HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Subject: Re: [This is what Corey says] This is what the Jehovah's Witnesses do.
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:32:53 GMT

lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>Andreas was trying to change Corey's beliefs by threat rather than reason,
>this is a blantant admission that Corey is right since Andreas has nothing
>left but to resort to threats. 
>While posting e-mail is not kosher threatening people is much less
>kosher. I have to say I believe Corey made the right decision when posting
>this, threats can only be countered by publisizing them. Making a threat
>public turns it back on the author. If your going to make threats you
>had better expect to see them published for all to see.

	First, such posting was against the commonly accepted netiquette. Second
	I have nothing to hide. I could have said it here in the net, I thought 
	besides that everybody _knew_ my attitude. So, I had nothing to hide,  
	but I used private email because this had no public importance. 

>Just because Corey isn't threatened with physical harm doesn't remove
>the fact that this is blackmail.

	No, it isn't. I don't want to convert back an apostate. I don't want to
	discuss with him. This was my point - it was only a statement, nothing 
	else. If he comes back, good, if he doesn't - well it is HIS decision. 
	I have no interest on him any longer. 

>Translation- We won't talk to you any more since we are afraid we
> might begin to question as well. But you had better come back other
> wise you will go to hell.

	No. Translation: We don't need to talk with you any longer. You know the
	facts. You are welcome back, if you want to come. You can decide freely.
	I refuse to take part to your crime, you are an outsider with whom I 
	have nothing to do. 

>>    you independently analyze the quotes and their context *ON YOUR OWN* to
>>    see if the critical analysis was *really* accurate; or did you just
>>    accept what the critics said because you have been looking for a reason
>>    to quit being a Witness anyway? 

>But have you thought about what your religion says *ON YOUR OWN*? 

	Yes, I have. 
-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint
      Drusba ? Absurd !               ;     Edom mode    
      E, Roma ? Amore !               ;     Devil lived
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JWs and their blood hypocrisy
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:27:12 GMT
Organization: University of Joensuu

kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes:
>> Even here in F-land blood is hidden
>> 	to food although the producers know some people can't eat it.

>  You consider that persecution?  Not labeling food?  That is lack of FDA
>perhaps, but if thats the way you want to go:

	I said that for the much smaller moselem minority the food was labeled.

>  What horrible persecution I face:

>    My beliefs forbid cursing, but books with curse-words in them are never
>clearly labeled!

	I think they are in Americas: At least music is. 

>    My beliefs forbid casual sex, but movies rarely make it clear whether there
>is nudity in them.

>    My beliefs forbid violence, but TV shows never make it clear before hand
>that there is violence in them.


	Me too, me too. 

>  You have to be joking.  How can you sit there and compare the lack of food
>labeling with mass slaughter?

	Because the result is the same or even worse: If you're murdered in a
	camp, you'll have resurrection, but if you eat knowingly eat blood, it
	can't be granted. 
>  I could just as easily say I am being persecuted because nobody ever talks
>about my religion.  A conclusion is worthless if it follows from any set of
>hypothesies.

	Perhaps, because you're not actively publishing your religious 
	opinions. 
-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint
      Drusba ? Absurd !               ;     Edom mode    
      E, Roma ? Amore !               ;     Devil lived
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Hear Ye Him!
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:49:39 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul22.202158.16042@uwm.edu> glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:
>Believe in me or you will be condemned to eternal hellfire.
>If that's supposed to be the good news, I don't wanna know
>the bad news.

That's the bad news, too - for if you believe not you REMAIN
under God's wrath.

The deal is that Jesus paid the price and the opportunity is 
offered to you and to WHOMEVER believes - THIS IS TRULY THE 
GOOD NEWS, for no one can work his way into heaven.

What you may want to consider is how much do you want to hold
onto in this life that is worth losing eternity with God, the
God of All Comfort, the God of Peace - God is love, in fact
he loved us while we were yet sinners and gave himself for us.
 
>Glenn     glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: FOLLOW ME AND BE FREE
Summary: learn from dogma, but don't be dogmatic
Keywords: Luke 14:26
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:42:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.094138.12539@phillip.edu.au> 
lbarrass@phillip.edu.au writes:
>Who is "ME". Sounds like the old deceit of the devil to me.
>The only authority is that of God and His Word.

Keep thinking, keep thinking. Who else said these words? Does knowing who
said these words make a difference? Are you sure? Clue: The only authority is
the individual, ... if one is free. That is what it means to be an authentic 
person living an authentic life. Now will you follow me and be free? Will
you follow anyone? And still expect to be free?

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Evidence
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:00:02 GMT

In article <15546@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> rlwinter@taco.ucdavis.edu (Richard Lee Winterstein) writes:
}Speaking of evidence~
}
}I understand there is a file floating around that critically examines Josh
}McDowell's _Evidence_that_Demands_a_Verdict_.  Could someone either mail it
}to me, post it here, or direct me to an archive containing it?  Thanks in
}advance,

Sent you what I put together.  Since it is abou;t 3500+ lines, hope you have
the room...
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JWs and their blood hypocrisy
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:20:28 GMT
Organization: University of Joensuu

suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki) writes:

>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 1992 15:07:35 GMT, asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) said:


>Antti> 	Even here in F-land blood is hidden
>Antti> 	to food although the producers know some people can't eat it. 

>It is hidden? Can you elaborate?

	With "hidden" I mean that in the contensts "blood" is seldom mentioned,
	usually there stands "plasma", which refers to blood-plasma. However
	the word plasma is usually used like an adjective to describe the 
	being, "blood-plasma" would be better. I've never found warnings in 
	pizzas etc. microwawe-products, so I'm unsure if they contain blood or
	not. 

>Antti>  If the 
>Antti> 	food contains pork, then there are big warning-labels, although there 
>Antti> 	are fewer Moslems + Jews than JWs. 

>Big warning labels?!!!?  
>It's very appropriate to say: RUBBISH!!!  RUBBISH!!! RUBBISH!!!
>Antti spews lies about Finland again.

	At least in the cans I bought from Lihapolar's shop in Kuopio there    
	were labels.

-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint
      Drusba ? Absurd !               ;     Edom mode    
      E, Roma ? Amore !               ;     Devil lived
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:12694 rec.arts.books:13108 talk.philosophy.misc:1465
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Subject: Re: Predestination Mr. Adams
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:26:47 GMT

I have always wondered about the rationale for predestination.  It would
seem that if our free will had no bearing on salvation, then
what is the point of 90% of the NT?  Evangelism has no point, because no one
can of their own accord choose God.  All Jesus', John's, Paul's, etc. sermons
on "follow me" and "repent" and indeed all the missionary journeys
described in Acts have no meaning.  They are useless at best if those
who are being preached to really have no choice.  And for Jesus to say
such things while knowing that salvation was not a choice we could make
seems very mocking.  I have a hard time accepting a teaching that purports
to be derived from Scripture when it makes pointless many of the other
commands (like the Great Commission) found within.

Ernest Mueller
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Evidence
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Jul22.144345.28521@csrd.uiuc.edu> <13193@pogo.wv.tek.com>
	<1992Jul23.130033.22139@csrd.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:42:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.130033.22139@csrd.uiuc.edu> skinner@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu 
(Gregg Skinner) writes:

   >daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
   >>you will find a discussion of rhetorical fallacies in Alfred Tarsky's
   >Tarsky's book, though.  I'll see if we have it.

  Actually, it is Tarski. That was how this Polish logician's name was
spelled. I have a suggestion here. Let's forget all about this God business,
this religion business, all that kind of thing. Let us just reflect on the
great utterance that is now and will forever be associated with Tarski:

    "Snow is white" is true if and only if snow is white
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: [This is what Corey and Tim says] This is what the Jehovah's Witnesses do.
From: scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:02:28 GMT
Reply-To: scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <LAURAF.92Jul28114123@wolf.eecs.umich.edu> lauraf@eecs.umich.edu (Laura Falk) writes:
>
>I cannot comprehend how man could just evolve.

Sorry, but this is _another_ stupid argument.  What you say is,
"My imagination and comprehension are so poor that I can't understand 
this thing; therefore, it must not be true."

Why do you think your inability to understand or imagine something
has any bearing on it's truth?



-- 
But you knew your figure cut a cipher/ Through every crafted plan/ And 
playing our game for real/ Saw through our plumbing jobs/ And wayward glands/
To a meaning of your own, in bones."  - Iain M. Banks, "Use of Weapons"
Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and may change without prior notice.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: skinner@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Gregg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Free gifts? NOT!
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 14:58:50 GMT

daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:

>    PS. If I had to guess I would bet that Gregg will once again try to 
>    find a way to twist his words so that they don't actually mean what 
>    obviously do.

I won't do you the favor, Mr. Butler.  I've received plenty of email
from other posters now explaining to me that you seem to enjoy this
sort of verbal sparring more than actually discussing anything.
As I've told you, I'm here to learn and to share, not to argue.
Yesterday I received and accepted an offer from you to cool down
the tone of your postings.  I await fulfillment of that offer.
From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuals anywhere are wrong
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:13:16 GMT
	<1992Jul24.215359.20714@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Jul24.215359.20714@athena.cs.uga.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:

   In article <91776@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

   If I understand what you mean, then the verses can't be read this way
   and make sense.  In Romans 1, heterosex is described as natural.  You can't
   just go through and add in and take out words to make it say the opposite.

In Romans 11, God describes the tree of Israel.  He then predicts the
eventual reconciliation of the Jews, producing a unified tree.  His
concern in the argument is to prevent Gentile Christians from
considering themselves superior to Jewish non-Christians.  In verse 24
we find the remarkable:

  For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree
  and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how
  much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own
  olive tree.

Pay close attention here.  Paul is telling us that the presence of
Gentile Christians is unnatural, but necessary because of the need to
"break off" (verse 17) some of the natural branches.  He says that the
grafting on of Gentile Christians to the tree, something done by God,
through Christ, is "contrary to nature".  

Now, this phrase, the Greek "para physein" is precisely the same
expression we find in 1:27.  God here is acting contrary to nature,
doing something UNNATURAL--and yet, that unnatural thing is the
greatest of acts remembered by Christians.

To equate nature with the will of God is a gross error.  God acts
contrary to nature.  To presume that nature is a law of existence we
should not exceed is a serious error.

--
Michael I. Bushnell             |		Benedictus qui venit
+1 617 625 4518 (H)            -+-                       in
+1 617 253 8568 (W)             |                      Nomine
mib@gnu.ai.mit.edu              |                      Domini
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Bible version evaluation
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:49:11 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

In article <drice.711701689@ponder>
drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
 
>
>In <1992Jul13.165831.12438@oclc.org> jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff) writes:
>
>>I would like to aquire an accurate translation of the bible and
>>would like the net's opinion of the strengths and weaknesses of the
>>different versions available.  Although the RSV is highly regarded,
>>the NRSV claims to be an improvement on it.  For this reason,
>>I though I should delay my decision until I have better information.
>>Specific references to editions with good footnotes would be appreciated.
>>Since some editions have inspirational notes included, I must note that
>>this is of less interest to me than historical explanations of phrases
>>and cross-references to related passages.  Thanks in advance.
>
>I highly recommend the NIV. I recently began reading the NIV after using
>the KJV for almost my entire life. The terminology is more understandable
>and doesn't have the problems that the KJV does (IMO). A friend of my
>wife's said that the KJV was poetically brilliant at the risk of being
>inaccurate.
>
>As for footnotes and study helps, check out the NIV Thompson Chain Reference
>Bible. It has tons of notes!
 
Personally, I like Young's Literal Translations!
 
 
A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land,
 
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  Science, Religion and Philosophy are three great tools we have     |
 |  to work with in our pursuit of our own destinies.  A wise man      |
 |  never limits his knowledge and understanding, but uses them        |
 |  throughout his life to win the prize he seeks.                     |
 |                                                 -  Roger Holfeltz   |
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably                     |
 |             not your's either!                                      |
 |                                    Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com  |
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: cskeaa@vehka.cs.uta.fi (Ketola Aarne Vesa Pekka)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Just Curious
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:55:53 GMT
Reply-To: cskeaa@vehka.cs.uta.fi (Ketola Aarne Vesa Pekka)
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

A famous indian, Seattle, put it quite well when he said
that the red man has same God as white man. And white
man will find it out some day.

Pekka
--
##########################  'Contrariwise', continued Tweedledee,'if it was
     Pekka Ketola        #    so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be;
  Keskisenkatu 6 K 63    #    but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
 33710 TAMPERE,  FINLAND #    (Lewis Carroll, 1871)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals anywhere are wrong
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:50:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.201032.23026@athena.cs.uga.edu>, hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>My post dealt with  the point, I wanted to make:  that we cannot read our
>culture and the connotations of our language into the New Testament.

Exactly.  Just because Jesus loved John doesn't mean they were having sex.
It's only in our culture that love = sex.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

     "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"
	                     -- Matthew 15:4

          "You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on 
                       to the traditions of men."
                             -- Mark 7:8  
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: Jesus Would Gag
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:10:09 GMT

simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:

>	Why don't you believe in Santa Claus?

>If you believe in God but not in Santa, please account for your different
>conclusions. By the way, if your belief in God is based on scripture, no
>problem. Take your bible, and do a global substitution of "Santa" in place
>of "God". Now you have an authoritative scripture which proclaims the glory
>of Santa.

  true.  but that book would no longer be the bible.  it would be santa's
scriptures which i would disbelieve in as much as i disbelieve in hindu
[or any other religion's] scripture.  
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:12816 rec.arts.sf.written:10329
From: adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Going Back in Time to Meet Jesus Christ -- What Would You See?
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:57:26 GMT
	<1992Jul26.123447.17713@maths.tcd.ie> <mxr.712281255@neptune>
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Oxford University
In-reply-to: mxr@neptune.dsc.com's message of 27 Jul 92 23:54:15 GMT

In article <mxr.712281255@neptune> mxr@neptune.dsc.com (Max "Numbing Terrible Omission" Rible) writes:
   pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes:
   >Actually, there's a very good Sf short story about package holidays
   >to Jerusalem at the time of Jesus to witness his crucifiction. Can 
   >anyone remember the title?

   I heard about one story where the theme was that it was a very popular
   event to go back to, and naturally, in order to avoid disrupting the
   course of history, they coached people carefully on their reactions.
   At the "thumbs down" bit (or whatever the appropriate thing was
   regarding public approval), of course, they were supposed to give the
   documented reaction.  Eventually, the time travel corporation noticed
   that the vast majority of people at the crucifixion were tourists...
   oops...  Anyone know the title of that one?

   Max

I think you're both talking about the same story.  My guess that it's
called _Let's go to Golgotha_, and I'm pretty certain it's by Garry
Kilworth.  It might be collected in _The Songbirds of Pain_, but I'm
not certain about any of this as my book list was stolen with my
Filofax.

- Adrian

Warning: the author of the above message is happy, well adjusted, and
attempting to be cynical.  He is not, nor has he ever been, an
anthropomorphic animal, though he has, on occasion, been a small dog
or penguin.  He does not use smilies.  Thank you for your cooperation.
From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Playing God (WAS Re: The C word)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:54:26 GMT
Organization: SPS


In article <1992Jul19.013352.16985@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>
>So when did god tell you that its ok to eat meat containing blood? To
>eat cheeseburgers? To cut your beard?

I don't particularly want to get into this discussion, but I believe the
answer to the question is found in Galatians 3:23-25.

Paul tells the Galatians that the Old Testament Law no longer applies to 
them, that they are under a new covenant, one of faith.  I think many have
concluded from this that any Old Testament commands not specifically repeated
in the New Testament no longer apply.

Regards,

Dave Weaver
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: vbaker@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: why i no longer hate christianity
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:26:53 GMT

That it worked one way for you does not mean that it cannot work
differently for others.

I could tell practically the same story you did, substituting
Pantheism for Christianity.

Vincent
From: banshee@cats.ucsc.edu (Wailer at the Gates of Dawn)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Structure of Time (FINAL SUMMARY)
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:14:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


wolf@prosun.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler) writes:

>I think someone should stop this nonsens postings !
>This serious newsgroup is not the right place for that.
>If the author believes in some strange abilities of his daughter, he should
>post to alt.spleen or something else.
I suggest alt.butt-kegs.marmalade

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@cats.UCSC.EDU       |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU      |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| banshee@ucscb.BITNET        |
From: dalton@epoch.Geop.UBC.CA (David Dalton)
Subject: Re: Structure of Time (FINAL SUMMARY)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy, UBC, Vancouver, Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 05:43:13 GMT

Perhaps he should be posting to alt.sci.physics.new-theories instead.
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You are right David
Keywords: pleading the promises
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:16:03 GMT
	<33167@zephyr.ens.tek.com> <12368@inews.intel.com> 
	<33204@zephyr.ens.tek.com>

davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:
<  This reminds me of a story told to me by a very close friend.
< ... she worked and worked on her faith so that it got to what she thought
<was a VERY strong and deep faith in Jesus Christ. And than she took
<that step into thin air......
<  Though she was lucky in that she only sprained her ankle, her faith
<in Christianity has been forever shattered.

<  In the case that I related, the person was young, I'm not sure how
<young, but a child still. Call the child a fool, but I put some of
<the blame on the Sunday School teachers who were so intent on teaching
<"faith in Jesus Christ that they may have over stepped their bounds in 
<what they were teaching.

It's a sickness called TVfundyevangelicalism. It is found all over the world
wherever there are meak to prey on, but it is most prevalent in the US and
Iran. It is understandable in Iran where there really was a Western Devil for
them to chase out, but why the US? Why do so many fall for the free gift
grift? Was P.T. Barnum correct about a sucker being born every minute?
Learn from dogma, but don't be dogmatic.