HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Armenia in 'Droms
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 02:22:16 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Sep9.021001.13100@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>I beleve that it is breaf when Piemur first meets her and her husband in 
>his wanderings (if this took place in the white dragon then I stand corected)

Said meeting took place *only* in _Renegades_.

>ELF-KIN

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rosebud@carson.u.washington.edu (June Bug)
Subject: Weyrwoman seniority
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:30:07 GMT

Does anybody have any theories on exactly how the seniority of 
weyrwomen goes?  It occured to me thatit could be either age of 
of the dragon with no respect to dragon generations (as many
gold dragons could be older than their aunts with five yearsor less
between generations), age of the dragon with respect to generations,
or age of the rider.

It matters which when you consider that Kylara spent four years "out"
of time.  Time enough to hatch one clutch with her Prideth, which is 
the same number Ramoth had.  So when they came back they had lived four
years "out" of time together, plus however much time before they went
back.  How old was Ramoth at the time?  Were they the same age?

And this also brings to mind a later reference comparing Wireneth and
Prideth, as if they were both young beasts, where its seems to me
that Prideth is nearly as old, or older than Ramoth!

What do you think?

Clarica
rosebud@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Names of weyrbred
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 05:57:04 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Sep13.230044.2035@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>I was re-reading dragonflight(1st book) and noticed something odd.
>When Kylara bears her first child (sired by T'bor) lessa comments to
>F'lar that it was better that she named it T'kil rather than T'lar to
>keep there from being any confusion and yet F'lar and lessa's son is named
>felassan (shortened to f'lessan when he impresses)
>
>So does the shortened form imply EITHER weyrbred or rider?
>Are there any other examples of sons born in the weyr in any of the books
>other than n'mekke (sp?) to n'ton and brekke in AtWoP?

Two explanations: Either Anne McCaffrey hadn't decided why male
riders had honorifics when she wrote DragonFlight (wherein
dragons have scales, Lytol's dragon was green, etc), or else
Kylara was breaking the rules and traditions be giving her son a
rider's honorific when he wasn't a rider.

In either case, its the only example. Dragonflight is
consistantly contradicted by all of the later books. Just ignore
these things. Anne does tend to make things up as she goes along.

Joshua
| Tremble only if you build false accounts and stand pridefully upon them    |
|                                       - Lord Leto II, God Emperor of Dune  |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
From: phoenix@meltdown.chi.il.us (Danielle Ostach)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Pregnancy and between--vaguely MU*-centered, be warned.
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:24:08 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

There are several references and examples of between on pregnancies. I believe
it was in dragonquest that Felessan was discussed as being Lessa's only child
since too much between prevents her from carrying from carrying to term. Also
Lady Gemma travels between to Ruatha just before Jaxom is born. I think there
was also a reference to Kylara's promiscuous behavior and that F'lar was
thankful that the travel between would prevent children.
 
During the first few months of a pregnancy, a fetus is much more vulnerable and
easier to kill than later month. The intense cold of between on the body could
kill off a young fetus while one near birth would have its own circulatory
system and bloodflow to help keep itself warm in addition to the protections
around it. 
 
Having run several healer character on the games, I always followed the rule of
no between for the first x months and very little after that since it can cause
premature birth. Keep in mind also that Gold riders don't need to go between as
often as a fighting rider. The Queen's wing flies at lower levels and cleans up
and so there is much fewer thread to dodge and the flame thrower would sear any
about to hit from above. Queens also do not need to train in fighting as
constantly. Fighting dragons are constantly going between while practicing
skipping in formation and during falls. This means queen riders are much more
likely to be able to manage carrying a child to the one or two month point in
the first place, let alone to term.
 
There is also the matter of duty. I can't imagine a weyr allowing a rider to
skip out on formation practice between or falls during the first couple of
months just because she thinks she might fertile enough to catch and become
pregnant. This means almost all fighting riders will never have children except
perhaps if their dragon is injured.

The problem is never covered in the books very well since the only fighting
rider who is female is Mirrim and after her impression there are few scenes
with her and none that might discuss her life outside the events of the moment.
Lessa is mentioned as carrying one child but that between has prevented her
from ever having more and the other Weyrwomen are barely mentioned.
 
Danielle
aka Telkara @ PernMUSH
From: ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: alt.fan.pern
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:15:53 GMT
	<1992Sep14.155423.1@acad2.alaska.edu>
Organization: Redheads Anonymous
In-reply-to: asdlk@acad2.alaska.edu's message of 14 Sep 92 19:54:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.155423.1@acad2.alaska.edu> asdlk@acad2.alaska.edu writes:

   For those who do not like the above statement, It is said in one of the books
   that there are many people who live and work in the wyre and don't ride
   Dragons.  A large number of these other people must be women.  Those riders
   whose dragons were mating would get with a consenting person and engage each 
   other in whatever is desired.  

No, those riders whose dragons are mating, mate with each other.  Our
morals, our likes and dislikes, have no effect on the morals of Pernese
society.  If it cheers you up any, remember that the Weyr morals were
widely considered to be loose at best.

				AMBAR
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: nlaughli@jarthur.claremont.edu (Neil S. Laughlin)
Subject: Re: Aramina
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:28:40 GMT

In article <92Sep09.021700.25012@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>
>As for her telepathic prowess, she claims to hear 'something sad,
>so I don't try to hear it'. People have suggested the dolphins,
>but they are neither telepathic, nor a singular, and probably not
>very sad. I favour Aivas as a candidate. It gets 2 out of three
>(sad, as it can't complete its objectives, a singular, and who
>knows what Aramina can pick up).
>
>Joshua
>| Tremble only if you build false accounts and stand pridefully upon them    |
>|                                       - Lord Leto II, God Emperor of Dune  |
>|                                                                            |
>| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
>
>


	I have an alternate theory, that, although not terribly likely, is
definitely worth mentioning.  Maybe Aramina is hearing...

The Thread.

	After all, AIVAS stated that the Thread is probably an intelligent
lifeform in the Oort Cloud- there's no reason for it not to be a hive mind
out there.  It certainly is sad, since it's dying and being infected by all
kinds of hostile organisms.  And, as Joshua said, there's no telling just
what Aramina can hear.

	Any comments?
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: more on bespeaking
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:28:06 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Sep8.124252.9070@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov> mathews@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jason Mathews - GSFC/514) writes:
>In article <242@aegir.adl.dmt.csiro.au> tjf@adl.dmt.csiro.au (Thomas Fung) writes:
>>> 5. Aramina can talk to any dragon, and also ...
>>
>>Could someone tell me who she is, presuming Aramina is a female,
>>what novel/story she's in and general opinions about such novel/story
>>which I probably haven't read ?  Without being too spoiling please :)
>>
>>I've read most of the Pern Dragonrider books but can't recall anyone
>>called Aramina.
>
>Aramina is from the Renegades of Pern, which takes place at the same time
>as The White Dragon.

While correct in the identification of Aramina (she's also the
heroine of the hard-to-find _The Girl who Heard Dragons_), _The
Renegades of Pern_ starts before _Dragonflight_ and ends almost three
turns *after* _The White Dragon_. ;-)

>>Thomas J. Fung                                tjf@adl.dmt.csiro.au

Kurion@PernMUSH, master of Archives, Fort WeyrHarper, and
                 self-appointed MasterNitPicker. ;-)
-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Subject: Dragon Bespeaking others
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:01:02 GMT

The first time a dragon bespeaks someone who is not their rider,
besides Brekke or Lessa, is when Mnementh speaks to Lord Jaxom
when he discovers the Ancienttimers' room and walks by the bronze
wondering if the dragon had a sense of humour since he "winked"
at Jaxom and Jaxom thinks about the watchwher since he's "the same breed"
Mnementh 'paths "The relationship is very distant."

The others were to the Masterharper, Robinton, by Mnementh.
1) At the Telgar Gather "F'lar needs the Harper" and "Lessa listens"
2) When Robinton brings southern holder Toric to Benden "I know. I have 
          told them you are come."
3) At the Istan flight when the oldtimer's try to fly a young queen
          "I listen. Salth is no more. Help F'lar!"
4) When Robinton suffers his heart attack.


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: emeinfel@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (...)
Subject: Re: Dragon names
Organization: Ferrous Fencing Ferrets Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:44:31 GMT

starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote: 
>
>Now that's interesting, I hadn't noticed that before and don't recall
>ever reading about it here.  But now you mention it, I can't think of
>a dragon whose name doesn't end in 'th'.  Anyone going to try and give
>a reason for this?

Kit Ping genetically programmed the dragons to telepathically lisp proving 
that she does indeed have a sense of humor.  This is of course well
documented in Dragon's Dawn.  :) :) :)
-- 
Edmond L. Meinfelder  // In a gust of wind the white dew 
// On the Autum grass // Scatters like a broken necklace. 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: mortoncp@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Christopher P Morton)
Subject: Re: Dragon Bespeaking others
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 00:27:27 GMT


In article <Bu375r.FJ6@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki  
Finkenstadt) writes:
> The first time a dragon bespeaks someone who is not their rider,
> besides Brekke or Lessa, is when Mnementh speaks to Lord Jaxom
> when he discovers the Ancienttimers' room and walks by the bronze
> wondering if the dragon had a sense of humour since he "winked"
> at Jaxom and Jaxom thinks about the watchwher since he's "the same  
breed"
> Mnementh 'paths "The relationship is very distant."
> 
> The others were to the Masterharper, Robinton, by Mnementh.
> 1) At the Telgar Gather "F'lar needs the Harper" and "Lessa listens"
> 2) When Robinton brings southern holder Toric to Benden "I know. I have 
>           told them you are come."
> 3) At the Istan flight when the oldtimer's try to fly a young queen
>           "I listen. Salth is no more. Help F'lar!"
> 4) When Robinton suffers his heart attack.
> 
In this last one, EVERY dragon speaks to Robinton.  (he keeps refering to  
"urgent voices")  This proves at the least that Mnementh isn't the only  
dragon capable of speaking to others.

One minor point:  anyone else notice that ALL dragon names end in 'th' ?   
If this has been beaten to death already, I apologize.  Just a minor point  
I noticed last time I read 'Quest.

--
--  "Who's the more foolish; the Fool, or the Fool
--  who follows him?"   Obi-Wan Kenobi in "Star Wars"
---------------------------------------------------------
--  Long Live the Memory of Gene Roddenberry
---------------------------------------------------------
--  Chris Morton   mortoncp@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk (Peter Boulter)
Subject: Re: more on bespeaking
Reply-To: starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:25:30 +0000


In article <92Sep03.020059.23162@acs.ucalgary.ca>, jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jos-
hua Bell) writes:
>
>There are also instances of dragons overhearing thoughts of
>people riding them but not their own riders. Not having read the
>books in a while my memory is, of course, questionable. :) I seem
>to recall a person thinking compliments to the dragon, and having
>the dragon's rider chuckle and relay thanks. Was this Robinton or
>someone else?
>
>Joshua
>
>

I seem to recall that on Piemurs first dragon ride he hoped he didn't
hurt the dragon when he mounted, he didn't say this he only thought it,
but the rider turned to him and said that his dragon thanked him for
his concern.   I think dragons 'hear' who they want to, and possibly a
lot more than they let on!

Peter.


-------------------------------------------| Lord of the Hold,
 *   *    Peter Boulter                    |  your charge is sure 
  ***     ---------------------------------| In thick walls, metal doors
 *   *    starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk   |  and no verdure.
-------------------------------------------|             -- Dragonflight.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Pregnancy and between--vaguely MU*-centered, be warned.
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:10:59 GMT

In article <92Sep10.185007.23168@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>In article <BuDG05.GC8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt) writes:
>>I thought that the reference of F'lar to Lessa about no more children after 
>>F'lessan was the result of ::between:: for 400 yrs.  And that Kylara's
>>"just a few more moments between at the right moment" referred to becoming
>>*sterile* not abortion.
>
>Well, given that F'lessan was conceived a few Turns after Lessa's
>400 Turn jump, that blows that theory out of the water. Lessa and
>F'lar just have an infertility problem.
>
 If I remember correctly, it was just that Lessa was too fragile for 
childbearing. Remember, that Leassa is a delicate SMALL woman, and had
complications having F'lessan - not good tidings for future children.
  At one stage F'lar say's "I will not risk you having more children", or 
somethingof that order.

Just my humble opinion, 
  Matthew.
From: laura@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Tygress)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Search for past Pernth riders
Keywords: MicroMuse Muds Muse
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:41:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Dear Gentlefolk and afficianados of Pern

I would like to introduce a small, personal pern.  Focusing upon a more
 sociable theme, rather than Role Playing.  Based on the Original
 Pernth from MicroMuse, but on a new site, I am Searching for my
 Old Riders, including those from when we started years ago,
 to contact me via email for an invitation to Join Us.

 If you'd like to join are STRESS FREE pern, a surprising contrast
 to much of what is available now, please contact me for 
 further information.

Thanks! and Clear skies!

 The Former Laura of MicroMuse and a few other Muds
  aka Tygress / Maori / Mynx / ad nauseum
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Names of weyrbred
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 05:11:03 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Sep14.005432.2037@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>In article <s#ynylj@lynx.unm.edu>, quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep13.230044.2035@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>>>[Description of the "T'kil" problem]
>>>
>>>So the score is 2-2, any sort of logic to this or is this an inconsistency
>>>in the books?
>> 
>> In the past, this has been explained as...
>> 
>> 1) Been explained away as an mistake on Anne's part similar to the
>> "What color was Lytol's dragon?" problem.
>In dragonflight his dragon is blue tagath, where is it mentioned as any
>other?

Blue Tagath was ridden by Weyrharper C'gan.

In _Dragonflight_ F'lar explains how L'tol lost his green dragon to a
training accident.

In _Dragonquest_, Lytol bemoans his lost brown Larth after Jaxom
impresses Ruth.

>(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	| Leadership,Friendship, and Service
>(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	|          Alpha Phi Omega
>(tnc!m0039@uunet.uu.net)	| National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: kruger@math.okstate.edu (Valentine)
Subject: Re: Bitra (was Re: Aramina)
Organization: The Certifiably Insane.  [aka Mush wizards] 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 03:19:25 GMT

In article <18r23vINNm7b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa732@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
>
>In a previous article, ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles) says:
>>Why was a hold named after Avril Bitra - considering her actions?

>The DLG mentions that the founders of Bitra left Benden Hold because they
>thought what Avril did was good and even heroic.. they thought that she
>was one of the only people trying to save Pern from thread, while Benden
>and Boll did nothing to help.

	True. Right after the whole mess with Bitra and Telgar happened
a lot of the rumors floating around the colony were to the effect of
"Bitra was going for help" and "She was trying to save us all". Remember,
most people didn't know exactly what was going on.....
	I just read that part in the book. What good timing. :)

>And besides, it's a place fit only for thieves in the ninth pass... 

	*smirk*  I'm not saying a word about its Lord Holder.

> -Tapin


	Deirdre, Rider of Green Kolith, High Reaches Weyr
		<among many, many others>

-- 
kruger@littlewood.math.okstate.edu  |||  "But what is truth? Is truth 
Deirdre@PernMUSH (wiretap.spies.com)|||  unchanging law? We both have 
Delaney@ValdeMUSH (emcnext.tamu.edu)|||  truths--are mine the same as 
IFGS character of the month: Maria  |||  yours?" --Jesus Christ Superstar 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: raybro@sun1x.actc.res.utc.com (Ray Brohinsky)
Subject: Re: Names of weyrbred
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:41:27 GMT

quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:
: In article <1992Sep13.230044.2035@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
: >[Description of the "T'kil" problem]
: >
: >So the score is 2-2, any sort of logic to this or is this an inconsistency
: >in the books?
: 
: In the past, this has been explained as...
: 
: 1) Been explained away as an mistake on Anne's part similar to the
: "What color was Lytol's dragon?" problem.
: 
: 2) Massive case of presumption and snootiness on the part of Kylara.

I can buy massive presumption and snootiness as far as Kylara goes,
but Brekke and F'nor? no. I'd bet that this was an oversight, like
the dating of ATWOP.

: 
: >(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	| Leadership,Friendship, and Service
: >(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	|          Alpha Phi Omega
: >(tnc!m0039@uunet.uu.net)	| National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity
: 
: 
: -- 
: Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
:  I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
:                           what I have now...

raybro
OrbYar, MasterShipfisher, 11th pass Mistyk Island 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: Armenia in 'Droms
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:10:01 GMT

I beleve that it is breaf when Piemur first meets her and her husband in 
his wanderings (if this took place in the white dragon then I stand corected)

ELF-KIN
From: naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: inconsistencies, observations, and questions
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:21:08 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

> 
> Two explanations: Either Anne McCaffrey hadn't decided why male
> riders had honorifics when she wrote DragonFlight (wherein
> dragons have scales, Lytol's dragon was green, etc), or else
> Kylara was breaking the rules and traditions be giving her son a
> rider's honorific when he wasn't a rider.
> 
> In either case, its the only example. Dragonflight is
> consistantly contradicted by all of the later books. Just ignore
> these things. Anne does tend to make things up as she goes along.
> 
> Joshua
> | Tremble only if you build false accounts and stand pridefully upon them    |
The other inconsitency that I have noticed is that in Dragons dawn,
it is quite specific in that the dragons were engineered with a 
pentadactyl foot (five-fingers) Most of the cover art has dragons with
only four fingers. Other problems with the cover art include relative
size, Ramoth is supposed to be the size of an L-1011 plane and yet
the size differential betweewn queen and rider is much less on the cover.

Ruatha's distance to Fort and location have changed in the various maps.

The speed at which thread can denude the land changes also.

In dragonflight, F'lar is moaning the lack of dragons
in the weyr and yet comments to Lessa that if the Green don't eat fire-
stone the weyr will be hip deep in hatchlings from the greens. Isn't
that what he wants?!?

Mirrim is supposed to be the first female green rider in memory. I'm sure
that this is brought up yearly if not more often, but what sort of 
sexual union if any occurs between the riders during a brown-green
or blue-green mating? (both male) In Moreta, there is a blue rider who times
it so he can be at the bedside of a close friend who rides a green.
The way it is written makes me think that this relationship is a very close
one...

Has this been asked of Anne?

Of course all of these inconsistencies are going to make me hate the series.
:-):-)
--
(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	| Leadership,Friendship, and Service
(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	|          Alpha Phi Omega
(tnc!m0039@uunet.uu.net)	| National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity
"Service to others is the rent that we pay for living on the planet"(quote?)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern