From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Solutions to the problem? (was Re: Sgt
Date: 2 Jan 1993 04:18:26 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu () writes:
>In article <1hu053INN8rg@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>> In article 1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu () writes:

>>>	I found the following a couple of weeks ago in the Documents
>>>	on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945 (you are probably aware
>>>	of them). 
 
>>>	The first, from Aug, 1940 contains a draft declaration by
>>>	the Arab Committee (headed by the Mufti), which states
>>>	that "Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab 
>>>	countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements in
>>>	Palestine and the other Arab countries [!!! - NT] in a 
>>>	manner that conforms to the national and ethnic interests
>>>	of the Arabs, and to the solution of the Jewish question
>>>	in the countries of GErmany and Italy" (Series D, Vol. 10,
>>>	Doc.403).

>>>	The second, from Sept, 1940 describes a later version of 
>>>	the proposal. Among other things it calls for recognition 
>>>	of the Axis Powers in the "right of the Arab countries to 
>>>	solve the Jewish question in the national and racial 
>>>	interest on the German-Italian model" (Series D, Vol. 11, 
>>>	Doc. 35).

>>>	That these do not include genocidal wishes is hard for me
>>>	to accept.
 
>> If these were dated 1943 it would be hard to argue, but they are
>> dated 1940.  Almost nobody considered the "German-Italian model"
>> to include genocide in 1940.  (In the case of Italy, it never did.)

>	I concur. "Genocidal" in this context is too strong
>	a word.

>> You must also remember that the Mufti was not then (or ever) a 
>> confidant of the Nazi inner circle.  What can be seen in these
>> documents is a straightforward case of ass-licking.  

>	I quite disagree. A model of extreme repression and creeping
>	annihilation was already in effect in the early '40s. You 
>	didn't have to be a confidant of the Nazi inner circle to
>	realize that, and the prospects of the long-term effects
>	of this model, I think, were quite appealing to the Mufti.
>	Of course, if that can help winning the Nazis' heart - why
>	not?

The issue is who knew what about "the prospects of the long-term 
effects".  I agree with your second sentence.

>>The Mufti
>> was (a) convinced that the Axis would win the war, and (b) totally
>> disenchanted with the British.  Since he foresaw that the Germans
>> were going to replace the British as the colonial masters of the
>> Middle East, he sought to use active collaboration as a way of
>> winning German support for his ambitions (which naturally 
>> included a Palestine under his own control).  In his 
>> communications with the Nazis, his deliberate aping of their
>> rhetoric is really obvious.  
 
>> Incidentally, nearly everything in the preceding paragraph can
>> be also said about Lehi, who continued trying unsuccessfully to
>> strike a deal with the Nazis until at least the end of 1941.
>> (However, I do not consider these two examples to be equally 
>> reprehensible, as I have said here many times.)

>	I'd be interested to compare the Lehi proposals to
>	the Nazis with the Mufti's. Did the Lehi also suggested
>	to solve the Arab question according to some racial or 
>	national model?

No, but if there was such a phrase in the standard Nazi lexicon
I don't doubt they would have used it.  What the Lehi proposal
does is talk about the "Jewish question" in words that
superficially mimic the Nazi usage.  Some relevant snipets:

   It is often stated in the speeches and utterances of the leading
   statesmen of National Socialist Germany that a precondition of
   the New Order in Europe requires the radical solution of the
   Jewish question through evacuation ('Jew-free Europe').

   ...
   [Lehi] is of the opionion that..
      3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national
   and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich,
   would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future
   German position of power in the Near East.

   Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under
   the condition of the abovementioned national aspirations of the
   Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German
   Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side.
   ...
   The NMO is closely related to the totalitarian movements of Europe
   in its ideology and structure.

These extracts don't give a good overall picture.  The full text
appears in MEQ #15.  

>Noam

Brendan.