HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 23 Jul 1992 16:10:48 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
>jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

[...]

>>Exactly my point, John.  OS/2 2.0 and AmigaDOS 2.04 do *not* have roughly
>>equivalent usefulness and functionality.  So why should they be expected
>>to run on the same hardware and occupy the same amount of RAM and HD space?
>>
>What functionality/usefulness does OS/2 posess that AmigaDOS 2.04 does
>not?  I am talking about the operating system here, not what runs on top
>of it.  Also please stay clear of VM/non-VM issues as there are clearly
>tradeoffs as to which approach is desired.  The same can be said for
>memory protection as well.  Other than these issues, OS/2 has better
>capabilities and functionality than AmigaDOS 2.04 because:___________

I'm curious, why would you exclude VM and memory protection from the 
discussion?  Just becuase these issues are not important to YOU, doesn't
mean they have no significance to other people.

What would you say a few years back when a DOS user said: who needs 
multitasking?  who needs 4096 colors?  who needs digital stereo sound?  
who needs more than 640K?  You'd probably laugh in his face, right?

Now I'm seeing Amiga users saying: who needs VM?  who needs DIG?  who needs
memory protection, resource tracking and all that crud?

Times sure have changed, huh?

-- Nan
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Silly columnists
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 09:14:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Okay. Now I understand that computers use 1's and 0's to represent
data, but how do they get the colors on the screen?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: catapcnl@NeXTWork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Danger!
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:05:10 GMT


Warning!!! The following signature may offend the liberals in our viewing  
audience.  If you are not a liberal, then read the following quote.

"CABINET MEMBERS WANTED: America is now the septic tank of Reagan-Bush.  Must  
be cleaned immediately.  Cost no concern.  May be required to work in hazardous  
conditions in Capitol Hill.  If interested, apply to: Clinton-Gore Campaign."  

Just to show I can look at a situation from two perspectives. :-)
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"To say that a small percentage of Americans should be treated better than the  
other 90+% due to past injustice is the act of freeloaders, not responsible  
human beings." - Chris Lawrence, RE Affirmative Action
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:10:46 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>:   So you're saying the Quadra has no new technology?  Last I looked,
>: there was a new NuBus 90 bus in there, a built-in motherboard DMA

>I don't LIKE NuBus.  It... lacks.

  Care to elaborate?  NuBus seems to have most of what you would
want in a bus.  It's not particularly fast anymore, but it does
have neat features (in NuBus 90) like cache coherency protocols,
something which Zorro III didn't have last I looked.

>: high-speed SCSI controller (two of them for the Q900), and of course,

>That one I did see, yes.  Though it's not DMA either, I don't think.
>Isn't it hand-fed too, so to put?

  Yes.  But it's hand-fed very fast.  I don't particularly care
to defend the pseudo-DMA SCSI, but for the intended target audience, 
having DMA wouldn't make much difference.  And there's also the
question of whether a non-DMA 8MB/s SCSI system performs better
than a DMA 3MB/s SCSI system.

>: the 24-bit graphics on board (with support for VGA, SVGA, NTSC, PAL
>: outputs etc etc).

>mmph.  I've seen the NTSC output, and it wasn't cheap or good-looking.
>Not the one I saw.

  Even so, no other PC supports 16 bit colour on megapixel monitors
on the motherboard as far as I know.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: byte review
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:37:29 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Helsinki

robert.buonincontro@canrem.com (robert buonincontro) writes:
: -> Guys... would it be that "video-ready" Amiga2000HD<whatever> that C=
: -> is advertisting now?  well, reviewing that "new" Amiga is obviously
: -> not as exciting as hearing about the rumored Amigas.  Nonetheless, it
: -> does have an 030 and 100HD... (hey, reviewing it is better than
: -> reviewing the A600!)
: ->
: -> What do you folks think?
: 
:  I don't think Byte will be reviewing the video ready Amiga. Unless they

There will be no _review_, but rather Jerry Pournelle will write
something stupid on his column on Byte about a Amiga new to him (ie.
A600, A500+, A3000T, A3000, A3000UX or A1000...). Or he'll write about
Atari ST and thinks that it's an Amiga and wonders why it can't run
C-64 software or OS/2.

: are complete fools they already know it is a bundled package. I is also
: unlikely that they will be reviewing an Amiga 600. Byte prides
: themselves at being the first to report something. The A600 is old news.

But it's not Byte-review, but something small on a column written by
Jerry "Amiga? Is it something one can eat?" Pournelle - that is more
opinions than facts.

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
From: mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: AA Chipset: PAULA!!!!
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:33:06 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

If there was ever a discussion of the AA Chipset here, I missed it.  So,
does anyone have ANY idea (speculation, etc) what the new Paula will do?
The oldest and truest rumor I've heard is:

Two modes... 1) 16 8-bit voices
             2) 8 16-bit voices

Incidentally, I heard this rumor at about the same time I heard that new
graphics capabilities included 8-bit displays from a 24-bit pallete and a
theoretical 24-bit HAM mode.  Comments?

 _ __ ___ ____ _____ _____________ __ _ ___ ___ _ _  _  _  _  _  _
///_//__//___//____//_______  _   \\// \\ //   \V/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )  //  //  //
mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu  / // /) )/ _ \V/ _  // (/ // _  // (/ / \X/ \X/ \X/
"You fat, bloated BAKA!!" (_/(_/(_/(_/ \_)\_)\_)\___/(_/ \_)\___/ of Megawatts
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:06:28 GMT

Just curious... what was the MM/1?


Isn't it cool?  All of us 1st generation non-IBM systems, just about,
except for maybe the C64, have a proprietary clone upgrade... even the
99/4A!  We have a 640k, 12mhz version compatible!

512 colors as well... :)  course, maybe 2 dozens programs were written
that took advantage of it's capabilities.  But now, years later, we're 
even getting a Windowing OS!

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:01:40 GMT

In article <torrie.712474736@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>
>>Most people make very little use of a computer's capabilities. Of course 
>>programmers are an exception, but they are small in number. As far as I can
>>tell Communications, Word Processing, Speadsheets, Painting at an elementary
>>level and playing games is what most people use their PC's for. 
>
>  I'm not sure you understand what you think computers SHOULD be used for.
>I personally think they should be used a lot more for information access, 
>but the problem is that the communications infrastructure across the
>world is lagging the computer.  The power at the home is there - we just
>don't have 1.5Mb/s lines into every home yet.

Did I say anything about what they should be used for? I simply commented
on what they are used for. I don't know where you get off thinking that
I haven't a clue re their use. I've beeen at this for longer than your
age. As far as ISDN goes, we are years away from that. This isn't the
pie in the sky Mac/NeXT group. Come down to reality. ISDN is going to take
a long time to get into the homes of the world. A few test sites in the US
does not the world make.
>
>>Home finances can be
>>done with a calculator.
>
>  Or a slide rule, or an abacus, or pencil and paper.  Gee, I wonder
>why people don't think these are such good ideas (hint: there's this
>thing called TIME.  It translates to money).  That's why lots of people
>pay accountants to do their taxes.

People do think pencil,paper, calculators are good things. I don't pay
accountants to do anything. Perhaps your tax system is more complicated
or the yuppies in California have to figure out how to deduct their latest
fads.
>
>>to me is the Amiga. The Mac and PC worlds will force you into a 2cond
>>mortgage with their upgrades every 3 months.
>                                    ^^^^^^^^
>  Just a slight exaggeration, Philip?  

Perhaps. I was not referring to hardware. I was talking about software.
 
Philip
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: Columbia U., New York City
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:31:04 GMT
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <mykes.0asd@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>Not true.  On most things they get 100% of the vote, at least in the
>house of representatives - I got bored of watching the senate on
>C-SPAN :)  What I've seen in the last 3 years, and over 1000 hours
>of C-SPAN II, is bills with votes split consistently along party lines.
>And don't forget, the dems can afford to have a few vote the other way
>(intentionally so, beyond a doubt) for appearances sake - they have
>that kind of majority.
>
	That's the thing: the democrats DON'T have a majority --
at least not when they need 2/3 votes to override presidential
vetos (or is that vetoes 8)
	-- Ethan


purgamentum init, exit purgamentum
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:19677 comp.sys.amiga.misc:11903
From: rknop@cco.caltech.edu (Robert Andrew Knop)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: ! Pournelle [sic] says that there is a new amiga !
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:23:06 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

gilgalad@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin) writes:

>I have to agree with this.  I believe that Pournelle has little in the
>way of knowledge when it comes to computers.

While he may not have much in the way of technical knowledge (I have no idea
if he does) or programming knowledge (again, maybe he does, I don't know), he
has used a large number of different computers, is a regular user of
computers, and thus has a lot of knowledge of computers from a user's
standpoint.  And, after all, that's what most people are interested in, not in
the technical details of how the cache memory works, or the specifics of the
implementation of the memory drivers.

-Rob Knop
rknop@tybalt.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@srl02.cacs.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: TKKC VS. JLBC
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:30:08 GMT

lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:

>cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>: In article <1992Jul16.173410.23840@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:

>: >Jarkko Lindblad
>: 
>: A friend and I drank a carton of beer between us on Saturday night 
>: (relieving stress after seminars).  Do we qualify for the 
>: JLBC (Jarkko Lindblad Beer Club) yet?  :-)  A much more worthy group
>: than the TKKC I feel.

>Yes, it is much more worthy group than the TKKC, but it's also much
>harder to get into it. Even as have no idea how much a carton is, I
>can say that it's not enough - the easiest way to get into JLBC is to
>gain extra weight of around 50 lb in something like six months by
>drinking lot's of beer. I managed to fatten myself by such amount is
>three months... (fortunately I have not gained even a pound in the
>last year and still only weight 200 lb's instead of 400...:)

Aww, you non TKKCers are totally clueless! Get a life, and join the
TKKC!

>--
>Jarkko Lindblad
>lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:42:52 GMT

leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:

>As my reasearch has discovered, Virtual Memory has been implemented on
>the Amiga, as of February.  Therefore, if you need it, it is available.

>Thom

Yes, it's available now. The name of the product is GigaMem and it's
distributed by BSC in Germany

Bye..
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: TOS - Did they ever fix it
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:26:05 GMT

In <1992Jul27.185515.3818@cs.rose-hulman.edu> catapcnl@NeXTWork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence) writes:
>OK, so how *did* they fix it?? {The stumper for the crowd}.

plain and simple, they removed all the F-line trapping instructions
on the TT. That's why the TOS version for the TT can't be simply
burned into EPROMs for the ST series but you need an adapter board
that fits 256k (instead of the 192k in the ST).

A couple of programs broken because they used the same F-line traps
(or even different ones).. but that has settled down in the meantime.
More programs broke because of self-modifying code on the 68020 :-)

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: s_fuller@iastate.edu (Steve Fuller)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:48:10 GMT

In <mykes.0a97@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>In article <l73suhINN3hd@pollux.usc.edu> addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison) writes:
>> In <1992Jul25.220049.2298@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>> }   Most such $1000 systems come with 2M of RAM.  To run OS/2 well, you need
>> }only add 6M, which is about $200-$250 at today's prices.  It has also been
>> }mentioned that OS/2 will fit well onto a 60M drive, as long as you aren't
>> }trying to fit 40M of C++ development tools onto it as well.  60M SCSI drives
>> }can be had for $250 these days.
>>
>> What good is VM if you don't have any harddisk space left?
>>

It gives you a good excuse to put a larger hard drive in the next
equipment purchase proposal ;)


>VM will also cut the battery life of a laptop/notebook computer down to
>5 minutes :)

>> --Richard
>>

>--
>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024

-- 
---------------------=------------------------------     ///
Steve Fuller         =   Darwin's Ideal Evolution       ///
Net.traveller        =  C64 -> IBM -> MAC -> Amiga  \\\///
s_fuller@iastate.edu =                               \XX/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:41:55 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>I for one am not giving up on my Amiga.  I have been pricing $4K and up
>PC systems, and in this price range, the Amiga 3000 with 040 board is
>the price/performance leader.  At $6K, the Amiga 2000 with GVP 040
>and 24-bit board pushes systems at 4x the cost (i.e. SGI Elan).
>

Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
costs something like $16K.

>
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
From: sbiddle@aviate.welly.gen.nz (Steve Biddle)
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:32:49 +1200
Organization: Steves Amiga - Wellington, New Zealand.
X-Newsreader: Ann 0.9

In article <1992Jul27.184043.23691@sbcs.sunysb.edu>,
	dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>
>
>	The air was still. My new IDEK monitor flashed the screen colors a
>few times (I have to send it back to the dealer). I tried to set the mood
>by finding a nice TV station to watch, so I put it on channel 8, the Prevue
>Guide. I then proceeded to read my mail. It was a very interesting mailing
>from a fellow netter.
>
>	Suddenly I awoke to a new dawn. I heard exclaimed,
>
>	"....call to contact a CDTV dealer near you."
>
>	...and out of the corner of my eye, at 2:45:32 pm EST, I saw a
>	CDTV logo and the 800-66-AMIGA phone number on TV!
>
>	This really made my day (among other things)!

Come on, you don't think you can pull a fast one that easily do you! :-)


--
 -------------------------------------------------------------
 Steven Biddle	     -	   Mail: sbiddle@aviate.welly.gen.nz
 Wellington, New Zealand.    OR: BIDDLE_S@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
 -------------------------------------------------------------
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:37:50 GMT

If it is that much demand, then I suspect you'll be able to mail order it,
or have your software vendor special order it.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: C= speaks!!! let's spread the words!!!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:51:49 GMT

In <1992Jul29.231420.20061@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>make making gate array chips almost trivial).  Just about the only chip that
>is really anything special in the A3000 is the Amber display enhancer chip.

Tell me _anything_ that is then special in a PC or Mac ? Nothing ? Right.
The most exciting thing in a PC is the motherboard chipset which is nothing
more complex than the gate arrays in the A3000. The most exciting thing
in a MacIIfx is the 6502-alike that handles keyboard I/O.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:21:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.064355.10824@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>I've seen more Lynx commercials (four recently, for the first time,
>co-ordinated with Batman Returns) than I've seen Amiga commercials,
>advertisements by CBM for it, in any publication or media outside of
>Amigaworld.

Yes many Atari commercials are showing!!  Please find HUGE 30 PAGE
ad included in magazines now!  It has Batman on cover and showing
many Atari stuff and compare specs with other companies.  Never  
have seen GIANT 30 PAGE ads from even IBM and Apple but now 
Atari is showing WORLD they have best machines like Lynx and
soon Falcons!!

 
>
>Which is pretty sad, considering CBM size versus Atari.
>
>Thom

Now Warner with many BILLIONS of cash is putting Atari name
all over TV, movie and magazine world!
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  PC's vs. mortals
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:45:25 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <191890@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
 >In article <1992Jul19.205748.18330@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
 >> 
 >> I don't agree. People will continue to make 286's and sell them for next to
 >> nothing. There are no overwhelming reasons to move to a 386 if you are 
 >> mainly interested in running DOS applications. Given complete systems for
 >> $200, why wouldn't they continue to make and sell them?
 >
 >All of the major players have stopped making 286 machines.  In fact, they
 >stopped making them last year.  

Ahem, please check your information database :-). Commodore is considered
a major player in this market here in Europe and *introduced* a new 286
model last year, a nice little slimline toy, totally suited for text
processing and other dumb bureau work. And there are also other suppliers
with 286 models. But yes, the 8088 was already abandoned, we'll see when
this will happen to the 286 in some future.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org