From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.introduction,comp.sys.amiga.marketplace,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 15 Nov 92 17:46:49 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

Wow, this thread is in a lot of newsgroups...

All right, let me try to clean up a few impressions about AMOS (some right,
some wrong).  First of all, by default AMOS is not "system-compliant."  Yes,
when you run an AMOS program, it will take over most system calls because
AMOS uses its own intuition routines.  I agree that this is a Very Bad Thing.
However, in some respects it is necessary to make possible a lot of things 
that AMOS can do so easily.  Now, what I would like to see is a version of
AMOS that WILL let you do everything on the workbench if you want, instead
of forcing you to use your own private screen.

BUT, it IS POSSIBLE to throw all your stuff on to workbench/cli windows if
you want.  By being able to make every system call in the universe, you CAN
set up a WB window or output to CLI or whatever.  The problem is that since
AMOS doesn't let you do it normally, it takes much extra programming skill
(not to mention a list of library offsets, etc.) to be able to do this.

The problem is that since AMOS is not "system-compliant" by nature, and that
making it so would involve so much extra effort by the programmer, most AMOS
programs you will ever see will not be system-compliant.  And, as it turns
out, if you really wanted system-compliancy, well you'd be better off
writing it in C anyway.  But if you don't know C, learning it on the Amiga
is probably one of the worst things you could do because the size and the
complexity of system calls.  And as for any programs being 100% system-
compliant anyway, the only program that I know of that is 100% 2.04 style-
guide right-out-of-the-book is Term 2.4.  There may be others that I'm
not aware of, so please enlighten me if you feel like it.  Besides, AMOS
is fully multitasking (even if it does do it a little differently) which
is more than I can say for a lot of programs.

The basic appeal for AMOS is that it lets new people to programming do 
quite frankly amazing things on their Amiga with not that much effort at
all.  People who use AMOS will be able to make things happen that I daresay
a lot of fledgling Amiga C programmers will only be able to dream about
doing.  And keep in mind that AMOS was developed in Europe, where things
are a bit different.  Since in the US people are more power-computing
oriented, those of us that actually DO own Amigas have 5 megs of RAM, a
100 M or so hard drive, and fast processors.  The typical machine in
Europe (where by far the vast majority of Amigas exist) is a 500 with 2
floppy disk drives.  So if you have a program written that takes over your
system, well, for probably 75% of Amiga owners, it doesn't matter anyway!
This is not a problem with AMOS per se, but just the nature of the Amiga
community.

As for certain posted problems relating to AMOS:

Screen blankers:  I use about 5 different blankers on my 2.04 3000 Amiga.
When I am editing an AMOS program, the mouse pointer will disappear if I
forget to turn my blanker off because blankers tend to turn off sprites
when they blank the screen to get rid of the "normal" workbench mouse.
However, I have never had a COMPILED program have its sprites turned off
by a blanker.  And I have never even HEARD of an entire AMOS screen being
blanked by some blanker.  More than likely, it's a problem with the 
blanker itself.  But of course, the cause is with AMOS taking over mouse
calls so when you move the mouse on an AMOS screen, it doesn't count on
anything on the WB side.

Working on the 4000:  I have no clue about this one.  But I tell you
what:  If you want a program to try, try Syzygy (yes, that's the one
that I wrote).  It was written on my 3000/25 under 2.04, and it works
damn well on my computer.  That is also probably your best bet program
under AMOS that might work on a 4000.  So let me know, OK?  :)

I hope Europress or whoever it is now is listening to this...

later,
keefer
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|  Do your  |My power is beyond your understanding!|
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....|  eyes  a  |        - Skeletor                    |
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Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos