HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov (TED KELL)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Date: 21 Aug 1992 21:36:59 GMT
Reply-To: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Flight Center - Clear Lake City, TX, USA
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1992Aug19.155525.28534@shell.shell.com>, rgh@pern (Richard G. Hash) writes...
>But now you can get exactly what you want - Coleman is now selling a new
>stove which is essentially the Peak-1 burner head on a platform, with
>the MSR-type fuel bottle connector. I forget what the the model is called,
>but it runs about $45-50. I've been waiting for Coleman to snap to this
>idea (for about 7 years!). I bought one yesterday, and it works just
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Did you buy this in Houston?  Where?

>like I think a stove should work. It's got a fine-tune (and auto-clean)
>adjuster and it simmers just like my old Peak-1. The only annoying thing
>is that you are "only supposed to use a Coleman fuel bottle with it", 
>and sure enough, they threaded the neck of the bottle different from
>my MSR bottles. So if you carry > 1 fuel bottle you have to refuel the
>Coleman bottle you must carry. Not that big a deal, but annoying.
> 
>Weight is not much more than Whisperlite, much more stable, can simmer.
>Check it out.
>-- 
>Richard G. Hash
>Shell Bellaire Research Center, Houston TX
>email: rgh@shell.com    ph: (713) 245-7311
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher)
Subject: Little Plastic Fasteners
Organization: University of Chicago, Astronomy and Astrophysics
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:13:49 GMT

I recently acquired a new tent. It came with a little bag containing
some lengths of chord, and for each length or chord, a little plastic
fastener. The fasteners are about 1.25 inch long, 0.5 inch wide, and
.125 inch thick. They have three evenly spaced holes that are big enough
to accept either the chord or a metal stake.

Does anybody know how these plastic gizmos are to be used?


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:25:07 GMT

In article <BGLENDEN.92Aug18110634@colobus.cv.nrao.edu> bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning) writes:
>
>We pack our Peak 1 inside and worry about it leaking; consequently we
>always take along a fuel bottle. Is it safe to pack a filled Peak 1?

I've never experienced a leak (old-style Peak I), but bag it in a
large ziplock baggie anyway.


-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: grp@Unify.com (Greg Pasquariello)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:40:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.153137.12267@ichips.intel.com>, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:

> In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca>, craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:
> 
> > I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
> > any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
> > bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
> > or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?
> 
> > I realize that bears are unpredictable and people don't generally relish the
> > thought (myself included) of encountering one in the backcountry. Yet, I
> > can't help wonder if the posting of such encounters may alleviate the
> > anxiety and fear some may have of going into the backcountry. Or is everyone
> > here seasoned backcountry travellers who wish to handle this kind of
> > situation in their own way?
> > -- 

Well, I've had two encounters with black bears while hiking.  Both were similar
and in the same area.  Although seperated by about two years it could have been
the same bear.

The first time I passed the bear without seeing it.  My friend heard a sound
behind us and as we turned we watched the bear meander across our path, about
50 yards from where we stood.  The bear did not even acknowledge us.  No fear,
no aggression.  He (I think it was a he; it was rather largish) simply walked
on, we simply crouched where we were.

The second time I was sitting quietly on a nearby crag waiting with another
friend to show him a bird peculiar to the area.  Neither of had spoken for
a long time.  Suddenly, I noticed a bear slowly walking in an arc from north
to south, about 100 yards away.  I pointed, and my friend and I watched it
walk 150 or 200 yards where it disappeard behind a small cliff, not to be
seen again.  I'm not even sure the bear was aware of us, as we had been 
*very* quite for some time before.

In both cases I was in Northern NJ where the bears get some contact with 
humans.

The thing to fear in the woods is a nesting Northern Goshawk!!


> > 
> > Craig Knelsen		craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca
> > 			Craig_Knelsen@f20.n140.z1.fidonet.org
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
> Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 

-- 

--
Greg Pasquariello   	grp@unify.com 	        Sometimes you're the windshield
Unify Corporation	   or			Sometimes you're the bug.
(916) 928-6258	    ...!uunet!unify!grp
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Little Plastic Fasteners
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:47:59 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 21927@midway.uchicago.edu, bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher) writes:
|>I recently acquired a new tent. It came with a little bag containing
|>some lengths of chord, and for each length or chord, a little plastic
|>fastener. The fasteners are about 1.25 inch long, 0.5 inch wide, and
|>..125 inch thick. They have three evenly spaced holes that are big enough
|>to accept either the chord or a metal stake.
|>
|>Does anybody know how these plastic gizmos are to be used?

I would guess that they are cord locks (or other similar names). They
are used to form an adjustable loop of cord around a tent peg. Changing
the size of the loop tightens or loosens the cord.

To use, permanently tie one end of the cord to the appropriate tent
loop (Are you sure you don't have instructions with the tent?). Feed the
other end through one hole in the "gizmo" and back out another (many
of these have a little molded in channel for this). Stick the free end of the
chord through the remaining hole and tie a knot to keep it from coming out.

Or you can throw away all the gizmos and learn how to tie a
tautline hitch. ANy book on knots should include this one.



---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: walvdrk@research.ptt.nl (Kees van der Wal +31 70 332 6295)
Subject: Re: Replacing metal Thermarest valves
Organization: PTT Research, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:22:21 GMT

In article <122440161@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan
Silverstein) writes: 

> If you own an older Thermarest mattress with a metal valve...  Write to:
> 
>     Cascade Designs
>     4000 1st Avenue S.
>     Seattle, WA  98134
> 
>     206-583-0583
> 
> and request a plastic replacement.

What's the advantage of the plastic version?

Regards, <kees>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:39:38 GMT

In article <Bt949p.3GF@news.dtc.hp.com>,
chris@cdc.hp.com (Chris Schiller) writes:
>Allen Sanderson (allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu) wrote:
>> In article AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>> >There is also an extreme position that is rarely considered:  Total
>> >closure of an area to all humans, even backpackers and day hikers.
>> >I'm actually in favor of this, at least for finite periods.
>>
>> They actually do this in some areas under the label of research
>> natural area.  The only people who legally have access to these areas
>> are researchers.  There is one that bourders SLC.  The only time they
>> open it up is during deer season and for good reason.  The fences are
>> so high that deer can not get in nor out in most places.  Thus the
>> deer population has to be keep in check or the natural grass land in
>> the area would be destroyed.  For once, man as a preditor is good.
>>
>> Allen R. Sanderson
>
>
>Whoa, hold on a minute.  I don't mean to flame, but it sounds like
>just another case of humans screwing with an ecosystem, and then
>trying to steer it back to what humans think is an equalibrium.
>If there were not fences, then the deer could expand/migrate as
>needed.  In addition, if all of the predators had not been destroyed
>or fenced out, there would never have been a "problem".  As usual,
>man the controller is bad.
>
Right.  I'll also bet that it the fences were taken down and
predators re-introduced there would be all sorts of screaming about
deprevation of the "game supply".  IMHO, deer can take care of
themselves.  They are animal weeds.  They are nearly impossible to
get rid of and thrive in semi-rural area.  I have aunts and sisters
who are constantly gripping about how they can't keep the deer out
of their roses and their vineyards.  But then just suggest that they
ought to stop setting poison bat for coyotes, wolves, etc. and
listen to the protests.
From: millard@acsu.buffalo.edu (Peter G. Millard)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-GK II
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:05:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

maha@elaine15.Stanford.EDU (lakshminarayanan mahadevan) writes:


>Hi,
>	I am trying to make up my mind about buying a good stove that can be
>used in Asia, Africa and S. America with a variety of fuels. While the X-GKII
>is capable of burning almost anything (including varnish!), it is considerably
>more expensive ($79) than the Whisperlite International ($56) which
>burns keroosine besides White gas. As far as design goes, I find the
>Coleman multifuel Peak I ($36) most appealing because it is just one piece. 
>Can anyone advice me on the the pros and cons of these stoves.
>	Thanks,
>	Maha

I've used a regular whisperlite for several years (same basic desgin as 
the international, but just burns white gas), and the older style XGK
on most of the winter trips I've done.

The whisperlite is great in terms of compactness, weight, and field 
maintanence (sp?). (not like the Peak stoves, which are more or less
self contained...they break your up a creek). Someone already mentioned
about the need to prime...which I agree seemed like a hassle, until
I used a Peak and a whisperlite side by side and had to battle w/ the 
Peak to get it to normal conditions (since it suppoidly is self-priming)
while the whisperlite had my water boiling by the time I got the other
pot on the Peak.

The XGK is a totally bomb-proof stove. I've used it on many winter trips
and have found it to be wonderfully faithful, and quite hot (even in
wicked cold conditions :). It's somewhat awkward to carry (because of the
long stiff fuel line), and is quite loud.

Hope this helps.
-- 
******************************************************************************
	Peter G. Millard  *  INTERNET: v057n5um@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu           
 	SUNY @ Buffalo    *          : millard@acsu.buffalo.edu
*****************************************************************************
From: daryl@bovill.auspex.com (Daryl Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose vs. Elk
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:05:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems

In article <1992Aug19.171335.9266@morrow.stanford.edu>, AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
|> In article <1405@yetti.UUCP>,
|> french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French) writes:
|> >
|> >  Ok, so how about caribou?  I was under the impression that
|> >   elk and caribou were the same.   This could become confusing...
|> >
|> >
|> Caribou are essentialy reindeer.  Not really the same as elk
|> although there is some similiarity.  Santa's sleigh is definately
|> not pulled by elk or moose!
 
Caribou and reindeer or NOT the same, but they are similar. I've read of attempts to introduce
Eurasian reindeer in to Alaska with essentialy no success. The reason for the attempt was that
the caribou herds move much to fast for nomads to follow as is done with the reindeer. It
was hoped that reindeer would provide manageable, semi-domestic herds, as in Eurasia. The
reindeer failed in Alaska because their genetic trait of moving slow resulted in starvation. The
forage on the North American tundra is inferior to that of Eurasia. The caribou survive by
moving fast, thereby increasing the opportunity to feed.

Daryl
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: horseshit erosion crowds trash
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:44:36 GMT


In article <e8FX02yd1dbo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>
>Elitist bastard that I am, I'll even say it:
>
>  "Everyone and everything should be banned from the
>   *wilderness* except the small number of people who are
>   willing and able to get there the hard way, and their
>   simple gear.  If impact increases, access should be made
>   more difficult, and more restrictions placed on gear."

Unfortunately, this attitude, when combined with efforts to designate ever
more acreage as wilderness, translates to many people into the statement:
I want to keep you from more and more of the countryside, because I want
the privilege of privacy and isolation, which my special status, health,
and vigor entitles me to.

Since many areas of potential wilderness status are currently open to
travel by means other than walking and "simple" gear, those who don't
want to hike are opposed to extending the wilderness areas. This in turn
leaves many scenic areas open for commercial exploitation, which is the
exact opposite of what is desired by most people. A better compromise 
might be a designation short of full wilderness status that still preserves
access while preventing extensive development.

Regards,
       H. Biesel.
From: tim@ensoniq.com (Tim Scharping)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Going to Oregon
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:40:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ensoniq


Due to circumstances beyond my control I find myself heading
to Portland next week with absolutely nothing to do once I 
arrive.  Since time is short, I am looking for some quick info
on places to camp/hike within a reasonable ( ~2 hours) drive of
the Portland airport.  I will be in the area for 5 days.  

Thanks for any info!!!!


Take Care--
	--tim

PS: do I need to obtain a camping permit???
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Timothy Scharping       Internet: tim@Ensoniq.COM
Ensoniq Corporation	UUCP: ...!uunet!mimsy!widener!gvls1!ensoniq!tim  
Malvern, PA  19355
From: mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM (Daniel Abernethy)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:49:49 GMT
Reply-To: mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: singletrack.ebay.sun.com

oh boy is this gonna be fun.

all this talk about pack animals et al has piqued me out of lurking
so here goes.

I am an avid mtn-biker and trail user/ advocacy activist.  
Why not ban hoofed beasts and use wheels instead???  
Especially in the wilderness where impact should be minimized, contrary 
to popular belief bike tires are less damaging than any hoofed animal and
can carry a substantial load.
Example: the Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese during their many military
skirmishes would load bikes with upwards of 300 pounds and push them to many destinations.

For wilderness SAR a bike can cover/penetrate/search more area and 
foot bound searchers in a much shorter time, enhacing chances of a 
lost persons survival.  Bikes are much quieter than horses, which aids
in hearing/listening for distress calls.  Bikes don't spook, poop, or
need feed.  

Granted, bikes have limitations and should not be allowed free reign on
wilderness areas, but I believe some areas would be quite suitable for
bicycles.

Imagine: 
A 40 mile (80mi.RT) bikepack trip on an old stagecoach route for the weekend.
In an area of rolling hills, mountainous plateau, etc... (not rugged ^^^^^^^^
switchback trails).  I don't think a person would find it very pleasurable
to travel even 15 miles in one day in the backcountry, from the reading
I have been doing on the net 7-10 miles is tough.

Wildlife disturbance:

I have been able to ride to within 10' of deer, waterfowl, birds on my
bike; I can't get within 50 yards with my most stealthy walk to these same
creatures.  Why?? I guess that a bike in motion is seen as a threat.

A cyclist like a backpacker is responsible for their own individual actions.
I will not deny that there are many bozos on their bikes out there, but many of
them are not interested in the backcountry.  I am, and my biggest peeve about
backpacking is the limited range.  I yield the trails that are multi-use to
other users all the time EVERY time.  


Dan

mtnbiker
From: rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Glacier Glasses
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:24:07 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC


 Anybody out there know where I can get Ray Ban Glacier Glasses
for cheaper than the normal retail price of $55.00!  I'm
just a little tired of paying the *BIG BUCKS* for them.

(On a personal note: I have glaucoma and one of the side effects
is acute sensitivity to light.  The Ray Ban model of glacier
glasses seem to be the best for me.  They work well when I
winter camp also, not to mention morning rush hour)

TANKS
mOOse
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Re: light weight coffee makers - (was: totally obnoxious camper w/o my espresso)
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:47:00 GMT


Of course, all this interesting discussion aside, there is only one
TRUE and APPROVED (tm) way to make coffee in the backwoods. All
you need is a kettle (like the Trangia one), which you need for
boiling water anyway.

Get some coarsely ground coffee (some good stuff, like colombian
or Kenya AA, not robusta crap like Maxwell House).  I mean really
coarsely ground.  In Sweden the right stuff is called "Kok Kaffee"
(for boiling).    Through the grounds in the kettle with 
water, and bring to a boil (Don't boil for long).  Take it off,
and let it stop boiling.  Throw in a small splash of cold water
to settle the grounds and pour off carefully into your cup.

It makes a special taste, and is the way generations of cowpeople,
and even more generations of Same, Finns and Swedes have
been making their coffee out back of beyond.  You can
make this really hot, even in the middle of winter (which
is not the case for filter coffee).  It produces no
waste but the grounds (which you can mix in with
your scrambled eggs and eat, if you are desperate).

Variant: Cowboy coffee.  Just keep boiling.  Throw in a hoss shoe.
When the hoss shoe floats, it's done.  Serve with lots of
sugar and red likker.

(Another good way to make coffee is to go the other route
and get pulverized Turkish grind, and boil it with
sugar.  That's how it's done by the desert nomads.  Pulverized
coffee doesn't stay fresh long, though, and it's hard to
drink enough to warm you up at breakfast time)


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kamk@sgi.com (Kameran Kashani)
Subject: Backcountry Coffee
Bcc: postmaster@facepie.santa-cruz.ca.us
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:37:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.164700.29244@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
+ 
+ ...
+ ...  Through the grounds in the kettle with 
+ water, and bring to a boil (Don't boil for long).  Take it off,
+ and let it stop boiling.  Throw in a small splash of cold water
+ to settle the grounds and pour off carefully into your cup.
+ 

Yup. Works great. I start with the grounds in cold
water, just bring to a boil ever-so-briefly, let sit
for a minute or two, then carefully pour the coffee
into a cup. Your mileage may vary.

One idea (that I have never tried) is coffee bags.  I
may finally do this on an upcoming trip.  Create a
small bag using tea-bag paper, add medium to
fine-ground coffee, staple closed with a string
attached, use like a tea bag. Pack out the used bags.

Or, use cloth bags. I'll bet you could put the cloth
bag with ground coffee into a pan of cold water, bring
to a boil, let sit a while, then wring out the bag
using a spoon to avoid burning your fingers. That would
really reduce the problem with coffee grounds. This is
the same technique as for making soups and stews with
seasoning bags.

It seems like I heard of a company making coffee bags,
but I don't remember for certain. Of course, grinding
coffee on a trip shorter than a few weeks strikes me as
kind of pointless. Packed in a Ziploc bag or airtight
Nalgene bottle, ground coffee won't lose enough flavor
over a short trip to make whole beans worth the
effort.

But, if you are into it ... look for a hand-cranked
Turkish coffee grinder. I saw Jeff Smith (the Frugal
Gourmet) grind pepper with one. Conversely, you could
probably use a pepper mill to make some really fine
grounds.  I have a mill that grinds pepper very
coarsely, and if the mill were smaller it would work 
as a backpacking grinder.

kamk

--
Silicon Graphics, Inc.					kamk@wpd.sgi.com

Most often heard noise on my last camping trip: "Yaaahoooo!"
Second most often heard noise: "I'm going to have to kill them now."
From: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu (Siddarth Subramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: light weight coffee makers - (was: totally obnoxious camper w/o my espresso)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 09:52:49 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug17.041834.966@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.194320.11003@spdc.ti.com> burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug14.022423.16281@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>>                             Filtered coffee, if anything,
>>>would increase your cancer risk, because of dioxin residues
>>>in the bleached filters.  I have never seen unbleached
>>>filters for sale in this country.

>>   Probably so. BTW, I have seen and used two different brands of non-bleached
>>coffee filters. Can't think of their names, though.

>I don't know about the U.S.A. but Melita market unbleached coffee filters
>just about everywhere else in the world. 
>They also sell filter cones with a little handle.  Lightweight and efficient.
>just pour stright into your mug (or throat for instant effect).


Both of these are available here - just go to a specialty coffee
store, or if you live in a town that's too small for one, there are (I
believe) lots of mail order coffee stores. I used one of these
individual filter cones (with unbleached filters and coffee that I
ground up the day before we left) on a recent backpacking trip - as
Derek says, they're lightweight and efficient and the coffee was
acceptable.


-- 

Siddarth Subramanian          INTERNET: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu
Austin, Texas                 UUCP:     uunet!cs.utexas.edu!siddarth
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry