HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Feeling them wounds
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:23:56 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <Bu5JD4.19t@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes:
> 
> This discussion of realism in AD&D over GURPS seems to be changing into a
> debate over whether or not characters are reacting realistically to wounds
> based on the rules.  The general commentary seems to say that no, they do not,
> which is fine if that is the way the rules are set up and that is the way you
> want things to go in your 'reality'.  But for those who are looking for a
> simple way to bring some sort of wound response to their games, why not try a
> variant of the Star Wars system.  A character hit but lightly so is
> 'stunned/staggered'; they lose one dice off of their skills for the remained of
> this 5 second round and the next one.  Those hit harder are considered 
> wounded' and lose that skill dice until healed.  After that they are
> 'incapacitated' and are out of the action and one more bonk and they are
> getting a first hand look at the mechanics of dying.  This skills penalty
> (small though it may be) does add to the game, makes players aware they have
> been wounded, has the side effect of simulating pain/shock/whathaveyou and is
> easy to deal with.  Did I mention that the wound effects are cummulative (sp?) 


	I like to describe the SW combat system as one where its damn easy to
knock out a PC, but very hard to kill them (assuming the GM doesn't start
lobbing proton torpedoes at hapless rebels :-)). Still, its a nice cinematic
combat system.

	For GURPers who want the pain to last longer: on the round after the
penalty would be dropped, the PC must make a HT roll or suffer the full penalty
again. If the HT roll is made, the penalty is halved (drop fractions). They
must make the HT check every round until the penalty would be reduced to 0
(after dropping the fraction, of course). I don't know if I'd do this myself --
GURPS already has too many combat rolls.

Brandon Cope
From: peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:17:11 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <batemanc.716481663@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
>gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre) and v057qkmm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Bluerazor) rage:
>
>>>	Ok, I'm going to objectively compare Battlelords to those OTHER 
>>>so-called Sci-fi game systems out there. So listen up gamers, and flame
>>>away!! I'm going to be brutally honest.

Battlelords has a silly looking cover, it'll never sell ;-)

>>>	Battlelords now has the LARGEST, most complete equipment manual
>>>ever compiled, Lock 'N Load. It has over 2000 pieces of equipment, fully
>>>described, and is 160 pages long!! Other systems are missing the basics of
>>>life, like radios and beer.  Battlelords has everything, even tomb stones
>>>to mark your shallow grave on an alien hunk of rock!!!

Even Star Frontiers had a lot of equipment (Zeb's Guide). So what?
Who counts the number of items?  Who cares?  Equipment is trivial
to make up anyway.

>>Psionics is just another word for sci-fi magic. Every game seems to feel the
>>need for some system where the players get to control things without actually
>>touching it. Why?
>No No NO!!!! This is why almost all Psionics systems are DREADFUL!
>Psionics is NOT magic. This is why I hate Spacemaster. If you want to see
>WHY psionics isn't magic, watch 'Akira' or read 'Dune'. 'Outlands' has 
>(a mon avis) the best psionic system because it FEELS like psionics,
>not 'sci-fi magic'. It also has a nice combat system, but it probably `
>isn't as 'realistic' as 'Battletoast' because it is intended to be used
>as a fast, dramatic system.

What about the Julian May books?  Magic or Psionics?
It feels like psionics but it looks like magic, or is it the other way round?
And since when were Traveller psionics like magic?
Also a lot of games base their psionics on Star Wars, that's why
they look like magic.  There's nothing inherently better about
the *concept* of psionics in Dune than in Star Wars.  It's like
saying that your computer rules are only any good if they emulate
Neuromancer, except with psionics there ARE NO FACTS, it's all a matter
of taste.

More stuff about Living Steel from Mad Chris (he plays Cyberpunk you
know, now there's a really crap system: lethal but little else).
--
Peter Wake
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best, the worst
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:53:14 GMT

v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:

>	Why did you think that the game costs 50 dollars? The basic 
>book is 20 bucks and Lock N Load is 15.

My misintreptation of your post.  "I have 50 dallors that says so." or some
such.  I've seen that to mean that you paid that much for it.  My mistake.

>	It is deadly, however a deadly combat system does not imply that the
>victim of an attack dies every time. In such a case there would be no PC
>development whatsoever. The combat system is efficient and fair. A person
>in armor has a fair chance of survival in a fight; however if you are 
>unarmored, you would be wise to avoid combat.

My point is that the reasons you list for it's combat system being good are
that it is quick and deadly.  Since you don't support it with anything further,
that means that you are supposing that quicker is better, and deadlier is
better.  Since I prove that it is not necessarily so, then it shows that the
combat system cannot be said to be very good just because it is quick and
deadly.  In conclusion, since I can prove that quick and deadly isn't
necessairly a good thing, and you don't support your contention that it is
a good combat system past that, you leave your idea unsupported.

>	-> The deal with the 50 dollars was a mistake. It was not intended to
>mean that the game costs $50. 

Understood.  However, even at $35 for the base game and the equipment 
supplement, the game doesn't seem to hold a candle to Hero, that can do
everything it does and more, *if you want it to*, or can take on a totally
different character altogether.  Much more flexible.

-james
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: A few things...
Date: 8 Sep 92 10:19:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

To "Red Five" - AKA the nice poster who left EMail regardng women in Lace
and Steel.  Thanks for your comments, they were most informative and very
illuminating.  I agree with you that Lace and Steel does downplay violence in
favour of charcter development and very satisfactory games can be run with only
the occasional duel.  I too broke with the steroetyped ideas and encouraged my
two women players to run what they wanted and I ended up with a begining
alchemist looking for supplies and a place to set up shop and a local farm girl
who was just visiting town the day of the fair when they inadvertantly got
invovled in a plot to kill King Firned and decided to investigate...

To "Ace" - I liked my SIG, I thought it was funny, I am sorry if my ego
bothered you.  Easy enough to fix...

No sig...
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gun combat in Boot Hill
Date: 14 Sep 92 09:31:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep14.013709.23142@sol.UVic.CA>, mmcalees@cs16.UVic.CA (Michael McAleese (One of 'Those Dudes')) writes...
> 
>   Someone posted regarding the unrealistic gun combat in Twilight 2000
>and while I cannot comment on it (I've never played it) I did want to 
>put in a good word for the gun combat in Boot Hill.  "Boot Hill?" you
>ask, aghast.  "Isn't that made by TSR?!?"  Well, yes.  Or perhaps "was",
>I'm no longer sure it's still in print.

It is still available in a new edition presented as one single softback 
'perfect bound' book at a suggested price of 19.95.  No specifics on any 
changes but I belief that it includes reprints of a series of articles from
the Dragon titled "The Fastest Guns that Never Lived".

Skeksis
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: richv@hpinddu.cup.hp.com (Rich Van Gaasbeck)
Subject: Re: Time mechanics, healing and aiming
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:10:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Cupertino, CA.
From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (James E. Kittock)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Info on Cthulhu wanted
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:19:15 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Sep10.171739.1@vax1.tcd.ie> ogormanj@vax1.tcd.ie writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.005459.10080@latcs1.lat.oz.au>, wright@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright) writes:
>> 
>> 	Hi. I'd like to know a bit more about Chaosium's 'Call of Cthulhu',
>> i.e. what sort of game mechanics are used and a brief desc. of what sort of
>> storyline / adventure plots that players get into. I have played AD&D before
>> (1st and 2nd ed.) but no other system. What are the differences in stats etc
>> 
>> 	If interested enough, I'm going to start up a campaign, but I'd like
>> to know a bit more before I invest the cash.
>> 
>
>And remember the great Cthulu will save you(incase he gets hungry later)

Ah, but if you misspell his name, Dread Cthulhu will fry your
sorry mind! :-)

Seriously, though, CoC is a great game, I think.  I play mostly xD&D
(oops, scared off half the rec.games.frp.* people), and I find the CoC
rule system a refreshing change.  I would have to agree with the part
about not getting too attached to characters, but that has a lot to do
with how the Keeper (GM) runs things and how foolish the character is.

I and three friends played an adventure ("Dreams Dark and Deadly" or
something like that from the Cthulhu Now book) for about 18 hours
straight on two consecutive days over a long weekend, and I can
honestly say that it is the first time that I have seen gamers
actually get nervous about what was going on.  I don't mean the
characters, I mean the PLAYERS!  When I took one guy aside (into a
pretty dark room, no less, heh heh heh) to tell him what he saw, he
looked momentarily like he might snap.  What fun!  Seriously, it is a
cool game.  You can take it very seriously, or lightheartedly, as you
like.  Most of the published adventures (and there are TONS of them)
seem pretty good.  I wish I had more time/people to play CoC with!

Have fun,
--j


-- 
James Kittock -- Duke '92 -- Computer Science/Mathematics -- jek@cs.duke.edu
	  "What the world needs now is another folk singer,
	     like I need a hole in my head."  -- Cracker
From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:51:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: runic.VByqqB2w165w
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA

thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp]) writes:

> Sure.  Do it.  Simply sey up some "unescapable" situations for some of
                        ^^^
  Supposed to be set there.



---
thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Runic Writings
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Matthew D. Goldman)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:04:06 CDT

In article <BuDxot.1Cy@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>	1> Obviously I could not hope to have seen/played EVERY sci-fi system
>available.

Why?  How long did you say you've been gaming?

>	4> i don't claim that battlelords has better background development
>than other games. It is still new and the background isnt as fully flushed
>out as many established games, yet.

Oh joy, the beta test version of the game.  Or is it the alfa test
version?  Naa, Alfa is for paranoia :-)

Matt "I'll take 'Evil Galactic Empires' for 50 points" Goldman
-- 
Matthew Goldman          E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com
Fax: (612) 683-3099                 Work: (612) 683-3061
"There is nothing wrong with the software that rm won't cure."
		-Arnie Romo
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc,alt.feminism
From: hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison)
Subject: Re: Matriarchal Societies (was Re: Looking for "women's" rpg.)
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 01:55:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.154327.9242@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:

>In a review of Goldberg's _The Inevitability of Patriarchy_, Mead writes:
>
>"It is true, as Professor Goldberg points out, that all the claims so glibly 
>made about soceities ruled by women are nonsense.  We have no reason to 
>believe that they ever existed....Men have always been the leaders in public 
>affairs and the final authorities at home."
>
>I stand on the wording of my original post that there have been no 
>matriarchal societies of any "impact".

Apparently Mead has never been to Spain.  There is, and has been for centuries,
an actively matriarchal society in the south of Spain.  Men do not own property,
men do not make decisions.  When the Fascista tried to put the men in charge
there, they simply deferred the actual decisions to the women.

>Happy Gaming,

Happy Reality.
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp:25150 rec.games.frp.misc:5423
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: QUESTION: Looking for "women's" rpg.
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:06:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp

In <1992Sep11.020101.7591@pool.info.sunyit.edu> gmwh@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Mathew Hurd) writes:

>BRAVO ... ENCORE!  MORE MORE MORE.

>YOU HAVE HIT THE SPOT --- I believe that you are telling the facts.

>This whole feminist thing seems pretty silly, after all if we were ment to be  
>all the same sex and race and religion for that matter -- wouldn't we have all

>been born the same????

>Keep Thinking on it.

>Matt.

I doubt if I'm the first one to comment on this, but am I wrong in 
thinking that this thread has completely lost its original attachment to
RPGs?  Much of this thread, anyway....

Maybe it should be moved to e-mail or to a group where it belongs.  In
fact, I think I'll start by e-mailing my response to this article.


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	When life gets weird, the weird get a life.     :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
From: gmwh@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Mathew Hurd)
Subject: Re: QUESTION: Looking for "women's" rpg.
Organization: State University of New York -- Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:01:01 GMT

In article <1685C13035.MHART00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> MHART00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (mason hart) writes:
>In article <B
> 
>I shudder to think of the flames you're getting off of this one.
>Well, anyone so inclined had better bounce a few my way, because
>I'm gonna back Dartanyan up on this one.  "Womyn" ?!  Every time
>I run into this, I feel a perfectly human urge to break something
>into little tiny pieces.
> 
>Ladies and gentlemen of the feminist mob, language does not define
>its culture.  Rather, the reverse is true.  Yes, there are elements
>of our society that discriminate on the basis of sex, even as there
>are those that discriminate on the basis of color, religion, and
>other equally meaningless things.  These attitudes are fading.
> 
>Your insistence upon an alternate spelling for one among millions
>of lexical items is futile, childish, and downright irritating.  The
>use of the male gender in a neutral sense is an established
>characteristic of the language, not a calculated slur against half
>the population.  I'm sorry to have to pull your soapbox out from
>under you, but it's true.  If our culture demands a change in the
>language, then that change will occur naturally and in due time.
> 
BRAVO ... ENCORE!  MORE MORE MORE.

YOU HAVE HIT THE SPOT --- I believe that you are telling the facts.

This whole feminist thing seems pretty silly, after all if we were ment to be  
all the same sex and race and religion for that matter -- wouldn't we have all

been born the same????

Keep Thinking on it.

Matt.


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc,alt.feminism
From: flynn@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Mark Flynn)
Subject: Re: Matriarchal Societies (was Re: Looking for "women's" rpg.)
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:21:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.015515.8101@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.154327.9242@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>
>
>Apparently Mead has never been to Spain.  There is, and has been for centuries,
>an actively matriarchal society in the south of Spain.  Men do not own property,
>men do not make decisions.  When the Fascista tried to put the men in charge
>there, they simply deferred the actual decisions to the women.
>
>Happy Reality.

Having lived in Spain (Granada and Valencia) for two years, I must say that
I'm surprised to here this. Could you elucidate?

Mark Flynn


Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,alt.feminism,rec.games.frp.misc
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 15:52:38 -0400 
From: Karl Frederik Fischer <k+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for "women's" rpg.
	<BuAJIs.6G4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Distribution: usa

I saw some kind of documentary on PBS a few years ago that described a
strongly matriarchal society.  It's been a while so details are hazy. 
Here's what I recall:

This tribe of people lives in Africa near a jungle and some kind of
lake.  They both farm and fish.

Women are regarded as fundamentally superior to men because it is the
women who bear children and carry on the race.  Women may choose any man
they like as their mate, and they may change mates any time they please.
 Men consequently spend a lot of their time decorating their bodies and
trying to attract the attention of women.  Men without mates (typically
the old, sick, and lazy)  are pretty much left to fend for themselves
without much support from the tribe.  I don't remember so much about
leadership and property rights, but I think it is usually the women who
have the final say.  The women are organized into some kind of hierarchy
while the men are pretty much loners who are expected to serve and
revere the women.

As far as work roles, men are mainly responsible for hunting and
fishing, but get some help from the women.  Women are in charge of
farming (farming is connected with birth) but men are expected to help
out a lot.  I think women are mostly responsible for cooking and child
care but I'm not sure about this.

Sorry I don't remember key details like the name of the tribe or where
they live in Africa.  Anyway I thought it was a pretty fascinating
instance of a culture with rather different gender roles from our own.

- Karl
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Looking for "women's" rpg.
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:16:34 GMT

In article <Bu5Bxx.M3@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling) writes:

someone writes:

)>Since there is not any evidence that there ever was a truly matriarcal 
)>society of any impact, the type of campaign you speak of could be completely 
)>original.  I encourage people to create their own societies, and not be 
)>bound by any attempt to copy history.

)
)	I recommend you read _The Mists Of Avalon_ by Marion Zimmer
)Bradley.
)	
)	I must warn you, the Women on this group are gonna flame you to
)cinders.

The original poster is (IMO) correct.  I've seen very little evidence that
there ever was 'a truly matriarchical society'.  Part of the problems seems
to be in defining what a 'truly matriarchical society' is, it seems to me.
(Would we know one if we saw one?).

There were clearly matrilineal societies, but the experts I have seen quoted
deny that these matrilineal societies were 'really matriarchical'.

There are some serious non-fictional books on the topic that have been
debated at length over on soc.men.  Loren Petrich has mentioned the works
of the 'pro' faction in his long standing debate with Robert Schaeffer on
this topic.  However, I don't recall the author's name - ?Gimblya? -
?The Godess Myth?.  The anti-side I have read Steven Goldberg's 
"The Inevitability of Patriarchy" (an essay, not a book).  I wound up
disagreeing with both sets of views from what I read.  I'm of the viewpoint
that the topic needs some more definition (what exactly IS a patriarchy) and
probably lacks sufficient evidence to prove OR disprove.