From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:17:32 GMT

In article <25863@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <194gpfINNisa@corax.udac.uu.se> flax@mizar.docs.uu.se writes:
>=>In article <25850@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

>=>|> But then you would still have to supply a rationale for the victims of
>=>|> Nazism being accommodated in a Middle Esatern country. Should Israel also
>=>|> be a homeland for gypsies, homosexuals, the insane, Communists, and other
>=>|> groups persecuted by the Nazis?
>=>
>=>You are missing a point here. Israel is a jewish state. 

>No, I think it is you who are missing the point, by not reading what I
>wrote. I made the point that there are people who are Jewish who have
>no connection through their ancestors to any part of what is now "Israel".

But, you forget one thing.  The "average convert" [1]
thing.) will marry a Jew.  Their children will be "1/2" Jewish. [2]
Their grandchildren will be 3/4 Jewish.  Their great grandchildren
will be 15/16ths Jewish.  QED, the "average" descendant of converts
does in fact have quite a connection through their ancestors to Israel.

[1] Although I still maintain that the number of converts is so small
that there is no such thing as an average convert.

[2] Under Halacha (Jewish Law) there is no such thing as a 1/2 Jew.
If a persons mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish.  If the mother is
a convert, the child is just as Jewish as any other child.  However,
since Jeremy is tracing blood lineage to the Romans to try to make a
point, I will use the shorthand x/y Jewish to refer to someone who has
x Jewish ancestors who trace their heritage as Jews way back, out of y
ancestors being counted.


>=>What you are suggesting is that we apply a VICTIM label to all people
>=>mistreated by the Nazis, and ship them to a certain geographical area 
>=>on that criterion. It's like trying to represent music with 1 bit.
>=>The victims are of a broader range than that, and the ranges overlap 
>=>as well. Most important, I feel that it must be _their_ choice.

>On the contrary, I was simply saying that if persecution by the Nazis
>was, as Adam may have suggested, a reason for accommodating (certain)
>people in  Palestine, then why should this facility not be afforded
>to anyone else who wanted it.

Persecution of a group by Nazis made these people choose to leave and
find a new home.  They chose, quite rationally, to return to the home
that their ancestors had left years before, and that they had prayed
to return to for years.

>No. The best way to understand what I am/was saying is to read my postings
>from this thread, without making false assumptions about what my "hidden
>agenda" may or may not be.

I don't need to make false assumptions Jeremy, I know you really have
a hidden Zionist agenda behind your questions.  :)


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19852 talk.politics.soviet:7841 soc.culture.greek:8747 soc.culture.europe:8302 soc.rights.human:3402