HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:21:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.175845.24732@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.162223.11412@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>)In article <1992Dec23.024452.24795@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
>)>Wyche did not try to unilaterally ban women reporters from the locker
>)>room, but attempted to secure the privacy of his players while they
>)>were bathing and void of clothing.  He erected a temporary wall in the
>)>locker room with blankets or some such and told the women reporters
>)>that they could ask to talk to any player, and that player, if he was
>)>not dressed, would put on something and come outside the barrier/wall
>)>to answer their questions.
>)
>)Okay, so Wyche took it upon himself to suddenly, after years in the league
>)as a head coach, decide that women reporters should not have equal access
>)to the athletes.  If he was so worried about his player's privacy, why
>)hadn't he done anything before now?  Why didn't he exile men reporters?
>)TV cameras?
>
>Looks like a definite <NACK> to me.  A definite misstatment of aaron's (and
>my) position.
>
>The whole point was that Wyche did *not* change the equal access rules.
>He decided to change the access rules for *everybody*.  And he still got
>shot down.  (Which is also what I was saying.)

The statement from Aaron you've quoted above does not say that the access
rules were changed for everybody, but that they were changed for women
reporters.  I believe it is the case in the NFL that a team can choose to,
for instance, have an interview room and ban *all* reporters from the
locker room; I think the Cowboys have done this for a number of years.
What a team can not do is to deny one group of reporters access that is
permitted to another group of reporters.  

>)Perhaps if Wyche had dealt with the real problem of the players and their
>)attitudes toward women, instead of tacitly supporting those attitudes, his
>)"fathering" would have been more effective.
>
>That sounds rather unrealistic to me.  A head coach is not in a position
>to do a lot of psychological work on his players.  It's  not clear that the
>players had 'real problems with their attitude' towards women, either,
>(unless one believes 'group sex' is inherently bad and evil, of course)  nor
>is it clear that Wyche supported these allgedly 'bad' attitudes.

Your claim was that Wyche was trying to protect these poor athletes from
themselves because they might not be able to behave appropriately in a
locker room if women were present.  My claim that this "protection" isn't
very useful.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vbdiep@iastate.edu (Vinh Diep)
Subject: Re: The Best First-base Player in !993
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:52:03 GMT

In article <C0M6pC.IIp@news.iastate.edu> vbdiep@iastate.edu writes:
>	While many of you are arguing about Will Clark and Frank Thomas, and 
>one is better than the other, one player that some of you seem to ignore will
>surprise baseball fans in 1993. That All-Star first-baseman is DON MATTINGLY.
> 	Any questions?

	With one question above, I am flooded with questions like "What are
you smoking?" and "What's in your pipe?" I am surprised. What is wrong with
you people who come up with such questions. Think clean. Don't let that 
"stuff" hang around your head (I mean to those people ask me those questions).
	Please avoid such questions (or related questions).
	THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart...  CHAO....

	
Posted-Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:56:51 CST
Received-Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:57:34 CST
From: Khanh Nguyen <khanh@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Get a life baseball fans... Try ping-pong!
To: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:56:51 CST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: mailEnteringNews at Honeywell SRC


I finally stooped so low as to watch a baseball game the other day.  It was
a tape of the "World" Series!  What a joke!  I can't believe you people.  I
have seen some half-assed sports in my day, but baseball has got to take
the cake.  I mean, really, a bunch of fat, old men running around in kid's
outfits, scratching themselves, and spitting on national television.  

Oh, and God forbid they should have to run across the field and damn near
have a heartattack.  Please!

And what do these slobs get paid?  $50,000,000 per second!  For what?

Have you seen a modern table tennis tourney lately?  Real action!  Mano a
mano battle for supremacy on the board.  Each one grabbing his paddle
instead of his crotch.

Pardon my saying so, but the only thing lamer than baseball is what you
call "football."

No flames necessary-- although I'm not sure you knobheads could scrape up
enough intelligence between you to come up with a good one.  Anyway, I'm
sure you're all REALLY offended.  Offended-- that's a big person word for
when you don't like something that someone said.  

So, don't bother.

Khanh
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: terneus@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bill Terneus)
Subject: Need Rockies Logo 
Originator: terneus@rs2
Keywords: Rockies Logo
Organization: Harris Controls
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:13:56 GMT


My Little League team has chosen the Rockies as their name.
I am looking for the team logo to put on the uniform sleeve.
I cannot locate anything in the town that I live in. If any of you 
have address or phone number of a store or supplier please let me know.
Or if you have the team address or phone number.

Thanks   Bill T.
From: sager@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mike.r.sager)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:39:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1993Jan4.150618.14604@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> Well, I don't gamble, but they were explained to me once...  The
> betting lines look like 6-6 or 6.5-5.5 or something like that.  If a
> team is favored 6.5-5.5, then you need to bet $6.50 on the favored
> team to win $5, and $5.50 on the underdog to win $5.
> 
> -Valentine


Actually, for the underdog, it's reversed.  You would need to bet $5 to win
$5.50.

Mike Sager
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:47:10 GMT

In <1993Jan9.182640.944@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

>Hey!

>What's all the complaining about?

The complaining is that people post without bothering to check the facts
or read the thread they're responding to.

>I don't think any of us liberated souls would mind having a job where, when
>we are showering at the end of our day, we are FORCED to have members
>of the opposite sex come in on us. In fact, if our boss doesn't permit
>a male into a female's shower, or vice versa, he gets a heavy fine.

>Nothing wrong with that!

ACtually, if someone wanted to pay *me* several million dollars, they
can send men, women, farm animals, or household appliances into the locker
room with me.  You wouldn't see me complaining.

Especially when you know the rules ahead of time.  No one is changing
the rules on you.  You knew them when you agreed to the job.  No one is
forcing anything on you.  If you didn't like them, you should have taken a 
different job.  Your boss knew the rules, too.  If (s)he's going to 
deliberately violate his/her contract, (s)he deserves a heavy fine.

>Makes me wish I had worked on the sports section of the college newspaper so
>I could "interview" the women's basketball and volleyball teams right after a
>game.

>I know all of the people on here who are defending the right of female sports
>writers to go into male locker rooms, would not stoop to being hypocritical and
>saying a man should not be able to force his way into an area where
>women are nude.

>Or, would you?

No, what we said was that women and men should have *equal* access to
the atheletes.  If men are allowed in, so should women.  In women's
college basketball, NO ONE, male or female, goes into the locker room.
Thus, no one has an advantage, or more precisely, a disadvantage.

Talking about privacy is a little hypocritical when male reporters are
allowed into the locker room, WITH TV CAMERAs, and yet someone gets
upset when female reporters want to have the same access so they can do
their job as well as their male colleagues do.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
From: fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re:  First Game Memories
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:06:08 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


	I don't remember my first baseball game, but I do remember my first
Major League game.  It was an exhbition game, played in Atlanta's Ponce de Leon
Park.  The Crackers were then in a brief stint as a farm club for St. Louis,
and the Cards came through on the way to start the season (I think).  I don't
remember the opposition, but my father was all excited because the Great Stan
the Man Musial was playing.
	The ballpark was sold out when we got there, so somehow we stood on a
hill outside the park, down the first base line.  I have trouble figuring out
the topography, since the old Sears building is across the street and Poncey is
gone.
	My main memory of the game itself, watching from a great distance at an
odd angle, was that one of the teams had fourteen or fifteen runners on base with two outs and the batter hit a ball straight up.  I mean, STRAIGHT up.  The
baserunners started running the bases.  They all circled the bases four or five
times, all 15 of them, and the ball finally came down to the catcher, who 
lurched across the plate, catching the ball by pinning it against his chest, as
he sprawled prostrate in the dirt.
	I can't recall who won.
-- 
   __  __                                     
  |__ |__                                    %  shall we eggplant,
  | |  __|  fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu         %  shall we corn,
    |__                                      %  shall we succotash?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: defensive measures of performance (was -- Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball)
Keywords: RF, DA, ???
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:48:07 GMT

In article <steph.726550888@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>all i will say is that a lousy statistic is *worse* than no statistic at all.
>>i believe that should be self-evident.
>
>It depends *how* lousy the statistic.  If it says nothing more than blind picks
>would, it is a bad statistic.  If it actually runs counter to reality, it is
>evil.  If it is positive, it has some value.  Kind of like this:
>
>(If player value could be accurately measured)
>
>            Reality     Good       Bad       Lousy, but useful     Evil
>A             1          1.2        2             1.75              4
>B             2          1.9        2             1.83              3
>C             3          3.0        2             2.75              2
>D             4          3.3        2             2.58              1

I disagree -- the evil statistic is clearly more useful than any of the
set {good, bad, lousy}.  As Bill James's wife once said, "If I don't know
whether it's better to have a high or low score in a certain statistic,
I just look for Seattle."
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
From: mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: First Game Memories
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:50:33 PST


 Being raised as an Angel fan during the 60's implies that there is no
 way that I can remember my first game ever.  

 However, one of my early games is memorable for my mother. 
 Mom was a big fan and on the way to a game we had a minor auto accident
 outside of the stadium (just tapped bumpers and both parties went their
 own way).   Then as we were waiting to buy tickets (there were always
 good seats available), the other driver showed up, introduced himself as
 some stadium vp, and escorted us up to Gene Autry's booth.  Now mom is 
 having a personal stress attack 'cause she doesn't like all the attention.

 Sometime later, mom has relaxed and we're watching the game when
 the singing cowboy himself walks in, sees an excited mitt-holding 3-yr
 old and decides to say hello.  Mom starts to stress out again and whispers
 that he's coming over to see us, and all I can say (in a loud 3yr old tone)
 is "WHO'S JEAN AUFTREE". 

 Needless to say, Mom (nor I) remember who won.

 Mark Pede

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: Sierra with A's: 5 yrs/$30MM
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:13:15 GMT


> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>> Obviously, Canseco isn't Ruth or Mantle, but the point still stands.
>> Who cares what percent he's giving?  What matters is what he's giving.

> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:

> 'Who cares' are the other players on the team. A player who radiates the
> sense that he is coasting, especially a high-dollar player, can quickly
> poison the morale of the entire team.

I agree and disagree. I agree that a player who is percieved to be "coasting"
may anger his teammates. I disagree that that can quickly "poison" moral as
I don't place too much faith in the idea that a group of 20, 40 or 60 athletes
share a common sense of moral.
This is especially true for a totally individual sport like baseball. I have
been pissed off at teammates but it doesn't affect my at-bats in the least. Do 
you think hitters make outs because they are impaired by their festering anger?
Perhaps they battle in the clubhouse, but there's no way that can be correlated
with on-field performance.

I guess indirectly, this is another argument in the defense of using statistics
to evaluate player performance. I can be reasonably sure that Frank Thomas will
post an 800+ plus OPS next year. I have no idea whatsoever if the Oakland A's
will fail next year because they're fed up with Rickey. Given that - why even
mention intangibles? It's pure guesswork (and before I get attacked by
guess who - don't confuse the word "guesswork" with the word "nonsense").

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

 Elsinor:  I'd like to point out that this uh... this tape has not been
           tampered with or edited in any way. Uh... it even has a ...
           a time-code on it, and those are very difficult to fake.
 Judge:    For the benefit of the court, could you please explain 'time-code'?
 Elsinor:  Uh... just because I don't know what it is, doesn't mean I'm lying!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Alomar and Range Factor (was Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseball)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:39:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.142208.5524@sni.ca> dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>Alomar's range factor is lower than it should be because the Jays pitching
>staff gives up more fly balls than grounders.  Every Jay infielder had below
>average range; every Jays outfielder had average range or better.  (This
>includes Candy Maldonado, unless my memory is playing tricks on me.)

a good example of why the RF is a silly statistic.

>STATS lists zone ratings for infielders, and claims that Alomar is very
>close to the league average (in fact, a little bit below).  This surprises
>me, as it would seem that not much gets by him.  Is he doing something
>wrong?  Does he not anticipate well, or does he not take a good first step?
>Like Charles, I think Alomar looks good out there.

what do the STATS ratings include? need to know that before we can assess
if they make sense or not.

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes)
Subject: APBA Baseball on computer diskette
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:26:54 GMT

When I was a kid, my Dad and I played APBA baseball using the card sets.  Now 
I'm a grown-up and own a computer.  So, I was wondering if anyone out there has
the APBA Baseball computer game and what they think of it.  Please send replys 
to me via e-mail because I don't regularly read this newsgroup.  Any 
comments/opinions/whatever would be greatly appreciated.  If there is a 
PC-based computer game that is similar but better, I'd love to hear about 
those too.  If I posted to the wrong group, my apologies.

Many thanks in advance!

Laura
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:47:22 GMT

>Let's put it this way -- can you name a single pitcher as good as Niekro
>who *isn't* in the Hall?
>ted frank

Well, just off the top of my head, how about Kaat.  I know he didn't reach the
somewhat magical 300 wins, but he has 287 (anyone know if that's right?),
and a much better ERA.
-Jonathan Katz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Padres Bullpen
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:36:27 GMT

Anyone have any ideas on the Padres bullpen?
I have heard rumors of Tim Scott, but he hasn't done much in the minors,
nor has he done too much to impress me in his major league time last year.
Any Padres fans know if the organization is leaning towards Scott?
-Jonathan Katz
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:37:06 GMT
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones

In article <1993Jan9.053557.21189@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc 'Singer Beastmaster wannabe' Nieporent) writes:
>
>>This is very arguable.Eckersley had a great season,but wasn't really as good
>>as the media hyped him to be.Of course,you can't argue with his consistency.
>
>Well, he certainly (IMO) didn't deserve either the MVP or Cy, but to say
>that it is "very arguable" is very arguable.  Who is most likely to be the
>best closer next year, if not the Eck?

  Rob 'Wonder Jaw' Dibble? Duane Ward, perhaps? Both, of course, would be
dependent on Eck slipping a little. I suppose Dibble could, if things broke
right, put together a season that could be mentioned in the same breath as
Eck's 90 without laughter. Dibble I like because of his pure stuff. Ward has 
stuff almost as good, and has been a very durable reliever for several years.
 
>>This is quite debatable.  Smoltz's own team Steve Avery, for example, might
>>be a better candidate.
>
>I doubt it.  Smoltz pitched more innings, allowed fewer hits, runs, and
>earned runs, and struck out a lot more.  Avery is only 3 years younger.
>
>How about Mike Mussina, though? 

  Mussina's a good candidate, but I'd like his strikeout rate to be a little
higher. He's an effective pitcher right now, but might not last as long as a 
true power pitcher. This isn't an indictment of Mussina, BTW .. I just think
he's in the Tapani/Bosio/Jimmy Key class of effective but not overpowering 
pitchers with a good K/BB ratio.  

>>>SS: Wil Cordero (Fryman's a good choice also) 
>
>>I'd think that Fryman's a much better one than Cordero...
>
>Again, yes.

  Right now, of course. The nice thing about Cordero, though, is that he's so
young and has a variety of tools on which to build (see Alomar, Roberto for 
range of possibilities). 

>>> C: Pudge Rodriguez
>
>Why is everyone so high on him?  Yes, he has an excellent arm.  But he
>isn't much of a hitter, so far.

  Here I'd refer to George Brett, Robin Yount, etc. Rodriguez made it to the 
majors at age 19 and didn't embarrass himself at the plate. Not too many
players do that. He's got a lot of potential to develop as a hitter. He plays
a key defensive position very well. Combine all those factors, and you've got
a potential superstar. He's only 21 this year, and projects to a ~.700 OPS. 
Not earth shattering, but pretty decent for a 21 year old catcher. As with
someone like Robin Yount, if he merely survives in the big leagues from age
19 on, he has plenty of time to develop and very probably has lots of headroom
until he reaches his peak. 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch             kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu 
Toronto Blue Jays - 1992 World Champions!      New .. quotes out of context!
".. you'd probably be teaching me how to get it up .."  - Jason Abner Miller 
".. Italian for suppository..which was genuinely hard for me .." - R. Lustig
From: behrens@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eric Behrens)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Garvey!
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:25:37 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <93008.142307IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
writes:

>  As for Neikro, I think that his exclusion had to do with the lack of
> respect for the knuckleball. Most people see it as some form of a parlor
> trick not a pure pitch. There is no denying that he will get in
> eventually, but it would give it a few more years.

Wasn't Hoyt Wilhelm a knuckleballer?  
He's in the hall.
------------------------------

Eric A. W. Behrens
Behrens@cc.swarthmore.edu


"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to keep playing baseball."  

                                                        --Pete
Rose
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu (Al Taylor)
Subject: Expansion Draft
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:13:58 PST


Could someone please post or e-mail me the complete results of the
expansion draft. 


Thanks in advance.


al			ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tjs@earth.wustl.edu (tom sullivan)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame Vote
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:15:39 GMT

In article <1ie119INN2d0@shelley.u.washington.edu> tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner) writes:
>
>What I really want to know is who would vote for Bill Campbell...
>
>GT


The same guys who DON'T vote for players like Stan Musial, Tom Seaver,
Reggie Jackson, and Willie Mays.

tom