From: ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz)
Subject: Re: Yet another sleepless night
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:12:25 GMT

Marie writes ...
>Aren't most of the above "abuses of men" primarily inflicted on men
>by men?  I think many women would, for instance, prefer it if men
>were less obsessed by sports.  And many women would prefer if
>"their man" didn't like to fight.  Etc..  What "abuses of men"
>are inflicted on men by *women*?

*sigh* I think you missed the point.  I wasn't saying that all these things werethe fault of women, I was saying that all of these things were the fault of
traditional society.  And, as a side-note, I don't think that being male in a
'male-dominated' society has helped me particularly ... at least, I am often
looked down upon for my actions and opinions, since they don't match up with
either of modern society's fundamental trends.  There are people who defend
traditional society, either because they benefit or because they are brain-
washed.  And there are people who attack it and anyone who would supposedly
benefit from it, on the grounds that they are part of the system.

If a person is white or black, should they bear the responsibility for the
actions of all other whites or blacks?  If a person is male or female, should
they bear the responsibility for all other males or females.  If a person is
a young German (born after WWII) are they responsible for the holocaust?
I think not.  

Traditional society may have been male-dominated, but I do not feel any guilt
for that; it wasn't my doing.  And it must be noted that the few female-
dominated societies that occured through history were generally just as bad ...

I don't think oppression is the fault of being male.  I think it's the fault of
being human.                                                       

>>Men lose over 90% of custody fights.
>
>>If in the course of such a fight, a woman accuses a man of child abuse, she
>>      is automatically believed, and he is put in jail (and loses all chance
>>      of getting the children unless the woman is obviously mentally ill).
>
>Aren't these a penalty of a male dominated system?

You're saying that if women dominated the courts and the legal system, men
would win about half of the custody fights?  Can you give me the reasoning
behind this, or did you mean something else?

>>If a woman reads Harlequin romances, she is fine.  If a man reads Playboy, he
>>      is politically incorrect (and generally considered scum).  For that
>>      matter, if a woman reads Playgirl, she is fine.
>
>Do they put pictures in Harlequins, these days?  But that's beside
>the point.  I don't *know* any women who by Playgirl.  As a woman,
>I can't understand  the point men see in reading Playboy, but
>I am more inclined to think bad thoughts about the women who
>pose, rather than the men who look at them (perhaps wrongly).

Why think bad thoughts about either?  I'd like to discuss this, probably
through email.  Pornography is another of those inflammable issues ...

>Although it's true that men are often abused by this male-
>dominated society, it is hard to sympathize with the oppression
>of men by themselves, as opposed to oppression of women by men.
>I think these are two different things.  The men are in the
>position of power, and currently have the most power to make
>changes.
>
>--Marie

I just cannot think that it is any better for a man to victimize another man
than to victimize a woman.  If the society abuses both men and women, isn't
it the fault of the society and those that control it (who in this case 
happen to be men) rather than the fault of those being victimized who happen
to be the same sex as the oppressors?  I don't see how my gender makes me
responsible for the behavior of others of my gender, good or bad.

When I read of a great scientific discovery by a man, I don't think "That makes
me proud to be male."  When I read about a rape in the paper, I don't think
"That makes me ashamed to be a male."  Instead I think "Good job!" or "Too
bad someone didn't blow him away!" (respectively, of course!  The reverse
would be really sick ...)

Marie, I'm male.  I admit it.  Can we still be friends?

- Abner
Newsgroups: alt.callahans