HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [news.admin, et al.]  Re: Articles violatating newgroups charter
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:00:45 GMT


From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups,news.misc
Subject:  Re: Articles violatating newgroups charter
Date: 17 Jul 92 19:51:55 GMT

Written in article <1992Jul13.223839.10459@opencon.com>
 by news@opencon.com (News Admin):

: As a reader of newsgroups, and as a administrator, few newsgroup violate
: their Charter, for example soc.culture.indian, inclosed is the article.
: Is there a way news administrators, especially in the universities, admin
: to put up statements saying not to post any FLAMES, and if they see any
: to warn the students/users/employees,etc. of such behavior.

: I thought, that
: as educated (technical) people, on the net we would know better??

HAH!

: When a newsgroup is created it has a purpose, i.e., it's charter.  If people
: violate the charter, shouldn't something be done buy the "news" administrators,
: even though the "group" by itself is unadministrated.

Of course, you CAN do something about it.  You have every right, as the
administrator, representing the owner of the machine, to make certain
restrictions.  Having Freedom of Speech doesn't obligate anyone to Provide
the Soap Box.  But it won't do you a whole lot of good in the long run.

Issues of free speech aside, there's really little you can do about it,
except post occasional friendly reminders.

If people choose to ignore your reminders, what can you do?  If, as the
administrator, you manage to "kill-file" anything coming into or going
out of your site, folks will only manage to find other sites, or
sneakier ways of slipping past your kill file algorithms.  It's more
trouble, but if they really want to spew hatred, they'll find a way.

You might as well try to out-law cross-burning on the private property
of burner.  Sure it's disgusting, but unless you want to fine him for
air pollution, there's nothing you can do.  So long as he's not burning
the cross on someone else's property, it's legal, as it should be.

If you pass a law against it, or try to force it to stop, they'll only 
put up a full-size picture of a burning cross.  Not quite the same
impact, but it gets the point across.  Forbidding that, they'll send
hate-mail to select groups through the postal service.  In other words,
you can't stop them from hating somebody by stopping them from express- 
ing their hatred.  They'll simply find other, possibly more insidious,
methods of expression.

My point is that there really nothing you can or should do about it.
Just post reminders now and then, send e-mail now and then, and hope for
the best.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility.  
And vice versa.
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship,alt.sex,tor.general
Subject: Re: Surprise.  You've made the evening news again.
Date: 25 Jul 92 09:30:30 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <TT.92Jul15084915@tarzan.jyu.fi> tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul13.073249.28035@deeptht.armory.com> rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>
>>In fact, I, like amnesty international and other such groups adhere to
>>a rather strict interpretation of human rights. Any one who gets in
>>the way of human rights, most especially the right to say ANYTHING
>>should be taken out and shot.
>
>I feel compelled to point out that Amnesty International certainly
>wouldn't support that last statement.  They (and I) think that
>being shot somehow violates one's human rights.
>Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
----------------------------
Hell yes it violates their rights, else what's the point. I think that
Saddam Hussein has violated so many people's human rights that he
deserves to be flayed and quartered on international TV. And I hope we
get the chance. Also, though I admit to intentional, nay terminal
cuteness, the juxtaposition of my two sentences was supposed to bait
you into defending Amnesty International. That doesn't mean I need to.
I support AI when they help good people, and I would oppose them if
they helped bad people. A bad person is one who has killed thousands
or millions for no good reason. (Yes, there might be a good reason,
recall the Nazi's). 

I do rather hope that we have the good sense to destroy the personal
bodies of the ruling council of Iraq this time, and that we can be
even more precise in our air war. If we had wanted Saddam Hussein, I
think we could have had him before. It was a reasonable idea not to
martyr him last time and leave him stewing, but he is playing tricks
with his nuclear program again and the location of his latest chinese
acqisition, more scud's. I think it is time to declare him an
international terrorist and renounce his human rights formally.
- Steve Walz
Xref: sparky alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:2424 alt.censorship:6406 alt.sex:25390 tor.general:1016
From: evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: [alt.censorship]  Penn State CENSORS my usenet!
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:49:58 GMT
Organization: Aston University

kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
: 
: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:59:56 EDT
: From: The Velcro-Man! <DED110@psuvm.psu.edu>
: Message-ID: <92204.205956DED110@psuvm.psu.edu>
: Newsgroups: alt.censorship
: Subject:  Penn State CENSORS my usenet!
: 
:      The admin's refuse to carry gropus that they don't want to.  Simple as
: that.  Not only will they not carry such disk-hogs as alt.binaries.erotica
: etc. but will not even carry alt.flame.abortion!  Why?  Because they say so!
: Well I for one am not taking this crap.  I am embarking on the uncharted and

Try looking on alt.internet.services
A list is posted there frequently, and you just might find a few things on
it interesting.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Evans                                   |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 565 1979 (Home)                     |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office)             |
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: User services was: Re: putting lyrics to "Cop Killer" in .plan file
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:33:18 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: emv@msen.com's message of 21 Jul 1992 20:12:23 -0400

In article <14i95lINNdmu@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>The whole question of what services a user without any special priveleges
>is allowed to provide to the rest of the internet is a tough one.
>Consider that e.g. an unprivelged user can run a WAIS server, a gopher
>server, and thus allow some amount of access to whatever files are on
>the system (good, bad, useful or "obscene").  The finger .plan file
>is a very small piece of what all else people might do if they were
>sufficiently motivated and skillful.

Funny you should mention that. We just drafted a rough policy file,
adn one thing we put in is that providing public services is the
responsibility of the administrators and must be approved by us.
 This is 95% for practical reasons; our particular site is very
starved for resources, in particular network load. Making sure that
resources are reserved for their intended purpose is part of our job.
"General interesting exploration" is one intended purpose of the
system, but coursework , faculty research, and systems work all
outrank it. 

Besides, I may be showing my ignorance here, but I don't think an
unprivileged user can offer wais or gopher access offsite....
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship,alt.sex,tor.general
From: brian@bkj386.uucp (Brian Jenkins)
Subject: Re: Surprise.  You've made the evening news again.
Reply-To: brian@bkj386.UUCP (Brian Jenkins)
Organization: /etc/local/news/organization
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 06:26:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul18.141212.27368@deeptht.armory.com> rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>>
>>True.  I think you should round up all those guys in the world that
>>you disagree with and stick them in concentration....oops...prisons
>>or military stockades (half a :)).
>-------------------------
>No, you idiot, people who kill other people and import cocaine, and
>who rule fascistically without mandate. I have little interest in
>making the world that much less interesting by jailing those I
>disagree with.

Sorry I missed the original reply to my response.  But I
gather that it takes much this vein.

I guess as the idiot I am that the proposal above is to
arrest most of the military and the CIA involved in South
East Asia as not only did they support a bloody minded,
dictatorship in Vietnam, but the dealt almost exclusively
with the heroin drug lords in Cambodia, Laos and Thailand
to attempt to control the activities of the  natives to the
area.  I gather a certain western nation provided military
cover to these barons to get their drugs out through
"hostile territory" -- often via the support of corrupt
Vietnamese generals, now living comfortably in the US.

I do not know if saturation bombing and free fire zones
would count as human rights violations but I would guess
so.  Definitely a violation of the Geneva convention.
As is systematically pushing the enemy from helicopters
and drowning them in buckets of water.  Or caging them
in small cages for years.

I think that also it is imperative that you start
proceedings against US government officials who supported
and ran the particular  drug baron that you are so upset
with in Panama.  Can you run for president from jail?

Would it not be nice if the world was so perfect?  But the
stockades would be mighty crowded.  I would settle for a
little civilization.





-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
from the basement of               brian@bkj386.uucp
Brian Jenkins             
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: putting lyrics to "Cop Killer" in .plan file
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:13:11 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <14i95lINNdmu@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:

>: should be able to use finger without getting any sort of shock. On my
>: site, I would ask you to replace that quote with a pointer to a
>: publicly readable file, if you want to distribute a potentially
>: offensive message. That way, you are free to say whatever you like,
>: and users are free to CHOOSE to hear it or not.

>Consider that e.g. an unprivelged user can run a WAIS server, a gopher
>server, and thus allow some amount of access to whatever files are on
>the system (good, bad, useful or "obscene").  The finger .plan file

Personally, I think our site is taking a slightly different approach.
As I mentionned above, we are not in the business of denying anyone
access to anything. However, my own feeling is that potentially
offensive materials should be available on a *request* basis. The user
should have to type a file name, run a viewer, or whatever. Doing a
finger, or an ls, or casually glancing around a room full of
terminals, or reading a file identified as technical help, should not
result in a display of offensive stuff. 
   Sort of a "keep it in a plain brown wrapper" philosophy, I guess!

Disclaimer: I think this is my own personal philosophy.  We've never
had a test case. There *is* pressure at our site to restrict
non-academic uses of the computer, based solely on processor overload
and disk space crunch (four years of consecutive CUTS to the budget..)


--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Xref: sparky alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:2406 alt.censorship:6322 alt.sex:25194 tor.general:1007
From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship,alt.sex,tor.general
Subject: Re: Surprise.  You've made the evening news again.
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:26:32 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <1992Jul24.143852.7441@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul18.141212.27368@deeptht.armory.com> rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>>>
>>>True.  I think you should round up all those guys in the world that
>>>you disagree with and stick them in concentration....oops...prisons
>>>or military stockades (half a :)).
>>-------------------------
>>No, you idiot, people who kill other people and import cocaine, and
>>who rule fascistically without mandate. I have little interest in
>>making the world that much less interesting by jailing those I
>>disagree with.
>
>Does putting people who kill people and traffic cocaine in jail mean we
>will get to jail George Bush for his actions as director of the CIA?
>Or was the CIA only trafficking in heroin when George was director?
-------------------------
Who cares, somebody besides me shoot him too. I've already shot enough
people this week. Do I have to do all the work? :)
-RSW
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [news.admin, et al.]  Re: Articles violatating newgroups charter
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:59:53 GMT


Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups,news.misc
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject:  Re: Articles violatating newgroups charter
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 18:36:48 GMT

Well, just my 2-bits worth, but I use a lot of unmoderated newsgroups and
have noticed that they seem to be self-regulating.  That is, flamers
who get out of line as bad as the one mentioned in soc.culture.indian
usually get flamed to death in retaliation until everyone gets tired of
the whole thing and quits.  Other times, people seem to just ignore the
phreek and since he didn't get any attention, he doesn't post much if
any anymore.  Notice that the quicker result is ignoring the fool, not
retaliating to him.  Bitching is no fun if nobody bitches back!  It doesn't
really hurt anybody if a few fanatics exist in different places and that
they choose to limit their lives to unhappy subhuman levels by flaming 
others and writing posts like the guy already mentioned did.  Just ignore
him and get on with life and assume that you are smarter than he is...after
all, it's a safe assumption, right?  Live and let live and ignore the
phreeks!

BD



-- 
===========================================================================
| Brian Dixon              | "Good judgement comes from experience...     |
| dixon@spot.colorado.edu  |    and experience comes from bad judgement!" |
===========================================================================
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: weisstr%lavc3.dnet@smithkline.com (Terry Weiss)
Subject: Re: Surprise. You've made the evening news again.
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:59:22 GMT


>>Well, I'm all for dealing harshly with murderers and politicians who
>>don't properly represent, but why did he lump cocaine importers in
>>with those? Geez, importing cocaine is no worse than brewing beer.
>>You get bags of cocaine and take them from point A to point B. No
>>one's rights get trampled by that. Let's not compare them to murderers
>>and crooked politicians.
>>
>>Sean Casey
>----------------------------------
>My god, you're totally right, Sean, I can't imagine what came over me.
>I enjoyed Noriega getting his because he's such a fascist little
>bastard, but I think we should legalize cocaine. That would take all
>the crime and danger out of it, not to mention the profit. What would
>the poor compasinos do then? I completely lost my head for a minute.
>We had a drive-by shooting on the next block the other day over crack,
>so I simply went into react mode instead of logic mode. Haven't done
>that in ages. My apologies.
>- Steve Walz

As usual, Steve, your sarcasm skews the issue. People don't kill each 
other for drugs, they kill each other for money. The issue is freedom-
what I want to do with my body is up to me, if it involves ONLY my body.
Any paternilistic system, that seeks to regulate your rights under the
assumption that they know better creates that sort of violence because it
inherently is violent in that it violates a person's rights and sensibilties.
You don't escape the violence by making the drugs illegal (the evidence for
that is any urban area), or even by eliminating the drugs altogether by a 
"war on drugs". Don't be fooled, it's smoke; drugs were never the issue - 
poverty, empowerment, and truth are.


	-Terry

Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject: Re: User services 
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:14:28 GMT

morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:
}The paragraph marked with "*" has been proposed as a compromise.  If
}it's 11:30 pm and there are only 5 people logged in, I don't think I'll
}have a problem with MUD/IRC/whatever usage.  During working hours, which
}I'll probably set as 0800-2200, I have to preserve the system for the
}(rather heavy) academic users.
}
}I'm writing the code to implement these restrictions; the algorithm looks
}something like this:
}
}	if(time > 2200 and time < 0700)  /* limit subject to tuning */
}		AND if(users logged in < 30)  /* subject to tuning */
}			AND if(recreational users < 15) /* subject to tuning */
}				allow access to game/MUD/IRC/whatever
}
}Comments?

    Another common methodology is to use the load average (easier to
    determine than `recreation_users').  It has the advantage of being
    more automatic -- for example, if your finals week load lasts until
    4 am, or if it's between semesters and hardly anybody is using the
    system at 6 pm.

John
-- 
John Hascall                                       ``Live with it pink-boy!''
Project Vincent                                                              
Iowa State University Computation Center                     john@iastate.edu
Ames, IA  50011                                      515/294-9551 [fax -1717]
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: rsherme@nswc-wo.navy.mil (Russel Shermer)
Newsgroups: alt.grad-student.tenured,sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Computational Physics Graduate Work
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:26:28 GMT
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center - White Oak

My PhD in physics involved mostly theory and computation.  At the University of
Illinios at Urbana Champaign there are a lot of physicists who do computations
for research.  I do not know of any Computer Scientists who do research related
to physics.  The physicists are using computation as a tool and for the most part
are not developing new ideas in computation.  The Engineers seem to be the real
computational pros--taking the time to learn sophisticated computational
techniques.  Most of the fluid dynamics computations (for example) are being done
in thier departments.

In other words, it depends on how well you want to "toe the line".  It is easy
to get a degree in physics that involves a substantial amount of computational
work and code writing.  You will find it difficult to build a research problem
in physics that also poses interesting questions in CS.  It's not impossible,
just difficult.  I believe you will have a very tough time getting a CS degree 
with any substantial physics in it.

Some examples of physics programs involving heavy computation: QCD calculations
(ie, computing the masses of particles via lattice guage theories), Chaos and
non-linear dynamics (you can lean into math pretty hard in this field), Solid 
State structure calculations (trying to find configurations producing materials
with superior properties).

Having a strong computational background could give you a nice advantage in
graduate school in physics.  I and most of my colleages spent (lost) about
a year just getting up to speed with learning unix, a graphics lib, LaTeX, and
some basic computation techniques.  You on the other hand, could concievably 
get out in what used to be the usual four years.

	---Russ Shermer
Newsgroups: alt.grad-student.tenured,sci.research.careers
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Subject: Re: No more short stories from rauser@sfu.ca
Organization: The Institute for Happier Military Justice with Shorter Trials
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:55:58 GMT

In article <rauser.712457780@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>   Congratulations, Dave! You must be very proud of this accomplishment...
>especially how you're bragging about it to everyone on the group. 
>Now tell me something...are you going to lodge a complaint about _this_
>posting as well?

I have a suggestion.  EMail to me...

		t-gerldk@microsoft.com

a 'yea' or a 'nay' answer to the following questions.  In a week or so, I'll
print the results (names withheld of course).  I'm curious to see just what kind
of numbers result with respect to how opinions in the group are divided.  I'm
not planning to use this stuff to any particularly malevolent end, so don't
worry.

THE QUESTIONS:
--------------

Do you enjoy Richard Rauser's stories and/or support his right to post them
to this group?

Do you agree with the action taken (communication with the sysadmins of 
Rauser's site) against Rauser for his postings of the stories to this group?

Would you object strongly to future postings of Rauser's work to this group?



If you wish to elaborate any answers beyond 'yes' or 'no,' feel free.  Just
make sure that the bottom line is clear for summarization purposes.

Have a happy day, ripe with good news.  I didn't... and my live is a living
malestrom of horror at the moment, but since this is alt.good.news I'm not
going to get into anymore of that...



-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
From: danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR])
Newsgroups: alt.good.news
Subject: Re: More Good News
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:22:52 GMT
Organization: Bop-bop-da-loo-bop
NNTP-Posting-Host: earlybird
Keywords: small world

   Gerry Sparaco writes:
   
 	I have only five more weeks till I begin studing at the Gettysburg 
 Lutheran Theological Seminary.  Till then, I will spend two weeks in 
 Maryland with friends, and my fiancee will be coming back from Russia in 
 three weeks.  

Small world, ain't it?

I have about 9 weeks before I begin studying at the 
University of Chicago Divinity School. Till then I will work
my butt off in Mountain View, CA trying to earn enough money
to make it happen. I will also be "leaving behind" (as she
puts it), my girlfriend.

Still, I feel like it is "a chance of a lifetime" so to speak,
so although I have mixed feelings, I'm pretty excited about
going. It even makes the hour-plus commute worthwhile  ;-)

Dano

Newsgroups: alt.good.news
From: plkp@wam.umd.edu (Kathleen F. Powers)
Subject: Re: No more short stories from rauser@sfu.ca
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:53:19 GMT

Xref: sparky alt.good.news:718 alt.censorship:6519 alt.prose.d:150