From: kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook)
Subject: Re: Request for show info/experiences
Reply-To: kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook)
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Lab
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 22:57:19 GMT

In article <2A953116.14501@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
|> All right, thanks to many of you for emailing and posting about my
|> summary.  This is what I've got now, any other comments?
|> I'm still unclear on two things.
|> 
|> First, I understand how reserve works, up to a point.  What if the
|> disqualified dog went BOB?  How do they figure in the replacement?
I don't believe they do, but I'll see if I can research it.
|> 
|> Second, I'm not clear on where the specials compete.  I thought that
|> they tried for WD/WB, but from the way the points are set up, it looks
|> more like they compete directly for BOB/BOS.
Specials compete for BOB/BOS only. WD and WB compete with each other only
for Best of Winners (BOW) and with all of the specials and each other for
BOB/BOS. So after WD/WB have been awarded all of the specials, WD, and WB
all go into the ring together where WD & WB compete for BOW and everybody
competes for BOB & BOS.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance.
|> 
|> 
|> BEGIN EXCERPT
|> 
|> A Champion must obtain 15 points.  Of those 15 points, two majors (a
|> show where 3, 4, or 5 points are won) must be obtained under two
|> different judges.  The remaining points can come from 1 or 2 (or
|> more!) point shows; at least one of these must be from a third judge.
|> A dog must win at least the Winners Dog (WD) or Winners Bitch (WB) to
|> get points.  So even if your dog wins a class, you don't get points.
|> It's only the WD/WB within a breed in competition that get points.
|> You don't get anything for second place, but a ribbon, some
|> recognition as an upcoming hopeful, and some experience.
|> 
|> Reserve Winners (one for WD and one for WB) *may* get points if the
|> winner of their sex is later disqualified.  This can happen if the dog
|> is improperly entered (into the wrong class, for example).  So reserve
|> wins can be important.
|> 
|> Special dogs are dogs with their CH; they do not normally compete in
|> the classes.  They compete for WD/WB along with the dogs that won
                                  ^^^^^
                                  BOB/BOS
|> their respective classes; many breed clubs award national ratings to
|> dogs based on the total number of dogs of the same breed that a dog
|> has won over for a calendar year.  Each club calculates this slightly
|> differently.  Sometimes they are entered just to bring the show up to
|> a major.
|> 
|> Best of Winners can pick up the greater of the points that WD/WB has.
|> 
|> Best of Breed (BOB) gets to calculate its points based on the number
                                                                 ^^^^^^
|> of dogs or bitches in the classes, whichever is greater, plus all of
   ^^
   points available that day for

|> the specials that were entered.
Basically, but its not just the number of dogs or bitches in the classes.
Say for example you have a breed where you need 20 dogs for a 3pt major or
30 bitches for a 3pt major and 20 dogs and 29 bitches are entered in the
classes, then points for BOB (from the classes would be based on the class 
dogs and all of the specials as if they were dogs.).

 
|> 
|> Best of Opposite Sex (BOS) calculates its points based on the number
|> of dogs or bitches in the classes, whichever is greater, plus all the
|> specials that are the same sex as BOS.
Yes, except for my note above about number of dogs/bitches versus points
available.

Also note that if the WD or WB gains more points by going BOS and the other
winner goes BOW the BOW also gets the points that BOS recieved.
|> 
|> Thus, a 1 or 2 point show can turn into a major depending on how high
|> your dog goes.
|> 
|> Dogs that go on to win Best In Show will get as many points as any dog
|> they defeat, if those points total more than what they have garnered
|> so far.
I'm still not sure this is right, this is true for a group 1 placement, but
I'm not convinced its true for BIS.  I'll see if I can do some research. I 
know someone else said this, and he may well be right and I may be wrong.
|> 
|> The number of points obtained at a particular show is dependent on the
|> number of dogs or bitches present, the breed, and the geographical
|> location of the sho.  There is a point schedule that determines the
|> ranges: rarer breeds require fewer dogs for points whereas popular
|> breeds must have more dogs present for the same points.
|> 
|> [...]
|> 
|> A short chart:
|> 
|>                      Best of Breed (points toward CH from largest group of
|>                            |        of either sex of class dogs including
|>                            |        all specials)
|>                            |
|>                    Best of Opposite Sex (points toward CH from largest group
|>                            |             of either sex of class dogs plus
|>                            |             specials of same sex)
|>                            |
|>                      Best of Winners   (points toward CH from largest group
|>                                         of either sex of class dogs)
|>                       /           \
|>               Winner's dog    Winner's bitch   (points towards CH from
|>                                                 same sex group)
|>                /                           \
|>    (first in each class advances to Winner's competition; specials
                                       ^^^^^^^^
                                      and BOB/BOS
|>     compete for Winner's dog or Winner's bitch directly)
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                   BOB/BOS only.
                   
|>            Open class                  Open class
|>            American Bred               American Bred
|>            Bred by Exhibitor           Bred by Exhibitor
|>            Novice                      Novice
|>            Dogs (12-18 mo.)            Bitches (12-18 mo.)
|>            Puppy dogs (9-12 mo.)       Puppy bitches (9-12 mo.)
|>            Puppy dogs (6-9 mo.)        Puppy bitches (6-9 mo.)
|> 
|> END EXCERPT
|> 
|> --Cindy
|> --
|> Cindy Tittle Moore -- Terrell's Chocolate Deduction (chocolate labrador bitch)
|> 
|> The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
|> pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
|> is a mail server, email me for details.


Cindy,

    This is really hard to learn and really hard to explain, but your
doing an excellent job.
 
                    -kayti
P. S. After you've been doing it awhile it gets easy to understand, but
      the explaining never improves.
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