HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Thomas Wu)
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:30:40 GMT


underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
> Mr. Kemnitz is doing what basically many people
> who identify with Chinese culture like to do.  Namely, in reponse
> to the charge that Chinese society is inferior to the West, they
> reach back centuries ago to find some point in time at which 
> the Chinese did okay for that period of history.

Dwight isn't quite getting the point here, so I'll make it very
explicit.  "Accomplishments" (even defined as narrowly as Dwight
defines them) of societies may fluctuate over time, but "cultures"
(not government/economic/political circumstance) remain relatively
constant over time.  Therefore, any change in relative accomplishments
must indicate they have very little to do with culture.

This is analogous to a controlled experiment in science.  If you want
to explain a country's accomplishments, then you find a situation
where one country accomplished more than another.  Then, as a control,
you find a situation where this is not true.  Any causative
explanation must be due to some difference between the two situations.
Since cultures remain relatively constant, the difference in
achievements cannot be due to culture.

Here is Dwight Joe's reasoning.  Let q(t,c) be the average quality of
automobiles at time t for country c.  Then, q(1992,Japan) > q(t,US)
for all t.  Therefore, Japanese culture is superior to US culture,
which is one of the most vile and reprehensible cultures that ever
existed, the same culture that advocates killing millions each year
from handguns.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wo bu xihuan taoyan ren xie           O   O  | Don't buy from Chrysler;
wenzhang, xie de hao ben.               o    | especially don't buy from
                                      \___/  | Heritage Chrysler in
Copyright 1992.                              | Belmont, Massachusetts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Seattle area (was Re: Asian American communities)
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:09:15 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <10403@inews.intel.com> sedayao@chopin.intel.com writes:
>In article <upsi1.702938653@mcl>, upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee) writes:
>> My comment to the expense of living in the Bay Area, try moving north to
>> Seattle.  The housing is less expensive and, there is a large Asian 
>> community there.
>I sure the people of Seattle want to hear that. :-)  They really despise
>Californians in that area.

	Nahh.....we don't despise Californians. 

	We just use 'em for Uzi target practice.





-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Will America fall?
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:21:31 GMT
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

Dwight Joe clearly has an irrational preccupation with the "virulence" 
of Chinese culture that is pathological, but for amusement I'll play 
along with him a bit longer:

>> This is a ludicrous comparison.  Mr. Huang is comparing Japanese
>> gangs in Japan with Chinese gangs in the USA.  USA is not the
>> home turf of Chinese but is fast becoming one.  A fair comparison
>> would be between Chinese gangs in Hong Kong (and other unfortunate
>> strongholds of Chinese society) and Japanese gangs in Japan.

So you admit there are Japanese gangs. Does that mean Japanese 
culture is also "virulent" ?

>> Chinese gangs in the USA should be compared against other Asian
>> gangs in the USA.  The FBI report made no mention of either Korean
>> or Japanese gangs in the USA.  Why?  Could this have something
>> to do with the virulent Chinese culture?

If Chinese gangs in the USA proves the virulence of Chinese
culture, what do you make of Italian, Colombian, Black, and Puerto
Rican gangs in the US?  Are these also "virulent" cultures by your
book, or is gangsterism virulent only when it occurs among the Chinese?

>> As I've said before, the model minority concept might apply to
>> the Japanese-Americans and Korean-Americans, but it certainly doesn't
>> apply to Chinese-Americans.  A visit to Chinatown should convince
>> you.  (I've been told by a couple of Chinese to stay away from
>> Chinatown, a very unsafe place--"thanks" to Chinese culture.)

"I've been told..." Cute, but I'm willing to bet you are a frustrated 
Chinese American blaming Chinese culture for your overdemanding 
parents and unhappy childhood.

Joe Huang
From: mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian American amateur athletes
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:24:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Apr9.063409.13725@cheshire.oxy.edu> ac@cheshire.oxy.edu (Aileen Cho) writes:



>Hello,                          
>   It's taken me this long to figure out this damnable new system, and
>how to post...sorry if it looks weird.

	No problem... :)

>   Just wanted to comment on some thread which I remember but hadn't
>saved (still lame at this all), about being Asian and athletic. Somebody,
>Jeff Sedayao (sp?) mentioned being a runner...I'm a runner, too, and
>all throughout high school it was never a big deal...well, not at _my_
>high school...but then I went to college and joined the cross country 
>team, and dude...lost among a crowd of long-legged, slender-built Cauca-
>sians. All of a sudden I felt really, really silly. Not to stereotype,
>but there are plenty of fast Caucasians, Latinos and African Americans
>but markedly less Asians...at least in my limited range of experience.

	Yeah... I know the feeling. However, think about it this way.
You're still on a team. There are many Asians that don't persude athletics
in college. (Like me for example) I wish I did. :(  The most I have time
for is joining the school's club. Ahhhh... I miss Gymnastics competitions.:(

>   And when I went to Sole, I mean, Seoul--well, good lord. I went for
>a couple of runs in the blasted humidity, and never have I gotten so
>many mean, disapproving and/or astonished looks from the locals. This
>man came up to me and started yelling and gesturing at the river where
>I was running by. Armed with my one Korean phrase that basicaly says I
>can't speak Korean, I yelled it out as best I could, so he gave up. But
>dang, no wonder these days I run alone. High school cross-country was
>paradise lost.
>                                     oh well,
>                                          ac

	Aaarrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! I REALLY MISS GYMNASTICS!!! 
For me, High School Gymnastics was PARADISE.... Too Bad... :(

							Mikeey
					    mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

Advice for today : Never make fun of anyone on the Crew team. They have a
                   tendency to hurl large objects at you. (eg television)
		   This often results in bodily harm. (Oouuuccchhhh!!!!!!)

						
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin)
Subject: Re: Asian American amateur athletes
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 00:53:28 GMT

In <1992Apr9.214714.29072@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:

>In article <1992Apr9.182436.29409@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin) writes:
>>Advice for today : Never make fun of anyone on the Crew team. They have a
>>                   tendency to hurl large objects at you. (eg television)
>>		   This often results in bodily harm. (Oouuuccchhhh!!!!!!)

>I'd make fun of them before I'd make fun of someone on an archery, or riflery
>team :-)

	True. However, we don't have an archery or rifle team here in
the University of rochester. The guys in the Crew team are monsters.
(From the perspective of a 5'5" Asian Gymnast, of course)

						Mikeey
				   mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

PS Any fellow Gymnast out there?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: re Up and Coming Oriental-American Comedian
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:49:09 GMT

In article <kuos8pINN93m@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I'm a Stairmasters Junkie) writes:
>
>	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
>	> Margaret Cho, a Korean-American, appeared on the Dennis Miller show.
>	> She's the first Korean-American comedian who was actually funny.
>
>Then you haven't seen Henry Cho, a Korean-American raised in Tennessee.
>
>	Melinda

I apologize.  I guess that I did make an error here.

I meant to say that "She's the first Oriental-American comedian who was 
actually funny."  In any event, they are probably both funnier than
the moron who appeared in "Father of the Bride."  That moron was not
funny at all.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: SF & LA (was: Mine's already gone(was: Law of Diminishing Returns))
Keywords: LA, SF
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 23:58:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


In article <rdn91INNhvm@agate.berkeley.edu> mafu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mark Fujimoto) writes:
>
>>I guess it depends on how much you are willing to compromise (assimilate).
>>Different places will probably take different amount of assimilation in
>>order for you to fit in.  I would say San Francisco is the least 
>>discrimatory places in this world.  It doesn't matter whether you are
>>very Asian or Americanized, you can still fit in there.
>
>As long as you're not from LA and/or own any Lakers/Dodgers/Rams/RAIDERS
>sportswear...%^).  
>

Well, the Raiders are still popular here among die hard Raider fans.  After
all, the LA Raiders are really the Oakland Raiders in diguise (8-)).

Gary

Ps.

When I was going to UCSD, I noticed that people there really didn't like
the Bay Area teams.  Most LA Dodger fans hate the SF Giants and the Oakland
A's.  Some did't like the Bay Area in general.  I, being from the Bay Area,
noticed this attitude and after a while my LA friends and friends from the
Bay Area had an argument about the best place to live in California.  Anyways,
this type of arguments are very opinionated so I hate getting into these
types of arguments.  I personally know where the place to live is (I have
lived in Northern and Southern Cal; born in Southern Cal, raised in Northern
Cal, and went to college in Northern cal, and am back in Northern Cal).

-- 
|^^^^^^|            _Yo_Man_____________________________
|      |          /            garyh@sco.com             \
|  _  _|        /             uunet!sco!garyh              \
| (o)(o)      /             425  Encinal Street              \
@      _)   /          Santa Cruz, California  95061          |
 | ,___|   /   W: [408] 457-0195 x7765 / Fax: [408] 429-1887 /
 |   /     \_______________________________________________/
/____\            The Santa Cruz Operation (SCO), Inc.
From: stewartk@garnet.berkeley.edu (Stewart J. Kong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: English Only Movement
Summary: Racist Policy
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:13:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sacleINNskp
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: stewartk@garnet.berkeley.edu

I'm interested in what Asians think of the English Only Movement.  My

feeling is that the real reason for this movement is economic.  The founding

fathers of America intentionally chose NOT to have a national language so    

that 200 years later, this movement becomes a dispute.  What I'm saying is 

that I think it's motivated by the legislature , not for nationalistic reasons,

but to eliminate non-English or limited English speaking people from entering

the work force.  In this sense, because this mostly affects immigrants of 

color, it is a racist policy.  Do you disagree or what?




Stewart Junghwan Kong  stewartk@garnet.berkeley.edu
Information Systems & Technology
U.C. Berkeley
From: janew@woobaby.EBay.Sun.COM (Jane Woo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:52:47 GMT
Reply-To: janew@woobaby.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: woobaby.ebay.sun.com

In article 13363@leland.Stanford.EDU, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> In article <TDWU.92Apr14233040@faust.mit.edu> tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu
  [stuff deleted for brevity...]
> certainly doesn't make Chinese society superior.  On the contrary,
> it just goes to show how savage Chinese culture really is.  There
> are, in fact, some Chinese who point to Chinese weapons development
> as a source of technological "triumph".  If that isn't barbaric, what is?

Ah.... does this mean that the rules are changing again?  Does this 
statement infer that "those who point to their weapons development as
as a source of technological 'triump'..... are barbaric"??

If that is the case.... you can bet that you can throw in a said Western
country that spends over $3 billion for defense when it is not "at war"
with any other country.  And, at the same time, said Western country has
millions of homeless people and welfare program that doesn't seem to
work.  

What's the deal?

-jane
From: oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why is stereotyping bad? (Re: 'Asian Nerd' Stereotype)
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:10:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <22564@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.224710.29684@en.ecn.purdue.edu> oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro) writes:
>>You must believe this yourself in order to say, "In case you're not sure that
>>these exist".
>Um, no, I'm quite sure.  I've seen such stereotypes in movies, TV, and
>such far too often, and far too lately.  While we're at it, let's
>talk about the white-teen-male stereotype that we see every single
>day on television.  Now that is an anti-white-teen-male stereotype
>if I've ever seen one.

Well, now you're getting back to stereotypes of a subgroup of whites.  I was
talking about stereotypes which are applied to an entire race.  Let me try 
to explain the difference.

Let's take a look at a white teenager who has a preference for long hair
and Ozzy Osborne t-shirts.  What comes into your mind when you see this person?
Anti-social, suicidal, satan-worshipping, drug-using?  Nevertheless, this
stereotype can be "cured" with a three piece suit and a haircut.  The 
stereotype is NOT applied to all whites.   

Now, in MY case, no matter how I am dressed or groomed I will still be:
Complimented on my accentless English
Asked if I know karatE
Asked how long I've been in this country 
Asked "What are you?"
Called "Charlie", "gook", "Jap"
etc.,etc.

>>(about asian stereotypes)
>>Stereotypes which are more pervasive in our society.
>Sorry, I don't agree.  Then, asian stereotypes gore your ox,
>and white stereotypes mine.  Still, can't we both reserve the
>right to dislike both?

It's no problem for me to dislike all kinds of stereotypes.  But, I stand by my
statement that stereotypes about whites are less pervasive than stereotypes of
other groups.

Show me a stereotypical white in the media and I will point out tons of counter-
examples.  There is no STRONG TREND of portraying whites in some particular 
fashion.  Look at Dances with Wolves.  Most of the whites in the movie were
portrayed as evil despoilers of the land, except for the HEROIC white male 
STAR of the movie, except for the white female love interest, except for the 
enlightened white male military commander.  Dances with Wolves is an extreme
example for its treatment of whites.  Yet, it still managed to make heroes out
of the white leads.  The portrayal of whites in the mainstream media is nowhere
near as lopsided as the portrayal of Asians.

-- 


						Woody Oshiro
						oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu
From: sedayao@sousa.intel.com (Jeff Sedayao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Seattle area (was Re: Asian American communities)
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:56:06 GMT
Reply-To: sedayao@chopin.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <upsi1.702938653@mcl>, upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> My comment to the expense of living in the Bay Area, try moving north to
> Seattle.  The housing is less expensive and, there is a large Asian 
> community there.

I sure the people of Seattle want to hear that. :-)  They really despise
Californians in that area.  That's probably why that other poster felt
discriminated against in Seattle - they probably thought that he was
from California!  I remember checking into a Hyatt Regency in Bellevue
(across the lake from Seattle) on a business trip.  The clerk helping the
guy next to me ask him where he was from.  When he said he was from the
Bay Area, she immediately (and hostily) asked him if he was moving there. 
He said "no" and then she said, "well then that's ok."  I felt REALLY welcome. 

> --
> Mathew Wayne Yee
> upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
> "This life is a test - it is only a test.  If this had been an actual life,
>  you would have been told where to go and what to do!"

-- 
Jeff Sedayao
Intel Corporation
sedayao@chopin.intel.com
..!uunet!intelhf!chopin!sedayao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Asian-American Filmmakers (was Asians in Movies)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:11:35 GMT

In article <YAMAUCHI.92Apr6174114@heron.cs.rochester.edu> yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.041534.7119@athena.mit.edu>, ktko@athena.mit.edu (Kwanghyon T Ko) writes:
>
>>One solution is to have more AA film directors and screen-
>>writers.  Only then can we have intelligent roles.
>
>Are there *any* Asian-Americans directing or writing feature films today?
>
>The only well-known Asian (not American) director I can think of is
>Kurosawa. 

Just another thought: Kurosawa now gets most of his financing from the US.
The Japanese studios won't have much to do with him as he "doesn't fit into
the system".

Mike 
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop because It's There)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: re Why is stereotyping bad? (Re: 'Asian Nerd' Stereotype)
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:14:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


			I wrote: 
			> Here's another one: Chinese food to whites consist 
			> of only three dishes - sweet and sour pork, pork 
			> fried rice, and lemon chicken. 

		oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro) :
		> Waitress!  An order of egg rolls with that.

	gt6281b@prism.gatech.EDU (John Hicks) :
	> I'm not too sure that egg rolls are American.  In fact, I don't 
	> think they are at all.  In China and Taiwan they're called spring 
	> rolls and they're made of a different wrapping than the ones you 	  	> find in most restaurants.  I always grew up eating spring rolls, 
	> I never could figure out why people called them egg rolls.  
	> There's not even eggs in them!

Ummm, John, you missed the point. We were talking about stereotypes of
white people. I was talking about the limited number of Chinese dishes
that white people seem to order thinking that they're really experiencing
Chinese cuisine.

I love spring rolls too. In fact, the best spring rolls I've ever tasted
was at a Thai restaurant, their spring rolls were filled with bean thread
noodles and came with a delicious dipping sauce. Unfortunately, the
restaurant is now out of business. :^(  :^(  :^(

	Melinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Keywords: predestination
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 21:35:37 GMT

In article <kum5jfINN5qa@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop because It's There) writes:
>
>
>	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
>	> Mr. Kemnitz is doing what basically many people
>	> who identify with Chinese culture like to do.  Namely, in reponse
>	> to the charge that Chinese society is inferior to the West, they
>	> reach back centuries ago to find some point in time at which 
>	> the Chinese did okay for that period of history.
>
>Which is also what you are doing, you refuse to accept China's accomplishments
>yet you only focus on a certain period of Western history without also
>focusing on their less than stellar accomplishments at other points in time.
>
>As always, you change the rules of the game so that you appear the winner.
>
>	Melinda

Ms. Cheung is wrong again.

The appropriate comparison, as I've said before, is among the current
state of the various societies.  However, Chinese like Ms. Cheung like
to reach back 3000 years (or some such nonsense) in order to point out,
"See!  There wasn't even a USA back then.  Hence, Chinese society was far
more advanced."

To that, I must say the following.  The USA and Western Europe are
more prosperous and well off than at any point in Chinese history.
The same goes for Japan and S. Korea.  What seems to be the matter with
Chinese society?

The Chinese culture destroyed the hopes and dreams of generations of
Chinese--of an entire nation.  It's the same culture where infanticide
is condoned--past and present.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american