From: barrett@cc.gatech.edu (James Barrett)
Subject: GORE/QUAYLE/STOCKDALE: VP debate text (10/13) part 1/2
Reply-To: barrett@cc.gatech.edu (James Barrett)
Organization: Georgia Tech College of Computing
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:13:46 GMT

  The text of the vice presidential debate from Atlanta on Tuesday,
Oct 13:
  HAL BRUNO:  Good evening from Atlanta and welcome to the vice
presidential debate sponsored by the Nonpartisan Commission on
Presidential Debates.  It's being held here in the Theater for the
Arts on the campus of Georgia Tech.  I'm Hal Bruno from ABC News and
I'm going to be moderating tonight's debate.  The participants are
Republican Vice President Dan Quayle.
  (Applause)
  Democratic Senator Al Gore.
  (Applause)
  And retired Vice Admiral James Stockdale, who is the vice
presidential nominee--
  (Applause)
  --for independent candidate Ross Perot.
  (Applause)
  Now, the ground rules for tonight's debate.  Each candidate will
have 2 minutes for an opening statement.  I will then present the
issues to be discussed.  For each topic, the candidates will have a
minute and 15 seconds to respond.  Then this will be followed by a 5
minute discussion period in which they can ask questions of each other
if they so choose.
  Now, the order of response has been determined by a drawing and
we'll rotate with each topic.  At the end of the debate, each
candidate will have 2 minutes for a closing statement.
  Our radio and TV audience should know that the candidates were given
an equal allocation of auditorium seats for their supporters.  So I'd
like to ask the audience here in the theater to please refrain from
applause or any partisan demonstration once the debate is under way
because it takes time away from the candidates.  So with that plea
from your moderator let's get started.
  And we'll turn first to Senator Gore for his opening statement.
  SENATOR GORE:  Good evening.  It's great to be here in Atlanta for
this debate where America will be showcases to the world when the 1996
Olympics are put on right here.  It's appropriate because in a real
sense, our discussion this evening will be about what kind of nation
we want to be 4 years from now.  It's also a pleasure to be with my 2
opponents this evening.  Admiral Stockdale, may I say it's a special
honor to share this stage with you.  Those of us who served in Vietnam
looked at you as a national hero even before you were awarded the
Congressional Medal of Honor.
  And Mr. Vice President--Dan, if I may--it was 16 years ago that you
and I went to the Congress on the very first day together.  I'll make
you a deal this evening.  If you don't try to compare George Bush to
Harry Truman, I won't compare you to Jack Kennedy.
  (Applause)
  Harry Truman--
  VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE:  Do you remember the last time someone
compared themselves to Jack Kennedy?  Do you remember what they said?
  GORE:  Harry Truman, it's worth remembering, assumed the presidency
when Franklin Roosevelt died here in Georgia--only one of many
occasions when fate thrust a vice president into the Oval Office in a
time of crisis.  It's something to think about during the debate this
evening.  But our real discussion is going to be about change.  Bill
Clinton and I stand for change because we don't believe our nation can
stand 4 more years of what we've had under George Bush and Dan Quayle.
  When the recession came they were like a deer caught in the
headlights--paralyzed into inaction, blinded to the suffering and pain
of bankruptcies and people who were unemployed.  We have an
environmental crisis, a health insurance crisis, substandard
education.  It is time for a change.
  Bill Clinton and I want to get our country moving forward again, put
our people back to work, and create a bright future for the US of
America.
  BRUNO:  Okay, the next statement will be from Vice President Quayle.
  QUAYLE:  Well, thank you, Senator Gore, for reminding me about my
performance in the 1988 vice presidential debate.  This is 1992, Bill
Clinton is running against President George Bush.  There are 2 things
that I'm going to stress during this debate:  one, Bill Clinton's
economic plan and his agenda will make matters much, much worse--he
will raise your taxes, he will increase spending, he will make
government bigger, jobs will be lost; second, Bill Clinton does not
have the strength nor the character to be president of the US.
  (Applause)
  Let us look at the agendas.  President Bush wants to hold the line
on taxes, Bill Clinton wants to raise taxes.  President Bush is for a
balanced budget amendment, Bill Clinton is opposed to it.  We want to
reform the legal system because it's too costly, Bill Clinton wants
the status quo.  We want to reform the health care system, Bill
Clinton wants to ration health care.  Bill Clinton wants to empower
government, we want to empower people.
  In St.  Louis, Missouri, in June of this year, Bill Clinton said
this:  "America is the mockery of the world." He is wrong.
  At some time during these next 4 years there is going to be a
crisis--there will be an international crisis.  I can't tell you where
it's going to be, I can't even tell you the circumstances--but it will
happen.  We need a president who has the experience, who has been
tested, who has the integrity and qualifications to handle the crisis.
The president has been tested, the president has the integrity and the
character.  The choice is yours.
  You need to have a president you can trust.  Can you really trust
Bill Clinton?
  BRUNO:  Admiral Stockdale, your opening statement, please, sir?
  ADMIRAL STOCKDALE:  Who am I?  Why am I here?
  (Laughter and applause)
  I'm not a politician--everybody knows that.  So don't expect me to
use the language of the Washington insider.  Thirty-seven years in the
Navy, and only one of them up there in Washington.  And now I'm an
academic.
  The centerpiece of my life was the Vietnam War.  I was there the day
it started.  I led the first bombing raid against North Vietnam.  I
was there the day it ended, and I was there for everything in between.
Ten years in Vietnam, aerial combat, and torture.  I know things about
the Vietnam War better than anybody in the world.  I know some things
about the Vietnam War better than anybody in the world.
  And I know how governments, how American governments can be--can be
courageous, and how they can be callow.  And that's important.  That's
one thing I'm an insider on.
  I was the leader of the underground of the American pilots who were
shot down in prison in North Vietnam.  You should know that the
American character displayed in those dungeons by those fine men was a
thing of beauty.
  I look back on those years as the beginning of wisdom, learning
everything a man can learn about the vulnerabilities and the strengths
that are ours as Americans.
  Why am I here tonight?  I am here because I have in my brain and in
my heart what it takes to lead America through tough times.
  BRUNO:  Thank you, Admiral.  I thought since you're running for vice
president, that we ought to start off by talking about the vice
presidency itself.  The vice president presides over the Senate, he
casts a deciding vote in case of a tie, but his role really depends on
the assignments that are given to him by the president.  However, if a
president should die in office, or is unable to serve for any other
reason, the vice president automatically becomes president, and that
has happened 5 times in this century.
  So the proposition I put on the table for you to discuss is this.
  What role would each of you like to play as vice president, what
areas interest you, and what are your qualifications to serve as
president, if necessary?
  In the case of Vice President Quayle, who we're starting with, I
suppose you'd tell us the role that you did play in the first term and
which you'd like to do in a 2nd term.  Go ahead, sir.
  QUAYLE:  Well, then I won't give you that answer.
  Qualifications.  I've been there, Hal.  I've done the job.  I've
been tested.  I've been vice president for 4 years.  Senator Gore
referred to us being elected to the Congress together in 1976.  I've
done the job.  I've done many things for the president.
  But even as vice president you never know exactly what your role is
going to be from time to time, and let me just give you an example of
where I was tested under fire and in a crisis.
  President Bush was flying to Malta in 1989 to meet with President
Gorbachev.  It was the first meeting between President Bush and
President Gorbachev.  They had known each other before.
  A coup broke out in the Philippines.  I had to go to the situation
room.  I had to assemble the president's advisers.  I talked to
President Aquino.  I made the recommendation to the president.  The
president made the decision, the coup was suppressed, democracy
continued in the Philippines, the situation was ended.
  I've been there.  And I'll tell you one other thing that qualifies
you for being president--and it's this, Hal-- you've got to stand up
for what you believe in.  And nobody has ever criticized me for not
having strong beliefs.
  (Applause.)
  BRUNO:  Admiral Stockdale.
  STOCKDALE:  My association with Mr.  Perot is a very personal one
and as I have stood in and finally taken his running mate position, he
has granted me total autonomy.  I don't take advantage of it, but I am
sure that he would make me a partner in decision, in making decisions
about the way to handle health care, the way to get this economy back
on its feet again, in every way.
  I have not had the experience of these gentlemen, but--to be any
more specific--but I know I have his trust, and I intend to act in a
way to keep that situation alive.  Thank you.
  BRUNO:  Senator Gore.
  GORE:  Bill Clinton understands the meaning of the words "teamwork"
and "partnership." If we're successful in our efforts to gain your
trust and lead this nation, we will work together to put our country
back on the right track again.  The experience that George Bush and
Dan Quayle have been talking about includes the worst economic
performance since the Great Depression.  Unemployment is up, personal
income is down, bankruptcies are up, housing starts are down.  How
long can we continue with trickle-down economics when the record of
failure is so abundantly clear?
  Discussions of the vice presidency tend sometimes to focus on the
crisis during which a vice president is thrust into the Oval Office,
and indeed, one-3rd of the vice presidents who have served have been
moved into the White House.
  But the teamwork and partnership beforehand--and hopefully that
situation never happens--how you work together is critically
important.  The way we work together in this campaign is one sample.
  Now I'd like to say in response to Vice President Quayle- -he talked
about Malta and the Philippines.  George Bush has concentrated on
every other country in the world.  When are you guys going to start
worrying about our people here in the US of America and get our
country moving again?
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  Again, I will ask the audience:  please do not applaud, it
takes time from the candidates.  All right, now we have 5 minutes for
discussion.  Go ahead, Vice President Quayle.
  QUAYLE:  The answer to that is very simple:  we are not going to
raise taxes to create new jobs, we have a plan to create new jobs.
But that wasn't the question.  The question dealt with qualifications.
Teamwork and partnership may be fine in the Congress, Senator
Gore--that's what Congress is all about, compromise, teamwork, working
things out.  But when you're president of the US or when you're vice
president and you have to fill in like I did the night of the crisis
in the Philippines, you've got to make a decision, you've got to make
up your mind.  Bill Clinton, running for president of the US, said
this about the Persian Gulf war.  He said:  "Had I been in the Senate,
I would have voted with the majority, if it was a close vote.  But I
agreed with the arguments of the minority."
  You can't have it both ways, you have to make a decision.  You
cannot sit there in an international crisis--
  (Applause)
  --and sit there and say, well, on the one hand, this is okay, and,
on the other hand, this is okay.  You've got to make the decision.
President Bush has made the decisions; he's been tested, he's got the
experience, he's got the qualification, he's got the integrity to be
our president for the next 4 years.
  BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.  Vice President.  Admiral Stockdale, it's
your turn to respond next, and then Senator Gore will have his chance
to respond.
  STOCKDALE:  Okay.  I thought this was just an open session, this
5-minute thing, and I didn't have anything to add to his.  But I
will--
  GORE:  Well, I'll jump in if you don't want--
  (Laughter)
  QUAYLE:  I thought anyone could jump in whenever they wanted to.
  BRUNO:  Okay, whatever pleases you gentlemen is fine with me.
You're the candidates.
  QUAYLE:  But I want Admiral Stockdale's time.
  (Laughter and applause)
  BRUNO:  This is not the Senate, where you can trade off time.  Go
ahead, Senator Gore.
  GORE:  I'll let you all figure out the rules, I've got some points
that I want to make here, and I still haven't gotten an answer to my
question on when you guys are going to start worrying about this
country, but I want to elaborate on it before--
  QUAYLE:  Why doesn't the Democratic Congress--why doesn't the
Democratic Congress--
  BRUNO:  Mr.  Vice President, let him say his thoughts, and then you
can come in.
  GORE:  I was very patient in letting you get off that string of
attacks.  We've been listening to--
  QUAYLE:  Good points.
  GORE:  --trickle-down economics for 12 years now, and you all still
support trickle-down to the very last drop.  And, you know, talking
about this point of concentrating on every other country in the world
as opposed to the people of our country right here at home, when
George Bush took former Secretary of State Baker out of the State Dept
and put him in charge of the campaign and made him chief of staff in
the White, Mr.  Baker, who's quite a capable man, said that for these
last 4 years George Bush was working on the problems of the rest of
the world and in the next 4 years he would target America.  Well, I
want you to know we really appreciate that.  But Bill Clinton and I
will target America from day one.  We won't wait 4 years before we
concentrate on the problems in this country.
  He went on to say that it's really amazing what George Bush can do
when he concentrates.  Well, it's time that we had a president like
Bill Clinton who can concentrate and will concentrate and work on the
problems of real people in this country.  You know, our country is in
trouble.  We simply cannot continue with this philosophy of giving
huge tax cuts to the very wealthy, raising taxes on middle income
families the way Bush and Quayle have done and then waiting for it to
work.  How much longer will it take, Dan, for trickle down economics
to work, in your theory?
  QUAYLE:  Well, we're going to have plenty of time to talk about
trickle down government, which you're for.  But the question--
  GORE:  Well, I'd like to hear the answer.
  QUAYLE:  But the question is--the question is--and which you have
failed to address, and that is, why is Bill Clinton qualified to be
president of the US.  You've talked about--
  GORE:  Oh, I'll be happy to answer that question--
  QUAYLE:  You've talked about Jim Baker.  You've talked about trickle
down economics.  You've talked about the worst economy-
  BRUNO:  Now, wait a minute.  The question was about--
  QUAYLE:  --in 50 years.
  GORE:  I'll be happy to answer those.  May I answer--
  QUAYLE:  Why is he qualified to be president of the US?
  GORE:  I'll be happy to--
  QUAYLE:  I want to go back and make a point--
  GORE:  Well, you've asked me the question.  If you won't answer my
question I will answer yours.
  QUAYLE:  I have not asked you a question.  I've made a statement,
that you have not told us why Bill Clinton is qualified to be
president of the US.  I pointed out what he said about the Persian
Gulf War.  But let me repeat it for you.  Here's what he said,
Senator.  You know full well what he said.
  GORE:  You want me to answer your question?
  QUAYLE:  I'm making a statement.  Then you can answer it.
  BRUNO:  Can we give Admiral Stockdale a chance to come in, please--
  (Applause)
  And again, audience--
  (Simultaneous conversation)
  QUAYLE:  (Inaudible) here's what he said.  I mean, this is the
Persian Gulf War--the most important event in his political lifetime
and here's what Bill Clinton says.  If it's a close vote, I'd vote
with the majority.
  BRUNO:  Let's give Admiral Stockdale a chance to come in.
  QUAYLE:  But he was the minority.  That qualifies you for being
president of the US.  I hope America is listening very closely to this
debate tonight.
  STOCKDALE:  And I think America is seeing right now the reason this
nation is in gridlock.
  (Laughter, applause)
  The trickle downs and the tax and spends, or whatever you want to
call them are at swords points.  We can't get this economy going.
Over here we've got Dan whose president is going to take 8 years to
balance the budget and on my left, the senator, whose boss is going to
get it half way balanced in 4 years.  Ross Perot has got a plan to
balance the budget 5 years in length from start to finish.  And
we're--people of the non-professional category who are just sick of
this terrible thing that's happened to the country.  And we've got a
man who knows how to fix it, and I'm working for him.
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  I was a little bit worried that there might not be a free
flowing discussion tonight.
  (Laughter)
  Let's move on to the economy.  Specifically the economy was talked
about at great length the other night in the presidential debate.
Let's talk about a very particular aspect of the economy and that is,
getting people back to work.  For the average person, the great fear
is losing his or her job and many Americans have lost jobs in this
recession, which also means the loss of benefits, the loss of a home,
the destruction of a family's security.  Specifically, how would your
administration go about getting people back to work and how long is it
going to take?  And we start with Admiral Stockdale.
  STOCKDALE:  The lifeblood of our economy is investment.  And right
now when we pay $350--we borrow $350 billion a year it saps the money
markets and the private investors are not getting their share.  What
we do is work on that budget by an aggressive program, not a painful
program, so that we can start borrowing less money and getting more
investment money on the street through entrepreneurs who can build
factories, who will hire people, and maybe we'll start manufacturing
goods here in this country again.  That's-- that's my answer.
  BRUNO:  Okay.  Senator Gore.
  GORE:  Bill Clinton's top priority is putting America back to work.
Bill Clinton and I will create good, high-wage jobs for our people,
the same way he has done in his state.  Bill Clinton has created
high-wage manufacturing jobs at 10 times the national average and in
fact according to the statistics coming from the Bush-Quayle Labor
Dept, for the last 2 years in a role Bill Clinton's state has been
number one among all 50 in the creation of jobs in the private sector.
  By contrast, in the nation as a whole, during the last 4 years, it
is the first time since the presidency of Herbert Hoover, that we have
gone for a 4-year period with fewer jobs at the end of that 4-year
period than we had at the beginning.
  And look at manufacturing.  We have lost 1.4 million jobs in
manufacturing under George Bush and Dan Quayle.  They have even--we
learned 2 weeks ago--taken our tax dollars and subsidized the moving
of US factories to foreign countries.  Now don't deny it because 60
Minutes and Nightline and the nation's newspapers have investigated
this very carefully.
  (Laughter.)
  When are you going to stop using our tax dollars to shut down
American factories and move 'em to foreign countries and throw
Americans out of work?
  BRUNO:  Vice President Quayle.
  QUAYLE:  Senator, don't always believe what you see on television.
  (Applause.)
  Let me tell you:  the media have been wrong before.  We have never
subsidized any country--or any company to move from the US to Latin
America.  You know full well the Caribbean Basin Initiative, you've
supported that.
  GORE:  No.
  QUAYLE:  That is a program there--
  GORE:  I voted against it.
  QUAYLE:  You voted for it and your record--
  GORE:  No.
  QUAYLE:  Okay.  Well, we'll--we'll have a lot of interesting debate
after this debate.  Our people will be glad to furnish the press, if
they're interested, in Senator Gore's voting record on the Caribbean
Basin Initiative.  But let's talk--you know, you keep talking about
trickle-down economics and all this stuff, about the worst economy
since Hoover.  It is a bad economy.  It's a tough economy.  The
question isn't--it's now who you're going to blame; what are you going
to do about it?  Your proposal it so raise $150 billion in taxes.  To
raise $220 billion in new spending.
  GORE:  No.
  QUAYLE:  How is raising taxes going to help small business?  How is
raising taxes going to help the farmer?  How is raising taxes going to
help the consumer in America?  I submit to you that raising taxes will
make matters much, much worse.
  (Applause.)
  BRUNO:  Admiral.  We now throw it open for discussion.  Admiral
Stockdale, it's your turn to start the discussion.
  STOCKDALE:  Well, we've got to re--we've got to clean out the barn,
if I may quote my boss, and start getting this investment money on the
street so we can get, and encourage entrepreneurs to build factories.
We--the program is out there.  It's a put-together thing that requires
some sacrifice, but not excessive, and we are willing to move forward
in--on a 5-year clip to put us back where we can start over and
get--get this nation straightened out.
  BRUNO:  Senator Gore, getting people back to work.
  GORE:  Well, the difference between the Perot- Stockdale plan and
the Clinton-Gore plan is that Ross Perot's plan concentrates almost
exclusively on balancing the budget and reducing the budget deficit,
and the danger is that if that is the only goal it could throw our
nation back into an even worse recession.
  Bill Clinton and I have a detailed 5-year budget plan to create good
jobs, cut the budget deficit in half, and eliminate the investment
deficit in order to get our economy moving forward again.  We have a
$20-billion infrastructure fund to create a nationwide network of
high-speed rail, for example, and what are called information
superhighways to open up a whole universe of knowledge for our young
people and to help our universities and companies that rely on new
advances in the information revolution.  We also have tax incentives
for investment in job-creating activities, not the kind of
encouragement for short-term rip-offs like the proposal that we have
had from George Bush.
  But I want to return and say one more time:  you have used our tax
dollars to subsidize the recruitment of US companies to move overseas
and throw Americans out of work.  In Decaturville, Tennessee, not very
far from my home, a factory was shut down right there when they were
solicited by officials paid with US taxpayers' money, and then the
replacement workers in a foreign country were trained with our tax
dollars and then their imports were subsidized coming back into the
US.
  When are you going to stop that program?
  QUAYLE:  We do not have any program that encourages companies to
close down here and to go and invest on foreign soil.  That is
absolutely outrageous.  Of course American businesses do have business
abroad; we've got global competition.  We want businesses to expand.
Do you realize this, Senator, that every job that's overseas there's 3
jobs back here to support that.
  But never have we ever, nor would we, support the idea of someone
closing down a factory here and moving overseas.  That's just totally
ridiculous.
  GORE:  It's going on right now; it happened in Tennessee, in
Decaturville, Tennessee.  When George Bush went to Nashville, the
employees who lost their jobs asked to meet with--
  QUAYLE:  I want to get back--
  GORE:  I talked with them.  Let me tell you what they're feeling.
Some of them are in their 50s and 60s.  They want to know where
they're going to get new jobs when their jobs have been destroyed.
And there are 1.4 million manufacturing jobs that have been lost
because of the policies of you and George Bush.  Do you seriously
believe that we ought to continue the same policies that have created
the worst economy since the Great Depression?
  QUAYLE:  I hope that when you talked to those people you said:  and
the first thing that Bill Clinton and I are going to do is to raise
$150 billion in new taxes.
  GORE:  You got that wrong, too.
  QUAYLE:  And the first--that is part of your plan.
  GORE:  No, it's not.
  QUAYLE:  A hundred and fifty billion dollars in new taxes.  Well,
you're going to disavow your plan.
  GORE:  Listen, what we're proposing--
  QUAYLE:  You know what you're doing, you know what you're doing?
You're pulling a Clinton.
  (Laughter)
  And you know what a Clinton is?  And you know what Clinton is?  A
Clinton is, is what he says--he says one thing one day and another
thing the next day--you try to have both sides of the issues.  The
fact of the matter is that you are proposing $150 billion in new
taxes.
  GORE:  No.
  QUAYLE:  And I hope that you talk to the people in Tennessee--
  GORE:  No, we're not.
  QUAYLE:  --and told them that--
  GORE:  You can say it all you want but it doesn't make it true.
  QUAYLE:  --going to have new taxes.  I hope you talked to them about
the fact that you were going to increase spending to $220 billion.
I'm sure what you didn't talk to them about was about how we're going
to reform the health care system, like the president wants to do.  He
wants to go out and to reform the health care system so that every
American will have available to them affordable health insurance.
  I'm sure one other thing that you didn't talk to them about,
Senator, and that is legal reform, because your position on legal
reform is the status quo.  And yet you talk about foreign competition.
Why should an American company have to spend 15 to 20 times on product
liability and insurance costs compared to a company in Japan or a
company in Germany or somewhere else?  That's not right.  We have
product liability reform legislation on Capitol Hill.  It will create
jobs.  And a Democratic Congress won't pass it.
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  Okay.  I think it's time to move on to our next topic.  All
3 of you gentlemen have some expertise in defense and the armed
forces.  Vice President Quayle and Senator Gore both served on the
Senate Armed Services Committee.  Admiral Stockdale, of course, has a
very distinguished military career.
  With the end of the Cold War, everyone agrees that there are going
to be major cuts.  They've already started in the defense budget.  But
this country has a long history of neglecting its military needs in
peace time and then paying for it with heavy casualties when we're
caught unprepared.  How much of a defense cut is safe?  What happens
to the people who are forced to leave the military services, or if
they lose their jobs because they're working in defense industries.
  I think we start with Senator Gore this time.
  GORE:  Bill Clinton and I support a strong national defense.  He and
I have both fought for change within the Democratic Party as well as
within the country.  In the aftermath of the Cold War, the definition
of strong national defense has obviously changed somewhat.  For
example, George Bush wants to maintain at least 150,000 American
soldiers in Europe, even though World War II ended 50 years ago.
  Bill Clinton and I agree with so many military experts who believe
that it is time for the Europeans, who are so much wealthier now and
more powerful than they were at the end of World War II to start
picking up a little more of that tab themselves and not rely so
exclusively on the US taxpayers for the defense of Europe.
  We believe that we can make savings in our defense budget and at the
same time, improve our national security.
  Now, for those who are affected by the cutbacks, whether they come
from George Bush or Bill Clinton and me--the difference is, Bill
Clinton and I have a defense conversion program so that those who won
the Cold War will not be left out in the cold.  We want to put them to
work building an infrastructure and an economy here in this country
for the '90's and the next century.
  BRUNO:  Vice President Quayle.
  QUAYLE:  We won the Cold War because we invested in national
security.  We won the Cold War because we invested in our military.
We didn't win the Cold--we won the Cold War because we invested in
national security.  We won the Cold War because we invested in our
military.  We didn't win the cold--or we won the Cold War because
America had the political will and made the right decisions.  Yes, we
can make the cuts in defense and we have.  Bill Clinton wants to cut
defense another $60 billion.  I'd say to the defense workers in
California and elsewhere, a $60 billion defense cut is going to cut a
lot of jobs out.
  Yes, we are making a conversion and we can go to a civil space
rather than having defense--or the defense industry.  Well, let me say
this:  we would not have won the Cold War if we had listened to
Senator Gore and his crowd, and had supported a nuclear freeze.  If
you would have supported that attitude--if you would have supported
that attitude, we would not have won the Cold War.  We won the Cold
War because we invested and we went forward.
  (Applause.)
  BRUNO:  Mr.--Admiral Stockdale, please.
  STOCKDALE:  Yes, thanks.  The numbers, in terms of the dollar cuts,
as they stand on our plans now, show us almost the same as the vice
president's.  But we'd note that Mr.-- Governor Clinton's plan is
almost twice as much a cut as either one of us.  I've been through the
end of World War II, and the surprise beginning of Korea, to see how
we--it cost us more money because we overcut the defense budget in the
first place.  I don't say that--
  (Applause.)
  So I think that should be eyed with great suspicion, people that are
really kicking the props out from under our grand military
establishment prematurely.
  Now there's other differences between the Perot approach and what we
see up here on either side of me, and that has to do with we want to
focus our interests, economic and military, more to the Pacific.  We
figure that we are generally going along with any sort of a troop
removal from Europe.  So that's still another face of this puzzle.
  BRUNO:  Senator Gore, would you like to start the discussion period
on this topic?
  GORE:  Yeah, I'd like to respond first to you, Admiral Stockdale.
Under the details of our 5-year budget plan, we do propose more in
defense cuts than George Bush and Dan Quayle, but only 5 % more.
  Admiral Crowe, who I think was one of your classmates in Annapolis--
  STOCKDALE:  Oh, yes, I've known him--
  GORE:  --has endorsed--
  STOCKDALE:  --50 years.
  GORE:  --the military portions of our plan, even though he was the
chairman of the Joint Chiefs under George Bush, and John White has
endorsed the economic aspects of our plan, even though I believe he
was the architect of Ross Perot's economic plan.
  Now when I heard George Bush say at the convention in Houston, that
when he heard the phrase "we won the Cold War," it made him wonder who
the "we" was.  Well, I want to tell you, President Bush, the "we" is
the people of the US of America.  This wasn't a partisan victory that
came suddenly, a few months after you took the oath of office.  This
started with Harry Truman and it was a bipartisan effort from the very
beginning.  George Bush taking credit for the Berlin Wall coming down
is like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise.
  (Applause.)
  And I want to, I want to add--I want to add one other thing, because
in the debate a few nights ago, I think President Bush made a very
serious misstatement of fact in response to Ross Perot.  It was kind
of a little lecture he gave to Ross Perot when he said those SS-18s
are gone, Ross, that's done.  He--he reached a deal with Boris Yeltsin
to completely remove them so we can all sleep safely without any fear
tonight.
  But you know what?  They thought they were going to get that deal,
but when he took the person in charge of the negotiations out of the
State Dept and put him in charge of the reelection campaign, the deal
unraveled and now there is no START II deal at all.  In fact there are
serious problems.
  Isn't it a fact, Dan, that every single one of those SS-18s is still
there, in the silos, and under the START I treaty, only half of the
silos are supposed to be dismantled, and there is no deal to get rid
of the other half?
  Didn't the president make a mistake there?
  BRUNO:  Vice President Quayle, please.
  QUAYLE:  The president does have a commitment from Boris Yeltsin to
eliminate the SS-18s.  That is a commitment to--
  GORE:  Is it an agreement?
  QUAYLE:  It is a commitment.
  GORE:  Oh.
  (Laughter)
  QUAYLE:  Let's talk about, let's talk about--
  GORE:  Well, he said he'd--
  BRUNO:  Let him talk, Senator.
  QUAYLE:  Lighten up here, Al.
  (Laughter and applause)
  BRUNO:  Go ahead.
  QUAYLE:  Let's talk about getting agreements.  You know, the
president of the US doesn't just negotiate with your friends in
Congress; the president of the US deals on the international scene.
He's got to deal with the president of Russia, he's got to deal with
the chancellor of Germany, the prime minister of Britain, the
president of France, the prime minister of Japan--he's got to deal
with a whole host of leaders around the world.  And the leaders sit
down and they will negotiate, and they will come to agreements with
people that they trust.  And this is a fundamental problem with Bill
Clinton, is trust and character.
  It is not the issue of how he avoided military service 20-some years
ago; it's the fact--it's the fact that he does not tell the truth
about it.  He first said he didn't get an induction notice, then we
find out that he did; he said he didn't have an ROTC slot, then we
find out he did; he said he didn't use Senator Fulbright's office for
special influence, then we find out that he did.
  These are inconsistencies.  Bill Clinton has trouble telling the
truth.  And he will have a very difficult time dealing with somebody
like President Yeltsin or Chancellor Kohl or Prime Minister Major or
President Mitterrand, because truth and integrity are prerequisites to
being president of the US.
  (Applause)
  GORE:  I want to respond to that, I want to respond to that.  George
Bush, in case you've forgotten, Dan, said "Read my lips--no new
taxes."
  (Laughter and applause)
  And you know what?
  QUAYLE:  I didn't think I was going to hear that tonight.
  GORE:  Hold on, hold on, let me finish.
  QUAYLE:  Okay.
  GORE:  He also said he wanted to be the environmental president;
then he went on to say he wanted to be the education president.  Then
he said that he wouldn't raise taxes again--no, never, ever, ever.
Then the next day his spokesman, Marlin Fitzwater, came out and said
that's not a pledge.  Then 2 weeks ago he said that after the
election, if you win, then James Baker's going to go back to be
secretary of state; then a week later, in the debate a few nights ago,
he said, no, after the election, if we win, James Baker is going to be
in charge of domestic policy.
  Which is it, Dan?  Is he going to--what's your role in this going to
be?
  (Laughter and applause)
  BRUNO:  Well, we'll have to move on to another topic.
  QUAYLE:  Let me--
  BRUNO:  Sorry, Mr.  Vice President.
  QUAYLE:  I don't have time to respond to that?
  BRUNO:  You'll get plenty of chance to respond, so don't worry.
  QUAYLE:  Okay, you're the moderator.  I was under the assumption
that when the thing is like that that you get a chance to respond.
  BRUNO:  Well, we ran out of time; according to the agreement, it's
time to move on.  And I want to stick to the agreement.
  QUAYLE:  Okay.  Well, you got the last word on that, but we'll come
back to it.
  BRUNO:  But you'll have a chance--I can see what's happening here:
we throw out the topic and then we drift.  But that's okay, because I
think it's making for a healthy exchange.
  (Laughter)
  The only thing I would ask of you--
  GORE:  I'm enjoying it.
  (Laughter)
  BRUNO:  The only thing I would ask of you gentlemen is that when we
get to the discussion period, whoever talks first be considerate of
the others, because you have a tendency to filibuster.
  QUAYLE:  Look over there.
  (Laughter)
  BRUNO:  Okay, I'm not pointing any fingers.  Let's talk about the
environment--we'll get away from controversy.
  (Laughter)
  Everyone wants a safe and clean environment, but there's an ongoing
conflict between environmental protection and the need for economic
growth and jobs.  So the point I throw out on the table is, how do you
resolve this conflict between protection of the environment and growth
in jobs, and why has it taken so long to deal with basic problems,
such as toxic waste dumps, clean air and clean water?
  And, Vice President Quayle, it's your turn to start first.
  QUAYLE:  Hal, that's a false choice.  You don't have to have a
choice between the environment and jobs--you can have both.  Look at
the president's record:  clean air legislation passed the Democratic
Congress because of the leadership of George Bush.  It is the most
comprehensive clean air act in our history.  We are firmly behind
preserving our environment, and we have a good record with which to
stand.  The question comes about:  What is going to be their position
when it comes to the environment?  I say it's a false choice.  You
ought to ask somebody in Michigan, a UAW worker in Michigan, if they
think increasing the CAFE standards, the fuel economy standards, to 45
miles a gallon is a good idea--300,000 people out of work.  You ought
to talk to the timber people in the Northwest where they say that,
well, we can only save the owl, forget about jobs.
  You ought to talk to the timber people in the northwest, where they
say that--well, we can only save the owl.  Forget about jobs.  You
ought to talk to the coal miners.  They're talking about putting a
coal tax on.  They're talking about a tax on utilities, a tax on
gasoline and home heating oil-- all sorts of taxes.
  No, Hal, the choice isn't the environment and jobs.  With the right
policies--prudent policies--we can have both.
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  Admiral Stockdale.
  STOCKDALE:  I read Senator Gore's book about the environment and I
don't see how he could possibly pay for his proposals in today's
economic climate.
  (Applause)
  You know, the Marshall Plan of the environment, and so forth.
  And also, I'm told by some experts that the things that he fears
most might not be all that dangerous, according to some scientists.
You know, you can overdo, I'm told, environmental cleaning up.  If you
purify the pond, the water lilies die.  You know, I love this planet
and I want it to stay here, but I don't like to have it the private
property of fanatics that want to overdo this thing.
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  Senator Gore.
  GORE:  Bill Clinton and I believe we can create millions of new jobs
by leading the environmental revolution instead of dragging our feet
and bringing up the rear.
  You know, Japan and Germany are both opening proclaiming to the
world now that the biggest new market in the history of world business
is the market for the new products and technologies that foster
economic progress without environmental destruction.
  Why is the Japanese business organization--the largest one they
have, the Ki Den Ren (phonetic), arguing for tougher environmental
standards than those embodied in US law?  Why is MITI--their trade
organization--calling on all Japanese corporations everywhere in the
world to exceed by as much as possible the environmental standards of
every country in which they're operating?
  Well, maybe they're just dumb about business competition.  But maybe
they know something that George Bush and Dan Quayle don't know--that
the future will call for greater efficiency and greater environmental
efficiency.
  This is an issue that touches my basic values.  I'm taught in my
religious tradition that we are given dominion over the Earth, but
we're required to be good stewards of the Earth, and that means to
take care of it.  We're not doing that now under the Bush-Quayle
policies.  They have gutted the Clean Air Act.  They have broken his
pledge to be the environmental president.  Bill Clinton and I will
change that.
  (Applause)
  BRUNO:  Okay.  Discussion period now.  Again, leave time for each
other, please.  Vice President Quayle, go ahead.
  QUAYLE:  Well, I'm tempted to yield to Admiral Stockdale on this.
But I--you know, the fact of the matter is that one of the proposals
that Senator Gore has suggested is to have the taxpayers of America
spend $100 billion a year on environmental projects in foreign
countries--
  GORE:  That's not true--
  QUAYLE:  Foreign aid--well, Senator, it's in your book.  On page
304--
  GORE:  No, it's not.
  QUAYLE:  It is there.
  (Applause)
  It is in your book.  You know, Hal, I wanted to bring the Gore book
tonight, because I figured he was going to pull a Bill Clinton on me
and he has.  Because he's going to disavow what's in his book.  It's
in your book--
  GORE:  No.
  QUAYLE:  It comes out to $100 billion of foreign aid for
environmental projects.
  BRUNO:  All right.  Let's give him a chance to answer.
  QUAYLE:  Now, how are we going to pay for it?  How are we going to
pay for an extra $100 billion of the taxpayers' money for this?
  GORE:  Dan, I appreciate you reading my book very much, but you've
got it wrong.
  QUAYLE:  No, I've got it right.
  GORE:  There's no such proposal.
  QUAYLE:  Okay, well, we'll find--
  BRUNO:  Let him talk, Mr Vice President.  Let the senator talk.  Go
ahead.
  GORE:  There is no such proposal.  What I have called upon is a
cooperative effort by the US and Europe and Asia to work together in
opening up new markets throughout the world for the new technologies
that are necessary in order to reconcile the imperatives of economic
progress with the imperatives of environmental protection.  Take
Mexico City for an example.  They are shutting down factories right
now, not because of their economy, but because they're choking
together on the air pollution.  They're banning automobiles some days
of the week.
  Now what they want is not new laser-guided missile systems.  What
they want are new engines and new factories and new products that
don't pollute the air and the water, but nevertheless allow them to
have a decent standard of living for their people.  Last year 35 % of
our exports went to developing countries, countries where the
population is expanding worldwide by as much as one billion people
every ten years.
  We cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend that we don't face
a global environmental crisis, nor should we assume that it's going to
cost jobs.  Quite the contrary.  We are going to be able to create
jobs as Japan and Germany are planning to do right now, if we have the
guts to leave.
  Now earlier we heard about the auto industry and the timber
industry.  There have been 250,000 jobs lost in the automobile
industry during the Reagan-Bush-Quayle years.  There have been tens of
thousands of jobs lost in the timber industry.  What they like to do
is point the finger of blame with one hand and hand out pink slips
with the other hand.  They've done a poor job both with the economy
and the environment.
  (Applause.)
  It's time for a change.
  (Applause.)
------------------OS/2 v2.0 -- Why settle for anything less?--------------------
James C. Barrett (barrett@cc.gatech.edu)|"If your so damned smart, why are
Georgia Tech College of Computing       |  you doing what you're doing, and I'm
                                        |  president of the U.S.?" - G.Bush