HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics

	
	If I understand correctly, you are making an .anim file
	in HAM mode of Imagine graphics.

	The lag would not be caused by Imagine.

	The lag is simply that there is too much information in your
	delta frames to allow quick playback of images.  

	Camera motion (or zoom) is usually creates HUGE delta frames
	when compared to a camera that is "locked-down".  That is because
	when the camera's 'view' changes at all, the ENTIRE image changes.
	Example, if you pan five degrees to the left, the entire image must
	indicate this pan by shifting to the right.  This creates a
	large delta (image difference) that is hard for even some 
	accelerated machines to display quickly.

	-Mike-
From: blackbelt@cup.portal.com (Ben - Williams)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Trying to find the perfect morpher
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 23:09:54 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Steve Koren,

We're aiming at xmas, more or less - but it's a very big job, and that may be
off - either way, in fact. It's just hard to be specific here.

Ben
From: chrisl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Christian Ludwig - CATS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: IFF8 & IFF miscellaneous questions
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:38:03 GMT
Reply-To: chrisl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Christian Ludwig - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Nov10.232309.18659@fcom.cc.utah.edu> val@news.ccutah.edu (Val Kartchner) writes:
>Let's say that I want to use a 256-color (8-bit) grey-scale image for a
>depth map in Imagine.  Is there a way to do this without going to IFF24
>which will encode it as three separate intensity images (RGB)?

I'm not sure of what Imagine can and can't do.

>
>Now that AGA is out, will there be an IFF form to allow 256-color palletes in
>images (without resorting to IFF24)?
>

IFF FORM ILBM has handled 8 bit CMAPs all along.  Just write out 8 planes
of data, and a 256 entry CMAP with 8 bits per gun.  Nothing new or different
required.

>What are the current IFF forms with brief descriptions?  (Is there an FTP
>site available for this?  Commodore should really place their PD source
>code and software on commodore.com and allow anonymous FTP.)  Let me start:

If we had a direct connection... :-)

>
>	Graphics   ILBM  InterLeaved BitMap  (Various hunks for graphics modes)
>	Music      SMUS  Standard MUSic  (no one uses)
>	Text       FTXT  Formatted TeXT  (no one uses)
>	...

All documented in lots of places.  Blue Libraries book, Grey Devices book,
the IFF book that _was_ available to anyone (and is now available to no one.)

>--
>|===== The previous was my opinion -- val@csulx.weber.edu =====///============|
>| "AMIGA: The computer for the creative mind." (tm) Commodore /// Weber State |
>| "Macintosh: The computer for the rest of us."(tm) Apple \\\///  University  |
>|============== "I think, therefore I AMiga." =============\///=== Ogden, UT =| 


     /// Christian Ludwig - Commodore CATS    (chrisl@cbmvax.commodore.com)
    ///
\\\///   The opinions expressed may not reflect the official position of my
 \XX/    employer.   (Of course that depends on which position they're in!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: brett@visix.com (Brett Bourbin)
Subject: Re: Trying to find the perfect morpher
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 23:23:02 GMT
Reply-To: brett@visix.com
Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia

In article <69328@cup.portal.com> blackbelt@cup.portal.com (Ben -  
Williams) writes:
> Dr. Peter Kittle,
> 
> We'll stop as soon as ASDG backs off. They started it, and they need to
> finish it - there is NO way we'll just sit like mice while ASDG  
publishes
> misrepresentations and wildly deceptive fictional comparisons.
> 
> Ben

You know, if I didn't know any better, I would think these people were 5  
years old. Something like:
	"He called me names!"
	"Well, you smell!"

Come on guys, act your age, and let your products speak for themselves.
--			       __
Brett Bourbin		\  / /(_  /\/  11440 Commerce Park Drive
  brett@visix.com	 \/ / __)/ /\  Reston, Virginia 22091
  ..uupsi!visix!brett	 Software Inc  703.758.8230
From: loginf1@gipsy18.cs.uni-sb.de (Uebung Smolka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: JPG-Viewer/Converter
Date: 23 Nov 1992 11:04:26 GMT
Organization: Computational Linguistics Dept., U Saarbruecken
NNTP-Posting-Host: gipsy18.cs.uni-sb.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Gary Walborn (gwalborn@cs.pitt.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	Why NOT HamLab?...
: 

My Problem is, that I have only 6 MB RAM. So, if the Programm is already
very large, there's no more room for the Pic. (ArtDep prof).
But I've found an jpg2gif Converter thay uses temoporary Files, if
there is a lack of memory. So this Problem is solved.

But nevertheless, thank you for the very only answer.

Michael
From: shogun@DIALix.oz.au (Matthew Fitzgerald)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Video etc..
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:28:05 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
Distribution: world
Keywords: Information wanted!

Hi,

Can someone please give me an approx price, (good quality not cheap and
nasty! - reasonable) on the following products:

video genlock, flicker fixer, 24bit gfx card, colour splitter!  (I have
an a500, so I may need some sort of expansion box, any prices??)

Also, I have seen videos being played through IBM Windows with a video
card, can this be done in workbench??  if so, how??  If necessary I coulkd
write my software (if I had the theory!) - and if any hardware is 
required....


Regards,
Matt J. Fitzgerald (Onodi of Epsilon)

P.S. - I haven't bothered findinf this out yet : can I stick a multisync
monitor on my a500???  what adapters (if any are needed!!)
h

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ben Scott)
Subject: ASDG nits (was: Re: Trying to find the perfect morpher)
Summary: I'll be sending you all my future ASDG manuals for assembly then 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 06:52:32 GMT

In article <70034@cup.portal.com> Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>>would be nice if the user didn't have to assemble the manual to the extent
>>that ASDG requires - i.e. I don't mind unwrapping a pack of paper and
>>putting it into a 3-ring binder, but having to grovel through the manual to
>>figure out where to put the dividers is a bit of a pain.  I'd as soon live

>Ben... I usually agree with almost everything you post (is that
>conditional enough? :-) but c'mon... it took me like 4 minutes to
>unwrap the MorphPlus manual, insert the dividers and put it in the
>binder. Yer really picking yer nits here.. in fact they're bleeding.

I said it was a BIT of a pain... didn't say it was doomsday.  Maybe you're
right but I still don't like it much.

But OK, if you want a non-nitpicky problem with an ASDG product _that_
badly, how about this - the JX-100 software refuses to install itself on the
Amiga 4000.  It says something like "C:run not present; cannot continue
install without this".  I believe run was internalized under 3.0 for shell
commands.  Unfortunately, the installer that is doing this is a custom
executable, rather than a shell script.

I'm sure that ASDG will remedy this, or perhaps already has.  And in fact
it's not a huge inconvenience as we now have Enlan-DFS (_great package_)
running between the new 4000 and the 2000 the JX-100 used to be on.  But
it's a bit shortsighted to hardwire a command like run.  (bit shortsighted
IMO not to use a script of some kind for the installer, but I'm sure they
had their reasons)

If you want more than this, I'll have to think about it.  ASDG products are
usually pretty good, though.  (I AM finding the waves operator in MorphPlus
a bit difficult to suss but I'm working on it)

.                            <<<<Infinite K>>>>
 
--
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
|Internet bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-6208.| 
|"Don't tug on that - you never know what ][The Raster Image IS responsible |
|it might be attached to." Buckaroo Banzai][for everything I say! | *Amiga* |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Aladdin Newsgoup/Mailinglist
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:09:13 GMT

In article <By5ovp.n2t@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umkormil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Sean Craig Kormilo) writes:
>	The purpose of this message is to find out about starting a
>Newsgroup or a Mailing list for this program. I have seen quite the large
>amount of good things said by other people about this program. So lets
>give it more support. Things like tutorials on recent accomplishments in
>Aladdin 4D, mailing objects, basically just things to try. Any problems
>could be posted and perhaps some good answers.
>	I not to sure on how to go about doing either of these and that is
>why I am asking. We will need a volunter. Anyboby???????????????????????
>					Anybody?????????????????????
>					Anybody???????????????????????
>
>Look forward to your replies..

	I can start the mailing list with no problem. Our newsfeed has been
having some trouble, but on December 1st our map is changing because we were
mapped wrong for the past month. So, if you can stand some patience, I can
start a list this very moment for Alladin. 

	The post address for the newly-created Alladin list is
alladin@xamiga.linet.org, and the request address is 
subscribe@xamiga.linet.org.




-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson)
Subject: TOASTER: Script Editor
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:00:55 GMT

I sat down in front of an Amiga 2000 with a video toaster for
the first time last night with the intention of figuring out
how to subtitle.  I was able to generate exactly what I wanted
using the toaster and script editor, with one small problem.

Here's what I did:

I created a project with a character book containing my sample
titles.  I used the Alt-F9 option to pre-render each of these
overlays.

Then I went into the script editor and displayed the titles
using a sequence of the following commands:

	WAIT	Pause before title appears.
	PAGE 01	Load a CG page.
	TAKE	Slap it up on the screen as fast as possible.
	PAGE 02	Begin loading next CG page.
	WAIT	Wait for as long as the first title should
		remain on the screen.
	TAKE	Slap the second title up on the screen.

This was to display titles with no titleless gap in between.
(I think I have the command names right, but bear with me.)

Here is my problem.  Apparently, even though each of my CG
pages was pre-rendered, the toaster still takes a minimum of
about 3 seconds on the "load CG page" command.  Since often I
want titles to be on-screen for only 1.5 to 2 seconds, this
causes a considerable problem.

I thought since I had pre-rendered the CG pages that their
loading should be almost instantaneous?  I thought about
loading the CG pages into fram buffers before starting the
titling script to see if that would be faster, but by that
point it was too early in the morning and I couldn't figure
out how to do it.

Does anyone out there have experience with subtitling using
a toaster, or can simply tell me what I am doing wrong / if
I am just out of luck?

Please reply via email.  Thanks,
Kevin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: PCX Viewer?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:47:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.235411.2126@pro-freedom.cts.com> eeb@pro-freedom.cts.com (Ed Brown) writes:
>While there are lots of GIF viewers, there doesn't seem to be any PCX
>viewer out there.  I've recently gotten a CD-ROM drive and have a great
>clipart disk that has the clips in PCX format.  While AdPro and PageStream
>can load these images, it would be lots faster if I had a PCX viewer
>program to scan through these images.  Anyone know of a ShowPCX program
>that could do this?  Failing that, anyone out there got the talent to write
>such a beast?  Thanks for any comments on this...

There is a ShowPCX available on the nets, but it only handles 16 color
pics and doesn't do that great a job.  I work with PCX images on the PC
and have written viewers and conversion programs which run under MS-DOS
and Windows.  It should be relatively easy to write a view for the Amiga,
perhaps using HAM mode to compensate for the lack of 256 colors.  I have
not been writing anything for the Amiga for a while and won't kid myself
into thinking that I could just whip one up.  But, if there are any Amiga
programmers who want to attempt a viewer, I'd be happy to provide the C
source for reading the files.

>        -=- Ed
>
>* Edward E. Brown II             * Internet: eeb@pro-freedom.cts.com *
>* Chemist On A Mission From GOD! * FidoNet:  1:105/135               *
>*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
>               Annoy the media...THINK for yourself!
>==============================================================


Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Imagine 2.0: Bad graphic quality??!
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:42:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bxx4yG.463
Reply-To: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Originator: shulick@navajo


Maybe i'm not doing something right w/ Imagine, but it's rendering some
pretty horrible-looking anims/pictures.  I use 384x482 scenes, with ILBM
24-bit mode, aspect 12x7 (default).  On one animation I did that used a
sandstone mountain, the sandstone kept wiggling around!  That is.. the
pixels that composed the sandstone kept shifting around in each frame,
and made it look horrible.  And no matter how hard I try, I can never
get a nice, clear picture.  There's always SOME aspect that makes it
look like sh-t.  any advice? Thanks.

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "You can't discover new oceans unless you have the
shulick@indiana.edu | courage to lose sight of the shore."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
From: rmal@jet.uk (Richard Lucock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Lemmings help wanted
Keywords: Lemmings
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:30:30 GMT
Organization: Joint European Torus

Hi,
	Many thanks to the people who sent help on mayhem level 5 -
especially Robert Corns for his rather neat ascii-graphics depiction
of a blocker-lemming.

Of course, I am now stuck on another level. Plus ca change ...

Cheers,
	Richard

- Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not 
  be construed as an official comment from the JET project.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: "james kewageshig" <james.kewageshig@canrem.com>
Subject: open letter
Reply-To: "james kewageshig" <james.kewageshig@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:13:12 EST

johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (John J Humpal) writes:

JJ>This post is directed at both Perry K. and Ben Williams

JJ> I just have one thing to say to Perry and Ben:

JJ>   ENOUGH, ALREADY!

JJ> I, for one, am getting sick and tired of these childish attacks
JJ>on one another's products.  We, the readers and potential consumers of
JJ>your products are learning virtually nothing from these endless rounds of
JJ>attack and counterattack.  Besides, you're wasting bandwidth.
JJ> If you both must continue the mutual bad-mouthing, I hope you'll
JJ>have the good grace to take it to .advocacy which is where this sort of
JJ>stuff really belongs.

I think that it's good that this discussion is going on, for one,
readers who are thinking of investing in one of the available morph 
packages would like to know the pros and cons of each package.
(besides, everyone likes a good fight, [see US presidential debate] ;) )

The past messages are getting a little off-topic, but thats in reaction
to some of the statements (and misstatements) that have been 'flung'.
If the messages would just stick to the REAL features of each program
instead of the 'frills', all would benefit. I guess there is a fine
line between 'frill' and 'necessary', so from now on if a feature is
listed, I think they (PK & BW) should explain why they feel it was
necessary to include in the package.

I think that this does belong in .advocacy, but also here, where
the people who use Amiga graphics on a day-to-day basis read.
(Those with Net access, that is...)
 _________________________________________________________________________ 
|0 ___ ___  ____  ____  ____                                             0|\
|   \ \//    ||    ||    ||                James Kewageshig               |\|
|   _\//_   _||_  _||_  _||_      UUCP: james.kewageshig@canrem.uucp      |\|
|   N E T W E R K    V I I I    INET: james.kewageshig%canrem@lsuc.on.ca  |\|
|0_______________________________________________________________________0|\|
 \_________________________________________________________________________\|
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #8086  Head of Co*& XV$# Hi This is a signature virus. Co
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: swssauby@susssys1.reading.ac.uk (Michael Saunby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: 256 color workbench?
Date: 23 Nov 92 09:48:03 GMT
Organization: University of Reading

peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:

>In article <1992Nov16.164359.11853@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
> >HAM8 pics will open on a screen, as will HAM.  There is a SCREEN option
> >that forces MultiView to open pictures on a screen instead of a window.

>Doesn't help me from Workbench, only from Shell. If I try to use SCREEN
>as a Tool Type, it's ignored. I already issued a bug report about this.

And it ignores the aspect ratio too!
-- 
	Michael Saunby (M.Saunby@reading.ac.uk) 
	Meteorology Dept, Reading University, UK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: MorphPlus: Possible drawbacks, problems...
Originator: shulick@navajo
Reply-To: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:48:30 GMT


Well, I got to toy around with MorphPlus a little.  Unfortunately, the
docs weren't around, so I had to wing it and kind of "ignore" some of
the options.  Anyway, these are things I noticed that weren't too
attractive:

1) Almost every place that didn't have vectors on it, it looked like a
crossfade between source pic and dest pic.  This especiallly seemed to
occur on faces and closeups.

2) One thing I found very annoying was that it saved all the frames in
24-bit format!  And FRED wouldn't load these correctly for some reason..
I had to use ADPro to convert them all to IFF HAM, and then FRED still
wouldn't combine the pictures into an ANIM, so I had to do that by hand,
too.  Also, this particular anim was 320x200, and the src/dest pictures
were both lo-res, nonlace, but it still saved it as interlace.  I hope
it's actually smarter than this and can build the animation for you!  20
frames by hand isn't too bad, but 60 or 80....

That's about it.  Remember, I didn't have the manuals at hand, so I
often guessed at certain parameters.  Now can someone assure me that
these things above can be remedied so I can go out and buy the thing? :)
Other than the things above, I was majorly impressed w/ it, and am going
to buy it ASAP. :)

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "You can't discover new oceans unless you have the
shulick@indiana.edu | courage to lose sight of the shore."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
From: christ@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian G. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: gifs :(
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:59:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1e5vl8INNgcc
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: cie.uoregon.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


 If you use HamLab to convert gif to iff, use PCHG instead of Dynamic.  PCHG
is not only a newer format but gives less hassles than Dynamic.
 
-christian



--
  When in danger: beat off.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Latest 3D packages, how do they fair?
From: dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer)
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:40:45 -0400
Organization: NRL SPACE SYSTEMS DIVISION

With the latest in 3D wars, has anyone compared or reviewed these?:
Caligari24
Aladdin 4D (er, 3D?)
Real 3D

I use Imagine2.0, but hate the interface.  Im looking for an EASY 3D package
since I will not be the only one using it (maybe comparable to lightwave) but
with lotsa power.  Does Caligari24 actually ray-trace?  I have heard wonderful
things about this, like it is the "lightwave without the dongle" answer.

Some areas of interest that conscern me are:
	DCTV support
	A4000/AGA compatibliity & support                                

Thanks for any help :),
-- 
Doug Dyer   *    STI   *    dyer@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil    | "(2B) | !(2B) -> ?"
DISCLAIMER:  These are my opinions, and not necessarily |  LOWLY SHOPKEEPER,  
those of STI, NRL,  and most likely you too.            | WHERE IS YOUR PEZZ!
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: murphyjp@convex.cl.msu.edu ("!clue")
Subject: Re: Aladdin 4D
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:38:17 GMT

c60b-1fo@web-1a.berkeley.edu (George Hepker) writes:

>Adspec is offering a $219 upgrade from another rendering package.  This bings
>Aladdin 4D into my price range.  Hopefully it'll be tempting to others as
>well. 

Another rendering package?  Like RayShade? Or DKBRender?  Or PoV?
( Hell, yes. I'm cheap : )

>George Hepker

-jp  ( murphyjp@convex.cl.msu.edu )

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: gcastrat@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Giancarlo Castrataro)
Subject: Re: AGA vs. ECA
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:43:41 GMT

    Why not make it a graphics coprocessor that slips into a Zorro-III slot?
Some AGA resolutions seem very close to DMI's Resolver.  If C= would
only license out it's graphics...
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Tron LightCycles?!?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 08:49:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I'm looking for images from a movie called Tron of the lightcycles.
Particularly, 3-d objects would be nice, but I'm also looking for
other images/screenshots.

Mail is fine, but you can post.

Greg

-- 
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
(:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.animation
From: psv@minerva.inesc.pt (Pedro Sa' Vinhas)
Subject: Re: SUN POV Display?
Organization: INESC, Lisboa, Portugal
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:59:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.140116.28396@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk writes:
>I have just started  using the POV raytracer and I am a bit stuck as  to how to
> ...
>PICLAB & IMAGE ALCHEMY that will both convert from TGA to GIF. 
>
	Better yet, convert to JPEG and keep 24bit(truecolor) image.

-- 
Pedro Sa' Vinhas			Internet:  psv@minerva.inesc.pt
INESC	CAD/CAM	   R. Alves Redol, 9 2o esq.  1000 Lisboa