From: varmint@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Samir Varma)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Release dates ( was Re: superVGA (and misc top-blowing)
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:01:49 GMT
Organization: Center for Particle Physics, University of Texas

In article <1992Aug18.210608.18231@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>In article <77766@ut-emx.uucp> varmint@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Samir Varma) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.140856.21609@hellgate.utah.edu> brian%jensen.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>>
>>>I know people that swear that vi/emacs and troff/TeX are the best way to
>>>word process too.... I also know these same people haven't checked out
>>>the abilities of modern programs.
>>>
>>>Certain apps are simply better in a GUI environment.
>>
>>Dude, 
>>
>>This is absolute, unadulterated, bullshit.  I've tried many modern
>>WYSIWYG programs, Microsoft Word for Windows, Ami Pro, Word Perfect
>>etc. etc.
>>  And, they're all less efficient for getting the job done
>>than GNU Emacs/TeX.  If you're a touch typist, there is simply no
>>substitute for Emacs (or vi if you're so inclinded) and for serious
>>typesetting of theses, books and papers, TeX is the best (especially
>>if you are going to have any mathematics whatsoever).  I suspect that
>>you've either never spent the considerable time necessary to master
>>TeX and Emacs or you just haven't done anything sophisticated with your
>>WYSIWYG word processors.
>>
>>I suggest that you don't cast aspersions on those who don't make the same
>>choices as you---who knows, they might even know a thing or two.
>>
>>Samir Varma
>>
>
>You can tell someone not to cast aspersions on those
>who don't make the same choises you do, but pleas dont do that in the SAME
>POST that you do the same thing.
>
>You know, not every use of word processing is churning out academic papers
>in a place where UNIX boxes are everywhere.  Not everyone can afford the time
>to learn emacs/TeX.  Not everyone writes enough documents to warrant learning
>those apps.
>
>Not everyone needs to do sophisticated things with word processors.
>
>Please be consistent, at least from one paragraph to the next, though.
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>MyOpinions...  (condensed version)

Actually, Pete, if you read the post carefully, that's exactly what
I'm saying. In my opinion, for me, emacs/TeX is the way to go.  For
other people, it may or may not be.  The whole point is that different
people are going to make different choices depending on what they need
to getdone.
                                                              
 II'll be the first to state that for normal business or company use,
Emacs/TeX is overly complicated, too technical and a f**cking pain in
the ass to use. But, for Technical Documents, there is simply no
substitute (again, in my opinion ---I'm not stating that what goes for
me goes for everyone--simply that people should try things out before
deciding).  Nothing else works quite as well including FrameMaker, Ami
Pro and your own Word for Windows.

To use Emacs/TeX efficiently, you need to spend a lot of time
mastering both of them--certainly a lot more than WYSIWYG word
processors, especially for simple things.  But, once they're mastered,
they're not difficult to uee, even for simple things.  The learning
curve is steep, that's all.

My objection to the original poster was that he was advocating HIS
solution for everyone and telling the rest of us that we didn't know
what in the hell we were doing choosing to use TeX/Emacs instead of the
latest and greatest.  Once again, to belabour the point, for Technical 
stuff (which is what I was talking about) there none of these other things
work quite as well.  Yes TeX can be a pain when it comes to things like
pictures (which is where WYSIWYG is so nice) but there just isn't anything
else on the market which:

a) works as well
b) is as widely supported
c) doesn't cost an arm and a leg
and, 
d) is the de-facto scientific standard for papers.


Samir Varma
Note: I didn't bash MS once in the above!!!  Must be getting old.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy