HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Cooking/Heating Protein--Last Beating of A Dead Horse??
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:22:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.133647.24@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:

>St. Catherine's, Ontario: Modern Publications, 1967.  I had no luck with this

>Brit. J. Nutrit. 17: #4, 445-452, 1963.

>Clarke, J.A.K. & Kennedy, B.M. Availability in wholewheat bread & in selected
>breakfast cereals.  J. Food Sc. 27: #6, 609-616, November-December 1962.
>
>Gates, J.C. & Kennedy, B.M. Protein quality of bread & bread ingredients.  
>J. Am. Dietet. Assn. 44: #5, 374-377, May 1964.
>
>Present status of heat-processing damage to protein foods.  Nutrit. Rev. 8:
>#7, 193-196, July 1950.

>Longenecker, J.B. & Sarett, H.P.  Nutritional quality of survival biscuits &
>crackers.  Am. J. Clin. Nutrit. 11: #5, 291-296, November 1963.
>
>Annand, J.C.  The case against heated animal protein.  J. Atheroscler. Res. 3:
>#2, 153-156, March-April 1963.

Do you have more recent evidence? All of this stuff is *quite* old.

Also, there are many good sources of protein, one doesn't need
supplementation. The body will only use what it needs the remaining
amino acids are digested. Unless you have a very strange diet, 
I bet most if not all of the protein supplementation you take is
digested. If you want proof you can measur the nitrogen content
in your urine. If you are not excreting any compounds containing 
nitrogen, then your body is in fact using all of the protein you
consume. What makes you think you need protein supplementation?

And, the idea the fact the you have been supplementating your diet
and you are in good health is only correlational. They may not
be related at all. If you have been taking sugar pills all this time
would you think the reason you are helathy is because of the pills?
Compared to some vitamins and minerals, stocking up on protein
is useless, because the body will not store them up, any extras
are digested.

john

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Have you heard of this?????
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:35:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct6.023523.10087
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <6OCT92.01103152@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>I have heard that the FDA presently has a study going on to evaluate the claims
>that chelation therapy can treat heart disease.  Has anyone else heard this?

The FDA doesn't do studies.  Maybe someone in the National Institutes of
Health?  I'd tend to doubt it, though.  There have been studies of such
therapies before, none of which were able to demonstrate any beneficial
effect, at least when viewed critically.  Some of the studies were very
poorly designed with poor selection and improvement criteria.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: Have you heard of this?????
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:08:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.121701.392@lrc.edu> dorham_r@lrc.edu writes:
>Hello Friends,
>
>I would like to know if anyone has heard of chelation therapy.  If
>anyone has, could you tell me something about it?  Thanks!!!!

I read quite a bit about this about 10-12 years ago as an alternative to
bypass surgery.  You'd go for several treatments & they'd drip a chelating
agent (EDTA) into your vein for a few hours.  It was supposed to break
up the plaques on the arterial walls.  There was a medical organization,
The International Academy Of Medical Preventics, whose members were M.D.s
practicing (among other things) chelation therapy.  The books & literature
I had read made it sound promising & I believe that all the doctors were
also nutrition-minded, so that was a plus.  In any case, I had an interest
only because someone close to my family was undergoing bypass surgery (which
they did some 8 yrs. ago & are still looking for improvement).  Anyway, I
can't speak for its efficacy, but I did recently read that there was a long
debate over it in the sci.med newsgroup & the bottom line was anti the
chelation therapy.  I might have some literature at home if there's still
an interest on your part.

Jamie jil@donuts0.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,talk.politics.animals
From: bonnie@nmsu.edu (Bonnie Hargrave)
Subject: Re: AMA Blasts Animal Rights Group on Milk Panic
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:56:37 GMT


Oh, come on.  !!! TERRORISTS? !!!  Civil disobedience, sure, even
anarchists _maybe_, but TERRORISTS?  Sheese.  What a load of bull.

Such a statement seems like one more black mark on the AMA to me.
--

		bonnie@nmsu.edu         
		Bonnie Hargrave
From: cdillon@ecst.csuchico.edu (Charles Dillon)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Glycemic Index Book
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:56:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: charnel.1asuh0INNi2l
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Oct3.010534.25379@spdc.ti.com> culpeppe@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Allen Culpepper) writes:
>
>  Can anyone recommend a good book that lists the glycemic indexes of most
>foods? Anyone? Anyone?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Allen

Do you mean Jenkins' study on how fast the carbohydrates in certian foods 
hit the blood stream?  This study only covered 60 different foods, and
is in dispute in some circles.   But I may be wrong. (make that 'frequently')

CD

-- 
If you understand, things are just as they are.        |               Charles
If you do not understand, things are just as they are. |               Dillon
	Zen Buddhist saying                            |        Some disclimer
						       |        should go here.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 17:21:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <2OCT92.15151518@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>In a previous article, blair@salem.intel.com (Guy Blair) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>I heard a TV News report last night that after you are 1 year old,
>>milk is quite unhealthy.  One report said, what do you expect, it is designed for calves?  What's the story here?
>> 
>Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
>Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.
>
Sure. Cheetos, chips, "Kentucky Fried" chicken, Coke, beer...

And let's not forget Nature's Most Perfect Food, the Hostess Twinkee.

:-)

Brian
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Information needed on Candida albicans
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:57:04 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <25SEP92.18020965@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>That reminds me of another question.  I just received a hospital news letter
>where they mention a study which showed that women with yeast infections were
>cured by eating yogurt (not using it as a douche.)  That really confuses me.
>What process is at work here?

The bacteria in yoghurt can colonize the gut, especially if it's taken
chronically, and probably cross-infect the vagina to an extent.  Overgrowth
of candida in otherwise healthy individuals is sometimes due to the lack of
competition for nutrients.  Also, this colonization by lactobacilli may change
the microecology of the vagina, perhaps by changing the pH due to lactic acid
production, thereby retarding candidal growth.

Just a guess.
-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian diets
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 02:50:43 GMT

[toxicity problems of plant vs. animal food]

I'd agree with what Robbie wrote.  Meat generally requires pretty careful
handling, whereas plants are more forgiving.  Consider the difference between
consuming veggies and meat that have both been sitting out during a long hot
day. 

Also, since animals are farther up the food chain, you're more likely to be
getting a more concentrated dose of whatever toxins are involved.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I recognize that the cases of (minor) food poisoning
I get can generally be traced back to some animal flesh I've eaten.

Mike
-- 
--Mike Coleman (coleman@cs.ucla.edu), Lord High Executioner of Anhedonia-----
    All we read is // Usenet caca // Usenet googoo // Usenet gaga...
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End)
Subject: Re: Support Grows For Vitamins As Roadblocks To Heart Disease
Organization: Rumor Control inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:40:28 GMT

Well boys, this one appears to be gaining quite a bit of support. All the 
original post did was point out the very real lag in transfer of information
from the science community to the public at large, and the even more
substantial delay in reaching something like a "text book".

I agree with basically everything in the orignal post AND you didn't have
to reread it an the entire follow-up.

Jim
J. Graham
Biology and Chemistry Depts.
indiana University -Bloomingtonuniversity
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: Milk Press Conference
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:13:11 GMT

I'll play devil's advocate here, even though I am not and advocate of drinking
milk:

> 
>DIABETES:  Of 142 diabetic children tested in a recent study, 100% had high
>levels of an antibody to a cow's milk protein.  It is believed that these
>antibodies destroy the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas.
>

What does it mean "it is believed"?  Any proof?
Did they look for antibodies of other foods in children? 

>
>CALCIUM:  Green leafy vegetables such as kale are as good or better than
>milk as calcium sources.
> 

Isn't it true that minerals are harder to assimilate from vegetable sources

>CONTAMINANTS:  Milk is frequently contaminated with antibiotics and excess
>Vitamin D.  Of 42 milk samples recently tested, only 12% were within the
>expected range of Vitamin D content.  Of 10 samples of infant formula, 7 had
>more than twice the Vitamin D content reported on the label, and 1 had more
>than four times the label amount.
> 
>LACTOSE:  Many people of Asian and African heritage are unable to digest the
>milk sugar, lactose, which then causes diarrhea and gas. The lactose sugar
>when it is digested, releases galactose, a simple sugar which is linked to
>ovarian cancer and cataracts.
> 
>ALLERGIES:  Milk is one of the most common causes of food allergy. Often the
>symptoms are subtle and may not be attributed to milk for some time.
> 
>COLIC:  Milk proteins can cause colic, a digestive upset that bothers one in
>five infants.  Milk-drinking mothers can also pass cow's milk proteins to
>their breast-feeding infants.
> 
>The Special Supplemental Food Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
>provides food for women and for children up to five years of age. The
>program costs approximately $2 billion per year, and reaches nearly one in
>three babies born in the U.S.  It is administered by the Food and Nutrition
>Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, one of whose missions is "to
>stabilize farm prices through the distribution of surplus foods." The
>program provides milk, cheese, fruit, juice, peanut butter, beans and peas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Mark
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:44:34 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct2.164613.28450@pixel.kodak.com> ph@ssd.kodak.com (Pete Hoch 253-1985) writes:
>In article <2OCT92.15151518@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>>In a previous article, blair@salem.intel.com (Guy Blair) wrote:

>>Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?

>Here is a partial list.

>Any and all fruits and vegetables.

It's a good idea to avoid eating poisonous fruits and vegetables.

-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Cooking food alters protein
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:25:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep29.042526.1844
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <BvAM81.43u@csc.liv.ac.uk> beynonrj@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Dr. R.J. Beynon) writes:
>What are needed are books that are scientifically correct, calm
>and which indicate where there is controversy. This is a tall order,
>for any writer, but I would expect the author to have been trained,
>formally, in scientific method, even if they are advocating some
>age-old diet.
>
>I haven't read this FfL book, and don't intend to. But, the scientific time
>invested in confirming or denying the findings could, IMHO, be better
>invested in a book such as I describe above.

There are such books (Jean Mayer, Johanna Dwyer and Jane Brody's books in
the US come close.)  Do you think the fans of "Fit for Life" would be
interested?  Hardly.  Because such books naturally only make recommendations
and couch comments in terms of what is known.  There is little "you must do
this" and "you must not do that".  People want to be told what to do,
and that's more important than truth to many of 'em.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Reply-To: jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:10:04 GMT

Don't know much about homeopathy (sounds like "Wonderful World" by Sam Cooke
&/or Herman's Hermits), but liked this letter to the editor in last Sunday's
N.Y. Times magazine section (10/4):

Critics have argued that homeopathy cannot be taken seriously because there is
no known "mechanism" by which its remedies can work: i.e., it doesn't work
because it cant ("Take a Little Deadly Nightshade and You'll Feel Better," by
James Gorman, Aug. 30).  This is a rather unscientific argument for those who
claim to be schooled in the ways of science, especially since the exact
mechanisms of action of a large variety of conventional drugs are unknown,
including those of aspirin and steroids.

Richard J. Weintraub, M.D.
Director of Psychiatry,
Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital
Boston

As an aside, I remember a nutritionist (possibly Carlton Fredricks, Ph. D.)
who wondered if people thought that their headaches &/or arthritis were due
to a lack of aspirin in their system :-)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:37:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.161004.18285@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:

   Critics have argued that homeopathy cannot be taken seriously because there is
   no known "mechanism" by which its remedies can work: i.e., it doesn't work
   because it cant ("Take a Little Deadly Nightshade and You'll Feel Better," by
   James Gorman, Aug. 30).  This is a rather unscientific argument for those who
   claim to be schooled in the ways of science, especially since the exact
   mechanisms of action of a large variety of conventional drugs are unknown,
   including those of aspirin and steroids.

The problem with understanding asprin is that there are lots of ways
it could work, and we don't yet know which one.  The problem with
homeopathy is that nobody has any idea how it could possibly work.
Seems pretty different to me.

Homeopathy holds that two similar vials, each containing the same
amount of pure water, can have different effects on your body when you
drink them if one of them was prepared by diluting some poison until
none of the poison was left.  Since you think you live in a world
where this happens, you must have pondered how.  What's your best
guess?

   As an aside, I remember a nutritionist (possibly Carlton Fredricks, Ph. D.)
   who wondered if people thought that their headaches &/or arthritis were due
   to a lack of aspirin in their system :-)

I fail to see how this is connected to anything else in your post,
except that you repeated the word "asprin".  What's your point?
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: To Jamie Lubin
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 12:41:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.172731.25779@emr1.emr.ca> woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold) writes:
>JAMIE LUBIN:  I've been unable to send you email;  I tried the
>Internet addresses jil@uts.uucp and jil@donuts0.uucp.  So I'm
>posting this message to you in this newsgroup, instead.
 
Sorry re the lack of signature--will list e-mail address below.

>I'm glad you're on the Net.  Thanks for expressing agreement with me.
>Clearly we think similarly on some points.  It's refreshing to read
>the opinions of someone who shares similar values and ideas.
 
Thank you, I appreciate it!!

>I'm in the Infant Feeding Action Coalition.  We're struggling to
>protect breastfeeding with the limited resources of a volunteer
>group of mothers of little babies (i.e. very little spare time,
>energy or money) while the powerful hospitals continue to 
>separate mothers and babies and frequently recommend formula for 
>a wide variety of little problems (e.g. mother is tired, or baby 
>is crying) while stating that their policy is to support 
>breastfeeding.

Good luck with your cause.

Jamie  jil@donuts0.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Whey Milk
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:48:07 GMT


Anybody know anything about whey-milk. I see it sold in powdered form
at country fairs and the like -no fat, no this no that -  all the good things
and cheap -buy 60 berzillion boxes now. Funny thing is that it tastes
better than non-fat, and has less calories (65 vs 90 per c) even in its 
flavored forms.

They claim this is just whey powder and stuff. What perzactly is
whey powder, and "whey" is it any better for you than any other
kind of white milky weird stuff.


Richard
Inquiring stomachs want to know!
-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: john@citr.uq.oz.au (John Gottschalk)
Subject: Re: Gluten content of "unusual" grains
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:48:44 GMT

cjross@testament.bbn.com (Chris Ross) writes:

>With respect to gluten-free diets, most of my nutrition textbooks
>point to wheat, rye, oats, and barley as the "bad guys" and to rice
>and corn as the "good guys."  None have anything to say about other

Is rice low in gluten? What about the rice marketed as "glutenous rice". 
I assume that that glutenous rice, which I have been cooking with this
week, is high in gluten.

			-- regards, John Gottschalk

===================================================================== 
     John Gottschalk (john@citr.uq.oz.au) 
     Centre for Information Technology Research,
     The University of Queensland, 4072, 
     Brisbane, Queensland, Australia,
     +61 7 365 4321 (phone), +61 7 365 4399 (fax)
===================================================================== 
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:07:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Milk v/s Soymilk
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

In sci.med.nutrition, sudesh@utkal.njit.edu (T. J. Sudesh) writes:

>"D-West soymilk" ... Could someone kindly elucidate on its availibility ?

Health food stores.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: Milk is dangerous?
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:15:15 GMT

In a previous article, blair@salem.intel.com (Guy Blair) wrote:
> 
> 
>I heard a TV News report last night that after you are 1 year old,
>milk is quite unhealthy.  One report said, what do you expect, it is designed for calves?  What's the story here?
> 
>Dr. Guy

Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.

Mark
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: Cooking/Heating Protein--Last Beating of A Dead Horse??
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 14:13:48 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep28.173912.4138@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>In article <lq_p=wc@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu writes:
>>>
>>>(p. 22) Although not usually recognized, considerable 
>>>protein destruction takes
>>>place as foods are heated.
>>
>The 3 references listed (British Journal Of Nutrition, Journal Of Food
>Science & Journal Of The American Dietetic Association) were related in
>that they were the source of the above statement.  I don't know if this is
>a matter of semantics ("protein destruction"), but are these scientific
>journals considered "reputable?"

Without direct citations concerning what each article said, it is
hard to address this question. However, in the 50s and early 60s
some of the very earliest papers concerning protein structure
and denaturation were being published. For example, Anfinsen had just
showed that a protein "destroyed" by denaturing agents could
spontaneously renature, indicating that it was not actually
"destroyed" in the first place. A concept like "protein destruction"
would seem reasonable in the early 60s, before it was recognized that
there is a difference between protein denaturation and protein
destruction.

[references to speculation about amino acid destruction by
cooking and food processing deleted]

>>If you live in a first-world country, even if the above is true,
>>you will hardly develop malnutrition as a result of dietary deficiency
>>of the above amino acids. It just doesn't seem to happen, presumably
>>because most people in affluent countries eat several times more
>>protein than they really need.
> 
>I didn't think they were referring to kwashiorkor.

What clinical condition are they then referring to?

>>>Present status of heat-processing damage to protein foods.  Nutrit. Rev. 8:
>>>#7, 193-196, July 1950.
>>
>>It seems to me that problems postulated in 1950 would probably
>>be resolved by now, especially given that relatively simple
>>chemical tests could prove or disprove the alleged problem.
> 
>I realize that all but this journal article were from the 60s, but has any of
>this been refuted??

You refute data, not speculation.

>Brian, as an aside, do you know Dave Cochran at UNM??

No. There is no-one in the directory by that name.

Brian

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition