From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich men and Heaven
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:41:13 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-100992121208@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
.In article <67878@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
.Pitts) wrote:
.> 
.> In article <ksand-080992193704@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
.> >Then I would suggest that instead of paraphrasing your statement
.> >that God can save rich men, let me know in what part of the scriptures
.> >Jesus clearly says this. I think this would solve the dilemma
.> >immediately, or what. Then you would also use the rules Jesus
.> >and Satan had during their mountain fight.
.> 
.>    Mat 19:25   When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and
.>       asked, "Who then can be saved?"
.>    Mat 19:26   Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible,
.>       but with God all things are possible."
.> 
.> UNPARAPHRASED - "WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, BUT WITH GOD ALL 
.>                  THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."
.
.Simple question, where does this statement say that rich men will be 
.saved by God as well????

That's the part of the whole - a rich man comes and doesn't sell his goods,
Jesus says it is hard for a rich man to be saved but he doesn't per se say 
it is easy for anyone else, the disciples express concern about all by 
saying -"who then can be saved" - and Jesus said with God all things are 
possible, but with man they are impossible.

.It says, with god all things are possible. It's a huge set, it comprises
.a lot of things, like for God it's possible to Sin, or that for God
.he could break covenants and cause another Flood. You see the dilemma
.maybe from this distorted perspective (I hope).
. 
.> To what is this referring?  UNPARAPHRASED - "WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?"
.>    Eph 2:8   For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this
.>       not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
.>    Eph 2:9   not by works, so that no one can boast.
.
.I have to post another posting about the social statements Jesus
.did. In general he wasn't that much interested about 'communistic
.ideals'. His main motto was that the Kingdom of God was near, and 

Agreed.

.everyone should just leave their jobs, join him and wait for the 
.great day. This is actually the main message when he wanted the rich
.man to sell everything he got and join Jesus.
.
.I just wanted to point out how richness in Jesus definition was
.really nothing, and by giving all the money people had and joining
.Jesus was the main concern he had. 

Jesus said that if one believed and was baptized, one would be saved,
but if one believes not, the he is not saved Mark 16:16 - WORKS DON'T SAVE,
but it the belief/trust.  Jesus said in John 3:36, that belief was
essential, for without it one would REMAIN condemned.  John 3:16 also
requires belief.

.As we know modern Christians still want to serve both Mammon and
.Jesus. Otherwise most churches would not collect golden materials.
.Same with the situation with Christianity in US, a nice marriage
.of capitalism and religion.

It is true that Mammon is a problem and Paul himself even said that
some have turned to it and have pierced themselves with pain.
Paul also tells the rich not to put their trust in their riches, but to
be ready to give freely.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

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