From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: One of them is blatantly lying: "Visser-ian" or "Appressian".
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:47:43 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <visser.721977016@convex.convex.com> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:

+>Is that how the mind of a revisionist works? Still, that blind spot
+>is typical of Armenian terrorists and revisionists and those who
+>try to cover up and apologize for their crimes. Well, what's all
+>this about, anyway? "Armenians" for sale?

>	Answer the question.  How many of the scholars on your "list"
>are receiving money from the turkish government or from turkish organizations.

Omy. "Visser-ian" is counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists and revisionists
to prove something for him. No wonder this clown is in such a mess. What a
loser...

ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet)

Following is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar:

>From: dbd@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
>Message-ID: <1154@urartu.SDPA.org>

>In article <1991Jan4.145955.4478@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ahmet@eecg.toronto.
>edu (Ahmet Parlakbilek) asked a simple question:

>[AP] I am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu,coras or any other
>[AP] Turk was proven to lie.I can show tens of lies and fabrications of
>[AP] Davidian, like changing quote , even changing name of a book, Anna.

>The obvious ridiculous "Armenians murdered 3 million Moslems" is the most
>outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all. You are obviously new on this 
>net, so read the following sample -- not one, but three proven lies in one
>day!

>			- - - start yalanci.txt - - -

[some parts are deleted]

>In article <1990Aug5.142159.5773@cbnewsd.att.com> the usenet scribe for the 
>Turkish Historical Society, hbm@cbnewsd.att.com (hasan.b.mutlu), continues to
>revise the history of the Armenian people. Let's witness the operational
>definition of a revisionist yalanci (or liar, in Turkish):

>[Yalanci] According to Leo:[1]
>[Yalanci]
>[Yalanci] "The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks
>[Yalanci] and on the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding
>[Yalanci] their own affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed,
>[Yalanci] the war was actually being waged between the Committee of 
>[Yalanci] Dashnaktsutiun and the Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and 
>[Yalanci] savage war in defense of party political interests. The Dashnaks 
>[Yalanci] incited revolts which relied on Russian bayonets for their success."
>[Yalanci] 
>[Yalanci] [1] L. Kuper, "Genocide: Its Political Use in the Twentieth Century,"
>[Yalanci]     New York 1981, p. 157.

>This text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries. On
>page 157 we find a discussion of related atrocities (which is title of the
>chapter). The topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the Sub-
>Commission on Prevention of Discrimination of Minorities of the Commission on
>Human Rights of the United Nations with respect to the massacres in Cambodia.
>There is no mention of Turks nor Armenians as claimed above.

				- - -

>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!

>The depth of foolishness the Turkish Historical Society engages in, while
>covering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, is only surpassed by the 
>ridiculous "historical" material publicly displayed!

>David Davidian <dbd@urartu.SDPA.org>  | The life of a people is a sea, and  

Receiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,"Genocide..." and
what I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book
was like "voice of Armenian revolutionists" and although I read the whole book,
I could not find the original quota.
But there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found 
the original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:

> According to Leo:[1]

>"The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks and on
> the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding their own 
> affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, the war was
> actually being waged between the Committee of Dashnaktsutiun and the
> Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and savage war in defense of party
> political interests. The Dashnaks incited revolts which relied on Russian
> bayonets for their success." 

>[1] B. A. Leo. "The Ideology of the Armenian Revolution in Turkey," vol II,
     ======================================================================
>    p. 157.
    ======

QUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !

DAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU
JUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.

Davidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...

You are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow
you can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided
not to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise
all the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least
we may save time by not dealing with your lies.

And for the following line:
>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!

I also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you.
I hope you will be drowned in your lies.

Ahmet PARLAKBILEK

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11578 talk.politics.mideast:22154 talk.politics.soviet:8910 soc.culture.greek:10570 soc.culture.europe:9538 soc.culture.soviet:9940 soc.rights.human:4216