HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sieh@panix.com (Lui Sieh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is Asian ?
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:33:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Nov18.141820.5536@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) 
writes:
>  and Black females, 1.2%.  So Whites do stick together and have been
>  since day one.  We're the ones that don't stick together, whatever
>  they want to say about us.

In the following hypothetical situation, I'm curious about your answer.

*We have 2 Asian Americans living in very different environments.  We can
*not assume anything about their ethnicity (ie. if they're Chinese etc).  We
*also can not assume anything about their socio-economic class.

Should these 2 "stick together" (as you've used the term above)?  This is
of course, open to the newsgroup for discussion.
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gerrys@ecs.comm.mot.com (Gerry Saqueton)
Subject: Re: Discrimination in Marine Corps Officer Candidate School
Organization: Motorola
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:54:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.231112.4921@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
> 
> In article <lgr7i5INNgvn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me) writes:
> >
> >	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
> 	[Dwight's standard Chinese-cu-bashing following a wonderfully
> 	informative post deleted.]
> >
> >OH CHRIST ON A STICK! You turn a perfectly good informational post
> >into the same ol' Chinese bashing. 
> >
> >You are so obsessed.
> >
> >	Melinda
> 
> Gosh, I never thought I'd see the day when Melinda publically
> deified Dwight as the Savior Incarnate!  So, is Dwight, in the
> persona of Christ-on-a-Stick, Christianity's answer to the
> Popsicle (tm)?  :-)
> 					--Alan Hu
> ----------
> I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.
> 
> I am not a neo-conservative writer for AsianWeek.  I did not go
> to MIT.  I do not conduct phone surveys.  I am not married.
> I do not believe in Dan Quayle's family values.
> 
> Arthur Hu is a fine person.  So am I.  We are not, however, the same person.
> 
> 
I'm asian american and I empathize with Brian Yamashita on this situation, but
please, have a little more respect for us Christians on this net.  Don't use 
my lord's name in vain!

-Gerry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ac6144@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Kanji 
Reply-To: ac6144@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:11:05 GMT

Unfortunately, the original post to which I was responding was in this 
particular newsgroup. I had previously tried to respond but for some reason
only the original post showed up again. Therefore, I posted it in the same 
folder that I saw it in. If, for some reason, you should wish to check that, 
look for a "why?" in the subject header a few posts ahead of mine. As I have
no idea what the purpose of the original post was besides to satisfy personal
curiosity, I merely answered it to the best of my knowledge. I WAS, however, 
hoping that the original post-er would clarify his/her intent after reading 
my response. 

As for your question about relevance, Japanese culture (In my opinion, of  
course) IS an Asian American issue. Although I DO agree that this post AND
my response would have been more applicable in a different newsgroup. So, to 
put this matter at rest, I apologize for any emotional disturbance that my 
post may have caused you.  8^)

Finally, I DO NOT advocate learning Kanji by Asian Americans but since it is 
the basis for written language for many of the E. Asian cultures, I believe
that there should be some level of understanding of at least the history of
it. (Lest it be misunderstood, I am only using the term "kanji" because that 
was the term I started with. I realize that the basis for kanji is the 
chinese characters.) I believe learning "kanji" should be a personal choice 
and if someone doesn't want to learn it, then that's their perogative. 
Likewise for someone who chooses to immerse themselves in that particular 
aspect of a specific culture. 

-JS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Chinese-American Relations (Was: Re: More Money than Votes)
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:49:29 GMT

In article <BxGzp7.IFv@acsu.buffalo.edu> dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei) writes:

>Personally, as a Chinese, I believe Bush will be more beneficial to us than
>Clinton because Bush will probably maintain a better relationship with China
>than Clinton.. People often ask me "but you're in America, what do you care
>about China?" This is true in a sense, but look at the Japanese-Americans
>during WWII.. The truth is: the U.S. must pay respect to your homeland if
>you want to live happily in the U.S.A.

     Really?  I believe Clinton will be more beneficial to the Chinese
people *as a whole*, at least if he pursues a cold war policy with China
like the one which brought the Soviet Union to it's demise.  Bush has
always struck me as too lenient and cozy with the Chinese government from
his days as an ambassador.  I think a cold war policy will bring democacratic
values to China a whole lot faster than Deng's reforms.  I little pain now
will make for a whole lot better future.

							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  georgew@hspice.portal.com or georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: chandra@cannelloni.cis.ohio-state.edu (B Chandrasekaran)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:55:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.014737.2465@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
>  In article <1992Nov11.154205.24942@cis.ohio-state.edu> chandra@cannelloni.ci>s.ohio-state.edu (B Chandrasekaran) writes:

>>The real issue is what to make of such average group behaviors, and
>>how to use the information re. them.  For example, if it is in fact
>>true that incidence of racist anti-black feelings are high among
>>Chinese-Americans, then we can institute consciousness-raising programs.

>     Mr. Chandrasekaran, your oh so academic objection seems to have
>convicted Chinese-Americans in absentia.  I find such behavior irresponsible,
>at best.  Please convince me it's just a poor choice of wording.
>

Mr. Wu, with all due respect, this is nonsense.  I was not agreeing or
disagreeing with Mr. Wei, but I was responding to someone else saying
that one should never talk about group behavior, and I was saying, no,
there are times it is useful, especially if it is empirically backed
up and it can result in guide to action.  I said, "..if it is in fact
true..", not that it is true, and hence instead of being a poor choice
of words, it is a careful choice of words.  I don't know many
Chinese-Americans, and I don't have any idea if they are racist, but
it is possible, and if so, a bit of soul-searching wouldn't hurt them.
In sci, many Indians have critiqued the tendency of Indians to be
racist, and I think thinking about that has been salutary for Indians.






Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Discrimination in Marine Corps Officer Candidate School
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 22:54:27 GMT

>There is an interesting article on page A14 of the New York Times about
>racial discrimination in the Marine Corps OCS.  The issue was raised by a
>Japanese-American who sued the Marines for kicking him out of OCS because
>of "lack of leadership qualities" or something, which prompted the Marines
>to do some statistical studies showing that racial minorities are more
>likely to drop out of OCS than whites, normalized for other factors.  The
>Marines are concerned, but have not decided how to react to these (not so
>surprising) findings.

The story also appeared in the November 20, 1992 edition of the
San Francisco Chronicle.

The victim's name is Bruce Yamashita.  He entered the Marine Corps OCS
in the hope of graduating to become a Marine officer; at the Marine Corps
OCS, he was subjected to unwarranted and crude accusations like "Go
back to your own country".

The Marines did do a statistical study and found (the post above is incorrect
on this matter) that 60% of non-Europeans-ge were flunked out (not dropped out)
annually but that only 20% of Europeans-ge were flunked out.  Further, the
Marine Corps officially apologized to Mr. Yamashita for the racist remarks
and offered to reinstate him in the Marine OCS to allow him to re-take the
course from which he was flunked.

Mr. Yamashita justifiably refused and has sued to become a Marine officer.
He will soon appear before a Marine hearing board in Washington to determine
his status.  (I don't recall the details.)

The Japanese-American Citizens League is supporting Mr. Yamashita in
his efforts to obtain justice.  Mr. Yamashita is a 3rd generation 
Japanese-American; his uncle was a member of the 442nd battalion in WWII.

>The same old stuff (i.e. "go back to your country", perception of lack of
>leadership qualities, old boy networks, etc.)

Mr. Yamashita deserves the officer's uniform.

By the way, if Mr. Yamashita had been a member of the cultural group
of which Henry Lui had been a part, Mr. Yamashita would have the
incredible misfortune of being told (by members of that cultural group)
the very same things (like "You're real country is Ch*n* because you are
a Ch*n*s*-ge") that rednecks like to say.  In other words, there's no way out
unless you abandon that culture and become a Japanese-American,
Korean-American, etc.

Mr. Yamashita should feel fortunate in that respect.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is Asian ?
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:51:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24259
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Nov19.182720.656@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
>     However, as a member of the defacto majority and "controlling power"
>in this country, there are far fewer situations in which a white man would
>be unwelcome compared to a minority.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.  How clever a way to put it.  I submit that what
you say is true, BUT... I speak with great confidence when I say that a
white man is no more welcome to some if not most minorities, and less
welcome than "the right one", than a minority is
welcome in some if not most white families.  (In my case we
had no problems inside the immediate family, but that's
both small in number and of perhaps unusual kind for the great
midwest.)

I submit that the only reason for "far fewer situations" is
that the white man usually finds the "white woman" both because
that's more likely in the probabilistic sense, and because
he will find himself unlikely to develop a relationship with
most "non-white" people, many of whom will shun him for his whiteness.
(Just like many white people shun non-whites.  This works both
ways.  I think there's enough guilt to go around everwhere.)

And, of course, this "far fewer situations" is strictly
on a per-capita basis.  Overall, the numbers HAVE to match,
don't they?  It takes at least two, after all.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: kazi@brahms.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:58:31 GMT

I would request the participants to remove soc.culture.bangladesh from
the header as the current thread has no relevance to scb.

Thanks.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10141 soc.culture.bangladesh:6077 soc.culture.indian:37488 soc.culture.pakistan:16889 alt.discrimination:4660
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:31:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24232
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <yuan1.722089752@husc10> yuan1@husc10.harvard.edu (Nina Yuan) writes:
>Note: There's a fine line between ignoring posts in hopes a poster will go
>away, as jj advocates in another post, and allowing our silence to be 
>construed as a tacit endorsement, as Dwight himself has said.  If you believe
>in the former, feel free to ignore this post.

This is very very true.

If everyone continues to read Dwight's ravings, and doesn't
reply, he still has an audience, and an effect.  If we all
killfile him, he has no audience, and thus no effect.

I'd say that I'm really hoping for much more than his going away,
I'm hoping that we could just shun him out of effective existance,
i.e. convince the world to ignore his posts.  If we do that,
the only people who read his drivel will be people who
already believe it, and I doubt if any of us can reach those
people anyhow.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:41:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Nov18.030305.3564@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
| In article <BxvLMz.EF8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
| 
| >A QUALIFIED Asian is far more likely to be turned down for admission to 
| >a university than a far less qualified black, or even than a somewhat less
| >qualified white.  The same holds for jobs.
| 
|      There are those who would argue this is simply because the black man
| has had far more obstacles to overcome merely to become qualified to apply
| for admission.  That, of course, doesn't justify turning away the Asian,
| merely helping the black man overcome societal/institutionalized obstacles.

Yes, and we define such people, who can determine obsticales
by skin color as racists.  A woman who has spent her first
10 years in a Thai refugee camp had endured more hardship than
a black american will ever know.  That such a woman, scoreing
significantly higher should be displaced by the daughter of
a lawyer and a professional educator because she is black
and the first child is asian is merely one of the travisties
of justice that is affirmitive action.



| Unfortunately, one implies the other.

Indeed it does.  If there can be no 'under-representation' then
there can be no 'over-representation'.  Thus, the most gifted
and successful, often the victims of grave difficulties, are
sacrificed to the black middle class.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: rejecting your heritage
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 21:02:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.144050.10195@nmsu.edu> moon@acca.nmsu.edu (Jonggu Moon)
writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.142641.6066@nmsu.edu> moon@acca.nmsu.edu
>(Jonggu Moon) writes:
>>In a world of plenty where there are enough jobs and houses
>>and SO's to share, people will be glad to help each other.
>>It will be easy to be alone and fend for yourself.
>>But when times get scarce, people will band together.
>>Usually along family, religious and ethnic lines.
>>They will help each other get jobs, shelter, food and dates.

Along ethnic lines?

So, let's see what this means; let's instantiate this proposition
by picking 1 particular group, say Chinese-ge (-ge = one who is ethnically).
So, those last 3 lines will read:

  But when times get scarce, Chinese-ge will band together.
  Usually along family, religious and ethnic lines.
  Chinese-ge will help each other get jobs, shelter, food and dates.

Wow.  That sounds like they are giving priority to those of a given
ethnicity; Korean-Americans in trouble only get the crumbs from the
Chinese-ge table.

> And where will the loner be, when everyone else is desperately
> trying to help themselves ?

A world where people band together like this is not a world of
which I want to be a part.

Fortunately, the world does not yet operate in the way that Mr. Moon
asserts; at least, Japanese-Americans are clearly willing to help those
who are not Japanese-ge.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Sticking Together (was Re: What is Asian ?)
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:19:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov19.171918.16397
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Nov19.095055.1914@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>In aritcle <1992Nov18.203234.6154@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>Hmm, given the percentages of the various racial groups in the US,
>>these statistics suggest that *everyone* is sticking to his/her own
>>group, and that the groups aren't sticking to each other.  (That
>>sounds pretty gross, doesn't it? :-))
>Yes, it does sound kind of gross.  But aside from that, I don't quite agree
>with the statement "*everyone* is sticking to his/her own group."  Yes, it
>is true that each racial group is intermarrying at less than what truly random
>interactions should give you. 

	The thing  is that intermarriage is NOT a "truly random" interaction and
never has been. Aside from the "similarity" arguement, the real overriding
factor is availability--i.e., you're going to marry who's available to you.
That's why whites aren't going to outmarry as much.  However....

 However, if it's true that Asians and Native
>Americans are outmarrying at a 40-70% rate, well, it sounds quite funny to me
>to say that a group of people who are outmarrying at a 70% rate are "sticking
>together." 

	...this >IS< an interesting phenomena....

	[and as far as availability is concerned, my soulmate is probably
a continent and a half away....grumble, grumble.....]

>[This is Big Game week, and the good guys are going to lose yet again.

	No they're not....they didn't LAST year, did they?

-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
From: bs42408@yorick.umd.edu (Bryan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: OFWM / OMWF relationships
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:29:17 GMT


                         SURVEY
Maybe it's just my imagination or maybe it's real but it seems
like there are many more Oriental (meaning East-Asian) Female-
White Male (OFWM) couples than there are Oriental Male-White Female
(OMWF) couples.  Has anyone else noticed this trend?  Anyone have any
idea what might be causing such a disparity?  I myself am
completely supportive of interracial relationships, but it seems
strange that it should be more common one way than the other.
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is Asian ?
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:36:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24233
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Nov18.141820.5536@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  An interesting statistic is that Whites have the LOWEST rate of
>  intermarriage in this country < 1%, whereas Asians and Native Americans
>  have 40% to 70% (yes, it's that high), Black males are around 3%
>  and Black females, 1.2%.  So Whites do stick together and have been
>  since day one.  We're the ones that don't stick together, whatever
>  they want to say about us.

Given the reception I got when I met my asian spouse's parents
for the first time, and the reception I see here occasionally
where it is suggested that "whites seek out asian females
because they think they are submissive", it's perhaps not
so surprising that whites stick together.  Perhaps
it's not even "sticking together", it's simply that
they aren't welcome elsewhere. (That's how it was presented to
me, most clearly and obviously.)

Add that to the fact that there is a preponderance (although less
of one lately) of whites, and one might as well conclude that
whites don't have the opportunity very often, compared
to other ethnic or racial groups, at least in the USA.

What are the statistics for Morocco, does anyone know?

This, of course, in no way suggests that there exist no whites
who are devoutly racist, or that all whites are innocent of
same.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.