HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com (Jim Lyon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Dip Gauges
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:41:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: 130.Lyon_Jim-120892141323
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: Tandem Computers, Inc

In article <1992Aug12.173246.2171@selway.umt.edu>, cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith) wrote:
> 
> I disagree with the general statement that dip gauges are always
> unreliable.

Of course dip gauges are not always unreliable.  However, absent positive
confirmation that the gauge is accurate *in* *your* *airplane* *using*
*your* *dipping* *technique*, the readings of the gauge should be treated
with a large grain of salt.  Anecdotal evidence follows...

While enroute to Oshkosh '90, in a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks,
and a dip gauge for a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks, I nearly ran
out of fuel.  I ran one tank dry, and immediately diverted to the nearest
airport.

Before departure, I had dipped the tanks, and knew that I had 41 gallons
on board for a 2 hour flight.

After landing, I dipped the empty tank; the dip stick came out dry.
I added 5 gallons; the dip stick read 12 gallons.
I added another 5 gallons; the dip stick read 18 gallons.
By the time I had added 30 gallons, the dip stick read 31 gallons.

So, the error at the low end of the scale was in the range of 7 to 8
gallons per side, or more than an hour's worth of fuel.  If I hadn't
diverted, I would have made Oshkosh with about -10 minutes of fuel on
board.  :-(

The major problem with these dip gauges is that, while a one gallon
difference in a nearly full tank is about 1/4 inch on the gauge, a one
gallon difference in a nearly empty tank is less than 1/32 inch on the
gauge.  The actual reading on the gauge is strongly affected by the
aircraft attitude and the location at which you dip (front of the filler
neck vs. rear of the filler neck).

-- Jim Lyon                           "... where the work is NonStop,
   Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com                     and we do everything twice."
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Amy Johnson?
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Date: 12 Aug 1992 20:45:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



Okay, so who *was* Amy Johnson and what did she do?  I'd never heard of
her until I heard that Al Stewart song Flying Sorcery, which mentions
her only in passing:

"From the photographs of Kitty Hawk and the biplanes on the wall

 You were always Amy Johnson from the time that you were small."

(A good tune, but like a lot of Stewart's songs, a bit on the esoteric side.)


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: pierre@synopsys.com (Pierre Wildman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: That would never happen to me...BUT
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:24:49 GMT
Organization: Synopsys Inc.

In article <1992Aug10.191409.4269@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) 
writes:

>Pipers have tabs.  Either fill the tank or use the tabs.  Cessnas don't 
have
>tabs.  Fill the tanks, and learn how the particular aircraft you fly 
consume
>fuel, the way _you_ fly them.  Then you can estimate fuel consumption and
>fuel remaining based on time.

>                                               Geoff

Not all Pipers have tabs, either.  It's a hassle trying to maintain a 
partial fuel load on a regular basis.  Topping off restricts what you can 
carry in the cabin.  In the Seneca, if you can see gas directly below the 
filler cap you have at least 80 gallons (w LR tanks), but it's "loose".  
Sometimes you have to get conservative and carry more gas and less pax.

Pierre Wildman
Seneca N29461
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)
Subject: Donations or help needed by school.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 19:14:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Distribution: usa
Keywords:  Instructional donations desperately needed.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Hello all,
  This letter is  for our Aviation Science teacher. The mainframe I am
using to compose this  services the entire district but the request is
for Mr. Allen Spalt  who is in charge of the course here at the center
where the VAX is located. Essentially the course is ground school plus
some air time  for the students through  an arrangement with the Kirt-
land  AFB Aero-Club.  Since school districts are  not known for budget
prosperity and we have been exceedingly hard hit this year I am asking
if any of you aviation  netters may know of or have anything which you
would be willing to donate for educational purposes. Anything would be
very much appreciated as this is a very popular course and we are able
to show the students not only the essentials of flying but how advanc-
ed math concepts relate to navigating a plane in flight.
  Our other  instructor  for the  course is Pat Helms who is not on my
VAX  yet ( but will be ). Incidentally his daughter  is going  to be a
mission specialist on an upcoming shuttle flight this fall.
  I want  to thank  you in advance for whatever help or advice you may
be able to  give.  Mr. Spalt's  Net address follows and mine is in the
blurb at the end of this message. spalt@apsicc.aps.edu
  Unfortunately over the  years I have learned to swallow my pride and
take hat in hand for whatever we may need top acquire.
						Most Sincerely,
							Jim Skeba
======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    jim@apsicc.aps.edu
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager 
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: M21208@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Regional differences in IFR route assignment (was: I give up...)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:54:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.023831.5816@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us>
philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez) writes:
 
>I have a vaguely related question:  I've done a good bit of IFR flying
>in the West (Bay Area, LA, San Diego and in-between), and I've come to
>learn a huge amount of consistency in assigned routings, even in very
>busy complex airspace.  Sure, sometimes there are surprises, but
>they're relatively infrequent, and I most always get the routing I
>expected (and the route I filed, since why not file what I expect to
>get?)
>
The routings are generally produced by the center computers based on a lookup
table that takes into account arrival and destination, altitude, and aircraft
type.  They should thus be fairly predictable, with some variation for the
configuration of airports.  (Routes often change when runways change.)  It
really doesn't matter what you file between departure and destination - if the
computer has a "preferred routing" in the table, that's what you'll get.  Most
of the variability in the NE seems to come up when flying tower enroute, as
approach controllers tend to handle enroute traffic on an ad hoc basis.  You
may then get a revision practically every time you get a new controller. I've
heard similar accounts from pilots in the Chicago area.
From: leed@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Lee Devlin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Long-EZ Gear Ups (was Re: Oshkosh significant happenings)
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:46:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Avondale, PA

Speaking of Long EZ gear ups, my instructor had the distinct honor of
landing my friend's LongEZ after the gear separated on takeoff and went
through the propeller.  My friend was in the back seat and you can't
land an EZ from the back seat since it has no rudder pedals or throttle
control in that position.  The wooden prop was damaged but it still
allowed them to make a full circle around the pattern and land it
successfully.

Landing gear up is one thing, but landing a hot plane knowing you have a
damaged prop and NO NOSE GEAR is quite another.  I gives you time to
think about it.  It really convinced me that she would be my instructor
when I decided to get my instrument ticket (which I'm working on
currently).

The plane suffered very minor cosmetic damage and was flying again in 2
days.  The owner had built up the nose with several Kevlar layers
especially for gear-ups.  I think this reflects well on Burt Rutan's
genius and I am a big fan of the EZ and its derivatives.  I find it to
be the most beautiful and exciting airplane ever to grace the skies....
but remember, I fly a Colt :-).  But someday, I'll own an EZ or maybe
even that new Cozy IV.

I've flown my friend's plane from the back seat and it is absolutely
wonderful.  It's stable, responsive, and very fast.  He averaged 178 MPH
in the Sun 100 race.  Imagine that on only 115 HP!.  The most
exhilarating moment of my flying career to date was doing a roll in the
Long EZ.  The visibility is completely unobstructed and there's nothing
like watching the view go from blue to green and back to blue again.  I
highly recommend it.

I may love Short Wing Pipers, but I adore Long EZs.

Lee Devlin             |    HP Avondale Division  | phone: (215) 268-5697 
Piper Colt N4986Z      |    Rt 41 & Starr Road    | email:
Spirit of rec.aviation |    Avondale, PA 19311    | devlin@hpavla.avo.hp.com
From: hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Question: Number of small aircraft wanted
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:28:05 GMT
Distribution: rec.aviation
Organization: Paramax Systems Corp (A Unisys Company), Great Valley Labs, PA

In article <1992Aug12.172825.5823@uwm.edu> ggraef@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Gerald Luther Graef) writes:
>
>On a related note, does anyone know how many certified pilots there
>are in the United States?

Okay, here are the "Active Certificated Pilots" numbers as reported
in _AOPA's_Aviation_USA_ 1992 edition.  Data is from 1990.

                              Total          Women
Pilot Certificates Held      702 659        40 515
  Student                    123 663        15 007
  Recreational                    87             6
  Private                    299 111        17 301
  Commercial                 149 666         5 210
  ATP                        107 732         2 082
  Helicopter (only)            9 567           292
  Glider (only, w/medical)     7 833           617

Flight Instructor             63 775         3 239
Instrumented Rated           297 073            NA
Helicopter (total)            32 741            NA
Glider (total)                19 546            NA
 
Non-Pilot Certificates Held  492 237         9 557
  Mechanic                   344 282         3 333
  Parachute Rigger            10 094           474
  Ground Instructor           66 882         3 760
  Dispatcher                  11 002           802
  Flight Navigator             1 290             0
  Flight Engineer             58 687         1 188

Some interesting numbers, there, if you look at them long enough.

	Bill (um, flight navigator, um, must be part 63, eh?) Hopkins

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hopkins@GVL.Unisys.Com          Paramax Systems Corporation (A Unisys Company)
215-648-2854 or 363-7464        Great Valley Labs, PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
MXE 016 radial, 8 nmi              Opening my mouth is not company policy.
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:06:51 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Aug20.182113.8084@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe) writes:
> In article <101820017@hpcvra.cv.hp.com>, Randy Stockberger writes:
>> Just a quick question.  Nothing in your post told me that all five
>> people were in the airplane.  Could some of the injured have been
>> on the ground?
> 
> Or could one of the injured (hopefully not the fatality) been under
> two years old and being held by one of the others?

The ages of the 5 persons aboard the aircraft ranged from 19 to 23, according
to the local paper.

Based on the ages, I'd say there were no children on board. Based on the
pilot's (age 20) behavior, I'd have to question that....

I'll see if I can dig up the article and post it on the net.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
From: danodom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Dan Odom)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Manuverability of 727
Summary: Manuverability of 727?
Keywords: foo
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:36:37 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

My friends and I were wondering ...

Exactly how manuverabe is a 727?

-- 
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
 | Dan Odom             | danodom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu                          |
 | No relation          | Telephone United States 913.628.1011              |
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: keenan@essence.inmet.com (Keenan Ross)
Subject: Re: IEEE insurance
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:03:12 GMT

I have both Life Insurance and AD&D (Accidental Death and Dismemberment)
through the IEEE.  They were by far the cheapest rates I could find.  As
others have mentioned the Life Insurance policy does not exclude General
Aviation related death.  However, the AD&D does.  The AD&D policy excludes
"A loss that occurs during or is a direct result of the Covered Person's
travel in, travel on, fall from or descent from any aircraft while such
aircraft is in flight, unless the Covered Person is traveling solely as
a passenger on a licensed, commercial, non-military aircraft."

-- 
--Keenan Ross           keenan@inmet.com
 Intermetrics, Inc.     uunet!inmet!keenan
 733 Concord Ave.       PHONE:    (617) 661-1840
 Cambridge, MA  02138   FAX:      (617) 868-2843
From: paulf@deere.com (Paul A. Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Oshkosh award
Keywords: Oshkosh award
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:01:06 GMT
Organization: Deere & Company, Moline, IL 61265

(I hope this doesn't violate 'netiquette', but I just have to tell someone
or I'll explode!)

The UPS truck dropped off a package at my house yesterday that came from 
the Experimential Aircraft Association in Oshkosh.  Since I hadn't ordered
anything from them, I was pretty curious about what it might be.

Inside the package was a plaque engraved with the words 'Outstanding
Workmanship' along with my name and my airplane's N number!  As soon as
I picked my jaw off of the floor, I began to realize that I had actually
won an award at Oshkosh!  I've won some awards at local airshows, but
Oshkosh is the big time!  Now I know that this isn't like winning Grand
Champion, but with the quality of homebuilts at Oshkosh, being noticed at 
all is quite a thrill!

The funny thing is that my plane was at Oshkosh in 1991, and didn't win
anything.  The only thing I've really done to it in the last year was to
sew an 'Air Usenet' patch on the headrest.  Well apparently that was 
enough!  I guess it's the little things that the judges are looking for!!

I guess the moral of the story is:
	Never underestimate the power of the net!

 - Paul A. Fisher (I hope my head still fits through the door :-)
   Q-200 N17PF

-----
Paul A. Fisher                       paulf@ci.deere.com
Engineering & Manufacturing Systems  ...uunet!deere!paulf
John Deere Road                      (309) 765-4547
Moline, Illinois 61265
From: mpeters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Why not a bi-winged sailplane??
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:26:47 GMT
Reply-To: mpeters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Michael Peters)
Distribution: usa
Organization: WIN Dataplus Services WTC-1 - Dayton, OH


bullocAwatson.bms.com writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.164424.13691@eplrx7.es.duPont.com>, Mark Milbourne 
><milbouma@esvax.dnet.dupont.com> writes...
>> 
>>I have been wondering if a bi-winged design would be feasable for a
>>sailplane.   
>..
>>Adequate separation of wings might be a problem, since modern sailplanes
>>typically have minimal fusealage height.  
>
>Interesting concept.  I'm not an aerodynamicist - not even a glider pilot, but 
>intuition says you may have answered your own question above.
>
>However, why not a _tandem_ biplane?  As in a canard and it's cousins.
>
>OK, you aerodynamics people, as a fellow netter is fond of saying, inquiring 
>minds want to know.

I'm not an aerodynamics person, but a bi-winged design as described by
the original poster, would seem to have a significant amount of drag as
compared to a traditional sailplane.  There is much care taken by the
sailplane designer both at the wing/fuselage connection and wingtips to
eliminate drag and the inefficiencies at the wing tip area.  A bi-wing
design would have twice as many problem areas as the traditional glider,
as well as the problems mentioned above.

Anyway, boosting the L/D by several points would not be that significant
for an acrobatic sailplane.  The Salto has only a few points less than
the Libelle from which the wing was borrowed and shortened, so it retains
a mid-30's to 1 ratio.  The increase in parasitic drag of a bi-wing, I
think, would more than offset the advantages.  One of the better acro-
sailplane pilots, Manfred Radius(sp?), says the name of the game is
energy management.  To conserve that energy you would not want the
additional drag.

One side note though, the development of the joined wing technology may
be one way around some of the problems.  A micrlight design in Australia
used a joined wing concept which seem to be quite efficient for a short
span.  The glide ratio was claimed to be 20:1 or higher which put it in
the motorglider category, not bad for short wings (I can't recall the span).


-- 
Mike Peters

Mike.Peters@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM
...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!mpeters
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: ATC communications (was Re: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Date: 12 Aug 1992 19:01:26 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Aug12.172132.2328@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
>One of the issues I had to consider was non-standard
>air traffic control phraseology (e.g. "leaving four point five for six").

My primary instructor taught me that that was the _right_ way to say it, so
that I'd sound like the big guys; he said that the standard phraseology would
label me as a newly minted pilot and not a real pro.

Then again, things my primary instructor's done have drawn ...well,
unfavorable... comments here before...
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
   "This is a network here, right?  How about giving a little thought to
            interoperability?" -- John F. Woods, to Brian Kantor
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper)
Subject: Re: Trip report to Alaska
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 03:32:20 GMT

rob@ucsco.ucsc.edu (99708000) writes:



>Went to Alaska again this year.   
		
		[details of Alaska trip deleted]

>Next, I got a clearance I thought I would never hear--"28SS cleared
>to Yakutat via the Hinchinbrook NDB and Amber One".  That's a
>clearance for an NDB airway--they don't exist anymore in the lower 48


	Actually there is 1 in the lower 48 I know of, G-13.
	It is on the Outer Banks of NC and runs from Pamlico NDB (OUC)
	to the Hatteras Marine Radio Beacon (HI) to ZOLMN intersection(!)
	then to the Manteo NDB (MQI).

	This airway does have the advantage of an MEA of only 2000 MSL.
	The sectional shows the highest obstacle near the airway to
	be only 700 MSL.

	It is a favorite "Stump the student" question for CFI's and
	Examiners in these parts.


Kit


-- 
   Kit Cosper                        cosper@seq.uncwil.edu         
   PP-ASEL-IA                        AMA 31022
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Warbirds over Seattle
Summary: B-29, B-24; what were they doing there?
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:52:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory


Just got back from a vacation in Washington state, where I was surprised Monday
by what certainly looked like a B-29 and B-24 flying wingtip-to-wingtip over
the north end of Seattle.  It made me want to cry ...  Anybody know what those
old warbirds were doing there?  Did we miss an airshow (in which case I *will*
probably cry!)?

-- 
Bill Johnson				| "This is a bit complicated, so let
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| me explain it backwards."  (first
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| line of a memo from a fellow Los
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| Alamos physicist who will go unnamed)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:04:21 GMT

In article <122140218@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn) writes:
|> So what's so great  about Nut Tree?  I seem to remember  some of the flyins
|> going  there  so there  must be a  restaurant  on/near  the  field.  Is the
|> restaurant  any good?  Do they serve  breakfast,  lunch and  dinner or only
|> some of the above?  Anything  else to see or do on/near  the  field?  Email
|> responses are fine unless you think the net would like to know also.

I've been rather disappointed on my two visits to Nut Tree.  It has it's good
points - it's a nice airport and there are lots of shops and a restaurant
a short walk from the parking area.  I don't like the restaurant, however.
They are seriously overpriced for the kind of food they serve.  In fact,
everything at the Nut Tree itself is overpriced.  There are 
some ~factory outlet" stores across the street from Nut Tree.  Some people
feel they find bargains there.  I wasn't all that impressed.

-- 

	Jim Burke	"Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!"
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
Newsgroups: rec.aviation