From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: More questions for Suzanne or other pro-life parent
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:00:11 GMT

From article <+h6m50a.gordons@netcom.com>, by gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga):
> 
> <1992Aug12.232518.26589@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>>gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga):
> ....

[discussing a hypothetical situation that an minor daughter of Suzanne's 
 had an abortion]


>>> Do you try to see her side of it?  Do you ask her to explain?
>>
>>Yet BET I do!
> 
> Confusion: You see her side of it?  OR  Do you ask her to explain?  

I "try to see her side of it" by "asking her to explain".  How many
"yesses" do you want?


> Your
> single answer wasn't clear as to which question you were answering.
> I'd be interested in hearing how you could see her side of it.

By asking her her reasons.  Just about every truly pro-life mother
*I* know has taken her teenage daughter asside at some time and said,
"I don't expect you'll ever get pregnant, but if it were ever to 
happen, you know that I would help you raise the baby until you were 
established enough to take care of him/her yourself."   And you know
what?  Daughters from trusting loving homes like that RARELY ever do
get pregnant!



>>> If you can manage it, stay in the
>>> hypothetical, but try to personalize it in a 'real world' sense.
>>
>>The real world is what you make it, Gordon.
> 
> Oh, my world is as real as they come.  Yours appears to be fairly
> fantastical.

No Gordon.   Your world of doom, gloom, and perpetual pessimism is
NOT real at all.   The world IS what you make it.   You make yours
a cesspool by expecting your kids to sleep around exposing themselves
to all sorts of horrible diseases, not to mention parenthood before
their time.  I make ours (my daughter's and mine) a world of decency
and love, where she knows from early on how to reciprocate.  She
will want for her children nothing less than what she has grown up
with herself.   And you know what Gordon?  Kids have a way of living
up to EXACTLY what you EXPECT of them.   You expect your kids to
be animals of the street, who will be unable to control themselves
in getting pregnant, and then will become physically violent when
you try to help them.  And your kids would grow up exactly like that,
Gordon.   My kids will grow up decent, loving, and in full control
of their futures.   Because those are the worlds we're creating
for them as they are growing up.

Yes Gordon, I know you've had a vasectomy.  You've posted it to
the world before.  And for the sake of the kids you didn't have,
I'm glad.


>>The real world is that parents CAN and DO have a HUGE influence on
>>their children's view of the world.
> 
> Sure do, but they have little control.

That's why you teach them young how to control themselves.

 
> All in all, you answered pretty much the way I thought you might: You
> denied that any of these things was a remote possibility for your
> daughter.  

I denied that I can have no influence whatsoever on my daughter.
The fact is that you have complete influence AND control while your
children are still young, and as she is still very young, it is not
too late for my kid, so she will be taught how to control herself.

You apparently would be too lazy to teach your kids the self-control
they'd need in this world, and so you throw up your hands and say
"it cain't be done".  Of course it can be done.  You just can't be
bothered, Gordon.


> You'd claim she murdered her child, but wouldn't report her for
> murder.  You'd (apparently) physically drag her to counseling whether
> she needed it or not, whether she wanted it or not.

Correction:  YOUR kid would need to be dragged.   My kid is will not be
the street animal your kid would be, because I'm seeing to it that she's
not.  She is, and always will be, a human being.


> I wonder if you'd
> mind answering all these questions again, but this time assume that
> abortion has been made completely illegal, with federal punishment for
> procuring and abetting abortion.  I'm just curious of your treatment of
> your daughter would change if had committed murder in the *legal* sense.

Certainly not, because I've said for years that I advocate that the law
hunt down _abortionists_ themselves, since an abortionist will be guilty
of far many more abortions than one scared teenage girl.   I have never
advocated treating women like criminals.


> Gordon

Suzanne.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion