Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 02:37:00 EST
From:         the anti-elvis <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: AIDS Wars

kerry said:
>let me offer a summary of your
>views as I understand them.
>
>1.  Parents should bear the responsibility of educating their kids about
>sex, sexual hygiene, contraception, etc.  If a kid gets pregnant or
>contracts STDs, it's the fault of the parents.

jasonz responds:
If a kid gets pregnant/STD-infected out of ignorance, its the fault of the
parents assuming that the parents were able to teach him/her about the risks in
question, which is why we were debating whether that assumption holds in
practice.

        and from what we can gather from your earlier posts, this means
        that the state or the community has no obligation, legal or moral,
        to help that kid.  which means that we punish the child and the
        child of the child for the error in judgement of the parent (a
        parent who, if s/he is like most of the parents i know who are
        against teaching kids about sex, will disown the kid for having
        sex at all).

>2.  All parents are equally and fully capable of obtaining, synthesizing,
>and presenting the information necessary to carry out the task in #1.

Practically all parents are able to adequately carry out their duties specified
in #1.  Of course, not all parents are equally skilled, but I think that most
are good enough.  Originally I would have said "all," but your example about
people who are oblivious to the existance of public libraries prevents me from
doing so now.  I still maintain that someone this ignorant could also not be
trusted to carry out many other parental duties (such as providing the proper
diet to an infant).  These people are, I believe, hopeless.

        jason is obviously a man who has not watched nearly enough
        david lynch films.  in my experience, i have found a huge number
        of parents completely dysfuctional.  i have entirely too many
        friends and acquaintences whose parents were abusive and irrational
        (and now i'm talking white middle class america), and completely
        incapable of relating to their children in any way other than
        to give prohibitions and punishments to be capable to adequately
        teachtheir children about how to be responsible about sex.
        fortunately, there was a sex-ed program in school, and the kids
        had some sort of alternate access to information.

        i had gone on a children's rights kick, jason, shortly before
        you joined us.  this is, i think, another place where the legal
        ownership of children by their parents gives parents the idea
        that they can do anything they want with their kids, and that
        nobody else has the right to do anything that the parents don't
        approve of.  the result of this is that a lot of kids get screwed
        over in a big way.

>3.  Therefore, we have no obligation -- moral or otherwise -- to do
>anything to change the current system.  Our high rate of teenage pregnancy
>(one of the correlates of the increasing number of kids living in poverty)
>and the increasing incidence of AIDS among teens (especially black and
>Hispanic) are solely the consequence of informed individual choices.  We
>should simply let the individuals in question suffer the consequences of
>bad choices.

Again, the word "soley" is not appropriate, but most/many of these problems are
indeed the fault of poor choices by individuals.  While I support reasonable
efforts to find a cure for AIDS, we still must realize that the disease is
spread mainly by the unwise and morally dubious behavior of individuals.  The
same goes for teen pregnancy, only more so since I know of know one who has
gotten pregnant through a blood transfusion.

        once again, it is morally dubious *for you*
        not everyone makes the same moral distinctions as you do.
        some people are more concerned with other things.

        however, you have a point.  AIDS and pregnancy have run rampant
        due to the unwise behavior of individuals.  now, explain to me
        one more time why we are morally obligated not teach these people
        the information they need to make a more wise choice?
Jason

(sorry for typos or poor syntax--I'm reall busy)

        brni
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