From: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Subject: Re: BM-RJB issue (more developments)
Summary: don't know any history, don't know much mythology
Reply-To: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Organization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Munich
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:34:32 GMT

In article <BvvHn0.I4o@ucunix.san.uc.edu> bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.235205.19326@cs.wayne.edu> uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:

As Bapa Rao has pointed out, Raj Bhatnagar's invocation of mythology
is, as Spock would say, fascinating.  I agree with Bapa Rao that the
VHP/BJP seem to know precious little history.  But then, what is
history when compared to mythology in revealing the nature, desires
and values of humans?

> The objective for which VHP/BJP have started the RJB movement
> is not limited to the construction of the temple alone. The
> much wider objective is to fight off and eliminate the opposition 
> to the renaissance of the Indian-civilazational identity for India.
> RJB in this fight is as symbolic as the ceremonial horse of an 
> "Ashvamedha Yagna." Any challenger to RJB is being faught off. And
> successful construction of RJB at the original site can be easily
> equated with the successful return of the cerermonial horse. After
> RJB construction, very little, if any, opposition will be left to the
> Hindutva being the name of India's national identity and ethos.

If the VHP/BJP liken the proposed RJB temple as the ceremonial horse,
then I must say that they also know very little about ancient Hindu
customs and mythology.  For, may I remind you, after its return the
ceremonial horse of the Ashvamedha Yagna is sacrificed.  Which means
that after the temple is constructed, and VHP/BJP have achieved their
political objectives of Bharatising Indian society and polity, they
surely must raze that extravagant edifice (*) to the ground.  

*  (If the printed illustrations of the proposed temple that VHP volunteers
stuff at you are any indication, then it is ugly -- kind of like a
vinyl-coated Birla mandir topped with a multi-layer wedding cake with pink 
icing.  Question:  is the UP government paying for any part of it, with
taxpayer's money?)

> Another parallel to this can be seen in Ramayana itself. If freedom
> for Seeta was the only objective of Ram, she could have been kidnapped
> by Hanuman and brought back from Lanka. He had delivered the Ram's ring
> to her afterall. But freedom for Seeta was to be accompanied by the
> destruction of Ravana's empire - the forces which perpetrated the crime.

If the RJB temple is like Seeta, then a few years down the road, the
VHP will disown the temple, which will after a while be swallowed up
by Mother Earth.  Perhaps that already happened earlier....

Wonder who the traitorous Vibheeshan will be in Raj's picture, and who will 
be Kumbhakaran, who according to the legend knew Ravana was wrong,
but nevertheless was compelled by duty and loyalty to stand by him.
And what will be the Swarna Lanka that is to be burnt?  Our democratic
and constitutional basis as a nation?  BTW, Ramachandra Gandhi has an
article in a recent India Today that talks of VHP shutting Seeta out
of her "rasoi".  

> Also in Mahabharata, Krishna, with all his Maya could have easily gotten 
> rid of Duryodhana, but his objective was to bring into battle all those
> forces that had made possible and supported Duryodhan's 
> philosophy (Bhishma included), and seek their destruction in the war.

Mahabharata is a bad parallel for a "just cause" -- it's basically a case of 
breaking all rules to win at all costs.  But who are the Abhimanyus and other 
worthies you will sacrifice?

> So, VHP could have constructed the temple in many other ways, but its
> objective is to bring into the political battlefield all those forces
> that are opposed to the renaissance of the Indian-civilizational identity
> and seek their political death. 

And then leave India in the dark ages of Kali Yuga...  And I was so
naive to think that the survivor and successor of the Vamsha was Parikshit --
which means one who has gone through his trials and tribulations, and has
learnt...

> They seem to be succeding splendidly in this battle so far. The irony is
> that there are very few who realize this whole wider dimension of the
> RJB struggle. RJB is Ramayan's Seeta; Babri Structure is Mahabharat's
> Duryodhan, and the currently rampant, vote-bank guided, pseudo-secularism
> is the Ravana or the greed of the Kauravas. I think the current anti-VHP/BJP
> political forces in India are just too weak (from a long term perspective)
> to offer any sustained opposition to the tide that VHP/BJP have 
> unleashed in the arena of Indian politics. The main reason is that all the
> non-VHP/BJP political forces in today's India are nothing but edifices 
> created for acheiving the goals of personal ambitions and gratifications.

Various people in (or sympathising with) the RSS, VHP, BJP  have been
telling us that once we create the new Bharatiya, proud of his heritage
of ancient India (Bharat),  it is then a small step away from India
regaining its proud place in the world, reasserting itself as a power.
(e.g. an article some weeks ago by Indu from NCR).

This view is about as naive as those of the Russians who believed that
they'd be prosperous the momen they got rid of communism, or the Germans
who thought the troubles of unification would pass in a few months. 
(This is taking a charitable, indulgent view).  Well, sorry, things don't
happen like that.  You can get armies to march on pride but you can't
create wealth, happiness or peace.  [ Nietzsche wrote about the dangers
of pride (pride of this kind, not in the sense of arrogance), and the
delusions and dishonesty with oneself that it engenders. ]

The scary part is that almost exactly the same ideas, language, imagery was
employed by the Nazis 60 years ago -- if we get rid of Jews and gays and 
communists (which then included such liberals as Willy Brandt, a great hero of 
our times) and Gypsies and artists and other such degenerates -- we'll be a 
great nation.  And by Mussolini (harking back to the glories of ancient Rome).

>> If the temple is built BJP gets the credit.  Temple not built ? --
>> BJP will sacrifice their UP govt and turn mercenary. Thinking of having  RJB-BM complex
>> permanently closed?-- hindu vote will never come back to Congress.
>> 
>> You see the dilemma, the brains in congress face...  ???
>> 
>> I feel war in kashmir will be imminent if VHP goes ahead with temple
>> building on oct 31st.  Congress needs a diversion desperately.  Bofors
>> HM are very small scale diversions...  Watch PVNR do something drastic...
> 
> 
> In my view Kashmir is going to boil as long as VHP/BJP's strength is being
> challenged by the pseudo-secularists in India. Once in power at the center,
> I think BJP will forcefully deny Islam-based secession of any part of the
> country, no matter how harsh the measures it may have to take. 

Perhaps a "final solution"?  Or something like the Ustashe did during WWII
in Croatia, "cleaning out" the Serbs?  See what became of that.

> If PVN escalates anything on Kashmir front, he will have to counter
> the Arjun Singhs of the Congress first. He doesn't seem to be that
> strong within Congress right now. But I hope he takes strong measures
> wrt kashmir and Pak's involvement in it. I would loike to see those
> asap rather than worrying about which political party in India gets
> credit for such initiatives.

Are there any divisions between PV and Arjun Singh or anyone else on
the Kashmir issue?  I don't see why they can't both work on Kashmir
while sparring for control within the party.

--
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