From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: More on guys who aren't dating Ed Wrig
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 03:45:13 GMT

In article 718068521@convex.convex.com, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>I never said she was "perfect" or that I never got within 50
>feet of her.  She was a PhD on the science faculty at a local 
>university, didn't enjoy sports, did enjoy camping, hiking, 
>dancing, horseback riding... just about everything I could
>hope for.  

Camping and hiking are sports, so are dancing and horseback riding.
They are not team sports...I understand. No, I'm not picking a fight,
just trying to clear things in my mind.

>True, but the question is, will I ever meet someone who
>I *want* to be "possible to live with" quite as much as her?
 
How can anybody want to live with somebody they haven't met? You probably 
will meet somebody who isn't into playing games, and therefore more
desirable anyway.

>she would go places with you as part of a group, but never be
>alone with you because she thought it was inappropriate.  You'd probably
>feel pretty insulted, right?

>  It doesn't matter who or what you are.  He will go out
>with you in a group, or do whatever else he believes is "appropriate", but
>never even consider the possiblity of anything more, just because of the
>way you look.  How would you feel?

Kinda let down. It's a shame that some people are really like this...Never
mind the hypothetical example. There are people that I have met who, for
one reason or another, judge you (not you personally, it's the generalising
"you") by what you look like. Then they decide by looks whether or not they
will get friendly. Too bad they miss out on some good friendships because
some people have big noses or bugged out eyes,etc. 

People are people no matter what they look like, They all experience the same emotions,triumphs and let-downs. I think it's more a matter of what we make of 
these experiences, and what we learn from them.

 Physical attraction, on the other hand, is avery subjective thing. I find 
all people attractive IN THEIR OWN UNIQUE WAYS, but some more than others. 
For example, If you had a girlfriend and described her to me, I would probably 
be interested in meeting her, but upon meeting her it's possible that I would 
see her differently from the way you described her because my tastes are not 
the same as yours. Because of our differences in taste, my hypothetical
girlfriend would be the sexiest to me but a cow to you.

Now, It's not my fault if some girl doesn't find me attractive. Why should
I worry about it? By the same token, it's not my fault if some girl does
find me attractive. Why worry about that? If someone is hesitant or over-
joyed to go out with me alone, fine. If she's hesitant, I'll get another
date or go out cruising alone. If she's overjoyed, great! we'll have a
pleasant time.

So. Some people might be accusing you of not necessarily judging women
by their looks, but by their academic achievements. I know many brilliant
women, quick, witty, intelligent...who never graduated from high school.
You use a PhD. as a criterium for judging what women you will date...This
time I do mean you, Ed, so aren't you kind of cutting off lots of available
women who could be good for you, but forget it because they lack that all-
important piece of paper?

Remember what I said about taste? It is subjective. This is an example of your 
taste. Fine, I respect that. I'm just trying to understand it. 

>Finally, a lot of guys are really concerned about their physical
>appearance, and feel insecure if a woman does not find it attractive.
>He may be hoping that, if he persists, you'll eventually admit that
>you really found him attractive all along, silencing one of his biggest
>fears.

Naw, persistence will only make her more adamant. Let's say there is a 
woman that you meet somewhere and she finds YOU attractive. She turns
on the charm, and slinks around you so as to attract your attention.
You don't like her coming on so strong. It bothers you. You tell her
you're not really interested. You ask her kindly to leave you alone.
She didn't really attract you in the first place, and you really feel
annoyed. She still keeps on going because she just hears what she wants
to hear. This happened to me one night in a bar. I was shooting pool
with an old friend that I hadn't seen in a long time. I was leaning on
the wall and this drunken slut came up to me, fondled my crotch, and
started rubbing herself on my leg.

   She was like an octopus and wouldn't leave me alone. Now do I tell
her to please (four letter word) off? or wait around until I get to
like her? She was probably real insecure. She had feelings,too! I just
ignored her and she went away after a while. She got the message. 
Maybe I would have found her attractive under other circumstances,
her behavior was plain rude.

If this girl was to tell the guy he's attractive, she'd never get any peace.
The thing that worked best on me when I still pursued girls was when
they would clearly ignore me. I would figure it was not worth it, and
find another girl to bother.

Andy.

KINDLY ENJOY MY OBVIOUS IGNORANCE.
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