From: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Subject: Re: speed traps on 2222
Reply-To: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Organization: Henry's Laughing Gas Co., Inc.
	<288@zx11.cactus. <924@rider.UUCP>
Distribution: austin
Date: 09 Nov 92 22:12:03 GMT

In article <924@rider.UUCP> joe@rider.cactus.org (Joe Senner) writes:
>petonic@hal.com
>]OK -- let's look up the word "dangerous":
>
>let's it'll help me prove my point...
>
>]<WEB>dan-ger-ous \'da^-nj-(e-)res\ adj
>]<WEB>1: exposing to or involving danger
>]<WEB>2: able or likely to inflict injury
>
>this doesn't sound like a road to me, or a pinto for that matter. it
>sounds a lot more like the definition of a person.
>
>today I stood by a curve in a road. I stood there for hours. the road
>wasn't hurting me so I left.
>
>tomorrow I'll stand next to a pinto. I intend to stand there for hours.
>hopefully this time I'll walk away bloodied so I can learn to agree with you.

You've got a lot of free-time on your hands, Joe.  Oh that my life would
be as laid back as yours.

I still maintain that a road can be dangerous, especially when you factor
in how people drive.  People *don't* pay 100% attention, nor do they
drive entirely within their limits. 

*You* may, and for that, I applaud you.  We need more drivers like you.
However, you're a fool if you think everyone has the attentiveness and
experiences you do.

>earlier I stood by the road for hours. I guess the road wasn't hazardous
>since I came to no harm and no disaters befell me, like the road sensing
>my presence and flipping over on top of me.

Again, far too much time on your hands.

>]>only when used improperly. if you're incapable of correctly navigating 
>]>that section of the road, then it's your fault. you should have chosen 
>]>a route that you are capable of.
>]You're assuming, of course, *perfect* conditions.  There's a first
>]time on 2222 for everyone. 
>
>how am I assuming that? what I said applies to any and all conditions.
>that first time shows up when that person fails to recognize his limits
>for the conditions.

Shit happens, Joe.  Look at the accident counts on 2222.  Look at the
numbers.  Do I have to hit you over the head with a tombstone and
statistics book to prove it?

>]You're also assuming restraint on the part of the driver.  For whatever
>]macho reasons, people don't drive within their abilities and *other*
>]people's abilities.  Especially in Texas, where the ego reigns.
>
>this is simply an education problem.

Ahhh, eh, ahem.  Just like the AIDS problem is simply an education problem.
Believe me, there are more people driving outside of their limits (using
purely ideal terms here) than there are people having unprotected sex.

>]No -- it's an entirely *healthy* attitude.  *You*, personally, aren't going
>]to change many people's behaviour.
>
>again I say that's a pretty pessamistic attitude. I'd be willing to bet
>that someone once told bill clinton that he personally wasn't going to
>change many people's attitudes. I might also say that's a pretty immature
>attitude. do you also go around telling people, "don't bother voting, your
>vote won't make a difference anyway". let's give up on things before we
>try, the problem is to big to fix. you sound like a real go getter to me.

Pick your battles, Joe.  Why spend time on things that are going to
have a low-reward to high-investment ratio?  Also, cease with the
name calling, it doesn't do a thing to prove your point.

>]This reminds me of my frustration when I first moved to Texas.  I came
>]from L.A. and though the drivers were fast and fairly agressive, there
>]was usually a reason for their actions.  They were also a hell of a lot
>]more attentive.  When I first moved to Austin, I wanted to buy a junker
>]Monte Carlo or something and teach these slackfaces how to drive.
>
>there's that immature macho attitude showing :-)

It's more frustration than anything.  But then, a couple of thorazine
shots a day, and I learned to accept what I couldn't change, namely
other people's driving habits.

>]I'm entirely for making more stringent tests, and stiffer penalties for
>]things like unsafe passing, lack of signals, tailgaiting (failure to 
>]maintain safe distance), blowing off stop signals and signs, ...  In short,
>]things that tend to result in accidents.
>
>agreed. I've even started to compose my own version of what I believe 
>should be the required process for obtaining a driving license in the
>state of texas. I'll post it to the net before I send it to the DPS.

Cool.  I'd like to look it over and see how much we agree on things.

>]I agree.  So let's do it.  But let's do that BEFORE making any rash
>]changes on the road systems.  It would be a bloodbath, otherwise.
>
>I don't want to make any changes to the road system, I want to STOP the
>changes that are being made! they're being made because of poorly trained
>drivers!

Are you still maintaining that straightening out 2222 is stupid?
There are people getting killed there, left and right.  Forget
idealism over the cost of lives, there's a tangible (business) worth
of a human life and I think that 2222 has reached the intersection
of cost to correct vs. lives taken.

>]>]Hell, drivers around here lack the muscle coordination and cohesive
>]>]thought necessary to use turn signals, 
>]>the only reason they don't is because they LEARNED not to.
>]What ever happened to the Personal Responsibility kick that we were just
>]on?  
>
>I don't understand the point of your question. 

You sounded high-and-mighty towards being responsible for your actions.
Lack of education is no excuse when you've got a reasoning mind
on your head.  Certainly not in the simple case of using turn-signals.

How many times have you seen two cars that are in lanes 1 and 3, and
they both want to get into lane 2 at the same time, but none of them
use signals?  I can't believe their looks of dumbfoundness when they
jump back because the other car is moving towards them?  One such
experience should "educate" them, but they rarely learn.  That's life.

>]I take 2222 pretty fast, but then I've got a SAAB turbo with excellent
>]suspension, and I'm fairly coordinated and have good reactions.  I'm
>]26, now...  by the time I'm 35, my reactions will have slowed.
>]When
>]I'm 55, if I tried to push the envelope out as far as I do now, I'd
>]be a dead man.   
>
>pretty pessimistic attitude of your own abilities, but then I guess you're
>just a pessimist by nature...

No -- let me correct that.  In 34 years, I expect to have the exact
same muscle reactions as I do now.  Yeah, that's it.  And I'll be
taller and more fit.  And beautiful, that's right, a beautiful person.
I'll be rich, and powerful.  And famous.  I'll have women *crawling*
over my body in search of where I keep my perfect driving abilities.
In short, I'll be the same as Joe Senner.  :-)

-pet-
--
Michael A. Petonic	       petonic@hal.com		       +1-512-794-2855
        HaL Computer Systems International, Ltd. -- A Bermuda Corporation
                     Director of Dangerous Activities  [ACK to GeoffK@ism780c]
				 Austin, Texas
                          "No balls, no blue chip."