HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zwicky@erg.sri.com (Elizabeth Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: St. Cole Porter (was Re: Homoerotic bible quotes?)
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:10:03 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA

In article <1992Aug13.172313.15145@microsoft.com> frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
>In article <l8iqgfINNld@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>Paillettes are spangles.  Merman wore a dress *covered*
>>with bugle beads during that number. 

>Thanks for the correction and the information. One cannot
>know too much about spangles.

In that case, you would probably like to know that paillettes are a
particular type of spangle; they are, in fact, large, flat sequins. A
dress covered in bugle beads is not pailletted. Because paillettes are
large (in the 1 inch diameter range). a pailletted dress would be less
pretty and less expensive than one made with bugle beads. Webster's
New Collegiate claims that any old spangle is a paillette, but it was
probably compiled by people who believed that it was all too easy to
know too much about spangles, and didn't shop in the right catalogues.

	Elizabeth D. Zwicky
	zwicky@erg.sri.com
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:40:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug18.004052.7753
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

It's not Cl*t*n, it's the "After the Ball" gang.  Gack.

Of course he's "masculine"; he's clueless.  Isn't that the same thing?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:31:58 GMT

wbs@mred.llnl.gov (William B. Schaefer IV) writes:

>Violence associated with meat!  What about the violence associated with
>vegetarianism!  I mean isn't harvesting of vegetables actually a form of
>genocide?  Plants have consciousness too!  What about plant rights?!

>Green Power!  Green Power!

Hey, look, I've thought about this, really.  As a vegetarian, I still eat
chicken and fish and stuff occasionally, and in a pinch (i.e., forgetting to
order a vegeterian meal for the transfer portion of the flight back here) I'll
even eat incredibly gross things like black pudding.

I would have a lot of trouble eating something like a dog or a chimpanzee.
Yet I was able to eat escargot without any qualms at all.

I figure it's a sliding scale of association:  the more I can see something of
myself in another living creature, the less comfortable I am with killing or
eating it.  On this scale, dogs are too close for comfort:  they show loyalty,
love, fear, or at least I find I can easily anthropomorphize them that way.
Pigs and cows are a bit further away, but even fish, I guess, I would envision
as feeling pain in something at least slightly like the way I do.

Vegetables, OTOH, while they are (very) distant cousins, seem so alien to me
(no central nervous system, let alone a brain) that I just cannot identify
with them.  So I eat them quite happily.

>wbs

 joel

><sarcasm bit set to 1>

  willing to take the most sarcastic comments seriously on occaison  :- )
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:19:37 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) wrote:
>Nelson Minar writes:
>>ObDish: What's there in common between Sim Aberson and Robert Coren?
> 
>Nelson, you DO get around, don't you!  Such energy!  Such stamina!

Oh, my.  Yes, I suppose he is full of vim and vigor.  It truly would have
been nice to, um, spend more time with Nelson, but how could I 
possibly compete with the Mr. Born Erector when I was probably out
in some bars [thanks Roger.]

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: re: the voice
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: to the labs, people, to the labs!
Organization: gradually improving
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:24:55 GMT

i hate to be a wet-blanket *scientist* here, but people's *opinions*
as to what constitutes the gay voice are probably utterly worthless.
it's like asking people what constitutes a boston accent or a female
voice or black street speech.  ordinary people don't have a serviceable
conceptual world here; they literally do not know how to hear, and
they don't have appropriate terminology even for what they think they
do hear.  this is a matter for real laboratory research.

otherwise, we might as well be discussing our opinions about, say,
the fine structure of matter: well, i think it's all monads / no,
i'm *convinced* it's a lot of teeny tiny crystalline spheres / 
you're both wrong, it's a lot of formless mush / etc.etc.

arnold (who has learned to grit his teeth while listening to
         recordings of his voice, which is not The Voice, but
         something sort of martian)
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:10:20 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) wrote: 
->In article <92227.020856NAZ@auvm.american.edu> Naz Reyes 
-><NAZ@auvm.american.edu> writes:
->
->>If people would only
->>try to *really listen* and *really think* about what people are saying
->>and feeling there would be better understanding between all people in
->>the world.
->
->If people would only try to make themselves clear, consider how what they
->say might be perceived by other people, and eliminate ego from their
->postings, there would be better understanding between all people in the
->world. 

bless you, jack; you're a star.  

(his original posting made me think his *BIG* *THROBBING* *HEELS* were
too tight or something.  you know how these masculine butch boys are ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lost in Austin
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:42:48 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

sclark@ocf.berkeley.edu (Steven Clark) writes:

>me!). Austin is the self-proclaimed 'Live Music Capitol of the World'. 
>'Country-Rock-Blues-Guitar-Band Capitol of the World' would be more
>accurate. All the clubs are on 6th street, the Texan Bourbon Street.

Well, not really.  Although 6th street *is* compared to Bourbon St
in New Orleans, they are worlds apart.  Not even close.  And while
there are many clubs on 6th street with live music, most of the
"important clubs" are elsewhere.

>	So we're wandering around, realizing this is *not* where all the gay people hang out, and I spot this gorgeous twinkie. He's pretty butch but you just

No, 6th street is *not* where you want to be.  Next time try 4th and Colorado,
2nd and San Jacinto, and 7th and Red River.   But these are pretty close to
each other, and within easy walking distance of 6th street.

[ accounts of gay-baiting and harassment deleted ] 


>	I feel violated. Hunted. Unsafe in my own home. I feel like crawling
>into the closet, running away. I feel like fighting back but too weak
>and frightened and I don't know how. 
>	And my shrink is on vacation this week. 

I am really sorry that you encountered this in Austin, or anywhere
for that matter.  There *has* been an increase in gay-bashing and
assaults in Texas in recent years.  The really frightening thing is
that soemtimes these violent acts against us are done "for fun".

One of my coworkers admitted to me that when he was in high school here
in Austin, he and his friends would go down to 6th street and lure
"gay looking men" into alleyways ( with excuses like having car trouble,
or need a ride home, or outright sexual overtures) and then beat them
up, often with baseball bats.   The scary part is that they thought
nothing of it, they did it for something to do, "for fun".  

This made me incredibly angry.  If there was some way I could prosecute
him and his friends I would.  If there is any comfort to be take from
all this, this coworker has since become sorry for his past actions.
He had never known a gay person before, so all his impressions of us
were from stereotypes and prejudices from his friends.  My coming out
to him (coupled with a *severe* upbraiding) is turning him around. 


Sigh, what can I say.  The Austin I know and love is *not* 6th street.
I feel your pain, and hope you can return to Austin sometime to see
a more positive and beautiful place.  I'm not saying that we can ignore
things like the things that happened to you; we can't.  We *must* 
fight back in whatever way we know.

"Even in Utopia there is myopia"  - Honey (from Doonesbury)


-- 
Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
Motorola Austin / Eclectic Environs
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sweaty sex
Summary: *that* article?
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:18:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Aug20.031840.23408
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.

*that* article?!  cut it out, you guys, or i'll have to post
it.  (if there's now anyone left i haven't sent it to, word-slut
that i am.  ok, mike, i haven't sent it to you *yet*...)

more shameless true-life porn.  i'm never sure whether this is a
reasonable thing to post on soc.motss (though i certainly have
stretched the boundaries in the past; soc.motss got a nearly
day-by-day view of dino and me becoming lovers in 1989 [not 1987, as
in the typo in my deanery posting]).  on the other hand, i don't care
(once you've told tens of thousands of strangers around the world
about the details of your sexual experiences and fantasies, you're
delightfully free - as i said to The Dean, geoff, my long-time
collaborator, last year, i can't possibly be blackmailed *now*) and
jacques doesn't either, so long as he doesn't have to read what i say
(though sometimes he does; today he read my brief description of the
sweaty sex in the bathhouse steam room two saturdays ago, and kissed
me afterwards and said he loved me, though i know he liked dino's
mud-wrestling posting better; "i could really get into this
mud-wrestling stuff", he said, astonishing me - how nice!).

arnold (atypically indecisive)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sometimes...
Date: 22 Aug 1992 03:47:35 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug19.131946.38995@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY) writes:
->...I just want to smack members of the Het Set in my office.
->
->We have a pretty new temp for secretary today, so they're all hanging around,
->drooling and slobbering.  The comments are sometimes just this side of
->harrassment.  Hmph.  All of this blatant heterosexualism...  If I even acted
->REMOTELY like that there would be major seizures on the part of all and sundry,
->even those who "aren't bothered."
->
->[INSERT GAYS SHOULDN'T BE BLATANT TEXT HERE]

*sigh*

I've seen slobbering hets.

I've seen slobbering gays.  My best friend (one of the four, at least) is a
slobbering gay.

Faced with the choice, I'd rather see him ... it's much more fun.

(but hell ... I can agree with both :) ).

I personally think that slobbering in general is somewhat, oh, I dunno ...
icky <-- Now there's a word that should be regularly used on Usenet. 

Of course, that's just me ...

i dunno ... seems sortof objectifying ...

IMHO, of course.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy S. Rapoport					rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
Disclaimer:  "It wasn't me!! Must have been a fake posting or something!! I
              would NEVER say something like that!!"
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:35:39 GMT

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>I do not consider nelly behavior to be the person's natural personality.

Don't you think this is a very sweeping statement?

For the real biggie - and think this through totally: what if it is?
What if my behaviour, my voice, my moves, my swagger, my taste, my
speech feel as natural as the pink on the soles of my feet, and I would
feel amputated without them? What does this mean for your statetment that
'you should act less fem. so that straight society accepts us' ?

							FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Irish and Irish-American
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:56:59 GMT

In article <iris_leathair@vadier.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:

>If nothing else, it appears that the Irish-Irish are more tolerant
>than the Irish-Americans, or at least those of the latter that we hear
>about here.  

As a motsser whose grandfather was born and raised in Dublin, I can 
say that many Irish-Americans are quite tolerant.  It is important
to understand that on St. Patricks day everyone in the U.S. suddenly
everyone finds Irish ancestors.  



Shawn (whose father and grandfather had a great battle over the 
       spelling of his name.)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 21 Aug 1992 14:25:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <71486@apple.Apple.COM> 
mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:

> These rantings will be posted twice, and that's the way it goes, as
> I'm not in the mood to wait for our beloved goofy to start it's newsfeed
> yet once again.  

Oh, but you're rantings are so fabulous I don't mined that goofy has
problems starting it's newsfeed.

>                   This pompous, withered prune of an asshole is coddled
> entirely too much on this group.  ....

Heavens.

> But one thing we will do - Lord Arne - and one thing that shall earn us
> the undying gratitude of generations to come (and the envy of that
> generation which proceeded your own, and which was the first to get
> grapped on by your Boom Fuck legions):

Grapped on?

> We're going to bury you.

Such a sweet little boy.

> If my opinions we're Apple's, I'd be driving a shiny car, too.

Ah, I see.

Arne, still puzzled by the vitriol


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: Request for Information (was: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:53:19 GMT

johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) :
: >My one question now is: what's HWP?  The phrase turns up
: >in a lot of the ads.
: 
: Hung White Professional?
: Hulas With Panda-bears?
: Hopeless With Pastels?
: Hateful Walrus Prod?
: Hippy With Pad?
: 

How about *HUGE* *WHITE* *PUMPS*?


Kathy
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 08:30:46 GMT


In article <1992Aug23.050016.19295@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>Hmm. . . Well, my best shot at an answer.

<ding!>  Too little, too late, you still flunk.

>I view drag & leather as forms of sexual fantasy &
>escapism.  There's nothing wrong with it; (as such),

What *prowess* of mind!  What scope!  What breathtakingly
*penetrating* analysis!  What a sense of righteousness!
Dear *me*, this is*such* a thrill, being in the presence of
your Big Butch Mind!

>I have been in leather bars where guys dress as cops, or drill 
>sergeants, or whatever.

Ohmygod!  Not *men*, I hope.   Perish the thought!  You
must have been *quivering* in every fiber!  Golll-ee.

>They're not really any of these things; it's just a tool to
>enhance the moment; sexual role-acting.

As a tool to enhance the moment, you're a total bore, dear.
*Do* wise up to yourself.

>Check out "Men on Film" from the TV comedy show, "In Living
>Color"; the copycats for that are endless.

!niagA  .sdrawkcab ti evah uoY

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Huntsville? Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:49:31 GMT

In article <l982fnINNjbj@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) 
writes:

>I feel faint~~~
             ^^^
             |||  A touch of the vapors?

Katie
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sexual attraction
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:46:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug13.234601.10963
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug13.222414.3220@osf.org> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>Another whole aspect of sexual attraction, which I was going to talk
>about before this got so long, is the curious phenomenon I
>occasionally observe of "electronic attraction"; people feeling
>attracted to other people they've never met or seen, on the basis of
>reading their writings and/or exchanging mail. But I'll save that for
>another time.

This is well worth exploring.  Let me help by describing its inverse in
a way: having developed a great respect for a motsser just from reading
his articles, I wrote him, and we started a rather nice, platonic
correspondence.  (Not all that frequent or intense; both of us are
rather busy, but often enough that we consider ourselves friends, and
look forward to the correspondence.)  Imagine my reaction when I first
hear a description of him and then see a photo, and find that he's so
much one of my "types" that it makes me dizzy.  When I finally met him
in person, there was this constant tension between my gray matter and
my groin: his visage was flouting the categories I'd already placed him
in, plus, what we enjoyed talking about had nothing to do with sex
(well, at least with each other. :-))  You could probably make a good
lavender-colored Henry Jamesian movie out of this (just add imagination).

>Robert [who feels like he's doing a very bad imitation of Arnold]

SOMEONE has to take up the slack when school starts again. :-)
But since I can hear your voice when you write, this seems very
Robert-like to me.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Discipl(in)e
Date: 14 Aug 92 04:35:46 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Aug13.000301.19371@macc.wisc.edu>
	<1992Aug13.042338.24987@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Deputy GKK) writes:
# georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
# >Dammit, I want to be punished only by Grandmama KKruella herself.
# >No substitutes will do.
#
# It is *TERRIBLY* *WICKED* to refer to Deputy GKK as
# "substitute."  We are not a substitute; we are the Deputy.

We ARE the Deputy?  You mean there's more than one of you?
That explains how you manage to post so much.

# >Oops, I've defied Grandmama and her deputy.  That deserves
# >punishment---from both of them.  I'm just asking for it, amn't I.
#
# Grandmama and I are too busy to discuss this beforehand, but
# I'll expect you to report here for your initial workover.
# If GKK feels you need further discipline (and I have
# strong suspicion she will), she will summon you.

Hmmm, well, if there's more than one of you deputies,
I might go to you first with a good grace.

But, wait, ...

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Grandmama KKruella) writes:
) Your *WICKEDNESS* is too *GREAT* to be trusted to a deputy.
) *REPENT* of your *EVIL*!

<Swoon>  Personal attention from Grandmama!  At last!
No more substitutes for me!

Er, Grandmama, I'm not sure how I pented of my evil the
last time, so I don't think I can do it again.  Please,
please, show me how, as a special treat.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: a queer card from the state of ohio
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:24:29 GMT

Arnold M Zwicky (amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
> in article <BtB3sD.Gs8@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (mike drayton) writes:
>   [my question about a real-life "queer card"]
> 
> if you believe everything you hear when people are jes' shittin' at
> work (or worse, at play), you will have a very difficult life.
-----------
Maybe I would have known whether he'd been "jes' shittin'" had I 
accompanied him on one of his frequent trips to the roof of the 
building to "powder his ass" (he complained of hemmorhoids).

> re-framing mike's question: was there a gay organization - gaa? - in
> l.a. in 1973 with members so in-your-face they carried membership
> cards?  (of any color - who knows why someone might pick out the
> color yellow?)  and, oooh, flaunted them?

That was _exactly_ the question I had in mind.  Thanks.

Mike Drayton
mdrayton@sr.hp.com  (Hewlett-Packard Co., Santa Rosa, CA)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 19 Aug 1992 12:41:43 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug19.173243.21333@macc.wisc.edu> 
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> How about kindly queens of the worst viciousness?

You rang?

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss