From: wkuan@cse.unl.edu (Wai Kuan)
Subject: Re: The ecosystem and the malays
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:33:31 GMT

rezal@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman) writes:

>In article <1992Apr11.173121.4639@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr10.190320.15469@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>>
>>>	We will always have tropical climate with or without our
>>>rain-forest.  
>>
>>It has been proven that the tropical rain forest is a climate stabiliser.
>>In fact, and forest for that matter is a climate stabiliser.  If we
>>lose out trees, the land dries up.  Go read up before you post.
>>

>	Agreed. A tropical climate is called so not because of its
>	geographical location at the earth's eqautor but due to its
>	humidity and warm temperature. The current conditions of
>	the earth place these conditions that define a tropical forest
>	in precarious balance.

>	Same message to Aazizam, if you refuse to believe the facts given
>	by one of the people you so fondly label as PKM, then please accept
>	the advice from a fellow Malay. Open your eyes and utilize the
>	wealth that MIT has got to offer and seek the true answers to your
>	statements above. Bear in mind, college is not limited to a paper
>	degree, other values in life can be gained from within the ivory
>	tower.


        Agreed. We should in fact be more open minded about the criticism
        made by our fellow country men in order to make a better understanding
        of each other.  There is no point to be hard-headed over some facts
        just because it is being made by a person from another race.  I am
        not seeking the approval of the statements made by Rezal just because
        he is in support of Dennis but in fact I would support any of my country
        men who have the idea of making Malaysia a better country to live in.

>>>Singapore has been without any significant rain forest
>>>for a long time, you don't see it changing into a desert.
>>
>>That is because Singapore has Malaysia to thank.  We still have 
>>our rain forest ... but for how long I don't know.
>>

>	The effects of a tropical rain forest is not localized.
>	In fact, one of the reasons that Singapore still has a tropical
>	climate may not only be attributed to the Malaysian and Indonesian
>	forests but also the Amazon jungle half a  world away.

>>>>c) The roots of the trees provide a good support against soil erosion
>>>
>>>	That's what replanting supposed to do...
>>
>>If the loggers have been replanting, I would not be complaining here.
>>The fact is most of them do not (and are not required by the law) to
>>replant whatever that has been cut down.  Furthermore, research has 
>>shown that a replanted forest can never grow as good as the primary
>>forest.  The young seedlings need the protection of the larger 
>>trees during their young years.  The researchg also shows that 
>>young seedlings are more likely to grow along fallen tree stumps
>>as they "feed" off the stumps.  When the loggers have wipped out 
>>the trees, the young seedlings can no longer grow.  So much for
>>replanting.

>	The Forestry Institute of Malaysia does indeed have a law that
>	requires replanting. There is a specific quota of the area to
>	be logged and the logger must initiate replanting to repair the
>	damage that he has done.

>	There are many factors that contribute to overlogging in Malaysia.
>	Besides corruption within government agencies, there have also
>	been cases of illegal logging with highly efficient methods of 
>	operation.

>	Last summer, a politician went in personally to investigate what was
>	reported as illegal logging within a few hours away from KL.
>	His four-wheel drive vehicle was nearly pushed into a ravine by
>	one of the tractor operators. What followed then was a full coverage
>	article in the Malay Mail and several other papers that resulted
>	in a public outcry and a full scale investigation was launched by
>	the government to apprehend the criminals. Another investigation
>	was also held to apprehend government officials who have been 
>	aiding the criminals in thwarting the enforcement agencies.

>	So, as you can see, the government does make an effort to control
>	logging and retain the dynamic ecosystem of the tropical jungle.


        Yes, I have heard of this news also.  It is sad to have these type
        of people who just want to make more money for their own interest.
        However, as long as the some of the government agencies still accepts
        corruption, I doubt the effort of control logging will succeed.  We
        must first get rid of all the 'tauke' balak and their so called
        'government partners'.
 
>>
>>>>d) It contasins *A LOT* of species which may be of use to mankind
>>>	
>>>	I don't see any reason for saving the animal species if it
>>>means restricting the country of its possible income...
>>

>	This is one bloke who'll rather see pictures of animals in the
>	book rather than watching them alive in their natural habitat
>	or at the zoo.

>	Allow me to drive my point in.
>	There are perhaps thousands if not millions of species of flora
>	and fauna that have yet to be cataloged. Who knows what medicinal
>	properties and other benefits these organisms can provde us.

>	Allow me to give you a simple example. Much research has been done
>	at Stanford on the drug taxol which has had promising results
>	in the treatment of breast and ovarian cancer. 
>	Unfortunately, taxol can only be derived naturally from the bark
>	of the Pacific yew tree and due to the decreasing number of yew trees
>	which are also homes to the spotted owl and an inherent part of the
>	Pacific coast ecosystem, taxol cannot be obtained directly from
>	these trees. 

>	So far, researchers here have had promising results insynthesizing
>	the drug and have managed to produce part of the molecule.
>	Fortunately, the properties of taxol were discovered before the 
>	Pacific yew tree was made extinct.

        Yes, but some people do not know how to appreciate mother nature.


>	The Malay culture which we defend zealously against attacks also
>	promotes the interaction of man and nature. Our bomohs seek the
>	healing powers of various plants found deep in the jungle. 
>	Research is being conducted now in local universities in determining
>	the drugs used by the bomohs in the treatment of various diseases.

>	You, who so strongly defend the Malays against the accusations of
>	other races, also deny the traditional harmony that our forefathers
>	have established with nature.
>	You deny the caring and love of nature that the Malay culture
>	advocates.
>	You deny the wisdom of our grandfathers who used to be able to tell
>	time from the position of the sun and sense danger by the movements
>	of other creature around them.
>	Yet, you claim yourself to be a full blooded Malay?
>	
>	Being a Malay goes beyond the color of one's skin and roots.
>	Being a Malay also means embracing the values and traditions
>	of the Malay culture and one of the values that the Malays uphold
>	is the simbiotic relationship of man and nature.
> 

        No comment. Same applies to other races.


>>As I have said, income for whom.  For the rich fat loggers?  For the
>>govt?  What about the poor people who lose thsir home (the Penans).
>>How much do they get?  Zilch.
>>
>>>>e) It is a source of food.
>>>
>>>	The country is not on the brink of starvation.  We have enough
>>>agribusiness to handle the 18m population in Malaysia.

>	Although we are no longer scavengers who seek to satisfy their
>	hunger by foraging into the jungle, there may be many other
>	delicious fruits which have not been found and may still lie
>	waitng to be discovered by humans.

>	The only question is whether their first contact with technology
>	is with a biologist's gentle hand or a logger's powerful chainsaw.

>	Durian was never the culture fruit we see today with its numerous
>	hybrids ranging from the first D1 to the sweet and fleshy D24.
>	It was native to the jungle and man discovered it. Man then
>	assisted the durian in its evolution by combining science and
>	nature. 

>	Applied to a macro scale, this is how we should live. A fruitful
>	relationship between science and nature.

>>>	There have not been any referendums taken on this issue; so I
>>>guess the practise should go on until such a time that the majority
>>>wishes to stop it...
>>
>>I am one of the majority who says loging ought to be stopped.

>	While I do not support the complete abolishment of logging,
>	I support every effort to maintain nature while still being
>	able to export wood. One simple solution would be specific
>	plots which can be rotated on a 10-15 year basis to provide
>	a continuous source of wood while letting our virgin jungle
>	remain virgin.

        Good point here, Rezal.  I too do support that logging should be
        continue but it should also be controled in the sense that it will
        not harm our future earnings from it while still being able to enjoy
        mother nature.

>	Dear Aazizam, 
>	I am extremely disappointed with your view of nature and the role
>	of man. Even though being an engineer, we are also scientists who
>	have the greater responsiblity of safekeeping this earth as a legacy
>	for the future.
>	
>	MIT maybe better than Stanford or Princeton. Then again maybe not.
>	Regardless of its position relative to Stanford or Princeton, it
>	still is a premier institution in the world. While you may remain
>	satisfied with the degree MIT will eventually award you, I cannot
>	but express frustration in your attitude that seems to allow other
>	aspects of your MIT education to slip by your fingers.

>	While being a Malay with an MIT degree may seem admirable, the
>	mentality and attitude that one holds after graduating from it
>	should be able to convey the maturity and respectability of such
>	and institution.

>	My advice is entirely sincere for I bear no prejudices as for I am
>	a Malay like you and have therefore remained untouched by your 
>	previous racial slurs. This article is not a retaliation to any 
>	attack but a gentle advice to a fellow Malaysian technocrat.

        I think what Rezal is saying here should be applicable to all fellow
        Malaysians that we should retain our human value regardless of what
        we do, who we are or what we are going to be in the future.  Not 
        trying to be an expert on giving advise but just a valid observation
        from a fellow Malaysian.


>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
>>EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
>>New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
>>---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
>>(bugs+flames) > /dev/null


>-Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman
>Stanford University. Home of the NCAA champions...

>"We did not inherit the earth from our fathers but borrowed it from our
>children."

--
*  William Kuan (wkuan@cse.unl.edu)  |  Disclaimer : Standard disclaimer    *
*  University of Nebraska, Lincoln   |               applies.               *
*    'Never itch for anything you    |   "We all live under the same sky,   *
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