HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esd3@po.CWRU.Edu (Elisabeth S. Davidson)
Subject: Number of U.S. Pilots  (was Number of small aircraft wanted)
Reply-To: af749@po.CWRU.Edu (Philip D Ferrante)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:06:47 GMT


In a previous article, hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins) says:

>Okay, here are the "Active Certificated Pilots" numbers as reported
>in _AOPA's_Aviation_USA_ 1992 edition.  Data is from 1990.
>
>                              Total          Women
>Pilot Certificates Held      702 659        40 515
.....other categories deleted....

>  Private                    299 111        17 301
>  Commercial                 149 666         5 210
>  ATP                        107 732         2 082
>  Helicopter (only)            9 567           292

>Instrumented Rated           297 073            NA

Hmmm... Let's see, Probably safe to assume (yes I, know about assuming)
that all (ok, nearly all) of the ATPs are IFR.         107732 
Probably most of the Commercial tickets are IFR.    +  149666
                                                    -------------
                                                       257398
If ALL of the Helicopter (only) folks are VFR only
probably not the case, but let's suppose....
                                           IFR         297073    
                                      ATP + COMM    -  257398 
                                                    ------------
That means that only...............................     39675

of Private Pilots are IFR,  or approx 13.26%

Interesting.......
From: gt9989a@prism.gatech.EDU (John Martin Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:27:13 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Today in Gwinett County, Georgia, there was a small plane crash involving a
Cherokee 160.  1 person was killed and 4 were injured.  My question(s) is/are
this.  I got my first 40 or so hours in a Cherokee 180 I think.  I know the
more common Cherokee is the 140.  The one I trained in had 4 seats, and the 
140 has four seats.  So  if I am remembering correctly, and a 160 is just a
variant of the 140 (having 4 seats) isn't the fact that 5 people were in the
plane probable cause for the crash? Or is a 160 the Cherokee 6?

John

-- 
John Martin Chapman
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt9989a
Internet: gt9989a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Moffet Airshow (need info) 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 14:34:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

What kind of aircrafts will be there?  How close can we get to each
type of aircraft as Joe "Just-Walk-in" Public?  I am both a aircraft enthusist 
(ok, maybe not that much, but I am taking PVT lesson) and a photographer, and 
would like to know what kind of lens (how much telephoto) I need to bring.  
Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pilla@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (michael.a.pilla)
Subject: Re: BD-10 status
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:18:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.160441.5938@socrates.umd.edu> john@socrates.umd.edu (John VanAntwerp) writes:
>>4.  They did not depart by air from Oshkosh.
>
>He said in his talk that they only briefly considered flying the BD-10 at
>Oshkosh because it was still so experimental.  He cited the problem they had
>when they flew the BD-5J at Oshkosh, only to have a flameout and land 300
>feet short of the runway.  He did not want a repeat of that kind of poor
>performance.

Actually, I thought that EAA had a strict policy of no flying during the
convention unless the required minimum (25 or 40) hours had been flown.
Obviously, Bede would have had to have his area of operations modified to
fly at OSH instead of at Mojave ...

Mike Pilla
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Philip Ryan)
Subject: Re: IFR/Semi-Auto Horror, Aerobatics, & maybe some other stuff
Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:07:18 GMT


In article <19920814.132639.414@almaden.ibm.com>, martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM writes:

> On to a new topic. How many aerobatic netters are there out there? In the
> last week, I have heard an Eagle and a S1S mentioned.
> 
> Martin Langhammer (Owner of many guns, but only one Pitts.)
> 

Well, ...

	 I'm not at all in the same league as someone who actually owns a Pitts,
(in fact I'm not even allowed to fly one (yet)) but I am becoming an aerobatic
netter. 

I've just started to get my PPL, learning in a Robin 2160, which is (quoting
straight from the manufacturers blurb) "a side by side two seat, low wing,
cantilever monoplane, powered by a 160HP engine driving a fixed pitch prop.
The cockpit is enclosed by a 'fighter' (?, bit of a wank) style bubble canopy
and the aircraft sits upon a tricycle undercarriage which has nose wheel
steering." I believe it's made in Canada.

It's fully aerobatic rated (at least in Australia) (which is partly why the
school purchased the type). The schools basic plan for a PPL is for you to end
up with a restricted private pilots license, with aerobatic and spin
endorsements.

So far it is GREAT. I can take off, loop (4G), roll (aileron), and land. 
I've flown in a few different small cessnas, and the difference is enormous.
Having a low wing and a full perspex canopy changes the environment enormously
-- you have excellent visibility, it's not at all stuffy or closed in, and you
feel nice and snug packed in there with the 5 point harness. It gets pretty
warm on sunny days I admit.

After a frustrating session practising smooth & clean flying, it puts a huge
grin on my face and a sparkle in my eyes being able to gain a bit of height
before nosing over into a decent dive (love that roller coaster feeling) to
enter a 4G loop then straight into a couple of aileron rolls!!  We're taught to
be extra specially careful at this point because it's easy to forget that there
is a great big ground below, and it's not always your friend.

Sorry if the above sounds like bragging, but I've only just started and I am
finding it to be fantastic.

There is a down side -- price! There are also some more upsides -- once you've mastered
the Robin there is a Siai Marchetti, and then a Pitts at the school. !!!!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phil Ryan.
pryan@rp.csiro.au

CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: spagiola@amy5.stanford.edu (Stefano P. Pagiola)
Subject: Re: MD88 ice detectors
Reply-To: spagiola@leland.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:16:39 GMT

Wolfgang Diestelkamp writes
> In article <1992Aug11.175317.3450@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>  
hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488) writes:
> 
> >        A friend of mine was recently flying as a passenger on an  
MD88.
> > He noticed a small (6 inch) lanyard in a yellow triangle placed  
closed to
> > the fuselage. He asked the aircrew what was the purpose of this  
device.
> > The response was that they were for ice detection. Does anyone  
know how
> > these devices work?
> 
> I asked a SAS crew about these on an MD83; they told me they were
> installed after that landing of an MD80 (remember, a landing is  
good
> whenever you succeed to climb out afterwards) about 20 miles from
> Stockholm Arlanda last December. If there's clear ice on the wing
> they stick when checked manually.

Finnair had these on their MD-87s as far back as late 1988 (maybe  
earlier, but that's when I flew on them).


--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@leland.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:24:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>The ages of the 5 persons aboard the aircraft ranged from 19 to 23, according
>to the local paper.

>Based on the ages, I'd say there were no children on board. Based on the
>pilot's (age 20) behavior, I'd have to question that....

The scuttlebutt on compuserve is that the pilot was a pre-solo
student.

-Ron
From: pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:17:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Vampire?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

 according to FAR 103.1, it's not an ultralight if it cruises at more than 
 55 kt, or weighs more than 254 # empty weight. So, it's an airplane, 
 and you need a recreational pilots liscence or better.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jes@downey.dev.macsch.com (John Schiermeier)
Subject: Re: Flying in to Long Beach to see the Spruce Goose (seeking information)
Organization: The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:30:07 GMT

In article <9208080008.AA02805@bodi.portal.com> karl@bodi.portal.com (Karl Kraft) writes:
>You wrote:
>>A few of us from our local flying club are planning on a going to LA
>>(Long Beach, LGB) to see the Spruce Goose on 8/15, before they move
>>it to Oregon.  Could someone experienced with this area email
>>me the following information about doing this?
>>
>
>This is the first I've heard of this.   How are they planning on moving it to Oregon?  Are  
>they going to fly it there?  Or something less dramatic?
>
>
>--
>Karl Kraft
>karl@bodi.portal.com  (NeXT mail)
>

They are dismantling it and shipping it.  The work has already
begun, but it will be open to the public until this fall, when
the last parts are shipped out.  (Not sure what there will be
for the public to see by then.)

John
From: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu (Steve Peltz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GLiding instruction
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:55:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt96C1.Go1
Organization: Computer Based Education Research Lab - University of Illinois

In article <18AUG199210200746@vxcrna.cern.ch> cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:
>until a few feet from the ground.  The pupil, then suddenly pulled out the
>air brakes, and let the speed decay.   The instructor tried to put the brakes
>back in, but the pupil froze on the controls and the instructor was unable
>to over-ride the locked out air brakes.

I keep my hand positioned to prevent the dive brake from being pulled further
than I think it should go. Regardless of the student freezing on the control,
you don't really have time to react to a student pulling them on suddenly
when you're that close to the ground.

Depending on air speed, you may still have plenty of available excess lift
despite the brakes being on; a reasonably quick increase in angle of attack
could still save such an occurance from being more than a somewhat heavy
landing; or was the student frozen on the stick as well?
-- 
Steve Peltz
Internet: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu	PLATO/NovaNET: peltz/s/cerl
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: BD-10 status
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:01:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.151227.8115@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg) writes:
>
>2.  They have 61 orders for aircraft kits thus far.
>
>They have a newsletter that I will now be getting and I'll post its
>contents on a regular basis.
>
So Matt, does this mean the natural follow-on to building an Eagle
is to build a pressurized supersonic jet?  Gonna opt for the taildragger
version? :-)

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:48:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> So what's so great  about Nut Tree (sic the airport)?

Thanks to all those that responded.  I get the idea.


--
 Mike Myshatyn    Bonanza N4896J           Hewlett-Packard Company
   ASEL/AMEL COMM, INSTR, CFI-IA           User-Interface Technology Division
 ...!hplabs!fc.hp.com!myshatyn             Ft. Collins, CO  80525
 or ... myshatyn@fc.hp.com                 (303) 229-4067
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Flight Bags
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:16:57 GMT

I got a good flight bag for 45 (us$). It will hold my head sets...a few
BIG BOOKS <AIM/California Pilots Guide/Cessna Manual> my sun glasses,
my E6B (computer and wiz wheel)....and that is only the inside compartment,
on the out side..there are pens, flashlights, light sticks, charts,
kneeboards, plotters, etc etc...plus i also..(forgot to add this)
room for emergency food and water...all about the size of a bowling
ball bag.
--
==============================  *  Marshal Perlman               * DO
=-> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu <-=  *  Huntington Beach, California  * NOT
==============================  *  (Surf City, U.S.A)            * EAT
If you are unable to read, call 1-800-LEARN-TO-READ...
From: melstien@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (michael.l.elstien)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flight Bags
Summary: Heaviest Bag Contest
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:32:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1992Aug12.173236.21703
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <3617.164.uupcb@ssr.com>, dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) writes:

> I should point out that I'm definitely a finalist in the "World's
> heaviest flight bag" contest.


    I weighed my flight bag last night, it only weighed 26 pounds.
    It feels like 50.

Michael Elstien
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,sdnet.followup
From: bwmohle@PacBell.COM (Bruce W. Mohler)
Subject: Re: Need Info on Miramar NAS Airshow
Organization: Pacific Bell, San Diego, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:55:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.211417.5512@fps.com> bruceh@fps.com (Bruce T. Hill) writes:
>All today I have been watching the Blue Angels practice outside my office.
>Wow!  They have been pretty low (well less than 1000'), fast and loud.
>
>Does anybody have the show schedule for this weekend's airshow?
>
>Anyone have any tips for a first time attendee with two small children?
>
>Saturday vs. Sunday?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- 
>Bruce T. Hill @ Cray Research Superservers, Inc., San Diego, CA, USA
>Email: bruceh@cray.com  Phone: (619) 625-3746  FAX: (619) 625-0641
>Humorous quotation:  Nobody looks good wearing _brown_lipstick_. --Frank Zappa

I've seen the other 2 follow-up articles to this thread and the only
other piece of advice that I'd offer is to locate the First-Aid station
because (at least last year) they were *giving* away some sort of ear
plugs to protect your ears.

My son and I (and Grandpa) are going tomorrow (we ran in the TopGun 10K
2 Saturdays ago -> free tickets to the Friday show!!!) and we're
taking sun screen (which we got free at the 10K), water, hats, and
(light aluminum) folding chairs.

Hope this helps!

Bruce

[I noticed Brian's comment about the "killing machines".  I'm going
 because they're up in the air (where I wish I was) not because I
 want to glorify war and killing.  And I thought that the only way
 that these planes could kill someone is by sucking them into the
 engine or falling on them.  Same plane, but all weapon systems
 removed.  Right?
 
 I believe that I basically agree with Brian and I'm glad I'm not
 in Yugoslavia right now.  So does Sam Donaldson's fellow reporter.]

B

-- 
Bruce W. Mohler  ><>                 | voice: 619-586-2218
System Administrator / COSMOS/March  | email: bwmohle@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Always leave things in better shape than you found them.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jeremy@cs.swarthmore.edu (Jeremy Brest)
Subject: Re: ATC communications (was Re: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:16:27 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
>>One of the issues I had to consider was non-standard
>>air traffic control phraseology (e.g. "leaving four point five for six").
>My primary instructor taught me that that was the _right_ way to say it, 

Well, that really is the point -- standard phraseology may not be "the
right way".  How often do you hear ATC deviate from standard
phraseology?  Fortunately, all the time.  In fact, when they _do_ use
the standard phraseology, it's called "Rulebook Slowdown" (though you
won't find this term defined in the AIM).  

You can't regulate communication into being efficient.

Jeremy
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: winterer@vxcrna.cern.ch (WINTERER,V.H./EP)
Subject: BERKUT info ?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: BERKUT
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:38:00 GMT

Does anybody have informations, experiences or hints about the BERKUT (from
Expermental Aviation)?
We're a group of three people flying in Freiburg, Germany. We got some
experience in the (complete) maintenace of our gliders other aircraft 
and in building rc models...

                               cheers,
                                       Volker

winterer@friedrich.physik.uni-freiburg.de (preferred) 
winterer@cernvm.cern.ch
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:50:49 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Aug20.184251.29939@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> gle@l42bb.jsc.nasa.gov (glenn ellis) writes:
>If it helps I'll tell you my real world story and the difference between 
>ARSA's  and TRSA's.  I won't try to listen to ATC and a baseball game on 
>the ADF when I'm in an ARSA but I will when in a TRSA.  "Stand by Beaumont 
>approach, Biggio's at the plate with the bases loaded."

Ah...someone else who flies around with their ADF tuned to 950.

What's scary is when Approach tells you that Biggio's sure to pop up...
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "Anything that an F-4 can outturn is not maneuverable." -- Mary Shafer
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Heard on the air (was: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:53:19 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <1992Aug13.182844.18285@walter.bellcore.com> venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh) writes:
>What might have
>been missing in that transmission is what the pilot was thinking (and doing):
>
>"Now where is that damn card...I am sure I had put it there...what is that
>behind the rudder pedal...that must be it...damn these yokes...there is no
>space to bend down...why can't they put me on an airbus..ok i think I got it.."
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BLASPHAMY!!!!!   :-)


-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539     rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com     PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler)
Subject: Re: Ropes and gliders
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 09:49:00 GMT

In article <zqlf4g9@Unify.Com>, raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes...
>In article <10AUG199217524496@vxcrna.cern.ch>, cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug10.085235.29582@bnr.co.uk>, gbb@bnr.co.uk (Geoff Brown) writes...
>> >In article <1992Aug08.175854.13474@i88.isc.com> rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller) writes:
>> >>
>> >>i have had 4 hangups in Schweizer gliders while using the large ring of
>> >>a Tost (out of maybe 300 tows). ...
>> > 
>> ...... seems to me that the basic design of the Schweizer
>> release leaves a lot to be desired.  ALL our gliders in our club, and that
>> includes all the private ones as well have the standard tost release, and
>> I have never witnessed or heard of a cable hangup of any kind, ...
> 
>	IMHO the Schweizer release is a sound design.  I could echo
>	your comment -- "I have never witnessed or heard of a cable
>	hangup of any kind" -- for the Schweizer release, with a provision

BTW there exists another kind of ring also.. the Slingsby ring !!  This is
much like a tost ring but although the ring is the same diameter it is
slightly thinne cross section.... not usually a problem, but if you have
a tost release where the clearance between the "beak" of the release and
the ring is marginal, and you are used to using Slinsgby rings, then it
is possible to have an early backrelease if you take the aircraft to a site
where tost rings are exclusively used...... This I discovered two week back
when I took our aircraft to a different site.  The solution was to file the
aft side of the "beak" about 1 or 2 mm, so that the tost ring was a slightly
more free fit in the machanism... made the difference of going off on 
backrelease at 1100 feet on the winch, to getting a 1600 foot launch once
the mode was done !
Mike

==============================================================
|                                                            |
|        Mike Cohler -  preferred email address:             |
|                       MDC1@VAXA.YORK.AC.UK                 |
|                   ie  MDC1%VAXA.YORK.AC.UK@UKACRL.BITNET   |
|                                                            |
|        UK PPL and Glider Pilot                             |
|                                                            |
==============================================================
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:33:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Dip Gauges
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:

>>So, the error at the low end of the scale was in the range of 7 to 8
>>gallons per side, or more than an hour's worth of fuel. 

 >   Sigh.  I only wish that 7-8 gallons was more than an hour's worth of
 >   fuel in a 182. 


 Er, he said 7 to 8 *per side*! That's 14 - 16 gallons or about an hour's
 fuel in a 182!

 ..glen
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: War story and story request
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:16:47 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <647@swamps.UUCP> val@swamps.UUCP (Val Christian) writes:
!In article <1992Aug9.235116.1334@peck.com! geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
!!...
!!Well, in some 3200 or so hours of flying, I've had exactly _one_ such bona
!!fide engine failure.  It was a partial failure, where the engine in a Warrior
!!						Geoff
!
!In 2300 or so hours, I have experience two engine failures in single engine
!aircraft.  The first was a camshaft failure at 350 AGL on a windy October
!day.  I had a fresh PP ticket, just completed an aerobatic course, and had
!less than 150 hours to my name.  Did the "impossible turn" and landed 
!with a crowd of witnesses.  With a 2200 x 20 foot runway, I was proud of
!landing on the asphalt... 

Anyone else done the possible `impossible' turn? I'm collecting
data.

Val, did you report this to the FAA, i.e., how valid are all the
data bases that people use to `prove' that the `impossible'
turn is the wrong thing to do.

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation