HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fred@nscf.org (Fred Fenimore)
Subject: NSF and Shortages of Science and Mathematics
Organization: National Science Center Foundation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:41:28 GMT

I recently have seen some posts about the NSF report predicting a
shortage of scientists being discredited.  Could someone please email me
some references?  Even newspaper articles would be a good starting
place.  Any help given would be greatly appreciated.


Fred Fenimore
 /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 | Fred Fenimore	   |						    |
 | National Science Center | Usenet: fred@galois.nscf.org    		    |
 | P.O. Box 15577	   | Phone : (706) 868-3622			    |
 | Augusta, Ga 30919-1577  | Fax   : (706) 868-6088			    |
 |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | "ignorance is the mother of eduational innovation"    --- H. Brody 	    |
 \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
 
-- 
 /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 | Fred Fenimore	   |						    |
 | National Science Center | Usenet: fred@galois.nscf.org    		    |
 | P.O. Box 15577	   | Phone : (706) 868-3622			    |
From: Ann.Feeney@launchpad.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Dale-Chall Readability formula software?
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:44:52 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

Can anyone tell me where I might find a program that runns the Dale-Chall
Readability Formula on e-texts, for the Macintosh?
Please e-mail--I don't log in as often as I'd like, and so often miss
netnews posts.

Thanks!
Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.astro,sci.bio,sci.chem,sci.math,sci.physics
From: mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel)
Subject: Re: What can we have for an educational system?
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:22:16 GMT

In article <BxwrDA.6ns@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us
(Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.143453.22123@news.unige.ch> swann@divsun.unige.ch
>(SWANN Philip) writes:
>>On the contrary, I think that the legal and medical professions contain
>>about the same proportion of mediocrities and incompetents as the teaching
>>profession does. 
>
>On what basis do you reach that conclusion?  If nothing else, I have never had
>a medical problem which was not well-treated by my doctor.  I have never 
>had bad advice from my lawyer.  I have, over and over again, had teachers
>who have been ignorant of the subject matter, and unable to clearly 
>explain what they did know.

     This is all anecdotal evidence.  For every one of your poor
teachers, I can name one good one I've had.  For every piece of sound
medical and legal advice you have received, I can tell you stories of
horror and woe.
     Unfortunately, the one statistic that might tell us something
exists in the legal and medical profession, but not in teaching:
malpractice rate.  If malpractice suits against teachers were possible,
we would have a real point around which to focus this debate.

				Marc R. Roussel
                                mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
From: dal3@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (dale.e.parson)
Subject: Re: NSF and Shortages of Science and Mathematics
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:38:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.144128.23701@nscf.org> fred@nscf.org (Fred Fenimore) writes:
>I recently have seen some posts about the NSF report predicting a
>shortage of scientists being discredited.  Could someone please email me
>some references?  Even newspaper articles would be a good starting
>place.  Any help given would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Fred Fenimore

Below is some stuff on the "Young Scientists' Network", whose major
mission is dealing with the fact the U.S. & other Western nations
are pumping out science & engineering graduates that they do not
subsequently employ in science & engineering. I believe the group was
started by disgruntled physics Ph.D.'s, but there are plenty of other
disgruntled scientists and engineers contributing to the mailing list.
The postings are sort of bundled as a newsletter, with a table of contents, so
it's pretty easy to just read the stuff that interests you. Plenty of
questions about NSF here.

-------------------------------------------

        Welcome to the Young Scientists' Network

The goals of this group are:

1) To let the press, public, and government officials know that there
is no shortage of scientists.

2) To find traditional and non-traditional employment for scientists.

Letters from and articles about our group have appeared on American
Public Radio, in The Chronicle of Higher Education, the New York
Times, and Science.  Our letters to the President in 1991 helped
initiate a Congressional investigation of the NSF over the way it
handled the 'shortage' reports, and a hearing was held April 8, 1992
at which our founder, Kevin Aylesworth, testified. These hearings were
written up in _Science_ Vol 256, (10 April 1992 p. 172) and the YSN
was described in a _Science_ article Vol. 256 (1 May 1992 p. 606).
The hearings were documented in _Nature_ Vol. 356 (16 April 1992 p. 553)
and _Chemical & Engineering News_ Vol. 70 (13 April 1992)

...

Messages for broadcast to the
entire group should be sent to:         ysn@zoyd.ee.washington.edu


Kevin Aylesworth   aylesworth@anvil.nrl.navy.mil
521 E. Duncan Ave.  Alexandria, VA 22301
General questions, or requests for
anonymous posting:                      ysn-adm@zoyd.ee.washington.edu

-------------------------------------------

Dale Parson, Bell Labs, dale@mhcnet.att.com

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|    "These words are too solid, they don't move fast enough           |
|     to catch the blur in the brain that flies by, and is gone..."    |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|     Suzanne Vega                                                     |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.education,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.women
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 23:45:30 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@analog.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Nov23.225125.3966@fid.morgan.com>, sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>In article <1ejbqvINNk7@debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu> guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu
>(Stanford Guillory) writes:
>>clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>
>>>    The question is, therefore, what is the goal of preferential treatment?
>
>>>Is it to create a percentage of engineers that is equivalent to the
>>>racial or female percentages in society?   
>>
>>Although I don't think anyone has as a goal to equate the percentage of black
>>engineers to thier percentage of the population. Rather, it is just to increase
>>the percentage. If 9% of engineers were black, I don't think anyone would see
>>a problem. On the other hand, 4% seems absurdly low.
>
>The "advantage" of "just to increase the percentage" is that you don't
>have to stop when "parity" is reached.  How about a goal that says
>that no *individual* will be discriminated against on the basis of
>race?  Do you support that goal?

    Let me take the other tack.   

    How will someone decide when discrimination has occurred?   It's easy
enought to say that no one should be discriminated, but not easy to
determine why this is happening.   For example, let's pretend there
are two groups.  One group believes in studying hard for science
while another group prefers studying music.   Now, suppose that 
many of the more important of well-paying jobs comes in music.
Still, each group has some that prefer studying the other
group's main interest.   Now, one day, the group who studies
science decides that not enough of this group are getting well-paying
jobs in music.   Hence, they feel that they are left out.   What is
the solution to this problem?   Are the "science studyers" being
discriminated against?

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: yushen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Yu-Shen Ng)
Subject: Looking for list of high schools with Macs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 08:38:44 GMT


I've got an animated program for the Macintosh that helps high school
physics students visualize the principles of voltage potential and
current in circuit diagrams.  A friend of mine and I wrote this as a
senior project, and we're looking to distribute it for cheap (~$15) to
high schools with Macs.  

Could anyone point us in a direction toward obtaining electronic lists
or even printed lists of high schools with Macintoshes?  Appreciate it.


   Yu-Shen Ng
   yushen@leland.stanford.edu

-- 
     Yu-Shen Ng
     yushen@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: bpatters@mwc.vak12ed.edu (Brion G. Patterson)
Subject: Science--who cares when?
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Fredericksburg)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:37:01 GMT

Is there some reason that Physical Science should precede Earth
Science?  Or vice versa?  We are having a local discussion of
which students should take in the eighth grade, which in the
ninth grade.
Traditionally, Physical Science comes first, possibly because
the topics of introductory chemistry and physics are more
fundamental and should be introduced by then; possibly because
the topics are more diverse; possibly because more lab
activities can be done.  On the other hand, maybe Earth Science
should precede because it is less abstract, less mathematical.
Please tell us the answer!
-- 
	*	Brion G. Patterson	Rappahannock Co. High School  *
	*	bpatters@mwc.vak12ed.edu    Sperryville, VA 22740     *
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.astro,sci.bio,sci.chem,sci.math,sci.physics
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: What can we have for an educational system?
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:20:23 GMT

In article <BxwrDA.6ns@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.143453.22123@news.unige.ch> swann@divsun.unige.ch (SWANN Philip) writes:
>>In article <BxsELH.65C@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>> In article <1992Nov12.162137.24580@news.unige.ch> swann@divsun.unige.ch (SWANN Philip) writes:

>>> >I have lived and/or worked in various countries and the almost universal
>>   .... [stuff deleted]

>>> That's nonsense!  There is a much more obvious answer which is that everyone
>>> in society has a change to spend a lot of time watching teachers close up.
>>> What they see is that the vast majority are mediocre and a large number are
>>> grossly incompetent.  You seem to think that teachers are on average just
>>> as competent as doctors and lawyers, and that this is just a problem of
>>> perception.  Do you seriously believe that?

>>On the contrary, I think that the legal and medical professions contain
>>about the same proportion of mediocrities and incompetents as the teaching
>>profession does. 

>On what basis do you reach that conclusion?  If nothing else, I have never had
>a medical problem which was not well-treated by my doctor.  I have never 
>had bad advice from my lawyer.  I have, over and over again, had teachers
>who have been ignorant of the subject matter, and unable to clearly 
>explain what they did know.  Additionally, I have never had a doctor who
>thought that sickness was OK.  I HAVE had teachers who thought that 
>ignorance was perfectly acceptable.  

I have had far too many doctors who did an abominable job in even trying to
realize what the problem was.  Doctors are quite prone to totally dismiss
symptoms if they cannot think of a cause.  You are probably a youngster who
does not have problems of internal medicine, or at least not many, but we
have had reports on sci.med of relatively simple cases which were not diagnosed
by thirty (30) doctors.  Sure, a doctor can recognize bleeding or a broken
bone, or even a nasal infection.  Also, there ARE sicknesses which are OK,
or at least for which as little as possible should be done.

The legal profession is not in the greatest odor, either.  Example of a
lawyer joke, from a large collection (less nasty than most):

Q.  If there was a lawyer and an IRS agent drowning, and you have one
    life preserver, what would you do?

A.  Eat lunch.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca (Mischa Sandberg)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Usage of Online Campaign Materials
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:00:54 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Does anyone else on the net have the same serious questions as I do,
as to who exactly benefits from the results of such a survey? Beyond
a bit of transient, "Wow! I never knew so much/little political stuff moved
through the net", novelty news?

There can be little doubt that political organizations would be thrilled to
find yet one more medium to flood/manipulate. I would like to know what,
if any, compensatory benefits the USERS of the net could realize from
such a survey (hey! maybe they'll begin distributing free coupons for
upholstery cleaning, like all the other surveys).

Working in a business where very subtle means are used to develop
precise demographics, I'd take as less than benign ANY such survey,
even by an ostensibly unaffiliated research group. Every time a gas
station attendant puts your license plate no on a visa slip; every
time you make a purchase in the Safeway "Air Miles" program; you are
adding to a database. And (at least in the consumer goods world), the
typical use for such a database is not to make sure your personal
preferences are kept in stock; it is to determine what the minimum number
of products is required to cover the most sales. But I digress.
--
Mischa Sandberg ... Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca
                 or uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Mischa_Sandberg
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Engineers think equations are an approximation of reality.
Physicists think reality is an approximation of the equations.
Mathematicians never make the connection.
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:47:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <2416@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>I disagree with your view of history in many aspects; for example, I believe
>that the Egyptian pharoahs were not black in the sense that if one were
>magically transported to modern-day Los Angeles he would not be considered
>black by either blacks or whites.


On what do you base this assumption. I am black and know that the ancient
were and in their latter yes, especially like an Af Am Black. Like the
ones you see on the streets of Los Angeles.i
 
> (The Egyptians left behind quite a few
>pictures of themselves, you know.)  HOWEVER, since I think `black' and
>Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil


Like which pictures Els? I have never seen  a single portrait left by any
Egyptian.


makala


Newsgroups: misc.education
From: hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Block Schedule
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:22:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.230743.781@mwc.vak12ed.edu> bcarroll@mwc.vak12ed.edu (Brian F. Carroll) writes:
>Our high school is currently looking at a 4 block schedule for
>next year....90 min. classes.  I would like to hear from anyone
>who can speak about the transition from a 7 period day to a 4
>period day.  Let me know.  Thanks.

Don't consider it at all!  If you are giving decent material, 90 minutes
is far too long!  Except for a real seminar course, I put in the extra
time and reject 75 minute classes.  Give reasonable amounts of material,
and time to think.  And stress thinking, nor routine!
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: dillhoff@aslws01.asl.dl.nec.com (Doug Dillhoff)
Subject: Why Johnny can't tell right from wrong.
Organization: NEC America, Inc Irving TX
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:49:44 GMT


I just began reading a book that was released a couple of months ago.
The title is "Why Johnny can't tell right from wrong.", by Kilpatrick, a
Boston College professor. Has anyone read this book? What are your
thoughts? It is a case for character education as opposed to the current
and past emphasis on descision making skills and allowing the child
freedom to decide everything on their own (drug prevention, sex education,
etc.).

My first impressions of the book are that he is right on the mark. I
have only read about half of the book but so far, I agree with him
completely.

-- 
Doug Dillhoff            Any opinions expressed are strictly  
dillhoff@asl.dl.nec.com  my own and have nothing to do with   
(214) 518-5351           NEC America, Inc.
Xref: sparky misc.education:4318 misc.kids:28500 k12.chat.teacher:4963
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,k12.chat.teacher
Subject: Re: Parental Involvement in Reading
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:05:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Nov14.045018.15739@r-node.gts.org> ndallen@r-node.gts.org (Nigel Allen) writes:
>Here is a press release from the American Federation of Teachers.

> AFT, Chrysler to Release Study on Parental Involvement In Reading
> To: Assignment Desk, Education Writer
> Contact: Jamie Horwitz of the American Federation of Teachers,
>          202-879-4447

>   News Advisory:

>   The American Federation of Teachers will release "The AFT/Chrysler
>Report on Kids, Parents and Reading" in the Zenger Room of the
>Ntional Press Club, 14th and F streets N.W., on Monday, Nov. 16, at
>10 a.m.
>   The study, sponsored by the AFT, was conducted by Peter D. Hart
>Research and funded through a grant from the Chrysler Corp.
>   AFT President Albert Shanker will be joined by pollster Fred
>Hartwig of Peter D. Hart Research and Valerie Becker, Chrysler's
>National Education Program Administrator.
>   Parents of children ranging in age from 1 to 14 were interviewed
>for the study.  Focus groups also were conducted among elementary and
>middle school educators.
> -30-


Prediction:  The report will say that having parents teach their children
to read before entering school is bad.  Also, teaching structure, grammar,
etc., is bad.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: agraham@norfolk.vak12ed.edu (Andrea Graham (Andy))
Subject: Greece
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Norfolk)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:15:08 GMT

We are members of the Model United Nations and we are
researching various topics about Greece.  Specifically,
politics, health for the 21st century, economy, security,
foreign policy, history, etc.  

We would like to connect to someone from Greece to expand on
these topics.  We are high school age and this project is going
to be used Model United Nations delegations. 

Thanks,
Joe for Mrs. Graham
From: woodbe@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Brian E. Wood)
Subject: Re: Proof that small classes=better education?
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:58:58 GMT


I'm a student who is new to this newsgroup, but is interested in education.
My father is a high school teacher, and while I don't plan on teaching high
school, I am interested in maximizing the effects of both my studies and that
of those both around me and those I may eventually "teach" in some manner.

While I do not know the complete side of the teacher, I do know that the classes
I most look forward to are the classes I have with no more than 15-20 students.
Even if the class has a lecture-type format, as do my current classes, there is 
still more room for discussion and questioning than in the large class to 20+.
Of coursee the large class number is arbitrary, but I recall that my favorite 
classes were those that were small in number.  While I have no statistics to 
back up my point, it seems that of my friends, almost all of them prefer small
groups to lecture halls, or even 30 people.  My girlfriend, a business major, 
(I'm a physics major myself, sorry for not mentioning that earlier), is jealous
of my class schedule in that my largest class has about 18 students, and that
is not a physics class, there it being about 8-9, and her classes generally
have at least 20 students, and are probably closer to 40, per class, and all 
these are at the junior level.

It is a valid point that many teachers do not take advantage of the small
classroom, and I think that is a shame.  A good teacher-led discussion greatly
increases interest in the topic, and allows the students to wrestle with the
issues, not just have them handed to them for memorization and acceptance.  
While I will admit that this cannot always work, either because the students
don't want to participate or because the subject matter doesn't lend to that
style of teaching (like I can't see a teacher discussing calculus with students
on form and meaning, but questioning is important), I think the best classes are
taught in small settings.

This is just the humble opinion of a junior at Clarkson University.

BTW I wish I had been here for the beginning of the discussion.

Brian E. Wood		woodbe@craft.camp.clarkson.edu


Newsgroups: misc.education
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Science--who cares when?
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:08:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.003701.9739@mwc.vak12ed.edu> bpatters@mwc.vak12ed.edu (Brion G. Patterson) writes:
>Is there some reason that Physical Science should precede Earth
>Science?  Or vice versa?  We are having a local discussion of
>which students should take in the eighth grade, which in the
>ninth grade.
>Traditionally, Physical Science comes first, possibly because
>the topics of introductory chemistry and physics are more
>fundamental and should be introduced by then; possibly because
>the topics are more diverse; possibly because more lab
>activities can be done.  On the other hand, maybe Earth Science
>should precede because it is less abstract, less mathematical.
>Please tell us the answer!

If anything, I would say to give at least a good algebraic notation
background, and then introduce the basic physics and chemistry, with
reason, not memorization.  If Earth Science, or anything else, is just
taught as facts without reason, it is likely to make it harder to later
get the reasoning.  Encyclopedias, handbooks, etc., can be used for
looking up facts, but not for understanding.

But you may be doing things requiring understanding too late.  Young
children can understand abstract ideas better than teen-agers.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.education