From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Grig Lemmon? (was Re: Barry Tompkins (Was: Re: ESPN & Td
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:18:39 GMT

Klaus Schmidt writes:

> Attending an English course in Cambridge (England) I learned, that
> people in Great Britain strive to pronounce names correctly, that is
> as the owners of the names pronounce their names themselves. I don't
> find it tedious but I do find it a matter of respect and politeness.

It is a common joke among my friends with whom I have ridden in the
Alps that the Swiss, Italians, and French largely pronounce Greg's
name as 'Grig Lemmon' whether they think so or not.  It reminds me
of the Danish who pronounce their city as 'Cope-en-hey-gen' in
English which does not parallel any of the European pronunciations,
especially the Danish.  It is an accommodation to what is believed
to be English preference, -- it might well be --, but I perceive that
many Americans and English say 'Cope-en-hah-gen' which again, has
nothing to do with the Danish pronunciation that sounds more like
'Kerben-how-n' as close as I can simulate the umlaut "oe" with "er".

That the English try to pronounce continental words in the native
manner is belied by some classics that come to mind 'ree-nay-sence'
for renaissance, and as you may recall in the film, it was Mr.
'Gan-dai' and more recently it is 'Indura-heen' in the US media and
BBC news.  No, I do not believe the English make any special effort to
assimilate non English vowels into their speech... certainly no more
than others.  The Swiss are better at it because they speak so many
languages and have an inside knowledge about foreign sounds.  They
include many foreign words in their German and German dialects
although not always in the original meaning.

The "Grig Limmon" stuff is so prevalent that when we ride into the
town of Limone (I), jokes that this must be the home of the great
American bike racer get rolled out.  I find it awkward when, in
English, French words with vowels are pronouced with nasal tones
and silent consonants that are in fact not entirely silent.  The
English speaking audience often does not recognize what is being
said (as do the French) and  the sounds miss their marks because
the sound intended does is not what the speaker thinks it is.

Klaus, you can speak both English and German well enough to do them
both justice but you should try to coach a monolinguistic American
to say "Muenchen" or words like "rauch", "uebeler Geruch", or the
Swiss favorite "Chriesie" cherries or "chlies Chuchi Chaestli" small
cake box or my Swiss friend's name "Ruegg" with an umlaut on the "u".
Just the concept makes the Swiss laugh from experience.

As I said, I prefer Brandt to be pronounced 'Brant' in English, any
other way seems to be affected and elitist.  It would seem to me to
assume that there is something else here than the person that you
see.  It goes a bit like name dropping or rolling out an academic
title in a non academic environment like a pickup volleyball game or
for that matter in a discussion about bicycle racers.

Language is difficult, I work on it with less success than I like.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles