HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: raist@rmece02.upr.clu.edu (Ricardo Hernandez)
Subject: Re: Mac vs Amiga
Organization: UPR-Mayaguez--ASEL Lab
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:17:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov24.015923.5581@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:
|> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
[stuff deleted]

|> 
|> Since most of the stuff we have been reading on comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
|> are bashing of other computers, I would like to congratulate Douglas in
|> taking time to try an Amiga out.  (I remember he and I got into an argument
|> about Mac vs Amiga at least once).  I think Douglas did a good job--and he
|> also demonstrated the importance of "giving someone/something a chance"
|> before bashing the living-day-light out of of he/she/it.  
|> 
|> I encourage our fellow Amigans to do the same.  It is OK to be defensive
|> about the Amiga.  However, please don't go around trashing other computers
|> just for the sake of doing it...
|> 
|> Thanks. :)
|> 
|> Yours Sincerely,
|> Kelvin
|> e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu


   Not all people with Amigas do that.  I don't consider myself in 
that group (and BTW, I have used the Mac more than my Ami 500 for two
years before I bought the Amiga... and still I use Macs for some things
here at my college).

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Raist   // Amiga 500, 38Mhz Special MegaMidget Racer
        \X/  Avid user of AmigaVision, sending mail from Mayaguez, Puerto Rico 
---------
From: Simon Palmer <simon.palmer@anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Urgent Need a Quick time, Sound & Video Editor
Date: 16 Nov 1992 10:22:37 GMT
Organization: The Australian National University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.56.7.6
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXDate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:22:38 GMT

Need a Public domain Quick time movie editor, I need it to edit sound
also well as video..... If anyone can help I would much appreciate it 

Ta Simon Palmer
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re:  EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:48:34 GMT

In article <root.02w9@rkamiga.UUCP>, root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
|> 
|> External SCSI drives for the Mac have a pc board inside that translates
|> Apple SCSI to real SCSI.

The Amiga, on the other hand, uses it external to the drives. Which means you
buy ONE controller card, and you can use SEVEN real SCSI drives...

|> >Printer -- It sure as hell doesn't cost $1000 for decent Mac printer.
|> >  300 dpi postscript laser printers can be had for less.  OK, it can't
|> >  use a parallel printer without a relatively expensive adaptor box,
|> >  but don't try and tell me Apple invented serial printers.  I have
|> >  a serial printer at home that was designed before the Apple ][ was
|> >  sold.

WHERE can you get a postscript printer for under $1000??????

|> A less than $1000 Apple laser printer uses TrueType rather than Postscript.

Thank you for clearing that up. I was gonna run right out and buy an Apple
laser! My HP IIp cost me $950 when it first came out, and it didn't even have
enough MEMORY to print 300dpi! Forget postscript...

|> But don't blame Apple.  Adobe gets a $500-1000 license fee depending on
|> what level of Postcript that a printer uses.

That's sick.

|> >ADB -- OK, PC's don't let you hook up multiple keyboards.  This is
|> >  different.  But, non-Apple ADB keyboards can be purchased for about
|> >  as much as a good PC keyboard.

Multiple keyboards? Gee, I can see where THAT might be useful... 8)

|> >OK, the floppy port's different.  You win.

Well, EVERY computer has a different floppy port...

|> >I'm not sure about the video toaster, but it does have equivalent A-V
|> >tools.  They probably do cost more, you're right.

That is, from the latest information I've heard so far, patently NOT TRUE.
Every computer has, at the top of its line, display options which meet and 
surpass the Toaster's capabilities (yes, including the Amiga...), but NOTHING
out there can (yet...) do all of the VIDEO (as opposed to display...) things
that the Toaster can do!

The Toaster killers are coming... they will most likely be for the PC first,
and will probably cost $4000-$10,000. That's all rumour, of course...

|> >-- 
|> >Thomas Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
|> >  s-mail: 208 Saunders, 906 West College Court, Urbana IL 61801
|> 
|> --
|> Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.
|> 
|> 		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:07:04 GMT

In article <19408@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.010120.8535@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws19.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>>	It requires you to have Mac roms, in either hardware form or software
>>form. BTW, today I made a backup of my Workbench disk. Is CBM gonna come 
>>after me? No, they can't, since the law states that once you buy a software
>>package for your computer, you have the right to use it on any one computer
>>at any time. The same goes with your ROM. If you buy a Mac, you can get a 
>>copy of the ROM via software and use it with AMAX or Emplant legally, so long 
>>as no two copies run at the same time ie running the original Mac and the
>>Emplant at the same time is running from two copies.
>
>Oh, what a great idea this Emplant is! Let me see if I understand

You're not trying to understand. You are trying to make a snide remark without
thinking about it.

>this right: An Amiga user, in order to legally emulate a Macintosh, is going
>to buy a Macintosh?!?!?!  How brilliant!! What a great idea!

Some dealers will sell Mac ROMS. Get that? They SELL THE ROMS. If you'd been
reading people's responses, you would've picked this up by now. Well, maybe
not you. Although I'm sure the Mac ROMS are overpriced just like the computer.

>
>Of course, as the earlier posting about copying a friend's Mac ROMS
>shows, Amiga/Emplant users will probably just pirate the ROMS.

Of course, since I've seen one computer user mention pirating, every computer
user must be one.

>What a lovely bunch of people.

What a lovely person you must be.

>
>>      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
>>PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
>>    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."
>
>| David M. A. Putzolu               | putzolu@cs.ucdavis.edu               |
>| Senior, CS & Psych, U.C. Davis    | op disclaimer(opinion : ptr mine)    |

Wonderful, a psych major who likes to stereotype.

Francis
From: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newton tech (was The future of Apple)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:03:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) says:

>wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 260-8100) writes:
>
>>That's my point exactly. Apple is moving away from computers and toward
>>consumer electronics. What happens to people that like Apple computers?
>>Do we buy VCR's instead?
>
>Apple is certainly adding consumer electronics to their linup, but I fail
>to see where you get the idea that they are moving away from computers,
>especially since they may outsell IBM in terms of units sold this year
>(from Byte).
>
 I agree entirely- Apple is in NO way moving away from Computers- in fact
Apple is creating the "1990s" computers with the PowerPC right now. PDAs
are a fascet of this. Did IBM become any less of a company when they added 
PCs to selling mainframes as well? I think not. 

>>Yay, gross profiteering at the consumer's price. Apple used to have 
>>vision. Now they have marketing.
>
>Give me a break.  You don't call PDA's a vision?  I call it more of a
>vision than the Macintosh was.  Sculley has one hell of a vision, and
>that's what makes Apple's marketing so good (look at the Duo's now...now
>THAT's a nifty idea).
>
 I agree here too. First off, Newton has been redirected very recently as a
"Business Tool" and no longer labeled "Consumer electronics." Sculley was
at one point at Apple considered a dead end for the company- I disagree
entirely. Sculley has taken the "vision" of Steve Jobs and channeled it
into workable products, something Jobs could never do practically, yet
Sculley can. From Duos to PDAs, Apple's on the high road, and leaving the
PC market in the dust in future technologies. Sculley has a PLAN- step one
is working right now- increase the Macintosh user base. Its worked DAMNED
well thanks to the LC, IIsi, and Classic (not to mention everything else,
but the 1990 lineup started it all). Apple's focusing energies on its
future with the PowerPC and new products. We're going to see Apple in the
high-road nd regain its "Vision title".
>
>-- 
>             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
>
-- 
Travis Grundke	 	    |  For More information about MacGames Digest,
Contributing Editor-        |  The First Publication Dedicated to Macintosh
MacGames Digest		    |  Gaming, Please contact us at the previous 
an780@cleveland.freenet.Edu |  E-mail address. (c) 1992 Travis Grundke/MGD
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:08:29 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <BxoADt.22F@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>[someone wrote:
>>Well, I doubt that *even* if the Emplant works. I don't think Apple
>>will give up without a fight.
> 
>    They won't have to.  Amigas have zero advertizing in the U.S., where
> Apple has the majority of their sales.  

Actually, Apple nearly makes more revenue in international sales than in the 
US. The "majority" of sales in the US is only by 2 to 5%. 

> No purchasers of systems for businesses or schools would give Amigas with 
> Emplants a passing glance as serious replacements for genuine Macs.

Indeed.

It is often difficult for purchasers to even give Macs a serious glance.
Why, if Macs with their superior software base can't attract attention
from PC clones, how can the lessor-known Amiga (without as complete a
complement of software) garner equal attention?

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2652 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29241
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Emplant - Why it is not feasible as a workstation
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:04:15 GMT
Reply-To: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: ifbb657@donald.cc.utexas.edu


First and foremost, let me apologize for the rabidness of the previous
posts about the Emplant.

The Emplant is a great idea - if you are running a video lab and
need the Video Toaster and advanced video and sound.

The Emplant as a WORKSTATION is a totally different bird.  To
my knowledge, it does not have any TCP/IP, token ring, 
LocalTalk, or SLIP software so that precludes using it as
a workstation for high-end use.

Amiga's sw base is too small to find the items you need to
care and feed a workstation.  The NeXT can use all unix
stuff.  The Mac and PC have excellent sw bases.  (I am
not knocking the NeXT's sw base either, 600 MB freebies
are not bad with a system release :-).

IMHO, I just do not see C= making a dent in the places
where a workstation is needed.  If I do, I will be
surprised.

PS:  When you post, make sense and do not talk gibberish.  This
     goes to the Amiga sysop who was flopping out about the
     Emplant.


-- 
********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
                             ***********************************
You WANT your hard drive trashed now.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Resource fork saves space
From: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:27:04 GMT

RE: Winword 2.0 vs. Word 5.0

Word 5.1 adds the features that were lacking.
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2780 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29586
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
From: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:21:02 GMT
 <1992Nov12.133846.14559@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>   
 <1992Nov12.221002.24398@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <BxtwrB.ByD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <root.02w9@rkamiga.UUCP> <vmz1=g#@rpi.edu>

danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:

>The Amiga, on the other hand, uses it external to the drives. Which means you
>buy ONE controller card, and you can use SEVEN real SCSI drives...

With the Mac, you don't need a SCSI card, just plug the devices in.  Like
all SCSI, you can have 7 devices on the Mac.

>Multiple keyboards? Gee, I can see where THAT might be useful... 8)

More than you think.  It's already been useful for PowerBook users, who
can hook up a numeric keypad to their computers.  It's also possible to
hook up multiple input devices, like a mouse and a trackball.

>|> >I'm not sure about the video toaster, but it does have equivalent A-V
>|> >tools.  They probably do cost more, you're right.

>That is, from the latest information I've heard so far, patently NOT TRUE.
>Every computer has, at the top of its line, display options which meet and 
>surpass the Toaster's capabilities (yes, including the Amiga...), but NOTHING
>out there can (yet...) do all of the VIDEO (as opposed to display...) things
>that the Toaster can do!

You can get a Toaster for the Mac (though any Amiga owner knows that it's
just a Mac-controlled Amiga).

>The Toaster killers are coming... they will most likely be for the PC first,
>and will probably cost $4000-$10,000. That's all rumour, of course...

I wonder if  Radius' VideoVision for the Mac is one of these?
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:04:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Nov16.201334.23875@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

>
>Hah!  Shows how ignorant you are.  I happen to be typing this on an A4000
>with an A2065 Ethernet board, with the total price of said hardware much
>less than a comparable NeXT or Quadra.  As for expansion, I have three 
>Zorro III slots left, allowing for as much or more expansion than a Quadra
>700 or NeXTStation.  After adding an SVGA board, HD controller, and a 
>SoundBlaster Pro to my 486 at work, it only has three crummy ISA slots left.
>Horsepower?  Well, the 040 that is in the A4000 is the same one as in the
>Quadra 700 and NeXTStation and the Amiga is aided by the AGA chipset.  My
>486-50DX at work may have a bit more raw CPU power, but it is still acting
>like a brain-dead 8086 when running most software.

Are you running ethernet or TCP/IP.  To my knowledge, Amigas are not that
hot on TCP/IP networks.
>
>>3:  Please do not say that the amiga OS is as good as any other
>>    OS.  I have met the guru more times than I care to remember.
>
>That is usually due to the ignorance of the user more than anything else.
>My A3000 is typically up for days at a time running all sorts of software,
>including a near constant telnet session, ADPro, DPaint, emacs, mod players,
>and others.  My A4000 has been up since Friday and has guru'ed only when
>I tried to run a few EuroHacker demos.  Perhaps you should review what you
>are doing and maybe educate yourself in how to properly use an Amiga before
>you make such claims.

(This WAS my fault.  My friend's A2000 had a bad SCSI terminator, causing
lots of meditations.  As soon as I dropped in another the probs cleared
up.)

After looking at some A4000 stuff, I do like what they had on it.

Yes, I admit the previous post from me was a bit rabid, so sorry.

I was right, though about the Emplant.  The friend of mine who owned
it barely got it to the setup screen, so I am not truly wrong.



-- 
********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
                             ***********************************
You WANT your hard drive trashed now.
From: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!)
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:29:48 GMT
 <1992Nov15.014655.25724@cs.uow.edu.au> <84074@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Nov23.091951.10945@cs.uow.edu.au>

u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:

>The Mac still can't multitask.  It's OS is huge and still doesn't get much
>done.  You can have multiple applications open, but only one of them gets
>any processor time.  Backgrounded applications on the Mac aren't actually
>doing anything; they only wake up when you bring them to the front.

Oh, the Mac can't mutlitask?  Listen, don't be stupid and post
inaccuracies about the Mac in Mac advocacy.  The Mac can cooperative
mutlitask.  That's my my software is decompressing a file in the
background while I'm typing this...no, you don't have to "bring it to the
front" for it to do something.  All of them get processor time.  Maybe you
should use a Mac sometime instead of spreading lies about them.
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: The future of Apple
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:34 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Nov11.174856.6744@cuug.ab.ca>, wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 260-8100) writes:
>
> What's the value of a Mac going to be when a PowerPC that's twice as
> fast as a Quadra, half the price, and runs Mac software comes out?

Interesting set of qualifications. What makes you think it will be "half"
the price?

> Who wants a Powerbook when Newton is the flagship of Apple?

For people that want a portable computer, rather than a digital assistant.

> It looks like Apple has two future product lines, but the Mac
> isn't one of them.

You've overlooked two important things. 1) The PowerPC *IS* a Macintosh.
2) Newton isn't a computer (at least not in the conventional sense)

Sure, there's more diversity in the product line, but the market is 
maturing as well.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sculley considered for Clinton's Sec. of Commerce
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:24:56 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1689C14B4A.UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu> UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton) writes:
>Hmmmm. I think Clinton listed Apple as one of the companies that endorsed him.
>No, Im pretty sure...

Mark's .sig deleted

In one of Clinton's ads, the one with the people endorsing his
economic plan, John Sculley endorsed it.

-- 
********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
                             ***********************************
You WANT your hard drive trashed now.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:26:40 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Nov14.021715.28924@itsmail1.hamilton.edu>, jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes:
> In article <Cohena-131192125308@l30346.mdc.com> Cohena@mdc.com (Andy Cohen) writes:
>>My group has 2 Model 80 PS-2s and three Model 95s.....
>>
>>Worthless CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP!!!
> 
> My friend, it's a poor workman who blames his tools.  I've used both Mac
> and PCs and my preference is for the latter.  Even before I got "My
> First GUI" there was nothing a Mac user could do that I couldn't.  The
> wide variety of DOS programs was a real boon, too.  I suspect you just
> haven't really tried to make your PC's work.  If you don't want to,
> that's your business.  

You're right.

Users shouldn't expect their computers to just work out of the box. Every
user should become throughly familiar with all the hardware in his machine.
He should have read and memorized every manual before even approaching the
"On" switch. 

Indeed. Every computer user should be baptized in long hours of setup and
configuration before being blessed with any worthwhile computation.

These Mac users are soft. They can't possibly be getting any work done. 
Why, they don't have to struggle to get their applications to work. Useless.









<grin> -- for the extremely humour impaired.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2835 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29800