HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bc338569@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Brian J. Catlin)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Inexpensive greenhouse
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:42:40 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University - Electrical Engineering

In article <luden.67.721576919@lehigh.edu> luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) writes:
>I am interested in building a small greenhouse out of pvc pipe and plastic.
>I would appreciate any ideas, experiences, pros and cons, etc. 

My parents run 10 large commercial greenhouses.  We usually use a fairly 
thick plastic over metal pipes.

After about three years, the plastic usually starts yellowing and has to be 
replaced.  We usually try to replace the plastic on each greenhouse every 
two years, though.

Also, if insulation is a concern, you may try placing two layers of plastic 
on it and fasten them together all around.  Then place a small blower (we 
use shaded-pole blowers) at one end to blow air inbetween the two layers.  
Don't forget to cut a small hole at the other side to let the air out!
(We've burned out several blower motors from forgetting this).

The blower also helps prevent wind from tearing the plastic off if you live 
in a windy area.  We have had three greenhouses get blown away when the 
blowers accidentaly got unplugged.

If you want a really fancy covering, and you have some money to burn, look 
at using a product called Dynaglass.  It is a fairly thick hard-plastic 
covering that is guaranteed to remain something like 96% clear over 20 years.
We placed this on the ends of all our greenhouses and it really is nice!

Well, good luck with your greenhouse!
B. J. Catlin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----  Brian J. Catlin                    * Colorado State University  -----
-----  bc338569@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu * 202 Allison                -----
-----  (303) 495-2762                     * Fort Collins, CO  80521    -----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Possible return of gray wolf to Yellowstone National Park, U.S.A.
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:39:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvra.25260039
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA


> Actually, there are no reported cases of wolves killing people in the 
> United States.

This is just plain wrong.  There are *many* reported cases of wolves
killing people in the US.  There are none that are accepted as
"substantiable."   Of course the "substantiable" filter may be set as
tight as you like to support whatever point you wish to make.  This is
especially significant since the people deciding substantiability are
in many cases making that decision *decades* after the report--remember
that wolves ceased being a common sight in this country a long time
ago.  (I have seen a report by a trained wildlife biologist being the
measure of substantiability.)

My favorite factoid is that there have been no "unprovoked" bear
attacks in the US.  Of course, merely camping somewhere in bear
territory constitutes "provocation."

To the poster who mentioned "living by their rules."  If we "lived by
their rules" we'd kill the bears any time there was a confrontation.
That's what they do if they can.

---

Ben
Newsgroups: misc.rural,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive greenhouse
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:29:33 GMT

In article <luden.67.721576919@lehigh.edu> luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) writes:
>I am interested in building a small greenhouse out of pvc pipe and plastic.  
>I would appreciate any ideas, experiences, pros and cons, etc. 
>
>Dean Nelson den0@lehigh.edu

See the latest issue of "Country Journal" magazine for an article by Eliot
Coleman on greenhouses and cold frames for winter food production that
are cheap and easy to build.

london@sunsite.unc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: rerickso@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ronald D. Erickson)
Subject: Re: Agriculture software.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:32:49 GMT


Have you checked with Iowa State University?  You might check
the 800 operator and see if they have an 800 number.  I am 
fairly certain they might have software you would be
interested in.  You might ask the universities in your state
about it too.

Sincerely,

Ron



From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:54:55 GMT
Subject: 12-hour fire
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: lambs
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:47:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvra.25260040
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA


> I have just put two sheep in the freezer and wish to do
> something constructive with the hides.  I am currently 
> salting the hides to dry out all the oils.  Once I am done
> with that can I wash these hides to clean them up before
> I send them to be tanned?  If so, what is the best way?

I did some research on this last year.  To answer your question, ask
the people who will process the hide what is the best way to prepard a
hide for their process.  Also, salting does not change the oil content
of the hide--it simply keeps the hide from rotting between the time it
is removed from the animal and processed.  Usually the first thing that
will have to be done to a salted hide is that it must be soaked to
remove all of the salt.

In general sheep hides (or fleeces) are not considered to make good
leather.  They can be processed by a number of standard processes.  You
can even do it yourself if you want to bother (the Alum method looked
best of the processes I saw).  Remember that processing hides to
preserve the hair is very different that processing hides just for the
leather (some processes desolve out the hair first thing).

---

Ben
Xref: sparky misc.rural:2507 rec.gardens:7928
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Vegetable Seeds (New England)
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:29:31 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Nov11.123635.6903@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) writes:
> I've lost the name and address of a seed company in Maine that sold
> tasty vegetable varieties which were particularly suited for planting
> in the Northeast.  I'd appreciate if anyone who has this name and
> address (or phone number) could email it to me.  Thanks.

Johnny's Select Seeds, perhaps?  Pinetree Garden Seeds?  Addresses in the FAQ.
Another possibility that isn't in the seed catalog FAQ (if I remember
correctly) is:  Vesey's Seeds for Short Seasons
                PO Box 9000
                Charlottetown
                Prince Edward Island
                Canada C0A 1P0
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Wood
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:06:25 GMT

watpod78@alfred.carleton.ca (Phil Culhane) writes:

>There are things you can do with wood and an axe that no amount of
>stairclimbers and psychotherapy sessions can equal.

Ain't THAT the truth!

A year ago, I got a great deal on 4 cords of wood for my wood-burning
stove.  4 cords of mostly hardwood (about 85%) for $150.00.  The
catch was I had to split it.  The pieces were already cut to the right
length for putting in the woodstove, but I had to do ALL the splitting.

It took me two weeks of splitting every night after work and on
weekends.  Well actually, 2.5 weeks if you consider the 1.5 days in
between splitting days 1 and 2.  You see, even though I'm a novice
bodybuilder and all-around athlete AND I consider myself to be in
great physical condition, I found out after splitting days 1 and 2
that I had muscles I never DREAMED of before and these babies were
just a-killin' me!  Still, looking at all the racks I made with those
4 cords sitting on them was VERY satisfying and burning it was even
better.

Now the hard part . . . even though I said I'd never do that again, I
have a similar type deal on 5 cords of wood this year.  Gee, is there
enough Ben-Gay in stock?  Buy stock now!!

allen
Newsgroups: misc.rural,sci.bio,soc.culture.usa,talk.environment
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Telecommuters, Remote Workers
From: 9138827a@levels.unisa.edu.au
Date: 29 Oct 92 14:02:10 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia

This item has been cross-posted to misc.jobs.contract and misc.jobs.misc

I am undertaking postgraduate study at the School of Library and
Information Management, University of South Australia, Adelaide, on
the particular information needs of telecommuters - those who perform
job-related work at a site away from an organisation and communicate
electronically rather than commuting physically.
 
I would be very interested in, and would greatly appreciate a response
from those who are telecommuters, to the following questions. If you
are not a telecommuter but know of others who are it would be
appreciated if you could pass this on to them:
 
 
Q1      Does the organisation to which you telecommute provide any
        library and information services which are accessible to you
        online? (eg catalogs, reference assistance, databases, literature
        searches, document delivery services, organisation information
        such as daily bulletins and administrative gazettes.)
 
        If yes:
 
        (a) What services are provided?
        (b) How useful are these services to you?
 
Q2      (a)     What is the nature of the organisation to which you
                telecommute?
 
        (b)     If you sometimes commute physically to your organisation,
                how frequently do you do this?
 
Q3      What are the particular information needs that you have as a
        telecommuter?
 
Q4      What basic information services do you consider should be
        provided by an organisation for its telecommuters? (see Q5 for
        additional and desirable services)
 
Q5      What additional information services would you perceive as being
        highly desirable for an organisation to provide for its
        telecommuters?
 
Q6      Are there any further comments you wish to make regarding the
        information needs of telecommuters?
 
Q7      Would you like a summary of the results of this survey E-mailed
        to you?
 
Respondents can be assured that individuals and organisations will not
be identified in any report or summary of this survey.
 
Please E-mail your response to my Internet address:
 
9138827a@ntx.city.unisa.edu.au
 
Thank you for your cooperation
 
Bronwen Strong

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: don@muff.webo.dg.com (Don Perkins)
Subject: Re: lambs
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 22:51:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: don@muff.webo.dg.com
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Followup-To: misc.rural

In article <1992Nov05.145425.23829@rchland.ibm.com>, james@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (James White) writes:
|> A question about sheep (and I am sorry if I offend
|> the vegetarian people).  
|> 
|> I have just put two sheep in the freezer and wish to do
|> something constructive with the hides.  I am currently 
|> salting the hides to dry out all the oils.  Once I am done

The reason you salt the hides is to remove MOISTURE!
You want to remove all the moisture from the hides as fast as
possible to prevent bacteria from turning your potential
shearling jacket or fuzzy slippers into a rotting stinking mess...

|> with that can I wash these hides to clean them up before
                   ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^
No, once your hides are nice and dry keep them that way until 
you start the tanning process.

|> I send them to be tanned?  If so, what is the best way?
|> 
|> Thanks.
|> -- 
|> 
|> James White 

--
Don P.
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Cheap Land
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:57:40 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 



Just to let you land hunters out there know.....  There were several farms
in the Southern Ohio area for well under $1000 an acre, one large farm for
$400 an acre.

Sue
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: Getting rural (looking for a good place)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:17:55 GMT

In article <mZb6qAVKBh107h@coldbox.cojones.com>, system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) writes:
>
>I'm looking for a place with trees, hills and wooded countryside. I'm
>not too particular about geography: I could relocate (eventually) to just
>about anywhere. I'd be staying in Alaska at least long enough to pay off
>the land- possibly longer. I wouldn't want to be very close to any cities
>and I wouldn't mind being hours away from the nearest one.

I suggest you consider eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina, eastern
Kentucky, and western Virginia.  There's lot's of nice, pretty land in this
area that ought to suit your needs.  You might want to pick up a copy of the
"Placed Rated Almanac", too.  Don't pay any attention to the overall
ranking--look instead at the rankings on subtopics important to you.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Reply-To: eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 16:06:58 GMT

Andrew Cohill suggests:
> Or get up at night
>to tend it.  This is made much easier if you have small children to wake
>you every two or three hours 8^).....

A beer or two before bed will get you up in time to tend the fire, 
works for me :-/

Carl
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: Access from home
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:23:29 GMT

In article <09EY02ub28Qc01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, lmn00@cd.amdahl.com (Linda Newell) writes:
>I am about to go on maternity leave and wonder if anyone
>out there can tell me how to get net access from home.

I haven't seen any other replies, so, even though I'm not a fount of knowledge
on this topic, I'll give it a shot.

The easiest thing would be to dial in to the systems where you work.  If
that's not an option, look for a local public access site, i.e., a local
system with net connections that sells accounts to the public.  There is a
list of these published in a newsgroup whose name I can't remember.  If you
need me to dig it up for you, I will.

For a standard terminal interface, your Mac/PC w/2400 baud modem will do fine.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: watpod78@alfred.carleton.ca (Phil Culhane)
Subject: Wood
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:35:46 GMT

My God, all this chatter about wood-chopping has me just a-hankerin to
get back to the "mansion" and lay into a cord or two (alongside the
requisite chopping music!).

Sometimes it strikes me as lunatic that we can wax romantic about
savaging a chunk of wood with a piece of metal attached to another
chunk of wood.

Then again, I always love to hear about the "good old days", when my
grandfather (who must have been quite a man in his youth) would get in
15 full cords and turn it into pieces by hand in a couple days.

There are things you can do with wood and an axe that no amount of
stairclimbers and psychotherapy sessions can equal.

Phil
From: waltervj@coos.dartmouth.edu (Walter V. Jeffries)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:10:03 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

RE:"Contrary to an assertion by another poster, pine does not cause a creosote
problem in my chimney....This summer, a professional
chimney cleaner only got 1 gallon of creosote out of a 30' chimney."

*grin*  Obviously our definitions differ a little.  I would say you got quite 
a bit of creosote there.  We get about 1 to 1.5 gallons a year burning for
9 to 10 months a year (this year we had fires going in the summer due the
strange weather...).  I consider that a lot of creosote.  You are right
that not having the bark, and more importantly, having a catalytic converter,
cuts down on the creosote problem a lot.  But, if someone didn't have a 
catalytic converter and burned the bark and the wood wasn't fully dried
and they burned long low smoldering fires then they could have a problem.
Something to be aware of...
From: hypes@boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: sheep dogs
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:13:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

russell such (russell@ldgo.columbia.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	So how much time does it take to work your dog?
: About the same amount of time it takes to grain the sheep, or
: move them out to pasture(or even another side of the same
: pasture), or clear the sheep out of the barn, or move them into
: the barn, or walk your fence, or shear the sheep, or foot bathe the
: critters.  You see, a dog doesn't have to work all day, but if he
: gets a little every day he'll be more than happy. 
: 
: 	Of course, really wanting to have a dog around is the
: most important part of the whole deal. 
: 	Oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you that you
: can't keep a working dog in the house, or that when a working
: dog isn't working it has to be locked in it's kennel. 
: 
: I guess that'll do for now. 
: 
: 
:

Very true on the last point.  We breed and raise Australian Shepherds,
and I would recommend them to anyone as an ideal indoor/outdoor dog.
Mind you, you want to keep them out in the fall and early winter as much
as possible so they'll develop a good winter coat...

- Gary Hypes -
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:11:48 GMT
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

The *primary* problem the original poster has is that the fire box is
tiny.  12" x 12" x 16" is not large enough to hold an 8-10 hour fire,
period.  All that insert is good for is a little fire in the evening.

As for tending it, the trick is to have very good, dry kindling in
various sizes so that you can build up enough coals in twenty or thirty
minutes to throw on a couple of good-sized logs that will last until bed
time.  

But fires take time, there is no doubt about it.  But well worth it, in
my opinion.  But the firebox is too small, and the only solution is to
get a bigger insert, or just have an evening fire.  Or get up at night
to tend it.  This is made much easier if you have small children to wake
you every two or three hours 8^).....

Andrew

-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU                                                  
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: neilson@osf.org (Peter Neilson)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:57:49 GMT

In article <9211080128.AA0045i@bpc.UUCP> bernie%bpc.uucp@bbn.com 
(who has more rural ambition than I ever will) writes:
>
>2) How do you split logs?  I wandered over to the local hardware store and
>picked up a maul [6#] and some sort of wedge, ...

I could write a whole lot about heating with wood, but I'm just going
to stick with the splitting, because others will fill in the other
aspects, like getting your fire going.  I spent half of yesterday
splitting.

First, you should have at least -two- wedges, and you should have an
eight-pound hammer.  You might want to get one with a fibreglass
handle, or get one of those gizmos that absorb the blow when you hit
the wedge with the hammer handle instead of the with face of the hammer.

Second, you will wear safety goggles when splitting wood.  You
probably already do, so I'll shut up about it.

The wood stands up straight on the end of a section of log you have
sawn as a chopping block.  It should be a two-foot log, about 18
inches high, flat on top, and maybe designed to be level even though
you are working on a hill.  (That's mine.)  Some lucky folks use a
tree stump.  The wood stands straight on it because you have cut it
square on at least one end.  (What?  You didn't cut your wood square?
Oh, somebody else cut it?  Whatever.)  You can make crooked wood stand
straight by putting little chips of wood under it.  After you've done
enough splitting, there will be a lot of them.

Try splitting with the maul first, but you won't necessarily have any
luck on logs bigger than maybe a foot across.  Sometimes you can
hammer the maul in, if it didn't work in one swell foop, but for
ghods' sake be careful.  When the maul doesn't work, use the wedges.
Use the second wedge when the first one gets stuck.  You might want a
third.  When all your wedges get stuck, shake them out by picking the
log up and throwing it at your chopping block or at other logs.  Add
strong language if the first few tries are unsuccessful.

I find it helpful to have a small (four-pound) hammer with a short
handle for starting wedges in recalcitrant logs, especially ones that
won't stand up straight.  The last resort for those logs is to get the
wedge started and then lay the log on the ground, butted against the
chopping block.  Stand astride it, and hammer front-to-back, or stand
to the side and do it like golf.

Use only split logs to get your fire going.  Save the unsplit ones for
keeping a running fire going longer.  Split a few logs into slivers if
you don't have enough kindling.  We always have too much.  I'd ship
you some, but your net address doesn't seem to have a firewood-
transfer server running.
-- 
        Never have so many, voting for so many, voted for so little.
                >>>  Peter Neilson  --- neilson@osf.org  <<<
(Quote changed daily.  If you've seen this one before, you voted twice.)
From: rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:44:33 GMT

cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) writes:

>The *primary* problem the original poster has is that the fire box is
>tiny.  12" x 12" x 16" is not large enough to hold an 8-10 hour fire,
>period.  All that insert is good for is a little fire in the evening.

Depends to a considerable extent on the wood - the firebox on our stove 
would be about that size, and if we load it carefully with the right proportions
of yellow box (to get it nice and hot) and apple box (very slow burning) it's
toasty hot in the morning (apple box is so slow burning, I've actually been
in a position to restart a fire 36 hours after I last loaded it, but that was
an accident - I'd overloaded with apple, then the weather next morning was 
warm enough that we didn't need to stoke up the fire - and guaranteed to fail 
if you actually tried to do it).
-- 
Bob McKay		   	Phone:	+61 6 268 8169	    fax: +61 6 268 8581
Dept. Computer Science		Internet:	rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au
ADFA, Northcott Dve 		UUCP:...!uunet!munnari!csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au!rim
Campbell ACT 2600 AUSTRALIA	ARPA:	rim%csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: james@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (James White)
Subject: Re: lambs
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 14:54:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: JamesWhite@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

A question about sheep (and I am sorry if I offend
the vegetarian people).  

I have just put two sheep in the freezer and wish to do
something constructive with the hides.  I am currently 
salting the hides to dry out all the oils.  Once I am done
with that can I wash these hides to clean them up before
I send them to be tanned?  If so, what is the best way?

Thanks.
-- 

James White 
Newsgroups: misc.rural