From: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Borgs : WHY?  HOW?  AS IF...
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:05 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <l9svl6INNjth@aludra.usc.edu>, eugenehs@aludra.usc.edu (HEUGE aka Eugene Hsu) writes:
|> 
|> Just trying to make a point or bring forth a discussion.
|> 
|> I have played CALVIN since last December ('cept for summer) and
|> lately have moved out to try other servers.  The one thing that
|> has really disturbed me is BORGS.

Calvin is always blessed, if borgs are there it is because they
have broken the encryption.  Note DO NOT confuse borgs with the Calvin
client which has no tactical and only very minor information features.


|> Those people who play borgs often say 'If you don't like Borgs
|> get off.'

Why would someone who plays borgs ask them to leave???


|>     BUT I prefer to just kill the borgs off (whenever I can).
|> Of course this often gets me phasered to death by auto phasers  8(

A hints file called 'clients' exists which explains how to kill
borgs.  It really isn't that hard if you know what you are doing and
are patient.  If you aren't patient you better be good at ogging
because borgs are generally hard to mono-ogg.


|> Since I am not yet a nettrek master I must comment on this.  IT seems
|> as if anyone can  *steer* a battleship with a borg client that vs. a
|> non-clued team could clean house.  ....

Anyone clued vs a non-clued team *would* clean house.  A clueless borg
is still useless.


|> What the HELL!  Borgs?!?!  What the F*CK!  It's like these guys can't play
|> the game at all and depend completely on having the advantage of seeing
|> cloakers and being able to kill anything in phasor range to live.

Many borgs like to play versus other borgs.  Many borgs like to play
just to blow as many people out of the water as possible.  Many borg
authors like to occasionally *test* what they have done.  Some people
play modified clients that are either the same or very very close
(Snidly) to the blessed client, but they don't use the blessed client
for various reasons.


|> Some may consider Borgs as using an automatic transmission vs. a manual
|> transmission, but I consider it more like having a Chauffeur and a gunner
|> sitting in your limo vs driving your car yourself.

This of course depends on the borg, as mentioned above.  If a borg has
visible tractors as the only feature, or the Beef client as another
example, then I think we are still dealing with a manual with a slightly
improved shifting pattern.  If you are playing against a Pig, GF, or
various other borgs, we are talking M-1 vs Datsun.  But again,
personally I am more of an M-1 vs M-1 man myself.


|> What is ther purpose of borgs (except for newbies to learn)?  

The purpose is definately NOT for newbies to learn.  The purpose for
me, as I have stated, is in my .sig.  Note many players of borgs
are *good*.  The author of the Pig borg made admiral as a blessed client
before he started in on the Pig.  I've made flt-Capt and soon will be
Commodore as a blessed client.

 
|> Why do experienced trekkers require using borgs to play?

They don't, good players will still spot a cloaker a large portion of
the time.  And they will still go 4-1 with clueless players.


|> Why do servers "want" borgs? (by setting up Borg hours)

1) the server god works on modified clients (ie bezier, etc)
2) there is demand for a borg server


|> It seems like borgs take the skill out of the game and out of good players
|> and into the hands of idiots without motor-skill (offense intended).

I agree entirely.  I *hate* playing as a blessed against a borg as much
as the next guy, particularly when 1 or 2 out of 16 are borgs.  One
thing to keep in mind though is that playing against borgs has it's uses, it
makes you a much better dogfighter.


|> well that's it... please feel free to continue this thread (maybe we can
|> ban borgs altogether *ponder*)  hmmm I sense some flames and some oggs 
|> coming my way... 

Borg threads have pretty much already been worn into the ground.
As for banning them, I feel this would have a very clear detriment on
netrek.  If anything is to change, someone must be there to do the
changing.  Borg authors offer a ready pool of people who have virtually
memorized the client.  (Personally, I can literally edit a client with
my eyes closed now, *no kidding*).

Flames no (really, the above is *not* intended to be a flame in any
way), and looking at your name, I never recall playing with you
so you are probably safe from oggs.


					- Jeff

"To make a machine that will be proud of us." - Thinking Machine's motto
"To make a robot that can kick the shit out of me." - my motto