HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orville%weyrich@tnet.com (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Some more misconceptions regarding OS/2 and NT
Reply-To: tnet.com!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:28:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.192500.26327@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.212437.25057@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>>  Microsoft claims that the full NT product
>>(including POSIX, DOS, Win-16, Win-32, and OS/2 1.x compatibility)


Does POSIX compatibility include a Unix style "fork"? That would be one
feature that would give me serious cause to re-think my choice of OS/2
in favor of NT. (IBM -- are you listening to requests for "fork"?)

There is just too much Unix software that is hard to port to OS/2 because
it lacks "fork" capability.

Or is there a fundmental reason why "fork" can't be added to OS/2 without
causing some major malfunction? If this is so, and NT isn't subject to the
same problem, then exactly why?

orville

--------------------------------------       **********************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                          Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                       POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                      Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer                Internet: orville%weyrich@tnet.com
--------------------------------------       **********************************
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: STOP YOUR BICKERING
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:30:05 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Jul22.162111.1@qucdntri.ee.queensu.ca> morton@qucdntri.ee.queensu.ca writes:
>Most serious computer users want a muti-processing OS. Who gives a damn 
>whether it's made by IBM or Microsoft? Who cares whether one is 
>released six or eight months before the other. My loyalty lies to the 
>company that makes an OS that works well and with some sort of logic
>behind it's hierarchy. If you're all really serious about using your 
>machines...STOP YOUR BICKERING...and try to get something constructive 
>going. 

In case you hadn't noticed, this is an *advocacy* group.

Charter's for advocacy groups make bitching about this and that the foundation
for discussion.

Redirect your output to comp.os.ms-windows.irritating.asshole or /dev/null
(which ever is the most convinient).

Neil


****************************| Sig' Time |*********************************
JANET: 	  neilp@uk.ac.hw.cs   *   Neil Postlethwaite, Rm G.25, 
INTERNET: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk   *   Dept of Computer Science,  
UUCP: 	  ..!uknet!hwcs!neilp *   Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton Campus
                              *   Edinburgh, EH14 4AS, United Kingdom.
------------------------------*-------------------------------------------
Computer Science Account      *   Phone +44 (0)31 449-5111 x4174
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: gordonl@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: The NT file system
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:39:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1682C71A7.CIVENBAH@mizzou1.missouri.edu> CIVENBAH@mizzou1.missouri.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.205549.16885@njitgw.njit.edu>
>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
> 
>>What will the NT file system offer that HPFS doesn't?  I believe I
>>heard something about multi-user protection, but does that make sense
>>for a non-networked computer?  And OS/2 supports file protection for
> 
>Sure, it does.  For example, how about a stand-alone computer used by
>many students at a school.  Each has his homework password protected from
>all other students.....

This capability was designed into HPFS and implimented in the 32-bit
version that I did.  The Microsoft LAN manager product makes use of it, in 
fact.

IBM has choosen not to offer this security feature in their OS/2 release.
You'll have to ask them why.
	
	gordon letwin
	not a spokesman for microsoft
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 1 Thing Windows can do but OS/2 can't.
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:15:36 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Jul26.011637.11655@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>>>Sell 13 million copies.
>>
>>			.. and still be CRAP.
>
>Could you elaborate on this please ;)
>What are you using it for that it does not meet your needs.
>
>I, even being a MS employee, think Win31 is crap as an automotive
>fuel ;)
>
>Oh, you were just making a funny comment, well, nevermind then.
>

Funny comment yes tough if you want a bit more substance....

Windows is just so fiddly, geeky to use and just a real pain.

Give me a Mac with System 7 *ANY* day.

Windows only won on the PC because it had virtually no competition.
Gem, Deskview or Windows. Not much of a choice is there. Also if you
have a 286 machine, best bin it. If you have a Mac Plus, system 7
will run on it. Mac price premium. Not !

Neil

P.S. Apple also has the ace up the sleeve. Hypercard. Making applications
     with Hypercard and Quicktime is an absolute doddle. Quick and
     easy professional presentations. A Windows PC is NOWHERE.

****************************| Sig' Time |*********************************
JANET: 	  neilp@uk.ac.hw.cs   *   Neil Postlethwaite, Rm G.25, 
INTERNET: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk   *   Dept of Computer Science,  
UUCP: 	  ..!uknet!hwcs!neilp *   Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton Campus
                              *   Edinburgh, EH14 4AS, United Kingdom.
------------------------------*-------------------------------------------
Computer Science Account      *   Phone +44 (0)31 449-5111 x4174
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: craigdo@microsoft.com (Craig Dowell)
Subject: How many times do you have to say it sucks
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:28:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Summary: (this post sucks)

In article <1992Jul26.011637.11655@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.203324.29189@cs.hw.ac.uk> neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite) writes:
>>In article <5143@krafla.rhi.hi.is> karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) writes:
>>>Sell 13 million copies.
>>
>>			.. and still be CRAP.
>
>Could you elaborate on this please ;)

Hee hee hee hee!  I like it a lot -- childish and humorless as usual :-)

>What are you using it for that it does not meet your needs.
>
>I, even being a MS employee, think Win31 is crap as an automotive
>fuel ;)

I, even being a MS employee, think Win31 is crap as a windowing system.
Of course, I think X is crap, Apple S7 is crap, WPS is crap, ...

>Oh, you were just making a funny comment, well, nevermind then.
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions.
>
>PS: The comment wasn't that funny, was it necessary ;)
>
>

Yeah, I think this kind of stuff is necessary to keep up the volume of
the newsgroup.  After all, how would we know that Win31 was crap unless
every swingin' dick on the planet posted that same eloquent, incisive,
analysis. ;-)

To follow up on this thread:

The country is crap, the planet is crap, Microsoft makes crap, IBM makes
crap, GM makes crap, Mercedes makes crap, Audi makes crap. The Japanese
suck, the Americans suck, the Germans suck, the Canadians are hosed.
Bush is an idiot, Clinton is an idiot, Quayle is a geniuse.  Unix sucks,
DOS sucks, OS/2 sucks, Mach sucks, OS/9 sucks, Pick sucks, VMS sucks,
VM/SP sucks, OSF/1 sucks, VRTX sucks, CP/M sucks, MVS sucks, Multics
suck, OS/360 sucks.

[deep breath]

The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket while our leaders are
re-arranging deck chairs and trying to make silk purses out of sows
ears.  OH MY GOD, I CAN"T TAKE IT ANY MORE!!  AAARRRGGGHHH!

[boom, splash, ting, ting -- sound of .44 mag desert eagle followed by
brains hitting MS office wall and spent round bouncing off monitor with
program manager and stupid program group icons on it.]

Sorry, my manager just walked in ...

The forests are dying, the air is unbreathable, gas costs too much, cars
are too expensive.  Women are morons, men are morons, PC isn't.

[Oh, I can understand all of the derogatory posts now, this is fun.  You 
don't have to think, you just connect id (freudian) to id (logon) and
have at.]

-- Craig

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
From: ruckman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Christopher Ruckman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC and Mac OEs (was Re: 1 Thing Windows can do but OS/2 can't.)
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:51:42 GMT
Reply-To: ruckman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Christopher Ruckman)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy, stuartw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Stuart Woolford) writes:
>>I agree about the fact the single button on a Mac mouse IS a pain. Though
>>stop for a minute. How many of your Windows applications use the right
>>mouse (count them NOW !!).

Come to think of it, *most* of the app's I have use the right mouse
button.  WinWord, Designer, Stanford Graphics, NDW, 1-2-3/W ...
Off the top of my head, I can think of very few that don't use it.
-- 
Chris Ruckman, Ship Acoustics Department (Code 1941)
Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center 
ruckman@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1559 comp.os.os2.advocacy:3230
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: The NT file system
From: jstewart@desire.wright.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:30:04 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <ycgm-qm.olson30@netcom.com>, olson30@netcom.com (John Sully) writes:
> eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg (TAN JIN MENG) writes:
> 
>>: Sure, it does.  For example, how about a stand-alone computer used by
>>: many students at a school.  Each has his homework password protected from
>>: all other students.....
>>:  
> 
>>That is **NO** protection at all! For secure systems, you need a
>>physically secure server storing all the sensitive data. Access is then
>>from client workstations. For file protection, you really need a
>>physically secure file server.
> 
> You have to be kidding!  Right.  And all along I though that VMS, MVS,
> heck, even UNIX for all it's warts, provided multiuser security at least
> at some level without having to be networked in a client/server relationship.
> Oh well, I guess the world *can* be wrong :-).
> 
> Seriously, an argument can be made that a network connection is actually 
> *less* secure than locally stored files, given that a network can be
> snooped for data, passwords, magic cookies, what have you.  The only 
> really secure system is a physically secure system, surrounded by armed
> guards, which has *no* network connections.  Not a practical alternative.
> 
> John
> 
	I think the point he was trying to make was that if the computer is
sitting in the same room as you, you can boot into single user mode, or boot
off a floppy or tape and do what you want.

						John Stewart
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Some more misconceptions regarding OS/2 and NT
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:30:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <13652@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
>MISCONCEPTION #666 - POSIX = UNIX
>
>>NT plans to have POSIX (Unix) support as well.
>
>"POSIX support" is not the same as "UNIX support".

Well, what is the use of POSIX support if you can't re-compile Unix
sources to run under it?
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: olson30@netcom.com (John Sully)
Subject: Re: Windows 3.1 hardware requirements.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 04:31:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes) writes:

>It appears to me that the hardware requirements for all three of
>The Great OSs (tm) are growing at about the same rate.  I remember
>when I could run Xenix in 4MB with 100MB of disk on a 386/16.  Yes I
>really did!

Jeez, you youngsters really get to me!!

I remember when I could run UNIX on a 6Mhz AT with 640K and a 20Mb 
hard disk.  I have friends who have run Xenix on a similarly 
configured XT.

Now, ask me if the OS that had those requirements provided the same
functionality as UNIX SVR4, which has similar hardware requirements to
NT or OS/2??

No!!  So quit whining about the OS requirements... As in most other
economic transactions, you get what you pay for.

John
From: rommel@jonas.bofe.sub.org (Kai Uwe Rommel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Some more misconceptions regarding OS/2 and NT
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:49:29 GMT
Organization: Private

mcnally@wsl.dec.com writes in article <mcnally.712178963@wsl.pa.dec.com>:
> 
> rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel) writes:
> >... This allows to put some kind of "server" for a ressource
> >into a DLL with shared data and have several clients connect to it.
> >Now, what should happen if such a client forks? Should it be
> >disconnected from the DLL? Difficult. Otherwise, how could the DLL be
> >told that there is now an additional client? This at least is
> >impossible.
> 
> Well, I'd say that if the DLL needs to be actively told that there's a
> new client, something is wrong with the design.  This is a pretty lame
> excuse for not having "fork()".

I don't think so. This really depends on what you implement into such
a DLL. For example, if you put some IPC mechanism (such as OS/2's
queues) into a DLL then it is *normal* that a client process does a
OpenQueue() before it can access any queue managed by that DLL.

Now, if such a client forks, should the child have access to all queue
handles inherited from the parent? This situation is similar to the
inheritance of file handles with the difference that the very inner
kernel knows about file handles but not about any ressources managed
by a user-lever DLL (which could be written by someone to extend the
OS API, that's one of the main reasons for DLL's). However, for such a
server DLL it is vital to know how many clients are on each side of a
queue, for our example, to let all readers know if there are no more
writers or let all writers know that there are no more readers etc.

Such information would normally be maintained by counting all Open and
Close calls with which clients connect and disconnect to a service
implemented in such a DLL. There is no way to tell such a DLL there is
one more client. A similar problems can occur for writers of such
DLL's if a connected clients terminates abnormally without
disconnecting properly from the DLL. For this reasony, init/exit
procedures for DLL's are introduced which are called automatically
when the loader connects to a automatically linked-in DLL and by some
Exit handler whent the app terminates. However, (and if so, how)
should an init procedure of a DLL be called for a new client if that
is created by fork?

Of course, a fork() could be created by just ignoring such things ...

Kai Uwe Rommel

--
/* Kai Uwe Rommel                                      Muenchen, Germany *
 * rommel@jonas.bofe.sub.org                       Phone +49 89 723 4101 *
 * rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de                  Fax +49 89 723 7889 */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams
From: ajross@husc9.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: DOS SHARE vs. Windows 3.1    ---Help!
Keywords: SHARE Windows 3.1
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:41:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc9.ajross.712266070

SHARE doesn't seem to be getting along with windows.  When it is
installed, (as, I think, It should be) I get spurious "Sharing Violations
on Drive C:" which hang the system at least one out of three times.  I
really mean hang here, even Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't work, forget GPF's.  Some
of these are repeatable--when importing a text file into W4W 1.1a, it
hangs at exactly 32% completed.  I remove SHARE, and all this stops. 
Problem is, Paradox REQUIRES share, so I'm stuck.  What's going on?

The system I have is an Eteq 486-33 w/ 4MB, a Connor CP3204 209MB IDE HD,
a cheap OEM'ed IDE controller, Trident Display card, DOS 5.0, Win3.1

Thanks in Advance,
Andy Ross
ajross@husc.harvard.edu
                                                      that's right, no .sig
From: jon@bai.baylis.COM (Jon Granrose)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Win31 on LanMan network
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:22:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Baylis Automation Inc. (Scotts Valley, CA)


I have an interesting problem here.  We have a Lan Manager network with
about 10 PCs on it.  They all have similar but not identical hardware.
So I set up Windows for one system, it doesn't work on the others, in fact
it won't even run.  So right now I have it set up so that it works on about
half the computers but not on the others.

I figure it will take multiple .ini files to get it working correctly.
But the only problem with that is if they get changed while another system
is running, the two system's settings will get mixed together.  Not good.

So I have two questions.  Is there a way to make Windows use specific
ini files short of renaming them all?  And as part of the same question,
are there any undocumented options to win.com other than what show up
with a "win /?".  Second, is anyone else out there working multiple systems
off of one network copy of windows?  I'd be interested in hearing how you did
it.

Right now I'm thinking I'll have to have multiple copies of the .ini files
at the very least.  But I'd rather not have multiple copies of the fonts,
and the executables, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks.

Jon
--
Jon Granrose (JG102)			jon@baylis.com
Baylis Automation			...!netcomsv.netcom.com!bai!jon
5550 Scotts Valley Dr, Suite 500	voice:	(408) 438-7327
Scotts Valley, CA 95066			fax:	(408) 438-1105
                  "Groovy."  -- Ash, Evil Dead II
From: petalid@csd.uch.gr (Nick Petalides 400)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Driver needed
Summary: Driver for LaserWriter IIg
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:45:42 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS

Hello everybody,
	I need a driver (for win 3.1) for my laserwriter.It is an Apple
LaserWriter IIg.Does anyone know where I can find one,
			
				Nick C. Petalides.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
From: marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten)
Subject: Compaq SLT/286 setup problem
Reply-To: marten@ilt.fhg.de
Organization: FhG-ILT
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:53:36 GMT


Hello,
i have a problem setting up a Compaq SL/286 (Laptop) with Windows 3.1. Setup comes up, but when it tries to determine the system components, it hangs up.
Is there a problem with the LCD display. I also tried to use an external display.
ThanX for any help ! 
--
# Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik 
# BITNET: KQ040MA@DACTH11 , InterNet: marten@ilt.fhg.de                        
# HEPNET: 13533::52714::MARTEN, Phone: +49/241/8906-112, -0
From: medlin@srcvax.cem.msu.edu (Stephen Medlin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Smartdrv vs Built-In Cache
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:21:15 GMT
Reply-To: medlin@srcvax.cem.msu.edu (Stephen Medlin)
Organization: MSU_Chemistry

In article <1992Jul19.072105.11795@ee.ubc.ca>, tau@ee.ubc.ca (AU TRI
BANG) writes: >In article <1992Jul17.191818.26079@ee.ryerson.ca>
mzeytin@gauss.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Mehmet Zeytinoglu) writes: 
>>If the hard drive you are using has a built-in cache (as more and more
>>drives seem to have) how important is it to use the SMARTDRV in your
>>Windows 3.1 setup?
>>In all likelihood the built-in HD-cache will be smaller than the RAM
>>allocated to SMARTDRV (in my case 256 kB vs 2 MB) but how significant
>>will be the difference in terms of performance for disk intensive
>>applications?
>
>I read an article once where they said that the HD-cache does not improve
>performance that much and that a software cache was more useful.

I will second this last remark in that I also read the same thing and 
saw some benchmarks that showed the RAM cache was better.  I wish that
I could recall where I read that.  Seems that most HD caches are not 
that large or necessarily that fast.  I would be willing to say that a 
very high performance (e.g., $$$) disk controller w/ cache (>1MB) 
probably would be faster....???

     		********* Stephen Medlin *********
From: voykhans@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Has anyone got 4 com ports working simultaneously?
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:57:43 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Jul21.231950.5682@kentrox.uucp>, peter@kentrox.uucp (Peter Uchytil) writes:
> Just trying a sanity check here.  We're having some problems with 4 com
> ports (gee, who hasn't?).  Win 3.1 supposedly fixed things, but I'm just a 
> little paranoid.  Has anyone seen 4 coms working simultaneously?  Just a 
> simple "yes" will do.  Thanks a lot.

	Yes. You got it.  Though actually I am using three: com1 for mouse
com2 to for direct connection to other processor (MHC11 board), com4 to
type this reply.   I also had problems, but SETCOM.ZIP from
ftp.cica.indiana.edu helped to cure them.  This tiny program loads couple
numbers in BIOS tables, that allows Windows to recognize com3 and 4.
Unfrotunatedly I do not remember the directory from which I copied this
file, but if you wish, I can provide you my copy of this freeware program
initially designed for Windows 3.0.  Just mail me at
VEydelman@tesla.ece.ukans.edu  (not at address in the header of this post!),
and I'll try to help you
			Vadim. 
> -- 
> Peter Uchytil       | Kentrox Industries | "Don't give u
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:20:02 EDT
From: <JDM138@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Can't run DOS Apps in Enh mode

Whenever I try to run MS-DOS prompt, MS-dos Editor, Procomm for Dos, Etc., I
get a windows that sez: "Incorrect system version - Run setup again" I'm
running MS-DOS 5.0 & I've already reinstalled Windows, but still no dice.
Help!

Thanks,    Dave

JDM138@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
From: olson30@netcom.com (John Sully)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Smartdrv vs Built-In Cache
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:23:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

cdent@europa (Christopher Dent) writes:

>In article <fdgm5lp.olson30@netcom.com> olson30@netcom.com (John Sully) writes:
>and I write:
>> >What should I do to have maximum performance?
>> >Would it be best to take some ram off the hd controller? Or leave it
>> >packed and remove smartdrv? Leave it as it is? Try a different software
>> >cache?

>In this case the hard drive cache uses standard sims so it is possible to swap  
>memory back and forth between the board and the controller.

>So which is better: RAM on the controller or switch it to the motherboard?

I'd leave 2-4M on the controller and move the rest to the motherboard.
If you want to run SVR4 UNIX, move it all to the motherboard.  If you want
to run SVR3 UNIX leave some on the controller, just as you would for 
DOS/Windows since SVR3 has considerably less effective caching of file-
system data than SVR4.

John
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup