HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: "If I had a gun, I'd shoot every damned one of them!"
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:10:06 GMT
Organization: DuPont Central Research & Development

I was watching the news last night and they interviewed this shop owner
in Florida whose store had been decimated by Hurricane Andrew.  He told of
how he would salvage something out of his store and put it out front,
but in the time it would take for him to go back in and get something, 
someone would loot his recovered product.  In response to this, he said:
"If I had a gun, I'd shoot every damned one of them."  This goes along
with the well-beaten thread about killing burglars.  The shop owner had 
just seen his life blown away in a hurricane and people were stealing
what little he had left.  I don't advocate killing people, but I sure
sympathize with the poor guy.


******************************************************
Scott C. Walker
walkersc@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

+++The few opinions I express are not the opinions of my employer.
"What's settled down?  Settled down is you get married and then you buy a
house.  You can get a wood house, a plaster house or a stucco house.  
Oh, how you can get stucco!"  - David Lee Roth, on Rockline
******************************************************
From: dougl@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Doug Leno)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:29:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Advice: Sundance Spas
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

in hpdmd48:misc.consumers.house marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks) wrote:

>
>In article <1992Aug31.193548.27676@brtph560.bnr.ca>, jthomas@brtph98.bnr.ca (James Thomas P215) writes...
>> 
>>    I am considering buying a Sundance Cameo 800 Spa (which
>>happens to be a "Best Buy" in Consumers Digest this month,
>>.......  Any bargaining tips?

> Sure.  Buy it in February.  You can probably knock off $1k from the price
>the dealer wants for it now.

As I have watched the industry here,  spring and fall are 'hot' seasons for
spas.  Dealers have sales and promotions, run lots of adds, buy vendor booths
at the local home show & county fair, etc.  Some may run christmas specials
for spas.

Depending upong the store, you might find 'left over' models near the end of
the year that you would be in good postion to bargin for.  If the Dealer has
over stocked you might find some of these have spilled over into the first of
the year when, as Randy pointed out, you stand a much better chance of making
a deal.  Without a doubt, January and February are very slow spa selling
months indeed.  Just like buying a car - go in when the weather has been nasty
for a few days and no one is out spa shopping.

Doug

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:04:26 GMT

From: toddi@mav.com (Todd Inch)writes...

>Also, under the right circumstances, such as someone being 
>electrocuted on the front lawn in the kiddie pool, I might run inside
>your house without knocking in order to disconnect the power.

Your parents should have taught you to knock well before you were old
enough to type.

Run into *my* house without knocking and they may very well be carrying
you back out. I don't give a damn what the circumstances are, NOBODY
has a right to enter my house without my permission except a cop with a
warrant. If you bust in off the street, you're going to scare the pants
off me. If you don't do some *real* fast talking, I'll blow you clean
away.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | If you take a dog which is starving and feed him
George Patterson -  | and make him prosperous, that dog will not bite
                    | you. This is the primary difference between a dog
                    | and a man.             Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Question about roofing materials
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:49:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <15127@umd5.umd.edu> bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams) writes:
>We just recently got some estimates on fixing a fairly small piece of flat roof
>on our otherwise sloped and shingled house.  The two most apparently
>knowledgeable roofers specified some stuff called bitume-something-or-other, or
>"rubber roofing," manufactured by Firestone, I think.  What is this stuff?  Can
>someone point me at a reference (Consumer Reports?)?  The one guy who wanted to
>put on a "normal" (to me) tar-and-gravel roof cost a whole lot more than the
>rubber roofers and would only offer a ten-year guarantee (the rubber roofers
>offered 10 and 20).  The two different rubber folks described quite different
>processes, one involving coming back and painting the roof (with reflective
>paint) after it had been down for a month or so for weathering.  Does this
>sound reasonable?
I had my garage done this way last fall and I just had another house done
about amonth ago.  So far I am happy with the process and the material.
I have heard there is a variety of the roofing material that is already
coated and does not need the reflective paint.  I am also going to try 
out the white mobil home roofing material "cool roof" and see how it
stands up.  It sounds like your two guys are quoting the different
material. 

I would be interested in hearing from others with longer term experience.
Paul
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.consumers
From: msingh@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The Supreme Commander)
Subject: Re: Credit report
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:46:55 GMT

>You're forgetting one thing:  TRW is doing this out of the goodness of
>their hearts.  There is (unfortunately) no law forcing them to give out
>free credit reports except after a credit denial so unless you've just
>been denied credit they can attach whatever conditions they like to the
>free report.

As far as I remember, according to the Credit Repoting Act, you have a
right to obtain a copy of your credit report, free of charge, at any
time. You are limited to 1 free copy a year however. (Of course, I
could be completely wrong...)

>Did you consider the security implications if they accepted "full name,
>social security number, and any old envelope" as enough to send out a
>report?  ANYONE could obtain your report just by taking time to fake an
>envelope first.  Or are they supposed to magically know where you
>really live, despite the fact they "have no right" to keep a lot of
>information about you and you're not going to help them figure it out?

Good point. But, they have more than enough information to already
authenticate you, and if they were paranoid, they could require a host
of other procedures which wouldn't entail your giving them any
information. For instance, you apply for a report. They verify by
phone, by mail, by registered mail, etc. Then, and only then, they
send out your report. But, in truth, they could really care less about
who gets your credit report.

>Last but not least, if they have a credit report on you in the first
>place, "only a fool" thinks they don't already have most the
>information they're asking for.  The only purposes these requirements
>serve are:
>
>        1)      Make your records more accurate, and
>        2)      Authenticate a request for a report
>
>both of which are quite reasonable goals, assuming they'll be keeping


In my case, I have credit cards etc under a number of diiferent
versions of my name. (This is due to a number of differring reasons,
none intentional on my part) By giving them all the information they
request, they can then put everything into my file and start
cross-referencing it. I can remember when I got my first TRW report.
Everything was okay. The next time I requested it, they had
cross-linked my report with three other peoples, all because we had
the same "name". It took my over a year to force them to straighten it
all out. Ever since, I've been against credit reporting agencies...


				...Manu
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Supreme Commander wishes you a Supreme day. 
I'm a Magic Man, oooh, I got the magic hands, yeah...
Don't mind me, I'm just attempting to dock.
From: alanj@endeavor18.tek.com (Alan Jeddeloh)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Possible gas leak?
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:54:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.

In article <DRAND.92Sep2165422@spinner.osf.org> drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand) writes:
>I don't know the mix (although it *is* about 15% for gasoline and
>air), but without enough ventilation to clear the gas,  the mixture
>will slowly build up to the flash point,  at that point something
>(like the pilot of the furnace or water heater) will set it off and
>remove the house from the neighborhood.

Afew years ago that happened here in Portland.  My vague recollection is that
it was a suicide, but I don't remember the details.

What I do remember is that the house was not so much "removed from the
neighborhood" as it become "more tightly integrated into the neighborhood" --
and with considerably smaller granularity.  In fact, the smaller the "grain",
the more likely the "grain" became integrated into one of the surrounding
neighborhoods!

--
    Alan Jeddeloh      W:(503) 685-2991  H:(503) 292-9740
    Tektronix, Inc.  D/S 60-850; PO Box 1000; Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Alan.Jeddeloh@tek.com          Let sleeping dogs^H^H^H^Hbabies lie
    You can put the children to bed, but you can't make them sleep!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: questions about MOLDINGS?
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:17:31 GMT

In article <KOSOWSKY.92Aug28110948@zener.harvard.edu> kosowsky@zener.harvard.edu (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) writes:
|I want to add a cove molding to cover the joint between walls and
|ceiling and I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the DIY experts
|in this group.
|
|	1] Is a construction adhesive, such as Liquid Nails, strong
|	enough to hold up the molding (it's about 1 3/4 inch width pine)
|	or would you recommend using finish nails? If nails are
|	recommended, what size would you use?

Liquid Nails is plenty strong once it dries. The problem is holding the
molding tightly in place in the meantime. This problem is worse if
the molding is bowed at all (or the wall is). I've done this with
baseboard molding, most came out OK, a few ended up with unsightly
gaps between molding and wall. Also remember that Liquid Nails is forever.


|     2] The ceiling is a textured ceiling. How do you make the
|     moulding fit flush with the textured ceiling? Would it be enough
|     to just fill any spaces with caulk?

Popcorn (cottage cheese) texture? I wonder if there is a way to cleanly
scrape away the texture where the molding is going to go.
	
|	5] I would appreciate any tips on how to get good and accurate
|	measurements so that all the corners fit snugly. I am especially
|	concerned about getting the mitered outside corners to fit tight.

I'd like to know the answer to that myself.
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Best Hardware Store
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:16:43 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Scott Walker writes:
>As a soon to be first time homeowner, I was wondering what the net.opinion
>was on hardware and lumber stores.  I am looking for:
> 1. Service
> 2. Value
> 3. Customer satisfaction
>
>The ones available to me are Lowes, Channel, Hechinger, 84, True-Value
>and Ace.  Any suggestions and experiences are welcome by both posting and
>email.

My vote goes to Home Depot.  The orange-aproned employees are smarter than
the average bear on the subjects of their departments (this, by no means, 
makes them experts, but rather more knowledgeable than average).  I have
received some good (and also some not-so-good) advice on projects I was
working on.  In general, they seem very willing to help you out with any
questions you have.  Generally, they carry name-brand items and have stuff
that is mostly good quality (the junkier stuff is usually so cheap
that you *know* its junk and buy it knowing it will be junk [sometimes I
don't care]).  You do run into the occasional defect (more on that in a
bit) I can't say enough good things about them in terms of
customer satisfaction.  Two examples must suffice:

First, personal example.  I bought a flourescent kitchen ceiling fixture
for the kitchen I am redo'ing.  I had it at home in the box for about
2.5 months before installing it.  Turns out it had a bad ballast of
something, as it wouldn't fully light.  I brought it back and exchanged it
with no questions asked.  Given the span of time between purchase and
repair, I'd say that is pretty good service.

Seond, a second-hand example.  Friends of mine purchased a mirrored vanity
for their bathroom.  One night, one of the mirror panels came crashing
down, denting a fixture.  This was also months after purchasing it.  Not
only did HD give them a replacement for the broken panel, they gave them
a replacement fixture.  And all this *without a receipt*!  They did have to
talk to a fe people first, but what the heck.  I call that pretty good
service and concern for customer satisfaction.

By the way, I believe HD employees are stockholders.

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
						-E. Saliers
From: qbarnes@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Quentin Barnes)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Telephone Outlets
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:32:51 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center

In <180b2aINNkh@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:

>In article 5443@naucse.cse.nau.edu, rrw@elden (Robert Wier) writes:

>>   Being
>> in a somewhat rural location perhaps helps also (not too many houses
>> within a half mile or so).

>Half mile?!?  The phone itself has a range of ~1000 ft.  How can a
>snooper pick up the signal past where it's too weak for the phone to?

Because the "snooper" has a better antenna and/or a better
quality receiver.  For example, I have a $99 scanner from Radio
Shack and it will pick up my cordless phone clearly at 6-8 blocks
away (small town size blocks).  Using the cordless phone base, I can
barely get 50 ft before the static is unbearable. 

>---
>Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
>  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
>DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
> (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
-- 
Quentin Barnes
qbarnes@urbana.mcd.mot.com | ..!uiucuxc!udc!qbarnes
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: btwomey@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (william.tw0mey)
Subject: Re: HELP! Does anyone own a shed?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:20:10 GMT


>	I posted a request for shed info about 2 weeks ago and since have
>received only two replies.  Come on, more than two people on the net must
>have had a shed installed. Please respond if you had a shed put up in the
>last 5 years. I am interested in an 8'X8' or 8'X10' or 10'X10'(any suggestions)

Here is a  mind-dump, enjoy:

I built one that is 10' by 10'.  It is about 112" to 120" tall.  The
roof is a salt box style.  The long part of the roof is 96", the short
is ~48".  Nominal 1/2" plywood was used for the roof.  I used 5/8 T1-11
siding with 8" between grooves.  The walls are pre-cut studs plus sill
and top plate.  Whole sheets of siding, extending about an inch below the
sill were used.  The waste from the sides made up the the high part of
the sides.  The wall studs and roof rafters are on 24" centers. 
The shed is still standing, so this spacing is OK.  

The flooring is 3/4" plywood.  These sheets are staggered so that 72"
of one is next to 72" of the next.  The floor joists are 2x4s sitting
on 4x4 beams sitting on four, equally spaced concrete blocks just
dropped on the ground.  Some joists are on 14 1/2" centers.  This was
to have not greater than 16" centers in the 72" where the flooring
overlaps.  There should be a beam carrying the joists front, back and
center.  If I were to build it again I would use 2x8 joists teco'd to
double 2x8s sitting on blocks at the four corners.

If you have no garage, basement or workshop, go for at least 10'x10' so
that you can store and maneuver 8' building materials.  There are
double doors 30" each.

I came by a 24x24 smoked skylight on clearance and installed it at the
top of the long part of the roof.  There is a 15"x19" window in front.
There are 1x10s above the front doors as shelving.  There is a single
2x4 supporting this shelving, which also ties the front and rears wall
together.

I used Behr white stain.  When it needs painting (staining),
no stinking scraping for me.  Apply lightly in two coats or you'll
get lots less coverage than Behr claims.  (How do I know?)

It was an amusing first project for me.  At least it *was*, until I
removed the front third of my left thumb with a table saw while cutting
trim for this beastie.  Maybe thats why you didn't get this info earlier,
eh, Ted?

Bill Twomey
-- 
bt@violin.att.com

Bill's Law on Netnews discussions:
"If a poster's name is in the Subject, its not worth reading."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen)
Subject: which water heater?  which toilet/WC?
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Technical Systems Operations
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:16:59 GMT

I'm looking for an electric water heater with a 5 or 8 yr guaranty.
Various local plumbing suppliers have recommended these:
    A.O. Smith
    Bradford-White
    American
    Reliance/State
    Richmond/Rheem

Any strong recommendations for or against any of these?  Thx.

Like many cities, Phoenix now requires 1.5 gal/flush toilets.
Various local plumbing suppliers have recommended these:
    American Standard	$130 - $190
    Kohler WW Lite	$130 - $170
    Crane Radcliffe	$130
    Briggs		$110
    Universal Rundal	$110
    Crane Miser		$ 95 - $115
    Elgar Patriot	$ 90

Any strong recommendations for or against any of these?  Thx.
-- 
Fred Christiansen, Motorola, 2900 S Diablo Way, Tempe, AZ 85282  "Canajun, eh?"
fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com  ||  uunet!phx.mcd.mot.com!fredch  ||  +1 602-438-3464
  On Attitude & the Immune System:  A sound heart is the life of the flesh:
    but envy the rottenness of the bones.  Prov 14:30
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: Jensen_C@msm.cdx.mot.com
Subject: Mystery under front steps
Organization: Motorola_Codex
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:10:29 GMT

I've got steps at my front door made of concrete covered with brick
on top that measures 6' wide by 4' deep, 2 steps high.  I've noticed
a couple of odd things around the steps and am not sure if I should be 
concerned or not.  Any insight or advice is greatly appreciated!

The first thing I noticed was condensation in the basement on the wall section
(poured concrete) in the area under the front steps.  This showed up when I
started to finish off the basement walls and put up a plastic moisture barrier
behind the studs.  I stapled 3 mil plastic to the sill plates  and brought it
down to the floor under the sole plate of the studded wall.    I assume the
condensation is due to the ground under the steps being cooler thus causing a
cold spot on the wall and condensation.  But why don't I get condensation at
the bottom of the wall where it is probably just as cold?  Also, should I be
concerned about the sill plate rotting due to this moisture buildup behind the
plastic?

Another thing I have noticed is that there are always ants steaming behind the
steps where they meet the house and there are cracks on either side.  They are
the garden variety black ants, not destructive as far as I know.  Should I be
concerned about them?  Should I seal up the cracks?   We now also have a snake
under the steps too!  He sought refuge there when my wife went ballistic with a
garden hoe!

Lastly,  I have raised the ground level in the front of the house for gardens. 
The dirt is now ~ 6 inches from the bottom clapboards (also halfway up the
steps if it matters).  Is there a "safe" minimum exposure for the foundation to
prevent decay of sills?  The grade is away from the house so there is no
standing water, but when the ground is wet, the exposed foundation surface is
also damp.   I should also mention the the entire development used to be a sand
pit so there should be excellant drainage under the topsoil, cuz it's all sand
down there!

Any insights/comments welcome.

-Carl

post replies or send email to:
csj@codex.com  -or-
jensen_c@msm.cdx.mot.com
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Sound insulation for ceiling/floor:  ideas?
Keywords: sound insulation fibreglass
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:50:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: IntraNet, Inc.

Several posters have mentioned that conventional fiberglass insulation will
not do much sound absorbing. Is there an alternative material suitable for
stuffing between joists and studs that would work better?

-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
From: btarbox@sw.stratus.com (Brian Tarbox)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Best Hardware Store
Date: 31 Aug 92 11:28:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

>In article <1992Aug27.171643.1406@informix.com> davek@informix.com (David Kosenko) writes:

>> My vote goes to Home Depot.

I agree!  After buying a house 8 months ago I hardly ever miss a
week without going to Home Depot (old house, needs lots of work).

At least around here (mass/N.H.) their prices can't be beat, and
their customer service is excellent.
From: busey@milton.u.washington.edu (Thomas Busey)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: How do I compute the maximum the bank will loan me?
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:22:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.busey.714842542
Organization: University of Washington

I'm just a grad student now, but I'm anticipating a better salary soon with a
real job.  We're doing some financial planning, and I'm trying to figure out 
the maximum loan a bank will give, assuming a given gross yearly salary.
Does anyone have the rough formula that banks use to compute what the maximum 
monthly payment would be, and thus the highest loan a bank will give (I've
heard something like 40% of gross monthly salary)?

Thanks
Tom
busey@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house