From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What About Tibet? (Re: What about China done to Korea)
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:14:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>My logic is Han people will not treat people better who are not regarded as  
>superior. The sad fact is Han people regard Tibetans at most as equal (if not  
>walk on the streets of Chinese cities and hear people talk about minorities, I >bet you won't find a single word about their superiority. Many times you will  
>hear words and sentences about how dirty, lazy and uncivilized some minorities >are. 

No doubt the government treats minorities better than Han, now the topic
is how ordinary people treat minorities, do those people look down them 
just because they are minorities?  No. 
The sad thing for minorities here is that no matter how well you do in 
your work, how clean you are, just because you are from a different race, 
people won't fully accept you, that is sad because you can never make a 
change.

>It's good to regard all peoples equal. But in China, not all the people think  
>this way. Some (if not many) people will feel happy and satisfied if they find >people "inferior" to them. If They can not find, they will make. 

Mr. Carl created a lot of "inferior" people at the end of his post.

>Take Shanghai for an example. In Shanghai, people look down upon people whose  
>ancesters were from northern Jiangshu Province. In some extreme cases, some  
>girls would not marry their fellow Shanghainese guys simply because the guys'  
>father or grandfather or even grand-grandfather were from northern Jiangshu.  
>The reason is probably northern Jiangshu was a poor area among eastern China  
>and the first generation from northern Jiangshu usually worked as labors. This >kind of discriminations are not rare in many parts of China. If China had  
>different races, I bet there would be racial discrimination too.

We are talking about how the Han treat minorities. 

>Some of us may still remember the incident happened in Nanjing several years  
>ago where a group foreign students from Africa were attacked by Chinese college
>students simply because these Africa students had Chinese girl-friends and made
>local people unhappy. If those African students had been white, there wouldn't 
>have been such incident. I would point out that some (if not many) CSS here  
>have racial discrimination too although they themselves might be discriminated 
>against in the meantime.

Mr. Carl always uses isolated case to verify his views. The western
contries (incluging US) even made a lot of laws against Chinese. Even
today, minority members are beating to death for nothing. 
I only heard of the incident mentioned above by Mr. Carl, but maybe we
can change "because they had Chinese girl-friend" to "because they 
prostitute Chinese girl and they show off before those Chinese". 

>I find it hard to believe that Han people treat Tibetans better as Ze Yang  
>said. Like some CSS, Ze Yang's opinion is very self-centered. People like him  
>always refuse to think from the other side. I guess this is of our "ugly" part 
>of Chinese culture. We Chinese used to think China as center of the world and  
>expect other peoples think this way too. This is impossible and unfair. When  
>some of us find other people have different or opposite opinions, they usually 
>feel insulted easily and attack back without logics and reasoning. I guess this
>is related to both our ugly part of culture and people's personalities.
>Carl

The ugly part of our Chinese culture is that Chinese are not agressive
enough, they lose their fight with the outside world, turn the
blame inward. 
I always feel I have difficulty to follow Mr. Carl's arguments, 
I always feel there are too many "jumps".
Also, Mr. Carl may comment directly if he doesn't like some
aspects of Chinese value, I always feel that Mr. Carl expresses
his negative feeling in a disguised way.

I am not saying that there is no discrimination in China, what I
am saying is that the Han people don't quit care much about
one's ethnic catogory and religious belief (at least for those
minority groups now lives in China), there is no discrimination
based on ethnical catogory or religious belief and also the government
treat them better than treat Han--what do you think of this, Mr. Carl?

Ze Yang