HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Van Damme studies.....?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Jan 93 10:50:24 CST

In article <C15GMy.6qL@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:
>> In article <C13B6G.2A1@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>> >
>> >Shinanju...spelling may be off.  There are styles with pressure points,
>> >but most of the books (as well as the movie) was pure fiction.  The guy
>> >who played the 'master' was not even Asian.
>> 
>> Sinanju...  The books are very silly, and alot of fun.  The guy who played
>> Chiun in the movie was Joel Grey, better known as the MC in Cabaret, or as
>> Erin "Dirty Dancing" Grey's dad.  I think they picked him because Chiun's
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Are you sure this is the same guy?
>

She is Joel "Mr. Caberet" Grey's daughter, but her name is "Jennifer",
not "Erin".

-Lauren



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: d90eridy@odalix.ida.liu.se (Erik Dyrelius)
Subject: Re: -do, -ju(i)tsu and martial arts
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:10:47 GMT

I just want to add a few notes.

I am a lowly (a couple of years totally) student of the Kendo and Iaido arts.
My sensei is a swede who has been in Japan for two years of FULL time study.
That is all day 7 days a week.

My views of training and the importance of the different aspects of training
is that you can master forms and techniques to almost perfection and become
good, if your body agrees to that kind of training. But with the right
spirit you can be as good or better with a much weaker body and another
kind of techinque. This other kind of technique is a more relaxed and less
exercised kind of drill. Especially in a martial art like iaido where you
follow an exact kata, what makes the differance is the spirit.

(Personally I doubt the meaning of training for self-defence or any other
kind of real/non-competitionlike combat meaningless and thats partly why
I'm training something that is almost meaningless in that aspect (unless
I carry a sword, which, I think, would cause some problems with the police :)
But martial-art is a much better alternative than a handgun since fists
don't ususally kill by accident)

(Don't flame me for this I just stated my opinion!)

((Lots of () too))

	/Erik

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| dyrelius@robin.lysator.liu.se            (d90eridy@und.ida.liu.se) |
|                                                                    |
|   Listen to me just hear me out, if I could have your attention;   |
|            just quieten down for a voice in the crowd.             |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.org.sca,rec.sport.fencing
From: bukti@wam.umd.edu (Andrew F. Maddox)
Subject: Re: Spanish/Moorish Swordsmanship (was Re: More European History)
Summary:  Training vs. fighting 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:11:25 GMT

<article clipped>

I don't know about the Spanish applying their theories, not being a medieval
SPanish fencer, but I can draw a parallel from my own experience:  I've been
working a lot on kali and eskrima for a few years now, and the eskrima is
especially influenced by the Spanish fencing of the 16th-17th centuries,
against which the pinos were fighting.  In both kalie and eskrima (and in most
pentjak silat, too, although unarmed), we use similar concepts, of circles,
arcs, angles, and triangles.  The idea behind such detailed analysis of the
structure of fighting is that you do that in training:  you break everything 
down as far as you can, so that you can understand it as completely as you
possibly can.  You train stick combinations and footwork patterns just like
any unarmed fighting drills.  Make them reflexive, and they'll come out in
fighting.  Yes, we use sticks now, but that's because sparring with live 
blades is just a touch dangerous :-)  I have done many a drill, and some demo
fights, with dulled blades, just to attract customers, and it works the same:
the better you get, the more you practice the scientific, analytical fighting
methods, the more it actually applies in fighting.  At first, you have enough
trouble throwing more than one shot in a row.  Eventually, you start cutting
people's angles, defending with circles and attacking off the lines, and so
forth.  So, I think the Spaniards probably had very good reason to their
non-madness.  

Of course, I could be completely full of B.S. - you make the call

Andy Maddox (also am96@umail.umd.edu) - Death to Long Sigs!
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:15:25 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan23.084454.21697@netcom.com> dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
>In article <QfM7grL0Bwx2QsxH02@transarc.com> Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com writes:
>>	A "philosophical" disagreement has arisen in email, and I
>>thought that I'd throw it out on the net for discussion.
>>
>>	1) No matter how good the martial artist is, there are _always_
>>openings which can be exploited by their opponent(s).
>>
>>	2) The _best_ martial artists do not give their opponents _any_
>>openings to exploit. Either by timing, or positioning, the openings
>>only occur when and where their opponent(s) cannot take advantage of them.
>
>I'd guess that both are true.  "Which can be exploited" is somewhat vague;
>"theoretically exploited" might be better.
>
>
>Just as a parting shot: an advanced internal stylist would have no holes.
>They would sense the chi in the opponent's attack.  They could then
>counter the attack before it had been fully manifested by the opponent.  ;-)
>

Or, as Miyamoto Musashi would have put it, "sen-sen-no-sen".

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Subject: Re: difference between quarterstaff and jo?
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center	
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:09:35 GMT

> Also, why is it called a "quarterstaff"? 

Hmmm, I saw one in a replica arms catalog and it was shaped as an octagon.
So to build one, I quartered a 8" diameter hickory, located the octagon
on each side, fixed a jack plane upside down in a vise, after rough shaping
with a drawknife.  An hour's work max.  The only problem was the silly
thing wanted to curve as it dried, but I was able to bend it to be pretty
straight, using by B&D workmate.

Did I answer the question.  No, unless the quarterstaff refers to the
fashioning of a staff from a quarter of wood.  There are supposedly
advantages to wood working a quarterpiece, stability and grain prettiness
if I recall (strength?).

BTW, round staffs/cudgels/bo/jos are more comfortable in your hand.

================== We Design and Build Fine Networks ===================
		Stephen Ray Northcutt (703) 663-4447
Disclaimer: The Public Affairs Officer speaks for this Naval Lab, not me!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Re: MARTIAL FARTS!?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
	<C16JHC.D1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:21:55 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:15:12 GMT, shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) said:
Sam> Nntp-Posting-Host: navajo.ucs.indiana.edu

Sam> In article <1993Jan20.222806.249@unislc.uucp>, tim@unislc.uucp (Tim Morrison) says most sayishly:
>David Poore (poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu) wrote:
>: In article <1993Jan19.023724.11382@fuug.fi> an1840@anon.penet.fi writes:
>: >that's right!! the most embarrassing thing is when youre doing kicks or
>: >something, and you let one rip!!! honestly, how can i avoid this? ..kick
>: >kick kick fart kick...
>: 
>: 
>You don't want to avoid this - it's an awsome technique that makes
>people famous. Haven't you ever heard of Bill "Superfart" Wallace?
>

Sam> Ooh, a story. :)  Tell us.

The best story I know is in "The Seven Bamboo Tablets..." by Deng
Ming-Dao (and a late "Thank you" to the various people on the net who
mentioned it in their posts).  It is the biography of Kwan Saihung a
Taoist monk and martial artist in China.

He thought highly of his prowess and challenged a master one day.
Kwan was good enough to almost have the master defeated by the use of
Mongolian wrestling, when the master uleashed his secret weapon: a
tremendous fart that so weakened Kwan that he was easily defeated.

The master then explained that he at a variety of herbs and spices to
achieve this effect and offered to teach our hero.  Kwan declined.

Moral:  Cultivate your talent.  And read Deng Ming-Dao's books.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Women murdered in Mass.
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:52:16 GMT

Mary Malros mentioned a few days ago that a woman in Massachusetts who
had Model Mugging training was killed by her husband, but didn't know
any other details.  The New York Times has an article today which
mentions some.

Apparently this woman had been abused for a long time, was filing for
divorce, had a court restraining order on her husband, has taken self
defense classes (NYT was not specific about what kind), kept her
movements secret, and had hired a private detective to follow her
husband (the purpose of this was unclear to me).  In her divorce
filing she claims that he said he would kill her if she left him.

All this seems like pretty good precautions.  Well, she went out to
get her mail and her husband shot her, then shot himself.

Basically, it seems to me that the woman's training didn't fail her at
all.  If someone really wants to kill you he/she can.  As we have
seen, it is not even that hard to pull a gun on the president.  From
what the NYT said, this wasn't a case of her trying to defend herself
and getting stomped.  He just shot her.

The article was only peripherally about this case.  It was really
about the Governor of Massachusetts wanting to pardon women who killed
abusive husbands.  It mentioned that nationwide something like 35% of
murdered women are killed by lovers/husbands, but the statistic is 75%
in Massachusetts!  

I suppose that could be good news if it meant that the other kind of
murder doesn't happen there, but I think the point was that there are
more battered women in MA.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: Wing Chun Trapping & Boxing & Do's & Jutsu's
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: ba
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:50:55 GMT

>Do's and Jutsu's:
>
>With the importation of these arts to America, and the subsequent influence
>American practitioners have had on these arts as they are practiced here, I
>don't see how this makes any sense at all.  Could you counter this please ?

What is this?  Flame bait :-)?  You're not trying to say that
Americans are so debased that we can't follow a -do form, are you?  Or
are you claiming that Americans "pervert" every style of martial art
into a "street defense system"?  You'll get flames aplenty on this
newsgroup if that's so...but perhaps I'm missing your point.  Could
you clarify how "-do vs. jutsu" seems to "make no sense at all"?
	-One of the many Steves who hang out here
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nlund@kodak.com
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names Summary: 
Originator: lund@viper
Organization: sigh, okay, I'll try...
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:57:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.154720.678@bnr.ca>
                                mholden@bcarh786.bnr.ca (Mark Holden) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.233755.24108@pixel.kodak.com>, nlund@kodak.com writes:
>
>[ I've been informed of a full combat karate-do system ]
>
>Which style of karate-do would this be?

Well, actually I now have correspondence from two students of karate-do
that reassure me that their schools get started teaching them grappling
very early.  Since I cannot verify these statements, and cannot verify
whether these are isolated schools or system wide, any prospective
students are on their own as to determining whether the schools that they
are thinking about will provide them with the same.  The two schools that
I have been educated about are Shudo-Kan and Shotokai Karate-do.

Incidentally, my wife and two sons study Isshin Ryu Karate-do.  Their
instructor has been studying karate for twenty years, and Isshin Ryu
for most of those.  He does not believe that Toide exists, despite
Isshin Ryu having been founded by Shimabuku, a student of Goju and Shorin
Ryu.  He has supplemented his karate training with Judo and Aiki Jujutsu.
His school is self defense oriented.

I have another friend that also teaches at an Isshin Ryu school, and he
told me that while he was demonstrating an Aikido technique, he asked
the class "Do you know what this is?"  To which a student responded with
"Self defense?"  Which leaves us wondering what she thinks perhaps
Isshin Ryu might be useful for...  :-)

Oh, and for the person that tried to answer the question for me, no,
I was not thinking of Kyokushinkai.  While Kyokushinaki practitioners
are extremely tough, and are able to take a lot of punishment while
dishing it out, their tournament rules preclude grappling.

Learning to punch and kick, but not learning to fall or work from the
ground is like learning to windsurf, but not learning to swim.

Nate
nlund@kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Subject: Re: JUDO: Interesting throw
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:57:44 GMT
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, Harris Semicondutor

In article <129670011@otter.hpl.hp.com>, ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans) writes:
|> 
|> Can anyone tell me what kind of throw it is.  There's no hip, no sweep, no
|> hands, no sacrifice, more a circular lift and trip over a static leg.
|> 

kosoto gake variation, sounds like; instead of kuzushi directly toward his
right rear corner, you're spinning him so that his rear corner is now toward
the original right side or even right front corner.  Lots of people do
osoto gari with this type of kuzushi to avoid fighting through someone's
big ol' arms.

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:08:26 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1993Jan20.235903.4284@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.112845.7967@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>>>>But that's not why I'm writing.  I you do carry a gun and you end up
>>>>using it to legally defend yourself, it might save your life; and if
>>>>you've been really good, you just might get someone like me on your 
>>>>jury.  It only takes one not guilty out of twelve to acquit.
>
>>>Actually, one vote will hang the jury: The government then has the 
>>>option of starting all over again with a new jury and a new trial.
>
>>This is not true.  A jury can convict without a unanimous decision.
>>In fact, a 9-3 vote for guilty has been upheld at the appellate level.
>>A jury of less than 12 people can be empaneled in a criminal trial, as well.
>
>I think that's only in civil cases: In criminal cases, all the
>verdict has to be unanimous. The number of jurors does vary from
>state to state, and (for all i know) there might even be a few
>states where a majority of the jury can convict, but as a 
>general rule, it's twelve jurors all of whom must find the
>defendant guilty...
>
The verdict does not necessarily have to be unanimous in a criminal case.
I asked my wife, who is currently teaching criminal law at the local
law school, about this.  She told me again that, in criminal trials,
unanimity is not required for either verdict.  The question of the
percentage needed to support a verdict is still not decided.  For instance,
with a six person jury, unanimity seems to be needed for a verdict, but
for larger juries this has been relaxed a bit.

I am certain that this sort of thing varies from state to state.  But, while
trial by jury is mentioned in the US Constitution, there is no mention
of the precise numbers needed to convict or acquit.  This is to be
worked out in common law - or codified by states.

Charles Yeomans

P.S.  I ain't no lawyer and I don't claim to be offering a legal opinion.
If you want a legal opinion, you should find a lawyer and pay him money.
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books, was Re: No-Mind
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:29:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

>>
>>I have really enjoyed Dan Millman's (sp?) books.  I have only read the first
>>two, _The Way of the Peaceful Warrior_ and _The Warrior Athlete_.
>
>        All in all, the book was worth reading.  The ideas are basically good
>        IMO, but I find it almost impossible to believe that this is a true
>        autobiographical account or that his ideas were not cannibalized from
>        other sources.  But who knows, maybe it is and maybe they are.  The
>        point is irrelevant when speaking to the merits of the ideas per se.
>
Just a note... I've met Dan Millman and trained with him a little.
He does not claim that the things that happen in his books are
"true", he says that some of them happended and some didn't. The
books are intended to express things about life.

I really enjoyed the books myself and I don't worry too much about
which things are and arn't "true".  He does teach semminars based on
some of the concepts in the books. I havn't taken any of them.

Jennifer
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Marked for Death (and fake moves!)
Originator: shulick@cineret
Reply-To: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:34:58 GMT


Wanna see something to laugh at?  Go to the part where the Jamaican
rushes at Segal with the shotgun.. ok, then the cut the scene and they
show Segal throw the guy.  But look closely!  The Jamaican is holding
the shotgun w/ both hands, ready to swing, in one cut.. then they cut
and the Jamaican puts his arms around Segal to make the throw easier!
How cheap. :)  It's not very noticeable unless you pay close attention,
or pause/advance.

Another thing (this isn't fake), which was my FAVORITE move in the whole
movie:  The part in the mall where Segal corners two thugs, ... and he
makes them run into each other, and THEN, he(thug) throws one punch, which is
blocked, and the second one... I don't know. :)  Segal manuevers it so
his arm is interlocked, then he hits him in the face w/ his fist.  From
what I saw, this is probably the most complex move in the movie.

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jothomas@chopin.udel.edu (John Richard Thomas)
Subject: Re: Van Damme studies.....?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:51:24 GMT

In article <C1329w.D58@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Is Van Damme's art a 'bullshit' art, or is it real?  If so, which art is
>it thta he portrays in his movies?  It's very odd.
>Also, in Remo Williams, what art is that? I know, it has some fake
>parts, like bullet-dodging.  But his teacher said the name a few times,
>and it seemed familiar.  Began with "sh", I think.. and it looks like it
>had a lot to do with critical points and pressure points.
>

Remo's teacher Chun called his Korean art "Shinaju" or something like
that.  The book series "The Destroyer" by Warren Murphy is the series
the movie Remo Williams:the adventure begins comes from.  The art is
mentioned in the books.  Chun is Korean and claims Koreans are the
best race and all that bull.  He says ninjitsu is a bad imitation of 
"Shinaju".  He claims the japaneses were not good enough to learn the true
art of "Shinaju", so they made ninjitsu from what little they learned
of the Korean art of "Shinaju"
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Keywords: Vetrinary Assisstant
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:26:45 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1993Jan26.182945.6415@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer) writes:
>I also learned some holds for dogs and cats and raccoons and rabbits while

	Catame-waza ?   

	The best hold for a raccoon is the Daniel Boone, also known as the
Full Parker.  It's accomplished by pushing your head right into the center
of the animal's belly and holding it there for three seasons of primetime
television.
						"Daniel Boone was a man,
						 yes a biiigggg man..."
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: who is castaneda?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:12:47 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu


a few posts ago (i think it was andy's) the name Castaneda was mentioned.
who is he, what kind of books does he write and is it something i could
pick up in a public library?

thanks,

mukund
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:58:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.164414.29599@ttinews.tti.com>, reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) says most sayishly:
>In article <77570@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>>the story of Wu Sung, a martial hero monk of China, who is said
>>to have been caught sleeping by a hungry tiger. If you have
>>ever seen a figurine of a Chinese fellow smacking a tiger
>>in the head with his fist in a Chinatown shop, this is Wu Sung
>
>This sounds rather implausible to me.  Why was he sleeping in a
>Chinatown shop?  And how did the tiger get in there?

Mwahah!  Poor grammar strikes again. :)  I'm sure he meant "if you have
ever seen a figurine in a Chinatown shop of a Chinese fellow....."

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts