From: johnm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.s.maddaus)
Subject: Re: CUB Scout Camping
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:39:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.121132.5142@wkuvx1.bitnet>, waltoml@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
> johnm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.s.maddaus) writes:
>  
> Good morning, John. Your letter sounds like it comes from a really
> dedicated volunteer, and I am sorry if my posting offended you or
> others that are trying to do their best with their Scouts and
> families. 

Absolutely no offense taken!!  Your comments are all valid, but I guess
I'm a little less patient with BSA policy that I know is not working.  By
the way, we ovenighted at an Armory Museum the weekend before last and
the staff told us that they had Packs coming in from as far away as Ohio.
The museum is in Massachusetts.
> 
> Like you, I too am a volunteer and the father of three pre-Cubbing
> youth (one, will never become a Cub Scout because she's a girl). I too
> take my children with me, separately (for I have learned that I only
> have two eyes and concentrating one on my child and one on the
> activity leaves me with nothing to watch the others with. So we
> alternate. It is my oldest son's turn to go to the Jamboree with me
> this summer and my girl will go with me to the Spring Camporee here.
> The youngest will go to the Scout Show).  
> 
I also have three, a Bear, a Tiger (next year) and daughter.  I've been 
struggling with the notion of taking my younger son on activities but feel
he will get his chance next year.  My daughter's a little too young for 
anything but Mommy yet.

> However, although I believe that family is important, I also stand by
> the BSA's policy on Cub Scout camping. If all Cub Scouting families
> were like ours, I would say "let's go camping!". 
> 
We, as a pack, are blessed with 70 boys, about 8 Eagle fathers and
for the most part parents who are frequently away on business.  It seems
to be the nature of our town that most of the fathers are away nearly
every week and so look forward to doing more than the usual day trips.

> But most Cub Scout families are not like ours. They find it difficult
> to sign off the completed requirements in the books. They don't have
> the time (or don't make the time) to do some of the "family" projects
> that it calls for in the book. (As a former Den Leader, Den Leader
> Coach and WEBELOS Den Leader, I was many times placed in the role of
> "surrogate father" and my family was "surrogate family" for many boys
> whose families won't even play a game of Sorry (tm) together. This was
> one element that raised my own family's tensions and eventually led to
> the divorce of my former spouce and myself ("Why is that that every
> time some little snot-nosed kid come by, we have to stop and do
> Scouting stuff...and *you* encouraged it").  )
> 
I can't explain why, but there is enormous rivalry to complete requirements
in this pack and the parents have supported the kids marvelously.  We offer
a prize at the end of the year at each level for the most advancments,
arrow points, etc. but I don't think thats the whole story.  We do not award
badges to boys, but rather to parents to present to their boys.  Maybe we
are just lucky the last couple of years, but my own impression is that the
active program builds upon itself.  It has been very rewarding to see parent
involvement increase dramatically.  When I first joined the pack as Tiger
Organizer, we had a strong committee that tended to do everything themselves,
even though they preached parent involvement.  Our current committee actively
solicits parents for help and then lets them run with it.  We have one parent
in charge of pinewood derby, another in charge of Blue & Gold, etc.  I called
the woman I had asked to chair the Blue and Gold after two weeks to see if
she needed help and she had already organized a group and contacted 5 other
parents and divided up the tasks.  Reduces leader burn-out.  This is the
first year that we have gone on our annual summer family fishing overnight
at the local state park where I've awakened thinking I needed to start
breakfast for the troops and gone up to find 5 parents already cooking at
6 am without a leader present.  WOW!

As I said, it builds upon itself because our pack is now becoming the pack
of choice and are numbers keep going up.  This is the third year Council
has asked us to split the pack (and leadership) and there is a real
danger that we will exceed the 100 mark next year so we might have to think
about it.  BTW, I got my wife to volunteer to be pack treasurer so she has
less time to complain about me being away as much - she's there too.
       
> Most Cub Scouting families come to the monthly Pack meetings only to
> see their child get an award, and not as the monthly family
> get-together it is designed around.  Most Cub Scouting families don't
> even understand that Cub Scouting is family-oriented, dropping off
> their sons at someone else's and sometimes not picking them up until
> several hours after the meeting was over. 
> 
Again, we had 65% turnout at tonights pack meeting.  Not one boy was
dropped off.  From day one, we told parents that this is not a baby sitting
group and if the parents drop their child off, they will be called to pick
them up.   Our biggest problem is keeping siblings quiet at meetings.

> For those reasons and the others that I described earlier, I don't
> feel that the BSA should be allowing Cubs to do overnight camping
> under the Pack flag.  
>  
Respectfully disagree.  Its the essence of a successful program.
> 
> This was your Council's decision to do the Cub Camp program, and many
> other local Councils will be "jumping on the bandwagon" as their camps
> are being tagged for elimination. But I still assert that this will
> only make the Scouting camping experience (and particularily summer
> camp) even rougher for the Scouts. 
> 
> Where do they go to Summer camp?? Probably the same place where they
> had Cub Camp at. I agree with many that familiar surroundings make for
> better organization, but by the time that he becomes a Scout, he may
> have spent four summers at the Council's camp. 

Good old Camp Carpenter for Cub scouts.   Different Camps for Boy scouts.
> 
> Then you say "We would like to have everyone to attend summer camp"
> and the kid looks at you and says "Aw man, We've been there. Can't we
> do something else this summer?? (describtion follows of terrible
> places to camp, the food, the waterfront, etc. etc.)"
> 
Has never happened.  Between archery, fishing, BB guns, swimming, canoeing,
special events with the trained staff, Native American stories around
campfires, they come back year after year.  Money is the biggest reason
why some do not attend, alternate vacation conflicts is second.

> The Daniel Webster Council is indeed progressive on many fronts. 
> However, the national policy is there and if they want to interpret
> that policy as to mean that overnight camping is allowed as long as
> there are assurances that enough adult supervision is there, then whom
> am I to disagree with that??   Could it also be that your Council is
> classifying those events as "field trips" and not as "camping trips"
> also???  I think that is the way that many local Councils have
> by-passed the policy. "Field trips" overnight are permitted with local
> Council approval (the tour permit is good enough in most cases).
> 
Don't exactly know how Council rationalizes it but EVERY one of our leaders
are trained.  Again maybe we are just lucky.

__

John S. Maddaus                 |"They're worth their weight in gold!  Do you |
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