HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: njamil@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nasir Jamil)
Subject: Re:  CFV ahmadiyya
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:57:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.210254.1090@altair.selu.edu> pmf$1349@altair.selu.edu writes:
>In article <102313@bu.edu>, khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid) wrote:
>
>> This expression: Seal of the prophets, has been taken by these Mullahs to
>> mean last of the prophets, which it does not mean.  An idea of this can
>> be had from the fact that the word "Khatam" (seal) has often been used in
>> arabic literature to mean perfect in every sense, and the greatest of all,
>> but not the last, of all:
> 
>Shakil answered:
>
>>Is this meant to be a joke?  Do you really know Arabic?  The primary
>>meaning of the word "khatam" is "seal" as in to "seal a process" or
>>"close," i.e. "end."  If you would care to look through the Qur'an,
>>you will find this is consistent.  Finding some metaphorical uses of
>>the word in bizarre contexts where it means "ring" or "to show
>>greatness" is as ridiculous as interpreting "seal" to mean the literal
>>wax emblem used on letters in this context.  How come it didn't occur
>>to millions of Muslims for hundreds of years that "Khatamun-Nabiyyeen"
>>could mean some of the things you suggest?  There was no doubt in
>>*anyone's* mind what the Arabic word meant in this context.  Any
>>native speaker of Arabic will tell you the primary meaning of the
>>word, namely "last", "finish", or "complete."
>
>In support of Shakil's argument it may help to add that the correct
>word used in the Holy Quran is KHATIM unnabyin which means the complete
>and finish (i.e. no other naby after).  KHATAM (which means ring) is not 
>the word used, thus the KHATAM argument is false.  Therefore, prophet 
>Muhammad was the finish of the nabiyyin according to the Holy Quran and 
>there is no nabi after him.


	I invite every one to please go and READ this verse
	from HOLY QURAN again. The word is  KHATAM and not KHATIM
	as wrongfully suggested by Mr. Rami Hijazi. There is
	'zabr' over 'ta' and not 'zeir'. If Mr. Rami Hijazi still
	insists on his argument tell us which copy of the Holy
	Quram are you reading where it is "KHATIM".

	I will request every one to PLEASE FOR GOD'S SAKE
	do start ammending the HOLY QURAN to support your
	humanly arguments. It is a BIG SIN.
>
>Then Khaled wrote:
>> The question is: if Khatam in arabic has continually been used for greatness
>> rather than being at the end of a process, 
>
>See the above paragraph.
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>Rami Hijazi


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.fantasy
Keywords: fantasy RFD arts
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:47:13 GMT

Anything wrong with rec.arts.sf.written?

This was, after all, one of the issues discussed in last year's split of
sf-lovers. The "sf" does not stand for science fiction, but rather
speculative fiction, encompassing both science fiction and fantasy.

As was pointed out at the time, there is no good differentiation of
fantasy from science fiction. Or none that the entire readership
can agree on.

rec.arts.sf.written is a busy group, but not so busy as that. Most people
seem satisfied with it, and the high proportion of fantasy discussed
therein.

Forget the rec.arts.fantasy.
-- 
Stephen Graham
graham@cs.washington.edu	 uw-beaver!june!graham
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mek@guinan.psu.edu (Mark E. Kotanchek)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Organization: Penn State Center for Academic Computing
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:06:54 GMT

In article <BxxHBM.A0M@news.ucs.mun.ca> kforward@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Ken  
Forward) writes:
> gatenby%nmr@venus.ycc.yale.edu (Chris Gatenby) writes:
> > I definitely support the idea of a MATLAB news-group.
> 
> Ditto. I suspect there are several supporters here in our ocean physics
> group, as we use MATLAB extensively for time series analysis.
> 

It would seem that there is a pretty strong need for a news-group devoted  
to matlab and related software (matrixX, etc.) to support working efforts  
as opposed to the more theoretical issues generally addressed in  
sci.math.num-analysis. The question I have is whether comp.soft-sys.matlab  
is the right place for the newsgroup to reside since as an engineer I've  
never "channel-surfed" into comp.soft-sys and it never occurred to me that  
I should explore that domain. In fact, judging by the paucity of postings  
to the current categories (andrew, khoros, and nextstep) it would appear  
that comp.soft-sys is a well kept secret--especially considering the  
volume and vehemence of postings in the comp.sys.next groups!!

Therefore, I advocate that the new group be located as 

                      sci.math.matlab

rather than comp.soft-sys.matlab.

Mark.
--
Mark Kotanchek
Guidance & Control Dept - 363 ASB
Applied Research Lab/Penn State
P.O. Box 30
State College, PA 16804
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: David Hayes ... who else? :-) (mild flame)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 05:20:44 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Nov17.235948.17174@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>At least I made the Usenet Olympics...

No, Scott Forbes made the Usenet Olympics. You merely provided him with lots
and lots and lots and lots and lots and a veritable shitwad of material.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
           "Cat: Four legs and an attitude." -- Jim Reese
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Short comments, plus long rec.music.makers.* pre-vote discussion
Keywords: music, makers, synth, flame war, vote, rfd, cfv
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:02:41 GMT

nsw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Neil Weinstock) writes:
>>Yes. Just because you post one article (heard of KILL files? Bad news spools?)
>>doesn't mean everyone heard it.
>Second, in response to Dave, I dare say that my article was killed by a
>statistically insignificant number of kill files, perhaps even 0.  Feel free
>to offer evidence to the contrary.  As for bad news spools, that is possible,
>but pure speculation, and really stretching it.  Gimme a break.

I'm not inferring that YOUR ARTICLE was victim to these two examples. 
I *was* inferring the possibility thereof. Because it is possible, not
because it _happened_, I assert that one article is not enough of an
effort to be heard. 

>In other words, in absence to evidence to the contrary, I assert that my
>article was widely distributed and simply ignored by most folks.

This is a...(here we go again)...Straw Man. You cannot prove that your
article was widely distributed, and I cannot prove that it was not. 

>Now you are apparently escalating your requirements; it is becoming harder and
>harder to take this whole thread seriously (if it was ever easy).

*sigh*

Then don't. Just because I am finding more and more things wrong with this
result doesn't mean that my sentiment isn't serious. I don't like what
was (and is being) done. Period. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

                If you want to get rid of somebody, 
            just tell them something for their own good.
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: cs707ab@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Aftab)
Subject: voting from non-usenetters!
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:06:05 GMT

Please note that I am not participating in the usenet ('cause of my worklaod)
anymore, but I got this mail message from someone here at McMaster University...
I think it is very apporpriate to post this on the net since it has to do with
forming of a new newgroup. I won't be replying to any postings in this regard,
however, if someone really needs to flame on, do so thru e-mail.

I personally don't think that people who don't have access/don't even know
what USENET is, should be canvassed for votes! I think there are enough
zealous anti-ahmediya muslims on usenet that they don't need to seek votes
from outside to turn the new newsgroup down.

						Kamran  Aftab

-------------------------forwarded message follows -------------------------

Assalmu alaikum
this appeared on MSA-Net, it concerns the creation of a USENET
newsgroup related to ahmadiyya in which they want to use 
the name of Islam. Even if you don't really know what USENET is 
I would urge you to vote no .... do so as indicated below ...



The following article appeared on soc.religion.islam, this clarifies
that the earlier address to which we should send the votes was wrong,
the new address is

	 rana@ucsu.colorado.edu

to which you should send:

	I vote NO to soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya

if you are against that group or Yes if you are with its creation. The
basic problem with this group is that Islam is used to describe the
ahmadiyya religion. 

Note that as long as you receive this message, YOU CAN VOTE and please
do do because your vote really counts. 

If you had sent your vote to the previous address please do it again to
the new address as that vote will not count.

rached


----------------------------Monitored Article---------------------------


Subject: Ahmadiyya (Please vote NO)
Date: 14 Nov 1992 19:53:02 GMT

There is a voting process going on right now about whether or not to
create a subgroup of this group called soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya.
As I said before, using the word Islam by anyone who has no right to
it to pass himself/herself as a Muslim is unacceptable. Please vote NO
to the creation of the proposed group. You can vote by sending email
to the address

	 rana@ucsu.colorado.edu

with the sentence

	I vote NO to soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya

somewhere in the body of your letter.  You may want add the line


to your message header to get a confirmation of the receipt of your
letter and save the confirmation as a proof of your vote.

Please VOTE NOW!

The voting period expires December 3.

Wassalam,

/M. Saggaf
 alsaggaf@athena.mit.edu

============================================================
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Dave Hayes may be right (was Re: To keep the r.m.s rename...)
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:04:45 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Nov20.235514.18428@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>...and you appear to have a problem with reality.
>
>How judgemental of you.
>
>>Chip's statement was a statement of fact. Only in the case of providers of
>>paid Usenet services - a situation I don't believe Chip is in - do the admins
>>serve the users. In the case of most corporate news admins, the management of
>>the company is the only group the admin must serve.
>
>How assumptive of you.

Aren't you being just as (if not more so) judgemental and presumptive
with these snide judgements given in response to perfectly valid answers
given in good faith?

			-Richard Hartman
			hartman@uLogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I think.  I think I am.  Therefore ... I *am*!  (I think....)

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: About the elitism in news.groups
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:15:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.233007.16662@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>                  One only fights what one thinks is real.

There you go. Usenet isn't real in any sense that you can fight against.

To quote William Shattner: GET A LIFE.
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bcarh1ab.bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:05:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.184731.8504@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>
>And *again* I assert that it wasn't the fault of the unwillingly ignorant 
>that they didn't vote.

Dave, I often miss events or sales I'd be interested in, because I
didn't bother reading the paper the day they were announced, or skipped
over that section.  Would I be justified in complaining that I wasn't
given fair notice, that I should get a second chance?

"It's not my fault I missed the big sale.  Why didn't you put your ad
on the front page to make sure I wouldn't miss it?  Assuming people
will read the *whole* paper is elitism!"

>You're right in that I don't care. In fact, I *want* people to laugh at me.

Well, if you don't want people to take you seriously, you're doing a
great job.  But I thought all this was about the great injustice done to
the poor, oppressed, participants in r.m.s, not just an opportunity for
you to act like a clown.

Make up your mind - is this a serious issue, or a joke?

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.lang.basic
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:56:45 GMT
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Nov16.222148.68@dymaxion.ns.ca> bg@dymaxion.ns.ca writes:

[deletion]

>[...]  I haven't seen much on "alt.basic" and hope that legitimizing the
>group by giving it a place in the "comp." hierarchy will encourage its use.

I hate to tell you this, but there is no evidence to indicate that
forming a group will cause it to be used.  If there are oodles of
people discussing BASIC on the "wrong" group, then they (may) warrent
a new group.  But just starting comp.lang.basic and hoping some people
show up is a Bad Idea.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Xref: sparky news.groups:22348 alt.flame:14887
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.flame
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:20:18 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <1992Nov10.215646.20259@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
 >jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
 >>Sure. Any way we can accomplish what the expressed wishes of the net are - in
 >>this case, renaming the group - is OK with me.
 > 
 > The expressed wishes of the net is not to rename the group.

Gee, that's not what the vote said. Maybe you saw different numbers than
the rest of the world? 

 >>>It's not just me anymore. 
 >>...but it started out as just you...
 > 
 >So? Someone had to stand up to you folks.

Just what we need.... Alok, Left Coast version. 

-- 
 ...uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave -or-                       |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 frackit!dave@uunet.UU.NET -or- dave@frackit.uucp -or-   |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.solid-state.electronics
Originator: sehari@class1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:30:18 GMT

---
Well, we can not wast too much time on this; what about:

sci.electronics.micro-elec

This should do it. Frankly, who cares about the name?!

                     With highest regards,
                          Babak   Sehari.

--
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.fantasy
Date: 19 Nov 1992 23:42:57 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<Bxv4LD.1z6@apollo.hp.com>
	<1992Nov17.194835.24701@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: graham@cs.washington.edu's message of Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:48:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.194835.24701@beaver.cs.washington.edu> graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes:

   In article <Bxv4LD.1z6@apollo.hp.com> @apollo.HP.COM (Jennifer E. Levine) writes:
   >In article <1992Nov17.102155.14072@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
   >I have read your responses to this RFD. It is all well and good to
   >say "Last year we all decided to use SF to mean speculative fiction."
   >But, I don't think it is obvious. I think of that hierarcy as Science
   >Fiction. 
   >
   >There are people who like Fantasy and not Science fiction. They may
   >not realize they are welcome in rec.arts.sf.*

   But most people will read both. If the majority of the audience reads both
   or tolerates both, it's better to keep them together.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.  And repeat it.
And repeat it. ...  I don't think r.a.sf.tolkien was voted down
because it's fantasy.  Those who remember more accurately, correct me.
:-)

--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.fantasy
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:06:54 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <By4zHL.FB4@newcastle.ac.uk> Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt) writes:

>I'm not convinced by the argument that the dividing line is too
>hard to draw and would produce too many flames.  There are many
>groups that overlap and have fuzzy borderlines, and they survive.
>Why can't
>        a. clearcut fantasy threads be on r.a.f
>        b. clearcut sf threads be on r.a.sf.*
>        c. borderline threads be cross-posted
>?

For two reasons. 1) A large amount of this traffic would be type c). And
two groups of mostly crossposts should really be one single group in my
opinion. 2) Disagreements over the proper group for certain discussions
could cause lots of flames and waste all our time. rec.arts.sf.written is
a nice quiet group. Why break something that works?

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

		"I'm not perfect but I'm honest."
	        	- Paul Tsongas
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: CFV? What's a CFV??
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:48:17 GMT
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA

karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
>My point was that no structural changes to the newsgroup
>creation guidelines will eliminate the need for
>participants in the management of the newsgroup hierarchy
>to learn about USENET and pay attention to the issues.

Clearly the documentation could be clearer, and the guidelines
and procedures more spelled out. That, in itself, would help
a great deal. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

         It is the wise bird who builds his nest in a tree.
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Summary: homogenity vs hetrogenity ?
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:45:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.215924.27407@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> In article <1e8eppINNkvl@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>, ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
> |> 
> |> In article <1992Nov16.064310.27540@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> 
> |> > So, at some time in the future (a century or two perhaps), IF the Ahmadis 
> |> > outbreed the majority muslims now, then it stands to reason that you would 
> |> > no longer be a muslim if they did not wish to consider you a muslim !! 
> |> > Whatever happened to "Islam is between man and Allah (and no one in between)".
> |> 
> |> 
> |> Islam's holy book itself, the Qur'an.  I have quoted from it to show
> |> how sects are not allowed, and the minute one divides from the
> |> religion (i.e. what the Qur'an teaches), once ceases to be part of
> |> Islam.  Since Muslims believe in the Qur'an, that is how they look
> |> upon the situation.
> 
> But isn't it a fact that there already are too many sects (10+) 
> among muslims ? How do you address the issue of those sects ? 
> Who draws the lines between the degree of variations permitted
> in Islamic sects ? Just saying that "Quran says this..." does 
> not mean that something contradictory to Quran is not happening.
> Sects will continue to increase every decade -- an evolutionary
> phenomena I suppose. You may be able to slow down this process
> but never stop it.
> 
> Communism believed in homogenity. It failed miserably.
> Fundamentalists believe  in homogenity. They will too.
> 
Gopal Jee:

 I think you are right 100%. We better learn to live with 
people of differing religious beliefs, differing cultures and
backgrounds. USA is the first country to accept this paradigm.
I hope other countries will follow her footsteps. 

 All of us have been culturally trained to reject hetreogenity
but we must accept it since in the future, there would be no national
boundries, no language boundries and very little clear distinction
between races, ethinic groups, etc.

 Perhaps evolution has pushed us in the direction of tribalism. It
was necessary to survive. As the world became smaller, the tribes
intergrated. We must recognize that in future, there is only 
one tribe, the human tribe. We must learn to live with our differences.

 I enjoy mixing with with people of all races, national origins, religions
and find this experience very rewarding.   

regards,

-Naveed
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.netrek reorganization
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Alan D. Cabrera writes
> In article 2@cs.cmu.edu, hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
> >Alan D. Cabrera writes
> >> Where do I say that my idea is mainstream?  As I told you via 
> >> [..]
> >You didn't say that it was mainstream.
> 
> Thank you.  I'm tired of people conveniently leaving out contexts for
> their own benefit.  Let me quote you:


> In article 2@cs.cmu.edu, hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
> >
> > My recommendation is for alan to scrap the idea and to discuss 
> > possible future reorganizations on rec.games.netrek to see what the 
> > readers want out of rec.games.netrek, instead of assuming that his 
> > idea is the mainstream.

You never said your idea was mainstream (as I said in the first include).   
But in calling for discussion here, you thought that it was (as I said in  
the second quote).  What you say and what you think are two different  
things.

Rob
Newsgroups: news.groups