From: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Reply-To: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:22:28 GMT


In a previous article, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) says:

[My quote removed for brevity.]
>Ego is like an animal which we all posses. The "challenge" is to domesticate
>it so we can "ride" it not so "it" rides us. A little ego is like a
>household pet. Which we think is our possession, but in keeping it we find
>ourselves bound as its slave. If this gives you a little confusion, good!
>Then you have begun a little begining.
I have a household pet, a black cat named snowball, who is certainly not my 
master. We have a simple relationship: I provide some of his food, and he
gets information for me. Our relationship exists so long as it serves us 
both. I would argue that the Ego is not "like an animal", but is an integral
part of one's self. You cannot make a tree work without bark, and a man
without ego is in similar straits: Unable to use his own talents to their 
greatest effect. I had wished to imply in my previous prose, that a little
confusion is a little beginning, and additional confusion provides additional
opportunity for growth.
>
>>>: There is one very easy to find source which will provide all of the tools
>: you need, and all of the lessons you shall learn: your own mind.<<
>
>That is where a "teacher" is important. One's own mind can be more deceptive
If you wish to be deceived by your own mind, you most assuredly will be.
>than another person could deceive. For in another person it is easier to
>expose them and know they have deceived you. In one's own mind, one can
this may be true if you can read minds. A great actor can never expose his
true self on stage, and takes great pain to do so.
>remain ever deceived as the one cannot see one's self except by reflection
>which is one of the function of a teacher. That is to be, like a looking
>glass.
If I wish to reflect upon myself (which I do frequently) I can simply 
remember my actions, and the thoughts which caused those actions, and the 
logic (or illogic) leading to those thoughts. If I wish to contemplate my
behaviour in a situation I have not experienced, I can simulate that 
situation within my own mind, and record my reactions for later study.
This is very similar to the REM dream state, and deep theraputic hypnosis.
(Any fans of Eriksonian Hypnotherapy out there? :)
>
>>>: I would add that there is a fine line of difference between _control_ and 
>: _influence_ and I rely entirely on the latter. I would not create a storm, I
>: would ask it to consider another course which would benifit it, and myself.
>: That is what I have learned from Zen.<<
>
>True. But how much more difficult is it to distinguish between the subtle
>and the gross? Is not influence as manipulative as control? In the face of a
Yes, it can be as manipulative, the difference is entirely in intent. I
consider it impolite to control something, but my influence can certainly
be resisted, and I try to be more in keeping with the initial condition, 
i.e. what existed before my tamperings.
>storm it is better to bend with its wind, but a storm does not listen to
>reason, because it has only one purpose. To spend itself.
Sounds like L.Ron Hubbard's "The sole drive of the individual human is to
reproduce." I didn't agree with him, either. I will not counter the storm's 
effort to spend itself, only the direction and timing.
>
>
>>>: I would ask for a clearer definition of 'power trip'...Is this the feeling
>: one gets from using power? Or is it more the false impression of using power?<<
>
>Nigris gave a good example in the quote you gave. It is a false presumption
>that one has in pretense of being omnipotent. Many people quote "Do as thou
>wilt" but few know what to really do to begin with.
I think I would find being all-powerful INTENSLEY boring. That's probably one
of the few reasons I'm not. The only limitation of the individual are the ones
he/she chooses. (Richard Bach, _Illusions_) As for the part about "what
to really do to begin with" um, I would leave that decision to the individual,
as you cannot force your choices into another's skull without something on
the order of a crowbar or baseball bat.
>
>
>>>: I would not strive for more power, I still have not found the bounds of
>: what I have. I give of mine freely, and never run short. My power is only 
>: limited by my limitations, and if I were to believe I would run out, surely
>: I would do so.
>: 
>: 
>: The greatest gift is self.<<
>
>Unfortunately, though this is very beautiful, and selfless, it is also
Thanks.
>urealistic. Each person comes into this world to learn something. Some
When did you discover this information? If you found it in yourself, it is
true for you. If your teacher told you, and you chose to believe, it is 
true for both of you.
>however, need to pass through difficulties that no one can, no matter what
I agree that you cannot assist; however, you can help them prepare, by 
giving them an opportunity to learn what they do not already know about
themselves.
>power you freely transfer, assist them. The nature of humanity is to be
>ungrateful. We learn appreciation only through philosophical codes or
I would agree more with "the nature of humanity is selfish" and I would extend
this to the theory that the individual learns gratitude by experiencing a
loss from lack of exchange of whatever medium gratitude is traded in. It 
exists because it is a perpetuated means of interaction between individuals.
>integrety, which again is a learning process.
I have no integrity in the social sense of the term. I would as easily kill 
a lady as kiss her, depending on the necessary behavior. (What _I_ decide is
necessary.) And I have no appreciation for that which does not benefit me 
(I do enjoy and appreciate a good art show, it benefits me by inspiring me,
or helping me feel better.)
>There's the crux of the problem. An individual cannot learn unless they are
>capable to "see" for themselves.
Everyone must receive sensory information from the "outside" world somehow.
The association of this information with internal perceptions (conclusions)
is learning.
>If you will to help, the only thing you can do is to inspire them to
>recognize or become aware of that which they seek but you cannot make them
>"see" what they would not want to see. to quote: You can take a horse to the
>water, but you cannot make them drink"
I will offer information, I cannot guarantee how it will be interpreted, or
used. Every individual's perceptions are tainted by every previous 
perception, and making the individual aware of this is a great first step
in enlightenment.
>
>Greater is the gift of knowledge. For through it we manifest wisdom for that
>is the only thing we can take with us when we die. And perhaps, that is the
>only reason we have incarnated to begin with.
I was (I thought) incarnated to help others, enjoy life, and occaisionaly 
consume excessive quantities of alcohol.
>
>For what is it, that is the only thing one can keep when by death we pass
>to the land of silence?
I can't guess, having never been there.
>
Excuse me if I'm getting a little silly, I was trying to lighten this 
dreary mess up a bit.

Paul (not John, but similar)
-- 
jds2 	John D. Specht (Heads I win; Tails you lose.) Virtual reality is life!
ae358	Paul Bort (It ain't pretty being easy) Spring: Forces, Coiled again!
If you want to save an endangered species, hug a romantic.
Love is the triumph and pleasure and joy and light that makes life bearable.
Newsgroups: alt.magick