HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 00:29:45 EDT
From: <U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Middle-class salary range
 <1992Jul15.201949.23188@highlite.uucp> <1992Jul16.155633.9484@tandem.com>
 <1992Jul17.130654.2172@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1992Jul17.171531.1284@tandem.com>
 <1992Jul18.210203.2183@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
 <1992Jul20.215518.21036@tandem.com>

Well, I've followed this exchange that turned into "how do we all afford
somewhere to live."  Just my two cents worth that probably won't work
for 90% of you, especially the orignial poster, who I believe lives in
CA.  In humbler states, like WV, KY, TN, OH, ND and on and on, mobile
homes are a surprisingly good solution for those of us in the
twentysomething generation.  When I lived in California, I paid $9000/yr
($700/month) for a 500 sq. ft apt, money down the drain.  In NJ, I paid
$10,800/yr ($900/month) for an 850 sq. ft. condo, more money down the
drain.  Now, in West Virginia (or fill in any other less crowded state
that isn't filled with restrictive zoning regulations and prejudice
against affordable housing) I paid $8,500 CASH to buy a 980 sq. ft.
mobile home, and pay $960/yr rent on a private 50' x 150' fenced lot
($80/month).  The trailer (loosely called - it is pretty solid unless
you hook a large truck to it) has more room and is nicer than the New
Jersey condo that cost its owner $120,000, with the added advantage that
I could actually afford it with NO INTEREST!  It is spacious, has lots
of windows, including bay windows in the living room with 10' ceilings,
and costs very little to heast and air condition.  I'm staying here for
a while, saving money, and paying no exhorbitant rent (except on the
land - and I'm thinking about buying that as well once I have the cash).
Don't tell me its good to pay interest - I prefer to only pay once for
my dwelling, thank you.
*
/-----------------------------------------------------------------:
|  Eric T. Meyer - u4400@wvnvm.bitnet  or  u4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Instructor of Soc/Anthro   |  Ph.D. Candidate, Anthropology    |
|  U. of Charleston, W.Va.    |  U. of California, Santa Barbara  |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------/
*
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: MSG
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:09:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.012711.19094@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com  
(bill nelson) writes:
> Just show me research that this occurs, except for the rare individual,
> and I will retract my statements. There are many things that could have
> caused that reaction. I am not saying that it wasn't MSG, just that the
> research does not support any such conclusion.

You dumb schmuck, wake up and smell the coffee.  There have been
several postings from different folks that are saying they have
exactly the problem you are denying exists.  Here is the real
world, research hasn't always been done, or done correctly, or
it lags behind.  Meanwhile, these folks continue to suffer -
some might not even know what the problem is.  All I and other
MSG-wary people want is to be able make our personal decision
not to ingest MSG by being able to read a clear labeling of the
food.  For all I care, you can bathe in the stuff if you want.

I return you to your research papers.

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: dgi@pyuxe.uucp (25493-iveson)
Subject: Re: Sticky paste in plumbing
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:03:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.141414.19582@crd.ge.com>, joseph@emmax5crd.ge.com (joseph) writes:
> Yesterday when I was walking around in the basement of my house,
> I noticed something which has gotten me worried.  I have copper
> plumbing, and the welding material (lead ?) used to join sections
> of pipe together seem to be melting.  This happens only on
> pipes carrying hot water.  The welding material has turned into
> sort of a sticky paste.

It's probably excess soldering flux that wasn't wiped off by the plumber.
Take a warm soapy rag and wash it off, then feel the silver solder around
the joint.  I'm pretty sure that you'll find that it isn't melting.  That
is, unless you have steam coming out of your hot water faucets. ;)

  Dave Iveson @ Bellcore,  Piscataway,  N.J.

  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed are my own, no one else wants to take the
               blame for them.  ;-)
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Citibank bill dispute
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:31:45 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.consumers

markm@wri.com writes:
|When my wallet was stolen in Boston, I was able to pick up a new American  
|Express card just two blocks from my hotel, and less than 36 hours after I  
|reported the theft.  It took me two weeks to get a replacement MasterCard.

From which issuer?  Mastercard and Visa service quality depends a
lot on the issuer.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.house,misc.rural
From: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Kilpatrick)
Subject: Re: Weedeater recommendations
Reply-To: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:51:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.122311.14901@fns-nc1.fns.com>, mcnc!fns-nc1.fns.com!gcm (Grover McCoury) writes:
|> I am seeking recommendations for good, reliable *gas-powered* Weedeaters.
|> A friend of mine suggested Poulan brand. Anybody have any other suggestions?
|> 

  I bought a Crapsman about 6 years ago.  It worked great the first year, then
afterwards, it had to go to the shop just to get the thing cranked.  After the
extended warranty ran out, I trashed it.  This time I bought a Snapper.  The
place I bought it from also carried Poulan and McCollough; but what sold me on
the Snapper was 2 years parts and labor warranty.  So far, this has been a gem. 
I did break the pull cord which was fixed as a warranty

jeff
From: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: How to cancel a credit card (Mastercard or Visa)
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:31:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Jul28.173119.24189
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

In article <22072809441040@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> DBBARBER@MACC.WISC.EDU ("Deborah B. Barber") writes:
>Misc.consumer folk:  when you cancel a credit card, what is the proper
>(that is, effective and self-protective) way of going about it.
> 
>Do you mail (or UPS, or....?) back the card cut in pieces?  If so, do you
>insure it or send it certified or registered mail.  By phone or in writing,
>do you tell the issuer WHY you are dropping their card (high fees or
>interest rates, etc.)?

     Call the customer service number, announce that you're cancelling the
card, and ask for instructions on returning it.  This will do a number of
things for you:
     1.  You'll find out whether or not you should return the card in the
first place.  Some institutions don't want you to mail the card back, even in
pieces, to prevent any chance of someone intercepting the letter and abusing
the number (in these days of mail order, cutting a card into bits doesn't
prevent its use, as long as the numbers are readable).
     2.  If any mysterious charges _do_ appear after you mail the card back,
since you're already given the company notice that you're cancelling, you're
protected.
     3.  If you do tell the institution why you're cancelling, they might well
rectify the problem that's leading you to cancel in the first place (waive the
fees, offer you a lower-interest card, raise your credit limit, etc.).
-- 
\ Mark Phaedrus, Computer Science Major, Univ. of Washington, Seattle, WA \*\
*\ Work: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu        Play: phaedrus@u.washington.edu \*\
\*\ Cute .sig quote still under alpha-testing; planned for release in 1993. \*\
 - Hi!  I'm an anti-virus utility!  Install me in your .signature right away! -
From: cola@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Ken Colasuonno)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Reusable Diapers
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:12:41 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO


>My sister is having twins in a few weeks and she is looking
>for a specific type of diaper.  There is a brand/type out on
>the market now that is reusable, but similar to a pamper.
>She is unable to get out of bed and therefore unable to
>"shop around."
>Does anyone know the brand name?
>Where to purchase?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Marion Radeer

  Gaak!  How about a diaper service or disposables!  We did our own
for our first child and that worked ok.  But when the twins came we
realized that we would be washing one load of diapers A DAY plus the
normal load(s) of laundry a day.  No thanks.  We can afford the
service and opted for that and are very happy with it.  Just take the
diaper off and dump it in the pail.  No knocking chunks off in the
toilet or soaking them first - bleeeech!  No fuss, no muss.

Good luck to her.

Ken 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Colasuonno                 Hewlett Packard - VXI Systems Division
P.O. Box 301                   VEE R&D Team
Loveland, CO  80539            Internet:  cola@lvld.hp.com
(303) 679-2903                 Mailstop CU325 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.folklore.urban
From: lola@lucid.com (Lola McCrary)
Subject: Re: Supplemantal Health Insurance??? Does it exist???
Organization: Lucid, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 05:40:26 GMT

In article <BrwIDt.4w0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> weller@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Bonnie Weller) writes:

   So I figure in
   reality we will be paying for about 50% of the birth and first years
   care of the baby.  Not the best deal in town.  And this is the normal 
   coverage most businesses offer their employess.  How can people afford 
   this?  Are there supplemental coverages that will help capture the 20% 
   plus some of the maintenance care not covered under our original 
   policy?  Do any capture the deductable?  Is it worth buying the extra 
   insurance if it is available?  And if so, could anyone recommend a 
   company that you've had good experience with?

   Thanks in advance.

   Bonnie

A warning:  Any policy you purchase now will probably not cover the pregnancy
if you are already seeing a doctor for it since it will be a pre-exisiting
condition.  

Also, you might consider having the baby in a "short stay" setting where you
stay in the hospital for less than twenty-four hours for a normal birth.  This
will probably qualify you as "outpatient" and at the very least should get rid
of that extra $100 deductible if not qualify for 100% coverage under your cost
containment provisions of the plan. If you can't find the relevant sections on
these benefits in your booklet call the insurance company and ask the customer
service rep if there is such a benefit.  Or ask personnel at work.  Email me if
you have any more questions.

The well child care is difficult.  Many plans simply don't cover it at all.  

Lola  (lola@lucid.com)
Claims examiner at large
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.taxes
From: west@ntmtv.UUCP (Andrew West)
Subject: Re: Middle-class salary range
Originator: west@herald
Organization: Northern Telecom Incorporated
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:57:46 GMT

From article <1992Jul21.191438.19296@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, by joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap):
> In article <1992Jul20.200753.13240@col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
>><F0O@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> 
> I learned this in Soc 101. I have been hearing for years on the news and
> in the paper about the average income for a family of 4 and what's the
> income for poverity level. In fact of all places ( Blossom ) I heard 
> last night that the average income for a family of four is $29,000 a year.
> That is middle middle class income across the country. I think that the
> poverity level is somewhere around $19,000 for a family of four and that
> would be classified as upper lower class.
>
> Joni :)

I've always thought the term "average [household] income" was not a
fair way to make comparisons.  I recently got into a discussion with
my Mom (who's owned her house for over 30 years--pre California Prop.
13) regarding property taxes.  She originally took the stand that
since my wife and my "household" income was higher than hers and my
Dad's, it was "OK" that our property taxes were higher.  After I
pointed out, however, that it took two college-educated full-time
workers to beat out their income (one full-time and one 18
hours/week), she agreed that "household income" wasn't a fair way to
compare.

Even if you are more specific and use "family of four" (instead of
just "household"), the statistics don't seem to take into account the
number who are actually working (e.g. one working adult, one
stay-at-home parent and two kids vs. two working adults and two
working adult children living with their folks) or the cost-of-living
for each area.

Andrew West
Northern Telecom    UUCP: {ames, amdahl, hplabs}...!ntmtv!west
Mt View, CA   USA   Internet: ntmtv!west@ames.arc.nasa.gov  or
			      ntmtv!west@ames.arpa

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: $$$ for middle class
Date: 21 Jul 92 03:33:27 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <brpaav.gal@wang.com> anon@no.where (Anonymous) writes:
>Middle class: single return under $110K

	 Able to afford a down payment on a typical condo w/o
	 investing in lottery futures.

>              joint return  under $150K
>
         Able to afford a down payment on a typical single-family
	 unit w/o investing in lottery futures or hiring hit person
	 for the in-laws.   

   
>Any opinions?

    NEITHER of your scales qualifies in this area.   

    I think I prefer BC's 200+K range for "rich"....I'll let ya know
    if I revise this (lower) limit if I EVER get that high.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Disconcerting goop from aluminum baking pan
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:18:10 GMT

dmr@medicated.Corp.Sun.COM (Daniel Rosenberg) writes:
: 
: when I wash the thing, typically with a green plastic scrub sponge,
: a grey, non-water soluble goop appears that's awful hard to get off.
: Even with new sponges. The goop actually seems to be coming from the
: surface of the pan.

What kind of soap are you using?  Does it make the aluminum turn gray?
If so, then it is probably an aluminum oxide. 

Aluminum normally forms this oxide. It keeps the aluminum from corroding
further. It will not harm you if you eat a little of it.

Bill
From: juyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: What is the "standard size" of contact lens?
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:40:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University


In response to an ad -- $49.99 for a pair of "standard daily wear soft contact
lens" including eye-exam -- I decided to go there and have my first pair of
contact lens.  

After taking the eye-exam, the doctor said that I need a pair of contact lens
in smaller size.  Then I went to the cashier and was going to pay for it.
However, the cashier charged me $69.99 instead of $49.99 as advertised.  He
said my lens were in special size, so $20 extra.  I could either pay $69.99
for the lens and the eye-exam, or pay $25 just for the eye-exam (no prescription
given).

I asked about the size, he said the standard size is 14.5mm.  What I need is
14.0 instead of 14.5, and that would be $20 extra.  The cost for the replacement
lens would be $40/pair (14.0), double the price of size 14.5 which costs only
$20/pair (daily wear soft).

Is size 14.0 NOT a standard size and is normally be sold at a higher price?
Or it was just the optical shop's scam to advertise at a low price, and charge
at a higher price when the customer go there?

Any advice or suggestion will be appreciated.

Julia
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: jchen@flash.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: MSG
Reply-To: jchen@flash.UUCP (Jason Chen)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:49:50 GMT

In article <182753@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.144117.20399@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>
>    I am allergic to the stuff...if you think migraine headaches are
>    a "short and mild" symptom, how about I come over and give YOU
>    one?   

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that one side effect of MSG is that this stuff
makes people say silly things. It can be severe at times. -:)
>
>>That is why FDA does not regulate the use of it, only the labeling of it for
>>those who are allergic to it.
>>
>>The whole thing was blown out of proportion in 60 Minutes.
>>
>    You are obviously not allergic to the stuff...nor a physician
>    who has to deal with people who are.  
>
>    Sensational yes, but if you've ever had a cluster or migraine, I
>    seriously doubt if you'd consider the experience "mildly
>    annoying".   Maybe if you enjoy brushing your teeth with an air
>    hammer...   

The whole message is very simple: "If you are convinced that you are
allergic to it, avoid it. If you have had Cambell soups or instand noodle
or chicken broth or potato chips.... and you have not felt anything wrong,
don't worry about it."

Why such a simple "if then" logic so difficult to understand?


C. Jason Chen 
jchen@flash.bellcore.com
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Date: Wednesday, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:34 EDT
From: <SASBOB@vm.sas.com>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Late night infomercials
 <1992Jul29.044012.15561@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
 <1992Jul29.121357.6466@bwdls61.bnr.ca>

I just read an article about the Ronco food dehydrator they sell on
late-night infomercials; to date, they have sold 800,000 through this
medium (at about $65 a pop).

Amazing, huh?
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Wierd CA Sales Tax Law
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:19:18 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

phr@soda.berkeley.edu (Paul Rubin) writes:
> ... leading to my local chocolate shop now calling its
> truffles "mousse balls" to avoid the tax.

You got a part number for those? ;-)


-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers)
Subject: Re: PPV Olympics: Oh, so now it's free
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:42:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.152728.28760@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> banchy@aplcen (Banchy thomas g (410) 461-2216) writes:
>All I can say is, those sleazy jerks in the cable industry deserve to
>get bankrupted for such a greedy, shortsighted ploy, and it's a real
>shame that the consumer is probably going to end up paying for the
>cleanup (just like always).
>
>$24/month for basic cable?!?!  Just say NO!!!

What?  Cable is much less than $24/month in Baltimore?  I pay $23+ for basic
cable here.  

--Ken
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: What does collectible mean?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:26:06 GMT

If a borrower can not or does not make the monthly payment, the bank
can come repocesses the "collectible".  For a car loan, that is the
car.  For a home-loan, it is the property.  Can they "confiscate" the
furniture and other contents (e.g., that mink coat)?

After the bank has sold the collectible and if there is not enough
money to cover the loan balance, can the bank come back for more?  Or
the repocession of the collectible is the end of it?
From: sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Compressors & Air Tools
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:24:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL

In article <1992Jul30.012019.18930@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard) writes:
>: > 
>: >What rating did the cord have and how long was it? 120V @ 15A would probably
>: >require at least 12ga and <=25 ft. Maybe even a 10 ga to be sure.
>: 
>: Where did you get that number?  NEC only requires #14 for 15A, for any distance
>: (until voltage drop becomes an issue).  He's probably got much more than 25 ft
>: of #14 (maybe #12 if it's a 20A circuit or the builders were generous) before
>: it even gets to the outlet.
>
>When you are running near max capacity, then voltage drop becomes a large
>issue. This is the case when you are running a 2 HP motor on a 15 or 20
>amp circuit. 

Read my post carefully.  If it's a 15A circuit (ie the breaker/fuse in the
panel is rated at 15A) he's probably got much more than 25 feet of #14 wires
inside the wall from the panel to the outlet.  Although the increased size of
wire in the extension cord will help, there will still be a significant voltage
drop (if that is really the problem) because of the wire inside the wall.

Assume he has a 1600 sq. ft house, in a 40'x40' square (just for some round
numbers).  If the outlet and panel are at opposite corners and you allow 2 ft
(too small) to go from the panel or outlet to a straight run between the two
you get a wire length of 2+2+40*sq.rt(2) ~= 60' of #14 inside the walls.  If
it can deal with that, it can deal with a few more tens of feet of extension
cord of #14 without that much more voltage drop (unless the motor's has a
minimum voltage drop to which it is sensitve, which I doubt - it's probably
a gradual thing).

Besides, if you look at the NEC table for required wire size as a function of
current (I forget the number) you will see that the require wire size for a 15A
circuit is actually smaller than #14 in the table (sorry, I can't be more
specific - I don't have the table with me).  However, there is a footnote 
saying that 15A circuits are always required to have at least #14 and 20A
circuits are always required to have at least #12 (I'm not sure of the reason
for this).  A wire size acceptable to the NEC for a 15A or 20A home circuit
already has a larger "safety factor" than other sizes of wire.

>I think 10 ga wire would be overdoing it, but 12 ga would certainly be a
>good idea, even for a short 25 ft run.

I agree.  It's why I always use #12 for any circuit not greater than 20A when
I'm running new wires.  However, I doubt that it will help him that much.

>I am slowly replacing all my extension cords with ones containing 12 g
>conductors. I am tired of having compressors that will not start because
>the voltage drop is too high.

Are you also replacing all the wiring inside the walls of your house?  Or do
you already have 20A circuits everywhere?