HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:03:47 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>In article <60047@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>>first class. I've also seen a film of a Kyokushinkai black belt going
>>one on one with a black bear. (I think that's highly unethical, but it
>>is impressive.) If you can find it, _Fighting Black Kings_ is a film
>
>Waitaminute! Was this bear sans teeth and claws? If not, it would indeed
>be impressive. And I'd like to see it...

     That, I don't know. It's been a long time since I saw the tape in
question. However, considering that bears are fairly large animals, I'd
hate to be hit even by one that'd been de-clawed...

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
      "There are some microorganisms that exhibit characteristics of
       both plants and animals.  When exposed to light, they undergo
       photosynthesis and when the lights go out, they turn into
       animals.  But then again, don't we all?"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon)
Subject: Re: Killings in Concordia
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 15:07:21 GMT

In article <89074@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> murray@what.gmr.com (Brian Murray) writes:
>Since this is a slow day...
>
>This is a little off the usual MA track (maybe not considering the
>general interest in diverting violence), but there is an interesting
>drama continuing in the newsgroup sci.research.careers, a generally
>uninteresting newsgroup about (you guessed it) careers for scientists.
>A Concordia University professor posted a huge number of messages to
>USENET describing a grievance he had toward Concordia - just before he
>went on a rampage and killed 2 people and injured three others
>yesterday.  The thread reads like a historical record of this tragedy!
>
>He was disarmed by a man he had taken hostage.  Interesting to
>speculate how...
>
>-- 
>Brian T. Murray				murray@gmr.com		
>GM Research Labs			lauren@caen.umich.edu
>
>I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.
>  -- Vice President Dan Quayle

The professor (hereby refered to as the gunman) in question, I don't recall 
his name, was holding two people (after his shooting five other people)
hostage after police had sealed off the ninth floor of Concordia U.'s Hall
building. One of the hostages was also a professor and the other was one of
the universities security guards. The security guard in question is also a
student of one of the Police colleges in Montreal and works part time as a
security guard for Concordia.

Anyway, when the gunman was talking on the phone to the police he put down
his gun for a few seconds and the professor hostage kicked the gun away
as he was close enough to do so. The security guard then jumped the gunman
and called out to the police waiting outside the room where they were held 
saying the gunman was unarmed. Quite a brave thing to do IMHO as the gunman
actually had had three guns, one of which he had dropped earlier, another 
which was empty of bullets (nobody new this of course) but he still had on 
him, and the gun he was using at the time. Perhaps the hostages didn't
realize how well armed the gunman was?

Unfortunately, 4 men and a woman had been shot before this. Three of the men
died and one is still in critical condition in the hospital. The woman has
been released from the hospital, she suffered a wound in her thigh. What's
really pathetic about this is that when alot of the people in the school
first heard the shots they new who was responsible without being told. The
university had known for quite a while the problems and threats that had been
made by the gunman and nothing was done about it. He had even made it a point
of letting people know he was getting himself a gun sometime before this.

Anyway, can't really do much about it now.

 Peter Carbon
 bnrmtl!carbon@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: davec@davinci.concordia.ca (Dave Chu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Killings in Concordia
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:51:22 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <89074@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> murray@what.gmr.com (Brian Murray) writes:
>Since this is a slow day...
>
   stuff deleted...
>went on a rampage and killed 2 people and injured three others
>yesterday.  The thread reads like a historical record of this tragedy!

   3 person have died from this tragedy, and all of them were not the ones
   that he had his greivances with as described in his messages.
>
>He was disarmed by a man he had taken hostage.  Interesting to
>speculate how...
>
   Dr. Fabrikant was over powered by one of his hostage when he put his
   gun down while negotiating on the phone with the police.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Moving during kicking
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:38:46 GMT

In article <3602@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.040220.16319@hou.amoco.com> zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore) writes:
>>Actually, I've seen *VERY* effective front/side kicks used while retreating
>>from an oncoming attackers, particularly by TKD artists. The back kick 
>
>	They run away, then reverse direction or stop and kick.  Not the 
>same as kicking while retreating.

What about jump kicks as you retreat?  A reverse jump front kick
flows pretty nicely as you are moving backwards.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:04:48 GMT
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.

Ouch.  Did you have to shout so much?

I'd be interested in the substance behind the advertising;  I hope
I mis-interpreted the part about the tapes - you didn't really mean
one should be able to learn a martial art from tapes alone, did you?

(There is no Greenoch; I know that, and I didn't mention it, either.)
-- 

< standard disclaimer >
                          INGRES, an ASK Company
John Simutis, simutis@ingres.com         Alms!  Alms for the vi-impaired!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand)
Subject: Re: Penn state, UP. Clubs?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:01:31 GMT

In article <92246.210129MAL112@psuvm.psu.edu> Mitch Lewars <MAL112@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Anyone know when the Penn State UP MA-clubs
>meet?  Thanx in advance for any and all information.
>     Mitch..
>MAL112@PSUVM.PSU.EDU

A friend of mine who's at Penn State (aka State Penn) would also like to know
this information. Specifically, he'd like to get in touch with the ninjitsu
club (if one exists).

Thanx,
 - Steve Weigand
  (weigand@ee.udel.edu)
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Moving during kicking
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:31:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3599
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <MARY.92Sep2174033@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>opponent first you "win", with people zipping around the ring on one
>leg with the other leg up in the air.  That "works" fine in a point
>tournament, but I don't know of any other circumstance in which it will.

	I sometimes fight a judo match on one leg: I stand on my right 
and hold my left knee up.  It's not as unbalanced as you'd think because
I'm holding on to my partner and it lets me sneak the leg in for, well,
leg techniques :-)

	I don't use it against good players, though.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: campbell@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Campbell Dickson)
Subject: Re: T'ai chi advice sought
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:41:55 GMT


stnahc@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (L. Chan) writes:

re:
what (Michael Robinson) writes:

>>
>>An instructor that teaches pushing-hands is better than one that only teaches
>>the solo form, and a teacher that teaches "da lu" and the fighting form is
>>better than one that only teaches pushing-hands.
>>
>>A teacher who learned in China is most likely better than one who didn't.
>>

>                          ^^^^^

> After years of internal martial art training, I can be quite sure to tell
> you that if the person who teaches Tai Chi emphasize that he/she learns
> that from China, then,

	..... stuff about the inadequacies of mainland China wrt TC.

>  I know that the sad truth that I just written will anger a lot of 
>      people who think they have learned the "real" thing. So, if you
>      don't believe me, just forget about what I have said.

	For what it's worth I've got the same impression from both people 
I've learnt T'ai Chi from.  

	I feel the critical thing in a good teacher is someone who can show you
what the t'ai chi circle is and how to use it,  and how to split someone's
timing.  (The five bows image in an earlier posting seems to be getting at the
same thing too.)  If you can't do those things, da lu and application sets won't
work properly for you,  and you might as well do karate.

Actually you'd be better off doing karate.



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Headlock escapes!
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 27 AUG 92 10:20:31    


pipkinsj@cpqhou.compaq.com (Jeff Pipkins ) writes:
>> >>another possibility is to ram your left knee into the back of your
>> >>enemy's right knee as you sit down.  your enemy will tend to fall
>> >>backward as a result, and may let go.  remember that this will leave
>> >>you both on the ground, and you must face a different kind of fight
>> >>than you may be used to.
> 
>> This is an intriguing suggestion!  Unfortunately, I haven't yet learned
>> how to make use of it.  It takes a little practice to gain the precision
>> necessary to hit the leg at the right time.  This was more difficult
>> with speed, but was doable.  The problem was that instead of falling
>> backward, the opponent would fall forward, carrying my head with them
>> to the mat.  

The variation I tried to describe a few posts back was the one that
comes from freestyle or catch-as-catch-can wrestling (where momentarily
going to your back isn't a problem as it is in collegiate style).

Instead of kicking the back of the knee, which takes tricky timing, you 
lock your near hip in behind the opponent's hip, and hit both hands sharply 
behind both his knees, then use a double knee grip from behind as you
sit back and roll onto your back, rolling him over you so you end up
in a near-ride on top.  It isn't really an escape, but it puts you in a
superior position for groundwork, it generally nullifies the
most dangerous aspects of the hold, and it is more reliable than techniques
based entirely on timing.  

Anyway, consider it as a 'surprise' tactic when others are failing, it
can be extremely unexpected and powerful.

						kind regards,

						todd
From: cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett)
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 03:26:37 GMT

In article <BtJoE6.2ns@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.135638.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> jkinnunen@sara.cc.utu.fi writes:
>>
>>  I remember seeing Elvis in a music document film wearing also black belt,
>>  allthough he did take some private lessons (but not that far).
>
>Elvis did get his black belt in Kenpo Karate under Ed Parker, after starting
>while in the armed forces.  Elvis also trained one-on-one with Bill
>Wallace for a few weeks in 1974.  In fact,  the King received an 8th
>Dan before his death (because of competition for his patronage between
>Parker and Kang Rhee, from what I've heard).
>
>Dakin
>burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>
I've always been under the impression that Elvis was in fact a 4th dan
in Tae kwon do. I can't remember the exact details but I'm sure I read
this in Black Belt magazine a few years ago. I remember that they
elevated him to honourary 8th dan when he died (although I *hate* it
when they do stupid things like that ).

I saw a movie last week called "Elvis and me" or something like that and
it showed Presilla Presley filming a TKD tournament for Elvis.

Anyway, he's dead and I never really liked his music.  Robert Smith
deserves to be elevated to 8th dan more than he did :-)


-- 
Graeme Bennett, Honours Student.     >>> graeme@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au <<<
James Cook University of North Queensland. 
--  
From: natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:40:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Interest
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


Hi LaVonne,

   Congrats on deciding to take a MA.  The best advice i have
seen on this net about which style to practice is to go to 
various schools and watch the class.  Do you like the instructor's
style? what's the ratio of men to wymen?  do they teach kids?
do you like praticing with kids? (I pratice my roundhouse and 
cresent kicks with a 7yr old who pratices's his rising blocks
and groin punches)
    I took up Shito-Ryu Karate because it is taught where I 
work,  I probably would have gone for a different style if
I had taking the time to look around.   Anyway there is somebody 
on this net that regularly posts a list of styles and their
trademarks,  Keep reading  and Good Luck
                        Natalie

_____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                            |
| Natalie Schuchard aka: Nate   mail stop : 270                              |
| HP - LSID                          at&t : (206) 335-2929                   |
| 8600 Soper Hill Road             hpdesk : NATALIE_SCHUCHARD/HPA100/UX      |
| Everett, WA 98205-1298             hpux : hplabs!hp-pcd!hplsla!natalies    |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
       Think before you throw, There's no such place as Away.
From: 00njhavert@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Indiana Dan Inosanto seminar in Sept.
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:24:25 GMT


	My sifu, the iron forearmed Keith Wetoskey, will be having 
another seminar with Dan Inosanto here in Indiana in September.
I keep forgetting to bring the particulars with me, but I'll post
them all soon. If you want specific information (directions or what-
ever) you can email me or post that you want them. I believe the seminar
is the 19th and 20th. Keith will also be having a seminar with Larry
Hartsell around Valentine's Day. Bring a date!

Keep it simple,

Nik Havert
Wetoskey Academy of Martial Arts
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: pitaro@joker.sanders.lockheed.com (Michael Pitaro)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kids in Judo
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:37:42 GMT
Reply-To: pitaro@rocket.sanders.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
In-reply-to: wrat@unisql.UUCP's message of 31 Aug 92 19:37:57 GMT

In article <BtpMF7.qx@hsi.com> mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft) writes:
   However, I was wondering if I could add to my little arsenal of things
   to do (exercises that are fun, but beneficial; games; judo specific games)

One game the kids like is "Steal the Bacon".  Fold up a belt to about
1 foot and knot it.  Place the "bacon" in the center of the ring.  Two
competitors try to steal the bacon and take it out of the ring without
being touched.  Once a competitor has touched the bacon, if the other
person touches him, he's out.  Also groundwork is allowed.  So one
strategy is to drag, roll or throw the opponent over the bacon.
Another strategy is to throw the opponent and then grab the bacon and
run.  Note that even a competitor on the ground can grab the bacon and
get away if they're fast enough.  They may also be able to touch the
standing competitor if they grab the bacon.  After a while we modified
the rules so that someone had to be thrown before an attempt at
stealing the bacon was made.  But forcing the opponent to touch the
bacon was still allowed before a throw.

Another game is good for foot sweeps.  The entire class forms a circle
holding sleeves with their neighbors.  At a signal everyone starts
trying to sweep or throw the others down without falling themselves.
One knee down or letting go of the sleeves and you're out.  As each
person falls stop the competition and close the circle.  When you get
to the last two competitors it becomes a simple randori.  Note that
teamwork can be a strategy with two players sweeping the player between
them.
--
Michael Pitaro                              Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
                                            PO Box 868, MER24-1583C
Signal Processing Center of Technology      Nashua, NH 03061-0868
pitaro@rocket.sanders.com                   603/885-9794 (Voice)
(or) ...!uunet!rocket!pitaro                603/885-0631 (FAX)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:19:57 +0000



Todd Stark writes:
[interesting intro deleteded]
>        The exception is the use of leg kicks.  Leg kicks often turn the
>        tables, because western boxing has no concept of dealing with
>        low line attacks, and they are both physically and psychologically
>        intimidating.


High kicks are a relatively recent introducation to karate - particularly
since it became a Do rather than a jutsu. That's not to say that high
kicks don't work, they can, it's just better to aim low - instep, shins,
knees, inside and outside of the thigh, groin all are excellent targets
and very hard to block. The only way to stop them is by evaision.


Take as an example the Kyokushinkai boys. In their knockdown tournaments
they stand very close (boxing range) and use leg deadening kicks to the
side of the opponents thigh to very good effect.


>        But as for the usual kicks to the head and body, they actually often
>        make it easier for the boxer to target his opponent.  You can evade
>        much more easily during punching than during kicking.  The closest
>        contests I've seen were those of hands against hands.


True if the kick is too high, a knee kick however is not much more
than a high step.


Having said that I still wouldn't like to face a boxer for real.


Bill Burgar.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Is anyone at SDSU??
Reply-To: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:57:36 GMT

A friend of mine goes to SDSU.  I was curious about the martial arts programs there.  Are they good?  What ones are there? etc...  If anyone could mail me 
info I would greatly appreciate it.  Thankes.

stiletto
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: T'ai Chi Info...
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:41:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Aug28.174117.18714
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

i am getting very interested in t'ai chi, mainly due to some of the 
post here as well as some very informative e-mail. unfortunately, there
is no t'ai chi instruction available, here in the scenic resort town 
of terre haute, ind. 

a while ago, thorick chow (do you still read this newsgroup?) had a video
tape on t'ai chi, which (i think) demonstrated the "push hands" exercise. 

does anyone know if/how i could get see that tape?

thanks,

mukund
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: T'ai Chi, final
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:42:31 GMT

>27-Aug-92 19:12 stnahc@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (L. Chan)	Tai Chi, final

>For any thing regarding this message, email me.

Boy, you rec.martial-arts folks are an unruly bunch o' cusses. Can't you
read?!

				*****

Anyway, Lawrence, I understand your skepticism, but you're being a snot.
I told you to visit Lu Ping Zhang for a reason.  

But in fact, you may be correct in a couple of ways.  First of all, I do
consider Lu Ping to be a _student_ (even though he is certainly a master
compared to me) of a still greater masters.  Your contention about 
whether the *real* t'ai chi is still taught however, is pure bull.

Case and point is the line of Yang's.  Fu Zhong Wen declared long ago that
he would teach no one.  Yet, he will send Xie Bing Chan, a 30-year devotee, 
to meet any challenges to the Yang style to this day.  My teacher is Xie
Bing's Chan's student.  They are very close.  Xie Bing Chan practices in
excess of 8 hours per day.  If we can get the Chinese government to permit
him to leave, Lu Ping has told me that I could invite any of the fiercest
fighters I know to challenge him.  

Also, by your own definition, Lu Ping *can* throw you away.  Go see him, go
feel him--your choice.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Cornish Wrestling & Judo 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:42:56 +0000


In article <BtwHGz.2Kx@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu writes:

>
>I've notice that photos of Cornish wrestling around 1900 show them
>wearing heavy jackets that look a lot like Judo tops.  This leads to
>a couple questions:
>
>1.  Who used these jackets first?

They may look the same, and may have become the same ( I know they
have in Han ) but originally they are unconnected.  Most agricultural
societies develop a loose fitting short sleeved jacket for working
in.

>2.  Could sailors/travellers from Cornwall have influenced Kano's
>    choice of gi?  Or vice versa?

The basics of Kano's choice of gi go back a long long way to times
when Europe did not even know of Japan, let alone have contact with
it.

>3.  Are there any books on Cornish Wrestling (by the way, I've seen
>    this described in Normandy as Gaelic Wrestling)?
>

There was a book published some years ago called (I think as I do not
have a reference to hand) ``English Traditional Wrestling''.  It covered
not only Cornish but Peak, Cumbrian and Welsh wrestling traditions.

Nigel
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