HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: looi@ssf-corp.dhl.com (Wan Looi)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:36:17 GMT
Organization: DHL Worldwide Express, Redwood City, Calif., USA

In article <ystan.718503057@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au> ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan) writes:
>mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
>
>>sci240s@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Wey Jing HO) writes:
>
>>>Are you correct here? If you are, and if I read it correctly, you mean to say
>>>that muslim is not people who believe in certain (namely, Islam) religion?
>
>>In Malaysia, the moment a Malay is born, like it or not, he
>>or she is 'stamped' with Islam, if the person wants to be called
>>Malay & retain Bumiputra status. So Malay, like En. Othman pointed
>>out is not exactly a race, because a Malay who denounces Islam is 
>>not a Malay anymore. Confusing ? Malay is one of the very few
>>peoples where a religion is born with them. In other words there
>>is no freedom of choice of religion for 'Malay'.
>
>"Originally", 
>		Malay 	!=	Muslim ;
>		     (not equal)
>Islam only comes to the "Malays" in ~ the 15th century, when Malacca was the
>busiest trading place ... So why  do they now want to have
>
>		Malay	=	Muslim  ?
>

[ break time begins ]

IMHO, the main reason is more political than anything else. Malay
leaders (sultans included) were/are well aware that the only way 
Malays can hold together and be cohesive among themselves is under
the flagship of Islam. My understanding of Islam is it teaches 
submission to authority, which is in par with what the leaders
(sultans included) wanted/want from their rakyat. It never ceases
to amaze me how two Malays can compromise each other during a 
conflict whenever the buzzword of Islam/Allah is mentioned. 

[ break time ends ]

-looi
-- 
Systems Arch., DHL Airways, Inc., 333 Twin Dolphin Dr, Redwood City, CA 94065
INET: looi@sysarch.attmail.com  UUNET: uunet!dhl!looi
VOICE: (415) 802-4584	FAX: (415) 593-1689

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: elesrini@nuscc.nus.sg (SRINIVASAN (A/P))
Subject: AIRFARES IN SINGAPORE
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:26:20 GMT

In Singapore, at least from media reports, there seems to be a strong
belief in "free markets" and "price competition". Yet Singaporeans pay
the highest airfares excluding probanly the Europeans. Recently several
US airlines have introduced a US $600 two-way fare for SF-Singapore-SF.
I believe this fare is also available on SIA. However there is no
similar offer for flights originating from Singapore to SF - in fact the
two-way fare works out to US $ 1400 ! Another extreme example is the
Singapore-Madras sector: Singaporeans pay S$970 = India Rs 18000.
Indians flying from Madras pay Rs 9500 !  There seems to be no consumer
action in Singapore to correct this situation. Travel agents say that it
is SIA's policy to control these rates - I am surprised that an airline
demanding "open skies" elsewere gets away with it here. Has anyone on
the net thought about this or investigated this.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:TAY,YIAN)
Subject: Re: Is freedom a 'Western' value?
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:28:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services

In article <1992Oct10.055917.24767@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes...
>Mr Khoo Siau Cheng (iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
>: scheme for "four-generation staying together" (don't know what the
>: actual name is) by learning the social problems arised in the western
>: 
>Hey, I do not know that there is such a campaign going on in Singapore.
>Even if there was such a campaign, it is an absolute failure given the
>small size of HDB flats, and the desire by well-off youngsters to live by
>themselves away from their parents.
>	This trend is happening to all races, at least who are more affluent,
>such as graduates.
> 
>The current campaing is to encourage women to marry as early as possible,
>as early as a 4 year old!
               ^^^^^^^^^^^


    Is this another one of your deliberate mistake for readers to
    filter out or a fact??



yian...


> 
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Regular User)
Subject: Re: Singapore:  PC show
Organization:  N.T.U.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 08:34:10 GMT

	If you're referring to the Informatics '92 where 
  discounts galore during the exhibition period, then you
  should note that it starts TODAY and last thru' to this
  weekend (18/10/92).

  	Still can make it to attend if you try, or ask 
  someone to grab some good bargains for you |-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:51:55 GMT

iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng) writes:

> In article <wsuasB2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> vickeong@student.business.u
> > 
> >What we have here is something great.
> > [stuff deleted]
> >we (I say we in the 
> >general sense) were brought up to respect our elders, honour 
> >their teachings, guidance and act on it, WITHOUT QUESTION. And 
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >these are the exact rudiments of the Confucian ethics our 
> >government has been promoting as we matured as a nation. 
> > 
> 
> As much as I like to agree with your entire message, Victor, I beg to
> differ at this point.  There is a different between "Zhong" and
> "Yu-Zhong" (loyalty and blind loyalty). The former is advocated by
> Confucious, but not the latter. 
> Although we are brought up to respect our elders, honor their
> teachings, guidance and act on it, we aren't brought up not to
> question about them. At the very least, I was taught to differentiate 
> between Zhong and Yu-Zhong in my high school.
> 
> -- Siau Cheng
> 
> 
> 

It is true that I have perhaps stretched it a little, but YU 
ZHONG is almost a spinoff from ZHONG - to use an analogy; it's 
like the invariable social ills that creep up in every single 
political decision that we made. There are lots out there who 
do not differentiate between the two, and there are people who 
do - like yourself. 
 
What is important here is that the government in Singapore are 
beginning to realize that people out there (here) know this 
difference and is trying to make every effort to accomodate to 
our needs. Thus the opening of more feedback mechanisms, 
public hearings of legislations and so on.  

vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: fxb6@po.CWRU.Edu (Fabian Bigar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: St Joe, Kuch
Date: 16 Oct 1992 13:29:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Anyone from St Joe, Kuching ? or From Kolej TDT Bujang Miri ?
-- 
Ora Et Labora
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ian Chai)
Subject: Re: Sense of Humour (no apologies for British spelling here)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:45:17 GMT

bem30001@nusunix1.nus.sg (LEE CHEE HOE) writes:
>"Why U so like dat?"
> 

no, no, no, no, no. It's 
	"Wai yoo soh laik dat waaan?"
			      ^^^^^ remember this *important* part

8-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: hs1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Hee-Kang Sii)
Subject: Sibu
Keywords: Sibu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:27:41 GMT

       Anyone out there from Sibu, Sarawak....
       Please respond !
From: q0c192@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Kok Liang Foo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: NTU Comp Tech
Date: 15 Oct 1992 23:10:31 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gambier.rick.cs.ubc.ca

Hi....Looking for any NTU Comp Tech 3rd year students !!!
Please reply to q0c192@rick.cs.ubc.ca if you are one.
Thanks
 /
/=-eon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
From: Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:25:08 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <1992Oct8.123212.17264@newsroom.utas.edu.au> u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia) writes:
>
>No, there are no cameras in toilets nor do the Police patrol toilets in
>search of people who do not flush. 'Officers' from one of the
>other ministries do conduct 'spot-checks' once in a while, presumably
>by using toilets and checking if the chaps using the toilet before or


When I was at Changi earlier this year, I went to the men's room and 
found a man, in an official-looking uniform, seated in a chair facing 
the stalls.  He appeared to be monitoring the activities in the room.  
Can anyone tell me what was going on?

My opinion of Singapore's supposedly draconian laws is that they appear 
to work quite well and probably account for the country's rapid progress 
in the last 3 decades.  I think cleanliness, low crime, efficiency in 
services, etc. seem to be more than an adequate return for such things as not 
having the right to chew gum.
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Is freedom a 'Western' value?
Date: 9 Oct 1992 11:03:18 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: notrees.cs.utexas.edu

An interesting thread, a difficult discussion topic.

To make sure my groundings are alright, I have asked Mr. Webster how he would
define the word democracy:

Democracy \di-mak-ra-se\ n, pl -cies [MF democratie, fr. LL democratia,
fr. Gk Demokratia, fr. demos + -kratia -cracy] (1576) 
1 a: government by the people, esp: rule of the majority 
  b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and 
exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation 
usu. involving periodically held free elections.
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government.
3 cap : relating the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the U.S
4 : the common people esp. when constituting the source of political authority
5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or priviledges

After carefully thinking through the political system of Singapore, I find
it did not violate any of of the above definitions, except of course #3.
The only possible foul play could be that PAP could use their present 
political clout to influence the voters. They could possibily exercised 
unwarranted, subtle, implict threats about economic disaster voters may 
face if PAP are not the one running the show. They might have redistributed
constituencies for the purpose of gerry mandering. They could have delayed the 
annoucement of an election/by-election so that the opposition may not
have enough time to prepare for it. They might have made 75% of the population
stays in HDB flats, so that people have to think twice before they choose who 
to vote for. They might have stripped the benefit of having a PDP run 
kindergarden from the opposition constituencies, and claimed that limited 
funds have to be "properly" allocated to those who voted wisely. They might 
have offered scholarships to the best and the brightest, so that these people 
will eventually work for the government, not the opposition. They might have 
done many other things that are considered unfair, unjust and undemocratic
to outsiders. But, it is because we let them. Remember it is we, the 
Singaporeans who ultimately decide who gets into office. Look at what happen
to the lady who washed her hand after shaking hand with a hawker. We are the
one vested the power to vote, to decide for ourself who is the better person
to represent us, not you the outsider. I will decide my own democracy, a 
government by the people remember, the people really meant Singaporeans only,
in case you are confused.





-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xiu4
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:35:13 GMT
	<1992Oct7.112115.13387@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
	<ld6jgaINN5or@notrees.cs.utexas.edu>
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....

In article <ld6jgaINN5or@notrees.cs.utexas.edu> fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan) writes:

   You can tell me what is wrong with my parent, but to insult them infront
   of me and to expect no hostile response from me, is, either I am too stupid
   to realise you were insulting them, or I am to afraid to response. We are
   neither.

As a Singaporean, I think this an over-reaction.  Just because someone may
believe that Singapore sucks is their right.  The only thing I object to is
outright lies about Singapore.  So far, with the possible minor errors such as
the exact fine for littering or toilet flushing, I don't think any blatant lies
were told.  After all, the REAL point against Singapore laws is that some laws
are ridiculous.  Let's not get stuck in nitpicking, shall we?



--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: clipper@grace.csd.uwo.ca (Khun Yee Fung)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Western
	Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:37:52 GMT

>>>>> On 9 Oct 92 08:59:31 GMT, ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf) said:

oldwolf> I do not think that Doc. Godfrey was disputing your
oldwolf> statement. He was trying to make a comical response.
oldwolf> However, if you feel the need for support, then I too have
oldwolf> also seen similar things in several places in London, and
oldwolf> occassionally in other cities in England and Wales. Haven't
oldwolf> seen such things in Scotland, but maybe I just haven't been
oldwolf> to the "right" toilets. Cannot comment on Ireland. Haven't
oldwolf> been there.

Comical response? I hope you do understand that many people don't
consider the accusation that one's country is not democratic a comical
matter. In my case, I consider that at least a serious matter.  With
or without a sense of humour, it is no humourous reading for them.
Just a laughing matter for him, you say?

And who told you I need support? I have been there. I have been in
washrooms with attendants in Singapore. What support do I need? That
washrooms have attendants and that is not a significant thing? I knew
that a long time ago, thank you very much.

Khun Yee
--
Khun Yee Fung    clipper@csd.uwo.ca
Department of Computer Science
Middlesex College
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
Canada N6A 5B7
Tel: (519) 661-6889
Fax: (519) 661-3515
From: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: BIG BROTHER
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:07:38 GMT
Reply-To: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Mcinnes B T Dr)) says:

>Just to let you know that we at NUS have perfected a device which allows
>us, by analysing your messages to soc.culture.asean, to determine the
>precise nature of your political views. We know all about you, including
>that mole on your nose.
>
>g
>

Jus to let you know that we at YSU have perfected a device which allows
us, by analyzing your messages to soc.culture.asean, to determine the
precise nature of your sister's marital status. We know all about your
sister, including that mole under her...(you-know-where).

Trust me, BO knows your sisters...
From: yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Yew Han Hee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Take it as a joke
Date: 14 Oct 1992 07:43:53 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Rod Swift (rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au) wrote:
: In article <3335@peking.gdwb.oz.au>, mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
: > [partly deleted]
: > 
: > By the way, the latest rumour is that NTU hires him as a clown
: > to entertain the stressful students and staff there. I believe
: > this got to be true ; what else would NTU need him for ??
: > We should count ourselves lucky to have him in this net to 
: > entertain us for FREE! (except of course you got to pay for
: > the pop corn !! :)  )
: 
: I spotted him as "Bozo the Clown" when I was in NUS recently while
: making an overseas tour of the SE Asian region.
: 
: His red nose looks extremely silly.
: 
: Mabe he could do better as a performing seal or a puppet.  He seems to
: be well suited as a puppet, but who will stick their hand where to operate
: the said puppet.
: 

Personally, I feel that it is too much.

Mr.Othman Ahmad might has his own point of view, and it might be too
extreme, but, it is a much more childish action to make joke of others 
up to his/her opinion. 

Have you ever heard about a statement, saying '"Right", is everybody
accepted "Wrong"!' He might not point out any idea that you think it is
right, but, that's his own point of view, from his own prospective, is
there anything wrong? If there is, it is "wrong" on yourself, for having
not space to store a different opinion!

Try not to presume other people is mentally weaker than you, he/she
might has said something that you will never understand with your
current narrow minded!

Sincerely,
yewhan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yew Han Hee (Yao1 Han4)            yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
  University Of Western Australia    hee_y@dropbear.cs.uwa.edu.au
  Computer Science 2nd year          Tel: +61 (09) 389 1128
  Add: 3/70, Broadway, Nedlands, 6009 Western Australia, Australia.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Avoid all evils, Do all goods; 
        Cleanse your Heart, That's all the teaching of Buddha. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh)
Subject: Re: Malaysia's Atom PC=M$1600
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:26:03 GMT

rezal@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman) writes:

>In article <1992Oct11.180819.3619@memstvx1.memst.edu> ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>>
>>	Only in USA.  In M'sia, the price of PCs is still very high, for 386's
>>and above.  486's still cost M$12000 and above (the cheapest I saw, list priced
>>at M$15000+).  I believe that prices for computers are quite high (due to
>>taxes) in UK and Australia too...
>>
>	Prices have dropped fortunately. One company was offering a
>complete 486-SX system and was throwing in an HP deskwriter for around
>M$5200. Another company was offering a 486 for around M$4000. These
>were ads that I saw from NST's Computertimes.

That's good news. I find it "disturbing" that the government is placing
taxes on computers. I feel that they should be duty free as this would
promote a wider usage of computers in Malaysia....isn't it the route to
an industrialised country ? Any reason why the taxes are there ?

In fact, they should even be subsidized to allow those in the lower income
group to have access to a computer, if the government is serious about
promoting wider usage of computers !    

Just a thought...... :-) 

>-rezal

>-- 
>+============================================================================+
>| Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman          "A ship in the harbor is safe but that   |
>| rezal@leland.stanford.edu          is not why ships are built for..."      |
>| alfisti@white.stanford.edu           				             |
From: hw0r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Heng Wong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:01:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Ieow2aa00WBKM8sNtR
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   OK, there's been a lot of talk going on about this Singapore thing,to
start things off: I am Singaporean, I am returning to Singapore, I am
not ashamed of being a Singaporean. 
    From what I have seen, Godfrey was airing a view, he stated a fact
and a lot of people took offense at that. People are jumping down his
throat for something he posted and that was uneccesary, I think a lot of
the laws in Singapore are pointless myself. If you don't like them don't
go back. If you support them and believe they are good, don't get your
knickers in a twist when somebody criticizes them.
    Human rights are good, yes. Never questioning the authorities is
not. Have you ever read '1984'? I'm not calling anyone Big Brother, but
if we follow without questioning, doesn't that just take away a little
bit more of our humanity? If the Singaporean way was to always obey what
we were told, nothing new would ever be learned. That's why most of us
are in  school for. To learn.KInd of self-defeatist, eh?
    Maybe I missed something and this entire post is pointless and
stupid, but maybe it isn't. Flame wars are good, but name calling and
bickering are another thing. Moderation, love it.
_______________________________________________________________________
Love is the delusion that one woman differs from another.

                                             Kit.  hw0r@andrew.cmu.edu
                                             (412) 268-5464
_______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean