From: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Subject: Re: 'Tiel likes catfood?
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:46:35 GMT
Reply-To: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation, Herndon, VA

In article <17lurlINNmdc@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D 
Miller) writes:
> If I'm going to get quoted I guess I can quote back.  Some background--my 
vet
> is Dr. James Carpenter, head of the Exotics Dep't and Kansas State U. Vet
> School.  He is a world-famous expert on cranes (yes, I know, cranes aren't
> parrots, but he's got plenty of credentials on all manner of exotics, incl.
> parrots.)  If he gives me dog food (and they don't sell any foodstuffs at
> the vet school) I'm inclined to trust him.

If I take the time, I can quote at least 5 vets who are heads of psittacine 
research from UC Davis, to U of Florida who say that dog food is dangerous to 
birds.  Think about it logically for a minute.  
> 
> Second, very few pet birds get enough protein--there's not too much in most
> seed, ours won't touch beans or eggs or other meat recommended by the vet
> and BirdTalk experts.  As it happens I don't feed dog food--ours don't like
> it, and they eat Lafeber's pellets.  But bird pellets are expensive and
> dry dog food is cheaper--and it was never recommended as the sole diet.

Eggs and meat contain salmonella in levels that mammals can deal with 
(usually).  Birds have little resistance to this type of thing.  Protein 
levels over 16% are now considered bad for the kidneys of most psittacines.  
Dog food has considerably more protein than that.  Check out the work of Dr. 
Murphy in Clearwater Florida with dog food.  He had to stop his studies 
prematurely because of the dangerous increase in uric acid levels in his 
subject birds.
> 
> Third, _all_ brand-name pet foods are manufactured under the same quality
> constraints as human cereals--if you don't believe me go and visit a 
factory.
> Hill's isn't far from me in KS.  True, mammals keep E. coli in their guts
> and birds don't--but also true that E.coli in human food will make us sick--
> it's one of the bugs they treat our water to kill.  I doubt seriously that
> fresh-bought dog or cat food will have detectable levels of E.coli in it.

E coli in human food only makes humans sick if it is over a certain level.  
I'd be willing to bet that if you tested your own hands, you'd discover quite 
a bit of e coli.  Culture a bag of dog food if you don't believe me.  
Further, from what other pet food manufacturers have told me, the factories 
that produce dog food, including the brand name ones, are filthy.  Pet foods 
are not regulated by the government and do not need to meet any type of 
standards.  
> 
> Finally, we _don't_ know all the nutritional needs of birds.  LAfeber's have
> done extensive tests--on cockatiels.  My kids are lovebirds, no closer to
> cockatiels than humans are to lemurs--and no one's done extensive testing
> on other bird species' needs --YET.  Meantime it behooves us all to feed
> a diverse diet, and I'm _sure_ a few bites of dog or cat food every couple
> of days is not going to do any harm!

And Roudybush has done MORE extensive testing on cockatiels and flatly 
disapproves use of dog or cat food for them.  He further has cut the protein 
levels of his own pellets in response to his own research on the dangers of 
high protein levels.

I suggest you subscribe to the AAV magazine (Association of Avian 
Veterinarians).  I would also be willing to bet that your vet sells the kind 
of dog food he recommends to your birds.
>