HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: The Jewish nose myth
Organization: Scoeity for Putting Things on Top of OTherThings
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:39:44 GMT

aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes: >
 mk568652@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes: >>

>>Can anyone explain how this myth got started ?
>
>No one nose.

'Snot important.

BTW, I always heard we had big noses because the air is free.  ;-)


-- 
Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.

Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553
From: 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Future Of Israel
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:51:44 GMT
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

In article <1992Dec11.144257.23800@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay
Bhuchar) says:
>
>I just wanted to let you know about a prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.
>
>Daniel writes that from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
>there would be 69 multiples of 7 years before an anointed one is
>cut off (literally executed).  He wrote this in 538 BC.
>
>The decree is described in chapters 1 and 2 of the Book of Nehemiah
>and was made in the 20th year in the reign of the Persian king
>Artaxerxes.  A good encyclopaedia will confirm that this date is 445 BC.
>
>Very often the Bible consists of 360 day years.  Under this method I
>suggest that the anointed one cut off is Jesus and hence he is the
>Jewish Messiah.
>
>Elsewhere there is a prophecy about a crucifixion and another which
>states that the Messiah would die on a Passover - all fulfilled by Jesus.
>
>Jewish writings such as the Talmud confirm that Jesus performed the
>greatest miracles ever.
>
>It is quite clear that the Jewish rejection of Jesus led to a 19 century
>dispersion and punishment for us Jews.
>
>The purpose of the ingathering is to achieve a mass acceptance of Jesus.
>
>I have free booklets for you: Our Messiah in Prophecy & The Future Of Israel
>so please drop me a line if you want them.

Please save them. Confine your missionary work to your fellow christians
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: Andy the Canadian twat
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:32:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.194406.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>wisdom of the inhabitants of the world's most boring and mediocre country
>(Canada).

Hey, now wait a minute; both David Skoll and I come from Canada.  (Besides 
which, we're certainly not mediocre in Baseball - yes (and here we really 
rub it in!) CANADA won the WORLD SERIES!  HA!  Yes the American national
pastime is now no longer in American hands!

:-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Jewish Missions?? was : Re: Intolerance (was SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:53:25 GMT

The only contact I've had with Jewish "missionaries" is the Lubavitch
movement which tries to make Jews more observant.  As far as I know, they
do this only with Jews, and would never approach a non-Jew for conversion.

A funny thing happened... I was visiting New York about 5 years ago, and
my friend and I were approached by a Lubavitcher who wanted to give us some
literature.  He bypassed me, with my dark curly hair and profuse beard,
and approached my non-Jewish friend, a blonde, blue-eyed Nordic type.
He said, "Excuse me, are you Jewish?"

Funny, maybe I don't look it!  So much for stereotypes.

--
David F. Skoll


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hsiegel@cvbnet.prime.com (mailhost)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:44:05 GMT

I found both the tone and the content of Ronald Cohen's article
<14Dec92.024858.8800@granite.ciw.edu> fully in keeping with the
standards of menschlichkeit that we all ought to keep to.  There
is one paragraph to which I wish to respond, however.

> There are real critical differences though: O doesn't consider my kids
> Jewish, which makes me think: if your movement doesn't accept me and my
> family, why should I consider your opinions at all?  

It was plain to me in reading this in context that it was not at all
intended to be nasty or a flame, and I hope it will be plain that my
response is intended the same way.

Suppose that some fictitious person, Ploni Almoni in Tel Aviv, decided
that he wanted his children to be citizens of the USA.  He tells them,
and the neighbors, and the staff of the local US consulate, that his
children are now US citizens.

A staff member of the consulate tells him that since he and his
children have not complied with the requirements of US law, his
children are _not_ US citizens.  Is it appropriate for Ploni to say,
"if your government doesn't accept me and my family, why should I
consider your opinions at all?"

I think not.

Similarly, since O people subscribe to the binding nature of the
traditional halacha (as developed over at least the last couple of
thousand years), if John Smith's children have not converted to
Judaism according to the traditional halacha, they cannot consider
Mr Smith's children to be Jewish.

This is _not_ a reflection on the children.  They may be -- and very
likely are -- charming and intelligent children; they may even be
quite knowledgeable about Jewish law, even as Mr Almoni's children
may be charming, intelligent, and quite knowledgeable about US law.
But if Mr Smith's are not Jewish according to the traditional halacha,
their charm, intelligence, and learning are quite irrelevant, quite
symmetric with the status of Mr Almoni's children as US non-citizens.

B'ahava --

Zvi (Howard) Siegel             hsiegel@piano.prime.com
Computervision                  hsiegel@primerd.prime.com
Bedford, Mass.                  hsiegel%piano.prime.com@RELAY.CS.NET
(617) 275-1800 x4064            cvbnet!hsiegel@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ackermdj@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Crucifixion Prophecy
Date: 13 Dec 92 03:05:05 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1gaj10INNled@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>, jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
> It appears to me that this gentleman is conducting 
> Christian missionary activities in scj. There ought to
> be a way to discourage this, although I haven't been a
> participant long enough to figure out how. Suggestions?
> 
> Jack F. Love

Perhaps we should give his name to the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Then
they can all stay busy argiung about who has the *right* mis-interpretation of
the Psalms... <grin>

Dave Ackerman
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: What about nanotechnology?
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:04:13 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: hem@col400.col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)

In article <1992Dec16.224217.11230@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hem@col400 (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
>I started to look up a little bit of this and found that the
>concept of electricity is MUCH more complex than the original
>statements.  There have been volumes written on the subject.

Yes, but what about nanotechnology on Shabbos?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: lnd@csl.bu.edu (Levin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:38:25 GMT

In R. Cohen's article <14Dec92.024858.8800@granite.ciw.edu>:
> O doesn't consider my kids Jewish, which makes me think: if your movement
> doesn't accept me and my family, why should I consider your opinions at all?

In article <4443@cvbnetPrime.COM> hsiegel@cvbnet.prime.com (mailhost) replies:
>Suppose that some fictitious person, Ploni Almoni in Tel Aviv, decided
>that he wanted his children to be citizens of the USA.  He tells them,
>and the neighbors, and the staff of the local US consulate, that his
>children are now US citizens. A staff member of the consulate tells him that
>since he and his children have not complied with the requirements of US law,
>his children are _not_ US citizens.  Is it appropriate for Ploni to say,
>"if your government doesn't accept me and my family, why should I
>consider your opinions at all?" I think not.

This would be an analogy if Mr. Cohen claimed his kids being Orthodox.
But he claims them being Jewish which is an entirely different thing.
He should consider the opinion of Jews (which are VERY RARELY Orthodox).
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:18:41 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A retraction and apology to David Skoll

Earlier today, someone posted what he claimed to be my full name on this
newsgroup despite my explanation in the past that I could not post my full
names because of security (our userid's and student numbers are the same,
meaning someone who knows both can gain access to files from the school).

I suggested that David Skoll was behind it as I could think of no
other way that Weiner could have obtained that name. Mr Skoll insists he wasnt
and I shall take him at his word. I have cancelled the post I made
and apologise for having jumped to conclusions without clear evidence
and apologise for having questioned his honour in the matter, it was unfair of
me.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: The Crucifixion Prophecy
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:17:02 GMT

In article <3059@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>should remember that there are many newsreaders out there, and they
>are all LEGITIMATE INTERPRETATIONS!  We don't know which newsreader
>Moshe used at Sinai!  We do however know which shell, but you have
>to be 40 years old to find out.

Unless you wear a turban and practice medicine.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:10:27 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.92Dec16132914@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

>You're analogy to the U.S. citizenship process brings up the old question,
>which is really at the heart of the matter. Judaism has a dual nature: it is
>both a "nation" and a "religion". Could there be different procedures for
>becoming one who believe in the religion, as opposed to a member of the
>nation? For example, there are those who do not believe in the religion who
>remain members of the nation: Atheists born of a jewish mother are considered
>Jewish. There are obviously those who believe in the religion who are not
>viewed by some as part of the nation. So it may be this distinction that
>dictates the drawing line.

I suspect you are refering more to the difference between the requirements
for Israeli citzenship and those definig Jewishness according to Halacha.
The two are intersecting sets but are not identical.

(An American Jew, for example, could be Jewish according to Halacha but
not be a citizen of Israel.  A person can become a citizen of Israel
without being Jewish.)
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Jewish Missions?? was : Re: Intolerance (was SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 07:47:28 GMT

In article <dfs.724697605@noonian> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>The only contact I've had with Jewish "missionaries" is the Lubavitch
>movement which tries to make Jews more observant.  As far as I know, they
>do this only with Jews, and would never approach a non-Jew for conversion.
>
>A funny thing happened... I was visiting New York about 5 years ago, and
>my friend and I were approached by a Lubavitcher who wanted to give us some
>literature.  He bypassed me, with my dark curly hair and profuse beard,
>and approached my non-Jewish friend, a blonde, blue-eyed Nordic type.
>He said, "Excuse me, are you Jewish?"

Hmmm, I have "dirty" blonde hair and green eyes.  They've tried to get
me in both New York and Jerusalem.  Maybe there is a "hidden" agenda.  =B^)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:51:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.192001.18852@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
> Something of this special sense of Christmas can be felt in Dickens'
> "A Christmas Carol".  As far as I know there is no mention of Christ
> in it at all, and yet the spirit of Christmas permeates everything.  
> There are fundamentalists who condemn the book for this reason, but 
> I think it keeps Christmas very well.

I am going mostly by the various films, but there is a section where
Cratchit and son are returning from church and Bob says that Tim said
he [Tim] liked to remember who made the lame to walk and the blind to
see.

It seems to me that the best response to "Merry Christmas" is "Happy
Hanukkah," since if the person thinks wishing you their holiday is
okay, they can't complain to be wished yours back.  Conversely, if
they wish me a "Happy Hanukkah," they get a "Merry Christmas" back from
me (assuming they celebrate Christmas, of course--if I don't know, I
ask if it's appropriate to wish them a Merry Christmas).

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)
Subject: Re: Jewish Joke of the Day
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:42:56 GMT

>agw@dsm.fordham.edu (Art Werschulz) writes:
>
>(skips body of joke)
>
>Santa bent his head down to the lad, and whispered quietly, "A gezunte
>on deiner kopf, yingele."
>
>	For the non-Yiddish speaking population, what does this mean?
>
>	JJ
"A (blessing) on your head, young man."
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

   *    ***    **      *
   *   *   *     *     *
   *   *   *     *     *   
   *    ***         ***
   *   nison reuven b'R Shami             
   *   
   *   *  *   ***   ***   **  **
   *   ** *  *   *  *  *  * ** *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *    *
   *   *  *   ***   *  *  *    *
       norm  "EVERYWHERE I GO, I GO TO ISRAEL!"
+---------------------------------------------------------+

From: alec@krypta.in-berlin.de (Alexandros Gougousoudis)
Sender: uucp@krypta.in-berlin.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Thora on CD-ROM
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:05:00 +0200

Hi,


I'am searching the Thora with hebraeic letters on Disk or CD-ROM, can
anybody help me? The local jewish community couldn't help me, but was
interessted either. They told me, maybe in bigger comunities like in Israel
or the USA people might know where to get these software.
Now my question, does anybody know a distributor or dealer for these disks,
if so please send me the FAX-Number or Telephonenumber (no 800- Number
!!!!!!!!). These Software is existing, employees of the jewish libary saw a
demonstartion of this in a newsletter, but adresses were not listed.
Thanks for your help

greetings from Berlin
  Alex

 * Origin: Reply-To: 'alec@krypta.in-berlin.de' (2:2403/41)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Skoll and "netiquitte"
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:25:43 GMT

In article <92352.1801272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy) writes:

>Both you and Skoll have in the past shown a lack of maturity and a juvenile
>attitude by persisting in e-mailing me when I have requested you do so no
>longer. In Skoll's case I even bounced his mail and stopped replying altogether
>and he still persisted. This exceeds the limit of civility, it is rude,
>childish, undisciplined and shows a lack of judgement.

Is there a problem with simply ignoring/deleting mail from Mr Skoll if you
don't care to read it?

For the record, it has been some time since PAndy has told me he does
not want mail from me, either.  Yet he continues to send me mail,
including questions, in response to some of my posts.  Either these are
rhetorical questions or they are simply his way of feeling good about
getting in the last word (invariably laced with flames and "cheap
shots").

After today's most recent such missive, I went against PAndy's wishes and
sent a short note with the following 2 sentences:

"You have asked me not to send you mail.  Do you want a response to your
last note?"
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:57:19 GMT


There's been a good deal of discussion of the notion that the child of
a Jewish mother is a Jew, and thus some Jews for Jesus are Jews.

This concept requires closer scrutiny. There's no universal law of the
world that the child of a Jewish mother (I'll call such a person a
cJm for short) is a Jew, though a few racists like Hitler have tried
various definitions for their own purposes.

The cJm definition is halachic--it's a definition of Jewish religious
law. For a JfJ to cite it means he must also adhere to other halachic
principles, or the citation is meaningless and self-serving.

According to other halachic principles, by becoming a JfJ a Jew has,
so to speak, excommunicated himself. Thus he can no longer claim to
be a Jew. (This is based on a VERY incomplete understanding of
halacha--others with more knowledge please chime in.).

In short--Jews who join JfJ have ceased to be Jews (though they
can always repent and return, also according to halacha as I
understand it.) Non-Jews who joing JfJ are Christian Fundamentalists
to the extent they accept other Torah principles, but they are
certainly not Jews and can never be by way of JfJ.

Comments?

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Description of Jewish wedding for non-Jewish guests needed
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:40:54 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

Some time ago, perhaps 6-9 months, somebody posted a short 3-4 page description
and explanation that they had prepared, to give to non-Jewish guests that were
going to attend their wedding. Could that person, or anybody else who has a
copy of this article please send me a copy. I would greatly appreciate any
help.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:20:54 GMT

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:05:30 GMT, muskudar@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli) said:

 M> 1) I was told by a muslim that a muslim can eat anything that is Kosher for
 M> a jewish person. Ias this true? If it is I am dumbfounded. Thinking that for
 M> a person (muslim) who regards another person ( a jew) as an arch enemy

	We are more alike than different.

	Personally, I regard the dispute in the Middle East (the source
of the amnity) as an Arab-Israeli conflict, not Muslim-Jewish.
Sephardic Jews in Turkey this year celebrated their 500th anniversary of
arriving in that country after the Spanish expulsion.  They were
welcomed; in fact, it was decreed that they wouldn't be harmed.

	Islam has had through it's history a pretty good track record in
the treatment of other monotheistic religions.  Jews under Moslem rule
enjoyed a large amount of self-rule, as did Christians.  We were
allowed-- in Moorish Spain, in Palestine under the Caliphs, in Turkey
under the Ottomans-- a considerable amount of freedom to worship, study,
conduct our own courts, and develop our culture.  The only restrictions:
no proselyzing, and a special tax.

	Is it any wonder that some of the greatest writings came from
Baghdad?

	The current situation is an aberration and will hopefully
subside in the near future.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Anyway."
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cholov Yisrael
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:28:52 GMT
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-8558]: bourbon


I tried to e-mail this to Don Gertler in response to his post, but it
got bounced:

A good post on an important, and unfortunately, controversial, issue
of some complexity. I'm hoping that, as we all explore this more
deeply, of course in a spirit of Ahavat Yisroel, som real learning
will take place.
 
Thanks for your contribution.   

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:23489 soc.culture.mexican:7593 soc.culture.netherlands:4951
From: willemsdawnm@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.mexican,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: wedding customs?
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:24:11 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA


I am currently doing a paper on wedding customs of different societies.  I
would appreciate any information anyone can provide for me. 
Please send info to willemsdawnm.bvc.edu

thanks
dawn
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Must be SOME advertising budget! (Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek)
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:10:39 GMT
Distribution: usa,world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Dec17.180936.26250@netcom.com>, horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923) writes:
> In article <92352.083353YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>>
>>A friend of mine once (facetiously, I hope, but with him one never knows)
>>said he wanted to open a specialty cheese store and call it "Jews for
>>Cheeses." :-D   I told him that was really funny, but he might get KILLED
>>if he actually did it!. Now I have to wonder. Think of the free publicity
>>by association! :-D :-D
> 
> Yankov, you're "a day late and a dollar short" -- an evangelical Xian group
> *already* opened a gourmet cheese shop in the Gallil, and called it:
> 
> 	Cheeses of Nazereth
> 

Which reminds me of  the joke about the guy who overhears the Rebbe saying to
himself, "Boy, do *I* love Jesus". The guy's flabbergasted, the **Rebbe* ! He
says, "Rebbe, YOU of all people" ? And the Rebbe replies, " Vat do you mean,
Swiss Jesus, cream Jesus, American Jesus".                  ^



Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL


> 
> Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
> SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are
> Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
> Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
From: daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chinese Food
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:12:51 GMT
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
NNTP-Posting-Host: ece.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec11.030059.6632@Princeton.EDU> jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:
>Over the course of most of my life, I've head a number of my fellow Jews
>make jokes about our people's fondness for Chinese food.

Many years ago the Today show did a special on New York's Chinatown and asked
a restaurant owner about rumors that Chinatown was dying.  The owner replied
that as long as there were Chinese and Jews in New York there would be a
Chinatown.

Does Tain Lee Chow still exist in Flushing?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish