From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Elves in Tolkien and Folklore
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:03:53 GMT



Okay, I just thought of some stuff concerning the fay I'd like
to post.

Now, I know this is gonna sound nuts, but it reall makes me
crazy when someone says "elf" when they mean "sidhe".

What's the difference you say?  Well, it's really a matter of 
location.  As a Celtic mythology nut, a lot of modern fantasy
has budded me.  Especially the recent Misty Lackey's co-
authored books about elves.  In "Knight of Ghosts and Shoadows"
and the subsequent books in the SERRAted Edge series, there
were elves swaering by Dana (and a mispelled Dana at that, in the
first few books).  This was finally corrected in one of the later
novels, as one character explains that they call themselves "elves"
becasue humans are no longer familiar with the word "sidhe", which
is pronounced "shee" and therefore leads to gender confusion.

Okay.  I'll buy that.  If only in the same book the authors hadn't 
mis-translated banshee as Bane-Sidhe ("Death of Sidhe" it said)
which makes no sense, and the only possible translation is "bean-sidhe",
woman of the sidhe.  They had a banshee that was MALE, and was
named over and over as a banshee, incorrectly.  I can understand toying
with legend and miythology a little, but this particular instance
just made we wanna scream.

The Sidhe are not elves.  The Alfar are elves.  The Tuatha de Dannan
came from Greece (according to most legends) and arrived in Eire,
which was then populated with others of their kind, the branches of the 
family of Nemed.  Also, the Dananns were never gods in the true sense.
They were larger than life heroes with great power, but in no way could they
really be called gods.  They names were used in religion, as aspects
of the God and Goddess, and certain attributes were connected with the names,
but that's different.  This is getting a little hard to explain,a nd
I'm getting off track.

The sidhe are from ireland.  They can't be called elves.  Elves come from
the northen who came to England and Ireland.  The wlesh have their own
version of the sidhe and elves, the Twyl Teg (I think that's how that's 
spelled), the Bendith y Maumau.

I'm just airing stuff that has bugged me for a long time.  It can be said
that all the Elder Races (teh sidhe, the elves, etc.) are the same race, but
I just don't buy it.  They're not compatable to me.   The best books I've
read thsu far dealing with the sidhe and our world have been by Tom Deitz,
(Windmaster's Bane and all its sequels).


As to the sidhe being halfway fallen angels, this is christian nonsense.
As Ireland became christian, the Tuatha de Dannans changed, slowly, until
what were once 6' tall magical men and women, became elizibethan sprites,
pixies, boggarts, nixies and pucas.  The old stories were sometimes
re-written with christian overtones, hence the fallen angel idea.

I have been casually looking into this, due to my interest in writing a book
where the idea of  Faerie (the place) oweing a tiend to Hell, and I was looking
for teh origin of this idea.  No one coudl tell me.  I know I've heard it
in connection with the scots ballad "Tam Lin", and I'm still looking.


I knwo that most modern fantasy is influenced by Tolkien, hence the 
most common "elves", but I do so liek it when a story is well researched
and deals well with the Elder race it means to present.  I know I
shouldn't be so picky when it comes to mythology and legend, as these are
often shadowy and uncertain at best, but as I've said, its a particularity
of mine.

COmments and flames are welcome.  I liek to knwo if I've amde anyone
think, even if its nasty thought aimed in my general direction that 
they're thinking.....

LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine | "When you remove the pin, Mr Hand
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    |  Grenade is no longer your friend"
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
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