HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Historical Survey Question
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:24:42 GMT

In article <1a7btlINNgqt@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>
>If you don't want to swaddle her, make her a little tiny T-tunic long
>enough to cover the mundane diaper.  
>
>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt

Here's a simple idea for folks with children who want some easy, durable,
and easily washed garb for them. Authenticity Warning! What I'm about to
suggest uses a non-period material. ;-)

Take a simple cotton (yes, cotton) T-shirt (preferably without pocket),
larger than the child would normally wear, add some trim to the sleeves,
hem, and collar (the collar shape can be altered to, but it's more work),
and voila. You now have a comfortable t-tunic for you bairn.

This also works for adults, but you have to be on the short side of tall,
like me. In this case you go to the Big and Tall Men's store and buy some
XXX-Large T-shirts. These usually all have pockets, and you have to be
careful in removing them. You know how easily knit materials unravel. The
shirts come in a variety of colours, and make excellent warm weather tunics
for wearing around a hot camp at Pennsic. OK, so they're not court garb,
but I've had some of mine for five or six years now, and they're very
comfortable, and hold up well. This is also a good idea for the new SCAdian 
who is looking for easy garb to do for that first event.

The XXX-Large shirts fit quite nice on a 5'6" frame, leaving a hem that
somes to about mid thigh, and sleeves that come nearly to the elbow. It's
also blousey enough to allow a long sleeved undertunic which could be a
regular sized, long sleeved t-shirt, with appropriate trim added. The hem
and sleeves of the outer tunic can be lengthened using the trim itself.

Authenticity Reminder!!! This is good garb for camping events, and I'm
not suggesting you wear it to Coronation. ;-) Fighters could find it very
comfortable under armour, however.

Hope someone finds this of value.

In service,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |      Forewarned is a Hindu god.
    Moritu by choice   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Splits 'n' Suedes LONG (was Expensive Armour)
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 15:40:21 GMT

Sorry, one correction to my original posting.  The author of
Ancient Skins, Parchments, and Leathers is R. Reed, NOT Reid
as originally posted.  Where's my head?

Cheers,
Balderik
From: mozart@coos.dartmouth.edu (Sting)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magic?
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:47:43 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In <1992Sep18.151328.18956@nstn.ns.ca> CS341A002@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki) writes:

>Well... Most SCA personas believe in magic. It's not really period though,
>because nobody's been able to come up with proof that it was practised...

Hmm.  I wonder, then, why it was that so many people were burned for 
witchcraft in these times?
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re:One Oh
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:22:43 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston

I'll sing you Eleven, oh
Green grow the rushes, oh!
What is your Eleven, oh?
Eleven for the Eleven wrong ways to act; and
Ten for the Annivers'ry
Nine for the Nine Exemplars; and
Eight for the noble motives
Seven for the Seven raised up on high; and
Six for the Six proud Servants
Five for the Symbol that's a chore; and
Four for the Picture Makers
Three, Three, the Pillars
Two, Two, the genders true
Clothed all in rules-o
One is the forum all alone
That's known as the Rialt-o!

(verse twelve tomorrow! Yes! It'll finally be over!)

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: canton@robinson.ilog.fr (Eric Canton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pentacles - "technical" question
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:02:02 GMT
Distribution: rec.org.sca
Organization: ILOG S.A., Gentilly, France


It may well not be the place to ask this, but ... I'll do it anyway :-)

Alison spoke of a group of pagans trying to disengage the pentacle from
its nasty associations with satanism by opposing the upward pentacle
to the downward (satanist) pentacle.

I have heard that upward pentacles symbolised the spirit, whereas downward
ones were evil.

Is this distinction :
 - real in christian/jewish/pagan symbolisms ?
 - real IN PERIOD in ... symbolisms ?

What's weird is that I saw a downward pentacle embedded in the ironwork
gate of one of the small chapels in the Sacre Coeur de Montmartre 
(very famous catholic church here in Paris, if anyone doesn't know).

Claude de Montcastel

Eric CANTON                   | Qui Deus a dune' escie"nce         Marie
SCA : Claude de Montcastel    | e de parler bone eloquence          de
Organization : ILOG (Paris)   | ne s'en deit taisir ne celer       France
e-mail       : canton@ilog.fr | ainz se deit voluntiers mustrer. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Jousting in Stockholm
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 19:32:46 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Balderik wrote:

> Also, I noticed that the 'tabards' (don't know the proper term) worn by
> the Swedish team's horses...

"Caparison".  Or, more generally, "furniture".

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: awbaben@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Marcel Kramer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: name from the netherlands???
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:39:39 GMT
Reply-To: awbaben@accucx.UUCP (Marcel Kramer)
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands

Greetings to those on the bridge from Gerulf,

Merfyn asked:
M>  In aiding a new member in my shire, I was asked to help her with a period
M> name to go with her persona.  I didn't think this a problem at the time,
M> with my name being easily found once I knew where to look.  Once again, I 
M> know not where to look for this rather interesting name which the young 
M> lady claims to have come from the netherlands.
M>  Any help at all with finding the name  "Severina Lundgren" in period   
M> would be appreciated.

Well, this name doesn't sound very dutch to me. And I'm a native speaker. :-)
I'll look for you anyhow but I'm not sure that I can help. Even if I'm a
native Dutch Herald (well... pursuivant :-)

Lindorm wrote:
L> "Lundgren" is a blatantly modern definitely out of period common Swedish
L> surname. I strongly doubt that it's a period Dutch name. I think
L> "Severinus" as a male latin name of a saint. "Severina" could be an
L> acceptable female equivalent.

Lindorm is much better informed about swedish names, but the first look at
the name made me think... Hmmm... Scandinavian? Glad I was right. :-)
I'm curious what sources the lady has used to claim a dutch origine.
Well, have to find my sources at home.

Yours in service,

    Gerulf
    Polderslot Pursuivant
    Drachenwald, East Kingdom

=========================================================================
=  M. Kramer, Dep. B & V, State University of Utrecht, The Netherlands  =
=  E-Mail: m.kramer@cc.ruu.nl | Phone: 31-30-533318 | Fax: 31-30-532837 =
=========================================================================
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: a "hair raising" question
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:21:51 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <BvEuqp.Eux@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>
>Your lady intends to go bareheaded?!
>
>Shocking!
>
>Aryk
	Your pardon, milord, but my lady only intended to go bareheaded as it
is the custom of the land to which we are both native.  Now having the 
knowledge of how a more civilized society conducts itself, we shall be certain
to conduct ourselves more correctly.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: u920065@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Dean Bailey)
Subject: I am new and need help
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:21:46 GMT

Hi 
		I am relatively new to the SCA and i am having some trouble
researching my persona.

Basically I want it to be very much like a king's forester.  

Is that historically accurate.

Does anyone know what books may be helpful.

Thanx

Devril
(The college of St Gildus the Wise.)
u920065@postoffice.utas.edu.au
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 18:20:46

 Pedro de Alcazar wrote 
 CL> their ways, something which seems to destroy the medieval flavour of
 CL> the SCA as much as this idea of _mandatory_ term limits for the landed
 CL> baroncy seems to be a bad idea to me. While I'm sure that there are
 CL> bad barons, and luckily we in Illiton have escaped from this fate {we

 I'd agree -- in Ansteorra, most of them get tired of the job within 3 - 5  years and step down.  There have been some remarkable long-term  Barons/Baronesses, however.  Her Excellancy Mistress Gwyneth of Ramsey Mere  was Baroness of Namron (Norman, OK) from its inception (10 years ago? -  before I got here, certainly, in '85) until last year.  She did have numerous  Barons, none of them her spouse, who reigned with her during that time.   Baron Jan z Holubice of Bjornsborg (Austin, TX) also had a long rei


gn, about  7 years?  And Duke Moonwulf Starkadderson, Baron Rivenstar (Lafeyette, IN)  has been ruling his group since before I joined in year 10.  These are some  of the examples I know of, surely there are more of exemplery (or at least  popular!) Barons and Baronesses whose populaces would have been appalled to  see them turned out after a couple of years.

 I'd also worry about the idea of having a regular deadline.  I can see the  ambitious coming out of retirement to work hard during the last 6 months  before the old couple step down, campaigning vigorously to become the new  rulers of the Barony.  The entire idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 CL> Removal would, as I see it, take the form of a petition of the
 CL> majority of the active members of the barony-the people who are always
 
 This has been done within the memory of those in the Barony of the Steppes,  to get a more active ruler.  It didn't work very well, and everyone was a bit  unhappy at the way the removal and installation happened I'm told.   Still, the group survived.


 CL> How to determine the most active members is a knotty problem.
 CL> Certainly, if the officers are of good repute, they are active
 CL> members. But I am still not sure how to determine what a non-officer
 CL> active member is, and how he or she is different from just some person
 CL> in a T-tunic.

  Active members are easily seen in most Baronies -- they're the ones putting  up the pavilions, running the tournies, cooking the feasts and cleaning the  site at the end of the event.  That's how we chose members for our baronial  service order -- if you haven't been seen doing those activities, you aren't  going to become a member of the Order of the Oak.  And that's where we go to  find our new barons and baronesses -- we look at those active, and in the  Order.

CL> In any case, I've always believed "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 Well said.  Thanks!

 -- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses
 

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: D020214@univscvm.csd.scarolina.EDU ("Lisa McDavid ", Cecily de Catton)
Subject: Interactive fiction?
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:01:26 GMT

A couple of days ago, someone suggested that the SCA could be described
as "interactive historical fiction."  Someone else, I believe Keradwc,
disagreed.  May I respectfully say that I think it was a reasonable
description?  We do meet the basic definition for historical fiction.
We try, with varying degrees of success, to recreate a particular time
period.  Since SCA personas are not allowed to be people who actually
lived, but are supposed to be someone who could have existed (no non-
human ancestory, at least for public consumption, for example), we
are like the imaginary characters in historical fiction.  Especially
when trying to stay in persona at events, we are interactive.

BTW, the phrase would make a good, if oversimplified, description of
the SCA to mundanes in areas like mine (central S.C.), where most
people don't understand us, but have heard of Civil War re-enactors.
I'm not trying to restart the are we re-enactors? thread.  I'm
just interested in explaining the SCA so that we don't get situations
like a recent one where the seneschal of a neighboring group got hate
messages from the Klan after a small town event.  (Actually, that was
unintentionally funny.  The man in question isn't easy to scare, and
one of their threats, on his answering machine, was "we'll kill your
wife."  What they didn't know was, he was in the midst of a highly
acrimonious divorce, and was more likely to give them directions to
her house and best time to call, than to be intimidated!) Of course,
the Klan ought to be authorities on dressing up in strange outfits and
doing weird things, but they're probably not smart enough to think of
it like that.
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: What is a household? (was Re: Feet Voting)
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:15:09 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Arval Benicoeur writes:
> However, I would definitely include
> a knight, his squires, his lady, her apprentices (or whatever), and their
> children in my definition of a household: It is Sir Peter and Mistress
> Anne's household.  

And his former squires with their current squires, and her former apprentices
with their current apprentices and of course everybody's spouse/sweetheart,
and the children... ;-)  Yup!  You can get a real big household this way.

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
A bad day in the list still beats a good day in the office.  -- Dagonell
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Re:One Oh
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 23:49:38 GMT

I'll sing you Nine, oh
Green grow the rushes, oh!
What is your Nine, oh?
Nine for the Nine Exemplars; and
Eight for the noble motives
Seven for the Seven raised up on high; and
Six for the Six proud Servants
Five for the Symbol that's a chore; and
Four for the Picture Makers
Three, Three, the Pillars
Two, Two, the genders true
Clothed all in rules-o
One is the forum all alone
That's known as the Rialt-o!

(All I have to do is nail ten and I can die happy :)
(verse ten on Monday)

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit.
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:30:49 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Robert of Ferness (Ken Stuart) writes:

>Real linen is rather expensive, but 'linen look'
>cloth, which is available in many fabric stores, can be used instead. 
>The 'linen look' material is much cheaper, and is usually a linen/cotten
>blend; I've always found that it wrinkles far less than cotten, too,
>though it costs more than cotten broadcloth.

100% linen wrinkles even more than cotton.  So do most cotton/
linen blends, although some wrinkle more than others.  "Linen
look" materials are usually polyester/rayon blends, which do
indeed wrinkle less than cotton.  Cotton/linen blends and linen-
look materials are easy to confuse, since they both fall within
the same price range, while 100% linen tends to be about twice
as much.  Occassionally you may find other materials with a "linen
look" also.  I've found several bolts of 100% cotton woven to look
like linen at a local outlet.

-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Subject: Re: infant wear (was Re: Historical Survey Question)
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:12:06 GMT

In article <07hzpw#@rpi.edu> habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes:
>Bertram, if you can dig up a piece of coral jewelry (especially a necklace),
>put that on her too. I've seen several 15th and 16th century paintings of
>infants wearing coral; I used to know why, but have forgotten.
>
>Alison MacDermot
>*Ex Ungue Leonem*
>

Protection from witches, as well as very soothing to teethe upon.
You can still sometimes find coral handled rattles in antique shops.

Enid Wrigglewsorth

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:50:50 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings all, but especially Angus MacIntosh, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

Recently, Angus wrote:

>Having said that, I will now place myself firmly in the camp that says,
>"Different strokes for different folks."  Some baronies would no doubt
>prefer their leadership to have the benefit and aura of long experience.
>Some would no doubt prefer that they don't have to get out the knives to
>get rid of their leadership when they are tired of them.  I say let the
>baronies decide for themselves.  Consequently, make no law on the matter!

I agree that the term limits idea is really a (poor) attempt to finesse
the question of how to tell when there's trouble.  The difficulties with
what you say are twofold: (1) at present, in most kingdoms, there's no
way for the baronies to decide; providing such a way will take a law; and
(2) having been, repeatedly, in a barony in trouble, I'm not sure that
talking with someone on the outside who can see past some of the local
factionalization is all that bad a thing.

Cheers,

-- Angharad/Terry
From: greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Consultants needed
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:09:16 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Tadhg writes,

>Put me down for the following --
 ^^^^^^^^^^^
> C> Mediaeval
> C>    Heraldry
> C>    Names (by language?)
> C>    Feudalism
> C>    Cultures/Religions

Pray tell, of what medieval, heraldic, onomastic, feudal, cultural and
religious offenses are you guilty, my friend?  The mind boggles...

Perhaps you should come down off that obelisk, O Tadhg Stylites.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg")
Subject: name from the netherlands???
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:36:12 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie!


Lindorm Eriksson writes:

>On the contrary, don't beleive us unless we can prove that we're right or
>at least quote scholarly sources. Even if we do live in Sweden and read
>Swedish history, most Swedes have no formal training in the history of the
>Swedish language and will mistake an invented name or an out of period name
>for a period one.

Okay, I will rephrase my previous statement:

Believe me. I KNOW. I do not think that I need to quote any university
degrees, nor can I see the necessity in this forum to quote other
people's degrees or research. I am not making any assertions on behalf
of Lord Lindorm, or on the behalf of "most Swedes". I am not claiming
that my postings on this net are perfect examples of research and
scientific documentation. I am (and was) simply stating what I know,
and making an appeal to my own credibility. Believe me. If you don't,
then I suggest you go and do the research because I'm sorry but I
don't have the time.

Lindorm, you can be such a bore sometimes.

William, bored
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: English summer
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 06:23:37 GMT

I don't see what all this fuss is about. Velvet for cold, silk for heat,
make sure its loud, dagged and a different colour to your hose (preferably
_two_ different colours to your hose)

Change clothes as required to: a) regulate temperature
                               b) remain fashionable
No problem.

(well, I suppose wool and linen or cotton would do in a pinch)

Tongue firmly in cheek,

Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: the component of fiction
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 18:16:23 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  Discussing the suggestion to describe the SCA as
"interactive historical fiction," Aryk wrote:

> The term "re-creation" has been applied to the SCA not because it is an
> apt term, but to distinguish the SCA from re-enactment... The name
> "Society for Creative Anachronism" is in many ways an albatross, but when
> it comes to thinking of a broad description of what the SCA actually
> does, it is quite apt -- an environment is created which is both
> internally and externally anachronistic. ...the SCA might take advantage
> of the utility of the term "creative anachronism", and accept it as a
> description of what the Society does. 

You have a good point, Aryk, but I think you overlook one important
problem: The purpose of a slogan is to explain what we are doing.  My
objection to "interactive historical fiction" is the same as your objection
to "historical re-creation"; both are understood by the general public in
ways that do not fit most of the SCA's activities.  The problem with
"creative anachronism" is exactly the opposite: It is not understood by the
public at all, and so will not explain anything.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: infant wear (was Re: Historical Survey Question)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:54:51 GMT

Bertram, if you can dig up a piece of coral jewelry (especially a necklace),
put that on her too. I've seen several 15th and 16th century paintings of
infants wearing coral; I used to know why, but have forgotten.

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*