HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gringort@wsl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Re: Scraping versus Sanding
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:30:52 GMT
Organization: Western Software Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cotati.pa.dec.com

In article <4320083@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov5.102424@wsl.dec.com> gringort@wsl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten) writes:
|> 
|> >So, the question is then, is my scraper technique faulty, or are there indeed
|> >situations where sanding is the only way to get a good finish.
|> 
|>    In spite of some of the almost laughable comments in this string, I still
|>    insist that I get my best finishes with a scraper.   

Glad you were amused.  

|>    Of course, before I TOUCH that curly maple with my scraper, I have sanded
|>    it down smooth with at LEAST a 200 grit sandpaper on an orbital sander.
|>    Then, I take my scraper and hone a dead flat, straight edge, and 
|>    touch it with the burnisher with just one or to complete strokes.
|> 
|>    This gives me a barely perceptible edge, and I use it on knotty or
|>    intricate grain.  There is NO tearout, and the flat (as in texture, not
|>    geometry) surface left by the sandpaper becomes reflective like glass
|>    after a few strokes with the scraper.

Oh, ok.  I use a hand plane to rough out my work.  You use sandpaper.  Sounds
like a preference issue to me.


|>    If you don't know the basics of producing a good surface with sandpaper,
|>    you might as well forget trying to use a scraper.   Master the sandpaper
|>    first, then learn how to use a scraper.

No thanks.  My whole point is I'm trying to stay away from sandpaper.
Purists rarely touch the stuff.  I never knew sandpaper was a prerequisite
for proper scraper technique.  Have any references for this amazing fact?

|> 
|>    Lately, I have been using my jointer for finishing surfaces.  It is faster,
|>    and makes a nice face, like a planer, without any chance of sniping.  

I'll bet they look wonderful.  Kind of a cornrow patina, eh?

-joel

PS - If I ignore your patronizing, elitist tone, I actually glean a
possible hint as to something that may make a difference.  You appear
to put less of a hook on the scraper than I do.  Since a smaller hook 
takes a shallower cut, it's likely to work better on troublesome wood.
I'll have to try that.  However, I'm certain it has absolutely 
nothing to do with your preparation with, ugh, sandpaper.
From: CCVQC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Christopher Vickery)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: How to fill holes for new lockset?
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:31:36 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I want to replace the lockset on my front door.  The new
hardware takes a couple of circular holes that don't
relate to what's been cut for the existing hardware.  The
question, then, is how to fill the existing holes to make
the door structurally sound for the new ones.  The door is
painted, so it doesn't have to look good, just be able to
be finished smooth for repainting.

Basically, what I want to fill is a 7.5" x 5" x 1" mortise
in a 1.75" door.  My idea is to cut an undersized piece to
fit the mortise, and to use some kind of filler to surround
it, fill in the gaps, handle expansion, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
-------
Christopher Vickery, Computer Science Department, Queens College (CUNY)
Flushing, NY 11367-0904  vickery@ipc1.cs.qc.edu (718)997-3500
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: tds@hoserve.att.com (Tony DeSimone)
Subject: Re: Anyone ever use Watco finishes?
Reply-To: tds@hoserve.att.com (Tony DeSimone)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:54:10 GMT

>>>>> On 18 Dec 92 01:55:20 GMT, bennett@adobe.com (Bennett Leeds) said:

Bennett> For instance, Watco says it takes about a month for the finish to dry 
Bennett> enough to be safe to chew on. They used the term "full polymerization,"
Bennett> whatever that means. 

It means that all the ``monomers'' have become parts of ``polymers.''
The monomers are the molecules that link themselves together to form
the polymer.  Probably waiting is important, since it can be that the
monomer form is very nasty while the polymer is completely safe.
Acrylnitrile (sp?) comes to mind, which is safe enough to use as food
packaging as a polymer, but as a monomer causes your head to explode
instantly (or something).  I came across that particular beast in my
undergraduate life, when an unfortunate incident involving a glass
reaction vessel and the lower-than-I-thought boiling point of AN ended
my career in experimental chemical physics.  Good thing clumsy
experimentalists can be rehabilitated as theorists if caught in time...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Tony DeSimone                               Room 3m321               
Performance Analysis Department             101 Crawfords Corner Road
AT&T Bell Laboratories                      Holmdel, NJ 07733-3030
From: ljm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JAMES A. MC LENNAN)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Jointer vs Planer
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:25:22 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec11.194237.11158@adobe.com>, bennett@adobe.com (Bennett Leeds)
 writes:
>JAMES A. MC LENNAN writes
>>...I get rough-cut cherry for about $1.75 vs. about
>> $5.00 for planed.
>
>Ummm, $3.25 per foot for planing wood is an order of magnitude most
>expensive than I've ever heard of before. Around here (No. CA), planing
>is about $.20/ft.  What else is going on here?
>
>Perhaps you meant $4.75 for rough, or maybe $2.00 for planed?
>
>- Bennett Leeds
>bennett@adobe.com

No, I meant $1.75. A couple of weeks ago I got 28 bf of cherry for $50; KD
and very clear.  The difference is the source, not just the planing.  For
rough cut you go out in the woods somewhere to a small mill, which doesn't
have a planer. Planed you get from a retail lumber yard.  Some of the local
lumber yards which do planing also have rough-cut hardwoods but they're
pretty dear.
-- 
Al McLennan
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Polyurethane Application
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:45:46 GMT

bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
: 
: : 3).  Does the polyurethane need to be thinned or have some other type of
: :      "stuff" added to it in order for it to spray well?
: 
: Not in an airless sprayer.

This is not necessarily true. The paint needs to be of the proper
viscosity - even with an airless gun - if you desire the best results.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: jp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (John Pierce)
Subject: Re: Anyone ever use Watco finishes?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:49:56 GMT
Organization: the Atlanta Technology Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Jarrett Knyal (knyal@ils.nwu.edu) wrote:
> I just ordered some Watco finish from McFeeley's.  Has anyone ever used this
> stuff?

Yes.

> Is it any good?

Yes.

> They pretty much tell you how to use it right in the
> catalog but if anyone can offer any additional tips, that would be great. 
> Thanks. 

Watco is a brand name for "Danish Oil Finish."  Basically, it's a phenolic
resin in an oil solvent.  Phenolic is one kind of resin.  Other kinds are
polyester (the resin in common "fiberglass") and epoxy (you know about
that).  Maybe you've seen phenolic printed circuit boards.  There are also
phenolic boards with glass fiber reinforcement sold to mount routers to
router tables.

This gives you an idea of the phenolic resin.  Watco and other Phenolic
Resin finishes are in this family, but don't give you exactly the same
thing as a PC board (no copper traces, for one thing ;-)).  The finish
you get is pretty transparent (look at the dried stuff aroung the mouth
of the can).  If you use the "natural" finish, as I do, it will dry to
a honey-caramel color.  This might or might not be what you want.  Just
keep it mind.

When applied, a phenolic resin finish penetrates the wood fibers.  On 
open grained wood (eg. oak) it will go pretty deep.  I have applied it
to samples, then sectioned them to see how well it penetrated.  You might
want to do similar experiments before you actually do a real project.

One of Tage Frid's books (forget which one) reommends putting on Watco,
then leaving to dry *without* wiping it off!  After it's dry, he comes
back and uses wet/dry sandpaper, using more Watco as the lubricant.  In
the process, you take off some of the dry resin and also some wood.  The
slurry then fills open pores.

This method sounds good to me.  I'm still experimenting with it, but
still haven't gotten it down pat.  Refinements, anyone?

---
	#################ANY#OPINONS#HERE#ARE#MY#OWN####################
				John Pierce
			 Atlanta Technology Center
			  jdp@itpg004.atl.hp.com
			      (404) 850-2492
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Piano kits & CD scratches
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:13:48 GMT

fkilpatr@afit.af.mil (Freeman A. Kilpatrick) writes:
: 
: Ok, OK,!  I said in my original post that I didn't know *anything* about piano
: making.  Obviously, I have never looked inside of one to see the 1200 pound cast
: iron thing or the strings that are holding "20 tons" of force.  I thought it was a
: much simpler device, and I never realized there was major engineering involved.  I

That "cast iron thing" is called a harp. 

... delided ...

: Many people pointed out that piano tuning is not a trivial thing, and requires
: special tools and skills.  Also, some pointed out that you should never buy a used

It requires skill, and a good ear. There are only a couple of special tools
used - they are not expensive.

: piano without getting it checked out by a piano technician.  I think this is really
: good advice.  

It certainly is, unless you know pianos.

: Thanks for cluing me in, and special thanks to those who actually gave me
: encouragement for what is probably a foolish endeavour.  You will be glad to know
: that I have decided to make a wooden tuba instead. :)

Hm. Maybe  you could make an all-wood piano? Might be a little hard to carve
all the strings, however.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: parnass@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Bob Parnass, AJ9S)
Subject: Re: problem with planer
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:33:44 GMT
Summary: my Porter Cable router/shaper table experiences

In article <1992Dec16.095109.6237@desire.wright.edu>,
fichtenbaum@desire.wright.edu writes:
 
 > On another subject, I am thinking about purchasing the PC router
 > table.  Does anyone in netland have any experience with this router
 > table or have any opinions about the table.


In summary, the PC router/shaper table works fine as a router
table, but I found the supplied finicky split fence rules out
serious use for shaping or jointing.

As background, I build mostly small hardwood items like toys and boxes.
Occasionally, I've built some simple furniture from oak and pine.

I bought the PC router/shaper table a couple of years ago with the
optional 1-1/2 HP router motor and steel leg stand.

I was initially turned off by trouble I had adjusting the split fence...
Early on, I removed the router motor and put it in a plunge base
so I could route by hand.  The router motor itself works very well,
and I gave up using the table for 2 years.

My unit has plastic split fence faces but I think newer units come
equipped with wooden faces instead.  The split fence was
a pain to align.  The plastic faces are slightly warped now
but I don't know if it came this way or happened over the
last 2 years when the table was sitting unused in the basement.

The table itself is ribbed aluminum, and you should clean and wax
the surface when you first built it or the oxidation will stain
your wood. (voice of experience)

To tell you the truth, my first impressions of the product were
negative.  But I think some of that was due to my inexperience
at the time.

Last week, I vowed I would start to use it because I hate
to see a $200+ tool go to waste!   I started "relearning"
how to use it and tried a temporary setup to see if I could use
the split fence to edge joint boards (I don't own a real jointer).

In the end, I didn't use the troublesome split fence as it's just too
finicky.  Instead, I clamped to the fence a board with a notch to
clear the router bit.  I then clamped a piece of 1/16" thick PC
board to the outfeed half of the fence so I could use it to remove 1/16"
wood at each pass.

The experiment met with partial success.  It will joint short boards,
but the short fence means it won't be easy to joint long boards.
Most of my projects use short boards anyway.

I don't know if the newer wooden fence faces are any better,
but it looks easy to replace my plastic split fence and make
a new wooden split fence from maple (or order the parts from PC).

-- 
==============================================================================
Bob Parnass, AJ9S  -  AT&T Bell Labs  -  parnass@ihlpm.att.com - (708)979-5414
From: msieweke@hayes.com
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Jointer vs Planer (and Bandsaw)
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:42:52 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

My choice is to get a jointer and bandsaw first.  With the bandsaw I can
take a 3/4" board and make two 1/4" boards and clean them up on the jointer.
With a planer I would have one 1/4" board and a lot of sawdust.

In theory I could use a planer to clean up the two 1/4" boards; but when
you resaw, the wood usually warps, requiring more work on the jointer.

My friend with the bandsaw moved to Tampa, so I'm in the market for a 14-16"
bandsaw with 12" vertical capacity.  I'm looking at the Delta and Jet
models right now, and the choice is difficult.  The Jet looks awfully
good for a "cheap" Taiwanese clone.  Money is not the major issue - I 
just want to be sure I get acceptable quality and keep the extra money
to buy hand planes :-).
-- 
Mike Sieweke                            ...!uunet!hayes!msieweke
Hayes Microcomputer Products            msieweke@hayes.com
Norcross, Georgia                       hayes!msieweke@relay1.uu.net
"I've never seen so many people obsessed with the trivial!"
   - a co-worker after his first time reading news
From: budn@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Bud Noren)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:45:05 GMT
Subject: Bosch Sander Question
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

Anybody familiar with the Bosch 1290 half-sheet sander?  I'm not talking
about the 1290D that has the dust collector attachment.  The local toy
store, I mean, um, tool store is blowing them out at $40!  I couldn't 
resist picking one up being that $40 is almost in the range of pocket
change.  Is there anything blatantly wrong with this sander?  A quick
check last night showed that it seemed to function OK.  The normal
price range for this type of sander seems to be ~$100, so I anguished
in the store (for about 10 seconds) about the old saying, "If it's too
good to be true, etc...).  Any confidence inducing words such as, "It's
a fine sander", or, "It probably won't blow up in your face", would
be appreciated.

Thanks,

-Bud
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: ameres@ithaca.cat.rpi.edu (Eric Ameres)
Subject: Pickling Oak
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:28:34 GMT

Oh wise and wonderful rec.ww'ers,

OK, my latest faq-less question.  For my finish on my oak and oak
veneer cabinets (not that I'm finished yet :^( ) I'm planning on using
a pickling stain for a light finish (no extra pigments, comments
welcome) I bought some Behlen's because I could get it locally to try
it out.  The stain is mineral spirit based.  What should I use for a
sanding sealer and finish coat (as well as thinning the three for my
Wagner HVLP, if neccessary)?  A friend recommended Deft (laquerish) for
the final finish (sprayed of course) but wasn't sure how it would
interact with the Behlen's white pickling stain (mineralish).

So here I am soliciting for techniques/combinations of pickeled
finished.  I already bought a quart (11.95 not a big investment) of
the Behlen's stain, but am up for grabs on most else.  I'm assuming I
should brush on the sealer, then sand, then spray on the stain
(thinned with ???), then rub off excess, then lots of (6+) coats of
finish (rubbed with 00000 steel wool between ever three or so).

Comments?  Criticisms?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Ameres,  Software Engineer                 ameres@cat.rpi.edu
New York State Center for Advanced Technology in Automation & Robotics
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - CII 8313, Troy, NY 12180-3590
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:22:17 -0600
From:         Jeff Roberts <JROBERTS@UTDALLAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: HELP: Looking for info on exotic hardwoods (mail order woes)
              16 Dec 1992 16:38:21 -0600 from <ron@TOPAZ.BDS.COM>

On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:38:21 -0600 Ron Natalie said:
>Most "exotic" wood is sold ungraded.  I've been screwed by mail order, too..
>It depends on who you order from.  The stuff I got from the woodworking
>store was decent quality (no major blemishes), and rougly the sizes they
>described..
>
> <deleted>

 I get the feeling that I should consider myself lucky as to the choice of
 hardwoods I have easy access to..

 In the Dallas metroplex there are three stores that I buy from..
 Two of them are full service, Woodworld and Paxton's,
 they carry lots of hardwood (go through the piles until your purple in the
 face if you want), tools...large and small...hand and power, all sorts of
 specialty junk, books, video's, benches you name it.  If they don't have it
 they can get it (prices are rather high though).  The third place is Austin
 Hardwoods (in Dallas).  They carry WOOD, period.  It's a warehouse in an
 industrial area, the kind of place you really feel at home with in your boots
 and sawdusty clothes.  The hardwood and plywood are on pallets and are neatly
 stacked everywhere, 3 sometimes 4 deep.  If you want the stuff up on top you
 go shag the dude with the keys to the forklift and behold, you can play with
 wood
 until it gets dark outside.  Once you're done, pull your truck into the
 warehouse and load up.  Price fluctuates with the market, they take the same
 percentage of profit not matter what.  Their wood is not cleaned up as
 well as the other places but it's ALOT less expensive.  Want one edge of your
 planks straight?  Pull your truck up to the monster saw in the middle of the
 building, and that will be an additional 7 cents per BF (good deal) thank you..

 How do you buy your wood?  It mail order the only way?  Do you have to drive
 to a different state?  I'd be interested in hearing some horror stories..

 Jeff Roberts JROBERTS@UTD
From: gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:22:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Piano kits & CD scratches
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

Actually, the original author might be interested to know that there are
a number of good harpsichord and clavichord kit makers around.  Some of them
advertise in FWW.

If you really want to make a nice piece of furniture that you can play, the
harpsichord isn't a bad way to go.
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Piano kits & CD scratches
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:16:46 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1992Dec14.225124.1@acad2.alaska.edu> asket@acad2.alaska.edu writes:
>Gee, sort of like the question, "I'm building a full size replica of the
>Great Pyramid, are there any kits available?"  Sorry, as a strictly amateur
>woodworker, and a slightly less amateur musician, I couldn't resist.  I 
>admire the ambition, but I'm still laughing all over my office at the
>image of the UPS delivery guy trying to get that 1200 pound piece of 
>cast iron into your mailbox when he delivers your piano kit.
>  

UPS won't carry anything nearly that heavy.  And they're not
allowed to put anything into a mailbox.

>Oh, and about the CD scratch--if a guy can afford a CD player in his car,
>can't he afford a new CD?

Perhaps it's not being released anymore?  Of course, what he
*should* have done is dubbed it onto a cassette or cart...


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: Archer Gravely <gravely@unca.edu>
Subject: Using Plunge Router Under Table
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:56:36 GMT

Original Question:

>I have a Makita 3 hp Plunge Router and would like to know if
>other folks have tried to use this type of router under a router
>table?  Are their any problems in using plunge routers with
>a table?

>Archer Gravely
>UNC Asheville

****************************************************

 I am using my Bosch 3 hp in an extension table of my table saw. no
 real problems, except it's sure heavy to lift in and out. I mounted the 
 router on a 3/8" plexiglass 8x13", set into a rabbeted hole in the table.

  The Bosch has both the lever locking arm, and nuts on a threaded rod
  to lock the router at any depth. A little inconvenient to adjust while
  it's in the table.

 pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford)
**************************************************

  I use the Bosch 1615EVS in my tablesaw extension.

   I know what you mean about the nuts, however, mine came with a 
   2.5" diameter knob that fits over the nuts.  It works real nice
   under the table, though it is still a bit tedious to set the height
   long distances this way.  it is GREAT for micro adjusting bit 
   height though.

   I have seen an actual crank handle that fits over the nut, too, I think
   in Woodworker's Supply or some such.  I want to get one as this would
   take the tedium out of raising and lowering the stop nuts over long
   distances.

Original Question:

>I have a Makita 3 hp Plunge Router and would like to know if
>other folks have tried to use this type of router under a router
>table?  Are their any problems in using plunge routers with
>a table?

>Archer Gravely
>UNC Asheville

****************************************************

 I am using my Bosch 3 hp in an extension table of my table saw. no
 real problems, except it's sure heavy to lift in and out. I mounted the 
 router on a 3/8" plexiglass 8x13", set into a rabbeted hole in the table.

  The Bosch has both the lever locking arm, and nuts on a threaded rod
  to lock the router at any depth. A little inconvenient to adjust while
  it's in the table.

 pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford)
**************************************************

  I use the Bosch 1615EVS in my tablesaw extension.

   I know what you mean about the nuts, however, mine came with a 
   2.5" diameter knob that fits over the nuts.  It works real nice
   under the table, though it is still a bit tedious to set the height
   long distances this way.  it is GREAT for micro adjusting bit 
   height though.

   I have seen an actual crank handle that fits over the nut, too, I think
   in Woodworker's Supply or some such.  I want to get one as this would
   take the tedium out of raising and lowering the stop nuts over long
   distances.