HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: ESB- Luke & the Cave
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:38:19
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
	<1992Oct13.033351.308@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: sdt8s@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU's message of 13 Oct 92 03:33:51 GMT

>>>>> On 13 Oct 92 03:33:51 GMT, sdt8s@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Steve Tilson) said:

sdt8s> 1. It foretells the Vader/Luke relationship. (It does, but this
sdt8s> is IMHO a purely secondary consideration in the scene.)

sdt8s> 2. It shows that the greatest enemy Luke will have to overcome
sdt8s> at this stage in his development is himself. (This is my
sdt8s> favored interpretation, and all must prostrate themselves
sdt8s> before My Exalted Opinion :-)

I thought of Luke's face in the Vader mask was to show that Luke 
had as much hate and anger in him, as Vader did, and it could have
fortold, if Luke turned to the dark side, he would become another
Vader.
--
 Scott Streeter                             Keeper of the Star Wars Archive
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu        130.215.24.1
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars,alt.mythology
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Subject: Re: ROTJ-Lynch, ROTJ-Soap Opera
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:46:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.235601.19965@udel.edu> lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim) writes:
# 
# 	I do think that some of the classical writers arbitrarily invented
# characters who were related to other, pre-existing characters; for example,
# in _The Libation-Bearers_, by <mumble> (Aeschylus?), there appears 
# Chyrsothemis, a daughter of Clytemnestra and Agamemnon who isn't referred to
# anywhere else in mythology or classical lit. But then, see my last sentence
# from the previous paragraph.

Nope.  Iliad, Book IX, line 145, where Agamemnon mentions his daughters:

Xrusothemis kai Laodikh kai 'Iphianassa

[Chrysothemis and Laodike and Iphianassa (Iphigenia)]

Of course, these names mean three royal attributes which I can't remember
here, so Homer might have made them up himself.
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: dumb Empire question
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:34:58
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: rchao@well.sf.ca.us's message of Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:29:22 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:29:22 GMT, rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) said:


rchao> I really ought to know this, but how did Boba Fett know what
rchao> Han would be on Bespin? Was it just from following him after
rchao> they flew off the star destroyer? (Keep in mind that Lando says
rchao> that the Empire arrived shortly before the Falcon did.)

Boba Fett's ship, and the Imperials ships had working hyperdrives.
Once Fett followed the Falcon for awhile, he figured out Bespin was
the only logical chose, and got there ahead of him. Fett my have also
known about the Han/Lando relationship, which would have left no doubt
in his mind were Han was headed.

rchao> Here's a tough one: if Vader knew Luke was on Hoth, why did he
rchao> get his men to go down and smash up the base, at the risk of
rchao> killing Luke?

Well they were actually after the Rebels themselves as much as Vader
wanted Luke. It was there hidden base. They had to attack them.

rchao> How did Luke get off Hoth so easily?

I wondered this myself. Luke flies of all is quite. The Falcon takes
off and all hell breakes loose. I assume that Vader thought Luke was
on the Falcon also and concentrated the attack on it.

rchao> If you watch Empire in slow motion, do you see Luke's hand
rchao> falling down?

Something falls from the city, but I can't tell what it is.

rchao> When the Falcon is flying away from Bespin with Luke, it looks
rchao> like it is not flying away from the planet but more like it is
rchao> flying alongside the edge of a Star Destroyer. Do you kind of
rchao> see that, too?  Why does Lando say "what about those fighters"
rchao> before any fighters have shown up?

The fighters were probably out of visual range, but were on the
Falcon's radar scopes.



--
 Scott Streeter                             Keeper of the Star Wars Archive
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu        130.215.24.1
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dkemper@smaug.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Re:New Star Wars Books
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Reply-To: dkemper@smaug.hacks.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Distribution:  world
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:21:34 GMT
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In article <1aqu8eINNmr8@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, mmartin@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew Wayne Martin) writes...
>	Furthermore, who cares about the relationship between the Flint novel
>and the Young adult series.  The young adult series SUCKS!!!!! and is an
>abuse of the Star Wars name.  I mean Luke flying a Y-Wing, Vader's glove
>supposedly making it to Mon Calamari, and the whole concept of the Jedi
>prince Ken.  In these books, Luke is such a weenie, even more than usual. 
>Also, they're totally inconsistent with the Zahn novels.  If you remember,
>Yoda's existence and his training of Luke was known only to two people:
>Luke and Leia (who knows by the time of HTTE).  This was not common
>knowledge as the young adult series assumes.  These books serve their purpose,

I don't see how the young adult series being inconsistent with Zahn is 
a strike against it.  Zahn could be just as full of it as they are.

>they're okay reading for kids, but are too lame to be considered a canon
>part of the SW universe.

IMHO, being "for kids" doesn't excuse the gross inconsistencies.  If 
you're writing for kids, you have to write in simpler language.  It does 
NOT mean you should feel you have the freedom to churn out low-quality 
stories and not make an effort to be consistent with the universe you're 
writing in.  The Hardy Boys books were more well-written than these.

--Gallandro

    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bdthomse%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brant Thomsen)
Subject: Rumors actually in print!
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:52:42 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

The October (1992) issue of National Geographic's WORLD magazine 
had an article entitled "Meet ... George Lucas".

In the article, when George Lucas was asked if he planned to 
complete the STAR WARS saga, he responded:

	"Yes, I hope to do it in the next seven to eight
	years, after the TV series [The Young Indiana Jones
	Chronicles].  The first ones were parts four, five, 
	and six of Star Wars.  Now I'll do parts one, two,
	and three."

Keep your fingers crossed!

(By the way, some might find the article of interest.  Because
the WORLD is a children's magazine, the articles was only a 
couple of pages long.  However, it did give a nice overview of
George Lucas's life, as well as trivia such as where the names
"Indiana" and "R2-D2" came from.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brant D. Thomsen			Practice random acts of
bdthomse@peruvian.cs.utah.edu		kindness and senseless beauty.
(University of Utah)
From: cleaver@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Russell Cleaver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: No more movies?
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:36:28 GMT
Organization: Va Tech CS Dept, Blacksburg, VA

lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim) writes:
> In article <92280.133504BNB101@psuvm.psu.edu> <BNB101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> 
> >Lucas was quoted as saying, "I'm bored with Star Wars I want to do
> >something new."  
> >It concluded by saying the closest we'll get to another movie
> >is to read the Zahn novels and Dark Horse comics.
> 
> Oh, *man*, Lucas *can't* do this. Can he?
> He couldn't. Not with all the SW publicity he's churning out-- 
> books, RPG stuff, "X-Wing," and so forth. 

Like everyone else, IMHO, I hope "All These New Developments" are 
indeed pointing to Something Big in the future.

But (if I may play devil's advocate for a moment): 
I suppose if Lucas *wanted* to create a new wave of 
SW marketing/merchandising, just for the heck of it, he could.  
He doesn't necessarily *have* to follow-up this new publicity with a 
new movie; he could simply be reaping further profits from the work 
he's already done! 
-- 
..... . . . .  .  .  .   .   .    .    .    .   .   .  .  .  .  . . . . . .....
Russ Cleaver                                          cleaver@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
From: flowerpt@coos.dartmouth.edu (Bill McGonigle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Bad dub in SW?
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:35:11 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: flowerpt@coos.dartmouth.edu

I was watching my LD(LBX) of SW:ANH, and I noticed that in the "I'm not in
this for your revolution...I expect to be well paid" scene, that the sound
track seems to be off.  Anyone else notice this?

BTW, where can one get the Jap Import of SW:ROTJ on LD(LBX) in CAV format?

-Bill
-- 
Bill.McGonigle@Dartmouth.edu  - Stir, Whip, Stir, Whip, Whip, Whip, Whip, Stir, 
Beat -To Make Bantha Suprise - "Do you ever get the feeling that the story's too
damn real, and in the present tense?"-Jethro Tull  -  I shot J.R. - H. Simpson
Snail Mail: HB 2660, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, 03755-4015. (603) 640-5780
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Vader's Death
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:34:49 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

On Endor, Luke was burning Vader's *MASK*, not his body (which presumably
dematerialized like other Jedis - including the Emperor).

Much was made in the movies about how the mask symbolized Vader being
controlled by the dark side  (Luke's failure at the Degobah tree had him
*masked*, Vader asks to take the mask off after his return to the good side).
Burning the mask (actually the full costume) was symbolic of purging the evil
side of Vader's checkered life.

Dan Shoham
shoham@ll.mit.edu
From: deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Vaders death
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:45:08 GMT
Organization: Galaxy Information System (GIS) 1:133/411 Atlanta, Ga

I say both you are wrong.  Vader's existence depended on the Dark Side of the force.  His life, whether he realized it or not, was tied up with the power of the Emporer.  Without the Emporer, Vader's power and control over the force was too diminished to keep him alive.  

More, I believe Vader's arguments to Luke to overthrow the Emporer were simply to lure Luke into the Dark Side, that they were planned by the Emporer, sinc I find it very difficult to believe that with all the Emporer's power he would not know what is going on in Vader's mind.

Go Braves - Chop to the Top!!!!!!!!

          David Deitch, (GIS) Atlanta



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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: Simon.N.Smith@cm.cf.ac.uk (Simon N Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Sourcebooks
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:28:39 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.

I bought West End Games "Star Wars Sourcebook" a few weeks ago, and it makes
very interesting and entertaining reading (whatever it's validity).  I've never
had the time to get into the role playing game, and still don't, but I'd like
to get some of the other books available - Rebel Alliance Sourcebook etc.
So what I want to know is, out of all the West End Star Wars series, which
books do you think are worth having just for their interest?

Sy

-- 
Simon N. McIntosh-Smith, PhD candidate    |  Email : Simon.N.Smith@cm.cf.ac.uk
Department of Computing Mathematics,      |  Phone : +44 (0)222 874000
University of Wales, College of Cardiff,  |  Fax   : +44 (0)222 666182
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom            |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: Jem.Lewis@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jem Lewis)
Subject: Re: Returning Jedi
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:45:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.093501.9307@vax.oxford.ac.uk> fraser@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <92278.022649MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>, MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu writes:
> I believe that in French the title was _Le Retour *du* Jedi_ (singular), and
>have always supposed that the Jedi doing the returning was Anakin; after all, 
>it is he who kills the Emp. and so overthrows the Empire - there was no way 
>Luke could have done that.
> In ANH incidentally I think the new hope is Luke - Leia says that Obi Wan
>is "my only hope", but in fact it is Luke who rescues her, blows up the DS and
>eventually indirectly helps bring down the Empire.
> Just my HO, 
>
>Rich.

I always thought that it meant return of the Jedi, as in the Jedi knights,
to be headed and trained by Luke.
 
Also, I agree that Luke was the new hope of SW.  Besides being and old man :^)
Ben's dying hardly qulafies him to be the new hope of the rebel alliance.

		Jem Lewis jlewis@polar.bowdoin.edu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ST201714@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Vader's weakened character
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:59:37 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

All of this debate concerning Vader's death and how it was linked to the death
of the Emperor and his power of the Dark Side of teh Force, intrigued something
 I've always wanted to discuss with people:  DOes anyone else notice how
 Vader's character "weakens" as the movies progress?  I mean, in SW...he was
presented as being VERY powerful, and undefeatable, to a point.  Then in TESB,
we are introduced to the EMperor, and suddenly we see Vader as weak, and
submissive, and he is even wounded in a duel with Luke.  Then in ROTJ, Vader is
 totally restricted.  Everything done, is carried out on the Emperor's orders,
and Vader, to me, comes off as a lackey (sp.?).  Here Luke defeats him, and he
dies. It was just disappointing to watch probably the best villain created
weaken and die.  It wasn't even an admirable death...the Emperor would have
died in the explosion of the DS (Luke would have lasted long enough to divert
the Emperor's concentration).  Any comments?

                           Hasta Luego,
                                        L. Eduardo Romo III
                                        st201714@brownvm.brown.edu
From: ST201714@brownvm.brown.edu (LER3)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: ROTJ-Lynch, ROTJ-Soap Opera
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:33:40 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1992Oct13.110151.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>, slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca said:
>
>> I DID like ROTJ, but I would mch rather watch SW  and TESB any
>> day.  They were less soap-opera-ish.
>> As for any new movies, what would people think of Lawrence Kasdan
>> o come back to the SW troupe?
>
>You don't want a "soap-opera" but you want Lawrence Kasdan
>back?  Make up your mind.
>
>Stephen Legge
>SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca


I can see why you responded that way.  Let me clarify myself.  Kasdan would
at least be able to continue working with what he started rather than bringing
in someone new, tehreby making the soap-opera-ish style even worse.  What
Kasdan did was good, but with any new movies he would have the opportunity to
direct it this time. The story was Lucas's.  He intended to have a galactic
family reunion from the beginning, so it would have come out on film no matter
what.  I think Kasdan could relay that style much better.  Also, it's bringing
a big name into the position.
     Well, that's enough controversy,created on my part, for awhile. I thhink
I'll sit back and just read 'til my mind comes up with some new quirks.

                            Hasta Luego,
                                        L. Eduardo Romo III
                                        st201714@brownvm.brown.edu
From: jseaver@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Vader's weakened character
Date: 15 Oct 1992 22:56:08 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

>	One last note: one article I read suggested that Anakin had killed
>the real Darth Vader and taken on his identity. This idea seems better to me
>than him making up a name and appearing out of nowhere. It explains how Luke's
>father could be a famous Jedi, yet only a few people know he became Darth. It
>would also let the original Vader appear in SW I-III. . . If Anakin (already
>evil) dueled the old Darth, maybe most people think Darth won. Then Anakin
>took on the old Vader's role . . .or maybe not.  Opinions? Anyone?

	If Lucas and Company go with this, it could make the first three movies
much more interesting, and add an element or two of suspense.  Another question
that comes up is that of who knows about Vader/Skywalker's true identity.  Ben
and Yoda, obviously.  But what about "Uncle Owen", "Aunt Beru", and Bail
Organa?  While they would probably agree to adopt the children of Anakin
Skywalker, Jedi Knight, would they be so willing if they knew Luke and Leia
were the children of Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith?

	I suppose I COULD mention that Heir To The Empire and Dark Force Rising
make this theory a bit intenable - how would the Noghri recognize "The Lady
Vader" unless the Darth Vader they met shortly after the Clone Wars was Anakin
Skywalker?  I don't think Anakin was turned until a while after the Clone
Wars, just from what's mentioned in SW and the relative ages of the characters.

						-Jay
From: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Related Star Wars Question
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:24:34 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing & Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In a previous article, yyrkoon@lucky.engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Jon Kabbe) says:

>Ok, so you're Darth Vader, lord of evil (just pretend for a few minutes) and
>you are fighting your arch nemesis. Your rival and you are fighting pretty 
>even up when he suddenly looks away. WHY would you just stand there and wait
>until Obiwan looked back and stood there in that "sacrificial position" before
>he killed him. Was Vader going soft or what? What kind of lord of evil is he
>anyways?  If I were Vader I would have sliced into Kenobi the second he took
>his eyes off me.  Just a thought.

Ok, I'm Darth Vader, light-sabre expert, fighting against someone who is
almost as good as me (I'm also arrogant, being a Dark Lord, and not about
to admit that he is my equal :-) and suddenly he looks away and holds his
sword up.  He's obviously up to something sneaky.  I'm not going to fall
for his trap and just swipe at him, though - that's just what he's waiting
for me to do.

<Waits a bit.>

Well, one of us is going to have to do something, or we'll be here all day.
If he does have a new move, I want to steal it.  Besides, I'm a Dark Lord
and he's just an old man, so even if he does something sneaky I can deal
with it.  Right, here goes ...

<Swipe.>

Hey, where's he gone?

-- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dgoldman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Robert Goldman)
Subject: Re: No more movies?
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:44:38 GMT

alumni106@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Max Sterling) writes:

>Well, I SAW the INDIGO model no more than a week ago, and it WAS doing 
>all that stuff. They had a flight simulator running on it which was full 
>screen RAY TRACED, and it allowed you to do anything you wanted. They 
>had a demo of a CAD program running on it which was, naturally, ray 
>traced, and you were able to travel anywhere you wanted in your 
>ray-traced environment. They also had a Terminator 2 commercial running 
>on it in real time, as well as a Pixar animation being generated on the 
>fly, as well as a constantly moving RAY TRACED F-14 Tomcat, which you 
>could rotate along each axis manually by moving the mouse in various 
>directions, ALL WITH NO SLOWDOWN. The person doing the demo opened the 
>box, which WAS an Indigo, and there was next to NOTHING IN IT AT ALL! 
>There was still about 60%+ room free for future expansion!

I think the confusion here is on the definition of ray-tracing.  Ray-tracing
is when rays are cast from each pixel in an image backwards towards the light
sources, and recursively generated at the points of intersection, which allows 
interreflections and light refraction.  But ray-tracing of this sort is 
generally NOT required for 3-D imaging unless interreflections and refractions 
are needed.  The "flight" program which you described is not raytraced, which 
is what allows it to go so fast (you may have been looking at an Indigo Elan, 
which is the souped up Indigo).  In fact, strictly speaking, neither the
effects in T2 or The Abyss were ray-traced.  They used a one-bounce ray-trace,
which does not do refractions or interreflections "correctly" (T1000 doesn't
reflect himself, and the Abyss pseudopod only had one side).

The Pixar animations you saw was not being generated in real-time, but was 
preloaded into the machine's memory and DISPLAYED in real-time.

I have no doubt the Indigo can be expanded in many neat ways, but adding pro-
cessors is not one of them.

>No kidding. I'll be getting one myself, as soon as I can afford it. 
>However, by the time I make enough to buy one, They'll be SO ADVANCED, 
>the Reality Studio will be the LOW end model. :-( Mata ne.

I think it's called the Reality Engine.