From: kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Keith A. Cochran)
Subject: Question. <Dodge>. Question. <Dodge> (Was: The Voices of Women)
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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 18:20:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.201819.7748@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>In <1992Apr4.185510.21498@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Keith A. Cochran) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr4.145454.25907@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>>>In <1992Apr3.111600.12898@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <1992Apr3.132019.2384@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>
>>Gee, Steve, and how many children have YOU adopted?  My bet: Zero.
>   Sheez, first of all, as far as I know, I am not sterile. So, if my
>                                                   ^^^^^^dunno yet... heh
>wife is able to have children then we will have our own. Adoption is an
>option for those who cannot have children of their own. Don't kid yourself.
>There are many people out there who are unable to have children and who are
>also unable to adopt because of a lack of unavailability. 
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I'm going to assume
                      that you meant to type, "a lack of availability", because
                      it makes more sense...

Ok, so does that mean there are no orphans in Canada?

>
>>Which has NOTHING to do with your original statement that a woman could work
>>for the first 7 or 8 months of her pregnancy.  Does Canada give benefits for
>>women who are PREGNANT with their first child, and have to stay home, or just
>>for women who are RAISING children?
>   As I said the two are one and the same. If a woman has a child and
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^No, they're not.
>has to stay home, she will be financially compensated for her efforts.
>I still don't think it is enough, but it is certainly an improvement.

Ok, let me rephrase the question.

1)I am a single woman.
2)I get pregnant.
3)I have no children (yet.  The z/e/f doesn't count yet, not being born).
4)I broke up with my boyfriend when he suggested I get an abortion.
5)My doctor says that in order to avoid ruining my health and the health of
  the fetus, I have to stay in bed for the last four months of pregnancy.  This
  means that I'm going to lose my job, and won't have any insurance, etc.

Now, the question:  Will the government of Canada "compensate" me for carrying
the pregnancy to term, since I am *NOT* raising children yet?

>
>>I assume this is still part of the "9 months of pregnancy = 80 years of
>>happiness" stuff?  If so, I'll re-iterate my "let me fist you for nine months"
>>stuff again.
>   Yeah, lots of people just LOVED your analogy. WOnderful logic. I guess you
>don't read all the posts, but I think it was Gaylord who answered your
>pathetic logic well... If your life depended on fisting me for 9 months
>and there was no other way to keep you alive, then I would allow you to. 
>However, a) your logic stinks because that is clealy not the case, b) you're
>a sick creep for even considering the possibility and c) I wont' humor you
>anymore on the subject...
>>No, most of the time women who choose to abort are THINKING ABOUT THEMSELVES
>>AND THE OTHER *PEOPLE* IN THEIR LIVES.  Period.
>   What abou the fetus? Ahhh yes, the ol' catch 22... The fetus isn't a
>person is it... It's just a lump of tissue? I imagine a fetus is a hell
>of a lot smarter than some of the pro-choice arguments I've met on
>here...

Gee, we should introduce you to Suzanne, who also feels that all the z/e/f's
are tap dancing and solving quadratic equations immediatly after conception.

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, 91% of all abortions in the US are
performed before the 12th week of pregnancy.  Do you know what your Holy Fetus
looks like at that time?  Could it be...a lump of tissue???
>
>>Extreme circumstances type of theoritical question follows:
>   HAHAHA - THIS IS GREAT - READ THE FOLLOWING! FUNNY AS HECK! 
Not for the women who are faced with a pregnancy that will kill them if they
had to carry the z/e/f to term, asshole.
>
>>You are a male.  Your wife is 4 weeks pregnant.  If your wife carries the fetus
>>to term, there is a 100% chance that you will die.  If your wife has the four
>>week old "WarmCuteFuzzyUnbornChild", you will be pushing up dasies.  No if's,
>>an's, or but's.  You legally have the power to force her to obtain an abortion
>>if you wish it.  Your wife has no say in the matter.  If you want to live, you
>>have to force your wife to have an abortion.  Do you make her do it?
>   Incedentally - how does a male die if the woman is having the child?
Oh, I don't know.  God is going to strike you dead.
>This is where I lose all respect for your argument. This is not even a
>plausible circumstance, yet you try and set up your entire argument on the 
>matter?
No, Mr. Fuzzy Logic, I'm *NOT* trying to set up my argument on the matter.  My
argument is that you [generally male] pro-lifers keep harping about how "all
life is sacred" I'm trying to find out if you REALLY think that it is. The
question here involves a hypothetical choice in a hypothetical situation,
and nothing more.
>   In any case, no - I can't say I am a hero... I can't say I am a brave
>man, but I would like to think that I put my own fellow's life over my
>own. That is what I have been taught, and that is how I _FEEL_. But, I have
>never been able to put that to the test, so for now you must be content
>with my words. You asked me a silly question and regardless of the answer
>I give you will stomp on it most assuredly. Go away until your childish 
>analogies are improved...

So, you're saying that even though you don't know if you would allow yourself
to be killed by a pregnancy that you would force a woman to be killed by a
pregnancy?  If the answer is yes, that seems mighty hypocritical of you...
>
>>I realize that as an analogy to pregnancy, this question never had a chance to
>>stand up, let alone fall flat on it's face.  However, I think it is a semi-
>>reasonable analogy for some of the "all lives are equal" people.
>   Semi-reasonable analogy huh? heh
>
>>Oh, and please don't evade the question by changing it.  You have one of two
>>choices to make.  Your wife aborts the fetus, or you die.  None of this "Well,
>>if there was only a 50% chance that I would die..." stuff.  100%  If your
>>wife carries the pregnancy to term, you're history.
>   I wouldn't dream of changing the analogy. It has to be one of
>the funniest posts I have ever seen. I wouldn't do you the honor
>of improving your post. That would take away from it's humor.
>
>
>>=Ex-Girlfriend of Rocker and Susan, and Damm Proud Of It!  Oh, And Yes, FWA!!!=
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ who the hell is rocker and susan, and how can you
>be an ex-girlfriend? Isn't your name keith?

Gosh, mister, you're just *SSSSSOOOOOOOOOOO* observant.
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