HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: potamian@hpl.hp.com (Spyros Potamianos)
Subject: Re: Metafracn agglikou keimevou cta ellnvika [Re: Mia metafrasi]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:00:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

> From: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis)
> 		........
> Snmeiwcn: dev exw idea pws tov leve tov "compiler" ctnv Ellada. Pavtws,
> <<cuvtaktns>> eivai to idaviko.
>
> Kai va qumacte magkes, n ellnvikn eivai kai gamw tis glwcces. :-)
> 
> geia xara
> 
> Serafeim.

Nomizw pws h "epishmh" metafrash ths lekshs "compiler" sta Ellhnika einai
"metafrasths" (dhl. programma pou metafrazei mia glwssa upshlou epipedou
se glwssa mhxanhs).
BTW (pou lene kai oi autoxthones) h pio asteia metafrash tou orou "interface"
pou exw akousei einai "endometw'ph" !!!!!


Spyros Potmianos
potamian@hpl.hp.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:10436 sci.archaeology:2751 alt.mythology:2042
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: 3rd Re: jesus of Nazareth
Date: 4 Nov 92 07:32:46 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <Bx5BDA.Dqw@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de>
iptsiant@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos) writes:

>(When I was 13 months old, I was very ill. The doctors didn't give me
>any chance.
> My parents decided not to let me die wihtout being a
>christian (sorry, I don't know the word for vaptisi/greek or
>Taufe/german..).
>Three days later I was allowed to go home.
>
>Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos.

My conclusion out of the above story is : Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos's
doctor  demonstrated a higher talking ability than a medicine ability.

I have 2 questioned I'll like Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos to answer:

1. Don't you think that the real reason you was saved are  those 2
   shouts of the kuku bird near your window? Or may it was the
   peniciline shot you got? or the barking of your dog ?

   Fact:  I passed a similar experience about that age, my parents
          DID NOT vaptisi/greek me , neither did they Taufe/german me
          and I am , thank G od, a live !

2. sending the above misionaity staff to this Jewish forum is un polite
   , to say the least, Do you Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos, considered
   your unacceptable behavioure to be the outcome of your
  vaptisi/greek or Taufe/german  too  ??


Shalom   gideon ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: dimitri@cui.unige.ch (Dimitri Konstantas)
Subject: Verifying claims about Mutlu and Serdar Argic's existence
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:36:41 GMT

This message has not subject.
I just want to verify or disprove the claims that Mutlu and Serdar Argic
are actually automatted programms that give irrelevant replies to any
article mentioning them monitoring all groups (not only Greek and Turkish
related ones).

dimitri

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS)
Subject: Macedonian Recognition after US elections.
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Summary: Macedonian Recognition on the way, but is it too late?
Organization: Dept. Engineering Computer Resources, Melbourne Uni.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 07:25:31 GMT

An observation,

   The U.S. Elections are over. Clinton won as expected. However, Bush 
remains running the country until Janurary 20th Next Year. In December the
Macedonian name issue will be discussed at the EC, and all signs appear
it shall be resolved once and for all. Germany's words to Mitsotakis follow
along the lines of, if Greece doesn't recognise Macedonia, the remaining
eleven EC nations should be free to go their own way on recognition.
President Bush's path is then set for the United States Recognition to occur.
Question is, how long will it be till Serbia decides to invite itself to
Macedonia finally once and for all, bringing along overall Macedonia's
bordering nations. By then, the "Name Debate" won't really be an issue
then, will it. 

Well, it looks like the game was played well, indeed. I wonder what excuse
shall be given for Mitsotakis inviting his troops building up over the
border into Macedonia. 

SAS.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: iptsiant@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos)
Subject: Re: That "tamtam"% thing....
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:46:41 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

In article <9211011817@zuma.UUCP>, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
|> 
|> At his press conference at the National Press Club in Washington DC,
|> Sadik Ahmet explained the plight of ethnic Turks in Greece and stated
|> six demands from Greek government.


Why doesn 't he do  that in the parliament???


|> Ahmet said "our only hope in Greece is the pressure generated from
|> Western capitals for insisting that Greece respects the human rights.
|> What we are having done to ethnic Turks in Greece is exactly the same
       ===
Who does he mean with "WE"??

|> as South African Apartheid." He added: "What we are facing is pure
|> Greek hatred and racial discrimination."
|> 
|> 
|> "We want freedom of expression for ethnic Turks. We are not allowed
|> to call ourselves Turks. I myself have been subject of a number of
|> law suits and even have been imprisoned just because I called myself
|> a Turk."


Again- what does a Turk do in the Greek Parliament- didn 't he swear upon the greek constitution?


|> 
|> "We also want Greek government to provide freedom of religion."
|> 

Hey, that is horseshit!!

Go to Komotini and see how many minarets you will see!
Go to Efesos and take a look at the underground greek-orthodox church (because anything else should be forbidden!)!!!


|> In separate interview with The Turkish Times, Dr. Sadik Ahmet stated
|> that the conditions of ethnic Turks are deplorable and in the eyes of
|> Greek laws, ethnic Greeks are more equal than ethnic Turks. As an example,
|> he said there are about 20,000 telephone subscribers in Selanik (Thessaloniki)

|> 
|> Ahmet was born in a small village at Komotini, Greece 1947.
                                        

|> He earned his medical degree at University of Thessaloniki in 1974.
|> he served in the Greek military as an infantryman.
|> 

|> Serdar Argic
|> 



Panos Tsiantopoulos.
From: 6nikas_h@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Looking for some Greek friends.
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:03:58 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

Hi!  My name is Helen Nikas.  I'm a freshman at St. Peter's college in 
Jersey City, NJ.  I would like to make a few Greek friends, just for a 
change in conversaton.  If you'd like to talk to me please write to me
in email ( 6nikas_h ), and phone me through the computer so we can chat.
I'm 18 years old.  I live here in Jersey City.  I was born here, but I
lived in Greece for about 5 years, and came back to the US when I was 
9.  I do speak, write, and read Greek.  I guess that's enough for now.  Feel
free to write and talk to me about what ever, except maybe Greek politics, 
because I know nothing of that subject!!!

Later,

     *HELEN
From: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Biomed Dept I.S.L.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: DON'T RECOGNIZE SKOPJE-23 REASONS
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:40:07 GMT
Reply-To: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis)
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


	I read the 23 "reasons" carefuly, and not a single one was
	well argumented. Very poorly done job. 

	Is this the best you can do?

		- Lou
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: hhamouda@unity.ncsu.edu (Hechmi Hamouda)
Subject: Re:CONVERSION US & INTERN'L VIDEOTAPES
Organization: North Carolina State University Project Unity
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:51:29 GMT

Hi,
 
Because of sevral e-mail requests, I am posting again this message here for the
benefit of others who might need such service.

There is a service in Raleigh, NC where video conversion from any country format
to any format can be made (VHS, VHS-C and 8 mm types of cassettes).
This will allow playback of videotapes made overseas, here on U.S. TV's and VCR's
(NTSC System). The service will also convert the other way around, from
U.S. system to any of the systems used anywhere else in the world (PAL,
SECAM, etc..) 
 
Mailing Address:  INTERNATIONAL VIDEO CONVERSION
                  520 Harvest Lane
                  Raleigh, NC 27606-2217
 
Phone:            (919) 233-8689
 
Fees:             $20.00 + $5.00 S&H 
                  (Price of a High Grade Cassette Included, 2hrs or less)

Delivery:         Mailed back the next day, express shipping at request. 
 
Payment: 	  Cheque, Cash or Money Order mailed with tape.


Regards,
Hechmi.
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: computer terminology in Greek
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:01:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: kocrsv01.199211130101.AA02662
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Euge paidia me ton metafrasth/xasapeuth/compiler. Gia peste mou
omws re paidia, pws metafrazetai o epomenos oros twn compilers:

	peephole optimizer

Egglhnikws dikos sas,

Spiros
From: filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU)
Subject: Re: Metafracn agglikou keimevou cta ellnvika 
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:58:40 GMT

Sto arthro <1992Nov8.160548.3040@eecs.nwu.edu> 
o Serafim Efstratiadis (efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu) grafei:

>
>Agapnte Dnmntrn:
>
>Kaln n procpaqeia alla kapou exeis xacei tnv autopepoiqncn cou ctnv
>ellnvikn glwcca n` mallov dev exeis acxolnqei arketa me tnv metafracn.

To deftero to dehomai.  To prwto omws den to dehomai -- gia mia glwssa
palevoume, re gamwto :-) :-), kata tin Patoulideia ekfrasi :-) :-)

>Akouw tis evtupwceis cou/cas.
>(Gia eukolia paraqetw to keimevo java me tn metagracn grammn pros grammn.)
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"This graphical user interface, running under the
>X windows system, uses a variety of widgets
>to facilitate user interaction.  The interface
>uses a number of radio box buttons, sliding scales, and
>scrollable text fields to accept compiler input parameters.
>A pushbutton then executes the compiler in the background and displays
>the results in the appropriate window. The user can always interrupt
>the compiler with the "abort" button".
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
><<Auto to evdiameco programma xrnctn-grafikwv, to opoio trexei katw apo to
>cuctnma <<Paraqura X>> ("X Windows"), xrncimopoiei mia poikilia ergaleiwv
           ~~~~~~~~~~~
Nomizw pws to <<X Windows>> einai ena koina apodekto xeniko onoma, opws
p.h., to <<UNIX>> 'i to <<DOS>>, kai gi' afto nomizw oti den prepei na
metafrastei.

>gia tnv dieukoluvcn tns allnlepidracns me tov xrnctn. To evdiameco programma
                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I lexi afti iparhei sto arhiko aggliko keimeno.  Mipws omws katantaei perriti
sti metafrasi;

>xrncimopoiei eva ariqmo plnktrwv radiofwvou, olicqevouces klimakes kai
>kuliomeva pedia keimevou gia tnv apodoxn parametrwv eicodou tou cuvtaktn.
>Tote, eva patnma plnktrou ektelei tov cuvtaktn cto paracknvio kai ekqetei
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~             ~~~~~~~~
ME ena patima pliktrou, o sintaktis ekteleitai...

Diafwnw me ton oro <<sintaktis>>.  To sigkekrimeno programma den <<si-
ntasei>>, alla metaglwtizei apo mia anwteri glwssa se glwssa mihanis...
ara einai <<metaglwtistis>> 'i <<metafrastis>>.  

(Filos mou pou teleiwse Pliroforiki stin Ellada mou eipe pws metafrazontai
se ellinika egheiridia ipologistwn oi parakatw oroi:

bus (data, address, etc.)   ---> diavlos  (!!!)
compiler ---> metaglwtistis 
interpreter ---> metafrastis

Mi me rwtate an etoutoi einai oi pleon katalliloi oroi.  Apla eipa na sas
tous metaferw :-))

>ta apotelecmata cto katallnlo paraquro. O xrnctns mporei pavta va diakoyei
>tov cuvtaktn me to plnktro apobollns ("abort").>>


Filika,

Dimitris
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Us Modern GREEK scumbags!
Keywords: Addressing a Historical Mercinary for the Turkish Government
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:01:27 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov6.020256.14236@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> 2120788@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU writes:

> more decades he would have known what happened to the Greeks.This is so
> because he would heard the opinions of two of the most prominent 
> statesmen of the 19th-20th century.


Ahem... Are these individuals supposed to be historians or followers
of their national interests ? Let's remember what diplomacy is 
supposed to be about;  "Diplomacy is the art of lying for
one's country." I forgot who said it.


The statements from these gentlemen, however they might have
sounded when uttered, these days sound a lot like; "Let's call
niggers niggers."

It's very unfortunate that this cropped up again. It's apparently
still not understood that it is this kind of stuff that infuriarates
most Turks. It's this attitude that Mutlu is trying to fight,`
however unsuccessfully.


> Saladins of Syria,nor the cultured Moors of Spain.They were,upon the 
> whole,from the black day when they first entered Europe,the one great
> anti-human specimen of humanity.Wherever they went a broad line of blood
> marked the track behind them,and,as far their dominion reached,      
> CIVILIZATION DISAPPEARED FROM VIEW."
>              William Gladstone


This wouldn't be from a little book called "Blight of Asia",
would it ?  Why don't you post a little more from the book
and let the readership see what other things are true according
to the author of the book, and according to you apparently.


Taking world war propaganda and quoting this out of context is
not exactly intellectually honest, is it ?
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: yet another Greek name claimed by non-Greeks : -)
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:18:10 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com) writes:
)I did not see anyone mention this but Bill Clinton's last few
)campaign commercials all said "THE NEW DEMOCRATS". In his speech
)last nite Clinton also used the term a few times.
)
)Isn't New Democracy the party of Karamanlis, Rallis :-(, Averoff,
)Mitsotakis (:------) (tall), ..., ..., in other words, another
)Greek original?

And it doesn't stop there. In the last year's elections a brand-new
party took seat in the Swedish parliament, and it's name: Ny demokrati,
or in Greek Nea Demokratia (well, almost Greek at least.)

Politically they have to be described as right/middle populist
party. Although they are ideologically compatible with the
four parties who formed the government after the elections,
they were left out leaving them a balance position. They have
turned out be quite unreliable, and sometimes voted down govern-
ment proposals without warning in advance.

Their stance om Macedonia? No idea, but my guess is that they
don't know what it is. No, wait, they probably believe that it
is a malicious area which sends refugees to Sweden. (ND's biggest
issue is the refugee policy.)
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
From: filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU)
Subject: Re: Ellinikoi oroi sighronwn mathimatikwn
Keywords: Greek language, modern mathematics, terminology
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:41:15 GMT

Sto arthro <schoinas.720814298@cs.wisc.edu> 
o Yannis Schoinas (schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu) grafei:

>filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU) writes:
>

>>  group -->  sinolo (ki ohi <<omada>>)
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Syggnvmh, alla eisai sigoyros oti aytos o oros epikrathse?

Egw mallon prepei na zitisw edw siggnwmi.  Opws egrapsa kai s'
allo minima mou sto diktio, o oros <<group>> metafrazetai ontws
sta ellinika ws <<omada>>.  O oros <<set>> metafrazetai ws
<<sinolo>>.

Kai pali siggnwmi gia tin opoia sighisi :-(

Dimitris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: computer terminology in Greek
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:08:55 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH



In article <schoinas.720895894@cs.wisc.edu> schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>rizos@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>>
>>Ksekinwntas apo to oti gia tin apodosi tis orologias kyrios
>>stoxos den einai i akribis metafrasi, alla h katanohsh twn ennoiwn poy
>>antistoixoyn stoys ksenoys oroys kai h aneyresi Ellinikwn leksewn poy na
>>apodidoyn to nohma, den nomizw oti einai dyskoli h stadiaki anaptyksi kai
>>kathierwsi Ellinikwn orwn. Etsi, metafraseis san tis epomenes, nomizw oti
>>einai apolyta akribeis:
>
>Ti ennoeis na apodidoyn to idio nohma? Milame gia oroys oi opoioi apodidoyn
>ena kainoyrio nohma, kati poy den yphrxe prin 40 xronia. Ara einai kataskeyasmenoi
>oroi. Giati ua prepei ayth h kataskeyh na epanalhfuei estv se allh glvssa? Ua
>toys kanei pio katanohtoys?

Yparxei estw kai mia le3n se opoia6hpote glwssa, pou 6ev eivai kataskeuasmevn?
Apo tov ouravo mas pesave, h fytrwsave moves tous? Otav o Agglos leei
car/bus kai o Ellnvas autokhvnto/lewforeio, yphrxav autes oi le3eis priv
emfavistouv ta prwta ama3ia/lewforeia? Se poia keimeva? Ka mia kai ta
lewforeia 6ev eivai ellnvikh efeuresn, 8a pei oti metafrasame sta ellnvika
kapoiov 3evo oro: e, auto kavoume kai e6w. Dnla6h 8a leme
"phga me to bus stnv Omoveia" epei6h 6ev prepei va kataskeuazoume le3eis?
Kai pws 8a milagame? Me vohmata? Periergo epixeirnma...

_Oti_ yparxei se morfh glwssas, eivai kataskeuasmevo, kai alles kataskeues
epibiwsav, kai alles esbnsav. Ola eivai 8ema memetikhs.

>>   Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>
>Nai, isvs o oros parolo poy den einai akribhs na exei kauiervuei...

Tn mia les oti 6ev mporei va apo6i6ouv to i6io vonma, tnv alln psaxveis
gia to i6io vonma... Ti 6ev sou aresei sto "Metaglwtisths", kai ti parapavw
briskeis sto "Compiler"?

Xairetw, Filippos 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gavriel@socrates.umd.edu (Nick Gavrielatos)
Subject: There is only one  "Gav*0"
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:30:49 GMT


   And that is me, Nick the Gav*0, your old friend, Mutlu-Malak .
So dont use it for anyone else except myself. Gke Gke ?

Nick Gavrielatos
To Sixameno Plasma
gavriel@socrates.umd.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: zarros@scs.carleton.ca (Theodoros Sp. Zarros)
Subject: Re: computer terminology in Greek
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:23:57 GMT

Eixa arketo kairo na diabasw scg kai ksafniasthka eyxarista poy epesa panw
s' ayth thn poly endiaferoysa koybenta ,sxetika me thn orologia twn ypologi-
stwn. 

In article <1992Nov12.194452.555@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>
>In article <schoinas.721508418@cs.wisc.edu> schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>>santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas) writes:
>
>>>Compiler = Metaglwtisths
>>>Interpreter = Metafrasths.
>
>>Compiler = Metafrasths
>>Interpreter = Diermhneyths
>
>>>Syggvwmn, alla to Diermnveuths eivai margaritari.
>>>Poios "egkefalos" to epivonse? To Diermnveas 6ev tou ekave
>>>sto katw katw tns grafhs?
>
>>Alhueia, den katalaba akribvs to problhma soy me to diermhneyths.
>

To idio problhma eixa ki egw . O "egkefalos" poy epinohse ton diermhneyth
prepei na eixe ba0eia gnwsh ths Ellhnikhs glwssas. H pros0hkh paragwgikwn 
katalhksewn einai synh0ismenh se metafraseis kai ka0e allo , para asxetosynh,
mporei na 0ewrh0ei. 0a mporoyse isws na xrhsimopoih0ei kai to  <diermhneas>,
alla kai to diermhneyths an kai kapws adokimo , den einai ka0oloy la0os.

>To i6io opws otav les tov ergatn ergateuth, tov kourea koureuth,
>tov xasapn xasapeuth kok. Pisteuw va katalabaiveis tn 6iafora.

Ta antiparadeigmata soy einai astoxa. Ta oysiastika ergaths , koyreas klp 
proerxontai apo ta antistoixa rhmata me thn pros0hkh ths paragwgikhs kata-
lhkshs -as -ths klp. To ergaths den mporei na einai ergateyths giati 
proerxetai apo to rhma ergazomai . O diermhneas mporei na einai omws
diermhney-ths apo to diermhneyw. Fantazomai oti kapote to xrhsimopoioysan,
alla epekrathse to diermhneas xarin syntomias.

[stuff deleted]

>
>H apo6osn metaglwtisths/metafrasths eivai i6avikh.
>

Den kserw ti lete 'seis , egw omws sthn Patra edina Metafrastes I ,II
kai htan Compilers :-)

Mia apo tis metafraseis poy moy exei meinei apo 'keines tis epoxes einai
ayth toy  <operand> se <entelo> !


>
>Xairetw, Filippos

Antixairetw,

0odwros Zarros.












Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: iptsiant@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos)
Subject: Re: Question!
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:33:48 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

In article <9211011818@zuma.UUCP>, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
|> 
|> Yet another "wieneramus" in action. Today those puppets boast about being 
|> the descendants of a great civilization, and the cradle of democracy. 
|> Howevers there are serious doubts in history for both claims.
|> 
|> First of all, several historians and anthropologists have produced
|> substantial evidence with respect to any connection between 
|> present-day Greece and ancient Greece. The prominent German
|> historian Jacop P. Fallmerayer published a treatise in 1830
|> and made the assertion that during the Middle Ages slavik
|> tribes poured into Greece and annihilated the entire Greek
|> population. Truly, can anyone see any resemblance between 
|> that beacon of ignorance and the ancient Greeks who created 
|> a civilization?
|> 
|> As for democracy, in its entire history Greece has never been a democracy 
|> - except for the last 17.5 years. The Turkish rule in Greece ended in 
|> 1821 and since then, for more than 150 years, Greece was ruled either by 
|> a monarch or a military junta. When Greece attempted to annex Cyprus in 
|> 1974 with a clumsy coup, Turkiye acted swiftly to foil this larceny, and 
|> the junta also toppled in the tremor. Therefore, Greece must be indebted 
|> to Turkiye for its own fledgling democracy.
|> 
|> Furthermore, the evolution of democracy leads one to believe that
|> the cradle of democracy is really in England, rather than in Greece.
|> The Greek version of 'democracy' was purely an accident. It was a 
|> product of the love of fallacy and a passion for sophistry of the 
|> ancient Greeks. No mechanism or method to make it worth was set 
|> forth, save a loose oratory. On the other hand, the British adapted 
|> the concept, developed it, turned it into a reality from a mere 
|> fantasy, and made it work. Had democracy really been an inherent 
|> virtue of Greeks would it have dragged its feet for so long to come 
|> to Greece? Even today, democracy is just so much as a catchword among 
|> the tourism slogans of Greece - not much substance and a lot of aura.
|> 
|> 
|> Serdar Argic
|> 
1) Ottoman rule in Greece didn 't end in 1821; the revolution began this year.
   Some parts of Greece were till 1910 under ottoman rule (Epiros/Northwestern Greece).

2) Maybe there was not much democracy in Greece in the past. See the reason in point 1).

3) Again- YOU better don 't use words like "democracy", 'cause there has never been some in Turkey! (Waiting for some answers..)

Panos Tsiantopoulos.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia