From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: What is Christianity
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 01:35:58 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec14.195110.4076@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Dec15.021507.9103@bnr.ca>
  <1992Dec17.170554.25844@cs.cornell.edu>

9212.18 e.v. (barely)


I'm getting tired of these very poor answers.


Roderick Moten writes (much omitted):

|> |>|> >What does it mean to be a Christian?
|> |>|> 
|> |>
|> |>I'm trying to find out the criteria people use to qualify someone as a
|> Christian.
|> |>

You are right that many people who answer "yes" to the question "Are you a Chri
stian" know very very little about the Gospels.   In order to be a Christian on
e must be a follower of Christ.  So everyone who says they are a Christian is n
ot necessarily a Christian.  In order to follow Christ and be like Him, you hav
e to be born again or born of God.  For more information on the criteria for be
ing a Christian, read John 3:1-5, Romans 12, Ephesians 4 and I John. 


Response:

From John 3 (KJ, I figured any old version ought to do or the lot are trash):

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God."


By themselves these are ambiguous.  However, look at the verse which
follows immediately...

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit."


I think the key lies in the fact that the first 'Spirit' is capitalized
and the second, 'spirit', is not.  The first regards nondualism.  The
second implies a 'spirit' opposed to 'matter'.  Thus one must be born
unto the world which is Unity in order to be Christian.  No small
task.  What does this feel like?


Anything said by Paul is right out.  Paulism is not Christianity.
But I'll go as far as looking in I John:

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments is a liar,
and the truth is not in him.

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected:
hereby know we that we are in him.

[Some stuff about God not being the flesh because the flesh passes
away and is of the world omitted]

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,
and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the
love of God in him?

"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but
in deed and in truth."


This much seems reasonable.  Truthworthiness, honesty, compassion.


"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name
of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us his
commandment.


Now what can this mean?  'believe on the name'?  This one's had
me bedazzled for years.  Anybody help me out?  Don't go trying to
sell me that old shoe wax of 'believing the right things'.  This
don't have to do with mental gearstoppage.  This isn't about
mouthing the right words or clogging our heads with dogma.  I
figure it may relate to trusting others as long as they relate
to us that they have the commandments dear to their heart.


Roderick:

|> Two questions for you, Rod:
|> 
|> 1) What do you think is "denouncing" Christ?
|>    (see above)

Not expecting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.  You have to except Him as
Lord and Savior not only Saviour. 


Response:

Expectation speaks of a FUTURE Heaven.  Poppycock.  If it ain't here and
now then it'll never be.  What could 'Lord' mean?  Wisdom?  Our passkey
through paradox?  Savior seems clear enough - a vehicle ('yana') to the
Other Shore if ever I saw one. ;>


Roderick:

|> 2) What criteria do you use to qualify someone as a Muslim?

From what I was told by Muslims, one who submits to Allah.


Response:

How do you verify ANY of these things about either Christians or Muslims?

If you can't verify them, then you must simply watch them and come to
know (over time) whether they 'keep the commandments'.  Ok.  What will
you watch for?  When can this decision be made?  How and when can you
be sure if another is or is not a Christian more than in name?  And a Muslim?

Do you get JC to tell you?  How about Allah?  Will he answer collect
calls?  I think that the whole 'label and condemn' game is a crock
of shit and I'm here to expose it.  Please put up or shut up.  Thanks.


Thyagi
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism