HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Juan Gonzales (40+ homers before age 23)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 14:40:02 GMT

In article <5773@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>
>It seems that not long ago it was fairly common to see 17, 18 and 19 year
>old kids playing at the major league level.  Now a days it's a rarity.
>With guys like Yount starting their careers at 18 and playing 19 or more 
>full seasons to reach their various career highs (hit, hrs sbs whatever)
>is it realistic to expect the guys that come up today at 21, 22 or 23 years
>of age to be able to approach the career numbers of the older players.

The *really* good ones (Griffey, Gonzalez, Thomas) still come up
pretty early.  (Though Thomas should *certainly* have been brought up
by the start of 1990.)

>If you assume that most ball players aren't going to go past age 40 the 
>guy that starts in the majors at 18 has a huge advantage over the guy that
>doesn't start until age 24 when it comes to putting up career numbers.

True.  Then again, sports medicine is better than it used to be.  And
we have the DH.  There are many factors involved...

>How old wer Ruth, and Arron when they started?

Ruth had only 20 HR in the five seasons before 1919.  (He started as a
pitcher, and HRs didn't really start popping until 1920.)  He was 24
for the 1919 season.

Aaron started young, and played forever.  He was 20 his first season.

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: The trouble with Angels...
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 14:49:00 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

/ In article <92255.57644.6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6669030@LMSC5.IS.L
/>I watched the Angels recently in a Series against Oakland, and I cam to
/>the following conclusion:
/>
/>The California Angels are the most inept, punchless, wimpy, team in the majors
/
/I wouldn't go as far to say that they are inept and wimpy, but they are
/punchless all right.
/>
/>Who let them in this league?  And how on earth have they managed 60+ wins?
/>Mr. Lu from Stanford, could you clue me in on some of this?
/
/Some reasons:
/
/Jim Abbott
/Mark Langston
/Julio Valera
/Joe Grahe
/Bryan Harvey
/Mark Eichhorn (gone)
/Steve Frey
/
/Basically, the Angels have a respectable pitching staff, and that's it.
/
/==============================================================================
/GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
/==============================================================================
/Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)

Just when I open my big mouth about the Angels....they go out and pound the
Twins (8-0)  I will retract most of what I said.  They do have an decent
pitching staff.  They aren't wimpy....just a bit punchless.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy K.                                 |      |\/\/\/|
6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM       |      |      |
                                         |      |      |
A play I want to hear.....               |      | (o)(o)
"Grounder back to the box, Drabek to     |      C      _)
Grebeck to Hrbek....double play!"        |       | ,___|
                                         |       |   /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tmavor@earthview.cms.udel.edu (Timothy Mavor)
Subject: Re: Ripken's Season
Reply-To: tmavor@earthview.cms.udel.edu
Organization: Marine Studies, University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:08:34 GMT

tedward@cs.cornell.edu writes:

>BATTERS         BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS
>RIPKEN,C 9/6  .243  .344  .321 136 535  62 130 184 22  1 10  60  58  43  4  1
>RIPKEN,C 6/28 .289  .449  .369  74 287  41  83 129 14  1 10  38  34  22  2  1
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>difference    .190  .221  .265  62 248  21  47  55  8  0  0  22  24  21  2  0


Along the same lines are the stats Valentine has provided.....

I was watching the Orioles a few nites ago on HTS, where this interesting tidbit
came out:

Cal has had two lengthy hitting streaks close together this season (16 games and 17 
games?), which basically carried him from mid May to the end of June (the announcers
gave the exact dates of the streaks, etc).  If we exclude those hitting streaks, he
is batting less than .200 for rest of the time. 

I don't believe he can do any worse in Sept this year!  

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Mavor		   |  "I am known by many names.......
College of Marine Studies  |   some call me.........Tim."
Univ. of Delaware	   |    
Newark Campus   	   |  "You know much that is hidden, O' Tim!"
tmavor@pandora.cms.udel.edu|  	Monty Python and the Holy Grail	---------------------------------------------------------------------
 


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Cal Eldred, ROY candidate?!
Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:53:47 GMT

   Has anyone else thought of this? What about rookie pitcher of the year?
   I thought Fleming would be a shoo-in, but when you look at the stats you
   have to think of Eldred.

   Fleming is 15-8 with about a 3.30 ERA (?) and Eldred is 7-1 with a 1.30
   ERA. What if Fleming end up about 16-10 with a mid-3 ERA, while Eldred
   is 10-2 with a mid-1 ERA? And what influence will it have if the Brewers
   stay in the division race til the end with Eldred getting a couple big
   wins?

   Although I still think Fleming deserves it (ROY for pitchers, Listach is
   the ROY in a landslide), Eldred has come out of nowhere to make it       
   interesting. Especially if he keeps up his excellent pitching and Fleming
   falters a little.

   So what does everyone think?

   --salty

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:13:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.055113.22941@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>>Uh, Nelson, we were comparing a couple of platoon players (Alou and Sanders)
>>to an everyday player (Karros). I *DID* point out the rather large park effect
>>difference, which you have yet to address; Riverfront is one of the BEST 
>>hitters' parks, Dodger Stadium one of the worst, in the major leagues. But, 
>
>True, although Riverfront is not the best offensive park overall, just
>the best HR/SLG park. 

"one of" is what I said. It is 3rd overall, behind Wrigley and Altanta in
terms of runs scored, which is the best single indicator.

> And Olympic is almost as bad as Chavez.

Not really even that close. Olympic is a middle-of-the-pack park. Dodger
Stadium is 4th worst.

>>I will address your point; How many games did Hoiles help his team win when 
>>he was on the DL? 
>
>More than Pena did over the same time period. 

Really? Those zero hits, and zero walks must really have boosted the Orioles'
offense.

>>Again, if you ain't playing, you ain't contributing.

>Which is better than being a detriment.  

Uh, if the guy behind you is worse than you are, you are helping your team.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: Vincent Resigns...
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:47:25 GMT

kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:

>The local NBC affiliate just reported that Fay Vincent tendered his resignation
>as Commissioner of Baseball effective immediately.  I'll leave details to the
>bastards who get ESPN...PTTTHHHHH! on you...
					
I guess this means that the commissioner will now become an OFFICIALLY 
licensed puppet of the Major League owners.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			  |	"Hockey must be a great game to
CLARKSON '95			  |       survive what the NHL has done	
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU  | 	 to it."
rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact	  |    ---Howard Baldwin, Penguins owner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
         CONGRATS TO 1992 CALDER CUP CHAMPION ADIRONDACK RED WINGS!!
                       (also: 1981, 1986, 1989)
 		          			

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (neil covey)
Subject: Dodgers--Ojeda and Big early leads
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:23:05 GMT

I was "lucky" enough to catch the Dodger game with Atlanta Tuesday and
had an ugly presentiment that once the Dodgers got the 4-1 lead the game
was lost.  Why? Because Ojeda was pitching.  Although I don't have any
statistics I seem to recall numerous games Ojeda lost control of after
he was staked to a good early lead--I particularly remember a game last
year where he lost a big lead after hitting a 3-run homer.  Anyone out
there in LA LA land with statistics to back up my feeling.  What's the
Dodger record after Ojeda is staked to a 3-run lead or larger before the
4th inning?
From: barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Juan Gonzales (40+ homers before age 23)
Summary: Max AB,IP before age 20
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:17:17 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

>In article <5773@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>>It seems that not long ago it was fairly common to see 17, 18 and 19 year
>>old kids playing at the major league level.  Now a days it's a rarity.

Max AB before age 20 (full seasons only)   Max IP before age 20

Phil Cavarretta       1068              Monte Ward              921
Robin Yount            902              Amos Rusie              773.2
Ed Kranepool           699              Bob Feller              488.1
Sibby Sisti            674              Pete Convey             481
Mel Ott                658              Pete Schneider          420
Buddy Lewis            629              John Healy              419.2
Bob Kennedy            614              Lev Shreve              419.2
Milt Scott             591              Larry Dierker           342.2 
Al Kaline              532              Willie McGill           319.2
George Davis           526              Chief Bender            270

Gooden is 13th on the list with 218.  Scott, Convey, Healy, and
Shreve played in the 1880's.  Davis and McGill played in the 1890's,
and Schneider in the 1910 decade.  Lewis's career was cut short by WWII.

My friends in the Pacific Ghost League have spent many hours developing
Sibby Sisti puns.
---------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Kenny Rogers (was Re: THE trade... A ranger fan's thoughts..
Keywords: eat more ranger moose
Organization: Paul Spoljaric mean-and-nasty club
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:46:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.210018.23744@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert 'Aurelio' Lopez) writes:
>
>Egad, man!  Kenny Rogers a better closer?????  No, no, the Rangers struggled
>ALL YEAR while Russell was out.  He might have been pumped up, but then as
>now, he lets 99.99999% of inherited runners score.  That's no closer.

  That reminds me. Just out of curiosity, who has the most grand slams this 
year? No, it can't be a hitter, because Kenny Rogers and Mike Schooler have
been playing one-upmanship with the grand salami all year. I think Schooler
has a good lead at this point, but I'm not sure. 

  On a related topic, who should we nominate for the 'Barry Jones memorial 
vulture boy award' (tm) this year? Rogers is notorious for having given up a 
few slams while only being charged for the batter; he's done a great job of 
'vulturing' the previous pitcher. (Unfortunately for my fantasy team,
Schooler insists in putting on the baserunners for his slams himself.) In the
NL, where I have the front four of the Montreal rotation, I'd like to
nominate Jeff Fassero as the pitching version of Joe Carter, logging innings 
and a decent ERA at the expense of his pitching teammates. Every time Hill, 
Martinez, Gardner and Nabholz are replaced by Fassero or Wetteland, I cringe.
Actually Wetteland's had some brilliant streaks, he just seems to have this 
nasty habit of giving up dingers to blow Hill's lead. 

  Unfortunately, Jones can't be eligible for his own award, but he'd qualify 
wonderfully, as would Skippy Belinda and Randy Myers. Chuck Crim, Rogers, Les
Lancaster and Reardon are all wonderful candidates in the AL (Reardon's now 
servin' em up in Hotlanta.) I'm sure we can find more, but all I want to know
at this point is WHO THE HELL PAID FOR STAN BELINDA'S FOUR MONTH VACATION TO 
IRKUTSK??? 

  Between getting vultured by Fassero and having to spend sleepless nights
wishing Mike Schooler would get a day job, I don't know how my team's in
second place. I thought Dibble, Ward and Belinda would be a *great* bullpen 
and tacked on Schooler as a warm body for the Saves. Oops. Montreal's four 
horsemen and Chris Bosio off the waiver wire have helped, though, as had Mike
Harkey until he had to attempt a triple axle at Wrigley Field. Now, if
anyone's seen Cal Ripken's and/or Ron Gant's bats, would you PLEEZE return 
them already? And to think I picked up Chris Donnels a little over a month 
ago when I wanted to (and should have) pick up Roberto Hernandez. 

  Sigh. 
 
-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch            kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu 
"Blue Jays - break my heart again in '92"    Roberto Hernandez throws peas  
"I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me
   MORE of a selective human" - Joe Average, baseball fan and media puppet
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Date: 9 Sep 1992 18:44:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous

In article 3728@menudo.uh.edu, chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
%>In article <37806@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes: 
%
%> 
%> btw, if HBP includes no skill, how come Ron Hunt/Don Baylor
%> always led in the category?  
%> 
%
%Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
%out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
%reaching base a few more times.  There was a rash of people injured earlier this year while being hit
%by pitches, Larkin comes to mind immediately.  Are you saying you think a team would perform
%better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 
%
%Sam

Generally I would agree with you, Sam, but having watched Baylor play a few
games at Fenway and then at Oakland (okay, *very* few games at Oakland), I'd
have to say that he had the HBP down as an art form more than anybody else
I have ever seen.  I don't know if he ever got injured getting plunked, but
every (yes, *every*) time I saw him get hit, he turned his shoulder into the
pitch and it bounced harmlessly off his well-padded arm.  And he would grin
afterward!  I definitely consider it a skill the way Baylor did it.

-todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: An Old Joke
Organization: Our Lady of the Stand-Up Triple
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:38:16 GMT

Here's an old joke with a baseball twist that I picked-up whilst lurking
around talk.bizarre.

From: benth@microsoft.com (Ben):

A man walked into a bar with his dog, and told the bartender,
"I've got a talking dog. Normally, bartenders buy us a couple of
drinks when they hear that." The bartender replied, "Get the hell 
out of here! I don't have time for that sort of crap!" The man said,
"Wait, I'll prove it: Fido, what do people put on top of a house?"

The dog scratched behind his left ear, and said "Normally some
sort of composite shingle, but  in some areas cedar shakes are 
used, though they can be a fire hazard."

"Very good. Now, what is it called when a golfer hits his ball out
of bounds?"

The dog looked up from licking his testicles. "A horrible error, I 
would assume. I believe that if the ball is not found, a new one
is dropped, and a penalty stroke is taken."

"That's great! Now, the last one: Who was the greatest baseball
player of all time?"

The dog thought for a moment, and replied, "That's a pretty open
question. There have been some wonderful fielders, pitchers and
batters who have brought their own special magic to the game, but
I think the best all around player to capture the hearts of America
was George Herman "Babe" Ruth."

The bartender growled, leaped over the bar, and threw the man 
and his dog out into the street. Lying on the ground, the dog shook 
his head from side to side and said, "Do you think maybe I should 
have said DiMaggio?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dodgers Outdo Themselves -- Seven Errors!
Date: 12 Sep 1992 07:46:43 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

The Dodgers made a team high 7 errors last night, 3 by Jose
Offerman.  Candiotti was the principal victim of the
lack of defense, although he also allowed a lot of hits
and helped the Giants with a couple of walks in the second
as well.  The Giants opened up a commanding lead and Larry
Carter cruised for 7 innings to earn his first victory.

The final score was Giants 7, Dodgers 3.  The Giants banged
out 12 hits while the hapless Dodgers managed just 8.  One
of those hits was a ninth inning solo homer by Billy Ashley, 
his second.

					Dodger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Collusion or Sanity?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:19:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.235110.18309@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.214941.11226@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> hymowitz@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!) writes:
>>
>>i almost wonder if, in the near future, we're going to see some baseball
>>owners filing chapter 11, and slicing a 'zero' off the end of every salary.
>
>You gotta wonder why the owners are so paranoid about releasing their
>books.  Maybe the figures would show that they really are making more
>money than they admit to?

Reportedly, the Twins opened their books to Puckett's agent. The Twins aren't
claiming to lose money this year, though. They simply claim they can't spend
as much to keep him as some other teams might.

>Which is why they'll never file for bankruptcy.  Their records
>would then be public.

Actually, most (not all) teams are in a position to make money if they SELL
the team, though they might be losing money if they retain the team.

>We'll see.  They are still setting new attendance records most every
>year.  And the new TV contract hasn't been negotiated yet.  Might even

This year, attendance, overall, is down. While ESPN might give the same overall
contract, the networks will probably trim their offer.

>turn out to be *more* money, if they actually show some games
>occasionally...

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do.
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:05:24 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <BuE2v4.7s5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan) writes:
>All of these responders forget the claims that Gonzalez will hit 50+ HRs
>for about 7 straight years and even hit 60 Hrs in a season.
>
>Seems a LOT easier to walk 100 times than hit 60 HRs .

For the "average" player?  Perhaps.  For Gonzalez?  I don't think so.
Unless he totally reworks his approach to hitting (which is unlikely
at the major league level), he will continue to walk at an abysmal
rate.  But that's okay by me, as long as he continues to hit 40+ HR
per year (and doesn't start bitching that he deserves an MVP).

Gonzalez is 2/3 of the way to 60 HR this season.  He's not even half
way to 100 BB!

>Question: Why do I get 10 posts about 100 walks and 
>	  only 1 person (me) questions 60 HRs in a season?

It's a *toy*!  None of us take it particularly seriously.  Why bother
questioning the 60 HR season?  He has as good a chance as anybody, but
it isn't a particularly great chance...

If you had said "I have this toy, and I know it doesn't work very well
on Gonzalez-type hitters, but it says he will get 100 BB one year", I
wouldn't have bothered to respond.  Instead you started mumbling
something about Respect, and how any good power hitter will draw
100-150 BB per year.

It was a stupid comment.  Stop whining.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: MLB Magic Numbers for Wed, Sep 09th, 1992
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:56:31 GMT

>
>     MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 09, 1992

>Los Angeles Dodgers	 EL

>Seattle Mariners	 EL		      

SEE YA

WOULDNT WANNA BE YA


hahahahahahahaha
no hostility toward the mariners, just the dodgers.....


--
LCDR Robert Williams Dobson
Head, Super-Secret Mearness of Viscosity Lab and Beauracracy
Disclaimer: I speak EXPLICITLY for the Navy. Everything I say has
been approved by higher-ups.    Internet:rwd4f@h00ters.tailhook.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 1Bs
Organization: NSSL
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:04:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.015853.16383@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:
>NATIONAL LEAGUE
>Fred McGriff, San Diego	9.13
[11 players and NL average deleted]
>Andres Galarraga, St. Louis	3.09

Andres did not play over the weekend against the Giants.  It's possible that
this may mark the end of the Galarraga Watch.  Andres now has to hit .500 
to reach .300 for the season and .283 the rest of the way to get to .250.  The
prospect of limited ABs in September for Andres is depressing.  (Actually, it's
not as depressing as the thought of why there weren't limited ABs for Andres
in June, July, or August, but that's a cat of a different color.)  My life may 
have no meaning now.  Ah, well, it's September, which means it's time for the
Cal Ripken Watch (tm).  So far, .130/.130/.167 (B/S/O) in 5 games.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 6 September)  .242 BA  .376 SLG  .279 OBA
27 H from .300  4 H from .250  8 HBP  9 BB