HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: continuation on Cyprus (in multiple choice)
Date: 19 Dec 1992 21:00:53 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Okan Baysan writes (having ignored most of my message):
> I knew that. I will do my best to help strengthen the roots of the Turkish
> Republic of Northern Cyprus and at the same time, continue to offer the
> Greek Cypriot side my good will and genuine intentions to come to a
> peaceful and just agreement which will secure the safety and security of
> the Turkish Cypriot people, recognise their independence and sovereignty,
> and allow them to live free from fear and Enosis nightmares 

I see that I have been wasting my time all along... No matter what I write
I always get the party line about fear and Enosis nightmares...

So, for the last time, here it goes, as quoted in another message:  

  "let them live separately, have different COUNTRIES if it will help save
  lives, but get rid of as many of the settlers as possible, armies, and
  attempt  (thru a neutral party) to negotiate compensation for the
  properties lost to both sides.  I sympathise with the losses of both
  sides but if it is either that or Lebanon/Yugoslavia, the choice is
  simple."

My only ax grinding on the subject is the one about the thousands of
homes/ businesses/assets lost to the "intervention". Would your
leadership accept a neutral party going over each and every Greek
Cypriot (and Turkish Cypriot) home/business/land lost in the invasion
and come up with an equitable settlement to both sides?

A simple yes or no answer (not your usual enosis party line) will be
greatly appreciated. Here, for your aid:

YES  NO
[ ]  [ ]  I support an independent TRNC (in particular if Lebanon
          is the only alternative)

[ ]  [ ]  I support an equitable and fair settlement of the properties
          and assets lost during the 'intervention' (assets != land %)

[ ]  [ ]  I support an independent third party group that would have the
          authority to perform such settlements and accept their judgement

[ ]  [ ]  The governments of Turkiye, TRNC, Greece, and Cyprus (greek)
          will all be bound by the results of the settlement procedure.

[ ]  [ ]  The asset redistribution process will be completed in a finite
          and agreed upon time table, in a reasonable amount of time.

My personal answer to all of the above is YES. How's yours?

Spiros
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan)
Subject: Re: Who gets to vote in South Cyprus?
Summary: Palikaria could not even achieve Enosis! 
Keywords: OXI to Federation with ENOSIS minded PALIKARIA!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 22:13:15 GMT
Expires: January 1994

In article <Bz3FAH.2p2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>
>In the lecture at Urbana-Champaign last week, prof. V. Coufoudakis
>said that the emigrants are very different from Turkish Cypriots in almost
>everything. Their way of life, customs, there are differences in the
>language and relegion.  

  Who cares what Coufo* said about the Turkish Cypriots at UC? Did it
change any facts or did he get more claps after he said it? The fact of
the matter is that the Turkish Cypriots' origins are from Turkiye, and 
they are closer in culture, language, customs, religion, and everything
else to the people of Turkiye than the Enosis minded palikaria collection
in Vasiliou Republic of Southern Cyprus. Pound this in in your brain for
a change!

>-- 
>Michalis Syrimis
>University of Illinois
>Urbana-Champaign
>

OXI ENOSIS (Union of Cyprus with Greece), OXI Federation with Enosis minded
Palikaria of Southern Cyprus. 

Cheers,
Okan Baysan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:34:08 GMT

In article <10382.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:
>
>Only recently did Greeks realise what a terrible waste of
>valuable cultural resources that was.

 Resources yes, but valuable? I doubt.

When I was visiting my mother's village (Fourfouras village,
Amarion eparchy, Psiloritis mountain, Crete)
there was NO way that I could understand what my uncle George
(actual name was Peteinarogiorgis, or George the rooster) was
talking about. No way!!! I needed a translator (my aunt).
(Eventhough I could understand OK the "standard" Rethymnon dialect).
I thought that it was rather a waste of time-resources, not 
any gain. Some people know some variations just for the
fun of it; but there is the need for efficient communications
which limits the extend of this.

Just my thoughts!

Gr
From: jdd1@cec1.wustl.edu (James Dimos Dimarogonas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: PHARAOH-MACEDONIANS TOO?
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:30:23 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Dec15.232036.13348@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>In article <10183.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:
>>
>>
>>Metajh mas omws, isws exei bash ayto. H lejh 'Gyftos' proerxetai apo
>>thn lejh 'Aigyptios'.
>>
>>Gyftoi, isws einai. Makedones omws den einai.
>>
>>Mixalhs
>
> Alhtheia, oi gyftoi ti glwssa miloun; Nomiza oti exoun endoeurwpa'i'kh
> proeleush, stenh ths sanskritikhs.
>
> Ws pros to onoma, eixa dei sthn ellhnikh tv guftous na lene oti kanonika
> prepei na legontai Athigganoi (tsigkanoi koinws). Alloi laoi tous lene
> Roma. Oi idioi pws apokalountai; Kanenas ellhnas athigganos akouei;
>
> Ti mileti kai auto! Nomades kai ksero pswmi :-))).

Oi guftoi kai oi tsiggavoi legetai oti proerxovtai ap'tnv idia fuln
n opoia exei tis pnges tns kapou stnv ivdia.  H diafora eivai oti oi
tsiggavoi nr0av stnv eurwpn mesw Rwsias kai oi guftoi mesw mesns avatolns,
e3ou kai av prose3eis diafores sto vtusimo kai sta xaraktnristika meta3u
Ellnvwv tsiggavwv kai guftwv.  Mia deutern 0ewria (pou 0ewrw mallov
abasimn) eivai oti oi guftoi eivai apogovoi tourkwv pou emeivav stnv 
Ellada meta tnv apeleuerwsn, 0ewria omws pou deixvei va upokiveitai apo
alla kivntra.  Dustuxws oi Ellnves 3eroume polu liga giauto to komati
tou pln0usmou mas.  0a ektimousa idiaitera opoies alles plnrofories
0a mporouse kapoios va mas dwsei.

Filika

Dnmos Dnmarogkwvas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE)
Subject: Re: Pronuncation of Greek names in Homer's Odyssey
Organization: University of New South Wales
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:15:35 GMT


ada612@huxley.anu.edu.au (Avery D Andrews) writes:
: In article <1g79ahINN6ef@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>,
:   kd@doc.ic.ac.uk (Kostis Dryllerakis) writes:
: 
:   >	So the controversy will remain live. For us greeks, we would like
:   >to believe that our language is not only close to ancient greek to its 
:   >symbols but also to its sounds. I beleive that I speak for all of the fellow
: 
: 
: I haven't noticed that the `traditionalist' view (that classical
: Greek pronunciation  was pretty much like Modern Greek) has many
: non-Greek adherents, which suggests that its basis is more emotional
: than scholarly or scientific.  And 2500 years is a *long* time for
: the pronunciation of a language to remain essentially unchanged.
: And what is the traditionalist position on Greek pronunciation in
: the vicinity of 700 BC, which is around when the Homeric poems seem
: to be currently thought to have been written down?
: 
: Avery.Andrews@anu.edu.au
: 
: 

	One thing I remeber from school about my ancient Greek clases is
some writing that went " And the sheep would go biiii " ie. the biii
would be a "beta" and then an "hta" now the hta sounds like an "i" rather
than an "e" so it's obvious that pronaounciation has changed. The pontian
language (as far as I can remeber still pronounces "e" as an "i". Am I
wrong ? There are other changes two like colors. When discribing a sceen many
times the chosen colors would be strange. The most comon one (to my memory
again) is the discription of blood being black (or what is now used for the
word black in modern greek). Although I don't think they had the word "kokkino"
ie red but possibly another name for it.

	George
	(using a friends account for these summer holidays)
	(Oh summer for as Down-under :-)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11406 soc.culture.europe:10362
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara")
Subject: Re: Greek Coffee, Reading Turkish grounds...
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:49:44 GMT

In article <5VBLVB2w164w@cellar.org> wfk@cellar.org (William F. Kershner) writes:
>Can anyone explain the art of fortune-telling by reading Turkish coffee
>grounds?  I enjoy my coffee metrio and would like to know more about it.
>
>Bill
>
>------
>wfk@cellar.org (William F. Kershner)
>The Cellar BBS - (215) 539-3043

Well, that is a scientific question! I 'll say whatever I know...

First, all what you are going to read after this line is a fraud!

The part of the coffee cup which is positioned closest to the person
drinking it is the part of the heart. There all the sentimental
issues are depicted...   The opposite part of the cup describes the
"professional" issues. In general it is good for the grounds not to
be very dark. So when you drink your coffee, before it ends, shake
it a bit, then turn it upside down, so that most grounds go away.
You make your future better!

If you have a lot of imagination you look at the shapes the grounds
have done and talk about roads, houses, airplanes, trees, etc.

The bottom of the cup is the deep part of the heart... You make
a wish and put your finger there. If the finger leaves a clear mark
then the wish will come true. If the finger does not catch all the
grounds, then the wish will not become true ... So twist your finger
a bit, when you put in the bottom of the cup. But do this without
the person telling you your fortune to know about it!

Well, the fraud is over

C. Christara
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Help with typing Greek on English keyboard...
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:43:10 GMT

In article <DJ6XVB1w164w@cellar.org> wfk@cellar.org (William F. Kershner) writes:
>Does anyone have a list of set rules for typing Greek words in English
>phonetics translation?  I've noticed that many of you are submitting
>articles using phonetic equivalents.  Is there a standard that you are all
>using?  I'm just learning the language and I think reading and writing Greek
>on the net could help.  I have a few books that give their versions of the
>phonetics, but don't you think we should all try to use the same
>translation?  Ellinika einai ena oraia glossa!! but how to spell it out in
>English is quite a problem!!!  Help!
>
>________________________________________
>William F. Kershner
>wfk%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
>wfk@cellar.org
>----------------------------------------


I hope that CS people will give a more complete answer, but from
my understanding from previous discussions there is no universally used
standard transcription yet (at least on the net). Most of the people use
the phonetic correspondence, but few use an iconical one. All
of us actually use mixed forms. For someone with good knowledge
of the greek language is usually very easy to understand what
convention is used for each article posted. More importantly,
many people don't follow the standard modern greek grammar, but
instead map the sounds only, not the written forms. I know that there
is a standard for trancription of greek letters to latin ones
used by the interior ministry to type greek names on the passports
(but it is not widely used for other purposes yet).


Gr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Did you know?
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:40:45 GMT

gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:

>In article <1992Dec17.120434.329@ifi.unizh.ch> lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos) writes:
>>
>>Did you know that Odyseas Androutsos, one of the most famous Greek national 
>>heroes, was mouslim? (Mouslim Greek).


>Did he convert? I know that he was a christian vlach from Olumpus mountain
>(then in Macedonia).

Odysseas Androutsos belonged to the order of Betaktzis(or sth like that), a 
syncretistic sect (Muslim+Christian) widely widespread in many parts of the 
Ottoman empire during those days. I think that today it is mainly limited 
in Albania(or at least it was until 50 years ago).  

I guess we cannot tell to what degree this sect represented his religious
beliefs or was a political/tactical decision(use the order's lodges, not
to be harrassed by Muslims, etc). The story goes that when he made his 
stand in Gravia, the Ottomans sent a hotza to ask him to evacuate the 
place. Hotza's were sacred persons for the members of the order. And yet
he shoot him down as he was approaching.

Well, it's been quite some time now since I read the history of the Greek
revolution. That's all I remember about Odysseas Androutsos and his religious
beliefs.

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
From: tsiout%thailand@cs.yale.edu (Dimitris Tsioutsias)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Turkish minority in Greece ????
Date: 16 Dec 1992 14:36:40 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: terminator.ai.cs.yale.edu

So, you that support the above view, can you tell me how is it
then than an "oppressed" minority in Greece can elect 2 representatives
into the greek parliament? How many Armenians or Kurds does the 
turkish parliament have? Since Kurds are 20% of the Turkish population
I would expect a reasonable number between 12-30, right??


->dimitris
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Pharaoh-Macedonians too???!!!:-)))
Originator: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:38:26 GMT



Searching in an electronic database I found the following item.
Can this be true? Does anyone know any more details?


===============================================================================

         AUTHOR  Sudetic, Chuck.

          TITLE  Pharaohs in Their Past?  So the Yugoslavs Say.--News.

         SOURCE  New York Times: Nov 21, 1990, A, 4:3

         LENGTH  Long (18+ col inches).

       FEATURES  Map, Photograph

       ABSTRACT  A growing number of residents in the ethnically mixed republic
                   of Macedonia in Yugoslavia are claiming descent from ancient
                   migrants from the land of the Pharaohs.

===============================================================================

Let's see what other creative designs in ethnic engineering will the
powers support :-))). This reminds me of the designs by the British, 
early in this century, to support a Minoan Kingdom on Crete!


Gr
From: cla04@keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Jan Morris on Greece
Date: 19 Dec 92 11:22:04 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England


Extract from a piece by the historian and travel writer Jan Morris in
today's (19/12/92) Times Saturday Review supplement, entitled Motherland
of Give and Take:

'Macedonia is a popular issue of the moment, with feeling apparently
running high that to allow the southernmost Yugoslav republic to use
that name would be a dastardly infringement upon the historic Greekness
of Macedon.  In tourist areas, huge and meticulously executed graffiti
proclaim the slogan "Macedonia is only Greece".  In hotel lobbies,
posters emphasise the significance of Macedonian Hellenism and at
duty-free shops stickers turn your bottle of olive oil into a propaganda
machine.  In my ignorance it seems to me a somewhat childish campaign -
as if Greece had not emnity enough with Turkey - but then a streak of
immaturity is part of the Greek ambience...'

And so Greece's posturing loses her another friend. Perhaps one day the
Greek government will realise just how much damage its psuedohistorical
campaign is doing to Greece's image abroad. The new year is normally a
time to make resolutions for a fresh start. It would be nice to think
that one could be passed in Greece to behave reasonably to the Republic
of Macedonia, but I'm not hopeful.

Merry Christmas

Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu (Hariklia Delta)
Subject: Re: MAKEDONIA - What's in a name (3/5)
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:35:14 GMT



> Well, Macedonian is certainly not Greek, but a Slavic language
> closely related to Bulgarian. As for ancient Macedonian, there
> are uncertainties what it was. However, only a couple of lunatics
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> believe that it had anything to with modern Macedonian.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My point exactly! Since "Macedonia", "Macedonian" and "Macedonians" 
(in the sense you are giving to these words of course), as you just
admitted, have absolutely nothing to do with the corresponding ancient 
ones, then why should this new state called "Macedonia"? Wouldn't it
be better (and more reasonable) if you found a name that has something 
to do with your people? Since, as yourself admitted, this name has nothing
to do with you and your historical inheritance, can you please explain why
you are so paranoid about it and why you refuse to leave the use of the 
name to the ones who have some (or a lot) of connection to it? I bet your 
people have nothing to do with Incas as well. Why don't you call yourself 
"Republic of Incas"?


                                                Sincerely yours,
                                                  ---  Hara


Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Sampson and Greek Cypriot arms acquisitions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:54:24 GMT

I would like to make a couple of points on the post of
baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan)

>Are you, by any chance, related to Palikari Sampson? Well, just for your
>information, he is free! What do you have to say about this, Michali?

Sampson was tried and convicted to 20 years in prison for his part on the
July 15 coup.  If he committed any other crimes let him be tried for those
too, along with everybody else, Greek or Turk.  What I want to know is
how many people were tried and convicted by the so called TRNC for crimes
against Greek Cypriots.  I don't understand the fuss about Sampson's release.
First his role in the coup was minimal, and second he was convicted and
payed for his involvement.  I am in no way defending Sampson here.  He was
a criminal and had to pay for his crimes.

>blood thirsty palik Aloneftis ('South Cyprus defense minister' in charge of
>buying missiles, helicopters and tanks). Period!

Cyprus must defend itself against further Turkish aggression.  To use the
DEFENSIVE acquisitions of Cyprus for propaganda and to present Cyprus as
the aggressor is ridiculous.  Cyprus is in NO WAY capable to attack Turkey
and has no plans to do so.  But if you think that 1974 will be repeated
again you are mistaken.  Compare the military capabilities of Cyprus with
those of Turkey and you can reach your own conclusions.  Greek Cypriots
have long proposed a complete dimilitarization of the island.  The Turkish
and Turkish Cypriot answer was, of course, no.

>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan.
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: PHARAOH-MACEDONIANS TOO?
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:09:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>       ABSTRACT  A growing number of residents in the ethnically mixed
>                  republic
>                  of Macedonia in Yugoslavia are claiming descent from
>                  ancient
>                  migrants from the land of the Pharaohs.

Metajh mas omws, isws exei bash ayto. H lejh 'Gyftos' proerxetai apo
thn lejh 'Aigyptios'.

Gyftoi, isws einai. Makedones omws den einai.

Mixalhs

MUTLU FODDER LINE 1: Free Northern Cyprus Now!
MUTLU FODDER LINE 2: Free Western Armenia Now!

And from the Christmas scene in New York:

WCBS 101.1fm is running a contest giving winning participants free
tickets to (quoting verbatim) 'European cities like Rome, Athens and
Constantinople'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile, the Rockefeller center (where the NBC studios are), continues
its annual display of flags from around the world, around the famous
scating ring. No Star of Vergina flying there, I assure you, even
though the flags are up to date. No TPseudoRNC there, either.

And, can anyone tell me what country has a blue flag, with a white blob
in the middle (presumably a map of the country), and some arabic
lettering inside the blob? Just curious.

Mixalhs.
                                                                                                          
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros GAVRILAKIS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Movement of Capital
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:26:17 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne



EC : Exemption for Greece.

<<Greece has obtained a further postponement, until the 30th of
june 94, in the introduction of the free movement of capital which
came into force within the EC on the 1st of july 1990. The Economics
ministers of the twelve admitted that Greece will need to maintain
the restrictions on the short-term  movement of capital for 18 months.
Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal had obtained in 1988 certain
exemptions on the liberalisation of movements of capital until 1st
january 1992.>>
LNQ

-------------

sg