HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: VCA's
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:14:48 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr15.035304.23566@rice.edu> caudle@hawk.owlnet.rice.edu 
(Chris Aaron Caudle) writes:
>What method of remote control of attenuation is considered
>the best sonically? What method do the most respected
>manufacturers (Neve, SSL, Trident, etc.) use for automation?

The big boys use VCA's for channel triming.  For most of the automated
consoles they use moving fader automation.  The moving fader marketing
type cite VCA noise and distortion.  The VCA marketing types cite
conductive plastic noises and distortion.

I believe that the larger systems (almost exclusivly) use moving
faders for level automation.  And that is the "most respected" method
of audimation.

I was the system architect for a VCA product that GVG builds.  In all
of the testing the VCA's that we used performed extremely well with
noise and distortion in the .05% (THD+noise) at 30 dB attenuation fron
unity.  The VCA is the VCA Associates 1537A part.

BTW the part used by most others is the dbx VCA.  

>I'm considering designing some sort of remote fader system,
>and I'm wondering if VCA's still have the bad sonic reputation
>that they used to. 

VCA's will always be questioned. If you want to do something different
you can do a step attenuator with 0.1 dB steps.  Expensive and no real
way around the zipper noise it will create.

>Also, what are some references I could look up on VCA theory.
>I only need the basics on the VCA's themselves, as I would 
>probably use monolithic devices, but I would need some 
>comprehensive application data for the devices to construct 
>a prototype.

I know of no "how to design a Killer VCA" book.  It requires a good
bit of skilled design work.

VCA Associates did/does put out a booklet on their products.
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
From: u1066579@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Microphone in "Good Morning Vietnam"
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:52:22 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

Hi,
    I wondered if anyone can tell me the type of microphone that Robin Williams
used in "Good morning Vietnam".  What sort of price do these old microphones
fetch today?  If possible please E-mail as I can't always read the Newsgroups.
Best Wishes From Downunder,
Joe,
University of NSW,
Sydney Australia.
From: jrusby@darkwing (Jim Rusby)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Help sought on choosing microphones
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:11:01 GMT
Organization: U of O SOM

In article <1992Apr6.174329.17922@lucid.com>, lnz@lucid.com (Leonard N. Zubkoff) writes:
> 
> After reading the papers, I thought a microphone like the Crown SASS-P would be ideal for my purposes, since I think imaging is very important.  The theory
> behind its operation in the JAES papers I read all seemed to point to a good
> design, and the demo CD I ordered from Crown left me quite impressed with thesound quality.  Unfortunately, after I found one locally and brought it home, I found construction problems which lead me to seriously question Crown's quality control, and so I returned the unit.  With a SASS unavailable, I decided to try using an ORTF technique, as aside from the problems of off-axis sound coloration, it's theory is very similar to that of the SASS.  Further consideration also led me to wonder if the ORTF conf





iguration might be better than the SASS due to the concerts often being held in locations with lousy or marginal acoustics.
> 
We purchased an SASS two years ago, and I've had varied success with it.  The biggest complaint from our audiophiles was the speaker image -we got left, right but no center.  Furthur experimenting found the placement (of course) to be more finicky than expected.

Generally I have been happy with the mic, but not in its intended application. 
Have you tried an M-S configuration?  ALthough best performed with two matched mics (like a pair of 414's ($) ) many engineers  will price out a pair of changable capsule mics, one a bidirectional and the other cardioid or hyper cardioid. With the right modular system you can purchase different M capsules for your specific application.   The only headache is the mounting of the two mics to keep the capsules coincident,  but  Neumann, Sennheiser, and AKG all have hardware that will work.

The beauty of M-S is this- IF YOU ARE ONLY USING TWO MICS  you can put M on one channel and S on the other.  Get your levels right and do the L-R decoding later, like in the studio in a comfortable chair.  You could decode it immediately using either a matrix box, or on a console with 3 pannable faders.

I can email you furthur details if you are interested.  By the way, your research into mic techniques via the AES papers is commendable. A good resource.

Jim Rusby, audio engineer
University of Oregon 
School of Music
Jrusby@darkwing.uoregon.edu
From: gavina@otc.otca.oz (Gavin Abfalter)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:22:32 GMT

in article <1992Apr7.163403.10682@cs.yale.edu>, nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) says:
> Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobi.biology.yale.edu
> 
> In article <1992Apr7.060616.5548@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> payam@landau (Payam  
> Mirrashidi) writes:
> 
>> A question along the same lines: How do you eq a kick so it
> 
> I use EV N/D-457 mics for all drums.  Yes, even the kick! For
>
> [various stuff about kicks deleted]

My two cents worth on micing drums. I almost always use a PL20 on the kick
mainly because of the fact I can be careless with it and it always handles the
SPL's that my tree trunked thighed heavy metal drummer produces :-) (i.e. I
haven't blown one yet!).

> 
>> I guess any hints for miking a snare with SM57 would be
>> appreciated too! 
> 
> One interesting hint I read in some magazine was to use a
> second mic on the underside on the snare to pick up the
> resonating wires.

Yes I have tried that a few times (again it all depends how many channels you
have to play with), but you'll find that micing the bottom of the snare does
more than just "pick up the resonating wires". Just as different positioning of
the top mic will have varying effects using a bottom mic will produce a
charactistic sound all it's own. But of course then you have put them both
together to get the effective sound.... another problem again.

While were on drums have any people out there come across a drummer with a wide
variety of gear to get his different sounds??? Taking snares for example using
say differing materials (wooden, steel, aluminium, etc.), rim sizes, skin
types, even sticks. Do the majority of professional drummers bother with this
sort of detail. (Please don't read this as a slur on drummers coz IT'S NOT!!,
it's just a question).

> --
> Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,

Cheers,

Gav. Abfalter   OTC Australia.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: wiser@leland.Stanford.EDU (Philip Rayne Wiser)
Subject: High Quality VU meters
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 06:34:46 GMT


Does anyone know what VU meters are used in top quality mixing 
consoles( SSL, etc.)?  I was interested in studying their properties 
and maybe trying to simulate them digitally.  Also, where are the 
best places to find them?

	I was curious about the advantage of having a VU display vs. 
the "dancing lights" of many present boards.  Malcolm Chisholm had 
an article in the March issue of Mix about console ergonomics.  He 
wrote that light bars are good for keeping track of the general level 
of many channels.  He suggested that some meters should be 
included for things like checking vocal isolation.  What other benefits 
would there be to the addition of a few assignable meters? (I'm trying
to justify the idea of simulating VU's)

Thanks for any advice,

Phil

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Wiser    "Confusion isn't so bad"  
						
wiser@leland.stanford.edu		 Stanford University
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: jeep@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (maurice.smeets)
Subject: Ibanez SDR 1000 useage
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: bl
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:45:49 GMT
Keywords: SDR 1000


Does any remember the Ibanez SDR1000/+?  Well have not one but 2 of these
things.  The problem is I'm having a hard time getting smooth reverbs
out of them.  For thoese of you who have these things or had them, is
it possible to get a smooth reverb from this box?  Any ideas?

Maurice Smeets
ihlpb!jeep
708-224-2475

Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: cwe34361@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (christian E!)
Subject: Vocals | Distortion > Live
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:47:09 GMT


   Have any of you experienced sound engineers done any work with running vocals
through an effects processor to get a distorted sound (i.e., for industrial- 
music-style stuff) for live shows?
   My band uses pretty heavy distortion on most all of the vocals, and in our 
home studio we've had lots of problems with feedback.  Generally we just go 
with headphones when recording.
   But now we're going to start doing some live stuff, and I dread the thought
of what might happen when we turn on these mics.  We don't scream all the time
either; we need some decent gain sometimes... Does anybody have any tips to
give me?  I don't know what sort of sound people or amplification we'll be
dealing with yet, but maybe there's someone who knows about this area...

Thanks for your help,
christian E!
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Mic pre-amps
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center And Storm Door Company
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:12:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.005349.5291@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>
>I recommend that before you consider sinking money into a preamp, that you
>do some serious experimenting with stereo recording first.  Get comfortable
>with the gear you've already got (and you've got enough now to make some
>good recordings) before you add another component to the equation.

Sink $20 in a copy of Jung's Audio Op-Amp Cookbook.  With $5 worth of MC34082
op-amps and a few 1% resistors you can make yourself up a pretty impressive
(though admittedly not world-class) mike preamp.  Not to mention the learning
experience involved.
--scott
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:47:56 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr6.200016.11370@orlith.bates.edu> rmontgom@orlith.bates.edu 
(Robert Montgomery) writes:

>Howdy all,
>   I'm trying to figure a way to mic a drum set for output to a radio station
>which will then broadcast the event. However, we are extremely shorts of cash
>and mixer inputs. What I do have access to is a wide selection of (somewhat
>cheap) cardoid Mics. Also, we have access to a couple of 'piano mics.' Does
>anyone have any advice on how I can position these mics so as to use  minimum
>number?

Mic the  kick drum the snare drum and put up one overhead.  I don't
know what you mean by "piano mic" unless you speak of the Cducer
pickup or something like that.

>   Secondly, does a direct input do anything more than drop line level to mic
>level? They seem to me to be a waste of time for most uses they are put to.
>               Thanks alot,

If you are speaking of a direct box, yes it does a lot more.  It
converts the signal to a low inpedance balanced signal.  They are very
useful.

-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: FORESALE: Misc Stereo
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:42:14 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr6.203845.26783@e2big.mko.dec.com> glantz@tay1.dec.com writes:

>I don't know how others feel, but while I expect to see ads for *CONSUMER
>STEREO* equipment in rec.audio, I'd rather not see them in this newsgroup.

>Likewise, I'd prefer not to see discussions of green markers and "audiophile"
>speaker cable in here -- unless there are any pros who actually use such
>stuff in their work, and are interested in telling us how and why.

>Anyone else feel this way?

I would agree with this principal although since the forum isn't
moderated I don't know how we can expect the "rules" to be enforced.

I would be very disappionted to see wild ass flaming of someone who
did post "unnecessary" things........

I suggest that a direct Email to the person and kindly asking that
posts be restricted be the method of policing rather than the
rec.audio cooking of an "offender".  If the person gets enough Email I
am sure that the meggase will be recieved.

Anw seconds?


-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison)
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lessee ... I had it here a minute ago ...
Date:  6 Apr 1992 22:15 EST  

In article <1992Apr6.200016.11370@orlith.bates.edu>, rmontgom@orlith.bates.edu (Robert Montgomery) writes...
> 
>Howdy all,
>   I'm trying to figure a way to mic a drum set for output to a radio station
>which will then broadcast the event. However, we are extremely shorts of cash
>and mixer inputs. 

Wow, we need a *bit* more input here...
1) What kind of `cheap' mics do you have and how many ?

2) How many channels can you (or do youy *wish* to) dedicate to the kit ?

3) How many drums are in the kit ?

4) What kind of music are you going to be mixing ?

5) Can the kit be isolated in a room or partitioned off from the rest of 
   the instruments.

6) Will the feed be going to a front system as well as to a radio station ?

*Lots* of variables and, as a drummer *and* soundman, I find it hard to 
offer much help from what you've given here.  Feel free to e-mail me.


>   Secondly, does a direct input do anything more than drop line level to mic
>level? They seem to me to be a waste of time for most uses they are put to.

Excuse me ??? What do you mean by a `direct input'. Are you talking mic 
(xlr) vs. line (phono plug) or an auxilliary input without eq or WHAT ?!?!?!


-- Stephen (Confused in Cleveland)

(The only two valid e-mail addresses from now on are ...)
afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov,  afdenis@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov
.. boring .sig follows, press n to skip it.

		Love shares at least *one* common trait with the Great
		White Shark. When it *stops* moving forward, it dies.
From: kenyee@ksr.com (Ken Yee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: awesome Klipschorns and speaker lifespan
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:03:57 EDT
Distribution: usa

button@italy.alc.com (Russ Button) writes:
>If your basic criteria is high efficiency and high sound levels, then
>the K-horn is for you.  If you are concerned about voices and instruments
>sounding like they do live, then the K-horn is a technology that is
>30 years out of date.  
  Here's a thought...a live performance is part bodily sensations...the
  music waves running over your body add another dimension to the
  music.  Comments?  Or should I post this in rec.psychology? :-)

>For $2500, you can buy any number of truly excellent systems.  I'd look
>	SL600's		$700
>	SL600 stands	 150
>	sub-woofers	 400
>	crossover	 400
>	sub-woofer amp	 200
>	---------------------
>	total	       $1850
  Hmmm...I'll have to check out Celestion's...I might as well make sure
  I get my money's worth...

>This would be your expense assuming you already are using a separate
>pre-amp and power amp.  You did say you were an audiophile?!  :-)	
  I most certainly did not! :-)  How about audiophile in training.
  I'm using a pair of Bose 300's and an Onkyo 55W receiver from
  the poor student days.  I upgrading my speakers first...

>You did ask for opinions.  In audio, you can certainly find them.
  Much appreciated...thanks.

 ken
From: cox.s@applelink.apple.com (Steve Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Tascam MSR-16 16-Track Recorder
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:32:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple


Selling a Tascam MSR-16 1/2" recorder with very low hours and in mint
condition. Just don't use it enough to justify keeping it. Has dbx I noise 
reduction and will lock to SMPTE. Also has gapless/seamless punch in and sounds
great. I have a demo CD which I made from the multitrack masters on this machine.

New $7500

Asking $4700.

Would consider a trade for comparable pro audio equipment e.g. mics, Effects.
Would also consider a Waverunner Jet Ski.

email or call 408 265-9043 after 7:00 pm Pacific time.
From: muller@alliant.com (Jim Muller)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: SHURE MIKES
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:10:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: alliant.1992Apr16.151021.6620
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.

In <5591.1079215928@kcbbs.gen.nz> Mike_Diack@kcbbs.gen.nz (Mike Diack) writes:
>>Can anyone compare and contrast the SHURE SM57 to the SM58
>...They dont pretend to be flat response (both exhibit a peak around
>3 khz- i think this was touted as a "presence peak"- whatever that is.

Uhmm, it's closer to 8k-10k, I think.  And above about 12k, it falls off a
cliff, if I remember right.  A "presence peak" is just a higher response in
the upper frequency ranges to increase apparent clarity (unless someone has
a more specific definition).  Very few mics claim to have a flat frequency
response.  As a starting point, most directional mics exhibit a proximity
effect.  A presence peak is almost a necessity or else everything Ends Up
sOUndIng lIke thIs, wIth nO IntEllIgIbIlItY bEcAUse thE vOwEl sOUnds Are
EnhAnced bY thE lOw frEquEncIEs whIle thE cOnsOnAnts Are nOt.  wOOf.
-- 
Jim Muller
muller@alliant.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: mbl@media.mit.edu (Marc LoCascio)
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:40:24 GMT

In article <441@sgtech.UUCP>, jjr@sgtech.UUCP (John Radigan) writes:
> From article <1992Apr7.060616.5548@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, by payam@landau (Payam Mirrashidi):
> > In article <4233@gold.gvg.tek.com> chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen) writes:
> > 
> > A question along the same lines: How do you eq a kick so it sounds strong and
> > tight and not boomy...
> 
> ... I remove a whole lot of mid from around 200hz up to about
> 2-3k or so.  I also roll off above about 6k to reduce leakage.  I experiment
> with the EQ at about 100hz to get the thud and at about 4-5k to get the right
> click.  This seemed to work OK with an RE20 last time I used one.

good advice, but something that hasn't been mentioned up until now is the
sound of the bass drum itself.  i haven't had to suck low-mids out of a kick
drum signal in a long time, because i primarily record my drummer, who has a
great sounding 24" kick with minimal padding.  put a PL20 into it, maybe roll
off a bit below 100 Hz, maybe boost a bit around 2-4 KHz, and the sound is
there.  if you're mic'ing a bad sounding kick with a blanket inside of it,
then, yes, get rid of lots of signal in the 200 Hz - 1 KHz range (not to
mention the blanket).

Marc LoCascio	(mbl@media-lab.media.mit.edu)
From: caudle@spotted.owlnet.rice.edu (Chris Aaron Caudle)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: McIntosh solid state amps
Date: 16 Apr 1992 23:00:39 GMT
Organization: Rice University

How do the solid state amps by Mac (with output transformer)
sound?  Specifically, older models (about 10-15 yrs), and
how do they compare to the newer models by Mac, how do they
compare to a good solid state amp overall?

thanks,

Chris Caudle           
caudle@owlnet.rice.edu
From: gjw@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mr Garry J. Wardrope)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Mike connections
Keywords: Mike
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:27:39 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.



For a typical balanced (dynamic) mike ( > $150 ) what is the ground line
usually connected to?

Is it usually connected to a center tap of the cartridge or a matching
transformer.

Or is it simply connected to the case and therefore electrically isolated from
the two phase lines.

Or is it something completely different.


The original thought was in connection with phantom power and whither
connecting a mike (or other device) to a desk so equipped would 
cause damage or be detrimental to the use of a mike not designed to use
phantom power.  i.e. an ordinary dynamic mike.
If the ground line is electrically connected to the system in some way
presumably some current must flow through the transformer/cartridge and would at
the very least affect the sound quality.


	Thanks for any info
			Garry
-- 
Mail:	Garry Wardrope, Computing Science Dept.,  Tel: (041) 339 8855 x5322
	Glasgow Univ., 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK. 
ARPA:	gjw%dcs.glasgow.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk USENET:gjw@dcs.glasgow.uucp
JANET:	gjw@uk.ac.glasgow.dcs   useBANGnet: ...mcsun!ukc!dcs.glasgow.ac.uk!gjw
From: weems@cs.umass.edu (CHIP WEEMS)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Revox Parts Availability
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:11:00 GMT

for a Revox A77? I have a chance to pick one up cheap, as is, but it has
one dead meter and a slipping counter belt. Are parts obtainable, and
are they reasonable in cost (vs. inflated due to rarity).
Organization: University of Massachusetts CS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Also, I know they were available in a wide range of speeds (any adjacent
pair), so I'm curious as to whether they can be reconfigured easily
(i.e. without replacing the motors). I'd like to step the top speed
up from 7.5 to 15 ips.

Thanks,

Chip
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: How to mic drums.
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:08:29 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr7.060616.5548@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> payam@landau 
(Payam Mirrashidi) writes:

(drum mic'ing)

>A question along the same lines: How do you eq a kick so it sounds strong and
>tight and not boomy.  I usually mix off of a 26 channel Soundcraft 400, so I
>have a low, a high and two parametric mids available.  In addition, I am using
>a RE20 mic. 

The RE20  may not be the best choice for kick but I have heard a few
people liking it.  Try removing some 100-200 and adding some snap at
the high end, somewhere between 2 and 6K.  Listen for share bleed....

Also work with positioning of the mic.  There are wildly varying
opinions but I usually start at  a spot close to the where the beater
hits and just off to one side.  If the kick has an outside head on it
try directly in front and low or try mic'ing the batter side of the
head (it has a unique sound).

Also don't forget that what you hear, or don't hear, may not be the
choice of mic or it's EQ.

A better choice might be a Senn 421, AKG D12E (my favorite).

>I guess any hints for miking a snare with SM57 would be appreciated too!

I would position the mic close to the head (depends on the snare drum,
the music, the drummer and the phase of the moon :-)) I start at about
a 45 degree angle at about 2" and just off the rim.  My personal
preference for a snare sound is a fat-n-snappy,  but it depends on
the snare drum, the music, the drummer and the shoe size of the mix
engineer divided by the I.Q of the drummer :-).........

While I am intending to be funny,  and I don't know why, my point is
that you will have to experiment to get the sound you want.  Always
start with the EQ flat then wang on it.....

Good luck!
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.