HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD rec.autos.antique
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:37:20 GMT
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario

In article <1992Sep25.225138.1993@vpnet.chi.il.us> lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky) writes:
>
>Just a reminder, there is currently a discussion going on concerning
>the creation of rec.autos.antique to eventually replace alt.autos.antique
>as a newsgroup.  If you have any ideas, suggestions or comments
>concerning this new group, please post it as a reply to this post.
>
>The vote for the new newsgroup will commence on October 7th.  All
>follow-up discussion to this post will take place in news.groups.

I'm a little unsure just what the discussion accomplishes, beyond informing
people about the (potential) imminent creation of said group.

Does this discusion lead to a concrete definition of the charter?        

Well anyways, I was wondering if there was sufficient interest in european
cars (antiques), because I suggest that the cars be limited to north-
american made cars. (Don't flame me, it's only a suggestion!  :)

With the topic of old cars and emissions, would it be fair game to discuss
environmentaly friendly modifications (like  TB-fuel injection, electronic
ignition, cat converters)?
(ie let's say that someone needs a new distributor or carb for his model xyz,
but if he's going to do a lot of leg-work to find the original parts, and the
car is a daily driver, he might want to go with a more modern part that is
easier to find and improves his mpg.)

Also, would alt.autos.antique be killed if the rec group is formed?
Hey, it would be cool if this was the start of a hierarchy like
rec.autos.antique.gm, rec.autos.antique.chrysler, etc.
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:48:51 GMT
	<RSHAPIRO.92Sep25182226@kariba.bbn.com>
	<1992Sep27.151149.5528@rigel.econ.uga.edu> <90613@netnews.upenn.edu>
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu's message of 27 Sep 92 23:48:57 GMT

In article <90613@netnews.upenn.edu> rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
   Secondly, you would have had no problem finding the newsgroup if you
   had read the postings in news.announce.newusers, which ALL new Usenet
   users should read, and all users should be familiar with.



This reminds me of the "just say no" campaign: well-intentioned but
too far from reality to be relevant. Like it or not, a significant
percentage of the Usenet community doesn't follow your prescription;
as can be seen, these people are puzzled by the name "bluenote".
Better to deal with that reality than to keep telling people what they
should do. One realistic approach is to use names that anyone can
readily understand without having to look it up. "Jazz" and "blues"
are good examples; "bluenote" is not.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: CFD for *.apathy newsgroups
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:37:55 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <9209300742.AA14369@deepthought.cs.utexas.edu: FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Joel Furr) writes:
>I am issuing a CFD for a series of *.apathy newsgroups, as follows:
>
>comp.apathy -- are computers apathetic?  discussion of the so-called
>               A.I.  (Apathetic Intelligence), etc.
>misc.apathy -- apathy in general
>rec.apathy  -- tips from apathy fans, apathy how-to's, apathy competitions...
>sci.apathy -- the scientific study of apathy as a phenomenon
>soc.apathy  -- discussions of apathetics in society, apathetic organizations,
>               possibly a place for apathetics to make social contacts, etc.
>talk.apathy  -- discussions of apathy, apathetic talk, politics of apathy

Shouldn't this just be net.apathy and mod.apathy, for regular
and moderated discussions?  That's how I thought it worked, though
I must admit I can't always find time to keep up with usenet
organization these days.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                   kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                              +1 606 257 2975
Department of Mathematics      I just thought of a neat disproof of
     Fermat's last theorem, but .signatures can only be four lines.
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: MacApp group name
Date: 29 Sep 1992 21:57:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


>csm.macapp3:            Wrong place in hierarchy. No more top-level groups.
>csm.prog.macapp3:       Fits well. MacApp is for programming, after all.
>csm.oop.macapp3:        New hierarchy so TCL, Bedrock,... can be added
>csm.frameworks.macapp3  Ditto.
>csm.prog.oop.macapp3    Logical enough, but too long.

I'm sure someone has mentioned this before, so 
 apologies in advance...

Why call it macapp3 when there isn't an existing
 macapp group to compete with?  What happens when
 Mac App v4 come out?

-- 
Francis A. Uy			now a Bawlmorean, hon.
Program Director, WUMD		ISO part time job to pay the rent.
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.sport.swordfighting
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:12:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: ulogic.328
Organization: negligable

In case my previous article wasn't clear ...

I would support the "swordfighting" group, but only if it's 
charter didn't try to limit it to only what the "fencing"
would have contained....


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Philosopher and plowman			|
each must know his part			|	-Richard Hartman	
to build a new mentality		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
closer to the heart!			|
Xref: sparky news.groups:18684 rec.music.bluenote:7611
From: rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Arrogance in r.m.bluenote (was Re: r.m.bluenote --> ...)
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:22:49 GMT
	<RJC.92Oct3161827@daiches.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Human Communication Research Center
In-reply-to: rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk's message of 3 Oct 92 15:18:27 GMT


Just before someone gets upset, I'd better point out that sometimes
cluelesness in admins is really only virtual-cluelessness -- caused by
too much multi-tasking leaving insufficiant clue left for the net
after less important things like operating systems, compilers and
editors have been made to work right :-). The result is the same from
a behaviouristic viewpoint.

--
rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk			_O_
					 |<
From: flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.communication.speech
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:58:47 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <BtwntD.35@uunet.uu.net> furrjk@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:

>This is a Request for Discussion on a newsgroup to discuss aspects of
>speech communication, oratory, and public speaking.  As a member of
>Toastmasters International, I am very interested in discussing effective
>speech communication, but I see no newsgroups out there that would be
>an appropriate place for such discussions.  I have tried in various ones
>and received some email but most of it was 'take it out of this group,
>there's got to be a more appropriate place'.

>Hence I'd like to see if there's any interest in a public speaking
>newsgroup.  I would have liked to propose the name misc.public-speaking
>but that's too long, by one character.  misc.publicspeaking sounds odd
>to me.  I'd like comment on the appropriate name for this newsgroup,
>if any, and I'd also like to know if there is sufficient interest.

Strange coincidence, I am the Director of Forensics at Iowa State
University (that's speech and debate :)) and was just taking a few
moments of my time to figure out how to create just such a group.  In
Forensics competition we participate in public speaking events, oral
interpretation events and debate events.  A group to disscuss
techniques, theories, judging philosophies and general application of
communication skills I feel would be beneficial to members of
Toastmasters International, the Forensics Community and the General
Population of users.  

I had considered the name misc.forensics but that may be to obscure and
may be confused with those individuals that work with dead bodies :)

I would consider this newsgroup to be a valuable asset!!!!

*****************************************************************************
*       Spiritus Sanctus Anno Mundi:  Can you see me, are you near me?      *
* Can you hear me crying out for life?  Can you tell me, where's the glory? *
*     BLACK         **********************************      SABBATH         *
*******************  flar@iastate.edu (Brad Armitage)  **********************
From: gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Sean A Reith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 5 Oct 1992 15:47:05 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:

>Thus spake geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks): 

>>One problem would be the name.  Alt.medicine would be a natural,
>>but the alt groups have already got another purpose.  
>>Soc.medicine.alternative?  I'm sure others will have better suggestions.

>	I'm totally in favor of such a group. 

>	My original thought was that it should become
>sci.medicine.alternative until I read some of the biased responses to the
>original post from those who consider themselves scientifically oriented
>(funny, I always was taught that an open, inquiring, mind was the mark of a
>scientist - obviously that isn't always the case).

YES!  I agree!  When science becomes stagant, elitist and unwilling to
examine new ideas, it should no longer be called science (religion
springs to mind, but it does not do justice to those whose religion is
not).

>	I see no reason that either soc.medicine.alternative or
>alt.medicine.alternative would not be appropriate.

>	Given the demonstration of unbiased communications those with a
>scientific orientation have displayed thus far, however, it may need to be a
>moderated group to permit unbiased discussions to take place.

>-- 

>                       -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=-
>            The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised
>      over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to
>      prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is
>      not a sufficient warrant.                         John Stuart Mill
>                       -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=-
>          Rick Adams -=*=- adamsr@ais.org -=*=- adamsr@norwich.bitnet

Sorry, I had to quote the entire article.  Even the .sig spoke words of
great wisdom.

Enjoy, be free,
Sean.
-- 
Sean A Reith                         | gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au
C programmer and net.addict at large | sean@gu.uwa.edu.au
Obquote:                             | reith_s@kultarr.cs.uwa.edu.au
 "I have a cunning Plan" - Baldrick  | sean@his.own.really.fast.machine (RSN)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
From: mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo)
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Organization: The Poto Mitan in the Houmfor
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 12:27:12 GMT

> Karl Nordstrom <KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu> (in <92276.172150KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu>):
> Would you advocate including rec.music.funky into rec.music.bluenote?
> Rec.music.bluenote is described in news.groups as jazz, blues and other
> related musics.  It seems to me that other related musics are the musics
> r.m.f is charted to discuss.  So, if they arn't included here then why
> should blues be included here?  Lets be consistent.  Do you think the
> r.m.f people will relinquish their group and join us?

r.m.funky was not the result of a split of r.m.bluenote. It started
as a mailing list that grew to almost completely ridiculous proportion.
If I recall correctly, around the time I dropped off the list for lack
of time to keep us with it there were some 500 subscribers. The effort
to convert/gateway/whatever (I don't know know what arrangements they have)
grew pretty naturally out of that huge mass of people.

I was not involved in, indeed not aware of, the r.m.funky discussion
until the group got created. The group now exists, and I've been around
Usenet long enough to know that trying to uncreate a newsgroup for
any reason is a fool's errand.

So this call for consistency does not withstand examination. The
situations are completely different.
-- 
Marcel-Franck Simon             	mingus@usl.com, usl!mingus

	" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
	  Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jvbutera@grad04.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: newgroup
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:34:57 GMT

In article <92275.162424KPW104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KPW104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
*     I would like to propose a new group entitled:
*                      alt.boa.marching.bands
*     The purpose of this group will be for the ex-participants or
*     even current participants to discuss the new happenings on the
*     scene of the Marching Bands of America, a national compitition
*     for the creme-de-la-creme of high school marching bands.
*----
*Ken Wilcox
*kpw104@psuvm
*kpw104@psuvm.psu.edu

Could this not be included into the rec.arts.marching.XXXXXXXXX currently
being debated?

-- 
Jeff Butera            DISCLAIMER: I claim absolutely nothing.
Math Graduate Student
N.C. State University    "Still looking for a witty quote." 
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu                           -Brad Halls
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.board
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:46:06 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Sep25.170331.23512@clipper.ingr.com> tom@clipper.ingr.com (Tom Granvold) writes:
>    I think that rec.games.miniatures would be better that putting it
>under frp.

  Why not rec.games.miniatures.misc, to prepare for future splits:)

>Tom Granvold

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: smitra@sophia.smith.edu (Sramana Mitra)
Subject: TT newsgroup
Organization: Smith College
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:19:35 GMT

Yes, I support the proposition too. It will be great to have a TT newsgroup!

Sramana Mitra
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.fishing
From: cli@netcom.com (Concurrent Logic Inc)
Subject: Re: rec.fishing
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 23:33:40 GMT

In article <BvLGs0.4Cn@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>In article <BvI2nB.xu@animal.er.bell.ca> rpark@stam.bell.ca writes:
>>In article <BvDwE6.AKK@agora.rain.com>, robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>>|> 
>>|> 
>>|>   What happened to rec.fishing?
>>|> 
>>It got RECked.
>>-- 
>>Richard Park	
>
>
>  What does that mean?
>
I think he left off the :-)

It is actually rec.outdoors.fishing and is going strong.

Scott
From: ccs@aber.ac.uk (Christopher "Jd" Samuel)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: CFD for *.apathy newsgroups
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of Wales - Aberystwyth - Prifysgol Cymru

In article <9209300742.AA14369@deepthought.cs.utexas.edu>,
 FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Joel Furr) doodled:

>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I am issuing a CFD for a series of *.apathy newsgroups, as follows:
>
>comp.apathy -- are computers apathetic?  discussion of the so-called
>               A.I.  (Apathetic Intelligence), etc.
>misc.apathy -- apathy in general
>rec.apathy  -- tips from apathy fans, apathy how-to's, apathy competitions...
>sci.apathy -- the scientific study of apathy as a phenomenon
>soc.apathy  -- discussions of apathetics in society, apathetic organizations,
>               possibly a place for apathetics to make social contacts, etc.
>talk.apathy  -- discussions of apathy, apathetic talk, politics of apathy

How about alt.fan.apathy, for all those fans who absolutely MUST create
an alt.* group, even if there is rec.apathy..

also what about the *.apathy.advocacy groups ?

:-)

Chris

-- 
 Christopher Samuel, c/o Computer Unit, UCW Aberystwyth, Aberystwyth, WALES
  RFC: ccs@aber.ac.uk   UUCP: *!mcsun!uknet!aber!ccs   JNT: ccs@uk.ac.aber
          Deddf Iaith Newydd i Gymru | New Language Act for Wales
Xref: sparky news.groups:18749 comp.sys.mac.programmer:16535
From: werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: MacApp Straw Poll Result
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:20:18 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: UC Berkeley School of Education
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.157.31

Here are the results of the straw poll I posted about a week and a half ago
on the name for a new group for discussing MacApp 3:

Group Name                          |  F    Y    N  
comp.sys.mac.macapp3                |  3   27   19
comp.sys.mac.programmer.macapp3     | 20   27    7
comp.sys.mac.oop.macapp3            | 23   24    7   The Winner
comp.sys.mac.frameworks.macapp3     | 10   29   14
comp.sys.mac.programmer.oop.macapp3 |  0   27   23

'F' means it's the voter's favorite name for the group; 'Y' means not their
favorite but they would vote for it; 'N' means they would vote against it.

Comp.sys.mac.oop.macapp3 is the winner, so I'll use it as the group name in
the Call For Votes.  I'll also a include a vote for comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
on the ballot.  This will make some of the Usenet purists happy and will
provide a place for discussions on TCL and other such things.

Having said all this, I'm not very optimistic about the newgroup passing. 
It takes 100 more Yes votes than No votes, and I only got 60 votes _total_
on the straw poll.  So if you want to see this group created, please send
in your vote when the time comes (but NOT right now :-).

That's the last bit of campaigning you'll hear from me on the subject.  I'm
going to shut up, send out the CFV this Friday, Oct 9th, and sit back and
count the votes.

--
John Werner                         werner@soe.berkeley.edu
UC Berkeley School of Education     510-642-9651
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jvbutera@grad00.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 22:38:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.140034.16044@husc3.harvard.edu> fath1@husc11.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes:

*After reading further discussion putting arts in the name, I have somewhat
*changed my mind from this earlier opinion.  Phil and other have argued that
*it is important to be consistant with the ReadNews hierachy and I agree with
*that.  They argue that putting marching directly off rec is not appopriate
*because marching is not a broad enough term to rank as rec.marching.*.
*I agree with that too.
*
*rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
*rec.arts.marching.bands  (or if people prefer - rec.arts.marching.misc)

Good choices.  rec.drumcorp is clearly too close to the root rec.

*Michael Fath		fath1@husc.harvard.edu



-- 
Jeff Butera            DISCLAIMER: I claim absolutely nothing.
Math Graduate Student
N.C. State University    "Still looking for a witty quote." 
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu                           -Brad Halls
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nina@fynu4.fynu.ucl.ac.be (Alain Ninane - FYNU)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.vmebus
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: University of Louvain (LLN) - Nuclear Physics Dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:48:32 GMT

The advantage of such a newsgroup is that there will be definetely a
newsgroup for VME. At this time, most users send VMEbus related messages
to comp.realtime, comp.sys.m68k (and for those who use VxWorks,
comp.os.vxworks). None of these newsgroups is really appropriated.

>3- One person recommends that the charter of the newgroup be expanded to
>    include other buses related to VMEbus, such as Futurebus+.
>    Additional discussion on this point is encouraged.  

I suggest to open this newsgroup to all open busses. In particular to all
busses which are discussed under the auspices of the VITA and ESONE
commitees: VME, VXI, CAMAC, Futurebus+, SCI, ...

Alain

------------------
Dr. Alain H. Ninane     | Tel : +32-10-47.32.73 - Fax: +32-10-45.21.83
University of Louvain   | Internet: Ninane@fynu.ucl.ac.be
Nuclear Physics Dept.   | Ch. du Cyclotron, 2
B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve | BELGIUM               
-- 
Dr. Alain H. Ninane     | Tel : +32-10-47.32.73 - Fax: +32-10-45.21.83
University of Louvain   | Internet: Ninane@fynu.ucl.ac.be
Nuclear Physics Dept.   | Ch. du Cyclotron, 2
B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve | BELGIUM               
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: aphelps@vicstoy.UUCP (Austin Phelps)
Subject: Re: rec or alt.joke  - does one exist?
Organization: vicstoy: Public Access Unix, Orlando, FL
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:42:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.140249.28567@bmerh85.bnr.ca> rivan@bnr.ca writes:
>
> I was looking around on my server for a newsgroup
>on jokes and couldn't find one.  If there is one
>let me know.  If there isn't wouldn't it be great
>to have one.  This newsgroup would allow us to compile
>al sortsof jokes from around the world.  And maybe 
>when we are done the world would disapear.  But
>seriously folks ......
>

It called rec.humor.{d, funny, oricle, oricle.d}


-- 
  Austin Phelps - aphelps@vicstoy.oau.org - austin.phelps@oau.org
           UUCP - {peora,ge-dab,tous,tarpit}!bilver!vicstoy!aphelps
                - vicstoy Public Access Unix, Orlando FL
                - (407)299-3661  1200/2400/9600 V.32  24 hours  8N1
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:56:15 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <1687211918.SFINE00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> SFINE00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Fineman, Stephen Elliot) writes:
>  I have to agree here.  It seems to me that rec.marching.etc is preferable to
>rec.arts.marching.etc for reasons of length,

Can you tell us what these reasons of length are? You are the third poster
to claim that adding ".arts" is a liability, but nobody has explained why.

>and because the inclusion of arts seems unnecessary (consider rec.music).

Here's the reason why it's preferred: the entries under "rec" should be for
major sub-groups -- rec.music, rec.sports, etc. I don't believe that Drum
Corps, marching bands, and color guards will ever amount to a major sub-group
in the USENET News discussion groups.

--phil
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:16:43 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <1992Oct5.190836.18457@eskimo.celestial.com> delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) writes:

> I beleive that 'sci.med.alternative' is the best place for this group.

Speaking personally, I would vote an unqualified "no" on any
alternative therapy group under sci.  I see benefits in having such a
group on the net, but it simply stands that alternative medicine
therapies have not proved themselves as sciences, in *any* sense of
the word.  Soc or misc would be perfectly happy homes for the group.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
Xref: sparky news.groups:18685 rec.music.bluenote:7612