HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 16:35:21 GMT

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>Yes, but is not Zorro II the equivalent of ISA, and Zorro III the equivalent
>>of EISA, roughly speaking?  There is a price difference between ISA and EISA
>>486 systems I believe.  Of course, the A3000 is a better machine than the
>>A2000, but, for some reason, we are comparing Amigas to Intel PCs, not Amigas
>>to Amigas.
>
>I only responded to the "If you are going to get an 040 board...".  There are
>two reasons, in my opinion, to buy an A2000.  1)  If you want/need a video toaster.
>2) If you want/need to run a bridgeboard.

There is one more reason:  price.

>The A3000 features the enhanced chipset, which the A2000 doesn't (maybe you
>can get chip upgrades).  Even then, the A2000 won't support more than 1MB
>of CHIP RAM, while the A3000 gives you 2MB.  The A3000 also gives you 32-bit
>wide CHIP RAM, which is a big win if you have the CPU accessing the CHIP
>RAM in your programs.

Yes, you can install the enhanced chip set in the A2000 (and the A500).  Yes,
you can add 2M of chip RAM to the A2000 (and the A500).  I did not realize
that the A3000 has 32-bit access to chip RAM, though.  Good point.  However,
again, I am comparing an 040 Amiga to a 486.  It seems to me that the A2000/040
is a better comparison; it is less expensive than the A3000, and enhancements
can be added at any time.

-- Gerald
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:    C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:43:29 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Apr12.213844.2389@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>The bottom end of the PC market is so low now, that quality assurance is
>>starting to suffer.  There are 386/486 pc clones being sold that can't run
>>in protected mode due to timing and other problems.  The boards are being
>>designed and slapped into systems as fast as they can make them.  The
>>result is very cheap boxes that can run MSDOS, and that's it.

>This is serious BS.  Nobody sells anything these days that doesn't run
>Windows, which requires strict compatibility as well as protected mode
>operation.  I don't know where you get this stuff.  If anything, the
>quality of low-end clones has been getting better.  They all run Windows,
>have large caches, and are expandable to at least 32MB RAM.

Windows does not run in 386 protected mode.  

There are many clones out there that will not run standard SVR3 and SVR4
UNIX.  I spent almost a year evaluating UNIX on 386 and 486 motherboards.
The ones that failed, failed with horrible bus timing problems related to
the hardware.  These problems were tracked down with a logic analyzer.

Some motherboards failed with Adaptec 154x SCSI controllers because they
couldn't handle the busmaster mode of the SCSI controller.

Some motherboards had problems with DMA.

These same boards would run MSDOS and Windows without a hitch.

>>They are
>>being sold at such a low margin, and there are so many companies trying
>>to undercut each other, that there will soon be a point where small clone
>>companies will start dropping like flies.  The prices will ease back up
>>to the DELL or Gateway level.

>Ha!  We'll see...

Small clone companies are already beginning to fail.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:01:21 GMT

har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>
>Oh, like the famed unix review article where they were sent an untuned small
>machine. Yeah, right.
>

Uh-huh.  Tell me, Pete, why must one tune a machine that comes with the OS
pre-installed and supposedly ready to go?

>
>Look, the unix magazines know that their largest market is people coming into
>unix with their 386 boxes, and the last thing these people want to see is
>any benchmark that would make their boxes seem inferior. If such benchmarks
>show up, they will be supressed.
>

More BS from the master.  Gee, the superior Apollo and Sun benchmark results
sure didn't seem "suppressed".  Time to grow out of your delusions and fears
of conspiracy, Pete.

>
>Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: umamihud@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Amihude)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: WB2.1
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:54:04 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


  Just some news on WB2.1.  I have just heard WB2.1 (version 38), should
be coming out sometime this summer (no need to change the ROM), and that
Commodore is also working Version 39 right now (which will require a ROM
change)..  This news taken from a very reliable source.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: borres@aix.rpi.edu (Steven D. Borrelli)
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:01:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.000614.24219@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
>>Talk about capitalizing on a buyer's stupidity..Then again, thats the IBM way.
>
>A few years ago Apple wanted people to call SCSI "sexy" instead of "scuzzy".
>I have even heard new computer users talk about their S-C-S-I drives.
>


"I've got a large hard drive for that sexy interface. Perhaps we can daisy
chain our equipment. Do you have a terminator?"


(Sorry. I really am. I'll never do it again.)


-- 
Steven D. Borrelli                
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute '92                  
borres@rpi.edu  (NeXTmail)
From: rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom"
Date: 3 Apr 92 05:58:56 GMT
Organization: Rob's home system, Hopkins, MN

In article <1992Mar31.134509.7702@ms.uky.edu>, justin@mik.uky.edu (Justin Sullivan) writes:
|> Nonsense.The Quadra's video is much, much faster then the native video of any  
|> other Mac (and even much faster then native Amiga video). Try it on 24-bit  
	My Amiga stock video switches screens with no noticable delays
	other than the fact the screen just changed to something completely
	different. Please elaborate on what you mean by faster than native
	Amiga video.

|> The burden of proof is yours. You made the claim.

	Seebs did NOT make the original claim, check the thread more carefully.
	The original poster said the Amiga COULDN'T do something, not that
	nobody has bothered to implement it yet.

|> Our university is ready to open a faculty support center with desktop video.
!> To my knowledge, Amigas were never even considered. If they were, they were  
|> clearly beaten by the other three supported platforms in the center.. PS/2,  
|> Quadra and NeXT. That's a good show of what can be done on other platforms..
	
	1) PS/2, Quadra or NeXT's are probably being GIVEN to the project so
	   that influences who get's choosen.

	2) If it's a REAL desktop video lab then they'll have a Toaster for
	   PC or Mac there with the label obscured. The other platforms can
	   do video as good as an Amiga because they are acting as front
	   ends to the Amiga...

	3) Cost is the main reason they'll go with a toaster as equivalent
	   Mac, PC or NeXT hardware would be more than a stand alone Toaster.

		-Rob
From: Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:03:02 GMT
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Thu  9 Apr 92 07:16, Aissmith@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (doug
wrote:


 A> I used to do that often - quite often - too often in fact.  To be
 A> brutally
 A> honest, there is a stark difference between Amiga and IBM owners. 
 A> Amiga
 A> owners tend to look into things and don't follow blindly (thats
 A> probably
 A> why they own Amigas over IBMs) whilst IBM owners tend to be geeky
 A> people
 A> who just follow the croud.  I have *NEVER* seen an IBM owner offer
 A> truthful facts in an argument against Amigas.  Its either lies
 A> (stretched
 A> truths mostly) or plain insults.  They just don't listen to anything
 A> rational/sensible you have to say.  There are many people I know who
 A> have
 A> also derived this same conclusion independantly.  They'll back me up.
 A> Anyway, I'm so used to their behaviour that when I see something *SO*
 A> rediculious and off-the-mark as that, I lash out - and it usually
 A> works. ;-)

  I went that route. I went that route.. let me say again.. I went that
route. I had an Amiga. I sold it.. thought IBM was the way. Met someone who
turned me on to some fun things on the Amiga like Euro-Demos and DPaint..
looked around with the IBM for Paint programs and DTPs.. didn't have one I
could afford. Bought Amiga 500 (while owning the Beamer).. bought DPaint
and PageStream. Now that's all I use. Eventually stopped using the Beamer
and sold it to someone for $400.

  Sorry, I just got bored with the IBM. Oh sure there were a lot of BBSs
with files... but they weren't fun to me. I never ran across a good
PD/shareware game. I got tired of GIFs.. and I didn't have $400 for
PageMaker. 

  Right now, I have a computer with 9 megs of fully accessible ram, two
drives.. pagestream and various other programs. I have fun with this bloody
machine.

  So all you Mac and IBM users can flame me all I want. I am having fun
with this computer and I don't feel abandoned.
 
  Geez.. you would think that since I am satisfied it would be enough.. but
NO!


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

  /-----  /\     /\    /      Fandom Activity Network Magazine
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/       /    \ /    \/             Editor : Mike Whalen
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: PC Prices, Reality Check (was Re: switching to IBM)
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:51:57 GMT

In article <57513@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.114529.29782@nic.unh.edu>
>pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>
>|  [...]
>|  That's true, but to be fair I also think some of the people on the PC
>|  side tend to quote only the absolute lowest prices from noname clone
>|  dealers.  I try to stick with the more reputable mail-order houses
>|  when doing comparisons.
>
>Precisely.
>
>That's why PS "SCSI" sucks dead bunnies through a straw.  Most PC "SCSI" cards
>are just a few chips and have no intelligence.  [ Of course, one could get one
>of the Adaptec 154x cards, but PC users are cheap shits who shop price and not
>quality ]
>
>PC computers suck.

Hang on there.  You are totally misinterpreting what I said.  All I
said what that the good clones are somewhat more expensive than the
bottom end - a few hundred dollars depending on what options you want.
(Companies like Dell, Compaq, etc. not included).

As for your insults about PC users, I can't claim responsibility for
other users' actions.  Only my own.  

>This fact came home recently (in another newsgroup) when some DEC person claime
>d
>DEC's "Pathworks" was 100% VT100 compatible.
>
>Sure (heavy sarcasm).  Wouldn't pass the Per Lindberg VT100 validation suite.
>Yeah, DEC, cannot even emulate their own damn terminals.
>
>Couldn't even do the double-high/-wide characters.  Why?  "Because it would
>force us to go into graphics mode to draw the characters, and it would be too
>slow."  Yeah, sure, on a '486.

Bashing an entire computer platform based on a single piece of bad
software (assuming that's what Pathworks is) is not particularly
logical, nor fair.

There's no reason why you can't run a terminal emulator in graphics
mode, though the programming is obviously going to be a bit more
complex if you're working from text mode.  This is just plain
nonsense.  MS-Kermit 3.1 does graphics for Tek emulation, and it's
just as fast as text.  It isn't even a commercial program.  Sounds
more like an excuse for poor programming on DEC's part.

Paul
-- 
Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire
From: har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Jerry "knows" 486's faster than 68040.
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:56:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux.1992Apr8.215636.5296
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <mbs.0f14@adastra.cvl.va.us> adastra!mbs@Virginia.Edu writes:
>>All this proves is that compilers on Amigas suck, which means their
>>applications will suck. And the OS sucks, so do not say anything more about
>>how great your OS is, because you just claimed that it sucks.

>And you just proved that you have no idea what the word "logic" means.

Amazing, innit he? I've tried to talk to him in mail - if anything, he
becomes less coherent. "Your claim that the amiga is the next generation
supercomputer is just your opinion so i won't talk about it but it remains
true that the ibm blows the amiga out of the water, which goes without
saying." Sheesh.

>Go read an IBM or Mac newsgroup. Please.

Nah. Go read talk.bizarre. I think he'd fit in well.

>  //   Michael B. Smith
>\X/    ...!uunet!virginia!adastra!mbs

-s
-- 
Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
"I love using MS-DOS - waiting for the machine gives me so much free time!"
har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Graphics boards
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:20:04 GMT

gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>I have to go with what is available.  The DMI Resolver is the closest thing
>that the Amiga has to SVGA.  Actually, that is not quite true.  The SVGA
>cards for Intel machines will also work in the A2000--with the Bridgeboard,
>of course.
>

Fine, but then we should equip our PC with a TIGA graphics card for a fair
comparison, right?

>-- Gerald
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Powerbook problems?
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:00:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I'm not a fan of Apple's, but to claim negligence in this case?

If you drop an Amiga on your toe, can you sue CBM for making a toe
breaking computer? 

Don't give lawyers any more encouragement. PLEASE!

TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
sun!portal!cup.Portal.com!Tomk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: aissmith@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Doug Smith)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date:  7 Apr 92 02:09:00 GMT

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:

>aissmith@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Doug Smith) writes:
>>
>>You're full of shit, Nishith.
>>[...]
>>Admittedly I don't run a 16 colour workbench, but I have *NO* noticable delay
>>on graphics when downloading.  Seeing as this mysterious person you speak of
>>[...]

>Cool off Doug.  You've jumped in late on a discussion that began weeks ago.
>Nishith did not make up the original person or posting.

But he's still full of shit.  He (and you, and anyone else) can't expect
to come in here and spurt-forth absolute rubbish about Amiga's and not get a
bashing from those who know better?  He deserved it.  And what's worse was
that he expressed himself in a very matter-a-fact way, giving an opinion
that he was right and the rest of the world (Amiga owners who know aout both
IBM & Amigas) was wrong.

See ya,
Doug.

PS: I was only just warming up with my reply to Nish - FLAME ON!!!!!!

>kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486 and nap42487 knows nothing about CPUs.
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:26:33 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <1992Apr13.152041.13375@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:
>>
>>  Let's just face the fact (my personal opinion) that the Intel
>>instruction set sucks, its kludgy, modal, limited in registers, not
>>orthogonal. Its a real bitch to program in assembly compared to Motorola.

I back this.

>I disagree.  Why don't you stop throwing around the word "kludge", since
>you obviously don't know what it means.  

I think everyone around here knows what this is :-), mostly from own
experience.

>Geez, according to Amigoids,
>everything non-Motorola and non-Amiga is a "kludge".  
                             ^^^^^^^^^
Nah. In this respect we feel very common with the folks from Apple, HP,
old Sun, ... It's really an experience. When you ever have programmed
Intel and Motorola (or MOS) processors both in assembler and don't get
this strong impression, then you must come from another planet.

>As far as the
>instruction set goes, I maintain that it's different, not worse.  Ortho-
>gonality isn't everything.

Oh, it's *MUCH*. Look, for you as a programmer, you simply have to
*learn* far fewer commands and their specialities on an orthogonal
processor: you learn once the available addressing modes and once the
available commands, and you need not care for additional thoughts
about what registers go for which command. Ok, also the 68k processors
are not 100 % orthogonal, but their approach comes *very* close.
Yes, I state that Intel processors are really clumsy to program after
my experience.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: jyoung@isis.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 06:41:34 GMT

So many people are arguing but do not HELP the guy who had a A3000
WITH a 68040 and with 16 color WB still loosing characters with modem!
Thats why people go over to other machines because you can spend
$5000 and still hvae this happen.  Commodore strong in Europe but
that do not help US!!  If you take look at INFO, more ads for GAMES
but what happened to Fusion 40 ads and Montgomery ads??? INFO have
more ads for ITSELF!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Apple "Loses" Look-and-Feel Lawsuit
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:09:44 GMT

In article <kdarling.703379568@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>U.S. District Court Judge Walker today dismissed most of the $5 billion,
>four-year-old, Apple lawsuit against Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard over
>alleged Mac "look and feel" copying by MS Windows 2.03 and HP's NewWave.

Finally, there's hope for an end to all the legal nonsense. Are you sure
about this?

[ ]

philip
philip@utstat.toronto.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Subject: Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:00:52 GMT

s915426@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Leanne Taylor) writes:

>Long live the A3000 (And whatever comes next :) )!

Don't keep your hopes up.
!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re:  Considering switching to IBM
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:11:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Apr13.152556.13460@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>dac@dacami.UUCP (David Culberson) writes:
>>  You took his post ouut of context.  Not a wise move.  He said  "...you
>>can't use several programs that run in V8086 mode together."  What he
>>meant was there aare *some* programs that will not run together in V8086
>>modes.  Not that you can't run more than one program together under V8086
>>mode.
>>
>
>I don't think that's what he meant at all, and I stand by my comments.
>Whatever he meant, it was obvious that he had no idea what he was babbling
>about.

Well, you're wrong, and you're wrong.

Simple as that.

I was not addressing what you could do under OS/2 in any way.  Given
the relatively small number of users (compared to MSDOS) it is
irrelevant to what I was commenting about.

A comment was made that the programs I mentioned as examples of
V8086-mode-using software that won't work together (TD386 and EMM386)
were OS-level software.  I ask you: is this an excuse?  I say no...

Please _do_ try to keep your response to this, if any, in context with
the discussion.

-- 
---------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.netcom.com---------------
           "We're not hitchhiking anymore.  We're riding!" -- Ren