HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts)
Subject: Re: P90 penetration
Keywords: P90 SS90 penetration kevlar
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:43:51 GMT


From boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts)

In article <Bsw0MA.Lv7@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN) writes:
>   Related to this, how many layers do normal body armour
> have?

Well my ``Bullet-Proof T-shirt'' has ``12 layes of Zeppel treated Kevlar 29''.
It claims to be Defeat Level 2A (stops most handgun rounds).


Boyd Roberts			boyd@prl.dec.com

``When the going gets wierd, the weird turn pro...''

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Autofocus and the Stealth
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:10:41 GMT


From carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)

In article <BtAJDu.Cuz@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, john@phobos.sscl.uwo.ca (John Tucker) writes:
> Given the Stealth's "stealth", how come a commercial autofocus system
> can "lock-on" for a sharp picture?

After a certain distance (not more than 10 or 20 meters) the incoming
light rays are essentially parallel for a normal camera focusing
system, and no more adjustment is needed.  So, unless the F117 was
flying _very_ low, it would still be in good focus even if the camera
did not detect it at all (autofocus generally uses the
maximum-distance focus setting if it can't "see" anything on the
reasonable assumption that you're taking a picture of something beyond
that distance).

Additionally, most auto-focus systems use ultrasound, not radar. Any
detection system close enough to find the F117 with ultrasound is
going to hear the engines anyway.

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: anasaz!anasaz.briand@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Brian Douglass)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:22:20 GMT


From anasaz!anasaz.briand@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Brian Douglass)




From anasaz!anasaz.briand@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Brian Douglass)

In article <1992Jul30.123936.16542@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> rholmes@dhvx20.csudh.edu writes:
>
>From rholmes@dhvx20.csudh.edu
>
>In article <1992Jul28.130025.24034@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger) writes:
>> 
>> From arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
>> 
>> Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition?
>
>Militaries make sabots out of depleted Uranium because it is a very dense 
>substance i.e. it weighs a lot for a given volume. A sabot is the part
>of a tank round that accutually penetrates the enemy tank. Most tank rounds
>are composed of a shell and the sabot. The two seperate after firing 
>thereby giving the sabot a higher velocity.
> 

A sabot is french for shoe.  The sabot is a shoe that surrounds the arrow
and is discarded upon exit from the barrel, hence the phrase "discarding
sabot."

-- 
"Fifty years after Waterloo Napoleon was as much a hero to English school 
children as Wellington.  How do we know our grandchildren won't idolize Von 
Hindenburg? If only we could learn to look on evil AS evil, whether it's clothed
in filth, monotony or magnificence." F. Scott Fitzgerald, This Side of Paradise
Brian Douglass		briand@anasazi.com 	602-870-3330 X657


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: DoD News 08/05/92 ... any interest?
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:53:25 GMT


From ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)

In article <BsKCMx.E0D@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil (CMSgt Mike Bergman) writes:
[transcript of press briefing deleted]

This is great primary source material! If the list doesn't mind, please
keep this sort of thing coming. The press gives such a limited and watered
down account of these things, having the official transcripts is very
useful.

Gary


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Don Johnson <johnson@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil>
Subject: Re: Phalanx Ammo
Organization: AMSAA/GWD, APG, MD 21005
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:46:51 GMT


From Don Johnson <johnson@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil>




From Don Johnson <johnson@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil>


In article <1992Jul29.130937.23116@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>
billb@is.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell) writes:

>|>From billb@is.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)

>|> Depleted uranium is hellishly expensive.

>The relative expense of DU is offset by having little further use,
>tungsten however does have other uses. 

This is not my understanding of the $ of DU.  Can someone knowledgeable
quote the material cost of DU vs Tungsten?  My impression was that DU was
dirt cheap (large supply and no other significant uses) but that the
machining costs were quite large obviously.

-- 
W. Donald Johnson

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: why velcrow insignia
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:19 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)




From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul30.125156.18302@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> carssdf!watson@rutgers.edu (- Self Empl. Sys.Integrator) writes:

>Why do air force flying uniforms seem to have all insignia 
>attached by velcrow?   Is this a laundry consideration?
>

Perhaps they have a common pool of uniforms that get passed 
around from person to person?




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Phalanx Ammo
Keywords: radioactivity toxicity
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:21:02 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)




From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul30.124027.16830@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes:

>On the other hand, the toxicity of soluble uranium compounds isn't safe to
>ignore.  In deep ocean, corrosion of spent rounds will generate soluble 
>uranium compounds and something is likely to absorb them.  If it hasn't been
>examined to death already, it would make a reasonable research project in
>environmental chemistry.

I don't think Uranium in the ocean will be a great problem, as the 
salts will be greatly diluted. As a matter of fact there are all kinds
of metals dissolved in seawater, including gold.  In the ppm or ppb 
range of course. Worse yet would be the cleaning up of old firing ran-
ges (now that many are to be closed) and shot-up tanks etc. The uranium
probably ends up as finely divided oxides (since it burns in air). 

>Other than that, the metallurgical properties of tungsten and uranium are both
>so unfriendly that I'd be surprised if the free-market delivered cost of 
>projectiles made from one was more than a factor of 2 different from the 
>other.  The processing should be much more expensive than the material, with
>a cost advantage to uranium, if there's a difference.  Some of the processing
>cost to enrich uranium may be getting charged against the waste product here,
>if the DU is really that expensive.


Tungsten is supposedly hard and brittle, therefore hard to machine. 
Uranium, like most heavy metals, is supposedly soft, and therefore 
also hard to machine. It is also pretty reactive with air, which 
means one probably has to machine it under some inert atmosphere
if one doesn't want the shavings to catch fire. 

I also imagine that the melting point might be low (I'll check the 
CRC tonight). If so, why not cast it in molds under an inert atmos-
phere?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: anthraxx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Stephen Vargo)
Subject: What is a sabot?
Summary: Depleted Uranium role in shells
Keywords: Depleted Uranium
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:24:50 GMT


From anthraxx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Stephen Vargo)




From anthraxx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Stephen Vargo)


In a letter dated 30 Jul 92, rhlomes at dhvx20.csudh.edu stated
(loose quote) "Depleted uranium is what militaries make sabots
out of." This is a false statement.
The sabot portion of a Discarding-Sabot tank shell is nothing 
more than a bore sizer for the dartlike penetrator. I would guess
that the sabot, which is a four piece assembly that breaks up 
when it leaves the barrel, is made of fiberglass or some other
low-cost material.
The depleted uranium is used in the penetrator, where the hyper-
dense material combined with ultrahigh speed makes a sh*tty day
for whatever is on the recieving end.

  My 2 pence worth,
                     Steve Vargo
 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Monday, 10 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:31:37 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Monday, 10 August, 1942

The Royal Navy begins a major mission to resupply Malta.  Code-named
Pedestal, the operation consists of a heavily-escorted 14-ship convoy 
from Gibraltar.

The German 6th Army reaches the outskirts of Stalingrad.

The Japanese cruiser Kako is torpedoed and sunk by an American submarine
off New Ireland.

Reporter: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (George Patterson)
Source - "Ghosts" calendar for 1992.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"You've got to steel yourselves to sacrifices ahead such as you have never
known before.  We have Valley Forges ahead of us, but beyond them lies
victory." - US Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: lm8637@tnessd.sbc.com (Lou Montgomery (214+464-1049))
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Southwestern Bell
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:56:39 GMT


From lm8637@tnessd.sbc.com (Lou Montgomery (214+464-1049))


In article <BsKCnp.E2s@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz) writes:
>
>From dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)
>
>Spiking a gun such as a cannon or artillery piece disables the
>gun, but how does a foot soldier spike a gun?

        One might pull the bullet, and remove the propellant. This
      could be followed by the insertion of a blasting cap, or possibly
      a small amount of C-4 explosive. The round would then be reassembled
      and placed back into the magazine (several rounds down,
      preferrably). The rifle would then be returned to it's original
      place, ready for the enemy to use.
        Actually, I'd rather take it out of the enemy's hand by adding
      it to my collection, however, surprises like this could be "fun".


                                           Later...
                                                   ...Lou #0083

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>
Subject: Re: Su-29
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:44:15 GMT


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>

In article <Bsvn3K.Dtn@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, 
Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz) writes:
 
> I have been looking through the information that I have, and have not
> been able to find the aircraft known as the Sukhoi Su-29. If someone
> out there with a Jane's could give me any information on it, or know's
> anything of it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


I believe that the Su-29 is the two-seat variant of the Su-26 
super acro plane. It's a prop driven radial engined monster of the
competition acro crowd. They are sold by an outfit in Florida.

	Regards,
	Rick

-------------------------
Rick Lafford			| "You draw the blood, we do the rest."
lafford@serum.kodak.com	| Kodak Clinical Products Division- Rochester, NY
============================================================================


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ASISKIND@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU
Subject: V22 Osprey/ F/A-18 Crashes
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:29:07 GMT


From ASISKIND@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU




From ASISKIND@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU

> From henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
> 
>>From twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix)
>>	Oh, well, seems Navy doesn't has much luck about testing
>>flight of their exp. aircraft.  Their F-14 crashed, (but
>>F/A-18 didn't), now it comes to Osprey...
> 
> A few crashes during development of an advanced military aircraft are not
> that uncommon.  You just don't hear about them much unless the program is
> controversial.  It's hard to make much progress without taking some risks.

Actually, the F/A-18 did crash during flight tests, or soon thereafter.  One of
the GE F404 engines blew up, taking the other engine with it and causing the
plane to crash.  I think it was on its way to an airshow at the time.
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium -- Hydrogen Bombs
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:44:42 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <Bt4oB5.1Kt@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Arthur Sparrendahl) writes:

>	I do not claim to have merlins expetise but according to 
>	'General and nonorganic chemistry' by Gunnar Ha"gg U-238
>	(in natural uranium) is vital in very powerfull temonucelars.


Yup.. I've seen the diagrams. You basically surround a ^235^U fission
bomb with a LiD or LiH jacket which will produce a fusion reaction. 
The fusion reaction produces a huge flux of _fast_ neutrons which are
capable of causing ^238^U to fission. 

^238^U doesn't fission in usual reactor conditions because the neutron 
fluxes are much less and slow neutrons predominate.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: military@cbnews.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 20 August, 1942
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:51:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From military@cbnews.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Thursday, 20 August, 1942

American Wildcat fighters and Dauntless scout bombers are deployed to
Henderson Field on Guadalcanal, flying off the escort carrier USS Long
Island.  A minor Japanese attack is launched against the Marines along 
the Ilu River.

Stephen Horthy, Vice-Regent of Hungary and a squadron leader on the Eastern
Front, is killed in action over the southern USSR.

A Catalina flying boat sinks the U-boat tanker U-464 southeast of Iceland.

Over 500 Allied bombers attack Rouen, France.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"If we are fighting for the right of people to maintain the government they
desire, we can convince the people of the world of our seriousness and good
faith only be requiring our ally, Britain, to grant immediate independence
to the 370,000,000 people of India." - Senator Robert Reynolds of North
Carolina
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Tuesday, 11 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:38:37 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Tuesday, 11 August, 1942

After a long and bitter fight, the Soviet Don River bridgehead at 
Kalach is eliminated.

Heavy Axis air raids hit the Pedestal convoy, and the carrier HMS Eagle
is sunk by the U-73.

Japanese forces slowly gain ground near Deniki, New Guinea.

The RAF launches a severe raid against Mainz.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"The hour of liberation of France is the hour when Germany wins the war."
- Vichy Prime Minister Pierre Laval
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: student3@sunrans.cern.ch (Student3)
Subject: Target Tracking
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:36:28 GMT


From student3@sunrans.cern.ch (Student3)


From student3@sunrans.cern.ch (Student3)

============================================================================

Dear Coleagues,

I would like to ask for your help for the following:

I am beginning my work in Particle Physics Research Field on a problems 
related to: 

  1. Multi-hypothesis tracking algorithms for target tracking.

  2. Using Hough-Transform for track-initialization.

Would you like please, to point out some of the most succesful
books, rewiev-papers and mostly Source-Code sources in any 
algorithmic language (Fortran, Pascal, C etc.), because I have
to concentrate mainly on their application on a specific data
from our experiments.

I am posting for a first time, so please excuse me if this is not the
right group, but I really believ that this is multy-disciplinary 
interest. 

Any comments, advices and orientations are your best for a beginner
like me.

Your answers you can send to my E-mail address:

          student3@sunrans.cern.ch

Sincerely thanks in advance.

Albena
============================================================================
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Use of snipers
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:46:03 GMT
Organization: :


From mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us

In article <Bt8GFu.Do3@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Tony.Buckland@mtsg.ubc.ca writes:
 
> From Tony.Buckland@mtsg.ubc.ca
> 
>  Regarding the use of snipers in the current conflicts in the former
>  Yugoslavia: is this the first time that sniping has formed such an
>  important part of ongoing assaults and sieges?  I think of sniping
>  as an auxiliary method, employing scarce experts, for keeping the
>  opposition harassed and heads-down, but in this case it seems to vie
>  with mortar fire as a primary method of inflicting casualties.
>  Please, oh please, no political comments. 

I think believe that, as in many other aspects of modern war, The War
Between The States (the American Civil War) anticipated the heavy use
of sniping.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Subject: Origin of Strategic Orders
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:54:26 GMT


From grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)



General Montogomery is supposed to have given the order:

"The Eighth Army will move in the direction of Tobruk".

Will someone please tell me if he did give this order
and in what context.

As a related question, how are strategic and tactical
plans derived from the strategic concepts of the
supreme commander. If General Montgomery did give the
order quoted above, it would not be physically possible
for him to consider the supply and movement of the
units which would carry out the order. How does a
supreme commander create a system which can translate
his necessarily conceptual orders into detailed 
action plans?

 
-- 
i.sinature

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 6 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:28:26 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)


Thursday, 6 August, 1942

The German Army takes Tikhoretsk and Armavir in the Kuban region.
Soviet resistance before Stalingrad is weakening under increasing German
pressure.

Churchill decides to place General Alexander in overall command of the
Middle East operations and to give General Gott leadership of the 8th Army.

Britain formally denounces the 1938 Munich Agreement.

The US War Production Board approves a plan to build 500 "Mars" flying
boats.  The 70-ton aircraft are to provide cargo service in an attempt to
lessen the impact of the U-boats.  In addition, and experimental 200-ton,
twin-hulled flying boat is to be built.  The aircraft are to be constructed
by Henry J. Kaiser, the shipbuilder.

The US Army announces the creation of two airborne divisions, the 82nd and
101st, and the joint American-Canadian First Special Services Force, which
is to serve as a "super-commando" unit.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"We've had air-borne units before but these are the first such entire
divisions.  They will move all their weapons and other equipment by planes
and gliders." - US Under-Secretary of War Robert Patterson
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)
Subject: Re: Surrender is Risky Business (was Re: Why execute spies?)
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:23:51 GMT


From anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)




From anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)


In <1992Jul29.130337.22487@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:


>Note the word "usually".  Surrendering to a small unit which is trying to
>move fast is a bad idea, because the cost to them of guarding a prisoner is
>potentially very high.

Interesting, in the battle of the bulge many American POWs were shot
by the SS.  Wonder if this was a case of the POWs surrending to a
rapidly moving units who did not have the resources to guard the
Americans ?
--
Anthony Lee (Time Lord Doctor) (These are my opinions !)
email: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au	voice:+(61)-7-3651204 FAX:+(61)-7-3651999
SNAIL: Department Computer Science, The University of Qld, 
       St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Use of snipers
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:46:36 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


From J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)

Tony.Buckland@mtsg.ubc.ca writes:

> Regarding the use of snipers in the current conflicts in the former
> Yugoslavia: is this the first time that sniping has formed such an
> important part of ongoing assaults and sieges?  I think of sniping
> as an auxiliary method, employing scarce experts, for keeping the
> opposition harassed and heads-down, but in this case it seems to vie
> with mortar fire as a primary method of inflicting casualties.
> Please, oh please, no political comments. 

I think we should make a clear distinction between 'snipers' who are
highly skilled and highly trained, and 'opportunist riflemen' who are
not. What the press calls a sniper, I would call a rifleman.

--Jonathan
Newsgroups: sci.military