HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 09:06:45 EDT

In article <1992Sep1.213610.14277@newshost.lanl.gov> gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave) writes:
>In article <7232.2aa34153@dcatla.uucp>, cuegf@dcatla.uucp writes:
>|> In article <1992Aug26.194604.19032@equator.com>, jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes:
>
>|> > [post claiming Xanax only works for two weeks amidst a flurry of 
>      side-effects deleted...]
>|> 
>|> For those who read this post, the poster expresses views and cites
>|> literature commonly known as anti-psychiatry, a vocal, rabid 
>|> minority movement which regards all drugs in psychiatry as 
>|> dangerous and ignores any positive help persons may have received
>|> from medications.
>
>At the risk of stepping in where angels fear to tread, I have a couple
>of questions regarding the current climate in psychiatry.  My impression 
>from a few conversations I've had with psychiatrists is that the only 
>group as such within psychiatry that's leery of medicines is the psychoanalytic 
>crowd.  Is this the same as the "rabid minority movement"?  My understanding 
>is that the basis of their dislike for medication is the notion that the 
>success of psychoanalysis depends on one's ability to clearly see oneself
>and one's history, and that drugs impair that ability.  The psychoanalyst
>I know, however, says she'll prescribe drugs if it's warranted, but I 
>didn't feel comfortable pressing for details.  So, who's in this "rabid
>movement" and why?  
>
>My other question is about the future of psychiatry:  if, as Ed Francell 
>claims, more and more "mental illnesses" are being shown to be biologically, 
>i.e. neurologically, based, then what will psychiatrists' role be?  As far 
>as I can tell, psychiatrists would become caretakers for peoples' neuroses, 
>and psycho-pharmacologists on the side.  I hope I've overstated the case, 
>since of all the specialities in medicine, psychiatry is the most compelling 
>to me (a post-bac, pre-med type).  
>
>Thanks a lot,
>
>Graham
> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> Ed Francell
>
>-- 
>Graham Redgrave    |    --  I don't speak for the government, 
>gwr@life.lanl.gov  |        but I wish the government would speak for me ...  --


--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
From: sinkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Janne Sinkkonen)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: \*\* Lyme Discussion Group? \*\*
Date: 11 Sep 92 07:46:32 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki (Finland)

mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel) writes:

>   If AIDS has its  SCI.MED.AIDS  usenet board, why can't Lyme have a
>   SCI.MED.LYME  discussion group?
>   Anybody interested?
>   Anybody know how to get this started?

A mailing list is much easier and faster to set up than a new
newsgroup. Another easy choice is to set up an alt.* newsgroup.

See news.announce.newusers, especially an article named "How to create
new newsgroups".

Janne
From: gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Children of smokers
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:44:16 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <194dn9INNpjl@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes: 
|> I've been wondering for a while if children of smokers, who live in a
|> smokey environment, develop any sort of physical tolerance for or addiction
|> to the smoke.  Is there any way of telling?  Or is the nicotine, which I
|> gather is the addictive part, only absorbed by the smoker him/herself?

Here's my anecdote:  

Both my folks smoked 1-2 packs each a day for _years_.  We (my two younger brothers
and I) would have to sit for hours and hours in the smoking section of airplanes
on the way to see relatives so my parents could ease travelling tension.

None of the three of us brothers smokes.  (I've been told that my first word was
"Yuck!" in imitation of the adults around me who kept trying to stop me playing
in the ashtrays!  Sound gross?  Does to me ... ;-))

|> It seems strange than so many children take up smoking at an early age, and
|> I have wondered if maybe they're already addicted before they start. 

I am careful with alcohol, because I am quite capable of developing mild (so far)
addictions (although I suppose I don't know if they are real addictions) to food
and sweets, etc.  Granted you were talking physical addiction, but there certainly
doesn't seem to be evidence for that amongst my brothers and me.
 
|> Even if this is possible, would there be any way to test for it?  Are there
|> chemical tests for dependency on drugs, or is the diagnosis always made on
|> the obvious evidence?  For instance, could you take a blood sample and find
|> out I'm hooked on coffee?
|> 
|> Just curious...

Me too ...
 
|> Bonita Kale

-- 
Graham Redgrave    |    --  I don't speak for the government, 
gwr@life.lanl.gov  |        but I wish the government would speak for me ...  --
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle)
Subject: Re: Why the FDA raided Wright
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:33:29 GMT

drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand) writes:
> Aparently Dr. Wright was into more than just L-tryptophan.  An article
> I read (I appologize that I cannot remember the source) debunked the
> above rendition of the facts.  The facts included that the armed
> men where US marshalls (not the FDA) and the Dr. Wright had some amounts
> of illicit drugs.  The raid had nothing to do with L-tryptophan.

	Uh, no... I live in the area  where this happened and have 
seen several tv, raido, and news print articles about this. The 
FDA also will not answer any questions beyond the're      
press releases. The armed men were King County Police and Seriffs Dept.
along with FDA officers leading the raid.      
The King County Sheriff Dept, admitted on television
that they were very unhappy and embarassed about several things in the case. 
They were apperently told that they were to expect dangerous resistance and
that illegal drugs were being used, so they used their guns, they were
said that they never read the warrant and beleived what the FDA told them...
It was shown that part of the evidence that was obtained for the warrant
was spoiled injectables that were discarded in a trash 
dumpster; apprently the courts were told that these were being used on people.
	The 'illegal' drugs that were claimed by the FDA were amoung ohter
things  were 'preserative-free' or 'contaminate-free' injectable nutrients that 
were apperently German made, these products  were used because the
patients were intolarent to other products due to allergic reactions
in those that had preseratives, no source of a simular product was available
from US manufactuers.     
	 
  	A source that will have alot of information and articles is
Citizens For Health       Phone  206 922.2457 
P.O. Box 368              FAX    206 922.7583    
Tacoma, WA 98401	
	Also see 'Federal Register' 27 November 1991 for an outline
of FDA proposal to restrict nutritional or alternative treatments. 
	I also have a few articles on this matter (they are older though)
but I can e-mail what I have to any request..

--
 delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenous.
Hey I'm just a first year political science student...   
 
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:14:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Mark Kline is once more guilty of muddy thinking and careless reading
by posting a message which suggests that I offered the "headache cure"
as a reason to believe what he calls "the NLP hocus pocus."

Kline would probably have been in the vanguard of those attacking any
new therapy he wasn't comfortable with. Fortunately, there are many
who have been helped (and quickly and inexpensively) by NLP, as there
have by Milton Erickson M.D.(one of the origin points of some NLP
techniques and a strong supporter). Kline (and some others) write
about it here as if it were some "nut case" therapy that came out of
the sky. It was modeled after, and has the strongest support from
Virginia Satir, one of the most gifted and successful therapists of
the late 20th century, and also modeled after the work of Fritz Perls,
another gifted therapist and the founder of Gestalt Therapy.  The
preface to the first NLP book "The Structure of Magic" was written by
Gregory Bateson, whose work on communications and linguistics also
strongly influenced NLP.

I can understand why those in training or practice in therapeutic
techniques that take many months or years and still produce no
progress in some kinds of patients would resent a technique which
helps some of them quickly and cheaply but some of the comments here
by those who should know better are appalling.

None of the above is intended to prove anything, but given some
of the posts here by a few, I sense a lynch mob forming without any
rational basis in fact. Maybe some of the name-callers and snide
remarkers should take a nice dose of Xanax and jump into a soothing
hot tub. :-)
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Tyroid and HMO
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:20:12 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1685CE3D5.M20614@mwvm.mitre.org> M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard) writes:

>> Please e-mail me directly if you have an
>>input.
> 
>Many readers of sci.med can't be bothered doing anything other than
>posting to sci.med.  Why don't you watch the traffic on sci.med for
>at least a week?
> 

Amen.  For me to email requires leaving rn because the "r" key
just hangs the program.  I might do that for someone with a
sick kid, but for most queries, if they don't want to share
my answer with the rest of the group, then they can miss it.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Risk Age
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:28:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA


Could someone please email me information on "risk age" and the statistical
tables used?  I read a Reader's Digest article on it, and it looks like
something I could use for something I am doing.


James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@rod.mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
--
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@rod.mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Rising health care costs. Was: Mercury in fillings
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:57:40 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <Bu30sH.1C6@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>
>Perhaps, but it's still ludicrous for anyone (even the AMA) to pretend
>that malpractice litigation is the main cause for the rising cost
>of medical care.
>
Where did the AMA say that?  I must have missed it.
>
>One more question:  Would you suggest that malpractice claims be
>banned altogether?  Or, are you proposing that they be limited in
>some way. [please specify]
>
We could do it the way the UK, Germany, France, Canada, Scandanavia,
etc. do it (pick any one of them).  You seem to love the way they
do medical care, but why not also adopt the way they handle malpractice
suits?  I'll bet you that if we do adopt the medical system of 
any one of these it won't be long until we also have malpractice limitations.

In most of these countries, a malpractice claim is heard by a board
which includes lawyers, doctors, other experts, and a judge.  The
victim gets their medical expenses covered and compensation for not
being able to work, or whatever.  They don't get rich, though.  Neither
do their lawyers.  They can then go to court if they don't like the
settlement, but they will almost always lose if they do.  In these
countries, even if it isn't malpractice, the board can also see
to it that their expenses are covered and their disability is handled
within the system, which is a lot better than we do here.  The board
can also discipline doctors who really did do malpractice, with more
than making their insurance company raise their rates, which is not
really a very effective discipline.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: MIGRAINE
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:22:48 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <Btwyy4.DIL@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, popetz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Clinton C. Popetz) writes:
> Don.Hayes@f914.n714.z3.fidonet.org (Don Hayes) writes:
> 
>>Are there any migraine sufferers out there?? In trying to get a better 
>>understanding of my own affliction I'd be interested in your experiences so 
>>perhaps I can stop my attacks.
> 
> 
> Well, there are the lists of foods that trigger migraines.  After going through
> the huge ordeal of testing for hundreds of different possibilities, and having
> the doctor finally shrug his shoulders and say "it must be migraines.  there is
> little that can help you."  I started reading up and figuring out what foods
> affected me badly.
> 
> Chocolate and caffeine on an empty stomach are bad.  
> 

For me, ANY caffeine is bad.  I've had to avoid it very strictly.  

Sue

> Other than that, all I have is guesswork.
From: sean+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean McLinden)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Politics and sci.med (was: unc health care study)
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:11:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gegns2u00WBOA1NoQN
	<16438@pitt.UUCP>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>In article <natndhj.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David
Sternlight)
> writes:
>>
>>I apologize to Banks for McLinden's rude behavior to the extent that
>>McLinden's quoting of a cancelled post of mine gave offense.
>>
>I'm far to thick skinned to be offended by such a mild flame.
>All in good fun.

Excuse me? *You* are apologizing for the fact that I quoted your posting
of some extremely ignorant and inflammatory remarks by labelling that
*I* was rude??!

What you post, here, is fair game. The fact that you cancelled it (unbeknownst
to me), does not transfer the reponsibility for your insulting behavior to me.

Maybe you should think before you post and then you might find it unnecessary
to cancel such postings.

Sean
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Victims; was: Re: Xanax
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 05:08:17 GMT

cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

| You know, there's something oddly pathological about this insistence that

Well, some people label anything they find "odd" pathological.
-- 

"You can put lipstick on a hog, and call it 'Monique', but it's still a pig."

-- Ann Richards, the wildly popular, Harley Riding Governor of Texas
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: floaters
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:02:54 GMT

I've often wondered this...what exactly causes floaters to develop in the
eye?  I've often heard them described as "clumps of stuff" in the vitreous.
But how do they get in there? :-)   Or is it that the vitreous gel itself
solidifies into little clumps? 

Do they form in more than one way?  For instance, the ones I've always had
have been little black "specks," whereas a friend of mine claims to have
some big ones that appear almost as little clouds that pick up glare sometimes.
I assume this has something to do with their proximity to the retina?

I've always found it interesting how some people get floaters very early
on in life (I remember having them when I was 12 or thereabouts), and some
people don't get them until later.  Is there any significant reason as to
why this is?


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Politics and sci.med (was: unc health care study)
Organization: WP Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:22:03 GMT


Someone wrote:
>>>As a relative newcomer here, I found a reasonable message of mine
>>>flamed by Gordon Banks. Now I see that in response to another's
>>>temperately phrased message he uses language like "soapbox" and "this
>>>crap"?

From article <16423@pitt.UUCP>, by geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks):
> I admit to being combative, but I perceive such is needed
> sometimes to counter the drivel that gets posted by some
> people around here.

It'd be nice if you could learn to share facts and reasons with 
other posters without the flames, Gordon.  If you're going to
pontificate about "drivel", however, try not to forget the 
opinionated crap that you yourself frequently post on topics that 
appear to lie outside your field of expertise such as law, 
automotive engineering, political science, etc.

Incidentally, you posted the following article on 04/07/90:

=================================================================
This has gone too far.  I propose that all postings on ad hominem 
arguments and lawyers be banned from sci.med and confined to 
misc.legal.  I think everyone has heard enough, and I'd like to 
get back to talking about medical questions rather than 
rhetorical and legal ones.  I won't be replying to any more 
lawyer postings here, nor making them myself.  If I forget, 
please remind me in the strongest terms.  
=================================================================

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Politics and sci.med (was: unc health care study)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:16:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Steve Dyer's latest message says more about him out of his own mouth
than I could possibly do, so there's no need for more than this
one-sentence response to it.

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: Equator Technologies, Inc., Seattle, WA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:54:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.152258.28377@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>
>You know, there's something oddly pathological about this insistence that
>"parental abuse" is the source of all mental illness. It's as though there
>were a vast conspiracy of parents everywhere to abuse their children--and
>an even vaster conspiracy to cover up this "abuse". Yes, even the
>psychiatric profession is in the service of this evil conspiracy--nay, one
>can see that they are the very high priests of this cult of abuse and
>denial. 
>

Several people have raised this "hidden conspiracy" issue.  I have not
suggested it.  Rather, the process arises within the individual.  Most
people who've grown up in our culture have experienced the abuse I'm
talking about, the helping professions included.  

I don't think that much is being furthered by having this conversation 
on sci.med, however.  Read Alice Miller, "For Your Own Good:  Hidden
Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence."  Or let's do it
by email.

-- 
- - -
John Setel O'Donnell                      jod@equator.com
Equator Technologies, Inc.                206-328-6544 voice/fax
Seattle, WA                               Read everything by Alice Miller.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Prevalence of Hyperobesity
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:48:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.143242.11552@spdcc.com>
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
 
>In article <1992Sep15.123252.15858@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:
>>>>I've mentioned a number of studies in Adiposity 101 which show
>>>>the obese generally eat the same or less than normals.
>>>
>>>So tell us, Chuck: what do you eat in a day?  Have you ever made a food
>>>diary?  You don't really expect me to believe you when you say that you
>>>eat no more than a 150 lb. man.  If you did, you'd lose weight, or in
>>>your words, "starve" <snort>, because it costs energy to carry all that
>>>weight around.
>>
>>Steve, what's come over you?  You usually make informative postings.  Why then
>>this snively personal attack which is completely devoid of useful information,
>>not to mention unprofessional?
>
>Why do you consider this a personal attack?  I'll show you mine if
>you show me yours.  You're making an really amazingly outrageous
>assertion which defies thermodynamics.  I'm asking you to back it
>up with your own daily experience.  Or are you an exception to "the
>obese" in that you actually eat more?
>
>>>Earlier, you have quoted studies that obese eat no more _per pound of body
>>>mass_, which is a really quite different.
>>        In distinction to the commonly accepted stereotype,
>>        research shows that the obese do not eat more per pound
>>        than their lean counterparts.
 
I think Chuck means to say that fat people eat proportionately the same
as thinner people, say (pulling a number out of a silk top hat), 16
calories/pound (or about 7 and a half calories/kg) a day.  So, Chuck,
if you weigh 300 lbs (about 136 kg), you'd eat TWICE AS MUCH as a 150-lb
person.  However, that intake will *maintain* your weight!  If you want to
lose weight, eat less!
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Phobias, NLP, etc (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:40:22 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <p8yn_z_.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Steve Dyer posts an obscene message. I see that everything I've been
>told about him via e-mail is true.

Hmm, I think I will post an obscene message. That way, you will
know that everything you have heard about me is true. Am I missing
something, or do you jump to conclusions? 

>Steve, many know that you have a vile mind and a viler mouth. The
>only reason you're tolerated around here is because you sometimes
>have useful information.

Viler. Hmm. I prefer "vole". As in: "You have a vole mind and a
volar mouth". Or maybe veal....

 -km