HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A State Where Turks Can Now Live Unmolested and Free.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:20:15 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <Jan22.215231.69399@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis) writes:

>I call them Cypriots and they are citizens of the republic of Cyprus and
>should you get reading more history and geography you will find that
>Cyprus is an indepentent state.

No kidding. Nobody has the right to ask the people of Turkiye to go 
through another decade of nightmare just so that the Greek governments 
could give another chance to the Greek Army to slaughter more innocent 
Turks. Greeks had their chance between 1960 and 1974. But they proved 
beyond any doubt that Turkish lives and rights mean nothing next to the 
intoxication of their Pan-Hellenistic utopias. 

The Turkish action is in conformity with Turkish history, law and 
tradition, let alone with the international law. In 1974 the Junta 
of Greek Colonels sent in a terrorist by the name of Sampson, who 
toppled Makarios' government and began preparations to have Cyprus 
annexed to 'democratic' Greece. At the same time the Greek-Cypriots 
began wholesale massacres of Turkish villagers to simply eliminate
the Turkish Cypriots. It was this event that forced the Turkish 
Army to land in Cyprus on July 20, 1974 and to secure the Northern
part of the island. All Turks were moved to the North and eventually
that led to the formation of the Turkish Republic of Northern 
Cyprus, where Turks can now live unmolested and free. The 'democratic'
government of Greece did not go to war, but its large force on the
Island was badly defeated. The Greeks could not swallow this defeat.
There is a Turkish saying that one cannot cover up the sun with
mud.

It is also somewhat ironic to hear the name of Greek governments
mentioned in international terrorist meetings. In July 1982, a 
mere day after his interview over the telephone with the prominent 
French Journalist, Charles Villenevue (the same person who later 
interviewed terrorist Melkonian), Hagopian was falsely reported by 
ASALA as having been killed in Beirut by an Israeli air raid. Instead, 
he apparently shifted his activities to Greece and Syria, and began a 
working relationship with the anti-PLO Palestinian radical Abu-Nidal.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Islam and apostacy
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:47:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1993Jan25.225002.18958@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:
>>
>>"The blood of a Muslim can only be spilt legally on one of three occasions:
>>a married adulterer, a soul for a soul, and he who abandons his religion
>>and leaves the congregation (of Muslims)."
>
>I doubt the authenticity of this Hadith.  And, since you are such a great
>expert on Islam, perhaps you can reconcile the alleged Hadith for me with 
>(the authenticated) Hadith that says ``La `Ikrah fi al-Deen,'' which 
>translates to ``There is NO Compulsion in Religion.''

I beleive the above is Quran not hadith.

zeyd
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:52:57 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: talk,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.think.com

In article <4674@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
|> 
|> WE SHALL OVERCOME    gideon ehrlich   ERETZ YISRAEL

If I read out only the capitalized words, I'm afraid that this is what
is currently happenning.  Question is, what will be left afterwards...?

-- 
Shai Guday              | Stealth bombers,
OS Software Engineer    |
Thinking Machines Corp. |	the winged ninjas of the skies.
Cambridge, MA           |
From: kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon)
Subject: Re: islam & ethnicity
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:33:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.003317.12485@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.212038.16946@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>>Too bad, however, that so many Jews
>>in the past were beheaded, or, if they were lucky, deported, because
>>they didn't want to go through this simple process.
>
>It is so nice of you to shift the discussion, by adding this last statement.   
>No one here is, indeed no one can, excuse the crimes against Jews that were
>made in the name of Christianity/Islam/etc  in the past or in the future.

I think the reason Danny added this is because this thread has been
about ethnocentricity of Jews.  Wouldn't you consider it ethnocentric to
feel you have some divine right, even obligation to kill someone simply
because that person worships G-d (the same G-d as yours) in a different
way?  

Keren  

>>-Danny Keren.
>
>Waleed Muhanna
>
>-=-
>"the man dies in all who keep silent in the face of tyranny"
>			Wole Soyinka, Nobel Laureate.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26364 alt.revisionism:984 soc.history:11023
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.revisionism,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac - Grafeneck: The Gassings Begin
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:09:35 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan23.090003.17193@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>"Around Grafeneck signs were posted: `Danger -- Epidemic,' and all access
>was barred. The exterminations rose to an average of more than thirty a day.
>Since it was awkward, time-consuming, and too expensive to kill so many with
>drugs, Criminal Police Commissioner Wirth devised a method for mass
>extinction. The people, upon arrival, were undressed, given a one-minute
>physical examination, then herded into a shed whose walls had been mortered
>and sealed. Since many of these patients, removed from their accustomed

There are times when the simplest of events call all of one's
existential motives into question. It is not surprising, that 
Armenians collaborated with the Nazis.

 "Wholly opportunistic the Dashnaktzoutun have been variously
  pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish,
  as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and 
  anti-Soviet - whichever was expedient."[1]

[1] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), 'Cairo to Damascus,' 
    Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438.
  
As a dear friend put it, the Tzeghagrons (Armenian Racial Patriots) 
was the youth organization of the Dashnaktzoutun. It was based in
Boston (where ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle is located) but 
had followers in Armenian colonies all over the world. Literally
Tzeghagron means 'to make a religion of one's race.' The architect
of the Armenian Racial Patriots was Garegin Nezhdeh, a Nazi Armenian
who became a key leader of collaboration with Hitler in World War II.
In 1933, he had been invited to the United States by the Central
Committee of the Dashnaktzoutun to inspire and organize the 
American-Armenian youth. Nezhdeh succeeded in unifying many local
Armenian youth groups in the Tzeghagrons. Starting with 20
chapters in the initial year, the Tzeghagrons grew to 60 chapters
and became the largest and most powerful Nazi Armenian organization.
Nezhdeh also provided the Tzeghagrons with a philosophy:

 "The Racial Religious beliefs in his racial blood as a deity.
  Race above everything and before everything. Race comes first."[1]

[1] Quoted in John Roy Carlson (real name Arthur Derounian), "The
    Armenian Displaced Persons," in 'Armenian Affairs,' Winter,
    1949-50, p. 19, footnote.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26340 soc.culture.usa:10218 soc.culture.turkish:15107
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Methods used by the Hitler's Mentor in the genocide of Muslim people.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 21:36:09 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <9301281356.AA14311@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Interesting; this all is ONE sentence; try saying it without pausing
>to catch your breath if you can...

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Well, why not?

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). 
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 203 (second paragraph).

"One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the 
 ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about
 it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.
 The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed
 sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and
 other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the
 dead."

p. 204 (first paragraph).

"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of
 a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make
 my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy
 that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of
 a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a
 Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her
 throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a
 year old."

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26370 rec.arts.books:26537
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:33:13 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <C19F2L.EpC@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan) writes:
> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
# [ A large chunk of biased and uninteresting stuff sent to /dev/null ]
# 
# In your comments and long quotations touching on verious aspects on
# Mediaeval Europe, it would perhaps be better to ask why certain things
# took place, rather than to just quote them without regard to background
# circumstances. During the Middle Ages, Europe formed most of what may be
# called Christendom, and despite many internal divisions, this was a
# unifying factor. The legal framework of Europe was based on this
# Christianity, and therefore it was quite natural and right to expel
# or deny full participation to those who refused to belong.
# 
# N.O. Monaghan

Yet expulsion was seldom the action.  The action was usually murder.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: maimonides
Date: 24 Jan 93 14:40:24 GMT
Reply-To: kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com ()
Distribution: talk
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1993Jan21.1777.23046@channel1>, 
wayne.mcguire@channel1.com (wayne mcguire) writes:

> In the meantime, will one or two Maimonides experts please focus
> on this single passage (below) from Epistle to Yemen and
> explicate it for me? What I find troublesome is the notion that
> "the issue of Ishmael" will not be favored by God. We also see
> references to "the offspring of Isaac" and "the illustrious
> scions of Isaac." The language and imagery is clearly genetic and
> biological.

    While we're at it, will one or two Islam experts please explain how
    Moslems view Ishmael. I'm under the impression that the Moslems
    themselves see Ishmael as there ancestor. Is this to be taken
    literally?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to hear
    from some knowledgeable Moslems as to how Islam relates to Ishmael.

> P.S. The dispute over Maimonides' Epistle to Yemen in no way
> obviates the fact that many prominent Jews viewed the Jews as a
> race. I was strongly reminded of this point yesterday when I
> reread Isaiah Berlin's essay in Against The Current on Moses
> Hess, the ideological godfather of Zionism. 

    The ideological godfathers of Zionism are Abraham and Moses. The
    modern Zionist movement has many and often opposing ideological
    schools of thought. There is no one modern day 'godfather' of
    Zionism.  The only common denominator between all the different
    schools of Zionism is the desire to see the Jews reunited with their
    homeland.
    
> Hess is not a nobody. He pretty much invented Zionism. I highly

    Hardly. That's like saying that George Washington invented democracy.
    
    
-Itzhak
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26420 talk.politics.soviet:10851 soc.culture.greek:12683 soc.culture.europe:11512 soc.history:11062 soc.culture.greek:12684 alt.news.macedonia:319
From: marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: No, This is the Quote of the year
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:21:10 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


(Bob Christ)      : No, don't try and say "anti-Semite" means hate
                    toward Semites.
(Marwan Gharaybeh): Here we have another English literature scholar ... So
                    what does it mean Bob? ... Blind love for all
                    Semites ?!!!
(Bob Christ)      : I know what it means, bone-head. I don't care how the
                    dictorary defines "anti".
                    ^^^^^^^^^
Bonehead ??? Listen you stupid ass-hole, NO one can call me anti-Semite
when I am more Semitic than him. I am the Semite while probably he who
is accusing me of being anti-Semitic has converted to the Jewish "race"
from the Aryan "race".
 
>Bob "just trying to help you understand english" Christ
                                         ^^^^^^^
I hate it when my professor does not know what the hell he's talking about.

dictorary : dictionary
english   : English

--Marwan
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26354 soc.culture.turkish:15116 soc.culture.greek:12624
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Argic thats for you (was: Re: Armenian IRC Meeting!)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 20:50:31 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <5675@daily-planet.concordia.ca> athanass@cs.concordia.ca (MICHAILIDIS athanassios) writes:

>Why don't you join "irc" sometime ? Maybe we will get 
>the chance to see first hand your intellectual capacity
>mon ami @zuma.UUCP . Or are you afraid that by joining

If I do that, would I become a famous criminal/Nazi Armenian? 
Dro the butcher? Karekin Nejdeh? Hamparsum Boyadjian?


        'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in 
         whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children 
         also should be killed as they form a danger to the 
         Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26401 talk.politics.soviet:10837
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Marxism
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:53:03 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan25.233515.16257@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:

>Yet another Argic ;

But to increase our level of intimacy, I will tell you about one
of mine: the Azeri Genocide.


           M A S S A C R E  I N  K H O J A L Y

Hostilities between  Armenia and Azerbaijan boil  over after some
200 civilians are slaughtered in a disputed enclave

While the details are argued, this much is  plain: something grim
and unconscionable  happened in  the Azerbaijani town  of Khojaly
two weeks ago.  So far, some 200 dead Azerbaijanis,  many of them
mutilated, have  been transported out  of the town  tucked inside
the Armenian-dominated enclave of  Nagorno-Karabakh for burial in
neighboring  Azerbaijan.  The  total   number  of  deaths  -  the
Azerbaijanis claim 1,324 civilians have been slaughtered, most of
them women and children - is unknown. But the explanation offered
by the  attacking Armenians,  who insist  that no  innocents were
deliberately killed, is hardly convincing.

Videotapes  circulated  by  the Azerbaijanis  include  images  of
defaced civilians, some of them scalped, others shot in the head.
Armenians claim the footage is fake. They insist that they left a
corridor open for civilians to flee Khojaly, but that Azerbaijani
soldiers led  a group 200 civilians  into harm's way. The  use of
surface-to-air missiles, artillery rockets  and armor proves that
both sides  are equipped with state-of-the-art  weapons that were
bequeathed  by,  sold by  or  stolen  from disintegrating  Soviet
units.

By Jill SMOLOWE

-Reported by Yuri ZARAKHOVICH/Moscow

SOURCE: TIME March 16, 1992

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26142 talk.politics.soviet:10681
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: We Are Experiencing Minor Technical Difficulties
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:39:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.201359.22966@fuug.fi> an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI) writes:

	First off, can I ask why you are posting this anonymously?

>    and we must learn to accept responsibility for the effects of our
>    actions upon our neighbors.

>    the palestinians can assist this transition
>
>    by refraining from violence periodically to demonstrate:

	Why only periodically?  Why not stop all violence?

>    (1)	palestinians can control and coordinate on a national scale,
>    (2)	their goals are well defined, practical, and
>    ultimately peaceful,

	Could someone tell me what the limits of these "well defined"
goals are? 

>    (3)	a means to achieve and a plan to utilize those means exists...

	What means have the Palestinians to achieve their ends?  Many
seem to believe that violence is the only way to go. 

Adam

Adam Shostack 				       adam@das.harvard.edu

"If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure
wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."   -John Perry Barlow
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aberman@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Berman)
Subject: Re: Expelled Palestinians
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:17:27 GMT

In article <30924@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

>
>It has been raised before, and I'm not defending it (see my recent posting
>on the subject) but the Palestinians who were expelled from Kuwait were
>not expelled from their own homeland, whereas the alleged Hamas supporters
>were.

It's still unbelievably hypocritical.  Some of those expelled
Palestinians were 3rd and 4th generation Kuwaiti born.  Some =
thousands, by the way. Of course, that both of your parents were born in
Kuwait and that you were born in Kuwait doesn't give you citizenship
in that country. To me, the UN reaction to Kuwait's expulsions, and to
Saudi Arabia's expulsions of several hundred thousand Yemenites vs.
Israel's *temporary* deportations of 400 men is very telling.

Of course, the UN never complains when any Arab country does anything
to its populations.  The ONLY time the UN complained about an Arab
country is when Iraq invaded Kuwait.


>===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          


Andrew Berman

-- 
Andrew P. Berman           |  "I have no idea what White House statement was
Dept. of Computer Science  |  was issued, but I stand by it 100 percent"
University of Washington   |    -- Richard Darman
aberman@cs.washington.edu  |
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26368 soc.culture.greek:12631 alt.news.macedonia:289 soc.culture.turkish:15121
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Freedom fighter or Terrorist
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:56:22 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1k2o1fINNbus@life.ai.mit.edu> steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel) writes:
>
>I guess it is love. Some women are just jealous, what do 
>you think Nora? ;-)

Of what?

>But I've never heard of women that are freedom fighter
>supporters that can love men that are terrorist supporters.  :)  

You obviously haven't seen those handsome Mossad agents
decked to the teeth, have you? 

>(Just teasing both of you :) SMILE )

But I'm NOT ... (Hee Hee!)

asinA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast