From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Sexist Incidents
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:38:40 GMT

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:

>In article <1992Aug31.193956.1239@javelin.sim.es.com> biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
>>aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:

>>...[examples of 'sexist' behavior deleted]...

>>>Even the most well intentioned and politically correct men continue to
>>>play rougher with their male kids then their female kids,

>>They certainly do. The most recent issue of Scientific American has
>>an article on sexual differentiation of the human brain. One of the
>>interesting differences that emerges is that mammals, primates in
>>particular, engage in rough-and-tumble play primarily among male
>>young.

>>Perhaps these "...well intentioned and politically correct men..."
>>are following the dictates of their biological makeup, rather
>>than the transient pressures of current fashion.

>Yeah, I understand that most primates don't live in houses, drive cars,
>program computers, etc.  We should probably all give up those "trendy"
>things and go back to living on the plains or in trees, etc.

Sorry, most primates do in fact live in houses, etc.
Perhaps we can persuade the few remaining unreconstructed primates
to share the blessings of our enlightened way of living, and transcend
their biological heritage in the same splendid way we have.

>I don't know how much biology has to do with our inclinations, but I
>*do* know that there are enough individual differences among human
>beings that we should not base all our decisions on biological studies
>of *other* animals.  Most of what humans do is *learned*, and it seems
>that it would make sense to give all children the same *opportunities*
>for types of play.  Every child is probably going to have their own sets
>of likes and dislikes; why try to bias those by gender?  If it's really
>a biological difference, the girls won't enjoy "rough play," and then
>they shouldn't have to do it.  However, despite being pretty small and
>weak, I *still* enjoy "rough play."  My brother was quite large and
>strong, but he always disliked "rough play."

We are undeniably primates, and share with them certain proclivities, even 
if it is currently fashionable to pooh-pooh these, and to proclaim the 
supremacy of environmental influences. There are also biological differences 
between the sexes, and these differences can exhibit themselves in our 
behavior. The fact that any single individual exhibits some
behavior more typical of a member of the opposite sex is not in any
sense a disproof of the thesis, as I am sure you know.

Please note that I do not advocate sterotypical child-rearing practices,
but simply report on biological facts. I do so in response to a post
which chided parents for exhibiting behavior that has been observed
among primates and other mammals, and not to impose my own agenda
on child-rearing. The frequency of horse-play of parents is of no
concern to me; castigation by others of such practices, advocating
one particular model as being particularly enlightened or correct,
on the other hand, do concern me.

>I don't plan to live like other primates...I *like* having intelligence,
>free will, and the ability to decide for myself what I like, regardless
>of the (purported) dictates of biology.

Remarkable! You can decide what you like? Does that mean you can choose
what to like? If so, please tell me how you accomplish this, as I would
like to be able to do likewise. While you're at it, please tell me the
criteria you use in selecting what you like. Personally, I'd prefer to
like whatever happens to be going on at the moment, but something
deep inside me keeps me from doing so.

Regards,
       H. Biesel
Newsgroups: alt.feminism