From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - E41)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:10:28 GMT

This post is long.  It is primarily targeted at female readers.
It will attempt to show from an informed outsider's viewpoint where
Model Mugging is coming from and why on this particular list it
sounds a bit odd :-)  Please keep in mind that this kind of program
is a *good* thing.  A bit pricey, a bit hyped up, but a *good* thing.

From Andy's excellent questioning post:
First a fragment from Natalie:
>This does not mean that I think I
>am invincible, that is unrealistic. There are indeed situations where I
>might very well choose not to fight in order to survive. I trust myself
>to make that decision and if I choose to fight, I trust that I can knock
>the attacker out and avoid being sexually assaulted.

Then Andy replies:

	Ah! Clarification.  Thank you.

	I don't know much of anything about MM, but I *do* know a fair bit 
	about combat.  Physical combat is no joking matter and it can get
	real messy and dangerous, especially if you try to do the Bruce Lee
	when you don't really know how.  What worries me about courses such as 
	MM is the potential for giving misleading impressions as to how well 
	the student can hope to fare not only on the average, but in the 
	boundary cases as well.  I guess when you have seen so many charlatans
	peddling shit that has probably gotten more than a few persons killed,
	you tend to view anything that could even possibly be snake oil with
	a very cautious eye.

For brevity, I only copied the "bottom line".  There are no silver bullets.
If there was one it would be the extent of your training.  I ran into
this the several months I was doing my research for the WSD class I put
together (and thanks again for all the net.help!!!!!!!).  The WSD instructors
I talked to were rather secretive, they didn't want to let their secrets
out.... why?  Well, the bad guys(tm) might find out about them....
In the network security world this is called security by obscurity and is
a big NO NO.  It is OK, nay, it is great to have a big bag of tricks, but
you better not be counting on them, because there are NO silver bullets.
This is why there is no "best-real-world-street-art... well except for
tournament oriented commercial korean karate :-)

So yeah, it is great that there is a program the ladies get to hit full
contact (we did that in my program as well).  It is great that they focus
on a palmstrike rather than forefist punch, it is great they teach a
strategy and strike points.  It is great that they teach empowerment.
All these things are necessary!!!!!  All these things are important.

Keep in mind that the program is simply playing the odds.  If you are
in a rape situation and you fight back you drasticly increase the odds
the perp will back off and turn tail.  You also increase the odds of
(your own) injury and death.  Obviously they are playing for the first
case.  This is not a bad thing.  We know that we accept risk every time we
enter a doj* period, no exception.  That is what I really liked about the
san soo school in san diego, the enter at your own risk sign on the
doorway to the training floor.

So I haven't said a thing against model mugging or the ilk.  The problem
is the confidence can lead to a belief in capability that just ain't there.
They make light of the strength difference.  They ignore the plain and
simple fact that against an opponent that has paid their training dues
the 24 or so hours of training that they have ain't worth a wet paper bag.

Natalie, sez she trust that she can knock the attacker out.  Well hey, that
is interesting, I've been knocked out, I've knocked other poeple out, but I
have also shaken and see other people shake some serious blows.  I'm 6'2",
200 lbs,  I`ve got fast hands, sufficient stretch to kick to the head, 
I've logged a LOT of training hours and I don't trust that I can
knock someone out!  What does she know that I don't?  NOTHING.

Please allow me two stories:
Recently, I was giving a  belt promotion test.  A 2nd gup was testing for
first gup (senior brown).  There was no one of his size to spar.  Man
I really didn't want to do it since I was wearing my neatest, newest,
uniform, but I rolled my neck once, threw a stretch kick and called over
the most senior student to referee.  Now he was in full gear, I didn't
even have a cup or a mouthpiece.  He is probably has the best footwork of
any of the non BB adults, but he could not reach me.  After it was all 
over, he commented how shocked he was that I was so fast.  Fast had nothing
to do with it, he simply didn't have the skill needed to close and
engage me.

Lest I appear arrogant, I could tell any number of stories about when I
received the great honor of sparring a master.  I will choose Master Cho,
7th dan moo duk kwan.  This was a decade ago when I was fighting with a
joon rhee version of kickboxing.  I got a couple punches and kicks in,
but never anything solid, this guy was using angles, so that mostly my
strikes were hitting his uniform.... at that time I had a really fast
jab and that clearly had his full attention, so I started relying on it
a bit too much and then whoosh...... he had done one of those circular
snaking blocks up my jab arm, continued his hand to the back of my head,
pulled his palm over my face and ever so gently used my big nose to push
my face back till I fell over backwards.  In most of the other times I
sparred true masters similar fates befell me.  There was no substuting
my jab, or roundhouse kick for their experience!

So what is the point?  Put a graduate from MM against a MA with 10 or
so years and the MMer`s training will probably be insufficient to land
A SINGLE BLOW, this is especially true if the MAer is striking full
force as well.  The good news is MAs with that level of training have
channeled their aggressive tendancies and have come to peace with the
wielding of power.  They simply aren't likey to be rapists.  The bad
news is that prison is a great place to learn to fight.  I visit prisons
with a church ministry and have even brought my plastic breaking board
along (10 prisoners come to hear Stephen as evangelist, 100 prisoners
come to hear Stephen as BB evangelist) and some of these folk have excellent
power and technique... as in I wish my palm trust generated that kind of
shock!!!!!

So on this particular list with nerds like me wandering aroung claiming to
be junior sensei :-) trained for all these many years in multiple styles
(and some of us are even telling the truth!!!!!) the claims of model mugging
ring seriously hollow.  It isn't that these claims are as bogus as they
sound, it is from the point of view of an experience MA, they just gotta
be joking.  I hope this makes sense.  I hope it isn't offensive.  Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts