From: messiah@nevada.edu (MHW)
Subject: Putting things in their proper perspective
Originator: messiah@redrock.nevada.edu
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:22:20 GMT

In article <annius.718537017@freyr> annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:
>bechdol@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jeff Bechdol) writes:

[ exerpt from a recent post from a PTT employee, and its response ]

>>>>>OK girls. Put your breasts on the scanner and FAX them to PTT Research. 
>                         ^
>			 sorry should have said boobs. This sounds rediculous
>>> 
>>>>I see a lot of sexism on USENET, such as the post above. 
>>> 
>>> Sexism? Sorry I can't see any sexism in it; this is just having a bit of
>>> fun. 
>
>>While the remark may not have had the INTENT of sexism, its CONTENT did.  
>>Whether it was funny or not makes no difference... because some people didn't 
>>see any sexism in it does not imply that it wasn't sexist.
>
>People did not see it was an ironical reaction to a INTERPRETABLY sexist and
>perverted post asking people to write something about `the female breast'. OK,
>I should have added lots of :-) but I thought that would make it a little too
>obvious.

I'm going to interject here and make the stereotypically Dutch gesture of
"met het wijsvingertje zwaaien". I just wanna know one thing...

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL HERE? There have been far more reactions to this
questionable, though moderately humorous, posting about something relatively
trivial than to the those posters from Trinity College (Ireland) who made
tasteless remarks & jokes about the tragic cargo plane crash over the Bijlmer
area. Strange priorities indeed... 

Be realistic folks, for some damn reason everybody wants to be reasonable
and not waste bandwidth on flaming the posters of Trinity College for those
callous insults they made in regard to the Bijlmer disaster, but now that its
a sexual issue all of a sudden everyone is completely flushed about it. I 
thought the Dutch (en ik ben er ook eentje) were supposed to be known for
thier tolerance, and healthy attitudes towards freedom of expression?

I used to laugh when the Dutch show "Pin-Up Club" would show video-clips
on TV that were produced in the USA but _censored_ there. By European
standards such videos were well within the norms and most Dutch I know
consider the American censorship policy the product of an inhibited
and puritanical society. I used to laugh because as a Dutchman I felt that
the Dutch (as are the majority of Europeans) were way beyond such archaic
notions, but apparently there are still a few prudes around. 

What's my point? 

Firstly, I question whether the original poster of the breast-fax request
was out of line (did Annius actually get any reponses yet :-) ? ). The posts 
I saw (but I could have missed others - I skip a lot of stuff), were in my
opinion, reasonably worded so as not to be vulgar, just humorous (it was
a _little_ bit funny, but only to a degree).

Secondly, other posters suggested that this sort of thing be put on a
more appropriate newsgroup, and I agree in principle except for one
thing: there are different posters who occasionally complain about all 
the "slap gelul" on this net. Thus, here is a trypical situation where
a communication network has weakened from a noticeable void in the substance
of its dialogue. This, in turn, inevitably establishes an environment for
sensationalism to flourish. Without more significant stuff to talk about, 
people will either fill this net with insults & tripe or it will suffer
the fate of a newsgroup pitifully below the 1000 level in popularity and
might eventually perish.

The way you guys jump all over Annius Groenink for merely having poor taste
in what he thinks is funny, is _worse_ than what he did.  The truth is that
a lot of people don't have the originality to bring up an interesting subject
themselves and consequently they compensate for this by being overly
judgemental of others. This is highly evident from the fact that the ratio
of (RE:)sponses to original posts is generally very high on s.c.n. 

So act a little more Dutch guys, if someone expresses an ill-conceived 
opinion with potentially "sexist" overtones, then be as reasonable and
tolerant as you were about the Trinity College wise-cracks. Now those were
really in bad taste. That's putting things in perspective...


Btw - The internetkrant *IS* a fabulous idea, it should keep a lot of
people with s.c.n. C-ya...


Marco LV, NV, USA