HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@sekrit.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Heinlein (again)
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:12:34 GMT
	<C1H9wx.8AI@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <1993Jan27.041501.10024@lucid.com>
	<JOHN.93Jan27101707@sekrit.WPI.EDU> <C1Iy12.88r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: sekrit.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 27 Jan 93 18:00:38 GMT

>>>>> On 27 Jan 93 18:00:38 GMT, mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mildred l perkins) said:

mildred> In <JOHN.93Jan27101707@sekrit.WPI.EDU> john@sekrit.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel) writes:
>>Lola> In article <C1H9wx.8AI@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mildred l perkins) writes:

>>Lola> I'm female, liberal, and independent, and I've never understood the fuss.

>Hear hear!  What is this morbid fascination to rip apart authors, esp
>when they can't defend themselves?  If you take heinlein in the
>context of the AGE he was brought up in, and writing in, what was so
>bad?  Oh no!  I've started another flame war...  sigh...

>				John

mildred> Hmmm.  What is this morbid fascination with saying your piece
mildred> - nothing wrong with that - then throwing in a comment about
mildred> flame wars?  Is this supposed to warn me off responding to
mildred> you?  Is this supposed to soften the intent of your post?
mildred> After being in read-only mode on the net for a while, I can
mildred> understand people walking on eggshells (so to speak) when
mildred> talking about ANYTHING in any of the sf groups.  I've noticed
mildred> that sf fans of all ages, sexes, preferences (reading
mildred> preferences), etc. tend to have a hair trigger on the ole
mildred> flame thrower.  Don't sweat it, John, I'm not like that.

Wow!  Look what forgetting a smiley can lead to!  :]  I really wish I
had put in the *grin* meant to after the "sigh...", but I'm not
sweating it mildred.  And of course I usually exercise my right to not
read stuff that offends me, but I felt I had to speak up and echo what
lola wrote, and how I feel about the perpetual flame wars about
certain authors.

So, how do people like the "Wizard of Earthsea" trilogy?

					John

--
Youth of today!  Join me in a mass rally for traditional mental attitudes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
john@wpi.wpi.edu | Work Station Specialist | Worcester Polytechnic Institute
John Stoffel     | 508-831-5512 (work)     | Worcester, MA  01609
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: kfs@world.std.com (Kimberly F Smith)
Subject: Re: Think of it as Evolution in Action
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:11:24 GMT

In article <1jv4leINNiqh@digex.digex.com> tdarcos@access.digex.com (Paul Robinson) writes:
>Two questions, I need the exact title and the author(s) names for the book
>which uses the above quote, i.e. "Think of it as Evolution in Action."
>

The quote is from "Oath of Fealty" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, 
ISBN 0-671-53227-8.  It appears on page 86.  Definitely one of their 
better one-liners, IMHO.

Kim


-- 
Kimberly Smith                     |
kfs@world.std.com, N1IUS@amsat.org | "... a Weyr is where the Dragons are..."
(508) 664-0628                     |
From: tdarcos@access.digex.com (Paul Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Think of it as Evolution in Action
Followup-To: poster
Date: 24 Jan 1993 17:19:26 -0500
Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Summary: Title and authors wanted

Two questions, I need the exact title and the author(s) names for the book
which uses the above quote, i.e. "Think of it as Evolution in Action."



Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:09:56 -0500 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: A Little Diversion... (Spoilers)
	<1993Jan20.204722.5991@netcom.com>

As with everyone else, I am totally embarrassed at how many names I've
blanked on. Author's names are in parentheses.

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.misc: 20-Jan-93 A Little Diversion...
David Allsopp@SEACHANG.D (3316)

> 1.  Who was the Wizard of Todos Santos?

Sea Wasp:
> 	The computer programmer/designer of the arcology... Tony, I think
> was the name.

Tony Rand. (Niven & somebody)

> 2.  Who built the rooms named Memory, Fear, Heartbreak, Dust and Despair;
> and used his Attribute of inanimate correspondence in a contest of Irish
> stand-down with one known as Kalkin the Binder?

From _Lord of Light_, (Zelazny.) "Sam" is the name I remember, but I can
never keep it distinct from _Creatures of Light and Darkness_...

> 6.  Name both of the sorcerous mentors of Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser.

Sea Wasp:
> 	Ningauble of the Seven Eyes is one. I pull a blank on the second.

Sheelba the Eyeless. (Leiber, obviously)

>9.  Who had 91 days, 3 hours and 5 minutes of life left when he decided to
>forego the usual professional privilege of being collected by Death
>himself, and became Death's servant instead?

From _Mort_. (Pratchett)

>10.  Who invited possession by an Egyptian god, thus opening certain Gates?

From _The Anubis Gates_. He wound up as Dogface Joe... (Tim Powers)

>15.  Who had as his Source the Dwarf Matt Soren?

From the Fionavar books (Guy Kay.)

>17.  Who sold the Duke of Ch'in the secret of immortality, among other things?

From _The Story of the Stone_ or _Bridge of Birds_, but I don't even
remember which. (Barry Hughart.)

>20.  Who became resident Wizard in Gaea, with the unwanted side-effect of
>being forced to control the reproduction of a race of centaurs?

Cirocco Jones, _Wizard_, (Varley)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Designing a Course (was: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:15:56 GMT
Organization: CUMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu

In article <1993Jan21.005159.15127@news.columbia.edu>, ss107@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sergey  Shamis) writes:
|> 	1) it should contain not only the books of American/English
|> writers, but also of some writers from abroad;

Oh, without a doubt.  Can't imagine any good overview w/o Lem, for example

|> 	2) it should contain SERIOUS LITERATURE -- i.e. you would not,

But not exclusively, any more that you can do an overview of 20th Century
_general_ fiction _without_ including some trash.  Sturgeon's Law holds
beautifully, and I'd be hard-pressed to find a list of "great" SF that didn't
have at least some "popcorn" on it.

|> Also, this course should NOT include any books from related areas of
|> literature, like fantasy or horror books.  Neither should it contain
|> any "space adventure" kind of books, like "Star Wars" (which is, by

Which knocks out every space opera ever written.  Are you saying that we
could get away without E.E. Smith?  How about ERB?  These are so vital to
an overview that I can't see how we _could_ exclude them.


-- 
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu       Cornell University Medical College and the
phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
phydeaux@src4src.linet.org      any knowledge of my opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mildred l perkins)
Subject: Re: Designing a Course (was: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:47:38 GMT

In <1k3jqmINNmqn@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

>In article <C1GtwF.wp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  
>mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mildred l perkins) writes:
>> Yeah, I would consider Heinlein important if you're teaching sexism  
>in
>> sf.

>Trying to start a flame war, huh?

Not at all.  I'm not interested in a fight.

>Actually, sexist or not (and I really DON'T want to start that
>war again), Heinlein is one of the handful of most important
>and influential writers the field ever had. Any course that
>wants to cover the development of SF (and not just what
>are the good books of today) has to include Heinlein.  (Wagner
>was an anti-semite, but you really can't discuss the history
>of opera without including him.)

>--
>Jim Mann            
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

I've got no problem at all with including Heinlein, as he was most
assuredly an important author.  Does this preclude his writing being
terribly sexist?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins)
Subject: Re: Designing a Course (was: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:20:00 GMT

Well, for arthur c clarke I would DEFINATELY include Childhood's End. In fact,
I visited my old high school and saw that that was required reading for an
english class (don't know if it was specifically science fiction course or not)

Or, perhaps, 2001. Although I think Childhood's End would work better...


-- 
[Pooh Bear incarnate.                                             ]
[H1 C+ F+ W G+ K+ S+ R- E+ P                                      ]
[                                                                 ]
[To email, please make sure to mail to pooh@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: ravens@wam.umd.edu (Raven Silverthorn)
Subject: Re: Designing a Course (was: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:14:17 GMT

In article <Dave_Wetzel-200193154716@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com> Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com (David Wetzel) writes:
>Things I'd like to see in the SF class (off the top of my head):
>* LeGuin - one of: The Disposessed, The Left Hand of Darkness, The Lathe of
>Heaven
>* Asimov - Nightfall
>* Heinlien - Stranger in a Strange Land
>* Clark - ???
>* Card - Ender's Game
>* Simmons - Hyperion
>* Williamson (I think) - With Folded Hands
>* Orwell - 1984
>* ?? - Moon Moth
>* William Tenn - ???

Just last semester (Fall '92) I completed a course on SF/Fantasy at the
University of Maryland College Park.

The course was two papers (5-10pp), a mid-term, and a final.  The Syllabus
was something like the following:

LeGuin - The Left Hand of Darkness
	 The Dispossessed

Lindsay, David - Voyage to Arcturus
		 The Haunted Woman

Zamyatin (Please don't ask me to spell his first name) - We

Miller - A Canticle for Leibowitz

Hoban - Riddley Walker

Stapledon, Olaf - Odd John
		  Sirrius

The books listed above are in the order we had to read them.  Our teacher
informed us that they were grouped that way for subjects. (ie. Miller
and Hoban = Post-Nuclear Holocaust).

Anyway, the course was really informative as most of the members of the class
were avid SF/Fantasy readers.

my $.02 worth.

-Raven
ravens@wam.umd.edu
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:10:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sfN8yFa00gpI0114c8
	<727890934snz@keris.demon.co.uk>
Distribution: world
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.misc: 24-Jan-93 Re: What _ought_ to be
in a.. Chris Croughton@keris.de (1545)

> Back to the main subject, how about George Effinger?  I was most
> intrigued with his books that in spite of the large amount of technology
> (which seems to get it labelled as 'cyberpunk') I kept thinking that
> "this isn't SF, it's just a good thriller".

Effinger *used* to write SF. Very funny, witty, satirical SF. Everybody
remember _The Bird of Time_? _Heroics_? No?

Well, he's probably making much more money these days, so I can't really
blame him. But I'd kill for copies of his older stuff. I've only seen
them in old hardback editions in libraries.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:07:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

tabron1@binah.cc.brandeis.edu:
>We probably need to recognize that this course should not be an "overview"
>course... I'm looking at this as an upper-level course for English majors 
>and other interested parties (200 level or whatever you like) for one 
>semester in which SF/F works are treated as literature.

Good!  Most of the reading lists people have been posting are useless
without prior decisions about the students' expected backgrounds,
capabilities, and expectations.

>What is it we want to get across? There's no point in just letting them 
>read a lot of novels and talk about them each week with no destination or 
>structure to the discussion... So what would be the central theme of the 
>class? Something about the ways in which SF allegorize the world we live in?
>SF as the apotheosis of secular humanism? SF as the escape routes of 
>possibility for those with no escape routes in the "real" world?

Good questions.  To offer some negatives, since the course doesn't seem
to be a retrospective overview of the genre, it no longer becomes necessary
to include *something* by Asimov, *something* by Heinlein, *something*
from before the Golden Age, etc.  At the same time, it becomes important
to choose books that can be read by intelligent readers who haven't read
much science fiction.  (Too many sf books depend upon a familiarity with
the conventions of the genre.)

I'd concentrate on things that sf does *better* than other genres:
exploring different ways human society can be put together (utopias,
dystopias, alternatives); extending current social trends; extending
current technological trends, and working through their implications;
thinking about some of the big what-if ideas (first contact, time travel
and causality, different kinds of sapience, immortality, close encounters
with god/s...)

Relevant questions include: *Are* these important issues?  Can and have
they been dealt with adequately outside of sf?  What tools does sf bring
to bear that gives it a special competence in these areas?  Should these
works be taken as warnings, extrapolations, or thought experiments -- and
how worthwhile are the answers that are presented or implied?

>I'd like to see a reading list with somewhere around a dozen novels, as many
>good short stories as we like, and some secondary or critical reading -- not
>that there's much out there (and I do _not_ think much of _Billion Year
>Spree_.)

Let me start by offering a strong recommendation for Turners "The New 
World" -- an epic poem set four hundred years in the future.  It's an
essentially optimistic work which presents a world which has neither
regressed nor continued on its current path, but has rather gone off
in a different direction.  (It works well enough as poetry that it is
*not* a slow or difficult read.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: A Face in the Frost
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:14:29 GMT
	<1993Jan25.161903.7766@nastar.uucp>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.misc: 25-Jan-93 Re: A Face in the
Frost Pete Hardie@nastar.uucp (762)

> Bellairs wrote at least 2 trilogies of YA fantasy, the only title I can recall
> is "The House With A Clock In Its Walls", about a youngster having to help
> defeat a great evil that inhabits a neearby house.

He wrote about a dozen of those, actually. (They're easy to pick out --
Edward Gorey did all of the covers, and internal illustrations as well.) 

"The House With A Clock In Its Walls" was the first, and (IMHO) the best
-- the later ones never quite matched it. Still fun though.

--Z


"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Designing a Course (was: Re: What _ought_ to
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:08:32 GMT
Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center

In article <C1Irx4.IAr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(mildred l perkins) writes:
>I used the term sadness because I'm missing out on good reading.  I
>really meant it when I said I liked his writing but I just can't read
>it because it galls after a while.

That's my reaction to Joanna Russ. Well, maybe not good reading, but OK
reading.

David Gutierrez
drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu

"Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: A Little Diversion...
Date: 25 Jan 1993 05:11:53 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: locusts.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@locusts.berkeley.edu

In article <2205@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
)In article <9301201000.aa23349@seachang.demon.co.uk> daa@SEACHANG.DEMON.CO.UK (David Allsopp) writes:
)>			 WIZARDS - OF ALL KINDS...
)>			===========================
)>3.  Who was Chief Forensic Sorceror to HRH Richard, Duke of Normandy?
)
)	Lord Darcy, I believe.

	Darcy was not a sorceror. Master Sean O Lochlainn.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |      "Hey, mister! Your ninja's dragging!" 
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | 
goldfarb@soda.berkeley.edu |
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: A Little Diversion...
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:05:09 GMT
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)

The one good thing about this 'quiz' was watching everyone else not know
the answers!  I got three points (2.5 from the first question - it was
Tony (someone) from Oath Of Fealty by Niven and Pournelle).  I was
thinking that I was horribly uneducated until I saw that everyone else
had problems as well...

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: mlperkin@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mildred l perkins)
Subject: Re: What _ought_ to be in a proper course on sf?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:18:29 GMT

In <moonman.727474224@camelot> moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin) writes:

>	At my university, we regularly have a course on " science
>fiction and fantasy." It is described in our handbook as:

>	"Introduction to signifigant authors and themes of 20th
>century science fiction and fantasy"

>	Yet, the required reading has no I. Asimov, no J.R.R. Tolkien,
>no A.C. Clarke, {much as I'm sort of cold towards c-punk} no
>Gibson, no Orwell, and no Heinlein. Am I some sort of philistine or does 
>the course seem to be missing something?

>	{BTW, I dropped the course upon finding the lack of the above
>authors. For that matter, there's no Trek or Doctor Who either.}

Wow, that is odd.  Who WAS on the syllabus?
From: sullivan@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Aliens vs. Predators?
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:28:37 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <93018.211220GPS108@psuvm.psu.edu>, <GPS108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> Roland Emerich, who directed Universal Soldier most recently, is slated to
> direct.  Peter Briggs has written a script entitled Aliens vs. Predator:  The
> Hunt.  I haven't seen any work by these two yet, so how does everybody feel
> about them as possible choices?
>                                                    --Eric

  Universal Soldiers was just plain nasty, hopefully for AvP they'll at least
get a decent script, the worst part about the movie was that it had hope, it had
a good idea but it just turned into one of these goofy 'fighting' movies.  I
think that Predator I w/Arnold proves that with a good script you can still
have the muscle-head thing going on there, anyone?

Laters,

Kevin
From: bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Poll: What books should be made into movies?
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:58:25 GMT
Organization: HHMI/Human Genetics, Univ of Pa.

In article <2628@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pjhst10+@pitt.edu (Peter J Hill) writes:

   Keep us away from script writers
--------------------------------------
> 
> Shanara Series
> Hitchhikers guide 
> Nightfall (we were to late)
> Tekwar
  ^^^^^^

Too late on this one too.  William Shatner's "books" (I use the term loosely)
are set to be done as a Made for TV movie...maybe even a mini-series or a 
regular series.  Bleaaahhh...

Greg Bole                             "We're talking about a religious 
bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu           experience here.  I might say 'doth'
                                       or 'thou' or alot of things."
                                         Steve Martin in _Grand Canyon_
From: jdng90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Gorsuch JDN)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: robot
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:26:53 GMT
Distribution: rec


 I think something like this was mentioned in Arthur C. Clarke's
2010:Odyssey Two, in which the monoliths   were ingesting Jupiter's
gasses and using them to make more monoliths, and one of Leonov's
crew mentioned the theory you mentioned. Furthur comments may have
been in the afterword. 

  Compare this with the life cycle of a virus, which takes over
 another cell and gets it to make more virus'.

          jon 
            jdng90@uk.ac.soton.ecs 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)
Subject: Re: Movie one-liners wanted + funny stuff from Aliens
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:54:56 GMT

geirj@hsr.no (Geir Friestad) writes:

>Not long before Xmas there were a lot of favorite one-liners from movies
>posted here. Someone volunteered to collect one-liners and post them right
>after the Xmas-break.  Well, I haven't seen'em, so if someone would care to
>mail them to me, I'd be grateful.

>Also, here's a good one from "Aliens":

>You don't see this joke the movie (unless you've got a fantastic pair of eyes),
>but it's explained on the documentary LD which comes with the collector's
>edition of the film.

>The two Marine dropships had their own names and logos:

>The primary dropship was called BUG STOMPER, and underneath the name the
>legend "We endanger species".

>The secondary dropship was called SMART ASS, and carried the legend "We aim by
>P.F.M". PFM means Pure Fucking Magic.

>I liked those! :)

I'm sure everyone noticed that Ferro (the dropship pilot) had "Fly the
Friendly Skies" written on her helmet, but I thought I'd bring it up
just for the hell of it.

                               --Steve Stelter
                                 sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies