Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: WARNING !   FLAMEBAIT with minimal ODC  Read at your own risk!
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:55:02 -0800

In a msg on <Nov 17 21:40>, GLADSTONE of 1:102/851 writes:

 G>         First, let me say I know how it feels to be discriminated
 G> against for not being all of the following; ( you guess which )
 G> White, Anglo Saxon, Protestant, Heterosexual.

If you *haven't* been discriminated against, you haven't been around.  =8-> 


As a White, Long-hair, DeadHead, MetalHead, Surfer, Skateboarder,
Scientologist, Actor, Musician, Computer Nerd, etc, I've been the brunt of
discrimination quite a few times.  Especially having lived in all black or
spanish neighborhoods at one time or another.

I've had the experience of being on a bus and having 5 or so black youths
say, "Let's bleed this whiteboy."  I've been surround by 10 mexican youths
looking for a fight.

 G> Most discrimination is totally without a rational basis. 

Entirely true.  A good 99% of the time, upon actual examination, a persons
discriminations are based on a lack of education, knowledge and
*understanding* of the area being discriminated against.  Most, when forced
to examine their reasonings behind a particular discrimination, fail to come
up with valid arguments _for_ their discrimination.  They usually end up
blathering generalities without being able to present specific sane reasons
why a subject *should* be discriminated against.

 G> There are, however, some emotional, if not totally rational reasons why

 G> gays face discrimination.  

I've never heard a truely rational reason.  In ANY circle I've been in, and
I've walked in many, discrimination in general has been based on emotion and
'Group Agreement'.  I've yet to meet someone that has actually based their
computations on an examination of the facts and particulars and still
discriminated, as we are talking about it here.

"Gay bashers" do not hang out with or particularly *know* about gays. 
"Nigger haters" do not *know* black people.

 G> I live in West Hollywood, a small community 

Man, aren't YOU in the thick of it.  =8->  I lived two blocks from Hollywood
and Vine for fifteen years  (we're talking Southern California here,
folks).

 G> where 35% of the residents admit to being gay.  They have permeated 
 G> every level of city government, as they are politically active and vote
 G> together.  So calling somebody a 'bad name' is a more serious 
 G> crime here than having your car stolen or your home burglerized.  My 
 G> teenage son has been victimized and cannot walk around the corner
without 
 G> either assualting someone or taking a lot of abuse.  The 'main drag' 
 G> through town ( no pun intended ) is a continual circus of hustlers, drag


You must be talking about Santa Monica Blvd.  =8->

 G> queens, and male prostitutes.  ( I think they are male, it's hard to
tell 
 G> sometimes )

<Grin>

 G> This attracts vagrants from all over the USA.  Many gays are 
 G> unstable and emotionally disturbed.  This may be the fault of society
and 
 G> it's intolerance.

In my experience I've met very few unstable and emotionally disturbed gays. 
They've been *different*, of COURSE... they have a different lifestyle, but
the ratio of unstable and emotionally disturbed has been the same that I've
observed in any other 'group'.  

 G> Some are not, and I know several whom I hold in high esteem.
 G> I work in a hospital, and see the tragic results of a 'gay' 
 G> lifestyle.
 G> With what I see, the word gay could not be further from the 
 G> truth.

Yup, you get funneled one part of the crowd.  This is indicative of only a
small portion of the whole.  You would need to get out there and meet the
rest.  Reach out and meet the ones you *don't* get to see.  

Work as a marriage counsellor and see the 'horrors' of marriage.  Specialize
in motorcycle injuries and see how terrible motorcycling is in general.

 G> In the early phase of the aids epidemic, it was estimated that 
 G> the average male homosexual had sex with about 1000 different partners. 


Interesting estimate.  But I would propose that it is highly inaccurate. 
Would like to know where they got their statistics.  Personal experience has
shown gays to not be too much different from yourself or I.

 G> This type of lifestyle provides the perfect breeding grounds for any and

 G> all obscure sexually transmitted diseases.  

Same as promiscuous heterosexuality.

 G> It is a matter of conjecture, but it is doubtful that aids would exist
in 
 G> America if it were not assisted by the rampant promiscuity of gays in
the 
 G> early days.  Hopefully, the rules of the game have been changed through

 G> education and enlightened self interest.
 G> The aids epidemic causes great resentment in heterosexuals.  One 
 G> of the most precious gifts of life is now a cause for caution and fear.

Remember that a lot of the social fear regarding gays and AIDS has been
caused by a lack of education.  The News medias have not presented the known
data about the HIV virus, it's mode of travel and propagation, etc, in the
most responsible way.  I believe that most people have *no* idea what the
HIV virus actually is, other than it's a thing called a 'virus' that does
something bad to your body and eventually kills you.

 G> I cannot go into a bar for a drink in this town without a hassle.
 G> My wife has been harassed and assualted on at least one occasion 
 G> when she went into the corner bar for a drink.  And believe me, we don't

 G> look for trouble.  These are the 'nice' bars with a mostly professional

 G> clientel.
 G> There are other bars where a woman ( a real one ) would NOT be 
 G> allowed in.

<Grin>  You're describing what can happen in *every* damn bar in this huge
city of ours.  My friend (reading over my shoulder) just commented that NO
woman can go to a bar without the possibility of being harassed by another. 
And she may be right.  Just something you have to deal with if you hang
around these environments.

Personally, I've rarely had real problems.  I think part of it might be...
you know how an animal can smell fear?  Well, humans can 'sense' emotions
also.  If you're in an environment that you feel uncomfortable in, or are
hostile to, the others around you will unconciously know it.  And you'll
draw assholes like a magnet.  Works every time.  

 G> Places even I would fear to tread, because there is too much of a 
 G> risk of infected blood flowing.  And I am afraid and unwelcome to go 
 G> into an establishment for female gays, either alone or with a female.

Haven't had the opportunity to hang out in a women's gay bar, but have hung
out in a few men's gay bar.  I have a few heterosexual women friends who go
to gay bars because they don't have to deal with the singles bar/pick-up
scene.  But whether I'm in a gay bar, biker bar, all-black/hispanic/redneck
party, you name it, I can usually *be* there without any problems.  The few
times when it is actually THE WRONG place to be, I pick it up immediately
and just go someplace else.  It's all a matter of attitude and perceptions.

 G> Imagine the embarasement of getting the dodo kicked out of you by 
 G> a woman??

Uhhh, no imagination needed.  =8->  I've met some REALLY TOUGH women in my
time.  <Big Grin>

 G>         Yet, these are the people who scream the loudest and blow
 G> whistles to secure themselves into everyplace they want to go.
 G> If only they were willing to allow the same rights to their non 
 G> gay brothers and sisters.
 G>         It's very easy to live in suburbia and preach peace.  
 G> It's not so easy on the front lines.
 G> REAL understanding and tolerance must flow in both directions.
 G> And gays must try to understand the difficulties that their non 
 G> gay counterparts have in coming to peaceful terms with them.  If not,
 G> Colorado will be the first, not the last.
 G>         When I look in my heart, I don't see hate. We all need to 
 G> live in peace, and that is going to take work and understanding on 
 G> both sides of the sexual fence.

You said it, Brother!

 G>         And please, my fellow Deadheads, don't go off on a holier 
 G> than though flame rampage.  In hundreds of BAY AREA shows, I have
noticed 
 G> that either
 G> 1. Gays don't go to shows ( WRONG )   or
 G> 2. They perceive the Deadhead crowd as being intolerant and 
 G> unaccepting of their orientation.  So they go in stealth mode.

 or 3. They're not there being 'gays'.  They're there being DeadHeads! 

 G>         If you can't be as wierd as you really are at a SHOW, the 
 G> paragon of wierdness and acceptance, then where can you go ?

Why, to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, of course!  I've never had a problem
at a Dead show, but if you need a release, (shameless plug) come see me at
Rocky at The Nuart Theatre in West Hollywood on Santa Monica Blvd.  Every
saturday night at midnight, I play the character Riff-Raff.  Ask around for
Troy.  Would love to hang out with ya'.

 G> Peace ( Someday ? )

Peace NOW!  It starts within, care to join me?  =8->

 G> Gladstone>

-Trog

 * Origin: TAG!  You're It! (1:102/851.4)