From: droe@cs.tcd.ie (David Roe)
Subject: Re: Praise Raves...
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Astrobiology)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:04:56 GMT

In article <85359@ut-emx.uucp> alexpace@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Alex L. Pace) writes:
>
>I would never ever want to be involved in any way with something as bogus
>as a "Praise Rave".  Who's bright idea was it to combine the most oppresive
>instituion of man with something as free and loving as rave?  Especially
>Christianity which is probably responsible for more deaths than Hitler and
>Stalin combined for crying out loud!  Even tho the church is free to have
>its own raves for its members, it will surely distort what those members
>think of raves...but then again, most churches couldn't functions without
>some sort of brain washing anyway.  If Christian, Jewish, or Islamic groups
>want to hold some sort of group meeting, it would be much more fitting to
>have a riot, lynching, concentration camp, or other violence based event
>than to have a rave which is about peace and love.  Maybe religion decided
>that maybe rave was something they could get into when the brits and scots
>started to have violent raves?  Perhaps you could have and Catholic vs.
>Protestant rave and have the Irish Republican Army supply the firebombs?
>These christins have been killing each other for generations...
>
>The only corrolation I can see is this:
>
>A) Christmas is abbreviated X-mas
>B) Christians are abbreviated Xians  (at least by history scholars)
>C) Therefore, Christ is X
>D) Moreover, the "Church of Christ" is also the "Church of X"
>E) What does X have to do with ravE ?
>
>
>Alex
>
>PS  I wouldnt go to a Hindu or Buddist event either but I'd feel more safe
>    there if I had to choose.


Okay, I've walked around, counted to ten and had a cup of soothing tea
to calm me down after reading this. Alex, I believe that you could not
be more wrong on almost every detail of your entire article. Firstly,
I'd like to give some background of 'where I'm coming from'. I am Irish,
from the Republic. (Note, _not_ a 'Republican'). I am a Protestant, and
thus in a minortity of about 2% in my country. I'm 24, and a graduate
student. I'm am not religous in any sense of the word. I occasionally 
go to church when I visit my parents, which might be about five times a
year. I dont really believe in a God, its not something I give a lot of
thought to. _But_, my religion is important to me. It is a family thing,
to give it up would be like to abandon my family name. I have lived near
the Northern Irish border for a long time. My father s a bank manager
and, on two occasions was help up by armed IRA or IPLO, at gunpoint and
threatened with death. During the period 1916-1918, over three quarters
of the men between the ages of 18 and 30 in my family were killed either
in the war, the Civil war or the rising. 


In any case. My experience with raves is this. 'Raves' in the
spontaneous, warehouse sense of the word dont really exist in Ireland.
Partly because they are not particularly needed. Dublin has a large
number of dance-halls, not clubs, more like purpose-built halls
expressly for dancing. These do not normally serve alcohol, and can have
licenses that allow them to stay open till very early hours.Irish raves
are very much an inner-city thing. The vast majority of ravers are
between 16-20, dont go to school, ever, and are what would be called
"lower working class". This may seem like a very perjoritave term to an
American, but is perfectly normal here. They are of course, 100%
Catholic. 

When raving, I move around, talk to people, get interested (I'm sure you
know what I mean). I often mention, my background (about as middle-class
as you can get) my religion etc. I have _never_ met with anything but
friendliness. Remember, for all the Tourist Board "Land of Smiles"
shite, Dublin is _not_ a friendly city, >20% unemployment, terrible
housing, a social welfare system on its knees, etc. etc. But I have made
many real friends among people that I would never normally meet, let
alone talk to. 

Secondly, Dublin is quite a quick trip down from Belfast. The rave scene
in the North is almost squashed by heavy police interference. Drugs in
Ireland (especially E, acid and speed) are controlled by the IPLO. Plus,
the RUC (police) dont like any gathering of young people, of any kind
since often these can lead to violence, which can lead to riots. So,
often at a rave in Dublin, you'll meet people down from the North, for
the weekend. Their comment? Its great down here, no hassle, everyone is
so welcoming. IMHO raves have done more for cross-border contact than
'Cooperation North' ever has. 

My point. You are saying that a Christian 'Praise Rave' would be a bad
thing, that it would lead to violence, and imply that it would be
impossible for Protestants and Catholics to 'rave-together'.  You are
simply wrong. I dunno if there is the will here among religous people to
try something like that. But if raves are supposed to make people love
one another then surely it would be ridiculous to say "Hey we can do it
but they cant" When 'they' are the people who need it most.


	Dave "Hand on the shoulder in Leicester Square" Roe
Newsgroups: alt.rave