From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 10:26:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.043917.11605@panix.com> nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan)
writes:
>In <1992Sep10.225548.8711@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU
>(Dwight Joe) writes:
>>The original statement made by Mr. Cheng is racist.  A racist is one who
>>believes that genetics determines behavior and hence that ethnicity
>>determines culture.  Anyone who feels "scared" that, say, a Japanese-ge
>>is culturally Western with no Japanese-cu culture is a racist.
>>Here is the original quote from Mr. Cheng.  Note that Ms. Yuan does not
>>feel that this is a racist comment by Mr. Cheng.  I believe otherwise.
>>   In article <edcheng.1dl2@terapin.com> edcheng@terapin.com (Edmund Cheng)
>>   Wrote:
>>     ...I know many Chinese-Americans... Some which have no Chinese "culture"
>>   in them.  The only thing that distinguishes them from any caucasian is
>>   their last names and their faces.  This scares me....
>>                        -Zheng Yip Wing
>>The alternative culture, which Mr. Cheng suggests, selected by some Chinese-
>>Americans (who have no Chinese "culture") is Western culture.  He says that
>>this fact "scares" him.
>...
>Since I won't presume to speak for Mr. Cheng, I'll just give MY interpretation
>of his statement: as a Chinese-American to whom Chinese and American culture
>are equally important, it scares him to think he might become someone who
>practices only Chinese culture or only American culture, because that's not
>who HE is.  What if he was a scholar of medieval English culture, and said,
>gee, it scares me to see people who don't study medieval England, because
>*I* wouldn't want to live that way because medieval England is important to
>me?  Is that racist?  I don't think so.  Mr. Cheng ISN'T saying, gee,
>Chinese-Americans who can't fluently read Ancient Chinese are betraying
>their culture because they are ethnically Chinese and HAVE to read ancient
>Chinese; THAT would be racist.  He's just commenting on what's important 
>TO HIM.

Yes, he is commenting on what's important to him, but he also
makes a value judgement on the behavior of other people.  His statement
asserts that he is scared at seeing Chinese-ge people who have no
Chinese-cu culture (but only have American culture) in them.

That's racist.  I see no reason whatsoever why "normalcy",
"naturalness", and "lack of being scare" accrues to a state where
Chinese-ge are practicing Chinese-cu culture and why "unnormalcy",
"unnaturalness", and "_being_ scared" accrues to a state where
Chinese-ge are not practicing Chinese-cu culture.  To expect the
latter is racist; genetics (ethnicity), in no way, determines
behavior (culture).  Any person is free to select the culture that
he/she wants.  Nazis, Klansmen, rednecks, and many Chinese-cu think
otherwise; they think that a person is going to have a specific type
of "natural" behavior depending on their ethnicity (genes).

(Note that being scared suggests experiencing something un-normal,
un-natural, etc.)

Note that Mr. Cheng does not say that he is scared when he sees
Chinese-ge people who have _only_ Chinese-cu culture.  This is merely
a fabrication by Ms. Yuan.  Mr. Cheng _does_ assert that he is
scared when he sees Chinese-ge people who have only American culture.

If Mr. Cheng had not used the word "scared", then his statement
_might_ be interpreted as being non-racist.  Also, note that peculiar
addition of "The only thing that distinguishes them from any caucasian
is their last names and their faces".  What on earth does this
have to do with whether one wants to practice a particular culture or not?
Mr. Cheng uses these facial features to explain why he is scared.
This whole explanatory setup and the explanatory "This scares me" sounds
very racist to me.

Note that Ms. Yuan's inexplicable conjuring of "medieval English
culture" (and I haven't a clue as to what her statement means) makes
no mention of ethnic and racial features.

>>A morally equivalent but opposite statement would be
>>        I know many Chinese-Americans... Some which have _only_ Chinese
>>   "culture" in them.  ... This scares me.
>>This statement is morally equivalent because, again, the intent is to
>>say that someone is "scared" by the fact that individuals of an ethnic
>>group are choosing a particular culture.
>>Let's make one more substitution to create the following:
>>        I know many European-Americans... Some which have _only_ African
>>   "culture" in them.  ... This scares me.
>>Here, we have the obvious racist statement.  In order to be consistent,
>>since Ms. Yuan believes (as she claims) that the original statement by Mr.
>>Cheng is not racist, then Ms. Yuan also believes that this statement is
>>not racist.

Again, Ms. Yuan must believe that the last statement about European-Americans
is not racist.  I believe otherwise.  I believe that statement is very
racist.

>>I beg to differ.  Both statements are extremely racist.  Many Chinese-cu
>>people agree with the first statement and are extremely racist.
>Since this discussion, if it belongs anywhere, belong in s.c.a.a., followups
>are directed there (I think).

Racism and racist comments are often discussed in alt.discrimination.

>>P.S.
>>-cu = in the sense of culture
>>-ci = in the sense of citizenship
>>-ge = in the sense of genetics (i.e. ethnically speaking)

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