HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun)
Subject: A3000 and Older models vs AGA chipset
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:01:30 PDT

The A3000 and older models cannot use the AGA chipset, and I 
seriously doubt if C= will ever make any sort of adaptor to
do so.  But I imagine they WILL, in the USA if not elsewhere,
offer a power up deal for users of older models, includingh
the A3000.  They will almost certainly NOT make any sort
of AGA card for the A3000.

-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------
bix: ruzun
NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Commodore Announces CD Solution Promotion
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:02:50 GMT

In <1992Sep10.225740.1795@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   The advantage of the ideal solution is that it would be vastly more 
>flexible in the long run.  For instance, with a Commodore or third-party CD-ROM
>drive connected via the SCSI port, it would be possible to allow the system
>to run Macintosh CD-ROM multimedia software under Emplant or A-Max.  It would
>also be potentially possible for Commodore to modify the Janus software to
>allow an Amiga equipped with a SCSI CD-ROM drive and a BridgeBoard to run
>IBM MPC software.  None of this is possible with this cheap hack, connecting 
>a CDTV to an Amiga via the parallel port.

Well Marc, this is, of course, as always, true garbage. There is NO reason
why an emulation software can't access the CDTV as a CD-ROM. This is possible
with a BB or with AMAX.

>their lack of a SCSI port.  The real tragedy is that replacing the SCSI port
>with an IDE port will not have the cost advantages that people are saying it
>will have, due to other bad decisions on Commodore's part.

Neglecting facts was always your strength. I can see a cost reduction of
about $200 in end-user price.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:19:11 GMT

In article <18gbk8INNo7b@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
|> Hey Frank, do you HAVE TO quote the whole 100+ lines just to add these two
|> irrelevant comments?

I *AM* sorry about that... I considered posting an apology-message... I just
switched over to a new news reader and the concept of block-editing somehow seems
to escape my comprehension. I can't get the damn thing to block-delete. As
soon as I'm finished today, I'll try to dig out a man page or someone who knows
how to use it.

Again, sorry. just for you, I'll hand-delete on this messsage.

|> >I refuse to repeat this one more time. Read through that statement, S-L-O-W-L-Y
|> >and carefully. THE AMIGA SUPPORTS NON-INTERLACED DISPLAY MODES AS WELL AS 
|> >INTERLACED ONES.
|> 
|> DID I EVER SAY THE AMIGA DOESN'T SUPPORT NON-INTERLACED VIDEO MODE?  WHERE
|> DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT I SAID SUCH THING?

By the way that you KEEP going on about how the Amiga's interlaced video is so
annoying, and that on the PC you'd rather switch down to a non-interlaced video
mode than use a higher-res interlaced one... my point is that you can do the 
SAME thing on the Amiga! So what's the big difference?

|> Sorry I have to shout, I hate it when people read into lines I didn't
|> write.
-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Falcon 030 specs released!  No more rumor...
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:21:26 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Sep3.180649.28840@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Your Conscience) writes:
>>Just GOTTA get something that will run 3 copies of the
>>same paint program!
>
>No, not a "drawing" program, a "line Drawing" program, one that makes lots of 
>colorful lines go flying around the screen.

Whoa!  It draws LINES, too?  That clinches it!  To hell with the
tune-up for the car...I'm gonna get me a Falcon!

>
>>>(in high-rez color on a graphics board of some type),
>>
>>Ands the wieght of the falcon didn't even crush the graphics board...
>>a very safe paperwieght!
>
>Huh? Oh, wait, sorry, another rabid Amiga user, as can be seen from the line  
>below, for a moment I was taking you seriously... Next time you decide to write
>something as inane as this, at least try to read the original post, it was 
>*not* on a falcon, it was on a Mega-4, which is surely heavy enough to crush 
>the graphics board, except that it fits inside the machine, just like most 
>graphics boards.
>
>>>a program was loading a GIF
>>>in the background,
>>
>>...on the amiga next door...
>
>{ Lots of absolutely amazingly childish stuff deleted }
>
>>Still, knowing Atari computers, Amiga users probably WILL be very
>>happy if this thing gets produced.  We all say C= doesn't advertise
>>enough... let's let Atari do it for us...AGAIN!
>
>Why is it that there seem to be a *few* Amiga owners out there who seem like 
>they somehow got access to the Net at the age of 12 or so? 

Hey, YOU posted to .advocacy.  So THERE!

>I suppose there are 
>some Atari users out there like this too?

Naw...they're too depressed after spending their money on Ataris.

>
>Hmmm... Well, as far as I can tell, MultiTos looks like it multi-tasks as well 
>as the Amiga (which, IMHO, is better than the Mac or PC by a long shot). The 
>only thing it won't do is Floppy Access while performing other functions, 
>however, if the Falcon has this new chip that controls drive access etc, then 
>maybe it will even do this? Anyone know?

I HAVE to believe that SOONER OR LATER, they'll get it to TALK TO
FLOPPIES.  As long as they KEEP ON TRYING and DON'T GIVE UP...

>Oh, I don't get the statement above about C= letting Atari advertise *for* 
>them? It makes no sense as far as I can tell, am I missing something, or is 
>this poster just missing his sense of humor?

Hmmm... that must be it.  or... could it be that he meant that
every Atari computer is an ad for Commodore?  Could he?  Maybe?
NAWWWW...

>---------------------------------------------------------------------->
>|-) -David Butler- dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>
>- who now has a shorter .sig file due to complaints...
>
>  |||        - FRANK ZAPPA for president! "One of his best qualifications is
> / | \         that at least he won't take it seriously." - Jammer

Well, maybe you should take some pointers from ol' Frankie Z, Dave...
From: dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Date: 12 Sep 1992 05:12:40 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep12.4477.28381@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>
> OK Commodore has announced the Amiga 4000 system at the World Of
>Commodore Show in Passadina.

> Now the big question!

> I know that there are two more days worth of announcements at the World
>Of Commodore show in Passadina. Has anyone who has been to the show
>asked about when AGA Chipset will be available for the Amiga 3000 and if
>it will work in on an Amiga 500/2000!

The answer is basically no. Apparently it is just too difficult. Figure
that since AGA is 32 bit, there is no way to just swap chips, it is a
major upgrade. Maybe some thrid party will do some dort of board like 
the 'Phoenix' for the A1000. 

As a side note, they did say that the 040 card in the A4000 would work
in the cpu slot of the A3000, and that it is the same as the card in the 
3000T/040.

/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Live   | David Leslie           |
|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Fast-  |                        |
|   \\\///      |        --        | Die    | dleslie@usc.edu        |
|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Young- |                        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:36:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.012710.12429@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

[ ]
>
>I've gone through this before on c.s.a.a.  I don't defend it, just point out
>that Amigans don't have >600K 'real' program coming out of their ears,
>either.

That's not true. Sound digitizing, etc...uses a lot of real memory. More than
a PC can deal with, without a headache.
>
>The things (like in GAMES) that takes up the most room - sound and graphics -
>can be loaded into the non-640K RAM.

Look, have you ever had a PC on a network? CD-ROM drive? MPC setup? etc...
If it's so bloody easy you tell me why several PC types have IRQ and DMA
and BIOS conflicts coming out of their ears. If alt you want to do is
stay home and run Wing Commander, then be mu guest. Moreover, you say it
can be loaded into non-640k memory. Which memory are you talking about? The
part under 1 meg?
>
>But that is an extender, but is useful until OS/2 or NT takes hold.
>Or PCs run fast enough to run fast games under Windows.

Windows can't run unless you have a config.sys and autoexec.bat file which
defines certain things in DOS. In particular, you must load sound, CD-ROM,
etc...then. Why won't Jerry comment as to why QEMM et al make a living off
of selling expanded memory managers. Junk, it's all junk.
 
As for Windows NT, I'll believe that when I see a finished version. OS/2 is
promising. It should have come out when the AT came out.

Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu

[no extended, expanded, real, imaginary RAM left. 8 megs have vanished.]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Winfried.Krueger@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Winfried.Krueger)
Subject: Re: Lynx (was Re: More Jeff Young Rambings)
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:46:58 GMT

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:

>> <etxansk.715941983@garbod20>
>Sender: 
>Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: 
>Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.
>Keywords: rubbish,utter rubbish,total rubbish

>In article <etxansk.715941983@garbod20> etxansk@garbod20.ericsson.se (Anders Skelander) writes:
>> I was thinking of Shiraz Shivdji (hope I spelled his name correctly),
>>I thought the C64 was "his" child, as the Atari ST is.

>I forgot about Shiraz.  No, the C64 couldn't be considered his baby.
>It was definitely the Al and Bob show.  Shiraz was doing other things
>back then.  He was more involved in the 'high end' machines.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    
C16, Plus4 ??? =8-)

>			andy

winnie.
From: hassinger@lmrc.com (Bob Hassinger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:52:56 GMT
Organization: Liberty Mutual Research Center, Hopkinton, MA

In article <copes.716441585@marsh>, copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:
> boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg) writes:
> 
>>>> >Since there is a modular CPU design, Jim Dionne mentioned they might
>>>> >consider a RISC board. (por favor!)
> 
>>>> This Risc board idea sounds like a pipe dream to me - especially since
>>>> 3.0 has more of the OS downcoded into assembly.
> 
>>>They should have spent the money they spent on THIS improving the compiler.
> 
> A RISC board would only be of use to a UNIX box.  NO SOFTWARE AT ALL would run
> on it, if used for a general amiga.
> Perhaps a RISC unix machine is in the works?
> 
...
> copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

A reasonable analysis.  However, it may be a bit early to write off the
possibility of AmigaDOS running on a RISC processor.  Keep in mind what DEC is
doing with their Alpha RISC system.  They are porting VMS complete, including a
number of application porting capabilities including the ability to run VAX
programs without recompiling (with some performance loss of course, but on a
200 Mhz chip maybe that's not too bad.)

Now for some real speculation - DEC and Commodore recently announced a
cooperative agreement without saying much about what it was going to involve. 
DEC has been very busy lining up third parties to use the Alpha chips in all
sorts of products.  They seem to want it to be the next near universal
architecture.  I just saw an announcement that Raytheon I think has already
announced an Alpha chip based system for their military and related markets for
example.

The 680x0 and VAX architectures are similar at least on some levels, so some of
the ideas and tools DEC is using for VAX to Alpha ports might have some
applicability in a 680x0 to Alpha port too.

On the other hand, Commodore is not DEC when it comes to resources for such a
massive project, and Commodore has rarely shown the capacity to mount and
sustain to conclusion a project like this would be.

Anyway, its fun to speculate and dream about it...
From: gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Date: 14 Sep 92 02:19:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Sep14.021905.9113
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep12.222650.2394@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>Well the news from the WOC just reached my site.
>Glad to know my not yet paid for A3000 is an orphaned
>machine.

	Would you people *GET REAL*?  I've never seen such a bunch of whiners
in one place.  Just because the A3000 does not support AGA does not make it
'orphaned.'  Apple has plenty of non-color Mac systems, just because they
don't support color like their Mac II brothers does not make them orphans.
People complain and complain that Commodore doesn't move forward, then 
when they do they bitch because ALL the new stuff can't be used in their 
machines.  People should be more excited about Commodore's DIG/RTG plans
than AGA anyways...Once the OS is fully device independant, you will see
loads of cheap graphic boards for all models.

>Just who is going to develop software for the new AA chips?
>Since none of the current machines can use them I see no reason to.

	People developed new software for Amiga (and every other computer)
when they were new...Sure it will take a while but it will happen.
New Horizons has already announced that ProWrite 3.3 will use the new 
graphic modes.  Newer versions of AdPro also support them already.

>And what's the deal with the A600? And the A3000T/040? It makes
>no sense at all! None! Two newly released machines that can't use
>the new chips? Who's going to buy them? Especially the A600? And if

	The A3000T/040 is a valid concern.  The A600 isn't.  Just because
Commodore released a new graphics chip doesn't mean a machine with the
old graphic set is instantly worthless.  Even after Commodore released the
Amiga, more people bought C64s despite the fact that Amiga is superior
in terms of graphics, sound, speed, etc.  The A3000T/040, which is
priced much higher than the 4000, though, is a mystery.  Maybe it's aimed
at people who prefer a tower case and SCSI over a non-tower/IDE system.

>/* The AA chips are here! Too bad they won't work in my A3000	*/
>/* Once again C= screws its entire user base. Way To Go!	*/
>/* Now I konw how the A1000 owners felt. Oh well.		*/

	Technology moves on.  Deal with it.
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Unreal demo!
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:11:27 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <18rbafINN2ep@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jdutka@buckaroo.WPI.EDU (John Dutka) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.033424.17056@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>Yes, the Alpha machines will be fast...I hope DEC doesn't try to turn
>>Alpha machines into some kind of super propriety VAX-type like with
>>VMS - hopefully UNIX and Windows NT on the Alpha will prevent that.  Oh,
>>and isn't the Alpha to be sold?  So much more propreitary :-) opps.
>
>I hope so - WPI just got an Alpha to test for about a month,
>and I have a rather computationallty intensive CFD program I'd

Rayteon has already announced a military grade computer with the Alpha
chips that I believe runs VMS.

I suspect that DEC will be pushing hardest with VMS and UNIX ( OSF/1 ).


--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:01:47 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>
>>You can't, but you can get a 386 box (no HD or monitor) for that price.  And
>>don't tell me that the 386 can't compete with the A500.
>
>It can't when it comes to EuroDemos.  Unreal on anything less than a 486
>is not comparable to an A500.  Of course, when it comes to real world
>(read boring) things like word processing, spreadsheets, and that sort
>of thing, the 386 shines.  :-)
>

I've seen Unreal on a friend's 486/50 and my 386/33.  There was very little
difference.  I suspect ISA is the limiting factor, not the CPU.  After a
couple of runs, however, Unreal is no big deal except the excellent music,
anyway.  Wing Commander II has animation which is more impressive than
Unreal's vector part.  My personal favarite part of Unreal is the one where
they have the spheres moving behind the "glass-like" lettering.

>
>Well, given that the motherboard for a 486 is not that much different from 
>any other Intel machine, I'd bet that the chip is $400 and the motherboard
>is $75.  The A500 is selling for less than $300, so the 486 chip is indeed
>more expensive.  :-)
>

$300 for an A500?  Where?  That is a great deal.

>
>Skip Sauls
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jsurace@cco.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:27:18 GMT


  Well, I was at WOC saturday. Although I was somewhat depressed about the
A400 before I went, I left VERY impressed. The reasons are:

1) AA chipset. Sure, its only 256 colors. But that is in EVERY screen mode,
from 320x200 to 1280x400 and the productivity 800x600 (roughly). In fact,
every color system is usable in every screen mode. That means you can have
a 1280x400 screen doing HAM-8 with 256000+colors on the screen. Further,
do to the extra horizontal resolution, fringes are almost unnoticeably
narrow. The stuff I saw was really super. Sure, MACS and PCs have their
256 color screens, but the HAM trick really blew them away. Its much better
than the old HAM.

2) Speed. The 25 mHz 040 machine was FAST. Really fast. I have an A3000,
and it still seemed fast. Remember, with 4x bandwidth,the chips are not just
4x as fast, as the Commodore engineers pointed out while we were there,
they get more time (apparently) to run in.                        

3) 2.1 & 3.0. A few big improvements. Disk cacheing. But mostly the
shared color palletes impressed me. I've often wondered why they didn't do
this earlier. There is now a fairly sophisticated color allocation system
for squeezing the most out of the chips. Pictures now dynamically share their
palettes, and even try to match their color to ones already used if no more are available. I saw 8 different 32-color images opened on a 64 color screen.
All of them looked very good, although by the 8th there was some minor
color degradation.


                                               - Jason Surace
                                                jason@ipac.caltech.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:33:05 GMT

In article <mykes.0dcv@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG>, mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep2.020303.15898@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
|> > iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
|> > : In article <jbickers.0ebi@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
|> > : >Quoted from <joe.715241690@milton> by amigo@milton.u.washington.edu (The Friend):
|> > :
|> > : >> at 800x600 (all with built-in windows acelleration for >$200)... the future
|> > : >>  promises a 1280x1024 card that does 256 colors at that res, 1024x768 with 16
|> > : >>  million colors - at a "reasonable price".
|> > : >
|> > : >    The _present_ offers that for the Amiga.
|> > :
|> > : Oh really? What Amiga card can I seamlessly run all my amiga apps on at
|> > : 1280x1024? What card is useable for all my apps? Oh..there isn't one?
|> >
|> > GVP EGS? Well, it does 1600*1280 in 16M colors too...
|> >
|> 
|> Has anyone seen this EGS for real?

Define "for real"

For sale? Uhm.. well.. no.

In use? Yes, at this summer's World Of Amiga in New York. I even have 3 pages
of very impressive specs. There are some modes built into the thing that GVP
**CANNOT** find a normal video monitor to display... better than SUN & NeXT 
resolution, they simply listed them as EGS-x and defined them as "special
applications"... guess something like the Times Square billboard.

(I don't have those specs handy, but the resolutions were something in
disgusting four-digit numbers... like up to 3200x2400 in 256 colors or something)

|> > Jarkko Lindblad
|> > lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
|> 
|> --
|> Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
|> Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
|> Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
|> 1124 Fremont Ave.
|> Los Altos, CA 94024
|> 

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.