HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:37:11 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1992Dec17.231459.24730@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>I meant that it appears that the rest of the net won't even let me have 

Think about it, Dave.  Even if your assertions were true, there
would be extremely good reasons not to run a revote -- namely,
the fact that if your assertions were true, *every* vote ever
run would be subject to a revote.  This would, I think, be a bad
thing, and would do more harm than good in terms of resources
and time used.  Therefore, if you have any concern for the good 
of Usenet (as opposed to your own hobbyhorse) you ought to be
calling for improved procedures and not spending all this time
worrying about revotes that would set harmful precedent.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24077 alt.folklore.computers:17791
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: VOTE THIS PUPPY DOWN (Re: CFV: comp.society.folklore unmoderation)
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:25:20 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: negligable

I voted "NO" yesterday and got an autoresponse before the end of the day.
I would suggest that the auto-reply couldn't find the path to the people
who didn't get their response.  Perhaps a "vote ACK" posting is in order
so that the people can check & revote if necessary?



		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"There are no problems, only opportunities!"
"What we have here is an insurmountable opportunity..."
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native.american
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:46:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.032653.4866@raven.alaska.edu> floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) writes:

>(I would love to see the day
>when there is enough traffic to create a group
>soc.culture.native.alaskan!  Or perhaps s.c.native.yup'ik and
>s.c.native.inupiaq some day too.)

The issue is whether soc.culture.native.alaskan would have more in
common with soc.culture.alaskan or soc.culture.native.  (True,
soc.culture.alaskan doesn't exist, but alt.culture.alaskan does, and I
think my point holds.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native.american
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:11:05 GMT

floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) writes:

>Mike seems opposed to discussing as part of the vote that choosing a
>name also somewhat restricts the charter.  I would like to see a
>division that can accommodate most of all the NativeNet gateway, which
>means it would be best to split into two groups, one for discussion
>and one for informational posts.  s.c.*.d and s.c.*.misc seem to be
>the best choices?

Let's try to get one group up and running, then check and see how the
posts are distributed along general topic lines, before we start splitting
into subgroups, please.
--
Michael D. Adams       (aka StarOwl)	| Of all sexual aberrations, chastity
StarOwl@uiuc.edu       (NeXT mail OK)	| is the strangest. -- Anatole France
anon.46@pax.tpa.com.au (anonymously)	|------------------------------------
an692@anon.penet.fi    (anonymously)	| NBCS: B1f+t-w+g+k++s+me+h-qv	     
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nareid@due.unit.no (Helge Nareid)
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 10:39:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.020406.7278@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
|> In article <1gjc0uINN2qa@news.UU.NET> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:
|> >I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
|> >This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
|> >and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other basic 
|> >US Constitutional topics.
|> 
|> I'm all for it, if it keeps the loonies in one place.
|> -- 
|> ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
|> standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
|> the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637

And put it in the us.* hierarchy, so those of us outside the U.S. won't
be bothered.

- Helge Nareid
Xref: sparky news.groups:24561 alt.native:1459
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native.american
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:00:50 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl) writes:

>floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) writes:

>>Mike seems opposed to discussing as part of the vote that choosing a
>>name also somewhat restricts the charter.  I would like to see a
>>division that can accommodate most of all the NativeNet gateway, which
>>means it would be best to split into two groups, one for discussion
>>and one for informational posts.  s.c.*.d and s.c.*.misc seem to be
>>the best choices?

>Let's try to get one group up and running, then check and see how the
>posts are distributed along general topic lines, before we start splitting
>into subgroups, please.

    Or before we even think about gatewaying the group to a mailing
list, or set of mailing lists. And if we do split into subgroups, lets
make sure to not use the *.d suffix. It has fallen out of use in UseNet
over the last few years, thankfully. That is what .misc and .info are
for, these days.

--
-Brian V. Hughes
	     "If you could care less, then why don't you?"
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:53:28 GMT
	<1992Dec9.231000.28517@daimi.aau.dk>
	<1992Dec10.223550.11752@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<1g8kl9INNj4a@morrow.stanford.edu>
	<1992Dec12.002031.7215@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
Organization: One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.10 Rev. Nov 25 1992
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <1992Dec12.002031.7215@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
	(Dave Hayes) writes:


>And this business of asking for established proof, failing to
>answer one's opponent's calls for proof after this asking, and
>implying that someone is a scoundrel is usually used by people who
>want to take unfair control of things. Are you one of those?

	And in another post writes:
 
>We have provided evidence. The subject line was misleading (CFV: 
>rec.music.makers.* reorganization) and the vote topic was far enough
>down in the body of the CFV (greater than 21 lines) that it was probably 
>missed by those who have 24 line screens (a sizable percentage). 

	But Dave, until you answer the proof already presented, that a
separate posting by one of the rec.synth readers with a clear
unambuiguos subject line was posted to, and even replied to by another
reader, how do you expect anyone to accept your evidence? Does this
evidence have to be reposted daily for you so you can't ignore it's
inconvenient existance? Or are you hoping if you ignore it long ebnough,
it will just be conveiently forgotten. Until you answer existing proof
that your arguments are based on misleading evidence, why should anyone
bother debating with you?

	All you've done so far is ignore anything that doesn't fit your
case, and repeat the same, already disproven "short comings".

-- 

 "If Rush fans were braindead, why are there so   Bruce Bufalini
 many people posting to alt.music.rush?"              PSU
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:01:10 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>>Right. If this is not important, then why are you raising such a stink?
>>Because it _isn't_ important. (Figure that one out.)
>Dave, you've managed to completely confuse me. 

It's not like it wasn't hard to do.

>If it's not important, why bother?

I told you. Figure it out. (I don't think I could explain it to you without
you taking it the wrong way...and if you get it yourself you'll GET it)

>>You can't possibly think that my ego is getting a boost by taking on all you
>>flamebait mentality types at once...and losing?
>I've long since learned not to try to guess at people's motives for apparently
>irrational actions.

Good. You're learning. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

The original purpose of cultivating restraint is so that eventually...
                                        one will not need to have restraint.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24382 news.admin.misc:753
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Date: 15 Dec 1992 16:59:56 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec12155241@mother.intellection.com>
	<14DEC199210383243@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: bschlesinger@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov's message of Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:38:00 GMT

In article <14DEC199210383243@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov> bschlesinger@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Barry Schlesinger) writes:

   A large potential audience may exist for groups that do not exist as 
   mailing lists.  Users with limited disk space may not wish to 
   subscribe to a mailing list that has a large number of daily messages 
   that may use up space needed by the user for other purposes.  And it 
   may not be the most effective use of disk space.  Consider the amount 
   of disk space that might be taken up by duplicate messages on 
   astronomy on machines at gsfc.nasa.gov, stsci.edu, noao.edu, and 
   nrao.edu.  User convenience is not limited to the question of whether 
   the information is received, but also how.  And the costs of 
   distribution involves stress on resources of different kinds.

A technical solution would be to gateway the mailing-list into a
local newsgroup, for those sites with more than a few readers (and
competent newsadmins).
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.groups,talk.politics.misc,soc.motss
From: allan@hico2.westmark.com (Allan Kugel)
Subject: Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss
Summary: possible distribution problem
Followup-To: news.groups,talk.politics.misc,soc.motss
Reply-To: allan@hico2.westmark.com
Organization: High Country Software
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:12:09 GMT

I wrote:

: Based on the tremendous amount of traffic in talk.politics.misc
: AND many other groups, [which started with one way-too-widely
: crossposted article following the november elections],
: I'd like to suggest the creation of one or more of the following groups:

:  soc.motss.politics
:  talk.politics.motss
:  alt.activism.motss
:   
According to some e-mail replys, a group talk.politics.homosexuality exists.
However, having checked hico2's active and newsgroup files, that group
does not exist HERE.

But that's not the end of it.  None of the recently arrived postings
was crossposted to that group.  Was the group created recently?
Because hico2 accepts a limited newsfeed, it's possible that
"well-newsgrouped" postings never arrived here, while poorly-newsgrouped
articles arrived in droves.

Even so, I suspect that talk.politics.homosexuality
has distribution problems.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:42:29 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Dec14.135726.8989@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>This is a Dave Hayes tactic: refer to your mailbox...never mind that it's
>>completely unverifiable as a source of data for an argument.
>Hey, I didn't originate this one.

Maybe not, but you've elevated it to a new art form.

>>I'm a nice guy, on the scale of the net.
>That's not saying much.

Maybe not. I'm even willing to admit that my being a nice guy on the scale of
the net says something about the net.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.baltic/balticum 
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:51:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.232028.28039@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se 
(Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews) writes:
>>sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>>>Of course, soc.culture.baltics could be an alternative.
>>
>>Baltic versus Baltics makes no difference to me.  Existing soc.culture
>>groups seem to be about evenly split between adjectives and nouns, so
>>s.c.baltic and s.c.baltics both seem to fit in.  But we must decide and
>>be clear about it -- we shouldn't end up with a fiasco such as s.c.india
>>versus s.c.indian.

For me, there is a huge difference between soc.culture.baltics and
soc.culture.baltic, because there is neither any "Baltic society"
nor "Baltic culture". This reproduces the biases that the other nations
have about Balticum, sometimes even Swedes think that there exists
some kind of uniform Baltic language (Latvian and Lithuanian are Baltic 
languages, Estonian and Finnish Baltic Finnish languages).

Anyhow, I would not like to make the creation of the newsgroup
more difficult. If people find the Latin word Balticum
too strange, I guess that I have to support the compromise
soc.culture.baltics.

with best regards
A Baltic Finn
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: soc.culture.native
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:30:04 GMT

In article <Bz9BEE.3pw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> StarOwl@uiuc.edu writes:

> ...some of us would like to see a soc.culture group for Native
> Americans created someday, particularly since alt.native isn't carried
> at a few major net.sites.  UIUC picked up alt.native only very recently,
> for example.
> 
> IMO, soc.culture.native[.american] has a better shot at being passed than
> soc.culture.american.indian.

There is also a proposal on the electronic floor at the moment to call the
new newsgroup simply "soc.culture.native" (or "soc.culture.indigenous" or
"soc.culture.aboriginal").  Why need the focus be exclusively on the origi-
nal peoples of the Americas?  There is at present no mainstream newsgroup
which provides the unifying effect that I tend to feel one of those names
could provide.  It is surely possible to later create a newsgroup to deal
in a more focussed fashion on the Native peoples of the Americas if one is
desired.  It could be called "soc.culture.native.american" or "soc.culture.
indigenous.american" or "soc.culture.aboriginal.american."

No one has yet offered any compelling explanation as to why we need to
limit the discussion to subjects pertaining to the first inhabitants of
the Americas, who do not necessarily have as more in common with one another
than do any of those peoples and one from some other part of the world,
except as derives from contact with one another or sharing a somewhat
similar terrain.

Can anyone help me understand why this new newsgroup has to restrict itself
to American Indians (a name most aboriginal people of the continental U.S.
seem to accept) and the Native peoples of other regions of the Americas?

Thanks.

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Message to Joel and Jay
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:37:45 GMT

In article <8127@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.214944.5482@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>>My apologies.  I received the email below from Jay Maynard after politely
>>asking him to stop baiting Dave Hayes and perpetuating the flamewar,
>
>...and then, after replying to my polite reaponse, sending me a flame...
>
>>and thought Jay's response to my request (shown below) sufficiently idiotic
>>and stupid that hey, why be polite back? 
>
>...in standard Joel Furr "let's flame anything that moves" fashion...

Joel, Jay, why don't you two just step outside and settle this between
the two of you?  Your chest beating and posturing are nowhere near as
amusing as Dave's efforts . . .

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native-america
Date: 14 Dec 92 01:06:40 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

In article <gs_rx#n@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>I never have figured out why some American Indians seem to be so ashamed
>of their breed that they want to try to change their name to somehing
>politically correct but completely meaningless.  What is wrong with
>soc.culture.american.indian?

John, nothing is wrong with American Indian.

But most everyone has expressed an interest in discussing all of
the various native cultures in either the world, or in the
America's.  Even for the more narrow definition of just Native
American, you surely would not suggest that Hawaiian, Aleut,
Yup'ik, or Inupiaq cultures are Indian, would you?

Floyd
-- 
floyd@ims.alaska.edu        A guest on the Institute of Marine Science computer
Salcha, Alaska              system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:55:19 GMT
Reply-To: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nareid@due.unit.no (Helge Nareid) says:

>In article <1992Dec15.020406.7278@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>|> In article <1gjc0uINN2qa@news.UU.NET> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:
>|> >I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
>|> >This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
>|> >and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other basic 
>|> >US Constitutional topics.
>|> 
>|> I'm all for it, if it keeps the loonies in one place.
>|> -- 
>|> ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
>|> standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
>|> the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
>
Yes...the loonies *are* already in one place...they're going to law school.
 
>And put it in the us.* hierarchy, so those of us outside the U.S. won't
>be bothered.
>
>- Helge Nareid
>
Heaven forbid you should be exposed to ideas you don't agree with.

-- 
******************************************************************************
The opinions expressed by the author are insightful, intelligent and very
carefully thought out.  It is therefore unlikely that they are shared by the
University of Iowa or Case Western Reserve University.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24746 alt.folklore.computers:18167
From: oea@usit.uio.no (Odd Einar Aurbakken)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:58:00 GMT
Organization: dc hackers Inc.

In article <2sc3VB1w165w@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz>, system@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz (Wayne McDougall) writes:
> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
> 
> > My thanks to the 729-odd people who said NO and saved alt.folklore.computers.
> 
> Contrary to popular belief, I'm not that odd (except for crop circles).

True, I am the only genuine(ly?) Odd on the list!

-- 
Odd Einar
16i4AP55P53P54P20P41P4EP4FP54P48P45P52P20P44P43P20P48P41P43P4BP45P52P2CPq
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:42:18 GMT

news@wolves.Durham.NC.US (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
>>If people can't ignore someone they call a bozo, then that's their problem.
>Very strange to hear this from you.  Why, just around the corner in that
>other conversation, you claim that ignoring someone (by placing them
>into a kill file) is ELITISM!

Regardless of whether or not I claimed that (I didn't):

-I personally would never put a "person" into a kill file. I _would_ put a
subject in a kill file, except that I use a newsreader that puts all
the threads into a consolidated menu...which allows me physical
control over whether I get into a subject.

-You can, believe it or not, read an article and NOT have to respond 
to it. You can even stop reading it. 

Whether that is elitism or not is the call of the person who is interpreting
the action. 

>Which way is it Dave?

Surely not the black and white you perceive it to be. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

  Counterfeiters exist because there is such a thing as real money.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24127 alt.folklore.computers:17805
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: VOTE ACK: comp.society.folklore unmoderation
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:51:46 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <Bz0zwn.8tu@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
 > Followups to news.groups since I doubt the folklore people need any
 > more cross-posted flamewars.
 > 
Re-cross-posted to alt.folklore.computers.  There is just now a discussion
on about famous flame wars.  Why not have the audience a life one instead?

dik
(tongue firmly in cheek, and no, I do not vote on flame wars)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl