HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.general,can.francais
Subject: TERMIUM sur CD-ROM
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:13:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxHIJ6.Bx1.1
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU



Du Secre'tariat d'Etat du Canada...


		 CONNAISSEZ-VOUS TERMIUM SUR CD-ROM?

T erminez vos traductions en un temps record.
E ntamez sans peur les textes ardus.
R e'visez et re'digez rapidement.
M ariez la qualite' a` la quantite'.
I maginez un rendement supe'rieur.
U ne satisfaction professionelle accrue.
M at^trisez l'art de la communication gra^ce a` TERMIUM sur CD-ROM.


	La banque de donne'es linguistiques, TERMIUM sur CD-ROM, met
a` votre disposition une terminologie fiable utilise'e par l'ensemble
des pays francophones et anglophones.

	Vous trouverez en effet dans TERMUM sur CD-ROM pre`s d'un
million d'e'quivalences anglais-franc,ais, solutions a` vos proble`mes
de terminologie, d'appelations ou de traduction.

	Heureux d'e'viter des recherches prolonge'es et frustrantes,
satisfaits d'avoir augmente' leur production, nos clients se
re'abonnent a` TERMIUM sur CD-ROM.



				 -*-

    Pour de plus amples renseignements, communiquez avec nous par
  te'le'phone au (819) 997-9727, par te'le'copieur au (819)994-3670,
			   ou par la poste:

		    Secre'tariat d'Etat du Canada
      Direction de la terminologie et des services linguistiques
      Division de la promotion et des services a` la clie`ntele
		       Ottawa (Ontario), CANADA
			       K1A 0M5


--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross)
Subject: Re: So its Clinton/Gore, eh?
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: world 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:12:59 GMT

bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
: In <1992Nov5.025659.268@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm) writes:
: 
: >	I can *live* with Clinton and Gore in the Whitehouse, it's 
: >	Al's wife Tipper that scares me.  She's heavily into the 
: >	censorship thing with her band of Washington wives and their
: >	PMRC (Parents Music Resource Center).  I thought she was a
: >	Republican !!!  Surprise surprise.
: 
: Can we please put this BS to bed. PMRC want's recordings with
: *adult* (actually, pretty damn childish IMHO) lyrics to be so
: labeled. They aren't burned in big bonfires, etc. Suppose you
: have a young daughter and buy her a R&R record for a present,
: but you don't know the R&R scene. Wouldn't it be just great
: to hear it for the first time and find all they are singing
: about is [expletive deleted].
: 
: It was *not* censorship, merely *truth in labeling* :-/

I agree.  Because most stores refuse to refund CD's and tapes due
to the problem of piracy, the only fair thing to do is to warn the listener
about what they're buying beforehand.  It's less of a measure than
what movie theaters do, as they not only warn about a film's contents,
but will ban underage people from attending them.
-- 
Brian Ross                         "How do we arrange lures in our tackle box?
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca     From left to right, according to size and 
                                    frequency of use." -- Anal-Retentive Chef.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Speaking French on newsgroups
Organization:  Ontario
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:08:11 GMT

In article <BxJD67.MAx@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> tdwebste@sparta.uwaterloo.ca (Timothy D. Webster) writes:
>
>>>pleinement une certaine intervention gouvernementale dans les echanges
>>>commerciaux (et aussi dans l'education, les telecommunications, l'assurance-
>>>maladie, etc.)
>>
>>This is ridiculous.  Do you really expect (or want?) me or any other unilingual
>>anglophone to respond to this?
>>I swear you're doing this to bother me, because I can see no other logical
>>explanation...
>
>I am flame bate, but here goes. Purhaps you see what is like to speak a
>language other than English. Whoever responded to your English article
>translated it into French. Purhaps the person can express themselves more
>easy in their native language. Maybe you should be as considerate and
>translate the French into English! 
>
>Flame off.
Yea, well, since we don't exactly know how good the person is at english,
maybe we shouldn't make excuses for them.  He knows english enough to read
my message and formulate a reply.

>Since this appears to be an ongoing problem purhaps some organised means
>of providing translations might be considered. Just a thought, it is
>probably too hard to cordinate.

The *only* reason for replying to quoted text in a language that differs
from the quoted text would be because the person is not (in his own
judgement) fluent enough in that language.  If there are other reasons,
I'd like to hear them.  Remember, the point of news is communication, not
to play silly language games.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: rwarren@vax2.concordia.ca (Rosemary A. Warren -- Montreal, Quebec, Canada)
Subject: Re: CRTC & CBC Addresses wanted
Summary: another address for you  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: CBC, ombudsman  
Organization: Concordia University
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:22:00 GMT

In article <rmutton.720971911@cunews>, rmutton@alfred.carleton.ca (Ross Mutton) writes...
>I don't have an address for the CBC ombudsperson ...

i seem to recall tv ads placed by the cbc saying that if you wanted to 
contact the ombudsman, you had to write to the Toronto office:

CBC Ombudsman
P. O. Box 500, Station A
Toronto, Ontario
M5W 1E6

we now return you to regularly scheduled programming.
Rosemary Warren		rwarren@topaz.concordia.ca
Montreal's Favorite Jacksonmaniac !!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: drt@athena.mit.edu (David R Tucker)
Subject: Re: ca-nada
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:58:18 GMT

In article <BxIJrG.1K0@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
|> In article <DRT.92Nov2145449@e51-007-6.mit.edu> drt@athena.mit.edu (David R Tucker) writes:
|> >
|> >OK ... now, why is it that Canada's automobile abbreviation (you know
|> >what I mean ... those white stickers next to the licence plate) is
|> >*C D N*, eh????  (I thought "Dominian of Canada" or "Canadian Dominion"
|> >had been eliminated).  A French citizen and I couldn't find *any* Canadian
|> >who could explain this while we were watching the referendum results.
|> >"uh....gee....ummm....I dunno...."
|> 
|> CanaDiaN.  or CanaDieN.
|> 
|> Either CDN is easier to remember than CND, or CND meant something older
|> (Congregation Notre-Dame is a possibility) and they blocked CND,
|> or the one who choosed the abbreviation was dislexic.
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     
          I like this one!

I.e., "uh....gee....ummm....I dunno...." :-)

This is the sort of interesting guess we found in our Great Quest. 
Unfortunately, no two guesses matched.  Of course we realized "CanaDi(a/e)N" was
a possible explanation, but *WHY* CND was overlooked is still an unanswered
question.  

Anyone out there know?  

(Maybe "CanaDa, true North?"  Hmmm.  "Canucks Dig Nicely?"  Nah ... probably no
good in French.  "Canada De la Neige?"  Doesn't work in English ...)

-drt (_d_rt's _r_eally _t_ired) (Obviously)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
|David R. Tucker		KG2S		     drt@athena.mit.edu|
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|`The State exists simply to promote and to protect the ordinary       |
|happiness of human beings in this life.  A husband and wife chatting  |
|over a fire, a couple of friends having a game of darts in a pub, a   |
|man reading a book in his own room or digging in his own garden---that|
|is what the State is there for.  And unless they are helping to       |
|increase and prolong and protect such moments, all the laws,          |
|parliaments, armies, courts, police, economics, etc., are simply a    |
|waste of time.' -C.S. Lewis					       | 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Music labelling (was So its Clinton/Gore, eh?)
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:48:48 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <Bx9oyy.3FB@Novell.COM>, dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM writes:
> In article <1dc205INNcj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon  
> Livesey) writes:
> > 
> > Two questions:
> > 
> > 	When do they get started on Shakespeare and the Bible?
> > 
> > 	Who decides on the label?   Who writes the label for
> > 	Upton Sinclair's books, Zola, Gorky?   Does the label
> > 	say "Recommended: social comment"? or "Warning: socialist
> > 	propaganda"?
> > 
> > You have to be ready to answer questions like that before you
> > throw words like "truth" around with such gay abandon.
> 
> If you really want to compare labelling music to other
> things like literature or movies, OK: Who complains when a
> book jacket "blurb," a book review, or a parent/school
> teacher/librarian/bookstore employee lets you know what the
> book's about, what kinds of topics it deals with, and how
> the topic's handled?

Bad analogy.   Blurbs don't present themselves as anything
but subjective, plenty of people complain about reviews -
read the letters column of the New York Times Book Review
section sometime - and a list of topics is informative.

I think that if some self-appointed "publisher's group"
started to put warning labels on books, we'd know that for
what it was.

We wouldn't call it outright censorship, so that's a straw
man, but we would certainly wonder about the chilling effect
on authors that it produced.

jon.
From: mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: So its Clinton/Gore, eh?
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:56:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, CA  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: teal

In article <1992Nov5.014752.14169@epas.toronto.edu> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.040321.7175@athena.cs.uga.edu> PRICKRIL@bscf.uga.edu (BEN PRICKRIL) writes:
>>I'm just curious about the general sentiments of Canadians (ALL Canadians)
>>about the results of our elections. Are Canadians pleased to see Clinton
>>and Gore winning the election?
>>
>
>Yep.

Nope. From the point of view of a Canadian, Clinton's record/views of
environment (all talk and lot of negative action), free trade (against
NAFTA; for protectionism), taxation of foreign corporations (wants
foreigners doing business in the U.S. to pay their "share". Is Clinton
so stupid too not know that many of them are Canadian? I doubt it.),
inflationary economic proposals (will trigger higher interest rates in
the U.S., and even higher in Canada).

However, one benefit might be if Clinton's build down of the U.S. armed
forces translated to a defacto recognition of Canada's claims to
sovereignty in the Arctic. If Slick's Navy is crippled to the point
that it can't violate Canadian borders anymore, Canada's case for
sovereignty is strengthened.  Clinton's build down also means that
Canada may decide spend more on foreign interventions to pick up some
of the slack. It is also possible that Clinton won't allow arrests of
people on Canadian soil even though the Supreme Court allows it.

From the point of view of Canadian who resides in the U.S., I find his
health care proposals lacking (as does Consumer Reports).

>Stephanie Fysh

	-mre
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Music labelling (was So its Clinton/Gore, eh?)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:03:23 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <BxAxB7.DtA@Novell.COM>, dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM writes:
> In article <1dcfdgINNcj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon  
> Livesey) writes:
> > 
> > In article <Bx9oyy.3FB@Novell.COM>,  
> dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM writes:
> > > In article <1dc205INNcj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com  
> (Jon  
> > > Livesey) writes:
> > > 
> > > If you really want to compare labelling music to other
> > > things like literature or movies, OK: Who complains when a
> > > book jacket "blurb," a book review, or a parent/school
> > > teacher/librarian/bookstore employee lets you know what the
> > > book's about, what kinds of topics it deals with, and how
> > > the topic's handled?
> > 
> > Bad analogy.   Blurbs don't present themselves as anything
> > but subjective, plenty of people complain about reviews -
> > read the letters column of the New York Times Book Review
> > section sometime - and a list of topics is informative.
> 
> So some people complain; and some appreciate the same things others  
> complain about. (And I don't understand the point behind your mentioning  
> that a list of topics is informative. That's true...and...?)

It's true *and* you asked who complains about it.  The answer
is: because it's informative and has nothing in common with
warning labels on records, few people would have any reason to
complain.   Giving a list of topics in a book, rather than a
subjective warning label, is harmless.  That's why it's a bad
analogy.

> And even if someone started putting "warning labels" on
> books, do you think that'd stop people from buying them?

Other posters have already answered this.   It's not a question
of "stopping people from buying books".   It's a question of
self-censorship by publishers, and a chilling effect on authors.

> > We wouldn't call it outright censorship, so that's a straw
> > man, but we would certainly wonder about the chilling effect
> > on authors that it produced.
> 
> There's been outright censorship of many things, including the
> arts, over  the years (whether imposed by governments, religions,
> school boards, or individuals), and that has not stopped authors
> or whoever from creating.  

How the hell do you know what it has or has not stopped?

Are you falling for the fallacy that since some authors got
published, no authors were prevented from being published?

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: MD04MXS <MD04MXS@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: RE: so its clinton/gore,
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-24608]: music.tcs.tulane.edu
Organization: Your MUSIC System
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:04:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.2163.10106@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:

>After that hatefest of a Republican convention, I'm just glad anyone
>other than Bush was elected.  Anyone who would give that Bukkkanan
>person an open mic on international T.V. deserves to lose.
>
What scares me is that 40% of those who even bothered to go to the
polls VOTED for Bush/Quayle not only DESPITE what happened at the
convention, but (in many cases) BECAUSE of what happened there.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Milstead                  md04mxs@music.tcs.tulane.edu
Tulane University                 "Who am I ? Why am I here ?"
New Orleans, Louisiana            Adm. James Stockdale--Oct 1992
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Music labelling (was So its Clinton/Gore, eh?)
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:04:22 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <1992Nov7.002052.17927@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA writes:
> 
> Anyway, the reality is that warning labels SELL products! Kids want
> music with attitude.  

Too true.  There's an old Soviet joke about two grandmothers.

One says "I'm busy writing out 'War and Peace' on scrap paper."

"Whatever for?" asks the other "You can buy it in bookstores"

"Yes" the first replies, "But my grandson will only read
underground literature."

jon.
From: exupeha@exu.ericsson.se (Petrus Hardianto)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Graduate School
Summary: Computer Science graduate program in Canada
Keywords: Computer Science
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:52:43 GMT
Reply-To: exupeha@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Hi netters,

I am thinking of applying for Computer Sc. Graduate program in
Canadian universities.  Can anyone tell me which school has
a strong program?

Thank you very much,

---

/petrus

===============================================================================
Petrus Hardianto / Ericsson Network Systems / Richardson, Texas 75081
exupeha@exu.ericsson.se  Office: 214.997.4261  Fax: 214.669.8546
===============================================================================
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Music labelling (was So its Clinton/Gore, eh?)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 23:56:06 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <BxBFGM.M0t@Novell.COM>, dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM writes:
> 
> Sometimes a list of topics *does* have something in
> common with "warning labels" if the topics in the list
> truly reflect what's in the book--but sometimes it won't be
> enough because you can't always tell what it's really about
> just by looking at a topic (or chapter title or song
> title).  For example, a song titled "Tuesday Night" could
> be about any number of things that could have happened on a
> Tuesday night--or it might not even have to do with a
> Tuesday night at all. So using a list of topics or scanning
> a book's table of contents or an album's song list is not
> always "objective" or helpful enough to use in your
> decision-making about it.

I think I have lost track of your argument here.   You started
out by asserting that a factual list of contents has "something
in common" with a warning label, and ended up by saying that a
list of contents isn't always helpful.   What's the connection?

> 
> And you keep assuming that these labels will undoubtedly
> be "subjective warning labels" rather than just informative
> labels saying things like "This record contains strong
> profanity," Beastiality themes throughout," "Cop-killing
> encouraged," or "Advice on what to do when your parents are
> out of town on a Tuesday night."

I'm not assuming anything.   I asked when they would get
around to putting the same kind of warning labels on books
as they now put on records.

> > How the hell do you know what it has or has not stopped?
> 
> One could ask you the same question.

I gave examples in my last post of authors who were unable to
get published in the US this century because publishing houses
exercised self-censorship.   Did you miss it?   [I see from
the tail of your posting that you didn't miss it, so why the
question?]

> 
> > Are you falling for the fallacy that since some authors got
> > published, no authors were prevented from being published?
> 
> No, I'm not. I said it has never stopped anyone from *creating*.
> Just as  one has the right to create, so does one have the right
> to refuse to publish another's creation. That's not censorship;
> .....

Oh, here we go.   The great and the good can set the standards,
and as long as the government isn't involved, it's not censorship.

Well, that argument is quite popular in the US, but in the rest
of the world we recognize concepts like self-censorship.   Not
all the world is US-shaped, believe it or not.

jon.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:8446 can.politics:9561
From: root@catnix.UUCP (Wonder user (M.Simond))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Labelling (was: Quebec)
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:11:38 GMT
Organization: Rhinoceros, chargez!


thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
| clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:
|
| >Labelling laws are not there to promote national bilingualism.  They
| >are there to enforce fair and uniform advertising on consumer goods.
>
> However, it is a symbol of Canada's language duality.  Because it
> entails only small sacrifices (translation costs, and the labour of
> rotating packages up to 180 degrees), all Canadians should accept it.

In fact, I believe it would cost more to have both bilingual and
unilingual labelling. 

Just for fun, I counted the number of words to translate on a box of
Cheerios Apple-Cinnamon cereals : 381 words. That is a bit more than
one page of text (double line spacing, 10 characters per inch printing,
1 inch left margin, 1 inch right margin, which averages to 250 words 
per page).

Given the current per word fee (depending on whether you are a free-lance
translator or a large translation agency), the cost for those 381 words
could range from $49.53 (at $0.13/word - and I'm quite sure some people
would do it for less) to $114.30 (at $0.30/word - the most a translation
agency would charge for this kind of text, the average being $0.22/word,
that is $83.82). Divided by the number of such cereal boxes sold in
Canada, the translation price is quite low. Even if only 1000 consumers
would eat that cereal, translation cost would amount to less than
5 cents or, in the worst case to 11.43 cents per box. Now, my feeling is
that more than 1000 people eat one box of Apple-Cinnamon Cheerios per
year.

Another thing is that those translations are probably done in-house.
Which means the price is nearer $0.09 ($28,000/year; 6000 words/week,
which is very low by today's standards, the average asked being between
8000 and 12,000 words/week) to approximately $0.13 per word (at
$40,000/year and 6000 word/week (note that today, at this salary,
you either are a freelance working 6-7 days a week, 10-12 hours/day
(unless you are very famous and have others do the shitty work for
you), or what is labelled as a post-editor/translator with many many
years of experience). And, if done in-house, you substract from those
prices the parts that do not have to be translated over and over
(like the ingredients list), you can even lower the overall cost.

Think about it for 1 minute : it would probably cost much more
to print two sets of labels. So please cut the crap about the
price of translation. It's high cost is in peoples' minds, not
in reality.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Labelling (was: Quebec)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:25:13 GMT

viking@bmerh66.bnr.ca (Harold Henriksen) writes:
>
>Why would anyone think Quebec is a big enough sales market to the typical 
>US manufacturer to warrant French-English bilingual labelling.  That it 
>happens is due to CANADIAN government policy, not economic justification.

We just received a Sun IPC workstation and the box and documentation
came in four languages: English, French, Japanese and German.  It was
shipped FOB California to us here in NYC.

A market of six+ million customers is enough; IBM's operation in Quebec
is primarily francophone, and even operations with a high English content
like BNR's Montreal lab on Nun's Island is driven to french usage due to
the market.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Jesus Saves!
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Gretzky gets the rebound -
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			he shoots, he scores!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada