HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ar12@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: They're replacing my Bee!
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:34:24 GMT
Reply-To: ar12@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Hi there- just thought I'd share my experience with Chicago Fire:
 
About 3 months ago I purchased a Chicago Fire Bee and had lots of fun flying it
until a friend purchased the exact same kite (after being impressed by mine).
We went out flying one day and guess what- his kite flew MUCH faster, MUCH
quieter, and pulled A WHOLE LOT HARDER! Of course we assumed it was a bridaling
problem and so I spent the next few hours fiddling with bridal adjustments-
with no luck. Anyway, we called the store from which my friend bought his
kite (Kite Harbor, Chicago) who offered to take my kite and forward it to
The owner of Chicago Fire. He did so and the kite was tested by both the
company owner and their kite sparer- the conclusion was that there is somthing
drastically wrong with my kite and so they're going to giving me a new  
replacment, free! Needless to say, I'm quite happy with the 'fix' and have
to say, I'm impressed with the handling of the situation by both Chicago
Fire and Kite Harbor.
 
Andre
.
From: cfwong@pbhyd.PacBell.COM (C.F. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Low Cost Stunt Kites
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:34:36 GMT
Reply-To: cfwong@PacBell.COM (C.F. Wong)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <bic.716061415@piglet.mmwb.ucsf.edu> bic@piglet.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Bruce Cohen) writes:
>treptau@parafoil.cray.com (Jeff Treptau ) writes:
>
>
>
>+Has anyone flown a few different low cost stunt kites (~$50 or below) such
>+as the TotL Snap or the Spectra Sports Rocket, and could offer a comparison
>+(forward speed, wind range, turning radius, etc) to the Cheetah?
>
>
>I have a Hot Wing (< $35) that I enjoy.
>-- 
>        Bruce Cohen                    |  UUCP:     ..ucbvax!ucsfcgl!bic
>        Pharm Chem, Box 0446, Rm S-926 |  INTERNET: bic@cgl.ucsf.edu
>        University of California       |  BITNET:   bic@ucsfcgl
>        San Francisco, CA  94143-0446  |  VOICE:    (415) 476-8291

I've found the Cheeetah to be one of the best flying and best constructed
stunt kites for under $100.  I assume that you will be flying the kite
at the Marina in Berkeley or at the Green in SF, and a well constructed
kite is a requirement! As a kite maker myself, I can only marvel at
the job that Fred Feddricks has done with the kite. 






 an exp
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:29:47 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

Just got back from a long labor day weekend, and saw all the articles on
logos.  Jeff Burka suggested "r.k" instead of "RK", as "RK" could be someones
initials, and Brian Dokter suggested putting "r.k" in a delta shape; both
suggestions sounds good to me (though I'd make the delta optional), so lets
either have a vote, or just nail it down and call it selected.  So what about
color combinations? What do you think is the easiest and most distinctive
combo to see from a distance? I vote for Red/Black because its high contrast,
it would look good on a flag or standard (black flag w/ red letters), and I
haven't seen too many pure Red/Black combo kites just lately.  If someone
doesn't like this combo, that's fine; make your own suggestion, but let's pick
a color set now, so we can start making logos. 

By the way, lauds to Jeff Burka.  Jeff, when you mentioned flying 3-D with a
progressive stack, I called up Dave Britain and told him about it.  He was
very impressed and said that you were the first person to think of flying
stacked 3-D that the Rev people have heard about.  He also asked me search my
saved articles, for your articles on progressive stacks and describe exactly
how you rig up your stacks.  He then put a set together, and went out that
same day to practice.  If everything has worked out, he should be flying that
stack in the French International Kite Show this week.  By the way, he'll also
in be doing demos in Lubbock, Texas at the beginning of October.

				Later,

				Dave Butler

    Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: What more could you ask of life? 
    Aviation combined all the elements I loved...  I began to feel that I 
    lived on a higher plane than the skeptics of the ground; one that was 
    richer because of its very association with the elements of danger they 
    dreaded, because it was freer of the earth to which they were bound.  In 
    flying I tasted the wine of the gods of which they could know nothing... 
				Charles A. Lindbergh Jr.

    PS.  Someone mentioned something about having done a logo on Ventura. If 
    possible, I`d like to see it.
From: steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Kite reviews for this newsgroup
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:55:10 GMT
Organization: Team VisionAire, San Francisco, CA

I noticed that a few people are giving out reviews about kites they've
recently flown.

I was thinking about sharing some of my knowledge with people here in netland,
but I've flown so many different kites (I work at a big Kite Store, I travel
the circuit, etc.), that I couldn't even begin to talk about even a small
part of them.

So...  If anybody has a question about a specific kite, chances are that
I've flown it--and I can tell you approximately what to expect from the
kite (keeping in mind that fliers are different, etc.).

(I figure this forum is small enough that I won't get swamped with mail..)

Oh, sure: I expect that people are going to try to come up with obscure
kites made by obscure manufacturers that nobody's heard of...  Well, whenever
I go to competitions, I hardly ever see anything in the air I have not flown:
and when I do, I always make an effort to go fly it...  Try me :-)...

Steve Thomas

P.S. Send mail to steveth@rossinc.com for best results...
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Flying at night
Originator: kevin@altair
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 14:47:41 GMT


I was thinking about flying my stunt kite at night, illuminating it with a couple
of small flashlights attached to the bridal.

Has anyone tried this (or similar), does it work?

Does anyone sell PTFE coated steel wire ?

Just an idea...

Kev.

-- 
Kevin Cameron          CLSI, Suite 100, 5457 Twin Knolls Rd., MD 21045, USA
kevin@clsi.com         Tel: (USA) (410) 992 5700 (- 5709) X229
uunet!clsi.com!kevin   Fax:       (410) 992 3536
----------------------------------------------------------- Reality Is virtual
From: lucifer@ut-emx.uucp (Light Bearer)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:52:46 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

In article <15267@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>
>I like Dave Butler's idea of a simple logo for ID purposes and a complex
>one for anything else.  Though I have to ay I'd *much* prefer something 
>like "r.k" to "RK" (which is too much like a generic Someone's initials).
>
>There's one obvious idea for a complex logo which I haven't seen suggested
>yet--a variety of kites displayed on a monitor.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>-- 
>|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
>|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
>|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |

I like both of Jeff's ideas, but maybe a modification of the complex idea
would be to have the kites actually coming OUT of the monitor. This would 
give the pin a more 3-D appearance. In fact, all the kites could
be out of the monitor and the monitor could have the letters "r.k" 
displayed.


       /\    ------    /\
     /    \  \_/\_/  /    \
        \\     ||     //
       --\\----||----//--
       |  \\   ||   //  |
   /   |   \\  ||  //   |   \
  <=========  r.k  ==========>
   \   |                |   /
       |                |
       ------------------
     / .................. \
    /  ..................  \
    ------------------------
    ------------------------


Obviously the kites would be more detailed and the computer terminal would
look like a terminal, but you get the idea.

See y'all in Lubbock.

Dean

PS - Anyone going to Rockport, TX this weekend?
-- 
 Q           \   | Dean C. Hines, Astronomy | dhines@astro.as.utexas.edu   |
 |-+=========|>  | University of Texas      | dhines@pan.as.utexas.edu     |
/ \         _/   | Austin, TX 78712         | -----------------------------|
-----------------| "No, it's not a spaceship, it's a Stunt Kite... sheesh! |
From: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: RevII: got one :-)
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:54:36 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

jlovell@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (James E. J. Lovell) writes:
>This works fine, but I was wondering what everyone else
>does?

I copied an idea and drilled a hole in a golf ball then epoxied a metal
rod in it.  Its safe, visible and easy to push into hard ground (and
long enough for sand).


-- 
Michael Bain                                            (206) 234-6942
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group           meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA 98124
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: hills@rs6120.ecs.rpi.edu (Stephen C Hill)
Subject: Re: ENGINEERING INVOLVED
Reply-To: hills@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:49:02 GMT

In article <BuJ6qx.4t1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes:
|> I have a feeling that the reason not much engineering is involved in the 
|> creation of kites is because the sport is still in its infantcy.  I'm sure
|> that the Wright brothers didn't do computer simulations, wind tunnel testing,

The Wright brothers did extensive tests of small scale models in homemade
wind tunnels.  In fact, I think this is what set them apart from most of
their predecessors who built large scale structures first (often on a whim)
and then saw what happened.  Of course, with kites the final product is
probably the same size as many of the experimental models used in early 
aviation, many of which were kites.  (Note: The Wright brothers' wind tunnels were very small (smaller than most kites): ~1 or 2 feet across, maybe.)

This series of articles reminds me of something that happened a few years ago. 
I was in a park, talking to a guy flying a delta.  Another guy walked
up and was intrigued with the kite.  The discussion turned to how the kite was
designed (size and shape of the keel, wingspan, etc.).  They were sure that
it must have been designed by an engineer.  I was never able to convince them
that at best it was probably trial and error or it just happened to work well
the first time.  I didn't bother to "pull rank" and tell them about those 
pieces of paper I have on the wall (actually under a pile somewhere) that
say aeronautical engineering on them [this statement meant to be read
with a certain amount of unintended arrogance, like a joke :-) ].

- SCH

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: Kite reviews for this newsgroup
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 01:01:42 GMT


What's a Hawain Chevron like ?

Kev.
-- 
Kevin Cameron          CLSI, Suite 100, 5457 Twin Knolls Rd., MD 21045, USA
kevin@clsi.com         Tel: (USA) (410) 992 5700 (- 5709) X229
uunet!clsi.com!kevin   Fax:       (410) 992 3536
----------------------------------------------------------- Reality Is virtual
From: lucifer@ut-emx.uucp (Light Bearer)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: logo
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:52:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Sep8.015208.3610@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> north@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes:
>
> I like the idea of the kites comming out of the computer with 
> R.K Printed on the screen  but only in a pin form i think something
> like that would be to complex for most of us to put together ourselves.
> The idea of putting R.K inside the outline of a delta kite in basic
> colors would be more to my liking on a general basis. And I think most
> could come up with a good representation of it on our own.
>
> George                                        North@Frith.egr.msu.edu.


Yeah, I agree. The logo design I posted was definitely intended to be a 
pin NOT a design to sew onto a banner or kite. For the big banner logo,
I liked the R.K in the delta too, and/or the kite inside an 'at' sign 
formed by a tail.

BTW - What ever happened to the FAQ?

Dean


-- 
 Q           \   | Dean C. Hines, Astronomy | dhines@astro.as.utexas.edu   |
 |-+=========|>  | University of Texas      | dhines@pan.as.utexas.edu     |
/ \         _/   | Austin, TX 78712         | -----------------------------|
-----------------| "No, it's not a spaceship, it's a Stunt Kite... sheesh! |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter)
Subject: Re: Kite Tail Tales (Was: Re: Kite Tails)
Organization: Northwest Digital Systems
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 23:54:31 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele) writes:
: I saw an article in a really old Scientific American about simple kites,
: and there was a sketch of a kite tail made by stringing together paper
: cups with the bottoms cut out.  Apparently this has more lift than
: streamers, while providing the same directional stability.  Has anybody
: out there tried this?

Were these strung with the bottom toward the wind or away from the wind?
In other words, were these just a train of drogues?

Brian
-- 
Brian Dockter                    | Northwest Digital Systems
UUCP: uunet!nds!brian            | Voice: 206-524-0014
Internet: brian@nds.com          | FAX: 206-524-0018
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Engineering involved in Kite Making?
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:09:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep9.220958.19284
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

There are several kite makers out there who claim to use computer
programs and such to design their kites. I suspect that most (if not
all) use computer programs as CAD/drawing aids rather than actual
design tools.

Kites can be very complicated things, especially stunt kites. There
are basic aerodynamic considerations that are sometimes used, but even
then there is much confusion.

As an example ask a kite maker about aspect ratio. The aerodynamic
definition is a very simple formula, but most kite makers won't be
able to tell you what it is.

I design kites by the, "well, it worked well last time" method.
Experience is usually my guide, but I am often surprised by what the
kites end up doing when I actually fly a kite.
------------
  Marty Sasaki				mss@das.harvard.edu
  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		phone:  617-522-8546
  26 Green Street
  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor)
Subject: Can you help me identify this kite
Organization: Open Systems Solution, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:26:17 GMT

Some time ago I bought a kite, that looked very nice in the
shop but turned out to be impossible to fly. Unfortunately
I lost the instructions that came with the kite and I 
am trying to identify both the kite and the manufacturer.

The kite consists of four seperate section. Each section
is a triangular based pyramid made up of two triangles
of rip-stop nylon and plastic spars. The spars have joints in the
middle that are used to pop out the section into its pyramid shape.
When constructed, the nylon forms a V shape that covers
two sides of the vertical face of the pyramid. There are
tensioning lines running inside the pyramid.

Constructing the kite consists of creating a base, using three
of the pyramids. These pyramids are held together using clips
that are attached to the nodes of the pyramids. The fourth section
is then mounted ontop of the vertices of the three base pyramids.
Thus the final construction looks like an even bigger pyramid that is
about 4 feet tall.

The kites takes about 5 minutes to build.

The bridle is a standard type of single string adjustable. It
has two connecting points on to the kite and a single adjustable
connection to the kite string.

The problem I have flying the beast is that it is very difficult
to lauch. When I do get it up in the air, it goes up about 15feet
then flips over and does a nose dive. I have tried adding tails and
weigths, and have tried different bridle adjustments. All without
any noticeable effect. There seems to be some inherant instability
that I cannot seem to correct.

I paid about $100 and I would like to try and make the kite
fly because it does look very nice and I would like to get something
back for my investment.

	Thanks in advance for your help

	Paul Taylor (pault@ossi.com)
From: hort@ui2.ems.cdc.com (Mark Hortman)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Flying at night
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:10:16 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

In article <1992Sep14.144741.27814@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron) writes:
>
>I was thinking about flying my stunt kite at night, illuminating it with a 
>couple of small flashlights attached to the bridal.

Try using cylume (sp?) sticks.  Try buying them at fishing stores.  They look
real cool.
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh)
Subject: High wind fighter kite...
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:25:40 PDT

While talking with Dale Vanderhoof, maker of the Black Feather fighter
kites a few weeks ago, he mentioned that he'd seen the North Shore VIP
kite at a festival recently and the light bulb went on.. When he
returned home, he started experimenting with a screen panel on the
Black Feather to allow it to be flown better in higher winds..
Naturally, I asked that he send one along when it was ready to be
released.. In the mail recently I got the new Black Feather VIP
fighter.. It has a small square screen panel centered behind the
feather logo, oriented diamond style or normal to the sail. It does
improve the high wind ability of the Black Feather considerably.. I
haven't had much opportunity as yet to fly it in anything over about
8, but it does show some promise..

Ob. Disclaimer:

I am a stunt kite dealer and carry some of the above mentioned
product(s). As such, my opinions may tend to be somewhat subjective.

Good Winds and Tight Lines!!

                               Wind Wizard

Purveyor of High Quality, High Performance Stunt Kites and Accessories 
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Re: RevII: got one :-)
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:06:56 GMT

In <jlovell.716101277@tasman> jlovell@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (James E. J. Lovell) writes:

>This works fine, but I was wondering what everyone else
>does?

I'll go to camping shop and buy "tent stakes". They are different
sizes, cheap. I'll put an orange rope at the end of it. Then 
it is easier to pull out if the soil is tight and you'll find
it easier if you don't remember to pick up into your pocket.

Smooth Winds
Simo Salanne
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: I'm still out here (was Re: Personal Message for Marty)
Keywords: Bouncing mail
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:55:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep11.205546.27364
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

Sad to say but I was caught up in the "work force reduction" that has
been happening at DEC. I started my "involuntary separation" a few
weeks ago.

Things are going well with me. I'm getting caught up with my kite
orders and have two new designs on the drawing board. I'm taking care
of personal business. When I get back from Texas, I'll be doing some
consulting.

So, to those who I corresponded with while at DEC, I'm happy to
continue writing and responding. Send messages to me at:

	mss@das.harvard.edu

Gentle breezes...
---------
  Marty Sasaki				mss@das.harvard.edu
  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		phone:  617-522-8546
  26 Green Street
  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
From: bic@piglet.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Bruce Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Low Cost Stunt Kites
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:56:55 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

treptau@parafoil.cray.com (Jeff Treptau ) writes:



+Has anyone flown a few different low cost stunt kites (~$50 or below) such
+as the TotL Snap or the Spectra Sports Rocket, and could offer a comparison
+(forward speed, wind range, turning radius, etc) to the Cheetah?


I have a Hot Wing (< $35) that I enjoy.
-- 
        Bruce Cohen                    |  UUCP:     ..ucbvax!ucsfcgl!bic
        Pharm Chem, Box 0446, Rm S-926 |  INTERNET: bic@cgl.ucsf.edu
        University of California       |  BITNET:   bic@ucsfcgl
        San Francisco, CA  94143-0446  |  VOICE:    (415) 476-8291
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: jlovell@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (James E. J. Lovell)
Subject: RevII: got one :-)
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:01:17 GMT

Hi,

   My 'Hot Rainbow' Rev II has arrived!  :-)

   The weather hasn't been too kind recently so I've only
taken it flying three times, but much to my surprise I'm
already making it fly backwards and do propeller like spins.
This morning I landed it upside-down and managed to
re-launch it from that position which I was really happy
about. I still find myself over-steering and occasionally
stalling the kite. Also I sometimes find myself trying to
control it as if it were a two liner and getting into a real
mess! The manual that came with the Rev was useful and I've
pretty much kept to its suggestions on learning to fly. What
an amazing kite!!

   The only thing that didn't arrive with my Rev II was
something to stake out the lines (not that I expected it). 
I've been using a couple of pieces of dowel which I thread
the loops on the handles through and stick in the ground.
This works fine, but I was wondering what everyone else
does?

   Thanks again to all who gave advice on buying a Rev,

Jim    :-)

------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lovell.  Radio astronomy PhD Student,
             Physics Dept., University of Tasmania
             Australia
             email: jlovell@physvax.phys.utas.edu.au
------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Does this work
From: $stevee@sasb.byu.edu (Stephen Eldredge)
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:57:41 -0700
Distribution: usa
Summary: Trial Posting to rec.kites

In article <Bu2rAt.7yy@news.fai.com> pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor) writes:
>Subject: Does this work
>From: pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor)
>Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:18:28 GMT
>Summary: Trial Posting to rec.kites
>I think that my newreader now works, could you please
>Reply is you see this message
>
>	Thanks
>		Paul Taylor

YUP IT WORKS!
Newsgroups: rec.kites