HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hyvarine@cs.Helsinki.FI (Ilkka Hyvarinen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Wanted: Finnish newspapers/birthday traditions
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:41:59 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: University of Helsinki, Finland

In <1992Sep15.084056.10955@hellgate.utah.edu> lchoqu%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette) writes:

>In article <1992Sep15.020212.22182@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
>u920487@postoffice.utas.edu.au (David Allingham) writes:
> >   In a few weeks it will be my girlfriend's birthday, and she is Finnish.
> > I would like to get a copy of the front page of any major Finnish newspapers
> > from her birthday, September 30 1972.[...]

>You want to give her a bunch of advertisements for her birthday?  :-)

>(Sorry, couldn't resist.  I could never figure out why the Helsingin sanomat
>would often put nothing but ads on that valuable front page.)

Precisely. Valuable is the word. A front page ad is *very* expensive. Of
course filling the front page with nothing but ads proves (IMO, at least) a
very bad taste, but they don't seem to care ...

Ilkka Hyvarinen
hyvarine@cs.Helsinki.FI
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Interest rates
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:58:13 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep9.115051.8353@rcvie.co.at>, se_haux@rcvie.co.at (Michael
Haux) wrote:
> I just received brief information from Sweden on much higher interest rates 
> from the swedish national bank. Could anyone provide me with more information, 
> analysis, etc. on this?

I also heared over the phone that Finland had done a devalvation,
a floating one (between 10-20% based on my quick estimates).

The numbers about the new interest rates in Sweden were quoted
as 75% by CNN, this sounds astronomical?

May we live in interesting times.

Kent


"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: Re: More about meat
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:46:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.094102.7910@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
>: In article <1992Sep3.204526.17667@tdb.uu.se>, t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman) writes:
>: |> 
>: |> Thanks for posting such clever and witty articles. Work on it and you may
>: |> end up being as admired as the famous Mutlu.
>: |> --
>: |> Sven Wallman, S:t Larsg. 5, 753 11 Uppsala, Sweden, +46 1812 9237
>: 
>: Who is Mutlu ?
>: 
>Mutlu is a famous

I'd rather say *in*famous...

>turkish or armenian fanatic who has recently taken an other
>name on the net, because so many has put him on a kill-file.

What's that name? Jarmo Ryyti? :-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Maastricht once more in Denmark?
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:58:07 GMT

This morning on the news I heard that Schlueter thought a new
vote on the Maastricht treaty might be possible in spring 1993.

Does anybody know if this is under serious consideration in the
Danish government/parliament?

Personally, I would wait until September 20 before considering
anything like that. If the French say no, then I guess the case
is closed anyway for this round. (News also mentioned a poll in
UK, according to which 75% are against a ratification).

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: karl@diku.dk (Karl-Christian Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Maastricht once more in Denmark?
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:03:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
>: 
>: >This morning on the news I heard that Schlueter thought a new
>: >vote on the Maastricht treaty might be possible in spring 1993.

This will probably be a "reduced" Maastricht Treaty. The politicians will
tell us that some important aspects of the treaty have been left out, while 
in fact some unimportant aspects have been left out. That is after all the 
modus operandi of the Schluetter/Ellemann cabinet. ;-) Favourite passtime of
(expecially right-wing) Danish politicans: Sabotaging democracy.
 
>: This seems like a strange kind of democracy: if the poeple gives
>: the politicians the wrong answer, then they try and try again until
>: it gives the right answer. 

Error in input. Please try again.
Yes or No?
		;-)

>: Are we living in the 16th century, with
>: "princes" and "kings" staking their countries for personal glory?

No. We are living in the 20th century where politicians sell out, bribe, get
bribed, cheat, steal, lie, etc. for personal gain (power or money).

>:   ______                     _~
>:  (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
>: __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_

>But you are much more ahead of other european states because you
>actually were at least given a change to vote. 
>Finland's administration is far behind danish one.

>Maastrich Treaty is not translated into finnish at all

One can argue whether it was translated into Danish. Looked more like Latin/
Greek to me! ;-) It boiled down to the following:

- The high conspiring (should be "contrahering" ;-) ) parties are forming the
United States of Europe.

- All legislative power goes to the council of ministers in Brussels.

- Only the commission may suggest new laws.

- The EC parliament, and the national parliaments, are reduced to empty shells.

- We claim to be willing to make decicions close to the people, but the fact
is: "FUCK THE PEOPLE".

It should be easy to translate this into Finnish. :-)

>Okei, Finland is not yet joining  Common Market and therefore
>it is too "early". 

>When it was asked from the Foreign Ministry why Maastrich Treaty is
>not translated into Finnish they answered that it is too difficult
>to translate!!!!

See above. ;-)

>The danes at least got the Treaty translated into danish and
>it was distributed to the danes for reading. This however led
>to a famous NO. So there is a fear, I suppose, if the Finns 
>should know the contents of the Treaty also here the resistance
>against Ec would rise. So the politicians do not like that people
> know too much. 

Of course. The more you know, the less power the politicians hold over you.

>Jarmo Ryyti


Karl
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
     .sig space for rent. Call karl@diku.dk
From: korkiako@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jorma Korkiakoski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Interest rates
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:13:02 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Sep10.124738.25130@odin.diku.dk> zaphod@diku.dk (Ole D. M. Lennert) writes:

>ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:

>The finns decided to pull the Finnmark (FM) out of the European
>Monetary System (EMS), as the strong Deutchmark gave the finnish
>economy a lot of problems. As a result, the exchange rate of the FM
>quickly went down with ca. 20% all over the world. 

	Today FM strengthened a bit, probably due to the president's
	speech. Now it is only 10% below its original value.


-- 
/--+
+ Jorma Korkiakoski       + "[l{ panttaa s{mpyl{{s!" + 
+ korkiako@cc.helsinki.fi + - TKM -                  +
From: minow@Apple.COM (Martin Minow)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Norwegian Alphabet
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:58:06 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


Regarding the Nordic a-ring character: in typography, the letter is
generally called "a-ring" -- See its definition in the Unicode and
ISO-8859 (Latin-1) alphabets.

As has been already noted, it (along with the letters called a-dieresis
and o-dieresis) is a proper vowel in the Scandinavian and Finnish languages.
I.e., the ring is not something pasted over an A to "change" it. Phonemicly,
it is pronounced like the "oa" in English "boat" and "coal" which, not
coincidentally, are written b<a-ring>t and k<a-ring>l in Swedish.

Historically, it evolved from middle-ages writing conventions, where the
'o' in the 'oa' pair became written above the 'a'.

Again, note that while a typographer may call a letter "a with ring" or
"o dieresis", the typographer is not making a linguistic claim: o-dieresis
functions as a pure vowel in the Nordic languages, as an "umlauting"
indicator in German, and as a syllable marker in a very few English words
such as "co<o-dieresis>perate."

Pedantically yours,


Martin Minow
minow@apple.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: John@boole.uucp (John Ahlstrom)
Subject: Norwegian Alphabet
Summary: Help with Norwegian Alphabet
Keywords: Norwegian Alphabet
Organization: Boole & Babbage, Inc.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:52:12 GMT



For about 15 years there has been a scavenger hunt* in Silicon Valley	
to find the word in Norwegian that is the name for the little circle
above the A in the character (some character, I don't know then
name of the character either) that starts the name of Angstrom.

The hunt was started when Prof Donald Knuth of Stanford could not 
find the name to include in a book he was writing about type setting.
It then became an adventure to find out if we could help him discover 
the name.  Calling the "Norwegian Academy" if such an analog of the 
French Academy exists, would be too easy.  We have to ask Norwegian
(or other Scandinavian) friends, look in Norwegian/English dictionaries,
...

The name of this little circle still eludes us and apparently many
others.  A wonderful Unix doc prep system FrameMaker has names
for tilde, circumflex, cedilla, dieresis, ... (maybe these are all
English names and these do not have names in their native languages
either) but calls the little circle Angstrom from the word most
familiar to English speakers that contains it.

At one time we thought we had it.  Someone said the name is "volle"
(which they also said means "little pancake").  We sought confirmation
and never found it.  Then we found a Danish woman who had immigrated to
the US and is a librarian in Sunnyvale CA.  She remembered the Danish
name for the little circle in Danish because it had just recently been
adopted in Danish--"balle" meaning "bale" (not ball) and speculated that
it had something to do with "tying together the two AAs that we used
to use."  "Balle" sounded close to "volle" but we did not count it as
confirmation.

More recently a woman of Norwegian ancestry that works with my wife asked
two visitors from Norway, a father and his sun.  They got into quite a
fight, one saying "prikke" the other "ringe".

After 15 years, can anyone help us?


P.S.  when we ask Swedish friends about the name in Norwegian (the real
goal of the hunt) and about the name in Swedish, they get very angry.
They assert that it has no name in Swedish; that it is not like a 
tilde in Spanish that is separate and has a name, but is like the 
the bottom bar you add to an F to make it an E, there is nothing you
add to an F to make an E; there are just two characters that look quite
similar, neither was derived from the other....

Does it have a name in Swedish? If so, what?
(Please do not get angry.  Ignorance is neither malice nor stupidity.)

Thank You

John Ahlstrom
Cupertino California

* A scavenger hunt is a game in which people are given things
to find and bring back to a party.  You are not allowed to 
go to a store to buy such things but have to go around to 
neighbors to see if you can borrow them or to the woods or 
seashore to see if you can find them .... hence the 
tabu against calling the Norwegian Academy.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Tyr,Odin,Thor,Frey?
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:25:13 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <79167@ut-emx.uucp> evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:
>I refer you to Havamal 27 of the *Poetic Edda* (Chisholm translation)

  Thank you for reaffirming my views on religion.

>Thorfinn Einarsson

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: rerickso@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ronald D. Erickson)
Subject: Archaic Swedish
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:06:55 GMT

Tack sa mycket if anyone can help me out.

Sincerely,

Ronald Erickson
From: raustein@athena.mit.edu (Yngve Koehler Raustein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Norwegian Alphabet
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:59:39 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep7.224842.24474@corax.udac.uu.se>, pem@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin) writes:
|> 
|> Why the Norwegian name? Both the letter and the person who named the unit
|> Angstrom are Swedish. The letter was adopted in Norwegian and Danish in
|> this century.

Sorry.  Swedes like to take credit for that letter, but I read in an 
encyclopedia that it originated in Germany (yes, really!), and got to Sweden 
via Denmark.  It was discarded in both German and Danish (where it 
eventually reappeared), but the Swedes adopted it into their own language.  
Later on, of course, Norway and Denmark also adopted it.

|> Anders Jonas Angstrom (Aangstroem/]ngstr|m), 1814-74, was a physicist at
|> Uppsala University in Sweden (where I am now, btw :-).
|> Btw, there is a Swedish Academy, modelled after the French. Don't know about
|> Norway.
|>

There is a ``Norsk Spraakraad''(or Spr}kr}d, with ring-a's.)  The head of this
``Language Council'', Finn Erik Vinje, has authored several books on how to
use the language, and has a weekly radio programme about Norwegian (which is
in fact very interesting.)

Yngve

-- 
Yngve K. Raustein		| ``We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh 
362 Memorial Drive		| Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed, 
Cambridge, MA 02139		| flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into a 
617-225-7343 			| fondue and garnished with lark's vomit.''
From: zaphod@diku.dk (Ole D. M. Lennert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Interest rates
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:47:38 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:

>In article <1992Sep9.115051.8353@rcvie.co.at>, se_haux@rcvie.co.at (Michael
>Haux) wrote:
>> I just received brief information from Sweden on much higher interest rates 
>> from the swedish national bank. Could anyone provide me with more information, 
>> analysis, etc. on this?

>I also heared over the phone that Finland had done a devalvation,
>a floating one (between 10-20% based on my quick estimates).

>The numbers about the new interest rates in Sweden were quoted
>as 75% by CNN, this sounds astronomical?

>May we live in interesting times.

>Kent

The finns decided to pull the Finnmark (FM) out of the European
Monetary System (EMS), as the strong Deutchmark gave the finnish
economy a lot of problems. As a result, the exchange rate of the FM
quickly went down with ca. 20% all over the world. 

The swedes then decided to raise the interest rates from 16 to 25%
overnight, so foreign investors wouldn't be interested in buying
swedish Kronor (SKr). But to be absolutely certain, the swedish
national bank then decided to raise the interest rate to 75%!

Ole Lennert
E-mail: zaphod@diku.dk

[Kents .sig deleted]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Interest rates (ala Eriksson)
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.211532.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, singer@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>Tomas Eriksson's very extensive analysis of the Finnish-Swedish Disease was
>very interesting. I shall nominate him for the Swede of the Year Award...

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! PLEEEEEEEASE NOT! Please, just shoot me instead! :-)

For those of you who are unaware of the implications and background of
this rather dubious honour: the TV2 news program "Rapport", which 
started this 'award' (I think they've stopped), had a phenomenal ability 
to choose a Swede of the Year, who would meet with total disaster in 
January or February or so the next year. One (Christer Eriksson) was
founder of a (temporarily) successful off-shore company (Consafe), which
went bankrupt the next year; one (Refat el-Sayed) had managed to make 
a bunch of stupid economists believe a low-tech penicilline manufacturer 
(Fermenta) was a high-tech biotechnology company - the next year it
turned out that his claim that he had a PhD in microbiology was not
true, and also that this was one of his smaller frauds - has has
recently come out of prison, but still is under legal prohibition to do
business; one (Hans Holmer) used to head the Swedish counter-intelligence
in the 1970's (which didn't catch a single Soviet spy during his years
as head of it...), nominated becuase he led the hunt for Olof Palme's
killer... Well, he didn't end up in prison, but he was fired, and he went
to court; another (Ebbe Carlsson) was also involved in the hunt for Olof 
Palme, has also been to court becuase of his involvment in it, and
recently died in AIDS.

Already several years ago, phrases like "you qualify as the Swede of the 
Year" were serious insults :-)

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: More about meat
Date: 8 Sep 92 06:38:06 GMT
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep5.073455.4985@tdb.uu.se>, t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman) writes:
|> 
|> But I didn't compare Jan Arne with Hasan B. Mutlu. I don't think they have
|> ANYTHING in common.
|> --
|> Sven Wallman, S:t Larsg. 5, 753 11 Uppsala, Sweden, +46 1812 9237
--


Thank you (I didn't think you did, either).


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Norwegian Alphabet (a-ring)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 19:00:28 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: riga.docs.uu.se

In article <GISLE.92Sep15130529@drott.ifi.uio.no>, gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
> This has not stopped ISO (for purely pragmatic reasons) to treat it as
> a diacritical mark, and in the ISO 6937/2 standard, table 12, it is
> denoted as "ring", and is listed along proper diacritics such as
> "caron", "breve" and "diaeresis".  As an pendantic aside, I would like
> to remind the scavenger hunters in Palo Alto that ISO documents in
> most cases are the correct source for this type of information, and if
> you are involved in internationalization issues you really need to be
> familiar with ISO standards and terminology.

If ISO (as you say) isn't the correct source for obtaining an
explanation of the linguistic term "diacritic", then how are the
Palo Alto scavenger hunters to find out when ISO documents indeed
_are_ the correct source for 'this type of information'?  Do the
ISO standards contain disclaimers stating the limitations and
intended scope of the terminology employed therein?  The ISO
character sets are appearantly only concerned with typography,
not history of writing, pronounciation, semantics, or other
generally linguistic issues.  When somebody asks what the little
ring in 'Angstrom' is called, then I think there is more to the
issue than a request for an ISO term.  Maybe the triviality of
the ISO answer actually led them to ask?

What is the correct word for the two dots above a 'y':  "Umlaut",
"diaeresis", or "trema"?  :-)

To remain on the subject, I'd like to know what the difference
is between an Angstrom sign, and a Swedish ring-A.  Do they
represent different typographic developments in Scandinavia vs.
the rest of the world?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic