HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Environmental reasons, Part 1
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:29:37 GMT


[The following article is reprinted from the July issue of World Watch
 magazine.  It gives an overview of the environmental consequences of
 a meat-centered diet.  For a detailed, referenced, account of the
 global picture, see Worldwatch Institute Report #103 entitled
 "Taking Stock."  Long post: 350 lines]

(First typed in by Ferrell Wheeler, I got it from Michael Traub.)

Fat of the Land

by

Alan B. Durning
Senior Researcher
Worldwatch Institute
1776 Massachusetts Ave.
Washington, DC  20036

   When  most Americans  sit  down to dinner, they're only a bite away
from  unwittingly worsening the environment.   The overlooked offender
is  tonight's  steak,  pork  chop,  or  chicken  breast.   The  unpaid
ecological price of that meat is so  hefty that Americans could end up
eating themselves out of planetary house and home.
   Putting half a pound of red meat and poultry on the  table each day
for  every American citizen  rings up  quite a tab.  The industry that
supplies the  world's leading nation of meat-eaters is associated with
environmental ills  ranging from depleted and contaminated underground
water to  an  atmosphere pumped full of greenhouse gases.  Even modern
egg production participates in the ecological wrongdoing.
   There's  nothing  anti-ecological about  cows,  pigs,  and chickens
themselves.  Rather  American-style animal farms burden nature because
they  have outgrown their niche.  In the U.S., livestock stand  at the
center of  agriculture, absorbing much of  the  country's crop harvest
along with  vast  quantities of  energy  and water.   Elsewhere,  most
livestock are  raised as they've always been:  as a sideline to crops.
In some circumstances, they  turn plants people  cannot  eat into food
they can.
   Every  nation  in the world  that's wealthy enough, nonetheless, is
taking  notes  from  the United  States  and  is  starting  to  shower
resources on raising animals for meat; U.S.-style animal farms seem to
be the wave of the futrue.  If the American diet alone does not pose a
mortal  threat to  the natural estate, its  adoption around the  world
certainly would.   the  prospect of  5 billion  people eating  the way
Americans do is an ecological impossibility, requiring more grain than
the world can grow and more energy, water, and land than the world can
supply.
From: sivak-d@acsu.buffalo.edu (D Sivakumar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LIST OF SUBSTANCES DERIVED FROM ANIMALS
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:56:48 GMT
Organization: UB
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Peter Westlake (pwestlak@eoe.co.uk) wrote:
: Thank you for posting this list. While useful, it would be
: a lot more so if it distinguished between products that
: involve killing or harming animals and those that need not,
: like eggs.

	I have one more question.. do the listed products
	necessarily contain substances derived from
	animals, or is it that they *may* ?

: On a related note, the recent thread about milk made me
: wonder: as many (all?) Hindus are vegetarian, and furthermore
: revere the cow as sacred, where does all the yogurt used in
: Indian meals comes from? Is there in fact a way to milk
: cows without killing calfs?

	* No, not all Hindus are vegetarian.

	* Milk is an acceptable vegetarian food
	  to all Hindus, as far as I know.

	* Hey, why do you have to kill calfs to
	  milk cows??  Or are you referring to
	  depriving the calfs of their rightful milk?!

	-Siva

-- 
D Sivakumar                                    Dept. of Computer Science,
                                               226 Bell Hall,
					       SUNY at Buffalo,
					       Buffalo, NY 14260
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: The Multiple Bulsaris
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:01:43 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

Have you noticed that A. Bulsari uses his multiple accounts when
posting to r.f.v... I think he must be being PAYED to change names
so often in order to avoid KILL files!!!

abulsari@aton    17  >veget. beyond food (medicine)

	= 6:02 GMT

A. Bulsari       37  >Conclusions about Ted Altar

	= 6:11 GMT  -  just 9 minutes later!!!!


	CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!
	CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!
	CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!
	CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!

Massive colon, minus close.  (Does that mean non anal retentive?)
          :      -     )

--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /   C references are NULL && void*
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /
From: rodneys@Apple.COM (Rodney Somerstein)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Veg restaurants in Dallas
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:34:33 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

I will be in Dallas next week and am in need of some recommendations for 
vegetarian/vegetarian friendly restaurants.  Restaurants with a good selection
of vegan dishes would be especially appreciated.

Please post here or via e-mail.  I will summarize any mail to the net.

Thanks,

-Rodney

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Somerstein
rodneys@apple.com
CIS: 73167,2165
AppleLink: SOMERSTEIN1
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Somerstein
rodneys@apple.com
CIS: 73167,2165
AppleLink: SOMERSTEIN1
From: omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie *crow* Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: miso recipe?
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:56:11 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

Oops, I guess I am a little unfamiliar in the terminology.  This summer I
ate lunch often at a 'Japanese' restaurant called the Happy Bowl (it was 
really fast food, but healthy with a lot of veg. options) Anyway, they
served a soup that they called miso.  It had a slightly salty broth with
pieces of tofu at the bottom.  What is the relation to miso (soup) and miso
(gravy/ chicken stock replacer)?

----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
``What do you think sirs?''  -Joel (mst3k)    | .sig lite- all .sig no guilt
----------------------------------------------+------------------------------- 
   __             _ _ _                       | Ocie Mitchell
  / ')           ' ) ) )  _/_    /      /) /) | omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu
 /  / _. o _      / / / o /  _. /_  _  // //  | Q:is that your real name? 
(__/ (__(_(<_    / ' (_(_(__(__/ /_(<_(/_(/_  | A:yes, it is my real name.
----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nahaym@soleil.tmc.edu (Michael Nahay)
Subject: Recipe: Ice Cream like Dessert
Organization: Motorola SPS ASIC
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:18:37 GMT

Here's an awesome dessert I like to make:

Pretty easy, take:

1 Banana, frozen overnight (I freeze peel and all)
1 Granny Smith Apple 
1/2 Cup of Almonds      
Cinnamon

Slice apple into small wedges, blend in food processor.             
Remove blended apple from processor into a bowl.
Chop almonds in processor, remove and add to apples.
Slice banana, and blend in processor till it looks like
ice cream.  Mix in apples and nuts, add cinnamon. Blend
till well mixed.  Serves 1.

Enjoy.

--
Michael Nahay	Motorola SPS ASIC   		nahaym@chdasic.sps.mot.com
   /'''		1300 N. Alma School Rd
   c-OO 	M/S CH275			office:  (602) 821-4261
   |\_    	Chandler, Arizona 85224	 	home:    (602) 491-6401
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: So-Called Vitamin D (olddate) [rebuttal from August]
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:01:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.170108.10945
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <11081@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> warwick@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>Rich, please READ articles before you repost them under your name.
>Steve Dyer's analysis of Ted's production of Moon's article is very
>poor, and simply makes him (Steve) look stuborn, as all he does is say
>"No, that's not right", "Sure Teddy", and the like.

Do you have a habit of skipping 99% of an article?  You should focus
on the important stuff.

The stuff of my disagreement with Ted's tract is elementary science.
The misunderstandings are basic and fundamental.  Ted is ignorant of
chemistry, biochemistry and metabolism, yet he imagines himself able
to read scientific papers and come up with a meaningful synthesis of
them.  What he comes up with is a hodgepodge of half-truths and mis-
understandings, howlers, actually, which he serves up enthusiastically
to people on rec.food.veg, many of whom aren't familiar enough with
the science to recognize hogwash when they're served it.

>I'd much prefer your usually well documented analyses.

The documentation is available to anyone who can read.  This is all
basic science.  People who can't tell the difference between Vitamin D
and an anabolic steroid, and who use the word "steroid" as a bogeyman
have no business trying to lecture an audience on vitamin D and
calcium metabolism.

>(That's why Steve is mounted in my kill file,
>while you roam around in the wild)

Well, he did you a favor by having you look at it again.
Maybe it will sink in.  Of course, I made the same objections
to Ted's assertions last March, and it made no difference to him.
"Don't confuse me with facts, I've made up my mind."

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Brother Ron Pickarski
Keywords: my hero :-)
Date: 23 Nov 92 06:57:14 GMT
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace

Just got back from the fifth annual Turkey Free Thanksgiving Dinner put on by
the Chicago Veg Soc, and it was quite good.  The featured chef/speaker was
Brother Ron Pickarski, whose excellent book Friendly Foods you've probably
seen at your local natural foods or bookstore.  The globe trotting gourmet,
just off the plane from presenting in Oz, last month picked up a gold and a
silver in the International Culinary Olympics.

First off, here's the menu, all adapted from his book:

Reception:

Crudites (quite good vegs considering what the weather's been like of late out
	   here)
Selection of blue corn chips & cocktail breads 
Guacamole (quite light--I wonder whether it was cut somehow to reduce the fat
	    content)
Hummus
Split pea pate
Carrot pate (that was awesome)

Dinner:

Butternut squash chowder (great)

Fresh seasonal greens (raddichio, field lettuce, that Japanese rocket-like 
w/shaved carrots	stuff, Boston lettuce & watercress--think that's all)
in poppy seed dressing

American Bounty  (veg-barley loaf rolled into a layer of polenta)
w/tamari veloute sauce (terific)
Seitan a'la Normandie (baked seitan w/onions apples & pecans)
Millet mashed potatoes
Fresh Sunburst Zuchini (wonderful--creamy and lite)

Dessert:

choice of:

Swiss Burnt-Pecan Torte (awesome--I've made this myself, but this was better)
Pumpkin pie

Coffee, tea or cafix (grain coffee which I gather wasn't bad)

I've had better meals, though not many, but keep in mind that there were *600*
people @this shindig.  

Dinner was prefaced by the inevitable dopey remarks
from our sponsor and a somewhat new agey injuction to introduce yourself to
the other people @your table.  Couldn't be avoided, but it did remind me why
I don't go to veg events regularly.  

A couple people @my table weren't vegs, and asked me and the guy next to me
how you can be a vegan, but they were receptive and interested and--so help me-
took notes.  Weird, but a good sign.  After dinner Brother Ron spoke on food
and what natural food means in terms of social problems like health care, and
about people taking over their own lives through their diets.  He said this
stuff will play a bigger part in his next book.  He says that since food is
our most direct form of contact w/the world, it should be a way to open eyes
to just what's going on around us.

After that the crowd left and a few people hung around to talk to him.  
You always worry that when you meet your heros you'll stand there not 
knowing what to say and look like an idiot.  Well, I lived up to that,
but he was completely nice about it and gave me some helpful advice 
about getting into the biz.  The guy must be the thinnest chef in the 
world, but he looked pretty sharp in his olympic jacket, w/its red, white
and blue collar, team insignia and IACP logo.  Played quite well against
his smile.  Buy his book.
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Restaurants in Seattle, WA.
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:21:22 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

More additions (none of the following restaurants  are strictly vegetarian,
but they are all vegetarian-friendly):

The Kabul Restaurant, an Afgan restaurant on N 45th Street in Wallingford,
has a vegetarian section on the menu.  (I haven't eaten there yet, but it
looks intriguing).

There's a Thai restaurant in the basement of a church that was converted
to shops on the corner of Brooklyn NE and NE 42nd (or 41st) in the University
district, that has very extensive vegetarian selections, and is very good.

(Don't remember if this was in the original list or not):  The New Orleans
Restaurant, 114 1st Ave S in Pioneer Square, has a good selection of
Cajun and Creole vegetarian entrees.

Cafe Haney, 5327 Ballard Ave, has some wonderful vegetarian (ovo-lacto)
selections:  their vegetable pot-pie is amazing, and their Saturday and
Sunday breakfast menu has a few selections (such as the eggs florentine)
that shouldn't be missed.

------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nope, I don't think better laws would help much
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:17:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Nov16.211735.24635
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <1992Nov16.134832.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> 11jsutton@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>
>Ted says:
>
>>Do you think
>>there is no possibility of a regulated production of
>>say, eggs or wool, via strong laws protecting the
>>animals from human cruelty and suffering?  Hmm, maybe
>>not.  Now, you've got me thinking about this question.  ;-)
>
>Strong laws *might* help to *some* extent, but I doubt they'd ever
>do much.  The average consumer isn't willing to pay any more for
>animal products than they are already, so such laws would have
>difficulty getting passed, and even once they *were* passed,
>enforcing them would be a nightmare.  [...]

	Indeed, such laws already exist to cover pets and yet we still have
	"puppy mills" and "kitten mills."  Beyond that, we have, quite
	literally, millions of domestic cats and dogs living out miserable
	lives in abandonment...we catch and kill millions each year to keep
	from being overrun.

	How is it that we are so willing to rush to the aid of a farm
	chicken when we are so cavalier about those we call "companion
	animals?"  How is it that we are regularly encouraged to give up
	that which the chicken provides so that its alleged abuse may cease,
	but the plight of the dogs in "puppy mills" has not resulted in a
	similarly energetic cry to cease the keeping of pets in order to
	eliminate THEIR abuse?


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: jm67@hydra.gatech.edu (MURRAY,JEFFREY P)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Novice Vegetarian stuff...
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:52:58 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
In-reply-to: twain@milton.u.washington.edu's message of 19 Nov 92 17:41:04 GMT


> One more thing. :) I have been searching high and low for a GOOD Caesar 
>salad dressing...one that doesn't use those gross salad dressings. I tend to

   Here's a Caesar salad dressing without the raw egg, which I prefer
for obvious reasons (can you say "Salmonella"? Knew ya could). I am
recreating this from memory, but I think I've got it right. This is 
an INTENSE dressing, and is more than enough for a LARGE head of 
lettuce. I prefer to serve it on Romaine, with oil-less croutons made
from whole wheat bread slices toasted really crisp, diced, and sprinkled
over the lettuce AFTER the dressing has been added. Be forewarned, however,
that although this does not appear to produce a lot of dressing, it
goes a LONG way, as the flavours are quite intense!

Jeef's World Famous Caesar Salad
--------------------------------
1/2 cup Extra Virgin Olive Oil
juice of two limes (lemons can be substituted)
1 garlic clove
1 teaspoon of Tabasco
1 teaspoon of salt
several grindings of fresh black pepper.
1 cup (yes, a full cup) of grated parmesan cheese
1 large head of Romaine lettuce, washed, drained and torn
   into small pieces.
two or three slices of heavy, dark whole wheat or multigrain
   bread, sliced, toasted crisp, then diced.

   Put all of the ingredients except the lettuce and the 
bread into a blender in roughly the order shown, and blend until 
smoothe. This will produce a fairly thick dressing. Pour this
over the lettuce in a large mixing bowl and work the dressing
into the lettuce with your hands...this is the best way to 
make sure that each leaf is vell coated with the stuff.

   For serving, put a SMALL amount of the salad onto a salad plate,
put an extra grinding of black pepper on, and sprinkle on some of the
"croutons". Pour yourslef a glass of crisp Piesporter and revel
shamelessly in the good things Mother Earth hath provided.
--
MURRAY,JEFFREY P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!jm67
Internet: jm67@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: timi@mendel.berkeley.edu ( Tim Ikeda)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegans Statistic
Date: 20 Nov 1992 00:35:28 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: mendel.berkeley.edu

Teaser: Recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato with Bulgur" included at end.

From: rhart@haas.berkeley.edu (Richard Hart)
>Does anyone know offhand how many vegans (folks who eat no
>animal products) there are in the US? A percentage would be
>fine. This is for a business plan for a health food company.

I saw an article about this in the Contra Costa Times (CA newspaper)
(Wed. Nov 4, 1992 <post-election day>- Food section pg. 3E)
Digging deep into the compost pile which serves as my desk...

The text is:
"More in U.S. are vegetarians"
by Corydon Ireland
Gannett News Service

Some 12 million adults in the U.S. - 6.7% of the population -
now call themselves vegetarians, according to a new study from
Vegetarian Times magazine.

A 1985 Gallup poll put that figure at 3.7%.

Some other facts the survey uncovered:
o Two out of five vegetarians today changed their diet within the last
five years.

o 2/3rds of the vegetarians are women.

o Vegetarians are more likely than the average citizen to have graduated
from college, to have a white collar job and to be over 40.

o Nearly all of them (89%) made the decision to become a vegetarian on
their own; only 11% did so on the advice of a doctor.

o Most switched for health reasons.

o At least once a week, many of the vegetarians tapped for the survey
eat eggs (38%) and dairy products (79%).  Only 4% of the respondents
eat no animal products.

o Interestingly, many of these self-described vegetarians (40%) eat
fish and poultry at least once a week. A few (10%) even eat red meat
once a week.

(remainder deleted -- It was a recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato
with Bulgur")
****** transcript ends********

A rough calculation puts the "no meat products" vegetarians at about
0.27% (0.04x6.7%) of the US pop (or about 480,000 people). The data is too
ambiguous to guess what the "ovo-lacto" vegetarian percentage is
(somewhere <4% (0.6x6.7%)).

I haven't seen the Vegetarian Times source article.

Regards,
Tim Ikeda

PS. OK, here's the recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato with Bulgur"

Serves 4

4 medium size tomatoes
3 ounces bulgur
2 shallots
1 garlic clove
2 jalapeno peppers
1/2 bunch fresh basil
2 scallions
4 sun dried tomatoes
1 ounce white bread crumbs
1 cup chopped herbs (majoram, thyme, parsley, rosemary)

o Cook bulgur in vegetable stock. Chop all ingredients (except herbs)
finely, then saute.

o Preheat oven to 400 deg F [205 deg C for those in the civilized world].
Coat a baking pan with nonstick spray.  Peel tomato and hollow out 
from the bottom.  Fill tomato with stuffing. Coat tomato with 
breadcrumbs and herbs. Bake 15 to 20 minutes.

Nutritional data:
146 calories            6 g protein
                       31 g carbo
                        1 g fat  (7% of total calories)
                      374 mg sodium
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: So-Called Vitamin D (olddate) [rebuttal from August]
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:05:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.233410.12142@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
# In article <altar.722490914@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
# >I'm sorry that other countries may well spell things differently
# >than yourself, but the fact remains that the Canadian and British
# >spelling is ATHEROSCLEROSIS.
# 
# 	Oh, good GRIEF!!!!  In the interest of accuracy let me expound on
# 	ARTERIOSCLEROSIS vs. ATHEROSCLEROSIS.


Come on folks, we're all lay people.  Don't take this stuff so seriously.
The rest of us sure don't.

Tom
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Learn to make a kill file
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:54:45 GMT
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.

In article <1992Nov17.081616.13238@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
|> Learn to make a kill file. If you are using rn on Unix,
|> pressing CAPS k will kill a subject. No more followups on
|> that subject will be shown after that.
|> 
|> If you want to avoid reading a person's postings, e.g. mine,
|> edit the kill file by typing Ctrl-k and then entering a line
|> /Abhay/h:j or /abulsari@aton.abo.fi/h:j
|> 
|> Kill files make life easier for everyone.
|> 

This is simply not true. Kill files are an artifact which have had to be 
created to deal with people such as yourself. Shouting rhetoric on street 
corners with the excuse "You can put your hands over your ears if you want",
is a good analogy. I don't want to have to use my kill file. It is a
necessary evil, not a good thing.

In real life, people follow social conventions. However, there are always
some people who will carry on talking even if nobody is listening, no matter
how many times people tell them to push off. 

Despite your belief in kill files, there is (was) such a thing as net
etiquette. Posting any old rubbish with the words "use the kill file" is 
a cop-out. 

If you and Ted moderated your postings, perhaps offering to email people
with interesting articles, or at least finding out if anyone wants to read them
first, then you might not be flamed so much.

Finally, there is such a thing a MONEY. It costs a lot of money to post
an article to the world. Doing such a thing which
1) Most people don't want to read
and
2) Generates enormous amounts of pointless followups/flames etc.

Is a waste of resources, bandwidth and time (of people reading/killing etc).

|> With regards,
|> 
|> Abhay

with love and peace to vegetarians everywhere,

Neil.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg