From: johnsd2@jec304.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:50:16 GMT

In article <1b1qo2INNh2k@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
[deletia- OLE et all]
|> >|> >How about OS/2 applications, not DOS apps?
|> >|> 
|> >|> The Palette Manager will do its best to allocate the desired color for
|> >|> each application.
|> 
|> >Maybe _you_ can tell me then. How good is this? What does
|> >OS/2s palette manager do, and how well? Comparted to the
|> >Mac Palette Manager.
|> 
|> What's your definition of good?  For me, if the colors don't look too
|> ugly, then they're good enough for me.  And I haven't had any chance to
|> test the palette management capability of OS/2, I run my desktop at 16
|> colors and not many PM apps I have would use more than that.  If I try
|> to load a 256-color bitmap it gets dithered to 16-colors, doesn't look
|> too good.

I meant how good is it at what it does. Does it allocate colors
on a window basis or a system basis? Can it change existing
default colors? (last I checked, windows colors are globally defined,
and you can only add colors, not change extant colors)

Does it provide a mechanism to share the color table between apps
(probably does, this is easy) and does it handle different depths
well? Does it provide complete default palette for all depths (windows
palette for 256 colors contains only 20 colors :( ); does it provide
a mechanish whereby colors can match approximately, (but still
allocate new colors if there is nothing close enough?)

Et cetera. That's what I want to know.

|> >|> >>>  differing depths, and to change the depth on the fly. (Not, Not)
|> >|> >> 
|> >|> >> Multiple monitors is theoretically possible if hardware exists.
|> >|> 
|> >|> >But it doesn't. And can you change the depth on the fly? (Windows can't)
|> >|> 
|> >|> Let's leave the question unanswered until the hardware comes out.
|> 
|> >C'mon. The hardware is commonplace. All we are talking about is
|> >a video card and a monitor. All u need is more than one slot,
|> >so you can fit the cards in.
|> 
|> Something needs to be clarified: just because there're more than one
|> slot doesn't mean you can put anything into those slots.  The AT archi-
|> tecture has certain limitations, like no interrupt sharing, when video
|> card manufacturers have those issues resolved we can talk software.

(ahem) Ok:

All u need is more than one slot that CAN support video cards. Can
microchannel or EISA do this at least?

I KNOW it can be done, it IS done in at least one debugger (Microsofts?)

|> >I dont think windows OR OS/2 can use such a setup tho.
|> 
|> Currently they can't, but not because of any inherent limitations on the
|> part of Windows GDI or OS/2 PM, they're both Device Independent Graphics
|> systems, to add new features you just replace the graphics library, like
|> you replace your 8-bit color QuickDraw with 32-bit color QuickDraw, it
|> makes no sense to support something that isn't there, no?  That's why I
|> say it's theoretically possible.

Well, it does imply a problem. Macintosh apps need to be away that they
could run on multiple depths, because it means windows could be part
one depth and part annother (!); This means drawing carefully
or special casing in odd ways. It can be done (and is done) but if you 
dont try to do it, it can be messy. If you impose a new library
in windows or os/2, the old apps wont know about it.

|> >[deletia- Human Interface Guidelines/CUA '92]
|> >|> >>>* Support for the localization of Sorting order, Data and Time formats,
|> >|> >>>  currency, measurement, calenders and numbers (Not, Not)
|> >|> >> 
|> >|> >> Windows yes, OS/2 yes.
|> >|> 
|> >|> >Perhaps I missed some of these.
|> >|>
|> >|> I know in WPS you can sort the icons of a folder in name/size/date/etc
|> >|> order, also you can setup the date/time/currency formats.
|> 
|> >That's not what he meant. The MacOS provides library routines to
|> >format numbers and dates, and compare strings. These routines
|> >are sensitive to various non-English punctiation marks and other
|> >fun things. (ae blended together, etc) When moved to annother country,
|> >a Mac can be localized so that it follows the comparison conventions
|> >for that country. The upshot is everything sorts right.
|> 
|> I'm not sure about this part, but I can't figure out why this is
|> important.

Apple likes selling Computers outside the U.S.A. that's all.

[deletia- MPC]
|> >|> 
|> >|> Specific hardware?  Not necessarily, you can run multimedia apps with
|> >|> existing hardware, even digitized sound from the internal speaker/
|> >|> beeper.  But QuickTime also needs specific hardware, for starters, you
|> >|> need a Mac, ;-) also you need the ROMs with 32-bit QuickDraw in them.
|> >|> Right?
|> 
|> >:)
|> 
|> >Not quite right, but close. MPC requires a CD-ROM and a 386, last time
|> >I checked.
|> 
|> Yes, but the multimedia features of Windows are a subset of the MPC
|> spec, to get full certification you need a CD-ROM and other hardware 
|> stuff.

Just what ARE they then?

|> >|> I don't know why you would think the multimedia standards of Windows and
|> >|> OS/2 are incomplete, specific examples?
|> 
|> >I dont think they are incomplete. But they do cost extra, and require
|> >special hardware. (well, the Windows one does, I dunno 'bout OS/2)
|> 
|> Well if you don't already have the hardware for digital sound, of course
|> it's going to cost you extra, just like it's going to cost you extra for
|> MIDI features if you don't already have MIDI hardware.

Most indeedly.
Don't forget that CD-Rom.

|> >|> I have a little file here that documents certain parts of the multi-
|> >|> media standard, some excerpts from the forward and table of contents:
|> >|> 
|> >[deltia- big nasty excerpt]
|> >|> 
|> >|> If you want I can send the file to you (all 260K of it), although I
|> >|> doubt you'd be interested.
|> 
|> >So where's the animation w/ sound format?
|> 
|> Good point, they talked a lot about MIDI and waveform audio stuff, but
|> animation is only mentioned sparsely, one gets the feeling that
|> animation is not what they try to emphasize, the closest thing they have
|> are some animation device definition and a set of command strings
|> defined for that device, like open/close/play/pause.  There's no
|> standard file format defined for animation like there is for MIDI and
|> digital audio.  Perhaps Microsoft's idea of "multimedia" is different
|> from others?

Apparently. This spec IS incomplete then. Imho.

|> >|> >doesn't, although it fully supports additional hardware. 
|> >|> 
|> >|> And so does Windows and MMPM (Multimedia PM), why is it considered an
|> >|> avdvantage of QuickTime when it supports additional hardware and a
|> >|> disadvantage of Windows and OS/2 when they can do the same?
|> 
|> >They REQUIRE additional hardware. (according to what I've read);
|> >That's the problem.
|> 
|> They only require additional hardware if the hardware is not already
|> present,

Wha... you mean it can't SYNTHESIZE the hardware for you, like
on star trek? :)

Sorry, but even if the hardware is there, it still REQUIRES it.
Its requirements are satisfied, but they exist.

|> some companies sell "multimedia workstations" which have all
|> the hardware builtin, Tandy and a few others.

Apple also. Its called a "macintosh". :)

[Im sorry, I just had to say that. I do know htat not all macintoshes
can run Quicktime, so its not entirely accurate to say that.
But its too late, I did.]

|>  I know I'm just splitting
|> hair here,

I wouldn't say that. Id call those valid points.

|> what it boils down to is that some standard hardware on the
|> Mac is not generally present on PCs, like digital audio, you can buy
|> them seperately and have them supported under Windows because of its
|> device independent nature.

:) But it still has stiffer requirements (CD-ROM, can't forget that, nope..
386, gotta have one... :)

[deletia- color picker, slot config]

|> >If you like. I was just babbling myself. (didn't you notice? :)
|> 
|> Well I kind of have a faint idea.  ;-)

<grin>

|> -- Nan

-- 
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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