HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richard@harlqn.co.uk (Richard Brooksby)
Subject: ``Science will one day prove...'' (Re: Questions about other stuff(sorry, lousy title!))
Organization: Harlequin Ltd. Cambridge, England
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:02:45 GMT

jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jordan M. Wolbrum) wrote:

> 4) Will technology replace religion in the future?  Believe it or
> not, I think it will.  I think the public in general depends less on
> the concept of a God then ever before.  ...

Your definition of religion is narrower than that of many people.  Not
all religions involve God, a god, or gods.

> I also think that science will one day disprove the existance of a
> soul, ...

It is difficult to disprove the existence of something that is defined
to be beyond your capability to discern.

  soul: 1. the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being, often
  regarded as immortal.  ...              [Concise OED 1990]

Suppose I invent something called a `soel' and define it as `the
essential nature of a human being, beyond the capability of science to
detect'.  You are at liberty to assert your _beliefs_ about the `soel'
but you can't prove very much about it.
---
richard@harlqn.co.uk              (Internet)
RPTB1@UK.AC.CAMBRIDGE.PHOENIX     (JANET)
Zen Buddhist
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: morality????????
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:28:57 GMT

bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:

>In article <ednclark.720775035@kraken> ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:
>>
>>Call me fascist, authoritarian, militant and just plain nasty but IMHO just
>>2 dozen innocents killed for the preservation of the rights of millions is
>>fine by me. We accept the deaths of thousands to maintain the right to own a
>>car (i.e. if no-one owned cars or trucks or buses no-one would die in
>>traffic accidents) each year.  Utilitarianism (Spock's logic from Star Trek)
>>demands that such innocent sacrifice be made. Mind you I'd hate them to fry
>>me for something I didn't do just as much as I'd hate for some idiot to
>>smash his car into mine just because I want to use the roads, but I
>>treasure my right to a peaceful life greater even than my right to use a car. 
>>

>  I won't call you any of the above.  You make valid points.  As
>  with all analogies, the driving scenario doesn't fit the actual
>  circumstances well enough to be useful, though.  Everyone who gets
>  into a car tacitly accepts the dangers of driving.  There are
>  reminders all around them of that danger: seat belts, air bags,
>  roadside warning signs, etc.  When you are born into American
>  society, you do not have the chance to accept the small but
>  non-zero probability that you will be executed for a crime you did
>  not commit in order to preserve that society.  I doubt too many
>  people, if asked the question in that manner, would agree to those
>  terms.

Ahhh, but more innocent pedestrians are killed, more toxic chemicals are
released into the atmosphere breathed by non-drivers. I bet you more
non-drivers (i.e. pedestrians) have been killed per decade than in total
have been sent to the chair this decade. I beleive that the reason that
capital punishment has not been effective is because it hasn't been used
enough and normally as a defensive (or reactionary) measure by the society
rather than an offensive measure. Anyway I like the island idea the best.
>  And as I stated above, it has been proven time and again that
>  capital punishment does not provide a deterrent effect on
>  the homocide rate.  That leaves protection of innocent people as
>  the only role of the judicial sytem w.r.t. murderers.  Any
>  alternative that provides this protection then becomes an
>  acceptable solution.  Why then choose the ultimate and
>  irreversible one?

>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

>Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

>"Look, I tried the cat experiment.  On the third trial, the cat was
>dead.  On each of the subsequent 413 trials, it remained dead.  Am I
>doing something wrong?"
>			James Nicoll

>Q.  How many Heisenbergs does it take to screw in a light bulb?
>A.  If you know the number, you don't know where the light bulb is!


Jeff.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Subject: Re: What REALLY pisses me off about the Pro-Abortionists
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:16:44 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Oct31.035413.3374@ncsu.edu>, dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug
Holtsinger) writes:
> 
> I think it's far more tragic that people like yourself will
> gladly stomp all over the rights of other individuals to
> get material things like a college education.  

So, Doug, can we safely assume that you intend to immediately drop out of
NCSU and give the money that you would otherwise be spending on your
college education to feed starving children in Somalia?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
From: johnsd2@vccnw04.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:05:34 GMT
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccnw04.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 395@fs1.mcc.ac.uk, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>In article <dpn2.81.721284358@po.CWRU.Edu> dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
>
>>In article <19233.2afb10ff@levels.unisa.edu.au> 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Eidolon) writes:
>>>> If you don't so assume, I think that makes you a "Sophist" (sp?), right?
>>>> Don't believe ANYTHING wo/ proof, even your senses? Only thing you know
>>>> is that you exist?
>>>
>>>Yeah, if you ask me, that is a VERY self-important view to take, almost
>>>downright arrogant.
>
>Isn't that   "Solipsist"   ??  and if not, what's the difference?
>
>

The difference is that I have a rotten vocabulary, and no dictionary
within almost 20 feet. :)

>        Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty

An excellent idea!

It'll keep 'em guessing! :)

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Assertiveness of Non-divinity
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:24:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov08.212152.20899@bnr.ca> bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash) writes:
>How is logical proof different from scientific proof?
Scientific proof can involve empirical measurement and typically does.

>  Is math not scientific?
Yes, math is not scientific.

-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
From: censwm@cend3c7.caledonia.hw.ac.uk (Stuart W Munn)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: LYSDEXIA Rools (JOKE)
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:01:18 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

Did you hear about the dyslexic devil worshipers?

They sold their souls to SANTA!!!!
-- 
=========================================================================
Stuart Munn		DOD# 0717
Heriot-Watt University                  "The sky is BLACK . . .
Edinburgh                                therefore GOD, he is a St Mirren
Scotland, EH14 4AS                       supporter!!!"
031 451-3265
031 451-3261 FAX                        God may have a Harley . . .
E-Mail censwm@UK.AC.HW.CLUST            But the Pope rides a Guzzi! 
=========================================================================
From: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Assertiveness of Non-divinity
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:53:24 GMT
Reply-To: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <1992Nov8.222406.8994@cs.yale.edu>,
rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
|>In article <1992Nov08.212152.20899@bnr.ca> bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA
(Brian Cash) writes:
|>>How is logical proof different from scientific proof?
|>Scientific proof can involve empirical measurement and typically does.

But does it NEED empirical measurement?

|>
|>>  Is math not scientific?
|>Yes, math is not scientific.

Could you expand on this?

|>
|>-Ekr
|>
|>
|>-- 
|>----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
|>Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)             
rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
|>Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
|>                "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
               
Don't we use logic to form scientific theory?

science: 1)systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, etc.
         2)a branch of knowledge, esp. one that systemizes facts,
           principles, and meathods
         3)skill or technique

How are the first two different from logic?  (not all logic/philosophy
 is introspective).  

{side note: how is the last definition different from "art"? :-) }

Math quantifies and models reality: it helps us relate to what we observe.

Brian /-|-\
From: awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Proof that there will never be a 'Rapture'
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:17:58 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

Proof by Blatant Assertation that there can NEVER be a Second Coming/
Rapture or what have you.

Statment:					Reason:
1.  Jesus will return like a			New Testament.
    "thief in the night".  No one,
    verily, no ONE, will expect him.

2.  At any given moment, at least ONE		Blatant Assertation:
    whacko/fundy/person	 is predicting Jesus'    I hereby blatantly assertate 
    Second Coming (ie The Rapture (tm)).         that Jesus will return to the
                                                 earth as foretold today...
                                                 ....tomorrow...the next day...
                                                 ....the next day...etc...
                                                 ....ad infinitum...

Conclusion:
Jesus will NEVER have a 'Second Coming' because there is always at
least ONE person who expects it at any given interval of time.
Therefore, there will be NO RAPTURE while man is still alive and
thinking. 

-alan
From: epowers@kirk.NMSU.Edu (POWERS)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Is god worth it?
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:04:44 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University

In article <1dg92jINNie5@huon.itd.adelaide.edu.au> cbrasted@iti.org (Charles  
Brasted) writes:
> 4chua_l@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
> 
> >Would the world be a better place if religion was absent?  Isn't fighting  
over 
> >some supposedly infinite, immortal being beyond our conception worth it?  
> 
> >	I have been attending catholic institutions as far as I can remember.  
> >I did not particularly like the idea of religion being shoved down my throat 
> >without any reason.  I tried to perform a sort of "epoche" similar to the 
> >concept introduced by Husserland I concluded that yes it would be a better 
> >place.  I am curious as to what other people think about the fact that some 
> >do rely heavily on religion to direct them in their lives.  
> >     
> >responses are welcome at 4chua_L@spc.edu
> 
> Yes, but if there were no religious groups, what would all the social  
cripples
> do on weeknights and weekends? 
		
	I hear a bird calling "cheap shot, cheap shot!"  I think it's a  
whippoorwill!
					Erik Powers
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only)
Subject: Re: Assertiveness of Non-divinity
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:25:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.202026.28765@nmsu.edu> epowers@mccoy.NMSU.Edu (POWERS) writes:
>
>Everything I've seen in this discussion assumes that evidence for the existence  
>of God must be scientific in nature (falsifiable hypotheses, etc.).  Please,  
>people!  I can't even prove I exist in a scientific manner!
>
>						Erik Powers

Then please, stop posting until you can ;-)

But seriously, please answer this question which I have raised before:
If God nor the effects of his actions can be detected (known or experienced),
then why do you imagine Him to exist?  What reasons do you have?

-- 
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head
But it's not me            -- Pink Floyd
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Is god worth it?
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:21:30 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <1992Nov2.214108.4305@spcvxb.spc.edu> 4chua_l@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:

>Would the world be a better place if religion was absent?  Isn't fighting over 
>some supposedly infinite, immortal being beyond our conception worth it?  

I think it'd end up about the same, but with a little less hypocricy.

  You don't have to work to be mad here      email: d.budd@mcc.ac.uk
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033
From: cnc@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Christopher Christensen)
Subject: Top 10 Reasons to _NOT_ bash Fundies
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Nov 92 06:27:49 GMT

[this was inspired by Maddi Hausman's excellent
TOP TEN REASONS TO KEEP ON BASHING FUNDIES]


TOP TEN REASONS TO _NOT_ KEEP BASHING FUNDIES
---------------------------------------------

10. Shame on you for bashing the mentally impaired!  Don't you know
    you can't match wits with a half-wit?

 9. Any more mental dissonance could kill them, or worse, send them off
    the deep end.  No, I mean the _REALLY_ deep end..

 8. If we ignore them, maybe they'll get bored and go away.

 7. Let "real" xians do it for us.

 6. Fundie assertions too idiotic to merit a response.

 5. No self-respecting atheist's beliefs are shaken by fundie
    drivel/dogma.

 3. What a waste of time, bandwidth, and logic.

 3. One phrase:  beating a dead horse

 2. Newspaper headline:
    "Fundie reads atheist newsgroup, goes crazy; kills 27;
    says, <your name here> made me do it"

AND THE #1 REASON TO _NOT_ KEEP BASHING FUNDIES IS:

1.  Gnawing fear that this fundie thing is all a joke aimed at the
    humor impaired; "they're all laughing at me!"


DISCLAIMER
If you don't find it funny, my condolences... err, I mean, my apologies.

cheers

--
|  Christopher  |  Computer Engineering graduate student, UC Irvine  |
|  Christensen  |  cnc@balboa.eng.uci.edu                            |
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Fundie Humor! (was Re: Top Ten Reasons to Bash Atheists)
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:10:57 GMT
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things

rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith) writes: >
>I will attempt to improve the humor presented in some recent attemps.

You did not succeed.
>
madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: >>
>>A travelling secular humanist salesman has a flat tire and asks a
>>Christian farmer if he can stay the night until he can call for help.
>>The Christian tells him not to bother, because God won't help him!
>
>A traveling secular humanist salesman has a flat tire and asks a
>Christian farmer if he can stay the night until he can call for help.
>The farmer tells him he is welcome to stay the night [hospitality]
>however God placed the farmer here to do the work of the lord 
>[charity] and he has already phoned his daughter[equality, and you can't
>have a farmer and travelling salesman joke without the farmers daughter]
>who works as a mechanic for AAA, and the salesman should be back on the
>road in less than half an hour[also no sex in a joke of this type].
>
>I started out with ``Christian'' as a modifier in the [] comments
>however I deleted it as I meant true hospitality etc. Rather than the
>oft experienced racist type behavior of Christians.

Yeah, but now it isn't funny to anyone!  You've turned it into a
"Sun Rises in East" story.  Okay, one more joke:

A Christian reads an anti-fundamentalist joke on an atheism newsgroup.
The Christian is offended and attempts to redo the joke to show the
virtues of Christianity, such as hospitality, charity and religion.
The atheists all laugh because the Christian, while not being a
hate-mongering bigoted know-nothing, doesn't have much of a sense
of humor.  His redone "joke" is now a awwwwwww cutesy story.  Then 
the atheist satirist writes another joke that makes him look silly.

"It's funny 'cause it's true!"

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.

Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553
From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Prayer Is School
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:45:42 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov  5 1992

Who: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
ID: 1992Nov3.161947.21895@digi.lonestar.org
And: Brian Kendig
 
BK> Are we really on the road to becoming a theocracy? If (heaven
BK> forbid) Bush wins tomorrow, will Pat Robertson find himself
BK> suddenly with a lot of leverage?
 
GP> "Brian, your fears are exagerated.
 
[65 lines of utter bullshit by Gerry Palo deleted.]
 
GP> "Theocracy, Brian? The material universe forbid. But let's get
GP> rid of our atheocracy in education as well. Cheers, Gerry Palo
GP> 73237.2006@compuserve.com"
 
What innane crap! What utter ignorant, brain-dead rationalizations!
 
The education system is put in place to EDUCATE people, so that
they may add positive input to the Commonwealth. If the citizenry
is not educated, they drag us all down!
 
Your metaphysical phantasy, which you went on at length without
saying anything everyone hasn't hear less than a thousand times
before, does not BELONG in the education system. Take your New Age
bullshit and practice it in your churches, shuls, circles, sacred
groves, and other places where it DOES belong.
 
Why the bloody hell is it that Christian parents are so UNABLE to
teach their children "Christian ideals" that they must demand that
they be taught in public schools, instead of in the home? Are
Christians that inept? Do Christians prefer strangers educate their
children in the parents' religion, instead of the parents themselves
teaching them?
 
Suppose my daughter, a Satanist, wishes to pray to Satan, while
sitting next to your child in school? Just suppose The Comming
Theocracy mandates prayer in school---- how many chicken sacrifices
do you want your child to see? How many Setian children would you
have your child watch ritually masterbate? Do you want your child
to watch Mohawk children light up tobacco and offer the pipe to the
Four Winds?
 
Christian reverand Jim Jones distributed Kool Aid to children,
telling them it was deadly poison, and that to drink it showed
absolute devotion to Jesus. Now suppose, being Christian and
thus politically powerfull, his church succeeded in mandating
that your child be forced, in school, to participate? Would
you be supporting school prayer?
 
If "Yes," then you're a bloody lunatic.
 
If "No," then you understand why forced prayer in school is
to be opposed by every means, fought against, tooth and claw.
 
Your fucking occultism, Mr. Palo, belongs in your fucking cult,
not in the public school system!

--- Maximus 2.00
From: Rollo.Ross@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: unisa.system
Subject: Re: AARNet access from PC/Mac pools
Date: 7 Nov 92 07:49:45 +1030
Organization: University of South Australia

In article <19229.2afae444@levels.unisa.edu.au>, 8942227g@levels.unisa.edu.au
writes:

> Since games like MUD are the worst culprits as far as AARNet is involved (and
> as much as I love them they ought to be stopped) Is it possible to limit
> anonymous ftp to "read only"?  This would stop users being able to interact
> with muds and also stop the forged mail messages.  
	I don't know of any way of playing MUD or forging mail with ftp. If 
there is a way, please let me know!

> The thing is that there are many useful applications available out there,
> but the only way to get to them is through anonymous FTP.  
	We're not running a free computing service with access to thousands 
of bulletin boards around the world - we're running a computing service to 
support the University's teaching and research functions. We have to
concentrate our time and our dollars on helping the users who are doing
"approved academic work". In most cases, this doesn't include collecting
stuff from Internet sites around the world - if your lecturer wanted his
class to have that stuff, he would have collected it for you.
	The reason for blocking PC pools from AARNet access is to try to 
cut down on the amount of inappropriate usage of AARNet facilities (and 
of the PC pools, as a side benefit). We're not likely to provide a way to
make inappropriate usage easier again.

					Rollo Ross
#! rnews 2858
From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Eidolon)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: morality????????
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:57:10 +1030
Organization: That damn kid is still here!

In article <1d3nt2INN7m6@shrike.und.ac.za>, dace@shrike.und.ac.za
(Roy Dace) writes:

> : Capital punishment should be administered only if there is no doubt.
> IMHO, there is NEVER `no doubt'.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here. No
doubt the world has heard of the latest massacre here?

(it seems to me that gun murders here are like plane crashes,
you get hardly any, then all of a sudden, crazed gunmen are
knocking people in half dozen lots at a time...)

In this and a few other massacre cases here there was NO doubt
they did it, the police saw them do it, others saw them do it,
they confessed to doing it and one even came up and told them of
bodies the police didn't find! Now how can you say that there is
doubt in these cases?

However, I am still against the death penalty since the times
when there is no doubt are few and far between, innocents have
been killed for less. Even if the death penalty was introduced
they'd be so rare that they would have little to no effect in
reducing capital crimes. They would instead get life sentences,
where 'life' actually means they are in jail till proven innocent
or death of natural causes. I think it's the reduced time spent
in prison that's helping the crime rate go up, not the lack
of eye-for-an-eye justice.

For Mr Clark:
I think the group exists to protect the rights of the individuals
who make it up, so if an individual's rights are trampled on to
protect the majority, expect to see a large number of people trying
to leave the country. Witness the Soviet Union! An individual had
nearly no rights, all that mattered to them was the society as a
whole! As for the Spock scenario, Spock CHOSE to go in their; what
kind of reaction would you give if someone said
"HEY YOU, GET IN THERE SAVE US!" ?

  "The day we decide that the government is our brother's
   keeper, that day the spirit of compassion will be lost.
   If we abandon private charity, we will have lost something
   of [America's] material, moral, and spiritual wealth."
                          Herbert Hoover
-- 
John J McVey, Whyalla, Uni S. Australia    9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Electronic Engineering student & Terror Tekkie!
Any email can be posted unless I state explicitly otherwise.
+-----------------------------------------------------+    ________
|  Obligatory disclaimer: UniSA hates my opinions...  |  \/Darwin o\
+-----------------------------------------------------+  /\________/
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it. Marquis
#! rnews 4053