HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  REAL Information????
Distribution: world
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:17:41 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Sep4.225245.22274@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <torrie.715629290@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>
>>>I don't know why a DSP is considered so essential in an Amiga.  The NeXT
>>>has had one for quite some time, yet it has hardly taken the world by
>>>storm.  There may be a Mac out sometime soon which has a DSP and there
>>>is some sort of thing called the Atari Fallacy or something like that
>>>which may have one.  What are they good for?
>>
>>  I think the real reason to put in a DSP is more for audio input, 
>>than audio output.  Speech recognition for example.
>
>I didn't consider that.  The speech recognition technology looks like it
>might be neat to play around with, but I don't see myself using it that
>much in the near future.  I speak with a Southern Drawl and it will take
>some sophisticated software to understand the extra syllables that most
>Southerners add to their words.
>
>Imagine this:
>
>"Computah, I'd lak fo you ta check mah spayling an make shuh that thar
>ain't nuthin aylse needed."  :-)


And I can still remember the Apple speech recognition demo on Good Morning
America.  It was a Quadra 900.  You had to speak to it in a clear and slow
manner as if you were talking to some feeble, old relative.  And whenever
they said anything to it, it went off and worked the hard disk like crazy.
I suspect that it was using every ounce of cpu and memory.  And at least
once in the demo it chose to ignore a command, which had to be repeated.


--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23358 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:14990 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13561 comp.sys.amiga.emulations:3846
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.emulations
Subject: Re: High Density drive for the Amiga???
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:36:16 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <1992Sep7.011519.1150@msus1.msus.edu>,<7SEP199209204092@venus.tamu.edu>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <7SEP199209204092@venus.tamu.edu>, cpw8034@venus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
>>>	You should have read one of the pc.misc groups about a month ago,
>>>   a couple of Amigadroids did just this.  So don't go claiming that Amiga
>>>   owners are innocent of starting flame wars in other groups.
>>>
>>>							G.Greene
>> 
>>    This is true, and it is quite unfortunate.  However, it is getting a bit old
>>to see the derogatory, and quite childish term 'Amigadroid' being used these
>>days.  Such terms are usually found in high-school to pre-high-school
>>surroundings, and do nothing to possibly ebb the unneeded hostility which tends
>>to float around this newsgroup.
>> 
>
>For your sake, I hope that response was meant to be humorous in some way since
>I can't possibly see anyone as being so pompous.  "unneeded hostility"?  
>"quite childish term 'Amigadroid'"?  If you find 'amigadroid' deragatory,
>what would you rather be labeled as?  Oh be still my pounding heart, I suppose
>that being labeled anything just might be classified as unneeded hostility...

    Pompous?  No...if my choice of language offends you, I apologize for that
fact.  Yet, notice this reference to 'unneeded hostility' as a joke...now, take
a close look at your post and the mood behind it.  And let's be honest...the
term "Amigadroid" is indeed just that...a childish name-calling label.
    As for 'labeling', I would rather not be labeled at all.  There's no real
need for it, and while I do develop on the Amiga, I also do so on other 
platforms as well.

                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mario@mbunix.adsp.sub.org (Mario Bayer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.unix.amiga,amix.misc
Subject: AmigaUNIX... YES or NO (Re: A4000 - Early Impressions)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:56:23 GMT
Reply-To: mario@mbunix.adsp.sub.org (Mario Bayer, ECA008)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: PS -> POWERSystems

>>With a hi-res mode, Commodore could have competed very well in the low-end 
>>UNIX market.  Without it, this market is basically closed to them, for all 
>>practical purposes.

Yes this is correct if you want to use AmigaUNIX as a Workstation, but as a
server with serial terminals it`s enought...

>What low-end UNIX market?  Since you claim to know so many facts, tell
>us how many UNIX boxes shipped last year.  Most of the sales of UNIX boxes
>are to scientific and educational institutions and a few of the bigger
>companies.  Do you really think that the average business is going to buy
>a UNIX box over a PC just to run business software?  If you do, you are an
>even bigger idiot than you make yourself out to be.

No... he is`nt a idiot... I sell AmigaUNIX boxes with our office-automation
(Textprocessing, Spreadsheet, Database-applications)...

And yes... small companys buys the solution... because I show them that 
AmigaUNIX (A3000T w/much Memory & big HardDisk) & our POWEROffice (the name
of our product) is better than every MS-DOS/Novell/DBASE and so on solution!!!

& the problem is not with AmigaUNIX... the problem is with C=... they don`t
makes any marketing for AmigaUNIX... C= haves the chance to enter the low-range
UNIX market with a BIG BOOOOM... but the doesn`t make the right marketing for
this... I hope that C= takes the chance with the A4000... makes a new major
release Version of AmigaUNIX (that runs with 040/AA/IDE)
 
>>Apparently Commodore agrees that they have no chance in the Unix market now,
>>because they do not seem to have any plans for it whatsoever.

And this is the failure from C=... not that AmigaUNIX is so bad...

>Skip Sauls
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

---
Bye....
       .   
        ... Mario Bayer, ECA008

E-Mail: UUCP to mario@mbunix.adsp.sub.org, over Z-NETZ to M.BAYER@LINK-ATU.ZER 
           --------------------------------------------------------           
           You can also send a E-Mail to BTX Austria user 912214584          
           --------------------------------------------------------           
            Or you call my host & login as guest.. # +43(1)3306878
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:34:56 GMT
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn

jalkio@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

>In article <1992Sep13.212653.18656@ra.msstate.edu>, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep13.204613.12309@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> aciceran@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (A. J. Ciceran) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep13.080200.23449@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu
>>>(Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>>>
>>>>Reason for A600 ECS machine?  
>>>>How about a $1000 A3000 by mid year?
>>>>Sound salavatory?
>>>
>>>How about: annual C64 sales in the range of 700,000 units. A low-end,
>>>affordable Amiga will benefit everyone in the long run. Something has to
>>>pay for developing the other toys.
>> 
>> It seems that some people were expecting a $500 machine with an 030 and
>> the AGA chipset.  As nice as it would be, I really doubt that C= or any
>> company could produce such a thing.  If the Amiga were a hacked together
>> piece of junk like the ST, it may have been easy to just throw in a few
>> new chips like Atari did with the Falcon.  Fortunately this is not the
>> case, but it does mean that developing a new Amiga is a little harder.

>Please, explain why you feel that falcon only has some new chips "thrown
>in". Actually, there is very little similarities, internally, on the ST
>and Falcon. (Still, the Falcon runs ST software.) Don't let the case
>deceive you.

>No matter how you try to put it, the Falcon has 030, DSP, suberb sound,
>reasonable graphics for $799. A4000 supposedly has better graphics and
>slots (for those who need them) and 040, but the price is about $3000. It
>is almost _four_ times as expensive than the Falcon. And it doesn't have
>pro-sound or DSP (or SCSI for that matter).
Mm...there is no HD included in the 799$ price, so add ~$400 for a
120MB HD and add 5MB Ram. BTW the Falcon only supports 1,4,16MB
and with the 16MB you'll loose 2MB.

>I wouldn't wonder if Falcon 040 would be better (than the A4000) for a
>cheaper price. (I suppose there WILL be Falcon 040 quite soon.) It will 
>probably have better resolutions and a slotted case.

>Still, I will be very happy with the Falcon, and I don't have to pay
>much.
If you think the Falcon and Atari will have a market chance....
>			Jouni Alkio

Regards...
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23761 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:13268
From: dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: GUI layout [was Re: Icon default...]
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:32:00 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

[For now, I've kept it in both, as it does seem rather appropriate]

In article <1992Sep11.042918.10844@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas) writes:
>: All my gadget descriptions for the modules in the Web (available on some
>: Fred Fish disk or other I think) are a bunch of arrays of data.  And that
>: allows multi-column/multi-row buttons that look reasonable on the screen,
>: 'cept that 640x200 users might prefer less default padding....  [Do yourself
>: a favor and start the web as "web -i"]

>But what if you need MORE than buttons?  In some of my stuff, I'm
>using nearly everything in there.  I need to make room for listviews,
>scrollers, etc.

They would, of course, be supported as well.  I don't believe I currently have
the listview and scroller types included, the MX/CY and sliders and text
types are, though, of course.

It would be really nice if Cmdre stopped screwing around with GadTools and
Boopsi and gave us a NICE MULTI-LINE TEXT GADGET.

Thanks you....  I had to say that.

>And I need to be able to group things together, by function.  For
>instance, I've got a listview-slider-number thingamajobby that I have
>in one corner, a row of buttons on the left, a listview above, etc...

I could easily support listviews, but I haven't needed them in the project, so
I never wrote the size calculation code.
But it's certainly well within the realm of possibility.

>It's complex.  And it looks confusing unless it's grouped properly by
>function.  How does one do it well?  One doesn't, unfortunately.  Not
>any way that I've found.

One writes a grouping strategy w/ the appropriate layout methods is what one
does :)

>There's no reason I should spend more time on the GUI than I should on the
>code.

Absolutely.  Err, well, maybe on user-testing, but not on GUI-coding.

>Will it allow relative positioning of gadgets into groups?  That's
>what I need MOST right now.

My current thinking is that it would allow hiearchical groups of horizontally
or vertically placed wdigets.  So you could have a master group where its
subgroups are layed out vertically, but where each subgroup's widgets are
layed out horizontally.  Ad nauseum.

>It's pretty bad, isn't it?  Not being able to remove GT gads singly is
>bad.  Boopsi eating as much input.device as it does is bad.  And those
>aren't the only problems.

Like I've said before.
MAKE A LIST.
SEND IT TO ME.
I'll try and make it better in my (not too abundant :() spare time.

>Let's hope they go away, soon.

MULTI-LINE TEXT WIDGET!  Let's get some priorities straight here :)


David C. Navas						dnavas@oracle.com
Working for, but not speaking on behalf of, Oracle Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:16:49 GMT

In <1992Sep11.033424.17056@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>The 5000/200s seem too pricey for the whopping 23 MIPS they have.  Other
>workstations using the R3000 (Personal Iris, MIPS Magnum, etc.) are decently
>cheaper than the DEC.  In the same price range, I was thinking of the
>IBM RS/6000 models.  Performance (from what i've read in BYTE) is comparable
>to better, and is cheaper.         

Other R3000 machines are indeed faster. I had the chance to benchmark a
base Indigo with surprising results :-) It however would have been more
expensive for us. DEC pricing seems to vary a bit..

We also tested RS/6000s. Can you say: ugly ? (Maybe they did improve
the machine in the meantime..).

>>This one uses an R4000 (I believe with 33MHz).
>Jeez, isn't it faster than that?  I thought it ran at 100Mhz.

I have been told that it is a 50MHz machine :-)

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: pk-asdg@cup.portal.com (Perry S Kivolowitz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HAM8 Quality?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 18:23:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Many of the 4000's at WOA were running ADPro (the same version in fact,
that's been shipping for a long time). The HAM8 mode is sort of taken from
a 24 bit palette. Sort of, since base registers have 24 bits of precision.
HAM changes are limited to six bits of precision, if I am not mistaken.

In hi res interlace, and when not viewing images with pathological content,
I doubt many people will tell the difference between HAM8 and true 24
bit. Except when they see it animate...

...and they'll wonder how you can get 24 bit-planes to move around that
fast.

pk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: SCSI Vs. IDE?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:05:28 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Sep6.003545.4418@gbrmpa.gov.au> matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt) writes:
> In article <65330@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep5.020858.11399@gbrmpa.gov.au>
> >storage@gbrmpa.gov.au (FTP Storage A/C) writes:
> >
> >|  In article <copes.715597537@pride> copes@pride.cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
> >|  writes:
> >|  >
> >|  >BTW, last week I read a comparison test between 14 486/50's.  They all ran
> >|  >around 400-500k sec on the Hdisk tests
> >|
> >|  What a crock of shit, my 386/33 with IDE pulls around 850k/s.
> >
> >What a pathetic piece of shit (the 386/33); my 68020/20 with SCSI "pulls"
> >1.5Mbytes/Second tested on 50MB and 100MB files.
>
> So what? We all know SCSI is faster, that's why I've got SCSI in my 486,
> your statement is "typical" of a die-hard Amiga owner.
>

Thad is hardly a die-hard Amiga owner.  He's just blasting the PC for having
slow disk access.  And especially because the PC is newer technology.

> matt.

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: Upgrade path from A3000 - > A4000 (thread 999999)
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 06:15:08 GMT

mcramm@dct.ac.uk writes:

>One thing I forgot to mention in my last post / follow-up is that I'm
>looking at this from  UK poitn of view - over here C= (UK) don't 
>publicise power-up deals (if they exist) to the existing user base very well.

>It's got to the stage where I'm being offered different trade-in / power-up
>options by different dealers, depending which distributor they talk to.

>However, I stick to my original theorem which is that an AGA card could be
>produced for A3000. It would probably have separate chip RAM from the 
>motherboard, and an independent video port. Unless someone can tell me
>why this could not (not will not) be done, I'll continue to believe it.

It can be done, and you can use the old rgb port.

>Since C= seem to be committed to processor modules, why not custom chip
>modules as well ?

C= keeps away from 'hacks' like these.  Expect a 3rd party board within a
month or two.

>-- 
> Angus M. Marshall.

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas)
Subject: Re: World of Commodore summary, 9/12, part 2 (LONG)
Keywords: new chipsets, WOC
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:25:29 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <BuL9xC.2Jw@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes:
>hardware. At the 1991 DevCon in Denver they showed us the first two
>prototype AA machines. The impression I got was that they were slapped
>together only a short time before. It's been a year to get them out to
>the marketplace, most of that probably being the OS work, so the next

In all fairness, you're probably right about the OS not being quite there
yet when the hardware could have been.  The question is whether you ship
hardware w/o software or with Beta/Alpha software.  I would have taken
one of those AA machines home with me in 91 had they let me :)
Even though the picture wasn't anywhere near stable too!

At anyrate, what I wanted to say was that there were the usual bonehead
decisions from management just a tid after DevCon which altered the
time-to-market as well.  And thus was born the A600 [w/ECS] ;)

>generation of machines will likely be out within a year. Providing of
>course Dionne isn't fired.

At least a year, methinks -- although there may be some interim release-
things that will interest high-end people.  SCSI II and some sort of
new-sound/DSP has been mentioned I believe.

David C. Navas						dnavas@oracle.com
Working for, but not speaking on behalf of, Oracle Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: FLASH a4000 price
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:22:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.231953.13778@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:
>>>	Safe Harbor, a rather large local and mail-order company is reporting
>>>a price of $2859 on the a4000.  The owner has been very very _very_ reliable
>>>in the past and has never spread false information before.  Thats about it.
>>>Again, I take this price seriously.  No indication of what it includes
>>>or anything.      
>
>This is probably right.  I just talked to a dealer here in Denver and he
>said he was going to retail the A4000 for about $3200.  

Oh please, please, please let these prices be true!  :-)

>He said it came standard with a 120 meg hard drive and with a DSP which
>can be used for all sorts of things including fax and modem uses. 

I'm certainly curious about the DSP.  Many rumors seem to indicate
that the DSP had been dropped, but we can certainly hope.  I've
been using a 486 at work with 2 235M IDE drives and it positively
smokes my A3000 in real world use.  I know that some people are
really upset about the lack of SCSI, but if dropping it keeps the
price down, I'll live with it.

>He also said that the A4000 and A600 were the only computers to be
>announced at WOC. ...that those were the only ones he heard about.  The
>A4000 comes standard with an 040 and he had heard nothing of models
>being sold without a processor.

I'd guess that other models will follow in the coming months.  If C=
were to announce an 020 or 030 AA machine (A2200?) for less than $2000,
they probably couldn't keep up with the demand.

>...anyone got about $3000 they will lone me.  :)

Can't help you there, but I'm going to be selling an A3000 at a
really low price if the A4000 is what I'm hoping for.  :-)

>                                     NCW

BTW, it's certainly nice to see you posting again, Neal.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: aciceran@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (A. J. Ciceran)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 21:31:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.192545.16769@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu
(Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>I was the one that said it crawls, and Marc was responding to what I wrote.
>The workbench is very slow in 256 color mode.  Also, it seems to shimmer.
>It is still useable, if you have patience.

Based on the assumption that the A4000/AGA machine was being displayed on
an interlaced 1960 with a limited refresh rate, how much can we attribute
this shimmer/flicker to the monitor itself? 

Also, it seems that no one has yet commented on the high-resolution
screen-independent pointers. How do they look up against the old
chunky version?
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:18:57 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: I've seen Unreal on a friend's 486/50 and my 386/33.  There was very little
: difference.  I suspect ISA is the limiting factor, not the CPU.  After a
: couple of runs, however, Unreal is no big deal except the excellent music,
: anyway.  Wing Commander II has animation which is more impressive than
: Unreal's vector part.  My personal favarite part of Unreal is the one where
: they have the spheres moving behind the "glass-like" lettering.

I'll agree, that was one of the more interesting parts.

However, I'll be blunt.  I went and saw this "unreal" demo.  I won't
bore you with what I thought of it on a 486/50.  I'll just tell you
that things like this existed years and years ago for 8 mhz 68000
systems.

And it's definitely surpassed.  Hardwired has so many neat and unusual
things in it...  It runs at 50fps.  48 g. vectors, 14,400 sin dots,
and it's got the damnest real-time motion-blurring I've ever seen in
my life.  I've never seen ANYTHING like it before, it looked totally
awesome.  The starfield-in-a-box was also really neat.  And even with
last years' demos, groups like Crionics, Silents, Quartex, and many
others have been outshining unreal.

I do hope the IBM demos get better, though.  :)

: $300 for an A500?  Where?  That is a great deal.

At one point in time, you could buy them around here for that.  (Of
course, that was the last time I had paid attention to it, I've no
idea how much they are now)

Now the big deal around Safe Harbor is to buy a 3000, and to get a
free CDTV.  And the 3000's price with this deal was dropped.  :)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(:"...High adventure that's beyond compare, they are the Gummi Bears.":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)