HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: znpt01@trc.amoco.com (Norman P. Tracy)
Subject: Re: Information capacity of a CD
Originator: znpt01@gpss43
Organization: Amoco Production Company, Tulsa Research
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:43:37 GMT


In article <1992Dec29.035621.15688@cis.ohio-state.edu>, rviswana@bagpipe.cis.ohio-state.edu (r viswanathan) writes:
>  Can someone tell me how many minutes of music can be stored on a
> CD.(Theoretically). I have seen some CDs which store nearly 80 minutes.
> And some  store just 35 mins or so. 

When mastered with the approved 1.0 micron pit to pit and track to track
spacing the limit is 74 minutes.  The recommended 74 min. limit is exceeded
by setting up the mastering lathe so its laser 'cuts' the pits at a 0.9 or
0.8 micron spacing.  They can also push the limits of the inner and outer
radius where the tracks start or end.
> 
>  Does reproduction suffer if more music is crammed into a CD (like an LP)?

No. Any CD from 0 to 74 min. meets the Sony/Philips standard.  Once the 74
min. 'limit' is exceeded sound quality will NOT suffer IF the individual
player can track the closer than spec. pits.  Record companies who get CDs
mastered with +74 min. are relying on the fact that the average CD player
tracks much better than envisioned in 198? when the standards were set.  And
that the mastering and pressing plants are amazingly good.  The trade off
is that a certain small % of players are going to mistrack the extra long
CD that will track a less than 74 min. disk.  This is why Sony/Philips
frown on 0.8 micron spacing.

The above discussion does not deal with the very subtle differences caused
by jitter effects introduced in the CD mastering/pressing processes related
to pit shape, plating, and other factors known only to mastering engineers.

> 
>  How do the new formats i.e MD and DCC compare with the CD as far as 
>  information storage goes?

	CD = ~500Mbytes
	MD = ~130Mbytes
	DCC = ????????? who cares? (Anybody else out there remember the hell
				    computer users went through when Compact
				    Cassettes were used for data/programs?)
> 
>  Please post all replies to the newsgroup.
> 
>  Thanks.
> 
>  --Ram.
> 
Norman Tracy
znpt01@trc.amoco.com
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Tuner/receiver with best AM reception
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:16:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland


What is the best tuner or receiver for AM reception?  I read the
non-digital models are best. Is this true, and can someone make a
specific recommendation?

I am mostly interested in listening to and recording AM radio talk shows.
I rarely listen to FM music stations.
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:28:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Velodyne ULD-12 hums - why, and can it be fixed?
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.audio

>The bad ground?  The crappy feed from my local cable company, feeding into
>my VCR, feeding into my preamp, feeding into my brand-new sub.
>
>The solution?  Unplug the cable when listening to music/tapes/Laserdiscs.
>Or build an isolation transformer.
>
>  - Cal
----------
The easy trick is to borrow an IDOS ($150) from your hifi shop and see
if the hum goes away.  Also easy to do it get a power strip with emi and
surge protection for $15 and isolate a pair of outlets with a teflon 
washer.  Make sure you don't fool around with the insides unless you
use a proper ground!

Kirk out
=> "We are what we pretend to be."  -  Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kirk Lindstrom - OCD Product R & D | Hewlett-Packard Co.  M/S: 91UA |
|   Engineer/Scientist, Hardware     |                                |
|------------------------------------| Optical Communication Division |
|     kirk_lindstrom@sj.hp.com       |                                |
|    Kirk Lindstrom / HP0100/UX      | 370 W. Trimble Rd.             |
| ph 408 435 6404 | fax 408 435 6286 | San Jose, CA  95131-1096       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: questions on new digital formats
Date: 2 Jan 1993 02:21:03 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ken Zuroski) writes:
: Speaking of the new digital formats, I've yet to see either DCC or MD
: pre-recorded media for sale in music shops. My questions: how are they
: gonna package these things? I assume the DCC can fit into the old analog
: cassette containers, but what about the MD diskettes? With all the fuss
: from the record stores about CD packaging, I'm interested in what the
: record companies have planned for the new formats.

I saw MD prerecorded disks in Tower Records in LA a few days ago.
It was rather strange--things that looked like 3.5 inch floppy disks
stuck inside cases that were VERY similar to cassettes'.  Not at all like
CD packaging.

No surprise there! 

Prices were I think all 13.99 or 14.99.

I wonder if it's a marketing mistake, though.  I suspect people will
pay more for something that looks like a CD then for something that
looks like a tape.

Or maybe Sony simply wants to keep their 'brand identities' somewhat
separate, though the "Mini Disc" label looks very similar to the CD
logo.

From a consumer point of view, the MD players are alot "neater" than
DCC players.  No rewinding, bump-resistant, and recording as a file-system.

Clear advantages over DCC.  Does b/w compatibility matter that much?

: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Ken Zuroski
: Department of English
: Carnegie Mellon University
: Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA
: kz08@cmu.edu
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: lauusitalo@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: Subwoofer amplification
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:15:48 GMT

In article <42728@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, mtrostle@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Mark Trostler) writes:
> I have a 12V/2.5amp power supply that I'm going to use to run a 140
> watt amp (running in mono mode).  I want said amp to power a 12"
> subwoofer, but I have to choose either 'left' or 'right' in mono
> mode to send to the subwoofer - does the subwoofer get only one
> channel?  Also, since the amp is only powering the subwoofer, do I
> need any sort of crossover?  If so, does it go before or after the
> amp?  Finally, what should the volume/dimensions of the subwoofer
> enclosure be?  I know there's a volume equation somewhere, but have
> no idea what it is...
> 					Thanx a zillion...
> 						Mark

You do need an LP filter. You should use active filter before amp. This
filter sums both channels. For 12" element you need about 100 litre
box. 

And as said before that supply needs reconsideration. For full swing
you need about +-24V supply with enough current capacity.

Lauri

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauri Uusitalo                 I          "Life is hard,          
lauri.uusitalo@ntc.nokia.com   I                then you die..."  
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott)
Subject: Re: Need comment on the Mirage speakers
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:50:00 GMT

ventura!chris@UCSD.EDU (Chris Ma) writes:


>I went to a local professional stereo store, and looked for 
>a stereo system in the $2000 range.  The owner of the store 
>showed me this system listed below (this system is a little 
>bit over my budget) --

>     Tuner/Pre-Amp.	(Adcom GTP 500II)

	You could save a bit of money here by going to the GTP-400.
You'll lose the remote, however. (And multi-room capability.)

>     Power Amp.	(Adcom GFA 535)

	This is a nice little amp. Parasound makes a 50wpc amp that
is comparable in price and quality, the HCA-500. Many people think
that Parasound equipment offers a superior value to Adcom.

>     CD Player		(Adcom GCD 575)

	You could probably get by with a less expensive player
from somebody like Denon if you needed to save money.

>     Speakers		(Mirage 460)

	I have never heard the mirages, so I can't give you any input.
I feel that Polk Audio and Boston Acoustics offer superior lines of
inexpensive speakers, however.

>I have read some articles (from Stereo Review) about Adcom's 
>products, but not Mirage speakers.  Does anybody have experience
>with Mirage speakers?  Do you think this stereo system is a good 
>combination?  If not, what you would suggest?

	Getting comments from others is fine, but don't hesitate to
trust your own ears. After all, you are the one who is going to be
listening to the system.

						-Cal
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Lott          "Oh, I see-- I thought 'no' meant 'spoon'!" --Dan
Email me, baby!   cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu   cjl1@midway.uchicago.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD SOund QUality
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:16:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24463
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Dec21.213820.2737@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> ledzep@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (carl.w.muhlhausen) writes:
>jj,
>
>I (and I think other rec.audio crazies) would be interested in what
>audible improvements we'd get out of more dynamic range and a
>higher sampling rate. I was under the impression that 16 bits
>gives more dynamic range than we need and a higher sampling rate
>would benefit dogs and bats but few humans.

Well, I'm not sure I'd say that one would get ANY benefit out
of more that 16 bits in a PROPERLY RECORDED CD.  Now, having
said that, my experience is that a lot of the CD's I own (I
do Audio signal processing for a living) are simply
not recorded decently.  <This from looking at spectra, levels
and such taken DIGITALLY from the CD>  So, I think that
18 bits might help the poor recording engineer.

As to higher sampling rates, that's also quite in dispute,
but some evidence suggests that at least some people can detect
higher frequencies than 30khz. (Note that smallkids can hear out
past 25kHz, that's no news.)  Note, I didn't say "hear"
I said "detect", as in having an effect on perception.

Some (albiet very high level) effects have been documented
in sonar and other applications.  Audio signals do not reach
these levels, however one COULD (I'm not) suspect that 
some detection capability exists at lower levels, although
not through the usual cochlear mechanisms.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: vanz@tragula.equinox.gen.nz (Martin Nieuwelaar)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re:  CD Sound Quality
Date: 25 Dec 92 13:54:16 +1200
Organization: Not an organisation

In article <7490273@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes:
>> Say you sample at 44 KHz.  The maximum theoretical limit of frequency
>> you can capture is half of this, 22 KHz.  However, at this rate there
>> are only two samples per cycle.  With two samples per cycle, a sine
[Stuff deleted]
>God, not this again.  Here, let me introduce you to my good friend, 
>Mr. Fourier, and his friends, Mr. Shannon and Mr. Nyquist.....
> 
>Once more, with feeling: THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 22 kHz SINE WAVE
>AND A 22 kHz SQUARE WAVE UNTIL YOU CONSIDER COMPONENTS AT 66 kHz AND ABOVE.
>If you think you can hear that high, fine.  44.1 kHz sampling can reproduce
>ALL components up to 22 kHz EXACTLY.

Ok, I see where I went wrong.  I knew a square wave was the sum of
the odd harmonics.  I also knew that low pass filters were
used in CD players.  For some reason I hadn't made the connection.
It's now rather obvious to me that a 22 KHz square wave put
through a suitable low pass filter, will be the same as a 22 KHz
sine wave.  Thanks to jj@alice, and Robert Silvers for pointing
me in the right direction.

Thanks also to Adre Yew for the text on the sampling theorem.
Everything seems straight-forward up to the part at the end
to do with the inverse transforms.  If I have this right, what
you do is point sample the signal, do a Fourier transform,
remove all components above half your sampling rate, and do
an inverse Fourier transform.
This is then convolved with the inverse transform of the box filter. ???
Anyway, I've got a book on fast Fourier transforms, which includes
a program for doing FFTs and IFFTs.  A look at this might help
make things clearer.

In the message David Chase wrote regarding oversampling, in which
he explains a rather simpler form of interpolation, his idea
about the brick wall filter seems obvious to me too.  Simply
FT, apply the box filter, and IFT.  Providing you have the
equipment, this seems to me a better way than using (say) an
analog filter that will not have as much slope, and may introduce
all sorts of phase distortions.  (Please tell me if I'm wrong).

From what I've read here, my misunderstanding is common, and
I think adding an explanation to the FAQ list would be a great idea.

>There.  I feel much better now.  I know it won't really do much good, but
>I feel better anyway.

But it did.  Thanks.

--
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Wanted: Legacy Phone Number
Date: 30 Dec 92 07:10:08 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

I was hoping to order the Legacy 1 speakers this week, but I seem to
have lost my copy of the catalog. Can someone send me the phone number
and/or address? Thanks in advance.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: hooking portable CD to tape-less car radio
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:24:22 GMT

In article <Dec.9.21.00.45.1992.13883@athos.rutgers.edu> borgida@athos.rutgers.edu (Alex Borgida) writes:
>I have a Toyota without a tape deck, but with a radio and speakers that I am
>quite happy with. I also have a portable CD player that I use in the garden,
>at work, etc. I was told by a local "car stereo" place that it is *not*
>possible to hook up wires to the car radio so that I can listen to my
>portable CD player in the car, when I go on long trips. 

Well, it is possible, but only with some effort and electronics knowledge.
I wanted a similar thing - my car just had the factory fitted radio, and I
wanted to be able to play my walkman or CD player through it.

I pulled the radio out, tracked down the line stage of the radio, and put in
a stereo switch at that point.  I then built a line-interface circuit with
a couple of op-amps to make a high impedance line input, built a 3 V power
supply inside the radio, and then fed two cables (stereo line input and the 3V
DC supply) out the back of the radio through its 5 pin DIN connector and into
the glovebox, where I can then plug in my walkman or CD player.

(You can do without the line interface if you use the headphone output of your
CD player rather than the line output - the headphone output can drive large
currents into capacitive loads)

I installed the stereo switch on the front panel of the radio, so I can
switch between the radio and the external source, and all the balance, fader
and tone controls still work on the input line signal.

Why did I do all of this rather than just get a new radio/cassette unit?

	- Doing this was more fun
	- I get more use out of my walkman/CD player
	- I can easily take my walkman/CD player out of the car when I park
		(or leave them hidden in the glovebox)
	- Thiefs only ever see a factory fitted radio in my car and so leave
		it alone.
	- My car is so tinny (lots of interior noise when I drive) it wouldn't
		be worth it to put in a better sound system anyway

The end result is perfect.  I can listen to tapes/CDs, the quality is *much*
better than the radio, and it only cost be about $10 in parts and a weekend of
my time.  Such a solution is not everyone's cup of tea, though.

Cheers,
-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Watts/channel question (Was: Sony ES vs. Sony A/V receivers)
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:45:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.224409.15498@scott.skidmore.edu> mcobb@scott.skidmore.edu (mary cobb) writes:
>You don't like Bose?  Why the grude, I have always thought that Bose made
>really high-quality stuff...?

Well, *I* don't like Bose.  You are, of course, free to like his speakers.
In the end it is the individual listener that must decide for him/herself.

However, I can tell you that in the professional and high-end worlds, Bose
is considered by many to be, shall we say less-than-desirable.  In the
consumer market, it is my opinion that one can get a lot better values for
the same amount of money.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD Sound Quality
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:23:10 GMT

in article <1h17e4INNrkv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) says:
> I say lets leave it at ONE disc format for simplicity, and work on a 32 bit
> 96 kHz sampling system.

This sort of thing pops up regularly here, and I have to ask, on what *basis*
have you made the assertion that 96 kHz sampling with 32 bit resolution is
required for audio reproduction?  Are these numbers you've just picked out of
the air (as many others seem to have previously)?

All I see from people who promote this sort of thing is nothing more than a
simplistic "more is better" approach.  I'm afraid science and technology is
rarely advanced by speculative guesswork.

So, if you have no basis for deciding on the parameters you've chosen, what
happens if you spend $100k developing a system to record and playback audio
signals to these parameters, and the result is not what you expected?  (eg
it doesn't sound any better than the current CD format).  Do you go back
and up things to 48 bits and 192 kHz sampling?  Do you randomly tweak?  Do
you give up?

Things don't work that way - not if you want your development to be cost
effective.  You have to have a pretty solid rationale for developing a new
product, plently of scientific, psychoacoustic and theoretical substantiation
for the design path chosen.

If you don't, you waste many thousands of dollars, because you won't get it
right the first time.  You need to be sure you *are* going to make it right
the first time before you actually do *make* it.

You can't guess, or pluck "96 kHz" out of the air because it sounds like it
might be enough.  How do you *know* whether it is or isn't?  If 44.1 kHz
*isn't* enough, how much higher do you *need* to go??

Now, none of this is meant to imply that the current CD format is perfect.
It may be sufficient to many ears, it may not be to some.  However, there is
a *lot* of theoretical foundation for the CD parameters chosen, and I think
the onus is on you to *prove* they are inadequate.

Dissatisfaction with the sound of CDs is not sufficient proof, either.  It's
an opinion.

BJ (who's sick of psuedo-science)
-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Compression question
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:28:05 GMT

in article <1992Dec20.204904.13238@en.ecn.purdue.edu>, syd@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Dennis P Hilgenberg) says:
> [1] J. D. Johnston.  "Transform Coding of Audio Signals Using
>     Perceptual Noise Criteria."  IEEE Journal on Selected Areas
>     in Communications, Vol. 6, No. 2, February 1988.
> etc...

What??  References in a rec.audio article?  From *real* journals??  And SIX
references?  Ohmigawd... it must be time to retire.  If this keeps up, some
facts may accidentally leak in to wreck.audio.  We can't have that...

:-) for the seriously humour impaired

-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: dmlkm@cbnewse.cb.att.com (david.e.montalbano)
Subject: CD player vs. CD/LD player
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 14:51:19 GMT
Followup-To: poster

Recently  I sold my CD player.   In a few months I will be in the
market for a new CD player.   I was also thinking about maybe getting
a CD/LD player.  Namely the Pioneer CLD-M401 5 disc CD/LD player.
Someone I work with said that the CD quality from a LD player isn't 
as good as the sound quality from a "just a CD player".
Is this true?

The CLD-D501 has twin 1 bit D/A converters but only plays one CD, whereas
the CLD-M401 says it has 1 bit Direct Linear Conversion with high-speed and
high-density pulseflow D/A converter.  Is there a big difference here?

Thanks in advance, 
DM
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: "andy moss" <andy.moss@canrem.com>
Subject: various questions
Reply-To: "andy moss" <andy.moss@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 30 Dec 92 02:03:03 EST

KO>4a) Does anybody know of any tweaks to improve the sound on
KO>    the Rotel 955AX CD player, that are do-it-yourself-able?


---
  Magical Mail  There is no substitute for brute force and ignorance!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rav@att.com (Reinaldo Valenzuela)
Subject:  What is a good (low) price for Vandersteen's 2Ce ?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 03:27:57 GMT


I am about to buy a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce speakers.
The dealer quoted me $1295 over the phone but
says he'll "make me a price"...
How low can I expect him to be willing to go ?

Thanks.
Reinaldo
Newsgroups: rec.audio