HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: logan@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Richard Scott)
Subject: Ravenscar Nights FTP site info (Fiction storage)
Summary: help info
Keywords: help for FTP site
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:32:15 GMT



This is your friendly neighborhood Vampyre archivist.
I am enclosing the info on the FTP site for you.

It is located at:

ftp.cs.uwindsor.ca

to access it one types 

    ftp ftp.cs.uwindsor.ca

If one is using the internet, some bitnet accounts allow one to access this.
otherwise there are bitnet servers for FTP, someone with more information,
please explain how these are used.

Once one has connected it asks you to log in- please use "anonymous" to
log in, not "guest" or your own userid, it will then ask for your address
as a password, this information is kept confidential- my boss just requests
it so he can keep  track of usage.

Then, you are in the root directory of the machine, at the moment there is 
naught else available at this site, though apparently that will shortly
change.

Meanwhile, the following is the routine to reach the section with the files:
cd pub
cd local
cd text
cd vampyres

Underneath this directory are a number of other directories:

Digests   Fluff   World   pics

there is also one file here: Readme

Under Digests can be found old digests of the list from Jae, who will
hopefully soon be uploadingn the full archives to here.

Under Fluff is the old Fluff Archives. One copy of the archives.txt is
available in the next directory.  Then all files are sorted into
alphabetical subdirectories.

Under World:

SKT    Storylines    Digests    volumes

There will soon be a Readme file added here, I haven't gotten around to that 
yet.

The SKT directory is currently just a bunch of SKT's, eventually I hope to sort
these into 3 directories: Mortals, places, Immortals 
these will be self explanatory- files here are stored as:
 
sktname.authorname

Storylines: all the stories with authors name, broken down into sections
are here.  This is to make it possible for one storyline to be followed at a
time. These are title.#.author

Digests: these are the logs that Morgan is sending me each few days
of the discussions on the list.

Volumes are the stories as they went out to the rest of the Vampyres list.
These will shortly be removed once I have the storylines section completed.
I will place in that section a file with a liting of what was in each issue
of Ravenscar Nights.

I hope this is helpful to you, please feel free to enjoy the archives at
your leisure.

Cat
-- 
AussieVamp 
AussieMan, Neophyte Vampire and DarkWolf
(Eric Clapton is God!!!)   [ and there is Bobby Fischer... ;-) ]
(Walter Payton, Mike Singletary and Neal Anderson form the Holy Trinity!)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Fiction Advice: Foreword
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:04:47 GMT

A little later tonight (Thursday, Nov 5), I'm going to start sending in a
series of items about writing fiction for the mass market. Some of these I
posted a few days ago, provoking a remarkable amount of e-mail asking for
copies of this or that posting. So I decided I'd start from the top and go
through the whole batch in a couple of stages.

Altogether I'll be sending 17 separate "handouts" from my commercial fiction
course. They range from good work habits to the reading of contracts.
Please--don't read them as divine revelation. They come out of my experience,
which may not be anything like yours or that of other writers. But if they
save you some time, energy and grief, I'll be glad.

The files total about 180K--enough for a short book. I'll number each one as
Fiction Advice plus a number and keyword. If you miss some of them, I'll
*try* to post them directly, but sometimes people's addresses don't make
sense to my computer...

Why am I doing this? Well, a year or so ago someone e-mailed me with that
very question. I thought for a minute and then replied to this effect: When
you're young, and you think you have the talent, you wonder how you can make
the talent serve you. When you're older, you wonder how you can serve the
talent. This is some small part of my service. God bless, work hard, write
honestly, take pride in your craft!

Crawford Kilian
Communications Department
Capilano College
2055 Purcell Way
North Vancouver, BC Canada V7G 1H7
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca


Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Subject: Re: Theme?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:05:27 GMT

Yeah, my understanding of theme is that the word refers to the thesis of the
writing--the pattern or philosophy which the story implies.  I think that any
meaningful story will have a thesis, regardless of whether the author is
aware of it.  Go look up some analyses of Shakespeare--critics are always
finding deep meaning in his stories, yet I don't believe he ever consciously
set out to build a play around a theme.

I think a writer defines his theme unconsciously when he makes choices about
what to write and what will happen in what he writes.  A meaningful story
tends to define a theme, whether that's wha t the author set out to do or
not.

--
Alan


alan_barclay@mindlink.bc.ca


Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Fiction Advice 4: Ms. Format
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:10:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
> Manuscript Format
> 
> Underline text only if you cannot italicize it.

This is exactly the reverse what what all the editors on GEnie -- and
they are legion -- say.

> Be sure that each page displays a plain Arabic numeral in the upper
> right-hand corner. Otherwise, don't bother with a header. They're not going
> to scatter your ms. or lose the title page. 

But they do.  Again, the editors on GEnie who not only are legion but
insistent on this point say DO use a header with LastName/WordFromTitle/#

Have you ever seen an editor's office?  Do you know just how many mss.
they read a month?  Do you know WHERE they read them?  Subways, lots of
times.  (No time to read unsolicited mss. in the office.)

	Larry "Voice of the dust devil" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  For love all love of other sights controls,
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \ And makes one little room an everywhere -- Donne
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Fiction Advice 12: Show & Tell
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:34:14 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <17417@mindlink.bc.ca>, Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
|
|Maybe this won't work for Jon or others, but I find I like my villains and
|monsters. They're doing the best they can, and they think they're right to
|behave as they do. I sympathize with them...but I also hope that their
|"niceness" will enhance their creepiness. A (literally) heart-rending priest
|is also affectionate to his junior priest and the soldiers who help him
|conquer other tribes. He really loves them in a gentle, parental sense. And
|that makes him and his culture more interesting to me, because a
|one-dimensional evil is no evil at all. It's when your likable next-door
|neighbor becomes a serial killer that you need to examine what made him do
|it...and what makes him like you.

This has been a problem with my book, REMOTE CONTROL.  The central
character is a serial killer.  I portray him sympathetically, in the
sense that I show his reasons for doing what he does as internally
consistent, and he wrestles with the issue of the rightness of his
actions and becomes convinced that his actions are right and necessary.
But he does not have a redeeming "soft" side, where we see that he is
capable of gentleness and affection, because he is not capable of
gentleness and affection.  He is severely damaged goods in that regard,
and this is in fact one of the character traits I wanted to explore in
writing the book.

One of the agents I showed the book to (one I worked with, who was
willing to chat about his commercial as well as artistic concerns) said
it was a maxim of the fiction business that the villain has to "pat the
dog," and that I would find it an almost insurmountable difficulty in
selling my novel that my protagonist never does so.  He also said that
this was entirely a commercial concern--a book could be a very good read
with a villain who had no redeeming features, but it probably wouldn't
sell.  So far it seems he was right.

-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Subject: Re: Journals
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:13:32 GMT

I've occaasionally bought 5x8 hardbacked note books with about 100 lined
pages at Grand & Toy.  I've never noticed a lack of them in stationary
stores.  They're cheap, too--about 2.50 (canadian).  For ten times that price
you can have fancy patterned covers and buy it from coles--but I digress...


--
Alan


alan_barclay@mindlink.bc.ca


Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Theme?
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:37:32 GMT

In article <92310.095916KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
     KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET (Jon L. Campbell) writes:

>   My problem with this, is that writing a story with a theme implies
>that every story has a moral to be told.  Or should have a moral, but
>I have problems with this concept because I believe that the essence of
>truth is chaotic.

   "The essence of truth is chaotic," sounds like a Theme to me, Jon.
You've gotten the concept of theme and moral confused.  'Moral' is an
attempt to get across to a reader a guideline for his or her life; most
of my stories contain some kind of theme, some kind of moral.  Even in
my erotica, my favorite theme is "With great power comes great
responsibility."

>I can't believe that people still write from the perspective of the
>theme in their stories.  I can't imagine why anyone would try to
>influence the reader with their idea of what is moral and what isn't.

    Well, fortunately for the world at large, many of us aren't
nihilists.  I believe in the difference between right and wrong; I
believe in free will and personal, moral responsibility, and even if
illustrating that isn't the essential theme of the story I'm writing, I
at least attempt to keep it as a secondary theme by illuminating
characters who follow that set of beleifs.

   And, especially as a gay/lesbian writer, I'm out to write stories
that straight people will read and absorb from the incidentally gay
characters the message "Hey, these are people, too."  I use different
alien species to tackle relationship themes such as interracial
marriages and infertility.

>What do you think?  Does anyone out there still use a theme in their stories?

   Lots of us.

   Sounds to me like your favorite theme is "Shit happens; love is just
one kind of shit."  Not a very pretty theme, I guess, but if it floats
your boat...

   Elf !!! (nihilists need not apply.)
-- 
      __        | The post you have just read is real, but it could
      \/        | have been avoided.  Inbreeding is every-one's
Elf Sternberg   | problem.  Contact your local Mormon church to be
elf@halcyon.com | sure you aren't marrying a close relative.
From: olsen@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Diane Olsen)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Looking up quotations, etc., online
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:28:11 GMT
Organization: Stanford University CSLI

Q.  How can I come up with quotations such as this one as quickly as 
everybody else?

CO1 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest
 of these is charity.

A.  Let me pass on this tip so I can be promoted from "last person to hear 
about this" to "second to last...":

Type 
	telnet info.rutgers.edu
	Library
	Reference

and you will be greeted with a menu listing various reference books that you
can consult online, including a dictionary, a thesaurus, the Oxford Book of
Familiar Quotations, the King James Bible, the Koran, and the Book of Mormon.

Happy hunting!

--Diane (named for Diana, ancient Roman goddess of the hunt)

-- 
Diane L. Olsen		"A woman with a mind is fit for all tasks."
olsen@csli.stanford.edu		--Christine de Pizan (c.1363-c.1431)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Theme?
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:56:15 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <92310.095916KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET> KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET (Jon L. Campbell) writes:

>   My problem with this, is that writing a story with a theme implies
>that every story has a moral to be told.

I think you're confusing "theme" with "moral," which aren't the same thing.

>Dick meets Jane at the park, they fall in love and
>through a series of events marry each other.  Their chance encounter
>in the park is not a moral passage in time, but characteristic of the
>chaos that occasionally brings unlike events together.  What is the
>moral of a love story if the people involved are unknowingly pawns in
>the chaotic scheme of the universe?

So it sounds like your "Dick meets Jane" love story would have the
theme "Love is a characteristic of the chaos that occasionally brings
unlike events together, and the people involved are unknowingly pawns
in the chaotic scheme of the universe."

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: news@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
Subject: morality/theme/playing God
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:22:51 GMT

In article <92314.140929KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Jon L. Campbell
<KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET> wrote:
> 
> 

> Plain and simple when
> someone attempts to subvert a story with their own ideas of morality, then
> they are playing god with the mind of the reader.  Because morality in the
> story is so subtle, it is subliminal and therefore, dangerous.  A means of
> invoking thoughts and prejudices, love and hate, right and wrong, but who
> among any writer has that responsibility.

Ah, Jon...  This is *why* writers write and artists create art and actors
act.
When you (the audience) experience something that is well crafted, we
(the creators) are offering  you a look at the world from a different 
perspective--our own.  And morality is a unique part of each of our 
perspectives.

When you read something *I* write, I hope that
you will come away with a view of duty and
honor that is slightly different than the one you already have.
I want you to see, from my p.o.v., how guilt can warp our lives
and how responsiblity can be more important than personal happiness.

I write suspense fiction, and I've failed if you are bored by the world
I've created.  I want you to be involved enough 
in the people I've introduced that you'll  hurt--just a little-- when they
are hurting and  you'll hold your breath--for just a moment--when they
are in trouble.  And maybe someday  (if I've done my job really  well) when
you are confronting some personal dilemna, you'll find yourself 
remembering that one of my characters handled a similar problem.  Maybe
you'll find some comfort in the thought that our worlds have much
in common.

Am I playing  God when I write ?  You bet I am.  That's my * job*, Jon.
In my make-believe world, I *am* the creator and you are my 
invited guest.

Every time you read a book, view a piece of sculpture, watch a movie,
you are entering  a world of someone else's making.
While you're visiting, you'll be shown the thoughts and prejudices,
loves and hates, and rights and wrongs that exist in *that* world.  Then,
at your discretion, you can use what you've learned to re-form your own
perspective.

If you want to avoid themes and morality--if you're truly afraid of
subtle, subliminal, and dangerous viewpoints, then your only safety
is in cookbooks, user's manuals, and soup can labels.

Maureen
From: rfisel@informix.com (Rick Fisel)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: composer seeks playwright to collaborate on stage musicals
Keywords: drama, musical
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:20:33 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

I am a SF Bay Area composer looking for a local collaborator for some new,
"adventurous" stage musicals. By "adventurous", I mean that I am interested
in historical, biographical, and political topics, as well as farce, but NOT
traditional boy-meets-girl plots. I want to produce one or more works for
the professional musical theater, and have connections at local theater 
companies. I also have a home music studio that is fairly well equipped.

I would prefer someone with experience with dramatic and musical writing. 
Convenient location and length of resume are less important than talent and 
motivation, however. 

If you are interested, please send me email at

rfisel@informix.com

Rick Fisel

-- 
Rick Fisel (rfisel@informix.com)
opinionated employee of opinionless
Informix Software
I prefer replies by email.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: lgs57@cas.org ()
Subject: Theme?
Keywords: theme romance
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:32:43 GMT

I prefer to think of metamessage instead of theme.  For the story I am
currently writing the theme is keeping looking for Mr. Right, he will show
up.  With a theme like this it's obviously a romance.  
Even trivial books have themes.  I recently read Winter World: Brander's Book by
C.J. Mills. an example of space opera.  The theme is be
self-reliant and don't trust anyone.  (corollary-If you do trust anyone, they
will hurt you.)  The themes in Jane Austen's books are be yourself and someone
will love you.  (Perhaps even Mr. Darcy)  The books I reread are ones whose
themes I want to reinforce in my life.  So I read a lot of Jane Austen.  

A wonderful example of the power of a theme is Star Trek, both the original and
The Next Generation.  One aspect of its theme is that the future is wonderful 
And just think of all the people who are attracted to that theme.
 
I also believe that writing is like the other fine arts.  A composer writes a
song to evoke a particular mood, or to suggest a particular scene.  A writer
of fiction shows us a world of his/her own imagination.  This comes complete with
the person's biases and experiences.  The theme of the book results partly from
the author's character and partly from his/her conscious decisions in writing the
book.  
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: lsefton@gallant.apple.com (Laurie Sefton)
Subject: FAQ and fiction advice now available via anonymous ftp
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:25:33 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.



The misc.writing FAQ and fiction advice (Thank you, Crawford Killian!) are now
available via anonymous ftp on:
ftp.apple.com

They can be found in:

/pub/lsefton/misc.writing

If you have any material thot you think ought to be provided via ftp, please 
send it to:

lsefton@apple.com

and I'll include it in the archive.

Thanks!
Laurie Sefton (new FAQ person for misc.writing)
-- 
lsefton@apple.com	It's a goalie thing--you wouldn't understand....
Join the San Jose Sharks mailing list--send mail to 
sharks-request@medraut.apple.com
Disclaimer: My views, not Apple's
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: news@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
Subject: Playing God
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:20:58 GMT

In article <92314.140929KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Jon L. Campbell
<KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET> wrote:
>

> Plain and simple when
> someone attempts to subvert a story with their own ideas of morality, then
> they are playing god with the mind of the reader.  Because morality in the
> story is so subtle, it is subliminal and therefore, dangerous.  A means of
> invoking thoughts and prejudices, love and hate, right and wrong, but who
> among any writer has that responsibility.

Ah, Jon...  This is *why* writers write and artists create art and actors
act.
When you (the audience) experience something that is well crafted, we
(the creators) are offering  you a look at the world from a different 
perspective--our own.  And morality is a unique part of each of our 
perspectives.

When you read something *I* write, I hope that
you will come away with a view of duty and
honor that is slightly different than the one you already have.
I want you to see, from my p.o.v., how guilt can warp our lives
and how responsiblity can be more important than personal happiness.

I write suspense fiction, and I've failed if you are bored by the world
I've created.  I want you to be involved enough 
in the people I've introduced that you'll  hurt--just a little-- when they
are hurting and  you'll hold your breath--for just a moment--when they
are in trouble.  And maybe someday  (if I've done my job really  well) when
you are confronting some personal dilemna, you'll find yourself 
remembering that one of my characters handled a similar problem.  Maybe
you'll find some comfort in the thought that our worlds have much
in common.

Am I playing  God when I write ?  You bet I am.  That's my * job*, Jon.
In my make-believe world, I *am* the creator and you are my 
invited guest.

Every time you read a book, view a piece of sculpture, watch a movie,
you are entering  a world of someone else's making.
While you're visiting, you'll be shown the thoughts and prejudices,
loves and hates, and rights and wrongs that exist in *that* world.  Then,
at your discretion, you can use what you've learned to re-form your own
perspective.

If you want to avoid themes and morality--if you're truly afraid of
subtle, subliminal, and dangerous viewpoints, then your only safety
is in cookbooks, user's manuals, and soup can labels.

Maureen
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: westphal@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Dorothy Westphal)
Subject: advice postings
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 20:56:48 GMT

I have been diligently storing all the advice postings as they
came south across the border; then I made the mistake (?)
of taking Friday off. Lo and behold, the administrator had
decided to "clean up" all postings from before this week and start fresh!
my last file was advice 9, now I see a response to advice 16.
Could someone PLEASE repost or email to me the missing portions?
I would appreciate it more than you can imagine.
-- 
Dorothy Westphal, Sunnyvale, Calif. % Just when things are going your way...%
westphal@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com   %               they get even better!   %
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Online Documentation Seminars
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:46:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In light of this, is anyone familiar with seminars geared specifically
>to creating/designing/writing online documentation? 

I just got a brochure for "Designing and Writing Effective Online Help,"
presented through the University of Washington College of Engineering.
Don't know anything about the seminar besides what's in the brochure, 
but the instructors, David Farkas (farkas@u.washington.edu) and Judy 
Ramey (judy@palenque.uwtc.washington.edu,jramey@u.washington.edu) are
known to me as respected scholars and practicioners in the field.

Make sure it's reasonably applicable to you (online help is but a
subset of online documentation).

Disclaimer:  My employer makes no endorsement, etc., etc.

Good luck,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: misc.writing