From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Christians?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 13:12:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

9209.28 e.v.


Scott Locklin quotes me and writes, I respond.


old Thyagi:

Please name 'some of the Buddhist saints', especially those who were killed
because they adhered to the doctines of Buddhism.  Thanks.


Scott:

gimme a day or 2


Response:

Also note that you will need to determine that they were intentionally
adopting a label which the orthodoxy DEFINED as heretical and associating
themselves with counter-cultural images.  I doubt you can do this with
any but a few strays in Eastern cultures.  It is a largely WESTERN
phenomenon.  Then again, I'd like to hear everything you can dig up.


old Thyagi:

There are different ways to 'break from dogma'.  'Martyrdom' has a rather
particular meaning which I do not always feel applies to those who
are killed BECAUSE of what they say/do.


Scott:

So, what are you talking about? What makes one a member in the exclusive 
martyrdom cult? Were the darwinists in Stalinist USSR martyrs? All they had to
do to save their necks was to adhere to the Lamarkian party line...


Response:

Unfortunately I am not a history-buff.  You'd have to give me a fairly
explicit description of these 'darwinists'.  Even then I'd have to see
more of their writings, know more about how they died, etc.

What are we talking about?  We are talking about those people who
use a sort of social judo upon the masses, those who hold a mirror
(or more accurately, a picture of their deep selves) and march it down
the throats of those in power.  This usually results in those in power
stripping them of this picture, rearing their fangs and BECOMING the
picture to the detriment of the martyr.  All the martyr did was to
live their life.  This happened not to fit in well with the popular
psyche.  We're not talking 'socio-paths' here, we're talking social
psychiatrists.


very Old Thyagi:

Let me put it another way.  The Great Martyrdom Cult is DYNAMIC.  It doesn't
maintain the same image/label/location.  It is INSIDIOUS.  It can never be
destroyed because it transcends conscious identification.  It is REBELLIOUS.
It takes on the face of the Great Enemy and plays out the energies that
have been repressed by the Orthodoxy.   


old Scott:

so its an intellectual abstraction on your part; note my disclaimer on these
a few sections up; is it useful?


old Thyagi:

I could not make that judgement for others.  Is it useful to YOU?  To me it
is.  That is enough.  I argue the case because I think the model may be
useful to others as well.  If you can show me that this is fruitless, I'm
inclined to desist.


Scott:

Well, to be useful to me you must first define it. You talk about it, what it 
does etc.; what is the damn thin
For a concept to be useful, EVEN FOR YOURSELF You must DEFINE IT! 


Response:

What do you think I'm doing in response to your questions?  Definition
is the first stage of the corruption of the GMC.  As I define it, so
it passes into another form.  I know that this may sound quite evasive,
but the GMC *IS* evasive.  It is the manifestation of the subconscious
mind of our society.  The more we attempt to understand it, the more
it becomes impossible for us to understand.  It is the equivalent of
the Buddhist 'kung'an/koan' which we can never quantify yet which has
an everylasting quality of presence.


old Thyagi:

No, I don't think you understand the Cult very well.  Nobody can get 'kicked 
out of the Cult' because the only way to escape the Cult is to DIE.  If this
is what you mean by being 'kicked out', then I agree.  Rebels have MANY
ways to resist oppression.  Martyrs have a particular path.


Scott:

Well, perhaps you should explain it to me....


Response:

I thought I was being very explicit.  Let me try once more.

The GMC is an occult network of those whose minds are triggered by society
into a direct confrontation with the orthodox for the purposes of internal
coherence.  It surfaces with different names, at different times and with
different 'philosophies', but always with the same goal in mind: the
resolution of internally inconsistent energies.  

An example:  Catholicism asserts that it is universal, yet it excludes
many by virtue of its extremity and its heirarchy.  It pins the badge
of 'Satanist' upon those whose lives it finds competes with social,
oppressive power, and it encourages persecution through its emotional
fanaticism.

The GMC surfaces here in the guise of 'Satanist'.  It holds up the
Shadow of Yahweh to the conscious mind of Catholicism and espouses only
the most extreme forms of individualism.  Catholicism must face its Shadow
to some extent and those who are most successful at confronting the
hypocrisy are killed (I think that the 'Inquisition' was largely a reaction
to a particular GMC success).  Note that there is more than one way to
'kill' a member of the GMC.  Here a few possibilities:

1) Out and out crucifiction (pun intended)

2) Co-opting the images/language/memory of the martyr

3) Adopting the names and appearances of having 'converted', yet simply
continuing the same oppression under a new name.


Even given this example, until you ask more specific questions I cannot
'define' GMC, nor if given some questions will I be able to respond in any
case.  As with occult 'Secrets', it is less a matter of the oaths to
which I've been sworn than the impossibility of putting much of it into
words.
  

old Thyagi:

Where'd you get the idea that I valued conformity?  Read more carefully.
It is easier not to follow the orthodox dogma and not to be a martyr.  It is
difficult to resist until death regardless of who is watching.


Scott:

So define the martyrdom cult, then we shall see where we are in disagreement


Response:

One can ONLY tell a member of the martyrdom cult by HOW the words/ideas
which they espouse, HOW the appearance which they present to society at
large, interacts with that same society.  


Thyagi
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I urge you to also follow the 'Buying Pentagrams: GMS' thread, where
Neijm is asking some very perceptive questions also.
Newsgroups: alt.satanism