From: bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Mac & IBM Info Repost
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:01:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM

Here is a repost of -Mac & IBM Info- with the info provided by some of you.
Thank you all for your information.
The reason for this data sheet is that people in both camps are not clear
or accurate about what they are saying about their mechines{myself 
included, I do not know ANYTHING about IBM hardware, but I am learning.}
This was part of the reason the Mac vs. IBM thread degenerated into a mess.
To help keep this from degeneration into a like mess PLEASE provide
if possible article sitations for the infomation provided or corrected.

When completed, this data sheet will, I hope, enable us to make 
convincing arguments for or against the Mac.  Thank you.

The CPU

Note: I am not showing ALL the CPUs made by Motorola & Intel, just the ones 
in the Mac and the MAIN IBM machines. This is why, for example, the Motorola  
68008 and 68010 are not listed: Apple NEVER used these chips in the Mac.

Special thanks to pwagner%us.oracle.com, nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu,
nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) and s_fuller@iastate.edu for part 
of the following info.

IBM     ALU  Registers  External  External  Total  Features/
CPU                      bus      address           Notes

 8088   16      16        8?        20       52  {A dieing CPU}
 8086   16      16       16         20       60  {Ditto}
80286   16      16       16         24       72   Protected Mode & MMU
80386   32      32       32         32      128   32-bit Protected Mode
80486   32      32       32         32      128   FPU

386sx   386 chip with 32 bit internal architecture, & 16 bit external.
386slc  low power version of the 386. Used mainly in laptops. 
486sx   486 with no built in FPU.
486dx2  same as 486 but the internal clock rate of the chip is 
	  doubled in comparison to the clock rate of the rest of
	  the machine. (ex. a machine with a 50 Mhz dx2 has a
	  chip that runs at 50 MHz, the rest of the machine runs
	  at 25 MHz

80586: Now called the P5.  I have not the foggiest idea except rumor
indicates a 64-bit superscalar chip with many RISC-like features, a
386-emulation unit for backward compatibility.  As to performance, Intel
claims 100+ MIPS. It is to be out in the first quarter of 1993 [InfoWorld 
27 July and Vaporware 9/92].{We need to see this thing.}
PowerPC: Rumor has it that it is due out at the end of the year and the 601 
machine will be four times as fast as a 50 MHz 486dx running Windows.{could 
give the P5 a run for the money with the five OSs that could run on this: 
DOS, Windows 3.x, OS/2, Mac OS, and UNIX (AU/X 4.0) and its earlier release 
date.}


MAC     ALU  Registers  External  External  Total  Features/
CPU                      bus      address           Notes

68000   16      32       16         24        88 {Cheap CPU use}
68020   32      32       32         32       128 {no longer used}
68030   32      32       32         32       128     MMU
68040   32      32       32         32       128  MMU & FPU
68050: Not to be, see 68060
68060: WHO KNOWS? Better question with the RISCs coming: WHO CARES?
PowerPC: Rumor has it that it is due out at the end of the year and the 601 
machine will be three times as fast as a Mac Quadra. Rumor is that Apple is 
planning to provide info to third party developers to use this as an 
accelerator for present Nubus Macs [InfoWorld 3 August and Vaporware 9/92]

in comparing the CPUs the list looks like this:

8088/8086 ~ 68000 {a 16-bit vs a 16/24/32-bit chip (data path/address 
lines/data and address registers.  The ALU is what determines the bit
classification chip so the 68000 is 16-bit despite the higher bits
of the External Address(24) and the Registers(32)}{Side note: aside 
from use as a cheap CPU in the Classic and the lower end notebooks the 
68000 is basicly a dead CPU at Apple due to its poor performance compared 
to the 68030 under System 7.0.dot. Since that NONE of the Preforma line 
uses the 68000 and increasing demands of system extendtions like 
QuickDraw QX and WorldScript, I believe that the 68000 will buy the 
farm by the end of 1993 as a Mac CPU.}

286        ~ 68020 {This is the poorest comparison since the MMU in the 
286 pulls it past the 68020 and to the 68030 class while the 16-bit of the 
286 pulls it nearer the 68000. Since a IBM guru here says that VERY FEW 
programmers or OSes use the MMU of the 286 the 68000 looks like a better 
comparison, but since the MMU does exist I decided that the 68020 fits
better even though the 286 is 16-bit and the 68020 32-bit.  
Side Note: the 68020 just bit it -again and for good, I hope- as a CPU.}

386sx     ~ 68030 {The MMUs and 32-bit nature of these chips puts
them roughly together with protected memory in the 386 an added feature.
Heard that the 68030 also has protected memory in the MMU, please conferm
or refute this please.}

486       ~ 68040 {two 32-bit microprocessors with built-in FPU, MMU, 8K
internal cache.  The cache is implemented as two 4K caches in the 68040
and one in the 486.  This fits as far as that goes.}

P5(586)   ~ NA {This chip is interesting but may founder against the
more robust PowerPC chip.}

PowerPC   = PowerPC{This is the only CPU to be used by both IBM and
Apple and is planned to run DOS, Windows 3.x, OS/2, Mac OS, and PowerOpen 
(AU/X 4.0)

Hardware: (special thanks to s_fuller@iastate.edu, and 
nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) for the added info)

Color Support
Mac:  ALL PRESENT Macs except the Classic SUPPORT 24(32)-bit color. The
LCII and IIsi can work on 32 bit images in 8 bit mode.  With the exception
of the 12" color{69 dpi} monitor and two other monitors ALL Apple Mac 
monitors are 72 dpi.

IBM:  I need information on this. monitor types:
Monographics -> Monochrome. TEXT ONLY!
Hercules ->	Monochrome. Text and graphics
MDA: original character-mapped video mode, no graphics, 80x25 text.
CGA: 320x200 4 colors or 640x200 b/w, 16 color pallette, bad for the 
     eyes.
EGA: 640x350 16 colors from 64 color pallette (and some lower res), 
     bearable on the eyes.
VGA: 320x200 at 256 colors, 640x480 at 16 colors, and some others, 
     these two are the most commonly used.  All modes have a 256K color 
     pallette, from a 18-bit CLUT (Color LookUp Table).  Monitors use 
     analog input, incompatible with TTL signals from EGA/CGA etc.
SVGA: a whole can of worms, probably take too long to describe.  No
      standardization resulted in chaos, each manufacturers uses their
      own implementation scheme, generally less than 1 MB video memory,
      resolution of 800x600 and 1024x768 at 16 and 256 colors are
      common, newer ones (since last year) have the Sierra HiColor
      RAMDAC, giving 15-bit 32,768 colors at 800x600, some of the very 
      newer ones (since ~3 month ago) can do 24 bits per pixel (usually
      at 640x480).
      Speedwise, too much variation, some very slow (Western Digital
      Paradise based, for example), some very fast (S3 86C911 based, for
      example), some are so-so(like Tseng ET4000, a very popular
      chipset).  Some limiting factors: 8.33 MHz ISA bus, AT
      architecture where the CPU looks at the card through a 64K
      "window", etc.
Other standards not classified as SVGA: 
8514/a: IBM's own standard, graphics accelerator with graphics functions
        like linedraw, polygon fill, etc. in hardware.  Some clone
        implementations from ATI are the fastest video available today.
XGA: newer than 8514/a, faster too, only available for MCA bus-based
     PS/2s, clones are coming out soon.  Max resolution at 1024x768x8b,
     same as 8514/a, also some 16 bpp mode.
TMS34010/34020: high end graphics co-processors, usually >$1000, some
                do 24-bit, speeds up vector-oriented graphics like CAD.        

Expansion
Mac: limited to the SCSI interface and memory expandtion until the LCII(PDS).
IIsi lowest machine with NuBus support.

IBM:  {still need more info}
HD Interfaces: MFM, RLL, IDE, ESDI

SCSI is available, not too wide spread yet, generally not bundled with
systems, except as add-on.

BUS interfaces {More info please, this is Greek to me.}

ISA bus is the dominant factor, but it's showing its age.  Uses edge-
triggered interrupts, can't share them, hence comes the IRQ conflict.
Limited busmastering capabilities.

Microchannel, EISA, & Local Bus EISA, microchannel and local bus are 
both 32 bit EISA runs at 8Mhz, local bus runs at speed of 
CPU, MCA I'm not sure about.  

MCA/EISA didn't quite take off, due to market inertia of ISA.  Uses
level-sensitive interrupts, sharable interrupts and DMA channels,
multiple bus masters, intelligent bus arbitration.  EISAs microchannel 
and local bus are both 32 bit and it runs at 8Mhz, local bus runs at 
speed of CPU

PDS in PC lingo is Local Bus, the new buzzword in PC world, one standard
exists, VESA Local Bus, or simply VL-bus, starting to appear on high-end
systems, high speed (CPU clock rate, 25/33/50 MHz), hugh bandwidth (~130
MB/sec), makes it ideal for video I/O (and disk I/O).

Memory expansion is through parity-checked SIMMs, same as special Mac cis.


OSes {assumes full installation [print drivers, fonts, etc.}

Mac
6.0.7: Requires 2 MB and HD floppy and features a GUI, sudo-multitasking
       (MultiFinder) and standard program interface.
6.0.8: 6.0.7 with 7.0.0 print drivers
7.0.1: Requires 4 MB, a 40 MB Hard Drive and a 68030 to run WELL. It has
       6.0.7  features and AIC(between computers) built in network support,
       Virtual Memory in machines with MMU{1.6 times real RAM for least 
       noticeable speed degradation on a IIsi}, and drag and drop.
7.1.0: 7.0.1 with WorldScript support and for single uses will use 300K
       less RAM.
AU/X 3.0(Unix): Needs a 160MB hard drive and 8MB of RAM and something the 
       power of a fx(68030) or a Quatra(68040) to run well.
PowerOpen(AU/X 40): Rumor is that it is ahead of schedule to the point it 
       COULD be out by the end of this year[MacWeek 13 July]

IBM
DOS 5.0: Still has the 640K barrier.
DRDOS 6.0: same as DOS 5.0 with some extras and memory management
       enhancements. still has 640k barrier
Window 3.1: runs on top of DOS.  breaks 640K barrier but still has to deal 
       with DOS file structure and runs well on 386sx.
Windows NT:  Rumor mill is that the FINAL version and ALL programming 
       information not to be available before Oct 1993 (InfoWorld 25 May and 
       InfoWorld 6 July which are sited in Vaporware 07/92 and 08/92 
       respectively.)
OS/2: Unix like features and unix like requirements; a 60MB hard drive,
       {uses 17-33MB on HD} 8 MB of RAM, and 386 CPU.


Price issue: Apple is dropping prices 15% to 20% [MacWeek 17 August] and 
he first of the Preforma line is out [MacWeek 3 and 10 August].  
IBM is planning cheap machines as well:
A 25 MHz 386SLC model with a 60 MByte hard drive and color VGA for less 
than $1,200 is planned after September 14.[MacWeek 17 August] These changes 
will in the LONG term change the price issue. Too early to tell though.


Bibliagraphy notes
VAPORWARE is availible in the digest/vapor directory on Sumex(36.44.0.6) and 
is by Murphy Sewall, From APPLE PULP H.U.G.E. Apple Club (E. Hartford) News 
Letter  $24/year, P.O. Box 18027, East Hartford, CT 06118.
Phone #: "Bit Bucket" (203) 257-9588 {"These are rumors folks; we reserve 
the right to be dead wrong!"}



Corrections to the INFORMATION are welcome

"Eliminate the impossible and what ever remains, no matter how improble,
is the truth" -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle through Sherlock Holmes

"The Computer is your friend"--Parinoia RPG