From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Refugee Martynov (was: Communism as a Russian guilt)
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:50:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


  
  
In article <1992Dec22.115542.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
>In article <102844@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

>  My situation
>was under a category "bednye rodstvenniki", which was "created" by a stupid
>law about some peace of paper from relatives, staying there, that I don't have
>any financial obligations toward them.  This "law" was created after 1986, 
>to stop at least a part of emigrants, because the autority couldn't use
>their "old tricks" any more.

  I was not able to comprehend this part of your story.
  It's kinda tough to imagine a "poor boy" who has
  financial obligations towards relatives abroad.
  I guess, it must be vice versa.
  However, the law itself is not stupid and, I beleive,
  was initiated by the country of invitation in order
  to stop the huge flow of emigrants who have no income.
  
  In case if an invitation, the person who invites you 
  must - and it's reasonable - sign a paper that you will
  be taken care of - he/she even obliged to pay your medical
  bills.

>In my case, my "father" (whom I'd never seen, because my parents divorced
>before my birthday) didn't want to sign any papers, that's why we received
>refuse from OVIR to emigrate in Israel. 
  
   Blame your father then, not OVIR. Don't you see that
   OVIR and embassies have splited the job. 
   OVIR is a rough filter, embassies - the fine ones.
   There is no country in the world which likes to
   accomodate people who can do nothing but eat.

>The problem is that I spent a huge amount of time near the embassy in the
>very lines you are talking about.  It was only a back door to the States, but
>not to the embassy. 

  Even better.  But still a back door. And, btw, you mention
  that the invitation you've got in 88 was from Israel. 
  I can't beleive it should have been approved by the 
  US Ambassador.

> Is it enough to mention that our family spent 11 hours
>in embassy, waiting for interview?

  Yah, sure, I feel pity for you. I'm even starting to hate
  those people who were in the same line with you.

>May be in Russia it calls "hitrozhopyi", but I don't feel myself one of 
>them.  We got "vyzov" to Israel in the beginning of 1988 and emigrated in
>Dec. 1990.  

  Feel yourself whoever you want to feel. BTW, don't you think
  you took the wrong airplane?

>Pardon me, but in this Pennsylvanian hole I know some guy, who
>worked in Stalin's camps, yet, he got the very same status as I did only 
>because they had their interview on Aug.19, last year.

 Sure, he  is a political dissident. I'm not sure what you 
 opposed back in 89, when, btw, comsomol organization in the
 institute I worked for was dissolved, but the Stalin soldier
 sertainly had something to be afraid of.  If the US gave a 
 roof to some SS soldiers after WWII, why are you surprized
 when it gives a roof to a Stalin guardsman? 

>  The worst think is,
>that I know a lot of people, who are eventually friends of mine, who cannot
>emigrate for 3-4 years, although they have relatives in the States.
 
 What is the worst thing? That you know a lot of people? Or 
 that they cannot emigrate? Assuming the latter I'd say that
 in many instances the barier for emigrants is built up by 
 the US rather than Russia.  Why would a country want an 
 emigrant who, having come, will be sitting on a wellfare for
 a while? 


>Ia ne pytaius' primazat'sia k slave, but I don't like your attitude toward
>refuseniks.

  It is simple. You want a better life - take it. 
  Don't tell me that you're an "innocent martyr".
  Take a responsibility for your actions, and don't
  blame others for own faults. 
  Isn't that simple?


>>> I remember a demonstration near Lenin's library in
>>>Moscow, which was surrounded by journalists from the States. 

>>   Incidently, I remember it too. Passed by in a car. What can I say,
>>   stupid slogans - bunch of morons want to emigrate, da i hui s nimi.
>>   No threat from police forces, though.
 
>Bullshit!  May there was no militia there, but there were "black berets", OMON.
>A half of our group spent 5 days in prison.

 Wow !!! The whole 5 (five!!!) days?!!??  Without moms??
 The OMON must have screwed up the law - it's a felony
 offence. They should have put all of you in a jail for 
 15 days, according to the law, since your demonstration
 was not permitted by authorities.


>That's exactly my point.  I was refusenik, and it helped me to become refugee.
>Just read carefully next time what people have to say and don't paraphrase
>them.

  You have nothing to say. That's the point.

>Honestly, I don't really care, whether you consider me as one of refusenik or
>not.  This is exactly the point why we didn't care about opinion of people
>(like you, for instance).  Zhaba zadavila, tak i skazhi.

 Honestly I don't care whether you are a refusenik or not.
 Sam na rozhon polez. The original point was (in my reply
 to Kosinovsky) that people in Russia, who never had any
 intention to emigrate (as myself) would not care about
 so called refuseniks, but rather calls to "Russia soul"
 from Russian nationalists would be understood better. But
 it's another topic.
 
 Somehow you desided that you must advertise yourself as
 being a refusenik, although nobody asked you for it.  
 Vlez v razgovor, ne ponimaja o chem idet rech', i polucil
 po-nosu, in other words.
 
 Pro zhabu. I'm not very familiar with that kind of slang
 -- it was not used in my childhood yet. But my inherental
 intelligence tells me that it's about being envious of your
 success.  I'll tell you, boy, not everybody wants to emigrate,
 some people like to travel. And I tell you one more thing 
 -- I haven't spent a single minute neither in OVIR nor in the
 US Embassy. Did I make you jealous?

>Oh yes, sure, it is easy now to blame me that I live here and that I got the
>status back in 1990,

  Who blames you? Moreover - who cares? You've chosen your
  life, what do you want me to do - sympathyze for your 
  troubles?  At least you story about brave demonstrants
  back in  - no,no, not in 1968 - in 1989 (!) is screaming for
  that. The tearful story about little boys threatened by 
  "djaden'ka militsioner".
  
  No, boy, I do not sympathyze you for a very simple reason
  -- you are not a dissident - i.e. "otkaznik", but a simple
  economical refugee.  However, I have no intention to condemn
  you for that, the only reason I replied was your stupid story
  about the demonstration.
  

> yet I wonder, what would be your opinion, watching us
>literally ESCAPING from the damn country, living behind everything that we 
>ever had.

  No opinion, it was *your* choice. Remember, I grew up and 
  lived in the same country you did. For some reason you didn't
  like it - not enough food in stores and such (don't tell me
  about political opression in '89) - it is *your* problem.
  You want to leave the country, find more comfortable life
   - do it, whatever it takes, tell the story about your 
  willingness to share all troubles of your natural motherland
  and then apear on the East coast of the US - ponjatnoe delo,
  vse bilety do Tel'-Aviva raskupili i ostalis' tol'ko do New 
  Yorka - nu i vprjam' ne vozvraschat'sja zhe v Moskvu, v samom
  dele.
  Why do you ask for sympathy (sochustvie)?

>  As a good example, I'd like to mention, that, out of 3 section with
>mathematical books, which I had in my apartments, I brought here only one,
>which was so small, that I could put it in my pocket.

  I don't understand. Didn't you have two 24 kg (I had actually 36)
  FREE places of luggage per ticket?  Now, what are you screaming 
  about? Not enough, I guess. Why didn't you pay for additional 
  luggage? Ah, didn't have money, did you?
  

>>>Michael Martynov.
 

>P.S.  One of the things, which I'll never forget the S.U., was the death of
>my grandfather, who could live longer if he was here in 1989. 

  Which basicaly means that you are an economical runner. And
  your demonstration has nothing - and couldn't have in 1989 -
  to do with politics. The fact that you were not given an exit
  visa for economical reasons - nobody wanted to pay your bills-
  doesn't make you a political refugee - "otkaznik".

> Unfortunately,
>Soviet medicine has no idea how to fight blood-cancer, and he died less then
>in a month after our interview in embassy...

  Which one has, tell me. I'm working in a medical center which deals
  with cancer, but haven't heard about any success in treating a blood
  cancer.

  S.B.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe