HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:42:53 +1100
From:         cat@COOMBS.ANU.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Vietnam Update - Social Science

THE LAW IN VIETNAM TODAY

>	Admittedly, I learnt their system not through books, or
>international academic conferences, seminars, or field trips. And I
>don't have doctoral credentials to show you. I learnt by living
>there, under their rule, government, management.  I learnt by observing
>the authorities in action. That was why I decided to quit. Period.
>
>	And I thank God that I could get out. Out of their system.
>
>	Regards,
>	H.H. Nguyen

Well, you need to re-visit Vietnam to catch up on present realities. The
University of Hanoi has a Law School and it is the most popular discipline.
All the negative things you said about Vietnam's legal system were and are
part - just part - of the present picture.The development of law is one of
the first steps in thelong march towards the creatin of civil society in
Vietnam. It may also be one of the first steps to end arbitrary and
dictatorial rule by a single party.

You should talk to members of the Vietnam Lawyers' Association. There is a
real heated debate about the rule of law...

It may interest you to know that a Vietnamese-American has been posted to
the Ministry of Justice as the UN's legal advisor.

I can't see how isolating Vietnam will help those who are trying to develop
the rule of law. On my various field trips many young persons trained in
law in the USSR are having to be re-educated in Western concepts. Is that a
bad thing? Several key persons I met are no longer in Hanoi but are
studying law at the University of Melbourne, the University of London and
Harvard Law School.

A long journey to reform begins by a single step. We may well come to
appreciate the efforts of academics, hand-on lawyers and others working in
this field. What is your alternative, to live in the past or only to
remember the past? In March 1990 Tran Xuan Bach was expelled from the
Politburo for advocating pluralism. He wasn't living inthepast, was he?

Carl




Carlyle A. Thayer
Associate Professor & Visiting Fellow
Dept. of Political and Social Change
Research School of Pacific Studies
The Australian National University
GPO Box 4
Canberra, ACT 2601 Australia

Phone: 0011 61 6 249 4453 office; 0011 61 6 251 1849 home
Fax 0011 61 6 257 1893 office; 0011 61 6 251 3749 home
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:50:02 EST
From:         "(CHON OOI)" <cyooi@MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Malaysian Students Association (fwd)

The following blather was spewed by cyooi:
From cyooi Tue Nov 10 11:43:36 1992
Subject: Malaysian Students Association
To: Seasia-l@mtu.bitnet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:43:36 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi Fellow Malaysians,

	My name is Chon Yean Ooi and I am the President of Malaysian Students
Association at Michigan Tech University. I would like to have contact with
all the Malaysians who are currently studying in United State. If you are in
charge of the association, please e-mail me and let me know your name and
address if not please forward this message to the person in charge. We would
 like to meet you too if you are not the one whom in charge. We would like to
 have a list of addresses of Malaysian Students Association, so that maybe
 sometime in the future we can have some activities together.
We can even have a get together party.


Malaysian Students Association / Michigan Tech University.

President : Chon Yean Ooi
V.President : Ying-Kit Kok

E-mail Address :   Internet : CYOOI@MTU.EDU
                   Bitnet   : CYOOI@MTUS5
                              MALAYSIA@MTUS5


Office Address : Malaysian Students Association
                 Rm 106. MUB.
                 1503, College Ave.
                 Michigan Tech University
                 Houghton, MI 49931.

Home Address :  Chon Yean Ooi
                509, W.Houghton Ave,
                Houghton, MI 49931.
                (906)482-7268


	I would like to meet all the Malaysian out there and if you have any question
 about our association, feel free to e-mail me. Thank you.



Sincerely

Chon Ooi
11/10/92


--
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Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:59:35 EST
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TH: Pramarn reaffirmed as Court Pres.

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:10:45+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>


THE Judicial Commission yesterday confirmed its decision to
appoint Pramarn Chansue as Supreme Court president, giving him its
unanimous support despite the veto by Justice Minister Suvit
Khunkitti.

The Judicial Commission also reconfirmed the appointment of Kiat
Jatnilphan as the Supreme Court vice president.

The other candidate for the Supreme Court presidency, Appeals
Court chief justice Thavorn Tantraporn, again boycotted the
commission meeting, claiming that since he was nominated as a
candidate, he had to leave the meeting as a matter of courtesy.

Without either Mr Thavorn or Mr Pramarn, who also left the meeting
when the commission was about to discuss the Supreme Court
presidency, all nine commission members, headed by former Supreme
Court president Banyat Suchiva, spent 30 miinutes reconsidering Mr
Pramarn's qualifications and his suitability for the top judicial
post. They finally voted in favour of Mr Pramarn.

The commission also voted unanimously in favour of Mr Kiat as
Supreme Court vice president over former justice permanent
secretary Prasert Boonsri.

The Judicial Commission also decided on a two-stage increase in
the salaries of 190 judges.

Commission secretary Supradit Hutasingh said the commission looked
carefully into the various aspects of the two candidates for the
Supreme Court presidency, including their work performance,
reputation and prestige, recognition by judges, personal history
and faith among judges.

He said commission chairman, Banyat Suchiva, would forward the
commission decision to Justice Minister Suvit so that Mr Pramarn's
appointment could be submitted to His Majesty the King for Royal
approval.

The commission's confirmation of Mr Pramarn as Supreme Court
president is final. It will take effect once Royal approval has
been given.

Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai said earlier he would seek Royal
approval for Mr Pramarn's appointment even though he might not
agree with the Judicial Commission decision.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:30:21 PST
From:         "(Coban Tun)" <tun@QUARK.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Burma: Canadian Oil Company Pulls out of Burma

RTw  11/05 0540  CANADIAN OIL COMPANY PULLS OUT OF BURMA
.
    BANGKOK, Nov 5, Reuter - The Canadian state oil company Petro-Canada has
said it is pulling out of Burma because exploration there proved
disappointing.
    In a statement received in Bangkok on Thursday, Petro-Canada said it had
informed its partners and the Rangoon government of its decision.
    "Our three-year exploration programme, including two wildcat wells, was
disappointing," it quoted chairman Bill Hopper as saying from Calgary.
    "We have now met the commitments of our exploration agreement and we do
not intend to exercise our option to renew."
    Petro-Canada signed a $28 million programme in November 1989. It holds
a 50 per cent interest, with Unocal holding 10 per cent, Unocal Canada 20 per
cent and Murphy Oil 20 per cent.
    The U.S. Company Amoco, the British companies Croft, Premier and Kirkland,
the Dutch Shell, Yukong from South Korea and Idemitsu from Japan are also
active in Burma, but industry sources say exploration for oil and gas is
yielding meagre results.
    Burma's government-in-exile welcomed the withdrawal and said it hoped all
foreign firms dealing with the country's military junta would do the same.
    "The 40 million people of Burma are being held hostage by a reprehensible
military clique that is supported by foreign investments," the National
Coalition Government of the Union of Burma said in a statement.
    The coalition was formed by dissident politicians and ethnic guerrillas in
December 1990 after the junta refused to honour the opposition victory in
elections in May. It is based in the jungle near the Thai border.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:04:07 -0600
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: US-Vietnam Normalization

    Thang writes...

> I agree with Carl's point.  Besides, changing the Viet nam goverment
> system, in the most part is the Vietnamese responsibility. If the
> people know more about the democracy the more they like to adapt it
> themselves.  The best way to seed the democracy is not through the
> embargo, I think.  Lifting the embargo and teaching the Vietnamese
> people what the real democracy is and how it works are ones of the
> best ways to win the communist war.
>                   thang

     Constructive engagement with oppressive regimes has been tried
countless times, with at best, mixed results.   Furthermore, the
United States has rarely made an effort to teach people in nations
it has business interests in about democracy.  Money, not freedom,
is the driving force behind those investing in Vietnam.  Keep in
mind that investors in a foriegn country have an interest in stable
government; in other words, they support the ststus-quo.  Major
changes bring uncertainty, something no businessman likes.  In other
words, if there are investments now, the interests of the investors
are at odds with those of the Vuetnemses people.
     You are right, it is the responsibility of the Vuetnamese people
to change the Hanoi regime.  We in the West should resist the temptation
to meddle and keep our hands off Vietnam.

                             Max
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X-VMS-To: IN%"SEASIA-L%MSU.BITNET@HKUVM1.HKU.HK"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:02:00 +0800
From:         "NAME 'R D HILL, GEOGRAPHY & GEOLOGY,
              UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG'" <RDHILL@HKUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: SURVEY FOR YOU

The SEASIA-LIST is rarely used for any kind of political discourse so
your attempt to survey users is somewhat misplaced. I  am not a US citizen
so could not have voted even if I had wanted to.
There is quite enough garbage on the system as is it is and I do no welcome
more by way of a misplaced survey. Apology?
R D HILL
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:18:18 -0600
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Black Hole of Hanoi

Black Hole of Hanoi

( F.E.E.R. Oct 15, 1992)
--------------------------

Members of a US military POW/MIA Joint Task Force seeking evidence that
American servicemen had been held after the end of the Vietnam War were stunned
when they were granted access to the section of Hanoi's Hoa Lo prison better
known as the "Hanoi Hilton".  US team members found 19.8 metre by 16.8 metre
room packed with approximately 2,000 inmates living in appalling conditions.
Several hundred women and about 80 older prisoners were seperated from the
majority of inmates, who were maily males in their 20s and described by the
Vietnamese authorities as common criminals.

------------
Ba(`ng La(ng
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:37:35 -0500
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: talks collapse as Khmer Rouge refuges to lay down arms

11/08

CAMBODIA TALKS COLLAPSE AS KHMER ROUGE REFUSES TO LAY DOWN ARMS

BEIJING (NOV. 8) DPA - Talks in Beijing aimed at breaking the deadlock in the
Cambodian peace process collapsed on Sunday as the Khmer Rouge faction refused
to lay down its arms.

Khmer Rouge leader Khieu Sampan said the reason for the refusal was the
continued presence of Vietnamese troops on Cambodian soil.

French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas said the faction's attitude was
''hostile'' and indicated that the impasse endangered the Cambodian peace
accords signed in Paris in October 1991.

He said the United Nations Security Council would have to take ''new measures''
that could include ''measures of constraint'' against the Khmer Rouge.

As co-chairmen of the Paris peace conference, Dumas and Indonesian Foreign
Minister Ali Alatas will report on the results of the Beijing talks to the
Security Council.

Alatas said the Security Council would have to make ''appropriate adjustments
to certain aspects of the Paris peace accord'' when it convenes on November 15
or 16 in New York because ''time is running out'' on the pact's implementation.
He did not elaborate.

''At this rather serious stage of development, the foremost thing that we ought
to ensure is that the situation in Cambodia does not lapse into renewed
fighting on a large scale,'' Alatas said.

With the collapse of the Beijing talks, Western diplomats said plans to hold
free elections in Cambodia in May will almost certainly have to be shelved.

The Khmer Rouge also rejected a new proposal to vote for a Cambodian president
parallel to the parliamentary balloting. Prince Norodom Sihanouk is currently
the de facto president as chairman of the country's Supreme National Council,
which is to be dissolved after the May vote.

After Sunday's meeting, Khieu Sampan said that holding elections at present
would be ''a sheer rubber stamp for Vietnamese occupation''.

He said that though the Khmer Rouge did not want war, ''the Vietnamese forces
and their puppets are preparing an attack against us'' and ''the victims have
the right of self-defence''.

In addition to their refusal to disarm, the Khmer Rouge, which imposed a regime
of terror on Cambodia in the late 1970s, has not allowed the United Nations to
inspect territory under its control.
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Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:32:41 EST
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:26:57 CST
From:         lev gonick f <lgonick6@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject:      NEW LIST: IPE-ISA-L - International Political Economy

IPE-ISA-L@mach1.wlu.ca     International Political Economy

   I am pleased to announce that a new listserv discussion group has
   been established to facilitate the business and interests of members
   of the IPE section of the ISA.

   IPE-ISA-L is an electronic discussion list that will allow persons
   around the world interested in International Political Economy to
   discuss matters of mutual concern.  IPE-ISA-L is an unmoderated and
   open list.  This means that all messages posted to the list will be
   automatically redistributed around the world.

   Possible topics for discussion on the list might include any of the
   following:

   1) IPE section business re: regional and national meetings.

   2) Substantive discussion over topics such as NAFTA, regional trading
   blocs, trade regimes, international debt, long cycles, historical
   world systems, EEC, currency and market crises, democracy and
   governance in Latin and South America, Africa and Asia, commodity
   negotiations.

   3) Comment and contributions on curriculum questions;  suggested
   texts, new articles of common interest for course-related adoption.

   4) Circulation of draft articles for comment and discussion.

   5) Personal exchanges in the effort to develop a greater sense of
   community among IPE section colleagues.

   To join IPE-ISA-L send the following message:

      Mail to: listserv@mach1.wlu.ca
      Sub IPE-ISA-L <your name>

   If you have any questions, please free to contact:

      Lev S. Gonick
      Department of Political Science
      Wilfrid Laurier University
      Waterloo, Ontario N2L 3C5
      CANADA
      Ph: 519 884-1970 ext. 2860
      Fax: 519 570-1419
      Internet: lgonick6@mach1.wlu.ca
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Organization: Vietnam Insight
Editor: Chan Tran
Address: PO Box 7826, San Jose, CA 95150, USA
Phone: (408) 226-2261
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:08:10 PST
Comments:     <Parser> W: FROM field duplicated. Last occurence was retained.
From:         "(Vietnam Insight)" <vinsight@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      VI: London's campaign for political prisoners ..

********
From New York to London:
Campaign for the release of political prisoners in Vietnam continues
***************

LONDON, UK, October 1-3: Nineteen Vietnamese from different walks of
life took part in a 48 hr. protest-fast and demonstration to demand for
the release of political prisoners and an end to Hanoi's oppression in
Vietnam.

The event, following a similar protest in front the United Nations in
New York last month, is part of a worldwide campaign to bring the issue
of human rights violations in Vietnam to international attention and to
pressure Hanoi for changes.

Participants of the event, coming from eight nearby countries,
distributed 5,000 leaflets and documents, including a list of 275
political prisoners currently held in Hanoi's prisons throughout
Vietnam. Additional information on the estimated 32,000 prisoners are
being compiled for later release. There have been tens of thousands of
signatures of support collected since the campaign began in July.

An Appeal on behalf of the Vietnamese political prisoners was given to
the government of the United Kingdom by a delegate headed by Dr. Tran
Duc, a NUFRONLIV member.

News of the event was later reported by local channels and newspaper,
and broadcasted to Vietnam on October 4 by the BBC with interviews of the
hunger strikers.

--
Vietnam Insight (vinsight@netcom.com)
Chan Tran, editor
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:14:18 -0500
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: US urges resolve in implementing peac plan in Cambodia

11/04

UNITED STATES URGES RESOLVE IN IMPLEMENTING PEACE PLAN IN CAMBODIA

UNITED NATIONS (NOV. 4) UPI - Calling the United Nations' peace plan in
Cambodia ''this great moral test,'' the United States called on the
international community Wednesday to support the entire peace process despite
grave difficulties.

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Edward Perkins, said the communist
Khmer Rouge faction has hardened its opposition to the full implementation of
the Paris agreements on Cambodia. But he said U.N.- organized general elections
must be held as scheduled in May 1993.

''The United States believes that the Khmer Rouge (must) be made to recognize
that it has nothing to gain and much to lose by continuing to obstruct the
peace process,'' Perkins said in an address to The Asia Society.

''History will judge us harshly if we fail this great moral test,'' he said.

''We know that the consequences of failure would be borne by the innocent
people of Cambodia, so we must resolve to ensure that the saboteurs of peace
would be the ones to suffer the most,'' he said.

The Khmer Rouge, the best armed among the four Cambodian factions, has refused
to take part in phase two of the Paris agreements, which dealt with disarmanent
and demobilization of the factions beginning on June 13.

Because of the Khmer Rouge's boycott of that crucial phase, the Phnom Penh
government on Tuesday suggested that the peace agreements be scrapped so the
three other factions can take up arms to fight the Khmer Rouge.

The U.N. Transitional Authority in Cambodia (UNTAC) has been able so far to
disarm and regroup 50,000 of the estimated 175,000 soldiers of the Phnom Penh
government and the factions of Prince Norodom Sihanouk and Son Sann. The Khmer
Rouge has barred UNTAC from areas under its control.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:07:38 +1100
From:         cat@COOMBS.ANU.EDU.AU
Subject:      Vietnam Update - Social Science

On November 6th the Division of Pacific and Asian History and the
Department of Political and Social Change, both of the Research School of
Pacific Stdies, The Australian National University hosted the third annual
Vietnam Update.

PROGRAM

8:45 am Opening
H.E. Nguyen Thanh Chau, Ambassador of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to
Australia

9-10:30 RECENT DEVELOPMENTS: SOCEITY, ECONOMY, POLITICS

Society
Dr. Suki Allen,medical health specialist with experience in Bac Thai
province

Economy
Dr. Adam Fforde, consulting economist

Politics
Recent Political Developments: Constitutional Change and Elections

Assoc. Prof. Carlyle A. Thayer, Australian National University (on
secondment from the Australian Defence Force Academy)

The 1991 Constitution and theRule of Law in Vietnam Today
Mrs. Ngo Ba Thanh, international comparative law consultant

204pm THE LAW IN VIETNAM TODAY
The Creatin of a Labour Market in Vietnam: Legal Framework and Practice
Dr Irene Norlund, Nordic Institute of Asian Studies

Legal Issues Relating to Investment in Vietnam - Land Law, Privatisation
and Taxation
Mr. Nguyen Qui Binh, International Law and Treaties Department, Ministry of
Foreign Affairs (recent post-graduate from Harvard)

Vietnam's Revised Constitution: Impact on foreign investment
Mr. Levien Do, Malleson Stephen Jacques (Australianlaw firm)

4:30-6pm THE LAW IN VIETNAM TODAY continued

The Developmentof CXommercial Legal Rights in Vietnam
John gillespie, Centre for Asian Business, Deakin University

Legal Practice Relating to Vietnam - Panel Discussion

David laidlaw,Maddock Lonie & Chisholm Law Firm
William Magennis, Phillips Fox Law Firm
Brian Weir, Freehill, Hollingdal & Page Law Firm
Dr Noel Fabri, BHP Petroleum

7:30 Dinner Address
H.E. Michael Potts, Australian Ambassador to the Socialist Republic of
Vietnam

Copies of papers given may be obtained bywriting tothe Secretary,
Department of Political and Social Change, Research School of Pacific
Studies, The Australian National University, Canberra, A.C.T.2601 Australia

PS Once again, I am left wondering how the polarized discussion of
US-Vietnamese normalization relates to the issues discussed at this
conference: the decline in public health due to the shift towards a market
economy; the success of the government in overcoming a trade imbalance,
controlling inflation; moves to privatize state enterprise; constitutional
and electoral reform efforts; legal legislation to ensure safe labor
practices; how to assess Vietnam's move toward the 'rule of law' and
practical legal problems encountered in Vietnam today byforeign
residents,including business firms.

Carl Thayer





Carlyle A. Thayer
Associate Professor & Visiting Fellow
Dept. of Political and Social Change
Research School of Pacific Studies
The Australian National University
GPO Box 4
Canberra, ACT 2601 Australia

Phone: 0011 61 6 249 4453 office; 0011 61 6 251 1849 home
Fax 0011 61 6 257 1893 office; 0011 61 6 251 3749 home
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