HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:58:00 EDT
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Film beef on CBS News

>Despite the extra footage, film critic Leonard Maltin says it's a bad idea,
>because, I quote, "it's like re-painting a Van Gogh."  He goes on to state
>that this sort of action takes away (or ruin) the original piece of work.

Any number of novels, playscripts, and other texts are published in different
editions or revisions. As long as the "original" is still available, what's
the beef? Of course, this argument is often made to justify colorization, but
in that case a third party is doing the tampering.

How often, though, does the revision really improve the original? Spielberg
released the Special Edition of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS with some pruning
that seemed to work well, and some new footage that seemed either superfluous
(the Gobi Desert scene) or ghastly (the ascent inside the Mother Ship.) The
original may have been rushed and a bit lumpy, but it's more satisfying.

It's one thing if a work has been systematically butchered, as Renoir's was by
the Nazis, or just randomly scattered, like Gance's Napoleon. That's
restoration, not revision.

Picasso (I think) said that a work of art is never completed, merely abandoned.
When you're done with it, let go and move on.

kjf-
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:16:00 EDT
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Tipper and Co.

>I think that "dysfunctional family" is redundant...

Not to mention tautological and pleonastic. (Take *that,* W.F. Buckley...)

"Nuclear family" always sounds inadvertantly belligerent to me. Come
to think of it, maybe that's the point. It does suggest interesting
alternatives, though: how about "fissionable family?"

kjf
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:16:00 EDT
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Labels and censorship

>And if you're going to judge artists because of their
hair ("hairy louts with guitars..") well....

I hope the poster who wrote this doesn't plan a career in journalism...

That's me he's quoting, and he got it wrong.

What I wrote was "a bunch of louts with guitars..."
Nary a mention of stray lanky locks. So my heinous
and corrosive outbreak of value judgement was based --
soundly, I think -- on loutishness rather than hyperpilosity.

But, as a few days of this thread have more than adequately
demonstrated, Paul Simon got it right when he wrote

                a man hears what he wants to hear
                and disregards the rest.

And speaking of disregarding things -- a word of bemused
thanks is due to The Mad Anarchist of Brown for submitting
an additional three pages of incoherent stream-of-consciousness.
Faulkner and Joyce couldn't hold a candle to this kid.

It's useful stuff though -- every morning since late May
I've struggled to teach a few dozen undergraduates, loutish
and hairy though they may be, something of the principles
of coherent utterance and rational argumentation. This thread
has provided so much material, from the burlesque to the sublime,
that the poor bankrupt State of New York can barely afford to
print it all. Keep it coming, folks.

kjf-
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Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1992 15:13:00 EST
From:         "Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again!" <ACCDAK@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Robin Hood

I'll add a personal note concerning the Kevin Costner version.  A friend and
I whiled away the time lowering the worth of the tickets we purchased to see
the film.  Now we only spent $1 each, but we were down somewhere in the 60
cent range when Sean Connery appeared on the screen.

Hoo-hah!  I perked up with the rest of the audience.  Suddenly there was a
presence on the screen.  Richard the King!  I don't know what it means other
than Connery had a magnificent presence which made everything which came
before pale by comparison.

All in all, the time spent watching RH, Prince of Thieves could be better spent
   watching almost anything else.

David   accdak@vaxc.hofstra.edu  //  accdak@hofstra
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:39:56 BST
From:         Kerr Avon <lcc@WIN.ICL.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: worthy adaptations
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AMERICAN.edu

>Tanya, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" was directed by Mike Nichols.

Just to go off on a tangent...

ITV had its bi-annual telethon last weekend.  One of the "features" was
a phone-in vote for a movie.  There were 10 or so films listed, viewers
called a special number to vote for the one they wanted to see, and the
one with the most votes was screened (presumably, Telethon got the
money from all the phone calls).  So, out of a choice that included such
films as _Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf_, _Chinatown_, _Bullitt_ and
several other worthy movies, guess which one gets the most votes?

_Hercules in New York_.   Sigh.

			Liam.
			====-
                                   * "My hamster?"
     KERR AVON    |   Work: ICL,   * "No, not your hamster. How could
 aka Liam Cairney |Reading, England*   I bang in a nail with your
  All e-mail to:- | Home: Glasgow, *   hamster?  Well, I could try..."
lcc@win.icl.co.uk |    Scotland    *     -- Manuel & Basil Fawlty
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:05:00 EDT
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Oh! What a lovely war!

OWALW was circa 1968, directed by Richard Attenborough (?).
That's all I recall

kjf-
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:59:15 CDT
From:         Carol Slingo <slingo@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject:      video store censorship
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

My neighborhood video place is one of the Sound Warehouse chain. I recently
rented DEVIL IN THE FLESH (the Italian one) in the R-rated version. If you
recall, this film was an X in theaters, but S.W. had the box on the shelf
so the buyer was free to note the rating and go elsewhere if she/he wanted
the X. There's no shortage of competition in the Chicago area! My guess is
that they follow an R policy but they also allow you to rent the box along
with the movie which I find most appealing.  I would be very unhappy if I
lived in a place where the only video stores practiced such "benign"
censorship.

I'm eager to hear more stories of your experiences in video rental. A
professional says it is not impossible to detect a pirate print. Has
anybody patronized a pirate store or pirate-supplied store? Have you ever
watched a legit print that was altered in some way (local advertising
added, for example).

On another note:  last week I rented THE RAPTURE and then over the weekend
saw Tolkin's other two, DEEP COVER and PLAYER, just because they were in
theaters where I was (total cost: $6.50). I liked DEEP COVER best because
of the brooding presence of Larry Fishburne. Has he written any other
films?

Carol Slingo
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:11:00 EDT
From:         Ray Hoy <RAY@MCO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: a probably false rumor

>>I saw Rush and neither Dylan nor Garcia was in it.
>
>Who was the bartender that ran out in the street and shouted some
>epithet.  He is some famous musician (Peter, Paul, Mary?)
>
>-scott (huddle@vttcf.cc.vt.edu)
>
>(Aren't return addresses listed in your header, regardless.)

I would come to Steve Portigal's defense here and say that some mail
systems, including my own here don't allow reply to certain addresses

I can't reply to many individuals, though some I can. I can never be
sure until I try who I can send to. Many people seem to be able to
send to me but I can't send back.

Funny thing is, unless this is another Steve Portigal, he gave me
a rough time for not replying to individuals some time back. I hear
the sound of chickens returning to roost.

In fact I tried to reply to his post just now but I think it failed.
I won't know until I get out of my system.


Ray Hoy  RAY@MCO.BITNET
Medical College of Ohio
Toledo Ohio
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:32:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      _Dracula_

>From:         "Orlanda Thompson --- Rm M1310 Bldg. 100 --- Ext. 3005"
>              <THOMPSON_O@RSO.DNET.GE.COM>

>According to a few other sources, a test sreening of the film
>recently induced some viewers to vomit, literally, so they are
>back to the drawing board, cutting out some of the more explicit
>gore, and adding some scenes to make the story line less
>confusing.  Release is scheduled for "November."

There was a small blurb about _Dracula_ in the Lansing State Journal's
advertising supplement.  Someone from the studio (my apologies for not
remembering the name) specifically denied the rumor about vomiting at
the test screening.  He said "They were on the edge of their seats,
eating their popcorn."

Personally, I prefer the vomiting story. 8-)

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:12:00 EDT
From:         Ray Hoy <RAY@MCO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Tipper and Co.

>
>Back to a depressing thought:  For the first time, when choosing a candidate,
>i get to choose not the best person for the job, but the person who will do
>the least harm.
>
>                 Joan

You must be young.  I feel like I've been making that same choice for the
last 20 years.


Ray Hoy  RAY@MCO.BITNET
Medical College of Ohio
Toledo Ohio
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From: MKERBEL@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Michael)
Subject: Serious discussion of cinema
Organization: Yale University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 10:10:15 EDT

Does anyone know of another list that focuses a little more on serious
discussions of cinema?  I don't mean semiotics necessarily, but perhaps
something in between that and Tipper Gore.  Before someone gets angry at me, I
should say that I thoroughly enjoy this list and I hope I can subscribe to it
forever.  I enjoy reading the stuff about Tipper and whether or not Dick Cavett
is an *.  I am not an elitist.  I have contributed some trivia to this list
myself, and I hope I can do that forever as well.  But I just though I'd ask
whether there is in fact another list so that I can subscribe to that one also.
Thanks.  M. Kerbel
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:19:16 CDT
From:         Buryl <BWOODAR1@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Tipper and Co.

It wasn't heavy-metal types who caused Tipper to go over the edge.  The cause
was her daughter bringing home a copy of the Purple Rain soundtrack.  When
Tipper heard "Darling Nikki" she went ballistic.  We've had nothing but grief
ever since.  She claimed at the time to target only the worst excesses, but
that has not been the case.  Anyone who has read her book or seen the PMRC
videotape can attest to her attacks at mainstream music.  This from someone
who prides herself on her collection of Beatles, Rolling Stone, and Grateful
Dead albums.  Now there's a selection of wholesome, fun-for-the-whole-family
music. Gimme a break!!

                                          B. Woodard
                                             Metalhead-at-large
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:23:00 EDT
From:         JOURL205@KSUVXA.KENT.EDU
Subject:      Visual Effects Literature

Cinema-L'ers:
        Does anyone know of any recent (last three years at most) books that
have been released on special effects?  The magazine Cinefex does a wonderful
job of relaying techniques and such, but I'm still hungry for more information
and the library here at Kent State University is decisively cinema deficient.

                                                Thanks in advance,
                                                Ryan S. Leasher
                                                Internet:JOURL205@kentvxa.kent.e
   du
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:00:22 -0500
From:         MARCI HENDRIX <HENDRIX@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Previews....

Bill, the first issue is great -- let me know when you interview secretaries.

I heard on the local news this morning that they will be filming *The Firm*
here in Memphis based on the novel of the same name by John Grisham.  I've
yet to read the book - plan to - but wondered if anyone has heard anything
further.  Actually, I missed the actual newspot, just caught the teaser.  It's
hard to sit and listen to the news when you're getting ready for work and
you live in a zoo ... Marci Hendrix
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:09:00 EDT
From:         "Mike.Simmons" <20676MES@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      a probably false rumor

Dylan was in the Dennis Hopper film titled -BACKTRACK- if I'm not mistaken.
It was a bit part.  If I remember correctly he was an artist working with a
welding torch.
Mike
MSU.
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:20:00 EDT
From:         Gary Grothman <GROTHMAG@SNYSYRV1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Cuts on TNT

Jim T. writes:
"...the film is not simply speeded (sped??) up, since
that would make the characters move and speak unnaturally; rather,
individual frames are removed (by computer, not scissors)..."

But surely, removing frames should have the same effect as speeding
the film up?  If a person is walking along, and every nth frame is
removed, his movement should appear unnaturally quick (and possibly
jumpy).  On the other hand, removing only frames where they would not
be obvious might work...certainly removing scenes is a too-often used
technique.

"...the film takes less time to show and thus fits into the TV
slot (or, on TNT, so that there's more time for commercials)."

<groan> too true.

Oh, I saw the film "Silent Running" (1972?) on A&E last night.  Ouch.
Predictable, and those cutesy robots were enough to make one sick.  How
did they operate, though...it looked to me like they used people inside
them walking on their hands, but that seems too bizarre...pretty small
people they'd have to be, too.

Well, good evening!

Gary G.
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:50:00 -0700
From:         PORTIGAL_STEVE@TANDEM.COM
Subject: Re: a probably false rumor
X-To:         cinema-l@auvm.american.edu

How could anyone mistake Gregg Allman for Bob Dylan?

------------   ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT   --------
SENT 07-24-92 FROM SMTPGATE (CINEMA-L@auvm.american.edu)

>...Any news of Bob Dylan appearing in a soon-to-be released film?
>Has he been in anything recently in a cameo-type role ...

        Could this be _Rush_ with Jason Patric and Jennifer Jason Leigh?

Review follows:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.reviews
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:39:37 +0000
From:         the Freshman Scott Huddle <huddle@VTTCF.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Star Wars mentality
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AMERICAN.EDU

>Remember Theodore Sturgeon's Rule: 98% of everything is crap.

Ok. OK.  I don't want to hear from *any* Mensans on this particular
topic.

-scott (huddle@vttcf.cc.vt.edu)
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:02:00 EST
Reply-To:     AFCOLYER@PSUCES
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was AFCOLYER@PSULIAS
From:         AFCOLYER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      vampires

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     21-Jul-1992 10:40am DST
                                        From:     Anita F. Colyer
                                                  AFCOLYER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  Remote Network Mail User             ( _IN%CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET )


Subject: vampires

Orlanda:

THANKS A LOT for the great article on vampires in general & the upcoming
Dracula movie in particular!  I have always been a horror fan (books, movies,
whatever), and look forward to seeing a couple of the movies that were
mentioned in the article.  Hip-hop vampires?  I guess I'll have to see it to
believe it.  Actually, there's a book that I just discovered in the library
here on campus that is in a similar (pardon the expression) vein; it provides a
cultural analysis of people's fascination with the world of fear/scary
movies/etc.  Its title is something like "The Thrill of Fear:  200 Years of
Scary Entertainment."  Those of you who are horror fans may be interested in
reading at least parts of this book.

And, Orlanda, I think you can e-mail me at _in%afcolyer@psuces.bitnet.  Thanks
again!
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
From: rep3s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rick E. Provine)
Subject: Re: The Rapture
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:25:42 GMT

The Rapture was an interesting and disturbing film.  Mimi
Rogers did give a fine performance but I did not buy her
conversion.  Prior to her born again status and after were
fine, but I never really felt like I witnessed her "seeing the
light" as it were.

In short, I would recommend the film, but was not as enamored
as most critics.
--
Rick E. Provine
Media Librarian
University of Virginia
rep3s@virginia.edu
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 09:16:00 CDT
From:         Becky Albitz 5-5931 <CADALBTS@UIAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Film, PoMo, sophistication

A guy who was a  film grad with me at Penn State believed that the
best example of the proliferation of post-modern attitudes in this
country is the overwhelming success of "Nick-at-Nite".  Not the
most sophisticated example of Post-modernism (not really an example
in the academic sense, if one can truly define post-modernism) but
useful to our understanding.
Becky Albitz
University of Iowa Libraries
From: gpn0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GARY PHILIP NEWHART)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Censorship
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:48:17 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Regarding the blockbuster video censorhip issue, I agree that if the store
distributes censored cinema, i hope that the store has un censored versions as
well. The store does have the right to provide only censored material, and you
and i as consumers have the right to rent our material elsewhere. If
Blockbuster does follow a censorhip policy, I'll go elsewhere and support
another store. And as pointed out in the last article, what is the definition
of censorhip in this case....I suggest that any editing to a film is
censorship. From a business standpoint, perhaps making edited versions
available will increase sales; this may also increase costs. Maybe Danforth
Quayle will be available next spring to work for Blockbuster as a consultant.
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:34:00 CDT
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Fisher, cultural illiteracy, stream-of consciousness

>Oh no, not another one mentioning Faulkner & Joyce without the least
>idea of what they write...  Who perpetuates this Cliff Notes ideas?

I don't necessarily agree with kjf's politics, but I haven't seen any
indication that he is misrepresenting the sacred interests of western
literature.  On the contrary, I think Faulkner would probably agree with
kjf's sentiments on cultural illiteracy.  He (Faulkner, that is) made
very few concessions to the reading public of his day.  At the very
least, Bill would have been amused at the wrath stirred up by kjf's
pointed remarks.  I find kjf's posts to be highly entertaining and
heuristic.  Instead of venting moral spleen upon one of our own,
we should be applauding Cinema-L's own Oscar Wilde of the Internet.
Then again, perhaps Addison de Witt is the more appropriate model.

j-man

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
From: MKERBEL@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Michael)
Subject: Re: Serious discussion of cinema
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:12:16 EDT

In article <CINEMA-L%92072710110237@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>
Becky Albitz 5-5931 <CADALBTS@UIAMVS.BITNET> writes:
>There is a list which tends to be a bit more focused in its discussion
>of cinema (not that what we don't talk about isn't focused)
>SCREEN-L subscription address is LISTSERV@UA1VM.bitnet or
>LISTSERV@UA1VM.UA.EDU.  Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the suggestion.  I have looked for SCREEN-L and couldn't find it,
but I'll keep trying.  -- M. Kerbel
 
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:51:08 EDT
From:         "Judith E. Schrier" <PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: hand that rocks da cradle

>I paid a dollar to see it, so it was well worth the money...the story is
>incredibly predictable once you have heard the basic plot from someone else.
>
>Anyway, the film is kind of crap, but it's so consistent that it can be
>enjoyable.  I'd like to hear comments but not putdowns from anyone else
>that had feelings about the film.     Steve
I saw _Hand That Rocks the Cradle_ on an airplane, without
renting a headset. I didn't get the feeling that I was
missing anything, or that I didn't understand everything
that was happening. Didn't even miss the (probably)
portentous music that must have accompanied the scary
parts. Since I was travelling on a coupon I earned by
being bumped from another flight, I got away even cheaper
than Steve!

judith

Judith E. Schrier, Editor              Laboratory Primate Newsletter
PRIMATE@BROWNVM                        Box 1853, Psychology Department
PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU              Brown University
401-863-2511                           Providence, RI 02912
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:32:35 EDT
From:         ken kerr <KKERR@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject:      opening comments

Good day ladies and gentlemen, I am brand new to this conference and would like
 to know why Jack Nicholson did Mantrouble.  Having subscribed to other discuss
ions I found them lacking in knowledge of this actor but on the other hand tota
lly absorbing in the participants passion for open discussion.  I hope to find
your comments just as nutritious. Ken kerr, Humber college, Ontario.
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