From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Closet Bigotry (was: Re:Buchanan's speech)
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:53:47 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <nate.504@psygate.psych.indiana.edu> nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes:
>ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>
>>> Is this [gay marriage] an idea you support?
>
>>Yes, Mr. Porter, this is an idea I support.  Other ideas I support:
>
>>-the rights of gay people to adopt children
>>-the rights of gay people to equal treatment under the law
>>-the right of equal access to housing, employment, and justice
>>-the right to walk down the street without being jeered, belittled,
>>spat upon, or beaten.
>
>    You're on really solid ground on those first 3 items...

I must jump in here.  There is no solid ground when it comes to homosexuals
adopting children.  It is  hard enough for single heterosexual to adopt, and
this is for reasons brought into light by the Woody Allen deal.  Only a few
states will allow it.  I believe only CA now, but soon to be NY as well. 
Don't bet on it going any further.

Homsexual marriage?  Same as above.  There won't be more than a few states
that will allow it.  But I would like to get to a more philosophical issue,
that of thinking homosexual behavior is morally wrong.

Everything depends upon one's metaphysical perspective.  If I hold there to
be (1) certain moral structures that come from an eternal mind or form, then there
will be certain types of behavoir that are morally right and wrong, although
not always as easily discernable as some would like.

I would not want to be simplistic and deny that moral behavoir exists apart
from the above metaphysical perspective, for one could be established based
only on (2) rational principles of conduct, such as Kant suggested.

But consider (1).  One believes that God exists as the most  perfect  being
and that a witness to part of God's revelation to the world can be found in
the Hebrew bible and N.T.  Also, it is thought that the many references to
the wrongness of homosexuality are not merely cultural impositions, but
truly desires and apsects of the divine reality.  Such a belief could be
grounded in a coherent, rational manner.

Hence, a belief that homosexual behavior is wrong grounded on the
metaphysical persptive (1) would leave one in a position of having certain
beliefs about homosexuality becuase of one's metaphysics, not because of
one's latent hatred or bigotted attitudes toward homosexuals.  There would
wisely be a difference made between the homosexual activity and the person
who engages in such activity.

Hence, if (1) were true, homosexuals would not be denied fundamental rights
(in terms of natural law) if they were not permitted to marry, for allowing
such marriages would be contrary to the fundamental nature of reality.

Now, admittedly, there is a difference between holding a philosophical
position and thinking that it is contitutional (U.S.) to integrate scuh a
postion into the American law.  This is very complicated, becuase
legislators impose their morality all the time on law that are made.  There
is a connection between natural law and contitutional and legislative law.
This is why manny believe they have the right to "impose" their
understanding of what is right and wrong on the country via legislation.  It
is done all the time, and there is no nuetral position that can be
advocated.  The question is whose morality will be the dominant one. 
Pluralism can only be maintained to a certain degree.  For homosexuality,
many think that our pluralistic committment can only be maintained to the
extent that homosexual behavior is allowed in the privacy of one's own home. 
One will find that this perspective is held by most American citizens, which
does not mean that it is right, just that on a political note, homosexual
rights as the activists advocate are destined for failure.

I have a few more points, but I am sure others will push me into a more
specific response.

======================================================
 Teddy Kalivoda  ------------> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu 
   University of GA Computing & Network Services       
     Inst.of Higher Education               
=====================================================                                                                          
	"The sleep of reason gives rise to monsters"
				        (Goya, Caprichos)