HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sedergre@valt.Helsinki.FI (JARI SEDERGREN (COMM))
Subject: Re: Finnish inferiority complex? (Was: Karelians...)
Organization: University of Helsinki, Faculty of Social Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:50:45 GMT

DON'T WASTE TIME IF YOU DON'T LIKE FLAMING:

In article joheko@jyu.fi (Jonne Henrikki Kolima) "writes":

>>FLAMES ON:
>>Hope I don't have to read this kind of pure shit with my name on it ever
>>again. It was stupid to write that... (stuff deleted)
>>If Mr. Kolima has something to say to me, 
>>please, do it in personal letter. 
>>
>>Jari Sedergren
>>University of Helsinki

>Sorry, I don't send E-mail to dickheads.  It's not a habit of mine.  
You don't have habits at all! 	

>You should try alt.send.me.mail.i.am.a.moron.  
Isn't joheko@jyu.fi alias to that?

>And I'll write the name 'Jari' in any kind of pure shit I want.  
Hey, this independent young talent seems to have willpower!

>Jari Jari JARI JAAAAARI!
Is it Nyk{s-Tarzan calling? He is in troubles with monkeys, again!  

>See?  
Me see, You see?

>But I can't help wondering your violent reaction over this matter. 
Wondering is something what suits you very well. Keep it on!
>Perhaps I touched a tender spot?  
Maybe I should spot you some points more, you spotted crake.

>Oh well, what can you except from a person who has chosen to study 
>communication 
Seriously speaking - you need schooling in these things as it was
expected by your exceptional behavior earlier! 

>(read: there really isn't anything easier in this planet than studying 
>talking and writing but to get it approved as an academic science we have 
>call it by some glorious name hmmmmm wait a minute HEY how about 
>communication yeah that sounds great allright that's cool hope nobody finds 
>out what we're actually doing!).                                       
>Jonne "Jari" Kolima

It looks to me that we have here more gifted students. Or maybe you are
only an exception.

Jari Sedergren
Historian
University of Helsinki

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Finnish inferiority complex? (Was: Karelians...)
Organization: Norwegian Inst. of Tech./University of Trondheim, Trondheim,
	Norway
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:12:09

>>>>> On Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:17:27 GMT, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) said:

> I am VERY PROUD of being in a news-group which is so full of intelligent
> and smart persons! An veeery happy about that! 

> And I am VERY PROUD of an achievent, I have got some
> life in this boring swedish-norwegian-danish discussion group...

> ..."what is the reciepe of a kanelbulle,is falukorv good for the health,
>  how is the wheather today in Gronkoping..." and things like that...

> It is veeeery, veeeery, veeeery boooooooooooooooooooooooring.

Heeey! I agree that the Swedes and Danes are oh-so-sensible and
boring, but it's pretty easy to breathe some life into us Norskies.

Just say something in the vein of "whaling should banned", "seals are
cute, Norwegians are evil", having a Dane saying something like "the
old colonies are oh-so-charming", aaaaand weee're off!! :-)

Sore spots? Nah,... whatever makes you think that? :-)

Don't say as if it is exactly interesting to foreigners but it sure
gets the adrenaline of Norwegians flowing.

- Steinar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: larsent@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LARSEN  TORE HOIVAAG)
Subject: Re: 100 secrets about nude beaches
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:29:39 GMT

engan@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.201825.2522@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, c_snet@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>> Hello folks!!!!!
>> I'm a exchange-student living in Nacogdoches/Texas and I wonder  
>> if anybody can tell me how to find E-mail adresses to teacher-schools
>> or "H0YSKOLER" in Norway. I just neeeeeeed to get the adress to
>> Alta Laerer-Hoyskole!!! If you have any good jokes about Sweeds you are
>> also welcome to write me, or if you are a exchange-student, or if you
>> have anything at all you want to share with me, write me!!!!
>> :-)
>>

 Just use a Netfind-search. We have one hear at Boulder: bruno.cs.colorado.edu
 Login: Netfind

 If you ever go to Northern-Norway give me a call.

 Tore:)

>What's this, jokes about Swedes. You must mean jokes about Norwegians.
>Like : - Do you know how to destroy a Norwegian submarine?
>       - No.
>       - Just dive down to it and knock on the door...

>Ha' det!
>Tomas.
>>

GOD this sweds are funny!

NOT!!!!!

larsent@ucsu.colorado.edu
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:08:54 GMT

In article <RIIALI.93Jan22122124@kaisa.it.lut.fi>, riiali@lut.fi (Beke) writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.182522.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi 
(Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:
> 
> ...<some lines deleted>..
> 
>    Right, there is no logical necessity to hold forever the existing
>    treaties! But in Finland's case, it's prudent politics. In this
>    respect I think that peace, freedom and prosperity are more important
>    values than justice. Returning Karelia to Finland might be just, but
>    it is not accepted by the Russian government. And IF it was accepted,
>    the majority population in Karelia, Russians, would pose us some problems 
>    (And the creation of infrastructure and things like that). It would be
>    a mess.
> 
>    But the most important thing is that Russia will always be against
>    the returning because the Russian border is contested in numerous places.
>    Accordingly, this will create numerous conflicts in the near future.
> 
>    When we have a mutually recognized peacy treaty with (Soviet) Russians
>    - the Paris peace treaty of 1947 - we should keep it holy! For example,
>    the Estonians are not that lucky.
> 
>    Russia might break down, but our independence is secured by the
>    following facts:
> 
>    (1) The Finnish-Russian border is not a contested one.
>    (2) There is no considerable Russian minority in Finland that could
>        be drawn to a conflict or to a civil war.
> 
>    Re-annexation of Karelia would change both these security guarantees.
>    Therefore, demanding it is unpatriotic indeed.
> 
> 
>    - Tapani Hietaniemi
>      a son of a Karelian refugee
> 
> 
> Didn`t Finnish goverment state two years ago that most parts of Paris 
> peace treaty (1947) are no more valid. All military resrictions (except
> nukes) was dropped. So that treaty is not anymore holy.

Oh god, not the MOST parts, the minor (rather unimportant) parts you 
mentioned. Still, we should keep the rest holy, according to my opinion.
Because of two reasons:

(1) There is no possibility whatsoever to negotiate a new peace treaty
    with Russia that would include the returning of Karelia.

(2) If the government of Finland started demanding a new peace treaty,
    it might be fatal for our security interests in the very near future.

Fortunately, I can't imagine any forthcoming Finnish government demanding
that. Of course, it's a free country (after two generations of succesful
Realpolitik) and any individual can claim anything, even the annexation of
Siberia to Finland.

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:25:22 GMT

In article <JANERIC.93Jan21132446@bellman.control.lth.se>, 
janeric@control.lth.se (Jan Eric Larsson) writes:
> 
> Jari Sedergren writes:
> 
>>In this world there are many places which have been occupied many
>>times by different powers. Sortavala is one of those places. People
>>living now in Sortavala cannot be accused about what happened in II
>>World War. In that war 1941-1944 Finland fought with fascist Germany
>>against SU. Finland changed side only after losing the war! So Russian
>>claims of that area are unfortunately justified (this time by war),
>>too.
> 
> Well, I don't think it is so simple. The Soviet Union doesn't exist
> anymore, (at least not formally), and the Russian Parliament has
> declared that everything that happened internationally during the time
> of Stalin was illegal.
> 
> Of course it is hard to tell what this means, and what the practical
> consequences will be, but at least it isn't obvious that all peace
> treatises based on the World War II must stand forever.


Right, there is no logical necessity to hold forever the existing
treaties! But in Finland's case, it's prudent politics. In this
respect I think that peace, freedom and prosperity are more important
values than justice. Returning Karelia to Finland might be just, but
it is not accepted by the Russian government. And IF it was accepted,
the majority population in Karelia, Russians, would pose us some problems 
(And the creation of infrastructure and things like that). It would be
a mess.

But the most important thing is that Russia will always be against
the returning because the Russian border is contested in numerous places.
Accordingly, this will create numerous conflicts in the near future.

When we have a mutually recognized peacy treaty with (Soviet) Russians
- the Paris peace treaty of 1947 - we should keep it holy! For example,
the Estonians are not that lucky.

Russia might break down, but our independence is secured by the
following facts:

(1) The Finnish-Russian border is not a contested one.
(2) There is no considerable Russian minority in Finland that could
    be drawn to a conflict or to a civil war.

Re-annexation of Karelia would change both these security guarantees.
Therefore, demanding it is unpatriotic indeed.


- Tapani Hietaniemi
  a son of a Karelian refugee
From: c_snet@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Snakk Norsk !!!!
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:20:43 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Hallo, er det noen der ute som vil skrvie noe paa norsk til en stakkars liten
gutt i Texas ?? Svaert trengende KNUT
From: skronkvi@aton.abo.fi (Stefan Kronkvist INF)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Whales vs. pigs part x
Date: 21 Jan 1993 07:11:21 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Fridrik Skulason frisk@complex.is writes

>Well, what would make the average whale-life more important than, say...the
>average pig life ?

Well,if there were as few pigs left as there are whales I guess the pig
would also be protected. 

On the other hand,if there were as many whales as there are pigs,i guess it 
would be ok to hunt them too.

If you let the whales recover a couple of years there may become enough of
them to allow some hunting,but if you kill them all now you wont have 
anything to hunt tomorrow.


skronkvi@aton.abo.fi

"-Why is gold more worth than shit? Simply because there is more shit in the
  world than there is gold."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen)
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:37:42 GMT

hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:
>Jarmo, you silly fascist revanchist:  Finland's claims to Petsamo are 
>extremely tenuous.  The area was given to Finland by the Dorpat treaty in 
>1921 (or was it 20?) just so Finland could have an outlet to the Arctic Sea

And Finland gave to Russia the communes of Repola and Poraj{rvi and
part of her territorial waters on the Karelian Isthmus, and dismantled
the Ino coastal artillery batteries.


>before that, Finland had no claims to the area whatsoever.

The Czars promised Petsamo to Finland as compensation for the land on
Ino, Karelian Isthmus, on which the Russians built the coastal
artillery batteries. The Czars had the batteries build but didn't give
Petsamo to Finland.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Norwegian whalers have the right to live!
Organization: Norwegian Inst. of Tech./University of Trondheim, Trondheim,
	Norway
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:59:20


> eivindt@colargol.edb.tih.no (Eivind Tagseth) writes:
>:     [..] there is only 1 single whale left here on earth.

> ?? Ahm, all others are married?

> Wasn't there a movie called something like: "Single white free whale"

Yep Moby Dick. Ol' Moby was male tho' so we'll have to hope the Human
was female. Wouldn't like want to have anything unnatural going on.
From: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: 24 Jan 93 10:55:48 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>Like Palestine.

>Besides here is a super-power the one which holds the areas. With the
>same argument we should demand the palestinians not fooling around
>and take an example of the karelians.
>jr

I think that Sweden should start negotiations with Russia
to reclaim Finland. I think that we even would be able to
carve away a piece of Karelia and put somewhere outside 
Libya or some other democracy , where our all-finnish hero 
could show the world how a country *really* should be governed.

-Henrik Jonsson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: etxmow@garboc29.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Subject: Re: Beaches
Organization: Ericsson
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:16:44 GMT

evans@ece.arizona.edu (Glen Evans) writes:


>Where are the nude beaches in the nordic countries?
>(In the summer of course)

   Nowhere and everywhere, which means that  since the Nordic countries
   are sparsely populated you may enjoy the Scandinavian summer
   in your birthday suit almost everywhere without disturbing anyone.
   Actually I know they do it almost in the center of Stockholm
   (Laangholmen). IMHO this is one of the advantages of living here -
   the relaxed attitude to nudity.

   The only "official" nude beach I know of is the one at Lake
   Magelungen near Farsta in the southern suburbs of Stockholm.
   It was opened a few years back but since it is official and
   therefore well-known it happens sometimes that people, or to be
   more specific men of non-Nordic descent, come to gawk.
   The people at the beach are mostly families with small children,
   elderly couples and single men.

   If I want to swim and tan naked I usually go to Svaardso near
   Saltsjoebaden in the Stockholm archipelago. There on a stretch
   of ca 1 km rocky cliffs you'll find a more mixed "audience" than
   that of Aagesta (Lake Magelungen). There are more young couples,
   women and gay couples there than at Aagesta. There are not so many
   families with real small children there since the beach is not so
   good for small children. My favourite spot lies on the western end
   of this stretch, it is a kind of small peninsula which is faced
   southwards so you'll have sun a long time and the water on one side
   is deep enough to head-dive into and the rock is shaped so that it is
   easy to get up again. Add to that that there is nice grass on one
   spot there (you'll have that place if you're early!). Note that 
   Svaardso is not an official nude beach, however it is nude by default
   that is most people there prefer to tan without swimsuits.

   How to get there:

	 AAgesta: Take the metro to Farsta strand, walk south across
	 the bridge over Lake Magelungen, turn left after the bridge
	 follow the road along the golf course and then left again.
	 Distance to walk: 1.5 km (square H2 page 51 in the Stockholm
	 phone directory)

	 Svaardsoen: Take "Saltsjoebanan" to station Solsidan (which
	 means "the sunny side" BTW) take a bus or walk east ca 2.5 km
	 towards Aelgoe, then turn right just before Aelgoe. 



	 Mats Winberg
	 Stockholm, Sweden
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:00:58 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1993Jan22.140131.8430@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

> Like Palestine.

The Palestinian and Karelian question do not have much in common. The
situation of the Silesian Germans ("vertriebene Schlesiendeutschen") 
resembles most of the situation of the Karelian Finns.

No intifada. No heroism. No UN resolutions. Just "Unbehagen".

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: sedergre@valt.Helsinki.FI (JARI SEDERGREN (COMM))
Subject: Re: Karelians the palestinians of the north
Organization: University of Helsinki, Faculty of Social Sciences
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:43:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.072354.14990@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>Jorma M{ntyl{ (tijoma@uta.fi) wrote:
>: PS.  Thanks to Mr. Sedergren of sending detailed information about who 
>:      started the war in 1941, and how it was done.
>: 
>It was very informative but still my Encyclopedia writes, 26.6.41 SU
>bombed 15 places in Finland. Finnish governement announced that Finland
>is again in a war against SU. Source:Tietoj{tti, Gummerus.

I wrote about military operations carried on between 22th and 25th of June.
These operations can be divided into three groups (only examples):
1) Finnish military operations against Soviet Union, planned earlier in
   spring with Germany.
	- mining the coast of Estonia
	- sending guerillas against Belamor Channel (Stalin's Channel)
	  Operation Schiffaren, 16 men from department Marttinen of
	  military intelligence. (Because there were no war, no guns and
	  military clothes were on men. They flied to Russia by German
	  aeroplane starting from Kajaani (22th of June, 2200)
	- three flights to Soviet Union for planning the "Hiitola attack"
	  and "Sortavala attack".
	- Russian aeroplane crashed to Finland 24th of June in Pelling
	  near to Porvoo (Borg}). Aeroplane was taken as it was war and
	  men were prisoned (not helped to travel back to Russia!) 
		
2) German military operations with Finnish military against Soviet Union.
	- laying mines to Kronstadt
	- Germans occupied Petsamo (Petsanga area) so that they crossed the
	  Finnish border 2.30 am. (22th of June), half an hour earlier than 
	  troops in Middle-Europe started. (Operation Renntier). Operation
	  was lead by Falkenhorst from German HQ in Rovaniemi!
	
3) German operations against Soviet Union starting from Finnish territory.
	- intelligence operations in Salla (against Finnish orders)

It was true Finland announced that Finland is in war, Finland did not
declare war. PM  J. Rangell did not mention anything about neutrality in
his speech to Finnish Parliament 25th of June. It was decided in
Parliament that Finland was in war. At present were 101 MP's from 200.

>Jari Sedergren is certainly correct, on the both sides were 
>preparation for the war done. The Russians lost their nerves first and 
>attacked over the border.
Finland and Germany attacked together at the very beginning. Russians
did the same as quickly as possible.

>Mr. Sedergren described the preparations for the war and indeed quite
>in detail on Finnish side. Not on a Russian side. We have no records of it.
>Just 15 places/towns were bombed in Finland, not in Russia.
>That is the difference.

Is Mr. Ryyti saying that these were different Germans who were bombing
in Middle-Europe compared to Germans who bombed from Finnish territory?
By the way, Soviet Union lost more lives trying to bomb those 15 towns in 
Finland than people of those towns! Our luck!

>Regards,
>jarmo

Jari Sedergren
Dep. of Communication
University of Helsinki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Dark Norwegians (Was: N => E => P)
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:22:54 GMT
 <1993Jan22.045636.7922@chpc.utexas.edu>  
 <STEINARB.93Jan22181522@villtind.idt.unit.no>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <STEINARB.93Jan22181522@villtind.idt.unit.no>
steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang) writes:

> > In article <4942.312.uupcb@thcave.no> kjetil.lenes@thcave.no (Kjetil Lenes) writes:
> 
> >> And come to Norway and look for yourself: At the western coast
> >> dark/black hair and brown eyes are quite common.
> 
> >>> To which, cmiy565@chpc.utexas.edu (Dean) replies:
> 
> > Interesting. I wonder if there is a correlation with the so called
> > 'black irish'. Who must, I assume be pigmentally distinct from a 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > very standard average.
> 
> If you mean "do they differ noticeably from the average", the answer
> is "not really". I've often heard it commented by "furriners" that
> they were surprised at how dark the average Norwegians were, in
> particular when compeared with swedes.
> 
> I guess theis goes for skin complexion mostly, the average haircolor,
> is a dark more-or-less blondish thing, and blue eyes are predominant
> (which, taking in account that blue eyes are recessive, kinda makes
> you wonder...:-)
> 
> - Steinar

I believe the 'Black Irish' are people who came from Spain at the time
of the Spanish Armada -- they couldn't get back to Spain because their
ships were all destroyed, and they certainly couldn't go to England!  I
have a friend who's of almost entirely Irish descent (the other 1/32 is
Dutch) and yet his entire family has dark hair and brown eyes.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have realized it would be bad vodka when all the label said
was 'Russian Vodka'."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: cmiy565@chpc.utexas.edu (Dean)
Subject: Re: N => E => P
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 04:56:36 GMT

In article <4942.312.uupcb@thcave.no> kjetil.lenes@thcave.no (Kjetil Lenes) writes:
>
>And come to Norway and look for yourself: At the western coast
>dark/black hair and brown eyes are quite common.
>
Interesting. I wonder if there is a correlation with the so called
'black irish'. Who must, I assume be pigmentally distinct from a 
very standard average.