HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Media Bias
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:01:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <71249@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6367c@prism.gatech.EDU (DEAL, DOUGLAS WAYNE) writes:
>In article <98657@bu.edu> tesco@bumetb.bu.edu (Dances With Babes) writes:
>>In article <MATT.92Oct14122845@physics.berkeley.edu> matt@physics.berkeley.edu writes:
>>>
>>>And just for the record: can somebody please explain, preferably in
>>>words of few syllables, why it is worse to participate in a protest in
>>>London than it is to participate in a protest in Washington that will
>>>then be shown on television in London?  I just don't see it.
>
>
>Protesting against your country, outside your country is a horrible thing
>to do.  When one protests, it is to enact change in your gov't, community,
>or whatever.  When you protest in an area where only foreigners can see,
>how can that be thought of as an attempt to change something.  
>The only effect that those protests could accomplish would be show Bills
>fellow students that he was one of them.....he hated america too. 

  I'm sure that most people at Georgia Tech are not this stupid,
  so it's unfortunate that Mr. Wayne has to drag his school's
  reputation through the mud with his idiocy.

  1.  How does it follow that protesting against US involvement
      in the war equates to "hating" one's country?  

  2.  To the extent that a small group of U.S. Rhodes scholars
      protest in their host country this may attract more media
      attention than a similar sized protest at home, and thus
      be more effective as a protest (remember: a protest is
      basically a publicity stunt -- you want to draw attention
      to your cause.)  So protesting there might have been a  
      reasonable strategy.  It may also be more embarassing to
      the government, which adds to its impact.   Mr. Wayne appears
      to be unable to distinguish between a country and its 
      government.


---peter

  

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Subject: Re: IFCSS membership
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:03:35 GMT

"(Wanbing Li)" <wanbing@HERCULES.GEOLOGY.UIUC.EDU> writes:

>Dear IFCSS activists:

>	At this moment, people are exciting about IFCSS. Many CSS agree IFCSS
>has done a lot for them.
>	But from my point of view, the only way IFCSS can survive is
>COMPLETELY CHANGE ITS ORGANIZATION MEMBERSHIP INTO INDIVIDUAL MEMBERSHIP
>This is the ONLY way out. Do you want to have a revolution on yourself.

>Wanbing Li From UIUC

Agreed!

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "UCLA K.Y." <EDT2LRF@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: It's our turn to help HK students being charged!
Reply-To: "UCLA K.Y." <EDT2LRF@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 06:55:00 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt <china-nt@UGA.BITNET>, ccnl <ccnl@UTARLVM1.BITNET>

Here are the phone number and address of the British Consulate General
in Los Angeles, California:

     British Consulate General
     3701 Wilshire Blvd., #1500
     Los Angels, CA 90010

     Tel: (213) 385-7381

Kevin

-------------------------TEXT-OF-FORWARDED-MAIL--------------------------------
From: zxu@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU(Xu)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 13:17:47 EDT
To: EDT2LRF@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: It's our turn to help HK students being charged!

Can anyone post the phone list of those British offices on the net?

no doubt, we will fight for these students.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(John Cornett)" <library@SUNSPOT.SUNSPOT.NOAO.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  China Bank
Reply-To: "(John Cornett)" <library@SUNSPOT.SUNSPOT.NOAO.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:29:32 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu

I have read many messages on net insulting Chinese students, and sometimes
the insult is because you may associate with us, or be a friend to us, the
U.S. people. I only hope I can convey my feelings, that friendship with
Chinese people is greatly appreciated by me. Whether one is pro-Party,
anti-Party, middle ground, or whatever the political views, I think we
are lucky to be able to associate with you, and I hope we treat you in
the good way.

For those who don't like the U.S. or our people, I am sorry, and I hope
it isn't because our treatment of you is unkind. For those who like us,
I am happy. For those who elect to stay in our country, I say a thousand
welcomes. I hope we can be better, I know we do need to improve ourselves.

Sincerely,

John Cornett
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: jinxiong@cs.ucf.edu (Chen Jinxiong)
Subject: Re: What is Shannon Yeh?
To: LXH108@psuvm.psu.edu
Cc: Forwarded message
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:53:12 GMT

Shannon Yeh is a piece of shit who wants to ruin many Chinese students' 
and scholars' career and future. Who cares this kind of crap. He is 
not a Chinese, American, communist or KMT. He is a eval who wants 
everybody suffer.

			- Liu Sahe 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Kan Zhang)" <kxz@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      Prof. Fang Lizihi will be in Cleveland on 29-30th of Oct.
Reply-To: "(Kan Zhang)" <kxz@po.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:57:56 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Hi Every body:

	Prof. Fang Lizhi will be in Cleveland on 29-30th of this month.  He will
give a lecture and meet with students.  Anyone insterested, please call Pu
 Cheng(216) 397-9510 for detials.



Kan Zhang /CDHF
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "J. Cen [404] 727-4676" <PHSJJC@EMRYCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ng's attack on Mr. Shen Tong
Reply-To: "J. Cen [404] 727-4676" <PHSJJC@EMRYCC.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:02:00 GMT

From:         UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET:
>        After reading the long attack to Shen Tong by Mr. Ng, I, as a ordinary
>CSS, who does not know Mr. Shen Tong persionally, can not keep silence any
>more.
>        This is not fair! Mr. Ng, you are a free man, you can say anything what
>you want, otherside, Mr. Shen Tong can not answer your attack at this moment!
>This is not fair game. This just like some one attack another on the back!
>        No matter who is Shen Tong, CG does not have the right to arrest him
>for a peaceful action. This is a terrible human right violation. If Mr. Shen
>was not famous, as Mr. Ng claimed, this has proved the record of human right of
>China much worse than if Shen Tong was famous. That proved that any ordinary
>chinese citizen human right is not protected by the law.
>        I would like advise Mr. Ng, go to fight with the human right violation
>of CG, do not fight with someone can not answer you!     Dawei Zhou, Florida

As the one who has been bringing up the debates to the China-NT, I would like
to point out the following facts:

1)      Dr. Ng and all members of the Aliance of Hong Kong Chinese in the
United Sates, have been pressing the release of Shen Tong and others ever
since their arrests [see "Shen Tong? (II)"].

2)      He only told the reporter what he knew about Shen Tong.  I know how
they may contradict what many innocent CSS have come to believe and sounded
like unwelcome news during the lobby campaign, but what do you expect
otherwise, force him to tell lies?

3)      It is a well-known fact that AHKCUS and its counterparts in Hong Kong
have been fighting human rights violations by the Chinese government, much
more so since the 1989 Beijing Massacre.  The fact remains that many of them
risked their lives to help the successful escapes of so many democracy
activists.

4)      It is also an undeniable fact that many democracy organizations
were exposed to and subsequently destroyed by the Communist government,
after Shen Tong visited them while being monitored by Communist agents.

James J. Cen
Emory University
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Prison Labor Central Part of the Economy?
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:22:23 GMT

	In an Op-Ed article in today's New York Times, Mr. A. M. Rosenthal
twice claimed that the "products of the slave labor camps" (commonly
called prison labor) is the "central part of the Communist economy".

	Just for the record.


	 Eddie
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: bihkxlx@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Xiaorong Li)
Subject: Re: CSS in USA maybe become SCRAP HEAP in the future China
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:32:46 GMT

chen@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp (Chen Jie) writes:

>In contrast, recent years the CSS in Japan are impressive for their talent 
>and hard working. It is reported that in the recent two years,
>among the CSS who came back to China to serve their people,
>the members from Japan are more than 40 percent of the total numbers,
>and they have brought many business chances to China. 

>In conclusion, the CSS in USA are going far away from China.
>When people inside China know what happened in this Net.
>they maybe give a more surprising answer than I.

Two of my friends, they came to U.S from Japan after they got 
their degrees, after they made big bucks. They bought a house in
U.S. 

One of my friends, He returned to china, an university, from Japan
after the Univ. promised him that he may visit U.S.

One of my friends returned to china from U.S and opened a business
in china. 

One of my friends became a professor of an Univ. in china after he
returned from U.S with his Ph.D.

.....

In conclusion, we are good geys, we are bad guys, we are good looking
we are ugly. But we are all CHINESE.


xiaorong.
From: yu@bilbo.gra.vtt.fi (Xiaohan Yu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Another story Re: China Bank
Date: 15 Oct 1992 13:11:55 GMT
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland
NNTP-Posting-Host: bilbo.gra.vtt.fi

In article <14OCT199213051760@rigel.tamu.edu> y0z8374@rigel.tamu.edu (ZHANG, YUEMIN) writes:
>Last year I sent a check($40) to a friend in Japan for returning what I owed 
>him. But late on he sent back the check and said that Japan  bank wanted to 
>charge him about $17 to cash this check. That is my story. Any comment?
>
>YZ


possible! there is a similar story in Finland. One bank charges 200Fim( about
45 dollars) but another bank charges 40fim(9dollars). the charge is different
from bank to bank.
But I suggest we should stop the ' debate'on this topic. 
If someone loses money again in China, don't relate it with China herself
or human rights there. But be careful next time. It is NOT China who took
your money but some one in the world!

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU
Subject:      forwarded: Correction Re: Next Move for Group B?
Reply-To: JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:56:04 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

------------------------forwarded without comments-------------------------

> Maybe IFCSS should also begin a donation account to collect donations from the
> group A to begin planning and doing a campaign to give them some protection.
  ^^^^^^^
	Correction, here I meant "group B". Sorry if it caused any confusions.
The centeral point of my message was that IFCSS should set something up to do
something to help this group of people, and the group B folks themselves may
wish set something up to plan to get themselves covered under protection.

	Thanks for forwarding this correction to the China-net again.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: CCSA: CURRENT STATUS ON S1216
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:55:58 GMT


>...  The President has time up to next Monday to sign the
>bill into law.  Up to 5:00p.m. today, the word from the White House
>is that S1216 is in a pile of more than 100 bills passed by the
>Congress in the last two weeks...

I never imagined that the president could be so busy and had to bear
so much pressure. It is not too late for Perot to withdraw from the
presidental campaign. 

Let's pray for the president. You know, if he sufferred any serious
health problem, many people would cry for the "Monday." 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: HAIHUAN@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject:      RE:Congratulation for the victory from UCSF lobby group.
Reply-To: HAIHUAN@ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:34:49 GMT

>From:	PO1::"ZHOU@MSG.UCSF.EDU" 10-OCT-1992 00:44:13.93
>To:	Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT@UGA.BITNET>
>CC:
>Subj:	Congratulation from UCSF lobby group

>Dear HQ, CCSA:
>Dear Netter:

>	Congratulation for the victory from UCSF lobby group.

>	We'll all remember this special day.  This victory is not only
>that you, I and he have the potential to get green card, it is also the victory
>of Chinese as a group in the history of Chinese in American. We should proud
>of ourselves, a new generation of Chinese.

>	This victory is only a beginning point for our future.  If we can
>stay in the States, we need unite in the future, we need our political
>leaders.  Please support those having potential in the future, and God
>Bless them.

>	For those came after 4/90, we'll all keep eyes open for them. Who
>knows what will happened in China in the next year.  The important thing is
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here, your logic is very interesting to me. Do you expect that those came
after 4/90 can use another June 4th massacre as excuse to get green??

>that we should unite and care each other.  We are brothers and sisters.

>	We finished six of seven steps.

>	LET UNITE AND FINISH THE LAST STEP.

>UCSF lobby group
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  Where can IFCSS get self support money? part 2
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:45:52 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu, UFDZ%UFPINE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

The CPCU established early this year was suppose to bridge IFCSS with
those CSS who graduated.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zdlin@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (ZhongDong Lin)
Subject: Re: CSS in USA maybe become SCRAP HEAP in the future China
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:55:02 GMT

In article <CHEN.92Oct8194854@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp> chen@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp (Chen Jie) writes:
>
>CSS in the U.S.A are losing a historic chance for China as well as
>for themselves although they maybe reap some profits in short eyes.
>The reason is simple and obvious: historically, Chinese dislike
>those who take advantages by harming others.
>Unfortunately, most CSS in USA are doing so, at least from
>CSS's eyes in Japan.
>The following is the images given by the CSS in USA:
>------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
>but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to protect are themselves
>(see Protection Bill ).
>------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
>but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to do brings harm to
>those kind people inside China (see Bill lobbying for CMFC).
>------They have not shown any action on what they should do, for example, 
>***********to protest USA's sell of F16's to Taiwan, which is 
>very dangerous to the Chinese people both in mainland China and in Taiwan;
>***********to help those poor kids in China to get basic education;
>*********** .......
>
>In contrast, recent years the CSS in Japan are impressive for their talent 
>and hard working. It is reported that in the recent two years,
>among the CSS who came back to China to serve their people,
>the members from Japan are more than 40 percent of the total numbers,
>and they have brought many business chances to China. 
>
>In conclusion, the CSS in USA are going far away from China.
>When people inside China know what happened in this Net.
>they maybe give a more surprising answer than I.
>
>--


  Good article.  I would like to see more of these kinds presenting other side
of opinions about the protection bill, especially those who are not linked to
it ( CSS in Japan, Canada, Australian for instances).
 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "UCLA K.Y." <EDT2LRF@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      How about a subscription fee for CCNL, say, $5 a year?
Reply-To: "UCLA K.Y." <EDT2LRF@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:35:00 GMT
Comments: To: ccnl <ccnl@UTARLVM1.BITNET>, china-nt <china-nt@UGA.BITNET>

Since CCNL is financially supported by IFCSS HQ which is financially
struggling on a very tight budget, I suggest the service require a
nominal fee, $5 to $10 a year for subscribing this information exchange
if it is OK with the contract between IFCSS and the host node.

Kevin

-------------------------TEXT-OF-FORWARDED-MAIL--------------------------------
Subject:      forwarded: what netters should do now?

Comment from Ding Jian first:

     Since I don't have right to block any mail,  I just forwarded the
following mail to the net as it is.  I'd like to take the chance to
appreciate the netters' cooperation, understanding and encouragement of
my work.  But, please, don't send donation to me.  :-)
    CCNL network is part of IFCSS' important project: Chinese Community
Information Center.  The project has been strongly (and financially)
supported by the IFCSS Headquarter and the council members.  The current
President Mr. Geng Xiao has spent a lot of effort on the project as well
as the CCNL network.  This project, once finished, will greatly improve
the information flow in the CSS community, and thus befinited everyone in
the community.  So your support to the this IFCSS project is greatly
needed.  If you like to support, please donate to the IFCSS HQ directly.
    As many netters have said: united, we can make the difference.  Your
continueing support, including financial support, will be very important
to the IFCSS--our own organization.
    Again, thank you all.
                           --JD


------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 15:31:24 -0400
From: ssun@helix.nih.gov (songquan sun)
To: ccnl@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU
Subject: What do netter should do now?

Dear netter:


We  should appreciate the network service provided by Dr. Ding. It might be nice
that we, all netters, send $20.00 to Dr. Ding. He collectes the money and share
 s the money with HQ and CSSA. We only won one battle, there is another battle
 in the near future by July, 1993. Be prepared financially.

NIH CSSA
From: comp11234020@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Freedom or persecution
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:51:36 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University



	There, I see some people persecute, verbally abuse, and
whip Shannon Yeh...

	You people who are abusing him will ALLOW for only ONE view,
and that is your own. It does not matter weather I agree with him 
or disagree with him, he should have the right to express HIS view
without being characterized (as Carl did) as a Maoist. That is FREE
SPEACH. Leave him alone. Get off his back. Time may prove him right.


A person in group A
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Song Xudong <song@CS.TUT.FI>
Subject:      Hi
Reply-To: Song Xudong <song@CS.TUT.FI>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 11:30:06 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Please drop my account. Xudong Song

Thanks
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cosc17b9@menudo.uh.edu ((COSC12GQ) 92F06884)
Subject: CCP Congress
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:39:27 GMT

With so many people talking about future of China and arguing about
some trivial things every day, why nobody is talking about the CCP
Congress now is going on Beijing and its possible influence on
China's economic and political reform?

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: dnmao%mich.hepnet@LBL.BITNET
Subject:      RE: caution
Reply-To: dnmao%mich.hepnet@LBL.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:54:40 GMT

If we are not 'cautious', so what?

I do not know when CSSs will not have to live like mice, as now,
when we eventually become U.S. citizen? Even at that time I do not
see big possibility of changing this moral status because we still
will have lot of things to worry in China: we have parents, brothers
and sisters living over there, and we have to be cautious for them
and so on and so on.... We are too demanding!

What have happened in China for last four decades shows that, instead
of just keeping cuatious, we must do somthing to end CCP's dictatorship
so that all chinese do not have to worry what they can say, and even
worry what they can think. We can not live like birds or mice forever!
Of course, this requests too much for ordinary people, especailly,
for those living inside China, becasue for them, this means to ask
them to sit in CCP's jail. However, if in the U.S., in this free land,
we still have to unnecessarily worry things before we speak out, I do
not know which conclusion we can draw: the CCP is too strong? or,
we are too weak?

We chinese are not born slaves, we look like slaves because we have
made ourself like slaves. Many CSSs are always thinking that China is
hopeless because there are millions binighted workers and peasants.
To my mind, China will be hopeless IF the most educated people, the
so called intellectuals, are so cautious like today.

BTW, I am always against using the word 'binighted' for ordinary chinese
people. This word should be for those who are supposed to know something
but still do not know, not for people who do not know something because they
have no way to know.  Therefore, saying workers or peasents are binighted
only makes nonsense. In this sense, there are only binighted or ignorant
intellectuals, not others. If we insist we know more than workers and
peasents, then we must understand that the 'more' is no more than 'ABC' or
'XYZ', not good moral concepts or conscience. In fact, in the schools
controlled by the CCP, the more education a person gets, the more likely
s/he has less conscience if s/he has no interest in knowing more than what
the CCP allows people to know.

Dongning Mao
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re:      Re: Ng's attack on Mr. Shen Tong
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:43:17 GMT

In article <Bw2wos.EKx@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET writes:
>        Re: ng's attack on Mr. Shen Tong
>        After reading the long attack to Shen Tong by Mr. Ng, I, as a ordinary
>CSS, who does not know Mr. Shen Tong persionally, can not keep silence any
>more.
>        This is not fair! Mr. Ng, you are a free man, you can say anything what
>you want, otherside, Mr. Shen Tong can not answer your attack at this moment!
>This is not fair game. This just like some one attack another on the back!
>        No matter who is Shen Tong, CG does not have the right to arrest him
>for a peaceful action. This is a terrible human right violation. If Mr. Shen
>was not famous, as Mr. Ng claimed, this has proved the record of human right of
>China much worse than if Shen Tong was famous. That proved that any ordinary
>chinese citizen human right is not protected by the law.
>        I would like advise Mr. Ng, go to fight with the human right violation o
>f CG, do not fight with someone can not answer you!     Dawei Zhou, Florida

How do you know that Mr. Shen didn't do anything illigal when he stayed in China?  
I don't know anything about Shen Tong. I asked the question simply because
you were talking about laws here. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china