HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Path: CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!ncar!csn!teal.csn.org!sbrock
   From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
   Sender: news@csn.org (news)
   Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org
   Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
   References: <C01uB5.2Mo@csn.org> <1992Dec30.060453.29924@netcom.com>
   Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:41:22 GMT
   Lines: 5


   I got lots of feedback on this one, and as I have explained to those who
   left me E-mail, I do not agree with Smith's ideas.  The current curricular
   bias toward consumption, though, is unsustainable, and the book is in that
   regard a contribution to the discussion of ways to change it.

I don't understand what is being asserted here.  Is it being asserted
that American consumption is unsustainable or is a curricular bias
of some kind being complained about.

I understand the former contention and regard it as false and will
certainly oppose it being put on the same level as the idea that
murder is wrong.  Is the latter just a misstatement?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:02:10 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:04:36 GMT
>FROM:   Dani Zweig <dani@netcom.com>
>
>"Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>:
>>Education (in all actually existing cases) involves something that might 
>>be called, neutrally, the transmission of values. [....]

>... Until relatively recently, most educators didn't think
>in terms of transmitting values; many or most honestly believed what
>they were teaching to be value-free...
>
>There's a succession from "we're just teaching facts and skills and 
>scholarship" to "you don't realize it, but you're also teaching values" to 
>"and other values that you don't teach also have validity" to "we should be 
>teaching my values and not yours".  I think it's meaningful to use the
>term 'indoctrination' to distinguish the last of these stances from the
>preceeding ones.
>

I don't think you can teach a value without teaching that its opposite 
is "invalid"; this seems a mere matter of logic. Schoolchildren are 
nowadays taught that racism and intolerance are bad things, but there 
are plenty of racists and bigots in the society; these people's values 
are simply stigmatized and excluded, and this, I'm sure we all agree, is 
as it should be. But it wasn't always so, and one could, if one chose, 
say that what happened to change it was that a group of militant 
antiracists and totalitarian tolerationists took over the schools and 
excluded all points of view but their own. Of course this would rather 
miss the point: what happened was a larger change in social attitudes -- 
not accomplished without struggle -- and the battle over curricula was 
simply part of the larger Kulturkampf. In practice, one can't isolate 
the two. 

*Of course* people who are trying to change values will try to get 
theirs into the schools, and the people who like the old ones will try 
to keep them out. There just isn't any Archimedean point outside the 
struggle from which one can decide, in a value-free way, what's 
legitimate value transmission and what's indoctrination. My values are 
going to seem like indoctrination to John McCarthy, if they ever work 
their way into his kids' curriculum, as his would to me -- or rather, I 
should say, as his *did* to me, when I was in high school a few decades 
ago in a small Southern town.

--Michael Smith
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment
From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Subject: Re: Sacred mountains of the World by Edwin Bernbaum
Reply-To: mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:44:15 GMT

>|> How can a mountain be sacred and be climbed at the same time? 
> 
> You have a very narrow definition of "sacred". Perhaps the climbing of the
>mountain is itself a sacred act.

Not by someone not party to that religion! Come on! This is like opening up
Navaho sacred areas to Sierra Club hikes. Are you in favor of that, too???
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:19:51

Unable to convince enough adults, this propagandist wants children
to be indoctrinated.  What he doesn't realize is that such attempts
at indoctrination have always blown up in the next generation.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky alt.books.reviews:118 rec.arts.books:23347
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Silicon Mirage by Aukstakainis and Blatner (virtual reality)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 03:16:51 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <BzH3Ay.ECx@csn.org> sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock) writes:
)     Q: What was the first virtual reality device to be used in a
)        U.S. movie?  We all know Bill Gibson was the first to do so
)        in print. 

	No, he wasn't. Vernor Vinge's "True Names" predates _Neuromancer_
by several years. _The Dueling Machine_, by Ben Bova, is even earlier if
I'm not mistaken. There may well be examples that are earlier yet. Gibson
is merely the best-known, not the first.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |      "Hey, mister! Your ninja's dragging!" 
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | 
goldfarb@soda.berkeley.edu |
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
Subject: Mother Earth by Judith Boice
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:52:32 GMT

MOTHER EARTH: THROUGH THE EYES OF WOMEN PHOTOGRAPHERS AND WRITERS,
edited by Judith Boice.  Sierra Club Books, 100 Bush St., 13th
Floor, San Francisco, CA  94104.  Illustrated.  142 pp., $20.00
paper.  0-87156-556-0

                             REVIEW

     The spotlight here is more on the photographers than the
writers, but that's all right.  These seventy remarkable portraits
are a testament to the worth of the female perspective.  And worth
is an important part of this examination, as women photographers
are frequently paid less for their work then their male counter-
parts.
     The book is divided into five sections: Mineral Realm, Plant
Realm, Animal Realm, Human Realm, and Oneness.  Excerpts from
writers such as Diane Ackerman, Rachel Carson, Gretel Ehrlich,
Joyce Carol Oates, Leslie Marmon Silko, and Ann Zwinger introduce
each section, with shorter passages residing next to the photo-
graphs.
     The prints link the feminine imagination to camera craftsman-
ship.  Even the cover is evokes a feminine image - milky white sand
dunes which convey the idea of a woman's flat stomach and navel. 
From the fantastic "Full Moon Over Cholatse, Nepal" (Jenny Hager),
to the texture of "Raven Tracks" (Barbara Brundege), to the
inspiration of "Wolf Song" (Heather Park Fentress) which my
daughter has hanging in her room, we come to see that there is much
to celebrate in the vision of women photographers.  
     Other photographers include Peggy Bauer, Sonja Bullaty, Lara
Hartley, Debi Ottinger, Brenda Tharp, and Linde Waidhofer.

Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk,environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Sacred mountains of the World by Edwin Bernbaum
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:28:50

In article <1992Dec30.154106.20354@pbhye.PacBell.COM> mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman) writes:

   Xref: CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU rec.arts.books:55587 sci.environment:26947
   Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk,environment
Path: CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!stanford.edu!ames!pacbell.com!pbhye!mjvande
   From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
   Reply-To: mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
   Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
   Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:41:06 GMT
   References: <C01uEr.2xD@csn.org>

   >feet high.  There are those who go so far as to claim records for
   >climbing them in the least amount of time.  Bernbaum's new release
   >is just the item for those with loftier goals:  climbing all of the
   >sacred peaks.
   >     In this paperback edition of "Sacred Mountains of the World,"
   >readers are guided through the mystical mountains of the world and
   >the religions that have adopted them as spiritual points of
   >reference.  Included are Annapurna (Himalayas), T'ai Shan (China),
   >Mt. Fuji (Japan), Ayers Rock (Australia), Mt. Athos (Greece), Mt.
   >Sinai (Egypt), Mt. Zion (Israel), the San Francisco Peaks (South-
   >western U.S.), and a multitude of others.

   Just like the Sierra Club: use the sacred peaks for their own pleasure!
   How can a mountain be sacred and be climbed at the same time? Is 
   nothing sacred to the Sierra Club? (except their own pleasure)

Let's you and him fight.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<C02rE0.CJ@news.iastate.edu>
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:07:31

Michael McDonald asks:

     Do you mean to tell me that with generations of kids having
     been profoundly socialized to blithely accept all sorts of
     thinks of dubious value (like most of America's wars), you
     can genuinely get up in arms at the prospect of kids being
     socialized to "understand the social costs of environmental
     degradation"?  (Wow! sounds so insidious it must be a
     Satanic plot or something!)

     Maybe that jerk Pat Buchanan was right after all, maybe this
     *is* a war for America's soul, if such socialization can
     really strike you as "radical."

     Truly amazed,
      michael mcdonald

I doubt Michael McDonald is actually amazed, since proponents of
indoctrination have often argued that all schooling is indoctrination
anyway, and therefore when their side has the power, there is no
reason not to lay it on thick.

I have been reading "Generations" by William Strauss and Neil Howe,
which someone recommended on rec.arts.books.  It tells us that
strongly ideological generations are always disappointed in their
successors' lapses from the true faith and try to make up for it
with intensified discipline.  The Puritans carried it to the
extent of killing witches.  If we look at the campaign to impose
political correctness, of which the current environmental indoctrination
campaign is a part, we can see that it will pass.  Fortunately,
the Woodstock generation had only a minor flirt with terrorism
and probably won't actually kill anyone with its present
institutional power.

According to the schedule predicted by Strauss and Howe, my seven year
old son is in a generation fated to great achievement like the World
War II generation that has had the Presidency since the end of WWII.

Me, I belong to the "silent generation" that immediately followed
the "civic generation" that won WWII, built the highway system
and the space program and established the U.S. as the world's leading
country.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books
From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
Subject: Re: Silicon Mirage by Aukstakainis and Blatner (virtual reality)
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:43:32 GMT

I've gotten lots of replies over the earliest use of virtual reality,
either on film or in print.  The earliest author mentioned so far is Plato.
                                  -- Steve
Xref: sparky alt.books.technical:380 sci.math:17393
From: sjha+@cs.cmu.edu (Somesh Jha)
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.math
Subject: High Prices of Math Books. I am pissed.
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:48:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bzs1Kr.I4v.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Hi Folks:

Just wanted to bitch about something. I called McGraw-Hill about
buying the following book:

Real and Complex Analysis  By W. Rudin

Guess what! the book costs $60.00. Some people informed me that the
same book in Europe and Asia is available as a paperback and for a
lot less money. McGraw-Hill informed me that they don't have this
book in paperback. These price guaging tactics has pissed me off
(not that I can do anything about it). Just wanted to bitch about
it.

Does anybody know how to order from the European or Asian counterpart
of McGraw-Hill.

One more thing if you have an old copy (third edition) of the book
and are willing to part with it, send me e-mail.

Somesh
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.math
From: sundar+@cs.cmu.edu (Sundar Vallinayagam)
Subject: Re: High Prices of Math Books. I am pissed.
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:49:57 GMT


>Guess what! the book costs $60.00. Some people informed me that the
>same book in Europe and Asia is available as a paperback and for a
>lot less money. McGraw-Hill informed me that they don't have this
>book in paperback. These price guaging tactics has pissed me off
>(not that I can do anything about it). Just wanted to bitch about
>it.

The paperback editions of books by McGraw-Hill are NOT for sale
within the US/Canada.  These editions, called International
Student Edition (ISE), are low-priced versions of the original
for sale in certain specific regions.  The same holds for other
publishers like Prentice-Hall, John-Wiley, Macmillan, etc.
If you give them the ISBN # of the paperback edition and
order the book (in the US) you will get a reply stating that
they don't have marketing rights for the paperback edition within
the US.  So when McGraw-Hill informed you about "paperback not
being available" they meant "not for sale within the US."

If they can sell paperback versions in the international
market why can't it be done within the US, one might ask.
That is a different issue altogether...


-- 
**************************************************
ramli@orca.ele.uri.edu
**************************************************
From: an1060@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical
Subject: Book Wanted...
Date: 26 Dec 92 16:57:55 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.books.technical

X-Anon-To: alt.books.technical


 
Hello All,
 
Does anyone have a copy of:
 
Mathematics Applied to Continuum Mechanics, by Segel & Handelman.
 
For those who attended RPI, this is the book used for Foundations of
Applied Mathematics II (FOAM II).
 
I am looking for an original copy, i.e. published by Macmillan,
the book is black hardcover with green lettering (yes, quite unattractive)...
 
If you have one in very good condition, please contact me.
 
Respond to:  mantell@ams.sunysb.edu
 
Thanks...
 
Abe Mantell
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: alt.books.technical
From: knight@netcom.com (John Knight)
Subject: Looking for a good CSG book
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:23:36 GMT

I'm looking for a good book on Constructive Solid Geometry(CSG)
or Boundary Representation(BREP).  I want something I can learn
from, with examples and so forth (Not a reference book).

I would like to hear from someone who has learned CSG/BREPs out
of such a book, and highly recommends it.

Thanks,
knight@netcom.com
Sunnyvale, CA
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
knight@netcom.com  
Sunnyvale, CA      Wanted: Employment as a 3D graphics programmer
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,misc.books.technical
From: farzadeh@ee.ualberta.ca (Hassan Farzadeh)
Subject: C/C++ for Expert Systems (wanted)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:58:49 GMT


Hello netters,

We have a book:
		C/C++ for EXPERT SYSTEMS
   Author:	David Hu
   Publisher:   MIS Press
Which comes with program listings on DISKETTE, but we can not find the
diskette.  I tried to call the MIS press and their phone number is
disconnected.  Does anybody know the publisher's new phone number or
where I can buy the source code?
Also, I like to purchase some other related books.

						Thank you 
_________________________________________________________________
  Hassan Farzadeh                email: farzadeh@ee.ualberta.ca            
Chemical Engineering                    voice: (403) 492-7433
University of Alberta, Canada           fax:   (403) 492-2811
_________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky alt.books.technical:398 sci.math:17454
From: hdev@dutiai.tudelft.nl (Hans de Vreught)
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.math
Subject: Re: High Prices of Math Books. I am pissed.
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:31:20 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia) writes:

>Xerox copies (A4 size) are $0.05 per page; with two pages per A4 it
>takes $11.3 for 452 pages.
>(Though, I do not have plans to copy book(s) -- this was just an
>example.)

Don't you forget the $3.50 * 452 = $1582 you have to pay to the publisher if
you copy the book :-). Copying is allowed only if you pay the $3.50 for *each*
page (the $3.50 is what is customary nowadays). I'm curious if anybody have
paid the $3.50 per page or if it is only to scare of pirates.
--
Hans de Vreught                          | John von Neumann:
hdev@dutiba.twi.tudelft.nl               | Young man, in mathematics
Delft University of Technology (TWI-ThI) | you don't understand things,
The Netherlands                          | you just get used to them.
Xref: sparky alt.books.technical:376 misc.books.technical:1823
From: wilfried@vnasws.enet.dec.com (Wilfried Bergmann)
Subject: searching for Numerical Math book
Reply-To: wilfried@vnasws.enet.dec.com (Wilfried Bergmann)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:24:25 GMT


I'm searching for good books on "Numerical Math" - special emphasis on
algorithmic presentations, error boundary estimation, concrete examples
with solutions. It should be possible to read only the chapter relevant
to a particular numerical problem and implement the described algorithm.

I want to use the book to develope numerical algorithms on computers.

I have the following book "Einfhrung in die Numerische Mathematik I & II@"
by Stoer & Bulirsch, Springer Verlag (i.e. "Introduction to Numerical Math"
but are NOT satisfied because it doesn't provide help on what problems you
might encounter when implementing the described algorithms.

Recently I bought a book from the "Schaum Series" on numerical algebra by
someone from Boston University, but at least the German version of this
book is FULL OF ERRORS!

Sorry if my English is not correct on math terms, but I hope you understand
what I'm looking for.

Thanks for any help!

Regards, Wilfried

PS: I'm able to read English math texts and will be in Boston around March.
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical
From: dwsmith@bilbo.encore.com (Dwight Smith)
Subject: WANTED: "DEBUGGING C" by Robert Ward, (Que Publ.)
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:06:02 GMT
Keywords: C

If you've got it and want to sell it, I'll pay shipping.

Thanks you
D. Smith
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.physics
From: phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert)
Subject: Wanted: Schouten, Ricci Calculus. Springer 1954.
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Constance
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 09:56:26 GMT

Wanted for purchase: (Readers of sci.physics please excuse.. :))

J.A. Schouten: Ricci Calculus, An introduction to tensor analysis and its
 geometrical applications. Second edition. Springer Verlag Berlin...
 1954.

This fine book is still an excellent introduction and reference to the 
subject. Although I usually can have a look in our University library 
whenever I want, I'd really like to own this book. 

Any offers by E-mail please. 
-
 Hartmut Frommert                 <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --
From: an1060@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical
Subject: Parallel Algorithms
Date: 26 Dec 92 18:21:37 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.books.technical

X-Anon-To: alt.books.technical


Hello,

I have the following book for sale:

Analysis & Design of Parallel Algorithms: Arithmetic & Matrix Problems
by Lakshmivarahan & Dhall, 1990.

It is in new condition (the binding will "crack" when opened)!!!

Publishers Price: $44....I ask: $35

Please respond to:  mantell@ams.sunysb.edu

Thanks

Abe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: alt.books.technical
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: books/articles on DNS & sendmail
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:55:54 GMT

tabata@dcl.co.jp (Super Y.S.T.) writes:
: I am looking for detailed documents (other than RFC's and manuals come with
: the system) on the following subjects;
: 
: 1) how to set up DNS
: 
: 2) how to write/modify sendmail.cf
: 
: Any info will be appreciated.
: 
: Thanks.
: 
: --
: Yoshikazu Tabata

O'Reilly's (the Nutshell people) have a book out called DNS and BIND.
I haven't gotten very far but it appears to be standard nutshell
quality. They are at ora.com (don't know who to write to there) 
or try info@clbooks.com (Computer Literacy Bookstore).

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Xref: sparky alt.books.technical:390 sci.math:17419
From: mkant+@cs.cmu.edu (Mark Kantrowitz)
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.math
Subject: Re: High Prices of Math Books. I am pissed.
Date: 25 Dec 92 23:18:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bzu8rD.1z1.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Dover books also aren't as esoteric as you make it seem. The books
they sell sell well. If a textbook sells more than 5,000 copies, it's
doing very well indeed. I believe nearly every book Dover sells is
just such a "bestseller".

--mark
Newsgroups: alt.books.technical,sci.math