HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: Cortez, Pizarro and Montesquieu
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 03:04:21 EST

In article <HISTORY%93012215115606@VM1.MCGILL.CA> Pierre Blackburn <LDAA@VM1.SI.USHERB.CA> writes:
>In the "Discours sur les motifs qui doivent nous encourager aux
>sciences", Montesquieu says that an important factor in the invaders
>(Cortez and Pizarro) success was that  the indigenous population
>thought they were kind of surnatural because of their appearance and
>technology. Is this a) false, b) partially true, c) true.
>
>The passage is "C'est que tout leur paraissait nouveau, un homme
>barbu, un cheval, une arme a feu, etait pour eux l'effet d'une
>puissance invisible, a laquelle ils se jugeaient incapables de
>resister. Le courage ne manqua jamais aux Americains, mais seulement
>l'esperance du succes".
>

Multiple choice...:-)

My feeling is that the societal structure of the Aztec and Inca civili-
zations made quick collapse possible. I disagree, because the Aztecs        
quickly overcame their awe of the Spaniards and attacked. The problem
here--and even more pronounced in Peru--was that the empire was so 
stratified, and contained so much structure, that cutting off the 
head (ie, Monteczuma or the Inca) immobilized the empires' ability to
counterattack. When you compare some of the tribes of the South 
American interior, which fought for decades after the area was           
"conquered" and had a decentralized leadership system, with the
two empires mentioned, I think we can discount the initial psycho-
logical effects Montesquieu describes.

Chris

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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:11:26 -0500
From:         wheelerc <32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: British Casualties WWI

British Embasy in D.C. (202) 462-1340
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:12:16 +0100
From:         Christopher Currie <ccurrie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: references on revisionism/historical method
Comments: To: HISTORY@ibm.gwdg.de

>
>
>
> I'm working on a section of my dissertation that involves historical revision-
> ism.  I've having trouble finding good sources on revisionism and would appre-
> ciate any references people can supply.  ALso, any good books on
 historiography
> out there?  What would you recommend?
>

What sort of revisionism?
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:30:40 -0500
From:         Donald Robert Shaffer <dshaffer@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Large lecture sections
Comments: To: history@rutvm1.bitnet

At the University of Maryland, College Park the philosophy is that large
sections should be avoided.  The largest lecture classes run about 250
students, with discussion sections being handled by three T.A.s (I am in
one of those types of sections as a T.A. this semester).  While I realize
that smaller lecture sections are not always possible in colleges and
universities beset by stagnate or decreasing budgets, this ideal should
be maintained whenever possible.  While scantrons or computer-graded
multiple choice exams allow one to administer a test to very large numbers
of students, multiple choice is a poor format for challenging students
to think critically or evaluate higher order thought.

Don Shaffer
University of Maryland, College Park
dshaffer@wam.umd.edu
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From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Subject: Re: Angelou/Santayana
Summary: historiographical note
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:29:14 GMT

In article <HISTORY%93012517163977@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> DXZ102@PSUVM.BITNET writes:

>I cited no such television shows.   I hate that medium with a passion!!!

Well, that's a noble sentiment, but it raises some questions.  The poem
has been mentioned rather a lot on several USENET groups I read, and the
pattern of this mention has been (commonly) for someone with an admiring
memory of the recitation as covered on TV asking for the text.  I have
seen TWO differening texts posted, one as in the New York Times of the
next day (which obviously stands as the "official" version :-)) and one
given without breaking into lines -- and omitting some words (notably,
"gay") in the list, which I have seen attributed to a wire service.  It
is also fairly clear that protesters about the omission in the latter
case sometimes did so from memory as "eyewitnesses."

There are serious problems about how what is NOT seen modifies the effect
of this kind of witness -- and other problems about fabricated events, as
in "reconstructions" which may convince people they have seen what they
have not.  But surely, the national broadcast of a public event such as
the inauguration does count as a reliable testimony for what it shows, if
not for context or omissions?
-- 
Michael L. Siemon	"We honour founders of these starving cities
mls@panix.com		 Whose honour is the image of our sorrow ...
			 They built by rivers and at night the water
			 Running past the windows comforted their sorrow."
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: truth in history (students) --or-- the best kind of exam.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:25:44 GMT

am i the only one here who never learned about the battle of hastings?

if i had been given the multiple choice question, i would have
certainly guessed wrong as the odds were against me (1/4).  had it
been an essay/short answer, i would have been able to make some sense
of an answer.

the professor who i consider to nothing less than a Prince among
scholars gave questions like (this is a real example from a mid-term
on hellenistic greece):

	support and/or criticize one of the following statements:

	1. by defeating sparta at leuctra, thebes brought about a period
	of peace and stbility unparalleled in the fourth century b.c.

	2. with the first common peace--or peace of antalcidas--sparta
	betrayed the interests of the greeks, especially the greeks of asia,
	to the persians.

	3. the battle of chaeroneia was but the last step in phillip's
	very careful masterplan to take over the greek city-states.

*that* is what i call a multeple choice.

-- 
-- 
-- bob pasker
-- rbp@netcom.com
--
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:11:53 EST
From:         ROMAN PANCHYSHYN <panchysh@LIB1.LAN.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Re: Angelou/Santayana
Comments: To: HISTORY@VM1.MCGILL.CA

Yes, I have found a reference to the story about Frost in the "National
Geographic", vol. 149, no. 4 (April 1976), p. 440. The poem he recited was
titled "The Gift Outright".


      Roman. S. Panchyshyn
      McGill University
      514-398-4790
      panchysh@lib1.lan.mcgill.ca
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From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: Re: Angelou/Santayana
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:49:55 GMT

Ron Cantor <RGCANTOR@SUVM.BITNET> writes:
>While we're on the subject, it's disturbing how many historical inaccuracies
>were perpetuated by televised coverage of the inaugural week's events....

its important not to confuse television (or its news shows) with
reality.  that's why i have not had a television since 1978.

-- 
-- 
-- bob pasker
-- rbp@netcom.com
--
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:46:15 +0100
From:         Christopher Currie <ccurrie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re:Battle of Hastings
Comments: To: HISTORY@ibm.gwdg.de

> Hastings is used as the modern term by historians when speaking to
> non-historians. I could have called it the Battle of Senlac, but for
> clarity of illustration I used a term recognizable to EVERYONE in
> this network. And remember, if a student is taking a history
> multiple choice, they are NOT in the upper division courses and
> would certainly not appreciate the nuance you cite.
>

Yes, and as I pointed out the battle has been known as the Battle of
Hastings for most of subsequent history. But it didn't happen
AT Hastings. The question could have been phrased differently
'defeated Harold in the Battle of Hastings', 'won the Battle of
Hastings' etc. to allow a more correct answer.

The point is that multiple-choice questions not only involve
simplification and glossing over difficulties; they encourage
carelessness in the test-framer or examiner. The student is not
thereby encouraged to be diligent or accurate.

Christopher
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:16:40 -0500
From:         DXZ102@PSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Angelou/Santayana
Comments: To: history@psuvm.bitnet

I cited no such television shows.   I hate that medium with a passion!!!

Dave
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:56:53 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: i'm curious...
              22 Jan 1993 13:59:13 -0500 from <pschwarz@CABELL.V CU.EDU>

On Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:59:13 -0500 Philip J. Schwarz said:
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 1993 16:36:00 EST Tom Powers said:
>> >a free black who bought his wife and kept her legally his slave because
>> >she would be better protected that way than if he manumitted her from
>> >a black plantation owner.
>>
>> There have been several messages to this effect.  Can we have a little more
>> context, please?  It isn't obvious why a manumitted slave would be in more
>> danger than the free black who freed him/her, even considering any "grand-
>> fathering" inserted into laws of slave-holding states.
>>
>Limited "context"--i.e., the Virginia context.  From 1806 to 1816,
>any emancipated person had 12 months to leave the state.  Even after
>1816, permission had to be sought from a court to remain.  Under

Just so--and just what is puzzling me.  I wouldn't expect a court to let one
remain in the state very often.  As time passes, I would expect to see a lower
and lower incidence of free blacks in Virginia, and a lower and lower
occurrence of black slaveholders.  Is this the case?
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:41:00 -0400
From:         "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: British Casualties WWI

        For just about any statistics on Great Britain during the First World
War, consult _Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire During
the Great War, 1914-1920_, published in 1922.  Alternatively, you might want to
check the Official History published by the British Government.  You will find
separate volumes on the various campaigns, including Macedonia, Pallestine and
something like 14-16 volumes on the Western Front.

        A word of warning.  To borrow a phrase, determing casualty figures for
Great Britain in WWI is much like trying to nail Jell-o to the wall.  There is
simply NO agreement on the figures, since they are part of the overall debate
on the wisdom and effectiveness of the British generals, including Haig.  The
issue is devisive and therefore the context of these figures is politically
charged.

        What is the topic of your colleague's work?  I would be very
interested in learning more about it.

-------------
Mike McCarthy                   "Lafayette, we are here!"
Marshall Univ. History Dept.            -Col. C.E. Stanton, 4 July 1917, Paris
Huntington, WV 25755, USA       "We've paid off that old fart Lafayette.  What
YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.EDU       frog son-of-a-bitch do we owe now?"
YEA003@MARSHALL                         -U.S. Infantryman after Battle of
                                         Soissons, 28 May 1918
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:17:31 EST
From:         MacDonald <BGE9@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      NEED A QUICK BOOK REVIEW.

Hello,

Has any one read CRUEL HABITATIONS: A HISTORY OF WORKING-CLASS HOUSING
1700-1918 by Enid Gauldie?
If so, can you provide a quick synopsis for me.  Thank you.

John MacDonald PLEASE RESPOND TO <BGE9@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:31:56 +0100
From:         Christopher Currie <ccurrie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Large lecture sections
Comments: To: HISTORY@ibm.gwdg.de

>
>
>
> In article <4195.9301221359@clus1.ulcc.ac.uk> Christopher Currie
> <ccurrie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK> writes:
> >
> >There are Right Answers in History? At undergraduate level?
> >
>
> *Sigh*...
>
> Yes, such a beast exists, at the freshman level anyway. In other  words,
> consider the question below:
>
> "William defeated Harold at Hastings in which year:
> a) 1047
> b) 1086
> c) 1066
> d) 1096
>
> I posit that such tests bode ill for the teaching profession, and
> for the future of humanities education in general.
>

Especially as the question has been so phrased that none of the answers
offered is right.

As every schoolboy knows, William defeated Harold at Battle, not
at Hastings. That the battle has been known as the 'battle of
Hastings' since the 12th century or earlier is one of those
nuances that multiple-choice questions can't expose. You can't call it
the Battle of Battle without sounding silly.

Christopher Currie

(who is struggling with an editor's insistence that some lists of
probably incommensurable historical data should be put in a
table..)
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:37:25 -0500
From:         JFOX@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU
Subject:      SANBORN MAP
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

For a piece that I am writing need to provide a word description of a
Sanborn Map.  I know what it is, and have used them, but am not able to
describe it in a meaningful way.  Can someone provide an "official"
description so that my readers will have an understanding what it is.  In
final version, we may include an illustration of one, but I still need to
describe it in words.  All help would be appreciated.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: martem@karl.uio.no (Marte Nolet)
Subject: Ftp-sites
Followup-To: bit.listserv.history
Organization: Dep. of Sociology
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:09:23 GMT

Ive seen two others asking for FTP-sites for historians. I would also be
interested in them. 
As the others Im pretty new and need instructions to get to a FTP. (Is it
anonymos? If it isnt what do I do than?)
Thanks for the help from Norway
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:31:29 -0800
Comments:     <Parser> W: FROM field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained.
From:         Bob Pasker <rbp@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      new list for teaching assitants

in light of the recent discussions on exams, i offer the following

T-ASSIST on LISTSERV@UNMVMA.UNM.EDU
         or LISTSERV@UNMVMA.BITNET

   Announcing a new Listserv list for college and university teaching
   assistants around the world.  This list is for those students who
   help or assist the professor or lecturer in their classroom duties.

   University teaching assistants have a variety of responsibilities.
   The purpose of this discussion group is to give teaching assistants
   the opportunity to discuss the roles of being a teacher and a
   student.  Some questions to stimulate our conversation include:

      What kinds of teaching techniques do you use?
      How can you motivate students and stimulate discussion?
      How can you promote a supportive classroom climate?
      How can you set expectations for students that are high enough to
       challenge but not to overwhelm?
      How can you review for tests, write examinations and assignments and
       grade?
      How can you balance being a teacher and student?

   These and many more issues can be discussed in this teaching
   assistant discussion group.  Your ideas are encouraged.

   To subscribe to the list, send e-mail to:

      listserv@unmvma.unm.edu (or listserv@unmvma for Bitnet)

   and in the body of the message put the line:

      sub t-assist Yourfirstname Yourlastname

   Owner: Jennifer Gruene  jgruene@bootes.unm.edu
          University of New Mexico
--
--
-- bob pasker
-- rbp@netcom.com
--
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:19:03 EST
From:         "James G. Carrier" <jgc5p@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Large lecture sections
Comments: To: History Discussion List <HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu>

On Jan 22,  3:07pm, Bob Pasker wrote:
> Subject: Re: Large lecture sections
>                        i think this is a valid point, as my interest
> in history was not a result of a pre-existing burning desire, but from
> the interest and encouragement of an instructor in my first american
> history survey course.  although i cannot say for sure, i don't think
> i would have had the same reaction had it been a 600 person class.
>
> well, this doesnt really answer the original poster's question: how to
> do, but instead questions the wisdom of what seems to be becoming a
> growing trend.
> -- End of excerpt from Bob Pasker <rbp@NETCOM.COM>

I do not think anyone who thinks universities are educational institutions is
in favor of large classes. But then, the folks who pay the bills ...

          Yours,

          James G. Carrier

29, University Circle / Charlottesville, Virginia, 22903
(804) 971-2983 / jgc5p@virginia.edu
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:13:39 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: i'm curious...

On Mon, 18 Jan 1993 16:36:00 EST Tom Powers said:
>a free black who bought his wife and kept her legally his slave because
>she would be better protected that way than if he manumitted her from
>a black plantation owner.

There have been several messages to this effect.  Can we have a little more
context, please?  It isn't obvious why a manumitted slave would be in more
danger than the free black who freed him/her, even considering any "grand-
fathering" inserted into laws of slave-holding states.
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:36:13 EST
From:         lin collette <BI599128@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject:      references on revisionism/historical method
Comments: To: history@psuvm.psu.edu

I'm working on a section of my dissertation that involves historical revision-
ism.  I've having trouble finding good sources on revisionism and would appre-
ciate any references people can supply.  ALso, any good books on historiography
out there?  What would you recommend?

Also, if there's anyone out there affiliated currently or in the past with the
Union Institute, I'd love to hear from you.

lin collette (Bi599128@brownvm [bitnet] or Bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu [internet
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:58:57 +0100
From:         Christopher Currie <ccurrie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Large lecture sections
Comments: To: HISTORY@ibm.gwdg.de

>
>
> > >
> > > My school handles large lecture sections by using OMR "black-in" tests.
> >                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >                                                     ???
> >
> >                                                     AK
> Optical Machine Readable forms. One blacks in a circle which is supposed to
> correspondend to the right answer. Some sort of machine readable multiple
> choice.

There are Right Answers in History? At undergraduate level?

Christopher Currie
ccurrie@clus1.ulcc.ac.uk
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From: riilai@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Question about FTP-sites
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:00:09 EET

Hello

Before Christmas there was some conversation about developing history network
in this newsgroup. In one of the messages there was mentioned "two large
FTP-sites that hold a lot of files of interest for historians".

I would like to know where these sites are and how can I get files from them?

And what is in those files? Or do the sites have indexes or something? 
(...is "site" a tecnical term or what?...excuse my ignorance, this all is quite
new to me.)

Riitta Laitinen
University of Turku
Finland
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