HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:02:47 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Oct14.125359.4049@infonode.ingr.com> bishopjl@infonode.ingr.com (John L Bishop) writes:
!In article <1992Oct13.215752.21388@adobe.com! mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker) writes:
!!In article <1992Oct13.155351.7265@nntpserver.chevron.com! hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:

!I'm not a Bonanza driver - but I do recall hearing that the gear and flap 
!switches are identical except for their position on the panel.  I heard 
!that it is a fairly common mistake to inadvertently select gear up
!on rollout when attempting to retract the "flaps".  This sounds like a similar 
!situation occurring on takeoff.

The gear and flap switches are identical on only the early models of
the Bonanza with the `piano key' switch panel. Later models have
a distinct wheel shaped handle way over to the right for the gear
and a flap shaped handle for the flaps about in the center
of the lower edge of the panel just above the throttle/mixture/prop
controls.

In the later models it is not a real problem.

Dave Rogers
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:33:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: romulus.MERLYN.92Oct7103308
	<kendall.81@sceng.ub.com>
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA

In article <kendall.81@sceng.ub.com> kendall@sceng.ub.com (Greg Kendall) writes:
   >As far as I know, YES. My father has -5.25 in both eyes (+/- 0.25) and he
   >definitely passed his medical check, they made no problem of it. He can NOT
								     ^^^^^^^^^^
   >become a commercial pilot, but that wasn't really his intention anyway. :-)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   WRONG!  I wear -14.00 and -15.00 diopter lenses, I have a Commercial 
   certificate and a 2nd class medical.

Really!??!

I have -8 in both eyes, and stopped my flying training when I thought
I wouldn't pass the second class (the vision is my only exception).

I'm definitely looking into this again.  Especially since I may be
hopping around in Alaska in the near future.

Randal L. Schwartz, PP-ASEL-IA 270+ hours and maybe soon a CP! :-)
--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@reed.edu (guest account) merlyn@ora.com (better for permanent record)
cute quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon -- home of the California Raisins!"
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Finding Aviation Info.
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:00:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: umbc3.1992Oct16.120029.15732
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County

You might want to save this ...

One of the most frequently-asked questions on the net is, "Where can I
find the address for xxxxx?"  The answer is to go to your local library
and consult a three-volume guide called the SERIALS DIRECTORY.

Not only does this show the mailing addresses and phone numbers for
all of the major aviation magazines of the world, it also lists contact
information for all of the societies (soaring, ultralights, balloons,
etc., etc.), and even how to order FARs and the AIM.  This is not just
for aviation, by the way, it covers virtually every imaginable topic
(big books with small print :)  )

I'm a bit ashamed that I had never before encountered this source of
information.  I ended up spending a few hours just browsing through
it.  Check it out!

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: braner@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Moshe Braner)
Subject: acronyms for new airspace alphabet
Summary: possible names for the bland letters
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:43:17 GMT

I never liked the new ABCDEFG airspace classifications, since they
do not convey any meaning and are thus hard to remember.  The
old names (such as "TCA") were not very good either since they
tended to say WHY the airspace type is there rather than WHAT
it means to the pilot.

The October issue of Sport Aviation has an article about this,
and here I quote (without permission) just the words chosen by
the author to name the things.  For more details, go read the
article, or any of the numerous articles published about this
in all the aviation periodicals these days...

	A	Above		(PCA, above 18,000 MSL)
	B	Beware		(TCA, look out for jets and the FAA)
	C	Control		(ARSA, gotta get permission)
	D	Destinations	(ATA/CZ, talk with tower)
	E	Everyone	(plain controlled airspace)
	F	Forget it	(no such thing)
	G	Gutsy		(for scud runners)

Enjoy!

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Braner                          braner@emily.emba.uvm.edu
47 McGee Road, Essex, VT 05452        (802) 879-0876                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:26:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.155351.7265@nntpserver.chevron.com> hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
>In article <2250@usna.NAVY.MIL> dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct13.064134.18531@peck.com> hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:

>>!As his big engine spools up, it makes enough noise that I can hear it
>>!above the FM radio from 1/2 of a mile away. He soon has enough speed to
>>!rotate and promptly raises the gear. The Beech bows to me as he rocks down
>>!on his nosegear and then quickly lifts the nose of the plane into the air.
>>!The gear comes back down, and the pilot shoots out of my line of vision as
>>!he passes the stand of trees blocking view of the runway.
>>
>>This is interesting. Are you suggesting here that the mains came up
>>while the nose gear remained on the runway?
>>
>
>Actually the reverse. He started the gear raising process while
>all three tires were still fully on the runway. The plane sort
>of nodded (I said bowed) as the nosegear raised itself inwards
>towards the belly.
>
>
	I've never flown a retractable, but my understanding is that they have
a switch, which is activated when there is weight on the gear, that disables 
gear-up.  If the pilot had inadvertently selected gear-up while on the ground 
(is this controlled with a switch or a lever?), would the gear come up when the
weight came off the mains during his take-off roll?  Just an idle speculation
which someone more knowledgeable than me might answer.

Regards,
tony
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:32:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.143206.21123@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>
>And there is a tale in Flying about a year or two ago in the 
>"I Learned About Flying From THAT" column.  Seems a Cessna retract
>owner either missed the gear selector in preflight or accidentally
>bumped it when getting in to the cabin.  Taxiing went fine, takeoff
>roll went fine.  But when he lifted the nose for takeoff, the gear
>started to retract.  Cessna main gears swing DOWN and back and he
>hadn't put enough sky between the fuselage and the ground to accomodate
>the mains in their swinging action.  The mains kind of stuck down there
>and the gear retracting mechanism kind of ate itself up.  Now he was
>in the unenviable position of being in the air with partially retracted
>main gear with a passenger and full tanks.
>

This incident actually made footage in "That's Incredible" although
it was a recreation.  My speculation is that the aircraft settled
slightly during the retraction process so the weight jammed the gear.
Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact failure other than "it did not work."

>He spent about 4 hours flying around the airport trying different things.
>Tower found a Cessna A&P expert to consult with the pilot over the
>radio.  He ended up taking the gear retraction system apart (it is
>under the floor more or less between the two front seats) and taking
>enough guts out to free up the mains.  Then his passenger, who was a
>fireman by trade and not particularly easy to unsettle, climbed part
>way out of the plane to force the gear down and into a locked position
>BY HAND!  What some people will do to save their underbelly and their
>prop!
>

The way they depicted it on "That's Amazing", errr... TI, was that he
used his foot to hook around the partially extended gear to extend it.
Oh yes, the plane was a Cardinal RG.

I agree, the idiocy some people will do to save a prop.  That's what
your insurance is for.

Kerry
From: itani@crd.ge.com (Al Itani)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: 3rd class medical
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:09:02 GMT
Reply-To: itani@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Corporate R&D

read FAR 67.17 (b) for 3rd class medical, it is 20/50 uncorrected required and not 20/200.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: greff@eecs.umich.edu (vincent greff)
Subject: math problem
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:11:45 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan
Distribution: rec.aviation.piloting

Hi everybody,
I'm a student pilote. Could anyone give me the mathematical
functions for:
density_altitude=f(outside_temperature,pressure_altitude)

Thanx in advance

Vincent
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: How many times to pass?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:56:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct8.235600.11751
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <adamsd.718555942@crash.cts.com>, by adamsd@crash.cts.com (Adams Douglas):
> In <1992Oct2.202836.1377@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
> 
>>Just checking, how many times does it usual take to pass the check ride?
>>Email me and if there is more respone, I will post the stat.  Or is
>>there an official stat? 
> 
> I know that the average number of _hours_ for new private pilots is 
> about 70 or so. But I believe most people pass on the first try (most ==
>> 50%). None of my students has failed the first time, but that may
> just reflect how cautious I am. Remember, CFI's are evaluated on how
> many times they say a student is competent to pass and then the student
> fails. Most of us (I hope) err on the side of caution. So don't be surprised
> if your instructor works with you longer than you think you need it before
> the check -- it'll make you a better pilot.

Since posting the original articles many many days ago, I have received about
15 replies with all "once".  Thanks.  Now I have to take it out to 100 hours 
if that is what it takes to pass the first time.  Thanks a lot.
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.piloting:92 rec.aviation.ifr:54
From: radack@ces.cwru.edu (Gerald Radack)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
Subject: Re: Partial panel ? (was: Re: Stay off the rudder!)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 16:22:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: dev.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Oct7.151851.23261@qiclab.scn.rain.com> al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman) writes:
>Well there are ways to keep control even with NO gyros.  I like the ADF
>method where one tunes the ADF to a distant AM station and by watching
>thew needle one can see, and correct, any turns quite quickly.  Unlike
>the compass it does not wobble, have N/S errors and overeact.  Too bad
>it also needs electrical power..
               ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
Is there some way to keep control using a handheld in case you lose both
vacuum and electric power? Do they make handheld ADF receivers? Could a
Loran or GPS receiver be used?
-- 
Gerry Radack
EEAP								(216)368-2808
Case Western Reserve University			    radack@alpha.ces.cwru.edu
Cleveland, OH 44106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Flight planning software for Amiga/UNIX/Macintosh/Sun/IBM?
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:14:38 GMT

The latest AOPA Pilot has a set of articles of aviation software, including
one article on software for the Mac. They do mention flight planning software.
I do not remember the name of the company.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: adamsd@crash.cts.com (Adams Douglas)
Subject: Re: How many times to pass? 
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:52:22 GMT

In <1992Oct2.202836.1377@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:

>Just checking, how many times does it usual take to pass the check ride?
>Email me and if there is more respone, I will post the stat.  Or is
>there an official stat? 

I know that the average number of _hours_ for new private pilots is 
about 70 or so. But I believe most people pass on the first try (most ==
> 50%). None of my students has failed the first time, but that may
just reflect how cautious I am. Remember, CFI's are evaluated on how
many times they say a student is competent to pass and then the student
fails. Most of us (I hope) err on the side of caution. So don't be surprised
if your instructor works with you longer than you think you need it before
the check -- it'll make you a better pilot.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Oct5.191930.13861@nntpserver.chevron.com>
	<1992Oct7.173953.3109@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:58:57 GMT

On 7 Oct 92 17:39:53 GMT, gandy@tellabs.com (John Gandy) said:

John> You, too! I was perplexed and more than a little miffed when I
John> was asked to remove my soft contacts simply to prove that I
John> indeed could not read the big "E" on the top of the eye chart
John> (thats the 20/250 line...I have 20/500 in both eyes).

They made me take off my glasses and read a _different_ chart.  I said
"E" and they said "Put the glasses back on" and I saw that it was an
"N".

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Subject: A very short aviation story
Organization: Chevron
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:34:16 GMT

As a ~40 hour student pilot, I don't have a lot of stories to tell; I just
live vicarously through all you rec.aviators out there.

Today was a typical Monday, quiet because of the flex work week, and lunch
was the usual 20 minutes of thumbing through the Greensheet while eating a
#15 white meat only please at the local Chinese restaurant.

Afterwards, I usually drive over to Andrau Airpark and watch the traffic
pattern while listening to a borrowed KX-99. This Monday was a slow day; a
couple of students in Cessnas and a Travel Air.

I was just about to leave when a pretty yellow and brown v-tail Beech
taxis down to the end of 16. He spends 10 full minutes doing his
pre-departure takeoff. Finally, he does a slow 360 on the apron (scanning
for traffic), announces his intentions and takes the active.

As his big engine spools up, it makes enough noise that I can hear it
above the FM radio from 1/2 of a mile away. He soon has enough speed to
rotate and promptly raises the gear. The Beech bows to me as he rocks down
on his nosegear and then quickly lifts the nose of the plane into the air.
The gear comes back down, and the pilot shoots out of my line of vision as
he passes the stand of trees blocking view of the runway.

I wait for the inevitable sound the Beech is going to make when the mains
collapse a second time, but it never comes. A couple of minutes go by, no
sight or sound from the plane. I had already picked up the handheld and
backed half-way out of my parking slot before I caught sight of slowly
climbing plane.

Now I'm debating as to whether I should give him a friendly call on the
unicom and ask him whether he knew his prop came within 6" of the
pavement? Did he want someone to call 911 and arrange for emergency
equipment? Had he had a heart attack and was someone else flying the
plane?

Before I can key to transmit he begins to call traffic and makes an
immediate hard turn into the downwind leg. Downwind to base, base to final
and he is flying the plane like a pro.  Smooth flare, nice landing and he
taxis off behind the FBO.

A few minutes later he and his wife leave in a Cadillac, guess they are
done flying for the day. Should have asked him if he wanted to sell before
he left. Bet I could have gotten a nice V tail Beech _real_ cheap. Might
have had to clean the seats, though.



-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 
Conserve water, California's deserts need more cotton farms.
Barbie says, Take quaaludes in gin and go to a disco right away!
 But Ken says, WOO-WOO!!  No credit at ``Mr. Liquor''!!
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Date: 13 Oct 1992 16:51:01 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> Actually the reverse. He started the gear raising process while
> all three tires were still fully on the runway. The plane sort
> of nodded (I said bowed) as the nosegear raised itself inwards
> towards the belly.

Do Bonanza's have squat switches?  Is it possible he did his takeoff
roll with the gear switch up?

-Ron
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.piloting:102 rec.aviation.ifr:59 rec.aviation.soaring:66
From: mssrh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Scott R. Hutinger)
Subject: FAR's where?
Keywords: FAR
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:27:22 GMT

Would anyone know where some of the more "least used" fars could be
located?  I noticed that they can be purchared from the feds at some
price...something like 43.00/set.  I did call AOPA last year and they
did send me a part 105 (parachute) set.  I really don't want to spend a
lot of money just to get FAR's that may have changed, and may not have.

I would like to read some other FAR parts, but wonder if someone
knows of a FULL set of FARS, not just the somewhat more common parts?

All of the books I have seen just cover what most people would need.  

thanks,

S-Hutinger@bgu.edu

p.s.  I don't know all the new aviation groups...so figured GENERAL
looked best???

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:12:15 GMT

From article <MERLYN.92Oct7103308@romulus.reed.edu>, by merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz):
>    WRONG!  I wear -14.00 and -15.00 diopter lenses, I have a Commercial 
>    certificate and a 2nd class medical.
> 
> Really!??!
> 
> I have -8 in both eyes, and stopped my flying training when I thought
> I wouldn't pass the second class (the vision is my only exception).
> 
> I'm definitely looking into this again.  Especially since I may be
> hopping around in Alaska in the near future.

I think you can get a 2nd class with an FAA waiver, but the airlines
would not hire you when they see your waiver.  That is what the doctor
told me when I got my 3rd class. 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: And another gear story
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:37:52 GMT

Some guys go flying in something like a C-182RG and find they have a
problem extending the gear.  They go through the checklist to no avail.
The contact the tower to find a mechanic to help them.

Mech:  Go into the aft compartment and open up the hydraulic reservoir.

       Someone climbs in back, and opens it up.

Pilot: It looks empty.

Mech:  Well, for the system to work, there has to be fluid in there.

Pilot: Are you saying that to successfully get this gear down is predicated
       on how much coffee we had this morning?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:14:46 GMT

In article <Bw2u3p.IBn@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:
>	I've never flown a retractable, but my understanding is that they have
>a switch, which is activated when there is weight on the gear, that disables 
>gear-up.  If the pilot had inadvertently selected gear-up while on the ground 
>(is this controlled with a switch or a lever?), would the gear come up when the
>weight came off the mains during his take-off roll?  Just an idle speculation
>which someone more knowledgeable than me might answer.
>

This piece of hardware is commonly known as the "squat" switch.  It is
used to enable the retraction mechanism.  For example, on the Seneca,
(from memory) the squat switch is on the left main.  As this main oleo
strut decompresses, the geometry is designed to apply pressure to a
micro switch to close the circuit.  On Cessnoids, with tubular mains,
the squat switch is placed in the nose gear.  Dunno about bananas.

Recall that these switches are additional safety and are not intended
to save the pilot from his own stupidity.  You want to look neat like
those Mooney drivers who get the gear up immediately.  As you taxi
into position and hold, you select gear up.  Cleared for takeoff, you
begin your roll, only to hit that small pothole on the runway which
is sufficient to cause the retraction mechanism to work... at 30 knots!

Lest we all think that the aircraft's weight will keep the gear down
anyways, let me recant the story of the T-210 owner who was washing
his airplane.  He wanted to clean the main gear wells so he started
the engine, and put the landing gear selector UP to open the gear
doors (this is one that had them).  While the weight of the plane
kept the mains down, the plane retracted the nose gear and settled
on its chin in the wash area.  The nose gear switch was either broken,
or the strut was insufficiently compressed for the safety mechanism
to work.

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: ses3n@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Sharon Elizabeth Silverman)
Subject: Re: A very short aviation story
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:23:55 GMT

On a somewhat related note, a T-6 pilot was showing off at Culpepper
Airport (in rural VA - dinky strip with lots of private pilots and
homebuilts). He flipped the gear switch to "up" before his acceleration 
down the runway - I guess he was aiming for that fighter pilot look.
He didn't realize that the motors on the gear are *strong* - they folded 
immediately, leaving a slightly crumpled T-6 and a very embarrassed pilot.
They had to bring a crane out to lift the plane up - then he dropped the gear.
Apparently there was very little damage (his ego excepted!). 
		hee hee hee...
					Sharon