From: maledvij@IASTATE.EDU (Marko A Ledvij)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: CULTURE, FINALLY!
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:28:18 GMT
Reply-To: maledvij@IASTATE.EDU (Marko A Ledvij)
Organization: Iowa State University



Hi everybody,

It is great to see postings about culture on SCY,
Davor Matic has recently had a posting about 
serbian-croatian-serbo-croatian name for language(s) spoken on 
the territories of former YU (I have accidently deleted the 
posting, so I am using my memory and I apologize for any possible 
inaccurate quotations). 

The question is whether Croatian and 
Serbian are different languages or not. My opinion is that it is a 
matter of DEFINITION. In other words, when can two languages be 
considered as different and when not? For example: If the 
definition says that two languages are different if the 
equivalents for 'shop' in these two languages differ (and if not, 
then they represent one language), then, 
if in Croatian it is said 'du\'can', and in Serbian 'prodavaona' 
(or rather: 'prodavnica'), Serbian and Croatian are certainly 
different languages. On the other hand, if the definition says 
that two languages differ if the equivalents for 'door' are 
different (and if not, then they represent one laguage), then, 
since in Croatian as well as in Serbian it is said 'vrata', the 
two languages, Serbian and Croatian, are the same. 

These two examples are, of course, arbitrary, and quite trivial.
I could have equally chosen examples from grammar, I could have
combined examples from grammar and vocabulary, etc.
I am not a linguist, but I guess that there is certain definition 
(or definitions) which among linguists are widely adopted (they 
are certainly much more complicated then the two examples given 
above). Also, if you pick at random 10 persons and ask them 
to define in what case two languages are different, and in what 
case not, you will probably get 10 different definitions.

Thus, here is MY OWN DEFINITION:
"Two languages, say C and S, are different if a person whose 
native language is C and who has never studied the language S nor 
has s/he ever heard anybody speak the language S, cannot without 
considerable problems understand another person speaking the 
language S."
I am a linguistic outsider, so that I base my definition on (for 
me) the most important aspect of language - that language is used 
for COMMUNICATION. In other words, if two persons can COMMUNICATE
(with no problems)
with everybody speaking her/his own language, the language is the same.
My definition, clearly, has several weak points. Probably the 
weakest point is the term 'considerable problems'. Not only that
it is not completely clear what problems are 'considerable' and
and what are not, but
even 'considerable problems' can be more or less 'considerable' 
depending on what persons S and C are talking about. If the 
conversation is trivial (for example, if the topic is 
'wheather'), the problems will be smaller than if the topic is 
Einstein's theory of relativity. Instead of trying to further 
elucidate my definition, I will try to give an example.

Let me take as the example the town of Pakrac, in Slavonia 
region. Before the war, to the best of my recollection, Pakrac 
had mixed population. I think that I am not making a big mistake 
when assuming that there were 50% Croats and 50% Serbs. The 
question is what language was spoken in Pakrac, having in mind 
the fact that Serbian and Croatian children did not attend 
separate schools, and that, as a precondition to get a job in 
Pakrac, it was not necessary to take a language test (eather 
Serbian or Croatian). I think that everybody who claims that
Serbian and Croatian are different/the same, ought to be able
to consistently answer the following 12 (it could of course be
another 112) questions:

1) In which language did a Serb in Pakrac address a shop-attendant
 without knowing her/his nationality?
2) In which language did a Serb in Pakrac address a shop-attendant  
knowing that her/his nationality was:
	a. Croat
	b. Serb?
3) In which language did a Croat in Pakrac address a shop-attendant without 
knowing her/his nationality?
4) In which language did a Croat in Pakrac address a shop-attendant  
knowing that her/his nationality was:
	a. Croat
	b. Serb?
5) If a Croat from Pakrac went to Belgrade, did s/he have to 
change her/his language and did s/he have any problems 
understanding Belgradians?
6) If a Serb from Pakrac went to Zagreb, did s/he have to 
change her/his language and did s/he have any problems 
understanding Zagrebians?

7) Who could a Croat from Pakrac understand with less problems: a 
fellow Croat from Split (coastal town in Dalmatia region) or a 
(fellow) Serb from Pakrac?
8) Who could a Serb from Pakrac understand with less problems: a 
fellow Serb from Vranje (a town in South Morava river valley) or a 
(fellow) Croat from Pakrac?
9) Who could a Croat from Pakrac understand with less problems: a 
fellow Croat from Zagreb or a 
(fellow) Serb from Zagreb?
10) Who could a Serb from Pakrac understand with less problems: a 
fellow Serb from Zagreb or a 
(fellow) Croat from Zagreb?
11) What was the name of the language spoken by the 6 year old 
daughter of a Serbian father and a Croatian mother, both from 
Pakrac?
12) When a Croat from Pakrac met a Serb from Stolac (a town in 
Hercegovina region with approximately 1/3 Muslims, 1/3 Serbs and 
1/3 Croats), what language did they use when talking to each 
other?

The only (IMO) way to consistently answer all
of the above questions is to assume that the Croatian and Serbian 
are ONE language.

ML