From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Striking technique and standing armlocks
Summary: 'Standing locks' tactically an alternative form of temporary clinching
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 13 OCT 92 09:13:23    


Scott Taddiken (taddiken@ms.uky.edu) observes ...

>>Kelly seems to have spent her time demonstrating (what seem to me) some
>>fairly elementary armlocks.  I've said it before: In my experience, it is
>>almost impossible to get a STANDING armlock on an experienced grappler,
>>although it could be argued that the threat of that armlock helps to set
>>up your opponent for certain throws (the two sleeve, over the shoulder
>>throw comes to mind, sodetsurikomigoshi).  Otherwise, it seems like she
>>showed good stuff.  I've found that the key to a successful armlock
>>is to control the opponent's body.  Wrap your legs around the disagreeable
>>so and so.  Make love to his arm. :)

Ollie (Lucifuge, ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie) replies ...

>Though what you say is true, you are looking at it very much from a
>judokas perspective. Kick your opponent hard in the groin and you'll
>find the armlock goes much easier. This is why I supplement aikido with
>Kempo (Parker's that is).

Scott,

To me, you have to look at the tactical purpose of the lock.  Few opponents are 
equally good in all areas, so you have to be able to intuitively pick 
strategies that take advantage of their weaknesses and avoid their strengths.  

The use of a 'standing' lock in self-defense in many arts is usually not as an
immobilization, or to set up a throw, but to serve a key role in the throw as 
well.  I think your perspective, if I understand it, is that in grappling 
range you can't retain the lock itself long enough to use it either to 
immobilize or as part of a throw.  

In Aikido, Aikijutsu, and Hapkido, for example, extensive use is made of
standing joint locks integrated into throws.   But the first step is generally
getting the lock set-up, which is the difficult part unless the opponent
leaves a big opening by extending their arm (more likely in self-defense than in
sport).  

So, as Ollie said, *strikes* invariably become part of the set-up for the lock, 
for people who need to apply it practically in self-defense in a dependable way.
The alternative, such as the leading principle in Aikido, works very well but
requires a fairly large gulf in timing and balance skills to rely on.

One big question is, 'why do you need the lock afterall, if you are able 
to hit the opponent with strikes ?'

The answer is that it depends on the situation.  Against a superior grappler,
you wouldn't want to tangle up and try to put a lock on, even if you could,
and even after strikes, because they can potentially recover and reverse your 
advantage.  Against a person superior in kicking and striking, the lock puts 
them off their game, if you can get it on, and has a better chance of letting 
them get back into the fight than if you try to follow up with strikes.  

Can you always get a standing lock ?  Of course not.  Against a superior 
striker, you probably won't get a clean set-up strike in, but there's still an 
outside chance of using timing and surprise to tie up a limb, just as you could
use those factors sometimes to force a clinch and go into an infighting or
throwing situation.  So, the 'standing lock,' to me, serves the same tactical
purpose in self-defense as a clinch, to tie up the opponent in preparation to 
take them down.   If you could move right into a throw, such as the Aiki
projection throws, that would almost always be more efficient, but you won't
always get the right opening for those.

At least, that's the way I think of it.  You quickly determine what your 
opponent is good at countering, and you do something else.   Standing locks
are an alternative to clinching, when used against an opponent who uses 
strikes.  Sometimes, an opponent lashing out at you while you are closing
with them or while trying to chase you will leave a good opening for a standing 
lock into a projection throw (like Aikido Ikkyo, and others).  

						kind regards,
							todd
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| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
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