HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:21:52 GMT


          ***---> Caution: Kakamal Excerpts Included. <---*** 

thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman)
>   "I feel that you are less than yourself and every ninth night you are as
>a she goat in heat among the rams of the field bearing the children of three
>headed ice thurs every ninth night thereafter."

Sounds like gender-bending copulation on ice-cold Thursday nights to me.  :-)
I read an article about this recently in the *Swedish `True' Enquirer*.
In a hetero scenario, the woman straps on a variation #18 rune-cake and 
goes to town, while the man recites Swedish pastry recipes in rhythm.
"I got rhythm, ungh, I got rune-cake, ungh, who could ask for anything more!" 
ungh...uhh...ohh...yes...I'm seeing Valhalla now...ahhhhhh...I'm toast...
          ...ouch...ouch...Honey, next time, use more butter...
            (What does she really do when she goes to town?)

                       (-:    Lighten Up!   :-)

    "When each bakes all hir bread for the other,
     there is no bread left for the next full-moon ritual.   
     Anything is better than spam.
     S/he is no friend, whose rune-cakes are always unbaked."
                                            ----Kakamal 124  >:-)

     "Ill tempered the hearth,
      which burns all bread.
      S/he cannot remember, as s/he should,
      how much wood to use."
                                            ----Kakamal 22  >:-)
Pass the Butter!

Thorfinn Einarsson
From: conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: definition of feminism
Summary: not man-hating
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:55:10 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <BvH1tJ.M2B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten) writes:
>
>
>Well, by this definition, Z. Budapest is not a feminist.  I wonder how she would

This is a very interesting piece of logic.  I said that feminism is not
man-hating.  I did not say that a person who was a feminist could not be
a man-hater, I said that it was simply *not* the same thing.

For example: you can be an equestrian.  You can be a stamp collector.  One
or the other or both or neither.


>like to be told that.  Coni, you are imposing *your* idea of feminism on all
>of feminism.

Oh, okay, right, let's just define feminism to include any kind of other
characteristic that "seems to go along with it".  So, let me see -- feminists
are "those who don't vote for George Bush"?  Uh, hmmm, feminists are
"those who are against abortion"?

Let's just say I don't like to attach so much baggage to the definition of
feminism.


>WenD made it very clear that sie was not referring to all of 
>feminism but to one extremist end of it.

I didn't debate what she was saying.  Yes, she said that ultra-feminism was
man-hating.  So -- hey, don't put *your* definition of feminism on *me*.  I
REPEAT:

	Feminism and man-hating are two different things.


>feminism but to one extremist end of it.  If you don't believe that there are
>extremist feminists, I can quote stories from my lesbian and bi women friends
>who have been attacked for associating with males.

Just *what* does this have to do with equating feminism with man-hating?  Are
you saying that all lesbians and all bi women are feminists?  Or they are all
man-hating?  Or what?


>who have been attacked for associating with males.  Also, there are certainly
>men who are man-haters, who accept the idea that men are the evil perpetrators
>of patriarchy.  There are lots of people who are self-destructive.

Please explain what any of this has to do with feminism.


Coni Britten
conib@peri.gvg.tek.com
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: thunderstorms
Date: 5 Oct 92 08:25:43 GMT


I probably should have been more explicit, a surge protector is indeed
better characterized to handle a "not so near miss" than a "near miss"
, which is why I also said that UNPLUGGING the system completely is the
best thing to do under severe electrical storm conditions. (which is
what I do when I see lightning flashing in my general vicinity, I unplug)

Blessings
 
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
(slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary) There are no fnords in this sig file.
Mail to me should be sent to:       |   autoreply to address I posted this
alizard@tweekco.uucp                |   from only if you want to wait a
boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM     |   solstice or two for my answer.
!uunet!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard  |                Kallisti!
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Keywords: do it thineself
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 10:28:58 EDT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson) writes:

> Ailsa!
>
>   Unfortunately, you are showing yourself to be the bigot. A highly un
> and spiteful one at that. LAY OFF! It's unbecoming and achieves absolu
> purpose (except maybe to fuel your own vanity and prejudice). If you w
> ref. (books, articles quotes, etc.) I will be more than happy to provi
> However, judging by your latest entries they would be beyond your scop
> understanding. You seem to be the type that would say:"Don't bother me
> the facts! My mind's made up!" - A pity...You might actually LEARN som
> new!
>                                 Ymir

highly uneducated?  bullshit.  spiteful?  gee, you caught me.  mea
saurus mea maxima saurus.  if you want to quote me books, articles,
etc., feel free.  "beyond your scope of understanding..."  *snort*
this woman quotes no facts, she blithers.  blithering doesn't make me
learn anything other than that the person is a blither.  show me
somethign to learn, somethign worth discussing, rather than
whatshernames's bullshit posturing, and we'll talk.  othrwise, go home
and play with your blocks, little boy, and don't tell your betters what
to think.

                                             -ailsa
                                              who is attempting to
                                              channel clay bond...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:00:28 GMT
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK

>>>But, it's not entirely unexpected.  Clinton has become noteworthy at the
>>>very point in time when people (perhaps for the last time) are trying
>>>their damnedest to deny all this "feminism" shit.
>>	
>>	"Last time"?  Somehow I have difficulty in being so optimistic. :'(
>
>Me, too, but sometimes it just feels good to say it. 

And keep saying it......naming is making, you know.


>>>Marilyn Quayle and Barbara Bush (whatever they may be privately) are the
>>>lasst bastion of old womanhood nationally -- the college senior and

>>living independantly.  Different paths, same goal.  If ya ask me, we ALL
>>should be able to take whichever path we want to take.
>
>and then turns around and dates the schmendrick in the next cubicle who
>drives a BMW, tell me this again with a straight face.

Again, I have to say we should respect each others' choices. While I don't 
support *using* anyone as a sole means of financial support, some couples
decide that one of them will work outside and the other will work inside the
home. Notice I left gender out of it: this applies for all couples, gay and
straight, and both parties in the couple. Notice that we think househusbands 
are really cool and supportive, yet we bomb and strafe housewives. If the 
arrangement is amenable to all involved, it's none of your business.

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: address for PACT
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:18:03 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>Does anybody have the address for the Pagan Alliance of Central Texas?


Yepper... send a SASE to:

Pagan Alliance of Central Texas
P.O. Box 12041
Austin, TX  78711

>Tammy

Oh, BTW, did I mention I'm the Corresponding Secretary for PACT?  See
you in the P.O. box... :)

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: books to avoid
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 03:15:00 PDT

Re: Re: books to avoid
By: ba #0 @mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) USEnet      
 
> In article <BvH1tJ.M2B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davi
> |> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> |> From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
> |> >>where all women are perfect and all men can sink into a swamp and
> |> >>die.
> |> >As a feminist, I have to object to your equating feminism (with ultras
> |> >attached or not, it's still feminism you're referring to) as being anti-m
> |> >At any level.  This concept is definitely what folks like Jerry Faldwell
> |> >and Rush Limbaugh want people to believe -- they both repeat this bogus
> |> >"aspect" of feminism quite a bit.
> |> >Feminism and man-hating two different things.  Period.  If they are not,
>  
> |> Well, by this definition, Z. Budapest is not a feminist.  I wonder how she
> |> like to be told that.  Coni, you are imposing *your* idea of feminism on a

I am quite male. I've met and talked with Z. Budapest on a couple of
occasions. I could detect no hostility directed towards me on the grounds that
I happen to be male. 

Perhaps one of you Silicon Valley pagans could track Ms. Budapest down and
get her an Internet account so she can tell us herself how she feels about
this. 

Blessings...
alizard

by the way, my birthdate is 9/18/54, born in Wayne, MI (suburb of Detroit),
time unknown.

                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
(slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary) There are no fnords in this sig file.
Mail to me should be sent to:       |   autoreply to address I posted this
alizard@tweekco.uucp                |   from only if you want to wait a
boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM     |   solstice or two for my answer.
!uunet!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard  |                Kallisti!
From: anwyn@hrnowl.lonestar.org (anwyn)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Libertarians, guns, etc. 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 01:13:27 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Horned Owl BBS


In article <1992Sep29.172045.18738@radian.uucp> markbr@radian.uucp writes:

  > 
  > 
  > The last ref in this thread is Corum responding to Anwyn's assertions, among 
  > them that the state is a myth, and that we should change the world only on
  > an individual level (if I understand Anwyn's statements correctly). To this,
  > I have only one short comment right now: there was a Protestent (I think)
  > minister, during WWII, who later said something to the effect of "When they
  > came for the Jews, I said nothing, for I was not a Jew. When they came for
  > the Gypsies, I said nothing, for I was not a Gypsy. When they came for the
  > Catholics, I said nothing, for I was not a Catholic. When they came for *me*,
  > there was no one left to speak out." 
Libertarians of all kinds oppose unnecessary violance. I believe that
all people should choose not to support violance. All persons  should retrain
the right (and the means) to defend themselves and inocent third parties.

However, when one opposes violance, care must be taken to insure that
the methods used do not acutally increase violance.

All violance is committed by individuals. However much violance occurs
in an organized fashion. Groups of organized persons are often involved.
Although I do not believe in the existance of the State, I do believe
that others do, and these beliefs can have social consequences.

If one were to examine the recient history, one will find that most
violance has been committed under the aegis of the various State myths.
The millions sacrificed in the World Wars come to mind. Of course, the
Nazi extermination camps can not be forgotten. Consder those deliberately 
starved and extermined by Stalin. Consider the thousands of Tibetians
reciently killed. The number of people killed under the authority
of a (to me, mythical) state makes insignifacant the number that are
killed by purely individual violance. Therefore, any plan to solve
the problem of individual violance is unwise, if that plan expands the
power of the State (or rather the myth of the State if you insist on
being pedantic about it like Corum.)
  >                                       Anwyn? Especially in light of the
  > current attempt, up in WA state, to legislate that homosexuality be immoral
  > & perverse, and taught to be so in the schools & universities?
I do not believe that State schools should take it upon themselves to
teach answers to fundamental moral questions. These questions should be
left to individuals. In fact, I believe all public schools should be sold
to private persons and private organizations. Education is too important
to be left to government. (If you had an important package to send it 
California, would you entrust it to U.S. Snail of Fed EX it?)
  > 
  >         mark
  > 
anwyn@hrnowl.lonestar.org	(Sysop horned Owl BBS)
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: C & E
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:05:33 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <BvGuH5.J1K@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>
>
>>	Does anybody happen to know what author Mercedes Lackey means
>>when the uses the phrase "the C&E"?  I get the feeling it has something
>>to do with Christianity or "normal" religions (normal in the "the general
>>public is unlikely to view an adherant of this faith as a Satanist" sense)
>
>Can you give an example, with citation of the location?  I don't remember 
>running across anything I didn't understand in any of her books, so I may have
>pulled it out by context clues.

	The best I can do right now is to say that it was used in 
"Burning Water" during the scene where Mark Valdez has a minor crisis of
religion at 3am, in his kitchen, while he and DT are reading lots about
some local traditions, thus giving DT a chance to talk about her reasons for
being a witch instead of an Epsicipalian(SP?).  I can't give you a page #
until I am posting from home, where the book is.

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: A Novice Asks...
Summary: Wanted: Introduction to Paganism
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Paganism
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:21:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.181752.21808@panix.com>, jimoates@panix.com (Jim Oates) writes...
> 
>I'm new to this newsgroup, but am finding this very
>interesting...
> 
>I'd like to find out more: Is there someone who could
>provide me with some answers (FAQ perhaps)
> 
>How about some books I could read?
> 
>Anything would be appeciated.
> 
>Thanks,
>Jim
> 
>jimoates@panix.com

Guys, do you got those FAQs ready?!?  Even if they are only half complete
could you set them up so we can go -->look.

Now,


My suggestions...start by reading
Starhawk...the Spiral Dance
Stewart Farrar....What witches do
Margot Adler...Drawing down the moon

Read this newsgroup
Read pagan magazines...
"Circle Network News"
"Green Egg"

Locate a local occult/pagan shop where you "feel" comfortable.
Talk with the people there.

I am being brief because of I have little time and many posts
to get through.  Please feel free to e-mail me if you would
like.

Tammy
lib1p@jetson.uh.edu

Blessed Be and Happy Journey
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 16:59:08 EDT
From: <IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: proposal alt.discordia...

Hi all
    Recently in Alt.Conspiracy there has been a suggestion
regarding forming a new newsgroup called alt.discordia.

in article: <1992Sep28.141322.688@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
in alt. conspiracy,
lesmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Lee Harvey Oswald Smith) writes:

>I propose that there be a newsgroup called alt.discordia.
>
>It would be devoted to:
>        - Discordian stuff, i.e., Erisian philosophy, discussion of
>          Discordian literature (Illuminatus!, the Principia Discordia, etc.),
>          ideas for pranks and pseudo-pranks
>
>It would fnord also be a great place for Discordians to meet on the Net.

    Since there has been interest in this group regarding
Discordia I thought I would cross post to see if there
was anyone who thought this would be a good idea.
    Anyone know what the procedure is for forming a new group?

     Pat

**************************************************************
Jesus Saves!!!! But the puck goes out to Gretzky, he shoots  *
 HE SCOOOOORRRRRRRRES!!!!!!!        PAT MYERS                *
                                    IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU  *
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Scents
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:53:21 GMT

Dittany is also known as Cretan oregano.  It makes a good spaghetti
sauce, with the appropriate other ingredients to taste...

Dictamnus alba is the botanical name usually used, but I've never
actually looked it up to find out if it's the correct one.  My
memory insists that's the way it's usually written, but it's
if so it's either a grammatical oddity or "alba" isn't an adjective.

It makes a rather peculiar incense -- reminiscent of a major fire
at your local Shakey's.

--LeGrand
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:03:03 GMT
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: blchapma@c00040-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <1992Sep27.224750.1039@ncsu.edu>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
|
|> Oh, yeah!  I haven't had this happen in gaming (was only ever in one).  But in
|> high school, one of my teachers was setting up a mock wedding and insisted that
|> the preacher be male.  I was so angry.  So when she asked for volunteers, I
|> raised my hand just to make the point of protesting.

If this wasn't so serious, it would be funny.  According to Barbara
Walker's sources, she writes that it was women who used to officiate
over weddings before the male-dominated religions took over.
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hey, Babe . . . What's Your Sign?
Date: 3 Oct 1992 16:31:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Born at 1:09 in the afternoon, 9 May 1974- Taurus- in New York University
Hospital, in Manhattan. The rest of my info I don't know, only that some
hundred-and-I'm-not-quite-sure-how-many years before, the physicist Gay-Lussac
died on my birthday. My sister- I'm not sure of her time of birth, but she
was born same place, 29 January 1980- the day Jimmy Durante died.

Not that that's relevant, but it's one of the things I noticed. Plus, I share
my birthday with Billy Joel (25 years to the day) and my mother has Enrico
Fermi and Lech Walesa's bday (29 Sept.).
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: Mabinogian
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 00:40:23 GMT

markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:

>In article <librik.717230130@cory.Berkeley.EDU>, librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik) writes:
>> 
>>    * Best of all, you could skip the middleman and go for PEDAIR KEINC Y
>>      MABINOGI, ed. by Ifor Williams.  Rather tough sledding if you don't go
>>      in for the Middle Welsh, though.

>If you do, my mother-in-law brought us back a good teach-yourself-Welsh 
>(modern) book & tape, which would be a good start. If anyone's crazy, er,
>interested, email me & I'll post the title & address.
>> 

Well, I don't think that would do you too much good.  The PEDAIR KEINC is
the "standard text" reproducing the original Mabinogion, in Middle Welsh --
the literary language used in the Middle Ages.  "Teach Yourself Welsh"
teaches you modern spoken Welsh.  The language has changed a lot in six
hundred years (though not as much as English, comparatively, has).

If you want to read the Mabinogion in Welsh, I'd go for the adaptation into
modern Welsh, done by Gwyn Thomas (a well-known Welsh poet and scholar).
It's called Y MABINOGI -- you can get it through the Welsh Books Council or
any Welsh bookstore.  I don't have the ISBN here, though.  I believe it's
published by the University of Wales Press.

- David Librik
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu

-- Welsh is actually pretty notable for how slowly it changes -- though the
last few decades have seen a change (in the spoken language) so radical that
it resembles the transformation from Brythonic to Welsh in the sixth century.
Both are the result of intense pressure from the English: the first, the
Saxon invasions that swept across half of Britain; the second, the invasion
of English TV and culture into every corner of Wales.  But still, the written
language is conservative: consider the famous line from Y GODODDIN by Aneirin,
a poet from about 600 AD:
        Gwyr a aeth Gatraeth gan wawr   ("Men went to Catraeth with the dawn")
in Modern written Welsh, that would be:
        Aeth gwyr i Gatraeth gan wawr
Think of the difference between the English of "Beowulf" (three hundred years
after the Gododdin) and modern English.  Of course, in modern SPOKEN Welsh,
the above line would be:
        Mi ddaru i wyr fynd i Gatraeth efo'r wawr
which shows the problems with learning only the spoken language when you want
to read as well.