From: grx0751@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
Subject: Re: The top Actors..
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:56:12 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <11846@tamsun.tamu.edu>, vnk5651@tamsun.tamu.edu (gopal kondagunta) 
writes:
> In article <1992Apr4.194535.6847@uoft02.utoledo.edu> grx0751@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <11832@tamsun.tamu.edu>, vnk5651@tamsun.tamu.edu (gopal kondagunta) 
>>writes:
>>>    Excuse me what exactly do you mean by 'capability in commercial films'-is 
>>> the ability to prance around trees with heroines like fools or roll on 
>>> mountain
>>> slopes like 'Junglees' .Do you think that doing this sort of things makes them
>>> the 'best' actors.
>>
>>	Do try to read what you are replying to before you reply and jump to
>>	conclusions; does you a lot of good I say. I did say that 'no prejudice
>>	intended' didn't I? In my mind, I have a dichotomy of actors, wherein 
>>	I would put people like Naseeruddin Shah and Om Puri and Nana Patekar
>>	in a class of 'art' actors - in no way that means I can't appreciate
>>	their style of acting. In fact I respect them so much for their near
>>	perfection of the 'acting' and who can forget Ompuri in "Tamas"? But
>>	how can you compare oranges and bananas? I guess I am guilty of 
>>	not spelling out everything in explicit. But if you did not get it,
>>	there is a polite way of disagreeing. Try it next time; even if it 
>>	does not win you friends, it will not alienate anybody.
>>
>>>  Associating 'calibre' with actors like Shammi Kapoor,Dev Anand and Dharmendra
>>> is a joke.Or is it what you think acting is all about.The fact that you can't
>>> think of other actors is only an indication of your poor knowlegdge of Hindi
>>> films and artistes.Have you at anytime heard of names like Balraj Sahni,
>>> ChandraMohan or Motilal.
>>>    I hope this discussion will not be continued on this newsgroup which I feel
>>> is best left to dicussions on music.
>>>   Please direct any followups to sci.
>>
>>	Have you seen "Guide"? May be you have point in criticising Dharmendra
>>	and Shammi Kapoor, but remember, they carried a whole lot of films
>>	based on their name alone. Even when their days are over, their films
>>	remain. Try to go and see a theatre where "Junglee" is re-released
>>	after 20 years and count the crowd if you can. Not for nothing I ranked
>>	them in the top 10.
>>
>>	And I confess I haven't heard the names of Chandra Mohan or Motilal;
>>	Balraj Sahni I have seen but two movies of his and afraid I can't
>>	comment on him. Just because you are aware of some obscure faces of
>>	Hindi filmdom and I am not does in no way justify your saying that
>>	it reflects my poor grasp of Hindi films. IMO, you owe me an apology.
>>
>>	But I think this discussion does belong here; films, actors, actresses
>>	and filmi music are so interlinked that one cannot isolate one from 
>>	the other. It is no use trying to set up another group too, inevitably
>>	the connections between music and acting props up in either group. I
>>	thought when this question came up before, it is more or less settled
>>	that quite a lot wanted to discuss movies on this forum and others
>>	who didn't are prepared to bear with us even as a 'nuisance value'.
>>
>>	Siva Prasad.			(grx0751@uoft02.utoledo.edu)
>>	                           
>   I am sorry if I have offended you by my posting.I stick to my points and will
> try to explain why i say so.Since you want to continue this thread here i will
> post it here unless someone objects.I have read your previous posting completely
> befor replying to it.
> 
>              Firstly the point about classifying actors acting ability according
> to the type of film is IMO stupid.You can say that one actor is more 'saleable star'
> than another but not a better actor.I   frankly  do not like the classification
> of films into 'art' and 'commercial'.Film making with its various branches itself
> can and should in my opinion be considered as an art.It is the theme of the movie
> which separates them.And the treatment of the story or the theme shows the class
> of the movie.
>    Regarding 'Guide' I have seen it twice and also movies of Dev Anand from the 
> stage in the late 1940's where he was partially trying to imitate Gregory Peck
> through films like Taxi Driver,Sharaabi,KalaPani to Swami Dadain the 1980's and
> I say he does not deserve to be in the top ten.The fact that he was one of the 
> top three heroes in the 50's and early 60's does not say that he was an actor
> of the top calibre.It is because of the music in his films and other factors 
> which go into the making of an Indian film which made them successful rather
> than any brilliance in his acting.People swooned over his looks and maanerisms
> (that eternal inclination of his face whatever be the emotion that has to be
> shown) and not by any great acting talent.Same with Rajesh Khanna.Just because
> he had a large fan following and a 'superstar' status does not in any way make
> him a 'brilliant' actor.His acting can be said to be good in films like Amar Prem
> or Anand etc.I have enjoyed seeing quite a lot of their films but that does not
> mean I think of them of superb actors.    
>      I feel it as an insult to these artistes to rank actors like Rajesh Khanna
> or Shammi Kapoor or as someone else did Jeetendra above them.Shammi Kapoor 
> struggled as a hero acting against Suraiya and Geeta Bali before Shashadar Mukherjee
> gave him a distinct mannerisms and the clownish sort of acting in the film
> 'Tumsa Nahin Dekha' after which he did mostly stereotype roles in Kashmir ki Kali
> Professor,Junglee,Brahmachari etc.By stereotype I mean the same sort of mannerisms
> etc.How then can you claim him to be top notch actor.
> 
>  Your own admission that you have not heard names of actors like Chandra Mohan or
> Motilal and have seen just two movies of Balraj Sahni justifies my claim that you 
> have poor knowledge of Hindi film actors.If you question my claim I can also 
> question your selection based on the knowledge of a few actors and claiming that
> they are the best in the field.It was just like Mr K.P.Singh's article in the 
> discussion on non-Hindi actors and singers wherein he said that he had heard 
> SPB and S.Janaki and claimed them to the best ever singers of the south.I doubt 
> if he has heard singers of the 50's and 60's in the south but just chipped in
> with his claim.I do not want to start any discussion on that but pointed out
> that in order to make clear my point that when one does not know enough of the
> subject please do not make definitive claims.Without knowing the actors of the
> earlier generation you sought to make a sweeping generalization which I objected to.
>            
>        To draw a parallel suppose some one who has been watching movies made
> after say only 1985 concludes that the music composers Nadeem-Shravan or
> Anand-Milind  are the best music composers then people who have heard film
> music from the earlier times to the recent are in a good position to
> comment/criticize such a kind of judgement.


	I do agree with most of your points; but I have still some problems. 
	You may not like to see a actors being classified into two distinct 
	classes as 'art' and 'commercial'; I have no problems with this 
	concept per se. But there is a lot of difference in saying " I
	disagree with you on this point because of ...." and "Your opinion
	on ... is stupid" - the second way is how you chose to repond to my
	statement.

	I do not intend to be apologetic, but I did not have enough chances to
	watch that many old movies to know the names of yesteryear actors. 
	Madras city has very few theatres which play Hindi movies and it is
	even more rare to see them play old ones. While in Hyderabad before I
	came to Madras, it was only on occasion that we went to movies. But
	yet, I do consider my grasp of Hindi movies substantial; I have seen 
	most Hindi movies released after 1960 which are worth mentioning, and
	that is nearly 30 years time frame. Which is why I still object to
	your saying that my grasp of Hindi movies is 'poor'. This hardly
	compares with the example you gave at the end. 30 years is the same
	as 5?? May be you were more fortunate to be able to see movies of
	an earlier era.
	
	I want to end this thread here; you will not see anymore followups
	on this subject from me. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc