HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Subject: Long session of bars (was Re: String Tension)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:40:54 GMT

There have been two suggestions regarding long session of bars :

1) Mark Wrote :
>   All I can do is give you my perspective as a serious performer and 
>teacher. It is possible to misuse *any* muscular/mechanical part of
>the body. The point is that by learning how to make the best use of the
>larger muscle groups (arm, shoulder, back) you can simplify 
>the essential tasks which the hand and fingers do. Obviously, there are
>many things that only the fingers can accomplish, but the larger
>muscle groups can participate and assist. This is a well established
>part of the instrumental technique for many instruments - piano, strings,
>etc. Many well known guitar teachers (including Carlevaro,Oscar Ghiglia,
>Bruce Holzman) make use of this idea. 

I think that there is some secret here. And I think that when I feel 
a little tired in my left hand, the above description is exactly
what I am doing. But then, since I put weight and slight strength
using my shoulder and arms to avoid the tiredness of my lefthand muscle, 
   1) my left arm/shoulder becomes unnatural.
   2) I also have to press my guitar with my right arm, because of
      the weight and strength of my left part on the bar.
      It should have been just natural weight of the right arm
      which makes the guitar be in stable position.
      That also makes my right hand unnatural.
So, in this case, what I do is to stop playing, relax my whole body
(especially shoulders, arms and hands), remove uncessary weight and
strength and then continue.

>  I think you are missing the point. As I said in the earlier post, this
>point is nearly impossible to communicate without having someone who
>understands it work with you physically. 

Yes. Right. This is why lesson is absolutely needed.
I wish I could find a good teacher in Houston area (I envy you, Mark 8-) ). 

2) Kent Wrote :
>There is an athletic component to playing many musical instruments -- I
>have heard musicians described as "small-muscle athletes".  In training
>the hands for the special rigors of playing the guitar you might consider
>addressing the problem of thumb strength directly.

I kind of agree with Kent.

Does anyone have any other suggestions ?

-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Yngwie Malmsteen
From: Kevin Polcovich <KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:20:43 EST
Organization: Penn State University

Yngwie Malmsteen. Any Comments on style, music, etc.?
                       Just Wondering.....Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Subject: Re: String Tension (Was Re: Kohno Classical)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:54:49 GMT

This is for Roberta Wallis who doesn't have posting previlege.
He contributed the following information to me.
Thanks.

In article <basinski-101192105147@lully.biosci.arizona.edu> basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski) writes:
>   That is the point - the hand itself needs the help of the larger
>muscle groups.
>
>   All I can do is give you my perspective as a serious performer and 
>teacher. It is possible to misuse *any* muscular/mechanical part of
>the body. The point is that by learning how to make the best use of the
>larger muscle groups (arm, shoulder, back) you can simplify 
>the essential tasks which the hand and fingers do. Obviously, there are
>many things that only the fingers can accomplish, but the larger
>muscle groups can participate and assist. This is a well established
>part of the instrumental technique for many instruments - piano, strings,
>etc. Many well known guitar teachers (including Carlevaro,Oscar Ghiglia,
>Bruce Holzman) make use of this idea. 
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu



From rwallis@nyplgate.nypl.org Tue Nov 10 17:02:48 1992
Message-Id: <9211101801.AA21968@nyplgate.nypl.org>
>To: wjin@cs.uh.edu 
>From: rwallis (Roberta Wallis)
Date: Tue Nov 10 18:01:02 EST 1992

Woody--

I'm sending this to you via private e-mail because I haven't yet obtained
posting privileges for the newsgroups.  Feel free to copy this to r.m.c.g. if
you wish.

What Mark was trying to say to you is explained very well in a book by Lee F.
Ryan, "The Natural Classical Guitar:  The Principles of Effortless Playing".
Ryan talks about allowing gravity and the weight of the arm to do the work of
the left hand (and a whole lot of other issues).  I recommend this book
highly.  It combines a very practical approach to guitar study and performance
with the spiritual aspects (very much Westernized).   It was published in 1984
by Prentice-Hall and is still available; I have seen ads for it recently.  Try
Guitar Solo in San Francisco; I believe it has also been advertised in
Acoustic Guitar magazine.

You might also consider having the action checked on your guitar, that would
certainly contribute to left-hand strain.

Roberta Wallis
rwallis@nyplgate.nypl.org

-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn)
Subject: Difficulty of _El Decameron Negro_
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:14:21 GMT

I'm thinking of trying to play Brouwer's _El Decameron Negro_, and was 
wondering how difficult it is.  For background, I've had no problems
playing any of his etudes (although I haven't tried 19 or 20 yet).

Gavin Steyn
steyn@cs.rochester.edu
"So he's had the lifelong ambition of reversing the polarity of the earth?"
From: mckinzie@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Mark McKinzie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Yngwie Malmsteen
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:24:43 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski) writes:
>KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu (Kevin Polcovich) wrote:
>> 
>> Yngwie Malmsteen. Any Comments on style, music, etc.?

>  what, is Yngwie a classical guitarist? The ony stuff I've heard from him
>is the kind of super-speedy techno-whiz plectrum playing that adolescent
>males seem to get a particularly big kick out of - not particularly
>interesting musically, at least not to me. Does he play classical
>guitar? I'm sure you can get some discussion on him in alt.guitar

I've seen rumours on the net that Yngwie *has* recorded classical guitar
works (for some reason I'm thinking Paganini here, but I could be wrong),
but that said albums were released only in his native Sweden.  I would
like to emphasize the word <rumour> here.  He also (in 1984) released
a heavy metal version of Albeniz's Adagio, which actually was quite nice
in places.  Force the man to slow down and focus on getting his instrument
to sing, and he can put out some listenable stuff.


-- 
Mark McKinzie          |    Listen, if they're going to buy lunch boxes,
mckinzie@math.wisc.edu | they might as well buy David Cassidy lunch boxes.
UW Dept. of Mathematics|
Madison, WI 53706      |                  -David Cassidy-
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Advice from Segovia
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:56:05 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:17:07 GMT
>FROM:   markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU
>
>Jim Tims writes:
>>
>>>`Are there even two worthwhile opinions on this? 8^) Parkening is absolutely
>>>all by himself.  Williams can easily outplay him, and a lot of hotrod
>>>fretboard Liberaces can tug at your heartstrings, but for intelligent
>>>musicality Parkening stands alone.
>
>I must strongly disagree here. But with no flames directed at anyone! To me
>Parkening has always been a second rate musician. This has nothing to do
>with his technical ability which is fine. To me he represents the worst of
>the Segovia tradition. While the likes of Julian Bream were getting composers

[lots of good stuff deleted.  If you missed it, go back a few posts.]

>that had not been recorded 265 times previously? Does the guitar NEED 
>more recordings of Leyenda (Asturias) or Sor's op9? I think the answer is 
>no. There are many fine pieces in the repetoire, both modern and pre 20th 

Now I really feel bad.  8^(  Couldn't agree more.

>Mark C.
>
>>>There.  Take your best shot.
>>>Maybe there's flaming in r.m.c.g after all!
>
>Was that good enough? 
>
Eminently.  Your best shot is definitely sufficient to carry the argument.
I withdraw, with the whining "reposte," that he plays Bach awfully well.
I don't mean to grovel, but leave me something.  8^)  Nice shot.

-- 
jim tims 
"And if you're a miner, when you're too tired and old and sick and stupid
to do your job properly, you have to go, whereas just the opposite applies
with the judges."  Beyond the Fringe

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: dscherer@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (duwayne.a.scherer)
Subject: Classical Guitar Xmas CD's.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:16:42 GMT

Hello Folks,

I'm curious in finding some good Xmas CD's (since the season is
around the corner).  I have L. Boydes' Xmas CD, which I like.
Any recommendations?

Thanks!
Duwayne Scherer
AT&T Bell Labs
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Subject: Re: TAB is the word...  :-)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:22:59 GMT

>   BTW, speaking of lute pieces, has anyone else found that putting a
> capo on the third fret makes the guitar sound much more "lute-like"?
> I've just started doing this recently, and I really like the sound a
> lot for Renaissance music.
> 
> Gavin Steyn
> steyn@cs.rochester.edu

Of course. This is common practice. Not only does it make the tone
color closer to a lute (believe me, closER, but still nowhere NEAR),
but it brings the tuning to match. A lute is normally tuned a third
up from conventional guitar tuning, so a capo on the third fret is
more correct.

On that note, perhaps Richard Darsie can say whether the lute was tuned
to a 440 A or a 415 A, which would change my last point.


-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: song@iastate.edu (Chang-Hyeon Song)
Subject: WANTED: "Liebestraum"
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:49:36 GMT

Hello, guitar lovers.

Anybody have sheet music of "Liebestraum"?
I really like the piano version, but I liked to try on my guitar.
Thanks in advance.

        +----------------------------------------------------------+
        |      Chang-Hyeon Song     |      song@iastate.edu        |
        |   Iowa State University   |       (515) 292-2209         |
        +----------------------------------------------------------+
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Long session of bars (was Re: String Tension)
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:54:05 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <2930630301.0.p00168@psilink.com>, p00168@psilink.com (James F.
Tims) wrote:
> Something that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that most
> guitarists "overfret."  By this I mean that the strings 
> are depressed beyond the point which is necessary to prevent them
> from buzzing. . .

 This is a very good point. Even normal fretting can be "effort-optimized"
that is made more efficient. Ideally, when you fret a note, neither
your finger nor the string need to be touching the wood of the fingerboard.

 As mentioned below, you can practice using minimal effort. Try playing a 
series of notes (say a scale, one note at a time) where you reduce the 
finger pressure until the note buzzes. THEN gradually increase the 
pressure very slightly until you can play the note without a buzz. You'll
find that this level of pressure is really not very much.

> . . . It sounds as if you may have the left side of your guitar 
> further from your body that the right, that is, the guitar neck
> may be pointing forward too much. 

  I find that having the left side of the guitar further forward than 
the right side is quite advantageous for both hands - it allows for 
a better natural leverage for left hand/arm weight, and it allows for
a more natural position for the right arm/shoulder. Obviously, you don't
want to get too extreme, but I recommend trying this.

> Make a conscious effort to bar minimally, and use precision instead
> of strength.  Learn to bar without using the thumb at all.  Actually,
> you should be able to play reasonably well without even touching
> the neck with the left thumb, at least for easy pieces.  
> 
  Another benefit to learning how to minimize the use of the thumb is
 that you discover how to let go completely, how to rest as you play...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: LH Pressure (was Re: Long session of bars...)
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:16:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <1992Nov12.191836.7566@cerritos.edu>, radams@cerritos.edu wrote:
> This is good, but make sure that your right hand is playing at a concert
> volume and not real lightly or weakly so that you won't have any false
> illusions about how light your left hand can be. 

  Naturally! It is also important that your instrument is set up 
properly, action not too low, etc.

> ... Isaac Stern and
> others recommend pressing hard with left hand to get a viril tone. This may
> not apply to guitar perhaps

  I'd say it has *limited* application to guitar for several reasons:

	1) because the guitar is fretted, the actual point of finger contact is
    not as important to pitch and tone as it is on violin.

  2) excess pressure can cause intonation problems - you'll push the note
     sharp, especially if your frets are high.

	 3) most importantly, a BIG difference between violin and guitar is that
     the RIGHT hand fingers are what we use to strike the string (and of
					course the violinists use more of the arm and wrist, along with the
     fingers, to control the bow). The essential point is that the natural
					tendency of the body is this: if you make the left hand tense, the
					right hand tends to tense ALSO. This is a basic neuro-motor response.
					Because of this, the danger with using too much effort in the left
					hand is that you can cause excess tension in the right hand). There
					is functional tension and non-functional tension, and one must 
     develop an awareness of how to minimize the non-functional tension

It is just something to be aware of. In general, it is good to practice
with
varied levels of effort. Practice a total minimum effort (in both hands), 
then add more intensity, and use you're ears to evaluate what the real
result is, in order to always use the minimum force for your goal. Note
that "minimum force" can be quite a lot (if you're playing Forte, or using
a strong vibrato), but never in excess of what is nexessary to accomplish
the
goal in  mind.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko)
Subject: Re: Any molbio types?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:10:48 GMT


I work in a molecular biology laboratory which means I have to wear
surgical gloves all day to protect myself from the reagents I handle
and vice versa. These gloves are dusted with talcum powder on the
inside which gets under my finger nails. Excavating the talc from
under them and washing my nails repeatedly makes them brittle.
Additionally, if I grow them to the length I like to play guitar with,
the gloves get lacerated rendering them useless. Has anyone else
encountered this problem and if so did you find a way around it?

George
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: dahe@cl.cam.ac.uk (David Elworthy)
Subject: Re: Tunning fork
Reply-To: dahe@cl.cam.ac.uk (David Elworthy)
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:31:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.151301.27922@decuk.uvo.dec.com>,
alberter@untadc.enet.dec.com (Ludwig Alberter) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <1992Nov4.121009.2696@infodev.cam.ac.uk>,
dahe@cl.cam.ac.uk (David Elworthy) writes:
|> >
|> >Not sure I believe this. The man who tuned the piano in my house used
|> >exactly the "biting the fork" technique. Of course, he could have been
|> >using his immense experience to make appropriate adjustements, but it
|> >doesn't seem likely to me. A test you could try is to tune your guitar
|> >by biting a fork, and then check it against an electronic tuner.
|>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> what brings us to the question: if you've got an electronic tuner why
would you
|> bite into a tuning fork ??? ;)
|> --

So you can
(a) borrow one and buy the other and have confidence they are consistent.
(b) disprove claims made on the net.
(c) not have to buy any more batteries for the electronic tuner.
(d) not have your pockets pulled out of shape by carrying it around.
(e) not lose kudos points by using it at gigs and sessions.
(f) not have to suffer the bad vibes which modern technology creates in
classical music (man).
and also because
(f) biting the electronic tuner doesn't work.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: gg@iok.unit.no (Gus Gassmann)
Subject: Re: Flamenco Recording List
Organization: University of Trondheim
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 20:01:01 GMT

In article <BxBArI.3w6@cs.dal.ca>, bulger@ug.cs.dal.ca (Fred Bulger) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov4.142939.18433@ugle.unit.no> gg@iok.unit.no (Gus Gassmann) writes:
|> 
|> >and while we're at it, i'll make a plug for another album he worked on:
|> >Passion Grace and Fire (with John McLaughlin and the much maligned 
|> >Al Di Meola)
|> 
|>   One question... which one is Passion, which one is Grace, and which one is
|> Fire ?  8^)
It's obviously meant to go in alphabetical order by their last names,
but the middle one gives me a bit of difficulty :-)

|> 
|> 						   -Fred.
|> 
|> -- 
|>   Fred Bulger                |  1-(902)-429-3057 
|>   6137 Charles St.           |  bulger@ug.cs.dal.ca  
|>   Halifax, Nova Scotia       |  fbulger@ac.dal.ca 
|>   CANADA    B3l 1K8          |  bulger@moon.sba.dal.ca
From: brent@ssd.csd.harris.com (Brent Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Yngwie Malmsteen
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:00:04 GMT
Organization: Harris Computer Systems

Kevin Polcovich <KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

> Yngwie Malmsteen. Any Comments on style, music, etc.?

This is rec.music.CLASSICAL.guitar. 

Enough said.


--
Brent Benson                     
Harris Computer Systems
From: kubipdal@uts.uni-c.dk (Peter Dalg}rd)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: How do I play my tremolo loUDER?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:34:04 GMT
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education

In <1992Nov9.174749.7557@cerritos.edu> radams@cerritos.edu writes:

>Practice the piece very slow with a very solid, round, projecting tone.
>Keep doing this until it becomes solid enough then you can gradually
>increase speed. The key is slow practice. 


Agreed. Volume before speed. Two more tricks that I was taught:

a) try changing the basic pattern  ( ami)
                                   (p   )

into (ami) or (mia) or (iam)
     (p  )    (p  )    (p  )

You can even reduce it to

(am) or (mi) or (ia)
(p )    (p )    (p )

When you can play these patterns loudly, at speeds approaching the
tremolo (I don't think you can get all the way!), loosen up and play
the tremolo pattern.

b) Covering the strings with your left hand while practicing the
right hand patterns has both the advantage of eliminating the
"stress-carry-over" effect and (for me at least) making it easier
to assess the balance of the tremolo.

	Peter Dalgaard
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Classical CDs - any suggestions?
Date: 8 Nov 92 03:09:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

>3. Julian Bream, "Guitarra: The Guitar in Spain"
>Highly enjoyable and well-recorded selection of pieces covering
>Spanish guitar history from Mudarra to Falla. The earlier pieces
>are played on recreations of original instruments.

Apparantly RCA is deleting this and the BREAM PLAYS GRANADOS & ALBENIZ
CD. Tower in NY had lots of each for $5.99 (notched boxes) a few
weeks ago.

Bill Hery
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Strings
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:42:04 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Distribution: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <YOOK1.92Nov6033810@husc10.harvard.edu>,
yook1@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Yook) wrote:
> 
> What are the best strings to use?
 I like D'Addario - the trebles are consistantly good, and the basses are
pretty good sounding AND last a long time. I really like the sound of
Augustine basses better *when they are new* (but I've found they sound
like shit after about 1 week  :(  So I usually use D'Addario J44's (super
high tension).

I've also tried the new Savaraz Alliance trebles, and I kind of like them
too. Depends on your instrument - if you need a brighter sound from the
third string, these might be a good bet. They are made of a higher density
nylon, and so are thinner.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: TAB is the word...  :-)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:34:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucdavis.19048
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <1992Nov5.194225.15430@cs.rochester.edu>, steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn) writes:
> 
>   BTW, speaking of lute pieces, has anyone else found that putting a
> capo on the third fret makes the guitar sound much more "lute-like"?
> I've just started doing this recently, and I really like the sound a
> lot for Renaissance music.

This is interesting. Did you know that the actual tonality of the 
Renaissance lute is exactly a minor third above the guitar?
In other words, "lute tuning" on the guitar is EADF#BE, but the
lute is actually tuned GCFADG. This must explain why a capo on 3
makes it sound more "lute-like".

Richard

> Gavin Steyn
> steyn@cs.rochester.edu
> "So he's had the lifelong ambition of reversing the polarity of the earth?"
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar