HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: top ten sellers of '92
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:58:42 GMT
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth

In article <CC.92Oct7163702@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris  
Cooke) writes:
> In article <1at066INN3tr@gap.caltech.edu> hacker@cco.caltech.edu  
(Jonathan Bruce Hacker) writes:
> 
>    1) Honda Accord       387,881
>    2) Ford Taurus        347,534
>    3) Toyota Camry       277,792
>    4) Ford Escort        244,231
>    5) Chevrolet Lumina   219,120
>    6) Honda Civic        217,832
>    7) Ford Tempo         213,352
>    8) Chevy Cavalier     212,675
>    9) Toyota Corolla     206,560
>    10) Pontiac Grand AM  198,596
> 
> Good grief, this must be why GM are laying off so many people.  I  
thought
> they were a big company in the USA, but their top model is only the  
5th most
> popular one in the country!  What are the total sales of the  
different
> companies?
> --
> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
> 
> 		
	The other scary thing is to look at these low numbers.  In a  
good year in, say, the 50s, Chevy and Ford would sell over 1,000,000  
versions of the same car, just different trim levels.  These figures  
show that Ford, for example, gets about 650,000 units of sales from 3  
different cars.  Several other models (Mustangs, Crown Vics, trucks and  
vans) add more sales but only at the cost of more variety.  
	In the late 50s and early 60s, Plymouth and Dodge were in the  
doldrums and were selling between 300,000 to 400,000 units per year  
between either one or two platforms, depending on the year.  Now, it  
appears that a sales year for a given model of 400,000 units is just  
wonderful.  Chrysler could never get DeSoto over 75,000 - 100,000 units  
with any consistency, and dropped the brand.  How many 50-75000 unit  
model runs are considered acceptable today?
	Think of all the development costs and manufacturing costs  
(including inventory costs) of each additional model being offered and   
how that number has gone up drastically in the past 20 - 30 years.   
Then think of how the number of units to amortize those costs keeps  
going down.  No wonder the American auto industry can't make any money.
From: norcott_bill@tandem.com (Bill Norcott)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: oil change question
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:25:33 GMT
Reply-To: norcott_bill@tandem.com (Bill Norcott)
Organization: Tandem Computers, Inc.

In article <1bibv6INNh4d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:
|> I have a Nissan Sentra SER and Nissan suggests that the oil be changed
|> every 7500miles or every 6 months.  I'd like to try out Mobil 1 and is it
|> therefore safe to assume that my oil changes can now come every 15,000miles
|> or once a year?
|> -- 

Don't do it. If you read the fine print in the owners manual, the
"severe service" oil change interval is usually 3,000 miles.  If 
you make frequent short trips or drive in city traffic that means 
you should change oil & filter every 3,000 miles.

As for the Mobil 1 it is not safe to double the oil change interval,
and in fact the manufacturers can void your warranty if you don't
stick to the recommended interval, regardless of the type of oil 
you use.  Practically everyone I have met/heard of with more than
really high mileage cars changes their oil & filter every 3,000 miles
or less.   Even people who use Mobil 1 tend to stick to this schedule.

Now this part is just my opinion, but since you aren't driving a 
really high performance car I would question whether you want to
spend 2-3 times the price to get a synthetic oil.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------|
Bill Norcott			GUARDIAN POSIX project
Tandem Computers, Inc.		
10600 N. Tantau Avenue		PHONE:  (408) 285-3253
Cupertino, CA   95014		EMAIL: norcott_bill@tandem.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problems?
Keywords: Fiero, problems
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:12:21 GMT

In article <Bvq5F3.DzI@cs.dal.ca>, smith@ug.cs.dal.ca (Sean Smith) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct6.132550.14132@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
|> [Stuff deleted]
|> [Something about GM making cars for 60 years and not getting it right]
|> 
|> 	I have 1 word for the above:  Saturn.
|> 
|> 	Sean

We shall see.  I'm waiting to see how reliable they turn out to be (no, one or
two years is not long enough) and how well their resale value holds up.  GM has 
to get better - they can't get any worse!

Don Clayton
a.k.a. Rear-Adm. Maverick, DM of the Drow
My brain, my thoughts, my words.
If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a K-car (a nice reliant automobile),
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:49:48 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Oct7.202551.1531@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
|> Being a believer in raw data...

 [lots of GOOD stuff deleted]

 Hmmm... just got the November issue of CAR & DRIVER.
 Oh, good article on Showroom Stock Road Racing.
 Turning to page 168, there's the "CHARTING THE STOCKERS" table.
 Let's see... looking down the column to "SCCA SHOWROOM STOCK".
 That ought to give us a good comparison.  Let's see who competes.

 In class SSA:  Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi 2wd - that's FWD
           vs:  Nissan 300ZX - that's RWD

   1991 Champ:  Michael Lowe / Eagle Talon - a FWD!


 That silly Michael Lowe.  Don't he know he can't do that in a FWD!


 Happy Motoring!

 TRAVIS

 Ya know.  I'd bet if they created a new NASCAR race just for FWD
 with the same million dollar purses, you'd see 200 mph FWD cars
 within a couple of years - just like when they outlawed the big
 block motors.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mann@csd.uwo.ca (Robert Mann)
Subject: Re: Canadian names for U.S. Cars
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:31:55 GMT

In article <92282.111012WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu> <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Hello,
>On my last trip to Canada a few months ago, I was amazed to see just how
>many different names there were for "American" models sold in Canada...
>
[several examples of rebadging deleted]

> Plus, they have different names for import cars and a few we don't even get
>   here in the U.S.
>
>Anyway, why do they have different names for these "American" cars??

Good question. 
Doesn't Mazda have names for the new MX-6 (Serenia) and 626 (Cronos) here in
Canada, but in the U.S. they're just MX-6 and 626?

Rob
From: shin@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Chang Shin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: VW's EuroVan
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:57:41 GMT
Reply-To: shin@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Chang Shin)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo

Does anyone have info or seen Eurovan by VW?

Is that a minivan or regular size??

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: johnson@wrs.com (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: flat engines
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:24:03 GMT

mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:

>In article <3881@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>|> In article <Oct06.055649.20215@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>|> >disappear.  Horizontally opposed engines are the best kind to have, whether
>|> >they number 2 cylinders, 4, 6 or even 12; but they are very expensive.."
>|> 
>|> 	Why?

>        Why?

They're not expensive themselves per se, It's just that no auto manufacturers
are willing to sacrifice the component layout of a chassis so that an 
opposed cyl. engine could be used...except quality sports car makers like
Porsche and once upon a time-Ferrari.  Oh! I almost forgot...Subaru, Chevy  and 
Volkswagen........***NOT***!.

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)
From: paul@eye.com (Paul B. Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: flat engines
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 21:03:09 GMT
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

In article <3881@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <Oct06.055649.20215@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>disappear.  Horizontally opposed engines are the best kind to have, whether
>>they number 2 cylinders, 4, 6 or even 12; but they are very expensive.."
>
>	Why?
Yeah, why?  VW Beetles and Subaru's aren't exactly exotic cars -- or _are_
they????

-- 
Paul B. Booth  (paul@eye.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY  14850    voice: (607)257-1381
                                                             fax: (607)257-7335
From: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se (Per Harwe)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Petro Jelly on terminals
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:16:53 GMT
Reply-To: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Business Communications, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 24165@tandem.com, bill@iron.tandem.com (norcott_bill@tandem.com) writes:
>In article <12127.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds)  writes:
>
><arguments for/against Vaseline on terminals delete...>
>
>|> Really?  That's odd.. My mechanic did it (put the vasolene over the 
>|> terminals) when he replaced the battery about a month ago..  I've had
>|> no problems starting since then, and will inspect the battery for melted
>
>What was probably actually applied to the terminals was silicone
>dielectric grease.  This stuff also repels water (corrosion) but 
>unlike Vaseline, it conducts electricity.  This is the same stuff
>you use to grease distributor rotors & spark plug leads.  

I must have been very lucky buying the right batches of Vaseline the last
25 years, all of it has worked perfectly on my batteries. No corrosion,
great conductivity. Isn't it time we bury the legend that Vaseline is a
non-conductor?

---
Per Harwe       	 	       | Internet: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Ericsson Business Communications, Inc. | UUCP:   uunet!ericsson.com!ebuhwe
Anaheim, CA.			       |
The opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:33:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.093250@usho21.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>In article <Bvnsow.1q1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>|> Why do you think there aren't any FWD Indy cars or NASCAR racers?

> But maybe within 20  
> years of evolution in FWD technology or AWD technology we WILL see
> FWD Indy and NASCAR racers.  AWD already dominates road rally racing
> and is making significant in-roads into Trans-Am, SCCA, etc.

i'm kind of astonished at the historical ignorance floating by
in this discussion.

the legendary Miller FWD indy cars of the 30s are being entirely
ignored, as are Andy Granatelli's AWD STP turbine indy cars.

not to mention the just as legendary FWD Auto Union Grand Prix
car of the 30s (designed by the elder Dr. Porsche.)

many of the classes out there today are intentionally restricted
to RWD; you don't see FWD or AWD technology because it is prohibited
by the rules.

geez,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: cone@controls.ccd.harris.com (Tom Cone)
Subject: 84 X-HIGHWAY PATROL MUSTANG FORSALE
Organization: Harris Controls and Composition
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:50:33 GMT

DETAILS: One of only 50 built in 84. I know of five which where totaled.
         Painted all black, paint like new.
         Only me and the FHP have owned it.
         98K miles
         Complete Flowmaster Exhaust System
         Ported heads and 3 angle valve job
         New SVO camshaft and lifters and double roller timing chain
         Edelbrock intake
         SVO coil spring kit
         Urethane bushings
         Formula GP Monroe Struts
         Hurst Short Throw shifter
         New radiator, battery, starter, coil, power steering pump, water
         pump
         Complete brake job at 87K miles
         I get 15MPG city if I don't stick my foot in it, around 20 HW
      ***This car is a hummer. You don't want this for your teenager.***
      ***As a matter of fact I will not sell it to a teenager at all.***
         Very streetable, I drive it to work 30 miles round trip about
         four days a week.
PRICE: $5000 firm no if, and, or, buts, about it.

For more info. Email me at "cone@ccd.harris.com
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why not a Taurus SHO Wagon??
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:20:32 GMT
Reply-To: stecz@pencom.com
Distribution: austin
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <1992Oct8.213347.10399@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)  
writes:
> Re: SHO wagons and why not, citing hurting the image of the car w/a wagon:
> 
> >In article <1992Oct8.012318.26186@leland.Stanford.EDU>
> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
> >...audi 200 quattro station wagon.
> 
> >In article 1343@morrow.stanford.edu, ari@leland.Stanford.EDU
> (Ari Ollikainen) writes:
> >...Not to mention the Volvo TURBO wagons...
> 
> In article <1b1b29INNlad@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>
> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
> >Keep on going, I'll tell you when you've found a valid comparison. :-)
> 
> Amen to that! The thought of the typical two-hander wagon crowd with >200hp
> so they can "go fast" scares the shit outta me.
> 

An SHO Wagon would make a terrific tow vehicle for my formula car!

--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
Are you truly willing to take the risk of being severely
or even fatally injured just for the thrill of roadracing?
- As Quoted from New Rider Information Booklet of the CMRA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: CPB004@email.comm.mot.com (Philip Bush)
Subject: Re: SHO mailing list
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Distribution: us
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:19:30 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos

In article <12573.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>,
david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) wrote:
> 
> 
>   >Is there a SHO mailing list out there??? If so how do I jump on board?  Also,
>   >anyone have any input about the "SHO REGISTRY"?  Any good?  Worth it?
> 
> A couple of us (at least, Tom Pickett and I) have talked about it.  We seem
> to have enough interest to start one (at least we could have enough input!),
> but nobody can administrate it.  I don't have the capability in my software
> (author says it's coming, as soon as I get it, I'd like to start one!).  If
> one was established, I'm sure they're be enough interest.  Anybody??!
> 
>   >Also, I saw a nasty rumor about a possible FORD paint recall.  Has anyone had
>   >any problems with major paint chipping on those plastic airdams?  I have an
>   >inordinate amount of chipping right in front of the rear wheels.  
> 
> The paint on my rear airdam is chipping off in one spot, haven't had
> much of a problem anywhere else, and I just attributed this to the scratches
> and dings any car gets over a few years..
> 
> - Dave Bonds 
> - Internet : David.Bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
> ---
>  . KingQWK 2.00 .6 # 145 . It's SHOtime...
>                                                                                                  

I'll sign up to be on the mailing list.  Do you guys have any idea how 
many of us there are?

If I had a SHO plate on mine, it'd be

SHOD YOU

/===============================================================\
| Philip Bush                      | "Don't ask for permission, |
| Motorola, Inc.                   |  ask for forgiveness."     |
| Email: CPB004@email.comm.mot.com |   - Guy Kawasaki           |
| Phone: (708) 576-3175            |                            |
\===============================================================/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: roger@cs.mun.ca (Roger White)
Subject: Re: GEO METRO
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:08:19 GMT

c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>In article <1as2c3INN5f2@bigboote.WPI.EDU> beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:

>>	from my understanding not all Geo METRO's have 3 cylinders
>>	I think that one model the XFI is the V3 with 55 mpg

>V3? Hmmm.

>>
>>	other METROS have a V4 if I am not mistaken......and get more 

>V4? Nope. I believe Suzuki does sell their own badged with a 4 cylinder
>engine. A really spiffy Metro was the Metro Turbo, there's a few in our
>city. I think it was made in red or white only, from 1986 to 87 or so.

>Spiros
>-- 
>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
>Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
>GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Ok, maybe there is a difference between the US and Canadian versions of the
Metro. There is a 1.3 L 4 Cyl Metro Notchback in Canada.  I believe they are
still Suzuki Swifts, but instead of being partially made in Canada (as the
Hatchback's are) these cars are built entirely in Japan. We still have the
little 1.0 L 3 Cyl Hatchbacks, but they are inferior to the Notchbacks in both
design and power in my opinion.

I am not saying that the Notchback is a powerhouse, it only has around 70 HP...
but it has no problem with highways speeds. It is a very nice car for its
price. It has great fuel economy, was not expensive, looks good, and has enough
power for my needs.

R. White
(roger@garfield.cs.mun.ca)
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: oil change question
Date: 17 Oct 1992 03:11:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer) says:

>cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:
>>
>>I have a Nissan Sentra SER and Nissan suggests that the oil be changed
>>every 7500miles or every 6 months.  I'd like to try out Mobil 1 and is it
>>therefore safe to assume that my oil changes can now come every 15,000miles
>>or once a year?
>>-- 
>>A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
>>Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
>>
>>"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
>
> I stand by my previous post - READ THE @#$% MANUAL. I would bet an oil change
>at your local garage that your manual say change the oil more often under
>severe conditions; something on the order or 3750 miles or 3 months.
>
>-- Dan Meyer
>
>Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
>Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
>UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
>INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
>

I satnd by my previous question, does using synthetic oil increase the time
Ibetween oil changes, read the #$%^ question
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dan@seismo.pnl.gov (Dan Hagedorn)
Subject: Info needed on Ford Bronco (Full Sized)
Followup-To: dan@seismo.pnl.gov
Reply-To: dan@seismo.pnl.gov
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:13:35 GMT

I am considering buying a full sized Ford Bronco, 1990 model
with 351 engine and automatic, air, PW, PDL.

Has anyone out there any words of wisdom?  I have 2 to choose
from.  1 has the Eddie Bauer package.  One has 27K mi. and the
other 30K.  Both are in very good shape (appearantly) and 
one owner vehicles. Prices are 15-16,000 $$$.

I need to know if these are good buys.  The high book value is
15,000 - 15,500, depending on options.  Any advice would be
appreciated.  Thanks in advance.
From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Miata or CRX? (del Sol)
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:04:37 GMT
	<1992Oct9.191928.18531@meaddata.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd -- Now Appearing Nightly With DON HO


calondis@meaddata.com (David Calondis) writes:

synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim) writes:
> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Mcinnes B T (Dr)) writes:
> Mcinnes> Which is the better buy, a Miata or a CRX "del Sol"?  I am
                                                      ^^^^^^^
> Mcinnes> particularly concerned about build quality and handling.

> The Miata easily, easily wins out in handling.

David> I'd go with the Honda Civic (not CRX).

It's only in the US (and maybe Canada) that the new model is badged
the "Civic del Sol" -- elsewhere in the world it is sold under the name
"CRX del Sol".

David> I once drove a Miata and it's power/quickness was no where near
David> that of a CRX (i.e. 90 CRX Si in my case).  The handling of my
David> Honda is fine as well as the quality!

If you note the original post, s/he wanted to know about the del Sol,
*not* the original CRX.  If you've driven the del Sol, you'd know that its
handling is quite different compared to both the CRX and the Miata. (The
power is also lacking IMHO compared to the CRX).  If he's after serious
handling, the Miata wins out over the del Sol.  If he wanted to know about
a Miata vs. a CRX Si, that's an entirely different discussion ...


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth F.    synth@deepthought.unm.edu    U S E N E T   
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  Oberheim    synth@yenta.alb.nm.us             in color!
===============================================================================
"I'm here at Nakatomi Plaza, they're turning my car into swiss cheese!
 I need backup assistance *now*!  NOW, GODDAMMIT, NOW!!"
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GM Credit Card
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:35:55 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1au8t0INNpqd@agate.berkeley.edu> shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy) writes:
>In article <BvqGs6.44x@news.cso.uiuc.edu> djm48887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel J. Moisson) writes:
>>I just got a letter back from GM's bank and I was not approved to
>>get the MasterCard although I was Pre-Approved!!!!  They said I
>>don't make enough $ being a student!  Way to go GM!  I was just
>>trying to help our countries automakers by using their card.  Now
>>I am glad I got rid of that GM car!!

Gee. with plenty of $$$ (dual income no kids at the time), we got
turned down for a *Sears* card. Reason: "Insufficient number of 
Children". That was similarly on a pre-approved form. 

The next day I got turned down for another dept. store's card, having
applied with their *quick* form, i.e. name, address, ssn. Turns out
I have no assets (bank accounts) in the city where I live, so 
the local credit bureau said "gee, we never heard of this guy, dump him".

Since the card is a Mastercard, Mastercard sets their own acceptance
policies. So if you got a grudge, direct it towards the issuing bank :-).

>Well, since I'm also a poor college student just
>barely making it by from all the fee increases
>they've been having, I guess I shouldn't even
>waste the $.29 to mail in my "pre-approved" GM
>mastercard form.....

It's a plot. The envelopes on the "we'll approve them list" are pre-paid.
(lots of :-))

>can i sue them for false advertisment if i get
>turned down also?

After you're done reading the fine print perhaps...

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]