HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Simple Question
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:18:00 GMT

cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan) writes:
> Can somebody enlighten me on this question:
> 
> If God is All Powerful and All Loving, why does He allow sufferings
> to exist?  Why did He create humankind with the propensity for
> Greed, Hatred and Delusions and then allow us to murder and harm
> each other?
> 

First off, the God described in the Bible is not "All Loving". That 
description doesn't even make sense -- for instance, how could God 
love both good and evil? The Bible is specific in stating that it's
God hates certain things.

For the last question, the Biblical answer seems to be that mankind's 
"propensity for evil" is a result of the fall. That propensity was 
not originally part of Adam's character. Now the tough part -- God 
certainly allowed it to happen, so why? The traditional answer is that
God intends to use it for His own honor and glory, in part by drawing
a people unto Himself from out of that condition.

Why suffering?  I can think of at least three reasons, and there are
more.  (1) Suffering builds character. [1st Peter 5:10, James 1:2-4]
(2) God sometimes uses suffering to bring about a greater good. [See
the story of Joseph, after his suffering he could say Genesis 50:20]
(3) Your suffering, in a sense, 'qualifies' you to minister to people 
who are hurting [2nd Corinthians 1:3,4]. 

---
Dave Weaver                   | "He is no fool who gives what
Motorola ASIC / Chandler, AZ  |  he cannot keep to gain what he
weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com    |  cannot lose." - Jim Elliot (1949)
From: rpitts@darth.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Research Institute (CRI)
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:50:01 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech CERL/EE, Atlanta, Ga

In article <Jan.24.23.46.54.1993.2998@athos.rutgers.edu> jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski) writes:
>Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only that word
>which is good for edification according to the need of the momement,
>that it give grace to all who hear.....(Eph. 4:29)

Some think that it is wrong to openly state that anothers teachings
are wrong, but the Apostle Paul often pointed out teachers of error
by name.  A good example of speaking out against error is here in
Galatians 2, where Paul rebukes Peter IN FRONT OF THEM ALL (v14).  There 
doesn't appear to be a side discussion, but out right correction.
The analogy is that if error is taught publically then the correction
can and should be in the same place.  Don't let error be uncorrected.

    Galatians 2:11-14 (NIV)   When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him 
    to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. {12} Before certain 
    men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they 
    arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles 
    because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision 
    group. {13} The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by 
    their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. {14} When I saw that 
    they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I SAID TO 
    PETER IN FRONT OF THEM ALL, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a 
    Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles 
    to follow Jewish customs? 

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu  |    Love and Worship God the Father and His Son, 
                      --|--            the Creator of the Earth. 
Pro-Life!          -|-  |  -|-  Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility! |   |   |   before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6
From: cms@dragon.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re:  Right to Wear Religious Articles in Private Companies/Schools
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:29:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited


 Hi, I have a question, and I hope this is the right newsgroup for it. 
Several years ago, when I worked for another company, I was asked by 
my immediate supervisor to remove my Rosary from around my neck.  When 
I asked him why, he told me that certain other employees in the 
company found the Rosary "offensive."  I was really surprised.  After 
thinking about it, I told him to put his request in writing, and to 
specify that I was being asked to remove a religious article from my 
person solely because other employees found it somehow "offensive."  
Then, I said to him, "Will you write a memo to all employees in this 
company telling them to remove all religious articles, including 
crucifixes, plain crosses, stars of David, etc.?"  I felt that the 
policy should at least be consistent and I wanted a policy statement.  
I continued to wear the Rosary around my neck (I wear it as a personal 
statement of faith in Jesus Christ, it is _not_ jewlery) and I never 
heard another word about it.

 My question is:  Should this matter ever come up again, what are my 
rights?  Can a company require a Catholic to remove what is generally 
regarded as a Catholic religious article, but decline to insist that 
Protestants and Jews remove similar articles, or was I right in 
insisting on a consistent policy as well as an official policy 
statement?  Can companies actually require all employees to remove all 
religious articles, including yarmulkes, for example?  Does this ever 
really come up or did my supervisor (who was instructed to tell me to 
remove the Rosary by _his_ boss) just make a dumb mistake?

 Thanks for any input.

Cindy Smith
cms@dragon.com

p.s.  I currently teach in a private, non-parochial school.  Many 
teachers wear plain crosses and I still wear my Rosary.  No one's ever 
said anything to me, I just want to know how to react if anyone ever 
does.
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Science and God
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:47:06 GMT

John Nielsen writes:

>Pratically everyone in Europe at one time believed the earth was flat,
>that does not make it flat. Christianity was a *very* powerful force
>in the middle ages, it is not surprising that people accepted it.

If the author intends this to imply that in the middle ages it was thought
that the earth was flat, he is totally wrong.  C.S. Lewis, who in this
matter IS an authority, being a medievalist, skewers this completey in
_Miracles_, simply by citing all the ancient writings (Ptolemy, most
prominently) which were believed by all educated people of the time.
Everybody knew the world was round and that the earth was basically
pointlike in comparison to the rest of the universe-- Ptolemy said so.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
From: conan@durban.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mary an Ethiopian?
Date: 21 Jan 93 08:53:20 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.

In article <Jan.20.00.03.01.1993.677@geneva.rutgers.edu> wm1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Karamo Motley) writes:

[I wrote:]

>>The Black Madonna is not black; that is, the woman represented is
>>not of African extraction.  Rather, the icon is heavily stained 
>>from years of smoke and incense burned before it.

>The Black Madonna is not white either.

At the risk of wandering off into some racial morass:  what was
she?  The icon, while stylized, does appear to be a caucasian
woman.

Yours in Christ,

David Cruz-Uribe, SFO
From: mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Meat and the Bible
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:57:12 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln

jlong@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu (John Long) writes:

>Can a Christian eat meat? (I mean *flesh*, baby, bloody, carnal, *flesh*)

My shallow take on this: Genesis starts out on what sounds like a vegetarian
basis.  After the Flood, Noah is told that just as man previously had all
the plants for food, he now has all the animals for food as well.

You can make of that what you will: that it means eating meat is expressly
endorsed by the O.T.; or conversely, that _ideally_, in Garden-of-Eden-
perfection, we would want to go veggie. I'll leave that to more interested
parties.

--
paul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... 
 .. . .  . . . university of nebraska - lincoln .  . . .. . .  .. . . . . . . .
 .     .    .  .   .     .   .  .    .   .  .   .    .   .  grace .   .    .  . 
   .         .       .      .        .        .      .        .   happens .
From: altheimm@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Noriega (was Re: Dodd and Gandi)
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:09:02 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <Jan.20.00.09.40.1993.818@geneva.rutgers.edu>
   gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) writes:
>In this month's Christianity Today there was a brief article on Manuel
>Noriega's conversion.  It seems that it is sincere.  I remember when I
>first heard about this, a year or two ago, I was hoping that it would
>be.
>
>I think in instances like this, we can only stand amazed at the way
>God can reach people we would never expect, detestable people, and
>how, as the bible says, there is more joy in heaven over one sinner
>who repents than over ninety and nine who need no repentance.
>
>-Fred

My only response to this has no basis in personal research, just obser-
vations and opinions, but I just wanted to add that before judging 
Noriega, it would do one well to understand that he, too, was a good
friend of the US like Sadaam Hussein. And I don't think we'll ever get
the real story of the relations between the US and Noriega/Hussein. I
for one believe that US interests before and after the breakoff in 
relations have a great deal to do with how we are lead to describe him
both from the White House and in the press.

It always strikes my somewhat like the constant shuffling of friends and
enemies like Eastasia and Eurasia (or whatever it was) in Orwell's 1984.

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Post)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Christian Research Institute (CRI)
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:34:36 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:

>CRI is comprised of a staff from
>various denominational backgrounds, but they are (I believe) mainly comprised
>of members from the charismatic background (Assemblies of God, Pentecostal...)
>I could be wrong about the exact composition.

I am in the Assemblies of God.  I have never heard of any such connection
with CRI.  It would also be difficult for me to imagine a "mostly
charasmatic" organization supporting John MacAurthur after the
publication of his book "Charasmatic Chaos".  Do you have any references
or other evidence?  This is not intended as a flame, it just would be
interesting to find out more about what makes CRI tick, that's all.

Grace & Peace,
Scott Hayes
scotth@cs.umr.edu
From: david-s@hsr.no (David A. Sjoen)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: On _losing_ life
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:18:11 GMT
Organization: Rogaland University Centre

In article <Jan.24.23.45.01.1993.2943@athos.rutgers.edu>, BOCHERC@hartwick.edu writes:
> Why could not "lose his life" mean giving up those things that the world
> acclaims--the desire for popularity, power over others, self-aggrand-
> izement, all those things that the world thinks that life is "really
> all about"?  For, as Jesus said, (Matt. 6:32): "...after all those
> things do the gentiles seek."  Look at Jimmy Carter--he has done more
> good since losing the life of a president than he may actually have
> done AS president (the latter being in the eyes of some beholders, any
> way).
> 
> My feeling is that we should remember the exact words of Jesus as given
> in the gospel according to Matthew (16:25):  "...will lose his life 
> for MY SAKE..."; then, while we are still alive, we may be useful to
> others.

Clearly, this is what is meant. But I would argue that this 'life' is just
as literal as your physical life.

I also think this is what is meant in passages like Luke 14:25-34.

It is losing your own life and living for Christ. This, I believe, is
also what is meant by 'abiding in Him', in John 15. It is to surrender
totally and   l i v e   in Him, with Him and for Him, acknowledging
the divine principle that to lose one's own is to win. Christ won
His victory by apparently losing everything. Philippians 2. This
is the foolishness of the word of the cross. 1 Cor 1:18.

May God help us all to live like this, not just talk about it.

:)avid

-- 
 __________________ ___________________________________________________
| David A. Sjoen   |"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they |
| Gulaksveien 4    | follow me; and I give them life eternal; and they |
| N-4017 STAVANGER | shall never perish, and no one shall seize them   |
| Norway           | out of my hand." John 10:27-29                    |
`------------------'---------------------------------------------------'
      E-MAIL: david-s@hsr.no  (Rogaland University Centre, Norway)
From: rpitts@darth.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: A beginner's question
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:18:26 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech CERL/EE, Atlanta, Ga

In article <Jan.22.03.47.52.1993.6062@athos.rutgers.edu> ross@cc.gatech.edu (Rosario DSouza, J) writes:
>Some people tell me that some parts of the Bible should be taken
>literally, and some parts should not. My question is: how does one
>discern which parts are to be taken literally and which should not?

This may sound like a relative simple answer, but the principle
I've heard and try to us is "if something can be taken literally,
then it should be."  

We should also understand that just because figurative language is 
used, it doesn't mean that some literal thing is not envisioned nor 
should we limit passages to only one form of interpretations (i.e., 
some passages could be literal and figurative.)  Also, some passages 
are understood to contain multiple meanings/applications (some to the 
time of the writer, some to the time of the one reading it, and possibly 
all could apply to Jesus.)  The Scripture, in Rev 19:10, tells us that 
the testimony of Jesus (his nature, life, death, resurrection, return, 
and reign) is the spirit (essence, central theme) of prophecy.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu  |    Love and Worship God the Father and His Son, 
                      --|--            the Creator of the Earth. 
Pro-Life!          -|-  |  -|-  Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility! |   |   |   before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Bye-bye Home Bible Studies
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:45:12 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.


       Cars in the street would be of equal concern if it was the Ladies'
Bridge Club, or the Football Couch Potato League.  Zoning laws were used
on the basis of religious content of the speech occuring within the home
-- not upon the cars parked by the guests.
From: eng10205@nusunix1.nus.sg (LING SIEW WEE)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Online bible
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:18:11 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

Bryan Whitsell (whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu) wrote:
: There is also one by using telnet. It is at 192.31.181.1
: Login as wais.
: It is also free.

I tried to login as wais and I was thrown out. Anyway, I tried
anonoymous ftp. But I cannot find anything there.

Wilfred Ling

[As far as I can tell -- and we've been looking for several years --
the only version that can be freely FTP'ed is the King James.
There are many copies online.  Two in the U.S. are sierra.stanford.edu,
in pub/documents, and mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu, in one of the etext
directories.  The latter is the repository for Project Gutenberg.

If you want to look up specific passages, try info.rutgers.edu.  Once
you get the first menu, type "go" and when prompted for a destination,
type "bible".  (Other destinations of possible interest are "koran"
and "mormon".)

--clh]
From: jfc@nic.cerf.net (Co Ho)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Missions
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:56:05 GMT
Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Group

Actually, my view on Missions is like this:

- While it's true that America needs Christ too, it's harder to reach-out
to Americans since there are too many obstacles too overcome, namely
materialism and skepticism.  People in the 3rd world coutry, they are more
"child-like" therefore, it's easier for them to discover faith!

- There are too many resources available for American to find God.  If one
really wants to know God, he can freely attending churches, read books
from Christian store, even taking Seminary classes.  In 3rd world country,
resources leading to God are not freely available.  You can ask almost any
people from the North part of my country about Jesus, and the answer would
be "Never heard of such name!"

- Roman 10:14 gave this argurment: "How can they believe in the one of
whom they have not heard?  And how can they hear without someone preaching
to them?  And how can they preach unless they are sent?"  As you see,
America at least _heard_ about the Gospel, what about other people that've
never heard of Jesus?

*** However, not all christians can be missionary - (I, myself for
example, was not called) - then what God 've entrusted us with is the
Mission right here in the local church, educate the next generation by
modeling a consistant walk with God, to care for the poor, minister to the
people around us at our work environment...  

    So, Mission is NOW - whereever you are, whenever you are, whatever you
have!  Agree?


-- 
Co Ho  - FJC Software Development | "..is there a vision that I can call my
321 E. Chapman Fullerton CA 92632 | own? Feel like I'm looking for a reason
(714) 992-7274 BBS:(714) 992-7754 | -roaming through the night-  to find my
Alt.Addr=xcho@ccvax.fullerton.edu | place in this world.."   MichaelW.Smith
From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Simple Question
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:55:42 GMT
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS

Can somebody enlighten me on this question:

If God is All Powerful and All Loving, why does He allow sufferings
to exist?  Why did He create humankind with the propensity for
Greed, Hatred and Delusions and then allow us to murder and harm
each other?

Thanks

C. M. Tan
From: watson@sce.carleton.ca (Stephen Watson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Handmaid (was "I feel threatened...")
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:25:38 GMT
Organization: Carleton University

10 years?  Do you have a source for that number?  In my case, it's
pretty close (stopped going to church at ~11.5 yrs, started going to
mainline church at ~13.5yrs.)  Yes, I'm another one who "fell out
the back door...".

Under The Mercy,
Steve
--
| Steve Watson a.k.a. watson@sce.carleton.ca === Carleton University, Ontario |
|  this->opinion = My.opinion;  assert (this->opinion != CarletonU.opinion);  |
"Somebody touched me / Making everything new / Burned through my life / Like a
 bolt from the blue / Somebody touched me / I know it was you" - Bruce Cockburn
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mary an Ethiopian?
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:46:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: athos.Jan.24.23.46.32.1993.2976
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.


 aslt@acad2.alaska.edu writes:
 > Sheer speculation starts here:  I don't see how Mary could have been
 > an Ethiopian given the Hebrew (and some would say God's) obsession
 > with racial purity.  The geneology almost precludes it, as well.
 > Not to mention that I imagine that Ethiopian Jews  were, ah, rare.

      No.  There was no such concept as "racial purity" given in the Jewish
Scriptures.  On the other hand "religious purity" was stressed over and
over again.  There were absolutely no problems with marriages between those
children of Abraham and those of other skin colors as long as they had
unity of religion in the worship of the L-RD G-d of Israel.  You will note
that even the Temple in Jerusalem had a Court of the Gentiles provided so
that the faithful non-Jews had a place to worship G-d.
     As to the Ethiopian Jews, actually they are fairly common.  If you
were watching the news several years back you would have seen Operation
Moses, in which thousands of Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel so
that they could escape persecution.  (Though several thousand Ethiopian
Messianic Jews were left behind due to specific beliefs that were not
approved of by the government of Israel.)
     Supposedly the Ethiopian Jewish community dates back to the time of
King Solomon and the Queen of Sheeba.  They married and had a son whose
name was Menelik.  When he moved back to Ethiopia many other Jews moved
along with him and set up a Jewish community there.
     There are some other additional details of interest.  According to the
Ethiopian Jewish legend (history?) Menelik was trained in the Temple and
was extremely devout to G-d.  He was greatly disturbed by the idolatry that
was creeping into Israel because of his father's many marriages with
idolatrous women.  When it came time for him to move back to Ethiopia a
replica of the Ark of the Covenant created that he could take back with
him.  But due to his concern over the idolatry in Israel of the time, the
night before he left he had some of the Levites who were going to Ethiopia
with him switch the real Ark with the replica.  So Ethiopia is thought by
many to still hold the real Ark of the Covenant.  There was even a recent
book on this subject though the author gives a much different account of
how the Ark got to Ethiopia.
     Another famous Ethiopian Jew that you are probably familiar with would
be the Ethiopian eunich whom Phillip met on the road.  You will recall that
this Ethiopian was studying the Scroll of Isaiah (presumably in Hebrew).
This even quite likely marks the start of the Messianic Jewish community in
Ethiopia.
     But as to claims that Miriam (Mary) was of Ethiopian descent.... I
would find the claims to be unlikely.  But I would certainly be interested
in seeing their genealogical evidence for their claims.
From: schuller@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Wayne Schuller)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: where is John M.? (he recently posted)
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:57:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

About a week ago an article was posted to this group about prayer.
I think the heading was 'Prayer and the reason we pray' or something
similiar.
The article was signed John M.
I mailed this person but got no reply, and i wish to mail him again but i
can find his address, could you please contact me John? I wish to use this
story in a newsletter i am collating, but I do not think it would be very
nice if i used it without his permission.
If anyone else has this guys address, can they mail it to me please?
thanks
schuller