HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:03:54 GMT


From creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)

>Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition? 

   Its density is very high, which means more mass, and therefore more
(kinetic) energy, can be contained in the same size projectile of it, which
makes it more effective against targets.

>How long until succesfully destroyed targets can be scrapped or cannibalized?

   If you mean how long before it's safe to do so, as soon as the targets
have stopped burning long enough to cool down, and nobody's around to shoot
at you.  Depleted uranium means uranium that has already gone through
radioactive decay, so I believe it is not radioactive anymore.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Associate (civilian) Member, United States Naval Institute
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re:  (Pre-)WW2 unit insignia id
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:08:39 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From     Will Martin <wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL>

Hi!
I have a little book from 1942 that illustrates US military insignia
and it lists a "36th Infantry Division", both in WWI and the
then-current WWII. However, the insignia it depicts for that unit, in
both wars, is a down-pointing arrowhead (with an irregular outline,
indicating a chipped-flint arrowhead), colored bright blue, with a
yellow "T" in the middle of it. [I have no idea what the "T" means;
the book gives no explanations, just pictures with unit designtions.]

One possibility that comes to mind is that the insignia you have and the
reference to the "36th" is to a Regimental crest or coat of arms. The
book has a couple pages referring to these, but gives only one example,
instead of pages of illustrations. :-( These appear to be totally
different from the shoulder-patch insignia. Perhaps someone else on the net
would have a reference depicting such crests...

And, as an aside to the other poster who was looking for the insignia for
the "116th", sorry, the book doesn't list any such unit.

Regards, Will
Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Sunday, 26 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:50:55 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Sunday, 26 July, 1942

The Eighth Army attacks the left wing of the Axis line at El Alamein, but
little success is achieved.  Once again, poor coordination between infantry
and armor is to blame.

The RAF stages a heavy night raid on Hamburg.

Britain rations chocolates and other confections.

Sir Stafford Cripps criticizes Gandhi's demands for immediate Indian
independence, claiming it would be detrimental to the war effort.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"We cannot allow the actions of a visionary, however distinguished in
his fight for freedom in the past, to thwart the United Nations' drive for
victory in the East." - Sir Stafford Cripps
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Tracers
Organization: Ham Radio Operator, Houston Tex.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:19:10 GMT


From gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)


> 
> From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
> 
> 
> 
> Are there such things as "infrared tracers"? Tracers that would be 
> visible in the infrared but not normally?

Yes, infared tracers were used in Viet Nam by the experimential 
night operations teams that flew the UH-1M Huey gunships. These 
were only experimential though when I saw them in 1971, but no 
doubt, the IR tracers are still around :-)

> 
> An interesting application of "tracers" would be the Phalanx.. I
> read somewhere that the fire control radar can "see" the outgoing
> projectiles and adjust the gun's aim accordingly.

That system is pure radar, nothing in the shell itself helps the 
radar track it, but remember, the shell is going directly away 
from the radar and is therefore easier to track.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
             Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI -
                         gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Saturday, 25 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:50:41 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Saturday, 25 July, 1942

Britain and the United States decide on a new plan for the invasion
of northwest Africa.  The operation is code-named Torch, and will be led by
General Eisenhower.

Kleist's 1st Panzer Army crosses the Don River at Tsymlyanskaya.

President Benes, leader of the Czechoslovakian government-in-exile, 
urges the opening of a second front, suggesting the fall of Germany within
a year if the invasion could be launched within 90 days.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"With one or two cargo carriers sunk every day, with tin so scarce that
brewers have been ordered to bottle beer in glass, the business of
dehydrating vegetables, fruits and eggs is booming." - Waldemar Kaempffert,
in "Science News in Review" for the New York Times
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Lee Short <short@asf.com>
Subject: Re: Muskets and Archery
Organization: ASF
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:18:49 GMT


From Lee Short <short@asf.com>

In article <1992Jul13.195407.16139@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> Joseph Askew writes:
>
>
>To the best point of this war - the Koreans were supposed to be using metal
>hulled ships! The historical records talk of steel-clad Naval vessels - 
>
>Joseph Askew
>
>

Could you please be a bit more specific here?  Did the ships truly
have metal *hulls*, or were the hulls *plated* with metal armor?  What
metal was used -- steel or iron (or yet another metal)?  Remember that
prior to the invention of the Bessemer furnace, steel was *very*
difficult and expensive to produce -- thus I find it difficult to
believe that the metal used was actually steel.

Lee
---
short@asf.com        I'll believe in Virtual Reality when they create 
Lee Short            the first virtual beer.  
Hughes Training, Inc.  |  I speak for none of the many steps in the food 
                      chain between myself and General Motors corporation.
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Tracers
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:53:58 GMT
Organization: SCTC


From beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)

ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>[....] Do they use lead or is it some exotic 
>metal in the Phalanx projectiles? [....]

Depleted uranium was what I read.  For the density, y'know.

	Mike

-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                       (612) 482-7420
Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Saturday, 18 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:22:06 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Saturday, 18 July, 1942

German forces reach the Don River near Tsimlyansky, east of Rostov.

RAF Lancasters conduct a daylight raid against the Ruhr city of Duisburg.

The Messerschmitt Me-262 flies on jet power for the first time.

Reporter: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (George Patterson)
Reference: "Ghosts" calendar for 1992.

References:
C.Argyle, _Chronology of World War II_
R.Dupuy and T.Dupuy, _The Encyclopedia of Military History_
R.Goralski, _World War II Almanac, 1931-1945_
J.Keegan, ed., _The Times Atlas of the Second World War_
C.Messenger, _Atlas of World War Two_
J.Piekalkiewicz, _Tank War 1939-1940_
Royal Institute of International Affairs, _Chronology of the Second 
	World War_
C.Salmaggi and A.Pallavisini, _2194 Days of War_
Brig. P.Young, _The World Almanac of World War II_
The New York Times, daily editions
Time magazine
Newsweek

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"Major de Seversky in a recent statement packed into nine words a basic
fact -- one that has already been definitely established.  These nine
pungent words should be engraved upon some imperishable material and hung
around the neck of every Allied Army and Navy officer and government
official upon whom any military or industrial policy-making duty devolves.
He said: "No surface operations are possible except under friendly skies.""
- John D. Wright, in a letter to the New York Times
From: atan@skat.usc.edu (Armando Tan)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Using Heat Seeing Missles
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:07:34 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA


From atan@skat.usc.edu (Armando Tan)

In article <1992Jul26.181019.28593@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:
>
>From andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
>
>
>How does one avoid fratricide (not own-goals) with heat-seekers?
>


Don't shoot your missile at your own wingmen! ;-)  Okay, generally
this is something that you want to avoid in any type
of confrontation which will result in a large explosion
and possiblility of the little pieces going at high velocity striking
one of your buddies.  I do not believe that heat seeking missiles
have any facility for a 'self-destruct' should your target not be
the one which you originally intended.


Walker

Currently standing in for atan.

No .signature. (dot seegnachure?? we don need no steenkin dot seegnachure!)
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Water Injection
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:07:55 GMT
Followup-To: sci.military
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.


From geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)



In article <1992Jul26.181112.28919@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> gnb@bby.com.au 
(Gregory N. Bond) writes:

>-> At takeoff, jets are relativly inefficient as the turbine is running
>   flat out but the airspeed is low.  What is needed is a way to
>   increase the mass flow at a lower velocity.

>On commercial jets, the high-bypass fans do this by acting as a
>propeller; the mixing in the exhaust slows (and cools) the turbine
>output which increases low-speed efficiency.


The fan output mixes with the exhaust outside of the engine, and has a 
negligible effect on the exhaust's velocity.  Once the exhaust gases 
leave the back of the engine, Newton has already had his way with things.
Also, the temperature of the turbine *output* is irrelevant because it
has nothing to do with thrust.

Water injection increases available thrust by lowering the temperature of 
the air coming out of the _compressor_.  This increases its density, allowing
a greater volume of fuel to be burned per unit volume of air.  Also, the 
cooling effect helps prevent turbine temperature limits from being exceeded
when that extra fuel is burned.  The increased mass flow you mention is the 
result of more fuel being burned per unit time than would otherwise be 
possible.


>Military engines cannot run high-bypass because that puts a limit on
>high speed performance (eventually, the fan stops helping and starts
>causing drag).  So they inject water into the hot exhaust which cools
>and slows the exhaust, giving better thrust.

Not exactly.  High performance military jets -- fighters, specifically --
tend to use either turbojets or low-bypass turbofans for two reasons:
(1) they have a smaller frontal area than high-bypass fanjets, which
allows a slimmer fuselage, and therefore less drag; and (2) high-bypass 
engines are more efficient and lower altitudes, which isn't of overriding 
concern for an interceptor or air superiority fighter (although it would be
important for a strike or ASW aircraft).


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Subject: Re: 8th AF Loss Rates for Fighters
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:57:33 GMT


From jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)

>Loss rate / 1000 sorties = 7.84 (compare to 2.5 F-105 N. Vietnam and 1.0
>F-15E Desert Storm, or 5.0 worst year for F-105)

I'm curious about how pilot survival compares with modern jets in combat,
and how people might explain any differences.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Tracers
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:35:18 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul17.191850.28918@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> frank@toadflax.ucdavis.edu (Jeremy Frank) writes:

>As a way of removing this problem for special operations where flash and
>noise suppressed weapons are common, I'd assume that tracers would not
>be used at all and that vision enhancement goggles (starlight, IR, and 
>so on)  would take over the target adjustment function.  


Are there such things as "infrared tracers"? Tracers that would be 
visible in the infrared but not normally?

An interesting application of "tracers" would be the Phalanx.. I
read somewhere that the fire control radar can "see" the outgoing
projectiles and adjust the gun's aim accordingly.







-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Murpheys laws of combat, was Tracers
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:18:36 GMT


From spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)

>			MURHPY'S LAWS OF COMBAT
>			-----------------------
 [omitted]

I believe it was General Horrocks who said, "Battle will always take
place on the seam between two maps."

dhs   spencer@panix.com
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Using Heat Seeing Missles
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:35 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul26.181019.28593@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:

>How does one avoid fratricide (not own-goals) with heat-seekers?


The two fighters in an element must keep in contact. There is a 
code word that a pilot says before he sets off a heat seeker and
his wingman is supposed to get out of the way ASAP. I think its
"Fox Two" (Fox One was for a Sparrow) but I'm probably wrong. Ran-
dy Cunningham wrote about this.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jac54@cas.org
Subject: NAVAIR in Desert Storm
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:58:33 GMT


From jac54@cas.org

In article <1992Jul28.130722.25304@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> you write:
>
>From HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
>
>In <1992Jul26.175840.27199@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jmc@sail.stanford.edu writes:
>
>> I was told that in the Gulf, the Navy was inhibited...
>> ...and that they could not co-ordinate air strikes with the
>> Air Force because of lack of high speed digital communication.  (The
>> daily 700 page air tasking document had to be delivered on floppy
>> disks.)

	It was delivered hard copy.
>
	I don't have my copy to hand but the most recent issue of
	"Proceedings of the Naval Institute" has an informative
	article on the problems of Navy electronic and air operations
	in the Gulf.  There were problems with both.  Previous
	articles and letters indicated that there were a lot of arguments
	about the accounting of missions in DS.  It seemes to be that the
	Navy and the Air Force don't count each others missions.


	Alec Chambers


If these are my organization's opinions, I'd be extremely surprised.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<Alec Chambers (jac54@cas.org)  + Americans are a broad-minded people. They'll>
<Associate Editor, CAS          + accept the fact that a person can be an     >
<Phone (614)-447-3600 ext. 3992 + alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife-beater, and >
<                               + even a newspaperman, but if a man doesn't   >
<Unsolicited Mail:              + drive there's something wrong with him.     >
<P.O.Box.21368                  +                                             >
<Upper Arlington                +  Art Buchwald.                              >
<OHIO 43221-0368                +                                             >
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: bill@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (William Logan Lee)
Subject: Re: Muskets and Archery
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:23:53 GMT


From bill@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (William Logan Lee)

Elizabeth G. Levy writes:
>I believe Napoleon's calvary wore "pigeon-breasted" armor to deflect
>musket fire on their charges.

Ed Rudnicki writes:
>The armor is of heavy steel and protected the wearer against the lead 
>projectiles of muzzle-loaders as well as the bullets from rifles like
>the Dreyse and Chassepot, and the first generation (~11mm) blackpowder
>cartridge arms. Once jacketed high velocity bullets were introduced the
>armor became useless...

Perhaps, not even that long...

 From "Men of Waterloo" p150 (John Sutherland, Prentice Hall. 1966):
 "Walking through the area where the 69th [British Regiment] had been
 slaughtered by the cuirassiers were Lieutenant Hay and the 12th Dragoons'
 commanding officer, Lieutenant Colonel Ponsonby.  The Colonel were
 interested in seeing if the cuirassiers' breast plates were bullet proof.
 Lieutenant Hay stood where the desperate action had raged.  He was
 "speechless with wonder" (1)  The colonel's voice stunned him.  He had
 called Hay to show him a breastplate he had removed from a French corpse.
 It had been shot through three times.  Hay, his thoughts now back with
 the colonel's, spotted several other bullet-riddled breast plates still
 clinging to the dead French, which he showed to his commanding officer.
 ... The Highlanders had found that the found that the breast plates made
 good stew kettles, although if one was careful he could lose some of the
 gravy through a bullet hole."
Sorry it's not a primary reference, but this should be sufficient to
show that the breastplates were not immune to musket fire (but I'm sure
that the wearers still prefered to wear them).

Bill Lee

(1) Capt. William Jay, C. B., _Reminiscences,_1808-1815_under_Wellington_,
edited by Mrs. S. C. I. Wood, his daughter, (London: Simpkin, Marshall,
Hamilton, Kent & Co., Ltd., 1901).

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: utidjian%remarque.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (David M.V. Utidjian)
Subject: Re: Altered history of warfare
Organization: Processed People for a Processed America
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:57:47 GMT


From utidjian%remarque.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (David M.V. Utidjian)

Hmmm... I seem to remember hearing that the German Army in it's in invasion
of Russia during WWII (Operation Barbarossa?) had as much as 80% of it's
artillery horse drawn.  In fact the Wehrmacht relied heavily on horses for
supplies and movement.  The W. was not fully motorized by a long shot.
The SS was fully motorized.  In WWII, the Germans relied on the train to
move most of their supplies and troops long distances.

David Utidjian 


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "Craig A. Anderson" <msc9203@geovax.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Cadences
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:24:56 GMT


From "Craig A. Anderson" <msc9203@geovax.edinburgh.ac.uk>


A couple of paperback books that may be of use to you are "Cadences, The 
Jody Call Book, Volumes I and II", they are edited by Sandee Shaffer 
Johnson.  When I purchased them at Ft. Ord, California in the Military
Clothing Sales Store a few years ago, they cost $ 2.75 each.  Admittedly
some of the cadences have been cleaned up prior to publication and thus
do not reflect quite accurately how they are used from day to day, but
they will provide a starting point for you.

Hope this was of some help.

-- 
                                                                  _____
Craig A. Anderson, Department of Geography                      /  ___  \
                           ________________                    /  /   \  \
University of Edinburgh   /# _____________O          --*      |  |  O  |  | 
Drummond Street          /##/_(/                               \  \___/  /
                        /##/                                    \ _____ /
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom, EH8 9XP                      
E-mail:  CBS%UK.AC.EDINBURGH.GEOVAX::MSC9203
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:42:02 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Jul22.170635.20599@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>What was the name of that WW1 Sergeant who singlehandedly captured
>a whole battalion of Germans? 

Alvin York. 

>(The movie, as many that were made then appear now, was of full of 
>overacting - the pacifist Kentucky backwoods boy who wanted to be a 

No no no - Tennessee, Tennessee.

>conscientious objector but was forced by circumstances to make a 
>one man attack on a German machinegun nest and use turkey psychology
>to attack the flank of the German battalion and pick them off one at
>a time...This I don't find far fetched but the part about marching 
>off with several hundred prisoners I do...)

The movie is extremely accurate as movies go. Basic history (as taught
in Tennessee school systems) is that York was a relatively poor rural
farmboy who, like most rural Tennesseans of the period, was an excellent
shot. The pre-induction period in the movie may be a little fanciful
(I don't know), but the portrayal of his combat career is factual (at
least the history books match it).

You do have to keep in mind that by 1918, many German troops were quite
demoralized and would have surrendered to anyone. Read "All Quiet on the
Western Front" for a pretty good description of the situation.

Personally, I'd find it *very* disconcerting to be "safe" in my trench
and then have rifle fire come out of nowhere which is so accurate that
I lose a buddy with every shot.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | When you're working on a project and drop
                    | something, it will never reach the ground.
                    |
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