HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Subject: Re: Little Planes
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:32:35 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <KMEYER.92Jul27141050@solarium.aero.org> kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
> Probably the three greatest dangers on an express flight are
> (1) getting airsick, (2) having someone nearby you get airsick and
> (3) not being able to hear anything when you get off the plane.

Or (4) having to go to the bathroom in midflight.  My mother flew to
Richmond, VA last weekend with her cousin for a wedding.  The cousin made
the ticket arrangements and booked with TWA.  My mother did not realize
until she got to the plane that it was a Jetstream 31 (code J31 in the
schedules) and only had 19 seats, and no bathroom.  She was not pleased.
They also misplaced her luggage on the return flight, delivered it the next
day.  She is planning to write a letter to TWA, but I don't see how she can
complain about the type of aircraft used on the flight.  Of course, her
cousin made the reservations directly thru TWA and probably never realized
what kind of plane it was.  Score one more for going thru a travel agent,
who also would have gotten them a fare reduction when the sales were going
on (the cousin bought the tickets by CHECK and never bothered to look into
getting the prices cut).

Personally, the only thing I mind about these planes is that they take
longer to get where you're going.

-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: llew@coal.WPI.EDU (Lew Yan Voon)
Subject: Re: USAir/British Airways Deal
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:17:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.161743.3570@news.acns.nwu.edu> staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers) writes:
>miles are 750.  USAir just gave me 10,000 miles to join their FF club,
>(plus a couple of 1st class updgrades) so I don't have all the info 

10,000??? i only got 2,000 when i joined last year.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: anderson@williams.EDU ()
Subject: L1011 at JFK  -  Was : Re: TWA again
Reply-To: James.C.Anderrson@Williams.Edu
Organization: Williams College Center For Computing
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:30:06 GMT



Haerd on the radio they found fuel on the runway at somepoint previous to where the plane stopped.  I heard the number 2500 (feet), now whether that's 2500 feet back from where the plane stopped (not think you stop an L1011 that fast) or the 2500 foot mark on the runway itself (more likely) I'm not sure.

--
********************************************************************************
Jim Anderson						Williams College
Systems Manager						Center for Computing
janderson@williams.edu (Internet)			Jesup Hall
janderson@williams.bitnet				Williamstown, MA 01267
							413-597-2082
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Subject: Re: AA - Citibank Visa/Mastercard
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:34:08 GMT

In article <NICKLAUS.92Jul30115239@lonetree.lonetree.physics.wisc.edu> nicklaus@lonetree.lonetree.physics.wisc.edu (Dennis J. Nicklaus) writes:
>
> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>[regarding getting max miles on FF Visa card hint]
>>   When you go out to dinner with your friends, collect
>>   the money from them for the check and pay it with your Visa.  Etc. Etc.o
>Chapter 1 in "How to Annoy Friends and Be a Pain in the Butt"
>Maybe if you go out with each friend only once.
>It's ok to do this occasionally if you truly find yourself
>short of cash at the restaurant.  But to do this purposely
>and habitually is really a pain in the ass (speaking as someone
>who has gone out with people who always seem to want to do this).
>Suppose I want to do it too?  Suppose everybody in the 10-person-dinner-party
>wants to use their VISA card just to get the miles?

Which is why I always ask, "Does anyone mind if I pay with my
MasterCard?" before collecting the take from the other diners.  No one
has ever objected.  Everyone knows why I'm doing it, and no one minds
me racking up miles for a free trip, probably because they know it's
hard enough to get me on a plane in the first place.

Charleen

--
I had my coathangers spayed.     -- Steven Wright
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,alt.peeves
From: eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell)
Subject: Re: Cryin' baby express ... what to do?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:19:26 GMT

In <l6c2ttINNgh0@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:



>Seriously, though, misbehaving small children are a genuine peeve of mine,
>on or off of airplanes, and they seem to getting more numerous all the 
>time -- acting in a manner that would've caused my own parents to knock my
>head off, had I behaved that way at their age.  More and more of the 
>parents I encounter are incredibly oblivious to the disturbances created 
>by their progeny, and I resent that.

I think it is all these "know-it-all psychologists" who claim that correcting a
child will do permanent emotional damage to the child. Like other theories, I
bet in fifteen years we will discover that they were wrong and we will have
millions of adult brats walking around with even bigger problems.

73s Eric, WB1HBU  eac@world.std.com
From: t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman)
Subject: Re: Cryin' baby express ... what to do?
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:44:15 GMT

yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
: In article <mcnally.712021277@wsl.pa.dec.com> mcnally@wsl.dec.com (Mike McNally) writes:
: >Corporal punishment of children is illegal in Sweden and has been for
: >some time.  I wonder if more and more Swedes are brats with problems?
: 
: Perhaps they're just learning that the only valid way of affecting someone's
: behavior is persuading him to share your faith in peace, love, and common
: humanity.
: 
: This would fit quite nicely with the usual Swedish style, prevalent
: ever since Gustavus Adolphus bought up the national gonad supply
: and lost it all in the icy Volga, dooming Sweden to eternal neutrality
: but bringing joy to caviar-lovers in the centuries to follow.
: 
: c
Eh, I think you are thinking of another historical event. Gustavus Adolphus
was shot on the battlefield of Lutzen (he was quite fat), but the battle was
won. It was Charles the 12th who lost lots of swedish territory, mainly
because the russians got organized. Charles the 12th were later shot, either
by norwegians or his own troops.
	btw, it's illegal to hit children in Sweden, but (this part is 
difficult for me to comprehend)	you don't get in trouble with the police 
unless it's a real beating. I think Finland, Norway, Denmark and Holland have
a similar law (correct me if i'm wrong)..
peeve: the olympic committee.

--
Sven Wallman, S:t Larsg. 5, 753 11 Uppsala, Sweden, +46 1812 9237
From: AXLEROD@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Harvey Axlerod)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: USAir/British Airways Deal
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:07:06 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo

In article <1992Jul23.071409.24058@athena.mit.edu>
davelett@athena.mit.edu (Richard Sun) writes:
 
>
>Wrong.  Airlines, though they are decreasing in number, still rely on FF
>programs to win customer loyalty.  In a business where the product is as
>easily substituted as the airline business, this is a very important way
>to keep a customer base.  More importantly, not only does a FF program
>encourage people to fly on a particular airline, but it encourages people
>to fly, especially for business travellers.  While it is true that
>airlines must raise fares to accommodate for
>the cost of these programs, it also must be taken into account that a big
>airline's revenues are driven by business travellers, many of which don't
>care how much they pay, but care more about which FF program can be used.
>
   I agree entirely. Customer loyalty is all the airlines have. Further,
consider that just this week, USAir LOWERED its FF miles on all European
flights. Hmmm. Then consider that as of Aug 1, Delta is will announce new and
hopefully improved FF milage schedule.
 
 
>Also, expect a bid by USAir Group for TWA's assets, something like the PanAm
>deal with Delta Air Lines, Inc., only not as hostile.  USAir allowed the
>BA purchase mainly to produce capital to purchase most, if not all, of TWA.
>I would expect USAir's and TWA's FF programs to merge in such a case, but
>I wouldn't bet the barn on it.
   When USAir bought Piedmont, they meged the miles, and even allowed Piedmont
FFers to cash in at the Piedmont rates, which were more liberal. USAir lives
because of their superior FF program.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvey Axlerod                   Voice:    716-636-3570
University at Buffalo            FAX:      716-636-3734
University Computing Services    BITNET :  axLErod@ubvm
224 Computing Center             Internet: axLErod@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Buffalo, New York 14260
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Subject: Re: Bumpy Ride (was: Best Airlines)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Jul21.213921.930@pony.Ingres.COM>
	<SDL.92Jul22180140@rigel.linus.mitre.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:43:10 GMT

On 22 Jul 92 23:01:40 GMT, sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk) said:
> However, a pilot who flies airliners for Northwest Airlines told me
> that just how much turbulence is acceptable is a policy that varies
> from airline to airline.  (Obvious reason: flying around turbulence
> wastes fuel.)  He even said that on occasions where NorthWest policy
> stipulated avoiding turbulence, planes from USAir just flew right
> through it.

> Does anyone know if this is true?  If so, does anyone know what some
> of the turbulence acceptability policies are among the major airlines?

During the gulf war, when airfares were cheap and flights were
relatively empty, there were newspaper articles that stated "flying
through turbulence" (rather than around it) is one way that airlines
would save fuel & money.  None of the articles ever seemed to mention
an industry source for this statement, so I have no idea if it is 
true or not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:3614 misc.forsale:22267
From: guerra@tsc.cs.unc.edu (Carlos Guerra)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,misc.forsale
Subject: one-way ticket for sale
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:43:29 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel.air

One-way ticket for sale on Delta:

  from: Raleigh/Durham (North Carolina)
  to: Indianapolis (IN)
  departure date: August 4th at 9:45 am
  asking $50


e-mail: guerra@cs.unc.edu
Phone # until July 31st: (919)932-1779
Phone # starting August 1st: (919)914-6851
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 13:44:24 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject:    Badmouthing the Airbus

Before badmouthing the Airbus 320 - or any other airplane - I'd suggest
netters obtain copies of the investigation panels report into crashes.
There is no 'component that enables the Airbus to fly into trees at the
end of the runway' or permits an incorrect rate of descent to be entered.
Just badly trained aircrew.
On the other hand, the 767 thrust reverser lock valve, or the 737 and 747
incorrectly-wired fire extinguishers in the cargo holds, or the 747 and DC-10
cargo door latches, and the DC-10 hydraulic line routings, and the Tri-Star
autopilot disconnect button wirings, were ALL hardware faults. Nuff said.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: cheeky@athena.mit.edu (Cheekiang Lim)
Subject: Cheap fare from SFO --> LA r/t
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:21:22 GMT

Anyone can suggest any cheap airline to fly between those two somewhere during
the 3rd week of August ? Are there any shuttle flights between them ? Also, will
it be cheaper to fly from say Oakland instead ? I was told that Southwest will be
a good deal, but how reliable are they, esp when they are likely to go bankrupt
anytime now ? Also, anyone has any idea of the r/t fare via bus and/or rail

cheeky@athena.mit.edu

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: tucker@eedsp.gatech.edu (Jeff Tucker)
Subject: Protocol for Ticket Sales Postings
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:43:50 GMT

I'm sure that many of you know that a sizable percentage of traffic
in this newsgroup is postings for tickets for sale.  Given that that
is appropriate for this newsgroup, it would be nice to be able to filter
out these postings for those who aren't interested in them.

I don't really fly that much.  And, I would never be interested in a 
one-way ticket.  So, I'd like to not have to wade through the postings.
Perhaps we could agree that all for sale postings start with something like
Ticket:  or Sale:  or something else appropriate.  That way, will KILL file
massaging, we can filter those out.

I think it will be useful to those looking for tickets and those who aren't.
Clearly, if it's just me then ignore me.  But, if others feel similarly then
speak up and we can reach some consensus.  Thanks for you time.
-- 
---------------------------
Jeff Tucker                         N9HZQ, EMT-A
tucker@eedsp.gatech.edu             Graduate Student, Electrical Engineering
May all your throws be bulls!       Georgia Institute of Technology
Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:3383 alt.peeves:12421
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,alt.peeves
Subject: Re: Cryin' baby express ... what to do?
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:50:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel.air
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <1992Jul21.200950.10447@alw.nih.gov> pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss) writes:
>Well, thus far this thread didn't bring as much flames as expected. So some
>people think it's a time to say something more harsh.
>
>E.g., in article <1992Jul20.235321.27814@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>>
>>children who aren't old enough to behave in public places shouldn't
>>travel.  
>>
>Would you be so kind to define it? What does it really mean - to behave
>properly?


No crying, screaming, shouting, running up and down the aisles or
"visiting" people who don't want to be visited. Playing peek-a-boo
with a perky toddler in the seat in front of me is fun. Listening
to a kid scream its lungs out because the waitre....er..stewardess
does not have Hershey kisses or some other special treat is enough
to make me look for Valium or a parachute.

>Once a couple sitting next to us made a hell of noise. They demanded my
>kids to sit in their chairs without any motion. "You parents better wrap
>your boys with a good rope for all 13 hours of the flight" 

Did they really say that? That's pretty rude.
>
>While the kids just enjoyed the flight, with no crying or screaming.

That is what constitutes "well-behaved" in my book.

>Meanwhile, I vote for "+kids" compartment. Some toys and some cartoons for
>the same price... well, I'm ready to sacrifice my beer and my movies to
>make this dream real :) :)

Me, too. I wish they could designate a special area for families. The kids
can all talk to each other and make new friends, there would be kiddie
books and toys around and people who get stressed out from travel (like me)
could get peace and quiet). They give out decks of cards on some flights.
I don't see why they cannot give out crayolas and paper to kids.

ER
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know when it was that I scratched Fate's car door, but I should have
left a note. --Tim Mefford
From: ngupta@mtl.mit.edu (Nitin Gupta)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: FF Magagines/Newsletters
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:19:03 GMT
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology

In article <1992Jul27.190354.9391@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>  
wb@rigel.cc.bellcore.com (Bill Beblo) writes:
> Can anyone recommend any magazines or newsletters which summarize FF  
programs,
> in particular, changes that I would miss if I didn't get the airline
> flyers each month?  I recently heard about Inside Flyer magazine.  Are
> they any good?  Can someone supply an address and cost to obtain a
> subscription?

Please post this information, particularly for Frequent Flyer magazine.
I checked with a magazine service, and they don't offer it. I also called  
for if they have an 800 number, but no go. The local newstand carries  
everything (almost) but no Frequent Flyer. They do carry the (Dan) Quayle  
Quarterly, however. 

A phone number for Frequent Flyer's subscription service would be great.

Thanks in advance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitin Gupta                       MIT Submicron Structures Laboratory
ngupta@mtl.mit.edu       NeXT Mail Encouraged            617 253 0721
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: kells@iis.ethz.ch (Kevin Kells)
Subject: Re: Aero Flot Travel
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:04:58 GMT

I write:

>There was only one "class" on all the flights (relic of the communist era?). 
>All the seats were arranged similar to "economy" seats on other airlines.

No, this is wrong. I should have said that this was only on the
DOMESTIC flights that I took (I don't think my speculative and
controversial remark about the communist era makes much sense if
applied to the international flights, anyway).

The "communist era" remark is my own personal impression. Standard
disclaimer applies.

Kevin

--
Kevin Kells <kells@iis.ethz.ch>         telephone: +41-1-256-5746
Integrated Systems Laboratory, ETH-Zentrum, CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland
From: ngupta@mtl.mit.edu (Nitin Gupta)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Cheap fare from SFO --> LA r/t
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:49:36 GMT
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology

In article <1992Jul27.212122.2168@athena.mit.edu> cheeky@athena.mit.edu  
(Cheekiang Lim) writes:
> I was told that Southwest will be a good deal, but how reliable are
> they, esp when they are likely to go bankrupt anytime now ?

Really???????  Didn't they post a profit last quarter in addition to  
forcing American to pull out of routes that Southwest operates. It would  
seem that they are doing better than most right now.

I'm confused. <DOH>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitin Gupta                       MIT Submicron Structures Laboratory
ngupta@mtl.mit.edu       NeXT Mail Encouraged            617 253 0721
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: AXLEROD@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Harvey Axlerod)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: USAir/British Airways Deal
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:18:45 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo

Since I wrote the following, I guess I should explain further:
 
>
>>> [As of] Aug 1, Delta is will announce new and
>>>hopefully improved FF milage schedule.
>>
>>Really?  Where did you hear that, and do you have any further details?
 
This was promised in my recent Delta statement. I called the Delta FF people,
and they explained it was only a reduction in the FF miles needed to upgrade to
business and 1-st class. The brochures are already available, according to
them. Sorry, the miles needed remain the same.
   Call Delta FF for further details.... 1-800-3232323
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:56:57 EDT
From: <JXO8@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: info requested on Garuda Indonesia Airlines

I'm posting this for a friend who is leaving this coming weekend
for a vacation which will take her on Garuda Indonesia Airlines.
She has found NO information out about the airlines and quite
frankly is skeptical about them.  Does anyone out there have any
comments, conerns or other information that might make her
vacation a little less stressful??????  Thanks.
From: philip@vogon.cetia.fr (Philip Peake)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: TWA
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:58:48 GMT
Reply-To: philip@vogon.cetia.fr (Philip Peake)
Organization: CETIA, France

In article <2A6EE18A.13792@ics.uci.edu>, davida@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (David A. Andersen) writes:
|> 
|> >The same rumors have been here in Germany. It sounded like BA would
|> >give lots of $$$$ to USAir to buy TWA. But nothing has been comfirmed
|> >right now. TWA still has lots of A330/340 contracts and will be one
|> >of the first users of these airplanes.
|> 
|> I would assume that this is the primary reason that Brit Air has an
|> interest in USAir.

BA has *no* interest in these planes.
They have chosen to rest with Boeing, and fly 767s etc - and received
a lot of flack because of the choice of US planes over european ones.

|>    US: USAir.  Somewhat ok financial standing....except for the
|>        recent move around when Colodny left (Pres?).  Hub is
|>        in the East Coast, which is good for all of the cities
|>        that BA wants to fly to, but can't because they simply
|>        can't get the "number" of flights into the cities.
|>        I'm referring to: Boston, Philadelphia, PIT (of course),
|>        and just about anywhere else on the East Coast that's not
|>        JFK or IAD.

BA already fly to Boston ...

Philip
Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:3406 rec.travel:10555
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Badmouthing the Airbus
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:14:54 GMT

In article <KMEYER.92Jul29132226@solarium.aero.org> kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
>A plane can be mechanically sound but still be difficult to fly safely,
>in which case the user interface shouldn't have been designed the way
>it was designed.

And, in fact, the A320's structural, wing, and many aspects of its system
design is remarkably conventional.  The "revolution" is in "command and
control," the cockpit and its interfaces.





---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg)
Subject: Re: FEAR & BOEING 767
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:53:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.114339.23273@cs.ruu.nl> jaap@cs.ruu.nl (Jaap Romers) writes:
[snip]
>When the B767 came in to service, there were special rules and routes
>for crossing the Atlantic. But it is proven that the 767 is reliable,
>so these special rules are not valid anymore. They are free to fly any
>route, like the B747.
>
>Maybe there is some expert who can tell more about it.

Well, I'm no expert but I just read an article in AvWeek about ERTOPS,
also called ETOPS (Extended Two engine OPerationS).  The idea is that
airlines set aside special airplanes, engines, and maintenance crews
devoted to ERTOPS.  They start with a 90 minute rating, which means
they can fly any routes within 90 air minutes of an alternate airport.
The airlines maintain strict records of maintenance and flight
incidents, and when they prove to the FAA that they know how to and
ACTUALLY DO get their planes to a certain level of reliability, they
are awarded the next ERTOPS level (I believe it's 120 minutes).  They
work their way up to a 180 minute rating.

The Atlantic is actually pretty easy with Newfoundland and the Azores
as alternate airports.  The airlines are just now getting the 180
minute ratings which are required for US mainland to Hawaii flight
segments.

Erik
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,alt.peeves