HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu)
Subject: Re: gypsies
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:14:50 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

To: zoelen@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl
Subject: Re: gypsies
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa
Cc: 
Bcc: 

In article <1992Sep4.152223.1@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl> you write:
>hi all..
>i was in romania last month and i wondered what the position
>of the gypsies over there is... my experiences with them were very 
>mixed, from very friendly to hostile (and efforts to take my money)..
>On tv i saw that they were the first victims of the riots in rostock
>in germany as well... so what are they: are they a real part of the
>romanian society ... or is it thru what some ppl told me..that they
>are a world apart and just live from what they can get, but are no part of
>the economy? (i think they mean to say: they just steal ... )
>so ... how do they get an income?  are they just a burden for the 
>country? i didn't understand relations between romanians and
>gypsies very well i think.
>and: are they a special race as well.. i also saw some with blond hair,
>or are they a different group??
>and one other question: why is there just information on football
>in this newsgroup???? there is a lot to be said about romania 
>
>regards, ad van zoelen

Gypsies are a part of romanian society as much as of other countries'
societies. It is true that originary they were nomad. Their traditions
made them difficult to "integrate". The problem is serious and I remember
an article in "Spiegel" a couple of years ago, about gypsies living
in Germany for many generations. The title was: "Under Hitler, at least,
we were Arians"... Meaning, of course: It had become worse and worse for
them...
	Alin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: raicu@netcom.com (Eugen Raicu)
Subject: Romanian word processors
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 19:25:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Are there any word processors with fonts or character sets compatible
with correct Romanian spelling? If I find any info and there is enough
interest, I will post a summary.

Thank you.
-- 
Eugen Raicu
raicu@netcom.com
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Gypsies and other "natiuni conlocuitoare"
Date: 7 Sep 1992 23:13:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


George, I do not really intend to go on polemicizing with you;
tell me one thing though: did you run out and tried to fly your 
bycicle after you saw "E.T."?

Cheers!


-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Moldova and another Russian Nationalistic Ignorant
Date: 6 Sep 1992 08:52:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


Mihai draga, nu te lua in gura cu Vizhniuk asta (sau cum dracului il
cheama), caci, ca de obicei, rage ca un bou cu prostia-i obisnuita
fara sa aiba vreun habar...Daca cumva te indoiesti de nemaipomenita 
timpenie a individului nu ai decit sa ii citesti "clasicele" in 
"talk.politics.soviet" unde este unanim recunoscut drept mazeta
grupului...


-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Gipsies / Jews and other "natiuni conlocuitoare"
Date: 4 Sep 1992 23:58:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <lafb94INN8rr@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> hendrix@haber.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>Hey Guys
>There are some REAL BIGOTS HERE WHO talk about Gypsies in a VERY disturbing way.
>it is INSIDIOUS to characterize the whole group as being ... bad.

Truth of the matter is that Gypsies have a much higher propensity, as a group
to commit crimes. Of course, this is just the result of hundred of years of
economic and social discrimination. If you really want to address this pro-  
blem though, you have to start by verbalizing it: that is what I though Sascha
was trying to do..

>In my opinion Gipsy are a VERY important part of the Roumanian Society
>some of them may not be pleasant to you,so nobody asks you to associate with them.

No, they are not an important part of Romanian society; their apport to the
real yearly GNP is probably 5-7%, at best..and anywhere else they are defini-
tely underrepresented...

> Without them there would be no wood to burn in winter and a loath of other
>goods wold not reach the market.

Again, a very serious overestimation of the role of Gypsies as market inter-
mediaries in contemporary Romania; they do not deal in sugar, wheat, oil or
computer programming services; but rather in chewing-gum, jeans, cheap ste-
reos and video cassettes..

> My Dear Sasha THIS is what CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT "make money" if you did not have
>family abroad ??? and they had that is their advantage and there is nothing wrong with
>them being "BISNITARI" what is WRONG with rounamia is that the term "BISNITAR" is a negative term
>"BISNITAR" ==> CAPITALIST and that is Bater than COMULIST <== "CUR LINGAU"

I was sort of hoping s.c.r. will eventually become void of linguistic vio-
lences but I guess George Haber believes in plasticity foremost...In addition
he seems to unconditionally equate small, frantic entrepreneurship with 
capitalism  and long run economic success, which is nothing but a vulgarization
of economic theory, long time ago exposed and abandonned by the academic
community. Besides citizens  with relatives abroad and commerce in bras and nailpolishes an economy also needs at least two other ingredients: taxes and 
standards. Trade conducted at the street corner in substandard products does
not fit these basic requirements; taxes are not levied, roads are not built.
Substandard products reach the market, consumers suffer; there have been so
many cases in Romania recently of people getting sick and even dieing because
of "imports" that have never been properly checked....If Gypsies, for a rea-
son or another tend to engage in such activities, the problem have to ad-
dressed in a balanced way, i.e by still allowing them to use their entrepre-
neurial spirit, under some sort of minimum set of standards..
-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: The full reposting of a Russian Mutl...
Date: 8 Sep 1992 09:03:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

How is this dude?

Is him by any chance one of the few Chernobyl survivers that know want
to make sure that the whole world goes to shit since what happened to him?

Without joking, I cannot get over the things he says. I mean there are
posts that one can argue with, and create some kind of clarification
after some arguments, but such IDIOTIC posts as Vizchiuk's (what ever?) are
impossible to answer since there is no point to start.  I guess I should go
get some pot, or even better -- crack --, in order to be able to reply on
a similar frequency with his.

Sasha Bucur
Xref: sparky soc.culture.romanian:883 soc.culture.cis:52 alt.culture.us.asian-indian:637 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:249 soc.culture.indian:30371
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Gipsies / Jews and other "natiuni conlocuitoare"
Date: 6 Sep 1992 08:47:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <keeMCgC00WB61QKHtE@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>I say:
>Gypsies have a strong control over the consumer goods black market, in
>general (food is an important part of their list).  You are an economist
>and I am surprised that you do not recognize that THEY ARE INDEED THE
>FOREMOST CAPITALISTS OF ROMANIA.  Despite most of them's lacking capital,
>they RUSHED into filling thothey RUSHED into fillingost neglected by the
>uncapable leadership.

So, they are FOREMOST CAPITALISTS but at the same time they lack capital?
Maybe at one point we should define a CAPITALIST: a person that lives off
accumualated and current economic rents accrued on something other than
labor...Which is what Gypsies are not, since, as you say they so not have
capital, or real assets. If you said: they are the FOREMOST ENTREPRENEURS
you'd be closer to the objective and definitional reality, although not
by much. Unfortunately, the real entrepreneurs (those making tons of money)
are former nomenklatura stars or guardians who managed to privatize through
confiscation some traditional export Romanian branch, such as furniture,
textiles, etc.
Also, the share of the consummer goods black market in current Romanian
GNP is arguably under 8% and defintely under 10%. Given these figures, I
say again, Gypsies' role is minimal, if one excludes their beatification
as tax-evading  harbingers of free trade in multicolored pens and cotton
pads.. 

Cheers!
 


-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: adi@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Adina Tumageanian)
Subject: The role of women in post-revolution Romania
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:53:57 GMT


-- 
A.T.
The Ohio State University 
Electrical Engineering Dept.
Room 204 Dreese Labs
2015 Neil Avenue
Columbus, OH 43210


Hello,

My friend is doing a study on the role and situation of women in Romania after
the revolution and would appreciate any sources of information on this topic. 
Thank you 

A.T.
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: illiescu's letter
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:32:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


Couple of points:

	1) technically, Iliescu is still the same old apparatchnik,
eager to use time tested, Len(Stal)in inspired propaganda methods, such
as Munchausenesque letters to the voting public.
This is of course in stark contradiction with the liberal aroma he choose
to oint himself with, but by now few of us still have doubts about him, 
at least here in the States..

	2) nationalism will always be a powerful electoral weapon and both
Tokes and Iliescu are making ample usage of it; mind that Tokes entered a
hunger strike NOW, before the September elections on grounds of being dis-
satisfied with events that happened TWO YEARS ago. His sincerity is at best
timely.
	3) while Tokes' methods may be questionable (but whose methods are
not , in Romania) he addresses a valid point: the rights of the Hungarians
in Romania where they are roughly 9% of the total population have to be
adequately quantified, in a contemporary approach to the problem of natio-
nalities..
	4) and yes, Tokes was assisted by the CIA in his efforts and maybe
gave them some information; but so did Manolescu; do not forget they were
both in fact fighting the Ceausescu regime....

-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15765 soc.culture.polish:2557
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: A Polish flame backfires Re: Nazi camps
Summary: poetic justice or a stereotype?
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:24:16 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

WARNING: In the following post, I respond to a flame with a flame.  For
those who don't like flame fests, please skip this article.

In article <matthew.716173702@mugga> matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek
Blasikiewicz) writes:

>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>>>I do not know if the Nazis only had one target (implied by S.Saal's
>>>>"the Jews were the Nazis' target"). What about the Gypsies? Were
>>>>they not a target, or are Gypsies Jews?

>>I imply no such thing.

>Look-up "the" in a dictionary (pay special attention to the distinction
>between the and a/an), and you will find that you did imply this:  Jews
>= THE Nazis' target = THE target of the Nazis != A target of the Nazis.

Sigh. Maybe you enjoy perpetuating stereotypes, or something.  If you
don't want to make (at least) yourself look foolish, I strongly
recommend _you_ look things up before challenging others.

Source: The American Heritage Dictionary. (reprinted without permission)
The one on my desk is copyright 1985.

the: (using definition 1b - didn't even have to look too far down the
list).  "Used before a noun, and generally stressed, emphasizing one of a
group or type as the most outstanding or prominent"

While you are certainly welcome to assume I used any definition/use of any
word, it probably serves you better if you keep these assumptions to
yourself.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: hsiegel@cvbnet.prime.com (mailhost)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Prophets, Ethics, Torah
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:49:17 GMT

From article <1992Sep11.184654.5738@lsil.com>, by jeffs@lsil.com (Jeff Spiegel 4291):
...
> For example, one is permitted to violate the Shabbat in order to
> save a life.  I recall a story of a Hasidic Master arriving late for
> a Yom Kippur service in order to talk and try to help some drunkards
> along the way.

It may be a different story, but the version I recall is one in which
he hears a baby crying (its parents had gone off to shul, leaving it
asleep, and then it woke up), his hearing it, and calming the baby
back to sleep before going on to shul himself.

>		  Another story deals with a rabbi helping a widow
> chop some wood on his way to Torah study or evening services and
> sometimes arriving late.
> 
> I feel we must always be aware of those in need even when other
> mitzvot are demanding attention.

Definitely.  I recall another story, from the Gemara (I think; anyone
know a reference?) in which a beggar asked charity of a merchant, who
said "sure, as soon as I've unloaded my donkey".  Before the donkey
could be unloaded, the beggar died.  I'm sure I needn't say that the
Gemara uses this as an illustration of how one must pay attention to
the circumstances in which help is needed.

>				    In these circumstances, the former
> may be more [dear] in G-d's eyes.

All this having been said, we should also say that both of the stories
Mr Spiegel quotes are _well_ within the bounds of the traditional
halacha dealing with ritual obligations in conflict with humanitarian
obligations.  [As if there were a real distinction: in halacha, as I
understand it, humanitarian obligations _are_ ritual obligations!]

Zvi (Howard) Siegel             hsiegel@clavier.prime.com
Prime/Computervision            hsiegel@primerd.prime.com
Bedford, Mass.                  hsiegel%clavier.prime.com@RELAY.CS.NET
(617) 275-1800 x4064            cvbnet!hsiegel@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:21:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.032948.830@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> ayf@pruxp.att.com (Avi Feldblum) writes:
>In article <7440001@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> rogerp@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Roger Pollard) writes:
>>There is an interesting opinion on this issue from (if I remember correctly)
>>Rabbi Moshe Feinstein z"l  who said that those whose parents are alive should
>>leave during Yizkor and that it was incorrect to remain (whether standing,
>If anyone has a reference to this T'shuva of R' Moshe I would be
>interested. I remember discussing this issue with my grandfather (who
>was a posek in his own right) and he told me that this is a relatively
>recent custom, and that in Europe everyone stayed in during Yizkor.
  We didn't have photocopied sources at last night's class, so I will
  necessarily be sketchy on the details, but perhaps others can help 
  out. (Aside to N.W. it's not my fault scj parallels the shiur!!)

  Together with the four New Years in the Jewish calendar, there are
  four judgement days. Yom kippur is associated with Rosh Hashana,
  and the other three roshei shana have their yimei din on those
  days we say yizkor. The minor yimei din are for the amount of
  rain, wheat, and (forget, fruit?) there will be in total during
  the year. Yom kippur decides how it will be distributed among the
  people.

  As a reflection of this yom din aspect of the chag, we are supposed
  to do tshuva (repentance.) To aid us in doing the tshuva, there is
  a yizkor service--to remind us about our mortality and thereby
  increase our piety (kavana.) According to this, it is entirely
  appropriate for everyone to stay for yizkor--the tshuva is a
  communal responsibility.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:32:09 GMT

kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn) writes:

>In article <Aef9xnW00WB6IqTUUK@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>>I was surprised to see that my fellow Jews following this thread,
>>after being told to go to the history books, did not do so.  The
>>Polish posters are perfectly right in stating that the Polish
>>government (up to the Saxon accession to the throne, in 1697),
>>has practically had *NO ANTISEMITIC RECORD*.  That at a time when
>>both in Western Europe and in Russia, official antisemitism was
>>almost constantly the case.

>Didn't the notorious Chelmecki massacre occur in Poland in 1648?  This was
>perhaps the bloodiest attack on Jews in the 1800 years between
>the Bar-Kochba rebellion and the Nazis.  Tens of thousands were killed.

>J. Kahn

This is a perfect example of an ignorant who should keep his foot in his
mouth.
Anyway, for J. Kahn:

CHMIELNICKI was the name, Ukrainians were his followers; his revolt
(rebellion, revolution, uprising - choose your favourite) was directed
against Poland. His followers massacred all the Poles and Jews they got
their hands on. The Jews (and Poles) that survived this period did so,
because they either fled or were saved by the Polish army, which eventually
succeeded in subduing the revolt.
It should be pointed out that this revolt ruined and weakened Poland so
much that it marks the starting point of the decline of the country, both
political and economic. This event marks the beginning of the end of
the period of prosperity for Polish Jews in particular (in an
agricultural economy, a decline hits cities most - and that is where
the Jews lived).

W. Dobosiewicz

P.S.  This is an extremely simplified picture prepared for J. Kahn. Better
informed readers are not welcome flaming me for not understanding that the
Ukrainians had their reasons and that Polish policy vs. Kossacks (Kozaks)
was partially to blame.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: On the SUPERIOR Role of Women
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:43:35 GMT

In article <9209091607.AA24235@robocop.NYU.EDU> baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker) writes:
>Re Hayim and rejection of 1% of tradition == rejecting all of tradition:
>	...
>   Jonathan J. Baker

Note you added 1 word that was not in my statement. I said
Rejecting 1% of tradition == rejection of tradition

You, however, added the word "all". Perhaps, now we can understand
why the Torah says "Lo Tosif" - you should not add to the Mitzvot.

Unfortunately, the rest of your post (which I did not bother to quote)
reflects the same carelessness with my words.

Hayim Hendeles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:13:23 GMT

In article <2019@ceylon.gte.com> sgutfreund@gte.com writes:

>Also, men's mikva fees are seperate. $175 for daily mikva
>use and $100 for shabbos & Yom Tov and $5 for single use.
>[It happens to be a very nice recently renovated mikva].

For that kinda change it had better be Olympic-sized!

\8-)

Aryk
From: ce157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric W. Mack)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish Genealogy
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:28:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.18d4j0INNj0f
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Toda raba to all who responded to my query about the existence of
or setting up a group re:Jewish genealogy.  I have since learned
of a soc.roots group for general-interest genealogy questions.
I have also received several copies of instructions - written in
computerese - as to how to set up a new group.  I will leave it
to minds brighter than mine and w/more free time than I have to
attempt to set up a Jewish genealogy group on usente.

G'mar hatima tova l'chol echad.

Eric Mack
-- 
Eric Mack or Cheryl Birkner Mack
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: amir@leopard.gatech.edu (amir)
Subject: Re: Bal (not Ba'al) Tashchit
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:47:24 GMT

Please. There are Ba'al Tsephon and Ba'al Zevuv, but they are no
relation to BAL TASHCHIT, which means DON'T DESTROY.

-- Ami


					
					-Amihood Amir (amir@cc.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Kohanim & Converts
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:51:52 GMT

In article <92251.133118P85014@BARILVM.BITNET> Anthony Waller <P85014@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.025854.20717@cs.tulane.edu>, js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan
>Silbermann) says:
>>
>>What are the various Halachic opinions on these questions?
>>2) Does it make a difference if the child was however _conceived_
>>   before the mother's conversion (though born afterwards)?
>2) Don't know for sure.  I would guess that the child is still considered
>   Jewish even if mother had not converted at time of conception.
  This one is explicitly considered in the G'mara, and the child is
  Jewish. Unfortunately, I don't remember the location. It came up in
  a shiur on surrogate motherhood.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Document that! (was Re: Violent antisemitism?)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:00:33 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <7208@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> roman@sparc17.hri.com (Roman
>Budzianowski) writes:

>>What is your estimate - how many Poles helped the Germans murder Jews ?
>>Give a number between 0 and the number of all ethnic Poles minus 3.5milion dead.

>Ah, yes, the last refuge of the defensive: "give me numbers."

>Why do you assume that these 3.5 million Poles (which I assume
>do not include Jews) were either not antisemitic or had their
>antisemitism nullified by being murdered by the Nazis?
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

How do you, Sam, suppose all these 3.5 million dead Poles could help
the Germans murder Jews? Do you believe in Zombies?


MB