HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg )
Subject: Re: democratic platform
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:29:42 GMT

Kevin Langston <langston@convex.COM> writes:

>    I don't know about your revised version of the 2nd, but mine reads:
>    "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
>    Right there in plain and simple english, words that haven't changed
>    meanings in the 200 years since penned, it says that the people have
>    the right to keep and bear arms.

yeah, it's kinda like Orwell's _animal farm_ ...what was that law they made
up???...i think it was, "all pigs are equal, but some are more equal than
others"...


*******************************************************************************
* Gregory Tao                      | E-mail to:  gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu     * 
* Univ. of IL at Urbana-Champaign  |        OR      gtao@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* Department of Computer Science   |        OR      gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *
*                                                                             *
*  	``Change, suddenly, is everywhere we look, sweeping empires and       *
*    ideologies before it, shaping a new era even as we watch. Such moments   *
*    are rare. Today we stand at such a moment.''                             * 
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Foreign Interest in the US RKBA (was ACLU & 2nd)
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:20:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.042056.29141@trl.oz.au> djewell@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (David Jewell - Radio and Satellite Networks) writes:

>Yep, we have compulsory voting. A nominal fine is applied to those who do not
>vote and do not have a good 'reason' for not voting. This is enforced by our
>constitution and executed by a government department. It results in a greater
>interest in the political future of the country.

Are you sure it doesn't merely result in a lot of random voting?  I don't
see how forcing someone to go in and make choices they don't understand
or care about does anyone any good.

Even if it does result in a greater interest in your country's political
future, so what?  I don't consider it a legitimate function of government
to force people to be interested in politics under penalty of fines.  Just
because something is a good idea doesn't mean the government should force
people to do it.

>Do you have a problem with this system?

I have a problem with the government forcing me to do anything.  As long
as I am not infringing on another's rights by not voting (if you think I
am, please explain), it's my own business whether I vote or not.  Same
as owning a gun (ah! relevance).

That said, I consider it important to vote, and I always do.

>You can always vote informal if you don't like any of the candidates.

I'm not familiar with this use of the word "informal".  Does this mean
I don't have to wear a tie :-)?  Seriously, I'm curious about what
you're allowed to do, if you don't like any candidates, that is
different from not voting.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: mpetro@brtph126.bnr.ca (Myron Petro P030)
Subject: Re: Without a Clue...
Organization: BNR, Inc. Research Triangle Park, NC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:38:03 GMT


>Keep the cordless phone in which ever room you are in.
 All a rapist has to do is cut the phone wire from the outside 
 before comming in. A cordless will do no good at all. 

      Myron 


********************************************************
all opinions contained in this post are my sole responsibility
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Subject: Firepower (was Re: Waiting periods for guns and domestic violence)
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:05:22 GMT

slzm9@cc.usu.edu writes:
> The NRA seeks to keep the AK-47 assault rifle legal to the public.
> That is enough for me to know they are misguided. Noone needs an
> automatic weapon with that kind of firepower for self defense. Gang
> members however find it an excellent weapon for turf wars.

There's a problem with this reasoning.  Not all AK-47's are fully
automatic.  I can think of a very good situation where I would want a
rifle such as an AK-47; it's called a riot.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Striker 12(was weapon id.)
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:05:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.123124.202179@uctvax.uct.ac.za> glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>The original Striker 12 was a 12 shot 2.75in. 12 ga. semi-auto shotgun with a
>DRUM magazine.  It was SINGLE Action (with a heavy pull though you could index
>the drum without firing a round, Double action would mean you could pre-cock
>the striker for a lighter single action pull).

That's not what double and single action mean.  "double-action" = pulling
the trigger does TWO things.  "Single-action" = pulling the trigger does
one thing (release the striker or hammer).  Many double-action guns allow
some separate action to cock the hammer, but that's a separate issue.

>It COULD be fired one-handed (it was designed as such).

The NFA versions of the striker/streetsweeper were like that as well.

There's also a difference between a drum magazine and a revolver's cylinder.
The US versions were revolvers; they didn't have drum magazines.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: justice@panix.com (Michael Justice)
Subject: Re: Washington State gun buy-back
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:38:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
>A gun buy-back program is being planned for the Seattle area.  It
>is sponsored privately by an organization called "Stop the Violence",
>which intends to collect $100,000 in private donations to buy back
>guns at $50 each during the month of September.

Is there a limit on the number that someone can bring in??  Any restrictions
on out-of-staters??

Seeing as how various Jennings and Lorcin guns can be bought for only
around $35 each, I could pay for the trip with 30 of them. . . .

			-- Michael. :-)
-- 
Michael A. Justice | "They're not filling out the forms!
justice@panix.com  |  They're not doing the waiting period!"
NRA Life / ILA     |  -- An L.A. TV reporter covering a riot-time gun
Registered Voter   |   store robbery (quoted in Shooting Times, 8/92)
From: greg@gogol.network.com (Greg Mclachlan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: BATF and Local Police Join Forces
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:06:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Originator: greg@gogol


Recently here in Minnesota, a new Minnesota Fugitive Task Force (MFTF)
was announced. Today's Saint Paul Pioneer Press stated the MFTF was an
"... unusual task force of nine investigators from federal, state and
local police agencies. The task force includes investigators from seven
law enforcement agencies: Ramsey, Hennepin and Anoka counties, the state
Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the FBI and the BATF."

"... there have been other task forces involving state and local police
agencies, but 'this is the first time we've had involvement with
federal agencies... Now we have a nation wide network and can move
anywhere in the U.S.'"

"In April the Minnesota Legislature passed a law allowing federal agents
to become Minnesota peace officers and work on local cases."

On the previous day's local evening news, the task force was announced and
when it was stated the BATF was one of the agencies I payed close attention.
They went on to say the task force was formed to dealing with violent
criminals, etc, etc, and "possesion of dangerous weapons". Now the BATF
has the state and local agencies to pursue its confiscation of legal
semi-automatics.

The article also identified "Los Angeles, Seattle, Missouri, Iowa and
Wisconsin" as areas were similiar task forces have been created.

Has anyone seen any similiar task forces being assembled in your area?
Is the BATF working with you local police agencies on a perment, on-going
basis?

-- 
Greg S. McLachlan				greg@network.com
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: democratic platform
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:12:19 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Jul24.082241.146532@cs.cmu.edu>, garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

> A woman who wants an abortion must call a clinic and schedule
> an appointment.  I doubt that appointments are necessary to
> buy guns.  

Do you, now!  Well, then, you need some education.

I suggest you walk into a local gun shop and try buying a gun.  See how
easy it is.  See how anonymous.

I did, two months ago.  The rigamarole I had to go through was outstanding.
I'm still at least six weeks away from being able to buy one, and I've
already spent over $100 fulfilling the requirements.

I'm a non-violent, non-drinking, non-smoking, well-employed, volunteer-
for-charity clean-record married-with-children white male citizen of a 
suburban community who wants to TARGET-SHOOT (and whose wife does, too).

Course, if I was something other than that, I'd just look up Vito or
Leroy on the corner in downtown Boston, and walk home with something 
tonight.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: "Demo Gun Control" (Was: democratic platform)
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:08:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.042911.18398@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.015907.1251@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil
>Ngai) writes:

>|>Then please explain why Canada has much lower crime rates than the
>|>US?
>|>By your reasoning, all those bad US guns ought to be as available to
>|>the Canadians as they are to the Mexicans.

>The Canadians have a competent and well resourced police force to
>enforce their gun control laws which have the support of their
>population.

By sheer coincidence, they also have a fraction of our population, and
nowhere near the problems with racism, overcrowding, economic
disenfranchisement, and inner-city decay that we have in the US.  But
of course, those conditions don't breed crime, now do they?  It's the
guns!! (overlooking the fact the heavily-armed US enjoyed a low crime
rate until recently, and overlooking the fact that the areas of the US
with the lowest crime rates have the loosest gun laws, and vice-versa,
and overlooking the fact that most muders in the US are concentrated in
our major cities, all of which are smaller and more economically
homogeneous than any city in Canada...)

Now our illustrious British commentator will explain to us why Northern
Ireland has a such a problem with armed violence, since it shares
England's tough gun laws.  (Don't they know that's illegal!?!?)

>If he looses his gun then all hell is going
>to descend upon him and he is going to get posted to do guard duty on
>top of Mont Blanc for a month or something.

Sounds like an ideal vacation to me!  Where do I sign up?

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: PUBLIC APOLOGY (wuz: talk.politics.guns)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:46:06 GMT

In <1992Jul29.125920.187@lrc.edu> blosser_cy@lrc.edu writes:

>First of all I will admit to my stupidity and thoughtlessness in posting such
>an irrational flame to your newsgroup. 

>Permit me to say one more thing--I can't express how *impressed* I was with
>all the replies to my embarassing flame. Well-thought, well-constructed &
>extremely well-written...perhaps Congress would do better to have some of you
>numbered in their ranks (God knows how many mindless stupid idiots we have in
>there today).

	Now why would we want to soil our good names by running for Congress?
Insert half a smiley for that.

>Thanks again for your time and I apologize for disturbing you.

>Christopher Blosser

	Chris, you just earned more respect from me for apologizing than you
ever could have lost had you kept it up.  That takes courage and honesty,
which are qualities I respect in others.  Glad to know you.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Waiting periods and rights
Organization: The Cat Factory
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:13:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.125305.2020@tc.fluke.COM> ness@tc.fluke.COM (Jerry Ness) writes:
}I just picked up on this waiting period thread so...
}
}I have never ever needed to buy a gun of any kind RIGHT NOW!!

Lucky you.

}
}A lengthy waiting period to do a background check or just for 
}a 'cooling off' period would certainly not infringe on my rights
}or the rights of anyone I know. 

Speak for yourself.  In any case, that fact that you don't mind your
rights being infringed doesn't mean they aren't being infringed.

}Washington state seems to be missing something in their 'waiting'
}period gun laws. A couple of years ago I decided to purchase a
}new black powder revolver. The revolver I chose is a Ruger Old
}Army .44 cal. There is NO waiting period for a black powder firearm
}in Washington. I bought the revolver, powder, bullets and primers
}and just took them home with me. This does not make any sense.
}Does the law think a revolver of this type can't hurt anybody??

No, but it thinks you're unlikely to go on a shooting/robbery rampage
with a low capacity antique weapon that takes several minutes to reload.

This is common in many states and, I believe, federal law.  Black powder
weapons are considered "antiques or curios" and come under a different
set of laws.  You can even mail order them.

}I think we need to get back on track and punish criminals not guns.
}If someone commits a crime, punish that person. If that person 
}used a  gun to commit the crime add 10 un-paroleable years to
}the sentence. 

So, how did you vote on the last bond issue to support and build new
prisons?

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Guns
To: tjviv@usmi02.midland.chevron.com
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:51:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.220553.23466@usho93.hou281.chevron.com> tjviv@usmi02.midland.chevron.com (John Viveiros) writes:
>   And finally, why can't both sides learn to get along?

Precisely where is the acceptable middle ground?

>If we don't start compromising a bit, we might find a majority of

Compromise has two meanings: trade and give up a little.  If you are
suggesting the former, what are you offering gun owners?  (It's
perfectly acceptable to ask us what we'd like if you don't know; it's
much better than assuming.  If you don't care about what we want, we
know that you're not interested in trades.)  If the latter, what is
the benefit and who gets it?

-andy believes in trades
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Washington State gun buy-back
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:16:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.215727.11458@microsoft.com> alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
>A gun buy-back program is being planned for the Seattle area.  It
>is sponsored privately by an organization called "Stop the Violence",
>which intends to collect $100,000 in private donations to buy back
>guns at $50 each during the month of September.

	I might sell some old rattletrap piece of junk for $50, but
	who in their right mind would sell a good piece for that much,
	especially if it is not stolen?  Where do these fools get their
	ideas?
>
>Stolen guns will be discovered through a police check and returned
>to their proper owners.  

	I find this one very hard to believe.  Perhaps when I see it.

>All other weapons will be destroyed.

	Perhaps that should read more like:

		All weapons will be destroyed.

	Call me cynical.

>Individuals surrendering guns under this program may remain anonymous
>if they choose, and will be issued letters of amnesty from the King
>County Prosecutor's office for any crimes involving the illegal carry
>of a weapon, or of receiving stolen property.

	This is patently insane, and I wonder if it is even legal.  This
	program sounds like it probably will generate more crime than it
	it stops.  If you have any problem with the concept of infinity,
	please carefully consider the limits of these peoples stupidity 
	and you should cease be to puzzled.
>
>The operation is being run privately due to a Washington State law
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	By *whom*?  Something here stinks to high heaven.

>which specifies that confiscated guns must be sold by auction; since
>the planners of this buy-back wish to destroy them rather than selling
>them back into circulation, they are running the operation through a
>private group and avoiding government participation.

	Where does this group, whoever they are, get the authority to
	do this?  Again, I would like to know if this is indeed legal.

>The operation is endorsed by a number of government officials, including
>Seattle Mayor Norm Rice and Police Chief Fitzsimons.  

	Gee, I'm SO surprised...

>Anyone wishing to
>contact "Stop the Violence" may use the following contact information:
>
>	Stop the Violence, and Start the Stupidity.
>	Seattle Neighborhood Group
>	500 Wall St., Suite 315
>	Seattle, WA  98121
>	(206) 728-0903
>
>All of the above information comes from an article in the Seattle
>Post-Intelligencer, July 22 1992, page B2.

	Yuck.

	-Andy V.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:18090 alt.politics.clinton:917
From: cah@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Allen Halsell)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Waiting periods and rights
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:19:06 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Jul27.192636.26135@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.172655.21544@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> cah@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Allen Halsell) writes:
>
>>Get real.  Nobody important has ever really proposed waiting periods
>>this long.  It's like quoting the Klan on civil rights and saying,
>>
>Well, the People's Republic of California started out with a
>Brady Bill-like 7 day waiting period.  When it did absolutely
>nothing to stop crime (surprise, surprise), they lengthened
>the wait to 15 days.  The argument that some slimeball politico
>may try to pass warm-fuzzy-feel-good legislation extending
>this wait to 30 days has merit.  After all, they *did* increase
>it from 7 to 15 days, didn't they?

I'm less than overwhelmed by your crackpot-oriented argument.
We're talking about 2555 days = 7 years here, not 30 days.
Read the whole post again or "sit down and shut up," as the fearful
leader says.


-- 
 the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
                 the spoken word is a jacket too tight
Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:18410 alt.politics.clinton:1133
From: dyrda@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (The Conservative)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: "Direct" methods of crime control
Date: 31 Jul 92 04:14:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <ATAYLOR.92Jul30173343@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><   >       Question: which will open the average house door faster, 
><   >       a lock pick or a pipe wrench?

  Who cares?? Do what Sen. (NY) Tony Imperiali says,

 "If a guy come in your house, shoot his ass dead, put a knife in his
hand and then call the police!!!"
 
 If your not home then oh well, criminals strike again. Cut
AIDS research and put it into Law Enforcement, but I can't
stand the fags bitching!!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Richard Dyrda                    |  o    | " It's our highest priority! "
Idaho National Engr. Laboratory  | <(    |       
c/o School of Nuclear Engineering|  [\.  |   Is this the only thing H  
    Purdue University            | FORE! | Ross Perot knows how to say? 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Cosmoline
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:30:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.152143.13906@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz) writes:

>(preferably not 4473'ed at all) and an adequate supply of cosmoline
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^

Wazzat?
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns