From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: State Antisemitism in Russia (was re: reply to S. Borodin)
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:43:06 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <96370@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.034149.29449@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@neptune.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:

>>>In article <96053@netnews.upenn.edu> 
>>>sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

>>>  As for myth about state supported antisemitism - never happened.

Not true, of course.  If you'd like to give us a non-anti-semitic
reading of the Doctors' Plot, go right ahead.  

>>........ Although, that was one of
>>the reasons my family and I did this. Communism is still in Russia, it
>>has just been renamed. Almost the same people in power, different
>>name... Come on! You don't have to be a ginious to figure that one out.

> Did I deny that? Anyway, I make a distinction between the two, e.g.
> communism and antisemitism.

Beside the point.  You failed to distinguish between "state-supported
anti-Semitism" and "never happened."  Which is distressing, to put it mildly.

>>And by the way I do communicate with my relatives and, of course with my
>>girlfriend, and know first hand what is happenning over there. Although,
>>it is kind of hard to communicate when 3 out of 5 letters just never get
>>here. Oh, and is not the post office in Russia a government
>>organization? Yes, it is.

> ?? What do you mean? "antisemitic Post office"? 

In the past, often.  Letters to Refuseniks -- and to other Jewish activists --
were intercepted as a matter of routine.  I don't know about nowadays.

> How about cosmopolitan telephone? It works for me.

And for those listening in.  Again, I don't know if that's the case today.

>>The saying that Soviet (or whatever they renamed themselves to be now) state
>>does not support antisemitism probably means that you are not jewish.

> That is correct. Reverse saying will be also correct, e.g. the acceptance
> of the idea that Soviet state does support antisemitism 
                                ^^^^
                                ????

*What* Soviet state?  Besides, you were saying "*never* happened" a
moment ago.  The use of the present tense is disingenuous at best --
or do you really stick to your "never happened" assertion?

> most likely means that the acceptor is Jewish. 

Bullshit.  It means only that they're better informed than you.

> The problem is that you don't want to accept a simple thing, that is
> that soviets did not distinguish nationalities. 

This is tragically hilarious.  *Please* read a little of the history of 
Stalinism before saying this.  

Besides, if they didn't distinguish nationalities, how do you explain all
the autonomous republics, oblasts, etc?  Or, for that matter, the national
designation on one's papers?

> Jews were just one of more or less groupped people. 

In this case, more.  

>The idea of free emigration for Jews
> made them potentially dangerous to the system. But it is not antisemitism
> it is just that the system preserved itself  from what it felt dangerous.

Bullshit again.  There was anti-Semitism in the system long before the 
issue of free emigration was ever raised.  

> Happen it to be any other nation - we would see the same. It is still
> not actions against nationalities, but rather against groups of people.

An interesting distinction.  What the hell is a nationality if not a 
group of people???????

> In soviet system one could do anything he wanted UNTILL he gets known
> to the system for some (any) reason.

i.e., until one actually did something.  Or until one's nationality 
became an issue, which it sometimes did.  Again, I refer you to the 
Doctors' Plot.

> A simple example. Would you consider a robbery made against a person 
> on a street (random sample of a person) an antisemitic action if the person
> happen (I mean it - happen) to be a Jew?

Loaded question, in that it contains its answer (random sample of a person).
the issue is what to make of actions clearly BASED on the nationality or 
ethnic group of the victim?  Again, many of Stalin's excesses would qualify.

Roger
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:9859 rec.arts.books:19972