From: henwoogr@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Gazza)
Subject: Re: Layout/Pinball sexism?
Keywords: (re)post?
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:28:12 GMT

In article <20254@fritz.filenet.com>, ung@felix.filenet.com (Bill Ung) writes:
> In article <Bv46tB.8H9@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz> henwoogr@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Gazza) writes:
> |[....]
> 
> | Has any one else (besides me) noticed the inherent sexism in some of the
> |pin designs?  HSII seems to worst protagonist in this respect - is it
> |really necessary to propagate such out-moded stereotypes?  Is it likely
> |that a hitch hiker is gonna be wearing next-to-nothing, carrying *nothing*?
> |And worse, still, is s/he gonna say things like "ohh nice car", "ohh nice
> |wheels"? (I forget what else the hitch-hiker says for the moment)  To me,
> |this sort of stereo-type got thrown out years ago, but it is still
> |being perpetrated by a modern pin!  
> 
> Ummm, well, I'm not a big fan of HS2, and have only played a handful of
> games on it, but does it guarantee you that the girl is a hitchiker?  
                                                  ^^^???!!!
Well, do you have any other suggestions why a person would bestanding on the 
side of a road and have a car pull up?  Further, the guy in the car says "hop
in" occasionally.  From the pics on the dot-matrix combined with the voices, 
I got the distinct impression that she was hitching a ride.

> I
> kinda always thought she was on the order of the girls in the Bugle Boy
> commercials.  Basically, flashy-car=flirt-time.  Whether or not the
> stereo-type exists, things like this still happen, all the time.  <-- Does
> that make any sense?

> |Machine Bride of Pinbot also fits into the same category- in a slightly
> |different manner...
> Perhaps you'd like to explain here?  I don't understand what is sexist
> about it.
> 
> |Yeah I know, pins "are only games".  Certainly, the obvious sexism in HSII
> |is not gonna prevent me playing it ...
> |... But stereo-types are dangerous for they imbue the mind, reinforcing
> |outdated ideas.  This is specially important when you consider that lots
> |of children get exposed to the pins in the arcades.
>  ....
> Even if I'm wrong about HS2, and that is a hitchiker, I still don't see
> anything so wrong about her commenting that it's a nice car...

> > Anyway, if pins are teachers, does that mean HS and HS2 teach our kids
> to be disrespectful to cops?  Does T2 teach kids to break into high-
> security buildings?  Does EARTHSHAKER and WHIRLWIND teach kids to cause
> major disasters?  Fruitful thought?  Maybe, maybe not.
> 

mmmmmm....   I think that the argument of just because something happens "all 
the time" does *not* justify perpetuating outmoded (and arguably, harmful)
stereo-types.  Certainly I agree with you that pins are there to make a buck.
But like fashion,etc the designers design something that *they* think that *we* 
the consumers, would like.  Sure, they are certainly mindful of the demographics
of pin playing public (mostly male, etc) and aim their products accroding to
what *they* think that market would like.  but the point is: have they got it
right in this case?  I put it to you guys: do you find it acceptable or not?
I for one would much rather see/play pins that shy away from the more sexist
stereo-types.  Especially when the stero-types have - or least _should_ have - no
part in this "enlightened society" of ours.

I'll admit that the hitchhiker is only a very small part to the overall game
on HSII, and so it probably doesn't warrent that much discussion (after all, 
this is r.g.p, not soc.feminism) and it seems that things are much better than
with the old EMs etc.  But it's interesting to note what assumtions
designers,etc have made about the target consumer....

Speaking of which: Is T2 aimed at the female player?  It seems to me that the 
hand that appears on the display to "show" you to pull the trigger to launch a
ball is a _woman's_.   Is it because the designer thought that Arnie would "pull
in" more women to play the game?   (I doubt it actually - probably other factors
involved)

As far as THE MACHINE goes - (I think others have already noted) its all about
SEX - from the "oh haa haaa~  (I can't transcribe the sounds very well!) when
you "play" with the "body parts" to the (climatic?) "YEEESSSS! YEEEESSS!" when 
the jackpot is scored.

"Pins as teachers??" errrr huge leap made there!  I go back to my original point:
Stereo-types used in everyday situations imbue the mind with things similar to
"well I've seen it so many times - it must be OK/real/happening inthe real world"
I think that most people can differentiate between fantasy and reality, on the
macro level, (like the main point in HSII to run the red light). But its the
underlying assumptions and stereo types that work at another level down from this     (<--does this make sense?)
that a lot of people will not notice as readlily and just seem to work to reinforce old stereotypes.

> By the way, do us a favor and hit return about every 70 some odd
> characters.  Most screens are 80 characters long and editing posts
> that are 255 chars. long is quite the pain in the rear.  Thanks.

Yeah.  Ooops.  Sorry - used a new editor....
> 
> Bill Ung
>   ung@filenet.com
> 






Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball