HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rcano@bnr.ca (Bob Cano)
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!
Reply-To: rcano@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:46:04 GMT

In article <wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
|> Peter Gogolek refers to the head of state of this country as "foreign".
|> 
|> I would likle to ask and for net Canadians to consider the following:
|> 
|>   Aren't you from a foreign ancestory?
|> 
|> This is something the USers fail to see.  North America was inhabited by
|> Aboriginals before the arrival of the Europeans!!
|> 
|> Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.
|> 

No, I am not a foreigner, I am a Canadian. My ancestry has nothing to
do with it. I live here, I take part in Canadian society, I recognize
and take pride in things which are Canadian. 

I sometimes think that the best thing which could ever happen to the
world would be an amnesia epidemic. Let's stop worrying about what
slight someone commited in the past, and work towards building a
society for the future with equal opportunity and rights for all. Let's
share our cultures and hopes, instead of fighting over them.

-- 
Bob Cano           Bell-Northern Research    | When all else fails,   
rcano@.bnr.ca      P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C     | read the instructions.
                   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada   | 
(613)763 4086      K1Y 4H7                   |   
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: mhsvieru@cayley.uwaterloo.ca ()
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:45:30 GMT

In article <4XuBPB1w164w@ham.almanac.bc.ca>, emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca writes:
> richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin) writes:
> 
> What IS avoidable is giving 
> someone a role in the governing of millions of people because they happen 
> to be descended from an ancient line of fuedal European robber-barons.
> 
> 
> emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca (Robert Smits Ladysmith BC)

The Queen does not govern, rule or command.  She merely reigns.

Not directly related to Robert's posting but:

I have been disturbed by how many people seem to think that only individuals
of British descent approve of the monarchy -- that is simply not the case.

I myself am born of immigrant parents and have no connection to the U.K.
That does not however, impair my ability or desire to remain loyal to 
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada.  In fact I know many
loyal non-British-ancestry people (whew, what a mouthful), including
native people and French-Canadians.

Martin Vierula
From: "stephanie fysh" <stephanie.fysh@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: re. a proposal
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:26:25 EST
Reply-To: "stephanie fysh" <stephanie.fysh@canrem.com>
Distribution: can
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Peter Deutsch writes:
PD>Fortunately, I can help...

PD>In the spirit of compromise and can-do spirit that has made Canada what it
PD>is today, I willingly offer the services of my family as the new Canadian
PD>Royal House. Our qualifications are impeccable, we are available to start
PD>immediately, and we're reasonably priced. What more could you want?

[all the rest deleted]

OK, so we've got *two* candidates, now.  Care to outline *your* family's
qualifications, Rheal?  :)

- Stephanie.
---
  SLMR 2.1a  "Things are only impossible until they're not" - Picard
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 18:53:03 EDT
From: Peter Gogolek <GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: god save your queen
Distribution: can
 <1992Aug9.085048.7533@uunet.ca> <12568@grayt>

In article <12568@grayt>, grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) says:
>
>In article <1992Aug9.085048.7533@uunet.ca> smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>:
>:  [all sorts of interesting precedents on the action or inaction
>:   of the British monarch in Canada deleted]
>
>The monarch is bound by the advice of her Canadian ministers who
>are responsible only to the Canadian electorate.
>

Tom, do you envisage any active role for the monarch or is she
completely passive, a puppet of the Canadian government of the
day?

Peter Gogolek
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
From: riese@litsun.epfl.ch (Marc Riese)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The tentative agreement of August 19th
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:35:49 GMT


Thomas Hood writes:
>The first ministers' agreement-in-principle of August 19th
>...
>narrowly-defined version of the distinct-society clause.

Pour ceux entre nous qui sont loin des nouvelles canadiennes,
quelle est le contenu exacte de cette proposition ?
Comment se compare-t-elle a la proposition de Meech ?
Bien entendu, une reponse "objective et informative" serait preferable :-)


For those of us far from canadian news sources,
what exactly does this clause say?
How does it compare to Meech?
Of course, an "objective and informative" response would be preferable :-)


Marc Riese
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
Suisse
From: charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: NAFTA
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:40:04 GMT
Distribution: can

sitomlin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Stephen I. Tomlinson) writes:

>The assertion that we need protection from cheaper labour is being made
>in the media again.  But the evidence is so stacked against this notion 
>that economists dismiss the assertion as a fallacy:

>Excerpted from _Macroeconomics_, 7th ed 1991, Lipsey, Purvis, Steiner, p. 427:
>"Fallacious Protectionist Arguments:

Introductory economics texts are to economic reality what first ministers'
constitutional conferences are to democracy.

And they're as comprehensible as Michael Wilson's pronouncements on NAFTA.

CvD
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:19:39 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <CLAMEN.92Aug12212036@BYRON.CS.CMU.EDU> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>
>Although allocation of radio spectrum is currently an exclusively
>federal power, that might be changed soon.  In any case, there is
>probably nothing unconstitional with Manitoba setting up
>provincially-subsidized German and Ukrainian radio networks.  Quebec
>and Ontario, for instance, have provincially funded French language
>networks.
>--
>Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
>School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
>Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
>5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
>Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA

[1] There is no relation between having a provincial radio or TV subsidized
network and the power to enact rules or to choose who will get the
authorization to broadcast.
[2] What are these Quebec and Ontario RADIO networks?  Except Radio-Quebec
(despite the name, it is a TV network) and TV Ontario (2 networks),
I don't know any provincially funded RADIO network!

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: tech@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Richard Loken)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:16:25 GMT

hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:

>> 800 CJAC  A  Clear channel

>It must have some trouble getting through the powerful CKLW station 
>in Detroit/Windsor at frequency 800. 

The medium wave broadcast rules are controlled by an agreement between
Canada, the USA, and Cuba (but not Mexico) and that agreement legislated
certain things like a Maximum transmitter output of 50KW and that some 
channels are clear channels, some are regional channels, and some are
local channels (the graveyard).  The clear channel designation has been gone
for at least ten years now and 800 KHz was never a clear channel anyway.

>But having Federally funded French language stations in cities like 
>Winnipeg or Edmonton is one of my major complaints about Canada.
>The Ukrainian Canadian and German Canadian populations in Winnipeg
>or Edmonton (more generally in Manitoba or Alberta) are far larger
>than the French population. But tax dollars from ALL Canadians are
>used to fund French language stations. Where is the Federal funding
>for Ukrainian language stations? Or German language stations? 

Cry me a river.  French and English are official languages, Ukranian and
German are not.  The various levels of government spend much too much money
funding every homesick ethnic splinter in existance already.  We need federally
funded ethnic radio stations like we need small pox.

You want to listen to German broadcasting then YOU can pay for it.  And no, I am
not English or French but my forefathers came here to be Canadian not whatever
it was that they were before they got here.  If the home country was so great 
they would have stayed there.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV                             : "ISDN (acronym)
  Athabasca University, Athabasca, Alberta Canada  : Innovations 
  tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA                            : Subscribers Don't Need."
  {atha|aunro}!cs.athabascau.ca!tech               : - some sorehead or other
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: The tentative agreement of August 19th
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:15:13 GMT

In article <14457@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>Gerald Olchowy is more relaxed than I am about the representation proposed in
>this new deal.
>

I don't think I'm that relaxed...I'm ready to lynch Getty and Harcourt.

>If the new Commons is to have 337 seats, then on average each seat should
>represent 81,110 Canadians (not all of whom are old enough to vote). On that
>basis, some provinces emerge with much more proportional clout; in effect, some
>of us will be more equal than others.
>
>For example, Quebec ought to get 85 MPs; instead it will get 93, making 9
>Quebecers the equivalent of 10 ordinary Canadians. Ontario will get 117 when it
>ought to send 124 MPs to Ottawa.
>
>Alberta comes up 5 MPs short, with 26 when it ought to have 31. BC is down 4 at
>36 when it deserves 40.
>
>Quebec and Ontario get more MPs than they deserve. So do Saskatchewan (gets 14,
>deserves 12) and Manitoba (gets 14, deserves 13). New Brunswick gets one more
>MP than it deserves, and PEI gets 2.4 more than the .6 of an MP its numbers
>warrant. Yukon and NWT between them should have one MP; the former gets one and
>the latter gets two. Only Nova Scotia and Newfoundland get the MPs their
>population ought to receive. Everyone else is either under-represented or
>over-represented.
>

One has to just accept the overrepresentation of the small provinces as
an artifact of history...it really is just a small perturbation which
will decrease over time...the problem is what is going to happen to
BC and Alberta vs Central Canada, and this deal guarentees the far West
will perpetually be underrepresented compared to Central Canada.

>As a Canadian I am prepared to pay more in all kinds of ways to ensure I have
>my own country. I don't think I'm prepared to be 90% of a Nova Scotian, and
>much less of a Quebecer or Ontarian.

We could have probably gotten as effective a Senate as this current equal
one by guarenteeing Quebec 20% of an equitable Senate.  Now that we have
offered Quebec 25% of the Commons or of the whole shebang forever, to 
get out of this deal, we may have no choice but to offer Quebec
25% of the Senate, and morely likely 33% to 50% of a Senate to
get back representation by population in the Commons.  Getty and
Harcourt have commited treasonous offenses, surrendering our democratic
rights for trifles.

Abolition of the Senate may be the only other way to get back 
representation by population now...and may be the most attractive
option now.

Gerald
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: god save your queen
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:50:37 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <92226.185304GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Peter Gogolek) writes:
>In article <12568@grayt>, grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) says:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug9.085048.7533@uunet.ca> smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>>:
>>:  [all sorts of interesting precedents on the action or inaction
>>:   of the British monarch in Canada deleted]
>>
>>The monarch is bound by the advice of her Canadian ministers who
>>are responsible only to the Canadian electorate.
>>
>
>Tom, do you envisage any active role for the monarch or is she
>completely passive, a puppet of the Canadian government of the
>day?

The Queen as monarch is the embodiment of the sovereign power of the
Canadian people. The power of the Canadian state is is vested in her
and expresses through her actions. The selections of the policies for
the expression of the Canadian will are made through Parliament and
conveyed to the Queen by her ministers. She has the right to express
these policies by the sovereign power of the Canadian people.

Less poetically, this arrangement separates the sovereign power of
Canada from the policies of the government of the day. The government
only conveys the wishes of the Canadian people to the entity which
will express this as their sovereign power.

The Queen is not the puppet of the government of the day, she is the
embodiment of the power of the Canadian people and her role represent
the subservience of the government to the people.


-- 
i.sinature
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: How about this - Denis!?
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:57:40 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

I would like to see the reaction of one of the frequent posters to this
board to this. You keep saying that the French culture within Canada
was persecuted by Anglo dominators. These historical incidents are
evidence that this was not so.

So how about it - Denis - amy comments or do you agree that the
French Canadian politicians of the XIXth century were influenential
in shaping the government of Canada as a protector for the Frecnh
culure?

In article <12604@grayt> grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
}
}This was the point of the rebellions of 1837-38. It was the desire of the
}residents of Canada to be reflected within their local government.
}To discount this in favour of some idea of British manipulation is
}to discount the direction of Canadian history.
}
}The British ministries did wish to govern Canada according to British interests.
}However the ministries which followed Durham's report would not have it.
}The British wished to appoint councils to further their own interests.
}The Canadian politicians insisted that these ministries have the
}confidence of the legislature.
}
}As a particular example, the British govenor Sydenham attempted to
}exclude French Canadians from the legisaltive council (cabinet).
}This was unacceptable to Canadians and Frech reformeers entered the
}council. Durham (and the British) attempted to exclude the French
}Canadian people from their government. Canadians as a whole would not
}accept this and forced the British to concede on this and to concede on
}responsible government.
}


-- 
i.sinature
Xref: sparky can.politics:6021 soc.culture.canada:5874
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 11:30:21 EDT
From: Peter Gogolek <GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!

In article <wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
(Dave Shariff Yadallee) says:
>
>Peter Gogolek refers to the head of state of this country as "foreign".
>
>I would likle to ask and for net Canadians to consider the following:
>
>  Aren't you from a foreign ancestory?
>
>This is something the USers fail to see.  North America was inhabited by
>Aboriginals before the arrival of the Europeans!!
>
>Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.
>

With few exceptions, a Canadian is one who was either born in
Canada, born elsewhere of Canadian parents, or has resided in
Canada for an extended period of time.  Elizabeth is not a
Canadian.  Based on residency and birth, the Queen Beatrix
of the Netherlands has more right to be called Canadian than
Elizabeth.

The British monarch has no desire to be a resident of Canada.  The
British monarch has claims to sovereignty over Canada only as a vestige
of the colonial status.

But even granting the fallacious statement that only the aboriginals
are not foreign, the Canadian monarch should then be an aboriginal not
an absentee Britisher.

Peter Gogolek
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: Criticizing "My Canada includes Quebec"
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:08:32 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.003810.23068@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>
pierre@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Pierre Rouleau) writes
>
>SAY WHAT ! ?  none of you guys are qualifed for this;
>who do you think you are ?  The idea is to replace
>Q. E-II by another QUEEN ...
>                   ^^^^^
>I propose Mitsou.

I think Pierre is on to something here!  I'd take Mitsou
over Q. E-II any day (or night :-).  Her preoccupation with
cowboys would go ever very well in the West and as an Ontarian,

I would be proud to have her head and tail stamped on Canadian
coins!  :-)

Edgar
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Access to French schools in CHQ etc.
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Aug17.123937.3161@spxtech.qc.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:58:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug17.123937.3161@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:

   > Interesting numbers.  Thank you very much.  Could you please explain
   > to us the difference between the values in columns (b) and (e)? 

      I am back at my office so I don't have the reference to hand but
      I am pretty sure that (b) is number of students actually enrolled
     (in minority language programs) and (e) is number of students who
      are legally entitled to access to minority programs (where numbers
      warrant, notwithstanding ?).

Oops.  I meant columns (c) and (e).

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Xref: sparky can.politics:6019 soc.culture.canada:5873
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: History of North America Re: REpublicanisn vs. Monarchists (Was Re: Beauregard vs. Yadallee)
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:40:27 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug17.115351.2264@meadow.uucp> marc@meadow.UUCP (Marc Riehm) writes:
}In article <c291042.713652613@gsb015> c291042@cs.UAlberta.CA (David Yadallee) writes:
}>smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
}>
}>>Dave, you didn't even get your Canadian history straight.  You
}>>attributed the liberal policies of British rule in Quebec to Lord
}>>Durham, who visited in 1839, when in fact these policies were granted
}>>under the Quebec Act of 1774.  Your posts are filled with egregious
}>>errors like this; it just doesn't seem worth it to point them all out.
}>
}>Let's put it this way then.  Canada is more open and more friendly than the USA is
}>anyday.  Case and point, your articles.
}
}So on the basis of one article by one person you say that the U.S. is "less
}friendly" than Canada.  If Steven Smith reasoned in a similar manner, then
}from your postings he would be forced to assume that Canada is a country full
}of morons.  By the way, Dave, the expression is 'case in point', not 'case
}and point'.
}
}Dave: throughout the rest of the article you responded to Steven Smith's
}ridicule without even recognizing it as such.  Why don't you ever learn to
}think a little before posting?

Steven Smith did ridicule the presentation of D. Yadallee for both style
and content. Smith in doing so made an outrageous mistake in using the
word "disingenuous" to mean something like "preposterous" or some other
meaning that is not usually given to the word. Smith also made some outrageous
assertions about Canadian history (ie Canada was created to serve some
British purpose).

Thus Smith while criticizing Yadalle for errors in presentation and
content made his own errors in presentation and *extremely* outrageous
errors in content which displayed a fundamental lack of understanding
of Canadian history. Smith also did this in a extremely patronising
and supercillious manner.

Perhaps this net should be concerned with the content of the articles
posted here rather than some arbitrary concept of acceptable style.



-- 
i.sinature
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:08:23 GMT
	<1992Aug17.083238.27402@spxtech.qc.ca>
	<1992Aug17.174437.5029@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> <400@catnix.UUCP>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

>>>>> On 19 Aug 92 05:21:43 GMT, michele@catnix.UUCP (Michele Simond) said:
  > Organizarion: Rhinoceros, chargez!

  > ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
  > >
  > > Great!  So "F*CK THE LANGUAGE LAWS" signs are legal...  Hm.
  > >
  > > Denis, I leave it to you to come up with a French language translation...

  > Bon.  Je ne m'appelle ni Denis ni Denise, mais comme la traduction
  > c'est mon domaine .. :-)

  > 	MERDE AUX LOIS SUR LA LANGUE

Curieux! Moi j'aurais plutot fait la traduction suivante:

	"F*ck les lois sur la langue" :-)

  > PS:  Mais surtout :

  > 	Merde a` tous ceux qui nous empe^chent de vivre en paix
  > 	et en harmonie, a` commencer par nous-me^mes.

T'aurais du etre philosophe. Cote traduction ca laisse a
desirer :-)
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
From: charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:30:20 GMT

beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>[2] What are these Quebec and Ontario RADIO networks?  Except Radio-Quebec
>(despite the name, it is a TV network) and TV Ontario (2 networks),
>I don't know any provincially funded RADIO network!

Alberta'a ACCESS radio network - 580 AM throughout the province, and some
12 local FM transmitters.

A dynamite radio service, by the way!

CvD
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada