From: shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Win Win situation for Muslims Hindus & Secularists at Ayodhya
Date: 9 Jan 1993 01:31:39 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu
Summary: What is the reality behind the inverted swastika..............
Keywords: Hang loose on the Caboose !

In article <1993Jan8.193043.3081@zip.eecs.umich.edu> raghu@nairobi.eecs.umich.edu (Raghu Mani) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.152014.8008@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>|> 
>|> 	Selva, I thought I will never confront you. But since you have
>|> 	mentioned my name, you deserve a prompt reply. It is not shame
>|> 	but a grace of hinduism that we are talking against the barbaric
>|> 	politics of India. Ayodhya is just a symbol of that voice. I
>|> 	don't know how much you know of hinduism, I can defend the so
>|> 	called barbaric act of Mosque domilition based on hindu argument.
>|> 	Can you tell me how many dead bodies the kar sevaks have to go
>|> 	through before they demolished the mosque? None. The violence
>|> 	in the aftermath of that demolition is created by Congress and
>|> 	other pseudo secularists so that they can get widespread support
>|> 	for anti-demolition activities and particularly to diminish the
>|> 	popularity of BJP in the hindi-belt. I have no problem with this,
>|> 	it is all poltics. Let us apply a spiritual argument.
>|> 
>This is as extreme a point of view as I have heard. Regardless of what anyone
>felt about the mosque, you have to admit that to a vast majority of Muslims,
>it meant a great deal - not perhaps, as a place of worship, but certainly as
>a symbol of Islam. Now if you tear something like this down, you have dealt
>a great blow to these people and there is *bound* to be violence. If the BJP
>and VHP are to take credit for the destruction of the mosque, they had better
>accept at least part of the blame for what followed since it was a direct 
>consequence of their action.
>
DELETED MATERIAL

>|> 	beyond the forces of gunas, that
>|> 	consciousness is what Krishna was talking about as Divine nature
>|> 	which does not distinguish between moral and ethical aspects of
>|> 	good and evil.
>|> 
>|> namaste,
>|> 
>|> -- Virendra Verma
>
>What bothers me most about the destruction of the mosque is not the actual
>destruction itself but the motives behind the parties/groups that engineered
>it. What we have here is a group of parties that have for many years been
>trying to win the support of the majority religious group by trying to incite 
>anger and aggression against a minority religious group. Advani, Vajpaye and 
>other "moderates" are merely the acceptable face of the BJP/VHP. Behind this
>mask, the BJP/VHP are as extreme as you can get - I have heard tapes of speeches
>by the likes of Ashok Singhal and Uma Bharati - they bear a very disturbing 
>resemblance to the speeches by the Nazi leaders about the Jews. 
>
>Since Mr. Verma has quoted Hindu philosophy to justify his position, let me do
>the same to justify mine. One of the things that the Gita teaches us is that
>the motives behind our actions are as important as our actions themselves. It
>is Krishna's advice to Arjuna to fight because it is the correct thing to do -
>because, in that situation, it is his duty - if we learn anything from this,
>it is that personal advancement and revenge SHOULD NOT be motives in a conflict
>of this nature. Can anyone honestly say that the BJP/VHP acted solely out of 
>a desire for the general good? 
>
>The BJP has engineered this entire episode with a view of gaining support among
>Hindus - this is not to say that the other parties haven't been equally selfish - 
>the Congress is among the worst offenders in this regard - and yes, I do agree
>with many of the BJP's complaints about pandering to minorities but I am 
>very much opposed to their idea of a solution. India is like a patient with some
>kind of tumor - surgery is certainly needed but we do not want a surgeon who 
>tries to cure the problem by lopping the patient's head off.
>
>Raghu Mani

Dear Raghu,

I am disturbed by all fanatics be they hindoo or muslim or KKK here in U.S.
As these feed on ignorant and poor of the society who are the easiest to 
make fools of.

One area of hindooism I was discussing with a group of class mates was the
recent Babri mosque destruction, and the group being predominantly white
Americans wanted to know about hindoo-muslim antagonism.

So far I have only asked them to follow scp/sci/scb to get an idea of the
atmosphere and maybe gleen some information about the issue.

However, I did mention that the swastika in an inverted form was something
I felt had to to with hindoo fanaticism, as well as the caste system, similar
to Nazi philosophy.

You seem to have a better background knowledge about the mentality and the 
present ongoing situation in India. Could you please throw some light on this
sensitive topic ?

btw, I seem to have offended at least one person regarding the Bhangi/Chamaar
usage towards people whose vocabulary seemed restricted to obscene and vulgar
gutter language.   

Bhangi/Chamaar are generally known in Pakistan to use this
kind of language normally without any hangups and are pretty proud of
themselves. So, as none of the Bhangis have countered my article nor taken
offence as being called Bhangi, they too must be proud of that honor.

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian