HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: AmigaDroids will *never* change
Organization: Columbia U., New York City
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:04:24 GMT
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Jul28.200819.41960@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>So, how many applications can be run in AmigaDOS without slowing the
>machine down a bunch?
>
	AmigaDOS cannot be directly compared with MS Windows. The
question can't be answered numerically.

1) Windows uses virtual memory with a harddrive, the Amiga does
not. Which means that the Amiga will have to have all the memory
in RAM, but then again, things will do MUCH better than if you
had to go to your hard disk to swap tasks.

2) The same applications don't run on both machines. How can we
compare the speeds of MS Word and Excellence, considering that MS
Word does a shitload more than Excellence does. That will make MS
Word have larger memory requirements and run slower. If you need
those features, then that may be acceptable. If you don't need
those features, you'd rather not have the pains.

	However, that said, the Amiga has very efficient
multitasking. It is preemptive, unlike MS Windows 3.1, and it
doesn't have to do anything special to go check if the program is
idling. Programs can simply sleep until an event arrives.
	-- Ethan
From: doctor@k9.UUCP (Paul Broe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:59:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: k9.doctor.0185
Organization: You have to be kidding...
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <mykes.09vc@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> In article <doctor.017n@k9.UUCP> doctor@k9.UUCP (Paul Broe) writes:
> > In article <1992Jul22.025609.11779@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> > >    Not quite.  AmigaOS runs very well on an A2000 with a 14Mhz 68020
>                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > accelerator, 4M of RAM, and 40M SCSI hard drive.  No modern versions of UNIX
>                  ^^^^^^^^^      ^^^
> > > will run at all on such a system, because it lacks an MMU, doesn't have enough
> >                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> 
> Mark is wrong about the MMU (wish I had the 851 for the HW breakpoints :)  He is
> not wrong about a 4M RAM, 40M HD machine being a ridiculously small machine to
> run Unix with a GUI.  Can't swap.  Not enough RAM to load "hello, world" and
> not enough HD to install Unix on.

Yeah, it would need more disk to run Unix and it would still be deathly slow.
We can't let Marc get by with bad facts about the A2620 though. :-)
It does run 2.04 nice though.


-- 
----
Paul Broe
Internet: broe@plains.nodak.edu
UUCP: uunet!plains!prototype!k9!doctor (My Amiga 2500/20)    AmigaUUCP 1.16D
BIX: pbroe Compu$erve: too expensive.                        AmigaOS 2.04
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:50:21 GMT

In article <3459@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
>oleg@crumpet.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) writes:
>
>>Bullshit. Both Democrats and Republicans have done a fair share of mud
>>slinging, but Democrats are much more notorious for having run quite
>>a few poltical machines, which did EVERYTHING to crush any opposition.
>
>  They've done nothing of the magnitude of the Willie Horton piece or
>what you're seeing now with the Zealots-for-Life commercials.

Actually, I think it was Al Gore, who in the '88 Democratic primaries,
first brought up Michael Dukakis' awful furlough program.
And don't forget for a moment that whilst Willie Horton was on furlough,
he made a husband watch Horton rape his wife, and if I am not mistaken
castrated the man.  I'm not SURE who Horton killed in al this, but there was murder, I believe.
>
>>As far as democratic mudslinging, let's take a closer look at the Anita
>>Hill testimony, and the involvement of Democratic senatorial aides in it,
>>or the Robert Bork hearings, or Judge Ginsburg.
>
>  If Reagan and Bush had followed the previous tradition of submitting a
>short list of candidates for the bench then there would be less need to
>scrutinize the agenda-laden bozos that have been offered so far.

Actually, most conservative justice nominees by definition have 
no 'agendas'.  They are _strictly_ interpreting the Constitiution.
Loose interpretation would be quite a fast-and-loose liberal policy.
Just because they point out exactly what the Contitution means and you not liking it doesn't mean they have 'agendas'.  Just that..you disagree with
what the Constitution more literally says.
>
>  -jack-


-- 
*Dan Stephenson das9674@rouge.usl.edu                                          *
*                                                                              *
* "Is it that Blake has a genius for leadership, or merely that *you* have a   *
*  genius for being led?" -Avon, from Blakes 7                                 *
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:11:55 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul30.183124.7814@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
> To my mind, games on consoles are still underpowered, and being limited
> to the TV resolutions, nowhere near enough interesting... few of the
> games I see in arcades impress me.  I had a Genesis here with 10 games...
> the only on that grabbed me was Streets of Rage, and I grew bored with it
> after 20 hours in four days... on a 19" T.V.  I saw what looked like an
> RGB connector in the back, but couldn't figure out how to connect it to my
> 1084.
>

My 1084s came with a monitor cable that works just fine with the Genesis...

The real problem with both the Genesis and the Amiga are that they are
underpowered 68000 CPUs.

> The T.V. makes the games blurry, limits the resolution, washes out the
> colors...
>

Couldn't agree more.

> Compared to Amiga on RGB, get blown away... SpeedBall2 is the most awesome.
>

RGB is always nicer, but lo resolution and lack of color hurts games.  Unless
you want to do lots of grey-scaled art, as found in SpeedBall2.

> CBM should market OEM'd arcade machines.
>

CBM hardware is too lousy at the low end and too expensive at the high end
(and still not graphically powerful enough) to be used in arcade machines
these days.


> Thom

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: HFS, Inc. (FSO)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:02:34 GMT

In article <dano.711957615@srl01> dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson) writes:
>ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
>
>>In article <192001@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>
>>>on a 286 with a neat shareware utility.  What the 286 can't do is multitask
>>>multiple DOS sessions.  A 386, of course, can (yes, I know it doesn't pre-
>>>emptively multitask).
>
>>Ever try something simple like having two DOS sessions run the dir command
>>simultaneously?  Do both session scroll at once?
>
>Hmm, if they do, they do it REAL SLOW.  It's been a long time,...
>I've used OS/2 for a long while now..  i do remember running multiplt
>DOS things before,though, and multi-floppy formatting.

I actually tried a simple test with WINDOWS.  I did a simple DIR of the
C:\WINDOWS command in different modes.  This was done on a full 386 with
ISA bus, 4 Meg of memory.  Here is the result:
DOS - No WINDOWS		3 seconds
WINDOWS - Full screen		6 seconds
WINDOWS - Windowed session	15 seconds
WINDOWS - 2 Windowed sessions	27 - 35 seconds depending on tuning parameters
				used.
The dual sessions were run with background enabled and different ratios of
background/foreground priorities among other parameters.  Another item of
interest is that there was *NO* disk activity during the test so I assume that
the directory pages were already in memory.

Now to be fair, running this on a 486 EISA machine with 8 M memory produced
much better results where dual sessions didn't take that much overhead.
WINDOWS - Windowed session	3 seconds
WINDOWS - 2 Windowed sessions	4 seconds

Anyone is free to draw their own conclusions.
>
>--
>Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
>Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
>papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
>closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?y
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:37:51 EST
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1100@se.alcbel.be>, magu@se.alcbel.be (Mike Aguilar) writes:
> 
> > 
> One of the reason for the PCs dominance was the proliferation of its 
> compatibles. Why can't the Amiga have a compatible?  Who says it can't,
> Commodore?  I'm sure most of you will agree that Amiga is not just Commodore.
> 
	Hey, Think about this: IBM the original "clone" maker is out of
	the clone market.  They have there own architecture (MCA).  Their
	own OS (OS/2). Why? They weren't making money in the face of the 
	clown market.

	The companies that are "running" the clone market are Intel and
	Microsoft.  The clone makers all follow their guidlines and maybe
	add a little twist to distinguish their machine from the rest of the 
	pack.

	How do you think Commodore would make money and stay in business
	by letting the Amiga architecture be cloned?  BTW I think 
	Commodores' pricing is a bit too high, but not as bad as most
	people in this group generally say.  I don't expect Commodore
	to sell as cheap as a clone maker who has much less R&D
	expenditures than Commodore (does anybody know Gateways R&D
	spending?) Also the Amiga market is relatively small.  I still
	like the machine in spite of it and Commodores' problems.
> 
> --
>   // Mike Aguilar                          Phone: (32) 3 240 4289
> \//  email : magu@se.alcbel.be             BELL ext. 4289

Fred Heitkamp	     *** No Sig ***  (Is it now a sig by default?)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:10:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.152431.4208@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>
>acclerators were produced that did not have the MMU.  The MMU isn't much 
>good for AmigaOS, though.

Yes it is.  Both "cpu" and "enforcer" come with the standard 2.04 distribution,
and both use the mmu.  In particular, being able to relocate kickstart into
ram is a good thing as far as AmigaOS is concerned.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Falcon specs... good, but not killer.  Midrange.
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:07:23 GMT

From cheshire.oxy.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!fwi.uva.nl!gene.fwi.uva.nl!kort Fri Jul 24 18:09:24 PDT 1992
Article: 12442 of comp.sys.atari.st
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: kort@fwi.uva.nl (Jan Kort (I89))
Subject: Falcon info
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:36:14 GMT

Hardware:
16 MHz MC68030 
32 MHz Motorola 56001 DSP-chip
1,4 or 16 MegaByte (No simms ...)

External connectors:
parallel port
serial port
SCSI II-port
Video out/Genlock
stereo headphones-out
stereo mike-in
DSP / Digital audio interface
RF-Modulator(TV)
LAN-port

Cartidge ROMport
Joysticks
MIDI-In
MIDI-Out

ST-joystick / mouseports

Intern
DRAM expansion board
Internal bus expansion-slot
Internal IDE harddisk-connection
Internal diskdrive

Resolutions:
Mode		Resolution	Bitplns	colors	pallette
ST Low-res	320x200		4	16	4096
ST Med-res	640x200		2	4	4096
ST High-res	640x400		1	2	4096
		640x480		8	256	262.144
true color	320x200		15	32768	--
VGA/VIDEO	x:320 or 640	1,4,	2,16,	(overscan select)
		y:200 or 400	8	256	262.144

The DSP can do a 1024 point complex Fast fourier transform in 2.07 
milliseconds. The TT with coprocessor needs 145 milliseconds.

Since the DMA port has been removed you can't use the SLM 804 and 604

The IDE connector allows you to connect a cheaper IDE-harddisk.

P.S. I got all this information from a magazine called "atari st nieuws"
edition 50/51. There's lots more info in the article (especially about the
DSP ). I'm not gonna type all that stuff though :) 

Jan Kort
kort@fwi.uva.nl


------------

These are good for a midrange machine, but the CPU is underpowered for
serious applications, you still need to spend $300 for a monitor, and
$200 or so for a serious hard disk.  

If it sells for $750, then you're talking competition with the 
Mac LC II and Color Classic, which of course it blows away... but still,
not compelling enough to propel everyone into buying it.

Of course, at under $1000 packaged with a hard drive and a monitor of
some sort, it might do it.

Thom
From: catapcnl@NeXTWork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: TOS - Did they ever fix it
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:55:15 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1992Jul27.100320.3346@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>  
mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
:In <epang.712203860@sfu.ca> epang@fraser.sfu.ca (Eugene Pang) writes:
:>>Anyways, this wasn't a *great* idea - TOS bombed on the advanced processors  
:>>that used these instructions, and therefore killed off much development with  
:>>advanced processors)?
:
:>Apple wouldn't think so...Macs use the same method for calling system
:>routines, and they've managed to keep 3rd party development with '020s etc.
:
:
:The problem aren't the A-line traps used by Apple but the F-line
:traps that can only be used without a coprocessor (FPU or MMU) present.
:
:While Apple does only use A-line traps TOS did use F-line traps as well
:to call system routines.
:
:And: it wasn't used to make system calls available! System calls are
:done via TRAP instruction or A-line exceptions. F-line exceptions were
:mostly used to save ROM space (one F-line instruction is shorter than
:a JSR).
:
:Regards,
:-- 
:Michael van Elst
:UUCP:      
universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
:Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
:                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
OK, so how *did* they fix it?? {The stumper for the crowd}.
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"Arsenio sucks.  Bad."
 - Chris Lawrence
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:35:48 GMT

leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
: If you are using OS/2 on a 386sx, then you are certainly using it for the
: sole purpose of multi-tasking DOS apps... which is a waste... come on, we
: all know that the sole reason for OS/2's existence is the high end, and
: preserving IBM's position in the mainframe to network transition.

Why are you so sure?  A 386SX is quite capable of running OS/2 apps.
Especially since OS/2 apps only use as much memory as they need.  There
is no 640K memory space that has to be created in VM.

: The fact that it runs Windows and DOS is a side-issue, a selling point to
: reassure Fortune 500 MIS people that they're software base won't need to
: be replaced/that they won't have to invest and maintain a seperate system.

1) Its not a side issue.  Backwards compatibility and protection of
investment are important issues.

2) There are programs for Windows and DOS you can't find for OS/2.  With
OS/2 you can run your OS/2 high performance apps, while still running
your favorite DOS programs.

: OS/2 is not a consumer, mid-range system... AmigaDOS is.  If we are
: comparing apples to oranges, why not put OS/2 up against another high 
: level language... say, some brand of Unix?

1) OS/2 isn't a language.
2) OS/2 IS a consumer mid-range system.   The average user that I know
that has a PC has a 386-25 to 386-33 with 4-8MB of RAM plus 100+ MG of
harddisk.  Your view of mid-range is behind the times.
3) OS/2 is a single user multi-tasking system.  Unix is a multi-user
multi-tasking system.  They are not in the same class.  OS/2 and AmigaDOG
are in the same class.  Well actually AmigaDOS is a little outclassed,
but serves a similar market.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:43:57 GMT

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>>>I haven't seen Quadra output but most Mac II systems cannot output a
>>>usable NTSC or PAL signal. Can you connect them to a TV or VCR ?
>
>>   Yes.
>
>Still wondering why Macs aren't that much into video then. All Macs I
>have seen that were used for video had an extra video card.

We have this video training session going on at work.  The setups include
Macs with laserdisc players and composite monitors.  People are learning to
control the players using Hypercard buttons and such.  It looks interesting.
I do not know what hardware is in the Macs, though.

-- Gerald
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microstation CAD program now available for IBM/clones
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:54:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

Rule of thumb: a computer is obsolete 18 months after its released.
From: stelmack@incubus.csee.usf.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC's vs. mortals
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:45:42 GMT
Reply-To: stelmack@incubus.csee.usf.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack)
Organization: University of South Florida, Department of Computer Science and Engineering

In article <92194.144918MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>, MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu
(Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes:
|> In article <13o91cINN59l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan
|> Zou) says:
|> 
|> >tony@ais.org (Tony Poole) writes:
|> 
|> >>Yeah, that's why it took a *professional* service tech a couple of
|> *hours*
|> >>to install 2 meg in our 486, right?  Yes, I'm saying that a great
|> deal of
|> 
|> >The guy is either stupid, incompetent, or both.  I consider myself
|> a
|> >pretty common user, took me about 30 minutes to plug 36 DIP style
|> DRAMs
|> >into the memory bank and boot up and have all the memory recognized
|> by
|> >the BIOS.
|> 
|> Ya know, this seems like a pretty common occurence. Person A will
|> post a horror
|> story about how it took a Trained Service Professional n hours to
|> install
|> some random component onto a PC, and then one of the local PC droids
|> follows
|> up with "That guy must have been incompetent, it only took me N
|> minutes..."
|> 
|> Any explanations for the discrepancy, anyone? Perhaps it has
|> something to do
|> with the insanely huge variation in characteristics between different
|> clones.
|> In which case, the original poster IS right: adding things is likely
|> to be
|> a hassle due to all the different specs!
|> 

This is a common occurrence on ALL platforms. The tech in our store invariably
takes 2-3 times as long to install something as I do at home. REASON: he takes
the time to check as much of the system as possible (except for some things
he can't, as he often doesn't have all your video hardware) to make sure
everything still works. Many people don't realise what a tech goes through
on installations and repairs: it is a lot more than most people would at
home, but then isn't that why you take it to a professional?

-- 
-- Greg Stelmack (stelmack@eggo.csee.usf.edu)
-- FullTime Grad Student, PartTime Amiga Salesman, PartTime Amiga Developer
-- Author of: Spades, Pro Port Analyzer Plus, more to come...
-- DISCLAIMER: The opinions reflected here are mine and mine alone.
From: foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:13:44 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Jul23.043044.26864@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:

> In article <1992Jul22.195325.4722@seas.gwu.edu>
> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
> >>philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
> >>>Who cares about games. These won't be colour systems, and anyway games
> >>>will move off computer platforms within 2 years.
> >
> >?????
> >
> >Hmmmm.....

> Don't be too doubtful about this.  I skimmed an Amiga Format magazine
> in the newsagency the other day and there was an editoral comment on how
> the Amiga was in trouble (remember this is a British mag.).  Amiga games
> are only selling 6-7000 copies despite the number of Amigas being greater
> than 3 million.  Piracy is the problem, and games for consoles are selling
> more copies, hence many developers are leaving the Amiga even in the
> games market.

> They said the A600 may help C= in this respect as it has a slot for
> cartridges.  I am slightly doubtful whether this will help, as I can't
> see all Amiga games coming out on cartridge in the near future.

Aren't you assuming that all games are arcade-oriented?  If that were
true then consoles might well dominate.  But any game requiring a lot
of computing power that isn't being used to move objects around on
screen would be better done on a computer.  I can't see complex flight
simulators, where the 3-d calculations dominate the computing time, or
vastly complex simulations like the latest Ultimas being done on
consoles.  And if you need to save any information, you're out of luck
on a console.  If you built a console with these capabilities then
most people would think it was either too expensive or trying to be a
cheap computer and would probably buy a real one.

I don't know about Australia or Britain, but the PC game market in the
US seems to be booming, and I don't see any obvious sign of it
stopping.
-- 

--Colin Howell			email to howell@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
--Cornell Astronomy Dept.	(hopefully switching to computer science)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy