HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogoff@netcom.com (Carolyn Rogoff David Rogoff)
Subject: looking for fencing equipment
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:43:24 GMT


Greetings, your worships.  
	As our archery group is gearing up for light weapons and
ultimately combat archery, I am looking for a used female fencing
chest guard.  Although I am a size 34, I won't mind if it
is a bit bigger! 
	Any suggestions?  Thanks.

Lady Saroj Gauri Dvija
Captain of Archers, Barony of Altavia, Caid
 
-- 
Carolyn & David Rogoff
  rogoff@netcom.com
    Synthesizers, birds, armour, OS/2 etc.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: out-of-period dancing
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:29:13 GMT

In article <720789747.F00001@ocitor.fidonet>, Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
|> ....
|>  LDH> Oh, weren't "peasant" dances rather lively?  Do we have
|>  LDH> any records (not lp's) of these dances?
|>  Nope.  We feel lucky to have the dance manuals of the noblity.  During 
|>  the time, dance was something you learned from someone else.  This was 
|>  much truer of the folk than the noblity.  We've totally lost the 
|>  Eastern European folk dances, because NOBODY recorded them.  Korobushka 
|>  is an early 20-th century construction.
|>       Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
|>          Steppes, Ansteorra

Is it possible to extrapolate backwards from later peasant dances?
What is the earliest peasant or country dances that we have?  Any
paintings or engravings?  Do we have no idea what the peasants were
up to? (with respect to dancing).

Now back to the more noble dancing.  You know it might be 
a great service to the Society if one of the marvelous
Dance teachers and a group of good dancers would provide
a video, with a companion instruction manual and audio
tape.  This might be a great way to distribute dances to
groups not lucky enough to have a local expert.  Sheet 
music would also be a nice accompaniment to the package.
There could be discussion about various interpretations
of the dance, and even show various accepted forms.
References would also be nice.  A whole series could be
done with various dance groups submitting tapes with
different dances.

Any comments?



-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: toad@nmt.edu (Tod Landis)
Subject: Re: Interkingdom Calibration
Organization: Electrical Eng. Dept. - New Mexico Tech
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:12:52 GMT

In article <seyOQqG00WB=Qst=sG@andrew.cmu.edu> David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Are Westerners supposed to hit like a ton of bricks?  
 
I have found in my expriences in the Outlands and the Midrealms that they
have two differnt styles of swinging the sword. in the Outlands one stands
in a linebackers stance and angled at ~35 degrees. to swing one applys the
strength of the torso and arm, but NOT using the wrist for power. the Midrealms
stand in a fencing stance, do not torque the torso and consequently use the 
wrist to "snap in" the shot. this can lead to an unspellable ailment if you 
have weak wrists. IMHO the amount of armor an area wears plays an interacting
part in all this, the Midrealms wearing less than the Outlands, and we're in a 
desert!

>Fighters with experience in multiple kingdoms,
>how do you read things?  Can we divide kingdoms into HARD, MEDIUM, and
>LIGHT calibration realms?  

I see the Outlands as HARD and Midrealms quasi-MEDIUM(no face thrusts)
>What social mechanisms are in place to get people to 'lighten up' if need be?

In tournament, all one needs to do is ask for a calibration of blows and 
discuss which ones you feel too weak/hard. This also helps curtail"rino-ing"
As for general melees, this is, I'm sad to mention, what brings about the 
arguments of people not dying or shooting to hard ect.

Llywds Acres of St. Golias
TOAD
From: ldouglas@engws4.ic.sunysb.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Scottish garb help needed...
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:27:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Originator: ldouglas@engws4.ic.sunysb.edu

I am intersted in finding out how to make Scottish garb.
I'm interested in learning more about my Scottish roots and thought,
"Hey! Why not use a Scottish persona!" Problem is I'm not all that familiar
with the Scotts! Any info would be highly appreciated!

                      Thanx...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh name question
From: Eric_Smith@kssib.ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith)
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:56:01 EST
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Distribution: world
Organization: NASA/KSC

In article <1992Nov5.221906.14383@news.cs.brandeis.edu>,
st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) wrote:

> "uerch", "verch" and "ferch". I don't know which is correct, but I do know

As has been stated in other notes (not quoted here) all are correct in
there own way.

The The welsh word for 'daughter' is 'merch', but when used in the form of
a patronymic, the 'm' mutates to an 'f', giving the word 'ferch'.

I could be totally wrong though.  I havn't been studing Cymreag for very
long and don't have my books handy right now.

Diolch y da boch

Maredudd ap Cynan
Shire Starhaven
Kingdon of Trimaris

P.S. Syr Benen Mactire provided a glorious perfomance in the Trimarian
Crown Tournament this past weekend.  Long live Prince Benen! (Soon to be
King!)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G.Guth)
Subject: Re: Scottish Dancing, early reels, laziness
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:46:02 GMT

To all good gentles of the Rialto, from Richard Britnell, Greetings!

My lady Gwenllian Cwmystwyth writes,
> possibly unique to a village or island. 
>   He does mention a period example of a longways set -- Chiarenza, with  an painting ca 1450 (Academia di Belle Arti, Florence, Adimari family) 
> which shows the longways set for several couples.  (Hmmmm, they may not 
> be facing.  I remember a painting w/several couples facing forward.)
>   Well, I'm about to be booted off....


I'm a fool to have forgotten it.  My lady, if ever I have the honor and
privilege of meeting you in person, please administer a swift kick to my
backside, for I have Caroso's 1581 version of Chiaranzana sitting right
here on my desk.  Of course, Chiaranzana is a longways dance, for an
undetermined number of couples...as many as will.  It is, as far as I
know, the only documnetably period dance where this is true.

It was also quite a popular dance, and one with many variations.  (Think
of a dance just as fun as Hole in the Head, but with many differe, "in 
order not to bore".  <sigh>

Richard Britnell of Salisbury.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: goldschm@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Goldschmidt)
Subject: Geo-Political SCA
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:30:25 GMT

Warning:  The following is a joke.  Those with short senses of humor
should not read this.       

I was having an amusing thought the other day:

As George Bush and his "New World Order" ride off into the sunset, I am
struck by the way that the SCA is really a new world order.  First of all,
all the kingdoms are set up to meet American standards of reality.  It's
probably no coincidence that Merideans can rest peacefully at night knowing
that the Yankees have their own kingdom and the South has at least two (if
not three) -- showing that they may have lost the War a hundred years ago,
but they have been victorious.  Midrealmers similarly can rest assured that
they need never enter Iowa if they do not want to.

The seat of power is not in some swamp in Atlantia, but rather in the true
center of Western Civilization:  California.  Meanwhile, like a Californian
wet dream, the state has been divided into two:  one for the TRUE 
Californians and one for those heathens "over there".  An Tirians, wishing
to prove that they are NOT Californians, have established their own 
NATION to drive the point home.

Then, we have Europe.  American fantasies about making Europe part of
the Northeast are beginning to slip away, but (except for a few Swedes)
D   
Drachenwalders seem to have accepted the single government and a united
Europe long before the mundane authorities.  Canada is another little
story.  L'Isle du Dragon Dormant may entertain the joys of being one
of the few SCA groups that can boast that at least THEY have decent
accents when they speak French, but the Canadian Treaty and Free Trade
agreements have been made moot by the way that the imperious USA has
sucked in Canada.  American fantasies about controlling the entire 
North American continent through divide and conquer have been realized.
 
So, as you can see, our Current Middle Ages actually have a lot of
appeal (if you are a Northern Californian) to the mundane world.

[Excuse the junk that follows:  I do not understand my mailer]

-- Paul Wickenden of Thanet 
   Worm Pursuivant and Poli Sci Grad Student Extraordinaire

D
D
modern appeal to (if you are a Californian
B

C
C
C
C
C
C
C
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
A
A
A
A
A
C
B
B
B
B
A

D
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
C
C
C
C
B
Cle
most Drachenwalders seem to have accepted a sin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: moochie@camelot.bradley.edu (Melissa Koontz)
Subject: Re: You know you're SCAdian.
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:49:30 GMT


   ....When your roomate walks in as you are practicing fighting
techniques in your dorm room.

    ....Another good one is trying to explain to your RA why the sound
of clashing foils is coming out of your dorm room.

:-)

--
   Let your mind start a journey through a strange new world!
   Leave all thoughts of the world you knew before!
   Let your soul take you where you long to be!
   Only then can you belong to me...
                                        - Phantom of the Opera
moochie@camelot.bradley.edu             Adelind von Rosenberg
From: trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Skewering mundanes
Date: 3 Nov 92 21:13:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx5sA1.KsJ
Organization: Open Communications Forum



Ah...forgotten tactics!

This brings to mind a recent discussion elsewhere/elsewhen.

How do you and your neighbors protect yourselves from drive-by shooters if all
you have is bows? (After many wrong answers, including by the person who had
brought the subject up, I put this forth.) You cannot compare apples and dogs.
The proper tactic, were you to seriously need to use it, is to have them all
practice, and become well drilled. In the event of the shooting, everyone
rushes into their *back* yard, and shoots into the sky at pre-determined
coordinates, resulting in a hail of arrows out in the street, shot *over* the
houses.

How relevant is this? Only in this wise. People who get their jollies out of
intimidating others, for whatever mental or idiological motive, are by nature
cowards. The knowledge that the people they are attacking are armed is a
deterant. For the most part, they will just go find easier game unless they
*need* the territory involved (which was not the case in Carolus' story). Now
we all pray that this never becomes an important issue with the SCA, but he does
have a couple of points. Any weapon is better than none under such conditions,
BUT you must know the proper tactics for the situation; and, safety cannot
always be counted upon to be provided by others. 

Modern man seems to be developing this odd notion that life is *supposed* to
be safe. Not that life is something you should strive to make as safe as you
need, but that it's your *right* to be safe. Historically, this is lunacy.
The people we deign to recreate would not have understood this for a minute.
Up until the last 4 or so generations in this continent, (and not including
Mexico) everyone knew life was not safe, and no one except perhaps monks and
nuns expected it to be....

Moreach NicMhaolain
Gadfly
trifid@agora.rain.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Patent of Arms / Order of Precedence question
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:05:05 GMT


Dagonell Collingwood, the Juggler, asks:
                      Question: where does someone with a Duchy/County/Vicounty
  rank WITHOUT a patent of arms rank on a Order of Precedence?  With the others
  of their rank?  Just below?  Where they were before?  Below all the patents of
  arms?

Corpora:  On Patent orders (VII.A.2)
       2. Order of Precedence Within the Peerage.  The Crown may establish
  the order of precedence within the peerage according to the laws and
  customs of the kingdom. However, the Chivalry, the Laurel, and the
  Pelican are of equal precedence and must be considered as one group.

Corpora: On Armigerous Awards (VII.B.2.a)
       a. The order of precedence among orders conferring Awards or
  Grants of Arms shall be established according to the laws and customs
  of the kingdoms. 

Corpora: On Other Awards (VII.B.3.b)
      The Crown must approve any non-armigerous award or order before
  it may be recognized by the College of Heralds of a kingdom and given
  a place in its Order of Precedence.  

I just checked EK law.  Except for a few special cases, where non-armigerous
awards, or certain titles rank themselves in relevant precedence, or titles
disclaim any precedence whatsoever, no order of precedence is listed!

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: >swords...
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 16:53:06 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BxA7w5.9LK@ccu.umanitoba.ca> thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton) writes:
>In <1992Nov4.211436.2657@nmt.edu> toad@nmt.edu (Tod Landis) writes:
>>I have just one question about the "red-neck" incedent, why do only the 
>>"red-necks" have guns? Granted this state(New Mexico) has some of the 
>>lamest gun laws about, but a gun locked away in ones car seems reasonable. 

>Authorities in Canada do _not_ think it's reasonable to keep fire-arms
>handy for self-defense and to happen to have a hunting rifle handy at
>an SCA event makes for a pretty poor defense. I'm not sure if Carolus
>is going overboard or not, but a sharp sword is probably the most
>lethal legal weapon to have around.

Actually, a knife over 3" long (or something like that) is an
illegal weapon...Sharp or not. So is any object, if 
"brandished" in a threatening manner.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Constabulary and Weapons
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 19:10:00 -0500

CP> I hold that the constabulary is in a similar position.
 
If I might interject, milord, I have been following this thread to some extent
from the beginning and my gut feeling is this: although you may feel a noble
compulsion to provide for the physical safety of your fellow SCAdians even unto
armed confrontation, that is *not* the duty of an SCA constable nor *any* SCA
official acting under the auspices of the Society.
 
It is, IMHO, contrary to the aims of the SCA to create titled officers charged
with the duty to provide vigilante justice at SCA events.  That is exactly one
of the images we should avoid at all costs.  If the need is felt to provide
extraordinary security at an event and it is not practical to prudently relocate
the event to a more secure location, then proper measures should be taken by the
autocrat to hire or otherwise engage properly licensed contractual security
personnel.
 
I can sympathize, in part, with your position.  I firmly believe that no one
should carry a weapon that they are not prepared to use.  I, too, have been
known to carry 'live' steel in place of in addition to my 'garb' steel and have
even attended an event or two wearing a sidearm (properly permitted and legal).
*But*, I have *not* nor would I *ever* do so while working as an officer of the
SCA. If it were ever to becomes necessary for me to take violent action in
defense of myself or anyone else (in the SCA *or* mundanely, for that matter), I
would do so under my _own_ responsibility and would not attempt to claim any
duty from the SCA.
 
CP> It means, essentially, that our job requires us to do things
CP> we hate, find uncomfortable, or maybe even *dangerous* if
CP> the safety and security of SCAdians is at issue.
 
With respect, milord, I think your perspective and sense of proportion in this
issue is off. If you prepare for violence, it *will* eventually find you. Please
don't drag the Society into it with you.
 
CP> People pointing guns was an extreme example, but let me
CP> propose another: If a child is being stung by wasps,
CP> after knocking over a nest, it's my duty as a constable
CP> to go in there, get stung myself, to get the kid out.
 
It is the 'duty' of any conscientious person to render aid to anyone else in
need as able to do so.  Volunteering to be a constable only sets you forward as
someone who is willing to render aid when you are able or perform certain other
helping functions.  Violent confrontation is not one of those functions.
 
Peace, milord.
 
Lord Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: OOP ?
Date: 2 Nov 92 21:29:06 GMT


 k> As a still-a-newcomer to the Rialto I think it is the time now
 k> for a stupid question:
 k> What does the frequently abreviation OOP mean?
 k>  Ekkehart von Wartstein
  Milord, I'm sure you'll receive many, many replies, but I didn't see 
 any just yet, so here it is:
     Out Of Period
 Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Fealty, not oaths, to a kingdom
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 16:32:47 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Dorothea wrote:

> The language used in the West is "fealty" for Peers or Barons or Great
> Officers; occasionally "homage" for the rest of the populace...

Interesting.  Do you have any idea how & why this usage started?  I ask for
a simple reason: It is incorrect.  I won't bore everyone with another
description of the difference between homage and fealty, since I'm sure
everyone's read it before.  Peers should do homage (and that is, in fact,
the meaning of most of the SCA's "fealty oaths"), and there is no reason
why non-peers should not swear fealty to the Crown (which is what some of
them actually do when they join the royal household or make any other
commitment to serve the Crown).

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: Peasant dancing & videos
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:31:58 GMT

In article <721217317.F00002@ocitor.fidonet>, Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
|>     Do I correctly deduce from your sig. that you're from Georgia?  

Yep, I am from Meridies/Georgia.

|>  If so, are you inquiring because you don't see much dance or why?  
|>  Just curious  In Ansteorra, we've got a quasi-annual Dance Workshop weekend.  
|>  Or,  truly out-in-the-boonies-can't-travel|>  groups might split expenses to 
|>  bring in a dance teacher.
|>        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
|>           Steppes, Ansteorra
|> 

There is actually a good deal of dance around here.  Recently
the Barony of Bryn Madoc presented several Itallian Ren. Dances
at the Georgia Museum of Art in conjunction with a whole display
of Itallian Ren. art and literature(originals).  My reason for
asking is that I personally know next to nothing about dance.
Each time I dance at a revel, I am taught a little more by the
Dance Mistress/Master who is leading.  I have been able to
attend a couple of classes at collegiums, but it is difficult
to get the whole scope.  Also, I have seen a wide variety of
knowledge displayed by different teachers.  I am lucky that
the first time I was taught Hole in the Wall, I was told that
the dance was not period.  But, for MANY people it seems to
come as a surprise.

I believe that the dance videos would provide an efficient
way to exchange dance knowledge and possible reconstructions.
It would also be useful for those who wish to know more, but
cannot always dedicate enough time at events to be personnally
instructed.

For example:  One of the things I have seen that works well,
is that a dancing revel is held at an event after the feast
and no dancing is taught at the revel.  Instead the dances
are taught at workshops of Friday night and usually sometime
during the day on Saturday.  However, I am usually in the
kitchen at those times.  I go to the revel and only dance in
the dances which I know (or fake).  If I video's of various
dances which I could learn and practice, then I could participate
more in the dancing.

Also, those out of the way shires would have a nice resource
to use when dance expertise was unavailable.

In Service...

Aoghann


-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: OOP Dance/fun period dances
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:14:00 GMT

> Here's my quesiton for you and the rest of the dance teachers on the  ialto:
>Rialto: 
>
> How do you handle teaching at revels?  Do you give in and do it?  DO  ou have  deputies to take the unlearned to one side and instruct while you run the  rest of them through the dance?  Or do you not teach at all in the evening?
>you have  deputies to take the unlearned to one side and instruct while you run the  rest of them through the dance?  Or do you not teach at all in the evening?
>  you run the  rest of them through the dance?  Or do you not teach at all in the evening?
> all in the evening?
> Anyone got a  solution that works?  Ansteorra doesn't dance as much as some of the other  kingdoms (I think it's because we camp instead of having indoor events, and  campfires are harder to dance around than feast tables.) so the level of  dance ed
>cation isn't as high as some other areas.....but everyone knows Hole  in the Wall.  I think it's the National Dance of Ansteorra.
>
> -- may your toes never tire!
>
> - Vashti (I'll sleep when I finish dancing)
Vashti,
I don't know if you are coming to Crown Tourney this weekend, but if you
are you might want to get with H.L. Estril Swet to rope people into
dancing after the feast. She has taught our shire (Mooneschadowe) many
dances. I probably know about 20 dances, thanks to her. BTW, her
nickname is " The Evil Dancemistress of Pain'.
                  May you be light on your feet,
                                   Marke
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA