HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:46:33 EDT
From:         JFCOVALE@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      data bases
Comments: To: ethics-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

In the form it is asked, Woody's question sseems sort of odd: is the EXISTENCE
of such a data base a good or bad thing?  If it brings long-lost friends
together for teh first time in twenty years, it's probably a good thing.  If
it's used to sell good life insurance ot people who want and need it, it might
be a good thing.  If it's used to con people out of their life savings, then
it's obviously a bad thing, right?  But if it's all the same thing, that makes
no sense?  Ethical behavior does not lie in the world; it lies in us as we act
in the world.  Computers do not invalidate the demands ethical principles place
upon us; they merely create new circumstances in which those demands are made.
Data, like guns, cars, pencils, and just about every other product of human
ingenuity, can be used toward ends ethical or unethical, acording to the will
of the individual acting.


****************************************************************
*                                                              *
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*      Cultural Foundations of Education and Curriculum        *
*  259 Huntington Hall                                         *
*  Syracuse University                 Maloff Towers, #2       *
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Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"ETHICS-L%POLYVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:25:24 GMT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was ETHICS-L@POLYVM
From:         "Mark P. Neely,
              Northern Territory University" <NEELY_MP@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject:      RE: the ethics of mailing lists...
Comments: To: ETHICS-L%POLYVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

>        If I remember correctly, there was a company not long ago working with
>a credit agency (I believe it was TRW) to produce a list such as the one you
>mention.  To avoid lawsuits, the company publicized the project and offered
>to delete any records from the list if the consumer mailed them a card
 requestin
>   g
>such an operation.  The mail got so thick the project was cancelled.

Remember also Lotus's attempt to market a CD-ROM of similar info?

>        Additionally, phone book lists are almost always copyrighted by their
>publishers.  Unless DAK bought the lists from all those bokos concerned, they
>may be getting themselves into a whole lot of trouble.  As you say, however,
>since they're entering bankruptcy court, they may simply not care one way or
>another.

I seem to recall recent litigation (and I forget whether it was US or Aust.
*blush* but I am almost certain it was US) which held that there was _no_
copyright in the compilation of information in Phone Books (merely, I should
imagine, in the format in which it was designed).

Mark N.

                    Mark Neely  neely_mp@darwin.ntu.edu.au
    	Articled Clerk & Tutor - Law School, NTU, Darwin NT Australia
DISCLAIMER: The views expressed herein are my own. They do not reflect the views
of my firm nor those of the University. Unless otherwise indicated, the contents
are not a formal legal opinion or advice.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Acknowledge-To:  WHMurray@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 11:39:00 EDT
From:         WHMurray@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject:      White Pages Database
Comments: To: ETHICS-L%UGA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>Is this a good thing?  A bad thing?  Or just another inevitable step of no
>ethical consequence toward our information society?

I am afraid that it is an inevitable consequence and, in itself,
ethically neutral.  What we are talking about here is the impact
of technology on price.  The information has always been available
at some price; that is how DAK got it.  What we are seeing here
is a POPULAR price.

On the other hand, ask yourself about the alternatives.  One is a continued
high price at which it will continue to be available to those who would
create a mailing list, but not available to your public library.  Another
would be government regulation which would create both an artificially high
price for one use, an artificially low price for another, the creation of
both bureaucracy and a constituency for it, and the transfer fo more power
to the government.  The ability of the government to regulate the flow of
one kind of information is likely to result in the acretion of power to
control other kinds.

There has always been a contention between the privacy of the individual
and the intent of society to regulate their behavior.  Likewise, there has
been a contention between the power of the government to control the flow
of information and the right of the people to know.

This society has led all others in erring on the side of the free flow of
information.  My own observation is that the American people are more
prepared to tolerate some intrusion in the name of efficiency.  For example,
they are prepared for the credit granters to have ready access to information
about them in the name of instant credit.  Likewise, they are ready to
tolerate a little intrusion in their lives as long as it is not by
government.  They are ready to tolerate a little disorder in order to
resist the irreversible transfer of power to the government.

If we change our minds, we will change the social order.  We will likely
make up our minds slowly, and implement the changes gradually.  This is
called conservative change.  It is particularly appropriate if the
changes are likely to be difficult to undo.

William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security
49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104, New Canaan, Connecticut 06840
203 966 4769, WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"ETHICS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  ACC_BJG
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:41:00 CDT
From:         Brooks Grainger <ACC_BJG@VALPO.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: the ethics of mailing lists...

Mark,

The cas e  that you talk about was in the US and as Irecall it is only the
format of the information that is protected, not the actual information.

Brooks G.
acc_bjg@valpo
Xref: sparky bit.listserv.ethics-l:668 bit.listserv.sos-data:178 ne.general:2396
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:12:20 EDT
From: David L. Passmore <DLP@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l,bit.listserv.sos-data,ne.general
Subject: Human Subjects Workshop Correction

October 28 is the correct date for the Human Subjects workshop to be
offered by the Northeastern Educational Research Association.
Other information posted about thw workshop is correct as far as my aged
brain figure it out. My error.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:55:21 EDT
From:         Cal <PRYLUCK@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject:      RE: the ethics of mailing lists...
Comments: To: Discussion of Ethics in Computing <ETHICS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              3 Sep 1992 18:25:24 GMT from <NEELY_MP@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU>

More on CD-ROM phone directories.  DAK is not the only firm marketing such
disks.  The law seems a bit fuzzy on the point of copyright for directories
(says this non-lawyer).  The United States law is clear on the notion that
data cannot be copyright but the format of such data can be.

My guess is that DAK bought the overstock from one of the entrepreneur's
who thought that a CD-ROM phone directory would be a good idea.

Whether a mailer uses the ROM disk is almost irrelevant.  Most larger
mailing list houses have general population lists that are more finely
indexed than the phonebook.  Do you want a list of middle-aged accountants
who live in high rent districts?  Mailing list firms can give it to you
for a relatively modest fee.  You want such people who drive Cadillacs?
That will cost you a bit more, but not much.

Cal Pryluck
who knows these things from a misspent young adulthood working
in direct mail way back even before computers made these classifications
easy.
X-Envelope-to: ethics-l@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ethics-l@uga.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 10:10:00 EDT
From:         BM2762@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Subject:      the ethics of mailing lists...

        To answer woody's questions:
        I would agree that mailing lists such as the one you mention are
certainly consequences of our dossier society... by that I mean that each and
every one of us has lots of little tidbits of info that can be organized and
used by everyone from the Secret Service down to the local grocery store.
Surprisingly, this has been going on for a hell of a lot longer than we think,
and simply because it is now affordable to do it really makes very little
difference from an ethical standpoint(although from a junk-mail/ practical
view this becomes a real, tangible problem.)

        If I remember correctly, there was a company not long ago working with
a credit agency (I believe it was TRW) to produce a list such as the one you
mention.  To avoid lawsuits, the company publicized the project and offered
to delete any records from the list if the consumer mailed them a card requestin
   g
such an operation.  The mail got so thick the project was cancelled.

        Additionally, phone book lists are almost always copyrighted by their
publishers.  Unless DAK bought the lists from all those bokos concerned, they
may be getting themselves into a whole lot of trouble.  As you say, however,
since they're entering bankruptcy court, they may simply not care one way or
another.

        Finally, with this type of information available openly on the common
market, I ask each of you to consider the price and availability of black market
data.  As lists become easier to collate and maintain, prices drop, and laws
will easily fall by the wayside in our rush to sieze the information we need.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:13:00 EDT
From:         "Peter C. Vernam" <pcv1584@MVS.DRAPER.COM>
Subject:      Re: Xterminal security!

>A sceurity question came up about the use of using local
>window manager and local telnet client on Xterminals(not only IBM
>xterminals). It has
>been said that it is possible to remotely inspect the
>keyboard buffer on a xterminal, ARE there any security
>risks concerning only the Xterminal, that is without the problems
>of the ethernet itself.

The following is true for ANY X server, not just X terminals:

Anyone who has permission to connect to your X server (via the
XOpenDisplay() routine) can find out anything they want about your X
sessions.  In particular, they can run an X client that gets all of the
keyboard events and, hence, can capture any passwords that you enter
(e.g., from within an xterm when telnet-ing to another host).  (They
cannot "inspect the keyboard buffer", but capturing all of the keyboard
events is equivalent in terms of what they can learn.)  This X client
does not have to open any windows on your screen, so it is essentially
invisible to you.

Note that, if your X server is on the Internet and you have issued the
"xhost +" command, then anyone else on the Internet (anywhere in the
world!) can capture your keyboard events.  This is the reason for the
new security mechanisms added in R4 and R5 (do "man Xsecurity" for a
description, if you have the MIT man pages).  These security mechanisms
only work if the clients you are running are of a compatible release
level.  If you are running AIX 3.1 X clients (X11R3-based), you are
stuck with only being able to restrict (via the xhost command) the hosts
from which clients can be run.


Peter Vernam                              Email: vernam@draper.com
Draper Laboratory, Inc.                   Voice: 617-258-2735
555 Technology Square                     Fax:   617-258-2705
Cambridge, MA 02139
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:01:48 MESZ
From:         Raymond Koluvek <R02RDK@DHHDESY3.BITNET>
Subject:      Xterminal security!

A sceurity question came up about the use of using local
window manager and local telnet client on Xterminals(not only IBM
xterminals). It has
been said that it is possible to remotely inspect the
keyboard buffer on a xterminal, ARE there any security
risks concerning only the Xterminal, that is without the problems
of the ethernet itself.

-Ray
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:12:31 -0400
From:         bob@MOJO.NIEHS.NIH.GOV
Subject:      edt keymappings w/ X11R5 xterm
X-To:         aix-l%pucc.bitnet@uga.cc.uga.edu

OK - last dumb question of the day.  I now have xterm, from X11r5;
I'm very pleased w/ it & how much more easily I can use eve on
our evil vaxes.  However... a co-worker uses EDT from her rs6000
as her vax editor.  How & where can you define, redefine the
keymappings that xterm uses so that the connection more closely
resembles a vt100 in fact.  Thanks to all of you out there who
have been making life much easier for us here w/ our rs6000s at
niehs.
Bob bob@mojo.niehs.nih.gov
ps (you know w/edt - stupid things like "find", gold key, etc..,)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:16:50 -0400
From:         Robert Williams BCS <RJWILLIA@ESTEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Auto-logoff after 5 min.

 *** Reply to note of 92-08-26 12:00
 read about the TIMEOUT variableset for your shell

 regards,

 End of Message
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:07:40 +0200
From:         lune MARTINEZ Philippe <scos742@LUNE.CCVR.FR>
Subject:      User_attributes
X-To:         aix-l@pucc.princeton.edu

    Hi,


   For a security application, I'm trying do get some informations
about users and I can't find the system call or library call.

   The informations are :

        time_last_login
        time_last_unsuccessful_login
        tty_last_login
        tty_last_unsuccessful_login
        host_last_login
        host_last_unsuccessful_login
        unsuccessful_login_count

   The 'lsuser' command can find them; there's certainly a way
to have it but the documentation (with 'info') is very poor.

   Thanks in advance.



================================================================================
                                                      ----->
   Philippe MARTINEZ                    CCCCC   222   V   V  RRRR
   C2VR - Ecole Polytechnique           C      2   2  V   V  R   R
   91128 PALAISEAU Cedex                C        22    V V   RRRR
         FRANCE                         C       22     V V   R  R
                                        CCCCC  22222    V    R   R
   Tel : (33) 1 69 33 43 88
   Fax : (33) 1 69 33 30 18             Centre de Calcul Vectoriel
   Email : phm@ccvr.fr                      pour la Recherche

================================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:19:29 BST
From:         Derek Jones <derek@AIVRU.SHEF.AC.UK>
Subject:      [derek@aivru.sheffield.ac.uk: xxgdb, Xaw,
              Xmu = missing functions]

Some while ago I said:

Hi,

I started to build xxgdb on an RS6000, but I'm getting tired .... !

I hand built the Xaw and Xmu stuff from /usr/lpp/mumble....
but they are missing required functions, (as is Xt 8-( 8-( ).

I spent a couple of hours iteratively patching this by hand but gave
up at 7PM last night (!).

Has anyone had xxgdb working on an RS6000 under its native X ?
Alternatively, has anyone got a patched Xt, Xaw, and Xmu with appropriate
header files?

Or is it just another "can't be done" problem ..... ?

Help !

please

Thanks

Derek Jones.

System Manager.
A.I. Vision Research Unit, Sheffield University, Western Bank,
Sheffield.  S10 2TN. U.K.
Tel: (+44) (0)742 768555 X 6551  	email:  derek@aivru.sheffield.ac.uk
FAX: (+44) (0)742 766515

Did anyone have any answers to this they were keeping to themselves??? 8-) .
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:15:10 MEZ
From:         Heinz-Ruediger Oberhage <PHY070@DE0HRZ1A.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Auto-logoff after 5 min.
              26 Aug 1992 11:56:07 +0200 from
              <gerling@FAUPT101.PHYSIK.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>

I can offer a (small) part of an answer:
For ksh there exists an environment-varible TMOUT.
You can set it up to the number (of seconds if memory serves me right)
a user can be idle within the ksh, before this ksh is exited, which
usually (primary shell) mean s/he is logged out.

This does not work within another application; so it can be a usefull
feature, but is sometimes not enough. If it is for you, you have to
decide yourself.

Greetings,
 Ruediger Oberhage


H.-R. Oberhage
Mail: Univ.-GH Essen             E-Mail:    phy070@vm.hrz.Uni-Essen.DE
      Fachbereich 7 (Physik)      (expires '93: PHY070@DE0HRZ1A.BITNET)
      S05 V07 E88
      Universitaetsstrasse 5     Phone: {+49|0} / 201 / 183-2493
      D-4300 Essen 1, Germany
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:39:25 -0400
From:         "Rob McAteer" <rob@CSI.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: 8 mm tape
              "Norbert.Conrad@HRZ.UNI-GIESSEN.DBP.DE" at Sep 3, 92 2:20 am

> FAQ says we need a 3rd party device driver, too. But that was AIX 3.1.x .
That is true, AIX 3.1.x could only support IBM drives, something about the
SCSI device description expected by AIX for 8mm tape drives.
> Is AIX 3.2 capable of handling 3rd party 8 mm tapes, maybe even 5 Gb
> drives?
We have tried out some 'stock' 2.3G tape Exa-byte drives with
varying degrees of success.  The drives which supported compression had some
problems.  Compression is controlled by a front panel switch, so the tape
being read must be compatable with the switch state (ie if the tape was
written with compression on, then compression had to be turned on before
it could be read).  Seems trivial, but it did provide *us* with some grief.
The non-compressing drives worked fine.
--
Rob McAteer                                   CAnet: rob@csi.on.ca
Carp Systems International                    Voice: (613) 592-5780
600 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 200                  Fax: (613) 592-0584
Kanata, Ontario, Canada     K2L 4B6
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:42:02 MES
Reply-To:     zeller@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
From:         "Ch. Zeller" <Zeller@RUS.UNI-STUTTGART.DE>
Subject:      AIX3.2 "infod"

Hello all,

In AIX 3.2 there is a new daemon "infod" which is started in /etc/inittab.
Who knows what's the task of infod, there is no documentation. If i kill
infod, info nevertheless runs with one difference. My Homedirectory is in
an AFS-Filesystem, so only processes with a valid AFS Token can write
to my $HOME. If i call info without running infod everything works ok, i can
save my preferences in $HOME. But if infod is running i can't. So i decided
to live without infod. Have i to expect any difficulties when running my system
without infod?

Any Hints? Thank's for every help

--
Dr. Christoph Zeller             e-mail: ZRSE@DS0RUS1I.BITNET
Computing center                       : zeller@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
University of Stuttgart          phone : +49 711 685 5955
Allmandring 30                   FAX   : +49 711 682357
D 7000 Stuttgart 80
Germany
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:27:06 -0400
From:         "Rob McAteer" <rob@CSI.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Limit of MAX VGs and MAX FileSystems per machine
              Sep 2, 92 3:29 pm

>       Does AIX have a limit on the maximum number of File
> Systems defined? (Note not mounted).
There is a maximum number of physical volumes that can be in one
volume group... 8 I believe.
--
Rob McAteer                                   CAnet: rob@csi.on.ca
Carp Systems International                    Voice: (613) 592-5780
600 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 200                  Fax: (613) 592-0584
Kanata, Ontario, Canada     K2L 4B6
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:40:57 -0400
From:         fouilhe@CCPNRS1.IN2P3.FR
Subject:      looking at cpu usage for dead children in uarea
X-To:         aix-l@pucc.princeton.edu

The Centre de Calcul de l'IN2P3 has set up a batch cluster of RS/6000 and
HP/9000 to run simulation jobs in nuclear and high-energy physics.
We use NQS, and on top of it, to cope with NQS shortcomings, we developped
BQS (BASTA Queueing System, BASTA standing for BAtch STAtions). In particular,
BQS monitors job resource usage and cancels jobs going beyond their requested
time limit.

I have problems trying to know exactly what the cpu usage is for a group of
processes at any time, particularly when some child processes in the group
already has terminated.

I have 2 solutions for RS/6000, one of them works on HP too.

Question 1:
   I believe the common solution may be dangerous and I would like to know your
   opinion. It consists of using ptrace from a root process to look at the
   uarea of any other process. This stops the target process and I cant figure
   out if this is harmless for it.

The 2nd solution for RS is to use undocumented system calls (getproc and
getuser).

Question 2: do you know how to get information on these and other undocumented
   system calls ?
Question 3: do you know if there are equivalent system calls for HP-UX ?

Question 4: do you know any other solution ?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Here follows a more precise description of the problem, read it only if you
are interested.

This is what I understood and may not be very accurate.
Each BQS running job is made of a process group. In theory tools like "ps -g"
should display the cpu usage of each process in the group.
The cpu usage of each process is kept in its entry in the process table and
also always in the kernel virtual address space and remains accessible to
anybody thru well known system calls or commands.
Besides this process table entry, each process has got a swappable uarea where
process data  are kept which are not needed for "swapping in" the process again.
In a process uarea, cpu consumptions for each dead child are accumulated.
And these fields are not displayed by "ps -g" or any documented system call
except ptrace.
In the BQS context, if a job consists of a script calling sequentially module1
then module2,
   when module1 is running "ps -g" may display
         1 second cpu usage for the script
      1000                  for module1
   then module1 exits
   when module2 is running "ps -g" may display
         2 second cpu usage for the script
       100                  for module2
       with no trace of what was used by module1, though it is stored
       into the "script" uarea at module1 death.


Regards.

Yves Fouilhe                            fouilhe@ccpnrs1.in2p3.fr
Centre de Calcul de l'IN2P3             fouilhe@frcpn11.in2p3.fr
29 Bd du 11 Novembre 1918
69622 Villeurbanne
France
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