From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Private space ventures
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:29:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <ewright.714087707@convex.convex.com>, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes...
>In <ZOWIE.92Aug16114108@daedalus.stanford.edu> zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest) writes:
> 
>>Truax is the fellow who built Evil Knievel's steam rocket to jump the Snake River
>>canyon.  
> 
>Not to mention the fellow who studied under Robert Goddard, designed the 
>US Navy's Polaris missile, and helped design the Atlas ICBM.

And started Project Private enterprise in 1980 which would have been the first
suborbital flight of a manned rocket by a private venture.  The astronaut was
a guy by the name of Fell Peters.  The plan fell through due to lack of cash
to finace the flight vehicle.  Mr. Truax did all of the ground testing.

> 
>>The idea was to have sea launch and recovery to make it cheap, and to adapt
>>existing parts rather than build custom ones to build the craft.   A few
>>years ago, the Air Force bought the prototype from him for a cool 3/4 of a 
>>million dollars -- enough to buy a house in Palo Alto!  

Mr. Truax's house was already owned by him in 1980 when I first met him. 
Address is 1240 Greenmeadow lane in Palo Alto. He started getting contracts
from the Navy in 1987 if I remember right.  The Navy of course is interested
in Mr. Truax's water launched rocket ideas which were proven way back in the
early sixties on the big dumb booster project when he was at aerojet.

>Uhm, not exactly.  It wasn't the Air Force, it was the Naval Research
>Laboratory, and Truax built the (subscale) prototype under contract
>for them.
> 

The subscale prototype was used for helicopter drop tests to see how much 
damage would occur in a typical splash down.  The last I heard (about two years
ago) the first tests were unsuccessful due to excessive damage to the rocket. 
The idea was complete reusablity with the recovery of the Allen's precious
RL-10's. Did not work so well.

>>Are there any other people around who've come as close to success (defined
>>as a private launch) as even Truax did?

Deke Slayton's Space Services Incorporated for one. He has been launching 
sounding rockets for 12 years and will launch his first orbital vehicle with
the launch of COMET I next march. 

Payload Systems Inc from up in the northeast run by Brian Lichetenburg is 
another company that is making it. 

Battelle Labs who flies many payloads with our Consortium is another one.

McDonnell Douglas here in Huntsville does microgravity payloads all the time.

Essex corp does mockups for most of the major Nasa programs is another success.

New Technology Incorporated here in Huntsville provides personnel to support the
Marshall spacelab missions is another private company.

Orbital Sciences is also a success at least for the time being.

Defense Systems is a maker of small satellites for both the military and
other buyers in the commercial market.

Starsys provides radiolocation services to a wide entirely commercial market
as well as emergency beacon location services for local, state and federal 
customers.

I can go on and on.

>Well, Gary Hudson's GCH, Inc. got as far as blowing up a Percheron
>rocket on the launch pad (much like NASA in the early 60's) and Pegasus
>has gotten as far as placing a few small payloads into orbit.
> 
> 
>>[It bugs me that there are people like H Ross Perot, who themselves
>>have enough cash to finance their own space programs, but that none, so 
>>far, has underwritten one.]

Ross is a computer geek. No one has approached him yet with a good enough
idea that I know of.


By the way message to Allen. Your infrastructre costs are about 2 billion over
what you project for a similar project in your HL Delta and Atlas.  Also have
you read abouty all of the troubles with the mere upgrade of the Titan IV
SRB's? That has cost 200 megabucks already.  What about the Titan pad upgrads
at LC 40. That alone was 400 million. Where do you get your low numbers for 
all of your pads and clean rooms and etc.....  Also your number for the
S V engines are 20 percent over what Rockwell has stated the cost would be.
(400 million vs your number of 500 million) How many other times have your 
numbers had this over statement for other projects?

I like HL Delta and and Atlas. HL Titan is way overpriced however, with Titan
IV launches already in the Shuttle ballpark per mission. I hope the other
"new and improved" ideas of yours are not similiarly fated to cost jump. Oh
by the way, it is unfortunate but true that Pegasus launches have went from
a six million dollar quote to ten million dollar quote. I love Pegasus and 
wish it the best but hey that is a 40% increase between vaporware and hardware.
Funny how that happens in this business.

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville
Newsgroups: sci.space