From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:12:13 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug11135524@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.014832.2544@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>   I disagree.  While the Irgun and LEHI, which you describe as terrorist
>>   organizations, disbanded or reformed into a legitimate government (or
>>   at least as legitimate as any other government), the PLO continues it's
>>   terrorist campaign against uninvolved passers-by, refusing to renounce
>>   terrorism either in it's written Covenant or in practice.
>
>That is simply because the Palestinians have no country to form a
>legitimate government in.

Actually, they have some kind of elections in Jordan, they say, but
this doesn't seem to have helped.  It was Palestineans that
assasinated King Hussein's grandfather, King Abdullah, and later it
was Palestineans that started the Intifada in Jordan that resulted in
nearly 10,000 dead in a single month (Black September).  Then they
went and tried to form a "Legitimate government" in Lebanon, resulting
in the total ruination of that lovely country.

It doesn't seem to be a lack of venue that is causing the Palestineans
to pursue terrorism so avidly.

>>   The Zionists that fought the British primarily fought the British 
>>   military.  It is worthy of note that the British fought back, too.
>
>They killed plenty of Arabs and British civilians too, Jake.  I don't
>know how you can say that the Zionist terrorists fought mostly the
>British military.

Because they did.  And I notice that you stil call the Zionists terrorists.

>>   The PLO (and Hamas, the Shebab and the other violent Palestinean Arab 
>>   groups) primarily fight citizens.
>
>As soldiers are citizens, you are right.

Your attitude on this is straight out of Syrian and Yemeni foreign
policy.  They forbid Jews to leave their territory lest they join the
enemy.  The same attitude in the PLO leads to Israeli school buses
being labeled as "legitimate military targets".  You are sick, Eggert.

>>  In previous postings, YOU have described
>>   actions of war by Zionists/Israelis as terrorism, attempting to 
>>   blur the difference between the understandable and the inexcusable.
>>   I merely pointed out that war and terrorism are different.  The 
>>   Zionists and the PLO have NOT behaved the same way.
>
>The former committed terrorism for the Jews, the latter against them.
>I guess that is different.  But the only reason you characterize the
>former as "understandable" and the latter as "inexcusable" is because
>of your own bias.

No, because war and terrorism are both abhorrent, but they are still
not the same.  And don't YOU talk about bias!

>>   >What article of war recognizes the murder of passersby and
>>   >political figures as the _principle_ method of belligerency?
>>
>>   Ask Yasser Arafat.  ...
>
>No, Jake, I am asking you.  The Zionist terrorists targeted civilians
>and British leaders in their attacks.  

Even if Zionist attacks did hurt civilians, they are not the same as
the deliberate, murderous and proudly malicious attacks that the PLO
has been dumping on the Israelis, the Jews and the rest of the world
for several decades.  You cannot equate them.

>You are trying to change the subject.

Actually, it is YOU, Mr. Eggert, who have just tried this.  You
carefully edited out my questions to you:

  >Ask Yasser Arafat.  He is the one that routinely described school 
  >buses in Israel as "military targets".  As for political figures,
  >is it American, French and Israeli diplomats and embassies that 
  >get blown up or Arab targets?  Are these acts of Arab terrorism
  >or war?

You're still hung up on trying to call the Israelis terrorists, I see.


>>   The pre-1949 Zionists fought a military force.  This is consistant 
>>   with everything that non-revisionists would call a war.
>
>They also attacked Arab passersby, the British police, British civilian
>leaders, a UN peace representative, and civilian infrastructure.  This
>is inconsistent with your revisionist characterization of their
>activities as war.

Umm, most of the countries of the world recently united in a military
effort against Iraq that did most of these same things.  In your view,
is the whole world terrorist?  (I am starting to think that in your
view it probably is.)

Again, you seem to have edited out my paragraph:

  >The pre-1995 PLO has fought individuals, Arab and Jew alike, often
  >killing people who have nothing to do with their grievance, like
  >tourists and airline passengers.  This is consistant with terrorism.
  >Except for people who can't tell the difference.

Jim Eggert, you are positively obsessed with the idea of branding
Israel as a terrorist state.  You truly need help.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.