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Info-Hams Digest            Fri, 11 Dec 92       Volume 92 : Issue 1302

Today's Topics:
                           2C43 tube wanted
                           2m rig in Europe
                              2mtr range
              Arkansas Inauguration Special Event Statio
                    Clever Phonetics Needed--WK3C
                            CRYSTAL RADIO
                            Crystal Radios
                         frequency inversion?
         Hail the TS820! (was: Re: Yaesu/Kenwood/Ten Tec/MFJ)
             Hams are cheapskates (was: Overpriced TNC's)
                        highest frequency QSO
                           KH0AM QSL Route
                              Literature
                PL... ham vs. commercial rigs (2 msgs)
                                TS-820
                            Yaesu FR-890AT

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.

Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available 
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 92 15:18:36 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: 2C43 tube wanted
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Need help finding a source for a 2C43 tube.

tnx es 73 de Jack, K9CUN

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 92 20:03:36 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: 2m rig in Europe
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

I'd like to see what replies you get. Regarding frequencies its no 
problem and if your gogvernment requires in band transmit only (144-146 
in Region 1) then this can offten be taken care of by adding or 
removing a couple of diodes. More of a problem is getting 1750Hz 
toneburst for European repeaters (nobody uses CTSCS over there). On 
some models with optional CTSCS then its either or with a european 
toneburst, but most modering rings have sub-audible tones built in. I 
suspect that they have 1750Hz toneburst in there too. The front panel 
is often slightly different between A and E modles to account for these 
differences.

Anybody got a 1750 toneburst out of a US model 2m handheld. How did you do it?

73 de Kevin Purcell N7WIM/G8UDP (Seattle, WA)          a-kevinp@microsoft.com
Do your interests match mine? If so call me. I'd like to hear from you.
QRP, Packet, TCP/IP, Digital voice, Macintosh, Spread Spectrum, Homebrew,
Satellites, Antenna design, Propagation, VHF/UHF weak signal, Microwave, QEX

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 92 17:27:40 EST
From: titan.ksc.nasa.gov!k4dii.ksc.nasa.gov!user@ames.arpa
Subject: 2mtr range
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec9.153921.2674@dxcern.cern.ch>, dhina@dxcern.cern.ch
(Mourad Dhina) wrote:
> hello,
> i am novice in the field and would like to know what the
> achieved range (distance) with a 2mtr radio of say 40 watts
> output. both under severe and "ideal" situations.. assume
> the radio is a mobile one mounted in a car with an external
> 2mtr magnet-base mounted antenna.

Mourad-

Two meter radio signals sometimes travel using a relatively rare
phenomenom, where signals follow a duct formed by atmospheric layers
created by a temperature inversion.  It is sort of a "wave guide in the
sky"!  When you see unusually strong ghosts on the lower TV channels, there
is a good chance that two meters is also open along the same ducts.  Ranges
of several hundred miles have been observed.

There are also tiny amounts of radio energy that are scattered by the
atmosphere, so they can travel far beyond the horizon.  To use scattering,
you have to have tremendous amounts of power to overcome the losses.  It is
used by the military.  It would be difficult for a Ham to attain the power
levels needed.

Most of the time, two meter signals travel by "radio line-of-sight", which
is slightly greater than optical line-of-sight.  In most cases, range is
limited by this distance, rather than by the power used.  To predict the
range of a VHF or UHF transmitter, you can take the antenna height in feet,
multiply by two and take the square root.  The result is the distance in
miles, to the radio horizon.  Do the same for the receiver at the other
end, and add the two distances together for total line-of-sight range. 
This is only an estimate, but it is reasonably accurate up to several
thousand feet of antenna height.

If one of the stations is in an aircraft (or Spacecraft!), then power might
be the limiting factor.  The MIR Space Station is currently orbiting at
about 395 kilometers.  I think they operate two meters at about 25 watts,
but I'm not sure.  They have a very strong signal when their antenna is
oriented in a favorable direction.  Listen for them on 145.550 MHz.  They
have a packet TNC with a "Personal Message System" going most of the time,
but I have heard them several times on voice in the morning hours here,
around 12:00 UTC.  I've made brief contacts with them on both Packet and
voice, using 25 watts to an outdoor vertical antenna.  I don't think that
much power would be required, but the Space Station may be hearing hundreds
of earth stations calling at once!

73, Fred, K4DII

fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:53:48 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newshost.LaTech.edu!quasar!jeffm@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Arkansas Inauguration Special Event Statio
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:58:45 GMT
From: beta.lanl.gov!tjf@lanl.gov
Subject: Clever Phonetics Needed--WK3C
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Hi..Novemember Tanbo One Gulf....I've heard him on the air!

Just goes to show....never try to work CW while eating taffy!

;^) ;^)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:21:44 GMT
From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!stortek!v027197@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: CRYSTAL RADIO
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <iTNHVB1w164w@warell.lonestar.org> root@warell.lonestar.org (q) writes:
>Is Philmore no longer in business? There is no greater joy'
>than to move the catwisker around trying to get the best 
>reception. Oh yes, the good ol days. If you passed the catwisker,
>you went on to the one-tube receiver--where's the No. 30 tube.
                                                     ^^^^^^^

Gee, that's pretty modern, you must mean the predecessor:  01A tube
:-) de George Noyes, W1XE

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 92 15:31:14 GMT
From: olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!kksys.com!tdkt!FredGate@ames.arpa
Subject: Crystal Radios
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

My first "Crystal Radio" used a very tarnished penny and a bent safety
pin for the crystal, one coil wound on a piece of wood and 2k
headphones.  The radiator was ground and my bed frame was the antenna.

And it worked too!

Claton Cadmus,  KA0GKC

Packet:         KA0GKC @ WB0GDB.MN.USA.NA
Fido Netmail:   Claton Cadmus  1:282./100
Internet Email: Claton.Cadmus@f100.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com

 * SLMR 2.1a * Rule #1 of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts

 * Origin: HAM>link< RBBS 612/HAM-0000 Saint Paul, MN (K0TG) (1:282/100)

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 92 14:14:00 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: frequency inversion?
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Folks:

Anyone know how "frequency inversion" encryption works?  i.e.

- How do you encode the source?
- How do you decode the result?
- Can this be done in a relatively small space ( 1 or 2 in^2 pcb )
  or is there more to the hardware/glue logic?
- Is this a trivial encryption scheme, or are there differing "keys"
  to encode/decode with?

And finally, can these functions be performed post-mic but pre-xmtr, 
and subsequently post-recvr but pre-speaker?  That is, is the encryption
done on the audio frequencies at both ends?

Inquiring mechanical engineers who play with RF want to know.

#include<rec.radio.policy.barrier>
/* Of course, somewhere in Part 97+E6 of FCC CFR says "Amateur
 * communications may not be encrypted," but that's not the purpose,
 * so lets not divert from a technical subject *gasp* to policy (again) */

tnx Jim Sandoz n2mpt

-----------------------------------------
Jim Sandoz N2MPT    at&t-net 908.834.1832
mail att!emclab!jds or jds@emclab.att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories Holmdel New Jersey 
- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:18:28 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!fcr@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Hail the TS820! (was: Re: Yaesu/Kenwood/Ten Tec/MFJ)
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec7.230614.19375@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> little@nuts2u.enet.dec.com (nuts2u::little) writes:
I too purchased a used TS820, and am pleased with it for the most part.
>
>Oh yeah, one other thing although not really a complaint, just a note to
>other 820S owners.  When mine arrived, the digital display was acting very
>weird.  Wrong frequency displayed, missing parts of digits, one digit
>completely missing, etc.  This apparently is pretty common with this rig. 
>Fortunately the fix is trivial.  Simply open up the radio and clean and/or
>re-seat the connectors going to the board that controls the digital display
>unit.  The display works perfectly now. :-)
>

I had this same problem, but it was not so simple to fix.  Reseating the 
connectors did not do it.  The digital display boards and all of the other
boards that are in the rig were not properly cleaned when the rig was first
built.  There was solder flux left on the boards that had turned gummy
in some spots, and chalky in others.  I ended up cleaning the display boards
to get rid of the flux and then they worked with the exception of one
digit where the problem was traced to a bad driver transistor.  Replaced
that, and the display was back.  

The flux really messed up the noise figure of the receiver though.  I have
got the lower frequency bands working fairly well, but still have not
got to 10-20 meters.  The audio on these bands is just below the noise
level, so I get a headache trying to listen.  This was a radio that was
sold to me in "perfect" condition.  I only paid $400 for the TS-820S and
the VFO-820 though, so I am not complaining too much.

Frank Robey
fcr@ll.mit.edu
KA1YLB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:10:13 GMT
From: yuma!gw214790@purdue.edu
Subject: Hams are cheapskates (was: Overpriced TNC's)
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <randall.724042857@seashore> randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:
>n2gj@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Gerry Jurrens) writes:
>>Admit it:  hams are, for the most part, cheap, parsimonious, penny-
>>pinching, tight-fisted, deep-pocket SOBs!  
>>Say, does anyone have a DSP TNC they can sell me for fifty bucks?  ;-)
>I have a theory on this.  Ham radio operators are predominantly 
>senior citizens, especially on HF.  There are more over-65ers than
>any other age group.  They tend to have a lower income, and they
>remember when prices were much lower than they are today.  The
>"cheap" mentality spreads to the rest of the hobby.  I am not criticizing
>older people, I am just saying that they tend to be less inclined
>to spend a lot of money.
>Of course, some of us are young and cheap  |-).

Yeah, like me.  I had to save up AND sell some other electronic gear to buy
my USED TS-820S.  It was claimed to have a CW filter, but didn't when it 
arrived.  I borrow a 2m HT, and I have built ALL (both) of my antennas.
I really enjoy it when I get a UR or a JA station to come back, and I'm
scrounging parts to convert my 29.5-30 MHz band to a WARC band.

I'm not cheap.  I'm poor.  Just because I don't have a cushy job somewhere and
have to WORK for a living doesn't make me cheap or second class, and I resent
people who think we all have big savings accounts and should have all the bells
and whistles they can afford.

I'm sick of all these hams who say "just get yourself a ....".  I would if
I could, but I can't.

I EARN it.
Galen Watts, KF0YJ

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 1992 17:43:48 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!phys.ksu.edu!tipping@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: highest frequency QSO
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In a previous post, I said:
>
>In article <1992Dec9.163248.23784@pacifier.rain.com>
>mikef@pacifier.rain.com (Mike Freeman) writes: >In article <8752@orbit.cts.com> rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer) writes:
>>>
>>>Gamma Rays are not Radio Waves. sorry, i don't think that this qualifies.
>>>
>>NOT!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>Gamma rays most certainly *are* radio waves in that they are photons.
>>
>>"Alpha rays" and "beta rays" are not radio waves; they are
>>particles (an alpha particle being a helium nucleus, more or less and a
>>beta particle being an electron).
>>
>>Let's keep our physics streight!
>>
>
>Actually, "alpha rays" and "beta rays" are radio waves.  Remember the 
>de Broglie wavelength and wave-particle duality.
>
>Tracy N. Tipping (N0OEY (and member of the research staff of the Kansas 
>                  State University Physics Department))
>
>Back off man, I'm a scientist!
>


Actually, I meant to edit out "radio" and just state that they were 
waves.  Since the discussion was pushing the edge, I thought I'd see 
if I could throw it over.  Numerous people caught (and told me about) 
my error.  I should have used a smilie...

Tracy

--
=====================================================================
tipping@phys.ksu.edu              |		     Practicing to be
tipping@ksuvm.bitnet		  |		     a dirty old man.
=====================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:58:30 GMT
From: sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!brtph560!nrtpa038!harp@ames.arpa
Subject: KH0AM QSL Route
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <MAILQUEUE-99.921211092449.288@TAEX003N> g-taylor4@tamu.EDU writes:
>Does anyone have the QSL route for KH0AM who was active in the CQWW CW
>contest last month? Thanks.

>Greg...KD4HZ

>g-taylor4@tamu.edu


>******************************************************************************
>Dr. Gregory S. Taylor               !MAIL:  110 Dairy Science Building
>Extension Program Leader for        !       College Station, TX 77843-2124
>  Community Development             !VOICE: 409-845-4445
>Texas Agricultural Extension Service!FAX:   409-847-8744
>Texas A&M University System         !EMAIL: Reply or g-taylor4@tamu.edu
>******************************************************************************
via JE1CKA

****************************************************************************
* Alan Harp K4PB     *     Bell-Northern Research      *   CW FOREVER      *
* mail: harp@bnr.ca  *   Research Triangle Park, NC    *                   *
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 22:51:32 GMT
From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatech!concert!samba!usenet@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Literature
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

As a new ham (5 weeks post exam pass date, still patiently waiting for
my license), I'm doing what is probably the usual newbee thing and 
requesting literature from various manufacturers.  I picked up the CQ
Amateur Radio 1993 buyers guide, which was chocked full of
telephone numbers.

I've requested a few basics, general catalogs from Yaseu, Alinco & Icom,
an antenna catalog from Larsen, etc, but I've got two questions:

If I call Belden (wire & cable), will they send me something useful
regarding the different types of coax (and other stuff) they sell, 
regarding prices, signal loss, insulation material, etc?  I figure this
is probably a pretty hefty book, and I'm obviously not going to buy
miles of the stuff, so do they send such info for free to amateurs?

My other question regards a "Tone and Code Finder" from Automated
Industrial Electronics Corp (advertised in the ARRL 92-93 Repeater
Directory).  Does anyone have any experience with this?  I do some
work with public safety communications, and am also a fairly hard-core
scanner enthusiast, and I've been looking for some way to get these tones
cheaply, and this definately fits the bill.  I tried to call them,
but got only a constant ringing (no answer).  Any info on these
products would be most appreciated.  (FYI:  For those not in the know,
it looks like it comes with a Uniden BC-950 scanner, and will display
PL and DPL tones, save them, or print them via RS-232 interface).

-ks
KD6...

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 92 17:39:15 EST
From: titan.ksc.nasa.gov!k4dii.ksc.nasa.gov!user@ames.arpa
Subject: PL... ham vs. commercial rigs
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <9212081325.tn50958@aol.com>, tstader@aol.COM wrote:
..
..
> But... one of our users is using an Icom commercial rig tuned to the 440
> repeater and the rest of us are running standard ham gear. The guy with the
> Icom has absolutely NO noise burst after he un-keys while the rest of us do!

Terry-

Most of the Two Meter rigs can send the CTCS tone to get into the repeater,
but either can't use tone squelch, or aren't set up to use it.  Many tone
operated repeaters do not repeat the tone, but filter it out.  I suspect
your repeater rebroadcasts it, and that the Icom commercial rig is using
tone squelch on receive.  It just happens to have a shorter squelch-tail
than the repeater does.

I agree with comments from others - you should fix the repeater, not the
user's receivers.  You could use the time-delay method, but you also might
consider getting a new repeater receiver with a faster tone squelch.

73, Fred, K4DII

fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 92 03:11:21 GMT
From: sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!undr!seanp@ames.arpa
Subject: PL... ham vs. commercial rigs
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

tstader@aol.COM writes:

> > Congratulations.  You've just discovered "Chicken Burst".
> 
> It is really called this? What is it's commercial application really called?

        Both Motorola and GE call this effect STE, or Squelch Tail
        Elimination.  

> 
> Has anyone ever contacted Kenwood and asked them.... maybe it's built-in
> alreay... jumper?
> 

        I don't know of much ham gear that has it built in, but I know
        that 99% of all programmable commercial gear from the last 5
        years to the present has it built in, and is available through
        the software for tx and rx.

        Motorola used to use it for the reason everyone states, but it
        was originally intended to stop the 'Vibrasponders' or PL reeds
        in the old trunk units.

        Nothing is new, just new versions of old things.

        Sean

---
Sean Petty                           undr!seanp@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM
ICBMnet: 39'58'12"N 75'84'26"W       seanp@undr.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:29:57 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!fcr@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: TS-820
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

>Leonard, KB2R:  "Any other satisfied (or not) 820 owners out there?"

I too purchased a used TS820, and am pleased with it for the most part.

In article <1992Dec7.230614.19375@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> little@nuts2u.enet.dec.com (nuts2u::little) writes:
>
>Oh yeah, one other thing although not really a complaint, just a note to
>other 820S owners.  When mine arrived, the digital display was acting very
>weird.  Wrong frequency displayed, missing parts of digits, one digit
>completely missing, etc.  This apparently is pretty common with this rig. 
>Fortunately the fix is trivial.  Simply open up the radio and clean and/or
>re-seat the connectors going to the board that controls the digital display
>unit.  The display works perfectly now. :-)
>

I had this same problem, but it was not so simple to fix.  Reseating the 
connectors did not do it.  The digital display boards and all of the other
boards that are in the rig were not properly cleaned when the rig was first
built.  There was solder flux left on the boards that had turned gummy
in some spots, and chalky in others.  I ended up cleaning the display boards
to get rid of the flux and then they worked with the exception of one
digit where the problem was traced to a bad driver transistor.  Replaced
that, and the display was back.  

The flux really messed up the noise figure of the receiver though.  I cleaned
the input filter board, and the if board, so that now the lower
frequency bands are working fairly well, but still have not
got the problem fixed on 10-20 meters.  The audio on these bands is just
below the noise level, so I get a headache trying to listen.  This was a
radio that was sold to me in "perfect" condition.  I only paid $400 for
the TS-820S and the VFO-820 though, so I am not complaining too much.

Frank Robey
fcr@ll.mit.edu
KA1YLB

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 10:01:40 PST
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!mgb@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Yaesu FR-890AT
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

I'm considering buying this Transceiver and would appreciate some feedback
on the radio as well as the best place to purchase it.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:09:18 GMT
From: ucsd.edu!brian@network.UCSD.EDU
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

References <1g33tnINNi5r@topaz.bds.com>, <1g3e8tINN303@network.ucsd.edu>, <1ga4viINNoem@sam.ksu.ksu.edu>
Subject : Re: PL... ham vs. commercial rigs

steve@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Schallehn) writes:
>Hu? If you run full-duplex on a repeater, how do you overcome feedback
>problems?  Does the correct phasing minimize the possibility of
>feedback?

No, phasing doesn't eliminate feedback.  What we do is get the users to
turn their microphone gain down.

Of course, if people are afraid to open their radios and adjust the
mic gain, there's no hope.
	- Brian

------------------------------

End of Info-Hams Digest V92 #1302
******************************