HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare.
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:18:34 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct12.191711.3734@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
> From article <1992Oct11.222738.5429@morrow.stanford.edu>, by silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva):
>> 
>> But in closing, I'd like to point out that Graham's original post
>> was, as I'd mentioned above, a nasty piece of work for the most part.
>>
>> ======================================================================
>> || Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
>> || Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
>> || Stanford University						     ||
> 
> I seem to have lost the thread of this agruement, could you again
> indicate why you though my original posting was "a nasty piece of work."
> 					GW

I think everyone has, at this stage. I thought this was all about
the essentially innocuous post (if socialist and perhaps thereby
unacceptable by definition in the US ;-) (*)) where you carelessly
mentioned Ala-ssippi and Missi-bama or somesuch, and triggered off
a whole series of bizarre reactions. But looking back throught the
backlogue here I get the strong impression that it is still really
about (or at least fuelled by) the US-bashing contre-temps and
backlash of some way back. 

And as another contribution to this whole farrago, I think a
certain amount of sense and a larger amount of nonsense has been
posted from all sides (what is it now, a dodecahedron?) but I think
the use of terms like ``PC-bigot'' is just intellectually bankrupt.

Brendan

(*) Note to Graham: Rotate your screen clockwise a quarter turn to
see what the three chars represent!

Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
Nuffield College                  Phone: +44 865 278642
Oxford OX1 1NF
United Kingdom
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: rcr@babbage.u.washington.edu (Rhonda Corcoran)
Subject: Re: Big Country, the rock group
Organization: UW Information Systems
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:38:39 GMT

Big Country is still around, popular or not.  When I was in
N. Ireland last year I remember a song that B.Country had
just put out.  It was called "Republican Reptile".  Judging
by this song, their sound has changed a lot to a heavier rock
line.  I'm no music critic, so I won't try to explain the new
sound.  But it sounded great.

Rho
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: It's not our fault
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:38:55 GMT
Organization: Really working at Dundee University which has no usenet

Hmm...re the herders and reivers of the borders (though the highlanders
showed some similar tendencies..) - these borders peoples are descended
from Anglo-Normans!! So despite this desire to blame ones forebares for
all current ills I am not sure you can blame cattle rustling on the gaels...
And doesn't this thread really need some input from the philosophers
concerning the nature versus nurture problem. What came first the peoples or
the culture???
From: niall@nmsu.edu (Niall Graham)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Sinead's Performance
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:25:03 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Computing Research Lab


Saturday Night Live is an upbeat comedy show where
quality live music is interspersed among a series of
skits that poke fun at politicians and the likes.
It's probably the best comedy show on television here.
Each week one musical guest is featured.

After Sinead completed the performance of her second song, the camera
focused on her, while the audience started to applaud.  Instead of
accepting her applause in the usual way, she produced a photo of the
Pope, and placed it at arm's length in front of the camera.  The
applause subsided, and was replaced by a murmur of incredulity.  She
then proceeded, stern faced, to rip the 10" color print of the pope up
into little bits, while muttering in her Dublin accent "Fight the real
enemy".  Dead silence ensued.  The audience were present to
witness good comedy.  They were not prepared for what looked like an
adolescent tantrum.  In retrospect, she couldn't have picked a less
appropriate forum to make a (mostly irrelevant) political statement.
She seems to be a lost soul who is completely out of touch.

Phil(?) Hartman, one of the SNL comedians was interviewed on Letterman
last night.  His objection was that she ruined the mood of the
audience for the remaining half hour of the show, resulting in less
laughs for their jokes.  He said that in rehersal she had produced a
photo of a child.  So it appears that during the live performance of
the show she duped the cameraman, as he zoomed in on what he supposed
was the other photo.

Hartman added that he refused to go on stage for the curtain call that
traditionally ends the show; he didn't want to share the same stage as
herself.  Letterman's audience applauded loudly to this remark.  So I
would judge that Americans have grown tired of her antics...

as we all have.

Niall Graham     
Los Alamos
From: spinoza@next06wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:25:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.082455.28509@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew  
Huntbach) writes:
> From: spinoza@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing)
> >picture of John Paul II, and commenced to ripping. Apparently, her  
stand
> >on things Vatican is also colored a bit by her affiliation with
> >Rastafarianism (in addition to her stands on abortion and Ireland), a
> >belief system incorporating worship of Haile Selassie ("The Lion of
> >Judah"), the former Emperor of Ethiopia.
> 
> Well, in this case her stand is definitely hypocritical, since
> the Rastafarian position on women is essentially that they
> should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
> 
> Matthew Huntbach
Oooooooers.....you're right , of course. That should be "seeming"  
affiliation, gleaned from the items she dragged onto the stage with her.  
Then too, there's the bit with the hair. I've met a few Rastafarians, but  
none with shaved heads. In fact, they seemed to go to the opposite extreme  
(that being dreadlocks).

dilige et quod vis fac.
jeff skorecki-weiss
From: ocroci@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: TO ALL "COOL HEADS" OUT THERE
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:40:23 GMT

Thanks to George Bogavac, Zoran Duric, Ana Shana, Andrej Ljolje and Andrew 
Varvel who have written to me in connection to my posting called "A second 
call to sanity".

This posting goes out to all the "cool heads" out there who, as Zoran says 
without explaining why "are keeping a low profile now". Andrew asks "where 
shall we start" to make scj a better place. How about addressing the 
following simple question:
1) What are the objectives of the Serbian leadership or leaderships in 
Bosnia (please note that I have not said the Serbians)
2) What kind of price (human lives, destruction, etc.) is the Serbian 
leadership willing to pay in order to reach its objectives?
3) Same questions but substitute Croatian for Serbian.
4) Same questions but substitute Muslim for Serbian.

Let us start by attempting to reach some kind of agreement on an answer to 
these questions.

Please note that I am not asking why those objectives have been chosen nor 
the historical reasons behind them. Simply: what are the objectives and 
what price tag are the groups involved willing to pay? I am obviously 
assuming rational behaviour (rational in the sense that the means chosen to 
reach one's objective is the best possible one to reach that objective).-- 
************************************************************************
* OSVALDO CROCI				*	Forza SAMB	       *	
* Department of Political Science	*	Go Feildians           *
* Memorial University of Newfoundland	*	Go Town (Huddersfield) *
* St. John's, Newfoundland, CANADA	*	Allez Troupiers        *
************************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:9125 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:327
From: keserovi@ipc5.lat.oz.au (Goran Keserovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Croat Forgery II
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:23:04 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1992Oct7.031419.21361@latcs1.lat.oz.au> keserovi@ipc5.lat.oz.au (Goran Keserovic) writes:
>
>  Please leave us alone in this newsgroup. 
>  You have your soc.culture.yugoslavia to vomit your lies and
>  propaganda......Just like the real thing. 
>

  Ooops....appologies for that bit.  I was in the wong newsgroup !!

  -The rest stands.
From: dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic)
Subject: Re: Eddie the Whinger
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:35:53 GMT

In article <s903626.718501313@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>, s903626@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Nicholas Ivan Fisher) writes:
|> Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.
|> 
|> I cant believe that one person can be so naive.  Do you even know what the
|> word "FASCIST" actually means????
|> 
|> Well just to clear the smoke in your head, the true meaning of fascist is
|> to have views which are anti-socialist, anti-communist, and anti-bolshevik.
|> 

Not quite true.  Here is what fascism means. 

fas.cism \'fash-.iz-*m, 'fas-.iz-\ \-*st\ \fa-'shis-tik also -'sis-\
   \-ti-k(*-)le-\ n [It fascismo, fr. fascio bundle, fasces, group, fr. L
   fascis]bundle & fasces fasces 1: the body of principles held by Fascisti 2:
   a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and race and
   stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial
   leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression
   of opposition - fas.cist nor ;aj - fas.cis.tic aj - fas.cis.ti.cal.ly av

Now, you are absolutely right about the part that Eddie has no concept of
what fascism means nor of the fact that his primitive and stupid remarks,
and the fact that he supports Serbia, which is a " regime that exalts nation
and race and stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a 
dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible 
suppression of opposition - fas.cist" as stated above, make him one of the 
biggest fascists on this news group.  People like Eddie are best to be ignored 
as long as they keep their heads in their asses.

Regards,
--- Davor

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:9135 soc.culture.bulgaria:1522 soc.culture.greek:9728 soc.culture.europe:8950
From: s903626@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Nicholas Ivan Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Eddie the Whinger
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:41:53 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.

I cant believe that one person can be so naive.  Do you even know what the
word "FASCIST" actually means????

Well just to clear the smoke in your head, the true meaning of fascist is
to have views which are anti-socialist, anti-communist, and anti-bolshevik.

Well if this is the true meaning of the the word, then all Croatians
who have been supressed by communism for much of their lives must all be 
fascist as virtually all Croatians hate the Communist regime.

But as people like yourself become naive or simply miss led, they begin
to forget the true meanings to such simple words or they become pig-headed
and refuse to accept basic facts and only believe what they wish to believe.

In your mind a Fascism is Totalitarianism.  But the totalitarianist in this
war is Milosovic and Karadzic.  No oppostion is allowed what so ever.
In your mixed up mind, Communists are really fascists as communists are the
genius behind totalitarianism.  And therefore since you claim to be a Russian
it is you (in your own mind yet you havent yet made the connection) who is
the real Fascist.

I wish people like yourself wouldnt indulge in the word fascist so much 
when you dont know what you're talking about..  In the true meaning of
the word (which I have outlined above) we are all nearly fascist.
I am not ashamed to be against communism.     

It seems to me that most Serbs have their hate fueled by anti-facism when
facism is merely a point a view rather than a way of rule.  The only real
fascist were the Mousolini Italians.  Not even the German swere fascist.
And that goes double for the Croatians.  All the Croatians ever did was to  
try to rid itself of the cetralised Serbian rule in Yugoslavia and return
to the map of NDH all of Croatias traditional and historical borders.
Unlike the Germans we never ventured into foreign lands to occupy for
ourselves.  As for the massacared 600,000 Serbs Jews and Gypsies, the figure
was closer to 60,000.  Nothing near the figure to the one of Croatians in
Bleiberg.

One suggestion before you post again Eddie and any other naive Serb,
"Think Before You Stink"....



"HRVATSKA HRVATOM", je rekao otac domovine Ante Starcevic
i tako mora biti.



BOG I HRVATI-ZA DOM SPREMNI !!!!



NIKOLA!

try to rid itself of Croatian
t
From: ag@duke.cs.duke.edu (Arman Glodjo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: A call to sanity III.
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:58:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Subject:	A call to Sanity III.

I would like to express my thanks to all of you who have
e-mailed me in response to my A call to Sanity I and II.

Unfortunately there still are a lot of you who mail all 
kind of ugly material on the net.  To all of you who 
still insist on pro-ustasha and chetnik propaganda,
try to petition to get a soc.brainless.mudthrowing.to.no.point.adinfitium.YU
and leave us alone.

THIS LETTER IS AIMED TO ANSWER CHICAGO-CRO's question what can be done in 
Bosna.  This, of course is a million dollar question.

I will open the debate(constructivly), and I welcome opposing and other views.

First:	The negotiating team, lead by Lord Carrington has to be deemed in a severe
conflict of interest and disbanned.  Reason: Lord Carrington, his immediate family and
associate hold a vast interest in Zastava auto, mines and other energo-economic
interests.  These are all in serbia.  I guess it takes little brain power to realise
where their intersts lie.

Second:	The extermination and genocide of our people will not and cannot stop by the
means of economic pressure.  This is because of the mentality of the majority of
people fighting.  We have seen a lot of these attitudes on the net.  Agree? 
Therefore:  If we assume that Croats and Bosnians are not only on the right side,
but that they are lead by competent people, then the rest of the world can do something.
Unfortunately, my fellows, Tudjman is once a communist-always a communist.  Think about it.
A short term solution would be to model an attack after Libya, Iraq, Panama, Guatemala etc:
a) Lift the arms embargo to Bosnian freedom fighters.
b) UN(US) air forces fire-bomb the hills surrounding Sarajevo.  These would include
Trabevic, Hum, Igman and region behind Trebevic.  This gets the heavy weapons useless
and liberates the city.
c) Bosnian troups therefore have a base from which to regroup.
d) LEVEL THE PRESIDENTIAL PALACE IN beograd.
This is a favorite weapon of the US, and proved very effective.  Should be used only as a last
resort in case milosevic continues to defy reason and logic.

a-d) should give enough boost to our boys to start taking back what rightfully belongs to us.

Well, I have supplied some food for thought.  I am not a war monger - but war wages now,
these are, in my opinion some nec. measures.

Looking forward for more opinions.
AG 
10-4 Hasana Kikica
71000 Sarajevo
BiH
(This building I grew up in.  It is no more.)
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Damir Matanic:  A Child in Ustashe Clothing
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 06:48:14 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:

> 
> Damir Matanic writes:
> 
> >First of all shithead, no ever said that 0 atrocities were commited.
> >Serbs were killed.  But not the 1,000,000 that has been constantly 
> >reported by anti-Croats.
> 
> >  You said that your grandfather did the killing in Jasenovac.  You told 
> >me this in the private letter that you sent me.
> 
> 
>    
>       I have never exchanged e-mail with you, Damir.  This is
>       a figment of your degenerate imagination.  I received your
>       e-mail, but, of course, did not bother to reply.  Read
>       carefully, ustasha:  I GIVE YOU ONE WEEK TO PRODUCE ANY
>       CONFIRMATION OF YOUR CLAIM THAT I ADMITTED TO HAVING
>       A GRANDFATHER WHO KILLED IN JASENOVAC.  IF YOU DO NOT
>       RESPOND, I SHALL BE FORCED TO CONCLUDE THAT YOU HAVE
>       THE CREDIBILITY OF YOUR CROAT GOVERNMENT -- ZERO.
> 
> 
> 
> >So what gives?  Now you 
> >say this isn't true.  You're the one that needs the shrink.  First you 
> >say one thing, then you do a 180 and state something entirely different!
> 
> >  My only regret is that there still is a Serb population is Croatia and 
> >B-H.  Next time, I hope 1,000,000 do fall dead.  
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
>       Well, you can hope, but genocides are not forgotten soon.
> 
> 
> >Listen little boy, don't lie on this net.  It doesn't do much for your
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >image.
>  ^^^^^^
> 
> 
>       This nonsense is akin to Hitler's claim that Nazi Germany
>       was defending Western Civilization against evil Russia.
>       It would appear that you would stop at nothing to convey
>       your abhorrence of Serbs and Jews.  Indeed, I've learned a good
>       lesson from all this.
> 
>   
> >communist Croatian leaders=fascist state------huh, you are sick in the 
> >head!!
> 
> 
> 
> -- Eduard Wiener

I don't give a damn what you conclude!  You know exactly what you stated 
in your letter.   You never mention anything about the Serbian genocidal 
behavior in Croatia and B-H. Very well Eddie.  Now we know were you 
stand.  You are a clear supporter of Serbian fascism.  You support the 
same acts of genocide that the Nazies of Germany committed in WW II.

Like I said before; you're a sick, sick boy Eddie.  Go back to your 
hospital bed.  Stop with these stupid messages of yours.  You make no 
sence.

--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: nils@suca01.cern.ch (Nils-Joar Hoimyr)
Subject: Re: For the Last Time
Keywords: How did a Facist like Damir Matanic enter a university?
Organization: CERN,  European Organization for Nuclear Research
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:20:03 GMT

Damir's list of facts implies a final one:


Fact: If there were no people like Damir on this Earth, it would be a peaceful
place. 


Attitudes like yours are disgusting, regardless of nationality.  As long as there 
are plenty of people with attitudes like you on all sides in the Balkans, it will 
be impossible to create peace there.   One can perhaps understand why uneducated
Serbian villagers fed with propaganda can have similar attitudes, but as you live
in a developed society  with access to many sources of information, this is 
totally unacceptable.  

There are many posters who have lost their perspectives on this net, but the case
D. Matanic is the worst one!!  (Chicago-Cro, where are you?  Can you beat him?
Serbian posters like Draskovic have no chance to catch up with this Croat duo, as 
long as they only re-post Belgrade propaganda, without directly encourage people 
to kill each other..)

-- 
Cheers, Nils



Nils-Joar Hoimyr
From: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Commentary on Slovene Language
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:19:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: unixland.1992Oct14.221914.25582
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848

This comes from the English-language magazine MM Slovenija, published
in Ljubljana. This is one of the most beautiful piece of writing to 
explain a difficult (for foreigners) point of grammar that I have ever seen.
It was written by Boris A. Novak.

"The Slovene Dual -- An Island of Intimacy"

The Slovene language is one of the few contemporary languages to
maintain an ancient grammatical form which no longer exists in other
modern European languages. Between singular and plural we have a
special form: dual -- for two persons or things. For example:

I am speaking -- govorim;

we are speaking (for three persons and more) -- govorimo;

the two of us are speaking -- govoriva.

It is a similar case with nouns. For example:

a book -- knjiga;

books (for three books and more) -- knjige;

two books -- knjigi.

Since we have six different cases, different declensions and
conjugations, it is obvious that dual represents quite a problem for
foreigners who learn our language.
 
As you can imagine, this form plays a special role in Slovene love
poetry. Dual is a language of lovers, an island of intimacy. Between
two deserts -- between the silence of the solitude and the noise of
the crowd -- there is an oasis of whispers which flourishes in our
language alone. Here, two solitudes form a fragile bond, speaking to
each other in a low voice, protected by the very syntax of our
language.

This is one reason why we jealously strive to keep this form alive.
 
If a Slovene love poem using the dual form is translated into other
languages, the atmosphere of intimacy is, unfortunately, lost. More
than any other dimension of our culture, dual symbolizes the soul of
the Slovene people. We like to joke that Slovenia is so small that
even two people together form a quantity which cannot be neglected.
 
When Slovene writers write in the language which is spoken by only two
million people we, almost physically, feel a nearness of silence.

-- 
Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
Framingham, MA  USA
email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon
From: ar3@cove.cis.ufl.edu (Aleksander Rapisavljevic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: A rare occassion of sanity
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:04:57 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In her article <1992Sep8.000326> (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
( refering to the militant fraction of Serbs in BIH ):

>> THOSE WHO WERE FIRST TO USE A *MILITARY* RESPONSE TO A *POLITICAL*
>> PROBLEM MUST ACCEPT THE MAJORITY OF BLAME FOR THE CARNAGE.
>> ... but actually what "ignited" the war was certain people with
>> guns who started throwing barricades up in the streets (weeks before
>> the recognition), shooting unarmed peace demonstrators,
>> ...They needlessly unleashed massive death, destruction, and suffering in a
>> country that could have found a peaceful, political solution to its
>> problems.

In his article <1992Sep8.132327> (Milan Pavlovic) replys :

> Dear Sharon,
> I think you missed my posts ...The Serbs were framed.....
> .....actually the Slavic muslims fired on that crowd.....
> ..... you will still blame Serbs for everything no matter what articles
> and proof I post here....
      ^^^^^

The publication he is using as the proof: 

>From Pogledi #107 (April 24 - May 15, 1992.) ...several pages ...
>=============================================

For readers' (and Sharon's) information this "trustworthy" source
of information comes from the arsenal of Serbian war propaganda. Not
to mention that the comunist government of Miloshevich  never had
a reputation for promoting free  press.  

I suggest that for the sake of academic disscussion we stick to the media
published outside the borders of ex-yugo (it tends to be biased). 
A similar (maybe even lesser) mistake would be to rely on news published 
under Bosnian government or any other warring party (I wonder what THEY
would have to say about this).

Nevertheless, it appears odd that despite "ruthless surprise attack"
by Muslim-Croatian forces (as portrayed in the article) , the Serbs had
their havy artillery, tanks and warplanes ready next minute, whereas
Bosnians aparently  forgot to purchase their own weaponry to slaughter Serbs.
Ooops, bad planning.

Alex. Radisavljevic