From: marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:19:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com writes:

>In article <Jan.3.14.13.22.1993.5440@caip.rutgers.edu>, 
>marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>>>This newsgroup has got to be one of the greatest collections of garbage
>>>on the net.
>>
>>True ... I smelled the scent when the title of your article came up on
>>my screen.
>
>	It's the same title that was on your article - you fool.
>	

I agree but my Net News icludes in the title line:

  1. The title of the article.
  2. The name of the author.

And thank god my name is not Itzhak ...

>	Where do YOU think the Jewish historical claim originated? Maybe
>	you've got some secret document? Even those Jews who do not
>	accept the Bible as a holy book still accept it as part of their
>	heritage.

If the Jews do not accept their own bible as their holy book (obviously
they must thing that it is very week), then how do you expect the Moslems 
(or the world) to accept it as a historical document.

Which brings us to another question ... How long did it take between the
time the holy book was sent to earth and the time it was documented in
a book which is comparable to the books that are present now-a-days.
And what do we conclude about the credibility of the information and
historical documentation within.

>	Again read closely - ZIONIST DO HAVE AN HISTORICAL
>	CLAIM BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY WERE THE FIRST TO INHABIT THE
>	LAND. Abraham (father of the Moslems as well) purchased part of
>	the land from the original natives. And yes we did later conquer
>	the land from the Caananites and the other pagan nations that
>	inhabited the land before us.
>	
Are the Moslems pagans ?!!! ... Are the christians also pagans ??!!!

>>Allowing those 1-meter-beard-long people to teach us about the history
>>is not understandable nor credible.
>
>	Oops your anti-Semitism is showing again.

Insisting that I am anti-Semitic when I SAID several times that I am 
a Semite is really stupid and foolish on your part. You are very much
like the Zionist government who has been chewing the juice out of this
gum for 50 years and they think that the juice is still there.

>	What does
>	1-meter-beard-long people have to do with this discussion unless
>	you are referring to the Hamas leaders?

Not really ... I was referring to the Israeli-Hamas ... The Rabbis ...

>	Are you disputing the Bible's claim that the Jews were NOT the
>	first to inhabit the Land?  If so, then you're contradicting
>	yourself.

The government of Israel has always alluded the world by not mentioning
the fact that the Israelis (the Hebrew slaves) were not the first to be 
in Palestine. If you ask an average person who knows about israel and
the middle east you would notice that he knows that the Israelis were
in Palestine ORIGINALLY but you would rarely find someone who knows the
truth that there were people in Palestine even before the Hebrew slaves came.

>>Does you bible preaches its followers to:
>>
>>  1) Hunt down 10 year olds in the streets with machine guns.
>
>	No.

That is what the Israeli police are doing ...

>>  2) Continuous oppressing the other people living along side the Jews
>>     with fire and iron.
>
>	No.

That is what the Israeli police are doing ...

>>  3) allowing only people whose mother (not father or one's self) is
>>     Jewish to illegally immigrate to Palestine and deport the 
>>     righteous owners.
>
>	No.

That is what the Israeli government is doing ...
 	
>	These are all part of your BIG lie. Show me your Biblical sources
>	for these if you have any?

Biblical sources ... Is this a typo or what ... what did you mean by 
biblical sources. I am saying that the Israeli police is hunting down
10 year old principle-filled children fighting the ugly oppressor with
stones.

Please tell the Israeli police that these are children not moose.

>>And by the way please post from your bible the International borders
>>of EREST YETSRAEL as promised by your bible, so that every one can see
>>and judge for themselves.
>
> 	No doubt about it - the borders of the 'historical' Land of
> 	Israel extends from Wadi El-Arish in the south to the Euphrates
> 	in the North.  So what?

What do you mean "So what" ... That means that means that the Zionist
claim in not only in Palestine but also Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon
and parts of Saudi arabia.

Second, the Euphrates though it comes from the north but it seems logical
that you should say the Euphrates from the east (or north and east). Anyway
these international borders as sated explicitly in the bible (I doubt this
very much) do not seem to be conciseness because they did not also define the
borders from the west ?

P.S. You did not provide us with a biblical quote ... If you never read
the bible from which all your proofs and your rhetoric came from then it
is all-right. But please note that you have to let us know so that we will
take your posting and post them in the garbage where they really belong.

> 	We never claimed that we have an
> 	obligation to conquer all of the Land which historically is ours.

Not really ... You accepted the UN resolution in 1947 knowing that the arab
side would not accept such an unjust resolution, then you swallowed 
a lot more than what you agreed upon in 1947 in 1948 war. I am sure that
there were voices back in 1948 saying that "We will never swallow more than
what the we already swallowed" ... However the result turned out to be the
opposite.  Because in 1967 After the second white hearted claim was settled
for 20 years another white hearted claim saying that we will never claim
more than what we have just swallowed came about ... The Zionist ambitions
in the middle east go far beyond what is already present as demonstrated
by your big mouth. Your claim as well as criminals like Shamir, Beigen,
Golda-Maier do not stand credible and history proved that already.

> 	NO RABBI ADVOCATES (PRIVATELY OR PUBLICLY) THE CONQUEST OF THE
> 	ENTIRE LAND OF ISRAEL.

How the hell did you know what those 1-meter-beard-long Rabbis hide in
their hearts. Please stop posting such garbage.

>	Your people however DO claim that they have a religious
>	obligation to free all so-called Arab land from the foreigners.

Are you saying that germans, Ethyopians, and russians are not foreign
in the middle east ?!!!

>	22 states isn't enough for you - you need it all. What right do
>	you have to preach moderation to us?

Actually one large and powerful state is enough ... but several week
states can never be able to do anything.

>>Taking the bible to be the only source by which the "legality" of the
>>foundation of the illegal state of Israel is deducted is not only
>>very week but it is also untrue ... I am sure that most of the Zionists
>>on this net do not agree with you. The Zionist claim in Palestine had
>>always been historical and if you look into several of those heroic
>>documentaries about the creation of this illegal state you would 
>>know beyond any doubt that you do not know what you are talking about.
>
>	I never said that the Bible is the ONLY source for claiming
>	legality of the State of Israel. Maybe it's easier for you to
>	think that. I don't need to prove legality. We're here - like it
>	or not. 
>	

Ok let me post what you have said and explain the difference between the
words only and most ...

YOU WROTE:

   Whether you believe in it or not, the
   Bible is the most authoritative book on what the Jews' claim is their
   right to the Land of Israel. Before you put your foot in your mouth

It is hilarious that in that article which you wrote using your toes and 
tongue, that you repeatedly mentioned that the Zionist claim in Palestine was
related to the bible (how week). Then you jumped from your needle bed
and asked us to believe that the bible is not "the ONLY source for
claiming legality of the State of Israel". Well if it is not then for
the sake conciseness at least mention that other thing in your post
believe that this thing is as comparable in significance (or slightly
less) to the bible.

>	By the way, what in your opinion makes a state "legal"? A
>	declaration by a leader of a terrorist gang? 

No ... The people living there make it legal ... For example I would
consider an Israeli claim for a Jewish state in china to be illegal even
if the Israelis provided proofs that 3000 years ago, there were at least
one Jewish sailor who lost his way for 40 days in the indian ocean to
find himself in china.

>>>3) I'd like to know what Jewish source you've got that claims we are a
>>>   "race". I've heard Jews claim that we are a nation, culture, ethnic
>>>   group and even religion but only the anti-Semites call us a "race".
>>
>>Arabs are Semite ... They cannot be Anti-Semite.

>	English lesson:
>	
>	anti-Semite n. A person hostile toward Jews 
>	(The American Heritage Dictionary)
>	
>	What does your dictionary say????

Yow Stupid take this in your face ...

Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th Ed., Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press

/Semite/ <<"si:maIt>>, <<"sem->> n.[People] a member of any of the peoples
supposed to be descended from Shem, son of Noah (Gen. 10:21 ff.), including
esp. the Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, and Phoenicians{adj. omitted Mar 88}.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you satisfied ... Over and Over again ... I say that the arabs are semites
and that it is really foolish to use this term that was produced by the
Zionist GUM factories in europe and chew it over to the middle east where
everyone is a Semite.

>>Itzhak is telling us that it is a right and OBLIGATION for the police
>>to hunt down 10 year olds who are trying to get rid of the ugly 
>>oppressor. WELL ITZHAK does that mean that it was the right and
>>obligations of the chinese police to hunt down the people that gathered
>>in Tiniamin square in china ... or was it a right and OBLIGATION for the
>>communists to hunt down those CRIMINALS that gathered near the Kremlin
>>one year ago shouting DOWN WITH COMMUNISM ....

>	Did the "people that gathered in Tiniamin square in china" throw
>	rocks and fire bombs at passing CIVILIAN cars? How about "those
>	CRIMINALS that gathered near the Kremlin"?
>	
As for Tiniamin square ... I did see people throwing stones at the police
but for the communists ... though they were communists but they were also
humans and they did not hunt down the demonstrators with machine guns (at
least in that particular incident) ...

Nevertheless, Civilian uprising has always been a praised one. And
history again proves that.

>	So if the Jewish civilians rise up in mobs and start killing Arabs
>	you'll praise that too.
>	

Please correct the term Jewish civilians to Zionist foreigners so that I
would be able to post my reply.

>>>   I certainly would not like to live in a country where even 10-year
>>>   olds are given the freedom to stone and fire-bomb cars at will - would
>>>   you?????
>>>  
>>These 10 year olds are fighting for a righteous principle, a principle,
>>something you would never understand.

>	Destroying the Jewish State is indeed a righteous principle for
>	all anti-Semites.

Damned fool again ... those children are also Semites, you are again 
demonstrating stupidity publicly.

P.S: throw this gum away ...


>	If you think that a 10-year-old knows what a
>	righteous principle is or is not, then you obviously don't have
>	children of your own.  I feel sorry that these kids have cowardly
>	parents that are willing to endanger the lives of their own
>	children rather than fight themselves for their beliefs.

You are a damned liar ... How did you know that the parents of those
children ordered them to through stones ... All the circumstances leads
us to believe that even though they are only 10 year old but they have
a high principle that they are fighting for. From what I know, the parents
always tell there children to keep away for trouble and throwing stones
but due to the high spirit of these 10 year old children they disobey
their parents for the sake of the high principle they are living for.

>- Itzhak

--Marwan
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25109 talk.politics.soviet:10363 soc.culture.greek:12156 soc.culture.europe:11136 soc.history:10630 soc.culture.turkish:14051