HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:59:04 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Aug27.164310.28884@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
=>In article <25238@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
=>>In article <1992Aug26.173825.23137@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
=>>=>In article <1992Aug26.125404.7896@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
=>>=>>They showed a marked preference for the Castro regime over the US imposed
=>>=>>Batista regime which turned Cuba into a whorehouse for rich american playboys.
=>>=>>
=>>=>>The US had her chance to bring democracy to Cuba after she invaded. Instead Cuba
=>>=>>was run as a colony until Castro.
=>>=>
=>>=>While the Batista regime was certainly not a nice one, anyone who would
=>>=>call the Castro regime anything approaching democracy needs their head
=>>=>examined.
=>>
=>>No-one said that tha Castro regime was a democracy, only that the Cubans
=>>preferred it to being run by a thug like Batista.
=>
=>Jeremy, please go back and read Phill's original statement, which I
=>commented on a few days ago.  He clearly chalked up the US boycott of
=>Cuba to the US administration disagreeing that "the Cuban people had
=>more right to choose their leaders than the US."  That's historical
=>revisionism at its worst, and is right in line with how I interpreted
=>what Phill said.  My original remark was "the Cuban people *Chose*
=>Castro?  What planet are you from?", and I stand by it.

It's pretty clear that the Cuban people preferred Castro to Batista, the
US puppet. The US boycott has nothing to do with morality, as is made
evident by US support for despots throughout the globe.



-- 
==================================================================
-Jeremy Henderson            |  Une souris verte
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Qui courrait dans l'herbe
==================================================================
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19338 soc.culture.jewish:15045
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Newsgroups: il.board,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Computer Science in Israel Ignored
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:54:25 GMT
Followup-To: il.board
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

"Communications of the ACM" (CACM) is a monthly publication of the
Association for Computing Machinery, a computer science professional
society.  The August 1992 issue of CACM includes an article in the
"International Perspectives" department by Sy Goodman and Jerrold Green
entitled "Computing in the Middle East".  Goodman is a professor of MIS at
University of Arizona, and Green is Director of the Center for Middle
Eastern Studies at the U of A.

Guess which country is hardly mentioned?  Israel, the computer science
regional super-power.  "Snapshots" (individual segments) are taken of
Egypt, Iran, Jordan, and Syria, but there is scant attention paid to Israel.
In fact, Israel is *only* mentioned only in these three sentences (out of a
4 page article):

1. "The role, status, and future of the information technologies (IT) in
   the Middle East, with the partial exception of Israel and Turkey, have
   been largely ignored or misunderstood by most of the world." (1st
   sentence in the article).

2. "Oil, a strategic location, a complex range of economic and social
   problems, and conflicts on many levels (e.g., Arabs/Israel, Iran/Iraq,
   Iraq/UN, Lebanon, Somalia) combine to make this an important, unstable,
   and rapidly changing part of the world." (in the first paragraph)

3. "Of the three prominent non-Arab countries in the region, Iran is
   unconnected [to global computer networks], but Israel and Turkey are."

The way in which Israel is overlooked is astonishing.  For example, consider
this quote:

	"Software industries are being nurtured in Egypt, Jordan, Libya,
	Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, and Tunisia, among others.
	So far, Egypt seems to have the most extensive and successful
	record, one which we hope to cover in more detail in a future
	column."

No mention of the large software industry in Israel -- an industry in which
well-known companies like DEC, Microsoft, National Semiconductor and others
participate.  Simply amazing!  Similarly, the article opines that "[d]uring
this time of incredible global proliferation of computer networks, the
Middle East is noteworthy for the near absence of this technology".
An odd comment, considering that Israel has a large number of USENET,
Internet and Bitnet nodes, and, in fact, has it's own national network.

In fairness, the article is not a political white-wash of the Arab world.
It clearly notes that the Middle East is "a part of the world where
monarchies, dictatorships, and theocracies are dominant" and talks at
length about the police state character of Syria.

If you'd like to address this remarkable oversight, you can send email to
Diane Crawford, CACM executive editor at crawford@acm.bitnet.  You can also
send email to Sy Goodman at goodman@mis.arizona.edu.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:30:25 GMT

In article <BtJspK.A58@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id
friedman) writes:
|>In article <25149@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
|>writes:
|>>In article <1992Aug24.095753.307@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
|>>=>
|>>=>The US trade boycotts against Cuba and Vietnam are *strictly* between
|>>=>the US and Cuba/Vietnam. The US has *never* said that it would not
|>>=>trade with *other* countries which do trade with Cuba/Vietnam.
|>>
|>>There you go again. The US has said that ships doing business with Cuba
|>>are barred from the US.
|>>
|> Has the US said that if my Japanese company does business with Cuba, it
|> won't do any business with the U.S?
|>
|> I don't think so.

You think wrong.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Scie
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:48:33 GMT

In article 9497@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>(and before that trio-of-dickheads, Phill Hallem-Baker, Jeremy Henderson,
>and Brendan McKay, accuse me 

You seem to have a deep-seated wish to be hated.  You need help.

>                             of saying that Arab-Americans and other Arabs
>in the US better be careful or we'll deport them, let me state that this
>is neither my opinion nor my wish -- 

Well, good for you, Jonathan!  

>                                     but let me also state that t.p.m.
>readers ought to look at from where in the world these three are posting)

More jingoism from Mr. "fuck you, asshole".  By the way, I bet
I have travelled more widely in the US than you have.

>j.horen@rs.com

Brendan.
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: politics
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:14:05 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <1992Aug31.163951.25193@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>> In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>> >In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>> >>
>> >>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>> >>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
>> 				  ^^^^^^^^^
>> What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
>> land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
>> around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This 
>> land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the 
>> people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
>> ask the invadors.
>> 
>
>The land of the Philistines was around Gaza.  They controlled 5
>coastal cities there, after failing in their attempt to invade
>Egypt.  Philistines were Anatolian Greeks, and have no ethnic
>ties with current inhabitants of the region.  In Archeological
>Review an article on the results of excavations of the Philistine

So, the name Philistine in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, ...etc that points
to the people of Palestine , is just a cooincidence , right?

Don't be fooled with by the letters P and Ph when English translation 
takes place .

jle
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: What is the KD? Re: When Anisa answers...
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:28:29 GMT


KD refers to the Kuwaiti Dinar.  The exchange rate between 
KD and the dollar fluctuates between 3.1 and 3.5 dollars/1 KD (I
believe it currently stands at 3.3).

So, for example, in 1984, GDP was about 20+ billion dollars and
foreign aid was approximately 3 billion dollars.

In article <Btr6qy.EqG.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>This comes from the Central Bank of Kuwait.  
>
>
>          Official Foreign Assistance by Kuwait
>                 to Third World Countries
>
>
>                      1984     1985     1986     1987     1988
>                      ----     ----     ----     ----     ----
>Official Foreign
>Assistance            862      868      983      337      534
>(Million KD)
>
>GDP                   6424.6   6151.0   6675.9   6406.1   6633.1
>(Million KD)
>
>Aid as % of GDP       13.4%    14.1%    14.7%    5.3%     8.1%
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Aid as % of GDP (average for 5 years): 11.12%
>
>*** This does *not include* soft loans for project financing in
>*** third world countries by the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic 
>*** Development (KFAED).
>
>
>Kuwait's overall level of aid (not KFAED loans) as a percentate 
>of GDP was among the highest of all the industrialized nations of 
>the _world_!
>
>Also, as I pointed out earlier, one of the tacit purposes 
>of KFAED was to take provide a direct line of aid to people in 
>poorer countries, bypassing the corruption involved in 
>governmental contracting procedures.
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
>anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
>Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
>Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Who are the Occupiers?
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:20:26 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

There is a rabbinical teaching, dating from way before the current
Moslem-Jewish (or should I say Arab/Palestinian-Israel) was even a
twinkle in anybody's eye.

In the bible three plots of land are bought in perpetuity for the
Jewish people:

a) Hebron.  Bought by Abraham as a burial site (in the Cave of
Machpelah (Tomb of the Patriarchs) for his wife, Sarah, and eventually
for himself, as well as his son, Isaac, and grandson, Jaacob, along
with their wives, Rebeccah and Leah.  (Jacob's other wife, Rachel, is
buried in Bethlehem.)

b) Shechem (Nablus).  Bought by Jacob as a burial site for his son
Joseph.

c) The Temple Mount in Jerusalem: Bought by King David in order to
build the Temple.


In light of the the above, please tell me who is occupying whom, or
what?

(BTW in all of these places, apart from the Temple Mount-for fear of
entering forbidden areas in a state of religious impurity-there has
been a continual Jewish presence, apart from 1948-1967 when the
Jordanians controlled the area.)



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg             |    ^     "The whole wide world is a very narrow
Bitnet:                      | \-/-\-/    bridge, but the main thing is not to
rothberg@bimacs              |  X   X     be afraid"
Internet:                    | /-\-/-\
rothberg@imacs.cs.biu.ac.il  |    V             -Rabbi Nachman of Bratzlav
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: politics
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 12:36:20 GMT


In a previous article, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) says:

>				  ^^^^^^^^^
>What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
>land of the Philistines.

ROFL.

The Philistines lived in the area now known as the Gaza Strip.  The term
Palestine was given to a much larger area, including Eretz Yisrael, by
foreigners long after the Philistines had ceased to exist.

>Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
>around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.

You're revealing your prejudice.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:33:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.053428.2444527@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <Btt4A8.BIM.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug30.165318.4726@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>>>In article <Btsu27.5Dv.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>>
>>># In article <1992Aug30.013713.19594@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>>>
>>
>>I just felt that bunching Arabs/Iranians with the "usual leftist crowd" might
>>mislead a few people.  I didn't think it was that big a deal, just wanted to
>>clarify things.  You'd be suprised how many people have misconceptions about
>>Arabs...like for example, that we have "harams".
>>
>
>I woinnder wwhy did your government and apparently you bunched all Palestinains
>as supporters of Iraq brutality in Kuwait?
>
>(I know I am in his kill fine (thank god), but I thougtght others shoud
>see his hypocricy as well if they haven't already).

Unfortunately, all that is evident is how attached you are to twisting
words, giving them meanings that never was intended, either in the
dictionary, or by the person who wrote them.  Your first sentence is
both incorrect and unsupportable by anything I've ever seen Anwar post -
and I have been reading this net continuously for longer than Anwar and
John Elghani combined.



-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19229 alt.war:1860
From: manuel@clt53lx.edf.fr (Jose Manuel ESTEVEZ "clt50bx")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.war
Subject: Re: Soviet Nuclear Weapons Stolen? / The Count
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:19:02 GMT
Organization: E D F DER, Clamart France

In article <BtLE5A.EDw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, daniels@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel R. Sawyer) writes:
|>Iran is a  democratic republic in which unlike America ,a woman can walk
| >the streets without the fear of being raped and drug dealers and rapists are 
| >mercilessly executed.Long live Iran! Long live the Islamic revolution !.
 
  I have read this same things in NazyLand   
	you are the worst I never read. 


	IRAN is not a democratic country like all the Middle East countries Israel include .
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19147 soc.culture.europe:7768 soc.culture.greek:8073
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Let's do the TIME WARP!
Date: 24 Aug 92 22:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


Quoting Mutlu quoting Shaw (and finding them both lying again)
>What you really want from Greek educational system is not an image but
>a feeling, 'Pol* the Liar.'

  Quite the opposite. At least I was able to get some 'A's and a minor
  degree in History. (Major in Info. Sci.) Mr. Shaw's grades in History must
  have been dismal though, judging from the following:

> <<The Greek army that occupied much of southeastern Anatolia starting

  Southeastern Anatolia? I guess in Turkey you learned to read the map
  upside down. Perhaps that's why you are confused about the massacre of the
  Armenian people.

>  in the interior during the subsequent two years, and particularly
>  during its final retreat to Izmir, when it ravaged and burned Bursa
>  and other towns and villages along the way. Albert Nabon, Principal
>  of the AIU [Alliance Israelite Universelle] Boy's School in Izmir,
>  reported to the Alliance on 6 July 1919:

  TIME WARP! TIME WARP! Greece did not retreat towards Smyrna until
  August 1922, three full years AFTER the alledged letter above.

  The Mutlu Horror Show Continues:
> Greek population against local Jews and Muslims. Mizrahi, President of the
> AIU at Salonica, reported to the AIU (Paris), no.2704/3, 25 July 1913
> (AIU Archives I-C-51) that 'It was not only the irregulars (Comitadjis)
> that massacred, pillaged and burned. The Army soldiers, the Chief of
> Police, and the high civil officials also took an active part in the
> horrors...', Moise Tovi (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.3027 (20 August 1913)
> (AIU Archives I-C-51) describes the Greek pillage of the Jewish quarter
> during the night of 18-19 August 1913.

  Interesting! Shaw comments on acts of the Greek population against Jews,
  then quotes someone who clearly attributes the massacres to Comitadjis
  (Bulgarian irregulars, responsible for the deaths of thousands of Greeks).
  Where does Misrahi mention Greeks? I have seen this and worse in many of
  Shaw's quotes: Actions by parties not named are attributed to Greeks.

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:45:47 GMT

In article <3717@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.203516.1745@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <3694@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>
>>>And is the political concept of Zionism?  Why make historical
>claims based on Biblical testament then?
>>
>>Much of the Bible is non-religious history, and it's on that which
>secular Zionism bases its claims, such as are taken from the Bible
>at all.
>
>Can you elaborate here?  Are not the elements of Zionism based on
>the concepts of the Old Testament?  We know that Zionism is a
>nationalistic movement more so than religious one, but aren't the
>claims based on religion?

No. There are religious Zionists, but they're in the minority. Basically,
the Zionist claim to the land are based on the same premises on which you
base your claim -- and part of what makes the entire issue so tragic is
that both claims have validity -- that being that we, as a nation, lived
there at our origin and left involuntarily; hence should be allowed back.
Certain sections of the Bible are among the sources used to document the
fact that we lived there, but there are other sources from the time that
say the same thing. And the sections in question aren't religious-based;
they're roughly the equivalent of Thucydides. Not everything in the Bible
is about religion; some of it is the history of the Jewish nation, and it's
that we look to for our reference.

>Anisa

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 22:30:36 GMT

In article <4132@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.200751.14229@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>
>>This is the last paragraph I am going to respond to Nora. I am not ready to
>>flame with a female.
>
>What's the matter?  Afraid you might lose ;-)
>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE
>>NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
>>      Columbia, South Carolina         |
>>email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
>
>
>-Danny Rothenberg
>
>
>


No, Afraid of saying something not respectable for a lady! I would flame
with all the males on this net if necessary.
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: zuma.UUCP ???
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:01:31 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>whether Serdar Argic has an account there. Needless to say, his posts seem
>to have been sent via  daemom@ucbvax.berkeley.edu.

>In any case, if I see ANY postings by Hasan Mutlu (alias or not) on
>talk.politics.mideast, on Monday I will go to the American Cultural Center in
>Jerusalem, obtain the 1992 fax directory, find the fax number of the Turkish
>Embassy in Washington, and fire off my complaint to the Information Officer
>via an email to fax gateway in Washington I have access to.

Why would you want to fax the Turkish Embassy?
Are you certain that Mutlu is Turkish, and not maybe, an American citizen?
There was a posting to news.admin early in the week that appeared to indicate
that Mutlu was indeed a US citizen so fax'ing the Turkish Embassy is a bit
pointless.

Run a kill file on him and his new alias. One was posted a couple of days
ago on soc.culture.europe for most common newsreaders by Till Poser.

Dave
--