From: pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao)
Subject: Re: Telugu and Tamil
Keywords: Telugu and Tamil
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:37:57 GMT


In article <BuCJrC.JxG@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering) writes:

|> In article <1992Sep8.172955.14867@b30.ingr.com>, shiva@b30.ingr.com (Shiva Shivakumar) writes:

|> > Do you know that the Telugu word for Tamizh is "aravam" meaning "unmusical".
|>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > Contrast this with Baaradhiyaar's "Sundara telungu".
|>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|>           In Tamil too "aravam" means "unqualified sound". "aaL aravam
|>           ketkuthu" means "there is some sound of someone moving/speaking".
|>           "aravam" means "gentle but unspecified sound"; Since Tamil
|>           does not use "harsh" sounds such as "kha", "jha" and such aspirated
                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|>           phonemes, it could have sounded bland to Telugus. It might have
|>           sounded "too gentle" or "too bland". 
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~


Having lived in Madras for 4 years and having had friends who considered Tamil
a very odd-sounding language, let me analyze impassionately why _some_ Telugus
(and others, who are not Tamils) think Tamil sounds odd.

It is not the lack of aspirated sounds that makes Tamil sound bland to some
Telugus, but it is the heavy usage of alveolar sounds and repeated consonants
that makes it sound odd and funny to some Telugus.

From my exposure to Tamil (I never spoke Tamil, but I heard a lot of it. I
watched a lot of Tamil films and watched a lot of Madras TV), I can say that
Tamil uses "alveolar" /t/, /d/ and /n/ very frequently (atleast compared to
Telugu). In Telugu, these sounds are very rarely used (see Kishore's %
estimates).

Also, other alveolar sounds like dark /l/, dark /r/ ("R" - it is rarely used in
Telugu. Moreover, now-a-days, it's being replaced with the ordinary 'r') and
"zh" (which is very close to dark /l/ though it's written this way) are very
common in Tamil.

To add to these, repeated consonants like "TT" (alveolar), "kk", "pp" are very
common in Tamil (as in "ungaLiTTa", "engiTTa", "iNNikku", "saappaTTu"). Moreover
Occurrances like /C1 C1 V C2 C2/ (where C1, C2 are two consonants and V is an
vowel) are not very uncommon in Tamil (in a way, Tamils make up for the lack of
frequent usage of aspirated consonants by using repeated consonants).

When the English word "hotel" is taken into Telugu, it becomes "hOTalu". But,
in Tamil, it becomes "vOTTalu". Also, "coffee" becomes "kAppi". Tamils love to
use repeated consonants.

But, all these phonetic patterns are very unusual in Telugu and to some Telugus
they may sound very funny and rather odd.

Every language is different and, if one encounters a language which heavily
uses some phonetic patterns which she/he [PMC! Politically More Correct :-)]
is not at all used to, it is no wonder if he/she finds the language odd.

There is no need to be offended by it. One _learns_ a language as he grows up
and accumulates a sense of phonetical euphony. If someone finds the patterns
common to your language odd, why should you get offended by it, after all! It
doesn't mean anything if some Telugus think Tamil is a cacophonious language.
It doesn't mean Tamils and Telugus are enemies; Telugus don't have respect for
Tamils; Telugus are petty-minded etc.


|>           In any case, if as you say the Telugus think- Tamil as 
|>           "unmusical" ( due to bland and simple sounds) it certainly
|>           shows how Telugus received Tamil. It is sad that the wisdom, 
|>           beauty and the music of Tamil are not perceptible to Telugus but
|>           I feel if the Telugus pay more attention they might see the
|>           simplicity and the music of Tamil. If you know that music
|>           comes from simple sounds/notes you will begin to see the
|>           euphonious nature of Tamil.


Why don't you understand that you are programmed to see euphony in those sound
patterns and the way another person is programmed makes him think those patterns
sound silly? There is no dispute or debate here. One's sense of phonetic
beauty will be developed based on the patterns he learns, after all.

If someone comes and says, "Telugu is a cacophonious language. It sounds
horrible", I will not care. I will not get into lengthy debates and try to
explain how euphonious Telugu is. I'll just ignore her/him. I just don't
understand why some Tamils are so sensitive to this and start majorly defending
the euphonious nature of Tamil. And, someone (was it Kathivaran?) said Telugus
suffered from an inferiority complex in this matter, huh!  ;-)


|>           Regarding Bharathiyaar's "Sundara Telungu" , it is certainly a
|>           "sORRu_patham" of Tamil's receptivity. [ soRRu_patham =
|>            a test of a single grain of rice to assess the right stage/level
|>            of cooking of a whole pot of rice. sORu=cooked rice,
|>           patham= right level/stage of cooking]. Bharathiyaar certainly
|>           stands testimony to the long line of poets of great receptivity.
|>           For a Tamil the
|>           words "Telugu" and "Telungu" will sound differently, the later
|>           being considered more euphonious. Tamils consider Telungu
|>           sweet. Please also know that the same Bharathiyaar had also sung
|>           "yaam aRintha mozhigaLilE Thamizh mozhi pol inithaavathu..kaaNOm"
|>           = Of all the languages I know I haven't found any as 
|>            euphonious (inithu) as Tamil anywhere !! 
|>            Even if you were to say that Tamil is "unmusical", I have
|>            no trouble in concurring with you that Telungu is sweet, 
|>            may be we have different ears (-: 


Seriously, are you trying to say that Bharathiyaar just meant that the word
"Telungu" sounded more sweet than the word "Telugu" did by "Sundara Telungu"?
Don't you think he meant Telu[n]gu was a sweet language? Or, don't you think
Telugu is a sweet language? May be you are not blessed with the same ears
which Bharathiyaar was endowed with ....  ;-)


|>               (anbudan) Regards,
|>                Selva Selvakumar


Chill out
PVR