HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs

In misc.entrepreneurs, moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:

>You are allowed to form a pyramid based on a service rather than a product.

This is true.  However:

>One legal way to do this is to sell mailing lists, participation in the
>pyramid invloves paying to have your name put on a mailing list which is
>subsequently sold. The sales of these lists is necessary legally but it is
>secondary to the main thrust of the group - which is the pyramid.

I am almost certain this is wrong.  You can't slip around the pyramiding
laws with a sham product.  You must have a product that people would buy
EVEN IF THEY WEREN'T IN THE PYRAMID -- otherwise the pyramid IS the product,
and that's illegal.

"Money games" like the one described in the base posting are functionally
identical to chain letters.  They are variants of a "Ponzi scheme", wherein
the only way for people to make money is by new people coming in at the bottom.
You need a sound product that people would buy WITHOUT the pyramid for the
plan to be legal.

============================================================================
Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>   303-229-6281 (W)    303-484-6725 (H)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Help the environment AND your finances!  If you can hand out a phone number,
you can do this.  Call 303-595-5675 24 hrs/day for recorded information,
then email me or call us at 303-484-6725.
============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ccarpent@dpcs_gt1.ess.harris.com (Craig Carpenter)
Subject: Re: My Mail-Order Business is For Sale!
To: hellmer@tang.megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account)
Organization: Advanced Technology Department, Harris Corporation
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:10:48 GMT


--
Yes, please send me the info on your business, what you are going to sell with
it, (Vendors, Customers, equipment, etc) and the realm of what you would like
to get for the business.

Also, a basic set of information about what your ramp up time was in your area.

Thanks
============================================================================= 
                                                 
Craig Carpenter                                   HARRIS CORPORATION
E-Mail: ccarpent@dw3f.ess.harris.com 	  IIIIIIIII    SSSSSSSS   DDDDDDD
Phone : (407)984-6444                         I        S          D      D
Fax   : (407)984-6327                         I        SSSSSSS    D      D
                                              I               S   D      D
                                          IIIIIIIII    SSSSSSS    DDDDDDD

"But, why ??" -- asked by every child in America under 4 years  of age
============================================================================
From: jxf13@po.CWRU.Edu (John Fischer)
Subject: Re: The FIFTH DISCIPLINE - Reposted
Reply-To: jxf13@po.CWRU.Edu (John Fischer)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:44:03 GMT


In a previous article, ohumukin@spectra.com (Kawika Ohumukini) says:

>In article <1992Jul20.002311.25659@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> jxf13@po.CWRU.Edu (John Fischer) writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) says:
>>
>>>===============================
>>> jxf13@po.CWRU.Edu (John Fischer) writes:
>>>>
>>>> THE LAWS OF THE FIFTH DISCIPLINE
>>>>
>>>>1.  Today's problems come from yesterday's "solutions."
>>>>-- 
>>>
>>> Or does it come from yesterday's ignorance or lack of curiosity or both.
>>>
>>> For example, I wonder if the rug merchant ever asked himself/herself
>>> "how can there be a large bump in the center?" Or did he/she never
>>>T.Y.
>>>----
>>>tyadav@athena.mit.edu
>>>
>>>ps: Why FIFTH discipline? which are the first FOUR? And is there SIXTH ...?
>>>    And 3.14158? Just curious. 
>>>
>>....Well, Tapesh, it's obvious you don't get the point.  That's to your
>>disadvantage.  I can tell you after nearly 20 years in business both

>
>Hi,
>
>I believe his comments are serious because he asks valid questions.
>They are not YOUR questions and yet questions none the less.  I think
>what you are saying is that the rug merchant is like the fly trying
>to get out of the room.  He keeps hitting his head against the window
>glass but never gets any closer to the long term solution.  The fly
>must change their strategy and go out the door, or lift the rug in
>the merchants case.  The poster is simply digging for more.  He is
>not trying to prove or disprove anything, he is simply trying different
>strategies.  It is more empowering to encourage this type of discussion
>in the name of entrepreneur'ism.
>
>After reading your enlightening post on the Fifth Discipline I pondered.
>Do you offer any solutions to the generalized statements?  I felt that
>it simply stated problems and did not offer any solutions?  Is the
>reader left to 'figure it out for themselves'?
>
>Thanks for any information and have a great day!
>
>Kawika 
>
........The post is only one chapter of an entire book which seeks to
not only illuminate the problem but offers numerous alternatives.  Even
so, we must remember that just identifying the problem is more that half
the solution.  See my sig for the complete reference.  

-- 
John Fischer                     |  READING FOR THE MONTH:
Case Western Reserve University  |   "The Fifth Discipline: the art
Cleveland, Ohio USA              |    of the Learning Organization"
jxf13@po.cwru.edu                |   by..Peter Senge, Doubleday 1990
From: hellmer@megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:17:07 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
> In article <1992Jul28.025003.901@megatek.uucp> hellmer@megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account) writes:
> >lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
> >> I have been toying with the idea of selling Compact Discs part time at
> >> college and I would like to find more information on the subject.

[...]

> >
> >  4) Prices are not as good as you might think. Examples:
> >
> >     LIST    WHOLSALE
> >     ----------------
> >     $15.99  ~$11     (This is your standard new release POP/ROCK CD)
> >     $14.99  ~$10
> >     $13.99  ~$9      (These are getting into the budget or "nice price" CD's)

[...]

> 
> Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, those prices are quite high. I am going
> to school in Providence, RI, and there are several small CD shops in the
> area where new releases are typically sold for $10.99 - $12.99. When I return

$13 for a CD they buy for $11 is not a great markup, but I bet they can make
a living. Unless they are buying direct I would bet they are paying near 
the prices above. If you find out otherwise, I'd be more than interested to
know since no matter who the distributor was, they were all around this price
last time I checked.

> to school in 5 weeks or so I'll see if I can find out who their suppliers are.
> 
> Luther
-- 
Mike
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: hellmer@megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account)
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:50:03 GMT

lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
> I have been toying with the idea of selling Compact Discs part time at
> college and I would like to find more information on the subject.
> 
> Has anyone here ever dealt with wholesalers in the music business? I am
> not sure where I would go to purchase CDs at wholesale. Also, I think that
> the small size of my business may be a problem. If I can't get prices that
> are low enough, the business wouldn't be worth my time nor would it succeed.
> 
> Any insight is appreciated.
> 
> Luther Miller

There are several CD distributors in the L.A. area. I don`t know about other
areas. Your best best is one of the "one stops". Try Abbey Road Distributors or
Pacific Coast One Stop. General information:

  1) They have a $100 minimum per order.

  2) You will be on a COD cash basis until you can establich credit with them.
     If you're lucky you can get it upgraded to COD company check terms. You
     probably won't be able to get net terms for a while. 

  3) They are very prompt at shipping orders. Usually if you get your order in
     by 4PM PST, it ships that day!  YOU PAY SHIPPING CHARGES, but you pay
     actual shipping charges so it's reasonable. 

  4) Prices are not as good as you might think. Examples:

     LIST    WHOLSALE
     ----------------
     $15.99  ~$11     (This is your standard new release POP/ROCK CD)
     $14.99  ~$10
     $13.99  ~$9      (These are getting into the budget or "nice price" CD's)

  5) Their catalogs are huge (30K - 50K titles) and they claim great fill 
     rates (95% or so). If you buy only the "popular" titles you can get close
     to 100% fill rate, but if you start ordering lots of obscure stuff then
     your fill rates will go down in proportion.

  6) You get an automatic return allowance each month of 10% of your volume.
     (i.e. if you buy $250 worth in a one month period, they will send you
     a return authorization for $25)

  7) You get a weekly newsletter with all the new releases. 

Hope this helps! 

Mike Helmer
Former CD Retailer
hellmer@megatek.uucp
ucsd!megatek!hellmer
-- 
Mike
From: chseow@teenage-mutant.ai.mit.edu (Choong Huei Seow)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Software Entrepreneur's Forum
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:01:22 GMT
Followup-To: chseow@ai.mit.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


I am in search of the address for the Software Entrepreneurs Forum
which I believe is based in San Francisco, CA.

thanks,
Choong Huei Seow
chseow@ai.mit.edu
From: awerman@panix.com (Aaron Werman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Visa/MC fulfillment card reader *LEASE COST*
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:44:45 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

I am considering getting Visa/MC services from Cherry Payment Systems. The
deal is:

	-They will charge (about) 3.5% of charges, + about $25 a month fixed
	fees + $.20 per transaction.

	-I am required to lease a card reader (which I won't use since most
	of the business is phone or mail order) which goes on a non-cancelable
	lease for 48 months at $90 + tax a month.

My problem is with the latter. The reader seems to be required as part of the
Cherry product (it is leased from a subsidiary). The $4,000+ lease seems 
exorbanent, but the value of the credit card service would justify it if there
is no other option. If anyone has researched alternatives, I would be interested
in hearing about you experiences.

Even if I apply through Cherry, my chances of approval are about 30-40%
(according to the salesman) because most of my business is not through direct
contact
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim)
Subject: Printing a Directory
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:54:06 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa
Keywords: Directory

I am interested in printing a Directory.  I information will be
completed in three months.  I have few questions

ADVERTTING:To cover some cost I will need some advertisement $'s
Where to look for companies (doing business internationally or 
related to)that will be interested in Advertising.
Any Reference book for their addresses.


PRINTING: Where to look for printing or publishing companies.  How to 
deaal with them.  What kind of information should I ask them.
Cost for 200 pages black & white except coverand back will be
4 color? Should I get the orders first than print or print 5,000  to
10,000 copies.

POSTAGE : Will it be better to get bulk rate or let the printer to
all the mailing

MARKETING : How & where to advertise?
From: dao4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD A. O'SHALL)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:00:55 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <5126@transfer.stratus.com>, moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.141821.26509@research.nj.nec.com>, shm@phoenix.syl.nj.nec
.com (Shailendra Majmundar) writes:
>> Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? What I
>> mean is that a system may be formed by which the people at the bottom
>> of the pyramid would contribute x amount with an incentive to go up
>> the ladder while the money be distributed in the pyramid top down? It
>> would be similar to what Amway does, excepting that here there would be
>> no selling of products, simply PURE MONEY GAMES.
>>

Frankly, I can't help wondering if this thread was just a joke to get us all
talking about it. Is anyone REALLY that naive ( notice I did NOT say stupid or
any other derogatory term, I said naive )? Sure, I know that people STILL play
three card monte on the streets of most major cities, but get real!!! This is
a board dedicated to entrepreneurs. I would like to believe that someone being
here has at least some sense of the world around them!
-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not licensed to practice Law or Medicine in any State, so my opinions are
just that!         DAo4@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU      (Don)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: hellmer@megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account)
Subject: Re: buying computer parts wholesale
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:08:37 GMT

jlegg@neptune.phys.ufl.edu (Jeff Legg) writes:
> Greetings,
> A few business people in our area are considering starting a co-op
> for computers.  We have had problems locating distributors/wholesalers.
> If anyone has info. on credit terms, and or vendors, I would be very 
> interested.  We are mainly looking into IBM clone types and peripherals.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff

Computer wholesalers are everywhere, but for selection try:

Merisel       800-637-4735
Ingram Micro  800-456-8000
Tech Data     800-237-8931

These three are large and have regional warehouses. They may not have the best
prices, however. For better prices you will have to go to a smaller distributor.
To find these guys look in the back of Computer Reseller News.

Credit terms will be COD until you can establish credit. Minimum orders are
usually in  the $100 range. Shipping is usually free for large ($500) orders.

Mike Hellmer
Former Computer Reseller
hellmer@megatek.uucp
ucsd!megatek!hellmer
-- 
Mike
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Neat idea forsale!
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:35:39 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

In article <l7ag4gINNrgb@news.bbn.com> mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.001531.29699@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG
>(Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>
>>For $10-$20 it would be possible to make a board that would attach
>>to a workstation or PC and allow a continously updated spectrum
>>to be displayed on the screen of frequencies all the way from 
>>cycles per hour up a good way into the microwave (giga hz) range.
>>For obvious reasons I can't give any more details, but I have 
>>numerically simulated the system and am fairly confident that
>>its feasable. 
>
>Um, I consider myself quite knowledgeable in computers and well enough rounded
>in the other sciences, but what are you trying to do? No, I'm not out for you
>details, but what would this be good for? I mean is there a consumer use?

Basically it would turn your computer into a piece of test equipment,
something roughly equivalent costs in the $20,000 range. 
I'm not sure how large the market is off hand, at the very least any
college that teachs electronics and physics would find it useful for
lab courses. 
Because of the simplicity of the circuitry required it may be able
to reach frequencies much higher than current test equipment as well.

-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller)
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Tucson Az.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:38:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.025003.901@megatek.uucp> hellmer@megatek.uucp (Mike Hellmer CAE account) writes:
>lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
>> I have been toying with the idea of selling Compact Discs part time at
>> college and I would like to find more information on the subject.
>> 
>> Has anyone here ever dealt with wholesalers in the music business? I am
>> not sure where I would go to purchase CDs at wholesale. Also, I think that
>> the small size of my business may be a problem. If I can't get prices that
>> are low enough, the business wouldn't be worth my time nor would it succeed.
>> 
>> Any insight is appreciated.
>> 
>> Luther Miller
>
>There are several CD distributors in the L.A. area. I don`t know about other
>areas. Your best best is one of the "one stops". Try Abbey Road Distributors or
>Pacific Coast One Stop. General information:
>
>  1) They have a $100 minimum per order.
>
>  2) You will be on a COD cash basis until you can establich credit with them.
>     If you're lucky you can get it upgraded to COD company check terms. You
>     probably won't be able to get net terms for a while. 
>
>  3) They are very prompt at shipping orders. Usually if you get your order in
>     by 4PM PST, it ships that day!  YOU PAY SHIPPING CHARGES, but you pay
>     actual shipping charges so it's reasonable. 
>
>  4) Prices are not as good as you might think. Examples:
>
>     LIST    WHOLSALE
>     ----------------
>     $15.99  ~$11     (This is your standard new release POP/ROCK CD)
>     $14.99  ~$10
>     $13.99  ~$9      (These are getting into the budget or "nice price" CD's)
>
>  5) Their catalogs are huge (30K - 50K titles) and they claim great fill 
>     rates (95% or so). If you buy only the "popular" titles you can get close
>     to 100% fill rate, but if you start ordering lots of obscure stuff then
>     your fill rates will go down in proportion.
>
>  6) You get an automatic return allowance each month of 10% of your volume.
>     (i.e. if you buy $250 worth in a one month period, they will send you
>     a return authorization for $25)
>
>  7) You get a weekly newsletter with all the new releases. 
>
>Hope this helps! 
>
>Mike Helmer
>Former CD Retailer
>hellmer@megatek.uucp
>ucsd!megatek!hellmer
>-- 
>Mike

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, those prices are quite high. I am going
to school in Providence, RI, and there are several small CD shops in the
area where new releases are typically sold for $10.99 - $12.99. When I return
to school in 5 weeks or so I'll see if I can find out who their suppliers are.

Luther
From: Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Grant Cunningham)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: vending machines
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:52:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711800287.F00007

robert i kesten wrote about "vending machines".
Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:

 rik> I've been following dad around lately watching as he arranged
 rik> the purchase of a 6-unit residential property.  Now he is
 rik> working on a 28-unit property near campus.  If the deal goes
 rik> his way he is considering the installation of some vending
 rik> machines in the complex lobby to boost revenues.
 rik> Any experiences with this.
 rik> Should he do this himself or rent space to a jobber?

Call a vending company and have them install the machines.  DO NOT
try this at home. <g>  Your dad will have someone to take care of the
machines, and all he has to do is cash the checks they send him.  Also,
if the location is any good at all, he'll have several vendors vying for
the space, with the contract going to the one who pays *him* the largest
"placement fee".  That's right -- your dad will get an upfront payment
just for the opportunity to put the machines in, then a monthly share
of the profit.  Doing it himself would be something less than astute...

-=[ Grant ]=-

Fight-O-Net:  1:105/54.55
Eunuchs: UUCP  ...!{reed, m2xenix}!glacier!busker!54.55!Grant.Cunningham
         INTERNET  Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:59:08 GMT
Reply-To: johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA


Well, I got some email today, and I stand corrected:
(actually, I'm sitting)

there is more than 1 type of patent, e.g., utility, design,
flower -

and there is reasonable patent counsel available if you
look for it.

A recommended book: "Patent it Yourself"
From: douglas@tinton.ccur.com (Steve Douglas <douglas>)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: RECRUITER
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:01:18 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ
Originator: douglas@bach.tinton.ccur.com

Have you ever said,"If only I had a chance"?
Well, here's an opportunity for a career which can offer you unlimited earning 
potential.

The leading division of a major New York Stock Exchange Company is expanding 
in the metropolitan area.

We are looking for-Serious, Ambitious, and Highly Motivated People.

We offer-High Income, Part-Time and Full-Time Positions.

We offer-Management Training for Those Without Experience.

We offer-Rapid Advancement for Experienced Managers, Professionals and Highly 
         Motivated Individuals.

As part of our expansion process, we will be conducting several career
open houses for those seeking - employment, additional income, or a career 
change.

You can learn more about this opportunity by attending a career open house.
  
If you qualify, you'll be a part of our in depth training program.  Through 
personal attention and constant support, you'll be given every opportunity to 
develop your ability to the fullest.

Quite simply, it's a special company for special people.  Now it's up to you.  
Call for your reservation today.  Karyn D. Madison/Exec Recruiter 908-548-7693

*We are an equal opportunity employer. 

--------------------------- DISCLAIMER --------------------------
This is my Husbands account so please don't respond to him by email.
Newsgroups: misc.taxes
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: Students and Taxes
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:11:40 GMT


In article <1992Jul21.165330.7134@alw.nih.gov>, shoaf@helix.nih.gov (Susan E. Shoaf) writes:
>I just had to respond.  I was in graduate school when the "REFORM"
>bill was passed.  From a tax-free stipend of 6000, I began to recieve
>7200$ of taxable stipend.  So now the U.S. government had to pay an
>increased stipend, taxes now had to be withheld for all students meaning
>that the personnel offices were inundated with questions on W-4 forms, 
>and they now had to keep track of all the taxes withheld, etc.  The 
>universities suddenly had thousands of NEW employees!  State taxes were
>also withheld.  In NY,the amount of tax due on a stipend of 7200$ was less
>than 100$, some benefit to the state for the amount of work their state
>employees had to now spend tracking down these new employees.

When I was a grad. student, I had to pay tax for my research assistantship.
The university had to do all the work you mentioned.  So, what
is the big deal of keeping track of a few more?