From: chris@unicorn.resun.com (Chris Von Hendy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Vikki's Problems With Kerry&Me
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 12:26:18 PST(-800)
Organization: The White Bull
Reply-To: chris@unicorn.resun.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v3


In article <1gmptvINNmnp@agate.berkeley.edu> (soc.bi), rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
> Mike, who I secretly adore, says:

> ->By default, though, I have more than my usual set of
> ->reservations when the situation of man-topping-woman arises.  It's not
> ->wrong - such moralistic simplifications are worse than useless.  I just
> ->want to be that bit much more sure that I'm not doing anything which
> ->reinforces the things I hate the most.  Maybe this is less than you
> ->meant by "problem" - I suspect it is.  I wanted to raise the point
> ->anyway.

I think that the key issue here is whether the female bottom enjoys
being topped by a male.  To me this is an intrical part of consent
(although admittedly not everyone would agree with this as a definition
of consent.)
> 
> I don't cringe anymore when I think of topping Kerry.  My feelings regarding
> the subject vary from "No thank you, not right now, I'm tired" to "YES."  

I assume that she is able to have the same response to being topped. 
I'm making this assumption from what both you and her have said about
the relationship.  This is why I see nothing wrong with the
relationship.  Nor do I feel that Kerry automatically needs counseling
(of any sort) because of her past.  I am all too aware that it is
possible for a person to overcome rather severe emotional trauma
without aid from professionals.  If this works for Kerry (and only she
can decide what works) then more power to her.  I respect her choice
even though it is not exactly the same one I would have used.
> 
> ->I was pro-Dworkin/MacKinnon.  I'd now call myself sympathetic to their
> ->views, and still puzzling over the best stance.  (For anyone unsure,
> 
> I see ... I'm really not trying to attack you, I'm trying to understand what
> the difference between being 'pro' Dworkin and being sympathetic to Dworkin
> is.  One of the more memorable things that I believe she's said is that all
> het intercourse is rape.  Do you believe this? Again, I'm not trying to
> debate you, as much as just try to understand your position.

I can't speak for Mike but one difference might be related to agreeing
with her opinion on het intercourse, and understanding how she might
have come have that opinion.
> 

(Lots of stuff deleted on which I have no opinions)
> 
> ->>-roy, who's listening to NIN and therefore probably slightly hostile right
> ->> now, in addition to suddenly feeling rather toppish :)
> ->
> ->I gotta say, I would *never* have pegged you for Nine Inch Nails, Roy
> ->(except, perhaps, as implements :-)  "Assume Nothing" applies again ...
> 
> Two comments:
> A) I wasn't a NIN type.  Kerry loves NIN ("Bow down before the one you serve,
>    you're going to get what you deserve" hasn't failed to make her shiver
>    yet), and it's catching.  Great topping music, IMHO.

Sounds like it's pretty good bottom music as well.  Somehow I suddenly
feel like I need to go out and find some of this music.  What is the
name of the song that line is from?
> 
> B) I am actually working on some kind of an arrangement with gloves and some
>    type of press-on nails for a scritching/scratching implement.  

Shiver, drifting off into pleasurable  memories of last night, but very
glad to find no teeth or nail marks this morning. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Von Hendy            "If we shadows have offended,
Escondido, California       Think but this, and all is mended,
ncr-sd!blkhole!chris  or    That you have but slumbered here,
chris@unicorn.resun.com     While these visions did appear." Puck

Newsgroups: soc.bi