HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: overpopulation
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:19:27 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester

In article <1992Sep27.165420.16307@samba.oit.unc.edu> Bruce.Scott@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bruce Scott) writes:
>>>But this is just because the great die-off has started.

>>"Great die off" is bullshit, of course.  The world population has
>>never been healthier, wealthier or longer lived, on average, and
>>the trends are positive in most of the world.

> they go wrong it is not trivial. India has been charmed by the lack of
> really big natural disasters for some time now. But in the 1950's there
> was a famine whose effects were averted because the US fed the whole
> population for two years. That was with 300 million people. They lose if
> that happens now.

Again, bullshit.  A little thing called the Green Revolution occured
in India.  Starting in the mid 1960s, they started using high yield
wheat and fertilizers.  Wheat production there has increased by
a factor of five since 1967, well outpacing the growth of population.
India has never been better fed.

This is not a fluke.  These techniques have led to large increases
in yield whereever they have been strongly implemented.  China, for
example, is now the world's largest grain producer (I notice you
didn't mention China...).

> I do note the absence of comment from you concerning
> last year's disaster in Bangladesh. I repeat that 3 million homeless on
> shifting mud flats do not happen unless population limits have already
> been crossed. Unlike Floridans, many of them simply starved to death.

Again, *on average* the world has never been better off.  No doubt
you can point to instances of suffering around the world.  They have
been becoming less frequent, however.  The fraction of the world's
population living in countries with famine has decreased steadily
since WW2.

> A little travel where things have gone wrong can really open eyes. I
> suggest it, even only once. I've seen this for myself in Eastern Turkey.
> These armies of dirty children who feed off passers by will not grow up
> into the rosy Third-World technocrats one reads about in G Harry Stine
> novels. 

I am astounded by your illogic.  If poor people exist, the world
must be getting worse?  Come again?

You seem to be reasoning that unless every last person on earth
is better off, no progress has been made, and apocalypse is around
the corner.  Utter, raving nonsense, mister.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: another sad anniversary
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:55:42 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <BvI764.D06.1@cs.cmu.edu> REIFF@spacvax.rice.edu ("Patricia Reiff (713")) writes:
>Incidentally, my notes (made several months after the event) said that it 
>was Friday Oct 28, not Sept 30, but my recollection could have been faulty.

Sept 30 is the date given in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (the NASA History
book on Apollo lunar science).  Taylor's "Planetary Science:  A Lunar
Perspective" confirms it... although given the rather limited literature
on ALSEP, it's possible that "ALSEP Termination Report" got it wrong and
both books copied the error from there.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: Ethics
Summary: Terraforming Mars ... Do It!!!
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Distribution: sci
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:23:30 GMT

In article <Bur8nK.Gyx.1@cs.cmu.edu>, 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes:
> It's not contradictory.  You can value some life more than other life, but
> not some life more than human life, unless you are highly confused.  If you
> value life-in-general, you must value Human life (at least your own) as
> much.  Call them equal, if you like, and they are interchangable.  Any
> compromise depends on whatever is between life and non-life.  Good luck.

     I would gather a lot of people are highly confused based on this
conversation alone!

     It amazes me that people would complain about terraforming Mars, a planet
which while it may have teamed with life millions of years ago, is by present
evidence, quite dead, and at the same time find destroying a planet teaming
with life, Ie, Terra, Earth, perfectly ok.

     If anything we can do with Mars could possibly have the effect of
lessening the pressure on our Earthly environment, let's do it, yesterday!
From: rknop@cco.caltech.edu (Robert Andrew Knop)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System
Date: 30 Sep 1992 22:10:47 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:

>I love this guy. Best laugh of the morning.

Indeed.  And, since it is difficult for others to see in a net post, that
you're a wide eyed, frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic, this guy did a good job of
CAPITALIZING every word that he thought needed EMPHASIS, DAMMIT so that we got
the idea that he was RANTING and RAVING with YOUR TAX DOLLARS!  (Oops, sorry
about that last bit, got carried away.)

-Rob Knop
rknop@cco.caltech.edu

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<SHAFER.92Oct6081653@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<6OCT199211420001@judy.uh.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:59:53 GMT

On Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:42:00 GMT, wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov said:
> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
> Nntp-Posting-Host: judy.uh.edu

> In article <SHAFER.92Oct6081653@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes...
>On 6 Oct 92 04:54:52 GMT, roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) said:
> 
>[Lots of really good comment deleted, but this is _sci_.space and I
>can't stay on my high moral horse and complain about the signal to
>noise ratio when I'm part of the (non-sci) noise.]
> 

>Just a bit more on the V-2 commemoration: I was reading the stack of
>papers that accumulated in my absence and found the story about this
>controversy.  The article stated that over 60,000 slave laborers were
>involved and that at least 30,000 did not survive.  A German
>person/group proposed that a memorial to these people be erected at
>Peenemunde.  I inferred (but it was not explicitly stated) that were
>this to be done, many German or European objections would vanish.

> Mary that is wrong and you know it. There were never any slave laborers at 
> Peenumde. As I said before, there were some Russian prisoners of war but it
> was never identified as to what they did. To connect the mass production 
> center for the weapons with Peenumde is flat wrong and you know it. Give a
> source for your article stating that it was at Peenumde and we will see. Better
> yet type it in for all of us to see and comment on. The moral aspects of 
> space exploration and development are relevant here on sci.space.

It was a quote, you asshole.  Read what I wrote again, this time for
content.  The person quoted wanted the memorial at Peenemunde.
He/she/it didn't say that the slave labor was there, he said that the
memorial should be there.  I didn't say that there should be a
memorial or that any memorial should be at any particular place.  I
expressed absolutely no personal opinion about the topic at all.  What
part of this is too difficult for you to understand?

The source was the Los Angeles Times, on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday,
on either page 5 or 7, on the upper right hand side.  My copy went out
in the trash this morning, so the monkey's on your back.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: another sad anniversary
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:11:28 GMT

In article <halz2kh@rpi.edu> kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes:
>In article <BvEEwK.Joz@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>
>>On 30 Sept 1977, the surviving Apollo lunar surface instruments -- left by
>>Apollos 12, 15, 16, and 17 -- were turned off by ground command, because
>>money could no longer be found to receive and record their data.
>
>Why on earth did they turn them off?  Maybe stop listening for a while, but
>why turn them off?  What if they had wanted to listen again sometime in the
>future?

Same reason they turned off the Magellan radar- to save money.
Magellan could have collected radar images for another 243-day cycle or two,
for the cost of a few percent of the original mission.  (The attenna was
becoming less reliable although).
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Space platforms (political, not physical : -)
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:07:21 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Sep29.173235.8579@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>  
xrcjd@mudpuppy.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Divine) writes:
> Now, would you care to defend the FBI described in Alien Ink?
> That's a clear example of a 20th century government innovation
> that has been nothing but a vile assault on a free society.
> 
What is Alien Ink?

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:22:15 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Sep27.115950.29032@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary  
Coffman) writes:
> In article <25SEP199215572129@judy.uh.edu>  
wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
> >Funny how the space program is stalled because of the insistance  
on 
> >Scientific missions as opposed to development oriented missions.   
Why do
> >I say this? Look at the record. Since 1972 we have visited every  
planet in
> >the solar system plus most of their moons with Gaspra thrown in as  
a bonus.
> >How many Lunar missions have we had in that time period?  How many  
asteroid
> >only misions have we had? Actions speak far louder than words on  
this subject.
> 
> Well, we haven't visited Mercury or Pluto *yet*. 

Didn't one of the Mariner probes flyby Mercury?  


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: jmcd@cea.berkeley.edu (John McDonald)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Pioneer Venus (Re)Entry
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:28:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Center for EUV Astrophysics


I read in the weekend paper that they had determined that
the Pioneer Venus orbiter had run out of fuel to maintain
an orbit.  They predicted that it may enter Venus' atmosphere
this week.  Is there any news on this?  Ron Baalke, perhaps?

Thanks in advance!

john

begin 664 signature.uu
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M<G1I<W1S(%!R;W9O:V4@06QI96YS"E]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?
M+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+0IC96YT97(@(" @("!F;W(@(" @("!E=78@
2(" @("!A<W1R;W!H>7-I8W,*
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:13:18 GMT

>: you got your limitless solar power, you got your zero-G environment.  All
>: you gotta do a setup a few solar mirrors, vaporize the sucker, and run the
>: vapor through a free floating mega-industrial scale mass spectrometer

>Will a mass spectrometer work in the absence of a strong gravitational field?
>I guess you could rotate the spectrometer fast enough to make use of the
>centripital/centrifical forces.


Mass spectrometers have nothing to do with gravity.  They use
magnetic fields to separate an ion beam according to the charge/mass
ratio.

HOWEVER: for fundamental reasons (having to do with space charge
limits on currents) the throughput of a conventional mass spectrometer
is miniscule (think: if it were not, anyone could enrich uranium on
the scale of a lab bench).  In any case, the energy required to
vaporize an asteroid would be immense, hand waving about mirrors
notwithstanding.  The idea is basically stupid.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
From: digests%isu.isunet.edu@msu.edu (Space Digest maintainer)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Space Digest V15 #260
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:54:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BvD6FJ.8CH.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU


>TIME interviewed a group of the nation's leading economists (gee, I didn't
>see Thomas' name...) and asked them to comment on various aspects of
>both Bush's and Clinton's economic plan.  As a sneak preview, *none*
>of these professionals expressed the right-wing paranoia so beautifully
>displayed by Thomas.  They did have some doubts about both Clinton's and
>Bush's planned policies, however there was a slight majority consensus
>that Clinton's would result in better long term growth.  Of course the
>objective reader may choose to ignore the comments of talented professionals
>and accept the statements of a single armchair quarterback (read "Thomas").
>Weirder things have happened...

Lay a thousand economists end-to-end, and they won't reach a conclusion.
I doubt TIME's choice of economists reflected a decent range of
political opinion, so I doubt their conclusions,  TIME is, after all,
generally liberal.

-Tommy Mac                     .  "                  +
.------------------------  +                      *       +
|   Tom McWilliams; scrub       ,     .                        "        +
|  astronomy undergrad, at     *       +;.     .  '             There is
| Michigan State University   '                      .    "   no Gosh!
|   18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu                        '      ,   *
|       (517) 355-2178       ;  +  '                                 *
'-----------------------
Xref: sparky sci.space:13698 sci.aeronautics:2160
From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.aeronautics
Subject: X-15 (was Re: Hypersonic test vehicle proposed)
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:56:53 GMT
Followup-To: sci.space
Distribution: sci
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In <1992Sep28.164439.15002@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat):
> I saw something on the X-15 on the discovery channel last night.  they were
> talking about the last flight of the A-2 which got burned up and retired.

That was the premier episode of "Frontiers of Flight", which will run
weekly on Discovery at 8CST on Saturdays.  Each show will focus on a plane
in the NASM collection.

The X-15 show was very good.  I especially enjoyed Scott Crossfield's
comments.  After one early flight failure, Scott was describing how the
rocket engine exploded and blew off part of the rear of the X-15.  This
forced an immedieate landing, too soon to dump all of the fuel.  The heavy
landing caused the X-15 to break just behind the cockpit.  To sum things
up, Scott said that they had two failures on that flight.  First, the engine
blew up, and second, the aircraft broke in two.

Early X-15 flights were unpowered glide tests with the X-15 being dropped
from the B-52 at about 30,000 feet.  Total glide time was just over 3 minutes.
Scott commented that his `check out flight', the time he was allotted to
learn to fly and land the X-15, lasted all of 3 minutes 37 seconds.

An orgainzation of glider fans once sent Scott Crossfield a polished brick.
Scott said that he did not realize it at the time, but that he apparently
set a record for the shortest time for a glider to descend from 30,000 feet
to landing.  To the best of his knowlege, he still holds this record today.

Frontiers of Flight showed a few seconds of footage of the X-15 engine
explosion on the static test stand at Edwards.  Crossfield said that he had
a slightly ominous feeling while he was climbing into the airplane and
everyone else was heading for the block house bunkers.  About the explosion,
he said it was the largest noise he ever heard in his life.  One engineer
at North American calculated that Crossfield experienced a force of 150 G's
during the explosion.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov
Subject: Re: NASA Daily News for 09/30/92 (Forwarded)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.041048.13395@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes...
>In article <BvG881.5EJ@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>>... the second shuttle mission for a CSA astronaut -
>>>the first having been STS-41G in October 1984 with payload specialist
>>>Marc Garneau...
>>If I were Roberta Bondar, I'd be annoyed about being omitted...
> 
>I seem to have missed something: The only "CSA" I'm familiar with
>is the Confederate States of America, but they haven't existed for
>a good 127 years... They do still seem to have an air force despite
>this, but I hadn't heard of a space program...
> 
>                                                 Frank Crary
>                                                 CU Boulder
> 

As an adjunct to the Confederate Air Force (CSAAF), we have the headquarters
of the Confederate Space Command (CSC) located in Paint Rock Alabama.  
Our office gained unnecessary publicity when our SPACE SPHERES were seen
over Fyffe Alabama.  Also it has been erroneously reported in this newsgroup
that our COSMOSPHERE space ships are of Soviet/Russian origin.  Our 
purpose in allowing this disinformation to be disseminated by the poster
that  you have read recently is to provoke the war mongers in the pentagon
to continue the buildup of the STAR WARS missile defense system. Why?

Well look at it this way.  The ground based portion of the Star Wars 
missile system is managed from our capital city of Huntsville Alabama. It is
a common fallacy that this city is still under the control of United States
of America forces.  We allow this fallacy to continue in order to have
the USA government fund their own downfall!!  With the Confederate States
Aeronautic and Space Administration (CSASA) located at the Marshall Space
Flight Center (supposedly a US federal installation) we are quietly working
with our Sister centers in Florida, Houston, and Virgina to continue to 
develop our Confederate space flight capability. 

Why would I spill the beans at this point? Because you all will laugh and
think that I am joking.  Well well there folks just look around you. We now
have our primere baseball team the braves winning the pennant in their 
division, our football teams are always at the top. Just who is getting
fooled here?

:-)

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville (Grits Forever!)
From: williams@aifh.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: JPL robot papers
Date: 26 Sep 92 14:52:39 GMT
Reply-To: williams@aifh.ed.ac.uk ()
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland

Are there any papers on the Rocky series of robots from JPL available
for FTP (or by real mail)?

thanks

Bill
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert)
Subject: Re: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Constance
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:01:52 GMT

higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:

>Remember a week or so ago, when somebody on this newsgroup reminded us
>that the first flight of a V-2 (A-4, if you prefer) into "space" had
>taken place fifty years ago, in October 1942?

[..]

>Has anybody heard more detail?  Has the story appeared in print?

[..]

The story was in the news here in Germany over the last few days. 
According to that, the celebration was sponsored by aerospace industry 
and chaired by one of the ministers. Multiple protest caused a cancellation
of the celebration yesterday. It was replaced by a minor commemorative
meeting with technical lectures, but also presentations of the negative
aspects of the V-2 as weapon in WWII.
--
 Hartmut Frommert                 <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Nick Szabo Disinformation debunking (Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:56:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester

Wingo posted the following:

> No we are not still mining huge amounts of coal. We are mining less
> coal today than in the seventies.

This is quite wrong.  From the 1992 World Almanac:

	Year	US Coal Production (million metric tons)
	-----------------------------------------------
	1970		612.7
	1975		654.6
	1977		697.2
	1979		781.1
	...
	1988		950.3
	1989		980.7
	1990	       1035.9

Production is up 32% from 1979 (the top year for US coal production in
the 70s) to 1990.  US production grew about 2.6% per year.
Consumption by US electric utilities grew 46% over that period, or
about 3.5% per year, to 771.5 MMT in 1990.

The only grade of coal that we mine less of now than in the 70s is
anthracite, which accounts for about 0.3% of US coal production.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: another sad anniversary
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:43:54 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Oct5.133115.10677@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>...figure is for isotropic antennas...

The ALSEP stations did have mildly directional antennas (helical, maybe
0.5m long from the pix).  I would assume that the beams weren't too tight,
since they were meant to be aligned by spacesuited astronauts, but alignment
mattered enough that an alignment aid was built into the equipment.

>Anyone willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars could receive
>a 1 watt signal from the Moon with sufficient margin to decode digital
>data, or copy analog voice...

I don't know the ALSEP data rate, but it can't have been terribly high.
Some non-technical references speak of several million "measurements"
per day, which means a few dozen per second, for a bit rate of at most
a few thousand bps.

I also don't know the transmitter power, but something like 70W was
available for the whole station, so a few watts would be a fair guess.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: george@agora.rain.com (George Rachor)
Subject: Re: Mars Observer Launched
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:36:11 GMT

masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:

>	    M A R S   O B S E R V E R   1 9 9 2   T O U R

>	      Pasadena * Hightstown * Cocoa Beach * Mars


>- Steve (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu).

Sounds like a great T-shirt!

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton