HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jck@kimba.catt.citri.edu.au (Justin Kibell)
Subject: Hazard Lights on Emergency Vehicles
Keywords: Lights
Organization: CATT Centre at CITRI, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 23:42:05 GMT

While watching shows such as 911 and Cops etc., I have noticed that the
Ambulance Services and other emergency vehicles look like Christmas Trees
with the number of domes, strobes and other generally flashing objects.

In Australia (Victoria) we seem to manage with only 2 dome lights (1 red 1 blue)
on Police vehicles and on larger emergency vehicles flip flops in the gril
and maybe another two domes on the back. It is actually considered to be a bit
wanky if you have lights all over the place.

Are all those strobes and whatnot really necessary? Only curious. Do the public
respond better to that many lights or is it for show?

Justin Kibell - Victoria State Emergency Service - Eltham Unit - Volunteers. AUS
From: Kurt.Ullman@f290.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Kurt Ullman)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: SEARCH AND RESCUE SOPS
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 13:33:00 -0800

EJ>For what it's worth, my squad's lawyer recommended replacing our
SOPs
EJ>with SOGs.  Standard Operating Guidelines.  You can't be faulted for
EJ>not following a "guideline" to the letter.

        That is, IMHO, a distinction without a difference.  If you get
hauled into court, those "guidelines" will also be brought in with you
and you will still have to justify any deviations in the minds of the
jury. I canjust about guarantee that the plaintiff's attoryney will
have
your system for lunch if you try that method.  I can see the arched
eyebrows and the what are they hiding look now.
 * Origin: The RoadHouse BBS <<ASP>> Indpls, IN (317) 784-2147
((1:231/290.0)
From: William.J..Vital@f430.n107.z1.fidonet.org (William J. Vital)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Hazard lights on emergenc
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:20:00 GMT


          Justin Kibell sent

While watching shows such as 911 and Cops etc., I have noticed that the
Ambulance Services and other emergency vehicles look like Christmas with
the number of domes, strobes and other generally flashing objects. Are
all those strobes and whatnot really necessary? Only curious. Do the
respond better to that many lights or is it for show?

I can't speak for all the USA but, in New Jersey, the drivers don't see
or hear (allegedly) when an emergency vehicle is comming upon them. It's
getting to the point that any emergency vehicle needs all the lights
(both strobes and rotators) that can be mounted on it. The motorists
don't even hear the newer electronic sirens we use. (I guess with the
windows rolled up and the new ??? music blasting the vehicle's occupants
can't even hear themselves think.) <G>

===
 * TLX v1.55* If this is a service economy, why is the service so bad?


 * Origin: The Shadowlands BBS (1:107/430.0)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: Kirk.Smith@launchpad.unc.edu (Kirk Smith)
Subject: Mace/tear gas
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:39:10 GMT

I'm looking for distributors of chemical Mace tear-gas weapons.  I
recently took and passed a California permit class (yes, we require
permits for EVERYTHING in California), and have no dealers to supply
me within 300 miles (at least...I'm not sure what's available in
Los Angeles or San Francisco).  Our instructor gave us a photocopy
of the Gall's catalog page with Mace on them, and told us to order
from there.  When I called today, they informed me that new policy
dictates that they won't sell to California (and a few other states
where permits are required).  Argh..  I offered to photocopy and
fax my permit, but they said no.  So I called the manufacturer in
Vermont (Mark Sport, Inc), and they said they'd sell me the stuff,
but for $17.99 per can (Gall's had it for $10.99/can).  Why is
the manufacturer charging me MORE than a distributor?  They wouldn't
give me any names of California dealers either.  Ugg...

So, I guess I'm basically looking for phone numbers of mail order Mace
dealers.  I'll call them all and see who will ship to CA.

I think it would have been easier to get a CCW for a handgun.  :-(

-ks

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EMERG-L@MARIST.BITNET
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:54:37 -0400
From:         TRAUMA JUNKIE <JAT8419@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bus accident.

I assume that this is in NYS and if so the ER CANNOT close, they CAN
request a bypass but you are under no obligation to honor it.


        The Er cannot close, but it common practice not to bring a "red"
hospital a pt. unless it is a code.  If the pt. insits on going to the Er that
is code red, they are asked to sign a form that says they know there may be a
very long wait before they get treatment for their injuries

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John A. Ternay
Emergency Medical Services Certified First Responder
Pre-Medical Studies                             R.I.T. Ambulance
MD2B                                    Cornwall Volunteer Ambulance Corps.
                        "Trauma Junkie"
            "We make house-calls....all night long"
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: Phoograpers on scene.
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:17:01 GMT

In article <721252273.F00039@remote.halcyon.com>, James.Campbell@f145.n150.z1.fidonet.org (James Campbell) writes:
>  for the 2nd time, they were escorted back the first time by a state
>  tooper.
>  

The trick is to NOT escort out their gear. :-) If its in a DEEP puddle or
a pool of mud, well, thats their problem...

~Paul
From: Jim.Malkowski@f206.n2604.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Malkowski)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: What is policy for driving
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 09:36:00 -0800

 >Policy in what regards? Response nature (lights/siren, etc?).
 >
 >Our department allows volunteer to have red lights and sirens (a siren
is
 >required by law when a red light is used) if they have a state
permit,
 >which certifies the vehicle as an emergency vehicle. To get this
permit,
 >the chief and mayor must approve an application completed by the
volunteer.
 >Before they will sign it, we must have a letter from the volunteer's
 >vehicle insurance company stating that they are aware of the
volunteer's
 >intended use of the vehicle and that the insurance company approves
and
 >will cover the vehicle for such use.

Thankyou, This is what I was wondering. Not so much the lights, but what
do 
you do upon coming to a Red light, Even in a green light you go with 
caution, but should you wait at the Red? items like that...

 * Origin: "Clinton and Florio, Perfect together." - Bush '92
(1:2604/206)
From: Jack.Still@p3.f211.n270.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Still)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: PA DOH
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:19:05 -0800

In a message on <Nov 09 17:17>, Scott R. Weis KB2EAR of 1:343/94
writes:

 SRWK> From: kb2ear@kb2ear.ampr.org (Scott R. Weis KB2EAR)


 SRWK> Could some one please send me the address for the PA DOH.  I 
 SRWK> would like to send in for my EMT cert before it's too late. 
 SRWK> 
717-787-5901   800-692-7254  not sure if the 800 number works out of
state.

 * Origin: Point #3 ===> The Mdtn_BBS Point #3  (1:270/211.3)
From: Darrin.Culver@f53.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Darrin Culver)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Albany Conference
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:07:00 GMT

BM>   the same. Initially the conference rate was $80.00 up to
BM>   Oct. 1st, then 100.00 up to Nov. 1st, then "now" $150.00
BM>   OUCH!!!  But they gave it to me for the $80.00, I had just
BM>   received the brochure from my old partner Mon. 11\02

        Did the information you recieved say anything about admission
to
        the Display floor only?? Thanks.

BM>   Hope this helps, Shreyas Shah from NYC EMS and myself will
BM>   be attending so far from here, hope to see you there :)  !

                       ME TOO!!!!!


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic


 * Origin: BEAR HEAVEN BBS (914) 677-6948 MILLBROOK NY (1:272/53)
From: Paul.Vallone@f233.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Vallone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Patch/tape swap
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 10:16:00 -0800

On <03 Nov, 16:12>, Joe Nicholson wrote to Richard Brevik :

JN>      *** You thus spoke:
JN>
JN> RB>  I will be at the muster/competition as early as I can on the
JN> RB> 7th.  I am planning on being there early.  I will look for you.
JN>
JN> We're leaving Friday to get a good night's rest that evening before
JN> activities begin Saturday.  See you there.
JN> If we don't get in too late, will phone and let you know we arrived
JN> safely in one piece.  <g>
JN>
Hi Joe:
I was wondering if you would be interested in trading patches with me.
I'll trade yah a Lanesboro Fire Patch for one of yours , as soon as I
receive
yours in the mail. I'll send you one of our patches to you..

Paul Vallone
P.o. Box 249
Lanesboro,Ma
01237

                        Later..
                         Paul ..  
 
 * Origin: Whistle Stop BBS {Berkshire County Fire Board} (1:321/233.0)
From: abcs3500@Oswego.EDU (Bill Wood)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: emergency driving
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:33:57 GMT
Reply-To: abcs3500@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Bill Wood)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

for all those interested, here is the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Laws 
Pertaining to Emergency Vehicles... this should shed some light 
(sorry, I just couldn't resist) on the subject.


section 1104   Authorized Emerg. Vehicles

(a)  the driver of an authorized emerg vehicle, when involved in an 
emergency operation, may exercise the privileges set forth in this 
section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.

(b)  the driver of an authorized emerg vehicle may:

   1. stop, stand, or park irrespective of the provisions of this title;
   2.  proceed past a steady red signal, a flashing red signal, or a stop
sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
   3.  Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he does not endanger like or
property;
   4.  disregard regulations governing directions of movement or turning in
specified directions.

...

(e)  the foregoing provisions shall not relieve the driver of an authorized
emerg vehicle from the duty to drive with the due regard for the safety of 
all persons, nor shall such provisions protect the driver from the 
consequences of his reckless disregard for the safety of others.


section 1144 Operation of vehicles on approach of authorized emerg
vehicles.

(a) upon the immediate approach of an authorized emerg vehicle equipped
with at least one lighted lamp exhibiting red light visible under normal 
atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet to the front
of such vehicle ... and when audible signals are sounded from any said
vehicle by siren, exhaust whistle or bell; the driver of every other 
vehicle shall yield the right of way ....

(b) this section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized
emerg vehicle from the duty to drive with reasonalbe care for all persons
using the highway.


Bill
SAVAC
From: robinson@stout.geo.brown.edu (Darrin Robinson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: mutual/automatic aid pacts
Date: 9 Nov 1992 14:43:27 GMT
Organization: Brown University, Providence RI 02912
NNTP-Posting-Host: stout.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov7.160713.20993@news.ysu.edu> af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks) writes:
>
>We are a 30-man paid department with about 15 vollys we actually
>use only a few times a year. We have three stations. If we need
>more air bottles or more manpower (like the last time an 
>apartment complex caught fire - about last January.) we call our
>neighboring (paid and volly alike) departments. We have
>reciprocal mutual aid agreements with every bordering community.
>
>Stay in the shade!
>

Mutual aid is helpful in all emergency services... in my home "town"
Newport, RI... it is common for Newport and its neighbor Middletown to
provide mutual Fire/EMS Aid, but also Police aid...  many a times NPD
assists MPD with problems that the MPD couldn't handle (with a smaller
department)... and at times MPD assists NPD when they have large "riot"
"melees" and its 35 on-duty officers in full riot gear is just NOT enough!
Besides... Middletown PD has some nice police dogs!  Newport doesn't have
any dogs.

Darrin

 .  Darrin E. Robinson (DER31)         Hamnet   N1LLV  146.700-, 146.880= MHz
/|  Systems Programmer II              Internet darrin@mit.edu
\|  Dist. Computing & Network Services          robinson@porter.geo.brown.edu
 |\ MIT Information Systems            ICBMnet  41 29 24 N  71 18 48 W (NPT)
 |/ 1 Amherst St. - Rm E40-338         NASAmail derobinson@nasamail.nasa.gov
 .  Cambridge, MA 02319                AT&Tnet  (617) 253-0131
From: Bob.Reynolds@f290.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Reynolds)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Professional Lecturers
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:05:02 -0800

 RB>  his experiences.  Our attendance is expected to close at
 RB>  approx. 400, and will be April 17, 18 1992.
 RB>          Any coorespondence will be geniuly appreciated
 RB>                          Thanks so much
 RB>                                          Ron A. Brown
 RB>  NR-EMT-P, President
 RB>                          West Ohio Paramedic/Nurses
 RB>  Alliance

Ron:
   If you would, and if it's feasible,  let me know where this event 
is going to take place.  I know some people from here in the 
Indianapolis area that would be interested in attending.  My wife is 
from Celina, Ohio and we travel all through western Ohio frequently. 
 Thanks for any information you can give me on it.  I'm sorry that I 
don't have anyone or anything worth contributing to you for your 
seminar....  Later, and Keep up the good work!
 
                     -=Bob=-
 * Origin: The RoadHouse BBS <<ASP>> Indpls, IN (317) 784-2147
((1:231/290.0)
From: George.Vaisey@f237.n260.z1.fidonet.org (George Vaisey)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Patches++
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 19:22:00 -0800

Paul
        Yep FIRE.GIF or anything else you've got I would like.  What is
the number of your BBs I'll try and call it.  In about 6-8 wks we will
get them in.  Thanks again for your patientence.


                       George

 * Origin: PARADISE, BBS -Rochester, NY- (716) 621-7637 (1:260/237)
From: Gary.Saffer@f290.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Saffer)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Philly
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1992 04:17:00 -0800

"BFI}From: "Wm. Bryant Faust, IV" <WFAUST@NNOMED.BITNET>

"BFI}>
    }> As it is though, it is amazing that a city the size of Philly has
less
    }> than 30 ambulances ('Medic' units). Think about it...What other
major ci
    }> has so few units for the population served?
    }>
    }The City of New Orleans Health Department operates 8 ambulances and
one
    }light rescue unit in a 911 service.  They have more units, but that
is
    }all that you will find staffed and on the road at any one time. 
They
    }still manage to keep an average response time under eight minutes,
but
    }the staff is really worked hard.  A paramedic friend of mine
handled
    }22 items on a 12 hour shift last March.  Now they are beginning to
roll
    }over some code 3 calls to private services when all their units are
tied
    }up on calls.  I don't know how big Phillys population is, but 8
units/
    }500,000 population seems to be cutting it pretty close to me.

8 units for 500,000 population is pretty close to me. I work in Boston
with a permanent population of 600,000 and a day time population of
1,200,000. In addition to the census population there are thousands of
visitors and college students so we probably have 700,000 or more
around
the clock. We have 11 BLS and 3 ALS units from 7:00 am to 11:00 pm.
After that it is 10 and 2. We do about 90,000 calls a year and our
busiest BLS truck does just over 10,000 calls a year. We hope to get
some more trucks up in the next year or so.  22 calls in a 12 hour
shift
is too many for good patient care IMHO.

BTW, I collect patches and wonder if you or your friend would be
interested in trading. Let me know.

Later

Gary

 * Origin: Kids And Cops _ Lynn, MA _ (617) 599-2499 _ (1:101/290)
From: Chris.Howell@f10.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Howell)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: HELLO
Date: 27 Oct 92 09:34:00 GMT

patrick, which amb co do you work for in san anton??   chris


 * Origin: Connect America #3, Austin, Tx, 512-459-3351 (1:382/10.0)
From: Kevin.Agard@f94.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin Agard)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: AFA training..
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 08:37:00 -0800

  >>good. What do you guys think? Should I get the AFA and then get
more
  >>training, or go right to further training? And, is the Red Cross
changing
  >>their system around in '93, and should I wait to get my AFA... I'm a
very
  >>broke college student who can't really afford to take more than is
  >>necessary.

Diana,

Prehospital medicine has evolved dramatically over the past 20 years.
AFA was, in it's time, the standard of care. This was at a time when
ambulance crews basically ran "scope and swoop" operations. Although
there are still ambulnace organizations (mostly volunteer) who will
allow you to ride with CPR & AFA, they are IMHO doing a dis-service to
the communities they serve. They are providing an inferior level of
care, thereby puttting the public at greater risk.

The legal ramifications to some of these organizations are interesting
but have yet to be litigated. However, I would not want to be in the
position of having to defend these policies.

All of the above aside, what you really have to ask yourself is "why do
I want to get involved in EMS?" If your answer is anything other than
you have a desire to help people, forget it! It is a bad idea it ride
on an ambulance.

If you do want to help others the answer to your question should be
obvious. Ask yourself this: If you were lying in the street critically
injured, who would you want taking care of you, someone with 40 hours
of
training (AFA), or someone with triple that training (EMT).

Regards

KMA

 * OLX 2.2 * THIS MESSAGE PROTECTED BY SMITH AND WESSON


 * Origin: Deredain's Realm BBS - Home of NJ EMT & Paramdedic Assoc.
From: Michelle.Wicker@f701.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Michelle Wicker)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Mace/tear gas
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 12:10:02 -0800

 -=> Quoting Kirk Smith to All <=-

 KS> I'm looking for distributors of chemical Mace tear-gas weapons.  I
 KS> recently took and passed a California permit class (yes, we
require
 KS> permits for EVERYTHING in California), and have no dealers to
supply
 KS> me within 300 miles (at least...I'm not sure what's available in
 KS> Los Angeles or San Francisco).  Our instructor gave us a photocopy
 KS> of the Gall's catalog page with Mace on them, and told us to order
 KS> from there.  When I called today, they informed me that new policy
 KS> dictates that they won't sell to California (and a few other
states
 KS> where permits are required). 
 
 yes..it looks like you will have some problems getting this
 stuff in CA...there are several types of "mace" there is 
 OC (oleoresin capsicum-pepper mace) 
 out of the "survival products" catalog. ph# 1-800-323-0037
 disclaimer- some states may limit or prohibit use of OC 
 aerosols. check with your legal advisor.
 punch(tm) 1/2 oz. 1% solution 10.95 w/black key ring case
 punch 2(tm) 2oz. 5% solution(law officers only) 16.95
 black case, belt clip included
 punch 2(tm) 4oz. 5% solution(law officers only) 14.95
 no carrying case, no clip, fits into standard chemical agent
 cannister belt carrier
 out of "special duty" catalog. ph# 1-800-333-5102
 disclaimer- cannot be shipped to CA,NYC,NV,MI,WI,or DC.
 CN teargas- "curb 20 pocket model",25 grams, 7.95
 "curb 20 police model",100 grams, 11.95
 "pocket phaser" 4oz. 14.95
 "phaser 1" 9oz. 24.95
 "mace" 24 grams, 16.95
 CS gas- "belt clip CS protector" 3/4 oz. 10.95
 "pocket key ring CS protector" 1/2 oz. 8.95
 this should give you an idea of prices and possibly you can
 purchase through these companies with the proper verification..
 hope this helps...take care!!!

 

... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!
 * Origin: Code-3 Arlington, Tx. Police Dept. (817) 459-5345
(1:130/701.0)
From: Rick.Wilson@f2112.n327.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: an old friend
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 19:03:03 -0800

* In a message originally to Barbara Mezzanini, Wes Williams babbled:

ww> I was reading some old mail the other day, a packet dated
ww> 04-02-92 had a post from you here, stating Regina Franchi
ww> was in the Military (forget branch) doing her basic
ww> training, and you posted her address. Is this the same
ww> Regina from the Boston area? If so, do you have her current
ww> address?

Gee....I haven't heard THAT name in a LONG time!!

Used to yak with Regina on Delphi!

 * Origin: Coming To You From Connecticuts Quiet Corner! (1:327/2112)
From: George.Vaisey@f237.n260.z1.fidonet.org (George Vaisey)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: RE: Thank
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 18:33:00 -0800

Tom,
        Received your papers.  Thanks for taking the time.
we are not allowed into a fire unless with a district officer and CALLED
UNER CONTROL, but we mainly gopher.  We do have time limits and
restrictions.  If you would like to learn more let me know.    Also
could I now the State you are in COUNTY and FIRE FREQUENCY for that
county along with a BREIF DESCRIPTION.  I would like to use it in a
d-Base that I'm using for frequencies. Thanks again for your help and
write me if you would like more info on our FD.


                 George Vaisey

 * Origin: PARADISE, BBS -Rochester, NY- (716) 621-7637 (1:260/237)
From: Bob.Schwiesow@f88.n344.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Schwiesow)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Hazard Lights On Emergenc
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 20:55:00 -0800

>Are all those strobes and whatnot really necessary? Only curious. Do
th
>public
>respond better to that many lights or is it for show?
>

The best thing that has happen to me with the public getting out of the

way. Was when we made the high beams light flash back and forth.  I
have
seen a big impovement with this set up


                    bob
                                  
 * Origin: CloseNough BBS 509-886-0121 (1:344/88)
From: Rick.Wilson@f2112.n327.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Hazard lights on emergenc
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 18:58:01 -0800

* In a message originally to Justin Kibell, William J. Vital babbled:

wv> While watching shows such as 911 and Cops etc., I have
wv> noticed that the Ambulance Services and other emergency
wv> vehicles look like Christmas with the number of domes,
wv> strobes and other generally flashing objects. Are all those
wv> strobes and whatnot really necessary? Only curious. Do the
wv> respond better to that many lights or is it for show?

No, I seriously doubt it's for show.

Normally, if an ambulance/police car/fire truck is coming at you from
behind, you're supposed to pull over to the side of the road and let
them pass.

Here in N.E. Ct. it appears to be customary that if a person pulls over
to the side of the road, and there's another citizen behind them, the
one behind passes...they don't pull over and let the emergency vehicle
by.

I've NEVER seen the stunts people here in New England pulled in the
midwest...if they DID pull them in the midwest, they'd get nailed BIG
time.

 * Origin: Coming To You From Connecticuts Quiet Corner! (1:327/2112)