HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: HOW can Taiwan become independent?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:44:40 GMT

>Let's suppose Taiwan government does not claim to be the only legitmate
>government of whole China. Instead, it claims to be a government of only
>Taiwan and recognizes Communist government. Then will Taiwan be in any
>different situation than it is now?
>
>IMO, as long as commnunists don't recognize Taiwan government, Taiwan will
>always be like it is now. Since,  all the countries in the world, when they
> established diplomatic relationship with CG(communist government), they
>recognized Taiwan as a part of China. So, no matter what the Taiwan
>government calls itself , be it "Republic of China" or "Republic of Taiwan,
>it will not have any more diplomatic ties with
>foreign countries--no country will be able to establish diplomatic relation
>with Taiwan without cutting its tie with Beijing. It would only make CG more
>hostile toward Taiwan. You see, Taiwan government just can't have their own
>way-whichever way. Kind of sad, isn't it?
>ZZZ

You should wait until Taiwanese have tried to go for independent to say it.

Yi-Chieh
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25377 soc.culture.japan:7976 soc.history:8232
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan,soc.history
Subject: Re: US Ironclads (Was: Re: US colonializing )
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:29:33 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:

>In article <CB.92Sep10112746@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>
>>The first important iron ship was, I believe, the Dreadnought (I could
>>have the name wrong).  It was an English ship of about 1870.  As
>>

>The Dreadnought was built in around 1904 at the height of the naval
>arms race between England and Germany.  Its importance laid not in 

	There were a lot of British ships called HMS Dreadnaught.
	The first one fought the Spanish Armada in 1588.
	The 1870 ship was the 7th, the 1906 (not 1904) one was the 8th.

>being the first ironclad warship, but in carrying only big guns 
>of the same caliber (10 12") instead of the mishmash of calibers 

	This was because the big guns fired further and so could
	reach the enemy before the smaller guns.  This meant that
	the smaller guns were useless, and just took up space that
	logically should go to bigger guns.  It was an Italian
	concept, published in Jane's "Fighting Ships" of 1903.

	(Source, "To Shining Sea", by Steven Howarth).

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang)
Subject: Math Olympiad, China scored first.
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 04:30:17 GMT


  For those of you who're interested and haven't learned it
already, China scored first in this year's IMO ( International
Mathematical Olympiad ) that was held in Moscow.
The first 5 teams were as follows :

	1. China		240 p ( out of 252 )
	2. USA			178 p
	3. ROMANIA		177 p
	4. Unified Team		176 p
	5. England 		168 p


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: fjiao@cisco.com (Fan Jiao)
Subject: test, ignore...
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an
	      individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily
	      reflect those of the company.
Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:48:49 GMT

This is a test.

Fan Jiao

Engineering
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25278 soc.culture.taiwan:13149
From: chu@church.cs.unc.edu (Heng Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:38:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <10SEP199215495996@deimos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>1. Selling weapons to Taiwan is an invasion to Beijing's
>sovereignty. 

Tell us if CCP ever ruled Taiwan for a single day. 
Also, how come selling other products to Taiwan is not an invasion of, 
say what? sovereignty of PRC?

>2.
>The next day you will
>find that somebody may sell something more dangerous at more
>attractive price and the Straight will be a very dangerous 
>place.

ROC recently has expressed more than once the strong willingness to rule
out force (by signing pact or equivalent with PRC). Judging from ROC's 
current prosper situation and the fact that ROC is far too small, I don't 
think use of force, if any, will be initiated by ROC.

> ...............

Heng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: What About Tibet?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:21:05 GMT

In article <Bu5AvC.A7H@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.211310.1646@wuecl.wustl.edu> esh1@cec2.wustl.edu (Edmond Siu-kei Hui) writes:
>=In article <1992Aug26.053713.10429@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pcalvert@nyx.cs.du.edu (P. Calvert) writes:
>=>i think I know what you are alluding to here.  A few Chinese people sent
>=>me some e-mail saying that the Chinese are too humane.  They then went on
>=>to say, half seriously, that there would be fewer problems in Tibet today
>=>if they had simply gone ahead and killed all the Tibetans.
>=>
>=Who dare to say "killed all the Tibetans"? Please give their names to
>=us.
>=Whether the Han people are more humane to chinese minorities needed to
>=find out by comparing the treatment of American Indians in the US.
>=At least, monorities used to be the noble class untill they were
>=defeated by the Europeans. Can the whites let the indians to be
>=the ruler for next hundred years? Come on!!! Just hundred years!!!
>=
>
>
>Oh! yes, they are really too humane. They should wipe out all
>the students. At least it will bw fast way to control their
>population. :-) 
>
>I am not surprised to hear that kind of comment.
>Don't forget, they are only Communists.  ;-(
                             *********
                     So What?
>
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Change in spelling of Chinese names
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:22:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

yy7085@meibm10.cen.uiuc.edu () writes:

>Now ShanXI is for Shan1Xi1 and ShaanXi (yes 2 a's ) is for Shan3Xi1. This
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
>was started more than five years ago to avoid the confusion.


  Can anybody out there confirm this?  Seems like I need to take some Chinese
  class again. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
    <1992Sep11.164318.3341@news.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:08:42 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:

>>     Suppose Guangdong wants to be indepedent some day and pass
>> a referendum, is that O.K. ? Then maybe other Provinces will follow.
>> There will be some thirty countries on mainland, is that what you want ?
>> 

>Ask people in Guangdong whether they want independence. Ask them! Let them  
>vote! If most people in Guangdong want to be independent, let them go! Again,  
>let people choose their future! If most people in Guangdong or Fujian or Yunan,  
>etc. want to be independent, you just can't stop them even you have troops of  
>10 million.

>Economy is not the only concern. People leave not only because of the poor  
>economy. There were quite a few American Jews went to Israel years ago to  
>develop that country. Nobody forced them to go and the living standard were not  
>as good. Why they went there? Ask yourself?


>Carl

Is this the guy who asked Chinese to build a strong China?
Gees, how many pay checks he gets. May be it is the drug....... HIV........
:x
how to quit
	
		#@$%@%^@% 
}#@$%{[]
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Subject: Re: The purpose of a country. (Was: F-16's fear?)
    <1992Sep9.203846.25381@zip.eecs.umich.edu> 
    <1992Sep10.134939.12523@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> 
    <1992Sep11.183739.6068@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:00:49 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

>That's definitely correct and is exactly the points I like to let Chinese
>people understand Taiwanese. What most Taiwanese want is just to become a
>boss in his own small company and making some decent money, that's all.
	Then, who are the guys to control them and get the Taxes?
	No one? Are you sure?
	Do you think you can represent them? So, you will be elected?
	You are not such a person to be controled or governed by others
	How much should be enough for a president?
	I heard that there is an island called Diao Yu Dao, you know some
	Chinese? ok, is it belong to Japan? Yes?
	No? Then forget it, non of your business, how long since you be
	there last time? How about the Spartly(?) or Nan Sha?
	Not belong to Taiwan? I see, no problem.
	Do you like KMT? No? So you also need a protection bill.
	No? So you are in US by choice. so, you don't like small business.
	Do you like US culture? No? Because it is a giant?
	Aah? You are speaking for Taiwaness, not for you. I see.
	New world order, ha.
>Taiwanese don't want to become the giant in this world, it's definitely
>different than most of the aggressive Chinese. So, Taiwanese have really
>developed different culture from Chinese culture after being isolated from
>mainland China for almost 100 years. 
>It's really the separation that makes Taiwanese want to be independent from
>China.

>Yi-Chieh

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: (KanXi)Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Organization: MITRE
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:22:47 GMT

> 
> I think Kang Xi (Ai Shin Jue Lo Shuen Hua) is a very underrated emperor; the
                                        ^^^
> Han people often forget the greatness of the Chin Dynasty in its beginning
> since it was non-Han and corrupt at the end of the dynasty.
> 

If I remember it right, KanXi, the greatest emperor in Chinese history, his
name should be (Ai Shin Jue Lo Shuen Ye) or (Ai4Xin1Jue2Luo2 Xuan2Ye4).
                                ^^
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 04:25:02 GMT


  For those of you who're interested and haven't learned it
already, China scored first in this year's IMO ( International
Mathematical Olympiad ) that was held in Moscow.
The first 5 teams were as follows :

	1. China		240 p ( out of 252 )
	2. USA			178 p
	3. ROMANIA		177 p
	4. Unified Team		176 p
	5. England 		168 p


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: william@natimuk.acci.com.au (William Lo)
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese (A sort of defeatism) 
Organization: School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, UCLA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:53:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.175826.18121@clarify.com> rchoy@clarify.com (Raymond Choy) writes:
>In article <9224612.1330@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> william@natimuk.acci.com.au (William Lo) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.113239.12546@cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@mulga.cs.mu.oz.au (Joyous Dave) writes:
>>>I'm very disappointed in Chinese people.
>>
>>	Defeatism?
>>	Don't be. Disappointment will not do any good for
>>	us, either. Why don't you offer a few words of encourage-
>>	ment then, mate?
>>>
>>>I want to improve China, improve its people's living standard,
>>>improve its productivity, improve its economy, improve its
>>>stand in the world.  And I asked people to contribute suggestions
>>>to how to improve China.
>>	
>>	So do we. Got a lot to achieve.
>>	
>>
>>>[...Stuff(your blaming) deleted...]  
>>
>>	Why your so interested in blaming innocent pasttimes?
>>	Maybe you need to be a little patient I suppose. 
>>
>>>Now, I really believe that Chinese are a grain of sand.  PLEASE PLEASE
>>>PLEASE prove me wrong by posting some suggestions on how to improve
>>>the country!
>>
>>	Some essential input then:
>>
>>	The most urgent one is to get the Chinese eduated. I reckon
>>	you can just stand still with a bulk of people who don't have a
>>	grain of sense(not sand!) and are uncivilised. Put some investment
>>	in our people first! 
>>
>>	You still seem to ignore politics. So, politically, the gov't
>>	must play its part, too. That is, we want to have the CCP start
>>	to recognise that we all have our rights - it's just such an
>>	essential and natural thing that people's happiness heavily depends
>>	on. It however still turns the stomachs of our beloved comrades. What
>>	should you think then, mate? 
>>	 
>>	  
>>---Cheers,
>>	Bill
>>
>
>Looking into so many articles in this thread, finally got someone 
>mentioned the Keyword "Education"! I think the most important and
>urgent thing for China nowadays is education. Although there are 
>a lot of brilliant scholar in China that are technically strong,
>the majority of Chinese are still very ignorant. 
>
>
>-Raymond Choy-
>
>

	** You've said it.
	   Thanks mate!

---Cheers,
	Bill
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Border and human rights (Re: British refuse Chinese Asylum
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:13:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.203244.23335@nntp.hut.fi>, ldong@hila.hut.fi (Liyun Dong) writes...
> 
>Passport control may be considered as the biggest violation of universal
>human rights. If the West is not willing to grant the freedom of
>travel to a Chinese citizen, then there seems no need for to discuss
>human right issues in China.
> 
>As long as the passport control practise and visa requirement are considered
>as normal phenomena, any talk about basic and universal human rights is
>meaningless. Or it is only meaningful inside the advocater's own passport
>and custums control area.
> 
>Huachen Pan
>Finland
>----------------
>the account is not mine

Bravo!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:47:29 GMT

>>I think the selling of F-16 is a good news to Taiwanese, especially TIers,
>>but definitely bad news for Chinese. Arm race is a bad thing for sure, but
>>when the bad guys got the gun what you can do about it ? You can either
>>unarm them or arm yourselves if you don't want to get killed.
>>Taiwan's buying F-16 is only a sign that all Chinese should learn and
>>remember forever that Taiwanese have every intention to make their own 
>>decision on their own future. Taiwan is Taiwanese business none of Chinese'
>>business. 
>
>TIers are rebels, they betraied their motherland just for fried 
>chicken legs, all the Chinese should defend our motherland's integrity, 
>because that will benefit all the Chinese in a long run, as long
>as there is such a thing called country, we should protect our country's
>property, seperatist should be tried, rebels should be prosecuted.
>
>>Yi-Chieh
>
>Ze Yang

Yes, I think in your mind the students died at 6.4 1989 are also rebels.
Actually, American are also rebels from England. In fact, if one can trace
back to human history, one will find out that most of time the rebels 
will propsper in the long run, because the rebles will try some things 
new, and usually new thing means better.

Yi-Chieh
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:50:44 EDT
From: <JXL124@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Why people want to leave

But when sister Niu is at home, she is very well dressed and looks down on her
husband (who used to be a peasant?).  How would you explain that?  Ge Ling is
indeed very attractive.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders)
Subject: Re: Change in spelling of Chinese names
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:10:38 GMT

The pinyin (not 'pin yin') convention for dealing with words in which there 
might be ambiguity as to where to parse the syllable is to insert an apostrophe
into the boundary separating the two syllables.  Thus the city of question is 
spelled Xi'an.

Robert Sanders
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Date: 7 Sep 92 05:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <65500096@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes...
>Don't you think the USA fed up Taiwan, Taiwan benefited from the cold
>war.
>I said this because some Taiwanese posted a few posts recently saying
>how much surplus they have, etc.

If you say Taiwan was fed up by USA, you will also imply that mainland is
being fed up by USA right now. If Taiwan had not have to put so much on
defending itself from the threat of mainland, it might have became as rich
as Japan now.  Don't feel insulted when you see the posting of Taiwan's
surplus, you can also do it if you choose the right system.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:05:27 GMT

yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung Liu) writes:

>If "A Word from Chinese" can not convience you to do somthing for your
>own motherland, I would used  the word from "AMERICAN".
>"DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT  YOU CAN DO
>FOR YOUR COUNTRY" Just to  give you  a  lesson of "nationlism".

>>|> "Drink Water, Think Source"
>>The source is pretty bad now and I am now drinking other country's water.

>You are really a ugly chinese!

I agree!!!  It's sad to read Chinese saying "I am now drinking other
country's water" implying that my original source is "bad", and so I
don't have to care about it.  Sad Sad Sad.

Take me for example, it's true that the Australian government is
paying for my education here.  But, what has the Australian society
done for me as a person?  What has the HongKong society done for my
personal growth, and to make me the person I am deep inside?

My life style is Australian, that's true.  BUT my values are Chinese,
strong family values, believe in life-term friendships, respect for
the elders, take control over my own studies, never give up when
I fall, etc, etc.... that's what I think about deep inside.

I have an Australian house-mate.  His grandfather was dying a few
months ago, and I asked him if he was feeling sad; he said, "I'd
rather he die as soon as possible, he's just wasting everyone's
time and resources."  Let me tell you, I was SHOCKED!  There is
no sense of family union nor respect for the elders.  Also, his
parents have told him that they'd rather him NOT move back home.
Whereas my family in Sydney keeps saying, please come back here
after your study, it would be nice to have a family together.

Also, a friend of mine had some personal problems (who hasn't?),
and he was talking about suicide, leaving home, despair, etc.
But, if you take someone from HKG or Taiwan (not sure about China),
he/she will say "I'll try again", "Failure is Success's Mother",
etc, etc, and that's why after so many disasterous events (like
Korean War, Japanese invasion, etc), HKG and TW turned out to
be BETTER after every one of the devastating events.

Now, THAT's part of the Chinese culture that lives inside me.  The
characteristics that have kept me going and growing as a person,
and as a blessing to people around me.

And I think about the source.  I worry about 1997 more than the
shrinking Australian economy; because as my motherland, the land
which shaped me to be who I am today, I want to see it strong.

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
From: cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: F-16's fear?
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:37:15 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


   Taiwan's air force will get 150 F-16 and enhance
its defence ability in a few years. Will it break
the military ratio of two sides of Taiwan Channel?
No, of course not. F-16 is not strategic weapon.
It has some kind of superior features and probably
could win in some dog-fights. But mainland won't 
not stop its military modernization. They are and
will be producing more and more sophisticated
weapons besides importing from other countries.
   And today's war don't depend only on the traditional
weapons, there are many kinds of short, mid, long-rang
missiles, nuke or not nuke heads.(terrible!)
So I don't think CG will get fear, on strategy, about 
US-Taiwan F-16 deal, but will anger for USA not respect
to China.
   As many posters pointed out, arm race is no good
for both sides. We don't like to see another Chinese
civil war(instead of invasion or anti-invasion).
   BTW, F-16 will change nothing, so I like to remind a  
dear Tainwan netter, Mr.C, don't say this without thinking

  "Taiwan's buying F-16 is only a sign that all Chinese 
  should learn and remember forever that Taiwanese have
  every intention to make their own decision on their own 
  Taiwan is Taiwanese business none of Chinese' "

Please don't be dispointed and don't be haughty either.
Friends are better than enimies.
From: yshuang@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Yongshan Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:21:44 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Engineering Resarch Center


Why fear F-16 ? One hundred and fifty F-16 surely can not 
defend Taiwan. And Taiwanese do not like war.  But I just 
don't understand why the govenment in Taiwan want to spend
so much money to help Bush's election. So stupit !

I think these F-16 can only invoke counter effect to the 
piece of the world. We will see.
From: exl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Edwin X. Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What About Tibet? (Re: What about China done to Korea)
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:12:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <65500085@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
(deleted)

>I am not Ah-Q, I think Chinese as a whole is a loser, but we should not
 ?????????????

 really?  even ah'q himself calls himself ah'q. may i call you super ah'q?
 it sounds superior, isn't it?

>blame ourselves too much.
>
>Ze Yang
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong - idiot? hero?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:16:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.144145.8932@linus.mitre.org>, 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes...
>Shen Tong - a idiot? a hero? a pawn to test the depth of China's political
>reform? or a bargain chip for trade deficit? 

None of the above. He is a brave young man with passion but without
calculation. I admire his courage but disagree with his action.
c.q.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan