HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: braun@vati.fmi.uni-passau.de (Carsten Braun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Let's hit Nazis?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:12:52 GMT
Organization: University of Passau, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: peschl.fmi.uni-passau.de

abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu writes:

[a lot of stuff deleted]

>Christian Lampl>>...after the Soarland was taken away from Germany many people
>from there wanted to rejoin.

>Sure. But 90% vote in such situation.... [stuff deleted]

Many people wanted to rejoin but a considerable portion of the population
would have prefered to remain if not under french rule so under some sort
of special status only loosely tied to Germany. In fact the pro-german vote
was NOT an overwhelming 90% but only 65%

To my opinion this is explained by the political structure of Germany in
those days - it was dominated by the regions collectively called Prussia
( It's the structure certain political wings want to re-impose on the freshly
unified Germany ). The far western regions of Germany like the nearly 
bilingual Soarland or the Rhineland (i hope that's the correct english name)
have always suffered under Prussian regime so it's quite logical that there
was only limited enthusiasm in the Soarland regarding the return to Germany
which at those days meant "Prussia & its satellites".

Carsten

>Christian Lampl>> Let's hit the Nazis?

>Sorry Chris, I don't see you hitting Nazis. You are doing everything to hit 
>Larry. I could understand why. I think that at the same time you are defending
>Nazis trying to hide their guilt. You obviously don't think so. May I am wrong.
>But at least you are not hitting Nazis. This the last thing you are doing. Till
>know the first and the last German who did hit Nazis was Sasha Pabst.

>                              Regards
>                                 
>                           Victor Abkevich 
>informed. And what about Hitler
From: dennis@metw3.met.fu-berlin.de (Dennis Schulze)
Subject: Re: FOCUS
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:58:42 GMT

In <1993Jan27.173758@informatik.uni-kl.de> petsch@informatik.uni-kl.de (Petsch Wolfram - PA Meybrink) writes:

>Seit kurzem gibt es eine Konkurenz f"ur den SPIEGEL. Ich hab mir mal so ein Teil
>besorgt. Mein erster Eindruck war eigentlich recht positiv. 
>	- nicht so h"amisch 
>	- "uberschaubarere Artikel
>	- bunt (+/- ??)
>	- weniger tief (vielleicht wird das noch??)
>	- durchweg positivere Grundeinstellung der Artikel

>Was meint die Netzgemeinde zu diesem Teil?

Ich bin zwar nur ein bescheidener Teil der Netzgemeinde, aber ich
finde Focus ganz in Ordnung. Ist nicht so aufgeblaeht wie der Speigel
und bringt mehr Berichte als Kommentare. Den Namen "Nachrichtenmagazin"
verdient der Spiegel meiner Ansicht naemlich gar nicht, da kaum objektiv
Fakten geliefert werden. 
Bitte nicht noch ein flame-war auf soc.culture.german, also Proteste
direkt an mich ;-)

Gruss,
 Dennis
From: tpgwr@sru002.chvpkh.chevron.com (Paul G. Wright)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: German Contacts
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:41:46 GMT
Reply-To: tpgwr@sru002.chvpkh.chevron.com (Paul G. Wright)
Organization: CPTC


  I have relatives, just recently found through a family history I am doing, 
in Gottenheim. I am interested in corresponding with someone from Germany to 
find out more about culture, life and history of that region of Germany.

  My German is basic at best, but I will try to correspond in German. I write 
letters to my relatives, who speak/read no English, and am able to get 
understood (to some degree). It takes me a while to translate, but I get the 
gist of the contents.

  If interested please drop me a line or two. I live near San Francisco, 
California and am a Computer Systems Analyst for Chevron Oil Corporation.

  Thanks in advance...

Paul G. Wright
Chevron Petroleum Technology Co.
tpgwr@sru002.chvpkh.chevron.com
From: dieter@informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Dieter Kreuer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews and Germans
Followup-To: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Date: 25 Jan 1993 11:22:36 GMT
Organization: i4
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: frueh-koelsch.informatik.rwth-aachen.de

In article <1993Jan24.233838.19766@husc3.harvard.edu>,
abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu wrote:

> There are several points:
> 1)Even though I don't think I would ever totally agree with some of my 
> opponents, I would probably agree with some of their points. And probably they
> will agree with some of mine.
> 2)Even if this will not happen, it is important that we will understand why we
> are thinking this way, and what we are thinking about this matter.
> 3)There are much more people reading than posting - let them judge!
> 
>                              Victor Abkevich 

As one of your opponents, I agree 100 %.

-----------------------                  ---------------------------------
     Dieter Kreuer      ##     ======== / dieter@informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Lehrstuhl Informatik IV __   /// /#    /  dieter%informatik.rwth-
     RWTH Aachen        ##  /// # #   /             aachen.de@uunet.uu.net
     Ahornstr. 55       ## /// ##### /...!informatik.rwth-aachen.de!dieter
W-5100 Aachen, Germany  ====      # / PHONE:  +49 241 80 21413
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: dockhorn@probitas.cs.utas.edu.au (Patrick Dockhorn)
Subject: Re: Minimum driving age?
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:01:37 GMT

In <16B5DFB40.BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU> BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Stephanie Edelmann) writes:

>In article <C181uq.17x@inews.Intel.COM>
>jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
> 
>>
>>What's the minimum age to get a driver's license in Germany?

>The minimum driving age is 18 yo.  However, a friend of mine
>(in a german Bar - I'm not sure how reliable that was) told me once
>that he got his licence at 16.  He said that he had a blind mother,
>his father was dead, and he had to drive his Mom around quite a bit.
>He said, he had to pass an "Idiotentest" at 16 and was allowed to
>drive (only with his Mom in the car)

Don't tell us they gave him the pilot licence the same way when his
mother decided to have some holidays on a lonely island in the south
pacific...I recken your friend was as reliable as drunk :-)
 
[ ... ]
>By the way, the driving test not administered by the police.  Don't
>know who actually does do it, though.  (TUEV comes to mind, but that
>doesn't seem right).

As far as I can remember (it's almost eight years for me too...) this is
done by the 'Landesamt', i.e. an office within the state government.
They send somebody to check your skills, and I remember those guys were
very unpopular in our school, as it was the decision of this person
whether he took you on an easy ride or into a line of dangerous junctions.

>Stephanie

-patsch

--
Automobile, n.:
        A four-wheeled vehicle that runs up hills and down pedestrians.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: 6236jamisonr@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: test
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:55:34 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 6236jamisonr@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

test
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Stranger on the train
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:50:05 GMT
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nz11.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de

Last summer I met on the train an old man emitting endless nationalistic and
reactionary tirades about evil Americans who are always accusing Germany of all
sorts of things, about stupid leftists who do everything wrong, and so on.
He was clearly simple-minded and full of prejudice.  But his outstanding
feature was his stamina: he started to talk the moment he sat down, and he
didn't stop before he left.

He was a real pest; I couldn't throw in more than a few words in the hour we
were together.  I really would have liked to point out where he was wrong in
my opinion but I would have had to shout.  A woman in the next compartment left
out of embarrassment, I believe.  I waited for a chance to say anything but he
seemed determined to tell me everything that crossed his mind.

He told stories about his fights with aquarium manufacturers in court - he cut
himself at one of the things - what he said to the judges, what he said to the
attorneys, and that he won in the end.  I could vividly imagine the feelings of
the people in court.

His last story was about his time as a soldier in WWII.  When a lieutenant told
him to shoot inhabitants of a village they had conquered, he got pissed off,
turned around, and told the lieutenant something about morals, who was impressed
if not by the words and tone then by the gun he had.

I believed him, and if you would have had to listen to this bloke for an hour,
you'd believe him too.  I even told him there should have been more like him
then...

...meaning of course his courage and morals, not his opinions and intelligence,
but I fear he didn't know that.

--
thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
  What E. von Daeniken, I. Velikovsky and several others could have said but to
  my knowledge didn't:
"I don't know much about science, but I know what I like!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
From: stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl)
Subject: Re: Let's hit Nazis?
Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:05:47 GMT

abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu writes:

>> Well, I think that there were many people who knew (hmm.. maybe 
>> it is better to say who were quite sure) that cruel things 
>> were happening. I think most of them were just afraid.
>> I won't condemn them for being afraid, because I don't know
>> how I would have had reacted. 
>Did you understand me right? I didn't mean judge. I meant that you are saying
>that they did bad thing.  
I said that they did bad things ? Who ? 
I said that some did bad things and some not.

>We should condemn the fear. We could find a lot of excuses and understand it.
>But we have to condemn it.
Well. I will never condemn fear.

>> The ones who knew were afraid (at least most of them)
>> and the ones who not know .. yeah, they didn't know.
>> I'm not here to condemn fear or unknowledge.
>I thought we came to the conclusion that majority did know? But yes, there were
>people who didn't see things, which they had to see. We could not condemn
>idiots, we could only hope that their number will decrease (:-)).
No. I think majority did not know.
Even if somebody told me that he has heard from a friend that
a friend has heard from a friend that there are camps where 
people are murdered I wouldn't believe him either.
Mass murders were not commited in public.
Sure, the people could have believed the roumors.
But I tend to believe facts. And facts were not 
given to the people.


>Chris are we going to discuss US Marine raping again? Germans did it. Not the
>whole world. For example if it will be new strong Neo-Nazi movement in Germany
>would you say that it is yours obligation to fight with it in Berlin, or mine
>from Boston? (Don't worry, I would help you). And again I never used word
>"judge"
I would say it is the obligation of the whole world to fight 
against it. 
But again. I don't want to excuse something (how often do I have
to repeat it ?). The didn't mention the US Marine to excuse
German soldiers raping woman, but to show Mr. Godfrey that 
raping is not a German invention.
People like him think that Nazism is a german idea and
that it can't happen in other countries too.
I just try to show him the reasons how Nazism could
grow in Germany and that this are things which can happen in
any other country too.

Bye,
  Christian

-- 
"There're so many different worlds, so many different suns,
 but we have just one world, though we live in different ones"
- Dire Straits "Brothers in arms"
Christian Lampl - stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de - aka Ray at the IRC
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Let's hit Nazis?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:46:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.222125.29507@news.tufts.edu> nraclaw@jade.tufts.edu (Nissan Raclaw) writes:
>
>	This argument back and forth over the Nazis and what the Germans
>should or should not have done is, pardon me, fairly pointless.  The

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you don't see the point.

>speeches, writings and edicts of Adolf Hitler made it very clear that he
>intended to rid Germany (at least) of Jews, one way or another.  The
>point is, no one cared.  Not Germans, not Americans, not French.  In

Nor, for that matter, did all of Germany's Jews believe it.  When my
mother's family left in 1933, they shocked all their relatives and 
friends, who were quite angry at them for going just when Germany
needed them.  After all, this thing was goingt o blow over soon.

>Eastern Europe, the locals began mass murdering Jews as soon as they
>heard that the Nazis were on their way.  

Utter nonsense.  There were incidents like this, but it was hardly a 
general rule as you make it out to be.  

>In the Middle East, the Mufti
>of Jerusalem was offering to set up crematoria in Dimona in Israel.

This happened rather late in the game.

>Everyone knew what the Nazis intended, but nobody cared.  

Not so; your oversimplification and muddle don't contribute to
understanding.  You can make *anything* pointless like that.

>Similarly, it
>makes NO difference to me WHY people supported the Nazis.  Just like it

Fine.  That's *you*.  Those of us who aren't interested in repeating
the mistakes of the past need to know.

>makes no difference to me why the blacks of Crown Heights decided to
>attack the Jews there.  

They didn't.  *Some* blacks attacked *some* Jews.

Y'know what?  Attitudes like yours were partly responsible.  People
who speak and think like you tend to show a great deal of contempt
for those who are unlike them.  They tend to show little interest in
any buttheir own, and often behave rudely toward others.  This is
no provocation of violence in and of itself, but it does not 
relieve tensions either.

>The only relevant fact is that nobody cares
>about us (Jews) and it is only therefore up to us to look out for
>ourselves.

Well, you can feel sorry for yourself, or you can go out into the world
and do something so that people will care about you -- as a human being.
Many people do; many don't care whether you're Jewish.  Do you care
whether others in need are Jewish?  Remember how you'r ecommanded to
treat the stranger within your gates.

Roger
From: mike@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de (Mike Hoffmann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Where are the missing...?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:06:38 +0100
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG, AP 712
NNTP-Posting-Host: horus.ap.mchp.sni.de

In article <93027.224909ANTHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <ANTHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Recently I read that before the WWII Germany has population of 110 millions.
>After the war the West zone had population of 50 millions, East zone 16 mil,
>Austria 7 millions all other countries Zchehia, the USSR, Poland, Rumania etc.
>counted no more then 3 millions all together.  This makes 76 millons.  The
>official count of the casualties during the war from German side is 6 millions.
>So 28 millions of German population vanished after the war.  Where are the
>missing Germans?

I'm not sure how those figures come together.
From my school time I remeber that 1937 Germany had a population of 50+
million. In fact I remember that figure because it was something of a
"standing joke" in history class, that the Nazi madness of "Lebensraum"
appeared even more ridiculous when at that time 60 million people were
comfortably living in West Germany, i.e. 10-20% more people in 30% less
space.

I can only imagine that the 110 million added up on, say Aug 31st 1939.
That means that it covered Germany, the Alsatian area, Austria, the
Salisian areas granted to Poland after WW I, maybe even the GArman population
of Switzerland.

COuld you quote the source?

Mike
-- 
Mike Hoffmann - Internet Administrator, Siemens-Nixdorf AG, SNI AP 712  
INTERNET: Mike.Hoffmann@ap.mchp.sni.de
"I don't think we're in Riyadh anymore." - US-Marine in Somalia
From: jwhite@mta.ca (Jay White)
Subject: Re: Steinfeld, Austria
Reply-To: jwhite@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:56:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.101339.24012@siemens.co.at>, ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes:
>Checking the telefone guide I only found a Steinfeld in Carinthia, which
>is in Southern Austria and probably not what you look for.
>Steinfeld (stone field) might also be a name for a small region and
>not necessarily a name for a village/town. SUch a stonefield without
>much value for agriculture might well be used for army/testing purposes.
>
>Heimatbuch: not easy to translate.
>Heimat very similar to area, where one is living
>buch = book
>Heimat is related to one's homeland, more in an emotional, than in a
>legal state affair concern, telling local stories, anecdotes, excerpt's of local
>history (home, home on the range like).   
>
>MAybe this rough und inadaequate explanation initiates somebody on the
>net to create a better one !
>
>
>Mit freundlichen Gruessen

Ernst,
        This is certainly a good try and much more than I could have
come up with on my own!  It is indeed quite likely that the Steinfeld
I am looking for is a "stony plain" located southeast of Vienna where
apparently there were military installations.  What precisely was
there and the nature of the explosion accident I have not yet deter-
mined, but thanks to another net-correspondent (Barbara Nowak-Teufl)
I have the address of the Austrian War Archive in Vienna, which should
be able to solve this little puzzle.  A letter is (I hope) winging its
way there as I write this.
        It looks like the book I was asking about is related to the
Steinfeld in Carinthia.
        May I take this opportunity to extend my sincere thanks to 
Ernst and everyone else who took the time to reply--all contributions 
were much appreciated and helped considerably to clear up my 
geographical confusion.
 
        Best regards,
 
                Jay White     
 --
 Jay White,  Rural & Small Town Research & Studies Program | this post |
 Mount Allison Univ. Sackville NB CANADA Vox: 506/364-2393  \ typed on |
 E-mail: jwhite@mta.ca Fax: 506/364-2601 BBS: 506/364-8182  / recycled |
 SAMPHIRE BBS:24h:v32bis:PCB14.5a Your Host in the Machine | phosphors |
From: cstadaz@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Miss S Stohlmann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: "WAS BILDEN SICH DIE ZAHNAEZTE EIGENTLICH EIN --
Date: 29 Jan 1993 01:40:13 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <lmgkcmINNqq0@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu> werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) writes:

>	um genau darum geht es ja prinzipiell:  wenn der Zahnarzt
>	nicht mehr die angemessene Gesundheitspflege leisten kann
>	weil man ihm ja den Preis vorschreibt, und dieser es ihm
>	unmoeglich macht.  Anscheinend (und ich bin da nicht weiter
>	Fachmann) benutzt man hier "das Feindbild" des fetten, reichen
>	(Zahn-)artzberufs der sechziger und siebziger Jahre, das schon
>       lange nicht mehr berechtigt ist, [...]

Dazu muss man nicht Fachmann sein, das ist offensichtlich.
Genau dieses Feindbild wurde jahrelang von Poltikern und diversen (linken)
Magazinen geschuert. Deshalb kann sich Herr Seehofer auch so sicher sein, dass
aus der Bevoelkerung keine Proteste kommen und sich wahrscheinlich alles
gegen die "geldgierigen" Zahnaerzte richtet. 

Es wurde von einigen Zahnarztvereinigungen versucht, mithilfe von Anzeigen-
kampagnen die Bevoelkerung aufzuklaeren, aber ich fuerchte, die Reaktion
darauf war ziemlich gering. "Man weiss ja, dass Zahnaerzte zuviel verdienen."

>	Also wie dem auch sei, ich bin heute froh dass ich nicht dem Ruf des
>	Numerus Clausus gefolgt bin und mich habe zum Zahnarztberuf verlocken
>	lassen.

Die Ambitionen hatte ich nie, aber mein Vater wuerde mich sicher schlagen, 
wenn ich Zahnaerztin werden wollte!

bine
-- 
<< sabine stohlmann, ch3.011, university of warwick, coventry, cv4 7al, gb >>
 >>   e-mail: cstadaz@csv.warwick.ac.uk   <<   >>   fax: +44 203 461606   <<
<<             >>   "We apologise for the inconvenience"   <<              >>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Subject: Krnakenstaende (War: Kommentare)
Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:56:15 GMT

In article <lmdi5cINNjeq@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu>, werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) writes:
|>	Und in Deutschland ist es politisch unmoeglich, den Gewerk-
|> 	schaften das Zugestaendnis abzuringen, dass wenigstens der erste
|> 	Krankheitstag vom Beschaeftigten selbst zu tragen sei.  Das Resultat
|> 	ist eine (alte, jedoch verschlimmerte) Statistik, die ich gerade jetzt
|> 	wieder in einem Spiegel las:  Krankmeldungen verteilen sich ueber
|> 	Wochentage ungefaehr wie folgt:
|> 
|> 	  Montag 39%, Dienstag 9%, Mittwoch 6%, Donnerstag 12%, Freitag 33%

63.6% aller Statistiken sind frei erfunden.

Nachdem das Thema und so eine Statistik (nur mit den Zahlen
31/10/6/16/37) auch bei uns auftauchte, war etwas mehr ueber sie zu
lesen. Laut Profil 1/93, S. 38 ist das *nicht* eine Statistik der
Krankenstandstage (waere wohl auch schwer zu glauben, wenn man nicht
total der Paranoia mancher Unternehmer verfallen ist), sondern 295
deutsche Grossbetriebe wurden gefragt, an welchem Wochentag es die
meisten Krankenstaende gibt. D.h, wenn eine Firma z.B. die Verteilung
"Mo: 385, Di: 367, Mi: 375, Do: 381, Fr: 372" hat, wird sie Montag
angeben, was nicht heisst, dass 100% ihrer Krankenstaende am Montag
stattfinden.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl                    Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Urlaubsfolgen (1): Wilhelm Busch and you... (and your KILL-file :-)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 11:14:54 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu


	wie versprochen, ich hab mir das alte Wilhelm Busch Buch meiner Jugend
	wieder angeeignet und als ich gerade so durchblaetterte - und, gleich-
	zeitig, mich grad mal so durch soc.culture.german durcharbeitete - da
	musste ich hell auflachen, weil mich die Parallelen so amuesierten:


				Rechthaber

		Seine Meinung ist die rechte:
		  Wenn er spricht, muesst ihr verstummen,
		Sonst erklaert er euch fuer Schlechte,
		  Oder nennt euch gar die Dummen.

		Leider sind dergleichen Strolche,
		  Keine seltenen Erscheinung..
		Wer nicht taub, der meidet solche
		  Ritter von der der eignen Meinung.


	gewidmet allen denen, die es geschafft haben in mein KILL-file
	aufgenommen zu werden  (oder mich in ihres aufzunehmen)....


PS:  ach ja, das alte Argument:  soll man unsinnige Leute einfach ignorieren
     oder muss man oeffentlich gegen deren Unsinn protestieren?!?

     Also gut, einmal im Jahr werde ich also mein KILL-file publizieren,
     um klarzumachen, wem zu widersprechen mir einfach zu dumm ist (und,
     klar doch, ich halte deren Dummheit meist fuer harmlos, weil sie doch
     nie was beeinflussen werden... :-))


	also... noch eines:


				Er ist mal so

			Zwar mit seinem losen Mund
			  Neigt er zum Krakeele;
			Dabei ist er doch im Grund
			  Eine treue Seele.

			Die er seine Freunde nennt,
			  Dulden seine Witze;
			Denn ein jeder, der ihn kennt,
			  Kennt auch seine Muetze.
-- 
  werner@cs.utexas.edu |  ..!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | werner@UTXVM.bitnet

              "Free Advice and Opinions -- Refunds Available"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german