From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: smalltalk on SLS (was Re: SLS update: missing make)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:28:17 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to jjctc@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (James C. Tsiao):
>In article <2B5CD671.14307@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>They can ask someone in the know to tell them what they need.
>
>Yes, but the E-mail and Usenet connections cost money, too, just like ftp.

For the relevant messages, pennies.

James quotes the SLS README:
>    Tiny base system:          9 Meg  (Series 'a')
>    Main base system:         25 Meg  (Series 'a', 'b' and 'c')
>    Main base system + X11:   45 Meg  (Series 'a', 'b', 'c' and 'x')

I didn't realize that Peter uses the term `base' to describe the
entire "b" series.  Granted, that usage is misleading, and the README
could use some elaboration.  But then, in my experience, no document
can be both complete and up-to-date for long.

>>The solution is _knowledge_.  Don't blindly download, as I recall
>>suggesting in my first article.  Ask before fetching.
>
>Learning is a continual process.  At what point do you suggest that new
>users should say to themselves "Yep, I've got enough knowledge.  I can
>now fire up ftp"?

They can proceed after asking the question, "What do I really need?"
and getting an answer from a trusted source, I suppose.  No one need
understand the details of SLS's operation just to use it.  But any
installer needs some knowledge of what's important and what isn't.

>I would think that reading all the text files available for downloading
>would be sufficient.

Well, if the existing documents aren't up to snuff, you could always
write something yourself.  That's how these things get done, you know.

>I don't think it is necessary for them to post to c.o.l. and ask what
>is the minimum required to get X11 running when picking and choosing
>from the different series.

Actually, you are mistaken.  It _is_ necessary.  Or did you mean that
you think it _shouldn't_ be necessary?  If so, then my previous
suggestion about doing something instead of complaining is doubly
applicable.

>>I do not object if Peter chooses to make such a separation.  My
>>objection is to pompous statements which attempt to dictate how a
>>dedicated volunteer goes about his generous and unpaid work.
>
>"Attempt to dictate"?

I overstated my case.  Allow me to try again.

You complained about Peter's policies.  It was and is my perception
that your tone is one of injured complaint, and not of a grateful
recipient sharing a suggestion; and I resent such an attitude directed
at a helpful volunteer.  If I'm mistaken, well, these things happen in
text-only communication.

>Then, you, Mr. Salzenberg, wrote in followup to my questions:
>  "Pick and choose, man.  Use your brain."
>If any statement is 'pompous', it is that one.

No, it's not.  Condescending, perhaps, but not pompous.

>All of my 'pompous' statements are directed toward you, Mr. Salzenberg,
>usually mirroring a _specific_ 'pompous' statement made by you from a
>previous post.

So I'm responsible for the tone of your articles?  Ha.  No responsible
person attempts to absolve himself of the bad effects of his actions
by blaming the actions of others.  Irresponsible people, of course, do
it all the time.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"