HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hacker@access.digex.com (Dark Hacker)
Subject: Upgrading The Fortress with an Ethernet board!
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:51:59 GMT


Here at The Fortress Of Computation I am planning to upgrade my
communications server with an Mac ethernet board.  Oooohhh.... that has
everyone shaking in their boots, I know.  But the question is.... are
all Mac ethernet boards basically the same?  Should I go for the
cheapest boards or are there any boards with software bundled in that I
should look at?  Or does the quality vary so I should maybe pay a
little more for a particular brand?

I plan to network my IIcx comm server (Black Star) with my NeXT (Black
Silicon) via 10baseT and then obtain software that will let me talk to
the NeXT via file share AND a terminal program (like NCSA telnet?)
THROUGH the server via Appletalk and ARA.  So we get something that
looks like this:

MacPlus <------- AppleTalk -------> Mac IIcx <------- ether -------> NeXT
                                        ^
                                        |
                                       ARA
                                        |
                                        ^
                                    PowerBook

With this setup I hope to talk to the NeXT terminal interface from ANY
Mac as well as share everybody's file systems.  Cool huh?

Black Silicon SHALL RULE!

- Hacker
-- 
010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101
Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation
Phone: (703) 356-6514    Internet: hacker@black-silicon.mclean.va.us
"I am the very instantiation of object oriented evil!"
From: aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D.)
Subject: Re: MacTCP license fees & Eudora
Reply-To: aland@cs.brandeis.edu
Organization: As little as possible
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:51:41 GMT

weave@apache.dtcc.edu (Ken Weaverling) writes:

>If it is true that the new MacTCP can be had for $25, as a previous poster
>mentioned that he just got it for, then what is the big deal?

The big deal is that Apple announced that distribution was changing
_before_ setting the changes & announcing the new policy.  So 'rampant
speculation' of the sort happening on the net is mandatory. :)

>It is clear that Apple has reduced system prices by more than $25 per
>machine, so whenever you buy a computer, just throw in an extra $25 for
>MacTCP. 

No problem, except that I haven't seen any conformation of the $25
price.  If anyone has information relevant, please post (or e-mail me,
as my boss has me trying to track down this information anyway...).  I
need the order number & who to order it from.  Eg. APDA, Apple, HEPP,
etc.

	-=Alan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: <none>
From: rgbrib@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Bribiescas)
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:16:06 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: bryan@mttam.com (Bryan Van Vliet)
Subject: VersaTerm PRO + AFP Server = Problems. Solutions?
Organization: San Francisco, Ca
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:29:55 GMT

I am trying to install VersaTerm PRO on my AFP Server (Netware for Macintosh
Version 3.011 on top of Netware 3.11) so that multiple users can run off of
the server. Everything works fine if there is only one user running VersaTerm
PRO at a time. However, if the second user tries to start VersaTerm the 
Macintosh locks up and has to be restarted. I have set all of the files to
Read-Only and shareable on the server and have placed a copy of the vtpro_data
files on the local hard disk.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any help.

- Bryan

--
Bryan Van Vliet
bryan@mttam.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Wanted: Zmodem file transfer tool
From: dskeeler@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Dennis S. Keeler)
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:56:15 -0500
Organization: Miami University

	Does anyone know of a PD/Shareware ZModem file transfer tool which is
compatible with VersaTerm?
	Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dennis S. Keeler                |  "Common sense is that thin veneer of
Miami University                |    prejudice we acquire before the
DSKEELER@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu  |    age of 17." - Albert Einstein
DSKEELER@miavx1.bitnet          |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: CSP1DWD@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (CSP1DWD)
Subject: Re: GV PowerPort Gold & SLIP: poor performance!
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:43:31 PST

In article <0106200F.jaghm9@wilhelm.infoserv.com>,
wilhelm@infoserv.com (John MacWilliamson) writes:

>      I have found that with the following modem initialization string,
>that I get the same performance out of my PowerPort Gold as I get
>out of USR Sportster 14,400;  1600 CPS transfers.
>
>AT&F\N7\Q3\J0

Humm? I'll give it a try tomorrow when I get ahold again of the test
PB-170 I was playing with... in contrast the Versaterm Slip utility
drives the GV PowerPort modems with the following settings,

        AT \J0 %C1 \N4 \G0 \Q3

what's the \N7 setting?

-- Denis 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Rick Boebel <boebel@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: X Window System ARA Server? - PlanetX
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7365BD43D01B0E0@boxorain.sob.tulane.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-4998]: boxorain.sob.tulane.edu
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 09:58:44 GMT
Organization: Freeman School of Business
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:59:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.054114.24634@netcom.com> Joel Burke
Truher, truher@netcom.com writes:
>Is there an X program which acts as a display server for
>ARA?  Is there some other pair of local X display server and
>remote Mac client?  It seems like this would be a pretty
>straightforward (if little-used) program . . .

I've been told there is a program called PlanetX that is both a
client/server for the Mac.  However I know nothing about it,
does anyone out there have any info?  Specifically price,
source, and efficacy?      Thanks, Rick Boebel
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Distribution: world
From: Darren_E._Tong@fourd.com
Organization: 4th Dimension BBS
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 12:34:49 EST
Subject: Re: DoveFax+ and DA's

Dan- which version of dovefax+ are you running and which of faxmanager???
I am running sys7 and the latest 2.03 f the fax software. is that what you are
talkingg about or the actual voice software?

- BulkRate... getting slower everyday!-darren_tong@fourd.com

********************************************************************
System: fourd.com                                Phone: 617-494-0565
Cute quote:  Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.misc
From: cld@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christopher L. Davis)
Subject: Quadra/MacII differences: Users&Groups
Keywords: Users,Groups
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:03:00 GMT

Hello.  A month or so ago I was having a problem with Users and Groups.
	I wanted a way for someone to be able to install a large number
	of users on a machine without having to know all the passwords.
	Someone on the net responded with at great solution that has 
	worked wonderfully up to now.  I copy the U&G preferences file 
	to a floppy and use it to install.  The difference is that I tried
	to install my users on a new Quadra 950.  No go on the Quadra.  The
	file moves acroos just fine (either via floppy or ethernet), I re-
	boot the Quadra, then make minor changes in the U&G control panel,
	and when I reboot again, I get a corrupted U&G preferences file.
	I tried just booting the machine twice after moving  the file 
	from floppy, same thing.
	Why would the Quadra boot once with no problems, but on the 2nd
	and later boots have problems?  I also created the U&G file on the
	Quadra, and tried to install back on to a Mac II class machine.  
	The same problem occurs in that direction also, so the problem is
	bi-directional.  I have worked around the problem by putting a copy
	of the Mac II version and the Quadra version on the floppy, but I
	really want to know why this happens.  BTW, the File sharing extension
	I am using in all cases is 7.0.2, and this is System 7.0.1 *.  In-
	stallation of the Quadra file on the Quadra works fine, as does
	installation of the Mac II file on Mac II machines, so the process
	still works as long as the machine class is the same.  Thanks
	for any ideas or help in advance.  Any ideas on this Apple?  My dealer
	is as stumped as I am.
Thanks again.
Chris Davis  cld@wucs1.wustl.edu
From: dobrien@sybase.com (Dave O'Brien)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Appleshare network slowdown
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:37:38 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1992Nov9.174407.23654@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Cecelia A. Dorn,
cad0410@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>We have a user center utilized by faculty and students offering
>an Appletalk network of 15 macs (overseen by a MacII fileserver: 40M
>hard drive--approx. 12M free).  Recently we have noticed a slow down
>in network performance and I was wondering if anyone out there has any
>suggestions on diagnostics/optimizations/etc that can be done.  I'm
>particularly interested in procedures and if necessary, in software
>(product names please) that we can purchase to help evaluate the
>net's performance.  Do you think this problem could be as simple

If you're using System 7 file-sharing, turn it off whenever you don't
need it. It slows down overall system performance, even when no one is
accessing your machine.

Hope this small bit helps...
From: dobrien@sybase.com (Dave O'Brien)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Nuntius v1.1.1 Questions
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:34:59 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1992Nov9.140029.2986@paladin.american.edu> Mathew L. Spolin,
ms5477a@auvm.american.edu writes:
>1)  Is anyone else using this program?
Yup. Several Mac users here (Sybase's Toronto Tech. Center) are using it
and loving it.
We're still using 1.1 though, haven't seen 1.1.1 yet on the Mac BBSs.

>2)  If so, can you recommend a good monospaced editor for it?
I'm just using TeachText, which is stripped down, usable, small, and
suits me for this kind of simple editing. You might want to try one of
the better shareware/free editors like Edit II (I think that's the name).
Try any Mac BBS for editors.

>3)  Is there any way to restrict how large the "group indexes" that
>the app builds in the system folder become?  We're pushing 2 megs here...
If you find out, *please* let me know...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: sdorner@qualcomm.com (Steve Dorner)
Subject: Re: SLIP - Which product is best.
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:12:05 GMT

In article <49587@shamash.cdc.com>, ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
wrote:
> My ARA options are slowish but corporate dial-ins are v.32bis so I prefer
> them, and we have SLIP running. So I want a MacTCP LAP SLIP extension. As
> far as I know, HydePark, Intercon and Synergy all have such product,
> though perhaps Synergy's is bundled with Versaterm.

It is.  I've used VT SLIP (Synergy) and MacSLIP (HypePark).  They both work
fine.

VT SLIP is easier to configure, but MacSLIP is more flexible about
connections.

MacSLIP is cheaper, but VT SLIP comes with VersaTerm and several other
things, including an FTP server and time server/client.

You can't go wrong with either one.

I have no experience with InterSLIP.

> work invisibly with MacX, Eudora, Nuntius, NCSA Telnet.

Yep.

--
Steve Dorner, Qualcomm, Inc.
Why does Apple want to eliminate cheap MacTCP applications?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: sdorner@qualcomm.com (Steve Dorner)
Subject: Re: MacTCP port number allocation
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:00:37 GMT

In article <eric-171192144909@cider.cs.ruu.nl>, eric@cs.ruu.nl (Eric
Nieuwland) wrote:
> Our system administrators have configured our gateway to pass only packets
> directed to ports with numbers < 5000. (For security reasons, they say)

I would be really interested in what they think this accomplishes.  I could
use a good laugh.
--
Steve Dorner, Qualcomm, Inc.
Why does Apple want to eliminate cheap MacTCP applications?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: vthrc@mailbox.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: Network clock sync (without Unix host) ?
Organization: Vision, Touch & Hearing Research Centre
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:17:21 GMT

In article <BxnyJ2.1MM@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes:
>I am looking for a utility to synchronize the clocks of multiople
>Macs on a network to a server's clock.  I looked at the various Mac FTP
>sites and they only seem to have Unix Time clients and the program to synch
>to an atomic clock.
>
>I need a 100% Mac-based solution.
well we are using the Mac version of the Timelord server. Use archie to search
for something like "[Tt][iI][mM][eE][lL][oO][rR]" but quite a few of these will
be for the UN*X server. Normally these filenames will have .shar in them. You
also need the client which is called Tardis, but it will probably be packed
with Timelord.
    Timelord keeps a log file and I wrote some macros in the Igor
graphing/analysis program to plot these.

cheers,
X500: @c=AU [I'm about to update VTHRC entries, soon...]
       @o=University of Queensland
        @ou=Physiology and Pharmacology Department
         @ou=Vision Touch and Hearing
          @cn=Danny Thomas
           @rfc822Mailbox=vthrc@cc.uq.oz.au
From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: MacTCP&7.1 - short term solution?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:35:46 EST
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.
Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v2


In article <1992Nov13.190047.18307@daimi.aau.dk> (comp.sys.mac.comm), lhp@daimi.aau.dk (Lasse Hiller|e Petersen) writes:
> and
> c) If a lot of people do this, and get bad results, and thus blame Apple,
> will Apple then change policy?

Yes! Maybe a *million* support calls about MacTCP not working!
Maybe that will convince Apple it is not worth the effort.....


tim endres - time@ice.com

Register your company in the Internet Business Pages!
 ...send email to "ibp-info@msen.com" for details...

USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: ron@rivm.nl (Ron Roozendaal)
Subject: macTCP 1.1.1 problems
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Reply-To: ron@rivm.nl
Organization: RIVM
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:55:59 GMT

Hi all,

My TCP1.1.1 has just been delivered (yes, it's expensive, and no, old site
license don't count anymore..).

I haven't got it running on the two machines I tried (a Quadra 700 with A/UX
and a FX). All programs using MacTCP (like eudora, TheNews etc.) don't run
anymore. The computer just restarts!

Any clues? Pplease respond via e-mail. I will summarize.


Thanks in advance!


Ron 



____________
  Ron Roozendaal (ron@rivm.nl)
  Senior Consultant
  National Institute on Public Health and Environmental Protection (RIVM)
  Informatics Service Centre
  Postbox 1, 3720 BA Bilthoven, the Netherlands
  Tel. ++31 30 742790, Fax. ++31 30 282 316
From: tmplee@TIS.COM (Theodore Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Why is NFS "too slow" over SLIP?
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:35:02 GMT
Reply-To: tmplee@TIS.COM
Organization: Trusted Information Systems


In my recent inquiries about Mac telecomm software I have been told by
several people that one does not want to run NFS over a SLIP
connection (even at a T1 speed!).  I must not understand something --
but then I've never looked at the NFS RFC.  Why should file transfers
using NFS be significantly slower than with ftp (or even a raw kermit
over the same phone line)?

Ted Lee <tmplee@tis.com>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: michele@apex.yorku.ca (Michele Marques)
Subject: Re: XWindows on the Mac???
Organization: York University, Help Services, CCS
	<1992Nov13.152014.2718@linus.mitre.org>
	<1e0rv5INNi05@transfer.stratus.com>
	<1992Nov13.225208.18364@linus.mitre.org>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:56:35 GMT


In article <1992Nov13.225208.18364@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:

   > > I have a problem when I run MacX.  It complains about the incorrect
   > > "connetion tools".  Could you tell me what kind of connection tool I have
   > > to install and where to get it?
   > 

   I have MacTCP, but I do not have A/UX.  Is it the problem?


There are two separate versions of MacX: one for A/UX and another for
MacOS.  I use the MacX for MacOS and one of the installation disks was
not supposed to be used with A/UX -- I presume that the inverse is also true.

On another note: for those considering non-apple X products, I have
heard that MacX is the only X product for MacOOS, that the others only
work with A/UX.  If this isn't so any longer, feel free to correct me.


--
Michele Marques                      | UUCP: ....!utzoo!yunexus!michele
Computing Help Services              | Internet: michele@apex.ccs.yorku.ca
Computing & Communications Services  | Bitnet:   michele@yuorion
York University                      | Voice:    +1-416-736-5800
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: michel@cst02.segin.com (Michel Pollet)
Subject: Re: URGENT: How to DISABLE Apple double in NFS/Share
Reply-To: michel%cst02.segin.com (Michel Pollet)
Organization: Segin, Groupe Axime
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:33:51 GMT

amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:
>michel@cst02.segin.com (Michel Pollet) writes:
>> [description of problem with NFS/Share]

>Folks, we do have a complete technical support department that can help you 
>with this sort of problem.  The phone number is in our manuals, but I include 
>it below for anyone who has misplaced it.  Most of our customers generally 
>find that calling us is more effective than sending questions about our 
>products all around the world on Usenet :)...


>Amanda Walker

	Thank you Amanda (I'm the original poster of the article), but
	i'm IN FRANCE, and I'm paid for installing your sofware by a
	customer of mine, and I don't think he'll paid my phone bill. 
	By the way, the previous article was ALSO mailed to
	comments@intercon.com . I know that the technical support is 
	good, because it had helped me before, but this time (ONE week)
	I had'n received a reply. (The problem was tagged URGENT) it still
	is urgent. I had HACK the existing software to make the solution
	work.

	Michel
-- 
- Michel Pollet: michel@segin.com (Office),michel@trantor.fr.mugnet.org (Home)-
-- Your conscience never stops you from doing anything.  It just stops you   --
-- from enjoying it.                                                         --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: lord@andersen.uucp (Bob Lord)
Subject: Telnet2.5 from LocalTalk (esp. PowerBooks)
Keywords: Telnet, LocalTalk, PowerBook
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:53:53 GMT

How does one get Telnet 2.5 to work from PowerBooks on LocalTalk?  I have a
GatorBox to connect my LocalTalk and Ethernet networks.  I presume that there
is are several config.tel changes.

Thanks for the insights,
Bob
-- 


Bob Lord					100 South Wacker Room 932
Network Manager					Chicago IL, 60606
From: 128a-3fq@e260-2a.berkeley.edu (Bob C. Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Supra ROM/ID Upgrade
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:02:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-2a.berkeley.edu

In article <98760@netnews.upenn.edu> msung@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Michael L Sung) writes:
>
...

>2)  How does Caller ID work?  Do you have to leave the computer and modem
>and appropriate software on all the time?  Is there any software?
>
...

>Thanks in advance for your replies.  Please reply by e-mail.
>
>msung@eniac.seas.upenn.edu


Sorry, can only answer the sencond question for you.

Caller-ID works only if your local phone company supports it.  Here's how it
works, whenever you get a call, between the first and the second ring, a signal
would be sent and if you have the Caller-ID set up, the caller's phone number
would appear.

That is more or less what the update notice that came with my Supra modem said.
Oh, you can use any terminal emulation program that let you in the command
mode.  Then you have to activate/deactivate the Caller-ID with some AT command.

About all I know about the Caller-ID.

Oh, and about Voice feature, I suspect you'd need a voice input (microphone) of
some sort to make your outgoing message.  At least I don't think they're gonna
built a microphone right into the modem chip itself. :-)

And you would really need a AnsweringMachine software, I'm quite positive.


G'day,

...B.o.b...
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:11101 misc.forsale.computers.mac:934
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,misc.forsale.computers.mac
Subject: Microphone II V4.0 for sale
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:46:54 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

Almost-new copy of Microphone II V4.0, including manuals and original
packing materials.  Asking $85 (and I'll pay postage).

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Info on X-Windows + SLIP for MAC
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:22:27 GMT

Cyrus> == Cyrus Sanii <csanii@bmera226.bnr.ca> 

 Cyrus> Has anyone gotten SLIP to work with Xwindows on a MAC?

MacX works fine (for certain values of "fine", basically depending on
your patience) over VT SLIP and a V.32bis modem.  It is fairly slow.
You definitely don't want to run xv over it, but xterms are probably
usable if you're patient.

Me, I'd rather just run VT in multiple-session mode with telnet...
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
From: veizades@apple.com (John Veizades)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: GV PowerPort Gold & SLIP: poor performance!
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:23:07 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc

You may also want to use MacTCP 1.1.1 since it has some optimizations for
operation over long delay and low bandwidth links.

John Veizades...
Lead Engineer MacTCP
Apple
From: s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Apple license fees
Date: 17 Nov 1992 16:31:03 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft math/inf, Uni Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: irau30.ira.uka.de

In article <1992Nov17.121000.3285@syma.sussex.ac.uk> jeremym@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jeremy Maris) writes:
>Earl D. Fife <fife@calvin.edu> writes:
>> I just ordered a single copy of MacTCP from APDA for $25.  Perhaps the
>> rumors about the other prices are as exagerated as this.
>Strange - I phoned them on Monday and asked how much it would cost to
>buy and ship MacTCP to me in the UK and they said $128 !

The licence fees Apple does charge seem to have an irrational,
indeterministic element. For years, for certain software products not
bundled with the standard system (such as ResEdit or MacsBug) you
heard every statement of their price from 'free' up to something like
'$50'. (maybe even higher; but that's the last number I can remember.)
Every time I read about Apple utility software prices, I read
different things.

olaf
-- 
| Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student  |   o     | uknf@dkauni2.bitnet | old address |
| univ. of karlsruhe - germany |  _>\ _  | s_titz@ira.uka.de   | is still    |
| +49-721-60439                | (_)<(_) | praetorius@irc      | valid       |
   "Stop talkin' and start chalkin'!" - Eight Ball Deluxe
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm