HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sya@ceas3.keh.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Prejudice against intelligence
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:46:57 GMT
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cegtitd@prism.gatech.EDU (Tim Dodd) writes:

>[ stuff about people being turned off by intelligence deleted ]
>
>In the present, athleticism is still valued, but it's more of a sidelight
>which can make for interesting conversation.  We might surmise (humorously,
>of course), that this was once the case for intelligence:

>cave-woman:  "Don't you hang out with that group of smart people?"
>small cave guy:  "Yeah, that's right.  Would you believe that we have
>              actually devised a method of counting all the way to ten?"
>woman:       "You're kidding!  How's it done?"

small cave guy: "Well, you can make use of your fingers, like this"
                (demonstrates)
woman:          "Stop! You're tickling me!" (laughs)
small cave guy: "I am not!" (smiles)
woman:          "You are too! You're so sexy, small cave guy!"
small cave guy: "Hey, let's go back to my cave. Heh."
woman:          "Lets! But promise me a backrub?"
small cave guy: "Would I disappoint you?" (grins)

[exeunt]

--
Syed Shibli
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Intelligent underachievers
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:35:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <l92qubINNspr@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu> jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey) writes:
>
>Okay, to start a new topic --
>
>One of the things I find most aggrieving about having been tested as
>very intelligent (99.5% percentile on CATTEL, SAT),  is that it just seems to
>make anything less than a perfect performance seem a failure.  Having
>grown up with my intelligence as my prime attribute at the same time that
>my apathy and lack of focus has made me less than a stellar student has not
>made for a combination conducive to a high self esteem.  One the one hand,
>I'm smarter than 99.5% of the population.  On the other hand, that leaves
>well over a million people in the United States smarter than me.
>...

I think that part of the (ie, our) problem is that basic study habits
and discipline are learned in grade school, where highly intellegent
students can put out minimum effort and get good grades.  (For example,
I could read before I entered first grade, and by the time I was in
fifth grade, I was reading at high school level.)

A second (and related) point is that competition increases as education
continues:

In grade school, a mensan is in the top 2% of the class.  In high
school with different tracks (general/college/honor), a mensan may
very well be in a class with the top 10% students, and thus may
now be in the top 25%.   In college and grad school, the
trend continues, so that in some competitive schools, a top
class may be 50% mensa eligible.  

The result of the two factors can lead to an intellegent, but
undisciplined, person facing increasing competition as 
education progresses.  Certainly a blow to self-esteem to go
from grade school A-student to middlin' college kid in four
to six years.

I think that the solution is for the parents and schools to
work with intellegent kids in grade school to better prepare
them for their future educational "careers."  This would,
of course, fly in the face of the current trend to remove
"ability grouping"  (as was discussed earlier).



 
-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
From: jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Intelligent underachievers
Date: 18 Aug 1992 16:29:47 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu


Okay, to start a new topic --

One of the things I find most aggrieving about having been tested as
very intelligent (99.5% percentile on CATTEL, SAT),  is that it just seems to
make anything less than a perfect performance seem a failure.  Having
grown up with my intelligence as my prime attribute at the same time that
my apathy and lack of focus has made me less than a stellar student has not
made for a combination conducive to a high self esteem.  One the one hand,
I'm smarter than 99.5% of the population.  On the other hand, that leaves
well over a million people in the United States smarter than me.

In my experience, on of the purposes of Mensa has been to serve as a
social and support group for people in this position.. I find that the
things I focus on, the things I think about (continuously) are rather
abstract and rather global in extent.  I find that I am always thinking
of the mechanics of intelligence, of the working of the brain, and suchlike
things.  But I also believe that I don't have the emotional strength and
discipline to be able to make a real contribution to the field.  So where
does that leave me?

I find that my propensity to continual thought enhances my
appreciation of the limitless complexity of the world, but does not
really help me to excel in achievement (and may in fact be somewhat
detrimental to my well-adjustment and/or "sanity").  My lack of
extraordinary achievement then haunts me (for I can always find
someone smarter and more successful) and I feel obligated to prove
myself through academics, which I do not find to be terribly easy.

Is it common in the experience of r.o.m to have this sort of an experience?

I find it very onerous, and one of the central Mensa experiences, and perhaps
one of the qualities of intelligence that is particularly well correlated with
Mensa membership is this continuity of thought and depth of consideration,
academic performance issues aside.

So, I'm not sure what kind of a response I'm looking for here.  I've got
a project due in 27 hours, and I felt like holding forth.

-- 
Jonathan Abbey                                 jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu
the university of texas at austin             "He's cleaning up his systems
computer science/math/psychology               to keep his nature pure" - Rush
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: AG Hotel sites
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:56:00 GMT

Re a number of comments along the lines of:

>Personally, for a number of years I've avoided Hyatts whenever possible.

Would this have anything to do with an irrational fear of 
collapsing walkways?  Just curious...
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Why these computer solutions?
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:03:00 GMT

The reason I'm posting these computer solutions to puzzlers is to emphasize
that times have changed.  The days when people could amuse each other with
simple arithmetical "brain teasers" are slipping away, since it's so easy
to throw a computer at the problem when the inputs are limited (e.g. to
single-digit integers).

Brain teasers will have to be more sophisticated - either closer to being
NP-complete, or involving a much larger number of potential solutions,
or having answers that are not easily verifiable as "correct" by
instinctive means, such as the infamous 3-door problem.

In olden times there was a favorite magician's trick wherein the conjuror
would purport to make a trumpet suspended in midair play a tune.  Such a
trick would never work in modern times, since the audience would assume
a sound recording was being used.  Similarly, I expect many classic
brain teasers to become obsolete as technology marches on.

Disclaimer:  what you would expect.

 - seb
From: psyline@psyline.nl (Theo Bogels)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Revenge sig
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:45:47 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: PsyLine * Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Can anyone (Member of Mensa) tell me anything about the revenge
sig, that was active in/from Maui/Hawaii? I can't find it in the
Int. Siglist any more.
Please reply by private email.
==Theo

--
psyline@psyline.nl (Theo Bogels)
PsyLine * Nijmegen * The Netherlands
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: glover@midnight.cray.com (Roger Glover)
Subject: Re: Daylenth
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:08:37 CDT

In article <1992Jul28.221522.25679@engage.pko.dec.com> moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com () writes:

M> There is a very slight decrease in the apparent force of gravity at the
M> equator compared to the poles due to centrifugal force of the earth's
M> rotation.

There is no such thing as centrifugal "force."  This is just a
convenient shorthand force which would have been required on an
unmoving object to cause the pressure identical to that caused by the
inertia on an object accelerating at an angle to its motion
(velocity).  The proper name for this imaginary force would be the
centrifugal "effect" (just as most physics texts refer to the
Coriolis "effect," instead of the archaic name, Coriolis "force.").


In article <1992Jul30.192000.18013@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) responds:

Pm> _Centripetal_ force, please!
Pm> 
Pm> (Just feeling pedantic).


In article <64711@hydra.gatech.EDU>, cegtitd@prism.gatech.EDU (Tim Dodd) responds to the Polymath:

TD> A true pedant would not use the term centripetal force, as that is just a
TD> convenient shorthand for the apparent effects of inertia.  There is no
TD> such force.
TD> 
TD> (Just feeling even more pedantic!)  :-)

Many a physics text would disagree with Mr. (Dr.?) Dodd's statements.
For reference, see "Mechanics" by Keith Simon (Addison-Wesley).  In
the third edition, page 17 discusses centripetal force.

Centripetal force is a "real" force.  In the case of an object at the
equator, the centripetal force is the small component of the
gravititional force, representing the force which would be required
to keep the object orbiting the Earth's center of gravity circularly
at the same distance and speed if the ground (or the weighing device)
wasn't there.  The ground (or the weighing device) exerts pressure
against the object sufficient to counteract the pressure from the
remainder of the gravitational force on the object (i.e., grav. force
MINUS centrip.  force).  The weighing device merely records the force
it uses to apply pressure against the object it is weighing.


Pendantics of the world, unite!  You have nothing to miss but the point!

Err, ... what was the point anyway?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Glover         DISCLAIMER HAIKU:  C R I may not
Cray Research, Inc.                     Share these opinions of mine.
                                        This is not my fault.

"I just found out that the brain is like a computer.  If that's true, then
there really aren't any stupid people.  They're just running DOS."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Bad Joke
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:36:42 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <Bszq1B.D8q@acsu.buffalo.edu>, blayda@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danger) writes:
> 
> 
> What are the chances of getting Mensa to support
> The Libertarian Party?

Zero.  Mensa does not support any political party
or have any opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Newsletter costs (was Re: Mensa national versus local)
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:20:01 GMT

In article <11Aug92014107@miracle.com> phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill) writes:
}hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
}>It appears neither of us is getting the other's page count right.  Two of
}>our pages (equivalent to four of yours) are redundant or unnecessary
}>information that could easily be eliminated without affecting the
}>usefulness of the calendar.  I distinctly recall you claiming 50 events
}>per month but didn't archive the post. 70 events is quite a bit more than
}>50 in this context.  BTW, our calendar is presented in a 3-column per page
}>format that wastes a lot of space.
}
}I don't think I'm getting the page count wrong, look at my last posting again.
}BTW, if you've ever done any typesetting, you will find that 3-column format
}does *NOT* waste space.  It often takes less.
}
}
}>See the posting by Ms. Pancake.  That's at least one small group running
}>under budget, so it can be done.
}
}I saw it.  I'm amazed.  But they found someone who does copies at the
}effective price of 2 cents a side.  Damn good price.
}>
}>Have you considered smaller type?
}
}We use 8 point, which is generally considered the SMALLEST readable size.

Ok, I give up.  You need more money from National to get out your
calendar.

This begins to sound like something that varies by region.  Maybe the
newsletter allowance should be based on average local printing costs
rather than a flat rate for the whole country.  It'll mean some research
and more bookkeeping, but that's what National's there for.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme)
Subject: Demise of honor programs in public high schools
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:07:02 GMT

The latest public school bandwagon seems to be "heterogeneous grouping",
where kids of all abilities are mixed into a class.  The claim is that
with ability grouping, the slower students are put into the slow
group and never have a chance to reach their potential.  (There is another
school of thought that look-say and whole language learning instead of
phonics is the reason why a lot of these students are slow, but that's
another topic.)

This is being implemented a new high school that includes my town, and is
also going into effect at a school in Alaska.  There is a marvelous article
on the subject over in misc.education. Every Mensan who benefited from
honors courses, was harmed by honors courses, or cares for some other
reason should hop over and take a look.

BTW, the flame level in misc.education is much lower than over here.  If you
respond, please try to behave yourself!  (He says, right after posting a
moderate flame in response to a press release from AFT condemning school
voucher programs.)

Things are fairly quiet over here lately.  Guess I'll post here an article
I posted there, that I wrote for our local paper.  Coming up right after this
one!
-- 
| A pride of lions               | Eric J Werme                 |
| A gaggle of geese              | 77 Tater St                  |
| An odd lot of programmers      | Mont Vernon NH  03057        |
| A Constitution of Libertarians | Phone: 603-673-3993          |
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who needs Geniuses?
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:51:38 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Spoiler

The common answer to this question is 9,2,2.
The flaw is that it is possible for two siblings to share the same
age and not be twins.  My birthday is the day before my elder brothers,
on that day we are both the same 'age'.  Knowing that there is an elder
daughter doesn't rule out the answer 6,6,1.
-- 

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Tue Aug 18 17:51:36 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Genius sperm bank
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:38:41 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Aug12.122321.2818@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>what would you support as the one attribute which human beings posses which
>should be identified as that which should be selected for refinement to its
>n'th degree?

The ability to juggle

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  The trouble with having an open mind is that people come along and |
|  put things in it.   {attribution? I nicked it from Readers Digest} |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Dorky Yellow Map Pin (was Re: Being ashamed of being in Mensa)
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:55:38 GMT

In article <199208140356.AA07440@admin.keh.utulsa.edu>, sya@admin.keh.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli) writes:
> 
> 
>   Perhaps the discussion should center around why the Dorky Yellow Map 
>   Pin is yellow.

[...]

>But why then does it have to be yellow?

Because the person who started it happened to have yellow ones in his desk.
If he had green ones, we'd be talking about LGMPs.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ehaas@IDA.ORG (eric haas)
Subject: Re: Dorky Yellow Map Pin (was Re: Being ashamed of being in Mensa)
Organization: IDA, Alexandria, VA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 17:37:39 GMT

Hello Mensans!

I was wonderring ... does anybody know the history behind the Dorky
Yello Map Pins?  Does anybody wear them (I just joined and haven't yet
attended a Mensa event, so I don't know)?  Did anybody EVER wear them?
Are they supposed to symbolize anything in particular?  What gives?!?

Eric E. Haas
From: edp@math.zko.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Daylenth
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:01:01 GMT
Reply-To: edp@math.zko.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Aug12.120838.10441@walter.cray.com>,
glover@midnight.cray.com (Roger Glover) writes:

>There is no such thing as centrifugal "force."  This is just a
>convenient shorthand force which would have been required on an
>unmoving object to cause the pressure identical to that caused by the
>inertia on an object accelerating at an angle to its motion
>(velocity).

Correction:  There is no centripetal force in an inertial reference
frame.  However, we should keep in mind that reference frames and forces
are all human creations that model the real world.  In general reference
frames, there are centripetal forces.  In one of the appendices to
_Physics_ by Haliday and Resnick, they give the mathematics for forces
in a rotating reference frame.  These forces include centripetal forces.
There is no _physical_ reason to prefer one reference frame over
another, and non-inertial frames are occasionally more useful in some
situations.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@alien.enet.dec.com
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Newsletter (and other) costs
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:29:59 GMT

In article <16bt28INN82c@network.ucsd.edu>, jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce) writes:
> 
> The San Diego MENSAN currently runs 28 8.5x11 pages (including the cover which
> is on the same stock as the inside pages).  Collating and stapling is done by
> volunteers by hand, though that's primarily for social purposes:  the "event"
> of putting together regularly gets 10-20 attendees, and seems to particularly
> attract new(er) members who are actually willing to work for the group.  The
> editors tell me that having it done by the printer would not increase costs
> significantly.  San Diego has an average of monthly membership of 1000-1100
> people, so around 1200 copies are mailed each month.

SFRM has a production run of almost 3,000 copies (membership is about 2,700),
and we have the printer collate and staple.  The monthly peel and stick party,
draws about a dozen people also.  I'd hate to have to fold and staple 3,000
copies in addition to sticking the labels on and then collating them for
mailing, with even as many as 20 people


> Budgeted 92-93 expenses outside of the newsletter are about $4.4K, and we're
> projecting a net deficit of about $1.2K.  In reality, both expenses and income
> are likely to be a somewhat lower than projected, and the deficit should also
> be slightly lower.  We're allowing the deficit spending since there was about
> a $4K surplus in the bank as of 6/30/92.  The board decided it was time to
> feed some of that back to the membership, primarily by producing a newsletter
> that's somewhat larger than we could otherwise afford.

I like that; it would be nice if more local groups that have surpluses gave some
of that money back to the membership in the form of services or larger
newsletters.

--Mike

PS  Tell Roxanne that I said "Hi."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: Stupid People
Keywords: crowds  
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:32:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.155939.17486@ncsu.edu>, gpowell@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Eugene Powell) writes:
|>  When our 'group' gets together, some friends want to avoid the topic
|> of politics. Now, some persons might think its stupid to talk about an
|> inflaming subject among friends. I think it is stupid for mature adults
|> to avoid a subject affecting everyone. Who is more stupid, me for
|> wanting to touch on a 'touchy' subject, or my friends who think I am too
|> stupid to talk about it w/o being extremist? Comments anyone? Should we
|> avoid pertinent topics just because we are afraid of offending someone,
|> or should we attempt to stimulate rationalization by bringing up
|> unpleasant, avoided, adult subject matter? One close friend assured me
|> she would be offended if I brought these things up.
|> 
Offense can be a likely consequence of political discussions, because 
many political issues are matters of personal beliefs - beliefs about 
which people can become very defensive.  Abortion is a prime example.
With each of the two parties in the U.S. taking sides on such issues,
those seeking to avoid bitter arguments will probably want to avoid
discussing politics with those whose views differ from their own.
"Rational" debate on political matters can indeed be difficult, much 
like discussing relious topics with those of varying beliefs.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....

"A man lives by believing something, not by debating and arguing about
many things."                                         - Thomas Carlyle
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans besides Isaac Asimov and Mel Lazarus, Chekov (ST)
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:00:07 GMT

In article <94140@bu.edu>, schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier) writes:
> 
> Besides the three guys (CHekhov from Star Trek that is Mel Lazarus draws
> the Momma cartoon) who else, who is famous, is in Mensa?

Don Pedersen (former president of Ford Motor Company), F. Lee Baily, Geena
Davis, Buckminster Fuller, Wyane Green, Richard Lederer, Sir Clive Sinclair
(Timex/Sinclair computers), Jean Auel, Adrian Kronaur (SP?) ("Good Morning
Vietnam") and (I forget his name, but he played Worf's human adoptive
father on ST: TNG)