From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Blowing up Those Stubborn stains
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 18:50:15 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1992Nov18.181903.19340@news.nd.edu> (rec.crafts.brewing), ulick@bernini.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
) In article <Bxx8n0.9E9@wrs.com> miked@wrs.com (Mike Deliman) writes:
) >In article <1992Nov17.173608.29363@advtech.uswest.com> mgooley@advtech.uswest.com (Mark. Gooley) writes:
) >>If you're using nitric acid to remove carboy stains, be sure not to add
) >>organic solvents to it: nitric is a powerful oxidizer and some such
) >>blends have been used as rocket fuels, if memory serves.

There's hardly anything nitric acid, possibly mixed with sulfuric
or hydrochloric acid, won't dissolve.  A typical use would be a .1 to 1M 
solution for cleaning glassware.  Those tough-to-dissolve metallic
spots just go right into solution given a little time.  Your carboy
won't need this, though, unless for some reason it has accumulated
some weird metallic stains on it.  In any event, you can try sulfuric
or hydrochloric beforehand -- diluted to about .1 molar.  (You will
find nitric acid hard to come by, and expensive when you get it.)
Of course, the usual precautions about diluting acids apply (add 
conc. acid to water, SLOWLY, while stirring and monitoring the
temperature).

A slightly safer cleaning agent that works wonders on proteins and
other organic deposits is lye (caustic soda, sodium hydroxide).  Add
a teaspoon or two or three to a quart of water -- slowly, while
stirring.  Don rubber gloves and administer the solution to the offending
areas.  Rinse thoroughly when done.

) >I'd reccomend against using *strong* nitric. It's commonly used to make
) >things which go "boom". Rocket fuels? Well... someone on rec.pyrotechnics
) >(aka "rec.bombmaking")  says "Use a remote controlled device to dump

Rocket fuels?  Not really.  You want something like ammonium perchlorate
for that.  :-)  Actually, in the good old days, red fuming nitric
acid was used as an oxidizer.  (HNO3 saturated with nitrogen tetroxide,
I think.)  Frankly, you're a lot safer sitting on a stack of dynamite.  
At least a good whiff of the dynamite won't kill you.  I recall hearing
stories about engineers chased across the desert by rolling clouds of
RFNA that had leaked from storage or propellant tanks.

) >Strong nitric will nitrate organics, creating such things as
) >nitrocelulose, etc. Most nitrated organics will deflagrate without much
) >encouragment. Some will just plain detonate.
) >
) >Just my $.02, what it's worth. Milage may vary.

It's difficult to make the ones that just plain detonate.  They tend
to start burning in your face while you're trying to make them.

) In order to make exposives such as nitroglyclerine or nitrocellulose a
) mixture of concentrated nitric and sulfuric acid is needed, the majority
) sulphuric.  This is because nitric cannot attack most organics itself
) and must attack a group already sulphonated??.  

The sulfuric acid absorbs the water produced during the nitration
reaction.  The reacted acid is typically replenished by adding a mixture
of nitric and fuming sulfuric acid (H2SO4 saturated with SO3).

) A mixture of nitric acid and ethanol is excellent for removing srubborn stains
) from glassware.  However, I continue to recomment against the use of nitric 
) acid with brewing because it is an oxidiser that will chew up your fingers,
) and shouldn't be necessary.
) 
) (anarchy lesson for today - manufacture of nitroglycerine.  Mix 70/30 sulphuric
) nitric conc.  Fill bathtub with ice.  Put acid in beaker in bath with 
) thermometer.  Drip glycerine in and stir well after each addition.  Note 
) temp.  Continue dripping and stirring, but never exceed 10C.  Nitroglycerine
) will form as a yellow oil on top.  NG is extremely unstable so avoid any 
) temperature changes or shock.  However for reliable detonation a detonator
) should be used).

Simpler and less dangerous demo:

Mix about 2 parts conc. sulfuric acid w/ 1 part strong nitric acid.
Hopefully it is not necessary to urge you folks to handle the resulting
mixture with care.  It will, for example, dissolve rubber stoppers.
Anyway, put some cotton puffs into a small beaker set into an ice 
bath.  Add the acid mixture.  Stir and squish until the cotton 
starts to feel more like flimsy steel wool than cotton.  Remove
the cotton.  Dip it in cold water, swish, and then rinse it for 10-15 
minutes in a gentle flow of water.  (Adding a pinch of baking soda is 
optional.)

Air-dry the resulting stuff, which still looks more or less like cotton.
Take a match-head sized piece in a pair of long tweezers and hold next
to an open flame.  Voila!  Guncotton!  (Nitrocellulose.)

If you're feeling industrious, take the guncotton and add it to a
mixture of 2 parts ether and 1 part ethanol.  Stir.  The guncotton
"dissolves," forming a colloid that looks kind of like cloudy K-Y
jelly.  Use your imagination to come up with a way to dry it into
sheets, macaroni and/or grains.  (Just don't do it in a building 
frequented by smokers you are fond of.)  Voila!  Smokeless powder!

That's all for today, folks....

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing