HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DMITRIIZ@templevm.bitnet (dmitrii)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Down with Lenin, long live the Czar!
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:42:50 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Younopot, bessils madyorul.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: nbaloian@dcc.uchile.cl (Nelson Baloian)
Subject: who cares of the armenian being murdered 
Originator: nbaloian@dcc.uchile.cl
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:01:43 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Chile, Depto. de Ciencias de la Computacion

And who cares of the armenian being murdered every day`
by the bombing in Stepanakerd. Who cared anyway when the 
murdering in sumgait begann ? you Mutlu ? you, the 
pupil of mutlu ? don't tell me lies, I'm living in Chile
because my grandfthers fammily was killed in 1915-!!

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Shafarevich and National Academy
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:10:00 GMT


>  It's long as I'm tortured by a question:
>what you, Americans, consider as "violently abusive" ?
>  If I slap my wife ocasionally below her back - am I
>"violently abusive" ? Very actual question, indeed...

>  Otherwise examplary husband,
>  Serega



This depends on your motive. Is your motive to express your appreciation
or some other positive emotion, or is it to convince her that she is
really a worthless human being and should be frightened of you?

Judging from the tone of your post, I would guess it is the former.

-patricia
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Vsevolod A Sukhanovsky)
Subject: A GDE ZH NASH DOROGOI TOVARISHCH ???
Summary: gh3 98 ropliuk 23hcwp.khi
Keywords: MUTLA MUDLA turok
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 03:21:06 GMT

Vernuvshis' iz otpuska, ya s glubokim priskorbiem obnaruzhil polnoe 
otsutstvie nashikh turetskikh tovarishchei (mutla & co., ltd) v efire.
Chto sluchilos'? Libo zarabotal moi kill-file (kotoryi ran'she
Mutlu ne bral), libo... Strashno dazhe dumat' ob etom...

Tak chto zhe s nimi stalo?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: treacherous Russians (Baltic boshevicks)
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:45:05 EDT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Sep2.101840.19448@nntp.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>verbit@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

>>Lithuania is an exception, of course: they have had no less
>>immense culture than any other mature European people. Not a wonder that
>>a situation in Lithuania is better than in other two Baltics countries.

>In what ways situation in Lithuania is better? The only way situation
>in Lithuania actually differs from situation in Latvia and Estonia is
>that there are considerably fewer Russians in Lithuania,

I referred there to recent article which quoted RFL report,
stating that the only Baltic country with tolerable situation
in the human rights is Lithuania.

>It's surprising that you suddenly start praising the maturity of Lithuanian
>culture. They were, in fact, the last country in Europe to become 
>Christian. :-)

I bet they were happy to be one! Actually, Christianity
has nothing to with culture. Lithuaninan's paganism was 
in fact a quite polished religion, so they have had no
reasons to became Christians (as, say, Russians have).

>I have no reason to undermine Lithuanian culture, but I'm trying to say that
>your definition of cultural maturity has no basis in reality. In what ways
>are Russians culturally more mature than Estonians? How does that affect
>the treatment of minorities? Give me one example of how the great Lithuanian
>culture helps them to treat their Polish minority better than Estonians
>are treating their Russian minority, and then I'll tell you how pigs can fly.

You are right, culture never helped with minorities treatment.
I was answering the article were it was stated that in Baltics
it should be better than in Tadjikistan. I assume that the author
believes that Balts are mature etc than Tadjiks are not, while the
truth is opposite.

Misha.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: treacherous Russians
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:37:58 GMT

>
>To make it even more "naughty", CNN yesterday amounted to saying the same thing
>about Lithuania opposing it to other Baltic States. CNN did say that there are
>still problems in Lithuania itself and aired a Polish newspaper editor who
>complained about different restrictions that ethnic Poles in Lithuania are
>facing including restrictions on owning property. So, if Lithuania is ethnic
>heaven, what can be said of other Baltic States ?
>
>Oleg

Compared to Cantral Asian states and Caucasus the Baltic states are ethnic
heavens for the russians.
Jarmo Ryyti
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re:
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:28:45 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:19:57 GMT
>From: Algirdas Pakstas <pakstas@IDT.UNIT.NO>

>When war was finished and Turkey was crashed (by Suvorov !!! who also
>is famous as suppressor of rebellion in Lithuania and Poland !!!)
>then Russia included in peace treatment between Russia and Turkey ...
>question of "joining" Besarabia to Russia (i.e. cutting of foreign
>territory). Turkish Pasha protested for such violation of
>international law but after long diplomatic "work" he agreed to
>signature this treatment.

I'm kind of lost here. Which "foreign territory" you are talking about?
Turkish? If yes, what is the violation of international law? Turkey lost
the war, and it lost the territory as well. After all, Moldova wasn't
probably a part Turkish historical lands, was it? If no, why Turkish
Pasha was bothering of non-Turkish territory so much, and signed treaties
concerning it?

>Is such "joining" to Russia any basis for claiming that original
>script of Romanian language used in Moldova (Besarabia) was cyrillic?

No, the basis is that original script of Romanian language used in Moldova
(Besarabia) was cyrillic as early as in XV century, long before Suvorov,
and rebellions in Lithuania and Poland.

D.
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: "Russification" of Finland
Date: 5 Sep 92 18:16:33 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Aug31.183621.11418@ctr.columbia.edu>, boris@cashew.ctr.columbia.edu (Boris Varshavsky) writes:
> Recently somebody here (Mark Hubey?) mentioned 1809-1917 as a period
> of colonization of Finland by Russia. It provoced me to the question:
> 
> For more than a century it might be some Russian population in Finland
> (and even not in a one generation), as a result of metropolia's "activity".
> 
> Do you, gentlemen, have any information regarding those people after
> 1917?  It could be interesting to know...
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  Boris Varshavsky	boris@ctr.columbia.edu	|  Let        |
>  Software Engineer	 Columbia University	|      it     |
>  voice: 212-854-8928	  fax: 212-316-9068     |         be! |


There is one peculiar fact that perhaps deserves wider attention.

On my desk I found one article of a specialist historian dealing with
the amount of Russian-speaking population in the Grand Duchy of Finland
in the year 1900. After critical examination of sources the author
concludes:
1900 the population in Finland amounted 2 712 600 people, of which
only 0,22 per cent (2 from thousand!) had Russian as their language.

Some data concerning the Russian-speaking population in the biggest
finnish cities/towns in the year 1900:

Helsinki/Helsingfors         4 399
Viipuri/Viborg/Vyborg        5 378
Turku/Abo                      695
Tampere/Tammerfors             115

(Source: Venalaiset Suomessa 1809-1917, SHS Helsinki 1984
         "The Russians in Finland 1809-1917" p.25-27.

These are astonishingly low figures even to those schooled in
Finnish history! After almost century of Russian rule the
"russification" in Finland was very superficial, one can't actually
speak of any oppression in this sense...

Finns were actually obedient subjects of the Czar: the statue of
Alexander II still stands on the main square of the Helsinki city
(opposite the university, the former Alexander-university).

The Helsinki Russian population reached its peak during the first
world war (about 20 000, mostly military officers and soldiers).

So, the amount of Russians in Finland did not decrease after
the bolshevik revolution, on the contrary: we got the emigrants.


With best regards,

Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
From: muh@physics11 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 11 Sep 1992 07:37:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics11.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep11.035408.17528@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>
>And no one gets expelled for not knowing Estonian. How about
>checking up a few facts before you open your mouth? Not
>getting citizenship does not mean "be expelled".

Who is/was expelling those Jews from Russia? Big deal, beemg deprived of couple
of rights, does not mean "be expelled".

yury.
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: _Russophobia_
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:12:52 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

With regard to the recent discussion of I.R.Shafarevich and his fate:

  has his book _Russophobia_ been translated into English?
  Into other languages?

Thanks, - Mark
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Subject: Re: Dniester Communists
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:13:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.145235.15580@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
|> In article <Sep.13.21.38.02.1992.6169@pilot.njin.net> macko@pilot.njin.net (Peter C. Macko) writes:
|> 
|> Peter is trying to substantiate his strong claim that the Dniester
|> Republic president is "staunchy communist", and shows that he
|> hasn't got a clue (sorry, Peter). I will try to explain why
|> (not that I claim that Smirnov is not one, but Peter's
|> reposts are quite irrelevant).

This Verbitsky dude doesn't have a clue.  I would pose the problem
in reverse.  It's common knowledge that Smirnov is a staunch communist, 
at least for anyone who follows the events in Moldova and the 
"Dniester Republic."
Do you have any arguments to disprove that? I mean the statement
that Smirnov is an communist of the old type.


Cheers
MIhai
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.romania
Subject: Re: "Moldavian" language and other musings
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:24:26 GMT
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article <1992Sep8.210653.3537@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Sergei Viznyuk (viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu) writes:
>
>>  There were no referendum in Crimea, as yet. 
>
>There were, Viznuyk. If you concentrate you might even
>remember it. Does December 1st 1991 (My God, doesn't
>seems ages ago?) ring a bell?

  Dear Erland. The question of Dec,1991 "referendum"
was the approval of declaration of independence, the
Ukrainain communist parlament adopted in Aug.1991.
 There was no referendum on the independence of
Crimea in Crimea as yet.
  Doesn't it ring a bell for you, dear Erland,
to read some papers before posting ?
S.V.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7876 soc.culture.soviet:7488
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Shafarevich and National Academy
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:49:36 EDT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Sep9.130855.2293@gtech.com> ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov) writes:
>In article <18jgqpINNlc4@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>>Oh, two more alive: Ginsburg and Khalatnikov.
>>
>G.A.Ilizarov ( died recently, but was elected not so long time ago, BTW
>               he is not a member AMN )
>U.B.Khariton ( do not know is he alive)
>Kikoin       ( - " - )
>
>Just from the top of my head. I do not think that it proves anything
>(once more anything). I would like just to point out that M.Verbitsky
>_opyat' _popal _paltsem _v _nebo.

>Aleksey Y. Romanov

Where I "popal pal'tsem", Alexei Romanov? I never claimed that there
are no living Jews in Soviet Academy. There are several Jews,
e. g. I. M. Gelfand and V. L. Ginzburg. I object the
moronic claim that Jew academicians are trying to 
purify Academy from antisemitism. You can try to
get Priroda magazine with Ginzburg article about
Academy to see how dissatisfied he is with it. The same
goes for Gelfand (he is living in New Jersey and has
no intentions to return in Russia). Finally, in the 
article of Shen I've posted there is a quote from
ac. Osipov, who states that the recent elections
in Russian academy were openly antisemitic.

Misha.
From: Peter=Neenan%NetAd%HSRD@HSRD.SOWO.UNC.EDU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: re: "visser" boggles the mind, doesn't "it"?
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:49:02 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Let's let bygones be bygones.  Everyone kiss and make up.
From: KOROTKOV@auducvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Shafarevich and National Academy
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:07:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>


        Hey, folks!
May I ask a question? Just out of curiosity.
Almost everything was discussed under this subject, but I wonder did anybody
read the answer given by this nasty villain Shafarevich to the NAS officials
and posted by Dr Hammer in this group? Or the court has already ruled that
no evidence from this bastard shall be accepted? Why no comments?
Respectfuly,
A.Korotkov
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Confederation of the Mountain Peoples
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 15:38:58 GMT

In article <9209070313.AA01221@feds66.Prime.COM> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>Actually, that was the same algorithm working, that I have described above.
>I also remember vividly, as in 1988, at the best times of perstroika, the
>whole very respectful bunch of Georgian academicians and professors, with
>lots of titles, honours, etc., wrote a furious letter to "Literaturnaya
>gazeta", where some person dared to suggest that Svans are different nation,
>than Georgians. Letter (almost half of newspaper's page) was respectfully
>printed with apologies. For reference: Svans in fact have _four_ different
>"dialects", which are in fact different languages, differing from one another
>as much as Slavic languages between themselves, and all those "dialects"
>differ from Georgian (doesn't even matter, Kartli, Mingrelian or Lazic
>("Adzharian")) almost as much as Russian from Latvian or Lithuanian!!
>
>D.

 My personal experience with many fellow Georgians supports
this idea: they were "real" Georgians, and they all claimed
that they could hardly understand Svan's language. The Migrelian
is somewhat closer to "canonic" Georgian, IMHO.
S.V.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7855 soc.culture.soviet:7479
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Dniester Communists
From: verbit@widder.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:16:49 EDT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <Sep.14.23.05.57.1992.2740@pilot.njin.net> macko@pilot.njin.net (Peter C. Macko) writes:

>  In summary, the following items have been noted.

>    1) A communist party is the dominant political force.

Does it call itself Communist? I doubt :)

>    2) This party wishes to preserve the USSR.

Actually, Russian Empire. In some sense, they are right:
a dissolution of USSR is painful and meaningless.

>    3) The name of the new "republic" dominated by a 
>       communist party is the "Dniester Soviet Socialist 
>       Republic".  This name was not forced on it.

Do you know, Peter, that a popular slogan in Civil war
and in perestroyka was "Za Sovety bez communistov" - For
Sovets without Commies"? I am sure you would not, by the
usual set of CNN - NY Times - People views you defend
The name "DSSR" is forced by the need to legitimize
their state by tying it to dissolved USSR.

>    4) Its governing body is the Dniester Republic Supreme 
>       Soviet".  Again, no one forced it to carry on in the
>       tradition of the USSR and name its governing body 
>       this way. 

And what's wrong with Sovets as a goverment system? By the way,
they are preserved almost everywhere, excluding Baltics
and, probably, Georgia.

>    5) Its supporters consider it the "first republic free
>       of democrats".

Not all of its supporters do

>  Even if this isn't enough to convince you, I hope its
>enought to make you wonder.

Why should I wonder if I know this for a long time? The same
could be said about South Osetia goverment, Narva's and 
some others. They are not red, they are brown with red
shades (like you know what :). Anyway, they are supported
by people and they are acting with some restrain, what cannot
be said about some Balts or Georgians or Snegur, who are brown
with black shades, not with red ones.

>And as I said before, this isn't all I've seen, only what 
>I have on line.  You're more then welcome to reserve your
>judgement until someone provides you with more definite
>proof.

Sorry Peter, I *was* there and I know what is true. No
online reference could make me believe in lies.

Misha.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:52:20 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:45:41 GMT
>From: Janne Kivel{ <f33012l@PUUKKO.HUT.FI>

>Wasn't there a line in a Soviet passport in which the person's nationality
>was told? I was asked my nationality in addition to citizenship when
>I applied for visa to the Soviet Union. So don't tell me Soviet authorities
>didn't distinguish people by their nationality.


This stupid stuff in passport was introduced by Bolsheviks in early 20-ies
with an apparent intention to officially protect small nations from
russification.

At that time (and somecases later as well), being member of small nation
beared no personal disadvantages, but rather more personal opportunities -
affirmative action, you know (not more opportunities for preserving your
ethnical identity, though).

Needless to say, that measure, in general, hasn't at all succeded, though
in some particular cases it did help.

D.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Dniester Communists
From: verbit@widder.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:00:08 EDT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Sep15.001349.16580@morrow.stanford.edu> mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.145235.15580@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>|> In article <Sep.13.21.38.02.1992.6169@pilot.njin.net> macko@pilot.njin.net (Peter C. Macko) writes:

>|> Peter is trying to substantiate his strong claim that the Dniester
>|> Republic president is "staunchy communist", and shows that he
>|> hasn't got a clue (sorry, Peter). I will try to explain why
>|> (not that I claim that Smirnov is not one, but Peter's
>|> reposts are quite irrelevant).

>This Verbitsky dude doesn't have a clue.  I would pose the problem
>in reverse.  It's common knowledge that Smirnov is a staunch communist, 
>at least for anyone who follows the events in Moldova and the 
>"Dniester Republic."
>Do you have any arguments to disprove that? I mean the statement
>that Smirnov is an communist of the old type.

Sorry Mihai, that Smirnov is a communist is a common knowledge
for people who are following the Moldova conflict by CNN or
NY Times (Slimes?) who have got even less clues than Peter
(who, at least, looked through Radio Liberty articles :).

Smirnov is not a staunch communist. He could be a communist, but since
his supporters are blaming everything on Commies (as well as Snegur's
do) he cannot be an open one. I have not read his mind, but I have
read a lot of newspapers published by his supporters. They usually
say that USSR and Russian Empire were good things, Russian Empire
was better because there were no communists, and Gorbachiov-Eltsyn
regime are worse since ther Great Russia dissolved. They are nationalists,
not communists, as well as Yazov-Pugo coup band. At least, Yazov
openly criticised Communism and said something in lines 
"Russian state, no Commies, no capitalists". I am sure
Smirnov is the same.

Misha
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: VOSKHOD
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:51:44 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.




Does anyone know in which area Nauchno Issledovatelskii Institut --(Voskhod)--
(Research and Development Institute)in  Moscow does its research ?

Does it have to do with computers/cryptography/mathematics ?

Thank you very much.
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7790 soc.culture.soviet:7288
From: muh@physics3 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Shafarevich and National Academy
Date: 9 Sep 1992 01:55:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics3.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep8.083933.15464@husc3.harvard.edu> zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev) writes:
>> The education (I actually
>>mean not "obrazovanie" but "vospitanie") probably should supress that
>>(i'm not sure), but it definetely should much more supress any impulse
>>to violence.
>>
>
> I would not agree in this point. You are probably more experienced in
>this matter but still. Children _are_ violent. You can't help it. i've

You have not got it. When I'm speaking that one should develop good manners
in children, i do not mean that I would expect my son eat with fork and knife
wearing black tie, when he is 2 or 4 years old. But I would encourage right
tendency, with the goal, that by 18 he will be able to do that (not all the
time, god save :) ). Same with violence. 


Yury
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: mad-2@kub.nl (C. Wekx)
Subject: Re: Down with Lenin, long live the Czar!
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 16:10:18 GMT
Organization: Tilburg University, Tilburg, The Netherlands

don't agree.
-- 
"Uta'lom az ege'sz huszadik sza'zadot" La'szlo' Lugosi/Fero' Nagy

Constantijn Wekx
email should be addressed to: mad-2@kub.nl
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: European Parliament Recognized the Genocide of Armenians in 1984
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:55:26 GMT

	Argic, welcome to the club. By the way, your predecessor,
the late Hasan B. Mutlu, before falling  victim to the group
of Armenian terrorists and infuriated netters, promised me
to answer my question on the decision of the Europarliament recognizing
the Armenian Genocide in 1984.

	 Since his violent death prevented him from
doing so, maybe you can share your thoughts on this issue?
Somehere between your famous quotes, please say YES or NO,
this will make life easier for me.