From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: New newsgroup for the military diehards?
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:57:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.220531.25973@news.iastate.edu>, ongh@iastate.edu (NightOwl) writes:
> 
> I've been reading s.c.a. and have been totally annoyed ..well....more like 
> irritated that there have been so many postings about Mig29s and F16s.
> So how does a new newsgroup get started anyway? I think that it's only 
> appropriate to call it alt.military-weapons.fighterjets.asean ?
> 
> If I'm not wrong, s.c.a stands for social.culture.asean ...culture, 
> nothing to do with weapons, eh?.
> And when asked to talk about some other subjects, how often do we hear the
> subject "f-o-o-d" coming up? It seems like there is nothing else interesting
> in the asean region that is really worth talking about except food. Interesting
> 
> How about stuff like social issues? Like how in this part of the world are 
> liberal views taken? Are we still as conservative as the Westerners see
> us? etc....

    I am beginning to get annoyed by all these criticisms on the legitimacy of
the defense issue as a topic for dicussion in S.C.A., now someone has even 
attacked food as a topic. To all these would be critics - may I suggest
something known as lateral thinking - which is something anyone with anything
resembling a proper education should be aware of.
    Although, the discussion on Migs and F16s was generally 'technical', it did
also explore several other points, e.g. the geography of the region was cited
to support the use of interceptors(or whatever), which necessitated an intimate
knowledge of the region and current affairs(e.g. use of budget, transfer of technology
through arms purchases, etc). It also led to a discussion on defence issues affecting
the region, which was also (IMHO) unjustly condemned. A proper discussion of defence
issues calls for an understanding of the socio-political environment in the region, 
an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the economies involved, it
also provides for a dicussion of national culture - whether or not it is nationalistic,
passive, apathetic, etc. It reflects popular opinion of the peoples involved as 
expressed by some of the people who contributed to the discussion. In fact, many of 
the issues raised would in themselves have nothing to do with weapons or war between
Malaysia and Singapore and Indonesia. For example, the issue of Malaysia cutting-off
Singapore's water supply brought a contribution from someone(I forget who) who remarked
that Singapore had adequate resources for consumption but who might 'suffer' because
they were wanton and wasteful in their use of water to wash cars, take long showers,
etc. This is in itself a thoughtful and provocative statement on Singaporean life-style
and culture, i.e. Singaporeans are very consumption orientated and could have sparked
a new line of discussion on materialism or environmentalism and resource management -
if anyone had cared to do so. Another example would be the issue I raised on whether
or not Singaporeans would be willing to fight in the event of a war. A discussion on
this issue must necessarily discuss Singaporean nationalism, culture, attitudes towards
state, socialisation in NS, etc, all of which calls for details which should satisfy 
the desire for local news, discussion of local issues, knowledge of local history, etc.
Ditto for Malaysia and Indonesia.
	   Those who regard these issues as a "chest-beating" exercise would do well to
consider some of the issues raised and relevant to the defence issue. Here are just
some of them, - will 'non-bumis' support national defence in Malaysia? does Malaysia
have adequate human resources to sustain a high-tech military, bearing in mind the
military policy towards recruitment of non-bumi's as well as the effect of a drain
of 'bumi' human resources from the private sector? does the 'growth-triangle' and 
greater economic integretion between Malaysia and her neighbours imply the possibility
of an integreted defence and the potential for an integrated polity?
     Finally, I understand that not everybody can be satisfied. Therefore, somebody's
idea of interesting news and discussion from back home is "datuk x is having an affair
with Sultan's y daughter" or Chiam See Tong wears bell-bottom pants or "Hi, is anyone
from St Jude out there and wants to talk about Miss Boobie" - feel free to go right
ahead and do so - only please don't bug me mates and meself who are boring ole farts
and interested in talking about 'boring' stuff.

Edmund

"To see the world in a grain of sand,..." - Willie Woodsworth
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean