From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: politics
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:42:53 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Originator: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM

>I think we have (not just you and I, but most everyone in t.p.m.) a
>basic difference-of-understanding with regard to the meaning of
>"concession". In fact, it is more of a "double-standard". That is,
>Israeli concessions are/must-be physical/tangible, while Arab
>concessions are/must-be ideological/conceptual.

>Israel *returns the Sinai Penninsula* (physical concession), while
>Arabs  *recognize the existance of Israel* (conceptual)

No the second line should be:
Egypt   *signed a peace treaty and opened diplomatic relations with Israel.

I did not benefit whatsoever from this concession.

>Israel *stops building new settlements* (physical concession), while
>Arabs  *depart from the idea of liberating Palestine...* (`major'
>        ideological concession)
 
Again the second line should be:

Palestinians *depart from the idea of liberating Palestine. We don't
have anything physical left to offer.

>Exactly. When one country is attacked by its neighbor (who, 19 years earlier
>earlier, stole some of that country's land), and defeats that neighbor and


Who stole who? in 1948 we stole the land from you? come on!

>When Jordan declared war on Israel in 1948, and took over the West Bank
>area, it did none of these things. When Israel won it back in 1967, it
>was as if nothing had changed (except for the Jewish cemetaries and places
>of worship and places of historical value that Jordan destroyed).

>So, "Yes", Israel gave up this right *not for the loan guarantees*, but
>for peace.

>And again I ask, "What are the Arabs giving up? Where are *their* 
>concessions?"
 
What about the pr-1948 land? isn't that a physical concession?
Do you want WB and Gazza too? what is left? Jordan ofcourse.
 
>No. The "Hashemites" were just another semi-nomadic tribe, living in the
>Stone Age, when the British (for whatever perverse reason) decided to go
>the Turks one better in screwing the Jews, and took the land on *both* sides
>of the Jordan River and called in Trans-Jordan, and then gave the eastern
>portion to the "Hashemites" and the western portion to Israel, calling it
>"Palestine".

>Those "Palestinians" about whom we hear so much are "Jordanians" -- it's the
>Israelis who are the *real* "Palestinians". 

Well if you want to really go back in history, the British screwed up everything.
I know that they created Syria and Jordan the same way they created Kuwait early 
in the century. However, the Palestininas in Palestine that is Haifa, Java, and
so on they were there 2000 years ago and they were not called Joranians, they were
called Palestinians. The Jews were there 2000 years ago and before the Jews the 
Philstines were there. I can go back in history as much as you want.

>As for "refugee passports", well, it's a lot of hooey -- they are Jordanian
>citizens, but that old "Hashemite" won't give them either passports or
>recognize their citizenship, but he'll sure send them dinars... And as for
>spitting in your face, the "Hashemites" are scared silly that if they let
>those "Jordanians" living in Israel back into Jordan, that they would all
>become fundamentalist Moslems and would overthrow their precious "Hashemite"
>kingdom.

If you want to consider Haifa and Java and Tel-Aviv as part of Jordan, then that
is fine we are Jordanians. I know where my granfathers lived for the past 2000 years. 
We did not have mobile homes then. Do you think that I will buy this stuff?
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast