HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Nutrasweet infoexit
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 07:58:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Ted Feuerbach says: "Let's bring back those carcinogenic Cyclamates...
Now, that was *GOOD* stuff.  ;-)"

A cursory investigation satisfied me that we in the U.S. think cyclamates
bad and ban them, but saccharin is o.k.; that the Germans think saccharin
bad and cyclamates are o.k., and that the Israelis require a prescription
for either.

Since it's clear that nobody knows what they are doing here, it's a matter
of personal choice. Whenever I go to Germany, my first stop is at the
pharmacy at the Frankfurt airport, where I buy a 3-year supply of
"Natreen"--the local cyclamate. It tastes good and is heat stable, so
you can cook with it. The customs folks have always seen it in my bags
and never given me the slightest trouble about it. Dunno what they'd
do if you ordered some by mail.

Since the infamous cyclamate ban I read somewhere that scientists on the
NAS panel have concluded that the carcinogenic effect on rats was caused
by saccharin contamination in the test batches. But apparently U.S.
manufacturers are unwilling to go through the long, costly tests to get
cyclamate recertified here.

Anyone know any more about the above?

David

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Public Statement.
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:36:34 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

>I also am very angry at the tone of Steve Dyer's posts and his nearly
>total domination of this group over the past month.

Get real.  Let me tell you what I think is despicable, and I'll call
it for what it is.  This whining by a few individuals who would like
to turn this into the electronic form of a cockfight, trying to get
the other hens to peck someone to death.  If I have "dominated"
this group over the past month it is because of the reactions of Ted
and Michael who do not seem to respond well when their view of
reality is challenged, however slightly.   You can be certain that I
will persevere to call things as I see them when I read nutritional
information that is misleading or incorrect, and you might as well get
used to that.  That does not mean that it has to turn into an argument, but
let me remind you that it takes two or more to do that.  It is precisely
this sanctimonious harping and ridiculous high dudgeon by Ted and Michael,
and the peanut gallery as characterized by you and McWade which turns this
group into the maelstrom of controversy that is is.  If you don't like
what I write, you are welcome to ignore it, but I am not going to be
silent when misinformation is propagated.  Some people might learn
something from it.

>For your information, 
>David McWade was an extremely thoughtful vegan poster who posted a 
>great deal during the last academic year. I believe Steve Dyer has only
>been posting during the last 2 months.

Steve Dyer has been reading and posting to r.f.v for years.
My comment was referring to him as the object of one of my
"insults", such as they are.  I've never exchanged comments
with him.  I'm amused, however, at his insistence that I'm
"insulting vegetarians".

>I would appreciate from Steve Dyer
>more consideration for other posters than this.

After you, Mary, dear.

>It takes a lot to get
>me angry, but having gone away for 3 weeks and coming back to find
>Michael Traub no longer feels even able to post certainly does make
>me most concerned. 

That's Michael's problem, not mine.  Take it up with him.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Who is who on rfv - Version 3
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:53:51 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Sep2.060711.26235@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
writes:
> Version 3
> Category 0 : Lurking omnivores (Read their postings at your own 
> 		risk to your health)
> Mary Shafer	not so dangerous (Her last name is misspelt as Safer)

	Abhay, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Ms. Shafer has
	been a valuable participant in this forum, posting recipes often, and 
	for the past three years I have been reading this forum, I have never 
	seen her make the slightest disparaging remark about vegetarianism or 
	vegetarians. Your comment of "not so dangerous" implies that she is a
	dangerous, albeit a little bit - it is patently untrue. Her omnivorism
	shouldn't be counted against her - we vegetarians, as a minority in
	this world, need a lot of people like Ms. Shafer who are sympathetic 
	to us vegetarians. Her few postings on this net constituting health
	risk? Not in the slightest. You probably need to create a separate
	category - "friendly omnivores" to classify her.

	Other than that, I applaud your attempt.  

	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven Miale)
Subject: Re: Question
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:32:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.162415.17506@reed.edu>, zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch) writes:
> For example good pizza is great without cheese.  Notice the "good" bad
> pizza is dreadful without cheese.  Try making a pizza and instead of
> adding cheese on top, add more veggies and drizzle them will olive
> oil. Yum!

There is also something called white pizza, which doesn't have tomato
sauce or (I think) cheese. Some pizza shops carry it.

> Well if cholesterol is all you are worried about go wild with italian
> food.  Just use olive oil.  Olive oil is supposed to help you break
> down cholesterol.  Scientists correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

Actually, it's the garlic. It turns out that garlic is a natural
blood thinner, and does a great job keeping down cholesterol.

-- 
Steven Miale - spm2d@virginia.edu   | The problem with sweeping
Undergraduate Researcher            | generalizations is that they
Department of Computer Science      | are all wrong.
University of Virginia              |
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: vjelinek@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Virginia G Jelinek)
Subject: Re: Hi I'm new, but I don't like the flames
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:01:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.203326.25562@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.e
du (Leslie Bishko) writes:
>This group seems to have both ends of the extremes!  Kind folk who
>have mailed me personally and responded publicly, and this nasty
>swordfighting stuff!

It appears to me that certain people (by all means not all) are only willing to
be kind and supportive of those that they feel have the same views as theirs.  
Fortunately, it seems to be only a (very vocal) minority.
>
>                             Please cool your flames.
>
I agree.  You don't change people's opinions or views with insults.

Ginny
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: need zucchini chocolate cake recipe
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:31:24 GMT

On 1 Sep 92 05:22:47 GMT, Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) said:

Christine> The subject line says it all!   I've got a garden full of
Christine> zucchini and I'd love to make some of it into a zucchini 
Christine> chocolate cake.   Do any of you have a goodrecipe?

I'd suggest a quick bread type cake instead of regular cake.
Something along the banana nut bread idea.  I'd take a banana nut
bread recipe and replace the banana with cooked zucchini and then add
cocoa until it was chocolate-y enough.

In some neighborhoods you must always lock your car or it will be
full of zucchini when you return to it to drive away!

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: akcobb@amherst.edu
Subject: Re: Who is who of rec.food.veg - Version 1
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst Mass.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:36:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.121939.1249@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
> A directory of this newsgroup's posters/participants is
> a good idea. To start with, here is one. It is not very
> serious, but we can improve on this one. Please correct
> me if you are in the wrong category, and don't expect n
> answer till 13 September. More people need to be listed
> as well.

Look, this is getting out of hand.  I don't mind when the ridiculous
flame wars break out by the zillions; I just zap them with my trusty
kill file.  But to involve random people without their voluntary
involvement or even their knowledge is really overstepping bounds.

I think it is unfair to new readers to make them see this group through
anyone else's eyes.  It is unfair to the people who participate in this
group (posters and lurkers alike) to "describe" them arbitrarily.  This
group is unmoderated.  Readers read it only if they want to, and post
only if they want to.  It is silly to categorize people according to
someone else's opinion of them.  

Please stop trying to moderate and control rec.food.veg.  Or if you
really want it to change, CFV already.  But this is foolish.  No one
is the moderator, self-proclaimed or not.  And no one can designate
him/herself as the writer of the "group's participants' profile.
Don't violate common sense rules.

Amy
From: prem@prem.lbl.gov (Shirdi R. Prem)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: help with old tofu
Date: 28 Aug 1992 01:21:43 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: prem@prem.lbl.gov (Shirdi R. Prem)
NNTP-Posting-Host: prem.lbl.gov

In article <adwright.714951991@vincent1.iastate.edu> adwright@iastate.edu () writes:
>I throw it out when the bubbles start coming out of the tofu and into the 
>surrounding liquid, indicating fermentation is happening, I don't know if 
>it is still good, but I would not want it. 

	Reminds me of the time when my roommate threw out a        
                                                                  
	slice of pizza once he found mushrooms growing on it.... 8^%


	Hey, give him a break, we were grad students.......!!

	Prem!
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Canned gluten suggestions?
Summary: A gluten virgin pleads for help
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:11:35 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

Well, just came back from shopping at the local Asian supermarket....my
short lunch time excursion turned into a major money-spending expedition!
Anyway, I am now surrounded by exotic-looking veggies and - am the proud owner
of about 5 cans with labels like "Mock Duck", "Vegetarian Abalone" etc.
They're basically all fried gluten in sweetened soy sauce, and can be eaten
as is, but I'm wondering if anyone has any recipe suggestions?

Thanks,

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:46:36 GMT

Since it looks like we're taking an informal poll, my vote is NO
on splitting up the group.  The traffic on this group is not so
high that I can't keep up with it -- r.f.v is one of the few groups
I bother to scan carefully every day, and I read it from "the office".
I find the discussion and debate at least as valuable as the recipes,
and I think there's room for both here.

However, I would like to respectfully request that Rich Young and
Ted Wayn Altar take their current flame-war to email, as it's ceased
to be in any way informative to us schmoes on the sidelines.  Thanks!

--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
From: dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Public Statement.
Date: 1 Sep 92 06:18:03 GMT
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


I am getting very angry at people like Steve Dyer and Rich Young who
insist on attacking and flaming vegetarians viciously in the heat of
argument.  It has crossed my mind that perhaps they should volunteer to
leave the list.  If not, they should at least make a public apology to
Ted Altar, Michael Traub and myself (maybe more people?).  Rich Young
has implied in the past that I was a raving zealot and, I believe, has
called me a "liar" for suggesting, with evidence, that Type I diabetes
would be lessened sharply by a vegetarian diet.  Rich Young has also
promised to remove the quotes (upon realization, in this context, that
they were offensive: 

>My opinions are not necessarily shared by my employer...and you can lead a
zealot to knowledge, but you can't make one THINK!!!
>"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
>busybodies...those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without
>end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences." - C. S. Lewis

He has promised to remove these quotes and then consistently put them
back in his .sig.  

What is most offensive, though, is that they have succeeded in hassling
Mike Traub, perhaps one of the three or four biggest contributors to
this list (with both recipes and cited studies) to the extent that he
does not feel that he can post an argument anymore without being
stridently attacked.

I do not think it is completely out of the realm of possibility to
suggest that Rich Young and/or Steve Dyer are doing this intentionally
in order to remove prominent vegetarians from this list.  

They seem to remind me of the Republican Party in this country (this is
an election year in America, and the Republicans are the party of the
rich and greedy special interests.)  The Republican Party will make
negative personal attacks and then whine about how the Democrats are
making the negative personal attacks when the Democrats are merely using
simple factual evidence against the Republicans, which is certainly
within the realm of good manners.  

Simple points of comparison- I wonder: Are Republicans simply more
aggressive than Democrats?  (Would Dyer and Young get away with being
more aggressive toward vegetarians?  Did the Republicans do that to
Michael Dukakis in 1988?)  And, is it beyond the realm of possibility
for Dyer and Young to give simple apologies to both myself and other
people whom they have so callously insulted?

David McWade
dm3o@andrew.cmu.edu
Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT for so long.  You feel
sleepy.  Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink.  Close your
eyes.  The opinions stated above are yours.  You can't imagine why you
ever felt otherwise.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: Thanks for your support!!!
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:52:17 GMT

Thanks to all who have responded to some of my vegetarian dilemmas!

   - I'll explore new culinary paths via miscellaneous burgers

   - I think I may taste a bite of meat..but I won't go for a serving
     because I know it'll make me sick!  (call me a hovering omnivore..)

	 - Imagine animals being slaughtered...no thanks.  I don't need to
	   make myself sick on imagery when I can see starving Somalians on TV.

   - All the relatives KNOW about my vegetarianism, but they have no
     concept of what it actually IS.  The worst occured last
		 Passover.  I reminded Dad in advance that I wouldn't be eating
		 meat.  Since I was in the kitchen while meals were being
		 prepared, I was able to arrange food for myself, but Dad's wife
		 decided to ignore my needs.  Since she was cooking for a crowd,
		 and I was a guest in her house, I kept quiet but felt extremely
		 hurt.  If I was a guest in a friend's house, I'd go ahead and
		 bring my own food, but I expect that holidays at home are times 
		 TO BE FED since the festivities revolve around feasting!  How
		 lonely to feel left out at feast time!  (maybe I'll share a nut
		 loaf with them next time.)

	- Indian, Thai, Chinese restaurants - my favorites...but, when
	  dining with those of more continental tastes, the vegetarian dishes
	  on the menu seem to be there as a token.  And the meat-based
		dishes sound so appealing...

  - oh by the way, I'm doing Weight Watchers.  Their vegetarian stuff
	  is pretty lame too, but the program has helped me balance my
	  nutrition, and I feel healthy.  The problem I have with some of
		my veggie cookbooks is dairy and fat substitution, and being able
		to measure and count protein/grain-bread portions according to
		the WW program.  I found alt.support.diet pretty interesting!

Ok, back to work now - thanks again!


-- 
Leslie Bishko
leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Subject: Re: buckwheat seed (caution)
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:53:41 GMT

nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) writes:
>A recent posting asking for buckwheat recipes got my attention because the
>poster (Drew) mentioned the groats had been intended for planting.  I would
>be very cautious about eating anything bought as seed for growing purposes, 
>unless it is specifically marked as organic and/or untreated.

Ours was untreated and intended as suitable for human consumption. However,
thanks for the warning as in this day and age one needs to be mindful of
such things. Maybe some day we will not have to concern ourselves with such
issues because everyone, everywhere will recognise the merit of organic
farming and natural, untreated foods.

>BTW, you can eat buckwheat groats for breakfast, as hot cereal ...

Yes I had some in our home made muslie this morning :-)!

Thanks,

Drew.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:54:26 GMT

In article <anne.714944990@menaik> anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield) writes:
>altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>> Did you know that Anne Nield on another
>> occasion had to once suffer from the repeated and continuous e-
>> mail assult of the message, "YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE" for 2 hours one day?
>
>And the funny part about THIS is that it was BEFORE the discussion
>on colon cleansing...:):):)

You mean you've _mellowed_ since then?

:-)

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)  Obligatory invitation for Ted
now to disparage my carnivorous sense of humor.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Wanted - Indian Vegetarian Cookbook
From: john@spss.com (John Przyborowski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:45:51 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

susan@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>I have been looking for an Indian Vegetarian Cookbook, and have been
>totally unsuccessful. I have one Indian cookbook which is quite
>good, but has large sections of poultry, fish etc which to me
>is a waste of perfectly good paper.

>Does anyone out there have any recommendations? I would need
>reasonable details such as author, title, publisher, country of
>publication if possible and year, so I could order it through
>our bookshop. An indication of price (and currency), and a description
>of the contents would also be useful.

>Thanks in advance

>Susan Brown


Susan:  I just purchased "Lord KRSNA's Cuisine: The Art of Indian Vegetarian
Cooking" by ? (totally blanked on her name).  Excellent, excellent book.
MAssive in scope, very thorough, and, from what I am told, doesn't concen-
trate on Mogul (northern India) cuisine as do most.  There's a healthy
smattering of Gujarati, Bengali, Tamil, Goanese etc.  It's expensive,
$30, but its harcover and huge.  My treat to myself for this month.

If you need the author's name or the ISBN #, email me and let me know.  Most
reputable bookmongers should have this in stock or will order it.

John
SPSS
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: mold on Maple syrup
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:10:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep2.021013.2168
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <secxZk600WBMA6wkkk@andrew.cmu.edu> Brenda Graham <bg0s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Can anyone tell me whether the substance which has grown on the surface
>of my unrefrigerated maple syrup (bought in bulk at a food coop) during
>hot and humid august (but has not grown there ever before that I
>recollect) is unharmful mold that can be skimmed off or is something
>that deserves more respect (and distance).
>Its greenish and pretty benign looking.

The question is, "does it move?" :-)

Seriously, I've had mold develop even on refrigerated syrup.
My own take on it is that I don't even want to take the chance
of using it; better safe than sorry.  I fully admit this may
be excessively scrupulous and wasteful of me, but...


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Version 2 of who is who on rec.food.veg (still not serious)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:12:11 GMT

In article <drew.715482037@cs.anu.edu.au> drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan) writes:
>cindy@meshugge.media.mit.edu (Cindy Blank-Edelman) writes:
>>Might I suggest that whoever compiles the FAQ consider appending a
>>list of "introductions" from participants in this newsgroup?  Anyone
>>who wanted to could introduce her/himself to the group, and the group
>>of introductions could be posted with the FAQ on a regular basis.
>>This would eliminate judgemental characterizations ("joking" or not),
>>would let people get to know who's who, and would allow others to not
>>participate if they don't want to.  Also, anyone should be able to
>>revise or remove her/his introduction at any point, or add one at any
>>point.  

This idea is good.

>
>I agree that a voluntary poster's list is best. I read misc.kids and I am
>on a couple of mailing lists (one for home educators and another for 
>gymnastics). Each of these has a voluntary list of the names of participants
>and their interest in the forum. The merit of the voluntary approach is
>that no one is offended and misattributions are less likely. Plus it is
>fun to see who contributes/reads the group and why.
>
>Perhaps Abhay could offer to collect introductions from readers of this
>group and thus prepare an inoffensive and collectively supported list.
>(I would volunteer to this task myself but I am far too busy.)

That has been suggested already in e-mails to several people, and will
make it  clear in the  Version  4,  appearing in a few minutes.  There
have been  so  many positive replies that it looks like we  can have a
new version everyday only if I were not to go out of town for the next
few days.

>
>Regards,
>
>Drew.
>

With regards,


-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg