From: grendel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alyosha Bourgea)
Subject: Re: Here Are The Undeniable Truths of Life
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:36:37 GMT

In <26671@optima.cs.arizona.edu> hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue) writes:

>In article <grendel.722041805@camelot> grendel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alyosha Bourgea) writes:
>[stuff deleted]
>>>24. Feminism was established so that unattractive women could have 
>>>    access to the mainstream of society.                           
>>Absolute bullshit, possibly the most offensive of Limbaugh's bogus "truths".
>>Limbaugh insults and ignores what he does not understand or what makes him
>>uncomfortable.  He prefers to wallow in his own illusions.  This contention
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^
>  I suppose his "right wing" illusions are worse than the "left wing" 
>illusions.  Education (a very ambiguous one) solves everything.  Getting
>rid of weapons will rid us of war (unless one guy siezes the moment).
>Affirmative action will relieve us of all racism: although ignorant I admit,
>many people will blame minorities for their problems, citing that the minority
>couldn't compete for the job, but was placed there simply because of their
>minority status.  This would cause even more hatred.   

This is _your_ idea of the "left wing" illusions.  Remember that there is no
liberal equivalent to Rush Limbaugh.  Despite all the "liberal media" flap,
there's no liberal talk show host out there telling people "How It Ought To
Be".  Limbaugh makes a list of his conservative opinion, masquerading as
undeniable truth.  Liberals make no such egotistical contention.

I consider myself a liberal's liberal, more or less.  My response to your
list of "left-wing illusions":

--Education will not solve everything, but it is the building block upon which
  most future solutions rest, and it is being neglected.

--Getting rid of weapons decreases the possibility of war, but people will
  always have violent impulses.  We currently have more weapons than we could
  ever hope to need, and we currently spend far too much on weapons that are
  totally redundant.

--Affirmative action _is_ racism.

>  I, like most people, don't agree with 100% of Rush's (if I may call him
>that) ideas, but who agrees with 100% of anybody's?  What he thinks you
>consider illusion, what you think I consider illusion.  Besides, who does
>understand the feminist movement? 	

I don't think anyone understands it completely, but certainly the more one
has been involved in it, the more one understands of it.  I've not been nearly
as active as women I know, but for a man I think I'm fairly well aware of the
realities of it--certainly more than Mr. Limbaugh.

 I just thought of it as low esteemed 
>women.  My girlfriend is smarter and more charasmatic than I, and I consider
>her "better" than myself, and she didn't have to partake in any Feminism
>thing to prove that to me or anybody.

I think this constitutes an unfortunate lack of self-esteem on your part.
I'm also involved with the men's rights movement, and it's just as sexist
and self-destructive to call a woman "better" than you, or even smarter or
more charismatic.  Feminism isn't about proving anything; it isn't about
domination or feminine machismo.  Feminism is about improving social 
consciousness wrt women, and about improving equal rights for women.
It's not about S&M.