HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Just asking...what is love?
Date: 17 Apr 92 08:40:28 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

        The question of "What is Love?" was recently asked and I wanted to pass
on some thoughts on the nature of Love from the esotericist's point of view.
However, first one must understand what is meant by esotericism.  It is not
easy to explain, except to say that it is more than an academic pursuit; it is
knowledge integrated into action.

        Technically, esotericism is really the study of evolution.  It's the
philosophy or the science or the art or the religion -- but none of these, and
a bit of all of these -- related to the evolution of humanity and the lower
kingdoms.  It is the study of the energies, the forces which govern that
evolution and our relation to Cosmos.  Eventually, it provides the means of
controlling these energies and forces so that we can in fact control Cosmos
itself. It is essentially that which is hidden, unknown, except to those who
make of it a special study.  Then, eventually, all of it or at least parts,
become exoteric, open, known.  So if you take a religion like Christianity or
Judaism or whatever, there is always an esoteric aspect to it.  Hinduism is
probably the most esoteric of the religions, although it is the oldest, and it
understands and uses the forces, the energies, and sees them as personified by
various Gods.  People are thought to worship the Gods, but they do not, they're
tuning into the energies.  That's the way esotericism works.  It's dealing with
the hidden in a way which is quite scientific.

        Love, from an esoteric point of view, is an impersonal energy which is
the impelling motive for all manifestation.  It keeps everything in ordered
sequence and is the basic law governing our exsistence and holding the
particles of the atoms together.  It is this magnetic force, emanating from the
Heart of the Sun, which sustains and attracts to each other these particles --
the building blocks of nature.  Love is not a sentiment or an emotion, nor is
it desire or a selfish motive for right action in daily life.  Love is the
wielding of the force which guides the worlds and which leads to the
integration, unity and inclusiveness which impels Deity itself to action.  This
energy is one of seven streams and is the underlying energy which permeates and
conditions our solar system.
From: johnlee@pnet07.cts.com (John Wiley)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Emery as an irritant
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:45:10 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet07], San Diego, CA

Perhaps a pearl will form, but...

I use a system without Kill file capability.  I've seen people yell at John
Emery, and just saw someone plead with him.  I'm curious: has anyone tried to
limit or revoke his net access?  He seems unwilling or unable to limit the
size and number of his rantings, much less share them in a group with similar
interests.

Rather than add to the noise level here, if you'll email me on this topic,
I'll post a summary if anyone cares.  I just wanted to know what has or can be
done to reach out to the Emery entity.


Onward and upward...

---
{crash,ucsd,ncr-sd,nosc} !baron!pnet07!johnlee   (John Wiley - San Diego, CA.)
pnet07!johnlee@nosc.mil
johnlee@pnet07.cts.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Old Civilizations
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:18:36 EST

In article <3525@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>, jethro@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
[...]
> The Mayans were a peaceful, earth-honoring, spiritual and Tantric-like
> people. 

This seems to be quite at variance with their sculptures on their ruins. 
I suspect that they were quite a bit like us: power-mongering, engineers,
controlling religious, peons at the bottom, etc.  

GXKambic
standard disclaimer
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Letters to Tom [1 of 10]
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:17:44 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


Dear Mr. Harris,

[She stopped.  "How do I start this?  He doesn't even know me.  Guess
 I could say that."]

I don't know how to start this letter; after all, you don't even
know who I am.  But let me introduce and explain myself, not just
in this letter, but I hope in many more to follow.  Perhaps by
the time I have written my last letter to you, everything will be
clear to both of us.

My name is Sally Roe, formerly a planer-sander at the Bergen Door
Company.  You may have read the recent news story about my death
by suicide.  I assure you, I am the Sally Roe the news story talked
about, and obviously, I am alive.

Let me tell you what really happened...

I didn't take any time to look.  I just got out of there, still 
trying to breathe, totally occupied with just staying alive.
I remember getting through the gate and then falling to the ground
and retching.  I can't blame Betty and the kids for running away.
Maybe it was a good thing they did.

What can I say, Tom?  How can I qualify myself as a reliable witness?
If you were to ask me who I am, I would have to reply that I don't
know.  For years I have asked myself the same question and now I
wonder if, in the writing of these letters, I might be reaching out
for an answer.

You see, Tom, I want to help you.  In my own way, and drawing from
my own experience, I can relate to your situation and I know how
you must feel.  As one lost entity without source and without
destination in a universe that is ultimately meaningless, I can't
tell you where my concept of "wrong" ever came from.  Call it
sentiment, call it "the way I was raised," figure I'm just taking
a desperate stab at meaning through antiquated morality, I still
feel it--what is happening to you is wrong, and I'm sorry for your
pain.

If you would indulge me, I would like to at least act as if something
matters.  I would like to do one "right" thing.  I might be
concocting my own concept of "good deeds" in an effort to run from
despair, to convince myself that life isn't futile after all, but
I have nothing to lose.  If despair is the final truth we all face,
then let me hide from it, just this once.  If hope is a mere fiction
of our own making, then let me live in a fantasy.  Who knows?  Maybe
there will be some meaning in it somewhere, some purpose, some reward.

At any rate, I'm going to retrace some old steps and find some things
out, for your sake and mine.  I hope to share some useful information
with you before long--information sufficient to get you out of trouble
and, most of all, bring your children back to you.

Please keep this letter, even if it sounds strange to you, even if you
don't believe it.  I'll write again soon.

I remain sincerely yours,

Sally Beth Roe
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Letters to Tom [5 of 10]
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:43:14 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


So, my stay in Room 302 in Fairwood was suddenly ended, and I am on
the road--riding the rails, actually--once again, with only my
duffel bag and my life as possessions.  I don't mean to sound flippant,
but running for my life is a whole new experience for me.  First of
all, I've never done it, and secondly, I never thought I would be
running from the people I once trusted and admired so deeply.  One
of the hardest lessons I have had to learn is that the utopian dream
of the new world order is not without its dark side, its powermongers,
schemers, manipulators, and killers.  Behind all the Mrs. Dennings and
Miss Brewers who dream of refining and guiding mankind, there are the
Mr. Steeles who dream of subjugating and controlling mankind.  The
Dennings and Brewers work hard to prepare all mankind for a global
community; the Steeles look forward to running it.

And there are the Sally Roes who get caught in the middle, disillusioned
by idyllic dreams of the Dennings and Brewers and trying to stay out
from under the crushing boot of the Steeles.  Perhaps they are the ones
the Steeles fear the most: they know all the tenets, but no longer
believe in the faith.  They can get in the way more effectively than 
anyone.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: comptec91065@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Mathematical Miracle in Quran
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:25:16 GMT

This is actually just a test to see whether my previous message actually
was posted on the network.

To make it interesting for you I will mention that some fellow announced
that he found a mathematical pattern in the Quran which appears to be 
superhumanly complex. 

As often happens in these cases, the ultra orthodox had the guy assasinated
about two years ago.

I have not been able to double check the man's data because I don't read 
Arabic and the numbers are just too big. On the surface of it, it appears 
to me that if only 80% of what he says is correct, there is a phenomena
that has slept for 1400 years that makes "crop circles" and "U.F.O."
sightings seem like nothing.

The image that comes to mind is as if a message has been inscribed in a 
twenty ton boulder which has been strangely suspended over New York.
The message purports to be from the Creator of the universe to everyone
who can understand it. The message is incredible, to be sure, but how did 
the boulder get to be suspended over New York? 

Get the idea?


If anyone would like to actually read about the pattern in the 
Quran, it can be found in the appendices of Rashad Khalifa's translation 
of the Quran called QURAN THE FINAL TESTAMENT, available from Islamic 
Productions, 739 E 6th St., Tucson, AZ 85719 USA. for $19.00 (U.S) 
plus shipping, etc.

Was that unusual enough to qualify for this NewsGroup?
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Letters to Tom [3 of 10]
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:26:33 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


Dear Tom,

I want to know something for sure.  Right now I don't.  Blame it on
pride.  When I first entered high school I relished what I was 
taught: that I was the ultimate authority in my life, the final
arbiter of all truth, the only decider of my values, and that no
prior traditions, notions about God, or value systems had any authority
over my will, my spirit, my behavior.  "Maximum autonomy," they called
it.  Such ideas can be very inviting.

But there was a catch to all this freedom: I had to accept the idea
that I was an accident, a mere product of times plus chance, and not
only myself, but everything that exists.  Once I bought that idea, it
was impossible to believe that anything really mattered, for whatever
I could do, or create, or change, or enhance, would be no less an
accident than I was.  So where was the value of anything?  Of what
value was my own life?

So all that "maximum autonomy" wasn't the great liberation and joy
I thought it would be.  I felt like a kid let loose to play in an
infinitely huge yard--I started to wish there was a fence somewhere.
At least then I would know where I was.  I could run up against it
and tell myself, "I'm in the yard," and feel right about it.  Or I
could climb over the fence, and tell myself, "Oh-oh, I'm outside
the yard," and feel wrong about it.  Whether right or wrong, and
with infinite freedom to run and play, I know I would still stay
near the fence.

At least then I would know where I was.  I would know something for
sure.
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (Delawalla, Rahim)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Relevance of Indian ideology in the Nuclear Age
Date: 12 Apr 92 06:09:20 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


In article <1992Apr11.020257.4959@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>I see one problem with all of this. Times have changed. There are now
>more than 5 billion people on this old ball of dirt, and the hunter-gatherer
>lifestyle of the North American Indian is no longer an option for 
>99.9% of humanity. The days when everyone can live on the land and
>feel a connection with nature are over, as far as I can see. 
>
>So, Indian ideology may be attractive (I suspect we all have a nostalgia for
>the `good old days' of hunting and gathering) but the cultural conditions 
>required to sustain it are vanished.  Unfortunate, perhaps, but c'est la vie. 
>
>Any thoughts? 
>
You don't have to throw away the Indian ideology, just separate
the form from the essence.  

To have the quality of the life that American Indians had so long ago,
a society would have to establish self-respect to preserve the value
of every individual and the land that nourishes them.

A sense of respect for the individual and the earth would have to
be the core of any educational process.  Since most people have
bills to pay and kids to feed (so who has time to develop a sense of
spirituality), I don't see this happening except on an individual basis.

rahim
-- 
Delawalla, Rahim		Internet:  gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Old Civilizations
Keywords: Human Sacrifice
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:45:02 GMT
Organization: Wharton Marketing

In article <1992Apr5.192707.9270@acsu.buffalo.edu> v248lgz2@ubvmsb.cc.
buffalo.edu (Scott P Schwenk) writes:>I'm interested in finding out why 
there was a need for human sacrifice, what>was it that these groups were 
trying to achieve through these methods?>Is there some psychic energy that 
could be wrongfully harnessed or stolen>from those they murdered?  Also, I 
recently read that in later Atlantis, before>the fall, that they too 
practiced these disgusting rituals. . .what were they >getting at.  These 
were not savages, but high civilizations with intelligences>to rival our own.

I'd like to find out some things I don't know about human sacrifice, too. 
Here's what I do know. The Mayans seem to have offered up human sacrifices 
as a fertility ritual. Their ball game was a good example of this, for the 
captain of the winning team would be offered as a sacrifice (the spanish 
explorers said the entire losing team was the sacrifice, but they didn't 
record it accurately. archaeology tells a different story.) The Aztecs, on 
the other hand, seem to have believed that the gods were really, really, 
really bloodthirsty and required constant sacrifices in order to keep the 
sun going across the sky, the rain coming, and so on. There is probably some 
anti-aztec propaganda in the legends and accounts, but imho there's a lot of 
truth too. There are plenty of other well documented large-scale massacres 
and long-term slaughters in human history, Tamerlane, Vlad Tepes, Gilles 
de Rais, and Adolf Hitler are only some of the examples. Compared with them, 
mayan and druidic sacrifices are tame, but aztec sacrifices are still 
impressive. I would like to know if the Aztec sacrifices had a political 
cause, or if Aztec priests and kings were raised in some way that would 
cause them all to be psychopaths, as they appear to have been, since I find 
it rather difficult to justify such large scale sacrifice on a purely 
religious basis, even for the appeasement of bloodthirsty deities.

As for atlantis, beyond Greyface and his ilk I know nothing of it.

>Peace and Light...Scott
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Shoes are the most basic prerequisite for liberty
From: ddehay@triton.unm.edu (David B. DeHay)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Communal Living
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:17:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.l+pj=fc
Distribution: na
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


     In my way of thinking, one of the essential components of
the New Age is to find methods of living that are kind to the
earth and all its beings.  Perhaps one of the most effective ways
to achieve this goal is living in a communal environment whether
one interprets that as a farm, shared house, etc.  I would like
to pursue the goal of living in a commune in my own life, but
the practice seems to have fallen out of favor since the 60's.
One of my favorite books is _Living on the Earth_ by Alicia Bay
Laurel because she seems so free and uninhibited in her writing,
and I would guess that her freedom comes from living in a communal
setting.
     Has anyone out there experienced living in a commune?  Was
it everything you expected?  Is it possible in the 90's?

				Thanks,

-- 
                        David B. DeHay
     University of New Mexico   e-mail: ddehay@triton.unm.edu
From: moskowit@tronsbox.UUCP (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Newage technology
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:38:11 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.233357.1700@acsu.buffalo.edu>
v248lgz2@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott P Schwenk) writes:

>In article <57014@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes...
>>Hi Len, here we go again.  I want to say I have had my best discussions
>>with you on the net.  I have been through some experiences recently
>>that have added a whole new dimension to the answers I get to questions.
>>So I really appreciate being asked questions. Helps me to access my recent
>>expansions. WOW.
>> 

I seem to have missed Don's reply.  Might someone either repost it or
e-mail me a copy?

Thanks!

-- 


Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: v248lgz2@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott P Schwenk)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Old Civilizations
Keywords: Human Sacrifice
Date: 5 Apr 92 20:26:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Does anyone out there have a background knowledge of old civilizations like
the Aztecs, the Mayans, etc. ?

I'm interested in finding out why there was a need for human sacrifice, what
was it that these groups were trying to achieve through these methods?
Is there some psychic energy that could be wrongfully harnessed or stolen
from those they murdered?  Also, I recently read that in later Atlantis, before
the fall, that they too practiced these disgusting rituals. . .what were they
getting at.  These were not savages, but high civilizations with intelligences
to rival our own.

Peace and Light...Scott
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Relevance of Indian ideology in the Nuclear Age
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:02:57 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada



Re: all the talk about aboriginal religion and environmentalism.

I see one problem with all of this. Times have changed. There are now
more than 5 billion people on this old ball of dirt, and the hunter-gatherer
lifestyle of the North American Indian is no longer an option for 
99.9% of humanity. The days when everyone can live on the land and
feel a connection with nature are over, as far as I can see. 

So, Indian ideology may be attractive (I suspect we all have a nostalgia for
the `good old days' of hunting and gathering) but the cultural conditions 
required to sustain it are vanished.  Unfortunate, perhaps, but c'est la vie. 

Any thoughts? 


Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca

"I don't take no stock in dead people..." Huck Finn
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Just asking...
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:11:36 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada




What is love?
From: jhs@gdwb.oz.au (John Stevens)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Faith, where it's at!
Date: 16 Apr 92 06:17:55 GMT

With all due respects to Mr Nordeng, I think he is actually arguing a point
that can only be resolved in ones own mind. I find that the way christians
ppercieve the son of god (Jesus) as a "person" astounding. And even though
Jesus stated that he is as we are, that we are identical beings, they percieve
him as greater & more holy than themselves.

This is disappointing & somewhat confused. I agree that you must find the
christ within you to approach god. But I think I will remain faithful to 
GOD and not an idol of a man nailed to across.

Look for the christ within, that is the link to GOD/I AM presence/ect.
I personally interpret most of the passages that Mr. Nordeng quoted from
the bible as saying just that.

Christians & new agers are looking for the same thing. Just from different
angles & perspectives.
From: geraldb@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Gerald Bryan (Denver))
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Emery as an irritant
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:01:16 GMT
Organization: ?

In article <1992Apr15.152334.7804@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.170837.9106@tc.fluke.COM>, nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
>> This kind of response always strikes me as hypocritical of
>> what 'newage' is supposed to stand for. 
>No more hypocritical than Mr. Emery constantly saying there is only one way.

Nevertheless, examining the hypocrisies of others is generally nothing more
than an attempt to be unaware of our own.  Looking at others can be useful
if we use it as a tool to look within ourselves, otherwise its purpose is
to divert attention away from ourselves.
-- 
"Truth is simply the understanding of seeking" -- da Free John
From: Beth Lung <elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Letters to Tom [8 of 10]
Organization: yea, right...
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 00:57:26 -0500


No offence, but I do hope that these 'letters' serve a purpose other
than to preach christianity and/or waste bandwidth.

Yes, there are christians who read this group. Yes, there may be
non-christians interested in becoming christians. But there are far
more (IMHO) that do not care to have 'the wonders of christianity'
preached to them. (yes, we can press 'n' but I was hoping it had a
purpose...and if we 'should press 'n'' bacause of the content,
perhapse it does not belong here?)

	May you walk in peace,
		Beth
-- 
                  Beth Lung           elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

  How far must suffering and misery go before we see that even in the day of
  vast cities and powerful machines, the good earth is our mother and that if
  we destroy her, we destroy ourselves?  -Paul Bigelow Sears