Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Obedience v. Breed (was mutts & purebreds)
From: shoran@mtroyal.ab.ca
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:41:07 MST
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Dec10.161303.26523@unislc.uucp>, abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck) writes:
> Gail Brookhart writes:
> 
>> ever happen.  The dog club that I was in was full of people who thought
>> that an obedience title would ruin their dog for the breed ring.  There is
>> also the problem that too many breeders regard obedience and performance
>> events as a throw away sport for their culls.
>> 
>> I have had breeders try to sell me dogs with skeletal defects as obedience
>> dogs!  In my own (I would never insult the reader by claiming that this is
>> a humble opinion) mind, I think that the pick puppies should be the
>> obedience prospects.  These are the puppies who need to grow up into dogs
>> of correct structure, type and temperament so that they can work and (no
>> slight of breed shows to follow) not just walk around a ring and look
>> pretty.  I just think that  a champion should have to prove that he has a
>> brain and not that he has the best groomer.

But that's not what the conformation ring is for.  It is for finding the dogs
that come closest to the written breed standard.   (Well, that's what it is
supposedly for....)
 
> 
> I agree, Gail!  Our club magazine, Newf Tide, has been running a really
> interesting series on top obedience competitors.  I believe it was
> Jack Volhard who remarked about a dog that "he wasn't good
> enough for obedience, so we showed him in breed."
> 
> Obedience is an ATHLETIC competition.  The dog must be sound, mentally
> and physically.  With a Newfoundland, it's particularly important
> that the dog not be so big and cumbersome that it can't jump and
> move.  Newfoundlands can be VERY FAST, but they have to have
> correct structure to be that way.  At one of our Nationals, the
> BIS judge cautioned us to "not mistake bulk or fat for muscle and
> structure, especially in the males."  Yes yes yes.  A dog
> who is incorrectly structured is not GOOD ENOUGH for the obedience
> ring. 
> 
> If more people actually understood the long, hard training that
> goes into obedience competition, they might stop poopooing 
> it and they would definitely stop trying to send inferior
> dogs into obedience competitors' homes.  Just TRY teaching
> a badly-structured, mentally unstable dog to jump and 
> retrieve.  Ha!
> 

There's some long, hard training that goes into producing a good conformation
dog too, especially the top winners.

> On the other hand, there's no reason to say that obedience
> dogs can't be beautiful!  I wouldn't want to show an ugly
> dog on either side of the park!
> -- 
>    Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
>    abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
>    Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
> 			        | prominent positions in the community.


I have been told over and over that champions should have to prove themselves
in other areas, such as Collies gaining herding titles, Newfies their Water
Rescue awards, Rotties guarding, Retrievers retrieving, etc.  Particularly
from Europe, where I understand that many breeds have to perform before their
championships are granted.

I just can't buy into this.  Using this kind of logic, no obedience titles
should be awarded to a Beardie unless he has his herding degree, no agility
title to a terrier unless he has done his going-to-ground test successfully, no
Golden can pass a temperament test unless he has his hunting certificate!

Some of us want to do one thing with our dogs, be it conformation, obedience,
agility, or whatever.  Some of us have neither the time not the inclination to
do two or more events.  I find it perfectly understandable that a person with a
Retriever doesn't want to go out and shoot things for said Retriever to
retrieve.  City people may find it hard to take their herding breed dog to
herding tests and clinics.  I do believe that all performance events (and 
that includes conformation) should stand alone, without awards at one 
depending on qualiications from another.   Getting wins in two or more could 
be recognised in some way - some of the breed clubs have special awards 
for versatility, but please, let's not make it mandatory.

So that you know from whence I come - I do mostly conformation with my dogs.  I
also do as much obedience as I can manage (the occasional CD), have competed in
herding, taken dogs through temperament tests, and dabbled in agility.  I'd
like to do more, especially of the obedience, and am planning on finishing a
CDX in 1993 on one bitch, but work and kids get in the way!

Stef
From: bassett@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Diane Bassett)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:52:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Dog Afraid of Storm Drains
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino