HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.comics.vertigo
From: dubach1@husc10.harvard.edu (joev dubach)
Date: 28 Jan 93 09:22:42
 <1993Jan26.164648.17842@psych.toronto.edu><1993Jan26.202555.26060@wam.umd.edu> <C1JE87.Ayq@trystro.uucp>
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: rune@trystro.uucp's message of Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:50:28 GMT

In article <C1JE87.Ayq@trystro.uucp> rune@trystro.uucp (Peter Maranci) writes:

	   "Vertigo" seems too limiting. And couldn't there be a legal problem?
   Isn't the Vertigo name trademarked, or something (yes, I do know that it's
   a common English word)?

								   -->Pete

Oo, good point.  Guess we'll have to rmgroup comp.sys.mac.* too.
Thanks for pointing this out; I'm sure, if we had gone ahead and
created rec.arts.comics.vertigo, DC's lawyers would have jumped at the
chance to persecute us.  Heaven forbid that one should talk about
something trademarked on rec.arts.comics.*.

Joev (rolling his eyes) 
--
_____________________________________________________
DDDDDDDDD   JJJJJJ      | Joev Dubach
     D      J     J     | dubach1@husc.harvard.edu
     D      J     J     | 249 North Mail Center
D    D      J     J     | Harvard University
DDDDD    *  JJJJJJ  *   | Cambridge, MA 02138
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cornwall@bach.udel.edu (Ray J Cornwall)
Subject: Re: IMAGE et al.
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:11:31 GMT

In article <1k3okcINN4h1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ainsi@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Robert Bristol) writes:
>
>	Just a word in defense of the Image crew.  I think they deserve 
>quite a bit of respect for having the balls to go out and trying something
>this nutty on their own (OK, so Malibu is baby-sitting them ... but still)
First of all, Malibu isn't going to baby-sitting after March, as has
been well-noted on this list. Second, doesn't anyone really think what
Lee, Leifeld, and McFarlane are doing is really that ballsy? They're
extremely popular artists who want ALL the money. People will buy
whatever they're selling. So why not cut out the middleman (Marvel)
and take all the money? (Answer- oh yeah, gotta put the books out on
time...:)
>	And in closing .. I think Spawn and WildCATS are the only good things
>	to come out of this IMAGE explosion.  Spawn has a palatable story,
>	good art, and it IS on time.  WildCATS is, face it, a rollickin' good
>	time.  Lee knows how to string you along by getting these guys into 
>	a really bad situation and then leaving you hanging until next month.
>	And, he usually does it in an interesting way, not marvel chees.
>	(Did anyone see WildCATS3?  He plawed 'em all under and opened a gate
>	to a new world.  I want to see him get out of this AND keep my respect)
>
>		-Later
>	
>	PS:  I thought the only redeeming feature of PITT were the expletives.
>                (and the colors, of course)

Well, I'll add my .02...
Spawn is just great. The plot isn't bad, though McFarlane dialogue is
still really clunky. He should hire a writer just for the words. his
ideas are neat, and the art is fantastic. I went back last night and
scanned the art in Hulk's Ground Zero. No comparison- the new stuff is
MUCH better. With the beautiful lettering and coloring, this book is
great. And remember- I HATE McFarlane's Spidey (give me Sal Buscema!)
Lee's art is nice, but who's writing this stuff? It's not bad, but
there's WAY too many characters, and I have to re-read this stuff
three times just to get the plot. You shouldn't have to do this for
stuff this frilly...
And I hated the letterer and the expletives in Pitt, but the art was
kinda nice. Just shows how valuable Farmer is as an inker.
Ray Cornwall
U of D
From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Anybody likes Youngblood?
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:05:10 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan20.234714.3759@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>Roy Daniel (royd@ERE.UMontreal.CA) wrote:
>
>: Gee, I wonder...
>
>Don't do that!
>
>: Does ANYBODY on the net likes Youngblood? Even a little?
>
>Yes, I like it! I'm about the only one with enough GUTS to 
>admit that. I've gotten every issue so far. Both of them!
>
>I like Rob's art. He has a unique and totally different style.
>He's not a draftsman like John Buscema, but he generates
>some interesting effects. He's the master of the eye-catching
>pin-up pose. I like something *different* occasionally.
>
	George Perez or even Jim Lee are MUCH better.

>I do not care particularly for the story line, but if I want
>story I can read a novel. I don't care for his pathetic fill-in
>artists.
>
	If I want pin-ups, I can buy playboy.  If I want nice pictures,
I'll get a portfolio.  If I want a STORY,  TO READ, AND NICE PICTURES,
I'll get a comic that satisfies both criteria.  Pretty rough these days,
especially when mindless boobs like button-brain claim to be writers.
He gives those with a modicum of talent a bad name.  Only Tom DeFalco or
Louise Simonson could give him a real run for his money.  I haven't
read Pitt yet, so I don't know where Dale Keown's writing ranks on the
Stink-O-Meter.

>Scott


					   Time-Waster Lad
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: bards_n@opium.cs.odu.edu (Nathan Bardsley)
Subject: Gaiman/Vertigo Tour
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Va
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:34:40 GMT

This was posted last night on GEnie by Ellie Lang, who handles many of
Neil's signings, and is definately the person who would know.

-=-=-=-

For those who/ve asked, and even for those who haven't, Neil's scheduled
Vertigo signings follow:

Sunday, February 21, BOSTON area
            1:00 - 4:00 p.m. The Million Year Picnic, 57
            John F. Kennedy Drive, Cambridge, MA  02138 (617) 492-6763

Tuesday, February 23, WASHINGTON, D.C. area
            4:00 - 7:00 p.m. Infinity Comics,
            7713 Sudley Road, Manassas, VA  22110 (703) 330-1575

Thursday, February 25, SEATTLE area
            4:00 - 7:00 p.m. Lady Jayne's Comics & Books
            5969 6th Avenue, Tacoma, WA  98406 (206) 564-6168

Friday, February 26, SEATTLE area
            4:00 - 7:00 p.m. Zanadu Comics
            1923 Third Avenue, Seattle, WA  98101 (206) 443-1316

That's all for the Vertigo tour.  The Game Of You tour will be in early May,
details to follow in March.
-- 
Nathan Bardsley -- bards_n@cs.odu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: green lanterns
Reply-To: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:14:03 GMT

In article <1jnqkhINN9kj@cornwall.cs.purdue.edu> berninge@cs.purdue.edu (Jim Berninger) writes:
> That was me, and it was hardly a hypothesis.  It was stated in one
> of the (relatively) recent GL books -- I'm guessing one of the
> Emerald Dawn series.  And, that's why I made the statement "or some

I'd like a reference on this if possible, since I don't recall such. And
if it was that the time is set to be the GL's home world, I'd expect the
following from Hal Jordan at some point:

To: Postmaster, Oa
From: Hal Jordan, Sector 2814 (or whatever)
Please change my address from Earth (rotation period 24 hours) to Venus
(rotation period 5832 hours or so) and reset my charging time accordingly.

"July 2 -- Financially troubled Braniff Airlines suddenly ceases operations,
but officials assure nervous passengers that most flights ``should be
able to glide to safety.''" --Dave Barry's 1992 Year in Review
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Hellblazer's Still Not That Great
From: <DCC117@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:20:04 EST
Organization: Penn State University

   Anybody think Constantine partied a
  little TOO hearty in #63?  I mean, all
  of a sudden everybody's toking.  What an
  influence this could have on impressionable
  young minds.
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Malibu- Protectors
Keywords: new series from malibu
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:13:50 GMT

wrighd2@aix.rpi.edu (Douglas Albert Wright) writes:
>Has anybody seen the new series from Malibu, called the Protectors.
>I bought issues 3 and 4 and sent for back issues of 1 and 2.
>I thought it was excellent.  It reminded me of the Avengers and the JLA
>when both of these teams were in their prime (IMO).  I liked
>especially, the characters, and the story. I found the price
>a bit high though (2.50  or 1.95 newstand).  Any comments?

I bought the first four issues after a couple friends recommended them.  I
found them extremely enjoyable.  I think it's because I didn't feel like I
was missing out on something because the characters were new to me.
There's a sense of history to the group without the usual continuity
questions to interfere with it.

Does anyone know if the Protectors have been around before in any form?  I
can't find any info, but it almost seems like it. . . .

--

 _______________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/"Have you ever run into anyone who was combobulated, sheveled,          \/
    gruntled, plussed, ruly, gainly, maculate, pecunious, or peccable?"
                                       -- Richard Lederer, _Crazy English_

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lintz@balin.cis.udel.edu (Brian Lintz)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.comics.vertigo
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:52:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.174616.19872@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
><C1ABAJ.MGr@andy.bgsu.edu> (Greg Pallenik):
>>...this newsgroup is "cluttered" with Sandman postings.  I'm finding it harder
>>and harder to select post that interest me.  Would it be possible to get a
>>rec.arts.sandman post?  
>
>Something like this ought to be a Frequently Asked Question.
>The answer is 'no'.
>
>Briefly, there is a reluctance to create a newsgroup with a short life
>expectancy.  (The Sandman run is expected to end in a year or two, though
>there may be followups.)  Too, while it is realized that some readers
>do not have access to 'kill' files, most do, and can screen out 98% of
>the Sandman traffic simply by killing any message with that word in
>the subject line.  In other words, such a group would benefit relatively
>few people, for a relatively short time.
>
>Sandman isn't the first title that has dominated this newsgroup for
>a while.  When earlier titles had their day in the sun there were the
>same suggestions to split them off into their own newsgroups.
>
>-----

However, the suggestion a while back about creating rec.arts.comics.vertigo
I think was a good one. All the _Sandman_, _Hellblazer_, _Swamp Thing_, etc.
traffic can get off rec.arts.comics and cut it down some. I agree that
basing a group on one comic is kind of ridiculous, but basing it in a whole
line, sort of makes sense.

Brian Lintz
lintz@udel.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ROWJOSP@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: netter who discuss themselves
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 04:57:49 EST

In article <lsmith.727667584@deci>
lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
 
>So far we have:
>
>Mister E(lmo) and Lady Johanna Constantine
>
>Now all we need are suitable replacements for Dr Occult and The Phantom
>Stranger and the Net.Trench Coat Brigade will be ready to ride!
 
"Indeed. But it has not long been my wont so freely to communicate in
this medium. As yet, I am unfamiliar with these fields ... so, for
the present, I must remain ... a stranger."
 
(Seriously, folks; earlier in the evening I was garbed in a black
trenchcoat and a black fedora ... I even had a turtleneck under my
shirt, but it wasn't white.)
 
Yours, Si Rowe
_____________________________________________________________________
"I think twinkle is a very nice word. So's viridian. I knew a
lady once who had an imaginary fish."      -Delirium
 
"I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it.
I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't
any Narnia."                               -Puddleglum the Marsh-wiggle
                                           _The Silver Chair_ by C.S. Lewis
email to: rowjosp@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: uk09241@nx09.mik.uky.edu (clark heinrichs)
Subject: comic gifs requested
Keywords: gifs
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:05:33 GMT

Cound someone start a new group dedicated to comic gifs,jpg,or tiffs
mainly covers or posters..
there doesnt seem to be that many on alt.binaries.misc


thanks
clark heinrichs
From: zombie@EBay.Sun.COM (zombie)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Annotated Future Imperfect (Long)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:10:24 GMT
Organization: None of your business
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zombie@EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: redeye.ebay.sun.com

>- Wonder Woman's Tiera (3rd shelf above where Rick is sitting)

Huh?  This is OK with DC?  Maybe it belongs to someone else.

zombie

---
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>                    zombie@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM                    <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Organization: The Greek Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:46:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.170104.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Elmo the Stunt Elk) writes:

>	Nope.  Destruction starts cooking on the appropriate day, but
>Del and Dream show up late enough that the food is starting to cool.  That
>suggests a delay of a few hours or less, rather than a delay of days.

Well some of the food appears to be warm. (Little heat lines coming off of 
them.) So they can't be too late unless Destruction was planning on having
drinks and appetizers before dinner. 

Aren't the dolmades (stuffed grape leaves, right?) the warm green things 
near the closest candle? 

My guess is that Destruction just mis-calculated. He would have to know 
they were coming to start the dinner. But his early warning system would
probably only tell him that Dream was now taking the search seriously. He
must have just assumed that it would take about a day to find him.

(part 33)-------------------
 Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "I'm sorry, but our survey of the target audience
   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  shows that the kids just aren't interested in
 Unsalted X-Peanuts: The   |  peanuts. Unless you can come up with some mutant
   Death of Dark Peanix    |  powers, we're going to have to cancel the title."
From: pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Urges of a 501 murderous rage...
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:19:54 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>>I was at the NYC convention this past Saturday (what a miserably produced
>>show, BTW), and LO AND BEHOLD, look who came to grace us with his presence...
>
>Did you come by and say 'Hi' to me?  I was running the tables right across
>from the Marvel booth.

I might have... can't recall.  The entire day my head was clouded by confusion
and exhaustion.

About the quality of the show, I just could NOT believe how crammed the
creator/publisher area was.  If they had a bigger area (HOW ABOUT PUTTING
PARTS OF THAT AREA IN OTHER ROOMS???), there wouldn't have been such problems.
The second I walked in the door, I wanted to go home.

-- 

+-| Paul Lewis | People's Temple, Jonestown: WLVR 91.3fm    Mon. 11pm-1am |-+
|  'I'd love to turn you on.'                  -The Beatles   |             |
|  'You should be with us, feeling like we do  -Perry Farrell |     1       |
|   like you love to, but never will again.'                  |    2 3      |
|  'The struggle between God and man breaks    -Kazantzakis   |             |
|   out in everyone.'                                         | Renaissance |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ross@BofA.com (Ross Lefstin)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.comics.vertigo
Organization: Bank of America, Capital Products, RMTG #5906
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:09:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.215253.13383@udel.edu> lintz@balin.cis.udel.edu (Brian Lintz) writes:
[Dialogue about r.a.c.m "cluttered" with Sandman postings & inappropriateness of
single-comic newsgroup]
>
>However, the suggestion a while back about creating rec.arts.comics.vertigo
>I think was a good one. All the _Sandman_, _Hellblazer_, _Swamp Thing_, etc.
>traffic can get off rec.arts.comics and cut it down some. I agree that
>basing a group on one comic is kind of ridiculous, but basing it in a whole
>line, sort of makes sense.
>
>Brian Lintz
>lintz@udel.edu

I couldn't agree more, and I read all the Sandman, Hellblazer et al. postings.
I think that creating r.a.c.vertigo would answer the complaints of netters who
are fed up with the volume of Sandman posts as well as benefitting those of
us who follow the vertigo threads.  It seems that most of the people interested
in Sandman are also interested in Hellblazer, Death, etc.
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:51:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor

In article <1993Jan28.060816.9063@midway.uchicago.edu> lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>When did Matthew show up, issue-wise?

A raven appears in issue #7 with Eve, but no name is given to it. The
first time Matthew shows up in bird form, is issue #11. At the time,
he is still having trouble getting used to the job. 

>I wouldn't imagine the average Greek then or now had heard of the
>Greek Morpheus, he's pretty obscure, IMO.  But that impression could
>be totally due to accidence of preservation, I suppose.

They also might wonder why he doesn't have wings on his head. B{)

There are several Greek gods who dealt with sleep. If I recall correctly,
Morpheus wasn't the only one that dealt with dreams. He was just one
of the more pleasant sleep/dream gods.

Isn't Morpheus one of Nyx's off-spring? 

(late night .sig)------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "Yes, these boots are very heavy. No, I don't
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  want to trade hats with you. Yes, my cap is 
    My tribe know me as     |  a little faded. Hmmm, that reminds me..."
 'Dances with Dust Bunnies' |                   _Mr Peanut meets Red Cap_
From: apn207s@momth1.maths.monash.edu.au (Mr A Dempster)
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Organization: Monash University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:22:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.221249.2357@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan25.062949.17688@midway.uchicago.edu> lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|> >In article <1jvgmb$sgi@agate.berkeley.edu> goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
|> >>In article <1993Jan24.052940.29838@midway.uchicago.edu> lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|> >>)And, what do we make of calling attention to the fact that Morpheus is
|> >>)not Apollo?  'Course I'm probably reading too much into that, could be
|> >>)a throwaway I suppose.
|> >>)Glenn
|> >>
|> >>	Well, recall that in the original myths Orpheus was the child
|> >>of Apollo and Calliope. It's therefore natural, when Dream refers to
|> >>Orpheus as his son, for Kris to think that that's who he is.
|> >
|> >Yup, that's why I wondered why he called attention to the apparent
|> >contradiction.  But like I said, it may not mean anything.
|> 
|> It's not a contradiction. The myths are ambiguous about Orpheus's
|> parentage; some say his father was Apollo, some say it was a mortal.
|> Given that ambiguity, Gaiman has said that it seemed fair to make
|> Dream his father. After all, clearly some of the myth-tellers got it
|> wrong; why not all of them?

Paraphrasing from 'August'...

Dream:Poets and dreamers are my people, so it
is not unusual for us to be confused. I am not some little sun-god with a
lyre. I am myself.
(In response to Augustus' question 'Are you Apollo?', prompted by the name
of dream's current raven)

So. Apollo and Dream are different people, but with similar characteristics.
This causes confusion. Dream's raven is thought by the general populace to
belong to *Apollo*, and Orpheus is thought to be *Apollo's* son. In Gaiman's 
mythology, the Greek gods are a construct of the 'collective unconsciousness'
(or something) of a particular population, and are known to the general public.
The Endless are less well known, as shown way back in the Nada storyline (I 
think the King of Birds mentioned that there were 'shadowy entities above the
gods' or something). The vast bulk of people don't know anything about the
Endless, so if they encounter one of them they would automatically assume they
were their cultural equivalent (In this case Dream is confused with Apollo, 
because no one knows of Dream).
 But then why don't they assume he's Morpheus?
Hmmm....


-- 

In order to remember your dreams, you must think of them as if they were 
little kittens. When you wake up in the morning, before you get out of bed,
Sit up and say, 
"Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty.
Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty.
Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty.
Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty.
Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty kitty."
                                                -King Missile
From: markb@cimage.com (Mark Bernstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Dave Sim & Martin Wagner on Independents
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:43:19 GMT
Organization: Cimage Corp, Ann Arbor, MI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Even if you're not a Cerebus fan, if you have an interest in the independent
(or alternative, if you prefer) comics market, Cerebus #166 is worth a look.
It contains the complete text of the speech Dave gave to the Diamond retailers
convention last June.  There's also, in the letter column, a long missive 
from Martin Wagner, creator/writer/artist of Hepcats, about what it's like
to be a struggling self-publisher.  Whether you agree with everything they
have to say or not (I mostly do, with a few reservations), it makes for
fascinating reading.


-- 
Mark Bernstein
markb@cimage.com
From: axjb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Anthony Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: re: SANDMAN - old/new questions
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:40:36 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

eusl01@castle.ed.ac.uk (Lilian Edwards) writes:

> (2) Surely some point is being made by clearly starring (sic) Morpheus
> rather than Apollo as the father of Orpheus. This is a strange transposition
> - Dream seems almost the opposite of the God of the Sun. Did Dream himself
> figure other tham metaphorically in Greek myth? I can't remember any references
> to him.

I understood that the two were frequently confused by followers of the Greek/Roman
mythology because of their shared interest in the literary arts. Dream is, after
all, the "Prince of Stories". See the "Augustus" issue (#30, I think) where Dream
appears to the Emperor, and upon being taken for Apollo, comments something along
the lines of "No... but poets and dreamers are both our people, and it is not
uncommon for us to be confused".

	Anthony.