HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math,comp.compression
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re: PI)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 11:20:12 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <Bzo3p1.6I7.2@cs.cmu.edu> tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane) writes:
>Why not just convert the decimal representation to binary, and store the
>binary expansion of pi?  That gives you log2(10) = 3.322 bits per decimal
>digit.  Assuming that the digits of pi are actually random, this is the best
>that can be done.

But since they are not random, we can do much better.  Write a program
for computation of the digits of pi (even an inefficient one),
and use that as your "encoded" version of pi.


-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18344 alt.folklore.science:4497
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Subject: Re: mean failure time vs power-to-weight ratio (was: Re: Sig file)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.science
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.science
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:11:36 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks

Paul Tomblin (pt@geovision.gvc.com) wrote:

>Whereas a mountain bike needs about 1 hour service for every month of
riding
>(about 10 hours off road, 20 hours on road).  Maintained at this rate, I
>expect my bike to last 10+ years - except it won't be me riding it: I'll
>upgrade!

What, to a new body?

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: Foobar (was Re: Proper pronunciation of 'Kibo' IN BED)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:32:32 GMT

In article <Bzn8sE.EE9@ecf.toronto.edu> murraya@ecf.toronto.edu
(MURRAY ALEXANDER W) writes:

>The first two Words, "foo" and "bar", were revealed to me through divine
>intervention of the Hydro gods.  Two letters in a Food Barn grocery store's
>sign were burned out.  Or perhaps this belongs in alt.shenanigans?  Or
>alt.religion?  Or alt.kibo.enough.gack.gack.gack? ;-)

     I have a photo of a gas station's convenience store where one
of the letters had fallen off (or was knocked off a bolt of divine
lightning) to reveal its true identity as a "Foo  Store".

     Too bad there wasn't a bar next door.

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!"  -- Night Court

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: Worlds wierdest system crash!
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:11:24 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

andrew@mks.com (Andrew Hamilton-Wright) writes:
>
>Hey - anyone else find the truly fiendish bug in the C=64 that the same
>bus is used to pass the sprite location AND do disk addressing (took me
>months to figure out why one program I had would occassionally, randomly
>lock up, but would run fine 9 times out of 10 - the bloody thing was
>overwriting the handshake from the drive and then waiting, forever, without
>interrupt)

No, I didn't encounter that bug, because I knew the First Law of C=64 Hacking,
which is:

	NEVER DO "SERIAL BUS" I/O AND *ANYTHING* ELSE AT THE SAME TIME!

In particular, sprite graphics (which steals cycles from the CPU as well as
using the "dead" clock phases) will cause the CPU to miss the changing signals
on the serial bus, since the bus control lines are *polled* not
interrupt-driven.

If you want to do disk I/O form a program that does graphics and/or sound as
well, disable the sound chip, shut off sprites, blank the screen to the border
color (there was a control bit that did this if I recall aright), and remove
any custom interrupt routines that may exist *before* you issue the KERNAL
call that actually reads or writes data, or opens a file.  Then put everything
back.

/* WARNING: Long "war story" ahead. */

I had a game from Sierra ("Crush, Crumble and Chomp" I think) that had a very
long intro sequence with sound and custom charsets that was interrupted
several times by the need to access the disk.  Like all good C=64 programs, it
used a vblank routine to drive the sound chip, so the sound would stop (go to
silence) for a few seconds while the 1541 chugged and churned, then start
exactly where it left off when the interrupt routine was re-enabled.  They
didn't blank the screen, but it worked.  My attempt to reverse-engineer this
display didn't work, probably because it used file I/O instead of random block
reads.

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: FOO and Re: 8008 related to PDP-11? (was: What is so greate ...)
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:00:40 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> However, PDP-8 ODT/DDT would use
> 
> 123/
> 
> to open the location to display and/or change
> 
> Thus, to toggle in a short program you might use:
> 
> 200/ 1234 7200	the 1234 was the old contents; now hit LF to goto next
> 00201/ 1234 7001	the 1234 was the old contents; now hit LF to goto next
> 00202/ 1234 7402	the 1234 was the old contents; now hit LF to close
> 200G			start it up at 00200

And this lives on in console ODT on current pdp11s.....

'course data is 16 bit and addresses are 22 bit....

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: New "Hello" program
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 09:24:01 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan) writes:
>Seth "the Lesser (slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
>>
>>Or we could resurrect a bit of dying slang that originated right here at
>>Columbia U. and refer to him as a "wank" (see Jargon File at least since
>>2.9.6).  I think calling him a "wanker" would be giving him too much
>>credit.
>>
>>So.  alt.fan.dannie-drucker.wank.wank.wank it is, then?
>
>In the English [as opposed to American] speaking world, this word has a
>rather different meaning, which is still appropriate however.

I'm well aware of this--it's an intentional double-entendre.

>Your assertion that the word originated "right here" is nothing short of
>laughable.

RTFJF *as I suggested*, Geoff.  I meant the sense of the word which includes
over-the-head conversations (as in, "Stop wanking about Teranet and let's go
get Chinese"), pointless hacks (as in, "a silly wank to synchronize an analog
wall clock to WWV"), serious errors of judgment (as in the phrase "policy
wank"), and utter garbage spoken through the hat (as in, "Gee whiz, Dannie,
you just pegged out my wankometer").  This usage is clearly based on the
English usage, but is nowhere near identical.  Sadly, however, it is now
substantially dated.

IMO, a slang term which has widely different meanings in different dialects
cannot be considered the same word, but rather a set of cognates.  Such is the
case with "wank."  Our "wank," though spelled and (barring accents) pronounced
the same as your "wank," has a substantially different meaning and is used by
a different set of people in a different context; it is, therefore, a separate
semantic entity, descended from but distinct from yours.  And it originated
right here at Columbia.  Your assertion otherwise is what is "nothing short of
laughable," Geoff.

I must respectfully suggest that any further debate on this subject be taken
to alt.usage.english, where there lurk hundreds of Jargon experts waiting to
flame you alive.

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
From: madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re: PI)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 17:23:14 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


>> But aren't all those arithmetic encoders invented to solve that problem?
>> Huffman is clearly less optimal in this case.

Yes, arithmetic coders stuff a zero bit every once in a while to catch
the carry bit so that you don't need to calculate arbitrarily long
fractions.  An arithmetic coder would perform slightly better than the
simple Huffman coder I showed, however that coder is already within
0.1% of ideal, and is faster than a software arithmetic coder can be,
even a simplified one for this particular application.

Also, you'd probably have to do arithmetic about as long as the Huffman
coder would to get as close as it does to the ideal.  For example, I could
code nine digits at a time instead of three, using 32 bit arithmetic.
I'd guess that a typical arithmetic coder won't do much better.

mark
From: samuel@front.se
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI)
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:08:52 GMT
Organization: Samuel Gustaf Siren

In article <1992Dec29.093759.3737@pollux.lu.se>, magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus 
Olsson) writes:

> But please note that Samuel wrote "most of the
> non-rational/non-algebraic" above. He didn't claim that *all*
> transcendental (non-algebraic) numbers shared pi's property of having
> a pseudo-random decimal expansion.

Now that I have thought some more about it, I'm modifying my statement to
be "ALMOST ALL trancendental numbers".

The reason for this is :
  - All trancendental numbers that DOESN'T have a pseudo-random decimal
    expansion must have a rule that describes the principle of
    how this non-pseudo-random decimal expansion is "implemented".
  - This rule can be encoded into an integer number.
  - Thereby, all such trancendental numbers correspond to an integer and
    are ENUMERABLE.
  - ...which proves that such trancendental numbers are just as 'rare' as
    rational or algebraic numbers !
  - Could also be expressed as : There exists only Aleph-0 (*) "such 
    trancendental" numbers; where Aleph-0 denotes the (infinite) number of 
    all enumerable numbers.

But maybe this is old stuff. If this is the case, does anybody know if there
is some common denomination for "such trancendental" numbers ?

/SS
--
(*) By the way, some facts :
  - "Aleph-0" denominates the number of all enumerable numbers.
  - "C" denominates the number of all real (or complex) numbers.
  - Though both Aleph-0 and C = oo, C is infinitely larger than Aleph-0.
  - "Aleph-1" denominates the next infinite number larger than Aleph-0.
  - It is believed that Aleph-1 = C (the continuum hyothesis), but this
    has not been proven yet !
(These numbers and a lot more are described in "The Emperor's New Mind" by
Roger Penrose, Oxford University Press 1989, an exellent book which I 
strongly recommend)
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
|                      |        / \                           |
| Samuel Gustaf Siren  |      __!_/_                          |
| SAMUEL@front.se      |    / \ |  / \                        |
|                      |   |/  || | \__oW)----------          |
| All opinions and     |   !! / /\ \                          |
| questions are my     |     / /  \ \                         |
| own /SS              |    //    //                          |
|                      |   /|    ((                           |
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
From: kubo@zariski.harvard.edu (Tal Kubo)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math,comp.compression
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re:
Date: 23 Dec 92 06:23:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec23.012334.18793
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Dec22.180409.18792@husc3.harvard.edu>
kubo@boucher.harvard.edu (Tal Kubo) writes: 
>
>  (2) A number is random if, to predict the N'th digit given
>      the (N-1)'st with a better than random chance, there is
>      no alternative but to produce the first N digits (in the
>      same sense of alternative as above).

Sorry,  that should read "given the first N-1 digits" above.

-Tal   kubo@math.harvard.edu
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:32:54 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks

Charles Lasner (lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:

>First there was the original 9000 aka Sirius 1.  This was a machine with
>800 x 400 monochrome graphics and some really nice text chars standard.
>Terminal emulators for VT-100 are available including quite readable 132 
>column mode.

>Disks consisted of "quad" density floppies with "zones" such that the
>motor speed is adjusted depending on the track, and different sector counts
>are written on each zone (same sector count on any track in any one zone).
>Total disk capacity was 660K while IBM eventually had 360K in DD drives.

Sounds suspiciously similar to the CBM/PET floppy setup. Do I see the hand
of Chuck Peddle at work? [were these gcr too?]

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
From: dougw@zippy.as.arizona.edu (Doug Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: mean failure time vs power-to-weight ratio (was: Re: Sig file)
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:39:33 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In article <1992Dec22.180313.15770@ll.mit.edu> cogen@ll.mit.edu (David Cogen) writes:
>
>|> >>Right -- higher power-to-weight decreases mean time to failure.  For
>|> >
>|> >Oh dear; does this mean that we should start to worry about the sun?
>|> >
>|> 
>|> Silly Answer: No, the data is all taken from items of human
>|> manufacture. Deities use a different and much more complicated
>|> formula.
>|> 
>|> Very Silly Answer: Of course not! The sun has no weight - see how it
>|> floats up there in the sky? - therefore it will last forever.
>
>Serious answer: No. I think I remember reading that the power to weight ratio
>of the sun is not high at all. Something in the range of a few hundred watts per cubic meter. What's the weight density? Then we could translate
>watts per cubic meter to watts per kilogram. I think it's significantly less
>than a gasoline engine.
>
>David Cogen.
> 

For the sun:  Luminosity  3x10^33 erg/s = 3x10^26 W
              Mass        2x10^33 g     = 2x10^30 kg

So the power-to-mass ratio for the sun is 1.5x10^-4  W/kg

Could whoever started this thread post the actual data points
referenced?

-=-dougw@as.arizona.edu-=-

P.S. the radius of the sun is about 7x10^10 cm, so this gives an average
     mass density of ~ 1.3 g/cm^3   (for reference, water has a density
     of 1g/cm^3)
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: using /bin/ed (Was Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?)
Date: 21 Dec 1992 13:46:50 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz) writes:
>davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave) writes:

>> Well, if you look at it that way, ed has all the features you NEED in an
>> editor. (As a matter of fact, I still use ed. (Stop laughing!)

>of course, anyone trying to admin a Unix system who knows emacs or vi and
>not ed may not enjoy the day they boot and can only mount a minimal file
>system that doesn't include /usr/bin.

You haven't really enjoyed an editor until the day you try to recover
from a link-editor cache corruption problem on a Sun.  You have sbin
and shell builtins to work with, and that's basically it:

	pickup% ls /sbin
	total 733
	 152 hostconfig*          64 init*               112 sh*
	  21 hostname*            32 intr*
	 184 ifconfig*           168 mount*

I've done some pretty amazing things with "echo" and redirection.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: CLI/GUI wars (was Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued...)
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:08:39 GMT
	<1i7e5lINNd5u@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: University of Oregon Chemistry Stores
NNTP-Posting-Host: miser.uoregon.edu
In-reply-to: aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 3 Jan 1993 19:18:13 GMT

In article <1i7e5lINNd5u@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner) writes:

   I don't know about DR-DOS, but MS-DOS _HAS_ support for I/O redirection
   (the CTTY command), and piping.  I'm not so sure about what you mean
   be "editable command lines", but there are meany shareware and freeware
   utilities that can provide command history.  I'm also not sure what you
   mean by the ability to launch/control background processes.  Do you mean
   multitasking, task switching, or popup utilities?  The DOS Shell provides
   task switching, although it is _VERY_ clunky. (Maybe MS wants you to get
   WIndows instead, eh?)  Actually, come to think of it, the Shell may also
   provide some command history and whatever you mean by "editable command
   lines".

Sounds like you need to put in some flight time on a real
computer.  DOS does support I/O redirection, but CTTY is not what
does it (CTTY supposedly lets you change the console device,
although hardly anyone ever uses it).  MS-DOS does not support
piping between concurrent processes; whereas in UNIX a pipeline
consists of concurrently executing processes joined by pipes, in
DOS they do a gross kludge to simulate this by loading each
program in the pipeline in succession with its standard input and
output going to intermediate files.  This means that in DOS all
the programs have to run to completion in order for any output to
come out the last stage of the pipe, and large amounts of disk
space may be needed to store the intermediate files.  In UNIX you
can get output from the end of the pipe as soon as the last
process generates output, and a small amount of memory is needed
to serve as pipe buffers rather than a large amount of disk
space.

Then claiming that MS-DOS pop-up utilities is real task-switching
is horribly ignorant.  MS-DOS TSR programs are unbelievably
terrible crocks.  MS-DOS doesn't provide any support for such
things at all; the best you can say of it is that it looks the
other way while the TSRs muck with a variety of system resources,
hopefully not trashing them.

The original MS-DOS COMMAND.COM does not provide command history
(it does not store previously entered commands for later recall).
Of course, there are a lot of TSRs that attempt to provide it.

I wish that the demon spawn of the IBM PC would all plummet back
into Hell.
--
Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
From: azog@spatula.rent.com (Billy D'Augustine)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: CLI/GUI wars (was Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued...)
Date: 1 Jan 93 15:59:30 GMT
Organization: A kitchen utensil somewhere in central New Jersey

In article <19096@mindlink.bc.ca> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) writes:
>
>But, for a change of pace, why not rate some of the various GUIs and CLIs in
>use, and note which systems can use both?  Why not waste some net.bandwidth
>in a slightly different way than mere flame wars?
>
[stuff deleted]

You forget to mention the Atari ST. This is also a GUI based machine, 
the GUI being GEM, and the OS being TOS (for 'the operating system' :-)
which has a similar feel to MS-DOS.

The GUI is really easy to use. For the most part, its a cross of a 
program launcher and a file manager. Unlike MS-Windows, when you open
a window, you see ALL the files, and depending on which version you can
have, you can 'associate' files with programs (double click on a file
ending in .C and itll compile it). Because of its simplicity, you dont
need to have a tome in front of you when you use it. And because of
its simplicity, there are many things you want to do, but cant. All
in all, Ill take this GUI over MS-Windows, and the Amiga. I would
rather have X, but thats because I am a hacker :-)

Theres plenty of PD CLIs available, but none come with it stock. One
of my favorites its called Gulam, and it gives you a mix of csh and
ksh. All the commands (such as ls) are built in, which is both good
and bad. My next favourite one is bash, but theres also ksh and sh,
plus others based on COMMAND.COM (one is even called COMMAND.PRG),
but I find it very buggy.

And finally, for those Atari haters who say it can only run one task
at a time, theres something called MiNT, which gives you that
functionality. 

-- 
Billy D'Augustine 
azog@spatula.rent.com

Evil walks behind me.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers