From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re:  The Question of Culture
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 09:21:18 GMT

In article <Dec.26.23.14.35.1992.18028@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>In article <1hj5reINNie6@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> hermi@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi) writes:

I have no idea what this thread is trying to achieve but I'd like to put my
2 cents in anyway:

>One more time. I hate to give up on challenges.
>
>	**************
>From minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) Fri Dec 25 00:47:20 1992
>
>This is what we muslims must say at the end of our prayers,
>attahiyatu lillahi wa-s-salawatu wa-t-tayyibatu. assalamu alaika ayyohan-
>nabiyyu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. assalamu alaina wa ala ibad-illah
>wa-as-salihin. ash-hadu an la ilaha illa-llahu wa ash-hadu anna muhammadan
>abduhu wa rasuluh.
>allahuma salli ala muhammadin wa ala ali muhammad kama sallait ala ibrahima
>wa ala ale ibrahima innaka hamidun majid.
>rabbi ja'alni mukimu-s-salati wa minzuriyati rabban wa takabal dua rabana
>aghfirli wa li walidaya wa lil-muminina yauma yaqumu-l-hisab.
>assalam alaikum.
>
>From mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) Wed Dec 23 10:49:49 1992
>  You got the text wrong. It is:

I don't how you can call either texts wrong, there is no one right version.
Both are "du'aa" not quranic. The intent in the same even though they differ
in details.

>
>  "Allahumma Salli `ala MuHammas wa `ala aali MuHammad kama sallayta `ala aali
>   Ibraheem; wa baarik `ala MuHammad wa `ala aali MuHammad kama baarakta `ala
>   aali Ibraheem"
>
>  "God, bestow your praise on Muhammad and on the people of Muhammad like you
>   have bestowed your praise on the people of Ibrahim; and bless Muhammad
>   and the people of Muhammad like you have blessed the people of Ibrahim"
>	******************
>
>One interpretation says 'people' of Mohammad and Ibrahim. Another
>offered 'family'.  I now challenge you to explain what business
>Ibrahim has in these prayers.  Where is Jesus and where is Moses?

If the argument is about the meaning of "Aal" then the answer is family and
not people; as in Al Saud. It refers to the extended family rather than the
nuclear family.
If the argument is why Ibrahim is mentioned and not Moses and Jesus, then they
are both of Aal Ibrahim as they are descendants of Ibrahim.
Some how I get the feeling you resent Ibrahim being in the "du'aaa"!!!?

>> Arab never and will never think of Turkish domination as that of a 
>> foreign force, and I challenge you to produce a shred of evidence from histo-
>> rical books about that era.  Turks entered Arab politics because they have 
>> been there through out,  Since the Abbasides.
>
>Ajami means foreigner or not? If it means Persian, than better
>think up another word for Turks. They're not Persian.

Ajami originally  referred to Persians but came to mean non-arab just as
Feranji (french) is used to refer to westerners.

>
>	mark	
>
>   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    

Gee, I'm surprised you didn't complain about being called hubal :-)

Zeyd