HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz)
Subject: Re: Info on LYONs
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:27:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.220011.5631@newsance.att.com> dgleiter@newsance.att.com (David E Gleiter;79A302L;4078754142) writes:
>Does anyone have information on LYONs (Liquid Yield Option Notes)? I have
>recently had a broker call me on these notes which provide a minimum return
>of 6.5% and an unlimited maximum return. From what I understand, it is a note
>that you purchase with a specified maturity date and is somehow associated
>with a stock. At or before the maturity date, you can cash in the note at
>current price of the stock or convert to a bond. Any and all information
>would be appreciated. Thanks.

I've looked at a few of these. They are zero-coupon convertible bonds
where the buyer can put the bond to the issuer on specific dates prior
to the maturity dates - a fairly complex security.

To put the last sentence in English, using a fictitious example:
Corporation XXX issues a LYON, original issue price $500 for a bond
which has $1000 face value and will mature at $1000 on January 15,
2002. This bond is zero-coupon, i.e. it doesn't pay you anything
between now and 2002. However, you will have to pay taxes on the
imputed interest each year or about $72 dollars of taxable income per
bond per year, due to IRS rules on original issue discount (OID)
bonds. It is convertible into 5 shares of common stock of XXX. The
common currently trades at $90/share, so the conversion value is worth
$450 at present prices. 

So far, it is a simple (:-) zero-coupon convertible. But there are a
couple more features to the bond. On January 15, 1998, you can put the
bond to the company (sell it back to the issuer) at $750. In addition,
the company can call the bond at any time after Jan. 15, 1996.

If the stock price goes down, this convertible will act like a
zero-coupon bond, and will trade based on the yield to put - which
makes it a pretty short-term bond with not too much interest rate
sensitivity. If the stock price goes up, you share in the gain, minus
any premium to the conversion price that you paid when you bought the
bond (in the above example the premium is $500/450 - 1 = 11%). 

IMO: These bonds are, as your broker indicated, very conservative
vehicles (assuming the company is a good credit risk). They are
especially attractive when the premium is small or non-existent.

Don



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Katz                                .         Physical
                                       .- / \ -.      Sciences
University of Wisconsin - Madison   ./'  /+-+\  `\.       Laboratory   E-MAIL
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker)
Subject: Re: IBM Dividend -- Speculation, please!
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:27:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.140832.63057@cc.usu.edu> fajack@cc.usu.edu writes:
>
>	My guess is that the share price of IBM now is already taken the
>divident cut into consideration.  I will be surprise to see it drops below 45.

It will not.  Chris Long says it's going to 55.  I want it to go to
55, now that I'm finally long.  Therefore, it's going to 55.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhsu@eng-nxt03.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason Hsu)
Subject: Re: Index funds
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:08:50 GMT

In article <185096@pyramid.pyramid.com> pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com  
(Paul Collacchi) writes:
> |> Question:  If anybody (eg. you or I) can consistently pick  
outperforming
> |> mutual
> |> funds, then must there be an ineffiency in the system?
> |> 
> |> Here are a couple possible answers:
> |> (a) Yes, there is an inefficiency, it's all those financial planners
> and brokers who
> |> have other goals than recommending the best funds to their clients.
> |> (b) The premise is invalid; you and I can't consistently pick  
outperforming
> |> mutual funds.
> |> 
> |>
> 
> Both are probably true.  How can both be true?  It depends upon what 
> assumptions you make about the flow of information.  Premise (b) assumes
> that complete information eventually shows up in the market price of 
> a security.  Premise (a) acknowledges that the stock price doesn't 
> instantly reflect the information change.  
> 
> Through market mechanisms, (b) is probably more accurate

If the "efficient market hypothesis" is true, then why do most  
institutions and mutual funds underperform the market with their stock  
picks?  Couldn't you beat the S&P 500 simply by buying the less popular  
S&P 500 stocks?
Newsgroups: misc.invest,news.answers
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: Body Shop Update?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:51:04 GMT

In article <4250055@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> lynch@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Howard Lynch) writes:
>Anybody out there own Body Shop or start following it after the flurry
>of postings about it a month ago?
>
>If so, could you post a technical (stock price performance) or
>fundamental (busisness performance) update?

Some time in December Body Shop sent me the British version of an
annual report and a variety of fliers with articles about the
company by various analysts. Recently earnings in Europe (mostly
England I guess) have been declining because of the recesssion but
they are opening lots of new stores in the US (and a couple other
countries) so some of the analysts felt overall earnings will
improve. Stock price performance has not been good in the past year.
The stock was recommended by Peter Lynch a year or more ago after
his daughters came home from the Burlington (MA, USA) store raving
about their products.

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ywong@eli.hc.ti.com (Yiwan Wong)
Subject: who should be reponsible for a bad fill?
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:35:14 GMT

Here is the situation: my broker (Charles Schwab) called to confirm a put
option trade (followed up by a trade confirmation in the mail) one day and
the next day, they called again saying the trade was cancelled because it
was a "bad fill".  The question is, can I hold Schwab responsible for this
error and any subsequent losses on my part due to this "false trade
confirmation"? 

-- YW
 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Investment Coops
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:28:20 GMT

In article <8391@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> keithr@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Keith D Rule) writes:
>
>I'm interested in gathering information on Investment
>Coops. I recently read an artical (though I can't
>remember where) that claimed 85% of all investment
>coops have a better return than the S&P 500, as 
>opposed to 25% of Mutual Funds.
>
>As I understand it, investment coops are a group
>of folks who get together, pool their money, create
>an investment strategy, and make investments with their
>pooled money. This sounds attractive to me for several reasons:
>
>What I haven't found is a book on starting or finding
>an investment coop. It's seems like there would be many
>legal, tax, and logistical problems to overcome to make
>an investment coop work.

These are popular in CA with Asian ethnic groups.  There is a long
tradition both here and in the home country, giving confidence to
the mechanics of the group.  Also, there are family and
community ties that aren't as strong generally in the US.
Also, US banks don't like funding the shoe-string businesses that
recent immigrants start, so they have to rely on other capital
sources.

In the US legal contracts replace or supplement community ties.
I'd suggest a written contract for sharing of profits and losses,
coming and going of members, and arbitration procedures in case
disagreements come up and it is one person's word against another.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: naz@mickey-csdl.jsc.nasa.gov (Nazareth Bedrossian)
Subject: Upjohn - Comments?
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Draper Lab - Houston
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:33:24 GMT

Any comments regarding Upjohn's prospects? Its at the low end of the 52wk
trading range (45-28). Is anyone in the networld following this stock, and
if so any reccomendations (buy-sell)/insights? Thnx in advance.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bair@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (matthew.a.bair)
Subject: Looking for good investment book!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:54:56 GMT


I'm looking for a good book on investing.  I have very little knowledge of
the markets and how they work.  I'm looking for something that covers the
basics and has some practical advice and suggestions for someone who is just
entering the investing "arena."  Would also be helpful if long-term apsects
of retirement concerns are addressed too.  I am planning on continuing my
education in this area further, but I just need to get my first foot through
the door.  Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Matthew Bair
(708)979-3170
AT&T Belll Labs
bair@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro)
Subject: average basis question
Summary: mutual funds
Organization: Digitopolitan Embassy to the US
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:12:16 GMT

I have a question about the average basis method for mutual
funds.  The question is basically this:
After a sale, how is the new average basis computed?

According to the relevant IRS pubs, average basis is defined
as the total adjusted basis divided by the number of shares.
They also say that FIFO is used -- the first shares acquired are
deemed to have been disposed of first.

Ok...now for an example illustrating my question...

bought 100 shares at $10
bought 100 shares at $1

total adj basis = 100*$10 + 100*$1 = $1100
total shares = 200
avg basis = $5.50

I now sell 100 shares.  Using FIFO, I have a 100($10-$5.50)= $450
loss.

Now the tricky part...what is the new average basis?
This comes down to what is the total adjusted basis.
The remaining shares were all acquired for $1, 
so looking at it that way, total adjusted basis = $100, so
avg basis = $1 at this point.
Or, does the IRS hold that the previous average basis
becomes the new basis, i.e. when the average basis of $5.50
was computed, this "replaced" the actual basis, and thus 
the total adjusted basis would be 100*5.50 = $550, for an
average basis of $5.50.  The various IRS publications
are very ambiguous on this -- the examples they give never
show how to recompute avg basis after a sale.

Anyone have a definitive answer on this?


--
Rich Carreiro
ARPA: rlcarr@athena.mit.edu
UUCP: ...!mit-eddie!mit-athena!rlcarr
BITNET: rlcarr@athena.mit.edu
From: schindler@csa1.lbl.gov (AARON SCHINDLER)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Day Trading
Date: 28 Jan 1993 12:21 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.196
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <6663@rosie.NeXT.COM>, James_Conley@NeXT.COM writes...
> 
>	I've wondered about all those software packages that are sold to day  
>traders.  You know, the guys with the Quotrons and bad eye-sight.  Anyway, my  
>real question is how these people can trade without getting murdered by  
>commissions.  
> 
>	Anyone do this?  Could you describe how it works?
> 
>Mike

For example, with PBS's new commission schedule, the commission on >1000 shares
is $.02/share.  Round trip would be $.04/share.  At this commission rate you 
can make a profit on a sixteenth of a point move.  At this level we are in a
regime where the bid/asked spread is more annoying than the commissions.

In fact, with Aurex (800-26-AUREX) once you get past their $40 minimum you can
trade for $.01/share.  Imagine buying 12,000 shares of Microsoft at $90 per 
share for a $1.08M investment for a $120 commission!

|=======================================================================|
| Aaron Schindler                                Schindler@csa.lbl.gov  |
|                                                                       |
| There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate:     |
| when he can't afford it, and when he can.        --Mark Twain         |
|=======================================================================|

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: duel@shell.portal.com (Omid M Farr)
Subject: Re: Powersoft and Gupta Technologies
Organization: Portal Communications Company
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:43:25 GMT

In article <C1FrsL.CLy@hfglobe.intel.com> shuo@viper.intel.com (Shuo Li) writes:
>    I heard that these database/network software companies are going
>to hit the street this week. 
>    Anyone knows the potentials of the two companies and what should
>I call to enter a position?

I don't know the potentials, but Powersoft should be priced during the first
week of Feb.  Current price range: 13-15.  You can call Alex Brown and see if
you can get your hands on shares -- but I doubt it since early indications are
that it will open up 3 points higher when it hits the street.
Symbol will be PWRS.

Couldn't find anything on Gupta Tech...



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: LOTUS WALMART
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:07:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1993Jan27.184310.19015@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> smith@navajo.rc.arizona.edu (dennis smith) writes:
>What is the net wisdom on LOTUS (software company). Forbes magazine has 
>a favorable article on this company.
>Also I understand that WallMart is going to split. When this is going to
>happened and how.                
>Thanks   Dennis.

This already happened.  In a recent news article Walmart announced:
Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the nation's largest retailer, said its
board of directors declared a 2-for-1 stock split in the form of a
100-percent stock dividend.  The stock dividend will be distributed
Feb.  25 to shareholders of record Feb.  2.

-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic New York State Mid-Hudson Valley.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: kester@mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)
Subject: Re: how good is investor business daily ?
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:16:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.154243.63176@cc.usu.edu> fajack@cc.usu.edu writes:
>	Anyone out there subscribe to the Investor Business Daily ?  How is it
>compare to the Wall Street Journal ?  
>	I have access to the Wall Street Journal, and thinking maybe one
>additional source of information may help.
>
 
They offer (at least they used to) a free 2 week subscription.  Maybe someone
can post the phone number?

I read O'Neill's book (he's the publisher of IBD), in which he explains his
investing method. The guy may be good at investing, but he sure can't write!
One of the most poorly written books I've run across!

Dan Kester
kester@mte.ncsu.edu
From: tony2@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (gozdz,antoni s)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Visa Card auto-payment
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:13:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1k4015INN98j@CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> chang-mark-yan-ming@cs.yale.edu (Mark Yan-Ming Chang) writes:
>
>Any one knows a Visa/MC that has automatic payment linking to checking 
>accounts? The card should not charge annual fee either. 
>(Discover has auto-payment, but it isn't Visa)
>-- 
>--- Mark (changym@cs.Yale.edu, decvax!yale!changym, changym@YaleCS.BITNET)

Remember, it takes two to tango, i.e., your card issuer
and your bank where you keep your checking account.

How to get a great deal? Run up >$1,000 on any credit
card (it's not that difficult, right?), get an AT&T
VISA Gold application (income >$35,000/yr) approved,
ask them for a checkbook (it takes 2-3 weeks), pay
off your old credit card with one of them checks :-)
and cut up the old card.  Your Gold VISA is free for
life, has good additional benefits, great service, and
works as a telephone card, too. Current rate is 13.9%
or 14.9%, don't remember. Can't beat the deal!

You may be able to set up an automatic payment of your
credit card by providing your bank with a VISA/MC
monthly statement and arranging a telephone payment
service. AT&T VISA currently does not provide it, as
they don't own (yet) any banks.

Tony
tony2@cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: islandia@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (alan.b.karpe)
Subject: Re: Quicken Bugs
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:07:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.133946.23055@news.acns.nwu.edu> stubaker@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Stuart Baker) writes:
>
>I am actually posting this for my father  He has noted several quirky bugs, 
>some of which have been reported in misc.invest.

>What he is doing is getting together a list of these bugs to forward them to
>Intuit.  If anyone wants to forward me any "investment bugs" they have had I
>will make sure they get in Intuits hands for further development.  

I own some unit trusts containing Bonds.  Recently some of the unit trusts
have returned some principal.  I used the option Rtrncap to enter the 
return of principal.  The portfolio value shows a loss and does not reduce the
cost basis of the unit trust.  You update the value with the new value 
per unit, and all the program sees is the lower value and does not take into
account that you have a lower value because you received cash back.





-- 
   __  ______  _  ______ | Alan B. Karpe          | A.T.&T. Bell Labs
  /  )   /    ( )   /    | !{att.com!aluxpo!karpe | 1247 S. Cedar Crest Blvd.
 /--/   /     /\,  /     | .. 1-215-770-2264      | Allentown, Pa. 18103
/  (   /     (_/\ /      | fax 1-215-770-2820     | Room alc 2a131b
From: chang-mark-yan-ming@cs.yale.edu (Mark Yan-Ming Chang)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: rollover into 2 funds, ok?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:37:00 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: na-gw.cs.yale.edu


My IRA CD matured, so I put the money into my checking account, 
and rolled over some into a Vanguard fund.
I want to rollover the rest into a Fidelity fund. I think this 
is allowd by IRS. But any other problems, like reporting, etc?
-- 
--- Mark (changym@cs.Yale.edu, decvax!yale!changym, changym@YaleCS.BITNET)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: sawyer@twg.com (Bruce B. Sawyer)
Subject: Re: eliminate the broker for mutual funds?
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:18:02 GMT

In article <1jpivrINN3av@uwm.edu> glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:
>I would like to invest $2000 in a no load mutual fund.   I want
>to invest in such a manner so as to maximize the percentage of
>my money that goes toward the investment and minimize the amount
>of money that goes to paying miscellaneous fees.
> 
>I am seriously considering eliminating the broker altogether,
>and simply investing directly with the mutual fund.  Would this
>hinder my ability to deposit additional smaller amounts into the
>fund on a monthly or occasional basis?   Are there any other
>possible disadvantages to eliminating the broker that I should be
>aware of?
> 
>Also on the fund I was looking at, it stated something about
>4% going to the fund and another 4% to the broker. Are both
>these percentages typical for mutual funds?  Does this mean
>whether I have a broker or not, the amount of my money that
>goes directly to the investment is the same?  Is this true
>for only some funds?
> 
>Put it this way, if I invest $1000 in a no load mutual fund,
>what is the most of that $1000 I can reasonably expect to go
>directly toward my investment? $920?  Does eliminating the
>broker increase that amount?  Are there any disadvantages to
>eliminating the broker?
> 
>Glenn                                  glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

My suggestion to you would be to place a toll-free call to either...
  Dreyfus Family of Funds       at 1-800-221-4060          or
  T. Rowe Price                 at 1-800-225-5132          or
  Vanguard                      at 1-800-662-2739          or
  Twentieth Century Investments at 1-800-345-2021.
Tell them you want a starter kit with an overview of the funds they offer.
ALL of them offer a wide range of mutual funds which have no brokerage 
commission and can be opened for a very small amount of money.  Likewise,
the amount of successive investments can be as small as $100.  All of these
offer telephone switching privileges, so that for the of making another
800 call you can move back and forth between stock/bond funds and money market
funds.  I know the first three offer free checkwriting (min $500 or so) on
their "stable" funds (e.g. money market, short-term corporates, municipals),
and Twentieth Century may, too.  These are not the only such fund families of 
course, but it is my own opinion that these are the best.  Many people would 
also include Fidelity in the list, and that is a matter of choice, but I don't 
because...
  (a) it seems you can tell the performing Fidelity portfolios by the fact
      that they charge a load;
  (b) Fidelity was way too illiquid when the crash of '87 happened, and they
      played some rotten games with their investors who tried to cash out.
      Everybody who wanted their money back got it eventually, of course, but
      Fidelity made them wait.  I wasn't caught in that, but I haven't 
      forgotten it either.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhsu@dcl-nxt51.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason Hsu)
Subject: Re: 20th Century Ultra & Nasdaq
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:00:19 GMT

In article <1jp3lfINN5jc@rave.larc.nasa.gov> txn@sirius.larc.nasa.gov  
(Troung Nguyen) writes:
> 
> I learned that NASDAQ is near the record high right now, and someone 
> is predicting that there will probably be a correction in the near 
> future.  I currently have less than $3000 in Twentieth Century
> Ultra, which invests heavily in Nasdaq companies.  Do you think it's
> a good time to sell some of the Ultra's shares?  What do you think 
> the level of the correction will be, 15%?
> 
I think it would be a good idea to get out (I realize that part of my  
opinion stems from the fact that Twentieth Century Ultra does not suit my  
conservative, contrarian, value-oriented style.), because I see a huge  
risk and only a modest potential reward.  I also believe that over the  
next few years (starting in 10-15 months), we will have the biggest bear  
market since 1974, and the DJIA will crash 40%.  Hot over-the-counter  
stocks would face the brunt of a bear market and may crash 90% or more.  I  
foresee rising interest rates, which would cause investors to pull their  
money out of stocks and into money market funds.  I recommend buying  
undervalued stocks (or value mutual funds, such as Gabelli Asset) that  
would dodge the bullet, but because value stocks are scarce and bonds  
would tank if interest rates rise, I would recommend a high cash position  
by default.
From: rob@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Rob McKnight)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: My stock selection criteria
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:58:14 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu

In article <1jpoqqINNrje@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> doug_d@sdd.hp.com writes:
>
>Here are some things I look for when purchasing a stock:
>
>1.  %ownership by management.

Which extreme are you looking for?  Why?

>2.  No political touting (e.g. Ben & Jerrys)

All the other criteria made alot of sense, but I don't understand this.
Do you avoid B&J because you disagree with them, or they just annoy you?
Or is there another more practical answer?  I think alot of people
who buy B&J's product do so BECAUSE of their philosophy.  (Obviously
this is just an example.)

A confused novice,
Rob McKnight
rob@studsys.mscs.mu.edu


-- 
Rob McKnight	:	rob@studsys.mscs.mu.edu
"I tried to tell her about Marx and Engels, God and angels..."
Newsgroups: misc.invest