From: tnnrtg@tnb.phys.tue.nl (Tonnie Geraets)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Installing DECwindows-MOTIF on ONE systym of a cluster (Summary).
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:21:41 GMT
Reply-To: tnnrtg@ctrl.phys.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology.

Some time ago I asked the following question:
>We have a cluster of VAXstations (all running standard DECwindows) and want
>to install DECwindows Motif on ONE of the systems, partly because we only
>have one license and partly because most users don't need it yet.
> 
>After reading the installation guide this seems a little problematic:
>DW-motif is installed in the common directories (not in the specific) and
>will overwrite files of the standard DECwindows and I'm afraid that as a
>consequence DECwindows will not run any longer on the other systems because
>of lack of a license.
> 
>Has anyone done this before or does anybody know a solution?

I received some replies which are summarized below.

Our system administrator didn't dare to take the risk of installing
DECwindows MOTIF using one of the suggested methods, so we decided to obtain
some more licences.... 

But first a question to DEC: Why do you force the user (installer) to
install DECwindows MOTIF cluster-wide, and don't you give him the
opportunity to install it local?

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[Michael asked a simular question some time before and I sent him a personal
message. ]

From: weise%vs31mw.dnet@server.uga.edu (Michael J. Weise)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 09:27:11 -0500

	Unfortunately, I didn't get any answers to the question about
keeping both DW and DW-Motif up and running.  We also have more VAXstations
than licenses and that was part of the reason I was asking.  I've decided to
put off doing anything along these lines until I see comments that say
DW-Mofif is in better shape.  Recent notes on the network said the the
initial release of Motif was buggy.

	I have, however, had a chance to look at a machine running Motif and
think the following approach could be taken to make both DW and its Motif
version available concurrently.  Take all the pieces of DW and copy them to
another directory tree that you create (I don't know what this tree should
look like as I haven't thought that much about doing this just yet).  Do a
SHOW LOGICAL DECW* to get a list of currently used logicals to places for DW
then create a COM file to redefine them so they point to the appropriate
places in backup tree.  Machines that will not use Motif should have these
logicals defined during startup.  You may have to look at DECW$Startup.COM
and see if this needs to be different for DW and DW-Motif machines. Again, I
haven't looked close enough at this to know whether this needs to be done.

	I would try to do the above before installing Motif.  Make the
backup tree, setup the logicals redefinition and do what you think might be
the needed starup modifications.  Pick a test machine and see if you get DW
running without problems.  If you can't, then I've given you some bad
advice.  If you are successful, it seems reasonable to procede with
installation of Motif and then setup cluster startup so that each machine
picks the right GUI.

	On thing I did learn from replies to my post was that customization
files for FileView in DW and Motif are not compatible.  This could be a real
problem if you have users who login at several VAXstation: they may be in
for surprizes if they work parttime on a DW machine and then try to do
things on a machine with Motif.  This may be another situation which
requires the redefinition of logicals ( DECW$USER_DEFAULTS in particular ).

	I hope the above helps.  If you have any luck, I'd certainly like to
hear about it.

		MJW
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Maybe a better solution could be to do it the other way around:
Put MOTIF on another place by modifying the install script (if this is
possible) and make a separate startup script for it.
-Tonnie

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From: eric@tardis.hq.ileaf.com (Eric Sosman x4425)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 17:48:04 EST

    We did this in a VMS 5.4-3 LAVC by setting up a second system
disk, booting from it, installing DECwindows Motif, and booting from
the original disk.  Then we did all the usual things one does to
support a cluster with more than one system disk: defining logical
names for SYSUAF, RIGHTSLIST, and so on, and making sure our command
procedures could deal with SYS$SYSDEVICE having different translations
on different cluster members.  Finally, we set up some satellites to
boot from the "vanilla" disk and others from the "Motif" disk.

    This wasn't easy and there may be better ways, but it's working for
us.  I don't think it'll be easy to maintain this configuration through
a VMS upgrade, though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Sosman                                         eric@hq.ileaf.com
Interleaf, Inc. / Prospect Place, 9 Hillside Ave. / Waltham, MA 02154
=====================================================================

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From: "FRED W. BACH" <music@erich.triumf.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 18:53:47 PST

In article <tnnrtg.701967265@tnb.phys.tue.nl>, you write...
[copy of orignal posting deleted.]

   We tried it here and got hosed.  In theory it was supposed to work, but
  whenever a DECwindows station went down, it re-booted with motif and 
  with problems.  The operators were furious that Controls could screw
  up like this.  Anyway, we're running motif now and customizing it as
  we can.  Some VISTA Control Systems application(s) ran *really* slow
  under motif.  The pictures would update a line a second or so. This
  was very painful but was cleared up by re-linking the application
  properly.

  The Controls Cluster is down for upgrade to 5.5 , etc., now, so you
  would have to send mail to GRANT@ERICH.TRIUMF.CA to talk to the
  Controls people.


    Fred W. Bach                             Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
    Operations group,                        Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 278/419
    TRIUMF (TRi-University Meson Facility)   FAX:    604-222-1074
    4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS
    University of British Columbia,
    Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3
 
  Disclaimer:
 
     These are my opinions, based on my experience, and in NO way
     necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow employees.
     My opinions should only get you to read and ask questions.
 
        ** I'm just a humble programmer working at my terminal. **

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From: "What does this button do..." <robbie@winkle.bhpese.oz.au>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1992 12:56:05 +1000

We had to create a second system disk in the cluster,
making one DECwindows and the other MOTIF.

Sorry that it is not terribly *clever* solution but it 
worked.

					Rob Spencer
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END of replies.

Hope this helps anyone.

-Tonnie

-- 
Tonnie Geraets                                E-mail: tonnie@ctrl.phys.tue.nl
Department of Physics     Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands