HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:39:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

wayne trzyna (trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU) wrote:
: 
: OK.  Against my own better judgement, I guess its time once again for what
: is becoming an annual, ceremonial, ritual celebration of the near arrival
: of winter: my debunk the telemark-myth post.
: 
: I'm sorry, I just don't believe that a good telemarker can ski compatibly
: with equally adept downhillers.  I have skied with telemarkers who are
: better skiers than me, but they could not keep up and were therefore not
: much fun to ski with.  It's just not true.
  
I think the key phrase here is "equally adept". I think we are all in agreement
that it takes more skill to ski a given set of turns on pins (not sure about
those kneehigh carbon fiber cable/plate/full release 1mm "free" heel things).

If you are going to outski an immortal pinhead, though, you better be an
immortal alpine skier. I question whether anything is really being "debunked"
here.

cheers,
scott
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: "Ski Mountaineering" (?) advice wanted.
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:47:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.182859.3025@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> In article <26791@castle.ed.ac.uk> W.Warburton@ed.ac.uk writes:
|> > What I would like to know is how much I need to learn & what equipment
|> >would be necessary to combine walking & skiing in winter. Essentially
|> >I am considering climbing Scottish mountains & skiing back down them
|> >but I do not know how ambitious this is, or how to find out.

There are some books available specifically relating to Ski de Rando in
Scotland.  Remember that more people die on Ben Nevis per year than
on the Eiger - so be careful out there.

David.

P.S. the RAF are pretty good at picking you off Ben in most weather conditions
and certainly knock spots of the whinging French Secours.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Peopl who looklike skiers but aren't was My first experience with a Texas Skiier
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:23:00 GMT

In article <14980@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM
(John Fereira) writes:
>>Gee, I recall this one woman in Sun Valley once, yuck.  Just stood around
>>all day, paid for a lift ticket and everything.  Helped Idaho's economy
>>at least.

>They couldn't have spent *all* their time standing then I guess.

All day long she stood there.  Walking, kibitzing, etc.
And it was that day's ticket.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:26:28 GMT

In article 13814@delfin.com, mr@delfin.com (Mark Rosenberg) writes:
>
>A strong telemark position is not necessarily a low one. It has more
>to do with weight distribution on *both* feet. Beginning tele skiers
>are generally easy to spot (even when they are not covered with snow).
>They drop into a low telemark position with the trailing ski so far
>back that they are unable to put any weight on it to control it and
>get it to carve. 

As an early season muscle builder, I will go find a blue square cruiser
slope, and ski it as fast and low as possible.  I agree that you need
weight on the rear ski, or I tend to catch the inside edge.  Concentrating
on your pinky toe on the trailing ski works very well for me.

>If you experiment with these ideas without any boots on, you discover
>that with maximal ankle flex, you can assume a strong tele position
>with a gap of a couple of inches between your front heel and rear toe,
>a comfortable amount of knee bend, and *both* heels down.
>Given the moderate knee bend and ski separation, this position would seem
>to be great for situations where you want quick lead changes.
>Unfortunately, when I put my boots on, I can't get into it. With stiff
>boots the position looks more like bad parallel technique than at tele.

I haven't been able to get this to work, I feel too unstable.  I like to
have the trailing tow about 6-12 inches behind leading heel.

>I'd like to hear from other expert tele skiers on the net about

I don't know if I qualify.

--Chris
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:40:12 GMT
Subject: Re: My first experience with a Texas Skiier!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: MAN MADE SNOW
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:26:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.6790049
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
		Man made snow is denser than natural, (NOT EARTHSHATTERING NEWS)
 		but has anyone stopped and thought about the fact it does not
		have more or less water in it than any other snow, because.....
		SNOW IS WATER! (NOT EARTHSHATERING NEWS)
		--------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's not the only thing that's denser than natural



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
							I WILL NOT RESPOND TO
							ANYTHING ABOUT WATER IN
							SNOW AGAIN!!(I promise)
							TODD S>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You'd be doing yourself a big favor.
You have an incredible knack for missing the point.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: wmc@photon.com (Bill Cornette)
Subject: Re: Skiing in Austria?
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:25:16 GMT

: 
:  My wife and I are planning a trip to the Alps sometime this
:  winter for a skiing trip. It is our 20th anniversity and we plan to
:  have the honeymoon we couldn't afford back then in college. I have
:  asked several people about their ideas on where we should go. We have
:  been advised to choose Austria due to costs and the great skiing there.
:  We would like to stay in a small hotel, bed and breakfast inn or some
:  other accomodations that would provide us the opportunity to be with
:  the local people. If I'm going to be with a group of Americans all week
:  I could just go to Colorado and save the jet lag. Do you have any
:  recommendations on where we should go to ski, where we should stay when
:  we are there, and what the names of the resorts are in the area? Any
:  information or suggestions you could give me would be appreciated.

In Jan 1991, my wife, daughter, and I went to Kitzbuhl (sorry about
the umlaut) and stayed at the Hotel Hofer, which is exactly what you
described.  Due to recent warm (70 F) weather, the lower slopes were
in pretty poor shape, but I understand that normally the skiing is
terrific -- and the amount of skiing is nice too.

Hope this helps.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: harsant@margana.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Subject: Re: What, Raichele SWEDISH? (Re: Boots recommendations wanted)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne Australia
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:31:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.222228.16519@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson) writes:
>"New Zealand huh?  Are there many Christians there, because really that's

>the _most_ important thing, isn't it?"
>I just wanted to say "No, most of the missionaries have been eaten by
>the natives," but somehow it came out "Uh, yeah, whatever."
     ^^^^^^^

Who, the Zulus?  :-)

>
>>By the way, our season has just about finished here.  It's been raining
>>since Sunday, most mountains have closed, I've hung up my boots for
>>now.
>>Mt. Buller is still open, but the snow was fairly lousy on Sunday
>>- very soft and very wet, it doesn't freeze overnight at this time of
>>year.  No rocks.
>
>That's too bad.  The latest news from Mt Ruapehu (North island, most of
>the South Island ski areas have closed or are closing soon) is:

I heard they lost a lift up there, won't find it till the snow melts. :-)

>The conditions are still reasonably good.  It freezes overnight if the

Actually, it does freeze here if it's clear and cool enough overnight.
I was averaging things a bit. Just doesn't last long in the morning.
Truth is, I don't like it so much this time of year, the snow gets slow
and heavy and the rocks have started to peek through.  The snow also
tends to get dust on it, and you get muck on your skis.

>>I'm considering coming over to CO or Utah in Feb, if
>>I can find something not too expensive.
>
>Vail?

Ha Ha.  I skiid a day there once, back in '83. It was a beautiful sunny
day, lots of snow.  Didn't seem overly expensive back then, about the
same price as here and the other big North American resorts.  Back
then, the Aus price in $AUS was about the same as the US price in $US.
Now, the Aus prices are higher.  Then you have to consider that our $47
day ticket gets us 1500ft of vertical and 7000+ skiers.

Of course, if you go to Utah, you get caught in an interlodge and have
to sit round all day watching avalanche films and drinking orange juice.

I guess this EnZed season makes up for the last few, eh?  I must get over
some time.

Oh yeah, I was once told that if Texans were meant to ski, they would
have made bullshit white.  Must have been talking about "Texan
Skiers".  I guess we can all find someone to put in that category.  The
most disappointing thing for me when skiing at Whistler a few years ago
was that if you spotted a loudmouthed drunk, it was odds on it was an
Aussie.

--
Dave Harsant,
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
From: ccmj@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claire Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Where to go in France...
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:10:24 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <1992Oct13.080243.1464@rdg.dec.com>, wilcock@bigbos.enet.dec.com (John Wilcock) writes:

> Another large area you might like to consider is Serre Chevalier.
> 250km of pistes, with plenty of challenging runs, plus links to 
> Briancon domain. 

Yes, I'm a Serre Che fan too. However I suspect it is not quite
as challenging overall as Trois Valles et al. It is also not
as convenient in terms of ski in, ski out as other french resorts.
It makes up by being much more French, less crowded and cheaper.

> In the same area there's Montgenevre, which I've
> never been to but is highly recommended - apparently it is linked
> with some italian resorts & has access to over 300km of pistes.

I went over to Montgenevre for the day (you get a free day ticket
to Montgenvre and the ``Milky Way'' with a 6 day or more Serre Che
lift pass, as well as 1 day in Alpe D'Huez and Deus Alpes).
Montgenvre itself is a bit flatter overall than Serre Che, I didn't
go very far into the rest of the Milky way because the snow conditions
were not so good. One link was closed but you could still
ski over the frontier via the other side of Montgenevre
and a walk through Clavriere. I have heard from Italians who go
across to Serre Che rather than the Milky Way (which they must
travel right past) because the lift pass is cheaper, presumably
the skiing is as good. Last year the snow was much worse in
the Milky Way (Montgenevre was reputedly bare from someone who
drove past it).

-- 
Claire
ccmj@dcs.ed.ac.uk
(I don't know why I bother with a signature really, all the information
 in it appears (more concisely) in the header right before my eyes.)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
	<1992Oct14.165849.6783@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:33:58

In article <1992Oct14.165849.6783@fcom.cc.utah.edu> klaus@ced.utah.edu (Klaus Biggers,MEB 3140b,581-6499) writes:
 
>   Seriously though. I haven't skied (or had the desire to ski) on downhill,
>   bondage boards for eight years now and I wouldn't even think of skiing
>   dogleg with my heels locked down. 

Maybe I'll get the courage to hit dogleg on pins this year...
If there's enough snow, of course.

>   Regarding the nouvo tele, heel lock down... it just seems that a lot of
>   pinners fall into the whole trap of reinventing downhill skiing all over
>   again. Stiffer, taller boots. Heavier, wider, shorter, stiffer
>   skis.

True, but in some cases (like mine, for example), the alpine ski
approach was for purely for economic reasons as I couldn't afford the
Evo MQ's I so covet. The plastic cuff I mentioned is only for in-area
use, and serves to stiffen my boot enough so it's more like the
Merrill Supercomp or Asolo Extreme Racers some of my friends wear.
Nonetheless, the turn remains Telemark (or in my case, my best
approximation, complete with horrible pole-panting and other bad form
peccadillos) and the heels remain freeeeeee...

<bend ze kneez!  bend ze kneez!!>

>   Parallel turns. Neon (ee-gads). The end result is downhill skiing.
>   Whoopee.

If I wanted that, I'da gotten a randonnee outfit. Or stayed with the
Alpine gear, of course.  Tho' when the going gets icy or waay steep, I
*do* revert to parallel turns.  What's wrong with neon?  How you
'spect to find someone in an avalanche wearing that damn earthtone
wooly stuff? ;^)

>   To each his own. The point is to do what you want to do in the gear you
>   prefer. If that's on the 223 atomics, the Burton, or the teleboards, at
>   least remember to have fun.

Nein! Nein! Es ist imperative zat purity of equipment and form be
maintained zo zat ve can make fun of zose poor degenerate apostate
fools on downhill gear!!  Fun does not enter into it!!! Besides, here
in Ootah, if you have too much fun at *anything* you *must* be doing
something horribly *wrong*, and must be *punished* for it!!
(otherwise, it's bye-bye Celestial Heaven ;^))

>   Favorite stupid question asked by tourists on the lift when they see
>   that you are wearing 3-pins:

"Y'all goin' cross-cuntry skiin' sumwheah?"
     ^
     |_________ note the accent ;^)

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * dept. of human genetics * another durn californicator   
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked




















Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:52:46 GMT

trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>The point is to raise one's skill.
>
>Quite.  And this is precisely the benefit of area skiing.  While
>the backcountry skier spends all day slogging to the top of
>a hill, an area skier can get in tens of runs, to perfect his skill.
>
>Don't mind me.  I'm just "pulling a Clinton" on the backcountry issue.

As one of those skiers who has been skiing since birth
and took up telemarking for the challenge, skiing in the
backcountry is far more enjoyable:
	1) you don't pay $30
	2) you don't stand in line
	3) it's not a zoo (yet)

Sure, I may not get in 27,542' of verticle per day, but
trying to raise my skill level has diminishing returns.

--Chris
From: cobe101@emory.edu (Christopher C. Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: SKI CB's!!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:20:25 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3




You can get Walkie talkes that have ear and microphone jacks.

Some allow you to have voice activated head sets.  These of

course come at a price. Some Walk-talks have ports to support

such a thing.  These ports can support everything from recording

equipment, alternative frequency crystals, and head sets.

Shop around.  You'll find one.


Chris Chung
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: drew@ophelia.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Radios
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:15:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.033008.17559@panix.com> oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) writes:
>I wonder whether any readers would like to share comments about the use
>of two-way radios on the ski slopes.  I find them to be very handy.
>Examples:  
>        
>        You and a friend are skiing down and will have to decide which
>lift to ski to because there is a branch in the trail.  Without 
>two-way radios, the conversation would have to take place motionless at
>the branch.  This means that whoever gets to the branch first has to wait
>around for the other skier.  On average, the ratio of ski time to waiting
>time is degraded.  But if you use two-way radios, then you can confer on 
>such questions while both skiers are moving.  The ratio of ski time to 
>waiting time is enhanced.

If you're yacking on a radio, you aren't focusing 100% of your 
attention on skiing.  On a wide open cruising run during 
an empty weekday this may be fine, in the glades, on a chute, 
or on a steep, narrow bump run, it could prove fatal.

>        Two couples are at the resort, and they stop for lunch.  After
>lunch, one couple would like to go back on the slopes while the other 
>would like to rest a few more minutes.  Without radios, you are faced
>with two choices -- (1) all four skiers wait until everybody is ready
>to go, or (2) you give up on ever rejoining until the end of the day
>during "apres ski" activity.  But if you use radios, you can rejoin
>conveniently with ski runs coordinated to meet somewhere with no idle 
>time.

Many ski areas have chalk boards at the tops / bottoms of runs.  You 
can leave messages for your party there.  Albeit it's not 
as immediate as a radio, but it does the job.

> 
>        Another choice, for those holding a general mobile radio 
>service license, is a walkie-talkie such as the Motorola Radius P-10.

No license is required for CB.  
-- 
Microsoft is responsible for propogating the evils it calls DOS and Windows, 
IBM for AIX (appropriately called Aches by those having to administer it), but 
marketing's sins don't come close to those of legal departments.
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Looking for a Job I can Enjoy
From: kuhn@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:20:51 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: zaragoza

Does anybody out there have any information or know where to get information 
about jobs at western ski resorts (or anything within their local vicinity)?

I am interested in seasonal and/or year around jobs.  I have been employeed for
about the past 5 years at a major steel mill in the midwest as a software
engineer and have become very discontent with my job.  I would like to find
something where I can pay the rent and put food in my belly all year around.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated.


John Kuhn
Inland Steel
East Chicago, In


Trying to find the solution...
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: Lodging question (Cortina vs. Villager) at KILLINGTON (good deal!)
Keywords: Killington Vermont lodging
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:01:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.164932.17555@hellgate.utah.edu>, jbaker%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (John Baker) writes:
|> There is a Ski New England special available from the Washington/Baltimore
|> area - 5 days for $397.
|> 
|> I have decided to go to Killington and have a choice of lodging.  The two
|> best places in the deal are the Cortina Inn, which is a luxurious inn about
|> 8 miles from the slopes, and the Villager which is walking distance from the
|> lifts.  
|> 
|> Has anyone stayed at either location, and if so, how did they like it?  ANY
|> comments are welcome!


  The Cortina Inn is a TERIFFIC place to stay. A nice pool, good exercise
facility, and delicious food! It is also very expensive, so staying via a
deal like you have may be an incredible value. Don't be alarmed with being
8 miles from the slopes - actually, I'd have thought they were even closer
than that - maybe 1/2 that distance. Anyway, when driving to Killington don't
go to the main lodges via the access road. The best lodge is the one at
Bear Mountain, which has much less traffic/crowds than the other areas.
To get there from the Cortina, take Rt 4/100 South - just past the Gondola on
the right will be the turn off for Bear Mountain. Get their by 8:30 am and
you're golden!! On weekends lifts open at 7, so the earlier the better.

-Ron

PS - If you are going to rent a never-skied before package - then you must 
drive to the main Killington lodge, which is near the end of the access road.
Other than that - drive to the Bear Mountain lodge! It can be accessed via black,
blue, and green trails.


 
|> 
|> Thank you,
|> John Baker
|> jbaker@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
|> e
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bannan@convex.com (Bill Bannan)
Subject: Telemark skis
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Albany NY Office
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:21:28 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

    Has anyone out there in Net-land seen anything new & exciting in Telemark
    Equipment for this year? Specificly I'm looking for skis that have the 
    manuverability & stability that my Cirques have, yet hold an edge on ice 
    which the Cirques definitely do not (chatter chatter chatter).


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Bannan * bannan@convex.com * Albany NY office of Convex Computer Corp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: MAN MADE SNOW
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:22:16 GMT

In article <122930200@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
(John Byrnes) writes:
>Oh boy!  Can't miss this opportunity to get the last word in!

You may have the last word with Todd 8^).

>Water is clear, snow is not.		# seen the lower Colorado lately?
			actually snow can be "clear"
			Columbus sailed the ocean blue
			Both are great research problems.
>Water is a liquid, snow is not.
>Water has surface tension, snow does not.
>Water is a solvent, snow is not.
>And perhaps most importantly,
>Snow has structure (which changes based on environment), water does not.
>THEREFORE (as my math teach used to say):
>SNOW IS NOT WATER.

Snow + latent heat of melting = air + water + a condensation nucleus

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mnewton@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Gatineau 55
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:58:09 GMT

Does anyone know the dates of next year's Gatineau 55 XC ski race in
the Ottawa area? Info would be appreciated.

Michael Newton
Grenfell College Corner Brook
NF
Newsgroups: rec.skiing