From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: Records and CD quality
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:30:24 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

> '84 was among the better years for the recordings since DCI started using
> digital recording, but none of the years hold a candle to Ken Kobold's
> material from the late 70's to the early 80's.  The reason is simple...
> it's not the technology, because the technology is now better.  It's because
> Kobold was an infinitely better engineer for drum corps than is Larry Rock.
> Even the best equipment won't save a recording from shitty engineering.

Kobold was very clever, but there were also big flaws with his recordings,
especially from the period you describe.  His mike placement made the
closers in 1979 and 1980 virtually inaudible whenever the company front
was up close to the crowd.  Listen to BD 79/80, and Spirit 79/80.  The
horns get MUCH SOFTER at the end of the show!  81 was one of the worst,
because his mike placement really couldn't handle the addition of the
pit (although the worst part of that year was the location of the staff).
 
Now I'd like to see what Ken could have done with Larry's equipment.
Larry's mikes are far superior and generate much more presence in the
horns (at least for 1984-1987).  I would guess that Ken would lower these
mikes and move them back a bit.  I think the current mike placement tries
to minimize crowd noise and balance the pit better.  I think this placement
has been in use since 1988.  But the presence of the horns is so much
better during the 1984-1987 years that I would prefer a return to the old
mike placement.
 
> Ask any audiophile why Telarc has some of the most natural sounding orchestral
> recordings in the US market.  Reason: minimalistic miking.  This is the
> reason the Mercury recordings from the 50s and 60s rival most of today digital
> recordings for clarity.  It is not so much the technology...it is the people
> who are applying the technology.

Agreed.  But I'm not sure the same approach automatically works for
drum corps.  It did before the addition of the pit.
 
> To anyone who doesn't believe me: all you have to do is pick up the *Phantom
> Regiment Classics* CD or the *BD-SCV* 3 CD set and listen to the cuts from
> the mid to late 70s...I think you'll be astonished at the clarity compared
> to what we've had to listen to the past few years on the recordings.
 
I have these.  You're right, but then Ken didn't have to contend with the pit.
What strikes me also is how much better of a MIX was done on the
RECORDS in 1982 than what is on these CDs.  I can't understand it.  The horns
in BD's 1982 show are way under balanced (on the CD), especially in "Pegasus".
But this is not the case on the record!  Must be in the mix, because it
is definitely the same masters.  Now the mix for Ken's recordings for
1976 and before is IMPRESSIVE on the CDs.  The same problems I cited
above (company fronts are quieter) still exist for the 79/80 shows, on
the CD or the records.  But the 86 BD recording is excellent, especially
if played through a good system.  The imaging is great, it's like you're
there.  But 89 SCV is disappointing... again I think it's due to the new
mike placement.  82 Phantom suffers equally from a poor mix on their CD
(sounds better on the original record).  84/85/86 are missing from the
Phantom CD, so I can't support my point there.

I return to my original assertion that the 84 recordings are the best.  It
would be interesting to know what mike placement was used, because they managed 
to get great horn presence, great imaging, and not a bad balance of the pit.

> When I sit in my favorite spot, what I hear is the sound of a drum corps
> FROM ONE POINT IN SPACE.  This is what the recordings should emulate if one
> is interested in a realistic reproduction of the event.

Tough to do with all those darned people in the audience!  Also, your point
is somewhat misleading since what it really should do is emulate the original
sound, so that when you listen to the recording, from your NEW ONE POINT IN
SPACE, you hear the sound you would have heard from one point in the
seats.  If you record from one point, the effect is not always the same.

On a humorous note, the 1981 records are so bad in this regard that there is
actually a disclaimer on the record jackets that states: "imagine you are
sitting on the sidelines with the corps staff listening to your corps".
I kid you not!  But I should add that Ken Kobold fought successfully to
move the corps staff for the sake of the recordings.
 
> With a simple 2-mic set-up, pit balance should be the biggest problem facing
> engineers, but the other problems cited are, to me at least, much more
> serious and should be addressed first.

I agree here, to a point.  That is, I'd prefer to have the horn
presence and accurate imaging in the 84/85/86 recordings even if
it makes the pit balance a little off.
 
> but I think all would agree that it could be improved from its current state,
> yet I've heard no improvement for the past 5-6 years in the CD sound quality.
 
Recording quality before Ken Kobold was terrible.  His recordings of the early
and mid-70s are excellent.  For some reason, his recordings in the late 70s
were not as good.  The 1981 recordings were very poor, because of the addition
of the pit and also the unfortunate position of the corps staff (this latter
was corrected in 1982).  Then Jim Unrath and Larry Rock took over (I think in
82).  The 1982 records were good, perhaps slightly better than Ken's.  The 
83 recordings sounded "compressed" and I think therefore slightly worse than
Ken's.  Then a change of microphone technology was introduced in 1984.  The
results were a dramatic improvement.  It was the first time that the horn
power was accurately recorded, and the first time that the digital recording
technology was used to advantage.  1985 and 1986 were similar, but I think
that the miking became a little sloppier (perhaps they were so pleased with
themselves over the 1984 recordings?), and they aren't quite as good.  The
miking in 1987 was especially sloppy.  The Blue Knights recording sounds as
if half of the mikes aren't even turned on.  Phantom's recording is so out
of balance that you can't even hear much of the field percussion over the
pit noise.  VK's show is entirely drowned out by crowd noise.  At this time
I wrote to DCI and complained that Ken's recordings (he was still making
his own tapes of finals) were actually starting to sound better than DCI's,
because you could hear the corps over the crowd!.  I think they got a lot
of similar complaints that year, so the next year (1988) they raised the
mikes substantially and placed them closer to the field.  This is the
arrangement that has been in use since then.  There is no doubt that
crowd noise has been reduced, as has pit noise.  But since the horns
are usually pointing "under" these mikes, they aren't recorded with the
clarity or presence of the prior ones.  My first impressions of the 1988
recordings were good, because of the reduced crowd noise and the fine
sound WHEN THE CORPS IS FARTHER BACK on the field.  But in the last few
years I have changed my mind.  The sound is far more muffled.  The difference
in sound between the 1988-1991 CDs and the 1984 records is really striking.

I have a friend that is an audiophile stereo technician.  We compared the
1986 BD CD with the 1988 BD CD on the best system in his store at full
volume.  There is NO comparison.  The 1988 sounds like it's being played
through a stereo, while the 1986 sounds like you're there.  The imaging is
so much better ... you can close your eyes and pick exactly where various
performers are.  Then we tried the 1984 Garfield recording (from "State of
the Art II" and Garfield's CD set, as well as the records).  The impact
of the horns and imaging were so fine that you could almost see the drill
with your eyes closed, even if you haven't seen it before.  Of course you
need a very good stereo and room (and speakers) to achieve this effect.

Let me add that these are only my opinions.  I should also add that this
new idea of using surround sound to put the crowd in back sounds great!!
I'd also like to see more studio recordings of drum corps.

Scott