HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:58:46 EDT
From: Sonja Kueppers <SEK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Contemporary Scholarship on Lesbian and Gay Lives Lecture Series

Lisa Henderson (School of Communications) and Anthony D'Augelli (HDFS)
are again coordinating the Contemporary Scholarship on Lesbian and Gay
Lives lecture series here at Penn State University.

This year, the lectures will be as follows:

Sept 30 (Wednesday) 8pm, HUB Assembly Room
   Barbara Macdonald, activist and writer
   WOMEN DIVIDED: THE POLITICS OF AGEISM

Oct 19 (Monday) 8pm, 101 Agricultural Sciences
   Lillian Faderman, University of California (Fresno)
   NAKED AMAZONS AND QUEER DESMOISELLES: A HISTORY OF LESBIANS IN
      20TH CENTURY AMERICA

Nov 7 (Saturday) 8pm, 121 Sparks
   Gregory M. Herek, University of California (Davis)
   HATE CRIMES AND HETEROSEXISM: THE SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY OF VIOLENCE AGAINST
      LESBIANS AND GAY MEN

Feb 2 (Tuesday) 8pm, HUB Assembly Room
   Essex Hemphill, poet, editor, and critic
   READINGS FROM BLACK GAY LITERATURE

March 3 (Wednesday) 8pm, 101 Agricultural Sciences
   Jewelle Gomez, poet, novelist, and critic; Director of the Literature
      Program of the NY State Program on the Arts
   ROMANCE AND MYTHOLOGY: WHERE CAN WE GET IT? DO WE NEED IT?

April 8 (Thursday) 8pm, 101 Agricultural Sciences
   Scott Tucker, activist, poet; founding member, Philadelphia ACT-UP
      (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power)
   THE MANY EPIDEMICS OF AIDS: QUEER REVOLT AND HEALTH CARE

Please feel free to contact me for more information on these lectures.
-Sonja
-----------------------------Sonja Kueppers------------------------------
|SEK@PSUVM (bitnet)                 | Center for Academic Computing     |
|SEK@PSUVM.psu.edu                  | Senior Student Consultant         |
|                                   | Help Desk Consultant              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Vintage Bobbie
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:30:56 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.




In article <1992Aug28.041045.28703@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>Trying to pretend that something doesn't bother you while
>simultaneously attempting to beat it to death is pretty
>unconvincing.

/(anderson)
/You're mixed up.  Again or still.  

Nope.  

BTW: I passed a milestone with this thread.  I have six threads about
me (at least), and this makes four new threads you've started about me.  

I feel truly flattered to be receiving such attention from you, Jess.
(But of course, you aren't paying any attention to me at all, are you?)



(anderson)
/Bobbie the person doesn't
/bother me.  His ideas (or what passes for them) do.  

Horseshit.  "Bobbie the person" bothers you a hell of a lot more than
any ideas I post.  Your postings have been personal from the very start.
That's what makes it so much fun to watch.

If you had presented any concise, calm arguments (even *one* will
do, Jessie), then I might believe you.  You haven't, so I don't.



(anderson)
/I don't
/care that much about him, but I'm very much against most of
/what he represents in his postings here.  I can see it
/annoys the dickens right out of him, but I *will* say so.

Annoy?  Hell; I WANT you to keep posting.  I have even thought about
emailing the responses to you just to cut down the response
time.   Jess, my new toy.

Corresponding with some of the motss folks has been enlightening
and informative; elf comes to mind.  That takes thought, and careful
selection of words to convey real ideas.

Dealing with you is about as stressful as watching the grass grow.
It's a lot more entertaining, though. 




(anderson)
/Beating to death and being unconvincing are more in your
/line than mine.  By any objective measure.

You (and soc.motss, in general) do not belong in the same sentence
with the words "objective measure", anderson.
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: *Welcome* to Cabal Talk
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:11:03 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Greetings, Mr. Sarver,


I wouldn't worry too much about any meetings of the nefarious Grand 
Cabal.  Perhaps changing the initial letter to 'B' - thus making it the
Grand Babal - would be more indicative of what would likely transpire 
behind closed doors (certainly, it wouldn't be anything sexual...)

Something like this:

J:  Welcome to Cabal Talk.  Our topic tonight...  *well*  There can be 
only one topic tonight, baby dolls, and you know what that is:  Did you 
hear what Sargon said today?  Did you hear?  

A:  *Yes* *I* *did*

J:  Why, to even *think* about it - why, I'm getting phleklempt...  
That's what I'm getting, phleklempt.

A:  I *know* dear, I *know* and I quite agree.  Phleklempt, you want 
phleklempt - I'll give you phleklempt.  I cannot believe anything even 
remotely passing for human intelligence could have uttered such complete 
drivel as the drivel that has been uttered by that *unmentionable* *man*  
Why, the mind boggles, it certainly does.

K:  You want to know what he is?  You wants mees to tell ya what he is?

A:  Oh, *please* *do* darling, please.

K:  He's a dork, that's what he is.  A dork.

A:  A *dork*?  Darling.  Really.

J:  I am just *too* upset to go on...  Please, give me a moment.  
Please, A, give them a topic...  A topic to discuss amongst themselves 
for a moment.  I'm feeling phleklempt...

A:  Oh, I'll give them a topic, I will.  Here's a topic...  The Bronte 
sisters were, in fact, incestual lesbian lovers.  *Discuss*


[mumble, mumble, mumble, mumble]

J:  I am back, now.  I am back.

A: I am glad, dear.  You shouldn't do this to yourself, you know.  You're 
rouge is running.

J:  Is it?!?!  Oh... Oh, my...  I'm feeling phleklempt again...

K:  Oh, it's not that bad <hrrrwak.... pitoiiieee>  Not that bad at all.

A:  Oh, quite the contrary.  I think it looks *awful*  Those streaks...

J:  Streaking?  Is it really streaking?!!  Oh, give them another topic, 
please...  Please, while I put myself together.

A:  Oh, *very* *well*  Another topic.  Did you see Barbara Streisand in 
the Prince of Tides?  Did you see her?  Of *course* you did.  Did you 
see her nails?  They were like *butter* darlings.  *Like* *Butter*  
Wouldn't you agree?


[mumble, mumble, mumble]

Sincerely,

Matthew Melmon
(with many thanks to Michael Meyers, Madonna, and Roseanne)
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:40:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <thaaang.715418888@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>
>stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep1.170835.9873@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>>>>I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
>>>>>AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)
>>>>I'll check the SF Board of Education and see what the schools have on the
>>>>menu that week.
>>>Great image.
>>
>>Well, what other place has PBJ sandwiches *AND* can seat 40+?
>>Who want's to be lunchroom monitor?
>
>Oh god, we're going to turn hairnets into fetish garb...
>

Uh......I'm confused.  Does this comment require a *>SNAP!<*?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Guess my age and win a valuable prize!
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: ??
Organization: faggots against crossposting
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:31:27 GMT

utterly mysterious to me, and i *know* dave.  never occurred to
me to ask his age, or in fact to wonder about it.  

but dave, yes, age is asked along with dick size, in certain contexts.
it's one of the standard items in personals ads and phone sex
encounters (first name, age, gay vs. bi vs. [incredibly] straight,
race, height, weight, hair color, eye color, facial and body hair,
default roles in sex acts, dick size, cut or uncut, nonstandard
desires or kinks, etc.  age is right up there on the list).

an awful lot of men have very rigid requirements about age, usually
insisting on someone within a few years of their age, sometimes
allowing anyone younger but not anyone more than a year or two older.
then there are those who specifically want much younger men or much
older (sometimes for the Boy or the Daddy role, respectively, but
often quite apart from role-playing).  [18 years ago i did the Boy
role, not because it was really comfortable for me, but because this
guy really wanted it, and he was a sweet man.  i suppose i will
eventually do the Daddy role, for similar reasons, but it's not me.
i've had much younger lovers and boyfriends, but that's something else
entirely.]

so maybe these guys are trying to find out if you're in their
"allowable range".  what's *still* mysterious to me is why anyone
should care so much about actual chronological age, down to the year,
rather than going on the way you present yourself, your interests,
energy, etc.  yeah, sure, there are individual guys with all kinds of
special requirements.  but why should you be piquing the interest of
large numbers of the overly age-conscious?

why not just ask?  once they've asked *you* the question, things are
kind of iffy anyway, right, so why not find out what's going on?

there *are* guys who say they don't want a lover more than a year or
two older than they are, because he's "likely to die on you".  but,
dave, you aren't talking about lifetime commitments here, and anyway,
i can assure everyone from my own harsh experience that lovers can die
on you at any age.

arnold (sorry to end on such a downer)
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sept. 5, Motss Dinner, NYC
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:03:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug26.203704.20030@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>Saturday, September 5th at 7:00PM, at Sung Hai on 10th and west side
>highway the "We're not really the Cabal Cabal" will be meeting to dine,
>and discuss strategy for p-d deployment on the east coast.  Please
>send word to the me if you can attend.  

May I submit an agenda item?  I think ideal testing
opportunities now exist for the model 28M and 33B
restructuring p-ds.  I would like authorization to issue the
boot codes for units Melmac and Sargon.  The test results
may prove extremely useful in the east laster on.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Publicity
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:50:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.205728.22212@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>I'm still waiting to understand how any person could vote Republican
>and still consider themselves human.

To err is human.

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||            -- My Bloody Valentine
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Bobbie
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:16:17 GMT

Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com) wrote:
> 
> I described your dysfunctional attitude and posting habits to
> another person here.  His first question was:  "Is the poster
> from an .edu site?"  
> 
> "Yes, I think so."  
> 
> "That explains it, then."
--------------
Oooohhh!  Anti-intellectual, too!  A real Ammurikan!

Mike Drayton
mdrayton@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: siobhan@microsoft.com (Siobhan Harper)
Subject: Re: Beyond GAY and LESBIAN
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:23:38 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug24.083009.12314@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>>So -- get with the program you homos, bis,
>>bestials, and hets -- omnisexuals _have it all_.
>>
>>
>>
>Guess now we're gonna have to start a group called soc.atmahwb*
>
>*Anything That Moves And Has Warm Blood
>
>(sigh)

Ahem. You really ought to investigate the world of reptiles (THOUSANDS
of little pleasure centers all over the body).

Of course, if you insist on limiting yourself to warm-blooded animals,
there's always the Brazilian tapir of prehensile-snout fame.

Yrs, 

A fellow animal lover
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???)
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:45:10 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <1992Aug22.044819.18054@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>My "proof" is in the lack of real political progress.  We should have had
>an equal protection law (national, that is) by now.  We should no longer
>have a military ban on gays by now.  They're both still with us.
>Do you believe that much progress (social or political) has been made?
>I am pessimistic.

Oh Bob, you must be much younger than I.  The idea that these issues can
be talked about at all is indication of immense progress.   When I was
born these things could never, ever, be discussed at all.

The great progress we have made is to make it be possible that you are
pissed that things aren't done already.

We still don't have women in combat roles, and feminism has a leg up
on Gay rights any way you slice it.

I'm so happy we were so successful.  Can you bide a moment and see history
as you make it?  It is damn hard, but well worth the effort...

Laura
.

-- 
	C unions never strike; they only work to rule.

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PLEASE VOTE!!!
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:54:59 GMT
Reply-To: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Distribution: usa
Organization: International Computers Limited, Reston, Virginia, USA

In response to Ellen's request, I've limited the distribution to usa
only.  My apologies to the rest of the world.  They won't hear them,
of course, since this is usa only.  Oh well...

In article <37261@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:

>I don't frequently see any one crying over the some 10 million(est.
>off the top of my head, could be much more) Chinese and Koreans which
>were killed by the Japanese from 1900 to 1945. In fact the ocupation
>of the area by the Japanese became a 'problem' only when the US and
>other western europeans, in particular Britan, came in conflict with
>Japan for economic access to China.

I referenced the standard example we use to discuss the topic of
vicious persecution of a scapegoated group.  I agree that most
U.S. of Americans need more exposure to the atrocities inflicted
on other groups.  We could also learn about atrocities under Stalin,
against Armenians in Turkey, against Bahai's in Iran, against Kurds
in several countries, against indigenous peoples in South and Central
America, against the natives of Portugese Timor, against natives of
any colony during the days of Imperial Britain, against intellectuals
in Cambodia, against blacks in South Africa, and many more that I've
forgotten or never heard about.  Don't forget the atrocities visited
upon native North Americans and upon blacks enslaved by whites.

The universality of cruelty only underscores the danger in believing
that gays will somehow escape marginalization and scapegoating
simply because "that can't happen any more".

>But then they were all 'gooks' and don't have repsect for life like
>europeans do.

Please don't think my example implied anything about the examples I
did not address.  My posts tend to be long, so I limited my examples.

Your example is a good one, too, although I am not aware that it fits
the category of "people selected as scapegoats and persecuted in order
to draw attention from the real problems at hand."  Does it?  I would
put it more in the category of "people brutalized because they were in
the way", but perhaps I'm wrong, or perhaps the distinction is moot.
Comments?

Michelle
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:30:42 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce):
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>>>   Ah, well, some of us just can't give up old habits; the older Ford
>>>gets, the hotter he is to me.
>>
>>He was 50 on July 13th.
> 
> There is a God.

was that a friday?
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Garth Brooks on "Freedom of Choice"
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:33:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.jhansen.715534408
Distribution: na
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Cornell Kinderknecht writes:

>It's also good to see someone from midwest USA demonstrating that
>people from are not "un-enlightened" like many motss-type (and
>others) seem to think people from midwestern states are.

Is Oklahoma in the midwest?

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Public displays
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 14:30:12 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer):
>> well, it isn't kansas.
>
> Look, I was *born* in Kansas--I
> *know* Kansas, and hon, you're 
> no Toto.

that's ok.  i think you're a strawman.

-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: kellyc@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: That Vatican Epistle
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:11:46 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


A request:

On this side of the Atlantic it has proven difficult to get a copy of the 
text of the recent Vatican letter in which the RC church said it is 
acceptable to discriminate against homosexual persons in employment as 
teachers, sports coaches, in the military, and in housing and the adoption 
of children. 

GLEN, the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, likes to have a copy of original 
wordings of such documents - which probably carry more political weight in 
Ireland than they do in the US and Canada - and do not like to rely solely 
on information contained in press coverage.

The Catholic Press and Information Office in Dublin say that they don't 
have a copy because it was addressed to the American bishops, and the other 
`usual sources' aren't able to get it for GLEN.

Does anybody have a copy of the full text they could send me?

Given the erratic behaviour of our newsfeed, e-mail is preferred.

Many thanks

Cathal

[ob-grammar queen content: is it correct to ask if anybody has a copy 
"they could send me", or should I ask if anybody has a copy
"they could send to me"?]

---------------------------------------------
|     Cathal Kelly                             
|     Ollscoil Luimnigh (Uni. Limerick),    For the benefit of 
|     National Technological Park,          the non-Irish the
| IRL Limerick                              't' in 'Cathal' is       |
|                                           silent and the name      |
      (Ireland)                             is attached to the       |
                                            male of the species.     |
      kellyc@ul.ie                                                   | 
                                --------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: eating at Furr's
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:27:55 GMT

in article <1992Sep3.075036.23776@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (the
delectable nelson minar) asks:

 >In article <1992Sep3.054747.13386@wam.umd.edu> jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N.
 >Shaumeyer, who I've missed) writes:

   >>[It confirmed my feeling that scientific meetings simply are *not*
   >>cruisy things.]

 >Is this true? Why? Is it true for heterosexuals, as well?

 >How would having a "lesbigay lunch" at a scientific meeting be
 >received? 

in reverse order: lesbigay lunches/dinners/receptions/whatever often
occur at linguistics meetings now, thanks to the outil mailing list,
which making it possible to have these events is one of its reasons
for being.  <he writes, cleverly deploying a resumptive pronoun,
but not thereby avoiding unacceptability.>  somebody has to cause
them to happen, of course.  this means advertising (ooohh...
*advertising* one's homosexuality!), for instance by putting a
notice up on the conference bulletin board, or its equivalent.

i assume that linguistics counts as a science for the purposes of a
discussion of scientific meetings (though it also counts as a
humanities field).  the nsf thinks so, anyway.

are conferences cruisy for heterosexuals?  oh *my GOD*, yes!  read the
comic novels of academic life by david lodge for some hint.  plenty of
short-term pickups, and also a surprising number of "conference
relationships" (people with other partners at home who regularly make
a couple at conferences, usually as an outgrowth of one of those
short-term pickups).

kiddies, even *i* have done this.

at conference motss-cruising i have been much less successful, but
then i've tried it only in the past decade or so, at relatively
advanced stages of eminence and age.  i have observed a number of
notably successful motss-cruises among linguists in their 20s, though.
(do conferences in other scientific fields have general parties, with
dancing?  many linguistics conferences do.  are people in other
scientific fields freaked out by motss-couples dancing together and
looking lustfully at one another?  linguists in general seem not to
be.)

arnold (who has explained before how hopeless he is
         at cruising in general)