HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:15:35 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Dunkle <jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Vacuum pump inquiry

Note: dual posting on .aviation.ifr .aviation.owning

Asking for net wisdom on the following regarding vacuum pumps:

Club has C-152 and two C-172s.
Each has a manifold tap alt. vacuum system.
Each currently has the same Sigma Tec vacuum pump.

Concept:  Put the vacuum pumps on a "preventive maintenance" replacement
program every 600 hours, rather than waiting for failures.  These planes
are flown IFR frequently and, despite the alt. vac. system, we'd be 
more "comfortable" with time changes rather than operating the pumps to
failure.  Our vac pumps do fail between engine overhauls, as I suspect
most folks do.  (Is that a true assumption?)

Information wanting to confirm:

Our understanding is that Sigma Tec does not make available "rebuild
kits" to the field for their vac. pumps, while some other vendors do. 
True?  Any net experience rebuilding your own vac pumps? 
Thoughts/expereince with specific brands?

Methods for the "PM" program

1.  Stay with Sigma Tec pumps and replace them at 600 hours.
2.  Evolve the three pumps at the next changeout to a brand which has
"rebuild kits" for sale, then refurbish them ourselves (we have 2 A&Ps
in the club) at 600 hours.

Requesting comments, critiques, and especially specific net experience
with vacuum pumps.

Thanks
Jeff Dunkle<jd5f@andrew.cmu.edu>
From: joell@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Joel Larner)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:26:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Opinions on CHT kits/scanners for Cessna single
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning

One thing not mentioned in the previous responses: the Insight GEM
also displays CHT for each cylinder along with EGT.  This instrument
is great.  Like all other things in a plane, you should know what
the instrument looks like during normal configurations, such as
during takeoff role.  In N182H, I glance at the GEM during the
takeoff role to ensure all 6 cylinders are running well.  I feel this
gives me one more assurance that the engine is running well before
I leave the ground.

> An aquaintance with a GEM (in a 172) suggested that one real nice usage
> of the device was 'seeing' carb icing before it causes roughness. Since
> carb icing is a common cause of engine failure, he was convinced that it
> was worth the cost/panel space.

How would you detect carb ice on the GEM.  Does it lower/raise the EGT of
all cylinders, or even one cylinder enough to cause the GEM to flash?  We
have a carb ice detector in N182H (and it has been real useful while in
the soup) and I have never detected much of a change on the GEM.

This would be another good technique to add to my bag of tricks if you can
describe how to use the GEM to indicate carb ice!!!

-------------------------------------------------------
Joel Larner - Hewlett Packard, Greeley Storage Division
CAP SAR Pilot            email:  joell@hpgrjq.gr.hp.com
                           CAP:  Pikes Peak 293
                    In The Air:  N182H

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: ege@max.fiu.edu (Dr. Raimund K. Ege)
Subject: Re: Leasebacks & tax considerations
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:30:46 GMT
Keywords: registration issues

apart from the tax considerations are there other issues that affect
the paperwork/cost when an airplane is put into a leaseback (rental) arrangement:

I understand that maintenance requirements differ (annual vs. 100h).
How does it affect the insurance coverage and its price ?
Does the registration need to change ?
Where is it stated that the airplane is "for rent" or "private use" ?
What is necessary to go from one state to the other ?

Any clarification is appreciated.

-- 
Raimund K. Ege                             School of Computer Science
                                             Florida Int'l University
ege@scs.fiu.edu           (305) 348-3381              University Park
ege@servax.bitnet     FAX (305) 348-3549              Miami, FL 33199
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Leasebacks & tax considerations
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:24:26 GMT

John Pettitt covers one of the important details on passive v.s. active:
Who set the price? As stated, if the FBO tells you what you will be paid
and then decides what to charge the renters, then YOU are not the party
renting to the user.

The other important point is indeed active participation. To survive an
audit with your deductions intact you must have the records that prove
you spent a substantial amount of time tending to your business. As others
have posted, if you turn it over to the FBO and collect a check, it IS a
passive activity.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov
2838Q, no longer in leaseback

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Info on Maule MX-7?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 23:09:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.210032.5414@ccad.uiowa.edu> yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:
>The latest issue of trade-a-plane has an ad for a maule mx-7 at $45K.
>I called the number and the sales rep said they are selling a limited
>number of airplanes w/o avionics at that prices.  He claimed the
>performance of the plane is similar to an 172.
>
>So I'm thinking, $45 + $10 for avionics and radios = C172 performance.
>Something sounds too good to be true ... any ideas or experiences
>with the plane ???

Just from reading. Maules have metal wings and fabric covered (fiberglass)
fuselages. Maule owners report that the cruise speeds are lower than
advertised. The Mx-7 has a bigger engine than any stock 172, so it's
thirstier with about the same size tanks. Maules are STOL aircraft; TO
over 50' obstacle is around 500' (versus over 1,300 for a 172).

Maules are reportedly noisier and ride slightly rougher than 172s. Other
performance (load, speed, etc.) is within the same ballpark as a 172.
Access to the plane is much better than a 172; essentially the entire
right side of the cockpit is door.

Up to the M-6, Maules had one of the most poorly designed panels from a
safety viewpoint, according to the NSTB. One big flaw was the use of
similar knobs for all controls. They may have fixed this with the 7
series. The instruments tended to look like antiques; there was a running
joke at one time that B.D. Maule got a good deal on a lot of instruments
back in the 40s and hadn't run out yet.

Another thing I've heard is that you'll either love it or hate it - it's
a unique aircraft.

Either "Flying" or "AOPA Pilot" ran an article on them some time ago.
You might check back issues. I think it was about the time they introduced
the tricycle gear model.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | I'd rather fight an entire army than battle an
                    | idle rumor.
                    |              Major General Smedley Butler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rd@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dick Dowell)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:59:40 GMT
Subject: 1/10 share in 182?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning

If you're looking for a partnership in a Cessna 182 based in San Carlos, CA,
a friend is trying to sell his 1/10 share.  Contact him for particulars at

	       Chris Zanette
	       (415) 595-3116 (daytime phone)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Leasebacks & tax considerations
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:43:54 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1993Jan21.070012.6907@StarConn.com>, jpp@StarConn.com (John 
Pettitt) writes:
> They key to the WVFC setup (as my accountant explained it to me) is that
> WVFC chrges me $5/hr for acting as my agent in leasing the plane to
> members.  If they paid me $57/hr for the plane and then charged the
> members $62 it would be passive but since I charge the members $62 and
> pay them $5 for collecting it on my behalf its active.  Confused ? I
> thought you would be.  Still the net result is that an IRS employee has
> told me that WVFC leasebacks have survived audit.
> 
> I now have the complete 1992 figures for N81034 - if anybody is
> interested (and subject to me talking to skip who owns the other half) I
> will post them as an example leaseback.
> 
> BTW if you think leasbacks are complicated try looking at the UK/US dual
> taxation rules  :-(


Incidently, and I don't know if this has any effect on the situation,
WVFC is a non-profit corporation and social club.  As a result WVFC does
not make any profit on the rental per se...  the $5.00 covers WVFC's
expenses for scheduling, etc... . somewhat different from the situation
at an FBO.





Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: earlb@ssd.intel.com (Earl Brabandt)
Subject: Re: Info on Maule MX-7?
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:50:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.230920.25672@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
>
>Just from reading. Maules have metal wings and fabric covered (fiberglass)
>fuselages. 

I don't think Maule uses the fiberglass Razorback covering at the factory 
anymore, but I assume it's still available for recovers as an STC.  I 
don't know what covering process the factory currently uses--check the recent
AOPA article or call Maule.

>The Mx-7 has a bigger engine than any stock 172, so it's
>thirstier with about the same size tanks. 

The MX-7 that's being offered new at 45K has a 160 HP Lyc O-320.  Newer 
172s also have a 160 HP derivitave of this engine.  I would expect cruise 
speeds to be in the same ballpark as the 160 HP 172 on the same fuel.

Earl Brabandt
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Vacuum pump inquiry
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 13:12:28 GMT

In article <8fNhxLO00Uh784vmkm@andrew.cmu.edu> Jeffrey Dunkle <jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Asking for net wisdom on the following regarding vacuum pumps:
>
>Club has C-152 and two C-172s.
>Each has a manifold tap alt. vacuum system.
>Each currently has the same Sigma Tec vacuum pump.
>
>Information wanting to confirm:
>Methods for the "PM" program
>1.  Stay with Sigma Tec pumps and replace them at 600 hours.

I bought a Sigma Tek Gold Seal for a false sense of security...it
fractured its tiny drive shaft and failed at 200 hours.

>2.  Evolve the three pumps at the next changeout to a brand which has
>"rebuild kits" for sale, then refurbish them ourselves (we have 2 A&Ps
>in the club) at 600 hours.
>
Sounds like a better deal, however with the alternate vacuum source
available most folks would just let the pumps go to failure.
If the VACUUM FAILURE red light has been installed with the alt
vacuum system in such a way that it glares in the pilot's face
(i.e., within the primary instrument scan), it's pretty hard to
ignore.  (same goes for a carb ice detector light).

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: rcg@delphi.dseg.ti.com (bob gibbons)
Subject: Re: Polare for LS-3a wanted!
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:17:29 GMT

email to "jon@dikas.no" bounced, so I will post directly.

I believe Dick Johnson published polars for both the LS-3 and LS-3a in
the mid-80's. They were published in SOARING magazine. If you do not
have acccess to this mag, drop me a note and I will try to locate the
polars in my old issues.

--
Bob Gibbons				Texas Instruments
Internet: rcg@delphi.dseg.ti.com	Dallas, TX
From: gps19@herald.usask.ca (Gregory P. Siemens)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: NACA airfoil data request
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:33:31 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

[ Article crossposted from sci.aeronautics ]
[ Author was Gregory P. Siemens ]
[ Posted on 15 Jan 1993 17:21:28 GMT ]



C
Does anyone out there have the raw data for NACA airfoils
(or any others).  Data I need is Lift and Drag co-efficients for any
angle of attack.  I have a book with several NACA airfoils in it
(Abbott) but it contains only the graphs of this data and not the data
itself.  I need the data in a form that could be typed into a data file
or read into a program as a data file.  I would very much appreciate
this data as we are trying to compile a database of Cd/Cl vs. Angle of
attack for a large number of airfoils(not just NACA).  If you know of
someone who has this data or a way of getting it please mail me with the
info.

			Thanks in advance.
From: flanagan@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Dick Flanagan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: SSA National Convention
Summary: Anyone else going?
Keywords: SSA National Convention sailplanes
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:31:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Libelle Productions, Minden, Nevada, USA

My wife and I will be there for the entire week so I can attend the CFI
Renewal Clinic.  Will there be any other net-pilots there?  Any chance
of a NWFI during the convention?!?

Dick
-- 
Dick Flanagan, CFII-G                               Grob Speed Astir "DY"
Libelle Productions, Minden, NV                     MCI Mail: 412-2140
Voice/FAX:  +1 702 782 8644                         GEnie:    FLANAGAN
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: HAHLLUND@FINABO.ABO.FI (Hans Ahllund Inf)
Subject: USA WC-team info wanted !
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:08:28 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


 USA World Championships in Borl{nge Info Wanted
-------------------------------------------------

Information about the US gliding team members attending the next WC's in
Borl{nge Sweden would be greatly appreciated. In return I could give info
about the Finnish team, and the competition site. 
Here comes one hot tip ; review ditching procedures. An estimate is that at
least one ship will be forced to land in a lake. The competition area is 
according to european or nordic standards rather hostile to out-landings.
There are reasonably good fields with at least 25 kilometers spacing, and
smaller , about 150 meter long fields that you can land uphill in, if the 
situation gets really bad. Crop dusting strips are kept usable and good 
enough for 15 meter ships in the bad areas too, but you can not land in these
with an open class ship. Information about these strips and their placings
are given in the competition. A good thing is though that there are good
fields within 20 kilometers distance from the field in the final glide 
direction, that is west of the field. 
I suspect that the team members know about these things already if they
have been at the pre-competition last year.
The Finnish team could not take part in the pre-competition because of the
fact that we had our own nationals , with elections to the WC just before
the pre-competition last year.This has been a problem in Finland and is hoped
to be solved now with the fact that the WC team is elected two years before
the next WC's, that is election this year for the 1995 WC's.

Anyway, if somebody could be kind enough to send me info about the team,as
how many pilots pilots in each class,what planes they fly, the pilots' 
backgrounds , previous placings in competitions and flight time and so on,
and if you dare to  say, some hint about what placings are expected from the 
team, and maybe what tactics they intend to use for example team flying or
individual flying. I can be open about these things too, if necessary.
And of interest would also be information about the financing of their trip.
I hope someone has the time and interest to cooperate on this issue..


                                                  Hans Ahllund
                                                  Finland
                                       email: HAHLLUND@finabo.abo.fi
From: guy.byars@ssa.org (Guy Byars) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: SSA BBS INTERNET ACCESS
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:36:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Soaring Society of America's BBS (513)-871-7720
Reply-To: guy.byars@ssa.org (Guy Byars) 


  Since many of you have been asking "Is there any way to access the BBS
stuff via Internet?", I have a solution.

  I am working on upgrading the BBS to accept Internet email file
requests and then email out the desired file to the requestor.  A file
containing all available files will also be available.  But, before I
spend more time on it, I must ask the following:

  Is anyone interested in such a capability?

  Is just text files enough, or is binary file access needed
using (UUENCODE & UUDECODE)?

  Any thoughts?

                                                gfb (11)
                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter Cohen)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Soaring Lessons in NE
Originator: peterco@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:27:39 GMT

Thanks to everyone who replied.  I can't believe how voluminous and quick
the responses were!  Obviously there are some really enthusiastic folks
here!  I've decided to go the commercial route for the moment- just to get
a taste (my main experience with aircraft is with commercial jets- just
like most people)- so we'll see what happens.  Thanks again!


Peter Cohen (peterco@eff.org) wrote:

: I'm really interested in soarers, and I've seen (occasionally) adverts for
: lessons and passenger flights in the New England area (in various local
: periodicals).  I haven't seen any lately, and I'm really curious if any
: netters are familiar with any areas around Boston or New England that
: offers such lessons.

: Please email me with any and all leads.
: -- 
: +-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
: | Peter A. Cohen  |   No, I don't reflect my employer's opinions.  |
: | peterco@eff.org | Heck!  My employer doesn't even know I'm here! |
: +-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
-- 
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Peter A. Cohen  |   No, I don't reflect my employer's opinions.  |
| peterco@eff.org | Heck!  My employer doesn't even know I'm here! |
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Subject: Re: US Soaring prices
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:01:41 GMT

There is a range of prices depending on where you fly. Clubs
are cheaper but you will have to put in duty days. Commercial
operations cost more but you will fly whenever you want to
with little waiting.

Three commercial gliderports I flew at this year had tow prices
of $19.00 to $30.00 to tow to 3,000'. Rental ranged from $23.00
to $33.00 per hour. Instruction ranges from $15.00 to $20.00
an hour. A lesson usually lasts about 20 to 30 minutes. It will 
take about 30 lessons to solo. After that you need to log 7 hours
of flight (10 flights min.) to take the private test.

The cheapest commercial gliderport I have flown at is Carolina
Soaring at Louisberg N.C. (near Raleigh). A lesson costs about
$35.00.
From: postigli@girtab.usc.edu (Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: SSA National Convention
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:02:12 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Keywords: SSA National Convention sailplanes
From: lorne@peche2.ensta.fr (Ivan Lorne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: FRENCH STUDENT going to fly in USA. HELP.
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:06:28 GMT
Organization: ENSTA (French University).
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: peche2.ensta.fr
Keywords: Learning SC Licence


I 'd like to get my FLYING LICENCE.


I'm a FRENCH student going for a training period in networks field (from march to july) at GreenVille SOUTH-CAROLINA.
In France, getting Flying licence is very expensive. 
I was said that it wasn't in the USA.

Could yo help me in answering those few questions:


1) WHAT is the average PRICE of :

	- An Hour of fly.
	- A Flying Licence.

2) HOW LONG does it take to get your licence ?

3) WHERE Could I fly near GreenVille ?

4) WHO can give me MORE SPECIFIC INFORMATIONS ?


Thanks a lot ! And see you soon in the Air !
	Space Rabbit.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: fowler@cs.rochester.edu (Rob Fowler)
Subject: Re: Thermalling technique revisited -- a philosophers' stone?
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:34:36 GMT

In article <1kkagd6@Unify.Com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
>In article <11752@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, colin@cs.uq.oz.au (Colin Millerchip) writes:
>> The technique that I'm now referring to involves a nose-up attitude,
>> with top rudder ...
>
>	In other words, fly a slipping circle.
>
>... (which I assume is to speed the inner wing, and thus
>> avoid a stall). ...
>
>	It only speeds up the inner wing when you're increasing the
>	yaw input -- in a steady state turn it makes virtually no
>	difference in speed (translating to AOA) on the inner wing.
>

On the other hand, in a slip any wing dihedral will cause the leading
wing, i.e. on the side from which the relative wind comes, to have a
higher AOA than the trailing wing.  (For disbelievers, consider a
plane with level wings on the ground in a crosswind.  The crosswind
catches the upwind wing more on its bottom and the downwind wing more
on the top.  That's why you've gotta do what you've gotta do on
crosswind takeoffs and landings. It's also why a lot of aileron is
necessary to maintain a slip, to compensate for the lift differential
between the wings.)

As to technique in thermalling, someone would have to present either a
really strong analytic model or strong empirical evidence to convince
me either that 
(1) somehow the increased profile drag from uncoordinated
flight is more than compensated for by decreased induced drag and
increased vertical component of lift from lower bank angle turns in a
stronger part of a thermal, or
(2) in a tight turn that the effects of a small radius somehow change
the effective definition of "coordinated flight" and that one should
fly tight circles with the yaw string pointing to one side or the
other. 

Until someone can convince me of that I'll continue to fly as
coordinated as I can and I'll use whatever instantaneous control
inputs necessary to do so.

-- Rob Fowler (fowler@cs.rochester.edu)
From: niklasg@csd.uu.se (Niklas Gunnarsson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Hawaiian Paragliding
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:59:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Science Department
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pyton.csd.uu.se

Hello !

I'm thinking of moving to the Big Island of Hawaii to study for a few years.
Is there anybody out there who knows about the Paragliding conditions on this
island , or on any other Hawaiian island ?

/Niklas Gunnarsson , Department of Computer Science , Uppsala , Sweden