HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sony@camelot.bradley.edu (David Lennie)
Subject: Re: Seeking "Color Bar" sound to light device.
Organization: Stevie Patrick's Home for the Underpriveleged
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:26:03 GMT

In <22JAN199310541895@zeus.tamu.edu> plg3723@zeus.tamu.edu (Hello there) writes:

>I occasionaly get a catalog that sells all kinds of surplus equipment and
>nifty electronic gadgets from all over the place.  I think the name of the
>catalog was something like "American surplus and scientific".  It is always
>printed on newsprint, and usually contains 80-100 pages.  The writters of
>the descriptions of the products usually use a humorous tone towards the
>stuff they sell.  I don't have a copy with me, and can't find one.  However,
>I know the last catalog had a device that Steve is describing, although
>it was a 120vac version.  The price, I belive, was under $20.  Does anyone
>get this catalog?  If I can get the address, I'll post it.  I have ordered
>from these people before, and have had no problems with them.


American Science and Surplus
"Incredible stuff, unbelievable prices!"
601 Linden Place
Evanston, IL 60202
(708) 475-8440

a very cool company indeed.  i've gotten their catalogs for years.
they used to be called "JerryCo" but changed their name for whatever
reason a few years ago.  i too have ordered many things from their
catalog with no problems.  i've always wanted to go visit their
warehouse (they strongly recommend it in the catalog) but never got
around to it.

dave lennie
bradley university
peoria, il
From: sture@lulea.trab.se (Sture Jonsson)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:04:57 GMT
Organization: Telia Research AB, Aurorum 6, 951 75 Lulea, Sweden
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 + PL8]

jj, still grouchy and out of sorts (jj@alice.att.com) wrote:
: In article <5584@othmar.lulea.trab.se> sture@lulea.trab.se (Sture Jonsson) writes:

: >I suppose it is also possible to refute the claims that EXISTING digital
: >products aimed at the home-market sound good since the THEORIES about digital
: >audio processing says that digital means less distorsion than analog.
: Well, one can try.  I don't see what THEORIES have to do with it,
: just try the music on people.  Unfortunatley for your point,
: a lot of people LIKE it.

And unfortunately for your point, a lot of people DISLIKE it. But of course,
that's just because they prefer distorsion ? Hm.....

And about theories. As I said later in the article, many people use the theories
to prove that their low-end CD player is better than any high-end turntable
because "digital is better than analog". When they are confronted with the
music some quickly change their mind. When they are confronted with the music
from a High-End CD player being thrashed by the music from a low-end turntable
ever more people change their mind. As I also said, recently the high-end CD:s
are starting to thrash the low, mid and on some discs even the high-end turn-
tables. This is a thing I welcome, since there are many advantages with CD:s
(except the price).

But the "fact" remains: Theory and implementation do often differ.

: >products, not theory) it is not only 'preference'. If it was preference, why
: >is it that the digital sound has (in my ears) improved so much ? 

: Well, curiously enough, at least some smart people are distorting what
: they record on the CD.

I hope this is not the 'Return of the "CD sound is so good it sounds
bad"' marketing hype ? (I'm not accusing you of being a marketing buff, I just
don't find a better word in my poor english vocabulary)

As a matter of fact I've heard this also (about distorting the sound) and....
it seems to me there is something wrong here. Either it is the digital products
or the recording techniques. To me as a music and HiFi consumer, the reasons
are not really interesting (or at least should not be) as long as I get the
best possible result at home. Best possible result meaning the music repro-
duction that resembles live music the most.

I'd like to ask these people if they also attempt to distort live sound in an
audiotorium, and if not, why they distort the recorded sound ?

But since also old discs (bought by me back in '84 when I bought my first CD
player; discs I stopped using in '86 when I sold my third CD player) sound
better with new players, how did they get the distorsion onto existing discs ?

: Yep. Uh, huh.  Now, if "distortion sounds better", so  be it,
: but don't blame the messenger.

If "distorsion sounds better" than 'pure perfect sound forever' I'd say there
is something wrong, with the products and techniques.

LISTEN and enjoy,
Sture
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: Dave Dal Farra <gpz750@bnr.ca>
Subject: Re: Preamp and Amp
X-Xxdate: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:46:13 GMT
Organization: BNR Ltd.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:36:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.053532.18312@trl.oz.au> Chris O'Neill,
c.oneill@trl.oz.au writes:
>Hence valve amps and transistor amps with the same distortion cannot be
>compared (unless the distortion is zero) because the distortion has different
>properties with each type of amp.  i.e. we have not yet developed a
>quantitative measure of the aspect of distortion that is objectionable.  Hence
>in your statement above that transistors measure 'perfectly', the problem is
>that the wrong measure is used.

No shit Sherlock, that's my point!!  I was making a comparison between
the 50's scenario and the one today with LP vs. CD.  The measurements
don't tell the story and history has illustrated this!!!  Duuhhh!!!!!!!

And the statement that you can't compare tube and transistor amp
distortion results (as one generates predominately 2nd order,
the other much more odd order components) just backs up my argument.

There is much more info we need to quantize before we can take 
objective data as Gospel.

Dave Dal Farra
BNR Ottawa,
Audio and Acoustics Group
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: brown@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.carl.brown)
Subject: Re: New Yamaha A/V Receivers
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:48:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.175111.14756@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, stud1b53@bnr.ca (Anshu Prasad) writes:
>   I've read a few posts lately (including my own :-) requesting
> info on the new Yamaha A/V Receivers and Integrated Amplifiers.
> I managed to get some sketchy details, so I thought I'd share
> them.  Please note that this info is being transcribed from 
> memory so there may be errors.
> 
> DSP-A1000 : Not discontinued.  Remains as is.
> 
> DSP-A2070 : New top-of-the-line unit.
>             Seven channel amp (same power as A1000??).
>             Boasts "three times as much DSP power as the A1000"
>             using a new DSP chip.
>             They claim better DSP programs with increased channel
>             separation etc, etc.
>             I hope it's all they say it is considering the hefty 
>             $2000 US price tag.
> 
>   If anyone knows more about these units, please email, especially
> if any of my info is incorrect.  The local dealer predicts availability
> of the new units in late February or early March.  Will they be
> available sooner in the US?
> 

     Pricing and availability info from Shopper's Advantage.
The DSPA1000 is $1194 delivered.  The DSPA2070, available February 28th,
will be $1524 delivered (price subject to change).

John Carl Brown
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:30:15 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1993Jan25.203551.7856@bmerh85.bnr.ca> shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally) writes:
> Thats why artists started taking an interest in reissues - the record
> companies didn't care about shipping a quality product. Thats why nowadays
> you'll see more reissues where the artists were involved in finding 
> the master, restoring the quality, and lovingly mastering them.

Greg Ladyani is credited as having done the remastering of Jackson
Browne's ``The Pretender'' album.  He is now stuck with explaining how
the first track got left to run until the tape finished rather than
being faded.  It's quite an impressive mistake...given that he's
Browne's default engineer and often co-producer.

I'm moderately convinced that a mess has been made of Springsteen's
``Darkness on the Edge of Town'' on CD as well.    Leaving aside that
they didn't take the opportunity to correct the lyrics of ``Streets of
Fire'', the fade at the end of ``Prove it all Night'' sounds wrong.
There's appalling noise on ``Racing in the Street'' but that's on the
vinyl as well...

ian
From: cmh@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.M. Hicks)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: D to A
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:33:04 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis) writes:

>Some sales guy selling up to $7000 CD players said that the good ones
>spin at more exactly correct rates.  I guess he means his would have
>less "wow" and flutter.

It is quite possible that different CD players run at slightly different 
rates, due to inaccuracies in the master timing clock. This will, however
lead to a constant speed/pitch error, not wow or flutter, which are varying
speed errors. The tolerances on crystals are so small, I doubt that anyone
would notice in normal use.

>But, doesn't a CD work synchronously?  Doesn't the chip set read bits
>serially off the disk and at specific regular times pass the value of
>the current 16 bits to the D to A converter?  Isn't it true that, as long
>as all of the bits are read in by the next 1/44.1k seconds, that it doesn't
>matter if the disk spins a little faster or slower?

This is basically true - the really critical point is clock jitter at the
DAC clock pin - see other posts for lots of flames, and a few good points :-)

>Someone please tell me that a CD doesn't read 16 bits (not counting parity,
>time or track info) and then send the data to the converter regardless of how
>much time has passed since the last data was sent. I mean, if the disk stopped
>after, say, bit 14, would there be no analog signal coming out of the player
>until it got to its next 2 bits??  ( <-- sarcasm)  If this was true, you
>could use your finger for pitch on a CD (if you could touch the spinning disk)

The data on the disc is very jumbled up - the 16 bits for a particular sample
are spread over a significant length of track to help the error correction.
Additionally, if the player detects a duff sample it will interpolate. This
way, gaps in the sound are kept to a minimum. A good player will still play
a disc that has a 2mm wide saw cut from the centre to the edge...!

Touching the disc puts the disc rotation out of sync with the master clock and
the sound stops. The way vary-speed is done on some pro CD players is to
adjust the frequency of the master clock. This way the disc, digital
electronics and DAC all run at a slightly different frequency. Variations of
+/- 10% are easily possible this way.

Christopher Hicks
--
 ==============================================================================
 Christopher Hicks    |    If it doesn't fit...
 cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng    |                        ...you need a bigger hammer.
 ==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again (was Re: Preamp and Amp)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:40:04 GMT

stuartw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Stuart Woolford) writes:
[....]
: Tell me, people, what kind on channel seperation can ANY ( at ANY price )
: practical LP system get ??. I will not mention the figures that I have
: heard, but they are not impresive, and many 10's of db below that of
: even quite cheap CD.
: 
: A common method of 'widening' a sterio image is to add an amount of each
: channel to the other, often phase shifted. SOME people seem to like the
: effect ( it is normally found on VERY cheap tape decks.. ), but it
: could not be considered even medium-fi.
: 
: Perhaps you can see why I laugh when I read of people who find the 'sterio
: image' of LP systems much more 'transparent' and 'detailed' than that
: of CD.

You can only laugh if a) you have heard a high quality turntable setup
and b) still found its imaging to be 'laughable'. Numbers by
themselves mean zilch.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kong@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kong Kritayakirana)
Subject: Re: Thiele cs2.2 opinions wanted...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:15:10 GMT

>But apparently Bose, Inc. has a
>trademark on decimal points, at least when used for speaker names.

Is this possible?

:)

Kong Kritayakirana
From: droberts@aquila.astro.uiuc.edu (Doug Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Speaker recommendations
Summary: Comments on speakers
Keywords: speakers, audio
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:03:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.C1Gv5I.7o6
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Doug Roberts
droberts@sirius.astro.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jlo@hfglobe.intel.com (Jeffrey Lo)
Subject: Re: Digital critics - sampling argument is nonsense
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:30:44 GMT

zellers@22_clancy.manassas.ibm.com (Cevin M Zellers) writes:

>I recently witnessed another case of the analog sentimentalist trying
>to use the 'sampling' argument to lodge a complaint against Digital.

>It was MTV, with they're nifty diagrams showing how sampled digital sound
>loses information because of the 'choppy' digital waveform. Unfortunately,
>critics are pressing this argument and misleading the public, due to their
>ignorance of the Nyquist Sampling theorem. All of you digital skeptics, 
>please note that CD's capture ALL frequencies up to 44.5 KHz, reproducing
>them faithfully (butter than vinyl, I argue). Frequencies above 44.5 KHz
>don't matter, that's far above the threshold of hearing anyway :)

I saw this segment too!  They had interviews of three people who did not
like digital spliced together.  One was a recording engineer or producer
or something who I didn't recognize so I won't pick on him.  The other
two were Peter Gabriel and Neil Young.

Peter Gabriel said that at first he was fully taken in by the idea of
digital audio and then he saw the light and came back to analog.
Let's try a little experiment.  Listen to his Security album (full
digital), and his latest album, Us (presumably analog).  Although
Security is not the best sounding album I've heard, it's quite good.
Us on the other hand, sounds like the band was buried in a mud bog
with a thick blanket over it.  It sounds bad wether it is coming out
of your TV or B&W 801s.  This makes me distrust his sonic opinions.

Neil Young.  Don't even get me started.  The man who says digital
recording is a royal waste of money wouldn't know a good recording
if he was pissing on it (to paraphrase Jack Nicholson).  He says
that a vinyl pressing of his "Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere" (1969)
sounds better than the CD.  The reason for this is that you need
lousy equipment to round off all the distortion in his recordings.
Recordings as bad as his sound better off of a cassette played through
a PA rather than a CD through Krells and Wilsons.

Don't get me wrong here, I like both of their music.  I just think
that they need to listen to some well recorded CDs.  LPs may indeed
sound better than CDs, but not for the reasons they are giving.
Also, it's just a guess here but I don't think they studied
signal processing.  :)

Jeff Lo
jlo@hfglobe.intel.com
From: kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:27:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Digital critics - sampling argument is nonsense
Message-ID: <1190791@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio

In rec.audio, shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:


> I just dislike the bogus reasons and unfair trouncing of digital
> that often follows. 

And in the very next sentence trounces analog with a bogus reason.

> Chances are that most analog appeal comes from
> euphonius distortions that could be simulated in digital if anyone wanted
> to try.


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dnaor@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dalit Naor)
Subject: FOR SALE - Sterero system and CD-player
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 23:43:20 GMT


 **********     For Sale     ***********

   Fisher Stereo system; includes:
   * speakers
   * radio
   * double-deck cassette tape
   * turn-table
                            ----  $60.


   Magnavox CD-Player       ----  $70.


   If interested, reply to dnaor@cmgm.stanford.edu
   or call (415) 322-4072, (415) 723-5976 (Dalit).
From: cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: MUSIC of THE DIVINE MASTERS
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:17:18 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


	[Inane blather deleted]

	I would like to very simply suggest that if the original
poster of this . . . article had any respect for what he was saying
and for the people that he was saying it to, he would KEEP THE POST IN
THE APPROPRIATE NEWSGROUPS. (Pardon my shouting.)

	There's quite enough religion in wreck.audio as it is.

						-Cal
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Lott          "Oh, I see-- I thought 'no' meant 'spoon'!" --Dan
Email me, baby!   cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu   cjl1@midway.uchicago.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pmw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Po-min Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Sony CFD-757 vs.Panasonic RX-DS45. Which is better?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:25:07 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: maelstrom.berkeley.edu


Has anyone had any experience with either of the two stereo systems mentioned
above?  Would like to hear recommendations/problems with either one, as I am
trying to decide which one to buy.  All comments are greatly appreciated.
Also, please email as I don't read this newsgroup too often.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott)
Subject: Speaker Opinions Wanted
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:30:23 GMT

Hi, folks!

	Well, its about that time to get a pair of speakers to match my
set of Parasound seperates. I am interested in a pair that is around $500
for the initial permutation of the system. I am flexible on price.

	These speakers will be driven with a Denon DCD-620 that feeds a
set of Parasound seperates: the HCA-500 50wpc amp, and the P/FET-900II
preamp. My listening tastes include a great deal of "alternative" music,
along with a smattering of pop, reggae, and classical music. A real grab
bag, basically.

	My current speakers are a set of (dare I say it?) Bose *bookshelf*
speakers. Not the '01' series, not the '.2' series, and not the AM-5 or 7
accoustimass series. They are a pair of normal bookshelf speakers with a
1" tweeters and ported 6-1/2" woofers.

	My friendly local dealer carries the following brands, among
others: NHT, Celesition, Alon, and Energy. I heard the little Celestions
while in the process of purchasing the Parasound stuff, and was very
favorably impressed. The price is very reasonable, as well. My main
concern is that they are a bit thin on the bass, but I can live with that
as long as they can get the midrange right.

	Any comments on the above brands or any others that you feel are
worth consideration would be appreciated. I plan to go visit the store
next weekend.

						Thanks,

						-Cal
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Lott          "Oh, I see-- I thought 'no' meant 'spoon'!" --Dan
Email me, baby!   cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu   cjl1@midway.uchicago.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sh09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEVEN HIGGINS)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Hafler Amps
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:02:03 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>I am now interested in the Hafler brand. The 9180 or 9300 seem like good
>amps. I have read a Stereo Review article on the 9300. The seven year
>warranty also makes this brand attractive. Does anybody have any
>experience or heard anything about Hafler stuff? Is Hafler a good brand?
>I would appreciate any info.
>
>BTW - I need a 100-150 wpc amp for my NHT 1.8 speakers. I don't have a
> preamp yet. I like to listen to soft rock, heavy metal, and classical
> (Mozart's piano concerti, Beethoven, etc.).

    Dennis,

    I don't know about the 9180 or 9300, however I built a Hafler DH220 from a
    kit when I was an undergrad.  I was pretty happy with it, it sounded
    pretty nice.  The only drawbacks I remember was that it ran pretty hot (it
    had MOSFET outputs) and it went through a couple of power switches.  On
    the other hand, just for fun I once drove 7 speakers off of it.  (two pair
    of normal speakers, and a sub/sat system).  It didn't phase it a bit.  It
    wasn't _LEFT_ that way for long, my roommates and I just wanted to see if
    it could do it.


    
-- 
~Steve
sh09@lehigh.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: brian@navaho.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: Re: Pro defeats Car Alarm - should I post how?
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:48:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.120726@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>
> I visited my local dealer yesterday and he told me that a pro-theif hit
> one of his other customers.
>
> It was a Jeep Cherokee and hardly any damage was done in the removal of
> about $3000 worth of gear.  They didn't break any windows or tear up 
> major chunks of interior. They cut the glass and did an installation 
> job in reverse. They knew what they were doing.  
>
> But HOW they got past the alarm was a shock, literally.  I would like 
> to post the details of what the dealer said but I'm leary of drawing 
> flames for posting a "how-to" primer.  Also, it kinda sounds weird
> too, so I don't want to be flamed for posting BS, either. 
>
> Should I?
>
>

Judging by the pun you made, I'd guess that this is one of two different
methods that were discussed here about 4 months ago.  J.C. Hamlin mentioned
several methods that could be used to guard against this.  Go ahead and 
post the method used.  It'll give us all something to talk about for a week
or so.

			   Brian L. Gentry
		      (brian@sioux.eel.ufl.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: Greg_Kaisen@QM.CIS.YALE.EDU (Greg Kaisen)
Subject: Car Audio Magazines -- FAQ???
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:45:51 GMT

Hi all,
       from time to time I see references to various Car Audio magazines, 
which I've never even heard of.  In my area, the only two available (or that 
I've seen at various news stands) are "Car Audio & Electronics" and "Car 
Stereo Review"  I wondered first:  if there was ever a FAQ posted here 
regarding magazines, and second: if not, could we develop one?
I imagine it looking very much like the "Mail Order List" FAQ that was just 
posted here.  I would like the FAQ to include:

1) Magazine name
2) Publication frequency
3) Subscription cost
4) Subscription address (and phone # if available)
5) Readers comments (what type of regular features, review quality, etc.)

Do others out there feel this would be useful?  I'd be happy to compile the 
FAQ if I get enough replies.

-Thanks !!
        
                           Greg Kaisen

          Internet: Greg_Kaisen@Yccatsmtp.Ycc.Yale.Edu
        
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car