HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:25:56 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 4606e9136a005658f8ef35c74ecf4320

In article <1992Nov4.194724.11942@waikato.ac.nz> simcock@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>> If you had bothered to understand the full context of the discussion,
>> and the net.culture of the newsgroup, you'd be better equipped to not
>> make yourself look like a fool.
>
>"You are foreign, Foreigners are only allowed to talk if they learn so much
>about American fundamentalism that they are indistinguishable from Americans."
>
>	I sincerely hope that this interpretation is not correct.
>
>       If it is correct.I hope that G. Wolfe will rethink her or his stance on 
>		Non-American people, and accept that a flawed understanding of
>		American religion is not a requirement to belong to alt.pagan.

It may appear that way, but that is NOT the intent.  Considering that
the peculiar "christian" understanding of things is not just an american
problem, the need to understand the net.culture of the newsgroup is not
dependent on understanding the american viewpoint.

The comment about net.culture is also NOT a comment on any sort of
"requirements" for posting to the newsgroup.  It is merely a comment
that getting to avoid getting "flamed" it behooves a reader to have an
understanding of where most of the readers and posters are in terms of
mindsets and assumptions.

I seriously doubt that you had any problem understanding the comment
made about the appearance of "666" in the list.  And the poster did note
in a response that they were aware of the significance of that number in
the christian mythos.   What was not sufficiently realized was that the
group is definitely NOT christian in flavour, and that there was not a
need to go off and interject their own (anti-)racist rant among a group
that is quite well aware (generally) of the effects of discrimination.

Net.culture is a newly emerging concept.  Electronic communications in
the text format are only about 15 years or so old (certainly less than
25 years) and have become relatively common only in the last 8 years or
so.  Usenet is (in my opinion) approaching a "knee" in its exponential
growth, and it will undergo some tremendous changes over the next few
years.  Part of understanding net.culture is the realization of the
international aspects of the net.

I most certainly appreciate and *cherish* the international aspects of
the net, even if I do occasionally fall into a somewhat parochial
american mindset.
-- 
Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
news@wolves.durham.nc.us  news%wolves@cs.duke.edu  ...duke!wolves!news
"The flame war is a specific Usenet art form." --me
[This site is not affiliated with Duke University. (Idiots!) ]
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Subject: Re: Looking for help
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:02:25 GMT

Speaking of looking for help, the machine ate my last one. since it was
under the wrong header anyhow, I'll try again and hope the machine
doesn't crash during my post!

Br'an, under another header you mentioned that you are a healer-empath. I
have suspected for a long time that I am an empath, since I seem to feel
others' emotions very vividly and it makes me VERY uncomfortable, esp.
when I am at work. Seven hours on the reference desk dealing with peoples'
rage and frustration at the University and at not being able to find the
resources they are looking for leaves me drained at the end of the day. Leaving
aside the issue of librarian burnout, (seven hours is TOO much time to have
to deal with the public directly) are there ways to filter empathic input?
I can occasionally BLOCK things out completely, but I find that those rare
occasions when I can do that invariably result in a drop in my effectiveness.
Somehow empathy is very important to finding out what the patron really
wants, and to matching the question to the source. The problem is dealing
with all the emotional "noise" that people bring to the desk along with
their questions! If they've had a fight with their advisors, I know it.
If they're been in line too long over in Circulation, I know it. The stuff
comes off them in WAVES and hits me right upside the head. 

If you know of a way to filter this stuff out, I'd sure appreciate some
advice! I've been away working on my dissertation, but I'm getting ready
to sub in for three weeks in December and I'd like to avoid the pain this
time. It's easier to deal with in small amounts instead of dump-truck loads.<g>


Blessings, --Debbie

*********************************
I don't presume to speak for the 
U of C; it's perfectly capable
of making its OWN mistakes.
-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: obsesed sf/fantisy types
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:18:01 GMT
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

The people that you have described are probly the way that they are
because they have no life out side of role-playing. The persona lits
them exscape from what ever problems they are unable to deal with in the
real world.  Some have may actualy have a psycological problem and this
delusion that they have developed is a symptome. 

ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lrfox@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (linda ream fox)
Subject: Re: info on Druid Prince Book
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: alt
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:41:10 GMT

As non-fiction it makes very good fiction.  Ross and Robins take a factoid
(the cake found in the digestive system looks like it might have been
deliberately burned) and construct it into a tower of unlikely theories.
From the moment a theory is stated it is assumed as fact (the fur on the
Lindow Man's arm MIGHT be fox fur)  and other theories are built upon
that one (a well know clan of Britons was called Loviantor and connected
with foxes; therefore his name has to be Loviantor).  No alternate theories
are given--mostly because if any of the earlier theories were to be questioned
the whole stack would tumble like a house of cards.  For Lady's sake don't
read this book for information.....

LRFOX
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need information on herbs that will abort
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 21:28:32 EST
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

> I've heard of people using a similar visualization to try to induce an
> abortion, where the woman asks the fetus to leave on its own accord, and
> asks her body to push it out.  I don't know how much success they had with
> it.  I don't think it would be a good idea to wait very long for it to
> work before trying something more predictable.

I think that visualizations and body-influence through visualizations are 
an important element in herbal abortions, without any doubt. It seems to 
be almost inherent that the woman goes through an emotional crisis-- it's 
a much more 'personal' experience than surgical abortion. Visualizing and 
accepting the return of the fetal being to the wholeness seems to be a 
vital part of the process. 

These visualizations can be important for 'ordinary' abortion too, I 
guess.

It's good to know that RU486 will be available here in the states fairly 
soon now.

I've been collecting stories and information on this for a while, 
expecting I suppose to write an article or something about it, at some 
time in the future. I'd be glad to hear more stories and experiences, and 
guarentee that nothing would be used in my writing without specific 
permission.

Later, Bill
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Reconciling BDSM and Pagan Beliefs
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:05:54 GMT
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Br'an,
I was interested to see you describe yourself as an empath. Is there any
way to turn that OFF when the overload gets to be too much? Sometimes I
find that the hostility level at the reference desk can start to interfere
with my effectiveness on the job. Usually I find that it's an advantage;
I'm a really effective "question negotiator," I can usually get to what
people REALLY want in a lot less time than most of my colleagues. But
I'm also very vulnerable to people who've been dumped on by the system
and end up at my desk NEXT.<g> It's hard to get at the underlying information
need when the patron is broadcasting anger and frustration on all channels!
BTW, the effect seems to work on inanimate objects sometimes,too -- I can't
even count the times the book has opened to the right page right in front
of the patron. I usually tell them it's a secret that's taught in library
school.<g> I can see how being an empath would keep things from getting
too far out of hand in a DS situation; hurting people hurts you, too --
and the backlash isn't pleasant.  --Debbie


dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
dlg1%midway.uchicago

I don't speak for the U of C; it's perfectly capable of making its
OWN mistakes.
-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: a prophecy come to pass . . . maybe
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 08:15:27 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <2AF89FC8.7156@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu writes:

 > Looks like the schism may have come to pass; TMM has been predicting this
 > along political lines for a while now, and you guys have stated it along
 > religious lines.  The two appear to have met nicely.  If Perot starts
 > his own party and it catches on (as all signs appear to indicate), the
 > Republicans will be left to the fundie-anti-everything crowd, and the
 > moderate conservatives will go for Perot.

It is quite on the cards. We have had the Australian Democrats formed
by the rebel Don Chipp as a spoiler to the two party system here for
nearly 15 years now.

It softens the blow somewhat.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Loo seats (was: Re: hate and anger)
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:53:58 GMT
	<2AF9F8DE.22416@news.service.uci.edu>
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 04:47:26 GMT

In article <2AF9F8DE.22416@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
 =In article <6679@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
   
  =>After all, when you leave the toilet, its 50/50 whether a man or woman
  =>uses it next - so leaving it up is just as likely to be right as
  =>leaving it down. And its such a *small* thing. Why does it piss off
  =>women so much?
  =>
  =>Janis can you enlighten me?

  =Chris, imagine this.  It is now 2:00am, and you have just been awakened
  =by massive hydraulic pressure from a nice sound sleep.  You get up
  =(quietly so as not to awaken to sleeping body next to you), and stagger
  =your sorry, bleary-eyed ass to the bathroom.  Down go the drawers, if
  =you wear `em to bed, and you plunk yourself down in the full expectation
  =of having a little plastic oval stop your downward motion before your
  =ass hits cold water with a serious splash and your feet jerk out from
  =under you in shock.  

Janis, with all due respect, imagine this.
It is now 2:00am, and you've just been awakened... well, you know the
scenario.  You drop your skivvies, if you wear'em, and straighten out
the "personal plumbing". Now imagine the sound of rain on a tin roof 
as you feel your shins being soaked, as trickles work their way to
the spaces between the toes. Imagine cramping muscles you never knew
you had in order stop what almost cannot be stopped. Yes, the lid 
(able companion to the seat) has been left down again.

My girlfriend/SO/fiancee have a very good system- playing off of the
cold war, I call it "trust but verify". We both leave it all down,
and we both check. Of course, this means that I can't ever assume,
whereas she might be able to, but what do I care? I learned my lesson-
ALWAYS CHECK!!!

Now if we could just make it into a religious ritual... :^)
Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com (Christopher M. Conway)
Subject: Re: The truth about Tipper Gore (was:Re: the US elections...)
Reply-To: wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com
Organization: Prickly Wombat Enterprises
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:30:39 GMT


In article <1223@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
- 
- 	Let us refer to the Dead Kennedys (DKs). This punk rock group was 
- creating politically radical music in the San Francisco area and was world 
- known and respected at the time they released their "Frankenchrist" album. 
- Contained therein was a poster by H.R. Geiger. The poster depicted a 
- surrealist painting of penises entering either rectums or vaginas. The DK's 
- put their own warning sticker and disclimer on the cover letting the purchaser 
- know about the contents. Unfortunately, this was the door through which Tipper 
- Gore and the Parent's Music Resorse Comitte (PMRC) stormed through. 
- 
- 	Wielding her husbands senatorial influence, Tipper Gore had the ALL 
- albums by the DKs removed from the shelves and filed obsecnity charges of 
- various sorts against the band. None of the other albums contained similar 
- material, just angry punk songs defaming the Christain right, the military 
- industrial complex, corruption of government and the current administration's 
- hateful politics. It took the band MONTHS and lots of money to get their 
- product back on the shelves of the stores, and the offending poster was 
- removed from the "Frankenchrist" album. The band and their label had taken 
- a hard blow financially.
- 
Amusingly enough (and probably not that uncommonly), I bought _Frankenchrist_
PRECISELY BECAUSE of this little war (I jumped in it so quickly, I got one
with the poster and their (extremely amusing) label. Wasn't real impressed;
but then, I'm not a Giger fan.). I'd never listened to the DKs, nor
have I yet (yup, I've never gotten around to listening to the album; I do
intend to someday. I'm just not a big fan of punk, in general).

--
In no way should any statement, question, or other transferral
of information in this post should be construed in any way
as being an official communication of Digital Equipment
Corporation.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher M. Conway		| U*ix and C Guru
wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com      | Legalize Freedom!
wombat@juliet.ll.mit.edu        | Marrou/Lord in '92!
nfinit::wombat (DECnet internal)| (505)761-2413 DTN 552-2413
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Where are those NC pagans?
Date: 5 Nov 92 01:04:26 GMT
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: blchapma@c00031-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu


Hi Catlyn

I'm here at NCSU too! ( I've also been flooded with work as of
late, so my apologies to anyone who has been having any kind of
e-mail contact with me, and feels as if I have totally ignored them.
I will get back, I promise.)  Feel free to e-mail me at
blchapma@eos.ncsu.eos 


-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"Today is within my reach, and tomorrow is so illusive
 But I'm still chasing time through increasing disillusion
 Forever living for the future of an illusion."

 -- FATES WARNING-- "Perfect Symmetry"
************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:53:46 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:

> Some say she fell from the sky, others that she has always been.  In
> my mythology, she is the very universe, and we just tiny reflective
> parts of her whole.  But I suppose as far as what we consider life on
> earth, she would be the very first cell that has split, and changed
> and grown, weaving with the fabric of this planet to become this
> wonderous biosphere.  Have you read _Lives of a Cell?  I think it is a
> very spiritual book.

Well done, Stephen. A nice set of well made posts, very rich....

Power comes in many forms, I guess.

"Lives of a Cell" is a good book, spiritual science.

Later, Bill
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: raising children
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:15:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1d9n69INN80s@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>In article <1d7cvkINNdoh@manuel.anu.edu.au>,
>Lubosh <Lubosh.Hanuska@anu.edu.au> writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov2.212844.11226@umr.edu> Angelia Sparrow,
>>asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu writes:
>>>Two folks come and say one parent does just as good a
>>>job as two.
>
>>I agree - this argument is mostly coming from those who for some reason
>>are in the situation of a single parent. I don't blame them for defending
>>themselves, but they shouldn't generalize their own situation. If some of
>>those unfortunate have to raise their kid (s) alone, and do a good job, I
>>honour them. But peole who are brave as single parents would be even
>>better as real mums/dads in a traditional complete family (=M+F+kids).
>
>Personally, I think the most important thing about this argument is
>that it is utterly MOOT at this point in history.
>
>The "traditional" family is no longer the norm, is no longer the
>majority, and is no longer what kids and parents can count on. It's
>time to move on, make other arrangements work, and stop talking
>about how one is better and the other is worse. It's not productive
>and it perpetuates a great myth that REAL families are "M+F+kids."
>This is simply not true anymore. Period.
>
>=gwyn

I agree with gwyn. 

On the other hand, I begin to wonder if a post I made a week or two ago made
it out, since I've seen *NO* awareness of it. To repeat my main point, and
expand on gwyn's:
	The "trad" family is an artificial, modern (middle-to-late 20th century
construction. The *ACTUAL* traditional family would include one or more
*GRANDPARENTS*. EVERYONE IN THIS INANE THREAD (almost) HAS AUTOMATIC KNEE-JERK
REACTIONS THAT NON-TWO PARENT FAMILY MEANS MULTIPLE SEX PARTNERS, OR SINGLE
PARENT FAMILIES!!!!! Now: have I made myself heard?

	Nowadays, in these overpriced times, I suspect many *need* to return
to that to be *able* to support a tolerable lifestyle, but far be it from
the last 12 years of Republicans to suggest such a thing. After all, mothers-
in-law are objects of humor & revulsion, and, besides, it cuts into their
goddamn PROFITS, y'know, you can't sell as much furniture, etc, if people
are sharing, and you can't make money off of taking care of senior citizens,
etc.

	Anyone out there wanta argue?

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: raising children
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:24:38 GMT

kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Kayvan Sylvan) writes:

>I encourage you to re-examine this belief of yours very seriously.

>The gender of the parent(s) has little to do with whether or not they
>provide a rich emotional (and otherwise) environment for their kids,
>especially if they don't live by the societal beliefs about men and
>women.

>Also, parents are not the only people that kids are exposed to.

Well said and TRIPLE DITTO.

al


-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Religious Patterns
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:46:58 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Oct28.010626.29438@u.washington.edu>
mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:

> You'd be amazed at the number of times I have been corrected by some
>Dianic or someone in the Womyn's movement because "Well, Starhawk says it
>is..." It gets annoying after a few years. [...]

> I'm tired of hearing it and thus, I used the word "brainwash" because I
>felt it was a good indicator of the mentality of people that quote her
>holy book as THE answer.

It is the fate of all people who achieve greatness to be followed
around by idiots using blanket aproval and quotation as a substitute
for thought.

It is particularly ironic when the author of books about
anti-authoritarianism is held up as an authority.

I gather that  Ms Simos herself is somewhat irked by this situation.

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
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Newsgroups: alt.pagan