HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stolte@irit.irit.fr (Nilo STOLTE)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Crimson: 10 periods, Fripp x USA
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:15:15 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse, France

>>albums between the two Crimson periods. Exposure is still dominated by heavy
                     ^^^
  In fact in a rock tree I could find 10 Crimson formations, where the only
constant member (of course) is Robert Fripp. You are probably refering to the
first Crimson period without stopping and the second one, more precisely 69-74,
and 82-??. Although they have stopped for few months in the 69-74 period, I don't
remember how many times. It is a common idea that in every time they have gone
to USA, they returned disjoint. The theory told by someone here that the
perfeccionism of Fripp was not compatible with life presentations is probably true. This could explain also why he didn't delivered "USA". Probably in USA, there was always a big pressure to record live (also said by someone here) that was not Fripp's style, since he has always taken care to seem perfect, dominating absolutly even the most difficult passages. Obviously this is not possible into a
live presentation. We can see that King Crimson was a Fripp's personal instrument to develop his own image using very good musicians. We can notice this by seeing
the unusually high number of the group formations. Inicially there was Sinfield
that had no music contribution to the group but has done the lyrics, the 
illumination in the group's presentations, and has taken care including of the group's dressing according to the current fashion. Even him had dropped the
group. You can imagine a whole musician, with his own ambitions, like the calibre
of Greg Lake, for exemple. Probably Fripp's perfectionism was not only not compatible with live presentations but also with a group cohesion. Probably when
he noticed that the Brufford-Wetton formation was going out of his strict control,
he decided to extinguish the group, coincidently after their tour in USA. The result of their tour was "USA", probably one of the best albums of them, but not
perhaps to Fripp. In this sense I think the Fripp's influence over K.C. was not
so healthy as I've said before. I do think that the Brufford-Wetton formation should have continued, since Brufford and Wetton were wanting it, and since the
best albums are with them.

Nilo.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
From: S954818@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (Mark Pedigo)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:48:11 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

OOPS! Wrong group.  I'll move this one to bluenote...
-mp
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: Live Crimson - the old stuff
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:12:34 GMT

mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:

>To all who have seen King Crimson in concert , past or recently,
>do they ever do any material from their first two albums.? I get the
>impression that they do all this dance-type stuff like "Sleepless".
>Is it because Greg Lake is not there that they can't really do "Epitaph"
>or "In The Court of.."?  What about "Moonchild"? Who sings that ?

The 80's Crimson only did two songs from the 70's band, RED, and LARK'S
TONGUE IN ASPIC PART II. It was interesting hearing Belew do the violin 
parts with guitar feedback. But they didn't do any older material
than that. 70's Crimson was more inclined to do SCHIZOID MAN or CAT FOOD
years after the original recording and members were gone. 

I'd expect that when the new Crimson band arrives they'll do one or two
older tunes live, but that might be material from the 80's or 70's. I
think in the 80's it was more a matter of lack of material that led
them to do "covers" and also that it gave the new band something to work 
out on that included the "essence" of what the band is about. The 80's
band on their first tour would repeat one song as their encore. They 
didn't have a lot of material together. The 1982 and 1984 tour shows were
much longer. 

  - Malcolm
From: ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: PFM - where is the live CD?
Keywords: PFM - Premiata Forneria Marconi
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:14:25 GMT
Reply-To: ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <19283@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> borella@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Mike Borella) writes:
>In article <2588@irit.irit.fr> stolte@irit.irit.fr (Nilo STOLTE) writes:
>>  Does anybody in Europe know one place where the live CD of PFM is being sold? 
>>I've been in London 2 months ago but I couldn't find it. Someone has told me that
>Yeah, and their CD's used to be everywhere.  There's the live album
>"Cook", which has made in to CD, and also another one (I'm pretty sure
>its different) recorded live in Italy, which was released on CD.

There's two live ones available on CD that I know of:

 1. LIVE IN THE USA (aka Cook) RCA ND 71838(italian pressing)
    Titles are: Four Holes in the Ground / Dove...Quando / Just Look Away/
                Celebration/ Mr.9 till 5/ Alta Loma 5 till 9.
    This one was recorded on the tour following the release of "The World
     Became The World"

 2. LIVE IN CONCERT  Harlequin HCD 101
    Titles are: Paper Charms / Out Of The Roundabout / Four holes in the
                Ground / Dove e Quando / Alta Loma 5 till 9/
                Chocolate Kings.
    Recorded on the tour following the release of "Chocolate Kings".
    Wayside, in their latest catalog, says of this: "Cannot be Exported
       Outside of North America". Now i'm sure there must be a way
       around that little restriction ;-)

There is at least one more PFM live album, the title eludes me, but it
was released much later, around 1980, and TMK is not on CD yet.


>The best way to find their stuff now is via mail order.

peter (ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com)  "The Lighthouse Keeper"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: tbmg9061@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thomas B MacIukenas)
Subject: Re: Another UK question -- what happened to `Alaska'?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:41:45 GMT

chrisley@oxford.ac.uk (Ronald L Chrisley) writes:

>By the way, anyone:  do the US CDs of UK have lyrics?

I have the US release of Danger Money on CD and all the lyrics are there.
(Unfortunately I can't *read* them because my landlord 3 years ago didn't
tell me about the leak in my cieling, but that's another story.  :^(  )
-- 
___-Tom_Maciukenas_(tbmg9061@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)______________________________

Lisa : Perhaps there *is* no moral to this story.
Homer: Exactly!  It's just a bunch of *stuff* that happened.  -The Simpsons
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: King Crimsom: The Great Deciever
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:00:29 GMT

In article <sjames.722317340@adam.adelaide.edu.au> sjames@adam.adelaide.edu.au  
(S James) writes:
> Could someone who has been able to pick up the new live King Crimson :
> The Great Deciever post a track listing.
> I am eager to find out what is on this set as it is a bit slow in getting
> to Australia.

Did my posting not go out???

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
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From: stolte@irit.irit.fr (Nilo STOLTE)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: RE: FUNKY CURIOSITY????
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:28:24 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse, France

>>>to define funky, but I don't think the terms funk and progressive are 
>>>mutually exclusive unless you want to define prog rock as just Asia, Yes, 
>>>Genesis and ELP...

  Well I tend to be much more radical. Definitivelly Yes, Genesis and ELP are
progressive rock groups, but depends also. What Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, King
Crimson are doing right now don't look "progressive" for me in the sense of the
original progressive style from beginning of the 70's. Marillon  WAS perhaps one
of the groups that outside the 70's were progressive in this sense. I don't know
too much about Asia, but what I've heard of them don't look progressive at all.
  Can you say for exemple that "Red Hot Chili Peppers" is progressive? For me
some of the stuff of them look psychodelic, not progressive. You know that
progressive rock is something that came after psychodelic. You see for exemple
"Ummagumma" from Pink Floyd. For me it is just both things, since it is not only
psychodelic, but also starts to be progressive. So, in this sense I think you
cannot sometimes separate psychodelic from progressive, but surely you can do to 
funk and progressive...

Nilo.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: sarazion@athena.mit.edu (Sara M Zion)
Subject: Re: progressive?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:03:43 GMT

dan(n) writes:

>Would someone please give me a workable definition of "progressive" that
>includes Peter Hammill, but excludes Tori Amos, Sara McLachlan, Julian Cope,
>the Butthole Surfers, and recent Tom Waits?

Sure. To be considered "progressive", Robert Fripp must appear on at least
*three* of your albums (whether solo albums or albums with your band). Also,
you *must* appear on Peter Gabriel's latest album. There; I'd say that the
definition is "workable"  and that it includes Hammill but none of the others
mentioned. Simple.

>-dc

-sz

"Because, hey, what could be more progressive than Fripp and Gabriel?"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis
From: mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:36:27 GMT
Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Nov16.102550.21682@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.231533.9658@bmerh85.bnr.ca> reaume@bmerh962.bnr.ca (Andy Reaume) writes:
>>IMHO, the Genesis mutation occurred with the release of _And Then There
>>Were Three_ in 1977. 
>
>And Hackett's first solo album was an absolute stunner eh?
>
>Michael Traub
>BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@btcs.bt.co.uk

No... not really. (-8
Hackett's first album _Voyage of the Acolyte_ (which featured Phil
Collins on drums and Mike Rutherford on bass) has a few fine moments,
like "Ace of Wands" and "Tower Struck Down", but overall it's not as
strong as anything that followed. Hackett's first solo album was
released after The Lamb... and before _A Trick of the Tail_. 

_Please Don't Touch_ was done after _Seconds Out_ and is very good -
_Spectral Mornings_ & _Defector_ are even better. One thing's for sure,
any of these three albums is far better than anything Genesis has done
since _Wind & Wuthering_ (IMHO of course).
- Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Borowiec  -  HAM Radio Station N9EUZ  -  mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us
  >>> Dedicated to the Pursuit of Computer Assisted Time Dissipation <<<
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: kalang@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (kenneth.lang)
Subject: Re: PFM - where is the live CD?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:22:50 GMT
Keywords: PFM - Premiata Forneria Marconi

In article <19283@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> borella@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Mike Borella) writes:
>In article <2588@irit.irit.fr> stolte@irit.irit.fr (Nilo STOLTE) writes:
>>Hi everybody!
>>
>>  Does anybody in Europe know one place where the live CD of PFM is being sold? 
>Yeah, and their CD's used to be everywhere.  There's the live album
>"Cook", which has made in to CD, and also another one (I'm pretty sure

I just came across a PFM CD the other day called PFM - Live in USA. It has the
same tracks as Cook so I assume its a re-release under a different name. THe
price is still the same, though. $26 US. 


-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
**    Ken Lang                                              AT&T          *
*"The dust blows forward and the dust blows back on the toads of the      *
* short forest and every newt in Idaho."- A sampling of Don Van Vliet & FZ*
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: white@hydro.mps.ohio-state.edu (The Master)
Subject: Re: DAVID CROSS: MEMOS FROM PURGATORY
Organization: S.H.A.D.O.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:21:36 GMT


	I remember an album around 1985 which featured David Cross and
Keith Tippitt, but I can't remember the exact title or album label; the
title is something like "Low-Flying Aircraft".  Beyond that, Cross appears
on Clearlight's second album, "Forever Blowing Bubbles".  I don't know of
any other post-Crimson stuff he's on.

Dave White
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Dave White                       |  Lake Shore Cryotronics              |
|  Software Engineer                |  64 E Walnut Street                  |
|__white@hydro.mps.ohio-state.edu___|__Westerville, Ohio 43081_____________|
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: ASIA tour dates needed *ASAP*
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 05:42:11 GMT

If someone can get me Asia USA tour dates for the next week or
so, please let me know ASAP. I need to know the venue as well.

I need these *RIGHT AWAY* if possible.

Thanks,

Anil Prasad
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca







Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: New Crimso Box Out!!!!
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:46:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.034732.13198@bmerh85.bnr.ca> blindsay@bmerh9f5.bnr.ca  
(Brian Lindsay) writes:
> 
> Is there no one out there with a bit of time to
> post a track listing? Some of
> us are dying of curiousity and the thing hasn't shown up
> here yet! Thanks!

Uhm, I thought I *did*. Did it not make it? I can re-post it if required...


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: fgomez@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Faustino J. Gomez)
Subject: Re: Happy the Man info wanted
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:55:20 GMT

In article <CHYDE.92Nov18124904@pecos.ads.com> chyde@pecos.ads.com (Clinton Hyde) writes:
>
>i'd echo this. the unusual rhythms remind me of Gentle Giant. the CD
>Retrospective is good. for the moment, i'd recommend hunting down the
>LPs. two are not available on CD (their last one is, strangely enough,
>but not the first one, which I think is best, but that's because I saw
>them a few months before its release).
>
> -- clint

   Both of the Lps ARE out on CD from Japan.  Also, I think comparisons
between HTM and GG/Camel tend to be rather spurious and expedient. Similarities
between Camel and HTM (in terms of feel) are less a matter causality than 
collaboration.  HTM's work sounds most like the Camel releases of that
same period (and after).  Therefore, it is necessary to note Kit Watkins' 
contribution to both _Nude_ and _I Can See..._.
    As for GG: unlike HTM, there is very little jazz in evidence,
except through the Rock linneage.  HTM is decidedly (esp. Crafty Hands) more
impressionist-- attempting to create a particular sound environment (mood, 
emotional landscape?), the extension of which can be heard in Kit Watkins solo 
work.  Pete Bardens also demonstrated an affinity for this mode of musical 
(or even just auditory) expression, so it is interesting to note that he is 
another respected name in New Age music.     


-- Faustino Gomez

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: Ever seen King Crimson live?
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:46:55 GMT

I saw Fripp live in 1979 in a record store thing, talking and demonstrating
the reel to reel loop system he uses. It was hard to hear him because it
was so crowded. 

I saw Fripp and the League of Gentlemen in 1980 two nights in a row and danced
my ass off about 5 feet from Fripp sitting on a stool. Dancing was mandatory
that evening if you wished to stand on the dancefloor. This was a very hot
band though not as complex as Crimson, song wise. But the lp that was 
recorded by this group has a different drummer and really didn't capture the
intensity of the band at all. Check out some live tapes of this group if
you ever get the chance. 

I saw Crimson live in 1981, 1982 and 1984. Belew's falshy stage presence made
quite a contrast against Fripp's solemn and stationary approach. Bruford
was fantastic. Levin was great too. I think I liked them best in 1984, though
the 1981 show had a lot of energy and a feeling of uniqueness to it. 

I've seen Fripp with the Crafty Guitarists League also. Not as fun as 
Crimson, and a different kind of event all together. It's strange to me 
to see Fripp taken so seriously. Granted, he occasionally deserves it, but
his personality makes him a strange leader and odd spokesperson. 

  - malcolm  
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: oneal@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Spaceman Spiff O'Neal)
Subject: Magma fans?  check out Ruins
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:57:51 GMT

I just checked out a new (i think) band called ruins.
Someone told me they sound like Magma.  I thought , yeah right.
But they do - even down to the unrecognizable language.
the album is called Burning Stone (you might check under
group name burning stone in some of the slower stores, the
cover doesn't make it very clear)

Really cool stuff for the '90s, I was impressed.

-Mike


Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells II
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 00:34:29 GMT
Organization: Usenet Power Elite: Crush-The-Innocent-Newbies Strike Team

martino@buckaroo.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr) writes:

> What were peoples reactions here?  Does everyone agree it is better than
> the original TB? 

'TBII' is a perfectly fine album taken on its own, but given the existance
of the original 'Tubular Bells' there isn't much reason for it, is there?
It makes an interesting companion piece and sounds nice but adds very
little to the themes explored in the original.  I'm much more interested
in hearing what he's going to do next.    

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: mikebo@i88.isc.com (Michael Borowiec)
Subject: Re: Genesis, Hackett
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:31:10 GMT

In article <7rG=Sc=@engin.umich.edu> casey@metaphor.engin.umich.edu (Daniel Scott Casey) writes:
>
>mike et al,
>  Hackett DID play in the states just recently. i saw him in Detroit
>at the marquee. about 150 people showed up for the show. he played
>a lot of new songs that he has been working on, most of which was great,
>some of it very mellow too. the show opened with an intrumental medley
>of some stuff like 'hackett to pieces','myopia','ace of wands', and
>even Los Endos. most of it was instrumental, but he did do
>a song about a vampyre (very out there), camino royale, and the closer
>was 'every day' - awesome!! he also played 'in that quiet earth'.
>the band is different than on 'time lapse' but julian cope on keys
>is still with him.  
>  hackett was hanging out before the show with us in the crowd. its very odd
>talking to someone who you have dreamed about meeting, and just hanging out
>with him. very cool, but kinda sad that he had to play in such a dump
>as the marquee and only 150 people showed.

Yes, a shame American radio doesn't give him more airplay...

>  he did not plan on doing an encore, but we got him to come back out.
>he said the band honestly did not have anything more rehearsed and he was
>sorry for that so he decided to give us some solo classical guitar. so
>what did he give us? Horizons, Blood on the Rooftops. gee, i dont see any
>reason to apologize for that, it was awesome. then he left and we still 
>wanted more so we brought the band out and ripped of an impromptu 12 bar
>blues....what a weird way to end a show....
>  sorry you missed him in chicago. don't you think he must have played
>chicago if he played detroit? maybe not, but for anyone who missed this
>tour, the live cd is worth it and representative of the most recent tour.
>note:drummers on live cd are ian mosely(marillion) and fudge smith (pendragon).
>this may encourage more of you to check it out, or run for cover, as the case
>may be.
>
>Dan Casey

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh.... I've seen him twice at the Park West in Chicago
dor the Spectral Mornings and Defector shows... Awesome stuff...
I'll be truly bummed if I missed a Chicago show.
- Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Borowiec  (N9EUZ)  -  mikebo@isc.com  -  mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us
INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. - 1901 N. Naper Blvd. - Naperville, IL 60563 USA
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Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Help for a Yes newbie
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:35:42 GMT


josh@viewlogic.com (Josh Marantz) writes:

>I gotta agree, HOTS may be the single best Yes track ever, but I
>thought the high note and tension-release was not on "citYYY", but
>right before, on the synthesizer right after "the wind with its arms
>all around me".

Huh? Maybe a difference in way-of-listening... Definitely the citYYY IMO :)

>By the way, even with weak title track, I think that Going For The One
>should be ranked up there with the top 3.  Awaken, in particular, ranks
>with Heart of the Sunrise and Close to the Edge.

Agreed. Going for the One, Close to the Edge and.. Relayer :).

>Strange about Relayer -- I always enjoy it when I listen to it, but I
>never seem to be inspired to put it on.  It doesn't have the hooks to
>drag you back for repeated listenings.

What's the matter with you guys...? Not even able to recognize the best Yes-
album? Huh? :-)))



--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra    hjv@phil.ruu.nl  *  How can I save my dreams
Dept. of Philosophy                      *  in the nightmare, in the flood
University of Utrecht                    *  But I try.
The Netherlands                          *
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Subject: Re: Help for a Yes newbie
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:43:41 GMT
Reply-To: rseymour@reed.edu

In article <JIMBO.92Nov19104306@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com>  
jimbo@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Jim Winters) writes:
> > >what would be the next CD I should buy?
> 
> Andy> 	From your article, you really enjoyed the later Yes, 90125 and
> Andy> _Big Generator_.
> 
> If you want to get further into Yes, starting from 90125 and Big
> Generator as a base (as opposed to starting from their earlier stuff
> and working to the newer stuff), then I would recommend Drama.
> 
> However, you just can't go wrong with Fragile.  :-)

	If you like the version of Yes with Rabin et al., then you should get  
Can't Look Away by Trevor. It's a solo album he did before the stuff on Union.  
Most of the songs are well done and the whole album flows nicely.
	
--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Departments of Physics and Philosophy
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive