HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Confusion about "Islam"
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:37:47 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

  I have a request that I'm hoping I'll be able to get answered here.

  What this request comes from is that I occasionally run into those who,
for one reason or another, cry out that I must convert to Islam. There
is within this cry a place that has causes a lot of confussion for me.

  See, I have come to a place in my life where I have committed myself to 
my longing of, and affirming too the One Reality, Allah. For me, there is 
no other. Period! As a result of this I have found myself doing prayers 
numerious times a day. I'm cleansing and doing various purifications 
practices so that I may be a clear and clean when I present my self to my 
Beloved God. 

  So where the confussion has come into place is that, to me, I have 
already converted to Islam. But I'm getting the feeling that those who
cry out that I have to convert to Islam are talking more about converting
to the Muslim "religion" with its dogmas, beliefs and traditions than 
actually turning towards the One Source. And that only through the avenue 
of the Muslim "religion" may one truly come to be a true lover of God.
I feel like I'm hearing two different things and I'm just wanting to 
sort out what the general Muslim community is saying when they wish 
others to convert to Islam.

  I suppose the real question I'm asking is: What is Islam?

  I give my thanks in advance for any responsed I receive.

  May Allah be with you.



 	David Hatcher
        Network Services
        davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com
        (503) 627-2167
From: suheil@athena.mit.edu (Suheil I Laher)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:26:58 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Reply-To: suheil@athena.mit.edu (Suheil I Laher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1iddktINN34f@life.ai.mit.edu>, tehhhal@ioe.ac.uk (MR HANIF LADHA)  
writes:
[..]
|> On what basis do you claim that "It is forbidden for a muslim to be in a
|> company of (sitting with) other people while they are drinking
|> intoxicants..."?

Caliph `Umar (ra) (I think it was) was once faced with a case of some
people drinking alcohol, and with them was a fasting person - the
order was given for the fasting person also to be punished. Umar said
something to the effect that 'whoever believes in Allah and the Last
Day should not sit at a table where intoxicants are consumed'. In this
connection, a verse of the Qur'an [4:140] was mentioned (translation
follows):

And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear
Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with
them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would
be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the
unbelievers all in hell.


Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: islambo@morse.ee.washington.edu ( Tamal Islam 9211055)
Subject: Re: Confusion about "Islam"
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:12:46 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Salaamu `Alaekum,

Never posted before, so let's see if this works...

I know how you feel, and I'm not even a convert.  I've been accosted numerous
times in the past by a group called the Tableeghi Jamaat (sp?).  They tend to
be a pain in the rear, and I almost left Islam because of them, thinking that
if their practice of Islam was Islam, then I wanted no part of it.

Ma'shallah, that didn't happen.  I approach Islam by using logic, since I was
a science geek long before I was a practicing Muslim, and I believe Islam to
be a dynamic religion which is both connected to the past through various
rituals, and a set of guidelines which is adaptable (to a certain extent) and
valid for all time.

Unfortunately, the immigrants (I'm one) who didn't grow up in this country
would have us believe in dogma, and want us riding camels instead of cars.
They carry with them cultural garbage (i.e. treatment of women) which they
declare as Islamic.  This is WRONG.

Islam's strengths are its adaptability and its encouragement to use our brains.
Yet, these gifts from Allah (swt) are not used as such.  Insha'Allah, the
reasonable, knowledgeable, and pragmatic Muslims will overcome the prejudices
and ignorance of our brethren who still live in the 7th century.

Tamal Islam
University of Washington, Seattle
-- 
Salaamu `Alaekum,


Tamal Islam
From: inf.rl.ac.uk@ncar.UCAR.EDU.( (Khalid Akram \(student-david;until 31/12/92\))
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Adam's children, Daajal, Tabligh
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:34:36 GMT
Organization: SERC Rutherford Appleton Laboratories
Reply-To: ka@hardy.inf.rl.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu


In article 93Jan7184554@mimosa.pi.titech.ac.jp, malek@pi.titech.ac.jp (Zidouri Abdelmalek 03/95) writes:
>>Islam as AqIdah and basic belief in the Unity of God (Allah) and the
>>angels and the day of judgement and that Allah sends prophets to humans
>>and Jinn to guide them--> this has been  the religion since Adam (as)
>>BUT every UMMAH before the time of prophet Muhammad (sas) has its OWN
>>SHARIAH (laws). ( wa likulin ja'alna minkum shira'tan wa minhAjan)
>>One example is marrying the sister or brother, this of course was
>>not forbidden in the time of Adam (as) or early after him.
>>
>> Malek.

Is it written ANYWHERE that ANY UMMAH was allowed to marry brothers and
sisters?? I do find this thought rather disturbing.
Is there any indication from *any* sources that Adams male and female
children married each other????? Surely, we cannot speculate that they did,
if it is not in Qur'an or Hadith??

Which leads me on to a further question:

How many children did Adam (alai-salam) have? How many male and female
and what were their names??

Jazakallah Br Malik for your help.

Khalid

*===============================================================*
# Khalid Akram (Lahori)		 #
# ka@uk.ac.rl.inf		 #  still thinking ....
# University of West England	 #
# Rutherford Appleton Laboratory #
# 0235-445867			 #
*===============================================================*
From: spectre@uiuc.edu (Ian)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Results of some study about the killing issue.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:57:49 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Reply-To: spectre@uiuc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

othman@ntrc25.ntrc.ntu.ac.sg (othman (EEE/Div 4)) writes:
>There is always the danger of misinterpreting someone if we just refer to
>isolated sentences so I copied verses before and after the 4:89, which 
>refers to the killing of those who make muslims disbelieve?

Asalamulaikum, Othman.

Yes, I agree that there's not necessarily a contradiction there -- I
was in fact trying to point out that the Qur'an isn't really saying to
kill unbelievers but rather when taken as a whole appears instead to be
saying only kill in self-defence and when the unbelievers are peaceful
then to live peacefully with them and not to convert by force but
rather by reason and a good life testimony.

Wassalam,
		Ian
-- 
---                                      Xtrek is lovely, dark and deep.
God is gracious = Yahya = Yochanan =        But I have promises to keep,
Johannes = John = Jean = Jan = Ian     And megs to write before I sleep,
Internet: spectre@uiuc.edu             And megs to write before I sleep.
From: ST403539@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: a message
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:33:36 GMT
Organization: Brown University
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

to our moslem brothers and sisters .with the approaching Ramadan month
I wanted to write this simple message.we should help the disabled poor old
people.when we return to our countries we can involve in the different charitie
s.so many people are in need of help.and we should also never forget to advance
in science.
From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Subject: Re: Existence of God
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:47:11 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan10.182058.14166@cs.umb.edu> ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem) writes:

> My dear brother Belal,

> Thank you very much for your efforts.  May God bless you and reward you with
> the best.  I hesitated a lot before I decided to compose this reply.  I think
> most of your arguments don't work at all.  I think it is better that a Muslim
> shows this to you than to leave it to the "atheist friends."

> I will only pick a sample of your arguments (time constraints prevent me from
> being more comprehensive):

> 1. All RELIGIONS BELIEVE IN GOD: Your argument here is basically what is
> called in philosophy "the Psychological Argument."  It is attributed
> originally to Freud, and it is an argument AGAINST the existence of God!  You
> are saying:
>  All peoples have religion
>  All religions have God
>  Therefore, God exists.

> But the argument at best shows that God is a universal psychological need for
> humans, not that He indeed exists.  If we both agree that we need unicorns to
> make our bedtime stories nicer, it does not follow that unicorns do exist in
> reality.

> 2. WHO ARE THOSE WHO CALL PEOPLE TOWARDS GOD?: Ummm.  I don't agree with the
> stuff about philosophers.  There were some great philosophers who did stand
> firmly and even died for their principles; e.g., Socrates.

> 3. EVEN DISBELIEVERS IN THEIR HEART ARE AFRAID OF GOD: I don't find this
> convincing really.  Immanuel Kant derived all the moral principles from
> rationality.  It is "normal" that we follow these moral principles because our
> very essence is rationality.

> Also, our need for God does not establish His existence.  On the contrary, our
> need for God might support the claim that *we* created [the notion of] God,
> not the other way round.

> 6. BELIEVERS ARE ALWAYS EXALTED ON OTHERS:
> How about taking a look at the world around us?  Focus especially on Muslims
> and you will see: Bosnia, Somalia, Tajikstan, etc.  Muslims are the lowest of
> all nations.  (I know, you will say it's because they are not following true
> Islam.  But an ateist will not be really convinced.)

> Nevertheless I think you are making an endeavor that is important for all
> Muslims, and for this I thank you.

> Assalamu alaikum, Ahmad


=======================================================================

	"I believe, therefore He is"
	"I think, therefore He isn't"
					-The Guardian cartoon
======================================================================

-hossein

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: hashem@netcom.com (Basil Hashem)
Subject: Islamic Computing Resource Guide - Intro
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:43:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Assalamu Alaikum,

Well, it's been almost 6 months since I've updated the Islamic Computing
Resource Guide. Too long I suppose..... but here it is. Release 2.0.

What is it?
The Islamic Computing Resource Guide is a listing of software and network
resources such as electronic mailing lists, forums, and remote sites (on the
Internet and otherwise) related to Islamic discussion.

In the software section are listed Quran and Hadith database programs,
educational programs and games, prayer calculation programs and other
software.

In the network resources section are listed file archive sites with Islamic-
related information as well as forums and discussion groups.

What Next?
There will be two additional messages following this introductory message.
The first will be a Macintosh BinHex'ed file of a Microsoft Word 5.0 document
that has the guide in a pretty format - nice cover page, multiple columns, etc.
You will need to decode the binhex format and then you can use the file
normally. The document is 13 pages when printed out.

The next message contains a text version of the Guide. Obviously, this format
lacks the nice formatting features, but for those without a Macintosh, this
will have to do. It is approximately 20 pages long.

If you have any questions or fail to receive a copy, please send me e-mail
and I will make sure you get forwarded a copy.

Salam,

-Basil
hashem@netcom.com
From: an1600@anon.penet.fi (homeless)
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:57:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Dear Sir,

Thank You very much for each one of you who have
send a message to me.

My problem was : "I want to organise a party 
for all of my friends", but unfortunately I don't
know exatly what the program should be.

I have friends, which are Islam, Christiant, Hindu 
and from various origin.

When I discussed with some muslem friends of mine,
they had many answers, some agree and some disagree.
I try to satisfy everybody, that's why i got these 
questions.

My question is :"Are there any diversity in Islam ?
or How the muslems see others who are not doing the
same as them". I don't know of many kind of Islam exist,
like the Christiant. Christiant has Baptized, Pantaekosta
and many others.

Thank you all for the suggestions,
Annon


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
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From: inf.rl.ac.uk@ncar.UCAR.EDU.( (Khalid Akram \(student-david;until 31/12/92\))
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Is it okay under Orthodox Islamic teach
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:36:00 GMT
Organization: SERC Rutherford Appleton Laboratories
Reply-To: ka@hardy.inf.rl.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

>>
>>But if a country is ruled by an Islamic government, couldn't
>>any person publicly preaching or even discussing another
>>religion be considered an agent of insurrection, since he
>>is trying to get people to leave Islam?  Isn't this similar
>>to the reasoning where it is considered treason for a Muslim
>>to leave Islam, and in some circumstances (some people say
>>all circumstances) the apostate should be killed for this treason?
>>

If we look at the period of the Prophet (sas) we find that people of
many different religions lived together in Madinah. Also, when Islam
moves into a new area where there are non muslims, they are obliged
to introduce an Islamic state into that area, and the locals are obliged
to pay Jaziah, BUT they are not obliged to become muslims.

"There shall be no compulsion in religion".

Thus we will have a state where non-muslims and muslims have to
live together and the Islamic state is obliged to give all its 
non muslim residents the same rights as muslims. Indeed, their
religious temples (whatever) must be protected and looked after
by the Islamic state.

In such a situtation there is bound to be interaction between
religions and people trying to convert one to the other.

A muslim's belief is meant to be so strong that he/she is impervious
to any form of Dawah except Islam. If differences arise he is just
supposed to say:

"You have you belief and I have mine"

that is it. No fighting, no executions, nothing -> just walk away.

Any person can attempt to propogate their religion to a muslim.
It is up to the individual muslim to whom advances are being made
to realise what is going on any to reject it by using his/her own
brain.

>>And couln't any judge exercise al-Ta'zir for any sort of
>>prosyletization, if that was the prevailing view of the
>>local ulema?
>>
>>Thanks for any feedback.  I welcome any clarifications or
>>corrections to my above comments and questions.
>>--
>>Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
>>Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4098      
>>Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
>>The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.

Allah Hafiz,

Khalid

*===============================================================*
# Khalid Akram (Lahori)		 #
# ka@uk.ac.rl.inf		 #  still thinking ....
# University of West England	 #
# Rutherford Appleton Laboratory #
# 0235-445867			 #
*===============================================================*
From: iskender@csl.sri.com (Iskender Agi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Is it okay under Orthodox Islamic teaching to kill non-Muslim dakwa people?
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:44:08 GMT
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1h984fINNiki@aludra.usc.edu>, jodar@chaph.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) writes:
|> To put it succinctly, There are four Hadud punishments.
|> (Punishments set by Allah (SWT) for particular crimes.)  These
|> four are:
|> 
|> - Theft or 'al-Sariqa' (definition clarified by Sunnat)
|>   <<Amputation of Right Hand>>
|> 
|> - Armed Robbery or 'al-Hiraba' (defined in Qur'an)
|>   <<Death or Crucifixion or Amputation or Banishment>>
|> 
|> - Illicit Sexual Relations or 'al-Zina' (defined in Qur'an)
|>   <<Fornication - 100 Lashes, Chaste Spouse Forbidden, and 1yr. Banishment>>
|>   <<Adultery - 100 Lashes and Stoning to Death>>
|> 
|> - False Accusations of Unchastity or 'al-Qadhf' (definition clarified by Sunnat)
|>   <<80 Lashes and Rejection of Future Testimony>>

Please keep in mind these are MAXIMUM punishments for the crimes stated, not the
recommended level of punishment.  


-Iskender
--
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: ST403539@brownvm.brown.edu
Subject: a message to all moslems
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:34:34 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

with the approaching Ramadan month I would like to remind all moslems
that we have to engage in charity works we have to help  the disabled
the blind and the poor and the elderly.we have to also advance in science and t
echnology.ALLAH's help will be always with us.





Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: Tahir Ijaz <ijaz@ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: JESUS HAS DIED - Introduction to the Series
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:20:08 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


PROPHET  JESUS  HAS   DIED   -   INTRODUCTION   TO   THE   SERIES
*****************************************************************


There was a time when the circumstances surrounding the crucifix-
ion of Jesus was a matter of great debate between Ahmadis and non
Ahmadis Muslims.

Whereas Ahmadi Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet who died  like
all other human beings, a great majority of Muslims held the view
that Jesus was taken to Heaven by Allah  and  a  Jesus-look-alike
was crucified by the Jews instead.

Few non Ahmadi scholars today like to  raise  the  topic  of  the
death  of  Jesus.  To most it has become a non issue.  They would
rather vigorously propound their  interpretation  of  khatam  na-
biyyin.   It  has  become  the "flavor of the month" so to speak.
The majority of Muslims appear to be indifferent  or  just  plain
uninterested.

A more interesting change in the attitude of Muslim scholars  has
been  in  the total abandonment of the belief that Jesus is alive
in Heaven. Only recently I ordered books from the Juma Musjid  in
Toronto,  the largest non-Ahmadi Mosque in Toronto.  One book en-
titled "Myth of the Cross" by Al Hajj Ajijola gave  full  support
to  the Ahmadiyya view that Jesus died a natural death.  Similar-
ly, well known Muslim scholars such as Ahmed Deedat back the  Ah-
madiyya position on Jesus.  Moreover, several commentaries of the
Quran from Egypt, one of them endorsed by Al Azhar, now interpret
the verses regarding the death of Jesus as Ahmadis do.

I will present a series of articles on the death of Jesus,  based
on  the Quran, the Hadith, and books of history. This series con-
sists of four parts, which will follow shortly.


Dr. Tahir Ijaz, M.D.
From: fmk10@amail.amdahl.com (Furqan Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Results of some study about the killing iss
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:17:54 GMT
Reply-To: fmk10@amail.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corp.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu


I agree with you. I think you should read up a little on Saudi Arabia.
There are a lot of laws there that are contradictory to ISLAM. After all
they are ruled by the SAUD's the good old SAUD's. 

So please dont take Saudi Arabia as an example to verify ISLAMIC laws etc.
I think the Islamic Society in Medina is the criterion for any ISLAMIC
state in the world, and at this point there is none that reflects even
1 % of the true ISLAMIC SOCIETY based on the principles of Quran/Sunnah
and practicle experience of the Islamic Society of Medina.

Thanks.

Furqan Khan
From: suresh@argon.iss.nus.sg (Suresh Thennarangam - Research Scholar)
Subject: Re: Adam's children, Daajal, Tabligh
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:37:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1ifqlkINNm2i@life.ai.mit.edu> mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>Assalamu `alaykum,
>
>In article <1id9r1INNvf@life.ai.mit.edu> ka@hardy.inf.rl.ac.uk writes:
>>Hi,
>
>  Wa 'alaykum assalam.
>
>>Q1. Eve was made from Adams rib bone; they had children. Whom did the
>>children marry??
>
>  The children married their siblings.

They did not have any siblings .. The Quran does not explicitly or implicitly
mention any other siblings to my knowledge .. you may correct me if I am
mistaken.


/Suresh

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: spectre@uiuc.edu (Ian)
Subject: Islam Stack
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:41:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Asalamulaikum. Does anyone have Compuserve access, or know of an Internet
site to get this program from?

Islam Stack
-----------
A Hypercard stack outlining the main events of Islamic History, from the
birth of Muhammad until World War II. Includes maps and family trees.

Requires: Macintosh and Hypercard software

Price: Free

Available: CompuServe Islam Forum


Thank you.

Wassalam,
Ian <spectre@uiuc.edu>
-- 
---                                      Xtrek is lovely, dark and deep.
God is gracious = Yahya = Yochanan =        But I have promises to keep,
Johannes = John = Jean = Jan = Ian     And megs to write before I sleep,
Internet: chai@cs.uiuc.edu             And megs to write before I sleep.