HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Plateaus
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:06:33 GMT

In article <6366@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg) writes:
>In <63620050@> brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks) writes:
>>started my fast, I weighed 393 pounds.  Without any exercise, maintenance
>>calories were [F/X: muttering, puching of calculator keys.] 4716 per day.
>
>I'm sure you're speaking with a great deal more authority and knowledge
>than I am, but I have to wonder at that 4716 number.  With no exercise,
>a person who weighs 393 lbs can eat 4716 calories/day and not gain 
>weight?  Really?  How many Big Macs is that? :-> 

About 8 1/2 (560 calories per Big Mac).

>I don't doubt that a
>heavier person would need more calories to perform an equivalent
>amount of exercise as a person who weighed less.  My own set of 
>"operating assumptions" includes the idea that as I lose weight I'll
>become more active and thus be able to rely more on exercise and less
>on caloric deficits as the means by which I can lose weight.

Well, I wouldn't count on that idea unless you are confident about
your own abilities to change your lifestyle.  Doing one 3 mile walk
a day will only add about 400 calories to a 200lb man's caloric 
requirement (for a rough total of 2800).  Not a bad day's work, but
still less than a 300 lb man's 3600 maintenance calories.  Count your 
blessings that you're not a 135lb woman who only needs 1500 (if she 
is inactive).

This doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise!  But that if you are counting
on your exercise to offset caloric intake, you better be prepared to do
a lot of it.  I'm doing 9 miles of walking a day--that's roughly 900
calories, or about 1 1/2 Big Macs.  Three hours work for a Big Mac?
Just doesn't seem right somehow :-).

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: mcm@zycor.lgc.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: fastfood
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:35:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Landmark/Zycor  (Austin TX)
Originator: mcm@odessa.zycor.lgc.com

MacDonalds will provide you with a complete
'nutritional analysis' on request. They have
a large printout giving calories and grams
of fat for all their items. The other fas
food chains probably are required to have the
same info on hand for distribution.

Among the lower fat/cal items available at MacDonalds
are the chicken fajitas and the frozen yogurt cone.
These items are much lower in fat than most of the 
fast food items listed in Larry W's list.

Burger King where I live (Austin, Texas), also
serves Colombo frozen yogurt.

I think we should all make a habit of asking
for the nutritional breakdown from the fast
food resturants we frequent. Just about every
one of them offers a low fat item, and it is
important to look at the stats to see if the
item is really low fat.

You could have one chicken fajita and a yogurt
cone and be at approximately 2/3 the calories
as the McLean Deluxe. My favorite oxymoron
at MacD's is the "MacClean Deluxe with cheese."

Marianne Mahoney

mcm@zycor.lgc.com
From: mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: WW
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:43:20 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University


Just thought I'd post and update and look for some advice.  I'm
still going to Weigh Watchers and have lost 68.5 lbs since
January.  I'm 11.5 pounds from my goal.  The thing is this,
my loss has really slowed, which is OK since i plan to not
consider this a "diet" but a way of life.  The problem with
the slow loss is that its costing me $10 a week to get weighed
in (I haven't attended a meeting in months).  I'd really
like to become a life time member but I'm afraid it will
take me another 3 months to reach goal and then I need to
be there (I plan on going lower) for 6 more weeks to get
my lifetime membership.  This could cost me another $200.  I'm
wondering two things:  If I stop going, will it be harder
for me to stay on it?  And, is it worth getting your lifetime
membership?  Rationally, I feel like I should stop going
but I also feel superstitious about it.  Its not like I'm
getting any support (I usually go weigh in early and 
only see the receptionist)....  Any ideas?

Margot

--
"I think we're passing through here kind of fast,
  Did you think these tracks in the dust can last? "
                                         - David Crosby
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: Help My Husband is Mean
Organization: gte
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 23:15:50 GMT

In article <BuyDGq.IJw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, khare@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Kathy Hare - DCS) writes:
> Hello fellow dieters. I'm just so ticked off today I had to post and 
> ask your advice. 
[...]
>  Like I said he thinks they are funny. I have told him numerous times
> how much these comments hurt me but he just keeps doing it.  I have tried
> rationally talking, I've tried laughing along and ignoring it, but nothing
> seems to work. Today I was doing aerobics in the living room and he 
> started with the elephant noises and laughing. I have been really trying
> hard lately, going to fitness class at least twice a week and I've lost 
> 5 pounds and thought I was making some progress.  Well I guess I had 
> just had enough and I started yelling and swearing at him and then busrt into
> tears. Well he got all mad and acted like -I- did something wrong.
[...]

It *might* be that he feels secure with you being unattractive:
he doesn't have to worry about losing you or having you mess
around on him.  

He may feel that if you're slim and attractive that he'll have to
compete with other guys for your affections.

Then again, I may be all wrong.

You might try starting with, "I'm only doing it for you,"
and work your way towards, "What's-a-matter, you afraid
I'll get slim and cute and run off with some young stud?"

With the last one, you'll *know* if my guess is right ---
He'll *really* feel threatened.

BTW, what kind of shape is your hubby in?  

2nd alternative might be to start threatening to spend big bucks
on an expensive health club if he doesn't shut up -- that way
you can work out without the harassment.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: WHat about those lousy skinny people?
Date: 24 Sep 92 18:02:03 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Picking a time to lose weight is a good idea.  I started my fast
just as I finished my Master's degree classwork.  Trying to get
on a fast with all the distractions of classes, homework, and such
would have been murderous.  As it was, I had one final a day or
so after I started, but the final was a known quantity; it
was going to be tough no matter what my mental state of mind was.

Pete Brooks
From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman )
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Shoes
Keywords: Walking
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:49:10 GMT
Organization: Castle WetWare MouseCatcher

crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

] peggys@orca.wv.tek.com writes:
] >Starting Monday my daughter & I will be starting a regular walking routine.
] >We are going shopping this weekend to look at shoes and I would appreciate
] >your help and advice as to what I should be looking for.  

As someone else mentioned, I have found that running shoes,
with the wide "footprint", help me keep my foot stabilized.
I have weak ankles, but I don't want to wear hiking boots
all the time - the running shoe style helps.

] I have flat feet, and I've been walking a lot lately.  A couple of weeks
] ago, I developed pain in the ball of my left foot.  

Sounds VERY familiar!

I went to a couple of doctors - I could barely walk
at all.  I can't recall the name given to the problem,
but what the concensus was that it was a pinched nerve
in the metatarsal arch (I think that's the name).  I
can still feel the pain if I press on the area between
the second and third toes (counting from the little toe).

It was recommended that I wear shoes with more room at
the M. arch, and get some rigid orthotics.  I had to buy
new shoes because the big toe had gone through the seam
of the pair that worked best (you'll notice that now
several shoes have the leather come further down the
shoe to prevent that).

I determined that the most likely culprit for the problem
was that I had done quite a bit of bike riding, with 
fairly narrow shoes, but had not changed them when I got
off the bike.  So the feet were cramped.

Biggest problem is finding shoes with a wide front area
and a narrow heel.

Diana
From: murray@corner.wpb.fl.us (Murray Kahl)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Chris' Concoctions...
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:29:12 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

To: cgregory@sparc19.cs.uiuc.edu (Christine Gregory)

CG>The time, of course, depends on your microwave -- if the rice comes out a li
CG>'crunchy' then increase the covered-cooking time.

CG>I'm sure this could be made on the stovetop, too, but I tend to scorch thing
CG>that way.  :-)

Congratulations as I just tried it and it was excellent!
---
 * OLX 2.2 * Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.
                                                                                                                    
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: djk@saki.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Douglas Knights)
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:50:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.212135.3674@inmet.camb.inmet.com>, mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
|> >In article <4r4n4p.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
|> >>
|> >>Matthew says it is his understanding that when you diet without
|> >>exercising you lose more muscle than fat.
|> >>
|> >>I suggest, as a possibility, that when one is on a vegan regime and
|> >>not exercising beyond daily activity, one is really on a high
|> >>carbohydrate eating program, and that the body may not consume
|> >>muscle on such a regime.
|> 
|> It is probably true that people who exercise lose more fat than people
|> who don't (given similar food intakes).
|> 
|> People who are following reasonably-balanced diets are not losing more
|> muscle than fat.  Hardly.  People who are on 500 calories a day liquid 
|> diets are losing minimal lean muscle tissue.  This is why these diets 

I would debate this fact.  You were probably losing more lean muscle tissue
than you were lead to believe.  500 calories per day.  Do you know what that
is called?  STARVATION!  Now, before I get flamed, I realize that some people
have had success with these low-calorie liquid diets, but the sad truth is     
that most don't.  And certainly don't do it without a doctor's supervision!
I guess the tradeoff is losing the weight for health reasons or losing some
lean muscle mass.

|> are "safe" for extended periods--I was on mine for 22 weeks.  The body 
|> apparently requires only a small amount of "quality" protein (HMR's diet 
|> provides 50g of protein and 75g of carbs per day) to "spare" muscle tissue.

What about all of the other necessary nutrients?  I hope that there was
massive supplementation involved...

|> 
|> That being said, I think exercise during dieting is a great idea.
|> Regular exercise has all sorts of fitness benefits that make it an
|> ideal adjunct to any dieting program. 
|> 
|> Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
|> mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
|> ...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Motivation...
Date: 3 Oct 92 04:38:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: jsl@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

I stumbled the following in a book called _The Portable Life 101_ 
and for some reason it struck a chord...

		To change one's life;
		Start immediately,
		Do it flamboyantly.
		No exceptions.
			(William James)
-- 
John Lundberg  
jsl@unix.cis.pitt.edu 
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:11:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

Yeah, I have stock answers for #1,2,and 3:

How did you do it?  Fast (optional HMR discussion)
Willpower?  No (see above)
How do you keep it off?  "All it takes is a complete lifestyle change."

I believe I was fortunate in that HMR was my first formal weightloss
program.  I had immediately rejected stapling (I knew my mind that well),
but would have gone Optifast if HMR hadn't looked so good to me.

The only psycho-physiological side effect (beyond attitude changes) that
I noticed was about a couple of months into the fast.  My libido went
way up.  Hell, I was horny all the time.  :-)  Didn't last long; went
back to normal a couple months later.

I agree on VLCDs as dangerous, particularly without proper supervision,
medical attention, coaching, and the right attitude.  Without the latter,
they range anywhere from useless to worse.  The people who have had
the best success at keeping the weight off all seem to have had a good
attitude, and generally have found some way to balance their food/activity
calories.  *None* of us have the same strategy (my case being rather
unusual...), but we do have a strategy.  Those strategies are born during
the fast.

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: todd@hector.uucp (24102-todd)
Subject: Re: my husband is mean Update #2
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 12:52:39 GMT

> 
>To make a long and personal story short we worked things out. When I sat 
>back and thought about it I realized I have been very moody lately. We 
>found out the reason why too, I'm pregnant! Almost a month. It took 
>my husband a few days to get used to the idea, me too for that matter.
>But we are both very happy about it. (we planned to strart trying in Jan)
>So I guess there goes my hops of losing weight, but I will keep up my 
>excerise to make it easier after the baby is born. 
> 
>So everything is ok now and I have something new to worry about. 
>Thanks for all the help and support from everyone it's greatly appreciated.
> 
>Kathy
>

Kathy, congratulations!  Glad you worked things out as
well.  As far as being pregnant is concerned, check out
Weight Watchers.  They have an eating plan specifically
for pregnant women.  Good luck to you.  Carolyn Todd.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman )
Subject: Re: Need motivation
Organization: Castle WetWare MouseCatcher
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:03:51 GMT

I don't know if this will help, but it's the
mind-set *I* am using.  

I, too, have had a bad 2-3 years.  1989 was the
year that my housemates and I moved out of one
place and into another - and we lost the "family"
feel we'd had for 5 years. Add 5 lbs.  I determined 
to find another place to live, and found my mobile home,
but in October of 1990, I was hit by a car on my
bicycle, one month before my 20 year highschool
reunion.  Add another 5 lbs.  The day before 
Christmas, I fell off a short ladder, damaging a
foot.  Add another 5 lbs.

1991 I found my current guy early in the year,
and managed to balance the good feelings with the
stress of dealing with the insurance company over
the bike accident - then immediately after I got
my settlement, my dad was diagnosed with cancer.
He died in November - add another 15 lbs.  I have
been wobbling between 150-155 ever since.

Yes - it bothers me, but what I have decided is
that since I KNOW I put on weight when I'm stressed,
and I know WHY I'm stressed, I look at it the other
way around - when the weight starts to go, I'll
know I'm starting to regain a semblance of order.

Last night I was down to 146 (yahoo).  This despite
a really stressful couple of weeks, camping with my
mom, who's handicapped, in a place my dad and I 
spent a lot of time (we did as a family also), and
also that it was both his and my birtdate's last
weekend.  And I turned 40.  But I'm starting to 
FEEL more in control.

What I HAVE tried to do is instead of beating 
myself up when I eat too much or something that's
"bad" for me - I look for times when I can say
to myself that I do NOT want <whatever>, and 
congratulate myself that I am recognizing times
when I'm NOT needing the solace of food.

I know I'm not completely back yet - but if I
can get more times of "I'm doing okay now" and
less of "I don't care", I know I'll make it.

Diana
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:51:07 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep28.165025.3036@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> djk@saki.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Douglas Knights) writes:
>In article <1992Sep23.212135.3674@inmet.camb.inmet.com>, mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>|> People who are following reasonably-balanced diets are not losing more
>|> muscle than fat.  Hardly.  People who are on 500 calories a day liquid 
>|> diets are losing minimal lean muscle tissue.  This is why these diets 
>
>I would debate this fact.  You were probably losing more lean muscle tissue
>than you were lead to believe.  500 calories per day.  Do you know what that
>is called?  STARVATION!

You want to debate the term "minimal"?  What's your definition?  Mine is that
the amount of lean muscle tissue lost does not significantly affect body
functions and that the side effects (like slow metabolism and hair loss)
are temporary and can be reversed.  

If VLCDs are not for you, don't go on them.  However, for some other people,
they are a very humane way to diet.  But they are not "magic" and 
probably the biggest reason to avoid a VLCD is the pessimistic, but perhaps
realistic, thought that this is too much stress on the body for a "temporary"
weight loss (as most weight loss is).

In my opinion, the worst thing that can be said about VLCDs is that they
are a total waste of money if you are not prepared to change your lifestyle.
And, unfortunately, VLCDs are *no better* (they really aren't any worse)
than most other diet programs in terms of long-term success.  The big
swing (that usually happens real fast) just makes it look that much worse.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:47:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Plateaus
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

I didn't say that I wasn't gaining weight...  Actually, I've done some
retroactive calorie counting, and the 4716 figure looks pretty
close to correct.  Actually, at that time, I was walking circa 3
miles a day, so [F/X: more muttering, calculator keys clicking],
I was getting about 800 calories a day worth of activity, so
if my weight was holding steady, I would have been eating 5500
calories per day.  I didn't have a scale that handled my weight
at that time, so I have little idea of my weight history at
that time.

Experience on the fast and 15 months worth of experience on maintenance
with high to very high activity levels shows that the numbers work
out very well.  I have no reason to disbelieve that I was eating
that much.  For someone who could (and did) eas a medium pizza in
the course of an evening, 4700-5500 calories per day was an easy
feat.  For what it's worth, I currently eat 4000-4500 calories per
day, but I'm cutting back as my activity level is coming off the
summer peak.

Last time I looked, you could down 1500 calories with a Big Mac,
fries and a drink (can't remember if that would be a shake or
a coke).  My fast-food favorite was a bacon double-cheeseburger,
onion rings and a shake...  Amazing to think of the lifestyle
changes.

Pete ("What's bacon?") Brooks
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Plateaus
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:31:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep27.190633.15352@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>In article <6366@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg) writes:
>How many Big Macs is that? :-> 
>About 8 1/2 (560 calories per Big Mac).

For some reason this reminds me of one of Calvin Trillin's friends who
would, supposedly, stop off on the way to lunch for a chili dog.  Reading
Calvin Trillin is probably not a good idea for someone who's trying to
diet.  Lately, though, I've found that Mark Leyner is good for general
appetite reduction.  :-)  (Does anyone have any other suggestions 
in the line of fiction for someone trying to lose weight?)

I guess I basically believe that the heavier you are the more energy
you use to stay alive but I still have the feeling that one of the
things that really leads to weight gain is a sedentary life style and
that the tendency to lead a sedentary life style becomes almost a
certainity in the upper weight ranges.  Such, unfortunately, was my
own experience.  However you calculate it, I'm certainly eating less
than my maintenance requirements and I certainly didn't mean to
claim that what Peter was saying was untrue.  I'm just a bit skeptical
about the math, that's all, but it doesn't really matter.

>Well, I wouldn't count on that idea unless you are confident about
>your own abilities to change your lifestyle.  Doing one 3 mile walk
>a day will only add about 400 calories to a 200lb man's caloric 
>requirement (for a rough total of 2800). 

I'm confident about my ability to change my lifestyle.  I tend to
look at the effects of exercise as only helping when one exercises
consistently over long periods of time--by this I mean exercising
every day for years.  My father's been walking the same 1 mile loop 
for over a decade; it's just something he does every day, like
brushing his teeth.  Any individual day means very little: day after
day can work miracles.  So I believe, anyway.  At age 69, he certainly
can walk rings around me and I'm sure that wouldn't be true if he
hadn't exercised.

I didn't mean that exercise could be used as a way to continue to
eat more than my maintenance requirements, only that I could use 
exercise rather than reducing calories far below my maintenance
requirements to promote weight loss.  

>I'm doing 9 miles of walking a day--that's roughly 900
>calories, or about 1 1/2 Big Macs.  Three hours work for a Big Mac?
>Just doesn't seem right somehow :-).

Well, I did 4.6 miles today and that's a new record for me (in the
"modern era" anyway :-)).  Perhaps I'll work up to 9 miles by next 
spring.  I used to think that driving 4.6 miles was a lot of effort
(that was why Domino's delivers, right?).  One step at a time.
-- 
John Lundberg  
jsl@unix.cis.pitt.edu 
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:23:15 GMT
Subject: Re: How do you walk that much?  (was Re: inspiration)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

My fasciititis (damn, there's a lot of "i's" in that word) seems to
have stablized with some help.  I'm using an anti-inflammatory (Feldene),
as well as orthotic arch supports.  I'm good for walking circa 4 miles
a day, though I'll do less walking on the weekends where I can spend more
time on the bike.

I have to waqtch my pace; if my heels start hurting, I slow down.  I also
have to be consistant on soaking my feet; if I skip a soak, I'll pay
for it the next day.  Gave up on the long commute/walk once a week, so
I'm getting my exercise primarily from the bike on weekdays.

Pete Brooks