HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Messiaen plays Messiaen - a CD review
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:33:03 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

The death of Olivier Messiaen this year robbed the world of not only one
of its greatest composers, but also one of its greatest organists. 
Although many people have recorded Messiaen's organ works (there are
fine cycles played by Jennifer Bate and Hans-Ola Ericsson, among
others) no one has matched the composer himself in the recordings he
made in 1956 at the Eglise de Sainte-Trinite in Paris.  These recordings
now have been reissued on four budget-priced CDs from EMI/Angel
(CDZD 67400), and what they lack in sonic quality they more than make
up for in musical values. 

The set contains all of the music Messiaen wrote for the organ, with
the exception of three early works (before his tenure at La Trinite) and
the works written after 1956. The works are sensibly arranged in
chronological order, and three of the four discs play for longer than an
hour. 

Messiaen generously praised many interpreters of his music, even when
their performances were quite dissimilar from each other.  It is
interesting to hear the composer's own way with his music, and to find
that he is faithful to the letter of the score.  Of course his adherence to
the music's spirit is without question.  What seems excessive or even
self-indulgent in some other readings is incandescent and totally
convincing here.  

The biggest problem with these discs is the sound.  The recordings are
fairly primitive by 1956 standards; they are hissy, recessed and
plagued by technical glitches such as modulation noise and bad tape
edits.  Furthermore, the organ itself is unreliable, drifting out of tune
from time to time, perhaps under the influence of the Parisian summer. 
However, there is no arguing that the overall sound of the La Trinite
organ is right for this music, and at least the music doesn't disappear
in a bog of reverberation as it tends to do on some other recordings. 

For those who care about Messiaen and his music, this set is essential
listening.  Given the price, and the rapidity with which EMI/Angel
deletes items in its catalog, there should be no reason to hesitate with
this set. 





--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Cornelius Cardew
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:05:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.094755.13880@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
> I recall with great glee Ken Russell in his "ABC of British of Music" (a
> must viewing for all of you) superimposing his image over a Cardew
> concert, with him joining in the carpet-beating, yawning and saying
> something to the effect of "The trouble with modern music is it's still
> touted as modern when it's old hat and bypassed". Poor old Corny. 

KR's problem with someone like CC, of course, is that as a human being
he was just too goddamned *normal*. No sexual deviance, no highly-public
affairs. How very dull!

-- 
===============================================================
|Deryk Barker Computer Science Dept.  | Without music life    |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC	      | would be a mistake    |
|Canada 			      | (Friedrich Nietsche). |
===============================================================
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Top Ten Operas (was Re: La Traviata)
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:57:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Aug27.110907.1@gsbacd.uchicago.edu> ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.230758.15109@husc3.harvard.edu)
>Vinh Nguyen writes 
>> Ah well, Carmen, Traviata, Boheme, Aida, Figaro would probably make my
>> top 5 list of operas, with Trovatore, Tosca, Fledermaus (!), Lucia, and
>> Butterfly following suit to round off the top ten.  
>
>	You realize that you are starting a thread here that I am finding
>hard to resist,

Me too.

> even though I cringe philosophically from top-ten lists.

Me too.  But who cares?


So, my ten faves,

  La Boheme   (Puccini)
  Madame Butterfly (Puccini)
  La Traviata (Verdi)
  Otello (Verdi)
  The Marriage of Figaro (Mozart)
  The Magic Flute (Mozart)
  Die Walkure (Wagner)
  Le Elixir d'Amore (Donizetti)
  Carmen (Bizet) 
  Iolanthe (Gilbert and Sullivan) <I know, an operetta, 
      but it has to be here.  "Loudly let the Trumpets Bray!">

And an honorable mention from my childhood:  
    "Hansel and Gretel" (Humperdink) 

John D.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Preparing vs. was-Re: Supertitling
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 12:49:21 EDT

In article <1992Aug31.211633.33838@watson.ibm.com> jonms@pi.watson.ibm.com () writes:

>  A book with all the popular librettos costs 1/2 the price of a ticket.  It
>  is well worth the time to familiarize oneself with an opera first, it will
>  be more enjoyable if you're not sitting their confused.  Translations into
>  other than original language ruin a libretto when not expertly done.

I tried this approach once and I found it didn't work at all for me.  The
problem with just reading a libretto beforehand is that it's so divorced
from the music that it's hard to know during the performance which part
they're saying when.

Which raises a question:  How do others do their homework before going to
an unfamiliar opera for the first time?

I like to get a good recording and listen to it through 6 or 7 times.  On
occasion, I make myself a tape and play it in the car too.  I also like to
read up on interesting works, and the ENO and Cambridge series are both
excellent sources.

I have found that my friends who go with me often get the most out of
Milton Cross's synopses.  They not only describe the action, but they also
fit the action into place in its musical context.

Now if the opera is in English and the singers' diction is clear, then all
the above no longer need apply.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:01:15 GMT

In article <27AUG199213463534@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
[...]
>And while we are talking of Solti/Mahler 5, has anyone heard his newest
>DDD recording (also with CSO)?  I'd sure like a review.  I didn't care
>for his remake of the 9th, although his remakes of 2,3, and 4 were 
>improvements (his newest 1st is terrific too, but so was his first
>with the London group).

Sorry to disagree, but I've always thought that Solti's only *really*
worthwhile Mahler recordings were the 1964 LSO First and the eighth.
The others really seem superficial when you compare then with the
significant competition. 

>And now that I am displaying the obvious symptoms of Mahleria: I always
>felt that Solti's Mahler 8 is a stupendous experience that had no rivals
>even worthy of the name.  But I'm hearing good things about Tennstedt's
>recording (which I know has the digital advantage).  I had a chance to
>hear the entire 1st movement only in the local Tower recently, and I
>thought it was very good, but still not a threat to Solti.  Any thoughts?

Strangely enough I've still not heard the Tennstedt. I think Solti's
is good, but - as a performance rather than a recording - outclassed
by both of Bernstein's. Solti is a formidable orchestral technician,
but I don't think he's much of a thinker.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:58:45 GMT

In article <BtyrAy.J8y@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.172014.661@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska) writes:
>
>[after I said]
>>>And you forgot the one just before that, with Daniel Barenboim on DG.
>
>>It must have been my subconsciousness, because I truly, truly cannot
>>stand Barenboim.
>
>On the basis of a lot (not all) of his conducting, I could see why.
>
>But, Margaret, he's done some fabulous work as a song accompanist.  Some
>of my favorite recordings of anything are the Wolf volumes he and F-D
>did together for DG -- especially Volume 1 (all Moerike).  They are
>about the only team I know (conceivably F-D and Richter are another, I
>don't recall that disc as well) which has realized that the climaxes of
>some songs (such as Auf einer Wanderung) are in the *piano*, and must be
>allowed to take off in a soloistic way for a moment.  He also plays just
>beautifully in those sets.

Hm.  If you hold him in such esteem - at least as an accompanist - then
I should look into these recordings.  What made me dislike his performances 
were mainly some recordings of Mozart's piano concerti (must have
been made a long time ago) in which, if I recall correctly, he both 
conducted and played the piano part.  They were absolutely terrible,
horrible, and altogether shockingly bad.  Maybe he improved since.

-Margaret

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:35:06 GMT

Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder"!  The whole lush, romantic piece is worth
knowing, but the latter part gets into wild nightrides of phantom armies
(antiphonal men's choruses), doomed to wander forever because of their
king's blasphemy.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: forthcoming Michelangeli recitals?
From: Marco Simionato <simion@iveuncc.unive.it>
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:30:47 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Venezia (Italy)
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9X-XXDate: Wed, 2 Sep 92 13:32:26 GMTLines: 12

In article <5406@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> Ralph Becker-Szendy,
ralph@falcon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I may be confused, but I remember that he died a few years ago (a great
>loss). If someone knows for sure, please clarify.

Ralph, luckyly you got confused! I heard Michelangeli in Muenchen on June
8
and he was alive and kicking. He played damn well too.
A few years ago he had a stroke during a public performance, then he
underwent installation of heart bypasses, I think.

Marco
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@zardoz.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: Nigel Kennedy
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:04:00 GMT

 I think this one comes under the heading of `will success spoil
the boy?' - or fine artist, but bit of a pratt. His fine cockney
accent is something that he developed in his last five years (that's
according to his mum, and she should know) and the image seems to
be starting to swallow the man. I have his
recording of the Elgar concerto (with Vernon Handley) and it's a
marvellous performance (pretty close to the legendary Elgar/Menuhin
day at the races). His Walton is pretty fine too (by the way, anybody else
remember the fuss when Andre Previn and Vladimir Ashkenazi decided that
polonecks were their de rigeur for performance? )
But the Brahms that he recorded recently is (I think) awkward and 
lugubrious - a very studied, pedantic performance. 

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Martin Hasch)
Subject: Sergiu Celibidache
Reply-To: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Martin Hasch)
Organization: University of Ulm, SAI, Germany
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 01:26:45 GMT

Dear netters,

his dedicated fans rate him second to no other conductor in the world:
Maestro Sergiou Celibidache. I am beginning to see why this is the case
(not to mention am perhaps about to join them...)
Though, i am kind of curious about his reception in other parts, (hello
out there!) since it is not so easy to get to know a musician determined
not to produce recordings for sale.

What he does accomplish are tremendously successful performances (even
and especially with none-top-of-the-list ensembles) and great efforts
for musicians' education, despite his age of now over 80.

He accepts anybody who is interested to his courses. His rehearsals
are open to the public (and free, quite unlike the concerts :-)
Those living near Munich in that have a real advantage to the rest of
the world. His performances can, however, be perceived on the radio
from time to time, and he travels around a lot, so he is probably well
known to more than i am aware.

So, is it by chance i didn't see him mentioned on this forum up to now?
Which other conductors do you see close to him in attitude and/or
proficiency?

As for some information about his oncoming activities, here goes:

Overview of the programs Sergiu Celibidache will conduct in the
next few months:

A - Albert Roussel, Suite en fa op. 33
    Claude Debussy, "Iberia" from "Images" for orchestra
    Maurice Ravel, "Ma mere l'Oye"
    Claude Debussy, La mer

B - Schumann, Piano Concerto
    Sergej Prokofjev, Symphony No. 5 B flat major op. 100

C - Gioacchino Rossini, Ouverture to "The Silken Ladder"
    Dmitri Shostakovich, Concerto for Piano, Trumpet and String Orchestra
      c minor op. 35
    Jean Sibelius, Symphony No. 5 E flat major op. 82

D - Richard Strauss, Vier letzte Lieder for Soprano and Orchestra
    Peter I. Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6 b minor op. 74 "Pathetique"

Concerts are scheduled on following dates and locations:

Sep 11, Munich; Sep 13, Munich; Sep 16+17, Berlin; Sep 20, Munich (A).
Sep 25+26, Munich (B).
Oct 1+2, Singapore; Oct 4, Bangkok; Oct 6+7+8 Hongkong; Oct 10+11 Taipei;
Oct 14+15 Tokyo; Oct 17+19 Seoul.
Nov 4-9, Munich (C). Nov 14-17, Munich (D).

etc. etc.

With regards -
		Martin
-- 
+----------------+------------------------------------------+----------------+
|  Martin Hasch  |  Internet: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de  |  (o ) /  (o )  |
+----------------+------------------------------------------+----------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana and transposition
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:27:35 GMT
 <1992Aug26.022235.10818@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> <1992Aug26.034740.6867@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

roger@crux.Princeton.EDU () writes:

>a) It's history.  Used to be, you needed both.

>b) It's tradition.  Clarinet pedagogy, while including all scales, does
>not include transposition.

>c) It's notation.  Clarinet parts aren't notated that way, and redoing
>all the orchestral scores and parts is expensive, or was until recently.

>d) It's at least a weensy bit of tone color, too.  The A clarinet is
>a little darker.  Mozart liked it more than the B flat, as the Quintet,
>Concerto, A major piano concerto, etc., demonstrate.

>e) Many clarinetists can transpose, too, thank you.

>But there are still limits on the instrument's agility, and that's no insult.
>The extreme agility of the clarinet is the reason why it's the standard
>choice for a wind instrument (or 2 or 3) in 20th century pieces from 
>Pierrot Lunaire onward.

>>Dunno.  Why DO they make clarinets in A and C??

>All of the above.  They don't make many C clarinets, though ,and they
>*do* sound different.  Less wood to resonate.

Right, thank you, now I know.  All of the above make sense out of it.  By
the way, the horn (and all instruments that play harmonics) is also out of
tune with various fingerings.  But then the horn is out of tune for a lot of
other reasons, that make it fairly irrelevant --- you have to adjust using
hand, lip, etc.  I suppose that's not quite so straightforward on clarinets,
saxophones, oboes, etc.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: carnes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Re: Supertitling
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:55:12 GMT

In article <Btp9nG.MuI@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:

>As an alternative:  Why has everybody given up on performing opera in
>translation?  THAT is a live, compelling experience.  When I was a music
>student at Indiana U, I saw 6-8 operas a year in English.  The
>productions were not always wonderful (though often surprisingly good),
>but boy that was a wonderful way to wake up to what opera can be.  

Amen.  I first learned to love opera through an English-language
production of _The Marriage of Figaro_ at the Santa Fe Opera in 1972,
with Catherine Malfitano and the late Donald Gramm.  No doubt the
original languages are preferable if you understand them, but a
translated opera is better than an incomprehensible one, and Mozart
seems to translate pretty well.  Even though I understand Italian a
lot better than I did twenty years ago, "Il birbo Figaro vinto sara'"
still has less punch for me than the appropriately silly line "As for
that Figaro, I'll cook his goose".  Operas in translation make the
experience much more enjoyable for that large proportion of most
audiences who will not bother to study the libretto beforehand.

I was so taken with the first performance of the Mozart at Santa Fe
that I attended the remaining four as well (I was living in Santa Fe
at the time).  Incidentally, a late-night, open-air performance suits
Act IV wonderfully (although part of the Act II finale was rained out
once).  I was clerking at the hotel where the apprentices were
staying, and I remember Ashley Putnam as one of them, although I don't
recall her in performance.

Richard Carnes
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Lawrence Welk is dead
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:14:48 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug27.234528.15879@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:

>Oh, is this the endless contumely over John Cage? So sorry. Carry on!

"contumely"? I had to look up this word in a dictionary. It means
"rude language or treatment arising from haughtiness and contempt; also:
an instance of such language or treatment". Synonyms listed in a
thesaurus include:

      abuse, billingsgate, invective, obloquy, scurrility, vituperation

It has four different pronunciations! It derives from the Latin word
"contumelia". If you are contumelious, then you are "insolently
abusive and humiliating."

"billingsgate"? This means "coarsely abusive language". Billingsgate
was a fish market in London. In Britain (according to a dictionary)
the "gate" in Billingsgate is pronounced "git".

I don't think I'll be adding either word to my active vocabulary
anytime soon.

-- Brad Pierce --
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Candide broadcast
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:16:07 GMT
Summary: comments on the broadcast ...

My thanks to those who posted and thereby called my attention to this:

In article <Btx36K.Eo0@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu
(Jon Conrad) writes:

> That's it.  The composer's last revised version, conducted by him.  This
> London concert (1989) immediately preceded the recording that came out
> on DG, and has the same participants.  Almost everybody had colds, but
> the performance is by and large better than the DG one (I should say the
> audio one; this concert is out on DG video).  In particular, June
> Anderson sings in tune this time.  And Adolph Green doesn't even pretend
> to try to sing his high notes in "Dear Boy"; they make a gag out of Kurt
> Ollmann supplying them for him.

I would agree that June Anderson is better in this than on the CD --
most notably to my mind in the duet, "We are women."  The broadcast
has cut the first syphilis aria (the "Dear Boy" that Jon refers to,
to my mind the better of the two) so I could not see this, which I was
looking forward to after Jon's note.  I should say that I find Green
vastly charming, and would tend to thing that a better singer would
be a worse instantiation of the role.

> The narration is supplied by various soloists in turn, and Lenny turns
> around to fill us in from time to time too.  He probably does too much,
> but now that he's gone it becomes touching rather than bothersome.
> Anyway, the concert is definitely worth seeing.

Yes; it is truly grand to watch Lenny dance his way through the thing.

The broadcast also omitted the "boredom" song of the two women and,
more drastically, the whole scene in which Candide meets anti-Pangloss
("Don't make me laugh") and his swindling by the ship merchant ("Bon
voyage") and -- perhaps my favorite piece in the whole work -- the
kings' barcarolle.  I *do* hope that the "undedited" video tape being
flogged during the broadcast supplies some or all of these omissions.

Was this version ever staged?  is there a record (video?) of such?

-- 
Michael L. Siemon		The Son of Man has come eating and drinking;
				and you say "Behold, a glutton and a drunkard,
mls@usl.com			a friend of tax collectors and sinners."  And
standard disclaimer		yet, Wisdom is justified by all her children.
From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: new Sibelius' 2nd by Blomstedt
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:40:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Sep3.174042.28193
Organization: The Ohio State University

Has anyone out there had a chance to listen to Blomstedt/San
Francisco Symphony's reading of Sibelius Symphony #2, Tapiola,
and Valse Triste?  I'm in the market for a "thinking-person's"
Sibelius' 2nd (as opposed to such meat-and-potatoes versions
as Levi/Cleveland on Telarc), and was wondering what people
thought.
--jason
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical