HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: contributions
Keywords: money
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 20:50:45 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha) writes:

> I remember what happened a few years ago which gave me a perspective on
> donations.  A Baptist church ran into some financial trouble and our Archbish
> gave them some money.  This was at a time that churches were closing and othe
> catholic charities did not have abundant funds.  When asked why he did this,
> the archbishop said, in effect, that it was not anybody else's busniess what
> he did with the money.  Needless to say, contributions dropped.

that's a pretty cheeky attitude, even for a bishop...

>
> I think that parishes have two problems.  1.  Most people don't know where th
> money goes so there is no feedback as to how much need there is.  2.  If they
> did know some of the places, they would actively cut the paltry sums they giv
> now.

I dunno about this.  If anything, the laity are becoming more and more active
in parish affairs.  Sure, you've still got pastors who rule with an iron hand,
but they're literally a dying breed.  Seems to me that it should be easier to
see where the money goes in a parish that has a strong parish council.

Of course, my pastor is the comptroller of the archdiocese, so he normally
doesn't get much of a hard time when it comes to money <g>.


>
> Since I don't know the actual history, I have to go on some anecdotes from
> my parents, but in the past, the local church did a lot in the way of helping
> the poor, running schools, and anything leftover might go to missions or
> religous orders where it would directly do good.  Right now, if I want to
> support a soup kitchen, retired religous, or missions, I have to give directl
> to them.  Today, the dollars that go into the collection plate are equally
> likely to go into something non or pseudo catholic as to something that will
> bolster the Church.

How the money gets spent is only an issue if you want to know about the portion
of the funds that goes to the diocese.  If you have lights on at Mass, the
air conditioning is running (no small concern here in New Orleans), and the
school is operating, you can rest assured that the money is being spent
properly.

If you find out that money going to the diocese is being spent in an improper
manner, raise a fuss.  If your parish agrees, perhaps you can do something
about curtailing your contribution to the central administration.  We have so
many independent second collections here in New Orleans, it's pretty easy to
pick and choose what you want to support.




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:12:34 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 10

                    Sunday, January 10, 1993
                      Baptism of the Lord

Isaiah 42:1-4, 6-7                              Psalm 29
Acts 10:34-38                                   Matthew 3:13-17

                              FIRM

"Suddenly the sky opened and he saw the Spirit of God descend like a dove and
 hover over him.  With that, a voice from the heavens said, `This is My
 beloved Son.  My favor rests on him.'" --Matthew 3:16-17

Before Jesus began His public ministry, He needed to be confirmed by the Spirit
and affirmed by the Father.  Before we minister in Jesus' name in 1993, we also
need to be empowered by the Spirit and hear the Father's affirmation.  We must
know deep down that we are temples of the Holy Spirit (I Cor 6:19), beloved
children of the Father and pleasing in His sight (see Mt 3:17).

Confirmed and affirmed, we will go about "doing good works and healing all"
who are "in the grip of the devil" (Acts 10:38).  We will establish "justice
on the earth" (Is 42:4, 6).  We will be "a light for the nations, to open
the eyes of the blind, to bring out prisoners from confinement" (Is 42:6-7).

These are the works of Jesus and His followers.  In fact, we who have been
confirmed by the Spirit and affirmed by the Father can do works even greater
by far than Jesus did (Jn 14:12).  Why?  Because we believe in Him and He
intercedes for us at the right hand of the Father.

On this last day of the Christmas season, open up to the ultimate Christmas
present.  Ask for the Trinity to do in you what was done at Jesus' baptism.
Alleluia!


Prayer:  Father, thank You for the wonders of Your love during the Christmas
         season.

Promise: "We must do this if we would fulfill all of God's demands." --Mt 3:15

Praise:  Alleluia!  The Father loves, Jesus saves, the Spirit confirms!
         Alleluia!
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
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From: rich_b@sn4402.oldham.gpsemi.com (Richard Bogusz)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: (no subject given)
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:15:31 GMT
Organization: GEC Plessey Semiconductors

In article <9212212214.AA22036@cirrus.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, weitzel@CIRRUS.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (John Weitzel) writes:
Main body of message deleted...

 
|> Thanks for your response.
|> 
|> Merry Christmas
|> and
|> May God Bless America

What about the rest of the world?  Don't we count?

-- 
Richard Bogusz				"You can lead a horse to water..
GEC Plessey Semiconductors LTD		But a pencil must be lead!"
Oldham, United Kingdom.				Stan Laurel 
E-mail: rich_b@oldham.gpsemi.com
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: My Christmas day with Geraldo R.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 12:41:22 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU> writes:

>      The show certainly made my day better.  I also had to revise my impressi
> of Geraldo just a bit.
>
> Glad to be back at work instead of home sick,
> Brent

Just be thankful that you weren't home when he was doing a show like 'adult
movie stars whose moms approve of their careers!'  :-)




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: contributions
Summary: how much does the avg Catholic give?
Keywords: money
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:07:02 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

The results of a first survey of parish data were just announced. Data is from 
churches that have computers and pretty much back up what I've posted here 
previously. I said 20% of the people give 80% of the donations dollar wise. 
The actual survey showed that 19% gave 75%. It also indicates that the vast 
majority of Catholics give around $40 per year to their church. Less than a 
dollar per week. Presumably this is from their Christmas or Easter donation.

A gentleman sitting next to me at Christmas mass proudly put a dollar bill 
into the basket. A commentary of our times?

fred 
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Subject: Re:      Re: lay associates to holy orders
Organization: UW Computing
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:32:09 GMT

In article <CATHOLIC%92122215273237@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>,         Jim McIntosh <JIM@AMERICAN.EDU> writes:
|> On Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:30:18 GMT Martha Smith said:
|> >The Sisters of the Holy Family (Bay area) have a program of lay
|> >associates (both genders) who go through a year's formation (phone
|> >calls/ weekends etc) and then make commitments (for a year at a time, I
|> >believe) to religious service. During that year the associates maintain
|> >certain ties to the community of professed sisters. It is an interesting
|> >blend of lay and religious life - very appropriate to our time, I
|> >believe. Does anyone know of other similar programs?
|> 
|> Well, there's the Secular Franciscan Order -- a lay religious order. The
|> SFO is both a canonically recognized religious order, with a rule of life
|> approved by the Pope, and at the same time it is a religious order
|> composed of lay men and women. We are people who want to live the Gospels
|> in the way of St. Francis of Assisi, and who are called to live in the
|> world as lay people. We believe that Francis's total acceptance of the
|> Gospel Life is a message of importance to today's world.
|> 
Thank you for your response.  I am familar with Third Orders (I attend a
Domican parish).  The primary difference between Third Orders and the lay
associates of the Sisters of the Holy Family is that the associates are in
effect temporary members of the order rather than a separate entity and that
one's committment to a year of service is directly related to the goals of
the order.  In effect, one pledges a part of one's time to doing the same work
that the professed sisters do.  For lack of a bettern analogy I would say that
the associates are to professed sisters as permanent deacons are to priests.
The associates differ from "volunteers" in that a year's formation is required
of them prior to their making their commitment.

I believe that there is a serious need in the Church to provide spiritual
training and support to laity.  I am the coordinator of lay liturgical 
ministers for my parish and as such feel a need for education, community and
support since I am to provide those to the ministers I coordinate - the
priest sees his role as a chaplaincy.  I firmly believe that in such a role
the parishioners need to have as much confidence in my training and belief as
they would have in a priest's.  Which is not to say that my knowledge needs to
be as broad as a priest's - I need some basic liturgical knowledge, some 
theology of the Eucharist and some basic biblical studies if I am supporting
Eucharistic ministers, Readers and Presiders (for services in absence of a
priest).  Any idea how other dioceses/parishes are handling this problem?

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:18:59 MST
From:         Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Financing education (was Queens School Board
              22 Dec 1992 17:05:11 -0600 from
              <TBEAUDOIN%UMKCVAX1.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>

On Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:05:11 -0600 Thomas said:
>If a voucher system
>were established in this country, and let's say every parent suddenly
>had an extra $2000 to spend on private schools per year, it is reasonable
>to me that most private schools, including Catholic ones, might
>raise their tuition $2000 accordingly, in order to avoid opening up the
>schools to the more general public.  Perhaps this is a cynical viewpoint,
>but i only raise it having experienced being a student and a teacher
>within the private/catholic schools.  If more people have access to
>catholic schools, discipline in the schools might be (seen to be) threatened.

Experience has shown this not to be true.  Many Catholic schools have pay-what-
you-can plans for the disadvantaged.  Some larger cities have experimented with
 voucher plans (Chicago comes to mind) to allow disadvantaged kids to go to
private and religious schools.  It didn't cause the rates to go up, and was
quite successful in some cases.  Many of those disadvantaged kids got far
superior educations to what they would have gotten in their neighborhood
schools.  I'm not sure of the status of these programs now.  It seems to me
they were under-fire a couple of years ago in Chicago because separation of
Church and State is so much more important than helping out disadvantaged
kids who are at high-risk.
     My fifth-grader's class at his Catholic school has a huge waiting list to
get in.  If his school really wanted to keep those "undesirables" out, I'm sure
tuition could be substantially raised without enrollment going down at all.
     I believe you'll find that there are far greater numbers of less
financially well off kids in Catholic schools than you would surmise.

>Generally, if parents have to stretch their money toi
>(to) send a kid to school, there is more pressure on that student
>to be high-caliber.

     My experience leads me to believe that the parents stretch their budgets
and send their kids to Catholic schools because they want them to be well-
educated and have good Christian morals conveyed. (high-caliber?)  You've
got the cause and effect backwards when you say they want them to be high-
caliber because they are spending so much money.  The key here is that those
parents care about their children's education and moral development and are
willing to sacrifice for their children.

>Thomas Beaudoin

Brent
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: schroede@eagle.sangamon.edu (Ray Schroeder)
Subject: Re: lay associates to holy orders
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Sangamon State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:16:57 GMT

Jim McIntosh (JIM@AMERICAN.EDU) wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:30:18 GMT Martha Smith said:
> >The Sisters of the Holy Family (Bay area) have a program of lay
> >associates (both genders) who go through a year's formation (phone
> >calls/ weekends etc) and then make commitments (for a year at a time, I
> >believe) to religious service. During that year the associates maintain
> >certain ties to the community of professed sisters. It is an interesting
> >blend of lay and religious life - very appropriate to our time, I
> >believe. Does anyone know of other similar programs?
> 
> Well, there's the Secular Franciscan Order -- a lay religious order. The
> SFO is both a canonically recognized religious order, with a rule of life
> approved by the Pope, and at the same time it is a religious order
> composed of lay men and women. We are people who want to live the Gospels
> in the way of St. Francis of Assisi, and who are called to live in the
> world as lay people. 

I have been a Secular Franciscan for seven years.... it has helped to
make my life more meaningful.... as a husband and parent, I find it a
great way to express my commitment to the franciscan way of life....

Here in Springfield, Illinois there is also an associates program run by
the Dominican Sisters...

Pax et Bonum!

Ray Schroeder <schroede@eagle.sangamon.edu>
Institute for Public Affairs
Sangamon State University
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Vatican on Internet???
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:26:39 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

bz223@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Danny Guy Frezza) writes:


>	Does any have any information concerning the Vatican being on the
>Internet? I wonder if there is available documents, etc.. that are
>accessible to everyone? I haven't heard of it, but thought I would ask if
>there does exist an Internet connection to the Vatican.

Haven't heard that yet.  Right now they are busy getting their astronomy lab
set up just outside of Phoenix. Stargazing should get us a head start once we 
find other intelligent life out there.  'Should we suggest baptism to other
intelligent life?'is currently a hot topic there.

fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re:      Operation Rescue
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 08:33:41 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak) writes:

> In article <199212160841.AA02299@caritas.cotdazr.org>,         "Gordon C. Zaf
> |> On Dec 6,  7:22am, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
> |> } Subject: Re: Asylum (sanctuary)
> |> }
> |> } Hmmm...shame that other OR rescues in this country don't follow 'princip
> |> } non-violent action.'
>
> Sometimes the abortion-mill staff fabricate charges of violence in order to m
> propaganda against OR.  In New Bedford, Massachusetts, one employee claimed t
> rescuers pushed a door against her and broke her nose.  She appeared on TV wi
> large gauze bandage across the bridge of her nose, and said, "I think they're
> violent".
>
> She had actually broken her nose in a car accident several days prior, and ha
> wearing only a "band-aid", but concocted the above story and dressed up her i
> for the cameras.
>
> Abortion mill employees also regularly lie about the effectiveness of rescues
> when no-one is seen entering the building but staff and police, they will cla
> that "all the procedures scheduled for the day" were performed.
>
> Basically, *any* statement made by abortion mill staff after a rescue should
> considered as probably false.
>
> ---
> Richard Aquinas Chonak, norris@athena.mit.edu
> "Every word she utters is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'."
>       -- Mary McCarthy, on Lillian Hellman

I would also say the same for many of the so-called 'police brutality' claims
made by Operation Rescue protestors.  There is video documentation (at least
here in this part of the country) of assaults made by OR protestors against
clinic defenders.  All you've proved here is that both sides are capable of
distorting the truth.  That still does not justify OR's violent behavior.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: A question
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:45:26 GMT

In article <CATHOLIC%92122723223466@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU> kruger@HARDY.MATH.OKSTATE.EDU (Cera) writes:
>        How does a woman who has never even been baptized, much less
>had any experience with a church, become a Catholic?
>        I don't know for certain that this is the path that I wish to
>take. But as I read your discussions and see what you believe, I am
>considering it. It's not something I would do lightly, therefore I
>am taking a long time to think about whether or not this is the path
>I should take.
>        Any information would be appreciated.

   Cera, if that woman is you, what you probably want to do is to
enroll in an RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) class.
This is the normal route taken for people who wish to convert to
Catholicism.  There is no obligation to join the Catholic Church if
you go through RCIA, although the longer you stay in it the more it is
assumed you will.  Still you may withdraw from the program at any
time, and I've never heard of pressure being put on anyone who had
second thoughts.

   In RCIA classes there are generally three categories of people,
four if you include sponsors.  The first category is those people who
have never been baptized.  At the Easter vigil Mass they are baptized
and confirmed.  You would fall into this category.  The second
category is converts from other Christian denominations, who have
already been baptized.  At the vigil Mass they are confirmed.  The
third category is Catholics who have already received all the usual
Sacraments except Confirmation, which they too receive at the vigil
Mass.  Sponsors are those Catholics who have already been confirmed in
the Catholic Church, but who volunteer to be someone's sponsor for
RCIA.  Often sponsors have themselves gone through RCIA as
"candidates," although many (like me) who were raised Catholic were
confirmed as children, and so never went through RCIA (although we did
have catechism classes).

   Another category that I forgot to mention is "just interested."  A
person in this category may fall into any of the above categories, but
wants to attend merely to learn more about Catholicism, rather than
having a goal of going through Confirmation.

   My advice to you if you want to join an RCIA class is to call the
appropriate Catholic parish office to find out when they are held.
Most RCIA classes are probably mid-term at this date, so you would
probably have to wait another year for Confirmation.  However, it
probably would be perfectly OK for you at least to sit in on this
year's class.

   Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: ajpg1322@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Angelo J. Paguia)
Subject: Re: Marrying a divorcee
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:47:01 GMT

esler@APOLLO.HP.COM writes:

>I have some questions about canon law as it applies to the situation
>of a Catholic who wishes to marry a divorcee.  Can anyone tell me what
>the Church law is regarding to the following situations:

>Kevin Esler //hewlett-packard/cso/stg/std/clo/mll (MA Language Lab)
>esler@apollo.hp.com   (508) 436-5979

Refer to the book "Faith Explained" by Leo Trese, Sinag-Tala Publishers
(Manila).

Also, my understanding is that there is no difference between a 
Catholic (in the case of marriage) and any other Christian baptized
person. Hence, "non-Catholic" should be thought of as non-Christian.

I defer any further discussions to the one by Marty Helgesen.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Monday, 21 Dec 1992 23:31:11 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
 <kom6VB2w165w@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us>

In article <kom6VB2w165w@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us>,
elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) says:
      <<Stuff omitted>>
>Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
>Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they feel
>to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.
>
>
>
>|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
>|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|

The abolitionists who operated the Underground Railroad broke the
fugitive slave laws, and probably a bunch of other laws, too.
Were they wrong to do so?


-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Experience beats in vain upon a congenital progressive."
        --  C. S. Lewis
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