From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: CONFUSIONS ABOUT MACEDONIA (was: Bulgarian-Greek relations/minorities)
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:04:08 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <94830@bu.edu> buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis) writes:

[deleted]

>(1)	Correct. 
>	The liberation movement in the period before 1912 in Turkey was 
>	united and called IMORO (BMOPO) where the third "O" stands for 
>	Odrin (Edirne, Adrianople) - (Internal Macedono-Odrin Revolutionary 
>	Organization).

Correct. However, going into few more details, we can see that the movement
for liberation of Macedonia had 2 major organizations - the Internal and
the Central. The Internal (?? lead by Dame Gruev and/or Sarafov) was inside
Macedonia and the Central - in Sofia. As far as I remember they united into
one at some stage - ? 1906 ?.

>	The idea behind this united movement was not because Macedonians
>	live around Ordrin (Adrianople) in Thrace, but it was created to 
>	help the fight for the freedom of ALL the unliberated Bulgarians 
>	in Turkey.

Absolutely true. The character of the movement for independent Macedonia
was entirely Bulgarian. Even many years later it was such. When reading
letters by Macedonian organizations about human right abuses and not
implementating the Treaty on the Protection of National Minorities - the
complaints were directed towards the governments in Belgrade and Athens
only !!! The letters pledged for united Macedonia, which includes the Pirin
Macedonia (which is in Bulgaria), but when mentioning the treatment of
national minorities, the criticism is directed towards Serbia and Greece
only. Even more - they explicitly complain about the closing of BULGARIAN
schools and churches.

>	Odrin, Thrace and Macedonia region were populated by Bulgarians
>	at the time, and that was the idea behind the joined organization. 

When one reads documents by those organizations, he can observe that they
are written in pure Bulgarian.

>(2)	By supporting the Yugoslav idea of renaming the Macedonian Bulgarians
>	into Slavs, and later Macedonians, Greece was DOING EXACTLY THE
>	SAME thing for which she is acusing now Tito.

However, instead of Macedonians, they called the Macedonian Bulgarians
"Slavs" or "bilingual Greeks". The crux of the matter is the same, however.

>	Hence, Greece has no right to complain about Macedonian nation and
>	the language, since she (Greece) helped immensely in that by 
>	supporting the Serbian and Yugoslav view since 1912. 

The real debulgarization (and creating different from Bulgarian
consciousness) started later - after WWI. The first attempts for
"Macedonizing" (as people couldnt be convinced that they are South Serbs)
started after 1920 - in the schools of Yugoslavia.

>	Acctualy, Greece (as any other country) was supporting their own 
>	interest, which at the time (as judged by the Greek Government) was 
>	not to have united Bulgaria on the North, but rather a common border 
>	with Serbia.

It's because before the Balkan wars Bulgaria was far more developed, strong
and with the strongest, and best equipped army on the Balkans. This was not
so after WWI, but the fear from Bulgaria and the local Bulgarian population
remained.

>                   If the price for that was changing the consciusness of 
>	several milion people by making them first Serbian, and then 
>	Macedonian, it was fine for Greece, as long it was under control.

Nothing to be added.

>	Once Republic of Macedonia become independent of Belgrade, it started 
>	to represent a problem to the Greek government.

I'm not sure that there is a real problem. Macedonians will come in turns
with the realities of the past and the present (during the struggle for
economic survival). On it's turn, the new YU (or Serbia) may be no longer
protected and so much supported by it's Western allies, which did so for
such a long time because of Tito's relations with the USSR.

>	When are the Greeks going to realize that THEY HAVE CONTRIBUTED
>	TO THE MACEDONIAN CONFUSION IMMENSELY ? It's not just Tito,
>	or King Alexander and the Serbian policy, but the Greek 
>	"slavo-macedonian" aswell.

You mean the "Slavs" or the "bilingual Greeks"?

>>It is ironic that the Skopians want
>>to consider Thessaloniki as the capital of a future united Macedonia, a city 
>>always foreign to them. Samuil, Simeon, Stefan Dusan, etc, never conquered 
>>the city. 
>
>
>The idea of free and independent Macedonia is older than the Socialist 
>Republic of Macedonia, and Yugoslavia. When nowdays are made claims 
>like this they, of course, sound rediculous. 

Absolutely true. There are tons of documents about independent Macedonia since
the end of the last century. Never ever read objections like the one which
are said now. However, the true objections towards independent Macedonia in
the past were based on the fear that becoming independent, Macedonia would
have united with Bulgaria (which was not certain at all). It's interesting to 
read that the how movement for independence had a real Bulgarian character but
so many Bulgarian Macedonians wanted to livew in an autonomous or
completely independent country - Macedonia. I can't see anything
wrong in that - there are so many different states in the world using the
same language, and the people having a common ethnic and cultural past.

>But, independent Macedonia at the end of the last century and at the begining 
>of this one, was imagined as a country of mixed population, like Switzerland, 
>not as an exclusively Slavic state, as you think. In a state like that, 
>Salonika would have been the capital, being the largest city, and the main 
>port of Macedonia. 

Correct.

>This old idea, of course, becomes rediculous nowdays when put in the framework
>of a whole united Macedonia under the dominance of one Macedonian nation and
>the government of Skopje.

Also very much correct.

>The original idea behind this is very well explained in Ivan Mihailoff's book 
>"Macedonia: The Switzerland of the Balkans" that I recently posted (published
>in the U.S. some fifty years ago). 

But maybe few read it :-(.


>	Regards,
>		Lou

Likewise

Luben

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Let us not allow splits and splintering to frighten us. It is, indeed, a
pity, but what can we do, since we are Bulgarians and all suffer from one
common disease"
				Gotse Delchev
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8184 soc.culture.bulgaria:1253