HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:32:38 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug27.164836.9970@sco.COM>, paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug24.133937.58351@cc.usu.edu> 
 sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

>>On the other side, prep GMs have insisted that a GM who uses improv only
>>cannot run a satisfactory game. Improv GMs don't really have a defense for
>>that, and have been forced, time and again, to fall back on the ``well, it
>>works for me,'' line.
>
> Isn't that a perfect defence? Person A claims that it is impossible to run a
> satisfactory game using improv, person B gives a counterexample. This
> therefore disproves person A's point.

First, I didn't mean this to say that improv GMs have a weaker position. 
At the time some people were making observations about how the thread had
developed and I was just throwing out my own. But other people responded in
the same way you did, so it was probably my fault. 

Anyway, no. While that statement is a defense, it's not a perfect defense. 
It's just anecdotel (sp?). Most people who say that don't explain why it works
for them, they just say it does. And most of the people I've seen use that 
line have done so in some form of this context:

Improv GM presents an argument.
Prep GM presents a counter argument.
Improv GM says, ``Oh. Hadn't thought of that, but my way works for me.''

Now understand me here. I fully accept that there is no right way, no one
answer. Like I said, I was just making some observations at the time. I
know that there's nothing I could post that would prove one position right
and the other wrong. But there are certain strengths and weaknesses that
will be present regardless of style and preference. I think everyone has 
accepted that, or else we would have stopped talking about this two weeks 
ago. 

Alright, another observation (it's been made before): a lot of posters 
on this thread are inadvertantly arguing with people who share their own 
opinions, because the whole thread is so expansive and convoluted. What 
I mean is, Poster X will read a snatch of conversation (the original 
meaning of which has been lost) between Poster A and Poster B. Poster X,
not understanding the initial direction of A and B's discussion, follows
up the snatch of conversation in agreement with Poster A, only to find that
he/she actually agrees with Poster B. Makes for interesting discussion. 
Almost like arguing with yourself.

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``Charlie don't surf!'' --Big Duke in 
Francis Coppala's Apocolypse Now
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jjohnson@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Jeffrey H. Johnson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Will Rolls
Organization: NCR CCSD Columbia SC
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 13:17:33 GMT

In article <BtxpGu.KDu@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dave Deitrich) writes:
>In the GURPS Basic Set (don't remember the exact page) it flatly states that
>any will roll greater than a 14 is an automatic failure.  Yet, in a lot of
>the sample characters me and my friends have seen we find things like IQ 15
>and Strong Will +3.  Isn't this a waste of points?
>The only two things I can think of are 1.) the guys at SJG are rushed/busy/
>lazy, or 2.) there was an errata published somewhere that I missed.

Actually, the rule is a roll greater than 14 is a failure on Will rolls made
to avoid the negative effects of disadvantages.  Someone with an IQ 15,
Strong Will +3, and (for example) Greed would blow a roll against being
bribed with riches on a 15 or worse, but could withstand other forms of
interrogation with an effective "skill" of 18.

>Oh, well; just curious.  Thanks much for all replies in advance!

You're welcome.

>Dave Deitrich
>deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

Jeff
--
Jeffrey H. Johnson
jjohnson@ccscola.columbiasc.ncr.com

		"More human than human is our motto."
			-- Dr. Eldon Tyrell
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS Will Rolls
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:45:44 GMT
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <BtxpGu.KDu@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dave Deitrich) writes:
> Sorry if this is an FAQ...
> 
> In the GURPS Basic Set (don't remember the exact page) it flatly states that
> any will roll greater than a 14 is an automatic failure.  Yet, in a lot of
> the sample characters me and my friends have seen we find things like IQ 15
> and Strong Will +3.  Isn't this a waste of points?
> 
> The only two things I can think of are 1.) the guys at SJG are rushed/busy/
> lazy, or 2.) there was an errata published somewhere that I missed.

	Many (if not most) Will Rolls will have penalties attached to them.
Thus, if you are facing some really mean Lovecrftian horror (say -5 to fright
check), you need a 13 or less, while Joe Average needs a 5 or less. Will Rolls
to resist Major Phobias are -5, I think.

Brandon Cope
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:10:47 GMT
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University

splash@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jon Rothstein) writes:
>A completely improv campaign would probably have too much randomness, 
>unless the GM was incrediably skilled.
>	However, it would get tiresome to a player to go through set run
>after set run.  Players need to have control over their environment, and
>that includes where to go, and what job to take.  A few times, my players
>have turned down jobs, or done unexpected things...

	We are talking about several things here. In general, I think that 
the more preparation done for a game, the better - being prepared doesn't 
mean that you are railroading your players into a particular plot or action, 
it just means that you have worked out more of what is going on of the world 
and characters in it. 

	Improvisation can work fine - it is neccesary for any game, and the 
better you are at it, the better your game will be. Furthermore, I think that 
the more time and effort put into a game, the better it will be. 

	An example of this would definitely be my 'realistic paranormals' 
campaign: I had short writeups on almost all the paranormals in my world 
(about 100), and many of them were embroiled in plots just as complicated as 
what the PC's were doing. The focus of the game was on the negotiations and 
conflicts between all these people. I had more writeups for this game than 
you could shake a stick at. 
	However, I'd say about 80% of the action in the game was improvised. 
Why? Because almost everything that happened was in responses: what the NPC's 
did was influenced by what the PC's did, and vice-versa. Further, the PC's 
were completely open about their choices. I started the game by informing the 
PC's about a dangerous-seeming secret society which was working on some 
long-term plot. They helped out the guy who escaped from this society, but 
after that they ignored them as 'somebody else's problem'. Taking this in 
stride, I let them go out and get embroiled in a completely different plot. 
	This is not a compromise between preparation and improvisation, this 
is both. 

>
>	Too much planning might stifle creativity, but too much improv
>does give the players a dreadful feeling of randomness.

	As far as planning how the plot should go - that's a matter of 
personal taste and the particulars of the game. For my Gothic Fantasy 
'Dream-World' game, I always wrote out little plot synopses both before 
and after the game for the major events in the game - the PC's were *not* 
in control of their Fate - but then, what did you expect from Gothic 
Fantasy. 
	Some people prefer loosely structured games, others prefer games 
where the goal and plot are better defined. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Faith - faith is an island in the setting sun.
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | But Proof - proof is the bottom line for 
Columbia University         | everyone."                     - Paul Simon
From: dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: New Releases?
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:10:33 GMT
Organization: BBS

Does anyone have a hacked schedule of new RPG releases for the remaining months
of this year?...Thus far, the only things I've heard in discussion has been
Werewolf (released), Shadowrun II (kinda-released), and various upcoming GURPS
materials such as GURPS- Bunnies and Burrows as well as GURPS- Mythos.

--------
On the other end of the spectrum, are there any users out their planning to
attend Pacificon (California)?


dlaird@terapin.com
******************************************************************************

"The blasphemous beast rose from the putrid ichorous bile to display its
 cadaverous body and writhe as it lunged forward to grasp a man with its
 decomposing skeletal talons.........Now he's running for a second term."

******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White)
Subject: Re: Email role playing advice and opinions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:37:37 GMT


My experience with pbem in a grand total of one game that disintegrated
over the summer demonstrated a real big advantage: superior roleplaying.

I had always been a pretty mediocre roleplayer in ftf, but pbem had
a real interesting effect.  Suddenly, I had no dice to role.  No character
sheet sitting in front of me to plan strategies with (although I 
could easily call up the file).  And all these other players who
know *nothing* about me.  Basically, I had nothing better to do than
serious roleplaying.  So I did.  I can only begin to express the thrill
of dropping cryptic hints about my character's motives and abilities,
coated with a frosty layer of style.  Actually, a very good way to
develop a character: a situation comes up and I have time to really
*think* (and decide) what my character would do.  Most of the other
players were really getting into it, too.

And the experience has changed my ftf play.  I went back on vacation
and played a bit with my old gaming circle in a very interestingly weird,
but mostly shoot & slash campaign.  So, I generated a female elf:
high charisma with enhanced phernomes and most of my skill points
invested in various ettiquettes and negotiation.  Quite unprecedented
in a group who develop different flavors of the same old killing
machine.

Unfortunately, the game fizzled because of computer access probs
with the GM.  He was hit a $500 phone bill because the amount of
time he spent reviewing an avalanche of email.  [Heavy sigh.]


--Peter

______________________________________________________________________________
						|
     "Guards!  Let me draw their fire!"		|	p-white@uiuc.edu
		   --Scapegoat,_Marshal Law_	|
______________________________________________________________________________
From: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: BattleTech MUSE open!!!
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:38:07 GMT
Reply-To: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: bkdavis@c00477-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <1992Aug27.033324.17390@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
|>Path: taco!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!cmeadows
|>From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
|>Subject: Re: BattleTech MUSE open!!!
|>Message-ID: <1992Aug27.033324.17390@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
|>X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
|>	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
|>	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
|>Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
|>Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
|>References: <1992Aug27.033004.17210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
|>Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:33:24 GMT+5:00
|>Lines: 19
|>
|>In article <1992Aug27.033004.17210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.d
|>.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
|>>
|>>Many of you may not know this, but there is a MUSE (Multi-User Simulated
|>>Environment) open that is thematically based entirely on MechWarrior/
|>>BattleTech!  It uses the same character generation system as 1st Ed.
|>>MechWarrior, and should have Mechs by September 1!  Join the fun and
|>>the combat!  Telnet to 129.72.2.135 port 3026 today!
|>>
|>>(And join the 15th Dieron Regulars, Kurita Division--we use heavy
|>>and assault mechs for one helluva good combat!)
|>>
|>>---Chris Meadows
|>>   Pvt. Griffin, 15th Dieron Regulars, Kurita
|>>
|>
|>
|>Kurita HOUSE, excuse me...
|>
|>

No offense to the snakes, but there are other Houses out there that need more 
people, to make the odds even so to say. I know that Marik and Steiner need more 
people to join , and I am pretty sure that you can find spots on in them.
I am just telling it like it is. When I first found Btechmuse I could not believe 
my eyes...It is WAY COOL. There have been a few raids and a major battle but
you have not missed much...yet.
If you like playing Mechwarrior/Battletech I highly recommend that you play this
muse. I am not biased to any one house. Why cause I am a Merc CO. We are working for 
Steiner Right now, but the contract will up soon. See ya later.
Brebane


Oh the name of the Merc unit. You may have heard of it..
The Grey Death Legion.......
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie (Mithrandir)
Subject: SR II
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:50:38 GMT

  Well,ya see the problem is....
 In Ireland we won't have Shadowrun 2nd Edition for what looks like
another month at least.
  So...
  Could one of you kind-hearted people email me to tell what to expect
to be diffrent.
    Thanx.

--
]]>>>Mithrandir<<<[[          ]]>>tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie<<[[  
 A.K.A. Silken,Thuengrim,Redtassle Marigold 
 A.K.A. Sorceror,Iglyarch,Lucien (Villains)
Disclaimer:The college I'm in backs everything I say...I think
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Timothy D Little)
Subject: GURPS: Release dates for some supplements??
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 10:39:23 GMT


I have a (no Net access) friend who has been waiting for a long time to get
the GURPS supplements  "High-Tech", "Bestiary" and "Vehicles".

He said that he was told that they were being reprinted or not yet complete.

Could someone with authoritative information on the release dates (past or
future) please enlighten me?
--
Timothy D Little   a.k.a.   u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
From: splash@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jon Rothstein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:50:37 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

Greetings:
	
It seems to me that the middle ground is the path to tread in this situation.
A completely improv campaign would probably have too much randomness, 
unless the GM was incrediably skilled.
	However, it would get tiresome to a player to go through set run
after set run.  Players need to have control over their environment, and
that includes where to go, and what job to take.  A few times, my players
have turned down jobs, or done unexpected things...
	If you plan everything out to the maximum, one would be unprepared
to deal with that kind of thing.
	Create a loose structure, VERY loose, depending on your team.
I have had a few plots where the team could wind up working either side,
or their own side, or not.  
	Too much planning might stifle creativity, but too much improv
does give the players a dreadful feeling of randomness.
	As a gm, just think of the goals of each NPC that is involved,
creatures, or corporations, and that keeps a certain structure, as well
as helps NPC interaction.  
	And improv the rest, within the general plot or run, that is.



							--Jon
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Amber (questions and comments)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:03:34 GMT

New Amber book out, well sort of:

Visual Guide to Castle Amber.  My opinion, not worth the $8.95.
Shows the basic architecture of the castle.  But where are the
bathrooms?

Question:

Anybody know when Prince of Chaos is due out in paperback?

Ouch:

We had our auction last night.  I had decided that I would
take psyche no matter what.  One of the women wanted it too.
I won it for 65 points!  Ouch!  I have 40 points left to spend,
50 if I take 10 points of bad stuff?  Double ouch!

Question:

I asked before but no one answered.  I am confused about laddering
the ranks above first.  I know that in the Rules book it says number
one ranked is number one ranked.  But it goes on to mention allowing
players to buy above first using a ladder system.  Has anyone done
this?  And how did you set up the ladder?

I'll admit that I'm worried about her jumping over me.  She bid 62.
I'll need to buy down bad stuff and she has a few more points left
over.  I'm munchkinish enough to admit that I want to stay number
one!

Side note.  The next ranked psyche is 10.  The two of us were joking
that we could together force trump contact with each of the others
one at a time and do a Brand on them.  I hold them, she reaches through
and kills them.  Just a nasty thought!

Two more weeks til the Amber Campaign!  My character is going to be
modelled after the Bard Taliesen.  His name? Wren!

-- 

-Ben
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS Will Rolls
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:11:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bu0nzz.ILI
Organization: Indiana University

In article <Btxu70.CLx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus) writes:
>In article <BtxpGu.KDu@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dave Deitrich) writes:
>>Sorry if this is an FAQ...
>>
>>In the GURPS Basic Set (don't remember the exact page) it flatly states that
>>any will roll greater than a 14 is an automatic failure.  Yet, in a lot of
>>the sample characters me and my friends have seen we find things like IQ 15
>>and Strong Will +3.  Isn't this a waste of points?
>rolls are also made to resist things like Telepathy and mentally-based magic.
>In those cases, the higher your Will, the better the chance you have of 
>beating the opposing roll, and just having a 14 will isn't going to do you
>much good against a telepath with Mind Control 20, now is it?  And I believe
>Will is also used to resist more mundane things like Sex Appeal, which 
>makes it useful for somebody who has to worry about that often.  (Who this
>refers to  I've no idea; I've certainly never had to worry about it, but then
>my wife might have something to with that. :))
>
>The Walrus
>
I think that the "14 or greater" rule applies only to Will rolls vs.
things like Mental Disads. The rationale being that if your Will is so
high that you can always overcome your mental problems, the problem
isn't a disadvantage any more.
   In mundane situations, the Walrus is absolutely correct. I would add
that Will rolls to resist torture and pain are also not affected by trhe
14 or greater rule, or at least they shouldn't be.

Have fun,

 
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (John M. Scheibeler)
Subject: SRUN II Screwups
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 05:57:51 GMT

   All this work for a new Shadowrun edition, and I still can't buy
a simple @#$%&*@ two-way radio!
 
------uplink
As Paul Harvel said, "Good Day!"

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: CoC Campaigns (Was: Re: Call of Cthulhu Archives?)
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:50:11 GMT
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab

In article <92241.095312BJP108@psuvm.psu.edu> BJP108@psuvm.psu.edu (Brian Panulla, MooCow) writes:
>Has anyone out there ever written their own campaigns? I'm in the process
>of doing so right now, and wouldn't mind swapping ideas.

I don't think the atmosphere of Call of Cthulhu lends itself to campaigns,
although I've tremendously enjoyed running a number of cosmetically-
linked Call of Cthulhu scenarios.  (Well, sort of CoC scenarios; I don't
actually use the CoC game system.)

There is a severe problem in CoC with character mortality, both physically
and . . . otherwise.  I've never seen a satisfying role playing campaign
survive the kind of character turnover that CoC begets.  Having some turnover
is alright, but considering what you normally get with CoC -- in the last
scenario I ran it fell out such that:

	Ms. Adile ended up at the bottom of a 40' chasm buried under a
	great deal of snow and smoldering wood.

	Mr. Grey lost his right arm to the cold (snicker) and whatever
	tenuous grasp of reality he started with was out the window.

	Mr. Halstead froze to death after running screaming from the
	hotel out into the blizzard.

	Mr. Johnson walked away without a scratch.

	Mr. Smith, however, failed to survive Mr. Johnson.

Of course there were quite a few other people who did not have the benefit
of players backing their interests; their mortality rate was even higher.

The only one of the characters involved who could conceivably be reused
is Mr. Grey -- and yet all of the players, without exception, had the time
of their lives (well, OK, maybe by the end of the scenario the players were
afraid I would kill them if they didn't say that), as did the two and a half
game masters.

Where was I?  Oh, my point: don't worry too much about trying to run a
Call of Cthulhu campaign . . . the genre isn't really suited to it.  Instead
have fun running scenarios, reusing the occasional character when you can
manage it.
From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation and Preparation
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:13:34 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <24AUG199214440944@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
|>

I thought I'd just quote this in it's entirety, because it's almost
exactly what I was getting ready to post.  I was getting a little
tired of the piecemiel arguments over improv vs. prep, and I was
going to describe how I run my campaign in general.  This is 
*precisely* it (almost frighteningly so :-):

|> What I do is create my world and determine the events going
|> on.  I then let my players design their characters.  Between
|> me and my players we design the character's background which
|> I attempt to tie into the world.  Often in creating the
|> character backgrounds new pieces of my world get created.
|> I then set them on a course and from there it is up to them.
|> 
|> If I want to steer them in a direction then I have some 
|> things happen.  I coyly slip information to them when they
|> are not really expecting it.  Often in the form of rumors
|> or someone they meet.  It may not be important now, but
|> eventually it will be.  I create as the game goes along.
|> 
|> Often something a character does affects my world and things
|> have to shift to incorporate this change.  It interesting
|> to watch it all happen.  The players never know what is 
|> prepared and what is off the cuff.  Nor do they ever get
|> the feeling of "we're going off the map now".  Things are
|> spontaneous within a semi-fixed framework.  It has worked
|> for me.

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC