HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:02:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: omen.1992Dec30.200240.14796
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest

In article <1992Dec30.120456.16478@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
>caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg) writes:
>
>>The 403 to 343 loss was a combination of Pearson&Shaw, Cambridge
>>Diet, and 800 calories worth of Weight Watchers' frozen dinners,
>>which resulted in hair loss, heart palpitations, funny looking
>>fingernails, severe fatigue, stomach upsets, and piano legs.
>
>	Piano legs?  What is that?   

I forget the medical term, but it refers to swelling of the feet and
lower legs that builds up during the day and tends to go away during
sleep when the fluid doesn't have to go uphill.

-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:56:41 GMT
	<1992Dec29.024354.0201957@locus.com>
	<1992Dec30.203414.28218@inmet.camb.inmet.com>
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA

I can't resist one tidbit.

After being diagnosed as diabetic in August, I went on a *VERY* strict
low-fat diet.  Now, it has controlled my blood sugar famously, which
is what it was supposed to do.

On the other hand, I have not lost a damn pound.  Nor have I gained.
Rock steady.

My wife just informed me that through *sometimes* eating my low fat
diet, she has dropped eight pounds.  She often eats what she wants,
rather than what I am eating.  About half of our dinners together, she
eats what I am cooking (I have gotten very good at low-fat cooking, if
I do say so myself).  The rest of the time, she gorges on lasanga,
quiche, and ice cream bars.

And she loses eight pounds.  Do I lose squat?  No.

Life really sucks, sometimes.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Nicotine Withdrawal Help Needed
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:13:33 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: dyer@spdcc.com's message of 30 Dec 92 18:48:33 GMTLines: 18

In <1992Dec30.184833.16038@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com writes:
> Thank God I don't smoke, that's all I can say.

A dear friend of mine who was addicted to both alcohol & heroin in the late
60's (now sober 23 years) has repeatedly said that quitting smoking (which she
has not yet acheived) is much harder than getting off either heroin or alcohol.

I smoked for 15 years before I quit for good (I think it was my 6th or 7th
attempt).  I quit by going on a 3-week wilderness backpacking trip in the Rocky
mountains w/out taking any cigarettes with me.  It would have been a
several-days' hike out of the mountains to find a cigarette machine, a strong
incentive to make due w/out the damn things.  Also, by the time I returned from
that trip I felt so fit & healthy from all that high altitude hiking that I
didn't want to pollute myself with another cigarette.  It worked for me.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
From: tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Estrogen Replacement Therapy
Summary: If you have a uterus you need progesterone
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:47:34 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu

In article <72655@cup.portal.com> amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid) writes:
>A friend has reached menopause and has begun estrogen replacement 
>therapy.  She currently takes Estrace, 1mg/day.  The first 12 days of the
>month her physcian has her put Proges cream on her feet.  She also is told
>to put apply Provera to better "challenge" the uterus.  
>
>Question:  Would there be less cancer risk to just switch from Proges 
>cream to Provera?  Her mother had uterine cancer.  
>
>amigan@cup.portal.com

Mike, the important thing to remember about Estrogen Replacement
Therapy is that unopposed estrogen often results in hyperplastic
(overgrowth) changes in the lining of the womb, which in about 20% of
the cases will lead to cancer of the endometrium.  This is what
happened back in the 50s when docs were using estrogen alone to treat
menopausal symptoms. 
     Each woman is an individual and we have to find the proper dose
and schedule for the particular woman.  I am interested in the use of
"Proges" cream on the feet, rather than just taking a Provera tablet.
I have not heard of this one.  Maybe Steve can comment on the blood
levels produced by administering Proges cream to the feet (dorsum or
plantar surface, I wonder?)
     As for cancer risk, as long as the woman is taking sufficient
progesterone dose to balance the estrogen (the ratio would be .625 mg
Premarin and 2.5 mg Provera daily, then calculate bioequivalents for
other forms)of admistration), the risk of endometrial cancer is
_reduced_ as compared to women not taking ERT at all.
     My personal experience perscribing the Estroderm patch is that
the majority of women will not like the side effects.  I only have two
women of about 1500 that are using that form of estrogen replacement,
the majority of the others are on various combinations of Premarin and
Provera.  I have been using this combination since the early 60s when
Gambrel did his original work and we were both in the Air Force.  This
is merely to say that I speak from the point of personal experience as
well as believing what Dan Mishell says.
     Hope this helps, Mike.
     Have a Happy and Blessed New Year....         Len Howard MD
o
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: eepee@polaris.utu.fi (Esa-Pekka P{lvim{ki)
Subject: Re: NEW wonderpill! (was: Re: Bananas vs. PowerBars)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 11:10:36 GMT


OK, folks, I'm the original poster of the MIX-VIT (tm) advertisement, and
here's a merry Christmas to you all, oh, and OF COURSE it was a joke. A joke
with a message to all PowerBar etc. eaters.

/ep
From: acs_belscamp@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Milk allergies
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:59:35 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls


Does anyone here have any idea where to buy food without milk in it?  I have 
reason to believe that I'm allergic to milk and that that's part of the
problems I'm having.   Well probably allergic to milk and cheese.   The
problem is that I've been looking around for things to eat and it seems like 
everything has either milk, whey, nonfat dry milk, casein, caseinate or whey 
in it...If it doesn't have that stuff, it usually has some sort of cheese. 

Is anyone here allergic to milk and cheese?  If so what do you eat? Help would
be appreciated.  Thanks

Jill

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Milk allergies
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 18:58:27 GMT

Not eating dairy products for ethical reason has many reasons.
 
First, by supporting the dairy industry, you are indirectly supporting
the beef and veal industry.  After all, milk is from pregnant cows,
who give birth to approximately half male calves and half female.
 
The female ones are kept to raise for milking, the males are primarily
sold for meat.  Even if a dairy farm didn't use artificial insemination.
which most do, it would be economically STUPID to keep all of the male
steer, when you only need a few for a whole farm of females.
 
Next is the environment of the dairy farm itself.  I have seen small,
family run dairies that still hand milk and know the cows personally.
Most, though, are huge milk factories where the cows and calves are mistreated
The calves are usually (almost always) separated from their mothers at the
age of a few days old, and only fed gruel, instead of their mother's milk.
 
Other reasons to not consume dairy include the fact that many people,
including the vast majority of Nigerians (99%, I believe), most Asians,
and a large percentage of Caucasians, among others, are sensitive or allergic to
oops!
Lactose.
 
If you need more information, rec.food.veg may have what you are looking
for.  Many of the people who post there are vegan (no meat, no dairy,
no eggs, some people even include honey in the restricted foods)
 
 
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: jca@druwa.ATT.COM (Jill C. Arnson)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: sea salt versus "table" salt
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:19:43 GMT

in article <billd.725745596@cheetah>, billd@informix.com (William Daul) says:

> In <1992Dec30.180255.20998@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> kalin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (andrew.j.kalinowitsch) writes:

>>are there any health benefits derived from using
>>sea salt over regular table salt?

>>and what's so bad about table salt anyway?

> sodium chloride = sodium chloride     :-)


	HOWEVER, sea salt is more than just salt.  It also contains all sorts
of trace minerals, whereas table salt is just that, salt.  Sea salt is usually
obtained by taking sea water and evaporating it.  You get all sorts of goodies.






--
jill c. arnson		AT&T Bell Labs, Denver
jca@druwa.att.com
*** "When you climb high, remember that the beauty you see is only an
illusion created by G-d to keep your sanity."
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Milk allergies
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:51:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.095935.516@rivers> acs_belscamp@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:
>
>Is anyone here allergic to milk and cheese?  If so what do you eat? Help would
>be appreciated.  Thanks
>
>Jill
>
Hi Jill,

I haven't eaten any milk or milk products for a year, for ethical reasons.
In terms of regular supermarket type food, there is pasta, rice, some brands
of bread if you're lucky, canned beans, fruits, vegetables, etc.  "Health
food" stores stock milk-like beverages made from soy beans or rice, as well
as various prepared foods, frozen dinners, ice-cream-like deserts made from
pure fruit, soybeans, or rice, etc.  You might want to get a vegan cookbook,
even if you still are eating meat and eggs, to get some ideas on how to
prepare foods without milk, cheese, etc.  Some good ones are _The_American_
_Vegetarian_Cookbook_ by Marilyn Diamond, _Friendly_Foods_ by Brother Ron
Pickarski, _A_Vegetarians_Ecstasy_ by Natalie Cedarquist, and _Ecological_
_Cooking_ by Joanne Stepaniak and Kathy Hecker.  Or you could simply start
reading rec.food.veg, where a number of milk-free recipes are posted.

Good luck,
Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:56:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.095617.9424
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <altar.725790066@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>Usually that "understanding" instantiated by a proven ability
>to earn some credentials.

Well, I have credentials: I have a masters degree in computer science.
I made a choice early on that I wanted to do this; it's far more lucrative
and equally as interesting as a career in pharmacology.  But I love pharma-
cology, too, and keep up with it constantly.  I just prefer to make my
living with computers.  But I'll let my record of posting on the topic of
pharmacology stand on its own; anyone with a PhD in pharmacology or an MD
would be proud to have the same record.

>Hmm, for balance let us employ Mr Dyer's bad form and observe in turn
>that churlish Mr. Dyer is ignorant of statistics, experimental
>methodology, formal logic, philosophy of science, literature,
>poetry, psychology, sociology, just for starters.

Yeah, and my underwear is too tight, too.  You're really scraping the
bottom of the barrel for insults, aren't you?  What an absurdity.

>He's good with
>the bombast and can recite the prosaic information from general
>textbooks on pharmocology.  Too bad parroting his unnamed textbooks
>never cashed out in any degree in pharmacy or a single publication
>in any scientific journal,

I do not parrot textbooks, unlike Ted.  I've read them long ago and
understand them.  He's unaware that there's a difference there.  And
you don't need to have a publication in a scientific journal to under-
stand a field; that would eliminate 90% of all of a journal's audience.
Also, Ted: the field is spelled pharmacology and it's distinct from
the practice of pharmacy.

>nor has the spirit of intellectual
>curiosity and humility rubbed off from such a parroting.

Intellectual curiosity is no excuse for a weak mind.  And it's hard to
appear humble when you've got Ted acting as a foil.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: joe@proto.com (Joe Huffman)
Subject: Re: Why organic?
Organization: FlashTek, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:02:25 GMT

PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai) writes:

>la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:

>>Oh, I forgot one thing.
>>
>>I don't know if this is still done, but I would assume so.
>>}i}i
>>Banks used to give loans more freely to those farmers who use
>>more pesticides. I object to this type of manipulation very
>>strongly.
>>
>>Clover

>	I would hope you could back that one up with some facts.
>I'm tempted to post that one to alt.conspiracy or alt.folklore.urban
>to see what kind of laughs they could get out of it, if you can't.

>Skeptically,
>-J.

I grew up on a farm and my two brothers still run the farm.  I'm nearly
certain any of the loans/bankers were only concerned with profit and loss,
not how that was achieved.

Skeptically also,

-joe-
-- 
netcom!proto!joe
joe@proto.com
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Why organic?
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:54:15 GMT
	<1hatusINNenp@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> <28DEC92.20241228@nerus.pfc.mit.edu>
	<1992Dec29.141446.2262@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Followup-To: jil@donuts0.bellcore.com
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

[PS Is it me or does  the article to which I am replying have a corrupt header?]

Right.  In "natural" or "whole" foods, there are somewhere between 20
and 60 known vitamins and minerals, and we don't know what role these
all play in our health. In processed foods, most of the vitamins are
taken out, and a few of the most common and cheapest are added back
in. 
  There are two other components. One is, as mentionned before, the
substitution of sugar and fat for nutrients, so that more of what
fills you up is empty calories. It actually takes nutrients away from
your body to have to handle processing a lot of garbage. 
  Also, in the case of grains and cereals, there is FIBER! Corn puffs
and frosted flakes are made from the pure starchy part of the grain,
with the fiber-containing bran and the vitamin-containing germ
removed. Adding in some processed bran is a poor substitute. A diet of
processed grains and boiled vegetables is quite hard on the digestive
system and has been lined to colon cancer, diverticulosis and
appendicitis. Plus, you  don't get stomach aches and indigestion and
other woes nearly as often if your diet is high in whole grains and
green raw veggies.


--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:36:03 GMT


Ted Altar writes:
>>
>>Well, I'm very glad to see that you are indeed learning something
>>about logic from me.  ;-)   ;-)

Rich Young replies:

>	It's too bad you felt it necessary to flaunt your flatulent ego
>	once again.  This logic is not new, it's merely a timely presentation
>	of a well-known principle in a form which might make a small but
>	significant dent in the intellectual isolation of the original
>	questioner.


Gee, I thought this was a conference about nutrition, not
about mind reading and character analysis!  Tell me Rich,
do you do horiscopes as well  ;-)  :-)  ;-)

Now, as you have said elsewhere, this a "a forum where people 
seek facts", but this kind of persistant personal attack is
neither factual nor on the subject of nutrition.

Rich, you seem to have missed the winking simileys I place at the
end of my attempt at some levity. There's no need to be so deadly 
serious.  So, let's try to lighten up and maybe then we might
better learn something informative about nutrition from each 
other, especially if we all try to be a little more
civil and even friendly about it all.  

There really is no need to be so insulting and stiff.
After all, we are all lay  persons here, each of us trying
to understand as best we can  something about nutrition and
health.

                                           Ted
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Organization: WP Group
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:38:56 GMT


In article <altar.725666594@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
twa> Instead, we are asked to take Mr. Dyer's word for it that
twa> Professor Moon is a crank.  Ok, then in that case I would like know what
twa> Mr. Dyer's credentials are.  Does he have a PhD from accredited 
twa> university?  Has he any publications?  Has even a graduate degree of
twa> any kind?

From article <1992Dec29.232920.3510@pixel.kodak.com>, by young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young):
ry> As I said, I believe he gave you all that in the r.f.v. exchange;
ry> if you've subsequently forgotten, it's not Mr. Dyer's duty to
ry> refresh your memory on demand.
ry> 
ry> Not that it matters, of course, since truth or falsity cannot be
ry> determined by credentials alone.  After all, Nobel laureate Linus
ry> Pauling still thinks massive doses of vitamin C can cure/prevent
ry> the common cold.

Would you mind explaining how/why credentials can ever be used to 
reasonably test the truth or falsity of a statement concerning 
human nutrition?  On the whole, you seem to be saying that 
credentials are admissible when you say they are, and they're not 
admissible when you say they're not.  Please tell us the guidelines
that you use for making the distinction.

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:48:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.062428.1064@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>[Dean Ornish] also has an interest
>in keeping people on low fat, dairy-free vegetarian diets, since that's his
>schtick.

Unless he's changed his tune recently, Ornish pushes a very-low-fat
vegetarian diet that includes nonfat milk products and egg whites.
John McDougall is the low-fat vegan guru-doctor.

--
Michelle Dick, a Pritikin/Ornish/McDougall fan 'cause I like the food
and my body likes the lack of fat.
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 23:48:54 GMT

In article <altar.725581448@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>
>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

[...]

>>You mean you'll repeat some very fringe theories of Jim Moon, eminent
>>crackpot, SFU.
>
>Care to reveal to us exactly what eminent credentials you might
>happen to have earned?

[...]

>Again, what are your credentials such that they entitle you to
>resort to mere name-calling instead of discursive argumentation
>and referenced facts?

	I believe he already did that which you ask in his previous rebuttal
	of your interpretation of Moon's study in r.f.v.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Self Testing for Vitamin Absorption
Date: 21 Dec 1992 10:56:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



I have been taking and reading about vitamins for many
years and recently found a book on self testing for a
variety of diseases and illnesses, some of which required
mailing samples to laboratories.

Specifically, the vitamins A, C and E are being discussed
and studied heavily even within the orthodox medical journals
for anti cancer properties.
My question is: if I am taking these on a regular basis,
can I monitor their absorption rates, especially A, by
some sort of self administered test, or must I find a doctor
who will charge for visits and then send my blood samples
to the lab, more charges, expensive, etc.?

I believe much more in the way of such tests should be
available to the consumer without having to go through
expensive doctor visits.
Of course, with any test result, it is the responsibility
of the consumer to not overreact to the results.
I believe that self testing and monitoring of various
vitamin bio availabilty could help immensely in the
research itself to show whether vitamins can prevent
cancer, etc.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Originator: young@plasma
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 17:56:16 GMT

In article <altar.725961191@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...reposted discussion of the term "anabolic steroid" deleted...you didn't
	think that stuff was NEW, did you Craig?...]

>Again, I don't presume to be infallible in my reportage, but the
>kinds of criticisms we've seen so far directed to what I thought
>would be an interesting report, have for the most part been
>either simply unseemly personal attacks or unreferenced counter-
>claims.

	To use the unique economy of language often employed by another
	poster: "Snort."

	This discussion doesn't hold any more water than it did when you 
	first presented it.  You presume to be infallible all the time, else
	you would not spend so much time reposting in bulk what has already
	been refuted piecemeal, and in previous discussions.  Your false
	modesty is not only transparent, it is unseemly.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)