HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dan.taylor@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU (DANIEL ANDREW TAYLOR)
Subject: La guerra italiana civile
Keywords: CEE
Organization: University of Utah
Date: Fri, 1 May 1992 18:38:54 GMT

Di solito quando si parlava di una "guerra fredda," si intendeva le
relazioni fra l'Est e l'Ovest, specificamente fra gli Stati Uniti e l'Union=
e
Sovietica.  In questi giorni e' popolare credere che la guerra fredda sia=
=20
finita, a che l'Ovest abbia vinto.  Pero, io credo che ci sia ancora una gu=
erra=20
fredda, e che questa guerra sia forse piu' importante per l'Italia.
Avendo trascorso un paio d'anni nel Italia del sud, ho visto che
l'Italia e' divisa - che in realta' ci sono due Italie - quella del nord=20
e quella del sud.  Quelli dal Nord tengono in disdegno quelli dal Sud, e
quelli dal Sud disprezzano il Nord.  Mi pare che non si sentano compatrioti
con obiettivi simili, ma sembrano invece rivali che non vogliono vedere
l'altro vincere.
Ma questa e' una divisione che non fa male a nessuno tranne che a
quegl'italiani che la sostengono.  La divisione e' una debolezza a=20
confronto degli altri paesi europei che fanno parte della CEE.  E fino a qu=
ando=20
l'Italia non riesce ad unirsi, politicamente eancia e la Germania, dipenden=
te
da un'alleanza con la Spagna, il Portogallo e la Grecia per realizzare i su=
oi
scopi nell'Europa.=20
Siccome e' vero che l'Italia non e' stata un paese unito fino al=20
secolo scorso, forse la cultura italiana si e' abituata ad essere due socie=
ta'=20
diverse - e divise.  Ma io penso che sarrebbe proprio ora per l'Italia di=
=20
dichiarare la fine della guerra fredda italiana, che ormai e' una guerra fr=
edda civile.  In questo modo, ne' il Nord ne' il Sud saranno gli sconfitti =
- anzi, e' tutta l'Italia che trionfa!
Lo Sarto=20
 =20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Dan Taylor, Studente di Matematica, U of U
dan.taylor@m.cc.utah.edu

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=20

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n
e.edu!think.com!ames!pasteur!athos.Berkeley.EDU!luciano
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Keywords: CEE
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Berke

ley.EDU> <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 May 1992 00:57:00 GMT

In article <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>, lpicci@weber.ucsd.edu (Lucio Pic=
ci) writes:
>In article <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
>luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno) writes:
>>Ovviamente gli Americani
>>fanno lo stesso a proposito dei problemi negli USA (che sono tanti, come
>stiamo
>>vedendo...).
>
>Io non sto vedendo un bel niente, e' tutto coperto di fumo!
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=3D Lucio Picci                =3D=3D  Lo sai che i papaveri          =
=3D=3D
>=3D=3D Oppiomane                  =3D=3D        son' alti-alti-alti...   =
=3D=3D
    ^^^^^^^^^
>=3D=3D Dept. of Economics,        =3D=3D                                 =
=3D=3D =20
>=3D=3D U.C.S.D., San Diego.       =3D=3D           Nilla Pizzi           =
=3D=3D
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Te lo aveva detto la mamma di non passare il tuo tempo nelle fumerie di Can=
ton
!
Ciao !
Luciano
P.s. vado a casa. Coprifuoco alle 7:00.

--=20
Luciano Lavagno    Dept of EECS, Univ of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, US=
A
+1-510-642-5012    luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU
=20


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e.edu!rpi!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!cdc386.cdc.polimi.it!gin490
From: gin490@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it ()
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Keywords: CEE
Organization: C.d.C Politecnico di Milano
Berkeley.EDU> <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 11:02:06 GMT

lpicci@weber.ucsd.edu (Lucio Picci) writes:


>Io non sto vedendo un bel niente, e' tutto coperto di fumo!


>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=3D Lucio Picci                =3D=3D  Lo sai che i papaveri          =
=3D=3D
>=3D=3D Oppiomane                  =3D=3D        son' alti-alti-alti...   =
=3D=3D
>=3D=3D Dept. of Economics,        =3D=3D                                 =
=3D=3D =20
>=3D=3D U.C.S.D., San Diego.       =3D=3D           Nilla Pizzi           =
=3D=3D
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Torna  al  Kinotto!
Non sfumare via cosi`

Saluti annebbiati
  Giovanni
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:27:06 CST
From:         Andrew D Cohen-1 <adcohen@STAFF.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: your mail

>
>Re. classroom vs. street language learning, Bob DeKeyser is, of
>course, right: "...to suggest that fundamentally different learning
>processes take place because of the mere difference in environment
>is...completely misguided."  There's no longer much doubt that
>context, or more accurately, the learner's interpretation of the
>context, influences profoundly what one learns.  This is the essence
>of the discourse domains hypothesis that Selinker and I have been
>developing over the last few years.  We know so little yet about how
>second langauges are learned that to suggest unequivocally that one
>environment is "better" than others is indeed misguided.
>
>Andrew Cohen's mention of the Buzz Palmer study reminds me of one by
>Maria Pavesi (SSLA 8:38-55) where she compared English relative
>clause use by Italian high school learners and Italian waiters who
>learned their English at work in Edinburgh.  The range of structures
>used was comparable in the two groups; the only advantage the
>classroom learners had was that they used the structures at the
>bottom of the NP accessibility hierarchy (i.e., the "rarer" ones)
>more frequently, I think.

AND THAT'S A BIT DEPRESSING.  IT SAYS THAT CLASSROOMARNERS ARE LEARNING
THE MARGINAL (?) FORMS THAT ARE DISHED OUT IN CLASS BUT THAT IN SOME CASES
MAY HAVE LITTLE OR NO PRACTICAL VALUE IN ANY CONTEXT, ALAS.    ANDREW COHEN
>
>We need many many more studies of this nature.  Read the relevant
>pages in Larsen-Freeman and Long's book on SLA research, and then go
>do some...
>
>Dan Douglas
>Iowa State University
>


--
DR. ANDREW D. COHEN
ESL, 126 Klaeber Ct, U of Minnesota, 320 16th Ave SE, Mpls, MN 55455
Tel: 612-624-3806/Fax: 612-625-2312/NEW e-mail: adcohen@staff.tc.umn.edu
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:09:59 -0700
From:         LCINKO@ARIZVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: your mail

Jeri, I think we both agree on the fact that adults are cognitive learners
whether learning strategies are taught or already embedded in the learner's
mind.  --Lydie!...
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Return-Path: <mvnaerss@sas.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:37:21 EST
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:37:21 EST
From:         Margaret VanNaerssen <mvnaerss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      deictic reference

Oops, I misspelled "deictic."
Margaret vN
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:18:19 -0800
From:         dmchun%hcfmail@HUB.UCSB.EDU
Subject:      Re: International French networks

You might try contacting Orlando Kelm at the University of Texas at Austin
who has used email, etc. with his Portuguese classes.  He's written this up
in an article which is to appear in an anthology on Computers and Writing.
His email address is:  orlando.kelm@utxvm.bitnet  or
orlando.kelm@utxvm.utexas.edu


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Dorothy Chun
Dept. of Germanic, Oriental & Slavic Languages
University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4130

(805) 893-2131, FAX (805) 893-2374
Email:  dmchun@humanitas.ucsb.edu

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:33:56 PST
From:         Day Jones <djones@SCF.USC.EDU>
Subject:      subscription

I would like to subscribe to SLA list-server. Please inform.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:58:34 -0500
From:         Barbara Freed <bf0u+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Teresa Pica

Teri Pica
U of Pennsylvania
Graduate School of Education
Language in Education A-14  Education
Philadelphia, PA 19104
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Organization: Faculty of Arts, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:21:04 +0000
Comments:     This mail was sent from RUULET using PMDF v4.1.6
From:         Mike.S.Smith@LET.RUU.NL
Subject:      Re: fl

It might interest some of you that there is a debate going on at the moment in
the Netherlands, initiated by the current Minister of Education, into the
whole matter of whether FL departments at universities have any value given
the students might be better employed spending time in the appropriate
foreign country picking up the language "naturally".
The cat is truly amongst the pigeons...
Mike Sharwood Smith
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:39:37 -0700
From:         LCINKO@ARIZVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: fl

"Picking up the language naturally", OK....  But before sending students
abroad, they need to go through some formal instruction.  The advantage of
instruction is that it breaks down and organizes the material.  Instruction
makes the input comprehensible.  Sending students abroad is a great idea for
them to go on learning through practice.  However, without formal basis, there
is little chance they will pick up anything.  Personally, I tried to learn
Chinese naturally when I was in Asia (I staid there one year)...  But for some
reason I always ended up hanging around French and English speaking folks.
The outcome of one year in Asia is that I know three sentences in Chinese!!!
Krashen and Terrell had also run an experiment:  they had a nonspanish speaking
person in a house where Spanish only was spoken.  I forgot how long the
experiment lasted, but the outcome was that very little learning was going on.
Krashen himself ended up believing that formal instruction has the advantage of
providing a comprehensible input.  Some people, with a precise personality
profile are pretty good at picking up languages naturally.  However, those
people are rare.  I agree that a combination of instruction and traveling
provides the best outcome regarding language acquisition.  We know that
instruction alone is somehow limited (due to a lack of sociolinguitic reality
in classrooms) and that immersion is not enough unless some previous
instruction has been going on (Krashen).  Of course, instruction and immersion
could both be taking place in the target language country at the same time...
that's an idea...

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
     Lydie Meunier-Cinko
   lcinko@ccit.arizona.edu
    lcinko@arizvms.bitnet
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:13:58 +1000
From:         CALIX <EDULH@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: fl

Re: Robb Scott's message. Ummm. There certainly are/were a lot of
creole's and pidgins around as a result of this natural language contact
situation in learning other languages. True it may be better to learn
in an ESL rather than an EFL context. Isn't that the real question?
Related is whether or not, and the conversation so far has implied NOT,
learning another language is better done in a classroom or with classroom
assistance or not.

It seems fine for students in the Netherlands to learn FL languages of/in
countries close to them. As EEC people etc. Not much expense. The US
students may :) have enough money to do their FL learning abroad. But
what about the rest of the world? In short WHO is going to pay for all
this FL learning abroad especially if the students are debarred from
work as they would be in Europe. And who is going to pay the hefty
overseas students fees???? The expense in maintaining University
language departments seems minimal compared to the cost of learning
abroad. Equity of access is simply going out of the window if.....

Lloyd Holliday
edulh@lure.latrobe.edu.au
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:56:29 -0500
From:         cameronb@CC.SNOW.EDU
Subject:      Re: fl

     If I were required to choose between language classes and on-site
language learning, I'd refuse.
     As an adult with *lots* less time to devote to language learning than
a newborn babe, I find anything smacking of 'naturalism' to be a grossly
inefficient way to begin getting a second (or nth) language.  I want
somebody to tell me what to say and how to say it.  I also want my initial
learning to take place in the protective cocoon of a classroom, where I can
make my first mistakes without social cost and develop a repertoire of ways
to deal with subsequent mistakes.  If language is a tool for communication,
I want some instruction in how to use that tool before I'm thrown out on
the shop floor to make propduct.
     After I've had a chance to get used to the language and have learned
some ways to use it (even if they *don't* always work in all situations in
all contexts in the 'real' world), then I'd be happy to go to the country
where the language is spoken and 'acquire' more of the language
'naturalistically.'  With the beginnings of proficiency before I arrive, I
believe that my rate of acquisition would be much faster, and my experience
much more satisfying than if I'd arrived with no prior knowledge of the
language.

Cameron J. Beatty                       fax:  (801) 283-6879
Snow College                             office:(801) 283-4021 x650
Ephraim, UT  84627  U.S.A.              email:  cameronb@cc.snow.edu
From: fbrooks@GARNET.ACNS.FSU.EDU (Frank B. Brooks)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Subject: Re: socialization/empowerment
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:32:59 GMT
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Action: I
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              Jan 26, 93 07:18:41 pm

>
> Hi.
>   I'm a graduate student at McGill U. and I'm writing my monograph
> on socialization through the curriculum of adult ESL job search
> classes.  Currently I'm having a lot of difficulties finding
> literature on this topic.  Do you have any suggestions regarding
> literature on the following topics:
> 1.  socialization in second languages (specifically ESL)
> 2.  the 'hidden curriculum' in second languages
> 3.  empowerment and adult ESL learners
>   Thank you for your help.  I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Betty Chow
> McGill University
-------->Betty:  There is very little written about the "hidden
curriculum" in second language classes.  You might look into the
classroom-based research literature in the language arts, such as that of
David Bloome or Judith Green.  Look into the journal Theory into Practice
around 1987.  Also, look into Fred Erickson's chapter in the handbook for
Research on Teaching, Merlin Wittrock, ed., 1986.  I have written a little
in this area myself: teaching and learning foreign languages is a process
of social interaction and more than just L2 is being learned:  attitudes
about the class, others in the class, the teacher, the subject matter,
etc.  The early work of Sue Philips and Katherin (sp?) Au, also the work
by Cocheran-Smith "The Making of a Reader" all deal with the issue of the
"hidden curriculum" in some way or another.
        Please write back if there is more I might be able to help you with.
----------
Frank B. "Pete" Brooks
The Florida State University
Tallahassee, FL  32306
(904) 644-3240
e-mail: fbrooks@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
Oops:  See Bloome, D. & Puro, P.  (1987).  Understanding Classroom
Communication: Instructional Issues.  Theory into Practice, 26, 26-31.
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:58:44 -0700
From:         LCINKO@ARIZVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Document Hunting

Sorry for sounding too talkative on this network, but this time I have a querry
(plus, this is my favorite network!!!...).  I am trying to get in touch with
Susan. M BAcon and Michael Finneman to read the presentation they gave during
the 1990 SLA-FLL Conference.  The title of the presentation was "The
identification of gender differences in university foreign language students in
relation to general language-learning beliefs dealing with authentic input."  If
the above mentioned authors are on the network, I would very much appreciate
them faxing me the document or sending it using e-mail.  Maybe the SLA-FLL
Conference has that in its archives too... In 1990, the conference took place
at the university of Illinois.  This document is not recorded by ERIC.

Another document which is not recorded by ERIC is another presentation by
Marks, M (1989), entitled "Video contextual clues in listening comprehension
for beginning Spanish students.  This presentation took place during a CALICO
symposium in Colorado Springs.

Could authors or anyone who has one or both documents be as kind as to send
them to me, or let me know how I could get them?  Thanks!...

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
     Lydie Meunier-Cinko
   lcinko@ccit.arizona.edu
    lcinko@arizvms.bitnet
    Fax #: (602) 881 5914
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: 6160lacya@vms.csd.mu.edu (Alan Lacy)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Subject: Foreign Language Requirements
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:32:41 GMT
Reply-To: 6160lacya@vms.csd.mu.edu
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

The College of Arts and Sciences at Marquette U. is considering eliminating 
the present four semester foreign language requirement for students 
pursuing the Bachelor of Science degree. 

The purported rationale for doing this includes:
   1) Students presently do not learn enough FL in four semesters to 
      "enable them to do anything".
   2) Graduate programs in natural sciences do not require FL study.
   3) Requirements for the major in natural sciences have grown to the point 
      that the students feel they cannot fulfill both these and the FL 
      requirement, and graduate in four years.

Does anyone have information on how natural science departments and 
professional organizations see the importance of foreign language study at 
the college level?

Has anyone out there faced the same situation? If so, what convincing 
arguments did you advance?

The (apparently) deciding committee meeting will take place next Thursday 
morning (Jan. 28).
Alan F. Lacy
Marquette University
6160lacya@vms.csd.mu.edu
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:12:20 EST
From:         B7RS000 <B7RS@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      E.R. Auerbach

Hi.
  I was wondering if you knew Elsa Roberts Auerbach's email number
or mailing address.  The most recent information (1985) that I have
is that she teaches at the University of Massachusetts at Boston.
I would appreciate your help very much.

Betty Chow
McGill University
email: b7rs@musicb.mcgill.ca
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:22:27 -0700
From:         "Barbara A. Lafford" <ATBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: International French networks

Does anyone have any information about LISTSERVES, bulletin boards, electronic
fora, e-mail pen pal programs, etc. in Spanish?  We would like to incorporate t
his kind of writing activity into our Spanish composition courses at Arizona St
ate University.   Thank you.

Barbara A. Lafford
965-4648/6281
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:09:22 +1000
From:         "MCKNIGHT, ALEX" <mcknightac@BRT.DEAKIN.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Errors in Spanish or Arabic

Have you tried Swan and smith Learner English, published by Cambridge
University Press? I,m at home so don,t have the book here, but it has chapters
on most of the common languageas and I,m fairly sure your languages are covered
in the book.
Alex McKnight Deakin University Malvern Victoria australia 3144
mcknightac@BRT.Deakin.edu.au
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:08:00 CST
From:         Jeri.Dies@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      Re: your mail

For a richer linguistic input, studying in the target language country
would seem to be superior.  However, language learning is more than
learning language.  I believe that we have to help learners to develop
and expand their knowledge about themselves as learners in general as
a means of increasing their success.  I think language learners are sometimes
seen a piece of velcro...throw as much at them as you can and see what sticks.
Those of us who did learn and become proficient by this method are probably
the exceptions.

Jeri Dies
UT Austin
jeri.dies@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"SLART-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:07:00 EDT
From:         RBSCOTT@CUTCV2.BITNET
Subject:      Re: socialization/empowerment

This is not about socialization empowerment.
This is a message for the K.U. alumnus, Leland
McCleary, in Brazil.  I can't seem to make your
address work on internet or bitnet, to answer
your message about Kansas experiences.  Can you
please remind me of the other address alternative
for you, the bitnet one?  Thanks.

Robb Scott/ rbscott@cutcv2
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:14:00 CST
From:         Jeri.Dies@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      Teaching Languages with NEWS

I found your article on using NEWS for teaching purposes to be very
interesting.  User friendly?  Maybe.  Have you read an upublished
dissertation by Peggy Beauvois using a LAN for teaching French?  We
will be more successful as language instructors if allow students to
choose to learn language that is meaningful for them and which allows
them to pursue individual learning goals.

Jeri Dies
UT Austin
jeri.dies@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU