HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Barriers Remain, Out or Not
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 08:11:38 GMT


In article <18436@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen
Rowley) writes:


>In the USA that you and I grew up in, queers were marginally
>tolerated in jobs like hairdresser, interior decorator, shoe
>salesman.  etc.  The concept of an out of the closet queer
>holding a position of *respect* was out of the question.
>Today, it is much different, and many of us have broken
>through those barriers.

It's my impression that the situation has changed *much*
less than you seem to claim here.  In the population at
large, we are still hated by a large majority.  If that has
changed in our favor by a few percent in the past generation
(I believe it has), all to the good.  But irrespective of
the absolute numbers, it's *far* from good enough.  Many of
us have broken through *some* of the barriers, that is
certainly true.  But by far the majority of us are still
closeted; too much is still stacked against our even coming
out, let alone being free of gross discrimination in
whatever social and political contexts we choose to be
active in.  And even the more out among us face huge,
systemic barriers.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: Bill Clinton (Was: Re: Nancy Reagan [eeeeek!])
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:07:54 CST

In article <1993Jan23.141631.4936@macc.wisc.edu>
 anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I rather liked the Clinton open house the other day.  I
>think Clinton is a real person, whatever else one can say
>about him.  I hope he manages to remain one (it ain't easy,
>I'm sure) in that zoo.  Sure is a hell of a contrast; I
>can't think of one other president in our century who was
>anything like so real as Clinton.

There are some people who have a very particular personality
trait:  when they are with you, they are completely with you.
Their minds seem to be nowhere else, not on where they need to be,
and not on their own troubles.  They stare you in
the eye and seem to melt into you.  They give you their
absolute attention.  This is very flattering, of course,
although it always seems to promise more than it can
deliver.

I have known the occasional gay man like this, and have
seen many folks believe that the attention given them
was unique.  Unwarranted jealousies have resulted.

One of my brothers can be like this.  He opens his big
pale eyes, nods sympathetically, gives the impression
of preternatural empathy.  People read into him whatever
it is they are looking for.

My sister-in-law-to-be shows signs of this.  She lives for
the moment and legitimately enjoys and likes whoever she is
with.  She seems to mesh well with the brother of mine
she is engaged to (not the one mentioned above), because this
particular brother lives entirely in worry about where he
will be next.

These people (like my brother, like my sister-in-law-to-be, like
Bill Clinton) are often late for appointments, because where they
are now, and who they are with now is the most important thing
in the world.  Much more important than where they will be
in ten minutes and who they will be with then.  Until it is
ten minutes later, and the universe shifts.

Bill Clinton seems to be one of these people.  The most
one-of-these-people I have ever observed, although with
one notable exception I have only observed him on film.
Watch him when he talks with people -- as he did at the
open house:  he makes people feel that he cares about
them completely.  As I am sure that he does.  At that
moment.  This is why everyone in the state of Arkansas
is an FOB (friend of Bill's) -- if they have encountered
him in person, they have felt this intensity.

When BIll Clinton walked by my band at the Inaugural, he was
busy greeting folks on the other side of the street -- so much
so that it appeared as if he did not even hear our playing
until Hillary (who must be used to this by now) tapped
his shoulder (a couple of times) to get his attention to us.
And then he walked over, and he was with us.  And nowhere else.

Watch for this trait.  It is not insincerity.  It is the reverse.
But watch, as well, for the implied promises of this sort
of attention.

Just one man's impression,

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com
From: roger@otago.ac.nz (Roger Grauwmeijer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:13:43 GMT
Organization: KiwiFruits - NZ Corporate Queers

In article <1jnfmlINNojb@spim.mti.sgi.com>, dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> In article <brsmith.727658272@duncan>, brsmith@duncan.cs.umn.edu (Brian R. Smith) writes:
> 
> |> ever logged into, and the first I administrated.  VMS?  What's that?  I
> |> had Mt. Xinu 4.3BSD with NFS and *source*, and I *liked* it...
> 
> Well, when I was a kid, you had to boot the machine by flipping switches
> on the front.

Not forgetting the paper tape secondary bootstrap required.

Rog.
-- 
      ____
100%  \  / Roger Grauwmeijer                       Internet: roger@otago.ac.nz
QUEER  \/  B0 f-- t+ w c g(+) k(-) s+ e: h- p!              Ph: +64 3 479 8560
Operations Controller, Computing Services Centre           Fax: +64 3 479 8577
University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Dunedin, N.Z.             AH: +64 3 474 0352
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`You are perfect, you are sheer, If you are a redhead queer' - Erasure (No GDM)
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Another reason?  CO 2
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:04:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1993Jan25.160427.13532
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR


Read in the Jan.16th Denver Post that the Attorney Generals
office of Colorado was working throught the three day weekend to 
get the injunction to CO 2 into the court of Appeals.  

I understand that their duty may bind them to follow through on
the Appeal, but I cannot believe that they had to work through
the weekend and on Martin Luther Kings Holiday!

Remember, the Attorney General is a part of the Colorado Government
and those silly little SALES TAXES you pay in Denver, Aspen, Vail
and Boulder goes to the government of Colorado.  Seems that they are
just a tad enthusiastic to get this thing to the Appeals Court.  Does
it bug anyone the this same Attorney General has not gone to the Appeals
Court to get Measure 2 Appealed for the Homosexuals it is going to affect.
You know those Gays who are also the people of Colorado!

Bil Snodgrass III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: crombie@iisat.alt.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine: Queer Kardassians?
Organization: Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:43:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.102752.10267@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I've heard rumours, though, that the doctor character is going to be
> our gay character on the show. I certainly hope it's not true - his
> character is quite revolting. I'd rather he was killed in a freak
> human waste expulsion device accident.

Geez, I thought the doctor was kinda cute. Oh naive, sure. But who says
that can't be charming bytimes?


-- 
Kevin Crombie		Public Access Unix
UUCP:  {dalcs,ulowell}!iisat!crombie
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Red-haired Declans
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:04:00 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue


 ,
Pedant McManus:

>richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>>Eamonn McManus writes:
>>>tall yummy red-haired young thing 
>>Oxymoron fault.
>I think you mean "pleonasm", Richard.  Otherwise, fuck off.

1. (tall yummy red-haired young) (thing) = oxymoron
2. tall yummy red-haired young thing = pleonasm

`E' for effort, Mr McManus.  Now, enough of this shrill banter.  How's
Alex?
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
From: 00bbharris@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Clue phone for William J. Clinton
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:04:42 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

A hint to Bill Clinton and the army-thingy...
Hello, William....
You run the army
the army does not run you..
Remember the army's reaction to desegregation of the army
Remember the fuss?
How hard is it to find a white guy and a black guy chatting in the barracks?
Not too hard...
Hmmmm....
Clue phone for the President...
Line 2.
brandon
From: LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Black Skiers Refuse to Boycott (Rocky Mountain News article)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 13:50:26 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


The following is from _Rocky Mountain News_ (Sat, Jan 16, 1993), page 28.  

Article is reprinted here without permission:                   
                                   
==========================================================================

"Black skiers won't boycott Colorado:  Brotherhood plans to
 open office at Copper Mountain"

by Robert Jackson


   A national black ski organization will not boycott Colorado because
of Amendment 2, and instead will announce plans to open a satellite
office in Copper Mountain next year and eventually move its national office
to Colorado.

   The executive committee of the National Brotherhood of Skiers Inc.
made the decision Thursday, opening day of its 20th Anniversary Summit
in Vail, where nearly 6,000 members are expected to participate throughout
the week.  The formal announcement of the Copper Mountain office is
expected on Sunday.

   For every 1,000 black skiers who attend an NBS summit, an estimated
$1 million is generated, said spokesman Bob Bradshaw.

   NBS has 75 ski clubs in 62 cities and 22 states with a membership
of more than 14,000, Bradshaw said.

   "Colorado has been good to us," said Bradshaw.  "That's why we are 
moving an office here and are discussing relocating our national office 
here.  We see no reason to boycott.  If anything, we feel that it would
be appropriate to selectively boycott those cities that voted for
Amendment 2."

   Bradshaw said NBS is a non-profit organization and is required by law
to maintain a non-political posture.

   "The NBS is particularly sensitive to the significance of the issues
raised by the Colorado vote, as they relate to the ongoing struggle of
African-American people," Bradshaw said.  "However, the recent elections
took place one year after the NBS had signed and financially committed to 
a contract with Vail/Beaver Creek Resort."

   He said with more than 3,5000 people registered in advance, it was
impractical for the organization to choose another location.

   "Who would benefit?"  he asked.  "Not our members or the youngsters
in our National Youth Program.  It's at these events where we raise money
for them.  Vail would be the benefactor because our people have paid in
advance."

   "As always, we respect the right of free people in a democratic society
to pursue their separate or collective destiny," he said.

   NBS was founded at Aspen in 1973.  The group held summits in Colorado
in 1981, 1989, and 1992.

-end of article-
==========================================================================


Xref: sparky soc.motss:57957 alt.sex.motss:2216
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:24:50 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1993Jan22.031303.10692@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.190006.12270@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>Most be a story about trolls.  There is a whole generation of
>>20-something computer hackers that have never seen a VAX.
>
>then there are the computer hackers like me, who are barely 20 now,
>and used to administrate a VAX, and liked it.

"Administrate"?  Wash your fingers.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Sometimes you wake up.  Sometimes the fall kills you.  And sometimes, when
you fall, you fly."                                                -- N. Gaiman
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth07.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:33:38 GMT

viejones@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael A. Jones) writes:

>In article <=5j3jfh@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes...
>>rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>Yesterday's (01/20/93 -- Inauguration Day) New York Times
>>>ran this editorial, reprinted here without permission...
>> 
>>>Mr. Clinton needs to proceed with his original plan to issue
>>>an executive order.  He could lift the ban on homosexuals
>>>immediately while granting the military time to devise new
>>>policies, if needed, governing housing, gay social clubs,
>>>dependents' benefits and other issues.
>> 
>>Cool beans! But I'm STILL curious about whether the Executive Order will cover
>>anything else but the Armed Forces? I mean, the FBI and CIA still discriminate,
>>don't they?
>> 

>As does the State Department I think?

Well, I guess it depends. There is apparently a sexual orientation nondiscrimina
tion clause in Federal Civil Service, surely that accounts for most of the
Diplomatic Corps? But this clause does NOT apply to armed services or law
enforcement [FBI/CIA].

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
0.5% of all same-sex marriages in Denmark end in divorce: Orange County _Blade_
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58517 soc.bi:19229
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:59:13 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram) writes:
>>AND you MUST pour the milk BEFORE the tea, or you are REALLY a heathen!
>
>No no no no no... Milk In First is so vulgar...  Milkless tea is
>quite acceptable.  You must have been talking to members of the
>Lower Classes.

One begs to differ with the honourable gentleman.  One was born, bred
and buttered with distinctly anti-non-U pretentions, and one will be a
prelactator until one passes over.

That having been said, the whole matter is rendered moot should one
indulge in the consumption habits of the newly elevated (Yippies, or
whatever they call that sort).  Then, one is obliged to purchase teas of
which the commonfolk have never heard; in the main, these beverages are
properly taken in an alactated fashion.

hugs, with little finger raised
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Date: 20 Jan 93 19:50:56 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <1jhibuINNrs6@meaddata.meaddata.com>, by ptb@meaddata.com (Patrick Bell):

# I have a challenge for all who argue the minimal risk of HIV infection from
# cock sucking:

# If you knew you were HIV- and you knew your sex partner (lover, fuck buddy,
# tearoom trick, whatever) was HIV+ and he wanted you to suck his cock w/o
# a condom, would you?

# Now add a twist, if his cock was dripping pre-cum, would you?

# If you answered no to either of these questions, then why take the same
# risk with someone about whom you don't know their HIV status?

Denial?
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Unsafe/safe,Unsafer/safer,Unsafest/safest
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:18:59 GMT

In article <brsmith.727834695@duncan> brsmith@duncan.cs.umn.edu  
(Brian R. Smith) writes:
} Who wants to join?
*shoots his hand far up in the air*

Me!

Can I be the Parliamentarian (bouncer)?

Donald
From: syed@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Burhan Syed)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: promiscuity
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 05:13:16 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

> Just how many soc.motss folks have had 3 partners or less? How many
> hetero-folk? Why doesn't somebody just do a survey?

^
|_____ 
In article <73520@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:


oops, kind of screwed that up.. annyways, I've only had one partner in 
the last 2 years or so.
(2 people total.)

 :                         _____                _____
                          |_____)              (____
                          |_____) u r h a n   ______) y e d
 
                             syed@ERSYS.edmonton.ab.ca
                                +1 (403) 430-9781
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Key West, the TV show
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:08:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.034831.21438@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kekims@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.E. Kindler ) writes:

>	This new show on FOX seems to have to strong gay characters. I have
>to admit I walked into the middle of the most recent episode though and
>missed a lot. 

Seems like you saw the crucial scenes though!

>Denise Crosby's character had just taken on her position as
>mayor after winning office by exposing her opponents homosexuality(?).

Yes.  (He was played by Nicholas Surovy in the season opener.)  While
carefully professing to find "nothing wrong with it," she did raise his
homosexuality in a public debate, and he didn't try to hide it.  This
was enough, apparently, to swing the vote her way.

>In the staff meeting she finds out more then half her staff is gay and
>is confronted by one of the office works who later saves her butt by
>dealing with a rather nasty fellow.

Both scenes were wonderful, largely because of Anthony Mapa's enacting
of the gay guy.  First he gets on her case at the staff meeting about
the dirty way she unseated her predecessor ("You *said* you wanted us to
be honest with you; or was that just talk?").  Then after saying that of
course it's his job to do his best for whoever's in office he adds, "I'm
homosexual myself; I'm also Civil Service and you can't fire me."  And
when the mayor responds, "How, er, nice; is anyone else here, er,
differently sexualized?" over half the hands in the room go up.  She
manages to stammer out "Is this what they call Karma?" and Mapa nods
back with a big grin.

The later scene was also a grin, as Mapa dealt with the character who
was insinuating that he's reveal "unpleasant things" about the mayor if
she didn't play ball.  And the kid, hitherto standing silently by like a
good little aide, bursts out with "Oh puh-leez!  What are you going to
reveal -- that she's an alcoholic?" (Which we know she is.)  "YAWN."  He
has an in-your-face manner that I enjoy immensely.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
From: carson@cs.columbia.edu (Carson A. Gaspar)
Subject: Mailing bricks, etc. (Was: Re: Fighting fundies)
Keywords: fundamentalists, struggle, discrimination
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:33:23 GMT

Well, you _used_ to be able to attach postage-paid cards to bricks,
etc. and mail them, but in recent years new regulations have been put
into effect that prevent that from working.  The post office no longer
has to deliver such items.

On the other hand, my favorite technique is to take all of those
postage-paid cards, and put them in the mail -- completely blank.
They receive them in the pristene condition (not counting the USPS) in
which they were delivered.  This is (as far as I know - 
#include <stddisclaimer.h>) legal and costs them postage and sorting
time.  Why should _I_ deal with recycling all those cards - let _them_
do it!

While making them pay for bricks may be a nice thought, several
thousand blanks cards will work just as well, and it's much easier to
do.

-- 
Carson Gaspar             Arkham in '98, A WorldCon Bid with Real Soul - YOURS!
carson@cs.columbia.edu               Choirmaster of the Rogue Filkers of Arkham
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brsmith@duncan.cs.umn.edu (Brian R. Smith)
Subject: motssketeer's at USENIX?
Keywords: motss, social interaction, whatever
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:32:37 GMT

I've been lurking around here lately, waiting for this to come up.
Apparently it hasn't yet (or I missed it, and it has passed the week of
articles we have in our news spool), so I'll push the buttons myself...

Are there any (or would you like there to be any) public motss gatherings
(besides the GBLIC BOF) at the Winter USENIX?

Dinner/brunches would be fun.  I imagine going to San Diego tourist traps
with a whole horde of homos would be a blast.  Other suggestions would be
appreciated; I'm easily led.  (Often astray.)

Or would the GBLIC BOF lead naturally to these things, and I should just
lie back and relax?  I'm a USENIX virgin, so I don't know what to expect.

(And do other people find themselves consistently spelling "USENIX" as
"UNISEX"?  Maybe it's a subliminal pun.)

Take care,
--
Brian
brsmith@cs.umn.edu