HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:55:15 EST
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Culture and Grave

 >From: Tuya@ccmail.uoregon.edu (Tuya)
 >Subject: Culture and Grave
 >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:29:03 GMT
 >
 >
 >          Why are chinese poor and what is wrong with the chinese
 >          culture?
 >

                     The abuse of communism made chinese poor.


 >          I think we can blame the idea of "quan2 pan2 xi1 hua4,"
 >          especially Chairman Mao who advocated for this and learned
 >          ideas from the west, especially Germany.  The results are
 >          clear.


                      Actually Mao didn't know much about Dr. Max and
                      his followers.

                      And finally he threw the west believers and theories
                      into furneral. The only left was the red books (4
                      volumes).

                      CCP advocates Mao's thought.
                      Look at how much Dr. Max in it.


 >
 >          I don't think we should be appologetic for being chinese,
 >          though.  One of the problems with our culture is exactly we
 >          are appologetic.  Look at Su Xiaokang.  He recently decided
 >          the "yellow civilization" may not necessarily be lower than
 >          the "blue."

                        He might have learnt more from "Blue Civilization".
                        His  report literatures are much more convincing
                        than his civilization arguments.
                        Surprising enough, Taiwanese seldom hold similar
                        opinions  toward chinese culture.

                        Maybe that's a  way to forgive oneself's incapability,
                        even though the chinese dad was skillful in his time.


 >
 >          We may dig out our ancestors from the grave, and whip them
 >          for 300 times, the end result, I am afaid, is not going to
 >          be we become rich.  But instead, we will be blamed for our
 >          behavior, which is again, part of our culture.  What do you
 >          guys think?
 >
 >          Tu Ya


                         Interesting.
                         You may enrich your culture hopefully, and
                         get rich.
                         Your son unlikely blames you, saying you made
                         the money and nothing left for him to make.
From: hl2a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Haiyan  Liu)
Subject: Re: Somebody tell me why this is wrong
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:33:44 GMT

>In article <1992Nov23.155635.10794@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>	It seems to me that it is extremely hypocritical to be both for
>>unconditional MFN and for (and protected by) the Student Protection Act.
>

The unconditional MFN can benifit China economy and 
the protection bill is not necessary since China is safe even if it
is a communist country), example: 
( thousands of students go
back and forth to China
Chinese students who came before April 11, 1990 should be equal with
the students who came or will come after 4/11/90.  And more.. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: About CMFN
Keywords: China MFN
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 09:43:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.190709.24339@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> yu@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Yanbin Yu) writes:
>In article <BxxAs9.9A1@math.uwaterloo.ca> yma@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (William Yan Ma) writes:
>>...........
>>will change a lot. That's really helpful for the China's transition to
>>democracy system. Democracy is not just a concept.
>>
>>William Ma
>
>
>Yes, democracy is not just a concept.
>I guess nowadays nobody is really bothing about this word.
>because there are so many definitions about this.
>It is doubtful that there is a person really loving democracy,

It may the nature of everyone that he always wants to get more democracy
from others but not to give others democracy.


J Su

>but it is for sure a lot of people love money.
>However, everyone is concerned with money at least.
>China now runs the second the largest trade surplus with US,
>and people in Washington will find anything they can to
>reduce this. Maybe MFN will be an easy target.
>
>YYB
>
>
>
>
From: xzhao+@CS.CMU.EDU (Xudong Zhao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: D-fighters, P-fighters and others
Date: 24 Nov 92 04:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.By7EKx.Bsz.1
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

Finally I realized why the DPP in Taiwan are willing to beat up people.
On the net, both D-fighters and P-fighters can easily get fairly emotional.
Not to mention one D and two P's.

Merry fighting

BTW, may I humbly suggest that you guys move battle ground to some game board,
like GO. It is fun. But again, it depends on you. Don't send me big hats
for Dong4 yao3 Jun1 Xin1.
From: rap@news (Ross Paterson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: MFN
Date: 19 Nov 1992 18:54:02 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Reply-To: rap@doc.ic.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: peaberry.doc.ic.ac.uk

From article <1992Nov19.160625.15210@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha):
> In article <1eg84qINNabd@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk> rap@doc.ic.ac.uk writes:
> Disastrous is too strong a word in my opinion. And remember that we know
> that the (as you point out very expensive) Cold War tactics did help to 
> cause the totalitarian regime in the USSR to crumble.

Plus the threat of human extinction hanging over our heads for 40 years,
and the destruction of the proxy wars.

> We know that ruining the economy of a nation forces a bad government out.

I assume "bad" means "disliked by the US".  OK, it worked for Nicaragua
and the USSR.  It hasn't worked yet for Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Burma
or Vietnam.  (or New Zealand :-) )

> What makes you so sure that helping to improve the economy of such a
> nation will destroy its totalitarian government?

All those controls are incompatible with a dynamic economy, as you were
pointing out.  And it has worked, in Brazil, Hungary and Czechoslovakia,
and has partially worked in Chile, Kenya, South Korea and Taiwan.

There's a limit to what you can achieve by putting conditions on MFN.
The CCP has demonstrated more than once that it likes growth, but will
sacrifice anything to preserve itself and its hold on power.  Of course,
this means there's a crunch coming.  How can we help keep it as peaceful
as possible?

Ross
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: Right-to-own vs. Right-to-use  (About HK 1997)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:54:29 GMT

In article <2B0C1E58.2838@news.service.uci.edu> yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes:
>After 1997, Right-to-use Hongkong belongs to Hongkong people and other
>Chinese people; Right-to-own Hongkong belongs to the Chinese people and
>...

	The most important "right-to-own" delegation you missed is the
	"right-to-own" Chinese government.

	If Chinese people disagrees with Chinese government, who gets to
	decide? How Chinese goverment knows what the Chinese people wants?
	Oh, could it be that Chinese government is the Chinese people?
	Well, never mind.


Yung-Kao Hsu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: servant@cheshire.oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari)
Subject: Birthdays and calendars
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:02:34 GMT

Hello.  I have a friend, born in Vietnam, who doesn't know her birthday,
because the birth certificate was filed late.  She does however know the
day on the chinese calendar, namely the 10th month, 16th day, of 1972.
Does anyone know the equivalent of that day in the western calendar?
Please reply via email, to servant@oxy.edu.  Thanks!
From: jamesou@zygote.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Ma FuBo, Garlic, Small Report
Date: 15 Nov 1992 20:40:07 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: zygote.hsc.usc.edu

I wrote:

#  this is what was written in "Shen2 Long2 Ben3 Cao3 Jing1", an
#  ancient Chinese book of herbal medicine:
#
#     "Yi4 Yi3" Wei4 Gan1, Wei2 Han2, Zhu3 Feng1 Shi1 Bi4, Xia4 Qi4,
#     Chu2 Jin1 Gu3 Xie2 Qi4, Jiu3 Fu2 Qing1 Shen1 Yi4 Qi4.
#
#     "Jin1[tendon] Gu3[skeleton] Xie2[devil]
#     Qi4[gas]", I guess it means helping the sprained muscle.

On second thought, since Yi4Yi3 is used primarily for treating
rheumatic paralysis (Feng1 Shi1 Bi4), "Chu Jing Gu Xie Qi"
perhaps should be translated as "soothing the pains of the
joints".

SCC netters who are working in the pharmaceutical industry: it is
time to extract the active ingredient from Yi4 Yi3 and get rich. :-) :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: chan@aloft.att.com
Subject: (none)
Organization: OSU Physics Dept.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:30:49 GMT

Dear friends:

The 55th anniversary of the Nanking Massacre is upcoming, and this
will be the third year the overseas Chinese in North and South America
have actively participated in the commemoration of this unforgettable
tragedy in modern history.

During the last three years, with the effort of Chinese around the
world, we not only have contributed to the education of our people, but
also to the education of the West on the Nanking Massacre.  We hope
our campaign will eventually contribute to the education of Japan's
new generation, not only on the Nanking Massacre alone, but more generally  
on the sufferings their country brought to China and the rest of the world
during the War.

In Hong Kong, the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union will urge the
Educational Department to revise the Chinese History curriculum for
the secondary school to emphasize more on the Sino-Japanese War, 
particularly the Nanking Massacre.  Similar lobbying plans have been
proposed in California.  We hope the same can be done elsewhere.

The recent visit of China by Emperor Arkihito marks the beginning of a 
new era of the Sino-Japanese relation.  Although we are all disappointed
by Japan's refusal to apologize and compensate for the war crimes, the
Emperor's visit nevertheless has forced the Japanese to remember and 
to think about what their ancestors had done to China.
For example, a survey in Japan showed that more than 50% of the people 
being interviewed believed that the Emperor should apologize during
his visit to China.  There have also been debates on whether the Emperor
or the Diet (the Congress) should apologize.

It is clear that Japan is very eager to become 
politically strong (e.g., being a member of the security 
council of UN) after being economically strong.  This
is thus a good chance for us to force Japan to face and take responsibility
of her inglorious past, but THIS MAY WELL BE OUR LAST CHANCE.
If Japan manages to stand firm in the next few years, she may be able
to get away with it forever!  If Japan does not learn from the past
for which an enormous price has been paid by the people of both
countries, what we expect to see is another repetition of history.

Let's continue with our campaign this year and keep up with the good work!

NYHKN

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.chinese.text
From: hchen@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (H. Chen)
Subject: Re: Chinese character simplification, is it now necessary?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:17:12 GMT

I can tell that this will be another endless debate.

In article <1992Nov20.141209.61096@cc.usu.edu> ma@cc.usu.edu writes:
>An single example is not convincing. Here is counterexample, the insect
>"chong2". Don't you think one piece of the identical three is enough?
>Besides, you don't need to remember two things (a character and a radical)
>in this case in JianTiZi.

For your reference, this character, ~{3f~}, and the one you mentioned, 
triple ~{3f~}, both appear on the BIG5 characters set.

My recently crunching BIG5 characters set found that there are at least
81 so-called JianTiZi characters in this FanTiZi oriented set.  Such as,
~{3s#,2O#,53~}.

I believe you can explain this from either size, pro-simplified or pro-
traditional.  Either way, that's fine to me.

But one thing is for sure, there is nothing is "pure" as we would expect.

~{;[=\~}

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ?
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:09:32 GMT

In article <102441@bu.edu> lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:

>This is not to me. But I'd like to help. Mr. Chen ZiMing was accused
>and now in jail, solely because of his bussiness activity. So please
>start your serious discussion.

	I don't think that was the reason he was accused.  I doubt he
himself or his comrades would agree to that either.

	His "business" had been going very well for several years 
without major problems before he took part in the 1989 movement.


	 Eddie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: [News] China's first supercomputer
Keywords: supercomputer, China
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:33:08 GMT

In article <1erpokINN8th@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> liujie@research.CS.ORST.EDU writes:
>
>Nov 23  20 lns
>Chinese Engineers Unveil the Country's First Supercomputer
>  Beijing, China -- China's first supercomputer was powered up late last week
>after five years of development on a shoestring budget of about $10 million,
>according to Reuters.
>  Called Milky Way II, the supercomputer was developed by a team of engineers
>at the National Defence Science and Technology University in Changsha, Hunan
>province. Officials said it will have "wide applications," but did not give
>details.
>  "China has made a big leap forward in developing high-performance
>computers," Xinhua news agency said on Friday.
>  Milky Way II reportedly is capable of processing one billion bits per
>second.
>  "This computer reduces the gap between China and the other nations with
>advanced world-class technology," the official People's Daily stated. "This
>computer has special significance in developing our economy, science and
>state security."
>  Jubilant Chinese leaders had sent the scientists congratulatory telegrams,
>it added.
>  The $10 million budget compares with the $100 million needed to develop
>similar supercomputers elsewhere in the world, it added.

I thoought the Yin He I in 1985 was "China's first supercomputer".
It was like a Cray-1 in both architecture and shape.

$10 million is not low when salaries are only a couple percent of US salaries.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: CFMN?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:41:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.022040.20353@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng) writes:
>
>It is impossible to know exactlt the original intention of those peopl
>who promote CMFN.  It should be pointed out that CMFN makes people's
>living conditions in China worse.  
>
>J Su

If you don't know, let me tell you. It is people's emotion
against a brutal government. It is an expression. It might
not be the best way, but the way people have.

The problem you don't understand it is because you have assumed
something which is wrong. You may not understand why your wife
divorce you. You may be furious. That is because you have not
thought in the way she did. But if you assume she is an evil and
kill her, you will be in the court.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin)
Subject: Re: questions of the Korean WAr
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:16:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.174526.1204@netcom.com> kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
>A thing that I've always found interesting is that most Mainlanders regard
>the Korean War as a "victory", while it has always been presented in the
>US as a "draw".  It is regarded as a "draw" in the US since the military

 Simple enough: the defn of K-war is differrnt. While mainlanders
talking about Korean war, we really mean the later part of it in which
Chinese involved, that is the "Fight US, Aid Korea" war:Kang4 Mei3 Yuan2
Chao2 .

 That was a victory, admitted by both side, other wise where comes the
"draw" after US' big victory(pushing NK troop from south shore north to
C-K border)?

  So, both claims are correct.

 By the way, many americans think the US lost, a book I read is "KOREA,
the first war we lost".

>situation which existed before the war is essentially identical to that which
>existed after the war, in terms of territory.
>
>It could even be argued that the war was a "limited victory" for China, since
>the primary Chinese military objective of maintaining a friendly buffer state
>between China and American armies was achieved, while "total victory" would
>have involved complete conquest of the Korean peninsula by either side.  I

  No, that would be a "total victory" of North korea or Soviet, not
China. China went into the war with US only because it felt in danger, 
remember at that time KMT was defeated by CCP only one year before, and
it was backed by the US.

  Just like American said, Korean war was a wrong war, at a wrong time,
with a wrong anemy.
>suppose this would be the argument used in China, although I doubt that the
>CCP uses the word "limited" :-)
>
>The primary US objective of maintaining South Korea _was_ achieved.
>
>It seems that the real losers were the dead of both sides and the Koreans
>themselves, who gained nothing in the war and had their country wrecked.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
>MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
>kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
>                                    |
>                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: xyang@bcars279.UUCP (Sherry Yang)
Subject: Re: NEWS: China overseas policy change
Reply-To: xyang@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:56:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.111721.90604@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, mte152s@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
|> ================================================================================
|> "China lifts foreign ban but cuts sponsorship", By Geoffrey Parkins of
|> Sources: HIGHER EDUCATION (British).
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Commission has said that China would issue passports to all students
|> accepted by foreign universities.  And government would "respect their
|> freedom of travel" on their return to Chine after graduation.

Now, the hot potato is in the hands of universities in U.S.A, Canada, 
Australia, West Europe, or wherever Chinese students may consider as 
a place worth trying.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: 93chen@cua.edu
Subject: Re: Please let Zhou Enlai rest in Peace
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:14:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.195709.14753@tamsun.tamu.edu>, hongl@cs.tamu.edu (HL) writes:
> 1).  I honestly believe Zhou had considered all the factors before he made 
> the decision to do what he believed to be the best thing to do for china.
> 
> 2).  Outsiders are always more clear than the people involved.  But again, 
> outsiders may not know all the facts and difficulties he had to face.  
> Pang2 guan1 zhe3 qing1, dang1 juu2 zhe3 mi2.
> 
> 3).  For those of you who think he could have stopped Mao from doing wrong
> things, think twice.  Zhou didn't have the power or military support.  Even
> if he did, was starting a civil war really worth it?  People had suffered 
> enough from World Wars.  Besides, he couldn't foresee what could happen in
> the future, being in his shoes, he avoided internal fights by compromising.
> 
> 4).  For those of you who think he should have stood up to Mao, then he would
> be a hero, but would China be better off with a dead Zhou.  He put down his
> pride, his honor, even himself, worked hard for the goals he believed would
> be beneficial to China at that time.
> 
> 5).  He was found with cancer in 1973, I think.  In the final 4 years of his
> life, he could have chosen to lay back and rest, but instead, he chose to work
> even harder in order to compete with time, to try to get as many barriers out 
> of way as possible, and he suffered tremendously.
> 
> 6).  For those of you who think he did wrong and want to punish him,
> just think having no children as his punishment.  Even if the rumor were true
> that he had children, then he couldn't know his children, live with his 
> children, must be a painful thing.
> 
> 7).  For those of you who like to judge people, just step in his shoes and
> see if you can do better.  If not, then stop judging him.  If yes, then
> have you done anything for the people.  Even if the answer is yes, shouldn't
> you spend more time on helping others since you have the ability than judging
> him.  May be you would say you don't have the power, but then since you have
> the ability, you should be able to think some way to do more constructive 
> things.
> 
> Finally, past is past.  I understand exploring the past would help us avoiding
> mistakes in the future.  But concentrate too much on what would have been done
> or what should have been done can't help us building a bright future.  Just
> remember Zhou was only human being, he was not god, he couldn't control a lot
> of things, he made mistakes, and he suffered for them.  So, I ask you all 
> please let him rest peacefully.
> 
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: chenx@cua.edu
Subject: Re: mail-order bride
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:21:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.201507.4251@hspice.portal.com>, georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.043138.3802@jho.com> john@jho.com (John Ho) writes:
>>kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao) writes:
> 
>>>On the other hand, many people gave up more just to come to american. In the
>>>early day, a lot of taiwanese college girls will marry black american 
>>>soilders (no racial discrimination or what so ever intended here) in order to 
>>>come to american. Nowday, there are still many asian woman will marry old
>>>american men for the same favor. It is sad but it is also reality.
> 
>>That reminds me of those mail-order bride ads on some newspapers.  I
>>am so mad everytime I see those ads.  It is a major shame to all Asians. 
> 

Sometimes, I read a Chinese newspaper named World Daily and saw  some of
this kind of the "Mail Order".  To my surprise, most of this kind of 
advertisements came from a specific area in the mainland of China.  
Can any one make a comment  on it?