HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ch2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christopher  Houston)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:45:39 GMT

Regarding timeouts and penalties on WRGPTII...

> From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
> Yes. Part of the problem with a shortened timeout is that you never
> really know when your timeout is, unless you are sitting there waiting 
> for your mail (and then it wouldn't matter anyway). For example, you can
> look at the first message of a new hand, see a timeout of tomorrow morning, yet
> the timeout when it gets to you will be late today instead.

EXACTLY!  That's what screwed me up, and, like someone wrote previously, now
that it's happened twice, I feel like I'm  doomed for a downward spiral.
Again, at the very least, I think everyone's twelve hours should be restored
at the start of the next round (ie., the semifinal round).

Adios,
Christopher Houston
ch2m@poe.acc.virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rcj2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (ray.c.jender)
Subject: Re: CFD: Creation of Rec.Gambling.Lottery
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:13:27 GMT

In article <71533@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>Maybe the proposed "rec.gambling.lottery" should be renamed :
>"rec.gambling.stupidity_tax"...
>

	...and I will gladly subscribe to it as soon as I win!!!
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:38:39 GMT

From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
Subject: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:12:58 GMT

> During conversations with Ron Duursma over the last few weeks, it has come
> to my attention that there may be other people in the same "spot" as myself -
> having timed out twice (or worse) and finding themselves unable to "keep up"
> with the game due to the radically shortened timeout that we now face,
> particularly if on the west coast.

> I would like to propose that timed-out players be allowed to "earn
back" their
> timeout hours with things like advance actions and so-many-hands-without-a-
> timeout. 

> While Ron has indicated that he is unwilling to make this change in the
> middle of the tourney, I feel (maybe wrongly so) that enough interest
>in such a change may persuade him (and the others of the "rules comittee").

> Comments?

The game at our table (& at most tables, I bet) is so abysmally slow
that the only hope for making the game playable is the timeouts.

12 hours (9-9 EST) was the initial timeout & that should be PLENTY of
time to act.  In fact you usually have about 24 hours.  Not to mention
the advance plays, which can avoid any delay.

I can sympathize with someone timing out once.  But, then you've only
lost 2 hours & that shouldn't be critical.  But, I just have no sympathy
for people who have timed out more than once.  If you're afraid of
running into a problem with an upcoming play, go on vacation.  That's
what the command is for.

I put in a strong vote for NOT allowing any way to increase timeouts.

JR, the Younger
From: mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM (Manuel 'Manny' Raposa)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Tahoe casinos...
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:17:23 GMT
Reply-To: mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: thebookstore


	I just got a copy of the guide to Nevada casinos ($5 from RGE), 
and I was amazed to see the number of tables at Harrah's and Harvey's
casinos in So. Lake Tahoe.

	I haven't been to Tahoe for years, since it became the yuppie
hot spot out of the bay area.  And I've never been a fan of Harrah's
anywhere (too pretentious), although I did like Bill's the last time
I was up there 5 or 6 years ago.

	So, what's the scoop?  Do Harvey's and Harrah's each have over
100 tables?

	Just curious...

		Manny

---
* Manuel J. Raposa         |  I've been to two zoos,                    *
* manuel.raposa@Eng.Sun.Com|                and a county fair,          * 
* Sun Microsystems, Inc.   |  and I ain't NEVER seen nothing like this! * 
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: franks@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Derek Franks)
Subject: Re: Pick-3/4 games
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:58:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

The only strategy I have ever heard of for playing any kind of Lotto is:

	pick #'s that are not commonly picked by other players, that way
	there is less chance of having to share the top prize with someone
	who picked the same as you.  People often pick birthdays, so 1-12
	and 1-31 are among the most common picked.

I'm not sure if this applicable to Pick-3/4, but there it is! 8-0)
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: New Orleans Casino
Date: 16 Dec 1992 20:55:55 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <1992Dec16.155407.28759@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
>In article <1glq5rINN39g@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>Like maybe bigger even than Caesar's.
>>
>But probably with the same crummy BJ ......

I bet you can get some GREAT bj in N'awlins. ;->

>Also, the Louisiana riverboats will have no limits either.
>Hopefully there will be Poker.

Speaking of which, the Ft. McDowell Indian Reservation, about
40 minutes from here, is now advertising "high-stakes poker"
as part of its casino operations.

>                  "Will the Governor be allowed to draw markers against
>                   the quarterly taxes at the craps tables?"

				--Blair
				  "Where's Huey Long when you
				   need a truly immoral saint?"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Subject: Poker Book Order
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:34:18 EST


For those of you who ordered poker books, they have just arrived and I'll be
reshipping them to you tomorrow.




Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
From: indy@immacc.prepnet.com (Dave Tartaglia)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Auto racing betting
Date: 18 Dec 1992 09:46:01 -0600
Organization: 'Immaculata College, PA '
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Does anyone know if it is possible to place bets on auto racing anywhere?
I'm not a stick-and-ball sports fan, but I do follow auto racing. Do any
odds makers follow NASCAR, Indy or Formula One?
--
Dave Tartaglia    indy@immacc.prepnet.com             === ZZ-|O\- .. _   
                                         VAROOOOM!......=(_)-=======(_)===
From: erich@access.digex.com (Eric J. Holtman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Ledyard (Connecticut ) Gambling
Date: 14 Dec 1992 02:15:09 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


Well, I'm new to the newsgroup, so I suppose I'll just get abused
for this, but here goes.....

How have other people here found the casino in Ledyard to
be??

They have most (all?) table games, I don't play poker, but
the BJ has S17, DOA, No surrender, 8 decks,  I seem to be
doing reasonably well there....

It does have windows, not ofen seen, I must say, and is *much* more
relaxed than AC, and *much* closer to Hartford than
Vegas.

What are some other rec.gambling experiences there??

Email if you want, if response warrants, I'll post...

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ibsnat@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gordon Tsuji)
Subject: Handicapping the NBA?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:53:03 GMT

 
December 17, 1992
 
I'm going to be in Vegas for Super Bowl weekend and would like to bet
on some NBA games.  I'm OK with handicapping NFL games, but have no
experience with the NBA.
 
I wondering if anyone has any thoughts or tips that'll help me handicap
the NBA.
 
Thanks in advance
 
--Daniel
From: jarnold@tixel.mv.com (Jon Arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RSSM Results
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 20:32:15 GMT
Organization: 
Reply-To: jarnold@tixel.mv.com

In article <q43mVB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca writes:
 >
 >         Could anyone who has had some success using the RSSM method
 > for roulette in Las Vegas please post their results?

For a fairly new reader of rec.gambling but one who is interested in this
topic, where can one learn more about thi RSSM roulette method?

Jon

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mweiss@mis.mi04.zds.com (Mitchell Weiss)
Subject: Re: CFD: Creation of Rec.Gambling.Lottery
Organization: Zenith Data Systems
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:04:58 GMT

In article <71533@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>Maybe the proposed "rec.gambling.lottery" should be renamed :
>"rec.gambling.stupidity_tax"...
>
>Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com

I do not know how you can say that lottery is any more of a "stupidity
tax" than almost any other type of gambling other than perhaps 
black jack and sports betting.  In all other games such as craps, roulette,
slots, etc, there is a known house advantage, as there is in the lottery.

The only issue is how much of a disadvantage.  And, if you don't think
that the casino's are paying taxes ...  

That is not to say that I don't play either of those games mentioned above.


----------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Weiss                        mweiss@zds.com
----------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Subject: Re: New Orleans Casino
Summary: No limits
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:54:07 GMT

In article <1glq5rINN39g@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com 
     (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.150908.4610@admin1.memst.edu> 
     sbrackstone@admin1.memst.edu writes:
>>Plans for the Caesar's World operated casino in New Orleans
>>call for 200,000 square feet of gaming area.  It will accomodate
>>about 7000 slots and 370 gaming tables, according to an article in the 
>>latest issue of Hotel and Motel Management.  Expected opening 
>>is late 1994 or early 95.
>
>I'm sorry, but that's fucking HUGE.
>
Yeah, but being the only game in town, and close to Texas......

>Like twice the size of the Mirage, and with three times the pit-space.
>
Yeah, and with _real_ Cajun food, great jazz and the shows on Bourbon
St. nearby.....

>Like maybe bigger even than Caesar's.
>
But probably with the same crummy BJ ......

>Is this place intended to have real gambling; i.e.,
>no limits other than those imposed by the management?
>(cf. riverboat "gambling" up the Missip)

Yep.  Also, the Louisiana riverboats will have no limits either.
Hopefully there will be Poker.
>
>				--Blair
>				  "No room at the inn my Aunt Jesus!"

                --Edmund
                  "Will the Governor be allowed to draw markers against
                   the quarterly taxes at the craps tables?"

-- 
Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
"You know, I think we're all Bozos on this bus."
"Detail Dress Circuits" "Belt: Above A, Below B" "Close B ClothesMode"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ajayj@microsoft.com (Ajay Jindal)
Subject: BJ: 6 deck strategies
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:38:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Which of following books cover basic strategy and counting strategies for
6 deck blackjack games:

BlackBelt in BJ
World's Greatest BJ book
Professional BJ

I want to get them because they seem to have reasonable counting strategies
in them based on the info in the FAQ.  I already have BJ as a Business and
aside from a Basic Strategy chart for 4+ decks, the rest of the book seems
to deal with only single deck games.  Does anyone know what changes should
be made to the chart for the Revere PM counting strategy if you're using
6 decks?

Also, does hit soft 17 have any affect on the basic strategy?

How likely is it to find single deck games where counting strategies are
effective?  Games where they don't shuffle after every hand or continually
shuffle cards back into the deck using a machine.

Thanks.
Ajay.

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (mw)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:24:38 GMT

In article <slaven.724702843@pv740a.vincent.iastate.edu> slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven) writes:

>Hi.  The members of the "committee" have been fairly silent in this
>debate.  I guess i'm sort of a member (it's a pretty loose
>organization), so i'll break the silence.  Mind you, i'm not speaking
>FOR the committee here, so don't take any of this too seriously.  

[ * CHOMP * ]
>I guess the bottom line is this.  In order for the tournament to be
>enjoyable, it has to move at a reasonable speed.  As a result, the
>World Rec.Gambling Poker Tournament is not for everyone.  It requires
>a fairly solid mail connection, and it requires a commitment to check
>mail often.

Absolutely.

[ * CHOMP * ]
>Anyway, the discussion has provided food for thought for WRGPT3.
>Dave Slaven 

Sort of a member eh? Awright lemme ask you then... Ya spose its gonna
be possible to make WRGPT3 international? I think it would be very amusing
to extend invitations (with explanations) to all the soc.culture.* (and
there's tons of 'em) and get a real variety crowd at the game. I spose it
would hafta max out at 1000 players or so cause I'm sure Ron Duursma has
enough headaches administrating the tournament for a mere 130, but its
something to think about no? It could be called the tower of Babel tourney,
and a typical table might have seated at it as diverse a crowd as say:
Bengali, Japanese, Brazilian, American, Dutch, Italian, Thai, Nigerian, 
Australian etc... 

OK, call me crazy but that what I call a colorful tourney. As a matter of
fact its one of the things that I think makes the live gaming scene so
interesting, its such a cosmopolitan industry (sure as hell is in Las Vegas
anyway). 

Anyway, I hereby wish to extend my compliments to Ron Duursma et al whom
I feel are doing an exceptional job. More than once now I've gotten quick
replies to my questions from the floorman.

 
         _/     _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ 
       _/_/ _/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/
     _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/       _/    _/   
   _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/        |\     /|
 _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/          | ``''' |
                                                        \(O) (O)/
           messiah@redrock.nevada.edu                 __  \   /  __
 ----------------------------------------------------oooO--(_)--Oooo--
 




Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven)
Subject: Re: Poker Book Order
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:49:00 GMT

In <1992Dec15.173418.8611@sei.cmu.edu> weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock) writes:


>For those of you who ordered poker books, they have just arrived and I'll be
>reshipping them to you tomorrow.

Thank goodness!  I've got pocket rockets, and i DON'T KNOW WHAT TO
DO!!!!!

-- 
Dave Slaven 

"And if you must keep talking, please try to make it rhyme." 
               --Mose Allison
From: wilding@cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Wilding)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Keno and Bingo
Date: 16 Dec 1992 13:38:14 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

Steve writes:
> OK, Keno fans.  Here's a program to compute the odds in Keno.
> You'll have to supply the playoff schedule ...

Gee.  Is there a World Series of Keno in our future?

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: howard@tybalt.ultra.com (Howard Simonson)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Reply-To: howard@ultra.com
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:06:58 GMT

Two of my cents for the pot:

I have been victim of mail failure occasionally, and its *really* frustrating.
But I've been lucky enough that it hasn't bit me, timeout-wise.

However, many of us have "alternate paths" we can exercise to deal with the
occasional outage, and with a touch of work on the part of the server, would
make things a bit more fault tolerant.  Here's the plan:

Issue a kinda "password" to a player, which can only be sent to their
"primary" mail address" and can only be changed via mail originated at their
"primary" mail address.  Then, a player can log on somewhere else (another
machine/company/CompusServe?) and mail status requests and commands using
their password.  I could have used this a couple of times so far.

I realize its no solution for those that have a single, flaky mail-path,
but at least its a potential solution for some of us.

On the other topics:

I vote YES on reinstatement of original timeouts at the beginning of a round.

I vote YES to some system of earning back time, though I haven't heard
anything I'd vehemently agree with yet.  I might suggest the same thing that
takes it away, should put some back.  That is, have the server take a look
at the response time from the [time-shortened] player and add back minutes
based on a percentage of time left that was unused.  So as the player
responds faster, more timeout is restored until the original timeout is
reached.

Just an idea...
-- 
-------------  ----   ----   ----  ----  -----  -----  -- ---------------------
|J -------- |  |   \  |   \  |     |       |    |   |  || |
|  |/\=== | |  |   /  |   /  |     |       |    |   |  || |
|------------- |---   |---   ---   ----    |    |   |  || |    This space
||A          | |      |\     |        |    |    |   |  || |
||    /^\    | |      | \    |        |    |    |   |     |
||   /   \   | |      |  \   ----  ----    |    -----  [] |     for rent.
||  / /|\ \  |____________________________________________|
||  L/_|_\J  |                                            |
-|    )|(    | EM: howard@ultra.com/VM: (408)922-0600 x228|____________________
 |    ---   V| Ultra Network Technologies*101 Daggett Dr*San Jose*CA*95134-2132
 ------------- [ My disclaimer is on file in the main office ]
From: jamesr@Autodesk.COM (James Rowell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:42:15 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton) writes:
> 
> >I take his argument to be more that we should allow for the inescapable
> >reality that email is not perfect.  I myself have never (yet) timed out,
> >but I think the current time-out scheme needs some reworking. 
> 
> Likewise.  How about -this- proposal:  If someone has timed-out and lost,
> say, 2 hours, then every advance bet they make [that actually gets played]
> wins them back, ohh, 10 minutes of timeout.  
> 
> That way, someone who has caused a table delay can reduce their punishment
> by helping speed things up at their table.  Now admittedly some folks will
> have to suffer because of hard/software beyond their control, but that's life.

Seems like a good idea.  It helps those who have be "wronged" by the mailer.

Conversely I'd like to see a way to force players to speed up who
continually take a long time to bet BUT don't time-out.  For example,
there are several players at my table who have repeatedly caused lengthy
delay only to fold, and I'm sure in most of these cases an advance bet
could have been made.  Getting several such players in one pot means it
takes forever to complete.  Hence the slow tables.

How about subtacting some factor of time from your time-out period for
each delay you cause based upon the length of the delay.  It doesn't
have to be extreme, but enough so that many repeated lengthy delays will
really add up.  In conjunction with some variation of John Hallyburton's
proposal to allow players to recover any lost time, we may end up with a
fair system for all.

James.
From: ov@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Olaf Vancura)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Keno returns (cont'd)...
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:04:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA


I recently posted Keno returns for 1-15 balls.  For completeness,
the following is a special game offered at some casinos where you 
choose 20 balls with a wager of $5.  Notice the payoffs for a small 
number of catches...

As before,
Columns are 1) Number of spots picked.
 	    2) Number of spots caught.
	    3) Probability of catching this number.
	    4) Payoff for this number caught (from Riverside in
	       Reno, but very similar to others).
            5) Expected return for that number caught.

Assumes $5 bet...
  20   0  1.19E-03  5.00E+02  5.93E-01
  20   1  1.16E-02  1.00E+01  1.16E-01
  20   2  4.97E-02  5.00E+00  2.49E-01
  20   3  1.25E-01  5.00E+00  6.24E-01
  20   4  2.05E-01  0.00E+00  0.00E+00
  20   5  2.33E-01  0.00E+00  0.00E+00
  20   6  1.90E-01  0.00E+00  0.00E+00
  20   7  1.13E-01  5.00E+00  5.66E-01
  20   8  4.99E-02  1.00E+01  4.99E-01
  20   9  1.63E-02  2.50E+01  4.07E-01
  20  10  3.94E-03  5.00E+01  1.97E-01
  20  11  7.02E-04  2.00E+02  1.40E-01
  20  12  9.12E-05  1.00E+03  9.12E-02
  20  13  8.47E-06  5.00E+03  4.23E-02
  20  14  5.49E-07  1.25E+04  6.86E-03
  20  15  2.40E-08  5.00E+04  1.20E-03
  20  16  6.68E-10  1.00E+05  6.68E-05
  20  17  1.10E-11  1.00E+05  1.10E-06
  20  18  9.51E-14  1.00E+05  9.51E-09
  20  19  3.39E-16  1.00E+05  3.39E-11
  20  20  2.83E-19  1.00E+05  2.83E-14
Total Return for each 5.0 bet:            3.53E+00
Or about 71%...

Olaf Vancura
ov@cfa257.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:12:01 GMT

In <1992Dec17.075647.24027@nevada.edu> messiah@nevada.edu (mw) writes:

>In article <1goknqINNchr@fido.asd.sgi.com> hashimoto@sgi.com (Roy Hashimoto) writes:

>>P.S.  As an idea for the next tournament, perhaps we could post the players'
>>mean and median response times with the standings.  Then instead of random
>>draws for seating in the next round, we could organize it by response time,
>>putting the faster players together and the slower players together.


>That's a great idea. 

Actually, this is a bad idea.  Table 5 already has a very long wait
for round 2.  (They're done with round 1.  Most tables have at least 8
players left, and i think one still has all 11.)  I don't think we
should make this wait longer by systematically creating an extremely
slow table.
-- 
Dave Slaven 

"And if you must keep talking, please try to make it rhyme." 
               --Mose Allison
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kaufman@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Stephen A. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Software review: Stanford Wong's Video Poker
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:05:41 GMT

In article <lipnc6INNg3l@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>What I was originally after was a method to determine which
>flavor of machine had the highest expected return, and a method to develop
>the optimum playing strategy for dueces wild machines.  This software will
>give me the expected returns, but I will have to work at coming up with
>the strategy by defining possible hands and manually recording the expected
>return of each in order to rank them.
>
A pity that such a powerful program can't give you this info straight
up.  Spend $30 and get yourself a copy of Masque Vidoe Poker for
Windows.  It has an excellent, easily learned prsentation of the correct
strategy for deuces wild full pay machines, yielding 100.7%  yes -
played perfectly the player has an edge on this machine!

Dr. K.