HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: firebird@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (larry rosen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR at INDY??
Keywords: NASCAR INDY
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:30:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug11.000002.13956@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug10.204443.25955@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
> jbright@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.k.bright) writes:
> |>
> |>Does anyone out there have a problem with Tony George bringing NASCAR to
> |>Indy?  With all due respect to the NASCAR drivers/fans, I sure as heck do!
> |>Does anyone care?  Does anyone care but feel helpless to stop it?
> |>Based on the number of NASCAR articles, am I going to be flamed for even
> |>bringing it up and being against it?
> 
> I don't have any problem with your objections to having NASCAR race at IMS.
> However, I would be interested in hearing what they are.  Given that the
> track sits idle most of the year, I personally can't see anything wrong with
> letting the GOBs race there one weekend.  The Indy 500 has enough prestige
> and following on its own that a GOB race stealing fans from the IndyCars
> shouldn't be a problem.  Particularly if the races are scheduled far enough
> apart.
> 
> It would also be interesting to see how the IndyCars would fare at Daytona.
> 
> --PSW

Well, one good reason I can think of not to race NACSAR at Indy is that 
the track wasn't designed for it.  In order to let NASCAR race there, IMS
would have to modify the track in order to do so.  One of these modifications
would be to raise the height of the wall.  This would effectively wipe 
out many of the best seats in the house (the ones close up to the wall)
all the way around.  How do you fairly reallocate the seats which some
fans have had for generations?  I for one wouldn't be to happy to loose 
a good spot to watch the race from just to see another race there or 
to put extra cash in Georges' pocket.  Ticket prices have already 
gone up faster than inflation.
From: tim@mimas.cc.deakin.OZ.AU (Tim Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Schumacher's wing (was Re: Hungarian GP)
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:27:27 GMT
Organization: C&CS, Deakin University

In article <bvandepe.714093885@adelphi>,
bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Ivan E. Rection) writes:
> welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
> 
> 
> >for my money, the best part of the race was berger/schumacher/brundel/
> >hakkinen, complete with the brief interlude with nigel.  nice of the
> >broadcasters to pick up on _why_ michael schumacher's rear wing decided
> >to part ways with him.
> 
> >i wonder if there were fisticuffs in the beneton pits later?
> 
> Could you elaborate on this please? The BBC coverage seemed to imply that
> Schumacher had previously been rear-ended and had his wing damaged. Was
> something said on ESPN (or whatever) to suggest otherwise?


Yes, Schumacher had been hit from the rear, by his own team-mate,
Brundle.  That is why their might have been an incident in the
Benetton pits after the race.

Are you sure you watched the BBC coverage?  Or did you see their
edited version which did not include Jonathan Palmer interviewing
Schumacher (and perhaps footage of the contact)?  Schumacher quite
calmly explained that Berger had blocked him going into a corner,
forcing him to brake and swerve sharply, leaving not enough room for
Brundle to brake himself.

I think the blame can be shared between the three of them, but I'm
sure neither of the Benetton drivers blame each other.
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 tires and teams
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:53:28 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <9223117.26349@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> neoh@ee.mu.OZ.AU (cheow hee neoh) writes:
> i. How does a tire get blistered? And, can a tire return to its 'unblistered'
>    state if the driver takes it easy for the next few laps??
Same way your skin does - it gets too hot.  But there is also: flat-
spotting, due to locking up and sliding the tire a bit, and: picking up crap 
from the outfield (or just from off-the-racing-line).
If the blisters aren't too bad, they effectively wear away; flatspotted 
tires will slowly wear round again; crap is jettisoned reasonably quickly.

>ii. Is a team allowed to field more than two cars on the grid on 
raceday??
No.  also note Andrea Moda are in trouble for making only token effort with 
their 2nd car.

>What do you all think of Senna's rearward facing on-board camera in Hungary??
Crap.

>Do all the other teams not having an on board camera have to carry some sort of
>a ballast to compensate for the weight??
Anybody know what they weigh?  The subbuteo football final cameras were so 
tiny they must have been about 50gm

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|           It all depends on the size of your ham sandwich           |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McLaren's newfound speed
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:08:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92232.090801JFS10
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Aug18.231751.16694@syacus.acus.oz.au>, roberts@syacus.acus.oz.au
(Robert Salier) says:

>>No, Senna DID have more speed.  He pretty well dogged it around the rest
>>of the course and focussed everything on getting a super launch out of
>>the last turn.  Naturally, he carried those extra revs (plus driving
>>down the dirty side of the course whenever Nige was at all close) to
>>hold his lead.  That was the whole contest between Mansell and Senna
>>yesterday: who can get the best launch out of that turn.  The result was
>>a draw which left the leader in front.

>Here's another theory:

>I wouldn't put it past Honda/McLaren to give Berger and Senna unequal
>cars, but perhaps Senna was running less wing.  On a circuit where the
>only real passing opportunity is at the end of the main straight, this
>may well have made good sense.  Senna would trade a little grip in the
>turns where Mansell would find it hard to get past anyway.

>It wouldn't surprise me if the jungle-juice regs made a difference too.
>I think we are close to the end of the Renault dominance - if Honda
>remain in F1.
I think the fuel helped to equalize things for this race. I think that
the new fuel regulations made the horsepower differences less drastic.
It will be interesting to see how the Fords do at Monza. This should
be a race that Williams and McLaren dominate, but will the Ferrari
and Ilmor engined car threaten them?

I don't think Mansell really wanted to get around Senna. He was won't
the championship more than a win. We saw Patrese run away from everybody
so if Patrese had a car that was equal to Mansells Mansell should have
been able to pull away as well.

Jonathan Swaby

>Robert
From: chip@tr.UUCP (chip ragan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Minor Formulae
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:45:53 GMT

From article <713729491.19472@minster.york.ac.uk>, by pete@minster.york.ac.uk:

> Formula Ford 1600	(worldwide, current)
> 
> 	1600cc Ford engine (~110bhp), 4-speed box, standard road tyres 
> 	and wheels.  Single-seater space frame cars. 
> 
> 	For 1996 the new 1800cc Zeta engine is to be used in the major FF
> 	championships, this will gradually filter down to the minor FF
> 	championships as used Zeta-engined cars become available.
> 
> 	The world's finest training ground for racing drivers.

In the states, this class is rather moribund.  If you don't own a Swift
chassis, you really aren't in the game, and Swift no longer builds formula
fords due to lack of demand.  Also, slicks are used instead of road tires.

There is a 'B' division for old formula fords that have outboard suspensions
that is popular in regional racing.  Usually called Spec Ford or Club Ford.

One of the reasons for Formula Fords decline is FF2000.  There are currently
several pro series for them, and they have similar costs of operations.  Pretty
much a Swift class, also.

Chip
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jrs@cbnews.cb.att.com (jeff.sherota)
Subject: Re: Rahal Rumor
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:34:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.130542.13402@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug12.015751.15184@newsance.att.com> rcpilz@newsance.att.com (Robert C. Pilz;660-4694;TTCOM03) writes:
>>I don't think Bobby Rahal will be buying Truesport. He already is part
>>owner of his current racing team Patrick Racing. 
>
>Well here in Columbus where Rahal lives a local tv station reported that
>reports are that Rahal may be looking at taking over Truesports.

More news from Columbus, they just announced on the news that there will
be a news conference tomorrow morning (Friday the 14th) at Truesports.
No details about what they are going to announce, but Barbara Trueman and 
Bobby Rahal will be present ... hmmmmmm.

				Jeff Sherota
				jrs@cblpe.att.com


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: hodges@Breakaway.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Hodges)
Subject: Re: IndyCar tires
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: Stanford Networking Systems
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:11:18 GMT


> What are the front and rear widths of the tires used in IndyCar racing?

Good question; don't know. And if anyone knows what is currently used in F1 (and what will be mandated next year), that'd be interesting for comparison. Currently, F1 tires are wider than IndyCar (according to Roberto Moreno who I had a chance to chat with in the pits at Laguna last fall). 

> Is the same tire grading system used in Indycar as it is in F1? (A, B, C)

Nope. All IndyCar teams are supplied by Goodyear (at least this was the case last fall), and Goodyear picks the compound (I didn't find out the compound grading system that's used), and hands out the same compound to everyone. They just keep track of who uses how many. I don't know whether the Goodyear folk will pick a given compound for the entire weekend, or do it per day or per session. Anyone know? 


Jeff
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Minor Formulae
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:18:32 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <9@tr.UUCP> chip@tr.UUCP (chip ragan) writes:
>From article <713729491.19472@minster.york.ac.uk>, by pete@minster.york.ac.uk:
>
>> Formula Ford 1600	(worldwide, current)
>> 
>> 	1600cc Ford engine (~110bhp), 4-speed box, standard road tyres 
>> 	and wheels.  Single-seater space frame cars. 
>> 
>> 	For 1996 the new 1800cc Zeta engine is to be used in the major FF
>> 	championships, this will gradually filter down to the minor FF
>> 	championships as used Zeta-engined cars become available.
>> 
>> 	The world's finest training ground for racing drivers.
>
>In the states, this class is rather moribund.  If you don't own a Swift
>chassis, you really aren't in the game, and Swift no longer builds formula
>fords due to lack of demand.  

They still make them for the UK series.  The SC92 is leading the championship
at the moment.  What is the connection between Swift in the UK and US ?

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:51:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Mansell and Prost
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

This is not the first incident with Brundle.  With his butt on the line for
next season he is doing all he can to make sure he does well - including
the incidents we've seen involving him and his teammate.  If Brundle had not
had his cars nose up Schumacher's tailpipe going into the corner this would
not have happened.

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Speeds at Le Mans, Rondeau, Rondel (was: Mazdas @ Bonneville)
Date: 15 Aug 92 10:41:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <183085@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com
(Dan Jones) writes:
|> And what was the fastest speed ever turned at LeMans?  I'm thinking that a 
|> Rondel (sp?) got into the low 250's at one point.

I think this is correct. However, as far as I remember, the car was
called a Rondeau (pronounced something like Rondoh, with the "on"
actually a singly nasal "o").  I believe they used Ford-Cosworth
DFV V8 powerplants.  

What I find interesting is that there was a Formula-2 team called Rondel
in the early 1970ies.  They first fielded Brabham BT38s with drivers like
Bob Wollek and Tim Schenken.  Later, they designed their own F2 chassis.
I vaguely recall that they were even thinking of entering F1, but I don't
remember what came out of it.  Also, I keep wondering if there wasn't
a certain Ron Dennis behind the whole thing?
  
-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com


In article <1992Aug19.122353.19392@cm.cf.ac.uk>,
Robert.Hartill@cm.cf.ac.uk (Hmmm) writes:

|> I like the on board camera shots. I particularly liked the 
|> shot of Mansell taking Berger on the straight in Hungury.
|> 

	Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the on board camera shots. I just don't
	understand why we don't see more of them, especially after all
	the trouble and expense they went to to install them.


	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:07:09 GMT
Organization: Bridge Information Systems

In article <1992Aug20.015631.8313@dracut.keps.kodak.com> rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts) writes:
>In article <1144@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
>> Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
>> is not on this list. 
>How do you think Lotus got started? While I don't believe Chapman ever
>drove (in a race ) any of his F1 cars, he certainly drove his early
>trials cars, and I believe Lotus XI. 

It near ceases to amaze me how many people will jump on a minor fluff
like this. There's been, what, three or four followups like this. 
The original post specifically asked about F1, so, NO, COLIN CHAPMAN
NEVER DROVE ANY CARS OF HIS OWN CONSTRUCTION AS FAR AS THE REPLY WAS
CONCERNED SINCE IT WAS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT F1 ONLY. geez. You guys 
ever heard of mail? :-)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
james montebello (james@bridge.com)         'my employer has no opinions'		
"If we don't succeed, then we run the risk of failure." -Dan Quayle 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: freewill@carson.u.washington.edu (William Kaufman)
Subject: F1 Tracks for Passing
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:54:27 GMT




Anyone wondering what an F1 race would have been like on the Cleveland
airport track? It seems that is more like the kind of track that these
guys need to pass. Or the Daytona road course, where you have the 
dicotomy of blazing high speed banked turns alternating with tight
little infield corners. I bet that would be tough on a driver. Maybe
the McLarens would do even better, because of all the straights allowing
them to stay ahead by virtue of speed.  freewill
From: boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McLaren's newfound speed
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:01:35 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.231751.16694@syacus.acus.oz.au>, 
>roberts@syacus.acus.oz.au (Robert Salier) says:

>>It wouldn't surprise me if the jungle-juice regs made a difference too.
>>I think we are close to the end of the Renault dominance - if Honda
>>remain in F1.
>I think the fuel helped to equalize things for this race. I think that
>the new fuel regulations made the horsepower differences less drastic.
>It will be interesting to see how the Fords do at Monza. This should
>be a race that Williams and McLaren dominate, but will the Ferrari
>and Ilmor engined car threaten them?

I find that hard to believe, what with Patrese running away unchallenged
with the lead at an incredible rate (wasn't it something like 1sec/lap in
the early laps?) I tend to think that the real equaliser was the circuit
configuration, plain and simple.
 
toufic
            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez@cesl.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University, NJ
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Minor Formulae
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:14:06 GMT
Reply-To: pete@minster.york.ac.uk (Pete Fenelon)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

In article <713729491.19472@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@minster.york.ac.uk (Pete Fenelon) writes:
>	For 1996 the new 1800cc Zeta engine is to be used in the major FF

	1993. Blast this keypad.

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: hale@ares.tcom.stc.co.uk (Dave Hale x5501)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: New group
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:58:58 GMT
Reply-To: hale%mother@tcom.stc.co.uk (Dave Hale)
Organization: bnr


I would like to see a group for general car and driving enthusiasts.
Somewhere where one can talk about a certain car they drive or ask others about
a car they want to buy etc.
Also I would be interested in a group about modified road cars
as I have a modified Mini and would like to descuss this subject with others.

Any thoughts?
From: conrad@pico.OZ (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Prost
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:54:11 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

chan_r@wdi.COM (Robin Chan x2508) writes:
: 
:   I am both a Mansell and a Prost fan.  I like Mansell because he's always
:   exciting to watch.  I like Prost because he's smart.
: 
:   But if they're going to be teammates next year, I think one shouldn't count
[ deltee, delete]

According to James & Murray (during the Hungarian GP)  Mansell has
demanded $23M from Williams.  Senna apparently said (to Murray I think)
that he will drive for nothing.  He _really_ wants a Williams seat.
Prost has publiclly said he doesn't mind who he drives with, but the
rumour is that, in private, he's fighting tooth & nail to keep Senna
out.  Which is understandable.   Another rumour connectes Senna and
Ferrari.

Maybe we'll see a Prost/Patrese Williams team? 

Oh, by the way, Senna won after Patrese blew it (and his motor).
Mansell used his brain, came second & won the championship (30 odd
seconds in arrears).  Berger used the Honda's power to keep out the
faster cars of Hakinann & Brundle.  Schumacher had been in that
battle but his rear wind exitted stage-left halfway down the main
straight after a shunt from Brundle.

(Sorry about the spelling)

Conrad Drake
---
"There's something stirring in my loins and it isn't the spirit of Jesus"
                - Helen Razor, JJJ announcer, 1992.

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604
From: rsm@doe.carleton.ca (Raul San Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:14:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: sybok.rsm.714320082
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University

In <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
>the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.
>What do you say?

Yes! Please proceed.

rsm.
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IndyCar tires
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 13:59:23 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:

> The cost per set averages
> $1000 and a team may use 28-44 tires per weekend, depending on the
> track.

The sign outside the Goodyear garage at Indy said front tires $250 each
and rear tires $352 (or maybe it was $351) each.

dan

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
         NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh 

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:56:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.181514.15491@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty) writes:
>
>Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
>Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
>a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
>how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
>demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?
>
I don't count myself as an expert on OMS history, but I grew up about
6 miles from the track. The first big race was the California 500 in
1970. The track never made enough money to pay off its debts - and I
believe that bad management had a part in that along with too few 
spectators/too few events. I remember that it was busy every weekend
with SOMETHING, swap meets, rock festivals, races, sand drags, etc.

The property was bought by Chevron land development in 1980 or 1981.
They promised continued racing, but announced the closing of the track
the day they got the title (I didn't buy their gas for YEARS afterward).

The track has now been totally demolished. In its place is a
shopping/hotel complex, several tracts of identical homes, and, I
think, a golf course.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 11:52:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.035251.12027@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>I think that the F1 clan deserves its own sandbox and I am willing to
>facilitate this (boy am I going to regret this).

The F1 clan also follows many other racing series too!
(I also follow IMSA Camel GT series and CART PPG Indycar World Series myself)
(Why "Indycar world series"? It certainly is not "world". What nonsense.)

Those who want to discuss the other series are most welcome to post.
Just because lately there has been a preponderance of F1 posts does not
in any way imply enthusiasts of other racing series are not invited to post.