From: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:39:34 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Reply-To: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
NNTP-Posting-Host: geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Orig-To: an1600@anon.penet.fi (homeless)
Originator: gwydion@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In soc.religion.islam you write:

>Dear Sir,

>Thank You very much for each one of you who have
>send a message to me.

>My problem was : "I want to organise a party 
>for all of my friends", but unfortunately I don't
>know exatly what the program should be.

>I have friends, which are Islam, Christiant, Hindu 
>and from various origin.

>When I discussed with some muslem friends of mine,
>they had many answers, some agree and some disagree.
>I try to satisfy everybody, that's why i got these 
>questions.

>My question is :"Are there any diversity in Islam ?
>or How the muslems see others who are not doing the
>same as them". I don't know of many kind of Islam exist,
>like the Christiant. Christiant has Baptized, Pantaekosta
>and many others.

>Thank you all for the suggestions,
>Annon

In fact Islam as a divine message has only two sources:
1- The Quran
2- The life of Muhammed (SAW), which is an exemplification of the Quran.

There is only one version of the Quran, but there are different versions
of the life of the Prophet Muhammed (saw), however, the different
versions have a slight difference in some peripheral matters, but no
difference about the basic and the main issues of Islam.

However, people may differ in their knowledge, in their sincerity, and
in their capability of inference, and thus may produce slightly different 
interpretations of the Quran, as you will see in the following messages.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: suresh@iss.nus.sg (Suresh Thennarangam - Research Scholar)
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam


>I think your explanation about dancing is rather simplistic .. also your
>inferences about dancing are not very valid given the verses you have
>quoted. Also, this would not really apply to mixed male-female dancing 
>if the people in question were legally married. Dancing is a form of
>art and expression of music .. folk and community dancing where both
>males and females participate don't have any sexual connotations. 

>About discos and other such places where the atmosphere is as you describe
>and intoxicants are served I would agree with your views but you do
>dancing a great disservice  by your generalization.

In fact What I wrote was an answer to the question given above, so I
hope that the context of my answer is clear.

About the dancing of a legally married couple, you mentioned as an example 
of acceptable dancing, I  would say that given the context provided by the 
question, that sort of dancing in unacceptable.

It is not the dancing itself which is forbidden, it is the atmosphere given
in the question that makes it unacceptable. You can dance the whole day
alone in your room, or with your wife and family at home, but you cannot
do that in a disco.
Sex is lawful between a man and his wife, but you cannot do that in
public. You are not committing adultary in doing that but you are
spreading corruption among other people.

>Khuda Hafiz,


>      __                  
>     (_   / /  o_   o  o |_
>     __)/(_( __) (_(_ /_)| )_

>***************************************************************************
To: tehhhal@ioe.ac.uk
Orig-To: tehhhal@ioe.ac.uk (MR HANIF LADHA)
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam

In soc.religion.islam you write:

>In <1i5poeINNdvr@life.ai.mit.edu> ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie writes:

>>.....              It is forbidden for a muslim to be in a company 
>>of (sitting with) other people while they are drinking intoxicants, even
>>if he is drinking only pure water.     It is also forbidden for a muslim to 
>>take any role of handling intoxicants; selling, manufacturing, carrying, 
>>providing raw materials, ..etc.

>On what basis do you claim that "It is forbidden for a muslim to be in a
>company of (sitting with) other people while they are drinking
>intoxicants..."?  

It is based on the Quran, the verse provided in my reply, and the
Prophet Muhammed (SAW) tradition that specified different categories of
people who can be cursed in connection with intoxicants. some of these
categories are specified in my reply.


>There are many places where people consume alcohol apart
>from public drinking houses, restuarants for example.  You also see people
>drinking in the streets.  To be a *proper* muslim do have to avoid all such
>areas.  Based on your claim a *proper* muslim living in UK or Ireland would
>not have many (if any) non-muslim friends, since majority of them would
>drink. 

Even Muslims (claimed) are not supposed to be taken as friends if they
drink. Intoxicants should be shunned/avoided in any circumstances.

Taking friends is a very important issue, that a Muslim should consider.
The Prophet(SAW) gave many Hadeeth about that:

" Man is influenced by the character of his friend, so let every one of
you considers whom he takes as friend".

" The example of the good friend and the bad friend is like perfume
seller, and the blacksmith respectively. The perfume seller, he either
presents you some perfume, or you may buy some or at least you get a
nice smell with him. On the other hand, the black smith, either he burns
your clothes or body, or you have a bad smell with him"

To talk to people, be kind to them, cooperate with them, help them is
not coditional on drinking. You should tell your non-muslim friends 
about your stand from intoxicant, and clearly, and I don't think any
sensible friend will try to impose his drinks on you, knowing your
situation.



>>2- Dancing:
>>~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Dancing, I mean mixed dancing, male and female, is a step towards
>>adultary, through sexual stimulation. The environment of dancing, in
>>general, is a mixture of: consumption of intoxicants, sexual stimulation
>>through music and body movement and direct contact between male and
>>female. This environment makes the distance towards adultery very short,
>>and thus should not be the place for a muslim to go, but a situation to
>>avoid.

>Certainly some dance forms are sexually explicit.  However, there is a lot
>of mixed dancing which is not sexually explicit (or implicit).  You seem to
>be against all types of dancing since it involves music and body movement,
>all of which according to you leads to sexual stimulation.  Does this mean
>muslims cannot listen to music?  A lot of people dance because they are
>enjoying the music, not necessarily for sexual excitment.

>One can cite many examples which show that music and dance are sexual in
>their expression.  But by making a blanket statement against dancing are
>you not depriving muslims (in particular) a wonderful expression of
>creativity?

Please read my reply to the previous and similar message.


>Are you content living in your present circumstances?  I am not trying to
>be silly.  I am interested in knowing how you are able to function in the
>society you live in.  From your email address you not exactly living in an
>*Islamic* soceity. How do you resolve, for yourself, the conflicts which
>undoubtedly arise between your surroundings and your belief system?

If it is a personal question, I will tell you that Alhamdulillah, My
surrounding is more Islamic than any surroundings in any of the many
Muslim countries I have lived in or visited. And I am content living my
current circumstances, otherwise, I wouldn't be living here If I feel
that I will be wasting the hereafter.


>>A real muslim should not go to such situations, and he should be clear
>>so as to explain exactly why he doesn't want to be in such situations and 
>>he shouldn't feel shy and he should not lie by giving false execuses.

>My aim is not to attack your beliefs just to propose some questions for
>thought.  Looking forward to your thoughts.

The best thing to consider for real thoughts is to think about why we
are here " I (Allah) haven't created Jinn and Man but that they should 
serve me"

How long are we going to live?
What are we taking with us from this life?
What will be the situation for us in the hereafter?


>Regards,

>Hanif.
>-- 


Ahmed I. El-Habbash,
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.