HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ras@kepler.unh.edu (Robert A Seace)
Subject: Re: Surrender (was Re: STNG sucks!!!)
Summary: Now this guy knows how to flame! ;-)
Keywords: WARNING: Flamewar in progress!
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:23:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.013640.18940@r-node.gts.org> yung@r-node.gts.org (Amos Yung) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.223257.2212@newshost.unh.edu> ras@kepler.unh.edu (Robert A Seace) writes:
>>
>>	You mean ST2, ST3, and ST6, right?  Well, in ST2, he wasn't really
>>surrenderring, but rather setting Khan up.  And, similarly in ST3 he was
>>setting Kruge and his men up.  ST6 is the only REAL surrender by Kirk that
>>I can think of.  And, he only did it because so much was at stake (namely,
>>galactic peace).  If you want something to count, try counting the number of
>>times Picard has surrendered 
>
>OK. Lets do it, kid. 

	Kid??  Ok, Gramps, take your senility medicine and try it again. ;-)

>If memory serves, Picard surrendered EXACTLY once. 

	Obviously, your memory doesn't serve you very well...

>Namely
>in "Encounter at Farpoint" in order to save the crew from the god-like Q.    
>He did attempt to offer their surrender in "The Last Outpost" (the first
>Ferengi episode) but didn't actually got the chance to go through with it
>due to the circumstances. After that, in the following four and a half
>years, there were only humourous remarks regarding surrendering. So, there,
>once.
>

	Well, that's one...  But, how about "A Matter of Honor", right
off the top of my head...  I can't think of any other direct surrenders
right now (but, that's mainly because I'm not that into TNG), but there
are also ones like "Clues", where he effectively surrenders his and the
rest of the crew's memories, and "Q Who" where he admits defeat and begs
for Q's help, which I would almost count as surrenders as well...  But,
as I said, I'm not going to waste my time hunting for episodes in which
Picard surrendered.  But, I'm sure that there are more than that.  Look,
I didn't start this; I was merely responding to someone who was bitching
about the 3 times Kirk had supposedly surrendered.  I don't much care if
Picard surrenders in every show.  There are far greater things than that
wrong with TNG that I can bitch about... ;-)

||======================================================================||
||  Robert A. Seace  ||  Senior at UNH  ||  E-mail: ras@kepler.unh.edu  ||
||    AKA: Agrajag   ||     CS major    ||  or, maybe: ras@nic.unh.edu  ||
||======================================================================||
"His five-year mission to seek out and explore strange new worlds, and sell
 Advanced Music Substitute Systems to their restaurants, elevators, and
 wine bars!" - So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish

Gene Roddenberry: 1921-1991.  You will be missed.
May your dream "Live long and prosper".

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: phurley@tamu.edu (Philip W. Hurley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: What are we going to do with Alexander?
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:55:14 GMT
Organization: Computer Technology Group, TAEX

>In article <schuncke.716083498@cwis> schuncke@cwis.unomaha.edu (John 
Schuncke) writes:

>>Almost everyone on the net seems to acknowledge that there are some
>>problems with the character of Alexander.   A significant portion of
>>you would like to see him loaded and fired from the aft photon torpedo
>>launcher.

I think that Worf should go ahead and become personally involved in 
Alexander's education as a Klingon. A continuing sub-plot would not be 
difficult centered around Klingon life. It would give everyone the 
opportunity to become more intimately familiar with Klingon ways. It could 
also be tied somehow into restoring Worf's father's good name or moving 
Alexander into a position on the "Council." Remember the punk who was being 
manipulated during the brief rebellion--he was only 15 years old or so. The 
holodeck could be used to put Alexander in front of Klingon philosphers and 
warriors. Alexander and Worf would naturally have to deal with the old 
Klingon ways and the alliance that they now live under. Worf would have the 
opportunity to manifest his Klingonness and Alexander could become the first 
of a "new breed" of Klingon whose understanding of humans is enhanced 
without compromising Klingon "values."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: weapons technology
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:17:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.182655.6426@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> cglover@lonestar.utsa.edu (Calvin G. Glover) writes:
>
>    i was watching one of the old star trek movies the other night and some-
>    thing that had been troubling me for a while suddenly surfaced once
>    again.
>
>    why isn't there a guided photon torpedo?  one would think that in the
>    24th century weapons technology would have advanced sufficiently so
>    that a starship capable of faster-than-light speed wouldn't be on the
>    same hit/miss ratio level as a WWII submarine.


This is due to the fact that the sub-space plasma interface is not
subducted by the same tachyon field that we experience here in normal,
non-reletavistic, reference platforms.  That is to say, the
cross-interfacing boundaries are not compatable.  LaForge explained this
all very clearly in the episode "The Technical Explanation of Dramatic
Effects".  This topic was also further expounded upon in "How Boring
Things Would Be If It Wasn't That Way and I Have Touched The Sky".  I
have these episodes on 8mm video if anybody wants copies.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.current
From: v115p8d6@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (I have a cunning plan...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: STNG episode about homosexuality
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:21:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


I have a question.....WHY does this pop up all the time?


In article <4083@vidiot.UUCP>, brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes...
> 
>******************************************************************************
>*                                                                            *
>*   NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE    *
>*                                                                            *
>*  This newsgroup is no longer in existence.  Please take all ST and ST:TNG  *
>*  discussions to one of the following newsgroups:                           *
>*                                                                            *
>*          rec.arts.startrek.misc              rec.arts.startrek.current     *
>*          rec.arts.startrek.fandom            rec.arts.startrek.tech        *
>*                                                                            *
>******************************************************************************
> 
> 
>-- 
>      harvard\                          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
>Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
>      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
>                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Data's cat
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 03:49:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Summary: know much about cats?

A few thoughts on the subject of Data's cat, Spot.

First, is there some reason I missed that most recent messages are restricted
to usa distribution?

Second, no offense, but how could anyone have heard "Spock" or even 
think for a minute that Data would name a cat anything we couldn't get
a Data-trying-to-be-more-human joke out of?

Next, how many of you folks speculating on how Spot gets food and water
while Data is away have owned cats?  It's fairly rare that a cat is
unable to efficiently regulate his/her own intake of food.  It should
be almost trivial to program the replicator to provide food for Spot
*on request* as it is extremely easy to teach a cat to repeat an action
to get food. Even a vocalization, perhaps.

	Mrrroooww : standard food, usual quantity
	Mrrrrrw   : standard food, limited quantity
	Mmmrt     : variety food

Couldn't resist speculating on possibilities ;-)

Yes, *some* cats eat too much if food is always available - my Grandmother has
one, and though she's finally got his weight down, he still waddles like a
duck!  But I believe this could either be solved by vetrinary medicine in the
next centuries, or perhaps the ship's sensors could monitor Spot's weight as
he jumps up on the replicator shelf! I know lots of pet owners prefer to 
establish feeding times and quantities, but I believe this is more for the
benefit of the owner than the pet.  Once used to the constant availability
of food, most pets *can* adjust to the feeding-time system, but apparently
the reverse change is difficult to achieve. I suppose there are two 'camps'
of philosophy involved here, probably both quite reasonable.  Care to guess
which *I* subscribe to?  

Suppose now we speculate on how Data might program the computer to make it
fun for Spot once in a while?  Live food, or a simulation thereof, is probably
very healty for cats occasionally.  When I visit my parents, sometimes one
of the cats will entertain herself for hours waiting at a gopher hole. When
the gopher shows up, she lunges, one paw into the hole up to the shoulder, and
sometimes, pulling up the doomed little rodent.  Some may consider this
unnecessary, but it certainly is natural!

Star Trek, Data, and the replicator are speculative fiction, but people and
cats are real and not likely to change a whole lot by TNG time.


	I suppose that was a little more than my $0.02 usually
	correleates to, but there you are!

Bob
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: daz@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Dazza Primm)
Subject: Re: ST: TNG & homosexuality
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:36:53 GMT

jkness@IASTATE.EDU (Joel K Ness) writes:

>Anyway to the last post, I'm offended by that behavior and DON'T want to see
>it.
That is your problem, not the same sex couple you find offense from.

--
  Darren (Dazza) Primm, Dept EE Eng, Melb Uni, Parkville, 3052, Australia
 "There's no point in being grown up, if you can't be childish sometimes!"
   Internet: daz@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au  [dazza@ecr.mu.oz.au]  IRC: Family
From: root@bing.UUCP (Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: DS9 to be "less cerebral????????"
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:14:10 GMT
Organization: Bing's Rubber Chicken Factory -- "Our clucks are boneless."

One thing about DS9 that scares me is this bit that's going around about
it being less cerebral.  Geez, I mean, I watch Startrek because it is
cerebral.  If I wanted to see less cerebral shows, I'd be on my couch
with a bag of potato chips watching "Cheers" reruns.

--
Bing H Bang                                  +---------------------------+
Senior Systems Analyst                       | This is my home computer. |
National Data Corporation, Atlanta, GA       | I do not speak for NDC.   |
uucp: gatech!warlord!bing!root               +---------------------------+
From: dowling@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Stephen Dowling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Trivia-Sela
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:45:17 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:
>
>Yep, we knew that too.  I even made note of this appearance in the ST:TNG
>Program Guide.

How does one acquire one of these "Program Guides?"

Please e-mail if appropriate.
 
steve dowling
dowling@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: tek@ms.uky.edu (Thomas E. Kunselman)
Subject: Re: Something different from the rest
Keywords: Trek Trekker Trekkie To Trek
    <Bu7t6L.7E2@acsu.buffalo.edu> <laojghINN88m@ozona.cs.utexas.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:48:57 GMT

jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey) writes:

>Or some such.  In any case, Star Trek has always been utopian, but it
>has made the appropriate genuflections in the direction of those who
>feel a global conflict is much more likely than a peaceful and enlightened
>world state.  I suppose I personally feel that after the dust cleared
>we would have been back to the roaming bands of barbarians and the
>feudal fiefdoms, and all that.

I thought fromthat one episode with Q, that the earth had turned back
to a barbarous state, as you mention.  Afterall, two hundred years to
recover  wouldn't seem extreeme.  Didn't we have roaming bands and
fiefdoms as little as 3 or 4 hundred years ago?   So 2 hundred years to
recover given that people would have the myth of technology as well as
the resources of books and other rubble that they could dig up, 
doesn't make it seem unlikely that a 200 year recovery was all it took.


>-- 
>Jonathan Abbey                                 jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu
>the university of texas at austin             "He's cleaning up his systems
>computer science/math/psychology               to keep his nature pure" - Rush
-- 
Thomas Kunselman                               {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!tek 
Office of Planning & Assessment          	bitnet: vaatek@ukcc.bitnet
#8 Administration Building			internet:tek@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky
From: william@cs.arizona.edu (William E. Hertling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Actors' Other Roles [1/1]
Date: 5 Sep 92 20:57:54 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <92248.063440U16028@uicvm.uic.edu> U16028@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>>Leonard Nimoy
>>-----------------
>>Television:  The Alpha Caper; Assault on the Wayne; Baffled;
>>             In Search Of... (host); Marco Polo; The Missing Are Deadly;
>>             Mission Impossible; Star Trek; The Sun Also Rises;
>>             A Woman Called Golda.

>Leonard Nimoy also did a guest spot as a reporter in one episode of
>either the old "Twilight Zone" or "Outer Limits" televison series.
>
>He also played Sherlock Holmes on the stage in a play titled "Sherlock"
>(I think that was the title).  He was very good and the audience got a
>big kick when, at a crucial moment in the play, he paused, looked at the
>audience, and in his best Spock look and voice, said "Fascinating!"

Speaking of guest spots, Leonard Nimoy also appeared in one episode
of "Get Smart" as a CHAOS agent. I don't remember the name of the
episode, however I do remember that it has to do with a pool table
containing a CHAOS transmitter and codes to decipher CHAOS transmissions.

Also to add to the general list of roles people appeared in, Denise Crosby
also starred in another movie that noone mentioned. I have it on videotape
somewhere, and I'll try to post it within a day or two.

- William

Internet: william@cs.arizona.edu
     (or) dragon@its.brooklyn.cuny.edu
Bitnet:   dragon@bklyn.bitnet
From: scherf@maple.swdc.stratus.com (Steve Scherf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Creation convention on 9/5
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:47:38 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

I attended the Creation Star Trek convention at the Masonic Auditorium in
San Francisco on Saturday 9/5. There were several speakers of note, but
the main two were Johnathon Frakes and another woman whose name I have
forgotten. The latter is one of the beaurocrats behind the show.

According to this woman:

1] The sixth season is a done deal. They're signed up for the usual 26 episodes.

2] The seventh season is still in negotiations, and is a definite possibility.

3] They read the net.

4] They are accepting unsolicited potential scripts from anyone this season.
   This is apparently a new policy.

She also mentioned something interesting in passing. Remember the episode where
Picard is stuck on some planet with the captain of an alien ship, and they can't
communicate because of the weird syntax of the alien's language? The whole
sequence down on the planet was filmed directly beneath the giant Hollywood
sign.


According to Johnathon Frakes:

1] Deep Star Nine, premiering in January, will have Colm Meaney (O'Brien) as
   a regular. Patrick Stewart will be in the first episode. Johnathon Frakes
   is not currently included in any of the episodes.

2] The love interest between Riker and Troi has been "swept under the rug"
   by the producers, and is essentially history. This gives the characters
   room for "other alien interests".

3] There is currently no plan to make a ST:TNG movie. "The passing of the
   baton" was supposed to happen in Star Trek VI, but it didn't as we all know.

4] Tasha Yar is not ever coming back. That is not to say that Denise Crosby
   will not reappear from time to time.

Some other items of interest. Frakes mentioned some of the dumber things he has
done during the filming of the show. Remember the episode where Riker eats
from a bowl of grub worms with members of Star Fleet Command? They were real
grub worms, and he wasn't really supposed to eat them. Doing so was an
impromptu act that he now seems to regret. The dish "Parthos ala Uta" he ate
in one episode was really pineapple dyed green. The dye didn't work very well,
and they had to scrub his lips and teeth raw between each take. In the episode,
"Skin of Evil" he gets sucked into and spit out of a black mire. The stuff
was actually made of mucilage and black printer's ink; he does regret doing
that.
--
Steve Scherf					Stratus Computer
scherf@swdc.stratus.com				2065 Hamilton Ave.
(408) 559-5616					San Jose, CA 95125-5905
Why fault tolerance? What if your car's brakes worked only 99% of the time?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: mlkenned@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Melita L Kennedy)
Subject: Looking for 1991 Star Trek Ornament
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc  
Summary: please have pity [grin]  
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:24:13 GMT

The mother of one of my friends wants to get her daughter last
year's Hallmark Star Trek ornament for Christmas this year.  I
told her best hope was for me to ask on the net.  So.  I have
no idea what her limit is, although I warned her it would 
probably be expensive.  Anyone have an extra?

Thanks in advance!

Melita Kennedy
mlkenned@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: mcgead@operators.its.rpi.edu (Darren McGeary)
Subject: Next QVC special
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:11:27 GMT

   Could somebody tell me when the next QVC Star Trek special will be?
My wife said she would buy me the Star Trek boxer shorts that might be
for sale. :)

-- 
Darren McGeary -  mcgead@rpi.edu          Freedom of religion means freedom 
PRO-CHOICE - THE AMERICAN WAY             FROM religion!!
Banish religion from government!          -These are my opinions. They just
Atheists Unite!!                           happen to also be the right ones.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: Sexism and Plunging Necklines
Reply-To: jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 04:13:46 GMT

mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) writes:
>Huh?  Don't forget that Betazoid weddings require nudity.

I wasn't talking about Betazoid weddings.  I was talking about
Troi's ever present bosoms wherever she goes.

>They also have a high sex drive (Riker was surprised by this)
>so I'm surprised that Troi does not reveal her body even more.

No, they have a high sex drive at a certain age.  I think you
need to pay attention to the episodes a little more.  Still,
I never spoke of this in my post as it is completely off-topic.

>Also, Troi did wear other clothes in earlier episodes.

Why doesn't she now?  Because ST:TNG producers want larger audiences
who think that looking at Sirtis' bosoms is a great program.  The
cleavage only hurts the show.

>Now she is dressing more like a Betazoid (actually, more like a
>half-Betazoid, which she is :)

What does this mean?  How is she dressing "more like a Betazoid"?
There's only one on the Enterprise.  Her mother is an ambassador that
has nothing to do with Starfleet.  You still have yet to address the
topic at hand.

>Besides, titles should be sex-neutral, since it does not matter
>whether the professional is male/female/both/neither.

Exactly!  So why is 'sir' used?  'Sir' is a term for addressing
a male figure of authority.

>Otherwise,
>we will be forced to invent new words just to please everyone:
>Doctress Crusher, Counseloress Troi, Lieutenantess Saavik,
>Chief Engineeress <name>, Admiraless <name>, etc.  English is
>hard enough already without inventing unnecessary words (try
>putting that in the Universal Translator).

Wrong.  At most, we need one term to address anyone of higher rank.
If that term were, <X>, then a common line on ST:TNG would be "I'll
have that dilithium chamber up in 2 minutes, <X>".  Very simple, not
sexist.  Why the show doesn't use it makes no sense to me.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- No NeXTmail please
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: Sexism and Plunging Necklines (Was Re: What would you do ... ) 
Reply-To: jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 05:16:02 GMT

smp@gtech.com (Sergio M. Pedro) writes:
>Ohhhh, please!  If you are going to get on a soap box, then get a clue!

Something you should get based on the inconsistencies and irrelevancies you
write about.

> The way these females dress has a lot to do with what a.) there
> bodies are like and

Who are "these" females?  I'm talking about one character and how she
dresses.  I'm also drawing parallels to how this woman's dress reflects
what men put women through today.

>b.) what the producer wants to expose and nothing to do with what they will 
>wear in the future.

Nobody knows what all women (or even the majority) will wear in the
future.  What future are you talking about?  10 years from now? 20?
30?  And what does fashion have anything to do with what I was talking
about? And the only point in your whole post that makes sense "what
the producers what to expose" is correct only in confirming that
Troi's bosoms have nothing to do with the show.  Her breasts have
nothing to do with her career as counselor on the Enterprise.

>However, if you do want to imagine what they will wear in
>the future, then I suggest you cruise down virtually any street of a nearby
>city or go into one of the thousands of malls across the country and take a
>look at how most of the women dress.

How do you account for fashion changes?  What's "in" today will be
"out" 2 weeks from now.  How can a dress pattern that you see today
predict what will be worn in the era ST:TNG describes?  Get a clue.

>Even in a conservative business environment, 
>women are dressing more and more to show.

What?  What does this mean?  So, when women are dressing more (aka
putting on more clothes) they show more of their body?  What?  You
should learn how to create readable sentences.

>I value women a lot more than as
>objects and [...]

You shouldn't view any woman in real life as an object.  What a fool
you are.

>After all, the way to change the future is to change the present first!

What the hell are you blabbering about?  Get with the thread.

From the signature line:
>"Ever notice that Action and Accomplishment both start with the same letter?"

So does ass and apathy.  So what?
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- No NeXTmail please