HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfr@redbrick.com (Jon Rosen)
Subject: Re: Video insert editing w/ Hi-8?
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:00:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.004905.25939@muddcs.claremont.edu> nrossi@jarthur.claremont.edu (Nick Rossi) writes:
>
>I recently read a brief reference about something do to with the fact that
>you can't do video insert edits with Hi-8 editing systems.  What's the scoop
>on this?  If I spend a thou or two on an EV-S3000 (or EV-S900) and a
>controller, I won't be able to make my music videos with video inserts?
>Can I do it if I go with S-VHS and buy a SLV-R5 to go with my Yashica KDH-170
>Hi-8 camcorder?  This particular issue seems like a big deal... I'm surprised
>I only saw it mentioned once.
 
  I have posted often on this subject.  The normal AFM audio track on Hi8
  (and regular 8) is modulated or encoded with the video signal.  This makes
  it impossible to do video inserts or audio dubbing with the AFM track.
  If the Hi8 system has a PCM audio track (8-bit digital audio), this
  track is separate from the video (it is also a helical track taking up
  part of the helical scan using the same heads to read and write the
  track but at a slightly different time on the revolution of the heads).
  Thus, by alternately turning on and off the heads at the appropraite
  times, you can do both audio and video inserts in Hi8.  The EVO9700 
  editing system has video and audio insert editing capability.  This
  system includes both play and record decks and controller (plus a 
  crummy titler - sigh) as well as other features.  Insert video works
  quite well, but because the tape movement is not capstan-servo 
  controlled (it is wild and depends on the reliability of the tape
  decks to hold a solid tracking) inserts are limited to 1 minute (if
  you try to program a longer insert, it stops after a minute and then
  resyncs to do the remainder - thus you can and do lose a frame once
  in a while).  I find 1 minute inserts to be plenty long (most of mine
  are only 5-10 seconds).  

  There are other VCRs in Sony's line that do inserts (the 9650 and the
  9850 for two).  The consumer line does NOT provide that capability,
  even though the consumer-oriented Vdeck has PCM audio and so it COULD
  offer it.  I have offered my opinions on why Sony does not offer it
  in its consumer line (basically to protect its industrial margins).
  These are MHOs only.

  Jon Rosen
From: t90534am@sfc.keio.ac.jp (Akira Mito)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: wanted: Sony HD-MAC LD software
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:37:31 GMT
Organization: Faculity of Environmental Information,Keio University Shonan
	Fujisawa Campus(SFC),Japan.


 Hello, this is Akira Mito from Japan. I've been interesred in
HDVS(High Definition Video System) since the day I had seen it
for the first time, because its quality was SO great. What I
saw was not a HD-MAC, but Japanese type of HDVS.(called
"Hi-Vision" in Japan) Now in Japan, the test broadcasting of
"Hi-Vision" had started since last November via direct broadca-
sting satellite. "Hi-Vision" TV set is available at $10,000.

In article <l8jbu0INNjn1@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM (Charles Ingalz [Contractor]) writes:

 |	  If anyone knows or has any reference as to where I can
 |get used SONY HD-MAC (High Definition, Multiple Analog Component)
 |laserdiscs, it would be greatly appreciated.  The material is not
 |really important, its just for demo.  I plan to go to Japan soon,
 |so I would gladly accept responses from abroad.  Please E-mail me
 |at ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM.

 Sorry, I love to type 'F' ;-) 
 
 HD-MAC and all HD(High-Definition) video system needs totally
new signal processing system. But in many cases, HD video signal
is recorded by the ordinary video tape recorder (example: Digital
HD video signal on 1inch metal tape). I think your company have
the player for it.       ^^^^^

 Now, many electric companies of many countries are demonstrating
HD system. It's all the same in Japan :-). I have seen promotional
HD video of SONY, HITACHI and Panasonic, and in every video,
beautiful lady shows :-). You may have seen that.

 Hi-Vision softwares are often provided in 1inch metal video tape,
or in SONY's HD-LD. Maybe Japanese companies will lend you some
softwares, but I think it's hard to find HD-MAC based HD softwares
in Japan, because Japanese type of HDVS is original and unique.

# Sorry, if it's too late.

                     ``HDVS, it's recommended.'' 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Akira Mito(E-Mail:t90534am@sfc.keio.ac.jp)
  Junior@SFC(Keio Univ. Shownan Fujisawa Campus) 
  Department: Environmental Information (It's so COOL,isn't it?)
  Director of the SFC Hi-Vision Club, and member of SFC TiME, C-music.
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: dominic@scooter.genie.uottawa.ca (Dominic Richens)
Subject: Opinions of DPS's "Personal TBC" 
Followup-To: rec.video.production 
Originator: dominic@
Keywords: TBC, IBM-PC, cheap
Reply-To: dominic@shamin.genie.uottawa.ca
Organization: MCRLab - University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 12:45:30 GMT


Hi,

Can anybody comment on the Personal TBC from Digital Processing Systems?
In particular I'm wondering how the thing in controlled.  If it's
controlled by software from the PC, I might have a little trouble, as I'm
running SCO UNIX (oh no, not another device driver to write!).

thanx

dominic

P.S. I only want the thing to regenerate the sync pulses so I can frame
grab off of a VCR.

-- 
!@$^&*)($#$@!@#$^&*()_+_)(*&^$#@!$^&*()_+)(*&^$#@$^&*+_(*&^$#@#^&*()&*$#@(*&+_$!
 Dominic Richens  :  dominic@shamin.genie.uottawa.ca  :  Tel. (613) 564 9911 
      MCRLab, Dept of Elec Eng, University of Ottawa, K1N 6N5, CANADA   
"You construct intricate rituals which allow you to touch the skin of other men"
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: t90534am@sfc.keio.ac.jp (Akira Mito)
Subject: Re: wanted: Sony HD-MAC LD software
Organization: Faculity of Environmental Information,Keio University Shonan
	Fujisawa Campus(SFC),Japan.
	<l953feINN7ni@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:41:06 GMT

In article <l953feINN7ni@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM (Charles Ingalz [Contractor]) writes:

 |> Hi-Vision softwares are often provided in 1inch metal video tape,
 |>or in SONY's HD-LD. Maybe Japanese companies will lend you some
 |>softwares, but I think it's hard to find HD-MAC based HD softwares
 |>in Japan, because Japanese type of HDVS is original and unique.
 |
 |Sorry, I meant to say Hi-vision.  I was mistaken by accidently 
 |assuming it was a MAC player.  The player is the SONY HDL-2000 which 
 |is the current HD-LD format.  While a 1" metal system is little out 
 |of the question (at $10/min for blank tape), I'm still willing to 
 |purchase used HD-LD software.

 Oh, I see. Hmmmmm... HD-LD softwares are demonstrated at "SONY
building" in Tokyo, but I have never heard that those disks are
for sale but some HD-LD disks are "introduced" in SONY's professional
HDVS catalogue (no list price!), so please call SONY. Maybe you can
purchase it (I don't know whether there's a market for used HD softs
or not). I'm sorry that I can't ask them because it's already Saturday
evening here. And I don't know when you are going to leave for Japan,
so I write down the phone number of SONY.

 Info: SONY B&I Network "Eigyoh honbu"(means "sales office")
       +81-3-3448-6740  (In Japan, 03-3448-6740)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Akira Mito(E-Mail:t90534am@sfc.keio.ac.jp)
  Junior@SFC(Keio Univ. Shownan Fujisawa Campus) 
  Department:Environmental Information (It's so COOL,isn't it?)
  Director of the SFC Hi-Vision Club, and member of SFC TiME, C-music.
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: katzung@i88.isc.com (Brian Katzung)
Subject: Re: Video insert editing w/ Hi-8?
Organization: Interactive Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:14:04 GMT

I had read in a magazine article that Hi-8 didn't have a separate
linear control track, and assumed that the increased difficulty
in keeping synchronized with the existing track is what made insert
capabilities relatively less common than on (S)VHS, at least for
the less expensive units.

Yes?  No?  Maybe?

  -- Brian Katzung  katzung@i88.isc.com
Xref: sparky rec.video.production:1330 rec.video:10432
From: JesseWest@cup.portal.com (jesse c newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production,rec.video
Subject: Hi8 tape question
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:40:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

What's the difference between "metal particle" and "metal evaporated"
Hi-8 tapes?

I do a lot of concert shooting, where we take a new tape, run it
through the camera once, then dump it onto U-matic once prior to
editing. We don't edit on Hi-8 and we don't re-use the Hi-8 original.
So is the advantage to evaporated tapes that they are more durable
(dropouts, etc)? Or is it also an image quality issue? If it's
primarily a durability issue, then it doesn't apply to our
application and I can bulk-order a bunch of the cheaper tapes.

People say the evaporated tapes are better, but not WHY. Does anybody
have solid information on this and how it applies to our application?

Thanks!



- Jesse Newcomb     Mountain View, California
JesseWest@cup.portal.com
From: ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM (Charles Ingalz [Contractor])
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: wanted: Sony HD-MAC LD software
Date: 13 Aug 1992 00:41:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: cji


	If anyone knows or has any reference as to where I can get used SONY HD-MAC (High Definition, Multiple Analog Component) laserdiscs, it would be greatly appreciated.  The material is not really important, its just for demo.  I plan to go to Japan soon, so I would gladly accept responses from abroad.  Please E-mail me at ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM.

Thank You

Charles Ingalz

Sun Microsystems Laboratories, Inc.
Mountain View, CA
From: kdawson@AFIT.AF.MIL (KEVIN D. DAWSON)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Toaster-AmiLink-Ampex CVR-70 HELP!!
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:21:44 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology, WPAFB OH

Hello All,
	W've recently gotten the toaster and amilink up and running
	But when we render to tape we get empty spots here and there
	(ie very random), by empty spots I mean black burst or whatever was 
	lead with time code.  When we contacted RGB (Amilink) they told us 
	that we were not alone others have had this occur.  They said they 
	would be faxing us 5-6 pages of revisions to the manual,  Only 3 
	arrived though and I'm calling to get it re-sent.

	  Who else is having this Problem?
	  Could it be the Ampex CVR-70 ?

Kevin Dawson
kdawson@afit.af.mil ?????
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Comparing EVW-300 with TSC-100 hi8 camcorders
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:12:20 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

I decided to post the following messages, which may shed some light
for those contemplating the purchase of a 3-chip hi8 camcorder.  Note
that I own neither of the units I describe, but saw them in equipment
shows and reviewed the specs.
--------------------------

From: senderow@diva.berkeley.edu (Dan Senderowicz)

In article <23699@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Dan wrote:

Mark,

I remember you were very enthusiastic about the Toshiba TCS-1000
at certain point, how would you compare it with the evw-300?
Thanks,

Dan.

From: Goldberg

I think the Toshiba TSC-100 is a good camera.  If one can believe the ads, the
company appears to offer a lot of good support.  I think they have a 
special on now now where an adapter / charger is included with the camera.

However, the EVW-300 seems to be an even better camera when all the 
operating feature features are considered.  It has a beter low light 
spec and a more recent chip - the HyperHAD with on-chip microlenses.  
According to spec, it will go down to 7 lux with 18 db gain.  When such 
is spec'd for a pro camera, it REALLY MEANS 7 lux where white is still 
reproduced as white.  That may be equivalent to a consumer camera with
a 3 lux rating.

It has a few other nice features of importance to event videographers, 
like: manual OR AUTO white balance AND gain, plus the ability to adjust 
image sampling rateg rate to record computer displays without flicker.  
The camera with lens, tape, and battery weighs 12.7 pounds.  Spec says 
it will go over an hour with an NP-1B battery.

One glich with the EVW-300's I saw was auto iris overshoot.  If you 
zoom in on a subject or change quickly to a different lighting condition, 
like when going room to room, the iris overshoots and makes the subject 
noticeably brighter. The sony rep at Wedding Video Expo claims that 
the problem is being corrected and that cameras already sold will be 
updated.

What I don't like about the EVW-300 and TSC-100 is that neither has 
AFM stereo. They do have PCM stereo, though.

Something worth noting is that both cameras have YC outputs, which is 
a valuable feature to those who will dub to another format for editing.

   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
From: trebor@foretune.co.jp (Robert J Woodhead)
Subject: Re: Clients crummy TVs
Organization: Foretune Co., Ltd.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:28:45 GMT

bladin@wam.umd.edu (Dave Bittner & Ilana J. Getz) writes:

>	I realize the best method would be to have them come to my
>studio and view the tape, but this is not always practical.

Go out and find yourself a combo monitor/player (even a small one)
that has a picture you consider acceptable.  Keep it in your trunk.
If the client's TV sucks, go out and get it.

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Robert J. Woodhead, Biar Games / AnimEigo, Incs.    trebor@foretune.co.jp |
|  Fundamental Mistakes in the design of the World's User Interface, #3217  |
|                   "Elevators don't have CANCEL buttons"                   |
From: ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM (Charles Ingalz [Contractor])
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: wanted: Sony HD-MAC LD software
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:07:42 GMT
Reply-To: ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: cji

In article 92Aug19203731@cs1.sfc.keio.ac.jp, t90534am@sfc.keio.ac.jp (Akira Mito) writes:
>In article <l8jbu0INNjn1@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
>ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM (Charles Ingalz [Contractor]) writes:
>
> |	  If anyone knows or has any reference as to where I can
> |get used SONY HD-MAC (High Definition, Multiple Analog Component)
> |laserdiscs, it would be greatly appreciated.  The material is not
> |really important, its just for demo.  I plan to go to Japan soon,
> |so I would gladly accept responses from abroad.  Please E-mail me
> |at ingalz@cji.Eng.Sun.COM.
>
> Sorry, I love to type 'F' ;-) 
> 
> HD-MAC and all HD(High-Definition) video system needs totally
>new signal processing system. But in many cases, HD video signal
>is recorded by the ordinary video tape recorder (example: Digital
>HD video signal on 1inch metal tape). I think your company have
>the player for it.       ^^^^^
>
> Now, many electric companies of many countries are demonstrating
>HD system. It's all the same in Japan :-). I have seen promotional
>HD video of SONY, HITACHI and Panasonic, and in every video,
>beautiful lady shows :-). You may have seen that.
>
> Hi-Vision softwares are often provided in 1inch metal video tape,
>or in SONY's HD-LD. Maybe Japanese companies will lend you some
>softwares, but I think it's hard to find HD-MAC based HD softwares
>in Japan, because Japanese type of HDVS is original and unique.
>



Sorry, I meant to say Hi-vision.  I was mistaken by accidently 
assuming it was a MAC player.  The player is the SONY HDL-2000 which 
is the current HD-LD format.  While a 1" metal system is little out 
of the question (at $10/min for blank tape), I'm still willing to 
purchase used HD-LD software.

Charles Ingalz
Sunlabs (SMLI)
Mountain View, CA
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: Mac Video Production Qs
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:58:33 GMT

In article <Bt9u7M.27A@chinet.chi.il.us> katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) writes:
>   Hi-8 appears to be the best value if you are only reading the spec
>sheets, but it is an amazingly _fragile_ format, ill-suited to the rigors
>of single-framing.

What about the Sony 9650? My impression was this was designed with
single-framing in mind and it did look quite good at Siggraph.

>The likelyhood of you having the same laser
>recorder as a post house is almost nil (if they have one at _all_.)

I do nearly everything with recordable video discs and it is almost
guaranteed that my client won't have a compatible player. I just dupe the
finished product onto which ever format the client needs (which is usually
Beta SP). What does a single-frame capable Beta SP unit go for these
days? I had thought it was still rather lofty. Sony CRV disc recorders
are down around $15K, are Beta SP machines now actually cheaper???
I'm looking to get another machine for at home and I'd rather get a Beta SP
if its in the same ballpark.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   mark@westford.ccur.com        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: pjharris@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Re: More Betacam info (Pro-betacam?)
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:50:25 GMT

In article <gregpen.714030452@crash>, gregpen@crash.cts.com (Greg Penetrante) writes:
> In <1992Aug15.150357@IASTATE.EDU> boylan@IASTATE.EDU (Terran J Boylan) writes:
> 
>>Dear video professionals:
> 
>>My question is this (and I don't want to start a Hi-8 v S-VHS kinda thread):
> 
>>I certainly appreciate any and all responses.  I haven't seen a real discussion
>>on the net about Betacam equipment (or 1" for that matter), and I'm sure that
>>there are a lot of people with experience with S-VHS or 3/4" equipment that
>>hope to move up one day and would be interested in the information.
> 
> 
> I don't mean to digress slightly but I feel obligated to mention that there IS
> a more competitive format out there: M-II.  When my company moved up from SVHS
> we explored many high-end formats and eventaully came to the conclusion that
> in terms of price/performance vs. raw video quality, M-II had a slight edge 
> over Betacam... plus the added thirty minutes of tape recording time was a big
> advantage on documentary shoots.
> We have had EXCELLENT results with M-II and I would also urge others to look
> that way as well (and to avoid overpriced Sony Products :-)  ).
> 
> In Sony's defense they have released the lower-cost Betacam products (which we
> also looked at extensively) which are also quite good, (but lack some features
> that the BVW-75 series has such as Hi-Fi audio)
>  
> -Greg
> 
> 
>>Ames, IA
>>(515) 296-9908


DO NOT, I repeat, NOT, go to M-II.  My evaluation of the latest generation
of M-II lead me to recommend Hi-8 over it!  I have had nothing but problems
in the past with it.  Slow-reacting servos (seeing as though it's just a
modified VHS transport) that when they do kick in, kick in at 32x in shuttle
mode, and slow down what I consider should be a fast edit session (news).
I've had two BRAND NEW ones crap out (and these were for AIR PLAYBACK), and
no explaination offered from Pan. as to why.  That's just the mechanics...

Now the quality. Sure the bandwidth was increased, but so was the noise.  I've
had non-SP Beta look better than some of that stuff.  Please don't send it
anything where the whites even APPROACH clipping, you'll be sorry.  It's only
saving grace with me was the fact that I was using the AQ-20 head on the
camera, a very good quality camera head if I've ever seen one.  The tape
system,though, leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm not starting an argument here, just offering a caveat.  My experience
with Sony, although more expensive, has been much, much better than my
experience with M-II.  If you're looking for something on which you can get
consistent quality at tight tolerences, go with Beta-SP, or research the
2000SP line, I haven't so I can't offer much in that area.  I have dealt with
M-II though, and until I see the next generation I'll keep clear of it.

Patrick Harris
Department of TV, Film and Photography
Gallaudet University

pjharris@galluj.gallaudet.edu
From: boylan@IASTATE.EDU (Terran J Boylan)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: More Betacam info (Pro-betacam?)
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:03:57 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@IASTATE.EDU (Terran J Boylan)
Organization: Iowa State University

Dear video professionals:

First off, I'd like to thank all those that replied to my inquiries
regarding the Betacam equipment.  The predominant opinion was that the
Sony BVW-2800 was the way to go.  From the response I've gotten the
street price for these guys is around $18,000 (Someone wrote that I could
get one for $12,000, but that might have been with an educational discount
or something).  I called around and got rental prices of $275-$300 per day.

Now the BVW-2800 is part of Sony's new Pro-Betacam line.  My understanding
is that this is a notch below their BVW-75 deck.  I would assume that the
2800 would be classified as INDUSTRIAL video and the 35 would be BROADCAST
video, but, as with most of my assumptions, I may be wrong.  The BVW-75's
rent for $450/day.

My question is this (and I don't want to start a Hi-8 v S-VHS kinda thread):

What are the major differences in the *video* quality between the two machines
(BVW-2800 & BVW-75)?  Also, what is the compatibility between the two?  Could
we play tapes from one machine on the other?  Someone said that the BVW-2800's
require Metal tapes but the BVW-75's do not.  Do both machines have separated
Y,Y-R,Y-B component inputs and outputs?  (One main use of the machine would
be transfer to and from an Abekas A-60.)

I certainly appreciate any and all responses.  I haven't seen a real discussion
on the net about Betacam equipment (or 1" for that matter), and I'm sure that
there are a lot of people with experience with S-VHS or 3/4" equipment that
hope to move up one day and would be interested in the information.

Thanks,

Terran J Boylan
Engineering Animation, Inc.
Ames, IA
(515) 296-9908
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: dhollis@nuchat.sccsi.com (Daniel Hollis)
Subject: Dual deck VCR?
Organization: Houston Public Access UNIX
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 05:30:32 GMT

I'd like to get some info on dual deck VCR's. You know, those boxes that
are essentially two VCR's in one box? I remember reading some articles
awhile back and they looked promising (especially for dubbing, which
said that due to the internal connections between decks, was superior
to using cables..) but i can't remember who manufactures them, and how
much they cost. Could someone help me out here?

Thanks.

Newsgroups: rec.video.production