From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Neuron (really networking NeXT vs. Mac)
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.174420.15689@cs.yale.edu> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu writes:
[ ]
>
>X-Windows can be had *free* (public domain versions), or
>with commercial support from Pencom (and others) for $249.

The free version is not supported and isn't as nice as either Pencom's or
the Mac's one.
>
>We have had no "set up" problems with TeX on the NeXT, and
>I haven't seen many flamefests about it in these newsgroups.

I indicated using Postscript fonts with NeXT TeX is not as easy as
using them with Textures. NeXT TeX is very nice. Nevertheless I do
know many people who are TeX "fiends" who would argue that Textures
is the better product. I'm no TeX expert but setting up TeX on the
Mac is trivial. Moreover it does continuous previewing.
>
>> >Networking PC's requires extra-cost hardware and
>> >software, and I've heard plenty of horror stories about
>> >various PC network "solutions".
>> 
>> The hardware costs with software work out to under $400.
>> No horror stories. It "just works" to quote someone.  
>
>I'm glad it works for you, but that doesn't change the
>fact the many users have had many troubles with various
>PC networking solutions, and that many of them cost
>thousands of dollars.

Well people have trouble networking all kinds of things. I don't 
want to defend PC's. I was simply pointing out that the Mac gets
along well with them.
>
>> >Networking the Next requires a different investment of
>> >time and knowledge depending upon your needs.  It can be as
>> >easy as attaching cables, powering up, and letting the
>> >bundled tools autoconfig the new host.  Or, it can involve
>> >some knowledge of unix networking. 
>> 
>> At the moment it seems to require some Unix
>> administration knowledge. The NeXt, in general, seems
>> far harder to use than the Mac when something goes wrong. 
>
>It requires *no* more knowledge than any machine that you
>wish to place on the same network.  The same level of
>network information and administration would be required
>by any machine: PC, Mac, unix box, etc.
>
>The NeXT Netinfo system can make certain network tasks
>much easier than other solutions.  This is not to say
>Netinfo doesn't have other problems.

I just don't agree. Netinfo...please. Maintaining and setting
up a network of Mac's and PC's is trivial. Even I can do it.
After reading up the Next administration material I just would
find it hard to network the Next into my little network of Mac's
a LW and soon a PC. It takes someone with an interest in Unix.
I have none.
>
[ ]
>> 
>> Well A/UX 3.0 is multi-user, multitasking. Apple has
>> reasonable prices for those who want colour. This is no
>> longer the 50's. Why should we be paying over $5000 for
>> colour on a Cube? Mach is not really used a great deal on the
>> NeXT. If it were my 3 slots on the Cube would be doing
>> something.
>
>You certainly don't get the *same* color for the money on
>those Macs!  That's 8-bit color for those prices, and
>small displays. The NeXT's lowest color machine offered
>is 12+4 bits with 17" displays: Apples to Oranges. 

The Quadra comes with 24bit color. The 8/24 card costs around
$500. The ND costs...And you still don't know if it will be supported
into the future.
>
>I agree that NeXT overcharges for the cube.

That's an understatement.    
>
>I agree that Mach should support multiple CPU boards in
>the cube.  However, the promise of multiprocessing is
>certainly not the only reason for NeXT to use mach.

Not the only one but it's an important one.
>
>> cost of colour is too high, the OD and ND( the reasons for
>> NeXT to exist in a sense) have been dealt with in an odd
>> way,etc...
>
>I agree that the OD and ND have been dealt with in an
>odd way, and I and others have discussed (and yes, flamed
>about) these issues to many NeXT folks.  However, they
>are certainly not the only reasons for NeXT to exist.
>NeXT has and continues to innovate in other important
>areas.

When I indicated that the OD and the ND were important it was in
the context of having a sensual computer. There's no need for
yet another Unix workstation just because it's black. The NeXT
has/had great promise for working with people, not against them, and
in a way which conveyed more human information. As it is, setting 
Sun's as your target competition is giving up on a dream. You might
as well just be in the business of getting higher mips,etc...

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA