HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: CHP AIRCRAFT & SPEEDERS
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:44:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24444
Reply-To: ark@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ

In article <1272@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com> rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill) writes:

> Nonsense. Does a 65mph speed limit say you cannot exceed 65, or does
> it mean you cannot exceed 65 for at least x seconds.

When I got my driving license in New York, it was legal to exceed
the speed limit for short periods of time while passing other cars.
That may have changed since then; I don't know.
-- 
				--Andrew Koenig
				  ark@europa.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: rmt@pioneer.net.com (Richard Tweedie)
Subject: Re: Past the speed of sound...
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:52:11 GMT

In article <987@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> mpeters@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters) writes:
>Sorry about the previous blank postings.
>
>Several years ago at OshKosh, there was a prop driven airplane on
>display that was partially constructed and was being built to break
>the sound barrier.  It was a pusher and had razor thin wings and
>stabilizers.  I believe it was constructed out of aluminum.  The
>work was impressive.  The building team were soliciting donations
>and selling T-shirts in an effort to support the project.
>
>Does anybody know what has become of it?
>
>-- 
>Michael Peters

I spent some time with the guy (a friend of a friend) that was doing
this
project (at the Livermore, Ca. airport at the time).  My friend was
trying to get me involved to help with the project.  There were
many different parts to this project--heavy skin aluminum shell for
the basic fuselage, carbon fiber tail and prop, fiberglass fairings,
something for everybody.  It was an interesting day, some good 
workmanship in places, but he was depending on getting 2,000+ H.P.
out of a olds V8 block.  This was something that my drag racing
experience made me feel would be impossible for the length of 
time needed to get the record.  Famed Air Race pilot Bob Love was
scheduled to be the pilot before he passed away.

IMHO the airplane would have been quite dangerous to fly--minimal
wing area with a potentially very unreliable engine.  There were
supposedly two NASA engineers from Ames helping him.  I think it
was called the "mach 1".  The carbon fiber prop he had at the time
was probably unuseable--they were lookin for another one.  Handmade
with special cross section, I think it was schmitar shaped.

Rich Tweedie
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro)
Subject: Need accident information
Organization: Franz Inc., Berkeley, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:08:53 GMT

 I'm trying to get some information on an airplane accident involving a friend
of a friend.   The only details I know are that the plane with four people
left the Bay Area last week headed down the coast and the occupants weren't 
missed until they failed to show up for work on Monday.  Subsequently,
parts of the plane were found on the shoreline near Santa Barbara. 
If anyone has any more information on this I'd like to know.  Thanks.

 -sean
 jkf@franz.com

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: niles@parc.xerox.com (Les Niles)
Subject: Re: Creature of habit?
Organization: Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, CA
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:03:44

In article <87330006@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins) writes:
>OK, I admit it:  I have always been skeptical of the reports from pilots to
>the effect that when they get back into the car, they sometimes try to fly it.
>... What I'm trying to say is that it happened to me.

I suffered a slight variant of this last week.  I'm working on my
instrument ticket.  Got into my truck after a morning of NDB
approaches, started the engine and noticed that the radio/tape
deck wasn't working.  No sound, no display, no clock.  First
reaction: Radio failure, shut the engine off, can't go anywhere.

Even after realizing that this wasn't an airplane and I wasn't IFR,
driving back to work without the radio was somewhat disconcerting.

  -les  niles@parc.xerox.com
        Skylane N2461G
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: stevek@netcom.com (Steve Kile)
Subject: Re: Ham radio forbidden in plane?
Keywords: ham, amateur radio
Organization: Netcom Communications - San Jose, CA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:08:03 GMT

In article <921218105415@AltaHopa.ftp.com> plummer@babyoil.ftp.com writes:
>In my studies I came across an FAR that seemed to forbid use of
>amateur radio equipment, not only a transmitter, in a plane.  Is
>this correct?  If so, is the idea to prevent interference with the
>plane's radios?  Is this a real possibility with properly aligned
>equipment?  --Bill

I really don't want this to escalate into the ongoing flame wars of the past
but nobody has really answered Bill's question.  The applicable FCC rule is
part 97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.  The applicable FAR is 91.21
Portable electronic devices.

Steve

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ron@etch-eshop.Berkeley.EDU (Ronald Viegelahn)
Subject: Flying flea info wanted
Reply-To: ron@etch-eshop.Berkeley.EDU (Ronald Viegelahn)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:34:44 GMT





 Hello rec.aviators

 I'm looking for some information on an airplane named
" HM290, Flying Flea ". The plans & a kit are marketed
by a Canadian Co. Falconar Ltd of Edmonton, Alberta.

 I posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt, but got almost no
response. Thought I'd try here.

 I received they're info pack and got interested enough
to buy the plans. I'm considering building the Ultralight
version.

 What I'm looking for is opinions/pros cons whatever on this
unusual design. This aircraft is a staggered wing bipe? type
who's attitude is controlled by pivoting the forward most wing
witch is mounted higher that the rear wing/stablizer. There is
no conventional stablizer/elevator. No airlerons just rudder.

 The big pitch is they claim that this plane will not spin or
stall like a conventional tailed plane can.

 Hopefully someone out there will know something about this 
unusual airplane. I'd sure like to get some educated input
before I decide to build one of these.


				Thanks to all

				Ron Viegelahn

				ron@etcheshop.Berkeley.EDU
From: verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Sailplane license
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:17:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: aosg.1992Dec14.151734.16881
Distribution: usa
Organization: AOSG


>	I have wanted to do this for so long after a brief collegiate stint
>with hang gliding: get a sailplane license.  The folks who advertise now 
>(1-800-SOARING) have an offer for 3 takeoffs and landings.

>-Are sailplanes expensive to purchase and maintain (and transport)?
>-Finally, should I forget the ($200) offer with the above folks and just go
>straight to an instructor (although, I guess the experience will help me
>decide to really proceed or not...but I don't think that will be a problem :-)

The people who offer these rides are simply agents - they don't own or operate
any aircraft, they just contract with local FBOs, and they charge alot of money
for the rides.  You would save money if you went to a gliderport yourself and
eliminated the middle man.  The commercial gliderport that I fly out of charges
$42 per lesson - that's alot better than 3 for $200.  A recent posting in
rec.aviation.soaring lists the phone number of the Soaring Society of America.
They can direct you to the nearest gliderport.

Go for it! It's a gas!

Tony V.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sherman@sofbas.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Subject: Where are resumes and jobs in aviation posted?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 DEC 92 15:32:05 EST



Is there an appropriate place in this or another Internet News Group in which
to (1) post a resume and/or (2) look for a job in aviation?


Thanks -

ken

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Flying flea info wanted
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:56:34 GMT

I am unfamiliar with the company that you mention, but know of a relatively
old design by the same name.  Is this based on the plane that was originally
built by Mignet in France?  If so, I can give you a bit of general information
about the design itself, but not the company marketing it.
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: GA Safety (was:Re: AIRLINE IN-FLIGHT REFULEING
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:13:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center

You might try real hard to show that GA is safer than cars, but the
sad truth is that they are pretty much the same as motorcycles. NTSB
rates these things in deaths per 100,000 pasanger miles, and for
motorcycles it is just over 6, and for GA it is just under 6. 

I for one find this depressing, but I keep flying (although I have
quit riding motorcycles) on the rationalization that on motorcycles
the biggest danger is that cars do not see you, and they kill you.
In an airplane the biggest killer is flying VFR into IMC without
the ticket (or having the ticket and not filing because it is not
too much farther. So, on the motorcycle the biggest killer is beyond
the driver's control, but as a pilot I can choose to NEVER EVER push
on into bad weather. The big question in my mind is: What are the GA
statistics if the VFR into IMC deaths are "removed"? 

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Lycoming, old used up motors
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:50:18 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <Bz5IEB.Bxu@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, dutch@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (FLYING DUTCHMAN) writes:
> 
> First of all motors are electric you are looking for an engine.

I used to nitpick about this too, but then I got to thinking about the term
"rocket motor" and spend an afternoon poking around Webster's finest.

A "motor" is something that imparts motion. For a vehicle, the mechanism that
provides propulsion is properly termed a motor.

An "engine" is any complex mechanical contrivance. (This is also used in a
physical/metaphysical sense -- eg the engines of war)

Typical use, however, confines the term "motor" to mean an electric motor,
and an "engine" to mean a motor that converts chemical to mechanical energy.

Except in the case of "rocket motor". ("Rocket engine"?) <grin>

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pscotto@MtHolyoke.edu (Peter J. Scotto)
Subject: Info needed on Mew Gull
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:54:14 GMT


I'm posting this for my brother who does not have access to the net:

Does anyone know where to obtain information on the Perciville
Mew Gull, a British racing craft of the 1930's.  Particularly
interested in drawings and photographs.

--Peter Scotto (for this brother Stephen)
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Lycoming, old used up motors
Date: 16 Dec 1992 13:18:46 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <6552.2b2e6f3a@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>Except in the case of "rocket motor". ("Rocket engine"?) <grin>

No grin necessary: SSME expands to "space shuttle main engine". (Those are the
ones that burn hydrogen and oxygen, and come three to a shuttle.)
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: GPS/LORAN information needed???
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:56:31 GMT

RandyL@MCES.MsState.Edu (Randy Loper) writes:

[Question on the KLN-90 data base]

>Does this system contain an alert feature for restricted airspace?

I assume so, since the KLN-88 has this.  (The KLN-88 has no vertical
information, just outline penetration alert, while the KLN-90 has
full 3-D information if enough birds are visible in a good geometry.)

>How is the database updated (magnetic cards, sent back to factory,
>new rom chip, etc.)?

The KLN-90 advertisements say you have a choice of cartridge replacement
or 3-1/2" disks for use with a (user-provided) laptop.  I'm assuming
that this means MSDOS-compatible disks.

Since I bought my KLN-88 a few years ago and King won't take it as
an even-swap trade-in  :8-)  I won't be likely to be able to offer
any real-life experiences with the box.  Besides, I'm short of real
estate on my panel.

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mf@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (fusco,marc)
Subject: Sailplane license
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 19:00:39 GMT

Hi,

	I have wanted to do this for so long after a brief collegiate stint
with hang gliding: get a sailplane license.  The folks who advertise now 
(1-800-SOARING) have an offer for 3 takeoffs and landings.
They say that this will credit my record toward what I need to get the license.
They also note that the sailplane license is given based on the number
of takeoffs and landings (around 20-30) and is pretty subjective (its left 
up to the instructor how well you are progressing).
-What can I realistically expect (given 'average' learning curve) to need
in lessons before I get the license (also the amount I may spend for lessons, 
etc.)?
-Also, how how does one rent a sailplane (hourly rates?)?
-Is it expensive to rent (especially the tow)?
-What other _gear_ do I need (e.g., radio)?
-Are sailplanes expensive to purchase and maintain (and transport)?
-Finally, should I forget the ($200) offer with the above folks and just go
straight to an instructor (although, I guess the experience will help me
decide to really proceed or not...but I don't think that will be a problem :-)

Thanks in advance!

Marc
mf@cc.bellcore.com
From: beglin@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Gordon Beglin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:57:09 GMT
Reply-To: beglin@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Gordon Beglin)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.aviation.owning, ark@s1.gov (Alene Kercheval) writes:
>
>Here's another data point.  My Musketeer sat outside for about 15
>years in Livermore, Ca.  Now we don't get a lot of rain in California,
>especially lately, but we got enough that the end rib of the vertical
>stabilizer corrded away and, as the moisture ran down the inside of
>the tail, so did the spars.

Bad news, to say the least....

>
>So here's something to consider: the hangar fee is something fixed you
>can reliably budget for, but something like replacing the tail can be
>an awful shock to your wallet.

True! Sure would be nice if there were affordable hangaring around
the D.C. area, especially Frederick.

The closest hangar available is $250.00/mo. For that price, I can
have the plane re-painted every-other year and still have enough
left over for a bi-annual internal coating of ACF-50.

So, for me at least, I'd *love* to be able to hangar my 172---
if there was affordable hangaring around! $250.00/mo for a hangar
vs. $75.00 for a tie-down is a lot of difference to me.

If you have hangar space that isn't a complete rip-off and you can't
write it off (business-wise), then there isn't much of an alternative...

From one who wishes for only a "T" hangar....

Gordon Beglin
C172-L N19776
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:46:29 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <Uf9xxrK00WB2R3Pm82@andrew.cmu.edu> jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Dunkle) writes:
!Open Question:  Does hangering "pay for itself" in terms of "measurable"
!savings?

!As some who've seen my recent posts, I'm a relatively new to avnet and
!am an officer in a flying club in the Pittsburgh area which operates 2
!172s and 1 152.  We have currently 36 members.  The planes are not, nor
!have they ever been, hangered.  The club's operated this way since its
!founding over 20 years ago.  Some of us more progressive types (members
!10 years or less) want to hanger them.....primarily because our avionics
!repair bill runs about 2 thousand dollars or more a year, let alone
!paint and interior deterioration.  We do not even use window sun blocks.

!Does any one have "good" data either from direct experience or known
!data, as opposed to "impressions" that hangering saves expenses roughly
!equivalent to its expense.  At our airport we pay $25/month/plane to tie
!down...enclosed hangers are $150/month/plane (with the usual long
!waiting list).  Therefore, can we expect to "save" more than the
!$1,500/year delta per plane that hangaring costs over tie-down.  

!I've estimated avionics deterioration, paint, and interior problems, as
!well as lost use due to snow and ice which inhibits weekend fliers in
!winter....but can't "prove" my point to the old guard's satisfaction. 

I doubt if you can in fact prove your point economically.

If you always used sun screens your avionics bill would decrease
significantly. So that's the first step. 

Then think about this: A good strip and repaint with Imron or similar
will last at least 6-8 years and cost about $6k including some 
modest interior work. So at $1800/yr for a hangar less $300 for
tiedown gives you a net savings of $1500/yr by not hangaring. So
you break even in 4 years on a new paint job and modest interior
work. If the paint goes 8 years then you will have `saved' $6000
less any extra avionics work and use loss due to ice and snow.

Generally hangaring is not an economic decision UNLESS security
is a problem.

What would really pay-off is an open sided roofed `hangar' at
about $75/mo. You get most of the benefits of a fully enclosed
hangar at about 50-60% of the cost. However, there are not
many of those in this part of the country and those around
are fully booked.

Dave Rogers
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Sunscreens
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:21:38 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Dec12.025622.11574@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella) writes:
>
>AW COME-ON!! A bannana owner like you doesn't know what is a bannana!

Yes, it's that yellow fruit, sort of longist that my wife insists that
I eat for the potassssiuuuum.

>I see by your by-line that you have an A-33...

Either I mistyped it or you misread it. The aircraft is an E-33A

>We owned one from 1970 to 1979.  Can't say much fer or agin it.  I certainly
>learned ALL about blowing exhaust gaskets... Hauled a nice load, however, and
>is a little forgiving in unforseen icing coditions.
> Then we got a Mooney 201;

The A-33 has a different engine which is well known for the exhaust gasket
problem. Suppossedly there are now `blow-proof' gaskets available.

>10 knots faster and 2 GPH less fuel burn.

I looked at the Mooney 201 when looking for this aircraft and did not
like it. Too small--you don't get the additional performance without
reducing the `equilvalent flat plate area' which translates into
a much smaller cabin area. Also both the design and construction
quality are not there. After all it started life as a `homebuilt'.

>But then the kids were pretty well grown by then and we did not need the 
>larger cabin space..

>The Mooney was and still is a great follow-up re the A-33;
>(Most of my flying is now solo).

One the real problems I have with a Mooney is because I am rather
short legged the control column is just about in my chest and
no adjustable rudder pedals.

To each his own.

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (Brent Boswell)
Subject: Re: Wanted parts/sources for AC-500B
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:19:04 GMT

In article <SHARP.R-101292142536@lasersharp.apple.com>  
SHARP.R@APPLELINK.Apple.com (Randy L. Sharp) writes:
> I just bought a Twin Commander 1964 AC-500B and I need to find a reliable
> source for parts and related items.
> 
> If anyone can help I would appreciate the assistance.
> 
> Thanks in advance! 
> 
> Capt RL Sharp
> The ultimate vertical Flight experience.
> HH-60G... Fly Safe!
> AC-500B Twin Commander "N6367U", My Baby C130
As a personal aircraft????   I put gas in these monsters all the time at the  
FBO I work for...never have seen a personal one.  Commander 114's however...

Is yours a turboprop or piston?

How is it on fuel consumption?
From: bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:12:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning

In article <Uf9xxrK00WB2R3Pm82@andrew.cmu.edu>, Jeffrey Dunkle
<jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Open Question:  Does hangering "pay for itself" in terms of "measurable"
>savings?
>

My insurance company gives a 10% discount for a closed, secure hangar.  That
amounts to about a 1.5 months of hangar rent for us.  If you factor in a new
paint job and interior more often without being inside, you might come close to
justifying it financially.

However, you can't put a price on the convenience and peace of mind of having
the airplane inside.  How often will you save clearing off snow and frost every
winter?  How much more comfortable will it be to get into a cool cockpit in the
summertime?  How calm will your nerves be when the wind moves into double
digits or the thunderstorms and hail move through or the sand blows?

A shelter that someone else suggested is simply not good enough in my opinion.
It protects the airplane from a lot of the sun, but does not improve security,
keep the snow out, or let you walk away from a half completed project at the
end of the day.

This is not just a financial decision.  It is a lot like general aviation: you
may not be able to justify it by just adding up the dollars.

Bill Standerfer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:01:31 GMT

In article <75340009@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer) writes:

>However, you can't put a price on the convenience and peace of mind of having
>the airplane inside.  

Plus there's room for a bunch of other stuff (if you have a high wing
aircraft). I'm currently on a waiting list for a hangar which will cost
me $160 per month. Temporary storage facilities for my boat and other
space fillers would cost $110 per month. In effect, putting the plane
in a hangar will cost me $50 a month - which is what I'm paying for
tie-down now!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | The origin of the English slang term "boffin"
                    | for scientist is not known; however, it has been
George Patterson -  | pointed out that the eggs of the Puffin are perfect
                    | obloids which always return to the same position
                    | if pushed and that this is also true of the ideas
                    | expressed by boffins.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning