From: wetmore@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Patrick J. Wetmore)
Subject: Re: MUDs and Reality (Theory, LONG)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:02:56 GMT

In article <71946@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>In other words, there is NO way to prove that the cyberMUD
>goes away while we aren't there and the 'computer' which 'creates it'
>has been turned off.  Likewise it is impossible to prove that
>it IS there when nobody is experiencing it.

Then, of course, the question of 'Who cares?' comes up.  You've got to learn
to stop wasting your time.  It is entirely inefficient to sit around
wondering if you exist.

>
>If you think that there is a way to prove this, I'd be happy to
>hear about a scientific procedure.  In my mind it is an epistemological
>issue which can never be resolved absolutely.  

In my mind, I've got a good list of rules for how the world works. How
do I know that I'm right? The world behaves with near 100% predictability when
I apply these rules.  Which means, I'm damn close, and its good enough in
every case so far.  Screw proof.

>
>A good example is IRC.  Without users, no #channels exist,
>therefore the internet ceases to exist.  Or does it?  What qualifies
>as 'proof of existence' for a MUD?  Who shall decide this when for
>countless centuries we have been unable to decide this about the
>'real world'??

No, for *your* whole life you have been unable to decide about the
'real world'.  It didn't take me that long to figure things out.

>There are many many interpretations of _The Republic_ as I thought
>my posting displayed rather well.  Check out Alt.Magick's thread
>on this (if you're able).  RPGs and books are applicable
>in exponentially greater ways depending upon their ultimate coherency.

Alt.Magick, ey? Ever tried casting an astral spell on yourself?

>My understanding is that Plato is a cornerstone for Western Civilization
>as we know it - i.e. that if you think you've out-thought Plato
>(rather than simply expanded upon him), then you are surely
>misunderstanding his subtlety.

What a pathetic, self-limiting attitude.  Your statement here implies
that it is impossible to out-think Plato.  Just because the guy is
famous, old, and dead does not mean that he can't be beat.  This is
an attitude typical of persons who are truly *not* capable of out-
thinking Plato, however.  You get a gold star.

>>The japanese 'tea ceremony' is an artform which has been developed into
>>spiritual practice.  So are Chinese and Arabian calligraphy.  Martial arts
>>in the East and West have grown along similar lines, and, while the martial
>>arts of the East have seen greater popularity (being of the body), those of
>>the West (called 'ceremonial magick') have integrated both Western
>>and Eastern esoteric concepts as elements of their foundation.

Magic is not spelled with a 'k'.  Stop it.
And yes, I'm fully aware of WHY you put a 'k' on the end.
Putz.

It's always been my feeling that 'ceremonial magick' is a vast and
pathetic perversion of valid Eastern and Western esoteric concepts.

>Addiction is often a psycological malady which is not only difficult 
>to define (and especially difficult to assess via computer lines), 
>but is overly used by popular writers.  I suggest you stick
>to the text of my model and either give it a useful review or
>remain quiet on the issue.  You have no idea who I am or where
>I've been.

Who you are or where you've been?  What a load of utter crap.  This
is just ego-masturbation in its most annoying form.  Acting mysterious
is entirely unimpressive.  Please, please, tell me the wonderful
places you've been that poor plebes such as myself can only dream
of going. Pah.

>Thyagi

You'll notice I've used the word 'pathetic' a lot in this post.  There is
a reason. Contemplate it, young grasshopper.

pat.
Xref: sparky alt.mud:519 alt.angst.xibo.sex:133 alt.mud.t-rev.stomp.stomp.stomp:22 alt.exploding.kibo:656 rec.games.mud:9162 rec.games.mud.tiny:1102