From: ssankara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara)
Subject:  CASTE ! CASTE ! CASTE !
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:07:53 GMT




In article <1992Nov17.192205.28513@ultb.isc.rit.edu> akn8257@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
 writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.060851.28671@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ssankara@magnus
.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>It is my belief that reservation system is one of the main reasons
>>>for our poor work ethics.
>>>
>>>- Arun.
>>
>>
>>
>>Mr. Arun,
>>
>>What is the basis for this statement.  I totally condemn this attitude either

>>as ignorance or arrogance.  It is like questioning the ethics of the lower
>>castes.
>>
>>Please, enlighten me about the ethics prevailing in the so-called meritorious

>>institutes like IIT.  I spent 6 years in IITM and I know what is the value fo
r
>>ethics and merit.  Except very few professors (you can count), most of them
>>waste the time and money of this nation.  They do not spend enough time
>
>Well, I don't know much of what goes on inside IIT but I consider it as the
>finest educational institute in Tamilnaadu much much better than the one I
>studied. It would take a mile long if I write about what goes on there.
>
>Also, I did not intend any disrespect to Backward classes as I belong to one.
>I consider it is the a great disgrace to our self respect that the people
>think we need a reservation in the colleges and after that a reservation for
>jobs and then a reservation for promotions rather than to compete with the
>others. Just the providing scholarships and facilities like free books are
>enough. Anything more than that is discrimination.
>
>My opinion is based on this. I worked for more than two years in a private
>company which supplies structurals for BHEL, NTPC and Southern Structurals
>Limited. Engineers from all of these companies would come to inspect our
>supplies. I am supposed to offer the samples and conduct a quality check for
>them in their presence.
>
>While the people from BHEL and NTPC were very reasonable and were not
>interested anything other than the quality(to a reasonable extent). The
>Engineers from SSL were unbelievable and impossible. They would not come
>to our lab and they would go home but on the record they will be inspecting
>in our lab. A envelope from our company will make the goods passable.
>
>If you are not surprised by this wait for this. Once an Engineer from SSL
>didn't even know the formula for the surface area of a cylinder. To my surpris
e
>he did not know the formulas for the area of a circle or perimeter of a circle
.
>He was shouting in our office that we are all trying to cheat him, later we
>learned that the reason is the envelope didn't reach him by time. As soon as
>he left there was a big burst of laughter.
>
>You should have guessed the difference between BHEL and SSL by now. I am not
>saying that BHEL is the best managed company in the world, in fact it runs in
>loss more than its profit. But if you want to know about SSL, it does not
>even make enough money to pay their employees and each month, the state govt.
>has to pay their salary. I am only saying reservation is one of the, I
>repeat, one of the Major reasons for this.(Also it is a monopolised
>government organisation which is one of the other but so is BHEL)
>
>- Arun.



Arun,  you first write somethng which is very subjective and then come up with
modifications of your statements with another subjective statement.

You are confusing two issues here.

1.  The general degeneracy of working ethics and degradation of values in our
society.  That is prevalent in almost all the government
institutes/depts/companies though the difference may vary from one dept to
another largely.

     Central govt - Accounts general office, LIC, Income tax,
Customs Central excise, Nationalized banks, BHEL, ONGC etc etc. will have
diiferent working ethics.  There are a number of reasons for the differences.
For example,  AGS office is worse than the state govt offices.  Banks are mcuh
better than even many of the private companies ( I am not talking about the
politicians and loan mela issues which come from the misuse of banks by the
central govt). Similarly others also have very wide differences in work ethics.

     State govt - Taluk office, Revenue dept, schools, Electricity Board, TWAD,
Bus corporations etc.  Again very large differences in work ethics.  For
example, bus corporations are having much better work ethics than many of the
central govt depts.  But Taluk office or TWAD board are the worst in work
ethics (remember corruption by the officers to peons are also different in
different depts no matter central or state).

     What you say is this difference and I agree with you.

2.  Reservation issue - Whether the caste based reservation does prevent the
genral work ethics of all the establishements.  I say 'no' to this.

     Again  persons coming through reservations also are of two types. Some
with good work ethics (many reasons, good nature, family background, religious
faith, personal motivatin etc etc) and some with no work ethics (the same
reasons in the opposite sense.  So we cannot couple these two issues.


3.  I dragged IITM into these matters because evrybody is talking that caste
based reservation is responsible for work ethics  (you say it as one of the
reasons, but there are people who just blame reservations).

     In the next mail you thought more and discovered me saying that IIT is not
a meritorious inst and hence I agree to what you say.

     I dont deny that merit is the only criterion to be looked into.  But I am
saying as follows.

DONT SAY THAT ONLY CASTE BASED RESERVATION IS AGAINST MERIT AND WORK ETHICS.
There are many places where there is no caste based reservation but nepotism by
a particular forward community agaisnt merit.  Work ethics suffer here too but
I DO NOT attribute it to the particular caste manipulation.  I quoted it only
to dispute your and Ganesh's statements.


CASTE ! CASTE ! CASTE !
=======================


Again I DO NOT blame that only Brahmins are doing this.  I accuse that all the
communities are doing the same / will do the same thing if they are given the
opportunity.

I have met a few  non-Brahmin community faculty who have been totally harrassed
by the Brahmin coterie in  IITM  irrespective of thier talents compared to the
rest. In recruitment also some depts see to that no non-Brahmin commuity person
gets the job.

Similarly if you go to MK UNiversity Chem dept.  Saiva Vellala Community, is
doing the same thing against the backward communtity faculty members.  Since
even the BC reservation quota is being misused by this Saiva Vellala community
to bring their own people in a BC name (there are a few other vellalas are
BCs).  I am supposed to belong this community and I hope some Saiva vellala
netters may call me as anti-vellala or ettappa etc.  I have seen many of my
relatives who are proud to be identified with Brahmins and curse the
reservation system but is blind to see the truth.

Madras Biophysics dept - Brahmins

Lately during the DK/DMK there are some community rich guys which utilized the
political and money power and reservations have created new centers and
practice the same attitude.  This is what reservation system without any
fundamental understanding of the caste issue does to the society.  These are
called as Neo-Brahmin communities.

eg. Anna University - Gounder

Bharathiyar Univ, Coimbatore Naidu Vs Gounder.



DAMN THE CASTE
===============



This is a continuing trend and will never stop unless the educated realize and
disown thier caste and question every thing open-mindedly.  We should never
listen to  our parents in marriages etc.  Whatever the weapon they use, let us
not be fooled.  How many of us will come forward to do this.  For a trial, we
advertises in magazines for one of my friends who is from a Muslim family.
There were so many responses to our surprise from both the parents and the
girls.  He chose one of them and got married to a Hindu girl. Thier parents did
not agree and my friend is asked not to enter his village by his parents and
the Muslim community.

How many of us will come forward to fight against all odds ?  I am not afraid
to critize about any caste because I feel that I dont have any caste.  You talk
anything about my parent's caste.  I dont get angry.  I will join you.  I will
blast Brahmins, Pillais, Mudaliyars, Naidus, Nadars etc.   Because caste does
not have any logic.  We cannot distiniguih two persons from different castes by
thier appearance whereas races originate because of the geographical
separations and physical features distinguish the race and we should overcome
those differences too.

Finally if we want to put the caste based reservations under scrutiny we
should detach our caste from us and talk about it.  We should remove all
feelings, remove the sacred threads, remove our caste labels etc. (somebody may
say that sacred thread is something connected to holiness and morality:  They
should be honest enough to evaluate how many unholi men are still wearing the
sacred thread).


If we dont want to detach our caste identity, then the next affirmative
statement is "Castes exist and allot everything according to their 
proportions."

 Why should a fellow from a caste with  5 % population do the jobs for another
caste with a 30 % population.  Let them select thier own people to do their
jobs whatever may be the quality or merit.  Let them be contented with whatever
standard they get from thier own people.  Just because the western world is
able to show a better standard in life, India cannot be given to the western
people for ruling or managing our business.  Merit is again subjective.
IIT Entrance exam score alone is not merit.  What the state govt or central
board mark grad shows is not alone.  It is very difficult to decide in a 
society like India.

Let us ask ourselves how many of us will come out of our caste identity and try
to start a new beginning Or sink our heads and will declare

"what we want what we get".


S. Sankarapandi

ssankara@magnus.acs.ohios-ate.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil