From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:35:18 GMT
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1993Jan7.154140.8226@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.092921.16072@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan7.032637.16456@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>>>Why is it "racist" to prefer one race over another in a sexual context?  
>>
>>It isn't....I would never rule out a person because of his color, but
>>God I hope he is dark!!!!!
>
>>This shit about it being racist is trash.
>
>I think the comments here have been a bit facile.

Possibly, but my reaction is to the other great great generalization out 
there that I am a bigot because of my preference for darker skined people.....

  Not because I necessarily
>disagree with them, but that the situation is so much more complicated than

I would only like to add that in "some" situations, it is so much more
complicated......But then again the reasons I like darker colored men
are also more complicated....not just the color of one's skin.  I love
Hispanic men who have close ties to Hispanic traditions and culture.  I miss
the Hispanic influence that was so very very prevelant in San Antonio....


>that, and to simply reduce this to a "matter of personal preference" as if
>there might not be something else going on there, is to be open to the
>charge of cluelessness.


Agree whole heartedly.  But then again in the context that I am coming
from this would not apply to me personally....and I would venture to
guess to a few other people out there either....

>
>Listen, when 80% or more of the personal ads say "GWM seeks GWM", what does
>this say to men of color who might not be as discriminating?

Get in line.....no fats, no fems, no HIV+, straight acting only, no bars,
....and on.  When I read the ads, yes I even read the GWM ads, I usually
see something that I might like once a month or so....And that is
using 4 different sources in the Oregon area......

   When most of
>these GWM's have grown up in a segregated society such that even the idea
>of having sex with someone who is not their race doesn't even _occur_ to them,

This is very probable.....and it is sad.  


>how can you reduce this simply to a matter of "personal preference"?  

Because I, Bil Snodgrass III, said it was  a personal preference.
That word personal is the key to my statement. 


It's
>not "personal preference", it's usually blind acceptance of the conventions
>which they've grown up with which echo the racism in our society.  

Sadly it is for the most part....but then again you would think that I
a white male would perfer white men when I really don't get too turned on
by them.  If I went by your model I would have prefered white men
first, then when I opened up my mind and became interested in darker colored
people, wouldn't I still like white men?


And for
>some of them, it's more blatant racism.

Hell you don't even have to talk about the dating part to see the
racism in our GLBO community....It is unbelievable and it shouldn't
be tolerated in our community....


>
>This is not to say that you can dictate on an individual level what is
>appropriate behavior, but to refuse to look at what might be going on
>on a personal level or more systemically under the excuse that's it's
>all "personal preference" is typical white-boy cluelessness.

So much of what you are saying is so true, but then you seem
to say that I am a typical White-Boy cluelessness......
So not only are you not recongizing me for my true individualism, but
you are also generalizing that I am a racist.

I am not a racist.....sorry to disappoint you and blow your generalization
of me out of the water....


>
>>Just like some folks out
>>there trying to say it is wrong not to be attracted to fat men. (I am
>>fat and I am not attracted to fat men.)  It is all preference, personal
>>preference.......
>
>Yeah, yeah, self-hatred doesn't have much to do with it, does it?

You want an excuse for everything?  .I really don't know why some
men like fat men...I am clueless....but they do and I was lucky to
have one that made me realize that I am a beautiful person....
especially when society has told me all my life that I am a gross
pig.....


I have noticed that whenever you discuss weight issues you very
often project your own negative feelings about your own weight on to other fat
people.  

>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer


Bil Snodgrass III
(possibly the closest we have ever agreed Steve)