HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clc@nevada.edu (Chris L. Cobb)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Organization: UCCSN-SCS
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:55:24 GMT

<MEH124@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Regarding a previous post that got a good deal of response about the thought
>of curing homosexuality, most people on the net seem strongly opposed to whole
>idea of a cure.  But what about those people that really struggle with their
>sexuality and really don't want to be "homosexual."

I think we need to cure the reasons these people are struggling:
bigotry, intolerance and blind religious fundamentalism.  If
being homosexual wasn't a _bad_ thing there would be no struggle.

Why don't we ever talk about finding a cure for being
heterosexual, white, male and Christian?  God knows, we'd be
helping a larger portion of the population and make the world a
better place for the rest of us.

Are you homosexual?

---
Chris L. Cobb -- clc@nevada.edu -- B0 f t+ w c+ g k+ s++ p
This signature is not Politically Correct, just differently worded!
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu (Karen Kenny aka Mel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: The bored and the boring ...
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:49:11 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <BzGytH.1722@austin.ibm.com>, alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
> 
> THE PROBLEM WITH FEMINISM, IN ONE EASY SENTENCE:
> 
> Feminism is too boring, and takes itself too seriously.

So is self-centeredness, arrogance, and the shallowness that
you convey when posting these statements, Alan.  How do you
react when you overhear a strayt conversation where it is said
"Gays and lesbians take this gay-bashing and AIDS thing too
seriously".  

It is so defeating whenever _anyone_ downplays another's struggle
for equality, for justice, for simply an easier go of it than
they have had.  We all aren't expected to cheer, or lend a hand
or even agree with what is trying to be achieved, but statements
like the above feel like some sort of "kicking of sand in the face"
to me, a deliberate attempt to pooh-pooh or denigrate something
that a significant number of people find purposeful.  Why?  
 
> You will never win the market-share-of-the-mind by telling
> people how BAD they are for thinking the way they do.
> 
> But ........... make it attractive.  Make it fun.  Make it,
> oh-fer-crissake ..... HIP to be a feminist (no fair snickering
> at the Alan Alda and Phil Donohue jokes right now!).
> THEN watch it take off.  We need a sort of Lee Atwater

Oh, I see ... make the use of inclusive language beneficial
for those who enjoy the slant of the non-inclusive present
language set ... in other words, cater to white men again.

"Win the market-share", "make it fun", "make it attractive" ...
feminism isn't a game show, Alan, and it isn't an intellectual
sport, and it has very little to do with focusing on men like
you.  That's probably why you find it "boring".  

Karen
+======================================================+
                                         Karen S. Kenny
"Of course, you silly things!"      kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
                                  Medical College of VA                      
                                           Richmond, VA
+======================================================+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:23:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.140215.2562@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:

>In article <Bzo2DH.DFx@cs.columbia.edu> ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes:
>
>>6. Should I really be working on finishing my thesis and not bothering
>>soc.motss with my morning (very late night, actually) bitchiness?
>
>Oh yes. Very much so. And when you finish the thesis, be sure to post
>here that you're finally done. People like me, who've been through it
>and remember what it feels like, will probably congratulate you though
>we've never met and don't even know your topic. Maybe if you're lucky
>someone will sneer at you because it doesn't weigh enough. :-)

Thanks, Kate.  The smiley, IMHO, was far too kind.  I hope that Ailsa
(not to mention our other motss parents) was not so unfortunate as to
read this thread.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Poinsettias
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:35:55 GMT

d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:

>At first I thought that this posting didn't belong on MOTSS, then I remembered:
>All gay men are florists at heart (interior designers, too!)

I forgot the ObMotss: Truman Capote hated poinsettias too.

>Treat them at cut flowers. They will ALWAYS die back - all of the leaves will
>fall off. Unless you live in a tropical climate or are a seasoned green thumb,
>these holoday herbal horrors are imossible to keep alive beyond mid-January.

When living in San Francisco I once parked one on the breezeway landing.
It lived for three months without watering.

Well, OK, I watered it a little.  I just can't stand to watch a living
thing suffer.  But they look *so* dumpy when they lose their color.

>Throw them out (or compost them) when you get sick of them.

I'm too much of a softie.  I need to find them a home.

>P.S. Brent, I think it is sweet that your husband wanted to brighten up your
>home for the holidays.

Yep, he's a sweetie all right. :)

But now you've given my husband Barry a golden opportunity to demuffin.
He finds UNIX a little intimidating.  Send him mail at bburns@agora.rain.com 
if you want to encourage him to post.  Come on, honey, I know you're reading
this...
-- 
Brent Capps                          |        
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | (B4) h t w- c+ g+ k? s-: e++ r-
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: More on Roseanne & Cast
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<rizzoe.580.724600003@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU>
	<1992Dec17.213315.7090@njitgw.njit.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:43:25 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec17.213315.7090@njitgw.njit.edu> andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy) writes:

   When they were speaking to Martin Mull about him playing a gay 
   character on Roseanne, he said something to effect "I didn't
   know at first my character was to be gay, then they dropped
   the (frown, snicker, pause) *bombshell" on me".

   The whole comment had a very negative connotation to it.  Nobody
   flagged him on it.  Oprah just smiled.  I was very disappointed
   in Martin Mull for portraying a gay character and then suggesting
   that he wasn't happy about having done it.

Martin Mull has a very dry sense of humor.  I'd be very surprised if
he's homophobic.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Subject: Re: Coming out at work - HELP!
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:59:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.074006.12264@mic.ucla.edu> cjones@physci.ucla.edu
(Chad Jones) writes:

>There's a store in West Hollywood called Don't Panic that has all kinds
>of confrontational t-shirts.  My latest favorite: "Due to the change in
>the administration, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned
>back on."  

That's _wonderful!_

>They have a mail-order operation and the number is 1-800-DONT PANIC.

That's not correct:  It's 1-800-45-PANIC.  (I just called 800 directory
assistance to verify it.)

--Rich
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: The Foreskin-Impaired (was Re: Drooling over...)
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:29:04 GMT

In article <1h6fivINNp1n@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Peter Cooper) writes:
>
>BTW:  are all Europeans uncircumcised like the film implies?  It's not
>like Australia ;-)

I think that circumcision only recently (past few decades) came
into widespread vogue. Among those who were adults during WWII
(whether European, Australian, American, whatever), I think
circumcision was very uncommon, except among those with religious
reasons (e.g. Jews & Moslems).

I ran across a book set in the US during WWII; the hero realises,
during the induction process, that he's the only Jew in the room
because he's the only one circumsized. This is a shock, since the
hero grew up in Brooklyn.

I hear that circumcision is now going out of fashion again
(though not in *my* family...).
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:27:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.054447.18948@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
|ObMotss: just went to my first gay bar all by myself. I was quite
|nervous, actually. And bored - I drank my drink, and left. How does
|one loiter?

  Well, what I do is wander in with a copy of some railroad book or
literary magazine, sit down at a table or the end of the bar, and
start reading, drinking, and gently ogling.  When I finish the
magazine/book, run out of money, or get picked up, I leave :-)

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/  "Of course, this probably depends on what kind
                  \/    of bar you're trying to loiter in"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: misek@boulder.parcplace.com (Steve Misek)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics. motss)
Organization: ParcPlace Boulder
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:57:41 GMT


 ::
 ::	soc.motss.misc
 ::

seems rather recursive

:-)

steve
misek@parcplace.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Jim Hubbs)
Subject: Re: ** Acceptable Risks **
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:00:56 GMT

misek@boulder.parcplace.com (Steve Misek) writes:

>The book is:
>	Acceptable Risks
>	by Jonathan Kwitney
>		Poseidon Press/Simon & Schuster
>		ISBN: 0-671-73244-7

>Ok, Ok, I'll come down off my soapbox now... however if you need
>an incredible book to read... please look for this book.  For those
>of you living in siberia (sorta like me... I live in Colorado) you
>can probably order this through Lambda Rising, or any of those 
>incredible big city book stores that I would kill to live next to.

You may not even need to go that far.  I saw it just today on 
the new book shelf of my local library.  Not a big city library,
but a small suburban county library.

Jim Hubbs
Visibility = Life
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Valerie Solanis (SCUM)
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:38:45 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec28.165250.13277@bsu-ucs>, d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
> In article <BzyxK3.7sI@stonewall.demon.co.uk>, nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield) writes:
>> 
>> Who was the original author? Was is Valerie Solanas? And whatever became
> 
> Yeah, it was Valerie Solanis (c.1967-8)
> 
> i have no idea what became of her.
***Correction***

While looking through my files, a Seattle publication _Ecce_Queer_ "above and
Beyond the call of assimilation"
Vol.1 No. 1 Fall 1991
states:
	"Valerie Solanis was a radical queer before the wimmin's movement,
before Stonewall. After shooting Andy Warhol, she was committed to Matewan, an
asylum for the criminally insane, where she eventually killer herself."

So, I guess we can assume, that she is dead.


David
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 12:06:57 GMT

In article <1hs001INNg4d@mizar.usc.edu>
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Maybe I'll just stay at home
>and finish knitting that afghan I started in 1973.

Oh, now *here's* a Queer Question (tm): what fraction of
afghans are knitted and what fraction are crocheted?  My
granny could crochet a good-sized afghan in less than a day.

(I suppose the puns on Afghans (the hounds and the hardy
folk), as well as on minims, crochets, and quavers are now
unavoidable.  In the latter category, notated replies will be
noted favorably; I get quivery (an arch reaction), though
not quacky, over quavers and occasionally crotchety over
both crochets and crotches.)

<> The first thing you do is forget that I'm Black.  Second,
<> you must never forget that I'm Black.
<> -- Pat Parker, "For the white person who wants to be my friend"
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: mikel@dosbears.UUCP (Mike Lipsie)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 27 Dec 92 02:15:55 GMT
Reply-To: dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com
Organization: DOS Bears

In article <Bzvv4C.FqH@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <BzvoK4.537@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>Finally, sometime between 7 and 10 years you will resign yourself
>>to hearing the following question every evening for the rest of your 
>>life: "I dunno, what do YOU want to do for dinner?"
>
>I guess Dan and I have packed a decade worth of living into the past year.
>Then again, time flies when you're having fun...

Maybe we just do things at a faster pace, Roger.      :-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal)
Subject: Re: The Crying Game SONG ? (NOT A SPOILER)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 05:22:55 GMT

In article <C0At1q.DDL@stonewall.demon.co.uk> nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield) writes:
>In article <1993Jan3.180654.16585@adobe.com> shore@adobe.com (Andrew Shore) writes:
>>
>>Now for my question --
>>Who has recorded the song from which the movie gets its title?
>
>Although I don't think he actually sings it during the film, Boy George
>has recently released a single of the Crying Game (well, a couple of
>months ago, I think - round about the time the film came out in the
>UK)

The Boy George rendition is played over the closing credits.

      -paul asente
	   asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

Downstairs the three of them played a most amusing game of Herbert's own
invention called "Thumbfumble."  They then sat down to a sumptuous tea.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dross@cambizola.cs.wisc.edu (Dan Ross)
Subject: Re: Muffin on Parade
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:17:52 GMT

In <55440005@hpscit.sc.hp.com> jprigeon@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Prigeon) writes:
>[...]
>One thing about the bear code has puzzled me, though.  Does anyone really
>use e+ or e++?  IMHO, it sounds like telling someone at a bar that you're,
>oh, a millionare or dated Tom Cruise (or Wilford Brimley for the ursine 
>types), or something. 

>jap, wondering just exactly what the demarcation is between e+ and e++.

"Oh _my_." vs. "YOU'RE GOING TO DO **WHAT**?!!"
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success sto
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:43:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.174347.24185
Organization: insert anything here

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>When one of us is out of town for business or whatever, the other
>>partner must have the house spic n' span upon his return.
>
>Egad, if we'd made that a rule, I wouldn't have lasted a month, let alone
>14 years.

	Why should this be hard?  I mean with one person away
it's one less person the hung Hungarian houseboy has to clean up
after?!

	(Well, that could also be hung Hungarian Housedaddybear)

BBC, making up
his 1993 Xmas list...  :-)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 11:06:55 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec23.173528.25908@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> 
psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge) writes:

> Before I get into this, the Truth in Posting Law requires me to make the
> same dangerous disclosure Jess did: I've hardly read Dworkin at all, and 
> what I did was a *very* long time ago (maybe an essay in _Against SM_?). 

I read _Intercourse_ last year (prompted, in part, by an
inflammatory review of it -- and her -- in the London Review
of Books), and bits and pieces of her most recent "novel", 
and essays here and there over the years, and I followed 
her anti-porn campaign very closely. 

[ ... ]
> Still, am very uncomfortable with some of the criticism she gets, here and 
> elsewhere.
>
> Part of it is that Dworkin's often used to discredit all feminists as a 
> whole, as if all feminists have identical analyses.

Yes, and that explains the caveat I put at the beginning of
my last article in this thread.  My problem is with Dworkin's
analysis (and MacKinnon's, too, where their views overlap,
such as in their belief that women cannot *be* prostitutes
but rather are prostituted; or in their shared belief that
even *gay* porno is violence against women).

[ ... ]
> The other, more important, part for me is that people criticize her by 
> discrediting not only her ending points in her arguments, but her starting
> points, too.

By starting points, what do you mean?  That when there's
a power imbalace true consensuality is not possible?  Fine.
I agree.  That rape-murders are bad?  Sure, I go along with
that too.  But I have a problem once she goes beyond that.

> As I said above, I strongly disagree with her conclusions. 
> But I don't think the question she's trying to answer -- what does 
> consensuality mean within the context of a massive power difference between
> the individuals involved? -- is the least bit looney.

I don't think she's trying to *answer* these or any other
questions.

Arne
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Camp (was Re: LesBiGay and Transgender Glossary (long))
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:05:53 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <BzoKp8.H0C@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> 
albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.233342.24896@osf.org>
> alan@ninja.osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writes:
> >Camp: To exaggerate _feminine_ behaviors, usually for others'
> >entertainment.  Also, to _camp it up_.  (See _butch it up_.)
>
> Actually, "camp" is a form of humor,

Camp is more than a "form of humor".  It's a sensibility.

> in which one makes fun of one's
> oppression by taking on and exaggerating stereotypes which the oppressor
> projects on to the oppressed. 

Hmmmm.  How does Maria Montez figure in this?

> Thus homosexual men "camping it up" are
> involved in exaggerating feminine behaviors because the stereotype of
> gay men is that they are "effeminate."  Camp makes fun of the
> stereotype and laughs at the sting of the oppression.  

Yes, but.

> The key is in the exaggeration and actual employment of the stereotype.

That's *a* key, certainly.

> Camp is most closely associated with the gay subculture, but it need not
> be. 

I disagree with you entirely on that point.

> A black person who for purposes of a joke, calls another black person 
> "nigger" is engaging in camp humor. 

Umm, no.

> If you are interested in this topic,  
> see Susan Sontag who has published on this subject.

Yes, do read Sontag's "Notes on Camp".  But also keep in mind
that a lot of her judgments are, to my mind, highly questionable.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 00:23:29 GMT

I discovered while holiday shopping that many skiing clothes
and accessories sold in California (and elsewhere, I'd imagine)
are made in redneck parts of Colorado, like Durango. For
anyone who may be wondering how to hit the CO rednecks without
disproportionally hurting the more lesbigay-positive places
such as Aspen: check the label on that gaiter, bula, or jacket
before you buy it!

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:52:28 GMT

In article <jhansen.725045685@convex.convex.com> 
 jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen) writes:
>...or, "thanks for contributing to an already over-crowded planet"
>...or, "how self-centered and selfish of you for bringing a child into this
>        world in this day and age"
>...or, "quit shoving your sexuality down my throat"

I'm sure your queer friends with children appreciate your sentiments, James.

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "Please don't hop on your high horse when it is already dead."
         --Mark Morrissey (markm@cse.ogi.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Uninformed :)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:13:39 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1hv972INN9ph@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <168CE204E.00112716@ysub.ysu.edu>, 00112716@ysub.ysu.edu writes:
>
>
>|>    I have just started reading soc.motss and would like it if someone would
>|> please post/mail me translations for bear, smurf, etc. codes so I will know
>|> where I stand and can understand what others mean.
>
>Remember: Ignorance is bliss.

His bliss or ours?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:51:28 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum

mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In the South, just substitute "Krystal" or "Po' Folks" for "White
>Castle" and you get precisely the same response (although IMHO a
>Krystal and White Castle _are_ the same burger :-).

Now, Mike...why pick on 'lil 'ol Po' Folks when there's
a Waffle House as close as your nearest freeway exit?

Or maybe two?
-- 
Brent Capps                          |        
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | (B4) h t w- c+ g+ k? s-: e++ r-
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |