From: indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: HINDUS OFFER PRAYERS AT AYODHYA RAM MANDIR
Originator: indu@iss700
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 15:48:25 GMT

To: fall217@cse.unl.edu
Subject: Re: HINDUS OFFER PRAYERS AT AYODHYA RAM MANDIR

In article <1iiebjINNkrs@crcnis1.unl.edu> you write:
>indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
>
>PLEAS DO NOT FOLLOW UP WITHOUT READING TWICE.
>
>
>With your artical Mr Shaker you and your friendshave proved only the 
>point of muslims like Jinah that Muslim and Hindu are distinct nations 
>they can not live togather so pakistan was created.  
>Leaderes like Abukallam Azad and Master Tara singh were stupid to belive
>that above statment is not true.

   Well, sir I read twice. As you have asked  me to do.

   Abul Kalam Azad, the guy who was our first Education minister was against
   Jinnah because, his fellow Jinnah was trying to break India  and  create
   Pakistan. Where as a better option would have been to stay back in India
   and convert India into Pakistan. That was the Ideological clash. 

>You guys have droped the Income of indian from 360 to 330 $ in the last years.
>India is following the footsteps of USSR. And you guys are leading it 
>down the hill.

  Is it. Thank god. It is much better than living on the  crumbs and doles 
  of developed countries like U.S.A.  

  Anyway, had India been declared Hindu Rashtra then many of the present day
  problems would not have comeup. So that we could have concentrated 
  effectively on the Economic agenda. The basic problem is with the 
  Integrity of the Nation hood. We are first trying to keep the nation strong
  and united and makes its basis and foundation in the age old 
  tested concept of Hindu faith. The way country started dis-integrating 
  in the past FORTY years is a simple reflection of the damage non-Hindu
  beliefs can create in the country.

>Let me tell you for justifiing the demolition of musjid you will have to prove
>following things:
>(1)     Rama was actually born man not a mythalogical character.

   What if Rama was not born? Have you seen allah or God   or who so ever it is
   to pray him??

   Some idiots like Shahabuddin, and Banatwala have asked these very questions
   and got screwed thoroughly in the parliament and elsewhere.

>(2)     Ram was born at the same place no where else.

   What if Ram was not born at all? What if he was just a faith.  Don't screw
   up people's religious belief. They may be factual or mythical. But beliefs 
   especially religious beliefs are not measured by scientific facts, but 
   by the faith of the believers.

>(3)     If ram can not born more than one place if any other place clamed
>	to be his birth place then claim is void.

   What if I believe that god is every where? Then every place in this whole 
   world is God. Do not make your presumptions, bringing god down to some
   antropo-morphic form or what so ever. Hindus believe in both 
   the SAKARA (definable by shape), and NIRAKARA (formless and shapeless) 
   almighty. They also believe that ALLAH (which means MAN-WOMAN concept of
   the shivite ARTHA-NARI-ISWARA concpet) is a Hindu concept too. I read
   in some research book that AL means woman and AH means MAN. Or the other
   way round.

   And what if I want to pray my god, through some medium. I want to use this
   particular place as centre of my Faith and concentration, a SHRADDHA kendra.

   So here are many more things than you think, I guess.

>(4)     There was a temple there where masjid was build.
>(5)     Temple was destroyed to build the masjid.

   Please ask/read/examine/undestand/learn what ever you can do. There are
   many ways you could do it. For example you can post a request in the Net to
   get to know various facts.

>If you can not prove all thing you can  calim that peace of land.
>I really doubted in any neutral court even onlu one thing can be proved
>
>Why?  because:
>
>Masjid can not be build after destroying any place specially not any temple.

   This is like saying, since robbery is crime  there are no robbers. Looks like
   you are new around, [not that I'm a veteran].  But why do you want to 
   show ignorance of the History. Even the history mentioned in Quran. 

   FACT 1.  Muhammad himself led his armies to destroy jewis temples. 
   FACT 2.  Muslim barbaric invaders destroyed Temples, Churches during 
            their crusades and converted people to their faith by coercion, 
            treachery. 
   FACT 3.  More than  three thousand temples have been destroyed in 
            India alone. 
   FACT 4.  In 1948 the INDIAN GOVERNMENT, at the behest of MAhatma Gandhi, 
            had to demolish the illegal structure built by Islamic invaders, 
            on the site where a HINDU TEMPLE of Lord Shiva existed. This 
            site was cleansed and a Great Somanath Temple  has been contructed. 
   FACT ...

   What, do you want me to reproduce all those article which have come on sci,
   quoting the various instances when temples have been destroyed and Mosques
   constructed? 

>At that time when masjid was build why some body bothered to destroy a temple
>and then build a masjid.  While the land was in abandance.  India was not 
>that thicklly populated.

   What are your rumblings and rantiings? O.k. India was not thickly populated.
   That you know, and I know too. But that Barbaric-S.O.B-Invadin gangs did 
   not know. that is the catch. Even then, they came with the noble intentions
   of converting this DARUL-HARAB into DARUL-ISLAM. 

  [Just curious, R U from Indian subcontinent?Were your ancestors were the 
   first converts into Islam by Muhammad? Or were they Hindus who were coerced
   to be converted by these barbaric invaders? I hope you will appreciate
   what I'm saying oince you investigate these facts. No offence intended. 
   Serious.  Just plain fact finding, will let you know the various facts.]

>Above all do you thing that your forefathers were so coward, mean, crocked 
>that they did not do untill britishers came and were about to leave.

  Cowards, no. Un-organised yes. Yes. I accept that we were not organised. 
  There was period of one thousand yearss of DARK ages, which took 
  many reformers to revive the Hindutva. Finally in this century the Hindu 
  society has started realising is LONG SLEEP and DARKNESS.

>Even if there was a temple  and was destroyed earlier and then some
>one build the masjid after seeing that land is not in use. and temple was 
>not destroyed to bulid the masjid then to clamim masjid is just a 
>Majority decission it has nothing to do with justice.

   Please donot jump to various assumptions. Hope you have an access to 
   local University library. Just go to the Historica Section, 
   see the reports of Archaeological Survey of India, preIndependence 
   periods. You will know. 

   I  did it, in Columbia, South Carolina.  I was shocked. ALL THESE 
   THINGS which BJP, VHP are talking today are  all HARD FACTS. For your
   convenience :   Look in the Index column  for Ayudhya/Ayojya/Ajodhya/Ayodhya.
   There will be some reports about some Burmese stuff. There is some another
   similar name in Burma too. You will know, how Sikhism had formed. You 
   will know, the tortures which GURU NANAK has seen. How women were raped.
   ALL IN THE NAME OF CREATING  A DARUL-ISLAM. I donot know the exact 
   meaning, as I donot understand  persian. But its crude translation is 
   "A LAND OF HOLY ISLAM".

   Once these facts are learnt, I'm sure many of my Muslim brother will hang 
   their heads in Shame, realising the agonies their fore fathers had gone
   thru. They will then  realise why they were converted from some Hindu faith
   or religion to a foriegn religion  ISLAM by the invading Barbarians.

   Please look for the period between  1400 - 1600 A.D. Also 
   look in the Index for BABUR/Babar/Moghuls/Oudh/Awadh/Awadhi. 

   History, especially Indian History of the Last ONE THOUSAND years is 
   very painful.

>>  Enough is enough. 
>
>>  Fellows like you have have been spreading some trash. The time has come for 
>>  a turn around. For a divine Hindu Rashtra where there are no Majority and
>>  Minority divisions. A place where every Human is equal. Where a person 
>>  has a right for following his personal faith. A land of equal oppurtunities
>>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>for One and all.  And ofcourse which shall be nightmare to Pseudo's like
>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  You.
>
>
> **************************************************
> *  READ VERY NEXT SENTENCE YOU CONTRADICT YOUR SELF. WHER IS EQUAL APORTUNITY
>    FOR MINORITY.  
>
>
>>  Whether you accept or not the MAJORITY OF INDIAN POPULATION has accepted the
>>A ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  DEMOLITION of the "structure". They have approved the construction of a 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
> temple. The GOI is now trying to save its skin by allowing Hindu prayers. 
>>^^^^^^

   What shit are you talking? In the last forty years, India had 
   TWO PRESIDENTS. It has given equal status to muslims. Their Population
   [owing to their religious beliefs or illteracy or poverty or what so ever]
   has grown. They have equal access to Jobs, Education, Electoral rights,
   fundamental rights etc,. 

   HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT OF WHAT the LIFE OF A NON-MUSLIM in any ISLAMIC 
   COUNTRY  could be? Just, have you ever given it a thought? Especially 
   for Hindus?

   In Saudi Arabia, a Diplomatic bahg was searched and the officer found a 
   Bhagavat Gita. That book was destroyed and trashed in the dust bin. 
   An arya Samaji  was reading "SATYA ARTHA PRAKASHIKA" in a hotel room. The
   attendant saw and told to the lobby  manager. The Indian was put behind 
   bars, the book destroyed. THat is the treatment, just  a small sample. 

   Whaht  damn it, what equal oppurtunities are you talking about??

>  AND COURTS HAVE BANNED ENTRY of ANY MUSLIM in to the VICINITY of that 
>>  place. Though these do not matter to people like YOU, these are acknowledged
>>  facts. By the way, yesterdays REUTERS reports have said that 40,000
>>  Hindus (sir please note NOT MUSLIMS) have offered their prayers there.
>
>deleted:-
>
>>  Ram mandir is just a begining. It is the first of the THREE temples being 
>>  demanded (Ayodhya, Mathura and Varanasi). If fools (may I say who) try to 
>>  deny the hindus their  rightful claims then it will become a matter of 
>>  more than THREE THOUSAND TEMPLES which have been destroyed and some
>>  illegal structures which have been constructed.
>
>Injustice is to have the decission before the trial.  if the" temples will be"
>before the judgment then where is trial where is justice?

   What trial. ARE YOU ARROGANT or stupid to ignore the court orders and their
   content. The courts have un-equivocally said that NO MUSLIM CAN ENTER IN TO
   THE VICINTY OF THE SHRINE, some within 300 meters or something. THE 
   COURTS  HAVE UPHELD THE RIGHT OF HINDUS TO OFFER THEIR PRAYERS TO 
   THEIR GOD SRI RAMA in the PREVIOUS STRUCTURE AND THE PRESENT STRUCTURE
   CONTRUCTED ON DEC 6th 1992.

>>  Ina Rama Rajya  there is no place for injustice. Not even in the name of 
>>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  minorities. (Please  note the incident RAMA had to punish THATAKI, ignoring
>>  the fact that she is woman to uphold the JUSTICE and the LAW of the  Land).
>
>>>Prakash
>
>Destruction of that masjid is the land mark of the Indain futre. I dont need
>to tell what it looks like.  You destroy every masjid as you wish you are the
>one who will pay the price not any body else.

  INDEED. BUT WIT HA SAMLL CORRECTION. The even is a turning point in Indian
  history. FOr the first time Hindus have come out open to challenge the 
  onslaught Islamic crusades and other things. They have in the past ONE 
  THOUSAND YEARS told for the first time, if MUSLIMS  have to stay in this
  country, then let them stayt with equal status. They have for the first time
  showed that they have not forgotten the agonies of the past ONE THOUSAND years.

  Hope you understand what I have said, without any Bias. 

  In case you want to prove something on the net, please verify the facts 
  before you utter something. Anyway, I'm ready to look at your side of the 
  argument. But before that let us first acknowledge the ARCHAELOGICAL SURVEY 
  OF INDIA facts. 

  Please do your research. It takes not more than FIFTY TO TWENTY minutes to 
  search and find these things in Your university library.


-Indu.
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|  My  views expressed above are made on a PERSONAL basis              |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
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