HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Black Agenda and Homosexuality Issues (was NAACP Crisis)
Date: 3 Apr 92 22:43:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: amhux2.1992Apr3.224307.12467
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA

In article <21fB02Wm0fnp01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com writes:
>In article <56759@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>
>>1) Homosexuality is not a chosen way of life.
>
>That is open for debate.  It depends on who you ask.

Usually, it's only open for debate if you ask someone who is
heterosexual.  I don't see why I should accept the word of a
heterosexual person that homosexuality is chosen.  Just as I would not
expect you to consider me an expert on the experience of being Black
in America, I don't put much stock in the words of heterosexual people
telling me what it's like to be homosexual.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Well, I've never been to heaven / but
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  I've been to Oklahoma ..."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /    -- Three Dog Night
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:4486 talk.politics.misc:17384
From: news@sequent.com (News on Muncher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Blacks Are Not Cost Effective
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:35:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr8.183504.14595
Distribution: usa
Organization: .

In article <1992Apr8.172730.6800@meaddata.com> lisat@meaddata.com (Lisa Turner) writes:

>|>   likely to commit criminal acts."
>
>     ... But, whites are more likely to be mass murderers and demise and
>     enslave whole races of people. She needs to check out what cost
>     her own race needs to bear.

  What makes you so certain that  she's caucasian?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:4430 soc.culture.asian.american:3306
From: dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Social Spending Constitutional? (was Re: Asian Immigrants)
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:20:48 GMT
 <YdrWPVG00Uh783h4Nn@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Apr5.041953.24958@agora.uucp> <MDAY.92Apr5184812@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu><z7zt#=c@rpi.edu>
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts From Captions of netnews.soc.culture.african.american:
 6-Apr-92  Re: Social Spending Constit..  Sean C. Cox@nuge101.its. (3142)   
> 
>I don't see where Congres (the moneybags of the Feds) has any right to 
>spend money on urban infrastructures, job training, drug rehab (except as
>a punishment for a drug-related crime perhaps), etc.  The 1st point about
>raisinf money for the "general welfare" is not a vaid argument by the
>fact that Congress is not allowed to spend money on such a thing (or any
>other entitlement program...).  
> 
>Since Congress is not granted authority for any spending (except for
>criminal, military, and commercial purposes) I don't see how Dean
>Calloway's (I hope it's attributed correctly) proposal could be 
>constitutional in any way.
> 
>Is that enough of an elaboration? 

Guy, no offense, but this is silly as hell.  Because it doesn't say in
the Constitution anything about building freeways or ballparks or
stadiums or giving loans to Chrysler and Amtrak, does that mean we're
prohibited from doing thaat too?  According to your logic, half the
things we do in this country are unconstitutional.

Geez,... unconstitutional...wow.

DCAL
From: mmoore@donald.cs.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Asshole needs clue coupon
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:50:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Apr15.225048.3484
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities ACM

In article <1992Apr14.220753.21014@sequent.com> kevinc@sequent.com writes:

$   I've been reading and posting to s.c.a.a since it started.

You say this as if that fact makes you special.

Malcolm Diallo Moore                       #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\      #----o
Computer Information Services          .___| |_|          `'''''''|  .___| |_|
System Co-Administrator		       |      The House Train     |  |	    The
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities  #|     r--------------p     |##|     r---
mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:4509 talk.politics.misc:17754
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Blacks Are Not Cost Effective
Date: Wed,  8 Apr 92 18:20:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Apr8.162200.10488@sequent.com>

... what's the point...

The original article blames all crime on men because men are
disproportionately disposed to commit crimes (which is true).

It looks like as a hack somebody inserted "black" instead of "male"
just for laughs (he also mentioned probably the only two categories
of crime, both white collar, where whites out-do blacks) just to
see what a reaction he would get.

This is interesting because many of soc.culture.african.american assert
that blacks are not at all more prone to crime (this is getting into
stereotypes vs. individuals and correlation vs. causation). While one
can make strained arguments that blacks are only in prison more because
the police pick on them more, this cannot be said for men, and makes
one all the more skeptical of the motives for "proving" that blacks do
not commit more crimes. (OK, OK, it's a social and income thing, not a
race thing, but crimes is still correlated with some races even if race
is not the cause)

Charging only males for crime wouldn't work since most women are
married to men, and we're all in this thing together. I would take the
position that the way to prevent more crime is to have stronger fathers.
As much as Ice-T says things which are pretty silly, I do agree that
a lack of strong male role models because of a welfare society that
encourages fatherless families is a primary cause of exploding crime
rates among males (lately the ladies have been catching up though, let's
hear it for equality for women...)
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Black Agenda and Homosexuality issue
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:30:27 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


     As one who happens to be both black and gay, I have to disagree.  Unless the message of the Civil rights movment is that humanity begins and ends with black folks, then perhaps the two (gay and black issues) are and should be dissacotiated.
     I know that I cannot cleave myself in half-one half black and one half gay.I know I no more chose my sexual orientation than I chose the color of my skin. I also know that both of these things cause me to have to face hatred and discrimination, even at the hands of my own (black) people.  I have been spit on and called "nigger" and I hav been spat on and called "faggot" and I know that both are equally hurtful and degrading.  Bigotry is bigotry, regardless of the group at which it is directed.  The sa



me goes for discrimination. Until we realize that all oppressions are connected and ARE the same thing, we won't change anything.
     If liberation and justice are going to be for black and heterosexual peopleonly, then I won't bother coming to the revolution.


     Terrance Heath
From: wrightb@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Enough about gay rights already:Post to alt.sex.homosexual
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:19:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

post all the talk about homosexuals on alt.sex.homosexual. They have a

newss group for this discussion too. for a minute I thought I was reading

that news group with all the talk about gays and gay rights. Give us BLAK

FOLX a break we can't fight for everybody's rights!!!!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Maury Povich Show: She Wants To Be White
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 06:56:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.005510.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> mills_j@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:
>      Or is your distinction for "white music" based on who listens to a
>certain type of music?  Is blues white music?  Every blues concert I've been
>to (from B.B. King to Bobby Bland) has had predominantly white audiances,
>and most blues performers (black or white) have at least some white mu-
>sicians backing them.  What about Jazz?  That thread's been covered al-
>ready.  And rap sure as hell isn't safe from white listeners.  Even seven
>years ago, when I was in high school in semi-rural PA, the locals would
>gather during lunch in the "Tobacco Use Area" and listen to the latest
>Run DMC on their boxes.  Even modern African music isn't white-free (see
>an earlier thread).  Why can't music just be music?  Can't we have at least
>one thing in this country that people aren't always trying to bleach or
>color?
>
Well, I make a distinction between the listening audience (fans) and the 
artists. I think rap is a good example whereby certain rappers have a large
white audience even though the artists are predominantly black; yet, most
importantly, rap stays true to a measure which separates "real" rap from
popularized degradations thereof. White rappers such as Third Bass, and less
so Beastie Boys, are accepted by many hip hop fans because they promote
their artistry within the rap genre, within the hip hop culture; it is the
same metric which is responsible for lack of recognition for Hammer and
Fresh Prince. So, in some sense, rap stands blind to color, though it is
clear that the genre is a telling story of facets of the black experience
within urban areas; and, more generally, rap reflects the urban experience,
period. As Boogie Down Productions points out, rap is not merely a voice, it 
is perhaps the last voice of black people, this being true for many urban
youths. It isn't a matter of colorizing the hip hop culture so 
much as it is a reflection of the artists who created it and who maintain
it; moreover, rap will probably remain a black art form. 

Third Bass insists that "real rap has got to endure," as do most REAL
rap artists. If you understand this mentality, which is paramount within the
hip hop community, then you understand why rap music
will never  be "just music."

Mc
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 06:48:30 EDT
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>   Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Black Agenda and Homosexuality issue

Thanks, Frank. That what I was trying to say along. Of course, there were alot
of side track flames, but that war is over I hope. At least it is for me.


******************************************************************
***                                                            ***
***  "No performer in any of the arts wants to move backwards; ***
***   few are content to stand still; many are eager to move   ***
***   ahead."                                                  ***
***                                                            ***
***                                      McCoy Tyner           ***
***                                    "Tender Moments"        ***
***                                                            ***
******************************************************************


Fred Rozenblad - Phryzzinian Man
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 09:13:10 -0400 
From: Dean Calloway <dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Read This! Another Article By The ACA
	<1992Apr16.172616.27254@athena.cs.uga.edu>

Excerpts From Captions of netnews.soc.culture.african.american:
16-Apr-92  Re: Read This! Another Arti..  Terrance Heath@athena.cs (2881)   
>(which I will concede are felt even 400 years later).  HOwever the current
>genereations who are grappling with racism and affirmative action are not
>the people who were directly victimized by nor directly responsible for
>slavery.  Those white students, then, who meet admissions requirements are
>being asked to surrender their opportunies as payment of a debt they 
>themselves to not owe , to another group who has no direct claim on payment

While I am not saying that unqualified blacks should be admitted to
programs, do you honestly think you are not directly affected by slavery
and its legacy?  Do you think that whites, by virtue of their skin
color, do not enjoy an advantage (relative to other groups) in their
personal dealings with institutions in America?  They reap the benefits
of slavery but are not responsible for the debt?

DCAL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: brs@boole.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blanche R. Steppe)
Subject: Re:black owned businesses
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:42:10 GMT


    The thread about who should patronize black businesses made me remember
my childhood.  This was in the days of segregation.  There was a Virginia law
that black people and white people could not sit together in public places.

    In some places black people could not patronize white owned stores.  So
black people had their own stores.  However, in Charlottesville we could go to
any stores (sometimes we didn't get waited on.)  There were several black
owned "mom and pop" grocery stores as well as other businesses.   Both blacks
and whites shopped at the grocery stores.  Lots of "well-to-do" white ladies
shopped at Inge's grocery.  The store opened in the late 1800's and closed in
the 1980's.  Booker T. Washington used to visit the Inge family.

    What I found to be interesting was barber shops.  There were 3 or 4 black
barber shops.  My uncle had several white customers.  Usually they were poor
and liked the cheaper prices.  Black barbers had to know how to cut all types
of hair because black people have all types of hair.

   There were several white barber shops.  Then there were the black owned
shops for white men.  I remember two of these shops.  The black barbers were
very light skinned, in fact they looked like white men.  Some of them were
members of my church.   Black customers were not allowed in the shops.  One
man used to cut my cousin's hair after hours.  She could have passed for
white so there was no problem if someone saw her at the shop.

   White people patronized the black dentists and doctors as well.  I remember
a time when I waited over an hour for my dentist to get to me because he was 
working on a family of whites who dropped in.  I had an appointment. 

   These events occurred during the 1950's and 1960's.

   There are still black owned businesses in this area.  Some of them would 
not exist without white clientele.
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: F**k y'all
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:05:43 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <92105.074857KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>  I think now I have your attention.  Why don't we just change the name of this
>network to soc.culture.african.american.discrimination, because unless someone
>is dissing us because of our color you people don't seem to care or respond!
>I posted something about Arthur Ashe and the fact that this network is
>silent about the AIDS issue. I have also posted a while back about drugs and
>guns and what it is doing to us and again, little to no response.  But let
>someone come on here and call us names, incompentent or say that we are
>"not cost effective" and one hundred posts come out of the closet.  OUR
>BIGGEST PROBLEM NOW IS OUR INABILITY TO LOOK PAST DISCRIMINATION AND LOOK
>INWARD.

Unfortunately, save for a few topics, those things which most will agree to
do not get much of a response; it isn't that noone has read what you've
posted, I know I have. Time seems to be a factor in deciding to respond
to a message I agree with; however, this explanation doesn't work since
I always make the time to argue other topics into the ground. 

As for doing something, a few things are conducted via e-mail and off of scaa. 
Unfortunately, the one pro-active effort I'm aware of is at a 
standstill due to busy schedules, apathy, whatever. I'm confident that
folx here do participate in various functions in order to do what they can;
and, possibly because of this, there just isn't too much talk of what we
do in our real lives. 

The AIDS issue is important - keep posting and I'm sure ideas will be interject-
ed as folx see something they can add.

Mc
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 09:19:15 -0400 
From: Dean Calloway <dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Maury Povich Show: She Wants To Be White
	<1992Apr16.175026.15646@sequent.com>

Excerpts From Captions of netnews.soc.culture.african.american:
16-Apr-92  Re: Maury Povich Show: She ..  Kevin Closson@sequent.co (898)    
>  Look,  the question was:  "What is white music"?
>  I followed up with the notion that Classical music is "White" music.
>  Someone came back with the fact that Beethoven had black lineage. 
> 
>  Unlike blues, jaz,rock-n-roll,dixieland, and bluegrass which have direct
>  pointers back to Africa geographically,  classical music DOES NOT!  Just
>  because one composer of classical music was a moor doesn't put classical
>  music in the same category as these others.  It's origin is, quite simply,
>  European.

Right.  But the comment was made that everything good (or something to
that effect) had to be labelled African in nature.  This is no more than
backlash against recognizing that ALL that is great is not a construct
of whites... being white is no basis for being able to do great works,
anymore than being black is... What is so threatening about recognizing
Beethoven's ancestry... unless one resents others based on the color of
their skin, it shouldn't matter...

DCAL
From: dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Maury Povich Show: She Wants To Be White
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:49:56 GMT
 <1992Apr12.222016.8874@ra.msstate.edu> <1992Apr13.005510.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu><1992Apr13.174840.5534@sequent.com>
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts From Captions of netnews.soc.culture.african.american:
13-Apr-92  Re: Maury Povich Show: She ..  News on Muncher@sequent. (248)    
> Nice try.  Which black musician did Beethoven and Bach copy?  This is
> white music.
> 

Wasn't Beethoven hinself half-black?

DCAL
From: jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ASHLEY SAMMERSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Dr. Jeffries released???
Date: 12 Apr 92 18:53:01 GMT
Reply-To: jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ASHLEY SAMMERSON)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

--

   I heard that Dr. Jeffries was released from City College. Is this
info true and wasn't he a tenured professor?


John S.

*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*       
* Computer Arch & Telecommunications *   jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu *
* Dept. of Elect & Comp Engineering  *  or js@duke.cs.duke.edu *
* North Carolina State University    *  Phone:  (919) 489-0941 *    
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Ashe and Aids and us
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:40:55 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


     Maybe the reason this network hasn't responded to the AIDS outing of Arthur Ashe is because I haven't been here until now, because I almost always have something to say about AIDS.  
     I agree that the media should have left Ashe alone, considering the stigmatization that people with AIDS still face.  USA today had no right to expose ASHE and his family to what people with AIDS have to face from the American public. Ashe has known since 1988 that he has AIDS and would have come forward if he'd wanted to.  We, the public, had no right to know.
     While I'm on the subject, I'd like to say something about AIDS-ignorance in our community (the African-American community).  I've been an AIDS educator on my campus for the last 4 years, and I want to take my skills as an educator to my community, where there is a definite need for it.  I find, however, I am shut out because of the information I want to give and the conduits through which I must go in order to dispense it.  I educate about both abstinence and safe sex, and that's where the problems st



art.
    Almost anyone knows that if you want to get a message into the black community as reach as many people as possible, you just about have to go into the churches.  Any southern politician will second that.  HOwever, ministers do not take kindly to my telling their youth how to practice safe sex, for those who may not choose abstinece.
    I know churches are concerned mainly with saving souls ,but the congregation has to be alive before their souls can be saved.  Wake up, people.
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Plug Pulled on Spike Lee's "Malcolm X" (2/2)
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:04:26 GMT
	<1992Apr8.151046.15165@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

reiher@onyx.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Reiher) writes:
|Another article in yesterday's LA Times had further clarification.
|Lee is contractually obligated (to the original studio, not just the
|completion bond company) to produce a 2 hr. and 15 minute movie.  The
|completion bond company wants to hold him to the contract.  The issue
|does indeed seem to be a battle over the length of the film, rather than
|whether the film will be completed or how much more money will be spent.

|Lee has taken a big risk with "Malcolm X".  All along, apparently he
|was determined that he would make a 3 hour film costing around $33 million.
|When the studio would only authorize $28 million, and demanded a 2 hr.,
|15 minute film, Lee signed, but seems to have never intended to honor
|those clauses.  In today's Hollywood, this is a very risky maneuver,
|indeed.  If he prevails, and if the film is a big hit, all will be forgiven.
|If he prevails, and the film is a flop, Lee will probably have trouble
|getting his next film made the way he wants it.  If he doesn't prevail,
|then Lee will lose a great deal of bargaining clout for future films,
|regardless of how the film does - if it's a flop, it's his fault; if it's
|a hit, the wisdom of the studio/completion bond company will have saved
|the film.  For that reason, (along with his sincere belief that "Malcolm
|X" requires 3 hrs. to be a good film) I expect Lee to go to the mat for the 
|long version.

			   Peter Reiher
			   reiher@onyx.jpl.nasa.gov
			   . . . cit-vax!elroy!jato!jade!reiher
--
Peace.
     "The US has a vital interest in that area of the country."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle Referring to Latin America.
                           ------
Don't just adopt opinions |  \/  | I am Charles Isbell, Homeboy from hell,
      develop them.       |  /\  | living axiom and anonymous absolute ruler
                           ------  of the cosmos.  

Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:4473 talk.politics.misc:17282