From: scottg@amiganet.chi.il.us (Scott Gittlitz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: STTNG vs. Dr. Who (was RE: Saturday Night Review)
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:15:28 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems


>>I guess I'm just disappointed that Next Gen failed so miserably at
>>something Doctor Who has done quite well several times over, and Trek
>>even had the episode-minutes to match this time, and still....
>>
>>Stay out of the past Next Gen...that's my advice to you.  Going by
>>Time's Arrow, I don't think you belong there.....

MARTIN PHIPPS replies and I get involve in this discussion:

>Let's get serious for a moment!  Dr. Who has been going for, what,
>twenty five years?  Are you saying you've never seen any really bad
>episodes of Dr. Who?  I remember seeing an old episode recently in
>which Dr. Who was facing aliens that looked like giant insects.  Boring.

Yes Doctor Who has had bad episodes every show does, but compared to Star
Trek and ST:TNG the ratio is quite low.  It is reasonable to say an 
average of 1 out 10 stories of DW is bad, compare that to TOS which of
all three seasons 4-6 stories were good (TOS stunk).  And what about TNG,
we saw in Season 2 only three worthy episodes which make 90% of the 
the stories below quality and don't forget last season where only 2 maybe
three stories where good.  TNG average ratio of bad stories is around
7 out 10.  Doctor Who proves to be the winner, 29 years of experience and
great writters.
 
>What about the way Dr. Who always had new companions to replace the ones
>that left.  How convenient!

Oh please, like you expect a same companion for all 29 years, it would
get repetative.  Even Star Trek replaces and brings in new characters. 
Weasly, Ro, Dr. Crusher <> Dr, Pulanski, and what about Checkov he's not
even an original member if you think about it.  By having new companions
you can do new things that couldn't be done with the previous companion.

>The Dialecks were good, but aren't the Dialecks supposed to enslave the
>Earth in the future?  So how come we see so many humans in the future 
>exploring space?  Come to think of it humans in the future or aliens in
>Earth's past are the two most overused plots on Dr. Who.  

I can see you don't know anything about the show, its DALEKS. They tried
to enslave the Earth, but the Doctor defeated them, therefore the DALEKS 
never succeeded in their plans.

Asking why humans in the future or aliens in the past is overused is the 
most stupid question anyboy can ask about DW.  Just like ST we take 
intrest of what our future might be like.  When the Doctor confronts a
alien in earth's past, we can expect it to be a spark that will lead
to actual event in our history (e.g. Great Plague in England, Loch Ness
Monster, HG Wells inspiration to write "Time Machine", etc . . .)

>Also, isn't it a bit of a coincidence the way he and the Master meet so
>often?  How come they can always agree on when was the last time they 
>met. Also, the writers make no attempt to decide on any one theory of 
>time be it elastic time (which Harlan "CotEoF" Ellisan likes) or 
>alternate time lines (which Chris Claremont likes). 

First of all when the Master was introduced in the 70's, he was trying
to take over earth and the Doctor was exiled there by the Time Lords.  So
you had Master stories one after the other.  Also the Master always hated
the Doctor and wanted to kill him, later stories had the Master again 
doing thing on Earth, a place the Doctor visits quite fequently and 
allows a greater chance of them meeting.

As for time theory, the writter of the show must follow the one set down
by the first Doctor "History of the Universe", past events effecting 
future events.  The Doctor only interfers when asked and to make sure
history does follow its course (e.g. not rescuing his companion Adric 
from death, because the events of his death was part of earth' own 
history).  Never have the writters gone off this time line, yes there is
confusion because he's in the future and the next he could be in past.
And only onece has there been an alternative universe, but it had nothing
to do with time travel it was by accident due to an explosion(not sure
how).

>How come Dr. Who seems to know the history for all planets in the 
>universe.  With all his time travels, you'd think he'd know a lot about
>his own future. Hell, he's even met himself a few times!  

The Doctor knows the history for majority of the planets, being his over
900 years old and visited them before.  Another reason is he is a Time
Lord and went to the Academy. See the Time Lords are a race that watchs
other races in the universe, but they don't use their power to help which
is the reason the Doctor left.

The Doctor knows how important it is not to know one's own future, its
one of the laws of time travel.  And when he is brought in contact with 
his previous selfs, by ou side interference,  they don't tell each other
about the their (The Doctor's) future. Plus the TARDIS can not land at a
time and location (approx near) of a past or future TARDIS, a built in 
defense.  Another note the TARDIS can go into the past and future except
for GALLIFRAYIAN history which is forbidden.

>Then there's the fact that the pseudoscience changes with every episode
>no consistency at all.

Consistency, now listen DW has never strayed off the path.  If something
happened in a past story it was carried into another.  The show always
followed the laws of time and science, something the Star Trek Universe 
has never done from day one.  When a story is written for DW it is 
checked and double checked to make sure it doesn't conflict with a 
previous story, plus sciene is not made up like in ST.  When you reach
warp 10 you+ship exsist at every point of the Universe, please this is
fictional Roddenberry said this to give a limit.  Also:
 
 -Warp scales and Stardates changed from TOS to TNG
 -Anti-matter CANNOT exsist in a matter universe which destroys their(ST)
  engines systems theories
 -Sela CONNOT repeat CANNOT be Tasha Yar's daughter - impossible.
 -O'Brian is both a Petty Officer and Lt.
 -How can Troi's father be named Ian in one episode and Alex in another
 -etc... (to many to list)

Star Trek Universe/Writters can't even created new races they steal them,
CYBERMEN <> BORGS.

People can argue for ages about ST and DW.  All I am trying to say is I
agree with person who wrote the message that started this that Star Trek 
should stay away from time travel, since they can never follow the laws 
of time and will mess thing up in the future.  Time travel should be left
to the experts Doctor Who.