From: dmac@julia.math.ucla.edu (saki)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 18:33:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.142721.9611@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  I agree.  People can all have opinions.  Only I feel that parents
>  should have to watch their children get circumcision.  Apparently
>  people who do it for religious reasons do watch and are comfortable
>  with it.  But people who get it done in the hospital don't watch,
>  and don't know what goes on.  My sisters are both former medical
>  students and even though their husbands are circumsized, have decided
>  against it for any potential sons because they've watched the
>  procedure (and even participated in it).  As a medical student my
>  sister had to do a circumcision for her first attempt (I guess you
>  gotta practice on someone...)  I don't mind hairdressers practicing
>  on my hair, it'll always grow back.  But on my son's penis???

Just a few observations from personal experience.

Not all people who have their sons circumcised for religious reasons
are "comfortable" with watching it. I've been to the brit milah (the
Jewish ceremony of the boy's entry into the covenant) of several
friends' sons. Mothers have been known to cry or rush from the
room; fathers feel weak in the knees. It's generally a joyous
occasion but it's tough to hear your baby in pain.

Even done by religious experts (the mohel---the practitioner of
the circumcision in Jewish tradition), there are variations in
style and methodology. Some place the baby on a board and strap
him down for easier access. Some use a pillow. There are different
methods of "trimming" as well. It's up to the parents---strictly
Orthodox families relegate this task to the father exclusively---
to determine who will do it, and how.

I'm Reform, and a woman. I decided to interview mohelim by phone
when I was arranging the ceremony for my son Malcolm last year.
Several Orthodox mohelim were adamant that the mother not be
present during the ritual, partly because of historical tradition
and partly because women have been known to faint. I chose a
mohel from a Sephardic tradition, more middle-eastern style than
eastern-European; he was French. He welcomed my participation
in the service, assigned me and my husband prayers to recite,
and made a speech about the historical significance of the
ritual while passing around rose petals from my garden as a
reminder of the sweetness of the day. The rose petal is also
a metaphorical allusion to the foreskin, not surprisingly, since
the child's penis is now "unfurled" like a rosebud.

Malcolm's grandfather held him on a pillow; my husband and I
stood off to the side; an honored friend held a bit of gauze
soaked in sweet wine for the baby to suck during the moment
of cutting. Malcolm did sob; and during the twenty-second
period of the surgery (done by doctors in hospitals it can
take up to 3-5 minutes!) the mohel chanted ancient prayers
for the baby's health. It was both a heartrending moment and
a transcencent one, I have to admit. I felt the boy's distress
but exulted over his being welcomed into the world as a Jew.

Tradition suggests that this is not supposed to be easy; that
the whole point is to ritually remind the community present
that there is both pain and pleasure in the beginning of life.
There are also suggestions from historians that circumcision
in Jewish tradition partly mirrored the challenge to sacrifice
Isaac, in the convoluted sense that part of one's sexual
sensitivity is being sacrificed to cut back, so to speak, on
the fullness of one's desires. And there's the fertility element
as well; very ancient tradition recommends the burial of the
foreskin in the fields where one farms, and the symbolism of
this is quite clear.

The brit milah is postponed in instances where complications
of birth, or syndromes such as jaundice, are present in the
baby. Even in situations where medical constraints prevent a 
full circumcision (urological malformations, for instance), 
the ritual may be fulfilled by symbolically allowing a small
bit of blood to flow. "Modern" religions have mostly moved
away from the memory of such rituals, but ancient practices,
and some still in use today, involved this type of sacrifice
to God or gods. 

I'm unaware of the methodology and ceremony used in Islamic
circumcision; perhaps someone would like to fill us in. As
a student of the ancient near east, I'm aware that Jews were
not the only people to practice circumcision. Tribes in 
Africa, as well as ancient Egyptians, practiced it; there's
a wall carving from the 5th Dynasty or so in Egypt (about
2750 BC) showing an adolescent boy standing before a surgeon
(holding onto the surgeon's head rather grimly) as the surgeon
makes ready with a flint knife. Unfortunately there are no
accompanying texts with this portrayal, and any religious or
spiritual reasoning for Egyptian cicumcision of boys---other
than to set themselves apart from other nations, perhaps---must
remain speculative.

I'm hardly advocating the surgery for anyone. I tend to agree
that studies are mixed at best about whether there's any reason
to perform routine circumcision at birth. I would hope, as would
many, no doubt, that those who continue to opt for the procedure
for religious or philosophical reasons be given the respect they
deserve.
----
dmac@math.ucla.edu