Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Travel,Persona
From: jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair)
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:59:24 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Sir Kevin responds to me with:
>> 
>>       I remain unconvinced that anything of use was conveyed in this fashion. 
>> It seems clear that THIS lady of that society knew naught of that style, not
>> that A lady of it couldn't. It seems a half-measure to equivocate around saying
>> "I could have, but didn't."
> 
>   Sigh.  No it isn't.  It's showing what would and what would not have been
> known by the lady.  Period.  I don't see or feel compelled to look for a 
> hidden agenda.  Rather, it is showing one person's attempt at period style.

     By THIS lady. Period. That's fine, but it seems to have picked up
somewhere the connotation that the lady's knowledge was indicative of all
ladies' knowledge, and not just hers.


>>      What is Authenticity? In any case, I read it more as "how far are you 
>> really willing to take persona?" Is it but a handy sketch, or is it a real 
>> person? What would such a person do in a situation/society such as the one
>> described. I think they want more authenticity (in personas), not less.
> 
>   What's your point?  You are using vague pronouns, I don't understand this
> paragraph or its intent.

    That is suprising, as it seems quite clear. To paraphrase, then, what is a
persona? Is it just " a 14th c. Scot", and no more? Is it "a man who grew up
on the Isle of Man. Once he sneaked into the woods and watched the priests at
their sacred rites, etc." Is the persona a real personage? Or is it a more
vaguely defined thing?  I am wondering of people what they really mean by
"persona". Is it just "an average Scot would have done this and known that" or 
"Connor did this, knows that because his grandfather told him so, etc."?  I see
the second approach as having more authenticity, as it usually (but not
necessarily) requires more in the way of thought and research, like anything
wherein authenticity is striven for.


>  
>> > Similarly, Fra Tadhg and hzhao@eagle.wesleyan.edu seem to be viewing
>> > "staying in persona" as the equivalent of fighting with one hand tied
>> > behind your back--an arbitrary restriction that makes it harder to do
>> > what you want to do. In fact, in many contexts, including the class I
>> > was describing, staying in persona is a device that makes it easier
>> > to do what you want to do--which is one reason to stay in persona.
>> > David is not a nearly as good a story teller as Cariadoc.
>> > 
>> > David (and Cariadoc)
>> 
>>          As above, I suppose it all depends on how you view the persona as a
>> human being, beyond being a temporal construct. Are they a personality, or 
>> simply "a 10th c Norman"?  This becomes a highly personal choice, and one which
>> cannot be simply waved away with the wand of More Authenticity/More Fun. 
>>       Think and do what you want with your persona. No one REALLY has any
>> guidelines on just how they should be or react. Just be sure you want to know
>> what you are doing and why. If you are a "stock" Celt, OK. If you are a more
>> assiduously researched persona from so-and-so, who believed X because grandma
>> told you stories about it and once sneaked a look at the priest's grove, fine
>> too.
>> 
>>         As Fred Friendly has said "the purpose of these discussions is not to
>> change your mind, but to make the agony of decision-making so intense that you
>> can escape it only by thinking."
> 
>   Again what's your point?  First you are against the creative and informa-
> tive use of personna to make a point, and now you say do what you wish.
> Which is it?  Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but you have me completely
> confused as to which side of the discussion you are on...  Maybe I should
> leave off with this discussion, I'm too confused...

        I am not against the creative and informative use of persona. I am more
of a Socratic bent, asking people to define their terms. I do believe in the
persona as the tool of the wearer, and the more creative and informed you are
with this tool, the more useful it becomes. 
        However, ultimately it does not matter what I think, or Cariadoc
thinks, or anybody else. You are going to do what you want anyway. Listen to
the points of all concerned, if you like, and make your own decision. Just be
sure you know WHY you are choosing, though. Don't just sleepwalk through such
decisions. I think everyone is really asking people to think more about their
personas and presenting contending philosophies for consideration.

     There are, of course, more than two sides to any such thing.

                 -Eirik

>  
>>                  -Eirik
> 
> Kevin