HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about Shocks?
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:32:50 GMT

In article <uznerk.717786280@mcl> uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) writes:
> I know someone else who has an identical car to mine
>and he bought Bilstein shocks for it.  The car has an incredible ride now,
>with almost no body roll.  The problem is, he paid about $285 for 4 shocks, 
>without installation.  Is this abnormally expensive, or do most shocks cost
>this much? 

that's a bilstein price; bilstein is a top quality shock and you pay
for that.  they'll last 100,000 miles without any noticeable degradation
in performance.

> If not, does anyone know of a particular brand of shocks that
>would give the car a stiff (police-ish) ride without having to fork out
>so much ca$h?

if you want bilstein type ride, and you can get them for the car,
then look for KYBs; they are very similar to bilsteins in that regard.
they aren't as well quality controlled, and will last about 1/2 as long,
but they cost about 1/3rd as much.  also, you're far more likely to
get a bad shock out of the box, but the KYB warranty will cover that.

most of the other premium shock brands (koni, sachs, etc.) cost about
as much as bilsteins.  sigh.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
From: jas20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (John A Sigmon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Any Toyota Performance Groups on the Net???
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:36:28 GMT
Reply-To: jas20@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (John A Sigmon)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Hi
I am about to rebuild a 22RET (turbo) for my 86' 4-Runner and would like
to know if there are any Toyota Performance groups on the net, that maybe
able to give me some tips (smog legal).
Please send any info to the above email address.
Thanks
John Sigmon
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:09:50 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 717817096@yacht, stuart@ee.fit.edu (William Stuart) writes:
|>In <13355@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
|>
|>>How many new RWD automobiles are still offered? There's the huge
|>>GM line (Buick Roadmonster/Caprice/new Fleetwood).  Is the Crown Vic?
|>>The trend seems clearly toward FWD, but don't know if that's mostly
|>>fashion or not.
|>
|>  Fashion?  No.
|>
|>  Bean Counters? Yes.
|>
|>  The fundamental reason cars are FWD these days are because it is cheaper to
|>  manufacture the car, while prices remain high.  Ala higher profit margins.
                                                               ^^^^^^

(:-) Profits, what profits?  (:-(


Partially true. assembly costs are lower because the entire powertrain
and front end can be mated to the body as a single unit.

But front-engine/FWD also reduces vehicle weight, which helps
fuel economy.


|>  Somebody may correct me, but I cannot think of one Ultra-high performance
|>  car that is not RWD.  STOCK, that is.  Or street prepared (SCCA definition)

What about the Audio Quattro and Porche Carrera 4 (and other probably) that
are AWD?


---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: CAR ALARMS: My Story/FAQ
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:33:02 GMT


In article <1602@rwja.umdnj.edu> holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu (Richard Holowczak) writes:
>[...]
>Pagers
>------
>A pager (sometimes called Autopage) is used to page your beeper
>when your car alarm goes off.  This way you can run to the parking
>lot and chase a potential car thief away or catch the person who
>just rammed in to your car before they speed away.  I can agree
>with wanting to catch someone who has vandalized my car but I can't
>see warding off a thief. First of all, where I must park, if
>someone is stealing my car, and I come running up, they will
>probably shoot me so they can take my keys to drive the car away.
>Also, I park pretty far from where I attend classes and work so
>even if the pager has the range to reach me, I'd have to run 3/4 of
>a mile to my car when it goes off.

A brief comment to this portion of your post:

Those of us with LoJack or similar tracking devices installed in our
vehicles can make very good use of an alarm pager. With the LoJack
system, the police can't start tracking your vehicle until you report it
stolen to them. Thus, the sooner you discover the theft, the sooner you
can report it, and the better off you are. With a pager, there's a good
chance that you will find out *instantly* that your vehicle is being
tampered with, so even if you're not up to confronting the thief you can at
least report the theft quickly, greatly increasing your chances of a
successful recovery and minimizing the chances that your vehicle will be
stripped or damaged before it is found.

>steering wheel locking bar (The Club).  Now all of you locksmiths
>can now tell me how easy it is to defeat these! :)

I'm no locksmith, but I can easily defeat the club simply by cutting
through the PLASTIC steering wheel and slipping the Club right off.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: Wider Wheels
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 01:50:56 GMT

In article A4SHds@andrew.cmu.edu, Stephen James Kendrish <sk4k+@andrew.cmu.edu> () writes:
>       After serious consideration and budgeting, I've decided to
>install a set of 17 x 9.5 wheels on my '87 Trans Am.  Now, after
>deciding, I need to know exactly how to do this.  I know it can be done
>because I've seen them on late model Camaros in a few magazines.  

(STUFF DELETED)

Are you sure that the wheels are not 16" in diameter? My Formula has factory
16" wheels with 50-series tires. When the tires in the front are new, they
sometimes rub the inside front of the fender liner. When they get worn down 
a bit, the interference goes away.
   About your offset question, The front and rear wheels are not interchangeable.
The front wheels have 10mm more offset than the rears. You won't be able to
rotate your tires (short of dismounting them from the rims and reinstalling
them) because they have a directional tread.

Andy.

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: msh8@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Mukul Sharma)
Subject: Re: newsgroup for 4x4 trucks?
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 19:57:08 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.antique,hotrod@dixie.com,rec.autos.sport
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: Newest Racing Course around.....
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 16:31:14 GMT

sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
: Went to Rod Powell's 21st picnic and saw some great cars in all
: stages of being build - yes...racing cars too for you ..sports
: fans...but to the topic of this thread...there's a new race course
: out, with tight "S's", straight-aways, humps, hills, etc...
: it's for pinstripers only, though, to get around the course in the 
: shortest time possible - going in the track record was 2:37 to beat,
: by the time I left, it was down to :54 ... watch for it.... (remember,
: these are the people who paint your cars, put on the graphics, etc...)
: 
-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 29 Sep 1992 07:08:39 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu

The thing I love to do most is to floor the gas while making a u-turn
on a nice and wet rainy day.... I don't think FWD's will be able to
produce as much exc&zc?~itment as RWD's under this kind of condition.    

Flame away guys/gals (let's not be sexist here...)  I've been wanting to
hear both sides of the argument on this for a while now...

David Shy
shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu

Xref: sparky rec.autos:23355 rec.autos.driving:5886
From: pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Ticket for running stop sign
Date: 6 Oct 1992 05:41:11 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

Brown, "Fight Your Ticket" shows both IL and NM in the Driver's License 
Compact, which means that they cross report "convictions and bail 
forfeitures".  He makes quite a point of the fact that they don't report
failure to appear, and that they won't come after you in another state. 
But the penalties for failure to appear in the offended state are severe and if you're
ever caught, it's jail city. 

Peter Mason
From: sylveste@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Audi GT Coupe Owners!?
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:35:41 GMT

In article <1ahnjnINNn6h@aludra.usc.edu>, ksham@aludra.usc.edu (Kam-Cheung Sham) writes:
> I just happen to own a 84 Audi GT coupe. And would like to get to know
> other pals out there who is also having one.  So that we may have a 
> smaller discussion group and know the group to look for help. 
> 
> So please drop me a mail and we may start some discussion anytime.
> I know there is not much GT coupe running around but I'm still expecting
> your favourable response.
> 
> 
> Carlos
> A happy owner of Audi
> 



Carlos,   

        rec.auto.vw has more discussion on this topic than this group.






                                                Mike Sylvester  Umass
                                                sylveste@ecs.umass.edu


"If it's not German, it's not worth driving."
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:17:55 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems


>Yup...exactly.  You see we have this situation in the Portland,Or
>area where it snows about once every 3 years.  For some reason
>the driving public forgets their snow driving experience after
>2 years and they proceed to crash into each other for several days
>until it becomes clear that whether you have FWD,RWD,OWD,4WD or AWD
>you can't drive like it was dry (which is pretty bad also).  So, for
>the first snow, I trudge down to the bus stop and while I'm waiting
>I watch all of the 4WD guys show off and crash into the FWD,RWD and
>AWD guys.

	Too true.  I've spun out more than once while in 4WD.  And 4WD
	doesn't help you get home faster when all the nWD cars are stuck
	on the road in front of you, or going so slow while you're steaming
	because you have no opportunity to show those guys what a real
	ute can do.

	Dave

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: ALFA ALFASUD?
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:42:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.042028.19827@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> dlawlor@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Doug Lawlor) writes:
>Can Alfa cars be bought in Canada?  I have not heard of any dealerships.
>Are there any?  

at this point in time, it is my understanding that Canada gets the same
cars as the US, via ARDONA (Alfa Romeo Distributors of North America.)
thus, you can get a couple of models of the 164 (FWD sedan) and the
115 series Spider.  a lot of the neat stuff like the 33 and the new 155
is sadly unavailable.

early in the US safety/emissions era Canada used to get different cars from
the US, but i don't think that this is true any longer.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: ALLOY WHEELS - why?
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:34:46 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, ebergman@phaedrus.East.Sun.COM (Eric Bergman) writes:
>I know zilch about alloy wheels.  What do they do for you?
>What are the pro's and con's of alloy wheels?

Let's see, where to start?
1) They're lighter.
2) They're generally stiffer, if you get a performance based wheel.
3) They're one-piece construction (for the most part) so you're hubcaps
won't get stolen. :)
4) No hubcaps = no rattling, loosening, flying off on the highway and
hitting another car, or ugly rims that require $100 to replace the hubcap
you just lost. (Wheels can be had in the $100 range)
5) Looks?!?!

And probably a long list of things I forgot to mention or didn't want
to type out.
Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dmg@wmod2000.larc.nasa.gov (David Grant)
Subject: Compact Truck Recomendations
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:39:46 GMT

I'm considering buying a compact truck as a cheap form of
transportation and also to haul around some band 
equipment.  I'm looking for something under 10,000 (around 9,000 would
be best) with A/C and manual transmission.

Any positive/negative feedback would be appreciated.  Some idea
of what I should expect to pay would also be nice.  (I have a
price guide, I'm just wondering how close to invoice I'll be able
to deal).

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Subject: Re: Paint on Chrysler's LH(Last Hope) models
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:06:58 GMT

In article <7740227@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno  
Melli) writes:
> > Maybe in a few years, we'll have more data on the LH to base 
> > reliability info on.
> 
> Don't need to wait for a few years. 
> TIME magazine reported that they had a recall on the LH because 
> of a piston shattering and locking the engine. 
> They also mentionned that they had an earlier recall (can't remember  
for 
> what but it was a fairly minor problem) which was not a big deal
> at the time because there were less than 500 LH in circulation.
> 
> Now I can understand bugs in a new car but pistons shattering ???
> Seems to me that you really need to be patriotic to buy one of the  
early
> models...
> 
> bruno.
> 
> 
	I read that the piston problem was traced to an assembly error  
in the new engine.  What you did not note is that it affected about  
1500 cars, none of which was in customer hands yet.  Chrysler took  
every one of them back, fixed the problem (I think a wrongly installed  
rod pin) and WILL NOT sell any of these 1500 cars to the public.  They  
will be used internally as test vehicles.  
	I don't know about anyone else, but this looks to me like a  
watershed event in the US auto industry.  I also noticed in a story in  
Thursday's Wall Street Journal that this is not an isolated incident.   
A recent paint problem in Grand Cherokees resulted in a team of  
engineers or paint experts tracing the problem over Easter weekend  
following a complaint from a dealer.
	I think Chrysler is dead serious about new car quality these  
days.  

Jim Cavanaugh	
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 14:14:24 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: MPG as f(velocity) relationship?
Distribution: na


Is a generalized relationship for calculation of mileage as a function
of velocity for a given vehicle?  

For example, if the Honda Civic HB gets 55 mpg in the standard highway
mileage test, what would it get at 40 mph?

E-mail replies are fine.

Thanks.

russ@pmafire.inel.gov
From: sly9y@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 93 Ford Probe GT Doorlock Problem
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:50:31 MDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep25.140936.16343@osf.org>, kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
> In article <1992Sep24.182837.15675@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
> lui@rigel.UUCP (26061-lui,alex) writes:
>>I noticed that the car doorlock automatically unlocks whenever I pull on the
>>door latch (from inside the car), even while I was driving.  
> 
> This must be a Ford thing, not your alarm. My Merkur unlocks the door
> "automatically" when you pull on the handle. I haven't caught the worst STD
> of all yet (i.e., no kids), so it's not a problem for me.
> 
> 	-Kenny
From what I understand, as I don't have a new probe, the car just locks the 
doors automatically a few seconds after the car is started and the doors are
shut.  This was the case for a 92 caravan I drove a while back.

Pete
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:42:53 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Oct1.234325.8379@sol.UVic.CA>, atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik) writes:
|> In article 100805@usho21.hou281.chevron.com, hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
|> >  I drove RWD through the 70's - performance and pedestrian.  In the 1981, 
|> >  I got my first FWD.  11 years later, I still drive FWD - Dodge Stealth RT.
|> >  The family car has been a Chevy Caprice and now a Chevy Surburban.  In my
|> >  experience, the FWD handled just as well as any RWD but, in the rain, ice,
|> >  and snow, the FWD handled better and I felt alot safer than in the RWD.
|> >
|> >  IMHO, as always.
|> >
|> >  TRAVIS
|> 
|>  Reply: I drove RWD from the beginning. By '88 or so, I finally switched to
|> FWD. Two years later, after two bad wipeouts (one of which started with a front-
|> wheel blowout on slush, the other losing rear wheel grip on snow just by 
|> using compression after downshifting) and a collision repair fiasco, I gladly
|> switched back. 

   Of course, down here in Texas, when the roads ice over for a day or two each 
   year, or even when it snows, EVERYONE's all over the roads, FWD or RWD.  :)


|> Since this is subjective, I am not trying to convert FWD devotees to my way of
|> thinking. 

   Right, it is purely subjective.  And I guess that's essentially the point
   I was trying to make.  Some can handle RWD better than FWD and vice versa.
   Each have their good points, each have their bad.  There's probably many
   personal examples both good and bad for both RWD and FWD.   

   I think only the competitive or professional drivers can really tell a
   difference between FWD and RWD.  And they could handle either one better
   than the vast majority of us can at our best, IMHO.

   Like others have said, regardless of which type you chose, you'd better 
   learn how to drive it, learn what I can and can't do, and most of all,
   learn what YOU can and can't do.


|> >  IMHO, as always.

|> Now what does IMHO mean...I hate jargon!

   In My Humble Opinion      Yeah, but it saves typing.
   ^  ^  ^      ^      

   Happy Motoring!

   TRAVIS
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: sho limits
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:19:06 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <14827@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>easily invoke oversteer in the car.  The limits are so high, though that
>I don't know how much understeer would appear past the limit.

	It plows like a CrisCraft with a broken rudder.  And then,
of course, when you get off the pedal it switches to severe oversteer.
I almost bought it this way on a tight S curve when I first had the car:
took the second turn way too fast, started to plow, lifted to get traction
to the front, and broke the rear loose.  Fishtail city.  

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: c.oneill@trl.oz.au (Chris O'Neill)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: Telecom Australia Research Laboratories, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:48:12 GMT

In article <Bvnsow.1q1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct2.233501.17589@newsgate.sps.mot.com>
mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
>>
>>So anyone can claim RWD or FWD is better, but all they are telling me is that
>>they either know very little about what makes cars handle or that they only
>>know how to drive one type of design.
>
>Unless, of course, they're telling you that no matter how well you
>drive, you can't cheat the laws of physics.

Here comes a case of "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous".

>Each wheel+tire has a certain amout of friction which it can use to
>effect a change in the vehicle's motion. In a RWD car, the friction of
>the rear tires is used to propel the car forward or backward,

Believe it or not, the rear tires are also involved in changing the direction
of motion of the car.  They exert a sideways force on the car when it is going
around a curve.

 while the
>friction of the front tires is used to effect changes in heading. In a
>FWD car, the front tires must do BOTH jobs; thus, it's easier to exceed
>the ability of the tire to grip the road effectively if you're
>accelerating and steering simultaneously.

Front and rear tires are both involved in changing direction of any car.

>Why do you think there aren't any FWD Indy cars or NASCAR racers?

A correct, detailed explanation would be nice.

Chris O'Neill
Telecom Australia Research Labs
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23236 rec.autos.tech:13474 rec.autos.driving:5842 rec.autos.sport:10837
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: *** Design Logic Faults ***
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:27:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct2.212724.15234
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

No turbo?  No nitrous?  No wings?  Get outa here!
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: rec._autos_, pal, rec._autos_
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:55:56 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <6953@transfer.stratus.com> cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com writes:
>You forgot one key category . . .
>    Superbikes     <3    <11   FJ1200, ZX-11, CBR1000, etc
>Maximum performance for 1/2 the price of the cheapest car on this list !

	And you don't have to worry about getting them repaired after
the accident.

	Nahh, *you* forgot one key category . . . 

	Jet Fighter Aircraft     <.1 <1 F111, etc.

	Weenie.  We're talking about cars.
							wr
Newsgroups: rec.autos