HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Philip Stephens)
Subject: Re: time flow
Organization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:53:40 GMT

Michael Turner writes:

>My vague recollection from LaBerge's books is that dream-time and real-time
>are pretty well correlated.  But my personal *experience* is that those
>nodding- off-in-class dreams can be pretty epic compared to the amount of
>time I was asleep.  I don't know if anyone has studied this often-noted
>discrepancy.

  It's been a long time since I've read LaBerge, but wasn't their
dream-time experiments based upon the passage of time experienced in
*lucid* dreams?  
  I guess since normal dreams are not so easily remembered, it may be that
they only seem longer than they are.  But I've often woken up from a short
nap with the memory of a dream that seemed to have gone on for ages.
  Actually, as an aside, psychological time can often seem to be different
to real time.  You know the experience: time goes faster when you're
reading than when you're sitting quietly doing nothing.  Perhaps dreams are
the same.

-- 
| Philip Stephens, Systems Programmer. | %%%%  %     Labtam Australia Pty Ltd |
| Address:  43 Malcolm Road, Braeside, |   % % % %     "Applied Ingenuity"    |
|           Victoria, 3195, AUSTRALIA. |  %  % %  %  We make the fastest RISC |
| Internet: philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au | %%%%% %%%%% X terminals in the world | 
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: time flow
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:10:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.152645.25572@mlb.semi.harris.com> bwm@mongoose.ess.harris.com (Bruce McIntosh) writes:
>Does anyone have observations on how the flow of time in dreams compares to
>real time? It would seem from my own experience that quite a bit can happen
>in a dream that is not very long in realtime. Does lucidity have any impact
>on this? Just curios. Thankyou.

In article <1993Jan22.203025.14742@tcsi.com> miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:
>My vague recollection from LaBerge's books is that dream-time and real-time
>are pretty well correlated.  But my personal *experience* is that those
>nodding- off-in-class dreams can be pretty epic compared to the amount of
>time I was asleep.  I don't know if anyone has studied this often-noted
>discrepancy.

In article <1993Jan25.152921.19477@ultb.isc.rit.edu> mdh0957@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Haupert) writes:
>I agree.  I enjoy a mid-afternoon quite often and regularly dream of a
>sequence of events that would take multiple hours to complete in
>reality.  Most of the gaps are filled in by interpolation (ie. car
>rides, distant trips, etc...) yet there is too much to fit in a mere
>45min of napping.

I think that studying dream-time flow in lucid subjects might bias the
results a lot.  Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to get good dream-chronology
correlates otherwise.  You can match up the subjective accounts against
things like body motion, talking in your sleep, eye-movement, etc., but
maybe this doesn't work all the time.

One theory I've had about this is that dreams are something you can have
while awake, though you won't be very aware of them.  I've read that people
go through 30-minute and 90-minute cycles during waking during which they
are alternately sleepier and more aware.  If you can have brief moments
of wakefulness during sleep that you don't remember, why not brief moments
of dreaming during waking?  The apparently-long dream might be a
recollection of many temporally-scattered-but-narratively-sequential
dreamlets that accumulate during your sleepy moments, but that only
worm their way to full consciousness during brief naps.  (It seems like
it's mostly in naps that people experience this time-dilation effect.)
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
From: despair@netcom.com (Scott Hanson)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Looking in the mirror in my dream
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:45:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <93024.125516KMICHEL@MIAMIU.BITNET> <KMICHEL@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>I noticed this big mirror on the
>wall in my bedroom, and looked into it, excited at the prospect of seeing
>what I looked like when I was in this dream state.  But when I tried to
>look directly into my eyes in the mirror, they rolled backward into my
>head or went "cross-eyed."  I could not directly meet my gaze.

Do you mean the eyes in the mirror moved or your eyes moved?  It is common
for me to have uncooperative eyes quite often in dreams.  Uncontrollable
blinking, extreme photosensitivity, crossing, lack of focusing, &c.  Always
thought it was my waking photophobia and early use of hard contact lenses.


-- 
Scott Hanson		This has been a recording.
despair@netcom.com
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: S.S Dreamers
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:51:57 GMT
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Sun 25 Jan 93 10:19, Tmcfarla@fraser.sfu.ca (tara Mcfarl
wrote:

 TM> I was alos wondering if someone could email me with the results as
 TM> well.

I came into this one a bit late to make a concerted effort to get there,
but if you get the results, could you let me know.  Please...

cheers.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

===========================================================================
"Now all the corpses that litter that battlefield can lie there, safe in
the knowledge that they snuffed it under a flag of peace, and can now
happily    decompose in a land of freedom!" - Lister                       
Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.out-of-body
From: pete@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Peter Alexander Merel)
Subject: Dream Experiment '93
Keywords: Dream'92 Dream'93
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:28:59 GMT

gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>Well, I nearly made it to the ship, but never actually got there.  I
>did have a few dreams about SHIPS, but not THE ship...

Apologies, I'm new here and don't know the exact nature of the experiment.
I infer that someone described some sort of ship, and that everyone tried
to dream themselves there to see if it was somehow objectively out there
in some sort of collective dreamlands; I'd like to know the exact details.

I do have a number of repeating locations for dreams - a big hotel, a
bookstore, my old university and the house I grew up in, greatly extended.
I've only recently acheived lucidity, but it occurs to me that if there is
some objective reality to the dreamlands then the easiest landmarks to find
would be those that have been written about by famous dreamers.

The fellow that comes to mind is Howard Phillips Lovecraft, an american
horror writer from the turn of the century who developed an extensive 
dreamlands mythos - "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath", "Celephais", "The
Silver Key", "Through the Gates of the Silver Key", "The White Ship", and
"The Strange High House in the Mist" are all stories that should interest
readers of this group.

I propose that we all try the following this year - if it works out it should
prove extremely interesting. Purchase a volume of HPL's dream stories - they've
been popularised over the last few years by the fantasy role-playing community,
and shouldn't be hard to find. Read them all - they should give you some
idea of the sort of dreamscape to look for.

Seek out the great dream palace of Celephais, and seek an audience with the
immortal dreamer Kuranes, king of that place. There are some nasty locations 
and creatures in HPL's dreamlands, but Celephais and Kuranes should be 
accessible and agreeable. Take something tangible, something you know well,
and ask Kuranes to accept that object as a gift.

Now ask him what the last gift he received from a mortal dreamer was, and ask
for the name of that dreamer. When you awake, post a description of that item
and the name of its presenter - but of course don't reveal the nature of your
own gift, or other participants will not be able to continue the experiment.
Don't even hint.

Celephais should be easy enough to find - folks have been dreaming of it for 
over fifty years. And the fact that you give your gift _before_ getting the
details of the previous gift should ensure that Kuranes really has accepted
your gift before giving the details - that the dream didn't short out in some
ill defined way. Should be very interesting indeed, and fun too.

-- 
Internet: pete@extro.su.oz.au          |         Accept Everything.            |
UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!extro!pete |         Reject Nothing.               |
From: s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Enya (was Re: Dream Music)
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:47:16 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft math/inf, Uni Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: irau33.ira.uka.de

In article <jwc2001-260193182533@m248-36.bgsu.edu> jwc2001@andy.bgsu.edu (J Cannon) writes:
> Enya's music seems to work for me, as well as several other "New Age" genre
> artists, especially Liz Story's "Speechless" album, to produce lucid
> dreams.  I discovered the technique that worked for me years ago in high
> school.  The music acts as something to concentrate on while falling
> asleep.  Therefore, IMO, the music should be familiar, soft, and flowing,
> not jarring or with abrupt changes in tempo or loudness.  The volume should
> be adjusted so that it is too loud to completely ignore but not so loud it
> keeps you awake.  

I have used this technique too.

There is a certain volume level that works best. For me, I know it
exactly and I think the tolerance is rather low.

About the kind of music, I disagree. This seems to be a very
individual question. In the past I have used such things as Bach's
fugues, but also Beethoven symphonies and avant-garde disco sounds
which absolutely do not fit your description. Jazz, 40s to 60s style,
is also very good for me.

> I used to do this in the afternoons, after school or after exercising, so I
> would be relaxed.  It doesn't seem to work as well at night.  The effect is

For me too. The most astonishing fact for me has always been that 15
minutes of sleep during the day can give you as much rest as 5 hours,
if applied well, and music can very much help in that.

Olaf
-- 
| Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student  |   o     | uknf@dkauni2.bitnet | old address |
| univ. of karlsruhe - germany |  _>\ _  | s_titz@ira.uka.de   | is still    |
| +49-721-60439                | (_)<(_) | praetorius@irc      | valid       |
  "My heart is human - my blood is boiling - my brain IBM" - Mr. Roboto
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: time flow
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:01:23 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA

In article <1993Jan22.203025.14742@tcsi.com> miket@hermes.tcs.com
(Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:

   In article <1993Jan22.152645.25572@mlb.semi.harris.com>
   bwm@mongoose.ess.harris.com (Bruce McIntosh) writes: 
   >Does anyone have observations on how the flow of time in dreams
   >compares to real time? It would seem from my own experience that
   >quite a bit can happen in a dream that is not very long in
   >realtime. Does lucidity have any impact on this? Just curios.
   >Thankyou.

   My vague recollection from LaBerge's books is that dream-time and
   real-time are pretty well correlated.  But my personal *experience*
   is that those nodding- off-in-class dreams can be pretty epic
   compared to the amount of time I was asleep.  I don't know if
   anyone has studied this often-noted discrepancy.

LaBerge claims that long dreams are a result of the same kind of
mechanisms used in movies.  For what it is worth (perhaps nothing), in
hypnosis time can be compressed by a considerable factor.  Subjects
instructed to experience detailed hallucinations of tasks such as
counting and walking over a course could experience these events fully
in a fraction of "real time".  Whether this occurs in dreams, and
whether the lucid nature of LaBerge's dream experiments keeps this
from happening in his own experiments, is a subject of considerable
interest.  I have no idea how to go about designing an experiment to
determine if this happens.

For those interested: "Time Distortion in Hypnosis", by Milton
Erickson and Lynn Cooper.  I belive it is published by Irvington.  The
papers are reproduced in "The Collected Papers of Milton H. Erickson
on Hypnosis", volume II.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: mdh0957@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Haupert)
Subject: Re: time flow
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:29:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.203025.14742@tcsi.com> miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.152645.25572@mlb.semi.harris.com> bwm@mongoose.ess.harris.com (Bruce McIntosh) writes:
>>Does anyone have observations on how the flow of time in dreams compares to
>>real time? It would seem from my own experience that quite a bit can happen
>>in a dream that is not very long in realtime. Does lucidity have any impact
>>on this? Just curios. Thankyou.
>My vague recollection from LaBerge's books is that dream-time and real-time
>are pretty well correlated.  But my personal *experience* is that those
>nodding- off-in-class dreams can be pretty epic compared to the amount of
>time I was asleep.  I don't know if anyone has studied this often-noted
>discrepancy.

I agree.  I enjoy a mid-afternoon quite often and regularly dream of a
sequence of events that would take multiple hours to complete in
reality.  Most of the gaps are filled in by interpolation (ie. car
rides, distant trips, etc...) yet there is too much to fit in a mere
45min of napping.




-- 
mdmh von rit ( reality is what you make it )
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879)
Subject: Re: EXPERIMENT PROPOSAL
Keywords: DREAMS
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:34:57 GMT

>Proposal for another dream experiment:
>   Participants:
>   1) Attempt to dream about ELVIS.
>   2) If dreaming about Elvis, leave an object or objects with him.
>   3) Ask the King to show you other objects that people have left him.
>   4) E-mail the "third party"(unchosen as of yet), explaining what happened.
>   5) If you post your success, do NOT post the objects you saw or left!

This is quite brilliant.  I was going to propose a "character
summoning" experiment, where everyone calls upon a certain dream
character, and then talks to him/her over a period of a few dreams.
I've had some success with summoning dream characters, and I'd be
interested in seeing how others do when trying to do the same.  

In a research proposal I wrote for class, I couldn't decide if a
neutral character or a weird character would make more sense.  A
neutral character might be too boring to interact with, and a weird
character might be too strange to imagine.  But I think you've come
across with the best idea yet!  Everyone (I think) knows who Elvis
is...  I'm all for this experiment.   
 
Anybody else want in?

                                                  Nik




Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Subject: Re: Strange Masturbation Memory Dream
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:21:01 GMT

In article <43698@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs64wag@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Jeremy Friesner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan18.194912.2004@fuug.fi> an5938@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>>I am a male-to-female transsexual who had sex reassignment surgery long enough
>>ago that I have no conscious memory of what it physically felt like to have a
>>penis.  When I am awake, if I try to imagine having a penis again, I completely
>>fail (and, no, I do NOT want it back! this is just a thought experiment).
>
>and then later writes.... 
>
>>What kind of woman am I that I could have
>>a dream like that?!  And that it could affect me so! 
>
>I think you answered your own question in the first paragraph,
>there.  :-)
>
>Jeremy

First of all, <growl directed at Jeremy>  Well, I'll leave you alone,
since you put the smiley face in there...

2nd: <To the original poster, whose name does not appear>
It is not really so unusual to have very vivid dreams of things that you
no longer have conscious memory of.  A number of stimuli could have
triggered it: sights, sounds, odors that you encounter during the preceding
days that themselves may not register consciously (or you may notice the
stimuli but not make a conscious connection between it and your early
memory).  It does _not_ necessarily mean that you want to go back to the way 
you were at that time.  I don't know what you encountered recently
that triggered the memory/dream, but early sexual activity usually strongly
affects a person's subconscious, so that, combined with whatever caused
the dream in the first place, could easily have such an intense physical
effect.  (I usually wake up from sexual dreams panting and with my
heart-racing, and I have awoken to orgasms a couple of times. Maybe not
quite the same, but what you experienced is not totally unimaginable.)

I guess the conclusion is that I don't know why you had the dream, but
it's perfectly ok to have the dream, and the memories that caused it (if you 
were repressing it, I don't think there's any need to).  You're fine, exactly 
the way you are now, and if something is not right, whether it is
physical, emotional, or other, you can fix it, with others' help.  But having
a very vivid dream of the past does not necessarily indicate that there is
something wrong in the present.  If it recurrs, you may want to figure out
what is triggering it.  Even if it doesn't recur, you may want to try to
figure that out.  Just for your own sense of curiosity & well-being.

:)
Angela
 
-- 
**************************  angelai@wam.umd.edu  ****************************
From: weave@apache.dtcc.edu (Ken Weaverling)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Flying in Dream (power lines)...
Date: 24 Jan 1993 13:39:29 -0500
Organization: Delaware Technical & Community College
NNTP-Posting-Host: apache.dtcc.edu

I hate metoo postings but...

ME TOO!

I am always paranoid of avoiding power lines when I fly. I realise it
is a dream, but they often seem so realistic, that my subconscious 
must convince myself that maybe this is some alternate universe crap
and I shouldn't take the chance and come into contact with them...


-- 
Weave's 10/90 recipe for insanity: Take one programmer, divide into portions: 
10% programming consisting of equal parts in systems and applications plus
admin duties broken down into 20% for Unix, 5% PRIMOS, 10% hardware & network, 
35% DOS/Windows, 10% news, 5% postmaster, and 5% babysitting IRC kiddies.
From: nightsng@anarky.tch.org (Nightsong)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: sleeping WITHOUT dreams (help me!!)
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:09:00 GMT
Organization: The Canned Ham, San Jose, CA (408) 971-8530

00srmedam@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:

> hello everybody,
> 	Are there really any techniques to sleep without dreams. I dream all the
> time I sleep. Why I am telling like this I get into a dream even if I take a 
> minute nap. When I was younger I used get dreams but not often. But nowadays 
> reached a point that I am not  sleeping without a dream. After I wake up feel
> I am not at all relaxed. I tried to think nothing sometimes but that did not 
> . Please help out to sleep without dreams. I am from India. And most of the t
> dreams are mixed up with people around me and back home the places I see are 
> mixed up. I heard that there are techniques to get dreams which we like or in
> we feel like to be. Any of this sort will be helpful. 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Srinivasa-
> 
> email:  cnureddy@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
>  


Well I am not an expert on any of this whatsoever,
so do not consider my opinion AS expert, but I *DO*
know that dreams are necessary (and yes, at times 
similar to yours I feel like I have too many or too
many unenjoyable ones).  Usually what I do is before
I sleep I think about the fact that I will be 
dreaming, which gets my mind thinking it once  I am
asleep.  Once Iam asleep, it is easier to notice that
I am dreaming.  I do, and then I can usually change
the dream to how*I* want it to be..just by `focusing'
on a certain thought long enough..

-Nightsong
From: dbsbanka@solomon.technet.sg (Teo Pit Koon)
Subject: Re: Conscious decision in a dream ?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:14:00 GMT

Greetings and Peace :-)-

Nightsong (nightsng@anarky.tch.org) wrote:

>ACTUALLY, I have been quite unsure about reality for about half a year or 
>a little more now.  I have been going around with a very slight but very 
>unshakeable feeling that this is in fact NOT reality.  Usually, I talk to

	Which is, of course, true in a sense that THIS is not the ULTIMATE
REALITY.

>my brother about this, and he immediately tells me `You ALWAYS have this
>feeling!' so I seldom worry when I have it.  However, a couple months 
>ago, I, upon having a particularly bothersome dream, woke up and heard
>the front door open.  I knew it was my brother, as he had told me 
>earlier (before I went to sleep in fact) that he would be leaving the 
>house for awhile.  Sure enough, it was him.  Of course, I had that little
>unshakeable feeling about reality, and of course, I told him.  I had one
>of my typically long conversations on some of our typical topics, but 
>woke up in the middle of it, still having this feeling.  Now I am 
>utterly confused.

>More so than I had been.

>-Nightsong

	Hmmmm..... A very interesting and highly unusual situation. But
if I were you, I would most likely explore further into this state of
"uncertainty", despite the confusion, to try and expand awareness into
it, and see what comes out of it...

The star gazer ***
CC
From: despair@netcom.com (Scott Hanson)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Amphetamine interference with dreams
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:32:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Methamphetamine use has done two things to me.  The first is rem rebound,
occuring after 5-6 days without sleep.  It is quite interesting to use dream
logic, perception, and recall on real life.  I lost several friends and
the respect of many because of this.  Think of the possibilities.

The second effect is what I am curious about.  I sleep like a stain now.
People have attempted to wake me with NO SUCCESS.  Water, noise, nothing
works.  I have entered a half waking state where I am paralyzed several
times, never before has this happened to me.  My sleep is so deep I have
no recollection of dreams.  Only if I wake partially or fully and go back
to sleep can I remember them.

Can anyone offer related information on this?
-- 
Scott Hanson		This has been a recording.
despair@netcom.com
Xref: sparky alt.dreams:4835 alt.paranormal:2821
From: windsphire@wizard.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Dream Culture
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:57:55 MST

In article <1993Jan25.005656.14050@cgrg.ohio-state.edu>, demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  writes:

> Someone was asking about the culture in which lucid dreaming was practiced.
> I teach Psych 100 and the culture is the Senoi. What I can't remember is
> the name of the anthropologist who studied them.  

Kilton Stewart, if I remember correctly. I think his material was included
in a book entitled 'Pygmies and Dream Giants', chapter 9. That's all I can
remember. Good Luck.

			-Windsphire