HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bish@xanodria.UUCP (Doug Bischoff)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Extended trail ride questions.
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:37:25 EST
Organization: Xanodria

    Hello all.	More questions.

    When I was getting fairly good at staying on the horse at all gaits, I
suggested to my friend that we take the horses out overnight or perhaps over
a weekend and make it a camping trip.  She's a VERY outdoors-y person, so I
was very surprised when she VEHEMENTLY refused.  Her reasoning was that we'd
have to carry food AND water for the horses as well as ourselves.

    Now call me naieve, but I thought that horses were once wild animals
that could drink water from practically any (non-industrial waste
contaminated, of course) water source.	Do horses have to worry about
Giradelli and bacteria and all that jazz like we fragile humans do?  Would
Iodine tabs help?  And as for food, so I loosen up a bit and let my horse
graze as we're walking and find a campsite with lotsa grass and tie 'em with
a long rope.

    Am I way off base here?  If not, could someone tell me what precautions
and planning is necessary to assure that the horses will be properly cared
for on an extended ride (perhaps even to weeks long?)  Thanks!

--
----
Doug Bischoff		 Xanodria: Step Into a Storybook \
3103 Leidolf Ct.	   Where YOU become the hero in   EMail for Info
Floyds Knobs, IN 47119	 an authentic Fantasy Adventure! /
----
bish@xanodria.UUCP  -or-  coplex.com!bish%xanodria.UUCP  -or-  DEB110@psuvm
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Help! My horse has turned into a juvenile delinquent!
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:33:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)

>First off, I know full well that this is a problem due to ME not 
>spending enough time doing proper training (like most manners problems!).

>This sweet-tempered young stallion who is a marshmallow at any other time 
>has recently gotten to the point (says the barn manager) where even she is
>afraid to lead him down the aisle because he rears and screams and
>does all sorts of stallion nonsense at other horses in their stalls. 

>I find this behaviour problem to be TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

	Good.

>Is he just on Testosterone Overload?

	No, this is dominance behavior, however it is also the horse, any horse,
not just a stallion, having too much energy.  This horse needs work and lots of
it.  Many many miles of trail or any kind of really exhausting physical work
such as dressage would be good for him.  With a continuous program of hard
work this horse should settle down, especially with the willing attitude you
talk about.  Alternatively finding him a place where he can live on pasture
and self-exercise might help.  Check his diet also, you may have to reduce
all sources of grain to virtually nothing and increase the amount of grass
hay in his diet correspondingly.
	However ... and this is a big however ... if you cannot work him
or find him a pasture and you, understandably, don't want him to be sent to a
bad trainer (not even a good dressage trainer???  Tell me what part of the 
country you are in and maybe I can get a recommendation from my dressage 
coach!) then gelding him may be the only alternative to him hurting someone.

					Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: gblanck@vermont.Eng.Sun.COM (Greg Blanck)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Stubben Saddle For Sale
Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:24:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: gblanck@vermont.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: vermont

		FOR SALE

Stubben Parzival, All-Purpose. Stretched, medium tree (31),
17" seat.

Saddle has recently been appraised by Stubben factory representative,
and is in excellent condition. Asking $500.

Please call:

	Lisa Frey
	H: (415) 365-4741
	W: (415) 244-6805

Or email to: Greg.Blanck@Eng.Sun.Com



Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tonyp@convex.com (honey bunny)
Subject: Gorey Details to DON'T RIDE WITH HORSE IN TRAILER
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:21:07 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

*ALOT* of people have asked about "well, what happened?"

For those of you who like to watch executions and
aftermaths of shootouts on TV, read on.

If you don't like Gore, hit "n" now.
































































When they turned one of those hair-pin corners we have Bill must
have been between the wall and the horse. The horse fell into Bill
and crushed his ribcage. He fell to the floor, and for the rest of
the 20 miles the horse (Clydesdale size) stepped on the upper part
of his body - including head. 

When they got to the vet and his wife got out of the truck she 
noticed that the back of the trailers had red all over it. She
opened the door and found him.

This was last summer.


    D O N ' T     R I D E     I N     H O R S E     T R A I L E R S     ! ! !


--
    Tony J. Podrasky          - When God was making big men,
     San Diego , Ca                        -and- 
    tonyp@convex.com            When God was making little men,
QSL? QRU? QRZ? QLZ? QFA?        Samuel Colt was making  EVENERS     - unknown  
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Stallions
Date: 19 Dec 1992 00:19:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <1992Dec18.183222.6267@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>I heartily second all the posts about being extremely careful around stallions.
>Even a 'pussy cat' can turn into a tiger when there's a mare in heat around.

I agree with the general idea that you should be careful with stallions
and not forget that they ARE stallions, and, in particular, keep
an eye out for mares.  You have a responsibility when handling a
stallion to be aware of what other horse handlers are doing around
the stallion.

There is one idiot at our barn who is big into tackless training, and
who lets his mare wander around without a halter & lead.  It apparantly
took a long while to get it through his head that it was a Really Bad Idea
to do this when a stallion was turned out in one of the paddocks!

However, I think a lot of stallions get to
be dangerous when people treat them as if they will be dangerous.
They should abide by the same rules of good manners that a mare or
gelding does, and the handler should discipline them appropriately.
The degree of discipline depends upon the personality of the individual
stallion.  I've seen people really lay into stallions for minor 
transgressions.  If a young stallion nips at you, you should correct
him, just as you would if a young filly nips at you.  A protracted
beating with a whip is IMHO more likely to make him belligerant
in the long run than to instill proper discipline.  Stallions
aren't monsters, they are just horses to the nth degree.


Debbie 
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Recommended Sources:  Is Eventing Humane?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:08:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

There's also a "panel" in this month's Practical Horseman in which
Jane Sleeper, Eileen Thomas and Karen Stives answer the question:
"How should Upper Level Eventing Change".

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: jd@rust.zso.dec.com (John D'Addamio)
Subject: Re: History of Dressage v2.01
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 18:31:34 GMT


1. You obviously don't know any French. The word for horse is cheval.
Cavalerie means cavalry. I was suggesting that people overlook the
obvious things(like titles) when they are looking for "evidence" to
support their position.

2. Yes, I do think kings went into battle, especially in the Middle
Ages and Renaissance. Read your Shakespeare for example. Even in Baucher's 
day, the head of the  Comite de Cavalerie was the Duke d'Orleans(The Dauphin 
and heir to the throne)

3. No, you missed the point. The principles of dressage were developed
by and for military men. It is true that the schools were founded at the
courts but surely you don't think that kings and emperors were doing
this for humanitarian reasons or to provide entertainment for their
subjects? They were trying to improve the skills of their court nobles
who happened to be their cavalry officers and who also happened to be 
their sons, brothers, cousins, etc. By having good riding schools at their 
courts, kings gained prestige and had well trained cavalry officers. 

4. Re "interest and marvel"...simply that anyone would bother to enter
all that. Frankly, I wouldn't have bothered. It's all available in books
and readily available to those who are interested. Besides, EVERYBODY's
outline of the history of dressage is biased and I am sure that my own 
would be too. For example, Col. Handler(director of the Spanish Riding 
School from 1965-1974) wrote a book about the SRS in which he gives an 
"outline" of important events in the history of equitation. Did you know 
that the only important thing to have happened in this century was 
Podhajsky's publication of "Complete Training of Horse and Rider?"

John
From: dennis@medusa.dseg.ti.com (dennis womack)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: help!
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:47:54 GMT
Reply-To: dennis@medusa.dseg.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.

In article 11DEC199210434729@watson.bms.com, detoro_l@watson.bms.com (Lauren Detoro (609) 252-4251) writes:
> Help!  Would one of you kind people subscribed to rec.equestrian let me know 
> if you are getting this posting?????  I am not a computer genius (to say the 
> least) and have no idea if my messages are posting.  
> Thanks
> -Lauren 


Is coming through just fine!
.. Dennis
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: edb@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (emily.d.brooks)
Subject: Re: horsey hams dead band last night
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:43:00 GMT

   (stuff deleted)
> 
> The 2-meter handheld radios are small and light, and have about a 6 inch
> antenna.  I keep mine in a fanny pack when I ride.  You can communicate
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   ( more stuff deleted)

Please re-think where you wish to carry this equipment.  I know that it will
be nice if it does not disappear into the sunset should you and your trusty
mount part company but . . .

A friend broke her back in a fall onto hard ground because she fell on her
Walk-Man clipped to her waist.  Built in rocks you do not need.  I no longer
even carry my pager on my body - on my saddle, yes.

Please be careful!

Emily
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: quito@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marco Quito Perlman)
Subject: Check out clari.sports.misc
Keywords: eventing
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 21:27:30 GMT

Subject says it all: check out clari.sports.misc.  World Cup results are
posted...

Brazil's Rodrigo Pessoa took 5th on Special Envoy!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------
_P_a_l_m_e_i_r_a_s RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stanford Cardinal: 1992 Pac-10 co-champions!
quito@leland.stanford.edu
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, and for no one else!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: jscott@adobe.com (Joyce D. Scott)
Subject: Good grief, spurs, not stirrups!
Followup-To: rec.equestrian
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:59:20 GMT

I can't believe I posted this using the word stirrup everywhere I meant
*spur*!!  I beg you to bear with me and try it with the correct noun in
place...

OK, I admit I feel dumb asking, so be kind please.  I also don't know the
names of the anatomical regions of these gadgets, so be patient.

Which way up do English spurs go?  

On an English spur the point (the business end) seems to be at an angle
to the curved part that goes around the ankle.  I have not found a picture
in any of my horsie books of a rider with English spurs showing to use
as a reference.  The reference book I have mentions when to wear them, but
not how.  I have found a few pictures in catalogs.  State Line seems to
think the point goes up.  Rick's appears to be just as convinced that it
goes down.  Miller's doesn't sell any and doesn't show any on the boots
they sell.  My teacher said up, I think, but my new spurs have printing
on the inside with the makers name and if I point them up, the printing is
upside down.  

Can someone out there enlighten me before I go out and embarrass myself at
a (schooling) show?

Joyce

By the way, Gail Snow, Joe Keefe says hi!
From: bigrasl@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Help Dog chases Horse
Date: 19 Dec 92 18:20:46 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

Help!!!  I need advice on this one.
I have a nine month old male standard schnauzer who has taken up
chasing my horse.  He has done this four times to date.
It has occurred when I went to take him out of his pen adn he jumped 
through my arms and took off after her.  The last time he ran her
3/4 of her pasture till I was able to cath him.  Also this last time 
she kicked at him three times with her hind legs.  In order for her
not to continue kicking at him I made her go faster so that she
couldn't make contact.  It appears that they are both jealous of each
other.  A couple of days ago I had the dog on lead and had him in a
sit outside the paddock and I was letting him look at the horse.
He was behaving himself fine however, the horse started trotting in
the paddock as if she wanted him to chase her.  I bought the dog
in hopes of being able to take him out on the trail with me when 
he got older.  So I would really like them to get along.  How does
one go about this?  Any help in this matter would be appreciated.
From: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Good grief, spurs, not stirrups!
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:48:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 

To: jscott@adobe.com

JD . Which way up do English spurs go?  
JD . 
JD . On an English spur the point (the business end) seems to be at an angle
JD . to the curved part that goes around the ankle.  I have not found a picture
JD . in any of my horsie books of a rider with English spurs showing to use
JD . as a reference.  The reference book I have mentions when to wear them, but
JD . not how.  I have found a few pictures in catalogs.  State Line seems to
JD . think the point goes up.  Rick's appears to be just as convinced that it
JD . goes down.  Miller's doesn't sell any and doesn't show any on the boots
JD . they sell.  My teacher said up, I think, but my new spurs have printing
JD . on the inside with the makers name and if I point them up, the printing is
JD . upside down.  
JD . 
JD . Can someone out there enlighten me before I go out and embarrass myself at
JD . a (schooling) show?

I would assume that you're instructor knows best, if he/she/it is a 
decent teacher.  Why are you wearing spurs at all, particularly pointed 
ones?  Spurs are for advanced riders who know what they're doing, not 
novices.  You EARN your spurs by learning to ride without them, then add 
them to refine your aids.  Spurs are for aiding not punishing.

steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King)
From: fks@vaxeline.ftp.com  (Frances K. Selkirk)
Subject: Re: Latest UPDATE: Book/Video/Movie List
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: fks@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:06:28

What about _The Horse and his Boy_, by C.S. Lewis? It was one of the
Narnia books. A Talking Horse needs a token human to help him escape across
a hostile country, and so persuades a boy (who is about to be sold as a 
slave) to pose as a servant transporting him.

Great book! The riding lessons that the horse gives the boy are very amusing...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"There is nothing in life so complicated that a Microsoft manual can't
make it completely incomprehensible."			-Douglas Adams

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: jen187@mis.csiro.au (Graham Jenkins +61 6 276 6812)
Subject: Oh for a holiday...
Organization: CSIRO ITS
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 01:04:05 GMT




G'day folks,

I'm taking about 3 weeks off over the christmas/new year
period so I won't be reading rec.equ for a while.
All of you, (and your horses), have a really good christmas
and a great new year. Take it easy out there and I hope to
read you ALL again in 93.

My ftp machine will be on so feel free to call in and get
all those gifs.

I've had a number of responses to my ideas about sending the
gifs as uuencoded files to alt.binaries.pictures.misc for those
of you unable to ftp. I'll probably send a couple of test
pictures when I get back from my leave. Also the idea of you
sending me pictures of your horse to scan and put in the ftp
area seems to be pretty popular. The most common comment was;
"Wouldn't it be great to be able to see the people we talk to
in rec.equestrian."  Well, I'll probably test this out too when
I get back. So, maybe in the new year I'll be able to extend the
gif availability and we can all get to see what we look like.
Watch rec.equ in early January for an announcement.

Well, in the words of a famous rabbit, that's all folks!



-- 

|  Graham Jenkins          |  graham.jenkins@its.csiro.au           | 
|  CSIRO                   |  (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial | 
|  Canberra,  AUSTRALIA    |  Research Organisation)                |
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kristinr@sco.COM (Kristin Robinson)
Subject: Hay Cubes Anyone?
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:53:37 GMT


((SCO LYRIX 6.1
))

Does anyone out there feed hay cubes?  What is your experience with them,
pluses and minuses?  I am thinking of switching from Alfalfa/Oat hay to
a combination cube and was just wondering what I should look out for.
The horses seem to be wasting a lot of hay this time of year.  It is 
obviously lacking in quality.  I supplement with complete pellets,
bran and some grain.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Kristin Robinson
From: jd@rust.zso.dec.com (John D'Addamio)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: History of Dressage v2.01
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:51:32 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering


Unfortunately, I was interrupted by events here at home and didn't get to
finish my earlier comments. So, I continue:

5. Yes, Xenophon wrote many other books including Anabasis(a military
excursion into Persia, now modern day Iran), "The General of Horse"
and others. It is true that some of them were non-military but they were
about hunting, training hunting dogs and the agrarian life of a country
gentleman. BTW, he was awarded his estate by Sparta, one of the city
states for which he fought. There is nothing in the J.A. Allen translation 
of "The Art of Horsemanship" which suggests that Xenophon ever served
any Greek city as anything other than a military man. That translation 
and the notes that accompany it were prepared by Dr Morris H Morgan, a 
classics professor at Harvard at the time the book was published.

6. According to page 71 of the aforementioned translation, Xenophon
wrote his book on horsemanship to provide guidance for his sons who 
followed him into the cavalry. Xenophon is believed to have belonged to 
the Equestrian class of Athenian society and to have spent his youth (i.e.
the years before joining Cyrus' Army in 401 BC) in the Athenian 
cavalry. According to Dr. Morgan, the Equestrian class was the second 
wealthiest in Athens and its entire cavalry was drawn from this class.

7. I think you mistake Xenophon's meaning when he says that collection
is for parades and not battle. To a military man, such as Xenophon, a
parade consists of marshalling and maneuvering troops for display or
inspection by superior officers(see your dictionary). He certainly 
wasn't refering to the Rose Bowl Parade or anything of the sort! No, he 
was referring to a military event in which one could impress his 
superiors.

8. I still maintain that the argument over whether modern dressage 
originated in royal courts or the military is meaningless. In the 16th-19th 
centuries, the riding skills taught in royal and other maneges were used 
militarily as well as for the aggrandisement of the local nobility.
In plain English, having a riding school stroked the king's ego AND
provided him with officers who could lead a cavalry charge without 
falling off!
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: A Hard Keeper
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:41:41 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Brian Hall (mspace@netcom.com) wrote:
: What do you mean by "makes a horse tie up"?  I think corn oil is what
: we use.
 
From The Older Horse by Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD
(p 125)
 
"...tying up--a condition of severe muscle spasm and muscla breakdown
associated with excercise--is easily confused with urinary tract disease. 
The general attitude and appearance of the horse is identical on
superficial examination, and the urine may be discolored from red to brown
secondary to muscle pigment.  However, urinalysis can easily reveal the
presence of blood versus muscle pigment and may show other abnormalities
associated with urinary tract disease, and close clinical examination
will reveal if the horse has widespread muscle tenderness."


Tying up is also called "Monday morning disease."  It can be brought on
when a horse in steady work is given its full ration on an off day.  
The name comes from the days of the draft horse.  These horses were given
Sunday off, and afflicted horses would come out of their stalls on Monday
mornings lame.  It usually manifests as severe stiffness in the hind end,
hence tying up.  It is also called azoturia (spelling?).

Another cause is selenium deficiency, which is common in some areas of the
country.  If selenium is given as a supplement, vitamin E is also necessary,
but caution should be excercised, as some grain mixtures now contain a
supplement in affected areas, and selenium can be easily overfed with
disastrous results.

also from The Older Horse
(p 52)

"The usual manifestation of this deficiency is 'tying up,' a condition of
spasm and muscular breakdown after excercise.  The horse is reluctant to
walk and obviously in pain, with tense swollen muscles.  He may have red
to brown urine which contains muscle cell pigment--myoglobin.  Death can
even result from damage to the kidneyssecondary to myoglobin, or from
heart dysfunction and alterations in the norman internal chemistry that
may be associated wiht tying up."

There are treatments, but I don't have anything in front of me at the monent,
and won't trust my memory that far at this time of night.

I still want more info on corn oil and tying up, as this is the first I
have ever heard of any connection.

Karen and Sterling