HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Witches and death
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 01:30:28 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <Bvn03E.4Dx@stonehenge.wltshr.uk> itu73@stonehenge writes:

 >      I think you guys are all wrong.  You  see,  the  cycle  goes
 > from  the  lowest insect life all the way up the chain to humans,

No, we are not all wrong. The discussion is simply incomplete.

 > followed by the highest form of life, rocks.  You may laugh,  but
 > you  must understand that rocks are the physical manifestation in
 > our plane of existence of what most people  consider  disembodied
 > spirits.   Can't  you  all  see  that?   When we, as humans, die,
 > depending upon whether we have we have  correctly  prepared  our-
 > selves,  we  ascend  to  the next plane, leaving our mark in this
 > world as Rocks, or we are forced to endure the lives of those  we
 > have tormented or wronged, possibly in many bodies.

Yes, I do agree entirely with this idea, especially since rocks are of
the Mother. But some rocks, not just rocks but places, also emanate a
powerful and tangible children's spiritual presence. Walking into such
places is a similar experience to entering a first class Daycare centre
and have all the children at once run up laughing and chattering to
greet you.

Really so beautiful and invigorating, overwhelming . . .

 >      Lets keep discussing this topic in here in this forum.

Yes please do, all.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech....definition
Date: 6 Oct 1992 13:53:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Look at it this way. Our society encourages stupidity and not thinking
and all that, right?

Within five generations, the stupidity in our society, currently elevated
to a form of sex appeal, will be at a critical mass. Everyone who believes
that being dumb is A Good Thing will have bred together. The people who don't
believe this will have, hopefully, had smart children. The stupid ones, mean-
time, will be so bad by then that all the smart ones will need to do is wait...
and the others will die off. FAST.

(this from the person who actually sat there and figured out how Smurfs breed)
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Offerings...
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:48:05 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

Kimborly, I like the subject line and would like to offer a(nother) poem as
well.  I wish mine were as much in the spirit of worship as yours and Bekki
Lyn's, but they are what they are and you're helping me learn (broaden my 
scope).

Here's one for the Bitch Goddess (Morgana, is it, Bran?)

               Red
 
Last night
I dyed my hair
red.
It feels dramatic.
It's a much more exciting color
than my usual mix
of blonde/brown/red.
When I look in mirrors,
I feel vibrant.

With red hair,
I feel free
to express
parts of me
that I've hidden
under
mousy dishwater blonde.
I can get angry and bitchy,
I can dance in the streets,
I can feel sexy
and feminine
and carefree
and wild,
and I can blame it
all
on my hair.
 
So why has Mom
deprived herself
of the freedom
of her naturally fiery hair?
 
 
Barclay Blanchard
July 5, 1992


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: another poem
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:56:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.001414.14336@ncsu.edu> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>I think that what Marty said has value.  Thanks, Marty.
>

Thank you, Barclay...I offered it with good faith in case it might help.

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: C&E
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:48:03 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <BvM30M.77s@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M
HaleEvans) writes: 

>In article <1992Oct3.161644.11539@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: 

>>AAH! Light dawns! I think you mean C _of_ E, short for Church of England. I
>>am not sure if this is the same as Episcopalian, 

>Don't know about the exact books you're discussing, but Episcopalians are an
>extension of the "Anglican communion", which also includes the Church of 
>England. The two have separate structures and administration, but are 
>definitely connected in doctrine and ritual. [...]
>know is that the hymns and service texts are virtually identical. Just my two
>shillings' worth. :->

The Church of England is the official church in England. The Queen is
head of the church (I think) although shee is queen of Britain not
just England (in theory).

The official church in scotland is, not surprisingly, the Church of
Scotland which is very different from the CofE. People who want the
CofE high-church trimmings in Scotland go to Episcopalian churches and
asr referred to as 'Piskys. When I was young I thought people were
talking about the Pixies, and hoped to meet some... ;-)

Two favourite quotes about the CofE:

The Church of England - the Conservative Party at prayer.

The Church of England is one institution which interferes neither with
a persons politics or their religion  :-)

These are widely quoted, but if anyone knows the original attributions
please tell me.

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 02:06:54 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:

> In article <53HXRB1w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us writes:
>  > 
>  > I have seen no signs, after many years of study, of a convincing modern 
>  > pagan philosophy of death, or at least one that wasn't lifted whole clth 
>  > or manufactured by one of the 'founding fathers'.

> There is also the dancing, and songs from the Law to be included in
> rituals which are also from everywhen, but they are very extremely
> powerful. You must sit with the elders to learn them if you want to
> become a keeper yourself.

I know what you mean.

I tend to think that a genuine modern pagan teaching about death will 
pretty much arise in this way-- through the mythopoeic efforts of many 
individual practicioners, myths and explanations that get filtered 
through the community and eventually boiled down to a unique new spectrum 
of "teachings". 

The challenge of each "nbew religion" is to explain the sacred experience 
in better, more accurate, more _effective_ terms than the religions of 
the past.

Your myth includes the shamanic explanation-- does modern paganism need 
to include more explanations from the worlds religions, or is the 
shamanic enough?

I guess it depends on what you want to get out of the whole pagan 
trip....

Later, Bill
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Generic term for the divine etc.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:35:33 GMT

In article <2OCT199216354386@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>
>I had a school teacher that use to use the term HP for Higher 
>Power.  She use to talk about "good ole HP".
>
>Tammy

Why do I envision a Cosmic HP putting people onto a big stack and going

heavenhellhellhellheavenheavenhellheavenhell . . . etc.

Sorry.  I HATE rpn.

Blessings,
Janis  



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: clucas@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Jean E. Clucas)
Subject: Witches in Salem?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 02:22:54 GMT
Distribution: usa

I will be in the Salem area for about a week, shortly before 
Hallowmas. I've heard that Salem has, in addition to a well-known
history regarding witches, an active pagan community at present.

Does anyone out there have suggestions for a pagan visitor to
Salem?

Please respond by mail. 

Thanks,

Jean
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Subject: Re: a nice experience last night
Originator: blchapma@c00466-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:24:07 GMT


|> In article <Rs7wRB16w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
|> (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
|> 
|> >birthdate 11/18/63 one somethign in the afternoon, wilmington
|> >delaware, aries rising, moon, mercury, venus, mars in sagittarius (a
|> >good chart for having a bad temper *grin*)
|> >
|> >so, what's everybody else's?  i'd been meaning to ask...

Let's see....

Birthdate 12/31/66 around dawntime.  All I remember right now that my
sun is in Capricorn, alas!  :-)
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Thanks
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:22:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep30.154101.3863@news2.cis.umn.edu>, jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes...
>Hello to all -
> 
>My name is Jill, and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who post
>regularly to this group.  I just discovered you about a month ago, and
>have enjoyed the humor, support, and sharing that goes on here.  I am
>a solitary practitioner, and its really nice to have found a group I
>can participate in.
> 
>I'm sure I'll be posting more in the future!
> 
>Blessings
> 

Merry Meet, Jill !!! 8-)

Tammy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,rec.org.sca
From: vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James)
Subject: Re: Wiccan and the SCA
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:11:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.235906.1@fnalno.fnal.gov> holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
)In article <1992Sep21.053430.27389@edsi.plexus.COM>, grimmund@edsi.plexus.COM 
)My complaint is that the Pentacle has been singled out, no classified with the
)Swastika, for banning from official heraldry.  The pentacle is a holy symbol of
)my religion, akin to the Cross, the Mogen David, the Crescent moon, the Yin
)Yang, etc.  If all religious symbols are banned from official heraldry, then I
)have no complaint.  If, as I am given to understand, the Pentacle is the only
)holy symbol being so treated, then my religion is being singled out as one that
)the SCA wishes to disassociate from.
 
)Yet again: If my understanding of the ban is incorrect, then correct it.

	Others have sent corrections, but no one has pointed out that
there are other symbols which, while not explicitly banned in the rules,
have been or probably would not be registered as well.  Up until the
rules change, it is extremely doubtful that arms with a Crucifix would
be registered, and there is a fair bit of doubt in my mind today.

	Curiously enough, of the list you provide, one is kind of generic
(the cross is a nearly universal symbol, with connotations besides 
Christian ones), one I've often heard refered to as a state, rather than
religious, symbol, one is pagan (the Crescent and Star, if that is what
you are refering to, is not a symbol of islam, but of arabs, and has its
origins in that use well into our period), and the Yin-Yang symbol is one
of philosophical, rather than religious, meaning.

Kwellend-Njal
-- 
Vnend, Lottery winner #316                 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.  
vnend@princeton.edu, vnend@pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend        
        Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend@ms.uky.edu                          
              "Exploding food is both messy and dangerous."
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: proposal alt.discordia...
Date: 4 Oct 92 08:48:55 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <92275.165909IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
writes:
>Hi all
>    Recently in Alt.Conspiracy there has been a suggestion
>regarding forming a new newsgroup called alt.discordia.

>>I propose that there be a newsgroup called alt.discordia.
>>
>>It would be devoted to:
>>        - Discordian stuff, i.e., Erisian philosophy, discussion of
>>          Discordian literature (Illuminatus!, the Principia Discordia,
>>          etc.), ideas for pranks and pseudo-pranks
>>
>>It would fnord also be a great place for Discordians to meet on the Net.
>
>    Since there has been interest in this group regarding
>Discordia I thought I would cross post to see if there
>was anyone who thought this would be a good idea.
>    Anyone know what the procedure is for forming a new group?

I beleive the info can be found on alt.config ...  (And I definately would be a
regular reader of alt.discordia!)

+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Krikket              | krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us | USnail: 3 Danada Sq. E. !
|a.k.a Doug Krick     |NOTICE: Your Milage May Vary|   Suite 246             !
|Data # 708/665-9732  | #include<std.disclaimers>  |   Wheaton, Il 60187     !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|                What God wants, God gets, God help us all!                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr@radian.uucp (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Summary: flame bait!
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:49:08 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <P2omRB3w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us>, wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
> wrasman@cs.utk.edu ('Walker Of Change') writes:
> 
> > Most of the witches I know believe in re-incarnation. It's not something nail
> > down in the group I know. Some don't even call themselves witches. The majori
> 
> 
> Now this makes me wonder where this 'wiccan' belief in reincarnation 
> comes from? 
> 
> How about Summerland? Happy Hunting Ground, anyone?
> 
> Perhaps some reasearch into the older mystery-religion views on death 
> might be interesting. 

Actually, Iwonder, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, if you
have a choice nowadays, since there are more people alive, *now* than
have *ever* lived. Or are there just *lots* of first-timers?

	mark
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:46:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I've been taking a course in the literature and history of ancient Israel
for some time now... this is in regards to T.O. Radzykewycz's
statement about jealous gods that won't allow any competition having
serious problems.

According to Professor Flanagan- oh, don't give me that, he's not a priest
or anything, he's a REAL LIVE archaeologist, seems to be into the 'beat-
on-the-Bible-with-a-baseball-bat-until-it-gives-up' school of bible study-
the oldest narrative in the bible- not prose, that would be 2 Samuel 9-20-
is in Exodus. Specifically, Exodus 15, verses 1-18, and then verse 21. (The
intervening bits were inserted at a later date). According to various 
studies of this section, it's generally agreed that verse 11, among other
bits of Exodus, show (in the original Hebrew, mind ye, and I've got a printed
version of the Hebrew right here) that the Israelites believed in other gods.
And that God knew they believed in other gods- at least, this is how the
ancient authors, whoever they might have been, viewed it. It's merely that
the Israelites who wrote this bit were trying very, very hard indeed to
cast off their time in Egypt, and rejected their polytheistic past as 
violently as possible. Under their form of radical Yahwism (it wasn't Judaism
yet, that word doesn't appear for many many years yet, this part of Exodus
dates to about the twelfth century BCE), YHWH was a god of those who had
fallen outside the system. Unlike the Egyptian gods, who were tied to specific
places, this was just a god of one people- and they had to be a people of
one god. They did accept that there were other gods, but this one was theirs,
and they had to stick to this one.

I don't know if that counts, or if it's just random junk to you, or what.

-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:09:12 GMT

itu73@stonehenge (George Bacon) writes:

>     I think you guys are all wrong.  You  see,  
> Can't  you  all  see  that?   
[ excerpts from your `discussion' ]

>     I'm sorry if I have intruded on  anyone's  sensibilities  or
>beliefs,  but I am firmly convinced that what I have tried to ex-
>press is the Truth.

>     Lets keep discussing this topic in here in this forum.

Just a suggestion George..if you truly want to have a discussion and
not a flame-war..I suggest you think of different ways of presenting
your opinion then the first two excerpts. It sounds a bit officious.
I think most here are willing to discuss it, as long as one doesn't
start telling everyone else that they are wrong and start preaching.

Do what you will..just a friendly piece of advice.
/al

>George Bacon
>itu73@stonehenge.wltshr.uk
-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Little Boxes (was: another poem)
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:27:37 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: bc3532224a6781e9cda575a39589ee80

michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin) writes:
>pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
>   ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>   >>*chuckle*  yup.  and the problem is that a lot of non-mainstream
>   >>people wish desperately that they were part of it.  i don't understand
>   >>it myself.  a line from a poem i read in grade school comes to mind:
>   >>"and they're made of ticky-tacky and they all look the same."  granted
>   >>it is nice to be like SOMEONE, but why be like everyone?
>
>   In article <10411@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> erik@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>   >My contribution, for now, is that the quote is from a Mama Lion something
>   >song about rows of suburban houses. She's written some good stuff. And i
>
>  =Hmm, it's a folk song about South San Francisco, I thought it was Peter,
>  =Paul and Mary.
>
>Thought it was one of the Seegers myself .(Pete, not Bob, I think..)
>(That is, the song about ticky-tacky, not the suburban houses.)

Well, the song is "Little Boxes", written by Pete Seeger.  According to
the information I remember from Sing Out! magazine, Pete Seeger wrote it
in response to views of "suburbia america" that he saw in a wide variety
of places in his travels around the country.  In an interview, Pete
said, "these little boxes can be anywhere.  Near any of the big cities.
I've seen them at both ends of New Jersy, New York, California, and in
Texas, and Massachusetts and Idaho.  I guess it was the miles of houses
in New Jersey, up there by the George Washington Bridge, that really set
me off enough to write the song." (Probably paraphrased a bit -- from
memory.)

	Little Boxes, on the hillside,
	Little Boxes, made of ticky-tacky,
	Little Boxes, Little Boxes,
	And they all look, just the same.

	There's a green one, and a blue one,
	and a pink one, and a yellow one,
	And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
	And they all look just the same.

(Memory fails me at the moment, I used to know this when I was a folksinger
and coffehouse habitue.)

					Wolfe
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!wolfe   ...duke!wolves!wolfe    <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu    wolfe@cds.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: etc.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:29:19 GMT

st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) writes:


>	3. Melissa wanted to know what kind of music people listen to. I am a
>music major and consider myself a classical musician. I do a lot of work with
>musical theatre, partly because I've done stage tech. for it and partly
>because I am going to be a music teacher and kids like stuff from musicals
>better than they like the stuff that is written for children's choruses these
>days. However, I do listen to some heavy metal--I ignore the lyrics, which
>are often homophobic, racist, anti-female or just plain stupid, and listen
>to the music, which is often very good. Of course, I also listen to pagan
>folk stuff like Gwydion, and British Invasion rock, and '50's stuff, and...
>well you get the point. I'd love to discuss music thru e-mail if anyone's
>interested.

One metal band I like is Manowar.  I don't remember the name of the album I've
listened to--I think it was "The Metal Kings".  I know that that is the name
of one of the songs on that album.  The imagery is interesting--heavy metal
Quarter-call figures.  One of these days, I *really* want to see Mayhem (one of
the members of my Community) call Quarters with them! :-)  The song, "Kingdom
Come" is also excellent for energy when working.  Mayhem also uses Metallica
substantially, but I've never tried it for work--but for listening.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark