HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:40:48 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <13NOV199211382963@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Two copper pyramids glued base to base with sap) writes:

>You seem to be oversimplifying the situation to support an argument that
>the foil is always bad. 

Your are absolutely right, in this kind of a discussion every one of us
is oversimplifying. The big difference is the size of the boat and the
type of rigg and then hte use of hte whole thing, cruising or racing.

>You probably wouldn't try to convince us that coffee
>grinders are bad/not worth the money/unreliable because you don't find them
>on a j-24. On his S2, any time you are bareheaded you can't go upwind at all.

Very often the change of the fore sail is done during some other manouvers,
at least I try to do it while I am on the run or a spinnaker reach. So it
will not hurt me as much.

>Even without fumbling, you still have to get all those hanks off (and more
>hanks than on a j-24) after you drop the jib. Ok, maybe it's not 40 
>boatlengths,but even if it's 10 additional boatlengths, you go with the foil.
>Besides j-24's hardly ever change headsails in the middle of a leg. 

Even if I had a foil, I would avoid it.

>By the way, did this get out? I think my news system is unreliable.

At least I am reading you loud and clear.

- Lauri Tarkkonen





>Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
>Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>>Here comes a jet ski.
>>weuh weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh weuh
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scairns@is.morgan.com (Scott Cairns)
Subject: Re: boat drinks
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:09:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.224008.9918@leland.Stanford.EDU>, stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
|> In article <1252@tekcae.cax.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) writes:
|> >>As a passing reference, I recently saw a TV program about the Carribean where
|> >>grog was said to be the acronym for 'Good Rum Of Grenada'. Anybody know if
|> >>this is true? I.e. when did the Royal Navy start to use the term 'grog'?
|> >
|> >It's false.  Grog is named after a certain Captain Grog whom was
|> >the first to cut the rum ration...
|> 
|> Didn't Humphrey Bogart play Captain Grog in a movie about a WWII minesweeper?
|> Seriously, folks, grog was named for Admiral Something-or-other of the 
|> Royal Navy who was a bit of a party-pooper and first started watering down
|> the hooch. His nickname was "Old Grog" becuase of the grogram (a kind of coarse
|> fabric) cloak that he wore on deck. I'll look up the details in the Oxford
|> Companion when I get home.
|> 
|> Stefan

I can confirm Stefan's account regarding the origin of the term "Grog" as related
to the cloak that the Admiral who issued the order wore.  It's in a book I'm 
reading on the British Virgin Islands (where I'm headed next week!) on the origin
of Pusser's Rum.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Scott Cairns           	|   email: scairns@fsg.com         |
| Fusion Systems Group		|      or: scairns@is.morgan.com   |
| New York, New York, USA   	|                                  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Standard disclaimers apply.   				   | 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks |
| his head out the window coming home, his face might burn up.     |
|    					- Jack Handey		   |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: A social problem
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:14:30 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

John F. Hughes writes:

	Any suggestions? Any ideas *why* these people cannot imagine 
	a healthy woman in her 30's rowing a boat?

Leave it to the wife to respond -- if at all -- its her problem, not
yours. Male protectiveness is the other side of the sexist coin. Who 
cares why? There are assholes everywhere.

							Fido
From: v081jqgf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (STEVE PULVER)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Farr Keels
Keywords: Bulbs
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <4035@phred.UUCP>, mattp@phred.UUCP (Matt Pedersen) writes...
> 
>   Has anybody seen either of Bruce Farr's new IMS boats hauled
>out (I'm thinking of the 40 and 44 -- Cookson's High Five and
>Gaucho respectively)?  If so, could you describe the shape of
>the bulb at the bottom of the keel?
>   Is the cross section of the bulb:
>   1) Round
>   2) Oval (round sides and flat top and bottom for an 
>      end plate effect)
>   3) Bell shaped
>   4) Flared, in a triangular shape
>   5) Similar to a Scheel keel shape 
> 
>Inquiring minds want to know
> 
>Matt Pedersen     pilchuck!mattp@phred

I read about these boats in Yachting World (British Racing Publication).  I
can't say for Cookson's, but I can answer for Gaucho.  Gaucho has a Deep fin,
no bulb, draft 8' (I believe, I don't have the mag with me), she had six
inches cut off her previous keel to reduce her draft penalty (new IMS rule).
Gaucho's new sister-ship, the second generation 44, ( I don't recall the name)
has a bulb, simpley according to YW because her owner keeps her in a shallow
marina.   The picture showed it from straight ahead (from the bow looking back)
as she was being hauled out. If I remember correctly it was kinda rectangular.
Something like this:        
                          | |
                          | |  <--bottom of the fin (approx. 7.5 ft.(?))
                          | |
                         /   \
                        |     |
                        |_____|    <--flat bottom on "bulb"

According to YW, this doesn't make her any faster than Gaucho, it was simply
for practical purposes.  


Steve Pulver
--bowman, Aftershock (N/M 36)--
From: jeff@unix386.Convergent.COM (Jeff Beckmann)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Mounting transducers without a thru-hull
Keywords: depth sounders, transducers, mounting
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:38:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unisys/Convergent, San Jose, CA

larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift) writes:

<snip>

>And BTW, I love the sounder.  Works ever so much better
>than the old one and has the right set of functions.  Eg,
>I was surprised to find that steering a depth curve is
>much easier when the sounder gives accuracy to the tenth
>of a foot.  (As in the Intracoastal, in the middle of fog!)

Could someone explain what a depth curve is?

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT)
Subject: New challengers for America's Cup
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:01:00 GMT

I read in the paper this weekend that five challengers posted the money
required to challenge for the America's Cup just prior to the deadline.  I
don't have the article with me, but I believe the new challengers included
a group from Great Britain, as well as second groups of challengers from
France, Australia and New Zealand.

Also included was a first time challenge from South Africa.  They are now able
to compete because the international ban against sporting competitions with
South Africa has been lifted.  Since it has been such a long time since South
Africa has competed in international yacht racing, South Africa had no 470
sailors to send to the Olympics.  Their Olympic trial were held in Fireballs,
and the winners had to learn to sail 470s just weeks prior to the Olympics.  I
think there was an article about this in Sailing World a few months ago.

Anyway, I believe that the total number of challengers for the 1995 Cup is
now at eleven.  The article didn't mention any people, but it did list the
names of the challenging yacht clubs.  I can post the club names if anyone
wants them.

Does anyone have news about the American defenders?  I hope it's more that
just Bill Koch and Dennis Conner defending the Cup next time.

Kent Leverich
Texas A&M University (still stuck at #4 in the polls)
Lido 14 #3549
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:50:48 GMT
Subject: Re: A Charging Question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett) writes:

    An alternator requires some field current, drawn from the battery, in order to
    work, so I would not be surprised to see no output with no battery connected.
    Once the alternator is running it will supply it's own field current, and, if
    the battery is then disconnected, the output voltage may rise so high that the
    rectifier diodes will be destroyed.  With a battery connected, the battery
    serves as a sufficient load to hold the voltage within safe limits.

    With the battery connected, and the engine running, you should see about 14.2
    volts if the battery is near full charge, less if the battery is low.

Peter, are you saying that if I connect a battery, start the engine,
and then disconnect the engine, that I might blow tha alternator?  I
don't think there is anything in the manual for the outboard under
discussion that says this, but I will certainly check.  Also, if what
you say about the lack of output voltage is correct, then my advice to
Fido (or was it Felix this time?) was wrong--especially the bit about
talking to his EE department, since it was an EE I went to for advice
in the first place:-)

Any definitive answers out there?
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Engine Intake Silencers
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:26:08 GMT
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division

On 18 Nov 92 17:28:11 GMT, billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington) wrote:

>Attention powerboaters (and sailors with inboards)... 

>My recently installed Perkins M20 is a wonderfully 
>smooth engine, but speaks rather loudly in a deep 
>baritone.  And it's installed in a boat (an Olson30) 
>whose acoustics are similar to those of an oil drum.  
>So, even though the engine box is insulated everywhere 
>but under the engine, a good deal of noise permeates 
>the cockpit when underway.  I noticed the other day 
>that as I moved my hand toward the air intake, the 
>baritone noise diminished.  The intake has no air 
>cleaner or silencer, just a grate in a roughly 1.5" 
>square tube.  What's involved in fabricating a silencer 
>and what are the chances that it will do some substantial 
>good?  

I would be very tempted to experiment with attaching a well-reinforced
flexible tube to the air intake, so that the air is drawn from another
area in the engine box.  It's often amazing what a plain tube will do
to reduce the noise level.  The tube itself frequently produces a
mellowing of the intake noise.

BTW, don't put the intake very much lower in the boat than its current
location.  You don't want your diesel to suck water if you get a
bilgefull.

>Thanks,
>BILL COURINGTON

--
--
 Bob Rusk
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: WEBER@JEDI.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (Kevin Weber)
Subject: Re: Outboard Problems
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: 78-30
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:36:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.145055.15383@zehntel.com>, mikeg@zehntel (Mike
Goldstein) wrote:
> 
> I am having a problem with a 1981 Evinrude 140 (non-VRO).
> It starts fine, runs okay, accelerates fine, but after a few
> seconds at high speed it drops dead - doesn't run rough or cough, 
> just stops cold. It restarts fine. 
> Any ideas? I suspect the fuel pump. I was alone with it so I couldn't
> pump the primer bulb while it was running to test this theory. What
> else should I look for?? The boat is drydocked now until spring.

I had identical problems with a perforated fuel pump bladder.  It'll run
forever in neutral and even up to around 1000 RPM, but lay into it runs dry
after about 1 to 4 seconds.  Turns out the perforated bladded was caused by
insufficient cleaning of the internal fuel tank during assembly.  Chips of
aluminum perforated my fuel filter then the fuel pump.  Had the tank
drained and cleaned.  There was about 100 small chips in the tank.  

To test this out, remove your fuel filter and try running the motor.  If it
still happens it's probably the pump.

BTW, it's always a good idea to install a second heavy duty, high capacity
fuel filter between the tank and the motor.  I learned my lesson.



kevin weber    
==============================================================================
The greatest sign of intelligent life in the universe is the fact that they
have not yet tried to contact us.
                                     Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
==============================================================================
From: alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Zincs on boats
Keywords: corrosion
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:22:43 GMT

The zincs on your boats are "sacrificial" electrodes
to protect the rest of the metal on/in your boat.

Water (especially salt water) is an electrolyte. When
dissimiliar metals are suspended in it, their differences
cause a current to flow between them.  The metal that
is giving off electrons will corrode and wear away. This
can be hull plates, the inside of your engine, pitting
on your prop or rudder, whatever.   

Zinc is a "less noble" metal that gives up electrons
easily.  By electrically connecting the zincs to the
rest of the metal in your boat, you are able to predict
where corrosion will take place.  It's a lot cheaper to
replace a zinc than an engine!

Something to think about: a zinc can only protect parts         
are electrically bonded to it.  This is one reason why
bonding is so important on boats.  If something is isolated
from the zinc, then it will corrode  on its own.

One reason why a lot of you are having your zinc go fast
could be your electrical shore tie.  My experience is that
the currents induced by poorly installed battery chargers
really eat up zincs. You would be wise to make certain that
the installation is done to the manufacturers standards 
without cutting any corners.

This is mostly first-hand knowledge without a lot of 
technical research.  I used to change zincs for people, and
spent over 10 years as a Coast Guard Electronics Tech.  
Bonding is very important, and sacrificial zincs are an
inexpensive investment in the rest of your boat.

Your pal,
AL


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts ~)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Intel Corporation -- Aloha, Oregon
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:57:31 GMT

In article <49v19va@rpi.edu> floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>(lastline)
>In article <ZIELKE.92Nov16104430@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil> zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:
>>

	********* stuff deleted to save bandwidth *********

>>zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
>
>Is the pencil zinc considered a 'consumable' then? Is there a suitable
>replacement material that would not corrode at all or as much?
>
>My knowledge of electrical systems is limited to house wiring and 
>electronics, by I would guess the combination of saltwater and
>electricity is causing corrosion, correct? Why is this important
>to the working engine?
>
>barry
>

Zincs are indead a 'consumable'.  The reason you have a zinc on any metal
parts coming in contact with salt water is because of electroliis (sp?).
The zinc is a soft metal and corrodes away, thus saving metal parts (like
your engine) form corroding.  Nifty little trick.  All the commercial
fishing boats that I know of use zinks not only on the engine, but also
on trolling wires (wire rope), skegs, any metal parts that spend any
time in the salty brine.

					Fish to Live, Live to Fish
					   'Fish Assassin' Mark
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:07:34 GMT

floydb@rpi.edu writes:

>Is the pencil zinc considered a 'consumable' then? Is there a suitable
>replacement material that would not corrode at all or as much?

Yes.  You *want* the zinc to be consumed.  The alternative is for other,
more imoportant parts to be damaged.  The zincs are what's called
a "sacrificial" anode.   Materials that corrode less work less.

>My knowledge of electrical systems is limited to house wiring and 
>electronics, by I would guess the combination of saltwater and
>electricity is causing corrosion, correct? Why is this important
>to the working engine?

Nope.  The combination of an electrolyte (seawater) and dissimilar metals
(the heat exchanger and engine) causes electricity.  This in turns causes
elecrolysis to waste the anode.

Hope that helps.

cheers,
gerard

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: olson30@netcom.com (John Sully)
Subject: Re: More MOORE 24 Swimmers
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:00:59 GMT

truher@netcom.com (Joel Burke Truher) writes:


>So my friends are thinking, "Moore Moore Moore Moore" and I
>wonder how many netters sail one of these twenty-four
>foot rockets?  Where's a good fleet to check out?

The *only* good fleet to my knowledge is in Santa Cruz, home
of the Moore 24.  Typically a dozen or more show up for the
monthly one design races put on by SCYC from April to October.

There were about 156 of the little buggers built and to my mind
it is the finest of the (small) Santa Cruz ULDB boats (SC27, O30,
etc.).  They sail well, are controllable and go like stink in light
or heavy air.

BTW, Moore's Reef is closing up at the end of this month and may
not have any place to go.  The end of an era??

John Sully
From: Konrad.Koenig@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Konrad Koenig)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Radio Active Waters ?
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 01:56:00 -0800

Ostensibly..... to become completely self sufficient from an energy
pointof view by manufacturing (producing) their own power and
electricity from enriched plutonium.

Do you think it is worth the risk of 50 such voyages that could result
in deadly radio active contamination swilling around in the seas for a
few hundred years if she was shipwrecked... like a storm, hurricane,
collision over 15,000 miles.

Can this planet tolerate such a risk ...?
From: mattp@phred.UUCP (Matt Pedersen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Farr Keels
Keywords: Bulbs
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:26:22 GMT
Organization: Physio Control Corp., Seattle WA


   Has anybody seen either of Bruce Farr's new IMS boats hauled
out (I'm thinking of the 40 and 44 -- Cookson's High Five and
Gaucho respectively)?  If so, could you describe the shape of
the bulb at the bottom of the keel?
   Is the cross section of the bulb:
   1) Round
   2) Oval (round sides and flat top and bottom for an 
      end plate effect)
   3) Bell shaped
   4) Flared, in a triangular shape
   5) Similar to a Scheel keel shape 

Inquiring minds want to know

Matt Pedersen     pilchuck!mattp@phred
From: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: The British Steel Challenge (Results to Rio)
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:04:32 GMT
Reply-To: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk (OBSchou)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

Below, copied results from the British Steel Challenge (Whitbread race
backwards) from a FAX several days ago.  All errors are mine, sorry.

I have been trying to get this read in some machine readable form, including
maps etc.  Just watch this space (but it may take some time...
***

The British Steel Challenge
(BT Race Communications)

Report: 241
Compiled at 06:47 GMT 3rd November 1992
Race Leg: 1 - Southampton to Rio de Janeiro

Estimated/Actual Arrival Times
Yacht Name		Status		Arrival time	Leg Time	Placing
					GMT		DDD HH MM SS
01: British Steel II	Finished	25 OCT 13:43:26	029 02 38 26	1st
02: InterSpray		Finished	25 OCT 23:32:25	029 12 27 25	2nd
03: Heath Insured	Finished	26 OCT 20:59:20	030 09 54 20	3rd
04: Pride of Teeside	Finished	27 OCT 19:06:04	031 08 01 04	4th
05: Group 4		Finished	27 OCT 19:07:03	031 08 02 03 	5th
06: Hofbrau Larger	Finished	27 OCT 19:08:55	031 08 03 55	6th
07: Nuclear Electric	Finished	28 OCT 08:45:26	031 21 40 26	7th
08: Rhone Poulenc	Finished	28 OCT 08:57:03	031 21 52 03	8th
09: Coopers and Lybrand	Finished	28 OCT 09:05:55	031 22 00 55	9th
10: Commercial Union	Finished	03 NOV 04:58:55	037 17 53 45	10th

Key:
Leg Time:	- Total elapsed time from start of current leg to estimated
		- or actual completion of current leg
DDD HH MM SS	- Leg time expressed in: Days, Hours, Minutes and Seconds.
*		- Leg time modified by protest committee

Race Management System developed by BT in association  with the
Whitbread Round The World Race

Additional Information:
The above arrival times are subject to final confirmation by the Race
Committee.

Acknowlegement
BT Race Results System Data
Copyright British Telecommunications plc 1992
Any part of this document may be reproduced for information purposes in any
form, provided the reproduction is accompanied by the above notice.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Re: Solo Sailor Missing
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:25:53 GMT
Summary: Mike Plant, EPIRBs and the FCC
Keywords: epirb

In article <BxvA7r.810@apollo.hp.com> burati@apollo.hp.com (Michael Burati) writes:
>
>I read the Boston Globe article about this...  I don't believe he had an Argos,
>just an EPIRB.  The Canadian CG didn't forward the information on, because the
>signal was too weak to pinpoint the location, and the EPIRB they picked up was
>not registered.  The USCG found out about Plant being overdue and about the
>unregistered EPIRB, then somehow Plant's family found the EPIRB# from the
>company that sold it to him and matched it up with the unregistered one that
>the Canadian CG had heard.  Personally, I would hope someone with Mike's
>experience would have registered it, but I also wouldn't put it past the FCC
>to not have processed the application yet.  I used their order line to get
>a station license for my VHF last year (in July).  They finally sent me the
>order form in October, then took another several months after I sent it in to
>get the license back to me.

   This looks very, very bad then. I think I may go home early tonight
to quoff a Molson for Mike. I still hope he's OK.

   Maybe an Argos was to be fitted by the race committee? In a non-stop
race around the world I would think they would want some proof that the
boats actually went all the way around. An Argos transponder would give
them this information. Remember the Donald (David?) Crowhurst incident?

   It's also unfortunate that Mike Burati's experience seems to indicate
that since the FCC has begun to charge for its services, the service they
provide may have gone down the toilet. The last time I applied for a 
licence was in 1988, before the $35 "processing fee" was levied. They
sent me the form within a week, and I got my license shortly thereafter.

Wayne Simpson
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:02:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: hemlock.ZIELKE.92Nov17120227
	<1992Nov10.183134.2735@das.harvard.edu>
	<1992Nov10.221143.13020@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
	<1992Nov13.185255.4694@ttinews.tti.com>
	<1992Nov17.000333.5080@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory

Being the one who started all of this, and that the question was with regard
to cruising sailboats, what about the option of a double headstay?  I have
seen a few boats which simply have two headstays side by side.  I assume you
could do everything that the foil allows while at the same time having the
advantage of the hanks for ease of sail handling on the deck (not loosing
the sail over the side).


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil