HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevint@sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci)
Subject: Re: Dan flipped through an AmigaWorld, and:
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:40:04 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Stephenson Daniel A (das9674@usl.edu) wrote:
> 
> You guys are really hard up for a fight, aren't you?  You you prefer to 
> donate you Amiga3000 to me for a while, in that case???  Good grief.
> I don't have access to anything but that Amiga1000, and I am going to
> try it out some, and I don't give a hoot how old it is.  
> >=  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
> --
> Dan Stephenson                                                das9674@usl.edu  
By all means, try out the A1000, but if you find things you don't like 
about it, don't just flame away, ask if the problem has been addressed in 
AmigaDOS 2.04/2.1/3.0. Odds are it was changed. I am all for anyone trying 
any Amiga as long as they realize what they are doing. 

       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
      | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |
      | Hewlett Packard Firmware QA | HPDesk: Kevin TADDEUCCI /HP5300/A0 |
      | Telnet: 794-4192            | HP Mailstop: 2LR-N                 | 
       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Dan flipped through an AmigaWorld, and:
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:37:25 GMT

In article <Bz6sop.590@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose) writes:
>
>Please stop by my dorm room some time and I'll show you just how "primitive"
>WB2 is... ...it looks very nice, actually.  I had a Mac pal over in my room
>the other night, and when she got a look at my WB screen the first thing she
>said was "Pretty!"  Compared to Windows (gaudy) and the Mac (is it 2d or 3d?),
>it's sleek and clean.  Compared to Motif, it needs a little work, but hey...

maybe so, maybe so.  The Mac, IMO, has inertia behind it, only.  How many
colors do you run WB in?

I think the way I have my OS/2 schemes set up is really slick.  Seriously,
it does remind me a lot of Motif.  Only in OS/2, the tital bar doesn't 'squish'
down when you click it to move the windows.  But all in all, the WorkPlace Shell
has a very 3-Dish squishy-bumpy look. :)  

How you ever seen the Windows window-scheme designer?  I don't know if the
Amiga has something like this.  The OS/2 variant of this is SO complicated.
Yowzers.

>Jake Rose               :: Two men look out through the same bars.
>jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ::                     One sees mud, and one the stars.
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while
we lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:52:36 GMT

>Yes, but the idea is that the activity going on in the background, while
>you're playing, is anything but all-consuming.  Things like printing,
>downloading, or even tracing the odd ray or two.  Sometimes I'd like to
>play a quick shoot'em-up while I download, but I have to settle for solitaire
>or something because it's the only sort of game that multitasks.

Hmmm, not under OS/2.  Granted, you have to pick your games...something
that uses a lot of interrupts can't do it.  I haven't done it much,
though.  I don't play alot of games.  Some people do, though.
>
>The animation of the characters could be improved.  Objects get pretty chunky
>looking when you get up close.

Compared to what other game?

>  The native PC sound support is horrible.

There is no such thing as "native PC sound."  You choose your sound
board just as you choose a video card or a modem.  Unless you are going
to argue that CGA is "native PC video" and a serial port is a "native
PC modem."  Just because there is a speaker in the computer doesn't
mean it was meant for games!

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: OS/2 vs Workbench debate
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:24:14 GMT

Here's a question that might prove of use. I've been following the 
debate over "which is better, OS/2 or WB 2.x?" with interest. Since
you guys are arguing about this or that is or isn't professional looking,
it might help if you guys defined what constitutes a professional interface.

Why IS OS/2 more "professional" that WB 2.x or vice versa? What makes one
more professional (I assume that means it is more usable by "professionals,"
though what kind of professional?) than another? It would probably allow us
to more accurately judge what if any the shortcomings of this or that platform
are.

Why can't I live without pulldown menus? Or Pop up menus? Or five button mice?
Or CLIs? Or whatever?

Just a thought.....


Queen of Swords

Darrell Leland (an addicted Champions player and ref)
Dleland@nmsu.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:31741 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:21820
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Power-up for AGA Machines! rumour.
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:48:03 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <BzBIs7.BFM@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury) writes:
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah... I know what RISC is, I know what CISC is.... but, according
> to other sources, the MC68040 is, at it's heart, a RISC chip mircocoded to
> understand 68000 series instructions.... I do not know how true this is, 
> but it sounds likely.....

Well, to answer this really requires going to the heart of the
argument about what makes a RISC and what makes a CISC, where
you will run into the problem that the ad-hoc definition of
what is RISC and what isn't simply isn't fixed or black and
white and since a CISC is not defined execept as being not-RISC
you have the same problem there.

You might also want to recall that the orginal 68000 is also
micro-coded, to the degree that Motoroal and IBM were able to
use the 68000 chip design as a basis for at least a partial
IBM 360/370 emulation.  These instruction sets are not really
very similar, since the IBM 360 instruction set predates the
PDP-11 model that is reflected in so many of the CISC and "RISC"
designs, including the 68000 family.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: My WB (was e: Dan flipped through an AmigaWorld, and: )
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.195926.23076@ludd.luth.se> pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m) writes:
>
>	Feel free to have a look at my 1344*1024 virtual WB. This works
>very slick for me, good enough to keep me from buying a monitor and gfx card
>for megabucks for a while. (I run it in 698*556)
>
>ftp.luth.se: pub/aminet/pix/wb/PjotrWB.lha
>(or any AmiNet mirror)

It isn't there.  I just looked.  I did ftp some of the WB3.0 scenes, though.

>
>		/Peter


-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while
we lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: A1200 v Clones - just the figures please
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:41:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.190641.12357@city.cs> lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:
>I just want to know how many PC Clones there are in the world,
>broken down by country if possible.

100,000,000 is the usually bandied about figure, but nobody knows for
sure.  It's growing fast, though that's for sure.

>For comparison there are between 4 and 5 million Amigas at the
>moment. I expect the A1200 to change the picture of home
>computing radically, but would like to know what the PC
>'inertia' is.

Hahahahahahahaha.


Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:31745 comp.sys.amiga.misc:18816 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:8101
From: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: World of Commodore Toronto
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:50:10 GMT
Reply-To: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Distribution: inet
Organization: Commodore-Amiga, Inc.  West Chester, PA.

In article <OAHVENLA.92Dec11205740@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> oahvenla@snakemail.hut.fi (Osma Ahvenlampi) writes:
>Intuition? I thought the ChangeScreenBuffer() (or whatever it is...) is a 
>Graphics.library routine... Anyway, gfx.lib has been speeded up, not a small
>thing either...

ChangeVPBitMap() is a graphics.library function to change the BitMap of
a ViewPort in a very fast system-friendly way.  ChangeScreenBuffer() is
an Intuition call that uses ChangeVPBitMap() to change the BitMap of a
screen's ViewPort.  ChangeScreenBuffer() allows Intuition to manage
menu and gadget interactions, so that you can have menus and certain
kinds of gadgets supported on a double-buffered screen.

>Osma Ahvenlampi  -  oahvenla@snakemail.hut.fi   * Workstation power for micro-

     Peter
--
Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
"Opinions enlarged to show detail"
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:55:28 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <n11f3t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:

>I  remember  reading about a SCSI-II controler that was pin-compatible with
>the one in the A3000 (though it wasnt recomended as a drop in replacement).

That's the WD33C93B.  It's certainly supposed to fully conform to SCSI-2, it
has a bit that can be set to toggle between that mode and, in theory, 
compatibility with the "A" part.  This won't really get anything.  The
scsi.device is already SCSI-2 legal, and this chip doesn't go any faster
than the "A".

>Thats  a  single chip, not chipset.  I doubt it really costs that much more
>than  normal  SCSI  -  hey,  look  at the Falcon 030..  its got SCSI-II (of
>course, it's not out yet..).

It's very easy to get SCSI-2 support in a SCSI controller chip these days.
The trick is to get Fast SCSI-2 going, and the other things necessary to have
real performance SCSI rather than Mac-style programmed I/O SCSI.

-- 
Dave Haynie / Commodore Technology, High-End Amiga Systems Design (cool stuff)
 "The Crew That Never Rests"  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh   BIX: hazy
		SCIENCE:	"I'll believe it when I see it"  
		RELIGION:	"I'll see it when I believe it"

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sugai@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Masaru Sugai)
Subject: Re: IBM PC Compatible Sega Megadrive
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:09:54 GMT
Organization: NEC Corporation

In article <1992Dec8.050346.21731@ra.msstate.edu> you write:
>In article <1992Dec8.013919.5537@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Jimmy Fang) writes:
>>I was watching TV this morning, watching one of those tacky home
>>shopping shows and some guy from Amstrad was demo-ing a new IBM PC
>>compatible that could also play Sega Megadrive/Genesis game cartridges.
>>
>>I really want to get one!  You can play some really cool games!
>
>I recall reading about a machine which sounds a bit like this.  It was
>in one of the console rags and was supposed to be something of an Amiga
>killer, with the apps from the IBM and the games from the Sega.  The
>unit had a Genesis motherboard and Clone motherboard, but I don't think
>that there was much of a connection between them.
>
>>The IBM side was a 386 (sales rep didn't say anything technical
>>whatsoever), so I don't know processor speed, SX or DX, hard-drive size,
>>RAM or software (apart from a collection of games).  It was running some
>>Amstrad GUI front-end.
>
>Hmm, sounds like it really is similar to the unit I heard about.  While
>this may look like a neat hack, it is a bit silly if neither side can
>use the others resources.  The Clone could certainly benefit from having
>a real CPU to assist it...  :-)
>
  Sounds like an offspring from a domestic model called "TeraDrive" in Japan.
I don't remember its specs exactly, but it has 3 cpus, 68000, z80, and 
286. It hit the market about two years ago, and I saw a poster saying
this model was developed with the cooperation of IBM Japan. It was 
retailed around $1000 w/ monitor.  These days I can find them sold as 
clearance items at discount shops in Akihabara, very often. As an
amiga user, this guy was attractive only in that I could get 15Khz
monitor cheap.

- Masaru Sugai,  NEC Corp.  (std. disclaimer applies)
-- 
Masaru Sugai   NEC Corporation Tokyo Japan
   sugai@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp, masaru@world.std.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ignore Barrett
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:56:15 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <BzBJz7.C95@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, lozinski@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (David Lozinski) writes:
>Since this guy (Marc Barrett) is so annoying and pissing everybody off,
>what do you all say if we just ignore him since we can't get rid of him.
>
>-lozinski@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
>"If I wanted to listen to an ASSHOLE, I would've farted!"
>
>^_ Marc, I think there might be a hint there. -^

We CAN get rid of him....everyone add him to your kill file.. :)

sort of like "Buy peace of mind day"  

on Dec 17 along with buying thousands of shares of stock all the netters 
here suddenly will add Marc to their kill files thus clearing the air of
BS on the net FOREVER!!!

Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:31571 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:21714
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re:  Alpha Fun Fact #2314
Distribution: world
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:44:30 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <AHANSFOR.92Dec15014942@bigwpi.wpi.edu> ahansfor@bigwpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford) writes:
>>>>>> On 15 Dec 1992 03:11:07 GMT, bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) said:
>
>bloc1469> In article <1gib3hINNn0l@pith.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
>
>>   Fat chance. Do you even know what the power requirements for that chip are?
>>It's not just big, it's HUGE. It's not going to happen. Besides, the chip
>>itself is very, very, VERY expensive - not exactly something a company that's
>>conscious about price would put in a computer.
>
>bloc1469> With the Alpha chip dissipating 20W of power, it gets hot.
>bloc1469> How hot, you say?  Well, have you ever seen those little
>bloc1469> Betty Crocker ovens for kids to bake cakes in?  Well, those
>bloc1469> are 10-15W...
>
>bloc1469> Buy an Alpha, the only laptop that gives you a hot-seat...
>
>bloc1469> Greg
>
>Indeed.  There is no reason not to have an Alpha in a Desktop if the
>design takes the thermal properties into effect.  DEC does it.  Alpha
>is also ready to go 3.3 volt but I imagine that the new chip sets are
>still 5 volts anyway.

If an Alpha system gets too warm, it halts.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: wendell@medsys.rn.com (Wendell Dingus)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Med-Systems, Kingsport, Tennessee
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:08:18 GMT

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Skip Sauls (skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu) wrote:
>: >Yeah, you're right, Skip.  I've got OS/2 and UNIX here, X-Windows, GNU
>: >compilers, editors, and utilities, sound, applications that you can only
>: >dream about, multitasking, virtual memory, memory protection, device
>: >independence, etc.  I *really* feel crippled :-)
>: That I can only dream about, eh?  Ha!  You obviously don't know what I 
>: do for a living if you think that I am not aware of these things.  The
>: 486 on my desk at work would make many Clone owners drool and is indeed
>: a nice machine, as far as Clones go...
>Nice try to change the subject, Skip.  Read my comments above, and tell me,
>how is my machine crippled?  How come I don't notice it, and I'm not exactly
>a beginner myself?

Are you trying to say ISA is anything other than utter trash Jerry? If so,
no matter how much experience you claim to have, it's not enough. The whole
concept of IRQ's, and memory port addresses sucks majorly! 

You may have "lucked up" and installed new things in your machine in the past
with no conflicts, and if so I'd say beginner's luck. Here's a few examples
of things I've run into in the past few weeks:

1) Plug in an Ethernet card using Memory addresses and IRQ that should be 
miles away from anything video. Don't work. Plug in another VGA card and 
things work. Result: Move memory on the Ethernet because the VGA card is
using non-standard things or memory areas it shouldn't be. 

2) Try to make an Iomega Tape250 Insider tape drive work under Windows 3.1
It will work if you take the machine out of turbo, but not in! (on a 486).
Call Central Point and find out that it's a known bug they're working on. 
Too much DMA is eaten up they say... (using Central Point Backup).

3) Here's a good one. Make basically any internal modem and serial IO card
work using the standard COM3 or 4. There are still some around that will, 
but MOST won't. I don't know what manufacturers have changed, but for the
most part I've only gotten COM3 or 4 to work by using a non-standard IRQ
(like 5) and telling the software (mouse drivers and such) to use that
instead of the standard DOS device COM3:

4) I'm getting tired of this.. no more examples. The basic point is that 
anyone in the business of making PC peripheals work on lots of ISA based
systems learn lots of cuss words and where the aspirin is kept. It's a 
major headache...


-- 
-- Wendell Dingus    internet:  wendell@medsys.rn.com       //  
--    uucp:  uunet!gator!medsys!wendell    Only AMIGA!    \X/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:35:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.024304.18878@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In article <Bz5v54.93u@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>>Why don't you pick up a PC magazine, it would be quite a shock.  The PC
>>world is undergoing quite the transformation.  VESA local bus coupled
>>with Graphics coprocessing and a bunch of new sound cards.  Perhaps,
>>though, you are right, maybe CBM isn't innovating, just buying other
>>people's parts and slapping them together.  It's been YEARS since they
>>did anything INNOVATIVE.
>
>It's taken 12 years to establish a bus standard which offers reasonable
>performance and you call that innovative? What a dog and pony show.

   How do you base this statement?  The IBM 8-bit XT bus offers good 
performace with the 8086 and 8088 processors for which it was designed.  The
16-bit ISA bus also offers good performance with the 80286 processors for
which it was designed.  

   Granted, the industry had to wait a while to get a bus standard that offers
good performance with the Intel 32-bit processors, but the wait wasn't 12
years.  The 80386 has only been available for less than four years.  (I forget
exactly how long the 386 has been available)

   BTW, is the Amiga market totally free of long waits for updates to basic
technologies?  How long will we have to wait for virtual memory from Commodore?
(I noted in the transcripts of Lou Eggebrecht's (sp) talks that Commodore has
no plans for virtual memory)  How long did the Amiga market have to wait for
decent color capability?  How long will the Amiga market have to wait for
updates to the sound capabilities in the lowest-common-denominator Amigas?
How long will the Amiga market have to wait for memory protection and OS
features to make AmigaOS virus-resistant?  How long will the Amiga market have
to wait for device-independent graphics?  How long will the Amiga market
have to wait for CD-ROM support from Copmmodore for the higher-end Amigas?
How long will the Amiga market have to wait for MPEG decompression hardware
products for the high-end Amigas?

>For 90% of the PC industry, R&D means replicate and duplicate.

   Hardly.  In the PC industry, most of R&D is spent on software-oriented
research and development.  The Amiga market seems must more infatuated with
hot hardware and less oriented toward real computing applications.  This is
possibly because 90% of Amiga owners are the types who have more credit than
brains, and are continuously spending 80% of their family's after-tax incomes
on Amiga hardware.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The glorious merits of MS-DOS:
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:32:37 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec7.223334.29344@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@occam (Jerry Shekhel):

> : were, years ago. But now that OS/2 is out, sheesh, the hardware is no longer

> Years ago?  I was using System V/AT in 1986 and OS/2 in 1987.  You must be

    OS/2 2.0, or the crappy pre-2.0 versions that used to run on 286s?

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***