HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: World or national series?  (was: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1)
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:06:05 GMT

> lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577) writes:
>> And remember, F1 is a world sport and this is a world net. 

cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
> Wrong, F1 is a European sport.  I get sick of Europeans who try to claim
> that Europe = the entire world except for the U.S.  (Yes, they run a few
> races outside of Europe, but then again, CART runs races outside of the
> U.S., and the F1 fans persist in telling us that CART is still just
> a "national" series in spite of this.)

Let's examine this calmly, now.

1. * IndyCar has 12 races in the US, and two within a 100-mile radius of
     the US border on the Canadian side.  It also has a race in Australia.

   * Formula 1 has races in 11 European countries (OK, so we'll say 10
     races in the EC, plus one in close by in Hungary, almost as close
     as Canada).  There are also races in Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Japan
     and Australia.

2. * IndyCar has mostly American drivers, with a growing overseas contin-
     gent.  Of the top 10 drivers, eight are American, one Brazilian and
     one Canadian.
    
   * Formula 1 has a variety of drivers, with a large Italian contingent.
     Of the top 10 drivers, seven are from EC countries (Britain, Italy and
     France), with others from Brazil, Austria and Finland.

3. * IndyCar teams are based exclusively in the US.  With the exception of
     the occasional Judd motor, engines are from US "manufacturers".

   * Formula 1 teams are based in England, France and Italy (with a Japan-
     based team due to enter for '93).  Engines come from suppliers in
     France, England, Italy and Japan.

4. * IndyCar races are broadcast throughout the US on cable TV.  Audiences
     are respectable, but nowehere near the popularity of, say, NASCAR.
     Some races are broadcast (tape-delayed) to some other countries.

   * Formula 1 races are broadcast live or tape-delayed to over 50 count-
     ries.  The size of the audience for a typical F1 race exceeds that
     for any other sporting event other than World Cup or the Olympics.
     Fan following for Formula 1 far exceeds that of CART in most countries
     (with the notable exception of the US, and *maybe* Canada).

So do you still think IndyCar is as much of a world series as Formula 1?

[ Please note: this is not meant to put down IndyCar's racing, the cars or  ]
[ the drivers, but to simply remind that it *is* mainly a national champion- ]
[ ship, not a world championship.                                            ]

(I might as well put on the Nomex anyway...  :)

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: gbrown@alsvid.une.EDU.AU (Guy Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: please work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:24:43 GMT
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.

this is a test.
-- 
GUY BROWN  Phone: (066) 866 370.          | For the first time in his life
Internet:  gbrown@alsvid.une.edu.au       | Harry was content............. 
University of New England Northern Rivers | But then he spontaneously combusted 
(Lismore) NSW Australia                   |
Xref: sparky rec.autos.sport:9544 soc.culture.australian:4137
From: bradley@reed.edu (Ben Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Toohey's 1000/Bathurst Touring Cars
Keywords: Mt. Panorama, Ford, Holden, Yobbo
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:39:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep4.053957.8697
Organization: Reed College, Portland OR

Dear Friends in Australia:

I am looking forward to a month-long visit to Australia in
October.  The airline tickets are purchased, I think I'll have a 
passport (?!), and I'm starting to make some plans.

Being the avid motorsports enthusiast that I am I have been
hoping to attend some events while on my trip.  Scheduling
conflicts prevent me from attending the Rally of Australia
or the Adelaide F1 race (thanks again for your help Brenton),
but it looks like I will be able to attend the (self-perceived)
second jewel of the triple crown; the Toohey's 1000 touring car
race at Bathurst.

Thus, this is my humble plea for assistance.  I need to get some
sort of idea of what I'm getting myself into, ie how to get from
Sydney to Bathurst, what's involved in obtaining tickets, and where
abouts on Mt. Panorama does one camp?  I'm fairly clueless about
this (and many other things :) ) and would appreciate any help that
is offered.

Cheers!
Ben
bradley@reed.edu

-- 
Ben Bradley                                 Rally Drivers Do It Sideways!!
Reed College
Portland, OR                                RIP CITY!!!
bradley@reed.edu                            Wait Until Next Year
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:25:37 EDT
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Alesi VS Schumacher

Are these 2 drivers of equal talent? I think so. I think Schumacher is very
good, but I think Alesi is equally as good if not better.
I just remember Alesi racing for 2 teams. He had an outstanding season for
Tyrrell. A season good enough to land a ride with Ferrari and to become one
of the highest paid atheletes. With Ferrari he has done well considering the
state of Ferrari in F1. Schumacher on the other hand started out with Jordon.
I think by the time he joined Jordon, they had scored some points. Everyone
was talking about Eddie Jordons team. That same season Schumacher hooks in
to Benetton. A team that is now one of the top 3 F1 teams. Not many people
move to a top rank team after only a few races.
I bring this up because Berger has #1 status at Ferrari, while Schumacher
has the same at Benetton. I think Alesi should share the same status as Berger.
He has done very well considering the car. Ferrari should have taken Patrese.
He has a great attitude.

These are just my opinions. My employer knows nothing about this.

Jonathan Swaby
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Two +/- zero
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:23:16 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <Sep01.203009.86017@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
hg798502@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Hugh Graham) writes:
|>
|>In article <thos.715310287@suite.sw.oz.au>
|>thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
|>>True. Is it illegal for teams to run more than 2 cars? 
|>
|>YES.  This year and for many years past.  I wonder when this started.  Didn't
|>there used to be several Mercedes and suchlike in days of yore?

I only have volumes 1 and 2 of "Grand Prix", covering 1950-1973.  During that
period, there were no restrictions on how many cars a team could field and
also no restrictions on how many teams a constructor could supply with cars.
It was fairly common practice for some of the larger teams to enter extra cars
for renowned local drivers for one race only.  Also, during this period there
were F1 races that were not part of the Championship, and it was fairly
commonplace for F1 championship drivers to participate in other racing events
during the F1 season (Le Mans is about the only time that happens today).

--PSW
From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:03:11 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group

In article <183340@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
|> [stuff deleted]
|> 
|> As far as the Al Jr/Fittipaldi incident, this was much closer to a racing
|> incident.  Jr had a chance, but Fittipaldi closed the door.  I'm not blaming
|> Fittipaldi, but I don't agree with his comments about Jr later.

	Eh?  What comments?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
									|
David M. Hagood			Martin Marietta Astronautics Group	|
									|
Voice:  (303) 977-9657		When in danger, or in doubt,		|
E-mail: hagood@den.mmc.com	Run in circles, scream and shout.	|
Fax: (303) 977-1530							|
									|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     static char *disclaimer = "My opinions, not Martin Marietta's."    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: db_admin@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal Comment
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:55:35 EST
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug31.143100.25943@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.134257.29271@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mini11@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.kearney) writes:
>>
>>What was with Rahal yesterday after his accident? The way I saw it was
>>Stefan Johannson and Bobby were racing. To say Stefan shouldn't try and
>>race to win because he's doesn't have any championship points is absurd!
>>Given the course limitations for passing areas I'm assuming Stefan thought
>>he could get by Bobby. I know Tony B. doesn't spend his money to just
>>finish each race. Every team is there to win!
>>
> 
> In today's Toronto Star, it has Johannson's reply saying that Rahal
> missed a gear shift, which was the reason he attempted a pass.
> 
> If Rahal didn't like the fact that Johannson was too close on his
> tail, he just should have let him by or run harder.  The argument that
> "I'm in a championship fight so noone should try to pass me" seems a
> bit lame.
> 
> It seemed to me that Rahal was running conservatively, conserving fuel
> and waiting for a yellow to bring Michael back to him, while running
> hard enough just to block Johansson....and he got caught.
> 
> Gerald


Translation:  

    RAHAL:  WA WA WA WA...

    Johannson:  Since when is PROFFESSIONAL racing just for fun?

    RAHAL:  WA WA WA WA...

						Michael
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Goodyear
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:15:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bu0IL9.606
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

rbanksjr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Richard E. Banks Jr.) writes:


>With other tire companies talking about entering F1 next year, and the
>narrowing of tires, could Goodyear be thinking about bringing back
>qualifying tires?

    No. Actually, no other tire company will enter F1 in 1993. Bridgestone
is contemplating a 1994 entry, as is Michelin. Based on this, I would say
that "quallies" will be absent for about one more year.

Regards,
Cory
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:13:56 GMT

jmb3+@andrew.cmu.edu (Juan Jose Mata) writes:

>> If he hadn't crashed to steal the Championship title Prost might have had a
>>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> higher opinion of him. As it is Senna has made his bed and must lie in it.


>Senna only did what Prost had done to him the year before under the same
>circumstances. Only he was a little less cynical and agreed on doing so
>... 
>If in the year's before Suzuka chicane incident you just take Senna's
>McLaren out of the road we can clearly see how Prost would have put his
>right hand fron wheel out of the track, something a race driver is very
>unlikely to do when taking a turn ...

>Sorry if I bring up some flame that you guys discussed long ago!

>Hope Senna has the courage to get into Benetton's barnard design and
>with the help of the upcoming Ford V12 gives us more F1 races to
>cherish. I beleive it would be childish of him to quit if he doesn't
>have the best car ... (that beign the only reason it would be very
>unpopular to me), but iof he just wants to play around with the F1 world
>and his fans he might loose some of them (and I am one of the big ones).
	What do you mean by Benetton's barnard design? John Barnard left
Benetton after the '91 season, went to Toyota, and now is with Ferrari
again!! He had no influence on the Benetton B192. The chances of Senna
going to Benetton are about slim and none!!


>Just my cent worth!

>		- J.J.


>#################################################
>#     Juan Jose Mata <jmb3+@Andrew.CMU.EDU>     # 
>#     Carnegie Mellon University - Freshman     # 
>#     Electrical and Computer Engineering       # 
>#-----------------------------------------------# 
>#     Go L.A. Dodgers !   Go L.A. Kings !       # 
>#     Go L.A. Lakers !    Go S. F. 49ers !      #  
>#               ! Hala Madrid !                 # 
>#################################################

>"How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise, Johnny."
>				-Louis Cyphre (Lucifer)
>				 (Robert DeNiro in Alan Parker's Angel Heart)

TOBY...
From: boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:20:52 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira) writes:

...
>A professional driver will/should drive any car.  If he can get his
>hands on an already developped, likely winner car (as Williams seems
>to be), then all the better.  Otherwise he *should* drive for another
>team, with a new or upcoming car/engine.  Help them develop it and
>maybe in a few years he will find himself sitting on a winner!!
...
>Unfortunately this trend of "I will drive the best car or not drive at
>all" seems to be picking up [a la Prost last year].

Not to pick nits (he says as he proceeds to pick nits), but Prost was
willing to drive for Ligier, not necessarily a top contender (<-understatement)
given the right amount of development funds, in the hopes that they would
eventually produce a winner. In other words, start with a bottom-feeder and
turn it into a winner. Unfortunately, the funds were not forthcoming. I
would've liked to see what would've resulted from that project.

>Just my 2c worth.

I see your 2c and raise you 1c. :-)

>-Miguel

toufic

            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez@cesl.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University, NJ
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: F1: some Belgian questions
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:23:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.093738.11633@wes.on.ca>, tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
|> A race is called a "wet" race if and only if at least half the field starts
|> on rain tires.  I must say I'm baffled (and happy!) about why they didn't
|> stop the race when it started raining...

In France this year, the first part of the race was a "dry race" and it
was therefore stopped when it started raining.  By the time the second
part of the race was started, it was again dry so that most of the
drivers (all but one or two, I believe) started on slicks.  However,
the second part was DECLARED a wet race, and therefore was not stopped
when the rain began to fall again.  This contradicts your above
statement.  I am not saying you are wrong:  Since I don't know the
rule book, I am just reasoning by "circumstantial evidence".  Another
conclusion would have to be that the Belgian GP was apparently also
declared a wet race, right from the start.  Maybe the people in charge
in France and Belgium don't know the rule book either?

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: question about F1 point system
Date: 27 Aug 92 10:49:39 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <17fu41INNk0f@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> harmon@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Jim Harmon) writes:
>I have a question about the F1 points system.  I have been following F1
>since 1980 and I still fail to understand the incentive for teams that 
>never score points to continue racing. Do they get prize money or 
>something like that for finishing out of the top 6?
>
FOCA (Formula One Constructors Association) pays some money on a
complex sliding scale to the top 20 cars on the grid for each race.  
Bernie Ecclestone doesn't like to say how much this is worth.



			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: I had a (F1) dream...
Organization: Internation Institute Of Metaphilosometrics, Maitland FL
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:36:50 GMT

Alan F. Perry, George Brims, Grayson Walker, and
shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>>>>I had a Formula 1 dream...and it DIDn't include:-
>>>Me too! And the cars were painted in national colours.

[much stuff deleted.][

>>The usual American fascination with nationalism is creeping in here.
            ^^^^^^^^
>>Do you really think Senna is racng for Brazil or Mansell for Britain?
>
>So, there is no nationalism in Mansell's statements that he wants to
>see an all-British podium this year?
>
To quote that great American Hero, Felix Unger, "Never assume. When you
assume, (ass u me) you make an ass out of u and me."
         ^^^ ^ ^^
As something of a purist, I happen to like seeing red Ferraris, Dallara, 
BRG (British Racing Green) Loti, and so forth.

I certainly prefer these colors to the colors of Marlboro, Camel, Rothmans,
or John Player.

The original thread spoke to the dream of racing without the whinning of
people like Prost, Senna, and Mansell. My piece of the dream (I dream in
colors) has to do with national racing colors instead of advertising
colors. It has to do with aesthetics rather than nationalism.

But on that topic, I think Alan was right about Mansell. The desire for
an all British podium certainly speaks more to Mansell's feelings for
the UK than his feelings about the other drivers from the UK.

Further, nationalism is certainly not the creation of the United States.
It has been around much longer than the USA. Many of the geopolitical
events of this Century have featured one or more countries doing something
to one or more other countries for "nationalistic" reasons. To suggest
this is somehow unique to the United States rings of the bad taste of
racial or ethnic jokes. It has no place in civilized discussion. 

-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949                        Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: BELGIUM-SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:38:29 GMT

	Hey Racers,
I just finished watching the Grand Prix of Belgium. It was quite a race! Here
are the particulars: 1 Michael Schumacher- fastest race lap as well
		     2 Nigel Mansell
		     3 Riccardo Patrese
		     4 Martin Brutal, I mean Brundle
		     5 Ayrton Senna
		     6 Mika Hakkinen
The weather was a major factor in this one. Everyone started on slicks, but
just as the green lights went on, it started sprinkling on the pit straight.
Everyone ended up pitting for rain tires, Senna staying out the longest, while
leading. Senna had gotten the lead by making a great start on the inside, down
to La Source. Mansell passed him about 10 laps into the race, going into the
bus stop chicane. Senna proceeded to fade on slicks, as the track got nasty-
loosing three places on one lap just on the run to bus stop!!!!!! Anyway, 
Mansell pulled out a slight lead on Patrese, who was hounded by Schu, Brutal,
and Mika Hakkinen. With about 15 laps left, everyone started to pit for slicks
as the track now had a dry line. Schumacher's stop was very quick, leaving 
Mansell in second after his stop. Mansell set out in pursuit, but his Renault
developed a misfire or the exhaust broke, because it sounded very rough. At
the checker, Shumacher had his first victory in only his 18th GP start, on
the one year anniversary of his 1st GP. Mansell held off Patrese, and so on.
The Lotus of Johnny Herbert was in 6th, and Hakkinen in 5th, but Herbert 
pulled off the course, probably with a driveline failure, and Senna passed
Hakkinen.

A pretty good race, all in all. As a side note, did anyone miss the David
Letterman top 10 reasons to watch an f1 race??? It was HYSTERICAL. I don't
have a tape, so could someone that does, please post it...ADVthanksANCE

TOBY PADBERG...

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: aldrich@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Rahal Comment
Keywords: competition
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 19:55:16 GMT

In article <31AUG199214563463@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.134257.29271@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, 
> mini11@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.kearney) writes...
> > 
> >What was with Rahal yesterday after his accident? The way I saw it was
> >Stefan Johannson and Bobby were racing. To say Stefan shouldn't try and
> >race to win because he's doesn't have any championship points is absurd!
> >Given the course limitations for passing areas I'm assuming Stefan thought
> >he could get by Bobby. I know Tony B. doesn't spend his money to just
> >finish each race. Every team is there to win!
> 
> The other point is why didn't Bobby let Stefan go by?  Maybe (just maybe) 
> Stefan tried to take something which wasn't there, but with Stefan's car 
> being faster than Bobby's at the time, the potential for an incident was 
> there for a number of laps before it happened.
> 
> Any word on comments from Mario after the race?  Paul Tracy becomes yet 
> another victim of Mario's "brain-fade".
> 
> JD

Anybody else out there recall Johannsen's somewhat excessive blocking
maneuvers at Cleveland?  At one point he took such a dive to the inside
that he nearly left the course.  Point being that Rahal really did blow
it, imho, but if he'd watched the Cleveland telecast he'd probably have
found some safe place to park until Johannsen was well out of sight...
-- 

 Jeff Aldrich    <aldrich@sunrise.Stanford.EDU>
 R&D Engineer    Center for Design Research
                 Stanford University
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport