HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:25:11 GMT

jbbe+@andrew.cmu.edu (James Arthur Burtoft) writes:
:     Inspired by this, I went to the local library, and looked through a
: book on locksmithing.  After figuring out how this picking thing works,
: I went to the local locksmith's shop, and asked him if he had any
: half-diamond picks and torsion wrenches (a good start).  He asked me
: why, and I told him-I work in the lumber store.  Then he asked me how I
: knew that I wanted a half-diamond pick, and I told him.  He then told me
: that he couldn't sell them to me unless I was a bonded locksmith, and
: then proceeded to tell me how horrible it was that teenage punks could
: go into a library and get a book out on locksmithing (I assume he meant
: the likes of me:), and what a horrible society this would lead to if
: allowed to continue, and how he was going to ask the library to please
: remove them.

:    That's pretty close to "butt out".

Not only that, but it is narrow-minded censorship. I hope he was not
successful - it would set a dangerous precedent. 

He has every right to refuse to sell the picks, because he does not
believe you should have them. However, lying to you about the reason
for not selling them is wrong.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:19:19 GMT

>Most places have laws against "possession of burglar tools" or something
>similar.  I know somebody who was charged with this because of lock picks
>in his possession.  It could also apply to a screwdriver under the right
>circumstances.

The laws I've read base the "posession of burgular tools" on the 
presence of criminal INTENT.  Unless you have some sort of proof
that you have a legit reason to have them, you may find that you
will have to pay an attorney to prove a lack of criminal intent.

If no special business license for locksmiths is required in you area,
you can always have some business cards printed up.


                                        rob b.
From: mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Trick for auto entry in the news.
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:47:27 GMT
Organization: W.A.S.T.E.


A local news story said that thiefs had been exploiting
a new trick to unlock cars.

The claim was that one could take a tennis ball, cut a 
hole about the size of a quarter in it.  Place the hole
flush with the door over the keyway.  Then give the ball
a sharp blow, while at the same time pulling on the door
handle.  Up pops the lock. Sort of a pneumatic pick gun.  

I've not had a chance to try this yet.  Has anyone
else heard of this?  Anyone tried it successfully?

mark
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:2028 alt.radio.scanner:2887
From: garnet@borland.com (Garnet Chaney)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: FREQUENCIES OF KEEPSAFER (SCHLAGE) SECURITY SYSTEMS  ?
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:19:01 GMT
Organization: Borland International
Originator: garnet@genghis.borland.com

In article <1992Nov10.063641.20008@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>birnbaum@math.washington.edu (Z.W. Birnbaum) writes:
>: 
>:   I would like to monitor a door and if I know the frequency
>:   of the transmitter, I just need to buy the transmitter
>:   ($33.59) and not the whole system which is more than $150.
>:   I plan to use a scanner to monitor the frequency.
>:   I have already bought the transmitter, and looked inside
>:   but I could not find the frequency written anywhere. 
>:   The Instructions did not contain any specifications, much
>:   less the frequency.
>
>Hm. You have a scanner. Why not just trigger the transmitter and
>find what frequency it is on using the tool which is designed for
>precisely that purpose?
>
>Bill

Scanners aren't designed to lock onto frequencies like that. What is needed
is a frequency counter on the output of the transmitter. 
 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: colin.buckley@rose.com (colin buckley)
Subject: Trick for auto entry
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:24:05 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 11-22-92 00:17
M(>The claim was that one could take a tennis ball, cut a
  >hole about the size of a quarter in it.  Place the hole
  >flush with the door over the keyway.  Then give the ball
  >a sharp blow, while at the same time pulling on the door
  >handle.  Up pops the lock. Sort of a pneumatic pick gun.
M(>I've not had a chance to try this yet.  Has anyone
  >else heard of this?  Anyone tried it successfully?

We can do something similar with certain newspaper machines in Ontario.  Hit
the box in a certain position and pull the handle at the same time and it
opens.  It must cause the locking mechanism to release.

Does anyone know the legality of lock picks in Canada?

Since other international posters have already said Galls and other places
won't sell outside of America, would anyone be willing to order the picks.
When you get them, send them to me COD to ensure you get your money back
and I get the lock picks.  Of course, I'll pay you for your service...
.----------------------------------------------------.
| Colin Buckley                                      |
| Toronto, Ontario, Canada                           |
| InterNet: colin.buckley@rose.com                   |
|                                                    |
| So Eager to Play, So Relunctant to Admit it...     |
`----------------------------------------------------'
---
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Is this a bad idea, or what?  ( A new(?)car locking scheme?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:41:14 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

A certain well known make of American Car has a "feature":

	Passive Keyless Entry
	It seems that the key fob is "bugged", so the car knows when it is
	near, and unlocks.

Now is it just me, or will the "magic code(s)" _rapidly_ become public knowledge
(at least for certain segments of the "public"...)?

I guess there will be a quasi conventional keylock inside.  I hope so.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:43:26 GMT

yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku) writes:
: >This mail is from Chris W. via my acct.  I'm a veteran locksmith.
: >P.S. - Being in possession of picks in most states is considered
: >illegal if not a locksmith.
: >..wq
: 
: (Steve, if you could please forward this to Chris W.)
: Chris W.,
:   Don't you be telling me what I can and cannot do.  I've often read that
: locksmiths discourage people from learning to pick locks.  They want to
: keep their trade skills secret, so they can charge people crazy amounts
: of money, like $50, to open a lock.  That's wrong.  I find locksmithing to 
: be very interesting, and I freely help others learn what I know.
:   I'm not a criminal.  I've never used my locksmithing skills to steal
: anything.  Possession of picks is a crime?  Big deal.  I, as do many 
: people, feel that my government has no right to tell me what I can't own 
: for my personal use (ie, handguns, RSA encryption, lockpicks...).
: [end]

Possession of picks, contrary to what Chris said, is not a crime in most
areas of the country. I do believe that it is in the District of Columbia.
I don't think that any states have laws against possession - although some
cities may.

: Has anyone else ever been told by a locksmith to "butt out" of his
: profession?  I'd be interested to hear about it.

Nope. In my experience, the real professionals have been more than willing
to talk to beginners. They know that the amateur is no threat to their
business - the amateur cannot afford the equipment/stock necessary to run
a successful locksmithing business.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Subject: Re: car thieves
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:06:58 GMT

In article <24008@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> crussell@samson.hac.com writes:
>J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>> Heck, in California, the car thieves just wait by stop lights, and when
>> the light turns red, stick a gun in your face, tell you to slide over
>> and drive away with you and the car.
>
>In article 6104@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>> That is what happens when your enlightened legislature makes it illegal
>> for the law abiding citizen to own firearms. 
>
>I agree, we should all be carrying guns in our vehicles.  Of course, since
>criminals are using automatic weapons, we better make them legal as well (to
>protect ourselves).  In fact, maybe we should just strap HE explosives to our
>backs... that would keep criminals at a distance.  :)

There were two carjackinnng attempts in Boston on the same day a few weeks
ago.  In one attempt, the driver was kidnapped (for a short period of
time, since the carjacker drove off with her until wrecking the car).  The
other carjacking was aborted when the driver pulled his licensed firearm
and held the felon for police.

A ban on the availability of armed self defense WILL keep me from having
emergency safety rescue equipment available when I need it.  It will NOT
keep agressors against me from having guns though.

ps:  Word is that Floridian crooks are now targetting out of state
     cars, since they know that only in state residents can obtain
     gun carry permits.

Rob Boudrie
rboudrie@chpc.org
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: tspindle@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (tom spindler)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Northea$tern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:57:49 GMT

>  Don't you be telling me what I can and cannot do.  I've often read that
>locksmiths discourage people from learning to pick locks.  They want to
>keep their trade skills secret, so they can charge people crazy amounts
>of money, like $50, to open a lock.  That's wrong.  I find locksmithing to 

In "Locksmith Ledger", they encourage the promotion of the "locksmith
mystique". For example, they tell you (the locksmith) to keep a lock
around that's had the pins worn away by a non-burnished key duplicate,
and to tell the customer how superior your copies are. It also tells
that you should hide the key-duplicator from view, so the customers
won't see how easy it is to dupe keys (my comment).

Good old Fear, Intimidation, and Doubt at work.
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: car thieves
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:30:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov13.175316.18066@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>	Not too long ago around midnight I was walking home from the
>main campus here and I got the opportunity to watch a 'professional'
>car thief in action(Professional in that the guy probably does it
>for a living.)

Your thieves are wimps.  On a street which runs right along the south end
of the UC Berkeley campus, out in front of the (very popular) fitness center,
I witnessed a homeless-looking women having some difficulty opening a car
door with her keys.  She had a lot of them and was jangling them quite a
bit.  Didn't really strike me until later that her hands were moving in an
up-and-down motion instead of a rotating motion...

Yet another guy was standing in the parking lot of a busy restaurant, doing
the same key trick.  Except he had this big white pillow case in his other
hand.  A tad obvious.

Rule #107 of life in Berkeley: don't leave anything inside your vehicle that
you wouldn't feel safe leaving on the hood.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: mckillnm@unix2.tcd.ie (Marky Mark)
Subject: Gall's  ? (Who are they, and what do they sell ?)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:18:43 GMT


Hi there,
	 I have been reading the past few posting and I was 
very intrested in the Gall's kit... what is it ? and where can
it be bought ?? (address, etc).  Do they do a catologue ?


	Thanks,

		Mark

	
--
  _ _ _                 _ _ _                        |  mckillnm@unix2.tcd.ie
 ' ) ) )         /     ' ) ) )    /     /) /)        |-------------------------
  / / / __  __  /_      / / / _  /_ o  // // _  __   |As they say in Russia ..
 / ' (_(_(_/ (_/ <_    / ' (_(__/ <_(_(/_(/_(<_/) )_ |    "Mascow...." 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: my start
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 09:19:49 GMT

psr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Lord Strider) writes:

: So I got me a copy of Popular Science, and mailed away to the advertised lock-
: schools for their information packets.  Then I called numbers out of the
: phone book to look for a job.  I got an owner on the phone and he was very
: friendly.  Even with no work experience, he wants me to come in to talk about
: it.  I didn't sense any reservations about "trade secrets" or anything like
: that.  So tomorrow I'll stop in and see what happens.

Glad you have found a locksmith who is so reasonable.

: Main points here is that locksmiths aren't stuck up snobs.  They have a 
: responsibility to be responsible, thats all. Second point is, the overwhelming
: opinion on how to become a locksmith is experience.

Yep - and lots of practice. You will find that picking locks is a very minute
part of the work.  In all my years of part-time locksmithing, I have only 
found the need to pick about a dozen locks for customers. Most of those were
picked, in the shop, using shims (instead of a torque wrench).

Bill
From: trimblte@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Todd E Trimble)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 05:30:47 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: trimblte@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Todd E Trimble)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-07.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1eegh0INNg50@athena.sdsu.edu> dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster)  
writes:
-->If he had decided to make a run for it, you presumably wouldn't want to 
-->shoot him in the back (manslaughter I would think). My guess is that  
most 
-->thieves would just make a run for it, and not give up quietly.

This topic is really not lock-related...but here goes.....

1) Guns tend to make people dumb.  (Please no one take this out of  
context....)  When one points a gun at another person, the person on the  
end that isn't safe normally wouldn't stop to think, "Hey, if I run, this  
clown isn't gonna shoot me," I wouldn't imagine.  When a gun gets pointed,  
the pointer soon has the pointee's full atention and obedience in most  
situations.

2)  If faced with the "he won't kill me-I'll run" scenario, I think my  
first shot with a shot gun would be at the calves of the fleeing thief.   
This would stop, but not kill the involved party.  Sure, the charge could  
still be leveled "Assualt w/a deadly weapon" or some-such, but it ain't  
murder, and I'm not sure the case would even be brought.  There is that  
fuzzy line of what "protecting one's person, family and property" entails.   
If I fire a goodly sized charge of buckshot into the calves of any  
would-be-thief, and (s)he STILL has the gumption to get away, it won't be  
hard to find them in a gutter or hospital the next morning.
--
Todd Eric Trimble
<Quote from me>   <Disclaimer>    <List of quotes from others>
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Mul-T-Lock
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:07:41 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

How secure are Mul-T-Lock cylinders compared to Medecos?  Are Medeco 
cylinders as secure as everyone believes?


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Lockpick guidess
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:42:05 GMT

dsdd@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Roy Barrett) writes:
: 
: Can anyone here please email me the FAQ and any picking guides (I've already
: seen informatik-5..)
: 
: 
: Thanks a lot... I've also found an easier way to get into offices and such with
: double doors... take a protractor with the flat edge broken off, and you can
: "unhook" the lock.. it's not quite "lockpicking", but it works.. :D

It works on cheaper locks. On better quality locks, such a technique will
not work.

Bill
From: yerazunis@cthulu.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:12:32 GMT
Organization: Turing Police


	[my turn to flame... Wheee!]

Re: expensive stereos and 2-inch dicks:

I don't *care* if someone wants to buy an expensive stereo.  That's cool.

What is uncool is when their car alarm wakes me up.  That's *very* uncool.
I haven't got a good way of dealing with these uncool events... though
I've thought of a few. :-)

-----

Basic rule of gunplay- if the situation would not justify your killing of
someone, don't bring the gun out.  Putting someone in _fear_ of their life is
assault; use a gun and it's ADW.  You don't have to fire the gun to commit the
crime.  Basically the DA decides if they're going to charge you, and the
victim's lawyer can file civil suits even if the DA declines to charge.

	-Bill

Copyright 1992 William S. Yerazunis (aka Crah the Merciless)
All rights reserved, no responsibility taken.

     "Iconoclasm as a way of life..."
From: snow@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Mark Harrison)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Trick for auto entry in the news.
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:07:49 GMT
Organization: CS fyshing Team

In article <41341@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson) writes:

>A local news story said that thiefs had been exploiting
>a new trick to unlock cars.
>
>The claim was that one could take a tennis ball, cut a 
>hole about the size of a quarter in it.  Place the hole
>flush with the door over the keyway.  Then give the ball
>a sharp blow, while at the same time pulling on the door
>handle.  Up pops the lock. Sort of a pneumatic pick gun.  
>
>I've not had a chance to try this yet.  Has anyone
>else heard of this?  Anyone tried it successfully?

i heard about this some months ago, but with a different explaination. it was
supposed to work on central locking cars.. the sudden pressure opened a
contact, and all the locks opened. there's no way it could be actually picking
the lock though. you'd need things like pneumatic seals around the lock
(inside as well) to make sure the pressure was actually applied to the pins.
and with most car locks being (as far as i know) wafer locks, and quite
stiff.. i doubt it would work. but triggering the central locking may do... i
don't know :)

hugs,
Snow

--
  The 
  best way
   to avoid responsibility
 is to say, "I've got
  responsibilities."
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:21:50 GMT

berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >Possession of picks, contrary to what Chris said, is not a crime in most
: >areas of the country. I do believe that it is in the District of Columbia.
: >I don't think that any states have laws against possession - although some
: >cities may.
: *----
: Most places have laws against "possession of burglar tools" or something
: similar.  I know somebody who was charged with this because of lock picks
: in his possession.  It could also apply to a screwdriver under the right
: circumstances.

Under the right circumstances, then just about anything could be considered
a "burglary tool" - including your credit cards.

They are not burglary tools, unless you use them for such a purpose. Now,
if you are burglarizing a house, and are caught - then you will be charged
for possession of such tools. If you are walking down the sidewalk, with  
them in your pocket, then there is little or no danger. Any such charge
would be thrown out, in court.

In the District of Columbia - they specifically make possession of "lock
picks" illegal. I know of no other place where this is true.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:26:40 GMT

trimblte@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Todd E Trimble) writes:
: 
: 2)  If faced with the "he won't kill me-I'll run" scenario, I think my  
: first shot with a shot gun would be at the calves of the fleeing thief.   
: This would stop, but not kill the involved party.  Sure, the charge could  
: still be leveled "Assualt w/a deadly weapon" or some-such, but it ain't  
: murder, and I'm not sure the case would even be brought.  There is that  
: fuzzy line of what "protecting one's person, family and property" entails.   
: If I fire a goodly sized charge of buckshot into the calves of any  
: would-be-thief, and (s)he STILL has the gumption to get away, it won't be  
: hard to find them in a gutter or hospital the next morning.

Unfortunately, you would find yourself in court - as a defendant - being
sued by the person you shot. And, the person would collect - such is the
stupidity of our current legal system. That person would then own you, 
very possibly for the rest of your life.

I suggest you have a long talk with a few law enforcement officers, before
you decide that this is the best course of action.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:28:36 GMT

hendefd@mail.auburn.edu (Frank Henderson) writes:
: Well, Auburn's library seems to be following the hide it theme.
: I tried to find a book on locksmithing and received this info:
:  Title:          Police guide to lock picking & improvised lock picks.         
:  Publication Information:
:                  Cornville, Ariz. : Desert Publications, 1976.   
:  Description:    60 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:                            Item no longer available.
: 
: 
:  Author:         Roper, C. A. (Carl A.)
:  Title:          The complete handbook of locks & locksmithing
:  Publication Information:                                                  
:                  Blue Ridge Summit, Pa. : G/L Tab Books, c1976.             
:  Description:    390 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:   
:                            Item no longer available.
: 
: I guess I should ask and find out why.

More than likely, they were stolen - either by someone who was too cheap
to purchase a copy for themselves, or by someone who felt such material
should not be on the library shelves.  It would be interesting to double
check, however. It would be a shame if someone had bowed to the censorship
demands of some locksmith or police department.

Bill