From: fisher@sc2a.unige.ch
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Smiley faces
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:21:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland

In article <1992Apr9.200056.2161@unx.sas.com>, sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com
(Bruce Tindall) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.015300.10522@mcs.kent.edu>, dmcclory@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu
> (Daniel McClory) writes:
>>Smiley faces must be killed.
> 
> I agree, but it's probably too late.  :-(
> 
> Earlier writers of satire, sarcasm, and irony managed quite well
> without smileys.  No one at the time took Jonathan Swift's "A Modest
> Proposal" or Mark Twain's "The War Prayer" literally, even though
> neither author put a smiley after the text.

The fact is that european languages do have exclamation points and question
marks.  These are as `useless' as the `smiley faces'.  In english, german,
french, and many other languages, the question is implied by the gramatical
construct.  ``Do you like smileys.'' is a question even without the question
mark.  Of course ``You *like* smileys?'' needs the mark.  In this respect,
the coloquial french has abandoned the inversion of subject and verb for
questioning, which makes the question mark necessary - ``You are hungry?''
instead of ``Are you hungry?''.

The question marks and exclamation points, once accepted as indicators of
the tone of voice (i.e., reading aloud, you can render the same effect),
become so usefull that even modern chinese has adopted them.

I don't know english that well :-) but in french, the satire is allways
implied by the tense of the verbs or by a few ``points de suspension'',
as in ``I don't know english that well...''.  Note that the elipsis has a
leading space (as in ``this ... editor'' on UseNet usually ``this #@!?
editor'') while ``points de suspension'' have none.

The introduction of a ``point d'ironie'' or ``sarcasm mark'' for the
french language has often been discussed by the Academie Francaise, but
they never came up with a usable proposition.  The problem with the ``points
de suspension'' for sarcasm is that they are also used in poetry or as
rythmic indicators in dialogues (``Hmm... let me think... yes!... I'll
do it!'').  The ``smiley'' is in fact this ``point d'ironie'' - with even
more meaning carried by the two main variants `:-)' and `:-('.

The smiley would not be the only new typographic sign introduced this
century, far from it.  Just think about the copyright, registered and
trade mark signs.  As a reverse example, the swastika and the lightning-
shaped `SS' of nazi Germany had become accepted typographic signs - present
on any standard german typewriter.  Modern historians need to simulate them
when writing about that period...

(Bruce Tindall):
> Unfortunately, use of smileys after text that's supposed to be "funny"
> in some way has become so standard on the network that many network
> users assume that the *absence* of a smiley is a deliberate sign that
> the text is to be taken literally.  This assumption generates zillions
> of inappropriate "flames" every day.

There are also lawsuits about missing copyright and registered marks.

The same way teachers count a mistake for a missing question mark, even
if it's clear from the context that it is in fact a question.  You will
say ``but the smiley is colloquial!'', but since one writes on UseNet,
it is natural to use them.  As you said, this has become a standard.

One point many people are missing is that UseNet has become an international
platform, on which you can no longer (could you ever?) rely on perfect
understanding of english, especially when sarcasm is implied.  I have seen
a fight sarting with:
- Damn, the bar is closed tonight, and we don't have any more beer!
- Oh, really?
The american who said ``really?'' meant something like ``Oh, no!  This can't
be true!''.  The scott who made the initial statment understood ``I don't
give a damn!  What a boring thing to say!''.  It seems that ``Oh, really?''
is never used literally by Scotts...

For me, smileys have been a benediction.  How can I dare to write something
in english if I can't artificially smooth the reader into ``using a grain
of salt'' and remembering I might not be a native english speaker (with the
same dialect, what's more)?  It was also usefull to see smileys, especially
when recieving criticisms about my postings...   (I mean ``... postings :-)'')

(Bruce Tindall):
> Even worse, people who are used to this mode of reading, and who then
> encounter Swift or Twain, are likely to take those writings literally
> too.  Soon we'll have a whole generation or two of people who, if they've
> read those authors at all, will seriously believe that Swift really
> wanted to kill and eat babies, and that Twain really thought that we
> should call on God to help us kill innocent civilians in a war.

This is a silly statement.  If the smiley becomes accepted as one more
typographic sign - I think it's very likely - then readers of the next
generation will have to approach these authors like any other historical
author.  When reading Rousseau, for example, one needs to know the difference
between a ``narative style'' and an ``allegoric style'' - being marked
by the tense of the verbs.  It is obvious that present day students need
to be told, as this distinction is no longer in use.  When reading Swift
(if at all), I'm *very* likely to need comments in any case :-)  I see
no point in freezing ``proper'' english to the (written) language of a
Swift - or a Shakespeare, for that matter - especially when dealing with
computers on comp.misc :-)

What's more, you have to distinguish native english, native american, or
native australian dialects from international english...  I welcome the
spread of the smiley in international english, and would like to see it
(or the original ``point d'ironie'') in french.  True english, american,
australian, etc. speakers are of course free to continue without :-)

As a side note on this topic, it is of course nice to be born American:
one doesn't need to learn the international language - i.e. basic english.
On the other hand, it's quite hard to learn foreign languages - among with
there is (or will be) international english...

Long live the smiley :-)  at least on UseNet...

Markus Fischer    Dept of Anthropology, Geneva CH    fisher@sc2a.unige.ch
Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.sources.wanted,alt.sources.wanted,news.answers