HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:46:19 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <Bvpus3.I0o@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.163816.12733@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>
>>I do not think you understood which people I meant by 'impacted the most
>>regressively'. I was not talking about the $40K/year engineer who drives
>>100 miles a day; I was talking about the $10K/year technically working
>>poor driving a beater that has to choose between Mr. Perot's tax or
>>clothes for their backs.
>
>Say, perhaps you can help your case by citing what happens to the
>"working poor" of Europe. After all, they pay $5/gallon for gas in many
>countries, the vast majority of which is tax.

Sure. Let us not forget that I've lived in one such country for 22 years,
never had a car there despite being relatively well off, etc. I've also
visited other countries in Europe and have had contacts with many many
people who live there, discussing these subjects.

For starters, the 'working poor' of Europe use buses or mass transit which,
while not cheap, is not as overpriced as mass transit in the US (due to
mass subsidies and heavy utilisation). The reality is that it is cheaper
and more convenient for them to use mass transit. Even middle class people,
whose US equivalents would not be caught dead in a bus in the US, take
the bus. The bus system there has options such as monthly passes that
make it very cost effective to use a bus. 

Second, nobody drives the phenomenal distances we drive here. I commute
30 miles a day, one way, and am not the only one... In Europe, people think
I'm crazy to do so. Now, it takes me 30 minutes to get to work (well,
35) and it takes them 30 minutes for 4 miles by bus. In Greece, 30 miles,
or 50 km, is pretty much two area codes away.... Out of all the people
I knew back home, ONE had a 20 km one way and was suffering. He wasn't
'working poor' but gas was a major chunk of his budget.

Also people drive MUCH more fuel efficient cars there in general. Over
there a Honda Civic is a medium sized car. With cars over, say, 1600 cc
(1.6l) being penalized to death in taxes, there's little incentive.

Finally, the working lower middle class has it a lot nicer there than
in the US. $5 a gallon sounds expensive, but balance it over free
education, health care, subsidised day care, etc and you can understand
why people haven't revolted there. 

>Then again, reporting what happens to those people might just weaken
>your case, too...

Yea, right... 

Spiros (formerly working poor in Europe)
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: nau@ssesco.com (William Nau)
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Organization: SSESCO
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:45:21 GMT

>When you really think about it, raising the gas tax by $.10 a year from
>$.145 per gallon now to $.6145 in five years is not all bad. It will
>cause pick-ups (my person most hated vehicle right after vans) and vans
>to become more scarce, while cars won't really be affected that much.
>Right now I pay ~$100 per month for gas, @$1.32, at $1.82, that would
>be $138. Not that much, except I would prefer that it be placed against
>the pricipal of the deficit, and not used for anything else. (IOW, a
>balanced budget would have to also account for the interest of the deficit,
>and all new funds generated would have to go towards the priciple.)

Ok, I can't help myself.  My problem with the gas tax is that it is a poor
people tax.  Ross with his 3 billion dollars won't even notice it.  
Mr $200,000/yr won't notice it.  I will notice it, but survive pretty
well.  Some poor guy who can barely keep is '77 LTD running will be
trashed by it.  The percentage of your income that goes to this will 
tend to increase the less you make.  Hence a poor people tax.

Another problem is the desire to use this to pay off the deficit.  What 
does gas have to do with any of that?  Gas tax should be used to pay for
roads, cleaning up the enviornment, and other such stuff that is related
to using it.

If you want to tax the people to pay off the nationl debt, be straighforward
about with an increase in income tax.  At least income tax is intended (note
the word intended) to be fair.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: Stubborn Cyclists
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:52:39 GMT

drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:

>Treat cyclists the same way you would ANY slow moving traffic.  Wait until
>it's safe to pass (Ie, no traffic in the other lane!) and then do so.  

>If you risk it, remember that you could loose everything you own in 
>a civil case, not to mention the criminal penalties or having to 
>live with your conscience for the rest of your life.

    This is the best advice.  Remember, whether you like it or not, cyclists
have every legal right to the roads, and if you treat them carelessly and hurt
one, you're the one who's going to pay for it, especially if a jury is
involved.

    Bike paths don't go everywhere cyclists need to go (by a longshot!) and
often are poorly maintained and meant only for light recreational use, not
transportation.

    And please DON'T start these stupid arguments of breaking down taxes
paid and saying "you can't do this because you don't pay taxes for it".
If you want to start that, we can talk about cigarette smokers not paying
their fair share of health costs, you name it.  This is a society, and we
all pay for everything.

    Treat a cyclist with respect and chances are very good he/she will attempt
to treat you the same way.  Passing in the same lane, besides being illegal,
shows that you have no respect for that person's well-being or your own.
Cyclists are vehicles (sometimes slow-moving ones, sometimes not) and should
be treated as such.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Who can doubt that pleasure is the only goal of a reasoned life?"
                                                   -- Epicurus
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:5679 ca.driving:2171 soc.culture.indian:32311
From: pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,ca.driving,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Fighting Tickets (Was: Speeding Tickets)
Summary: Books on fighting tickets
Keywords: Ticket, fighting, speeding
 
    There seems to be a good deal of interest in the book I
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:54:33 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu


     The book is "Fight Your Ticket" by Atty. David Brown.  it's
published by Nolo Press in Berkeley, which touts itself as a
self-help law book publisher. It's gone through four editions,
the latest in 1991. My neighborhood library has all four
editions, so it must be popular.  I found it under "traffic
violations" on the library index computer.  Dewey number is
345.0247 BRO 1991, ISBN 0-87337-132-1.  This copy cost $21.95. 
It's obviously specialized to California, but there are some
pretty good general topics on how to act when stopped (polite,
non-committal, don't make the cop's job easy by admitting
anything. Check out all the facts you can and write down the
entire incident for use in court.)  One of his claims is that the
cop is trained to decide whether to give you a ticket before he
gets out of his car, so fawning or apologizing will get you
nowhere. Another point is to read the vehicle code very
carefully, because each code section requires that several
elements be established to convict you.  Brown also dicusses out-
of state-tickets and lists the states that are in the Driver's
License Compact and cross report-violations.  (This was a thread
on this board a while back.)   Incidently Brown verifies that you
can't be convicted of a speed violation using radar measurement
unless there has been a survey within 5 years.  (I had said 3 in
an earlier posting.)

     I found two other books in the same Dewey classification.  I
haven't read them yet.  "Traffic Court - How to Win", by Atty.
James Glass, Allenby Press, Arcadia, CA, 1988, claims to be
nationwide in application.  "How to Win in Traffic Court", by
Phil Bello, J.D., Major Market Books, Gibbsboro, NJ, 1900, also
claims to be nationwide.  Both books, naturally enough, appear to
be much less specific than Brown.
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:29:50 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.driving, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>In article <25996@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense) wri

>this, and I'm a fan of small cars. I also have first hand experience from
>the 'other side', where gas costs $3.50 a gallon.

>First off, the gas tax is regressive big time. It hits the lower classes
>and incomes a lot more than it does the so called middle class or

This argument is really a bit off, as you will see below. It is not
nearly as regressive as you think. Tax on food, however, is very regressive.

>Second, there's no guarantee that the funds collected will be used for
>deficit reduction. Remember the $1.25 spent for $1 collected equation?

Correct, but if it is directly siphoned off for that, what can be done?
Can't take money back that's already spent. I also say herein that there
should be a new formula, $0.8 spent for $1 collected or even better.
It is idealistic, but I did say that is the conditions that I would
accept it.

>Third, whether we like it or not, low priced gasoline has created a life
>style that would be upset quite a bit by a gas hike. Speaking from
...
>The government is in no position to 'social engineer' the reversal of the
>bedroom/work/mall separation.

No, but it would happen were this to be imposed. And if you noticed
my calculations, it was for Super unleaded, which is also used in a
gas hog (20 mpg) and I probably drive 1000 miles or more per month.
(I just know what my bills are, I don't really keep track of mileage.)
The average commuter in an econobox will see a much lower rise in costs,
as the lower income folks generally don't have the luxury (money) to
move to an area that embodies what they would like in a neighborhood.
Ugly facts, but true, so the synopsis is that the ones to pay up would
be mostly those with expensive gas guzzlers who have chosen to live
far from work, because they like the neighborhood.

Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Subject: Re: Truckers ARE professionals
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:34:39 GMT

While reading article <1992Oct5.130301.22956@wam.umd.edu>, I noticed that
ham@wam.umd.edu (Scott Richard Rosenfeld) said the following:
 >I have driven 40,000 highway miles in the last 2 years or so and have found
 >that truckers are generally very polite to those who drive courteously.  
 >If you drive like a truck driver (flash to let people in, don't tailgate,
 >don't cut people off) you will generally get a lot of respect from them,
 >such as flashing to let YOU in front of them.

Two quick issues:

1) By "dipping" lights when it's clear to reenter the lane, does that mean
   a quick hi-lo flash (or lo-hi, if you already are running with your high
   beams on), or a quick off-on?

2) I have, on more than one occasion, called the "How's my driving?" number on
   the back of a trailer to complement the driver's dispatcher/boss on the
   trucker's excellent driving.  Without exception, each one of these
   dispatchers has been completely floored by the fact that I actually called
   to _complement_ one of their drivers.  It's just like most things, people
   only call to complain.  If you deal with a good driver, call the number and
   let their dispatcher know (be sure to get the trailer number off the truck).
   You'll most certainly make both the dispatcher's and the driver's day.
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
From: gregc@jacobi.WPI.EDU (Gregory M Charland)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Off-Road Driving Techniques
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:42:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: jacobi.wpi.edu


     Sorry if this is slightly inappropriate here, but I was wondering about
the off-road driving techniques in magazines.
     I'm especially wondering about the little one that says to "start the
truck with the manual shift in gear when using 4-Lo."
     Anyone tried this?  Anyone do this?  It seems like a bad idea, but I
haven't done that much driving in places where I'm that likely to need 4-Lo.
     Just a thought...
greg

     ---------------------------------------------
      Gregory M. Charland-----> gregc@wpi.wpi.edu  
     ---------------------------------------------  




-- 
     ---------------------------------------------
      Gregory M. Charland-----> gregc@wpi.wpi.edu  
     ---------------------------------------------
From: dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: tips for Indiana, Ohio ?
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:07:02 GMT
Organization: ACME products - artillery division

tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

> 
> In article <1992Oct1.214926.16223@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.pu
> >
> >gee, how nice that our tax dollars buy the police sports cars
> 
> This may come as a shock to you, but the 5 liter Mustangs and Camaros that
> police departments purchase actually cost LESS than the beached whale
> Caprices and land yacht Crown Vics. Buy buying these "sports cars"
> they're actually SAVING some of our tax dollars.

Marginal, at best. I can do an oil change and swap the plugs and air
filter on a Caprice in about an hour. On a mustang.. You're looking at a
good half a day - at $60/hr. Eats into your savings real fast.


--
"A leopard never changes his stripes" 
           -- Al Gore, candidate for vice-president
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase)
Subject: Re: ERROR filled ticket? Any case?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:27:38 GMT

In <1992Oct6.194737.1@sscvx1.ssc.gov> schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
>  How acurately does the trooper have to fill out the speeding ticket? I my
>case my name is spelled wrong, wrong type of car (I drive a pickup and filled
>in 2drhdtp), weather was wrong (foggy not cloudy) and the mile marker on the
>ticket is ten miles before where I stood.

Funny you should ask -- I was talking to a lawyer about just that fact the
other day.  He was not allowed to speak on Oregon law, but he told me about
the case in Illinois.  I assume it's pretty general information, but you
might want to ask about state-by-state variations.

He said that the ticket's purpose is to (1) notify you of the court date,
(2) identify you.  So if there are minor errors (i.e. on my ticket, the
officer didn't write down an apartment number and marked "92" in both the
year and make of car), it probably isn't enough to dismiss on just errors
alone (though I wonder how even a policeman could have missed so much :).

If you decide to fight it, you can certainly use the mistakes to cast
aspersion on the officer's observational capacity; you should weave that
thread (so many errors) in as much as possible.  However, don't count on
just getting off because the name was misspelled or so on.

Good luck.

Rob
--
Rob Knauerhase           University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
knauer@cs.uiuc.edu       Dept. of Computer Science, Gigabit Study Group
"There's no place like $FC58!"

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: SCCA, Auto-X, and BMW 2002 question
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:32:23 GMT

In article <BvAJzD.Lv6@acsu.buffalo.edu> v087mxgb@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Shawn E Thompson) writes:
>I seem to recall the *old* BMW 2002's being rather smallish.

>I have an opportunity to purchase a 1979 2002 for *dirt*
>cheap. I am only interested in it as a hobby car, but can
>someone tell me when they enlarged the body style.

there is no such thing as a 1979 BMW 2002, at least not
in the US (probably not in europe, either.)  the line ended when
the first 3 series came out.

the only major change in the 2002 body was between 1973 and 1974, when
the car was switched over to heavy bumpers and square taillights.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:5922 sci.physics:16044
From: jsc52962@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey S. Curtis)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,sci.physics
Subject: Re: LIDAR workings (was Re: Laser Jammer Sighting?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:14:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bvpxo9.J9u
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <Bvps0r.5r2@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> teek@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Prateek Dwivedi) writes:
}If laser works on reflecting light.... then if I have a "buff" black car
}that absorbs most light...would I be stealth.

No.  They'll aim for your headlights, bumper, license plate...

}Another thought re: laser detectors.  Are they only working on deflection
}from atmosphere particles?  Or does it work on the laser hitting the car
}itself.  The latter would be too late, wouldn't it?

Yes, it would be too late.  The hope is that the cop guns somebody in
front of you, and you pick up some of that signal as it's bouncing around.

Jeff
-- 
Jeffrey S. Curtis sidewinder@uiuc.edu | "Resplendent and full again, they revel
 The Power of 37  free2207 at uiucvmd | in their role as self-appointed critics
"To be great is to be misunderstood." | of the establishment..."
"Insist on yourself - never imitate." |   -- INXS _Welcome to Wherever You Are_
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Tailgaters abound!
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:22:18 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1992Sep25.144621.25214@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>
>    It would be interesting if we could profile the pro/anti late
>merge people by how much driving they do on crowded highways at rush
>hour. I still shake my head in disbelief at the claim of one poster
>that he deliberately spends 10-20 minutes, twice a day, unnecessarily
>sitting in stop-and-go, because it's "fair". I wish I had that much
>time to waste.
>

I think you're referring to me...

I said when I have to, I wait. I deliberately miss rush hour.

I leave my house at 5:30 AM, I get to work at 6:15 AM, and I leave
work at 4:30 PM. I get around traffic by not participating in the
worst part of it. When I can't leave work, I just stay late (til
about 7:00 or so). There's always plenty to do.

As far as "I wish I had that much time to waste", I feel that my
life is much more important to me than anyone else's, as well.
It's not a matter of having the time to waste, it's a matter of
not running roughshod over the needs of others, so that I can
get on with all those important things I have to do.

The one guy (I forget who) had it right... You gain 1 or 2 minut-
es at 2 to 3 seconds' expense for every car you pass (depends on
number of cars, etc.). It's kind of like no-fault insurance. Ev-
erybody that waits patiently offsets your need to be ahead. I bet
if every driver you passed thought of it in those terms, you'd be
left sitting quite a while.

-- Mike

-------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion - not my employer's!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: If You Want to Speed, Become a Cop?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:19:41 GMT

An earlier poster said the best way to drive fast without fear of being
ticketed was to become a cop. I found out that even this is no panacea.
For some reason I don't understand, some police departments don't
cooperate (in this and other ways). If you're a cop in Illinois, and you
get pulled over for speeding in Wisconsin, it's best not to reveal the
fact that you're an Illinois cop. Apparently WI cops will ALWAYS write IL
cops, and vice versa. Same is true between IL and IA cops - "they write
us, we write them."  If you want to speed within your own jurisdiction,
that's great, but speed across that state line and you might be in more
danger than Joe Average. At least he has some chance of getting off with
just a warning.


Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Signalling one's desire to pass
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:39:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.195331.1563@linus.mitre.org>, ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
> 
>      Rick, at a guess, you drive a foreign car. In Germany "flash to
> pass" is a standard feature on any car with pretentions of performance
> - you hit the switch, and your headlights flash five times quickly.
> This is the standard signal used on multilane highways and to signal
> slower traffic up ahead to move out of your lane. It's only really
> used if you're in the fast lane of an autobahn.
> 
> 						Peter

American cars don't flash five times in rapid succession (I gather
that's what you are saying). Must be a European thing.  :-) 

Anyway, the problem in the USA is that it's generally considered
annoying by the driver being flashed.  What the netters are saying
is that it would be nice if non-netters would understand that
flashing (one's lights, that is ;-) to be an indication to move
over and not meant to be annoying.

Another use for flashing lights is to indicate to oncoming traffic
that a (potential) speed trap is ahead.  I think this is illegal too.

Doin' my best to annoy the shit outta anyone parked in the hammer lane.
-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving