From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 17:34:29 EST

Obviously we have a very serious difference of opinion on this subject,
which turns most discussions of it into almost a religious war.  I've had
people reply to me in private agreeing with me who didn't want to incur the
wrath of those on the net who were rabidly anti-circumcision, this leads me
to wonder just how many other silent types are out there (and I'm not
blaming you for this, I just happen to be more pigheaded and have a higher
aggravation threshold), and if the antis really only consist of a small but
exceedingly vocal minority.

Someone mentioned that there is some very small, but non-zero, number of
circs that end up in mutilation or death, and that's their reason for not
doing it.  Fine.  I'm not forcing you to have one done on your kid.  But as
long as we're talking about very small non-zero numbers, there are also
people who have had problems because they *weren't* circumcised.  Seems
you've got a chance of erring either way there.  My personal preference is
to err on the side of circumcision.

So many of the mutilation arguments (and especially those from guys who
wonder what they might have been like otherwise...and it has been mostly
from guys) strike me as so many variations on the adolescent "mine is longer
than yours" theme which, admittedly, many guys never grow out of (I was
going to say "which many *men* never grow out of," but it occurred to me
that one sign of the maturity necessary to call oneself a man is to not be
so ^%$#@!  concerned with size).  Give me a break for Pete's sake (pun not
intended)!  If it works and all you're concerned about is that your parents
"cheated" you out of a bigger tool, then I don't want to waste my time
talking to you.

As I've said before, I'm glad I circumcised because it makes body
maintenance so much easier.  Sure, some of you have said that taking care of
an uncirucmcised penis isn't that difficult, but let's face it, I don't
remember to floss every morning and that's supposed to be easy too.  I gave
up on wearing contacts because as easy as they were to deal with, they were
more complicated than just reaching for a pair of glasses and being done
with it.  Sure, my parents did it without my consent.  There are a lot of
things they did without my consent, and did in good faith, not intending to
harm me...things that might have even hurt.  Vaccinations seem to come
immediately to mind.  I may have missed this, and I certainly don't intend
for this to become the subject of another flame war, but since someone
mentioned vanity as a reason for doing this, are there similar heated
opinions about pierced ears?  I'm also glad my parents had this done when I
was too young to remember the pain, and I certainly intend to do my kid the
same favor if it's a boy.

And speaking of pain, to the person who claimed that Judaism would stop
insisting on circumcision if it had to be done when you were 13, let me say
this; I'm not a Jew and I don't play one on TV, but I know enough to be able
to tell you that adult male converts are expected to get circumcised.
Whether or not that accounts for the small number of converts to Judaism, I
can't tell you.

Hang on a little longer, I'm almost done.

I mentioned before that my parents had me circumcised in good faith.  This
is to say that they *didn't* have it done as a way of decreasing my sex
drive, or of making it less likely that I'd masturbate (as a matter of fact,
I've found it quite easy to do that with everything already there waiting
for me).  In that sense, I would have a very hard time calling it a
mutilation, but hey, your emotions may vary.  Some of them obviously do from
mine.

Look, I'm certainly not telling you what to do with your kids.  If you don't
want to get your kids circumcised, then don't and don't let any of us who
intend to have our sons done bully you into it.  By the same token, try to
respect our decisions to have our sons circumcised.  From everything I've
read so far, it seems that the whole issue is pretty much a wash, but with a
few extemists on both sides who feel that they have to be right and just
can't deal with a situation where there is no clear good guy or bad guy.

As for me and my household, we've made our decision and will defend it, but
will not try to browbeat you into making the same one.  We trust that
whatever decision you've made has been done in good faith.

End of transmission.

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* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
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Newsgroups: misc.kids