HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: Beethoven - overvalued?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1992Aug18.030503.26388@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> <7072@charon.cwi.nl>
	<1992Aug25.044827.9106@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:09:14

In article <1992Aug25.044827.9106@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>No, No, I was right the first time. Beethoven comes first, then Mozart, then
>Bach in fifth spot. After all, Mozart is in fourth.
>>> email: vanloon@cwi.nl  Not knowing Bach = not really living
>				       ^^^^
>another careless mistake. This should be Beethoven.

  Everybody has his own favourite to be the greatest composer of all. You
  are really stupid, if you insist on Beethoven like that! 
  Especially as I have Bach in the first place and after him I don't care...
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: A Brahms Contrarian
In-reply-to: jeffw@or.credence.com's message of Tue, 25 Aug 1992 01:22:24 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 25 Aug 92 14:52:55 CDT


Jeff, I like your impassioned defense of Brahms.  And you managed to do
it without even mentioning my (and probably everyone else's) favorites:
the last two symphonies and the German Requiem.  Let me also mention the
cello sonatas, which are about as Brahmsian as you can get.  I can never
understand the dismissals of Brahms by people like Shaw (but then Shaw's
judgment may be suspect: his idea of utopia, as portrayed in
_Major_Barbara_, was the company town of the Krupp Arms Works, and his
idea of a nifty national leader was Stalin).

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:42:42 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

mc7g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Raymond Cote) wrote:
> One of my favorite pieces of music is Hector Berlioz' _Symphony
> Fantastique_.  I would like to find more orchestral works which are
> along this line; grounded in the fantastic and/or macabre.  For example,
> one work which I vaguely remember hearing of is "Danse Macabre," though
> I don't recall the composer's name.  

If you didn't have the liner notes, how could you tell? - have a listen to
Rachmaninoff's "Symphonic Dances" (which use the same "Dies Irae" theme and
have similar scoring, but no explicit programme).  As pure sound, is it any
less macabre?  Elgar thought his Piano Quintet reflected the atmosphere of
the horror stories of his friend Algernon Blackwood - I doubt if anyone
would have noticed without being told that.

Personally, I think Schoenberg's First Chamber Symphony *really* ought to
have been called The Love-Dance Of The Corpseworms... I think you'll find
the music fits the bill...

One piece which is *intended* to fit your description is H.K. Gruber's
"Frankenstein!!".  Gruber's performing it here in the next few months.  Any
opinions?  Is Gruber composition's equivalent of Gilbert Kaplan, a man with
a one-work career?

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: news@unlinfo.unl.edu
Subject: Suzuki Violin & Classical Guitar
 
 I have two children who are studying violin using the Suzuki method. 
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:49:01 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
From: wchsieh@beethoven.lcs.mit.edu (Wilson Hsieh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:02:20 GMT
Organization: lcs.mit.edu

In article <1992Aug26.205043.11128@fid.morgan.com>, steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
|> I've been listening to two versions:  Schreier/Richter on Philips,
|> and a newish recording on Channel Classics with Max van Egmond
|> (fortepiano) and Jos van Immerseel (baritone).  Both are wonderful.
|> 
|> I'd welcome pointers to other performances, opinions, observations,
|> whatever.

-- 

There is always the Fischer-Dieskau recording; unfortunately, I can't
remember the pianist's name.  Ah, the onset of old age...

 - Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:42:23 GMT

In article <Btopq6.L4I@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K.
Yoder) writes:
>
>OK, let's play a little game.  Tell me what is alike about the following 
>things: Apples, Stop signs, bloodshot eyes, the flag of China, and blood.
>The concept you are deriving is that of "Red things".  If I also said that
>some particular beach ball belonged to that class, what could you say about
>it?
>
>Here's an interesting exercise:  Do you think that music is a kind of art?
>If so, what would you say al of the various kinds of art have in common?
>In other words, tell me what is ALIKE about music, painting, sculpture,
>literature, and dance.  Perhaps your answer will allow you to better
>understand
>where I get my definition from.
>
Those who ignore Wittgenstein are condemned to repeat him.
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:46:28 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug19.111503.29246@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues) writes:
>
>Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that you are that kind of people that
>listens music in their cars on the way home after a working day.

Since I know (or know of) all kinds of people who listen to music in
their cars, from simple folks to sophisticated academics (including
musicologists), I'm still in the dark as to what exactly kind of people 
do _you_ have in mind.

-Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Recommend Recording
Reply-To: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:46:33 GMT

Hi! Everybody:

     There are some recordings which is worth to introduce to you:

     "Baroque Duet"- Arias from Handel, Bach...etc.
     Kathleen Battle, Soprano. Winton Marsalis, Trumpet.
     Anthony Norman, Conductor. Orchestra of St.Luke
     Sony Classical Records

     Mahler "Das Lied Von Erde"
     Waltraud Meier, Mezzo Soprano. Siegfree Jerlusalem, Tenor
     Daniel Barenboim, conductor. Chicago Symphony Orchestra
     Live Recording. Erato Records.

     Bruckner Symphony No.7
     Kurt Masur, Conductor. New York Philharmonic
     Live Recording. Teldec Records

     Bruckner Symphony No.4 "Romantic"
     Clauddio Abbado, Conductor. Wienner Philharmoniker
     DG Records

     Shostakovich Symphony No.8
     Leonard Slatkin, Conductor. Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra
     RCA Records

     Bartok Violin Concerto No.1 & 2
     Midori, Violin. Zubin Mehta, Conductor.
     Berliner Philharmoniker
     Sony Classical Records
From: mmf@evolving.com (Mark Frazier)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: records-database
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:14:11 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.


Chris, my e-mail to you bounced, so I'll post here:

In article <CB.92Aug31122022@tamarack13.timbuk> you write:
:My main aim for a recordings database would be to
: eliminate redundant typing while allowing complete flexibility in how
: the data is retrieved.  I think this aim requires a fully relational

Chris,
 A friend I used to work with has been building a system which sounds
 very similar to what Dave Lampson described (rather elaborately) in
 post number 10. He was building a relational database, to eliminate
 redundancy of composer information, etc. He even had it capable of
 handling different performances of music by the same composer. That
 is, he had info on orchestras, etc, so as not to confuse Bethovens
 7th with Bernstein with B. 7th with Joseph Cripps. He was using
 Borland's Paradox for a DBMS. I know that he was talking about
 selling both the software AND the populated composer, etc database.
 This would save a lot of time. I don't know what he wanted for it,
 or how far along he is, since I left TRWonderful 5 months ago, and
 have been too busy to get together with him. He is a database genius
 and was doing an excellent job. If you'd like, I can get you his
 number so you can contact him about about it.

 PS. The UI was using MS windows.

MMF
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Reger's Song of the Hermit
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:38:00 GMT
Organization: Cornell University

Chris Brewster asks if there's any interest in Reger out here.
I've heard his music described as plodding and unimaginative.
I don't know; i've only heard the 2nd organ sonata, three
of the quartets for strings and some of the other chamber
music (see earlier posts).  I haven't heard any of the plodding
stuff (well, maybe the piano concerto is, in the first movement-
but then, the violin concerto isn't).  What i have heard has
great counterpoint, deep (somewhat Shostakovich-like in profusion
of solos) slow movements (try the a minor trio's second movement,
op. 77b, on for size), poignant harmonies, a rich imagination,
and a definite sense of humor (second movement of the eminor
piano trio, second theme of the first movt. of the b minor piano
trio, scherzo of the a minor string trio, finale of the d minor
trio).  Sometimes, too, he has the sort of sweet melancholy
i know from Saint-Saens (that composer's first string quartet),
Stenhammar (Wilhelm's fourth string quartet) and Prokofiev
(again, first string quartet): examples in Reger include the
openings of the d minor string trio (op. 141b), the e minor piano
trio (op. 102) and the e minor violin sonata.  Chamber instrumentation
probably brought out the best in him, anyway.  

schissel@math.cornell.edu
schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used to make post)
   
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues)
Subject: Portuguese Polyphony
Reply-To: tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:05:04 GMT


To the appreciators I strongly advise :

 "Masterpieces of Portuguese Polyphony", by the William Byrd Choir, hyperion.

and specially

 "Frei Manuel Cardoso REQUIEM", by the Tallis Scholars, Gimell.

 The Portuguese school of renaissance composers is beginning to be explored, 
and Frei Manuel Cardoso is in my opinion one of the great composers although
not very well known.

 tomanix
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:02:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.074603.7557@fid.morgan.com>, steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.013839.21419@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug24.153614.4915@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>>[...]
>>>If you're looking for a "composer" who deserves your invective,
>>>might I suggest Cornelius Cardew.  Now *there's* a dangerous clown.
>>>Those who doubt, please see his chapter on musical notation in the
>>>anthology _Breaking the Sound Barrier_, ed. Babcock (citation from
>>>memory), in which he castigates Cage and others as tools of the
>>>bourgeoisie.  Presumably, he belives they should be executed, or
>>>subjected to thought-reform.
>>>
>>>A foul and ugly human being.
>>
>>How dare you! Did you ever meet him? I knew Cornelius quite well
>>during the early 70s, and a more kind and generous man you could not
>>hope to meet. His Maoist politics may have led him to a certain amount
>>of loopy statements, but I'm sure he didn't believe anybody should be
>>executed or subject to thought-reform. Many of the members of his
>>Scratch Orchestra (myself among them) disagreed profoundly with his
>>politics. He never once even attempted to persuade me with argument
>>to his point of view. You are way out of line on this one, my friend.
>>
> 
> Tell me what you think of Paul de Mann, by all accounts a warm and
> charming human being.  Never mind the anti-Judaic trash he penned
> for the Nazis.

Never heard of the guy, so I don't prepare to get bogged down in
specific cases.

> 
> Then tell me why you think Mr. Cardew's Maoist activities deserve
> kinder treatment.

Did I say this? I said I disagreed with his politics, and pointed out
that he *never* in the several years that I knew him, attempted to ram
politics down anyone's throat. I don't think he believed in coercion. He
certainly didn't believe in genocide.

> I'd say it to his face were he alive.  Never doubt it.
> 
> My intention was not to cause pain to friends or family.  But this
> is what happens when you make yourself famous.

So why did you say what you said? You described him as a "foul and ugly
human being" without knowing *anything* about the man other than a
handful of his writings. He was *not* a mass murderer, he did *not*
"destroy music" and he did not advocate exterminating anyone or thought
control. Your beef with him appears to be that you disagree with his
politics. 
-- 
===============================================================
|Deryk Barker Computer Science Dept.  | Without music life    |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC	      | would be a mistake    |
|Canada 			      | (Friedrich Nietsche). |
===============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:28:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.172014.661@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska) writes:

[after I said]
>>And you forgot the one just before that, with Daniel Barenboim on DG.

>It must have been my subconsciousness, because I truly, truly cannot
>stand Barenboim.

On the basis of a lot (not all) of his conducting, I could see why.

But, Margaret, he's done some fabulous work as a song accompanist.  Some
of my favorite recordings of anything are the Wolf volumes he and F-D
did together for DG -- especially Volume 1 (all Moerike).  They are
about the only team I know (conceivably F-D and Richter are another, I
don't recall that disc as well) which has realized that the climaxes of
some songs (such as Auf einer Wanderung) are in the *piano*, and must be
allowed to take off in a soloistic way for a moment.  He also plays just
beautifully in those sets.

I can't say that he has the same qualities in Winterreise, because I've
never heard that one.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Richard Korkosz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Recordings of S. Richter
Date: 28 Aug 1992 21:11:09 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu

Hi folks, 

	I'm interested in hearing opinions on CD recordings made by 
Sviatoslav Richter.  What performances really knock your socks off?  If 
anyone has a discography of his recordings, that would be wonderful as 
I'd really like to explore them.  However, comments are also welcome so 
that I have an idea which recordings are especially worth seeking out.  
I'd like to try chamber works and concertos as well as solo piano works.

	I already have his recordings of Liszt concertos on Philips, 
Mussorgsky's "Pictures..." (also works of Liszt & Chopin) on Philips 
(pretty bad sound, but he plays the $%#@ out of those Pictures!), 
Prokoffiev sonata #8 (also Scriabin & Debussy works) on DG, Franck quintet 
(also Liszt works) on Philips, Beethoven's Triple concerto and sonata #17 
on EMI, and the Shostakovich quintet on EMI.  I'm happy with all of 
these :-).  Also, just today I picked up a recent RCA release of a live 
recording from 1988 of Brahm's 1st sonata and Liszt works.  Can't wait to 
go home and try it!!!


Looking forward to hearing about your favorite Richter recordings!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Rick Korkosz                            + 
 korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu              +
 Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Some thoughts about Mozart's 'Haydn' quartets(1)
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:43:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: Princeto.1992Aug29.214314.17198
Organization: Cornell University

The quartets in E-flat and C (K.428-no. 16 and K.465-no. 19) have in
common harmonization on IV (second phrase of first theme in K.428/i,
and near the beginning of K.465/ii, to use William Newman's notation
 for movements) and the sort of exact/transposed repetition in changed
surroundings recently attributed to Schubert in .Fanfare. (K.428/ii,
K.465/i).  Although equality is often attributed to the distribution of
melodies/important figures between the instruments in these works, the
first violin still leads, just less totally.  As a last thought
(in part 2 i'll happily present something coherent; i didn't have much
sleep) Alfred Einstein's observations (in Mozart: his Character and Work)
that in both these quartets, counterpoint is used to complete thoughts
(near the end of K.428/iv and of K.465/ii) could probably be extended
with further quotes and is certainly true in the instances he describes.

I have read notes here and there in which Reger is given priority for
the use of substantial octave - unison sections in quartet writing.
It seems that the phrase near the opening of K.465/iii is longer than
the examples of Brahms usually used to explain what the writer meant
by 'substantial'. Just a thought.

schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used to make post)
schissel@math.cornell.edu
       
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Subject: Re: Record Collectors Alert
Organization: Cornell University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:13:46 GMT

Has anyone, preferably someone who's heard the great recording
of it on Caprice, heard the new recording of Stenhammar's sublime
4th string quartet in a minor, op. 25?  There's one with Berwald's
(much happier) a minor quartet and the 2nd of a fellow named Koch
(information?) that's come out recently and i plan to get this
new recording if it's any good, since the recording on Caprice
(or Musica Sveciae?) with the 3rd seems no longer distributed in the
U.S.  And i really do want a recording - this  is a piece that speaks
to the melancholy soul. I recommend it.

schissel@math.cornell.edu
schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used to post)
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:20:14 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <BtyD0G.Ht7@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.211335.10349@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska) writes:
>
>>Recording*s* - he recorded it several times:
>
>>* with Gerald Moore (more than once) - EMI, DG
>>* with Joerg Demus - DG (I'm almost sure there was a Winterreise with
>>  Demus, among other songs or cycles)
>
>In this case, I think the Demus recording came *first*.  At any rate,
>the first Moore, on EMI, was F-D's second recording of it, issued around
>1963.

I believe you.  Thanks for the info.

>>* with Alfred Brendel - Philips
>
>And you forgot the one just before that, with Daniel Barenboim on DG.

It must have been my subconsciousness, because I truly, truly cannot
stand Barenboim.

-Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: studio der fruhen musik
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:33:26 GMT

In article <9208311531.AA13262@mammoth.Berkeley.EDU> SLC@HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU (Steven Cantor) writes:
>there were a number of recordings made by the group studio der fruhen musik
>(thomas binkley, andrea von ramme, etc.) for the reflexe series (german emi,
>i think) of early music recordings.  i found many of these recordings to be
>quite wonderful and was wondering if anyone knew whether or not any of these
>had been/will be reissued on cd?
>thanks,
>s.

"Reflexe" is an EMI series (not necessarily "German EMI").  Binkley's
group recorded also for Telefunken; some of their recordings were
re-issued by Teldec on CDs (in the mid-price "References" line), and 
were promptly deleted from the catalog.
(BTW, it's Andrea voN rAMm, no 'e'.  Interesting voice.)

They were indeed great, one of the best early music groups.

-Margaret
From: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:08:32 GMT
Reply-To: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

>
>Lastly, the ideology which Bush professes (which I don't happen to believe he
>actuall subscribes to) cannot be made to justify mass killings for no good 
>reasons, Maoism on the other hand is quite consistent with such actions.

[as a non-rec.music.classical aside:] the "ideology" which George Bush
subscribes to can "justify" anything, anytime, anywhere, such as selling nerve
gas to Saddam or bombing Iraqi citizens, depending on the phase of the moon. It
might involve banning the "unwholesome, elitist" music of John Cage  if George
thought that it would please a special-interest group or gain a few votes... 

Bill

>
>--Brian
>
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical