HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: To Livian (was Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians)
From: jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:52:36 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <1992Dec21.170253.17576@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>I would like to point out that although you note differences between the
>PLO and Hamas, the recent actions of the Israeli government have had the
>effect of bringing these two groups together. According to the BBC, the
>PLO and Hamas have been formally meeting in the wake of the deportations
>and have been distributing statements which are jointly endorsed by the
>two groups. I would also like to point out that (again, according to the
>BBC) most of the deported Palestinians have stated that they wish to
>return to their homes and are supporting the refusal of the Lebanese
>government to accept them.
>
>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)

   All this thing is a big,huge,enormous show to the world,played by perfect
actors(the HAMAS guys and the arab world). PLO and the HAMAS won't go together
because the HAMAS is a organizations of fanatic,crazy,and blinded by muslim
fundementalism (So I do a little demagogy,so what? :) and the PLO,I hope,is not.
PLO' interest is to have a state,and the HAMAS's interest is,as it seems,to
kill and die. THE BIGGEST LOOSERS OF A POSSIBLE INTRERUPTION OF THE PEACE
NEGOCIATIONS ARE THE PALESTINIANS AND THE ARAB WORLD. The Israeli state have
2 choices to stop the Entifadah: 1. PEACE,and creation of a palestinian state
,which I support or 2.The transsfer.
If peace will be impossible,we must do the second option.
Livian
P.S.: Again: The opinions expressed are mine and only mine.
                                   ___
                                  (o o)
 ------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------------
  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @ Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @ Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Shamir and Wayne McGuire
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Distribution: talk
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:57:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.105851.16019@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>
>   I never heard Shamir or any other Likud politician making any
>racist statement. You claim is completely impossible. The word "they"

of course it is impossible, it is impossible for a Jew to be racist as was
put so eloquently by one of your colleages.

>should mean terrorists, not Arabs. Either you or UPI got some phrases

O.K he should have meant terrorists, after all the words "Arab" and
"terrorist" are interchangeable, they mean the same thing.

>of the Shamir's interview and moved them out of the context.
>
What Shamir actually said was " We know the terrorists from the closest of
contacts FOR MANY CENTURIES, ... etc."

>Dan


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24362 talk.politics.soviet:10077 soc.culture.greek:11954 soc.culture.europe:10897 soc.history:10446 soc.culture.soviet:11680 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10309
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: A pragmatic view of the deportation
Date: 26 Dec 92 20:00:43 GMT
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.

hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>As I said before, (from BBC reports) most of the Palestinian deportees
>are well-educated people. They are professionals in such areas as
>teaching, medicine, law, and engineering. These are examples of people
>who can help build a Palestinian country. Deporting them only
>exacerbates your false concern.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they used their professional schools to
help their own people rather than to kill Jews?
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: american opinion
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Distribution: talk
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:02:28 CST

In article <bill.725596124@bcserv>, bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill)) writes:
 
> Perhaps you should look at pictures from Iraq or Sarajevo, and then
> give me a definition of "ravaged".  Israel sat tight, and now
> expects to be paid very handsomely for it. (or did - there is a
> question of whether having the loan guarantees now dooms the
> peace process more than any other act).


	I get the message:

	The loan guarantees doom the peace process more than any
	other act.

	The settlements doom the peace process more than any other
	act.

	The deportations doom the peace process more than any other
	act.

	The refusal to declare withdrawal from all territories before
	the peace talks begin dooms the peace process more than any 
	other act.

	Israel's Nazi policies doom the peace process more than any
	other act.

	With so many "wolves" around, little wonder young shepherds
	are not being taken too seriously nowadays. 

 
> -- 
> William M. Eldridge			bill@bcserv.wustl.edu
> Biochemistry Department Box 8231	(314) 362-3436
> Washington Univ. School of Medicine	(314) 362-7183 (fax)
> 660 S. Euclid, St. Louis, MO 63110


Noam



Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24275 talk.politics.soviet:10041 soc.culture.greek:11926 soc.culture.europe:10863 soc.history:10417 soc.culture.soviet:11640 news.admin.policy:937
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "news.admin.policy" afraid of "ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle"?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:18:44 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec28.214920.16798@Cigna.COM> dave@Cigna.COM (Dave Good) writes:

>>But why not create a newsgroup called "soc.culture.x-soviet-armenia"? 

>Umm, maybe because it violates Usenet guidelines for newsgroup names?
>("x-soviet-armenia" > 14 characters)

Excuses, excuses, excuses. How about "xsovietarmenia"? How about 
"russianarmenia"? How about...

>>Are you afraid of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle? 

>Nah, he's probably more afraid of the Usenet Police.

Isn't "Usenet Police" = "ASALA/SDPA/ARF"?

>(Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

The treasures of "King Arromdian" are nothing in the face of this.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:36:59 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <bill.725744475@castor>, bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
>>>>Seriously, if you can be provoked to this extreme by an action which really
>>>>has little effect on your day-to-day life, can't you see the extreme
>>>>provocation which Israel has had to endure from Hamas?  Kidnappings,
>>>>murder, a philosophy of war against all Jews - those seem unbearable
>>>>to me.  How would Britain handle the IRA in such circumstances.
>>>
>>> How did Britain handle the zionist terrorists circa WWII?
>>> (it just seemed to be a closer analogy, or at least a little ironic).
>
>>You mean those Jewish bastard Christ killers ?   :-)
>
> What's the point of throwing in these cute barbs?

You're the one who wrote "zionist terrorists".


>
>>Let's see. They hung a few, deported a few hundred (thousand ??) to Eritrea
>>(sp) in Africa for a couple of years. Nothing special :-)
>

The BRITISH hung a few and the BRITISH deported a few hundred (thousand ??) to
Eritrea.
>>Better than Britain handles the IRA *freedom fighters* :-)
>
>>Better than democratic Amerika handled the Weathermen in the late 1960's.
>>                            ^
>
> Hanging a few and deporting a few hundred is better than the American
> treatment ofthe Weathermen?
> --

The Israelis NEVER "hung a few". The BRITISH "hung a few" !

I don't know how old you are and if you remember the Weathermen in the 1960's
but they were basically "open season" for being hunted down.


Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL



> {{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960

x                }}}}
> {{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
> {{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
> {{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
From: jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: LC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:52:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.012230.5740@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <4719@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>>
>Hamas and the PLO have been murdering each other for several years and
>now the PLO is actually standing IN SUPPORT of the Hamas terrorists
>who have been expelled and who were PLO murder targets just last week.
>It's not unreasonable to assume that they will again be PLO murder
>targets next week, too.  And you are blaming Israel for "perpetuating 
>division" among Arabs?  Can't you take blame for ANY of your own
>problems? 

Of course differences are expected to happen when one side
says I am willing to settle for minor controll over 20% of my land ,
and the other says I want my entire right.

jle
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24540 talk.politics.soviet:10157 soc.culture.greek:11995 soc.culture.europe:10956 soc.history:10488 soc.culture.soviet:11744
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "George William Herbert" is confused (what else is new, anyway?)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:11:31 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1hu34hINN30k@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:

>Mutlu is one of the early aliases apparently used, and due to
>the lateness of the hour when I posted this and lack
>of recent review of my mail records (fun NOT) I got confused
>for a second.

I really disagree with you. But maybe you know better.

 "The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination 
  of the Muslim population in the Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, 
  Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the 
  extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government 
  during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII."
                  (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)
                 

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24530 talk.politics.soviet:10147 soc.culture.greek:11984 soc.culture.europe:10945 soc.history:10478 soc.culture.soviet:11734 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1060 soc.culture.croatia:302
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:41:01 GMT

In article <tervio.9@katk.Helsinki.FI> tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI (TERVI| MARKO J) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>I've heard the same thing on a Finnish TV channel - It was the interview of
>Turkey's president (Ozal or something like that).  It was he who told about 
>his childhood and having to read the book in question, where Finland was a 
>model society (it sounded funny,really).  He said that it's a widespread 
>belief in Turkey that the Turks and the Finns are somehow related.  So if 
			.
			.
			.
I'm having a hard time understanding this thread, but
perhaps it will be useful to note that linguists
generally agree--though not without ongoing disputes--
that there is a Ural-Altaic language superfamily which
subsumes Fenno-Ugric and Turkic branches, among
others.  My impression is that the genetic connections
between modern Finnish and Turkish are less apparent
than those between Portuguese, say, and Russian.

There is no doubt "that the Turks and the Finns are
somehow related".  I'm not in a position to judge how
best to map the latest scientific scholarship on this
question onto the "widespread belief[s] in Turkey".
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:43:31 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

>So all 400 of these people killed the one man? So all the 1200 who were
>given administrative detention helped kill the one man? The question is
>justice. You have declared all 1600 of these people to be terrorists
>without trial and without knowledge of any evidence. The Israeli
>government has not even released the names of these people but YOU KNOW
>that they are all guilty. Do you have some kind of extrasensory
>perception? You know, your psychic powers could be put some good use, I
>suppose. :-)
>
>
>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)

   All 1600 people were members of HAMAS, which is responsible
for killing that man. Being member of a terroristic organisation
is a crime.

Dan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:55:13 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>In article <1992Dec27.164331.20245@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>>
>>   All 1600 people were members of HAMAS, which is responsible
>>for killing that man. Being member of a terroristic organisation
>>is a crime.

>Ah, so when do you recognize that Israel's forefathers have
>committed the biggest CRIME in history?

Precisely what was that crime, Anisa?
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: skaamjm@ucl.ac.uk (Matthew Moore)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 24 Dec 92 14:29:35 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:

>>In article <1gvbffINNo7s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>   A man is kidnapped.  A short time later, his body is found out
>>>on the side of some road, dumped like a bag of garbage.  The body

>First of all, it's highly unlikely any Israeli group would do anything
>like that.

>Second of all, if one did, it would be virtually universally condemned
>by other Israelis.

British soldiers were "captured and executed" by Zionist groups during the
British mandate. That similar events are occurring forty years later
during continued dispute over territory indicates that there are failures
of policy.

Incidently why does everyone refer to the action of the Israeli's as
'deportation', when in reality they are attempting to _exile_ men from
the land of their birth?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 01:17:12 GMT

In article <4721@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.222155.27594@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>
>>An article in the last New York Times Sunday Magazine mentions how
>>Arabs in Israel expect to be killed by members of their own families
>>if they dare voice an opinion of any form of acceptance of a Jewish
>>presence in Israel.  The article was somewhat chilling in that it
>>represented a somewhat Leftist point of view, not uncommon in
>>journalism on Israel today.  It is illuminating that the Israeli Left
>>is today joining the Right in opposing Arab rejectionism and violence.

>Ah, again with the New York Times.  Is that your Bible, Jake?  

No, it's called a "newspaper".

>Yes, it is illuminating how Israelis are still refusing to
>recognize every Palestinian's right to express their individual views
>politically and socially.  

Tell me, how do Palestineans "express their individual views
politically and socially"?  With machine guns, as they did last week,
or with grenades, as they did a few days ago?

Arafat is the only person to my knowledge who addressed the UN General 
Assembly with a machine gun, to his eternal shame.  He is the same one
who promised "10 bullets in the chest" if they disagree with him,
perfectly in accordance with the Palestinean revolutionary policies
mentioned in the NY Times article.  Is this your leader, Anisa?

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli quote of the year.
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:21:08 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <1992Dec28.141456.26785@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>Ilyess Bdira writes:
>>In article <1992Dec27.161716.19989@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>>
>>
>>   ISRAEL IS TOO LITTLE NOW TO GET SOME PART OF IT TO ENEMIES.
>>                       *****
>
>   Before 1977, Israel had Sinai. Now Sinai given to Egypt.
					     ^^^^^
I think 'returned' sounds more accurate!

Nabil
          .-------------------------------------------------------------.
         /  Nabil Ayoub                        ____/   __  /    ____/  /
        /  Engine Research Center             /       /   /    /      /
       /  Dept. of Mechanical Engineering    ___/    __  /    /      /
      /  University of Wisconsin-Madison    /       /   |    /      /
     /  Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu  _____/ __/   _|  _____/  /
    '-------------------------------------------------------------'
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 3 Jan 93 01:32:44 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <4791@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> Shaqeeqa writes:

[ANISA] When Britain stops occupying South Africa ... maybe.

Anisa, you can do better than that ...


Tsiel

-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinian deportees turned back by Lebanese
Date: 25 Dec 92 23:22:01 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <214@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>
>[ANISA] What would you suggest he do, Tsiel?  Sing praises of joy?
>
>Maybe he should consider suicide. :-) It will be less painful for everyone.
>What about spelling lessons if the above advice is not taken into account :-)

Common Tsiel ... this isn't funny at all!!  (Besides, committing suicide is
absolutely haram, and as good of a Muslim as Yahya is, that would be the last
thing he would consider - plus he would have to go over *my* dead body first:-).
And, on the spelling lessons, you should teach your own Israeli brothers first
(like Gideon) before attempting to correct other non-fluent English speakers
(or is this another attempt at enlightening us Arab heathens, oh Israeli
master?)  :'}

Anisa

	"Open your heart - showing the anger and pain
	 - so you heal."  [Shaking the Tree]
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24494 soc.rights.human:4705
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 1 Jan 93 11:53:59 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1hto1jINNrsl@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
(Mercenary Programmer) writes:

>In article <1992Dec27.165136.20053@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:

>
>>However, those terrorists will indeed get their day in court,
>>something Nissim Toledano wasn't given before they brutally murdered
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>him.  And, if it turns out that any of those temporarily deported are
>>not actually Hamas terrorists, they will get to return immediately
>>rather than in six months to two years.
>
>
>Keep saying it.
      ^^^^^
>I am sure if you say it loudly enough and often enough someone
>other than a fanatically dedicated pro-Israeli might believe
>you.         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Basalat Ali Raja.

We face now the problem of what a FANATISM" is :
 Is Alan right and FANATISM means: capturung a person and "brutally
            murdering him".

 Or Basalat Ali Raja  is right and FANATISM means objecting such a
murder.

We shell over come     Gideon Ehrlich    ERTS YISRAEL
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Occupation
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:32:24 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec27.163758.20159@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>
>   And Israel is occupying nothing.

Are you from the Golda Meir Brainwashing School?  Palestine was a
land without a people and a people without a land?

>   Judea, Samaria & Gaza were Israeli at least 3000 years.

Yes, some 3000 years AGO!

Anisa
	"The best kind - angry, rebellious, critical - a renegade ..."
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:46:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec31.214451.20569@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>The conditions were that all the Arabs who remained in Israel in 1948
>became Israeli citizens.

You mean the ones who didn't flee for their lives?  The hundreds of
thousands who were not forced out into neighboring countries and refugee
camps in Lebanon - to be later massacred? 
 
>Rough conditions, huh?

Definitely yes.  Given the original foundation of such enforced conditions.
Only you can make it appear so easy, Alan.
 
Anisa

"There you go, confusing the issues by reminding people of the history."
							Alan H. Stein