HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crwg2707@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (R. Wagner)
Subject: Re: Bike Computers and Suspension Forks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:52:30 GMT

babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau) writes:

>What do you folks out there with Suspension forks on your Mountain Bike 
>do about mounting the pickup for your bike computer.
>I don't own a suspension fork (yet) so I haven't run into this problem.
>I'm just curious.

>[stuff deleted]

>-- 
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>|Michael Babineau           | BITNET: babineau@BNR.CA                    |
>|Bell Northern Research Ltd.| UUCP  : ..!uunet!bnrgate!bmerh812!babineau |
>|Ottawa, ON. CANADA         |         ..!psuvax!BNR.CA.bitnet!babineau   |
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have Manitou's and an avocet 30 computer.  The Avocet has a ring that "snaps"
on the front hub or attaches to the spokes with zipties and goes around the
axle if you have something BIG like Bubba Hubz.  The sensor mounts on the 
bottom of the fork where the QR clamps on.  This was a problem with the
Manitou's, since the fork leg is 1 1/4 diameter down there.  So, I took the
cowards way out and used RTV silicone to "glue" the sensor to the right spot
on the forks.  It works well, but has to be re-RTVed every 6 months or so.

With "regular" computers, where the magnet is attached somewhere between the
hub and rim and the sensor is ziptied to the fork, you just mount it the same
way.  The "bottom" part of the suspension fork (the part that moves) is 
usually the outside so it moves with the wheel and the magnet and sensor
move together. 

I hope this doesn't sound condascending because I'm using little words instead
of the official terms.  To be honest I can't remember which part is the
stanchion (sp?) and which is the slider.  Trust me, it's a lot easier to take
them (Manitou) apart and reassemble than to remember the part names.


Ride on, 
Raydude.

"Ray, a man unburdened by the rigors of coherent thought." 
          -a Brannonism quoted by George Heinz
From: latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (Latenser)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Trek Offers Warranty Replacement -> I need 1990 850 info.
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:28:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln


My Trek ATB frame failed and the local dealer returned 
the frame for warranty over 3 weeks ago.

Now Trek is offering to replace my early 80's Reynolds 
frame with a 1990 Trek 850 24" frame or a 1992 model 
7000 or 8000 22" bonded aluminum frame.  I really need the 
24" frame size  but I also do not want to accept a junk 
frame as replacement for the Reynolds frame (which I 
treasured and still feel was the most comfortable ATB 
frame I have ridden).


The questions concerning the 1990 Trek 850: 
	Is it made in the USA?
	Is it a lugged frame or is it TIG welded?
	What tubeset does it use?
	What is the fork like?

	What are the frame specifications for the 24" frame?
		i.e. top tube length and seat post length 
		(center to center)

The local dealer seems unable to answer these questions and Trek does
not want to deal with me directly.

Any response or pointers would be greatly appreciated.


Dan Latenser
latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: bgiven@alfred.carleton.ca (Brian Given)
Subject: Re: drum brakes
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:00:06 GMT

Years ago I ran into a prototype Norton anti-skid front brake - you
couldn't lock it up on ball-bearings.  Now we MTB folks like to use
rear brake lockup for cornering so we aren't fond of linked brake
systems. I wonder though....what if you had an anti-lock front and a
lockable rear brake on one lever for stopping  and had another lever
to gromp the rear only for the fancy stuff?

Re. drum brakes - the British magazine New Cyclist (a good bit of
work!) regularly mentions them.  In my never-ending quest for the
ultimate snow-and-ice bike for winter I am contemplating the use of a
five-speed intermally geared hub, fully-enclosed rear chain
and..yes..hub brakes.

The only problem so far is that, what with snow, salt, ice and RUST,
the frame should really be made of titanium and using a ti frame with
such utilitarian (and heavy) equipment......I mean don't the Wheelmen
have a bylaw or something?<g>

Brian
From: camlau@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (**bj**)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: mtb: suntour microdrive cassette compatibility
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Is anyone out there knowledgable about suntour cassettes?  Specifically
does anyone know if the microdrive freehub can accept a standard
suntour cassette? What about the other way around? Can a standard 
suntour freehub accept microdrive cassette?

Can you imagine:  a 20 tooth microdrive granny chainring coupled to
a 28 tooth standard cog to give a 18.5" gear!  Talk about climbing
ability!

**bj**
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Freewheel Cluster Spacing
Date: 8 Sep 1992 15:07:21 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

(sorry if you've seen this posting before, I'm having difficulty
 posting to the rec.bicycles subgroups)

In <1992Sep3.234815.7029@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>
   iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba) writes:

> Are ultra-6 cogs thinner, or do ultra-6 clusters use thinner spacers,
> or both?

some cogs (>13t) are interchangeable between standard-5 and ultra-6
ultra-6 spacers are thinner than standard-5
ultra-6 spacers are compatible with ultra-7 spacers

> Does each manufacturer have their own cluster body widths?

Regina ultra-6 is wider than Suntour ultra-6

Here is some information from the Cyclo-Pedia catalog:

   Maximum freewheel thickness
   (from front of front cog to rear of rear most cog)

   RE-CX5   (standard-5)      24.7mm
   RE-CX6   (standard-6)      30.5mm
   RE-CX6S  (ultra-6)         26.6mm
   RE-CX7   (ultra-7)         31.5mm

> Suppose I want to limit myself to ultra-6 clusters but am not sure
> of which make and model I want to use; is there a _maximum_ width
> body that I should plan around if I want to maintain flexibility?
>
> Bonus question (the real question): what is that maximum width if
> it exists and is relevant?

I have Suntour standard-5 and ultra-6 freewheels, but they're mounted
on wheels and I can't get a good measurement my calipers.  I have
noticed that when I exchange an ultra-5 with an ultra-6 on a
Campagnolo Record HF 120mm hub, I need to add spacers on the freewheel
side to prevent the chain from rubbing the inside of the dropout.
I don't have this problem with Phil Wood's hubs.

The spacing of the Regina freewheel places the front of the small
cog closer to the frame than the Suntour hub.  Because of the dropout
and chainstay design I have one frame that will work with Regina
or Suntour ultra-6, two frames that will only work with Suntour ultra-6,
and one frame that won't accept either (n.b. won't accept without
adding a spacer to the axle.)

Alex
internet: amiller@almaden.ibm.com
From: boz@coos.dartmouth.edu (John Boswell)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: teeth on gears
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:30:14 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hi,
        I have a question about the teeth on normal freewheels and rear-
wheels.  Last night after I washed the mud off my ~2 mo. old Trek 700 I
lubricated the chain/ etc. for the first time (I know I should be doing
that more often- but better late than never :).  I noticed that some
of the teeth look like they have been worn down; they aren't as pointed
as others on the gear.  I never examined the gears closely before this.
I use the bike to commute to work 3 times a week (~25 miles round trip)
during the week, and on weekends I take it on the trails of our local
park system.  I haven't noticed any problem while riding.  I'm concerned,
since I think 2 months is a short time for gears to wear down :}.  The
shifting on the bike is fine, and I try *not* to shift during a powerstroke.
Any thoughts?  Also, in general, how often should I lubricate things,
given the above amount of riding?  I'm new to cycling, and not very
knowledgeable about bicycle maintenance (I'm headed to the bookstore this
evening for a book on this).
        Thanks for any help/suggestions!


--
****************************************************************************
Dr. John Boswell	John.S.Boswell@dartmouth.edu (preferred address)	
Dept. of Medicine/GI MCN C2104	BOSWELJS@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (alternate)	
Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN  37232	615-343-4747
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Removing frozen freewheel
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:11:53 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania

Another suggestion:

Put the freewheel remover on and secure it with the quick release skewer.
(I'm not sure if you can secure it with the axle bolt if you don't have
quick release.)  

Now find a vise and put the freewheel remover in it and twist!  Hopefully
you can apply enough torque to free the threads.  Do not continue twisting
once the threads are freed -- if you do the QR will break or strip.  You
should be able to remove the QR skewer and get the freewheel off the rest
of the way now.

I had to do this with my Suntour freewheel on my often used mountain bike.
It was just really jammed on.  I had already begun stripping the raised
edge of both the freewheel and removal tool.  The QR skewer helps keep the
tool in place while you apply torque.




Jack Vinson			vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu     
When the justice system is for "just us" we are in trouble!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce)
Subject: Re: Removing a frozen stem
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:43:00 GMT

In article <ADRIAN.92Sep9110131@percy.robots.ox.ac.uk>, adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox) writes...

Problem description deleted.

>1> Use a blowtorch to heat up and expand the tubes, freeing the rust.
>2> Hit it harder with a larger hammer.

I can't resist:  Don't force it, get a larger hammer!

Actually, I don't care for either of those option.  How about bracing the
forks, putting a piece of pipe over the stem, and twisting.  If you 
couple this with someone else tapping the top of the stem with a hammer
(to help vibrate the corrosion loose) it may do the job.

The torch will detemper your frame somewhat and the impulsive hammer
blows would (i expect) be more likely to deform something.


--Soren            laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Removing a frozen stem
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:15:01 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <ADRIAN.92Sep9110131@percy.robots.ox.ac.uk>, adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox) writes:
> I can't afford a new commuting bike, so I'm resurrecting a bike that's
> been left standing in a shed for three years.  Everything is going
> smoothly, except that I can't get the stem out.  The expander bolt is
> missing and I can see the wedge nut rattling around loose inside.  I'm
> pretty certain that the stem and forks are rusted together, and the
> penetrating oil I've put inside has had no effect.  So far I've
> thought of two possible approaches, and I'd like some comments or new
> ideas for freeing it.  It's a fairly basic steel frame, but I'm still
> nervous about both of these options.
> 
> 1> Use a blowtorch to heat up and expand the tubes, freeing the rust.
> 2> Hit it harder with a larger hammer.
> 
> - Adrian

	Some of the people giving advice on freeing a stem don't seem to 
realise just how hard it can be to free these things.  I had virtually the
same problem last year,  and even my local bike mechanic gave up.
	So we decided to cut the stem out,  and as soon as he got the 
blow torch onto the stem it loosened up no problem!  Still,  it's always a
good excuse to get a new fork....
	Jonathan.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Do frames wear out?
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:41:23 GMT

>Hey neat.  One line.  Anyway.
>Nobody has been able to measure any change in the modulus of elastiscity of
>steel upto failure.  This was rehashed last week and every odd week before that

What about "work hardening"?  Does it not apply to bicycling steels?

-andy


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Re: : Re: : Do frames wear out?
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:27:00 GMT

For all those non-engineers who would like to learn a little bit
about materials strength, there is a *wonderful* book that's been in
print since 1968 called "The New Science of Strong Materials",
subtitled "or Why You Don't Fall Through the Floor", by J.E. Gordon,
Princeton University Press.
 
It's wonderfully entertaining, and tells all about elasticity, strength,
strain, cracking, failure, hardening, composites and just about anything
else you'd care to know. I learned a ton from it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Joseph Edelman           Wayne State University
 medelma@cms.cc.wayne.edu         Computing & Information Technology
 mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu        Detroit, Michigan
 medelma@waynest1.bitnet          (313) 577-0742
 KE8YY
From: legolas@daimi.aau.dk (Anders Jacob Truelsen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Do frames wear out?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:05:12 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark

harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:

>jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer) writes:
>: 
>: Do frames wear out?  

>In general, yes.

>: If so, how do you tell if your frame is worn out?

>When it breaks.  There is no other definition of "wearing out", at least
>for frames constructed of metals.  The metals will not change stiffness
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>through use, but can eventually suffer fatigue failure (i.e. it breaks).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
CrMo (and Hi-Ten) _do_ change stiffness through use. The fatigue will make the frame more flexible. You can test the 'softness' of your frame by placing your foot on the pedal and press it inwards (sidewards). 
Carbon is suposed NOT to change stiffness. 

... [deleted stuff] ...

anders truelsen /legolas@daimi.aau.dk


                *******************************
	        *  "Hit the bitch !"   	      *
                *    Texas Chainsaw Massacre  *
                *******************************
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:30:44 EDT
From: <FZK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Opinions needed on Cannondale SR400

I'd like opinions from anyone who has owned the SR400 or who has
has raced on Cannondale bikes.  Thanks.

                                    Joe
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: Re: MTB Bar Ends vs Scott Bars
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 07:22:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

So far, my AT-4 PRO has suited me quite well.  It doesn't weigh much more
than the original bar on my Mongoose IBOC team (1990) and the bend angle
suits me fine.  The full tuck 'aero' position is a bit twitchy, but that's
possibly because I should have a little more stem extension.

The lightweight bit is pretty well compromised by my two rolls of padded
cushion-grip tape.

I added the Scott forearm pads, without which the full tuck was far too
uncomfortable.

	now if I could just find some of those brake lever extenders...
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: mtb: suntour microdrive cassette compatibility
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:37:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep8.202349.25987@Happy-Man.com> Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com writes:
>
>You could just use a microdrive crank for the tiny rings,
>and use a standard hub for the standard cog ranges.  This
>would be less expensive, since you won't be paying the
>newness premium on microdrive equipment.  You also would
>not need to use a Suntour freehub/cassette setup if you
>prefer freewheels or other brands of hubs.

I see that Specialized is marketing a beautiful micro-drive compatible
crank set. it's pretty pricey too though.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: drum brakes
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.160637.23085@colorado.edu>
doug@shako.Colorado.EDU (Doug McKnight) writes:
 
>If "integral function" means that the two brakes are operated with one
>control then I don't want it!
>
>It is really important to have independent control of the brakes.
>
>The drum brake on my tandem was only useful when the bike had steel rims
>and poor braking in the wet. I could be wrong but i don't think drum brakes
>are used very much on tandems now. Mine is 60 years old.
>Douglas
 
Just back from the Midwest Tandem rally in Des Moines, Iowa.  Almost 400
tandems.  By far the most common single brand is now Santana.  I believe
that Arai (sp?) drums are standard on them (they used to be)...anyway
about 50% of the tandems did have drums.  I am not at all happy with the
Shimano disc as a third brake...500 pounds of flesh coasting downhill
on a triplet at 50+ mph, when it suddenly starts to rain.  (No, nobody
pulled out from a side street, but it did take FOREVER with all the brakes
on full force to slow down to a safer speed for the rainy conditions.)
 
While others disagree, I have no problem with putting both rim brakes on
one lever, and my thrid brake on the other.  The pads wear roughly the
same rate and so they don't need the frequent adjustment that others
warned me of.  And the triplet is so long, that all the usual rules of
braking harder on the front than the bake must be seriously modified...
usually the bike is so under-braked that getting it into a skid (at least
when going straight--and that is the only thing I am willing to do at
any speed on a triplet) requires a really bad road surface (lots of sand,
oil, etc.)
 
Must the time, we bike in flatland, and 30 mph means pedalling hard.
So, getting better brakes only becomes an issue when we go out of
town...but then it is too late to do anything.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: c9223585@cc.newcastle.edu.au (THE PERSISTANT DEVIL)
Subject: Re: Taya "No Chain Tool" Crap Quality Chain
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:12:12 GMT

In article <5Am-kf@engin.umich.edu>, trammell@engin.umich.edu (James Trammell) writes:
> 
> I've seen ads recently about a new chain on the market, made by a company
> called Taya.  It seems they have 2 models, the Taya Relief and the Taya
> Extreme.  Both are advertised as having a special master links that can be
> snapped on or off with just the hands, i.e. no chain tool is needed.  They
> also talk about the virtues of their chain plates and how the pins are
> flush with the plate surfaces.
> I have a mtn. bike with a Hyperglide chain, and it can get pretty dirty,
> and I like to keep it clean, so I remove it frequently.  It's a pain to have
> to use that stupid replacement pin though.  Has anyone tried this new chain?
> Is the Taya Relief or the Taya Extreme good for use on bikes that use 
> Hyperglide chains?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> -James

I have had similar problems in the past with HG chains (with dirt,cleaning
snapping replacement pins etc.)
So I tried the Taya chain. It was great for a while, just snapping the chain on
and off when it needed a clean, but then problems occured:
 - excelerated wear on all drive train parts, probably due to the material
   used (it has three times the tensile strength)
 - One night while spriting on my MTB I heard a distinct cracking noise on every
   revolution of the chain, after stopping and expecting the chain under the
   illumination of my bike light I realised to my horror that one side of the
   special SIGMA link had snapped and I was riding on a chain held together by
   half a link! after walking home I quickly installed my old HG chain and
   boght a set of pins

I suppose it comes down to conveinance vs reliablity...

-Tim

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: blp@cypress.com (Bruce Prickett/PROM)
Subject: Re: drum brakes
Summary: I use ours all the time!
Keywords: drum brake, tandem
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor, San Jose, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:55:31 GMT

in <1992Sep10.160637.23085@colorado.edu> doug@shako.Colorado.EDU
 (Doug McKnight) says: (referring to drum brakes)

>If "integral function" means that the two brakes are operated with one
>control then I don't want it!

>It is really important to have independent control of the brakes.

Most Definitely!!!!

>The drum brake on my tandem was only useful when the bike had steel rims
>and poor braking in the wet. I could be wrong but i don't think drum brakes
>are used very much on tandems now. Mine is 60 years old. 
>Douglas


I wouldn't buy a tandem without drum brakes, at least not for steep hills.
We added a rear drum to ours after we got up to 35 mph on a twisty
down-hill; at the bottom, our rims were too hot to touch comfortably.
We had an Arya drum put on the back wheel with a separate control lever
on the captain's handlebars. By setting a constant drag, I can control
our speed without using the hand brakes continuously.

After installing the drum brake, we went to North-Star at Tahoe, and
rode the Ski lifts up the hill. With the drag set on the back wheel,
we could bomb down the fire roads without having to hold the hand
brakes in a death grip all the time. We attracted a lot of attention
(all of it positive) and got a lot of people excited about tandems.
Single Track was still not very feasible though ;-)

One alternative that can work is to use low tire pressure; this increases
rolling resistance and gives you some margin for the air in the tire 
to expand as it heats up. I've talked to tandem riders who use this approach 
because the drum brake uses the same attachment point as the Burley 
trailer. I still prefer the drum brake. 

If you are buying a tandem, check to see if it is compatible with drum
brakes. You need extra braze-ons on the left chain stay and a rear hub
with threads on both sides (free-wheel on the right, drum on the left)
These are stock on Santana tandems, but we had to spend money to have
them added to our Yokota Twin Peaks. Check it out!

Bruce Prickett
blp@cypress.com