HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Organization: Society to Prevent Proton Decay
 	<2tmnnxj.sss@netcom.com>
	<NAKAGAWA.92Sep7094849@minko.hyg.med.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
	<Bu71s3.4E7@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:35:17 GMT

The nutritional deficiencies vegetarians need to watch for are:

B12 - Vegans only. (Vegans eat no animal products.)
zinc - All vegetarians may be somewhat deficient.
copper - Same as above.
iron - Women vegetarians only, as their need for iron is higher.

Note that protein is NOT on the list, any sensible diet contains
enough protein.  A good multivitamin / multimineral tablet should fix
these deficiencies. In most respects a vegetarian diet is healthier
than the average American diet as it contains less fat and more fiber.

--
Bernie Simon				This isn't science,
(bsimon@stsci.edu)			this is sheer madness!

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,sci.skeptic
From: atalanta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michelle Renee Dick)
Subject: Book: Popular Nutritional Practices, by Jack Yetiv
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 01:51:28 GMT

Here's a book for those who enjoy critical analysis of fringe and
pseudo-science.   This one is on the subject of nutrition.

The particulars:

Title: Popular Nutritional Practices: Sense and Nonsense
Author: Jack Z Yetiv, M.D., Ph.D.
Publisher: Dell Publishing  (Gee, I'm surprised Prometheus didn't grab
	this one).
Year: 1986, 1988 (6 years old?  How did I miss it for so long?)
ISBN: 0-440-20046-6

Covers homeopathy, herb treatment, food additives, fad diets,
cholesterol cures, megavitamins, vegetarianism, and much more.
There's a whole chapter on that dynamic duo: Pearson and Shaw, a fun
few pages on (Un)Fit for Life, and a short discussion on the
appropriateness of super-low fat diets ala Pritiken (5-10% fat diets).

I loved the section on Fit for Life.  Lots of hilarious quotes from
Diamond's book and a little info on Mr. Diamond's "doctorate in
nutritional science from the American College of Health Science in
Austin, Texas."  A quote from the book:

"... [T]his institution is not even allowed to grant degrees in Texas
-- the degrees have to come out of Mexico...  Furthermore, Texas has
required this correspondence "school" to remove the word "college"
from its title....  [All] that is necessary to get a 'doctorate in
nutritional science' is the payment of $1250 and the taking of a
series of tests consisting of open-book questions.... [T]he only
people that have flunked this program  'are people that really couldn't
read and write that well'"

What a riot!

--
Michelle Dick
atalanta@stanford.edu

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bch@juliet.caltech.edu (MR. MAPLE)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian diets and cancer [was vegetarianism & nutrition]
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:56:00 GMT

> 
>	I have heard that vitamin B12 is only available from meat and dairy
>products.  Does this imply that the B12 in vitamin pills comes from meat or
>dairy products, or is it manufactured from some low-level organic compounds?


I don't think that it is manufactured from "low-level" organic compounds.  The
first total synthesis was done in the 60's by Eschenmoser and Woodward, it was
quite complex.

Bryan
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,sci.skeptic
From: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher)
Subject: Fluoride:  Threat or Menace?
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an
	      individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily
	      reflect those of the company.
Reply-To: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher)
Organization: SRI International, Computer Science Lab, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:52:09 GMT


I was recently told several interesting things about flouride:

1) Naturally occurring calcium fluoride _may_ be beneficial, but
   sodium fluoride is pure poison (used as rat poison).

2) The source of sodium fluoride is a toxic waste product of refining
   aluminum (tailings?).

3) The aluminum industry was having great difficulties disposing of
   this toxic waste legally.

4) Every study that's shown benefits of fluoride was either
      a) about _calcium_ fluoride, or
      b) bought and paid for by the aluminum industry.

Anyone out there know better?

Peter K. Boucher    (boucher@csl.sri.com)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: helen@spss.com (Helen Smith)
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:22:19 GMT

In article <NAKAGAWA.92Sep7094849@minko.hyg.med.kyoto-u.ac.jp> nakagawa@minko.hyg.med.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Shin-ichi Nakagawa) writes:
>Hi,
>
>  This is my first letter for this group . And my English is not 
>so good . And I am sorry not to use enough good terms . Teach me
>please , > enery one .
>  I am one of a doctor course student of hygiene dept. of Kyoto-u..
>
>In article <2tmnnxj.sss@netcom.com> sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions) writes:
>
> >>Some friends of mine are pure vegetarian, they don't eat meat, don't
> >>eat eggs, nor do they try dairy food. Only vegetables.
>
> >Well, if they eat sea vegetables or nutritional yeasts, they'll get
> >enough B12, etc.  One of the problems is that vegetable sources of
> >iron are generally not well-absorbed, so female vegans are frequently
> >anemic.
> >
>
> I also follow this . In Japan , we are dicussing about anemia in 
>middle aged women , whose intaking pattern is not enough animal foods,
>and we got some findings , as a etiological data , NOT only iron  ,
>but also copper . Copper deficiency is also induce anemia . And seeweeds
>are not so rich of copper . And Zinc deficiency is also induced in 
>vegetarians . In " Biological trace element research ", there is many
>papers for the trace minerals deficiency .
>
>Thank you .
>
> 
>--
>
>       Shin-ichi Nakagawa
>       Department of hygiene Faculty of medicine Kyoto University .
>       E-mail:nakagawa@minko.hyg.med.kyoto-u.ac.jp
>       Tel   : +81 75 753 4456 , fax +81 75 753 4451
>

Shin-ichi, your English is just fine.  One mistake you could easily correct is
to say "there ARE many papers instead of IS many papers. Your English will
improve as you write more and more.  Sometimes I put something on Italian.
culture so I know it takes courage to write in a second language. Good for you.
    Helen
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Dr. Martin Katahn's theory
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:06:30 GMT

In article <JEFF.92Sep2111819@claw.clearpoint.com>, jeff@claw.clearpoint.com 
(Jeffrey J. Griglack) writes:
>On 1 Sep 92 16:12:54 GMT, RVEF80@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Martin Abresch) said:
>
>M> carbohydrates.  It also helps to get a fair amount of AREOBIC
>M> exercise (basically, anything you can do for a long time without
>M> becomming exhausted).
>
>What if you do an excercise that leaves you exhausted at the end?
>Say, for example, a 1/2 hour to 1 hour _hard_ bike.  Is something like
>that doing more harm than good?  

Well, the idea is that you shouldn't exercise with such intensity that you
have to stop after 5 minutes. You want to exercise for at least 20 minutes at
least 3x/week to gain aerobic benefits; your heart rate during this time
should be between 60% - 80% maximum (roughly calculated as (210 - your age)).
A good indicator that you are working too hard is when you can't carry on
a conversation while exercising (ie, you're gasping for breath).

So, if you exercise for 1/2-1 hour, the only problem I see with being
totally exhausted is the increased risk of injury from intense exercise
and the increased risk of soreness the next day preventing you from
maintaining your exercise program!

********************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am/Can CD, CGC, TDI  *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                            *
*                                                      *
* standard disclaimer applies...                       *
********************************************************
From: andreaf@bonnie.Rational.COM (Andrea Frankel)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Is Vitamin C TOXIC ???
Keywords: Is Vitamin C TOXIC ???
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:14:45 GMT

sudesh@utkal.njit.edu (T. J. Sudesh) writes:

>	3) Vitamin C, an anti-Oxidant also has a mild anti-histaminic affect,
>	   which is why patients who take it during a "flu/cold" attack
>	   feel better.Is that right ?

yes, in fact I was able to get off of Seldane, Hismanal, and the like
when my doctor put me on "bowel tolerance levels" of Vitamin C for
CFIDS.  I still have some inhalant allergies, but they're fairly mild,
and for the first time in my life my nose and sinuses stay clear most of
the time.

>	4) what would be the dosage recommended for a normal adult ?

Recommended?  by whom?  for what purpose?  Boy, is *that* ever a leading
question!  ;@)

For those who have a problem with their immune system (CFIDS, allergies,
etc.) as opposed to healthy folks trying to preserve their health, some
doctors will suggest "bowel tolerance levels" of C.  You simply start
with a particular dosage such as 250 mg taken four times a day, and
gradually increase the dosage day by day until you get the runs.  Then
back off to the previous day's level.  That`s your bowel tolerance
level.  I repeat, there's no reason to do this if you are essentially
healthy, only if you are trying to keep your tissues saturated with Vitamin
C.  I strongly suggest getting a "buffered" C capsule if you're going to
try this - I like TwinLabs Allergy-C.  (You even get some calcium into
the bargain from the calcium ascorbate.)  Regular C can give you quite a
case of heartburn in large quantities.

Vitamin C passes out of your body in a few hours, so whatever dosage you
decide to take should be spread out in 3 or 4 doses.  And for those who
are snickering about expensive urine, remember that antibiotics are also
eliminated from the body in a few hours (for most of them); the point is
not how much you flush away, but how much you need to take to keep an
effective amount in your bloodstream.



Andrea Frankel (andreaf@rational.com) -- Rational, Grass Valley Office
"Wake now!  Discover that you are the song that the morning brings..."
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Diet Coke and Weight Loss (was Re: hypoglycemia)
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:38:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep11.003854.21046
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep10.233949.14717@mcnc.org> ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek) writes:
>Diet Coke presumably displaces Coke, which aint got much sugar anymore.
>They use high fructose corn syrup.  How's it's consumption going?

He didn't say sucrose, he said sugar.  High fructose corn syrup
certainly qualifies as sugar by any stretch of the imagination.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky sci.med.nutrition:259 rec.food.veg:8751
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:18:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep11.221816.7735
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep10.204624.21080@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> kettyle@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (john.jr.kettyle) writes:
>Where does the cow get its calcium from?
>If calcium comes from dairy products then where do the dairy products
>get it from. It turns into a paradox if they feed dairy products and meat
>to the cow.

:-)

Cows get their calcium from the grass and hay they eat.  If you had a ruminant
stomach, chewed your cud, and spent all day doing little else but grazing
and emitting methane into the atmosphere, perhaps you too could get all
the calcium you need from grass. :-)

>How about a list of vegitables that are high or even contain adequate amounts
>of calcium in them.

Well, mustard greens, beans, rhubarb(!), all have higher-than-normal
amounts.  Much less than dairy products, however.  Tums antacids.

>How about the same for zinc and chromium? I'll try to
>look this up as I have no references infront of me.

Chromium:  100g (3.5oz) of canned plums: 104mcg
	                      of prunes: 100mcg
                                peanuts: 160mcg
                          peanut butter: 260mcg
1 oz taco flavor Doritos tortilla chips:  47mcg :-)

Recommended maximum daily is around 200mcg.

Zinc: most beans and legumes are good sources of zinc.  Wheat is, too,
but wheat bran and whole wheat contains phytates, which render much of
the zinc unavailable.  Wheat germ is a good source.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: cduchene@alfred.carleton.ca (Cathie Duchene)
Subject: Re: hypoglycemia-- TESTS
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:10:50 GMT

I have had considerable experience with a condition which caused
hypoglycemic-related symptoms. For four years I suffered a barrage of
problems because I had a tumour in my pancreas which went undetected
by the endocrinologist.  Finally after admitting me to the hospital
and drawing blood every hour, the doctor determined I had an
insulinoma. After surgery all was peachy keen again.  Because this is
such a rare condition, this kind of test was not conducted earlier.
I would gladly discuss my problems with any intersted parties because
any attempts to research this topic have been futile.  I would never
want any other human being to endur what I did.  
My e-mail address is:

cduchene@ccs.carleton.ca

Cheers and perseverance to all fellow dieters!
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Info. on coronary heart disease and alcohol....
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:09:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.033156.8735@cc.umontreal.ca> cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
> You see , I cannot drink any red wine as it aggravates my supraventricular
> paroxystic tachycardia, but I do enjoy the occasional glass of beer or white
> wine and I was wondering if I would benefit from the same risk reduction for

I understand that some of the protective effect of alcohol actually comes
from a compound called resveratrol, which is found only in the skins of
grapes, and therefore only in red (not white) wine.

Why would red wine aggravate supraventricular paroxysmal tachycardia?
Not all red wines contain tyramine, the only possible reason why I'd
imagine this might happen.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: stever@cse.ogi.edu (Steve Rehfuss)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Chromium Picolinate vs. Chromium Chloride
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:27:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42538
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

What is the relation, if any, between chromium picolinate and chromium
labeled 'GTF' (standing, I believe, for "Glucose Tolerance Formula")?

-- 
Steve Rehfuss 					    Internet: stever@cse.ogi.edu
Center for Spoken Language Understanding 	    Phone: 503/690-1121/7015
Department of Computer Science and Engineering 	    Fax:   503/690-1334
Oregon Graduate Institute of Science and Technology
19600 von Neumann Drive
Beaverton OR 97006-1999  USA

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Splenda
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:21:15 GMT

Has anyone ever read or heard anything bad about a new artificial sweetener
called "Splenda"?  It's recently become available in Canada, and it's
claim to fame is the taste (pretty close to sugar, not much aftertaste)
and the fact that it won't breakdown with heat associated with baking.
So it's useful for things like low-cal cakes and pies I guess.

It has 2 calories / tsp (5ml), and contains maltodextrine and sucralose.

I've not heard much about this on the net (but I see lots regarding aspartame).
Is this product not available in the U.S.?

Tom
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Keywords: some people need LOTS of food energy
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:49:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Joel Levin posts yet another message in the family of ad hominem
attacks attempting to discredit those with whom he disagrees.
It is both inaccurate in its charges and ignores the substance of
many messages here.

If it makes Levin feel good, I am glad to have contributed to his
therapy.  :-)
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: China Study
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:12:22 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

In article <yxzn=9b.strnlght@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
|> 
|> Paul Fidler misses the point if he thinks to animal comments are
|> in support of basing human diets on animal ones. The point is that
|> given the high surplus of cow's milk available to cows (enough
|> to support an entire dairy industry), if it were a useful food
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	  methinks you put the cart before the cow.  See 1) below.

|> for anyone, Darwin would long ago have had cows drinking it.
|> 
|> In other words, the comments are one of several threads of
|> argument--and that thread is anthropological/biological.
|> 
|> Putting it more directly, if milk is such a good food, how come
|> cows don't drink it?

Several points here:

1) Why did cows evolve to have a "high surplus of cow's milk"?  If you are
having a hard time answering that (well, I did), I think it may be because
they DIDN'T evolve that way, but, rather, they were BRED that way!
(Please, if anyone has reason to believe that cows have been like this
since Day 1 (Mr. Sternlight will correct me on which day cows were
invented), let me know).  Such an excess capacity is udderly useless; in
addition, I always thought that cows experience extreme discomfort if they
are not milked on a regular basis.  I doubt that Darwin designed them that
way.

2) "if milk is such a good food, how come cows don't drink it?" rings of a
wish for a perpetual motion machine.  Cows get energy from eating grass
and/or whatever; they expend some of this energy to create milk; a cow
cannot create more milk "energy" than it take in in grass "energy"; milk
is therefore insufficient to fuel other cows.  Similar argument is used
against eating meat:  too much energy is lost in using grain (etc.) to
keep animals alive in preparation for slaughter.

3)  Cows DO drink milk; at least young ones do.  Milk takes energy to
create, but nature has determined that it is an excellent way to provide
nutrition to young, growing mammals.  You ever see the stats on how
quickly large mammals grow?  They couldn't possibly gather the food
necessary to grow to a survivable size; milk provides the concentrated
nutrition necessary.

Completely different:  what's wrong with skim milk?
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater )
Subject: Should a person on thyroid hormones diet, and if so HOW? (HELP!)
Originator: kjc7435@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:46:21 GMT

Could someone please help?  Earlier this summer I had radioactive iodine
therapy for Graves Disease, and as it pretty much destroyed my thyroid
gland, I'm taking replacement hormones once daily (Synthroid .1 mg).
The PROBLEM is, I'm gaining weight---none of my old clothes fit!!!!

I'm 5'8", medium build, and I'm normally around 125 lbs.  NOW, I'm
140 lbs., and still gaining!!!  I'm worried about going on a diet
because I don't want to upset any aspect of my treatment. Otherwise I'm
quite healthy!!!  I hate having to go from a size 10 to a size 12 in a
matter of two/three months!!!!!  (and worse luck, it's a potbelly, which
unfortunately is a characteristic in my family....I just need to lose
about 10-15 lbs to look svelte again.  I'm a 21 yr. old college student,
so appearance IS this important!!!!).

Thanks for your advice....please send ALL replies via e-mail to:
   "kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".

K. Cater.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rothmund@peanuts.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Baerbel Rothmund)
Subject: Re: hypoglycemia
Organization: "Lehrstuhl fuer Technische Informatik, Uni Tuebingen"
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 07:49:20 GMT

I recently got the following email which I think was supposed to be
posted to the newsgroup. Here it is:

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 16:06:19 -0400
From: amie@hubcap.clemson.edu (Amie Hamilton)
Message-Id: <9209032006.AA23597@hubcap.clemson.edu>
To: rothmund@peanuts.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
Subject: Re: hypoglycemia
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition



I suffer from mild hypoglacemia. I can eat sugar and such without too much
of a problem (altho I do avoid soda and drink coolaid and juices), but if I
don't eat, I get dizzy, weak, and have clamy cold chills. I have not been
able to find any info on this disease besides the textbook definition. Do 
you know where I might find some? My father has this condition and passed it
on to me, but I seem to be the only child that got it. I am concerned for
future kids I may have. Any info would be GREATLY appreciated. 
 
                                          Thanks!
                                           Amie
 
                          amie@clemson.clemson.edu

I hope there is somebody who can help

Baerbel
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: side effects of niacin
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:53:01 GMT

I was told that using Niacin would reduce my cholesterol level.  
Whenever I use it, however, I break out in an incredible rash
and feel flushed.  These sensations only last about an hour. 

My question is this:  will these side-effects diminish with
regular use?  I am using 500 mg tablets and have been told to
use these twice a day.

thanx for any info

rm

 
-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: ah690549@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Annette C. Hollmann)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: 16 Sep 1992 04:01:29 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx

In article <f+znb!=.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>Steve Dyer posts another ignorant, malicious attack on me based on
>his inability to read.
>
>
>In article <1992Sep15.010445.13500@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>In article <55ynyfd.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>>>Annette says that putrefaction comes from bacteria or yeast not normally
>>>present in the stomach unless one is seriously ill.
>>
>>No, she doesn't say that.  Food does not "putrefy" in the stomach or gut.
>>Period.
>
>Sorry, Steve. She does say that. Here's the text:
>
>" The neccessary enzymes for fermentation and putrefaction come
>from bacteria or yeast, and unless you are very ill those critters will
>*not* be present in your stomach."
>
>Once more you have discredited yourself by using words like "moron"
>when it is you who are off-base.
>
>David

Actually - David misunderstood my point because he took that quote out of
context. To simplify my previous argument so that non-microbiologists can
understand it:

Point 1.- There can be no putrefaction occuring in the absence of bacteria.
Point 2.- The stomach of a normal person contains no bacteria
Conclusion: There can be no putrefaction in the stomach of a normal person.

It is *not* correct to conclude that the presence of bacteria in the
stomach (which would usually land you in hospital) leads to putrefaction
because these questions were not addressed by Points 1 and 2:

What percentage of bacteria are putrefying bacteria?
Can putrefying bacteria metabolize in the stomach?

The answer to the second question is no - so even in people who are ill
with some kind of weird gastrointestinal infection do not have
putrefaction taking place in the stomach.

Annette