HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bmartin@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (Bryan Martin)
Subject: Re: DREAMS
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,sci.cognitive,misc.education,sci.lang.japan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:04:02 GMT


In a previous article, miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
writes....

> I'm beginning to wonder about the connection between dreams, stories,
> and learning.
> 
> ------- STORIES AND LEARNING
> 
> I just read an article in Whole Earth Review that I thought was very
> interesting.  It's about a teaching technique that seems to be getting 
> miraculous results -- things like 4-year-old retarded kids with IQs as
> low as 20 learning how to read.
         ^^

People with IQ's of 20 (or 40, for that matter) have much bigger problems
to conquer than learning how to read.  I'm quite sure the number was MUCH
higher.


> 
> The gist of the technique is to build a little story around each new
> small cluster of material.     .....(deleted).....

This is nothing new, these techniques have been used to memorize things
for so long its a wonder anybody thinks they are new anymore.

> The results teachers are getting with this are so profound as to scare
> them -- some teachers are backing off from it, because the kids are
> "getting too smart."

This is typical extreme left (or extreme right) paranoia pap, "the masses 
are learning too much!", used to make people believe anything they read.
Believe it or not, MOST teachers in this, and other, countries want
nothing more than to teach their students, and teach them well.  If
something like this worked with incredible results, it would be certainly
used.  But consider this problem: we must memorize not just a few, but
MILLIONS (possibly more) of facts and relationships between them in our
lives, and as we progress in school we must learn them more and more quickly.
It is not hard to imagine that we could quickly get overloaded with stories,
and begin to confuse one with another....

> .....(deleted).....

> Both American Indians and Australian Aborigines (and countless
> stone-age cultures elsewhere, I'm sure) are known to revere dreams.

Not to mention the modern psychiatric profession.


Just so you don't think I'm scoffing, Michael, I used this very technique
to memorize the kanji back when I was taking Japanese.

Bryan Martin
bmartin@maemaster.eng.uci.edu
=============================================================================
Hey, I thought history WAS just a nice story intended to get me to memorize
something!  I just can't remember what!
=============================================================================
Any and all flames will be personally ignored by the author.
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: melissa@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Melissa Ingells)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: SUNSHINE IN DREAMS ?
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:31:46 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prentice.wkar.msu.edu

In article <1993Jan4.000557.1@climat.geology.yale.edu> zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu writes:
>From: zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu
>Subject: Re: SUNSHINE IN DREAMS ?
>Date: 4 Jan 93 00:05:57 EDT
>In article <melissa.3.726095029@radio.wkar.msu.edu>, melissa@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Melissa Ingells) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan3.032012.1@climat.geology.yale.edu> zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu writes:
>>>From: zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu
>>>Subject: SUNSHINE IN DREAMS ?
>>>Date: 3 Jan 93 03:20:12 EDT
>>>
>>>	With only one exception, there is never sunshine in my dreams, and 
>>>the milieu is always very dark, as if it were perpetual dusk, or the sky were
>>>permanently overcast, regardless of the nature (happy or sad or whatever) 
>>>of the dreams. 
>>>
>>>	Does this imply anything? Is this the usual case in a dream?
>>>
>>>
>>>							Taiping Zhang
>> 
>
>
>	Thank you very much for your reply. Although there is no sunshine
>in my dreams, they are not threatening to me, and I don't feel uncomfortable
>with my dreams. On the contrary, I am often with my good old friends in my
>dreams and, therefore, I am very happy. OOPS.  NEVER MIND!  LIKE I SAID, 
JUST A GUESS...A PASSING (AND INCORRECT) THEORY.>
>	You also mentioned that as you get older, you get more sunshine in
>your dreams. That doesn't seem to happen to me.   WELL, I TEND ALSO TO 
DREAM MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE SO I GUESS JUST IN TERMS OF MATHEMATICS 
MOST THINGS OCCUR IN MY DREAMS MORE THAN IN THE DREAMS OF MANY OTHER 
PEOPLE.  HOWEVER, YOUR DREAMS MAY CHANGE AS YOU GO THROUGH VARIOUS 
LIFE STAGES...THEN AGAIN, MANY PEOPLE HAVE SIMILAR PATTERNS ALL THEIR 
LIVES.   THAT IS NICE THAT YOUR FRIENDS ARE IN YOUR DREAMS, THOUGH.  
IT'S FUNNY HOW POWERFUL THAT CAN BE--YOU ALMOST WAKE UP FEELING AS IF 
YOU'D HAD A VISIT....WELL, ANYWAY, HAPPY DREAMS.

MSI>
From: cthomas@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Flying in Dream...
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:18:24 EDT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana

In article <1993Jan6.084815.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>, watling_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>> 
>> 	Any people out there who have ever dreamt flying (not in a plane. 
>> of course) ?  Share you experience with me. Analyses of this kind of dreams
>> will be appreciated.
>> 
>> 					Taiping Zhang
> 
> My last flying dream was years back but I remember it clearly. I had to lie on
> my back with my arms at my side. I first made small circles with hands out flat,
> just using the wrists. Once I got off the ground I could do circles from my
> elbows and finally as my height increased I made great sweeping circles with my
> whole arm. I rememebr fearing hitting power lines...

That is very interesting to me that you mentioned the power lines.  For a long
time I have had a fear of not being able to get high enough soon enough to
clear power lines.  However, Just last night I dreamt that a huge flying robot
(A flying ED-7 if you've seen Robocop) was after me.  In that dream I used
the power lines to my advantage.  I went through them because I was small
enough but the ED-7 followed me into the lines and was destroyed.
	This in my life suggests using one problem to anhialate another without
being powerful enough to directly take it on (the ED-7).
	Another experience is that I always try to fly as high as possible but
many times I cannot will myself to fly very high.  My hight is directly related
to how hard I concentrate.  I think that how high I fly in dreams is very
much related to how frustrated I am or how much control I have.  Once I dreamt
that my girlfriend was cheating on me (she wasn't in real life).  In the dream
I was very upset and shot up in the sky like a rocket with no trouble at all
.
From: idg39@jester.usask.ca (Inez Gowsell)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Flying.
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:54:46 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: jester.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Unfortunately, I have never flown in my dreams, or maybe more accurately,
I have never controlled flight.  

I have been in the air many times, but it is usually the result of running
off of a high cliff or being on a swing that went too high, so all I end
up doing is falling.

I do become lucid with these falling dreams however.  When the situation
happens I realize it is a dream and I get angry because I am falling.  I still
haven't figured out why these particular dreams happen.

I flew in an airplane for the first time about 7 years ago and enjoyed it
immensely, and I had never been afraid to fly, so I am not sure what my
subconcious is trying to tell me.

Inez
 
--
*************************************************************************
| Inez Gowsell                            | Gazing at people            |
| 129 Albert Ave                          | Some hand in hand           | 
| Saskatoon, Saskatchewan                 | Just what I'm going through |
| Canada   S7N 1E6                        | They can't understand       |
| gowse340@skdad.usask.ca (after jan 13)  |              - Moody Blues  |
*************************************************************************
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: VIRTUAL DREAMZ
Distribution: world
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:28:43 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Wed  7 Jan 93 21:10, 002369c@axe.acadiau.ca (william Fre
wrote:

 F> again and there was the owner of the dog and a friend. He came down
 F> and 
 F> said, "Just looking out for you." 

Interesting that you should put this comment in.  A few nights ago my mum
had a dream in which she was standing near some gates.  Everything else
around her was pitch black and she could see nothing else.  From near the
gates there appeared a black opening (she could perceive the opening but
not actually see it).

She said that suddenly her dream self was drawn back from the gates and
away from the "things" that were coming from the opening.  As she was
beginning to wake up, she heard a voice (which she though was mine) say...

"Geez...that was a close one wasn't it mum!"

Strange...

cheers

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: bdd@onion.eng.hou.compaq.com (Bruce D. Davis)
Subject: Re: Sound and light machines
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:18:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.222326.3121@newsgate.sps.mot.com> George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com> writes:
>Does anyone have any recommendations on electronic
>meditation devices (maybe this has already been
>covered but I missed it)?  I read an article summarizing
>them in the Nov. SKY magazine (American Airlines?)
>but lost it (along with addresses). Are they effective?
>
>I'd be willing to spend more money for ones that
>really work than a couple of hundered for those
>that don't (or are marginally usefull).
>
>[In case not obvious, my goal is to reach a
>meditative/dream/trance state more rapidly than
>without such a device]
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>George Paap
>
>I am my opinions.
>(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)

edmund scientific used to sell the old 'bio-feedback' device (a fairly
decent alpha brain wave 'detector'). i bought one when i was about 13
i think (that was about 30 years ago. my how time flys when you're 
having fun!) if memory serves my correctly, i paid around $150 back then.
i'd think you could pick one up today for about the same (or less) money.
and i'll vouch for their efficiacy. having 'learned' the way to keep the
mind focused with eyes lightly closed (and 'looking' at a point roughly
between the eyes) to generate alpha waves, and later when i learned TM
(around 16 years of age i think), the same held true. i found that during
TM, one generates alpha waves which when coupled with the mental repetition 
of a 'sound' (your mantra), you could transcend normal waking consciousness 
and attain yet another state of consciousness. once one learns the technique,
the biofeedback device becomes unnecessary. the tm technique also works
quite well as a prelude to OOBEs (one must be fully relaxed to setup the
vibration state which preceed separation from the physical body). 

there are also a number of meditation/relaxation compact discs which will
help you relax; i wouldn't think they'd help much with transcendental
meditation (you don't need any external physical stimuli interfering with
centering on your mantra!).

there are also several light oriented devices which are supposed to cause
'trance'. i've not tried them (and have actually heard some frightening
things about the potential for seizure when using them; when the frequency
of the light conincides with the brain's waves...) john lilly used a 
repeating tape loop to induce trance; i'm sure there are many ways using
external devices, but for my money TM is the fastest, easiest, cheapest,
safest, read *best* means of accomplishing your goal...

hope this helps!
--
bruce (spin doktor)
From: brazier@ph.und.ac.za
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Inclusions
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:55:06 GMT
Organization: University Of Natal (Durban)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc25.ph.und.ac.za

In article <42980@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ee52fbc@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington) writes:
>	Also, sometimes I have dreams where in the dream I can't
>open my eyes. I think this is maybe me noticing that my eyes are
>closed in real life?

Yes, I think this is so.  I've had similar dreams, and in a few have managed 
to force myself to open my eyes, the result being my really opening my eyes, 
and waking up.

cheers
From: Phillip_Eastham@kumear.apana.org.au (Phillip Eastham)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: What can't you dream about?
Distribution: world
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:39:05 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Thu  8 Jan 93 18:24, Peter_mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (
wrote:

 P> In a message dated Wed  7 Jan 93 21:10, Pv@gagme.chi.il.us (paul
 P> Vader) wrote:

 PV> death experiences with. You can't dream about dreamless sleep,
 PV> because then it wouldn't be dreamless, would it? PV

 P> Apologies...I didn't read your message correctly.  Dreaming of
 P> dreamless sleep...yes...I see your point.

This is becoming curly! Ok. Let me ask you this. Have you ever woken up in
the morning and said to yourself "Bummer. I didn't have any dreams last
night"?

 P> I feel so cheap :)

Yes Pete, but then we already knew that :-)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

This message proudly bought to you by:

                               phillip_eastham@kumear.apana.org.au
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Some Comments/Questions
Keywords: Bilingual dreams, lucid dreams, friends dying
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:52:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan05.031335.197794@zeus.calpoly.edu> rfritz@zeus.calpoly.edu (Ryan E. Fritz) writes:
>In alt.dreams, mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington) spewed:
>>
>>(3) Languages in dreams.... I am bilingual (Japanese and English)
>>and I dream in both languages, often mixed together. In my dreams,
>>there will be people who I know in real life only speak English,
>>speaking Japanese (or the other way round). If there are other
>>bilingual dreamers out there... does this happen with your dreams
>>too, or do you tend to stick to one language for one dream? Do people
>>speak the 'correct' language in your dreams?
>
>Although I would not consider myself truly bilingual, I do speak Spanish.  I
>do relatively good at understanding the language, however, I often struggle
>in real life to find the correct words to use.  It seems, though, that in my
>dreams, I have no problem speaking spanish.  It all just flows out, and from
>what I remember, it is correct and says what I want to say.  Kind of
>interesting.  I don't really know why it is this way.

I've never gotten past the struggling stage in any language, unfortunately.
This is equally true in my dreams.

I had an interesting dream along these lines just last night.  The relevant
fragment is:

	A friend (in RL) and co-worker (in this dream) has the task
	of greeting a business visitor from Japan.  After a short
	struggle he says something, though I forget what, in Japanese.
	The response is in fluent English, surprising me.

On the one hand, I'd like to believe that this is partial confirmation
of a theory I've mentioned in this group: that in spoken exchanges, 
if you (or as suggested by this case, SOME speaker you are identified
with) speak first in your weaker language in RL, the dream character
addressed will more likely get full command of your stronger language,
even if this defies expectations, because that character won't have to
compete with the dream-ego for access to those centers in the brain that
are associated with your stronger language.

On the other hand, something like this happened to me just last week.
I communicated something in pantomime to Japanese guests working here
("close the door, your workstation is playing an industrial-music
loop that is annoying some of us", pointing and gesturing), only to get
my response in fairly fluent English ("We are trying to figure out how
to stop it, but we'll close the door until we do.")  Just a coincidence?
I doubt it.

I'm starting to see the value of controlled experiments for this kind
of thing.
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Subject: Re: can't be lucid dreaming
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:24:19 GMT

glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:

>Night terror seems to make sense, especially for the first couple of
>times it happened.  I do remember fear while seeing these
>visions.   However, the last time it happened, the dream I awoke from
>was not a nightmare, simply an intense dream.  The visions, especially
>the mini movie screen was not frightening.  I was just curious about
>what it was about.  Perhaps night terror need not involve nightmares
>or fear.  Maybe the intensity of the dream has something to do with

	I believe that night terrors are merely a subset of the 
"awake with the dream mechanism running" type of thing.  Narcoleptics
are more prone to this particular disturbance (waking dreams), but 
any person can have it from time to time.


>One person suggested that I might have had a near OOBE.  I know
>nothing about these, but assume that what I experienced was not
>a near OOBE.  I'll have to read the OOBE newsgroup to help confirm
>this.

OOBE are merely hypnogogic type phenomenon related to the other
sleep disturbances, imo.
JD
From: LB.FHG@isumvs.iastate.edu (Fred Gulden)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Flying in Dream (power lines)...
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:00:25 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:

 >I too have had difficulty with power lines in flying dreams.  I remember
 >having a particularly difficult time rising up past the powerlines.  I
 >couldn't get the clearance, it was like they were stopping me.  In the
 >only dreams I remember, I have always made it past them, but it is always
 >close.
 >
 >It is quite interesting that I am not the only one who has experienced
 >this.  If there is anyone else, please speak up.

I recall having that problem in childhood flying dreams, but not as an
adult.  But I cannot recall *any* power lines in recent flying dreams.
   ___,
  ( |_ _  _  _|
   /' / '(-'(_|
  """"""""""""""
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis)
Subject: Re: Interpreting dreams
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:24:44 GMT

wk00191@worldlink.com (Eddie Kovelan) writes:

>I had a dream not long ago that to this day is still baffling, 
>maybe some of you can help interpret this dream.  I'm just curious to 
>get other points of view...

>The dream started with me looking at myself sleeping in the bed.  I then 
>looked beside me and saw the grim reaper (the typical g.r. most people 
>envision).  I then turned and began flying straight up into the dark, starless 
>night.  Suddenly, I heard a voice say "This is your purpose and mission 
>in life, you must take this and go back to earth," and I was handed a 
>bright neon blue stone that was heavy enough to pull me down to earth 
             ^^^^
>and into my body.  In my dream, I woke up to see the grim reaper 
>nodding his head then disappearing.

>I know it's not much of a dream, but strange to me nonetheless.  

>Bundy


I was particularly drawn to the color blue in your post.  Some claim
that blue is associated with the "throat" chakra which infers
communication or perhaps teaching.  Are you a teacher?

Perhaps that is the reason you are "back."  I can think of no greater
mission than to open the world of dreams to those who  think they
dream not.  Best wishes on your journey.


Michael J Shea (brownt@seq.uncwil.edu)


"Wakefulness is the path to immortality;  heedlessness is the path
to death.  Those who are wakeful die not;  the heedless are as if
dead already.

"Wakeful amidst the heedless, keenly vigilant amidst the sleeping
ones, the wise man forgeth ahead, even as a charger outdistanceth
a horse of lesser strength."

						  The Buddha, from the "Dhammapada"
						  (N.K. Bhagwat's Translation)

Or as a Tibetan Dream Yogi once said, "You must learn to not sleep
like an animal."

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: sprute@dsf58a.desy.de (Lars Sprute)
Subject: Conscious decision in a dream ?
Organization: DESY, Hamburg, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:56:32 GMT

I wonder if I could make a somewhat 'conscious' decision in a dream.
I'm going to change my life in various ways right now, so there were some
of this 'jumping of the edge and hit the ground' like dreams, but I
only reach the edge asking me if I should jump or not. This was the time
when I awoke. 

I was thinking a lot about this dreams connecting it to my 'real' life,
where I have to make some severe decisions and I talked to myself like:
" Come on, if you are not brave enough to jump out of your secure life,
why don't you just try it first in your dreams and see what happens."

Few days later I had another dream of this kind and I was standing at the 
edge, ready to jump. But I didn't awoke and I was thinking (in my dream):
"Okay, you're dreaming, just try it, it's harmless and might be interesting."
And I jumped....  The feeling wasn't uncomfortable but it wasn't quit neat
like flying or gliding, more somewhere in between. A few moments later I 
awoke, very happy to did it and since then I've started to make a few
of that frightening decisions in my 'real' life not so worried about
of what might get wrong and all that stuff, also looking forward for more
dreams of that kind, and I'm sure they show me a way to get rid of the
concepts of safety in my life, which I think is a illusion.

Lars

--

/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Lars Sprute  -R-                            Net:                          |
| DESY (Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron)                                   |
| Notkestr. 85                                sprute@desy.de                |
| D - Hamburg 52                              SPRUTE@DESYVAX.BITNET         |
| Germany                                     13313::SPRUTE.DECNET          |
| Tel. +49 40 8998 3219                                                     |
| FAX. +49 40 8998 3282                                                     |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 18:07:18 EST
From: Senthil Ramas Kumar <SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: alt.out-of-body

In article <1inl6mINNj13@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ak044@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Jeremy Borger) says: > >I'm sorry to have to post this here, but it seems
many people in this sub are >also in alt.out-of-body.  > >I do not have
access to the OOBE group.  Does anyone know why this might be?  >-- >Jeremy
Borger - AKA: DeF


The group alt.out-of-body, does not seem to available on all sites.  I am
not sure, what exactly is the problem, but to temporarily alleviate the
situation, GARY [gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us] has set up a mailing list which
mirrors the newsgroup.  Pl.  send e-mail to him, *stating* the purpose, and
he shud add u into the mailing list.

I hope, pple find this useful.

Kumar
From: vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu (Luke Vaughn)
Newsgroups: alt.world.taeis
Subject: Taeis Status?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 23:39:30 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu

Whats up with taeis? Any new news? Just curious.

Luke Vaughn
vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu

Mekal'ua, First Lord Admiral, Petreocean Imperial Navy @taeisMUSH
Newsgroups: alt.dragons-inn,alt.pub.cloven-shield