HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Memory Protection (was Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:31:48 GMT

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
: The 68070's MMU (in the CD-RTOS/OS-9 system) eats a clock cycle itself, plus
: it has a very limited descriptor set which probably causes much thrashing.
: My hat's off to your friend for adding MP and VM to that hardware!  Heck,
: even Microware didn't bother supporting the 68070 MMU.  On the other hand:

Oops.  I should have said 680x0 up there, didn't realize I'd done
that.  When I said 68000, I ment SERIES.  ;)  He was using >68000....

: I ran some benchmarks not long ago on my 16Mhz 68030 box under OS-9, both
: with and without MP enabled.  Tick slicing was set to 100/sec, and I was
: running more than one instance of the benchmark at the same time (to force
: task and MMU switching).  The speed difference for MP was less than 1%.

: So a lot of the speed difference depends on the hardware.

We got a much bigger slowdown on cpu-burners.  We tried a renderer,
and we got a much bigger slowdown.  It's less apparent with
interactive apps because most of the time is STILL spent waiting for
info, just a much greater slice of that time isn't.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:26:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>	As far as memory protection, I fail to see the big deal about not
>	having it.  If you run good software, your memory should never get
>	trashed.  Now if your a developer, that's a different story.
>	I mean you have to kill -9 processes on Un*x occasionally.
>

This is like saying, "Car insurance?  Who needs it!  If you only drive in
cities where there are no bad drivers, you should never have an accident."

>
>	As for VM, it again is over-rated.  you can always put in more
>	memory.
>

This is like saying, "Credit cards are overrated.  You can always carry
more cash.

>
>Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not claiming any organization **
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:57:56 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Jul27.003824.16299@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>As my reasearch has discovered, Virtual Memory has been implemented on
>the Amiga, as of February.  Therefore, if you need it, it is available.

   Not in the U.S. it isn't.

>Thom
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Silly columnists
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 14:07:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <62801@cup.portal.com> <tony.712089867@ais.org>

cashes? tellers?

Is a computer like a bank system? 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?y
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 02:20:57 GMT

In article <tony.712534832@ais.org> tony@ais.org (Tony Poole) writes:

[ ]

Finally, a well thought out note from someone living on earth and not in
BMW land in the clouds. Many people would do well to read Mr. Poole's 
letter and really think about it. It makes a lot of sense to me- a lot.

Oh and by the way, my CDTV plays music audios just fine. It's my Pioneer
CD player that skips.

[ ]

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re:  Amigas are cool
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:22:04 GMT

In article <dridi.034o@choco.UUCP> dridi@choco.UUCP (Gilles Dridi ERF004) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.050959.5697@hfsi.uucp> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>>manipulation), does not have memory protection (which means that one badly
>>>written screen blanker could destroy many hours of a user's work), does not
>>
>>Yes it could.	But let me assure you that you could also loose
>>many hours worth of work by shutting off your computer without
>>saving your work and much more easily. :) Memory protection is
>>much more important in a multi-user system than a single user
>>system.
>
>    Right with the first part but not with the second.
You mean that you don't think its more important that one users program
not affect another users program than for 2 tasks belonging to the same
user affecting each other?  Well, if the two situations seen exactly the
same to you, then what can I say...

>    Yet, I remenbered a bug I had with a big script under AmigaVision
>    when attempted to save it!
>
>>--
>>John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
>>HFS, Inc.		  VA20	   |	 UUCP:	   uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
>>7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601    |	Voice:	(703) 827-6810
>>McLean, VA  22102		   |	  FAX:	(703) 827-3729
>
>--
>Gilles Dridi
>{cbmvax!cbmehq}!cbmfra!choco!dridi

Perhaps looking at the origins of memory protection and what problems they were
trying to solve might convince you.
-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:35:29 GMT

Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>Jerry Pournelle says (in this BYTE [no, I didn't buy it, I looked at it
>in a bookstore]) that there is a new amiga, and that he will tell us all
>about it in the next issue of BYTE [which I will buy], so.....

Let us hope that it is not just another copy of Slu ASpiks post.  Although,
seeing it may give Commodore some useful ideas...

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jbgoldsm@cats.ucsc.edu (Joshua B Goldsmith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:06:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


I saw it too, and that was here on the opposite side of the US way out
in California.  Amazing, I wish I recorded it...  That is the first TV
advertisement that I have EVER seen for an Amiga.  It wasn't a bad commercial
either though it could have given more details about the CDTV itself...

Finally some advertising...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Microstation CAD program now available for IBM/clones
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Distribution: na
Keywords: Commodore needs to port some software NOW!
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:03:31 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
>
>[Windows NT]
>Once again, PC droids will be forced to make a choice...
>And the answer will come from their pocketbooks.
>

... And then Thorne Kontos writes:

>
>So as an open question to the Board of Directors at Commodore,
>when are some of the most useful software packages going to 
>be ported to the Commodore line? For that matter, when is a
>68040 based machine (on the motherboard) coming out. Enough of
>the non-disclosure nonsense, things move too quickly out in the
>real world. Give us a new Amiga and new software now! I'm sick
>of you dragging your feet...
>

And when the new Amiga arrives, Amiga droids will be forced to
make a choice...  And the answer will come from their pocketbooks.
Right, Thorne?
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:34:01 GMT

In <1992Jul30.232938.14139@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.222553.25863@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>,
>mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes: 

>> The instruction sets used are different for each mode which largely
>> affects execution speed and memory access methods if the program is
>> compiled for a specific mode.

>Yes, but the protected mode instructions are mostly for memory and
>privilege management.  They aren't for handling 32-bit values.

But the mode also affects wether 16bit or 32bit instructions need prefix codes
which is a performance issue.

>Of course an OS written to run only on 386's and up can now make full use
>of the 32-bit data manipulation facilities of these processors without
>compatibility worries, so that fact is often rolled into the term "32-bit"
>without comment.

Indeed.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan)
Subject: Specs on AA chipset/3.0 
Keywords: AA chipset 3.0 WorkBench
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:14:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.065042.11197@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu
(Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:

>Question:  do we have anyone on-line here who could e-mail (post?) something
>of what capabilities the AA chipset has?

Why not simply register for certified developer status and look at things from
a different perspective, (like non-disclosure)?

Mark

-- 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
 = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: t9114145@phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigan perspective on audio
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:48:57 GMT
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

In article <dano.711957204@srl01>, dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson) writes:
> Basically, I wowed my Amigan friend (A500)
> with my SoundBlaster's digitized speech.
> He did NOT say the SB was of better quality, but that
> "wow, the Amiga doesn't have sound this good, it would
> take up too much disk space"

Must be an uninformed friend. A standard Amiga samples (using a sampler
called Audio Engineer, Australian product) at 57 kHz. A Soundblaster
_PRO_ samples at 44 kHz. What does a plain Soundblaster sample at? Isn't
it 11 kHz? Your Falcon 3.0 speech (or whatever it was) might be good,
but it's not better. He is uninformed because he says the Amiga "doesn't
have sound this good, it would take up too much disk space". What he's
saying is "I haven't bought a hard disk yet." It's not impossible to play
57kHz samples on a floppy only system, it's just harder.

> 
> I think the lack of hard drives as a standard on Amigas
> has been its #1 drawback/problem.

Hard drives on all Amigas as 'standard' would just make them too expensive 
for people who want to start cheap. Adding a HD to an Amiga is as easy
as adding a HD to any other system. They are as 'standard' as those HDs
found on any other system. I recently sold a 386, kept the WD Caviar
85M HD and stuck it on my Amiga 2000. Not a problem. The interface card 
cost me $180 Australian. Where's the problem there?

> --
> Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
> Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
> papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
> closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
-- 


Adam Eberbach      t9114145@phillip.edu.au          fnord
Computer Science student, Phillip Institute of Technology.
From: kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Microstation CAD program now available for IBM/clones
Keywords: Commodore needs to port some software NOW!
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:07:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

The company at which I am currently employed is releasing
Microstation 4.x, which happens to be one of the premiere
CAD packages (rivals AutoCad, but IMHO far surpasses it.)

So as an open question to the Board of Directors at Commodore,
when are some of the most useful software packages going to 
be ported to the Commodore line? For that matter, when is a
68040 based machine (on the motherboard) coming out. Enough of
the non-disclosure nonsense, things move too quickly out in the
real world. Give us a new Amiga and new software now! I'm sick
of you dragging your feet...

                                A disgruntled Amiga owner
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new Amiga. NOT!!
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:12:17 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

> Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>>Jerry Pournelle says (in this BYTE [no, I didn't buy it, I looked at it
>>in a bookstore]) that there is a new amiga, and that he will tell us all
>>about it in the next issue of BYTE [which I will buy], so.....

Can we please put this rumor to rest here and now?  Jerry said no such thing--
I have the current issue of Byte and my interpretation was that he received
a new machine (new to *him*) to play with.  This says nothing about a
new Amiga from Commodore.  Do you honestly think that Commodore will first
release information about their new machine(s) though Jerry's column in
Byte?  Give me a break.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (JohnC)
Subject: Niven and Pournelle (was Re: PC World's John C. Dvorak Speaks Out...)
Reply-To: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:56:11 GMT

In article <3433@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
>t9114145@phillip.edu.au writes:
>
>>I like some of Jerry's writing, the stuff that comes in paperback novels.
>>I don't care much for his other fiction, the stuff printed in Byte.
>
>  Look closer, the stuff you like is probably coauthored by Larry Niven, I
>never cared for anything Jerry wrote by himself.  Anything with Larry's name
>on it, alone or in collaboration is great.

Read Niven's recent semi-autobiographical omnibus collections ("N-Space" and
"Playgrounds of the Mind").  He talks in some detail about working with
Pournelle, and who thought of what, etc.  Essentially, when they write a
novel, they divvy up scenes and go off and write them, then come back and
critique and go off and rewrite.  As for the basic ideas, they each come up
with them.  For example, _The Mote in God's Eye_ came about after Niven
figured out a way for a planet full of aliens to have remained undiscovered
in the middle of Pournelle's thousand-year-old human interstellar empire.
Apparently, the Niven-Pournelle collaborations are _true_ collaborations, in
that they really and truly did _both_ write them.  Successful enterprises of
this sort are _VERY_ rare, especially ones of consistent high quality.

-- 
John Cavallino                  |  EMail: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
University of Chicago Hospitals |         John_Cavallino@uchfm.bsd.uchicago.edu
Office of Facilities Management | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, MC 0953
B0 f++ c+ g++ k s++ e+ h- pv    |         Chicago, IL  60637
From: yegerleh@cortez.ecn.purdue.edu (James D Yegerlehner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:36:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <root.026b@rkamiga.UUCP>, root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
> In article <mykes.0a7s@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> >In article <1992Jul25.182121.29046@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:

> >
> >Correct me (anyone I could trust :) if I am wrong, but doesn't Warner own
> >shares in Atari Corp. the coin-op company and NOT Atari Computers, owned
> >by Tramiel?
> 
> 
> You're right.
> 

No, not quite. Tramiel owns Atari Corp.  The coin-op company is
called Atari Games.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 17:53:14 GMT

In article <oleg.02o7@crumpet.cts.com> oleg@crumpet.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) writes:
>> Now Atari is showing lots of COLOR commercials for Lynx on Star Trek
>> show.  Gameboy commercials mostly on CARTOON and WRESTLING shows.
>> Many smart people watching Star Trek so they are buying Atari Lynxs
>> not Gameboy.  
>> 
>
>As far as "many smart people watching Star Trek", what's your point?
>Intelligence distribution is a bell curve, so if you want mass-marketing
>you play for the middle.

Since many more smart people watch Star Trek than Wrestling they will
like good features and games of Atari Lynx.  WHY would company like
National Geographic show ads on Star Trek? Because it is BIG WASTE
of money to show ads on Wrestling shows if people watching are on
dumbbell curve!!

Many smart people use Amigas and like brain puzzle games like Lemmings
and Rampart so Atari Lynx will soon have Lemmings, Eye of the Beholder,
Baseball Heros, Real Casino, Dracula Adventure, Shadow of the Beast.. 

>
>The Lynx is a good product that has been supported and marketed with Atari's
>usual concern and brilliance. One can only wonder what would have happened
>if Epyx retained its rights.

Person from England put up news that now Atari is showing ads on movie
screen!! That is proof Jack Tramiel is BACK IN CHARGE and will sell 
many millions of Lynxs (and soon Falcons). 

Warner company made Batman movies and people said they own BIG part
of Atari so they will help with ads on TV, magazines, and now movie
screen!

 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 21 Jul 1992 15:53:25 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>>	Have you taken a look at IBM's OS/2 2.0 OS?  It does a lot of the 
>>  things you want much better then Windows.  It does require a little more
>>  hardware to run then Windows though. 

>   Besides being out of the discussion point, if half-OS (OS/2) need 
>a *little* more hardware to run than windows, then it needs much more
>hardware to run (just to run!) than AmigaDOS 2.04. And period. Don't 
>start saying "You haven't seen it run!!" blah blah blah, you CAN'T

I will still say you haven't seen it, as if it weren't obvious from your
message.

>install it in a machine that's less than a 386DX-33 and hope for it to
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>run at an acceptable speed, but AmigaDOS can. You can't install it on a
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Funny, I just did that.

>machine with a 60Mb hard disk and hope to have enough disk space free
>for some apps, and AmigaDOS can.

I guess those apps I see on my hardisk must be some kind of illusion, silly
me.

Why not learn a bit about the subject before flaming it?  But then again, I
probably shouldn't expect too much on advocacy.

-- Nan
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:33:40 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Medieval House of Gruel

In article <3422@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
>kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch) writes:
>
>>Or maybe he's been inspired by the recent obituary in the Silicon Valley
>>newspaper to write his own image mulching smear when it can do most damage. :-)
>
>>He might still be in mourning over Big Kat... hard to say.
>
>  Actually, it was Ezekel, the CompuPro that he donated to the Smithsonian.
>wasn't it?

Did he mourn that one too?  I just remember the late spring, or early summer
of either 1987 or 1986 when Big Kat, some horrifying old Ghoul Breathed CP/M
Soul-less Drone Box finally blew a vacuum tube that he couldn't find a
replacement for.  

Apparently Big Kat was interned along with his 200 pound, 8" 60K hard sectored
floppy drive.

>  BTW, BYTE has a 3 month lead time, so I doubt Jerry is refering to Skip's
>rather irresponsible post that's traveled much futher than I'd imagined.

This seems highly probable.  I'm wondering if it's going to be the ultimately
anti-climactic "Jerry Pournelle spills orange soda in the disk drive of the 3000
he just turned on for the first time and blames the manufacturer for it" story.

>  Hope it is a new Amiga and not an A3000 retread, but considering that the
>summer is traditionally slow on new computer happenings, it just might be.

And blabbing about upcoming Amigas now, when they probably won't be out 
immediately does smell of possible Osbourne-u-lation...

>  I wonder if JoAnn Dow had better luck with Jerry this time than she did
>with his A2000...
>
>  -jack-


-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns