HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Merlin Graphics Card 
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:01:50 GMT

[cross-posted from c.s.a.graphics]

Anyone care to comment on the capabilities of the ET4000/W32?

--
some people have asked me for some more information on the
"Merlin" graphics card by XPert. I am in no way related to
XPert and can only tell you, what they tell me about this
project.

They say, Merlin will have a blitter on board, that does bit blitting,
line drawing and area filling with up to 50 MPixel/sec. [I'd like to
comment, that if the card is based on the ET4000/W32, this chip
can't do free angular line draws or automatic filling into free
form areas, only rectangular operations are supported. So either
XPert lies once again, or they won't use the /W32.]

Merlin shall support up to 1280 x 1024 in 24 bit, up to 2048 x 2048
in 8 bit, and a maximum of 120 Hz picture frequency. [Of course not
1280x1024x24x120, they say 1280x1024x24 will be possible with up to
60 Hz interlaced.] 16 bit is also supported, but I don't know up
to which resolution.

A very interesting feature is the automatic bus recognition, in
Zorro-II, it will work with 16bit & 3MB/sec, in Zorro-III it
will do up to more than 20 MB/sec in 32 bit.

The board will be available with 1, 2 or 4 MB video RAM, you can
upgrade by paying the difference.

The board sends out the video signal through FBAS, RGB and Y-C (S-VHS)
and is programmable to support PAL/NTSC video timing.

OPTIONS: Realtime 24 bit digitizer (inputs: RGB, Y-C and FBAS) with
realtime PIP on Workbench (a 24 bit TV window on your 72 Hz Workbench,
this clearly points to the /W32), and a digital genlock (24 bit as well).

Merlin 1MB: 600,- DM, 2MB: 700,- DM, 4MB: 850,- DM.
Digitizer: 600,- DM,  Genlock: 600,- DM,  Both Digit+Genl: 800,- DM

This board will be a true Amiga card, not just a bus adaptor like the
Domino is. TVPaint jnr. 2.0 (without copy protection) and all the
software from Domino will come with the card, also a timing tool which
enables you to set up any video timing. You will have to buy new
drivers (e.g. ADPro) for this card, the Domino drivers aren't
compatible (prixes are the same).

There will soon be a generic library available, for Domino
and Merlin, with special drawing and dithering routines for the
programmers among us.

They say, Intuition can use up to 256 colors on the card under 3.0,
2.x will probably allow only 16 colors in plane mode and 1.x is
not supported.

I will buy a 2 or 4 MB Merlin for my A4000, so at last I will have
adequate graphics on this otherwise fine machine.  :-)

--
Michael Balzer, Wildermuthstrasse 18, W-5828 Ennepetal 14, Germany    //
At work: balzer@heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de  +49 231 755-2116  \X/
At home: bilbo@bagsend.aworld.de                  +49 2333 80908

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bull@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:54:22 +1100
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
> Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines) writes:
>>Barrett@iastate.edu (marc N. Barret
>>
>> BNB>    I doubt it would uplift me.  Even in Europe there is no CD-ROM or
>> BNB> good productivity software available for the Amiga.
>>
>>Sigh.  Here we go again.  Marc, do yourself a favor so you don't look like
>>a fool and buy some Euro mags.  Read them carefully.
>
>    Where do I buy them?  I can't exactly go down to the local WaldenBooks and
> buy a European Amiga magazine.  How do I go about getting one of these
> magazines from deep in the heart of the U.S.?

        So where did you get your info from that the Amiga situation in
Europe is so abysmal? Making it up again, hmmm? Just because you haven't
heard of something, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

        Actually, one trend that I've noticed is the number of Amiga mags
has declined in the US, but increased in England. I don't know about France
or Germany though (not much of a market for computer mags in a non-English
language here in Oz). The only US magazines I see now are AC-Tech and Amiga
Whirld, and in very small numbers, but I see at least 4 monthly Amiga mags
from England in the bookstores, and in much larger numbers (I'd say that
for every US mag sold, 5 or 6 English mags are sold).

Of course, all of the English magazines I see regularly come with at least
1 and often 2 disks of demo software (mostly games, but also word processors,
music programs, paint programs, PD utilities, etc).

           Bull@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au  OR  bull@monu1.cc.monash.oz
                    DOD# 251  '84 VF 750   Closet Ducatisto
             Disclaimer. If you love your llama, let it lambada.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:20:39 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <C0DJs0.3J4@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>Few Amiga users move to Macs, most move to clones when they abandon
>ship.  The Mac GUI is constricting and inflexible.

I've gotten this impression too, and I think it says volumes about
the Mac.

The mac satisfies beginners & novices, who don't expect much from
computers.  I think that hackers who are into the mac have so much
time & effort invested in learning how to get that box to do what
they want (it ain't easy), they will never abandon it.

At least the Amiga fanatics are such because of superior technology.

I think those that have left the Amiga market do not do so for
lack-of-performance reasons, but because of frustrations with
C=, fewer applications available, larger size of the IBM market...

But when they do so, they do not turn to Macs because those systems,
comparatively are:

- slow
- inflexible
- restrictive
- needlessly complicated
- unreliable

PC's are not much better, but they are basic 'open' computers
that can be made to act like computers.  Their market is over
10 times the Mac market, and Apple has a pretty poor reputation
in alot of ways.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:42:49 GMT
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X-Posted-From: cs1.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Tim Ciceran (tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA) wrote:
: In article <1ihl9cINNchd@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
: writes:

: >   why is it called a powerup deal when you don't have to previously own 
: >   an Amiga to powerup from?  Why not just lower the retail price instead.
: >   I hope CBM extends it past March.  I was thinking of getting an A1200
: >   with large HD, but right now I am only about $900 dollars away from being
: >   able to afford the A4000.  

: Good question. But we're dealing with CBM Marketing, which of course is
: an oxymoron :). In any event, I'd wait for the A4000. Once RTG arrives,
: you'll have CPU and graphics modularity, while the A1200 will always
: be geared towards the console market. Adding fast RAM alone to the A1200
: will be a substantial investment for the short term.

I think the point he was trying to make was that in the past, C='s PowerUp
deals have been, for example, where you turn in a 1000's KB, and a few $$,
and get a 3000.  (Then you go out and buy a used 1000 KB, but that's not
the point.)  They did the same thing w/the c-64,128, etc, if memory serves.

--
---------------------------------------------------------
My newsreader is screwed up... Therefore, it doesn't print the machine
name for email... Please send all email to zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu or
zarthac@camelot.bradley.edu
---

Millions of lemmings can't be wrong -- throw yourself off a cliff
Remember to always be a visionary, or someone will do it for you and beat you.

The best Disney girl?  Definitely Belle (BatB)

I hate hicks and farmer boys. I hate everything they stand for, especially the
part about putting food on my table. I can do without the food. I wish all
farmers would just die. I can live off of lawn clippings.  -- Dave Tiberio
From: mike@struad.cts.com (Michael Cianflone)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:23:16 GMT
Organization: Structured Applications & Designs, Inc. R&D Institute.

In article <1993Jan11.195510.13269@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Matthew Simmons (zarthac@bradley.edu) wrote:
>:
>: Second, doesn't it
>: kinda say something for the OS if its better than windows or os/2 and
>: fits on a single floppy?
>:
>
>Why bother with hypothetical situations?  It isn't better than either Windows
>or OS/2!
>--
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |

  Oh come now Jerry, OS/2 is more powerful than AmigaOS... but Windows?
Not a chance. Boy, I can't believe you're sitting there thinking that your
PC has two great OS more powerful than Amiga... has hardware that's more
elegant and powerful, has a more powerful integration of hardware/chips, and
overall that the machine is better. 
  You know, all these PCers are thinking this. Thinking how these poor Amiga
people are sitting there with a toy computer. 
  You people really should learn something about computers, hardware, and
software. Then use an Amiga for some time. Work with the hardware, program on
it a bit. There are some Amiga people that do just that on the PC, or at least
work extensively with them and are qualified to answer. But most of the PC here
have no clue whatsoever about the Amiga, yet they think that their little  PC
world is everything and that nothing can be better because "IBM" is so big and
so great that they couldn't possibly make anything bad. Well the people in-the
-know know that PC 's are kludged boxes without standards... they're the most
ugly innard working things... but that's another debate.  If you can't find
the software on a neat computer, then get a PC and be satisfied with it there.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: griffita@fraser.sfu.ca (David Stuart Griffiths)
Subject: A1200 - the REAL story....
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:23:59 GMT

With seemingly everyone slagging the A1200, I figured I would have to
post the REAL story...

I recently traded in my A500 system (fairly complete, 3MB, 105mbHD,
etc) for an A1200 with no qualms.  I'm playing with the new system
now, and I really enjoy using it (apart from a defective chip inside
(Alice?) which causes gurus if I use 31khz scan modes...).

The REAL progression of the Amiga line (in terms of usefulness is as
follows):

A1000, A500, A600, A2000, A2500 <-> A1200, A3000, A4000

Now a few notes:

The A2500 and the A1200 are interchangeable for only one reason, that
the 2000 has slots in it, a definate plus, however the A1200 has the
new AGA modes which the 2500 doesn't, and it also runs as fast (or
very close to it).

The A3000 is only next to the 4000 because of its speed.  If it didn't
have a '30 in it, it would be lower than the 1200.

I'm finding the 1200 to be an excellent machine, fast, small, and
PORTABLE! great for people who want to take a machine to work.  So far
compatibility is excellent, all of my productivity titles, as well as
around %65 of my entertainment titles work with no problems.

My gripes:

It's been said before, but it needs to be said again.  There should've
been a clock inside.  'Nuff said.

The HD installation disk should've been included with ALL systems.

The AmigaDOS 3.0 / ARexx manuals should've been included.

Other than that, no complaints.  The machine is affordable, and quite
fast (the stock machine is over two times faster than a stock 500, a
NOTICABLE difference).  I'm not fully confident in 2.5" hard-drives
yet, but laptops seem to use them with few problems...
 
-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Griffiths  / / Internet: griffita@sfu.ca  
____________    / /   Fidonet: David Griffiths @ 1:153/765.0 or 1:153/910.0
 DLG "Pro"  \ \/ /   Broadcast TV @ British Columbia Institute of Technology
>The Best!<  \/\/     "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:12:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.040020.21930@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <C0p5B4.HF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>>>Vesa spec bandwith is much higher then EITHER of these.  Byte says
>>>>150Mps sec...that's 19M/sec.  They also say: "Few of today's
>>>>applications require more then 100Mbs"...Vesa spec local bus has
>>>>bandwith to spare.
>>>
>>>Yes, that's like saying the SCSI standard allows for 4MB/sec, so therefore
>>>my particular hard drive and SCSI interface go that fast.  You're basing an
>>>argument on a theoretical spec.
>>
>>No I'm basing the arguement that the ISA bus is a limitation on today's
>>PCs.
>
>Zorro III has a theorectical maximum of 150 megabytes per second, therefore
>it is vastly superior to the VESA bus.  If VESA has bandwidth to spare, 
>Zorro III has bandwidth to solve the world's economic crisis...

     Just for the sake of accuracy, I'm fairly certain the current VESA
local bus specification indicates a max clock rate of 40MHz, with 32 bits,
giving a 160MB/s max bandwidth.  The 64-bit VESA LB (and PCI) specs are 
supposed to be finished this year.  Of course, the actual bandwidth is 
limited to the CPU speed (and width), since the VESA LB is CPU driven.


Aaron Buhr
abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:41:08 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Michael van Elst (mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
:
: >I disagree.  Look at the size of today's applications, and you will too.
: >If you need to multitask several of them, you need VM.
:
: I have to disagree. Exactly _when_ you want to multitask you also want to
: avoid VM. Othwerise you degrade multitasking to a slow application switcher.
:

Hardly.  Do you have any idea how VM works, or what it does?  If you're
talking about multitasking several CPU-intensive apps, a decent VM system
can only help.  Yes, that's right.  The application's working set always
remains in RAM, while the dormant part is swapped out, resulting in more free
RAM for applications, WITHOUT any significant performance degradation.  This
means that you can multitask more CPU-intensive applications than you could
on a system without VM while not lowering your performance.

If you're talking about multitasking several non-CPU-intensive apps, well,
VM could only be an advantage there, obviously.

Seriously, all these claims of VM slowing down performance are absolute
rubbish.  Take a course in OS design.

:
: Michael van Elst
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
X-Spook-Fodder: hero heroin tree shrub bush birth life death FBI CIA NSA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 08:38:03 GMT

In <93010.004230LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

PLEASE, if you are going to include attribution headers in your followups,
include ALL relevant attributions. the following puts marc barrett's words 
apparently into MY mouth, and i DO NOT APPRECIATE THAT ONE BIT.

To Wit:

>In article <rkushner.09t4@sycom.mi.org>, rkushner@sycom.mi.org (Ronald Kushner)
>says:
>>
>>In an article, damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos) writes:
>>
>>>>Finally, consider any extra power to accomodate PCMCIA
>>>>peripherals, which are even less likely to have their own power supply than
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    marc barrett wrote these hideously ignorant lines, not me. you snipped
    out a relevant attibution line.

>PCMCIA is designed for laptops which have power comsumption limitations.
>Some people just don't know what they are talking about.  Typically
>laptop owners having to replace a battery every few hours.
^^^^^^
you wrote this.

>>>gee, a PCMCIA modem perhaps? five watts, max.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   *i* wrote this.

>>If it was poorly designed. Hayes makes a 2400 baud modem that runs off the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Mr. Kushner wrote this.

>K. C. Lee
>Elec. Eng. Grad. Student

thank you for your consideration of this matter,

i remain, etc.
-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

"Those who will trade essential liberty for promise of security will have
 neither" - Benjamin Franklin
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:45:30 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.222024.2240@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Yes, but VM can help you make the best use of your physical RAM (by swapping
>out unused code).

Best efficiency, perhaps, but not best performance or productivity.

>Yes, but when you get into the situation where you need to run more than you
>normally do, there's a world of difference between "dies" and "continues
>slowly".

You should at least have enough physical ram to run the one
application that takes the most.  VM _ISN'T_ a good solution when
performance is an issue.  If I didn't want good performance, I'd still
be running my Apple II under GEOS, okay?

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: Antonio_Cavallo@mas.sublink.org (Antonio Cavallo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Unix for the Amiga
Date: 6 Jan 93 03:05:36 GMT
Organization: Mangazone Advanced Services - ++39-6-7029438

Beside the corrent Commodore Unix implementation, is there anyplace another
implementation (maybe even shareware)? ;-)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:01:03 GMT

 papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.


     And the Pentium will arrive right on time.  Not.  It's already been
delayed several times.
     They're already selling Amigas that can use the '060 (or Pentium,
for that matter :-)


-- 
Don Lloyd                / "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of \
don@chopin.udel.edu      | another computer is a kludge.  It has nothing to do |
GeNIE: D.LLOYD7          \ with the Intel CPU"  - Jerry Shekhel                /
BIX: DRL
From: barnabas@terapin.com (Colin Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:36:10 PST
Organization: BBS

um, er, what is your point? i have notin against the mac, but I like the fact
that the Amiga cannot run a program that is on say dh0 and the icon is on dh1.
That forces you to keep track of where your files are. What if you cannot find
that file or your entire HD is a total mess? As for this Mac vs Amiga crap,
Just give it up. The Mac has it's capabilities, and so does the Amiga. your
happy, I'm happy. So what's the prob?
From: pensyl@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: New A2000HD owner seeks info
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:20:45 EST

Hi Folks-

(I ask for info within)

	A couple years ago I posted here and was not an Amiga owner at the
time. Subject of postings (with misspelling): Amiga ADVOKISSY; maybe some
of you recall.

	Anyway, despite the flames (obviously thrown by PC owners) I
recently bought the A2000HD and 1084S monitor. Needless to say, I am
extremely pleased. ( I sit in a lab full of 386SX/DX machines, and despite
their speeds - I am convinced that my lowly 68000 is superior)!

	I need info/direction in the following:

	o  I am interested in developing applications in a compiled
	   language - order of preference  1-BASIC, 2-FORTRAN, 3-C,
	   all must have graphic routine libs. Best language opinions
	   and purchasing details (C advocates, please have open mind :) )!

	o  Low cost (yeah, I know), multimedia package.

	o  Best, low cost (yeah, I know) music production package,
	   SMUS output and MIDI-capable.

	o  Which accelerator board should I ultimately buy of either
	   68030 or 68040 flavor?

Thanks in advance-
Jim
From: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 1993 23:23:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, geoff@softwords.bc.ca (Geoff Seeley) says:

>	Have you ever tried to change the default application of a Mac file?
>	Unless you have a utility program to change the creator field, the
>	Mac OS has *no* built-in utility to do this, unlike the Amiga.

AAARGH! YES! I saved a sequence I had created in Tiger Cub in MIDI standard
format. Then I FTP'd it and got it over to the MACs in the music lab.
Goddamn Performer would NOT open the file because it hadn't created it. I
ended up loading it into Finale and saving it back out again just to get
Performer to open it!

-- 
AMIGA///|  / |/  | | | | | \ /  |\ | | |\ |\ \ / | Intel 80586    = Pentium
    /// |  \S| K |I|\|N|\|  |Y  |/P| |U|/P|/P | Y| Motorola 68060 = Sextium?
\\\///  |  / |\  | | | | |  |   |  |_| |  |   |  | -------------------------
 \XX/   |  got to keep the camera alive tell the world what's going on here
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:38:03 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Tom R Krotchko (TomK@cup.portal.com) wrote:
:
: >DO have Civilization available for AmigaDOS, don't you?
:
: Not only that, but you don't have to worry about having at least 500K
: free of "special" memory. Any memory will do. Interestingly, there is
: no advice in the manual that says "remove all TSRs and device drivers
: before running".
:

So you're saying that the Amiga version of Civilization isn't one of those
Amiga games that takes over the machine and kills all other running tasks?
Nice to hear.

:
: Tom Krotchko
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+