From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Wanted: Lincoln anti-Christian quotes (REPOST)
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:46:20 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <C0p6D8.Ay0@sci.kun.nl> novazem@sci.kun.nl (Leonard Lensink) writes:
>John A. Johnson writes:
>
>>Got no quotations the first time; let's try again:
>>_____________________________________________________
>
>>Subject line says it all.  A while back someone posted a bunch of
>>quotations from Abraham Lincoln that demonstrated his disgust with
>>Christianity.  I would appreciate seeing these reposted or having them
>>sent to me via email.
>>Thanks,
>>John (j5j@psuvm.psu.edu)
>
>In a file, posted in alt.atheism some time ago, I found the following
>quotes attributed to Lincoln. I hope they are of some use to you.
>
>
>"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
> never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
>                       [Abraham Lincoln]
>
>"I am for liberty of conscience in its noblest, broadest, and highest sense.
> But I cannot give liberty of conscience to the pope and his followers, the
> papists, so long as they tell me, through all their councils, theologians,
> and canon laws that their conscience orders them to burn my wife, strangle
> my children, and cut my throat when they find their opportunity."
>                        [Abraham Lincoln]
>
>"I see a very dark cloud on America's horizon, and
> that cloud is coming from Rome."
>            [Abraham Lincoln]
>
>Leonard

Could you provide citations for these quotes?  It would be interesting
to know the year in and circumstances in which he made each one.  The
two anti-Catholic quotes  distinguish themselves from the first one
about the Bible, which implies a rejection of Protestantism as well.  It
would likewise be helpful to know the greater extent of his sayings
about religion in general, about established religion, etc., and about
the changes in his thinking over the years.   I also understand he had some 
personal visionary experiences of his own and was not without a spiritual 
outlook.  

It seems this whole topic would require an extended study of his writings,
letters, attributed sayings and conversations, etc. in context with the
course of his life and especially his political life - e.g. if he said
something in public, this would have a different connotation than his
opinions expressed privately.  Yet the latter requires reflection too,
as he may have said different things about the same subject depending
on whom he was talking to.  

In general I was of the impression that Lincoln definitely believed in
God, and that he took spiritual matters seriously but was not particularly 
a Christian.  Actually few of our Presidents were enthusiastic in religious
life.  I wonder what Lincoln's nominal church was, if he had one.  Also,
did he belong to any masonic or other such order?  I.e. Does anyone 
know of a comprehensive study of Lincoln's spiritual life and views? 

At least the citations would be appreciated. 

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25057 talk.religion.misc:25228