HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy))
Subject: Re: Using Imake WITHOUT the mit Source Tree
In-reply-to: atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil's message of 9 Sep 92 11:53:13 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Organization: Department of Physics, UC Irvine, CA 92717-4575, USA
Distribution: usa
	<3543@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:23:55 GMT

Let's hope that the people in Corvallis read your diatribe, and took
steps to have a correct hp.cf and xmkmf, etc scripts installed in the
right places! It really takes a completely inexperienced person about
35 minutes to install these, including rewriting the unconventional
-I paths. 
I think HP-s HP-UX and X development groups may want to take a look at
the elegant way in which David Gillespie's Gnu-emacs calc program
installs itself, finds its own search paths on the users machine, and
produces a printable manual without having to touch a key after
un-taring it.

And while I am on the subject: PLEASE INCLUDE AN UNSUPPORTED 
HUGE UNOFFICIAL EMACS (PREFERABLY 19) WITH HP-UX 9.0.  Darryl Okahata,
Andy Norman and others at HP have produced one of the most useful
Emacses and in day and age I can't imagine  a workstation without it. 
Even NeXT comes with Emacs and TeX installed!
--
Hardy 
-----
Meinhard E. Mayer,  Department of Physics, UC Irvine 
e-mail: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (preferred) or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: maklinm@cognos.com (Maxwell Maklin)
Subject: Re: HP's elm loses messages
Keywords: HP elm bug
Organization: Cognos Incorporated, Ottawa CANADA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:13:12 GMT

In article <BuBCs1.Ltp@ie.utoronto.ca> andy@ie.utoronto.ca (Andy Sun) writes:
>
>I recently installed ELM version 2.3.11 to replace the HP one. It seems
>to work fine so far. At first I thought this version doesn't support
>the HP console softkeys, but someone told me that it does work, provided
>that you enabled the softkey variable in .elmrc. BTW, ELM version 2.3.11
>will compile painlessly under HPUX 8.05.

I am running Elm2.3PL11 on my 720 (just installed courtesy of IWORKS)
and have not been able to get it running even by setting these paramters
in elmrc in .elm.  In fact there is even a -K option when invoking elm
to enable it from the command line and even from a hpterm under Vue does
not work.  What am I missing?

Max
>
>Andy
>-- 
>Andy Sun (andy@ie.utoronto.ca)		4 Taddle Creek Road, Toronto
>Computing Coordinator			Ontario, Canada. M5S 1A4
>Department of Industrial Engineering	Phone: (416) 978-2920
>University of Toronto			Fax:   (416) 978-3453


-- 
Max Maklin               Phone: (613) 738-1338 x3480      P.O. Box 9707
Cognos Incorporated      Fax: (613) 738-0002              3755 Riverside Drive
UUNet: maklinm@cognos.UUCP   		                  Ottawa, Ontario
Internet: maklinm@cognos.com		                  CANADA   K1G 3Z4
From: chuckm@hpunsca.canada.hp.com (Chuck Munro)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:00:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Open system are Illegal (was net.views -- which vendor is the most open?)
Organization: H-P Canada Ltd., Dartmouth, N.S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp


> Actually, IBM seems to qualtify for both spots. Some parts of IBM are
> committed to open systems and others are against it. That is the problem
> with having a very large corporation.

----------

Y'know, it's pretty amazing when you look at "commitment to open systems"
from *within* HP as an employee.  In my 14 years with this company, I've
witnessed a complete turn-around in attitude about this subject, not just
from the workstation folks but within the ENTIRE company ....  Computers,
Test & Measurement, Analytical, Medical, etc.

Although there are still some older, non-open (or less-open) products in
our catalogs, there seems to be a REAL commitment within all divisions
of the company to migrate products to "openness" as soon as resources
permit.  This won't be easy or lightning-fast, but I'll bet it will get
done.

You'd have thought a company the size of HP (90,000+ people) would be
suffering a bit from the IBM-ish problem stated above.  I'm inclined to
think that this move to "open" began happening before our computer, etc.,
businesses got too big to make the turn-around.   It's been slow, and a
bit painful, but it's happening.

The really encouraging thing is that you can smell "open systems" in the
air just about everywhere you go within HP.  People I talk with seem to
be thinking "open" because they really believe in it, NOT because they've
been told to by upper management.   The mindset has taken hold top to
bottom.  One example is HP's presence on almost all of the standards
committees around the world.

The only thing that bothers me a little bit is HP's rather slave-ish
adherence to the published standards, even if it means deleting things
that other vendors leave in (because users have gotten used to them).

Some folks also pan us a bit because some goodies not defined by any
standards documents are just not there.  This conservative attitude is
an HP legacy, and will take a while to change.  Please have patience!
We're learning.

Now, if we could only afford enough talented people to make it happen a
lot faster (*sigh*).

Chuck.    Speaking for me, not HP.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: mbk@netcom.com (Miles Kehoe)
Subject: Looking for HP3000 hardware/software help 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 22:21:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Summary: Looking for help setting up an old hp3k
Keywords: HP 3000 CE

I just got a deal on an hp3000 series 30 - I know, who wants
to use MPE now that Unix is the way to go.. ah well, perhaps.
Still, I couldn't say no at the price.

So.. now I have an hp3000 in my garage, in pieces and very dusty.
I don't mind plugging in parts and cables, or even dusting/cleaning
curcuit boards, but I'm a bit leary about things like the
disk drives (7925 and 7933 I believe) and ther dust. 

Is there a former hp CE in the area, or a TSE/SE, or anyone who is
good with computer hardware, who would be willing to help out
for beer, chips, burgers and maybe a disk drive? (Not to meniton
free hp3000 access via modem!)

If you are in the area and want to help out, give me a yell. I'm
at mbk@netcom.com. Also, if you have this burning desire to use
time on an hp3000, let me know!

Finally..... anyone have an old 2645 terminal you'd part with
for 2 digit or price!?

Miles

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: system@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (System Admin (Mike Peterson))
Subject: Re: Shared CD-ROM drive
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:14:48 GMT

>Wong Siu To (a866700@hp9000.csc.cuhk.hk) wrote:
>: 
>: I've a CD-ROM drive on a hp720, and have another hp750 without CD-ROM
>: drive.  I wonder if I can use that drive to install software (including
>: HP-UX) and run LaserROM on the hp750.

Yes to both. I assume you have the HIL module that is supposed to sit
in the keyboard cable. The trick is to shut down the system where the
software is to be installed (NOT where the CD-ROM drive is attached),
insert the HIL, reboot and mount the CD-ROM drive by NFS. When you are
done, shut down and remove the HIL module, so it is available for what
ever system needs it next.
This information was provided by HP at the InterWorks meeting, after 
calls to the Response Center said it couldn't be done (and assurances
from our sales rep when we bought the systems that this worked, but no
one locally knew how to do it when we got our systems).

You can use LaserROM on a NFS-mounted CD-ROM just fine. You need to add
a "/etc/mount -a -t cdfs -v" in '/etc/rc' to force the CD-ROM to be
mounted on the system where it is attached.
-- 
What are the chances that any computer system will ever "work" properly?
... and Slim just left town. -*- Mike Peterson, SysAdmin, U/Toronto Chemistry
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: tmike@cmptrc.lonestar.org (T. Mike Howeth)
Subject: Re: HP's elm loses messages
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:31:58 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX
Keywords: HP elm bug

In article <1992Sep9.132611.164480@dstos3.dsto.gov.au> vaughan@ewd.dsto.gov.au (Vaughan Clarkson) writes:
|We are encountering an insidious bug in HP's implementation of elm (the default
|mailer on our system).  It seems that if, after editing a message for delivery,
|you hit the 's' button (for send), and then quit immediately, the mail never
|gets sent even though the messages 'Sending mail...' and then 'Mail sent!'
|appear to comfort the user.
|

I am running an 837 on 8.02 with about 38 users (all of whom use elm) and have 
not, thankfully, experienced this problem.  I will TRY to duplicate, and 
apprise you of my success.
(BTW: elm isn't a mailer, just a user agent.  The default mailer is 
sendmail (blows), HP's version of which has a completely different set of 
problems). :)

-- 
tmike@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                               __
"Whoever said 'getting there is half the fun'                           \/
    has never ridden in a class 8 probe!" - K'Ehleyr
From: mobej@thaad-1g%hac2arpa.hac.com (Mario Obejas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Justifying more memory
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:17:16 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I will be starting a new project shortly where the applications will be
developed and targeted for HP 720s. The lang is straight K&R C and they intend
on using Vue with Softbench installed. 

The units currently have 16MB RAM, the work group leader wnats to expand to a
minimum 32MB but the management wants more justification than "HP recommends a
minimum 16 with 32 optimal". So she has asked me to try and find a way to
justify 32MB to the management. 

OK. What she tells me is that I can pretty much count on all the HP nodes being
used by a single user at a time. She's not sure what other applications/tools
will be run concurrently other than Vuewm, Softbench, and user utilities but
there are no others planned at this time.

I'm not sure that given this environment there is enough to justify the
additional memory. If I were to run another resource hog application such as
Framemaker, Caseware/Cm, or another CASE tool, perhaps the need for 32 MB RAM
would exist. But again, only concurrent Vue, Softbench, and C compilation/debug
sessions sessions are the sure thing initiated by one user. I've looked for
performance briefs, but the best I have found is the performance brief
regarding the 700RX stations (which stated that host RAM is more important than
LAN X traffic!).

Is 16 MB sufficient/insufficient here? What's the net.experience?

Email or posting is welcome. Thanks for reading this far down.

--
Mario Obejas    mobej@thaad-1g.hac.com    (714) 732 2954
                mobej@thaad-1g@hac2arpa.hac.com   if the above doesn't work
Hughes Aircraft 676/Z341, P.O. Box 3310, Fullerton, CA 92634
ex-THAAD sysadmin: will work for food or Internet address
Disclaimer: my opinions are mine, not necessarily my employer's.
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:28:03 GMT
Subject: Re: HP-UX compiler options
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp

In comp.sys.hp, cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

> Recently, I tried to install 'flea' program on my HP720 machine to convert
> magic layout to varies printer files. Since 'flea' was written for Sun OS,
> there is one compiler option didn't work on HP720. Can any one give me some
> help. THe option is '-lc' to load libraries routines to 'cc'. When I
> include this option, the compiler said that lots of system routines cannot
> be found. If I remove this option, it compiles

I'm not sure why "-lc" was being explicitly added to "cc" option list in the
SunOS makefile; Sun's C compiler, like HP's, automatically knows to search the
system libraries.  Most likely the option was not needed on SunOS, either.

I can make a guess as to why adding the option to the HP "cc" command line
produced problems - the 700 linker probably knows not to search a shared
library twice, so it searched the library only when you told it to, and not
at the end where it normally does by default.  That is, normally a command like

	cc *.o

gets translated into

	ld ... *.o ... -lc

so the library is searched *after* the .o's.  You probably did something like

	cc -lc *.o

which got translated into

	ld ... -lc *.o ... -lc

and the linker then ignored the second "-lc"; unfortunately, it didn't get
everything it needed out of the library because you searched it before any
.o's.  This is my best guess given the information you've given me so far.
Actually, it seems unlikely to me that the 700 linker would have complained
about the unresolved symbols even in this case, so I may be off base.  Please
post the full command lines you tried, and the exact text of the error messages
you got.

> but the executable code
> doesn't work completely. It did convert magic layout to Postcript files but
> the laser printer only prints blank page.

I still suspect that removing "-lc" was the right thing to do.  If the code
doesn't seem to work right, you probably need to look elsewhere - perhaps it
is not configured correctly for the printer you are using (most HP laser
printers do not speak Postscript by default).

--------------
Marc Sabatella (marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com)
Disclaimers:
	2 + 2 = 3, for suitably small values of 2
	Bill (H.) and Dave (P.) may not always agree with me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: mccoy@cs.iastate.edu (Chris McCoy)
Subject: Re: Strange problems with /bin/ksh as login shell
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:22:33 GMT

ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein) writes:

>> Has anyone a guess (maybe a reference) for this shell behaviour?

>One other place I've seen it is when the user's home directory is
>NFS-mounted and the server is having problems, or perhaps statd or lockd
>is dead or looping.  You might try killing those RPC processes and
>restarting them?

Yes, this rings a bell.  We had this same problem here a couple
of months back.  Turned out to be a timing problem with NFS between
our Suns and HPs.  We were running both 8.05 and 8.07 at the time.
I may be mistaken, but it seems like there was a patch available
for this -- we've applied so many I can't remember that far back.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Chris McCoy, Systems Support Group  : INTERNET  mccoy@iastate.edu
Computer Science Department         : FAX       (515) 294-0258
Iowa State University               : VOICE     (515) 294-7214
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
--
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Chris McCoy                         : INTERNET  mccoy@cs.iastate.edu
Computer Science Department         : FAX	(515) 294-0258
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: dieh1232@w251zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Rolf Diehl)
Subject: 9000/345:f77 depends on fileset C ??
Organization: ZRZ der TU-Berlin
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:40:10 GMT

Hi,
I got my 9000/345 with hpux 7.0 and within the support contract we got an 
upgrade to 8.0. This upgrade only contained the fileset C_min. When I upgraded
the fortran compiler to 8.0 the installer complained, that the filetset
depends on fileset C which is missing. Does anybody know what effect the
missing fileset C will have? Do I have to buy C?
Any hints apprteciated. thanks  rolf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rolf Diehl, TU Berlin		email:  dieh1232@files1zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: lane@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Christopher Lane)
Subject: VUE login problem
Reply-To: lane@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Christopher Lane)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:08:30 GMT

We've an intermittent problem with logging into our HP 720's.  The VUE login
manager accepts the password, goes to the 'copyright' screen, and then after
a long wait, puts up a panel with the following:

	The session manager is unable to start the HP VUE messaging system.

	For details on how to correct the problem, contact your system
	administrator, or refer to the HP VUE System Administration Manual.

	To start a single ...

I'm the 'system administrator' and I haven't a clue what's going wrong and
the manual mentioned didn't come with the system!  The problem seems to occur
in about 25% to 50% of the attempts to login.  It occurs on all of our systems
and generally goes away in an hour or so.  Rebooting doesn't always help.
We've a fairly standard configuration with user accounts being made available
to the HP via NFS and YP/NIS and HPUX 8.05 on the internal disk.

I'd appreciate any insight into this situation,

- Christopher
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms
From: larryd@harp.bnr.ca (Larry Dunkelman)
Subject: Re: Allowing DecServer terminals to use HP9000's
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 03:28:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.190051.1587@candle.uucp> root@candle.uucp (Bruce Momjian) writes:
>A VMS system has over 200 terminals connected via DecServer200/300/500's
>to a VAX/VMS system using LAT over ethernet.  They are adding an HP9000
>system running HP-UX and want to know the best way to allow those
>terminals to use the HP and VMS systems.

For terminals connected to DS300s, you should be able to use TCP/IP (Telnet)
to connect to the HP (if my memory serves me correctly).  I know that the 
DS200s don't support TCP/IP (only LAT). I am not sure about the 500s but my
guess is that they are similar to the 300s.

For your LAT only terminal servers, you have a few options:

1. Buy a product such as KiNet (from Ki Research) which implements LAT/CTERM
   on a wide variety of platforms including HP.  This will enable you to 
   fully integrate your new HP into the VMS environment (DECnet, etc.)

2. If your VMS systems support TCP/IP, then you can run a LAT/Telnet gateway
   allowing you to connect to the VMS system with LAT, and then passthrough
   to the HP using TCP/IP.  I am not sure if VMS has this capability (I know
   that it exists on ULTRIX)

3. Install a box on your network which will perform protocol conversion 
   between LAT and Telnet.  I believe Datability makes such a box.


Larry
larryd@bnr.ca
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Strange problems with /bin/ksh as login shell
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:01:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> Has anyone a guess (maybe a reference) for this shell behaviour?

One other place I've seen it is when the user's home directory is
NFS-mounted and the server is having problems, or perhaps statd or lockd
is dead or looping.  You might try killing those RPC processes and
restarting them?
Xref: sparky comp.sys.hp:10231 comp.os.msdos.desqview:2984
From: nickw@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nick Watkins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.os.msdos.desqview
Subject: QEMMM and HP Vectra QS/20
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:48:18 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

I have an HP Vectra QS/20 which only partially stealths using QEMM 6.03.
My current qemm line is 
device=c:\qemm\qemm386.sys r:1 RAM  i=b100-b7ff x=dc00-dcff
rom=c000-c7ff rom=f000-ffff i=f100-f3ff x=9f00-9fff st:m xst=f000

which apart from the exlude at dc000 for an adaptec scsi card is governed
by the HP. Does anybody know 

i) why the QS/20 doesn't stealth completely

ii) if new roms might help

iii) why I can't  drop exclude at 9f000 if I use a microsoft mouse.
I tried disabling HP-HIL and doing this but although keyboard still
worked fine, Windows 3.1 would crash on exit.  Does anyone have a
better qemm line &/or b an accurate memory map for the Vectra. 

One other mystery is what is at b000-b0ff
-- 
Dr Nick Watkins, Space Plasma Physics, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QH, UK
JANET: nickw@uk.ac.sussex.syma        BITNET: nickw%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac
From: vic@class.gsfc.nasa.gov (James V. Ryan (Vic))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: table of libary locations
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:39:10 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center


  I must make a apology here for not making it clear what I was looking
in a couple of my past posts and what I think a few other are also wanting.
  What I desire is something like a simple chart/listing of where things 
should live in the HP Unix World. Such as:
Example:

\ 
   \ where     orginal development         Recommended location on
s/w   \        System.............         HP system..............
libs..   \     (nice to know info)         (need to know info)
            \_____________________________________________________
libX11.a     | /????/????/????             /usr/lib/X11R4/libX11.a 
libXau._     | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXaw._     | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXdmcp._   | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXext._    | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXmu._     | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXt._      | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
libXw._      | ________________________    /usr/?????/?????/????
Imake.rules  | ________________________    /usr/local/imake/Imake.rules
Imake.tmpl   | ________________________    /usr/local/imake/Imake.tmpl
hp.cf        | ________________________    /usr/local/imake/hp.c
site.def     | ________________________    /usr/local/imake/site.def


I have these files, I just don't know where to put them or how to
edit the imake template files to use them once I find a home for 
them.

(Dreaming)
I would like the locations to be compatible with the locations that
HP would be using IF they were(?) to be supplying them with 9.0 as
I'm sure they will (must have been a oversight in 8.0) ;-)

Where to get information on imake and how to use/customize it.
(Is there REALLY a manual for imake??????).  I would be more than
happy to edit the imake related files for my system if I knew what
I was doing while I was doing it.

Would be nice for other stuff like:
required files for  tcl  usage and where they should live.
required files for  various toolkits and where they should live.
required files for  various widget libs and where they should live.

I feel that info like this should be in a FAQ list for comp.sys.hp,
I am hoping the someone that is HP knowledgeable is working on one
and will post it soon.

Sorry to keep bothering ya all, Vic

--James V. Ryan                           vic@class.gsfc.nasa.gov
  Code 530.2, Bldg. 25                    Phone 301-286-4841
  Goddard Space Flight Center             Fax   301-286-4355
  Greenbelt, MD  20771
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,gnu.emacs.help