HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: A couple of questions?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 10:49:04 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec22.230903.1@husky1.stmarys.ca> gen5061@husky1.stmarys.ca writes:
>Another couple of quick questions before I go on Christmas break.
>
>Me and a guy I work with were discussing hockey tonight and we were talking
>about the greatest hockey game I ever saw.  It was the Canada Cup in 86, I
>think, I am really not quite sure about the year but Wayne Gretzky and Mario
>Lemieux were playing on the same line when they scored a go ahead goal in the
>third.  It was a goal against the soviets that would determine the winner of
>the Canada Cup, the next game in the tornament was against Sweden but, it was
>anticlimatical in comparison to the game against the  Soviets.

Actually, I think that Canada Cup was in 1987.  It was game 3 of a best
of 3 final.  There was no game against Sweden afterwards.  The Soviets
won the first game in OT 6-5 and Canada won game two by a similar 6-5
score in OT.  There were many scary moments in game two's overtime when
the Soviets almost scored.  Game 3 was tied 5-5 late in the third period.
The face-off was deep in Canada's zone.  On the ice were Gretzky, Lemieux,
Messier, Hawerchuk, and Murphy (I guess they needed somebody who could
play defense :).  I found it very interesting that Hawerchuk was chosen
to take this all important face-off.  Dale won the face-off cleanly and 
Canada was off on the breakout.  Wayne was carrying the puck in on the 
right wing on what appeared to be a two-on-one with Murphy as the other 
rusher (Hawerchuk's other very important contribution after winning the 
face-off was to provide some "incidental stick-work" on a trailing Russian 
to give Canada the two-on-one break).  As Murphy broke towards the net, 
Gretzky passed the puck behind Larry.  For a very  short moment on the TV, 
you had no idea where the puck was going.  All of a sudden, Mario Lemieux 
appears on the screen in full flight.  He picks up the puck. skates in, and 
buries it in the top glove-hand corner.  All of Canada screams just like 
after Henderson knocked in the rebound in 1972.

Those three games were some of the best hockey I have ever seen.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>    Paul Cyr send e-mail to
>   GEN5061@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: simpson@bnr.ca (Scott Simpson)
Subject: Re: Kings trade Kudelski
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:36:47 GMT

In article <2B361425.862@news.service.uci.edu> assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
>It was reported last night that the L.A. Kings traded Bob Kudelski
>to the Ottawa Senators for Jim Thomson and another forward (whose
>name escapes me at the moment -- I apologize!).  Kudelski had been
>frustrated with the Kings and Barry Melrose over his lack of play
>time this season, and he was happy to be traded to the Senators as  
>they would give him the opportunity to play regularly and show his
>ability as a hockey player.
>
>(If someone knows the name of the other forward the Kings acquired,
> please post --  Thanks!)
>
>Kris
>kris@fs2.assist.uci.edu

Here's all the pertinents in the players gone to L.A.:

Name             No Pos Ht.  Wt.  Birthplace           yy/mm/dd  1991-1992 Team
====             == === ===  ===  ==========           ========  ===============
Fortier, Mark    26 C   6-0  192  Windsor, Que.        66/02/26           Quebec
Thomson, Jim     33 RW  6-1  205  Edmonton, Alta.      65/12/30      Los Angeles

And their stats after 32 Senators games:

Name              No  Pos  GP   G   A  PTS  +/-  PIM  PP  SH  GW  GT   S   PCTG
============      ==  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===  ===  ===  ==  ==  ==  ==  ===  ====
Jim Thomson       33  RW   14   0   1   1   -10   41   0   0   0   0   21   0.0
Mark Fortier      27   C   10   0   1   1    -7    6   0   0   0   0   12   0.0

Any reciprocal information would be appreciated for Kudelski and the other guy
who's name escapes *me* at present...


Later,
Me
----------------->  rec.sport.hockey Ottawa Senators Contact <------------------
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From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: StL/Har @ Birmingham - What happened to it?
Date: 30 Dec 92 05:35:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C024ux.MJw.1
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Dec30.040048.20911@cs.ucf.edu> wilson@cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson) writes:

   This was on the schedule for 12/29 but subject to change. I haven't
   seen any scoring reports and Headline News didn't even list the
   game. What happened to it? Joe has logged in in a week and I don't
   think anyone has claimed to be the Whalers contact.

I heard that there were some organizational problems in Birmingham
(not enough tickets sold?), so it was moved to Peoria, where the Blues
have their farm team.  The Whalers remained the designated home team
though.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
From: cr292@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jim Schenk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Blues Trade Rumour
Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:22:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The St. Louis Post Dispatch reports this morning that the Blues may now be willing to send Nelson Emerson to Edmonton for Joe Murphy.  The Blues have been
unwilling to trade Emerson in the past but they are beginning to panic. They
think that Murphy will help get Hull on track.  The pst says the Blues players
think emerson is too much to give up for Murphy but the Blues are having trouble
signing Emersom to a new contract.  The Blues have a good history of trading
players with contract problems...Joe Mullen, Adam Oates, Mike Liut.
The Blues are also afraid that Chicageo will get Murphy and wil walk away with
the division (which it rips may heaert out to say thay already are) it pisses me
off so bad that I can't spell. Not that I hate the HAwks or any thing...
but I digress.

Jim Schenk
St. Louis U
From: ch218@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Erik A. Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Atlanta Knights-v-K.C. Blades
Date: 28 Dec 1992 19:03:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


When I heard the Knights were going to be within 200 miles, I
decided to go see them.  I was impressed by all the stars on 
that team.  The names people would recognize such as Brent Gretzky,
were rather impressive.  He plays very clean(though that didn't
stop him from throwing quite a hard check).  Though I didn't
have the luck to see Manon play, the entire team looks real good.
The Lightning have some players to look forward to in the near 
future.
 
L.A. Kings- Hockey's Finest.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Subject: NY Rangers games around 18-20 January 1993
Summary: What games, how tickets, what price?
Keywords: Rangers, Tickets
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:17:17 GMT

I will probably be in New York City between 18th and 20t of January 93.
Are the rangers playing any games on either the 18th or 19th, if they
are, who is the wisitor.

Are the games sold out, must one get a ticket in advance, if where
to get them, and what kind of tickets do you recommend? 

Price level?

Thanks for listening.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

PS: to save bandwith you might answer by e-mail.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% Lauri Tarkkonen, Ph.D.(Statistics)          Lauri.Tarkkonen@helsinki.fi %%
%% Department of Psychology, University of Helsinki                        %%
%% Fabianinkatu 28, SF-00100 Helsinki, Finland                             %%
%% Telephone office +358 0 1913255 home 358 0 666108    FAX +358 0 1913379 %%
%%               /S=Tarkkonen/OU=cc/O=Helsinki/PRMD=INET/ADMD=FUMAIL/C=FI/ %%
%% Motto:                                                                  %%
%%"There is nothing quite so worth doing as simply messing about in boats".%%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: FLYERS notes 12/22
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:38:57 GMT

Hopefully by now all interested parties have read Tom Wilson's review of the
FLYERS brutal loss to the Lightning Sunday night. If not, Eric Lindros scored
the first goal early off a steal by Recchi behind the Lightning goal line.
Recchi made the perfect pass and Lindros converted. But it was all Lightning
after that. I only had radio coverage, but Gene Hart conveyed just how bad
the team was, so Tom's Lightning biased review can probably be taken as
a good description...:-)

Injuries:

No changes for that game, but it was annouced today that Tommy Soderstrom's
heart condition has still not been cured. The doctors have cleared him to
play for one month, and after that time he will be re-evaluated.

Lines:

Dave Snuggerud took Andre Lomakin's place on the 4th line with Eklund and
Brown. No other changes.

That's about it for now. Lindros blasted the team's lack of effort in
the press after the game. He complained that the problem is as much
attitude off ice as it is on ice. Whatever that means. Sounds like a
future captian, though, eh?

pete clark - rsh FLYERS contact
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: WJHC: Stats
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:45:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.164616.9713@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:
>
>In Europe practically all players over 21 that have some real talent 
>are playing for their club teams. It is difficult to get event the 
>below 20 agegroup to practice together, because the clubs do not
>like to give them for the internationla tournaments, because they
>are just 'baby' tournamenst. Any single Swede or Finn coming before
>the age of 23 are a great factor in the respective countries teams.
>

The Europeans stop their leagues for the Olympics anyway...right!

Our juniors have very little practice time also. 

And since when have Europeans cared about 'baby' tournaments...the
alleged World Championship has been such a 'baby' tournament for
decades because the European Ice Hockey Federations wanted it that
way.

I want a true World Cup...and an Olympic tournament that isn't a
fraudulent exhibition.

>
>Looks like the Opympic games is a political reality. The NBA 'dream
>team' did not bother to participate in the basketball World Championships,
>but they went to the Olympics. 
>

The NHL in the Olympics is not a good idea politically, economically,
or in idealistic sports terms.

Kitsch will not solve the problems of hockey...and it is naive and/or
foolish to think it will.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: smith@phobos.cira.colostate.edu
Subject: Re: Trade Rumour
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:44:57 GMT
Reply-To: smith%sol.dnet@sirius.cira.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State Univ, CIRA

In article <9212272031.AA25489@malibu.sfu.ca>, chim@sfu.ca (Alan Chim) writes:
>I heard on TSN last night that the rumoured trade between Edmonton and
>Toronto involving Wendel Clark, and Rob Pearson for Esa Tikannen and
>Joe Murphy will be announced Monday, when the NHL lifts the "no-trade"
>embargo.  I think this is a great trade for the Leafs, although
>Tikannen has a hefty salary, he can still do a good checking job and
>he'll be invaluable in the playoffs.  Joe Murphy will, no doubt, help
>their offense.
>
>Alan.
>chim@sfu.ca

Sorry I'm not familiar with TSN. Is it a Canadian network? Was the trade news
announced during a hockey broadcast? Who was the source?

This would be fantastic for my hockey pool team, as I have been hanging on
to Murphy for just such a trade.

Smitty in Colorado
smith%sol.dnet.sirius.cira.colostate.edu
From: glc39@booth.usask.ca (Glenn Chin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Canada takes gold, Sweden silver
Date: 3 Jan 1993 16:51:01 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Canada defeated Japan 8-1 on Saturday to capture its third WJHC gold
medal in the last four years.  A victory for Canada in its final game against
the Czech and Slovak team on Monday would mark the third time in the
history of the WJHC that a team has gone undefeated and untied.  USSR
accomplished the feat twice:  in 1983 at Leningrad and in 1986 at
Hamilton, Ontario.

Sweden wrapped up the silver medal on Saturday by pounding its archrival
from Finland, 9-2.  Peter Forsberg had five points in the game.  Canada
was assured the gold despite the possibility of tying Sweden with a 6-1-0
W-L-T record because the first tie-breaker is head-to-head result.
I feel Sweden's victory over Canada in their exhibition game prior to
the tourney worked to Canada's advantage.  The "revenge factor" in sports
makes it difficult for one team to beat another comparable
team twice in less than a week, especially with teenagers, who lack a
measure of mental discipline.  IMO, Swedish goalie, Ronnqvist(sp?), allowed
two or three questionable goals in the crucial 5-4 loss.

After opening the tourney with two losses, the American team still has a chance
for bronze.  USA edged Germany 4-3 on Dec. 30, lost to Sweden 4-2 on Jan. 1, and
beat Russia 4-2 on Jan. 2.  On Monday, USA must beat Finland and Czech and
Slovakia must lose to Canada for USA to take bronze.  The loser of
the Germany-Japan game is relegated to Pool B next year.

Glenn
From: hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: 1992 World Junior Hockey Championship (WJHC) : CANADA vs RUSSIA
Date: 30 Dec 92 11:42:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.hockey
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.

In article <1hq844INNglr@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>, hlee@unixg.ubc.ca (Henry Lee) writes:
> 
> CANADA 9 - RUSSIA 1    (Canada now 3W - 0L - 0T)
> 
> I only saw the last couple of minutes of the game ...
> Geez, did I really see that score at the end?
> -- 

  Why don't we see those games here in Finland !!! 

  The next game Canada vs. Finland is very crucial. Canada is practically
  sure to take the Cup, if they beat Finland. I can't think Canada loosing
  more than two points in games vs. Japan, Germany and Czechoslowakia!
  But if Finland wins, it means still some hope for Sweden, because I think
  they won't loose one more game... 

  However, I expect Finland to fight well against Canada. At least better
  than the Russians did! Our team is quite good, I think. Almost every
  player has got some ice time in the SM-Liiga (Finnish League).
  Finally, of course, I have to mention the Tampere players in the WJHC:
  Defenders: Janne Gr|nvall (Tappara), Jukka Ollila and Jarkko Glad (Ilves).
  Forwards: Mikko Luovi (Ilves). 
  Only four players from Tampere teams?! Maybe I have forgotten someone...
  Perhaps we could take P.Gynther as 0.5, because he is drafted by Tappara
  and will start here next autumn (?). Now he is with KooKoo (1st Division).

> 
> Henry Lee   <hlee@unixg.ubc.ca> // <lee@physics.ubc.ca>

/Hannu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: rnoia@netcom.com (Roger F. Noia)
Subject: anyone know all teams of soviet elite league?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 06:45:46 GMT

Hi...
does anyone know all the teams of the Soviet/CIS Elite Hockey League?

thanks.. roger

rnoia@netcom.com 		rnoia@scuacc.scu.edu	rnoia@scu.bitnet

thanks!!!!
From: gen5061@husky1.stmarys.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: A couple of questions?
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:09:03 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada

Another couple of quick questions before I go on Christmas break.

Me and a guy I work with were discussing hockey tonight and we were talking
about the greatest hockey game I ever saw.  It was the Canada Cup in 86, I
think, I am really not quite sure about the year but Wayne Gretzky and Mario
Lemieux were playing on the same line when they scored a go ahead goal in the
third.  It was a goal against the soviets that would determine the winner of
the Canada Cup, the next game in the tornament was against Sweden but, it was
anticlimatical in comparison to the game against the  Soviets.
I want to know if the other forward was Dale Hawerchuk and who the defensemen
were?  Larry Murphy and and someone else is what I thought but the guy I work
with disagrees.

Also, did Wayne Gretzky play all 80 games of the season in which he accumulated
the most points ever in a single season?  An astonishing 215 pts.  I want to
know so that I can really compare Gretzky and Lemieux's season's more
accurately.
-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Paul Cyr send e-mail to
   GEN5061@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA

	Go Habs Go !!!

  Some men see things the way they are and say, 'Why?'
  I dream things that never were and say, 'Why not?'
                        -R.F. Kennedy                                        
  You know, nothing really matters            
  Because, we'll all be dirt in the end.                                      
			-Fatt Boys	****************************************
					 All comments are my own and if you    
					 don't like them, don't pay attention
					 to them. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Trade Rumour
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:29:40 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel

umli0052@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Sheng Li) writes:
>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>I doubt that Joe Murphy could play well for Pat Burns...
>
>Clark is too old to fit in Edmonton's long range rebuilding 
>plan and Murphy and Tikkanan are two loose canons.

As I sit here without proof, my trick knee is throbbing and I'm
getting the feeling that either Murphy and/or Tikkanen (esp. Esa) will
end up in a Rangers uniform by the weekend ... With Olczyk, Neil Smith
can now bundle a package over to Glen Sather with or without Eddie and
get a saner roster (they're carrying 27 or 28 players right now, and
can't splice a couple of bodies together to make a complete player).
With the extra Ranger bodies, Sather can let go of Bernie Nicholls
for Kevin Todd of the Devils without suffering on the scoreboard in
the interim.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Latest Leaf Trade Rumour
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:09:56 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel

fischman@nynexst.com writes:
>yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>>
>>  Gerald, after last night blunder against Montreal, I heard off 
>>the radip that there was a deal with New Jersy.   Stay tuned.
>
>I heard a rumour that Tikannen, Murphy and the 1993 1st round pick 
>were coming to NJ for Stephan Richer, Claude Lemieux, and Kevin Todd!

No word from WFAN-AM (all sports) as of 1:00 PM yet ...

>I think that would be a *big* mistake for the Devils.

No, an error for the Oilers outside of Kevin Todd.  Todd has a future
but that's not what the Devils need after squandering the support they
gained during their playoff showing against the Rangers ... the crowds
have not been given any good reasons to flock to the Meadowlands after
many of them finally "came out of the closet" this past April.

Claude Lemieux cannot replace Esa Tikkanen although both are gritty
players.  Stephane Richer has been uneven albeit having had a good
game against the Rangers a week ago.  Here's how I'll slice things:

	Murphy for Nelson Emerson, straight up
	Tikkanen for Rob Pearson and a late draft pick
	Nicholls + Toronto's late draft pick for Kevin Todd

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: simpson@bnr.ca (Scott Simpson)
Subject: Re: Canada-USA WJHC game
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 07:55:10 GMT

In article <9212262357.AA00691@booth.usask.ca> glc39@booth.usask.ca (Glenn Chin) writes:
>Canada won the game 3-0 behind a solid, 40-save effort from undrafted goalie
>Manny Legace.  USA went 0 for 7 on the power play, which included a two-man
>advantage for about a minute and a half in the third period.  

This was *severely* playing with fire.  I thought this time we were trying to
be particularly stringent on the stupid penalties which most of these were
(especially Rathje's, IMHO).

>The Finnish referee, who also refereed at the Olympics, called the game
>quite tightly.

Makkela (sp?).  I hate to see so many penalties (both sides), but the man *is*
consistent.  And boy, were they tight on the offside/icing calls.  Yeesh.
Team Canada had better smarten up when they play Sweden and Russia.  40 shots
and 7 PP's are more than these teams will need.

A good effort overall by both teams.  It was pretty obvious TUSA was shooting
for the 5-hole early, then they were trying it upstairs.  We got the breaks
(like Gendron's goal), and the USA didn't (like the post-shot, or the chance
just before Sittler's minor in the second).

And you're completely right Glenn, Daigle was very impressive in the first, 
then disappeared in the 2nd and 3rd, primarily since Perry was playing the
hot line of McAmmond-Shantz-Lafayette; they were making things happen.

And is it just me, or are those ads in the face-off circle ***REALLY***
ANNOYING?!?!?!?!?  Gawd, I will now pray nightly that the NHL remains
out of the defensive end with ads.  I have a whole new empathy for you Swedes
who (I assume) must put up with these all year.  How do you do it?

Anyway, let's hope Canada can keep this going against Sweden in a few short 
hours...


Later,
Me
----------------->  rec.sport.hockey Ottawa Senators Contact <------------------
- Scott "Stop Calling Me Bart" Simpson | "Hmmm... [chocolate | barbequeue |    -
- CAD Operation Tools Development      |           donuts | potato(e) chips |  -
- Bell-Northern Research Ltd.          |           crumbled-up cookie things | -
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada  [CRK 043]   |           beer | hog fat | boobies]." -
- simpson@bnr.ca       (613) 763-9243  |       - Homer, hero to men everywhere -
--->  In case it's not obvious, BNR and I may or may not share these views. <---
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey