HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: probreak@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (James Michael Chacon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: ps and /dev/kmem
Date: 18 Dec 1992 23:46:05 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: kitty.ksu.ksu.edu

zdenek@ksr.com (Zdenek Radouch) writes:
>If you want a really BAD example of what happens when one hacks /dev/kmem
>look no further than GNUmake. GNUmake needs access to the machine loading info,
>and it was designed to retrieve it from /dev/kmem rather than using a generic
>module that would retrieve it from wherever it can. This resulted in a design
>where GNUmake must run with euid=0 (at least at times that it accesses kmem),
>and toggle uid back whenever it touches real files. This is unfortunately
>impossible to do with a single executable (you need two, one suid) under POSIX
>or Sys V, so GNUmake will not work on these machines. The bad part is that
>since the whole /dev/kmem concept was so tightly built in, there is no way
>to fix this easily, a fix would require a major redesign and consequently
>they (FSF) won't even address this issue.

>my $.02
>-Z

What system do you run GNUmake on? It only has to run setgid kmem on most to
access /dev/kmem. I guess you could look at the code where it changes gids
and set up some races to allow you access to /dev/kmem. But, I don't see any
other problems with it.

James
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: esaffle@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ed Saffle)
Subject: re: boot problems under linux-0.99 (help!)
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:31:55 GMT

  I saw the start of a thread (posibly in mail) about problems booting
under 0.99, but I haven't seen any help for it.  I already know our
news is little flaky, and a lot behind, so could somebody who knows
the answer to this problem be kind enough to point me in the right
direction?

Thanks! 
  Ed
From: operjsl@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: [Q] Where THE LATEST ps sources?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 07:47:37 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: operjsl@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

Where the absolutely most up-to-date ps sources?  I have this problem.  
Recently I tried to upgrade from 0.98.5 to .99.  This required, of course,
recompiling the ps, w, top, etc. package.  The sources I have for these
are for 0.98.4.  All of the ps stuff seemed to work fine under .99, but
I couldn't get xdm to work.  So, I went back to 0.98.5 until I could get
some clues on xdm.  This once again, of course, required a recompilation
of ps et. al.  Well, ps works fine, but w does not.  The utmp and wtmp files
are not being updated.  When I open another xterm it creates a process on
ttyp2 for example, and this shows up on ps.  When I close the window, it
no longer appears on ps, but it still appears on w!  Also, 'last' hasn't
been longing my most recent logins lately.  Anyone have any clues?

Yes, I remembered to put the 0.98.5 source and system file back before
compiling ps again.

Jeffrey Little
operjsl@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu
From: mlo@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (--)
Subject: Re: Wish list for Christmas
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:28:26 +0000.
             <1992Dec18.002826.19540@unislc.uucp>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:15:55 GMT

[...]
 > :
 > : >What I would like to put on the wish list is for date(1) to update the
 > : >CMOS clock.  My system has a basically dead battery, so the clock
 > : >doesn't actually run when I shut it off.  When I restart the computer
 > : >(if it hasn't been too long) the result of a date is the same time at
 > : >which I shut the computer off.
 > :
[...]

IS date supposed to set the CMOS clock?  I've stayed away from it
because after each time I've used it, I'd find myself anywhere from
several minutes behind to somewhere back in May 1929.

I'd rather leave that sort of stuff to Michael J. Fox.

- Mike

--
Michael Lo
mlo@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: apm233m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: Not quite bug in math stuff
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:31:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.032953.4975@tc.cornell.edu>, kutcha@eos.acm.rpi.edu (Phillip Rzewski) writes:
> 
>     I don't do much stuff with math under Linux, so I never ran into this
> before. I'm sure someone else has come across this, it's probably quite
> documented somewhere. But it took me rather by surprise.
> 
>     Consider the program:
> 
> #include <stdio.h>
> #include <math.h>
> 
> int main(void)
> {
>   double d;
>   long l;
> 
>   d = pow(2.0, 1.0);
>   printf("%1.32f\n", d);
>   l = (long) d;
>   printf("%d\n", l);
> 
>   return 0;
> }
> 
>     And of course the output:
> 
> 1.99999999999999977795539507496869
> 1
> 
>     Now, I understand how keen it is that math software speeds things up
> by using logarithms, giving us results like this. However, I know that there
> are systems out there where one doesn't notice it quite so much. The
> program I was originally working with on Linux (not like the one above :) )
> was originally something I wrote under VAX C on a VMS system, and I got
> just what I thought in the long (in other words, 2).
> 
>     Of course, I was able to fix this by simply adding 0.5 to the double
> and then casting it to long. It just seems kinda icky to have to do it that
> way. I mean, this means that every person who tries to do something like I
> did above (which I would think is quite a few) would have to have this same
> weird thing happen to them and learn how to correct it.
> 
>     I'm not one to make demands or anything, but the math people might
> consider fixing this?

What version of the kernel and libraries are you using?
Using the FPU emulator with 0.98.6 (I don't have a co-processor), I get
2.00000000000000000000000 [etc]
with your program.

Perhaps you are using the obsolete 'soft' math libs.

Your question does raise a valid point though. It would certainly be
nice if the most accurate answer were always given for floating point
problems. Alas, this is simply not possible. The use of finite precision
arithmetic should always be accompanied by an appropriate degree of care.
Linux is often not bad for simple problems because it runs the co-processor
at ~64 bit precision (doubles are ~53 bit precision under Linux gcc).

However, even simple programs can give results which are worse than you
might expect. Consider the following little program:

#include <stdio.h>
void main(void)
{ double d;
  d = 1.0; d = d/3.0;
  printf("%g\n", 1.0-d*3.0); }

This will give a non-zero result (compile with no optimizations).

But if you try:

#include <stdio.h>
void main(void)
{ double d, e;
  d = 1.0; e = 3.0;
  printf("%g\n", 1.0-d/3.0*e); }

Then because the intermediate result 0.333333... is kept on the co-
processor stack in this case, a different result is obtained (it
happens to be zero).

-- 
---------------
Bill Metzenthen
Mathematics Department
Monash University
Australia
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: dennisf@miles.com (Dennis Flaherty)
Subject: [Q] C-Kermit 5A(188) without hardware flow control?
Organization: Miles, Inc.  Diagnostics Divis.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:06:09 GMT


I've compiled the new C-Kermit 5A(188) with and without networking
and beamed both binaries up to sunsite.  But I noticed when it ran
my .kermrc that there is no hardware RTS/CTS flow control in this
version (POSIX doesn't define flow control; not all unices support
it).

Is this a problem for sending files at higher speeds, especially
when running V.42 LAP-M error correction?  I would think RTS/CTS
would be essential.  Or maybe Linux's serial drivers always use it?
If it's necessary and a fix is easy, I'd be happy to recompile and
beam up new binaries.

-- 
Dennis T. Flaherty       dennisf@Miles.com
Miles, Inc.              dflahert@chekov.helios.nd.edu
Diagnostics Division (Diabetes B.U.)
My doctor says Mylanta, but my boss says Alka-Seltzer!
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: qumqats@citrus.SAC.CA.US ( Joel M. Baldwin )
Subject: Re: EXT fs
Organization: Citrus Grove Public Access ( 916 ) 381-5822    Sacramento CA.  USA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:43:52 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:
: dd435157@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Dan Doner) writes:
: >Why does the FAQ still call the ext fs beta?  Is it any more beta than the
: >rest of linux?
: 
: The author of the extended filesystem calls it alpha (there was just
: recently an announcement for version alpha 11).

Is anyone using the efs having any problems with bad directorys appearing?
I end up having to reboot every few days to run efsck just to clean up 
the bad directorys that keep showing up.  

I'm running 0.98pl4 with the efs 10.1 code and the latest C-news.
I figure the cause of the bad dirs is either a bug still somewhere in the
efs code, or somewhere in C-news.

Am I the only one still having this problem?

-- 

Joel M. Baldwin
System Administrator,  Citrus Grove Public Access
N6NPL      H ( 916 ) 383-9470        W ( 916 ) 452-1481
uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!qumqats    Sacramento CA.   USA.
qumqats@citrus.SAC.CA.US						/\../\

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: ssandke@ADS.COM (Steve Sandke)
Subject: X11 and MS Bus Mouse woes
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mtn. View, CA (415) 960-7300
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:06:34 GMT

I've got linux 0.98pl5 up and running, but I'm having all sorts of trouble
getting X11 to run.  I've got a no-name VGA card, so color is out for now.  
I'm just trying to get X386mono up and running.  Here are my problems:

1) When I boot up, I see messages telling me that Logitech, ATI, and MS
   mice have all been detected and installed.  Is that normal?  All I
   have is an MS bus mouse.  (Strangely enough, every once in a while
   I'll boot up and I'll see that it detected ATI and Logitech, but no
   MS mouse)

2) When I start X11 in mono mode (640x480 or 800x600 - it doesn't matter
   which), the screen:
   - Gets a stipple pattern for a second, then goes black.
   - twm starts up, with a little "xclock' label appearing in an icon box
     in the upper left.
   - A little white outline box comes up with a "corner" cursor in its
     upper left corner.  This is, I assume, twm asking me where to place
     the xclock.
   - No matter what I do, the mouse won't respond.  
   
What am I doing wrong?  I looked in the FAQ, but didn't see anything about
this?
From: pmcgilla@hp.uwsuper.edu (Patrick L. McGillan)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Boot problems with 0.99
Date: 16 Dec 1992 10:47:29 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hi,
I see many of you are have boot problems after compiling the new 0.99
kernel. I did to, until I hand patched the files that Linus said should
be fixed. DID YOU? Best I can recall there are either two or three patches.
My 0.99 works great, sort of. Lilo is dead and I have to boot from floppy.

--
Patrick L. McGillan
Computer Systems Specialist
University Of Wisconsin     Ph:  (715) 394-8191
Superior, Wisconsin         pmcgilla@uwsuper.edu

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid)
Subject: Re: PCNFSD for Linux
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:07:13 GMT

In article <702.404.uupcb@hpbs938.boi.hp.com> ed.boston%phant@hpbs938.boi.hp.com (Ed Boston)  writes:
>Does anyone know if there is a PCNFSD available for Linux?  I have been
>watching some of the discussions of Linux and would like to set it up,
>but I would need this ability for my needs.


I'll assume PCNFS is some sort of MS-DOS version of NFS...If I understand you 
correctly, you need to be able to use a Linux box as a NFS file server?  

Well there is a ALPHA-BETA nfsd for linux... It seems to be pretty stable
and support for it is included in the SLS distribution.  

I have heard of people using it with PC's in this sort of arrangement, so
I will assume it works.

As alpha software though, don't expect it to be trouble free. :)

jem.


-- 
Jonathan Magid     jem@sunSITE.unc.edu       sunSITE Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
From: dsc3pzp@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (Philip Perucci)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Switching off (was: How stable is extended filesystem?)
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:32 GMT
Organization: Naval Medical Research & Development Command

Regarding loss of CMOS info on 486 systems, while this does not happen
on my AMI 486/33 ISA motherboard, I remember reading about shadow RAM
for BIOS and VIDEO.  It would be worth turning these off in CMOS setup
to see if problem goes away.
-- 
===========================================================================
  phil perucci      | "Any opinions expressed are solely my own views and 
  ssb1pzp@digex.com |  do not reflect the position of any organization"
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: cummings@hammer.prime.com (Kevin Cummings)
Subject: Re: FAQ: Yes, the Dimond Stealth works in 1024x768
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:02:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.121717.12683@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, ctne_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Chris Newbold) writes:
> In <badger.724106648@phylo> badger@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Badger) writes:
> 
> >>   My Diamond Stealth works fine with 640x480x256, but I am unable to
> >>   get a higher resolution out of it. 
> 
> >>Uhoh, the poor wretch is S***t Out of Luck. 
> 
> >>The trick of getting the clock freq. right on Diamond Stealth is by
> >>doing some heavy, trade-secret, wizardry that the manufacturer won't
> >>talk about. This means that Linux won't support Diamond Sealth.
> 
> >It is time to clear up this confusion. The Diamond Stealth works fine
> >in 1024x768x256 -- the trick is to run Windows first (in 1024x768). This sets
> >the clocks.
> 
> >What we really need is a program that can set the clocks within Linux. I often
> >think the reason this hasn't been written is philosophical rather than
> 
> I think the easiest way to do this is to put a few more instructions in
> startup.S. Just kick it into 1024x768x256 and then back to text mode. At this
> point, you can still use the BIOS.

Yes, but setup.S is getting pretty full.  There's not much room left.
You'll probably want to removed some code and make it a custom patch.
 
> It's ugly, but at least you don't have to go back and boot DOS every time you
> need to reset the clocks...

Better would be to program the PLL directly through the IO ports.  I suspect that
this will require some special LINUX system calls that I am not yet familiar
with.

> Using Diamond Stealth happily at 1024x768x256,
> -Chris

=================================================================
Kevin J. Cummings                       ComputerVision Services
20 Briarwood Road                       500 Old Connecticut Path
Framingham, Mass.                       Framingham, Mass.
					
Home:  cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us	Work:  cummings@primerd.Prime.COM

Std. Disclaimer: "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration,
		  I've come to the conclusion that your new
		  defense system SUCKS..."   --  War Games
=================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: agc@weasel.demon.co.uk (Alan Charlton)
Subject: A keyboard problem
Reply-To: agc@weasel.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: nowhere in particular...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:20:09 +0000

I've been using 0.99 for a couple of days now with no major problems,
but there's something odd going on with the keyboard driver.  Under 0.98pl5
I set KDB_FLAGS = 0x80 so I could use the Alt key as a Meta-key in emacs,
and it worked fine.  However, now I've successfully compiled the 0.99 kernel
a few times with the same value for KBD_FLAGS and the Alt-key doesn't work
any more.

Help!

Alan.
-- 
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Alan Charlton, Bristol, England | If B.U.R.D. doesn't spell Bird |
| agc@cix.compulink.co.uk         | - what the hell does it spell? |
| agc@weasel.demon.co.uk          |                                |
| Tel:  +44 454 202706 (after 6)  | ---  W. R. Hearst              |
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: ckub11@zx1.Darkcrystal.Cyberspace (Marc Gutschner)
Subject: Future Domain & 0.98pl5
Reply-To: ckub11@zx1.HRZ.uni-dortmund.de
Organization: Universitaet Dortmund - Hochschulrechenzentrum
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:08:53 GMT


Hello Linuxers,

does anybody out there have any difficulties with Linux 0.98 patchlevel 5
SLS and Future Domain SCSI Controllers ?
When booting from the A1 disk, Linux just wont detect ANY drive !
Is this a problem with my drives or just a bug in the SCSI code ?
Please reply via email to ckub13@zx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE because I'll go
on my christmas holidays today :-)

cu,
Marc
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: pmacdona@sanjuan (Peter MacDonald)
Subject: Re: New SLS realease
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 18:53:25 GMT

In article <3334@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> nosilla@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Andrew J. Templin) writes:
>
>I have the next-to-most-recent release of SLS.
>
>Considering the troubles that seem to have popped up in the 
>newest release, should I upgrade or wait a while?
>
>EMail please.
>

(Ignoring the plea for email) 
The troubles with .99 seem mostly to be due to the fact that SLS had
two .99 releases, within one day of each other. 

The first release didn't have the two line patch, Linus subsequently 
posted.   What is amazing is how many people that downloaded the old
one.  So let me repeat my plea:

If you are even the slightest bit cautious, wait at least a week
before downloading SLS after an upgrade.  Just check the date
on the HISTORY file, and if it is at least a week old, you should
be ok.  

SLS does not have a beta/alpha test group.  It is just to large.  And
due to my retooling my system to gcc 2.3/libc.4.2/Interviews, I was
not able to test install the first .99 release.

In short, the upgrade to .99 should be ok now.

Peter
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Help wanted from someone who has UUCP & Linux working
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:12:09 GMT

Michael 'Moose' Dinn (dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca) wrote:

: Can you please send me mail to save bandwidth? I've had no success getting
: it up and running after 3 days of reading the docs and playing with it.

I've got it up and running ... yesssss??????
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

Who and what would you be if you went beyond your deepest fears?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Not quite bug in math stuff
From: Dmitry Teytelman <DMTSI@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 12 Dec 1992 23:11:45 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


In article <1992Dec13.032953.4975@tc.cornell.edu>, kutcha@eos.acm.rpi.edu
(Phillip Rzewski) says:
>
>    I don't do much stuff with math under Linux, so I never ran into this
>before. I'm sure someone else has come across this, it's probably quite
>documented somewhere. But it took me rather by surprise.
>
>    Consider the program:
>
Source deleted...
>
>    And of course the output:
>
>1.99999999999999977795539507496869
>1

I tried this program. It gives 2.00000000000000000000000000000000.
Are you using FPU or emulator? I have a 486, i.e. FPU.
-------
Dmitry

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid)
Subject: Re: I have an interesting question...
Keywords: scsi, adaptec, st01
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:18:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.061007.18888@cuug.ab.ca> jeremiah@cuug.ab.ca (Jerry Jeremiah 290-8941) writes:
>I want to know if, while we can mount dos volumes, can we mount disks
>that have been stacked with Stacker or DoubleSpaced with MSDOS 6.0?
>
>(btw, the MSDOS 6.0 is a beta version and is not out until next year)
>
>>>Jerry

There was a recent success story on this, and I'll try to post how to do
it from memory

(DISCLAIMER: I have never tried this and do not run stacker.  I suspect
this whole kludge could lead to you losing all of your data if something
goes wrong: THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK)

now that my butt is covered, lets try this.

get the dos emulator: it comes with SLS and other wise is in the ALPHA
section of the Linux archives (btw, this emulator is actually PRE alpha)

for DOS 5.0 (and 6.0? I don't know, but probably) and DR-DOS 6.0 find the lines
	
	printf("general protection\n");
	error=4;

and change 4 to 0.  this will keep some skull duggery from Microshaft from
crashing the emulator on startup (no flames please.  Microsoft's history
of providing these wonderful services in their OS's is well documented.
ask the FTC.)

now compile the emulator and set it up per its accompanying instructions.

with a dos system disk in the drive, run 

	dos a > errors.log

change directories to c: you should see LINUX.EXE which you should
run.  This will turn your dos partition (which should be mounted when
you start to /usr/dos) to a d: drive.

if you change there you should see all of your uncompressed files, including
STACKER.COM (or whatever it is called) and the big file that is really
your stacker volume.  run stacker.com.

this should do it.  again a disclaimer: i have neither tried this nor
think its a particularly good idea.  if you must go where angels fear to
tread then at least try it on some sort of test partition first.  the
emulator is *really* flakey and stacker is magical. flakey magic is dangerous!


good luck,
jem.



-- 
Jonathan Magid     jem@sunSITE.unc.edu       sunSITE Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
From: st1mb@jane.uh.edu (Supernaw-Issen, Daniel A.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: X + kermit + internal modem + mouse = ????
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:26 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I had the same problem.  What ended up happening, is that kermit when it
kicks up, defaults to /dev/ttys1.  Sooooo, if that is where you hang your 
mouse, down it goes.  The solution is to prempt this defaulting.  This is
accomplished by adding the line:
set line /dev/<serial port>
to your .kermrc file in your home directory. where <serial port> is *any* 
other port than the one you hang your mouse off of.  (the obvious thing is to 
set it to the port you hang your modem off of).  In any case, good luck.

Daniel

signature for hire.

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: jmaclean@fox.nstn.ns.ca (James MacLean)
Subject: Re: Prob: ELM from SLS.98p[56] = no password entry ?
Keywords: ELM PASSWORD PASSWD
Organization: Department of Education, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:07:41 GMT

In article <acornwal.3.724365490@fox.nstn.ns.ca> acornwal@fox.nstn.ns.ca (James MacLean) writes:
>From: acornwal@fox.nstn.ns.ca (James MacLean)
>Subject: Prob: ELM from SLS.98p[56] = no password entry ?
>Keywords: ELM PASSWORD PASSWD
>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:38:10 GMT
>ELM was working fine for me with 98p5 + Image from 98.6 but now that I have
>added some more of the additional 98.6 benefits (shadow passwords,etc...),
>ELM states that there is no password entry for every user except ROOT. What
>gives?
>
>JES
I have found that I could fix my problem by giving general read access to the
passwd file. Wrong way I imagine, but it worked. I looked for some docs on
this shadow securetty but have not come up with anything, where should I look
to get the low down?
JES
James MacLean
Department of Education
N.S., CAN.

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux