HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bingcros@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Crosby)
Subject: Re: sprinters revisited (was Re: GURPS Total Rewrite)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:56:18 GMT

Sprinting involves acceleration and a terminal velocity.  Acceleration
is governed by the power-to-weight ratio (force to mass ratio for
physicists).  ST gives the power, body weight gives the weight.  But
the ST has to be used effectively to make most effecient use of that
power.  This is called technique, the skilled utilization of ST.  This
should be a DX-based skill since it requires coordination and skilled
use of the body.

After 40 meters of sprinting, almost all acceleration is done, and the
sprinter is at a kind of terminal velocity.  This velocity is
determined by effective power output.  Once again, higher ST means
more raw power, and better technique and form gets more of the raw
power into propelling the body forward.

So, I would propose basing sprinting speed off of a ST-to-weight ratio
and having a DX-based Sprinting skill that adds to that speed as the
current Running skill does.

There should be a chart that tells how often a character has to make a
fatigue loss check based on percent of maximum sprinting speed the
character is running.  Long distance endurance (the fatigue loss
check) should be based off of HT and weight, and make full use of
fatigue loss rules.

Rich
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: marvel vs. Champions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:02:01 GMT

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.173009.1544@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>>	Well - yes and no. Iron Man's armor is clearly an "Only in Hero ID" 
>>limitation, ...

>Here I think there _is_ a hole.  If the armor is Only In Hero ID, it's
>impossible for someone else to put on the armor and use it even once without
>ugly kludges like Usable By Others with the limitation "Not used by others very
>often, in fact no more often than people use someone else's focus".

Or you can buy Rhodes the powers as "Only in Hero ID " with the special 
effect "Only when Tony dies or lets him use it".

A point here: What happens in the comics or a novel are not great points
to be argued about in terms of a gaming system. Writers bend "rules" to
get a good story and thusly a lot of occurences from fiction do not
make good roleplaying examples. (See the Bendectine debate as an example.)

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
From: bell@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: GURPS Total Rewrite
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:39:59 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Aug13.171612.3729@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.162801.22852@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>|	I submit that [fixed costs for ST, regardless of campaign] is silly
>|and unfair, and that it would be better 
>|if a competant designer of the world-book or competant GM were to make an 
>|optional alteration in the costs for this. This sort of alteration should 
>|be suggested but not specified in the Basic Rules, and specified in some 
>|worldbooks (like it is now). 

>	It is neither silly nor unfair.  People will find uses for that ST,
>even if just to carry around obscene amounts of goodies.  Or they'll use it
>to intimidate people.

Dennis,  think about it: what is the purpose of GURPS points?  The idea is,
for the most part, to equalize character utility, so that all characters are
created reasonably equally.*

And what is that measure of utility?  Usefulness in the campaign.  Strength
is generally much more useful to someone in a medieval-style campaign than
it is to a person in a high-tech scenario.  Thus for the equality idea to
be at all meaningful, adjustments in point costs need to be made.

>	If ST were COMPLETELY useless, then no one would take it no matter how
>cheap it was.

Only if you're playing with mini-maxers.

>If someone's pitching for a discount, it means that whatever
>they're asking about is desirable to them in some way, so they should pay
>for it.

But it isn't desirability to them that's important;  it's desirability in
general in the game world that is.  Should they pay for it?  Sure,  but
based on that measure of utility, *not* some highly inaccurate universal
measure.

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu

* There are those who argue that points are representative of the difficulty
  of learning skills, and not a measure of utility.  However, how would
  characteristic modifiers and ads/disads fit in to that idea?  They don't.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 23:00:28 EDT
From: <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: GURPS rewrite concession

  Point taken: My name is Allen Shock. I'm a long-time playtester for SJG
 and am a user on the Illuminati BBS.
  I should add that the information posted on the GURPS Companion was from
 memory. It's still in discussion phase-no definite plans yet. But the info
 was from a discussion on Illuminati, so I think it's credible.
                                           Allen Shock
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: marvel
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 23:33:18 GMT

pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:

>Gosh mister, you must be REALLY old to have played the original D&D.

Not THAT old..

Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Paranoia (GM being Unfair)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:20:14 GMT

goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin) writes:

>Hum, this is a hard one to put down in words but I'll try.

>Background:  Our group consists of 7 people, and relations between one
>or two of them is not what I would call good. :)
>The person who is going to GM Amber does not like Jeff.  As a matter
>of fact he's tried to wage a campaign of having Jeff removed from
>the group, unsucessfully I might add.
>The problem, Amber gives the GM a lot of latitude to screw players,
>more so than dice games IMHO.
>My question is sort of vague, but how can you detect this, and keep this
>abuse under control?

If the GM doens't treat Jeff fairly when he GM's, I boot *him* out of your
gaming group. It's pretty easy to tell when one player is getting the shaft.
I'd actually advise against letting someone GM that doesn't get along with
one of the players in the first place. This is one surefire recipe for strife
in the game.

Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: VOTE NOW!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:47:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.095842.58201@cc.usu.edu> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>
>I guess Burdick would say the second best thing about this method would
>be it saves you the embarassment of having the public read your really
>lousy flames (like the one he sent me this morning).

Another breach of netiquette, bringing private squabbles onto the net
and distributing them across the world.  I'm sure you'll be much
happier with the one I just sent.

>But further, I think it's wrong to assume that anyone who advises the net
>to exercise what they think is etiquette is right, and anyone who ignores 
>their admonishement (like Loren's) is wrong. 

True.

>Does it have any effect? Almost never. 

Well, at least not in this case.

>I think the practice of ``Netiquette'' (being polite, not flaming, 
>respecting the feelings and opinions of others) is okay, but it's too 
>often boring and unproductive, especially on discussion groups. Stirring
>someone up, stepping on toes, slaying sacred cows, etc., is sometimes
>the best way to prompt coherrant and meaningful conversation. Restrictions,
>even self-imposed ones, can be stifling.

Hmm.  Anger brings rational discussion?  An interesting concept, but I
think you ought to take a look at soc.history or some of the other groups
dedicated to flame wars.  A lot of wheel-spinning takes place, but
nothing ever gets done.
From: David_Braun@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (David Braun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Diceless vs Diced vs Fnord vs Jimmy Carter vs Superman
Date: 15 Aug 92 11:58:44 GMT
Organization: Commodore Computer Club / PaNorAmA


  Based on the endless thread of diced/diceless games that has been tying
up so much bandwidth in this area lately I was inspired to write a couple
of computer simulators in BASIC (verrrrrrrrrrry BASIC) which I think
encompasses the spirit of each.  Feel free to port these over to C, PASCAL,
ALGOL, COBOL, FORTRAN, APL or whatever language you prefer.

-----

10 REM David's Incredible Diced Game Simulator
20 INPUT "WHAT IS YOUR NEXT ACTION? ";NA$
30 DIEROLL = RND(1)
40 REM Let the dice decide everything
50 IF DIEROLL > .5 THEN PRINT "YOU SUCCEED."
60 IF DIEROLL < .5 THEN PRINT "YOU FAIL."
70 IF DIEROLL = .5 THEN PRINT "SOME KIND OF CRITICAL/FUMBLE HAPPENS."
80 GOTO 20

-----

10  REM David's Incredible Diceless Game Simulator
20  INPUT "WHAT IS YOUR NEXT ACTION? ";NA$
30  DESCRIPTION = LEN(A$)
40  IF DESCRIPTION > 1000 THEN GOTO 80
50  REM Punish player for lack of roleplaying
60  PRINT "YOU FAIL."
70  GOTO 20
80  REM Player is obviously trying to roleplay and should be rewarded
90  PRINT "YOU SUCCEED."
100 GOTO 20

-----

As you can see, each programme incorporates the spirit of its gaming genre.


    A word of warning to anyone who chooses to use these simulators:
    ===============================================================

  When I sent them out for beta testing the testers split into two groups,
each showing a personal preference for one or the other of the simulators.
They posted messages to my developers BBS stating their preference.

  These two groups began arguing over the merits of their particular
simulator, each claiming that the other was inherently flawed.  Although
these arguments started off at a fairly intellectual level they quickly
digressed to misquotations and name calling.  Pretty soon the debate began
to swamp the beta testers' mail area on my board and overwhelmed some of
the more important messages trickling in on some of my other programming
projects.

  Upon investigation I discovered that each side had given up generating
new arguments and had written recursive routines which would rearrange
their premises and post them automatically to my board.  It was a horror
show!  Nothing new was being added to the argument but it wouldn't die!
Each side claimed victory!  My BBS was always busy!

  Then I got my phone bill from all of this and the whole argument became
moot because I had to sell my house, car, wife and kids and me and my two
cats packed up the computer and took up a lonely hermitage out in the
hills.

  Anyway, with this warning in mind feel free to use either of the two
programmes above as fits your needs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  (ps: it's just an allegory - trust me.  I still have the car.)


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

   //    - I thought I was wrong once but I could be mistaken -
 \X/ db  - david_braun@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (UseNet)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: spzkny@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: Forkless or Senseless (Winging It)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: I know I shouldn't followup, but...
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: na
Date: 17 Aug 1992 08:45 EST  

In article <66094@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt7219a@prism.gatech.EDU
 (Christopher Michael Lawyer) writes...

>>  And if you haven't tried WINGS (the Buffalo version) then all your 
>>opinions are baseless and you're a snot.  So there!

>You better damn well believe that I haven't tried the Buffalo
>version of WINGS.  That would involve going to Buffalo.  I 
>happen to know that it gets cold up there and besides, I'd
>have to be in New York.  Blech!  I've had my fill of the local
>WINGS and quite frankly, I am not impressed.  And since I no
>longer can think of rational reasons to argue my point, I am 
>now giong to resort to cheap name calling.

Last time I was in YOUR state, we had severe heat warnings (it was 
something like 110 near Brunswick).  I wouldn't brag about the weather down 
there, either!  And you're right, your local WINGS suck donkey.  I sure as 
hell wasn't impressed, either.  I guess that, if you can't even be taught 
to fillet your catfish, then advanced foods like WINGS will forever be 
beyond you...
From: cscott+@CS.CMU.EDU (Curtis Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Joys of Dice
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:25:02 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <1992Aug12.161227.13016@newshost.unh.edu>, dqk412@kepler.unh.edu (David Q Kennard) writes:
|> 
|> Amber has a large component of player to player interaction, much of which
|> doesn't really need a GM. Thus, there's a fair amount for players to do
|> while one or more of the group "use" the GM for mediation/questions/interaction
|> with the rest of the world. There is a fair amount of "private conferences",
|> but I tend to see this in most any system my group plays.
 
This is a very important point. If Amber is structured to start pushing
the border of Live-Action Roleplaying (in which there is often quite a
bit of non-GMed interaction), then there may be some validity to the
"diced" people's point that it's becoming a different game. (Note that
that is NOT a value judgment one way or the other.)

|> Setting aside this roleplaying without GM stuff, however, it is also true that
|> the combat doesn't have to bog down. In fact, it can often go quite a bit
|> quicker than other games. Part of the "roleplaying description" on which
|> player success is based requires pacing. If the player seems to be dragging,
|> deliberate and cautious, then so's the character. One poster said Amber
|> combat should play at the pace of Paranoia or Toon. I agree. Keep moving.
|> Keep up the pace -- like real combat. If I'm GM in a diceless combat what
|> I'm really looking for is not the little tricks and knowledges that the 
|> player might not have; what I'm looking for is the impression that the player
|> feels *in the role and mindset* of combat, that she's acting *as her
|> character would in this situation*. Yeah, there's the potential problem
|> of the player acting as the player in that situation, but I try to account
|> for that as best I can and try to draw out the *character*.

So, in response to previous posts by others that a glib player will
succeed, if we use you as an example of an Amber GM, that's not an
accurate characterization. You're looking for signs of absorption into
the role, not signs of clever dialogue.

I'll give an example which concerns me. One of my players is an experienced
roleplayer, but speaks up very little in games. In conversation with him,
I find I often have a lot of trouble understanding his point of view.
Some of this is just manner: we have different interaction styles. Some is
(it seems to me) a lack of confidence. I've read his writing, and he's neither
dumb nor inarticulate (in the sense of being unable to find the right words).
His ideas are solid, and he's got some insights into roleplaying which I
find stimulating and obviously well-thought-out. He's just not good at
face-to-face conversation.

In a "diced" game, his character's abilities are not totally dependent
upon his ability to interact, because he can roll the dice and use his
character's skill. Assuming that everything I've said is true,
how would I judge his absorption in a diceless game?

Curtis
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: spzkny@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: Chili Wars
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: random silliness 
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 17 Aug 1992 08:35 EST  

In article <Bt2wGM.JJo@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
 ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes...

>>	I'll say it myself. _I_ can't tell the difference between
>>Cincinnati and Cleveland myself. Want to fight?
>>
>>The Wigs of Oz,
>>Aaron Wigley		Australia.

Aaron, that's like me saying that Sidney and Melbourne are pretty much the 
same.  There's a very strong rivalry betwixt Cincinnati (one of several 
dozen self proclaimed "Queen Cities") and Cleveland (yes, the "Mistake on 
the Lake"...hey, the Hudson river caught fire once, too).

>In Cincinnati, Riverfest is held on and around it's river (the Ohio) every 
>year, a festival involving fun, food, and _airborne_ fireworks.

Riverfest is NOTHING compared to the Flats on any given weekend!  If it 
weren't for the University of Cincinnati, they'd roll the sidewalks up at 
night in that town!

>In Cleveland, the only fireworks on its river (the Cuyahoga) happened when the
>scum on the river's surface caught on fire. 

Yeah, that happenned.  That was back when Cincinnati was just a pig 
slaughterhouse, wasn't it?

>Of course, some would claim that the famous river fire was merely a critical
>fumble on Cleveland's part, and that it is an example of how such randomness
>can cause amazingly stupid things to happen that unbalance the gam... er life.
>I would contend that it was merely symptomatic of the generally poor
>city-playing abilities of Cleveland.

It was probably started by a Buffalo WING and an errant fork throw...

                                                  James S. Zakany
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: marvel
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:22:39 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

> "...the best comic book game..."; you meant to say Champions, I beleive?
>   ( a joke, of course, but Champions is the best!)

Too bad the spin off comic books are so variable in quality.
-- 
Got Mole problems?
Call Avogardo 6.02 x 10^23
From: millerl@jeremiah.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Roleplaying vs. gaming, was Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:20:22 GMT
Organization: wcit

In article <0095F097.EF58F440@abby.chem.ucla.edu> doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.232813.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>>Ah, but a game, which is just a way of making another noun out of "to
>>play", doesn't always have to involve dice rolling. If you want to roll
>>dice you have craps, diplomacy, or parcheesi (your fave).
>
>Sorry, Loren, but there just aren't any dice in Diplomacy.

I know, I know. I was thinking of Risk, which is a dice lover's wet
dream, and mentally contrasting it to Diplomacy, which is to Risk what
Amber (no dice) is to Champions (many dice), and I mixed them up.

Ooops.

Anyway, I think Diplomacy is a far better game than Risk. Anybody want
to argue about that?
-- 
-- 
Loren Miller     <MILLERL@scrolls.wharton.upenn.edu>
All our patients here are suffering from severe over-acting. When
they're brought in they're all really over the top.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: marvel vs. Champions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:46:33 GMT

jlb@engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Lawrence Bailey) writes:


>1. GM-moderated character development is what makes Marvel.  _PLEASE_ don't
>   think I was talking rolling them up.  Modelling them after a concept is
>   much more effective.  I happen to know several ways to make powers in
>   Champions that are totally campaign-destroying (a contagious BODY-reducing
>   attack that doesn't go away unless, for example, they are exposed to the
>   vacuum of space.  This should wipe out a great majority of the world pop)
>   and the GM has little recourse against "But the points work!".  For Marvel,
>   the GM can attach weaknesses and limit powers without point constraints.
>   ("I'm going to limit your 9d6 RKA to 10 feet."  "I spent my Disads al-
>   ready")

Hmm. I think the GM has the recourse that the book suggests: "Sorry, you
can't have that power, it's too powerful. " GM approval of all character
powers is something the rules mention strongly and frequently. Any character
the GM feels will be abusive isn't permitted. Heck, it's even on their
checklist for character generation.

Axly
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Pomposity
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:33:28 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


Due to the wonderful level of pomposity in this group, I offer the
following rating system for your flaming convenience:

  Index                        Comments
 -------  ------------------------------------------------------
    1     Lacks any pomposity whatsoever; born to serve others;
          a natural brown-noser/boot-licker; a walking door mat.

    2     Quite a humble fellow; ideal for any audience; quite
          content with his lot; always follows the speed limit.

    3     Average; sensitive to flame messages; willing to
          listen to reason; ready to ask opinions of others.

    4     Pompous; will argue with any disagreement; sulks if
          proven incorrect; must outdo everybody; typical CS type.

    5     Pompous Ass; God's gift to the network; originated any
          idea of any value; never wrong; history began with birth.

    6     Complete and total git; born to suffer others; doomed
          to a life of total self-indulgence; napoleonic complex.

So, where do you fit in? :-)
-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx
From: rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless? Confession!
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:13:12 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <batemanc.713717474@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
> 7. GOODBYE
> ----------
> 
> That's it. You don't have to listen to me any more ( assuming you have
> just read this far ). One final request: nobody but me has mentioned
> Freeform. Am I the only one who's heard of it? If you know what I am
> talking about, please email me, so I can relax and prove that I may be Mad, but
> at least I'm not Confused.
> 
> All Hail Discordia!
> 
> Mad Chris.

You're not the only one to have heard of Freeforms, in fact I'm sure I've 
seen them mentioned in r.g.frp.* before now. Across the ditch from me in 
Australia their conventions are largely freeform, or at least that's the
impresion I get from the aus.games.roleplay crowd. Ah yes! There was a recent
post in r.g.f.archives crossposted from a.g.roleplay about Australian
Convention Gaming which was basically a run-down on Freeform Oz-style. I've
never run or played in one myself, but I'd like to try it, I'm just waiting
for the opportunity. (Unfortunately PBEM is out, no E-Mail.)

-- 
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh | 95 Fairfield Rd | I can't reply to E-Mail, but 
rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz  | Hamilton        | don't let that stop you sending.
+64 7 855 4406        | New Zealand     |