From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Good Bye Mr. Bush: The End, Really!
Date: 24 Nov 1992 05:53:37 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

>>I wrote , and then Nadeem wrote, and then I wrote, and then Nadeem wrote,
>>and then I wrote again, and this time Nadeem wrote( with Gul Agha's Help) again
>>And so I reply.....
>>

>You took too much time Mansoor Khan. I have already said everything I had to
	Did you miss me? I am sorry :-) 
>say. BTW, my reference to Gul Agha was only meant to acknowledge that ending
>a posting with "Peace" is something you normally see in his articles.

>>

>>>I am really not interested in a serious debate on any of these issues. If
>>	I do not think you ever were. You are the one who told me to
>>	buy a soap for my 2000 body parts and more :-), you told me
>>	to relieve myself, and thanks for your advice, and changed the topic
>>	from the discussion of corrupt politicians like Navaz Sharif,
>>	Benazir and Zardari, and Jatoi into arguments over Muhajirs. You
>>	forced me to put the data about Pakistani rulers' ethnicity.
>>	Zaahir hae, you were not serious!

>I had not changed any topic of discussion. You never responded to my reply
>to your original posting (the one in which the results of US elections
>reminded you of Pakistani politics). I DID NOT change any discussion into
>anything. YOU accused me of having made a racist remark against "Muhajirs".
>I challenged you to show where... You never did. That's what brought 
>Muhajirs into the discussion.
	Pick  any of your articles. Ghoom Phir ker, same Vohee Chiken
	kee ek taang. Sirkar! I did not comment on  your first reply p
	because I wanted to avoid getting  into any discussion on  any group of
	people.
	If you think that you never made any foolish remark against
	any group, fine. It is good news then. I must have made a mistake.
	
>
>>>I were, I would have responded to your criticism of Quota System in another
>>>recent posting. There is hardly anything achieved in such debates. In the other
>>>posting, you have also referred to the "Hyderabad massacre". I have on many
>>>occasions commented on such propaganda, and have given quite conclusive
>>>arguements in justification of population based quota system, and the
>>>Hyderbad cleanup operation. Each time after my response no one had anything
>>	Not this time baby, try me. There is no way anyone can justify
>>	the quota system the way it is implemented in Pakistan. And there is
>>	no way one can justify killings like those in Hyderabad, Sindh.
>>	In short Quota System promotes people like those who cannot take care
>>	of Floods in Panjab, and screw up railway control systems in Sukker.
>>	May be the people who were responsible for managing the two were
>>	selected and promoted-der-promoted because of their race/language
>>	and not because of their talent. Watch out for more disasters
>>	in Pakistan in future. 

>I'm sorry to say that you are not a very intelligent person. Even if you were,
	Dude, you need not to be sorry. It is me who should be ashamed of
	myself. An undergrad and a grad degree in Comp E. from Case
	did not help me understand the decency behind the Quota System.
	I think a third degree from Case (i.e. a Ph. D.) will  not  help
	me either. I must be wrong and stupid to think that Engineers
	who were responsible for the killing of hundreds of innocent lives
	in Panjab may have been selected and promoted because of the
	race/language not because of their talents. You see that is the
	problem with race/language based Quota System. It gets people
	suspicious about the qualification of the people selected.
	Have you heard the term "Token Black". I have worked in the
	Industry in this country and I am telling you from my experience
	that no matter how intelligent a black guy or  girl is, he
	or she, will always be referred to as a token Black.
	Listen to this old fellow. Because I guess, y
	doe-chaar bars umar may tujh say  baraa hoo'n may
        ( can't remember the exact shayr)
	Similarly, If the Pakistan Railways is not hiring the most talented
	engineers, the engineers they are getting may not be able to 
	design, implement, and maintain the railway control systems.
	What was so stupid about my arguments. By the way, if you think
	that i am not a very intelligent person, listen to this...
	and you may be happy to hear this....Every time i read your 
	posting I get smarter by the minute:-) :-) :-) 


>>either you do not know, or you choose to defy all rules of a decent discussion.
>>What is it in Urdu that they call people like you 'moonh ka bawaseer'. I simply
	Man I guess you are hanging around with babes a lot. And I am afraid
Old Babes. 
The term you have used "moonh kee Bevaasir" is pretty outdated
and is not used as a curse by women  any more. But, may be you should have used
Pachish. Every time I talk about Benazir or Navaz NoSharif or Jatoi, I start
using words like  shit etc. This is more of a Paychish symptom, and not bavasir.

>>don't want to discuss anything with you. And yes, I know some Urdu... the fact
>>remains, it's not my native language..
	Whether you know Urdu or not had nothing to do with what you were 
	responding to. And by the way, I admire that you speak Urdu.
	This means that you speak more languages than people
	who speak Urdu as their first language( most of the time).
	people who speak Urdu as their first language have not
	realized that knowledge of many languages is a blessing.

>
>>>to say. But what is achieved in that. After a couple of months someone new
>>>comes and says the same things and I am considered obliged to repeat my 
>>      No baby no, I am not a new one. I have been watching  garbage from people
>>	like you, Muhammad Javed Iqbal, and Rahim. Recently Mirza Ilyas
>>	has tried to fill up the position left vacant by Muhammad Javed Iqbal.
>>	So bulbul, I am not new.... I have been watching you Shareers for
>>	a long time. 
>
>I would assume then that you recently reached puberty...
>
>>>arguements. Unfortunately despite the fact that many people seem to be
>>>interested in following these debates (and as one gentleman once said that
>>>he had saved some 100 postings in such a debate) no one considered it useful
>>>to store it in the ftp site where transcripts of other debates were being
>>>saved. I'm still waiting for someone unbiased to make an FAQ as brother
>>>Haroon Dogar had suggested. Honestly, I don't have time to repeat the whole
>>>thing again and again... That's exactly why this time I did not make any
>>>accusations, contrary to what you are bent upon accusing me of. I tried my
>>>best to avoid it.... and BTW, if you think I am a racist, I'm afraid you
>	Well, may be you are not. But you do make comments like that.
>>	May be because of ignorance. 
>>>are very wrong. Either you don't know what racisim is.. or you don't know
>>>enough about me... or maybe both...
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>	Do not underestimate a khan. >

>Yeah right... 

>>>My objective this time was mainly to point out your use of offensive language
>>>about women of your country... I consider the word 'bitch' particularly sexist.
>>>... because this word is applicable to only women... similarly, I had objected
>>>to Saad Shafqat's calling Benazir the Prime Minister who sleeps with Asif
>>	Tell that to Saad Shafqat. He and I do not work in a team fashion,
>>	Unlike some others on the net. :-). 
>>>Zardari. Such comments are particularly despicable because they can be used
>>>against women only because they are women. What if some one asked you, "How
>>>is the man who sleeps with your mother" rather than "How is your dad?". Sexism
>	Was this question for me or for Saad Shafqat :-).  If it was
>>	for me, I have no problem.
>
>I'm not surprised... 
>
>BTW, I may not know about others, but you are no pathan...
 And you are no JFK.
I mean give me a break. Who cares if I am a Pathan or not. What difference
does it make. or does it? 
But if you are still curious, Aazmaa'ish shart hae!

>
>>	Yes, I accept it. I hate Bhutto and Zardari because the way they
>>	have ruined Pakistan. I hate Her father, and I hate her grandfather.
>>	If you knew any history of the province you claim to be yours,
>>	you will hate Benazir's grandfather too. Do you know, that
>>	Sir Shah Navaz Bhutto was against Sindh becoming a province,
>>	and always worked against the interest of people of Sindh
>>	And I hate  Daacoos like Navaz Sharif and Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain.
>>	Now you must know why I use dirty language for them. They do not
>>	deserve any better.
>


>You are too full of hate and dirt...
	Oof Allah, hum to kuchh keh bhee nahi'n saktay!
	When it comes to crooks like
	bhuttos and Nosharif and Jatoi and etc. I only have a shit feeling
	for them.



>I don't claim any province as mine... but then, how can some ta'soob-shit like
>you understand that...
Two comments here
1) It is good to know that you are not limiting yourself to any province.
   It is a good sign. Yes, whole of Pakistan is yours. 
2) You meant to say Mutaa'sib. Ta'soob is an act. Mutaa'sib is one
   who performs this act. That is racist.

>
>>>political statement, you aught to behave maturely. Shithead is hardly 
>>>something Bhutto was. Using dirty language for someone hoping that it
>>	Bhutto either was a shit-head or a traitor to Pakistan. Who will
>>	get the country into 1965 war, refuse the results of 1970 elections,
>>	or throw away the Polish Resolution for Cease-Fire in East PAkistan.
>>	Bhutto was either a stupid who did not know any thing. But, if you
>>	think he was really smart, then baby, he was working against the
>>	interest of Pakistan.
>>
>>>would in some way ruin his image hardly behooves normal grown-ups. As
>>	Do not worry. Even I dont beleive that my writing any thing
>>	against Z. Bhutto or Navaz Sharif will ruin their images.
>>	Pakistan is country full of Jaahils. People with short term
>>	dynamic RAM. No refreshing mechanism. 
>>	As long as majority of Pakistanis is Jaahil, don't you worry
>>	about me writing things against great Bhottos and Sharifs and
>>	Jatois and Ayubs. They will keep fucking Pakistan for generations.
>>
>
>I think Haroon Dogar might like to respond to your comment about Pakistan's
	Man what I wrote above was pretty simple. I was saying
	that majority of Pakistanis is jahil. Dont make it an issue
	like Khaatim vs. Khaatum. I know what you are trying to get to,
	but I will let it bounce, and refuse to play this shot.

>majority. I'll only say that it only shows how less intelligent and how much
>biased you are... racist?? well, I'll leave that word for someone to use.
	laiken, Aap kay moonh say sunnae may jo mazzaa hae, voh aur
        kahee'n nahee'n.  Stop blushing, you mashrikhee larkay!
>

>Nadeem

Mansoor Ahmed Khan
Cleveland.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan