From: david mardiste <dam@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Furstenberg and other things (Was: Human
Organization: federalism research centre   RSSS ANU
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 06:58:46 GMT

In article <1araklINNj85@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> INFIDEL,
wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au writes:
>
>>In article <1ajtc2INNsvg@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au
>>(INFIDEL) writes:>
>>> Finally, perhaps our Finnish observers would like to explain why the
>>> Furstenberg school, the Arajs Kommando and the other SD divisions had
no
>>> shortage of fighters for their cause in occupied Latvia and Estonia.
>>> John Wojdylo
>> Perth, Western Australia

Unfortunately, I cannot find very much information on these groups in
Estonia, i've never read detailed histories of the Nazi organisations.
Could you please post to the net or to me directly your references so i
can update.
.
>>Why are WE supposed to explain that? 
>>What is the thing that NEEDS to be explained?
>
>
>Why on earth should any supporters of the Estonian citizenship laws 
>learn about Estonian's dubious recent history on matters of ethnic
>relations ?

From a political science perspective and from policy analysis it is very
easy to understand why the previous Estonian government adopted the
citizenship laws they did. 
However, it is misleading to imply that those who supportedthe policy
decisions on citizenship laws wish to condone the operations of the
groups you mentioned. 

John, you will be hard pressed to show me instances of anti-semitism in
pre-WWII Estonia.  In fact, it seemes, that for historical reasons,
German nationalism (see any basic history on Estonia) was more distrusted
than the Russians were before the Soviet occupation in 1940-41. 

My sources indicates that Estonians mostly drafted/joined home defence
units (Gr Selbstschutz) or the German army or police and the Waffen SS.
Estonian soldiers did serve in the cannon fodder units which were the
waffen SS. (as you know not all things branded SS were elite Pure German
Units). The Waffen SS served as the combat units for foreign
nationalities. The special forces that acted in Klooga and Kalevi-Liiva
death camps were not Waffen SS, although these units did contain some
Estonians, as well as other nationalities. 

To say that the existence of these units that you mentioned means that
ALL estonians served with them is a bit of a gross generalisation. Most
did not. To imply this is the same as saying that all of the CPSU members
were involved in Stalin's purges of the 30s, when infact most were
victums of the purges. 

The following is a quote from an article by Toe No~mm Vice Chairman of
the Society of Estonian War History, Published in The Monthly Survey of
Baltic and Soviet Politics, December 1991 pp12-13.

"True, that during the German occupation thousands of Jews were killed in
Estonia and besides German officials and special troops this was done by
Estonians. But it was so all over occupied Europe wherever crimes like
these were committed the "help" of local residents was used.The Estonians
are just as guilty ast he Belgians, the Latvians, the Poles, the French,
and so on."

Obviously, this issue is important to you or why waste the band width and
the time.However, I would like to know more about the groups that you
mentioned and if you have any details you could send and especially the
exact numbers of estonians that were involved with the units you
mentioned. I'm sure there could be some Russian sources somewere.

David Mardiste

>>Tapani Hietaniemi
>
>JW
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8480 soc.culture.jewish:17841