From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Supporting Fraud and Libel on UseNet
Summary: making claims that historians never made 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:12:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.083354.28096@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.
edu (Vedat  Dogan) responded to article <1992Dec24.163503.18610@urartu.sdpa.
org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) who wrote:

[VD][claim] Bernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,
[VD][claim] Princeton University.
[VD][claim] ... more "claims" deleted

[DD] Let's just take one on this list, and read what he has to say on this 
[DD] subject:
 
[VD]      let's look at it..  
 
[DD] "...the terrible holocaust of 1915, when a million and a half Armenians
[DD] perished..." 
 
[VD]   is this the way you 'quote' from the books, Mr. Davidian..

Go to the library, get the book, and YOU quote from it! I gave you the 
reference...now go and check it out.
 
[VD] I may 'quote' the same sentence in Mr.Davidian's way...
[VD] 
[VD]  "....the terrible holocaust of 1915, when an unknown number of Turks 
[VD]   perished." 
  
[VD]    how did you like it..
   
Non-sequitur! How I like your made-up text is a non-issue here!

[VD]  In your quotation:
[VD]  
[VD]   where is the "according to some estimates"?
[VD]   where is the " up to"?
[VD]   where is the "as well as an unknown number of Turks"?
 
Non-sequitur. If you wish to know more regarding Bernard Lewis, get the book
and read it. In addition, I gave you the same quote from the Turkish 
translation of the book! 

[VD]  new skill in lying?
[VD] 
[VD]   armenians killed turks !!! ooo no,.. B.Lewis must be kidding..

I guess you were fooled all your life! Please note that it was the Turkish 
Historical Society that translated Bernard Lewis's text, and as you well know,
his text is a major work on Modern Turkey. I know, I know, a confused lot! In 
fact, when the book was being translated, the Turkish government was 
propagating Greekophobia, not Armenophobia, circa early 1960's. The Armenians 
represented very little then, so the Turkish Historical Society didn't have to
lie about them. It was not until the assasination of Turkish government 
officials, etc., after 1975, did Turkey's dark past become a threat to Turkey's
image, thus generating the piles of historical garbage we see refuted daily on
this network, making a laughing stock of otherwise, majority, well- intentioned
Turks on UseNet.

[DD]DIRECTLY FROM _The Emergence of Modern Turkey_, Bernard Lewis, 1961, page 
[DD] 350
[VD]    I
[VD]    I
[VD]    I
[VD]    l___________>>>>> but, via david davidian..
 
Avoid using the "I" and ">", but try the |, and to connect the dots try +.

[VD]    it means something is wrong as usual...

Sure, kill the messenger!

[VD] ismet 

Oh, you want to know what is wrong: I took an author from a list given by the 
Argic login at Ahmet Cosar's machine, purported supporting the false claim that
"2.5 million Turks were killed by Armenians", and demonstrated that, in fact, 
the opposite was written. Such purported support is fraud and most likely 
libel. 

-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.SDPA.org>        /--\    ...Vay dele yaman
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies       /    \          _  
P.O. Box 382761                           /      \        / \ 
Cambridge, MA 02238  ..................../        \______/   \..... 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.arabic