HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka)
Subject: EFTA treaty on free movement of labor
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 22:27:30 GMT

I saw a reference to European Free Trade Association Treaty
on free movement of labor within member countries. At the time,
I assumed that the person writing had old information, since
they mentioned that the treaty would take effect on January 1, 1993.

I remember reading somewhere that EFTA was more or less dead,
if EC goes ahead with Maastricht treaty. In particular, this EFTA
treaty would be pointless exercise, since EFTA countries are joining EC.

This came up in a conversation, and now I'd like to know what is the real
situation. From Italian papers I get the idea that EFTA treaty has better
chances of going through if the French vote no on Maastricht.

Anyone have the text of this treaty? Any information on the process
the treaty has gone and has to go through.

thanks,

jari
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas)
Subject: Re: What is a European country to you?
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:17:54 GMT



In article <1992Sep9.160352.1551@eecs.nwu.edu> efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis) writes:
>jba@dat.ruc.dk (Jan Bruun Andersen) writes:
>>
>>Personally I did quite a bit of "cleaning up" (using my tongue)
>>among the many beautiful greek women on the island of Paros when I
>>visited Greek a few years ago. Maybe it is time for yet another tour?
>>
>>jba - wearing condom _and_ asbestos suit

>Jan, I'm happy for you that you had a good time.
>BTW, didn't your tongue hurt with a condom _and_ asbestos suit on it? ;-)

It is quite original to "clean up" condoms _and_ asbestos suits
using one's tongue. Congratulations to jan for his research topic :-)

Filippos
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: SKOP(L)JE/MACEDONIA: WHAT'S IN A NAME?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:03:50 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.europe

ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

>  Early last month Greece broke off talks with a delegation that came down 
>from Skopje when it refused to discuss the issue over the name. In this 
>delegation was a historian, no doubt decorated with many PhDs from 
>Skopje Univ., who remarked that Alexander the Great had Slavic connections.

It seems that Gligor Apoleski(the author of "Macedonia: History and Reality")
is not the only one who believes that...
It's a pity that some people have a completely distorted view of history;
for sure they cannot be blamed for that since they were the victims of
a 45-years continuous propaganda... But, when such views are officialy 
adopted by their leaders, this is a real danger...

--rizos
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8150 eunet.politics:1210 soc.culture.greek:8507 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8513
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: What is a European country to you?
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:09:18 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.europe

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:
>   The whole spectrum of the official political forces with incredible
>unanimity is dragging lately the whole people in Greece to an imperialistic and
>chauvinistic direction. The ruling party of New Democracy, the "socialist"
>PASOK and the whole official left agree and compete for the preservation
>of the "Greekenness" of the name Macedonia, which is the "property", as 
>they declare, of the well known to us Alexander the great, who ruled and
>fought 2,500 years ago!!!

Again the same story! The bad Greeks who want to exterminate the descendants
of Alexander the Great... 

Sasa, you systematically ignore that :
- Greece has guaranteed the borders of the ex-Yugoslavia's "People's 
  Socialist Republic of Macedonia" when Albanians made territorial claims
  against it. Supposing that Greece has imperialistic plans, what was
  the reason to do that?
- Greece, being the most developed nation of the region, has nothing to
  gain from a continuous instability and she has officially promised any 
  help to this republic (and of course immediate recognition) if they stop  
  their dangerous game. A reassuration was given recently by Greek 
  businessmen who published advertisements in Skopie's newspapers confirming 
  that they are ready to collaborate with people of this republic.

On the other hand, what has the Skopie's government offered to Greece?
They only continue their aggressive policy against her by refusing any 
form of negotiations, encouraging publications showing the "occupied" 
Greek Macedonia, implying a continuity between ancient Macedonians and 
today's people living there, using an emblem that has nothing to do with 
their history on their flag; the leaders in Skopie have invested on a 
cultural theft, a political fraud and an opportunistic policy... And of 
course voices from inside the republic, suggesting the abandonment of 
these dangerous tactics, are completely ignored (really Sasa, why you don't 
tell us for them? Why you don't tell us for example for the different names 
that have been proposed by your own compatriots?).

Sasa, try to be a realist; Greece has no problems with your compatriots;
but she cannot permit a handful of maniacs there to create even another Bosnia 
near her northern border because these maniacs don't want to give up the 
illusions on which they have based their existence during the last 50 years...

--r.
From: HENDRIKX@PURCCVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: brussels by sheraton
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:16:05 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

Hallo Everyone
A friend of mine is going to a conference in Brussels, Belgium
in the middel of November
The conference is organized in the Sheraton in Brussells
but the rooms are rather expensive, especially if he wants to stay a day extra
So he was wondering whether there was a cheaper hotel in the neighborhood

I myself are from Belgium
but I do not remember exactly where the Sheraton is located
Is it in the neighborhood of Brussel Noord Station
Is there just one Sheraton in Brussels, or are there more than one
Does anyone know of other hotels in the neighborhood
Or does anyone know the name or phonenumber of the toerist information
so that he can get information about accomodation in Brussels
and make eventually reservations in advance

The prices in the Sheraton were around BF7000
He was hoping to find something at least half the price


I hope to hear from someone form Brussels
Please forward this message if you know anyoone that knows
about hotels in Brussels
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8261 eunet.politics:1291 soc.culture.greek:8693
From: nick@cs.hw.ac.uk (Nick Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Weird Europeans (was: Annoy Us (was Re:  What is a European
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:52:14 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <4543.3244.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com
(Michael Polymenakos) writes another load of codswallop.

Why pick on Europeans? I should think every reader of USENET is completely fed
up with the, presumably untypical, Greeks and Turks who insist on behaving
like 5 year olds at everybody elses expense.

You've killed soc.culture.europe with your pointless arguments. You're both
doing a better job of turning us all against your countries than your opponents
could ever do. Piss off back to soc.culture.greek and soc.culture.turkey if
you can't stop yourselves posting all this crap. Hell, I thought at least
eunet.politics was safe for the grown-ups!!

Nick Taylor.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: berne@nova3.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Subject: Re: Versailles System = Madness
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:29:27 GMT

In article <QeeYige00WB344U1hD@andrew.cmu.edu> vv0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vasilios Voudouris) writes:
>EXCELLENT !!!!!
>
>Now THIS is really soc.culture.
????
Did I miss a joke here? The POE people don't make me laugh.
JF
From: am@sys.uea.ac.uk (A. Machaeridis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: What is a European country to you?
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:07:42 GMT
Organization: UEA School of Information Systems, Norwich, UK.

hilmi-er@vall (Hilmi Eren) writes:

>A. Machaeridis (am@sys.uea.ac.uk) wrote:
>: jba@dat.ruc.dk (Jan Bruun Andersen) writes:

>: >So yes, by economy strength we are a success. And we have just won the
>: >european football championship and the annual NATO competion. 
>: >Howsaboutthat?
>: 
>: And while you are so busy doing all that, somebody has to take care of
>: your women, during the summer. That is why you need Greeks.

>  + This is an example of how low a person can get (Machaeridis).
>  + If the Greek tourist-cities look a bit clean than you can thank
>  + the women you mentioned asshole. Without tourists Greece would be
>  + like an african state..

ts,ts,ts,..dirty mouth.
As for the tourists cleaning our beaches, we thank them.
You know how..... :-) 

>Hilmi

Tassos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: md88-msa@nada.kth.se makis
Subject: Jan Bruun Andersen ...
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:22:18 GMT

i wave my genitals in your general direction

( i guess i just joined the silly netters association )

no .sig & no future
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8221 eunet.politics:1270 soc.culture.greek:8626 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8601
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: What is a European country to you?
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:33:11 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.europe

jba@dat.ruc.dk (Jan Bruun Andersen) writes:

>Mr. sk@groo.sunbim.be is most likely from Belgium, but then we all know
                                                            ^^^^^^^^
>of the difficulties the greeks have with geography these days...

Hmm, another one netter claiming that he represents many... How many people
do you represent sir? Furthermore, how do know that the Greeks have
difficulties with geography? Do you have any measurements of their
geographical knowledge? If you have or if you represent more than yourself,
try to be more specific; otherwise try to be more careful, please...

--rizos

(Unless Gligor Apoleski has written a new geography as well...)
From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: how european do the turks feel
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:06:05 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Sep8.210754.4220@ctr.columbia.edu>, deniz@atlas.ctr.columbia.edu
 (Deniz Akkus) writes:
>
>I personally don't think Turkey should enter the EEC.  I don't think
>it makes sense for Turkey in the long run.  I know that Greece is a rather
>convenient excuse for other governments to stall Turkey.  Actually,
>I have to say that I am rather thankful to Greece for it.

I am pleasantly surprised that even one of the 1% of the Turks that are
civilized, as I certainly consider Deniz Akkus to be, is now (not in the
past, though) against Turkey's entry in the EC. Turkey is definetely not
European and would only create problems 100 times more serious than whatever
annoyances Greece (or the other relatively poorer EC countries) has caused -
and not only in the economic sense.

Let Turkey just heed the call of the Qur'an and join its Islamic brethren. As
Valery Giscard d' Estaing had once said, "the eastern border of Greece is the
eastern border of Europe - beyond that, it is no Europe".

Greece is still far behind, but one day it will be definetely catching up to
the other EC countries, eventually making up the terrible loss and damage that
5 centuries of Turkish brutality wrought. And Turkey will still be cut off
from the Western civilization, well into its Asian/Islamic way. How deserved
for a country that is responsible for the first genocides of the 20th century,
and still blaming its victims, for so much suffering and destruction.

>
>Definitely not European Deniz
>

I wholeheartedly wish you well among the brutes. You, personaly, are not one
of them.

-- 
------------------------    "This is the greatest planet on the face of
+= Dimitris Kouvatsos *=     the earth"
<dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
------------------------           -- Vice President J. Danforth Quayle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: delval@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Alvaro del Val)
Subject: Re: how european do the turks feel
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Distribution: world 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:56:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.235512.6551@morrow.stanford.edu> berne@nova3.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne) writes:
>In article <9209082000.AA10307@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>>Entrance to the EEC is simply money. What XXX has to give and what XXX
>>has to offer in return... In Turkiye's case, the obvious "to give"
>>feature is lots of cheap labor. I chuckle every time you (or anyone
>
>I do not believe that money is the only key. For example, would
>Greece have become a member if it were still suffering from the
>"colonels" diktat? <- This is a real question! I think it wouldn't.
>Would Spain have become a member under Franco? (After all, he ruled
>till '75 -? verif ?-after the first EEC kernel was created.)

The answer to the last question is a definite no. In fact, by the late
sixties the spanish government was already trying to enter the EEC,
and was repeatedly told that it had no chance with the then current
regime. (They got favorable trade arrangements, though.) After
Franco's death in 1975, the prospect of entry into the EC had in my
opinion a major role in the genuine conversion to democratic values of
the moderate Francoist political class. That's not a small achievement
after a 36-year dictatorship.

>Some compliance with EEC standards of govt is a condition sine qua non
>to enter it. 

Right. And no matter the current EC-wide (and beyond) economic and
political crisis, Spain and Portugal are as good evidence as you can
find that the EC, if not allowed to stall, is still the best hope for
peace, stability and relative prosperity in the newly formed european
democracies. 

Alvaro



Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: ammarwah@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Amit Marwah)
Subject: Re: "Becoming" European (was Re: The Aboriginal Government and other such)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:59:53 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <rsakella.715808932@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>hilmi@vall.dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren) writes:
>
>>+ By not recognizing Macedonia as an independent state Greece sets
>>+ the tension at the Balkan *towards* a war not *against*. 
>Could you justify your arguments? In particular, why recognising the
>ex-Yugoslavia's "People's Socialist Republic of Macedonia" would 
>prevent a war while not recognising it wouldn't?
>
>>+ I read a newspaper yesterday- Papandreou says:"...."macedonians" can't
>>+ call their state Macedonia..."
>>+ Maybe they call their state "Papandreou" if he approves or even "PASOK"?
>Instead of playing with the words, can you realise why these people 
>insist on the name Macedonia? Don't you see the confusion that they attempt
>to create saying that "Greece occupies large sections of Macedonia" or
>"the Greeks for almost 2500 years are trying to hellenize the Macedonians"?
>Have you read their version of history? I'd suggest to read some of their 
>articles and compare these articles with the history of the region...
>
>--r.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Hi to all my friends from europe
From: jsekhar@uceng.UC.EDU (DR J.A.SEKHAR)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 07:14:28 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati, Engineering College

 Hi to all my friends from europe
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.jewish
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Subject: Re: An interesting poll about the feelings in Turkey
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.europe
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:43:12 GMT

NOTE the followup line.  Please use it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.jewish
From: deniz@atlas.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: An interesting poll about the feelings in Turkey
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:00:57 GMT
X-Posted-From: atlas.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Sep8.182518.12650@morrow.stanford.edu> berne@nova3.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne) writes:
>
>Interesting. They are self-admitted non-european but they wouldn't mind the
>subsidies I guess. I did not know the turkish govt pretended to change Turkey
>in a European contry? On what ground?
>JF
>-----

It depends on what your definition of European is.  Turkey is an 
associate member of the EEC and has applied for full membership.  It also
is listed under Europe for official summits and also for international 
events such as sports tournaments.  It is a member of several European
networks for broadcasts etc.  Its territory in Europe, although a
fraction of its total land is as large as Switzerland. 

Are you asking whether Turkey has a legal right to try to enter the
EEC if it wants to?  I believe it does.  However your question seems
to be slanted on the side of 'does it belong there?'.  As such
questions often involve words such as 'civilized' I am tired of
answering.  I am sure our Greek friends will fill you in with their
opinions on the matter.

>Le 20 Septembre, votez pour l'Europe!

Pas moi.

Amicalement,
Deniz Akkus, deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: RE: THE NEW BULLY OF THE
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


Luben sez:
>Could you please explain why they are considered Greek? In all history
>books I've seen, Pomaks = Muslim Bulgarians. And the reason they are
>called so is that they speak Bulgarian only. According to everybody,
>who I know

Every one agrees that the Pomaks are ethnically Bulgarians, not Greeks.

The Pomaks who live in Greece today are Greek citizens and
well-integrated in Greek society. The main reason is that they are the
descendants of those Pomaks who decided to disobey the Sofia Communist
regime in 1945, and stay in Greece. As a result, the Pomak community has
traditionally been aligned with the conservative/anti-communist Greek
parties, even the nationalistic ones. I don't know how this situation
will change now that Bulgaria is not communist any more, but
traditionally the Greek Pomaks have had no allegiance to Bulgaria and
every allegiance to Greece. In that sense, Greeks consider them Greeks.

You see, being Greek is not some sort of an exclusive racial club. Those
who choose to join Greek society are welcome. I mentioned the Vlachii a
week ago, who are (probably) not Greeks ethnically, but who are among
the most patriotic Greeks in modern Greece, and have been most prominent
in the Greek struggles from 1821 to today. They deserve to be called
Greeks more than many who are ethnically Greek.

 This goes back to what I was saying a few weeks ago about Bulgarians
living in Greece who left as a result of the Sofia
involvement in the Greek civil war. Those who chose not to join the
communists stayed in Greece, and have lived peacefully ever since.

Michael.
                                                                
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8234 eunet.politics:1279 soc.culture.greek:8649
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Weird Europeans (was: Annoy Us (was Re:  What is a European
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:07:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


In article <1992Sep3.082813.23739@sunbim.be> sk@sunbim.be () writes:
>According to a Belgium newspaper  "Greeks" are
>supposed to be the most 'racist people' in Europe!!!

The Europeans are really weird people. According to what I read on this
group:

  Greeks are the most rasist people in Europe.
  Greeks are not really Europeans
  Greeks are considered a pain in the neck by all europeans
  Greeks are only trouble
  Europeans want Greeks to leave the EEC
  Europeans think Greece does not belong in the EEC
  Europeans are trying to figure out how to kick Greece out of the EEC
  Europeans are sick and tired of Greeks

AND YET.... (Always according to what is posted to this group)

   "Europeans sided with Greece in Lisbon because Greece threatened
             to leave the EEC".
   "Greeks are still blackmailing the EEC that they will leave, and
             that's why E. is catering to Greece's every whim."

MEANWHILE

   While Europeans supposedly tend hand and foot to Greece, they
             decline farm subsidies for France, risking a probable
             "NO" vote on Maastricht. (New York Times, 8 Sept 92)

   Even Denmark who has said "NO" to Maastricht (and should
             not therefore care less) sides with Greece, obviously
             in the belief that Europe can go on without Denmark, but
             cannot do without Greece.

LOGICAL CONCLUSION:

  Europeans are mazochists and/or schizophrenics who like to be abused,
  and the more upset Greeks get them to be, the more obedient to Greece
  they will be.

THEREFORE:
 I hereby propose the following actions that Greece can take to improve
its position in the European Economic Community:

GREEK ACTION                               EEC COUNTER-ACTION
Demand France be renamed "GoofyLand"       France renamed "Goofyland"
Spray-paint graffiti on the Vatican        Greece gets $34 Billion
Bomb Madrid w/water-filled condoms(Bugela) Athens becomes capital of EEC
Flood the Rhine with stale Gyro meat       Greek official lang. of EEC
Draw mustache on Mona Lisa                 EEC currency named "DRACHMA"

 Considering Europe's past history of dealing with Greeks, the above is
guaranteed to succeed. I say we start tommorow (I draw the mustache).

m.
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Patriotism and silliness
Date: 5 Sep 92 09:28:50 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <4150.3244.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) writes:
<<From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
<<So they did, but why would the Greeks (or any other nation, for that
<<matter) want to behave in a silly way just because the Americans did?
<<(You may call it "silly", I would call it "monstruous", but that is a
<<different matter.)
<
<Regardless of the politics involved, wrapping a 30-story building
<with a 12' yellow ribbon is silly, not monstruous.

It is silly in itself, regardless of the motive, by virtue of its nature.
It is also monstruous if done as a token of support of a monstruous deed.
The two things go very well together.

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8198 eunet.politics:1259 soc.culture.greek:8606 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8585