HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "colin perkel" <colin.perkel@canrem.com>
Subject: gatsha on the warpath
Reply-To: "colin perkel" <colin.perkel@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:17:27 EST

-> Latest: Ciskei dictator Oupa Gqoza meets AWB leader Eugene
-> Terre'blanche at the Sandton Sun, followed by a joint meeting of
-> Oupa, Gatsha and Mongope with Conservative Party today.
->
-> At least these guys are pinning their colours to the mast now - no
-> more pretense that they are liberals. I wonder when the Institute of
-> Race Relations will start accusing the ANC of unfairly calling the CP
-> racists?

   Holy smokes. That must have been a cozy little gathering. Seems to me
that if the ANC and Pretoria don't wise up fast and negotiate some sort
of deal, the initiative is going to be wrested from them by this
alternative clan of do-gooders.
   God, was there ever a pretence of being liberals?

Col
---
SLMW V4.0 Silly Little Mail Writer (With Windows)

Internet: colin.perkel@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.014145.2522@athena.mit.edu>,
femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:
If a black guy starts messing around the white girl will accept it
by saying "that's how black men are" while black woman will say "He
shouldn't behave like that".  I believe that black men will get
fulfilling relationships only with black women.  I prefer having a
black woman who is going to challenge me everyday than someone just
accepting me as "being that way".  I also think that it is a great
disservice done to black women when black males date white women,
after the black woman has been at his side throughout all the
suffering (the black woman kept the family together).  Also, it's
time for us to put our women on a pedestal too....  For a very good
psychoanalysis of interracial relationships, take a look at the book
"Black Skins, White Masks" by Franz Fanon.
.
.
I agreed with every thing you said, except the part about pedestals.
Individually, fine. But pedestals got folks in trouble about white
women, since she is the only one on the Real Woman Pedestal now.
.
I've read Fanon, too, and so did a lot of Afro-Am guys who oughta
know better, in the 60s and 70s. Unfortunately, putting words into
action is a lot tougher. If you've gotten the word, I hope you keep
in your heart.
.
My brother is married to a Chicana woman right now, and my sister
and I have usually have talks about how he is treating her and the
kids (two little girls) and we both came to the conclusion, if the
girl had been black, she would have kicked his behind long ago.
It's not only a black thing, it's a cultural thing.
.
Yes, black women should be respected and honored. But the last time
the brothers were talking about "black queens" and stuff, they were
also badmouthing and backstabbing us.  Self-respect, love for our
sisters and brothers should be genuine, not some media event or
some political platform.
.
Off crate.
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Ms. Daniels publishes again
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:57:22 GMT

Well, you guys.  I got published again.
.
Check out the inaugural issue of "Equinox: Writing for a New
Culture," an independent (multi)cultural journal coming out twice a
year.  Poetry, fiction, essays, interviews, photography and art.
.
I wrote a piece called, "A City Girl Discovers The Forest." It's my
observations while at Hedgebrook Farm, a writers' retreat for women
in Washington State. I touch on consumerism, spirituality, growing
up as a black girl, etc. et al., the forest and wilderness.
.
An excerpt:

The black woman as wilderness.  Unlike Sojourner Truth, however, the
forest is forcibly trained, headed, like bad nappy hair processed
into good straight hair, to have one tree look like another.  Every
tree, like every black woman, is different, full of an intimate
magic.  We dare to name ourselves.  Cypress, redwood, sycamore,
chestnut, yucca, willow.  Eartha, Andrewnetta, Oletha, Syrtiller,
Mattiwilda.  Straightened, dreadlocks, permanents, fades, jheri
curls, finger waves, French braid, Afros, dooky braids.  My name for
the overnight braids that stuck out of my head, making my brthers
and sister laugh:  medusa, after the mythological woman who turned
men into stone (perhaps this was how the Greeks saw black women with
braids), whose beautiful hair was turned into one mass of hissing
snakes.  And yet in the morning, my hair rises out of my braids from
the coaxing of the comb into my Seventies natural hair:  soft, thick
and high.
.
If you are in the Bay Area, you'll find it at Cody's (Berkeley),
Kepler's (Menlo Park), Printer's Ink (Palo Alto).  If you aren't,
write to Equinox, P.O. Box 9984, Oakland, CA  94613.  Single issue:
$8. One year: $14.  Two years: $25.
.
I've also been published by The Kenyon Review (Fall 1990 issue).
The story I wrote is called, "Fear of Hair," based on an incident in
my childhood. You'll probably find The Kenyon Review in your college
libraries.
.
I'm also a charter author of the groundbreaking anthology, "This
Bridge Called My Back: Works by Radical Women of Color."
.
Support your local artist/writer/creative worker. Please.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:10028 soc.culture.jewish:17802
From: sbhimji@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Sam Bhimji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Farrakhan, Malcom X and Jews
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 00:46:34 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

- Wallace (Warith Ad-Deen Muhammad) does not claim to head a sect
- or an organization.  He claims he is following the Islam that
- Muslims worldwide follow, and I think he has done many things
- to show that he is sincere in this claim.  "The Muslim
- Journal" is a magazine which contains news about Muslims'
- activities in the U.S.  If anyone e-mails me, I can have
- a free issue sent to them.  Obviously, include your snail mail
- address.
- 
- sincerely
- ayman
- 

I would be interested in this magazine if you could send it to me. My 
address is : Saleem Bhimji . 3103-67 A Street . Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
. T6K-1S6

I'll be waiting...


Sam Bhimji              sbhimji@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
From: mtitus@umsa.umd.edu (Marvin A. Titus)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Worldview and european Anti-Africanism 1
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:04:14 GMT

This stuff sure sounds like a book that I read a few years ago, "The Ice
Man Cometh".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: buckmr@vccsouth05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:40:05 GMT


Well, for all of you interested. My roomate is taping a DONAHUE show on 
homosexual inter-racial couples tomorrow, to be broadcast either Friday
or next Monday.


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Q. What's the difference between a conservative and a bigot?
A. A conservative attempts to defend his/her prejudices rationally.
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Subject: Happy Columbus Day
Organization: Bowling Green State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:28:25 GMT



WANTED: Articles on wether we should glorify Christiopher Columbus or not?
        I'm kind of suprised that nobody has posted an article on this subject
        since Columbus Day has come and gone.  I planned on posting one about   
        two weeks ago, but it slipped my mind.  I plan on posting one pretty  
        soon though.  Please be precise and supportive of your arguments. 
        Please don't be overly wordy either.  I tend to overlook very long
        respsonses.
From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Good example
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:11:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 

Hi!

I would like to put the following posting as a good example for a
personal development. Everybody should read it and think hard about if
it has any meaning or application for his/her own life. Especially
regarding his/her prejudices. Please try to ignore your homophobia
flashing up.

TH>I think its healthier to see the person first,
TH>and the skin second.  Of course there are differences in the way we
TH>are taught to see ourselves and others, but I've found in my dating
TH>experience that we learn from each other.  By the way, I never went
TH>out specifically seeking white men. Gay men of color in this town are
TH>few and far between, and the ones who are out of the closet can be
TH>counted on one hand....maybe two. It just so happens that the man I
TH>fell in love with happens to be white. So what?
TH>     So what? So it means we both had a lot of misconceptions to
TH>overcome in the relationship.  We got to know each other as persons,
TH>and the stereotypes crumbled and fell like Jehrico's walls, and we
TH>could finally simply love each other as people.  Everyone brings
TH>baggage to relationships, and interracial relationthips are no
TH>different, but they can be wonderful opportunities for growth.
TH>     Speaking of growth, there was a point in my life when I realized
TH>that all of the man I'd dated, or wanted to date, and even the men who
TH>peopled my fantasies were completely white.  That deeply disturbed me,
TH>because it showed me that I could not see my own people as beautiful,
TH>and therefore could not really appreciate myself.   I had to take long
TH>hard look at that, and do some soul searching. I realized that I'd
TH>learned to fear my own brothers (at an early age, from harrassment),
TH>and thus shunned them.  Once I opened myself up to the beauty of black
TH>men, I opened myself to my own beauty, and received back a wonderful
TH>part of myself that I never enven knew I'd lost.  Now I simply see
TH>people as people, and my brothers as beautiful too.
TH>     Personally, I'd welcom the opportunity to have a healthy
TH>relationship with anothe black man.  I think It would do me a world of
TH>good. But down here in Milky White Athens Georgia, I'd be waiting a
TH>long long time.  I'm not willing to do that.  I don't think anyone can
TH>give me one good reason why I should limit myself to dating men of my
TH>own race, at least not one that could convince me.

Thanks for the posting, Terrance.

Yours truly, Carl.

TH>"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
TH>                        -Joseph Beam_
TH>Terrance Heath

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The darker the berry, the sweeter the juice
                                  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc,triangle.politics
From: bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing)
Subject: Crowe for Clinton
Organization: MCNC Center for Communications -- CONCERT Network
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:46:07 GMT

Message-Id: <9210151427.AA27985@hela.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 10:27:02 -0400
From: an078@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Carter E. Bing)
To: drum@concert.net, focus@mcnc.org
Subject: Re: ADMIRAL CROWE: Press Release - 10/13/92
Reply-To: an078@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Carter E. Bing)
Status: O



In a previous article, tmg@nptn.org (Tom Grundner) says:

>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> OCTOBER 13, 1992
>
>                STATEMENT BY ADMIRAL WILLIAM CROWE
>
>
>   Given the latest news that the Bush Administration is going to get
> rid of their top economic advisors, I can understand that Marlin
> Fitzwater has become an expert on White House firings.
>
>   However, his suggestion that my endorsement of Governor Clinton
> stems from my being "fired" from my position as Chairman of the Joint
> Chiefs of Staff is dead wrong.
>
>   The facts are that, as my second two-year term was coming to a
> close in 1989, President Bush personally asked me to stay on as
> Chairman.  I was deeply honored to have this vote of confidence from
> the President.  However, I decided that 47 years in uniform was quite
> enough for any man, and I declined the President's offer.
>
>   Marlin Fitzwater was the President's spokesman when all this was
> happening.  The President's efforts to have me stay on were widely
> reported in the press.  I can only conclude that Mr. Fitzwater's
> misstatement of the truth of this situation was deliberate.
>
>   It is precisely this pattern of campaign deception that convinces
> me that my support for Governor Clinton is the right decision for me
> and for the country.
>
>                            -30-30-30-
>
>
>


--
                           
                      
                                             

--
 "The oak sleeps in the acorn, the gaint sequoia sleeps in it`s tiny seed,
  the bird waits in the egg and God waits for his unfolding in man."
       Funkadelic                       bing@concert.net
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Pres Debate #2
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:06:10 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


Wow.  This was actually a useful debate.  Good questions for the most
part--kinda gives you hope for humankind.

Next time we should do this kind of debate five times with five more
debates involving "professional" questioners *with* followups.

Anyway, my incisive analysis:

Perot:
	when he was impassioned (eg on education) he was magic
	wasn't impassioned often enough
	"too" one-note (in quotes because I don't know how this will
		play to the rest of the world)
	who cares?  his negatives will go down and he can die happy
	"I will not spend a moment thinking about re-election"

Bush:
	very presidential
	relaxed.  Shouldn't have looked at his watch so much.
	He fucked up--and I use those words quite on purpose--on one
		question:  "how has this bad economy affected you?"
		While I'm sure he's a nice guy, I think he left the
		impression that he couldn't quite connect with the
		personal pain (he also faced a hostile questioner on
		this I think).  He did the worst on this.... even
		Billionare Perot gave the impression that he
		understood the concept of pain even if he couldn't
		honestly say he had felt any the last four years.

Clinton:
	very presidential
	relaxed.
	On every single question, he said "Let me give you five (or 2
		or 3 or 4) quick answers/solutions/points."  I can't
		wait to see if this is seen as Wooden and
		Rehearsed(tm) or as Specific(tm).
		I think he managed to actually pull it off as
		Specific(tm) this time.
	Oh, and he managed to go last almost all the time.  Tactically
		brillant.


I admit it.  I was happy with the debate format.  I can't even think
of any real soundbites....

Anyway, I'll roll the dice and say it was a tie in a statistical
sense--everyone's positives will go up--but Bush's one pseudo blunder
combined with the Specific(tm) Clinton gives the edge to Clinton.

In my most humble opinion, this bodes well for Clinton as a
presidential contender, well for Perot as a nice guy, and not so well 
for Bush as a returning president.

Even if you disagree with me, I think this isn't more--really--than a
tie, so that means that the numbers won't change much.

--
Peace.
               "'Sex without love is an empty experience.'
                'Yes, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.'
                             - Diane Keaton and Woody Allen
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: RE: Akron, Ohio
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:20:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: opie.1992Oct15.152006.1
Organization: Bowling Green State University

Thanks for supporting my opinion.  I'm from Cleveland also, 55th and Quincy. 
Where are you from?  I don't know what interest you, but have you been to the
flats. The clubs Splash and The Mirage(?) have some nice females.  Also the 
club X to C(name has changed) is very live. This club is located on the west 
side near the West Side Market. Couldn't you use a nice polish boy now. I now I
could.                    Peace !!!!!
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: RE:  Ms. Daniels publishes again
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:26:40 GMT
Organization: Bowling Green State University

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Pessimism
Date: 11 Oct 1992 20:31:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <37317@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu
(David A. Johns) writes:
>In article <1b7odsINNhb2@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu
(;;;;7202) writes:
-># }For all practical purposes however, there are a great many
-># }whites who are "white..."
->#
-># "Practical purposes" is quite sufficient when your talking culture
-># or sociology.  However, in tracing genetic lineage, relations run
-># much deeper.  And again, there are southerners who are certain of
-># their white racial purity and then cross to have a black child.
->
->How easy it is to drop into our culturally conditioned pattern of
->calling anyone with any African ancestry black, even in a case where
->both parents consider themselves white.  I guess parents of such
->children should put them up for adoption, so that they won't be
->deprived of their cultural heritage, eh?
->
->I don't mean to be critical, since any American could have said the
->same thing.  I'm just using it to show up how absurd our traditions
->are.

I agree with you.  And I've been trying to point out this absurdity.
What I was discussing was the (former, hopefully) view in southern culture
of such birth occurances.  To be more precise, two "white" people, each
with a single gene for dark skin, may produce a child with skin darker
than either.  In southern culture this might be called a "black" child
or thought of as a "throwback".  I didn't mean to imply these were my
views, which they are not.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: The Real Issue (Was: Re: Death Penalty, for or against?)
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:49:29 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <HANS.92Oct11163806@ravn.iesd.auc.dk> by hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel):

> 
> This is going to be my last article in the current thread on the death
> penalty. I'll be brief.
> 
> The crime rate in the United States will only start to go down, once
> something serious is done about the gross social inequalities that
> pervade U.S. society. The death penalty does not reduce the crime
> rate; it is cruel and ethically wrong. At best it amounts to smashing
> random deckchairs on the Titanic. At its worst the death penalty is an
> instrument of prejudice.

Once again, you make unsupported statements which others are supposed to take
as received wisdom.  You do not explain how imprisonment is NOT cruel.  You
factually mistate that the death penalty does not reduce crime, when in fact
it reduces crimes committed by the executed _100%_.

You make the sadly common mistake of confusing slogans and public policy.  You
offer only slogans when public policy is needed.  You are not alone.

> - Hans (a self-confessed sentimental socialist who does not think 
>         Martillo is a "cool guy")

Like all religions, socialism has its sentimental side.  I'm an agnostic.

I presume that you had a similar learning experience with Martillo... who's
still pretty cool.... :)



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Pessimism
Date: 10 Oct 92 05:28:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Qephdxi00WBLI1KoE1
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.african.american: 9-Oct-92 Re:
Pessimism by ;;;;7202@violet.berkeley 
> black cannot produce offspring darker than the darker parent.  The myth
> of black babies coming from such marriages probably arises from the fact
> of marriage between phenotypically light blacks and individuals who were
> wrong in assuming that they had no African genes.  This could happen in
> the south where a good deal of nonmarital intercourse took place (most
> often involuntarily on the part of blacks), particularly before the Civil
> War.  Genes from such unions, some of them undoubtedly African in origin,
> got into the gene pool *socially* defined as white.  It is for this reason

I know of at least two instances where Whites had black children...
something that would contradict your statement.  

About 7 years ago, PBS aired a program on South Africa.  They also
highlighted the problems there by singling out a family... two white
parents and a BLACK daughter (dark-skinned).  The parents, horrified by
the appearance of their offspring, sent her off for adoption by a family
in one of the homelands.

Another case involved Dinah Shore several years ago and her attempt to
sue her mother (unsuccessfully) for not telling her that she had black
ancestry, when she (Dinah) and her white husband had a Black baby.

DCAL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: What's up with the BAC at UNC?
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:28:49 GMT

While at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill ('86-'90), 
there was a push by the african-american students to move the Black 
Cultural Center (BCC) out of the Student Union an into its own free-
standing building.  The hope was to further the education of the 
student community in african-american history in addition to 
improving the facilities that were currently being offered in the 
Student Union (they were pretty sad IMHO).  I moved to Atlanta for 
2 years and didn't get to hear much about it.

Now that I have moved back into central North Carolina (Durham), I 
have started to hear a lot more about it.  It appears as though some 
of the athletes have formed the Black Awareness Council (BAC) to 
help push for the free standing BCC (Spike Lee has also added some 
support, but I'm not sure how much).  There has also been some mention 
that the BAC might pull all blacks out of the UNC athletic program 
as a show of power.

The question this raised while I was at UNC was, 'Why not a Multi-
Cultural Center (MCC)?'  It would be much easier to get this through 
since it doesn't present the kind of isolation that a BCC would create 
and with the high-level of african-american influence it would also 
likely be, for the most part, a Black Cultural Center.  In watching 
an interview of the BAC the other day on public TV, their spokesman 
stated that they refuse to comment on a proposed Multi-Cultural 
Center, because they feel the BCC would be a sign of empowerment.

Does anyone here know more about this?  I have been talking with my 
wife about it and am worried that I don't have all the facts.  I 
don't doubt that there is a need to expand the current BCC's 
facilities, but would like to know more about the situation before
forming my own conclusions.  BTW, I've read articles in the paper about
it, but they generally fog up a relatively clear issue.

Can we get a discussion going on this?

P.S. I apologize if this has been raised before, but I couldn't see 
     any mention in prior posts that I had access to.

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american