From: sears@tree.egr.uh.edu (Paul S. Sears)
Subject: Re: [comp.org.eff.talk] Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on users?
Reply-To: sears@tree.egr.uh.edu
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:16:54 GMT

In article <BxLyqz.ILx@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
=>[A repost - Carl]
=>
=>Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
=>From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
=>Subject: Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on  
users?
=>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:09:48 GMT
=>Message-ID: <BxCswD.LHp@ibmpcug.co.uk>
=>
=>In article <1992Nov2.041052.28698@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> michaelb@cse.fau.edu  
(Michael Rogero Brown) writes:
=>>What infuriates me is HOW WOULD THEY KNOW HOW PEOPLE ARE USING THIS STUFF?  
=>>The only why I see that they would know is if they are spying on student 
=>>activties, ie reading their mail to see if its serious or not, etc.   
Frankly
=>>this is totally unethical, but is it illegal?  I would think users would  
have
=>>some right to privacy in their accounts from the sysadms spying on them.
=>

Michael Rogero Brown:

  Do you know they are "spying" by explicitly watching what you are doing?   
They can tell how the system resources are being used by simple logs that are  
standard to any system (VMS has exceptional account utilities).  It is highly  
likely that they _never_ looked at the content, but are making empirical  
assumptions based on usage of system resources.  Before you condem the  
administrators, try to find out exactly what they are doing...

=>Nope, you have no rights whatsoever.  Public telnet gateways throughout
=>the world are logged and everyone who uses them should be aware of this.
=>
=>The ostensible reason for this monitoring to to catch people hacking other
=>systems, but I see no way of stopping unprincipled sysnazis from using the
=>information for their own gain.
=>

Carl M. Kadie:

No.. not entirely correct.  Yes, much is logged, but _usually_ one relevant  
information, such as headers, connect times, etc (however I am not saying that  
there are not unethical sys admins, I am saying that most are ethical and most  
don't have the time nor inclination to watch the content of every message or  
session that occurs on their system/gateway).  For example, most of  
connections made to one of my servers is logged (in fact, every connection  
made, i.e, finger, telnet, rlogin, sendmail, sockets) is logged to a file.   
Only statistical information is logged -- _not_ content.  Please be aware of  
this distinction:

Nov 12 06:41:52 server fingerd[3607]: connect from lucca@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
Nov 12 07:15:20 server fingerd[3639]: connect from kolsaas.ifi.uio.no
Nov 12 08:26:43 server ftpd[3684]: connect from Izmir.EE.UH.EDU
Nov 12 08:27:03 server ftpd[3685]: connect from Izmir.EE.UH.EDU
Nov 12 08:54:20 server rlogind[3733]: connect from thanatos
Nov 12 09:21:35 server ftpd[3824]: connect from Izmir.EE.UH.EDU
Nov 12 09:30:09 server ftpd[3831]: connect from Izmir.EE.UH.EDU
Nov 12 09:36:07 server rlogind[3860]: connect from tree
Nov 12 09:42:22 server ftpd[3882]: connect from Izmir.EE.UH.EDU
Nov 12 09:47:27 server login: 1 LOGIN FAILURE FROM Jane.UH.EDU, user xxxxx

Logins are logged, login failures are logged, fingers are logged and so on...   
I can scan this log looking for anything that is unusual like many repeated  
login attempts/failures from a particular host.  This is extremely helpful in  
tracking down system problems and hacking attempts.  This is all the  
information I need.  I don't need to know the content of a session, nor do I  
want to know...

=>G
=>(If anyone knows of any *laws* that stop sysnazis monitoring
=>accounts and telnet sessions, especially in Britain, please post)

Is this speculation or do you have evidence that "sysnazis" are monitoring  
accounts.  And what is considered monitoring?  Keeping track of when a user  
logs in and out?  Keep track of disk usage?  Or are they reading _every_ piece  
of email sent to/from a user? Your claim about monitoring is vague, please be  
more clear.  I am tired of the sys admins always being the bad guys because  
everyone is spouting "right to privacy."  This might be hard to accept, but  
privacy and monitoring can coexist, as long as the monitoring has a legitimate  
purpose that is stated in a policy that the user has been made aware of and  
has agreed to.  We monitor disk quotas.  You can argue that is an invasion of  
privacy, and technically you are correct.  However, we are not monitoring the  
content of your files, just how much space they are taking up.  This is a  
necessary part of managing the system.  Enough said....

=>Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at  
Urbana-Champaign

--
Paul S. Sears                *  sears@uh.edu (NeXT Mail OK)
The University of Houston    *  suggestions@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXT
Engineering Computing Center *  comments, complaints, questions)
NeXT System Administration   *  DoD#1967 '83 NightHawk 650SC 
          >>> SSI Diving Certification #755020059 <<<
"Programming is like sex: One mistake and you support it a lifetime."
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk