From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Education...the magick solution
Date: 24 Aug 92 02:14:42 GMT

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> This sounds so prissy.  Do you have any idea how f*cked up 
> most families are?

Prissy?  PRISSY?  Yes, I have an idea.  I have an all too <expletive deleted> 
good idea.  What the hell do you think I'm talking about?

> Even the families that have 2 parents and no 
> other problems are more often than not dysfunctional to some 
> extent, and kids from these families are the lucky ones. Many children are 
> being raised by 1 parent, often in poverty.

Indeed.  Are you claiming that this absolves parents from the 
responsibilities that result from having children?  That it's somebody else's 
problem?

> Plus a lot of people don't give a care and its their right not to 
> give a care.  

I disagree.  Everyone is responsible for their own actions--not always their 
circumstances, by any means, but their actions.  If a person has a child 
which they "don't give a care" about, they are still responsible for that 
child.  How they exercise that responsibility is up to them, but if their 
lack of "care" harms another human being, especially one who cannot fend for 
itself, then I do indeed hold them responsible.  I especially hold those 
responsible who have plenty of resources, but don't bother to spend the time.

> I don't know agree with your first statement.  Plus, its not 
> feasible to expect that every child, regardless of how difficult, 
> will get enough personal attention from a teacher to make them 
> bloom.

Not with our current educational and social systems, no.  This is precisely 
why I think they are reprehensible.  I don't think that anything will change 
this beyond fundamental social upheaval, but I still hope and work for it.

> I do think the root of the problem is with the social structure - 
> which influences the families and community.

Agreed.

> Re: problems with children, you bet.  No support system here for 
> people trying to have families and take care of them decently 
> (despite all the yapping about family values).

Also no support system for people who *don't* want families, which is if 
anything an even worse problem, at least in the cities...

> There's a lot more that needs to be improved besides education.

Indeed.

> Enough already!  You've mentioned over and over how brilliant you 
> are.  Big deal.

Look: if I thought everyone had the advantages I have been given, I'd be one 
hell of a lot *more* annoying, I assure you.  I do my best to be aware of my 
own advantages and biases, in part so as to *avoid* making vacuous 
assumptions about other people's abilities and resources.

> IMO the one's who think they're the *most* 
> intelligent, seldom are.  After 14 years working in higher ed. and 
> for the past 3 years at a *medical* school, I've certainly heard 
> enough nonsense of this sort.

Fair enough; I'm just calling it like I see it.  Just as people find 
themselves in differing circumstances, they also have differing resources 
with which to cope with those circumstances.

> BTW, you mentioned (somewhere) how great our higher education 
> system is.  It is great.  I'm sure you also know that *many* of 
> the scientific and technical students here are from other 
> countries. 

They sure are.  What is wrong with this picture?

> Everyone has to make their own way, and find their own way.  
> There has never been and ideal society.  There never will be.  

Agreed.

> Sure its good to attempt improvements, especially where helpless 
> children are concerned.  But live in this age, in this country, 
> is a piece of cake compared to most places and times.

Yes, in many ways; that still doesn't make it healthy.  In other ways, it's 
as bad as ever (or worse).  Now, I may be biased by living near DC, but I 
think we have a long way to go.

And, to bring this around to magick again...

Magick is learning to act on purpose.  If that action serves only ourselves, 
or simply makes no difference, it's a waste of time and effort.  Magick isn't 
just a bunch of symbolic hoo-hah.  The worth of magick lies in its effects.  
Healing the mind; healing the body; feeding the hungry; giving to the poor 
(not just money, but time, attention, and love); resolving conflicts; 
consoling the dying; teaching children; putting yourself at risk for sake of 
another.  These are all very much magickal acts.

It's very tempting to become a cynic, and decide that "I can't really change 
anything, so I won't care--that way it won't hurt as much."  I have not made
that decision.

However, I'm probably annoying everyone else at this point.  I'll be happy to 
take it to email if anyone wants to, but I'm about ready to bow out of the 
public discussion.

--Amanda Walker

Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA