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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:06:36 EST
From:         Thomas Varouhakis <varouhak@ICARUS.MONTCLAIR.EDU>
Subject:      On Bosnia, Serbia and a Potential "Third Balkan War," #800
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
Comments: cc: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              26 Dec 1992 15:17:27 +0100
              <9212261258.AA25897@icarus.montclair.edu.montclair.edu>

>you have to learn how to deal with diametrically opposite views without
>stooping to emotional outbursts ("puritan racist", "lousy student",etc.)

I found your remarks highly offensive and totally unfounded so the
reply was in kind...

>I am sorry that my views offended you. That wasn't my purpose. I forgive
>you for being so rude because I know how sensitive people can be about
>their ethnicity.
>
>>>How can a country of 2 mln. people, barely on its feet threaten
>
>>According to your number theory calculations Israel should have
>>ceased to exist a long time ago.
>

>A comparison or an example can not serve as a proof. Any "good student"
>of logics should knoe that. By the way, Israel have never threatened

On the contrary, you can easily prove something wrong by providing a counter
example. That's a fairly common practice in Mathematics...

>its neighbors, although it was accused of doing so by the Arabs (just
>like Greeks accuse Macedonia). To draw further parallels, Israel was
>attacked by its neighbors; Greece is now tempted to attack Macedonia.
>If the war in Bosnia spreads further south, Greece will have a good
>pretext to occupy Macedonia after accusing it of starting the hosti-
>lities.

Greece was devestated in WW-II. Unlike Americans Greeks had to fight on their
own soil, in their own cities. People in cities starved to death. All those
memories are fresh in people's minds. To them war is not something distant.
And that's the bottom line. So IT IS absurd to think that Greece would go to
war to annex the southest part of Yugoslavia.


>>I think Greece if it wanted to could have just stepped over Skopje
>>any time it wanted to whenever it wanted to.

>Firstly, by saying so you inadvertantly prove how ridiculous Greece's
>claims are that Macedonia can become a threat in the future. If Greece

How can you say how powerful (military) Skopje will be in the future? Israel
came out of no existence to be the most dangerous military power in the Middle
East. It is much more complicated than that anyway. Disputes in the Balkans
always draw most of the parties in the area.

>is so powerful militarily, why is it concerned about Macedonia?
>Secondly, Greece can not attack Macedonia "any time it wants to do so".
>In this case by 'Greece' you probably mean 'Greek leadership'. Surely,
>if Greece is a real democracy, Mitsotakis can not do whatever he wants,
>because the popular support for such an action can not always be taken
>for granted. Although, from what I read in the press, it sounds like
>is now overwhelmed by nationalism and war psychosis. Macedonia has
>become a real obsession for many Greeks. The government is using it to
>deflect public attention from Greece's economic problems. But stocking
>the fire of nationalism can backfire. In the near future the government

I'm sorry to say but you're really ignorant of the situation: the government
in Greece wish the problem would somehow go away by itself. As a matter of
fact Mistotakis fired Samaras the Foreign Minister who advocated a harsh line
against Skopje recognition. The public sentiment more or less drives governmet
policy in this matter and as the very conservative Economist observes, if the
government softened its position it wouldn't last a day.

>>I find your assertion here offending and absurd. Obviously a lousy
>>"student" of history (as well as Mathematics).
>
>Hmm...Very persuasive argument...  You will always win discussions by
>resorting to personal attacks. I wish you many such victories in the
>future.

I think people should be very alarmed about the dissmal level of the
secondary education their children get. Unfortunately it's more or
less an unsolvable problem since it has a lot to do with the way kids
are brought up, the family break-up, the society's values system, etc.
I think television is of the worst ways to advocate popular culture
themes.

Anyway,

Listen, I don't expect anybody to change opinions overnight because of
arguments presented here. Personally I normally avoid discussions with
un-informed Greeks let alone foreigners... People have set opinions depending
on their values, beleives and where they come from... But you cannot solve a
problem (any problem) you don't understand.

America became a great power among other things due to lack (out of depression
through WW-II), and obviously now since because of the fall of Soviet Union
its influence on the world affairs is even greater, one should expect that its
people, especially its media would take the time and EFFORT to understand the
problems of the world they want to get involved into. (How can you have an
opinion in world affairs when you cannot even locate your own country on the
world map?)


Thomas-
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