HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:58:19 GMT
Organization: -


In article <BsyMpC.2IL@well.sf.ca.us>, lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond) writes:
> 
> Well, I've gotten my new 12'x15'x2' pond all dug, marginal shelf and all,
> trying to decide on vinyl vs. rubber liner, etc. and suddenly realize I've
> got a BIG problem.
> 
> Well, I've realized a big logistical problem: I want rocks to surround the
> pond and be the liner holder-downers. So I figure that's maybe 50-60 one
> foot in diameter round flat bottomed rocks. Well, the woman at American Soil
> Products tells me they're likely to be 75 lbs. each, and the only way they
> can get delivered is to dump them, expecting breakage, at the top of the
> drive (or wherever). Then anything else - the couple of big flat rocks I
> wanted on the edges, or the one big one for the middle, these'll be
> completely unmovable, I guess. So what am I going to do? Even if I forgo the
> big ones, the edging ones begin to seem impossible. Do I have any workable
> alternatives? Yikes!
> 

There are several companies here (San Diego County) that sell/make
artifical or cultured rocks.  This may sound pretty phony looking at
first, but they are not.  The ones I saw at the Marriot on San Diego
bay fooled me.  The clue was that there were recessed lights in some
and speakers in others.  I think they had used some kind of granite
dust to cover them.  Also, the zoo uses lots of artifical rocks too.
So maybe you have local source.  No idea what something like this
would cost.

On them dumping the rocks in your driveway, I suggest you check with
other sources.  I had rocks delivered on pallettes enclosed in 
reinforcement wire cages.  There were no damaged/chipped or broken
rocks.  Also, weight and density vary a lot between types of rock. 
However, I find I can't handle anything that weighs much over 75 lbs,
mainly because they are awkward and they were going up hill.

Oh one other thought, I also used broken concrete from some old patios
for several low walls and lots of walks/pathways.  When you flip the
concrete the other side looks pretty natural.  Concrete weighs much
less that any of the rocks I've worked with.  Again it sounds fake or
ugly at first, but it isn't once you get plants etc. in place.  In
fact, I notice that several of the building supply places sell fake
broken concrete.  Seems kinda strange to me since there is a big free
supply.

Jim
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cover crops / "green manure"
Keywords: cover crops, green manure
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:45:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <1992Aug20.224246.2362@news.nd.edu> rohrs@bach.helios.nd.edu (dan) writes:
>I read a nifty ad about the benefits of planting cover crops
>in one's garden for the winter and turning it under in the spring.
>Does anyone have any experience with these that they'd be willing
>to share?  The ad suggested a mixture of winter rye and hairy vetch.
Vetch won't grow in the winter where I am. Seeds from previous year
usually sprout in Spring and grow vigorously, out competing many weeds.
It's a real nitrogen builder. Perhaps a better choice as a companion to
rye would be tall sweet clover; it doesn't grow in winter but sprouts
early Summer to mature at full height (as tall or taller than the rye)
after the rye matures, dyes and falls over; the clover grows completely
through and over the rye which by then has become mulch for the clover.
The rye will then sprout in Fall and grow through the Winter, fertilized
with nitrogen fixed by the clover. Unless you want to get involved with a
soil building program using this scheme the rye should be tilled under
just before it sets seed. As it exerts an allo[pathic effect on the soil
you will need to allow a few weeks before planting anything else in its 
place. I would apply fish emulsion, manure or some other source of nitrogen
immediately to the tilled-under rye to make it break down quicker. Rye is one
of the best cover crops, the best for Winter in my book. Austrian Winter
pea is supposed to be good but I have no experience with it. Milo, Sudex
or sorghum-sudan grass is excellent planted in May or June; it will
survive hot weather in grand style; plantings sown on relatively
untilled/somewhat crusted over soil will germinate fine. Grain amaranth
(can be ordered as food from Jaffe Brothers in California), sesame (food
grade works fine), coriander (inexpensive from natural foods stores by the
ounce or pound - or m.o. from Frontier Herbs - they offer it in vacu-sealed
1 lb. foil packs), edible soybean, crimson clover, red clover, barley 
(winter), oats are all great green manure crops for food, hay mulch, weed
control and soil building.

>One concern I have is if I plant such a crop of "green manure,"
>will I end up spending all next year weeding the winter rye and
>hairy vetch out of my garden?  The ad seemed to imply one simply turns
>it under and the plants are gone.
Be sure to cut it under before it seeds out.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: patt@squid.tram.com (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Sunflowers : When to Harvest?
Organization: Tramway Unix Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:59:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.gardens 
Summary: Sun Flower Seeds

Thankfully we staggered our plantings of sunflowers and we now have
two of the GIANTS with their heads drooping and the yellow petals all
gone, sepals all beginning to turn yellow and lose their green color.
The leaves on these giant sunflowers are mottled with yellow and brown
and the plants seem to be realizing that their season has come and
gone.

The birds are not bothering the giant sunflowers at all :-)

The sunflower seeds in the heads look as if they are developing
beautifully and we are wondering if we need to cover the heads with
paper bags to protect them; whether we should leave the heads on the
plants and let them dry out or cut the heads off and bring them in to
a cool, airy place to dry out.

Can anyone offer advice on harvesting sunflower seeds from the heads
of giant sunflowers?

Thank you in advance.



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                     -       patt@squid.tram.com
Tramway Unix Systems in Naturally Beautiful BrUtish Columbia   :-)  :-)
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty." (Anne Herbert)
From: rehak+@KIEL.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Daniel Rehak)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: pressure treated lumber
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:56:34 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Originator: rehak@KIEL.EDRC.CMU.EDU

While I have not read all of the reports, the professionals I know
lead me to distrust CCA pressure treated, and other manufactured wood
products.

My neighbor is in the millwork business, and processes a lot of
lumber.  He will not touch CCA pressure treated lumber for anything
(of course he and his workers have much higher exposure to splinters,
sawdust).  From the lumber/wood professional literature, he thinks
EPA may ban it in the next couple of years.  The bromate treated material
seems to be an acceptable substitute, but is not widely available.

The contractor who built my house avoided all "manufacture" wood
products, except plywood (e.g., chip board, particle board).  In addition
to concerns about the house environment from the chemicals outgassing, they 
too did not want their workers exposed to the chemicals.

Personally, I try to avoid CCA, but for essential ground contact (retaining
walls, and under decks, but not walking/wearing surfaces) where the
alternative are too expensive and the exposure risk is low, I have used it.
However, I handle it only with gloves, long sleeves (even in summer), safety
glasses, bag sawdust for landfill, and treat it with respect.

	- Dan
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben)
Subject: Re: Bugs on vinca
Keywords: bugs,vinca
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:18:48 GMT

In article <maoh.714022688@phyast.nhn.uoknor.edu> maoh@phyast.nhn.uoknor.edu (Maureen O'Halloran) writes:
>I have white bugs or eggs? on my vinca groundcover.  They are littlee
>rod-shaped things on on the underside and along the center of many of
>the leaves.  The leaves themselves are spotted with yellow splotches.
>Little means very tiny about 1 mm?  Its not mealy bugs, or at least
>not the kind I sometimes get on my houseplants.

I can't tell from this description.  There are too many things they could be.
The yellow spots might well be from some cause other than the white things.

>Should I panic or just leave them alone?

Leave them alone.  I don't know of any particular pests of vinca, but vinca
strikes me as one of the most indestructable plants known.  If it really
looks worse next year, then I'd worry.

>Also does anyone know anything about Cottonwood Borers (giant yellow
>and black beetles from outer space).  What's their life cycle? Is
>there any thing I should do at certain times of year to protect my
>Cottonwood trees?  I've only seen one Borer, which may have wandered
>in from somewhere else, because my trees look very healthy.

Most longhorn beetles (family Cerambycidae) feed (as larvae) on recently dead
trees or branches.  Larger ones usually on fallen material, but some actually
girdle or cut off twigs or branches and then lay their eggs on them.  Some
species take more than a year to mature.

I've only collected one Cottonwood borer (on the bank of the Dismal River in
Nebraska): they're beautiful.  Not the largest American Cerambycid by far,
but perhaps the most attractive.

Mike Huben
From: rohrs@bach.helios.nd.edu (dan)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: cover crops / "green manure"
Summary: question on use of cover crop
Keywords: cover crops, green manure
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:42:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tellabs Research Center, IN

I read a nifty ad about the benefits of planting cover crops
in one's garden for the winter and turning it under in the spring.
Does anyone have any experience with these that they'd be willing
to share?  The ad suggested a mixture of winter rye and hairy vetch.

One concern I have is if I plant such a crop of "green manure,"
will I end up spending all next year weeding the winter rye and
hairy vetch out of my garden?  The ad seemed to imply one simply turns
it under and the plants are gone.

Any advice or personal experiences with cover crops would be of interest
to me.

Thanks,
	Dan

-------------------------------------------------------------------

dan@trc.tellabs.com

Dan Marchok
Research Engineer
Tellabs Research Center
3702 N. Main St,  Bldg II
Mishawaka, IN  46545
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Summary: alternative materials for pond liner 
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 01:46:40 GMT

What about using a used (or new) swimming pool liner in a pond
or even remnants or seconds of landfill liners. There's a company here in NC
that makes these things. Reputedly they made the liner for the largest
landfill in the US. A chicken processing plant near here bought a second
to line a large composting trench with. 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: CCDH001@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Heat wave vs. surefire tomatoes
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:00:46 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin

On July 4th a new variety of tomatoe (how would Dan Quayle spell this?)
was debuted to the public.  Though not developed at Texas A&M the surefire
was tested there for several years.  They pronounced it a fit tomatoe for
summer gardens as it would set fruit even in high temperatures, was
disease resistant, resisted splitting and matured in 60 days.
 
This sounded perfect when I read about it.  (But then so did prairie
buffalo grass!)  So I got some.  At the same time I saw another summer
tomatoe variety called heat wave.  I figured I'd have a race between
the two.  At this mid stage I would have to give the nod to the heat wave
variety on sheer number of fruits.  There are about a dozen fruits of
various sizes on the heat wave and only two or three on the surefire.
 
I thought I'd provide periodic updates for those still contemplating their
fall gardens.  When I have actual tomatoes to compare I'll give you a
personal taste comparison.
 
                                    <@>
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Eco-lawn mix?
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:50:00 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

I have been contemplating Nichols' "Southland Ecology Lawn Mix"
for reseeding my dead and drought-dried lawn, when the rains
come again to California (hahahahahah!).  Has anyone had any
experience with this stuff?  

I guess what I want to know is how it compares to normal
grass, with all this clover and wildflowery stuff mixed in, in
terms of mowing, general appearance, etc.  (Actually, you
can't get much worse than the appearance of my lawn at the
moment, which is Very Dead.)  How does it stand up to traffic?
My husband always cuts across the lawn to his car in the
drive, so will he wear a path in this stuff?  Does it die back
come summer?  (I noticed some of the ingredients are annuals.)
It sounds pretty and charming, but is it practical?

(I've been considering giving up on the lawn entirely, what
with the drought, and putting in bark or gravel, but I really
am still considering a last gasp for my poor old front yard.)
--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

I've worn high-heeled pointed-toed fashionable shoes for the past 
twenty years, and you ask me about if *getting tattooed* hurt?!
From: Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:27 PDT
Subject: Re: Salt vs. Concrete
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug20.174248.18887@meaddata.:-1486929861:cdp:1453300079:000:43
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 21 17:27:00 1992


How about just a spoonful of Borax?

chris

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: archiel@sun_archielcom (Archie Lachner)
Subject: Re: Huge green bugs eating my tomato
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:46:25 GMT
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1992Aug11.202848.6039@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Aug11.235444.6044@news.mentorg.com>, archiel@sun_archielcom (Archie Lachner) writes:
|> > The premise being put forth is that, if we all spray BT on our tomatos, then the
|> > orchid is history.  Given this line of reasoning, if we all skipped growing
|> > tomatos for a summer or two, then the moth and the orchid are doomed.  Do you
|> > really belive that?  I certainly don't.
|> 
|> Nope, my premise was that BT is a _living organism_.  It can spread.  It is
|> not selective as long as the host has a certain gut pH.  You can put it
|> on your tomato hornworms, but you might accidentally get other species,
|> some of them ones you wouldn't intend.  
|> 
|> There's a big difference in my mind between using a non-selective, pesticide
|> that can actually INCREASE in the environment-- remember BT is living --
|> and using a carefully targeted, biodegradable, non-living pesticide --
|> especially when there are simple tactics like caging a couple of plants,
|> handpicking, or trap crops, that allow me both to harvest a crop and
|> have the non-target species.

I was under the impression that BT degraded and died after a few days exposure
to the elements (sun light, etc.).  If what you say is true, many of the organic
gardening suppliers, magazines, etc., have been leading us astray on the safety
of BT.  Anybody out there with definitive information about BT's persistence
in the environment.

|> 
|> In my experience, the worst garden plagues I've ever had have come a year
|> or so after I've upset the system with pesticides.  When I leave everything
|> alone, and let the various species coexist, I find that I can get good
|> harvests (sometimes a little gnawed or specked, but I can live with it)
|> AND DO VERY LITTLE WORK.   It's why I call myself a slob gardener:
|> I prepare the soil, I plant, I weed and mulch, and I harvest.  I might
|> cage a few plants occasionally, handpick a few critters, encourage my cats
|> to nap in the garden to discourage the rabbits, and I rip out diseased
|> plants, but that's it.  And that's my style of gardening.  Others are
|> welcome to theirs.
|> 
|> Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

I'm glad that you are keeping an open mind about how other people chose to garden
in an environmentally responsible way, even if it doesn't fit your definition
of the term.
-- 
Archie Lachner
Mentor Graphics Corporation
Wilsonville, Oregon
archie_lachner@mentorg.com
From: jaya@encinitas.Eng.Sun.COM (Jaya Holla)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Irritating plants  (Re: Cashew Tree ...)
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:17:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: encinitas

>Jon Noring writes:
>>
>>The cashew tree's nearest relatives are in the same family (or maybe even
>>genus) as poison ivy and poison oak.  I believe the leaves and bark contain
>>some quantity of the same poison that is in poison ivy/oak, but to a much
>>lesser extent.

I did not get a chance to follow-up on the Jon's original posting.
Lest anyone get an incorrect impression, the only part of the tree/fruit that 
is bad for you is the juice that comes out when you crush the covering of 
the whole cashew-nut.  Also, juice from the cashew apple can stain clothes, the
fruit tastes quite good.  FYI: I have climbed the cashew tree with no ill effects! 

			Jaya
From: elefante@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (GUEST Luigi Elefante)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HELP ME! California Sierra Redwood
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:06:30 GMT

In article <1453300072@igc.org>, ecologycntr@igc.org (Ecology Center Fund) writes:
> 
> Dawn Redwood is known botanically as Metasequoia glyptostroboides.
> It's a beautiful tree, differing from the Redwood and the Big Tree
> (as we call them here in CA) in being deciduous and having much
> flared roots.
> 
> chris

Hi, 

how I can distinguish the different types of Redwood?

Do you know books about this?

Massimo Barontini
maxb@king.ICO.Olivetti.Com
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed starting FAQ; FAQ report
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:31:51 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Aug21.163507.11886@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London) writes:
> Did you receive my e-mail about the availability of a site for FTP
> and mailing list?

Yes, and many thanks.  Our mailer seems to be having a few off days-- will
try again this pm.  --- Kay

Sorry for the interruption, folks.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond)
Subject: HELP! I planted trees!
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:51:17 GMT


Aggh. Planted trees. Am freaking out.

Planted: in 24" box, upright green Japanese Maple

         in 15 gallon: small decorative weeping narrowleaf Japanese maple
                        Yoshino cherry
                        Chinese elm

also in 15 gallon one tibetica cherry which I dug up and put back in larger
container.

Worries: some people say you can't water too much - esp[ecially in August
makes the roots go deep
water twice a day

other people get worried looks and say "look at your tree - it will tell
you" but especially don't water too often - maybe every few days.

Aggggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!

So the two Japanese maples look ok I THINK!
A little brown at the edges but it is edging towards fall and there were a
little like that anyway.

The yoshino cherry the top leaves seem a tiny bit droopy and curled into
themselves (not all curled up or anything), the other cherry seems to be
almost ready for its leaves to turn yellow and fall off.

HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP! (please!)
From: dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek)
Subject: Salt vs. Concrete
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:42:48 GMT

We have a concrete driveway with weeds in the cracks.  I'm ready
to put salt down to get rid of them, but my wife wants to be sure
it won't hurt the concrete.  Any confirmation or refutation welcome.
Thanks,
Mike Dedek

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Subject: Re: Salt vs. Concrete
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:53:05 GMT

     Salt can definitely attack concrete, especially, I believe, fresh
concrete.  Why not use Round-Up?  It is environmentally as mild as
an herbicide gets and is quite effective, and can't kill concrete!

Vince Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: archiel@sun_archielcom (Archie Lachner)
Subject: Re: Huge green bugs eating my tomatoe
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:05:51 GMT
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <Bt6wsJ.Bnz@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug18.003256.23037@news.mentorg.com> 
|> archiel@sun_archielcom (Archie Lachner) writes:
|> >I doubt your actions will have much effect in preserving either species.  
|> >A better way is to preserve some of the habitat in which both naturally 
|> >occur.  Have you ever heard of the Nature Conservancy?  You might find that 
|> >it interests you.  I am a member, but I'm still going to keep spraying the 
|> >bugs in my garden with reasonably safe stuff that's doing minimal, if any, 
|> >harm in the grand scheme of things.
|> 
|> The Nature Conservancy, (TNC), is doing great things, however don't be 
|> fooled into thinking that two of every species is going to fit on that ark.
|> It may pay to try some conservancy at home, instead of just sending some
|> money to someone else to take care of it. Also, TNC's approach is to lock
|> up land away from humans, this approach may not be sustainable in our
|> coming over-populated future. The only sustainable approach may be what you
|> can accomplish in your own back yard and in your own neighborhood and the
|> habits and techniques you pass down to your children and other's children.
|> 

I think you have somehow received misinformation regarding the Nature
Conservancy.  That organization's approach is not to "lock up land away from
humans" as an exclusive matter.  Instead, human use of the land that does not
threaten it's preservation as habitat has been undertaken in several instances.
This has included harvesting of clams in Cheasepeak Bay (sp?) and modified grazing
practices in the upper Great Plains.

I also think that you missed my point above by a wide mark.  Preservation of
species is far less likely to be achieved in the snippets of habitat that our
backyard gardens represent than through larger preserves that are maintained by
an organization dedicated to the purpose and with the longevity to do so.  Who
knows what the next homeowner will do in what is now your back yard?

Finally, I believe that many members of the Nature Conservancy would resent what,
intentionally or not, your statement above about sending money to that
organization as their sole means of contributing to the stewardship of the
environment implies.  Many members, including myself, recycle everything that they
can and attempt to manage their own property in an environmentally responsible
manner.  The fact that some individuals disagree on the effects of a specific
organic insecticide (BT) should not detract from such efforts.  
-- 
Archie Lachner
Mentor Graphics Corporation
Wilsonville, Oregon
archie_lachner@mentorg.com