HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: How to answer salary questions (was Re: Advice...resume)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:19:16 GMT

weinss@hall104.its.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein) writes:

>If any employer asks how large a salary you want, obviously meaning
>30K or 40K or something like that and you don't want to name a specific
>number until you have an definite offer, is it ok to say "5 figures" as a
>joke.

There are reasons to not give a specific number.  Probably the most known
is that you want to not come across as someone they can lower the offer
to.  You want all you can get and still get the offer.

You should take into consideration other factors like health and retirement
benefits, vacation time available, working conditions, hours flexibility,
dress code, or whatever else makes things tick for you.  Consider also the
cost of living, housing, commuting costs, etc., for the area you would be
living in.  I usually look at the median home prices for the last 1 or 2
years and go from there.

But this is not easy to figure out.  Unfortunately you tend to not have
time to figure this out for all possible situations, including the one
you just interviewed (or are in the interview with).

Also, my personal salary requirements are not based on a starting salary,
but rather where I want to be in the future.  In computers this might be
1-2 years from now.  In journalism it might be 5-8 years.  I would rather
state a salary requirement in terms of what I would be making at that time
in the future.  I would not mind STARTING at a lower salary, but by no means
is that acceptable to keep my salary level lower than others just because
I started there.

I never give out my salary history.  It is irrelevant and personal.
Salary requirements will be available AFTER I see the situation and
can figure it out.  They will be in terms of 1-2 years down the road.
-- 
/************************************************************************\
| Phil Howard,  pdh@netcom.com,  KA9WGN    Spell protection?  "1(911)A1" |
| "It's not broken... it's just functionally challenged" --Phil and Pete |
\************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: How to answer salary questions (was Re: Advice...resume)
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:38:05 GMT

In <8fg2kya@rpi.edu> weinss@hall104.its.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein) writes:


>If any employer asks how large a salary you want, obviously meaning
>30K or 40K or something like that and you don't want to name a specific
>number until you have an definite offer, is it ok to say "5 figures" as a joke.

Furthermore, how do you know how high the potential employer is
willing to go, and how do you square years of student poverty with the
chance to grab some cash?

To wit: my wife works full time as a dental hygienist and make *ahem*
a good salary, one that I as a graduating journalism student will not
make for four or five years because our starting salaries are
pathetic.

So if the employer says, "What are your expectations?" so I sa,
$22,500, as is the norm in my profession, or $40,000, approximately
what my wife makes?

I mean, 22.5 is more money than I've ever made in my life, but is
barely half what we live on now.

I think I'm babbling now....

Michael
From: bcbrooks@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Reputable Head Hunter in MD/VA/DC Area?
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:59:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I'm a computer systems programmer and I'm relocating
to the MD/VA/DC area. I've been doing quite a bit
of job hunting through the Washington Post Want Ads,
federal job listings, and misc.jobs.offered but I
wondered whether it would be worthwhile to contact
a head hunter as well? I've been in the federal
government for 10 years and I'm finishing up my M.S.
in Computer Science in March 1993. In my job hunt so
far, I have discovered that there are very few jobs 
in the government where I can use all of the skills I've
acquired while working at the Naval Postgraduate
School and attending school there as well.  It appears
that it may be time to leave the nest. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: Eli.Mantel@launchpad.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Subject: Re: employment agency fees (was: FEM  / FEA  FINITE ELEMENT...)
Summary: How are employment agency fees usually paid?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 14:12:50 GMT

(The following is from a post in misc.jobs.offered):

In article <1992Dec18.231231.26735@fcom.cc.utah.edu> JKLLK@UTAH.EDU (RESEARCH EMPLOYMENT) writes:
>
>We are technical employment recruiters servicing engineering and scientific
>disciplines.  Most such agencies require a very large up-front fee to find
>you a job in your field (often $6k or more).  We operate on a contingency
>basis: if we find you a job you will agree to pay us 12% of your first
>year's salary (in 90 days).  Our long experience in the engineering
>employment field assures your satisfaction with the process.
>Please read the contract below.  If interested, download and print it.
>Fill in your name, address, date, and sign and return it.

I guess if JKLLK@UTAH.EDU says this is so, it must be so!

				Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@launchpad.unc.edu)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>>> How to deal with the situation?
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:48:18 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

> My friend got a job offer last week. He accepted and prepared to
> start work next Monday. The software department manager, who interviewed
> and offered the job, suddenly called him and said the company cann't
> hire anybody now. The reason is this company lost a big contract from
> a client. The engineers in other department will not have work to do.
> The company decided to fill the software dept. position internally.
> It's a mid-size consulting engineering firm.
> What can this friend do, ask compensation? But he is not a employee of
> the company yet. Even he started, the company still can find any
> reason let him go because of three month probation period.
> Any suggestion would be appreciated and forwarded.
> Thanx in advance.

Hopefully, your friend did not resign from his previous position.  If he 
did, then he learned a hard lesson about the down side of job hopping.  
That is, you are jumping into an unknown abyss and so you must minimize 
as many risks as possible.  He can try to go back to the old job; however, 
he will not be welcomed and the problems that provoked him to leave will 
not be resolved.  If he does want to go back to his old job, then do so 
as a business proposition and not out of sympathy. 

Your friend can talk to the new company; however, there is not much that he
can do. In this case, it may work to use sympathy or litigous intimidation. 
They may give him a few thousand dollars to shut him up and avoid any lawsuit. 
If he has a written job offer, there is an implied contract. 

Thank you. 

					Steve Simmons
From: toad@cellar.org (Tony Shepps)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Failing drug tests
Date: 14 Dec 92 06:19:13 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

weinss@hall104.its.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein) follows up:

>>> I don't know about drugs, but if you eat a poppy seed bagel before
>>> taking a piss test AND the lab used for the test is not careful,
>>> you will have a false positive for heroin.

>>Isn't this an urban legend? The so-called 'poppy' seed on buns, muffins,
>>etc. is not in any way related to the drug-producing poppy plant.

> Whether the plants are genetically related is irrelevant; the question 
> is that of the chemical properties of one particular molecular compound 
> in them.

Not even that, I hear!  What IS relevant is supposed to be the kind of
metabolite that your body produces after being exposed to the substances
in question. 

>         Analogously, breathlizers do not care whether you're drunk on 
> beer or wine.

This isn't really a close analogy.  A better analogy would be if
breathalyzers gave a high alcohol reading for you after you'd eaten large
quantities of garlic.  Drug tests don't actually prove anything, and anyone
who takes one without understanding their recourse for a positive result is
a fool.

--
Tony Shepps toad@cellar.org
Preferred address: toad%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
Public access and thoughtful conversation:  The Cellar BBS  +1 215 539 3043
From: trivedi@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Hemang Trivedi)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Civil Engineering Salary?
Keywords: Salary, Civil Engineering
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:37:02 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

What can my friend, a civil engineer, expect as a salary after an
MS from Uwisc Madison? He is currently being paid 25K. Is it ok?
He is stationed at Chicago.

Sincerely,
Hemang
From: dgeary@sierra.com (David Geary)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Resume or just cover letter?
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:01:29 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics,  Kirkland WA

In article <1992Dec2.083451.2298@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com writes:
>In article <1992Dec1.182700.21843@PA.dec.com>, klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:
>=)Definately do not send photos of yourself (except for modeling or
>=)acting jobs).  Photos only encourage stereotyping and racial
>=)discrimination, so many employers automatically pitch all resumes with
>=)photos attached.
>=)
>Actually, I have seen cases where minority status would be an advantage
>in job seeking.  My wife is Hispanic, and takes care to point it out on
>employment applications for this reason.  This probably works best when

  Actually, discrimination is not defined in terms of minorities.  Anyone
can be discriminated against, whether they are black, white, belong to a
minority, majority or whatever.  When I graduated as a mechanical engineer
in 1984, we had 2 blacks and a handful of women, along with hundreds of
white males.  The blacks and women were being innundated with *job offers*,
while most of us white males were just trying to get our first *plant trip*.


-- 
David Geary           	|   Seattle - America's most attractive city ... 
Sierra Geophysics	|	
dgeary@sierra.com	|   to the jetstream ;-(
From: loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Date: 18 Dec 1992 19:25:50 -0500
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
	<1gb2pjINNc75@FUNCTOR.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU> <242@cnmhnet.UUCP>
NNTP-Posting-Host: functor.systemsz.cs.yale.edu
In-reply-to: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP's message of 15 Dec 92 00:08:31 GMT

In article <242@cnmhnet.UUCP> keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:

   In article <1gb2pjINNc75@FUNCTOR.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU> loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore) writes:
   >   What do they want when an employer asks for your salary requirements?

   Well Sandra ...

Ummm, watch your attribution.  I was not the one who posed this question.

-Sandra
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Research Triangle Park, N.C. information
Keywords: RTP, NC
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:40:08 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <1992Dec14.203811.3681@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> philpot@kepler.arc.nasa.gov (Andrew Philpot) writes:
>In the recent thread about jobs in Research Triangle Park, N.C.,
>someone posted an address where one could write for information about
>all (most) the Park employers.  I think it was perhaps equivalent to a
>system.  Can someone forward this message to me, as a recently
>graduating friend is interested in relocating to that area?  Thanks.

Sure Andrew.  I was the one who posted it, and as you requested,
here it is again!  

	Research Triangle Park Foundation
	PO BOX 12255
	Research Triangle Park, NC  27709

Write to them with a SASE, and ask for their brochure that lists
all the names, addresses, and synopsises of the companies in the
Research Triangle Park.  It is free, at least for the first one.
Glad to help.
--Keith

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dlbradle@jhawk.b30.ingr.com (Doug Bradley)
Subject: Re: Where can I get cost-of-living data?
Reply-To: doug@jhawk.b30.ingr.com.
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:17:25 GMT

[ query about cost of living data ]

  You might check out "Places Rated Almanac". Your library should have a copy
in reference. 
  They explain their methodologies, and have *LOTS* of numbers :-) 

regards, 
doug
From: CNB6760@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Controversial organizations? (Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 12:36:13 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu

In article <1g8en4INN5dq@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>
    reidyj@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) writes:
 
>  Eagle Scouts is a good thing if you're trying to get a job in scouting,
>  but what does it have to do with yor ability to design?  Not much.
 
You are making the assumption that looking good is a one-way steet.
It isn't.  I, for one, wouldn't work for you simply because you are
so ignorant about what being an Eagle Scout means (dedication,
responsable, able to see a very tough job through to the end, etc.).
This of course, is just a single example.  It would apply equally
well to the examples you mentioned below (San Fran groups which boycott
anti-homosexual state based companies).  Would you really want to
work for that kind of company?  I wouldn't!
 
True, I might not get hired with the company that pays the most money,
but money isn't everything!
-----------------------
Chris Barnes
cnb6760@tamvm1.tamu.edu
(409) 846-3273 (home)
(409) 845-4437 (work)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dblack@seas.gwu.edu (David K. Black)
Subject: government jobs and the required forms
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: us
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:10:42 GMT


probably a FAQ, my apologies.

Notices for government jobs invariably demand that the applicant
submit a t-171 (or something like that)  which i gather is a
government form that duplicates a resume.  Where are these forms
available? 

thanks, 
david
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:53:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Do companies not acknowledge receipt of resumes anymore? It is certainly
seeming that way in my latest job search....
I can understand if I sent the company a resume cold, but I've only sent
out resumes from ads, and have recieved what I feel is a low percentage
of acknowledgements- less than 25% for resumes 3+ weeks mailed. Is that
a low percentage or am I just being unlucky here?
Opinions?
r.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Failing drug tests
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:28:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.201736.14105@sierra.com> dgeary@sierra.com (David Geary) writes:
>  In addition, such things as searches of your person/vehicle/home are also 
>becoming popular.

I can understand (but not condone) a company searching your person and/or
your car while on company premises.  But a company searching your *home* ?

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!
From: lauter@pogo.den.mmc.com (Karen Lauter)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:25:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta

In article <q#-rn9+@lynx.unm.edu>, blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
> 
> Do companies not acknowledge receipt of resumes anymore? It is certainly
> seeming that way in my latest job search....
> I can understand if I sent the company a resume cold, but I've only sent
> out resumes from ads, and have recieved what I feel is a low percentage
> of acknowledgements- less than 25% for resumes 3+ weeks mailed. Is that
> a low percentage or am I just being unlucky here?
> Opinions?
> r.
> 
> 
Actually, I think you were pretty lucky to receive that high of a percentage.
I received about 15% after responding to a specific job advertisement.  As a 
result and figuring that the others were history as far as results, I sent 
the following nasty-gram to many companies that had not responded to me.

     The early part of last month, I sent you a letter and copy of my resume.
     I have yet to receive any response to my job inquiry.  I would expect 
     that any company who wishes to employ alert and responsive people would 
     show the same consideration.

     I would like to think that my efforts are not frivolous.  I, therefore, 
     request the consideration of a response from you informing me that the 
     job opening has been cancelled, my skills do not meet your needs, I am 
     in consideration for the position, or that you indeed wish to tender an 
     offer of employment.

I received a 50% response to this follow-up letter.  Some companies were even
appreciative that I had brought their negligence to their attention.  
Hopefully, if we continue to bring this to employers' attention, they will
show some consideration - even to just mail a form postcard.
From: reidyj@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Controversial organizations? (Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
  Who needs to mention Mensa at MIT, all they have to do is show people 
  their Math SAT scores (710 or something like that.)
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:26:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1ggkcfINN5uq
Organization: College of Engineering, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: mundania.cs.orst.edu


  Though a friend of mine who was graduated from MIT said he went there
  because he was afraid he couldn't cut it at CalTech.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: billd@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Bill D'Camp)
Subject: Re: Self contracting consultants
Organization: Grumman Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:52:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.191347.1749@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> millere@egr.msu.edu (Eric Miller) writes:

>	   How practical is it for a group of advanced degreed students
>	   with some job experience (like myself) to start their own
>	   contract placement firm in order to manage their job
>	   placements?

I know some people who did just what you are asking about, they have
been extremely successful and have expanded quite a bit during the
time they have been in business.  However, given the current economy,
you may find things a bit of a rough go.  You will also have to
attract some people with "lots" of experience to establish yourselves,
because you are bound to run into situations where the contractor just
can't handle the job.  You should also be sure that you have people in
your group to cover all aspects of running your business, this was
what worked best for the people I'm talking about.

--
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
"All opinions expressed herein are my own, they do not represent the
opinions of my employer."

-- 
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
Keywords: college job entry cs sysadm
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:46:12 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <Bz1qz8.LpA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pmueller@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (The Highlander) writes:
>    I'll start off right away by asking my question.  Can someone like me
>get a job without a college degree, but with little corporate experience?
>    Here's my situation:  I'm 18, and In the last 8 years have self-taught
>myself computers and programming.  This includeds UNIX, C, C++, Pascal, 
>REXX, Objective-C, as well as many popular applications such as LOTUS
>1-2-3, dBase, Informix, Word, Mathematica, and others.  However, when

Hey Peter! A good question!  I'm not sure of your location, but your
resume looks impressive to me!  To be only 18, you've had some good 
jobs[at least on paper].  This is what is most important.  Put the
jobs you listed above on your resume.  Don't say part-time.  Since
you are working at the present, it will be a little easier for you
to find another job.  I know of several guys who are in the same situation
as you regarding their "practical education", who have no college degrees.
One guy I know is 27, and highly regarded in the computer industry.  
He is constantly getting job offers, even during this recession we
are in, and even here in CA, which is full of unemployed computer
people.  He doesn't have a college degree.  He just recently got
a job with a government agency here in CA,  tying that organization's
PC's, Unix workstations, and Apple Macintoshs' all together.  The 
fact is that he can do the job, and he was able to convey that in the
interview.  You're biggest liability is not your lack of a degree,
but your age.  People will just assume that you can't possibly know
what you know because of your age.  Dress "older" in interviews, 
and dress up your resume.  From what you say you've done in the
past, I don't foresee any problems for you.  Of course, your
location could be a factor as well.  
--Keith

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: billd@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Bill D'Camp)
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Organization: Grumman Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:13:09 GMT

There are times when the number of responses which a company receives
from an ad make it very difficult to acknowledge receipt of resumes.
A couple of years ago I received over 700 responses to an ad.  At the
time I was involved in a heavy travel schedule, and was unable to go
through the resumes immediately.  Since our local office (in San
Diego) doesn't have its own personnel office, but I needed to screen
all of the resumes, they just sat there awaiting my return.  The ad
was placed in August/September and I had an opportunity to evaluate
them over our Christmas shutdown.  This hardly makes for
responsiveness on our part, but no one else really understood the job
requirements.  This probably sounds like I'm making excuses for all of
those companies who fail to ack your resume, but when unemployment is
high the volume of mail in response to ads increases dramatically.  

About ten years ago I worked for a company in Virginia who decided to
place an ad for about 20 positions and hold an open house.  They
expected 2-300 people to show up.  We were overwhelmed by more than
1500 people, some of whom complained when I pushed my way to the door,
not knowing that I was an interviewer.  

While I realize that it is extremely for a company to fail to
acknowledge receipt of anyone's resume, I can also understand how it
happens.


--
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
"All opinions expressed herein are my own, they do not represent the
opinions of my employer."

-- 
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com