HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sadkins@bigbird.cs.ohiou.edu (Scott W. Adkins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: cowboy crushes scratchy on ics
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:18:17 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept., Athens

In article <CUBAN.92Nov12091222@w20-575-31.mit.edu> cuban@athena.mit.edu (Federico A Garcia) writes:
>
>How did you manage to get an automail/mail listing of that game on
>ICS?  Neither of the two commands has worked in weeks.  Is this going
>to be fixed any time soon?

Take a look at the new xboard that works for ICS (available at the valkyries
ftp site).  Since it *is* and xboard program, it will allow you to save your
games, look at previous moves during the game, etc.  I have found it very
useful and have saved several of my games that way, without needing the 
automail facility that used to work on ICS.

Scott

-- 
Don't forget to have a good day!  Some people never remember this.              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------      Scott W. Adkins                   Internet: sadkins@ohiou.edu             
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                             ak323@cleveland.freenet.edu     (Flame me, not the net!)                Bitnet: adkins@ouaccvma.bitnet         -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Ohio University of Athens                                                    Home of the Great Hocking River
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: rryan@panix.com (Rob Ryan)
Subject: Re: Searching for Bobby Fischer
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:13:37 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC
Keywords: movie, chess, waitzkin, bobby fischer

The NY Times had a big spread on it a few weeks ago (near the start of
F-S II).  According to the article (and my failing memory) the movie
actually has little to do with Bobby Fischer, something that I don't
quite understand given the title.  The article made a big thing of 
pointing out that where chess games are involved, if they had a choice
between hiring a chess player or an actor, they went with the chess
player.  I seem to remember that Pandolfini (I think I'm right in that)
was involved as chess consultant.  He accounts the time and effort that
they went to in creating realism (i.e. making sure that mannerisms, like
how they hit the clock, etc., were realistic, making sure that when they
were setting up chess games for Josh to play that they made moves and
mistakes that a really bright youngster would make, etc.).

The article in the NY Times was extensive and if you can dig it up in
your local library, it's a good read.  I'm definitely eager to see the
movie, but I don't remember when it's coming out.

-- Rob

-- 
  Rob Ryan
    Internet:   rryan@panix.com or Robert_Ryan@brown.edu
    Bitnet:     ROBR@BROWNVM
    Compu$erve: 70324.227@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane)
Subject: Re: Looking for comprehensive chess books...
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:13:20 GMT

In <1992Nov10.193437.15258@midway.uchicago.edu> schiller@whorf(Eric Schiller) writes:

>Kostyev: From Beginner to Expert in 40 Lessons

Wonderful book! The first serious book I red after becoming active and
it was a tremendous help.
From: dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Fischer-Polgar Match
Date: 7 Nov 92 14:13:58 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

> 
>>|> But how well would Fischer have done against Polgar when he
>>|> was 16?? 
>
>>  Not too well - Polgar wasn't born yet! ;-)
> 
> When he was 16 Fischer was easily in the top ten in the world, which at the 
> time included such patzers as Tal, Botwinnik, Keres and Smyslov.  If you 
> believe that players now are genuinely better than players thirty years ago
> you might say there are thirty people this good now, but Judit Polgar clearly
> isn't one of them.
>

I agree, Bobby would have mopped up the floor with her.

 
>>|> She should keep improving, given her age.
>>
>>  Indeed!
>>
>>
>>-Ron Birnbaum
> 
> MADNESS

again, i agree. i think ms. polgar has peaked. the reason is that i
sense she has no all consuming love and obsession for the game that
bobby has. she has gotten this far because of her natural talent and
all of the training she got.

to improve beyond this point will require total love and commitment. i
just don't sense that she has that. she will never get any higher than she 
is now and will in fact soon drop to below borris spassky.

don wedding

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ekw@world.std.com (Elliott C Winslow)
Subject: Re: Fischer's strength
Summary: Far less than published accounts would suggest
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution:     world
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:00:06 GMT

I have the impression from various strong players I've talked to or heard
from/about around the country that they feel that Fischer's play is *not*
that good, maybe even in the 2400 range.  This inconsistency is appalling
and unignorable.  Maybe FIDE gives out titles if you play at 2650 for one
tournament and then 2300 for another, but (1) your rating will not get very
high, and (2) if it's from one *game* to another, you'll never win anything
except the brilliancy prize...

--elliott
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Subject: Re: last boring calculations
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:51:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.220051.3290@cis.uab.edu> sloan@willis.cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan) writes:
>
>a) if FIDE actually rated this event, the rating changes would be
>smaller and Fischer's FIDE rating would still be outrageously high
>compared with his present strength.

To be precise, 60 points would be exchanged, resulting in Fischer's 2720
(3rd in the world) and Spassky's 2610 (somewhere around 30th). But it ain't
gonna happen.

>On the other hand...Capablanca did a reasonable job of halting the
>age-induced drop in his rating, and actually got it to start going back
>up again - so Bobby may have one more great shining moment ahead of him.
>But Capa never quite returned to his peak.  On the third hand, Bobby's
>true "peak" might well have been 2950 at age 35-40.  While he may not
>ever reach that level, he may well make it back to a "mere" 2800.

While predictions are hard to make, I see no indication that he could 
improve that much. He would have to beat Judith convincingly to make me
doubt.

	Sven
From: jph@stein.u.washington.edu (Jeff Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Where did they get these names?
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:03:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov5.160353.13676
Distribution: na
Organization: Hardly any

In article <1992Nov5.032458.25528@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Oliver) writes:
>I was wondering if anybody was familiar with the derivation of the names of
>the following attacks and openings:
>
>1)Giucco Piano - 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. Bc4 Bc5

	This is Italian for quiet game.  It got its name when 4. d3 was the
most popular line and the King's Gambit was popular.  The 4. d3 line is now
sometimes called the Giucco Pianissimo, or very quiet game.

>If anybody has any others to add to the list....

	How about:
8) The Siclian Defence, Dragon variation.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ctepedel@nyx.cs.du.edu (cihan tepedelenlioglu)
Subject: ****ALEKHINE'S DEATH****
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 19:30:45 GMT

	Does anyone know the reason of Alekhine's death.?(brief question)
From: elkies@brauer.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: F-S II Wrap-Up
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:56:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov7.135632.17201
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov7.025750.17194@husc3.harvard.edu>
fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry) writes:
>[...]
>Some think Fischer may actually prefer to play in sanctioned tournaments, 
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^
Is this as in "approved" or "boycotted"? :-)

>[...]    Maybe the K-K matches, the rise of young non-Soviets, and 
>the new accelerated time controls should have drug me out of 
>"retirement," but they didn't.                ^^^^

Cute.

Thanks again for posting the match games and information!

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
==============================================================
fermat(p,v)= v=cf(p/abs(centerlift(sqrt(mod(-1,p)))));\
	[1,0]*pnqn(vector(length(v)\2,n,v[n]))
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: epstein@rene.ma.utexas.edu (Paul Epstein)
Subject: Why not 1.b3?
Organization: University of Texas at Austin Mathematics
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:40:50 GMT

In particular, why is this move so much rarer than 1.g3?
From: dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: FISCHER WINS GAME 30!!!!
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:42:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: uoft02.1992Nov5.144209.10987
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Hey,

i just heard on the radio that Fischer won the 30th game
against Spassky in 27 moves. 

can anybody confirm this????


Don Wedding
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Subject: Gaprindashvilli's strength (was re: Fishcer with odds)
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:20:09 GMT

Reality check guys.  I'm pretty sure Gaprindashvilli didn't make her first
GM norm until well after Fischer had stopped playing.  When Fischer made
his notorious remark in the early '60s she was probably about a 2300 player,
and it's quite probable he could've given her knight odds.  I don't know
whether there's any record of his giving odds in a non blitz setting, but
Darrach recounts an incident in '72 when he gave Lombardy a rook and nearly
won.  Lombardy was much stronger than Gaprindashvilli at the time, and rook
odds are *much* harder than knight odds.

MADNESS
From: carabalo@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David G. Caraballo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Chess MIPS
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:28:11 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <9790016@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jhs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Stanback)
writes:   [in response to Jerry Meyers <tasst2+@pitt.edu>]

> None of the PC chess programs that I'm aware of make any use of
> a math co-processor.  My experience is that 386-DX machines are
> considerably faster than 386-SX machines since they have a 32 bit
> bus and usually have a cache memory.  Zarkov, for example, runs more
> than twice as fast on a 386-DX33 as on a 386-SX20.  A 486-DX33 is about
> twice as fast as a 386-DX33.  I think that a 486-SX20 would be about
> 22% faster than a 386-DX33 although I don't have any experience with either
> of these processors.

386-DX40's are now VERY cheap and might be as fast (i.e., MIPS) as a 
486-SX20.  I'm sure these figures are readily available somewhere.  Both 
chips use a 32-bit bus, unlike the 386-SX.  I've priced 386-DX40 
motherboards (board, chip, 0K memory) at around $220.  I would certainly not 
buy a 386-SX, regardless of the clock speed on the chip, since the inferior 
bus is much slower.

Incidentally, a Software Toolworks technician told me that a newer version of
Chessmaster 3000 for Windows was just released to their testing division and
may go out relatively soon if no major bugs are found.  Apparently, an earlier
update, scheduled for release, was found to have numerous bugs during 
testing, and that is the reason for the delay.

DGC
From: fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage])
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: ICS Ratings -- Average Ratings -- Provisional Ratings
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:39:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Nov12.203935.26823
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

jriechel@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU writes
> 
> Why not start newcomers ratings to zero, and reset all currently rated
> players, also, to a rating of zero?  If your rating was ever exactly
> zero, then the system could be programmed to display =PAR= instead of 0.
> 
> With this system, there would be no pretension to approximating the USCF
> and FIDE systems.  Of course, it would still use Elo's equations, but it
> would LOOK DIFFERENT.  Which is usually enough to convince people it's
> unique.
> 
> James Riechel

but perhaps it's not a good idea for the ICS to be different from the USCF/FIDE  
ratings.  I think ICS has a good potential for estimating the strength of chess  
programs, for example.  Another example is the chessplayer who does not play OTB  
regularly.  Besides using ICS to keep his chess sharp, he can also use it to gauge  
how he is doing in general.  But this is not useful if ICS and USCF are not even  
similar.  It's even worse if ICS looks like USCF but is 300 or so points off....

--
The secretary says he's on another line.  
Can I hold for a long, long time?   -TMBG
Michael Schmahl a.k.a. Black-Robe Mage
From: fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage])
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Quick chess (Was: Possible fixes for ICS)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:47:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Nov12.204726.27218
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

Benjamin Lin writes
> In article <1992Nov10.020100.11181@raven.alaska.edu>  
fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage]) writes:
> >I have an idea which may help....  This should work like USCF's quick-rating  
> >and correspondence system.  During the registration process, you should ask  
> >for a player's USCF or FIDE rating, and if they have one, use this rating  
> >b/10.  Also, have the first 10 or 15 games count toward both the regular and  
> >blitz ratings.
> 
> So is this how USCF quick chess ratings work???  You start off with your
> regular rating and then they go their separate ways?  I guess something
> like this is necessary to rate tournaments in which no one has a quick
> chess rating.  The local club is trying to hold a quick chess tournament
> in the near future.  Any advice on what needs to be done differently from
> regular tournaments?  Any special forms needed?
> 
> >The secretary says he's on another line.  
> >Can I hold for a long, long time?   -TMBG
> >Michael Schmahl a.k.a. Black-Robe Mage  
> 
> Particle Man   -TMBG
> 
> -benoni

If you're organizing a quick-chess tournament, just decide whether it's G/10 or  
G/15, and use the normal USCF tournament report form.  The new form has a check-off  
area for [] Regular Tournament, [] 1/4K Tournament, or [] Quick-Chess Tournament.   
If you're using the old form without this check-off, I suggest you write the USCF  
to get the new form, since it has some other new things on it, and at the top of  
your report mark boldly (and preferably in red) "G/10 - Quick Chess" (or G/15,  
depending).  No special forms.  Also, quick-chess is automatically quarter-k (which  
I think is kind of silly since it has it's own system anyway).

BTW are you going to implement the changes on ICS to help approximate USCF?

--
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople -TMBG
Michael Schmahl a.k.a. Black-Robe Mage  
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: linb@ucs.orst.edu (Benjamin Lin)
Subject: Re: 1.e4 c5 miniature
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:42:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.020702.5417@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> qazqaz@Muir.Stanford.EDU (Mike Perkins) writes:
>
>I just played another fun miniature with Psion as black:
>
>1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.o-o Nxe4 5.Re1 f5? 6.d3 Qb6? 7.Bxd7+ Bxd7
>8.de4 Be7 9.ef5 ef5 10.Bg5 Be6 11.Bxe7 Kxe7 12.Ng5 Qxb2? 13.Rxe6+ Kf8 14.Qd8++
>
>It's probably obvious I don't usually play 1.e4 in real games. Was the pawn
>sac 4.o-o sound?
>

Hmm... I dunno, but this reminds me of a Ivanchuk-Kasparov game:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5 Nd7 4.d4 Nf6 5.o-o cxd4

What's wrong with 5...Nxe4 ?

-benoni
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Illegal moves during Tournament
From: nason@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:17:52 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: nason

With all the talk of the "Half point forfeit", it got me thinking about
something that happened to me.  In a tournament game my opponent made an
illegal en-passant move.  I let it slide, it was my first tournament and blah
blah blah, well, I was stupid. The game ended, I signed my scoresheet and
waited for my next pariring.  Then I got to thinking about it.  I looked it up
in the rules and verified that it was illegal.  I asked the TD about it and he
said that, yes that is illegal as they get.  However, because I signed the
scoresheet the there was nothing that could be done.   I had to raise exception
during the game.  

At the time the move was made, I thought it was illegal, but did not want to
make a fool of myself.  I also thought that I could raise the issue after the
game.  I guess not.  

Is this true or is there some appleal I can apply.  I am not going to, but am
curious about the rules, appealing and all that, more for future reference.  

Any thoughts out there.

Thanks
-- 
My opinions are my own and not those of my company.  
Free advice is worth its cost.  
--- John M. Nason - NA9U ---|--------------------------------------------|
Inland Steel Company        |  -- nason@pa881a.inland.com                |
Process Automation Dept.    |  -- Fax:   219-399-7856                    |
			    |  -- Voice: 219-399-2450                    |
----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan)
Subject: Re: Why I Hate the ICS rating system.
Organization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.164847.4789@hsr.no> onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam) writes:
>>In article <baljeual.721071691@uther> baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu) writes:
>>>sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan) writes:
>>>
>>>>What are the *goals* of the ICS system?  Is the intent to match USCF
>>>>ratings?  Player-by-player (for those with ratings in each system)?
>>>>Statistically? How detailed?  Mean and std dev?
>>>
>>>If you ask me, I think a good goal is to have a player of constant strength
>>>have a constant rating.  Then a person can tell if (s)he is improving,
>>>staying the same, or going senile.  Other than that, it doesn't really matter
>>>to me.
>>>
>>
>>Good.  That's a reasonable goal.  Now - do you have any ideas on how to
>>achieve that goal?  I don't.
>>-- 
>>Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
>>sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
>
>Set the provisional rating to the average! That solves the problem. Then this
>rating will become an attractor for the average. (Or we could just wait until the
>average reaches the current provisional rating, 1000) 

Nice try.  Let's see how that works under the following assumptions:

0) you enter the pool, with your average strength and average ability.
   Suppose there are 10,000 players in this pool, all with perfect
   ratings, and your strength entitles you to the average rating.

1) the system becomes popular, and 20,000 new players enter.  Alas,
   chess players just aren't as good as they used to be, so the average
   strength of the 20,000 new players is well below the average
   strength of the existing pool.  So - what happens to *your* rating,
   assuming that your strength does not change?   Calculate it.

Your goal was to have your rating remain the same, because your strength
remains the same.  Does your proposal meet that goal?

Read Elo!  If not for enlightenment, then as a tribute.  

-- 
Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station 
(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
From: fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage])
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Possible fixes for ICS  (Was: Why I Hate the ICS rating system.)
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:01:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Nov10.020100.11181
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

Richard V. Nash writes
> In article <1992Nov3.195552.13132@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>  
> jacobson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Eliot T. Jacobson ) writes:
> >   RAISE THE INITIAL PROVISIONAL RATING FROM 1000 TO SOMETHING MORE  
REALISTIC.
> 
> Unless the current administrators have changed something, there is _no_  
initial  
> provisional rating. You only acquire a rating after you play your first  
rated  
> person. If you win you are their rating + 400, if you loose you are their  
> rating - 400, or if you draw you get their rating.
> 
> I do agree that ICS ratings are way below USCF or FIDE ratings. I also  
agree  
> that the average rating seems to be dropping. I think it is because more  
weak  
> players (like me) have been joining.
> 
> Anyway, the code that does the ratings calculation is simple and I will  
provide  
> it to anyone who asks.
I have an idea which may help....  This should work like USCF's quick-rating  
and correspondence system.  During the registration process, you should ask  
for a player's USCF or FIDE rating, and if they have one, use this rating  
b/10.  Also, have the first 10 or 15 games count toward both the regular and  
blitz ratings.

Also I have noticed that there is a base rating for when you assess a new  
player.  I get a negative draw value.  I think either a) calculate the new  
player first, or b) use a 1500 base value...

Hope this helps.
--
The secretary says he's on another line.  
Can I hold for a long, long time?   -TMBG
Michael Schmahl a.k.a. Black-Robe Mage  
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun)
Subject: Re: Gnufour on ICS
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:44:20 GMT

In <BxKBqL.8L8@news.orst.edu> linb@ucs.orst.edu (Benjamin Lin) writes:

>You must have been playing it as an unregistered played.  I've noticed
>that when logged in as unreg, I can crush gnufour w/o much problem,
>but when logged in as benoni, I get smushed!  Is it just psychological,
>or does gnufour intentionally let unreg players win?
No, I play it only as a registered player, I played it
only one time as unreg, when the ratings server
was down, but this game was registered.
If it ever shows it's face on ICS again, I will trounce it
even more completely! :-)

-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------
bix: ruzun
NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess