HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erussell@dvorak.amd.com (Ed Russell)
Subject: Re: Who's who of net.figure.skaters
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:37:56 GMT

In article <jkaplenk.727632257@lucpul.it.luc.edu> jkaplenk@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Joe Kaplenk) writes:
>In <93Jan19.125927pst.11912@alpha.xerox.com> Michel_Denber.WBST147@xerox.com writes:
>
>I've been pretty active in organizing competitive adult ice skaters 
>and am Chair of the newly formed USFSA Adult Skaters Advisory Committee
>as well as President and a founder of the Adult Skaters Forum, an independent
>organization of adult freestyle, figures, dance and pairs ice skaters.
>Adult competitive ice skaters, particularly in freestyle,  have had a
>lot of concerns and have felt left out, ignored, or even abused by the
>current system.  This is some of the concerns that we hope to address.  
>

What bugs me about this is that the COACHES as well as ISIA and USFSA have
a completely different set of standards for adults.  Not that I don't think
that the tests shouldn't be different in USFSA - but rather that passing
should be passing should be passing no matter what!  I don't want to pass
a test more easily than I would if I were 30 years younger.

I am also a little bugged that adult skaters do not have a USFSA national
competition to go to!  Where is it?  We need one!  ISIA has one (of sorts).

Regards, Ed.
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: pinch@cs.washington.edu (Ricardo Pincheira)
Subject: Re: MAD magazine and in-lining (was Re: Braking in general w/inlines)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 04:59:29 GMT

>>MAD magazine discusses this in their current issue. I believe that the
>>stopping technique has something to do with a brick wall. The consequences of
>>use of such a technique are illustrated on the front cover.
>
>I hate the ask this but isn't a brick wall an instantaneous stop in
>the FAQ?  All kidding aside using walls (cars, vans, etc) is a good
>emergency stop technique...if you learn how.  It beats getting run
>over...
>
>Anyway the quick synopsis in case it's not in the FAQ is to hold your
>arms out with elbows slightly bent fingers extended but pointing up.
>When the tips of the fingers hit the wall turn your head and do a push
>up (well add tension to the arms to break the impact).  We've

Hmmph.  Wonder if a variation of the curb ramming stop I learned (about) in
NYC would work here?  This is where you approach a curb at a near 90 degree
angle and just before impact you flip up your toes and so hit the edge
of the curb with the bottom of your skates, bend knees deeply to absorb
shock.  Saw a guy doing it on conventionals over and over again, and at a
great rate of speed too.  Anyways, perhaps something similar would work for
a wall? Not that *I*, for one, am about to try it.

Ricardo
From: ac999257@umbc.edu (ac999257)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Keywords: xxx
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:11:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: umbc8.1k4gftINN6ip
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

>In article <1993Jan25.220101.6723@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, kevin@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Kevin Anderson) writes:
>
>|> 6) My vote for tackiest event of the night: the tv people showed the above
>|> mentioned fall twice in slow motion.  Shades of Joe Theisman breaking his
>|> leg in slow motion on monday night football.

Most improved aspect of TV commentary:  I didn't once hear about Nancy
Kerrigan's mom being legally blind! And they didn't show her watching
the monitor. What an improvement!

Mary
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: bjornmu@idt.unit.no (Bj|rn P. Munch)
Subject: NEW World Records!!!  Koss: 6.38.77 :-)  Zandstra: 156.882
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:16:03 GMT

From the European "all-round" speed-skating championships in Herenveen:

Johan Olav Koss (NOR), who had complained about a bad cold the day
before, broke the 6.40 barrier as he improved his own world record on
5000m to the fantastic

   #####           #####   #####          ####### #######
  #     #         #     # #     #         #    #  #    #
  #                     # #     #             #       #
  ######           #####   #####             #       #
  #     #   ###         # #     #   ###     #       #
  #     #   ###   #     # #     #   ###     #       #
   #####    ###    #####   #####    ###     #       #

With that, he is also the first (and only) skater to get less than 40
combination points on the 5000m.

Falco Zandstra (NED) also went below the previous record; he clocked
in at 6.40.01 in the next pair.  He couldn't beat Koss' finish...

Zandstra won both the 500m, the 1500m and the 10000m, setting a new
combination world record with

     #    #######  #####           #####   #####   #####
    ##    #       #     #         #     # #     # #     #
   # #    #       #               #     # #     #       #
     #    ######  ######           #####   #####   #####
     #          # #     #   ###   #     # #     # #
     #    #     # #     #   ###   #     # #     # #
   #####   #####   #####    ###    #####   #####  #######

points.

Of course, Koss will beat him in the world championship @Hamar in
three weeks :-)

If there is any interest (and if I find the time), I can post more
results, both men's and women's.

---
Bj|rn P. Munch               | Dept. of Comp. Science & Telematics,
Bjoern.P.Munch@idt.unit.no   | Norwegian Institute of Technology (NTH),
PhD Student                  | N-7034 Trondheim, Norway
Univeristy of Trondheim      | Fingerable addr:  bjornmu@multe.idt.unit.no
From: ac999257@umbc.edu (ac999257)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:31:12 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu
Keywords: xxx

In article <1993Jan25.220101.6723@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> kevin@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:
>
>4) John Curry has AIDS???
>

I wasn't going to post this because I thought might spark some 
unnecessary nasty discussion. But I've since decided that no 
discussion of this issue is a waste of time. You tell me.

There was an article in last week's People magazine (Hillary Clinton on
the cover) about figure skaters who have died or are dying of AIDS.
This was not a tasteless article or a gay bashing article, but IMHO
a sensitive description of some of the people in the sport who have
contracted AIDS. Does anyone want a summary of the article? If enough
do, I'll post some clips from it.

Mary
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: kevin@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Kevin Anderson)
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Summary: xxx
Keywords: xxx
Reply-To: kevin@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 22:01:01 GMT

OK, here's my observations/comments/opinions/ideas on the Nationals:

1) In all catagories there were no exceptional performances except for
Scott Davis who really wowed the crowd.  His opening triple axel was
really enhanced by his music (the slow buildup to a sudden blast of
music from West Side Story: he timed it perfectly).  BTW, was he
supposed to be a jet or a shark (not hockey) :-) ?

2) None of the women did particularly well except Lisa Ervin.  Nancy
Kerrigan seemed to be listless out there.  The announcers commented that
she was "playing it safe".  Even her trademark spiral didn't have the
usual impact it usually does (she looked like she was just going 
through the motions). 

3) Of the top 6 women, 2 of them were 15 years old and 1 of them was, get
this, **12**!!  Are they getting younger or am I getting older?  Are these
girls loosing out on their childhood?  Here's a topic for discussion:  is 
it worth it?  IMO, no.

4) John Curry has AIDS???

5) My vote for most gutty performance goes to the pair team that fell on
one of their overhead lifts (I forget their names).  The woman fell over
6 feet flat on the ice.  I thought she killed herself (and so did her
partner by the look on his face).  She got up and they finished the program.
You could tell by the look on her face that she never recovered physically
or mentally from the fall (she fell 2 more times), but she kept going.  
Mega Kudos to her.

6) My vote for tackiest event of the night: the tv people showed the above
mentioned fall twice in slow motion.  Shades of Joe Theisman breaking his
leg in slow motion on monday night football.  

7) Anyone catch Calla Urbanskis (attempted) double axel?  She does her axel
by throwing her right arm forward *before* her free leg starts in motion.  
As the free leg comes forward she pulls her arm *back* in order to get into
the rotational position.  Pretty wild.  Kids, do not try this at home.

Did anyone watch Stars on Ice before the Nationals?  I was going to repost 
a review I did of it a few weeks ago, but I don't know if anyone even 
watched it, let alone cares about it.  I will say, though, that it was
a lot better live than it was on tv.

Kevin Anderson
From: skk@gsg.pa.dec.com (Stuart Kreitman)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: NCD roller hockey tonight?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:41:52 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: skk@gsg.pa.dec.com (Stuart Kreitman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gsg.pa.dec.com


A while back, someone at NCD posted about an informal hockey games in the
parking lot. Are you out there? Should I drop by tonight?

skk
From: erussell@dvorak.amd.com (Ed Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:05:47 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1k3ohvINNnq0@mojo.eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
> Supporters of figures saw it as necessary to being a
>good skater, while opponents thought that piano players may practice
>scales, but you don't judge a piano player by listening to scales, but
>by the performance.
>
True, but I'll bet that great piano players can do great scales too....
Unfortunately figures are dropped from the requirements for Juniors and Seniors
already.  In the US at least they are still required for Novice.  But the
higher figures are now gone from the requirements - about 4 years worth of
delays in getting to Seniors.  That will speed the entry to Seniors up quite
a bit overall.  

>
>    Do figures actually do this?  It seems to me that what they do is decide
>whether or not people can do figures.   If they wanted some art, then they
>should put more emphasis on the artistic merit.   I was watcing the Olympics,
>I believe, when Hamilton claimed that skater, David Lou, was artisitically,
>very nice, but because he couldn't do the technical aspects very well (i.e.,
>triples), he left them out, and hence was penalized both on artistic and
>technical merit.   There are two ways out, as I see it.   Either create
>something that is like the equivalent of ice dancing for singles where
>only nothing more than a double jumps (if at all) can be done, or have the
>artisitic merit really count for something.
>
Figures per se don't cause the art to be there, they allow the time for the    
art to develop.  There are 4 levels of figures that are now missing from
Seniors competition.  It used to average about a 4 year delay from Novice
to Seniors.  4 years is a lot of development.

On the art issue - I want to see the art in the sport.  But it is hard to
judge art, and easy to judge jumps and spins.  Art is truely in the eye of
the beholder.  How do you suggest that the art be judged?  As for Ice
Dancing - the move from the IOC is apparently away from entertainment to
more athleticism and ballroom style.

Regards, Ed.
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: kimon@orac.holonet.net (Kimon Papahadjopulos)
Subject: Re: Skates are faster than bikes! (was: AST
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:03:29 GMT

>>pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

>>>The thing I've heard about the close-quarters downhills is that the rearmost
>>>person pushes on the person in front of him who pushes on the person in front
>>>of him, who pushes [...]. The person at the front of the line can literally
>>>have hundreds of pounds of pressure on his hips adding to his acceleration
>>>going down the hill. 

>matocha@engr.latech.edu (Kevin Matocha) writes:

>>This is the old idea that a cannonball falls faster than the feather.  
>>The line of skaters should only be able to gain greater acceleration through
>>the minimization of air drag.  

matt@unidata.ucar.edu (Matt Hicks) writes:

>Right. Nobody's pushing on anybody. It's the same idea as in auto racing.

No...there is a big difference and pushing the skater in front of you is the
key.

When you are drafting somebody properly it is very easy to keep with them
even though they may be working very hard-- you find yourself easily gliding
behind them (if you are at least as quick a skater as they are, that is).

Often times you think...Dang... this guy is going too slow!  So you pull out
and try to pass him.  Then you realize how much work he was doing for you,
and you pull back behind.

So if you don't touch him, you just save energy, but can't go any faster than
he would be going on his own.

Then a lightbulb lights up...  Say! I could go faster, but he is in front of
me...  How about I help push him and we will both go faster!

Ah, now you've got something-- You are using the excess power that you
have because he is cutting the wind for you to help both of you go faster.

As more and more skaters pile on behind pushing together, you begin to
approach the speed that you could maintain if there were no wind resistance.
This is because as you get farther and father back in the skating line, wind
resistance is less and less significant.

Which is the original premise of which we were pondering: can skaters in a
pack might go faster than bikes-- especially on hills since they can
reduce the effects of wind resistance more effectively than bikers because
they can touch one another.

>It shouldn't actually make much difference on a descent

Oh, man it does!  If you've ever been in one of these skating columns or
been passed up by one, you would not bother trying to disprove it with
physics!

Kimon Papahadjopoulos
kimon@holonet.net
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: erussell@dvorak.amd.com (Ed Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Who's who of net.figure.skaters
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:55:32 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <38733@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <1jl2rfINN9v9@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> mark@sdd.hp.com (Mark Overton) writes:
>> 
>>In August, a co-worker invited me to go ice skating with her.  I was reluctant
>>to go because I knew what would happen. :-(  Sure enough, I get on the ice,
>>and could barely even stand up in the skates, much less skate anywhere.
>>I think I fell down four times during that session.  I was what I call a "rail
>>clinger".  I looked over at the figure skaters so effortlessly doing their
>>tricks:  "Wow!!! How do they do it?!!!"
>
>I'm pretty horrible this way - as mentioned before, I'm not really a very
>good skater and my moves are somewhat limited, but give me a chance to show
>off in front of some relative newcomers and the ham really comes forth.
>I mean nobody's going to clap, but just the comment "you make that look easy"
>charges the ego for the night.
>

One of the few nice things about being at an Ice Capades shopping mall rink
is that when you do get better (it takes a few years) shoppers walking around
the edges actually do sometimes CLAP!  There are also those Kodak moments 
when one of the little kids asks if you USED to be an Ice Skater!  Eventually
someone will ask you if you teach ....  If you work at it, all of these 
will eventually happen!

Ed.
From: wmc@photon.com (Bill Cornette)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US Nationals report
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:09:19 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Sandra Loosemore (loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu) wrote:
: First of all, the men's competition.  It's really a shame that ABC didn't
: show Rudy Galindo or Michael Chack because they both skated very, very
: well in the long program.  They'd both messed up their combinations in the
: technical program and didn't place high enough to make it into the final
: group.  Anyway, Galindo hit *all* of his elements and got a standing

	I agree about both -- but Chack ended up third.  I haven't seen the
TV coverage, having been in Phoenix all week, but since when don't they
cover the bronze medal winner?  Also, Rudy finished 4th in the long and 5th
over all.

: The ladies' competition was, to put it bluntly, BORING.  The overall
: technical level of the skating was quite low, and the only one who really
: skated a *program* with any enthusiasm or feeling to it was Lisa Ervin.

	Again, I agree whole heartedly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
William M. Cornette         Photon Research Associates, Inc.
(619) 455-9741              10350 N. Torrey Pines Road, Suite 300
FAX (619) 455-0658          La Jolla, California  92037
wmc@photon.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L.
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: matt@unidata.ucar.edu (Matt Hicks)
Subject: Re: Skates are faster than bikes! (was: AST
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:01:08 GMT

matocha@engr.latech.edu (Kevin Matocha) writes:

>> The thing I've heard about the close-quarters downhills is that the rearmost
>> person pushes on the person in front of him, who pushes on the person in front
>> of him, who pushes [...]. The person at the front of the line can literally
>> have hundreds of pounds of pressure on his hips adding to his acceleration
>> going down the hill. 

>This is the old idea that a cannonball falls faster than the feather.  
>The line of skaters should only be able to gain greater acceleration through
>the minimization of air drag.  

Right. Nobody's pushing on anybody. It's the same idea as in auto racing.
It shouldn't actually make much difference on a descent, but when the racers
are on a flat, you end up with two skaters working against the resistance
of one (+ a little). The lead skater still has to contend with the resistance
of their frontal surface area, but loses the drag produced by the trailing
turbulence; the reverse is true for the trailing skater. Note that this 
doesn't equate to twice the power versus the same resistance; rather, each
skater is dealing with some fraction (probably 70-90%) of the original
resistance and they are thus able to go X miles an hour faster. The reason
it doesn't matter much on a descent is that the skaters aren't working
against air resistance--gravity is doing the work, which remains constant
assuming constant pitch--and it doesn't matter how the resistance is divided
up if the total resistance remains the same. Note, too, that adding more 
skaters between the two should have a minimal impact on skating speed--the
lead skater gains no more advantage from two or more skaters behind him
(or her) than s/he does from one. And it is the lead skater who dictates
the speed of the line. Of course, all the skaters behind the leader get
to skate without frontal resistance and will stay fresh longer than the
leader or a lone skater (assuming proper conditioning, of course).

--
_________________________________________________  /\_/\  _________________
Matthew  B.  Hicks     | Unidata Program Center | ((ovo))  The spotted owl:
matt@unidata.ucar.edu  | UCAR, PO Box 3000      | ():::()  the other "other
303/497-8676	       | Boulder, CO 80307-3000 |   VVV    white meat."
From: ac999257@umbc.edu (ac999257)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 00:11:49 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

In article <1jvbgdINNerh@mojo.eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>there is also an ordinal given to the two skaters if they are reanked high enough.
>My problem is not with the ordinals which may give scores that are artificially
>high (i.e., a 5.9 in the Nationals would probably by a 5.6 or lower in the
>Worlds), but with the fact that historically good skaters seem to automatically
>have their scores boosted.   For example, suppose Nancy Kerrigan and, oh,
>Nicole Bobek switched the routines, and each skated as well as the other
 ...

I'm not sure of the exact scores in the women's competition on Saturday,
but I'd be careful about thinking Nancy won because she was given
automatic higher scores. She was in 1st going in to the long program,
followed by Tonya H.G., Nicole B., Tonya K., and Lisa Ervin in that
order. Remember, if any of the top three won the long program, they
would win the overall competition. For Tonya K. or Lisa Ervin to win
Nancy would have had to finished probably 3rd or lower, or something
like that. ABC didn't say who won the long program, but since Lisa
and Tonya moved up (Lisa from 5th to 2nd!), it's possible Nancy didn't
win the long program. I'd check the exact finishes first, before
thinking Nancy got history marks. 

I personally thought Lisa was better
than Nancy, but Nancy had a really big lead over Lisa to begin with
so Nancy would have had to do lots worse for Lisa to have won overall.
(By the way, I've seen Nancy's performances in the Nationals and the
worlds for the past few years, and she's never been dazzling in any
of those competitions, so I don't understand why anyone would think
she's a historically good skater. She is nice to watch in exhibition
though.)

Did anyone keep track of the exact scores and how the skaters
finished in each portion of the competition? That might help
understand why the skaters ended up the way they did.

Mary
From: naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takashima)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: T-stop
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:41:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD
NNTP-Posting-Host: valkyrie.eng.umd.edu
Originator: naru@valkyrie.eng.umd.edu


I've been roller-blading for about a year now, and I can manage to
stop myself quite well using either the heel brake or power sliding.
However, I have a difficlut time trying to stop using t-stop. I always
seem to spin around and really can't scrub off any speed. 

Can anyone tell me what is the proper techinique involved in t-stopping?

Thanks,
Naru Takashima
From: uwe@cc.gatech.edu (Uwe Brockmann)
Subject: Reply: Address of Speedskating Times
Reply-To: uwe@cc.gatech.edu (Uwe Brockmann)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:24:31 GMT

Two people asked me for the address of Speedskating Times already. So
here it is:

Speedskating Times
2910 NE 11th Ave.
Pompano, FL 33064
U.S.A.
Fax/phone: 305-782-5928

Speedskating Times is printed 8 times a year: Dec. 1, Jan. 15, Mar. 1,
Apr. 15, Jun. 1, July 15, Sept. 1, Oct. 15. Subscription via First Class
mail is $25.00 per year; Third Class $15.00 per year; Canadian and
Foreign $30.00 in U.S. funds only.

[(Mr.) Uwe (pronounced "oova") Brockmann, (404)892-4872, uwe@cc.gatech.edu]
Newsgroups: rec.skate