Date: 17 Nov 92 23:51:30
Distribution: world
From: Eberhard von Kitzing - MPImF - Heidelberg - FRG <mpimfhd!vkitzing>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
Organization: <none>
Subject: Re: Should religion be eliminated? 

Rob Karmolinski (RK,  robert@oahu.cs.ucla.edu) replies to Mark Sornson 
(MS,  news@illusn.enet.dec.com) : 
MS>   Q2: If you are in favor of seeing religion eliminated from
MS>       the world, how do you think this should and could be
MS>       accomplished?

Here a detailed answer from Rob follows.  Before considering a
detailed response,  some general notes are to be made. Rob has a
certain picture of how religion appears to him to be. I completely agree
with him that our world would be better without such type of religion.
But the indicated problems are not solely propagated by religion,  any
established institution shows one or the other draw back.

On the other hand,  religion can be very different from that outlined
above.  `Abdu'l-Baha, the son of the Prophet founder of the
Baha'i-Faith, Baha'u'llah,  explained in a talk in the beginning of
this century in Paris:
   "Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to
   vanish from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and
   bring life and light to each heart.  If religion becomes the cause
   of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it,
   and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious
   act. For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but
   if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be
   left alone.  Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is
   no religion." (`Abdu'l-Baha, 'Paris Talks')

RK> Education is the key.  
Certainly true.  Only good education allow people to make optimal use
of their innate qualities.

RK> Teach people *how* to think,  not *what* to think.  Teach them that 
RK> dynamic thinking,  based upon a dynamic and ever growing knowledge 
RK> base is better than static (stagnant) beliefs,  and show how this 
RK> atrophy has hindered the evolution of thought.  
I don't see why religion should be inherently static.  That one has a 
fixed set of Holy Writings does not imply stagnation.  Take for 
instance Newton mechanics which were given a few hundred years ago.  It 
can be presented in a few lines of formula.  Up to now,  these formulas 
have not been changed.  But only very recently new unexpected aspects 
of this theory,  the deterministic chaos,  have been discovered and are 
still under investigation.  

What causes stagnation is a rigid interpretation of the Holy Writings
by institutions.


RK> Teach them the history behind such religions;  how and why such 
RK> religions were created,  how and why God was created by man.  Show them 
RK> how such religions which are supposedly inherently static,  were forced 
RK> to evolve and change,  to keep pace with the collective,  dynamic,  and 
RK> ever growing knowledge base.  Show them how such religions have impeded 
RK> scientific knowledge and real education.  Show them how such religions 
RK> are propogated,  and show them that these same techniques were,  and 
RK> still are,  used by many cults and other fascist movements to control 
RK> large numbers of people.  
It is true that these aspects of religious history all exists.
Religious institutions brought much sorry over humanity.  But on the
other hand,  the historian Arnold Toynbee definitely showed  that it
was always the impetus of a new religion to lay the foundation of
human cultures.  

If you really are willing to condemn religion because of the pain
imposed by its institutions upon mankind neglecting its great
achievements in history (for instance the propagation of sciences due
to the islamic culture in the middle age) you also have to condemn
science.  The monstrous weapon arsenals of A-, B- or C-type are a
direct outcome of modern science.  Technology allows up to pollute the
atmosphere to such a degree that the climate of our whole planet may
change.  Modern business helps to exploit complete continents.

RK> Teach people that superstition is not a prerequisite for a sound 
RK> moral code.  Show people how such religions have been used to justify 
RK> otherwise unconscionable (immoral) acts such as hatred and bigotry,  
RK> and how it is still being used today.  Show people that they do not 
RK> need an emotional security blanket to create a false sense of 
RK> security,  and that a full and meaningful life has a value in and of 
RK> itself,  even if it's only finite,  and not everlasting.  

But exactly here is the major difficulty.  The most important
contribution of religion is that they provided a set of moral values
which were accepted by large groups of people.  Neither science nor
philosophy have been able to provide us with a set of moral values
based on reason.  Any such set requires in the first place *Faith*.
Baha'u'llah the prophet founder of the Baha'i-Faith defines the
purpose of religion:
   "The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His 
   Religion is to saveguard the interests and promote the unity 
   of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and 
   fellowship amongst men." (Gleanings CX)


RK> Once people understand what such religions are all about, these
RK> religions should die on their own, and we can get on with the business
RK> of actually *doing* something constructive, rather than playing
RK> tug-of-war, and going nowhere fast.
I am rather sure that it is impossible to remove religion from earth.  
Its removal would simply create a vacuum which would be filled by 
pseudo religious movements. 

RK> Any religion that can survive *these* rigorous constraints deserves 
RK> to stick around,  because they obviously have a *real* value,  and 
RK> should not rightly be called a religion in the first place.  
I hope that the few citation from the Baha'i-Writings given above have
shown that the Baha'i-Faith may be a good candidate for such a
"nonreligious" religion!

------------------------------------------------------------

Eberhard von Kitzing
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Medizische Forschung
Jahnstr. 29, D6900 Heidelberg, FRG

FAX : +49-6221-486 459  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-486 467  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-385 129  (home)

email: vkitzing%mpimfhd.uucp@Germany.EU.net  or  vkitzing@mpimfhd.uucp

P.S.: Because I don't have regular access to NetNews I would
      highly appreciate to obtain personal copies from follow-ups.
      Eberhard
Newsgroups: alt.atheism