From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,soc.college,soc.women,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:39:14 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr12.174643.14068@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> Followups directed out of a.f.c....
> In article <1992Apr12.123401.4989@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Apr9.185513.15773@news.iastate.edu>, mds@iastate.edu (Mark D. Smucker) writes:
>>> 	``A 1990 national survey of more than 12,000 students
>>> 	by the Campus Violence Prevention Center at Maryland's
>>> 	Towson State University found that about half of all 
>>> 	reported acquaintance rapes were committed by frat members
>>> 	and athletes.''
>>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>break it down by percentages. What porportion of the population are fraternity
>> members and athletes? How many rapes were fraternity members?
> 
> Why is it relevant?  The point is how all-male social organizations
> perpetuate stereotypes and provide behavior reinforcement that leads
> to rape.  I assure you that fratoids and athletes make up well under
> half of the college population.
> 
>>> 	``A 1990 study by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>>> 	concluded that 34 of the 54 reported sexual assaults were by
>>> 	fraternity men, even though they represent just a quarter of
>>> 	male students on campus.''
>>
>>Hmm... how was the study conducted? You have to watch these things, I learned
>>in an Experimental Design class. For example, I understand that only something
>>like 10to 20% of rapes get reported. Maybe a disporportionate number of rapes
>>by fraternity men are reported. This would mean the vast number of unreported
>>rapes (which outnumber reported rapes) are by nonfraternity men, and therefore
>>most rapes are done by nonfraternity men. 
>>See, you can twist data to mean almost
>>anything, if you work at it... you have to be sure your stats are done on 
>>reliable studies.
> 
> Well, this study will have to be pretty darn unreliable before one could
> question the hypothesis that fraternity members commit a disproportionate
> number of campus rapes.  Did you do any of the calculations?  Let's give
> you the full benefit of the doubt, assume (1) that 90% of the rapes weren't
> reported, and (2) the null hypothesis that fraternity members don't
> commit a disproportionate number of campus rapes.
> 
> 		Frat Rapes	Non-Frat Rapes		Total
> Reported	    34		      20		  54
> Unreported	   101		     385		 486
> Percent Reported   25.2%	      4.9%		 10.0%
> 
> (Or we can try a more realistic 20% report rate..., just to show that
>  I'm not choosing numbers.)
> 
> Unreported	    33		     183		 216
> Percent Reported   50.7%	      9.8%		 20.0%
> 
> Either fraternity members are five times more likely to rape or
> victims of fraternity rapes are five times more likely to report the
> rape.  (Or some combination in between, which doesn't hurt the conclusion
> that fraternity members are more likely to commit rape.)  Do you
                                                            ^^^^^^
> have any reason to believe that fraternity rapes would be much more
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> likely to be reported?  Ex ante, one would expect the opposite:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I read somewhere that 80% of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. 
I would think that a rape by a stranger might be reported more often than an
aquaintence rape. I would also think that rape via stranget might be what we're 
talking about at fraternity parties is more likely, and therefore the kind 
more likely to be reported. With such a large sample unreported (80-90%), I 
think that we cannot make any assumptions as to who commits the largest number
of rapes. I also think trying to peg rapes to one group is dangerous; it leads
to the idea that rapes are perpetrated by some groups and not others.

I also think that we have to change attitudes at a younger age. I saw a study 
on TV where 35% of high school boys thought it was ok to force sex on a drunk
girl. I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.

Mike