From: johnsd2@lib106.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Reply-To: johnsd2@lib106.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:22:14 GMT

In article FqC@world.std.com, kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu) writes:
>In article <=al3f1_@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1 writes:
>>In article 1jq1p6INNfml@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca, wrob@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert Wong) writes:
>>>In article <f-k39qq@rpi.edu> johnsd2@lib102.its.rpi.edu.its1 writes:
>>>[whoops, I munched the other guy!]
>>>>>  As a regular user of NeXT, you will NEVER need to
>>>>>log in as root.
>>>>
>>>>Unless you want to change your login tiff. :)
>>>>
>>>>But what about the poor fool system administrators? Why should
>>>>they want a delicate system?
>>>
>>>Perhaps I should try and clarify the issue of the login TIFF.  When the 
>>>sysadmin changes the login tiff, everyone who logs in to the system will have
>>>this new login tiff.
>>>
>>>The changing of the login tiff is not a system-supported operation.  You 
>>>change it at your own risk.
>>
>>Ow.
>>
>>Ok, I do see where you are coming from, and it does make
>>some sence, but I disagree with this philosophy.
>>
>>This essentially says: "This bit of the computer shall not be used,
>>penalty for illicit usage being the chance of mucking your computer
>>up."
>
>How about - if Joe Mac user destroys his system it is his fault,
>but on a system with built-in safeguards it is the OS's fault?

The FAULT is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

If the user can destroy his system without wishing to do so,
that is a flaw.

>It is easier to muck up a NeXT because there are so many files.
>But they're protected.

A minus and a plus.

>>
>>If this is so, don't bother putting the feature in at all, because
>>some of the users will try to use it, and some will screw up.
>
>I've seen people trim 5.25" disks to fit in 1.44 meg drives.
>I have no doubt that some people will want to use the new feature. 
>See below.

:)

>>
>>If, on the other hand, the feature is actually there for people to use,
>>then it should be done in as solid a way as possible. There is no
>>benefit gained from this failure to log in! No power is accrued this
>>way! You might as well make the system recover from human errors when
>>it can. Because humans DO make the errors, even Wonderous System
>>Admins With the Root Password, never mind Ordinary Joe Single
>>User Types with the Root Password.
>
>Luckily for these Murphy's Law users there is an application called
>DefaultManager.  With a GUI, you understand.  With drag and drop
>simplicity, you could say.  Even changes the login tiff.

Does the app come with the system?

If so, then my objection in the login tiff is reduced
to the usual CLI objection, no more, and can be ignored.
I wont keep bringing it up.

Well, assuming the problem can't be generated  by this (or other)
GUI techniques. If this is just as dangerous, its no improvement.

>Let be see if I got you on this one - if a system adds features,
>it has a responsibility to idiot proof these features.

Right.

>  So far, so good.
> That's why there is root.

Right. But if this is not adequate? Seems not to have been in this
case.

>  There has got to be some
>level, however deep, that you can do this sort of thing with
>impunity.  Joe MacUser could start fiddling with system files
>with a hex editor on the mac - does a panel pop up?  

Yes. Well, if he uses the usual one.

It tells him that editing the system file is dangerous.

But my point is more along the lines that the next
is dying when it does not have to. This does not do anything
to help power users. It would not hurt at all to provide
a "generate a login image wo/ a tiff". And it would have saved
someone some grief.

C'mon, it cant be all that hard to open a dialog box. And it will
save you from that wonderfull "gee lets delete this file" sort
of approach. :)
---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy