HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: Sign of the times
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:43:38 GMT

>> Westernized.  So did the American fathers (in the 60's) changed
>> diapers or is this a new phenomenon? ;-)  Maybe it's related to the
>> fact that most mothers work also now?
>> 
>> 
>Actually, I suspect this "phenomenom" is mostly due to the
>advent of disposable diapers and baby wipes, which makes
>changing a baby pretty easy and hard to do badly, even for
>the most diaper-impaired.
>[...]
>Diapering is no longer an ordeal.  The real test of fathers'
>(and grandfathers') "enlightenment" would be measuring how
>readily they'd change diapers the old-fashioned way.

I don't know, I think the best test is whether or not the you need to determine
if the father is "enlightened", or whether or not the role is just matter-of-
fact with no special significance attached.  Getting puked on, or dealing
with a tantrum in the supermarket haven't changed much (as far as experiences
go) since the 60's, but I suspect that more fathers deal with them now than
did then.

At least in the circle that I run with, it seems to be the two-working parent
syndrome which has redefined the father's role.  At our house, who gets up
in the night is usually decided by who has the earlier meeting the next 
day (as are daycare shuttle duty, etc.)  Almost everything we do is traded
back and forth as it makes sense (well, except for the nursing, when we
were still in that stage).  I don't see much difference between the two
parent's roles, and I certainly haven't heard of one spouse referring to 
what the other spouse was doing as "helping" with the child.

I'd be interested to hear if families with a stay-at-home parent feel that
the working parent is more "enlightened" today, etc.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
Subject: it's happened again, or why mom's hair is turning gray
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:02:00 GMT

Well, here it is two weeks until Christmas, and it has happened
again. My daughter wants fake spiders from santa. Yeah, right,
they're easy to find this time of year (not!). My son, yesterday,
asked for a teddy bear ring. I had no idea what that was, until
his sister appeared this morning at breakfast with one on - she
must have gotten it at a birthday party or something. I have no idea
where to look for one, and really hate shopping in toy stores
this late in the season. Now, before I get flamed, yes, my children
realize they can not have everything they ask for. And, in fact, my
daughter did ask for spiders last year and did not get them since I
could not find them. I guess I should have realized this would happen
and laid in a supply around Halloween. However, in my son's case, this
is the only thing he has asked for this year, and even though I have
purchased other toys for him, it would be nice to be able to fulfill
this one, inexpensive request. This same kind of thing happened
when my daughter was 3, and the only thing she asked for was 'cars
with blue wheels', like they had at daycare. However, those cars
were not available on the market, since they were a Discovery
Toys premium. Anyway, I guess I am not looking so much for advice
as commiseration. Does this happen to anyone else?
                        Patti Twigg
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: RABINOWITZ@BEAR.COM (Ari)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Do dcotors still spank newborns?
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:23:43 GMT
Organization: BEAR STEARNS & CO.
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <Bz9ouB.Ips@inews.Intel.COM> vnoronha@mipos3.intel.com writes:

> My girlfriend and I were talking a few days ago and she asked if I had a
> preference as to whether or not I wanted my baby spanked after birth.  I
> had just assumed that doctors are no longer performing this practice as
> no one seems to comment on it.  Is this an outdated practice or do doctors
> still do this?  If so, is it really necessary?

When I was working in a hospital a few years ago the story went out
about a OB resident who was delivering his first baby.  He picked the
baby up by its feet, upside down, to spank it to get the breathing
going.  Unfortunately, the baby slipped out of his hands and fell to the
table below.  The baby did start do cry, which was the desired result so
the resident tried to cover for himself by saying "That's pretty good,
sometimes we have to drop them three or four times before they cry".

He might have gotten away with it, except that the mother was the wife
of the chief resident.  I never found out what happened to that
resident, but I hope he changed specialities.

Ari

Ari Rabinowitz                  rabinowitz@bear.com for VMS and personal mail
WorkStation Administrator	ari@bear.com for sun/HP Un*x mail
Bear Stearns
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: Tamara Shaffer <SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Giftedness/Language
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:29:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

>From: kim@m44.unm.edu
>Message-ID: <jn!r55k@lynx.unm.edu>
>
>Dear Group:
>
>First, I acknowledge that all of us can post messages that start
>"Giftedness/something", since all our children are exceptional.
>
>Our daughter seems to be showing some proficiency with language at 1.5 y.o.,
>and we thought it might be fun to try and slip in a little French while she is
>at a stage where she won't know the difference.  I had once read/heard that two
>or more languages are more easily learned during this early time than
>later.
>
>We want to do this only if it is enjoyable to her and are trying not to
>have a lot of ego tied into it.
>
>Has anyone tried this?  What is it like?  Any suggestions or extra
>reading that can help make it a worthwhile experience for us?
>
>Daniel Kim
>KIM@FLOVAX.LANL.GOV
>
 
One of Melissa's teachers at her day care is bilingual (English &
Spanish).  She has taught Melissa several words in Spanish.  I have
encouraged Ruth to do so, since as you said, it will come naturally
to Melissa and she won't know the difference.  Melissa hasn't said
any of the Spanish words, but she clearly knows the meanings. (She
hasn't said the English words for these things either, BTW.)
 
TAMARA
mommy to Melissa (5/1/91) and ? (due 5/8/93)
From: saulnier@acadia.crd.ge.com (Emilie T. Saulnier)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: slow talker
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:47:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

I have a nephew who is 3+ years old who still has not really learned
to talk. He seems to have problems forming sounds and in fact can only
approximate a couple of one syllable words. In fact he mainly
communicates by using his own version of hand signals. Since he also
has very poor balance, one possibility is some problem with his ears
(although he does seem very responsive to verbal instructions) -
however his pediatrician has done some tests (i don't know which) in
the past and claimed that there is nothing wrong (the pediatrician's
view is that he is "just a slow talker").

Any comments/experiences/suggestions? They live in the Boston/Rhode
Island area so any suggestions on specialists in that area would also
be most welcome.

Emilie Saulnier
saulnier@crd.ge.com
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: how to take baby out in snow without a car?
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:00:47 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

We're digging out from our first snowfall now and I've just run into a
problem that I hadn't really anticipated.  How do I take the baby to
daycare in the morning when it's snowy?  I live about ten blocks from
my caretaker and usually walk the baby over in her stroller, but the
stroller doesn't work well with the snow.  Last year, she was very tiny
and I carried her in a snuggli, but she's too big for it now (15 months and
25 pounds.)  She's too heavy to carry the whole way in my arms, especially
when she squirms, and I'd really worry about falling on the ice.  She walks 
a bit, but she couldn't walk ten blocks in the snow.

To make things worse, I have to go down a fairly steep hill with a bridge,
and of course the bridge freezes even if it's relatively warm.

Buying a car isn't much of an option for me.  (This is in the Boston area,
BTW -- excellant public transit, crummy parking and roads.) I guess I could 
take cabs on the mornings when the sidewalks are icy, but I'm not excited 
about that solution.

The only thing I can think of is a back carrier, but I'm worried about
how it would change my balance (I'm clutzy anyway.)  I'm afraid if I
slipped on the ice, I'd fall back on the baby.  Someone suggested a sled,
but all that would do is make me mad at my neighbors who did shovel their
walks instead of being mad at the neighbors who didn't.  And I wouldn't
want to trust it on the bridge.

Some of you must get along without cars.  How do you manage taking your
children out?  Has anyone used a back carrier for winter transportation?
Did it effect your balance?  Is there much danger of hurting the baby?

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: johnnyb@flamingo.ims.com (Johnny Battle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Ear Infections
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:05:31 GMT
Reply-To: johnnyb@flamingo.ims.com
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems

In article 92Dec9130400@satyr.Sylvan.COM, tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>In article <4041@master.CNA.TEK.COM> judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake) writes:
>   (someone else writes:)
>   |> As to why so many doctors are prescribing antibiotics for chronic ear
>   |> infections, there are 2 reasons (1) they don't read and/or believe the
>   |> studies my brother saw and (2) many parents insist/want a prescription
>   |> even when there is no need.  It makes THEM feel better.
>
>   Actually, there are a couple more reasons: (3) the child actually does
>   have a very painful bacterial infection which can be quickly relieved 
>   by antibiotics, and (4) if left untreated, the ear infection could 
>   lead to irrepairable hearing loss.
>
>There have been studies showing that ear infections cleared up AT THE
>SAME RATE from antibiotics as if they were left alone. Of course,
>there's the side effects of the antibiotics effecting the immune
>system in various ways making the child more prone to the infections
>again. And, on top of it, the doctor only sees an 'ear inflammation'
>when he looks in with an earscope - if the fluid behind the ear in
>infected or not, and with what - that is anyone's guess.
 children become humane and strong."

A good reference on this issue is in the book, "How to Raise A Healthy Child
in Spite of Your Doctor," By Dr. Robert S. Mendelsohn.  The author was a
pediatrician for 30 years and an Assoc. Prof of Preventive Medicine at the 
Univ. of Ill. Medical School. He quotes studies showing that the use of
drugs to treat ear infections is not only unnecessary in most cases, but
is often counterproductive, since the drugs also reduce the body's natural
immune response.  He reccommends putting a little warm olive oil in
the ear to soothe a child's earache.  We followed that practice and it
worked quite well.

He is also against tympanostomy (tube insertion) in most cases.
He says that..."controlled studies have found that when both ears are 
infected, and a tube is inserted in only one of them, the outcome for
both ears is almost identical."  He further states that the operation
itself often causes scarring and hardening of the eardrum.
**************************************************************************
Johnny Battle
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: AMY.UHRBACH@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Amy Uhrbach")
Subject: re: ear infections
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:42:20 GMT

When Alex was younger (he's now almost 3) I could always tell when he had an
ear infection.  No fever, no ear pulling - he was just up ALL NIGHT (they
always hit at night) and completely inconsolable.  Howling in pain, nothing we
did helped.  Occassionally tylenol would help him sleep, and he'd be up like
clockwork, 3 1/2 hours later.  He used to get these all the time, and since
his hearing is impaired (unrelated- from birth), we treat any other threat to
his hearing aggressively.  The prophylactic dose of ceclor for 3 months did
help - necessary since the fluid wouldn't clear, and we couldn't get a good
hearing test until it did!

Lately he's only had a couple - those eustachian tubes are finally getting
bigger.  And each time he was much sicker from something else (pneumonia,
asthma) so we caught the infection before the pain (yes, we check his ears at
every doctor appointment).

Here's my plug for antibiotics, too - I DO know kids whose hearing was
PERMANENTLY damaged by unchecked repeated infections.  Not a risk I'm willing
to take!!
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sgauch@ccs.northeastern.edu (Susan Gauch)
Subject: You know you're a parent when...
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:52:00 GMT

you find yourself reading books to two stuffed animals (who are tucked
neatly into bed) and they change the pages!  

See, Laura is the "Mommy" and she went to "work" and I was the
"babysitter" and ...
-- 
Susan Gauch
sgauch@flora.ccs.northeastern.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: stadt@cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt)
Subject: Re: Do dcotors still spank newborns?
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:54:23 GMT

In article <Bz9ouB.Ips@inews.Intel.COM>, vnoronha@mipos3.intel.com (Valerie Noronha) writes:
|> My girlfriend and I were talking a few days ago and she asked if I had a
|> preference as to whether or not I wanted my baby spanked after birth.  I
|> had just assumed that doctors are no longer performing this practice as
|> no one seems to comment on it.  Is this an outdated practice or do doctors
|> still do this?  If so, is it really necessary?
|>

As far as I know, the newborn has to cry to activate her/his lungs. If (s)he 
doesn't cry by her/himself the doctors will spank the newborn. But you don't
really think the newborn will suffer from it, do you?
 
|> Valerie Noronha
|> due 3-10-93

Richard
-- 
R.R. van de Stadt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ stadt@cs.utwente.nl
Usually I use vi instead of xedit^[:wq
From: hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: cute 2yr joke
Date: 15 Dec 1992 00:11:16 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.gps.caltech.edu
Summary: the almost 2 version

In article <199212142144.AA13395@tuna.wang.com> AMY.UHRBACH@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Amy Uhrbach") writes:

> My son (almost 3) is very into rhyming, and funny words that sound alike.
> So here's his joke:
>
>"What does Pooh make in his diaper?
> Pooh poop! (wild giggling)"

Paul was almost 2 when we took him to Disneyland & he walked into a store
& grabbed a small plastic Winnie-the-Pooh.  I bought one for him and
gave him his "Pooh Bear"--he spent the next few minutes looking at
the bear's underside (bottom?), gleefully announcing, "Pooh!  Pooh!" 

Sue
From: ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Christmas Gift Suggestions For All Age's
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:36:26 EST
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <1992Dec8.185600.5330@uc.msc.edu>, tbachman@hamline.edu. (Toni Bachmann 6412947) writes:
> Hello:
> 
> I think it would be interesting to find out what ideas people have for
> all age groups of kids for Christmas gifts.  Perhaps the subject line
> could be:
> 
> Gifts - Boy 9 years
> Gifts - Girl 6 years
> 
> I think a lot of people would appreciate ideas - especially as the holiday


I believe it was Susanne Gilliam (who IMO is a pretty good font of very
sensible child-rearing opinion, and no she isn't a relative :) who suggested
putting together "kits" on various themes: I recall an "office" kit of stuff
purchased from a stationary store with things like stamps, labels, pens, etc. 
I just put together a "kitchen" kit for my niece's birthday (4 YO); I went to a
houseware supply store and had a ball buying real, but tiny, items like a loaf
pan, spatula, baster...  I even recall that Susanne, or somebody, posted the
information about it.  Guess you can tell I thought it was a super idea.  I
like the underlying ideas of giving kids something REAL to play with (we
all know how much preschoolers love to be grown-up like mom and dad) and giving
them things to get their own imaginations working.  Vastly preferable to toys
that do all the action for them!

Ann Helmers

PS.  A tangential comment/question:  my niece's birthday party was at a local
children's museum and was fairly large (20 kids).  Her mom did not open any
presents at the party.  Instead, after the birthday cake she gave all the guests
goody bags, sent them home and carted all the gifts home to open later by
themselves.  The explanation was that, at this age, kids get too worked up
seeing one child getting such a gift bonanza.  Hmmm, I have to say here that
although I can see some logic to this, it was disappointing to me (don't think
the kids noticed).  Question:  is this in fact the newest trend (as my SIL
assured me)?  Oh, one reason I was let down was that I had looked forward to
seeing if my niece liked the kitchen kit :(.  Oh well, I put one together for
my son for Christmas, so by golly I'll get to see SOMEBODY open one :).
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ksouth@iguana.dsd.es.com (Kerri South)
Subject: Re: eating in labour
Reply-To: ksouth@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 00:35:23 GMT

I should be following up to the original post, but have lost it. As someone
who will undoubtedly need to eat in labor whether or not I feel like it and
whether or not I am partly nauseous, I'm wondering what would be best to eat.
In real (nonlaboring) life, I do best by eating enough complex carbohydrates
and protein. Of course, fatty foods keep me full for a while, but I'm guessing
that since digestion slows down during labor, I should stay away from fatty
foods. Is protein also hard to digest? Broth or soup would be pointless even
though comforting, because it has so few calories, and the whole point is to
keep my energy up. Simple sugars that play havoc with insulin levels always
make me feel worse than before (after a short high.)

Any suggestions for foods that digest quickly or easily and can keep my
energy level fairly stable? I'm guessing fruits, breads, pastas, but I really
have no clue about ease of digestion, except that NOTHING seems to want to
digest easily at 12 weeks :(  Have any of you made a point of regularly
ingesting significant calories during a typically long (first baby) labor?

-- 
Kerri South, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Design Systems Division, P.O. Box 8070, 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84108        (801) 582-5847 
INET: ksouth@dsd.es.com
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: When To Turn Car Seat?
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:28:50 GMT

In article <BzCwzo.G2J@unix.amherst.edu> njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal) writes:
>
>I probably should know this from my first son...but, when are you
>supposed to turn a backward facing infant seat forwards?  
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nuhad Jamal
>njamal@amherst

I called Fisher Price about this, back when our son was making the 
transition.  The reason I called was that, by the weight guidelines, he
was ready to be moved to forward facing, but he couldn't sit up by 
himself yet.  Fisher Price instructed me to continue using the rear
facing position, until he could sit up by himself (not pull himself 
into a sitting position, that is, just able to sit self-supporting once
in that position.  They felt that the associated neck and back muscle
strength and coordination was an important criteria).

I don't remember, anymore, what the weight guidelines were (but it 
seems to me that the instruction manual said that the rear-facing 
infant position was only for infants less than 20? pounds).  You should
be able to find similar information in your seat's manual.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: ivan@rec.msk.su (ivanov oleg petrovich)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: help Russian children to contact with their Belgium friends
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:21:18 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: RECOM Association
Reply-To: ivan@rec.msk.su

Hello!
   Some kids of workers from our firm were in Belgium this summer.
This visit was act of help for Russian children who lived in regions
suffered contamination after Chernobyl disaster or whose parents have
worked in Chernobyl after disaster. Children have stayed month in
Belgium  families,  have  good  time  there.  But  now  they  have
difficulties
to contact with  new friends in Belgium by post. (There are many
new troubles in Russia, but work of post office in country and abroad
is very old problem). If somebody can help to resend some children's
letters to their Belgium friends from email form to post mail form
that 'll be wonderful present for all children.
Answer me and I will email letters with addresses of Belgium families.
Thanks in advance,

-- 
Sincerely 
      Oleg Ivanov
RECOM Ltd
Moscow  |||  Email:   ivan@rec.msk.su             Fax: 007 (095) 196 1635


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm)
Subject: When To Turn Car Seat
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:10:06 GMT



I start to think that i talks about a different type of car seat for
kids. We have seats for following ages.
 
0-9 month, 9-36 month, and upp to 7 years.
 
The security board in Sweden recommend us to turn the seat when the
child is 36 month. If you talks about the 0-9 month type seat it can't
be turned around. The recommendation is based on accident
investigations and research work at Chalmers institute of technology
in cooperation with car manufacture's and insurance companies

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
/Christer
-- 
"Destiny makes relatives, selection makes friends."
From: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:10:36 GMT
Reply-To: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel Corp.

In article <1992Dec16.193651.8553@advtech.uswest.com>, ken@advtech.uswest.com (Kenny Chaffin) writes:
|> 
|> 	I'm sure there are a lot of people with the same _opinion_. My 
|> opinion happens to be different, and neither are necessarily right or wrong,
|> but my argument against it is that it is a medically unnecessary procedure.
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> It is only done for social/vanity/religious reasons. And for me that is not
|> a good enough reason to invoke such a procedure on babies.
|> 

Not always medically unecessary.  As I posted the other day, my Dad had to
be circumsized at the age of 56 due to medical problems that were caused from
not being circumsized.  Not everyone is going to have medical problems
associated with being uncircumzied.  And I totally agreed with you - it is
a matter of opinion.]

***************************************************
	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com
***************************************************