HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9 loading data.
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:23:10 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#I shoot 9Major.  My gun was built by Jim Boland.  I use the 
#162gr bullet loaded to 38Super (from here on refered to as 
#the 38Stupid) over all length (OAL).  The gun is perfectly 
#safe.  I have been using for 4 years and some of my brass 
#has made Major 8 to 10 times.
#

What countries do you do this shooting in (since 9mm, by USPSA
definitional edict, cannot make major in the US)?

                                        rob b.
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Freedom Arms Mini-Revolvers
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:55 GMT


Sorry to do this, but the mailer choked when I tried to e-mail this
to grl@drutx.att.com..
Ok, it's not so bad....some people may find it interesting...

#How much does your local dealer want for these?

He's wanting $129 each for the .22LR and $139 for the Magnum.  They come
with the zippered cases.

#Wonder if they're out of production...  My wife brought home

According to the Blue Book, Freedom Arms quit making them in 1989,
with the 3" barrel discontinued in 1988.  They assign values of
$175 for the .22LR, with an additional $15 premium for the 3" barrel,
and $190 for the Magnum, with an additional $43 premium for the 3"
barrel.  That's in 100% condition.

#I've got a NAA 1.25" in .22 Short to complete my collection  :-)
#I believe it is the world's smallest production revolver.

FWIW, NAA will be having a limited run of the .22 Short mini-revolver
this year.  They're also coming out with a new style belt buckle holster.

Rob
From: jmg20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  911  James Gouldsbury)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silenced rifles
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:16:10 GMT


      Would any of the readers of this group know if rifles were available
      in WW2 in West Germany with silencers attached.
      If so what kind of rifles were they.

        Any info' would be appreciated,
        Thanks.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pet loads for 223
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:15:09 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9212282023.AA14294@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil> schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil (Larry Schuette) writes:
#
#I'm getting ready to purchase the powder/primers/ and bullets for my
#.223 caliber reloading exercises.  Since the Winchester 55 grain FMJ 
#is only 3.5 cents per (lots of 1K) it is the likely choice of bullet.
#Does anyone have strong feelings (of course you do) with respect to 
#powder and primer selection?  Since this is for a Colt Sporter
#(20" barrel), I'm interested in what other AR-15 shooters are using.
#

Let's see...  If the 3.5 cent bullet is any indicater; use the cheapest
amount of the cheapest powder you can get.  Otherwise, I like a Berger
52gr bullet with 22.6gr of H322, a Fed Match primer and a match prepped
IMI case. 

(Your milage may vary.)

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info on Case and Neck Turning with Forster Trimmer Requested
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:44 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1hqgavINNb4m@shelley.u.washington.edu> toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:
#In article <1992Dec29.160636.20615@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
##I would like to open the thread up a bit. I'm interested in turning the
##necks on my rifle brass and would appreciate opinons on what to buy.
#
#I use a Sinclair hand-powered turner.  It does the job well, but
#adjustment is by trial/error and micrometer measurement.  There
#are hand-type neck turners with some form of accurate control of
#setting cutting depth.  Hand turners are S-L-O-W but accurate.  
#I've never used a power neck turner.  I question the need for
#such a thing, because neck turning is really best suited to
#tight-neck chambers, and of limited (probably no) use elsewhere.

I agree with pretty much everything Toby says about neck turning
except that I have put inside neck reamers to another use.
I reformed some .300 Win Mag. brass to .350 Rem Mag. several
years back (when the .350 Rem Mag. Model 700 Classic limited
edition first came out the brass was very scarce). 
.300 Win Mag. is a much longer case than .350 Rem Mag., so
the body of the .300 WM case ends up getting reformed into
the shoulders and neck of the 350 WM. Of course, it was necessary to 
remove some material from the case neck (which was too thick due to 
being much further back in the body of the .300 Win Mag. case) after
forming. I used a Forester inside neck reamer to do that and then annealed 
the brass in the shoulder and neck area. Given my druthers, I'd much
rather pay for .350 Rem. Mag. brass at todays prices rather than go 
through that again. But, my point is that case forming can be another
reason to use neck reaming (which I sincerely hope is the pretty much
the same thing as neck turning or I'm going to have to ask you all to 
forget you ever saw this post :-).
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handloading startup info
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:39 GMT
Organization: Leave The %$#$%&*# By-Laws alone.

Get a good reloading manual (or several, they publish
new ones every so often) a good turret press that will 
hold all three dies for the .44. Get a powder thrower, 
it gets tire some weighing all the charges with a trickle 
charger. A good powder scale (RCBS,Ohaus, etc), Carbide 
die set (RCBS, Hornady, Lee etc), a Priming tool that will 
let you sit in front of the tv while you prime up 500 
rounds or so. I use a lee hand tool. The press will have one 
on it but it is slow using it and ties you to the work
bench while you are using it. A kenitic bullet puller 
(handy for when you screw up and have to take one apart)
2 sets of bullet blocks for holding the rounds while reloading.

so:
Reloading manual (Speer, hornady, etc)
Turret press
Dies (carbide sizing die) 3 die set
Scale
Powder trickler
*Priming tool
*Powder thrower
Primer pocket cleaner
*Bullet puller
Primers
Powder
Bullets
Work bench (heavy & at good height to work at)
Stool with back rest
Good lighting
*Tumbler
*=optional but real nice to have
A complete understanding of what you are going to do :-)
THEN you can start reloading, If possible get a friend who
already does come over and take you through the process
just to be safe. The 240 gr swc from speer is a nice round
to load with and is real comfortable in either the mag or
special brass (you can fire both in that wheel gun you know)
I have used dupont 4227, bullseye, unique all with good 
results. CCI 300 and 350 primers with good results and
Remington brass or speer brass from Lawman loads ($$)for
25 rounds. I just picked up a box of 500 "American bullets"
in 240gr cast lead swc for 18 bucks and the round shoots
well an all my .44's. The same bullet from speer in this
area is around 28 bucks and the round is "swaged" vs cast.
I just clean out the lead with a couple of "HOT" 240 gr
rounds to clean out the lead before I head home to clean
em.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:56 GMT
Organization: Kent State University

In article <viking.726287414@vincent1.iastate.edu>, viking@iastate.edu (Dan
Sore nson) writes:

<stuff deleted>

|> useful in certain situations.  There are quite a few variable-magnification
|> scopes on the market, and I find the lower magnification is excellent for
|> spotting a target or sweeping a field, and the higher magnification is
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think this is a good recommendation to use a scope while mounted on a
rifle for this.  Everywhere those crosshairs pass - that rifle is pointing. 
I can't speak for all - but I don't want even an "unloaded" gun pointing at
me.  Use a spotting scope or binoculars for this purpose - NEVER the rifle
scope.

Stephen.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:47 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#
#You know, I've always wondered *why* they developed the 9x21
#cartridge when the (virtually unused) 9mm Winchester Magnum
#already existed (I believe I've heard it is 9x22). I'm pretty
#sure 9mm Win. Mag. predates 9x21 by quite a bit.
#

I don't know if this is why, but :

- 9x21 will fit in most 9x19 pistols with very minor modifications
  (new bbl, etc.) rather than a change of frame size.

- Some countries (Italy, for ex.) prohibit civilian posession of 9x19
  and other military calibers but allow 9x21.  S&W sells 9x21 pistols
  as well as '45 short' pistols to the Italian civilian market.

                                        rob boudrie
From: doc@webrider.Central.Sun.COM (Steve Bunis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Brand recognition test
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Earlier I had asked for some general information on some guns that
my father has.  I didn't have very specific info. but appreciate the
replies I got.  I managed to get more details and am looking for any
information, references, value guesstimates etc. on the following -

MGH - 20 ga./25 cal. double barrel (side by side), 25" barrel
      	SN# 8694

Herbinet ERQ Leamiens - 16 ga. double barrel, 27" barrel
	SN# 3117

F (or E?). Dumoulin Co. - 16 ga. double barrel, 28" barrel
	SN# 62901

J.D. Moritz & Son - 8 x 57 double barrel (over under), 24 1/2" barrel
	SN# 8661

Waffen Munition, Leipzig, CHR.FRIEDR.TRIEBEL.SUHL, WH (somehow missed
getting the gauge on this one :^{  but would be interested in anything 
you might know about the maker.

I would guess that all of the above were manufactured in the late
1930's or early 1940's. 

Thanks for any help,

Steve

---
Steve Bunis,  Sun Microsystems
              Itasca, IL
From: GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SSK Address--want a .375 JDJ Barrel...
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:28:47 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

Does anyone have SSK's address?  I got a chance to try a gent's .375
Contender at the range and want to get one. It made my .30-30 Contender
look puny. :-)  Any ideas on prices of the barrels or any other info 
would be appreciated.  Also, does anyone know if he sells to the general
public or does he go only through FFLs?  Is there a price difference if
he sells to either?

Thanks,

Greg Hayes
--
Gregory W. Hayes

GWH@UH.EDU	greg@simpsons.cc.uh.edu
DISCLAIMER: I don't get paid enough to have an opinion...
University of Houston
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SKS vs. Ruger 10/22
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:23:12 GMT

I sort of interested (defined as very interested, but poor) in getting
rifle (up til now, it's been strictly handguns)

A lot of people on the net seem to think that an SKS is a fun first
rifle (yes, I AM interested in semi-auto) that can be had for a
reasonable price.

When I mentioned this to the guy at the gun store (someone I've dealt
with before, and whose opinion I respect), he seemed to think that a
Ruger 10/22 would be a better way to go.  Among the reasons were that
the SKS were variable in quality, and that the supply of ammo, while
good now, is subject to many things, and could dry up.  He also seemed
to think that the Ruger was a better platform for later customization
and add-ons (although I may have misunderstood him here).

I guess the disadvantages would be the smaller caliber (I don't think
the paper targets and cans will mind), and the old Ruger's politics
issue.

Any thoughts on the Ruger, or any other gun that might be suitable?

(yes, responses regarding Rugers politics ARE acceptable, IF phrased in
a civil manner)

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: malodah@srv.pacbell.com (Martin Lodahl)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cleaning freq. of a muzzle loader in the old days
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:08 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell

In article <01GT9ZDQRK6AEWWAW9@UMAECS> jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu writes:

#As sort of a historical question, I can't imagine a civil war soldier
#doing any kind of cleaning until the end of a battle at the earliest --
#and that's assuming cleaning supplies were handy.  My question is,
#how did they keep their rifle operational all day long?

You've just hit upon the reason nitro-based powders were such a
revolutionary development:  Yes, even in the middle of battle it
was necessary to stop and clean, if you wanted to be able to get
that next Minie ball down the spout.  If you could only get it
halfway down and fired anyway, chances are the barrel would burst.
The advent of cartridge arms changed the nature of the failure but
didn't eliminate it.  Trap-door Springfields were known to pull the
heads off of cases upon extraction when the chamber was too badly
fouled, and I'm told this took many rifles out of action at Little
Big Horn.  

My personal bias is that if you want a "shooter" muzzleloader, buy
a replica.  They're _lots_ of fun and you don't have the worry of
trashing an antique arm.

	- Martin
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:29 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

fountain@bach.udel.edu (Eric Randolp Benson) writes:

#	Someone else was telling me (not sure how much truth there is to it)
#tht you could either purchase or convert Calico .22's to full auto. It
#would give you a 100 round helical clip and low recoil, concealable
#package.  Don't know how true it is...

	I didn't think of this, but the pistol version would be ideal
for what I had in mind if it would be reliable.  However, I've heard
some people say that their calico products were unreliable junk.

The calico flyer states that they are not responsible for any repairs,
ie you buy it, it's your problem.  To me this is a big red flag for
"stay away from our product".

Jim Del Vecchio
From: sybase!randys@Sun.COM (Randy Schermer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: DON'T USE SMOKELESS IN A BLACK POWDER GUN
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:50 GMT

THIS THREAD ON SMOKELESS POWER USE IN MUZZLE LOADERS MUST BE STOPPED!

Using smokeless power in any muzzle loding or cap-and-ball firearm
is DANGEROUS, and given the amount of printed information and warnings
on the subject it is also very STUPID!

The chemistry, and thus combustion-expansion characteristics, of black 
powder and PYRODEX are entirely different than smokeless propelants.

Inconsistant loading conditions, the chance of double (triple?) loading, 
and the chance of cross-fires in cap-and-ball firearms makes smokeless
powder an entirely unacceptable and DANGEROUS option.

DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!  Look at the Lyman Black Powder Handbook.  
Speer reloading manuals have chapters on black powder shooting.  Call 
Hogdon and ask to talk to one of their chemists.

If the Rec.guns readers want power equivalents for muzzle loader or 
cap-and-ball weapons, refer them to the Lyman Manual.  It has muzzle 
velocity tables in the back.  A Ruger "Old Army" loaded to the 'max' has
a bullet weight and velocity equivalent to an average 38 Special load, 
but it is not a 38 Special!!!!

Black powder cartridge weapons are not the same as muzzle loading or 
cap-and-ball weapons!

PLEASE do not help to perpetuate myths that are destroying a fun and 
safe sport!

If someone is too impatient to read the warnings and to find out why the 
warnings are applicable, they are too impatient to use muzzle loading or 
cap-and-ball weapons.  You will find that your new 1851 replica takes 30 
times as long to safely load and fire two full cylinders as would a 
standard double action revolver.

Please post a warning and tell these people to read the proper manuals!






DO NOT DO IT!  DO NOT DO IT!  DO NOT DO IT!  DO NOT DO IT!



(All corporate disclaimers apply here.)
From: 71773.3463@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Major 9
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:13:59 GMT

#From (Chris Luchini)
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:39 GMT

#Someone posted a while back the Acurate Arms recomendataion for starting
#loads for Major 9 (Otherwise known as 9x21). If anyone has that
#data, could you please send me a copy? thanks.

Major 9 is NOT the same as 9x21. Major 9 generally refers to the use of
standard 9mm brass and heavy bullets loaded to make major. Not recognized
by USPSA as these loads exceed SAAMI specifications. 

9x21 uses different brass, similar to 9x19 but 2mm longer and stronger 
throughout. These are high-pressure loads for major as well, but there
are no SAAMI specs on 9x21 so you can't exceed them. Go figure.

There is NO PUBLISHED DATA available for Major 9 or 9x21, as far as
I have been able to determine. If you call CP bullets they will quote
some loads for 9x21 over the phone. I am using 7.5 grains of 540 behind
a 147 TC hardcast bullet, which gives 1220 FPS. 7.7 grains of AA5 give me
1310 FPS with a 135 RNL. Your mileage may vary - proceed with caution.

Brian
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Nationwide Sports Distributors
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:04 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <9301081913.aa17060@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
#I have not sealt with them.
#But as far as great service, I can reccomend:
#
#Sports South
#Accu Sports

I didn't catch the original on Nationwide Sports. They are the
Distributing arm of a large East-coast gun dealer chain called
Edelman's. Both Edelman's and NSD are notorious for bait and
switch, lousy service, interminable delays and rude sales
agents. I'd stay away from them.


-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: david@hawkesbury.uws.edu.au (David Watkin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 303
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:25 GMT
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury

My father recently gave me part of his gun collection, these include a B.S.
A .22 bolt action rifle, a bentley pump action shot gun and a 1945 303.
The only reason the 303 is a 1945 model is because thats when my father 
built it out of (then) new parts.
He was in the australian army most of his life and was attached to the Royal 
Australian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers.
The 303 was assembled and went through the field workshops for inspection 
in April 1945.
Well thats enough on the history of the rifle, what I need is any and all 
information on the WW11 model 308.
I do know the obvious cleaning requirements and safety of the rifle but I 
would like any info on shell types available, range and accuracy of the 
different shells, what game it would be good for.
Of course I wouldn't look at rabbits with it, but it should be good for pigs 
and so on.
Any information would be appreciated.

                              DAVE.
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reality in movies
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <JGM.93Jan8153039@vegas.cs.brown.edu> jgm@cs.brown.edu (Jonathan Monsarrat) writes:
#Sometimes in television or movies (such as "The Terminator") I
#see someone getting thrown back by the force of a bullet hitting them.

#As far as I can guess from physics, bullets don't have enough mass to
#do this, even if their entire velocity was stopped against a kevlar vest.

#Am I wrong?

no.

what you see in the movies is pure fiction. in real life, the only reason
a person gets "thrown back" by the force of a bullet hitting them is by 
their own volition, i.e. they expect to be knocked backwards, so they
comply.

a 10mm round hitting you has enough energy to "knock you back" about one inch.
curiously, this is about how far back the shooter's mass is pushed by the 
xrecoil.

gee, i wonder if there's a connection?  %^)



-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

"Those who will trade essential liberty for promise of security will have
 neither" - Benjamin Franklin
From: pklauren@nmsu.edu (Patrick M Klaurens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: US soldiers & Somalia
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:59 GMT
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

I keep noticing it too.  I think that the standard M-16A2 is too long
for house to house fighting.  By placing to butt of the rifle on the
lateral portion of the shoulder or upper arm takes 3"-5" off of the
overall length of the rifle.  I prefer my uncles's solution.  His
federal SWAT team was issued HK33s for 5.56 weapons.  They did not
have one to issue him, so he had a gunsmith attatch a carbine upper
(ten inch barrel) to an M16A1 lower and install tritium sights.  It
looks funny, but inch for inch I think that it is the best in its
caliber.  I am plannining on building a leagal (16 1/2 ") kit gun
using a 16 1/2" carbine upper reciever with a standard rifle lower.
Mine takes 4 1/2" off o/a length of the weapon and his takes a full
eleven inches off.
pat
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mmx19 powder choice?
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:15:00 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Dec30.222802.14222@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier) writes:
##My favorite 9mmx19 powder is HS-6 (or its almost twin Winchester 540).
##Used it with bullet weights 88gr to 158gr, excellent performance.
#

HS-6 IS WW-540,  they're are both made at the same factory.  One
goes to one can and the rest goes to the other.  It is a little
slow for the 88gr end of the spectrum.  I use 540 'cause I can usually
get it a little cheaper in bulk.

#	I went to the store planning to buy some 158 gr LRNs one day
#to use in my 9mm.  The point of this whim was to minimize leading
#with low vel (but high recoil) and to see what these long slugs would 
#do in front of the 4.6 gr BE that I like to use with every load in
#every caliber.  %^)
#

I would like to see the box of parts that used to be your gun if you
tried 4.6 of Bullseye and a 158gr bullet in a stock 9mm.  I use BE
and a 162 gr bullet in my 9 major as a nice plate load.  THe pressure
climbs much to fast to go much past 3.5 with Bullseye.  In this custom
gun that I use, 6.2gr of 540 and the 162gr bullet make major quite nicely.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.

#	Once there I decided they were too long and might cause
#feeding problems.  Yours work fine?  What was the OAL and vel?
#anyone else do it?
#

I seat to 1.2" which is actually way long and just short of 38super
and then use 38super mags in my 9major Colt.

#	Later I decided that the idea was a waste of time and that
#there is nothing wrong with the 115-125 gr slugs that the gun is
#intended to work with.

Good idea.  The words that should be emphasised are "designed for".
My gun was designed for 162gr bullets at 1150fps out of a 9x19 case.

Bill 	burge@qdeck.com