From: kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Kayvan Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.men,alt.atheism,alt.sex.wizards
Subject: Old versus(???) New [was: Re: A few facts about circumcision]
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:29:48 GMT
	<KAYVAN.92Dec29014143@satyr.Sylvan.COM> <C01EGM.C48@encore.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <C01EGM.C48@encore.com> dhaibach@encore.com (David R. Haibach) writes:

   >It would seem that the reasons for most circumcisions today are rooted
   >in outdated religious or cultural values, or in Dad's unwillingness to
   >have his son look different from him (or his son's peers). The medical
   >information about circumcision is getting out there, and is mostly
   >overridden by whatever the "normal practice" is for the family, given
   >their history and culture and religious background.

   I am glad you included the words "it would seem". That is your opinion.
   It appears that you feel that anything "old" or "established" is therefore
   automatically outdated and irrelevant.

No, I don't make snap judgements based on whether something is old or
new. I seek information and I think about the issues. In the case of
circumcisions, there's good medical information available, as well as
historical facts.

Any practice that becomes "old" or "established" does so because of
some very good reasons. It's important to understand the background of
the practice and the motivation for the practice. Perhaps the issues
that the old practice addresses can be addressed in another way that
improves upon the tradition. This takes some thinking about the
underlying intentions of the practice. This is not discarding "the old
ways", it is building upon them while understanding their core
principles.

   While I take no stand on trying to
   convince others one way or the other on this issue, as it is a parental
   decision (at the moment), I do take issue with the premise that anything
   "new" or "modern" is automatically better. Just because people have had
   more time to think about something and become "enlightened" does not prove
   it's value over time. (with all due respect to the thousands of studies
   done every year on everything one can think of)

Just because something is established does not prove its value either.
People and cultures can (and do) hang on to practices far beyond their
usefulness (because most people don't understand the reasons behind
the practices and do it "just because").

Reminds me of an apocryphal story:

Mr. Smith notices that each time his wife makes a roast, she cuts
off the ends of the roast and cooks them separately. He asks her why
she does this. Her answer: "That's how my mother does it." At the next
family gathering, Mr. Smith asks his mother in law about the roast,
and she says: "That's how my mother taught me to do it." Finally, Mr.
Smith asks the grandmother who responds: "I always cut off the ends of
the roast because my pan was too small."

The point? If Mrs. Smith had understood the reason for the tradition,
she would have stopped doing it once it was no longer necessary.

   BTW, did you mean to say "practices", instead of "values" ?

Yes. Thanks for correcting me.

Another point is that the time honored practice of circumcision is
only practiced by a subset of human beings and the uncircumcized
tribes don't seem to have much trouble reproducing.

			---Kayvan
-- 
| Kayvan Sylvan, Sylvan Associates, kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM, (408) 978-1407  |
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