HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Nov12.193724.22309@tc.cornell.edu>
	<1992Nov12.221645.25826@ncar.ucar.edu>
	<1992Nov17.013848.1617@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:05:41 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov17.013848.1617@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb) writes:

   Those who trivialize the forces that bring gay kids to kill
   themselves,  cannot possibly be able to imagine being desp-
   ised by their own society, and unwanted by their  families,
   and  being (as  far as they  can tell) alone  in the  whole
   world.  They jest  at a pain  they have never felt, and are
   themselves worthy of nothing but contempt.

A very good message.

This is one area where some people will never 'get it'.  They are too
wrapped in themselves (I know -- I've been there).  But just remember:
It's their problem, not yours.  They'll do what they have to do
(trivialize the problems of others), and you'll do what you have to do
(try and help those with problems).

In the end, only one of you will have helped change anything in the
world...

--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Christmas Shopping
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:33:19 GMT
Organization: New York University


With Christmas coming, a glance through the Taylor Gifts Catalog 
revealed some possibilities.  For those members of the Cultural
Elite who receive only Barnes & Noble or L. L. Bean catalogs,
Taylor vies with Hanover House for *the* tackiest gifts, but this
is where the Moral Majority shops!

Well, the hot gifts of the year are slippers which come with sound 
effects:  there are train ones which chug as you walk ($24.98),  Santa
ones that "ho, ho, ho" ($29.88), beer can slippers (they don't make 
any noise, but they do look stupid at $29.98), barking slippers 
(Dalmatian pattern -- $29.98) and though  I couldn't find the 
"meowing" slippers I'm sure they're in there somewhere.

Motss relevance?  How about birthday bears with colored birthstones
"for top of cake or as a fun keepsake" for your favorite Ursine -- 
a mere $11.98 each.  Or the beefcake ironing board covers (cowboy, 
reclining or construction) "definitely spice up a routine chore"
for $14.98 each.  The "sexy bolster pillow covers" 55" long ($19.98)
with either scantily clad man or woman -- Taylor knows that sometimes
lesbians get lonely too.  Then there's glow-in-the-dark underwear for both 
sexes and an X-rated ceramic mug -- just add hot beverage and she strips
(sorry, guys, female stripper only).  Ah, the home game of "Studs" just
like on TV!  And for your favorite fundie, there's even a Norman Rockwell
illustrated Bible or the miniature pulpit music box which plays 
Amazing Grace. 

I've just scratched the surface; there's the 6' cardboard stand-ups of 
George and Barbara Bush (soon to be a discontinued), a set of Elvis 
glassware (collectable quality), an Electric Mouse Chase for your cat, a 
Marilyn Monroe tree ornament, and, yes, even a Veg-O-Matic for only $19.98!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Redheads (was: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:55:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.004045.5031@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> 
> What do I think about me being a redhead? Not on your *life*. No way,
> no how. Don't even think about it.

Er, um. I trust this is a reaction to the idea of *yourself* as a
redhead, and not a comment on redheads generally. (If it's the latter,
it's a good thing you didn't meet me 10 years ago. On the other hand,
I doubt I'd have been interested in you at the age you were 10 years
ago...)

I must say that my immediate reaction to John's suggestion of you as a
redhead was to be appalled, perhaps on the theory that any change is
unlikely to be an improvement. :-)

> I haven't shaved in awhile - one of my periods of "you know, I really
> don't like shaving."

Know what you mean... I entered such a period in 1970 -- somehow I
never got out of it.

> My beard isn't really full (not much up on the
> cheeks), so I will want to shave it some time. But it has a sprinkling
> of red hairs in it, an effect I rather like..

I think this is actually fairly common among dark-haired men. My
brother (dark brown hair, what there is of it) grew a beard about 10
years ago, and it had a *lot* of red in it. I think I've known of
other such cases, although I can't bring any to mind at the moment.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 05:23:41 GMT


In article <19NOV92.18203237@enh.nist.gov>
aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>>Yes, there is.  I've spent many a happy hour with Fruitbat, meeping
>>gently and feeding each other with mangoes and Emmental.

>I will have to try to find this (and wait 9 months for mangoes again, I
>hope.  .  Anyone know if this is available on this side?  I've never 
>even heard of it.

Easily available.  In our supermarkets here there's a case
with imported cheeses (Havarti, Stilton, Port Salud,
Emmenthal (which looks like swiss, and is somewhat similar),
Gouda, Getjost, etc.).  You probably it have but just haven't
noticed it.

<> What are schools for if not indoctrination against
<> communism? -- Richard Nixon
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:31:52 GMT

> norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>>[George Stephanopoulos is ] also 31-years-old and single.
>>
>>My gaydar hasn't been calibrated recently, but the level
>>reads pretty high on Mr. Stephanopouplos.  On the other
>>hand, it didn't go blip on Pete Williams, so go figure.
>
>Jess dear, it's not your gaydar level that's going up on Mr. S.
>(this might also explain the lack of blip on Mr. W.)

As another Mr. W. in this discussion, I do hope you're
referring to Cousin Pete... :-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:27:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.160718.8015@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
>  I've decided to take leave of this subject

 ... having long ago taken leave of his senses.

> since I've made my arguments a
>  sufficient number of times that I don't feel it's worth my while to repeat
>  them over and over again.

Arguments?  I didn't see you post any arguments.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:29:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov16.163852.19134@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com 
	(Bob Donahue) writes:

>I can think of two examples specifically that involve me:
>whenever ANYone posts the NBCS to the net, I get hate mail from
>people (and I mean pretty nasty stuff).  When I was working on
>the motss survey II, I had the gall to include NBCS as a thing
>to fill in - this started a flame war on why this was
>inappropriate for a "motss" thing since it made speicific
>refererence to "the bears".

I'm sincerely curious about your intention in supplying
the "bear codes" in the survey.  Is it OK for *anyone* use them?
Is there a "party line" (among self-identified bears or among
the larger soc.motss community) about this?

I assume that the codes are intended to identify someone as a
bear -- either to other bears or to bear-friendly people.
In this case, a non-bear using the codes would be intruding on
bear "safe-space", n'est-ce pas?

On the other hand, some time (about a year) ago, I seem to 
recall someone (Steve Dyer??) saying that the bear codes can
in fact be used to describe anyone.  I don't know if he was
being a mischievous devil's advocate or expressing his actual
feelings, but this sounds like what you had in mind for the
survey.  

Do you encourage the general use of bear codes as a shorthand
for describing people, a la Personals section, or should their
use be reserved to identify bears?  

I'm sure people would have no doubt about me if they saw my
woefully non-bear codes of B0 w- h- f- ...; however, I think
a lot of people harbor either ignorance or cautious sensitivity 
when it comes to the purpose of the codes.  Maybe someone 
could shed some light on this.
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:36:22 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <46001@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Nov17.053243.25307@reed.edu>
  <69740@cup.portal.com>

George Madison tells tales of shaving terror:

>BTW -- has anyone else heard the news-bit about the link between
>leukemia and electric shavers?

>[> George D. Madison

Well *I* haven't heard it, and I use an electric razor.  Where did
you hear this?  What did you hear?

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nimble Stumbles
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 14:54:39 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <19921114195841ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
  <1992Nov15.081147.14719@macc.wisc.edu>

Jess Anderson writes:
[About one "Jack B. Nimble"]
>Tell us what the B stands for and maybe we can do better.

"Butthead," quite obviously.  ;-{)##]
 
() Art is either plagiarism or revolution.
()      -- Paul Gauguin
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: kguinn@diana.cair.du.edu (Kip J. Guinn)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Organization: University of Denver, Telephone Services
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:42:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.195330.10398@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND) writes:
>   I read an article the other day in the Boulder Daily Camera that explained
>how the NATIONAL family values people are moving (or have moved) their base
>of operations to Colorado Springs, CO. What a coincidence that the sponsors
>of amendment 2 are based in C Springs as well!
>   So all those who are advocating a total boycott on Colorado, especially
>having seen that Boulder, Denver, and just about every other major population
>center voted it down, should consider that its people from OTHER parts of
>the country that got the darn thing passed here, not the locals.


This is an important point about citizen refernedums:  you must be very
careful as who is backing/supporting the effort to get the amendments
on the ballot, and (especially), who is footing the bill for advertisements,
etc. during the campaign.

For example, I found it very interesting that one of the gambling amendments,
No. 3, which would have permitted certain mountain towns to vote on 
gambling, was bankrolled almost entirely (to the tune of $300,000 +) by
a Canadian businessman who, "surprisingly", owned casinos in Black Hawk
and Cripple Creek.  Not hard to guess why he was for the amendment.
Not hard to see why we saw so TV ads saying "Vote Yes on 3"--I wonder
how much money those towns could have raised on their own.

Amendment 2 was funded, from the start, from religious groups in Colorado
Springs (and elsewhere).  I was against almost immediately--and not
because it was discriminatory (although that was part of it--although
I _do_ wonder whether morality and personal actions can be legislated),
but the main reason was because it was clearly an effort by a certain
religion to tell me how to live and act toward others.

I like making up my own mind.

Kip
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Cheese-Louise
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:20:32 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) wrote:
>In article <18NOV92.19074532@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>>Sim, trying to think if there is a cheese that would go well with
>>mangoes.
> 
>Yes, there is.  I've spent many a happy hour with Fruitbat, meeping
>gently and feeding each other with mangoes and Emmental.

I will have to try to find this (and wait 9 months for mangoes again, I
hope.  .  Anyone know if this is available on this side?  I've never 
even heard of it.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Color
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:29:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <69929@cup.portal.com>, Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank
Swilling) wrote:
> 
> Matthew (What does the *X* stand for?) Melmon sez:

(Donahue said something about my signing posts with an 'X' -
at the time, it was 'Melmothra' - and so I simply adopted his
shorter form.  Now, I suppose, I could be mistaken for exploiting
symbols of the African-American struggle)

> According to today's San Francisco Chronicle, the boycott is just
> now starting to gain real momentum.  I don't have the article in
> front of me, but apparently Barbra Streisand just gave a speech
> at an AIDS benefit in L.A., wherein she said to other entertainers,
> "If we're asked to, we must refuse to play where they discriminate."
> 
> She said this, and other things, in an attempt to persuade the
> Hollywood crowd to stay away from Colorado, which happens to be
> one of their favorite hangouts these days.
> 
> I'll consider the boycott *really* serious if Cher sells her house.

Babs has always been somewhat of a [#insert anti-liberal adjectives#]
leftist.  One more cause, so much the better, so far as she is
concerned.  However, this is a somewhat significant development.
But waiting to see the reaction from the rest of Hollywood is a good
idea.  Colorado and Idaho (perhaps Utah) are *the* winter spots
for the pseudo-moguls of today... I seriously doubt The Arnold 
crowd will pay Babs much attention.

*X* 
(who wonders if Madonna skis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:10:56 GMT

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) begs for attention:
>the clitoris is an evolutionary accident; it is a non-functional
>counterpart of a functional male organ, the penis.

You mean, like your brain, Andrew?
-- 
||| Polly Powledge				
||| Internet: p.s.powledge@att.com
||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:11:01 GMT

Greg Woods (woods@claven.ucar.edu) wrote:
: In article <Bxx8nJ.Kr5@fc.sde.hp.com> marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com writes:
: 
: What #2 says is that an organization cannot be prosecuted for
: discriminating against homosexuals, but there is nothing that says
: they *must* do so. I don't see that #2 prohibits an employer from
: establishing an anti-discrimination policy, and enforcing it
: internally, if they choose to.

Unfortunately, the employer in this case is the State of Colorado, which is one
of the entities specifically forbidden from enforcing any such policy.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 09:07:24 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov15.235608.22978@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
>jeffrey joel walls writes:
>#In article <1992Nov13.145920.16839@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>#>           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado
>#This really pisses me off!  Right now in Colorado (and you obviously don't
>#live here, so what do you care?) the governor is trying to find a way to
>#have the amendment declared unconstitutional.  
>
>And the sooner the governor (or someone) gets the law declared
>unconstitional, the sooner any boycott would end.
>
>#I personally voted NO on Amendment 2, and
>#I am not gay, I simply feel that discrimination is wrong (and I'm from
>#Mississippi if that matters to you, which I doubt it will), and that is
>#why I am so pissed off about this big "Boycott Colorado" campaign.  
>
>Whether you like it or not, the actions of your neighbors reflect upon
>you. If your neighbors do dumb things (like pass unconstitutional
>laws) then you suffer. That's life.

What?!  You're boycotting Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico,
and Utah, too?!  Gack, it's spreading!!  *8)

Seriously, though, I think that your statement is a little harsh.
What if your immediate neighbors moved out and were replaced by a 
bunch of bigoted, right-wing fundies?  Would that reflect upon you?
Does that mean we can boycott your business because of those you
have "associated" yourself with?

Oops.  Your neighbors do dumb things.  You suffer for it.  Your
words, not mine.

Fight fire with fire.  And burn everything down in the process.

cpk
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48844 talk.politics.misc:61322
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:30:30 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Clayton Cramer (cramer@optilink.UUCP) wrote:
 
> The homosexual fascist lobby won't....

Excuse me.

That should be "*militant* homosexual facist lobby".

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:34:35 GMT

mciver@kalkan.cs.colorado.edu (William McIver Jr.) writes:


>I think it would be more reasonable to determine where each
>company stands on the issue instead of assuming that these
>companies are against the ammendment.

>Perhaps part of the anti-Ammendment #2 effort should be to file
>a corporate petition.  Those that fail to produce a statement
>against the ammendment would be subject to the proposed boycott.


Good idea! But I don't really see this as a major thing. After all, when the
boycott against Arizona was on about MLK Day I don't think fine tuning about
which area not to boycott was considered.

I don't know, did every district in Arizona vote against the MLK Day holiday
last time around? What about the ones that DID NOT vote *for* the holiday
this year even though the majority of the state did?

I think one should go by the STATE's final tally. If one wants to fine tune
the boycott, fine. The whole STATE is going to feel the pinch eventually.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"...and monkeys might fly outta my butt."  -- MADONNA, in a S.N.L appearance
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:45:05 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov wrote:
> In a previous article, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) wrote:

> >Yes, there is.  I've spent many a happy hour with Fruitbat, meeping
> >gently and feeding each other with mangoes and Emmental.
> 
> I will have to try to find this (and wait 9 months for mangoes again, I
> hope.  .  Anyone know if this is available on this side?  I've never 
> even heard of it.
> 
I think it's Emmentaler, and it's the original, after which "Swiss
cheese" was modeled.  It's available at "better" grocery stores.
Look for the country of origin (Switzerland) printed in red on the 
edge of the cheese.  It's also good with coffee.  You might want 
to try it before mango season.

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Followup-To: soc.motss
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<CORWIN+.92Nov11120016@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU>
	<1drjnnINNm7g@mizar.usc.edu>
	<1992Nov11.215211.14314@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<mattm-111192151418@mcmelmon.apple.com>
	<1992Nov12.124751.1544@macc.wisc.edu>
	<mattm-121192100658@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:46:07 GMT

In article <mattm-121192100658@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

   In article <1992Nov12.124751.1544@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
   (Jess Anderson) wrote:

   > >Telling an actor to carry himself in a 'manly' way during
   > >the course of a part is *not* the same thing as telling the
   > >actor to change the way he lives his *own* life.
   > 
   > The flaw in this argument resides in the fiction "manly
   > way."  Actors, incidentally, include women.
   > 
   > >Where is the conceptual difficulty in that?
   > 
   > I didn't go too fast for you, I hope.

   Stick to politics, Anderson.  That women also act has no bearing on
   the fact that a *male* student, told to act *manly*, is *not* being
                 ^
That fact is that many male students have been told this and many gay men have
been booted from the program.

Scott