From: kebarnes@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Here Are The Undeniable Truths of Life
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:48:17 -0600
Distribution: usa
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <grendel.722041805@camelot>, grendel@camelot.bradley.edu
(Alyosha Bourgea) writes:

> In <69483@cup.portal.com> sjthomas@cup.portal.com (Stephen J Thomas) writes:
> 
> <ad hominem attack deleted>
> 
>>Rush Limbaugh's 35 Truths                                          
>> 
>> 1. The greatest threat to humanity lies in the nuclear arsenal of
>>    the Soviet Union.
> 
> Even when it was a political power, this was untrue.  The greatest threat
> to humanity lies in those humans who are in power, wherever and whoever they
> may be.

Certainly you aren't equating a democratic system with an authoritarian
one, are you? Or do you think the recent U.S. election was rigged, and
a moral equivalency does in fact exist ;-}? I'm much happier now that the
former Soviet Union is becoming democratic. If the elements in the FSU
which long for the law-and-order days of Stalin ever regain control of
the government, woe be unto us for cutting the defense budget too deeply
and doing liberal sociology experiments with our military personnel.

>> 2. The single greatest threat to the free people of the world is  
>>    posed by the Soviet Union.                                     
> 
> What does he mean by "free"?  Capitalist?  The people of the FSU were not
> prisoners.  They did not consider themselves prisoners.

Tell that to the Soviets who tried to travel abroad, or emigrate to Israel.
Really, you must not have been paying attention during the Cold War!
 
>> 3. Peace does not mean the removal of nuclear weapons.            
> 
> Nope, but the presence of nuclear weapons is less peaceful than their absence.
> Why?  Because they are tools of war, and war is by definition not peaceful.

In fact, the US/SU nuclear standoff may well have prevented another World War.
Almost as soon as the standoff ended, the U.S. and its allies felt
unconstrained in reversing the invasion of Kuwait, something which, if
it were to have occurred in the context of the height of the Cold War, would
have been viewed with much greater trepidation. Yugoslavia provides another
example of this effect. The pawns in the Cold War are free to start
something on their own.
(Of course, given what has been recently disclosed about the Cuban missile
crisis, I'm not longing for a return to the old World Order either. But you
can argue that the Cold War prevented the great powers from launching a
major conventional war. Otherwise you'd have to blame the absence of such
a major conflict on the results of the Great Capitalist Imperialist War,
a.k.a. World War II for those of you not in Berkeley, CA.)

>> 4. Peace does not mean the absence of war.                        
> 
> Peace is greater than war.  The lack of war does not guarantee peace, but the
> presence of war prohibits peace.

Restating Limbaugh's point, much less succinctly.

>> 5. War is not obsolete.                                           
> 
> Unfortunately, no.  This is a testament to the slow pace of the evolution of
> human consciousness.

Actually it's a testament to the nature of the system.
(See: The Prisoner's Dilemma in game theory.)
Crime pays in the short term if there's no one enforcing the rules of
good behavior. Or do you think nations are less subject to this than
individuals? At least in this most recent instance, the U.S. subjected
itself to the only pretense of a higher political authority around before
stomping on an upstart regime. It not only looks better when we do, it
lends credibility to the idea of an international law, which is the
only alternative we have to the "law of the jungle". Of course, were
the U.N. to be invested with real (i.e. military) power, where are we to
look for a higher authority to control *its* actions? God knows. :-)

> 
>> 6. Ours is a world governed by the agressive use of force.        
> 
> yes.

See above.

>> 8. Peace cannot be achieved by developing an understanding of or  
>>    with the Russian people.                                       
> 
> Bullshit.  By failing to understand them, we make them the faceless enemy,
> who are much easier to destroy.  Their propaganda mills do/did the same to
> us.

He should have said, Soviet people, of course. This is dated, but it *was*
true during the Cold War. Until a democratic government is in place,
talking to the powerless masses could not readily influence their leaders,
and talking to the Communist dictators without the threat of force
did little good either. SALT, SALT II, etc. were routinely violated, and all
we could really do is send them a letter. It was indeed, an evil empire,
ruled by evil men, to greater or less degrees of tyranny.

>> 9. Americans opposing America is not always courageous. Sometimes 
>>    it is dangerous.                                               
> 
> Yes, and sometimes Americans supporting America is dangerous.  Nothing is
> absolute.  Protest is the active exercise of constitutional rights, but more,
> it is the practice of democratic action.  It is _patriotic_ to disagree.
> That's what America is all about.  If we go on and on about how we're the
> only nation to allow its citizens complete freedom (unlike the FSU) and then
> we censor or chide our citizens when they use their freedom to disagree
> rather than accept authority's decisions, aren't we being just a bit
> hypocritical???

Limbaugh's point is self-evident, and it includes your point, by way
of implication. Put positively, the statements could read:
"Americans opposing America are sometimes courageous, and sometimes
dangerous."
The question is, do we have the wisdom to see which is which?
And do we have the courage to counter anti-Americanism when it is not
fashionable ("P.C.") to do so?

>>10. Communism kills.                                               
> 
> Life kills, Mr. Limbaugh.  So does capitalism, i.e., a drug dealer killing
> a former customer who is about to inform on him, in order to protect his
> financial security.  Control kills, whatever form it may manifest itself in--
> authority, money, government, weaponry, et cetera.  Communism ain't unique.
 
Limbaugh restates and updates Lord Acton. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Capitalism (as it is practiced under a democratic government) separates
economic power from the direct control of the State, thus lessening the
potential for absolute power which occurs when the State is the only
employer and sole provider of goods and services. The separation of
economy and State is at least as much to be desired as the separation of
Church and State. This is one of the prime lessons of Communism.
(BTW, Fascism, in its economic implementation, shares the same flaw; and
others besides... They didn't call it "National Socialism" for nothing!)

>>12. Freedom is God-given. It is the natural state to which humans  
>>    yearn.                                                         
> 
> Fuck God, freedom is human-given.  We give ourselves individual freedom,
> and if we have an intelligent government, they give us societal freedom.

Free will is yours by birth. Governments are instituted to limit and
channel your free will, so that you don't infringe the rights of others,
and they don't infringe yours. Too much government is the problem, but
too little government is no solution.
(God language is a little too strong for some people, evidently. But don't
worry, God's going to kill atheists, too.
We'll all find out whether "Fuck God" was a stupid statement. And anyway,
I thought Venus was a goddess.) 

>>13. To the Soviet Union, peace means the absence of opposition.    
> 
> Believe it or not, the SU, Former or no, does/did not speak with one voice.
>

But when it didn't, it used to whisper. Limbaugh's referring to the
Soviet government. Remember when Aeroflot's planes never crashed?
 
>>14. To free people, peace means the absense of threat and the      
>>    presence of justice.                                           
> 
> Again, I take issue with the "free people" euphemism, especially in light of
> number 12.  If Limbaugh argues that freedom is God-given, then everyone's
> a free person, right?  Unless God doesn't love the Soviets...

The ""free people" euphemism"? Evidently couldn't argue the *content*.

>>15. The peace movement in the United States, whether by accident   
>>    or by design, is pro-Communist.                                
> 
> No.  Limbaugh seems to have a tendency to use blanket terms and huge
> generalities to classify what he does not understand.  The peace movement is
> far too large and fragmented to ever be supposed to speak with one voice.
> As a peace activist, I can attest from an insider's point of view that there
> are Communists in the peace movement, as well as socialists, anarchists,
> transcendentalists, Christians, capitalists, and lots of other folks.
> The only time the peace movement ever comes together to produce a significant
> activity, it is usually quite mainstream, as in a huge organized demonstration
> in Washington to protest the proliferation of nuclear weapons.  Is legal
> protest against nuclear weapons pro-Communist?  I think not.

Unilateral disarmament wouldn't have made the Soviet Union go away.
Neither would the "nuclear freeze". Reagan's defense spending made
the Soviet Union go away. It couldn't keep up.
(His rhetoric helped too. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!")

>>16. The collective knowledge and wisdom of senior citizens is the  
>>    most valuable, yet untapped, resource our young people have.   
> 
> Untapped, yes.  Most valuable, no.

Most valuable untapped resource, yes.

>>20. There IS a god.                                                
> 
> This is an undeniable truth of life for Mr. Limbaugh.  It is not for me.
> There is not, has never been, and never will be any proof for the existence
> of a supreme being.  It's a matter of belief, not truth.

Mr. Limbaugh's in-your-face theological assertions did bother you,
didn't they?

>>21. Abortion is wrong.                                             
> 
> Single mothers living in poverty with six starving children is wrong.

Birth control is NOT wrong. Abortion IS a conflict between the basic
rights of two individuals. How you choose to settle this conflict
determines whether you wish to deny the mother's rights, or the baby's.
And when.
(It IS a baby in the mother's body by the end of gestation, whether you
like it or not. And the single-celled embryo is NOT a baby, any more than
an acorn is an oak tree. <Thought I'd piss everybody off for a change.>)

>>22. Morality is not defined by individual choice.                  
> 
> "To those who say I can't impose my morality on others, I say, just watch me."
> Rush Limbaugh knows what's best for me?  I think not.
> 
> Morality is relative, as is everything else.

"If morality is relative, I'd hate to meet your relatives."
They'd probably argue that murder isn't morally wrong as they're revving up
the chainsaw.

>>23. Evolution cannot explain creation.                             
> 
> Creation cannot explain evolution.

You're both wrong :-).

>>24. Feminism was established so that unattractive women could have 
>>    access to the mainstream of society.                           
> 
> Absolute bullshit, possibly the most offensive of Limbaugh's bogus "truths".
> Limbaugh insults and ignores what he does not understand or what makes him
> uncomfortable.  He prefers to wallow in his own illusions.  This contention
> of his is so repugnant as to almost not be worth the time it takes to respond
> to it, but I assure you that even the most attractive woman won't make it
> into high-level business or govermental office without the push of feminism.
> Ugly men have been making it big for a long time. <etc.>

So have ugly women, but they've had to be born monarchs.
<<Zing!>>
"It's a joke, son."--Foghorn Leghorn
                
>>25. Love is the only emotion that cannot be controlled.            
> 
> Limbaugh seems to control it well enough.

I'm not so sure about this one myself. But go ask Woody Allen.

>>26. The only difference between Mikhail Gorbachev and previous        
>>    Soviet leaders is that he is alive.                            
> 
> The only difference between Rush Limbaugh and George Wallace is that he's
> overweight.

The only difference between the above and humor is... well...

The only difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton hasn't been
voted out. Yet. <Subtle irony>

>>27. Soviet leaders are actually left wing dictators.               
> 
> Believe it or not, not all Soviet leaders are any one thing.
>

The only difference between someone who says the above and a Soviet
leader is... they're not Communist. The Soviet leader, I mean. 

>>28. Despite what they are teaching at the University of Missouri,  
>>    Abraham Lincoln saved this nation.                             
> 
> Debatable.  He didn't fight the CW single-handed.  He was also a racist,
> a waffler, and many other lovely things.

Despite Clinton's (and others) attempts at comparison, I'm not living in
the Confederate States Of America.

>>30. The United States will again go to war.                        
> 
> No doubt.
> 
>>31. To more and more people, a victorious United States is a       
>>    sinful United States.                                          
> 
> To me, a sinful United States is a victorious United States!!!

Guess what! You're one of THEM! (No surprise.)

>>32. This is frightening and ominous.                               
> 
> Rush Limbaugh is frightening and ominous.

Only to one of THEM! (Again, no surprise.)
But what do you want to DO about it?

>>33. There will always be poor people.                              
> 
> Only as long as there is capitalism.
> 
>>34. This is not the fault of Malcolm Forbes, Ronald Reagan, Rush   
>>    Limbaugh, or any other rich person.                            
> 
> No, it is the fault of the system which Forbes, Reagan, et al take
> advantage of.
>

A Communist. Q.E.D. (No wonder they thought there was nothing wrong
in the "worker's paradise." Say hi to Fidel for me!)

-- 
*.x,*dna**************************************************************
*(==) Ken Barnes, LifeSci Bldg.                                      *
* \'  KEBARNES@memstvx1.memst.edu                                    *
*(-)**Memphis,TN********75320,711@compuserve.com**********************
"If nobody said anything unless he knew what he was talking about,
a ghastly hush would descend upon the Earth."--Sir Alan Herbert
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton