HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original-From: 55539-Duncan <ixcim!bill>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:25:57 CDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         bill@IXCIM.ATT.COM
Subject:      Re: CREATIVE DRAMA

Isaac has ONE game that falls under the category of pretend
play that just sort of evolved over time - he'll grumble "I'm
a monster! Rarrrgh!", walk over to me with his arms up and fall
on top of me. I'm suppose to overact being scared. He won't do
role reversal or script changes. But it's cute :-)

Bill Duncan

P.S. Anyone have any experience with Anafranil? Isaac's been on it
for about three weeks now, it's seems to have cleared up his black
moods and crying jags. His language has gone down a little but he's
checking things out more.
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:10:20 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: More "coming out of the closet"

Judy,

Sensitivity to criticism is just one of the many sensitivies my family has, as
well.

One of the main problems that Kevin had in accepting Chris was witnessing him
bursting into tears whenever he was criticized for anything. I also had this
problem (still could under the right circumstances...... being in a powerless
position) as a child and teenager. Low self-esteem renders us even more
vulnerable to criticism - put that combination together and the risk of the
child attempting suicide increase enormously. I attempted suicide at the ripe
old age of 11 and Chris made one weak attempt about a year ago, but I know he
had considered that option before that.

Another embarrassing problem I've always had is that I lose bladder control if
I'm startled in any way but criticism can have the same effect on me - if it
doesn't come out one end it comes out the other. :-)

Carolyn
(Sorry about so many posts all at once - but you, people, shouldn't say such
interesting things to get me started talking, because then I can't stop. :-))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
From: jbadner@world.std.com (JA Badner)
Subject: Re: Addendum
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:11:50 GMT

debg@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (ginsberg deborah) writes:


>I think I was less than clear in what I meant when cautioning people to 
>avoid romantising autism.  I know that many subcribers to this list
>are diagnosed HFA's and I was in no way referring to them.  However,
>when I first posted about my sister, I received or saw a number of replies.
>When reading most of them, I thought most writers had a good grasp of what
>autism was and what its inherent problems were.  However, I got the feeling
>that a few perceived autism as a general personality type, and as 
>I hadn't yet posted some of the more extreme aspects of my sister's behavior,
>I could see how they might have arrived at that conclusion.  I just wanted
>to put out a general caution that autism was a real problem, and they
>should consider it as a whole before accepting the label.  

I suspect I'm one of the people you're referring to (because of some of my
postings here).  I don't think I would be ever diagnosed as autistic and
so far, my psychiatry colleagues and supervisors have never suggested the
possibility.  I don't have many of the traits of my niece, Abby, who is
clearly autistic.  However, there is a resonance between what some 
people describe and my personal experiences so I think it would be
fair to say I have traits which may be autistic in nature.  Now, if you
see autism as something you are or aren't, I'm not autistic.  But if
you see it as a continuum of characteristics, than I would say that
I'm further along the continuum than most people.  Now whether my traits
are called autistic or not really doesn't change anything in my life
but it does give me some understanding of why I was so different from
most people I knew.

Judy
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:39:38 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Daniel Mont <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Making the first appoarch (Was Re: Poetic Gifts)
              7 Oct 1992 21:16:34 +1000 from <LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>

Children are generally more self-centered than adults -- it is inherent
to their developmental stage -- I think that is why it is so charming
when a child displays empathy.  However, my own personal experience
is very different from others writing in regarding empathy and autistic
children.  My non-autistic son Simon can be very empathic and one of the
most empathic children I know is a 5 year old family friend who is
also not autistic.  And my nieces have a very strong bond and always
look out for each other and care about each other's feelings to a
very strong degree.  The autistic children I know (and they number 6)
on the whole *express* (notice I did not say *feel*) much less empathy.

Dan M.
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Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:57:24 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: FTP on BITNET
              15 Oct 1992 19:54:17 EDT from
              <axy01%albnydh2.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>

Just had an interesting quirk from mindreader.  It worked fine on a:, if
I set the default to a:, but <a:rm> from c: would not load.  I have not
loaded it to c:  I'll let you know if it bombs.

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:22:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Speed Bump <DNWIEBE@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Attachment to a computer

Thomas B writes:
>Has anyone else seen or experienced a case like this where a person
>appeared to develop a human attachment to a machine, or at least to
>communicate with a machine in a very human way? I have heard of other
>cases where people on kidney dialysis machines form similar attachments.

        I don't get human companionship (now that I know what it is) from a
computer, but there are many times when I'll prefer interacting with a machine
to interacting with a person, merely because interacting with a (normal) person
requires comprehension and exercise of a whole bunch of unspoken conventions
that interaction with a computer or other machine doesn't.  Computers are
very straightforward, predictable, and deterministic; people are none of these.
I'll gladly pay transaction fees for the privilege of using an automated
teller machine rather than going into the bank and having to talk to a real
person; I'll drive several miles out of my way to fill up at a gas station
that has credit-card readers on its pumps, rather than having to talk to
a real person; I'll happily spend my entire weekend playing with my computer
instead of socializing with real people.
        There are exceptions to this.  People I know well, and who know me
well, can be preferable to machines.  Machines can provide a sense of
security, and they can be intellectually absorbing and fun; but they can't
be friends.  People can be friends--at least some of them can.  (Note: there
was a time that I didn't know this; I had no idea what real friendship was
like.  I spent most of that period of my life communing with computers; an
outside observer might easily have incorrectly surmised that they were my
friends.)
        Hope this helps..

Shalom,
Dan
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Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:34:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DSS93@GENESEO.BITNET
Subject:      Question

Hello everyone! My name is Dawn Sutton. I'm a senior speech pathology
student at SUNY Geneseo. I have been watching the distribution for a
couple of weeks now and have learned lots about something I knew very
little about...AUTISM. Anyway, I have a question to ask. Do autistic
individuals differ from culture to culture in terms of characteristics,
behaviors..etc? Are they diagnosed differently? How much is FC used
in other cultures? (O.k. I have a couple of questions..)

                                -Dawn Sutton DSS93@GENESEO
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 23:50:39 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Making the first appoarch (Was Re: Poetic Gifts)

Dan,

>The autistic children I know (and they number 6)
>on the whole *express* (notice I did not say *feel*) much less empathy.

This seems to be quite true from reading the literature. One of the reported
characteristics of autistic children is that they don't *express* empathy -
they cannot perceive different moods in others and react in a socially
acceptable manner.

As a child, Chris resembled Alex.... but earlier in his life there was one
episode that would appear to deny what the literature reports.....one
afternoon while he was playing on the floor in the lounge room, I was
sitting on the lounge feeling extremely depressed and tears started rolling
down my cheeks. He looked up, came over to me, cradled by face with his hands
and said "Don't cry, Mummy..... I still love you!"

From my own experience at funerals, I know I feel the sorrow of the family of
the deceased but I can never find the 'right words' to say what I feel, so I
usually avoid saying anything at all..... much better to say nothing than to
say something inappropriate...... it's too easy for me to do that - all I have
to do is open my mouth.

Carolyn
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:44:19 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Attachment to a computer

Tom,

I don't think it is that we endow our computers with 'personalities' (although
I sometimes wonder if mine hasn't a will of its own) nor do I imagine that
it is my 'friend'.... it's more that I know what to expect from it. It responds
'literally' to my instructions. It doesn't care what sort of mood I happen to
be in - it still responds the same way. I also don't have to worry about how
to interpret it's responses and therefore it is a lot less mentally exhausting
than interacting with real people.

I  remember when I first started reading SF and dreamt of having an android
for a friend... someone predictable that I could relate to. The closest I
ever came to that type of relationship was with my cat. The next group would
be my children but I still find them 'mentally exhausting' a lot of the time
..... I guess even they are too much like 'real people' for me to be able to
totally relax in their presence. :-)

Dr. Roger Coldwell referred to me as a 'machine person' and that fairly well
describes the way I felt as a child and adolescent. It took me a lot time to
get in tune with my emotions...... I often was reduced to tears during this
time in my life because I could feel nothing for any other person in my life..
I KNEW there was something wrong with me that I was indifferent to my father
and sisters - everyone kept telling me that I was supposed to 'love' them. The
only person that I really felt anything for was my mother but that was more at
the level of 'like' rather than the bond people call 'love'. Even after all
these years of practising 'emotional awareness' I still have 'feel nothing'
days and I know from conversations I've had with my son, Chris, over the years
he is like this too.

Carolyn
(PS. Sorry I wandered off topic - it's very difficult for me sometimes to
disassociate things in my mind. In this case it was 'computers - machines
lacking emotions' being interpeted from an 'egocentric' viewpoint. :-))
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:13:09 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Stuff
              Oct 12, 92 10:48 am

The discussion between James & Speed Bump bring a thought to
mind about the need for "scientific" exploration of F/C. We
sensibly teach those who are blind how to orient themselves to
their surroundings, and how to get around. Trained dogs are
frequently used. Is there any "scientific evidence" that this
training and these expensive animals "work"? Do we need to know
that before we devote money (family, medical insurance, or from
taxpayers) to help the blind learn to find their way around?
Was such "scientific evidence" necessary in order for these
programs to become routinely available to the visually impaired?

   Just a question ... :-Q

       Anne
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:14:46 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Stuff

Dan,

I hope Lauren understands that that's not abnormal for us. I can't stand
prolonged body contact with anyone either - not once it's gone past the
point of being 'constructive'.

Carolyn
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:26:39 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Attachment to a computer

Carolyn,
   The Commodore 64!  Wow! What a co-incidence I don't suppose you have
any of the programs or games that your kids used on this?   I have a
Commodore 64 but have never found a whole lot of usefull Educational
software for it.  I would love to see what they did.  I guess we should
handle this one off the net.  Let me know, though I'm terribly interested
in this, it may be just what I was looking for.



Thanks,
Ray Kopp
Syracuse, New York
Internet:rjkopp@mailbox.syr.edu
Bitnet:RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:33:35 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: CREATIVE DRAMA

Lisa,

I agree with you. I don't think we can force our children into pretend play...
it just seems to come when it's ready.

Both Helen and Chris were late in developing it. Chris was about 8 years old
the first time he started pretend play with cars. I've always suspected about
an 18 months delay in a lot of Helen's developmental behavioural problems and
that seems to be reaffirmed by her very recent advances in this area. It is
only in the last month that she has actually started playing with dolls and
stuffed animals (play rather than just cuddling or stroking them). Just
before she went to bed tonight she was sitting beside me playing with her toys
- who were having a very complicated conversation about going to a party
tomorrow, the different voices supplied by Helen, of course. Although my ears
are extremely sound sensitive now, it was nice to hear her playing as a
'normal' child. The word is that she is now also playing games at school with
the other children - they've been playing "Flying Doctors" pretending someone
has an accident and then the 'flying doctors' come and take him/her to
hospital after administering first-aid using tissues for bandages and pencils
are syringes. Helen apparently loves the game.... provided she can be one of
the 'doctors' - evidently she refuses to play otherwise. So, her social
development still leaves something to be required - but she's getting there.:-)

Carolyn
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:54:49 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Daniel Mont <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More "coming out of the closet"
              7 Oct 1992 22:10:20 +1000 from <LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>

I think the reason why Alex is also more sensitive to criticism than
non-autistic children I know has to do with his literallness.  If
someone tells him "he's a baby" he gets very, very upset.  He
does not realize that this is just an attempt to "get his goat".
I think he tends to take it as a statement of fact and thus takes
it much more to heart.  He used to be worse in this area, but he is
still quite sensitive.
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:14:32 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Facilitated Communication Question

Carolyn,
  I think there are a couple big pushes to have it authenticated
scientifically.  My one big reason is that since it's beginning many
cases of sexual abuse have been reported by children who are non-
verbal.  If it weren't for the facilitation, no-one would ever have
known, unless they really delved into it and probably with phychiatric
help to understand what was causing different stresses in the child.
Unfortunatly many of these failed in prosecution, due to the fact that
Facilitation is not a scientifically proven means of communication.
Granted I feel they shouldn't have relied on Facilitation alone as the
evidence, but still it would have been a help if it was authenticated,
at least for the individual child.
  Secondly there are parents, like myself and others who don't want to
put their children through stressful situations unless they can see an
outcome that will help the children.  The learning of Facilitation for
some children can be stressful,  Shawna typed without too much stress
with the people she knew for years relativly easy, they introduced it to
her.  Then when it was attempted to develope it more and introduce it
into the school curriculum it was a little stressful.  She did grow to
accept it and it helps her in many useful ways, however if someone I
didn't know and someone Shawna didn't know sat down and tried it with
her, they would meet with great resistance, since my daughter doesn't
allow anyone to touch her, even hold her hand until she has a strong
relationship with them or needs it for support in going up or down
stairs.  If that had been the case my wife and I might have been very
reluctant to permit it to continue, if the results didn't show up fairly
quick.  And I'm sure I am not the only parent that feels this way.
  So I think there are a couple of strong issues.  One other strong one
is that when successful it shows that these children are not retarded
in the sense that so many professionals had and still do assume them
to be just because of outward appearances.

Thanks,
Ray Kopp
Syracuse, New York
Internet:rjkopp@mailbox.syr.edu
Bitnet:RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:48:42 -0500
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         James Bordner <jobg0542@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Stuff

James writes:

> >I came across the analogy between autism and blindness somewhere which
> >I think is a fairly good one.  Like blind people can't see, autistics
> >can't express themselves in the usual way.

Speed Bump writes:

>      Lots of emphasis on the "in the usual way" part.  I think it's probably
> incorrect to say that autistics can't communicate the way blind people can't
> see.  I can communicate.

Hi Speed Bump,
When I wrote this I was thinking more of low-functioning autism than
high-functioning; sorry-- I should have been more explicit.  I too can
communicate, though apparently not always very accurately :-) :-).  The
aspect of the analogy that I think is important though is that autistics,
whatever functioning level they are, have difficulty with some types of
communication _not_ because they simply feel they can't communicate or
don't want to.

I view high-functioning autistics not as being "blind", but as having a
communication "blind spot".  For example, when I attend lectures I can usually
follow what the professor is talking about without any more difficulty than
other students.  If someone asks the professor a question though, especially
if the question opens up a discussion, I usually have a hard time following
what's said.

I still view low-functioning autistics as being "blind" in a way.  Of course,
they can still communicate, but they have to do so by other means, e.g.
facilitation.  Like blind people can still sense their surroundings by
other means, e.g. sound, touch, smell, etc.

Speed Bump writes:

>         Probably it would be more accurate to compare an autistic to someone
> who didn't have the standard sense of sight, but instead had some exotic
> sense that provided a gamut of information that overlapped, but not
> necessarily coincided with, the gamut provided by sight.

Perhaps whatever aspect of communication autistics are missing uncovers
another aspect which usually remains overshadowed, lies dormant, or is repressed
in non-autistics?  I can see that... :)

take care,
--james
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:09:20 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         TBN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Experimental Opportunity...NOT!

James Canaday writes:


=== Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 08:03:41 CDT
=== From:         James Canaday <CANADAY@UKANVM.BITNET>
=== Subject:      Experimental Opportunity?

The U.S. presidential candidates' debate tonight presents a wonderful
opportunity for new research on brain function.
    It occurred to me that with all the expertise concentrated at Washington
University, the site of tonight's debate, that PET scans ought to be
performed during the debate.  It could determine the active brain
centers which the candidates would engage during debating.  It might also
serve to identify particular  areas associated with particular topics.
This experiment with N=3 could also serve to test the hypothesis that brain
centers are involved at all in political discourse and campaigning.
jc


Sounds great in theory, but have you all heard of a phenomenon known as
a "floor effect"?

cheers, :-)

Tor

Tor Neilands, Systems Analyst
Statistical Support Services

Internet: TBN@Utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Phone: (512)-471-3241, Extension 263
Address: Com 1
         Mail Code 12700
         UT Ausin
         Austin, TX  78712

" Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and
  I...I took the road less traveled, and
  that has made all the difference ".
                          --- Robert Frost
Disclaimer: All views expressed above and herein are only those of
the author and do not necessarily represent the views of the University
of Texas, the UT Comp Center, and anyone else I've forgotten to include
in this disclaimer.