HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rroy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raja R Roy)
Subject: Re: An article by Prof. Jayaraman
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:55:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.155034.26328@cs.sfu.ca> mahajan@cs.sfu.ca (Sanjeev Mahaja
n) writes:
>
>The immediate reaction of any serious scientist or science worker to
>the Ayodhya events is unmitigated horror at the sheer mediaevalism
>exhibited there.

      What has this to do with science? Science and scientists are two
 different things. Everyone, including scientists, have personal views about
 variety of other things in life. Science is important, but it is not the
 only thing in life.

>It is this willingness to live with uncertainty or incomplete
>knowledge that distinguishes science from religious faith; the latter
>in which\-ever form, always asserts some component of complete
>certainty. Scientific theories cannot be tested by appeal to the
>Bible, the Koran, or the Vedas and the Upanishads (as the
>fundamentalists belonging to the respective religions claim). Almost
>by definition faith does not admit of testing, being a personal
>experience or state of mind that is not repeatable by others in any
>objective fashion. Nor does the personal character of faith admit of
>falsification. All religions possess elements that are considered
>absolute and immutable; 

        Instead of being vague and waving hands, can the author be specific
 about what is it that can not be tested according to Hinduism. Nothing is
 taken as granted in Hinduism. If it were not so, we will not have multitudes
 of philosophies under the umbrella of Hinduism. Hinduism is not a monolith,
 like christianinty and Islam, and let's be very specific about this. Even
 concept of God is not accepted in many Hindu philosophies, e.g. Charvak.
 To equate Hinduism with Islam or christianity is sacrilege, because they are
 monolithic and devoid of any spiritual philosophy. To be secular, does not mean
 that all religions are equal. They are not equal, they have different views
 about different things and must be evaluated as such. There is nothing wrong
 about saying that Hinduism is great. It is communist propaganda to try to 
 equate Hinduism with other religions and claim that this happens in Islamic
 countries, or this happened in Europe, hence this will happen in India when
 BJP rules, blah blah. We have thousands years old history, and anyone who 
 wants to show that Hinduism is against the spirit of science must produce
 evidence from history, and not from extrapolation.

 Raja 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: an4234@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Hindus to be blamed for spread of Islam
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.indian
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:51:41 GMT


  The spread of Islam in India is to be blamed on Hindus themselves rather than
  forcible conversion by Muslim invaders. Their centuries of inhuman treatment
  of low caste Hindus has forced more of them to embrace Islam, Chritianity,
  Budhism than forcible conversion. If forcible conversion were to be blamed
  most of the converts would have been Brahmins or so called high castes.

  So instead of fighting the muslims the Hindus should clean up their own act
  and start treating their own people as equal and with dignity and respect. 
  Then maybe millions of muslims will return to Hinduism and the "muslim problem"
  will be taken care of peacfully.
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar)
Subject: Re: Communal bug bites the Indian police.
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:34:05 GMT

In article <1jskvkINNkcv@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> shyk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (shyam krishnamurthy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.223827.3493@usl.edu> zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar) writes:
>>
>>
>>    to the world as communal clashes between Hindus and Muslims. In fact they
>>    were Muslims vs. the police, who seemed to have a Muslims-only trajectory
>>    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    for their bullets."
>>    ------------------ 
>>   
>>
>>The spread of communal feelings within the police force is a very horrific
>>portent for the future of secularism in India. 
>>
>>Zafar.
>>
>It is really not surprising that so many muslims got killed, because they 
>defied the curfew and shoot at sight orders. It is ridiculous to suggest
>that bullets were muslim only as the mobs that were out on the streets
>were muslims. I should think that the recent police firing in Bombay would
>have killed more hindus than Muslims, because of the simple reason that
>there were more hindu trouble makers on the streets. I do not say that
>the police are unbiased or anything of that sort, but this is more a
>statistical detail than anything like a "muslim" bullet or a "hindu"
>bullet. The deal is that if you come out in defiance of the law you get
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>killed. 
^^^^^^^
>/Shyam
>
>


Can you tell me how many barbaric kar-sevaks were killed by the police 
when they came out to defy the Highest court of the land. The shameless
demolition of the Masjid took around 5-6 hrs, how many bullets were fired
to stop the demolition? None!!!  So you see Mr. Shyam, it is not always that
"you get killed when you defy the law" especially if you are a Hindu fanatic.

>/Shyam

Regards,
Zafar. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rroy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raja R Roy)
Subject: Re: (misleading) Indian Express Advertisement re: RJB
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:02:00 GMT



In article <1jkoqdINNqii@pollux.usc.edu> brao@pollux.usc.edu (Bapa Rao) writes:
>
>However, the idea of supporting any organization that harbors persons
>like Mr. Shah fills me with profound revulsion.

    Why, what is so repulsive about Mr. Shah. 
>
>K.V. Bapa Rao
>
>I have since been informed that Mr. Shah obtained Dr. Sastry's message
>from the India Alert mailing list. While I don't believe that a message
>posted to a mailing list automatically becomes public, there would seem
>to be at least some question about the privacy of messages to a list such
>as India Alert which I understand is fairly large. 
>
>In the light of this, I am withdrawing my quoted comments about Mr. Shah. 
>For the record, I still consider the manner of Mr. Shah's use of Dr.
>Sastry's message to be quite ugly, falling into the McCarthyist 
>red-baiting class.

    Why. What is so ugly about it. Earlier, I had somewhat favorable opinion
 about Pramath. Not now, after his commie connections are exposed. Well done
 Mr. Shah.  Now, I really wonder whether these pseudo seculars are really
 marxists in disguise who will sell their soul and country without compunction.

 Raja 
>
>Bapa Rao
>
>Once again, my personal views. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: <KONDARED@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Cross Cousin Marriages in Maharastra : A Question
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:35:55 GMT

 I'am interested in knowing wheteher cross-cousin marriages are practiced in
 maharastra, for purely academic reasons. I'am also interested in knowing if
 it is practiced all over the state and across all 'social' groups.

 Please reply by email. And the information will not be used for any other
 purpose except satisfying my curiosity.

 Thanks,
 Sashi.    (kondared@degree.ecn.purdue.edu)
           (kondared@purccvm.bitnet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.sri-lanka,soc.culture.nepal
From: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu (Rajan T Thampi)
Subject: Listing of programmes for BBC WS's Spotlight on South Asia (Feb.)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:02:34 GMT

Here is the list of programmes being offered during Feb. on BBC WS Radio.
=========================================================================

SPOTLIGHT ON SOUTH ASIA
The season is the largest collection of programmes and events based around a
region to be mounted by the BBC WS.  Around 70 programmes express the diversity of life and society in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

All times GMT.

'After Independence'
4x30 min: The recent history of the three nations that made up the old India 
from Sat 6th 1915 rpt Mon 0115, 1530.

'Eastern Sounds'
6x30 min: Music from South Asia from Tue 16th 1030 rpt Fri 0030, 1715.

'Four Short Stories'
4x30 min: includes two stories by Indian writer R K Narayan.  Thu 4th 0430 rpt
1430, Fri 5th 0430 rpt 1430.

'Gods, Guides and Gurus'
5x30 min: Religion in South Asia from Sun 21st 0230 rpt 1615, Mon 0730.

'Good Books'
15min: Anglo-Indian season. Sat 0415 rpt Wed 1445, Thu 0815.

'It's Your World Phone-in'
4x59min: from Sun 7th 1401 ed. rpt Mon 0630, 1001.

'Megamix'
30 min: A South Asian pop special from Colombo, Sri Lanka Tue 16th 1130 rpt
1615, 2215.

'Meridian'
30 min: Thrice weekly arts magazine with Spotlight on South Asia specials Sat
0630 rpt 1130, 2030; Tue 2030 rpt Wed 0630, 1130; Thu 2030 rpt Fri 0630, 1130.

'Outlook'
25 min: Five South Asian city specials: Mon 22nd-Fri 26th 1405 rpt 1905;
Tue-Sat 0105.

'Plays of the Week'
5x60 min: 'Sakuntala' Sun 7th, 'Hayavadana' Sun 14th, 'Mother of 1084' Sun 21st,'In the Native State' Sun 28th 0101 rpt 1201, 1901.

'Taking Issue'
6x30 min: A round-the-world discussion programme travels to Bangalore, India
19th and Karachi, Pakistan 26th. Fri 0730 rpt 1215, 1930.


-- 
Rajan T Thampi                                | Internet: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu 
Lycoming College (Physics), Williamsport, PA. |           rajan@maria.wustl.edu 
Washington University in St. Louis (EE).      |           raj@optima.wustl.edu 
Progress is an illusion - Donald E. Simanek   |           raj@apex.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: The Chacko Invasion.
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:05:01 GMT
Reply-To: venu@cirrus.com
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article 35566@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU, dchacko@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Daniel Chacko) writes:
				       ^^^^^^^^^^^

damn. yet another one from the family! george, susan and now dan. what is this a chacko invasion?      
---
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737 
The problem with the gene-pool is that there is no life-guard.
From: urajendr@aludra.usc.edu (Udayakumar Rajendran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Roomate wanted to share an apartment. LosAngeles
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:28:47 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Hello,
	I am posting this for a friend. He is looking for someone to share an 
apartment. He has to commute to City of commerce for his work. Any area within 
12-15 miles from City of commerce would be fine, Cerritos, Norwalk, Downey, 
Bellflower,Lakewood areas preferred. Sharing a 2 bedroom apartment would be 
ideal. Willing to pay up to $450 per month. Would like to move in as soon as 
possible. If anyone is interested you can contact
		Axay Desai
		Phone (Off): (213)889-5300 ext. 242
		Phone (Home): (213)748-7928
or send me e-mail. I can pass on the message to him.

Thank You,
From: kortikar@mipos2.intel.com (Aniruddha Kortikar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Need to share Apt 1. Near Caltrain 2. Belmont - Oracle corp.
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:04:48 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA

**** DO NOT REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT *** 
**** Please call 415 - 506 - 6179 (Office)  ask For Dhanesh ***

A friend of mine from India is looking for any apt to share near caltrain stn
in Mountain view,Sunnyvale, Santa Clara OR near Belmont - Oracle Corp.

He is working in Oracle. If any of you work there and would like to share an
apt with him and carpool to work that will be just fine. In that case you
need not be staying near caltrain station.

Please call him directly at 415 - 506 - 6179.

Aniruddha Kortikar (kortikar@mipos2.intel.com) 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail  : kortikar@mipos2.intel.com | A billion here, a billion there ...
Phone(W): 408 765 5515              | pretty soon it adds upto real big money
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: an4234@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Re:Sikh Terrorists now attacking Christians
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.indian
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:30:11 GMT

>From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
>
>A UPI Noos report says that Sikh terrorists are now targeting the tiny
>Christian community in Punjab, molesting nuns and damaging churches.
>The most brutal attack was on Friday when a gang of 6 men armed with 
>iron rods damaged sacred vessels and molested two nuns and a maid in a 
>church in a small town called Baddalthua, according to Bishop Gilbert Rego.
>rego, based in Chandigarh, believes that the attacks were motivated to
>drive out Christians from Punjab.
>
>One nun has been hospitalized in New Delhi with severe head injuries. The 
>second nun and maid have also been hospitalized.
>
>India Today also reports incidences of Sikh village women being abducted and
>raped by Sikh militants, in some cases, being forced to marry the militants.
>Also, on Monday, terrorist Pargat Singh arrested in Punjab. 
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Also, S.S. Mann alleges that the four Sikhs arrested for trying to bomb a
>building on 26th Jan. were "framed" by the Indian Govt. 
>
>[How does he know when they are framed and when not? Is he a kingpin of
>sorts with full inside knowledge of what the terrorists are up to at any
>given instant? Someone ought to ask him.]
>
  I remember for the last few years a few days before republic day some
  "terrorists" are arrested with "sofisticated weaponary, planning attacks on
  the republic day". It seems like propoganda ploy perhaps to keep the 
  security forces on high state of alert against disrupting the republic day 
  celebrations.

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Whether the BJP Can Deliver
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:32:23 GMT

Manoj Gayalod questions why there is this general feeling about the 
impending victory of BJP at the polls.

My response is as follows:

BJP's core support continues to hold in spite of all the media propaganda.
If subsequent to the Ayodya incidents, and in spite of all the negative 
publicity and verbal abuse, the party's standing at the opinion polls speaks
of 170 seats, then it is a lot. The negative publicity will only last till
such time as the people are tired of it. Actually it has already lost its 
punch. Once an election campaign picks up, people will look upon the
BJP as a party that makes good on its promise. Further it has a reputation
as being a clean party, and capable of delivering a clean govt.

Because of the failure of law and order in the wake of the roits, and 
the inability of PVNR to contain and prosecute the instigators of roits,
there is bound to be a negative reaction on the congress party. This will
substantially affect its vote, even within its vote banks. Further PVNR
is proven that he is a thoroughly incompetent andhra garu.  The fights
within the congress party will intensify. There is a possibility that 
an electoral understanding can be struck between segments of the congress
party and the BJP to make this internal fight a formal split. Further,
the BJP has performed very well in Karnataka. It can hope to gain ground
substantially here. In AP too, it can achieve atleast three seats in the
parliament. In Kerala its alliance with Congress will remain. In TN, 
Jaya will do the needful to curb the fascists of TN.

These are the  reasons that I can think that the perception of BJP
winning the elections holds. 

The shrillness of the rheteroic from the discredited marxists of India,
and the loony left of India is a sharp indication that the things are
not going their way. People give a damn to these tyrants in disguise.
They know their true colors and know pretty well that these are the
very forces who are a threat to democracy in India. They have been 
and they continue to be.

...kt
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: gupta@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (Sanjay K. Gupta)
Subject: Reporting the Reasons for the Riots
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Billerica, Mass. (USA)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:53:43 GMT


Hi,
     	Here is an analysis by one of the largest circulation english journal 
     India Today. In its analysis about situation in Uttar Pradesh
     "The reason being that most people had had their fill of Ayodhya related
     violence in 1990 under Mulayam Singh Yadav. But no thanks to state govt.
     Most districts hardly had enough force to cope with large scale rioting.
     Anxious to pre-empt a Hindu attack, many muslims went on to offensive." 
     
     	What is it if not a support to the violence. The reporters of India 
     Today should remember thet BJP doesn't require their thank as it has been 
     shown in one of their own analysis that people are overwhelmingly thanking
     BJP for what they have done. During one and a half year of BJP govt. in
     UP only one major riot happenned in UP unlike the supposedly secular 
     earlier regimes when there used to be riots every other day and used to 
     continue for months. The riot happened in the holy city of Varanasi, the 
     place I'm proud to belong to. The way it was put down was unparalleled. 
     The riot started when a muslim mob attacked a peaceful Kali idol procession
     being carried out by a sizeable but humble(weak?) Bengali community of 
     Varanasi. The Times of India analysis wrote: "The authorities are to blame 
     as to why they allowed a procession to be taken out in front of a mosque."
     At one time there was curfew in 48 towns of UP during tense days of Oct'90.
     The reason given was provocation by BJP to the muslims. Well if that be the
     case then the biggest provocation was the BJP itself in power and saying
     every other day that they are going to build the temple.
	Any discerning reader can see through the anti-BJP animus  that clouds 
     the judgement of these fellow travellers who control Indian print media. 
     India Today again gives reason for little violence in TN to the limited 
     base of BJP. Probably same  doesn't apply to states like Bengal, Kerala and
     many other states where BJP has limited base and also what about Himachal 
     Pradesh and Rajasthan where BJP controlled the state goverments and the 
     states had little or no violence in comparison to Congress controlled 
     Maharashtra and Gujarat.

     Sanjay K. Gupta
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: f0g1@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Prasad Gokhale)
Subject: Re: Regarding Indian Behaviour . . .
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:04:48 GMT

In article <1k4hfo$rh1@agate.berkeley.edu> c60b-1ky@web-1g.berkeley.edu () writes:

>heritage and customs, but Indians here have forgotten the Gandhi's, 
>Vivekananda's, Nehru's who strove to rid us of the West. Thank God they are
>					- Vikram.

Gandhiji and Swamiji alright...but Nehru ? I hope you are not serious...

Prasad. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: arun@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Arun Achyuthan)
Subject: Re: (misleading) Indian Express Advertisement re: RJB
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:26:20 GMT

Hate to nitpick, but..

In article <9301220218.AA09455@mercury.aichem.arizona.edu> ajay@mercury.aichem.arizona.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
>
>Bapa Rao,
>
>However, please remember that the attacks such as RSS/VHP = Nazi

Nowhere in the original article did I find Pramath making this comparison.
The word Nazi appears only at place in the article, that is when Pramath
produces the famous quote from Pastor Niemoller (at the end of the quote
it says "..in Nazi Germany").

Can you please quote relevant passages from Pramath's post to
rpove that he equated RSS/VHP with Nazi? If not please admit that
you made a mistake or that you deliberatley tried to mislead the
readers of this newsgroup.

>were initiated by Pramarth - explicitly in both his messages 
>(to  India Alert and S.C.I.).  All we did was point out what he
>had written.  McCartyism, is attaching unsubstantiated labels.
>Pramath explictly called VHP/RSS Nazi, whereas we just reposted

Aw..even stronger allegation. "Explicitly"? Where?

>his note, which admits that Prof. Jayraman is cognet because he 
>is a Marxist. Why haven't you chastized the Nazi-calling class?

Reproduced from the letter sneaked to s.c.i. by you:

"Jayaraman has written an article for the Frontline.
 I will send you a copy of the TeX version soon. He'd
 like to get into the IADG- and I have no hesitation recommending
 him. Yes he is Marxist, but he is articulate, and very
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                        ^^^^^^^^
 cogent (he would say that that is what
 makes him cogent and articulate).
 Also his media connections are tremendous, and his
 political connections are also very very wide."

My English should be very bad if I infer from this passage that
"Jayaraman is cogent *because* he is a Marxist".

>Should double standards on your part make me feel once again, 
>that only Nationalist Hindus are victims of name-calling?
>
>

Take it as a rhetorical question and answer it yourself, by
replacing "Nationalist Hindus" with "a common contributor to the net".

>***********************
>Ajay Shah
>ajay@mercury.aichem.arizona.edu
>**************************
>

Arun Achyuthan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sarafrk@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Rajeev K. Saraf)
Subject: Looking for ANIL BANSALI at MICROSOFT
Originator: sarafrk@cee1
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:44:40 GMT

From: sarafrk@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Rajeev K. Saraf)
Newsgroups: indian.soc.cult
Subject: looking for ANIL BANSALI at MICROSOFT
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Keywords: 

 Hi netters,
i am looking for Anil Bansali. The last information i had was that he
is working for microsoft. If anyone knows about him let me know his
e-mail and/or phone#.
Thanks,

Rajeev Saraf
sarafrk@vuse.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sarafrk@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Rajeev K. Saraf)
Subject: starting discussion group on transportation system in india
Originator: sarafrk@cee1
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:52:30 GMT

Hello netters,
	I am doctoral student in transportation engineering. I am always
been interested in the state of transportation sector and their management,
new policies and projects going in india.
	I was wondering if could start a discussion on the existing 
transportation facilities in India and also discussing the possible 
ways of tackling traffic congestion problem in most of the major cities. 
Once we have enough participants we could think of forming a seperate 
user group. 
Please post your views and also yours ideas on kind of topics we should
discuss.
Thanking you all,

Rajeev Saraf
Vanderbilt University
sarafrk@vuse.vanderbilt.edu