From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: For Sim
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:25:10 GMT
Organization: NIST

|>Let me tell you a thing: throughout my life I've found that
|>so long as I follow "the rules" whatever they may be, I can
|>be accepted. But I do not follow the rules. One of my fears
|>is that somehow I'll break the rules and be cast out.
|>Rational or not, that is part of me. I need to lose that
|>fear. That means letting out everything that I fear might
|>break the rules. If and when I finally run out of things,
|>I'll lose that rationale (rationalization?) for at least
|>some of my fears. It is my hope that I'll be able to
|>progress once I've reached that point. I don't know what
|>I'll do then; I've never been there and I don't know enough
|>to project, but I think that losing the fears is essential
|>for whatever healing is possible to me.

If you fear being cast out for breaking rules, maybe the place you fear
being cast out of isn't for you in the first place.  You need to find 
a place where you would feel more comfortable?

|>So, while in a sense I'm testing you, what I'm testing you
|>FOR is that you will allow me to be me, good, bad, or
|>irrelevant.

Even with warts  :-)   (and no comments from the wart anti-defamation society)

All of us have our good, bad, and irrelevant side, and we all deserve to
be accepted as we are, not as others want us to be.  That is a problem
many of us have in that we feel we don't belong.  Take all those posts
where people apologize for posting, as if they didn't belong, didn't matter.
We all do.

|>I don't think the classification child/not
|>child has a damned thing to do with whether one should have
|>sex or have sex with. One should go further into it, asking
|>WHY and WHAT about children, asking what the factors that
|>are related to sex and sexuality, instead of just saying
|>"he's a child therefore...". 

That bore repeating.

|>I don't see it that way. I think the whole power/consent
|>thing is bogus. The way I see it, it doesn't make a
|>difference whether the child's sexual partner is another
|>child or not.

I have trouble believing that sex between say an adult, 21 yo, and
a child, 7 yo, can be right.  Between 7 and 13 is probably a different story.

|>For example, the child should
|>NEVER feel shame for any part of his or her body or for any
|>pleasures he may derive from it. This is a special case of a
|>general principle: that mental health comes depends on
|>awareness and acceptance of what one is.

The same applies to adults.

|>May I stand on that soapbox with you?

It's pretty small, let's see if I can make room...  Yeah, here, if you'll
fit ...right there.

|>Maybe. There are three things stopping me. One is a simple
|>matter of time: I don't have much to spare. Another is
|>motivation: it is too hard to keep myself moving. The third
|>is the feeling of "who am I?", the feeling one is supposed
|>to feel in response to "if you're so smart, why aren't you
|>rich?" Still, maybe I'll be able to do it someday.

1.  If you want it enough, you'll find the time.

2.  If you want it enough, you'll find the motivation.

3.  Intelligence does not equal wealth.  Maybe intelligent people realize
that wealth isn't everything and search for something more important.
You're important enough to write here, so you're important enough to
write elsewhere.

|>Oh, certainly! It is much easier for me to think than to
|>feel, and much easier for me to relate my thinking than my
|>feeling.

I'm glad you realize that.

|>Hm. I've heard often enough about this sublimating thing,
|>but I don't _think_ I do that, at least not in the sense of
|>using thinking to not feel. For me, I think it is more like
|>I not-feel and then I think because that is what I have
|>left. I could be wrong.

Or you could be right,  just keep thinking about it until you come to the
conclusion you feel is right.

|>I don't think I can at this stage. Right now, I think I need
|>still to keep a safe distance. You think I'm difficult over
|>the net, imagine my reactions to my fears when I have to
|>deal with both them and a real, live person! At any rate, I
|>believe that as I am, this is unresolvable.

It may be unresolvable now, but maybe not later.  I think a lot is
just the fear of changing, which makes you feel things are
unresolvable.  If you put your mind to it, you could work on this yourself.

|>For me, "safe place" means a person who will let me simply
|>BE and who can accept my letting go without either making me
|>feel the need to conform to their wishes or making me feel
|>that I must rein myself in to avoid causing them distress.
|>In some imaginary world, a professional would be what I
|>need, but in the real world, I was abused by professionals
|>and I just would not feel safe. Trying this alone is no
|>good; I just sink into self-pity.

You're going to have to find this somewhere with a real, live person.
What a way to start dealing with your trust issues.  Remember, once you
start on this, you can always say no, you can always stop.

|>Why, no. What this group can only be good for is to let me
|>prepare. The things I've done here I can't do anywhere else
|>but they are necessary things. If you will, I'm walking a
|>tightrope and my anonymity is my safety net. Perhaps
|>someday, I won't feel the need for the net and may even
|>discover that I'm not on a tightrope. But first, I get to
|>walk and I need that net.

Good luck getting to that point.  You've begun letting go a little, but 
you still are a Prisoner, mostly, IMHO, of yourself, and I hope you
get out of that soon.

|>|> Here I disagree somewhat, since you knew they would be affected, since
|>|> you were affected yourself in various ways by people abusing you.  Does
|>|> this make sense?
|> 
|>Unfortunately, no. There seems to be a logic gap there and I
|>can't figure how to fill it in. Would you try to say it
|>another way?

With the knowledge, assuming you had that knowlege at the time, of how
such behavior affects people in today's society, you should have known
that such behavior could be harmful.  Is that better?  I have the flu
right now, so I may be unclear.  That is also why this post is much
shorter than previous ones, and probably doesn't say as much.

|>I'm feeling wryly amused right now: recall that girlfriend
|>who was the first person I had sex with? She was 17 and I,
|>21. However, it was me being abused, not her.

I'm not sure what this means.  In my mind both of you were adults.


                                                                        ____
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \  /
     April 4, 1992  Marjorie Stoneman Douglas' 102nd birthday            \/
      I'll probably see her out dancing.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery