HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cush@uh.msc.edu (R. Cushing Hamlen)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Dragging up More Dregs.Culturing
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:21:13 GMT
Reply-To: cush@msc.edu
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center

In article <1992Aug17.110338.58206@cc.usu.edu>, slk6p@cc.usu.edu writes:
....Ok,  I'll agree that culturing from dregs may have its appeal
....(ease and laziness are what I see coming forth- no flames tho!)
....AND that yeast DO create a hostile environment,  pH changes
....and the alcohol level do INHIBIT bacteria.  
....BUT my point is that there may be bacteria/other fungi present
....still which when placed in a fresh wort have a chance to take root.
....The environment created by yeast will INHIBIT bacteria, but not
....necessarily KILL them.  They could still be there, just dormant.
....
....By reculturing you are increasing the chances that these bugs will
....cause a problem.  Personally I choose not to risk it.  Others work
....and have worked with dregs to their satisfaction.
....
....I worry less by starting several cultures from my 1st generation
....liquid yeast and having these available for subsequent batches. 
....It is easy enuf to do, and required little investment.  I haven't 
....seen any visible contaminants on my plates or in tubes yet.
....And I figure, and long as I don't reculture too many times from
....the 1st generation I shouldn't have to worry about mutants popping up.
....
....	Guess whatever works for you, and minimizes your worry
....while maximizing your good beer supply-- go for it.

Well stated...I agree with everything you say.  It makes me think that we
may be missing a point here:  often we defend practices by saying "the micros
do it...".  In this case, we often say " the micro breweries re-use their
yeast...so why don't we?"  Case in point: I was at Summit Brewery two weeks
ago where they described their method for re-using yeast.  Now, they only
keep a culture going for a month or so before they start up a new culture from
a master culture in the laboratory.  Culturing up enough yeast to pitch
to the big fermenters takes time and money...which in business are not to be
wasted.  the large volume of yeast left after fermentation also allows them to select
layers from the trub which are most likely to be viable yeast.

As homebrewers we ARE concerned about cost, but it does not take us as long to
culture (from a plate) enough yeast to pitch to 5 gallons of wort, and doing as
you suggest above drastically reduces the cost of the yeast per brew.  I would lay odds
that if the micros could use 'new' yeast in each batch for little cost, they would do
so.  

Perhaps the difference is that it is as 'easy' for us to use a fresh culture in each 
batch as it is for the larger scale brewers to re-use the yeast (within limits)...but that
it is a PAIN for them to use a fresh culture to pitch each batch?

usual disclaimers

cush@msc.edu
From: abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: hi-tech aeration
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:23:06 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering Labs

In article <1992Aug20.152409.23572@news.nd.edu> ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
>In article <22944@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) writes:
>>
>>I'm planning to make a wort aerator by attachching an in-line bacteria
>>grade air filter to an acquarium pump outlet.  my question is,
>>when should i begin and end my aeration?

>One thing about aquarium equipment is the wooden gas sparge thingies.
>These really disperse air brilliantly, but hoe can they be sterilized?
>They usually have soft plastic parts so heat is out of the question.
>And I doubt if Cl could soak into all crevises, or back out again.

I plan to use a "bubbler stone".  All of these gas diffusion devices
will be nearly impossible to sterilize effectively by chemicals.
However, I think a boil should do the trick.  If you do not want
to run a seperate sanitization boil on hte stove, i suppose
you could just throw the bubbler stone into the wort, no?



--
Aaron Birenboim                                |I am just too tired to think
abirenbo%rigel.cel.scg.hac.com@hac2arpa.hac.com|of a good quote.
abirenbo@isis.cs.du.edu                        |    - ChickenHead
w (303) 344-6486                               |
From: bfbrown@athena.mit.edu (Brian F. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: PLASTIC (I know, yuck...)
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:50:36 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I will accept flames bravely, but I really want to know what is so bad about
using plastic carboys for fermentation and exactly how bad it is; i.e. if I want
to brew a keg's worth for a bunch of (mostly) unappreciative fraternity-party-
going drunkards, will it still be a ton better than the overpriced kegs of
bud and bud light we usually get, or will whatever the plastic does ruin the batch
and make it taste worse (I will be brewing a light lager w/high sugar and little
hops).

Thanks, Mail or Post, I can take it.

-BB
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: binkley@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Jon Binkley)
Subject: Re: Salvator (pronunciation)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:25:44 GMT

dprcta@inetg1.ARCO.COM (Craig Artley) writes:

>Seeing this list makes me think that I've been pronouncing Salvator
>incorrectly.  I've been rhyming it with El Salvador, the country.
>Apparently it should rhyme with the other beers in this list.

The Germans I've known pronounce it "sal VAH tor"; emphasis on
the second sylable, "ah" sound rather than "ay".  For that matter
they pronounce Paulaner as "po LAHN er", rather than "PAUL an er",
like most Americans do.

Jon

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jim@thor.albany.edu (SCHLEMMER JAMES A)
Subject: Dry Hopping & aeration (was Re: aeration - when?)
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:22:31 GMT

Speaking of aeration, I was racking a batch the other night and ran into
a situation that I've seen before.  The beer was dry hopped with plugged 
leaf hops.  As the leaves began to congragate about the inlet tube, I
noticed that the beer on the racking bucket end of the hose began to 
bubble.  I got a little nervous since I thought that what I was seeing
was oxidation of my precious beer.  I was in a bind though because there
was still ~1 gallon of good beer in the carboy.  

Thinking about it afterwards, I concluded that the bubbles must be CO2 
liberated by the turbulence of the beer passing through the clog of hops 
leaves.  What I'm wondering now is whether this consitutes or can lead to
oxidation.  Any opinions/citations?  

Jim

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ted@telematics.com (Ted Goldblatt)
Subject: UV a problem while brewing?
Organization: Telematics Intl., Inc.; Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:17:49 GMT

I am a relative newbie (I'm getting ready to start my fourth batch :-)).
I have progressed from pre-hopped extract and sugar to this batch, which
will be all malt (still extract :-(), with boiling and finishing hops,
and using a wort chiller (just built, not yet tested!).  Since even
my earlier beers turned out well, this one should be great!

Unfortunately, here in Florida we don't have basements, and the
bedroom that I had been using for fermenting in is now occupied (the
perils of parenthood).  I had planned to use the garage instead, with
a capillary cooler (water filled washtub, ice, wet towel, and
electric fan :-)) to keep the temp in line (I'm making an IPA, so I
assume that a temp of 70 deg F would be OK).  However, it occurred to
me that there is a relatively substantial amount of daylight that
gets into the garage (unshaded window, occasionally open garage
door).  Should I worry (I know, don't worry) about this, or does
mercaptan get broken down during fermentation (implying I wouldn't
have to worry until fermentation finished)?  If it _is_ a problem,
how much (or little) light do I need to worry about?  

Comments invited (hopefully quickly, since I'd like to brew
this weekend :-))

ted

-- 
Ted Goldblatt    ted@telematics.com     (305) 351-4367
    Telematics Intl., Inc.   Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer
From: kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Re: r.c.b.CLASSIFIED SECTION
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:28:25 GMT

I think Jack's idea is sound, and fair.  And since he's willing to do all the
work, even more so...
-- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University.  kswanson@nwu.edu
From: redfreak@softcopy.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Lobonc)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Awful beer, bottles
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:17:05 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Last night I opened a bottle of Paulner Salvator. This is the first beer
(aside from cheapo domestics) that I have had to toss before I finished
in several years. (I tossed Guiness and Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout a few
years ago, before I started brewing). What kind of beer is this?
It had little carbonation, a nice deep red color, and seemed to be very
sweet. Hops? It just had this terrible flavor, and I don't think that
was any kind of spoilage.  Kind of reminded me of a Scotch Ale, but I
can enjoy one of those.

On the subject of bottles:
If you find a nice employee at the liquor store, they will pick out
clean cases of bottles for you in the desired brand (easy label removal).
Sometimes they won't. I have had bottles covered with nice black squishy
mold on the bottom, and I just clean them using a shotgun cleaning rod
with a paper towel in the patch tip. After a good soak in a sanitizing
soln., a spray out with a bottle washer, and a trip through the dishwasher,
they are ready to go.  I have never had any problems.  My favorite bottles
are those that someone has "dipped" in. Nothing more attractive than a
bottle full of spit and chew!  (I do throw these out).

My friend had his wife print some labels on some adhesive backed label
paper with a laser printer.  These came off real nice if you ran cold
water on the bottle while peeling slowly.  We never had any of these
on for over 4 months, so I don't know if they get harder to remove
with time.

Tom
From: kbrennan@girtab.usc.edu (Kirk Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Exploding carboys ?????
Date: 14 Aug 1992 17:38:28 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug13.201852.28800@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> bj@perfmap.austin.ibm.com writes:
>I just received a porter kit from 'Great Fermentations', and the 
>instructions says NOT to single-stage ferment in a glass carboy,
>and they know of more than 10 exploding glass carboys.
>I've read Papazian, and, there is a picture of a glass carboy with
>a hose for the foam, so what's the deal ????

I skipped the blowhose option on my first single-stage glass batch.  Oops.

I came home one afternoon to find that my fermentation lock/rubber stopper
had blown off the top of the carboy.  Brown goop all over the walls.  I guess
I didn't properly strain the hop pellets, and the fermenation lock clogged up.

I panicked (first mistake- remember..relax).  My beer was exposed for the 
better part of a full day, I just -knew- that it was spoiled (again, ..don't
worry).  I washed off the stopper, re-sterilized the fermentation lock, wiped
the mouth of the bottle clear, and plugged her back up again.  

What emerged was the smoothest, creamiest brown ale I've ever tasted.  Still
can't duplicate the dern stuff.

I now do two-stage, from a six gallon bucket to a five gallon carboy.  I
figure the blow-hose will lose too much beer (Papazian says a quart!).  

Kirk out
From: comfrank@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Frank Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: priming Cornelius kegs
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

So what's the deal on natural carbonation of Cornelius kegs.  Every-
thing I've read says to use about 1/3 c. corn sugar to prime rather
than the 3/4 c. normally used (for a five-gallon batch).  Why?  I
figure keg or bottle, five gallons of beer is five gallons of beer.
Ok, I know you lay about 5-6 psi on it to seal the seals and for 
dispensing, but that can't make that much of a difference, can it?  
Anyway, all of my books use the 1/3 c. figure, but no one explains
it.  So, I turn to the net...
--frank
From: mcnally@wsl.dec.com (Mike McNally)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Abita! Abita!
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:56:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Palo Alto

eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
>I can detect a distinct taste in all of Abita's beer.  Since I drink my
>own beer much more often then Abita, I haven't figured out what the
>taste is.

To me, it tastes like lactic acid.  I was truly unimpressed with the
Abita beers I tried last time I was in LA.




--
==============y=o=u='=r=e===a=l=l===s=t=e=a=m=e=d===u=p===j=o=e================
   Mike +   Software +   Digital Equipment +   Western Software +      mcnally@
McNally +    Laborer +         Corporation +         Laboratory +   wsl.dec.com
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gus@clinicom.com (Chris Gustafson)
Subject: Re: Low O.G. - what's a brewmeister to do?
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:53:45 GMT
Organization: CliniCom Incorporated, Boulder, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mcnally@wsl.dec.com (Mike McNally) writes:
: mal@genrad.com (Mike A. Long) writes:
: >OK, I'll admit it.   Whenever I brew, I follow the recipe to the letter.
: >But when I take my S.G. for the original gravity, I usually get a VERY
: >low reading.
: ...
: >To give you an indication, my brew's recipe called for an SG of 1.042, and
: >I am reading 1.020...
: 
:  I have found that if you add your boiled wort to a fermentor and then top
:  it off with water you can get a very low O.G. reading if you don't 
:  mix it all up before actually measuring it. 

	Chris Gustafson
From: chris@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov (Chris Shenton)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: baltimore brewing
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:36:10 GMT
Organization: none

In article <1992Aug11.171106.14035@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dab@blitzen.uucp (25853-ballard) writes:

   has anyone been to the baltimore brewery?  i'll be heading down
   there this weekend and would like to check it out.  jackson gives
   it good ratings and says it's located in the refurbished part of
   town, which i take to mean the inner harbor or fells point.

   can someone tell me exactly where it is?


Albermarl Street and Pratt Street. Just past the Inner Harbor
(Aquarium, et al) across from Little Italy; you'll see it on the left
as you drive down Pratt.

The beer is excellent: Helles, Dunkel, Maerzen (I think), and now I
understand they have a Weizen *on*tap*.

Highly recommended. Pretty good food, too, and a pleasant atmosphere.

PS: It's on the boarderline of a sketchy area, so don't leave anything
tempting in your car.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: r.c.b.CLASSIFIED SECTION
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:31:24 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <856FPB2w165w@hophead> zen%hophead@canrem.com (Nick Zentena) writes:
>arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>
>>    
>>  I would put no restriction on whether it is commercial, 
>>  private or third party as long as the above limitations are 
>>  complied with.
>>  
>>  I do not believe this would violate net.etiquette nor do I 
>>  think any vote or consensus is required because I have to do 
>>  all the work.
>
>        I don't think commerical adverts should be allowed.
>        Outside of that I don't see any real problems.
>        Nick

Assuming that they met the criteria of 5 lines and 30 frequency, I would be
curious to know you feel that way.

The objective is to bring brewers and stuff together.  Who care what the
source is.

I could suggest two possiblities.

All personal and used or noncommercial would be listed first so that if 
the commercial stuff bothers some, they can do N when it comes.

Second I would like to suggest even demand that any commercial offer include
a special deal to netfolk.  A discount, free gift, waiver of shipping charges orssome such offer to justify the "free" ad.   Furhtermore, they must be from
people with direct access to the net and not from third parties.

Finally, unless I get some ads, it will all be academic anyway.

SEND ME SOMETHING.  We already missed the deadline for this weekend.

js
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: srussell@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (Stephen Russell,147 Bard,54648,)
Subject: Re: dry yeasts question
Originator: srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:45:36 GMT

From article <BsuDK1.ArE@news.dtc.hp.com>, by peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete):

> My question relates to final sugar levels in a fermented brew.  Is there a
> difference in the amount of dryness in the final product with different
> yeasts?  If so, what yeasts give the driest brew?

Hmmm...when I first saw the topic, I assumed that you were referring to
'dried yeast', meaning the dehydrated stuff that comes in those small 
foil/paper packs.  As opposed to 'liquid yeast', which is a liquid solution 
of single- or double-strain yeast cells and nutrients.

I won't go into the advantages/disadvantages of either type of yeast aside 
from the occasional subliminal message.  However, in order USE LIQUID YEAST
to answer your question, I have to mention the distinction.

The physical property of the yeast that is important is known as 
'attenuation'.  The more attenuative the yeast, the more of the available
sugars it will ferment, and the drier the final product.  A beer that starts
at a gravity of 1.045 and ends at 1.015 will have an 'apparent attenuation'
of (45 - 15)/45 = .667 or 66.7%.  Good yeast producers will generally give
the 'apparent attenuation' power of their yeast.  This will usually be a
range, such as 69-75%.  The reason for the range is that not all 1.045 worts
are created equal; some have much higher dextrin-to-maltose ratios, i.e.,
the ratio of unfermentable sugar to easily fermentable sugar.  These worts
will finish 'higher' or 'sweeter' than high maltose worts.

There are also in-between sugars that some yeasts ferment and others don't.
These are the 3 and 4 glucose unit sugars, maltotriose and maltotetraose.
"Attenuative" yeasts will ferment maltotriose readily, "superattenuative"
yeasts take out the maltotetraose as well.  My source for the lingo and info
here is Dave Miller's _Complete_Handbook_of_Home_Brewing_.

Unfortunately, that's not all there is to it.  Your handling of the yeast
matters as well.  If you 'pitch' (the term for adding yeast to wort) not
enough yeast, or do not provide enough oxygen initially for the yeast to
easily reproduce, it will (a) tend to take longer to get started fermenting,
and (b) tend to 'poop out' (sorry for the technical terms here) early and
result in a sweeter beer.  Temperature matters as well, but I don't really
have the knowledge to tell you exactly how.

I know from the Wyeast literature that their yeasts tend to be in the 71-75%
attenuation range except for a few meant for sweeter, fuller beers, which
are in the range 67-71%.  Or thereabouts.

Lots of luck,

STEVE
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: labels...
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:30:01 GMT


This was a trick I picked up from the HBD a looong time ago.

Use milk for sticking homebrew labels to bottles.  Soak your
home-designer label (no stickum on the back, please.  Then
you'll have problems) in some milk, then slap it on the bottle.
Pat it dry with a towl or sponge.
I seem to remember that the milk proteins act as water-soluble
glue.  

Taking them off is easier.  Soak the bottle for about 30 secs.
The labels float right off.  Oh yeah, and it's environmentally
friendly too......

-A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown
afd@hera.cc.bellcore.com
From: hasn@midway.uchicago.edu (Sheheryar Hasnain)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Brewing directly from grains
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:47:53 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

After having read the first few chapters of Papazians book, I am leaning 
towards brewing directly from malted grains rather than from kits.  However
the directions Papazian gives for this are more advanced and he assumes
that one has already brewed a couple of batches from kits.  I am aware that
it is riskier and requires more work.  On the other hand it is cheaper (prime
consideration!).  How does brewing directly from grains
 work (papazian got a bit complex for my
understanding)?  Is it really all that risky?  Step by step instructions before
the fermenting stage would be helpful and appreciated  (its all the same 
during and after the ferment stage right?).  How much cheaper is it?  How much
more work is it?  Does the beer taste as good without the kit?  Are temperature
concerns greater when brewing directly from grains?
I know this is a lot but any help, including people advising me to stick to 
the kits, will be appreciated.
Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: When do you rack from primary to secondary?
Keywords: Monkey donkey turkey
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean  VA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:19:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.221356.16396@pony.Ingres.COM>
 reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux) writes:

>I was just curious as to when people generally racked from the primary
>to the secondary fermenter... why do you  do it when  you do it?  I've
>heard several different opinions on the subject.

OK, I wait until the krauesen settles, which takes about two or three days, 
usually.  Then I transfer as quickly after that as possible, so that plenty 
of CO2 is still being produced.  This gets the wort off the trub quickly.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org