From: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston)
Subject: Re: Whats a male chauvinist pig?
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:48:27 GMT

wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) writes:
: 
: > : Pointless flotsam. Please take this kind of noise elsewhere.
: > 
: > I laughed. Lighten up. |-)
: > -- 
: 
: Really? You laughed? Maybe you can explain what was funny about it?

	I laughed because this was a form of humour I particularly like.
The sarcastic statement of an outrageous view that the person
(presumabely) does not agree with, but unfortunately  many do.

: Posted by itself, with no attempt made to use it as an intro to a 
: conversation, or to make a point, it was simply gratuitous, bordering on 
: harassment.
: 
	I assumed the remark was sarcastic.I don't know what to make of this
one though.

: Everybody suffers sex pain, gender pain. So, a joke like that releases 
: some of the male pain, and makes the suffering males laugh. Big deal. 
: Better to joke and laugh than to cry, right?
: 
<stuff deleted 'cos I agree with it>
: 
: I've seen this man/woman argument many, many times. Mostly I'm not 
: interested in this "stage" of it, where a woman releases her pain and a 
: bunch of men harass her about it-- it's as old as sitcom reruns. 

I agree but I don't agree that it was relevant.

: The question I'm interested in is how do we deal with this sex pain among 
: ourselves, in the so-called "pagan" community? How much stereotyping and 
: cruelty is happening amoung us, at the festivals, in the groups; and I 
: mean cruelty going both ways, towards both male and female? 
: 
: There's nothing I know how to do for the masses of 'normals'-- they're 
: too immersed in the pain and exploitation, and they seem bascially happy 
: with their fate. But I'd like to think that among pagans maybe we can 
: work some of this deeply ingrained bitterness and programming out.

Good point, and one worthy of discussion, but I don't think I am confident
that I could reply with the insight that these questions deserve.

: 
: If being light means laughing without thinking at bitter unexamined 
: jokes, than I'm glad to play the heavy.... ;-)

It may be that you have missed the point, or indeeed that I have. If we
both understood it then we are very different people. Still differences
(in opinions at least) are not a bad thing as long as they don't lead to
hate.
For my 5 cents worth (2cent pieces have been phased out in Australia)
I like differences except when they are used as an excuse to become
exclusive. There are occasions when discrimination can be positive but
these must be looked at on a case by case basis and it is pointless trying
to generalise (as I unfortunately just have). Whatever I'm losing myself
here. 

: 
: Later, Bill E.

The irony is that the joke has started a conversation |-). You must excuse
me as I find it hard to take a lot of things seriously (except suffering)
and I am inclined to be flippant. Anyway, cool runnings and may you
prosper and livehowever ong suits you.
-- 
Conrad Leviston	 | Got to find a brightness in the soul,
mongoose@yoyo.	 | Not look outside to find out where we are,
cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, 
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made posession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan