HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Satan as Heaven's Worship Leader
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:21:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.145625.20590@news.cs.indiana.edu> azamora@cs.indiana.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.210517.8715@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu  
>writes:
>> On to my reference, though.  It is found in Isaiah 14.
>> 
>> The passage starts off in verse 4, which says "you will take up this taunt
>> against the king of Babylon and say".  Now, even though this is supposedly
>> said TO the king of Babylon, it is apparent later in the chapter that Satan
>> is being spoken of - "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the 
>> morning, son of the dawn!  You have been cut down to the earth...You said
>> in your heart, I will ascend to heaven, I will raise my throne above the
>> stars of God...I will make myself like the Most High" (vv. 12-14)
>> 
>> Give that this is in all likelihood speaking of Satan (after all, who else
>> has attained to Godhood and fallen from heaven?), we come to the section
>> of the chapter that is being used by those who make the above assertion:
>
>Actually, I think this passage might be referring to man instead of to Satan.   
>In Genesis 3, we find out that one of the reasons Adam and Eve ate from the  
>tree was that they wanted to be like gods.  In essence, they were saying in  
>their heart, "I will make myself like the Most High."  Of course, Adam and Eve  
>fell from Paradise and were kicked out of the garden.  So I think it is  
>appropriate to say that they fell from heaven and "have been cut down to the  
>earth."

That was my first reaction, too.  The notes in my NIV Study Bible read
as follows:

14:12-15        Some believe that Isaiag is giving a description of the
	fall of Satan (cf. Lk 10:18--where, however, Jesus seems to be
	referring to an event contemporary with himself).  But the
	passage clearly applies to the king of Babylon, who is later
	used as a type (prefiguration) of the "beast" who will lead the
	Babylon of the last days (see Rev 13:4; 17:3).  Cf. the
	description of the ruler of Tyre in Eze 28.

While it is not unreasonable to draw similarities between this passage
and the fall of Satan (and, indeed, everyone in one sense or another),
its most direct addressee is the actual King of Babylon at that time.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: New FMG albums--Shout
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:26:53 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug12.141515.10749@cs.rose-hulman.edu> pearsodc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (D) writes:
>
 So, we got this sampler of new Frontline Music Group songs down at the  
 radio station, and what to my wondering eyes should appear but new tracks  
 by Mad At The World, Brian Healy/D.A.S. and (this one really bugged my  
 eyes out) SHOUT?  Is Shout back together?  Do they have a new album out?   
 Oh Lord, please say it is so...

Shout's not exactly 'back together,' but a couple of months ago they came out
with a greatest hits album, which also includes the superlong version of
'In Your Face' from one of the Hot Metal Summer samplers, a remix (mainly
new drums) of 'Give Me an Answer,' and TWO NEW SONGS.  The songs are, musically,among the best that Shout has ever done, although they are both a bit 
repetitive lyrically.  But they are worth your $10.88, especially if you're
a Shout fan.

Also, i read somewhere that they're leaving the door open for a reunion
(possibly) sometime in the future.  Here's hopin'!

JRjr
-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:24:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.183949.4270@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
>I was just reading in Romans 15 that NOTHING is unclean in itself.  It's only
>how we take it as individuals.  To say that oscillations of air molecules have
>associated moral/ethical concepts has always been amusing to me.  The same
>goes for assigning ethical beliefs to instituions.  I have heard many say that
>"Stairway to Heaven" is a Satanic song.  I'm always moved by what I perceive
>as its Christian message ("there are two roads you can go by and there's still
>time to change the road you're on...").  The morality is in how YOU take it.

Sorry.  "I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in
itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
[Romans 14:14 (NASB)]  This does not suggest relativism, but that on issues
of conscience, nothing is automatically wrong.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:23:13 GMT

>In article <1992Aug18.215410.22880@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
 
>   Any person who has been born-again has the Holy Spirit within them.
>   They should be able to discern flesh from spirit.
>   I used to be "into" really hard rock quite a few years back.
>   When I listen to "Christian" music that is is "fleshly", I can sense
>   it.  When I listen to music that brings praise and adoration to God,
>   I can sense it.  The question is, What do I want to listen to,
>   that which is fleshly or that which is spiritual?  As Christians,
>   we should choose spiritual things rather than fleshly.

The terms "flesh" and "spirit" have quite specific meanings in 
Scripture.  There are specific attitudes and behaviors attached
to both.  Paul writes about these attitudes and behaviors in many
places, but, just for the sake of example, let's look at 
Galatians 5.  Here we see that the flesh is characterized by
envy, slander, drunkenness, sexual immorality, etc., and that 
the spirit is characterized by love, joy, peace, patience, etc.

The point being that for Christian music to be considered "fleshly," 
it ought to be characterized by the deeds of the flesh - envy,
slander, drunkenness, etc.  I'm curious to know what Christian
music you've been listening to.  It surely sounds different from
anything I've heard.

I certainly don't want to discount the leading of the Holy Spirit.
But I find that discernment comes primarily from having our minds
renewed, and that this process doesn't bypass our normal responsibility
to think.  Therefore, I'm not quite sure what to do with statements
about "sensing" the flesh or the spirit.  I believe that such
"sensing" is valid, and that God does indeed work in this way,
but if it is indeed of God then the witness of the Spirit should 
correspond to those attitudes and behaviors that the Bible clearly 
labels as godly or ungodly.  I've heard plenty of objectionable theology 
in Christian music, but I've yet to hear Christian music that
advocates the general debauchery and self-centeredness that seems
to characterize the life of the flesh.  Quite honestly, alarm
bells go off in my head when I hear references to "fleshly"
Christian music, and I think it might be helpful for all of us
if you could substantiate your claim.

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com

(who isn't feeling particularly prickly-pulsy today)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Subject: Re: Larry Norman (was Re: R.M.C. Desert Island Quiz #2)
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.134324.26087@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>In article <19AUG92.19271295.0023@lafibm.lafayette.edu> BD32@lafibm.lafayette.edu (Fritz Block, LCF Summer President) writes:
>>>
>>  Artist or Group   Album
>>
>>1. Larry Norman     Upon This Rock
>>2. Larry Norman     Down Under (but not out)
>>3. Larry Norman     So Long Ago the Garden
>>4. Larry Norman     Something New Under the Son
>>7. Larry Norman     Stranded in Babylon
>
>Okay, anybody who would squander five of his ten choices on one
>artist has me intrigued :-)
>
I can kind of relate though, having found it nearly impossible to keep
down to ten with a handful of artists whose albums I enjoy tremendously
on a relatively equal basis.  I like Larry too, but...

>I like Larry, but I haven't really kept up with his recordings for a
>long time.  I have "So Long Ago the Garden," "Only Visiting This
>Planet," "In Another Land," and "Something New Under the Sun."
>That's it.  I suspect I'm missing some good music, but I also know
>that I stopped buying Larry's albums because I got tired of
>spending my hard-earned cash on retreads and previously released
>songs.  Given the fact that I really like the four albums I own,
>but that I don't like them enough to buy the same songs in
>different packages, which Larry Norman albums should I be looking
>for?  Thanks.
> 
>Andy Whitman

Okay, Andy.  I think we're relatively similar as far as taste goes, so
here's my two cents:

IMO, you have the best of the Norman material.  Upon This Rock, Bootleg,
and Street Level are respectible as well, but I have yet to hear
Stranded In Babylon, which some claim is his best work since SNUTS, but
I've found 99% of the stuff he's done since SNUTS to be really lazy,
musically and lyrically shallow, and total garbage.  He's still trying
to recycle all the 70's Jesus movement slogans and tack on passionless
melodies.  He seems to have totally lost his vision.  Most friends of
mine are so ticked that they won't even give "...Babylon" a listen, and
I'm not going to shell out money for it until one of these people I
respect says he really HASN'T lost it.  SYNDICATE, one of the few
Christian music zines to have the guts to give bad reviews, only
reinforced my pessimism.

Pick up the LSU stuff you're missing instead.

Enjoying my In Another Land import CD,
Michael.

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Subject: Re: Some hints needed about CCM tours, stores in the U.S.
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:31:53 GMT

In article <9908@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> peaki@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>Hi all,
>
>It looks like I'm going to be in the U.S. next
>month, which is great for a few reasons; for one it means that
>I can finally chase up some more hard-to-find DA music
>that I'd really like to hear.
>Would some kind folks like to tell me about the (best) places to
>find CCM around the Boston and/or Palo Alto areas..?
>
Hmmm.  Don't know about those cities, but if it's like most of the US,
places that stock stuff like the currently-available DA catalog are few
and far between.  Most stores can special order this stuff, though, so
you may want to order them as soon as you arrive, telling them you're
leaving the country in a month.  Or you can call True Tunes in Wheaton
(at 1-800-669-TRUE) and place an order with them while you're here.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Ian
>
>P.S. I guess there's also a chance of my colliding
>:-) with a concert or two.. does anyone have information
>regarding tours by Petra, Chagall Guevarra, DA/Eddies
>or MWS during late September?
>-- 
Heh, heh.  Well, it seems like Petra is perpetually on tour, and MWS
tours quite a bit, but don't count on running into either a Chagall
Guevara or DA concert.  Few promoters ever book Christian alternative
bands because the draw is so small.  The last time DA toured was in 1986
and there's no indication that they will EVER tour again.  Your only
chance at these bands is generally where they live (Nashville, TN and
southern California respectively) or at a festival like Cornerstone or
Greenbelt.  Sorry. 

Well enjoy yourself and happy hunting on the DA material!

Michael.
From: colette@bwdls46.bnr.ca (Colette George)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:43:39 GMT
Reply-To: colette@bwdls46.bnr.ca (Colette George)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <1992Aug18.215410.22880@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
|> 
|>   Any person who has been born-again has the Holy Spirit within them.
|>   They should be able to discern flesh from spirit.
|>   I used to be "into" really hard rock quite a few years back.
|>   When I listen to "Christian" music that is is "fleshly", I can sense
|>   it.  When I listen to music that brings praise and adoration to God,
|>   I can sense it.  The question is, What do I want to listen to,
|>   that which is fleshly or that which is spiritual?  As Christians,
|>   we should choose spiritual things rather than fleshly.

Gee, ya gotta hate that "fleshly" Christian music.  Sounds like a disease.
What the heck is "fleshly", anyway?  And exactly what *Christian* music
do you consider un-spiritual???

===================================================================
Colette George 			
Bell-Northern Research Ltd. 	Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Internet:  colette@bnr.ca 
===================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: joni@apollo.HP.COM (Joni Sini)
Subject: Re: Amy Bashing 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:39:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug11.125243.15096@bnr.ca>, candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario) writes:
|> Joi,
|> 
|>      Absolutely right.....
|> 
|> 
|> Dave
|> 
|> Standard disclaimers
|> No quotes

I'm quite late but I give another 'yea' to your view.  Some of the comments
in the posts made me wide eyed with surprized. The spectrum is remarkable.
But I agree wholeheartedly,  our walks are personal and between the individual
and God.  I personally think Amy is Brave, obedient and I thank God for her.

Joni
From: kim@techbook.com (Kim Larsen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: People is not America (was Amy)
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:17:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Aug15.051746.13366
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 644-8135

In article <1992Aug13.003927.21973@aero.org> sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien) writes:
>This brings up a subject that has been nagging at me way in the foggy back
>of my mind, but which is now being involuntarily spewed onto my keyboard:
>"The Media" is as much a propoganda machine, and as much a PR device as
>it is a "news" source.

I have a problem with this, having gone to journalism school and worked on
newspapers for several years before leaving for the more lucrative (i.e.,
above subsistence level-wages) field of technical writing.

First, "The Media" is not a monolithic structure--there is a great difference
between the Texarkana Gazette, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and the LA Times,
for example.  Much of the "personality" of the paper tends to come from the
publisher, and this can vary greatly, depending on whether the publisher
is liberal, conservative, libertarian, etc.  In addition, some
publishers are chains, like Scripps-Howard.

The goal of publishers is to sell newspapers.  The goal of reporters is
to get the story, because if they don't someone else surely will, and
then they haven't done their job.

>The liberal agenda in particular finds much of its
>voice and expression in the media.

In fact, although most reporters do tend to be liberal, most publishers
are in fact conservative, although this can vary, as I said above.
The publishers tend to set the tone for the paper, NOT the reporters.

>OK, so why am I saying this? Because I always look carefully at an article
>to see 1. What are they trying to accomplish  2. What is the "spin" on the
>article -- how are they interpreting things for the reader, 3. What
>words are they using to describe an activity or person and how does that
>wording create an impression.

One can certainly see an individual reporter's bias come through on
certain stories, and even an entire newspaper's bias on occasion.
But there really is no great big "they" out there trying to discredit
conservatives and fundamentalist Christians.

I think part of what you perceive as an agenda is simply people viewing
something differently than you would, seeing it from the outside, whereas
your view would be that of an insider.  Most reporters are
proud of their ability to stand outside an issue, to see what someone
else might not.

>to see Christians using the word fundementalist derisively, blindly imitating
>the liberal media's example.

To me, "the liberal media" is also a derisive term, saying a) the
media all have the same goal and b) being a liberal is a bad thing.  It's
a catchall phrase, which I don't care for.

And now, back to music...

  --Kim

ps I cannot speak with any authority on broadcast journalism, as that
was neither part of my education nor my experience.

-- 
kim@techbook.COM    Not affiliated with TECHbooks
----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: Falwell, Ankerberg, Walter Martin...
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:10:41 GMT

In article <satoell.920815200239@eng.auburn.edu> satoell@eng.auburn.edu (Ellen Ayumi Sato) writes:
>
>Could anybody tell me who Jerry Falwell, John Ankeberg, and Walter Martin are?
>I've heard their names a number of times, but haven't read any book they've
>written, watched them on TV, or heard them preaching/teaching.  Do they have 
>anything to do with Liberty University, the Christian Research Institute, etc?

Walter Martin was an author and (I believe) a professor at Gordon
Conwell Theological Seminary.  The book for which I am familiar with
him is called _Kingdom of the Cults_, and examines the characteristics
of various cults and world religions from a Christian viewpoint.

What impressed me the most about this work was the degree to which it
is documented: the chapter on Mormonism, for example, includes over a
hundred footnotes citing original sources.  While the book is hardly an
"I'm okay, you're okay", relativistic work, neither does it make
unfounded accusations.  Even theological critiques are carefully
documented.

Dr. Martin was also recognized as an authority on cults and world
religions due to his extensive travels and research in the field, and
his subsequent efforts in evangelizing to members of cults. (turnabout
is fair play; can I interest you in some literature? :-)

In any case, I am pretty sure Walter Martin had no connection to
Liberty University, and I don't think I have heard him mentioned in
connection with CRI.  The only institution to which he was connected
was Gordon Conwell, to my knowledge.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ras@controls.ccd.harris.com (Russell Soule)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Originator: ras@sp1
Organization: Harris Controls
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:52:47 GMT


In article <1992Aug20.150255.9515@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug18.155229.9717@eecs.nwu.edu>, phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
|> >Many years ago, a few friends of mine and I recorded "Stairway" on a
|> >reel-to-reel deck, looped the tape over the capstan backwards and 
|> >proceeded to listed to the entire 7(?) minutes backwards (no digital
|> >sampling back in those days).  We listened very intently for those
|> >evil, Satan-inspired, lyrics, figuring that when we heard them we would 
|> >know.  Guess what?  We never heard them.  So, in my humble opinion, if
|> >they are there they are so subdued and unobvious that I really don't
|> >see why everyone is so concerned about them.  If you can't even hear
|> >it backwards, what's the big deal?  Sounds like a witch hunt to me.
|> 
|> The key is, as another poster has said, is listening "closely enough."  If
|> you listen closely enough, you can hear just about anything you want.  The
|> mind loves to form patterns in chaos, like the sound of a song being played 
|> backwards.  That's why people see patterns in clouds, inkblots, etc.

I remember reading an article a while back (maybe 10 years ago) where a bunch
of psychologists played a selection of songs backwards to two groups. They
told the first group that they would hear drug and satanic references. They
didn't tell that to the second group. Well, guess what. The first group
heard all sorts of drug and satanic references and the second group didn't.

|> 
|>   -- Scott @Brandeis
|> 
|>                            I asked Jesus,
|>                      "How much do you love me?"
|>                      "This much," He answered;
|>                         and He stretched out
|>                          His arms and died.

Russ

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-      =              Jesus Christ is the answer.                    =    -
=    =====         Now, what was your question again?              =====  =
-      =                 --------------------                        =    -
=      =            God doesn't believe in atheists                  =    =
-      =  A fool says in his heart that there is no God (Psalm 14:1) =    -
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: toma@romulus.cray.com (Thomas Arneberg)
Subject: Regeneration: what albums do they have?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:25:52 CDT

Sorry to interrupt this group with a question about Christian music, but
has anyone here heard of a group called Regeneration?

I heard a song on the radio the other day that was pure unadulterated 
harmony sung a cappella (my favorite kind), and the DJ says it was by
Regeneration. 

My question is, do they have album(s) with lots of this type of thick,
rich, gooey vocal harmony, or was this song I heard an anomoly for them?
(If the former, I'm going to order one!)

Thanks,
  - Tom A.
---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
;-) I'd rather be ____  Thomas R. Arneberg   | Inet: toma@cray.com
:-) singing in a |____| Senior IC Design Eng.| UUCP: ...!uunet!cray!toma
:-) Barbershop  _|   _| Cray Research, Inc.  | CLAIM TO FAME: Loni Anderson 
:-) Quartet!   (_)  (_) Chippewa Falls, Wisc.|   went to my high school 
---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian