From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 15 Aug 92 07:21:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Aug15.072142.22272
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <1992Aug15.035250.14348@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
In article <SHAW.92Aug14222100@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu
(Andy Shaw) writes:
>>Even in foreign countries, white foreigners are often treated very well,
>>because they are automatically assumed to have some sort of power, whether
>>it is economic, diplomatic, military, or just some magical power emanating
>>from their skin that causes them to be some sort of super-human.  Mike
>>Fester whines about being white in Japan: although there are quite a few
>>annoying things that whites will experience in Japan that they won't
>>experience in the US, I would _definitely_ not say that being white in
>>Japan is even _close_ to being the same as being Asian in the US.

Oh, bless your heart Andy for pointing this out!  Something always bothers
me when I hear Mike trying to imply his travails in Japan are equivalent to
the stuff AAs receive here.  You've spelled out very clearly what I've never
been able to quite say in words.

I'll agree with Mike that he probably experienced some of the problems AAs
experience here.  I will in *NO WAY* agree it was anything close to what my
father experienced in his years there.  In fact, one of the best one-on-one
conversations I've ever had with my dad happened once when I was quite upset
over some repeated racist remarks I had encountered in school.  He told me
about some of the things that happened to him as a Korean person in Japan.
He wasn't different but looked up to, he was different and most definitely
looked down upon.  That, I suspect, is a much closer analog to the experience
of AAs here than that of any white person in Japan (of course I mean Japan
post-WWII).

I'd be willing to bet any amount of money available that if one of my fellow
White Americans on this newsgroup, say JJ, were to go to Japan with me, a
Korean-American (but still as American as JJ), our experiences there and the
way we would be received there by a cross-section of the Japanese people
would be quite different.  There's no doubt in my mind of it.

>If that were true, all the fashion in the US would be modeled by Asian
>fashion models, and white fashion models would earn 1/4 to 1/5 the amount
>of an Asian model.

Once, when I was at Cal, it was late, I had no car, and I didn't feel like
walking home from the library.  So I took the "Humphrey Gobart" (kind of
like a small bus).  Well, one young woman was rather excitedly (and loudly)
asking another young woman to talk about her summer in Japan as a model.
I took a good look at the student/model, and to be honest, I didn't see
what made her any different or better-looking than any other reasonably
good-looking white girl on campus.  Really, she was just above-average by
American standards.  Just a normal, kind-of-cute college girl--the kind you
see all over the place.  I would be quite surprised if she got a lot of
modeling jobs in the States, given the competition out there.  But she must
have stood out in Japan (what an understatement :-) ).

>White schoolboys would dare each other to rush up and just touch Asian
>goddesses who they see walking down the street, or maybe if they really
>have balls, to dance around them acting like morons.

Geez, and I thought AA guys were bad.  :-) :-)

>Every single traffic sign in the US would be written in both an Asian
>foreign language and English.

Wow.

>It's true that white people living in Japan experience _some_ of the
>problems that Asian-Americans in America do:

I don't think anybody denies this.  However, I honestly, truly and sincerely
don't believe it's the same as what AAs experience here.  I'd say the
experience of a non-Japanese "Oriental" in Japan is more comparable.
In fact, probably worse.

>Another annoying area is the incredible objectification of whites as
>beautiful, rich, smart, powerful and everything desirable.  Obviously,
>that's not true, and it's annoying to be sterotyped in that way and treated
>like an object.  But that's not exactly the same as the objectification
>Asian-Americans receive in the US.

Yup.  There are "positive" annoying stereotypes, and there are "negative"
annoying stereotypes.  Being thought of as smart because you're Asian (e.g
Doonesbury) or a great lover because you're Chinese (e.g. Cosmo) is a
"positive" annoying stereotype.  Being thought of as "sneaky" or "wimpy"
because you're Asian is a "negative" annoying stereotype.  Neither are
wonderful things, but it's clear which of the two is worse.

In fact, many people are lazy and in fact even use "positive" annoying
stereotypes to their "advantage," at least on occasion.  In fact, it's
probably often hard to resist the temptation.  (Like if a bunch of Chinese-
American men got approached by curious female Cosmo readers in the mid-70s
because of that article, would they all turn those women down out of prin-
ciple?  Yeah, sure.  Same with white men in Japan being viewed positively
by Japanese women.  Same with Asian American women in the US being viewed
positively by White American men.)  Some resist the advantage that the
"positive" annoying stereotype sometimes presents.  Others do not.  And
still others view them as only positive, not annoying.  :-) )

With "negative" annoying stereotypes, all you do is get annoyed.  :-)

>White people living in foreign countries is not exactly the same as
>Asian-Americans living at home.  I agree that they experience some of the
>same kinds of problems, but the overwhelming power that whites hold in the
>world give them a natural advantage anywhere in the world, even in
>countries where they are a small minority.

Yup.  Thanks for pointing that out so eloquently, Andy.

Jim