HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: FCC Deregulation? Re: Sorry State of Classical Radio
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date:  7 Apr 92 17:27:27 GMT


Two Comments 1) The Broadcast bands are limited, very limited. The "Market"
is not unregulated, the FCC has a mandate to limit what gets on to serve
the public interest. The problem for classical stations is that some of
the protections of this diversity have been removed and the market forces
are setting up the lowest common demoninator. What classical stations that
can survive this must modify their programming to appeal to what they think
is their market segment, i.e. they let the marketing department tell them
how to program. KIBE has a picture of conservative yuppies driving around
in theiBMWs. What is wrong with that? Nothing except you get what you
deserve. I also have the mandate to file my letter of complaint with the
FCC when the time comes to renew the license. Maybe the people in the
San Francisco deserve another rap station.

	2) The guy, volenteer, who only plays 15 CD's, but where the
station had a huge collection of CD's obviously doesn't know the
literature. The station gets what IT deserves unless it can find
someone who does know the literature, and maybe it ought to go to
the news format.

Bruce Salem
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bartok String Quartets -- HELP
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:00:14 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

The classic recording of these is by the Juilliard Quartet (actually, I think
they recorded them twice). I don't know if the Juilliard versions are out on CD.
Also, I thought the Emerson had recorded these a few years ago for Nonesuch, and
received rave reviews.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Cor ANGLIAS or ANGL'E
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 18:50:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <CB.92Apr7110212@tamarack12.timbuk> cb@tamarack12.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>I have a question, which may have been already answered by implication, but
>I need it spelled out: how are oboe, English horn, and bassoon related?  Is
>any of these a bigger or smaller version of another (analogous to cornet
>and baritone horn) or is there more to the difference than size?
>
>Chris Brewster

OK--The oboe, oboe d'amore, English horn and bass oboe are the soprano thru
bass members of the oboe family respectively.  The Hecklephone, used in place
of a bass oboe at times is made by the Heckel Co of bassoon making fame.  But
none of these instruments are related to the bassoon.  The only real 
similarity is that bothe use double reeds.  But the difference between the
reeds are huge.  Aside from size, the oboists tie the cane onto a metal tube
known as a staple.  The bassoonists have no staple--that is to say that the
inside of their reeds are all cane.  Enough??
Harold
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sibelius Violin Concerto
Date: 12 Apr 92 10:08:13 GMT
Organization: Ifi, University of Trondheim / AVH

In article <1992Apr11.135957.3324@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.174152.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>>In article <996@xlnt.COM>, david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
>>> In article <1992Apr7.020718.15812%mr804321@cs.nthu.edu.tw>,
mr804321@cs.nthu.edu.tw (mr80) writes:
>
>>> 
>>> Pardon my ignorance, what are the other three greatest violin concerti?
>>> I can think of what would be considered the four most *popular* violin
>>> concerti but I think it is difficult to say which are the four greatest.
>>
>>I agree, but I'll stick my neck out anyway. IN my opinion they are,
>>chronologicall, Beethoven, Brahms, Sibelius and Elgar.
>>
>As tradition dies hard w.r.t. classical music, I think  the standard
>"four most popular" violin concerti are Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaik, and
>Mendelssohn.  Of course, as we've seen, this doesn't necessarily match
>anyone's "favorites"--(in my case, only one of these 4 makes it--I'd
>take the Barber, Sibelius, and Bruch over the Beethoven, Brahms and
>Mendelssohn any day).
>--j.e.f.
>

Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn - of course. Everybody
mentions them. I agree that they are great, but what about some of the
more "modern"? Personally I would add

Schostakovitch 1. , Elgar and one of Prokofievs.

Any other suggestions?


Terje Rydland
From: n2473@ASPEN.CRAY.COM (Robert Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Wayne Peterson
Date: 9 Apr 92 11:33:22 GMT

The following is the blurb from yesterday's New York Times on Wayne Peterson,
the 1992 recipient of the 1992 Pulitzer Prize for music (reprinted without
permission):

Wayne Peterson "The Face of the Night, The Heart of the Dark"

Wayne Peterson, a 64-year-old composer and pianist, lives in San Francisco
but is currently a visiting professor of composition at Indiana University,
in Bloomington.  His orchestral work, "The Face of the Night, the Heart of
the Dark" is a two-movement score that lasts about 19 minutes.  Mr. Peterson
described his style as "fairly dissonant," but added, "In this particular
piece, the lines are much longer than in previous works I've written, and
there is a re-emerging tonal element."  Mr. Peterson studied at the University
of Minnesota and the Royal Academy of Music, in London.  He was a professor
of music at San Francisco State University from 1960 until his retirement
last year. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did anyone hear "The Face of the Night, The Heart of the Dark" last night 
on NPR?  They played a recording of the world premier made last October 
(?) with the San Francisco Orchestra.

Nice, in my opinion, but certainly not new stuff.  I found his orchestration
to be quite similar to that of Jacob Druckman.  (Perhaps they've worked
together.)  And his overall development was somewhat truncated and flat 
for me.  His thematic vocabulary did keep my interest, however, 
perhaps because there were exquisitely subtle jazz shades throughout 
that revealed themselves without compromising the piece's "contemporary"
character. 

I would probably buy this recording.  It's worth a critical listening to.


BB
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Sibelius Violin Concerto
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:04:56 GMT

In article <s50e8INN2pf@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> jcm@cfm.brown.edu (Javier Cruz-Mena) writes:
>
>	In general, Beethoven's, Tschaikovsky's, Sibelius' and Brahms' are the four
>concerti which ought to be on the top of any violinist's standard list. Some people 
>argue for sneaking Bruch's concerto in as well.

I think Mendelsohn, rather than Sibeliuus, is usually placed in the top 4.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: fkuhl@snare.mitre.org (F. S. Kuhl)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Ralph Vaughn Williams?
Reply-To: fkuhl@snare.mitre.org (F. S. Kuhl)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:49:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.044613.27797@cs.uoregon.edu>, pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark) writes:
|> 
|> if you haven't already, you might enjoy checking out the original
|> work by tallis upon which rvw's fantasia is based.  it is available
|> on cd, but i don't have the reference handy.  i believe it is one
|> of the "english anthems."

It's included in the Tallis Scholars' disc _English Anthems_ (of Tallis)
as one of several tunes Tallis wrote for Bishop Parker's metrical psalter,
if I remember correctly.  It's interesting to hear how much RVW lifted
of Tallis' harmonization.
-- 
Frederick Kuhl			fkuhl@mitre.org
Center for Advanced Aviation System Development
The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Virginia
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Samindranath Mitra)
Subject: Re: wozzeck
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 19:15:31 GMT

	The best bet is the Decca/London recording, conducted by 
Dohannyi with the Vienna Philharmonic. It's a dramatic,
in-your-face performance that is highly effective. Wachter is
a wonderful Wozzeck, and Silja, with her piercing voice and all,
an impressive Marie. The orchestral textures are awesome. The
recording is also in wonderful sound, letting your sound system
enjoy itself to its fullest!
         You also get Schoenberg's Erwartung as a bonus.
From: drijbo@one-iron.Corp.Sun.COM (Jonathan Osser)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:28:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: one-iron.corp.sun.com

In article <1992Apr7.200235.10815@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>In article <1992Apr07.185025.204871@cs.cmu.edu>
>hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:
>>
>>OK--The oboe, oboe d'amore, English horn and bass oboe are the soprano thru
>>bass members of the oboe family respectively.
>
>I'm wondering whether the implied analogy with the four standard human
>voice ranges might be misleading here.

Well, no analogy is perfect.
I suspect Harold is using this analogy in relative terms, since...

>With the saxophone family the
>ranges of the soprano, alto, tenor, baritone and bass instruments are
>in roughly the same relation as the corresponding voice ranges;

with the bass an octave below the tenor?  That's a bit wide for voices,
notwithstanding a few scattered examples (Strauss, Mozart, and Josquin
on the bottom; some bel canto stuff on top).

>likewise
>the four sizes of trombones, though the soprano and (more recently) alto
>trombones are obsolete or nearly so [original instruments revivals may
>change this].

I'm not familiar with the soprano trombone--can someone post something
about it?  Was it used to double sopranos in early 17thC choral music?
Is it pitched an octave above the tenor?  What clef was it normally
written in?

The alto trombone is alive and well in several mainstream orchestras I've
seen performing 19thC music.  Most of the alto parts can be managed on
a tenor, but why strain yourself?  And the Rhenish is tough.  Also there's
a glissando in Gurrelieder which can only be played on an Eb instrument.

As for bass trombones, I've seen a variety of instruments labelled as
bass (or contrabass) trombones so I'm not sure what range to compare with
the voice.

>With the oboes it seems to me that soprano, mezzo, alto
>and tenor might be a nearer approximation than the usual SATB line.

If you insist....

>(When
>it comes to trumpets it's probably better to drop the analogy entirely ---
>the ranges are too high and too close to each other.)

... which may be why we don't hear the terms soprano, alto, and tenor applied
to trumpets.  Clarinets present more of a problem--if memory serves, the
alto is a fourth above the bass.  Not much room to slip a tenor in there,
especially since clarinets already come in ten sizes (that I can think
of offhand).

(and while we're at it, if someone invented a viola da caccia, where
would *it* fit in?)

--
Jon
drijbo@one-iron.Corp.Sun.COM
From: danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:22:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr14.162253.14096
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
dkmenser@athena.cas
.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:

>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
>series?

"Dragnet", starring Jack Webb and Harry Morgan, back in the 50's
and later re-incarnated as "Badge 714" (in the 60s or 70s...?).

Dan Hobbs
danielh@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: The Glory (????) of the Human Voice
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:18:35 GMT

I see that The Glory (????) of the Human Voice featuring Florence Foster
Jenkins has just been released on cd (RCA).
Is this entertaining enough to shell out 10 bucks for? I've heard that
it's painfully funny.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jsh@leland.stanford.edu
Subject: Address for Performers Facsimile
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 02:03:41 GMT

I recently came across an edition of the Leclair Op. 3 Sonatas for Two
Unaccompanied Violins printed by Performers Facsimile of New York. It's a
wonderful copy of the original music as it appeared in Paris (complete with
cover page and in hand-written form). I would like to obtain the complete
catalog of their library, but unfortunately there is no address anywhere to be
found in the music. Would someone who is familiar with this publisher please
send me email or post a message to this newsgroup as to how I might contact the
publisher? Thanks in advance. 

Jim Hahn
Dept. of Economics
Stanford University
jsh@leland.stanford.edu

"Let's get Bizet!"
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:31:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <1992Apr16.183219.9213@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:
>|> >(Once again, need I point out that such a response comes from someone whose
>|> >machine name ends in ".edu"?)
>
>|> so what
>
>So look at your own comment about *most people*.  No one in the real world
>would make such an outrageous claim.
>

wrong again.  it is YOU who is in the minority.  i remember hearing on
some news show that in a poll about 60% of Americans say it is
appropriate for the government to fund the arts.        

Jeff
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:49:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Educational Computing Network

There was a discussion on this in another (more rock-n-roll oriented)
newsgroup, and I wish I still had a copy of my note.  It was partially
related to censorship too.  It concerned who should decide the
recipients of government art grants.  I had said that it shouldn't be
the politicians.  The grants boards would be composed of artists, museum
curators, educators, writers-critics, arts foundation types, 
and similar people.  No other strings should be legislated.
This of course won't be perfect, lots of possibilities for the usual
patronage corruptions, but it probably is the best way.  You can choose
boards to reflect a great diversity of opinions, which is less likely if
the source is private.

There was some question as to whether the boards would choose trivial
art to grant.  It is possible, but I don't think it is likely.  It is true
that worthy artists may fall through the cracks, but remember, we are
talking about choosing "most optimal solutions", not utopia.

One point I mentioned because the readers of the newsgroup were rock fans,
and they might not appreciate the importance of artists that have more
limited popular appeal, was that some of the Beatles most creative work
was influenced by Stockhausen.  Stockhausen of course would never have
come up with music like the Beatles, but at the very least, he showed
them how wild a trip you could have, and further many of the works from Sgt
Peppers, Magical Mystery Tour use Stockhausen technqiues.  So without
the heavily subsidized Stockhausen, how much would the Beatles evolved
past Twist and Shout?

Furthermore, most of the electronic instruments that are popular today,
built of course by private industries, are based on theories that were
developed by government supported research.  (O.R.T.F.)  Were the hell
was Yamaha in the early 50s?
( Of course for some people that like acoustic music, that might be a good
argument against government funding. ;)

So for my tax money, I want the feds and the state to support art, using
the criteria I outline in the first paragraph.

Jeff
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: "Street Scene", American Opera, Menotti, Weisgall
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:48:28 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Apr15.140425.23584@linus.mitre.org> rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer) writes:

>I think some good American operas are:

[among others:]

>Ward (Robert?):  The Crucible

Yes, Robert Ward.

>Do Menotti's operas count as American?  

Fine by me.  My favorite of his dramatic works, besides The Telephone,
is his semi-ballet masque for chorus and instruments, "The Unicorn, the
Gorgon, and the Manticore."  I think that's a quite wonderful piece of
music, moving, ingenious, and funny.  It might come as quite a pleasant
surprise to someone who otherwise doesn't care for Menotti.  Angel ought
to reissue their mono recording of it; even better, someone might make a
new one.

>I am interested in getting to know American 
>opera better.  Right now I am working on Hugo
>Weisgall's Purgatory:  difficult music set to
>a difficult text by Yeats.  Has anyone heard any
>of his operas?  

I've studied the score of his setting of of "Six Characters in Search of
an Author," which is on Chicago Lyric Opera's list of American operas
they're going to revive (or have they done it already?).  It looked very
interesting on the page.

>I also would like to hear
>Wuthering Heights, which I think has two
>versions.

Unfortunately neither one seems to have solved the problem of conveying
the book's mysterious power, or substituting something new of their own.
Carlisle Floyd's setting was performed at Santa Fe in the 1950s, and to
my knowledge hasn't been seen much (or at all) since.  Bernard
Herrmann's setting was written in the 1940s, while he was writing all
those movie scores; the libretto is by his then wife, Louise Fletcher
(the author of Sorry Wrong Number and other suspense classics).  He
managed to get it recorded in England in the 1970s, but its first stage
performance didn't take place till after his death, in 1983 -- in
Portland if memory serves.  Consensus at the time was that the
orchestral music was atmospheric and striking but that he didn't know
how to write for voices or to command the stage.  I don't think it's
been performed since then.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: jeffs@telxon.uucp (Jeff Sutherland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Good Perf Major Schools?????
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:28:27 GMT
Reply-To: jeffs@telxon.UUCP (Jeff Sutherland)
Organization: Telxon Corporation, Akron Ohio (NNTP with a :-)

In article <1992Apr2.220533.2572@vax1.umkc.edu> jbarron@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Hello, I am fed up with the conservatory that I am going to...
>I am interested in strings....cello,  to be specific
>Thank you, Thank you 
>Jennifer

Have you written to Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio?  Sounds like they have
what you are looking for, although they are private and the tuition is
pretty steep.

Good luck!

/*  Jeff  */
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Dives and Lazarus (was Re: Anyone heard of RVW?)
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:22:10 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

David Tate writes:
>>Also check out Six Variants on Dives and Lazarus (it's pronounced
>>*die*-vees and I'm ashamed to say I don't know why).  

>I believe it's "Lazarus and Dives", not the other The refers to a
>folk song recounting the parable of the rich man in Hell (Dives) who
>asks the former beggar (Lazarus), who used to beg for scraps at his
>table, to dip his finger in the water and bring him a drop to drink.

Well, the folk song may be Lazarus and Dives, but the RVW piece is
definitely Dives and Lazarus.  Of course, now I know *why*... :)

And I don't dislike the Greensleeves either; I just enjoy Dives and
Lazarus more.  I am one of those people who believes that there are
certain tunes that are so lovely that you can't mess them up and
Greensleeves is one of them.

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.arts.dance
From: nerone@alessia.dei.unipd.it (Elena Borgatti)
Subject: Re: my feelings on Nutcracker...
Organization: D.E.I. Universita' di Padova (Italy)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 07:09:57 GMT

In article <2033@cypress.UUCP> jql@cypress.com.UUCP (Julie Lewis--Applications) writes:
>
>And even if a ballet doesn't have deep meaning, so what?  Ballet is very much
>art for art's sake.  When ballet is performed by someone competent it is incredibly
>beautiful to watch.  And being a frustrated dancer and choreographer, I can
>appreciate the technical skill it requires as well.

I disagree with what you said. Ballet is not only made of technical skillness!
Technique is only an instrument on the service of the art, nothing more.
If you think about Fokine's coreographies you can find in them perhaps the
best expression of human feelings. Let's think about the symbol of ballet :
"Death of the Swan" . It was created for a great dancer (Anna Pavlova) who
had a very bad tecnique, but when she danced the Swan she was increadibly
artistic. Let's talk about "Petrouchka" : it was created for Nijinskj who
had an extraordinary technique, but in that ballet he doesn't use technique
because that wasn't the point. Art is not technique!

				Elena
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Theme in Handel and Mozart
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:24:37 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr14.200619.26812@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
 rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu.UUCP (John Rickert) writes:

>   In Handel's _Messiah_ the theme in the chorus "And with His stripes
>we are healed" is the same as one of the subjects in the "Kyrie" of the
>Mozart _Requiem_.  Is it known for certain whether Mozart was deliberately
>quoting Handel, or did he just coincidentally use the same theme?

It was a pretty popular fugue subject.  The finale of Haydn's quartet,
Op. 20 #5, is almost the same thing ,and in Handel's F minor, too.  

Now look at the countersubject of the Kyrie fugue.  Does it sound even a
little like "we have turned" to you?  Remember, this is only a few years
after Mozart orchestrated "Messiah".

Every one to his own way,

Roger
From: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:57:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.14621
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

In article <31353@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>In article <DF4NiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP> pfaust@b-cpu.UUCP (Pete Faust) writes:

>     Germans and we of German descent are sons and daughters
>of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Wagner, Haydn,
>Handel, Humperdinck, Johann and Richard Strauss, Berg,
>Webern, Hindemith, Schnittke, Goethe, Schiller, Kant, Hegel,

>       Is there any particular reason Schoenberg is left out of the
>	above, but not his students Webern and Berg?

>Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, ad infinitum.  We have not gassed (a
>new dimension in inhumanity) and do not gas people...any
>people.

Mendelssohn, Mahler, Marx, Freud and Einstein are also conspicuosly
absent from this anti-semite's posting.












-- 
Ross Starkey                         "Of course you know, this means WAR." 
rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu        "This whole thing is goony, I shou'da
                                      stood in bed!"  "Gruesome, isn't it?"
FIGHT DICTATORSHIP!  VOTE!!!!                                  --Bugs Bunny
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical