HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:30:00 EST
From:         JENGLISH@GMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Fidel Castro

My Spanish prof at undergrad school went to the University of Cuba with
Castro.  She said that he was a couple of years older than her and even
then was quite the reactionary/revolutionary.  General opinion was that
he was nuts.

Johannah
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:27:00 EDT
From:         32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

c
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:32:24 -0400
From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

>Mario, I don't think you were around when Castro came to power.
>If you were, you would remember the executions which were so massive as
>to border on class-genocide.  They were performed in a soccer stadium,
>because that was the only holding pen/firing squad facility large enough

   Actualy,  Lenny, I was around at the time.  But about the time Fidel was
making one of his runs agains Fulgencio-baby I was making one of several runs
on the academic job market.

   I accept your reminder of Castro's bloodstains.  I carry no brief for
Castro.  In fact,  he may even have done (an almost equally bloody sin)
irreparable damage to the land and economy of Cuba.

   But Fidel's murderous behavior doesn't make a saint of Fulgencio. I
dislike all acts of oppression and whether the perpetrators are Left
Center or Right.  I have never resolved in my own mind the great
moral-philosophical question of moral judgment in history. Can there be any
revolution without bloodshed?  Do I approve of the American Rev.  Yes.  Do I
accept the cruel treatment and killings of Tories.  I waffle.

   In 1944 as a young high school graduate I marched down Broad St. in
Philadelphia,  never having shot a gun,  to go off proudly to go flight
fighter missions agains the evil-incarnate Nazis.  (I had to be content as a
flight engineer,  but they have fun bombing cities,  too.)  Did the dest
ruction of German cities contribute to victory over Evil?  I think so,  but
there are revisionists everywhere.  Was it morally justified.  When I saw
Dachau, I said yes.  When I sit in my study I waffle.

    At any rate I have a feeling of revulsion for the class oppression that
plagues so much of Latin America.  Class oppression backed by "the only THE
Church" (Lenny Bruce).  And often supported by the US.  I refuse to visit my
rich cousin in Caracas because she lives,  practically barricaded,  in a
ghetto of fellow well-to-do whites,   while most of Caracas wallows in less
than ideal conditions.   Less than a dozen years ago ruling class Venezuelans
were shooting upcountry Indians "for sport."

    Enfin,  may Latin America needed a Protestant Reformation in its history.
 Or at the very least a successor to Las Casas. As of last month Leonardo
Boff was out of play.

     Yours in the bonds of oppression,

                Mario (not the governor)
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From: res_hall_fac@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Family Tree Software
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:56:17 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University



Does anybody know of any programs for the Macintosh that will create family
trees?  I have found one that is hypercard based, but I do not care for it
very much.

Thanks!

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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:08:23 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI
              21 Jul 1992 18:21:52 BST from <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>

Christopher, the infection to death span for syphilis is on the order
of 30 years.  For AIDS it is about 8 years.

This would cause some difference in the impact of these two diseases
on our society.

Lenny
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:58:00 ADT
From:         Wally Mills <WMILLS@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA>
Subject:      Re. Dr. Townsend

On July 21st, this was posted:

> Wasn't the Townsend plan related to the Social Credit movement
> which inspired some of Ezra Pound's poetry and actually governed
> Alberta and British Columbia in the 50's under Prime Ministers Manning
> and Bennet (or perhaps vice-versa) who were both baptist ministers?

> Peter D. Junger

It is true that there have been two Social Credit parties which have
come to power in Canadian provinces as indicated above. However, only
the first, in Alberta in the 1930s (1937, I think), was really a
Social Credit movement. And yes, its founder, William Eberhard, was
a revival preacher, as well as a teacher
(I am not sure that he was officially a Baptist
but close enough) with a province wide radio program. Eberhard
used his radio program to launch his political crusade. He really
seems to have believed the theories of Major Douglas, the
founder of Social Credit. After he became premier, Eberhard hired
Douglas as a consultant to advise on implementing social credit.
There were several bills passed by the Alberta legislature to
implement features such as the 'social dividend' and to control
the banks. However, these were all declared *ultra vires* when
the federal government challenged it in the courts. Banking is a
federal jurisdiction. Subsequently, it ceased to be really actively
involved in implementing social credit. On his death, Eberhard was
succeeded, both on his relgious program and as premier of Alberta
by Ernest Manning.

   Actually, Manning much later in the 1950s after Alberta had become
relatively wealthy from oil (it is a Canadian Texas) did make a
per capita payment to all Albertans and called it a 'social
dividend. However, it was taken from tax revenues rather than being
a creation of purchasing power by the government as required by
Social Credit theory.

   The other party in British Columbia led by W.A.C ('Wacky')
Bennett never had much connection with Social Credit beyond the
name. At the end of W.W.2, the CCF (the social democratic party,
now called the New Democratic Party) was strong in B.C. and
appeared likely to win. What became known as Social Credit there
was really a coalition (containing both Liberals and Conservatives)
whose main reason for existence was to stop the 'socialists'. It
never made any pretence of trying to implement Social Credit.

   However, I do not know if Social Credit was ever espoused by
anyone down yonder in the US of A.

Wally Mills, St. Mary's Univ. Halifax, N.S.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:58:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:37:39 -0400 "MARIO S. DE PILLIS"
<AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU> said:

>   I just joined this list,  and I wonder if there is an American history list
> or a list on religion in American culture.

AMERCATH  AMERCATH@PURCCVM      History of Roman Catholicism in USA
HISTEC-L  HISTEC-L@UKANVM       History of Evangelical Christianity

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:57:51 -0400
From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

>I wouldn't think that any right-thinking cuban would wanbt to come to this
>land of discrimination and racial hatred.  After all, we are the pits.

>Imagine having to take your pay home in an envelope, and then having to
>pay it back to the government in nasty old taxes.  Who wants taxes?  Why
>not stay in the workers' paradise and enjoy the good life?

>Lenny

   I don't mind sarcasm as a rhetorical device,  but it is not always
precise. (Nor am I,  nor e-mail).  If  Lenny means that the Cubans fled to
the US  because they loved its freedom,  I find some complications in that.
Maybe it's a good base to regain their old privileges as the dominant,
mostly white,  class.
    I don't want to be understood as defending Castro.  But from what I've
read about the suffering and corruption and torture under Batista,  Castro
was a breath of fresh air. If he had a rational economic policy,  if he had
been able to get free of the Soviets,  if he did not have to cope with the
economic blockade of the world's greatest economic superpower,   if,  if,
if---well he might have had some success.  But only in the short run.
    Cuba might gain prosperity as the 51st state and as a restored gambling
mecca.  I guess as historians (I am not a Latin Americanist) we might best
look at him as yet another example of failed *caudillismo*.
     Just my thought,  folks.  I don't have a pipeline to truth in foreign
policy.   --Mario S. De Pillis
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:38:00 EST
From:         JFOX@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU
Subject:      Re: Oral history MA or PhD?
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

I don't believe that Columbia offers a degree in oral history, but it does
 offergraduate courses in conjunction with the History Department.  But you
 still
should give a call.  The director of the Oral History Research Office is Dr.
Ronald Grele.  His phone number is (212)-854-2273.  He is the former president
of the national Oral History Association.
You should also research back issues of the OHA's Newsletters (any good
 university library should have them).  Frequently when an institution
 introduces a
new oral history program they will sent an announcement.
Two other people who might be able to help you are Dr. Carl Ryant, Director
of the Oral History Center at the University of Louisville:  (502)-588-6674
Fax (502)-588-5682; EMAIL CGRYAN01@ULKYVM.BITNET.  Dr. Thomas L. Charlton,
Institute for Oral History, Baylor University:  (817)-755-3437; EMAIL
CHARLTON@BAYLOR.BITNET.  Hope that this helps.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:53:50 EDT
Reply-To:     junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
From:         "Peter D. Junger" <junger@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: re: Dr. Townsend
Comments: To: history%rutvm1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu

Wasn't the Townsend plan related to the Social Credit movement
which inspired some of Ezra Pound's poetry and actually governed
Alberta and British Columbia in the 50's under Prime Ministers Manning
and Bennet (or perhaps vice-versa) who were both baptist ministers?

Peter D. Junger

Case Western Reserve University Law School, Cleveland, OH
Internet:  JUNGER@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.Edu -- Bitnet:  JUNGER@CWRU
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:01:57 -0500
From:         mlove@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI
Comments: To: History <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

>  Of course if the virus can mutate to a form in which it is
>more easily transmissible -e.g. a respiratory form - then we may face
>extinction.

Even the bubonic plague, which had a respiratory form, did not lead to
extinction.

Sharon D. Michalove
Academic Advisor, Department of History, UIUC
309 Gregory Hall, 810 South Wright Street
Urbana, IL  61801
217-333-4145
mlove@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

******************************************
"There is, indeed, no single quality of the cat
 that man could not emulate to his advantage."
        	       	       	       	   Carl van Vechten
*******************************************
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:51:38 EDT
From:         "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: AIDS and CAWKI

   In response to Carol Wheeler I suggest that the Normal man, by rule of
thumb, is most easily found by ascertaining which men are married. All known
research has ascertained that marriage does great things for men, and that the
effect does not attenuate with repetition. Men who dislike being married are,
if not insane, then certainly fools. The effects of marriage on women is at
this time CLASSIFIED.

   Sociologically, a Normal man is a man who is not Deviant. Our Deviance
people are in Europe at this time, which is Normal, and they all agree that
whatever a Deviant is, I'm a Deviant; also, that if you have not categorized
a man as a Deviant within 5 or 10 seconds of initial contact, this means he
is Normal, provisionally. Beyond this there is no agreement since the idea of
Deviance was invented by Durkheim, who contradicted himself. The existence of
Normals and Deviants is taught in the third lecture of Intro Sociology, the
second lecture having been devoted to Values. Values are much in the news
today, some say this is good for the sociology business, others disagree.
Values were invented by Max Weber as spiritual analogues of the prices in
mone6 of such Things as turnips or the bones of Pomeranian grenadiers used
to make soup as quoted in the marketplace but Values being spiritual refer to
abstractions. So unlike prices you cannot measure them. What you can measure
are attitudes. What attitudes are is defined in five mutually contradictory
definitions in standard use which everyone agrees to leave unreconciled, then
forgets. So much for values and attitudes. Deviance works something like that.

   To Clinical Psychology Normal means you can do Normal Occupational Function-
ing. I am right now on MACH23 and there is a Clinical Psychologist on MACH24.
To me he looks Normal which makes him a Normal man and to Them he must be
Normal because They do not allow wackos in the Clinical Program. He cannot tell
that I am Disordered because he cannot tell that I am not here for the money
so cannot determine whether I was or was not on time.

   Does that answer your question?

DAF
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:09:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:48:44 EDT Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET> said:
>
> I always thought that Cuba would make a wonderful 51st state.

That is precisely what the Ostend Manifesto proposed.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:38:53 BST
From:         Christopher Currie <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Saint Jeanne

My understanding of the authoritarian/totalitarian distinction as
expounded by Kirkpatrick was that authoritarian regimes were
'temporary'; they would eventually collapse or be removed, so it
was worth putting up with them if the alternative was a 'Totalitarian'
regime, because totalitarian regimes led to a permanent
change of society in favour of tyranny. The Communists would never give up
power.

That view of course seems nonsense since 1989. But it didn't seem quite so
silly at the time.

Christopher
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:50:47 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
              22 Jul 1992 15:35:00 CDT from <TA0WXS1@NIU.BITNET>

I wouldn't think that any right-thinking cuban would wanbt to come to this
land of discrimination and racial hatred.  After all, we are the pits.

Imagine having to take your pay home in an envelope, and then having to
pay it back to the government in nasty old taxes.  Who wants taxes?  Why
not stay in the workers' paradise and enjoy the good life?

Lenny
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:48:44 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
              22 Jul 1992 15:33:00 CDT from <TA0WXS1@NIU.BITNET>

Take the high ground, Bill.

I always thought that Cuba would make a wonderful 51st state.

And all of those cigars!

Lenny
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:33:00 CDT
From:         Bill Sjostrom <TA0WXS1@NIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

>Received: (from UICVM for <HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET> via BSMTP)
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> (UCLA/Mail V1.410 M-RSCS2884-2884-32); Wed, 22 Jul 92 14:43:59 CDT
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>Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:37:39 -0400
>Reply-To:     History <HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET>
>Sender:       History <HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET>
>From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
>Subject:      Re: Anarchism
>Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
>To:           Bill Sjostrom <TA0WXS1>
>
>I was relieved to see Denis Paz set for some elementary principles of foreign
>policy analysis for Lenny,  noting ,  with wonderful forbearance that US
>foreign policy has not always been altruistic,  especially with regard to
>A couple of days ago Bush said that as president he will stand on the
>free soil of Cuba.  He didn't say it;  he crowed it. Perhaps we will enjoy
>another altruistic restoration of democracy and freedom as in Grenada, Iraq,
>and Panama.

And about time too.
                Bill Sjostrom
                Northern Illinois University
                TA0WXS1@NIU
P.S.  Don't worry Lenny, I'm still here covering your flanks.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:34:22 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anarchism
              21 Jul 1992 20:57:00 EDT from <DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET>

Perhaps you think that the Cubans would have prefered to remain in the
Spanish "sphere of influence"?

The mean old imperial americans really did do nasty things to the Cubans
when they forced them to break away from the sweet Spaniards, didn't they?

I continue to forget that we are the world's villians, and that the
guys with firing squads working overtime are wearing the white hats.

You will have to forgive me.

Lenny


P.S.  Do you ever step down from the Culpa USA cross?
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:10:00 EDT
From:         32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Meet John Doe

Mike,
        The Peter Seller's film bears the same title as the novel BEING
THERE.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carol E. Wheeler                   | Oh life is a wonderful cycle of song,
                                   | A medely of extemporania;
Department of History              | And love is a thing that can never go
The Catholic University of America |                                 wrong,
Washington, DC 20064               | And I am Marie of Rumainia.
32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET               |       --Dorothy Parker
______________________________________________________________________________
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From: LHNELSON@UKANVM.BITNET (LHNELSON --UKANVM)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: RE: Fidel Castro on Racism
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:21:09 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hello, Rich;

True, and well-said. My point is not that race or blood or caste is per se a
determinant of character or personality, and so I am not really concerned
whether or not such a case can be argued. Let us grant, however, that
ethnicity -- involving as it does matters of stature, skin color, diet,
language, social values, and so forth -- effectively distinguishes one group
from another. That distinction is the basis of racism, and it is often a
factor, primary or purely rhetorical, in social strife.

Your characterization of Buthelezi is quite correct, but you ignore the
rhetoric with which he regales his followers. And please don't say that it's
_only_ rhetoric, since rhetoric instills belief, and belief leads to action. I
would qualify my statement, but repeat, that _many_ Zulus feel that they would
fare poorly under a Bantu regime.

Your point about the heterogenity of the Bantu is quite correct, but it is
equally true that Bantu are distinct from Zulu in language, custom, and
historical tradition. And a part of that tradition is subjection of Bantus and
overlordship of Zulus. It is also correct that the White population of the
United States is heterogenous, but the history of its relationship with a
Black minority is no different for that fact.

It is also true that the White government and its sympathizers both exacerbate
and emphasize the danger of ethnic violence, but there are also some, like
myself, who hold no truck with the South African government who are concerned
about the ethnic undercurrents that underlie much of the political strife
there. Even self-serving statements can be true. Churchill argued that Britain
should not leave India because of the ethnic and religious violence that would
"inevitably erupt." That was propaganda to support Britain's maintaining
control of the Raj. The consequences he predicted, however, were quite true.

I, too, hope that I have not, and am not, offending anyone. I do believe,
hoever, that historians have the obligation of considering every factor that
comes into play, and that it is too simple to decide a priori that one factor
or another, such as political or economic, is decisive, and that all other
considerations are derivative, illusory, or inconsequential.

Lynn

Lynn_Nelson
Department of History
University of Kansas
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 15:23:28 EDT
From:         Leonard Abbey <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Aaron Burr....Part I

Pat, I did not read your (apparently interesting) posting on Burr becasue
it was labeled Part 1 of 2.  I held it im my mailer, where it still
rests, while awaiting the arrival of Part 2.

I will go back and see if it is, in fact, the complete story.

Lenny
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:48:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anarchism

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:58:00 EDT JOSE said:
>
> The Platt Amendment, which authorized US reintervention in Cuba in
> certain situations, was abrogated in 1934, not by Castro, though Cuban
> dislike of "Plattism" as a legal reality before 1934 and a political
> and cultural style after, no doubt aided Castro's rise to power and
> continues to influence Cuban attitudes towards the US.
>
My colleague Joe Arbena, who is a Latin American historian, is of
course correct.

The point that I wanted to make was that the United States
historically has felt it justifiable to intervene in the
affairs of Latin American states, in a way that reminds
me of the (now-defunct) Brezhnev Doctrine.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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