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From: usa-post@AmeriCast.Com
Organization: American Cybercasting
Subject: Sample Moscow News art.213 Sat, Aug 22 1992
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:04:19 EDT

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    DATE(YYYY/MM/DD): 1992/08/19
    TITLE: '... When blood is being shed, tough measures are the most
             humane...'
    BY: Tatyana Mikhalskaya
    SUBJECTS: 31
    SECTION: 14
    
    ***
    
    SUMMARY: An interview with Viktor Aksyuchits, Chairman of the Duma
             (Executive Committee) of the Russian Christian Democratic
             Movement.
    ###
         
                          Viktor AKSYUCHITS
         -------------------------------------------
         Tatyana MIKHALSKAYA
         of 'Moscow  News' talks  to a  people's  deputy  of  the  Russian
    Federation, Chairman of the Duma (Council) of the RCDM
         -------------------------------------------
         '... When  blood is  being shed,  tough  measures  are  the  most
    humane...'
         The Russian  Christian Democratic  Movement (RCDM)  subscribes to
    the ideology of "enlightened patriotism". Mass consciousness, however,
    does not  go deep  into  ideological  subtleties  and  simply  divides
    political players  into "democrats"  and "patriots". Viktor Aksyuchits
    is a  figure prominent  on the  "patriotic" flank,  although  here  he
    enjoys the  reputation of being "very moderate". Perhaps for some this
    sounds like  a compliment,  but only  for  those  who  are  not  "true
    patriots". In their eyes, the Russian People's Assembly (RPA), born of
    the alliance  of Kadets (Constitutional Democrats) and Demochristians,
    looks like  an unreliable  movement, to  put it mildly: in the past --
    discrediting ties  with Democratic  Russia, at present -- estrangement
    from the actions of the Ostankino-confrontation type, in future -- who
    knows...
         The future,  incidentally, is a matter for special consideration.
    Because the  minimum programme  -- "down with the existing regime!" --
    which  its   countdown  must   begin  with,  tends  to  reconcile  all
    differences in  the  opposition  camp.  And  no  matter  how  far  the
    "enlightened" should  try to  keep aloof  from the "less enlightened",
    today they  are marching  side by  side.  But  who  will  forge  ahead
    tomorrow?
         MN: You keep emphasizing that the RCDM and the RPA hold a special
    place in the political spectrum. What does this consist of?
         V.A.: First  and foremost,  it is  the fact that neither the RCDM
    nor the  RPA is  genetically connected  with any  structures inherited
    from the  old regime.  Nearly all  the parties -- Travkin's Rutskoi's,
    the republican,  etc. --  have in  one way or another grown out of the
    CPSU, which  cannot be  said about  us. Secondly,  the RCDM is a party
    more deeply  rooted than  all the others in traditional guidelines and
    ideals. It  has always  advocated the  rebirth of  the  traditions  of
    Russian statehood and has therefore worked and is working for a future
    Russia. The  present regime  has done all it could for the bulk of the
    population to  be impoverished.  This is excellent soil for the spread
    of ultra-right  and ultra-left  ideologies. We,  historians, political
    scientists and  philosophers who  have set  up the RCDM, are trying to
    counter  this   danger  with  the  alternative  of  reviving  national
    statehood.
         MN: And  still, in  what way  do you  differ, for  example,  from
    Sterligov's Russian National Sobor (RNS)?
         V.A.: Again  it's a  genetic difference.  Sterligov is  a  major-
    general of  the KGB  and his  idea of  a sobor  amounts to yet another
    attempt at  parasiting on  patriotic ideals.  What is  there in common
    between sobornost  and his idea about the transfer of power to Soviets
    at  all   levels?  This   is  Bolshevism   pure  and  simple.  As  is,
    incidentally, the  establishment of a Worker Guard. Properly speaking,
    they have  borrowed our  terminology --  Duma, Sobor,  etc --  and are
    using it  to designate  their structures  and  objectives  which  have
    nothing in  common with  traditional statehood. We do not want to have
    anything to  do either  with Anpilov,  who acts  as a  front  for  the
    personnel, finances  and structures  of the  CPSU, or  with  Sterligov
    because this is also neo-Bolshevism under national-patriotic slogans.
         MN:  Nevertheless you have repeatedly said that you are in favour
    of joint  action with  communists. And the Russian Unity parliamentary
    bloc, bringing  "left" and  "right" deputies  together, was  set up on
    your initiative.
         V.A.:  This  is  normal.  Today  communists  also  represent  the
    opposition which  the ruling  regime has  deprived of  the freedom  of
    speech and  the press.  And as a convinced democrat, I shall fight for
    the freedom  of speech  not only  for myself but also for my political
    opponents.
         MN: Honestly,  the opposition's  claims of having been denied the
    freedom of  speech seem  somewhat exaggerated  if  one  remembers  the
    number of  fully  legal  and  mass  opposition  newspapers,  including
    Pravda, Sovetskaya Rossiya, Den, etc. The RCDM, incidentally. also has
    its own newspaper and its own magazine.
         V.A.: The circulation of our newspaper Put is only 20,000 copies.
    It does  not pay  its way and local bodies have made it impossible for
    readers  to  subscribe  to  this  newspaper,  whereas  Rospechat  (the
    official press distribution agency) has refused to circulate it.
         MN:  The  same  problems  confront  all  newspapers.  As  far  as
    circulations  are   concerned,  in   the  past,  as  I  remember,  the
    publications not favoured by the authorities were circulated from hand
    to hand in xeroxed copies. Today, however, they are all sold freely in
    kiosks and underground passages.
         V.A.: You forget that our state wants to become democratic and is
    for the  first time  perhaps in  a position  to  give  a  start  to  a
    multiparty system.  Yeltsin has  even promised  to allot  part of  the
    CPSU's finances  for the  development of  this system.  Where is  this
    money? At best, it has gone to the parties which have grown out of the
    CPSU. We,  however, still have no office of our own, although the RCDM
    is not  a marginal force and is represented in parliament. In the rest
    of the world it is this that serves as a criterion for rendering state
    aid to parties.
         MN: Do you know the number of your followers?
         V.A.:It is  easier to  name the  number of  participants-- 12,000
    persons. But  it is  difficult to judge followers because we live in a
    state of  information block.  In any  democratic  country  state-owned
    television grants  an hour  or two a day to the opposition. It is only
    with great  difficulties, however, that we have been able to secure an
    hour once  a week.  Broad strata  of society are simply unaware of our
    programme.
         MN: The  use of state TV channels by the opposition is at least a
    moot point  if it  doesn't come  to an  election campaign.  But  let's
    return to  your  supporters.  Are  you  sure  that  they  follow  you,
    subscribing to  the ideas  of  Christian  democracy  and  "enlightened
    patriotism"  and   not  merely  the  slogan  of  "down  with  the  bad
    government"?
         V.A.: Your  apprehensions are  not groundless.  Social discontent
    keeps mounting,  and  we  see  our  task  in  not  letting  it  assume
    uncivilized forms.  There is  a need  to intercept the initiative from
    extremist forces.
         MN: You were not very successful in doing this at the Congress of
    Civil and  Patriotic Forces when the Russian People's Assembly was set
    up.
          V.A.:  As I have already said, since we have no genetic roots in
    old structures,  we have  neither  political  personnel  nor  material
    facilities and  finances. And  it is more difficult for us to organize
    an activity  than it is, say, for Travkin or Rutskoi. What happened at
    the Congress?  Democrat Murashev  refused to  provide protection. As a
    result, Pamyat  staged a  provocation and  tried to  throw us from the
    rostrum. We  were compelled  to give the floor to Vasilyev so that his
    supporters would  leave the  hall. I  must say,  however, that at that
    time such  a forum  could not  proceed without  a  certain  breakdown.
    Because that  was the  first attempt at giving vent to the ideological
    doctrine of  reviving national  statehood which  is, in  effect, still
    underground.
         MN:  Today  the  RPA  is  calling  for  the  resignation  of  the
    government and  the President,  whereas the  RCDM  intends  you  as  a
    candidate to  the main  post in  the state.  How do  you visualize the
    process of power being changed?
         V.A.:  The   rebirth  of   Russian  traditions   also  spells   a
    renunciation  of  the  revolutionary,  violent  methods  of  political
    struggle. It  is the Congress that must make the President resign. And
    it is  also up  to the  Congress to form an emergency body for running
    the country  -- like  a national  conciliation government,  a national
    salvation committee  or a  state council  -- for  the period until all
    disputed issues have been decided. Only after this will it be possible
    to hold  general elections  in which I will be prepared to run for the
    presidency.
         MN: But  what if  the Congress  is reluctant to send Yeltsin into
    retirement?
         V.A.: We  shall do  everything in  our power to help it make this
    step. The  situation is  such that a social explosion is inevitable in
    the autumn  or winter. And it is most frightening if it assumes "wild"
    forms. Therefore, we shall initiate mass demonstrations at the Kremlin
    during the  Congress and  try to intercept the initiative. We are in a
    position to wield influence on the strike movement as well.
         MN: That  is, you are already preparing to arouse people for mass
    protests, aren't you? Don't you think that thereby you are provoking a
    social explosion?
         V.A.: No,  we simply  see that this process will start rolling in
    one way  or another.  But if  its leadership  has been  taken over  by
    Anpilov, this will bring about colossal destructions.
         MN: But  Anpilov will,  after all, stand next to you. And so will
    Sterligov. The  "street" will go to topple the government, not drawing
    a line  between the "clean" and the "unclean". But will it support you
    when it comes to the distribution of authority?
         V.A.: This is already Yeltsin's headache -- it is his policy that
    has resulted  in the  ideas of  communist  revenge  being  popular  in
    society. And  we are the only ones who represent a force which has put
    up a  real fight  against those  advocating  the  restoration  of  the
    totalitarian regime. Moreover, the "street" can topple the government,
    but it  doesn't form  it. We  want the Congress to adopt the necessary
    decisions precisely  because there  are  no  extremists  and  revenge-
    seekers at this level of policy.
         MN: How do you intend to act upon coming to power?
         V.A.: Today  I can only speak about the actions of that emergency
    body which must extricate the country from catastrophe. Of course, the
    methods it  will use  will be tough. It will not be able to do without
    imposing an  emergency economic  situation. All  attempts at  revising
    borders will be cut short with legitimate yet strong measures to avoid
    a state when everyone is at war with everyone else. With the republics
    which have  left Russia,  there will  be a  need to  go over  to world
    prices in  trade and  establish borders  and customs houses. For those
    who are  still geared to Russia, it will become necessary to arrive at
    integration first  in the  economy and  culture, and  only then in the
    political field.
         MN: Is  it possible  to speak  about integration while offering a
    tough policy to neighbours?
         V.A.: When  blood is  being shed,  tough measures  are  the  most
    humane ones.  The ring of war is already tightening around Moscow. And
    without a  strong state,  this one-sixth of the globe will fall into a
    black hole.
         MN: The RPA includes representatives from all the Cossack armies.
    These are  people with  weapons in  hand. Aren't you afraid that today
    these weapons  will be  used against  the  existing  authorities,  but
    tomorrow they may be turned against you?
         V.A.: Unless the emergency measures I have spoken about have been
    adopted, these  weapons will definitely be put to use both against the
    government and  in intestine strife. As regards the future, why should
    these weapons be turned against us if we offer an acceptable policy?
         MN: But  still, why  don't you  act hand  in glove with the Civil
    Union with which you have so much in common, but  play dangerous games
    with those  who are  not  particularly  worried  about  whether  their
    actions are civilized?
         V.A.: This  is a  very touchy  question. Of  course, in  a purely
    human way,  it would  be more desirable to have to deal with centrists
    instead of  communists. But,  regrettably,  our  centrists  are  being
    guided not  by the  interests of  national statehood, but by political
    ambitions. Before  the 6th Congress, we came to understand that we had
    to go  into the opposition to the existing regime, but neither Rutskoi
    nor Travkin  supported us.  I remember  Travkin telling  me: "You  are
    using the  government's weaknesses  to score points." Today he himself
    repeats almost  word for  word our  claims about  the regime.  But the
    latter has  already managed  to make  such a  mess that it is becoming
    increasingly difficult  to stop  it. Our centrists, however, refuse to
    accept any dialogue with us.
         MN: In the 1970s, you were a dissident, today too you act against
    the authorities.  What is  it --  a trait  of your  character  or  has
    nothing changed in our world?
         V.A.: I  think it's  a trait of the epoch. I came to politics not
    in order to be a dissident, and I would be glad to serve the President
    if he faithfully served the Motherland. Last August, I defended him at
    the Russian  Federation building.  But it is the second echelon of the
    nomenklatura, undemocratic  and mercenary  as it  is, that has come to
    power under  the flag of democracy. Today it is engaged in the pursuit
    of an  antistate and antinational policy. As an honest person I cannot
    be loyal to it.
                                           MN file
         Viktor Vladimirovich  Aksyuchits was  born  in  1949  in  Western
    Byelorussia. He  graduated from  a nautical  school and  served in the
    Navy. In  1971, he  joined the  CPSU but  quit the  party in  1972 for
    ideological reasons.  Also, at  that time,  he entered the preparatory
    course  of  Moscow  University  and  then  joined  its  department  of
    philosophy.There he  took interest in Christianity. He was admitted to
    the postgraduate  course, from  which he was expelled a year later for
    political motives.  He worked  as a seasonal worker in Siberia and the
    Soviet Far  East. In  the  late  1970s,  he  was  actively  busy  with
    "samizdat". Since  September 1987, he has brought out, along with Gleb
    Anishchenko, a  poet and  literary critic,  the  religious-philosophic
    magazine   Vybor (Choice)  around which  the RCDM  has been formed. In
    1990, he  was elected  a people's deputy of the Russian Federation. He
    is a  member of  the Russian  Federation Supreme Soviet's Committee on
    Religious Liberty,  Creed, Mercy  and Charity; he was nominated to the
    post of  Chairman of  the Supreme Soviet of the Russian Federation. He
    heads  publishing  activities  at  the  PUICO  Russian-American  joint
    venture and has printed works in all European languages.
         
         
         
    ***
    ***
This article is copyright 1992 The Moscow News. Redistribution to
other sites is not permitted except by arrangement with American 
Cybercasting Corporation.  For more information, send-email to 
usa@AmeriCast.COM

This article is copyright 1992 The Moscow News. Redistribution to
other sites is not permitted except by arrangement with American 
Cybercasting Corporation.  For more information, send-email to 
usa@AmeriCast.COM