From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Telling my parents I'm pagan
Organization: Motorola - SPS
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.0
     <85327@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Dec14.223419.26947@newsgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:39:07 GMT

Sorry about my non post.  My newsreader doesn't let me 
retrieve them.

backgound:
>>>My family is in no way religious, but Witchcraft still carries crappy
>>>connotations.  They also live in a very conservative and unenlightened
>...
Me:
>>My experience:  Yea, I've had to deal with this.  I've
>>decided NOT to tell my parents (both sets) because
>>there first reaction would be strongly against it and
>>I would rather not have all that negativity directed at
>>me.  The bad part is that I feel much more distant from
>>them, since I cannot share a significant aspect of my life.
>>Also it is annoying to have to deal with my moms "guilt 
>>trips" and value judgments which conflict with my own.
>>However, they're still great people and I love them a lot,
>>perhaps one day I'll tell them, but not now.

>Do you really have to pretend to share her value set?  I've always
>been very ambivalent about hypocrisy. Basically I accept if people

I would say that you are rather opinionated about hypocrisy...

>tell me white lies some times, but I have severe difficulties doing it
>myself, at least about opinions. I just can't make myself nod
>agreeingly at something I don't agree with. Opinions are serious to
>me. They may change over time, though, I just can't lie about them.

No I don't have to pretend.  I can do what ever I want and I am
responsible
for anything I do.  I guess I left off some info on how I choose 
to interact with people.  Opinions are very serious to me also, and I
value my beliefs and personal independence beyond words.  Yes, I can 
lie about my opinions (or at least not tell people how I actually feel),
 and I'll tell you why. 

First, most of the beliefs I now  oppose, I held only a year and a half
ago
 with rather strong conviction.  Therefore, I realize that those who hold 
opposing views may do so with good intent and believe that they are best 
for themselves and society.  When I state in my sig. file that I am my
opinions,
I mean it, because as my beliefs have changed, so have I.  I believe
strongly
that we create our personal reality and our shared reality though our
beliefs.

Second,  because I place such high value on beliefs,  I don't feel like 
wantonly hitting people up side the head and making them deal with
my belief system:
>...... and really you shouldn't have to spend this much effort on
>introducing your values to your parents,

>They aren't religious, but they would be worried about your ticket to
>heaven? Really, George! Maybe you should tell them that Pagans don't
>go to heaven, but get born again, or maybe your flavour of Pagan does
>go to heaven? ;)

No, maybe I shouldn't tell them, thats my point (and no I do not 
believe in heaven or hell)!  They are not that "religious" but they
do have a belief system that I chose not to threaten at this time.

I realize that my beliefs and vocalization of them
have a profound effect on those who love me.  For example, if my 87
year old "pious" grandmother found out that I was a witch, it would
be absolutely devastating to her, to the point that I would worry about
her physical, emotional, and mental state.  Therefore, I choose to
conform to her "beliefs" about me, when I'm around her, because I love
her and care about her well being, more than my ego wants to say
"This is who I am and what I believe and if you don't like it, too bad."
If she opens up to me about her personal beliefs, I would probably
open up to her about mine, but that is her choice.

Third, about  hypocrisy.  It is all well and good to say, "these our my
beliefs and I'm going to do as much as I can to live my external life
according to them regardless of what people think".  But in an absolute
sense, how effective are you really going to be? Its a little 
like trying to only buy "eco-friendly products".  Its great and
worthwhile, 
but when you have one siberian industrial plant putting out as much
sulfur dioxide as all of Canada (according to a recent TV show here), you
realize that, in an absolute sense, there are more "root" problems
that can be addressed.  I prefer to direct my energy towards affecting 
society (global) as a whole as opposed to trying to maintain a false sense
of non-hypocratical behaviour.  Not that I don't try to live according to
my beliefs, but I realize that it has limited effectiveness in the big
picture. 
 
And this brings me to the big picture.  As I see it I have about three
choices.
1)  I can go off and join a commune and live in full accordance with my
beliefs, maybe. 
2)  I can quit my job, and spend my full time affecting issues
that concern me (maybe once I get my inheritance, but not likely before
then
unless I want to sell my house and everything I own and be homeless [and
yes 
I do realize that the fact I may receive an inheritence could affect my
interaction
with my real father, but if I was not, I don't think I would interact
differently
with him than I do now]). or 
3) I can continue to work as an engineer in an industry which is one of
the worst polluters, compete in a patriarchial heirarchy for advancement, 
act in "mercurial" fashion to people depending on my relationship with
them
and their openness to me, whenever possible try to affect the world around
me in a positive fashion, and try to the best of my ability to understand
and learn from each situation I find myself in.  I choose #3 because to me
it's the least "escapist" and forces me to deal with things outside of my
personal control.  Perhaps at some point I will choose #2, I'm probably 
getting closer to it all the time.

>introducing your values to your parents, but then again if you and I
>aren't perfect, why should our parents be so?

Now I certainly don't want to imply that I've got everything figured out
in my life, and that I always interact with people based on concious 
choice in accordance with my highest good.  But on some level at least, 
I'm aware of whats going on and the meaning of the situations I find
myself in.

I do require a high degree of honesty and similar values for close
relationships that I choose.  

>My greatest trouble with my mother (my father is long dead), is that
>she thinks I should lie about my opinions, just to make other people
>believe that I am "normal". Well, as normal as a 26 year old with a
>younger man and no children and being an artist and having half a
>university degree in CS and plays roleplaying games can get. 
 
No one is normal.  I have a degree in physics from Berkeley, am
27 and single and believe in magick. 

>At least I know that I won't deny my opinions, neither
>do I deny other people their right to have an opinion of their own. I
>hope.
 No you don't.  And I respect and appreciate your response.



George Paap

I am my opinions.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)