HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brett@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Brett K. Carver)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Bumped Bumpers!
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:35:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA

In ca.driving, rajeev@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Rajeev Gupta) writes:
> 	2) You bump into the other car's fender, and there was no way
> 	   you could have stopped in time to avoid that.
>
> Case 2 is particularly interesting since neither party can be stamped
> "guilty" in an obvious fashion.  Also this case occurs often on freeways
> (e.g. in pile-ups).

Sorry, not true.  You are responsible for following at a safe distance
(ie, far enough back that you can stop in time).  If you hit someone then
you obviouslly wern't following at a safe distance so it's your fault, period.

Yes, I know about this from personal experience (although about 20 years ago).

Your only way out at that point is if you couldn't tell they were stopping
(as in my case, the guy had faulty brake lights).  The reason why they were
stopping didn't seem to matter.

The fact that people follow too close (especially on freeways) doesn't
remove the responsibility for following at a safe distance.  If there's
a pile-up (in theory) every person who hit someone could be cited.  I have
no idea if they really do ticket everyone in these cases, but they could.

							Brett Carver
							brett@sr.hp.com
From: leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Freeway speeding?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:40:22 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Nov11.072140.1172@pro-palmtree.socal.com> markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz) writes:
:yes City cops can write speeding tickets on the Interstate- providing
:that there are still in their Jursdiction (San Jose) I know this for
:a fact, as my mother was a ride-along in Santa Monica (Ca) police car
:and they stop someone speeding on I-10 (San Diego Freeway)-while
:still in Santa Monica 

They can write citations anywhere in the the state, any POST certified
and sworn peace officer in California can do that.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dave@Cigna.COM (Dave Good)
Subject: Re: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Organization: Cigna FIRST - Irvine, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:04:49 GMT

In article <13084@optilink.UUCP> walsh@optilink.UUCP (Mark Walsh) writes:
>
>The CHiPs tell us not to leave our tail lights on if we must
>pull over on the freeway, because drunks will tend to follow
>*any* tail lights, so we should use our emergency flashers
>instead.  But why on earth is it illegal for us in CA to drive
>with just our parking lights on?  

The "official" answer I got (in traffic school) was that driving
without your headlights on but with your parking lights on makes
you appear to be farther away than you actually are, which in turn
could lead to accidents.


-- 
David Good                                                  dave@cigna.com

                 This space intentionally left blank.
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Freeway speeding?
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:21:40 GMT
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA

yes City cops can write speeding tickets on the Interstate- providing
that there are still in their Jursdiction (San Jose) I know this for
a fact, as my mother was a ride-along in Santa Monica (Ca) police car
and they stop someone speeding on I-10 (San Diego Freeway)-while
still in Santa Monica
From: envsxj@epb9.lbl.gov (Sigurd S. Jenssen)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date: 6 Nov 1992 23:26:52 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.98


I'm new to the Bay Area, so I'm wondering what the laws on Radar
Detectors are in California, and the neighboring states for that matter.

Thanks!

Sig.
From: Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu (Sudarshan S. Chawathe)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:15:38 GMT
Reply-To: Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu (Sudarshan S. Chawathe)
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Originator: chaw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
X-Disclaimer: Blame it on the cat.
Fcc: log/outgoing


Actually this brings up an interesting question.  We all know
that electronics is dirt-cheap (at least compared to the price of
a car!) And we can all no doubt think of so many little features
that involve just a little circuit here and there.  Yet, most
cars will not have these features. Why?  My guess is that the car
manufacturers want to reserve these nifty things for `luxury'
models, so that the customer can be more easily convinced to
cough up more money for the car.

Specific e.g.:  I haven't encountered any car that would beep at
you (say for 5 sec.) if you drive for 10 sec at night with your
lights off.  All this needs is a simple circuit that should cost
less than $10.

-Chaw

_________________________________________________________________
Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu                                 tat tvam asi
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:52:03 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Distribution: ca
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

danac@morc.asd.sgi.com (Dana Crom) writes:

}In article <32640017@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> defaria@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Andy DeFaria) writes:

}>Which leads me to the questions: What are "parking lights" for anyway?  and
}>Have you ever really used "parking lights" when "one needs to leave one's car
}>somewhere at night"?  (I haven't!)

}I believe that parking lights are for when you need to park, after dark, in
}a high-traffic area like a freeway shoulder, in a traffic lane on a city
}street, etc.  In other words, for emergency service only - your car broke
}down and someone might not see it in time without the lights.  And yes, I
}mean parking lights, not emergency flashers.

Exactly.  Example of when one should use parking lights:  Once, about a
bazillion years ago, my father and I were coming back from Tahoe, driving
down I80 near Benecia when we threw a wheel bearing.  We exited the freeway
and were on a little two-lane road with not much shoulder and (of course)
no street lights.  Before we hitched a ride into town, my Dad left the
parking lights on in the car.  Not only did that lessen the possibility
of another car hitting our car, but it made it much easier to FIND the
car when we came back in the tow truck.

--James Preston

Newsgroups: ca.driving,rec.autos
From: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Subject: Re: Are Radar Detectors banned in Oregon?
Reply-To: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Organization: Cornerstone Research, Cambridge, Mass.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:06:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.003331.15193@twg.com>, deven@twg.com (Deven 
Naniwadekar) writes:

> Could someone please tell me if radar detectors are banned in Oregon?
> 
> Thanks
> -Deven

Nope.

Andy


---
"I have seen the truth and it makes no sense."
From: jmp@leo.irv.icl.com (Jim Paugh)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Radar detectors in CA
Keywords: Radar Ca
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:45:54 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: ICL, Advanced Development Group, Irvine CA


	I know, this is probably covered in a FAQ, so could someone maybe
	forward some/all FAQs from this group, as I don't have ftp access.

	I was discussing with a friend the usefulness of a radar detector in
	CA, and we were both confused about the use of radar by CHPs in the
	state.  

		o Don't they only use radar during the daytime?

		o What's a good radar detector(all bands,etc) < $100 ?

		o Are RDs good for identifying CHPs in the general area,
		  or are they all using the "instant on" type radar?

	I'm sure most of these questions are answered in a FAQ, so if someone
	could send one to me, that would be great!

~Jim 
================================================================================
      __              __        Jim Paugh
     / /\            / /\
    / / /           / /  \
   / / /           / / /\ \
  / / /\          / / /\_\ \
 / / /\ \        / / / / / /            ICL, INC.
/_/ /\ \ \  im  /_/ / / / / augh       MID-RANGE SYSTEMS DIVISION
\_\/  \ \ \     \ \ \/ / /            9801 MUIRLANDS BLVD.
       \ \ \     \ \ \/ /            IRVINE, CALIFORNIA 92713-9593
        \_\ \     \ \  /            (714) 458-7282 ext. 4556
    __  / / /      \ \ \           jmp@al.irv.icl.com
   /_/\/ / /        \ \ \
   \ \ \/ /          \ \ \
    \ \  /            \ \ \
     \_\/              \_\/
================================================================================
From: walsh@optilink.UUCP (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:25:12 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <1dcktuINNjij@fido.asd.sgi.com>, by danac@morc.asd.sgi.com (Dana Crom):
> In article <32640017@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> defaria@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Andy DeFaria) writes:
> 
>>Which leads me to the questions: What are "parking lights" for anyway?  and
>>Have you ever really used "parking lights" when "one needs to leave one's car
>>somewhere at night"?  (I haven't!)
> 
> I believe that parking lights are for when you need to park, after dark, in
> a high-traffic area like a freeway shoulder, in a traffic lane on a city
> street, etc.

Our old Mercedes had a really nifty (but complicated) headlight
switch which would allow you to independently turn on the
parking light on any one corner of the car.  You could park in
an awkward spot, and turn on just that one bulb and not worry
about running down the battery!

The CHiPs tell us not to leave our tail lights on if we must
pull over on the freeway, because drunks will tend to follow
*any* tail lights, so we should use our emergency flashers
instead.  But why on earth is it illegal for us in CA to drive
with just our parking lights on?  
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: Bumped Bumpers!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:50:00 GMT

Rajeev Gupta (rajeev@oahu.cs.ucla.edu) wrote:
: Consider a hypothetical, though quite plausible, situation -
: 
: 	You are driving calmly on a surface street at no great speed,
: 	when suddenly, the car in front of you brakes suddenly.  You
: 	react as quickly as you can and slam on your brakes.
: 
: One of the following may happen -
: 
: 	1) You bump into the other car's rear fender.  Had you been
: 	   paying more attention, you would have been able to stop in
: 	   time to avoid the bump.
: 	
: 	2) You bump into the other car's fender, and there was no way
: 	   you could have stopped in time to avoid that.
: 
: 	3) You do not bump into the other car's rear fender.

I don't want to get into trying to answer your questions (deleted) right
now; but I want to add that there are other, unmentioned outcomes that
can also happen.  For example:

	4) You do not bump into the other car's rear fender; but the
	   car behind you does hit you, under either scenario 1) or
	   2) above.

Oh, and it certainly *does* matter why the first car stopped suddenly.
If the driver braked suddenly maliciously for no good reason, then
s/he is guilty of, at a minimum, reckless driving.  (2 points, not
just 1.)  So your dismissal of the reasons the other party stopped
being "unimportant" was too quick; the reason cannot be so easily
dismissed.

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
From: prem@prem.lbl.gov (R. Shirdi Prem)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 01:01:29 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: prem@prem.lbl.gov (R. Shirdi Prem)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.140.191

In article <chaw.720936938@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>, Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu (Sudarshan S. Chawathe) writes:
> 
> Actually this brings up an interesting question.  We all know
> that electronics is dirt-cheap (at least compared to the price of
> a car!) And we can all no doubt think of so many little features

	I am not disagreeing with the general idea that you present. But
	here are a few arguments to show why you may NOT want to burden
	the car with too many gizmos.

	1. The cost of a circuit may be $10, but it costs more in a car
	   because it needs to be more rugged than a similar circuit in
	   say, your CD player. This is obviously because you don't leave
	   a CD player out in the sun or rain, nor does it experience the
	   range of temperatures that a car does. You also dont force the
	   CD player to go through all the vibration and tossing around
	   that a typical car component must be protected against.

	2. Any component in a car has two costs; one is the monetary cost,
	   the other is the weight. I agree that the circuit _you_
	   suggested (beeping when you drive without headlights) will
	   weigh only a few ounces, but anything involving a motor carries
	   a weight penalty with it.

	3. More components means more things to go wrong. If the manufacturer
	   skimps on the QualControl to keep costs down, the public cribs
	   about the quality.

	These are some of the reasons cars lack some of the features you 
	described. Of course, you already covered the other reason. In most 
	cases, the manufacturer isn't interested if your battery runs down. 
	So, they would be much happier to let you leave the lights on after 
	turning off the engine, or to let you break your neck in an accident 
	because you were driving without lights at night. They really don't 
	care about such things.

	How many of us would chose a Zipmobile GTi over a Zonkmaster Challenger
	just because the GTi beeps when you drive without lights on, while the
	Challenger offers you a cup-holder ?? That is why you see manufacturers
	installing cupholders, instead of a headlight monitoring circuit.

	Anyway, that's my point.

	Prem!
From: gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: *** Full Bladders And Relief ***
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:58:09 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Is there such as thing as an aftermarket bladder pack for long
distance truck drivers? If embarked on a long trip to Phoenix,
AZ from the Bay Area which is some 800 miles away it certainly
helps if one needs only to stop once or twice for gas without
being too concerned about finding a restroom especially since
it's rather hard to urinate in the wide open desert without
being seen by passing motorists or an unamused patrolman. :-)

On that basis, should anyone wish to share their experiences
on how to get around the full bladder problem whilst in the
middle of nowhere that still has passing traffic then, by all
means, let's share them shall we? Remember, I'm talking about
no gas stations, coffee shops, reststops or any convenient
location where one can seek relief. This is not intended to
be a joke, mind you, but to share information on how we can
handle such a potentially embarrassing problem. Please post
or if you're too modest to post then email me and I'll post
your information minus your name and email address here. 

Graeme Harrison
DoD#0649
(gh@hpmsd2.sj.hp.com)
'Can't hold it any longer....'
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: *** Full Bladders And Relief ***
Date: 9 Nov 1992 05:26:05 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <53410023@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison) writes:
>Is there such as thing as an aftermarket bladder pack for long
>distance truck drivers? If embarked on a long trip to Phoenix,
>AZ from the Bay Area which is some 800 miles away it certainly
>helps if one needs only to stop once or twice for gas without
>being too concerned about finding a restroom especially since
>it's rather hard to urinate in the wide open desert without
>being seen by passing motorists or an unamused patrolman. :-)

Private pilots use a funny looking plastic bottle with a flaring
snout-like nozzle. It's called a H.E.R.E. (Human Element Range
Extender). (I got mine at Sporty's Pilot Shop at Lufkin Airport - I think it's
in either Cleveland or Cincinnati, it's been 10 years since I last
saw their catalog.) There's a female version called Jill's John.
I used mine numerous times. You'd whiz in the bottle, put the
cap on, open the pilot's 'storm' window - a little flap window about
6 inches wide and 4 inches high - then stick the neck of the bottle
out the window, pop the cap off and voila! the bottle would suddenly become
empty in the 160 mph slipstream. I mean, it would be absolutely dry.

I suspect you could find these at any small airport's FBO (fixed base
operator) shop. Ask around.


Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: jmp@leo.irv.icl.com (Jim Paugh)
Subject: Re: Why don't people use their lights?
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:10:17 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: ICL, Advanced Development Group, Irvine CA

In article <1992Oct26.225932.19319@netcom.com>, wisner@netcom.com (Bill Wisner) writes:
> In the Yukon Territory, Canada (and I think British Columbia too),
> you're required by law to always drive with your lights on.  Period.
> 
> I took driver's education in high school from a former policeman (turned
> fifth grade teacher).  He always drove with his headlights on, and urged
> all his students to do the same.  Nobody listened.

  Have you ever tried driving in CA with you headlights on during the day?  
  You will receive numereous headlight flashes from other cars, indicating 
  the inappropriateness of your safety consciousness!  The assumption is 
  that you are just another brain-dead driver who has left your headlights
  on from the previous night %^)

  Southern Ca has the most absentee drivers; I have worn out the high beam 
  flasher on my turn indicator stalk, trying to educate left lane human
  road blocks!

> 
> w. <wisner@netcom.com> <wisner@EBay.Sun.COM> Gryphon Gang Mountain View CA

~Jim
================================================================================
      __              __        Jim Paugh      
     / /\            / /\           
    / / /           / /  \           
   / / /           / / /\ \      
  / / /\          / / /\_\ \    
 / / /\ \        / / / / / /            ICL, INC.
/_/ /\ \ \  im  /_/ / / / / augh       MID-RANGE SYSTEMS DIVISION
\_\/  \ \ \     \ \ \/ / /            9801 MUIRLANDS BLVD.
       \ \ \     \ \ \/ /            IRVINE, CALIFORNIA 92713-9593
        \_\ \     \ \  /            (714) 458-7282 ext. 4556         
    __  / / /      \ \ \           jmp@al.irv.icl.com    
   /_/\/ / /        \ \ \          
   \ \ \/ /          \ \ \ 
    \ \  /            \ \ \       
     \_\/              \_\/       
================================================================================

Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: john@storcon.UUCP (John Hunley)
Subject: Re: Stupidity in cars (was Re: Why don't people use their lights?)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:16:46 GMT
Organization: Storage Concepts, Inc.

In article <32640017@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com>, defaria@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Andy DeFaria) writes:
|> Which leads me to the questions: What are "parking lights" for anyway?  and
|> Have you ever really used "parking lights" when "one needs to leave one's car
|> somewhere at night"?  (I haven't!)

Not to be trite, but the fact is that parking lights are for parking.  They may
be used any time the vehicle is parked (but NEVER when it's in motion), to
signify just that, that the vehicle is parked.

Following are the CVC sections applicable to parking lights:

    24800.  No vehicle shall be driven at any time with the parking lamps
    lighted except when the lamps are being used as turn signal lamps or when
    the headlamps are also lighted.

    24801.  Parking lamps are those lamps permitted by Section 25106, or any
    lamps mounted on the front of the vehicle, designed to be displayed
    primarily when the vehicle is parked.

    24802.  No lights need be displayed upon a vehicle which is:
    (a) Parked off the roadway and not in a hazardous position on the
    highway; or
    (b) Parked with a wheel within 18 inches of a curb; or
    (c) Parked within a business or residence district with a wheel within
    18 inches of a curb or edge of the roadway.

    25106.  (a) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with lighted white or
    amber cowl or fender lamps on the front.  Any vehicle may be equipped
    with not more than one amber side lamp on each side near the front, nor
    more than one red side lamp on each side near the rear.  The light source
    of each such lamp shall not exceed four standard candlepower.
    (b) Lamps meeting requirements established by the department for
    side-marker or combination clearance and side-marker lamps may be installed
    on the sides of vehicles at any location, but any lamp installed within
    24 inches of the rear of the vehicle shall be red, and any lamp installed
    at any other location shall be amber.

So to answer your question, the CVC doesn't specifically say when parking lamps
MUST be used, but 24802 implies that they would be used when you're parked
further than 18 inches from the curb or edge of the roadway (which is illegal -
see CVC 22502) or when you're parked "in a hazardous position on the highway"
(which, in the infinite wisdom of the DMV, is perfectly legal as long as your
parking lights are on).

Notice that it is NEVER legal to drive with just your parking lights on.  They
are ONLY to be used when parked.  If you want to see better or be seen better,
turn your headlights on.
-- 
                            John Hunley
   Storage Concepts, Inc.                  UUCP:  uunet!storcon!john
   1622 Deere Ave.                        Voice:  (714) 852-8511
   Irvine, CA  92714                        FAX:  (714) 557-5064
From: Ed.Evans@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: "Tail Trackers"
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov  5 1992
Date: 09 Nov 92  11:09:06

RC>When I took the MSF classes in motorcycle safety driving about a decade
RC>ago, they suggested that, when coming to a stop, or actually _at_ a stop,
RC>one press, release, press, release, one's brakes, rhythmically, so that
RC>oncoming vehicles would see your tail lights brighten, dim, brighten, dim,
RC>so that otherwise oblivious drivers attuned to scanning for _cars_ would
RC>see your lone tail light.

This is the best advice I've read here.  I've been advised to either
slow down a tad, or change lanes.  I think your advice is adds a third,
which I've used, come to think of it.  Slowing down on a motorcycle can
be hazardous, I would think.  By far, the "press,  release" method has a
lot to recommend it.

Regards.
___
 X SLMR 2.0 #1708 X No Freedom without Wilderness!

--- Maximus 2.00