HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Reply-To: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 11:45:09 GMT

In article <Bw0s9H.LK9@cup.hp.com>, hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris Steinbroner)
writes:
|> gregory adkins (akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
|> : While riding my bicycle, anything from people swerving to a short
|> honk
|> : while I'm not paying attention can startle me and potentially
|> cause
|> : an accident
|> 
|> i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
|> 200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
|> and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
|> two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.
|> 
|> do bicyclists consider this kind of warning okay?
|> 
|> -- hesh

That would depend upon the look on your face and whether
your going for the 10 point score of the Unaware bike or
20 points for the Fleeing bike, or 30 points if you have to
chase him up on the grass. :-)
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: seligman@CS.Stanford.EDU (Scott Seligman)
Subject: Bryant Street Bicycle Boulevard opening ceremony
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:06:27 GMT

The newly-extended Bryant Street Bicycle Boulevard in Palo Alto should
be open for business within the next few days.  For those unfamiliar
with it, "the purpose of the bicycle boulevard is to provide: (1) a
throughway where bicycles have precedence over automobiles; (2) a
direct route that reduces travel time for bicyclists; (3) a safe
travel route that minimizes conflicts with motor vehicle traffic; and
(4) a facility that promotes and facilitates the use of bicycles as an
alternative transportation mode for all purposes of travel."

The bike boulevard will now reach from East Meadow to the Menlo Park border.

It will be interesting to hear what Mayor Fazzino has to say.  He
wasn't exactly the most enthusiastic supporter of the project.
Ironically, when it became clear that there were enough Council votes
to ensure that the extension would go through, Mayor Fazzino cast the
deciding vote in favor of the particular configuration that is now in
place.  It is more favorable to bicycles than most proponents were asking
for.

Scott


From: fletchere@aol.com

There'll be a ceremonial opening of the Bryant Street Bicycle Boulevard, Palo
Alto.

WHEN:  Friday, Obtober 16th, 12 noon
WHERE: Bryant Street just south of Embarcadero - in front of Castilleja School.
WHAT:  Speech by Mayor Gary Fazzino, and probably others.
       Refreshments
       Bike ride to Menlo Park border
       Picnic in Johnson Park for those with brown bag lunches (I think we can
         expect drinks to be supplied).
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:53:15 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:51:17 GMT
>FROM:   Chris Steinbroner <hesh@cup.hp.com>

>i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
>200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
>and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
>two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.

It annoys the hell out of me. Car horns don't have tone-of-voice, so 
it's impossible to tell a benign honk from an angry one. If you came up 
behind a slow-moving car, would you honk just so the driver would know 
you were there? If you did, the slow driver would probably read it as an 
expression of impatience. 

Personally, if I'm riding on the pavement, it'll be because that's the 
only safe place to ride. Even the benign honk seems to imply that the 
cyclist *ought* to move over and let you squeeze past in the same lane; 
this is also -- forgive me if I've misread you --  the implication of 
the phrase "line up" in your post. I consider this quite dangerous and 
won't do it. 

When you see cyclists on the pavement, it's safe to assume they're not 
there out of absent-mindedness; they're there deliberately. Just pretend 
they're farm tractors. Loaf along for awhile, let the old pulse rate 
subside, and pull across the centerline and pass in the other lane when 
it's safe to do so.  

--Michael Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Reply-To: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:17:13 GMT

In article <casseres-011092095534@missmolly.apple.com> casseres@apple.com  
(David Casseres) writes:

[deletion]

> I ride sanely, and I obey the REAL rules of the road, i.e. the ones
> motorists obey.  This means that at stop signs, if I can clearly see that
> there is no conflicting traffic, I proceed without stopping.

Like the guy who killed my best friends' 8 year old sister (right in front  
of her mother).  There was no "conflicting traffic," so he didn't stop.

>The same applies to red lights when I am turning right.  I signal turns and  
>lane changes when it seems necessary (which is not usual)

This is my greatest single complaint about CAR drivers - they only signal  
when they think they have to, forgetting that it isn't the person they SEE,  
but the one they DON'T SEE, who most needs to know what they're going to do.   
My prediction, Dave, is that someday you're gonna be surprised by the car  
that kills you (or the pedestrian or biker you kill) because you didn't  
signal because you didn't think you had to because you didn't see them.

>and when I can safely take one hand off the bars (which is not always). 

Good point.

>I also obey the REAL speed rule, which is "go as fast as you can without  
>getting scared."

Wrong again, pal; the REAL speed rule is: "go as fast as you can without  
being unable to deal with the unexpected."  Like the stoned idiot who ran  
the light in front of me the other day and would've killed me if I'd been  
driving by your rules, Dave.

> I bring this up, for about the 3rd or 4th time this week, because people
> are always harping on the stop sign issue.  I'm really sick of being told
> to stop at all stop signs when in fact nobody else does.

I trust my life twice a day to the safety consciousness of car drivers, and  
I'm sick of bikers who do things like run lights and stop signs; I don't  
want some driver to kill ME because he's pissed off at THEM.
 
Two things I try to keep in mind:

1.  Don't behave in a way that reflects poorly on bicyclists.  Don't do  
ANYTHING to piss off drivers.

2.  A Highway Patrol study of the causes of non-alcohol-related accidents  
concluded that the major cause of accidents among drivers over 25 years old 
was LACK OF COURTESY.

So have a thought for the poor scmuck stuck in his stupid ugly car who's  
trying to get around you so he can get to work on time.  Try to imagine what  
you look like to him as he peers into the twilight with headlight-blinded  
eyes through his rain-streaked windshield.  Anytime you do something that  
visibly shows that you're thinking about the drivers you're sharing the road  
with, it redounds to the benefit of all cyclists.

John Wolff

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:546 rec.motorcycles:35697 ba.motorcycles:541
From: hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris Steinbroner)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:51:17 GMT
Reply-To: Chris Steinbroner <hesh@cup.hp.com>
Organization: HP-UX Kernel Lab, Cupertino, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

gregory adkins (akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: While riding my bicycle, anything from people swerving to a short honk
: while I'm not paying attention can startle me and potentially cause
: an accident

i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.

do bicyclists consider this kind of warning okay?

-- hesh
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:58:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Oct8.205833.17918
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing

In article <23553@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed) writes:
> Besides, can you imagine how silly a UJM would sound with a loud exhaust?

My '71 Honda CB350 sounded just fine with straight pipes.  Of course I had
to lug the engine in 5th gear to get a deep tone out of it.

- Roid
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:17:23 GMT

In article <meudczu@Unify.Com> dxs@Unify.Com (Dale R. Shaver) writes:
>In article <casseres-011092095534@missmolly.apple.com> casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
>>
>>I ride sanely, and I obey the REAL rules of the road, i.e. the ones
>>motorists obey.  This means that at stop signs, if I can clearly see that
>>  ....
>>I bring this up, for about the 3rd or 4th time this week, because people
>>are always harping on the stop sign issue.  I'm really sick of being told
>>to stop at all stop signs when in fact nobody else does.
>
>Nobody else does?  Where do you come off saying something as obviously
>incorrect as this?  You feel the need to rationalize your breaking of 

Take a deep breath and look at the cars around you.  Very few people stop at
all stop signs.  They are also the ones who slam on the brakes when they are
doing 40 and the sign says 35 max.  Very few people stop for right hand turn
if the way is clear, its called a rolling right.  Very few people (< 5%) 
drive at or below the speed limit on clear roads.  All that David said is
that he drives the way car drivers do.  That is the safest thing you can do.
As long as you act like everyone else they know what to expect from you and
everyone can get along well.  Laws are completely meaninless as strict rules
of obiedence.  If everyone followed them then life would be boring and slower.
People have adopted a better rule system and the police; although the know it
and drive by it; have failed to use it as a criteria for ticketing (some of
the time).
  If you happen to be one of these people who drives at exactly the speed 
limit and always stops dead at every sign I imagine that you are one of the
most dangerous drivers in your area.  The law has no moral founding and is
not a golden rule to base your life upon.  It is merely an outline for the
conduct of drivers on the road or members of society.  It helps people to
get along well.  Unfortunately some people believe in strict laws and should
be enforced to the letter of the law.  Alas they don't understand the
intent of the law.  Usually they also believe the averge person to be devoid
of any intellegence and so they must be lead like sheep and punished so that
they keep going along their narrow path of life.  Society and its rules 
evolve.  There is more to law that the letter of the law.  And a good law has
a spirit that is eaily understood.  An example of a bad law are current speed
limits that few people obey (including police and other officials) and that
are randomly enforced to serve some unknown purpose of the police.
  If you want to be safe make sure that a car knows what to expect of you.
Act in a safe and reasonable manner.  In most cases this will agree with the
law.  Because most laws have a purpose and spirit you know what to expect
from other vehicals.  In most cases acting in self interest will be for the
best of all involved (I'll leave the proof to phil. people).
  - Eric
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: qpliu@phoenix.princeton.edu (q.p.liu)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: qpliu@princeton.edu
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:23:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.142701.19340@den.mmc.com> sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:

>jesse@eye.com (Jesse Lackey) writes:

>>You know, something I've *always* wanted to do is come up alongside a
>>bicyclist and give them a good hard shove and send them flying off the road
>>into whatever.  I wouldn't mind doing joggers either, except they can dodge
>>too well. These people have to learn that roads are for vehicles, not people.

>                                                        The very fact
>that some else is traveling slower or is in a non-motorized vehicle
>makes them less than human requires some amazing leaps of reasoning.

Actually, it sounds like jesse@eye.com is arguing that someone who
is using a motorized vehicle is less than human.  Judging from the
statements in article <1992Oct8.032223.6075@eye.com>, jesse@eye.com
is supporting that argument by example.

-- 
qpliu@princeton.edu           Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:15:07 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: hesh@cup.hp.com's message of Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:51:17 GMT

In article <Bw0s9H.LK9@cup.hp.com> hesh@cup.hp.com (Chris Steinbroner) writes:

   i occasionally give two quick toots on the horn when i'm about
   200 or 300 feet away.  that way the rider won't be startled,
   and knows someone is coming.  usually i do it when there are
   two abreast; this gives bicyclists plenty of time to line up.

   do bicyclists consider this kind of warning okay?

Not unreasonable.  I use a mirror, so usually I have a pretty good idea
what's behind me, but I don't object to knowing that someone's there in
case I miss them, or acknowledgement that you notice me.  On the other
hand, that could get tiresome on a wide road with lots of traffic but
plenty of passing room.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...
Organization: Why do you suspect that?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:24:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.134825.5999@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>In article <DUKE.92Oct13122545@portal.paperboy.osf.org> duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Duke Robillard) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct13.003544.26425@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> canderso@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chuck Anderson) writes:
>>
>>   When I notice a motor vehicle coming behind me, I
>>   turn my head to the left to let the vehicle behind me know that I am
>>   aware of *them*.  
>>
>>Please, could all bike-riders start to do this?  It would really make me
>>feel a lot better about passing you...
>
>I do that, too, except that over here it's to the right, of course.  A tiny
>investment of energy that pays off a lot in relaxation.  I know, because I
>can see it in their behavior, that it makes the driver involved feel more
>comfortable.  And, in turn, I feel a lot more comfortable knowing that
>they're not wondering whether I've seen them or not.
>

Hey Paul ...

The couple of times I've ridden bicycles through the merry hills of Olde
England, I've had a problem with the mirror on the *left* side of my
helmet!  Nobody in a UK bike shop had *right* side helmet mirrors.
HOWCUM ??

>-- 
>Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132



Charlie Smith   charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org  csmith@dsac.dla.mil  whois ces10
MOA# 52888, RA# 15633, DoD# 0709, AMA# 574722, Buckey Beemers 411, BK Ohio V
BMW K1100-LT, R69S, R27 and other even less worthwhile [ 2 | 3 ] wheel stuff

            {  Friends don't let friends ride wobbly bikes!  }

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:565 rec.motorcycles:35820 ba.motorcycles:571
From: harp@breeze.rsre.mod.uk (Andy Harp)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: 105 MPH (was Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd.)
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:51:09 GMT
Reply-To: aharp%hermes.mod.uk@relay.mod.uk
Organization: Defence Research Agency
X-Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed are my own.

In article <Bw26Gp.BA1@fulcrum.co.uk> rct@fulcrum.co.uk (Richard Taylor) writes:
>In article <73198@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct07.153623.2882051@locus.com> dana@locus.com (Dana H. Myers) writes:
>>  stuff deleted
>>Ok, I give up.  What the hell does "DoD" stand for.  I don't suppose it's
>>motorcycle for "STI"?
>>-- 
>
>What's STI?

STI stands for "Shimano Total Integration" and is an integrated gear/brake
system for bicycles. You change gear, using a ratcet, by rotating the brake
lever in a plane orthogonal to the braking direction. Saves taking hands off
the bars and allows shifting out of the saddle.

Andy.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Harp                            DRA Malvern, Gt. Britain     
aharp@hermes.mod.uk                    tel  : +44 684 894462
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: HOV abolished!
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:07:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct15.154132.10248@javelin.sim.es.com> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com writes:

>Unfortunately not everyone can afford to live that near to work.

You sure have that right. The _closest_ place I have _ever_ worked was
15 miles away across a major city. It would take 2 hours to ride a bike
through the city to get there. It took 1 hour to ride the Rapid Transit
and walk to/from both ends. It took 22 minutes to drive.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: rob@icarus.inmos.co.uk (Robin Pickering)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1: 30p)
Reply-To: rob@inmos.co.uk (Robin Pickering)
Organization: INMOS Limited, Bristol, UK
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:47:25 GMT

p00004@psilink.com (Michael Smith) writes:
>>William D. Bushnell (bushnell@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com) wrote:
>[material deleted]
>>Over here, in my home town of Swindon (England) two young male car drivers
>>decided to have a race.  This is not unusual as you may know but unfortunately
>>one of the drivers swerved to avoid another car and ploughed into a group of
>>children who had been sitting on a bench on some grass, off the road.  Five
>>children were killed.
>[material deleted]
>>Nick    DoD 1069   MAG 73516
>
>As a matter of curiosity -- do you happen to know what the courts did 
>with the driver of the death car? And/or the other driver? 

Both drivers were charged with "causing death by reckless driving", an
offence which carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison. This
was the most severe motoring offence on the statue book at the time
of the incident and is seldom used (other than against drunk drivers)
as prosecutions find its definition of recklessness to be nearly impossible
to prove.

The driver of the car which struck and killed children was found guilty.
He had a string of previous motoring convictions and at the time of the
offence was driving whilst banned after a previous drunk driving incident.
He was sentenced to the full maximum of five years. Under UK parole rules,
he could well be out of prison inside two years.

The other driver was found guilty of only the lesser offence of careless
driving, a minor offence which carries only a small fine and 3 licence
penalty points (in the UK one faces a driving ban if penalty points >= 12
in any 3 year period).

Predictably the sentences (even though considerably more severe than most
motorists get off with) and the nature of the victims (innocent schoolkids)
has led to some public outcry. The former Master of the Rolls (Chief Judge)
Lord Denning attacked the Crown Prosecution Service for failing to bring
a charge of manslaughter against the motorist as this would have allowed
the judge a sentence of up to a life imprisonment.

Oddly enough a few weeks earlier a lorry driver was sentenced for an incident
where he hit a cyclist from behind whilst executing a left turn.
After the accident, he stopped to remove the remains of the bicycle from
under the front of the lorry. Then he drove off, leaving the cyclist to die
in the gutter.
Because there was insufficient evidence that he was driving recklessly
at the time of the accident (other than a dead cyclist), he could only
be charged with "careless driving" and "leaving the scene of an accident".
For these two offences he received the maximum fine of 500 pounds ($1000)
and walked free from the court.

There was not any outcry from politicians or former senior judges in this
case!.

--
   Rob.