HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: moderate sci.med??? alternative suggestion
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:32:34 GMT
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 42

Please excuse me if i'm repeating something that's already been said;  i've
been off-net for nearly 3 weeks (neat vacation, tho).

maybe sci.med would benefit from some sub-groupings, like (e.g.)
sci.med.obesity or sci.med.prozac or sci.med.symptom.analysis or
sci.med.allergy or sci.med.sports (etc., etc., etc.) or maybe even
sci.med.flame (for those who just want generally to rant & rave about doctors
or health care etc., etc., etc.).

[Also I wouldn't mind having a sci.med.journal.review in which folks who
regularly read the professional journals could post BRIEF abstracts of
interesting new articles so that we lay folks (who regularly read OTHER
journals, but are interested in med journal articles selectively) could be
alerted to new research findings that might be interesting.]

I agree BOTH with the folks who've noted that over 100 postings/day, much of
which is repititious, is out-of-control, AND with those who aren't particularly
crazy about a moderated group.

Other things that I thought might help:
1)Keep a FAQ file, & get folks w. repititious questions to read the file rather
than re-asking the question for the umpteenth time.
2)Take some of the educational function of sci.med to alt.uu (usenet
university), where maybe some of the more highly educated folks from sci.med
might be able to offer lay-folks' courses in medical science topics.  [I
suspect there might be a fair amount of interest...]

Maybe some of these things could address the concerns both of those who do, and
of those who don't, want sci.med to be "moderated".

If enough folks think anything like the above could/would be helpful, I'd be
happy to offer some amount of my humble service to implementing these (or
other) organizational/administrative details.  I don't have an MD, but I do
have a Ph.D. in philosophy, & teach both medical ethics & philosophy of science
(both of which relate to various aspects of sci.med) -- in case anyone cares
what my credentials are for this.

Comments by e-mail;  i'll post summary in a couple of weeks.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
From: bunnym@nos850.UUCP (Bunny Miller)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Reglan, Zantac: Physiology?
Summary: Need more info. on Zantac
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:59:46 GMT
Organization: US Naval Ordnance Station  Louisville, KY

In article <1992Sep1.050617.14255@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

  .... info on H2 blockers deleted.

> with other drugs affecting their dose, and H2-blockers can sometimes
> cause confusion in elderly or debilitated individuals.

What other side effects are specific to Zantac when used in elderly?   
Specifically what about drowziness and general indifference to surroundings. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bunny Miller                            ...!uunet!coplex!nos850!bunnym
Naval Ordnance Station  Louisville, KY.
(502) 364-6617
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: CFIDS and Lyme
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:18:05 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep2.053319.580@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes:
>In article <16272@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:

>>Lyme is a disease with a definitely identified cause (the borrelia
>>spirochete).  It is true that it can produce many different
>>symptoms, but it is not at all in the same category with CFS,
>>for which no cause has yet been identified.  Lyme is in the
>>differential diagnosis of patient presenting with fatigue.  So
>>are other diseases, such as mono and MS.
>
>Just what does this statement mean?  

It means that Lyme disease is known to be an infectious disease
caused by a specific spirochete. It is unknown whether the
etiology of CFS is infectious, inflammatory, caused by chemicals,
or what. 

>
>So on what are you basing your differentiation of Lyme and CFIDS?
>

The fact that one has a definite etiology and the other is an
unknown. The fact that two diseases are both difficult to diagnose
or share some symptoms does not make them similar in any way.

>
>You know, Gordon, I find offensive your willingness to call quack
>someone who you don't know, of whose work you're totally ignorant.  It
>makes it hard for me to pay attention to other things you say, because
>I don't know what's your bigotry and what's your wisdom.

It's not bigotry at all, and you don't have to know someone
personally to know that they are a quack. People who prey
on the fears of people who think they have Lyme and diagnose
it in everyone, while financially benefitting fromo repeatedly
giving IV antibiotics without justification are not just
quacks and frauds, and should go to prison.

Gordon is a mainstream doctor. You don't have to pay attention
to anything he says, just as you don't have to pay attention
to anything I say. If we offend you, sorry.

 -km
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: king@meaddata.com (Mike King)
Subject: HELP!!! Important question!!
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:20:08 GMT
Distribution: usa

For the last two years I have gone through hell, and my bank account,
dealing with my daughters medical problems.  She is two years old and
is blind in her right eye.  She was diagnosed with "Persistant
Hyperplastic Vitrius Humor"(sp).  At first we assumed that this was
"just one of those things", but lately we're not to sure.

Here's the question.  Could her condition be, possibly, caused by a
prolonged staff infection?  She had the staff infection for
approximately three to four weeks.  It was misdiagnosed by our former
pediatrician.  I know nobody can give me an absolute answer without
seeing her.  I just want to know if it is possible.  Thanks in advance



-- 
Michael W. King     |  "I'm going to graduate on  |     (513) 865-1395   
Mead Data Central   |  time, no matter how long   |     CAPRR Conversion
P.O. Box 933        |  it takes"                  | mead!mwk@uccba.uc.edu
Dayton, Ohio  45401 |      -- Rod Brookin         |    ...!uccba!mead!mwk
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Diabetic Spikes
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:34:12 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug25.154543.141@lonex.rl.af.mil> claudia@lonex.rl.af.mil (Claudia M. Servadio-Coyne) writes:
>Also another problem is his overnight number go up steadily through out
>the night dispite an increase in his NPH. Example: he can start at
>147 have 12 oz of milk and by 10:30 pm be at 250 by the next morning
>he is at 316.  What might cause this (I don't believe he is rebounding).

Rebounding is a very common problem which can be very difficult to
prove unless you do sugars almost constantly, and on a child that is
difficult to do. One hint is if you REDUCE the insulin and the
sugars go lower. You didn't give us any information on what sort of
insulin schedule he is on - kids sometimes end up on very unusual
insulin regimens.

I am going to start putting some kind of disclaimer on these postings,
but I'm not sure what. My only "advice" is that you discuss what
is going on with the boy's doctor, and don't adjust the insulin
yourself. Since you are at an Air Force base, I am not sure how
much pediatric coverage they have.

 -km
From: kreisel@amsaa-cleo.brl.mil (Robert G. Kreisel)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Hiccups
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:29:24 GMT
Organization: Army Materiel Systems Analysis Activity

>>-
>>-1.  Does medical science understand what causes hiccups?
>>-
>>-2.  If so, what causes them?
>>-
>>-3.  What purpose do hiccups serve?
>>-


I can't answer any of these questions, but an interesting thing to note is
when infants have hiccups, one cure that seems to work is to give them
sugar.  I have a friend who recently had twins.  When one of them get
hiccups, she puts a little sugar on his pacifier, and voila...no more
hiccups.

I never tried this myself, so I don't know how it works on an adult.  Of
course how many adults do you know who use a pacifier ;)

-Rob
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699)
Subject: Re: Whole milk verses 2%
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:59:38 GMT

In article 2A96523F@stjhmc.fidonet.org, Daniel.Prince@p0.f129.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Prince) writes:
>To: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
>
> geb> There is some research that shows that if babies are given a low
> geb> fat diet they lag in brain development.  You should feed your baby
> geb> milk that approximates human breast milk as closely as possible.
> geb> That is what human babies are evolved to thrive on.  Skim milk
> geb> should not be given to normal babies.  If the baby has a hereditary
> geb> hyperlipidemia, it may be recommended, but otherwise, no.
>
>Do women on a low fat diet (like that eaten by most mainland 
>Chinese) have milk that is significantly different than that of 
>women on a high fat Western diet?  Are there any significant 
>racial differences in breast milk?
>
>.... Dis-information is the most common commodity in the universe.
>
> 
>
>--  
>Internet: Daniel.Prince@p0.f129.n102.z1.fidonet.org


Some notes on human development:

1)  Human milk is the best possible food for human babies, as supported
by:
	-babies fed on human milk for at least six months have
	measurably lower sickness rates (on average)
	-babies of malnurished women will be perfectly healthy as long
	as they are breastfed (the mother's body will destroy itself if
	necessary, to feed the child)

2)  Human babies NEED a high fat diet in the first several months in
order for brain development to progress properly.

3)  If a woman does not want to (or cannot) breastfeed her child,
formula is the best option, because it is designed to mimic human milk
as closely as possible.  Cows milk has VERY LITTLE CHEMICAL
RELATIONSHIP to human milk!!  All of the evidence that I have seen and
heard suggests that a baby should be fed human milk or formula until at
least 6 -12 months.

Please note:  I am not (yet) a doctor, but all of my comments are based
on comments and observations that my mother has made over the past
sixteen years (during which time she has worked with breastfeeding
mothers and babies helping them with problems, and sudying
breastfeeding and related subjects).

---
*********************************************************************
Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
 All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Ken's concerns about misuse of net info
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:37:39 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.



Before putting something in the FAQ, you probably should ask the
poster if it is all right.  Since you will be sending out that
post again and again without the person's knowledge, otherwise.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: phentermine & fenfluramine
Keywords: sci.med
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:51:14 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <3580@unisql.UUCP> collene@unisql.UUCP (Collene Pearce) writes:

>
>3) Also, being (from what I can see) rather familiar with prescription
>   medications, perhaps you can also explain this -  Why are some doctors
>   so paranoid about prescribing appetite suppressants, such as fastin? 

Because in some states it can get your license revoked, or at least
get you disciplined.  I think this is true in Wisconsin and Massachusetts.
In Pennsylvania, you are supposed to report all patients receiving these
drugs quarterly to the state.  I think such rules are totally irrational,
but they do exist and are a great hassle for the doctor.

>   waste a lot of time and money.   Some (most) doctors seem to be _afraid_
>   to disclose whether or not they will (as a matter of practice) prescribe
>   "diet pills" until they can talk with you face to face.  I think they
>   want to look at you to see if you look like some sort of "undercover
>   agent".  ;-)    
>

Or a junkie.  There are things called "script doctors" who make their
living selling prescriptions to junkies.  No one wants to answer such
inquiries over the phone.  Might get you the wrong sort of patient.
   
>   How can a drug be "legal", yet prescribing it be "illegal"?  Please
>   explain.
>
Sometimes it is the reason it is prescribed.  Sometimes it is the state.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: panneloctomy
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:03:49 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <10708.2A98E51D@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Tom.Martens@f3.n107.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Martens) writes:
>Can anyone please tell me more of the panelectomy as two doctors have 
>suggested it and I need to find out more it is the fat removal from my 
>stomach......What are he major dangers, how long is it to recover ec. etc.    
>thanks   tom
>

I don't believe I am familiar with the term.  Do you mean
panniculectomy (removal of an abdominal panniculus)?  If
so, I can give you information.  This is a plastic
surgery procedure, done to remove excess skin from a person
who has lost a great deal of weight (over 100 lbs, usually).
If done by a skilled surgeon, the results can be excellent,
cosmetically.  Don't let anyone but a plastic surgeon do this.
The dangers are those of general anesthesia and infection
of the wound.  You will be in bed for several days afterwards,
and then limited in your activities for about a month.
It is rather expensive, and not covered by insurance.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: fastin - what is it?
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:08:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug25.210840.3146
Distribution: sci
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <3529@unisql.UUCP> collene@unisql.UUCP (Collene Pearce) writes:
>I was recently told by a acquaintance that her doctor prescribed a drug
>called "fastin" (or something like that), for her for weight loss.  She
>also saw the resident dietician for behavior modification input, as well.
>Apparently, the diet was successful.  Lost about 50lbs and hasn't gained
>it back.

What's her doctor's name?  I wanna know!  You can't prescribe such drugs
in Massachusetts.

>Can anyone tell me what this drug is, how it works, side affects and if
>there are other, similar drugs available?  How long can one take this
>drug?  What is the expected rate of weight loss?

Fastin is a drug called phentermine, which is an amphetamine-like
appetite suppressant.  Theer was a good study by Weintraub in
Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, May 1990, which looked
at _long term_ efficacy of a combination regimen of phentermine
in the morning and fenfluramine in the late afternoon/early evening,
combined with a diet and ancillary diet support.  Individuals in
the drug group maintained much over their weight loss (10-20% IBW)
for more than two years.

Anorectic drugs were unduly villified in the late 60's because of the
abuse of amphetamines in general.  It was also misunderstood how such
drugs work, with claims that they were effective only for a short
period of time.  In fact, these drugs can be viewed as resetting one's
"setpoint", the weight at which you maintain a constant weight.  As
long as you keep taking the drug, your weight tends to stay around that
setpoint.  They "stop working" in the misguided view, because they
don't keep assisting additional weight loss.  But as long as they're
continued, the individual does not regain the weight, which is arguably
more important.  Once the drug with withdrawn, weight inexorably creeps
back up.  A similar phenomenon occurs in some individuals who smoke.
We know the dangers of smoking.  It is hoped that these drugs are
innocuous enough that they could be given chronically (and there's at
least a fair amount of clinical experience with them to support that
conclusion for otherwise healthy obese individuals.)


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Zoloft?
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:56:50 EDT

In article <27AUG199215063322@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> afkazan@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (The Dinky Ukie) writes:
>I can testify to the benefits of Zoloft.  I've been taking it for four 
>weeks now for clinical depression, and its effect is *wonderful*.  My mood 
>and state of mind have improved 500% (honestly!).  =;-]  
>
>Because the results are so great, I'd be willing to take it the rest of my 
>life, even though the pills are pricey (almost $2 apiece), but because my 
>doctor feels it's a relatively new antidepressant and all its side effects 
>are not documented, he wants to switch me to a more proven drug, Tofranil, 
>which he says I can take indefinitely.
>
>Does anyone have any experience with or information about Tofranil, i.e., its 
>effectiveness, side effects, etc.?  I have to admit I'm concerned about 
>changing medication for fear of sinking back into a deep depression, which 
>would be pure h*ll!  Thanks for any and all replies.


Tofranil (imipramine) is a tricyclic antidepressant, one of the great
grand-daddy's of 'em all.  It has very significant side effects,
generally much worse than the serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as
sertraline (Zoloft) - imipramine side effects include weight gain,
anticholinergic effects (dry mouth, constipation, blurred vision),
orthostatic hypotension, rapid heart beat, impotence, flushing &
increased sweating,   The only reason anybody puts up with the side
effects of imipramine is because depression is hell.  Many
psychopharmacologists prefer secondary amine tricyclics, such as
desipramine (a metabolite of imipramine) which may have less intense
side effects than imipramine (Tofranil).  In all fairness, I should
say that some people take imipramine without much at all in the
way of side effects.

Yes, Zoloft is a new drug, and no, we won't really know whether it is
safe for very long term use until lots of people have taken it for a
very long time.  Preliminary toxicologic data on Zoloft looks good; its
not a very toxic drug, certainly less toxic in overdose than Tofranil.
However, although many recovered depressives are willing to take their
medications forever if they need to, many (probably most) don't need to. 
At present we have no reason to believe that Zoloft is unsafe when
taken for months or years. 

My patients who respond well to Zoloft will stay on it for the usual
duration of treatment - 6 to 12 months or so - then come off.  If
symptoms recurr, they go back on Zoloft, not something else.  

- Mark Kline MD
--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Weight of the heart
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:26:19 GMT

Recently, someone asked about the weight of the average male adult heart.
 
In the "Yale University School of Medicine Heart Book" it states that a
healthy adult human heart weighs between approximately 7 and 15 ounces,
depending on the size of the individual.  For the metrically-minded,
I suppose you could say between approximately 200 and 425 grams.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: gymnastics and growing up
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:25:09 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <24AUG199211532757@sigma.tamu.edu> h2n5451@sigma.tamu.edu (NOBOA, HOMERO L.) writes:

>My sister (she is a doctor) commented that gymnasts are small (what is 
>true) and she says that the jumps and landings damages growth plates
>on the ends of the long bones, making gymnastic athetes small.
>
>Does anybody knows if my sister's assertion is true or is just that 
>tall athletes cannot do in the bussisnes for several good reasons and 
>they (the tall ones) just quit, and the short ones remain to success?
>

Ask your sister if she has any evidence of this or if it is just
a hypothesis on her part.  I'm skeptical.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Power of attorney; was: Re: stomach tube
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:54:14 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

A caution: If you give someone durable power of attorney to make medical
decisions (or for any other purpose), be sure to define the type of
decisions that the recipient is empowered to make.  I know of a case where
the patient's savings were appropriated by one heir (with power of
attorney) without the knowledge of the other heirs.


-- 
+ Michael Covington - Artificial Intelligence Programs - U of Georgia - USA 
+ Unless otherwise noted, these are private opinions, not official statements.
+ VOTE NO GEORGIA LOTTERY - don't tie education to an unpredictable income.
From: cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: wisdom teeth removal
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:38:14 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

I had my wisdom teeth removed in my mid twenties, and I was never told not
to dislodge the blood clots.  So I dislodged them, not knowing what they
were.  My jaws ached terribly.  I learned later I had what was called 'dry
socket'.  I think my dentist was negligent not to tell me.

Also, I have read that removing wisdom teeth has to be done very carefully
and should be done by oral surgeon if possible because if it is done
wrong, the bone can crack.

Mine were removed too late.  I had a lot of crowding, and it affected my
bite, etc.  Should have been done when I was a teen-ager.  If I'd had
plenty of room, I would have kept them.