would you PLEASE explain why you insist on spelling "black" as "blak"?
:>>
:>>  In the past, someone on soc.culture.african said that "blak" was the
:>>proper Afrocentric spelling.
:>
:>  As a regular reader of the soc.culture.african, and as a Black (with a "c")
:>man, I haven't seen this anywhere.  There is one former poster who used the
:>spelling, but he, by no means is the authority on Afrocentric spellings or
:>what nots. The same person spelled "America" as "Amerikkka", does that mean
:>that the rest of you are going to follow that lead also.  I think I speak for
:>a lot of people on the network by saying that we prefer the typical spelling
:>of the word "Black" and not something that someone calls "Afrocentric"!
:
:
:  Are you talking about Kristofer Gray at Mississippi State?  He doesn't
:seem to be around anymore.  I doubt if he graduated though, since he
:seemed to be really ignorant.


Now *there's* the pot calling the kettle BLAK.

My friend and fellow scaa poster Michael J. Carpenter assures me that
Chris Gray graduated and was probably moving to Chicago.  When he
resurfaces, I hope he gets an account here (on ddsw1) or a similar
Chicago-area system, so he can set yall straight.

I am stupified by the hoot and holler over one man's (and one young
woman's) choice of spelling.  If diversity is about anything, at the
very *least* it's about these relatively piddling things.

Aaron
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: steven@guava.net.com (Steve Nelson)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Keywords: quotas
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Redwood City, CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:31:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.223347.19989@oakhill.sps.mot.com> pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) writes:

[Complaining about Clinton's Cabinet appointments deleted]


>
>He said it would look like America. In fact, it will look more like
>a cross between the Democratic Congressional Caucus and the
>Berkeley faculty.  :-)
>

Please provided detailed demographic information regarding the 
University of California, Berkeley faculty which includes, but is not 
necessarily limited to, data on age, gender, race, educational 
background, economic status, and political party affiliation,
if any.  :-)>

Once the readers have that information, they can determine how closely
Clinton's Cabinet appointments look like a cross between the
Democratic Congressional Caucus and the Berkeley faculty.  Without
that information, in fact, such a comparison is impossible to make. :^)=

>
>Pat
>	Kay Hutchison for U.S. Senate '93


Steve             ROLL ON YOU BEARS!!!      Cal Basketball  4-0 
					    			    	first time since 1967
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:28:54 GMT

>| Could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
>| preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
>| Caucasian worker?

>Wrong question. Given that unions and companies actively discriminated
>in the past, and thus prevented qualified blacks from obtaining a job
>in the first place, Union seniority rules perpetuate the inequity.  

Again, could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
Caucasian worker? Now, if you want to make a case for specific workers
denied employment forty years ago receiving special compensatory treatment,
then please to. However, this is not what the pro-racism side has
taken to task. Instead, they try to use history not to benefit these
victims but to self-servingly give a lifetime of special preferred treatment
to a Blak born today at the expense of their Caucasian nursery-mates.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:56:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.171252.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu>, ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

|>   And what about the skilled and educated blacks, like me?  Where do they work?
|>   I can tell you where they end up living.  The salvation army, and the street!

That's an extraordinarilly small minority. In your case there is an obvious
attitude problem that has caused your situation. Considering the number of
unemployed people who are far more qualified than you and don't have the
attitude problem, you're lucky that you have a job.

Jason W. Solinsky
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5428 soc.culture.african.american:13163 misc.education:5473