HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Welding aluminmum bellhousing
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 09:16:30 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

tceisele@mtu.edu (Eisele) writes:

>No, you cannot weld aluminum with an arc welder.  The coating on the rods
>does not give enough protection from atmospheric oxygen, and the molten
>aluminum puddle will oxidize really badly.  

Actually aluminum stick welding is possible.  MG chemicals sells an 
aluminum specialty rod.  Not something to be trifled with by beginners
but certainly doable for an experienced welder.

>I understand that gas-welding
>aluminum is possible with a highly reducing flame, but does not really do
>all that well because carbon dioxide is not too good of a shielding gas for
>aluminum.  

I have some flux-cored aluminum welding rods that work fairly well.  The
flux is the shielding material.  The problem comes in an acetylene 
flame not being able to deliver heat fast enough to melt the weld
without causing bulk melt. I have done field-expedient welds on 
racing engines with these rods but it was not pretty.

>I assume the housing is cast aluminum, which is pretty easy to
>break and may not handle the thermal stress very well.  If the aluminum
>fill doesn't bond (either because of oxidation, or because of carbon
>deposits from the reducing flame) then you could have a real mess on your
>hands.  I would practice on some scrap aluminum castings first.

The most complicated part is that Honda is famous for using magnesium and/or
zinc in their die casting alloy.  The magnesium alloy can be welded
but a backing shielding gas must be used to prevent combustion.  If 
zinc is involved, welding is almost impossible.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Drill Press Arbor
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:53:42 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <1ilii4INNnq6@crcnis1.unl.edu> vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu (victor porguen) writes:
>ag900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Burris) writes:
>
>
>>Is there any way to prevent a M.T. drill press arbor from slipping out
>>of the spindle ?

Try rubbing blackboard chalk on both parts after cleaning them.

From: markw@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Mark Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:09:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Firepot on a forge (coal/gas/charcoal)
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking

Please post more gas forge details.  A FAQ for this group would also be
a godsend.

I am trying to decide whether to go the traditional coal forge route or use
propane, which I have around for heaters anyway.  I have seen MAPP gas
talked about for brazing -- any experience to share??
From: cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Copper Plating material
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:47:58 GMT
Organization: ExuCom Multimedia Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]



Hello all.

I need to copper plate some metals that I plan to soft solder.
1:	is it possible to copper plate tin/lease alloys
2:	What is the proper way to do this?

Thanks!

Cyberman
-- 
This is my sig file!
Read rec.games.programer!
From: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM (John Kopf,D,6305)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Al and Steel : some questions
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:19:28 GMT
Reply-To: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

for Aluminum, you can anodize -- and in color (remember those aluminum drinking 
"glasses" that were so popular a few years ago, in red, blue etc?).

For rust protection on iron/steel, have you considered "tinning"?  You clean the
metal, paint on a flux, get it hot (no, not glowing!), and apply solder and wipe it
all over with a rag.  ENds up looking like pewter (if that's acceptable) and darkening
like it too.  However, it is less likely to flake off than paint, and can easily be
"touched up" with a new application if it gets scratched.  Use body solder for filling
big dings.

JK
From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Firepot on a forge (coal/gas/charcoal)
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:56:22 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL


 On a gas forge, how is the workpiece supported? With coal you just set it
on the bed, but with gas, you must have a rack or something, right? 

-- 
##########################################################################
#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons  #
#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee)
Subject: Re: Firepot on a forge (what is it for)
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:26:00 GMT

>definetely conwsider propane or natural gas- however, while I don't have
>any experience with a gas forge, from knowing how much acetylene I can
>use up in a few hours, I'd expect a gas forge to get expensive in
>operating costs compared to coal- Anyone out there want to comment
>on this?

I can run 8 hours on a 20 lb tank. It costs 10 dollars to fill the tank.
I havn't purchased coal in ages. So tell me how that compares to 8 hours
on coal.

Dale

Village Blacksmith

>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: anvil@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Controling Grain Growth
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:11:03 GMT

Greeting from Alabama,
I am finally got this news group in my server I hope I haven't missed much.
A neat way to reduce your grain growth after forging is to normalize. After
tool steel gets to critical temperature grain growth begans to increase thus
making the piece weaker. If dropped into quench the size of grain is locked
in. With an annealing medium you get a small reduction in grain size but not
much. Two ways grain size can be reduced:1) Mechanically by packing,light blows
at just under critical temp. This is very iffy if done by a hand hammer and
anvil.
2) Normalize: Take your whole piece up to critical temp (1450 degrees F.for
plain carbon steels) the best way to judge critical temp is to stick a magnet
to it. When it loses it's magnetic attraction your at critical temp. So with
your piece heated to critical, Turn off the blast  and set the piece on the
edge of the fire for a coal forge or turn off the gas on a gas forge and leave
it there until it cools to room temp.
When hardening  quench on a rising heat,don't let the piece go past critical
and you won't get any grain growth.

Happy Forging
John Sugg
Yellow Hammer Forge
Waverly,Alabama USA
From: vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu (victor porguen)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Drill Press Arbor
Date: 9 Jan 1993 03:59:00 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

ag900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Burris) writes:


>Is there any way to prevent a M.T. drill press arbor from slipping out
>of the spindle ?

>-- 
>ag900@cleveland.freenet.edu

Yes - by using an accurate Morse taper in both pieces!
Tapers come in two varieties: self-holding and self-releasing.
The difference is caused by the angle - at some point, a
self-holding taper becomes self-releasing if the angle is increased 
just a bit.

Morse tapers are supposed to be self-holding.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: markf@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:17:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

     I'd like to get into silver soldering in a bigger way, so I'm looking to
replace the little bottle torch I've been using.  In a back section of Kozo
Hiraoka's "Building the Shay" is a picture of the torch he uses.  It has a
range of tip sizes and uses a standard 20lb LP tank for fuel.  I'd like
something that can put out a fair amount of heat, since I'll be building
boilers for two 1/2" scale locos in the near future.  Any suggestions as to
torch brand or supplier?

Thanks
From: gcardwel@okazaki.acs.uci.edu (Guy Cardwell)
Subject: Re: Welding aluminmum bellhousing
Summary: get it to a welding shop.....
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Jan 93 08:08:48 GMT

In article <145292@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes:
>In article <103874@netnews.upenn.edu>, noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu (Alexander Noordergraaf) writes:
>> 
>> Can I successfully weld aluminum with arc or
>> gas? What type or rod/filler should I use? The area that should be
>> filled is less than an inch square.
>> 
>> 	Any and all advice appreciated, Alex (noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu)
>> 
>> 
>It's actually a tad more complicated that two other posters have indicated
>so far.  It's a bell housing, so it's oily.  Even TIG welding will require
>that you have the area to be welded cleaned and chemically etched to
>get a good surface.  My advice: it'll cost you about $30 bucks to have
>a reputable welding shop fill in the hole.  For a small job it isn't worth
>the 3 or 4 bell housings you'd go through learning how to do it.

The advice is sound.  But to fill you in further, it is still more
complicated.  Although the cleaning isnt hard...  acetone works fine,
and the chemical etch isn't always necessary.

However:

	1) there is no guarantee that it is a weldable alloy of aluminum:
           many are, many aren't weldable by TIG, gas or other.
           6061 is, 2024 isnt, and neither is 7075 (it is, but is left
	   brittle.)

        2) it is probably cast aluminum, in two possibilities:
		a) sand cast: which means that the porosity may be a problem,
                   and it may require a bake in a vacuum to remove impurities.

		b) die cast: (unlikely) which means that it probably contains
                   zinc in the alloy, which makes for difficult and usually
		   bad welds.  Also very bad to breathe.

	3) if the damage is structural, and the weld is sucessful, an
           anneal is necessary to restore the original heat treating.

Don't let all of this scare you.  If it were mine, I'd clean the area
and fire up the welder and try it.  You can generally tell right away
if an alloy is weldable.

Also, a square inch is a lot of area to fill. 

Learning to TIG weld steel is easy.  Aluminum is rather challenging.  

Scenario:  heat, heat, heat, heat, blob.

I have tried gas welding aluminum.  It is damn near impossible. (no
flames, please: net or gas)

Have a welding shop do it.

Guy Cardwell
Office of Academic Computing
Distributed Computing Support
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:52:09 GMT
Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Group
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net

All this has been argued before, and I and many others are not interested.
So for those who wish to discuss it: please use a key phrase like
"crafts name discussion" in the subject so I can use the killfile on that
thread. I think that would demonstrait cooperation with and consideration
for the r.c.m readers.

Please, in the future please try to indicate in the subject line 
non-technical discussions, I think I am not the only one who would appreciate
the warning.

Sincerely,

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
From: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM (John Kopf,D,6305)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Drill press and recommendations wanted
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:17:42 GMT
Reply-To: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

The big concern with tools from Asia (Taiwan, China, etc.) is quality control...they
are imported by companies that don't have factories there; in many cases, there are
NO big factories there, simply a lot of small companies.  In order to get the volume
needed, the importer often deals with a number of these shops, each providing a part
of the volume the importer needs.  So, the quality differs from shop to shop, and from
batch to batch;  one batch may be good and the next have problems.

However, the importers normally have a return/replace polocy for defective stuff.

I've bought several Taiwan machines, and the only problem I encountered was that on
one of them they had not cleaned all the sand off a casting before they'd painted it,
so it eventually dribbled sand (ABRASIVE) onto the working parts as the paint over the
sand decomposed.  I understand that this is fairly common...check all the castings for
painted-over lumps in inside corners.

John Kopf
From: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM (John Kopf,D,6305)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Techniques for bending tubing
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:45:19 GMT
Reply-To: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

One trick I've used on occasion is to pack the tube with fine sand to support the
walls, and then use a conduit bender.  If you have some spare tubing, try it and
see if it's acceptable.

This also works for small diameter tubing (such as 1/4" copper), but there I'd 
recommend using table salt instead of sand...it can be disolved out with water if you 
can't shake it loose.

A third possibility is to fill the tube with woods metal (this is a metal which melts
in boiling water), and then bend the resulting bar and finally melt the filling back
out.  However, DON'T use this method if you later plan to heat the metal (weld, hard-
solder, or braze)...there will be some residue left behind (the tubing will have been
"tinned"), and excessive heat will allow the residue with the metal and eat it up.

JK
From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger)
Subject: Re: Brass Casting 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:31:07 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

 One problem I have run into with plaster molds is that the water likes
to come back out of the plaster - esp. if not baked a while. Even the bound
water may come back off if the molten metal is very hot. This makes the mold
crack and/or ruins the surface as it spalls. I suggest trying a sand-type
mold over plaster, or at least naking the plaster in an oven for a while
at 400.

-- 
##########################################################################
#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons  #
#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: okunewck@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Phil OKunewick)
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Organization: Random, at best
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:13:24 GMT

markf@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Fleming) writes:
>     I'd like to get into silver soldering in a bigger way, so I'm looking to
>replace the little bottle torch I've been using.  In a back section of Kozo
>Hiraoka's "Building the Shay" is a picture of the torch he uses...

   Funky locomotive, the Shay.  A steam locomotive with a driveshaft.
Cass Senic Railway, Cass, West Virginia still runs a few as a tourist
attraction.  The logging/paper industry shut down there in 1962.

   As this is the metalworking newsgroup, they do most of their metalwork
on-site.  They don't normally have a tour of the shop, but I'll bet an
interested visitor could talk their way into one.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: Thread Tapping Gizzmos
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 18:32:52 GMT

In article <C0BDqI.DzC@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>I am in the market for a drill press tapping attachment for small
>screws up to 1/4 - 20.  The only thing I come up with is a $170
>gizzmo and an even more expensive one in the McMaster Carr catalog.
>Surly there is something less expensive out there.

If you're doing enough tapping that you can't do it by
hand, $170 doesn't sound like a lot of money to pay.
If it won't pay for itself quickly in productivity
and avoidance of tap breakage, you don't need it.

>I found that a cheapo screwdriver adapter works ok for small threats but
>I have wrecked three of them on 1/4 threads in aluminum.

I'd think you'd need better torque control in a tapper
than in a screw driving speed reducer.  The cheapo
screwdriver attachments just aren't designed for
production use.

--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@pangea.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger)
Subject: Re: Copper plating
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:41:10 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

 A couple of other notes - first, it's good to have an anode (donor) that
has a much larger area than the target piece. It's also good to have some
form of agitation/circulation for the plating bath; this helps distribute
the ion current more evenly, preventing the tendency to form whiskers and
accumulations of loose, particulate plating metal. You definitely want a 
lower voltage, below 6V generally. Do not try for more current by jacking
the voltage up. This will tend to help you plate hydrogen, which is not
going to help the surface finish or properties and may even hurt the
physical properties of the substrate. If you want to throw more plating
current, do it by increasing the anode area, decreasing the spacing from
the anode to the workpiece, multiple anodes spaced around the target, and
using the circulation of the bath to advantage. There is an ideal current
density for plating; above this current density the surface quality is
compromised; below the optimum, it just takes longer. I don't remember
the typical values exactly; somewhere in the tens of amps per square foot
generally as I (mis)remember. Try about 10A/ft2 plating current, an anode
with an exposed surface 2X-10X the surface area of the target and some sort 
of continuous stirring.
-- 
##########################################################################
#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons  #
#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account)
Subject: Re: Firepot on a forge (what is it for)
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 11:45:11 EST

I'm working on my second one now.. The first one worked okay,
but was a little small. (12x8x8 intyerior)

This one is a 16x20x36 1/8" steel duct, strenthened with 1/4"rod
at various points, with a 16" fan blower coming in one side of the bottom.
(very important the fan is at the side, not directly underneath so
hot stuff doesn't drip on it- first one was that way and the fan dissolved
in some bronze that dripped on it)

The top is 16gauge 1/2" grid expanded sheet. (16x20") There are several
'tops' that can be placed on top of it dependin n a ' ig it up
to do that day. I can just put the full-size 16x20 sides on, that hold
a full bed of charcoal, or one that tapers up to hold a ladle surronded
by beds of coals, or one that's long and narrow for heating steel rod,
or one that's surronded by firebrick on all sides and is baffled so
the exhaust doesn't lose much heat for maximum internal temperature.

Something like this can take a good few days to make, and like anything else,
PLAN it out beforehand. Know what you want to use your forge for, BEFORE
you start to build it. Will you be heating up lengths of rod, or ladles
of metal, or enamelling, or gongs? The shape you need for heating up 15x1"
rods is way different from the shape and heat you want for a 6" ladle.

How often will you be using it?  if it's not that often, you may be
able to get by with coal/charcoal. if you going to use it a lot,
definetely conwsider propane or natural gas- however, while I don't have
any experience with a gas forge, from knowing how much acetylene I can
use up in a few hours, I'd expect a gas forge to get expensive in
operating costs compared to coal- Anyone out there want to comment
on this?

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Maryland blacksmiths - locations
Date: 6 Jan 93 07:35:08 -0500


Location of blacksmith's in the Maryland area:  You can start with
contacting affiliates of ABANA (=Artist-Blacksmiths' Association of
North America), i.e.,

Blacksmith's Guild of Central Maryland
Mike Kaiser
14035 Harrisville Road
Mt. Airy, MD 21157

Blacksmith's Guild of the Potomac
Jan Kochansky
10807 Bornedale Road
Adelphi, MD 20783

Name and addresses are the presidents of those groups.  

Incidentally, the Summer 1992 issue of the Anvil's Ring (ABANA's 
journal) lists 39 organizations located in AL, AZ, CA, CO, FL, GA,
IL, 
IN, KS, KY, MD (2), MI, MN, MO, MS,  NC, NE, NH, NM, NY (2), OH(2), 
OR, PA (3), TN, TX (2), WA (2), WI, WV, West.Australia, and 
Canada (Ontario,Edmonton & Port Medway).  

ABANA's address is P.O.Box 1181, Nashville, IN 47448

Steve Bloom (IronFlower Forge)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: steveh@psg.com (Steve Hampson)
Subject: Re: MAPP Gas Brazing (Was Re: Fuels for brazing)
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 09:45:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.044530.20059@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.220208.18352@sequent.com> stuartf@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>> ...
>>I use a MAPP/air torch (uses disposable tanks like a propane torch)
>>and I judge it acceptable but marginal and inefficient for brazing.
>>Let me give you some data points:
>> ... [big pieces heat slowly - read the original for details]
>
>  I think you are being overly harsh.  MAPP gas does melt brazing
>rod to the freely flowing point - and propane will not do that at all.
>(I saw an ad for some special cyclone propane burner which was
>supposed to do that, bit *my* simple propane torch will only get
>brazing rod to the pasty stage.)  So the only problem is the size
>of the object - and the resulting heat loss - which determine the
>upper limit of what can be brazed.  When I've had to braze something
>big, I added the flame of my propane torch to the object in my
>firebrick "cave" and it really helped a lot.  However note that the
>size of the MAPP torch burner also determines how much heating it 
>does.

Propane *will* do it -- you just don't have a big enough torch.  My
propane and air forge will easily heat large pieces of steel to 2400F
(measured).

>  Does anyone know about these cyclone type heads which supposedly
>give higher tempertures?

I believe it is because the flame wraps around the object and so
transfers heat more effectively.  The difference is in BTUs
transfered, not temperature.  BTW, the Sievert torch line that I
refered to in a earlier post has cyclone tips.
-- 
Steve Hampson                       steveh@m2xenix.psg.com
17624 Schalit Way                   home (503) 636-6966
Lake Oswego, OR  97035              work (503) 222-9571
USA
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking