HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asim@pak.sps.mot.com (Asim Omair)
Subject: Re: Learning Urdu
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:06:25 GMT

In article <25JUL199217384086@vxcrna.cern.ch> mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>In article <111129@muvms3.bitnet>, rcbi110@muvms3.bitnet (R. ALAN MONROE) writes
>> 
>>Salam Alaikum.
>>I am very interested in learning to speak and write Urdu.  I have been teaching
>>myself the language by listening to music (Benjamin Sisters, Vital Signs) and
>>writing what I hear.  What I need is a learning aid, such as a tape/book 
>>package.  Where could I find or order something like this?  None of the book
>>stores in my area offered hope.
>>Chris Brannon
>>rcbi110@muvms3.mu.wvnet.edu
>> 
>>So much style without substance, so much stuff without style.  It's hard to
>>recognize the real thing, it comes along once in a while.  Like a rare and
>>precious metal beneath a ton of rock, it takes some time and trouble to 
>>seperate from the stock.  -- Grand Designs --
>
>	Why the hell you have to learn urdu?
>        Why dont you learn Punjabi?.
>Mirza Ilyas
>
I am quite surprised as well as annoyed by Mirza's posting. If you don't have
any constructive thing to say, then please try not to reply to somebody else's
post.
As regards Alan's inquiry, I am sorry I don't know about any books but I am sure
that you will get some replies. Good luck with learning Urdu.
*****************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:01:23 GMT


I would beg to differ....
A Paksitani did win a medal in wrestling. I remember this guy with a beard
apprearing on talk shows and "Nilaam Gha'r". Year I am not sure about. It was
either 84 or 88.
Pakistan did win medal in sailing. It was a guy a Karachi. I am 97% sure it
was in olympics.

--nasir
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: First Pakistani MD-PhD!
Summary: Khan is playing with words
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:29:15 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.

In article <1992Jul30.093144.30417@davidsys.com>, khan@davidsys.com writes:
>   When you counter my arguments against 
> mad rush for worldly 'scholarship' with
> "Iqra!" from the Quran, you should understand
> that Allah swt is referring to the Quran,
> True Knowledge, not the False Knowledge of
> universities of today, a knowledge based on
> denial of God, and insists on Uncertainty.
>   On one level the Quran is a clear message,
> on the other level it is a key to  many
> other worlds of knowledge. 
>   You can have as many Phd.'s as you want,
> but can you identify your own Shaitaan?
> Can you identify which spirit you may be
> possessed with at any given time during
> the course of any endeavor, whether it
> is from Allah swt , or from a source 180 degrees
> opposite??
>   Status built around worldly pedestals
> is falsehood. 

Khan Bhai:

 I think you are just playing with words. What
is true knowledge and what is false knowledge ?

Knowledge is Knowledge, and is never enough!

We are in the business of acquiring knowledge
of all types, about all things and about all
times. I believe nothing has given me more
pleasure in life than reading, studying and doing 
research. One aspect of Western civilzation that 
I REALLY like is availability of knowledge and
freedom to acquire any type of knowledge that you
want. 

I think a Hadith says that if you have to 
China then dont hesitate. When in that case
Mohd[PBUH] must be mistaken since he is
asking muslims to go to china and seek
false knowledge (since there is no true knowledge
to be found in China at that time).

I dont think you will agree that Mohd[PBUH] misspoke.
The only conclusion remains is:

  Sometimes leaders are more broadminded then their
  followers.

Please carefully consider how Mohd[PBUH] acquired the
false knowledge of doing trade, the reason why he
was selecetd by Khatija[PBUHer] as her main trader.

Back then people had to learn such knowledge by
doing it and by experience. These days, we teach it
in universitiues to compress the time needed to acquire
the same amount of knowledge.

Mohd[PBUH] time and again taught that religion and
world affairs must go together. This is one of the most
modern aspects of Islam that you have chosen to ignore.

How can you learn worldly affairs ? by reading Quran !
I dont think so!

The only way to get wordly knowledge is to acquire it
by doing it (apprentice-ship) or studying it (scholarship).
By calling this knowledge, FALSE KNOWLEDGE you are rejecting
the words of your own prophet.

regards,

-Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Ridiculous Health Insurance Policy [part 1]
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:48:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.150838.24527@oakhill.sps.mot.com> fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq M. Butt) writes:

>medical insurance is a nightmare.  Most foreign students come from 
>relatively saner countries where, if they got terribly sick, _someone_
                                                               ^^^^^^^^ 
>would pick up the tab and they would get medical attention. Not so in 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's not very accurate.  You end up either going to
quacks or not being able to afford the specialists who can
diagnose you correctly.

You are right that medical insurance is expensive here, but please
make a distinction between medical practitioners, insurance
companies on  the one hand and the US in general on the other.
Let's not make this another opportunity for "this place stinks!"
If we all choose to go to school here, then we make the conscious
choice to bear the expenses.  If we can't afford it then we go
somewhere else (Australia, Germany) with no tuition.  What is the
point in asserting that the insurance companies or universities 
SHOULD provide affordable med insurance to foreign students
(because their exchange rates suck?)  If we comprise a large enough
pool of clients some enterprising insurance company will cater
to us with reasonable rates.  Nobody wants to lose money.

One of my friends had his father operated on for heart bypass 
surgery and didn't pay a cent.  He pleaded that he didn't
have the money being a foreign student.  Incidents like this
show up in the actuarial tables so insurance companies obviously
will not touch foreign students separately (that too with
lower premiums) if they are perceived as high risk.

Usman
 
>exists.  On the other hand, it does seem incumbent on the University 
>to provide _some_ kind of affordable insurance.
From: ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: national language
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:02:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Jul21.100202.15065
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

>From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
>Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
>
>>The point is that Urdu, while not being the mother tongue of the majority
>>in Pakistan, is clearly the most widely understood .. I have only come
>>across one Pakistani in my life who could not understand or talk in Urdu!
>
>>But there is another important factor why Urdu is the natural national
>>language of Pakistan, and that is its Muslim connections. It was the language
							    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>of the Mughul courts and has become associated with Muslim India. This 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>ofcourse is not strictly true since any Hindu/Sikh etc. living in the 'Urdu-
>>belt' doubtless speaks Urdu as well as any Muslim. Neverthesless, Urdu does
>>carry with it this feeling of being a 'Muslim' entity and it is for this
>>reason, I am sure, that it was adopted as the national language. So much of
>>history and culture of North India is contained in Urdu verse and prose that
>>I think it would be a shame for Pakistan to drop it as a national language.

	NOT!!
	Faarsee was the language of the Mughal courts, Urdu was perpetuated 
	and supported by Firangis to try to take muslims away from their
	ruling past.

	You should have paid more attention in those urdu classes ;-)

						--ali.
>
>>Nadeem Malik
>

	

-- 
**********************************************************************
* Ali Hasan			Computer Aided Engineering	     *
* ahasan@cae.wisc.edu		UW-Madison.			     *
**********************************************************************
From: waseems@sco.COM (Waseem Siddiqi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Learning Urdu
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:04:14 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <25JUL199217384086@vxcrna.cern.ch> mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>In article <111129@muvms3.bitnet>, rcbi110@muvms3.bitnet (R. ALAN MONROE) writes...
>> 
>>Salam Alaikum.
>> 
>>I am very interested in learning to speak and write Urdu.  I have been teaching
>>myself the language by listening to music (Benjamin Sisters, Vital Signs) and
>>writing what I hear.  What I need is a learning aid, such as a tape/book 
>>package.  Where could I find or order something like this?  None of the book
>>stores in my area offered hope.
>> 
>>Chris Brannon
>> 
>>rcbi110@muvms3.mu.wvnet.edu
>> 
>>So much style without substance, so much stuff without style.  It's hard to
>>recognize the real thing, it comes along once in a while.  Like a rare and
>>precious metal beneath a ton of rock, it takes some time and trouble to 
>>seperate from the stock.  -- Grand Designs --
>
>	Why the hell you have to learn urdu?
>        Why dont you learn Punjabi?.
>
>Mirza Ilyas

Janaab Mirza saheb,

Let's not show our bigotry. It's surprising how people  like you 
get to work in places like CERN. I would have thought you would have
learnt something about being tolerant etc etc. Instead of telling other
people what to learn, I'd like to suggest you start taking English
courses as your two lines above classify you as a 
grammatically-challenged person.

regards
waseem


-- 
Waseem A. Siddiqi                                 Tel:    (416) 922 1937 
SCO Canada                                        email: waseems@sco.com 
Toronto, Canada                                        uunet!sco!waseems
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: purdue.forsale,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.india
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: volvo - vital organs - farrukh zafar
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:17:45 GMT

Farrukh Zafar forgets to mention himself and his artful display of driving
on our recent trip to LA. Though i agree Jehangir Hashmi had his eyes wide
open surveying the streets of LA but Farrukh Zafar was also checking out 
the action behind his pseudo "burger family" image.

sahibzada rafay khan[]

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: u9066624@cc.uow.edu.au (Tippu Hassan)
Subject: iraq/pak
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 08:02:28 GMT

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL DIDNT HAVE TO CON THE 
US OF A.

SADDAM  WAS AND STILL IS A MOLE PLANTED BY CIA .
HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MASSACRE OF MILLIONS ( IRAN IRAQ WAR ) AND SIX 
MONTHS LATER WAS IN KUAIT.
THIS SERVED CIA JUST FINE AS NOW THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE DIVIDED AS NEVER 
BEFORE AND UNCLE SAM IS IN THE REGION IN A BIGGGGG WAY.

							TIPPU BADSHAH

	--- think the way ypur enemy does to succeed ------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: fatwa for today
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 06:24:22 GMT

	after the tensions in peshawar.
	all religious tension between shia's and sunni's must cease.
	therefore i ask my followers and brothers and bhabi's

		all sunni men should marry shia women
		and all shia women should marry sunni men.
								17:6:92

sahibzada rafay khan[the world for a .........]
From: cyrus@athena.mit.edu (Die Die Yankee Dog!)
Subject: A trip in Pakistan.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:21:28 GMT


Hello soc.culture.pakistan. My name is Cyrus Shaoul, and I am a senior
in Brain and Cognitive Science at MIT. I have always dreamed of
traveling the Silk Road, and this summer my dreams are coming to
fruition.

This Sunday, my brother Josef ('87 MIT EECS) and I will fly to Islamabad
where we will meet Saeed Jaffar. After getting our chinese visas, we
will travel to Gilgit. There we unpack our bikes, and after a few days
of warmup, we will leave Saeed to return to Karachi as we start our
Mountain Bike north on the Karakoram Highway. I hope that this form of
travel will be better than taking jeeps or cars. We hope to stay in
villages and meet the people of the Hunza. We will work our way up to
the Khunjerab pass, and from there we bike down to the city of Kashgar.
We then turn around and bike back to Gilgit. We plan on spending 5 weeks
in Pakistan, 2 weeks of which will actually be in China. 

The reason I am posting is to ask if anybody has been to the Hunza, and
if so, if they could tell me anything about the region. Please send mail
to me DIRECTLY, as I may not have time to read news between now and Aug. 3rd.

Thank you in advance,

----------------------------------------------
Cyrus H. Shaoul           cyrus@athena.mit.edu
3 Ames St. Cambridge MA 02139     617-225-6449
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: RE:NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:10:17 GMT

------------------
Article 25953 (25 more) in soc.culture.pakistan:
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Subject: Re languages of pakistan
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:13:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

>Just for the record: Urdu means army in Turkish (it's oldest influence is from
>the Turkic tribes who entered through Afghanistan from Central Asia).
>Thabhee kaihthay hain kay Urdu lashkaree zaban hay, which evolved to its
>high litereary status it enjoys today!

I am wondering if the incompatibility of the lashkaree zaban with the
speakers of proto-dravidian langauges[brahvi] and other languages of
coastal Sindh[Thari] and Baluchistan is a contributing factor to this
lack of knowledge of Urdu among the natives of the region I mentioned.
Also, you would find more Persian poets in Sindh [during the time when
the Mughal empire had collapsed] than Urdu poets.

Naveed
------------------

Well, I wouldn't be surprised at the incompatibility of the two types of
languages being a factor to the lack of knowledge of Urdu.  However, the
proto-Dravidian languages are not nearly as common as the main provincial
languages(Sindhi, Baluchi, Pushto, Punjabi) which in themselves have become
almost like a mixture of the local indigenous languages and the foreign 
influence of Persian/Arabic/Turkish.  

Omar
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: First Pakistani MD-PhD!
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:31:44 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

  When you counter my arguments against 
mad rush for worldly 'scholarship' with
"Iqra!" from the Quran, you should understand
that Allah swt is referring to the Quran,
True Knowledge, not the False Knowledge of
universities of today, a knowledge based on
denial of God, and insists on Uncertainty.
  On one level the Quran is a clear message,
on the other level it is a key to  many
other worlds of knowledge. 
  You can have as many Phd.'s as you want,
but can you identify your own Shaitaan?
Can you identify which spirit you may be
possessed with at any given time during
the course of any endeavor, whether it
is from Allah swt , or from a source 180 degrees
opposite??
  Status built around worldly pedestals
is falsehood. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Karachi and Sind 
Keywords: Pakistan,capital
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:44:19 GMT

In article <N1R-AP-@engin.umich.edu> chaudhry@schroedinger.engin.umich.edu (Iblees) writes:

>While ascertaining the facts about Pakistan's history, I feel it is imperative 
>that we should not allow the past to bury our future.  Neither do I feel that as 
>a country, our future course should be *hostage* to the actions and aspirations 
>of the generation which founded Pakistan. While making decisions Pakistan's 
>history should be kept in perspective, to fully comprehend the situation or to 
>learn from history ( and, thus the need to know more about our country's 
>history). But present day decisions have to be made in accordance with the 
>*present* aspirations of the *present day* citizens of Pakistan ( this, of 
>course, includes many people from the generation which founded Pakistan).

A powerful and simple point which is often overlooked.  
Eloquently put, Nauman!

Usman

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:46:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.181341.27875@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>
>Last olympics, a Pakistani won a medal in boxing, did he make it this
>time? If not, does any body know why?
>Also what other events Pakistan is competing in besides field hockey?
>There was another Pakistani who won a medal in wrestling in last olympics,
>did he make it this time?
>
>--nasir
>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca


Pakistan is participating in: 

- Hockey
- Boxing
- Wrestling
- Yachting
- and Track & Field

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Keywords: In article <1992Jul22.221955.18403@leland.Stanford.EDU>, arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
Reply-To: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:52:32 CDT


|> 
|> 
|> why arabic, just because we are muslims, what utter rot. Lets just have punjabi
|> as the national language as a large number of pakistani's speak it already.
|> Arabic, if we learn arabic we might turn out to be like arabs, god forbid.
|> 
|> sahibzada rafay khan[]
|> 

I would prefer the national language to be such that no ethnic group has an
advantage.  This rules out languages like sindhi, pushto, punjabi, urdu, baluchi
etc.  The choices left include english, arabic and pursian.  Personally I
would prefer Arabic.  The reason does have to do with Islam and Quran.
I hope I do not have to explain why I do not vote for english as my national
language.  Between persian and arabic I find arabic to be a more pragmatic choice
as well due to being the national language for a large number of people.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:12800 soc.culture.arabic:2873 soc.culture.iranian:6436
From: khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: ISLAM ON ABORTION
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:23:29 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Biology Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

The Holy Quran says WALAA TAQTULOO AULAADAKUM MIN KHASHIATA IMLAAK, 
NARZUQUHUM ...
meaning do not kill your progeny for fear of poverty, We provide for them...

A while ago, this issue was discussed among different scholars in Pakistan
as part of a discussion forum held by "Jang".  Some of the panel members
were religious scholars.  I don't have the details of the discussion here,
but the bottom line was that while medical experts stressed from the point
of view of medicine, that abortion should be allowed under certain
circumstances, such as disease, the religious scholars considered abortion
a prohibited act.  They recognised the importance of birth control, though.
The medical experts were happy over this, as prior to that, it was taken
for granted that a maulvi would always say that any form of birth control
should not be allowed.  In the future (hopefully the near future), a
consensus may build in favor of abortion (under certain conditions).

My personal view in the light of the above verse is that abortion should not
be made a sport (and God, it's not one at all), but should be used in cases
like predicted serious malformation or hereditary disease of the would-be
child, or cases like rape.  Since Islam does not condone any form of 
pre-marital sex, the issue of conceptions of this sort should not arise.
I mean that pregnancy of the unwed should not be a common problem in the
Muslim World.

People strongly against any abortion may find these questions puzzling:

1	What if your (whoever's) sister were raped and the world knew about
	it -- would you like her to continue the pregnancy?

2	What your "child" is known by tests to be seriously malformed: such as
	serious chromosomal abnormalities leading to bodily malformation?

3	Imagine your own wife to have been raped -- would you raise the
	rapist's kid as a foster father?
etc.

Regards,
Rasheed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: Logic of Innocence
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:39:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.232847.9250@seas.gwu.edu> durrani@seas.gwu.edu (DaaQoo) writes:
>
>
>	These are true jokes. Cannot be translated. Sorry for those
>	who cannot follow:
>
>	Happened in school years:
>
>	i:
>
>	Teacher: Complete the couplet @
>	Hazaaro'N saal narguis apni bay noori pay roti ha
>
>	Student: PhHir mar jaati ha
>
>	ii:
>
>	Teacher: What is meant by "daal mei'N kuchH kaala hona"
>	student: makhHi

iii:    Teacher: There are 3 types of bonds, an Ionic Bond, a Covalent
	Bond, and a Coordinate covalent Bond ...
        student adds: and the 4th type is James Bond!

        (later student was punished for saying so... a true story)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Hindu minister in Pakistan Govt.
From: mghayalo@uceng.UC.EDU (Manoj Ghayalod)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:53:27 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Jul26.225337.19899@cc.uow.edu.au> g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh) writes:
It's refreshing to know that seats are reserved for hindus in the goverenment
maybe hindus are not mistreated in Pakistan. On SCP I have been reading
that Ahmadis are not allowed to hold any government posts, is that
true?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan