From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: 666=777 re: t: Moral Kiosk
Organization: The Great Beast 666 - being Baphomet again, I guess . . .
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:04:25 GMT

chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:
>: I was wrong about Scott Tai: the name is not a trekkie pun after all.
>: Scott Andrew Tai, or S.A.T. for short, is the product of someone's warped 
>: sense of humour:
>: 	If the person/cipher exists, I invite it to come out of the 
>: electronic closet and allow us to send e-mail to it.

mensa@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>One has only to dare!  It's mensa@nyx.cs.du.edu.

>moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
>: OK.  I dare the person(s) who posts as Scott Andrew Tai to reveal their true
>: name, and the true username that they post from, which should be local
>: to the taco.cc.ncsu.edu newsserver they forge from, and reachable via mail.
>: 
>: I Double dare.

mensa@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>That's not the plan.  You are welcome to torture me to death for your
>amusement, only allow me to amuse myself a little in the same style,
>and refrain from insult as much as you are able.  

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>: When the author of a message has a history of falsification and lies, the
>: message should be judged by its author as well as by its contents.  When
>: the author of a message makes himself the subject of criticism, then
>: criticism of him is not out of order.

mensa@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>How can you deliberately get up such paltry falsehoods?  I have been so
>far forbearing with you, sir; not that I was ignorant of your miserable,
>degraded character, but I felt you were only partly responsible for
>that; and some of the others on rec.org.mensa wishing to keep up your
>acquaintance, I acquiesced--foolishly.  Your presence on r.o.m is a 
>moral poison that would contaminate the most virtuous.

Hah. Before I launch *anything* else - ooooh, P.C. incorrectness Dude -
us females know that bidding exclusion of a person from the group, even
by *suggestion*, is way bad rude vicious spiteful and Not Nice. You better
be Really Pissed with him to stoop that way. 'Cause the rest of us girls
don't like the formation of cliques, if we think we're at risk. Divisiveness
is un-good nowadays. We're all rainbows, so yum life is fun, mmm, no reason
to invite someone out - just smile, and wrinkle a quick "huh?" furrow in
your brow, and excuse yourself.

=============

<   >  <   >
<  O>  < O >

=============

A little lesson in flaming . . .

Choose your adjectives to match the verbals, or whatever they're called.
It's a matter of style and preference, I suppose -

; "deliberately get up such paltry falsehoods"

; "not that I was ignorant of your miserable, degraded character, ..."

I'm guilty of a lot I would point out with a critical eye, so you're free
to discount what I say where you're internally aware of whether you're
making the best use of your resources - e.g. if you're practicing and learning,
then you're doing alright . . . one of my prize flames was the one I sent
to Franklin, the one which began with "the snake putting on the chain mail
gloves" - I will send a copy of that to you, if you wish. I would offer that
as an example of style - verbal style, style of imagery, and of technique.
Looking back on it - a matter of picking the other person up point by point
and meeting them, and especially the part of insinuating onto them, behavior
they may or may not have, but I know that I am writing the thing for the
consumption of all the people there - so, think of the people there you know
who would appreciate it and write for them, so to speak.

I use a lot of sarcasm, innuendo and double negatives - I think the word is
'sardonic', also 'black humor'.

It is my impression I have had some impact on you, and I watch closely to
see what looks to me like your patterning yourself on things I do. That you
have the talent to do this, means you can go far - because it IS the practice
phase to mimic, to see "how the other person does it" - and then you will
step into your own style, armed with numbers of techniques from elsewhere.

I got ":)" versus ":-)" from a Japanese woman I had an exchange with (answer
to a dating ad, I guess my 2nd post got too personal - she never replied -
oh well, at least I got ":)" from that . . .)

I don't think Mike Steiner is a good flame target - namely, I don't think
he's into that, exactly. Not for what you may be looking for. Imagine a big,
heavy bear - who is a nice bear, but when the flies bother him, he just throws
his paw out and smashes them. The person in this image is not interested in
having fun, such as you seem to be seeking - so look for someone else to do
that with, is my advice. You can try GMS, but you should drop a clue that it's
a game. You can do it with me too, I need practice (yum, yum.)

I know that you're smart, but I also sense in some way that you aren't
possessed of yourself in some way that you need or want - I could be wrong.
I'll gladly share with you, whatever social learning or social smarts I know,
to help you get up to the speed (globally) that I think you'd prefer.

You take your time as you choose, to divulge yourself around "real name",
"real address" & so forth, I know that you in some sense cherish that as
part of your mystique - well, the question is, if you give all that away,
IS there anything substantial left, or was it just someone good at hit-&-run?
You'll see this as a challenge, which it is, so spill it all - and then?
It'll be up to you, to exceed yourself and bring out more and more.

I'll make the offhand guess that you're a person going through processes
similar to what's happening to me - in which case, I can vocalize these
things fairly easily - so if you want to discuss these things in a direct
way, you can quit hiding from me - I won't violate you in what you do with
me. You play with people's curiosity about you, well; see what I'm doing.
I divulge incredible things about me, yet still people there barely know
what to do with it, and nobody responds - and nobody takes up the implicit
offer to do the same as I do - yeah? So, how crazy *are* you? - and like that
people can start spilling.

It may take TIME, and it may fall apart entirely - but I know something
about myself as a Force and around my Intention and my ability to manipulate
things, and I know that if I attend to it strongly and focus, I will be able
to change the character of the group - and so I look at certain elements of
teaching - one, about humans as social beings and how social, emotional rules
take precedence over reason; two, how reason may so easily be integrated
with the animal, if it does not sit up in judgement, but allows that the
animal in fact has a very great deal of wisdom on its own, which *must* be
respected (for it is the TRUTH of human nature.) - and three, how much freedom
we have, that we don't use.

I will look to an opening in time and circumstance, to post the offer to
have "sex in the net" with a willing female, in ROM - this will cost me a
hell of a lot of political capital - I may never get to it, either - but
there's an image. Think Big. Learn to ignore people who bother you; that's
their best medicine. So long as you feel you have to prove yourself, that
tells you something - don't judge it (the reflex) and don't suppress it.
But DO see it in action.

Recall I told the astrology hecklers - hey, I don't care anymore. I'm not
rising to their bait anymore. My response to a bait-flame would be - yeah,
right, I'd said I can ignore you. I still have to pump out the charts I'd
promised, to salvage my own image around my own intentions - but that's
all they get; they can stuff it anymore - agree, disagree - fine either way.
Have a happy life - I am. ":)"

Yeah. So. Back to your material . . .

; "deliberately get up such paltry falsehoods"

; "not that I was ignorant of your miserable, degraded character, ..."

1) Shorten your phrases. You should pack as much image in any one word
as you can. Make the reader reach, make the Reader do the work.
In this material, fuck the ones who don't make the effort to catch on to
YOU. If you flame X and X doesn't respond, then to hell with X. Or; X's
response should be sufficient material to douse X with, there is Always
a way, just find it.

The reason I suggest Steiner is not a good flame target, is he is too
literal - just a matter of style, but his responses to you are not such
good stuff to work off of. The first thing to notice: (a) always acknowledge
what is true, (b) you're free to be slimy & greasy - e.g. slippery, that
you move out of whatever trap they try to set. So - "Tai is X-way" - so?
Yeah, sure - I'm childish, I'm ignorant, I'm a basket case - so what else
is new? Everyone knows this, so I Just Go On - is my M.O. - it rolls off,
like water off a duck. Embrace bashes - yes, I'm Terrible - argh, I admit
it. Ha Ha Ha!! So - yeah. What're you gonna do about it? I ADMIT IT - so,
in essence, YOU LOSE. *Because* it's the net and "not *really* happening",
you have IMMENSE freedom that you would Not have, face to face. So USE IT.

E.g.: (and this is an OCCULT lesson:)
So, I sometimes get turds in the lower colon - which won't leave, but which
I feel as the need to take a shit - so rather than suffer this sensation,
until I would produce another bowel movement, I learned to evacuate myself
with my finger, by reaching in to my (word I don't know!!) canal and pulling
the turds out, while I'm in the shower - and I wash my hands thoroughly,
so there's no smell of shit left - and I'm clean, and that annoying feeling
is gone - so good. So it's just a body. So I make no judgements, as others
would have me do, that this behavior is somehow invalid. It isn't, in my
*local* context. Next step: yes? And why could people not accept to know
this about me - that I do this? I *only* have to find *one* ennabling
counterexample, which permits the behavior - so, cleaning up after a baby.
If I can handle a baby's shit, *why* in the world could I not handle my
*own*?? No reason, except social stricture - so? FUCK society and its denial.
Since I DO THIS, IT IS TRUE and that is ALL the justification that I need.
It is NOT an antisocial act - so I have *no problem* doing it. Nor is there
any reason to be ashamed For it, in regard to others - e.g. if YOU think it's
ugly - then YOU think it's ugly. That's a statement about YOU, not ME.

You think about this a while. Nobody can really stop you from being who
you want to be. All they can do is reject you, right? The fear of this
punishment - to be rejected by society - doesn't wash anymore nowadays.
You will Always find someone who likes you for exactly what you do - and
although you might be rejected by Most people - so what?? Isn't that true
anyway? Most People Don't Give A Shit. Expend energy in exchange with those
who do.

Something like, pick on people whose size is what you Want to be. I know
the image of practicing on people of your "evident current size", but e.g.
their character is important too. Steiner is a bad target. Franklin would
have been a good one. He gave up responding to me - so fine. He neither
engaged in flaming back, nor did he say "well done, I was trashed" - so that's
dishonest - so life belongs to those who claim it, is the lesson - be fearless.
And you will be admired.

-------

That I had decided to post this into the net - rather than as a personal note
to Scott - hey, Scott, I'm sorry, it's my 11th house Sun - but; your private
mail to me will remain private - nothing here divulges you, too much, anyway -
so, Trust Me. I might *laugh* such as to give you some heebie-jeebies - but
that's part of my style. I'm reaching out To You, out of my feminine - so,
I'll forgive my "social-inclusion"-compulsion - all Bozos here, yes? Just want
to see that work in everyone's best interests. Maybe others will learn from
reading this; also, I can show myself off. I shall be appreciated for who I
am, my decision has been merely to disclose myself AS I AM, rather than to be
"polite" or "socially acceptable" - MY society, the one I dream of - cherishes
individuality and self-expression, and does NOT mind aberrance and bizarreness,
it Thrives on it. So be it. Freedom to the masses. And WE are the masses, us
puny little individuals, worlds each, right here, right now.

I know a fuck of a lot about Gender Politics now, what dangerous waters I
tread, the notion of offering "sex in the net" - still, it's a challenge
to people around their personality structures and their belief systems -
Can You See The Freedom You Have? Versus what you believe; what you have
been taught; what you "think others will think". I'm not looking for graphic,
necessarily - because that's not what sex is about. I'm looking for eroticism -
and I know about this, that I know how to do it, even if only patchily yet.
Meet my correspondent in person? Hey - okay, give them a hug and smile -
a big smile - didn't we have fun? And the current reality is of course now a
different one of being two incarnate people looking at each other. May be, no
interest - but as "words and thoughts in the net", cyber-reality is much more
free than current reality allows in actuality - so my cyber-sex-partner could
even be married with children, and do it as a fun exercise - hey, so, cool.
"It's still sex", yes, and drives the imagination, which is essentially all
we have to work with here. Oh well - already two women hard on my case that
things are getting realler as-we-watch - teaches the SHIT out of me, reality
versus fantasy. We can give ourselves away on the net Easily in ways we could
not, personally, for mere lack of resources. One of those women I will
probably get very Badly Hooked Up With, oh die of happiness - eh. All in the
work of a lifetime. Sheeucks. And still be around to tease All The Rest Of You,
all you-all sweethearts out there. Men and Women both, that I love you all.

So you put on that Chain-Mail glove, Tai.

Yeah, back to your material.

; "How can you deliberately get up such paltry falsehoods?"

==> "Oh, Dear - how could you have so misconstrued me? To attack my
	 character, presuming that my attacks upon you were truly malicious . . ."
(of course, you're lying - but that's juicy, and people can laugh.)

; "not that I was ignorant of your miserable, degraded character, ..."

==> "I've overlooked your childish behavior so far; but now, I feel that
	 I must comment upon it . . ."

Use direct speech. "you are X" is better than "your X behavior". Remember
how the emotions are structured, and work with that. "Tai is a dog", versus
"Tai behaves like a dog" - although of course, when you're trying to effect
"responsible, intelligent" behavior, you may have to distance yourself (in
ONE post mind you) from "attackable mistakes of logic". Of course Tai is not
a dog - so knowing that the unclever are always free to catch you there,
you write a rule that says, never stay in a literal place and never make
errors on logical grounds. E.g. if you see what would amount to a banana-peel,
don't make room for it to be thrown your way - anticipate it, and sidestep it.
This teaches.

Shit, I'm yawning. 1AM - guess I must be getting older. Time to go home,
take a shower and masturbate, thinking of my partners-in-potential . . .
ooo yum, it only takes one. She knows who she is. :) And Just Remember - in
ONE of my Very Strong Archetypes, I Am He Who Loves Them All - Oh Yesss -
In His Name - Baphomet. And a toast to those Figures in my Chart,
In His Service - be they: Mars, and Toro, and Eros, and Hidalgo, and the North
Node of The Moon, and Sappho; and in their blessed glory, Venus, and Neptune,
who know how to kill and suffuse; and to Uranus, who brings you this message,
with the ardent support of Mercury Who Sees All And Knows All,
Without Judgement - as we most wish to have him. Shame not the Truth, and the
Truth shall not shame You. The Truth - Shall Set You Free.

Shameless, Shameless. Why have shame?
See ya later, Scott.

-ecsd

=================

Oh gol. In a frisky mood. I don't know. What am I saying? Am I asking him
to "whip it out"? I suppose so. Tell you what - sorta I think, maybe we
can all be such good friends - oh yeah. Ahh, what fun - the Flame Contest.
More like - the Flame Chronicles. An episodic journey into the untouched
frontier of human beingness. Oh yes. I don't call myself Transparently Self
Aware for nothing, you know. Set a Standard, Cut a Swath. Oh, move it &
shake it Baby. {crushing laughter} Ahh yes well. I know. I know. They all
think I'm crazy. Nope. It's just fiction. But then - oh shit - how do you
know? I mean, for real? Hmm. Got you there. Guess you'd - ah - have to
mess with me in person. Well; the net allows for this. My No. Not bidding
people to start voracious dialogues, but "pings" I can handle. I do try to
keep up with all my correspondents, but I see I fall behind. Behind in Lots
of Things, argh it sucks. Oh well. Muddle it through.

Hmm. *How* could I be so Fiery and Such An Asshole in Print, but So Sweet
and Shy in Person? Ha. It just occurs to us to say: of course. Midheaven,
public face, is Sagittarius - who Doesn't Give Two Shits about being rude;
Ascendant, Rising Sign, personal face, is Pisces, who is soft, delicate,
permeable and impressionable, and who knows it and is careful about it.
So - enter Usenet, and *I*, *I* Mars get to carry Venus on my shoulders,
for *I* Mars am Sagittarian, and Venus is Piscean - and She and I of such
markedly different natures have married - O hear the Angels sing - She can
take and use my courage, and I have fulfilled my Destiny - I get to be openly
shy in the network, and lampoon it in the very same stroke. So I get to Get Wet
right here right now and Drink You Back Into Me - so that I can Taste You,
that ever-flicking forked tongue. Master of Images Unleashed, and a Savage
Image that is too - but remember he is your Friend and Loves You Mightily,
so Have No Fear, Things Shall Work Out.

The Call of the Wild awaits.

{
insert here, image of Baphomet. This is the "breasted Goat-god" with right
arm pointing up and left arm pointing down, the one with horns, and usually
depicted with an inverted pentagram in the background. This is the image
that many people call to mind when thinking of Satanism, but Satansists
just co-opted this image (and I think they would say this is a popular
misconception, too), like the Nazis coopted the Swastika from the Native
Americans.
All that Baphomet represents, in simple terms, is direct and irrevocable
(self-risking) involvement in real life - As It Is, accepting it as such.
In the Rider Tarot deck, Baphomet is the figure in the Devil card, with two
chained naked lovers, he to the viewer's left, she to the right; they have
tails, as I recall, and His tail is on fire - the incitement to Lust, which
for being the "fire in every heart of man" has been wrongly condemned by the
Church as Sinful - whereas its sinfulness is merely in its unwillingness to
be Tamed and put to uses other than what it is For. Well, the White People
did this, and now we have VCRs on the one hand - very good; and Automated
Death on the other - very bad. So maybe it's time for White People to reclaim
their Souls, and go back to being Funky, like everyone else is, and collect
all the Death Toys into one basket where people who really want to, can go and
play with them. Hell - in another lifetime or so, *I'd* like to go up and
shoot-up some asteroids with my laser cannon - whooooeeee! {insert Slim Pickens
here.} Practice in defense of My People back on planet Earth. - Ah, Just Don't
let the Republicans try to convince you that Whitley Strieber's aliens are
necessarily-evil-in-advance so that they can pump up the Space Weapon Platform
budget through your fears. Until we overthrow the governmental/commercial
stranglehold on the free flow of information (including the Truth, by the way)
it's best to keep in mind, who tells you what and why.
}

Later, folks.
-ecsd

A thousand-and-one times :)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa