HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 23:47:51 EDT
From: <DAB16@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Faulkner Question

In article <1992Apr8.185320.2424@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jsw21124@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Joseph S. Walker) says:
>
>Does anybody know where the phrase "found not death" comes from?  It's
>something that Quentin says several times in THE SOUND AND THE FURY, and
>I have the nagging feeling that it's a ref to something.  If you know,
>Jazz Walker

It sounds to me like a possible translation of phrasings in Homer, as
in "But he found not death waiting for him in the monster's lair,
    Though it devoured many comrades who had sailed with him
    From sandy Ithaca..."
That is no exact quote, just an approximation from readings of various
versions over the years.  When I have a chance, I'll look at what's
on my shelf, but Faulkner would have to be citing something older.  The
phrase just struck me as typical of English renditions of Homer.

Francis Muir suggests Coleridge, and that's possible given Faulkner's
qualified admiration of the romantics.  I exempt, of course, the later
pseudo-romantic (really Victorian) Tennyson, to whom Faulkner would
apply more than the epithet "dreary" that Francis accorded the
proprietor of Yoknapatawpha County.  Faulkner's approximation of
Tennyson is in _Light in August:_  "the gutless swooning of sapless
trees and dehydrated lusts...it was like a eunuch in a cathedral
chanting in a language he did not even need to not understand."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dennis Beach                                BITNET: DAB16@PSUVM.BITNET
Penn State University                     internet: dab16@psuvm.psu.edu
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wanted: Readers
Date: 24 Mar 92 21:23:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: eff.1992Mar24.212344.17704
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <10078@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>A fellow employee hear said that, rather than admit there might be
>at least a FEW things that are right or wrong, not culturally
>determined.
>
>Other friends have been told the same thing by other liberals,
>similarly trying to justify that there is NOTHING absolutely
>right or wrong.

Ah, I knew it was a scientific conclusion.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: reading in bed
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: rec
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:37:53

What is the most convenient arrangement people have found?
What equipment is best?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: cs204b00@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Pat Conroy and stereotypes
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:00:03 GMT


   I love Pat Conroy's books, BUT...

   ... how many times can he retell the same story?
   
   Someone should start a list of Conroy stereotypes! :)  Here are a few:

   1. The harsh, "down-to-earth" father. (Bull Meechum, Henry Wingo)

   2. The tortured daughter. (Mary Anne Meechum, Savannah Wingo)

   3. The beautiful mother. (Mrs. Meechum, Lila Wingo)

   4. The jock son who doesn't meet his father's expectations (Ben Meechum,
         Tom Wingo, and (to a lesser degree) the main character in the Lords
         of Discipline).

   5. The beloved English teacher. (Ogden Loring, Tom Wingo, the piggish
         professor in The Lords of Discipline).

   6. The beloved, gruff mentor. (The Bear and his real-life inspiration, 
         The Boo.)

   Recurrent themes:

   1. Racial integration. (The Lords of Discipline, The Great Santini, The
      Prince of Tides, AND "Invictus" (Conroy's TV movie))

   2. Northern culture vs. Southern culture. (Again, all three books and
         the TV movie.)

   3. The dysfunctional family. (The Great Santini and The Prince of Tides).
         Ever get the feeling Conroy had a really rough childhood? 

   4. The "big game". (Usually basketball (Santini & Tides) or football (Lords
         and Invictus)

   Anyone have an idea when Conroy's next book will appear?

   Finally: I love Conroy's books! I really do! I just keep getting this
incredible feeling of deja vu when I read them...
                       -----> Kelly Morrison, Auburn University
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:36:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr15.233632.6419
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Originator: jon@cyclone


In article <1992Apr13.133700.886@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> 
> This sounds like Lewis. Most Americans (Statesmen?) don't seem to realize
> just what an assole C. S. Lewis really was. This is a prime example. 
> 

If being deliberately literal to make a point makes one as asshole, then
I'm one as well.  I would say calling someone an asshole in a public
forum might qualify a person for the label.


-- 

<jon@mitre.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: n2412@cray.com (Joe Green)
Subject: Re: C.S. Lewis (was Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:25:16 CDT

In article <1992Apr14.105703.9681@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>
>References: <1992Apr13.133700.886@morrow.stanford.edu>  
>
>
>In a previous article, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) says:
>>
>>This sounds like Lewis. Most Americans (Statesmen?) don't seem to realize
>>just what an assole C. S. Lewis really was. This is a prime example.
>
Wonderful.  I have lived a long time gadding about hither and yon and
here and there on the Earth persecuted by persons quoting Lewis
on Milton, or slipping a copy of "The Screwtape Letters" in my
satchel or gabbing about the Inklings, or insisting that I lean
my cheek against theirs as we read out of Perelandra, or listening to
blabbing about Arthur and the wonderfulness of all that
nervous type of Christianity that finds Christ in tweeds
worrying about elves as I slave over my 18 minutes eggs
and only want to recall the glorious night of the parting
of the mu mu and I have never heard anyone call C.S. Lewis
an asshole -- not even me longing to shake my spatula at
my beloved and shout "He was an asshole!"

Until now.  What date?  April 14th.  April is the coolest month.
Thanks, Francis.	



> 


-- 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:8084 soc.history:3642 soc.culture.jewish:8095
From: vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:36:41 GMT
	<1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com>
	<1992Apr9.142342.16989@hemlock.cray.com>
	<1992Apr10.195958.25042@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
	<VANCE.92Apr10151438@kyoto.speech.sri.com>
	<1992Apr13.1439
Organization: Speech recognition group, SRI
In-reply-to: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu's message of 13 Apr 92 14:39:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.143924.1281@watserv1.waterloo.edu> msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:

	[I wrote:]
	How do you know this is the content?  Isn't it rather the form which
	contains all that exquisitely controlled narrative prose?  Why
	privilege the "theme", and this one way of extracting it?

   I'll assume, Vance, that you understand that I was talking about the
   way *I* read Joyce (and not even that, but only about the way I
   have read Joyce).

Fair enough.  Most people, though, when they deploy the form/content
distinction, do so as if it were sound, i.e. corresponded to something
that is the case with the artifact in question.

   Sometimes we use language to entertain or to evoke emotional or
   intutitive response. Sometimes instead we use it to try to describe
   something that actually *is the case* with the world in which we live.
   Even sometimes when this something is ineffable. I consider
   it a fair question to ask whether a certain sincerity about this
   last endeavour does not or should not motivate the very highest
   art.

And I consider it a *strange* question (but then my metier is really
music).  I could formulate a counterargument, to the effect that we
are beings whose transactions with the world are carried out in and
through language, and thus that the book which calls most subtly and
thoroughly on our faculty of language is the richest and most sincere;
but I'm not into arguments on the merits of genres or media.  However,
I consider it a fair observation that Joyce felt _Ulysses_ made
contact with things that actually were the case with the world in
which he lived.

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Isaac Asimov Dead ...
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 15:36:21 GMT

... at age 72.

JR
From: mcmanus@patty.cs.wisc.edu (Ted!)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Children's book name wanted
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:32:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: spool.1992Apr9.213258.11820
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Apr8.211121.13770@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@lost-boy.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>
>In _Bartholomew and the Oobleck_, the king decides that he's tired of the same 
>old weather and wants something different.  His wizards come up with "oobleck"
>as the solution, and go through some incantations to make it so.  Oobleck seems 
>to consist of drops of green goo falling from the sky.  This causes lots of
>problems, depicted in classic Seussian fashion, though I forget how they are
>resolved.

I loved this book!  It was the only Seuss book that I owned besides The Cat
in the Hat (another book in which there's nasty precipitation: "The sun did
not shine.  It was too wet to play.  So we sat in the house all that cold,
cold wet day..." (or something like that))!

If I recall, the Oobleck was much like green gobs of Superglue falling from
the sky.  Birds were stuck to trees, cooks were stuck to their pots, 
washerwomen stuck to their washtubs, and the king ended up stuck to his
throne.  And only when the king said "I'm sorry" did the oobleck melt away 
and the sun began to shine once more.

- Ted McManus         Charles Dickens was caught by the Devil
		      Stealing the Devil's chickens.
		      "What the dickens!" said the Devil.
		      "What the Devil!" said Charles Dickens.

			- Willard Espy
From: yms@carp.cis.ufl.edu (Yuh-Ming Shyy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: mystery book
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:28:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.


A friend of mine just recommended a mystery book "Talking 
God" by Tony Hillerman. I would like to know is there any 
one who has read or heard any book by this author. Any 
comment or information is welcomed. Thanks. 

email: yms@carp.cis.ufl.edu


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: This Present Darkness/Piercing the Darkness.
Keywords: Darkness
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:57:22 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

This is basically in response to the lady who asked if we had read any good
books lately.  The two books which I have named, This present darkness and
piercing the darkness, by Frank Peretti.  These are two of the best books,
that I have read in a very long time.  I know that they have actually been
on the market for a while now, but they are still way up on my list.  Peretti
(if u haven't read them) shows life through three plane's: the mortal, the 
angelic spirtiual realm, and the demonic spirtual realm.  The book is actually
considered to be Christian Fiction, which I understand because of the constant
references to the spiritual realm and prayer power through christ, but the 
book is not preachy, it tells a story within several realms using the christian
faith as a mediator.  The book is very well written, keeping u involved and
fairly left in suspense until the very last page.  If you have read Peretti's
novel "This Present Darkness" and liked it. The motion picture is going under
production in about a year.

Just thought I would share my thoughts.
Really good books
Shay B.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Cruelty in Human History (was Re: The Painted Bird)
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:16:16 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Mar26.224236.6426@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <1992Mar26.155952.18406@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
# #I also think its because the Nazi holocaust is better publicized.  There
# #are numerous books, movies, museums and the camps themselves in 
# #Germany.  There are groups dedicate to keeping the memory alive.
# 
# Uh, there was a fellow named Solzhenitsyn who wrote a few words about the
# Soviet camps. It's not that the Soviet camps were underpublicized--it was
# that theey were different in character. Read THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO and
# compare it to, say, Primo Levi's THE DROWNED AND THE SAVED or A SURVIVOR
# IN AUSCHWITZ.
# 
# Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis

How many movies have been made about the Holocaust?  How many about
the Soviet mass murders?  The Holocaust gets FAR more attention in
the popular media.  

I'm not arguing for less attention to the Holocaust -- but more
attention to the Soviet Union's savagery.  Unfortunately, until
very recently, serious criticism of the Soviet Union was considered
evidence that you were a "right-wing extremist."  The reason was
because much of our intelligentsia were in profound sympathy with
the Communist Party.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"The mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a
favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace
of God." -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mfriley@wpi.WPI.EDU (Margaret F Riley)
Subject: Used Bookstore--Massachusetts
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:15:34 GMT



I found this wonderful used bookstore in Sudbury, MA, on Rt.20 about
17 miles west of Boston, so I thought I would pass the word on to the
many other bibliophiles and bibiliomaniacs on the net.

Bearly Read Books
320 Boston Post Road
Sudbury, MA   01776
508-443-4034

owner: David Van Buskirk.

Sorry, no fax.  No phone orders, but inquiries and requests taken over
the phone.

Wonderful place.  hard and paperback books.  Right now, he has over 30,000
volumes on the shelves.   Very reasonable prices, and he will keep a card 
on file with you personal wants and notify you if something comes in you
might be interested in.   David is also a self-studied expert in several
subjects and will readily guide you to stuff you might have missed.

Cash, checks, and Mastercard accepted.  (didn't check on visa or amex, 
sorry.  no discover card.)

Cats in the store too, so if you are allergic, call ahead.  Open Sundays.

Have a great time!

Margaret
mfriley@wpi.wpi.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:09:18 GMT

weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>
> Pynchon provides a different experience to the reader than Dostoevsky.
> The good reader realizes this and responds in kind.
>
> GR is certainly not a Pollock-like creation.  It has strong patterns
> and interconnections and movements and themes which simply cannot be
> presented in a traditional format, is all.

    Fair enough, but how does one read this non-traditional format ?
    I've been told - and she certainly _seemed_ serious - that my 
    mistake was in reading it "page by page", and I'm quite sure that 
    this indeed is my problem - I just can't quite figure out what 
    it means. Are you _supposed_ to understand what's going on - 
    or are you just supposed to let the images sort of wash over 
    you or something ?  


--
                                                        vince@gda.cadence.com
    And in the battle on the streets 
    You fight computers and receipts
        - Pete Townshend
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:54:19 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

A little gem is 'Yalta Victim', by Zoe Polanska-Palmer, a Russian
who was subjected at the age of thirteen to the medical experiments of 
the infamous Dr. Mengele in Auschwitz.  These experiments were sponsored 
by Bayer IG, and senior directors visited the camp and observed them.

She also witnessed the forcible repatriation of the Cossacks as a result
of the Yalta agreement.  She was living in Dundee, Scotland in 1986,
when the book was written (Mainstream Publishing, Edinburgh, ISBN 1 85158 
001 8).

ian


---
Ian Heavens				ian@spider.co.uk                 
Spider Systems Ltd			
Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland		+44 31 554 9424 (Ext 4166)
--
From: fap@crosfield.co.uk (felix power)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Tolkien way..
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:34:54 GMT
Reply-To: fap@crosfield.co.uk (felix power)
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

>In article <morteng.34@loke.dhhalden.no>, 
>morteng@loke.dhhalden.no (MORTEN GRAESBY) writes:
>> Second: The other day I read a book by Lloyd Alexander titled The Book of 
>> Three, a real Tolkien- style story with heros, dwarfs and evil men.
>> The book has it's own "versions" of Frodo, Gandalf and Sauron. Hereby 
>> recommended! (Well, Tolkien is still the superior, of course).
>> Have any of you net- people read anything by this author? How's the other 
>> books in the saga of Taran the Assistant Pig- Keeper? (Does he become a 
>> hero?).

It's good stuff isn't it? With lots of gentle humour and growth
of characters.

There are four more :

The Black Cauldron (made into a Disney film I think)
The Castle of Llyr
Taran, Wanderer (I think?)
I forget!

I think when you read other others you'll remap your characters
but I suppose I should say how or it'll spoil it.

If you enjoyed these you should try the "Dark is Rising" series
by Susan Cooper.

Over Sea, Under Stone
The Dark is Rising
Greenwitch
The Grey King
The Silver on the Tree

The first one is disappointing and could perhaps be missed but
the other four are Celtic, Arthurian and completely absorbing.
Very highly recommended!


-- 
  o____                
 (}:^)      Felix   
  8---- 	  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu (Steven Parks)
Subject: "Reginald Peacock"
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date:  7 Apr 92 17:56:54 GMT

Yesterday I ran across the name "Reginald Peacock" on a student's ID,
and i got the strangest case of deja vu.  I got the distinct feeling 
that I'd seen the name before, sometime during high school.  
Granted, I should have asked him about it, but I didn't have the chance.

So I post here, asking:  Can anyone here on the 'Net think of a short
story, novella, or other publication that included the name "Reginald Peacock"?
--
Are you bored? -Join Hell's Angels by mail.
Steven Parks  (309) 677 1271
SnailMail: 1312 W. Main #104 Peoria, IL USA 61606 
E-Mail:  nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu    or    nudnik@buhub.bradley.edu
From: vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:34:46 GMT
	<1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com>
	<1992Apr9.142342.16989@hemlock.cray.com>
Organization: Speech recognition group, SRI
In-reply-to: n2412@cray.com's message of 9 Apr 92 19:23:42 GMT


In article <1992Apr9.142342.16989@hemlock.cray.com> n2412@cray.com (Joe Green) writes:

   No, Ulysses is the greatest comic novel in English.  This means that
   it is the greatest novel.  

Feeling a little pontifical, Joe?  You have this great habit of
presenting syllogisms which are missing a few terms, leaving us the
amusing game of filling them in.  Here I guess a conjunction of
"Comic novels are the best novels" and "English novels are better than
foreign novels", each of which requires a little persuasion.  Care to try?

(Not that I have any trouble with the idea of _Ulysses_ as best novel
(how is this different from "greatest"?), but I don't have your
confidence -- yet.)

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Novelist seeks 1645-1660 England info
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:23:44

You could try the records of the General Assembly of the Church of
Scotland for an allegedly nonfiction source of information about
the period 1645-1660.  You might find another gem like


"I beeseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you
may be mistaken". - Cromwell.  Letter to the General Assembly of
the Church of Scotland, 3 Aug. 1650
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: A Poem for Ninka
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:13:08 GMT

About a month ago I commanded Joe Green to please write a poem for
my enchanting young cousin, Ninka van der Zee, who was lying in a
hospital bed adapting to a bone-marrow transplant. Within a week Joe
had come up with four poems and a letter for Ninka, and all these things
I printed out and bundled up and sent back to London. As a kind of 
reinforcement, I asked Annette Bergmann if she would record Joe's stuff
on tape, and she cheerfully agreed -- we added Kit Smart's Cat Jeofrey
and his Sonnet on Colors (both from his *Rejoice in the Lamb*). Ninka
received the packages last week and showed the poems to my cousin Hilda 
on Tuesday. The next day Ninka died. This is a devastating loss of a
very talented young lady, but how glad I am that I was able to show her
my love in this way. With Joe's permission I am posting the third of
his Poems for Ninka.


	Beside her bed
	there is a vase with one flower.
	Just before sleep
	the flower seems a red-glowing cloud.

	When she closes her eyes
	the flower inside the cloud awakens.
	Conjured by solitude and beauty it opens
	as she sleeps.

	This flower is a world.

	Temples and palaces and
	distant villages all in this one flower!

	She dreams of a city.
	Peach and plum trees shade the roads.
	A white jade palace.

	Inside the palace
	gowns with women bright as green hummingbirds
	sing "Celeste Aida."  

	Their wings hurt.
	A slash of ruby at their throats.
	They hope that radio will be discovered soon.
	
	They dream that the emperor will love them
	nevertheless

	The flower beside your bed.

	Not impossible.	

					Joe 

Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Faulkner Question
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:27:19 GMT

Joseph S. Walker writes:

	Does anybody know where the phrase "found not death" comes from?  
	It's something that Quentin says several times in THE SOUND AND 
	THE FURY, and I have the nagging feeling that it's a ref to 
	something.  

It may be no more than a negation of Coleridge's self epitaph:

	Beneath this sod a poet lies, or that which once seemed he--
	Oh, lift a thought in prayer for S.T.C!
	That he, who many a year, with toil of breath,
	Found death in life, may here find life in death.

In any case, it is more amusing than Faulkner's dreary phrase.

					Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books