HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gaspar@urz.unibas.ch
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: Hi res modes
Date: 16 Aug 92 13:28:56 GMT
Organization: University of Basel, Switzerland

In article <1992Aug15.202637.2558@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, m_sattle@tangram.informatik.uni-kl.de (Matthias Sattler) writes:
> In <1992Aug6.094438.9971@slcs.slb.com> long@scr.slb.com (Peter Long) writes.
> 
> 
>> There was some mention of a mode 1024x768x16, is it possible to post
>> the setup for this mode I have not been able to replicate it on my
>> A5000 or A540.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O.K. here it is. This mode can be used on A540 and A5000 but it will only have
> 36Hz picture frequency. If clock your VIDC with 50 Mhz it will have 50Hz then
> (I tried this and it worked fine except that 50Hz is still too flickery
> for me).
> If you choose 60Mhz for your VIDC it will have 60Hz but my VIDC didn't do this
> (as I wrote in my previous article).
> *sniff*

[code deleted]

How do you clock the VIDC with 60MHz? Do you just replace the quarz in the 
VIDC enhancer? Are there any known problems (apart from the one you mentioned)
that may cause damage to the VIDC?
The cooling of the VIDC could be done with a product called Icecap. I don't 
know if there is one that fits the size of the VIDC, though.

laci
 
> 
> Matthias Sattler
> e-mail: @uni-kl.de:m_sattle@poker.informatik.uni-kl.de
> (Funny but this works.)
> 
> 
> PS: Gerben I got your mail but I can't mail outside Kaiserslautern to
> answer you.
-- 

*******************************************************************************
*             Laci Gaspar, University Basel, Switzerland                      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: zrzm0111@helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (MUFTI)
Subject: Has someone ported the rt.a (the library for iconc) to the acorn
Organization: User Help Desk, Comp. Cent. (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:15:11 GMT

Hi

Has someone ported the rt.a (the library for iconc) archive to the Acorn
Archimedes under riscos ?
If yes, I could try to convert my icon-programs with iconc to C on a faster
machine and can compile the result local ...

so long
MUFTI
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: charlie@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Charlie Brown)
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK
	<1992Aug13.205528.15434@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:46:29 GMT

jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA) writes:
>torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:
>
>>Afeature I have sorely missed in compilers for C etc. is a cheap
>>tail-call: if the last thing you do in a procedure or function is to
>>call a procedure or function, this can be implemented as a goto rather
>>than a general procedure/function call.
>
>What do you mean? What if the tail-called function then tries to call
>another function or (even worse) recurses? This could only work if
>the tail-called function expected to recieve *exactly* the stack frame
>that the tail-caller has had set up when it was called.

Maybe my brain has been rotted by using HPs for too long, but I'm sure
that Norcroft C does tail call optimization (I'll give my Arc a break
from being a Tertis and Icon server some time, and check it).
Certainly lots of compilers (OK, I mean gcc) do it, and manage the
necessary frame fiddling.

It's occasionally useful for writing gross/cute things like:

int countBits (int i, int acc)
{
    return i == 0 ? acc : countBits (i & (i - 1), acc + 1);
}

(doubtless originally due to Martin Richards :-) I think Norcroft
produces near identical code for the above and an equivalent explicit
loop.

On designing languages in general, if you're trying to produce a fast
system language you could try something a bit like B (typeless C +/- a
bit), which would be fun. Once you start integrating all those
wonderful little features you love from Lisp and Icon and Eiffel et
al, you tend to lose some of the elegance and simplicity you meant to
achieve :-)

Cheers,
Charlie

Anything approximating an opinion is my own
and is not necessarily shared by my company
From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:02:46 GMT
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech

In article ... jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA) writes:

   torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:

   >Afeature I have sorely missed in compilers for C etc. is a cheap
   >tail-call: if the last thing you do in a procedure or function is to
   >call a procedure or function, this can be implemented as a goto rather
   >than a general procedure/function call. Also, the local variables of

   What do you mean? What if the tail-called function then tries to call
   another function or (even worse) recurses? This could only work if
   the tail-called function expected to recieve *exactly* the stack frame
   that the tail-caller has had set up when it was called.

Urk? You clean up the stack before you call the tail-called function, of
course. It's a standard optimisation, at least in the Lisp world. [The only
objection to it is that it can make debugging harder -- you lose the functions
that tail-called when you get the stack backtrace.]

   And remember that Acorn's C compiler (the ARM proc. call std.?) is clever
   enough to notice when you call a function that does not call another (a
   leaf function), and does not bother with most of the context-storing
   operations involved in normal function calls.

I'm not sure you said what you meant. There's no cleverness involved in calling
a leaf function (after all, who's to know that it *is* a leaf function?), it's
just that leaf functions don't need to carry all the baggage of a full function
call -- it's the code of the leaf that ``does not bother with most of the
context-storing operations''. [They don't carry the baggage because there's
very little that can go wrong inside them, so they don't need to record who
they are in case something does.]


--

Regards,    | It's strange how you suddenly discover bizarre and dangerous
Kers.       | holes in your knowledge.  I fell down one today. - Steve Knight
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
From: jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:55:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland
Keywords: Compiler/Language

torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:

>Afeature I have sorely missed in compilers for C etc. is a cheap
>tail-call: if the last thing you do in a procedure or function is to
>call a procedure or function, this can be implemented as a goto rather
>than a general procedure/function call. Also, the local variables of

What do you mean? What if the tail-called function then tries to call
another function or (even worse) recurses? This could only work if
the tail-called function expected to recieve *exactly* the stack frame
that the tail-caller has had set up when it was called.

And remember that Acorn's C compiler (the ARM proc. call std.?) is clever
enough to notice when you call a function that does not call another (a
leaf function), and does not bother with most of the context-storing
operations involved in normal function calls.

-- 
_________________  "I'd like to answer this question in two ways:
  /____ _ _/_ __       First in my normal voice, and then
 // / //_//_ /_/       in a silly, high-pitched whine." (Monty Python)
From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:02:13 GMT
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
From: jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:27:11 GMT
 <1992Aug13.205528.15434@cs.aukuni.ac.nz> <KERS.92Aug14085518@cdollin.hpl.hp.com>
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin) writes:
>   And remember that Acorn's C compiler (the ARM proc. call std.?) is clever
>   enough to notice when you call a function that does not call another (a
>   leaf function), and does not bother with most of the context-storing
>   operations involved in normal function calls.

>I'm not sure you said what you meant. There's no cleverness involved in calling
>a leaf function (after all, who's to know that it *is* a leaf function?), it's
			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mr. Compiler knows.

>just that leaf functions don't need to carry all the baggage of a full function
>call -- it's the code of the leaf that ``does not bother with most of the
>context-storing operations''. [They don't carry the baggage because there's
>very little that can go wrong inside them, so they don't need to record who
>they are in case something does.]

Actually, I thought that they didn't bother stacking anything because the
compiler *knows* they are leaf-functions. Leaf functions being defined as
functions which do not call any other functions; this means that you *know*
the function doesn't call anyone else, so you *know* that you don't need to
bother with stacking stuff that you would otherwise need to restore context
on return from a called function.
-- 
_________________  "I'd like to answer this question in two ways:
  /____ _ _/_ __       First in my normal voice, and then
 // / //_//_ /_/       in a silly, high-pitched whine." (Monty Python)
From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:08:27 GMT
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech

In article ... jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA) writes:

   kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin) writes:
   >   And remember that Acorn's C compiler (the ARM proc. call std.?) is clever
   >   enough to notice when you call a function that does not call another (a
   >   leaf function), and does not bother with most of the context-storing
   >   operations involved in normal function calls.

   >I'm not sure you said what you meant. There's no cleverness involved in 
   >calling a leaf function (after all, who's to know that it *is* a leaf 
               				^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mr. Compiler knows.
   >function?), it's just that leaf functions don't need to carry all the
   > baggage of a full function
   >call -- it's the code of the leaf that ``does not bother with most of the
   >context-storing operations''. [They don't carry the baggage because there's
   >very little that can go wrong inside them, so they don't need to record who
   >they are in case something does.]

   Actually, I thought that they didn't bother stacking anything because the
   compiler *knows* they are leaf-functions. Leaf functions being defined as
   functions which do not call any other functions; this means that you *know*
   the function doesn't call anyone else, so you *know* that you don't need to
   bother with stacking stuff that you would otherwise need to restore context
   on return from a called function.

The compiler knows that a function is a leaf function when it *compiles* it,
not when it compiles a *call* to it (your original remark - at the top - said 
``is clever enough to notice when you call [note this] a function that does not
call another'').

That is, what you *said* suggests that the compiler compiles *calls* to leaf
functions in a special way, and what I think you *meant* is that *leaf
functions* were compiled in a special way.

Otherwise I think we're in furious agreement.

--

Regards,    | "Layered protocols give the software implementor a chance to
Kers.       | ruin his performance in each layer." - Don Gillies
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: m_sattle@tangram.informatik.uni-kl.de (Matthias Sattler)
Subject: Re: Hi res modes
Reply-To: m_sattle@tangram.informatik.uni-kl.de (Matthias Sattler)
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern (Germany)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:26:37 GMT

In <1992Aug6.094438.9971@slcs.slb.com> long@scr.slb.com (Peter Long) writes.


> There was some mention of a mode 1024x768x16, is it possible to post
> the setup for this mode I have not been able to replicate it on my
> A5000 or A540.


>         Thanks Peter


O.K. here it is. This mode can be used on A540 and A5000 but it will only have
36Hz picture frequency. If clock your VIDC with 50 Mhz it will have 50Hz then
(I tried this and it worked fine except that 50Hz is still too flickery
for me).
If you choose 60Mhz for your VIDC it will have 60Hz but my VIDC didn't do this
(as I wrote in my previous article).
*sniff*


begin 644 Md124
M````````````````F````!P````D````0````$UO9&4Q,C0`36]D93$R-`D)
M,2XP,"`H,C4@07!R(#$Y.3(I`$UO9&4Q,C0`````````````````7```````
M``!-;V1E(#$R-"!P<F]V:61E<R`Q,#(T>#<V."!G<F%P:&EC<R!A="`T(&)I
M=',@<&5R('!I>&5L+@T*``!0`%'C#O"@$0$`4^,!`',3#O"@$7P`4N,`$*`#
M"#"/`DQ`CP(.\*`!#O"@X0$````;`````("C@`#`!H0`@"&(```AC```H9``
M`**4`,#'H`"``*0```>H`(`'K`"`Q[```,BT"P``X/____^@C```_____P``
M```;```````````````!````?P````(```!?````!`````$````%`````0``
E``8``````@``!P``````!@`+````_P,```P```#_`@``_____P`%
`
end


Matthias Sattler
e-mail: @uni-kl.de:m_sattle@poker.informatik.uni-kl.de
(Funny but this works.)


PS: Gerben I got your mail but I can't mail outside Kaiserslautern to
answer you.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: jjjbokma@cs.ruu.nl (John Bokma)
Subject: Sharing Knowledge
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:50:49 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science
Keywords: Bugs,Hints,Tips etc

Please mail me bugs, hints, tips additions for the PRM (please RO2 only)
etc. I'll try to compose from all those nice "evrybody should know this"
stuff a kind of addition to the PRM which will be mailed to everybody who'
helped in creating this list (if the list is not too long). The list
will also have references to the person(s) who mailed me the tips etc.


If the list becoms extremly large i will post it to an Archive Site 

John
From: hmeekings@armltd.co.uk (Harry Meekings)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:46:11 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Aug13.130618.18871@odin.diku.dk> torbenm@diku.dk
(Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:

>Afeature I have sorely missed in compilers for C etc. is a cheap
>tail-call: if the last thing you do in a procedure or function is to
>call a procedure or function, this can be implemented as a goto rather
>than a general procedure/function call. Also, the local variables of
>the calling procedure need not be saved before the call, as they will
>never be used again. Note that this is not a laguage feature, but a
>compiler feature. This requires a callee-saves-registers strategy, but
>that is often the simplest anyway.
>

It's curious that this should be posted in an Acorn newgroup, since the Acorn
C compiler does indeed do (indeed, has always done) conversion of tail-calls
branches, except when
   the calling function contains a call to setjmp
or the calling function takes the address of an argument
or when compilation is using the -g flag (to avoid confusing the poor user).

It's true that lots of compilers don't do this but, bearing in mind the
background of the compiler's original authors in functional programming, it's
unsurprising that the Aconr compiler does.

Harry Meekings
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: robg@citr.uq.oz.au (Rob Geraghty)
Subject: RS232 connections
Summary: how to connect 9pin-25pin?
Keywords: RS232, 9Pin D
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:43:48 GMT


Hi folks,
	 would someone out there be able to give me a wiring diagram for
a null modem connection for 25pin D RS232 to 9pin Arc RS232?  I'm told
it's not standard and I can't just buy a 25-9pin converter.

thanks
Rob

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Geraghty                         | Time, flowing like a river
robg@durian.citr.oz.au               | Time, beckoning me
CITR                                 | APP
------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Geraghty                         | Time
robg@durian.citr.oz.au               | Flowing like a river
CITR                                 | Time
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Subject: Re: New Language/Compiler (ideas wanted)
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Keywords: Compiler/Language
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 04:23:04 GMT

>orion@grun.is (Halfdan Ingvarsson) writes:
>
>
>>Hiya folks...
>
>>  Erm. I was thinking of writing a (sort of :) compiler using
>>my own language (a weirdo mixture of C, Pascal etc.. ) and I
>>am getting a little short of ideas. 
[...]
>>So.. If anyone has some cool ideas or something dreamthings they'd like to
>>see in a compiler I'd be glad to hear from them.
[...]

A number of years ago, someone suggested a "comfrom", to match a
"goto".  When it was first mentioned, it was as a joke.  However, the
more I thought about it, the more it appealed...

The idea is that both ends of the goto are labeled.  This has several
advantages:-
 
(1) At the target label, the "comefrom" clearly identifies the places
from which the current label can be reached, and just how many places.

(2) Also it will help to discourage indiscriminant use of the
"dreaded goto", without preventing its use in "appropiate" contexts.

(3) This would give the compiler more scope for picking up errors.



Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: gpalmer@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gary Palmer)
Subject: Re: POSIX library - does one exist
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 12:44:49 GMT

In article <788@ozz.oasis.icl.co.uk> imb@harvey (Ian Brown) writes:
>Does anyone know if there is a POSIX conforming library about, or if any
nes
>working on one.
>
>If not, I may contact the Unixlib author and get his permisiion to use
>that as a basis for one...
>
>
>	All the best
>              Ian Malcolm Brown
>
>Mail:         imb@oasis.icl.co.uk  OR  ...!uel!dsbc!imb
>Phone:        +44 344 424842 x2310 (ITD 7263 2310)
>Fax:          +44 344 487832
>Organization: International Computers Limited
>Address:      ICL, Lovelace Road, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 8SN, UK


>Does anyone know if there is a POSIX conforming library about, or if
> anyones working on one.

There is someone working on one, yes.

> If not, I may contact the Unixlib author and get his permisiion to use
>that as a basis for one...

Hehehehe

I got a letter from him saying that he was going to work on a POSIX 
complient library, with virtual memory. I can tell you more, but I don't
have the details with me.

It is due to come out at the end of the summer.

Good luck

Yours

Gary Palmer

P.S. You can mail me as gpalmer@cs.strath.ac.uk also, but we don't have
the split newsgroups here yet :-(
From: goodwin@edieng.enet.dec.com (Pete Goodwin)
Subject: Re: So, should I buy an A540 now or wait for what's behind door #1?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: comp
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:41:41 GMT


In article <JKH.92Aug12102812@sparc3.lotus.com>, jkh@sparc3.lotus.com (Jordan K Hubbard) writes...

>Now I could go down this week and have all this in my hot little hands
>quickly enough, but I'm starting to wonder if this is such a good idea
>with Acorn's next beastie rumored to be waiting in the wings.  Even
>with the A540's CPU slot upgrade, it won't help me much if Acorn comes
>out with new video / sound hardware in the new machine as well.  Also,
>the cost of upgrading + original machine is always more expensive than
>the whole new machine, so I'd feel pretty foolish if I bought a new
>machine now only to have to look at upgrading in 6 months or less.

Well, if any new machines appear, they'll probably appear at the Acorn User
show in October, which is two months away. The A540 is currently top of the
range, but doesn't have RISC-OS 3, as the A5000's do.

Pete Goodwin
goodwin@system.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk (Lorcan Mongey)
Subject: cgm->draw
Cc: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: lorcan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:18:00 +0000

In article <1992Aug12.103110.8221@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
cstevens@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
 
>I'm lookig for anyone who's got a program which can convert Computer
>graphics metafiles (cgm) to draw format for use on the ARC. If anyone's
>got it I'd appreciate it very much if it could be uploaded to
>.binaries.
 
The program you want is CGM->Draw by Keith Sloan but it is CareWare, so
it should not be uploaded to .binaries. Try contacting Norwich Computer
Services (96a Vauxhall St, Norwich NR2 2SD) - I think it's on one of
their Careware discs which cost 7 quid to non-subscribers.
 
Lorcan
From: alm@doc.ic.ac.uk (Alexander L McLintock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Acorn User Show get-together
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:35:46 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.

In article <DBH.92Aug11103024@wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk> dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes:
>
>The idea seems to be that we identify each
>other by the absence of certain items - 

I won't be wearing a badge saying "I read comp.sys.acorn".
But then again I might be :-)


>Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk>

AlexMC



-- 
| ALEX MCLINTOCK (ug) | Imperial College | or/ Sci Fi Soc, IC Union
| alm@doc.ic.ac.uk    | Computing Dep.   | Beit Hall, 
|*JOB*WANTED*PLEASE*  | Huxley Building  | Prince Consort road,  
| ICSF CHAIR ENTITY   | 180 Queens Gate--->London SW7 2BZ
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: impression->TEX
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:29:15 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK

gta@st-andrews.ac.uk (Graham Allan) writes:
: As for printing, all RISC OS applications will output PostScript using the
: PrinterPS printer driver, so you should be able to get high-quality output
: from any such program. If you still need a TeX format for some other reason,
: I would guess the existance of a PostScript to TeX converter is a lot more
: likely than that of an Impression to TeX converter.

You can't in general "uncompile" PostScript output to any useful
semblance of the source document.  Structural information is not
preserved in the PostScript output.  Impression to TeX is a far more
feasible operation.
-- 

				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
From: pdenize@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Extended Post Script to Draw
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:23:59 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand


I have been trying all day to convert an Extended Postscript file into
a Draw file.

I tried Willi Langhan's / John Kortink's !EPSobject but it created a drawfile
with an object in it that is too small and will not load in any draw programs.

Has anyone else got / written an EPS to draw converter, or have the original
Willi Langhan version (non-RiscOS).  The Desktop version has been hacked about 
and makes examining the conversion process almost impossible.

Paul Denize

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Denize                                Internet: PDenize@Waikato.ac.nz
Department of Computer Science
University of Waikato                         phone: ++64 7 8562-889
Hamilton                                                          Ext 8743
NEW ZEALAND                                   fax  : ++64 7 8560-135
--------------------------------------------------------------------------