HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:12:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: INDYCMS.168569D95.IQTI400
Organization: IUPUI

In article <1992Sep2.143543.13704@Princeton.EDU>
egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
 
>>Most non-smokers subscribe to the theory that a person's right to swing
>>their arms about in the air ends at someone else's nose. Smoke is no
>>less of an assult than a fist up someone's snout.
 
>Well, I gave up smoking because I could no longer see that it was moral
>for me to force others to breathe my smoke; I guess this altruism is
>condemned by libertarianism, but I'm not a libertarian.  But if
>sidestream smoke is an assault, then so is toxic waste in my drinking
>water or forced, unpaid overtime.  That is, I suggest that we Americans
>focus overmuch on personal behavior, and not enough on corporate
>misbehavior.
 
 
Speaking of which, here's some humour on the subject a friend of mine
used to keep posted in his office:
 
                               TO THE VISITOR
 
               Cigarette smoke is the residue of your
           pleasure.  It permeates the air and putrifies
               my hair and clothes, not the mention
           my lungs.  This takes place without my consent.
              I have a pleasure also; I like a beer now
              and again.  The residue from my pleasure
             is urine.  Would you be annoyed if I stood
               on a chair and p*ssed on your head and
                   clothes without your consent?
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6131 talk.politics.misc:42500 soc.culture.usa:6949
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:53:42 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug23.233122.24867@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>In article <BtFFvE.A1x@jrd.dec.com> doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug21.162919.10306@Princeton.EDU>, egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:

>># The Wall Street Journal has documented how
>># the Japanese confuse attendance at work with work and count as work time
>># time spent reading the newspaper and playing games on the computer.

>>If the employees are at the office, most of the time it is counted
>>as "work", no matter what they are doing.

>Hitoshi, my point is that this is wrong, for it is a "positivist"
>definition of work.  Let me explain.  Legal "positivism" defines law as
>nothing more and nothing less than the formalistic operation of legal
>rules, with the absurd result that the operation of courts, even in a
>Stalinist or Nazi society, is "law"; I would prefer a definition that
>witheld the term "law" from such societies but legal positivism forces
>me to say they have "law."

Hitoshi, unless you are really good with English you are probably very
confused by the paragraph above.  Well, don't worry - I was born here
in the US and I'm confused too.  The difference is that I'm confident
enough of my English skills to know that I don't understand it because
it is drivel, not because I'm not smart enough to understand it.

Nilges is a pinhead.  Don't let him hassle you.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6242 talk.politics.misc:43308 soc.culture.usa:7053
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Great Good CEOs...NOT ( was: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: INDYCMS.168569A47.IQTI400
Organization: IUPUI

In article <1992Sep2.023525.9320@Princeton.EDU>
egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
 
>You assume that CEOs' performance is so coupled with their reward that
>they will be 100% motivated to do a good job.  The two major problems
>with this are the excessively short-term focus of American CEOs, and the
>fact that they negotiate risk out of their employment contracts, such
>that they never suffer when their performance is poor.  Their conduct
>will not necessarily be in the long-term best interests of the company,
>and Miller's conduct at Wang demonstrates this.
 
For those not aware, the typical CEO has his performance rated by the
Board of Directors.  And who sits on the BoD?  CEOs from other companies.
They basically take turns raising the salaries of each other.  If the CEO
is really worth the amount to the company because of what they bring and
what they do, great -- pay him twice as much more.  But when it's
"business as usual"...
 
While having never lived in Chicago, I follow Chicago news fervently,
simply because it's more interesting than Indianapolis and has a much
better newspaper.  The annual problem of teacher salaries has been
causing problems again and is a prime example of American executive
logic:
 
The teachers were promised (in writing/contract) a 6% raise this year.
The Finance Authority puts together all of the details & whatnot and
decided the funding didn't exist for this, contract or not and
was going to abolish it based upon a deficit budget.  When the
Chicago Superintendent of Schools was interviewed (I heard this replayed
on WMAQ - a good news station) and asked about this he said, "Well,
it's up to the Finance Authority.  If they feel not increasing teacher
pay will help us financially, then that's what should be done, no
matter what the contract says."  When asked if he would be willing
to give up his increase to save money, he replied, "No.  It's in my
contract.  In writing.  I work hard for my money and have a right to that
increase and to take it home."
 
'nuff said.
From: damon@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Damon Antos)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Living Cost Index
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:32:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.

_The_ best way to find out about a new place is to read the
"Places Rated Almanac", Richard Boyer & David Savageau, Prentice Hall

It rates 333 metropolitan areas in the US on cost of living, entertainment,
weather, etc.  I believe it is updated every year or so.  It is paperback
about 8 1/2x11 by 1" thick.

...damon

damon@syl.nj.nec.com -or- uunet!syl.nj.nec.com!damon
by day: 609.734.6115; by night: 609.275.8867

-- 
damon@syl.nj.nec.com -or- uunet!syl.nj.nec.com!damon
by day: 609.734.6115; by night: 609.275.8867
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Gaining system administration skills
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:20:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Triangle Computer Society

In article <1992Sep1.162721.18531@news.acns.nwu.edu> skrenta@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Rich Skrenta) writes:
>brettw@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Brett D. Watson) writes:
>>  Can the basic system administration skills learned be carried to
>> another job with a different flavor of Unix?
>
>Yes.  There are always system specific things you need to know, but

	Good.  At least some admins out there are worth the name ...

>there are far more things which are common from system to system.  Some
> ...
>The difference between not knowing anything about system administration
>and being a compentent SCO XENIX admin is far greater than the difference
>between knowing Xenix and SunOS.  An experienced VMS admin has a big
>head start on someone who doesn't know anything about system adminstration.

	Precisely.  It's the thing behind the buzzword that counts ...

>
>Getting by the HR keyword-scanners is another matter.  To solve that
>problem I'd pick up a used Sun for < $1K in misc.forsale.computers and
>hack on it at home.  Presto:  SunOS experience.

	Yah.  BUT  having learned it, you still have to overcome the
	qualification - lack in on-the-job experience.

	Most recruiters juyst will not believe you can pick up C++/OOPS
	OOA/OOD/SPM/GUI/fundamental research/kenrel-hacking
		at home.
But if you are on the RIGHT track (learn how to do it) rather than the
WRONG track (convince people you can before you can), no problem ...


>
>--
>Rich Skrenta
(right ob, Rich)

royc
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Headhunter Fees ?
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:17:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


I have a different approach to job hunting. It has been sucessful
for me an the people that I have taught it to.

First, I haven't heard you mention any professional associations.
If this is the 4th largest city there should be a local chapter
of something...Networking really helps in getting a job. 

Second, if she has been looking for more than a year, why does
she only have 100+ places that she has contacted? I may be in Ca
now, but I survived for 6 years in Denver, which is smaller than
Huston, was just as dependent on oil in the 70's and 80's. 
I could contact that many in a month. If she has made it to
interviews, get feedback. I know that it is hard to do things 
after you say no, but try anyway. The places that she likes
she should show her interest. Perserverence has gotten me jobs
that I was not qualified for. A call every couple of weeks
"hi, how's it going? Anything new happening? ... Thanks for your
time, talk to you soon..." It took 6 months of this for me to get one
job that I wanted...

Third, once you have a network started, do odd jobs for them. What
ever you can get. I would think that part-time in your choses
field would be better than a store.

My personal vote would be against this agency... x

k

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Government preparation (was: ...Americans... vacation time?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:14:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Sep2.141216.11425@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.082556.24395@weyrich.UUCP> orville@weyrich.UUCP (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:
>>When you try to protect people from too much government, sometimes it hinders
>>rather than helps. More often it helps. And in any event, why were Florida
>>officals lacking in their own preparations? They have known for many
>>years that hurricaines happen in Florida. Why did their contingency
>>planning not address such issues? Because Good O'le Uncle will kiss it
>>and make it all better?
>
>...there's a saying
>"earthquakes don't kill people, buildings do."  So the "contingency
>planning" to which you refer would have involved caps on growth...

   The government did their job by having passed some of the most
strict building codes in the nation.  However, an expert on the effects
of wind on buildings recently toured the devastated southern Florida,
and found entire subdivisions (destroyed) which had been built
recently, which did not come close to meeting the building codes.
Nearby, older and/or better-built houses were largely undamaged.
Which people in this case should be "protected from too much government",
the now homeless people, or the negligent builders?
   This discussion is getting ever farther from job-related topics.  Is
there somewhere better to go with it?
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: gwf@sapphire.bellcore.com (George W. Fleming)
Subject: RELOCATION:  Do companies still provide it?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date:  1 Sep 92 12:56:39 GMT
Summary: Is it reasonable to expect it?
Keywords: relocation

Does anyone know whether companies looking to hire people are really cutting
back relocation budgets?  One of my head-hunters recently told me that 
most companies are looking to cut back relocation costs (i.e. instead of 
moving companies, they might ask you to U-haul it yourself).  Furthermore,
he told me that no one is paying for buying and selling of homes.  Is this
true?  Perhaps only the good companies still provide the full relocation 
package?

I am in the situation where I am looking for a job and I DO need assistance
financially in moving.  If I were able to sell my condo today (which won't
be easy), I would owe my bank $20K (prices have tumbled).  There is just
no way I can pay that kind of money and still be able to find a new home
in a new area.  I would need every bit of financial help that I can get.  I
know that several years ago, a lot of companies would help you sell the
house and compensate for certain losses.  Are there still companies out
there that still do that?  Am I asking too much?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

George


-- 
-------------------------
George W. Fleming
gwf@sapphire.bellcore.com
-------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke)
Subject: Re: Job in UNIX vs OS/2 world.
Organization: National Science Center Foundation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:49:25 GMT
	<1992Aug31.123823.25049@hemlock.cray.com>

In article <1992Aug31.123823.25049@hemlock.cray.com> bgm@cray.com (Bert Moshier) writes:

>In article <x-hn5gm.mesm@netcom.com> mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
>>I can't say what OS/2 has for a future, but Unix is growing
>>faster than any other OS, has been for last 3 years, and probably
>>will be until 1995 (Market share growth).
>>--
>>Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
>
>Mary:
>
>Not to raise a flame, but how are your measuring marketshare growth.  I know
>that OS/2 sold 1,000,000 copies in its first four months and did another
			  ^^^^^^

Keep in mind that Unix may sell one copy, but get a hundred users.

--
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own. | No matter how    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|========================/ subtle the       |
|Augusta, GA                    |wizard, a knife between the shoulderblades |
|francis@galois.nscf.org        |  will seriously cramp his style.          |
\===========================================================================/
(Formerly francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us,francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu)
-- 
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own. | No matter how    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|========================/ subtle the       |
|Augusta, GA                    |wizard, a knife between the shoulderblades |
From: Lee_-_Johnson@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Wall St. area furnished apt needed
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 92 19:43:40 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

Need a furnished apartment in the Wall St./Lower Manhatten area for 6+ months.

May need 2 or 3 for several contractors who will be working there.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: smn@netcom.com (Subodh Nijsure)
Subject: Headhunters/Job shops in Canada.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 06:47:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 



Hi,
	If anybody  out there knows names of headhunters in Canada, please
send e-mail them to me at smn@netcom.com.

	BTW, how are the job opportunities in Canada for SW Eng with
X, X-server extension , Motif, C++ industry exp. (3+ years )?

-Subodh (smn@netcom.com )
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Subodh Nijsure ( smn@netcom.com )
From: pettigrew_mi@ripple.enet.dec.com (Mike Pettigrew)
Subject: Re: How to motivate peers in a quality circle?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 25 AUG 92 16:07:45 PDT


In article <1992Aug25.124422.5123@hellgate.utah.edu>, twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes...
>In article <1992Aug13.224623.18064@igor.tamri.com> viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge) writes:
>>	Greetings,
>>
>>	Has anyone had experience with motivating a group
>>	of peers in a quality circle? If one is a leader,
>>	but not a boss how does one get the others to
>>	perform? I can't give them money, a 4O1K plan,
>>	comp time etc., a new job title, I'm just a peer.	
>>	And as a peer, I have no authority.
>>
>>	Now supposeably we should participate in our quality circle 
>>	because we know what is good for our company is
>>	good for us (we get to keep our jobs.) But in reality
>>	the people in these groups could care less. Talk
>>	about taking their jobs for granted! I asked my group
>>	what would motivate them. My worse member suggested
>>	comp time and money of course--very material needs.
>>


I have lead a quality circle under the circumstances you describe.  I
found that people very consistently behave in ways that bring them rewards
from their supervisors, 

That does not always mean money or comp-time off, or recognition, or even
praise.  People have very different interpretations of a "reward", and
it is a critical task of the group leader to find out what those individual
definitions are.

Once you have some idea of the individual desires for "reward", your best
bet is to speak with each of the team members supervisors, and encourage
them to do what they can to supply that reward.  To the extent that any
of the team members recieves any reward *** from their supervisors ***
for participation, you should also then make that fact known to the other
team members.

Peer recognition is not a sufficient motivation for consistent performance of
a quality circle, and in fact will be subtlely discouraged by management
actions.  Make sure that the team activities are visibly supported by managers
on a collective and indiviual basis.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| -Mike Pettigrew        pettigrew_mi@ripple.enet.dec.com
|                        (206) 661-3032
|                        Digital Equipment Corporation 
|                        Federal Way, Washington, USA
|___________________________________________________________________________
|  Surprises Every Day!
|___________________________________________________________________________
|These opinions are mine and not necessarily my employer's
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: crawford@church.mitre.org (Randy Crawford)
Subject: Re: Unix Certificate- Worth it or not?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:24:46 GMT

In article <66904@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprbm@prism.gatech.EDU (Bruce Mccullough) writes:
> Straight to the punch- Ga Tech Continuing Education offers several certificate
> programs in UNIX, networking, software engineering, etc. I have some good
> experience in Unix but was wondering if the certificate would help in my 
> job search endevours. I'll list the required courses with a brief description
> so that you may get a better understanding.
> 3 required courses:
>   1)UNIX for users/programmers(beginner) -   I'd have no problem with this
>   2)UNIX Shell Programming(intermediate) -   no experience here
>   3)Unix System Administration(advanced)  -   training in this area now
> 
> 2 Electives:
>   1)X Windows - I have no experience here
>   2)Unix tools- some experience here     
> 
> Since I am a staff member I'd be getting a discount so the total cost would
> be about $2300. Is that to much? I'm sure that I could get alot of this just
> sitting at the computer but the Certificate. I could always say that I know
> this or that but with this I would have a piece of paper and some formal
> training. The instructors for these classes are creditable. How bout your 
> thoughts on this. By the way I'll be graduating in 2 quarters with a CIS 
> degree (just FYI to help you to counsel me a little better).

I can't speak as one who has such a certificate, but I would say that the
advantage of practical certificates like these is greatest for entry level
folks who are seeking jobs which will expect immediate Unix sophistication.

In looking over resumes, I would be encouraged to see a recent college grad 
who had the wisdom to prepare for the "real world" where pre-existing 
programming skills are prized and theory skills are largely unimportant.
It'd also be nice to not have to wait 6 months for this entry-level hire
to learn the necessary fundamentals before being able to contribute to the
work.  IMHO, A certificate is a better indication of Unix competency than 
degree coursework or university employment.

If you want employment in a Unix environment, and don't have great grades
or professional experience which will wow the recruiters, then I think a
certificate is a good thing.  If you can afford the $2300, I'd say go for it.
(And I'd place higher priority on X Windows and system-level Unix programming 
over shell programming or sys-admin studies.)

These Unix certificate programs must be doing someone _some_ good.  They are 
offered by the U. of California in the bay area, and by at least one school 
here in the DC area.

(As a point of reference, I am a Unix/C/AI programmer who programs Xlib exten-
sively and shares sysadmin responsibilities with several others for HP work-
stations.)
-- 

| Randy Crawford        crawford@mitre.org        The MITRE Corporation
|                                                 7525 Colshire Dr., MS Z421
| N=1 -> P=NP           703 883-7940              McLean, VA  22102
From: egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges)
Subject: Re: Great Good CEOs...NOT ( was: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:55:13 GMT

In article <2SEP199213061273@rover.uchicago.edu> frank@rover.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <168569A47.IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>, IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil) writes...
>
>	Currently living in Chicago, with children going to Chicago schools,
>	I have even more interest in the subject, so may I make a minor
>	correction to the above:
>
>	"and is a prime example of American politicians' logic"

I think the original posters' point may have been (he did not make it
clear) that the behavior of the Chicago schools superintendent was
typical of a managerial class which includes BOTH pols and CEOs;
certainly, that's the way I interpret the behavior.  That is, the super
is representative of a class of people who shuttle between private
business and politics, making sure they aggrandize themselves in either
bailiwick.  CEOs assure themselves of fat salaries while forcing
givebacks from unionized employees; school superintendents take their
money home while reneging on contracted increases for teachers.  Both
justify this behavior with variants of "libertarian",
survival-of-the-fittest, capitalist ideology.  If a man is so "fit" he
can push aside other men to become school superintendent or CEO, he
DESERVES his raise, whereas men and women who labor for peanuts as
teachers are obviously "unfit" and for this reason they do not deserve
to have their contracts honored.  This is the secret reasoning.


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc