From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  THARKOLD
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:09:30 GMT

Anthony writes:

> The Almighty Kansas Jim writes:
> 
> >Maybe I should touch up the adjustments I made to Tharkold in my game
> >and post them (I think I have before but don't remember exactly) - one
> >of the major things I changed was the tharkoldu writeups.  They're
> >still awful creatures but not as bad as they were before.

> 	Please do post your changes.  I haven't picked up Tharkold
> sourcebook, and from what I heard on this group I didn't really want to.

It's certainly not necessary even in the main WEG campaign world; just
about anything that the tharkoldu have done can either be cut out with
no loss or a ravagon could easily be substituted.  If the likely
Aysle/Tharkold alliance does come to pass that could change things
though (still think it'd be nice and daring for Jezrael's future
romance to be with the WotD.)

I'll try and get my take on Tharkold posted later today - I'll have to
rewrite sections since I wrote it primarily to reinforce things in my
head that I didn't bother to write down originally.

> I do disagree with Jezrael being superior to other High Lords (experience
> equals power, especially with a DD giving possibilities for stats and
> skills over time).

What it seems happened in the Tharkold SB is that Malgest took all the
PE it had given the previous HL (don't remember his name) and
transferred it into Jezrael, effectively making her a pseudo-
experienced HL.  I don't agree with it exactly but there's nothing in
the rules to suggest that this isn't possible.  In HLoE Malcolm Kane
gets a big does of PE from the DD and his stats get varmped up a bit
so its not impossible for Malgest to have raised Jezrael's stats, I
just find it difficult to believe that it could raise them as high as
the writeup suggests.  If the DD can suck PE out of the former HL and
transfer it then it is more believable (but still not very acceptable). 

One thing that did get cut out of the Tharkold SB were the attribute
limit tables for tharkoldu and the Race.  I got the tharkoldu table ok
but a file transfer problem scrambled the headers for the Race.
However, something that was never really explained on GEnie indicated
that the Race could raise its attributes just as outrageously as the
tharkoldu could, somehow tied into the Law of Domination the same way
it was for the tharkoldu.  Perhaps that bit was cut from the SB but
the editors didn't catch onto the fact that Jezrael could no longer
have the utterly outrageous attributes that her writeup indicates.

I don't have a rewrite of Jezrael in my Tharkold stuff, simply because
I didn't see the need at the time (she's even less likely to run into
PCs than 3327 is.)

> 	It doesn't seem like Tharkold, in itself, is much of a problem,
> though.  I'm hesitant to put it in a game because Tharkold characters
> would be totally superior to others, and many players would want to play

No one has really expressed an interest in my game, though it could be
because they were able to detect the anti-Tharkold waves emanating
from behind the GM screen...nowadays I'd be willing to allow anything
but a techno-demon PC (so long as the player could reasonably explain
why his character was in Greece instead of LA.)  On a similarly
related subject, there hasn't been much interest in Space Gods
templates either (one exception, and she only played the character a
short while) in my game.

> them.  The surest solution would be to introduce a new world law
> for Tharkold (if there isn't one like this already...) that Tharkold
> technology and magic (Occulttech, cyber, and whatever) cannot function
> outside of a Tharkold realm.  Period.  Not a minor matter of one-case
> contradictions (like they ever stop players...), but a simple imposibility
> to create a contradiction, as if they were in a Pure zone of non-Tharkold
> reality; the only way to make the equipment work would be to create
> a reality bubble.

That would effectively keep the tharkoldu within their own stelae
regions and would make it damn difficult for them to conquer an alien
realm (could explain why it took 500 years or so to conquer 10 or so
cosms).  I think its a bit extreme though.

Occultech does require a Magic 12 and Tech 26 but I don't recall
whether or not it also depends on the World Laws (some magic does); if
it did then it is an automatic contradiction anywhere but Tharkold.

> 	As to the nuclear question, someone (I don't remember who, might
> even have been in Infiniverse) said that Thark is not nuclear capable.
> That need not be the case, but Thark nuclear weaponry would have no
> possibility of working on Earth.

WEG said that Tharkold 'may not' have developed nuclear weapons, since
it was possible that their technological research never diverged in
the appropriate direction.  Personally, I kind of doubt it myself; if
they have fusion reactors (which I think was mentioned somewhere in
the SB) then they know enough about nuclear physics to realize how big
of a bomb they could build....

Hmmm, weren't nuclear weapons mentioned as being partially responsible
for the Spasm?  Perhaps the tharks and Race do know how to construct
nukes but avoid doing so because the believe it could lead to another
Spasm.  

> 	I say let Tharkold be as much of a battleground as WEG wants it
> to be; its not dangerous to the rest of the world if Thark SKs can't
> corrupt the rest of the world with their miserable munchkin technology.

The Cyberpapal technology can be just as munchkin in the wrong hands;
the problem is that Tharkold tends to promote the munchkin/power gamer
method of playing so it looks worse off as a result.  And if the
Akashans put their minds to it they can build weapons that will make
the tharkoldu look puny in comparison (if a gravitic ray can have a DV
of 30 and be the size of a shotgun, imagine what their heavy weapons
will be like.)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg