HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leigh@ssd.comm.mot.com (Todd Leigh)
Subject: Re: Reverse Screw Roll?
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:22:12 GMT
Summary: I think I know what you mean...
Keywords: rolling

Hi.

I think I know what you mean when you say reverse screw roll.  The way
it is described in Derek Hutchinson's book, you set up holding the paddle
across your face parallel to the centerline of the boat underwater, then
sweep in the direction of your top hand.

I've tried this in the pool, and had the same trouble you did on the short
version (where you hold the paddle in a normal paddling position instead of
in an extended paddle position) in that the other blade of the paddle got
stuck on the underside of the deck when I tried to sweep.  I think there are
two ways to solve this...

1. Use an unfeathered paddle, or an eskimo-style paddle.  This is the paddle
that this roll was developed with.  With the eskimo paddle especially it
should be little different from the extended version.  I tried with and 
unfeathered paddle, and was still unsuccessful, but it at least seemed
possible.

2. If you are unwilling to change paddles, just do it with the paddle out of
the water...

Lean against the back deck, turn your upper body toward the paddle to prevent
dislocation position.

Get your paddle out of the water...  Your hand on the side you set up on should
be just off of your ribs with the elbow bent, your opposite hand crosses your
face as if you are doing a Duffek (cross bow draw).  This should set your 
paddle angle so that the blade close to your opposite hand is flat on the
water.  This is the blade that will do the sweep.  It is quite a stretch to
get into this position and not a (similar but) dislocation position, without
the upper body turned.  I would suggest getting here before tipping over the
first few times you try this.

Then execute your reverse sweep.  If you've done this with the extended paddle
then you know what to do.  Otherwise it is difficult to describe.  Unwind your
upper body and sit up at the same time.  Having the paddle out of the water
clears the blade closest to the boat.

I hope this helps.  It is difficult to describe, much easier to demonstrate.
I learned it from Ron Davis, an NOC instructor originally from the St. Louis
area, on a trip to Costa Rica.  It seems most useful for situations where you
are stuck on the back deck for some reason and can not set up normally.

Todd.

leigh@ssd.comm.mot.com
From: reinstat@byron.u.washington.edu (Robert Reinstatler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: New boats - Pirouette and Freefall (long)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:31:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov6.163123.5415
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <JON.92Nov4174436@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.190440.39293@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:
>
>	       Bob McDonough designed this boat for Perception.  Bob is one
>
>Hmm.  Never heard of him.  Do you perhaps mean Bob McDougall?
>
>--
>jonathan byrd
>jon@apollo.med.utah.edu

This will not answer any questions, but is offered as a little human interest
tidbit:   In the early 1980s, a Bob McDonough and a Bob McDougall boated here
in the Seattle Washington area......I heard them referred to as the "Bobsy 
Twins".  Their skills with kayaks were, to say the least, impressive.

Bob Reinstatler
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: Re: Middle Fk Salmon question
Reply-To: janis@unislc.UUCP (Janis Huber,B1E05,5392)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:39:00 GMT

In article <lfh5gdINN1ho@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>Do campsites on the Middle Fork Salmon have pit toilets?  How about
>the main Salmon and Selway?

I did the Middle Fork of the Salmon last May and some (not all) of the
campsites have pit toilets.  7 of us did the trip as a self-support,
6 kayaks and 1 canoe.  We were able to a camp each night with a pit
toilet.

>There is a bizarre new regulation this year that forbids carrying the
>good ol' rocket-box plus garbage-bag system (or groover, as it's called
>out west, for the mark it leaves on your butt if you forget the seat).

Are you sure?  When we did the trip, we had two plastic containers with lids
and trash compactor bags....this was acceptable.  The ranger was more 
concerned about us having a fire pan and ash can (one 5 lb which wouldn't 
fit in a kayak).




						Janis
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Yes, do it, PLEASE!!!
Date: 10 Nov 1992 18:13:19 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov10.175206.61638@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>,
sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:
>
>
>    Maybe I have become spoiled but ever since I started using this posting
>    group, it has been devoted almost entirely to canoeing and kayaking.  Now
>    I have to look through all this crew stuff to find a blurb about paddling.
>    I know the official designation is for boats with paddles, oars, etc. but
>    another posting group for crew activities would be welcomed by me.
>    Whitewater paddlers are in a different league than flatwater
>    paddlers/rowers and a separate group seems appropriate.

I don't blame you for not wanting us around, since most of the posts
are of the 'why arent there more rowing posts?' nature, and the
expected responses.

I contend that the sports are more alike than different.  It differs
in the training, types of skills, etc.  They are very similar
in equipment(repair, purchase, transport), water safety, teaching
methods, and general obscurity from the public at large.

I'm not against a rowing group, I am for keeping the three groups
together.  I think flatwater paddling has as much in common with
rowing as it does with whitewater paddling.   Where do they go, or
do they constantly crosspost?

There are issues I've never yet seen here that may be useful to both
groups, utilizing experience from one of them.

1. handicapped programs
2. youth programs
3. starting/running  a club.  insuring a club.
4. running events/competitions

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: hawaii
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:03:45 GMT


a friend of mine passed on a brochure of sea kayaking, guided tours for
$35 for 1/2 a day, felt that was reasonable.  your the second
person that brought up wind surfing..haven't tried that...yet.  thanks
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: Yes, do it, PLEASE!!!
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:14:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.232614.4360@athena.cs.uga.edu> donahue@athena.cs.uga.edu (Barbara Donahue) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.175206.61638@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:
>>    another posting group for crew activities would be welcomed by me.
>>    Whitewater paddlers are in a different league than flatwater
>>    paddlers/rowers and a separate group seems appropriate.
>>Scott Harding
>	If we are voting, here is another yes vote...I think it
>	would be a good idea to make a crew bulletin board.
>				Barb

	Do it up!

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: braun@falcon.ece.cmu.edu (Jennifer Braun)
Subject: Re: Rowing
Originator: braun@falcon.ece.cmu.edu
Reply-To: braun@falcon.ece.cmu.edu (Jennifer Braun)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:32:38 GMT


|> 
|> Just for grins & giggles, how much does a concept II cost?
|> 
|> Thanks, 
|> Terry
|> 

last, time i checked (about a year ago), i believe you could get one new for 
~ $650

sometimes you can get used ones (especially around Indoor Rowing
Championship sites) for under $500.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman)
Subject: Crew
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:59:29 GMT


I think that it would be a great idea to start a crew newsgroup.
I am sure that there are many interested rowers out there who would
be willing to subscribe.  You never can tell unless you try!!!

I also have a question.  I was wondering if anyone has recently
seen any proof from either a recent study, or can tell from a their
own experience if hatchet blades are actually better than standard
blades.  I am planning on buying a new pair of sculling oars, and
cannot decide between the two.  Thanks in advance.

                                -Dan
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rowing: Big Blades
Date: 12 Nov 1992 07:07:49 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov11.153132.10073@vax.oxford.ac.uk>,
jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin) writes:
>I have yet to try the Dreissigacker Big Blades that were so popular in the
>Olympics. Now my club has some money to spend and if it is true that they give
>you a 3% speed advantage, as claimed by the company, we really ought to think
>about buying some. Are they just a fad or is there a real performance gain?
>I have heard that they can make you go slower into a headwind, because of the
>increased blade area.

Yes they are a fad, but they are more mechanically effective than
the old ones.  The advantage is gained at the catch.  Coaches and
rowers I've talked to claim that 'slippage' at the catch and boat
check is far less with the new blades.  Sorry, I don't yet have
personal experience as I'm only a rec rower anymore.

The howling on the US collegiate scene when these blades first
started to show up in the races this last spring was hilarious.
There were incidences where one team would show up to a dual race
with the new blades, and the other team's coach would refuse to
race them....  good stuff.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: Ergometer Training
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:13:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.014603.19563@spock.UUCP> gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman) writes:
>
>     For those of you who would like some helpful hints on ergometer training,
>I've included some things to keep you busy over the winter.
>
...............
>
>Other Workouts:
>
>9 x 60 sec with 30 sec rests
>12 x 250m with 2 min rests
>6 x 500m with 4 min rests
>3 x 1000m with 8 min rests

  
A favorite in our gym is to set the machine for an hour (well 59:59)
then pull nine minutes, rest two, pull eight, rest two, pull seven, etc.
'til the hour runs out. You're short one minute at the end. It's a
good workout though I have trouble judging my effort on those odd
length pieces.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 19:31:00 EST
From: <IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: river rescur
 <BxJ9v3.G2u@well.sf.ca.us>

nnget
In article <BxJ9v3.G2u@well.sf.ca.us>, sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) says:
>
>I spoke with my kayak instructor today and he told me he got in a similar
>situation on the upper Gauley, yikes...said it took brute stregnth to
>push himself off one of the rocks but he managed to get off, think it
>would be worth breaking your paddle over, it was worth losing mine over,
>it went downstream when I grabbed the rescue rope, never to be seen again :(
>brand new, used twice


    I was paddeling on the West Branch of the Penobscot
two months ago, and a woman in our group swam through the
cirbwork (class 5+ at 3,400cfs).   She had just come back from
Nantalahala, and was doing the gorge for the first time.
The whole group portaged except her, she filpped at the top,
missed her roll, freaked, and then bailed.   She managed to get
no major injuries (lots of bruises), but, her Dancer had two holes
ripped into the top deck, not to mention the boat got folded.
She lost her paddel also.  It was a one week old Michell,
                    She was bummed.
    So I geuss my point is that if anyone found a new Michell
on the Pneobscot late this summer, (and feel guilty) let me know
via E-mail@    IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU

LATER  H.I.




Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: river rescur
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:56:48 GMT

In article <BxKvvD.5Kx@well.sf.ca.us> sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes
>I could really care less about the paddle, didn't like it anyway, it was
>too short.  What bothered me more than anything was that *I* didn't know
>to get myself out of the situation.  All I could think was lean downstream
>and keep the boat from flipping.  Ihad my paddled in the pour over below me
>trying to keep the boat tilted downstream....talk about being sore the next
>day....I have a brand new (paddled it twice) Corisca S proline, it has a
>safety look on the front and the back, that is what I attached the
>rope to.  I really like that boat, I was concerned about it folding in 1/2
>but know it some pretty good support in it.  We have already arranged a
>rescur class for the summer, suppose to be excellent and I will feel better
>about paddling


	I have a Corsica that I broached this summer. It did bend a little
	bit, but still seemed pretty solid. I put a little dent in the bottom
	where the rock was, but all in all it was O.K. I was very glad I was
	in a new boat, as my old Perception Mirage might have folded (ten
	years old, not as tough to start with, and spent a lot of time in the
	sun I think). I broached on bow and stern rocks once in it and it
	looked like it was bending a lot under very little pressure. YIKES.

	Maybe now you'll be forced to get a correctly size paddle... :-)

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
From: sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: New boats - Pirouette and Freefall (Bob)
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:15:38 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <JON.92Nov4174436@zeus.med.utah.edu>, jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan
 Byrd) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.190440.39293@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SC
OTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:
>
>              Bob McDonough designed this boat for Perception.  Bob is one
>
>Hmm.  Never heard of him.  Do you perhaps mean Bob McDougall?
>
>--
>jonathan byrd
>jon@apollo.med.utah.edu

    No.  I mean Bob McDonough, an Easterner from North Carolina.  You can
    catch him steep creeking in "Gorilla."
-- 





-----------------
Scott Harding
From: David.T.Greenfield@dartmouth.edu (David T. Greenfield)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:29:29 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Nov9.054034.9323@news.columbia.edu>
scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:

> I was wondering where the drops they hiked next to were, as well as
> 	the drop they ran in their "old" birch canoes.

Did you notice those canoes were white?  I thought birch bark canoes
were made with the white side of the bark turned in.  The ones I've
seen are kind of a burgundy color.  Maybe they were painted.

David
david.t.greenfield@dartmouth.edu
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: drytops
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:43:41 GMT
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <BxMCM6.I5t@fang.att.com> stamer@fang.att.com (Greg Stamer) writes:
>I am in the market for a drytop and would appreciate feedback from
>anyone who has experience with drytops/drysuits that use neoprene cuffs
>to protect the latex gaskets.  Are the neck cuffs really useful or just
>for show?  How much extra hassle is it to replace gaskets?  What about
>neck comfort and neck mobility? 

	I have a Stohlquist Eridanus dry-top which I really like. It has a
	collar that you can snap up around the neck gasket when it's cold
	(the collar has pile on the inside even :-)). The wrist gaskets
	have neoprene cuffs that velcro around them. The only downside to
	the cuffs is that I hate velcro, and it does come undone sometimes.
	I see no downside to the collar. The upside is that the collar is
	warm and the neoprene cuffs protect the wrist gaskets from minor
	punctures.
	
	However, from what I hear, the most important benefit of these
	collars and cuffs is that it keeps the sun off of the gaskets.
	These gaskets deteriorate from UV rays, so the less they're in the
	sun, the better. They also help keep other nasty stuff off your
	gaskets (stuff like sunblock, KY jelly :-) etc.)

>As far as brands go I am looking at the Kokatat Whirlpool and Stolquist
>Nude-X. The simplicity and price of the Stolquist looks right ($114.00
>at NRS) but I wonder about the durability of the "mirolight" fabric.

	Not sure if the Eridanus is the "microlight" stuff or not, but it's
	sure plenty durable. I've always been impressed with Stohlquist's
	products anyway. Expensive, though....

>-Greg                                           \   O

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Rowing (was: QUESTION ABOUT A NEW POSTING BOARD)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:08:58 GMT

In article <95994@netnews.upenn.edu>
rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
 
>In article <JON.92Nov3110141@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>>In comparison to whitewater paddling, sculling hardly deserves to be
>>called a sport, much less a serious one.
>
At least I can row starting and finishing less than 100' from my house
here in the great, flat midwest.  How many of you white water kayakers
can equal that?
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Rowing
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:00:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


   
'Nuther question about rowing. This time on ergs (Concept II) to be exact.
There's two "difficulty" settings you can chose: 1) big gear wheel or
small gear wheel and 2) open vanes or close vanes (or somewhere
in between).
  
Question: How should you set the two settings to accomplish what goals?
Gut reaction is to chose the settings that make it harder to turn the
wheel - but are you better off choosing easy settings and (maybe) working
the muscles less and the lungs more? 
  
What settings are closest to real rowing>?
  
Do any of these questions make sense?
  
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dalero@microsoft.com (Dale Rogerson)
Subject: Folding Boats ( WAS Re: river rescur)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:37:03 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Nov12.015648.15556@news.columbia.edu> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
>	I have a Corsica that I broached this summer. It did bend a little
>	bit, but still seemed pretty solid. I put a little dent in the bottom
>	where the rock was, but all in all it was O.K. I was very glad I was
>	in a new boat, as my old Perception Mirage might have folded (ten
>	years old, not as tough to start with, and spent a lot of time in the
>	sun I think). I broached on bow and stern rocks once in it and it
>	looked like it was bending a lot under very little pressure. YIKES.

I broached my old cross-linked Dancerabout a months ago.  The front of the 
boat folding down about 30 degrees.  I kicked the boat out and paddled the
rest of the day with it and it performed okay.  My worry was that the
structural integrity of the boat was gone and that if I broached again, I
wouldn't have the time to get out of the boat before it folded.  I don't 
like the idea of  having the center wall fall over on my legs.  So, I have
been looking for a new boat. 

So my question is when is a folded boat time to get a new boat and when is
it not? My dancer is over 6 years old....

Dale Rogerson
 

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Middle Fk Salmon question
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:36:59 GMT

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>Do campsites on the Middle Fork Salmon have pit toilets?  How about
>the main Salmon and Selway?

Middle Fork has some, and the Selway has none, and I don't know
about the main.

>There is a bizarre new regulation this year that forbids carrying the
>good ol' rocket-box plus garbage-bag system...

Hhmmmm, bizarre.

--Chris
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Unstayed Rigs
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:38:40 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Nov5.183715.10657@mprgate.mpr.ca> kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell) writes:


>The one thing I personally find hard to believe is that the condition of
>the sails is that important.  I think knowing how to trim them is much
>more important.  

>As an example, I used to race on an O'Day Tempest (23'
>keel boat).  In our fleet, the regular winning boat was sailed by two
>men, both over 70 years of age (most boats were sailed with 3 crew, generally
>young and agile except for the skippers).  Their sails were as old as the
>boat (20 years), and they never adjusted the outhaul on their main.  They still
>beat us almost every time.  They could read the current (in Lake Ontario) and
>make for the best side of the course every time.  As far as boat handling skill,
>these guys were great.  I don't think the old sails hurt them too much.

>In case you're thinking the boat was faster than the others, this is a one-
>design fleet.  At the end of the season, we used to hold a series of races
>in which the skippers drew a boat from a hat and sailed that boat in the next
>race.  The old guys always did really well, no matter what boat they were
>sailing.

In the sailboat racing one could say that de differences in boat speed,
that is speed differences due to hull, keel, sparas, rigging and sails
tend to be less than 5%.  The differences caused by the crews ability to
trim the boat are somewhere less than 10% and the differences made by
strategy, taking the shifts and being on the right side of the course
might cause performance differences up to 30%.

These old cunning men, new obviously what to with their old sails and
more importantly knew where to go.

When I was still racing, our club had for all one design boats once
a year a round robin series, where all the skippers sailed all the
boats, with crews remaining in the boats. Look: the top skippers
where on top in any boat and the bottom skippers where on bottom
in almoast any boat. The year I happened to won the best all rounder 
trophy, calculated for all the races in the year, I also won the
round-robin of my class the Osprey, my boat was last in the round
robin for the Ospreys. For some time I did not hear in the shower
after the race the sentence: "Oh, gees, If I had a boat as fast
as yours, I would certainly be on top of the fleet."  Usually
I tried to comfor these chaps by telling them: "You will newer
find out  how fast my boat really is, because it is handicapped
by me sitting there and messing upp everything" :-).

>dK

- Lauri Tarkkonen