HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: L'Chaim
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:24:28 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

***********************************************************************
L'CHAIM                   ISSUE # 227                       PART 4 OF 8
***********************************************************************
                          WHAT'S  NEW?
***********************************************************************
        MOSHIACH BILLBOARDS At 4  points along Route 17  in Upstate New
York billboards announce the imminence of Moshiach and encouarge people
to "Be A  Part of  It."     Bumper  stickers with the  same design  are
available  from the  "International  Campaign to  Help Bring  Moshiach"
office and  can be  ordered by  sending $1 per  bumper sticker  to 1408
President St. Brooklyn,  NY 11213.  L'CHAIM  BOOKS    Bound  volumes of
the fourth year of L'Chaim are available for $25 plus $3 shipping. Send
checks payable to LYO to: L'Chaim  Book, 1408 President St., Bklyn,  NY
11213.  Books  from  the  third  year  are  still  available.    SUMMER
SPECTACULAR     Once again this  summer Tzivos Hashem is sponsoring the
Summer Spectacular, an evening  of fun and entertainment for  the whole
family. This special  event, on Sunday, August 23,  will include a live
concert  by Uncle  Moishy and the  Mitzva Men and  Avraham Fried. There
will also be a  miniature circus and fireworks. The  Summer Spectacular
starts at  7:00 p.m. at  the Monticello  Raceway in the  Catskills. For
more info call Tzivos Hashem at (718) 467-6630.  MYSTICISM BY THE SEA  
"All  aboard--A journey  into Jewish  Mysticism" is  how the  Wednesday
evening  discussions at the South Street Seaport are billed. From  8:00
p.m.  - 9:30 p.m. at the  end of Pier 17 facing  the river blankets and
refreshments are put out and Rabbi  Eli Cohen of Chabad at N.Y.U. leads
the journey. The discussion  is sponsored by Beir Miriam  and continues
through Labor Day. For more info call (718) 467-5519.
From: zmood@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Access to Israel line or other news
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:32:05 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

G-day Ah I don't see too many Australians in the correspondence list.
Basically, I've heard of such things as Israel-line and Kesherline and I would
like to know how to get access to them, if that is possible. 

Your little Aussie Battler Daniel Zmood

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Reform law versus guidelines
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 03:25:00 GMT

In article <56954@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

Quoting me:
>
>>Let me take this a step farther.  Fifteen years ago my wife attended a talk
>>given by the then assistant rabbi of the major Reform synagogue in Denver.
>>(He's now the senior rabbi.)  The topic was the Reform position on kashrut.
>>He said there were a number of valid reasons that a Reform Jew might have
>>for observing kashrut.  Among them:  Respect for other family members, an
>>affection for tradition, as a means for sanctifying one's life, etc etc.
>>Many reasons, all of which would gain the approval of any of us.  But, he
>>said, what makes Reform distinctive is the one reason which a Reform Jew
>>would NOT use; namely, a belief that G-d said one must.
>
>>I think this very neatly captures the liberal position on the subject.
>
>I do not accept this interpretation.  There is the serious question of
>whether God said this, or whether those who wrote the Torah thought that
>was what God wanted them to write.  If the Torah is the literal word of
>God, then we should not have difficulties in reconciling much of it with
>our secular knowledge, especially if one accepts the position that both
>the first commandment in Genesis, and also the Eden story, explicitly
>command us to learn the absolute laws of God, those which govern the
>operation of the universe.  This has been argued here, and the arguments
>need not be repeated.
>
>Even in the section on kashruth, there are statements which presumably
>were according to the rather poor biological observations of that time,
>but which we know now to be false.  I claim that this necessarily should
>cause one to question just what was from God, and what was tribal taboo
>or based on similar grounds.  There is no other information on this, so
>we have to use our own soul-searching, and our own attempts to communicate
>with God, to help arrive at what is wanted of us.
>-- 

I completely fail to understand Herman's post.  Far from disagreeing with
me, he seems to be confirming exactly what I said, which was that the ONE
reason for observing kashrut which the Reform will NOT accept is: G-d said
to.



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
From: davis@reaumur.ilog.fr (Harley Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:49:10 GMT
Organization: ILOG S.A., Gentilly, France
In-reply-to: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 12 Aug 92 18:52:50 GMT


In article <8eWJs2m00WB5885m0R@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:

   Harley Davis writes:
   The kind of generalization and re-particularization you are suggesting
   is the root of the great tragedies of the 20th century.  It's a shame
   you haven't learned this simple lesson.

      Often you have to generalize in order to perceive the real movement
      of a group, as a whole.

   The problem is not just the generalization but the particularization
   to individuals.
   I say:
   That's not a problem.  It is much easier to get to know someone
   when talking to them one on one.  It takes more knowledge to
   understand what are the attitudes of a larger group, as a
   whole.  Not using generalization means loosing knowledge, as even
   strict science has lots of exceptions, yet we have to learn first
   about the general case in order to understand why and how there are
   exceptions.  You can't disregard a generality because there are
   exceptions.  It would be a total laissez faire in regard to
   synthetizing knowledge.
   In Europe such generalizations are common.
   Rad

You are completely losing track of this discussion.  I am not arguing
against historical analysis, just killing or incarcerating people
because of supposed faults of a group they belong to.

-- Harley Davis
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nom: Harley Davis			ILOG S.A.
net: davis@ilog.fr			2 Avenue Gallie'ni, BP 85
tel: (33 1) 46 63 66 66			94253 Gentilly Cedex, France
From: unterspa@novavax.UUCP (Diane Unterspan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Multiple Hechshers
Summary: candling eggs
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:26:54 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

In article <1992Aug6.005309.10800@cas.org>, rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:
> In article <1992Aug5.225945.1701@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu ((rmt5
> |> 
> |> "Candled" eggs?  I don't understand.  What does it mean to "candle" an
> |> egg?
>  
> Candling is the passing of eggs in front of a bright light (originally a
> candle, hence the terminology) in order to see if there is a blood spot inside.
actually the reason you candle an egg is to see if a chick is
developing. Candling will not necessarily determine if there is a
blood spot, which is why my mother taught me to open an egg in it's
own bowl  and if it is clear add it to the bowl of other eggs. 
Diane
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: God on Earth?
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 06:36:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.044616.3935@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
> I am posting this on behalf of someone who does not have access to netnews:
> 
> "This is a question from a naive but curious enthusiast. What is the 
> position, or positions, in Judaism on the role of God on earth? Has he 
> washed his hands off of it, so nature runs like clockwork according to 
> physical laws, and therefore we are the master of our destiny? If so, 
> what is the basis of our relationship to Him? On the other hand, if 
> nature strongly depends on advise from Him on how to bend the ``latest 
> physical law'', and on what to do next, why is there then so much grief 
> on earth, including a recent six million dead? Or, perhaps a combination 
> of both, nature (body) governed by universal timeless laws, and mind (soul)
> in constant interaction with Him? I realize that this is not exactly a 
> yes/no topic! Rather, I am looking for references, pointers, general 
> clarifications, or any insight you might offer." 
> 
> 
>

I suggest "The way of G-d", by R. Moshe Chaim Luzzatto, published
by Feldheim in English translation.
 
Regards

Hannu Toyryla
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Some cute definitions ...
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:56:16 GMT

I heard a cute definition the other day, which I thought my net friends
might enjoy.

Definition of a  "fanatic"   - anyone to the right of you
   "       "  an "apikorus"  - anyone to the left  of you

For those who don't know, an "apikorus" might be loosely translated as
a heretic.

Hayim Hendeles
From: gene@cs.bu.edu (Gene Itkis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:57:16 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: gene@csd


In an earlier article, I believe Adolpho says that rather than helping "jews
like Shamir, Sharon, Begin or those who collaborated with the Nazis in
concentration camps" he'd prefer helping non-jews like Mandela (and others, I
won't mention). I am just wondering if Mandela that Adolpho has in mind is the
infamous child molester and the inventor of "necklacing" (the practice of
burning a person alive by putting a tire on his/her (the one I actually saw on
PBS was indeed a woman) neck and splashing it with gasoline). If yes, I wonder
about Adolpho's reason(s) for such preferences.
-- 
 ---
	Gene Itkis		(gene@cs.bu.edu)
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Re; Should a Jew settle in Israel
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:52:19 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <199208171405.AA26822@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>
>list of  mitzvot, ANY  of which if  a wife refuses  to perform  she is
>considered a moredet (rebellious) and thus should be divorced?
>
>Miqveh?   Keeping a kasher home?   Settling in Israel?


HMMMM.... that's a good question.  Luckily I haven't been faced with it.

(Yet... these Texas women are TOUGH on change!)




-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:59:59 GMT

In article <ALLEN.92Aug13134956@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>What you want is one thing, what you need is perhaps something else.
>When someone is damaging themselves, even unintentionally, we all have
>a responsibility to help them.  Suppose, for example, someone was
>doing something you knew was dangerous, but that they didn't believe
>was dangerious (such as carrying some highly radioactive material, for
>example).  I think you would agree that it is worth being called an
>ignoramous and worse to protect them from themselves.  Why do you get
>so angry, then, about the Rabbis trying to protect your Neshama?

This argument proves too much.  (Apply it to Christian missionaries, for
instance.
--
I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the writings of Socrates.
    -- Ed Nilges

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bringing up Baby
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:22:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <1992Aug13.204331.4481@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <LGOLD.92Aug12160000@callahans.Cadence.COM> lgold@callahans.Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold) writes:
>>My brother's girlfriend just found out she's pregnant.
>>
>>Since she's Catholic, she's (of course) going through with the
>>pregnancy, and they're getting married.
>>
>>HE, however, is Jewish.
>>
>>The two have agreed that while she doesn't want to convert, they want
>>to raise the children as Jewish.  He wants to do a "conversion at
>>birth" since the children won't be born Jewish.
>>
>>1. Is this doable?
>>2. If not, how can they raise the children as Jews?
>
>The best advice is to see your local reform or conservative rabbi.
>
>
>Art Kamlet 

Are you implying that Orthodox Rabbis are not representing a "valid"
approach to Judaism? You have always been the one championing equal
rights, and (coming from you) the omission of Orthodox seems somewhat
odd.
From: htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Some cute definitions ...
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:29:52 GMT
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.

In article <4122@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.005616.613623@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>>I heard a cute definition the other day, which I thought my net friends
>>might enjoy.
>>
>>Definition of a  "fanatic"   - anyone to the right of you
>>   "       "  an "apikorus"  - anyone to the left  of you
>>
>>For those who don't know, an "apikorus" might be loosely translated as
>>a heretic.                    ^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Hayim Hendeles
> 
> The origin of the term is: Helenistic philosopher having that name.
> 
>
The philosopher was called Epicuros. His followers, called Epicureans,
had a materialistic view of world and held all worldly enjoyments
in high esteem. I think this accounts for his name being adopted as
a term for one kind of heretic.

Hannu 
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hannu Toyryla            htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Nokia Telecommunications (Nokia Cellular Systems, Private Mobile Radio)
P.O.B  77    SF-02610 ESPOO FINLAND
TEL	+ 358 0 5118366      FAX	+ 358 0 5118400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:59:42 GMT

In article <57250@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>If every Jew settled in Israel, even kicking out all the goyim in
>Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank would not be adequate.  The limits
>are quite real, and we cannot count on manna.
>	...
>
>Herman Rubin

Why stop at Gaza, and the West Bank ?		 :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:51:38 GMT
 <56951@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <1992Aug17.192946.17526@njitgw.njit.edu>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.03

In <1992Aug17.192946.17526@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)  wrote:
# So what is the Law to be based on?  The whims of the current
# generation?  The USA is based on this, and it's crumbling after only
# 200 years.  The Jewish people have survived without a kingdom, without
# a land, and wihout a ruler for thousands of years thanks to this
# tradition which you consider useless in interpreting the Law.
# 
# Do you really believe that the Jewish people could survive another
# 3000+ years with your "enlightened scholorly" way of interpreting
# religion?

  This is only a useful argument if everyone agrees that Jews should
  survive as a distinct people.  All in all, I doubt that most
  American Jews really care.  The rule seems to be that they have
  just enough regard for their ancestors to maintain a purely nominal
  identification.  Beyond that, Judaism is too much bother.

  (No, I'm not describing myself!)
---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                    dcs@witsend.uucp ---
--- And if that doesn't work:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Breaking a Glass in the Marriage Ceremony - Why?
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:51:53 GMT

In <1992Aug14.160102.1823@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gadi@cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman) writes:

>I recentely saw the Italian film Meditrania.  In the film they showed 
>Christian wedding (Catholic? Greek Orthodox?), in which they also broke a 
>glass. 

I think that the Greeks break plates as a sign of celebration.  This
might be why they broke something at the wedding.  Of course if they
shouted the Greek phrase for "Mazel Tov" afterwards ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very *** gazelle.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:41:56 GMT

In article <57394@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu
(Herman Rubin) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.131900.23543@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>Does this mean there is a tradition of logic by now?  If so, will it be
>>overthrown? Can it?

>Not if anything precise is to be obtained.  The part of logic needed is
>rather small; the principles can be stated in one page.  

>This is the power of the grammatical structure called mathematics.  So
>much comes out of so little, and it seems to fit the real world quite
>well--almost too well, in fact.  Some philosophers have declared that
>God must be a mathematician because of this.

Does anyone else see this as very near the elevation of logic to
near-god-like status?  Does it seem close to avodah zara?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Supplemental v Day Schools
Reply-To: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:31:57 GMT

D.C.

YOur insights have truth.   I can easily name five who are 
quite observant without much Jewish knowledge pre adulthood.

I agree that many, perhaps most, parents in supplemental school
do not want their children to push for a more committed
Jewish life style.  It is a bad system, but, in some cases
getting better.  There are more and more non-orthodox
day schools which present an alternative-but committed Jewish
life style.  

It is easy to argue, but not effectively fight, against the
indifferent parents of supplemental schools.  All too many of
the Observant sector present a life style that has little or
no appeal on the quick examination.

The issue needs to be defined not in where one is at, but in the
direction of movement.

REform of 5750 is not the reform of 5720.  It is not only a
(strike that start)   It is not an excuse to be ignorant, but
in many cases a sincere search for making Judiasm a force
in Tikun olam....

There are corners of progress, that with luck, will let us avoid
a Jewish Yugoslovia in this country.....

Shalom

Julian Yudelson
JEYBBU@RITVAX
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: simic@pollux.ccsf.caltech.edu (Petar Simic)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 05:44:40 GMT

	Josip Loncaric writes:

>>>

In article <4eWn0f600WB6AQlVQE@andrew.cmu.edu> Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Josip Loncarcic writes:
>
>My claims are based on the few useful studies which were done on this
>matter, where both Serbian and Croatian historians compared a wide
>variety of available information, such as name lists, demographic
>studies, official government documents, etc., and came up with
>essentially the same conclusions.  I've reported those conclusions
>from a reference by a Serbian historian, but I could quote Croatian
>sources which are essentially similar.
>
>
>
>I say:
>With all due respect to the knowledge of the historians you go on to
>quote, generally the professionalism of historians from Eastern
>Europe is dobted.  Their works are regarded with suspicion, and for
>good reason, many were recognized as being simply part of the propaganda
>of the governments of those totalitarian Communist/Socialist states.
>Rad

 Yes and no.  Yes, some Eastern European historians are simply 
 mouthpieces of their governments; and no, not all of them are
 so unprofessional.  

 To say that some historians simply rehash official propaganda lines
 does NOT mean that East European history is completely plastic... 

	Josip

<<<

	You quoted one Serbian historian (Kocovic) who is not the main-stream
 by any means, and who is offten used by Croatian revisionists because he
 is Serb, yet, he wrote a book in which he estimates number of Serbs and
 Jews exterminated to be considerably lower than most of the other Yugoslav
 or foreign Holocaust schoolars - so, he must be right. His book, however,
 is realy an exception rather than the main-stream, and this should be made
 clear, otherwise, it looks as an attempt to manipulate the uninformed.  

	To illustrate this, I would list here just few of the important
 Yugoslavian historians who studied the Holocaust for many years, and who
 got to the same conclusion as the most Western historians (which are,
 generally speaking, less biased). They consider the Kocovic's estimates
 as simply *wrong*: dr. V. Djuretic, dr. Dedijer, dr. Bulatovic, 
 dr. L. Kostic, etc. Each of these people is a serious schoolar, and they
 have used in their studies many independent sources, documents, testimonies,
 statistical and demographic data, etc. over the many years, and each have
 written several books on the Holocaust in Balkans and in particular in the
 independent state of Croatia. I know that dr. Kostic's book, "Holocoust in
 the independent state of Croatis", is available in english, but I do not
 know for the others.

	---------------------

	Petar.

		 

  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish