HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Re: Sgt-Mgr Nissim Toledano found murdered
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:44:44 CST

In article <1992Dec19.171726.27595@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> According to NPR, last night, the majority of those expelled were
> professionals such as doctors, teachers, lawyers, and engineers. Many


	Without expressing any opinion about the deportation and 
	the deportees, let me remined you that George Habash is 
	a doctor, Yassir Arafat is an engineer, and I bet you 
	could find other terrorists who are teachers or lawyers.


			[...]
 
> Brad Hernlem 


Noam


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 14 Dec 1992 12:39:28 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article <1992Dec13.171353.14338@colorado.edu> Eric Perlman writesL
>In article <1geqdcINNhqk@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>In article 12736@colorado.edu, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>>  And, it should be added, Jews were a 60%+ majority in
>>>the part allocated to Israel 

>>About 55%.  The usual figure ignores the Negev bedouin.

>>>- which did *not* include Jerusalem (and
>>>Jerusalem c. 1948 was roughly 70% Jewish).  

>>The international enclave of Jerusalem had marginally fewer 
>>than 50% Jews.

>The international enclave also included several suburbs.  The city
>itself was roughly 70% Jewish (we've discussed these statistics before).

>>>So the partition was quite fair.

>>About twice as much land (with more than twice the average
>>economic value) per Jew as per Arab.  If a little circle was
>>drawn around each Arab house and the remainder was given to the
>>Jewish State, the latter would have been 100% Jewish and so
>>even fairer, according to your logic. 

>This is the most ridiculous misrepresentation of my views I have
>seen in quite a while.  You're implying that I don't think
>there should be Arabs inside Israel, or any Jewish state.  That's
>complete hooey.  Balderdash.  You should be ashamed of yourself for
>misrepresenting my opinions so.

Oh, fair shake of the stick, Eric.  (Is that expression known in the
US?  I've been across the Pacific so many times I can't remember who 
says what where.)  I didn't imply any such thing; all I did was prove 
that your reasoning is inadequate.  Of course I know very well that 
you don't hold such views, so let nobody think I claimed you did.

Let me spell it out.  A number of times recently you have made
statements equivalent to "the partition was fair because the
Jewish part had a Jewish majority".  I don't believe that is 
a reasonable indicator of fairness, and I proved that by applying
the same indicator successfully to a partition which is obviously
unfair.  Reductio ad absurdum.  If you want to keep the theorem
you have to upgrade the proof.  That's it.

Brendan.
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:58:42 IST
From: Hank Nussbacher <HANK@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Size of Israeli settlements

The following numbers are from the municipial tax records for the
various settlements as of Oct 1992:

Alfe Menashe    Municipal           3525
Ariel           Municipal          13026
Beit Aryeh      Municipal           1757
Jordan Valley   Regional  (18)      3800
Betar           Municipal           3524
Efrat           Municipal           3807
Elkana          Municipal           3331
Emanuel         Municipal           4803
Gaza Coast      Regional (17)       4905
Givat Zeev      Municipal           7100
Gush Etzion     Regional (14)       8751
Har Hebron      Regional (13)       3046
Hebron          Municipal            580
Karnei Shomron  Municipal           5050
Kedumim         Municipal           2000
Kiryat Arba     Municipal           6527
Mate Binyamin   Regional (30)      16004
Maale Adumim    City               16757
Migilot         Regional (5)         700
Oranit          Municipal           3402
Shomron         Regional (32)      12921

Total                             127135

Notes:

a) Regional refers to a regional council and the number in
parenthesis represents the number of settlements in that regional
council.

Hank Nussbacher
Karnei Shomron
Israel
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Islamic Law
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:10:52 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <4669@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <42478@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>>
>>	And rightly so.  If Islam would leave these matters to
>>	Allah, there would be few complaints.  But many in the
>>	West find it absolutely disgusting that Islam would put
>>	to death a woman who confessed to adultery 
>>	or an apostate who mocked Islam.

>Do those same Westerners find it abhorent what the laws are as
>prescribed in the Old Testament and other Biblical readings - i.e.,
>stoning adulterers, villages of homosexuals being wiped out, the
>raping and pillaging of towns (and taking the young, virginal girls
>as 'prizes'),

  You bet!

>as well as incest and fornication by everyone - from
>the common folk to the prophets themselves?

  As for what the prophets do in their bedrooms, as long as informed consent 
is present among all parties, I consider that to be their own business and
I'm amazed that so many can get so excited over it:)

>Anisa

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israeli lobby
Date: 20 Dec 92 10:48:05 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Jack Schmidling

 JS> Couldn't help think of McLaughlin's interview with Lee
 JS> Hamilton this morning.  He is the head of the Foreign
 JS> Relations Committee. John asked him what he thougt of the
 JS> move afoot to spring Pollard and he said he didn't know
 JS> enough about the case to comment. When pushed for a
 JS> response, he pleaded totaly ignorance of the most evil spy
 JS> in decades. Some foreign relations committee. Wonder if he
 JS> would have had an opinion on Walker? Can't be that he is
 JS> afraid of the Israel lobby, could it?

If you've been reading publications like the Forward and The New
Republic lately you will know that there has been a frenetic
effort underway by the Israeli lobby to keep Lee Hamilton from
being appointed Secretary of State. They don't trust him to be
their obedient servant, since he is an independent thinker who
has dared to voice some criticism of some Israeli policies in the
past. The Israeli lobby keeps long lists of enemies, and Hamilton
and one of his top advisers are on that list.

This is just one of many reasons why the Israeli lobby has gotten
on my bad side, and angered so many Americans. I happen to think
Lee Hamilton is easily one of the most impressive members of
Congress, and someone superbly qualified to be Secretary of
State. And here we have to contend with these representatives of
a foreign lobby who are trying to dictate who will make U.S.
foreign policy.

I think a huge backlash is building in the U.S. against the
Israeli lobby. They have gone too far. Even Yitzhak Rabin is
aware of the problem, and has soundly tongue-lashed AIPAC and its
related organizations for overstepping all decent bounds in their
efforts to bully the American government to do their bidding.

Many of us will be watching the Clinton administration very
carefully to see to what degree his strings are being pulled by
AIPAC. One of his top advisers, David Ifshin, served as legal
council for AIPAC and the Clinton campaign at the same time.

Can you imagine how bizarre things have become, btw, when
American political leaders don't dare criticize someone like
Jonathan Pollard, who stole our country's most sensitive secrets
and voiced support for Jewish terrorism, for fear of antagonizing
the Israeli lobby? This is truly madness. I can't imagine this
state of affairs will go on for much longer.
---
  OLX 3.0 31-2557  The dome of thought, the palace of the soul.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23690 soc.culture.arabic:5752
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the Jews / Hamas vs. Sunnah
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:10:48 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I try not to get involved in religious debates; I believe that relying
on religion to solve societal problems really doesn't cut it.  However,
I couldn't help but notice the incredibly naive piece of propaganda
below:

In article <1992Dec18.203830.4291@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash) writes:
>In <1992Dec16.013422.2042@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:
> [...]
>
>> Ilyess made a point
>>that it does not, that one cannot kill someone who has been disarmed
>>for example.  But the HAMAS has just executed a Jew with his hands tied.
>
>But you say it is execution !!!  So surely he must have been executed after
>being disarmed!! there is no point of keeping him armed at the time of
>execution. It is a fact, in Israel, every Jewish person (man or woman) is
>armed, and they are not armed to defend themselves from an external
>attack, but to be in a position that they can opress the palestinians, 
>without having to worry about their reaction.

This is completely untrue.  I challenge Mr. El-Habbash to provide even
one shred of evidence stating that every Jewish person in Israel owns a
firearm.  Let's also mention that Jews owning firearms do *NOT* do so
for the purpose of oppressing the Palestinians, but for self-defense.
-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: The Chairman Defines Foreign Policy
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:03:29 GMT

>From Israeline [12-15-92]:
>
>Syrian Deputy President Says Yasser Arafat Lost his Sanity
>
>Today's YEDIOT AHRONOT quotes the Italian newspaper "Il-Jiornale"
>which published an interview yesterday with Syrian Deputy President
>Abdel Halim Hadam, the man considered "number two" in Syria. Hadam
>said in the interview that he is convinced that PLO Chief Yasser
>Arafat has lost his sanity. "I have the impression, that following
>the plane accident, Arafat lost his sanity..." Hadam said that
>Arafat's claim that parts of the Golan Heights belong to the
>Palestinians constitutes the final proof of his madness.

So this is the kind of foreign policy exercise that we can
expect from a Palestinian State?  Terrific.  How long would it
be before a Palestinian State would be intriguing against the
Hashemite regime?  Playing off Riyadh against Amman for aid?
Etc. etc. etc.

This is why U.S. policy, sanctioned by the State Department
and Congress, opposes the creation of a Palestinian State.

-- Chris Metcalfe

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Is Zionism a form of racism?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:45:14 GMT

In article <1483500310@igc.apc.org> cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes:
>
>
>The story  in the beginning of this conference has been published in the
>Israeli newspaper Hadashot 14. Sept. 1990 i0.
>It was writeen in Hebrew by a racially pure Jew, a bona fide Israeli
>citizen with full credetials from the Rabbinate.
>It is of course a fiction-story, as anybody would recognize. But it

There is no such thing as a "racially pure" Jew.  It is not, and has
never been that.

>alas reflects the reality. Many non-Jews who arrived to Israel from the
>Soviet Union were expelled from Israel after it was found that they
>were not Jews but Christians who got 'Jews'-certificates to get out
>from the Soviet Union. I am not even speaking of those hundreds of
>thousands of non-Jews who are actually native of the country now called
>Israel and who are prohibited by the force of the gun to return to
>their homeland. 

What about attempting to get citizenship in a country under false
pretenses?  That's what these people are doing.  I think that these
people should still be permitted to remain as refugees, but the law of
return doesn't apply to them.

>Such refusal is contrary to:
>The Human Rights Charter
>The International Convention for the Abolition of all Forms of racial
>   Districimination
>The International Convent of Civil and Political Rights
>United Nations Resolutions
>and basic decency.
>
>The Center for Policy Research is concerned with issues of justice, peace
>and concentrates on the Zionist-Palestinian conflict. It works on the
>base of principles such as the:
>1. Respect for an stregthening of international law as tool for peace
>2. The solution of the Palestine question on the base of UN resolutions
>3. Unequivocal opposition to all forms of racial discrimination
>
>I urge those who feel compelled to give vent to their anger, to
>verify facts and point to possible mistakes in our contributions.
>Any such constructive comments are highly welcome.
>We are searching for the truth as condition for justice.

Then why use fables, which don't indicate the facts of the matter, and
are based in absurdity, as this fable clearly was, to illustrate a false
situation?

>E Davidsson, born in Palestine 1941
>(parents from Germany, Jews expelled from their homeland)

And you don't believe that Jews need a homeland, even after the shoah?

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23691 soc.rights.human:4567
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:32:24 GMT
	<1992Dec18.124600.16290@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu's message of 18 Dec 92 12:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.124600.16290@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
> In article <1gqq8qINNgmf@agate.berkeley.edu> sag@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Goldfield) writes:
>
> # Under the fourth 1949 Geneva Convention, which covers occupied
> # territories, the occupying power may not, under any circumstances
> # whatsoever, expel residents from an occupied territory nor may it
> # detain them without charges or imprison them outside the occupied
> # territory. Collective punishment is also banned. It is also a clear
> # violation of the convention to settle Israeli civilians in the West
> # Bank and Gaza.
>
> Throughout the entire evolution of the fourth Geneva convention,
> including its official interpretations, it is clear that the Convention
> does not prohibit all expulsions, despite the fact that the wording of
> the convention may lead one to believe that.

Article 49 of the 1949 (Fourth) Geneva Convention on the Protection
of War Victims states, among other things:

  Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of
  protected persons [i.e., inhabitants of occupied territory -- YA]
  from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or
  to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited
  regardless of motive.

Yes, I can see why the innocent reader might be misled into believing
that the convention prohibits expulsions.  Luckily we have Mr. Makowsky
to set us straight.

Thank god!
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
arens@isi.edu
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Wayne McGuire vs. the truth.
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:22:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Wayne McGuire writes...

>Keep the hate mail coming, btw; far be it from me to to inhibit
>your superb public relations work on behalf of Israel. No wonder
>Israel is doing so well of late.

    This is the SECOND TIME you claim that you have received hate 
    mail from me!  YOU ARE A LIAR!  You've NEVER gotten one piece   
    of mail from me in your life.  I HEARBY GIVE YOU UNRESTRICTED
    PERMISSION TO REPOST ANY MAIL THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED FROM ME.  
    Please realize that if you do not post any mail received from
    me, this group will realize what a lying piece of garbage you
    are.  It seems that the only way you can do what you do is to
    bear false witness, deliberately mislead, fabricate, create a 
    wrong impression, lie, twist the truth, etc.  
    
    Why do you keep telling people that I send you mail?  Did you
    think that I would let you get away with such a lie?
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinian deportees turned back by Lebanese
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:27:58 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <1992Dec19.080927.0106556@locus.com> John Elghani the brilliant 
writes:

[JLE] Below is a description of the HUMANITARIAN and PEACFULL acts of the
[JLE] HUMANITARIAN and PEACE LOVING state of Israel.  A UPI article:

I see you have finally seen the light. The world is not such a bad place after
all. There is still hope ...

If Israel had been an Arab country, there would now be 400 families, if not 
more, mourning ... 

Tsiel
-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians (fwd)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 12:23:03 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

From usc!usc!not-for-mail Fri Dec 18 12:21:18 PST 1992
Article: 54854 of soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:19:32 GMT

In article <1619@tdat.teradata.COM> jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich) writes:

>What ever the intentions of those throwing stones (they could not see where
>they landed), they were not posing a threat to anyone. 

"I shot an arrow in the air,
     and where it lands, I do not care."

Here in NY, when people start shooting and "stray bullets" kill
innocent bystanders, no one claims that the shooters "were not posing
a threat to anyone."  Your defense is preposterous.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Islamic Law
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:59:37 GMT

<4669@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>>	And rightly so.  If Islam would leave these matters to
>>	Allah, there would be few complaints.  But many in the
>>	West find it absolutely disgusting that Islam would put
>>	to death a woman who confessed to adultery 
>>	or an apostate who mocked Islam.
 
>Unfortunately you still do not understand that "these matters" are
>infact subscribed to Muslims - to uphold the laws of God, according
>to the Quoran, and Sunna of the Prophet of Allah (saws).

	Au contraire, I understand only too well, that's precisely
        the problem.


>Do those same Westerners find it abhorent what the laws are as
>prescribed in the Old Testament and other Biblical readings - i.e.,
>stoning adulterers, villages of homosexuals being wiped out, the
>raping and pillaging of towns (and taking the young, virginal girls
>as 'prizes'), as well as incest and fornication by everyone - from
>the common folk to the prophets themselves?


	Not to mention my favorite, in II Kings 2:23,24, where
	Elisha curses some children for making fun of his
	baldness, and as a result, two she-bears maul 42 of them.
	Fortunately, modern Western law is not completely dictated
	by religious law.  In Israel, for example, homosexual acts
	are legal, despite any proscription by Judaism.
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: Three troubling questions about Islam
Organization: LC
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:55:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.194045.20214@math.ucla.edu> shteingd@oak.math.ucla.edu (Semion D. Shteingold) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.065109.2435339@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John
>Elghani/10000000) writes:
>|> 
>|> The native of the land returns to it from refugee camps in Lebanon,
>       ^^^^^^
>|> Syria, Jordan, ...etc, then the terrorist in charge will be 
>|> eliminated, then Jews, Christians, Muslims, ...etc can live
>|> in THEIR land normally.
>|> 
>|> jle
>|> 
>
>Could you be so kind to explain the highlited word?
>I mean:
> Why do You consider Arabs `more` native than Jews?

I didn't.  I mentioned that "then Jews, Christians, Muslims, ..etc can..."

jle

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic