HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phatch@solstice.slc.mentorg.com (Phill Hatch (CONTRACTOR Documentation))
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.,  Murray, Utah
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:16:04 GMT

In article <752@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> 
> 	Maybe because most people looked at the rule that says "helms
> shut off psis" and realized how ridiculous that rule is, and jettisoned
> the rule. 
> 
> 	When I encounter a rule that's obviously there for no reason other
> than to promote that semi-mythical beast Game Balance, I throw it out
> right away. If I'm going to imprison a psionicist, it will be using a
> logical method that works according to the operating physics and paraphysics
> of psi, tech, and magic. That helmet rule can't be justified well at all;
> and any justifications for it have logical ramifications which are 
> never considered. For example, if ANY helm can do this, then surrounding
> the psi with the same material as any helm should shut off his powers;
> put him in a leather tent and he's powerless. "No", you say, "it only
> works because it's on his head." Oh? So, if the helm is magically 
> levitated off his head by a thousandth of a micron, he can use his powers?
> Cool, I'll have my psi train with his TK until he can keep the helm
> JUST off his head...  Oh, that's too close? How far away does it have to
> be? How MUCH of the head has to be covered? Can I wear a helm made of
> bands of leather and steel that are like crosshatching, with open
> spaces?

As a counterpoint, I CAN NOT wear hats.  They give me phenomenal headaches.
Ski hats usually do.  Ear Bands occasionally, bandanas never.  But I can 
wear headphones without problem.  Perhaps I am just phobic, or perhaps there
is something that could be extrapolated to a game world.  I can see where a 
minimal distance from a material COULD work.  You could base it on "personal
space", usually about two to three feet from a person. When surrounded by 
a network that invades this space, perhaps a psion's functions are limited
or nonexistent.

Sea Wasp's argument about materials and percent covered still holds, but 
there are logical workarounds.  It depends on the world design and what 
makes sense there.  But I don't think I could mentally focus very well with
a helmet on, especially if it had been there a couple of hours.  But after I
got really used to it....maybe?

But, Sea Wasp, while your option is workable, I think other arguments can hold
water without resort to game balance tenets.

Phil
From: mccall@Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:19:07 GMT
Reply-To: mccall@oswego.Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

In article <78203@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>In article <2521@cix.cict.fr> maillet@tls-cs.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) writes:
>
>>  I'd say that I've encountered both T$R-like ( rather small, and long-lived )
>>and Tolkien-like ( rather tall, and immortal ) elves side by side in the same
>>AD&D adventures. They were different, but they were still elves. They never
>>discussed such strange topics as old age and death. That didn't affect their
>>present state. So, once again, who cares ?
>
>Well, sorry, but I couldn't disagree more.  When you have things like age
>affecting ability scores, whether or not they die of old age does matter.
>Why would an elf lose points of Dex, Str, and Con if his body isn't "dying"?
>
>Not to mention the fact that wishes suddenly become no problem.  "Oh, I
>age five years every time I cast one?  So what?  Didn't you know?  I'm
>IMMORTAL."
>
>Age limits *are* important.
>
 Not in ADND(1 or 2), since most elves can't get to a high enough level to 
 cast Wish (because of the IMHO indefensible level limits). So, the age 
 needed to keep elves from abusing Wish argument doesnt really work. Besides
 elves in ADND live about 1500 years or so, which is about 15 times a human 
 life span which means 5 years aging for a human has equivalent effect of 
 about 4 months on an elf,so 5 years matters little to an elf, even if they
 arent immortal.(Which BTW, I think they should, being a fan of JRRT, and
 never having seen the logic behind T$R's attempt to create a 'humanocentric'
 universe (to use T$R's own term), very few players I've know, 'want' to
 play humans, because they play humans all day long as it were.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|D.Todd McCall                  \  The best laid plans of mice and men       |
|---mccall@oswego.oswego.edu    \                                            |
|                               \                                            |
|State University of New York   \  are worth about the same                  |
|                               \                                            |
|College at Oswego		\  in the final analysis       		     |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:06:11 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?


mdrijsma@cs.ruu.nl (Michael Rijsman) writes:
> a small oportunity to escape, so I don't want him to be unconsious all the
> time. This psionicist is 6th lv and has(among others) the powers:Ectoplasmic
> Form, Dimensional Door.
Too late.  You let him get past first level, give up.  Once the
psionicist gets a form of teleportation (admitedly Dimension door is
only a minor one, he is almost impossible to catch.  If he had
probability travel it would be *much* more difficult to capture him.
Just think of all the difficulties you're having, and then consider
these are only devotions.  If he had teleportation or probability
travel...  

>  Last time, when the party was attacked by Jozhal, I
> let one of the Jozhal imprison the psionicist with the power Banishment, but
> you can't keep that up to long.
> So how do you(as DM) imprison your psionicists ?
My DM's imprison Psionicists by not allowing them for game balance.
But you may want to try incapacitating spells (color spray, etc.), or
if you use the death's door rule, and the opponents are striking to
capture (not kill) get him to negative HP and then administer a knock
out potion daily.  But this is rather inconvenient, and once he wakes
up he's gone.  The other method is to charm the psionicist and
convince him he shouldn't teleport away (this is more difficult than
it sounds...).  It's tough to capture someone who has teleportation
abilities at low level that can't be interupted.  Spells to
incapacitate him are a good start, but barring magical prevention of
psionics the only method is to keep him unconscious.  

Of course, you could have the people who captured him force him to
perform "hard physical exertion" so he regains no PSPs.  But then, he's
going to sleep sometime, unless you can find away around that too...

	joe
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ernar@dit.upm.es (Jorge F. Delgado Mendoza)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: UUES, Asociacion de Usuarios de UNIX, Spain
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:44:24 GMT

Well i couldn't agree more with seawasp in the 'supposedly upset balance' 
of the mages wearing armor. 
First of all, the reasoning for that rule is worth .0003$ but most of all
it is the same:
	In high level campaigns (or muchkins at lower levels) 
	magic users get those flamant bracers ac6 or ac5 (even ac4)
	and a cloak +1 and a ring +1, note that with bracers u usually
	get better ac than with plate mail if both of them are in the
	same range of magic pluses  

		Bracers ac5 ring +1 cloak+1   ac 3
		Plate mail +1 & shield        ac 1

	and the mage has the advantage of having his ac even if he
	wakes hurriedly in the middle of the night

	In low level ones (1-5) the thac0's of the monsters suck
	so much that the mage with a shield spell can be rarely hit
	not to mention the 2nd ed Armor spell :) and also a fighter
	doesnt get 'plate armor' at those levels (but then in my world
	the standard heavy armor is chain mail, and a trip of 3-4 days
	on horseback in plate armor will leave the character either
	extenuated, or will hinder movement of the party by 50%...
	also only important cities and places have the skill to do
	plate armor)

  Also and most important is that the players that usually play mages
DON'T like their mages stuffed in plate mail, they usually wear either 
light armors or none, so there's too that psychological bit to that


 To end all this i just notice that the helmet rule is cr*p, not only
because the rule is quite silly, but because (and i do this with all the
HB's ) if i find a character too powerful either i don't let the
class be, or i cut it ..... :)

 Anyway I havent had those many psions in my campaigns but then I am
having this same argument with a guy in my campaign that bought
himself the PsionHB and wants to play one... i just told him OK, with
one or two restrictions (a psion can detect power but definitely NOT level
of a victim) and that if the thing gets too powerful i will either
remove the class and let him choose another, or , more likely
change a bit the class 
  i.e.  the psion is a 'mage' so i could make him throw d4's allow
less weapons and make the table of xp harder :)

(I must note that i am one of THOSE masters that play AD&D1sted because
thinks its better balanced, funnyer and less ..... restricted...
[i dont use the silly UA double spec] :)

just my words ;)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ernar@sanson.dit.upm.es |   And they placed in his hands a sword made from  |
| Jorge Fernando Delgado. |  cold vengeance, forged in Brimstone and templed  |
| Madrid Telecom, Spain.  |  with the woeful tears of the other damned......  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: griffin@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Crystal Griffin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:42:30 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Dec17.154143.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
>	If you place a psionicist in a room made of lead walls, he is
>neutralized (he'll have his PSPs, he'll feel himself utilizing powers, but they
>have no affect.  Actually, this'd be a great roleplaying action).
>
>	Help me out, people, if you know what I'm talking about.
>

Howdy-

ZT here.

Um, just as a little offshoot of this, my DM rules that 'going ghosty',
  ie 'Ectoplasmic Form', is basically an ethereal form, so he uses the
  same rules as pertain to ethereals.  Such as, not being able to go
  through a wall covered by ivy, not going through lead... I can't 
  help you about the lead walls thing, though.

Just for my Record.

                       The Crystal Griffin
From: dant@cs.utexas.edu (Dan Alexander Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Paladins, Clerics, and Horus
Date: 11 Dec 1992 14:57:34 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: latexo.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: What gives?
Keywords: abracadabra shanana ripsnorter

All this talk about priests and paladins has me wondering:  In TOM, in the
section on Horus (Egyptian mythos), it says that priests of Horus are actually
paladins with some special abilities--most notably that they cast spells like
priests instead of paladins.

My question is, should I treat such characters as priests, paladins, or dual-
classed priest/paladins?  I'm willing to waive the non-human dual-class 
restriction for this one god (there is precedent in the Egyptian mythos for
that--see Isis), but is that the right thing to do?

I'm talking in terms of XP, THAC0, saves, etc.--most of the special abilities
are spelled out in TOM.

Any ideas?



--Big Dan

-- 
+--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
| dant@cs.utexas.edu | The opinions expressed are yours, so get used to them |
+--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com (Joe Carl Jr.)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: Harris Corporation - ISD
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:06:02 GMT

In <mbecke69.724349306@ursa> mbecke69@ursa.calvin.edu (Mark Becker) writes:

>mdrijsma@cs.ruu.nl (Michael Rijsman) writes:

>I haven't actually DMed anything with Psionicists in it, but you might try
>Cerebral Parisites (you know, those things that make it more expensive to use
>Psi powers!)  Just have the captors keep a jar of those things around, and
>douse the Psionicist when they catch  him, and hopefully he'll get so many,
>he won't be able to use any powers within an hour's time!

Keep a jar around  HaHaHaHa, thats a good one.
Cerebral parasite are so small you can't see them.  They are attracted to
Psionic activity.  You need psionic activity to keep them.  For every
consecutive day they don't feed there is a cumulitive 1% chance they leave
for bette feeding grounds.  Which resets to 0% once they feed.

I believe they travel through astral space so you can't keep them in a jar.
You need a host!

Sorry no Flame intended, I just thought it was funny!
--
Joe Carl Jr.               "It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a
jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com   fool, but what he does know that ain't so."
                                                           -- Josh Billings
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com (Joe Carl Jr.)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: Harris Corporation - ISD
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:27:09 GMT

In <1992Dec11.222022.2965@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.140432.5090@cs.ruu.nl> mdrijsma@cs.ruu.nl (Michael Rijsman) writes:
>>[...]  So how do you(as DM) imprison your psionicists ?

The Spell Sepia Snake Sigil is great for keeping prisoners.

Force them to read something with the spell cast on it.  Tell them if they
don't submit to the spell then they will be killed.  The spell puts them
into a suspended animation, which can be canceled with a simple dispel magic.


--
Joe Carl Jr.               "It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a
jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com   fool, but what he does know that ain't so."
                                                           -- Josh Billings
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: brehob@plantain.cps.msu.edu (Mark W Brehob)
Subject: Dwaven Bards (and 1/2ling too!)
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 02:24:14 GMT

What are people's feelings on the Dwarven Bard's ability to shrug off  
spells?
Is this too powerful?
Is it about equivelent to casting spells?

When does the ability come into play?
Does the bard have to "Hum a counter tune?"
Make a spell lore role to recognize it?
??????

Also, on the Compleat books:
I felt that the books are for the most part reasonable.  Most of the kits 
have enough of a disadvantage that they arn't all that great.  I feel 
that they do a nice job of balancing out multi-class advantages.
I would NOT allow a kit for a multiclass.  No even for dwarves or bards.
Multi-class is enough of a kit.
I feel that with a few execptions the bard kits are OK.
The acrobat type kit is out of wack.  I feel that the blade is fine.  I
could see the multiclass bards getting out of hand. (I don't consider the
bard ones to be kits.....)

Question, any clues on why a 1/2ling can't be a Druid?

Please respond here if you want, but also to me
brehob@cps.msu.edu
Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: D&D BASIC and Other Programs Wanted
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:42:27 GMT

     I am considering the purchase of a laptop computer.  Among
other things, this could make GMing D&D easier just by having it
there.
     My little brothers have created a BASIC program for rolling
up magic swords, which should come in quite handy.  I was
wondering if anyone out there had done other BASIC programs,
specifically for IBM Basic/QuickBasic, for things such as rolling
up characters and NPCs, random monster encounters, et cetera.
     If you've written programs like this, could you please post
them, in the uncompiled text format (NOT Uuencoded) to this
group, with the words BASIC PROGRAM in their header?  I'm sure
that others besides myself might have a use for them...
 
     Additionally, are there any more advanced programs, written
in pascal, C, etc, for such things as those described above?  If
so, could you please post FTP sites?  I'm really interested in
this type of thing.  Thanks!

--
Chris Meadows  | Editor of Robotech: The Misfold; author of other               
CHM173S@SMSVMA | Robotech/Rifts stories; DEFENDER of PALLADIUM BOOKS!!!         
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | NOTE: I will be on vacation 12/17 to 1/10; if          
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | important, please email; posts tend to expire.         
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: kurgan@spock.uucp (Andrew Twyman)
Subject: Re: Stone Shape
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:44:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec8.193801.23781@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
>Wel met,
>
>  I'm having a bit of a discussion (argument) with the players I DM.  They like
>to use the 3rd level Priest spell "Stone Shape" to drill through stone.  I allowed
>them to do this for a while, but then I decide that this was not the intent of the
>spell and that they can only alter a "piece" of stone that is within the priests
>capabilites (3' cube + 1' cube / level), thus they can't "drill" through a stone
>wall because the wall is much bigger.
>
>What do you think?  Fair or unfair ruling?

	I think that it's fine to let them drill through a wall with the spell,
as long as the volume ov the core of stone removed is no more than the
maximum allowable volume for the spell.  Such uses of the spell can be very
interesting.  I once played a cleric who managed to kill a Red Great Wyrm with
it.  Our mage had turned it to stone with eyes of petrification (barely
managing to overcome his magic resistance), but the DM ruled that the effect
was only temporary (due to the dragon's great power).  While the Dragon was
stone, Ren (my cleric) simply reshaped the stone, removing a core straight to
the dragon's heart, so that it died instantly upon returning to flesh form.
I think that it is such innovative uses which make spells worth while.

BTW:	I believe that the spel is called Shape Stone.  Stone Shape is a
	Wizard spell that turns the caster into a rock or part of a rock (for
	the purpose of concealment.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  -"I have something to say.  It's better to burn out, than to fade away!"-  |
|                          -* THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE *-                        |
kurgan@choate.edu--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: praxis@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Laura L Perkinson)
Subject: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:34:55 GMT

	Sheesh! Where did folks get the idea that psionicists are so
ungodly powerful? Sure they've got their strengths (one being: they're
tough to hold prisoner.) But they've got their weaknesses too.
	One guy claimed they're more powerful than mages. Name 1 psi
power that compares to Wish. Or Power Word Kill. Or Prismatic Sphere.
Or...
	I played a psionicist in a high level campaign with a great variety
of character classes. And I can safely say that a one on one slugfest
between any 2 PC's was an utter tossup. Either person might have won.
If my psionicist had been unfortunate enough to duke it out with the
party necromancer, and he wins on initiative... Well, it just takes a
teensy bit of slightly bad luck for Finger of Death or Prismatic Spray
to make any psionicist hate what little of his life he's got left.

	A quick review of psionic power limitations:

	1)Almost NO psionic powers inflict direct HP damage. Death
Field gives others a save to avoid, but always affects the psi.
	Disintegrate risks the power backfiring. Plus it falls victim
to the law of diminishing returns: against high-level opponents, it's less
likely to work (good saves). Against low-level types it's less likely to be
needed. Someone @ level 4 with 17 hp can probably be polished off by the
fighter in a round or two.
	2)Psi powers are FAR more useful out of combat (gathering info,
avoiding traps and such) and assisting other characters (dimension door
helps mages aim spells like Lightning Bolt or Cone of Cold; Soften or
Molecular Manipulation weakens enemy fighter types for the PC fighters
to kill.)
	3)The most fear-inspiring stuff is hard to do and deuced expensive
in PSP's. Check out the description of Domination again.
	4)Spells go off when you cast them. Psionicists have to roll, and
can "miss" just like folks attacking with weapons.
	5)HP can be magically healed. For PSP's, you just have to wait.
Unless you're lucky enough to have a cleric who can do the Nap spell.
And have a free hour to burn.
	6)Psionicists still have Rogue HP, armor restrictions and THACO.
	7)Stuff that drives a psionicist crazy: other psis (with
Synaptic Static or Psionic Inflation, Mindwipe); magic that zips psionic powers
(Free Action, Otiluke's resilient Sphere, Iron Mind from the Wizard's
Handbook. Plus, if the DM has a world where psionics is even somewhat
common, it stands to reason that there will be magic items like Rings
of Mind Shielding around.) Stuff with minds so alien that telepathic
powers just will never work (demons, dragons and who knows what else
can fall into this category. A DM who lets a psionicist Dominate a dragon
deserves what he gets.)

	In short, the psionicist has his plusses and minuses like
everyone else. IMNSHO, he's better suited than any class to being a
team player. Which is something no munchkin wants, right?

		Think on it,
		Praxis
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:03:49 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
	<BzDC4n.KIA.2@cs.cmu.edu>


ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:
> In article <Bz9K6B.71E@sci.kun.nl> gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course) writes:
> >In <1992Dec13.221033.22732@sfu.ca> akostur@fraser.sfu.ca (Andre John Kostur) \
> writes:
> >
> >> Here's a way to imprison a psionicist.....put a normal helmet on his head.
> >> (PsiHB page 16 "...But if the psionicist is wearing a normal helmet of any
> >> sort, he cannot use his powers...")
> >
> >I'd rule this only work for mind-affecting powers (i.e. most telepathy and
> >mabye clairsentient powers) but woudn't affect things like psychometabolism
> >or teleportation.
> 
> Why?  That makes the class much, much more powerful.
I think the reasoning is that he feels it is silly that the best way
to cripple a psionicist is to sneak up behind them and put a helmet on
their head.  Don't hit them, hitting them won't kill high level
psionicists.  Just put a helmet full of glue on their head.

	joe