HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ck@cs.tulane.edu (Cris Koutsougeras)
Subject: Re: An article about Macedonia in TIME (october 12, 1992)
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-6247]: isis
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:01:53 GMT

In article <kutluk.718734318@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:

>between Italy and Switzerland. It is so bad that the Greek intellectuals
>along with the Serbian bretren still live in the 19th century, and it
>is the Bosnians, Macedonians, Croats and Kosovans who are paying the
>price. 
>
>Kutluk


Maybe it is the Turkish underground dealing that hurts the Macedonians
since they only have the Turkish official support AND offer for
support including military training and aid.  Greece has no reason to
submitt to totaly unreasonable demands on the part of the Skopijans,
it is them who hurt because they insist in unreasonable demands.
It is unheard of to blame Greece for not accepting to part with its
own herritage as being the cause for the Skopijan's uneasiness.
The Skopijan demands are the cause for the friction, Greece's attitude
is the REACTION to those demands.  Greece did not start this, Skopije
did. 

This is in line with the Turkish propaganda that Greece is bad and
mean for vetoing the Turkish connection to EC.  Greece has asked that
Turkey declares respect for the borders as they stand today and the
settlement of the Cyprus issue to withdraw all of its vetoes.  Turkey
does not want any of that and goes around saying that Greece is bad
and mean and doesn't let Turkey in EC.  Turkish journalists have
specifically been instructed by their goverment (Ozal) in the past to
not refer to the Greek islands as "Greek islands" but instead as
"Aegean islands" reflecting the Turkish goverment's position that the
sovereignity of the Aegeon and the islands is disputable. As a matter
of fact right now there is a diplomatic battle going on in DASE
regarding the article 10 of DASE's constitution which Turkey does not
want it to apply to her.  Why? Because with that article Greece can
finally force Turkey to go to the International Court in Hage and to
accept its verdict as final.  This has been Greece's position in years
and Turkey refuses because by the standing regulations she has no
chance passing its claims.  This should give an idea of how
unreasonable Turkey is in its claims.  Yet Turkey says that Greece is
bad and mean and does not give Turkey a brake in EC.  And this is the
same kind of logic which Turkey's pet - Skopije - follows in its own
propaganda.  So statements like the above coming from Turkish
supporters are totaly contemptible.

-ck
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek

In soc.culture.greek, scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:

> 
> Well, well, well.
> 
> So when you all don't like an article in Time you want to boycott it?
> 
> Why do I feel that if an article would ever appear criticizing Turkey, you
> would accept it as the gospel truth?   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????
> 
> Face the facts people:  If they want to be called Macedonia, you can't
> stop them.   How about if they call themselves NEW Macedonia?  Would
> that make you feel better?
> 
Everyone who remotely understands history and politics knows that there
is more than a fight for a "name" here.  
Greece fights to preserve its own history, while Slave-Makedonians
try to forge their own identity.

Fifty years from now who knows what claims may have on its neighbors
and on history a country called "Makedonia"?
Something that looks silly now may be a step-stone for future trouble
in the future.

K. Konstantinides
-------------------------------
The "Makedonian chalvas" is GREEK and is made in Thessaloniki!!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Kinites kai akinites giortes
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:46:45 GMT

serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:

>pnevmati@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos) writes:

>>Prin ena mina peripou o Constantinos Caroutas esteile enan algorithmo pou
>>briskei tin imerominia tou pasxa. Mipws kanenas exei mia lista me tis
>>imerominies gia tis kyriwteres kinites kai akinites giortes? An den kanw
>>lathos oles oi kinites exoun statheri apostasi apo to Pasxa?

>Let me guess, using the very limited Greek I heard while growing up
>in Cyprus, hopefully I won't embarass myself...


>The question is regarding an algorithm to calculate the date of Easter
>at any given year...

>What is the difference between Pasxa (Easter) and giortes (this
>sounds like 'yortu' which in Turkish is used to denote Christian
>Orthodox rites, including Easter, and may be actually based on the word
>giortes).

You certainly did not embarass your self.  Your understanding of Greek,
eventhough written in latin characters, is very good. 
I am glad to realize that there are young Turkish Cypriots who can 
understand greek at this level.

Now coming to your question.
'Yiorti' in greek does not refer only to religion, it means celebration, or
anniversary.  The verb 'yiortazw' means to celebrate. A person's 'yiorti'
in Cyprus, refers to one's nameday, which is the date of the year that the
Saint afterwhom he/she is named is celebrated.
For example the nameday of Andreas in on November 30, when the memory of 
Apostle Andreas is celebrated by the Orthodox Church.

Pasxa is the most important 'yiorti' for the Orthodox, but is 
certainly not the only one.  The terms 'kinites' refers to yiortes
which are not celebrated on a fixed data. Pasxa is one of them, is
always celebrated on a Sunday, but it may be placed anywhere from
March to as late as May.  There is certain way for finding the exact date
, that's way people are talking about a computer program.  
Akinites yiortes are the ones which are celebrated on a fixed date,
for example:
Xristougenna (Christmass) 25 December
Evangelismos ths Theotokou 25 (can't translate) 25 March
Koimisis tns Theotokou (Death of Mary) 15 August.
Every Saint (Ayios/Ayia) are commemorated at a certain
date of the year.

I am sure other people will have to say more about this.

Please, tell us more about your self.  I'll be glad to 
get to know you and other Turkish Cypriots better.

Michalis Syrimis
A Cypriot from Neapolis
in Occupied Nicosia.

>>Dionisis

>Serdar

>-- 
>Inhabited by absurd fears,  they only discuss  the puerilities with which 
>every fool is familiar, and dare not, by turning a bold hand to the human 
>heart, offer its gigantic idiosyncrasies to our views.     Sade, 'Justine'
>Serdar Boztas \\ serdar@fawlty1.eng.monash.edu.au \\ +(61)3-565-5722 
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: nkoudour@lonestar.utsa.edu (Nathan D. Koudouris)
Subject: re: Greece Information from Michalis
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:57:35 GMT


Michalis

You sent E-mail to me late last week on my request for information on Greece.
Would you please mail back to me and give me your E-mail address?

I have some other questions for you.

                                                   Thanks alot.

                                                   Demosthenes
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9692 soc.culture.turkish:10617
From: add@cec1.wustl.edu (Andrew D. Dimaroganas)
Subject: Opening for an Instructor of Modern Greek
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:12:01 GMT


      Instructor of Modern Greek is wanted to teach University level,
beginning and intermediate, modern Greek at Washington University or
University of Missouri-St. Louis. Minimum qualifications are a Ph.D.
or advanced graduate standing in a related topic, such as Classics,
Byzantine or Modern Greek. The courses are sponsored by the Hellenic
Society of Greater St. Louis, where inquiries should be addressed:

 Professor A. Dimarogonas, ADD@cec1.wustl.edu 

Transportation expenses could be paid if commuting will be necessary.
From: cza@troy.uucp (C. Akgun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MIRacles No. 13
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:31:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: walter.1992Oct8.183140.6378
Organization: BCR, NJ-USA

In article <BvsopG.7G2@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>From article <Bvrp4v.7pF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by pt8684@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis):
>> 
>>   I have something to tell you Mr. Fear. And I will tell it as much politely
>> as I can: Fuck you !!
>
>Now wasn't this the chap who said the Greeks were a peaceful people?
[....}
>Andy

Now cats are out of the bag.  If words fail or frustrate some
pour soul, the vulgar behavior takes over in his small world.  
He may say Greeks were a peaceful people.  Who says that would 
imply to include himself, a fine example of a hypocrite.  

I would still insist that mirrors are the only cure for those 
individuals to get a hold of themselves.  However, one has to quit 
answering at some point to dignify further this pour soul's gems. 

C. Akgun
From: sadi@physics3 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Greek Logic Re: Turkish Logic
Date: 9 Oct 1992 05:23:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics3.berkeley.edu

In article <Oct07.164449.33648@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>>
>> Sorry. For 18%, it meant exchange of colonizers for the worse.
>
>Colonizers? Get real.

 Perhaps it is time to look at the events from the Turkish point of
view. What do you think?

>>Now, tell me what is wrong with a free and independent Cyprus?
>
>Nothing wrong. But the Turkish side wants partition (taksim).

 You know very well that partition demands came as a response to
the uncomprimising attidude of the Greek leadership about Enosis.
Before the ink of the constitution dry, the ethnarch Makarios
has shown that he had every intention to violate it. Admit it,
Constantine, there was something wrong with the independence
in the eyes of some Enosis supporters, which eventually led the
island into disaster.

>>Why was this "union" so important that, some people contributed
>>to its destruction. If there weren't this uncompromising attitude
>>of some Enosis supporters, the Republic of Cyprus could have worked.
>
>Enosis was not the problem. Taksim was. The Turkish Cypriot leadership
>tried hard to pick a fight with the Greek Cypriots and justify a Turkish
>intervention. This is something said by the first Turkish ambassador to
>Cyprus. I can provide details if you missed my early September posting
>on this.

 Please do. Maybe we can compare it with the Akritas plan. Ah. Make
sure your details are not from misinformation center in South Nicosia.

>Constantinos A. Caroutas
>
>"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."

 Sadi Turgut

-- 
  The Greeks have survived in spite of all the world could
do against them, and all they could do against themselves.
              --Sir Winston Churchill
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Albanians and Pseudo-Macedonia
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:34:03 GMT

dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:

>In article <BvzBAM.6Cv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
> >  I have said several times, that the name "Republic of Slavic Macedonia"
> >  is fine with me.
>What do you think the non-slavs would say to that (you mentioned 40%
>Albanians).

 So, you are worried about what the non-slavs are going to say, but on
 the other hand you think that Greeks should close their mouth and
 accept the use of their name Macedonia from some non-Greeks.

 Thank you very much for your understanding.

>-- 
>dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland

 Bye,

 Panos Tamamidis
From: sstavr@oregon.uoregon.edu (Stasinos Stavrianeas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Albanians and Pseudo-Macedonia
Date: 12 Oct 92 03:07:00 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	I am new to the list. Despite that I have read almost every single 
article in it. Well, I have to note that there seems to be a lot of discussion 
about what had happened in the past. No one though talked about who was 
benefited from similar situations. This is exactly what History is all about. 
We should learn from our mistakes (especially we as Greeks). 
So, just ask yourselves who causes all these problems, why do they do it,
how will they get what they want, etc. I am not an expert in political
analysis but I can tell that there is something behind all this discussion.
We've all been stuck at the name and not all of us look for the real problems: 
1)Exports through a place that used to be one nation now have to be done 
through many. That means taxes go up, cost goes up and exports go down. 
2) There is a constant source of trouble somewhere in the Balcans: Greek civil 
war, Bulgarian communistic administrations, Romanian dictatorships, Albanian 
chaos, etc. Now it seems the fire is on. So, ask those questions before getting
involved in sovinistic discussions. 
3) The economies of all the countries in the Balkans are among the worst in 
Europe. Does that ring a bell? Do other countries have to do with it? Does 
Germany and France and USA want to sell guns? Do they want to built new 
factories with cheap labor? Do they want to have nice cheap holidays?
Well, I don't want to say that this is that happens, only that there is a 
possibility that might be the case.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9699 soc.culture.bulgaria:1515 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9127
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:12:25 EDT
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Why this IRRELEVANT protest? (was: Two quizzes on Macedonia)


Luben Boyanov (lb@cs.man.ac.uk) writes in Message 6415@m1.cs.man.
ac.uk>

>   WHY DID YOU CLIPPED THE REST OF MY SENTENCE?????  THAT GIVES
>   COMPELETELY DIFFERENT MEANING OF MY THOUGHTS.

Ah... Please!  Why do you insult my intelligence?...
If anyone reads this sentence  he/she will think that I distorted
facts over some historic matter (stuff I usually discuss),when it
was you who had some incredible mistakes...
The truth is that I used one of your sentences for a minor-almost
negligent point  which does not justify your "lecture" on accura-
cy and clippings; actually the roles should be reversed as far as
coherency and consistency are concerned  -not to mention the cha-
racteristically extreme "rudeness" issue  (which I obviously fai-
led to pass across to you in the past).

I should probably use  the following part of our discussion Luben
(instead of the other one)  and  the meaning here is identical to
the one I commented on:
   AR: "No need to bet! I was the one who recommended the book to
        you..."
   LB: "I don't know if you've ever (and when) mentioned it.."
so I reminded you the date...and that is all that is worthy here!
As far as the imperfect clippings are concerned Luben, there have
been times that your chopping has even caused considerable misun-
derstanding in the past, I may add.

But, is this all you have to say about my response?
It is at least funny!
ALL the protest over... my recommending a specific book to you in
the past (or not)  is highly   t r i v i a l   and   c o m p l e-
t e l y    u n i m p o r t a n t.  I wonder why...

> If you don't want to play fair - it's up to you.

Ditto, but you are funny...
As I told you,  the day of your reading  a particular book is NOT
important in the discussion and even though I proved my point, it
n e v e r  was!   Actually it is a rather clumsy way to avoid/es-
cape  a topic,  or use harsh expressions (and make it appear that
all your previous insults are justified).  You could simply indi-
cate to me in another way if you wanted to ditch the  -unsuccess-
ful for you-  discussion instead of devising some sort of excuse.

>  Until  that  last  sentence I thought there can be a dialogue
>  again.

:-)  :-)  :-)
The threshold of the ridiculous Luben?  My last sentence was:
 "The posting was <92176.032316PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>. I posted it
using extracts from pages 100 to 105  and focused on the identity
during the very late 19th ce.-early 20th ce. After that I comple-
ted another text and you responded to both."


                                              Andronikos Romanos
From: c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: greeks can't swim
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:29:53 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

> >back) during summer. Is it any wonder we can't swim?

Panos wrote:

> The "We" should be replaced by "Athenians."

Most definitely :-). I've spent time in non-Athenian places (Nafplio,
Zakynthos) and these folks *really* know how to swim. No need for 
traffic jams, either...

Spiros
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9623 soc.culture.turkish:10563
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: A LIAR ( Re: ANSWER I TO SVILEN)
Summary: You must appologize for your lies.
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:48:18 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <92283.031115PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

[deleted]

>The only person  ever drawing a scenario about his country inva-
>ding the ex-Yugoslav republic was, I think, L.Boyanov...

YOU ARE A LIAR. I've not only never draw such scenario but always said that
nobody MUST and SHOULD invade Macedonia. DO APPOLOGIZE for this words, and
I'll get my words back. Until then - your intrigue led you to nothing more
but a BIG FAT LIE. I challenge all the netters to say if I have drawn
scenarios for invasions of Macedonia. I even ask all Macedonians from the
Republic of Macedonia, whith whom I had bitter arguments over our history,
to expose you Andronicus as lying in public.


Luben


--------------------------------------------------------------------
"There  are two thing infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And
I am not sure about the former."
				Albert Einstein
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:26:52 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <Bvv1y2.GDq@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu 
(Besime Erin) writes:
>In article <Oct06.194326.38784@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>>
>>It's based on the desire of the majority of the Cypriots to unite Cyprus
>>with Greece. Don't forget that in 1939 Hatay that had a 60 percent Turkish
>>population united itself with Turkey. The idea of enosis is contemporary
>>to that event. Why couldn't Cyprus which had 80 percent Greek population
>>unite itself with Greece?
>
>Simply because WE WON'T LET YOU.
>We: referring to Turkish Cypriots and Turkey.

Yes. The awesome power of the Turkish army that labels the wrong right.

By the way, the argument someone brought that 100 percent of Cypriots
should want enosis for it to happen is ridiculous. The majority can do
whatever it wants, except discriminate against the minority. Enosis with
Greece would not be discrimination.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MIRacles No. 13
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:49:10 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:

>From article <Bvrp4v.7pF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by pt8684@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis):
>> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>> 
>>>From article <BvpznF.K6L@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ):
>> 
>>   You want an answer?  I guess the British logic of stealing the ancient
>> treasures of ancient Greece and denying their return to Greece directly
>> follows Mr. Fears logic.
>> 
>>   I have something to tell you Mr. Fear. And I will tell it as much politely
>> as I can: Fuck you !!

>I think this tell us more about you than about your case, Panos!
>> 
>>   I'm not going to allow you to tell me which part of the Greek history
>>  belongs to the Greeks or not.  Got it?
>> 
>I won't comment on the persuasive cogency of Mr Tamamidis' logic (he
>really does know how to make friends and influence people, doesn't he?)

 You don't need to comment on my persuasiveness.  I was not trying to
 pursuade nobady.  Most of all, I was not trying to persuade Mr. Fear.
 Because I do not need to do this thing.  Macedonia itself, with its
 millennia lasting shining fame does not allow alteration of its history.
 Simply hearing the names of Aristotle and Alexander the Great who marked
 the history of the world, the first with his wisdom, and the latter with
 his bravery and his policies, should have brought him to his senses and
 should have deterred him from his attempt that does not withstand even
 elementary criticism.

 Therefore, it should be very clear why I respoded this way to Mr. Fear.
 Instead of discussing the matter with someone from Skopje, here he cames
 an idiotic character from UK, who God knows what kind of problems he has,
 suggesting that part of Macedonia's history should also belong to the
 people of Skopje.

 I think that his claim is outrageous.

>Richard Wallace

 Bye,

 Panos
From: scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT)
Subject: Time Criticized??
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 15 Oct 1992 13:45 EST  


Well, well, well.

So when you all don't like an article in Time you want to boycott it?

Why do I feel that if an article would ever appear criticizing Turkey, you
would accept it as the gospel truth?   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????

Face the facts people:  If they want to be called Macedonia, you can't
stop them.   How about if they call themselves NEW Macedonia?  Would
that make you feel better?

Perhaps the small community of Berlin, Ohio should change it's name so
as not to insult Germans?????????????????/

Or maybe Athens, Ohio should change it's name too??   What do you think??

Anxiously awaiting your flames people.  Fire away!

My views do not reflect my employer, NASA, or the US Government.  I do
relect the views of rational, thinking, un-paranoid people.

Eniste!



Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: mKyriak1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Maria Kyriakopoulou)
Subject: Hello! Come in Greece!!  
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:00:13 GMT

				I have been trying to find the adresses of some people at the
University of Greece.  Could someone please help me?  Is the university
part of this network, does it have E-Mail? What about a school called
Athens College?


								Thank
you!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9536 soc.culture.bulgaria:1487 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9041