From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Walking her to the car.
Date: 16 Aug 92 13:34:07 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Aug15.194621.19611@news.cs.indiana.edu>, Amy Young Leith <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
> In article <1992Aug14.092850.9423@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
> 
>>You have missed an evvent that has shown up too much even on this
>>newsgroup--real men don't worry about being attacked syndrome. WOmen get wlaked
>>to their car, men do the escorting, and forget about the consequences
>>damnit--you're SUPPOSED to be a man!
> 
> Again, I ask you, why can't you do ANYTHING without sarcasm? 

I can. However, I prefer the use of sarcasm in cerain situations.

> 
>>Most men would rather risk the attack than be labelled a phrase that indicates
>>they were born either without male genitals, or they are real, real tiny.
> 
> Sadly, many do feel this way.  I would argue on the "most" part... 
> 
>>Maybe women should do something for themselves on their own--like overcoming
>>the difference by LEARNING to fight, and stop counting on men to be their hired
>>guns. (Actually, welfare-supplied guns.)  
> 
> Perhaps men should also look to themselves for strength and not worry
> about what others might call them if they do something "unmacho." 

I agree. That would help force women into not exepcting us to do their dirty
jobs.
 
> 
>>See comment directly above. Just because I have been in more fights than you
>>does not place a responsabilty on me to protect you.  
> 
> But he's pointing out that to say that men and women are equal in
> ability to protect themselves is, in general, not possible because
> circumstances have made experiences unequal.

That is what he is TRYING to say. However, you can go to the gym and work out,
and go take self-defense classes and more than compensate for our inherent
differences. 

But, most women are too lazy to do this, and would prefer the free escort
service.

> 
>>Well then I suppose women are just going to have to stand up for themselves and
>>compensate. This is 1992, and the old 'we've-been-denied-opportunities' line is
>>a little thin. You want to get stronger? Go to Vic Tanney. You want to get
>>meaner, go tke a self-defense class at some community service program?
> 
> Many women do this. 

Not enough.

> 
>>You want me to defend you in a fight? You first be ready to defend ME!
> 
> I wouldn't count on you for anything. 

Ah...the beginnings of wisdom.

> 
>>When the defendee is someone I do not know, the defender is me, an equation
>>kicks into place--the more likely she is to be attacked, the less prudent it is
>>for me to defend them. Why? Because of something you left out of your
>>equation--as their risk of being attacked goes up, MY risk of being attacked
>>goes up.
> 
> Believe it or not, however, SOME people have selfless concern for
> others. 

Oh, I do believe it. But you still haven't given me a single reason why I
should endanger myself to help you.


> 
>>And no one who is not friend or family EVER is worth that.
> 
> Your opinion.

Exactly. Of course, if you should come up with some reason I should risk
getting mugged myself, other than the fact that most women would prefer not to
shoulder their responsability of self-defense, I would be happy to entertain
thoughts of changing my opinion.


> 
>>Bingo!
>>
>>I prefer not to increase my odds of being a stat for the purpose of someone
>>else not being a stat--unless it is friend or family.
> 
> A common attitude, sadly.

It is called self-defense, and survival.

Heros are often awarded medals to their next-of-kin. Or, as they lay in the
hospital bed waiting to be shipped home because their wounds leave them "unfit
for continued military duty."

Your safety is not worth risking my safety over.

DC