HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Ankle bracelets
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:48:42
Organization: UNC Department of Computer Science
	<1993Jan7.142838.10267@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
	<1993Jan8.023103.29724@samba.oit.unc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grover.cs.unc.edu
In-reply-to: Bathsheba.Grossman@launchpad.unc.edu's message of Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:31:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.023103.29724@samba.oit.unc.edu> Bathsheba.Grossman@launchpad.unc.edu (Bathsheba Grossman) writes:

   It is my understanding, based on the wholly aesthetic observation of
   nude models and exotic dancers, that one doesn't get the actual Pearl
   on the Jade Step pierced, 

*sigh* A woman that knows chinese euphemisms -- 

   but rather the hood or upper juncture of
   the outer labia.  The Thing Itself has little vascular hydraulics
   which I don't think one would want to rupture, quite aside from the
   innervation.  (I don't offhand know how penis piercings are done;
   maybe they go between the hydraulics.)

I don't know how they're done either (unless only the goyim get penis
piercing) but to tell you the truth, I'm not feeling at *all*
experimental. 
--
		Charles R. Martin/(Charlie)/martinc@cs.unc.edu
     Dept. of Computer Science/CB #3175 UNC-CH/Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3175
	    3611 University Dr #13M/Durham, NC 27707/(919) 419 1754
     "Oh God, please help me be civil in tongue, pure in thought, and able
      to resist the temptation to laugh uncontrollably.  Amen." -- Rob T
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Catwoman! Any Comments?  (Re: Where did I meet my SO?)
Date: 10 Jan 93 07:18:33 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan10.005919.11262@wetware.com> drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
>Well she sent me email, wanting to meet me,
>becuase of my Basically Shy Quiet Naive Innocent Waifly Way
>that I posted to the net.
>
>Little did I know that all she Really Wanted to do 
>was Take Advantage of my Innocence and Youth.

...some of us are wondering if herstory == history on
this most important subject...

...so, darling Catwoman, tell all...

-jen

>ciao
>drieux
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Meeting women in clubs
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:46:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1993Jan4.223945.15194@dptg.att.com>, rjf@dptg.att.com (51351[efw]-Robert Feddeler(MT4799)T343) writes:
> 
> "So, how do you feel about necrophilia?"
> 
> 
> bob.			|  Overheard the morning after an orgy on Mt. Olympus:
> 			|  I'm Thor!
> 			|  You're thore?  I'm tho thore I can hardly pith!

Mt.Olympus?  MT. OLYMPUS??!??!

Thor is a norse/scandinavian/teutonic type god.  Mt. Olympus is in Greece.  
Any orgies that Thor attended would have been held in Asgard.

And don't give me any lame lines like you knew all along that Thor lived
in Asgard, he was only visiting Mt. Olympus for a superbowl party.  Yeah,
right.  What do they teach kids in schools these days?

Grump, grump, grump.

Dawn
"What if I had PMS all my life, and told you you looked just like Barney Fife,
What if I twisted it in like a knife, Until it made you cry? Until it made
you lie? Would you still love me?"
"What If..." by Bongwater
From: the lost cause
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Newspaper "personals"
Date: 7 Jan 1993 21:34:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jdavidso@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: jd-next.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <C0H28E.4rr@unix.portal.com> mzank@shell.portal.com (matthew c zank)  
writes:
> What we need is a good war to bring down the high men to women
> numbers, I think we are over due for a war, that is way there
> is more men then women, and why women are so picky.
> --
Gee, it is just so much fun to rebuild the ol' kill file after the system  
settings have to be rebuilt.

Matthew, get a life.
--
************************************************************************
 the Lost Cause                       jdavidso@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
(hardwaire guy extraordinaire)       MACTech,NeXTtech; NeXTmail accepted
                      "Everything is relative."
************************************************************************
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Subject: Re: The Classiest Pickup Lines
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:16:50 GMT
Keywords: go get bent..

In article <6JAN199313513483@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zau@utarlg.uta.edu (The Brothers Grimm (Wayne and Ez-E)) writes:
>
>How about this classic, "Would you like to dance?" and if/when the person
>says no reply "No, I said you look FAT IN THOSE PANTS!"...

I love it!!!  And I'm going to use it!!!!!!!
-- 
-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+
Nance Colucci                                      att!ihlpl!colucci
"It'll be better than before.  Yesterday's gone.  Yesterday's gone!"
-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: Dating, religion, hypocrisy
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 08:47:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: w

In article <1993Jan2.192217.991@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> mel@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Meloney D Cregor) writes:
>In article <+dtr4hq@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>>>Religion is a set of beliefs and if you truly believe, then you must
		     		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>abide by the sanctions of that belief system.  To not do so, is
>>>hypocrisy and I have a great deal less tolerance for this than I do
>>>for religious belief.  
>>Who sez?
>Whoa!
>Where ever did I say such a thing?

This seemed to me to imply that 'a belief in god' == 'a need for religion'. :)
I understand where you're coming from, mel. My brain is in the future, and
things archaic do carry a lot of negative influences.

>My original statement says "if you truly believe",  whatever those beliefs
>may be, if you have embraced them and adopted them and agree to conduct
>your life by them, to not do so, is hypocrisy.

Yeah, this I agree with- any idea that you claim to ahve embraced, then go
around doing something else is hypocritical. >Challenging< those beliefs,
though, isn't :)

r.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:03:36 EST
From: Psycho!! <HOLTONS@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: FLIRTING AS AN OLYMPIC DEMONSTRATION SPORT

Flirting is a lost art... requiring much skill and prowess.

I propose we make it an Olympic demonstration sport...

Imagine the results?  Team Canada v.s. Team Switzerland...  I'm getting sweaty
just at the thought of it...  Where do I sign up?

All in favour?
Xref: sparky soc.singles:35758 alt.abortion.inequity:6338
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Michael's story
Date: 8 Jan 1993 08:25:12 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

michael@neuron6.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Rivero) writes:

Michael,
You've mentiond your grief over your wife's abortion before.  
Your sad tale is testimony that men can and do grieve over the loss
of a foetus.

But I have a few questions for you.  You wrote:
>  I married a woman who explicitly promised a child. 2 weeks into the pregnancy
>she obtained an abortion. 

How can a woman "explicitly promise a child"?  What if she's infertile?
What if she miscarries?  Would you also blame her for that, with such 
vengance?

>  I lost the child I had married for.

Did you marry *just* for the child?  Then why did you bother to marry?
Whyd didn't you just pay some woman to bear a child for you?  Or even
better, find some way to give of yourself to an existing child ?  There 
are plenty of children you would crave and cherish the what you could 
give them through any number of programs (scouts, big brother, etc.)

-- 

                                                --  Michal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there's no reason!
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: The Classiest Pickup Lines
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:30:38 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
Keywords: go get bent..

One of my co-workers suggested an experiment once.  He wanted me to walk
up to 100 random men on the street and say "Excuse me, would you mind
if I bit your nipple?" while he walked up to 100 random women on the
street and tried the same line.  His hypothesis was that I would enthusiastic
replies 90%+ of the time while he would get hit a lot and probably arrested.
After brief discussion, we decided that neither one of us really wanted to
put it to practice.

(This is the same co-worker who originated the famous "I like to hit on 
pregnant women because if they're single they're desperate and even I
might get likely" line that I posted last time this thread came around.)

Dawn
"What if I had PMS all my life, and told you you looked just like Barney Fife,
What if I twisted it in like a knife, Until it made you cry? Until it made
you lie? Would you still love me?"
"What If..." by Bongwater
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: julie@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Julie Wright)
Subject: Re: Catwoman! Any Comments?  (Re: Where did I meet my SO?)
Organization: The Cultural Elite
	<1993Jan10.160111.13323@wetware.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:16:08 GMT

diana@wetware.com (CatWoman ) writes:

>jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:

>] drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
>] >Well she sent me email, wanting to meet me,
>] >becuase of my Basically Shy Quiet Naive Innocent Waifly Way
>] >that I posted to the net.

>] ...some of us are wondering if herstory == history on
>] this most important subject...

>Actually, it started out a bit earlier than
>he says there - due to a confused person in
>alt.personals (a third party).  Since drieux
>was the only one who posted a reasonable
>non-flame (!!) to this person, when he couldn't
>get e-mail to me, he sent it to drieux.  

>drieux and I started corresponding in e-mail, and
>then on the phone - and THEN I started asking if
>he would show up at <someplace>. 

[...]

>The rest, as they say, is history!

My God!  It's "Speak for yourself, John" in modern life!  Some people
read those stories about early American history too many times...

Don't drieux and Catwoman kind of remind you of colonial settlers?

Was the confused third party standish@something.or.other.edu, I wonder?

---Julie
-- 
| "Come here, I want to show you something," he murmured...  "This is     |
| our baby; I had it yesterday," he said.  "My," I said hoarsely, "you're |
| full of surprises," and fell forward into his arms, arms, arms.         |
|             --- from "Sylvia", by Nicole Hollander                      |
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns)
Subject: Re: Where did you meet your SO?
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:53:32 GMT

Okay Okay, I met him in a bar.  Yes, really.  Nine years
ago.  We've now been married over seven years.

					Cathy
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Subject: Re: What's the silliest thing hormones made you do?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:41:58 GMT

In article <Jan11.220349.50057@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cs151kx@lamar.ColoState.EDU () writes:
>>
>
>	
>	By this time myself, as well as some others in the car felt the
>	urge to urinate so i pulled into an, already harvested mind you,
>	corn field along the highway.  I drove for about an acre when i came to a
>	a fence along the highway.  It was about 2 am so we all got out to urin-
>	ate and i grabbed two pair of wire cutters out or my tool box and 
>	well, anyway, we got on the highway and crossed the median and got 
>	home.  
>	
>	Pretty stupid, huh?
>	
>	I have many others look forward to my postings
>	
>	Sincerely lates
>	

My god. You really live life on the edge dontchu.
 
           Wow.
 
================================================================================
 Steatopygias's 'R' Us.          doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
 Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more.
================================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: Where did you meet your SO?
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 02:53:00 GMT

In article 1if522INN202@rs6000.bham.ac.uk, pickerig@eee.bham.ac.uk (Guy Pickering) writes:
>I started working in a bar. One day I saw the most beautiful girl in the
>world come in. I smiled at her and never saw her again...until she turned
>up to work with me about a month later - pure fluke. It's been 3 weeks
>now, and wow!

Way to go, Guy!
Seesters?

dreas

Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: marcia@netcom.com (Marcia)
Subject: Re: How can people do that?!!
Organization: The Dolphin Conspiracy, Phase II
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:30:17 GMT

In article <C0IFxu.8Cq@news.udel.edu> helie@bach.udel.edu (Ray Helie) writes:
>Any comments, experiences or opinions that
>anyone cares to share?  Why, why, /why/ do people do that?!!  And
>for that matter, /how/ can they live with themselves?!!  I'd 
>/really/ like to know!

Perhaps they have negotiated an open relationship.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcia Bednarcyk                                  ADDRESSES: marcia@netcom.com
"Sweaty Snugglebunnies."                                     mlb@cisco.com
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow)
Subject: Re: Seeking female companion
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:06:33 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1993Jan9.121312.8194@fuug.fi> an3936@anon.penet.fi (Silly Question) writes:

>And why shouldn't people be able to post anonymously?

I don't have a problem with anonymous postings per se, but soc.singles
is for active, open discussion of issues related to singles and being
single.  Personal ads are not welcome both because they don't fit and
because there is a much better place to post them, alt.personals*.  A
person wanting to discuss relevant issues anonymously would not be
unwelcome, at least to me.

Rob T
--
Rob Thurlow, thurlow@convex.com
"Sometimes it feels like the sun just comes up out of habit,
 And goes down as quick as it can,
 These days, you just have to grab it as it goes by."
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: larry@b8.b8.ingr.com (Larry Billings)
Subject: Re: Breaking up is hard to do....
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:31:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.054337.22351@netcom.com>, rohwerwd@netcom.com (W. David Rohwer) writes:
> I have not spoken to her
> or seen her since.  I did hear, without my asking, from a friend that
> she moved out of the area.
> 
> -- 
>  /   // Mr. Tickle Monster   // Amiga ++---------------------------------+

Gee, that is pretty nasty.  The women I date usually just go back to their
ex-boyfriend/husband, but moving out of the area?  You must be worse at
dating than I am.
-- 
Larry

             This .sig file has been purposely left blank.
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Being ProAirBorne....
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:18:11 GMT

In article 93Jan11100116@hatteras.cs.unc.edu, martinc@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.054127.28923@nwnexus.WA.COM> pyotr@halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe) writes:
>
>   >   Real Men are not afraid to Go with Cloth wings.....
>
>   The real problem is that kids these days want aircraft 
>   with enclosed cockpits.
>
>   Heck, they even want them with them newfangled engines on 'em.
>
>Damn right.  I like airplanes you can do touch-and-go landings in.
>
>(I find something suspicious in the fact that this tadpole has the same
>surname as the Drieux....)

Bradders?

dreas

Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: Meeting guys
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 03:48:24 GMT

In article 16747@netcom.com, aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.080853.6159@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>>
>>I have a big, black limo just waiting to pick YOU up at the Victoria BC
>>Airport. Temptress, just tell me when you're arriving and we'll do HighTea at 
>>the Empress Hotel, Wot.
>
>9.0

Ah! This is indeed an honor.
What we need now is Mister Sensitivity to do Chauffeur duty!

dreas

Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine)
Subject: Re: Meeting guys
Organization: Don't blame me, I voted for Bill 'n' Opus
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:37:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.223953.29153@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels) writes:
>
>It even works the other way around.  My first "date" with my current SO
>was a flight around the area she grew up in.  (Hi Cathy!)
>And she _claimed_ the pictures she took were destroyed by her friend's
>child (playing with the film roll), so we just _had_ to do it again.
>[ Of course, that next time, the shutter on her camera was "conveniently"
>broken ... ]

Haven't you taken her on a third trip yet?!?!
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Virtual anniversary: 7 days ago
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Where did you meet your SO?
Originator: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: in your face!
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 21:39:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.213306.23501@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:
>Well to long story a short make, he asked me to lunch that day and we got
>a hot dog and then the next day he asked me again and the next day and the
>next day and to tell you the truth, he was nice but I wasn't that interested
>so I kept making excuses and then we discovered that we had just both gotten
>over bad relationships and had lots in common and then discovered we had
>**LOTS** in common and well if he hadn't persisted like he did (he did
>everything I advise people against doing, but you gotta realize that
>me falling in love with him was a miracle and those don't happen all
>the time) things would never have happened like they did and I'm just
>glad that he DID persist because yes indeed, the day of that first
>photo session changed my life forever.

Maybe more "miracles" would happen if people thought it was ok to take
a chance, instead of thinking they'd be rebuffed for just trying to
get to know someone.
Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.romance
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Re: Where did I meet my SO? 
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 11:58:46 GMT

bacon@mtu.edu (Jeff Bacon) writes:

] In article <1993Jan10.005919.11262@wetware.com> drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
] >Ok, So Thrumbling the Ball Forward.
] >
] >Well she sent me email, wanting to meet me,
] >becuase of my Basically Shy Quiet Naive Innocent Waifly Way
] >that I posted to the net.
] 
] *LAUGH*
 
do I detect a Lack of Sensitivity to my Cultural heritage?

he said shyly and demuirly.

] >Little did I know that all she Really Wanted to do 
] >was Take Advantage of my Innocence and Youth.
] 
] are you sure it didn't go the other way? :)


Minor Technical Note: It is Historically nonPlausible
for a problem Younger man to take advantage of a
Problem Older Woman's "youth and innocence" for 
reasons that should be intuitively obvious!!!!!

ciao
drieux

ps: what are they teaching the youth these days....



-- 
MajorModernDayProblems: 
Just because you are a homicidal maniac
doesn't mean you don't have a sense of humor.
		- Barry Sadler
From: sethb@panix.com (Seth Breidbart)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:30:53 GMT
Organization: Society for the Promulgation of Cruelty to the Clueless

In article <ewright.726256682@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
>In <1993Jan5.001418.4956@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
>
>>Actually, all I've claimed is that there are many men and women with an
>>interest in science and other intellectual pursuits, 
>
>No, that is not all you've claimed.  You also claimed that there 
>are few men and women interested in exercise, fitness, and sports
>-- you have a hard time just finding anyone, male or female, to 
>work out with at the gym.
>
>If there are few people interested in sports, and many interested
>in science, there must be more interested in science than in sports.
>So, where are they?

If I'm not interested in them, some number seems like a lot.  If I'm
looking for them, twice that number seems like few.  I can believe
Trygve's claim that it's hard to find exercise partners, because he's
looked.

>>SF cons, at least around here, usually include at least a few scientific
>>talks or panel discussions; the ones I've been to have been
>>well-attended and had a reasonable gender balance.
>
>If that's true, Denver's probably the only place in the United States
>where it is.  I have yet to attend an SF conference that was less than
>75% (and usually closer to 90%) male.

I haven't attended quite as many cons as Ben Yalow, but in the 100+
that I've been to, I'd guess that the typical percentage is around
40-50% female.

>Note, also, that there are perhaps two dozen fulltime science-fiction
>writers in the entire United States.

Funny, I thought there were more.  Maybe that's because I know more
than that many.

Seth
From: ivan@spider.co.uk (Ivan Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: M: F birth ratio (Was Re: Newspaper "personals")
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:38:45 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, SCOTLAND

In article <1ih8b8INN5gg@mirror.digex.com> huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston) writes:
>It wouldn't work.  Here in the U.S. there are 102 male newborns for every
>100 female newborns, but higher mortality among the males leads to a 1:1
>ratio at the age of sexual maturity.  However, after World War II the birth
>ratio climbed to 103:100 briefly.

I thought that there are slightly more women born than men - male births are
slightly more likely to miscarry. Anyone have any references?

Ivan
-- 
Ivan Hans Mark Reid                      Management Information Systems Analyst
"Information is Power ..."                                   Spider Systems Ltd
vox: (+44 31) 554 9424                                 Spider Park, Stanwell St
fax: (+44 31) 554 0649                              Edinburgh EH6 5NG, SCOTLAND
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 01:35:44 GMT

Oy Veh to this thread, guys!

dreas

Newsgroups: soc.singles,alt.sex,alt.romance,talk.religion.misc