HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:39:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
: 
: Since it's returned, I'll throw one more shot in the ring. A few months ago,
: I came up with an idea, while arguing with some coworkers who are Libertarians.
: No one really likes it, but with the exception of one guy who will argue
: *any-bloody-thing*, everybody seems to be able to live with it. This makes
: it a compromise. Has everyone forgotten that word, over the last dozen
: years? The suggestion is this: lots of comparisons of guns to cars. Fine. 
: Create a national gun license, *EXACTLY* like a car license. It does *NOT*
: imply that you even own one. You take a gun safety course, and pass a test,
: and have the background check *then*. Then, five minutes, or five years
: later, you walk into a store, show them your license, buy the gun and an
: insurance policy (or show proof of insurance, the purpose of which is to
: take care of victims of either your gun, or part goes into afund to care
: for victims of uninsured guns), and walk with your weapon. No waiting required.
: No licensing of the firearm itself. Howzzat, guys?

It stinks. In the first place, it does not address the actions of a person
between the time they get the license, and when they decide to buy a gun.

Second, you are forcing everyone to pay for the misuse of firearms by a
few. (Registration/insurance) etc.

The NRA, amoung other groups, have proposed an instant backgroud check - to
be made at the time of purchase. Of course, this would require the government
to get their totally fouled up records straightened out. There would be no
license or registration required - what do either of them gain?

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Skyclad ritual
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:11:39 GMT


Re: Why is it called that?

When one is Skyclad, one is clothed by
"only the sky"...I use the term to 
mean nudity within the circle.  
Nudity outside of the circle gets 
labelled "nakedness" or "nudity".

-- 
I thank the Goddess for my life,
I thank the Goddess for my loves,
I thank the Goddess for continued blessings.
     -- Z Budapest
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Santa Claus
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:32:59 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <Bz9v5A.44L@world.std.com>, marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> 
> I still leave cookies for Santa, because I consider it a ritual to help feed
> that spirit and keep it living in all of us. Maybe one day it will become
> strong enough to stick around for more of the year. Of course, I have to eat
> them myself sometimes, but I kinda think of that as taking in the spirit and
> resolving to "keep Christmas in my heart".

Leaving cookies for Santa is a great idea.  Only is Santa really the best
choice for the role of *Santa*?  Are any of the incarnations of Solstice
gift giver more noticeably pagan?  Father Christmas doesn't cut it.
Saint Nicholas obviously doesn't cut it.  Is Santa one of the purely
Christian inventions for Christmas, or does he come over from some earlier
pagan tradition?

Maybe we could leave the cookies for the Solstice Elves instead?  

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: sowing bags
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:15:56 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <2B2AECA0.26033@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> In article <Bz5LIp.5x8@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
> >Don't have a sowing machen then just get a hand neadle and thread and
> >sow with your hands. What Hand sowing a dead art? ops. I'm probly just
> >about the only one (out side of the omish ect) who's hand sowing is as
> >good as a mecheans. To much time spent inside because of asthma and the
> >temp, or polin, or humidity. Domage (how ever its spelled-cant spell in 
> >any languig:))
> 
> I am also a hand-sewer, simply because I can't afford a machine.  My
> stitches are very small and even, and I wouldn't imagine a machine doing
> better.  When you can shift and even out the cloth by hand, it's FAR
> better -- especially when you're crushingly nearsighted.

Any quilter will tell you that hand sewing is much better than machine
sewing.  I have a machine, and I still do work by hand.  It's the only
way you can make all the points match up on an 8 pointed star, and it's
much easier to gather a hem.  The only thing I use my machine for is long
straight seams, like on curtains or the sides of skirts, or for zig-zagging.
Other than that, you're better off without that machine.

(If someone thinks this doesn't belong in this newsgroup, I'm sure we could
come up with some pagan themes for quilts.)

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Going into space...
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 11:29:40 PST

Re: Re: Going into space...
 
> From: wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Going into space...
> Facts?  Why should facts convince you when you've ignored some that have
> been presented already.  (Theoretically, all opinions are based on
> facts, and the persons interpretation of those facts.  Try again, and
> try not to reject someone elses opinions simply cause you don't agree.)


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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jnewman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: Virginity of Nature
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:08:03 GMT

fffffIn article <1g7r3uINNcd2@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:
> Apropos of the virginity of Nature, Charles G. Leland -- the scholar who
> translated the _Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches of Italy_ -- once
> wrote:
> 
> "It is a fundamental principle of human folly to assume that any alleged
> marvel is a 'violation of the laws of nature,' or the work of supernatural
> influences, until it is proved _not_ to be such.  Nature cannot be violated.
> She is ever virgin."  [Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune-Telling, chapter XI.]
> 
> It's not quite to the point now under discussion on this thread, but still
> worth pondering.  -- Robert
> 
> Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM

  A good point.  It is arrogant to assume that we are exempt from nature and 
that we can somehow disobey natural laws.  We can, however, make it damn 
uncomfortable for certain lifeforms here, including ourselves...

			May the words of my throat ring true in your ears.
				-Grendel 2.0

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:59:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.212725.23970@athena.cs.uga.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>
>Okay, let's clear the air on this one.  Since when were men called witches? 

 For at least 40 years now. How's that?

>The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
>practices is "Warlock".

 Really? Look up the source of that word in the dictionary.

> The more gender nuetral term would be "Necromancer".  If I practiced
> magic, I surely wouldn't want to be called a witch. 

 Who cares what you want. If you aren't a Witch, fine, but others are. I'm
male and I'm a Witch. A Necromancer is someone who deals with the dead
magically. I'm not one of those either. Seems like you have a dictionary
stuck up your ass but don't know how to use it.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:43:12 GMT

tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
: 
: Okay, let's clear the air on this one.  Since when were men called witches? 

For hundreds of years.

: The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
: practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be
: "Necromancer".  If I practiced magic, I surely wouldn't want to be called a
: witch. 

Only in a Christian society. A warlock is, by Christian definition, one who
is in league with the "Devil". The term is also used as one who practices
the "black arts" - another term invented by those who insist on living in
a dualistic universe. It was probably invented because some studly men felt
that "witch" was to effeminate a word to apply to a man.

Who are you, a person who obviously knows little about religion, to be
defining what terms people are to apply to themselves? 

Do you pray? If so, then you practice magic. Do you take communion? If
so, then you practice magic. Do you sing in a choir, or as a member of
the masses? If so, you practice magic. Do you raise children, or pets
or animals? If so, you practice magic.  Need I go on?

Bill
From: ailsa@ailanthus.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:18:21 GMT
Reply-To: ailsa@ailanthus.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith RW Elflein) writes:

> In article <1g59d1INNeo9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cn573@cleveland.Freenet
> (Ray Henry) wrote:
> >
> >
> > I, too, am interested in anything you have to say about contacting
> > the Forest People. Post or Email, whichever.  :)
>
>    I have always wanted to contact tree spirits. There used to be a wh
> birch in our yard that i loved...it would have been cool to contact it
> There is something there...it's just a question of making contact.
>
but, but, but...  it's perfectly simple.  you sit there.  you be quiet.
you let your stress drain into the ground.  you listen.  if the tree
wants to communicate, it will.  there is nothign more to it than that.

just LISTEN.

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I miss the rains down in Africa.                Silence \      / Action
Gotta take some time to do the things we           =     \    /    =
  never have...                                  Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Somalia [was: Start again]
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:05:00 GMT

In article <Bz3ot8.342@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.011403.18192@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>[much good stuff deleted to save bandwidth]
>
>>I would argue that the money is much better spent at home, where with
>>much less effort, we could enable the disinfranchised here to reenter
>>society, get a job, live in decent housing, and receive an education.
>>By maintaining the poorest of the poor without giving them the ability to
>>make a better home for their children, the generational class division
>>is maintained. I don't feel that the US can or should have the commitment
>>to make that happen in Somalia without establishing and maintaining a
>>commitment to fix our own problems first.
>
>This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Thank you Murray.
>This country is one the most technologically rich and educationally poor
>countries on the planet. The "American Dream (tm)" is currently a sham.
>With so many ablebodied people out of work and on the streets, we have
>no business trying to fix another country's problems......yet. We have
>to start at home, and once our house in order, go on to help our neighbors.
>Once we've got our neighbors on the right track, we can start acting
>more like the global family we should be.

But, you see, how are we going to convince ourselves in the face of such
overwhelming evidence to the contrary that we are still the knowing big 
brother to poor backward countries unless we act patronizing toward them
and pat them on the head?

We want to help Somalia not out of a desire to keep them from starving
but out of a desire to maintain the illusion that we are still the big
guys on the block who know better than those poor "undeveloped" darkies
in Africa. 

The individual people involved in the relief effort may feel motivated
by genuine human kindness, but the overall picture is one of, "We don't
have it so bad; look at Africa.  Hey, I know!  Let's act like the
sheltering wing again!"

I don't like what's happening in Somalia any more than anyone else;
seeing little kids that look like old people and women holding babies to
dry nipples can get ANYONE angry.  But it was interference from the
more "enlightened" countries that screwed them over to start with.  And
we ARE doing this (I think) to convince
ourselves that even with all the murder, rape, mayhem, joblessness,
economic hardship, and social unrest in this country, we are still
"better" than some others and can reach down from our lofty perch and
lend a hand to poor, backward, incompetant Africa.    

Again, while I do think tat the situation has gotten so bad that acute
action is needed, and while I do admire the individual people who are
involved in the relief effort, I still wonder at our motivations. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: nuclear
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:08:17 GMT

In article <Bz3p7C.99D@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Nuclear!= radioactive necesaraly
>nuclear is a refrince to spliting (fission) or combining (fusion) of atoms or
>nuceuses. Spliting water trew bombardment were one of the base componits
>is altered would be nuclear. With the right know how we could split atoms
>with out producing nuclear wast, and yes we can recycle and 'clean' some
>of the wast. The process is improving and is rather new. Most of the concept
>of the danger comes from nuclear bomes were two chunks of radioactive 
>plutonium are smashed to gether creating a runaway reaction.(sort of
>like if you were to take a few hundrid small children to Disny land
>with maybe 5 adults and let them lose).

There are so few really stable elements that any isotope that deviates
is almost by definition going to be radioactive.  I don't think we can
split anything without creating some waste; there are simply too few
stable isotopes, and most of the ones we can get energy from in their
splitting split into some nasty stuff.

Recycling seems to be referring to the concept of breeder reactors; I
have to dig out my info on them, but to the best of my recollection,
they were scrapped as being heinously dangerous.

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: correction
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:32:58 GMT

kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R.W. Elflein) writes:
: I did not mean to imply, in my previous article, that i actually believed
: that a witch was someome who sold hirself to evil. I just meant that that
: was what i have always been told. I don't believe it...You see, i am in an
: odd stage right now. I am becoming more and more interested in wicca..but i
: still am not sure. I am just trying to find out all the facts. Thanks to
: everyone who responded with advise. I am currently attempting to locate
: some books on Wicca to read. Hahaha..speaking of advise, i may need some if
: the time ever comes to tell my parents that i am a "witch." Thanks again
: everyone, and i'm sure you'll be hearing from me again. :) and a Merry
: Winter break to all of you.

Just keep in mind that, just like on the net, much/most of what you will
read about paganism/witchcraft is crap/bunk/insane ravings. There are a
few good books - I expect that people have make recommendations - such as
Adler, Starhawk, the Farrer's.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Looking for names of gods and goddesses for baby
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:10:14 GMT

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
: 
: I am of the opinion that naming people (whether children or adults) after 
: God/desses is arrogance.  Giving the child a magical middle name makes sense
: to me, but there are gazillions of magical names that aren't God/desses.  Try
: names of trees, rocks, natural phenomena, etc.

But, in some societies, it was/is very common. But then, in those societies
the people do not tend to worship the gods so devoutly either. I am thinking
of the Norse cults, amoung others.

If you feel that divinity is in (and an unseparatable part of) you, why not
choose a name that has been assigned by humans to their deities?

I would ratherer interpret such an action as meaning that the parent hoped
the child would behave in a manner consistent with the traits assigned to
that particular deity.

Bill
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Happy Solstice/Good Eating!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Dec 92 08:03:47 GMT

Well, I'm off to see my mom, brothers, uncle, cousins, and all their
various wives/babies!  Have a great holiday, and eat like pigs!

See you all on the 29th!

Love to you all,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: joann@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Jo Ann Malina)
Subject: Re: pagon customs in cristmas
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 07:18:45 GMT

In article <Bz3xtA.Gv1@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Live evergreens were 'decorated' to honer the tree. -> things were put
>on the tree as offerings to the tree its self I think. The offerings were
>fruits and things because animals and birds would eat them.
>The worst coruption (in my mind) is the cutting down of the tree.

Yes, I think of this time of year as the Ritual Slaughter of the
Trees.  Some folks in Northern California used to have a tree planting
at New Year to sort of offset this, but I think they ran out of space
for more trees and quit doing it.  Would be a nice neo-pagan practice,
though, wouldn't it?

*) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *)!(* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (*
Jo Ann Malina, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
joann@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu  -or-  415/926-2846
Neither Stanford nor the DOE would be caught dead with these opinions.
Nor do they consult me when formulating theirs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When [the Druids] had found [mistletoe] they danced round the oak to
the tune of 'Hey derry down, down, down derry!' which literally signi-
fied 'In a circle move we round the oak.'"
                 Mrs. M. Grieve, "A Modern Herbal," Dover, 1971, 1931.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson)
Subject: Re: On an up note,
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:45:18 GMT

martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok) writes:

>what is it about where you life that suits you as who you would basically
>describe yourself as?  what makes it a place that pagans feel comfy in, or
>what spirit moves you in your area, some vista, or some attitude, or what?

I live in a suburb of Linkoeping, a big town for Sweden with its 
90 000 or so inhabitants. It's a university town, so I hang about with
students most of the time. It rains barely 500 mm a year, something I
value.

Between the house I live in and the country, there is only one other
row of houses. I also have a small garden. Incidentally, a week ago I
discovered an iron age grave on a hilltop less than 100 meters away! I
said hallo to the spirit in it. :) Maybe I'll do some kind of ritual
there on the 21st.

--Ceci

--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se=========================================== 
"I have the concentration span of a fruit fly. So, I watch game shows.
I write for 10-15 minutes, then I go watch a game show for 30 minutes,
then I write again."  				Ian McDonald
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Somalia [was: Start again]
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:52:09 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1992Dec11.233202.23812@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>>I can't even begin to imagine what's going on in the minds of the lame
>>duck government right now. Is this some last ditch effort to seriously
>>fuck with Clinton's administration by leaving him a nice little shooting
>>war to deal with? 
>
>Corun,
>
>I'll take the paranoid view. There seems to be little else by way of 
>justification for our involvement in Somalia. Similar and even worse 
>situations have existed all over Africa for years, and noone has even
>glanced in that direction. The many battlegrounds around the world
>have been classed as internal squabbles and ignored. Why Somalia?

I think the answer may be in the narcotic plant that the we're being told
is the cause of all the fighting over there. Maybe our internal drug runners,
you know, the three letter club, wants to introduce something new to supplant
the Colombian coke. Maybe the COlombians are asking for a bigger share of
the profits from the CIA and it's a scare tactic to make the Colombians
knuckle under. Woo! Talk about paranoid. ;-)

>I think the answer has more to do with Bush's lame-duck administration
>than with the internal politics and problems in Somalia. It really fries
>by beans that we're there at all, what with all the people here in dire
>straits.

Yeah, like I said above, I think Bush is just dicking with Clinton by leaving
him a little present. Otherwise, we'd be in Bosnia too.

>ps. I didn't ignore your request for the Latin translation. I still have
>some skills in reading, but I've forgotten how to compose accurately. Over
>the holidays I'm going to be visiting my folks, and since I need to bone
>up on my Latin anyway for my Master's program, I'm going to find my old
>Latin books. I'll try emailing it to you when I get a clue. :-)

Thanks, Murray. Have a good holiday.

Bb,
Corun



-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan