From: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Reply-To: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:56:53 GMT


In a previous article, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) says:

[Stuff I didn't want to comment on deleted in various places, 
whole lines only.]
>Response:
>
>This is a prime example of such 'verbal diarrhea'.  Those who complain
>about self-centeredness, egotism, and eclecticism are often lost in
>their own worlds without a central Mast to which they may attach their
>Sail.  Egotism is healthy.  It is only the oppressed egotist who
>engages violence.  Confusion is often a very transformative state of
>mind.  While we may add to it by writing our words, perhaps we will find 
>that belittlement and put-downs only display our pain for all the world
>to see.
> 
A little ego, a little confusion, a little beginning. That's what I
always felt. I would argue that reading one book is meaningless to study,
and reading hundreds is a beginning. Once you try to explain a phenomenon
to yourself in many ways at the same time, you begin to find useful 
confusion.
>
>Fun:
>
>If you are truly serious, then your greater task is to find a genuine
>source, and few abound and those that are do not accept readily.
>
>
>Response:
>
>All genuine sources accept us immediately.  Any which do not are either
>wisely cautious or foolishly imperial.
>
There is one very easy to find source which will provide all of the tools
you need, and all of the lessons you shall learn: your own mind.
>
>Fun:
>
>There's an old saying about studying magic. When a student, on a clear day,
>without clouds can of his own will conjure a thunderstorm and know that he
>and only he was responsible, but tell no one about it and keep that
>secret..then and only then has he really begun that road of a real magician.
>
>
>Response:
>
>How lovely.  Let's control Nature and see if we can love Her too!  Get off
>it!  I've had enough of these misogynist ploys for the exhibition of
>power!  We'll try, we'll fail.  That is the Way of Tao.  Try to pull
>a radish into tastiness and you shall pull up seeds.  She does not
>wear a leash and collar.  When we attempt to apply these She bites quite
>viciously.  The iron is hot!  Stand back! 
>
I would add that there is a fine line of difference between _control_ and 
_influence_ and I rely entirely on the latter. I would not create a storm, I
would ask it to consider another course which would benifit it, and myself.
That is what I have learned from Zen.
>
>Fun:
>
>Power trips are very common. If you read any extant grimoirs you'll find
>that in the pontifical tradition, an alliance to a religious format is
>necessary.
>
>
>Response:
>
>This is true.  What is and is not a 'power trip' is not always easy to
>see, however (until it's too late).
>
I would ask for a clearer definition of 'power trip'...Is this the feeling
one gets from using power? Or is it more the false impression of using power?
>
>Fun:
>
>Now, is this possible? Yes. Can it be done? Yes. But it demands many things
>of the individual particularly that which most people find it impossible to
>do these days. Give of yourself!
>
>
>Response:
>
>Power cannot be obtained except by force.  Power-over is seized through 
>violence to others.  Power-in is earned by leverage with demons.
>
>Those who give of themselves in response to such words will more often
>than not find themselves spent and their energies used by unscrupulous
>individuals.  Give NOT of yourself to obtain power but power itself!
>Those who give away their power will have it returned to them three-fold
>in term of individual integrity, self-esteem, and a pure conscience.

I would not strive for more power, I still have not found the bounds of
what I have. I give of mine freely, and never run short. My power is only 
limited by my limitations, and if I were to believe I would run out, surely
I would do so.


The greatest gift is self.

Yours in re-rebuke,

Paul (lacking a mystical name of significance)

P.S. Thank you for the interesting and thought provoking discussion.
-- 
jds2 	John D. Specht (Heads I win; Tails you lose.) Virtual reality is life!
ae358	Paul Bort (It ain't pretty being easy) Spring: Forces, Coiled again!
If you want to save an endangered species, hug a romantic.
Love is the triumph and pleasure and joy and light that makes life bearable.
Newsgroups: alt.magick