From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:18:30 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <95610@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <12167@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Free speech was originally intended in a considerably more limited
# #form than at present -- as primarily a protection against prior
# #restraint.
# 
# So why isn't freedom of association view likewise?

The analogy breaks down because there is no equivalent of prior
restraint in this area.  Further, there is no evidence that
freedom of association was so narrowly restricted at the time of
the Revolution.  Keep in mind that freedom of association is not
explicitly protected, but is an outgrowth of the Ninth Amendment --
the same one that protects (or at least, should protect) your
right to do in private what you wish.  (The Hardwicke decision
was not a wise one).

# #You are perfectly able to be a homosexual in private.  You don't
# #have to announce everywhere you go, and thus make it an issue to
# #employers or landlords.
# 
# This belies the fact the most sexual orientation discrimination is
# NOT provoked by the person who eventually gets harrassed or fired.
# Most of the time it is a matter of PERCEIVED sexual orientation,
# rumor, gossip. Either that or the employer's insistance upon
# using a question like "are you gay" to screen out applicants.

Oh, so you are primarily concerned about mistakes?  That's easy
to fix -- we have slander laws about that.  If Joe tells your
boss that you are a homosexual, and you get fired, and you aren't
a homosexual, you go sue Joe for slander.  Unless you are a public
figure, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 
# #[Shelter and work] are not monopolies.  There is an
# #enormous amount of competition in both shelter and work, and
# #increasing state power should always be viewed with extreme
# #prejudice.
# 
# Therefore, the Federal Government had no business interfering in the
# Hurricane Andrew relief effort! There was enough competition in the
# private sector to assure a peaceful transition back to normal operations!
# 
# Right!

By all the press reports I've seen, it's not clear that the Federal
Government is doing such a great job down there.

# The fact is that abnormal situtations such as this have to potential to
# occur. What if a cabal of heterosexist pigs controls the major companies
# (including the banks, which might be used to obtain small business loans)
# in a small town. The town is small enough for everyone to know something
# about everyone else's sexual orientations. The big cheeses decide to
# prohibit hiring gays, or giving them loans, for that matter.

Yes, but does this happen?  And why don't the homosexuals in town
do what most racial minorities have always done when confronted with
these problems: stand together?  In the Asian community, the tradition
of the rotating credit association played a major role in capitalizing
small businesses.

# It would be nice to have a government which would stand up for individual
# rights over group rights for a change.

What about my individual right to decide who to rent to?

# #I should ignore you when you say that the homosexual
# #community is divided about sex with children?
# 
# For the tenth time, I said that many gay men were divided as to how
# to approach the age of consent. Whether it should be an absolute,
# arbitrary age (say, 18), or whether there should be other factors
# to weigh, like parental consent, relative age of the adolescents in
# question, etc.
# 
# My original comments may not have made this clear, but I certainly have
# made myself clear nine times over.
# 
# And, by the way, no, I don't think any prepubescent child has any
# capability of informed consent to sex with a postpubescent individual.
# Let them instead "play doctor" amongst themselves!
# 
# kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,

Yet you just claimed that pedophilia (adults having sex with children)
isn't child molestation.  Why make that distinction, if not to 
defend pedophiles?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.