HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccjwm@marlin.jcu.edu.au (John Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Suggestions about 1Cor.14:22-25?
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:07:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: geneva.Oct.14.22.07.48.1992.25167
Organization: James Cook University

In article <Oct.13.01.28.08.1992.21998@geneva.rutgers.edu> kmm@cs.purdue.edu (Kevin Megill) writes:
>	But if you prophesy to each other when you meet together, 
>	then God is clearly present in your midst, and your meetings
>	will really be a testimony to any stranger who wanders in.
>	He will see that God is truly present and speaking.  Everything any
>	one says will convict him with its truth.  He will be
>	brought face to face with the presence of the Lord, and
>	will fall down in worship.  [The primary thing that touches
>	him will not be the things the prophecies say, but the fact
>	that he is in God's presence.] 
>

I've heard this answer many times before.  What always seems to be 
left off this type of answer is a definition of the kind of prophecy 
that is meant.

Is it for example any of the following types of statements?

	The world will end on Oct 28!   :-)

	Repent and believe and you'll be saved!

	Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.

	Pray for one another.

	He was crucified and rose again.


What say you?

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From: regy105@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (James Haw)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Any online Chinese Bible?
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:47:59 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Hi,
   Would anyone know of an online Chinese Bible? I just don't want to waste
time reinventing the wheel typing all those characters if there is already one
existing.
   Also, I'd appreciate any lead as to how I could get NIV (English, of
course) text on disks.

With gratitude,
James.
-- 
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*  "Somehow I keep getting this strange feeling                               *
*                     that I was Shirley McClaine in one of my past lives."   *
*                                              said one lizard to another.    *
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: aslt@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Jerome questioned Rev canonicity?
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:20:54 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska

Did Jerome question the inclusion of Revelation into the NT canon?  If so,
where does he say so, and why?

thanks.  E-mail replies welcome.

Lee
From: mayne@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The printing press owners
Date: 12 Oct 92 06:25:38 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <Oct.10.21.21.29.1992.18074@geneva.rutgers.edu> ryanr@beethoven.CS.ColoState.EDU (richard ryan) writes:
>Hi,
>
>It's been a while since I've read this newsgroup and I was wondering
>if anyone knows what happened to the owners of the printing press who
>refused to print pro-choice material.  The last I read in this
>newsgroup, they were sued and lost...
>
>...It seems really unfair that someone
>associated with a large institution would have rights denied to small
>business entrepreneurs.  Before anyone says that the similarities are
>superficial, I'd really kind of want them to think about why the
>differences might be superficial instead.

Although I am moderately libertarian (small "l") and therefore agree
that in this case the owners of the print shop were entitled to refuse
to serve a group they disagreed with I point out that in general large
institutions offering goods or services for sale to the public aren't
generally allowed to discriminate, either. Of course you don't hear
many so-called "pro-choice" people defending the right of Afrikanner's
to choose to practice apartheid or other politically incorrect
choices.

The existence of Usenet largely at public expense (at least for the
Internet traffic) and its uses and policies is a whole other subject.

Bill Mayne

[We had a discussion of this the first time.  I accepted the posting
primarily to see if anyone knew of a result, not to rehash the
discussion.  --clh]
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:20:27 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

In <Oct.7.01.49.13.1992.10911@geneva.rutgers.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>                       HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer

Robert,

I failed to mention that Bush, Reagan and the fundamentalist Christians
whom you call "self-righteous" are pushing for VOLUNTARY school prayer.
I consider myself a fundamentalist but I do not believe that my beliefs
should be forced upon anyone.  But I do believe that students should be
able to practice their religion in schools without fear of expulsion or
suspension.

--
_____________________________
__-----____--___--__-----____	D. Keith Rice
__--__--___--__--___--__--___	University of North Texas
__--___--__--_--____--___--__	Department of Computer Science
__--___--__----_____--__--___	Denton, Texas, USA
__--___--__--_--____--_--____
__--__--___--__--___--__--___	drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu
__-----____--___--__--___--__
_____________________________

Message on t-shirt: "As long as there are tests, there will be prayer
in schools."
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Friends
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:54:01 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article <Oct.4.22.09.13.1992.5985@geneva.rutgers.edu> graikund@jupiter.newcastle.edu.au (Gitesh Raikundalia) writes:
>Gitesh K. Raikundalia - Anti-racist,
>                        Anti-sexist,
>                        Anti-homophobic,
>                        Anti-materialistic, (yes - I am!)
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                     God made the material world. Enjoy.
                     Don't go Gnostic.

>                        Pro-pacifistic,
>                        Ex-Hindu,
>                        Anti-satanic,   Christian.
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (10-11)
Date: 12 Oct 92 06:25:47 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Sunday, October 11:

     I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, and he had everlasting 
good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth.  
<Revelation 14: 6>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: jcarroll@ferris.cray.com (Jeff Carroll)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: opinions on the big bang needing a external cause
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:19:59 GMT

>There is an equally simply response.  All natural phenomena must have a cause.
>Thus, the universe (being natural, i.e. constrained by physical laws) must have
>a cause.  On the other hand, God is SUPER-natural and therefore not bound by
>physical law.  Thus, He need not have a cause.  To say the universe is self
>sufficient requires you to cast off the cause-and-effect paradigm that underlies
>all of physics.

Physics had to repudiate causality some years ago. Scan a periodical index
for the names John Bell and Alain Aspect.

Isn't this one of Aquinas' five supposed proofs of God?

Jeff Carroll
carroll@lemon.cray.com
From: Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (Bjorn B. Larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Men's/Women's Roles in Marriage
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:43:14 GMT
Reply-To: bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
Organization: delab

crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

> [ discussion, what if the husband wants his wife to do something
>   against God's will? ]

> Abram told his wife, Sarai, to lie about him being her brother, and she
> did so.  The Bible narrates this as fact; it _doesn't_ say that this is
> doctrine we should live by.  Nor does it imply that what Sarai did was
> admirable.  If my husband asked me to lie, I'd have a real problem with
> that.  

You are right. Even so, the Bible tells us that a woman shall submit to her
husband. 1 Pet 3; 6 specifically mentions Sarah as an example. Sure Abram
wanted her to sin (marry a king, even though she was married to Abram)
because he acted as a typical man under the circumstances. He was a covard,
willing to give up Sarah to save His own life. Sarah, however, trusted God
and He saved her. The king had a dream where God told him that Sarah was
already married. 

I am not quite sure how God would treat Sarah and Abram if the marriage has
really been effectuated, but I am pretty sure that Abram wouyld be held
responsible for the sin Sarah did, because he commanded her to appear
unmarried. On the other hand, Sarah had a responsibility on her own and
would therefore also be responsible.

The story of Sarah tells us that submittance to God is the first and most
important issue, next comes submittance to her husband, Abram. She did as
Abram told her, but trusted that God would save her. And He did.


In Him,

Bj{\o}rn
--
______________________________________________________________________
               s-mail:                 e-mail:
|   |   |      Bjorn B. Larsen         bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
|__ |__ |      SINTEF DELAB
|  \|  \|      N-7034 TRONDHEIM        tel: +47-7-592682 / 592600
|__/|__/|_     NORWAY                  fax: +47-7-591039 / 594302
______________________________________________________________________
From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Something to keep in mind....
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:26:09 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA

In article <Oct.7.01.16.05.1992.10692@geneva.rutgers.edu> fed!m1slw01@uunet.uu.net (Shay Woodside) writes:

   GOD IS NOT MAN...
   GOD IS NOT A CHRISTIAN...
   WE CHRISTIANS DO NOT OWN HIM...

As to the first in this list;

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally
begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from
true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father....By the
power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary and
was made man.

--
Michael I. Bushnell            Gaude, virgo, salutata Gabriele nuntio.
+1 617 625 4518 (H)      |     Gaude, mater jucundata Jesu puerperio.
+1 617 253 8568 (W)     -+-    Gaude, conresuscitata resurgente filio.
mib@gnu.ai.mit.edu       |     Gaude, tua sublimata prole plena gaudio.
25 Belknap St Apt 1      |     Gaude, sumpta et locata cum Jesu in solio.
Somerville MA 02144            Esto nobis advocata in magno judicio, O Maria.
From: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:49:13 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire


                       HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer

               Bush, Reagan, and a LOT of SELF-RIGHTEOUS fundamentalist 
          "Christians" want to RE-IMPOSE prayer into the public 
          schools, as well as in certain government ceremonies, etc.. 

               But what did Jesus Christ HIMSELF say about people who 
          pray in public?  In Matthew 6:5 he called them HYPOCRITES!  
          
               He said in the next verse that people should pray 
          SILENTLY IN THEIR CLOSETS, in other words, IN PRIVATE.  (Or 
          if in public, they should do it IN THEIR HEADS, withOUT the 
          SHOWY bowed head and folded hands.) 

               Parents who want their kids to openly and verbally pray 
          in school can send them to PAROCHIAL schools, as well as to 
          Sunday school, withOUT forcing it on others. 



               UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this 
          IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. 


                                   Robert E. McElwaine
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: MEN > WOMEN  "...because the Bible tells me so..."
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:09:59 GMT

> Christian women, what do you think?  I'd really like to know... and to 
> hear it from *you*. 

Well, the short answer would be "I think it's not worth discussing on Usenet, 
because I'd be shouted down."

A slightly longer answer is "I think that the Pauline passages concerning 
women provide a lot of insight into how women were looked upon in Paul's 
society, and how those passages have been translated and used provides a lot 
of insight into how women have been looked upon over the centuries, up to the 
present day."

I also think that most of the participants in this discussion are severely in 
need of a clue.


Peace,

Amanda Walker
From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Questions that trouble me
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:07:31 GMT
Reply-To: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

>>3)	Finally, it is my understanding that
>>when Christians consume the host and drink the
>>sacremental wine, at the moment they enter the mouth, they are
>>supposedly transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus
>>respectively. Considering the human aspect of his body,
>>why shouldn't this be considered as cannibalism?


According to Catholics the bread and wine turn into body and blood---this is 
called transubstantiation. This is strictly a Catholic beleif and not
Protestant.

If you get any answers to this question---please post them.



Chris
From: dodson@convex.com (Dave Dodson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: opinions on the big bang needing a external cause
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:19:20 GMT
Reply-To: dodson@convex.com (Dave Dodson)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

In article <Oct.6.00.36.32.1992.8558@geneva.rutgers.edu> ichoi@husc10.harvard.edu (Isaac Choi) writes:
>First of all, the universe must have had a beginning whether or not God
>created it. Because of generally ever increasing entropy, or disorder, in
>the universe, from the molecular level up, the universe will (without any
>outside influence) eventually wind down to a state where the all available
>useful energy has been exhausted (not destroyed but transformed into 
>virtually useless low level heat.) So since there's plenty of useful energy
>left in the universe, the universe must have had a beginning, for if it had
>been existing for an eternity, we'd be out of energy (useful energy) by now.

>So, the universe must have began at a previous point in time, before which 
>it did not exist. Since matter cannot be created or destroyed by any
>naturalistic processes*, the only way matter can be created is through some
>force or being who is not subject to the laws of this universe, or who can
>transcend the limitations of physical processes.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that since entropy is
monotone increasing, and approaches a finite limit, that it had to have
achieved some minimum value at some point in time.  There is no such
theorem in mathematics!  In fact, here is a counterexample: Suppose
f(t) = 1 + arctan(t).  Then f is monotone increasing, the least upper
bound of f is 2, but there is no value of t for which f(t) achieves its
greatest lower bound, which is 0.

While I agree with youy that "In the beginning, God created the heavens
and the earth," I do not support butchering mathematics to try to prove it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.COM
Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234
From: DSIMON@thor.nafb.trw.com (D_SIMON)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God and sexism
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:07:41 GMT
From: dsimon@atlas.nafb.trw.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God and sexism
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:44:27 PST
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to soc.religion.christian

> Also keep in mind that the following events.  1)  The first person to whom
> Jesus revealed himself as Messiah was a woman (John 4--woman at the well).
> 2)  The first people to whom Jesus revealed himself after rising were
> women.  3)  The first evangelists were those same women (they were told to
> go and tell the apostles that Jesus had risen).  4)  Jesus' supposed father
> Joseph only appears for Jesus' birth scenes but Mary shows up throughout
> Jesus' ministry.  And so on.  Women played a very important role in Jesus'
> life and ministry, just as important as the men. . .

I also find it interested that women appear to be Jesus' main source
of financial support during His ministry.

". . . Mary who was called Magdalene . . . and Joanna the wife of Chuza, 
Herod's steward, and Suzanna, and many others were contributing to their 
[Jesus and His disciples] support out of their private means."
Luke 8:2-3
------------
Dan Simon
From: REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Spiritual Headship
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:21:41 GMT
Organization: FNAL

>In article <Oct.3.02.40.29.1992.3734@geneva.rutgers.edu>, munns@cae.wisc.edu
(Scott Munns) writes:
> enjoy reading submissions by others!).  I am looking for information
> (especially scriptural) either for or against the idea of spiritual
> headship exercised by the male in a husband-wife relationship.

actually this is a broader subject than just the husband/wife thing.  I have 2
older but most excellent books in my library that I highly recommend.  One is
by Watchman Nee, and the other by Oswald Sanders. "SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY" is by
Nee and "SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP"is by Sanders.
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Created in his image?
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:37:31 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <Oct.9.04.37.13.1992.14917@geneva.rutgers.edu> tonyp@convex.com (honey bunny) writes:
Before we start, a brief aside:

I don't know the source of your "lions" example in the fourth fact -- it
isn't in the Bible.  Clearly there were miracles involved in the
gathering of the animals -- it would take a *long* time to accumulate
pairs (and more, in some cases) of all land species.  But the Bible
isn't explicit about the logistical solutions given to Noah.

(Facts: God created Man in his image, God is omnipresent, God is sovereign,
God can communicate)
>MAN WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.
(arguments that God isn't  physically similar to man deleted)

Your point rest on the assumption that God only has what He needs,
rather than what He desires (why does He have arms? Because He desires
them).  That's false, but beside the point of what "image" means
here.  

Man being "created in the image of God" need not refer to
physical appearance.  God is a spirit, able to manifest Himself in
physical form as He chooses (scripture has described Him as a burning
cloud, a brilliant figure on a throne, a "still, small voice",
(arguably) three human-appearing figures, a dove, etc). To a being
such as He, image may mean other than physical appearance -- because
God's physical appearance is whatever He wills it to be.

I've heard a number of interpretations on what "image of God" refers
to here:
  + The ability to make moral choices
  + The ability to imagine that which does not exist and to bring it
     to be (although, in our case, by modifying something else, not
     by creation of essence)
  + The ability to love, selflessly (Agape)

In any case, the "image" was marred by the Fall of man, when Adam
chose to sin.  What form this marring took is unknown to us, other
than we still choose to sin against God and we physically die. 

					Tim
-- 
Tim Shimeall ((408) 646-2509)
The proper response to detecting a bug isn't to fix the bug - it's to make 
sure you'll never have to worry about that bug again.  --- Richard Hamming
From: Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (Bjorn B. Larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: christian business association
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:20:56 GMT
Reply-To: bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
Organization: delab

In article <Oct.3.02.33.50.1992.3666@geneva.rutgers.edu>
w3romani@student.business.uwo.ca (Walter Romaniuk) writes:

> I'm an MBA student in Canada, and a couple of friends and I have been 
> thinking about trying to set up a Christian business club

> [ ... ]

> I would appreciate any comments or suggestions on how people at other 
> schools have gone about establishing such organizations.

This may be a little off your line, but anyway:

There is an organization called "Full Gospel Businessman World
Association." I have never been to any of their meetings, and know
little about them besides the fact that they exist.

I would guess that they have a chapter in your city. Maybe they could
give some advice? Perhaps even provide somebody to lead a debate?

In Him,

Bj{\o}rn

--
______________________________________________________________________
               s-mail:                 e-mail:
|   |   |      Bjorn B. Larsen         bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
|__ |__ |      SINTEF DELAB
|  \|  \|      N-7034 TRONDHEIM        tel: +47-7-592682 / 592600
|__/|__/|_     NORWAY                  fax: +47-7-591039 / 594302
______________________________________________________________________
From: gouge@osceola.cs.ucf.edu (Christopher D. Gouge)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Help Needed
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:22:11 GMT
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando

[mary.rita.otto asked for examples of (famous?) Christian "empirical
thinkers (scientists and mathematicians).  --clh]

Galileo.  Newton.  Faraday.  I think Maxwell, also.

Can anyone add to the list?

As Dr. Francis Schaeffer has said, the Christian mindset (that is, that
the universe is rationally comprehensible because it was created by a
rational God) has made modern science possible.  I myself am a student
of mechanical engineering, and am a Christian; I find nothing whatever
in M.E. study that refutes Christian belief, nor do I find anything in
Christian belief (I should say the Bible and the leadings of the Holy
Spirit...not necessarily "Christian belief" meaning "beliefs that some
Christians may have held") to contradict science and engineering as I
have seen it.  The war between Science and Religion, or between Logic
and Faith, is illusory and fallacious when applied to Christianity.
The wars weren't between Christians and scientists -- they were between
Christians and Materialists!

Scott Whitmore
Proverbs 27:14

"Okay, so you 'Love Your Mother'...what about your Father?"

 u 

}{]
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: MEN > WOMEN "...because the Bible tells me so..."
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:13:39 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <Oct.13.01.09.40.1992.21867@geneva.rutgers.edu> amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
>
>Christian women, what do you think?  I'd really like to know... and to
>hear it from *you*.
>

Can I add to this plea and say that I'd be particularly intrigued to
hear the views of Christian women who *do* accept the doctrine of male
headship.  (If you've read my postings on the subject, you'll know
that I don't, but I'm not saying this to look for an arguement, I'm
genuinely interested in your point of view.)

Alison