HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Co-Dominium Universe
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:15:17 GMT
Organization: Yale University


  I found an interview with Jerry Pournelle conducted by Charles Platt
in _Dream Makers_.  Platt starts out by stating "Sometimes [Pournelle]
reminds me of the right wing bumper stickers that go beyond ideology
and into self-satire." ... "By my [Platt] scale of values, anybody
who refers to the 'inevitability' of war is helping to promote it as
self fulfilling prophesy." (This was his state of mind before the
interview.)
   However, after the interview, he writes his opinion as follows:
"I can't say that my visit with Jerry Pournelle has remade me as a
member of the Right.  But anyone should be impressed, I think, by
some of the points he makes, either in person or in print... He
argues from a broader historical perspective than most of us maintain.
And he is, in the end, an idealist.  He seems to feel no equivocation;
there is right, and there is wrong, and you defend your principles
with all the physical and mental resources that you possess."
 
   So much for Platt's opinion.
 
   Personally, I liked King David's Spaceship and parts of "The Mercenary."
as well as his collaborations with David Niven, especially The Mote.  IMHO
it is one of the best worked out exploration of link between sociology and
biology; how biology affects social movements of a species.  Also, while
he may indeed be glorifying wars somewhat, I think his position is that
sometimes you cannot avoid a war, and if a war is inevitable (it takes
two sides to maintain peace, but it only takes one side to start and
maintain a war), you want to win with the least amount of loss on your
side as possible.  (The welfare of the other side should rightly be
less important than the welfare of your side during a war.; e.g. -Footfall_
and _Legacy of Herot_, parts of _Lucifer's Hammer_.)
   However, to say he is a warmongerer is, I think, going much too far.
I seem to remember an interview where he stated that good soldiers know
that military solutions can only be temporary, and that permanent solutions
call for good politics.
    Some of the criticisms are probably due to the Janissary series of books
which (for the ones I've read), just seem to be formulaic, and recycling
ideas from_The Mercenary_.
    I liked the interview in the -Dream makers-, and he does present some
fair arguments on why a society should be "militaristic.", and presents it
with some historical and logical arguments.  The reply to which, of course,
should be historical counter-examples, and logical arguments; not name-
 calling and wishful thinking.
 
              Junsok Yang (YANJUNA @YALE)
From: james@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (James E. Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: julian may
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:01:04 GMT
	<1acp7rINN3qp@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>
	<1992Oct1.165314.27302@radian.uucp>
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
In-reply-to: kevina@.uucp's message of 1 Oct 92 16:53:14 GMT


I bought the book as a hardback after looking at a display of them for 
several months.  I guess I finally couldn't wait. :-)

--
-------------------------

James E. Jones, Jr.
College of Engineering
Northeastern University
Boston, Massachusetts 02115

internet: james@nueng.coe.northeastern.edu
BITnet:  james@nuhub
Phone: (617)437-4430
FAX: (617)437-2501

*** All comments made are my own,                 ***
*** they are not those of Northeastern University ***
From: HYLTON@sjsuvm1.BITNET (Cal Hylton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Linguistics in SF
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:54:57 GMT

This theme seems to have run out.  I tried to post directly to Bill
Turkel but somehow couldn't get through.  Take a look at Jack Womack's
books:  _Ambient_ and _Terraplane_.  They do some very interesting things
with a hypothecated American English of the future.  Comments on the books,
as such:  I really enjoyed the former after picking it up in hardback, so
much so that I have looked for anything by Womack ever since.  Finally ran
across the paperback version of _Terraplane_; what a disappointment.  I
could not get through it.  Consequently, I have not even looked for the
"forthcoming" _Heathen_.  I found the language in both A and T intriguing.
I'm sure a trained linguist would be able to see how (well?) Womack has
developed his notion of the evolution of American English.  Regards, Cal
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: st1rk@rosie.uh.edu (Maxwell, Darin)
Subject: Re: Musical SF and F
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: music  
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:39:00 GMT

Whoever mentioned Mercedes Lackey, I agree.  Try her _Knight of Ghosts and
Shadows_ and its sequel _Summoned to Tourney_ sometime.  Both have Ellen
Guon as co-author.  I'd like to see something by Guon sometime.  Both books
are heavily laden with musical references.

Also give R.A. MacAvoy(sp?) a try.  All of her books involve music in some
way or another.

-- Darin

st1rk@jetson.uh.edu
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Review: T Bisson: Voyage to the Red Planet
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:25:32 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: adder.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <91840@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.055921.8662@eff.org>, write@eff (Glen Cox) writes:
>>>Here's a fun book:  Terry Bisson's _Voyage to the Red Planet_ (1990?)
>>>It's light, humorous, full of running gags, and just plain a good read.
>
>>While I agree with you that VOYAGE TO THE RED PLANET is a fun book, I
>>have to disagree with your statement that it is "not very socially
>>significant."  [it's satire]
>
>And more than just satire, it's an utterly amazing adventure story.

Wiener, it seems, has tapped into some new & previously undiscovered
meaning of the words "utterly" and "amazing."

I don't think he'll talk to me, so can some good soul who's up
to date with current research in linguistics clue me in?

c
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: body music
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:19:37 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <1992Sep25.174336.26949@radian.uucp>, markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:
> Sorry, guys. There's been an instrument around since at least the sixties,
> whose name I canNOT remember, that you play by, I believe, moving your
> hand either in its (electrical?magnetic?) field, or over a charged plate.
> I don't know what it looks like, but I remember hearing stuff by a Philly
> band back then that had someone who played it. It was weird, early-Moog-ish
> sounding.

I think it is known as a "theramin." If you want to hear a sample,
listen to the Led Zeppelin song _Whole Lotta Love_. The break section,
with all those crashing noises and buzzing sounds, is all done with the
theramin. You can even watch Jimmy Page play it if you rent a copy of
"the song remains the same", the Zep concert movie.

As for playing the body, if you watch Laurie Anderson's concert movie
"Home of the Brave" you will see her playing several odd instruments
including one bodysuit with midi drumpads located all over it, each one
a midi instrument with some triggering a sound and others retuning other
instruments and so on. But my favorite from that movie was Adrian
Belew's rubber necked guitar---it sounded really insane.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Cherryh's female characters
Keywords: Cherryh, women
Organization: LSI Logic/Headland Technology
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:20:35 GMT

In article <BvCnHz.Kr@ansoft.com> ott@ansoft.com (nancy ott) writes:
>Cherryh is also not afraid to make her female characters nasty --
>Mallory also being a good example of this.  Perhaps this is what
>disturbs people about them.

I think there's a tendency (mostly unconscious, since no one will argue
for it when stated so baldly) to assume that the author approves of the
"hero" of the book.  I remember reading an interview with C.J. Cherryh
in which she said "Captain Mallory is *NOT* a nice person!"
-- 
Mike Van Pelt                          Here lies a Technophobe,
LSI Logic/Headland Products               No whimper, no blast.
sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp                  His life's goal accomplished,
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com                         Zero risk at last.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: annoyed at Gerrold (was Re: Chtorr & Gerrold.)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:14:55 GMT

In article <eBusRB1w165w@pain.la.ca.us> d_moran@pain.la.ca.us (Daniel Keys Moran) writes:
>  The fourth Chtorr book is "A Season for Slaughter," as somebody
>mentioned recently. I had the opportunity to read it in manuscript, and
>it's *very* damn good. Surely one of the few really interesting series
>going on in SF right now. (That I'm reading, anyway.)

Was anyone else who bought the first two books when they first came
out bothered by the vanishing act followed by the *revised* return
of the series? Just curious.
******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diane Duane, _Door Into Fire_
Keywords: where can i get it?
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:38:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

st1rk@rosie.uh.edu (Maxwell, Darin):
>I've got a friend who loaned me his copy of _Door Into Fire_ and
>_Door Into Shadow_. I understand people have waited a full 
>year to get copies in...

I believe these two books to be readily obtainable.  It's the third
book (of the four), "The Door into Sunset", that's the problem.  It's
been out in the UK for half a year, and won't be released in North America
(in hardcover) for another half a year.

>Since they are hard to find and many people may not have heard
>of them, let alone read them, maybe any discussion should be
>carried out over E-mail.  (I'm new to the system so maybe I'm mistaken.)

Discussing interesting sf/f books is what this group is for.  If
such a discussion turns into a lengthy dialogue, that's the time to
think about taking it offline.  Email is also preferred when someone
asks a question which is likely to result in a flood of often-redundant
responses, eg "Can anyone suggest a book with space travel?", in which
case it's better for one person to get the answers and summarize them.
An interesting book that most people haven't read *should* be discussed
on the net, if only to spread the word.  Besides, you may find out, as
in this case, that far more people have read it than you realized.

>Anyone interested in the scenario?  The world is set up such
>that members of the same sex often are lovers, with the caveat
>that you must produce at least one child.

Duane, like most fantasy authors, designs the sexual politics of her
world to accord with her own, but those politics are hardly what the
books are about.  I'd say a better characterization of the Door
series is that it deals with the same themes as the Wizard series,
for an older target audience.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   The inability of snakes to count is actually a refusal, on their part,
    to appreciate the Cardinal Number system. -- "Actual Facts"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: clc@kepler.unh.edu (Llamist Lliason)
Subject: SF-Lovers mailing list?
Organization: Holy Church of the Llama
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:28:43 GMT

Awright, awright, I'll probably get a flame or a RTFAQ for this, but can 
someone tell me how to get on the SF-Lovers mailing list?

I'm baffled.

[Donning his asbestos glasses and putting the glare-shield on]
						Christian
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Claiborn, Llamist Lliason, UNH | My opinions are strictly those  |
| All my posts are inspired by dreams.     | of Mother Teresa.  She's over at|
| Especially the ones about panties and    | saint@pope.catholic.com.  Blame |
| honey and Brigitte Fonda.  God did 'em.  | her.  Send your flames to HER.  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| clc@kepler.unh.edu/ C_CLAIBORN@unhh.unh.edu | I do bar-mitzvahs, too!      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Diane Duane, _Door Into Fire_
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:02:36 GMT

ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:

>Regarding the idea of members of the same sex being lovers, Mercedes
>Lackey's The Last Herald Mage series contains the same idea (called
>shay a'chern).  Wonder who got the inspiration from whom.

I know this is a radical thought, but maybe there are people in the real 
universe who are lovers of people of the same sex.  Could both authors have
gotten inspiration there?


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Paul Michael Agapow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:00:48 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

andrew@tagsys.com (Andrew Gideon) writes:
>In article <927@hobby.ukc.ac.uk> mb7@ukc.ac.uk (M.Bloom) writes:
>>I have just read the books Enders Game, Speaker for the dead and Xenocide, 
>>by Orson Scott Card. I found them quite good, but I'm curious as to whether
>>there is a 4th book after Xenocide? In the preface to Speaker for the Dead,
>>the author mentions that he split Xenocide into two books, due to it's
>>length. Did this happen?
>
>Well, I met Mr. Card when he signed a stack of books for
>me.  It was just when _Xenocide_ was released.  When
>asked (I don't recall whether I asked, or if it was my
>sister-in-law, or some other person), he claimed that the
>forth book already existed.  They (the publisher) had
>decided to hold it for a while.

There are been several instances of this. Off the top of my head, i seem
to reveal the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (Donaldson) were written
in one go and published over some years. May's Exile series may also have
been done like this.

>It seemed odd to me (still does), but then marketing is
>a rather arcane majik, don't you think?

Indeed. Reminds me of the Fry & Laurie (2 British comedians) sketch where
on a childs 8th birthday, his parents break the news to him that "market
forces" aren't real - it's just his father pretending.

p-m

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul-michael agapow (agapow@latcs1.oz.au); AI Lab, LaTrobe University 

   "RSPCA. We've come to inquire about the state of 
    health of Dr Schrodingers cat ... "
From: eppstein@wormwood.ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Chanur's Legacy_ ... reviews?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:10:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ics.2AC73C7F.16114
Reply-To: eppstein@ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.

emma@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Emma Pease) writes:
> I'm still puzzled about why Hilfy was wearing black in the opening
> chapter (I thought only immunes wore black).

shrum@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ken Shrum) replies:
> The way I see it, Chanur is now an Immune clan, since Pyanfar is the
> Personage for hani.

In "The Pride of Chanur" Pyanfar's third-best pants are black.
So it is not true that that color is reserved for immunes.
And Personage is as un-hani a concept as Mekt-Hakkikt.

On a perhaps unrelated subject...
Which alien contact is it that the characters at the end of "40k in Gehenna"
are called up to deal with?  I don't think it's the Compact, because
it seems like that scene must happen well after the events in "Cyteen"
(in "Cyteen", Gehenna remains sealed).  Maybe the Mri & Regul?

-d
--
David Eppstein    UC Irvine, Info & Computer Science    eppstein@ics.uci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: apash@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising"
Reply-To: apash@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:40:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.005954.25949@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us>, cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay 


       Does anyone know when SR is due out in the Maritimes? Now that 
  I know the book is out I'm going to go crazy if I don't get a copy 
  really soon.
                                     thanks in advance,
                                                 A.Pash

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Subject: Re: Coming of Age novels (was Re: Count Geiger's Blues and Jumper)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:33:56 GMT

In article <BvCK7B.6rM@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>	I happened to recently read 'Orbital Resonance' and 'Rite  of
>Passage' back to back. What are the great SF 'coming of age' novels?

	_Podkayne of Mars_ and _Starship Troopers_ and (if you
catch the meaning) _Time Enough for Love_ by Heinlein come to mind.

	One can make a case for _Childhood's End_ by A. C. Clarke.
It isn't so much an INDIVIDUAL coming of age, in that one.

	_The Brain Machine_, aka _The Fourth R_ by George O. Smith
is a favorite of mine.

	_Songmaster_ by Orson Scott Card is well worth reading,
and his _Treason_ and the early Alvin Maker books fit the bill
as well.

	_Star Surgeon_ by Alan Nourse is another good treatment.

	_The Cuckoo's Egg_ by C. J. Cherryh is my favorite among
her works.  This one gets rather strange... but stick with it.

	_The Eye of the World_ by R. A. MacAvoy is a splendid
effort, worthy of rereading.

	Alas, the list is terribly long: _Rite of Passage_
(by Alexei Panshin, if anyone needs be told) is a superb start,
but coming-of-age is one of the great themes (_Bambi_ and
_Leave it to Beaver_ and _The World of Henry Orient_ and.....).

	John Whitmore
From: aldis@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Aldis Ozols)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Orson Scott Card
Date: 30 Sep 92 03:36:36 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32

LPR100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:


>   I'm a bit curious as to Card's religious beliefs, if anyone knows.

I don't know about Card's personal beliefs, but he comes from a Mormon
family, evidently.  If you pick up his non-SF novel, _Saints_, you will
see a completely different attitude to the religious.  _Saints_ is the
story of the early Mormon church, and of Card's ancestors, told with
great compassion and sympathy for the characters and their ideals.

I'm not particularly religious myself, and if I was I wouldn't be a 
Christian, but this book certainly made me see the Mormons in a 
different (and more positive) light.  I recommend it to Alvin Maker
fans, just don't expect any magic as this is an historical novel.

Aldis Ozols
.
From: tarl@coyoacan.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein reference in Sturgeons "The Golden Helix"
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:42:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Oct6.185405.3417@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>  Some 22 pages into the short story "The Golden Helix" by
>Theodore Sturgeon I read the following lines: 
> [...]
>but his message was clear at least to him: 'Creation took eight 
>days'. ".
>
>  This clearly a Heinlein reference but where is it from?

"Goldfish Bowl", a short story in "The Menace From Earth".
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
From: agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Paul Michael Agapow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Female writers Re: Science Fiction Age
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:49:51 GMT
 <72994@apple.Apple.COM> <72816@apple.Apple.COM> 
 <1992Sep29.023338.4229@latcs1.lat.oz.au> <72994@apple.Apple.COM> 
 <72816@apple.Apple.COM> <1992Sep29.023338.4229@latcs1.lat.oz.au> 
 <729
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <72994@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Paul Michael Agapow) writes:
>
>So unless you want to go off and define me as "not
>anybody" (therefore nobody) you are AGAIN wrong. You can't go off and
>redefine the facts to fit your preconceptions (again).
>
>>Or to put it another way, if there had been
>>one less female winner, they would be a minority. 
>
>But there wasn't. So the point you're making is silly. Not to mention
>irrelevant and non-factual. 
>
>Hell, for that matter, if we'd taken one of the female authors and replaced
>it with a weird editorial by an alien anthropologist, we wouldn't have SF
>Age, we'd have Aboriginal SF. And taht makes about as much sense as what
>you're saying. Define your opinions any way you want. Just don't try to make
>facts back them up when they don't.

Rospach's reaction puzzles me. He accuses me of editorializing, distorting
facts to suit my own agenda, fills his replies with polemic and invective
and delivers an ad hominem attack for some nefarious and ill-defined
purpose he senses in my postings. Frankly, i can't make head or tail of
it.

The only conclusion i can draw is that this or some posting in the recent
past has been interpreted as a personal attack on him and/or his
colleagues, besmirching his integrity, manhood, what have you. Perhaps my
annoyance with the Hugo results riled him. i don't know.

So : if he's reading this - you have my apologies. Any insult was not
intended. Unfortunately, your interpretation of a simple aside of mine
(which merely tried to emphasize a clear as opposed to minimally technically 
correct statements of facts) has drown out the several important and
interesting (IMHO, natch) problems that this thread started out on.For
this i suppose i am also (unwittingly) responsible, and so i apologise
again.

Enough. Back to reading sf ...

p-m

(PS. David - the review of "Year's Best" done yet?)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Diane Duane, _Door Into Fire_
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:24:00 GMT

ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk:
>Regarding the idea of members of the same sex being lovers, Mercedes
>Lackey's The Last Herald Mage series contains the same idea (called
>shay a'chern).  Wonder who got the inspiration from whom.

Gee, maybe they both came up with this science-fictional notion 
independently...

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written