From: jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:08:02 GMT
	<1h1eooINNkv3@aludra.usc.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA




jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang) writes:
> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
> >If a lot of people using ship X can beat the best player of ship Y
> >that means something to me.  It makes me wonder what the people who
> >use ship Y could accomplish if them bothered to learn about ship X.
> >Your statement about a person's best dogfighting ship being the one
> >they know best is obviously true.  But if someone starts by learning
> >the AS, would you recomend they learn to use another ship for a
> >mission requiring dogfighting skills (like ogging someone who will
> >run)?  Yes.  Just because you do best in ship Y doesn't mean it's the
> >best ship to use, consider learning about ship X.  A fact you refuse
> >to ackowledge. 
> 
> >       joe
> >       Purple haze
> >       Lamb, Leg Of
> 
> WELL, IN that case, lemme put it in another way, LAGGED SC's can't 
> dogfight as well, as LAGGED AS's.  When I play in bronco, and am
> having a HARD time ogging a runner, I SWITCH into A BIGGER ship - 
> SOMETIMES AS's!!!  And, yes they are good at taking out people and living. 
Didn't say they weren't.  But if you have to chase a DD would you
rather have an AS or a SC?

> 
> If an SC tried to close into me while I was AS, i would det ALL, his torps, 
> and then fire my own, MY torps do MORE damage; MY torps go just as fast;
> We'll both eat torps, BUT HE will die, and not me.  
Quite correct.  AS beat up SC if the SC tries to fight.  The original 
argument focused on whether SC can beat up DD's.  

> SSSOOO, IF the SC is the best dogfighting ship in this netrek galaxy...
Try reading the articles associated with a thread next time.  No one
(clueful) is arguing a SC is the best dogfighting ship.  What I'm
arguing is that a SC can beat up a DD.  And just because you are best
at dogfighting in ship X doesn't mean X is the best ship for you (i.e.
just 'cause you fight better in a DD doesn't mean you shouldn't try a
SC, with practice you can probably do better).  

> Why can't it take out an AS by dogfighting it????
Because the AS can det all of the SC torps without wtemping (if the AS
is a good detter) and if the SC tries to close it gets eaten alive by
the AS.  

> just a thought in this endless thread.  
Try to understand it before ending it.  My point about the AS had
nothing to do with its ability relative to SC's.  The point was that
if this was the first ship you learned (and the one you fought best
in), it didn't imply this was the best ship for you to dogfight in.
Perhaps learning the CA would be better, etc. 

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of

> This is why I insist a) SCOUTS probably aren't best Dogfighters.
Agreed.

> the best Dogfighting ship is the ship you fight best in. 
No.  If you have never tried a ship, how do you know how you will do
with it?  I'm arguing that just because you fight best with a ship,
there's a good chance you never tried something else.  Just because
you fight best with DD's does not mean it's the best ship for you to
dogfight in.  Try learning how to fly a CA and see how you do.  Do you
dispute this point?

> When you play clued games, it often means you have to suffer lag...
> (ALL THE WAY TO CMU?) which means I hate flying SCs!
Guess what?  Most clue games aren't at CMU.  And most CMU INL players
play away games every know and then.  A few of us are even on at large
teams.  The only time lag severely effected ship choice was at
orthanc (australia).  Where planet taking consisted of taking an AS,
cloaking in my backfield, and hoping Spaceace! didn't ogg me.  Other
than that I fly SC's almost anywhere.  And no, I don't spend the
majority of my hours on CMU servers. 

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of