From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 14 Oct 1992 13:47:26 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.think.com

In article <Lo7LsB1w163w@peewee>, peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
|>         >Anisa writes:
|>         >Facts are facts, Phil.
|> 
|>         >We don't see how the 'fair' and 'just' Israeli government
|>         >is protecting their rights - just allowing the bloodshed to
|>         >continue
|> 
|> That's why they have undercover units.  They're Mossad agents dressed
|> up as Arabs.  They catch terrorists, put them on trial, and lock them
|> up for a long time when they catch them.  They don`t simply lock them
|> up for being Arabs, much as you'd like to believe that, Anisa.  If
|> they did, they'd be just as bad as every Arab government, with the
|> exception of Egypt.

First of all, the Mossad does not operate within Israel, so get your
facts straight before you post rubbish.  Second of all, the controversy
is not about them being caught, tried, and convicted - though that is a
story in itself which I will refer to later.  It is about the unofficial
policy of not taking them alive.  These units try to hunt down palestinians
wanted by the security forces for violent crimes against either Israelis
or other palestinians.  That in itself is not wrong.  What is wrong,
and controversial is the fact that serious doubts have been raised
as to whether these people can expect to be left alive when they surrender.
Bearing in mind that the targets believe, and I am not yeaing or naying,
that they will be tortured once captured, it is easy to see why
they would try to avoid this.

As to their capture, one of my gripes with the system is that they
are not allowed to be confronted with the material against them
nor is their counsel given adequate time or facilities to prepare
their defence.  This opinion has been voiced in the past by legal
experts in Israel and is not mine alone.

|> Then some Palestinian terrorist kills an IDF soldier performing his
|> routine patrol, and you cry foul when the IDF goes hunting for the
|> bandit.

See the above.

|>         >The Israelis could do a lot toward achieving peace between
|>         >the Palestinians but it isn't in their interest to do so.
|> 
|> Doesn't stopping the settlements in the territories count at all?
|> How about their lifting the ban on contact with the PLO?  (which
|> was a mistake, IMO).  What about allowing foreigners to represent
|> them in the peace negotiations?  These are all tangible, relevant
|> steps toward peace that Israel has taken in the past few months.

Yes, these are steps that are tangible and go towards the road to peace,
the only hope I have is that they are not "too little, too late".

|> The difference between Israel and the Arab states can be seen in the
|> recent Cairo earthquake.  Israel has offered technical assistance and
|> labor.  Human sweat.  The Saudis are giving them $50 million.  It must
|> be nice to have all that money.  I wonder how much money the Saudis
|> would've offered had the quake hit Jerusalem.

That is ridiculous. Israel has a highly trained team that it has
sent to other countries on occasion, Azerbaijan comes to mind.
The Saudis don't, so they sent the next best thing, money to help
finance it.  If you want to argue about the amount sent, fine go ahead.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast