HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Doing Justly (Was Re: Irony continues in our history)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:33:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Stephen Saroff distorts my message to support his position. I pointed
out that his adducing the precept "do justly" doesn't apply to
the situation because we're not "doing unjustly." He then raises Chamberlain.
That's nonsense. The point is correct; do justly is not an argument
for Jews intervening. There may be many other good ones, but "do justly"
isn't one of them.

Then he distorts my second point; that unless there's massive public
education and social pressure, anti-semites tend to raise anti-semitic
children. Again, this point is to refute the notion that the anti-semitic
character of many Croats just a few years ago has nothing to do with
their children. I guess I have to spell it out for Saroff: since
there has been no such campaign in Croatia, it's likely that many Croats
are still anti-semites.

Saroff blows that simple point, made in a narrow context, into a
farrago of comments about "all of Europe" and about supporting
the anti-Solidarnosc Soviets. Again, that's a nonsense--we may
have perfectly good reasons for supporting the Croats/Muslims,
but that they're guiltless philo-semites isn't one of them.

David
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: become jewish ?
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:45:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.143817.11555@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>5) I have been told by religious Iraqi and Syrian Jews that
>I am not really a Jew

Upon what grounds?

--Mark
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
Keywords: ISRAEL CLINTON BOOR ARKIE SLICK-WILLY
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:39:12 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <1992Aug17.161037.2794@bony1.bony.com> stevef@bony1.bony.com (Steve Faiwiszewski) writes:
>
>Not that I want to start a political flame, but where have you been
>for the last 4 years????  Bush will be better for the economy than
>Clinton???  Have you had your head buried somewhere?  Have you


Yep, most definitely.  Clinton's plans for economic revival are absurd.  And 
his running mate is a knucklehead.  

Clinton doesn't offer anything new, and in fact offers many things that have
proven historically bad for the economy.  Raising taxes on corporations will
enhance the economy and help create new jobs?  Yeah.. that's a GREAT concept.


-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Reform law versus guidelines
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:36:31 GMT

In article <56991@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

Quoting me:

>>I completely fail to understand Herman's post.  Far from disagreeing with
>>me, he seems to be confirming exactly what I said, which was that the ONE
>>reason for observing kashrut which the Reform will NOT accept is: G-d said
>>to.
>
>I suggest you read the words I wrote.  You are correct in saying that at
>least some Reform Jews are unwilling to accept that these are the words 
>of God.  I do not consider it surprising; one has to reconcile the words
>of the Torah with the words of the Torah and the evidence which God has
>left for our eyes in the bodies of the animals and the fossils in the
>rocks.
>
>I personally cannot accept that God commanded that these precise words
>be written.  I am willing to concede that at least most who produced the
>words believed them to be the words of God, but that does not make them
>the words of God.
>-- 

I reread the original post and I still don't understand what the area of
disagreement is.  Herman says he doesn't believe that G-d commanded the
words which appear in Vayikra 11.  I said that, not only is Herman's view
consistant with standard Reform theology, it IS standard Reform theology.

The rabbi in Denver gave a long list of reasons which might justify a
Reform Jew observing kashrut.  His point was that there exists ONE reason
which, from a Reform viewpoint, was NOT legitimate.  "G-d said" or "The
torah said" is the one reason inconsistant with Reform.

In other words, disagreeing with Herman on this point is not a valid
interpretation of Judaism from the Reform standpoint!   :>)



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ssteigma@scott.skidmore.edu (stephen steigman)
Subject: Rubin School of Music...
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:39:39 GMT

Is anyone on S.J.C. familiar with the Rubin School of Music in
Jerusalem?

I've been looking into classes there, and I'd be interested in knowing
of anyone who has studied at the School or knows of people who have.

Please respond by mail.

Thanks!

Stephen Steigman
-- 
=====================================================
Stephen H. Steigman   INTERNET: ssteigma@skidmore.edu
Skidmore College      VOICE:    (215) 642-1206 
Saratoga Springs NY
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:51:23 GMT
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

> In article <-#!nfbp.yosi@netcom.com> yosi@netcom.com (Yosi Almog) writes:
> >
> >nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
> >
> >: For the person who originally posted this article: Do you really expect to
> >: NO! for this question on SCJ?
> >
> >I guess most of the people who listen to the traffic on this list are
> >jews. A big portion of them are not in Israel. I guess I will hear from some
> >of them that it is not so important 'where you are jew' but 'what jew/person
> >are you'. But maybe I am wrong. 
> >
> >What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
> >in Israel?
> >
> >-Yosi
> >
> 
> You are asking the wrong person. However I will be honest with you and tell
> you my opinion. If you ask the question "Does a Jew have the right to live
> in Israel?" I would answer "A Jew have the right to live anywhere in the 
> world and so does anyone else". As far as is it important, I would say I don'
> know simply because I am not a Jew.
>


Yosi, I'm sorry but you got the perfect answer to your not very intelligent
question. A point for you, Nabil.
 
Manfredo

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish friends - help!
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:35:46 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug10.215136.25397@ils.nwu.edu> allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura Allender) writes:
>I had an Orthodox friend in High School who wouldn't eat anything that
>at our parties (not suprising -- the food was not very Kosher) --
>except for one day, when on the way to a picnic, I accidently dropped
>the watermelon, and it cracked in half.  So my friend ate watermelon 
>with us that day, much to everyones pleasant suprise! I don't mind
>his adherence to religion, and I was extremely pleased that I had
>dropped the watermelon, but how can the ground be more kosher as a
>watermelon splitting device than a knife?  And if he was correct in
>eating the melon, can't this method (breaking something on the ground)
>be used in other situations of hunger vs. kashrut? 

When you cut it with a knife, he has no way of knowing what the knife
has previously been in contact with.  And the knife comes in contact
with every slice of melon that's cut.  When it was broken on the
ground, the edible part of the melon didn't come in contact with the
ground, so there's little problem of kashrut there.  The part being
eaten was completely untouched.

As for hunger vs. kashrut - you're allowed to violate all but three
laws to save a life (including your own).  if you're really starving,
you are even allowed to eat a ham sandwich if there is nothing else
edible around.  Of course, it's better to prepare and not get into
such situations in the first place.


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ckinberg@milton.u.washington.edu (Clare Kinberg)
Subject: Gates NYTimes OPED
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:04:14 GMT
From: hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:15:29 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug19.225942.617346@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <57250@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>>If every Jew settled in Israel, even kicking out all the goyim in
>>Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank would not be adequate.  The limits
>>are quite real, and we cannot count on manna.

>Why stop at Gaza, and the West Bank ?		 :-)

Define the limits.  If we take the limits of David's kingdom at its greatest,
it is at best close.  Even if we include all of Jordan, and the Damascus
region of Syria, which is larger.  Remember that we would come close to
tripling the current population of Israel.
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish friends - help!
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:37:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: golem.ALLEN.92Aug14123715
	<1085@ceylon.gte.com> <2419@israel.nysernet.org>
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX

>>>>> On 13 Aug 92 07:57:31 GMT, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) said:

In article <2419@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
[...]
Warren> Is there any source for not eating food that was prepared with untoveled
Warren> utensils?

According to the ArtScroll book, "Kashrut", using a glass or metal
utensil (including baking pans and the like) that has not been
immersed in a mikveh ("toveled") does not render the food treif.  This
book is a very good source of information on additives, by the way.

-Shabbat Shalom,
 Michael
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:32:14 GMT

In article <92Aug21.032854.22038@acs.ucalgary.ca> kmjoffe@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kenneth M. Joffe) writes:
>Hold on a second here.  What is this crap with seltzer??  Maybe I
>do not know exactly what an 'egg cream' is. I remember my
>bub making something called 'goggle moggle'.  Not sure if
>that is an official name or her own term.  It involved boiling
>milk with an egg in it, adding vanila extract and other stuff.

  I know go-gel mo-gel (hard g's) as a sore throat remedy my Mexican
  ex-inlaws used to prescribe.
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Tell Us About Your Practice (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:24:03 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <1992Aug11.185628.16770@nova.sarnoff.com>
jms@vision.sarnoff.com writes:

>In article analyst@netcom.com, analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>>Reform Jews praying to Our Heavenly Father, and Reconstructionists
>>praying To Whom It May Concern.

>Being closer to a Reconstructionist than any of O-C-R, I rarely respond
>to this newsgroup. However, "To Whom it May Concern" still implies the
>same limited outlook that G-D is a person as the other three. When I

So?  Nu?  Do you, as a Reconstructionist, pray?  If so, to whom?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nyu
Subject: Helsinki Watch
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:06:34 GMT

Just inquiring as to this groups opinion of the report
by Helsinki Watch that "The Serbs appear to be engaged in a
determined process of forcefully disarming Muslims where
they are clearly a small encircled minority," stocked
them in the stadium "while their houses are 'searched'
[and] the men isolated and transported to concentration camps."

In the report is recital of one incident on May 12, when a
military police attachment of the Yugoslav National Army
shot 15 disarmed captive Muslim combatants and would have
completed its office on the rest if one soldier hadn't
called out "Don't kill them all. We need a few prisoners
for exchange purposes."

Quotes and excerpts from "The UN's Silence Will Be It's Shame"
by Murray Kempton, New York Newsday [reprinted without permission]

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Jewish friends - help!
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<FAIGIN.92Aug10061740@solarium.aero.org>
	<1992Aug14.181000.28756@tudorct.com>
	<ALLEN.92Aug14143246@golem.ssc.gov>
	<AGW.92Aug17102359@ground.cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:46:38 GMT

And COFFEE ... a small unopened container of instant (these days it disolves in
cold water for a "delicious" iced beverage.)
--
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Jewish summer camps (Was: Hebrew school)
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:43:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.122923.24463@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>Except when used as a joke, my parents would think it odd, at least, if
>addressed as anything other than "Mom and Dad" (or the other way around,
>of course :-).  
>-- 

I was referring to how she addressed the envelope.  Actually, it's somewhat
interesting that she always refers to her mother as "Mom" or "Mommy" but to
me as "Abba".  This has never changed since toddlerhood.

-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:41:51 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Aug11.185920.16872@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>Their attitude towards Jews has changed because they are being killed
>instead of them getting to do the killing.  They are looking to their
>victims for salvation.  And the irony is, we'll help provide it.

Why should we be any different from God who saved Yishmael?  This is
not irony, according to a dvar Torah I once heard this is the same
Midat Harachamim which we ask for so much.

Or do we really think that *we* don't deserve to be forgiven on Yom
Kippur? 
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very narrow gazelle.
 |warren@      But the principal
/ nysernet.org is not all that paranoid.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Facts and Opinions: Insights on American Jewish Thinking(?)
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:17:15 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug11.210714.1373@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> sg@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (stephan.gross) writes:

			..........................

>  These comments resonated deeply within me.  It brought to mind a flash of
>insight I gained last year, which I'd like to examine.
>  There's a Jewish tradition to stay up all night and study during the first
>night of Shavuot.  Many shuls host this event, which I've seen done in round-
>table, small group and lecture-style formats.

			.......................
.  
>  In other words, rather than learn the text, followed by traditional
>responses, and then ask their legitimate questions, people want to go right
>to the questions.  Dessert first, then the main meal.  And I think this
>holds in all areas in American life, not just Judaism.

Unfortunately, too many people are your way, accepting and not asking
questions.  In my classes, I cannot get the students to ask questions.
The only stupid question is the one not asked.

Also, in the application of all aspects of my fields, what is needed is
for the user to be able to ask questions, not to answer them.  Mathematical
and statistical methods are only appropriate AFTER the understanding is used
to ask the questions.  Too many learn the text without understanding, rather
than asking the questions to clarify very early in the process.  Memorization
is particularly adverse to learning the underlying concepts.


-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Bris
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:55:18 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

From: yy@corner.wpb.fl.us
To: burks@seena.eecs.umich.edu (Timothy Burks)
 
SO>to fill a small book!  I still have one question though.
SO>At the risk of opening a BIG can of worms, how do Jewish
SO>women feel about the Bris?  My wife's first answer
SO>was "I'd be relieved that I didn't have to go through it!"
SO>and then "That ceremony also honored the boy's mother, you
SO>       know!" -- but that's also from a non-Jew.  Is this a big
SO>topic of debate?  If so, what is being proposed?  Ending
SO>the ritual?  Doing something symbolic for baby girls?  Or
SO>is there already a strong Jewish tradition that honors
SO>female Jews... in kind of a "different but equal" way?
 
The concept of equal but different is very profound with regard to
the Bris, (to say the least...). The Jewish female does NOT have
to be subjected to the physical bond to G-d as the Jewish male,
because, the woman in her capacity is much closer in emulating G-d
than the man.
 
G-d's will was to create the world, and the woman, having a child
in her womb for the 9 months, is the closest act that a person can
do to 'copy' what G-d has done.
 
With this in mind, we can understand why the morning blessings are
slightly different for men and women. Men will say that the thank
G-d for not making them a woman, yet women say thank G-d for
making "like His will".
 
At first glance, it seems to look inferior, however, if we look at
G-d's will, we find He wanted and therefore created the world and
humanity. The woman is the one that can emulate this, and
therefore, she says the blessing which thanks G-d for making her
"like his will", meaning, capable to fulfill His will.
 
--- 
 * Origin: WORLDS LARGEST strictly JEWISH BBS - (718) 756-7201 
(1:278/610)
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Smoking during major fasts
Date: 11 Aug 92 03:56:49 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Aug10.222355.7301@news.ysu.edu> aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:

>I don't smoke, but I'm curious to know if smoking is permitted during
>major fasts.

Well to start with something that everyone agrees on, it's definitely
forbidden to smoke on Yom Kippur :)

As to Tisha B'Av, or even minor fasts, the answer might be similar to
the one that people have been rumored to receive when asking about
movies during Sefirah: "if you do it all year long there's no reason
you can't do it then".  e.g., if smoking is allowed in general it's
allowed then, and if it's prohibited in general it's no worse on a
fast.

Even on Yom Kippur, not all pleasures are prohibited.  The Talmud
discusses whether one can move out of the sun if hot or into the sun
if cold on YK and concludes that one can.  One can even use water to
cool something as long as one doesn't get wet (washing is prohibited).
Also, one is allowed to smell spices on YK.

On the other hand, perhaps abstaining just from those things expressly
forbidden on TBA isn't good enough as there is the additional element
of mourning involved which is absent on YK.  Then the question would
be whether the decision whether smoking should be prohibited due to
mourning should be made by the individual or whether the authorities
should make this decision for everyone.

Of course standard disclaimers ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold theft.
 |warren@      But the hiker
/ nysernet.org is hungry.
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:20:06 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <2434@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>
>Wow, finally an issue on which everyone's answer won't be predictable
>given their position on the OCR debate.
>


Of COURSE a Jew should settle in Israel.  It is a great mitzvah.  However,
due to the lack of extensive shopping malls and central airconditioning,
I have sincere doubts I'll ever get my wife to leave Dallas.....


-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish