From: bc@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Mays, Morgan, & Pinson
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:50:00 GMT
Organization: Fortress Development HQ 404/659-5720
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


 
 Recently, Stephen Dawson posts... 
 
 > Last year there was a trivia question posted that asked what three 
 > players had, over their careers, hit 2,500 hits, 250 home runs and 
 > stole 250 bases. 
 >  
 > Those players were Willie Mays, Jow Morgan and Vada Pinson. 
 >  
 > Can someone with a reference post their exact vareer numbers? And 
 > what team(s) did Pinson play for? 
 
  Here you go... 
 
          G    AB    R H   2B 3B  HR  RBI   BB   SO   SB  AVG  SLG  OB% 
 Mays   2992 10881 2062 3283 523 140 660 1903 1463 1526 338 .302 .557 .383 
 Pinson 2469  9645 1366 2757 485 127 256 1170  574 1196 305 .286 .442 .327 
 Morgan 2649  9277 1650 2517 449  96 268 1133 1865 1015 689 .271 .427 .390 
 
 
   Vada Pinson came up with the Reds in 1958 for 96 at bats.  He played 
  for them through the end of the 1968 season at which time he went 
  to the Cardinals for the 1969 season only.  Then on to Cleveland 
  for a couple years, finishing his career with the 1974-75 Royals. 
  (Indeed, the 1969 outfield of Flood, Brock, & Pinson must have 
  made it nearly impossible to hit a ball in the gap). 
 
    Y'all know about Joe Morgan and Willie Mays, both Hall of Famers. 
  It's not for me to decided who gets in and who doesn't, but I 
  really enjoyed seeing Pinson play when he was with the Reds with 
  a pretty good combination of speed and power.  The HOF voters 
  draw their own lines, not I, but I feel he is one of the ten best 
  players eligible for the HOF who is not in. 
 
    What hurt him the most, it seems, is that he didn't exactly 
  finish his career with a flourish.  At the end of the 1969 season 
  he had just completed 10 years as a full-time player and was 
  still only 31 years old.  His numbers at that time looked like 
  he would be a cinch for The Hall were they to continue.  But they didn't. 
  Ignoring his short 1958 trial, the first ten years are given here. 
  (Taken from James' Historical Abstract where SO's are not listed). 
  Looking at the 10 rows of figures, they are remarkably consistent. 
  These are pretty good numbers for a first 10 years of a career. 
 
          G    AB    R H    2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB  SO   SB  AVG  SLG  OB% 
 Pinson 1538  6239  870 1855 335  96 185  806  398  ??  219 .297 
 AVERAGE 154   624   87  186  34  10  18   80   40  ??   22 .297 
 
    Obviously, from the comparisons above he didn't walk worth a 
  damn and, thus, had a fairly poor on-base percentage.  His lifetime 
  batting average is fifteen points higher than Joe's at a very 
  respectable .286.  Since Vada departed after the 1968 season and 
  Joe didn't become a Red until 1972, they never played together 
  but would have had some teammates in common such as Rose, Bench, 
  & Perez. 
 
    Can anyone explain why he seemed to disintegrate after going 
  into the American League.  Drugs?  Attitude?  Injury? Did he 
  just wear out?  I never figured it out. 
 
    There seem to be a lot of guys who are pretty good for 10 years 
  then either just disappear or never play up to that level again. 
  Raines & LeFlore are two who come to mind immediately.  Ten years 
  is a lot to ask out of anyone.  It's the true superstars who last 
  longer, I guess. 
 
 ---------------------------------------|--------------------------------| 
  Bob Campbell                          |                                | 
  Internet: bc@over.mind.org            |                                | 
  Usenet  : ..!emory!uumind!overmind!bc |                                | 
  Citadel : bc@overmind                 |                                | 
 ---------------------------------------|--------------------------------| 
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball