HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Steward's office restructuring.
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:25:54 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Jul28.145629.17772@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:

>> A servicemark is like a trademark: a registered name used for conducting
>> a particular business.

>That's basically what I guessed, too, but what has it got to do with the
>SCA?  What do they want to register?

If the Corporation registered "SCA" and "Society for Creative Anachronism"
then if someone used "Society for Creative Anarchism" or somesuch, we could
(try to) stop them. If someone decides to sell T-shirts that said "SCA --
We Love Satan" or somesuch, we could stop them. 

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:26:09 -0400 
From: Nils Hammer <nh0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: pentacles & crosses:correction

I have been corrected about my previous post where I said 50%
of 400 known crosses were related to christianity. The reference
follows:

Webber, F.R. (1938) Church Symbolism: An Explanation of the more
important symbols of the old and new testament, the primitive, the
mediaeval and the modern church, 2nd e., revised, J.H. Hansen, Cleveland

p.99 "There are over four hundered forms of the cross. Of these, about
fifty have been used in christain symbolism. Many of them undoubtedly
had their origin in heraldry, and are included in most of the standard
books on the subject of the Christian symbolism."

You may like to note that one example was a cross of 4 ermine points.

And as for that swastika stuff, yes I accept that it is upsetting for
many, but there are some people who are trying to rehabilitate it to
its previous position, and not let the weirdos have it all to themselves.
But then the rehabilitators are probably pretty weird themselvs. If you
can stand to read the book "modern primitives" you can learn about one of
them. Maybe in a hundred years we will want to chang the heraldry rule.

Nils K. Hammer
nh0g@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Horse of a Different Candor (was Re: "Twinkie" names and "of X")
From: z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:43:30 CST
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <3191@creatures.cs.vt.edu>, jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes:
> Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
> prayers for the blessings of Allah.
> 
> Wolfrick recently posted in response to Arval:
> 
>>I believe that an appropriate translation of Pierre Cheval might be
>>"Horse Peter."
> 
> Far be it from me to denigrate a pleasant little exercise in scatology, but
> you are wrong on this.  And, I fear, so also is Master Arval who argues
> that Pierre Cheval was likely a horse-merchant's name.
...deletion...
> "Horse Peter" was probably "Peter, Knight," and usually he was endowing
> abbeys with lands (as most of the charters suggest) rather than being 
> well-endowed himself.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Hossein/Greg

Lord Hossein!  I am SHOCKED!!!                               :)
It was NOT my intention to suggest that said Pierre Cheval   :)
was purporting to be well endowed.  Quite simply, I intended :)
to suggest that in answer to the question "which Pierre?"    :)
answer might have been, "you know, _Horse_ Pierre." as       :)
opposed to _bartender_ Pierre, _blacksmith_ Pierre, etc.     :)
where the noun "Horse" becomes an adjective providing some   :)
bit of information to differentiate the person indicated.    :)

Again, I am shocked and dismayed by this shameless inference (about thirty
smileys here).

(Hossein, I tend to agree with your interpretation.  Thanks for the info.
It is indeed a pleasure to know you, and have you as a memeber of this our
collective Society.)

Wolfrick Thorinsson, Shire of Greywood, Ansteorra
 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Steward's office restructuring.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:41:35 GMT

Gentles All,

While looking through Reitstapp's Armorial General (a massive
compilation of European arms, both civic and personal) a couple of years
ago, I found:  

     Vittorio (Italy) Or, a laurel wreath, vert. 

Sound familiar?

How 'bout:

      S.C.A. Or, a laurel wreath vert.

I also found several other direct conflicts with SCA arms, but none
stick in my head as vividly as the above conflict.

In light of this conflict I wonder if the arms of the SCA are defensible
as a service mark at all? After all, somebody else used it before us and
might still be using them.  Any of you legal types want to comment? :-)

Creating yet another tempest in a teapot,

Lothar von Katzenellenbogen \|/
                             0.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Rapier "Weights" (was Re: Rapiers and honor)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:54:16 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Aryk (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>I put it to you that SCA fencing tries to create a sport which emulates
>rapier combat.  A small difference, but an important one.

No, SCA fencing tries to create a martial art that emulates rapier
combat.  The emphasis is not on purely athletic competition.  We 
don't attempt to "humiliate" our opponents (a phrase often used
in sports) and (most of us, anyway) don't believe that winning a
tournament makes us "better" than an opponent, or even a nonfighter.

A big difference, I believe, but an important one.

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:40:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <712383439.F00002@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
 [A long and reasoned discourse with the recurrent theme:
	-"Save the filk for the post-revels."-]

Interkingdom anthropology time once more.  I know of at least one kingdom
(the West) where there are no post-revels.  Not only we don't hold them,
we don't really have the concept.  This may be because we camp so much.
If your event is in a hall in a city, it's easy to say, "Now at this
event we're going to be Really Authentic, and then we'll go to Suzie's
house for the post-revel and sing the Moose Song."  But when your event
is out in the boonies anywhere from two to ten hours from home, when the
event is over you go _home._

So we have a much thinner semipermeable membrane between the period and
the perioid.  Myself, if I'm presenting a song at Court in my capacity
as Bard of the Mists, it's going to be a contrefait on a period tune.*
If I've written perioid lyrics to a 20th-century tune, I'll do it at
Master Flieg's bardic, where (as I've indicated) almost anything goes.

_______
*Unless it's a war song, in which case _almost_ anything goes if it's a
good war song.



Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:22:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712043902.F00008

AN>  From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
AN>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AN>
AN>  In article <711716686.F00002@therose.pdx.com>
AN>  Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
AN>
AN>  >.... I do think a suit might be
AN>  >threatened, especially since it can readily be proved that the SCA
AN>  is *not*
AN>  >the sponsor of the Renn Faire movement, but their guest betimes.
AN>
AN>  I certainly hope that making a mistake like that isn't actionable.
AN>
AN>  Rather than suing this fellow's police department (though that should
AN>  be
AN>  an option), it might be more worthwhile to prepare an information
AN>  packet for
AN>  local police departments, written in consultation with both Scadians
AN>  who are
AN>  cops in real life, and cops who have had favourable experiences with
AN>  the
AN>  SCA.  This approach has certainly made crossing the US-Canadian
AN>  border
AN>  easier; both for Scadians and other re-enactors.

Aryk is of course right. I appologize. Always take the more constructive 
course first...always.

It's this da*ned Pictish blood, with the berserker thrown in in about 
1100...

Down! Down, I say!  ;-)

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: polito@husc8.harvard.edu (Jessica Polito)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:48:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Jul23.094841.14087
Distribution: rec
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Greetings, gentles all!  I do realize that this thread has continued far to
lond for saome people's tastes, but I do have on question.
In regards to the use of "of" in period names, I have reason to believe
that, at least in Italian, "of" (well, "di", which translates to of) was
used before a patronymic.  My own name, Fiammetta Adalieta di Damiano Leo,
was formed along this model; I have found examples of it in Boccacio's
Decameron, among other places.  Perchance I do not remember all of the
discussion, but there are at least some uses of "of" other than preceeding
place names which are, indeed, period.
--Fiammetta
 
-- 
Humans...  God's attempt to pass the Turing test.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:32:34 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Aryk (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>While rapier fencing is certainly wild and reckless as compared with
>SCA fencing (driving a car is reckless compared with SCA fencing), we
>are not so foolish as to put our eyes at risk.

>For those who have never seen us fence with rapiers, we do not wear masks.
>Instead, we have large leather-covered corks tied to the ends of our
>swords, based on an Elizabethan illustration reproduced in _Patterns of
>Fashion_ by the pattern of fencing jacket we wear.

Since there is a record of at least one Elizabethan fencing master
who accidentally took the eye of a student during practice, and even 
people who faced the hardships the 16th Century citizens considered it 
to be a dangerous sport (Arbeau wrote that ladies did not like to be 
present at fencing matches, lest they might be injured by a shattered 
blade) that is hardly encouraging.  But at least you haven't adopted
a similar level of authenticity with regard to cooking and camp
sanitation. ;-)

-- Nicholas van Leyden





Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why the "No Landedness" policy?
Date: 17 Jul 92 04:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711615569.F00001

TN>  Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send
TN>  greetings and
TN>  prayers for the blessings of Allah, and especially unto Master Arval,
TN>  _amico
TN>  meo_.
TN>
TN>  Master Arval recently posted a selection from Corpora on landedness:
TN>
TN>  I agree strongly with Master Arval that the reasons for this
TN>  prohibition
TN>  are probably closely tied to our geographical-organizational
TN>  structure and
TN>  the fear that someone might claim authority over someone else on
TN>  "his" lands,
..[ ]..
TN>  throw light on why the statute is in place, but it does not provide
TN>  an
TN>  adequate exegesis of the text.  My strong suspicion is that any king
TN>  who
TN>  tried to enfeoff any save the above-mentioned dignitaries would
TN>  provide
TN>  more illumination still as he glowed in the dark after the BoD's
TN>  nuking.
TN>
TN>  I also think that this is a glaring case of the law being an ass.
TN>
TN>  Best Wishes,
TN>
TN>  Hossein/Greg

Well, what do we do about it?

How many here think it makes little medieval sense to have shires that have 
no shire-reive (sheriff) and that we could do this better?

(And how many "Sir william of Boggy End"s are well known in their local 
group as being the lord and master of what is called Boggy End? We get 
around this one anyway...illegally...all the time.)

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon)
Subject: Re: SCA Rapier combat illegal?
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 13:24:31 EDT

wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson) writes:

> From article <1992Jul20.125023.19889@progress.com>, by schuldy@progress.COM (
> > Wolfrick and I were having a discussion in email about rapier
> > fighting in the SCA, and he mentioned the possibility that
> > Louisiana law (which is different from most states, since it
> > is based upon Napoleonic Law rather than Common Law), has laws
> > on the books that make dueling illegal.
> > 
> 
> Apparently this is true even in Arkansas.  The laws prohibit dueling
> and if I remember correctly state swords as one of the prohibited
> weapons.  The funnny thing about this is that the Universities 
> teach fencing which should offficially be illegal.  The point to check
> is:  Is rapier combat really a duel since no one is to be hurt or
> killed?  If a fighting with swords is illegal, then all the fencers
> should be tossed in jail...

Uller's beard!
A duel involves a dispute, and seconds, and agreed upon terms of
resolution, and an intent to at least injure.  SCA fighting resembles
this (any SCA fighting) about as much as a Holstein cow resemles a
puffin.

Graydon

        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Sex, swords and pagans
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:10:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Diamon Isamu (Tim Chase) writes:

>I was a big suporter of fencing in the SCA until people in my Kingdom
>left the art in the background. What I mean is the fencing community
>started to refer to the SCA fencers as the Zebra team. That they were saying
>was that if you fenced these people would get big red marks from being
>slapped with the broad of the blade. I found it very difficult to fence
>the people here because they had no real formal training and my blade
>would offten be bent from a charge that should have been stoped by
>"right of way".

Occassional slaps are a problem, especially with new fighters, 
but the problem can be solved by proper training in point control.
"Right of way" is a modern concept that has no relationship to
rapier combat.  If a fighter charges into your blade, he's dead -- 
if someone is doing this deliberately, either he has a blow-calling 
problem or he's not taking the game seriously.  Either way, someone
needs to talk to him.  Or am I missing something?

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: smelvin@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (The Black Bard  )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Poem by the Black Bard (correction)
Date: 31 Jul 92 20:01:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


                     SO YOU WISH TO BE A BARD
                                By Rathflaed DuToutNoir
                                The Black Bard of Meridies 
                                mka: Stephen R Melvin

So you wish to be a bard young one, well listen to my tale,
A tale that's riddled with success, and yet the times that I have failed.
A storyteller tell his tales until the morning light,
Each line and verse the one that you'll remember through the night.
A troubadour will sing and play to make people laugh or weep,
And feel the feelings he does feel, until they go to sleep.
A musician has the talent to make music with his art,
And let his songs reverberate to touch the mind and heart. 
A minstrel must do all these things and do them very well,
But a bard must also do them, and between, tis hard to tell.
For a minstrel and a bard could be the same in word and voice,
But the difference between the two is a matter of their choice.
A minstrel's job to entertain, a bard's to educate,
To urge the men on for honor and love, and not for malice or hate.
A minstrel will sing only songs to please his audience well,
A bard must choose most carefully, the tales that he will tell.
For in your words you have the pow'r, to make or break a man,
And all his good and evil deeds are yours to praise or damn.
So use your power carefully, and wisely use your art,
For though they might prefer a minstrel's voice, tis you must touch their
heart.
And if the talent is not yours, to move the souls of men,
Then call yourself a minstrel, and no dishonor do intend.
For when a bard does sing a song,the story they do hear,
And yet the choice is for a minstrel when the song must please the ear.
So entertain, young minstrel, or educate, young bard,
But either path of either life, you'll find may be too hard.
For when the storm is blowing and the rain comes down in sheets,
Tis ten more leagues that you must go to sing for bread and meat.
And when the road is lonely, and you have no place called home,
Remember that it was your choice, to travel and to roam,
And when you think of lady loves and all the things you lack,
Remember sir, the one you always carry on your back,
And remember too, this one last thing, when your journey you begin,
A minstrel does not scream or shout to carry o'er the din,
A bard's not just a storyteller or harper playing long,
A minstrel's job it is to sing, a bard's to be the song.

                                        30 Jul 92


(I found out the "just" in the penultimate line did scan after
all...;))
Have a fine, fair, day...
Rathflaed
-- 
Rathflaed DeToutNoir              Bards make the best lays!!   
The Black Bard of Meridies         -Me 
mka: Stephen R Melvin
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:24:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Jul24.162423.25899
Organization: Organization???

Nicholas van Leyden writes:
>Palymar (REED E HARRIG) writes:
>
>>Is the SCA just a harbor for any activity that can be remotely
>>documented as being done between 600 - 1600?  I await your comments.
>
>Unless someone has changed our charter (Corpora) while I wasn't
>looking, the answer to that question is "yes."  The only legitimate
>exceptions I see are ... 2) things that are impossible to recreate safely.  
>Rapier combat does not fall into [this category].  Therefore, it should
>be allowed.  
 
Oh really.  So, just exactly how is rapier combat, with blunted steel 
weapons of historically accurate mass and balance, safer than sword-
and-shield combat, with blunted steel weapons of accurate mass and 
balance?  I don't think that I would find being inadvertently skewered 
any less hazardous than having my helm -- and the head inside it -- 
inadvertently split open.  

>Rapier combat is much better documented than the tournament combat
>of the rattan fighter.  I can document single combat between armored
>fighters, taking place on foot, but I doubt that most people in the
>SCA can, and I wouldn't begin to compare it to the volume of documentation
>on rapier-style combat.  
 
It should go without saying that the available documentation for 
early period practices are almost never comparable to that for 
late period practices.  All that this excessive concentration on 
documentation can do is turn the Society into a bunch of Renaissance
swishes. 

Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Anonymous hate mail
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:39:02 GMT

>Unto all the gentles on the Rialto, from Terry Nutter -- Angharad knows
>nothing of this sort of thing -- greetings.  I preface this by saying     
>that I know well that what is below has no application whatsoever to
>the overwhelming majority of you; unfortunately, this is my only way      
>of communicating with those to whom it does apply.  To the rest of you,   
>I apologize for bringing up something so unsavory.                        
>                                                                          
>In the last 24 hours, my account has received three pieces of sheer,      
>unadulterated hate mail originating from this group.  In two cases,       
>the individuals sending the mail did not sign their transmissions,        
>or otherwise identify themselves.  Neither mentioned anything that        
>could remotely be called a principle: they were personal vituperation     
>with absolutely no other elements.                                        

Hossein, I would like to appologize for this.  I didn't, of course,
*send* the mail in question, but I'm sure that I am the cause of
it, for if you had not been defending me from those who call me
"discourteous" then you would not be receiving these attacks.

Hossein, Edward, Tadhg, Angharad and others who have posted in my
defense, I thank you.  But please, do not feel that it is
necessary.  I am willing to take the heat myself, and see no sense
in your being put into this situation.

To the anonymous hate-mailer.  My address is below, and if you wish
to flame in private, send them to me.

Be warned that I am perfectly willing to follow any legal or moral
recourse that seems to be available to me, including reposting your
message, in whole or in part, to the Rialto, including your name or
Email address.

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:23:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712089041.F00001

In a message to Nancy Lebovitz <07-24-92 13:17> Suze Hammond wrote:

SH>  NL>  From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
SH>  NL>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
SH>  NL>
SH>  NL>  The Wall Street Journal always uses drawings rather than photos as
SH>  NL>  far as I can tell, unless it's talking about an advertising
SH>  NL>  campaign where a photo is the actual subject matter.
SH>
SH>  I never really noticed! How odd...
SH>  I thought drawing for newspapers was a lost art. (My grandmother did
SH>  it for a living...)
SH>
SH>  Why? Does anyone know?

Just a guess, but drawings do *not* have to be "screened" to create 
"halftoned" images before printing. This saves both time *and* money. Ask a 
local printshop that does offset printing (or any of the other types used by 
newspapers) for an estimate on adding a photo to a page of text. Try not to 
drop dead of shock! 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca