From: jpj@cs.hut.fi (Juha Jalovaara)
Subject: SOTG calls
Followup-To: rec.sport.disc
Keywords: SOTG
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:25:22 GMT


In article <1992Jul27.112727.26108@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> stegerc@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Carsten Steger) writes:

>There's one thing that came to my mind while watching some of the
>games of the German nationals recently.
>Imagine the following: A player catches the disc with nobody within 10
>meters around him. He then throws off a long huck downfield. In the
>act of doing so he drags his pivot foot maybe 20 centimeters or so.
>Someone who is 20 meters away from the throwing player calls
>'travelling'.
>In my opinion it is against the spirit of the game to call a travel
>under such circumstances, because the thrower gets no advantage by
>travelling this way because he doesn't evade the mark of his marker.
>I would like to hear your comments on this.
>Carsten

and

MARK>Getting around a marker is not the only illegal advantage to be gained by
MARK>dragging the pivot foot.  Most throwers can add significantly to the power
MARK>and/or distance of their throws if they do this.  Hence, if the throw is 
MARK>indeed a long huck as your example states, I think a travel call is entirely
MARK>appropriate.  However, I have seen teams use this kind of call to set up 
MARK>defense when they are torched on a turnover.  In this case the opposition 
MARK>should require the team that made the call to return to the positions they
MARK>were at when the call was made.  Alternatively, simply don't travel and thus
MARK>don't give them the excuse to make the call.

							Mark

and

TROY>I would have to agree (with most players, presumably) that the call
TROY>you describe is probably against the SOTG.

TROY>However, there is an equally important other side to many similar
TROY>stories which is all too often overlooked.  The fact is that it is
TROY>MUCH easier to execute a good long throw if one takes an extra step or
TROY>a little hop, or even lifts the pivot foot significantly before
TROY>releasing the disc (jumping all of your weight to the other foot,
TROY>similar to the release of a pull).  I don't think it is within the
TROY>SOTG for the thrower to do this just to get a decent huck off.  It
TROY>happens all the time, yet if called back on a travel the thrower and
TROY>the rest of his/her team invariably complains at length.  I believe
TROY>the thrower needs to demonstrate the ability to make the long throw in
TROY>question without travelling in order to stay within the spirit of the
TROY>rules.


Troy
Seattle Sockeye
troy@u.washington.edu

I would have to agree with Troy and Mark about the advantage one can gain
by dragging the pivot foot or taking an extra step in long hucks.  What I
think is more important here, however, is the SOTG issue.  I believe the
rules should include a statement about the rights and responsibilities of
players to make calls in situations like these, but I am not sure what it
should be.

Many people seem to feel very strongly that if you get burned on D, you
lose your right to make a) travel calls and b) pick calls.  This is kind
of like saying that if you run a stop sign, the police may beat you up.

I am aware of the aggravation caused by calls such as the one described
by Carsten; exactly the same thing happened to me in our Monday night game.
In spite of my immediate frustration, I had to agree that I had in fact
travelled and therefore the call was justified.  This did not make me feel
much better, though.

If you have suggestions as to what the rules should give as a guideline
for the SOTG in these instances, please post them.   I think by addressing
this issue explicitly in the rules, we might alleviate some of the prob-
lems caused by teams having different interpretations of what should be
called and what should not.

Here is my first offering:

"It is assumed that players will not intentionally use the rules to gain
undue advantage or to cover for shortcomings in their own play, to do so
is against the SOTG.  However, when a blatant violation or foul is
committed, the team suffering from the infraction should make the call
irrespective of the fact that the ensuing seizure of play may be to their
advantage."

Please submit your opinions and improvements.

-- Juha



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