HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: Short Film - "Drawing the Line"
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:33:21 GMT

In <1992Nov7.093128.3020@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>The Northwest Film and Video Center is just now having their annual
>juried show of local independent film makers. So I went to see their
>main program (general program of short films), and was pleased to find
>two motss-relevant shorts (which I suspect most readers here will
>never get the chance to see - there's not much of a market for
>independent short films, is there?)

>The first was a film by Katherine Li of Vancouver, BC, titled
>"Sabina". The blurb says "5000 drawings come to life in this quiet,
>but spectacularly liquid piece of animation based upon a poem by Anais
>Nin. (7 mins)." 

>It's an impressionistic rendering of a romantic phone call between two
>people. One person moves through the telephone wires and melds with
>the other in various romantic and beautiful ways. The genders of the
>people were fairly ambiguous, but it seemed to me to be two women

I'll have to bring this movie to the attention of our film festival
committees.  Do you have any more information about it?

>The other motss-relevant short was "Drawing the Line", by Lorna
>Borschman of Vancouver, BC. "A documentation of a photo exhibition of
>the same name by Kiss & Tell, a group of lesbian artists, in which
>spectators/participants/voyeurs were invited to write comments on the
>walls about images depicting a range of sexual practices between
>women. Chock full of comments on the most debated aspects of erotica,
>Boschman's "Drawing the Line" effectively captures a pulse-taking art
>event. (7 1/2 mins).

>I wish I'd seen the original exhibit. The photographs ranged from very
>mild (clothed women holding each other in the woods), through
>explicitly sexual (naked humping women), to challenging images of S/M
>sex (a tied and blindfolded woman, some vaginal fisting, ...) The
>movie did its best to give us voyeuristic glimpses of the pictures,
>along with lingering views of what people had written next to the
>photographs and a few small interviews. Did anyone see the original
>art installation? What was it like?

The exhibit is coming to town here (Edmonton, Alberta) in the near
future.  I definitely intend to go see it.  Perhaps I'll post some
ruminations afterwards.  If I can find out any more exhibition dates
I'll post them.

-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 04:18:33 GMT


In article <mattm-091192165142@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Well, damn me!  I doubt even Anderson's ass can wiggle out of
>this one.  You've been crucified, Jezeboo.  Unless, of course,
>Tinkerbells cannot be Totalitarian because to be Totalitarian
>requires power, and Tinkerbells have no power...

This must be truth in packaging.  You actually *are* as big
a fool as you seem to be.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47338 alt.politics.homosexuality:7138 co.politics:1906
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:29:16 GMT
Organization: JPL, Space Imaging Radar Software Group


In article <1992Nov12.221645.25826@ncar.ucar.edu> 
gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

|>  In any case, I don't recall many blacks committing suicide because of the
|>  racism they suffered, and it's a lot easier to bash blacks than it is to
|>  bash gays.
|>

This statement tells a lot about Mr Strand...of his views of gays and of
racial minorities.

Gays often do not have family for support.

Young gays dont have many (any) positive role models.

Gay teens often feel that they must be the only ones.  That everyone else
in their world is straight. They are all alone.

Gay bashers often are adolecent males who have never met a gay person,
and only have stereotypical views of what a gay person is.


--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: susan@cs.tufts.edu (Susan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: At least write letters!!
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:54:13 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA


With the debate over the good of boycotting Colorado,
I get the feeling some people might not be doing anything,
or at least not know what to tell their friends and family to do.
 
I have a suggestion,

At least write letters and express your opinion about the outcome.

I see only good (no harm) in writing letters (and making phone calls) 
to express your opinion on the turnout of #2.  This can be done by all people,
in or out of the state, regardless of citizinship or age (unlike the vote).  
 
People have said to write and call but I feel that message
has been muddled by the boycott debate (among other things)
and I felt the need to stress 
 
        THE NEED TO VOCALIZE ONES OPINION
 
so once again, my plea is:
 
        EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO (ie boycott or not)
                YOU CAN STILL WRITE LETTERS ASKING COLORADO
                        COMPANIES TO HELP FIGHT #2!
 
just a thought.
 
-susan
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46447 soc.bi:14731
From: tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: What to do about Colorado
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:06:53 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Nov6.165031.11842@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM> bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett) writes:

>One very important reason Amendment 2 passed, despite the text of
>the proposition, was the way it was worded on the ballot.  My ballot
>simply said "Amendment 2: Gay Rights".  How many people do you think
>voted "yes" instead of "no" because of this?

So *that* explains it!  I was talking to a one of my regular tech support
contacts in Boulder yesterday.  When he said something like, "What's the
problem?" I took the opportunity to mourn a bit about Amendment 2.

He said, "Oh, yes, that's the gay rights one, right?"

Not sure I heard him correctly, I replied something like, "On the
contrary."  And he said, "Yeah, when you read through that thing, it *did*
have some parts that weren't too good after all."  I could only splutter
out something like, "No kidding."

What I can't quite figure out (in light of Terry's ballot description) is
whether he (a) is one of the many anti-quota, anti-"special rights", casual
thoughtless not-quite-phobes who finally, at the last minute, noticed the true
nature of this thing or (b) thought he was actually voting for gay rights.

In either case, the call for more education should definitely be heeded.

-- 
Tovah Hollander
tovah@panix.com -or- tovah@onion.salad.mssm.edu
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS pix
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:04:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov6.230441.22719
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky) writes:
>    
>    A) I was worried about my camera constantly hitting me in my 
>       masculinity.

No, no, *no*.  I absolutely _refuse_.


	Ellen, sitting on her hands

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Scott Masden
Date: 12 Nov 1992 14:34:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 21340@macc.wisc.edu, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <74428@hydra.gatech.EDU>
>danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram) writes:
>>     Does anyone remember Scott Masden, [...]

[...]

>Scott says hi to all his fans, by the way.
>
>-- 
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin

Do I take this to mean you know him?

Howard

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Say goodnight, George.
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: Amendment 2 passes
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 07:42:25 GMT

swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter) writes:
| 
| Well I don't know about anyone else, but I am sure to notify the Colorado State
| Government, as well as the resort areas of Aspen, Keystone, Copper Mtn. etc, 
| that due to this change, I will not be spending *ANY* money on vacations to
| their (un)fair state.  I would much rather vacation in a state where I am
| welcome.
| 
| I would suggest everyone do the same.

While I understand the sentiment, I think it is misdirected.
If your parents throw you out, do you "boycott" your whole
family, brothers and sisters as well as your parents?

Aspen, in particular, has long been very welcoming of lesbigay
folk. This coming Gay Ski Week (last week of January) will be
the *fourteenth* annual one. Aspen has had a sexual orientation
non-discrimination ordnance on their books for a while. Pitkin
County (which is basically Aspen and Snowmass) *trounced*
Measure 2 locally, 2026 (28%) for, 5178 (72%) against. Aspen
City Manager Amy Margerum, in commenting on the talk of a
boycott, said "We're not concerned about the potential loss
of sales tax revenue, we're concerned about the [false]
preception that Aspen does not welcome all kinds of people."

I, for one, feel welcome in Aspen, and intend to carry through
with my plans to go there for Gay Ski Week in January. I
also plan to talk to people there, and to write some letters,
and to let the businesses there know my concerns. But
boycotting a town which has been a longtime *friend* just
because their population of 5,000 didn't sway the election
results of the state---that just doesn't seem to me like
the moral thing to do.

Do you feel more welcome in Utah? Or were you thinking of
going to Mt. Bachelor in Oregon to celebrate the defeat of
the odious Prop 9? Speaking from ignorance about the local
specifics, I might speculate that since 9 was defeated in
oregon by a nice, but not a huge, margin (57%-43%, I think),
and since the lion's share of the "No on 9" votes came from
the Portland area, it could well have been approved within
localities such as Bend. I'd certainly be willing to put up
good money that Aspen voted more "welcomingly of the gay
community" than did Bend.

Please don't act rashly.

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Re: Lesbianville on 20/20
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:06:55 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <tdober-061192191155@toberkamper.llnl.gov>, tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
writes:
|> I think it would be more effective if the men would simply refrain from
|> sidetracking threads about topics of concern to women.

I agree.  However, this cluster-mine method of discussions breaking off of other
discussions is a hallmark of soc.motssn and, if fact, of USENET.  When the
discussions start as discussions of "women's issues," of course, the added and
offensive effect you discuss does exist.  But lots of discussions that never get
*near* women's issues fragment the same way.

One of the nice things about the structure of USENET is that you *can* continue
a discusion even if some of the participants have gone off to other things,
simply by posting a response that's on the subject.

Odds are pretty good that many men (and some women) will stop discussing the
core of a subject that started out on a women's-issue topic.  Does it matter
whether they leave and start a new subject, or branch the discussion?  I don't
know.

This is not at all meant to be a dismissive, "you-do-it" response.  But I think
it needed to be pointed out that, when folks start talking about something else
in the middle of a thread, it's as much blatant USENETism as innate sexism.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: carlton@husc11.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:04:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc11.CARLTON.92Nov10230448
Distribution: usa
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: cgross@.informix.com's message of 5 Nov 92 23:15:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.231552.4921@informix.com>, cgross@.informix.com (Cary Gross) writes:

> I cannot understand how anyone can truly call themselves a christian, yet 
> be full of so much hate.

Why?  It's no secret that such people exist, or that people differ on
what they think Christianity means.

david carlton,
who is sick of people's whitewashed views of "true" Christianity.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: soc
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:03:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.164747.11376@hemlock.cray.com> axtell@cray.com (Maureen 
Axtell) writes:
>
>Third, a boycott is not going to hurt CFV or affect the business leaders
>in any significant way.  It will not hurt everyone in the state, it
>will hurt the poor, a lot of women, racial minorities, and the gay
>community.  Every openly gay person here is going to have to wonder
>when their job will be lost, because their 'community' is 'helping'
>them by boycotting the company whose employing them.

This sounds a lot like the arguments against boycotting South Africa
because of its apartheid policies.  That boycott appears to have been
effective.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: German chaos continues
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:58:16 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <lg3668INNmup@news.bbn.com>, rrizzo@star-trek.bbn.com (Ron
Rizzo) wrote:

[quite a bit]

That was very well written.  The national media should do so well.
The situation in Germany is very, very dangerous.  I mentioned
this before...  Even at its worst, the Republican convention in
the United States only pretended to be as virulently hostile
to minority groups as the German Republicans.  And as Ron pointed
out, the situation looks to improve in the United States (with 
the Clinton win).  The situation in Germany looks to be moving
the other way.  I forget the name of France's Pat Buchanan - 
Le Pen, or something.  His ultra-right party has been gaining
some ground.

*X*
From: bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett)
Subject: Re: What to do about Colorado
Organization: Sun Microsystems Rocky Mountain Technology Center, Colo Spgs
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 16:50:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.034417.26763@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.224144.14823@ncselxsi.uucp> fisher@ncselxsi.uucp
>(Chuck Fisher) writes, pondering Measure 9's defeat in Oregon but
>Measure 2's success in Colorado:
>
>>It looks like a lot of folks got mobilized in Oregon.  I'm afraid
>>Colorado has some catching up to do.
>
>It's very easy for folks to blame Colorado activists for the defeat,
>to start saying "where were you?" or "I told you so" or "why didn't
>you do more?". (No, I'm not saying Chuck is saying this - he's been
>very polite. I've heard similar things from some other people, though,
>here on motss and elsewhere.)

The Colorado activists are not to blame, and I find it irritating that
anyone would even suggest this.  Just because no one bothered to tell
.motss what was going on (did it occur to anyone that Colorado has
very few frequent posters?) doesn't mean that action wasn't taken.
The EPOC strategy was very sound, but for a few reasons it didn't
work.  I'll post about the EPOC strategy itself later.

>But there are lessons to be learned from this. I hope that someone who
>knows about both campaigns can start making some comparisons, try to
>determine why we won in Oregon but lost in Colorado. I've got a couple
>of ideas of my own:

One very important reason Amendment 2 passed, despite the text of
the proposition, was the way it was worded on the ballot.  My ballot
simply said "Amendment 2: Gay Rights".  How many people do you think
voted "yes" instead of "no" because of this?

EPOC spent more than $750,000 fighting Amendment 2.  Most of that money
came from within the state, and support for this fight has been a 
terrible drain on other areas of the community here.  Instead of 
criticizing the people who worked on the campaign for not bothering
to keep you informed (I know, Nelson, you've not done this and this
isn't directed at you) if you were truly so concerned about the matter
here you could have gotten off your ass and made an effort to find out
yourself.

Criticizing the people who fought the fight and lost is counterproductive.
If "Colorado has some catching up to do" criticism such as this is not
helping us do it.

>nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker

Terry Bartlett			   bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM
Sun Microsystems		   "You've got to stand for something,
Rocky Mountain Technology Center    or you'll fall for anything..."
Colorado Springs, CO 80918         
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Colorado Addresses
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:40:10 GMT


Thanks to Tim Petlock (hi, ya big cutie!) for posting addresses
in Colorado.  I would like to see more such addresses, and in
as many of the more conservative parts of the state as possible,
especially in areas dependent on tourist income for their welfare.
I'm thinking of Durango and other places in the SW part of the state,
Colo Springs, Glenwood Springs, etc.

I'm about to go on a letter-writing binge.

Another list that would be good to have would be addresses
of large corporations (like Coors) that have their
headquarters in Colorado.  Somebody mentioned LL Bean, whose
main store is at the Mall of America in Minnesota, so that I
would suppose not to be the sort of outfit I mean.  What I'm
after is to know who's based in Colorado so that when I
would otherwise have made a purchase of their products
elsewhere I can inform the hochos why I supported their
competition.

I mean, I wouldn't drink that carbonated horsepiss Coors
calls beer in any case, but I figure I can write a letter to
them saying it appears more than a little cynical for them
to advertise so heavily in The Advocate unless thay can also
show me they made a major push to defeat CO-2, and that unless
they can do that, I will certainly not consider switching to
their brand.

Listening to Keith Jarrett play Bach (he's very good at it)
and getting ready to fire up FrameMaker and churn out
letters to the addresses I have,

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: homophobia on the net - rec.arts.movies
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:24:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov11.072405.15396
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov10.220222.21141@u.washington.edu> jtroxel@carson.u.washington.edu (Joseph Troxel) writes:
>Nonsense. You mean because he refers to breeders? or because he suggests
>that The Village People were talentless? What a newsflash!!

Talentless?  The "leatherman's" rendition of "O Danny Boy" brought
tears to my eyes.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: News From The OutFront... :]
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 00:41:24 GMT



*Text of letter sent to President-Elect Clinton from Congresswoman
Pat Schroeder*

Dear Governor Clinton

As we prepare for your new administration, other Coloradans and I look
to you for leadership on one of the most important issues of our times,
gay rights.  Yesterday, Colorado became the first state in the nation to
deny its lesbian and gay citizens equal rights.

The only way we can stem this tide of discrimination within our state or
nationwide is through passage of the federal gay and lesbian civil rights
bill, which has languished in Controll for eighteen years.  You have
committed to signing this bill into law.  As a simple matter of justice, I
will fight aggressively with you in the 101st congress for its passage
because, in Colorado, we have no time to waste.  We need the leadership
of the Federal government.

Patricia Schroeder
Congresswoman.

(Posted without permission.  All typos mine.  Void where prohibited by law.
No anchovies unless otherwise stated.  Originally appeared in the OutFront,
Denver's major GLBO newspaper, Volume 17, number 17, 11/11/92.)

--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
=You know, Colorado has a lot more to fear from a RadiKalFeministLesbianBitch =
=like me than I have to fear from either Colorado or "Them".  Carpe Diem! FWA!=
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Diane Bailey)
Subject: Text of proposed civil rights bill, request.
Reply-To: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:58:00 +0000



Does the proposed Civil Rights Bill have a wording yet?  If so
can someone post the proposed text here, or mail it to me for The
Stonewall Group, the UK lobbying organisation.

It seems to me of great importance that the president-elect has
undertaken to "support a federal gay civil rights bill that
respects freedom of religion by exempting religious organisations
and provides clear standards to be used in court."  As long as
the provisions and the wording of this are right.

You know, the way that Clinton was elected has impressed people
over here so much.  On the major network political forum
programme last night, politicians from every party were singing
his praises.  I just swear that if he came here and invited
Britain to become the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th states, it would
be approved by acclamation!

Anyway, brill!  Many congratulations.

Diane
dbailey@cix,compulink.co.uk