HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sappho.
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:19:36 GMT
Reply-To: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl
Organization: Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam

In article 15544@star.cs.vu.nl, fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
:shield, but at 21 I still have a lot to learn.
		^^

22 actually. Shileds of youth wear thinner every year.

						FJ!! (wierd. 2 months
						since my birthday and
						I'm still not used to
						it)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lmh44500@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wildfire)
Subject: Re: those problem hets
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:01:20 GMT

thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>But really, it's not that unfair to assume that heterosexuals are not
>to be trusted, because in this society that is the general rule, and
>hets such as Mara and Scooter and Ann who at least really *try* to
>empathize with what we feel are a rare exception, sadly, and though I
>value their friendships and their presence, I don't think they're enough
>to change the basic terminology of 'queer vs. strayt'. This sounds
>really harsh, but as I have said previously, they *are* queer (to vary-
>ing degrees), so I don't even think of them as straight. Their sexuality
>hardly bothers me at all, really. And the world is ugly and segregated
>enough that it's a fair assumption to think that straight people aren't
>going to have a clue unless previously Exposed to the Gay Lifestyle,
>and that queers will be infinitely more understanding of me and of my
>life. So if you are one of those rare Clued Straights, listen to the
>things we say about straights and hets and breeders and think about
>whether or not you *should* be insulted before you go to all the bother
>of actually *getting* insulted.

As one of the (I sincerely hope) Clued Straights, I must say that I have
never been offended by the user of "breeder" or anything else like that.
The only thing I've run into so far that I really don't like is "fish".
I take all that sort of name thing with a grain of salt, because I have had
more than enough run ins with people who act in a very negative and verbal 
manner towards "that perverted" lifestyle.

And just to throw my two cents in on another matter: I firmly believe
that the "cause" of homosexuality is similar to that of schizophrenia,
which is a combination of both genetics and environment.  There was an 
Oprah show on which they had pairs of identical twins with mixed sexual
orientations which (to me anyway) solidified my theory.  I don't think that
anything can or will be done about it in the near future, and I don't think
that anything SHOULD be done about it at all.  I'm surprised so many people
object to it considering all the over population, starvation, etc there is
in the world, but I guess that's sort of like the population control in 
China.  Groups lobbyed Washington to pull "population control" measures
in china due to planned parenthood "causing" abortions, (pro lifers) which
in turn led to even MORE abortions going on in China due to a lower quality 
of birth control.  Some things are just better left alone......
(sources are CNN Healine News)

				-Wildfire-


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|         Wildfire           |       Disclaimer: Evil is a point of view       |
|lmh44500@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   |     "Let the flesh instruct the mind....."      |
|  hoff@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu     |         -Claudia, An Interview with the Vampire |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ameriflora and the Living Quilt
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:00:31 EDT

Since a few people have asked about the remark I made about Ameriflora, and 
it actually has motss content, I thought I'd make a post about it.

Ameriflora is a flower show which decided to become a world exposition in 
honor of the Columbus quincentennial.  It has been heavily promoted here, 
and I suspect that there was some attempt to promote it nationally, since 
they've been running special shuttle buses between Ameriflora and
the airport.  Like Columbus's last attempt to mount an exhibit of national 
significance, Son of Heaven, Ameriflora seems likely to result in a 
large financial loss for city and state.  (They're calling it "Grandson 
of Heaven.")

The advertisements here are quite misleading, in my opinion, and the 
tickets are overpriced.  There weren't all that many flowers, considering 
that the admission price is $20 and that Columbus has a park called the 
Park of Roses, which is free, and has over 10,000 bushes, that we saw in 
the morning.

I liked the Japanese garden, and the Korean garden, and the Australian 
landscape, and the Malaysian jungle exhibit; but there wasn't much else 
that grabbed my attention.  Monaco had a large fake house for its exhibit, 
and Italy had a bunch of pyramids with paintings of Italian scenery on the 
sides.  I liked the Franklin Park conservatory, which had 5 climate-
controlled rooms that you went through, from desert to tropical island, 
but the conservatory was there before Ameriflora, and will be 
after, and cost a lot less.

The exhibit I most wanted to see was the Living Quilt, a flower bed in the 
form of a patchwork.  It was, of course, extremely moving.  If the 
publicity is good enough, then you may have seen pictures of the central 
sculpture, which depicts two hands reaching up out of the ground towards 
the heavens.  It is a beautiful sculpture.  On the other hand, the floral 
part of the Living Quilt was depressingly small--I heard it explained 
that the plots were overpriced and insufficiently promoted.  I was sad 
that there wasn't more effort given to the memorial.

-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:35:28 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <84006@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:

>On the surface, the letter-writers are dead on.  Nobody should have to submit
>to unwanted advances, regardless of the sex or orientation of the advancer or
>advancee.  If the drivers were indeed propositioned, their response was rational
>and (you'll forgive me) straightforward, and they should not be punished for
>that.


However, you need to look at the chain of events.  There are two scenarios,
which, in my mind are different.

Scenario 1: Sexual harassment

Ambulance is without sign.  Crew members were propositioned.  They put
sign in the window.  They start getting harassing calls from the parade
watchers.

Scenario 2: Homophobia/insensitivity

Ambulance drivers put sign in window to protect their manhood (a homophobic
response to working in a gay pride parade).  Viewers see sign, are offended
by it, and start harassing the drivers.


Somehow, I suspect that the actual scenario is version 2.  If the sign was
in the window from the begining, the sign says "faggots keep away".


On the sexual harassment front, I believe in harassing heterosexual men 
in certain situations.  If I find a straight man who harasses women, I
make a point of harassing him.  If I find a straight man who is homophobic,
I will harass him. (and, in all reality, if I find a straight man who I
can make blush, I will tease him, but no more).  In general, I think that
most straight men deserve a little sexual harassment.  It lets them know
what it feels like.


FWA
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Myths and Jeep Codes
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:37:18 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

mdrayton@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) wrote: 
->As a matter of fact, it is.  Most of the men here have been through it,
->auditing only, not for credit.  It's taught by parable and metaphor,
->starting with a few warm-ups like "What do you do if you drop a 
->quarter on Castro St?"

ah.  now i get it.  this must be why there are all those people
offering "spare change" on castro street these past few years ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nomad@castle.org (Lee Damon)
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Funding (continued...)
Organization: The Castle, not-yet-Public Access Un*x Systems; Peekskill, NY
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:51:03 GMT

In article <wp1xhz#@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>eeeek! Was this announcement part of the story, too, or was it just a 
>recent announcement? What is GOING ON?

It's called "extortion". Most places it's illegal, but when it comes
to funnymentalists, they are above the law, so it's ok. 

Pardon me while I am reminded what I had for lunch today.

nomad
-- 
play: castle!nomad or nomad@castle.org                                 \
work: nomad@watson.ibm.com                  - Lee "nomad" Damon -       \
Seneschal; The Castle, Public Access Un*x Systems.                     / \
  " Unashamed "                                                       /   \
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: "Reverse" discrimination by NAGAAA
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:30:09 GMT

wb@rigel.cc.bellcore.com (Bill Beblo) writes:
>What did unnerve me the most is that the general consensus
>among the other league teams was that this team (with straight players)
>won because there were straight players.  The implication being that
>straight players played better softball than gay players!

There are many more straight people than gay people; therefore we
might expect, other things being equal, that there are many more good
straight players than good gay players.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: homophobes sabotaging motss
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 09:54:01 GMT


In article <1992Jul29.050644.25185@wam.umd.edu>
jns@wam.umd.edu (J.  N.  Shaumeyer) writes:

>[By *my* reckoning, only 12.7% of the total motss volume
> was devoid of discernable motss relevance; the rest of
> the results are as yet unpublished.]

What fraction (much smaller, Shirley) were the same
article posted twice (like the cited one)? :-)

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Unformed thoughts on motss solidarity
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:21:12 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul24.084247.3889@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Do you realize that soc.motss, if it really is 70000 readers big, is
>larger than many medium sized towns? That's a hell of a lot of people.

The sociological definition of a city is 50,000.

>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                                            Love under will

	-Nora
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,soc.bi
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:32:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.014417.9882@u.washington.edu> bunky@milton.u.washington.edu (Mike) writes:
>
>Billy Crystal played a homosexual on Soap on ABC in the early 80's.  I 
>remember they dealt with it in kind of a goofy way but Soap was a goofy
>show

But I still like the bit of dialogue:

	-- Oh, so you're a practising homosexual.

	-- No, I don't have to practise.  I'm very good at it.


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Olympics
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:12:05 GMT


They are here again.
Any speculated or known motss'ers in this crop?
I am sure there are lots of wish-they-were's!

-Rick
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How to get equity in insurance coverage?
Keywords: insurance, motss, domestic partners
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:41:52 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.


I guess that it is time to say this again...


If you are interested in getting benefits extended for domestic
partners, either at your university or business, send mail to

domestic-request@tattoo.asd.sgi.com

To post to this list, you send mail to

domestic@tattoo.asd.sgi.com

This is a mailing list of approximately 100 people who exchange
information concerning these topics.  It is fairly low volume and
there is very little noise.  It is a good place for getting copies
of policies which other companies have implemented.  It is also
a good place to discuss methods which have worked and methods which
have not worked.



Jeff
-FWA
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Subject: Re: Gayspace
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:01:54 GMT

In article <2A733D51.5586@noiro.acs.uci.edu> it is written:
>Just out of curiosity, you might be able to answer my question.

Just out of curiosity, do you understand the event Arne was
describing? (for that matter, do you understand the motivation of
the crosspost?)

>Consider a hypothetical city 35% of the population of which oppose
>abortion want to see it banned. 

why? Are you claiming this analogy has any basis in reality? "35%"
and "abortion" don't exactly apply to West Hollywood and gay rights.

>Would you consider it proper and appropriate use of the taxpayers
>funds of that city if it decided to build a monument to Operation
>Rescue protests at a local abortion clinic?

Again, why is this an interesting question? Municipal funds are not
paying for the monument.

>Also, would you consider it appropriate and tolerant if any citizen
>of that city told anybody else who criticized that monument "Fuck
>you!" and "Move somewhere else if you don't like it here!"?

[edited per John Dorrance's criticism of the original author's post, a
criticism that I think is just about the right level for the post
itself.]

Rejoinders such as "fuck you" and "move somewhere else" serve little
rational purpose, I agree. They serve a very useful emotional purpose,
though. 

Speaking as a queer man, I'm sick and tired of explaining points that
should be clear to rational human beings. I'm tired of worrying about
how much I should say about my life to straight people around me. I'm
tired of feeling paranoid, as I did last night in a group of 25 queer
people, because 4 people walk by muttering "faggot" at us.

I'm tired of expending mental energy because of clueless people. Some
times, the best I can do is say "fuck you."
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32128 rec.arts.tv:15143 rec.arts.tv.uk:4427 rec.arts.tv.soaps:26014 soc.bi:9350 alt.politics.homosexuality:5098
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.arts.tv.soaps,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Date: 22 Jul 1992 17:01:05 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

An old (10+ years) NBC show called "Love, Sydney," with Tony Randall.  Never
saw it personally, but there was a bit of controversy at the time.  
Randall's character was apparently clearly gay in the pilot, but somewhat
less clearly gay in the actual series (which lasted less than a year).

Also, "Brothers" on Showtime.  The premise was that one of a set of three
grown brothers decides that he's gay, although he's not sure at first
how he feels about it.  His other brothers are pretty macho, and they all
have to do some adjusting.  Besides the brother, there was one regular
gay character, (Donald?) who was very good.  Didn't follow this past the
first season, when I dropped the cable premium channels, but I hear it 
lasted a good long time. 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:33158 talk.politics.misc:36643 alt.individualism:4761 alt.activism:13748
From: rjbodkin@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ronald Bodkin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:31:42 GMT
	<RJBODKIN.92Jul30115721@maimonides.lcs.mit.edu>
	<l7g6qsINN97o@spim.mips.com>
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science

In article <l7g6qsINN97o@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
   But if the business person, through inaction, allows thugs to get away
   with burning the businesses of his competitors, that is volitional
   action (or volitional inaction).  Selective enforcement of laws and selective
   imposement of penalties is, or should be, illegal.  I thought this was why we
   have civil rights laws.

	What kind of inaction?  He or she surely isn't required to
hire security guards to protect the competitors.  If he or she bribes
officials to not provide less police protection that is a different
story.  To clarify, the only relationship the postulated
business person has with the crime is that he or she competes with the
victim; no action to assist or hinder the criminals has been taken
directly or indirectly.  Civil rights laws do not apply.

		Ron
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Reply-To: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:23:00 GMT


In article <1992Jul25.230852.4124@queernet.org>, rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.203335.28373@decvax.dec.com> walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh) writes:
>>Why is it that most white heterosexual males have no power whatsoever?
>
>No?  You have the power to walk down the street behind another white
>heterosexual male and not be presumed a mugger, for one.  

I also have the "power" to walk behind a white heterosexual female and be 
presumed a rapist.

>You have the
>power to get a job interview, or a home, for another.  

I'm sure that homeless white males are glad to know that they have this power.

>You have the power
>to be free of power-laden stereotypes about everything from your honesty
>to the size of your dick, for another.

This is ridculous.  All groups are subject to and hurt by stereotypes. 
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Thomas Walsh 		walsh@via.enet.dec.com		Nashua, NH

:opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employers
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32371 ba.motss:1338
From: thomas@acuson.com (Chris Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: South Bay / Peninsula picnic lunch announcement
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:56:41 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

You're invited to a bring-your-own ba.motss picnic lunch at Shoreline
Park in Mountain View!

	Date:	Wednesday, July 29, 1992
	Time:	11:45 am - 1:30 pm (arrive when you can)

Directions:

	Take Hwy 101 to the Shoreline Blvd exit.  Head *toward* the
	bay on Shoreline.  After about 1 mile you'll reach the park
	gatehouse.  Wave and go on through.

	Follow the park road all the way to the parking lot at the
	end.  We'll be set up in one of the grassy areas around the
	recreation lake; start walking on the path around the lake
	and you'll find us.  (We're hard to miss!)

Important: Bring all the food you want.  Fires and alcohol (either
together or seperately!) aren't allowed in the park.  Also, to comply
with stupid Mountain View laws, if more than 50 people show up, we'll
split into two groups.

RSVPs are not necessary for this event -- just show up. 

If you're interested and have the time, bring your bicycle.

(Sorry for the short notice, but life is busy these days....)
-- 
Chris Thomas                            [till 31-Jul-92] thomas@acuson.com
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++   [after that] thomas@mips.com
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Wir sind eine Gruppe
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:11:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: PacBell.1992Jul30.161141.13858
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> cz@wssh.cc.univie.ac.at (Curd Zechmeister) writes:

>Wir sind eine Gruppe v. Gay-Jungs im Alter  v. 18-24 J.,
>die sich allwoechentlich treffen u. hier eine gute Freundschaft
>pflegen. An weiteren Freunden sind wir interessiert. 
>
>Wenn ihr kommen moechtet schreibt an PA 1011 WIEN Postfach 904.
>Accountinhaber und Postfachinhaber sind nicht ident. Keine falschen
>Rueckschluesse !!

Wow!  It's been 20 years since My Summer In Munich,
(with side-trips to Austria) but I *still* understood
that.  Trouble is, I was im Alter v. 18-24 J. back
then... :-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vatican equates homosexuality with mental illness
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:22:10 GMT

In article <22JUL92.13553640@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) wrote:
>>Save that for alt.sexual.abuse.recovery, where such nonsense statements
>>are not only tolerated, but encouraged.
>This note gets flatter and flatter each time it is sounded.  It seems
>that you are unable to add anything constructive to a discussion of
>sexual.abuse.recovery, either here or in a.s.a.r.

As opposed to a crack like Penn made?  Wow, that was constructive,
wasn't it?  And so insightful!  Insightful enough that it trivializes
real cases of abuse, as well as insulting people who were raised
Catholic or who are still Catholic.

However asar may help some people, and I can only trust what they say,
I think there are some really problematic things about that group which
have come up in recent months, and I haven't been the only one to
comment on them.  People don't take responsibility for their verbal
behavior in the group itself, and there's a lot of inexcusable
behavior which is excused by virtue of the fact that some of these
people have been victims of abuse in the past.  Like I've said before,
I don't think that does anyone any favors.  I think it often encourages
continued maladaptive and inappropriate behavior on the part of some people
who need to be directed in other directions.

Nonetheless, I think if you've read my (infrequent) articles I've posted
in asar in the past few months, they've been more than single-note comments.
These days I limit my cynicism towards much of the recovery movement to
soc.motss.  It's counter-productive in asar.

>Seeya in Portland!

I'll bring my autographed copy of "I'm Dysfunctional, You're
Dysfunctional". :-)  Oh, and Sim, I might growl but I don't bite.
I do look forward to meeting you there.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer