From: udumudi@vanilla (u v babu srinivas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: INDIAN CULTURE - subservient?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 23:09:27 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: vanilla.wpi.edu
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JA == John Ainikkal

JA> If I may, I would classify the Eastern culture (India in
JA> particular) as being a culture that has strived to attain
JA> 'happiness' spiritually. The West on the other hand has taken the
JA> 'Material' road. They are the dominant societies in today's
JA> world. The ills and evils of their society have reduced due to
JA> their increase in affluence.

JA> As long as we in the East, do not attain the achievements of the
JA> West - there will be a good many of us who will be dissatisfied,
JA> not to mention - left in poverty which leads to exploitation to
JA> a far greater extent than in the West. 

it is true that the west has taken to materialism whereas eastern 
cultures have striven to attain happiness spiritually. but I am not 
sure if we can call the present form eastern cultures spiritual. 
they are definitely material too. only with much more affinity 
towards the spiritual than the western.

I think you are wrong in saying ills and evils of their society 
have been reduced because of affluence. they don't have the kind 
of problems which haunt our society, but of a different kind. still, 
though I want to agree with your statement 'how can one without 
even a square meal be happy,' I am sure that an average Indian is 
definitely more happy and content than an average american or western 
who is much more wealthy than his counter part in India. 

I heard of an IIT graduate who has given up his ordinary life and 
has gone to the himalayas to live peacefully. he gets his daily 
meals from the village folks in the mountain ranges. He thinks he
is happy there. you might think differently -- you might think he
has been foolish not to use his education to earn and live like a
raja, that he's stupid to reject all the wealth that was on its way
to reach him, and to live like the uncivilized. but, you can't say
that he's not happy.

no, I am not asking people to give up their worldly life and take to
the his path. but, the part 'spirituality' plays making someone
'happy' should be clear. this is what I was always told when I was
a kid, and I definitely do understand it.

we need not give up our material life, but it can take a secondary
position in our lives. we need to attain what the west has, we need
to get affluent, we need to make sure that everyone gets at least
their daily meals, but giving up the 'spirituality' is not the
way it should be done.


JA> Win the game before U try to change the rules. India is still
JA> living and playing its silly own game. The politicians are still
JA> using religion and the masses are still being suppressed by
JA> stupid, obsolete, defunct religious beliefs. Before we decide to
JA> stay or get truly religious we need to get affluent. We need to
JA> have educated masses to get rid of suppression. An education that
JA> allows U to think for yourself.

this is true. the way the majority looks at religion is the way
you describe it. but, as I said, affluence doesn't mean that we
get rid of this view of religion. the west is affluent, but don't
they still use religion for commercial ends? don't they use it
in politics? the arab countries are affluent too. what do you say
about them? deciding to put 'getting truly religious' behind 
'getting affluent' only makes it tougher to get back. we are only
getting away from 'real happiness'.  also, I hope you realize that
I talk of being 'religious' in the 'true sense' -- as described by
selvakumar in his response to your article.


JA> Religion only leads to attitudes of subservience. 'I am humble -
JA> and I am satisfied with what I have'- this attitude has not
JA> helped over the centuries. We are an overpopulated, extremely
JA> poor, very dissatisfied nation (Fighting for freedom is a direct
JA> consequence of dissatisfaction with many things).

we are extremely poor and our country is seeming with all kinds of
problems. but that is not because of religion as it is, but because
of viewing religion in the wrong sense. it is because of using 
religion for commercial, political and other material needs. this 
doesn't mean that we need to get rid of religion itself to get rid 
of the problems. but it means that we need to get rid of 'using' of
religion and get back the 'true sense' of religion.

though we are dissatisfied, it is not the level it would reach
in any material culture. I agree with that. we are more content
with what we have. but I don't think that's the prime cause for
all what is now.


JA> Do we need religion in a land like ours today?

yes. without it I can't imagine how we would be today. definitely
not like the west, but definitely not as we are today. can you
imagine what that would mean? :)


JA> A culture which is deeply rooted in religion - is bound to be
JA> doomed in a material world. 

a material world is bound to me doomed. only a culture deeply rooted 
in religion [in it's true form] will save it.


JA> There is no need to apologize - I will give U P. Floyds views on
JA> the above -
JA> 
JA> "The lunatic is in my head,
JA> The lunatic is in my head,
JA> U raise the blade,
JA> U make the change,
JA> U re-arrange me till I'am sane".
JA>                             P.Floyd

the day you can give any common indian's view on this, the day when
we would be conversing in the Great Indian Language (tm), the day
the world learns from history and takes to its original spiritual
base -- I am waiting for that day.

I know it won't be in my life time, but I know that the day when you
quote a common Indian is not far away. I have belief in you :)

                                                   -- srinivas

ps: no I am not a religious man, forget about being fanatic. I was
    more an atheist most of my life.. I am not sure now. and one
    more important point -- one need not be a believer to be spiritual.
    what do you say?

--
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian