HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:36:50 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: The Gospel

Excuse me, Mr. Carnes.

But, Are you trying to say that the RCC says that Jesus and Works have the
same value before God ?

Are you trying to say that we deny the scripture, where it says that we
are saved by Faith, not works ?

Excuse me again, you are WRONG.

It is true that we affirm that you need works, but when and only when they
are expresion of a faith, a big one in the most deep of your heart.

Paul says (I Cor 13) that if you have faith but not love, your faith is
senseless, useless.

James says that a Faith without works is dead, a dead faith can't save.

There are 4 posibilities here:

No Faith, No Works:  You are in deep trouble.

Fath but not Works:  You are a noisy drum  (I Cor 13  again).

No Faith, but Works: You might be trying to buy salvation (like a pharisee) but
                     salvation is a gift, you can't buy it, you just can
                     receive it if God wants to give it to you.

Faith and Works:     In addition to be a christian, you are a very kind person.


You have to believe in your heart (Faith) and preach with your tongue (Works)
that Jesus is the Lord to be saved.


Shalom,
Memo.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 20:34:40 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: God's will

Quite obviously, G-d has willed the election of Bill Clinton, rather than
questioning His wisdom by casting slings and arrows at the President, we should
 be pleased and wish the new President well.  Who are we to question the will
 of God, just because Rev Pat Robertson or Rev Jerry Falwell say something
does not mean it's correct.
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:30:41 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jesus and the Holy Spirit
              "JHART@UMASSD.BITNET" at Nov 5, 92 12:39 pm

>
>Hi everyone;
>  I have a question which I think might be of some interest.  In the
>Gospels, it is stated that when John the Baptist baptized Jesus the Holy
>Spirit descended on him in the form of a dove (Luke 3:21-22).  In Luke
>4:1 it says "Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit,...."
>  The question is: Does this mean Jesus, the second person of the Trintiy,
>did not have the Holy Spirit prior to His baptism?
>
>     In Christ
>     John Hart
>

Jesus as a human being needed to be guided by the Holy Spirit who was
without the limmitations that Jesus imposed on himself..
Jesus recieved the Holy Spirit at his baptism in much the same way that the
people in the Upper Room (Acts 6 I think) received the Spirit - an empowering
for service.

Jesus as the perfect showed the imperfect (us) how to live, by reliance
on the Holy Spirit...


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:56:58 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Clinton's Plans, Already
              10 Nov 1992 00:48:24 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:48:24 GMT (G.J. McCaughan) said:
>
>All very horrible, and quite likely you're right about the purpose of the
>gag rule. But you haven't answered the other things I said; does the gag
>rule also prevent anti-abortionists offering counselling? If so, it's not
>at all clear to me that it's a good thing, despite the horror stories you
>posted.

I'm pretty sure it did not. I have no "proof" as it were, but the gag
rule is in effect now and  my Linda at the CPC is allowed to council any
whay and does NOT have to mention abortion.

It eliminated abortion centers from counseling abortions. ONLY THE DOCTORS
are allowed to do that at this time.

I just asked Linda and she knew! I knew there was a reason I married her!
And all this time I told her it was to hand me quarters at the toll booths!

Now, if I can just convince her to keep me. :-)

Maks.
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:52:11 CST
From:         "(Carol Slingo)" <slingo@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brenda's group--my group
              Curry-White" at Nov 6, 92 8:25 am

Glad things are going well, Brenda.  My little choir group met at the
nursing home Tuesday despite the fact that our "leaders" were election
judging and absent and no further volunteers could be found.  There were 5
adults and 4 kids and all went very well (oh yes, the guy who usually
"preaches" in the absence of a priest had a very bad throat but he did very
well too!).  I think it was the best service we've had since I joined the
group.

So glad I got into it.

In Christ,

Carol
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:16:25 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Fetal Research & Abortion

    700 Club already reports that Clinton is already taking steps to
remove much of the Pro-Life things that Bush put into place. He's getting
things into gear to pass the Freedom of Choice Act and to promote Fetal
Tissue Research as soon as he is in.

    The Virginia Right to Life Newsletter had this to say.

    FETAL RESEARCH AND ABORTION

    The Medical College of Virginia in Richmond (MAKS> about 4 blocks
from where I work :-( ) received a $1 million grant to study how fetal
tissue repairs itself. The Washington Times commented on the
announcement: "But the practicality of fetal tissue research isn't the
reason using voluntary aborted fetuses ought to be against the law. It is
a profound moral abomination that treats a human being as chattel, as a
means to and end." One physician characterized it as "opening a Pandora's
box... I foresee growing fetuses someday for spare parts."

    Contrary to public denials there is a steady and growing more obvious
connection between fetal research and abortion. We know that women who
have asked to be artificially inseminated with the intention of aborting
the pre-born child and transplanting the tissue to a specific human
being. The National Abortion Rights Action League lobbies to overturn the
federal moratorium on fetal tissue research. Abortion proponents like
Senator Ted Kennedy and lawyer Laurence Tribe have publicly made the
connection. The Freedom of Choice Act would encourage fetal tissue
transplants because the proposed law would outlaw any restrictions on
abortions. The $500 million dollar a year abortion industry is virtually
impossible to supervise adequately. We may expect more fetal tissue
research.

Maks
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:18:40 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              10 Nov 1992 13:12:00 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

Firstly, you broke the Law of Contradiction by saying that Lazarus could
come forth from the grave, it was merely impossible for him to do so.
Impossibility precludes ANY possibility of comming forth ... look at your
wording.

Now, to quote Jesus, "I will answer your question, but first you must answer
one for me."  You must first PROVE in context of biblical definition that the
human will, catagorically, is Necessarily "free."
Actually I have shown you from Romans 3, Romans 6, Romans 8, also John 1,
2 Tim 1, and Ephes. 2 that the human will is passive in REGENERATION, which
is prior to a person being ABLE to come to Christ, necessarily because, as
Paul states, DEAD men are DEAD and it is Christ who raises them to life when
they were YET DEAD  (SEE EPH 2:1-10).


Jesse
From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: God/Allah
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:37:15 GMT
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University

In article <12NOV92.09813474.0024.MUSIC@DCCCDBIT> Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET> writes:

>I thought that Allah was the God in the Koran. So is Allah the God of
>Abraham, Issac and Jacob or is Allah the God of Abraham, Ishmael, and
>Mohammad?
>
Yvette:

In Genesis 3 God gives himself a name, which is transliterated into "
Jehovah" in English translations.  The word "Allah" is not the Name of God, 
it is just the Arabic word for God.  When the Old Testament uses the Name of 
God, it is usually translated "Jehovah."  When it uses the word God, it most 
often is "God."  In the Arabic translations, the word God is "Allah."

Your question is difficult to answer, since it seems to be using the word
"Allah" as the name of God.  If I were speaking in Arabic, "Allah" would be 
the word I would use for God, or god.

The question might well be put, "Do Christians, Jews, and Moslems all 
worship the Allah (or God) of Abraham?"  They all claim to.

--
Bill Chapman, Box 1262, Mississippi State, MS  39762
<BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>           (601) 325-2042
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X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:19:18 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      thanks Brian! :)

I'll contact him ASAP....this will give me a look into my particular
denomination's history.  I reckon that is good to know, right???
God Bless you!

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:46:18 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      comment on military

Zane...

I think I remember my son saying he went to church during his
basic training to avoid work, as did others.  But at the
graduation, the 'instructors' mad it sound like the men went
to church because of their newly found 'faith'.  I find this
a little ironic and hypocritical.

I, too, do not see anything Christian, or any other religion,
in the military.  The particular branch of service is their
religion.

Unfortunately my son is not Christian.  He probably would say
he is, and I can't really judge, but if he is, I don't know
how anyone would know it.  I depend on the Word....teach a child
in the way he should go and he will return to it...I call on the
Lord to keep His promises, and I know He will.  So I believe that
my son will one day hear the Lord speaking to him and answer, 'Here
am I.'

Thanks for your words of encouragement.  May the Lord continue to
bless your ministry to us on Christia and wherever He leads you.

Carol Nemec
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: silence not = condone
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:53:27 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Yvette,

    Hi, you ask <Now could someone tell me what aggregis mean?>.  It looks
to me like a variation of <egregious>.
    In Psalm 2 it suggests that we should ask the Son to kiss us.  We can't
talk and kiss at the same time too well.  Maybe a little mumbling...
Let's here it for silence.  Like a silent Lamb....  When we are silent the
very rocks will cry out.
                                quietly in Christ, zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:44:41 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Point to Eric.
              11 Nov 1992 11:56:44 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

But my man, is your idea that God's relationship to us is analogous to a
parent and child ACTUALLY Biblical ... as you state it?


Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:42:37 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              13 Nov 1992 14:03:38 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Gareth ;

YES, Rome has a large load of unscriptural doctrines that they tend to keep
esoteric from the masses, both human and liturgical.

I want people to LOOK into these things SERIOUSLY.

Lastly, you may indeed disagree with me on the bulk of what I espouse, but
could you lighten up a bit?  As God is my witness, I am here to propogate
Truth, not win polemical "chess matches" ... with the goal of having ME
as the proverbial "last man standing."

If you have a genuine and definable "beef" with me, just E-mail me your
case.


Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:56:04 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?

Dear Molly Archibold ;

"Ability" is not necessarily concomitant to "Responsibility."
Just because God commands us to obey, does not necessarily mean that He made
us ABLE to do so.  If we are theoretically ABLE to obey God as HE commands us
to do so -- and that is PERFECTLY, you know -- then WHY did He send Christ to
live a perfect life and be a sin substitute?
If we have got "what it takes", then WHY Christ?

Jesse Carnes
From: GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL (DRCV06::GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Psalm 139 and abortion.
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:01:00 GMT
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Psalm 139 does not have anything to do with abortion, in my opinion.  The
declaration is made that we are knows in the womb, that we were formed
there, and that our days are known.  Do you think that man can thwart God's
will.  If God wills that a baby be born, it cannot be aborted, simply
cannot be.

I am personally not in favor of most abortions, but this chapter of the
Bible is not at all dealing with this issue.  Psalm 139 speaks eloquently
of the sovereignty of God.  No abortion can interfere with that
sovereignty.  That is why I believe abortion should not be an issue for
Christians to become involved with.  Leave it to the world, God will judge
them.

Dan Graham
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X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:35:01 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Where will it end, guys???

Ok, so I'm not exactly sure who this bozo is that Maks is saying
has tried to term the BOOK 'x-rated', but I'd sure like to find out.
Ok, so here's the way I see this.  If any of you are my age, and want
to raise a family, if this does come about, PLEASE ....for your future
family's sake, put away a copy of God's Precious Word NOW...
I think I have one at my parents' house, and I've got one here at School.
IF I have to resort to literally "hiding" God's word, so that my friends,
and later Children can be brought up in the nurture and admonition of the
one who Saves and Heals, then so be it.
Why can't we find out who this Atheist is, and all post to him to tell him
we're "praying for him anyway"?????
He'd be rather shocked, don't you think?
"G"
PS.  My Pastor told the congregation yesterday morning, that if we've
never been serious about praying, and really reaching the Throne, then
NOW's the time to get that way.  I'm calling the Prayer Warriors of this
list to action.  I'll do the same, guys.... really.
The nation needs it.   Didn't HE say somewhere in Psalms or Proverbs that
"I'll turn all nations into HELL that forget me." ????
Whew!!!.... please gang.  Let's pull a "CARMAN", and "GET ADDICTED TO
JESUS" ...so all our friends will too.
God Bless you all!

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
From: NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:46:23 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              11 Nov 1992 19:51:05 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:51:05 -0700 (MARK DRAKE) said:

>> Eric ;
>
>> First, you need to stop ... fora moment ... and DEFINE "free will" within
>> the scope of the Scriptures.  Does it state that man has a "free will"?
>> Does it define it and say that Christians HAVE it as well?
>
>
>> Jesse Carnes
>
>
> Good question.
>
> This brought up another question I have.
>
> Jesse seems to me to be a proponent of the reformed position.  Yet RC Sproul,
> a reformed theologian, claims that both Calvin and Johnathan Edwards believed
> in free will (as does he himself).
>
> My question, Jesse, is: Does your belief actually fit into reformed theology?
>
> Mark

Mark, what is the definition of Calvin's and Edwards' "free will"? Before you
misstate their position, check out Edwards and his treatise on Free Will. I
used to offer my 11th graders an automatic A if they could refute his position.
(no longer teaching)
You will find both Calvin and Edwards to be firm believers in man's total
inability/depravity and lack of what we now are calling "free will" which is
different from what they teach about man's will being free within its bounds.
The bounds are made up of the sin nature or total depravity of man.

Tom Brewer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:35:39 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The Gospel

Dear Memo ;

What you were saying sounds good, ostensibly ... but, it is not the OFFICIAL
teaching of Rome.
The Gospel of the Roman Catholic church is one of "Jesus PLUS ... works --
either personal or ecclesiastical sorts."

Half of my church used to be Catholic, and they can tell you, especially the
pastor that what Rome OFFICIALLY teaches and what you oft hear in your perish
church are diferent ... and for GOOD reason.

Read OFFICIAL publications by the Jesuits, who are the "Praetorian Guard" of
the Catholic church.  These hard ball publications spell things a bit
differently ... and read "De Fide" by Ott for more OFFICIAL doctrine.
Compare also, the Council of Trent's canons with your local perish church's
normal Sunday homily fare or catachism.


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Christians in the military
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:27:42 GMT


   A friend from my Bible study group served in the U.S. Army in Korea
a few years ago.  He said there are many Christians there.  He also
said there were also many of the Protestant/Fundamentalist-Catholic
debates (like the ones that go in in Christia).

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:27:35 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      ? Lost connection of quiet group ?

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Summary: request for response
Keywords: connection test

It's been a number of days since anything has shown up in this
newsgroup/listserver at our site.  Please drop me an e-mail note if you see
this --- if the group is now moderated, I hope the moderator short-stops
this request and responds.

If the group has been active, I guess I'll have to check with our system
administration on its failure to make it to our site.
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Whose will is dominant?
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:06:14 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              12 Nov 1992 09:46:44 CST from <sweberg@GARFIELD.WES.ARMY.MIL>

Dear Scott ;

If humans truly have WHAT IT TAKES to believe on Christ, then why do not all
CHOOSE to believe, unless you think that some people have MORE than others?

Further, if Faith is a gift of God (see Eph 2), then, why do not all men have
this gift, as Paul states that "... not all men HAVE FAITH"?


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:32:25 DNT
From:         "(Claus Tondering)" <ct@DDE.DK>
Subject:      Re: God/Allah...
              9, 92 8:48 am

Theresa Blackwell writes:
> Isn't "Allah" the Islamic word for "GOD"???

Not quite. Allah is the Arabic, not the Islamic, word for God.
When the Bible is translated into Arabic, God is translated "Allah".

Allah is a contraction of Al-Illah (or something like that) which
literally means "The God".

Yours in Christ,

Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:46:07 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: comment on military

Excerpts from christia: 10-Nov-92 comment on military carol
nemec@FERRIS.BITNE (526)

> Our son has been in the Navy almost 2 years now.  We went to his boot
> camp graduation.  Interesting fact...most of the men in boot camp
> attended church.  I don't remember if they had the choice or not.  I
> can't argue with the navy making it acceptable, but many of them had
> probably never be in church before boot camp.  I wonder how many
> continue to attend after. The navy obviously valued some religious
> experience, I wonder why?  Seems somewhat hypocritcal or something.

From someone who attended Field Training (like boot camp, but for
officers), let me assure you that the men have ulterior motives for
attending church.

After a week of being yelled at, humiliated, abused, overworked,
embarrassed, marched around, and everything else that happens to them,
they could use the refuge of an hour at church.  Indeed, what do you
suppose happens if you _don't_ go to church?  Where I went to training,
no one was forced to go to church, but if anyone didn't, they had to
spend the hour doing chores.  About the only place in the whole camp
where you can let down your military bearing is in church.

Only the most die-hard non-Christian would rather do an hour's worth of
chores than go to church!  Boot camp is pure Hell, and trainees would go
virtually anywhere to get relief from it.

Eric
From: MKLINE@VDH.BITNET (Michael A. Kline)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: fasting
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:19:25 GMT
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
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              5 Nov 1992 13:51:52 CST from <U59919@UICVM.UIC.EDU>

Small correction. My 14 year old daughter who decided to fast and did
make it, was Rachel. Linda is my wife.

She fasted from 12:00 noon the following day to 12:05 the next. I also
fasted from 10:00 the first evening till about 10:15 the following
evening. Rachel asked me at work how I was doing and I said, "Have
not ate anything and we had donuts today. You know how hard that is
for your dear old dad." "Don't forget, you've got to pray as well."

Amazing how children grasp these things.

Maks.
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