HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf Etiquette Part 1/5
Date: 29 Dec 1992 19:20:27 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <2934685165.1.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>I've tried to think of something like the bowing in karate,
>or the touching of gloves in boxing, and I can't think of anything.
>Maybe I'm just drawing a blank, here, but I would have to agree
>with your observation.  Everything in  G-E that I can think of has
>a practical basis in fair play, speed of play, or care for the course.

Sorry.  "Honors."  The person who does best on the hole is
often the last person to hole out, having hit close to the
pin rather than in the trap or whatever.  This means the
last person off the green is expected to be the first person
on the next tee.  This is the slowest of all possible worlds.
If it were a matter of speed-of-play, then teeing off would
simply be first-come, first-served, no pushing, running, or
talking in line.

Similar with letting the away golfer hit first, even if
he has to spend three minutes looking for and analyzing
his lie in the bushes.

"Ready Golf" isn't as polite as "Proper Golf Ettiquette,"
but it's much more efficient.

				--Blair
				  "Rule No. 2:  when in the teeing ground,
				   don't step on my line; I may just putt..."
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: New USGA Handicapping
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 15:10:47 GMT

kc@core.rose.hp.com (Kurt Chan) writes:

>I heard that USGA was instituting new Equity Stroke Control rules for '93.

>My understanding of existing ESC:

>     You are allowed to post X number of double bogeys, where X is
>     your slope-adjusted index for that course (and X-18 number of
>     triples if you're over 18).

>My understanding of new ESC:

>     For 9-18 indexes, you are allowed to take a 7 maximum on any
>     hole.

For 0-9s, you can't take any worse than a 6.  No more double bogies on
par-5s.

>Has anyone else heard about this new rule?

Yes, you've got it correct.  The USGA has studied the affect of this and
has concluded that handicap indexes may go up by an average of a couple of
tenths.  The only thing that seems a unfair is the way it jumps a 10, 19
etc.  It seems that it will be harder to get yourself below 10 if you are a
10.  For example, if I'm a 10 and a have 4 7s my posted score would be 4
strokes higher than if I'm a 9 and have 4 7s (adjusted to 6s).  The other
problem is that I see a lot of players do things like pick up after double
bogey because "That's all I can take."  Are the lower handicap ones going
to pick up after bogey on par-5s now?

The reason is that it is easier for people to understand.  All you have to
do is look at your card and lower everything to your maximum number without
worrying about what par was, or how many of them you had in the round.

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
From: merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael C Merrifield)
Subject: Re: Regripping clubs - need advice
Summary: regripping is easy
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:28:00 GMT

In article <1h52ouINNfhn@agate.berkeley.edu>, templin@grayling.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Fred Templin) writes:
> Since I've never gotten a set of clubs regripped before, here are a
> few questions:
> 
> 	...
> 
> 	- How much should I expect to pay for each club to be regripped?
> 
Regripping golf clubs couldn't be easier.
1) Cut the old grips off (cut length-wise and peel)
2) Clean the shaft (Mineral Spirits will "cut" the old adhesive).
3) Apply new tape to the shaft (use double sided carpet tape such as
   the 1" or 1 1/2" masking type with adhesive on both sides).
   Thickness is up to you and you can wrap the shaft in a spiral manner
   or apply two strips length-wise.
4) Coat the tape with Mineral Spirits and slip the new grip on the shaft.
5) Align the grip (optional...)

Good Luck

Mike
    **********************************************************
    * Michael Merrifield     merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu  *
    * Purdue  University     C A D L A B -- (317) 49 -45944  *
    **********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier)
Subject: Re: They're all 2's.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:37:35 GMT

jeffr@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Jeff Retallic) writes:

...
>Therein lies my problem.  Why would they only practice with 2's?

Obviously, because they only wanted to play with 1's and 3's and
needed to use up the 2's...

(I've begun to like 7's and 8's myself.)
-- 

Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com
From: mdillon@uceng.uc.edu (Michael Dillon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: A Question by a newcomer.
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:03:11 GMT
Distribution: rec.sport.golf
Organization: University of Cincinnati, Home of The 6-1 Bearcats


To Anyone Out There:

I'm a newcomer to this group, and I have an interest in clubmaking.  
In the few articles I've read, I've seen two companies mentioned
that are new to me (GolfMasters and Hireko).  If any one could help
me out by mailing their addresses or telephone numbers, I'd really appreciate
it.  If these are companies that sell club components, can anyone compare them
to DynaCraft or Golfworks?
						Thanks in advance,
						Mike Dillon
						mdillon@uceng.uc.edu
From: templin@grayling.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Fred Templin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf Wear
Date: 31 Dec 1992 20:59:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: grayling.cs.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Clothes

Funny you should ask this. I really like some of the golf
shirts and sweaters I see at the pro shops, but their prices
are usually way out of my league. However, while visiting
my parents for Christmas this past week, I found a factory
outlet store of the Aureus Company which had AMAZINGLY low
prices. The store is located in West Pittston, PA. (a tiny
town in Northeastern PA) and they have an extremely wide
variety of NICE shirts, sweaters, pants, and jackets for both men
and women. I bought four shirts and two sweaters for a fraction
of what you'd pay for comparable clothing at a pro shop. Anyway,
my intention is not necessarily to hype Aureus, but to mention
that factory outlets can be a great place to buy golf clothing.

Fred 
-- 
---------------------------------------------------

	Fred L. Templin
	(templin@grayling.Berkeley.EDU)

---------------------------------------------------
From: lareau@esmlsun.gatech.edu (Neil W. Lareau)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: golf shoes, spike marks, rules question
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:25:06 GMT
Organization: GTRI/ESML

The discussion of spiked versus non-spiked shoes reminded me of something I 
thought I heard.  Somebody shed some light on this please.

I understand there has been a USGA ruling (it may not be recent) regarding 
a player fixing spike marks.

1) I know that before you putt, you are allowed to repair ball-marks but not 
spike marks.

2) After I putt, if I see spike marks on the green, I usually tamp them down 
with my putter.  There is usually some sloth that scuffs up the greens in 
front of me.

3) Rule question:  I understand now that in tournament play, it is illegal 
for me to fix the spike marks on a green, even after we have completed the 
hole.  I understood it had some origin in college team golf, with players '
fixing greens for the players behind them.

4) I heard it, but I haven't read it. It doesn't make sense to me. Nobody is 
being given an advantage: I put it in the same category as raking traps.

Has anyone else heard about this?


Neil W. Lareau
Georgia Tech Research Institute			Standard Disclaimers Apply
Atlanta Georgia
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Wood Shaft Drivers
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:16:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.212519.25666@clark.dgim.doc.ca> randy@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Randy Crawford) writes:

>My father has a couple of golf clubs made completely out of wood.
>Would these clubs have any type of antique value to them?

Perhaps not true antique value, but any hickory-shafted club is worth
something, unless it's in deplorable condition.  Get hold of an appraiser's
book (most golf shops should have one) and see for yourself.  One caveat
before you get your hopes too high:  these books generally reflect the
most that you can expect to get for the clubs.

-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: 2/2 Build A Dryer Setup
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 00:00:16 -0600


>>>CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS MESSAGE

>>Materials used:

  5" diam. duct--2' long             Insulators (from elec. connectors)
  3" diam. flashing duct--3" long
  Sheet metal screws

 Total cost is about $9 (U.S.)


>>USER BEWARE!  I OFFER THESE HINTS AS IS.  I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR
ANY DAMAGE YOU MAY CAUSE USING THEM.



                                   o o o o
                                  o        o
From Minnesota--highest per capita of golf nuts in the Nation!
David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com      o            o
                              o               o      |18>
____________________________o_________________ o o o |_________
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Iron Heads
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:05:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ

In article <C011sK.Hqv@ra.nrl.navy.mil> simpson@xenon.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Simpson) writes:
>I have a couple of questions concerning iron heads. Do any of the following
>component dealers sell Ping Eye 2 clones?
> ... [ list deleted ] ...
>
>Secondly, has anyone tried the Square Toe Cavity from Golfsmiths? If so, what
>did you think of them?

The best Ping Eye 2 clone head I've seen (aside from the ones sold on
Nomad clubs) is the Select Model Pro Design (I-361) from GolfMasters.
(Also available from Hireko.)  By "best", I mean the one that looks most
like the Pings, not any judgment of either manufacturing or playing quality.

I have not tried the new Square Toe clubs from GolfSmith, but I own a set of
GolfSmith Tour Model 4 clubs that I like a lot.  The major differences
between this and the Ping-alike from GolfMasters are:

 - The Select Model is made in a harder grade of stainless steel.  They will
   withstand nicks better, but CANNOT be adjusted for loft/lie.
 - The sole shape: the select model has a curved cutaway for increased 
   heel-toe weighting at the expense of slightly higher COG.  (Actually a
   VERY good tradeoff if you, like me, tend to hit a high-trajectory shot.)
 - It has a very flat sole, compared with substantial 4-way camber on the
   Tour 4.  (I like the camber, myself, but it's a matter of choice; I've
   seen equally good arguments for a flat-camber sole.)
 - The Tour 4 can be had with square grooves; the Select Model has V-grooves.
 - The Tour 4 SW and LW (if you're planning to get the ones with the set)
   are slightly higher loft (54 vs 53, and 60 vs 57).
 - Golfsmith weights the PW the same as the 9 iron, and the SW and LW the same
   as each other (considerably heavier than the PW).  GolfMasters believes
   in a smooth gradation of weight.  Given the shaft lengths and the uses of
   each of the clubs, I tend to agree with GolfSmith on this.
 - If the cosmetics matter to you, the Select Model's are multi-colored, the
   Tour 4 black-and-white.
 - The Tour 4 costs about $3.00 more per head.

It sounds like I'm harping on the differences.  Actually, most of the
important stuff (clubhead shape and weight) are remarkably similar.  I've
handled clubs made with both heads, and could live comfortably with either.
I prefer the Tour 4 (and voted with my dollars), but not that strongly,
and not for anything that's absolute.

Hope this sheds more light than heat.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 08:48:44 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>FROM:   Isaac Kim <kim@guppy.uucp>
>
[...]

>>As a statistical collection, IMO, those who wear golf shoes care more about 
>>maintaining the condition of the course than those who don't.
>
>Jim, would you quit with these "judgemental" stereotypes.  Do 

Well.  Ok.  I just flew off the handle when you called everybody who wears
golf shoes a phony.  My apologies.

>you actually have statistical data to back up this statement, or 
>this opinion derived from your "years" of playing.  I thought you never

Of course not.  We'll just say I was wrong and drop it.  Fair enough?

>played with non-golf shoe golfers, so where did you get your opinions
>from?  I have found from my many "years" of playing that there are

I play with anybody. Doesn't matter whether they tear the course up or
not.  I've given up caring all that much.  I think all is lost with 
regard to golf etiquette, and shoes won't help at all.

>unfortunately golfers who will not replace divots, fix ball marks, 
>rake traps, or drag their feet on the greens and they do these 
>awful things reguardless of what kind of shoes there are wearing.

Too true.

>Mind you, I would much rather have a golfer drag his feet wearing 
>tennis shoes rather than golf shoes.

And some should not be permitted to wear golf shoes for this very reason,
now that I think of it.  Or am I being judgemental again?  8^)

>Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->> I still like golf shoes to play in better than 
;;| >-  `.__),;;    athletic shoes.  Guess I'm just a propoganda victim.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:33:10 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>  greg <greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM>
>
>Just wondering what fellow golfers think of Daly addmitting
>that he has a drinking problem.  I think it shows great 
>courage on his part.  He pulled himself from the PGA.

Although it's always difficult to throw millionaires in jail, I would suspect 
it was either the clinic or the courtroom.  These days, after any given 
level of debauchery, violence, or mayhem, one need only blame 
everything on drugs, check into a clinic, give a series of free talks to 
highscool students, and it's PARTY TIME!  This is all probably carefully 
spelled out at tour school -- if you get caught mainlining heroin or murdering 
a prostitute, check into a drug clinic and resign from the tour.  You'll 
be back within a matter of months, no sweat.  The old fixaroo is in -- 
you can count on it.  As long as they buy tickets to see him, Mr. Beman 
will find a place for Daly in the lineup.  (I have no problem with this, 
in principle, by the way.  Pete Rose, for example, the most selfish, 
self-centered, inconsiderate, lying bastard  to ever disgrace professional
baseball, should definitely be in the hall of fame.  I see no reason why
Daly shouldn't be allowed to play on weekend furloughs from prison, but 
the PGA tour is way too tightass for that, I would suppose.  Just because
he's only semi-human doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy seeing him smash a golf 
ball off the edge of the Earth. 8^) )

>
>I saw him play at Pebble Beach in the 1992 US Open. He 
>didn't play well, but that course is tough on a long 
>driver like him.

Tough when you're half in the bag, too.  8^)

>
>Greg

It is my impression that a significant percentage of American men find nothing 
particularly wrong with beating up women (or anyone else with whom they 
disagree, for that matter, but women are always open season -- just on 
principle, no real disagreement required), and they will support this major 
asshole even more than before.  Not only can he hit the ball long, but 
he doesn't take any shit from his wife, either.  "You the MAN!"

Sorry, Greg. Not flamin' you, honest. 8^)  Daly has gotten on my nerves 
from square one.  The more I see, the less I like him.  And now this.
  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->>John Daly is an abrasive troglodyte.  IMO, his latest caper 
;;| >-  `.__),;;   is characteristic of his nasty personality, not the booze.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: tom@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Tom McCain)
Subject: Royal Grips (Not Tour Wraps)
Organization: Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN
Date: 26 Dec 92 18:36:19 GMT


Can anyone tell me of a mail order source for Danny Edwards Royal
grips?  Thanks!

--tom
--
	    Tom McCain            tom@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu


 Only God can make random selections.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael C Merrifield)
Subject: Naples area golf courses...
Keywords: Naples, Florida, golf course
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:02:13 GMT

Any comments or suggestions about golf courses in Naples, FL?

    **********************************************************
    * Michael Merrifield     merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu  *
    * Purdue  University     C A D L A B -- (317) 49 -45944  *
    **********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Regripping clubs - need advice
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:45:25 GMT

In article <1h52ouINNfhn@agate.berkeley.edu> templin@grayling.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Fred Templin) writes:

>Since I've never gotten a set of clubs regripped before, here are a
>few questions:
>
>	- I have large hands (an XL Foot-Joy golf glove is snug on me)
>	  and I sometimes feel that there's "not enough meat" on my
>	  current grips to fit my hands. Should I ask the shop to put
>	  oversized grips on when I get the clubs regripped?

You definitely sound like a candidate for jumbo grips.

>	- My woods and irons have different types of grips on them. The
>	  woods have the type with the "arrow" which allows you to align
>	  your grip properly, while the irons have the stock Hogan grips
>	  with little angle-bracket type marks which point down the shaft.
>	  Should I get the same kind of grips for the woods and irons, or
> 	  should I get different types as they are now?

The resale value of the clubs, in theory, will go down slightly if
you regrip with something other than original, but this is really
splitting hairs.  There's no such thing as a "wood grip" or "iron grip"
so if you find one you like, go with it.

>	- What are the best types of grips to get?

This is completely subjective.  The most expensive are the Neumann 
calfskin, but that doesn't mean they're the best.  One thing that
you might want to consider is whether you like the "reminder" style
grips you've got currently.  Many players prefer a rounder grip without
the reminder and the spine in back.  You also have to decide whether
cord (or velvet cord) is desirable.  The grip is better but can be tough
on the hands and glove.

>	- How much should I expect to pay for each club to be regripped?

If the grips are reasonably priced ($2-$3 per), another $2 per grip
for installation is fair.  If they mark up the grip, they should
include installation.

You might want to try doing it yourself.  It's really easy; the toughest
part is cleaning the old grip and tape off the shaft prior to installation.
Call The Golf Works at 1 800 848 8358 and ask for their free catalog.
It's about 200 pages, in full color, and has more grip choices than one
could possibly ever need.  Good prices, too, and I think they include
starter sets for the first-time installers.

One final suggestion is that 1 1/2 years isn't much for a grip.  Try
rubbing the grip with 600 grit sandpaper or fine steel wool.  You might
get some more life out of them that way.

Have fun!



-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: lavergne@bnr.ca (Marc Lavergne)
Subject: Re: New USGA Handicapping
Reply-To: lavergne@bnr.ca (Marc Lavergne)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:15:25 GMT


In article <BzoywM.6F8@icon.rose.hp.com>, kc@core.rose.hp.com (Kurt Chan) writes:
|> I heard that USGA was instituting new Equity Stroke Control rules for '93.
|> 
|> My understanding of existing ESC:
|> 
|>      You are allowed to post X number of double bogeys, where X is
|>      your slope-adjusted index for that course (and X-18 number of
|>      triples if you're over 18).
|> 
|> My understanding of new ESC:
|> 
|>      For 9-18 indexes, you are allowed to take a 7 maximum on any
|>      hole.
|> 
The latest issue of Golf Digest confirms your understanding of the
new ESC. Furthermore, there is no limit to the number of holes on
which you are required to take the maximum 7.
Xref: sparky rec.sport.golf:4064 rec.golf:3
From: brown@media.mit.edu (Judith Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf,rec.golf
Subject: question on how spin works; reference wanted
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:43:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

I'm looking for an article or book on the physics of golf.  In particular I'd
like to understand how spin works to make a ball hit to the right curve back
to the left to hit on the fairway.  It seems to me that (looking down from
above) that a right hander hitting to the right will put clockwise spin on
the ball that that would make it curve to the right.  ????

thanks, 
Judy

Please respond to me directly because I don't read the net news that 
regularly.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: strange@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mike Strange)
Subject: Re: changing the lie of clubs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 20:27:42 GMT

In article <Bzpzuv.4AD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> chapman@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu () writes:
>I am concerned that at my address and impact positions my club head
>has the toe slightly higher than the sole of the club.  That is,
>the back end of the club head will hit turf before the rest of the sole
>of the club.  Ideally, I would like the sole to lay flat against the 
>ground surface at my current address and impact positions.  
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bill, 

Unless you are playing with rigid shaft clubs your shaft will flex such that
your toe-up position will be reduced at impact.  Quite a bit in fact.  I guess
the key to this one would be to look at your divot.  If it is indeed from the
heel, you might need an adjustment.

-Mike

(Deleted)
>
>Thanks,
>Bill
>
>
>
>


From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com