HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish and Jewish nationalism
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:12:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: walter.1992Oct5.091212.26194


In article <1992Oct5.025745.6727@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.232059.9296@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de writes:
>> Think, Roger. Your argument can be reversed: whenever a Pole
>>would criticize the treatment of Palestinians in Israel and 
>>occupied territories, a Jew would say "but what about the Polish
>>rabid anti-Semitism?"
>
>It is interesting.
>
>So far, those Poles whom I have noticed to have expressed an opinion
>with regard to the Israel/Palestine question seem almost by reflex to
>assume that Israel is in the wrong.
>
>This despite the fact that the PLO and Hamas have these nasty habits of
>killing random Israeli women, children and men, seemingly every chance
>they get.
>
>It is an interesting view.
>
>I certainly hope that this is not representative of the Polish
>viewpoint on this issue.
>
>But a mention of antisemitism might not be out of line when confronted
>with such a reflex anti-Israeli point of view. After all, I would
>suspect that an antisemite would be quite well motivated to side with
>almost anyone against Israel.
>
>--Mark
>

I do not think, Mark, you are right. There are civil rights movements
in Israel that try to defend Palestinians. There are Jews in the US
that also try to do that. Do you want to say that all those people
and other nationalities that try to do that want to destroy Israel
or simply are doing that because are anti-Semites ? I think that
honest people, no matter of nationality, see that Israeli-Palestinian
conflict as conflict between opressors and victimized population.
There is no excuse such as occupation status to allow any human
right violation. That's the modern standard in international order.
And if you want examples of violations like that it certainly can be
showed. What bothers me however is that among Jews there is no
visible majority that could stand up and say that loudly that
current and traditional treatment of Palestinians is violation
of human rights indeed and works against , not for basic interest
of Israel. And it is also necesssary to understand that population
under occupation, without human rights being protected will always
try to defend with all accessible means. If we do not understand that
we would have to condemn all resistance movements that existed
in the history. Occupation is always occupation and it does not
excuse anything. The same way as alcoholism does not excuse any
wrongdoing.

A. Mazur

A. Mazur
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalya
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:52:10 GMT

hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>                                              However, when the
>Rabbis made the Takono for the fast they made it for the third
>since we cannot fast on Yom Tov.  Note that this is not like the
>case of Tisha B'Av falling out on Shabbos so we fast on the tenth
>(Sunday).  Rather the original takono was specifically for the
>third of tishrei.  There is a difference in that if someone has a
>bris on the tenth of Av which is the fast day, the father, the
>sandek, and the mohel must eat the seudah.  This does not apply to
>Tzom Gedaliah.

There is an interesting result of the postponement of this fast.  We
are generally more lenient in allowing one to escape the ravages of
fasts that have been moved to avoid their coinciding with Shabbat.
This fast, however, since its very takana incorporated a postponement,
is just as stringent, whether moved or not.  This case arises when Rosh
HaShannah begins on Thursday.

-Don Gertler
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Divorce  Was: Re: alzheimers disease
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:17:57 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Sep25.230020.14574@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <Bv3BHM.DJv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>>Again, what does the Sefer Torah say?  It says that if a man tires of a
>>woman, he cannot just kick her out or abandon her, but must give her a
>>document.  It does not say what should be done if he does not give the
>>document, whether due to malice or inability.  It also does not say what
>>should be done if the woman has "grounds for divorce."

>>I claim that the purpose of this sections was to remove one method, common
>>in those parts, for a man evading his responsibilities by just leaving the
>>marriage, and that a reasonable evaluation of the intent would allow a court
>>to grant a divorce even over the explicit opposition of the husband if the
>>conditions were appropriate.

>Not quite.  What was decided (by the Rabbinic courts) was that a woman
>could not divorce her husband, but if there were proper circumstances,
>she could have the court order her her husband to divorce her.

This is one example where the rabbis completely went awry, and is, in my
opinion, an example where the "Oral Law" must be a work of man.  The
entire Talmudic period occurred in one of the most male-dominated times,
even more so than the time of the Exodus.  

Here we have a clear case where the court ordering the husband to divorce 
her is asinine, as the husband is not in a position to make any decision.
As I have stated here repeatedly, any court which can order someone to 
deliver a document issued by the court must be capable of delivering that
document itself.  But no, they could not read the Torah sensibly and say
that the wording requires the man to give a document if he wished to 
deny his wife her rights, and presumably the court would have had to 
issue the document in his name if he merely absconded beyond its jurisdiction.

The selective use of literalness by the rabbis is quite fantastic.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:13:04 GMT

In article <raan.718375765@techunix.technion.ac.il> raan@techunix.technion.ac.il (Ran Ever-Hadani) writes:
>
>Word similarity between language A and B may be caused by A --> B,
>B --> A or C --> A, C --> B.  I would assume that for some of
>the examples given, the latter is the case, with C beeing Greek.

Or, C --> B, B --> A, which is probably the most common.  Example;  I was
informed by by Latin teacher in school that latin did not enter english
through the Roman conquest, but came later, indirectly from French, through
the Normon conquest.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: The two days of R'H and the shofar on Shabbos.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:32:04 GMT

In article <91314@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>No.  Elul for now is always 29 days.  The only months with leap days
>(ie, they are 29 or 30 days) are Cheshvan and Kislev.  Somewhere there
>is a Jewish version of "30 days hath September"--don't ask me!
  Ok, this means that at present we do what they did in the past; the
  two days following Elul 29 are Rosh Hashana. So, now I don't follow
  why Tishrei isn't extra long in those years when Elul "should" have
  30 days.
From: gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: correct logic (was: On Polish and Jewish nationalism)
Date: 5 Oct 92 07:24:23 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Earlier, someone said that anti-Semite's have more frequent anti-Israeli
feelings than non-anti-Semites.  But to infer from this that an anti-Israeli
comments are indicative of anti-Semitic feelings too, is illogical.  It simply
cannot be implied.  To use an example, say we have the statements: 
1) Some Notre Dame fans are anti-Miami
2) FSU fans are more frequently anti-Miami than anyone else
The conclusion that:
3) Someone who is anti-Miami is probably an FSU fan
is incorrect.  An anti-Israeli post could come from someone anti-Semitic, but
it need not.  To take it further, an anti-Zionist who is an Orthodox Jew could
post a very anti-Israeli message (possibly), but would this mean that he is 
anti-Semite?  The same logic as from above could lead someone to say that:
some Jews are anti-Polish, therefore, an anti-Polish remark more likely comes
from a Jew than from a non-Jew.  This too would be wrong, but it uses incorrect
logic, just as the other statement does.
-- 
BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6390a
Internet: gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ezekiel
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:00:48 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

M. Cherbonnier:

About Ezekiel

1) Read Erich von Daniken's trash "The Ancient Astronauts," "Chariots
of the Gods," etc. for the UFOlogists interpretation.

2) Prepare yourself for a lifetime of study in Kabbalah -- Jewish mystics
and other rabbis have been trying to understand Ma'aseh Merkavah (the
incident of the chariot) for thousands of years.

3) I think Maimonides discusses it in some fashion in his Guide for the
Perplexed, part II or III.  That's a fairly dense book, and takes several
weeks to read.

4) If you know Hebrew already, in most Hebrew Bibles with commentary, there
is a lengthy commentary by Rabbi Elijah of Vilna, which tries to explain it.

Ezekiel is the most difficult to understand book of the Bible.  Only one rabbi
in Talmudic times was said to have understood it, and he burned 300 barrels of
oil in his lamp to understand it, that's how long it took.  If he had not
succeeded in understanding it, it would not have been included in the canon,
as it would have been absolutely impossible to understand.

May you be sealed in the Book of Life, and may you succeed in your endeavours.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 20:49:37 GMT

In article <91558@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:
>Few threads posted here 
>notably Sam Saal's and Mark Steinberg's allow me to claim, that
>ignorance is not exclusively a Polish sin.

Who said it was?

I appreciate the enlightenment, in any case.

One of the interesting features of this discussion is how complex an
issue this sort of hatred really is.

The Palestinian analogies are still way out of line. I should not have
responded in haste to such obvious flame bait.


--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:34:50 GMT

Here are some more:

 1. moot (e.g., "the issue is moot") ==>  MAVET 
 2. degree ==> DARGAH
 3. cholera ==> CHOLI  RA :
         _ _ __       _ |_  _ ____
         | |   |      |   | |  | |
        _|/    |         /  |  | |

   A propos: Is it a sign -- in the dictionary, cholera comes right
	     after  Cholent  :-) :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
           |_  ___     ____ _ _ _
 Have a      | , /     |  | |  \|
            /  |       |__| | __\

       __  __   _   __     __  ,__  _ __  ____     __  ,__  __
 and     |   |  | | `|       | |  | | | |  | |       | |  |  |
       | | __|_ | |__|     | | | _|  _| |  | |       | | _| /|


-- Boaz

===============================================================================
  _              _            __         __ ___  _ _   __ ___    ____      ___
 /_) _  _  __   /_) _   __ __ _/    o     |   |   \| __ |   |     /    \ |   |
/__)(_)(_|__/  /__)(_'_/ /   /__\/_(        __|_ __\    | __|_     \  __\| __|_
          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@crl.dec.com>           Home: (617) 494-1279  <boaz@mit.edu>
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Keywords: "The Protocols" ; Writing polish in scj
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:19:11 GMT

d89-mor@eval.nada.kth.se (Monika Orski) writes:

>In article <matthew.717472103@munna>, matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:

>|> >hotel next to a church. The church had a bookshop. In the window of this bookshop
>|> >I noticed "The Protocols of the Elders of Sion" (correct english name?) in polish.

>|> What was the content of the book you mention? Did you read it? Or do
>|> you habitually judge books by their covers?

>This book is a well-known falsificate, "proving" that the jews are trying to 
>gain world hegemony. It was originally produced in Russia in the 19th century and has been used by anti-semites ever since. Maybe I confused you by not being sure about the correct english title. (The polish title - sorry about my spelling - is "Protokul mendrcow Siona".)
>  Yes, I have read it (but not in Polish). Have you?

I have never read it; I never even heared about it.


MB
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hazzanut (was Re: Synagogue Financing)
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:56:11 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Sep30.134753.29119@tudorct.com> shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff) writes:

> If the Hazzan says this, we stop him immediately and  replace him.  :-)

What about his contract?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: altman@RIGEL.LCS.MIT.EDU (Arthur Altman)
Subject: Bill Clinton's Jewish Advisors
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:03:27 GMT

My mother-in-law is visiting us for the Holidays from Austin, TX.  She
says that she has heard that some in Texas are "whispering" about the
fact that Bill Clinton has several prominent advisors who are Jewish.
Presumably there are anti-semites who have seized on this, for whatever
bad purposes.  This is the first I have heard of this, but I live in a
comparatively sheltered part of the country/state/city.  

So, as a reality check: Has anyone else out there on the net heard about
this being an issue in their part of the country?  Does anyone think
that there is enough latent anti-semitism out there that this would
actually matter to the election?

A happy, healthy, and sweet New Year to everyone,

Arthur Altman
altman@abp.lcs.mit.edu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:33:13 GMT

In article <RLK.92Oct2173353@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

Quoting my statement that ran:
>   The second reason may be more compelling, and is rooted in biology
>   (e.g., Richard Dawkins "Selfish Gene") and anthropology (e.g., the
>   cultural materialism of Marvin Harris).  Basically, if "valuing"
>   Judaism means anything, it means ensuring the Judaism continues.
>   Historically, intermarriage has, in the overwhelming majority of 
>   cases, meant that the children or grandchildren will no longer identify
>   themselves as Jews.  Those who value Judaism will thus oppose
>   intermarriage.  Those who do not value Judaism (or who hold other
>   values to be over-riding) will find no objection to intermarriage.
>
>Let's leave biology out of it.  Judaism is not a genetic trait, but
>rather a religion/tradition, and as such it's passed by conscious
>decision.

It's biological only by analogy.  Just as reproductive fitness is
the major (only?) property important for the survival of a gene,
so is cross-generational transmission the minimal criterion for the
success of a religion.  No cross-generational transmssion, and the
religion disappears.


>I'm going to annoy people here (as if I haven't already) with a couple
>of other comments:
>
>1)  Inbreeding tends to weaken the line, hybridizing strengthens it (I'm
>using this in the same sense as Eliot).

Yes, but too much hybridizing and the original genes may disappear
completely, and the species will no longer be identifiable.

>2)  I don't really know how to say this without *really* offending
>someone, but Judaism should be able to survive even if some people do
>intermarry.

Several comments:

1. Yeah, but not if too many people intermarry.

2. Yeah, but to  the extent that we care about Jews and Judaism,
   we should be pained if even one person intermarries.  (By
   analogy, humanity will survive if a person is murdered ...)

3. What could be offensive about what you wrote?




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: 9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Hebrew script on the Net [was Re: Hebrew origin of some English words]
Summary: Semitic languages on the Net.
Keywords: Hebrew script, Net
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:36:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston-Downtown
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41A
X-Lunar-Date: 6 days, 13 hours, 58 minutes since the new moon

In article <1992Oct5.012828.24658@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, boaz@lcs.mit.edu writes...
[...]
>4. auspice: ( AUSHPEZIN )
>       _  _ ___  __  _ _ _  _ \ |
>        | |  |  |_.| | | | .| |\|
>        |    |  ___| |/_/   | | \
>        |
> 
[...]

Hello

Is there an Hebrew editor/mailer/news reader in use on some site on the Net ??

> Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@crl.dec.com>           Home: (617) 494-1279  <boaz@mit.edu>

alex khalil alex@dt.uh.edu
U. of Houston-Downtown

P.S.: I am aware of a mixed solution used in some academic sites in Israel. 
Namely VMS/ULTRIX + Pathworks for DOS + Kermit + EGA/VGA on a PC clone.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:54:47 CDT

In article <1992Oct2.143334.16141@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>#
>#  I believe that the same is true about Israel.  I can live there
>#for ages and it won't make me a Jew.
>
>No, but it will make you an Israeli.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>

Did Israel accept people of whatever background or religion as Poland did
through ages ? In Poland there was a rule, that whoever gets on Polish
soil, free is. What about assimiliation of Palestinians ?

A. Mazur
From: ajin (Am. Jewish Inf. Network)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: AJIN Mission Statement
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:06:38 GMT
Reply-To: <ajin (Am. Jewish Inf. Network)>
Organization: Nysernet
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org

Our announcement of the adoption of a mission statement by the AJIN
board of directors inadvertantly went out under the subject "Test with
this Subject."  I (Alan Stein) hope this didn't cause too much
confusion.  If anyone accidentally erased the message before reading
it and would like another copy, please send a message to that effect
to me at astein@israel.nysernet.org.

Once again, the officers and board of directors of AJIN wish everyone


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American Jewish Information Network     ajin@israel.nysernet.org

President

Alan Stein                              astein@israel.nysernet.org

Vice Presidents

Rachel Bork Dunaief                     rdunaief@israel.nysernet.org
Jerry Krupnick                          krupnick@israel.nysernet.org
Chaim Dworkin                           dworkin@israel.nysernet.org

Board of Directors

Marty Block                             72617.3071@compuserve.com
Avi Feldblum                            avi_feldblum@att.com
Alan Gallatin                           alan@nysernet.org
Richard Mandelbaum                      rma@poly.edu
Jeff Markel                             72561.1526@compuserve.com
Myra Shoub Nelson                       nelson@acfcluster.nyu.edu
Aaron Schmiedel                         aaron@kesher.lonestar.org
Alan Sobel                              sobel@boulder.colorado.edu
Mark Steinberger                        mark@sarah.albany.edu
Steve Stone                             73026.772@compuserve.com
Jonathan Woocher                        72461.1762@compuserve.com
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Date: 4 Oct 92 11:27:58 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct2.070524.4767@javelin.sim.es.com>
JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) writes:


>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

 How does John Kennedy   fail to be the messiah?
 How does Marlyn Monrow  fail to be the messiah?
 How does Julius Ceasar  fail to be the messiah?
 How does Heydy (Swis.)  fail to be the messiah?
 How does Marco Polo     fail to be the messiah?
 How does Johny Walker   fail to be the messiah?
 How does Napoleon Bonaparte fail to be the messiah?
 How does Magic Johnson  fail to be the messiah?

 How does Ching Ming of the farm Ding at China  fail to be the messiah?

 I never hearred about that Ching Ming , but the possibility someone
like that ever existed is very high, So who do we  know the fact that
that person is  not the mesaya?