From: rjones@dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 20:22:52 GMT

In article <1bdj16INN1un@aludra.usc.edu>, jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang) writes:
>esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.) writes:
>
>>Yes, dogfighting is a good skill to have. The best players are usually
>>good dogfighters too. But it's not really a necessary skill. Everything
>>you mentioned above can be accomplished without being a good dogfighter.
>
>>1 - Obtaining kills (Offense)
>>	You can scum them from injured opponents, use 2+ team tactics
>>	and give away kills to team, scum kills by killing oggers
>>	ogging a friendly carrier or base, etc. Killing base oggers is 
>>	a very popular thing nowadays to get easy kills.
>
>If everyone was clued but couldn't dogfight.. where would they get kills?
>All oggers would be dead (no injured opponents). What carrier with no
>kills? Killing base oggers? That takes skill (good phasorlocking ability.
>Good streams of torps (elements of good dogfighting). 

They could get kills from being around the SB (which does not take
that much phaserlocking ability, just well placed sprays of torps),
from failed oggs, from SC bombers, from escorts who are more willing
to die than let you get at the taker...  Good streams of torps are
elements of good play, not good dogfighting.

>>2 - Mutualling an enemy
>>	Is not digfighting in my opinion. It's a simplified form of ogging.
>
>Hmm, i always thought of this as demented form of dogfighting, not ogging. 
>Because it usually accomplishes nothing (just for laughs, i find it amusing).
>This is because you usually end up killing someone with no kills, at the
>expense of your own life. 

It accomplishes several things.  I do it sometimes for space control,
to remove a possible escort from the way for the rest of my team even
before the carrier has a real escort, to clear the way for a planet
taker and escorts... 

Or just to help my Offense stats :)

>>3 - Defense against planet takers
>>	I know several people who don't dogfight very well but can protect
>>	planets against a taker who is a superior dogfighter. The key is
>>	to never actively engage the opponent. Yes, I mean runnerscumming
>>	but not for the sake of running away. It's a very predictable
>>	path orbiting a planet. A tactical placement of torps will
>>	discourage a would be taker. Using pressors (not tractors), to
>>	dislodge opponent. Once carrier cloaks, there is NO dogfighting
>>	involved anymore.
>
>NOT! A superior dogfighter would push the runnerscum so far back. The
>planet taker could take, without having to cloak!!! The guy who cloaks
>while trying to take planet under defenders are people who have no 
>insurance that they are that much better, and so tries to rely on 
>the uncertainty of his position. (giving up his firepower). 

Buh?  Double buh?  I'm a very mediocre dogfighter (until I run out of
fuel, then I do much better).  If I'm defending a planet, you are not
going to push me back, just because you a re a better dogfighter.  I
have too many options.  

And the reason all good takers cloak is not only to "rely on the
uncertainty of his position" (where did you pull that from?) but so
you can't tractor him off the planet...  

>As for orbiting planets, (yes, predictable), but only when you know
>when and where he first starts orbiting. Tricks such as go through 
>planet (overshoot on purpose), or pause, can really puzzle defenders. 
>This works great on LPS when no one wants to escort you in. 

Where do you play?  Must be pretty clueless if you can get in during
an LPS alone.  In most cases on clued servers you wouldn't even get
the option of overshooting or pausing.  You'd take a single torp hit
from one of the many defenders who are hunting for you, and then you
are phaserlocked and might as well give up.

>>4 - Escorting
>>	You mutual on enemy, blow up on them, phaser them, just cripple
>>	them, tractor, pressor, etc. no dogfighting here.
>
>What if there were more than one defender? oopps. 

two options:

a) only one escort?
b) often, the enemies are looking to just take out the carrier, not
the escorts.  (Not always, but often enough).  So you can kill one of
them and mutual the other.  I do this consistently.  In a SC.  Against
a CA and a BB.  While taking the home planet.  And ogging their SB.
and scumming third space and killing 8 iggys.  So there.

>What if the planet was close to the home planets? Big ooopps. 

Then you can cloak and fake being a carrier, wasting the enemy's fuel
and drawing their attention.  I prefer this for taking the home planet
or one near it.  

>What if he cloaks and tries to ogg the carrier!? Uh-oh. Can't find
>him unless you had skill.  

Your carrier is probably already cloaked.  You just fly along until
the ogger is forced to uncloak or runs out of fuel.  In either case,
you can counterogg before he has a chance to fully decloak.

>>I consider myself a mediocre dogfighter. When I run into a situation
>>against an inferior dogfighter, I will try to engage. Only the less
>>experienced players fall into this trap. The more experienced who
>>have an idea how good you are will employ one of the above.
>
>>Flt. Capt. Quovadis (bezier)
>
>Um, i do recall your name somewhere as one of the "better" dogfighters.
>That's not mediocre, if you play where you usually play. 

You can be a good dogfighter and still know that it's not that useful
in a game.  

>Jimmy
>
>P.S.
>Pace it, You use dogfighting to your advantage, and it is therefore
>essential to a) being a good player b) winning the game. And 
>engagement is a relative term.  

You can say the same thing about ogging, or planet taking, or...

>Theoretically, SB's can only take
>on one person at a time. But i've seen, really good sb's tractor
>one guy, phasor one guy to death, and torp another to death, while
>giving the tractored prey a kill to his teammate at same time, i.e.
>3 explosions in one sec, and the tractored guy died last. (Then, again,
>only on calvin :) )

I fail to see the connection.

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek