HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews and the Black death (was Re: What is chalitza?)
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:50:07 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel) writes:

>In <1992Sep25.121047.14622@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>I have heard that Jews did not suffer as much from the Black death - in
>>proportion to population - because of a side effect of the same gene that
>>causes Tay Sachs disease.  That is, a population prone to the TS genetic
>>effect is also prone to immunity from Black Death.

>>Can any of the net.geneticists say something about this or is it just a
>>JEL (Jewish Urban Legend)?
>>-- 
>>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

>I don't have the data in front of me, but my impression is that the TS
>mutation appeared considerably later than 1349.  And in order to affect
>mortality much it would have to be present in a large fraction of the
>population, whereas in fact it's on the order of 1%.

It's my understanding that the protective effects of the TS mutation occur
when the individual is heterozygous (a carrier), in a manner analogous to
the protective effects of a sickle-cell anemia mutation for malaria. 
Ashkenazi Jewish carriers occur at a frequency much higher than 1%, 
although I can't remember the exact figure.

>-- 
>Robert Israel                            israel@math.ubc.ca
>Department of Mathematics             or israel@unixg.ubc.ca
>University of British Columbia
>Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Y4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:55:06 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>The Jewish concept of "mitzvah" (commandment) can be divided in various
>ways.  The two most comonly considered are do's vs don't and "those
>between man and man" vs "those between man and G-d."  Focussing on man-man
>vs man-G-d, Yom Kippur is "effective" only to gain forgiveness of those
>sins commited against G-d.  Only the offended person can forgive those
>sins a person commits against another person.  One of the beautiful things
>about Yom Kippur is that while we are busy repenting for our man-G-d sins,
>we are mindful of the need to ask forgiveness of our man-man sins and are
>more likely to take care of both.

What is the Reform approach on this?  Assuming that their "ritual" mitvot
correspond to the those between man and G-d, and that they are not really
obligated to observe these mitzvot, I must ask why they do anything on
Yom Kippur.  It doesn't absolve them of the man-man transgressions, and
the man-G-d transgressions are not transgressions.

I imagine that they would bristle at the converse, namely that Yom Kippur
does indeed cover the man-man transgressions.  That would imply one could
completely forego the victim as forgiver. 

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalia
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish,world
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 13:48:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.064901.589@vms.huji.ac.il>, backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
|> Apropos TZOM GEDALIAH, there's a classic joke about the rabbi who finds one of
|> his congregants eating on TZOM GEDALIAH. He tells the rabbi that he has three
|> reasons why he  ate on the fast day:
|> 
|> 1) Gedaliah would have died anyway;
|> 2) If I would have been killed, would Gedaliah have fasted for me ?
|> 3) I don't fast on Yom Kippur, I should fast on Tzom Gedaliah ???  :-)

To those "baal habatish" reasons, I add the following "lomdish" one:

If you look in most siddurim, under the Avinu Malkainu prayer, there are two
versions of some of the verses.  One set is under the heading "On Fast Days" 
and the other is under the heading "Between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur".
This proves conclusively that there ARE NO FAST DAYS between Rosh Hashanah and
Yom Kippur.  Hence, Tzom Gedaliah must not be a fast day.
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's Flames
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Subject: Halacha of sex change
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:47:48 GMT

I heard of (a real case) a Jewish gal that converted into a lad (you know:
hormones, some cut-and-paste job ...) and is engaged (as a man) to another
woman.
  I wondered about the Halachaic side of this; for example, what would a
Rabbi say if the above two would now ask to become married ?

-- Boaz

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          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@crl.dec.com>           Home: (617) 494-1279  <boaz@mit.edu>
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Tilting the Mezuzah (was: On Orthodox Monopoly (was can of worms...))
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 16:28:19 GMT

In article <ALLEN.92Sep24084157@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>In article <1992Sep22.184107.385@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> [I write]:
>
>   In article <ALLEN.92Sep18080626@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>   >In article <9209161904.AA23509@ptms_dev.sbi.com>
>   >gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler) writes:
>   >[...]
>   >   ways.  And the reason we tilt the mezuza is to fulfill two different
>   >   shitot: horizontal and vertical.  [I don't exactly understand how this
>   >   one fulfills EITHER shita.]  And they say we don't compromise!
>   >[...]
>   >Actually, I have learned that this compromise (tilting a Mezuzah) is
>   >unique.  We usually line up all the arguments on both sides and then
>   >follow one way or the other.  We compromise here (and only here?) to
>   >show how extremely important Shalom Bayit is.
>
>   How about the fact that we say Sim Shalom in the morning tefillah and
>   Shalom Rav in the evening?
>
>According to the commentary in the Art Scroll Siddur, we only say Sim
>Shalom when the Ba'al T'fillah would say the Bircat Cohanim
>(Three-fold Blessing).  That is why, in fact, we say Sim Shalom on
>fast days.

Agreed.

But isn't it true that, in ancient days, there was a disagreement as to
whether Sim Shalom or Shalom Rav should be part of the Amida, and that
the current arrangement of the siddur in which one or the other is used
depending on given rules, is a "compromise"?

-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Date: 4 Oct 92 11:32:20 GMT
Organization: Math & CS, BarIlan U, Ramat-Gan, Israel

Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL
Keywords:

In article <qjdkd1c@zola.esd.sgi.com> amber@sgi.com writes:

>I thought it also had to do with mourning the loss of loved
>ones and others who have died.
>

There is a late custom to say a  mourning prayer , But this is far
from being an integral part of the yom kipur prayer.
Even those object saying sucha prayer on holidays ( a specialy on the
1st Holiday day ) say it is loud on Yom kipur because it helps people
realizing that our lives are not for ever.

Shalom   Gideon
From: jjmorris@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Joyce Morris)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: using vacation days for Jewish holidays
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:42:03 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I always resented having to take vacation days since I did not have
a choice as to whether or not to take the Christian holidays.  Even
if I worked on those days I did not get to take off other days in
exchange.  The fairest policy under which I ever worked was one which
gave me 10 personal holidays per year and no holidays.  These were in
addition to vacation.  The university I was working for actually
instituted this policy so that they would not have to pay the hospital
workers and security personnel overtime on Christmas, etc.  However,
they found that it was well received by the rest of the university
because everyone could take their own religious/non-religous holidays.

Many public school teachers have to take sick days since they do not get
vacation days [the summer for which they do not get paid is their vacaction
according to the administration and much of the public].  This puts them
in a moral dilemna with which all that I know are very uncomfortable -
they either have to lie and say that they are sick or they have to lose
pay.
From: de@moscom.com (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tribe descent
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:30:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford NY

In article <1992Oct1.174236.2755@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>Among orthodox Jews, the answer is clearly: Through the father.
>In practice, with a very few exceptions, whether someone is a
>Kohen or Levite or Israelite has meaning only for men.  The sequence
>of aliyot for reading the Torah, among orthodox Jews, applies only
>to men; Birchat Hakohen - priestly blessing - applies to men only, 
>and only a male Kohen can act to redeem a pidyon haben.

Now this opens an interesting question.

If I understood correctly, ten women, by themselves form an minyan, and can
behave like a minyan, reading Torah, repeating Shmona Esreh, etc.

When they read Torah, do they use Kohen, Levi, etc.?

Gmar Tov.
-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:25:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.152040.14175@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

 (re potential intermarriage ... with stuff deleted ...)

>I am sure that the basis for all the Jewish tradition is no more than the
>search for happiness. So, be it.

"The search for happiness" is the basis for all Jewish tradition?  That
is most certainly not the Orthodox basis.  Nor, to the best of my 
understanding, would advocates of Conservative, Reform, or Reconstructionist
movements agree.  As a matter of fact, I'm not sure if the search for
happiness plays a role in _any_ Western theology.

I would suggest that happiness plays a role in Judaism only to the 
extent that a Jew observing G-d's law to the best of his/her ability
may feel "happy" about his/her attempts.  And, especially at this time
of year, those of use who are serious about Jewish practices probably
should feel somewhat unhappy (or, more correctly, dissatisfied) about
how well we have fulfilled what G-d demands of us.




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:54:07 GMT

David Charlap writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:

>>If you want to believe that the self-styled preacher Joshua, or
>>Shabbatei whatever, or Mohammed, or any of the hundreds or thousands
>>of other people who have lived or are living on this planet who have
>>claimed they were the Messiah, is in fact so, go ahead, but what does
>>it have to do with Judaism?
>
>Just to head off some responses, Muhammed never claimed to be a
>messiah.  Islam believes him to be the last and greatest prophet, but
>he was no messiah.
>
>By that same token, nobody considers Buddah of Confucious to be
>messiahs, either.  They are considered great thinkers by their
>followers.
>
>Finally, I don't think that John Hiatt claimed that Judaism believes
>in Jesus.  He just wanted to know why Jews don't think so.  Give
>people the benefit of the doubt, OK?

OK, then I'll make the answer really simple-

	Jews don't believe that Mohammed was a great prophet and follow
	his teachings because if we did, we'd be Moslems and not Jews.

	Jews don't follow the teachings of Buddha because if we did,
	we'd be Buddhists and not Jews.

	Jews don't observe the rites of the Shinto religion because if we
	did, we'd be observing Shintoism and not Judaism.

	Jews don't believe that Yeshua ben Yosef was the Messiah because
	if we did,  we'd be observing Christianity and not Judaism.

In other words, asking Jews why they don't believe Jesus to be the
Messiah is as ludicrous as asking us why we don't follow the teachings
of Buddha.  Either belief has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Handicappers on El Al
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:23:53 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:


>I have a friend who is confined to a wheelchair.  I am trying to convince
>him to come to Israel with me in either December or during the summer.

>There are two problems (as he explains it):
    (... space saved ...)
    Come on. I answer at large because other readers may want to hear.
    Gedaliah, do you really believe that Israel's NATIONAL airline, the one
    that continues to fly for us when we are at war, the one which all of us
    consider as OURS in these terrible days when one of OUR planes has 
    unfortunately crashed over innocents, do you believe that THIS airline  
    and its national airport cannot handle wheelchair passengers such as
    too many of our vets?
    At the Ben Gurion (Tel Aviv) airport there are special cars with a
    raising platform that will take the wheelchair passenger on the ground
    floor at checkin and carefully carry the passenger way to the seat in the
    airplane (through a door opposite to the one used for boarding in general).
    To make access to toilets easier, a business class ticket would greatly
    help, but please believe that crews who have demonstrated, not so long ago,
    that they could handle baby deliveries on unscheduled Ethiopia-BenGurion
    flights, will have no problem and feel great honor in helping your friend,
    just as any other passenger.
    Really, I do believe that the only "problem" is with paying the extra
    business class fare.
    In any case, had you tried asking El-Al to begin with?

    Gmar Hatima Tova - Yaaqov Goldberg, satisfied customer flying El-Al EVEN
    when alternatives have not logged off for a while.
From: pinkas@skywalker.intel.com (Israel Pinkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: One day R"H (was Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays)
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:10:56 GMT
Organization: Software Technologies, INTeL Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

[I am not Reform, but I wanted to clarify the issues here.]

ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:

> One of the Major Mitzvot concerning Rosh Hashana is to Hear the
> sound of the Shofar.  In order to assure that the Shofar can be
> sounded each year, even when the First day of Tishri falls on Shabbat,
> It was ordained that Rosh Hashana be celebrated for TWO days.

The observance of the second day of R"H has nothing to do with the Shofar.

In the time of the Beit HaMikdash (the Temple in Jerusalem), the shofar
would be sounded on Shabbat.  The prohibition of sounding the shofar on
Shabbat is a later rabbinical decree.  The rabbis were worried about the
shofar being carried between domains, and that one might repair a minor
defect in the shofar like smoothing a rough spot on the mouthpiece (Makeh
B'Patish - Putting the final touch on an object).

The reasons given for the second day of R"H are:

(a) It was difficult to publicize R"H in Israel in one day.  The second day
    was instituted so that people would be observing the holiday no matter
    which day it is.

(b) Up until the times of the Mishnah, the practice was to assume that the
    30th day of Elul was the first day of R"H.  If witnesses to the new
    moon had not arrived by the time of the afternoon sacrifice, the day
    would be declared as the 30th day of Elul, the next day would be the
    first of Tishrei, and the weekday sacrifice would be performed.

    One year [the Mishnah relates], the witnesses showed up after the day
    had been declared as the 30th of Elul.  As a result, the rabbis decreed
    that when the witnesses failed to show up, the R"H sacrifice should be
    performed in the afternoon anyway.

    Since we no longer have a Sanhedrin to accept testimony from witnesses,
    there is no one to declare the 30th day of Elul as the first day of
    R"H.  When our current calendar was established, this was built in to
    the calendar.  Our Elul always has 29 days.  The 30th day is always
    R"H.

> What do Reform Jews do when 1 Tishri is on Shabbat, and the sounding
> of the Shofar is not permitted?

Reform Judaism has relegated the ancient rabbinical decrees as being
ancient - not valid in our time.  As a result, there is no reason for the
not to blow the shofar.

-Israel
--
Israel Pinkas		pinkas@stps18.intel.com		408-765-4210

	"Everybody's askaird of death, until it hits you ...
	 then you don't care"		-Archie Bunker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tay-Sachs
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:51:22 GMT

On Sun, 27 Sep 1992 gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu wrote:

> 
> I read somewhere that there are two distinct groups that are affected
> by Tay-Sachs.  Jews of Ashkenazi descent and French Canadians (usually in
> Quebec) are the groups.  I'm not making this up at all.  If anybody has
> any info on the subject, please share it.  Are these two versions of the
> same disease or what?  Also, how can a person be tested to see if he/she
> is a Tay-Sachs carrier?

all my textbooks that would have a lot of info on tay sachs are out on loan
right now. but i think the testing is done by western blotting. blood cells
from the person would be taken and thier dna chopped up by various enzymes,
and run on a gel that will separate the dna fragments by size. then a small
piece of radioctive dna would be bound to the dna and depending on the size
of the oiece it binds to you can tell whether the gene for the enzyme
involved in tay sachs is normal or defective. the gene and its mutations
have been thoroughly mapped and the radioactive dna matches the gene.





Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
ness@aecom.yu.edu                      




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:19:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.173557.28173@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>Alberto Adolfo Pinkas writes:
>
>>Set her free? What makes yoy think that he has her trapped and not the
>>other way around? 
>>Maybe she does not set him free.
>>What makes you think that breaking with him will be less agonizing
>>for her than breaking with her parent's traditions?
>>What makes you think that he is pressuring her to marry him?
>>
>>There is a vialble solution for this problem: To tear down all traditions
>>that keep some people blind.
>
>There are three certainties in this world- death, taxes, and Jews marry
>only other Jews.

>
>A Jew marrying outside the religion is showing nothing but contempt for
>the religion, for his or her coreligionists, and for our Law and tradition.
>It's unfortunate that there are people within our religion for whom the
>religion, and its history and tradition, mean so little.

Read the Book of Ruth, anyone?

>
>The telling of the Jew in this unfortunate situation that she's grown up
>and no longer accountable to her parents is also a bunch of crap.  If she
>were truly grown up, she would've known from the start not to date
>outside the religion, and she would've had enough respect for her
>parents to not even consider marriage to the non-Jew as an option.

It is not an obligation to the _parents_ to marry within the religion.
In fact, I believe that the choice of a spouse is one of the few
points upon which tradition allows one to defy one's parents (in
theory).  Thus "respect for the parents" cannot be the primary
consideration.


>
>Growing up is not when your sex organs, or the state, tell you you're
>an adult; it's when you outgrow the mentality that only what's good
>for you counts, and instead you realize that your actions can hurt
>other people and that you're accountable to these other people.

These are valid considerations, but they cannot apply to this case.
If the only justification for not intermarrying is that it "hurts
other people" then one's own rights _do_ take precedence.

If there is an obligation here which overrides one's own wishes, it is
to God.  If the Jewish faith and traditions are an enterprise founded
on obligations among people, then it must be permissible to opt out of
it, in whole or in part.

>
>-- 
>Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
>Summit, NJ
>smk@usl.com
-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish