From: stoesser@i31s21.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:31:29 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: i31s21.ira.uka.de

In article <5154@transfer.stratus.com>, kdj@sw.stratus.com (Ken Jordan) writes:
|> In article <14rg5bINN341@iraul1.ira.uka.de>, stoesser@i31s21.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:
|> > 
|> > How comes that whenever I hear Christians talk about sheep and shepherds
|> > I think of fleece and mutton? Oh, and sheep's heads and the wolf in sheep's
|> > clothing.
|> > 
|> > In my opinion religion has done enough harm to children to get rid of it.
|> > 
|> >  							        Achim
|> > _____________________________________________________________________
|> > 
|> > I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian.  This does _not_
|> > mean that I'd bomb kings, worship Satan, let soldiers bleed to death,
|> > or eat fish.
|> 
|> I don't understand your entire meaning above and I don't think I want to.

You don't want to understand. I see.

|> However, Christian religion has not harmed children.  Perhaps your childhood
|> or those around you who had difficult childhoods blame it on religion. I'm
|> sorry if this is your lasting impression. 

Ever heard of children's cruisades[sp?]? Oh, yeah, that's past. So let's see
what happens in 1992 "A.D." - only one example of many: primary school kids
haveing horrible nightmares because their (Catholic) teacher showed them 
pictures of chained children tortured by demons - sinners in hell.

|> The major problem (and the reason for the sad state of our society) is that
|> parents do not know how to train or discipline their children. Children are
|> never taught what's right, hence they never recognize what's wrong when they
|> see it or become ensnared by it.  Some parents rely on the school system
|> to discipline their children, while others allow anyone BUT themselves
|> to discipline their children.  Wake up!!  These are your children, not pets!

I'm probably not familiar enough with the English language to see what you mean -
in German "disziplinieren" is military jargon. But substitute "discipline" by
"love" in the above - doesn't that sound much better?

|> They're a blessing.  God entrusts parents with the responsibility of 
|> raising of children. God is clear on how to raise children and that does
|> include training and discipline (Prov 33).

Assumed that a god exists - a bunch of nonsense written by nomads doesn't seem
to be a reliable source of what it wants and does. Especially when this 
scripture contains gems like four-legged gras-hoppers, God-ordered genocides,
etc.

The Bible is clear on how to raise children and that does include stoning them
to death (Deut 21:18--21, Ex 21:17, Lev 20:9, Mt 15:4). Jesus says, that someone
who doesn't hate father, mother, wife, brethren _and children_ (my emphasis,
quoted from memory) can't be his disciple (Lk 14:26).

|> Many tend to equate child discipline with child abuse.  Nothing could be
|> further from the truth.  One can discipline their child without abusing
|> them.  There are those (unfortunately) who abuse their children without
|> disciplining.
|> 
|> Your .signature is inaccurate.  There is no such thing as an atheist (see
|> Romans 1), but there are those who are unenlightened.  Remember, you can
|> only serve one master!  If you are not serving God, who are you serving?

Some things in the Bible are true (it states for example that there is no 
immortal soul, Eze 18:4), some are not. If Rm 1 states that there are no atheists,
well, that's fine for me.

Besides I do not serve anybody.
								   Achim
________________________________________________________________________

I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist and vegetarian. "'course I know what
a vegetarian is. It's kinda ice monster."  -- 7yo
Newsgroups: misc.kids