HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: books
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:24:20 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.
Originator: pat@kelvin-02

Below is a list of kite books that are on my shelf. This isn't
all of the kite books on my shelf, but the ones that I would imagine to be 
readily available to English speaking life forms. I've given the 
ISBN to allow you to get hold of them. I've also given a brief personal opinion
(basically I buy most books that I can get on kite BUILDING).


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Rowlands, 
Kites and Windsocks
ISBN 0-7134-6705-3

Excellent book. Entirely devoted to soft kites. Therefore, it is
assumed that you are a "dab hand" with the old sewing machine
(five points for those that can spot the error on the flowform).


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Toshio Ito and Hirotsuga Komura
Kites. The Science and the Wonder
ISBN 0-87040-526-8

Psuedo-science I think. Again, it attempts to EXPLAIN
kite behaviour, but not PREDICT kite behaviour. From a 
technical point of view it is interesting.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
David Pelham
Kites
ISBN 0-1400-4117-6

Many refer to this as the "kite bible". I'm not
that religous. (reliable) Rumour has it that most of the kites in
the book were built by Julie (she of Vertical Visuals) and not Dave 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Maxwell Eden
Kiteworks
ISBN 0-8069-6713-7

If you can ignore the introduction (old hippie stuff)
you'll enjoy this. Chapters are devoted to the work of
different builders. Good chapter by Dan Leigh!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Schimmelpfennig
Making and Flying Kites
ISBN 0-600-55895-9

Why is this book so cheap? This is an excellent book, typical
German thouroughness (but beware of his parafoil. The rear
keels flap). 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tal Streeter
The Art of the Japanese Kites
ISBN 0-8348-0157-4

Nice book, nice pictures ... but basically for the historian in you.



Patrick Prosser
From: e_splett@trofs.enet.dec.com (Evan Splett)
Subject: Re: Can you help me identify this kite
Organisation: Digital Equipment of Canada - Ottawa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:03:34 GMT


In article <Bu9v7t.4LC@news.fai.com>, pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor) writes...
>The kite consists of four seperate section. Each section
>is a triangular based pyramid made up of two triangles

Well, it seems to be a Tetrahedral Kite (invented by Alexander Graham Bell) .
There is a 4 cell Tetra made by Peter Lynn that sells for around $170,
could this be it ?

    Evan.
From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Can you help me identify this kite
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:02:35 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

You have a 4 cell tetrahedral kite, originally designed by
A.G. Bell. The one you have might be a Prof Waldorf kite.

The problem that you have is that it "over flies". Generally this is a good sign
as it shows that the kite can climb and has low drag. To prevent this happening on the
tetrahedral you use a "SINGLE LINE" bridle. The bridling point is then the 
centre of the front cell. This allows the back end of the kite to rise
when presented with a gusty wind .... somewhat similar to Peter Lynn's
TriD box kite (again, a single point attachment). If you don't do this it will
continue to climb, beyond its zenith, and proceed to dive or fly in large 
circles. 

I have one of Prof Waldorf's kites (I met him this year. He isn't a Prof, and his name's not 
Waldorf. He did this in an attempt to remain mysterious/annonymous), I think its the
super star. It's very good, big, a nice flier. It has a 2 leg bridle, but in a strong wind
"YOU DISCONNECT THE REAR END OF THE BRIDLE SUCH THAT IT BECOMES A SINGLE LEG BRIDLE". 
My wife bought me the kite for Xmas 1991, and it took me a couple of hours to work out
how to assemble it. 

I also have a number of tetrahedral kites, that I built, two 4 cells, and one 10 
cells. The 4 cell kites use the single bridle point. For details of this you might look at the
Peguin Book of Kites by Pelham.


Patrick
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor)
Subject: Does this work
Summary: Trial Posting to rec.kites 
Organization: Open Systems Solution, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:18:28 GMT

I think that my newreader now works, could you please
Reply is you see this message

	Thanks
		Paul Taylor
From: darrin@stuntkite.EBay.Sun.COM (Darrin Skinner)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: HIGH WIND KITES
Date: 12 Sep 1992 02:00:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: darrin@stuntkite.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: stuntkite.ebay.sun.com

Did I hear my name?  First time reading rec.kits in a month and here
is Marty, taking my name in vain . . . (just kidding):)

Just a note about stiffer sticks for high winds.  The stiffer the stick, 
the greater the pull.  Even vented/screened kites contort in high winds
and the temptation is to put stiffer sticks in.  The catch 22 here is
that the pull will soon exceed your strength/weight.  The latest 'new'
solution going around is to add an extra bridle line.  Run it from the
clip to the middle of the leading edge and give it about 1-3 inches of
slack.  It is there to keep the leading edge from distorting alot.  Some
distortion is desireable (it's one way to stall the kite).

Darrin

In article 18986@das.harvard.edu, mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes:
>There are several kites designed for high winds. There are also ways
>to make kites fly in high winds.
>
>A number of kites with window screen or netting replacing parts of the
>sail are available. The screens reduce the pull and slow the kites
>down. Examples of these kites are the North Shore VIP (designed by net
>person Darrin Skinner) and the Mariah, a Trilogy/Legend design.
>
...
>
>One can often replace the sticks in a kite with stiffer sticks and fly
>them in higher wind. 
>--------
>  Marty Sasaki				mss@das.harvard.edu
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:51:21 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

George at north@egr.msu.edu suggests neon colors:

> Ok the r.k logo is fine but how about using brighter colors then red and
> black? Something like Hot Pink and Blue? Or any of the neon colors. 
> I think they would stand out better!

I would suggest from my work with color (its my living), that one neon color
is good, but two neon colors will not produce sufficient contrast and for good
readability.  For instance neon yellow would be tough to read from any distance
if it was paired on neon green or neon pink, or even neon blue.  Using the HLS
color scale, neon colors are considered high saturation/high lightness colors;
the best contrast with such colors is a low lightness (and even low
saturation) color (eg: black, navy, mauve, forest green, deep ruby, etc). 
This is why I would suggest only using one neon color in our combo. 

Having said that, let`s choose a color pair already.  My suggestion was
red/black, but if people want it neon, I can easily amend that suggestion to
(neon red/pink)/ black.  We also have a neon pink/blue combo suggestion.  Now
if no one has an objection, then lets get some other colors suggestions out on
the air, and have a vote by Monday. 

				Later,

				Dave Butler

    Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: What more could you ask of life? 
    Aviation combined all the elements I loved...  I began to feel that I 
    lived on a higher plane than the skeptics of the ground; one that was 
    richer because of its very association with the elements of danger they 
    dreaded, because it was freer of the earth to which they were bound.  In 
    flying I tasted the wine of the gods of which they could know nothing... 
				Charles A. Lindbergh Jr.
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: steve@gordian.com (Steve Thomas)
Subject: Re: HIGH WIND KITES (LOW ASPECT)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:52:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.033457.42792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>Allen Edwards writes:
>
>I have heard that (BUT HAVE NEVER FLOWN) the Pro-Comp by Renegade Kites
>is a good low wind kite (I think it is rated at 1.5 mph low end)-> fast 
>response to control input at 1.5 mph.
>
>-anyone agree with this?
>

I've flown the Pro-Comp, and I wasn't very impressed.  They put a wisker
(they call it a "sailform") that runs the length of the trailing edge.
This serves to "cup" the trailing edge and supposedly make it perform
better in low wind condiditions.  It flys better without the sailform.
The "cup" traps wind so that it can't flow off the trailing edge, and it
flies more slugishly.  One of these gimmicks that don't work...


>Paul, The "I-like-to-be-pulled-around-by-my-team-kite-and-I-don't-have-
>anything-to-do-with-Renegade-Kites" guy
>

(Steve, the "I-fly-regularly-in-zero-wind-conditions" guy)


Steve Thomas
VisionAire

-- 
---------------------------------
Steve Thomas
steveth@rossinc.com
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: daves@cv.hp.com (Dave Serisky)
Subject: Re: logo
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:17:36 GMT

In article <13528@pogo.wv.tek.com>, daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
|> Just got back from a long labor day weekend, and saw all the articles on
|> logos.  Jeff Burka suggested "r.k" instead of "RK", as "RK" could be someones
|> initials, and Brian Dokter suggested putting "r.k" in a delta shape; both
|> suggestions sounds good to me (though I'd make the delta optional), so lets
|> either have a vote, or just nail it down and call it selected.  ...

How about combining the "@" and "RK" ideas and using "@RK" (or "R@K", or
"RK@")?  This would allow folks that wanted to do something along the
lines of "first_last@RK", "login@hostname@RK".

-- Dave Serisky
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 6 Sep 92 03:04:40 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park


I'd like to see your logo prototype.  I dunno if it's best sent somewhere
for anonymous FTP or if you're just going to mail it out to folks...

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Nat'l Geo Video on Kites?
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:03:41 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


HI!

About a year ago I saw a documentary on PBS (I think) that dealt with 
stunt/power kites, (I think it also included the history of kites) and 
I can't remember if it was on NOVA, Nat'l Geo or what..

The reason I want to know:  This show first introduced me to one of
my favorite hobbies, and it would be nice to have it in a video library.

Does anybody know what the name of the documentary is?  Or is there more
than one floating (no pun intended) around? 

Thanks,
Paul
.__________________________________________________________________.
:                                      :                           :
: THIS SPACE AVAILABLE FOR ADVERTISING : Guip@Oread.Cc.Ukans.Edu   :
:                                      :          or               :
:                                      :Spaceman@Kuhub.Cc.Ukans.Edu:
:                                      :                           :
:                                      :...........................:
:                                                                  :
:__________________________________________________________________:
From: lucifer@ut-emx.uucp (Light Bearer)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Personal Message for Marty
Keywords: Bouncing mail
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:42:21 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas

Sorry for posting, but my mail is bouncing like a congressional check!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hi Marty,
     My mail has been bouncing. I wanted to thank you for
     sending me the SKQ address and phone number. I was able
     to get in touch and they sent me my copy right away.

     See ya at Lubbock.

     Thanks again,
     Dean
----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
 Q           \   | Dean C. Hines, Astronomy | dhines@astro.as.utexas.edu   |
 |-+=========|>  | University of Texas      | dhines@pan.as.utexas.edu     |
/ \         _/   | Austin, TX 78712         | -----------------------------|
-----------------| "No, it's not a spaceship, it's a Stunt Kite... sheesh! |
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:51:36 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <13565@pogo.wv.tek.com> daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
>On the logo issue: we've had one vote for hot pink/black (my vote), one for 
>hot pink/neon blue, and one mailed to me suggesting hot pink/dark blue 


I'll go with hot pink/black.  But for variety, how about any neon color
with black?  I was thinking about making a train of kites (sleds, probably)
with 'r.k' on them, each kite having a different font (well, this *is* a
computer group...might as well take advantage of my DTP! ;-).  If I do
something like that, I don't want all the kites to be the same color.  But
for general purposes, pink-n-black...

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: demon69@zeus.tamu.edu (DEmon, CEO of Hell.)
Subject: Re: logo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 07:22:00 GMT

In article <79542@ut-emx.uucp>, lucifer@ut-emx.uucp (Light Bearer) writes...
[stuff about logos deleted]
>BTW - What ever happened to the FAQ?
>Dean

As the originator of the FAQ, I'll try to explain.
What happenned to the faq was a combination of stupidity on my
part and a failure to follow through on someone else's.

At the end of the fall semester, I passed the faq on to someone
else because I do not have net access during the summer.
Unfortunately, I ended up deleting my only copy that wasn't about
three monthes out of date -- as I said, stupidity on my part.
Unfortunately, whoever I passed the faq to does not seem to be
posting it.  (I understand that it hasn't been posted all summer,
true?)  Also, I no longer remember the name of who I passed it
to.  
One big mess, and I don't have time to compile a new one this
semester.  Anyone else?

	MikeBarrett.
From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: HIGH WIND KITES (LOW ASPECT)
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:34:57 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Allen Edwards writes:
...(high wind question deleted)....
> Opinions on the best low wind kite may also be of interest to some
> and with the kind of winter wind we get here is probably the
> question I should be asking as well.


I have heard that (BUT HAVE NEVER FLOWN) the Pro-Comp by Renegade Kites
is a good low wind kite (I think it is rated at 1.5 mph low end)-> fast 
response to control input at 1.5 mph.

-anyone agree with this?

Paul, The "I-like-to-be-pulled-around-by-my-team-kite-and-I-don't-have-
anything-to-do-with-Renegade-Kites" guy

                                                            
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis)
Subject: Re: ENGINEERING INVOLVED
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:13:45 GMT

I have a feeling that the reason not much engineering is involved in the 
creation of kites is because the sport is still in its infantcy.  I'm sure
that the Wright brothers didn't do computer simulations, wind tunnel testing,
or that such thing weren't done for many years.  It was more efficient, 
time-wise, to simply experiment and find out what worked and what didn't.

Of course, after a while, people wanted to push the envelope and eke out that
last bit of performance.  At this point, mathematical simulation became 
important.

It's the same situation with modern day kites.  It is cheaper, faster, and
easier to simply make a bunch of kites and find out what works and what 
doesn't.  In the future, however, when kite-design has been pushed and 
the limits are being reached, more and more engineering will be required to
get better performance.

Mike Gebis  m-gebis@uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: steve@gordian.com (Steve Thomas)
Subject: Re: Engineering involved in Kite Making?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:24:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.004133.42857@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>I have a question for those people who design and construct their own kites-
>
>How much of the process involved in your kite making involves calculations
>(estimations) of aerodynamic/structural properties, i.e. location of center of
>pressure, the amount of camber, and the frame members spec's to get 
>specific pull (light flight or power- considering the strength-to-weight
>ratio)?
>
>!I know that there is an "artwork" aspect to it (who wants an ugly kite?),
> but how much 'engineering' goes into it?
>
>A curious aerospace engineering student-
>paul
>

George Ham, a world renown designer of parafoils, knows nothing of traditional
or "academic" aerodynamics.  He simply uses trial and error and experience to
figure things out.

It's "engineering" for sure (George was a bricklayer by trade), but there's
not much written in the academic sphere of aerodynamics that applies
specifically to kites.  There are the obvious prinicples, but nothing beyond
what one might learn in a high school course.

I'm sure there'd be a lot more science to kites if more scientists focused on
that area, but big research institutions like NASA are off wasting their time
on things like rocketships and jet airplanes...

Steve Thomas
-- 
---------------------------------
Steve Thomas
steveth@rossinc.com
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)
Subject: Re: Engineering involved in Kite Making?
Reply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:18:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.004133.42857@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
-> 
-> I have a question for those people who design and construct their own kites-
-> 
-> How much of the process involved in your kite making involves calculations
-> (estimations) of aerodynamic/structural properties, i.e. location of center of
-> pressure, the amount of camber, and the frame members spec's to get 
-> specific pull (light flight or power- considering the strength-to-weight
-> ratio)?
-> 
-> !I know that there is an "artwork" aspect to it (who wants an ugly kite?),
->  but how much 'engineering' goes into it?
-> 
-> A curious aerospace engineering student-
-> paul
-> 

	I would say about none.  I prefer the fiddle till it flies
method.  This method is even more fun with rockets, since a badly
built rocket with enough thrust does all kinds of nifty things in the
air.
--
Jason C. Austin
j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: HIGH WIND KITES
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:54:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep9.215422.18986
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

There are several kites designed for high winds. There are also ways
to make kites fly in high winds.

A number of kites with window screen or netting replacing parts of the
sail are available. The screens reduce the pull and slow the kites
down. Examples of these kites are the North Shore VIP (designed by net
person Darrin Skinner) and the Mariah, a Trilogy/Legend design.

Both of the above kites are delta/dart designs.

Many diamond stunters can be flown in high wind. Some have high wind
kits that make the kites fly better in high wind.

One can often replace the sticks in a kite with stiffer sticks and fly
them in higher wind. 
--------
  Marty Sasaki				mss@das.harvard.edu
  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		phone:  617-522-8546
  26 Green Street
  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: demon69@zeus.tamu.edu (DEmon, CEO of Hell.)
Subject: Re: repost of Address FAQ
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:07:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.144210.8085@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, e_splett@trofs.enet.dec.com (Evan Splett - Ottawa, Canada) writes...
>     Thanks, 
>     MikeBarrett.
>     Keeper of the faq.
> 
Excuse, but that's FORMER keeper of the FAQ. 
I weasled my way out of that job fair and square.
If you wouldn't mind, please remove my name from
future repostings, please.

Besides being much busier than last semeseter,
I no longer have any of the files.
Thanks to whoever reposted the addresses.  Do you
have the whole FAQ?

	MikeBarrett.

P.S. My address has changed anyway, so the old address in
the faq and address list is useless.
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Low Cost Stunt Kites
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:59:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep9.215928.19110
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

I have a Spectra Rocket and it is definitely a fun kite, but it does
require about 10 mph to start to move.

Generally, the under $50 kites require more wind since they are
smaller and are usually made out of fiberglass, which means they are
heavy for their size.
-------
  Marty Sasaki				mss@das.harvard.edu
  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		phone:  617-522-8546
  26 Green Street
  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele)
Subject: Re: Kite Tail Tales (Was: Re: Kite Tails)
Organization: Institute of Industrial Science, University of tokyo.
	<1992Sep08.235431.3572@nds.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:10:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep08.235431.3572@nds.com> brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter) writes:
|dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele) writes:
|: I saw an article in a really old Scientific American about simple kites,
|
|Were these strung with the bottom toward the wind or away from the wind?
|In other words, were these just a train of drogues?

I'm not sure what a drogue is.  I beleive the cups had the small opening
pointing downwind, but that's my intuition, and not my memory.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: RLPA80@waccvm.corp.mot.com (John.Reed Maffeo)
Subject: foam plastic plates
Organization: Motorola
Date: 7 Sep 1992 01:14:55 MST

Has anyone tried making dragon kites out of foam plates? I am not
an experienced kite maker and I have never made a dragon of any
kind but I thought that it might be easy to do if I had some relative
dimensions to work with. THX -M-


Newsgroups: rec.kites