HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kxh26@cas.org (Kenneth D. Huffman)
Subject: Re: Glassmen Brass may have been shafted
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:41:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.155310.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Sounds fishy, what do you all think?
>
>IRC nick-BlueDevil

Okay, the cat's out of the bag.  I talked in high-ranking DCI official
yesterday.  The whole thing is fixed.  DCI gets together a season in advance
and pre-plans the scores for every corps and every competition.  Just like
"professional" wrestling.  It's easier that way.

Can we let it go know???
-- 
"hello/ computer support/ my shift key doesn't seem to work." - e.e.cummings
Kenneth D Huffman   Work: Chemical Abstracts Service    Play: 2740 Wynnerock Ct
<kxh26@cas.org>           Box 3012, Columbus OH 43210         Hilliard OH 43026
<kxh26@cas.bitnet>        614-447-3838 ext. 2290              614-771-6334
From: cogwynn@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: DCI Politics SUCKS!
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:25:45 GMT


 Well, I have about had my share of DCI politics for one year. I have only one,
thing to say about Saturday night, BULL SHIT! I do not think that I stand alone.
Where in the hell did Cadets come from? This is my least favorite Cadets show
ever. Even some of the biggest Cadets fans I know say it was a load. 
 I have another theory. I think the plan since Preview was for Cavaliers to win.
If you didn't notice, their scores gradually went up and passed one of the 
potential winners, the Blue Devils. I like the Cavaliers and the Blue Devils, 
but there is no way that Cavaliers beat them. SORRY! And another thing, I know
for a fact that the whole thing was because all of the pouting about Cavaliers
losing to Star last year. I think DCI officils said, "Let's really pat Cavaliers
on the back and put Star in third." In my opinion Star should have won, maybe
even been second, but not third. 
 I took some views from my friend and this is what we came up with for an order 
without the politics:
	1. Star of Indiana
	   Blue Devils        a tie - hard to call
	3. Cavaliers
	4. Madison Scouts
	5. Cadets of Bergen County
	6. Santa Clara Vanguard
	7. Crossmen
        8. Phantom Regiment
	9. Blue Knights
	   etc......
 Here's another idea. Go back and listen to Relable Rondo and Gowdy. When 
the Cavliers went off we started to gather that there was going to be a big 
change. We picked the correct order from the hints they were dropping during 
the broadcast. All these years you thought the Reliable Rondo prediction was
incredible was a lie. They probably knew from the begining who would win.
 I'm hoping myself to go up to Star of Indiana and march next year. I hope that
political situation gets better or it will be a disappoinment. I can imagine
how those guys feel now.
 So in short Star and BD got the shaft.

Chris O'Gwynn
cogwynn@ducvcax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Glorfindel)
Subject: Drumcorps Sandwich
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:35:45 GMT


	The title means that I'm going to comment on several things that
I have seen on the net the past month or so, that I haven't had time to
put in my $0.02 on.

1.  VK is not doing things any differently than Bridgemen (to a certain
extent), but I don't think that this detracts from the quality of their
presentation.  They  do have to perform at a certain level to make finals
in the first place, too.  I think that it's fairly easy to say that Blue
Knights and Star look like late 80's Garfield.  That's not meant as a 
flame.  Late 80's Cadets is cool.  So were the Bridgemen.  Originality is
definitely good, but let's make sure that we apply the same judging criteria
across the board.

2.  I don't think there is any way that the political aspects of DCI can
be dismissed.  There is just too much circumstantial evidence.  I won't say
anything more about it.  It's a fact of life, and I've learned to deal with
it.

3.  I did not like the sound or seating in Madison, nor did I like it when
I was there in '87.  KC in '88 is the best finals I have attended.  Comfort-
able seats, good sound, easy to get to, etc.

4.  Star has money.  This is another fact of life.  Zingali wasn't forced
to write for them (at least not to my knowledge).  Other people are the same
way.  It is true that the kids don't have to go through some of the things
that other corps do, but that does not take away from the legitimacy of 
their performance.

5.  I don't understand why everyone thought Madison should have placed higher
rs.  Marching was better , but I thought the horns were a little weak.

6.  Also, I thought that BD's visual program wasn't better, it was just
harder.  I don't equate the two.  I should define what I think of as better.
BD does a decent job of highlighting the correct sections at the correct
time.  But transitions, relative to the others in the top 12, are weak.

7.  Before anyone asks, I was sitting at about the 5 up top.  The only
sharp performance all night was SCV, but they were placed correctly because
the horn book was WAY too easy.

8.  BD's drumline just isn't the same without Float.  Yet, anyway.  Parts
are pretty easy, and there's a fair amount of dirt.

Oh well, too long already, I suppose.  Replies are eagerly awaited.

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: hall@cs.uidaho.edu (Kelly Hall)
Subject: Re: VK Bashing & DC North
Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept.
	<HALL.92Aug17084959@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu>
	<BtABrG.CoH@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Aug21.050420.14696@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
	<1992Aug21.150314.6893@pony.Ingres.COM>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:10:56 GMT
X-Posted-From: leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug21.150314.6893@pony.Ingres.COM> peteo@Ingres.COM (THE OLDER I GET, THE BETTER I USED TO BE) writes:
   Even though I wasn't in the drum line, I'll say thanks Brad.  They worked
   awful hard that summer (but then again, which corps doesn't work their tails
   off) and had to overcome some early probs.  I distinctly remember talking 
   to the guys that marched the marimbas, vibraphone, etc..about not practicing
   when the rest of the corps was rehearsing. The reply with a BIG smile was 
   "because we're tickless and we're working on Individuals right now". It was
   a bold statement, but these guys were a little unique, eccentric...
   By the way, this happened about midway through the season.

I believe the mallets got a very high score (and won) at S&E in '81, and
narrowly beat the mallet line from Blue Stars.  (Not that I care much, but
my [ex]wife was in the BS line and wouldn't let me hear the end of it. ;)

Kelly
--
Kelly Hall == hall@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
no disclaimer, no cute quotes
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: stderic7@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Eric Camburn)
Subject: Re: I need two tickets
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:19:52 GMT

I need 2 tickets for semi-finals on Friday night.  You can reach me
via email at: abaeric7@polis.spc.uchicago.edu

Eric - Cavies '79

++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++
++ Eric Camburn - Univ. of Chicago  | qrseric7@paideia.spc.uchicago.edu ++
++                                                                      ++
++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++--++
From: hall@cs.uidaho.edu (Kelly Hall)
Subject: Re: So what happened to SCV??
Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:42:53 GMT
X-Posted-From: leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug18.145950.29375@pony.Ingres.COM> peteo@Ingres.COM (THE OLDER I GET, THE BETTER I USED TO BE, SCV '81) writes:
[deleted]
   \\peteo
   SCV '81, Euph Platoon.

You don't remember a someone from '81 named Joe Pinsetisch (waaaaay off on
the spelling), do you?  He worked with Blue Stars in '82 and said he played
Euphonium for Vanguard.  Just curious...

Kelly

--
Kelly Hall == hall@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
no disclaimer, no cute quotes
From: xklh@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Krista Lyn Haggert)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: DCI Finals
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:12:12 GMT
Reply-To: xklh@midway.uchicago.edu
Followup-To: Fianls
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug17.162223.461@medtron.medtronic.com> ck10322@china.medtronic.com (Cameron Kaszas) writes:

(stuff deleted)
>
>Scores came so quickly, and were 
>over just as fast.  I think this was appropriate, as that is
>how important they really are.  Think about it - how hard     
>corps have worked all year, the friendships, the learning, 
>memories, etc.  Life goes on.  You feel so sorry for those
>that didn't achieve the place that they hoped for, and only
>hope that they realize how unimportant that will be 5, 10 years, 
>maybe even a month from now, compared to what all really happened.
> 
>Cavaliers thanked the audience for their support all year, that
>was class.  

I agree.

>I wished that the crowd would have kept off the 
>field more - this is the corps member's celebration.  I was 
>disappointed that some corps faced each other to play their
>final number, but I can understand it and know how much it 
>means.  

I agree again.  I can never remember a Finals finale
that chaotic.  When Freelancers were marching off of
the field (both of their drum majors were aging out)
some kid ran up and took a pair of their shoes before
the corps was off of the field.  I wish that DCI could
have handled that better but I guess it is too late now,
which is too bad because those kids will never be able
to do that again.

Krista
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: xklh@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Krista Lyn Haggert)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: FINALS
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:17:09 GMT
Reply-To: xklh@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug18.150024.26129@adp.uucp> travisj@adp.uucp (Travis) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.131245.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> streuer_d@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>>
>>MADISON - They were robbed!  Thought they looked, marched and performed
>>better than Star and BD - had them at 3rd in my book.  Their marching is
>>what sold me - I guess the judges didn't like last year's music.
>
>  Yessss!!! I totally agree!! The marching kicked ass.
>
>  Its nice to see that someone alse has my opinions.
>
I think that Madison should have placed better too.
I was sitting there in awe wondering how they got
from one form to the next.  It was like, "WOW, how
did they do that!!!"

Krista
From: nielsen@thestick.Corp.Sun.COM (Bill Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: My comments on PBS broadcast
Date: 17 Aug 1992 23:40:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: na
Reply-To: nielsen@thestick.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thestick.corp.sun.com


Good points you brought up.

After not taking advantage of the great airfares to go to Madison, I was stuck
watching the Final 6 on PBS.  This is always, although better than nothing, a 
disappointment.

There were some glaring good and bad highlights from the broadcast this year.
Those of you who have yet to see it may notice the same things and others may
not think they were all that important.

Good points -

* When the corps was on the field, you would see the name of the piece being 
  and the author.

* The bits they did about the "off the field" activities were good this year.
  There was no "On the Road Again" bit, but we all lived.  There was a good
  bit about how the day in the life of show went.

* Highlights from other competitions, and flashbacks for all of the corps in
  the top 6.  There were some great time capsules on all of these corps.

* The Cadets of Bergen County performance.  I thought it was better than the
  Cavies, and I was truly impressed.  I know that the score was .5 different
  but I think the Cadets had a better show.  

Not so good points - 

* The sound.  It was supposed to be in stereo, and I have a stereo tv.  I was
  really looking forward to a richer, more full sound, but it wasn't there.
  Perhaps it was the station it was broadcast on, but it wasn't happening.
  The sound is usually bad on these broadcasts as well.  This year, I think it
  the Cavies or Star, and there was a mike right next to the guy on a trap set
  in the pit.  The cymbals drowned out almost everything else.  Not good!

* When the corps were starting their performances, you listening to the drum 
  majors introducing themselves, instead of the corps.  Annoying!

* Vanguard's 7th place finish.  This meant that they were not on the broadcast.
  Oh sure, there was a clip of their show, but it wasn't quite enough.  They 
  had to know I really wantded to see the whole show.  :^)


I think the Scouts put on a good and Star was alright.  I seem to remember
back a year or so ago, when the DCI broadcast was repeated.  They showed all
12 of the finalist, clean and edited real tight.  I wonder if that is going to
happen this year?  I will certainly keep an eye out for it.

I think it's time to go watch the tape again!  I just wish I could have been there
to see it myself!

How did the net get together go?

Bill
From: ck10322@china.medtronic.com (Cameron Kaszas)
Subject: DCI Politics (I hate DCI Admin.)
Organization: Medtronic, Inc., Minneapolis, MN
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:15:34 GMT

JUDGING CONSPIRACY? NO WAY!!

It is ludicrous to think that DCI judges are told by
DCI administration what corps should win or place where.

The fact that there are nine judges (27 in all from
Quarterfinals-Finals) would make it nearly impossible
to coordinate - no judge has more than 15 points to
work with.

Aside from that...
These people (judges) give decades of their lives to the 
activity.  They would not devote so much time and effort
only to be told how to judge.  The judges I have met
really care about the kids, and the betterment of the
activity, and would not stand for what you are saying.

Now, I'm not saying that 
there are not personal biases for particular styles,
and maybe even (but rarely, I'd suggest) towards individual
staff members, etc., but that a conspiracy for or against
a certain corps is really ridiculous in my opinion.

I would suggest that the reason there is so much flip-flopping
is because EVERYONE IS SO GOOD.  I think that just as we all
disagree with who should have won, so do the judges, and with
different judges there will be flip-flopping.

If there is (unorganized) politics, I think it's seen by the the
lack of flip-flopping throughout the season, when maybe by peer
pressure, some judges will hesitate to put corps A above corps B
because corps A hasn't beaten corps B yet, etc.

Anyway, I think that the judges do the best they can, and
lets get off their case!

Cam
From: grutz@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Kurt Grutzmacher)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: The Star of Indiana
Date: 22 Aug 92 17:15:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Organized?  GNU is organized?

In article <1992Aug18.142538.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Well, I think it's the Cavies fans that are making it into a "sibling rivalry". 
>Was it the Star fans that booed at the finals last year?  No, the Cavies fans
>booed Star because they won.  Did the Star fans cheer because the Cavies
>got second in '91 (besides because that meant Star won)?  No, but the Cavies
>fans went wild when when Star was announced in third.  That type of attitude is
>totally uncalled for in DCI.  The Cavies fans need to rethink why they are in
>DCI, not the members of Star.

Uh, I had the misfortune of sitting next to a group of Star fans in Dallas
a while back.  Never before have I ever been so insulted by people before..
Not only did they talk in a normal tone of voice while other corps were
playing (louder if it was a corps in contention against Star), they booed
the final scores of every corps except Star, they were always getting up
DURING a performance to get something to eat, and they were just plain 
rude to the rest of us who came to the finals to see a group of talented
performers do their best.

Partisanship has no place in politics nor DCI, IMHO.

-- 
 grutz@gnu.ai.mit.edu -=- "They went to their maker impeccably shaved"
   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   I'm not under the alcofluence of inkalhol that some thinkle peep 
   I am... It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get... 
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: Christopher E. Hagen <cehagen@banana.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: The Star of Indiana
Summary: Why does everone hate STAR:?
Keywords: The Star of Indiana, why do they hate them?
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:51:18 -0500

  Why, exactly, do you hate the Star of Indiana?

 (or, love them/like  them/respect them/etc.)


       I'm just itting here reading all the hatred of them, and I heard all
the booing, etc, all season. WHY? Is it just because we have corporate
sponsorship, and will allow all types of people into our corp, based on their
abilities not their pocketbooks? (sorry, couldn't help but ask that question
since someone told me "The Star of Indiana" was filled with low-class people))


  -chris
-- 
* Chris Hagen   "<risco"  *MAIL ME ANYTIME!*         cehagen@ucs.indiana.edu *
* 221 Roosevelt          The love you take is equal to the love you make     *
* Bloomington, IN        $$$If you live in: IN, KY, IL, or OH-- Mail me to   *
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: Stadium sites will and have sucked!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 15:15:20 GMT
Summary: Camp Randall

In article <1992Aug16.210140.1@vax1.umkc.edu>, cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
> 
> What did everyone think of Camp Randall?

In summary..

BAD POINTS:
- the seats WERE too small, as Nick wrote
- no parking at the stadium
- you could not reenter the stadium once exiting (but this is probably 
  a DCI decision and not a Madison Camp Randall decision)
- the seats WERE too small (they were so small I had to mention it twice!)
- airport is too small...I had to fly into Milwaukee 75 miles away.

GOOD POINTS:
+ plenty of parking at the dorms about 10 minutes away
+ people in Madison were very nice and proud that Madison was
  hosting DCI....I immediately felt welcome when I drove into the city
+ dorms were nice and cheap...only $15 bucks a night for a bed!  and
  the dorm was full of drum corps folks which made for a fun time at
  the dorms.
+ the weather was PERFECT marching weather (but cold in the upper deck)
+ there were no ushers at each entrance...this is a plus to me since
  I frequently moved around to get better seats!
+ $25 admission, in my opinion, is appropriate for finals.
+ I thought the sound quality was fine, but I heard that seats under
  the overhang couldn't hear that well.
+ Madison, for some unknown reason, has absolutely incredible and
  delicious ice cream!!  (does anyone know why?)  for this reason
  alone I'd go back.
+ food was cheaply priced..but then again, I'm frequently in
  Manhattan!

Overall, I'd give it a thumbs up!
Also, I thought Madison was better than Kansas City!

Tom
---
From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: VK bashing & DC North
Summary: If you're going to bash, at least have some substance!
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:41:39 GMT
Organization: StorageTek, Louisville, CO

In article <Aug.14.10.34.28.1992.24986@andromeda.rutgers.edu> dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:

>The biggest problem I have with the Velvet Knights is that they are nothing,
>nothing but regurgitated Bridgemen.

How about an IMHO here? Or, at least, IMO? Maybe even IMHO (Not!). I was
around for quarters and semis in Madison; I did not hear a whole heck a lot of
booing for VK. Nobody in the crowd was moaning about VK's copying the
Bridgemen. Virtually everyone was enjoying themeselves tremendously.

>Do they think that they are actually presenting something new?

Different question: should they check with you to see if you like their ideas
before they do something? Will you volunteer to be Chief of Criticism for VK?
How magnanimous!

It was interesting to see that you were posting in New Jersey on Friday rather
than Being a Fan in Madison. On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing you're
bitching from there rather than making a pest of yourself at Nationals.

>Velvet Knights are doing the same thing only with a modern drill, but guess
>what, IT ISN'T WORKING.

By what standard? Fan reaction? Judge's scores? Exactly what, other than your
ever-so-humble opinion, are you basing that on?

>VK seems to field a full corps every year yet they will always be relegated
>to the cellar (of finals).

My criteria for a good year: any corps that makes finals has had an
outstanding year. Period. VK's show definitely worked. From all I saw, the
kids were pleased with what they did. The fact that an armchair observer in NJ
thinks that they shouldn't be satisfied with their placement doesn't carry a
whole lot of weight with me. It just doesn't make any difference.

An opinion is a lot like a fart. There's a little noise, a little odor, then
it's gone.  Hopefully, you'll be downwind the next time you let loose.

--phil
pae@blackcat.stortek.com
From: pjm@access.digex.com (Paul Masline)
Subject: Re: VK bashing & DC North
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:59:40 GMT

In article <Aug.14.13.30.55.1992.827@andromeda.rutgers.edu> dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:
>kal@vaxeline.ftp.com (Kelleigh A. Lewis) writes:
>
>
>
>   Well since you chose to join this thread after my follow up you
>did not answer my question.  What have they contributed to the activity?
>Is your answer "fun"?  or "different"?  Magic is different.  Troopers
>are different.  You don't really expect me to buy that a gorilla 
>peeling a banana with a girl inside or the guard  using bananas as
>if it were a rifle is as difficult as getting ten people to throw
>triples or quads do you?  You don't really expect me to believe that
>the "dancing" that VK does is as "much work" as what the other guard's
>engage in?  Do you think carrying a pole with a huge head on the end
>of it from the back end of the field to the front for a minute or two
>is as difficult as tossing a flag at a windy show.
>
>   Yes I do think ripping apart everything they do is necessary 
>especially when people try to push them across as actually something
>to be admired, applauded, defended, let alone legitimate.  Who ever
>said that this belonged on the drum corps field?  You wan't to see
>this stuff, watch a Coors commercial or the Super Bowl hoopla?  
>IF you want to watch a drum corps show, check out Star, Cavaliers,
>Blue Devils, Madison Scouts, Cadets, Phantom or Santa Clara.  The
>difference is between chicken salad and chicken shit!  If this
>makes me closed minded, so be it, especially where VK in concerned.

And I suppose that you think PDQ Bach ought to be shot?  I can't
believe there are people with such a closed mind out there watching
drum corps.  On the other hand, I have met quite a few music snobs in
my life, so I guess it shouldn't be too much of a surprise.  I'm one
that always thought music in general (including drum corps) was
supposed to be fun and entertaining.  I may not be a big fan of the
Blue Devils style, nor am I a big fan of John Cage and the Kronos
Quartet, but that doesn't make either of them less legitimate as long
as there are people out there that enjoy what they do.