HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: KGANDEK@mitvmc.mit.EDU (Kathryn Gandek)
Subject: Medieval Armor
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:56:52 GMT

Those interested in armor might want to check out the November 9th issue of
Forbes magazine.  Yes, Forbes.  The article is on collecting armor, including
the huge number of fakes currently flooding the market.  (No, not SCA fakes.
There's apparently a huge business in them being done in India and Eastern
Europe.)

However, in addition to the general tidbits about what things cost, there's a
few fascinating paragraphs on the collection of Dr. Herschel and Marili Boyd
from Seattle.  They have the _best_private_ collection of European arms and
armor in the world.  (The article does call NYC's Met collection the best
public collection.)  This opthalmologist and his wife have about 100 pieces
dating from 700 to 1700.  It includes tunics of chain mail, swords, pole arms,
helmets and gauntlets, which they display in a formal gallery in their home.
(Any one in Seattle know if it's open to the public or not?)

More specifically it includes nine pieces of parade armor (helmet, shield,
breastplate, gauntlets, armored saddle and steel chanfron) made for Emmanuel
Philibert, Duke of Savoy, in 1560; a "sleekly designed helmet with blackened
eyeslits and hinged visor worn during around 1415; and a 4 foot sword dated
1099 that was captured by the Ottomans during the crusades.  It has unkind
messages inscribed by the Ottomans in between the Christian symbols on the
blade!

And, yes, the article comes with photographs.

Catrin o'r Rhyd For            Kathryn Gandek
House Windsmeet                Boston area
Barony of Carolingia, East     kgandek@mitvmc.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Help: Request for Address Info in Norway
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:16:39 GMT

Dear Gentles,

My lord is looking for the address for the Curator of the University
Museum of National Antiquities in Norway or the Viking Ship Hall, Bygdoy
near Oslo, Norway.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

In service,

Euriol of Lothian
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Coronets, fillets &Peer Fear
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:23:37 GMT

PBOYNTON%SESCVA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (ROWENA NI DHONNCHAIDH - SHIRE OF GLENN LYNN) writes:

>        The foregoing made me think of the sheer wonder of Duke Sir Morguhn
>Sheridan's TITANIUM CORONET - it doesn't seem to weigh anything!
>        It was made by a Lord Albrecht, who has now moved from the East
>back to Ohio, just when both his marvelous copies and his playful originals
>were making him known inthe East.

  A couple of clarifications:
  
  The gentle in question is named Alberic (close).  He is studying at the 
Cranbrook Art Academy in Michigan.  I can get anyone who wishes in contact with
him.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Re: >swords...
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:40:53 GMT

In <1992Nov4.211436.2657@nmt.edu> toad@nmt.edu (Tod Landis) writes:
>I have just one question about the "red-neck" incedent, why do only the 
>"red-necks" have guns? Granted this state(New Mexico) has some of the 
>lamest gun laws about, but a gun locked away in ones car seems reasonable. 
Listen, I _don't_ want to get into a gun-control discussion, but in
Canada you are allowed to keep handguns only locked up in your house,
or at a shooting range, and you're allowed to have them (locked) in
your car only when moving them between one and the other. 

Authorities in Canada do _not_ think it's reasonable to keep fire-arms
handy for self-defense and to happen to have a hunting rifle handy at
an SCA event makes for a pretty poor defense. I'm not sure if Carolus
is going overboard or not, but a sharp sword is probably the most
lethal legal weapon to have around.

- Corwhin of Lincoln

Duncan Thornton          | An odd thought strikes me - we shall receive no
thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca |             email in the grave.
	
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:36:34 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Lord Daniel of Falling Rocks wrote:
> First of all, that a law is unenforcable does not mean it is a bad law.

Tibor replieth:
> Come again?

In partial support of Daniel on this.

I believe that laws about speed limits and about jaywalking are sound,
and probably necessary, even though they are rarely enforced in the US.
They have some effect, despite that.  This is not quite the same as
unenforceable, but it is close.
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: rhaven@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fealty to a kingdom
Summary: The Crown's Word is Law, but they've got to live there too
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:26:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cruzio.4597
Reply-To: rhaven@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us



A Crown can always abuse their authority.  A Crown _could_ banish anyone
who didn't swear personal fealty, or anyone who didn't give them money, etc.
but it wouldn't last too long.  If such cases, that nasty old interfering
Board would probably track their muddy boots all over the hall and 
advice the Crown to cut it out.

On a more limited basis, the Crown can get away with a certain amount of
this sort of coercion (as can officers, Peers, etc.).  If a Crown has to
take the ball away in order to enforce their will, they lose serious
Style Points and don't do well in their post-royal careers.  

If you are having this sort of problem, find a Ducal, Baronial, or other
respected type and have they explain how short six months is to the 
offending Crown.

Cheers
From: sgg@tropel.gca.COM (Sheila Goodman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: grand faire VS. WAR
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:30:12 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Shandler gives me courage to step out on the Rialto bridge
though I fear the Trolls which dwell with breath of flames
beneath the bridge.
We call it WAR! If you have had your heart pound to the tempo of
a thousand fighters beating sword on shield, screaming themselves
hoarse.  You would let the thin vineer of civilation peel from your
soul for on a primal level war is a human trait.  
No gentles we do not lie awake at  night in December and count the
months to the grand faire...we long for Pensic War.
I send the Coopers christmas cards every year. (Pensic land owners)
May I leave the Rialto with a lighter thought-"NEVER play GO and
eat M&Ms at the same time.
Farewell, Tigger of Moritu  (no longer lonely)
From: frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: visible inauthenticity of archery
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:08:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs1.frnk.720976090
Organization: Bradley University

In <1668@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>Just Gwydion writes:
>> My hope is to be able to set up two clout "areas" (rectangles, representing
>> a formation of troops), one at the traditional 100 yds and another in the
>> 150 to 200 yd range (yes, we _do_ have the room... cha-ching!).  Archers will
>> be able to shoot at either formation.  While I know I'm going to get a lot
>> of "Why would anyone want to shoot at the farther one??" I'm  sure I'll see
>> a sigh of relief from those that shoot higher poundages.
>And when they _do_ ask, you smile politely and answer "Because we can!" ;-)

   True! This past "Police Action" I participated in the archery shoot. There
was a castle invasion shoot, where you had to shoot into a castle made of
three foot walls, a hundred yards away. My shots all seemed to be in the line
of the castle.
   After it was over, I had discovered that my 65# Recurve had drove every one
of my shots 150-180 yards... and I wasn't even drawing halfway! I STILL 
wonder how far Luke can shoot. (BTW: Luke is the polish word for Bow :>

	 Frnk! :>
--
frnk@bucs1.bradley.edu, frnk@camelot.bradley.edu, am417@cleveland.freenet.Edu

   Simon says: don't be so suggestible.
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: swords
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:09:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov9.170947.25177
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

In article 26270@ee.gatech.edu, ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>Almost all the sites in Meridies are safe.  However, I wouldn't
>wear that doeskin cloak and white hat during hunting season.  It
>would be very dangerous.  I tend to wear bright colors
>throughout this season, especailly on camping events! :)


Greetings from Brian,

I'm afraid I`ll have to disagree, In the last year I can name at least three
instances of problems with locals(Mundanes). The most recent of these was
yesterday. At an event in Boloxi Ms we had someone break into a car, parked
next to my van, and take a radar detector and cellular phone. From now on
that parking lot will have to be patrolled.

Three weeks ago near Mobile at a party in a very rural site, I noticed three
young men who looked awful out of place in their baseball caps and levis, 
hiding in the woods at the edge of the camp. I would hate to think of the 
fate of any lady who happened to wander their direction. The party was 
very noisy and I don't know if we would have heard her scream.

Almost every year at Gatalop, and event held in fort Gaines on Dauphin Island
we have problems. My Clan has been helping with security, watching the parking
lot, and keeping the drunks from trying to wander into the fort at night. Last
year, myself and the Park Ranger as well as four of my clan intercepted six
guys with beers in hand, and had to forcefully explain that the fort was closed
and that they would not be allowed to "come in and party too". several years
ago we had some scale the walls on run amuck inside during the night.

This is only a small list. No sites are "safe" all require that someone stay
alert so that other can have fun without worrying.

Brian Princeps Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Pennsic War\Fair (was Eastrealm Crown)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:09:22 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  

Alexander discussed the renaming of Pennsic "War" to "Tournament":

> (1) It seemed terribly condescending... (2) The way it was done conveyed
> a sense that their Majesties were saying that the whole idea of Pennsic
> War was stupid and dangerous...

For some years, I've offered new royalty one piece of advice on how to rule
in the East: Before you do something new, give everyone a chance to offer
an opinion, as early as possible.  Talk to people before you act.  I
consider that to be the central principle of governance in the East.
(Does it apply equally in other kingdoms?)  It doesn't matter how good an
idea may be; if the Crown springs it on the kingdom, then some people
_will_ be angry at them.  Some people will be angry at the change, others
will be angry simply because the change came as a surprise.  If the Crown
explains what it is considering and asks for opinions ahead of time, then
some of those people will still be unhappy with the change, but no one will
be miffed because the Crown blindsided him.  Sometimes it is useful for the
Crown to make people angry, but the Crown should make sure it knows who is
going to be angry and why.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: gun toting rednecks
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:50:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Nov12.035040.2709
Organization: The Rialto

Tuomas Viljanen recently posted:

>Of course, I do not know whether shooting people is the normal way to
>handle affairs in the Wild West, here in the Europe people are more civilized

Ah, yes.  Like that European gentleman, Reinhard Heydrich.  Good manners,
impeccable dresser, first-rate fencer, paragon of civilization.  Pity about
all those bodies....

Hossein/Greg
(whose tongue is firmly lodged in his cheek and begs pardon for the
mundane reference)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: toad@nmt.edu (Tod Landis)
Subject: >swords...
Organization: Electrical Eng. Dept. - New Mexico Tech
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:14:36 GMT

I have just one question about the "red-neck" incedent, why do only the 
"red-necks" have guns? Granted this state(New Mexico) has some of the 
lamest gun laws about, but a gun locked away in ones car seems reasonable. 

Llywd Acres of St. Golias
TOAD
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU
Subject: Skewering mundanes
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:59:00 GMT


Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landon of Wulfkeep, greetings!

William proposes an experiment:

>As to the "swords vs guns" thread, I think one could probably
>try it out experimentally. Get a paintball gun and some non-
>lethal sword substitute. Then act out the situation with the
>rednecks among yourselves. This should demonstrate approximately
>how great your chances are with a sword vs a gun-waving yahoo.

   I see one problem with this.  Your "test redneck" *knows* the
guy with the sword (or staff -- I agree with Yaakov on this) is
going to jump him.  Most "real" rednecks think that a gun is a
sort of magic wand -- wave it and everybody does what you say.
Your real yahoo is still going to be saying something along the
lines of "Whut th' hey?!" when you relocate his testicles to
somewhere around his right ear.
  On the other hand, if the guy who is expecting it can't stop you
the real yahoo is even less likely to, so this error is on the
side of caution...

Yours in service --

   Landon of Wulfkeep                 Landon Falls
   Isenfir, Atlantia                  Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nathan@sparc2.prime.com (Nathan Kronenfeld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Group activity
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:59:12 GMT
Organization: Computervision


I think this question is not as simple as Tibor and Arval state.
First of all, that a law is unenforcable does not mean it is a bad law.
Although there may be many ways around the law requiring an event each year,
the groups in question must realize this. In the case given as an example,
the group thought they needed to host an event each year, and a real one;
consequently, that is what they did.  The law served its purpose, even if it
was not worded as well as possible.

IF the law has results in its intended purpose, and IF there are ways around
it when it should not apple (as there obviously are, given its wording), then
I would submit that it IS a good law.  I think the first half address Tibor's
stated problem with the law, and the second half addresses Arval's, that it
should not have to apply when it would do more harm than good.

Perhaps it could be better written, but it does not seem terribly harmful.

				-ISTTS,
				 Daniel of Falling Rocks
				 Carolingia, East
				 nathan@premise.prime.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 76520.3531@compuserve.COM (Jack Thompson)
Subject: (none)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:12:33 GMT


Bcc: Blind Recipients List:;
Subject: Threading needles

The question came up, how does one thread a hog bristle needle?
First, make friends with a pig.  Seriously, though, hog bristles have a
natural split end (it's why they make such great brushes).  There may be
two/three/four...n flags (splits).  Divide them in two and begin to pull
them apart until the split is within an inch or so of the bulb. If one side
begins to split out away from the middle, increase the angle on the other
side and the split will go back toward the middle (just like splitting a
bit of cedar).  Set the bristle aside and pick up a length of linen thread.
Unravel one end, and begin picking fiber out, until you have a long taper,
terminating in one or two fibers.  Now wax the bejesus out of it (beeswax is
what I use, though there is no reason that parafine wax wouldn't work).
Then flatten the point by pulling it a few times between thumbnail and fore
finger pad.  Now you have a split bristle and a flat thread which terminates
in something hard to see (through my bifocals, anyway). The end of the 
thread will be 2-3 inches long.  Open the split and lay the tip of the 
thread therein.  Close the split and slowly, carefully, begin twirling the
bristle as the line is payed out toward the bulb.  After a few turns (6-8
or so) turn the thread back on itself and turn back to the bottom of the
split.  Now begin a three strand braid; two bristle bits and one thread bit.
After a few braids (about an inch), pass the bulb through the thread (this
can be a little tricky; might want to use a metal needle to make a hole in
the thread), pull it through and twist the thread to pinch the bristle.
Do a few more braids and another locking stitch.  Roll the composite hard
between thumb and finger, or on a hard surface, and you're ready to sew.
Now, remember the shoulder?  Where the thread went from the split toward
the bulb and then back.  If you try to force the needle through something
which catches on that shoulder, it will unthread the needle.  Pass the
needle through (whatever) with a twisting motion and all will be well.
Mostly.  Good luck!
P.S. Two sources for hog bristles came from the net.  Many thanks.
Jack C. Thompson  >76520.3531@compuserve.com<

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mabr@sweden.hp.COM (Morgan the Dreamer Broman)
Subject: You Know You're In The SCA.....
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:04:11 GMT


	When someone calls your name and you don't stop, but when they
	yell "HOLD" you freeze instantly and look around...

	When you meet a person for the first time and think to yourself..
	"I wonder if he/she would fit in a 14th century garb..."

--
HP   : Morgan "the Dreamer" Broman			mabr@sweden.hp.com
SCA  : Morgan deGrey
APD-I: Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
	What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put
	together in a random fashion, to create eternity...

	[R] Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: I am still bewildered
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:20:59 GMT

vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (William de Corbie):
>I am only trying to explain that for me, a European with some experience 
>of both historical recreation and fantasy groups in this part of the world, 
>it is very difficult to understand the mixture of on the one hand, great 
>skill and serious dedication, and on the other hand, blatant disregard for
>history, that the SCA displays.

One could explain this as a combination of SCA history (it didn't start
out to be what it became) and pragmatic accomodations, but let me offer
a different perspective:

The SCA is one of many historically-oriented groups.  Many of the others
have split off from the SCA, or have attracted Scadians, for precisely
the reasons you describe.  In a sense, what you're asking is "why isn't
the SCA one of those other groups?"

There is a continuum of recreation groups, with respect to scope and
authenticity, and the SCA represents one point on that continuum.  If
it is the 600-pound gorilla of medieval recreation groups, it is precisely
because it attempts to accomodate so wide a range and variety of commitment.
If it were more coercive, it would be one of the other, smaller, groups.

>I fear that the cultural differences between America and Europe are greater 
>than most SCAdians have realized -- and that ultimately, we may be headed 
>for a split where Drachenwald forms a separate Corporation.

I don't think you're describing a cultural difference.  There are many
Scadians in America who would also prefer a more authentic and less
anarchic Society.  The reasons they've chosen to remain in the SCA are
probably similar to the reasons you've stayed for eight years.

(I will add that the non-coercive approach seems to work.  Members do
come in at the t-tunic-and-plastic level and become interested in
greater authenticity.  And, as we've read in recent posts on the Rialto,
the highest standards of authenticity within the Society keep rising.)

-----
Dani of the Seven Wells
dani@netcom.com

   The inability of snakes to count is actually a refusal, on their part,
    to appreciate the Cardinal Number system. -- "Actual Facts"
From: brighid@hern.stonemarche.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You know you're in the SCA....
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:36:47 EST
Organization: Hern the Hunter, Stonemarche (NH)

You look through the window into the university craft shop and see
a muscular person standing next to the leather table, hands
describing and measuring off his thighs. And I understood that he was 
getting ready to make cuisses! (upper leg armor)

Brighid
brighid@hern.stonemarche.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:46:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.142531.26585@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
>Ellisif kindly answered my question, but perhaps my indignation was not
>specific enough.  Let me get specific.
>
>There is really no such thing as a Kingdom, separate and distinct from
>the local groups, or the Society as a whole.  As Arval pointed out in
>a separate message, it's not as if you can take away each and every
>local group, and still have a kingdom.  In the East, our Kingdom doesn't
>even show the capability to run it's own events without a local group
>(and, since the genesis of the ruling we speak about is an East Kingdom
>ruling, I think the local angle is apt).

Be careful of overgeneralization.

If all the local branches were dissolved, i think the West would still
function--in part because it *did* function that way at one time.  Our
Great Officers organize and run events--though not all kingdom-level
events are done that way.

In some areas, dissolving the local branch and running things purely
as a kingdom would probably make no difference at all.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: "period" wristwatches
Date: 7 Nov 92 17:54:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BxCxqq.2L4
Organization: Open Communications Forum



The comment that colas are less obtrusive than wristwatches brought up a project
I've been considering...making a good, period-looking bracelet that hides a
wristwatch. I have one of those silly plastic bangle ones, and it's less
obtrusive than my waterproof sports watch, but still looks pretty tacky. To
make matter more complicated, I'm allergic to the base metal used in
jewelry, and to gold...

Any suggestions? (Keep in mind I have little mundane funds...)

Moreach
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet