HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT PROCLAMATION: THE FUTURE OF THE NET
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:18:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.122302.1@vm2.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vm2.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>This is a wonderful idea.  Now all we have to do is get 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes:
>
>(Please bear with me for the sake of those who missed the almighty KIBO's
>original proclamation):
>
>In article <BM0GGs.24r@world.std.com>, kibo@world.std.com (Leader Kibo) writes:
>
>> P R O C L A M A T I O N
>> ***********************
>
>> WHEREAS, the computer network named USENET has problems:
>
>> => It is cluttered with thousands of disorganized groups.
>
>> => It is difficult to use due to the various software interfaces.
>
>> => It is infected with viruses, especially in the .signatures.
>
>> THEREFORE, in an official and secret democratic vote, Kibo has been duly
>> elected LEADER OF THE NET.  To solve these problems, Leader Kibo has
>> decided to take bold measures, a brave new initiative, detailed herein.
>
>       [Death of USENET not PREDICTED, but rather DEMANDED appeared here]
>
>> The new network shall be named HAPPYNET, as it will be a Better Place.
>> Usenet is dead.  Long live HappyNet!
>
>But here's the part I think is the best.  I'm surprised that Greg Woods or
>Gene Spafford never thought of this...
>
>> New groups will also be added for maximum enjoyment.  The network would
>> be a very unfair place if only Leader Kibo were allowed to propose new
>> groups.  Instead, because Leader Kibo is benevolent and omnisagaciously
>> father-like, he will create WHATEVER GROUP YOU WANT (even, say,
>> megabozo.kibo.is.a.blenny!) provided that (a) you follow the Official
>> Procedure, filing all six copies of your request in triplicate and then
>> making four carbons of each, and (b) you pay Leader Kibo $100 for each
>> letter in the new group's name, and $500 for each period.
>
>This is the best idea I've ever seen advanced on USENET!

Here's a better one.  The previously stated idea would DISCRIMINATE
against poor people, and we can't have THAT on HappyNet!  Instead, I
will, when i recreate the net on the 15th, send out a newgroup for all
possible newsgroups whose names match the patterns *, *.*, *.*.*, and
*.*.*.* where the asterisk represents all combinations of one to eight
letters.

The resulting zillion groups will satisfy EVERYONE.

							-- K.

Newsgroups: news.admin
From: louis@tronix.SignalPath.on.ca (Louis Bertrand)
Subject: (yet another) sendsys alternative
Newsgroups: news.admin
Date: 5 Apr 92 17:36:06 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Signal Path Designs

There seems to be a wish to map the net on an
occasional basis (2-3 months), and the sendsys
mechanism is not a Good Thing anymore.

The uucp maps provide the information needed
to map the uucp net for mailing, and the distribution
of maps occurs regularly via the *.maps newsgroups.

I propose that sendsys and senduuname be permanently disabled
and replaced it with a regular publishing of the sys files 
in a new newsgroup.  If the volume is too large, the sysfile 
newsgroup could be made regional (e.g. ont.sysfiles, tx.sysfiles).

Publishing a file that needs to maintained anyway (for 
Cnews to work) sounds (to me at least) like a lot
less effort than panicking whenever somebody else
figures out how to forge a control message (as comp.virus
and this newsgroup show, there is no correlation between
clever and responsible).

This publication mechanism would also allow non-Cnews
sites to participate in the mapping by publishing the
Cnews equivalent of their system info.

Thanks for you time,
  -- Louis

--
Louis Bertrand   *   Lynden, Ontario, Canada   *   (416) 648-8066
Signal Path Designs (Analog - Digital - Audio - Embedded uCs)
louis@SignalPath.on.ca (new -- may not work yet)
louis%tronix@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (old -- still works fine)
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: schnoebe@convex.com (Eric Schnoebelen)
Subject: Re: Automatic disclaimers on outbound postings from a corporation
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: USENET news support, CONVEX Computer Corp, Richardson, Tx. USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:57:18 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes:
- In article <1992Apr16.032526.17951@rootgroup.com> davehieb@magi.rootgroup.com (David Hieb) writes:
- >
- >i'm looking for the best way to automatically incorporate a corporate
- >disclaimer into all news articles that are posted from within an
- >organization.
- >...
- >can anyone recommend a good procedure?
- 
-   Yes.  I recommend you forget the whole idea.
- 
-   Anybody reading usenet should already be assuming that postings are the
- individual poster's rantings and ravings.  Do you have to rub it in?

	Agree'd, but we installed it on the paranoia of the corporate
lawyer.  With the US's current litigous society, it was felt that
everyones postings had to be explicitly disclaimed, for fear that a
judge may declare them implicitly claimed by the company.

	It was explained to me that anyone as a company employee can be
taken as speaking for the company, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
So we explicitly state otherwise.

	The adding of the disclaimer raised a small brew-ha-ha here,
but as soon as the newsreaders were modified to supress it, every one
was happy...

-- 
Eric Schnoebelen		eric@cirr.com		schnoebe@convex.com
    "Science is to computer science as hydrodynamics is to plumbing."
	    - Stan Kelly-Bootle, _Computer Language_, Oct 90
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: I've forged a cancel of a sendsys
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<fLg9WML@quack.sac.ca.us> <1992Apr1.221318.29293@mp.cs.niu.edu>
	<fLnpwIM@quack.sac.ca.us> <1992Apr7.134642.16798@yang.earlham.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:11:34 GMT

 Allen> == Allen Smith <allens@yang.earlham.edu> 

 Allen> 	2: What if a uucp site WANTS a sendsys performed?
 Allen> Admittedly somewhat unlikely, but the possibility is there.
 Allen> Perhaps a solution would be for the uucp site to post something
 Allen> to news.admin to tell people that the sendsys is valid, and the
 Allen> reasons why. If the reasons seem odd, mail the person and hold
 Allen> the sendsys message in the meantime.

If they really want it, they can ask for someone on the Internet (or
with a domain address) to bounce it to them (their feed site is probably
a good candidate here).

The major problem with the "don't send to sendsys@site.UUCP" scheme is
that there are a fair number of MXed domains out there; a friend of mine
got sendsys-bombed a while back, and though he was on a domainified
site, it wasn't a "real" Internet site.

Of course, the "cancel it for a UUCP site" could be read as "cancel it
for anything that doesn't have an A record" but then we start to get
hairy.  It is, at least, much easier to filter out mail to
sendsys@uucpsite at the host than it is to filter it for randomuser@uucpsite.
--
Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    ECONOMIC OBSERVATIONS DEPARTMENT
System Manager & Postmaster     |  "There's always something going out of
Electronic Frontier Foundation  |      business in Central Square."
+1 617 864 0665  NIC: [CKD1]    |   -Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita@eff.org>
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.software.b
From: schnoebe@convex.com (Eric Schnoebelen)
Subject: Re: A different approach to sendsys.
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: USENET news support, CONVEX Computer Corp, Richardson, Tx. USA
Distribution:  world
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:28:10 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

reggers@julian.uwo.ca (Reg Quinton) writes:
- I've been thinking about Felix's proposal and believe we can accomplish the
- same thing in an easier fashion:
- 
- 1. If you want to flood the net with sys files why not have everyone post
-    a monthly article in news.config that gives their sys file. This can
-    be at the system managers discretion -- in the same way that disabling
-    sendsys is. Someone might choose to archive those postings.

	Surely this is overkill for the few people who really need the
data.  And it is certain to be out of date at any time.  

	Who would make sure that each site posts the current sys file
to this newsgroup?  If it is not automatic, it probably won't get
done.

- 2. If someone wants to know the network topology why not just scan all
-    the Path: records that you have on your system and leave everyone else
-    alone? Surely all the information is already on your system.

	I think I already answered this one once. :-)

	If a site is a leaf, or near leaf that only posts once every
other blue moon, none of the rest of the net is going to have any
postings with it in the path.  A large percentage of the net is going
to be excluded from such a mapping.  The only sites that are (almost)
guarenteed to show up are the top five or ten sites on the net, eg,
uunet, cs.utexas.edu, apple, zaphod.math.ohio-state.edu (is that
correct?), etc.  And honestly, alot of our news here doesn't go
through any of those sites, although we connect to the first two.

	Nor is the path line going to provide information on which
newsgroups and distributions a site might get.  And this is useful
information for someone who is trying to help manage a region of the
net, and assure that every one gets all the news they want (I am doing
just such a task for Dallas/Ft Worth, Tx, USA.)

	My two cents worth,
		Eric

-- 
Eric Schnoebelen		eric@cirr.com		schnoebe@convex.com
    Churchill's Commentary on Man: Man will occasionally stumble over the
    truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.software.b
From: reggers@julian.uwo.ca (Reg Quinton)
Subject: Re: A different approach to sendsys.
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:55:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.232810.3841@news.eng.convex.com>, 
	schnoebe@convex.com (Eric Schnoebelen) writes:
|> - 1. If you want to flood the net with sys files why not have everyone post
|> -    a monthly article in news.config that gives their sys file. This can
|> -    be at the system managers discretion -- in the same way that disabling
|> -    sendsys is. Someone might choose to archive those postings.
|> 
|> 	Surely this is overkill for the few people who really need the
|> data.  And it is certain to be out of date at any time.  

Overkill? Are the UUCP maps overkill? If it is useful information then it's not
overkill and should be provided to the net at large. If it isn't useful
information then why are we concered at all?

In any case, who are these few people who need the data? If we knew who needed
this (in the same way that I know who needs arbitron and pathsurvery data) then
we could mail them our sys file. They could collate and make a monthly posting
-- if they're not willing to do that, then I'm not willing to give them my sys
file.

|> 	Who would make sure that each site posts the current sys file
|> to this newsgroup?  If it is not automatic, it probably won't get
|> done.

Given the number of sites who are disabling sendsys we're moving to a situation
where the system manager decides not to provide the information. So this isn't
a difference in kind. This also speaks to the issue of "being out of date" --
if people don't provide the information then it's out of date.

|> - 2. If someone wants to know the network topology why not just scan all
|> -    the Path: records that you have on your system and leave everyone else
|> -    alone? Surely all the information is already on your system.
|> 
|> 	I think I already answered this one once. :-)

I understand that this doesn't cover everything, my claim is more "what do you
need this for?" I.e the distincition between theory and practice.

|> 	Nor is the path line going to provide information on which
|> newsgroups and distributions a site might get.  And this is useful
|> information for someone who is trying to help manage a region of the
|> net, and assure that every one gets all the news they want (I am doing
|> just such a task for Dallas/Ft Worth, Tx, USA.)

Uh... you decide that I get what I want by a sendsys message? I don't
understand how that could work -- I would have thought it's a decision I make
since I know what I want and you don't.
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Sendsys police
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:53:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: yang.1992Apr7.135314.16799
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <1992Apr3.153524.26668@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu>, dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
> 
>      This is my idea of how to handle the sendsys problem. Hoping to
> get some responce, and not be drowned out in the current flood of 
> discussion, I'll list the benifits first.
> 

>     My idea is to form a Sendsys Police force. This would be a group
> of experienced news people who would take responsability to watch for
> sendsys bombs, and to forge cancels for them. Not only this, bu they 
> would also send e-mail to the other SP's, who would issue cancels from
> thier sites. This way, there would be a good chance of stopping the
> distribution of the control message.
>      Alternatly, the SP could issue forged articles with the same
> message ID so that the bomb would be rejected by sites. This might work
> better. If SP all over issued an article with the same ID, it would spread
> more rapidly than the bomb.
> 
>     Let me say that I don't know if these ideas are feasible. If there is
> some technical reason why this won't work, I'll stand corrected.
> 
>     Some more points:
>  
> 1) We would need police who are logged on enough to catch a bomb 
> within a few hours of release. Overnight may be a problem, but such is
> life.
> 
> 2) Real sendsys's will go through. People who want to execute the command
> could write to the SP, or post to this group before executing. The SP 
> would only cancel things that were obvious forgeries.
> 
> 3) The SP could deter the use of the bombs. BY being interested, the SP
> may investigate all sendsys bombs, and identify at least the site where
> it came from. People won't risk being fired, expelled, or having thier
> feed cut just to send a bomb.
> 
>    I think this is a good idea, and I'd like to see if others thik so
> too.
> 
	However, it has the problem of having an instituted group of 
authorities. Usenet, at present, is that very rare and nice thing, a 
workable anarchy.
	An alternate idea: achnowledge that any sysop has the authority to 
hold up a sendsys message, and, if no notification has been posted to 
news.admin or whatever group seems most suitable, send a cancel message. 
This takes no changes to all of Usenet (a practical impossibility), and a 
small number of admins  (esp. if at the top-flowthrough sites) could make 
quite a difference.
	It would help, admittedly, if updates of the various news-handling 
programs had an automatic system for bringing sendsys/etc messages to the 
attention of the sysop, and for delaying sendsys/etc. message 
implementation long enough for a cancel message to reach the site.
	-Allen
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:52:04 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

>axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:

>> The people who will post to the new group want it to be rec.arts.manga;
>> the people who won't want it to be rec.arts.comics.manga. 

>Stupid assumption; I'd subscribe to rec.arts.comics.manga the day it was
>created here, and I'm the person arguing loudest for its creation under
>rec.arts.comics.

    Yes the assumption he made was not a very good one. But I though I
was arguing the loudest ;->.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:53:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.154128.1296@cco.caltech.edu>, tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>> >Don't you think a proposer of the group which exists, should have some
>> >criterion to evaluate under what circumstances a revote should be 
>> > conducted ?
>> 
>> No.  And neither do most proposers/creators of a group.
>> 
>> Ask Roger Noe.  He was instrumental in the creation of rec.arts.startrek
>> during the Great Renaming, but he never claimed this gave him special
>> dispensation to decide how and when a split should take place.

>Pardon me for my ignorance but I didn't quite understand what you mean here.

Ask away.

>Do you mean to say that I should not go forward with the straw poll
>to make a recommendation whether a new vote is required ?

Yes.  That's exactly what I mean.  Your approval is neither relevant nor
required, and your persistent insistence that you somehow *own* this group
is doing nothing but alienating potential voters.  (For instance, should you
continue this path, I would seriously consider voting against the group 
merely to illustrate an example for those who would follow in your 
footsteps.  I've nothing against the group in particular, but this kind of
warping of the voting process should not be given any leeway.)

I hope that clears things up.

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: news.announce.newsgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.novell
From: kwang@hermes.calpoly.edu <kwang@nike.calpoly.edu>
Subject: RFD:  comp.sys.novell reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Calpoly
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:12:19 GMT

This is a Request For Discussion for the reorganization of comp.sys.novell
into several sub-groups.

Suggested new group names:
	comp.sys.novell.2x
	comp.sys.novell.3x
	comp.sys.novell.programming
	comp.sys.novell.misc

Status:

	All groups will be unmoderated.

Charter:

Proposal 1: comp.sys.novell.2x

	Discussions on the installation, upgrading, and maintenence of
	Novell 2.x networks.  This can include discussions on printers,
	user management, WANs, protocols, NFS, interfacing with Unix
	machines and the Internet, bugs, quirks, anonymous ftp sources,
	and more.

Proposal 2: comp.sys.novell.3x

	Same as proposal 1, except it will be for Novell version 3.x networks.

Proposal 3: comp.sys.novell.programming

	There has been in increasing amount of message that are of
	interest only to programmers who work with Novell's NLMs,
	NetWare API, VAPs, and other NetWare related programs.

Proposal 4: comp.sys.novell.misc

	This group should cover any inconsistencies left by the
	previous three groups.

Rationale:

	The comp.sys.novell newsgroup's traffic has been steadily
	increasing, and with the added interest of programmers the past
	few months, the central group has become cluttered with several
	disjointing threads of discussion.  

	Since I believe that NetWare 386 3.x differs from 2.x, it
	warrants the separation of newsgroups.

Details:

	Discussion to start now (early april, before the 15th), until
	May 15, at which time voting will begin.  Voting will begin on
	the midnight PST leading into May 15th, ending 1 month later on
	the midnight PST leading into June 15th.  Please do NOT attempt
	to vote before this date.  Voting procedures will be posted at
	a later date.

	PLEASE post all follow-up articles to news.groups!  This
	message will by default post to news.groups.
-- 
   - Kevin Wang
This is your local station identification, on the hour, every hour...
kwang@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu, kwang@hermes.calpoly.edu
kwang@joule.elee.calpoly.edu, or kwang@gauss.elee.calpoly.edu
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:14:36 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.manga is anomalous and misleading.
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
 >  If I was to buy some mange in this town (placed in non-english country)
 >I would go down to shop called "comics".

In Japan, it'd probably be a bookstore or newsagent.  (As opposed
to a comic shop.)

(Never heard of anyone buying mange, BTW. :-)


keepin' the link down regularly,
--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:02:08 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.221126.14860@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>>    Why wait? Why not help make the move to rec.arts.comics.misc that
>>much more probable by putting the manga group where it belongs, in the
>>UseNet hierarchy for all comics related discussion: rec.arts.comics.*.

>This is known as "begging the question".

>In case you haven't noticed, the claim that it belongs in rec.arts.comics.* is
>_exactly_ the point which is at issue here.  It does not make a whole lot of
>sense to use such a claim to prove your point, since you are merely assuming
>the answer you wish to prove.

    No, that is not what I was saying. I'm not trying to prove anything.
I don't really need to. The question at hand isn't why should the group
be called r.a.c.manga it is why should it not be called r.a.c.manga.
These are 2 different things. The actual burdon of proof is on those who
say that r.a.c.manga is not appropriate, for if they fail to prove this
then the vote for r.a.m has little chance of passing. What I was tring
to say above is why should you wait for the creation of r.a.c.misc when
the creation of a discussion group of this size within the existing
r.a.c.* hierarchy would make the move to a .misc group almost
inevitable. Especially if all of the people who voted for r.a.c.manga
were to support the creation of r.a.c.misc.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | 
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | "DON'T TOUCH IT!! It's the History Eraser
 Mac Database Developer     |  Button, you fool!"  -- Ren
 Dartmouth Medical School   |
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:12:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <1992Apr9.184028.1248@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>
>In fact I see a move to
>r.a.c.misc to be in the very near future. And the creation of a new
>group in the r.a.c.* hierarchy, especially one that is so well defined
>as manga could actuially make the name change that muich more viable to
>the regular readers of r.a.c. 

I thought the status of the name change was more "wait and see"... Scanning
through r.a.comics, I didn't get that impression, but I could be wrong here.


--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems
Mountain View, CA                               "Oboete imasu ka..."