HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gupta_sn@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sandeep N Gupta)
Subject: Phone company info wanted...
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:59:15 GMT

Hi netters,

	I am new here and wanted some info on long-distance phone companies.
I have taken AT&T Reach out World scheme which offers a rate of $1.56 to
India in the evenings and on weekends. Recently someone had mentioned something
about india calls at the rate of $1.25 or so. could someone elaborate?
also i am aware that MCI has a special family calling scheme under which the
number you call most often gets very cheap rates. But since i stay with two
other students, I fail to understand how to make use of the scheme.
Could you please enlighten me . 

You may reply on the net or use my email address :
       gupta_sn@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

Thanks in advance,

-Sandeep Gupta.
From: sgs1679@usl.edu (Sudhindranath Sira G)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Secularism.
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:09:56 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

In article <gate.wVooVB1w165w@sytex.com>, dante@sytex.com (Vikram David) writes:
>
> Why are you so against SECULARISM?
> SECULARISM: 1. secular spirit or tendency, EXP. a system of political or
> social philosopy that rejects all forms of religious faith.  2. the view
> that public education and other matters of civil policy should be
> conducted without the introduction of a religious element.
>

I can understand why you are baffled. It's because you looked-up
a *dictionary* to find the meaning of the word. If you start looking
at the Government's definition of the term, you will probably
begin to understand what the problem is all about.

> Now, what's wrong with that?  Would you support a THEOCRACY more?
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nothing wrong with that. Except that there is something terribly
wrong with the Government's definition of secularism...

>

Regards,

--Sudhi.

--
********************   Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath.   **********************
email : sudhi@usl.edu,         Address : USL PO Box 41688,
        sgs@ucs.usl.edu                  Lafayette, LA 70504-1688. USA.
****************************************************************************
From: mani@aix.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Hinduism and Idol Worship....
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:43:49 GMT
Reply-To: mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: aix.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu's message of 19 Dec 92 13:36:51 GMT

In article <19382.2b332573@ecs.umass.edu> vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu writes:

	   "After the rituals, the symbol has no meaning.  Even Hinduism
   doesn't promote the idol worship. We pray the almighty evoked in that
   idol. Maybe, our people didn't want others to know the meaning of the
   slogas.  That's why still they want to stick to the 'devine language',
   Sanskrit. Our guys (brahmins) do a lot of forbidden things inside the
   temples.  If they believe  in all rituals, they are sure that almight
   is not there.  If they don't beleive in what they do, if they perform
   all those just for living, they don't care....", says my friend.

This is definitely not true for South Indian temple ritual.  I
will write with reference to the tradition that I am more
familiar with, i.e., the Srivaishnava tradition, that is in
charge of Srirangam, Tirupati, etc.; I believe the same
principles also apply to the major Shiva temples of the South.

The image in the temple is considered an "archa-avatara", an
incarnation in the form of an image; in other words, there is a
transsubstantiation of the image into the Lord himself.
Therefore, Sri Ranganatha Perumal in Srirangam is in essence
indistinguishable from the God in our hearts and Narayana in
Vaikuntha.  In other words, even after the rituals, the symbol
has very great meaning, because he is the Lord himself.  To
illustrate by example, during the invasion of Srirangam by
Malik Kafur in the 14th century, the Srivaishnava leader Pillai
Lokacharya carried the image of Lord Ranganatha from Srirangam
with him as he fled the town to prevent its destruction by the
iconoclastic invaders.  The image itself has special meaning to
its devotees.

The Salagrama stone is also "inherently" Vishnu; what may or
may not have everlasting meaning are the calendar-type images
that we have in our houses.

To address another point, the "divine language" is adhered to
precisely because it is considered a "divine language".  This
certainly may be considered irrational in today's times, but
even today, major cities in India have discourses where the
meanings of traditional ceremonies and rituals are explained in
the common tongue.  And while there are certainly many corrupt
temple priests, I wouldn't want to paint all of them with the
same brush.

Finally, let us not forget that the theory and practice of
temple worship was itself originally an anti-establishment and
non-Vedic (but perhaps not anti-Vedic) movement.  I don't think
it's one big conspiracy.

Peace,
Mani
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be - ashamed
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:05:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.210808.27358@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>
>You ought to feel ashamed about it because you as a Hindu failed to
>do anything to prevent such events from happening. You ought to
>be ashamed because you disown reposibility to stand up for a fellow
>Hindu in trouble elsewhere outside India. You ought to be ashamed for not
>doing anything to prevent such incidences from occuring against Hindus
>in future.
>


Come on, Alok! Am I my brother's keeper?? 


Rakesh Patel

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40917 soc.culture.pakistan:18232
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:21:37 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Deb Chattergy writes:

> The Muslims are a pampered minority. They get what they want. In fact many
> Muslims use the Indian Constitution as a joke. The case of Shahbano, that was
> a slap in the face of Indian judiciary, gladly accepted by Rajiv Gandhi has
> brought home shame and made Hindus inwardly furious. 

	yes. Uniform Civil Code is what we must be fighting for (Not some
	temple/mosque). Muslims *have* been a pampered minority mainly
	because of their substantial size and clout but it's time we
	realized that religion cannot be a discriminatory criterion.
	Shahbano was a stinging slap. People like Shahabuddin who now
	cry hoarse over Babri were the ones who subverted the rule of the
	land at that time (aided in good measure, of course, by the likes
	of RG)

> built by a tyrant - Babar (suppossedly !!!!!!), was torn down by Hindus, the
> GOP reacted (they say people did it ?), by torching children and hapless Hindu
> women. Look at the cruelty ! Look at how Muslims assert their sentimental

	won't agree here. In the frenzy of revenge, a Hindu would be as
	bad as a Muslim and the regular riots show this (even '47). As I'd
	said, if Pak had razed a temple *first*, Shiv Sena would have 
	butchered the Bombay Muslims... Religion is a very powerful drug.


> value ! Look who condemns sati, caste system, etc. and etc. Who are these
> people ? They are successors of Aurangzeb, who was a tyrant too ! How can we
> make peace with such people ? 

	The peace initiatives have to come from all sides. many instances of
	Hindu kings who were tyrants. Muslims *must* realize that while
	they might think Islam and Quran are great, not everyone *has* to
	believe in that and you can't go on issuing Fatwas in a self-righteous
	manner. Khomeini, the supposed guardian of Islam (which muslims say 
	does'nt	preach hatred)... 


> learning about torching (roasted alive) the hapless children and women, we
> must go back on our apologies. Because, just see my friends, after we
> apologized, these rascals torched the minority. Their extreme barbarism is
> what makes any Hindu extremely grief stricken. However, it is these people who

	grief stricken, yes. Not just the Hindus. everyone. But the
	same would have been done by the Hindus if the positions had been
	reversed. This is NOT a justification for the killings but nor can
	it be viewed in isolation. Both the parties were guilty and the
	victims, as always, were the innocents...


> letters to GOI, to reform the Constitution. The demands must be:
>
> (1) ONE single set of civic laws governing every Indian. Religious 
>     discrimination - turned into a political advantage, *MUST* stop.

	Such a stipulation, even if incorporated in the constitution, will
	not be very effective unless the law machinery is reinforced. That,
	alas, is a tough ball game. But yes, the first step *is* this.

	FFT
From: crick@tsp.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Need Secularism
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:15:25 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Dec13.214154.28013@ryn.mro4.dec.com> verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>
>I am a so called Hindu fundamentalist according to many (this is a scary word
>for most, I am not a hypocrat). 

A religious fundamentalist is not scary, because they understand tolerance.
Someone like yourself on the other hand, a self-righteous, fanatical, militant
warrior in the holy war, is quite scary.  BTW is there a Hindu equivalent of
Jihad?  That is exactly what you and your kind espouse.

>If they cannot do it, I want our secular Govt. to
>attack Pakistan and Bangladesh and then teach them a lesson of secularism.

And just how will starting a war with Pakistan, Bangladesh, and every other
Islamic nation teach anyone a lesson in secularism.  How could narrow-minded
fools like you ever teach a lesson if you have not the aptitude to learn one.

>Hindus know lot more about secularism than Muslim zealots and WORMS.
>
Preaching against the psychological implications of cow-killing is an
excellent example of your knowledge of secularism.

>Remember tolerance is not cowardice. Renunciation is not weakness. We
>Hindus cannot be fooled any more by these WORMS.
>
>-- Virendra Vernma

Ed
From: akumar@pollux.usc.edu (Anant Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: ********* Apology ******** ( a personal reply to my post)
Date: 11 Dec 92 03:12:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: pollux.1gap76INNmv4
Reply-To: anantk@usc.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

you write:

>>      .... does that mean that you actually meant everything you said
>>      in that post! not posting what you are thinking doesn't help if
>>      your thoughts reek of hatred!

If he probably did'nt mean it he would'nt have posted it would he ?

But the question is to whom the article was aimed not you, so what are you moani
ng
about?


Ayaz.

	the above message was sent to me by Ayaz (maya@dcs.ed.ac.uk) who has
	I believe, been posting under another alias too!

	Ayaz, I would appreciate if all such messages were directed to the
	net and not to my personal mailbox.

	The reason I asked that question was that the other person (who is
	not you, so what are you moaning about!) was rather apologetic
	about sending a rather inflammatory post. But he did not sound a
	bit sorry about being inflammatory at all!

	I wish people would be good and not just not show their badness!

	-anant
From: venky@sybase.com (Venkataramann R)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Multiple H1 Expedition Anyone ?
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:44:58 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.


I am planning to get my Multiple-H1 from Juarez, Mexico in the 
weeks to come. If anybody in the Bay Area is planning the same
and can make use of some company, let me know.

( I am located in Emeryville, CA )

Venky

Email : venky@sybase.com
Phone : (510) 596 8435
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: mgupta@eng.clemson.edu (Manu_Gupta)
Subject: Re: RE SOC.CULTURE.PUNJAB
Reply-To: mgupta@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:25:47 GMT


Go guys, go.

Manu.
From: dante@sytex.com (Vikram David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: I am new here!!!!!!!!!   
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:19:59 EST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

MC>Path: sytex!uunet!noc.near.net!lynx!mchally
  >From: mchally@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (mammen chally)
  >Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
  >Subject: I am new here!!!!!!!!!
  >Keywords: Help
  >Message-ID: <1992Dec10.223443.23359@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>
  >Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 22:34:43 GMT
  >Organization: Northeastern University
  >Lines: 17

MC>Hi Everybody,

MC>I hope somebody can send me the details about how to access this a
  >little more powerfully and what all I can do in this.

MC>I hope evrybody's family back home is fine. Mine is.

MC>To all IIT'ians who read this. Hi. I wonder how many of you remmeber
  >me??

MC>Any body doing business. Let me know if you have any info about
  >summer employment. We could remain in touch.

MC>Mammen

Hello!  I just thought I'd repy because I'm quite new here too.

Hey, and what does IIT stand for?
---
 * OLX 2.2 * Ever stop to think and forget to start again?
From: Raj.Subramani@newcastle.ac.uk (D. Subramani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Let us retake and reform Hinduism
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:42:39 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

gowda@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (M.V.Rajeev Gowda) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>In the immortal words of Kabir:

>Moko kahaan dhoonde re bandhey, main to tere paas mein
>Na main deval, na main masjid, na Kaabe Kailaas mein
>Nahi koi kriya karm mein, na yog bairaag mein
>Sodhi hoi to turtai milhon, pal bhar ki talaas mein
>Kahath Kabir, suno bhai Sadho, sab saanson ke saans mein

>Loose translation:

>Where are you looking for me my friends, I am in your midst
>Not in a temple, not in a masjid, nor at the Kaaba or in Kailaas
>Not in worldly deeds, nor yoga, nor ascetic renunciation
>If you're ready, you can join me, if you search for a moment
>Listen to Kabir, I am within your every breath, in your very heart

>******************
>M. V. Rajeev Gowda


        ,
   touche  !!!.


   I just wish our country had more sensible guys like you.


-raj.subramani@newcastle.ac.uk
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Double standards of Islamic countries
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:09:18 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec15.075031.4055@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> cs707ab@maccs.mcmaster.ca (Aftab) writes:
:
:Islamic countries .... have there ever been any? are there ever gonna be
:any?  guess not! Countries are made of people .... and if the people

Loosing your patience?

Abhi to ibtedaa-e-ishq hai rota hai kiya?
Aage Aage dekhiye hota hai kiya!

:believe in Islam ... they otta be Islamic countries. I've been hearing this
:argument ("these are not Islamic countries") for the last year or so every
:time something bad is said about an *Islamic* country. And yet when a 
:western country acts against the well-being of one of these countries ... it
:is a move against Islam!

You heard wrong! It could have moved against Muslims in the Muslim
countries, but could have never moved Islam. Islam was never in
danger and will never be. 

Indeed the only DEEN in front of Allah is Islam!
From: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Idols RE: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Date: 20 Dec 1992 02:07:35 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu

>
> Arindam, you have again started to patronize your Bahai faith and taking
> recourse to (p)secularism. Why there should be a Sharia law for Muslims and
> why these noble gentlemen can practise their religion free-wheeling on the
> social fabric of India - at any speed they want ? Is this written in the
> Qur'an - to do what they can anywhere anytime ? Or are you again up to your
> old tricks ?
>
>    - deb chatterjee
>   (a good samaritan)
As I said, I do not think you can FORCE anybody to change their ideals--good
or bad. I did not say that I want "Dar-ul-Islams" to be created; on the other
hand I want all boundaries to cease.

It's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks (-:
Know that nothing will benifit   thee
in this life
save supplication and invocation
unto God.
service in His vineyard,
and, with a heart full of love,
to be in constant servitude unto Him.
Love
Arindam

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:43:55 GMT

In article <1gtdttINN6ca@phakt.usc.edu> fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>
>	And why should anyone take Kena Upanishada at face value? 

I didn't ask you to.

>>I am still waiting for "proof" that there's light when the sun's up.
>>Since I am rather certain that there can be no such proof, I am justified
>>in assuming that hardened amateur philosophers are blind to the
>>light of the inner sun.
>>-Akash
>
>	ask your friend (preferably Worma :) to hold a giant convex lens
>	and tell me if you're impervious when your clothes catch fire.

Don't have no friends, just this here net. Don't wear no clothes.
Don't smell no proof. Be scientific.

Definitely sense violence here, O Vishwamitraesque memoriser of sci.physics
FAQ.

-Akash
From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Calcutta news (some more)
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:51:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: roundup.1ganuqINNi0e
Distribution: world
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu

My brother had also called Calcutta after I did.

The news is as follows:

A group of (muslim?) miscreants attacked the Lakshminarayan temple
under construction in Park Circus and also the Kali Temple in 
Ballygunge. The retaliation was that a mosque in Park Circus was
damaged. Result was that 7 people were killed in police firing.

This was over 48 hours ago, but my father didn't get the news
until this morning.

The Boston Globe today reports that in Calcutta, 40 people were
killed in clashes between adjacent Hindu and Muslim slums in
Bibi Bagan (their story was titled: Violence Mars Peacable Calcutta:
40 killed). It was almost an entire page long.

The Globe also reported that the MIT Indian and Pakistani students 
association held a silent vigil to protest the goings-on in India 
which turned out to be not-so-silent when a person whom by brother
describes as MIT's own professional protester began blaring out some
stuff in a loudspeaker which the Globe reporter mistook for sectarian
infighting between campus Hindus and Muslims over Ayodhya and reported
as a sidebar in the article on India.

-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these views, I'd be most surprised.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: balraj@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: EMAIL sources
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:30:47 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

To all Newsreaders,
I am interested in finding an EMAIL source in central or North Kerala.

I am unable to get in touch with my relatives as to the current situation
there and Am really apprehensive as to the situation there.

Any help in this matter is really appreciated.

Balu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: 00160910@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Personal Thoughts
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:17:12 GMT

Dear Fellow Indians:
I have been reading the postings in this news group and I finally feel
obliged to contribute.
I  was in shock after seeing what happened to the Babri Masjid. Those
responsible surely did not believe that their actions were going to lead
them to paradise. Nor those who rioted afterwards. I doubt that there is
any religion that would condone such actions.
For those Muslims who were responsible for the "rerisals" that followed
can be sure that God has promised punishment for them. You are not
doing your religion a favour. God or his religion do not need your
"protection". I doubt if any of you prayed for God to give you guidance
on your course of action before you went into that blind rage. This sort
of behaviour is totally against the teachings of Islam. I refer you to
the treatment that the Prophet accorded to those who had wronged against
him, even after they had been defeated by the Muslims.
A Muslim is forbidden to pray on the ground where worship of one other
than the one true GOD took place. So I sincerely doubt that a believing
Muslim would demolish a temple to build a mosque in its place
There has been a lot of talk about Arab response to the situation.
I take this to mean the response of Arab heads of state. To start with
their very existance is against the Islamic principals as Islam is
totally against monarchy. So their response should not be equated with
Muslim response. And their actions prove this day after day. The real
Muslims are those who leave their homes to help Muslims no matterwhat
their ethnic origin. Islam believes in brotherhood of all Muslims
regardless of their geographic location.
Finally I have two questions for my Hindu friends. Muslims had little
choice as to where they chose to live. Tomorrow if a political force
gets up and draws a line next to you and says that you have to pledge
allegiance to the rules that exist on your side even if they are in
conflict with your own ideals. Would that make sense? Surely you have
to be a Muslim before you can be an Indian.
Secondly, If I was promised that this is a case of just one mosque,
and would never happen again, I would say O.K. no point in fighting
over this mosque, there are plenty of other mosques we can pray in.
But I have a feeling that this will happen again and again and Babri
Masjid was merely a symptom of a trend that is raising its ugly head.
Would somebody who has any authority give me assurances to the contrary?
I therefore appeal to all fairminded Indians to look at this problem
with the intent of solving it and making sure that justice is served.
Whether we like it or not we will have to live together and such things
are only destructive whether you are a Muslim or a Hindu.
I am sorry if this sounds like a sermon but I had to get it off my chest.
May God give all of us the ability to think clearly.
--Tariq A. Alvi.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian