From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: GP wants you, was Re: government organic food purchas
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:14:07 GMT

In article <-1363838459snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov17.143942.10426@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV writes:
>
> > >As I've said, we have to come to grips with the fact that current 
> > >production methods must continue until we find better ways.
> >  
> > I don't think anyone here's said otherwise.
>
>Dave, the attacks made here have been specifically by those promoting
>organic growing against those they perceive to be fighting to retain
>the capitalist monoculture designed by evil chemical corporations
>and bankers to exploit farmers and pollute the world to their own
>neferious ends. There is no such conspiracy, and perhaps such wholly
>paranoid promoters of singular alternatives might just relax a little
>so we can all begin working together to sort out some of the problems
>involved with feeding people.
>
>I too am here for the duration. If I have a comment to make, I will
>make it without anticipating that some hysteric will want to be
>attacking me and bogging the discussion down in political hype and
>semantics.
>
> > >I admit, organic is one of those ways, but it doesn't even come close to
> > >meeting the requirement of a hungry world.
> >  
> > Why not?
>
>The question is not concerned with *why*, but *how*. Perhaps you can
>enlighten us a little on what you have to say on the matter instead of
>carrying on with this crap.
>
> > >For your information, organic production
> > >methods are just ONE of a host of disciplines that are and have been worked
> > >on for at least ten years. Integrated Crop Management techniques pull together
> > >the sciences of biology, mathematics and agriculture. Plant and animal
> > >breeding produces species which are resistant to pests and diseases in a non
> > >polluting way...
> >  
> > I have concerns about genetic engineering, reliance upon hybrids, and the use
> > of monocultures, but that's a can of worms of another color.
>
>Is it indeed? Perhaps here again you can edify us with some reliable
>information we can independently and impartially assess for ourselves.
>
> > >all of these things, when used, reduce our dependency on chemicals. How come
> > >none of you out there have mentioned them?
> >  
> > Perhaps because they're unproven, unsustainable, or contrary to our beliefs.
>
>Well yes; "contrary to your beliefs" sounds much closer to what you are
>grinding your molars over than any sort of reality. What is proven is
>what produces crops, not words on computer screens, however it might be
>maintained for the moment while more sustainable strategies are being
>implemented.
>
>The problem is in supplying sufficient energy and nutrients to those
>crops that they will produce food in sufficient abundance to feed the
>massive plague of *homo sapiens sapiens* (some irony!) now on the face
>of the earth, yes?
>
> > >Perhaps it's because you didn't know about them...
> >  
> > Maybe, maybe not.
>
>Do you, or do you not? Please do offer whatever material you do have
>to the forum, so we can assess it for ourselves. Or are you in fact
>merely another programmer with access to a specialist forum solely
>through your assignment to maintaining computer workstations linked to
>the Internet, with nothing much worth our wasting time and energy over
>anyway?
>
>For that matter, here on this forum also all posters might reasonably
>be expected to identify themselves with an appropriate .sig, and to
>declare their interest in the various threads being pursued.
>
> > >and that, Mr. London, could be construed as reason 
> > >enough to pass your flame right back at you.... you aren't informed enough
> > >to be able to contribute any insight besides `I love organic' 
> >  
> > How did you reach that conclusion?  Are you *that* sure there's no other reason
> > they haven't been mentioned?
>
>Please do offer some other reason. Please respect our intelligence and
>show us what you have to offer which might be implemented in practice.
>
>--
>Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
>Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
>PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
>   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *