HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 11:49:10 MST
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
From: luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke)

In article <MS-C.724452715.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>Approximately 120 members of the Texas Southern University marching band
>engaged in an act of mass shoplifting in the Akihabara shopping district on
>December 7.  They were accompanied in this charming activity by six school
>officials, including the university's vice president.

IMO, a sad commentary of the moral state of the average American these days.

I may get flamed for that comment, but it is the first thing that came
to mind.  Of course, I don't really believe that this incident necessarily
says anything at all about the "average American."  There have been large
groups of American students visit Japan (and other places) in the past
without doing stupid things like this, but unfortunately the bad things 
get the press and are very influential in forming images of and attitudes
about groups of people.

Unfortunately, the Japanese are no different in this respect, and are
likely to jump to the same conclusion that I did in my first sentence,
perhaps without thinking further.  Doubtless some will call this "racism",
but I think it's just a common tendency to categorize and stereotype.
It IS unfortunate in that incidents like this give all "gaijin" a
bad name.  The last thing we gaijin need is real-life incidents to
confirm the faulty images the Japanese get from TV and American movies...
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  David Luke                      "There's nothing worse than a brilliant     |
|  luke@wombat.ee.byu.edu           image of a fuzzy concept."                 |
|                                                               -- Ansel Adams |
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:50:54 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash.berkeley.edu

Well, next time i go to tokio the usual share of stares of distrust will
be even higher....ha, the shopkeepers deserve it that steal from the public
with their profit margins....now they have a taste of everyday life in 
America....I've had my bike stolen 3 times, parts stolen 4 more times,
mugged once, had 2 jackets stolen, conned out of $80, had a friend get
shot to death 2 blocks from my apt, get ripped off of rent, get ripped off
of education with the school's illustrious 1-professor staff (who doesn't
teach undergraduates), but deal with overworked and unhappy temporary
lecturers....25th day of a graduate student strike that has kept campus at
a standstill....so, they better expect some side effects if they're going
to continue cultural exchanges with America.
From: azegami@flab.fujitsu.co.jp (Azegami Kengo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Chotto!!!Sexuality?
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:09:41 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd., Atsugi, Japan.

In article <1goga3INN4f7@agate.berkeley.edu> jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu) writes:

   2.  You shouldn't base it on time, but rather...critical capital 
   investment...and each gal varies.  Anyone have an average?  I'd guess in
   the Y200,000 range.  Just remember, girls around the world are basically
   the same, they like flowers, wining, dining, dancing, grand gestures
   like new shoes, wallets, etc.  If you jump through the hoops right, a 
   relationship can take off...  I recommend the book "1001 ways to be 
   Romantic" I can't remember the author.  Only, IMHO, forget the 
   recommendations about lingerie..8-)

Yeeah, absolutely correct. And about this average, I'm not sure, but
what I really experienced is that all girls love these fancy flowers
and so one. But, in case you want to fish around in Japan, it is
better to use cars ( especially like BMW, Porsche or any other
sports cars.) as your bait. Some cuties chase around the guys with nice
cars (^o^). This might work all over Japan. And for more of your
convenience..if you go to the country-side, sweeties around there love
guys with their hairs dyed red (people call them ``YANKEE'', I don't
know whether this has anything to do with the original meaning of the
same word) driving around cars like TOYOTA Crown and so forth with BIG
rear spoilers ..(^o^) These might cost you like $20000 !!
                                                ^^^^^^
--
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   You can't get 'any till    | Tel:(0462)48-3111 (4511) /  Fax:(0462)49-6695
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                              | NIFTY : HHA00133
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:47:36 GMT

hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>My reaction to this incident is ---
>why all this overreaction? (on the US journalism, Japanese journalism,
>and on the net...)

I'm glad someone else feels this way, too.   After seeing Crispin-san's
initial news post, I was completely "flabbergasted" (to use another netter's
word).  The only "explanations" I was able to come up for such behavior
were silly ones, which prompted me to compile the dumb "Top 10" list.
The list may have been in bad taste (or just unfunny) in any case, but 
needless to say, as more and more serious posts continued, my face
got redder and redder!  So, I thank Hiraga-san: doumo doumo :-)  _o_

"Amerika" occupies a very large part of average Japanese life. Some images
of the US are contradictory.  Just watching the news boadcast from Japan
shows that along side the TSU band is the images of heroic and compassionate 
Marines clearing the way in Somalia.  I don't think one needs to worry too 
much about this _one_ incidence.

cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond) writes:
>>I am embarrassed for my fellow man and wish to convey to Japan and to the
>>Japanese people the apology of at least one American resident. It is a sad
>>comment on the quality of the education and the upbringing of these students,
>>that they behaved the way that they did.
>
>Admitting all sincerety in Mr. Richmond's remarks, I don't see why
>he has to give any apologies.  I find this rather interesting because
>it seems more to fit a Japanese kind of mentality (yes, I'm stereotyping).

It could be an indication of deep understanding of Japanese culture on
Richmond-san's part.  After all, the paragraph _is_ addressed toward
"Japan and to the Japanese people". :-)

>And why this single incident lead to gross generalization and dispute,
>I simply don't understand.

Again, doumo doumo for not understanding.

>FYI:
>Shoplifting in Japan, unfortunately, is not at all uncommon.
>And mob psychology, just as in this case, commonly provokes such action as 
>well.

I agree that "manbiki" is not uncommon in Japan, but I have never heard
of _mass_ shoplifting incidence.  IMO, "manbiki" by nature is a "clandestine" 
act whereas "mass" tend to be visible.  A Jp news program called it a 
"shuudan manbiki".  Is this a new word?

Yoichi Ii
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:27:41 GMT

I am embarrassed for my fellow man and wish to convey to Japan and to the
Japanese people the apology of at least one American resident. It is a sad
comment on the quality of the education and the upbringing of these students,
that they behaved the way that they did.

Charlie

P.S. I peeked out from under my "kill file" , but I did not notice any comment
by our resident racist on this incident... Did I miss it?

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S   T O   J A P A N ?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:47:17 GMT

In article <SMITTIE.92Dec10111151@tui.csulb.edu> smittie@csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>>You're in more of the know than I am...so I guess the average
>>intellect of boneheads in Japan is higher than that in the US.
>>Comforting to know. :-) Competing against dumber boneheads in
>>America is easier...I guess this is why America is the land o'
>>Opportunity! 8-)
> 
>>However, I never doubted that the test scores were indicative that
>>average boneheads in the far east nations are better educated than
>>average boneheads in America, however, I have always had the
>>impression that all far east countries exaggerate good test score
>>for their kids... I guess I've been criminally prejudicial.  Gomen. 
>
>Couple of points here. I think that those on the bottom of the academic heap in
>both countries are about even. However, Japan offers greater opportunities for
>those who, for whatever reason, do not want to go to college. Technical high
>schools, business high schools, etc all offer the individual who either cannot
>or does not want to go to college opportunities that make that individual ready
>for the work force. This does several things. It allows the individual to
>maintain his/her dignity since there specialized high schools are well accepted
>in society. Furthermore, it allows or even encourages the individual to become
>a contributing member of society.

As for encouraging people to become "a contributing member of society", they
don't have much choice, given the Japanese social infrastructure (whether that's
good or bad is a different argument). As for the "not wanting to go to college",
the case seems to be that those who enter 'senmongakkou' cannot get into 
college. These senmongakkou are usually expensive, and the quality of their
education varies widely. Given the 'downturn' in the Japanese economy, it
remains to be seen how well accepted graduates of these schools will be by 
big business. These graduates USUALLY end up at the mid-to-smaller size 
companies, where the famed benefits of 'life-long employment', etc, are not
so rigidly adhered to.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - Oh come on! You didn't think I was serious, did you?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi>
Subject: Re: 50 YEARS AGO TODAY: December 7, 1942 - a retrospective
Organization: Turku School of Economics
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:18:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.095843.24578@Csli.Stanford.EDU> Yuzuru Hiraga,
hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Just curious -- when was the term "World War II" first coined?
>For that matter, how about "World War I"?
>
># I recall it was initially called something like "the great war"...
>
>-YH

The 2nd world wars:

1	Soviet-German occupation of Poland and war against France and Great
Britain
	1st/3rd September, 1939.....European War?
	
2	26th October Russian started bombing against Finnis cities in order to
	start occupying Finland. In Soviet history:"Finnish war 1939-40" or
	not war at all - some military actions of Leningrad military district
	to help "People's Government of Finland".
		
3	German occupies Yugoslavia 1941 - not world war yet, Greece fighting
against
	Italo-German troops - not WW yet?
	
4	22th June, 1941 Hitler's attack to the USSR - Barbarossa - not WW2 yet?

5	7th December, 1941 Pearl Habour? - already WW2 from the American point
of
	view?
	
6	German surrending 7th/9th May, 1945 - WW2 stops or can Amer-Japanese
war be
	called as WW?
	
	
	-olli-
From: thomas@aic.co.jp (Thomas Johannsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: New Alien Registartion from Jan. 8th
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:49:08 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: AIC Systems Lab., Sendai, Japan

I don't know if anybody cares. Anyway, here goes what I found in
today's newspaper:

"New Alien Registration System starting from january 8, 1993.

From January 8, 1993 (Friday), a new alien registration system will
begin. The main points of change are as follows:

New requirements of the photographs
 Two copies of a photograph of yourself, of which the photographs
 must have been taken within the last 6 months; and the size of the
 photograph should be 45mm x 35mm.
New Certificate of Alien Registration for those who are 16 years of
 age or over will be changed to a smaller plastic-type card that is 
 easier to carry. The old certificate will continue to be valid until
 its expiration.
Permanent residents and special permanent residents will no longer be
 required to be fingerprinted at the time of their application for 
 registration. Instead, these residents will be required to register
 their signatures and the information of their family members.

For further information, please contact the nearest immigration office
to you or the office of your city, ward, town or village.

                                 (Ministry of Justice)"

Well, apparently nothing changes for those who have their gaijin cards
for some time.
 
Thomas

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.india,soc.culture.asian.american
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Sexuality of Japanese Girls
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:03:23 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


=> In article <92345.074240RSAYLC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> Larry E. Cravetz,
=> RSAYLC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com writes:
=> >That's odd, I always thought that people of the female gender were WOMEN
=> at
=> >those ages, not GIRLS. How silly of me.

In article <1992Dec14.172810.530@ils.nwu.edu>, white@ils.nwu.edu 
(John C. White) writes:
=> 
=> If you insist on thinking, can't you at least have some original
=> thoughts? This kind of language policing has already been done by others!

So has language policing the language police. Next is policing the
language of those who language police the language police... like
me. 

You can't win you know. Complaining about complaining draws it own
complaint. Ad nauseum.

Let's return to SEX, and not defintions of female, and whether it's
better to have one definition or not.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: maierj@edmund.cs.andrews.edu (Joey Maier)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: Andrews University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:35:27 GMT

	I saw the big argument about the racsism  of the Japanese
cultuer towards Americans who have been in Japan for thirty years and not
learned Japanese. It is a fact from history that Japan has been isolated
as a island and they did not have a chance to or did not open their
country till recently, therefor Japan might have become a major econamic
power, but japanese people have not changed as quick. I think its fact
that Japaenes are more closed minded from european people, However we know
this and we are trying to change this.

	If Americans want less racism, remember: In Rome, act like Romans.
If you do this they act nicer with you.  Same with us, if  you act
comfortable with japanese then once they have become good friend, they
will have stronger relationship then european people.

Yoshia Shimizu   I am using my friend computer.
From: lindaa@omen.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Are there any punk bands in Japan?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 02:36:33 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: omen.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec10.133210.1005@gssec.bt.co.uk> apeedle@gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Peedle) writes:
>There's a Japanese band who are currently really hip in the UK called Shonen
>Knife. They are a 3 girl group who look kind of cute, dress in really colourful
>outfits and play loud Ramones-style punk music.
>
>They've been receiving a fair amount of airplay on national radio and had a
>couple of slots on TV. I guess they're current popularity stems for them being
>something of a novelty at the moment, so chances are maybe they wont be so hip
>in a year or so's time. Still, they're worth checking out.

I saw Shonen Knife approx. a year ago at the I-Beam in SF; at that time
(and probably still) the darlings of the alternative rock scene (Red Kross,
Sonic Youth have done covers of their songs).  They were SO bad, the bass
guitarist and drummer couldn't even keep a coherent back beat.  I pretty
much rate them with Fuzz Box (remember them?).

-- 
   $  Linda Absher		$ "Jane! Get me off of this               $ 
   $  lindaa@info.Berkeley.EDU	$      crazy thing!!!"                    $
   $				$    -George Jetson, "The Jetsons"        $
From: stephend@ai.mit.edu (Stephen Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Looking for book about a Sony intern
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:25:11
Organization: MIT
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: totoro.ai.mit.edu

I am trying to find the title of a book about a guy who went to work
at Sony as an intern.  Apparently he felt that he was not being given
work up to his level of experience, and complained to the president.
This resulted in his being fired.

The book was mentioned to me as a source of information about things that
you can do wrong when working in Japan.

Stephen
stephend@ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.asian.america,soc.culture.usa,misc.education
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:52:51 GMT

In article <1gm00iINNif5@agate.berkeley.edu> jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.164500.2832@island.COM> fester@island.COM 
>(Mike Fester) writes:
>
>  >I can't really believe you're saying this; if someone were to say 'You can't
>  >imagine how much it hurts to hear these Chinese trying to speak English, yet
>  >butchering it with their horrible accents', I have a feeling you'd be all
>  >over them....
>
>No, I equally rip on orientals massacring English.  I'm all over the
>guys in our lab, just ask 'em B-).  One Taiwanese dude irritates the
>hell out of me especially when he's on the phone.  But hey, I'm chill...
>yeah...like I can keep cool about it.  I don't own any guns...(lucky for
>them...8-))

Pity. I don't normally see any point in ripping any foreigner for non-mastery 
of any language.

>  >          And I and my former roommates have heard Chinese coming from non-
>  >Asians that seemed to be indistinguishable from native speech. And even if
>  >it were not the case, nobody seems to care if (eg) some foriegn European 
>  >speaks English with a bad accent, so long as the language is generally unders
>
>What do you mean by "indistinguishable?  I can usually tell by accent
>over the phone which area of China somebody came from or whether the 
>person is non-native.  With Japanese, I'm not very good yet, but I've
>on occasion differentiated Sendai, Tokyo, Kyoto, and Hakata accents.

By "indistinguishable", I mean that there is nothing to distinguish them from 
those born and raised in China. Most likely, that would mean a Beijing accent,
as that is what most US universities teach.

>>My data point: I can pass on the phone as Japanese at all the companies I 
>>worked. But then, business phone Japanese is very formulaic, and I knew those
>>formulas. My accent was fine, my grammar and vocab (outside of my work field)

>Dude, if I ever get the time to get to your level of fluency in
>speaking, I'll send you my next platinum hit Japanese CD!! 8-).

Phone Japanese is not a matter of being fluent: it's matter of memorizing
formulas and keigo/kenjougo. Normal conversation doesn't have such comforting
rules.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - Oh come on! You didn't think I was serious, did you?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:12462 talk.politics.guns:25301
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:56:58 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <Dec16.043203.38387@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
> 	Only the situation where "no guns exist among civilian except in the 
> 	hands of certified people or of bad guys" allows us to carry the plastic
>	and zinc weapon.

I sincerely don't understand this.  When a police officer sees a person with a
weapon on the street, how does he know whether the gun is a toy or the person
is a criminal?  And what does s/he then do about it?

> 	Even so, I doubt that any one learning a foreign language has a chance
> 	to learn what cops say when they point the gun at you very often. 

> 	I am not picking on you but have
> 	your foreign language teachers taught you what cops in France or 
> 	whatever say to you when they are stopping you?  Have you really 
> 	realized that you really need to know those "special" terms when you 
> 	travel another country where your native language is not used?

When I speak in an agitated or threatening fashion, even my dog comprehends 
the situation, and she understand no languages at all...
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:11:38 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec16.045427.5078@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.
Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>The reason that we in the USA are in such a state is because we have
>so many bozos like those TSU students who are willing to steal.  I'm not

The lawyers are the main problem.  Common criminals share basic animal
fear of punishment.  Lawyers mitigate that punishment.  Or at least they
delay, increase friction, increase costs of prosecuting someone.  On a
lighter note, we have around 350 or 400 inmates in CA on death row; 2
per day is all I ask! :-O

>Every single damn one of those *ssh*l*s should have been locked up and
>put on trial in a Japanese court.  Since none of them are diplomats,

They each should have had their little pinky fingers amputated (without
anaesthetic! 8-).

>I want those *ssh*l*s to know that, in some parts of the world, you can't
>sucker people as badly as you can sucker people in America.  When you 

Yooo, Dwight-san, we can always sic Rikiya-san on these guys once they
get back.  Then subject them to my caustic rendition of "SAY YES" 100
times over! :-)

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:12459 alt.sex:39725 soc.culture.usa:9235 soc.culture.african.american:12962 sci.electronics:20867 misc.consumers:20741 misc.education:5327 misc.entrepreneurs:3631