From: urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael P Urban)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: Estis: Software, Teletext, Telesoftware
Date: 15 Dec 1992 13:24:07 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Your message dated: Mon, 14 Dec 92 21:40:27 PST

> vakero [bovgardisto].  Vere la retligoj estas strangaj.  C^ar 
> mi povas legi kaj s.c.e. kaj ESPER-L mi observis la c^i-suban 
> desegnon :
> 
>                        retpos^to
>                            |
>                            |
>                            V
> gateway@UTEXAS <-- esperanto@rand.org  -->  ESPER-L
>        |                   ^
>        | [plejofte]        |
>        V                   |
>      s.c.e. <-- pos^to     |
>        |                   |
>        | [malofte]         |
>        V                   |
> gateway@UTEXAS  ---------->|
> 
> 
> 
> La malofta retligo
> 
>     s.c.e.  -->  gateway@UTEXAS  -->  esperanto@rand.org
> 
> foje (((re)re)re)sendas grupon de mesag^oj post semajno(j) !
> 

OK, one more time.	Bone, denove.
Three months ago,       Antaux tri monatoj,
this was the picture:   la bildo estis jena:

   e-posxto -> esperanto@rand.org    -------> listanoj (inkluzive de ESPER-L)
        ^             |
        |             v
        |      post-esperanto@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
        |             |
        |             v
        |      soc.culture.esperanto (USENET)  <---- artikoloj el USENET
	|	      |
        |             v
	------<	usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu


(Oh well, only in English; I do not want to write this twice)

Two or three months ago, the sysadmin at Berkeley turned off the
post-esperanto forwarding to the USENET group.  This was done entirely
without warning, and probably in complete ignorance of the reasons for
the original setup.  The forwarding FROM Usenet TO the mailing list
(usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu) continues to function!

Last week, I tried to use soc-culture-esperanto@cs.utexas.edu in the
mailing list to forward e-mail messages to the newsgroup.  This had
two problems:
	1) The Utexas gateway insists on replacing From: lines with
	   its own address, producing results like

               From: gateway@cs.utexas.edu  (Michael P Urban)

        2) Whatever filtering or marking the usenet->mailinglist software
	   at Berkeley was using to avoid forwarding articles that ORIGINATED
	   in the mailing list BACK TO the mailing list fails when such
           articles pass through the Utexas gateway.  The result is that
	   every message that was emailed to the list was received
	   twice by people on the list (and I received a rejection for
	   everyone one of these articles from the gateway, which, fortunately
	   refused the duplicate article).  Because I am sending this
	   message to the gateway and to the mailing list, listanoj will
	   probably see it twice too...

For this reason, I have once again stopped forwarding from the mailing
list to the newsgroup.  People who do not mind having their From:
address mangled can mail to soc-culture-esperanto@cs.utexas.edu, and
the message will go to the newsgroup and eventually back to the
mailing list (possibly in the Esperanto sense of `eventuale').


REPEATED REQUESTS FOR HELP FROM BERKELEY AND FROM THE PERSON WHO
ORIGINALLY SET UP THE SOFTWARE AT BERKELEY (ERIK FAIR) HAVE GONE
UNANSWERED.  I AM _VERY_ ANNOYED!

In theory, if SOMEONE would send me information on just how the
newsgroup->list software at Berkeley does its job, I could establish
my own software to forward messages to the newsgroup in a way that
could avoid the problems with Utexas.  

Also, if someone will send me a good `digestifier', I might try to
reduce traffic for listanoj at places like Compu$erve, who get charged
according to mail volume.


Finally, USENET periodically exhibits a behavior whereby some random
network site disgorges a number of old articles, and -- since the
articles have been forgotten by other USENET sites -- the articles are
forwarded around the net.  Recently several three-week-old articles have
been sent to Berkeley (and hence to the mailing list) in this way.
There does not seem to be much that can be done about this, except for
someone who can trace the articles back from Berkeley to try to find
the offending site.


	Mike Urban
	esperanto-request@rand.org