HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pmk@moliere.uucp (Peter Michael Klausler)
Subject: Re: Couple of quick questions...
Organization: Lilydale DFL Refreshments Committee & Rhythm Section
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:39:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.064340.3528@nic.csu.net> steve@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell) writes:
>>The more you slosh hot wort about, the more likely it is to oxidize.  This 
>>causes it to taste bad.
>
>Not true (in that, oxidation is not a bad thing).  Your yeast need
>oxygen during the initial phases of fermentation.
>
>It is after the beer is fermented that oxidizing should be avoided.
>Specifically, oxidation should be avoided at bottling time.

It is important to distinguish hot wort aeration from chilled wort aeration.
Yes, the O2 is essential to the aerobic phase of fermentation - but it need
not be introduced prior to chilling.
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________

"Omit needless words."                 Peter Klausler - pmk%moliere@uunet.uu.net
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:01:17 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. -- Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

nothing a bullet in the belly couldn't cure (stewarte@sco.COM) wrote:
OS/2> 
OS/2> Hmm, so Compuserve subscribers get the (perhaps dubious) benefit
OS/2> of our wit & wisdom, but we can't receive theirs?  Seems unfair.
OS/2> I guess now I know why some folks put disclaimers on their Usenet
OS/2> postings to the effect that they can be reproduced anywhere except
OS/2> on commercial services.

What good does that do?  You have absolutely no means of enforcing 
such restrictions.  I too am a bit annoyed that Compuserve takes
advantage of the net without providing any services in return,
but there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  I feel
the same way about those leaches who make CD-ROMs out of FTP
archives and sell them.

Cheers,

Chris

--
Christopher Mauritz                 | My views reflect those of my
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | company since I own the company.
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | Ritz International, Inc.
OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2  | Import/Export Consultants
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: larry@physics.carleton.ca
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Organization: Dept. of Physics/CRPP Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:14:38 GMT


 cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) wrote:
In article <1992Dec11.150044.17232@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, john@ice.stx.com
 (John DiMarzio) writes:
|> 
|> I have heard alot of talk on this newsgroup lately about improper aeration 
|> of the wort being the cause of stuck fermentations.   Since I
|> am about to begin my first batch, I would like to know if anyone has any 
|> tips on aerating the cooling wort.  I will be using a 5 gal glass carbouy
|> for fermentation.  
|> 
|> I have looked for aeration tips in the faq and in Papazian and found none.  
|> Papazian says to mix the wort by turning the carboy on its side and 
|> rolling it.  Is this sufficient for aeration as well as mixing? 


>I've found that when using a carboy as a primary, after pouring in
>the cooled wort (you don't want to add a hot wort to a glass vessel,
>or aerate a hot wort in any case), as long as the carboy isn't filled
>right to the neck, good agitation can be achieved by simply tilting
>the carboy a little so that it is resting on the lower 'edge' (don't
>do this directly on concrete) and rocking the carboy back and worth.
>You can get a good froth worked up - which implies aeration.  My 
>fermentations are brisk and vigorous (using starters helps). It should
>be noted that this places a certain amount of stress on the carboy
>and hence there is a certain amount of risk involved. 

This is what I do to aerate the wort as well.  I put it on a carpet, hold
on to neck well, and tilt/rotate it.  There should be minimal risk if its
on a soft surface.  I've heard Papazian himself say that he does this too.

> I haven't heard
>of a carboy rupturing due to this treatment. ****HOWEVER****, || one
>evening while aerating a wort I must have tilted it (demijohn) slightly 
>more than
>usual and it burst like a water balloon.
>5 imperial gallons of fresh wort on my kitchen floor.  I suppose
>I should be thankful that it was only an extract brew with no grains.
>Had it been an all grain batch, I would have probably thrown myself onto
>the broken demijohn and made an end of it.  The horror..... sometimes,
>I still wake up screaming.

put a homebrew under your pillow.

-Larry
From: atkinson@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:45:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: vaxb.1992Dec14.124545.1
Organization: University of North Texas


>perhaps there is something that we could all put in our .sig files
>that would prohibit it being reposted on CI$

>gob


Let me suggest that we could go about this slightly differently.

If we attach the following rider, it seems that commercial services
will either not reproduce the rec.crafts.brewing postings since
honoring our rider would cause violations of their ban, or,
hopefully, they might relax their ban on reproducing their
postings:

"This Posting is hereby placed in the public domain, and may be
copied (manually or electronicly) freely from any location,
including commercial services which have made copies".

After all, we brewers are a good lot, conscientious recyclers (just
look at all the bottles we don't throw away) and simply want to
share (pool) our knowledge...a virtuous goal that no jury would
argue with!


COMMENTS? QUESTIONS? ANSWERS?  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My opinions have evolved over a lifetime, and will, hopefully,
continue to change.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------
Samuel F. Atkinson               atkinson@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Center for Remote Sensing
University of North Texas        phone: 817-565-2694
Denton, Texas  76203             fax:   817-565-4297
----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Re: Help
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:41:56 GMT

In article <1gkk3gINN1l6@cad17.genrad.com> aaa@cad17.genrad.com (Andy A. 
Alvino) writes:
> 1)  About yeast starters:  I know that you boil a 1.020 wort, cool, and add 
> the contents of the swollen liquid yeast package.  But what about 
> fermentation?  Is the bottle open, covered with foil, or is an air lock
> used?

I always use a glass jar with a loose plastic lid.  I haven't had an 
infection yet.  Probably anything but an open container would work.

You can also put the starter into a sanitized large plastic bag and seal 
tightly.

> Also, what about temperature?  Does the type of yeast, ale or lager, 
> dictate the starter fermentation temperature?

Yeast shouldn't be shocked with drastic changes in temperature, so it's 
best to do the starter at the fermentation temperature.

> 2)  I'm about to make my first lager.  Is 50 F a suitable temperature for 
> fermentation?

I do lagers much colder, around 40 F.  50 F should give reasonable results.

> After bottling, at what temperature are the bottles stored at, 
> 50 F or room temperature (65 - 70 F).

Store them cold.

> 3)  About sanitation:  Is boiling utensils better than a bleach/water rinse?
> What about B-Brite, is this stuff any good?

Boiling sterilizes.  Bleach only santizes.  Practically, there isn't much 
difference.

The risk of bleach/water is that the rinse water might be infected.  I 
always bleach followed by soaking in water with food-additive grade 
sanitizing tablets such as can be purchased in restaurant supply houses.

I've used B-Brite.  It seems to work.

Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Kegs
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 02:16:31 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1992Dec16.142052.3544@nic.csu.net> (rec.crafts.brewing), steve@caticsuf.csufresno.edu (Steve Mitchell) writes:
) 
) Okay, I give.  What's the net.wisdom on getting ones hands
) on cheap soda kegs?  I've been talking all afternoon and 
) still haven't found anybody who will sell me kegs.

Homebrew shops carry them, obviously.  If you want new Cornelius kegs,
you can get them by mail order from places like Brewers Warehouse
in Seattle.  Used Cornelius kegs can be had by mail order for about
1/2 the price of new ones.  Check the classifieds in Zymurgy.

=======================================================================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Ale vs. Lager
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:37:44 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <jdecarlo.466.723916955@mitre.org> (rec.crafts.brewing), jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo) writes:
) In article <droberts-081292173024@spl4.mcl.bdm.com>
)  droberts@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com (David Roberts) writes:
) 
) >Can anyone explain to me the difference between ales and lagers in terms of
) >technique and taste?
) 
) Well, if you use an ale yeast at ale temps with a lager recipe, you will end 
) up with more of the fruity type flavors in there from higher temperature 
) fermentation.  

True.

) An intermediate style is the "steam" or "california common" where you use a 
) lager yeast at ale temps, which won't give quite as many additional fruity 
) flavors as using an ale yeast.

No ... (yikes!) ... if you use just any ol' lager yeast at 70-75F
you will have a mighty unlovely brew when you're done.  The dirty,
muddy, semi-phenolic "steam" character will be UNappealing.  I'd suggest
using an appropriate "steam" yeast and keeping the fermentation temperature
between 55 and 65F.

) Higher temperatures increases the production of esters and other higher 
) alcohols (right term?) that can be tasted.

Not exactly.

) Lagers try to minimize these by cool fermentation, lager yeasts, and 
) extended cool storage (lagering), to get what is generally described as 
) "clean", "crisp", etc. flavor profile.

In general most of the weird flavors produced by the yeast don't really
go away in a beer, they just get better balanced.  Aging allows insoluble
(and murky-tasting) hops, yeast and wort-related stuff to settle out.  
It also allows the yeast to finish metabolizing other compounds, e.g.,
diacetyl.

Lagers taste clean because (very roughly) the fruity character associated 
with ales is absent, and the beer is typically freer of dissolved/suspended
matter.

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
-----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own-----
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Keywords: should I worry? ;-)
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:41:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9260
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR


 >>>>    2) After chilling the wort, the copper comes out gleaming.
 >>This would worry me.  I have a copper tube that never changes color when
 >>I use it to chill my wort.
 >>Copper will give off flavor at a certain level, but
 >>really shouldn't dissolve into beer.
 >
 >While I don't know about the oxides in your beer, any copper released in 
 >your wort is likely to be absorbed (used??) by the yeast, according to 
 >previous posts on the subject of copper in the wort.

I've been wondering if maybe it's not really a case of the oxide
coating "going somewhere", e.g. into the wort...is it possible that it's
being reduced back to elemental copper?

In other words..."copper being un-oxidized", rather than "copper oxide
being removed".
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Tubing [Re: Gleaming immersion chiller]
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:52:00 GMT

In article <01050166.laei1t@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us> joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us writes:
>
>In article <7964@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> (rec.crafts.brewing), alh@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Al Hooton) writes:
>) [.........] Perhaps stainless 
>) >steel tubing would be a better material for wort chillers. Does anyone know a 
>) >good source of SS tubing $$^(?
>) 
>) 	Hmmm... bending SS tubing seems a *lot* harder than bending copper
>) tubing.  Lots of different characteristics.  Obviously, it can be done,
>) but not with a simple $5.95 spring-style tubing bender (which is what
>) I bend copper tubing with). [etc.]
>
>Personally I'm sort of on the lookout for a supply of titanium tubing.
>Seems that saltwater-contact heat exchangers are made out of it. 
>I'm thinking more in terms of making an immersion chiller that I can
>stick down the neck of a carboy.

I suspect that if you can afford titanium tubing, you could probably
afford a commercial chiller...
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
From: silver.e@zooid.guild.org (Eric Silver)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Wanted: source for grains
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:26:29 GMT

From: waflowers@quantum.on.ca (Bill Flowers)
>I've finally decided to make the move from extract brewing to partial
>mash (and eventually all-grain) but I have a problem; my local home
>brew supplier has a pitiful stock of grains with no real selection. 
>No Vienna malt, no cara pils, no German or Belgian or British malts.
>The only crystal malt available is an unknown Lovibond, but is very
>dark.
>
>Where do the grain brewers around here (Ottawa, CA) get their grains?
>I'm in Toronto frequently so if there is a source there I could bring
>it back with me.  If I have to I'll go to one of the US mail-order
>houses (hence the distribution on this message), but which ones would
>people recommend?  Are any of them known to ship to Canada?
>
This has probably been answered fifty million times already, BUT ...

United Canadian Malt Limited - 843 Park (Street?) South, Peterborough,
Ontario. (Hey, its Highway 7 - maybe not Kaladar but at least its 
Highway 7) (705) 876-9110  O.K. so I didn't get the (613) exchange!
OR
CANADA MALTING Company (Toronah or Toronto depending on where you're from)
21 Four Seasons Place (416) 620-7575.

Eric Silver - York, Upper Canada.
"Legitimize dissent in Canada!"
From: rmorgan@acs.bu.edu (Roderick Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Questions on Cornelius Kegs
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:17:46 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: rmorgan@acs.bu.edu

I have a question for all you gurus out there.  I am a novice brewer (5 batches). I have recently come across some cornelius kegs....
What equipment do I need to utilize them?  When beer is carbonating in them should they be kept under pressure? And what pressures should I work at?
By the way, does anyone have a recipe for oatmeal stout (Samuel Smith's is just too expensive).

thanks,

Rod Morgan.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: "james syniura" <james.syniura@canrem.com>
Subject: wanted: source for grains
Reply-To: "james syniura" <james.syniura@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:31:19 EST


BF>Where do the grain brewers around here (Ottawa, CA) get their grains?
BF>I'm in Toronto frequently so if there is a source there I could bring
BF>it back with me.  If I have to I'll go to one of the US mail-order
BF>houses (hence the distribution on this message), but which ones would
BF>people recommend?  Are any of them known to ship to Canada?
BF>
BF>I really want to take this next step, but without a source for
BF>supplies I'm stuck with extracts.  Help!
BF>--
BF>W.A. (Bill) Flowers                email: waflowers@quantum.qnx.com
BF>Quantum Software Systems, Ltd.     QUICS: bill     (613) 591-0934 (dat
BF>(613) 591-0931 (voice)             mail:  175 Terrence Matthews
BF>(613) 591-3579 (fax)                      Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 
BF>---

You could try the Wine Art store @ 2730 Iris St. in Ottawa. I am in 
Toronto and buy my supplies from a local Wine Art. They carry Munton
and Fison Malted Grains, from 250 gm to 25kg. They may have to order
the large sizes for you, and I find the quality very good. 

--

=========================================================================
James Syniura  | UUCP    : canrem!james.syniura                 | 
System Support | Internet: james.syniura%canrem.uucp@lsuc.on.ca | 
Bell Canada    | Others  : james.syniura@canrem.uucp            |
========================================================================= 
                     Toronto, Ontario, Canada, Earth.
=========================================================================
     The opinions expressed are my own and not the company I work for.
=========================================================================



---
  WinQwk 2.0 a#575  `:-| "Fascinating, Captain!" - Spock
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:22:00 -0500 
From: Sean.Smith@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: thanks alot
Distribution: world

YOU'LL PUT YOUR EYE OUT!!!!


--Sean ``Red Ryder BB Bitters'' Smith

:)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov (Joseph R. Trevathan)
Subject: Re: Tubing [Re: Gleaming immersion chiller]
Organization: NASA - JSC
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:07:43 GMT

In article <01050166.lb42i5@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us>, joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) writes:
> 
> 
> In article <1992Dec16.164811.7327@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> (rec.crafts.brewing), trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov (Joseph R. Trevathan) writes:
> ) Briefly paraphrased for relative magnitudes evidence:
> ) k for copper:  232 (mess/o' units)
> ) k for 300 and 400 series stainless steel:  ~10
> ) k for aluminum:  130
> ) k for silver:  242
> 
> OK, so post the number for titanium, wouldja?
> 

No prob--just let me dig out my handy-dandy Mark's Handbook:

k for titanium:  9 (mess/o'units)

Wouldn't be my first choice for a heat exchanger.

joe
trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov
From: ech@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Using bleach to sanitize
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:25:30 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <jdecarlo.497.724512192@mitre.org>, jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.184156.21922@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>
>  pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
> 
>>The risk of bleach/water is that the rinse water might be infected.  I 
>>always bleach followed by soaking in water with food-additive grade 
>>sanitizing tablets such as can be purchased in restaurant supply houses.
> 
> Yow!!!!!!
> 
> Please, folks, there is *no* need to rinse after using bleach, unless you 
> use too much of it.  Air-drying for ten or fifteen minutes should do the 
> trick completely.
> 
> Finally, if you need to rinse, find some of that cheap beer some "friend" 
> has brought to your house and use a can or bottle of that to rinse your 
> fermenter.  Not only is it sanitized, if not sterile, but it will also 
> absorb the stuff that real beer will.
> 
> John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
> Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org


	Sort of like a fancy restaurant that rinses the wine glasses with
chablis...
	Sorry, but I will have to argue the point.  There is a reason to rinse:
chlorophenols.  After soaking a carboy in bleach, letting it air dry not only
takes a long time, but may leave chlorine behind.  I like the beer-rinse
suggestion, but due to budgetary constraints...  I use lukewarm water and 
steri-clean to wash and sanitize, then upend the carboy on the bottle washer
and thoroughly hose the inside with HOT water.  Hot water removes the chlorine
better than cold (hense the tepid water when sanitizing).  Then I let the 
carboy drip-dry.  The chlorine content of tap water is insufficient for
sanitizing, but is sufficient for ensuring a low bacteria count in the rinse
water.  A thorough rinse with hot water should remove the chlorine sufficiently
to prevent detectable levels of chlorophenols.

	Rebuttals welcome
	Ed Hitchcock
	ech@ac.dal.ca

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:50:21 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

leighann@quetzal.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey) writes:
: Um, am I the only one to notice a seeming discrepancy between the two statements above
: Jack: "I'll post their stuff here!"
: Sysop: "By the way, you MAY NOT post our stuff there!"
: 
: Do what suits you, Jack, but don't get caught, eh?
 
That's pretty hopeless.  On of the first comments made on Compuserve was
someone asking if it was legal to to what I did.  Not email, but a public
question.  Kinda like waving a flag.
From: bfbrown@media.mit.edu (Brian F. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: TEACHING A CLASS
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:05:18 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory


Hi all,

I am teaching a basic homebrewing class during MIT's Independent
Activities Period.  I would appreciate any input anyone who has
taught such a class before would like to give.  

During the class (15 people, 15 brewing kits) we will (each) extract 
brew (but together), divy up, ferment, and bottle a simple batch.
My co-instructor and I will also discuss different aspects of zymurgy
(hard cider, wine, etc.), and various beer styles and ideas, as well
as all grain brewing.  Basically we will skim most of what Papazian
said...

Please e-mail any advice (I am an undergrad, and am going HOME for the
holidays) as a reply to this article, since I won't be on the net
for 2 weeks.  The class starts Jan. 7.

Happy Holidays everyone,

BB
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: copeland@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Copeland)
Subject: Re: DME
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:37:56 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <klumpp-161292180358@alexander.nbp.nwu.edu> klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp) Klumpp) (David Klumpp) writes:
>When doing all-extract with Laag, my fermentations often
>seem to stop ca. 1.020.  

Another data point my past two batches were all dry malt (not sure of brand)
and both stalled at low 20's SG.  tossed in 1/8 tsp of yeast nutrient to
get them into the high teens (the usual FG is ~16-18)

Jeff Copeland -- Atmospheric Science


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing