HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: doug@cos.com (Doug Whitehead)
Subject: good mac bbs?
Keywords: bbs
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 21:30:16 GMT

Can someone please email me the number of a good
bbs that supports the mac? 

Thanks in advance
doug

|  Doug Whitehead           doug@cos.com  |
|  Corp. for Open Systems Int.L           |
|  8260 Willow Oaks Corp. Dr., Suite 700  |
|  Fairfax, VA    22031         USA       |

Newsgroups: dc.general
From: judiths@eliot.uucp (Judith Speck)
Subject: Re: Wliderness Resort in Fredicksburg?
Reply-To: judiths@usisun.UUCP (Judith Speck)
Organization: UNITECH Software, Inc., Reston, VA
Distribution: dc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:58:36 GMT

In article <DSC3JFS.92Dec21104053@imc10.med.navy.mil> dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil (John Skoda) writes:
>
> I would like to talk with a member of the Wildreness Resort club, are
>there any members out there?  The resort seems to offer a tremendous
>amount of amenities but, is it too good to be true?  I am just
>interested in real-person experiences both good and bad.  I am
>wondering if the resort is just another time-share rip-off?  Any
>information would be great, thanks...
>--
>
>-- John F Skoda                              The nice thing about standards   


  RUN, do not walk away from this place!  My SO and I went to 
visit this place (one of those "come look at our place and we'll
give you a gift" direct mail deals, and we had nothing else to do
that weekend.)  At the time, I was still in college, and yet between
the two of us we qualified for the "deluxe tour" because our
income was above $25,000.  This place is a glorified trailer park,
with a few cottages.  We got to tour the cottages, otherwise, on the
pauper tour you only get to look at trailer spots.  No kidding!
The clientele was really scary--mostly a bunch of hicks (in trailers)
and the amenities were pretty cheezy.  There is a lake there, and 
a few hiking trails, as well as a clubhouse and gym--but nothing
of any great quality.  They were of course pressuring us to buy
that day--at about $10,000.  I was too polite to tell them what
I really thought--that you could give this away and I wouldn't
want to own it.  They finally just gave us our gas grill and $25
and we left.  The gas grill was this really cheezy thing that looked
like a major fire hazard.  The box it came in was smaller than that
of a habachi.  You might be able to grill 2 hamburgers on it if
you're lucky, and the propane was not included.


Like I said--RUN AWAY!!

Judith
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Cross-country skiing in DC area?
Date: 1 Jan 93 12:00:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Is there any place within a few hours driving time from
D.C. where cross-country skiing is done?
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: weimin@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Weimin Liu)
Subject: Radio station in DC carrying "Car Talk"?
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University, Boilnomore, Merryland
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:35:59 GMT

Hi All,

I've always enjoyed listening to the NPR program "Car Talk."  Having
recently moved from Baltimore to Rockville, I can't seem to find the
schedule of that program on NPR stations in the DC area.  Can someone
give me a pointer (I used to listen to WJHU 88.1 in Baltimore, but
that station is not strong enough to give Rockville good reception)?

Thanks.
Weimin
--
Weimin Liu  (wliu@lando.hns.com)
Hughes Network Systems, Germantown MD 20876
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 10:54:01 GMT

terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes:
>drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>> 
>> Oh yes we do.  You pay your money, you get your car.  Nobody at
>> the dealership cares about your driving skills or your safety 
>> record.  In fact, if all you want to do with your car is drive
>> it on your own property, you *never* have to worry about
>> licensing, insurance, driving tests, etc.
>
>Then a minor question - how did you get that car to your property from
>the dealership?  

I don't think the dealers drive them from the factories to
the dealerships, so I guess there must be some way to move cars
around from point to point without actually driving them.  Now, I
happen to have a driver's license and I register my cars for use
on public highways, so I would probably drive it home.  But I
don't suppose it would take any great ingenuity or cost very
much to arrange an alernative.  If you buy a bulldozer, I don't
think they make (or would even let) you drive it home.

>If they delivered it, then do you foresee a handgun delivery service?
>That should go over really well!

Hmmm, you lost me there.  Do you really think that handgun
purchasers would pay to have their purchases delivered in
numbers sufficient to support some sort of delivery service? 
Seems pretty unlikely to me.  In any case, in Maryland, and
probably everywhere else, handgun purchasers are required to
personally execute the State and Federal paperwork required to
document the transfer of ownership.  Since they have to be there 
anyway, there is probably no market for your concept.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: stxtnt@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov (Nigel Tzeng)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Wheres a good gym in Greenbelt, C.P., S.S. ?
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:02:12 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA

In article <1992Dec31.145723.26759@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:

>anon.203@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>> I'm looking for a Gym in the Greenbelt, College Park,
>>Silver Spring area that has your basic weights and perhaps a
>>few aerobic workout methods (indoor track, bikes, steps, etc)
>>but does not cost a fortune.  

>   Try calling "Clean and Lean" in College Park. They're a small gym at
>the intersection of Rt. 1 and Calvert rd. They have machines, freeweights and
>cycles. Not too expensive (if I remember correctly, it was something $50/month)
>and best of all, they have washing machines and dryers so that you can get all
>sweaty and stinky, and then wash your clothing as you soak in their hottubs.

If you're a UMD alumni you can get a card and use their facilities
(ugh...but it's like $50 a year...).  Holiday has specials every now
and again and the last time I checked membership ran about $30/month
if not less...  An iffy deal though as the Greenbelt club is somewhat
crowded unless you like odd hours.  The weight room is pretty nice though.

>	   Stephen Chan
>	   uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net

Nigel
--
Nigel Tzeng
.sig under construction
From: dougnews@access.digex.com (Doug Humphrey)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: joint the dc-g_u_n_s mailing list!
Date: 28 Dec 1992 02:14:17 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <5340@prcrs.prc.com> terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes:
>
>I feel that we should not allow unrestricted use of handguns, then figure
>out afterwards who the criminals were.  Your own response indicates the 
>high number of repeat offenders that show up,

the gun issue is seperate from the repeat-offenders issue; I was
pointing out that a very small number of people do most of the 
crimes (a provable fact) and that if on their second (or even third)
conviction they were identified as repeat offenders and treated as
such, then maybe the number of crimes would drop.  Some repeat offenders
use guns, and some don't...  guns do not a repeat offender make.

>yet the gun lobby has shown
>no interest in effecting the kinds of checks that may prevent even these
>people from aquiring handguns easily.

many pro-gun people would support such checks and requirements if 
they had confidence that they could be done without starting toward
the "slippery slope" of regulation.   This has nothing to do with 
the merits of your suggestion, or even with guns for that matter, 
since the same applies equally well to abortion, and other issues
where a limitation of rights is being considered.

There is often a fear that once one moves from the absolute state
(there MUST be abortion on demand, there must be an absolute right
to keep and bear arms, there must be absolute freedom of speech)
to a compromising state (abortion under most conditions but not all,
guns with some form or registration or performance based licensing,
freedom of speech with some limitation to protect certain situations)
then where the line is actually drawn will be a matter of perception
for different groups, as opposed to when the argument was one of 
absolutes, where there was no question where the parties stood.

So, some gun people would gladly accept a modified version of the 
gun situation, but only if they do not lose something in the bargain.
If they are to lose something valuable, then why do the deal at all,
why not just fight for the current situation?  The art of compromise
is a lost one here in the US...  

Let's move this discussion to the mailing list  dc-guns@access.digex.com
since the dc.talk.guns group looks defunct...  

>Why is it so incongruous to you to apply the same restrictions on handguns?

See the explaination above; it is not incongruous to me.

-- 
Doug Humphrey    Express Access Public Access Internet   Voice (301) 220-2020
doug@digex.com   Dialup: (301) 220-0462 Login as "new"   Email info@digex.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I say it again, in the land of the free; use your freedom of choice." - DEVO
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re:  ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: 29 Dec 92 02:24:07 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec28.160307.14188@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
#
#In article <mumble> purtilo@cs.umd.edu writes:
#> I'm starting to get the sense that you aren't terribly serious in this 
#> discussion. Is it your intent to distrupt discussion on dc.general, instead
#> of allowing participants to exchange facts, experiences and ideas -- and mayb
#> coming up with a constuctive idea or two?
#
#A question on prevention Jim:
#
#Do you use condoms, or do you support abortion ?
#
#Kev.

Looks to me like Kev has decisively supported my hypothesis that he intends
only disruption in the group.  More's the pity.  I would really rather educate
and solve problems instead of dissipate our creative energies in net flaming.
From: dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil (John Skoda)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Wliderness Resort in Fredicksburg?
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:40:53 GMT
Distribution: dc
Organization: Electronic Learning Facilitator, inc


 I would like to talk with a member of the Wildreness Resort club, are
there any members out there?  The resort seems to offer a tremendous
amount of amenities but, is it too good to be true?  I am just
interested in real-person experiences both good and bad.  I am
wondering if the resort is just another time-share rip-off?  Any
information would be great, thanks...
--

-- John F Skoda                              The nice thing about standards   
-- electronic learning facilitators, inc.    is that there are so many to
-- Bethesda, MD                              choose from, and if you dont
-- dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil                see one you like, wait 'till
with DISCLAIMER_PACKAGE;                     next year...
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:29:30 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec21.200053.918@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>In article <62934@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
>> 
>> {guns & cars discussion deleted}
>> 
>> ...  But in both of these areas, firearms and unsafe drivers, I would
>> hope we could reform the judicial system and elect judges that will really
>> enforce the law....]
>> 
>
>You really mean enforce punishment (in the hope that adequate punishment will
>deter the offenders).
>
>This approach will generally mean 1 (or more) innocent person(s) dead or injure
>for each offender punished. Better to remove the means of offence IMHO.

Its not clear how Fascism will help, Kev, why do you promote a Draconian 
system of justice?   Since we were talking about both violent crime and 
unsafe drivers, I take it then that you promote banning of automobiles ...
all the better to "remove the means of offence" [sic].

In place of Fascism, where the needs of individuals are displaced favor
of power to the state, I again refer you to the previous poster who pointed
out our country is based upon trust of the individual.  The case is made
(and I believe correctly so) that promoting a strong justice system (in
conjunction with addressing other factors in our society which exacerbate
crime) will result in a net *savings* of lives compared to a society which
distrusts its citizens but provides uncertain enforcement of its laws.

Read that again, Kev ... a net *savings* of lives.

As a citizen of this country, Kev, you are entitled to any opinion you want
on the matter.  But if you really are concerned to reduce violent crime, then
I encourage you to study the matter as we have, to discover (again) that 
the only effective deterrent to crime is ``the CERTAINTY of swift punishment''
Check out the regular publications from the DOJ, and also that latest report
from the National Research Council called "Understanding and Preventing
Violence".  These groups don't think firearm bans will affect violence in
the least.  Moreover, they point out that the dominant portion of crime is done
by a (comparatively) small number of career criminals.  Therefore, why don't
we rigorously enforce of our existing laws --- targetting criminals who have
already demonstrated a willingness to live outside society --- instead of
letting Kev install a government which will treat us all like we *could* be 
criminals.

Jim

Newsgroups: dc.general
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin@clsi.com
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 14:49:45 GMT


In article <62995@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.200053.918@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
> >In article <62934@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
> >
> >This approach will generally mean 1 (or more) innocent person(s) dead or injure
> >for each offender punished. Better to remove the means of offence IMHO.
> 
> Its not clear how Fascism will help, Kev, why do you promote a Draconian 

???? Who is a Fascist ?????

> system of justice? 

What ? - I was asking for prevention.


>  Since we were talking about both violent crime and 
> unsafe drivers, I take it then that you promote banning of automobiles ...
> all the better to "remove the means of offence" [sic].

Well, yes. There are too many cars and trucks on the road, we could do with
better public transport. But I will not vote to ban them, similarly I am not
suggesting guns be banned either - just made harder to buy.

What happened to my line about paranoia ?

> 
> In place of Fascism, where the needs of individuals are displaced favor
> of power to the state, I again refer you to the previous poster who pointed
> out our country is based upon trust of the individual.  The case is made
> (and I believe correctly so) that promoting a strong justice system (in
> conjunction with addressing other factors in our society which exacerbate
> crime) will result in a net *savings* of lives compared to a society which
> distrusts its citizens but provides uncertain enforcement of its laws.
> 
> Read that again, Kev ... a net *savings* of lives.

No matter how many times I read it, it still looks like bull****.

> As a citizen of this country, Kev, you are entitled to any opinion you want
> on the matter.  But if you really are concerned to reduce violent crime, then
> I encourage you to study the matter as we have, to discover (again) that 
> the only effective deterrent to crime is ``the CERTAINTY of swift punishment''

Now that does sound like Fascism.


Kev.

--
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:07:41 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec22.144945.7622@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>In article <62995@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec21.200053.918@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>> >In article <62934@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
>> >
>> >This approach will generally mean 1 (or more) innocent person(s) dead or injure
>> >for each offender punished. Better to remove the means of offence IMHO.
>> 
>> Its not clear how Fascism will help, Kev ......
>
>???? Who is a Fascist ?????

Sure looks like you are, Kev, from the position you have taken.  You have
stated you want to ban firearms to "remove the means of the offence".  So,
at the same time you want to remove the means of self defense from millions
of honest citizens, leave them open to prey by whatever criminals you prefer
to protect, and remove the last "check" on a mammoth government in a system
of checks and balances .... 

 ... all on the premise that this honest citizen *might* become a criminal?  
That he or she may *may* someday be irresponsible?

>> system of justice? 
>What ? - I was asking for prevention.

So am I!  Strong enforcement of existing laws would get offenders off the
streets the first time you catch them, instead of allowing them out to commit
hundreds, if not thousands, of crimes -- some of them heinous enough to report
on the evening news.  That translates into strong prevention of crimes that
the known offender would be free to make under your system of justice, Kev.

Face it. You're not going to stop all crime.  Instead of going after the
entire population, and treating them like criminals from the start, why don't
we recognize that a strong justice system can have a much greater effect on
crime by zeroing in on that vast minority in the population which has already
demonstrated a willingness to make a career of crime?

>No matter how many times I read it, it still looks like bull****.

Ahh, ever articulate in debate.
From: wes@ice.stx.com (John Shepherd)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: New Year's Eve Suggestion
Keywords: Party, champagne, live music, dancing
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:40:28 GMT
Reply-To: wes@ice.stx.com
Distribution: dc
Organization: Hughes STX, Lanham, MD



For those still in a quandry over what to do for New Year's Eve, There's 
gonna be some great live rockabilly/honky-tonk entertainment featuring 
Ruthie & the Wranglers and Mark Noone & Out Behind The Barn at Taliano's in
Takoma Park. The cost is only 7 dollars.

Taliano's is at 7001 Carrol Ave, 3 blocks from the Takoma Park Metro. The 
number is 301 270-5515. Come early.

   
                                                                             \
==============================================================================>
         ______                 ____________________                         /
           /  __   _  _  _  _  /__   _  _  ___  __   _  _  ___  __   __  
       ___/  /_/ _/--/ _/\_/  ___/ _/--/ _/_- _/-' _/--/ _/_- _/-<,_/__>

         wes@ice.stx.com     (John Shepherd)    Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: Gun owners lose CT case
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin@clsi.com
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:10:16 GMT


In article <1885@tnc.UUCP>, m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY) writes:
> 
> ...examined the experiences of Switzerland and Israel, it would have 
> seen a completely different picture.
>    Both countries distribute automatic weapons to their citizens 
> by the millions, and yet both have two of the lowest murder rates 
> in the world.  According to researcher Don Kates of the Pacific 
> Research Institute for Public Policy, the armed Swiss only have a 
> murder rate of 1.13 per 100,000 people; in Israel, the rate is
> 2.0.  The US murder rate is 9.8 per 100,000 people.
>  

That's 'cause they are Swiss, not because they have guns
- and what about Israel ?

Kev.
--
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Goodbye dc.general
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:57:34 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec24.164620.26106@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>In article <725162424.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>, Don.Noll@p3425.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Don Noll) writes:
>> On 12/22/92, David Gursky said something very interesting to all on the subject
>> of Goodbye dc.general. 
>> 
>>   DG> Personally, I'm tired of all this crap on dc.general about Gun Control
>>   DG> and I'm unsubscribing to this group.  There are a number of
>>   DG> appropriate newsgroups for this stuff and I'm chagrined I have to wade
>>   DG> through crap about rulings by the Connecticut courts because of the
>>   DG> poor manners of other people on this group.
>>   DG> --- MacWoof 1.5.3
>>  
>> I have to agree Dave.  Most of the last few hundred messages have
>> little to do with DC.  I just have not read most of them.
>> I am sure there are a hundred or two people who read this group that feel
>> the same way.
>> 
>
>As long as DC is the "murder capital" of the USA it is a relevent topic for
>dc.general - it seems more relevent to me than the endless postings we had on
>how many people turned up for the anti-abortion march.

I have to agree with the original poster -- there *are* other places on the
net for this topic, including off line, which is where I've taken several
conversations myself.  But, sadly, many posters continue to use this forum
to promote unfounded and dangerous ideas about, in this case, gun control;
when this happens, I think a sincere and frank response is warranted, least
other thoughtful readers not have an adequate basis for learning about all
the issues to decide for themselves.

I'm *concerned* about violent crime in the DC metro area, and take great care
for the safety of my family. This is why I am appalled at some of the text 
posted by people like Kev, and I see our responses to him as honest citizens
standing up to be counted.  But still, I appreciate that many readers don't
see this as the forum for said counting, and I apoligize that -- so far -- we
have not succeeded in keeping the followup discussion from creeping back to
dc.general.

Sincerely,

Jim