From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:01:03 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1993Jan7.070918.22863@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.093244.3495@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>See  point  3)  above.  While  getting measles naturally provides life-long
>>immunity,  taking  the  vaccine does not in any way guarantee it.
>
>The vaccine induces immunity for at least as long as it's been measured.
>Since it's only been in use for about 25 years or so, no one is going to
>say that it confers lifelong immunity.  There have been vaccine failures;
>some of these were found to be due to too early vaccination of infants
>and also from the vaccine in wide use before 1979, which used a different
>stabilizer.

In the UK infants are still vaccinated at three months. What is your
definition of too early?

>>If taking
>>the  vaccine  means  that  one is *more* likely to get the disease in later
>>years  during  an  epidemic then surely it would have been more sensible to
>>get  the  disease  earlier  in  life and not bother being vaccinated in the
>>first  place?
>
>Well, first, your assumption is false.

According to the references I gave you this was the case.

>Secondly, it would be preferable
>to have measles as a child, but only if it were completely benign, which
>it isn't.

The common cold isn't completely benign Steve.

>If it were, we wouldn't be immunizing children against it.

This is a poor excuse. Why do we immunize females against mumps and
males against rubella then? (Don't answer, this was a rhetorical question).

>>The references I gave in an earlier posting show that during
>>epidemics  many  of those that get the measles disease have been previously
>>immunized.
>
>This was in large part due to the older vaccine.


You've said it yourself. **In large part"**, i.e. not totally.

> What's more, the total
>number of individuals who suffer from measles-related morbidity (not to
>mention mortality) is much lower now, because the absolute incidence
>of measles cases is much lower.

You are screwing around with statistics. The number of cases of
measles related morbidity has *risen* among measles sufferers.

>>There  is  very  little chance of catching the disease from a live vaccine.
>>It  is  more  common that *other* people (usually family members) catch the
>>disease  from  their  immunized  children.  There  are a number of reported
>>cases  of  parents  who  became paralysed after their children had received
>>polio  vaccine.  If  you  are  going  to have your child immunised with the
>>live  polio  vaccine then it is sensible to take booster shots yourself. Of
>>course  the  incidence  of  transmutation  of the live polio vaccine into a
>>virulent  form  is  incredibly small, but that won't be much comfort to you
>>if you are paralysed.
>
>We were discussing measles; I find this swimming around of yours
>potentially misleading.  This is not an issue with the measles vaccine.

Perhaps you should find a newsreader that shows you the subject line as
well as the body of the article. *You* were discussing measles. The original
question was about MMR, DPT and Polio. That's why the title is "Vaccinations?"
not "Measles Vaccinations?". You are quite welcome to restrict your
discussion in any way you wish, just remember you are the only one being
potentially mislead.


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@btcs.bt.co.uk

    JOE, taxi driver: Unemployment will rise and sooner or later the
    masses will revolt against it. There'll be civil disorder and the
    further breakdown of civil society. The end result I hope will be
    the triumph of the people over capitalism. I also wouldn't mind
    if a few more people used taxis this year - '92 was rotten.

(Taken from "Hopes and Fears" in The Guardian, December 31st 1992, a
section which looked at what people saw 1993 bringing)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative