HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmurrain@HAMP.HAMPSHIRE.EDU
Subject: Re: (6098) Re: The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6102
Organization: unspecified
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:41:56 -0500

>In article <1992Sep8.103257.28137@cs.ucla.edu> orange@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca
> (Paul Vallee) writes:
>
>>Dave, you are omitting an extremely important factor that also causes
>>this disproportionnate transmission statistic:  In a country where the
>>birth control pill is unattainable, and there are no corner drugstores
>>to get condoms, I'm afraid anal sex is the preferred method of
>>contraception.
>
Then Alan Holmes writes
>In this respect, are you saying that the men are the carriers?
>If so how do they get it other than through homosexual activities?
>
>This is not intended to start an anti-homosexual debate.
>I just want to know.

Wait... First of all, Paul is oversimplifying. "In a country" What country?
There are many countries in the third world, and a blanket statement like
the one above is problematic. Paul, Do you have documentation that anal sex
is the preferred method of contraception (where?)? And is there  any data
suggesting that this behavioral practice has lead to increased infection
rates?

Also: The ratio of women to men AIDS cases in the first world is approx 1:9
the ratio in the third world is 1:1. Women are much more at risk (20 times)
in a single heterosexual encounter than a man is. So that if the infection
started among heterosexuals in the third world the mystery is why so many
men have gotten it. Is it promiscuity among men, or sexual involvement of
men with men? Or something else? Any suggestions?
In terms of the overall subject, that is whether or not AIDS will break out
in the "het community" (what a term!) There is new(ish) data about
infection rates among teenagers. The rate is higher than thought (.4% among
urban, disadvantaged but not necessarily IVDU youth from 13-17, as high as
2.5% among African-Americans), the ratio of women to men is aprox 1:1. What
about that?!?
---------------------------------------------
             Michelle Murrain
 School of Natural Science,Hampshire College
             Amherst, MA 01002
         Voice:(413) 549-4600 x688
             Fax:(413) 549-0707
      email: mmurrain@hamp.hampshire.edu
       home: MichellePM@aol.com

       "knowledge is wealth - share it."
---------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Subject: Re: Dealing with "HIV doesn't cause AIDS" people.
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca
Archive-Number: 6172
Organization: unspecified
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:07:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.000720.29209@cs.ucla.edu>  
downey%homer.CS.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Allen B. Downey) writes:

> 1)  Peter Duesberg (note the spelling) does have an alternate hypothesis
>     for the cause of AIDS...
>      His hypothesis is that AIDS among homosexual men and intravenous
>      drug users is caused by habitual drug use, that among Africans it
>      is caused by malnutrition, intenstinal parasites, and other  
factors,
>      and that among hemophiliacs it is caused by repeated blood trans-
>      fusions.

And in Bergalis's case, it was caused by too much dentistry, and in boring  
stay-at-home housewives with philandering husbands it's caused by too much  
housework, and in medical workers it's a long term effect of too much  
studying.

Seriously, there are about 100 times as many exceptions to Duesberg's  
hypothesis as there are to the HIV hypothesis. His theory is also rather  
contrived... three sources for an identical set of symptoms? All of them  
becoming much more common within the same decade? Come on.

> 3)   By "all the criteria" for being an causative infectious agent, I
>      assume you are referring to Koch's postulates, which the HIV-AIDS
>      hypothesis does NOT satisfy.

So what? Koch's postulates come from a time when we were only beginning to  
understand infectious disease. It is a rather gross set of criteria for  
determining infectiousness, and while infectious diseases usually do  
satisfy the postulates, there is no particular reason that they should all  
do so. HIV, in particular, is a likely candidate for an exception given  
that it is one of the very few human retroviruses, and is unlike almost  
any other disease organism. Invoking Koch's Postulates is an extremely  
weak argument against the HIV theory, and suggests that it's detractors  
have nothing better to go by. 

> 4)   I think it is presumptuous of you to call AIDS in the absence of 
> HIV "a red herring."

Yes, but it doesn't weaken the argument substantially to invoke only a few  
exceptions to a theory when Duesberg needs a new theory for practically  
every case.

> 5)    My advice for dealing with people who don't believe the HIV-AIDS
>       hypothesis is the same as my advice for dealing with people who 
>       do: evaluate what they say skeptically, think for yourself...

Good advice.
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi)
Subject: Reading on AIDS in Africa
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6103
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:01:18 GMT

Those who do not know where the Third World is but feel they know how 
AIDS is spread there may benefit from reading the folowing articles:

%A K.T. Dayie
%A A. Garraway
%T The AIDS Pandemic \- Part I (An Overview of the History, Modes of Transmission,
and Clinical Definition of AIDS in Africa)
%I African Technology Forum
%D November/December 1991
%P 34-37, 47
%E M. Tse

%A D. Serwadda
%T AIDS in Africa: Problems for Research and Researchers
%J The Lancet
%V 335
%P 842-843
%D 7 April, 1990

%P B4

%A A. Versi
%T Africa and the AIDS Myth
%J New African
%D April 1990

%A N. Clumeck
%A Others
%T Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome in Black Africans
%J Lancet
%D 1983
%V 642

%A IPS
%T Africa: Number of Babies Born with AIDS Increases
%J Inter Press Service (IPS)
%D 25th June 1992
%O Quoting a UNICEF Report. Posted to InterNet.

%A R. Nduati
%T Spread of Paediatric Aids
%J Kenya AIDS Newsletter
%E M. Okeyo
%D November 1990
%V 2
%N 11
%P 3

%A R.M. Anderson
%A Others
%T The Spread of HIV-1 in Africa: Sexual Contact Patterns and the Predicted
Demographic Impact of AIDS
%J Nature
%V 352
%P 581-588
%D 15 August 1991

%A A. Obudho
%B Sex Practices and Spread of Aids & Sexually Transmitted Diseases
%O Also appears in Kenya AIDS Newsletter, Vol. 2 No. 11 pp. 2.
%D 1990

%A J. Ochuodho
%T An AIDS Information System for Kenya
%J Masters Thesis
%C Birmingham Polytechnic
%O Forthcoming.
%D 1992

Huband, M., "The Price of Sex", Africa Report, pp. 69-70 (Nov/Dec 1991)

Sekento, B.S., "AIDS Nightmare", New African, pp. 20-21 (January 1992)

Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: cracraft@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Stuart Cracraft)
Subject: Anthony Perkins: RIP
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6173
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:17:41 GMT

Anthony Perkins, the Norman Bates of Hitchcock's movie PSYCHO,
has succumbed to A.I.D.S. at the age of 60 in Los Angeles. 
Perkins is married and has two children.

The article, in the L.A. Times, said Perkins kept the news amongst
his closest associates during the past several years.

Stuart
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman)
Subject: Pieces of the Puzzle
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6185
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 06:43:48 GMT

In most epidemics, certain individuals are exposed and
do not develop the disease.  I have heard, but cannot
document, that there exist several dozen, or possibly
several hundred, persons who have had repeated exposure
to HIV and are unaffected.  These people have no HIV in
their system, no antibodies, no reduced white blood cell
count, and no nothing.

The earliest examples of this were women who were married
to hemophiliacs (who died of AIDS), who were exposed many
dozens of times, and who have no effects (ten years later).
At the time, it was hoped that these cases showed that the
disease was not transmitted vaginally.

Later, there have been reports of gay men whose lover died,
and who are negative on all known tests.  

The question about this is "Why?".  There was a report some 
years ago, in the Economist, to the effect that some people
have no CD4 protein on their T-cells, and that these people
appear to be utterly immune to HIV.  I haven't seem anything
more on the subject, except oblique statements about how
this might not be a good subject to discuss broadly.  

Is this a real phenomenom?  If it is, exactly what causes it?

-dave

dchapman@well.sf.ca.us
From: orange@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (Paul Vallee)
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
Subject: Re: The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:50:10 GMT
Organization: Carleton University
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6097

In <1992Sep2.112110.19073@cs.ucla.edu> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:

>In the first-world countries, less than 10% of the cases are
>caused by heterosexual acts.  In the third world, the total
>seems to be more like 80%.

>We do not know why.

>Explanations which have been suggested include co-infections
>which break the skin, generally poor health and nutrition,
>and more virulent strains of the organism.  Other, more
>exotic possibilities have been suggested.

>The fact is that we do not know, and there is still a very
>real prospect of a heterosexual _break-out_ in North America.

>-dave

Dave, you are omitting an extremely important factor that also causes
this disproportionnate transmission statistic:  In a country where the
birth control pill is unattainable, and there are no corner drugstores
to get condoms, I'm afraid anal sex is the preferred method of
contraception.

Regards, and I hope this clears things up a bit,

orange@ccs.carleton.ca ------- Paul Vallee ---- 542429@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
------------Home: (613)569-1068 --------- Work: (613)995-6921------------
"Like chewing on glass, and eating my fingers,
                       I'm not the one who's run out of lies!" - Ministry
"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: bhjelle%carina.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
Subject: Re: The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:44:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6153

In article <1992Sep10.140036.10103@cs.ucla.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.203756.27712@cs.ucla.edu> Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi) writes:
>>
>>No it is not.  Try to find a bit more about what goes on in, say, the 
>>African countries where AIDS is spreading through the heterosexual 
>>population.  It is mostly through non-anal heterosexual sex.  In fact 
>>in the Third World, those countries in which anal sex exists currently 
>>have litle AIDS.  Let me say this just once: The spread of AIDS through
>>the Third World, and especially Africa, has little to do with anal sex; 
>>stop this dubious extrapolation from what you see in the West. 
>
>This extrapolation is quite rational.  Exactly what do you base your ideas
>on?  How have you gathered your data?  It is clear that the data in the US
>is quite  reliable, and it appears that HIV does not spread easily
>heterosexually.  I am interested in what study you are referring to and why
>you think this study is accurate.
>
Your personal judgement of what is "rational" is irrelevant in the
face of actual data. Good epidemiologic studies have been conducted
in Africa that show that anal intercourse is not a risk factor
for HIV there. I've posted some of the references before, and
don't intend to do it again. Look it up.

Brian
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Subject: WWN on Cuba camps
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Archive-Number: 6096
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:21:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.211325.645@cs.ucla.edu>, yazz@locus (Bob Yazz) writes:
>| It would be interesting to know how many people out there think like 
>| Steve Dyer

>Perhaps you have no idea what a standing joke the government of Cuba
>is in the world.  No one trusts a thing that government says at all.

The Cuban government says they treat them very well.  The WEEKLY WORLD
NEWS, a scurrilous rag that usually headlines Elvis sightings, or the
face on Neptune(!), or the fattest (200lb+) baby in the world, has a
different opinion.  It runs photos and stories giving an alarmingly 
opposite view.  (In contrast to the mere "we don't believe you" you
find on USENET.)  Pictures of stark prisons with coffin-sized cells,
and tales of HIV+ inmates subject to arbitrary medical experimentation
abound.

Between Cuba and WWN, I believe the WWN hands down.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: DMT
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 18:57:18 EDT

In article <g4vnasf@lynx.unm.edu> mulberry@triton.unm.edu () writes:
>Anybody know what the street name(s) for DMT (dimethytriptamine)
>is?

Depends on the street, of course.  Back in the 60s in california
it was called DMT.  More recently its been called "ecstasy," along
with several similar drugs  which also mess with the excitatory
neurotransmitters and can be neurotoxic in high enough doses.

--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
Xref: sparky sci.med:17347 sci.psychology:3767
From: JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.psychology
Subject: Re: NLP a psychoactive drug here?
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:29:47 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <1992Sep14.090931.6429@news.Hawaii.Edu>
lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  It seems like sci.med (and also
>sci.psychology) is full of people who consider themselves scientists but
>who regard science as a matter of authority rather than inquiry.
>. . . . . . . . . . .  But "I'm an authority and you're full of shit, so
>sit down and shut up" is not an answer that convinces me.

Gee, I have been reading these NLP posts off and on for a year now and I
have posted a few times.  My posts and the ones I have read have never said
anything like "I am an authroity and you are full of shit, so shut up and
sit down." (I presume you sit down when at the computer terminal anyway!)

What has been posted repeatedly to no avail is that:
   a) all the posts about NLP are anecdotal
   b) psychology, broadly defined, has a history of people
      making claims based on anecdotes which later turn out to be flawed
   c) the history of these anecdotally-based claims and their eventual
      debunking or confirming rely on scientific methods that are well known
   d) this is after all sci.psychology so why, if A,B, and C are true
      hasn't one study of NLP been produced as evidence.

Couple this with all the self-martyrdom that gets posted by NLP advocates
(see the above, for only the latest example), and this stuff is not
appropriate for a science posting.  Recently, some NLP-ers have
also said they are just too busy or ill equipped to study it and that
we should study it.  Well, we haven't (do you think we just lay around
waiting for experimental hypotheses?), and I doubt that we will.

But of more interest to me, at least, is the resistance (by NLP-ers) to study
the phenomenon they are pushing.  We all have different views of
epistemology, I am sure.  But, I would think that before someone posted
dozens of glowing recommendations for a phenomenon, they might test it
impartially.  It might only work with the diehard NLP fans, for all you
know.  Why not find out?  You don't need a PhD in psychology.  You need
common sense and perhaps one course in experimental psychology.  For all
the time spent posting about NLP, one could have learned all one needs to know
(for about $30 - the cost of a book; not $2500, incidentally, the cost of an
NLP class), done several studies, and posted some results.  Now that would
be more in the realm of sci.psychology than anecdotal testimonials.

If you think this sort of post equates with "I'm an authority so sit down
and shut up", then you really won't survive in the world of science.  It
is one thing to pull an authority play, another to ask for evidence according
to well established and respected standards of inquiry.  Note that I have not
said that NLP is bullshit, I have said prove that it is what you say it is.
Is that so threatening to you?
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Community Residence programs
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 13:03:57 EDT

In article <1992Sep11.191155.2423@cmcl2.nyu.edu> cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Nancy Cruz) writes:
>My sister (29 yrs old.) has had a mental illness since she was 20.
>The best living situation for her would be a community residence.  I
>have had great difficulty locating 'good' programs.  By 'good' I mean
>a program where the family is involved, competent and compassionate staff
>and above all a clientele similar to my sister (no prior drug abuse 
>or criminal records).  A place where she does not have to be concerned
>for her safety and meets people like herself.  I am willing to
>consider programs out of NYC (within reason).
>Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Community residences, like psychiatric hospitals, vary enormously
in the quality of programs they provide.  The best information about
programs in any given community is generally available from people who
have had to deal with local rescources - generally, the friends and families
of people with serious mental illness.  

The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) is an advocacy group
for families and others concerned with the wellbeing of people with
serious mental illness.  There are chapters just about everywhere; I
believe there are several in NYC.  Anyone in the poster's situation
should contact the local NAMI chapter, where valuable information about
local treatment resources, from the patients' and families'
perspective, can be got.   Another approach is to contact a place doing
research on psychiatric rehabilitation -  in NYC that would be Columbia
Presbyterian and the NYS Psychiatric Institute (among others) - and
seek their advice about community residence programs.  
Another important NYC area resource to keep in mind is the
Westchester Division of Cornell in White Plains, which might be able
to provide information about resources just outside NYC.


--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.research,soc.culture.jewish,soc.rights.human,misc.legal
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: 15 min phobia cures (was Re: Xanax)
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 16:45:08 EDT

In article <h0rn7xh.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>In response to a comment about NLP 15 minute phobia cures, Steve Dyer
>posts a flame without evidence.
>Can he provide evidence that there have not been such cures? I personally
>witnessed one myself, and Tony Robbins used to go around the country
>challenging therapists to bring him their worst patients. He was famous
>for the 15-minute cures, and to date has not been discredited.

What a bunch of baloney.  Most phobias are mild and never receive
treatment; those that do can sometimes be treated in a single session.
They often resolve spontaneously.  So we should be impressed?  Lourdes
is famous for miraculous cures also.  Has Tony Robbins written any
books?  Has he published any scientific articles?  Or should we believe
in NLP because this fellow can cure phobias in 15 minutes.  I've
treated phobias in a single session - no drugs, no psychoanalysis, and
no NLP.  So what?

--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: btbg1194@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bradley T Banko)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:39:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.152258.28377@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.185731.8543@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes:
>...
>lots of blather
>...
>
>>(Overall, psychotherapy has a lousy track record precisely because many
>>psychotherapists are also invested in denying parental abuse.  
>
>You know, there's something oddly pathological about this insistence that
>"parental abuse" is the source of all mental illness. It's as though there
>were a vast conspiracy of parents everywhere to abuse their children--and
>an even vaster conspiracy to cover up this "abuse". Yes, even the
>psychiatric profession is in the service of this evil conspiracy--nay, one
>can see that they are the very high priests of this cult of abuse and
>denial. 
>
>I guess part of the motivation to see the world this way comes from a deep
>desire (and need) to be able to claim title to the role of "victim". It's
>sooo "empowering".

>
following from the premise that belief in God and "good things in the world"
comes from the internalization of parental praise and care in early childhood,
"mental illness" and/or a "nontraditional" perspective on the ways of the world
clearly follows when you don't have Ozzie & Harriet for parents.

>Weird stuff.
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
>Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Brad Banko


-- 
Brad Banko;  Dept of Physics;  U of Illinois;  b-banko@uiuc.edu
=========================================================================
Tatiana Gutsu for President!                     73 de kb8cne @ n9lnq.il
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: 15 min phobia cures (was Re: Xanax)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:13:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Mark Kline evidently wasn't reading carefully when he responded that
the 15 minute phobia cure was a bunch of baloney and he had cured
phobias himself rather quickly.

When Robbins was John Grinder's assistant, he went around the
country with a standing offer that therapists could bring their
most intractable phobics to him. These were people who hadn't
been helped by conventional experts, in some cases after years
of therapy. Nevertheless they were cured in one session of about 15-45
minutes. In many cases the therapists were quite hostile to Robbins
and determined to "discredit" him by bringing really intractable
patients. Nevertheless they were cured, in some cases on a public
stage in front of a large audience of neutral witnesses.

David
Newsgroups: sci.med