From: rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es (Alejandro Rivero)
Subject: Re: Plot Vs. Interactivity
Reply-To: rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es
Organization: Department of Theoretical Physics. University of Zaragoza
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:36:13 GMT

In article 8988@news.duke.edu, jao@teer1.acpub.duke.edu (JOSEPH OSWALD) writes:
 
->Not to criticize, but to get a better idea of what would be involved in a 
->real work of multi-player IF
->
->
->Just thought of this--in an Infocom-style game, I often save the game at
->a certain point so that I can try several options, restoring each time one of
->them doesn't work out. How does that sort of saving affect the status of other
->people in the game, and what implications does that have for the kind of
->trial-and-error play that is often a part of Infocom puzzles?
  
This is not really a problem, each player saves his status and the server machine 
stores the world status.
 

->Of course, that gets back to the original problem--in the movie, the screen-
->writer can FORCE one character to drive up just as another character finds
->a lost treasure, or whatever....That's how farce works--forcing what would 
->be otherwise unlikely scenarios. But if the one character is left behind because
->he couldn't figure out how to open his (game) bedroom door this morning, because
->the landlord character forgot to have it fixed....then the whole thing collapses.
->
I think this FORCE is typical in all classic plots. It is called FATE. Think of
Edypus (edipo), by example, or Macbeth...  

Hmm this point could be worked a little. 
 

->Again, it's very hard for me to think of an example of a plot with essentially
->1) independently thinking
->2) independently acting
->characters going through "plots" with 
->3) independent results
->
->but still remain within a plot structure thought up in advance by one person
->and still require enough
->
->4) co-dependent participation/cooperation/competition (I like the first 2 better) 
->
->that it makes sense to have multiple people playing!
 
I think of an *really classical* example: Odisea, from Homerus.
(which I suposse actually not copyrighted, so if someone want to try
a implementation, feel free... :-)

Main players are Ulysses and Telemacus.
One stars from egan sea, perhaps traped in Cyclops cave; the other starts from 
Itaca, in Ulysses home. So (1) and (2) are fullfilled

going for (3), minimun requeriments are different for each player.
Ullysses goal is return to Ithaca. Telemacus goal is finding Ulysses, dead or alive.

as for (4) we can observe that the happy ending -which could be not 
necessary, thought on examples above- condition, or *aditional bonus*, implies
the cooperation of both character. They both want to clean the pretenders
out of the house, eventually kill them. but here comes the puzzle:
Telemacus is young, have not authority, and not the power to fight alone.
Ulysses can not enter in his own house, it coulde be atacked by the pretenders
before he were unable to get his bow (and sword, etc) which are in house,
waiting for him.
I refer you to Homerus to see as the puzzle is solved.


-Alejandro Rivero
Theoretical Physics
Zaragoza Univ, Spain
Disc:        ! I have not relation with Beyond Juslibol authors!