From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Denver Church of Christ (long)
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:12:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Moderator, sorry to drag this out (I didn't bother posting an ad nauseum
response originally), but this is full of misinformation.  Sorry for the
slight sarcasm.  Post or trash at will.

In article <Nov.18.03.39.45.1992.1008@athos.rutgers.edu> conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt) writes:
>I don't have a complete history of them, and I don't mean to slam
>anyone, but the movement that this church has grown out of has been
>accused of being a cult by many people, including ones who have been
>part of it before.

This statement is also true if the subject is <fill in least favorite
religious group here>.  Favorite so-called "cults" to me are the
Roman Catholic Church, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

>Here's a bried history of the movement, but the accuracy is not 100%
>since I haven't been involved in it.

Certainly understandable.

>The movement began at a church
>in Gainesville, Florida, called the Crossroads Church of Christ.  They
>were fed up with the "old" Church of Christ (coc) attitude that was
>basically stale and self-centered.  I'm very familiar with this attitude
>because I grew up in a small-town CoC which exhibited this.  They 
>decided that they needed to do something about it and especially about
>spreading the Gospel.  Their main emphasis became sharing the Gospel
>with everyone they could get their hands on.  They enjoyed tremendous
>success and still are.  

They were accused of being a cult.  The were "disfellowshipped" by many
"mainline" churches of Christ.  They, though, modeled a lot of what they
were doing after the mega-Madison church of Christ in Tennessee.

>This movement has evolved into one that is termed the "New Church of Christ".

I go to one and haven't ever heard this term.

>world-wide leadership is based in Boston at the Boston CoC where the 
>main minister is Kip McKean.  They have planted many churches throughout
>the world in places like San Fransisco, San Diego, Chicago, London,

Kip is not the evangelist in Boston.  Hey!  You forgot New York!  How
could you forget New York!  ;-)

>The new convert
>is expected to confess his/her sins to the mentor, who in turn, confesses
>them to his/her superior, and on up the ladder to the preacher, who will
>often preach on these specific sins in his sermons.

Huh?  While I'm sure this has happened, gossip is not an *accepted*
practice here.  FWIW, Crossroads was accused of this very thing, also.
We do not betray a confidence.

>Beyond this, their
>practices become extremely (unhealthily) legalistic.  Although they
>can quote Scripture very impressively, the main thrust of their ministry
>is evangelism.

Well, I wish the guys *I* disciple could quote Scripture impressively,
but no cigar.  I'll pass the complement on to them, though.  ;-)

>I've heard many stories of people cornering others in
>church and asking them how many people they've "led to the Lord" the
>past week.

I've heard them, too.  If I remember correctly, the people who were
cornering others got cornered.  Big time.  Apologies all around.
Change. I had a discipler tell me I was seeing my favorite girl too
much.  I asked our evangelist what HE thought.  Sort of quote: "He
said WHAT!?!?"  He married us a little over 19 months ago.  ;-)

The point is, mistakes happen.  Bag the pride and try to understand and
often the dirt just "comes out in the wash."

>I've experienced myself the guilt placed upon me because I
>wasn't real comfortable with shoving flyers in people's hands at a rally
>they sponsored in downtown San Fransisco several years ago.

I understand.  I've done things I was uncomfortable with myself.  Both
at work and church.  To be honest with you, though, if our evangelist
were convinced I could help people by standing on the corner and handing
out tracts, I would try it.  Call me gullible.  Call me brainwashed.
The truth is, I like learning from people, and I happen to trust him.

>The whole
>measure of their spirituality seems to be based on how many non-Christians
>they're teaching and how many people they've baptized recently.

Well, the evangelists *I* know here are teaching the *opposite* of what
this says.  They (and I) wish I would stop measuring my spirituality
this way, telling me (and rightly so) I get my self esteem from my
performance instead of God's love.  Maybe someone (Kip maybe) ought to
come down and set them straight.  ;-)

>A man
>in my Sunday school class this past week was commenting on the church in
>Houston that is a Crossroads church.  He said they had a "score-board"
>listing how many baptisms they'd had over a period of time.

Sounds like a good idea.  Baptisms are a Good Thing.  Of course, you've
NEVER seen attendance or (GASP!) contribution posted on a "score-board"
at other churches!  ;-)

>The dangers of this movement are not really in the goals they are trying
>to achieve, but in the atmosphere of strict legalism that it fosters.
>I've known several people who have deep emotional scars after being 
>involved in this movement.  It's very difficult to experience the love
>of God in such a place when your performance is what allows you to
>receive the love and respect of your fellow Christians.

There are certainly alternative explanations for most deep emotional
scars.  For *most*, the church here has been a place where deep
emotional scars begin to heal.

>This atmosphere causes a very high rate of burn-out.  The church in
>Gainesville has since abandoned this movement several years ago.  There
>is another large CoC in Boston that is comprised mainly of burn-outs
>from the Boston CoC.

Let's see.  Just for comparison purposes, "mainline" churches of Christ
do better than most denominations at retaining converts.  Their retention
rate is around 20%.  The so-called "Boston" churches of Christ run
right at 50%.

>The atmosphere attracts a large number of people
>who have addictive personalities.  They are often recovering substance-
>abusers.  As is often the case with addicts, they substitute on form
>of addiction for another.  And what better form of addiction than 
>religion?  You can justify almost everything you do. But just as 
>substance abuse is unhealthy, so is religious addiction (abuse).

Huh?  (Again).  Not in my experience.  I know a few.  Most are not.
We do, however, pay a lot more attention to this than most.  One of
our evangelists in NYC had previously set up the only government-
approved, church-sponsored treatment home (I forgot what they called
it) in Louisville, KY.  He has worked (and lobbied) hard to help
people like this here, too.

>They seem to have a pat
>scriptural answer to absolutely any objection you might raise.

If this is so, maybe he ought to *read* the scriptural answer.

I HATE writing stuff like this - it makes ME feel contentious and I
HATE conflict.  But it would be wrong for me to allow such horrific
misinformation to continue to be bantered about.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
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