HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: WHERE IS DADDY???
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 18:51:11 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <7431@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>, obrien@hri.com (Jim Obrien) writes:
|> A good friend of mine is having a problem with her
|> 2 year old daughter. She is a single mother, and her
|> x-husband only see his daughter for 2 hours a week, and
|> only shows up 50% of the time. He is not a very stable
|> person, and can not be trusted alone with his daughter.
|> 
|> After every visit, the daughter is in a state where she
|> hates everyone. She also crys alot, and is definitly
|> affected by the visit.
|> 
|> My question is, would it be better if he just stays away
|> completely? Seems like he doesn't care one way or the
|> other, because they hardly know each other. Or should
|> the mother assume that the daughter will grow out of this
|> phase, and accept thing as they are..
|> 
|> Please give me your opinions.      Thankx Jimm..

Presumably the existing arrangement was set up by
a judge, so if it is to be changed it would have
to be changed by a judge.  You imply in the
first paragraph that this is a supervised visitation
by order of the court.

You don't make it clear (and probably no one short
of a mind reader could) whether the little girl
is upset because he comes so infrequently, because
she isn't allowed to be alone with him, or because of how
he behaves when they are together.

From what you present, it is impossible to conclude
that "he doesn't care one way or the other".  On
the contrary, he may be just as upset as his
daughter about the infrequency of visitation.
The fact that they hardly know each other may be
as much a function of the court order as anything
else.

In the absence of evidence that the man's behavior
is worse than is already implied by a court order
limiting his visits to 2 supervised hours per week,
I would advise accepting the status quo.  I'd
cry too if I could only see my father 2 hours
a week and I couldn't understand why.
-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com (ALICE BERTELSON X2572 P7331)
Subject: Email!
Reply-To: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:29:11 GMT

Hi Beth

Now I`m posting this letter to the group so you can read it, as first I tried with 
the usual Email on the Sun and it bounced back, then I tried to send it via Netnews 
to sender and it bounced again - but I DO know I can sucessfully reach the group!!

It keeps telling me that bert_al (my LOCAL account) isn`t and .. well as follows

>The following message was not delivered because:

>The originator (bert_al%pts4%pts4@pts.mot.com) is not a registered Worldtalk LAN >address.



Thanks for the tip - somebody else has also said that to me, but I 
wasn`t sure how to fix it, as it always looks fine to me when I send
it out :-)

When was Sean born?? Melanie Kate was born on July 1st and is about 
16 mths - Isn`t it a GORGEOUS age !!!!  I also have a little boy 
Matthew who will be 4 in Feb.. he is Melanie`s idol, she tries to do
and say everything he does!!

She is developing faster than he did, but I think that`s because he 
is there to help her along.

I agree - I am thrilled with the Netnews - 

I'm trying to find  out how to go about seeing if my sister in England
- who teaches at a University (and has a 17 mth old boy Jonathan) can 
access it too - not sure who to ask in what group though!!

Alice, Alleycat or the Brit :-)

Motorola Paging Div		Phone: (407) 364-2572
Mail stop 36			Fax:  (407) 364-3571
1500 NW 22nd Ave		Email: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com
Boynton Bch, FL 33426. USA
From: llf@alice.att.com (alice!llf)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Anyone can use timeout...(was RE: Spanking other peoples Kids, NOT
Date: 4 Nov 92 19:51:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24088
Reply-To: llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf)
Organization: New Jersey State Home for Bewildered Kittens

Diatribe:
I don't know why, but this topic always makes me see red.  Sigh.

I guess the reason is because some of the posters on the "NEVER SPANK"
side write as if they believe that any spanking falls under the definition
of (1) bad/lazy/uncontrolled/abusive parenting, (2) child abuse, (3) parents
that spank don't CARE that there are alternatives to spanking, and as a
corellary don't care about any possible (present or future) damage to
their children.  Conversely, there are posters on the "spank" side who are
just as bad.

I've seldom encountered more demeaning, intolerant, close-minded points
of view on this news group than I do when general discussions about spanking
arise.  (As opposed to specific requests for advice on specific problems.)

Part of the problem, of course, is that this group has never been able to
come to agreement on a definition of spanking.  To some posters, any action
that appears to make a physical contact is a spanking.  To others, you have
to leave red marks.  To yet others, it isn't a spanking until you break
something.  To some people, you're not a spanker unless it is an everyday
occurence.  To others, if you've done it once in the last 20 years, you're
a spanker.  To some, it's only okay if you do it when you're under severe
stress and finally lose your temper.  To others, it's only okay if you do
it as a cool, rational, pre-meditated action.

In any case, most people get so worked up about the issue that they can't
see any differences in degrees.

Each child and each situation is different.  There is no way to say that
what works for some will work for all.  Some of us have very easy
child-relationships, some of us have very difficult child-relationships.
Most of the people who post here are in constant search for new ideas and
ways to handle difficult situations.  Do you think that we could handle
general discussion about spanking in a less condemnatory fashion?
For example, while there are numerous research articles concluding that
spanking leads to negative behaviors in the long run, I have never seen
a discussion on just what those researchers define as "spanking".

(While I acknowledge that no-spanking is the currently politically correct
way to go, I believe that political un-correctness is not a valid condemnation
of someone elses parenting methods.  Invocation of supernatural super-authority
is probably not valid either.)

(I didn't see the 20/20 show.  However, most of the postings here lead me
to believe that the "spanking" example used is much closer to child abuse
than to mere spanking.  To me, at least, slapping someone around multiple
times an hour is not spanking, it's slapping someone around.)

Lynda
-- 
					Member HASA, Atheist-Scum Division
"The One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocalypse" - Terry Pratchet
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 01:25:31 GMT

Oh yes, I do have cute too.  Mitchell was Batman (of course) and Erin went
as cat woman.  I had been teaching her how to meow and she was really good
at it.  The costume also has these long claws that attach to the fingers.
Erin walked around with her hands out flexing her fingers and trying to
scratch people.  It was SO CUTE!!!!




-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: vnoronha@dagwood.intel.com (Valerie Noronha)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Humidifiers/Vaporizers Recommendations
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:04:20 GMT
Reply-To: vnoronha@dagwood.intel.com (Valerie Noronha)
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA

I am thinking of purchasing a humidifier/vaporizer and would like to see a
discussion on the different types and any recommendations.  I've had a
few minor respitatory ailments (allergies, colds, etc.) since I became
pregnant and with winter setting in and turning on the heater more, I'm 
thinking of using a humidifer.  I'd like to get one that I can use for the
baby as well when he/she is sick.

Some types I've read can actually cause more bacteria to grow due to the
damp environment and others may be a baby hazard due to boiling water.  I've
read that the cold mist vaporizer is best.  What do you recommend and do you
have any care/usage tips for safe/effective benefit?

If there is interest in this topic, I can post a summary.

Valerie Noronha
due 3-10-93
From: mark@e7sa.crd.ge.com (Mark Duening)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: test (sorry)
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:29:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

Sorry for the inconvenience, this is a test.
From: miki@aftac1.llnl.gov (R. Miki Moore 423-9712)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: mites and down comforter?
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:12:03 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Originator: miki@aftac1.llnl.gov


my mom has a brand-new down comforter she would like
to give to my 6yo son. however, i have heard that down
comforters harbor some kind of mites...my question is
are these different than normal dust mites? are they
dangerous? should i refuse the offer?

-- 
Miki Moore
Lawrence Livermore National Labs
All opinions are those of the author only
miki@aftac1.llnl.gov
-- 
Miki Moore
Lawrence Livermore National Labs
All opinions are those of the author only
miki@aftac1.llnl.gov
From: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Age, aging, and appearance
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:57:02 GMT
Reply-To: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

In article <3934@wyse.wyse.com> donna@wyse.wyse.com (Donna Diloreto x2231 dept302) writes:
>In article <1dei8bINNjpv@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>>
>I, too, look a lot younger than I am.  Unfortunately, I haven't enjoyed
>it too much.  At 21, I had my daughter.  Everyone thought I was a high-
>
>I should be happy that I look so youthful, but what I don't like is
>everyone assuming that I was a teenage mother.  I also don't like
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well after all, you were only 2 years from being a teenage mother.

>Sigh... My husband says I will happy I look young when I am in my 50's.
>I hope that by then, I will get the respect an older person deserves.

Trust me, your husband is right.  You'll be old a lot longer than you
were young.
>
>Donna
>mom to Paul 6 1/2 months
>   and Sheila 14 1/2 months

um..  I don't think this is physically possible.  Don't you mean 
14 years on the second one?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ashley@osc.edu (Ashley Burns)
Subject: Re: Long-sleeved Onesies
Organization: The Ohio Supercomputer Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:38:25 GMT

In article <BxAxn8.H82@unix.amherst.edu> njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal) writes:
>Maureen Busch (mbb@keps.kodak.com) wrote:
>: [Apologies to the select few who saw this the first time I posted it]
>: 
>: I was recently looking for some long-sleeved onesies for shower/baby gifts.
>: I had some when my now 4YO was a baby, and thought they were great.  I couldn't
>I just bought some long sleeve onesies and they were Carter's.  They
>were colorful and 100% coton...they were not as inexpensive as the
>short sleeve ones though.
>

If you are looking for some deluxe onesies (really nice little shirts), try
Gap Kids (label name is baby gap). I just bought some and love them, but
they're a lot more than the ones from Gerber or Carter. They have a good
sale rack at our local store, though; you can get things much cheaper 
than usual. 

--Ashley Burns, ashley@osc.edu

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler)
Subject: Re: parent/child relationships
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:58:13 GMT

kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue) writes:

>In article <1992Nov05.202538.899715@locus.com>
>judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
> 
>>There has been some discussion about not treating our children differently
>>than we would treat other adults and I must say that this concept terrifies
>>me.

>I think adult relationships have a lot of variety.  Some relationships are
>very superficial and, yes, you would throw the relationship away if it was
>not just what you wanted.  Other relationships are based on deeper involvement
>and I, at least, would NOT be inclined to throw them away; rather I would work
>to "fix" the relationship or at least to set bounds in which the relationship
>could continue.  I think there is a lot to be said for treating a child in
>many ways we would an adult with which we have a very significant, involved,
>emotional relationship.

Parenthood is a moral obligation (a call from God)
beginning at conception that continues throughout life.
Parents are their children's providers, teachers, and 
judges until they are mature enough to care for
themselves.
Children are not the equals of their parents until
they accept complete responsibilty for their lives
(and become adults themselves).

We can't expect children to behave like miniture
adults, because they are not.
Hospitals have pediatric wards (for children up to 16 
years, btw) to provide specialized care for children 
because their bodies are still developing.

Their emotional control and relationship skills are
also developing.  How can we expect children to
perform at a adult level without adult experience?

Good parents will attempt to instill independence
and self-responsibility into their children gradually.
Like any other sacred duty, it will involve much of 
the parents' time, love, prayers and fasting.

A IDLER
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.pets.cats
From: david@Armstrong.EDU (David Brown)
Subject: Cats in the crib
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:06:22 GMT


We are expecting our first child in February.  We've already got two
very jelous cats.  Neither can stand for the other to get our attention.
The smaller cat also likes climbing up on my chest to wake me up in the
middle of the night, when she's in the mood to be petted.  She's also kinda
dumb: I knock her off and she just comes back and wakes me again until
I put her outside and close the bedroom door.

All this is well and good until you put a child into the equation.  I'm 
more than a little apprehensive about having the cats inside when there's
a baby about.  In one of the baby 'Superstores' we saw this little tent-
like thing that goes over the crib.  It's attached with velcro straps, has
a large zipper that allows access to the crib and is made out of nylon
fishnet-like material.  Sounds like it would take care of the problem,
right?  The cheapest we've been able to find this thing is $90!!!

Any ideas where I could find this little item for a more realistic price?
How about other suggestions to keep the cats away from the child, especially
when he/she is sleeping?

Please e-mail any info or suggestions to me at david@pirates.armstrong.edu

Thanks!

--David
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Brown
ARPA: david@pirates.armstrong.edu
uucp:  ...!uunet!pirates!david
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re:  20/20 and spanking
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:38:31 GMT

Diane Lin writes:
>We plan to have regular family meetings to discuss the rules of the
>house, and we hope that the rules will be agreeable to everyone.  I
>sometimes rely on my son or husband for reality checks :-).  If a
>rule that I create is merely capricious, I certainly want to reflect on
>that and revoke it if it's a bad rule.

This reinforces something that I think is very important about parenting.
I think that the parents need to come to an informed agreement about
what sorts of rules are appropriate to enforce for their children at
various stages of their lives.  But I also think that the rules,
and their enforced (by the parents) consequences should be discussed
with the child *at an appropriate level and in appropriate ways* before
the rule is actually enforced.  Thus, the child has an avenue for
giving feedback to the parents on what he/she thinks.  We have occasionally
also listened to (unsolicited) advice from Tim on his opinions of our rules
and consequences for Anna.  Thus, my children *do* have input concerning
their spankings.  They are *not* arbitrary.

-- Misty


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
Subject: Re: Helpful Hints (was Re: Birth Announcement)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:39:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.191251.8418@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>, nicklaus@lonetree.physics.wisc.edu (Dennis Nicklaus) writes...
> 
>Just my personal opinion:  I think the whole "use special detergent, wash separately"
>business is a lot of hooey (unless you work on an oil-drilling rig or something).
> 

The only advantages I found to washing seperately were those tiny socks
didn't seem to get lost as easily if washed with only baby clothes,
and I usually presoak the kids clothes, which most of my clothes 
do not need.
                           Patti Twigg
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 5 Nov 1992 16:08:59 MST
From: <ICKAD@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "Winkin', Blinkin', and Nod"????
 <Bx3JCF.6vz@ocsmd.ocs.com> <92310.155811ICKAD@ASUACAD.BITNET>

Sorry--one correction in the last verse:

Wynken and Blynken *are* two little eyes
And Nod is a little head  . . .

(Not *have* ! :-)

--Jamie's Mommy (Karen Davis)
From: newell@sequent.com (Donald Newell)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:50:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov5.095030.11471
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.


>shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>
>Another thing I might do that sounds cruel to anti-spankers is to
>scold, tell him he's going to get spanked, and make him wait for
>it (and think about it during the wait).  This is how my parents
>connected the offense to the punishment, and I can attest to its
>effectiveness.
>

 I guess this is the Water Torture Theory of child raising.  Might I
 suggest putting a pillory in the front yard so all may know their shame.

 Don N.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gbk@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (g.b.karlovsky)
Subject: Re: Cute things they say 2.8 year old
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:36:32 GMT

In article <GeraldR.150.0@sunfish.ratsys.com> GeraldR@sunfish.ratsys.com (Gerald Ruderman) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.152439.26708@samba.oit.unc.edu> cew@med.unc.edu (Cathryn W. Chiesa) writes:
>>From: cew@med.unc.edu (Cathryn W. Chiesa)
>>Subject: Cute things they say 2.8 year old
>>Date: 3 Nov 92 15:24:39 GMT
>
>>Yesterday after considerable tugging and struggling I got
>>a tuttleneck over my son's head.  After I had it tucked
>>into his pants he looked at me and said, "When I get big
>>I am going to do that to you."  I don't know why manu-
>>facturers make such small openings in kid's shirts!!
>
>When by daughter was 2.5 and I was pushing her in a stroller a lot she once 
>said that when she was older she would do it to me. There will be a 
>beautiful irony in that if she ever does push me around in a wheel chair!
>
>Gerald Ruderman                                   geraldr@ratsys.com


And my daughte, at approximately age 2, responded to the story of her
being an itty-bitty baby in my tummy by saying some day, when she was
bigger, mommy would be an itty-biity baby in her tummy.  I really had
to squelch my laughter on that one.



	***********************************************************
	*							  *
	*   Gail Karlovsky	(gail.karlovsky@att.com)	  *
	*        		(mom to Adrienne - born 4/30/90)  *
	*							  *
	*							  *
	*   The ideas expressed here are mine and do not 	  *
	*   reflect the opinions of my employer.		  *
	*							  *
	***********************************************************



Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: joefw@eosdev1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joe Fulson-Woytek)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Reply-To: joefw@eosdev1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joe Fulson-Woytek 
Organization: NASA/GSFC, Code 935
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:51:41 GMT

I have the opposite concern - While not a Metallica fan, I do listen to a 
wide variety of what I (and what the radio station I listen to) would call 
cutting edge rock and roll (non top 40, non soft rock, but otherwise a
variety from folk rock to hard rock).  I cringe whenever I hear my daughter
listening to an Easy Listening station (but I keep my cringing internal - I
figure its up to her to find her own likes).  Fortuanately she does usually
keep her radio tuned to the "right" station.



Joe Fulson-Woytek
Code 902/Goddard DAAC
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
joefw@eosdev1.gsfc.nasa.gov  
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:09:46 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1drsqbINNo3l@gap.caltech.edu> floom@cco.caltech.edu (Laura E. Floom) writes:

Laura, this is just a coincidence, right?  I guess given the subject
of this thread, it just popped out at me.  This is one of the headers
in one of your recent articles...

 > NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Thumb Sucking and Handedness
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:35:51 GMT
Reply-To: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CDNSWC

My husband and I had an interesting conversation this weekend about
thumb sucking and handedness.

My kids are both confirmed thumb suckers.  My son has always sucked
his left thumb, and he is definitely left handed.  My daughter sucks
her right thumb, and I don't know yet which will be her dominant hand.
I _think_ she is going to be right handed, but at 4.5 months its a little
early to tell.  As a child, I sucked my right thumb and I am right handed.

I'd like to take a survey.  For all of you with kids who suck their
thumbs (or adults who sucked their thumbs as children) please respond.

Does your child suck the thumb on his/her dominant hand, or on the non-
dominant hand?

I'll tally up the results and post them.  (If you have any amusing anecdotes
to relate, please indicate whether you mind if they are posted.)

Diane Segelhorst
dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Mom to Brad, 2 1/4 years, and Carrie, 4 1/2 months
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:23:15 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <25830@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
>shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
 >|>  >>  Absolutely no playing
 >|>  >> with matches will be tolerated.  If spanking doesn't work, I'll go
 >|>  >> through everything I can think of, and get help if nothing works.
 >|>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 >|> This looks like an admission that it might not be 100% successful.
 >|> It also looks like a committment to do whatever it takes.
 >
>What I still don't understand, and you haven't justified at all, is why
>spanking should be the _first_ level of discipline in any case
>whatsoever.

If I stated it should be the first level of discipline, it was a
mistake.  I'm merely saying that "never spank" is just as wrong as
"always spank".  The quoted (to the 5th??) post is an extreme example
of something that seems (to me) to prove the "never" crowd wrong.  To
imitate one of my favourite radio personalities, I'm demonstrating
absurdity (of the "never" crowd) by being somewhat absurd myself.

Think about it -- are you willing to bet your child's life that method
X is going to work?? (This applies as much to spanking as anything
else) I'm not so trusting, so I keep ALL options open.

Dave