From: bobbitt@school.enet.dec.com (Jody Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: re: quakerism, Christianity, etc
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:28:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



>I am very sorry that I offended you by my angry replies to M.V.
>My concern is not with Mike, but many modern Quakers who have no
>faith in Christ, but have taken over the name of faithful Friends,
>which hurts me (and other Christians who are akin to early Friends),

I'm sorry you're hurt.  I consider myself a Unitarian Quaker, and a
christian (lowercase c, please), and my intent in finding my spirituality
is not to hurt anyone.  However, how that I've found it, someone's offense
is not going to induce me to change it....

>by conscience to leave Meetings and find homes elsewhere - for the same
>reason you give: they are not "Friendly." And the Meetings so often
>suffer without light and spirit of their presence of Christ.

The meetings I've been to feel suffused with light and spirit.  I don't
know whether Christ is present or not, but I feel a sense of unity in
humanity, wellbeing, inner faith and light, and bondedness in commitment to
the goodness in the world.  That feels like Christ to me.  

> I feel all who take the name of Friends should acknowledge Christ,
> because so many others who call themselves "Christians"  - are not.

I guess if you think Quakers must be Christian by your definition, then you
perhaps are bound to be disappointed in this day and age.  I am definitely
not YOUR brand of Christian, I am mine. 

>Why? Because the name of "Friends" was given by Jesus to his own
> intimate followers who were faithful in him, and Christian Quakers 
> deserve this name - but you do not. You take what does not belong
> to you. Don't you have any conscience about this? I know you refer to
> your religious philosophy (you endorse ideas of Hicks and others) - 
> but is this why you call you call yourself a "Friend?"  

Who are you to say who is deserving?  Who are you to say what does or does
not belong to Michael, or to me, or to anyone.  The spirituality of Christ
is available to everyone.  Many paths lead to the light, and they don't all
look or sound the same.  Yours is not the only one.  I have a remarkable
sense of conscience - it simply doesn't echo yours. 

>other good deeds and "Friendly" thoughts) - but because I have seen
>and heard for myself how Christ is ignored and abused in Meetings,
>and supplanted by some morally pretentious neo-Quakerish gnosticism.

I have never seen Christ either ignored or abused in meetings.  I haven't
heard Him mentioned often, but when light is present, I feel that is the
center of this religion.  Quakerism is, I have read, about the light or
"that-of-God" in everyone - how we all contain a shard of the divine.

I am sorry, again, for your pain, but I feel I must express my own ideas of
my faith as I see it, and my sense of rightness in calling myself a
Unitarian Quaker.

-Jody
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Jody Bobbitt			 | bobbitt@school.enet.dec.com
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Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker