From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Funny
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:08:21 GMT
	<6111.2acc6999@hayes.com> <1992Oct03.233823.24925@NeoSoft.com>
	<6145.2ad1dc34@hayes.com> <strobl.718461278@gmd.de>
	<6170.2ad5a35b@hayes.com> <TOMSTER.92Oct9210910@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central

Bill> == bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
TRD>  == Thomas Richard Dibble <tomster@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> 

[Hey, could you start editing your quoted text?  We don't need quoted
.signatures, for example...and speaking of signatures, yours is more
than a bit overlarge.  Four lines, please.]

 TRD> ???
 TRD> If you are openning a file, you mean, you also want to be able to
 TRD> type into the spreadsheet simultaneously?  That seems rather
 TRD> silly.  Of course it is the same application.  It is quite
 TRD> apparent, however, no matter how dense the user is, that it is a
 TRD> different action.

If I am opening a file, and I just did a "copy" from the spreadsheet
with a filename, I want to be able to use the SAME shortcut for paste I
would use if I were pasting into the spreadsheet.  Is that too much to ask?

 TRD> Which was exactly *his* point.  He doesn't think 'Alt-<EP>'.  He doesn't
 TRD> think at all, any more than you think 'Pull down Edit, click on Paste'.
 TRD> It is much more natural than that.

Right, then he (unthinkingly) expects Alt-<EP> to paste.  Until he gets
to a dialog box, and it doesn't paste.

 TRD> I don't understand this fixation with the dialog box.  Well, Bill,
 TRD> since *you* don't seem to know why it is so important to be able
 TRD> to access *all* the menu items from within a dialog box, maybe
 TRD> someone else can help you out.  Anyone?

But you can't access *all* the menu items.  You can't even access the
shortcuts for cut/copy/paste.

 Bill> Except they don't work. So you learn them one way, then you have to go
 Bill> back and learn the REAL shortcuts.

 TRD> Huh?  The 'real' shortcuts?

The ones that work in the dialog boxes as well as in the application's
document windows.

 TRD> This fixation, and still no explanation of what you mean ...

He explained it quite well.

\begin{gratuitousflame}
Of course, that's from my point of view.  I can also edit quoted text,
which you seem to have a problem doing.  Does Windows rot the brain?
(Rhetorical question; it sure appears to.)
\end{gratuitousflame}

 TRD> If you are unsure, you start to read them, again. But are you able
 TRD> to remember the position of a submenu entry (i.e. third entry,
 TRD> fourth choice) in a discussion?

 Bill> Actually, I usually can. But that's just me. 

 TRD> Because you are memorizing names rather than actions.

Names rather than actions?  No, he's associating *location* with action.
Big difference.  Of course, on Windows you have to associate names with
actions, since the Alt-key "shortcuts" are based on name, not action.

 TRD> Honestly, Bill.  You are pushing this dialog box thing way too
 TRD> far.  If you can't explain *exactly* what you mean by it, I
 TRD> suggest you drop it.  I would rather you explain yourself, because
 TRD> it sounds like it'll be a good one ...

He has explained himself quite well.  I've rephrased his point, again,
for your edification.
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy