HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth Dimensions - the FIG journal
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:07:05 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

In article <3213.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us>
	LRWEBBER [larry] writes:
+ 
+I wanted to take the opportunity to congradulate FIG on last FD. The  type of
+articles interests me greatly. Being a user of several PD Forths ( all listed
+in G. Kelly's comparison) were VERY interesting to me. It also gave me some
+basis of comparison against some commercial systems. Very good.

I want to second that congratulations.  Well done.  That was one of the
better issues in recent memory.

-Doug
---
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:54 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 33
Message 2         Mon Mar 30, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 21:39 EST
 
It would be very appropriate for some non-ANSI group to work on graphics
standards.  If such a thing gets published, picked up by several implementors
& becomes widely used, it can than then be considered when ANS Forth is re-
evaluated five years after adoption.
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Files on-line
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:33:59 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 1,  Topic 3
Message 142       Mon Mar 30, 1992
GARY-S                       at 06:17 EST
 
  
 Number: 2608  Name: BESTOF04.92
 Address: GARY-S                Date: 920329
 Approximate # of bytes: 10880
 Number of Accesses: 1  Library: 1
 Description:
 This Best of GEnie column conatins recaps of guest conferences with
 Jim Callahan "OOPS in Harvard Softworks", Mike Ham "Teaching Forth
 as a First language", Mike Haas "JSR Threading", Greg Bailey "The
 Costs and Benefits of ANS Forth", Paul Thomas "Using CREATE ... DOES>",
 Ron Braithwaite "Professional Impact of dpANS Forth" plus a notice
 about the possible future of the guest conferences.
 Keywords:
 Best,GEnie,Dimensions,guest,Callahan,Ham,Haas,Bailey,Thomas,Braithwaite
  --------

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: From the xCFB's / ForthNet
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:43 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-04-92 (14:52)              Number: 30977 of 30984 (Echo)
   To: STEFAN BAKER                  Refer#: NONE
 From: JERRY SHIFRIN                   Read: NO
 Subj: Hello and ??s                 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 SB>       New to the echo and would like to know more about it.  Do the
 SB>users on GEnie receive the messages that we post in the RIME echo or are
 SB>we just eavesdropping?

 Others can probably answer this better, but there are several mail
 interchanges involved in Forthnet.  If all works properly, you should
 be able to converse with any other Forthers whether they're on RIME,
 MetroLink, GEnie, Usenet, or the handful of others like LMI, RCFB, and
 Monument.

 I'll pass on your other questions.  Perhaps someone else...
 ---
    RNet 1.08G:  ForthNet: The Monument Board   Monument, CO   719-488-9470
 <<<>>>
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Non-Forth systems/languages.
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:46:38 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-12-92 (17:21)              Number: 31036 of 31038 (Echo)
   To: GARY SMITH                    Refer#: 31022
 From: RAY DUNCAN                      Read: NO
 Subj: NON-FORTH SYSTEMS/LANGUAG     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 Re the comment about resizing files under UNIX from Tom Almy -

 Thanks for this correction, although I coulda sworn that I used this
 trick under UNIX at some point in the past - SCO or HP or whatever.
 Obviously my memory was faulty!
 <<<>>>
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From: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Foreign Language Interface (was: Re: Symptoms of FIGs (and Forth's) Illnesses)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:22:02 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

In article <1992Mar19.193951.7963@email.tuwien.ac.at>
	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Martin Ertl) writes:
+So we need a foreign languege interface (today mainly to C and FORTRAN).
+ Then we could just say, e.g.:
+ This program needs ANSI Forth with the foreign language interface wordset
+ and POSIX and the statistical package XYZ in FORTRAN.
+ Or: This program needs ANSI Forth with the foreign language interface
+ wordset and the X-Window Toolkit.

+However, this is a hard nut. While it is easy to specify calls from other
+ languages to Forth and vice versa, complex data (i.e. structs or objects)
+ pose problems. Most languages leave the layout unspecified, so how do we
+ build them portably? The only solution I can come up is: select a few
+ languages and provide equivalents of their data type definitions in Forth.
+ Any better idea?

I think that that is a non-issue.  Inter-language interfaces don't really
belong in the ANSI Forth standard document.  It is beyound the scope of
the standard to specifiy how other languages do procedure/function call,
parameter passing, etc.  Personally I think that such linkages actually
form an ADT and as such there should be a group of words that implement
that ADT by doing whatever machinations are required in order to get
the data/control-flow out of Forth and into whatever else.  Now, to have
a standard way to specify the Forth half (Such as the name of the foreign
function, and which parts of which stacks are relevant parameters...).

-Doug
---
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: for us beginners?  Help
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:08:35 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 2,  Topic 5
Message 83        Sat Apr 11, 1992
F.SERGEANT [Frank]           at 22:54 EDT
 
  Richard Cooke asks for "an easy way to determine which bit
 in an 8 bit number is set if one and only one bit is set out of the
 8"
  Assuming you want an answer from 0 to 7, ie, ( 1 - 0), ( 2 - 1), ( 4 - 2),
... ( 128 - 7), you are asking for the base two log of n. Here is a solution
in Pygmy
        : BIT# ( c - position) 
          -1 SWAP ( position c)
          BEGIN ( position c)  DUP WHILE     2/    1 +UNDER    AGAIN
          DROP ( position)  ;
 The following is an extract from a message posted by Wil Baden  in July of
1990:
     : lg ( n -- "log base 2 of n")
        1+   -1 SWAP ( lg n) 1 DO ( lg) 1+   I +LOOP ;
  -- Frank
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:46:34 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 1,  Topic 2
Message 183       Mon Apr 13, 1992
D.RUFFER [Dennis]            at 22:04 EDT
 
Re: STEFAN BAKER

 > Will someone please tell me why GEnie is the service of choice.

At the time we were making a decision about how to run the FIG bulletin board
(5 years ago now), AOL didn't exist (they've only just recently opened up to
anything other than Macs) and GEnie _was_ the lowest cost alternative.  BTW,
prior to GEnie, there was a FIG board run by John James in the Bay area and
there was quite an active email group on Delphi.  Experiences gained from
doing it on our own are (partly at least) why we choose to use someone else's
hardware.  Delphi couldn't handle (their words) our anticipated library size
and CIS wanted too much money to start a SIG.  GEnie welcomed us with open
arms (they were hungry for more areas at the time) and still give us free
reign on what we want to do.

   {B-{)>   DaR
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: pazsan@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Bernd Paysan)
Subject: Re: Electronic Distribution of Draft Standards
Originator: pazsan@hphalle9b.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:10:26 GMT


M. Anton Ertl writes:
>So, could somone (i.e. the ANSI Forth TC members) get this message to ANSI.
>I'm sure that "ISO is more state-of-the-art than ANSI" will make them
>act:-) I guess that the drafts for this ANSI Forth will not yet be
>distributed electronically and freely, but hopefully the drafts for the
>next standard.

The next standard will be the ISO Forth standard :-). And I hope, we will
be able to cooperate better than with ANS-Forth.

Remember ANS is American National Standard, this is not a open standard, it
is proprietairy (although nothern America is a continent: it is only one of
seven :-).

I agree totally with your opinion, that a draft proporsal is wasted paper
until it is changed again, but take a heart: the last dpANS-Forth is not
changed, it gives directly the ANS-Forth after it was accepted --- without
further changes! And the changes to dpANS from BASIS17 where so minor, that
you can work with the informations of Mitch Bradley on the last Euroformel
(only a few hundred kilometers from Wien and published in the "Vierte
Dimension," you should be able to get it.
-- 

Bernd Paysan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only language computers can speak, is /^^^^ /^^^\  /^^\ ^^/^^ /   /
You can't speek the other languages.     /     /    / /   /  /   /   /
                                        /---  /    / /---'  /   /---/
                                       /     /    / / \    /   /   /
                                      /      \___/ /   \  /   /   /
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: pazsan@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Bernd Pazsan)
Subject: Re: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Originator: pazsan@hphalle9b.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:46:25 GMT


B.DUNN5 [Brian] writes
>Does it make more sense to assume a 16K by 16K virtual pixel space on all
>machines and end up with non-circular circles due to aspect ratios and such,
>or does it make more sense to do like XWindows, and do all graphics with fixed
>pixel coordinates which might happen to go off the edge of the screen?

I think, it makes most sence to have a real metric (pica points, inches or
mm), like in PostScript, TeX and so on. It is easy do compute the real
coordinates (with one */). And it is easy to define metric words. So the
drawing primitives should use the pixel metric (including the aspect ratio,
because this can't be factored out), and there are words like INCH or PP
(pica point) or MM (mili meter), defined like this:

: INCH ( inch -- pp ) 7227 100 */ PP ; \ one inch is 72.27 pica points

Using 32-bit fixpoint arithmetic like in TeX would be nice, but to clumsy in
a 16-bit Forth.

A real metric is the only way to determine what you see if you draw
something.
-- 

Bernd Paysan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only language computers can speak, is /^^^^ /^^^\  /^^\ ^^/^^ /   /
You can't speek the other languages.     /     /    / /   /  /   /   /
                                        /---  /    / /---'  /   /---/
                                       /     /    / / \    /   /   /
                                      /      \___/ /   \  /   /   /
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANS FORTH TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:36 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 2
Message 147       Mon Apr 06, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 01:34 EDT
 
JAX has mentioned a possible May meeting.  At this time, there appears to be
no need for such a meeting; it will be cancelled.

The responses are ready to be mailed as soon as our Document Editor, John
Rible, is finished making the changes & produces a "change document" showing
changes made.  This should be in the next week or two.

In addition to Mitch's observations about the time spent in meetings &
preparation, I can add that it took >40 hrs just to edit the responses that
the TC wrote and passed into a 150-page document that will go to all
commentors.

RE the 15-day response period:  If you are displeased with your response,
we'll certainly be happy to hear from you, but we are not required to take any
further action.  Such responses will be appended to the document as
"unresolved negatives" when it eventually goes to X3 for review.  They will
determine whether, in their opinion, we handled the comment responsibly.  And
X3 is pretty flexible in their interpretation of that time frame.

To commentors in general:  we really appreciated the feedback, especially the
many typos reported and unclear things that you uncovered.  A lot of effort
was invested, however, in raising issues that, as Mitch says, have already
been argued exhaustively.  As it's indisputably hard for you to know what
falls into that category before you propose it, I recommend that folks "test
fly" such proposals either here on the net or in a phone call to any TC member
(names listed in the front of the document) before putting lots of work into
them.

Cheers...
-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:33:50 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 03-31-92 (13:37)              Number: 30924 of 30927
   To: B.RODRIGUEZ2 [BRAD]           Refer#: 30890
 From: ANIL RODRIX                     Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 Regarding your suggestion of 'getting started ' packages with various
 Forths, it sounds attractive to me.
 I use forth in machine control, but when it comes to the PC I am lost,
 and I dont have time to go and root out every litle item .
 I could use something like Pygmy or Zen - and would send $ to register -
 if I knew there was an easy to find set of clear instructions of how to
 : Create a file
  add byte to a file
 read n'th byte of file
 close file,
 send byte to printer port
 'LOAD' ascii file containing Forth source
 move cursor on screen and emit byte ( char) at location .
 etc etc.
 I wish to print several text files using 4print on the HP III, from
 Forth packages, but they seem to be screens or some other such, and not
 paged normally.
 I cant persuade others to try Forth when the PC links are obscure to
 me.

 PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11             Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:12:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: willett.3262.UUL1.3#5129
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-06-92 (16:27)              Number: 30985 of 30988
   To: STEFAN BAKER                  Refer#: 30928
 From: ANIL RODRIX                     Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 If you or anyone else reads this :
 I am not on any network - Internet, Usenet, etc - I dont have access to
 them. I gave up Genie since they went to a minimum monthly charge, since
 there may be long periods when I dont have the need.
 I am calling one local BBS which carries a bunch of national echoes;
 there are a group of them in town that exchange messages. This is the
 Forth echo.
 I appreciate this alternate connection - for free, tho I pay for
 membership in the group its not required.
 I think the Genie conferencing and message base are a good thing, but I
 dont require them for now . I'm not sure if I receive all the messages,
 but I think I do. Whether all mine go out ( very very few) I'm not sure.
 Cheers!

 PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11             Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: LMI Forth(s)
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:11:27 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-05-92 (03:10)              Number: 30974 of 30975 (Echo)
   To: JIM REED                      Refer#: NONE
 From: JACK WOEHR                      Read: NO
 Subj: FORTH FOR OS/2; URFORTH       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 -> I am very interested in forth in
 -> the OS/2 2.0 environment.

         Ray Duncan of LMI is reachable on this BBS ... he has
 URFORTH for OS/2, should run ok under 2.0 (? >>> Ray?)

 -> As this environment supports just about all
 -> of the available 80386 operating systems within itself.  A conversion
 -> of the MSDOS version of forth should be trivial to incorporate into
 -> OS/2 with additons to allow for a presentation manager library of
 -> functions to the forth system.  Anyway, it could be interesting

         "Interesting" ... "Nerve Wracking" ... Ray is in the process
 of releasing WinForth ... if OS/2 gets up out of its coffin and walks
 among the living, I'm sure he'll upgrade URFORTH to OS/2 2.0.

                 =jax=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth Taught at Schools/Universities
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:05:49 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 2,  Topic 2
Message 85        Thu Apr 16, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 21:17 EDT
 
FYI, the new MS WORD 5.0 for Macintosh has spelling, grammar, syntax, etc.
checkers (could probably write term papers on automatic), and you can
customize it for English vs. American "English", checking for active/ passive
voice (y/n), and many other customizations.  Looks good.
-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: To the xCFB's / ForthNet
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:18:36 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 14,  Topic 6
Message 88        Sat Apr 04, 1992
GARY-S                       at 06:13 EST
 
  
   To: STEFAN BAKER
 Subj: Hello and ??s

 >       New to the echo and would like to know more about it.  Do the
 >users on GEnie receive the messages that we post in the RIME echo or are
 >we just eavesdropping?
   Your query is going out to GEnie, Usenet comp.lang.forth and several
   other destinations as part of the packet of messages I picked up on
   Jim Wenzel's Grapevine this morning (3 April 1992).
   There are bridges between the various nets. I have just described one
   of them.
   That's why you will see the collective term "ForthNet" used in some
   messages.
     Gary
    __         _  Gary Smith           * ... uunet!ddi1!lrark!glsrk!gars  *
   / _' _   _ (_' P. O. Drawer 7680    *     nuucp%ddi1@uunet.UU.NET      *
  /__/ (_|_/ '._) Little Rock,AR 72217 * GEnie Forth RT  &  Unix RT SysOp *
  ---------------        - U. S. A. -  * ph:501-227-7817,fax:501-228-9374 *
                                                         (0800-1700 GMT -6)

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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: fittery@arcturus.amasd.anatcp.rockwell.com (Elmer Fittery)
Subject: How much do FORTH Contractors make per hour?
Organization: Rockwell International
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 15:05:22 GMT

I used Forth and Forth like languages for about 8 years during my early
years in the software industry.  Lately, I was offered a position doing
forth development.  My experience with consulting leads me to think that
$40/hr is the going rate for software contracting.  Is this also true
for Forth types.  It seems to me that when working on a forth project 
in New York about 10 years ago, Forth Inc. was charging $1000 per day
plus expenses for their most qualified people.  Any help would be 
appreciated.

Thanks Elmer W. Fittery  -  Originally from CYBEK - then Rising Star