HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:35:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.98886
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <92289.150344RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert Haskins) writes:
>Kris Pranata writes:

>> In article <92287.091713RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert
>> Haskins) writes:
>> > I'm more intrigued by the statement Glass is working on a symphonic
>treatmetn

>Well, I heard the "Low" Symphony is going to be recorded on Glass's own
>new label, Point Music (kinda makes you wonder about the status of Glass's
>"exclusive," life-time contract with CBS, doesn't it).

Has anyone heard anything about the _nature_ of this treatment?
_Low_ has two sides which are different in character, I presume
he plans to work with the second side (to which Eno made an equal
contribution) only.


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger    (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu)          VOTE PEROT  VOTE PEROT       
If you think the Republicans screwed up the country, can you afford to
see what the Democrats will do?!   ->BEWARE OF SLICK-WILLY CLINTON!!<-
Organization: Junior, Music, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 1992 12:33:22 -0400 
From: "Alexander B. Mandl" <am46+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Diaghilev and Scheherazade

I would appreciate if anyone could give me some suggestions as far as
readings or articles on Diaghilevs production of Korsakov's Scheherazade.

For some reason there just seems to be very little about it.

HELP!!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen)
Subject: Re: Tchaikovsky Sextet?
Organization: Nat'l Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:47:27 GMT

I think it's op. 70, supposedly on an EMI recording of the Borodin
Quartet (with quartets op 11, 22, 30), although I've been unable to
find it.

Marc

--
Marc Andreessen
Software Development Group
National Center for Supercomputing Applications
marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:50:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct16.035036.7639
 <1992Oct16.004935.21659@Princeton.EDU> 
 <1992Oct16.015007.2067@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1992Oct16.025516.2821@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct16.025516.2821@Princeton.EDU>
roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

> >And much, much different results. 
> 
> True of Josquin and Monteverdi, Beethoven and Bartok.  You got a point here
> somewhere?

If for the sake of sarcasm you replied in that manner then ignore this
response. However if you didn't then I meant different in terms of
quality of achievement. Next please cite me an example of a conscious
shange in Verdi's musical style (Don't even try Aida-Otello) Are use
also saying the motives for the change in Wagner (Which I still believe
are purely the result of his genius) SInce when is a study of Wagner's
writing definitive proof of his intent (more likely than not is was the
exact opposite)

Anyway I didn't mean to impugn changes of style. Deliberate style
change itself is not something bad IF its for purely artistic reasons
however if its because the first style gets bad press...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Dr. Faustus
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:16:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.151846.18776@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>Depends on what kind of understanding you want to achieve.  Only Brian
>would argue that there is only one "correct" understanding of a piece,

No, I would make that claim as well.  My argument is simple:  

Suppose there were two totally correct interpretations of a piece.
Either they agree, in which case they do not differ, or they disagree,
in which case they must disagree on at least one claim P about the
piece.  By hypothesis, at least one of the interpretations is totally
correct, so if that one says that P, the other must say that not-P.
But not both P and not-P.  So, contrary to hypothesis, there can be
at most one totally correct interpretation of a piece.

See what a little logic can do to straighten out the mess that
aestheticians have gotten us into?

>
>Roger

>that all other takes, no matter how gratifying, are "wrong."

Well, that's a completely different kettle of fish.
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opinions of _Classic CD_ Magazine?
Keywords: classic cd magazine
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:39:32 GMT

In <Bvu9vo.A5p@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chuck Carroll) writes:

>Anyway, in the latest "Musical Heritage Review" (read: catalog)
>there is an ad for _Classic CD_ magazine...

>The cost is $34.95 for 6 months.

>So my question is, is there anyone out there who subscribes to
>this magazine now, or who has ever subscribed to it?  If so, what
>do you think of it?  If nothing else, I'm hoping it will expose
>me to a wide variety of classical music so that I know what I like,
>rather than me going out and buying random CD's.

I don't subscribe, but pick it up at the store from time to time.
Probably my biggest gripe is that the magazine boldly states on the
cover "The Magazine with the FREE CD!", but what it actually is is an
often thin magazine with a CD, the combination of which costs $8.95 an
issue. I wouldn't count on such a CD to give a very well rounded music
education or experience, but the material they usually include is
fairly diverse, sometimes rather unusual, occasionally gimmicky,
generally well produced and usually interesting. I wouldn't think a
6-month subscription would be a bad investment to get a good feel of
the sort of material they offer, and at $35, it's barely the cost of 2
regular priced CDs, for which you'll get 6 long samplers and
informative reviews. I'd say go for it.

Steve Heller
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: pierrot lunaire
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:46:31 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <Bw12pq.B0B@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <Bvz6Br.E3v@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:

>>I am looking for a version of Pierrot lunare, op 21, by Schoenberg.  I
>>already have the version by the Budapest Chamber Orchestra/ Erika
>>Sziklay, soprano.  There is much I like about this version, but think
>>the vocal solo could be more convincing.

>This is an interesting problem.  Schoenberg never quite solved what he
>wanted with "Sprechstimme," and a later spoken piece (Ode to Napoleon)
>simply indicates high, middle, and low pitch areas.  

Not quite.  It's a one-line staff, but there are ledger lines (as many as
three above or below) and accidentals; he wanted a good deal of careful 
inflection.  Moreover, he made a German version (based on his own
translation of Byron) that maintains the "pitches" of the vocal line
except in a very few places, where they are either transposed by a 
perfect octave (!) or altered enharmonically to make the line easier
to read.  By comparing the two versions (and the enharmonic bits)_ one 
sees that the one staff line must be the A line at the top of the bass
staff.  (Some of the autograph is written like that, btw, as are a few
sketches.)  End result: the vocal line *also* ends solidly in E flat!
(And hangs around E flat quite a bit elsewhere...)

Go figure.   

>Schoenberg's own
>performances apparently made very free with pitch, even with contour (he
>wrote it for an actress, after all), and his statements about the device
>over the years are sometimes contradictory.  

That's putting it mildly...

>His own recording doesn't
>work very well (partly because, as he later confessed, they
>underbalanced the voice), 

In one letter he states that "the singer is never on pitch..." -- but
she *is* on pitch when she's singing the few notes that are marked that
way.

>and the "start the spoken tone on pitch, then
>glide away" approach, besides being hard to listen to, is based on a
>false idea of how spoken pitch is perceived.

Right.  Schoenberg's phonology was, not surprisingly, self-taught...


Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: "New"??? Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:41:16 EDT

In article <1992Oct13.145551.2190@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu
(Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <98436@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>With this sort of reaction to new composers it's no wonder one cannot
>>find an interesting program in this country anymore. Man!
>
>You wouldn't happen to be a composer, would you?  8-)
>
>(Or a grammarian.  I didn't see any reaction to new composer*S* -- just
>to a single one...)

New?  When does someone no longer qualify as new?  Seems to me Phil Glass
no longer fits the bill.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Need info on Kraanerg by Xenakis
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 22:02:32 EDT

In <1b2dvoINNhv8@agate.berkeley.edu> maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:

>In article <music.718578473@batman>, music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) writes:
>|> 
>|> So, is Roger Woodward the _conductor_ or is there a major piano part
>|> in it as well? Do you know if it's scored out or an improve sort of
>|> thing (rare for Xenakis, if ever)?

>He's the conductor -- Alpha Centauri is a nonce ensemble he put together to
>play Kraanerg for the first time since its premiere (in 1969?) -- and as far
>as I know it's fully scored.  Twenty breasts, five dead bodies. 
>Contrabassoon fu, bandpass filter fu.  Drive-In Academy Award to the
>Sieve of Eratosthenes, as the piccolo part, for saying "shreeeeeeeee...."

Sounds absolutly charming, savage even...
(Sometimes I wonder if certain works by Xenakis are to "average classical
listeners" what "death/thrash-metal" is to "average rock listeners",
with all that may imply (and being a quasi-member of both groups)...)

-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:00:16 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <Bw7wIn.E73@acsu.buffalo.edu> chu@acsu.buffalo.edu (John C. Chu) writes:
>In article <CB.92Oct15101722@tamarack13.timbuk> (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>This brings up my anti-favorite musical treatment of words: "the bombs
>>bursting in air" in the Star-Spangled Banner.  It would be easy enough
>>to put "the" before the beat, unstressed, and give "bombs" a longer note
>>on the beat, but we force the syllables into the predetermined musical
>>line, with a resulting effect of "THUH-b'ms bursting in air".

>You must not be singing the Service Version of the Star Spangled
>Banner. In the version "prepared for the Army and Navy song and band
>books, and for School and Community singing, by a Committee of 12",
>the words "the bombs" are 2 eighth notes on the third beat so they act
>as a pick-up to the word "bursting". The result is like this:

>"the bombs BURSTing in AIR", which sounds perfectly fine to me.

No, that's the problem!  Two eighth notes (on three-and) for "The
bombs" puts more stress on "the" than on "Bombs." 

Better to give "glare" a dotted quarter on the downbeat, "the" an
eighth note, and "bombs" a quarter.  Fixes the diction nicely -- but
makes mass singing very difficult, as people will want to give "glare"
and "air" the same duration. (and "flag was still THERE.")

Of course the song (the most martial 3/4 tune in the world) has all
kinds of poetic problems, e.g. the rhetorical conceit of framing the
whole first verse as a question, and one that doesn't mention its
object by name until almost 3/4ths of the way through--"flag."

Then there are the hard-to-sing bits, like "proof thro' " -- sounds
like 10,000 people with a chest cold.

In all, the poem is adequate at best, and the job of retrofitting it
to Stanhope Smith's glee, problematic.

But I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Roger

>					john
>				chu@acsu.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cs123057@cs.brown.edu (Chainsaw)
Subject:  What are these pieces (Re: The Abuse of Classical Music)
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:49:08 GMT

In article <Bw19Hp.Ixz@comp.vuw.ac.nz>, brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Brian Boutel) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> In article <12OCT199212061044@rover.uchicago.edu>, frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger) writes:
|>  > 	Lately there was the add (that mercifully died an early death,) which
|>  > 	showed seats flying out of the plane with new (1mm) larger seats flying 
|>  > 	back in, all to that wonderful duet from Lakhme.
|> 
|> Ah, the British Airways song.
|> 
|> They had an ad with the same music showing hordes of people marching over strange
|> landscapes, with each group forming the shape of a facial feature, eventually
|> coming together to form a face. An ear is clearly seen in transit, but it never
|> arrives. Just like their baggage service?

Can anyone out there tell me what this piece is and who wrote it?

Also, there was a commercial for the "Money" magazine a few years ago.  They
used a chamber string piece that sounded vaguely Mozartish, can someone please
tell me what that piece is?

Thanks a lot.
 
|> --brian
|> 
|> -- 
|> Internet: brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz
|> Postal: Brian Boutel, Computer Science Dept, Victoria University of Wellington,
|>         PO Box 600, Wellington, New Zealand
|> Phone: +64 4 471-5328   Fax: +64 4 495-5232

								Chainsaw
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:34:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

> fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
> |> One of the greatest abuses to me is the (over)use of Gershwin's Rhapsody

You know, this thread has been going on for a few days now, and *nobody* has
mentioned Carmina Burana. Mind you, I'm not sure how far you can describe its
use in a lager commercial as abuse.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Alternate Classical-Music FAQ Memo
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:46:23 GMT

In article <MARCA.92Oct14200258@wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu> marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.164910.18433@newstand.syr.edu>
>jmwobus@mailbox.syr.EDU (John M. Wobus) writes:
>
>    Actually, believe it or not, within these constraints, today's
>    composers put a lot of attention into making the music listenable
>    and to writing something which will get played.  The idea that the
>    average composer of contemporary music completely ignores his
>    audience is simply not true.
>
>Not to sound like an uneducated boor (which, naturally, I am), can you
>name some of these composers?  I.e., those who write compositions that
>won't make me leap at my CD player, smash my fist down on the ``STOP
>DAMMIT STOP'' button, and hurl the disc into a blast furnace.
>
>Marc
>
>--
>Marc Andreessen
>Software Development Group
>National Center for Supercomputing Applications
>marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Try:	Rautavaara
	Crumb
	Hovhaness
	Lloyd
	Kanchelli
	Gorecki

PS: Do you keep your blast furnace at home or at work?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:10:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.081947.10567@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>
>The question:  what works do you see as simply untranslatable and why?

I see no point in translating Italian bel canto tragic operas, because
the sound of the words is more important there than their meaning.  I
admire the librettists Felice Romani and Salvatore Cammarano just
for the beautiful sound of their language and its suitability for
being sung.  In that flowering of romantic libretti, understandability
was not a high priority.

So I would not want to translate Romani's

Il Pirata
La Sonnambula (even though it is not a tragedy)
Beatrice di Tenda
La Straniera
Norma

or Cammarano's

Lucia di Lammermoor
Roberto Devereux
Battaglia di Legnano
Luisa Miller
Il Trovatore


Richard
From: kkothman@weber.ucsd.edu (Keith Kothman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: price of CDs (was Re: EMI price increase)
Date: 13 Oct 1992 20:32:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1bd54gINNerh@calvin.usc.edu> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>
>Michael Jackson is unlikely to recieve an upfront $1 or $2 million. 

Actually, I think he receives much more.  

MJ, along with his sister Janet and Madonna (among others), are
under contract with record companies in return for a (huge) lump
sum payment plus royalties.  I don't know who gets the most these
days, but it's on the order of ~$5 million.  They do this 
because they expect to sell many millions of copies.

Classical music, on the other hand, sells very little (with little of
it even available on cassette, due to low demand for poor 
quality media).  It still is, however, expensive to record a
larger group.  The cost probably gets spread around to all
releases on a given label.

Keith Kothman
kkothman@ucsd



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:23:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.150259.9653@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>c) Glass, unlike those two, is also dervative of, i.e., he pointedly
>uses, the orchestral sonorities and textures of late-19th-century
>composers from Europe: Mussorgski, Puccini, etc.  Lots of orchestral
>listeners don't care all that much for the structure, and pay more
>attention to sonority -- a trend among composers, too, in this whole century,
>by the way.  (No, not the only trend, no, not all composers.)  Anyway,
>this has much to do with Glass's popularity.  

I think Glass's popularity also has to do with the repetive rhythms.
They are used to that from pop.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: news@walter.bellcore.com
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Reply-To: marc@bellcore.com (Marc F Pucci)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 16:37:46 GMT

Re: Bach Suites for Cello,

In article <1992Oct8.181207.1@ulys.unil.ch> bmoullet@ulys.unil.ch writes:
>
>.... Jacqueline Du Pre had recorded a very nice execution of these suites too.
> ....


I have suites 1 & 2 of the Bach Cello Suites on the EMI label
(CD's anyway).  These were on volumes labeled "Early BBC recordings"
Do the other suites exist (maybe on LP)?  Is this a different set?

Marc Pucci

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Bach's sixth cello suite.  What happened?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:42:52 GMT

In article <MURRAY.92Oct10094827@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu> murray@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Thomas Murray) writes:
>Speaking of Bach's cello suites, I've been doing some fairly intense
>listening lately.  The sixth suite (D major) really stands out. The
>movements, especially the Prelude and Allemande have gotten much
>longer than previous suites (with the exception of the Prelude of the
>fifth suite in C minor), much more dramatically intense, and the range
>just exploded.  The Prelude goes up to a high E (I believe)!!  And it
>stays up there much of the time, before suddenly plunging down to the
>depths. 

>What happened?  Was Bach just maturing?  Did something traumatic
>happen about this time?  

Well, if we knew the time, we'd be all set.  8-)  All we know is "circa
1720, Coethen."  As for trauma, that's a pretty dangerous way to go; 
after all, Stravinsky's Symphony in C doesn't really sound as though his
family were dying, nor does the kleine Nachtmusik of Mozart sound as though
Papa had just died, nor are Mahler's Kindertotenlieder really wedding
music...

>Any musicologists or historians out there...

One observation: the weird one in a set of six or 12 is usually placed last
in 18th C music.  You can see this again and again: the 6th B'burg, almost
certainly not *composed* last, is a sort of concerto-upside-down-cake,
with accompaniment instruments soloing, solo instruments accompanying, 
rtirnellos behaving like solos and vice versa.  Mozart's 2nd set of 
quartets puts the weird D minor fugue at the end, and some Haydn sets
put the odd-one-out last, too, e.g., Op. 76.  La Malinconia in Beethoven's
Op. 18 is in #6 as well.

Anyway, biography is so often *not* reflected in composition that it's
not a good idea to assume that something must have prompted a particular,
strange piece.

Roger
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Voyage
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:56:43 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

The voyage will be performed on Columbus Day (fittingly enough) I can't
wait for more Glass!!! Columbus set with spaceships and Aliens!!! Who
needs the Ring or Otello and Falstaff when you can have Einstein on the
beach. Who needs Aida when you can have Aknaten (sp)? Who needs John
Williams when you can have Glass' mindnumbingly derivative and second
rate movie score? I can't wait to buy more recordings of the man who
was voted most boring composer in a poll of concertgoers!
No offense but I just can't stand ole' phill glass
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical