From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:35:48 CST

In article <1gafdpINNhp4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> lance@helios.UCSC.EDU (Lance Bresee) writes:
>
>I've kept out of this for a long time, but I've got to reply.
>I graduated from our "inferior" public school system, and in
>my last two years, I goofed off to the point that I barely managed
>to graduate with a 1.1 GPA.  In spite of this "inferior" showing
>in an "inferior" system, I graduated able to balance my checkbook,
>enroll in college algebra and get an A, diagram sentences and
>logically evaluate the best way to write a complex idea, and LEARN
>anything I didn't already know.  

Um, I hate to break this to you, but you _should_ have been able to balance
a checkbook and diagram sentences when you graduated from ELEMENTARY
school.  Better late than never that you enrolled in college algebra... a lot of
people in this newsgroup took algebra is 7th or 8th grade.  Most people
here probably took calculus (if not some higher level course) their first
semester at college.  Almost everybody in this world has the capacity to
learn things they don't already know, but the length of time that it takes
them to learn a given subject has a lot to do with the educational system
they were brought up in, their own interest in the subject, and their own
natural abilities to learn.

>Better scores on standardized tests
>reveal that the student has memorized more answers, NOT that the 
>student has learned how to LEARN something NEW, like the sorts of
>things you are required to LEARN on your job because NO school
>teaches you technology which hasn't been developed yet!

Better scores on standardized tests do not reveal that a student has
memorized more answers.  Yes, standardized tests are not a lithmus test of
what you know or your ability to learn, but tests such as the SAT show a
VERY strong correlation between your scores and how well you'll do in
college.  They'll always be people who do poorly on stadardized test but
are still highly intelligent and will do just fine in the world -- the
thing we're looking for is _trend_, here.  Really... do you think a HS
senior who fails a 6th grade level stadardized math exam should be a math major?
I would hope not, unless there are a LOT of extenuating circumstances.

>There is NOTHING wrong with our system of public education.

Sorry, I don't agree.  I'm not willing to make comparisons between our
system and others, because I don't know enough about the others.  But,
there are lots of improvements I could recommend in our current system.
(I will make the comment that, even though the Japanese appear to be better
educated then we are, it does NOT sound like a fun place to grow up in!)

>There may well be something wrong with our PUBLIC, when they
>look for scapegoats like the public education system rather
>than accept and respond to their own culpability for the 
>problems of our society.

The public (which includes you and me) has their own problems separate from
our educational system.  Wanting a well educated society is not one of
them.  The educational system may or may not contribute to our social
problems, but it most definitely has an effect on our economic problems.

						---Joel Kolstad