HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leiy@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: <None>
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:39:14 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


 In article <1992Dec4.135852.26039@u.washington.edu> seb@stein.u.washington.edu (-s e b a s t i a n-) writes:
>>>>	oh yeah, make that 2, sucker! fuck some of the mainland mental 
>>>>	disability students here at the u.s.  regardless how the situation
>>>>	at mainland is improving, chinese people at mainland are simply
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     Watch your mouth! I am from Mainland
                                     So what?! I am much successful than you!
	                             idiot!     
>>>>	POOR, no money, no nothing. they suck big time! (not all, of course)
>>>>	again, all i want to say is: most people from mainland still dress
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     I will ask sb in Washington to ask
		                     you to repeat these words in front of him
				     Be careful!         
>>>>	like homeless, act like homeless, and talk and write on the net
>>>>	like homeless. 
>>>>	/seb@u.washing
>> 
 I got your messages about the Chinese people
 .....very interesting...... and very rich coming from a stupid taiwanese 
 Son Of A Bitch who is paid to lick the shit out of the American's Assholes.
 You expend so much of your mental energy "thinking" how to kiss them better
 that I am surprised you have time to think up such profound Bullshit.
 Rumour has it that a pig fucked your mother (who as mentioned is a dog) while
 she sucked an elephant and from this they got you!!!!!!!!! But as I say it
 is only a rumour, 'cos most intelligent people assume that you are the 
 left overs of a retarded Hippopotamus' miscarraige that slid down the sewer
 in Taiwan and reappeared rearing  "its"  ugly head in the states...........
 God Help America !!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Re: DATA: largest world economies
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:09:51 GMT

In article <CNS=Lf#@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
>	Their interpretation will base on what they percieve.
>The perception is mainly from Taiwan government and people of Taiwan. 
>It is our goverment and citizen's job to show that we don't represent China;
>we represent Taiwan.  We want China to leave us alone.
>We need international friends to help us not only in the invasion but also
>in joining the international society.

What Taiwanese think about Taiwan is only a very small factor in what
other governments do with respect to Taiwan.  Most governments are
movitated based on what they preceive to be in their self-interest.

For the United States, the cost benefit analysis in recognizing ROC
is:
cost - PRC will get very mad, not cooperate in the UN, make doing business 
       harder
benefit - None.  All U.S. interests in Taiwan are served well in the current
          pseudo-recognitions

From this analysis, one can conclude that the U.S. will not official
recognize ROC.

On the other hand for Nigeria,
cost - PRC will get very mad, (so what?)
benefit - ROC has $$$$$$$$

Hence, one can conclude that Nigeria will recognize ROC.

Now for the F-16 fighters, Bush was thinking
cost - PRC will get a little mad and file lots of protests
benefit - Lots of General Dynamics workers in an important state will vote
  for me

Hence, one can conclude that Bush will sell Taiwan fighters.

The thing about the above is that none of these factors are affected
by what Taiwan calls itself.  Hence, it's likely that the behavior of
governments will not change regardless of what Taiwan calls itself.  

One more thing.  You seem to forget that a lot of governments have
separtist problems of their one, so Taiwan is unlikely to generate
much sympathy by saying that they are separate from China.  Indonesia
has problems with East Timor.  Morroco has problems with Western
Sahara.  Cyprus has problems with North Cyprus.  India has problems
with just about every one of its states.  Almost every state in
sub-Saharan Africa has had some separatist movement in its history.

If you think that the international community will welcome Taiwan if
it only declares that it is not part of China, you are under a
very dangerous delusion.

>	Everyone knows there is only one China, PRC.

I don't know that.  Mr. Shao doesn't know that.  The United States in
1971 did not know that.

That's not everyone.

>The fact is we represent Taiwan! 
>Nothing more nothing less.

Technically, the ROC also has de facto jurisdiction of small parts of
Fujian province (Jinmen and Matsu).

>The use of ROC gives wrong intrepretation

The interpretation is that ROC is the de facto government of part of
China just like the ROK is the de facto government of part of Korea.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Candidates supporting TI need your support(I)DIR
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:43:12 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Dec14.171833.24041@cbnews.cb.att.com>, liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:

>> 	** I am glad to hear you say that.
>> 
>> 	   That means they would not be elected.
> 
> I am also glad to hear you say that.
> 
> While we are making our move, you are sitting still.

	** Sitting still is not necessary bad. 

	   Moving is not necessary good.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: It is a total waste of time
From: koutd@hiramc.hiram.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:30:27 -0500
Organization: Hiram College
Nntp-Posting-User: koutd

In article <1992Dec19.170937.29504@csie.nctu.edu.tw>, chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann()) writes:
>   It's meaningless to keep on discuessing/arguing on which one of the
> CCP and KMP is better.
> 
>   Futher is the most important thing. We should focus on whether the 
> governments improve and how much they improve and ,if possible, HOW
> they improve.
> 
>   Merry X'mas & Happy New Year !
>                                                        Shann....
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: the name?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:32:19 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec14.204316.27202@athena.mit.edu>, joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:
> 
> The costs are possible Mainland invasion, and the end of Taiwanese
> business opportunities on the Mainland. 

That would be Mainland's cost too!
Maintaining the use of ROC, cannot guarantee those won't happen either.

> Right now, the PRC offers a
> favorable business environment to Taiwanese because "We are all
> Chinese."  If Taiwan is "just another country," then the Mainland has
> no reason to favor Taiwanese businessmen over Japanese, American, or
> European.  Moreover, if Taiwan is "just another country," the PRC can
> then seize all Taiwanese investment on the Mainland because PRC has
> no obligation to help "foreigners."

	I will expect a communist country will behave that way.
So you are saying Taiwanese should not invest in Mainland, because
there is no guarantee for safety. Maybe our Taiwanese businessmen
want to learn from you.  I think Taiwanese investment in
Mainland is based on mutual benefit, and you are telling me China
is doing Taiwan a favor.

> 
> Right now, that seems to mean "two China."
> 
> >Why, Taiwan is still Taiwan. Every penny our people make is still a penny.
> >Don't tell me that billions of dollars that 20 million people earned belong
> >to ROC. It's people who own the country, the government. It's not ROC that
> >owns the people, the property.
> 
> And you don't seem to allow those people to choose "two China."
 
How about one China one Taiwan?  
You don't seem to allow Taiwan people to choose either.
From: orb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Norman Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: summer school
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:43:51 GMT
Organization: Knights of Amy (Internet Division)

In article <1992Dec11.143403.13011@seas.gwu.edu> yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura) writes:
>Hi, I'm a student at George Washington University and I've been wondering if anyone could give me any information about any summer chinese language programs in Taiwan?  I haven't been reading this soc.culture.taiwan too long, but I'd be very glad if someone could give me addresses to write to or something like that.  I have no Chinese knowledge, but my girlfriend wants to go too, and she speaks mediocre.  Thanks a lot.

  Well, here is my list of schools for Taiwan.  I would be interested in 
hearing what your impression of any of them are if you happen to go with
one.  I am planning to study in mainland China this summer, but I hope to
spend a few years in Taiwan (possibly at a language school) after I gradauate.

 Here goes:

   Mandarin Training Center
   National Taiwan Normal University
   Hoping East Road, Sec. 1
   Taipei, Taiwan,  ROC

   Mandarin Daily News Language Center
   11-4 Fu Chow Street
   2nd Floor
   Taipei, Taiwan,  ROC

   Director, Tunghai Summer Program
    (for study at Tunghai in Taiwan)
   Dept of Asian Languages and Literature
   University of Massachusetts
   Amherst, MA 01003

   Taipei Language Institute
   104, Hsin Yi Road
   Section 2, 7th floor
   Taipei, Taiwan, ROC

   Inter-University Program for Chinese
     Language studies in Taipei
   200 Lon Henry Hoover Building
   Stanford University
   Stanford, Ca  94035 

  
  Anyways, the list is far from complete but it is what I got when I went
to an orientation session for students wish to study Chinese in China, Taiwan
or Hong-Kong.  Hope it helps...


______________________________________________________________________________
orb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu              "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
                                     I chose to climb the nearest tree.
                                     And that has made all the difference."



Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16352 soc.culture.china:33206
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme
From: shaohui@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:42:44 CST
 <1992Dec17.040343.15498@u.washington.edu> <BzFy78.Cyq@ecf.toronto.edu>
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

In article <BzFy78.Cyq@ecf.toronto.edu>, huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING) writes:
> In article <1992Dec17.040343.15498@u.washington.edu> seb@stein.u.washington.edu (-s e b a s t i a n-) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec16.211706.17115@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>>>In article <Bz0s0s.Mq4@ecf.toronto.edu> huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING) writes:
>>>>>    You are the ones who are homeless. Been conquered and completely
>>>>>enslaved by the Japanese to the point of forgetting your real name,
>>>>
>>>>     Taiwan was surrendered to the Japanese in 1894.  We were not conquered.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, even more disgusting, Chinese lost to Japanese and gave up Taiwan.
>>>I'm glad Taiwanese have a chance to experience another culture which is
>>>much better than the Chinese culture.
>>>
>>>Yi-Chieh
>>
>>
>>	some of my relatives (elder) still speak japanese in taiwan.
>>	they had japanese education in the early years because taiwan
>>	was occupied by japan.
> 
>      At least the Japanese contributed something to Taiwan while they were 
> there, that was by making education popular.
>>
>>	i think this is rather an ADVANTAGE to those taiwanese because
>>	simply because the more languages you know, the more benefit
>>	you get from it.
>>
>      Not only that, we can also deal with Japanese better when trading because
> we understand the Japanese and their ways.  That is one of Taiwan's major 
> advantages over other nations when trading with Japan.
> 
>   Then, how to explain Taiwan's 10 billion trade deficit to Japan and
Mainland's 8 billion trade surplus to the same country.
    I also respect some good aspects of Janpanese culture. However, I don't
think you should proudly sell the Japanese influence which they forced to
Taiwan during their occupation. Furthermore, I will not agree that Taiwanese
have learnt the best things of Japanese culture: discipline and cooperation.
Please look at the transportation in Taipei and the body contact in congress.
As to cultural influence, you have to admit that Chinese culture plays a much 
bigger role in Taiwanese society, although to which you are inclind to deny. I
appreciate your openess to other cultures, which is implied in your article.
Nevertheless, to learn something from other, you should carefully examine what
you have already had and need to be preserved, and what need to be improved.
That is the reason that why Japanese kept learning from Chine for thousands of
years and their culture is still called Japanese culture instead of Chinese
culture. And, believe me, if you carefully study the history and philosophy of
China (with your own mind and dedication), you will be sure to find lots of
things(not everything) that you can be proud to be a Chinese.
                                

a biochemist not major in history.
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kenw@austlcm.sps.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:54:53 GMT
Organization: Motorola

In article <BzE0Jq.M5t@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.040343.15498@u.washington.edu> seb@stein.u.washington.edu (-s e b a s t i a n-) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec16.211706.17115@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>>>In article <Bz0s0s.Mq4@ecf.toronto.edu> huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING) writes:
>>>>>    You are the ones who are homeless. Been conquered and completely
>>>>>enslaved by the Japanese to the point of forgetting your real name,
>>>>
>>>>     Taiwan was surrendered to the Japanese in 1894.  We were not conquered.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, even more disgusting, Chinese lost to Japanese and gave up Taiwan.
>           *******************************
>          We finally won it back. No place for you. 
           ##                                   ###
           ##
         SHAME ON YOU! WHO are these "WE"? 

>>>I'm glad Taiwanese have a chance to experience another culture which is
>>>much better than the Chinese culture.
>>>
>>>Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: (Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme)
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:00:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.004358.1289@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>
>Some students of economic development attribute Taiwan's economic
>success to the political suppression.  They say that Taiwanese can
To most part, it is because of U.S.'s anti Communism compaign around. world.
U.S. had
60% of World GNP after WWII. U.S.'s help, both in term of finacial aid,
expecially opening up market contributed to the success of those nation/regions
 located at the
surroundings of Communism block. Bring up an old map(before 1990), start to
look from West of EuroAsian go to south then turn north, nations/regions on
the "free world" sides: Northen Europe("nuetral"), W-Germany, Italy, Greek,
turkey, Iran, Pakistan, India, HongKong, ASEAN, Twain, S-Korean, Japan. Those
nation that did well are most along this line. Ofcourse, other factors other
than in "free world" effected economy too, for eample, India used to be the
biggest receipian of U.S. aid, economy did not take off becasue of huge nation
the aid did not count much to it, and poor economic policy. The most benifited
and had considerable sizes are W-german, Japan, S-korean, Taiwan, three out of
those four had their nation split over communism and non-communism line.
People normally ephasis on sujective factors when they had success, and
emphsis on objective factors when they had failures. When quick often hear
that people contributed to their economic success to "HARD WOOOKING", probably
to certain extent it is true people need to work hard. they normally ignore
other external factors--LUCK which they had no conrol at all.
Stupidity with luck is more dangerous than stupidity without luck, because
the luck encourage people to have more stupidity.

>
>William Huang


Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16088 soc.culture.china:32452
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Prophecy
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:34:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <YCHEN.92Dec16130322@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu> ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen) writes:
>
>Me too. But don't forget that there are still two weeks to go. Things
>can go wrong at any time....... BTW, where are you, Mr. See Far?
>
Don't be so harsh on Mr. See Far!  I would be more generous and give
this prophecy a chance until the end of the lunar calendar.  After all,
the prophecy is based on an anciet poetry.  We shall have an answer in
one or two months.  Be patient! :)

William Huang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ccd@duann.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Duann)
Subject: Test
Keywords: n/a
Reply-To: duann@infonode.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville Al.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:52:01 GMT

This is a test

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: echang@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: the name?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 10:19:37 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec14.075126.6853@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:

> 
> the shadow is not from the name - roc.  the issue is still the same:
> change name can not advoid danger.  ros is roc, it is not part of prc.
> but, most of countries recognize (or i can say follow) prc's claim: taiwan
> is part of china. (gee! not roc)
> 
	You seems to understand the name won't affect the attitude of PRC,
so  why not use "Taiwan" as our national name?  It is less confusing;
we don't have to explain to everyone: "Well, ROC is not really China;
it is Taiwan."
 
> so, where does the shadow from?  not the name, but the place we live - the
> island.  i don't think mainland rulers will matter what we call ourselves.
> they will be always against us.  so, if you want to avoid the danger, the
> best way is moving away from taiwan, the place.  otherwise, the danger will
> be always there before our noses.
> 
	

> >	Right!  Just let people know we represent Taiwan other than
> >China is good enough for me.
> 
> then, i would rather use taipei as the name.  it makes me feel bigger,
> since i am from taipei.  another reason is taipei is the biggest city
> on the island.  it can well represent the island.  in fact, i think
> taipei is more famous than taiwan in the world.
> is republic of taipei good for you? 
> 
	You can propose any name you want to use.

> roc represents the people who live in taiwan now.  it is totally different
> from prc (i believe this is what you said - china) which controls the people
> who live in mainland now.
> 
> >> another question is if we change our national name, other countries are
> >> still away from us.  should we change another name and try again?  such
> >> as repulic of island?
> >> 
> >	No, We will work hard to improve our international status.
> 
> this is what our government is doing now.  it is not 'will', the future tense.
> it is 'now', the present tense.  changing our national name may make us have
> nothing to improve; that is, we will lose everything under our national
> name - roc.
>
	Your English is as good as mine.
	So, let me rephrase your statement: "we will lose everything under
our national name - ROC. "   I am proud of you.

> cs shao.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Re: Super Power in new century and Yellow Peril
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:35:40 GMT

In article <yQS=X_+@engin.umich.edu> chyang@periphrasis.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
>	Yes, but that was the Mongolians.  The Chinese are inherently
>isolationists and non-violent.

Americans find it difficult to tell the difference between Chinese and
Japanese, much less Chinese and Mongolian.

One possibility that worries me is this.  Right now, ABC's make up
less than 2% of the U.S. population, but at the same time about
the incoming freshman class of MIT and about 5 to 10% of many Ivy
League universities.  

Suppose twenty to thirty years from now, ABC's make up a significant
number of the American business and scientific elite (say 20-25%)
while making up a small amount of the total population (say 5%).
Suppose also that China becomes an economic superpower and the United
States goes into depression.

The would result in a rather dangerous situation for ABC's, and since
the United States has never encountered anything like this, I'm not
sure how it would react.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING)
Subject: Re: Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:06:53 GMT

In article <1gtgktINNksr@tamsun.tamu.edu> hung@ee.tamu.edu (Tzu-Chien Hung) writes:
>In article <BzH482.8pv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> achen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (positron) writes:
>|>
>|>The way I see it, China, Taiwan, and Japan were all on
>|>the about same level after the second world war.  All three
>|>entities had taken a beating and most of the industries
>|>were damaged.
>|>
>|>Japan was able to recover in less than 40 years.  Taiwan's
>|>"miracle" is actually nothing to be proud of because compared
>|>to Japan's recovery it is still second best.  China, on the
>|>other hand, severely messed up and lost a golden window of
>|>opportunity to catch up with the industrialized nations during
>|>the last 40 years.
>|>
>
>Do you know that Japan use less than 1% (2% laterly) of the money 
>in defense?

     Japan faces no military threat from anyone.

>Do you know Taiwan spend more than 50% (40% laterly) of the money
>in denfense?

     Taiwan has to spend that much money because of the military threat from
Mainland.

>With this in mind, Taiwan SHOULD be PROUD of being No. 2.

     Taiwan could have been No. 1.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: seb@stein.u.washington.edu (-s e b a s t i a n-)
Subject: Re: Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:44:24 GMT

	<homeless language deleted> :) seb

>I am ashamed of you, both you and your articals must come from a 
>Pig's Shit!
>y ou idiot narrow mind and... your mother must be fucked by pig.
>
>this is all I could answer you, fuck you!!!

	no need to start this again, alright.
	i guess u need to catch up your readings to SCT.
	it's over, it's all said and done and all explained.
	just read on your mails and shut the f*ck up. 
	
	a tasteless joke (maybe this belongs to alt.tasteless.jok :)

	a girl said to a man, "f*ck you!"
	the man replied, "thank you, girl!"
	-------------------------------------------------------------
	peace man. /seb@u.washington.edu
From: pychen@zirconium.berkeley.edu (Peter Y. Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Taiwanese female college student looking for pen pal(s)
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley ERL/Microlab
Distribution: w
NNTP-Posting-Host: zirconium.berkeley.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann())
Subject: We should use Chinese
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 12:09:36 GMT

Dear Netter:
R: 

  I think we Chinese should post articles in Cinese.
How about you?
  {Ho. A{O?

                              Steven Shann  W