From: ghg@en.ecn.purdue.edu (George Goble)
Subject: Re: Concern For Ozone Depletion Clear, Knowledge of CFCs Mostly
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 23:21:07 GMT

In article <1713@airgun.wg.waii.com> miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>In article <71868@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>>A refrigerator typically has welded or brazed seals all the way
>>around.  An automotive air conditioner is driven by a belt off the engine,
>>hence there is at least one rotating joint which must be sealed.  The rest
>>of the system also has places where leaks can occur.  Because of vibration
>>the system cannot be welded or brazed together.
>
>Actually, if properly designed and assembled, auto AC leaks very little.
>I've seen cars go 5 years or more without needing to be topped off.
>Not as good as a fridge, but not bad all the same. "if" is,
>of course, the operative word.

Atochem told me once that the average car leaks 1/2lb of CFC-12 per year.
It is lower in the warranty period (3 years), but worsens with time.
A car holds approx 3lb of CFC-12, a fridge is lucky to have 1/2 lb for
a total charge.  When cars get old, the owners troddle off to K-Mart
and used to (not anymore) pick up a few "blow off" cans of "Freon"
to top 'er off.  I have seen A/C hoses on a 4 year old Dodge Omni which
had turned to powder and crumbled in your hand.  Somebody trying to save
a few cents someplace.

>>So a home refrigerator is really not very comparable to an automotive air
>>conditioner.  The latter leaks and needs to be refilled every few years.
>
>Or more if you have a Ford with those STUPID quick-connect joints (notice I
>did not say quick-DISconnect).
>
>Who dreamed those up, anyway?
Those sure suck don't they?  Local A/C shops curse at them all the time.
One local shop, Deerr's Radiator & A/C, Lafayette, IN, uses a type of
"green" O-Ring + self-sealing refrigerant (GHG R-12 substitute, sealant
invented by Cryo-CHem Intl, Brunswick GA, refrigerant invented by me,
US patent 5,151,207) to help contain those damn Ford spring-lock connectors.

If you don't mind 1.5 lbs of hydrocarbons in your A/C system, one can
use 79% propane, 21% isobutane (by weight) as a drop-in substitute for
Freon-12 (CFC-12) in your auto-A/C.. I ran a car that way for 3 months,
no problems.  Look at that 20 gals of gasoline on the tank.

WHen the Eco-Nazi "Freon-Police" leave us without R-12, somebody is bound
to go to their local camping store, and buy a 6oz can of "isobutane"
camping fuel, and then a 16 oz propane torch refill.  Crock up the
can taps and fittings, charge in the isobutane first, then the propane,
and you have ozone safe A/C again.  Not affected by moisture as 
are the freons.. Pull a good vacuum first.  That works out to be
73% propane, 27% isobutane, but hey, it is close 'nuff.  Don't use
straight propane, or the pressures will be too high.

>--
>Griff Miller > miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com < use this for email.
>
>          *** My opinions are mine, not Western's. ***
>
>   "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but 
>    fools despise wisdom and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 

--ghg
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism