HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobt@pogo.wv.tek.com (Bob Tidrick)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: engine experimenr
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:44:43 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <dy8tc==@rpi.edu> vehlor@vccnorthe.its.rpi.edu (Richard Edward Vehlow) writes:

>I'm somewhat insane, but my floormate is even more foolhardy! Here's what 
>happened:


>2. Firing an engine straight into a toilet bowl.
>3. Pump - action rocket launcher, kinda like a shotgun, where I can pump a
>magazine of engines one by one into the launch chamber and fire, at a rate of

Would someone like to foward this to this fool's Dean? This guy is a dangerious
pyromaniac. He is going to destroy some property and possibly hurt someone.
For your information Mr. Vehlow what you are doing could verywell windup
getting you in trouble for arson should you end up burning something or someone.
It's people like you who will ruin a great hobby for all of us by giving it a
bad name and possibly making it harder if not impossible for us to get the
engines we need to persue our sport.
                Get a life and wise up!
-- 
                                                Bob Tidrick
                                                GPID Engineering
                                                Tektronix Inc.
                                                Wilsonville OR.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: Re: Fuse
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:43:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.002136.28387@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
>
>In a previous article, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) says:
>
>>In article <1992Apr9.174440.8385@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
>>> Why is it that rocket companies like Estes don't promote fuse as a way to
>

LOTS OF STUFF DELETED.........

>
>
>I'm glad some people still have a vivid imagination.First of all,if I have a
>misfire I don't go stick my head directly over the rod like an ass and say "
>Hey light it again and let me see if it works this time!".
>If a little kid does go near it,you can do something called yelling also.
>When you launch a rocket,you should anchor the pad using coat hanger hooks to
>stick it in the ground with so the wind couldn't knock the pad over.
>Also,if it's illegal,why do they sell it in hobby stores all over cleveland?

Sorry, CD has a point here.  In the past 18 months I have seen more than one
potential accident averted because the person launching the model could STOP
the launch sequence (ie. electrical ignition).  I think you will find that
thermalite is available for rocketeers to use in the construction of igniters.

Fly um safely!

Bob
-- 

Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
From: hughes@gary.enet.dec.com (Gary Hughes - VMS Development)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Vashon and Cold Power
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:37:25 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <2054@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes...
>These rockets were severely underpowered.  I once considered using one
>to build a Super Scale Redeye Missile (solves two problems: burning off
>the fold-in fins, and burning off your face when it clears the bazooka)
>but they were too underpowered.

The real Vashon motors, the V-1 and V-2, were a B9 and C9 respectively. The
Estes ColdPower motor was something like an A3 with the same propellant load as
the V-1. The Vashon motors would perform ok if you were careful, but the
ColdPower motor brought new meaning to the term 'underpowered' (as in, you
could get better performance if you left out the propellant and threw the thing
by hand...)

You probably could find an alternative to the Freon-12 that they used. Is there
an alternative for car airconditioners? If so, it may work.

> 
>> Estes marketed some RP-100-based rocket cars one year.  Did anyone every buy
>> one?
> 
>Saw a lot of them run at NARAM-16.  If you ran them on a string, they
>worked most of the time.  If you didn't, they went into positive-feedback
>bouncy-bouncy mode and ended up on their backs spewing out all their gas.
>This despite the fact that their tires were totally light sponge.

That was the Vashon J-33 engine, also used in some hand launched gliders. It
was sort the cold equivalent of a Jetex 50 engine.

As for the cars, well they would not stand up to a B14...

gary
From: coryc@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Calvin ?
Keywords: calvin
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:04:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr13.230453.12275
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <3128@key.COM> tim@maple_leaf.key.amdahl.com writes:
>
>Can someone please post more information about calvin?
>
>- such as the full net address?
>- is calvin an ftp site?
>- what type of information is available, if any?

I made the unfounded assumption that Calvin was calvin.nmsu.edu 
(IP: 128.123.35.150).  But as I mentioned in my previous posting, this
site's ftp capacity has been turned off indefinitely.  The reason given,
dated February 17, is as follows:

>		      Attention
>
>This ftp site will be inoperable for an unknown length of
>time due to problems with machine reliablitity and logical
>damage to the archive media.
>
>If you have any questions, please mail them to 
>eoshaugh@nmsu.edu.
>
>Thank you.

Email to the login given bounced, so I'm not sure what recourse there
is.

-coryc
-- 

|    >> Disclaimer: I speak for Sequent only in our hardware manuals <<       |
|Cory R. Carpenter, Tech Writer |"I wish that I could go where no man has gone|
|Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. | before, but I'll probably stay in Aurora."  |
|    coryc@sequent.com          |                --Garth from "Wayne's World" |
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Prices
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:02:19 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr15.191516.6621@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>, buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
> IMHO, Jack is right about price gouging.  I understand that Estes buys its
> body tubes rather than make them.

There's a good story here.  Back at the 1980 World Championships in NJ,
Dane Boles (then) from Estes put on a slide show for the international
participants, showing the plant, the production, the engine machines, etc.
On one slide he showed body tubes and said, "Estes buys $X-million of
body tubes per year from an outside contractor.  They arrive in six-foot
lengths and we cut them to size ourselves for the various kits."  The
entire room went dead silent.  Dane, realizing his gaff, said, "No, no,
we won't sell them in six-foot lengths!"

> I welcome Quest into the market.  Estes has had the market too long to itself.
> Estes' past SOP was to raise prices to keep sales constant whenever total volume
> dropped, due to recession or whatever.  Nothing like a little good ol' 
> competition to knock some sense into a complacent company.  I hope Quest does
> REAL good!

Well, there sure was some real terror in Penrose when Quest started up,
which indicates that there's probably a lot of truth in this version of
market realities.  Estes is getting aggressive, all right, but it's an
incredibly reactive aggression -- in addition to trying to improve the
quality of their product line, they're busy striking out hard at anything
that moves anywhere near their territory.  Bully tactics don't sit well
with me.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Suitable motor for model
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:01:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr6.150303.27680@news.larc.nasa.gov>, ray@nmsb.larc.nasa.gov writes:
> I have a rocket that I would like to launch, but, it is quite old.
> The model is the "Photon Disruptor" that Estes put out quite a few years
> ago.  Unfortunately, I no longer have a list of the recommended motors
> for it.  Is there anyone out there that could look in an old catalog
> or may know what the recommended motors are for this model?
> 
> E-mail would probably be more suitable since this has limited appeal.

Not at work, I don't, BUT --

Just find a model of roughly the same length, diameter, and weight
(of the three, the length is least important) in the current catalog,
and use those engines.  (Make sure the engine tubes are the same
diameter, of course.)

OR --

Look at the engine chart under "Recommended Lift-Off Weight" and use
any of the engines that match.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: HP
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 20:41:40 GMT



If you have the number of a company from whom I can get High power engines
please leave me mail/
Thanks
Rob
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: engine experimenr
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:18:38 GMT

...<pranks of questionable sanity deleted>...
>
>Now how many violations of NAR/laws/fire codes can you see above? What else
>was aberrational? Don't bother flaming- the only flames that will affect me
>are from the rocket engines we set off!!!

Guys, we have enough trouble keeping what rocket priviledges we have for the
responsible intended use of rocket motors.  When your actions cause some
fire marshall to pull the plug for everyone in the area, what are you going
to tell everyone else?  Just look sheepish and say "sorry" because it isn't
any sweat off your back?

You don't sound like you care a damm about the rest of us and that's sad.

Jim
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:03:33 GMT
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept

In article <1992Apr10.194455.25435@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
|> I highly doubt a wind could break my steel launch rod.If it's a tornado you 
|> shouldn't launch anyway.

OK.  How about your launch lug?  I've seen more than 1 break free from a 
model, especially larger models which use 1/8" rods.  I've also seen
adjustable rods fall over when they wern't quite tightened down...

The bottom line to all this discussion is that the NFPA, NAR and most
state and local fire codes ban the use of fuse as a primary ignition
system for model rockets.  Trying to justify its use by saying that you are
careful enough that you don't need to follow the law is not sufficient excuse,
IMHO.  When I was a teeenager I used Jetex fuse to light a few rockets when
my 6V batteries were dead.  I eventually decided that I was going to follow
the safety guidelines of the organization to which I belonged (the NAR) and
not use fuse anymore.  I have used commercial igniters ever since and I don't
have much of a failure rate (1 failure in 15 - 20 launches...others do better
than I do).  Buying an extra pack of igniters does cost a little extra, but
they last a long time since AT LEAST 1 igniter comes with every engine.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR# 13559
============================================================================
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: r.m.r FAQ list
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:06:09 GMT
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

I sent the following to Buzz but it bounced. While editing it to
try again I realized that this might be a good starting point for
a group discussion on what should go into the FAQ.

- Jack
======================================

In article <1992Apr10.175024.10960@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> you write:

>Ok, the fool has gone and volunteered.  Any takers?

Great idea, Buzz, and long overdue.

How about the following loose format:

I) Organizations:
	
	1) NAR
	2) Tripoli
	3) Major NAR chapters/Tripoli prefects near large 
	    population centers

II) Manufacturers:

	Mike Junclas's quasi monthly posting takes care of this,
	perhaps in overkill, but a summary of the major players
	would be nice.

III) Other sources:

	1) A pointer to Joe Pfeiffer's Calvin archives
	2) Other sources of scale model data
	3) A list of computer software available both on Calvin
	   and from the original authors (e.g. Larry Curcio)

IV) Safety:

	1) Why you shouldn't "roll your own"
	2) Range safety concerns (the current thread on electrical 
	    ignitors vs. fuse is a good example of what could go here).
	3) Basic stability checks and how to do a "string test".

V) Construction Basics:

	1) Adhesive types (white glue/wood glue/epoxy pros and cons)
	2) Fillers and sealers
	3) Paints and other finishes (e.g. Monokote)

VI) Design Basics:

	1) How "normal" staging works
	2) Flashbulb and other long distance staging techniques
	3) Different recovery systems (i.e. other than the "ejection
	   charge" activated types such as timer and RC)
	4) Advanced design topics (e.g. how to calculate CG and CP)

These are what come to mind off the top of my head. They come from 
reading r.m.r for the past three years and noticing what topics
keep coming up.

Good Luck!

- Jack
---
=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||"While your brains may not be so large to look at as those of the Scare- ||
||crow, you are really brighter than he is -- when you are well polished." ||
||    -- Glinda to the Tin Woodman, original edition                       ||
=============================================================================
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: I may change from fuse
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:53:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr13.005309.8628
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


Also for all of you insightful lawyers out there who have given me hell
through email about wanting to join the NAR wen I stated openly that I used
fuse I pose this question...

Have you ever driven over 55 on a highway?Over 25 in a resdiential area?
The answer is a resounding YES.
We don't tell you to leave the USA do we?So who the hell ar you to tell me
what I can and cannot do.
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: energy required to ignite engines
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:27:52 GMT
Reply-To: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design, Oakland

In article <1992Apr9.184902.23182@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
>However, I have had both electric matches and flashbulbs set off by
>static charges. The currents here have to be very low.

see my other post about this, I think that either of them need a relatively
high current but for a VERY short time - a static charge can be a very
high current - but for a very short time.

One thing I didn't show on yesterday's circuit are the shorting plugs that
go across the ignitors while you are setting up and the A/D sensor that
the CPU uses to detect unsafe situations (by monitoring the voltage at
the resistor to look for current leaks)

	Paul
-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
It's not as well known that 3 days before George Bush puked in the Japanese
Prime Minister's lap our great statesman and diplomat accidently gave the
finger to a whole nation ....
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo)
Subject: Re: Old Estes Catalogs
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:03:35 GMT

In article <451@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>In article <3436@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>>I've been paging through my old Estes and Centuri catalogs.  Remember when you
>>could buy a complete kit for $1.50?  The Saturn V model was $16.95.  Estes
>>prices nowadays are unnerving...
>
>You must have a "new" old catalog :-)  My 1967 version shows the loss 
>leader "Streak" kit at $0.50 and the newly introduced Saturn 1B at $9.50! 
>Even at that it was more than twice as expensive than the next most expensive
>kit, the Gemini-Titan at $4.00. The S1B, BTW, was bigger and more complex 
>a kit that the later SV.
>
************
Somehow I don't feel as old anymore 8-).  I remember starting to fly model
rockets in 1970.

What's really amazing is that I kept those Model Rocket Flight Data
Sheets that Estes and Centuri sold to log your flights on.  I think
one of these days I should enter certain data into a computer and find out
what was the average number of flights my models had before subcuming to
the dreaded "plantest eatum sugcaness" plant. 

This is also a good time to explain 
that I grew up on the island of Kauai (in the state of Hawaii), our house
had a pretty big yard plus to the north there was a sugar cane field,
to the south a row of trees, a highway (2-lane, with cars traveling at
50 mph most of the time) and another sugar cane field.  Our yard is about
400 to 500 feet east to west and 50 to 70 feet north to south, with the
house in the middle.  Basically great place to shoot off 1/4A engine
stuff on a calm day (with no chute, steamer or tumble only) when the
cane fields were at it's tallest (around 5 to 6 feet or so).

Sugar cane gets haversted every 18 months or so and between the harvest
period and when it grows to about a foot, it's time to break out
the B and C engines.  I also flew a D-engine Goblin from my place and
was able to recover the model (having a long red streamer help too).

Oh, while writing this note I opened up a box that's been sitting in
my apartment for years which held the above mention flight data
sheets (covering a period from 1970 to 1976) plus an Estes 1975
and 1979 catalog and a Centuri 1972 catalog).  Also the I had
an acordain file where I kept the plans to the models I built (with
luck maybe the fins templates are there too).


--
Honolulu Community College            cs_rapozo@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu
874 Dillingham Blvd.                  helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu
Honolulu, HI 96817                    rapozo@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Ph#: (808) 845-9202
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Vashon and Cold Power
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:07:35 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

Anyone remember the old Vashon rockets?  The "liquid fuel" Valkyrie 1 & 2
rockets made of metal with the RP-100 propellant?  I know Estes bought them
out and carried some of their stuff as "cold power" rockets.  I recall that
RP-100 was diflourodichloromethane, and probably not good for the ozone
layer, among other things, but I'm curious to know what experiences people
had with these rockets from the dawn of the model rocket industry.  Also,
could such rockets be flown wit something a bit more environmentally friendly
than diflourodichloromethane?

Estes marketed some RP-100-based rocket cars one year.  Did anyone every buy
one?

I've been paging through my old Estes and Centuri catalogs.  Remember when you
could buy a complete kit for $1.50?  The Saturn V model was $16.95.  Estes
prices nowadays are unnerving...

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: More info
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:01:21 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <2156@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>You can't buy HP engines (G's and over) without NAR or Tripoli
>certification.  I don't know about local stores in Cleveland, sorry.

According to my North Coast Rocketry catalog, you don't need any permit for
a 'G' engine.  Only H and higher.  They resell Aerotech.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".
From: jh709982@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (jason hevelone)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:53:51 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College


    The arguement for using fuses vs. ignitors has me convinced.
Where can you buy these fuses at.

			 Thanks
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Question About Old Kits
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:12:00 GMT
Keywords: Orbital Transport, Scissor-Wing Transport

In article <1992Apr1.213357.14083@ennews.eas.asu.edu> elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
>Like a number of people, I once had model rocketry as a hobby (about
>20 years ago) and slowly lost interest.  Now that I have 2 sons, I've
>been introducing them to the hobby and enjoying it myself once again.  Two
>kits I enjoyed building and flying from days gone by were the Estes
>Orbital Transport and the Scissor-Wing Transport (I think those are the
>correct names).  From the current Estes catalog, I see they are no longer
>produced.  

	This isn't a comment directly on your quest for the Scissor-
Wing Transport (SWT, for short), but is connected tangentially....

	At our club's (Compaq MRC, NW Houston) last Saturday, we had
a member who brought his SWT out of mothballs.  The paper hinges had
deteriorated over the past (ten?  fifteen?) years, and he had replaced
them with the hinge tape used for RC airplanes.  There was some slight
crumpling of the body tube an inch from the front, but otherwise it
looked great!  

	He launched the SWT, and it popped the motor mount perfectly
at apogee (took me a minute to figure out what that thing was), and 
the plane began to glide back _wonderously_.  It was the kind of 
launch that leaves everyone laughing and smiling.  The plane even-
tually descended and touched down a couple feet from the edge of a 
road, slid and bumped up against the curb 25 yards from us.  As
Mark was bringing the SWT back to the launch site, the wing fell
off!  I couldn't believe it had held up through the ejection!



thomas rush				uunet!cpqhou!thomasr
compaq computer corporation		their employee,
deep in the hearth of texas		not their opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets