From: Mike J. Brown <mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: FAQ: Ambient music [3/3]
Followup-To: bit.listserv.emusic-l,alt.rave
Originator: recmusic@galaxy
Reply-To: mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:56:08 GMT

Part 3 of 3
______________________________________________________________________

Ruminations: Eno

==="Scott T. Lillis" <sl4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>

I have been listening to the 1st and 4th releases of Brian Eno's ambient
music collection ('Music for Airports' and 'On Land').  I have been
unable to find the others in the collection.  I'm not even possitive
that there aren't more than four in the collection.  If anyone has info
on this I'd like to see it.  Thanks in advance.

===malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)

The answer was posted yesterday in that Ambient FAQ, but it wasn't
really clear:

>                _Ambient 1: Music for Airports_
>                _Ambient 2: Day of Radiance_ 
>                  (looped hammered dulcimer, performed by Laraaji)
>                _Ambient 3: The Plateaux Of Mirror_
>                _Ambient 4: On Land_

Ambient 2 is really Laraaji and Eno, or perhaps just produced by Brian
Eno, and Ambient 3 is with Harold Budd. Both are probably not filed in Eno
sections since they are essentially works by other artists that Eno just
"produced" though he may actually play on them too. 

Another confusing point for some folks is what happened to Music For Films
volume 2. The FAQ only listed 1 & 3:             

>                _Music for Films I & III_

Volume 2 was released as part of an Eno lp box set released in 1983, and it
and a rarities 12" were supposedly *only* released in this box. I have a copy, 
and MFF 2 sounds a lot like Apollo and has Eno's brother on much of it. 
MFF 3 is really a various artists compilation that is not all Eno's music. 

===shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)

Also check out The Apollo Soundtracks by Eno, his brother, and Daniel
Lanois. This was a soundtrack for a documentary that used actually
footage filmed during the Apollo missions. VERY atmospheric, and one of
my favourites.

===sweet@skat.usc.edu (Rob Sweet)

	Look for "Possible Musics; Fourth World Music" (or something like
that) from Brian Eno and John Hassel.  It's a very spooky album with a lot
of African percussion and influence.  John Hassel's trumpet playing is very
eerie and sounds like nothing else I've ever heard.  This album is probably 
out of print, so check the used bins.  Also out of print, (presumably) is
an album called "Eno, Moebius, & Rodelius" which isn't really "ambient"
but has some interesting synth and vocoder-type effects.  

	More along the lines of the ambient series are "Music for Films"
and "Apollo".  I would like to get get Apollo on CD because my tape came
from an LP with lots of noticeable pops, mainly because of the wide dynamic
range of the album, and many quiet passages.

	Don't forget to check out Fripp and Eno's "No Pussyfooting" and
"Evening Star", and Eno's "Discrete Music".

===jaeger@buphyk.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)

>"Possible Musics; Fourth World Music" ... "Eno, Moebius, & Rodelius"
I've seen both of these on CD.

>"Discrete Music".
DM in particular is excellent!

===malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)

It's Hassell, not Hassel, actually! I have a nice discography of his works
if anyone wants a copy. The Fourth World Possible Musics and the other
collaboration with Eno, "Dream Theory in Malaya" are both on cd and findable. 
Eno, Mobius and Rodelius did two lpos together - I'm fonder of the 2nd, 
"After The Heat". I think that was on cd but good luck finding it. It's a 
bit easier to find some odd compilations made up from the Cluster & Eno and
other works by Moebius & Plank, solo Rodelius, etc. I don't know why they did
this but there's at least three compilations of these folks, Benungen (sp?)
and Benungen II and one other, and I think the packaging is deceptive as 
they make it appear it's all these folks together but it's really pieces 
by a number of different artists. Plus I found that "After the Heat" has a 
icontinuity and low to it that taking the tracks out of context destroys. 
I really lkove the dark weird track "Broken Head" with Eno singing "I was
just a broken head... slide and stumble...", it's really strange. But 
as you say, this stuff isn't really ambient, and it's not all instrumental
either.   

==="Scott T. Lillis" <sl4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>

While we're going "off" on all of Eno's stuff.  I know Eno plays
keyboards on Remain in Light-Talking Heads. Doeas any one know what
tracks he plays on.  Also, I have My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, does
any one know of any Eno/Byrne works.  I've heard that Eno left in the
middle of "Ghosts" and David Byrne finished it alone is this true.  It
wouldn't surprise with their egos put together for that long.

===malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)

Ummm, Bush of Ghosts was actually completed something like a year before 
Remain in Light but release was held until afterwards - supposedly Byrne's
label wouldn't let a solo release out before he did another T.Heads release
first. So Bush of Ghosts was recorded before Remain in Light and many of the
musicians and the whole recording approach (overdubbing to layer and build
instead of recording a "band" playing songs) was done first on BOG and then
used on RIL. Another reason for the delay in releasing BOG was that some of 
the material couldn't be released - there was problems with using a radio
voice so one of the tracks was redone. A couple other tracks got reworked
before it got released too. If Eno walked out it would probably have been
on Remain in Light, but I never heard about this. They continued to work
together on The Catherine Wheel after that... BTW, supposedly one of the 
keyboard parts by Eno on an early (unreleased) BOG track ended up in a track
on RIL, but I'm not sure which one. 

A collaboration between Terry Riley and John Cale on the recording of 
Church of Anthrax supposedly ended when one of those two stormed out of
the sessions. I'm not sure which one left and which one stuck around to 
clean it up for release... 

===hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)

>this but there's at least three compilations of these folks, Benungen (sp?)
>and Benungen II 

It's 'Begegnungen' (Meetings) - don't know no. II, but no.I is not interesting
IMO - esp. when compared with the 'real' Eno stuff (Ambient, Apollo, Music for
Films (all time fav.)) or the marvelous 'No Pussyfooting' (Eno/Fripp) or the
even more marvelous Eno/Hassell products, mentioned earlier in this thread. Not
to forget Hassell solo...

===shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)

I saw a 2 CD set by these guys in a used store. Is it any good ?
What is it like ? BTW is this Moebius the same guy who does cartoons
for Heavy Metal magazine ?

===malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)

Yes. No. Not the same Moebius, at least as far as I know. I'm curious what
the cd set was - if it's the 1st and 2nd lps by them I'd say it's worth 
hearing - the music is mostly instrumenta and composed of piano, synth and
some other elements. I find After The Heat to have a beautiful and somewhat
relaxing progression that flows really well from a sort of eastern sound into
some really strange stuff. But if it's the Benungen (sp?) I & II then it's
maybe not as worthwhile. As I mentioned in another followup it's really
clips from a lot of different lps by other artists too, Eno is not on all 
of it and I think that the packaging is sort of a rip off - they don't
tell you it's a compilation or what the source lps are. 

===jeff@tessi.com (Jeff Hemmerling)

Here is the info on the above mentioned albums...

1978   Eno, Moebius, Roedelius - After the Heat [Sky CD 3021]
1984   Eno, Moebius, Roedelius, Plank - begegnungen [Sky CD 3090]
1985   Eno, Moebius, Roedelius, Plank - Begegnungen II [Sky CD 3095]

These are all available on CD; I own them.

===malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)

There's one more Eno, Moebius & Roedleius lp from prior to After the Heat, 
also. I have the two Begegungen ones, and a friend has yet another compilation
that has a nearly identical cover and I think is a compilation of the two
Cluster & Eno releases (Cluster is Moebius & Roedelius) though it might also
have solo works by the Cluster guys and some of the stuff from the 2 Moebius
& Plank lps (Rastakrautpasta and ???) which they included on the Begegnungen
ones. Again, my warning is that the compilations aren't marked as such and 
don't list the source lps and the present themselves as if they are 
collaborations by all those artists with Eno when in fact only a couple of 
tracks feature Eno and Eno and Plank never play together on these releases. 

===jeff@tessi.com (Jeff Hemmerling)

You're right; I spaced it out.  In fact I just purchased it recently
and it's quite good.

1977   Cluster & Eno - Cluster & Eno [Sky CD 3010]

===donnell@morayeel.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous)

 It should be mentioned that Mobi Mobius and Achim Rodelius are better known 
under the name Cluster, with albums under that name for almost 20 years.
Very influential on Eno, as shown by "Another Green World" and his early 
ambient music. They also collaborate with Eno for one track on the 
"Before and After Science" album. as for Begugnungen I and II, the information
is rather skimpy, but the tracks are compiled off of albums that are harder to 
find. Eno is not on all of it, but Mobius a/o Rodelius are. 
Mobius likes to record albums with friends, like "Mobius/Plank", Mobius/
Bierbohm, and others
Rodelius has a long string of solo albums out. "Selbstportrait" <PLease
forgive the spelling. Its the german term for Self-portrait>. I think he 
is up to at least volume 6 by now.
Has cluster done anything since "Grosses Wasser"?
______________________________________________________________________

Ruminations: Kraftwerk, LFO, 808 State, etc.

==="Harvey D. Thornburg" <hthornbu@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>

1.  Maybe I should read through again, but I didn't see and prominent mention
of Mike Oldfield (Tubular Bells) anywhere.  He and Kraftwerk (their first
six albums up through "Radio-Activity" really defined the genre for Eno to 
do something with it. "Tubular Bells" and Kraftwerk's "Autobahn" are seminal
works.

2.  Although I could be wrong, the KLF didn't seem to be interested in
"ambient house" until 808 State came out with the Quadrastate EP (containing
"Pacific State" among others) and "90" in 1989.  Seems to me that when 808
started to break down their rhythms into a less repetitive, more tribal feel,
substituting chirping birds and lush major-key chord transitions for 
piano and acid-sound effects _they_ really defined the genre for ambient
house.  It can be confusing, however, since they contributed just as heavily
to hardcore techno (w/"Cubik", etc.) in their early years as well.  Because
of this, I see the rising "ambient techno" genre as just a simple extension
of 808 State's work.  For example, some of tracks from the FSOL "Accelerator" 
album, most noticeably "Stolen Documents", are extremely 808-influenced.
And tribal percussion is back!!!!

3.  Another FSOL ambient influence, who I feel deserves just a few mentions
in the FAQ, is LFO, techno's answer to early Kraftwerk.  The album 
"Frequencies" is simply fantastic in the way Kraftwerk's was: simple 
yet odd chord progressions through pure synthesizer tones can put any
listener into a totally ambient trance, and I think FSOL has picked up on 
this (in at least their choice of sounds).  However, again like 808 their
stuff can lean towards hard techno at times.

4.  When you talk about "other bands centered around the Orb" (or whatever
the quote was)  you're referring to stuff like Blue Pearl and Ultramarine, 
right?  As you know, both these bands are _really_ going off on new, exciting
directions and probably deserve mention.  I don't have any of either group's
albums that Pete Ashdown gave (slightly unfavorable) reviews to but I've
heard some of their stuff an miscellaneous radio programs.  Ultramarine seems
to have little connection with techno but is relaxing to the extreme, while
Blue Pearl is more beat-oriented and their use of flute (in the one track I
heard) blows stuff like Enigma out of the water.

5.  For what it's worth, any of Throbbing Gristle's Chris Carter-influenced
tracks such as "AB/7A" and "Walkabout" are some of the best ambient stuff
of all time.  You might also want to mention Chris Carter's solo album
"The Space Between" or miscellaneous Chris+Cosey stuff (the earlier the
better)

6. The definitive ambient/industrial/experimental track for me is of course
Can's "Aumgn", an 18-minute Hafler Trio-esque drone recorded in 1971, well
before the terms "ambient" or "industrial" were ever used to any applicable
degree.

______________________________________________________________________

Information: where to find information

Discographies, mailing list archives, lyrics, guitar chords, and a
wealth of other information on many musical artists are available at
Dave Datta's Music Archive via anonymous FTP at cs.uwp.edu.  
There is a list of music-related mailing lists available there also.

For information on FTP check the regular postings in the 
news.announce.newusers newsgroup on UseNET.

You can also read and post to the UseNET newsgroups related to music.

Independent record shops, especially those that deal in used records
or dance music imports, usually have a knowledgable staff who can
provide you with lots of information on your favorite music.
______________________________________________________________________

Information: where to find ambient music

Large chain record stores like Tower, Sam Goody/Musicland, National
Record Mart, and Camelot will usually have excellent selections of
domestic releases at retail or near-retail prices.

The best places to find good music are independent record stores near
colleges.

Try your local library.  Most libraries now loan CDs and some larger
ones may have old records for your listening (or sampling) pleasure.

Read the music-related groups on UseNET!  These include:

rec.music.afro-latin    Music with afro-latin influences.
rec.music.beatles       Postings about the Fab Four & their music.
rec.music.bluenote      Discussion of jazz, blues, and related types of music.
rec.music.cd            CDs -- availability and other discussions.
rec.music.christian     Christian music, both contemporary and traditional.
rec.music.classical     Discussion about classical music.
rec.music.country.western C&W music, performers, performances, etc.
rec.music.dementia      Discussion of comedy and novelty music.
rec.music.dylan         Discussion of Bob's works & music.
rec.music.early         Discussion of pre-classical European music.
rec.music.folk          Folks discussing folk music of various sorts.
rec.music.funky         Funk, rap, hip-hop, house, soul, r&b and related.
rec.music.gaffa         Discussion of Kate Bush & other alternative music.
rec.music.gdead         A group for (Grateful) Dead-heads.
rec.music.indian.classical Hindustani and Carnatic Indian classical music.
rec.music.indian.misc   Discussing Indian music in general.
rec.music.industrial    Discussion of all industrial-related music styles.
rec.music.info          News and announcements on musical topics. 
rec.music.makers        For performers and their discussions.
rec.music.marketplace   Records, tapes, and CDs: wanted, for sale, etc.
rec.music.misc          Music lovers' group.
rec.music.newage        "New Age" music discussions.
rec.music.phish         Discussing the musical group Phish.
rec.music.reviews       Reviews of music of all genres and mediums.
rec.music.synth         Synthesizers and computer music.
rec.music.video         Discussion of music videos and music video software.
alt.emusic              Ethnic, exotic, electronic, elaborate, etc. music.
alt.fan.shostakovich    Classical music composer.
alt.music.alternative   For groups having 2 or less Platinum-selling albums.
alt.music.enya          Gaelic set to spacey music.
alt.music.filk          ??.
alt.music.progressive   ??.
alt.music.rush          For Rushheads.
alt.music.the.police    Don't stand so close.
alt.rap                 For fans of rap music.
alt.rave                Techno-culture: music, dancing, drugs, dancing...
bit.listserv.allmusic   Discussions on all forms of Music.
bit.listserv.emusic-l   Electronic Music Discussion List.
clari.news.music        Reviews and issues concerning music & musicians.
comp.music              Applications of computers in music research.
k12.ed.music            Music & Performing Arts curriculum in K-12 education.
______________________________________________________________________

Late news:

===oivindi@dhhalden.no (OIVIND IDSO)

It is now clear that Model 500 (Juan Atkins) has signed to an underlabel of 
R&S Records called APOLLO. However, he hasn't released anything yet, but I'm 
eagerly awaiting his superb electronic magic.

The APOLLO label will take care of R&S' ambient material, and has so far had 
three releases. I only remember one of these; the "Microgravity" CD from our 
own (he's Norwegian) BIOSPHERE.

There are some excellent innovative ambient tracks on this album, and it's 
highly recommended listening!

===bt178@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David James)

There *is* a new Model 500 album reviewed in the August/Sept
issue of Street Sounds. Out on Apollo records.

===mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (me)

Aphex Twin has released a fantastic new album on R&S Records called
_Selected Ambient Works 85-92_.  I wholeheartedly recommend it!
It is a double LP of over 70 minutes of some of the best ambient
house ever composed.  Aphex Twin's music is not very sound-effects
oriented; rather, he makes very trancey, spacey, semimelodic, HEAVILY
processed electronic music.  Considering the guy (Richard D. James) is
only about 20 years old, some of this stuff must have been written when
he was 12 or 13.  It is absolutely brilliant.

Aphex Twin's other releases are also excellent; I forgot to mention
them in the FAQ.  Digeridoo and Polynomial-C are fairly ambient while
the b-sides are on the noisy side.  All are very distinctive; nobody
sounds like Aphex Twin.

Also, this has apparently been out for a while, but I just picked up the
domestic 12" of Pacific Symphony by Transformer 2 (Sonic Records SNC 2008).
Pacific Symphony is very appealing, being very much like Pacific by 808
State in structure, yet unique enough to keep one from saying it is a rip
off.  It's a very catchy track, I recommend it to all who like Pacific,
which would be just about everybody, eh?
_____________________________________________________________________
THE END

Newsgroups: rec.music.info,soc.culture.netherlands