From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: ND's DuBose Situation
Organization: University of Michigan
	<BILLMS.92Sep3081816@z.eecs.umich.edu>
	<1992Sep3.135226.15911@news.nd.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:05:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.135226.15911@news.nd.edu> rszczerb@chekov.helios.nd.edu (Robert Szczerba) writes:

   In article <BILLMS.92Sep3081816@z.eecs.umich.edu> billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:
   >
   >It is against the NCAA rules for athelets to benefit financially because of
   >their sports skills.  Thats why they don't pay them, they give them
   >scholarships.  Thats why you can't sign an agent.  Thats why you can't accept
   >cash gifts.  The idea, right or wrong, that drives these rules is that the
   >players should be amateurs.
   >
   >Dubose got a 25k car loan, no money down and no payments for one year, when
   >the whole sum comes do immediately.  He is reported to have said that that he
   >will pay it off with his salary from the NFL.  I don't know if this is
   >*right* or *wrong* in an absolute sence, but it is absolutely clear to be a
   >violation of both the letter and spirt of the NCAA rules.  Given that, and
   >the allegations of the earlier high school loan, I thought the penalty was an
   >amazingly light slap.
   >

   The NCAA said that DuBose did not use his football status in
   any way to get the loan, nor was he given the money for
   his football performances at Notre Dame.  This would be exactly

If you read my post again, Rob, you will note that I was very careful in my
writing.  I said "he is reported to have said...".  This is from the Chicago
Tribune, and somebody pointed out today that the Sun Times called that report
inaccurate.  You will also see that the remainder of my post was clearly
premised on this report, which I did not call a fact.  I wish you were a bit
more careful in your reading.  The point that I was making is that the news
report claimed that Dubose had admitted to an action that the NCAA clearly
says is illegal.  You yourself seem to agree with that so far.  The point is
that while the NCAA says such an action is illegal, the report that he
admitted to it was factually incorrect and the NCAA decided that DuBose
didn't actually commit that offense.  Come on Rob, the paragraph was written
very clearly and very carefully.  Do I have to interpret everything for you?
You are acting a bit thin skinned here.

   the same as a bank giving a graduating engineer a car loan
   and not asking for payments until he start his new job.  Come on
   Bill, you're just looking for ways to bash ND and you're getting
   frustrated when you can't.

Wrong.  First of all, you sound like a child when you bring up the word
"bashing".  That suggests me that you can't respond to the arguments at hand
and want to just try and apply a blanket of discredit to all posts.  Try to
follow the argument and talk honestly.  Secondly, I was responding to
somebody who seemed to not understand how the issue could even appear to
violate the rules.  So I attempted to explain the matter.  I would have done
the same thing for any school, including Michigan.  I was explaing the rules,
Rob, and illustrating them with reports relevent to the case at hand.  

   I'm just curious ... are you practicing your excuses for when
   ND beats Michigan in two weeks.  I have faith in you Bill, I'm
   sure you'll come up with something really remarkable to place
   the blame on.  I'm looking forward to reading it.

You have no idea what you are talking about.  You don't know me from a hole
in the wall, and you've proven yourself incapable of following a relatively
simple hypothetical argument.  Sheesh.  And *you* want to discredit my
opinions.

I don't crow when we win and I *don't* bitch when we lose.

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college