HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 02:35:39 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <susan.702688764@coombs> susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) writes:
>russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
>
>>In article <susan.702616434@coombs> susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) writes:
>
>>>	And so he responds yet again and in the same vein.....
>>>
>>>	So, are you that afraid of having some beer spilled on your addled
>>>brained pate?  Or do you like brawling for a living?
>
>>I certainly wouldn't let anyone get a bottle near enough my head to
>>pour it on me-- how do I know the guy isn't going to do something more
>>damaging with the bottle?
>
>	So, you'd provoke a fight, simply because the bloke was threatening
>you?  Yep, such a big man Matthew, do you start fights when someone walks
>across your shadow?

Waving bottles around my head is a little more dangerous than walking
across my shadow.  

>>Of course, you probably wouldn't understand, as in Western society,
>>most low-lifes won't pick fights with women.
>
>	No, they just beat their wives and molest their children.

Ahh, you've hit on something there-- what is a wife to do if her
low-life husband decides to start beating on her?  Does she try to
defend herself, or does she just lie back and take it until she can
run away?

>--
>|  *   |We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men, and if we were free... |
>|*    *|as under natural conditions, our motherhood would be our glory. That |
>|    ' |function gives women such wisdom and power as no male ever can       |
>|   *  |possess. - Elizabeth Cady Stantoni___________________________________|

Ms. Stantoni seems to have forgotten that it takes a male gamete to
allow women to get this 'motherhood'.
-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Non-violence vs. the chainsaw...
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:43:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

This is a proxy-posting for Dean Payne (see below).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, you wrote:

> Now, how about some postings from people who were threatened by
> chain saws and for whom non-violence DIDN'T work.  Speak up!

I posted a response to David, but it seems to have fallen into the bit-
bucket along with all other outgoing posts from this site since March
31.  Could you re-post it for me?


>From: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
>Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!

>>> I don't think non-violence works *all* the time. I am
>>> saying it *can* work in some situations and should be
>>> considered as one alternative. I was also threatened
>>> by an ex-friend with a chain saw and non-violence worked then ,too!

>>Now, how about some postings from people who were threatened by
>>chain saws and for whom non-violence DIDN'T work.  Speak up!

>If you read a previous posting of mine, you would
>have read that I *have* been threatetened by someone weilding
>a chain-saw! And non-violence worked for me in that case
>too!

Is a chainsaw counterexample still needed?

A Yakima (east of Seattle) resident was robbed under threat from a
chainsaw.  He gave the robbers his rings, but was having trouble
releasing the special clasps on his expensive watch.  They thought he
was resisting, and removed the watch themselves.  With the chainsaw.
The victim's left hand was never found.

The newspaper articles are buried somewhere in my clipping file, but one
of my old postings dated October 4, 1990, indicated that it happened in
the preceeding week.

Of course, nonviolence works.  Sometimes.  It worked for my SO.  It
worked for my brother.  It failed for two of my cousins.  One had
another option available, and saved his mother's life at the expense of
the life of the attacker (his own father).  The other cousin had no
choice but to submit to a swinging 2x4, and spent three weeks in a
hospital before brain surgeons could restore his comprehension of human
language.

I dislike being limited to just one course of action.

--
Dean
deanp@lsid.hp.com
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Results of Berkeley gun buy back
Date: 3 Apr 92 16:47:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation


|> fcrary@ocf.berkeley.edu (Frank Crary) writes:
|> >The police department has the option of keeping any weapons
|> >so turned in for departmental use, Lt. Grant said that none of the
|> >guns turned in were suitable for reuse.
|> 
|>

And yet further down in the article he mentioned that even though all the turned-in
weapons were unserviceable it was good to have them turned in so they wouldn't be
stolen and used on the streets...
-- 
Alan Hepburn           "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
National Semiconductor       a little temporary safety deserve neither
Santa Clara, Ca              liberty nor safety."
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Benjamin Franklin
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:46:54 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr9.064903.1060@matilda.vut.edu.au> db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman ) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.125213.4695@NCoast.ORG> cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes:
>>As quoted from <1992Apr3.232219.8647@matilda.vut.edu.au> by db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman ):
>>> ...
>>> Instead of watching these gun-slinging movies, I suggest you watch
>>> a few Australian films, in order to see life in its fullest, and
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> to get a more balanced perspective on the human experience.

  So perfect is Australia that any and all of its films portray "life
in its fullest" and give "a more balanced perspective on the human
experience."  Surely this is impressive, now isn't it?  But wait!
>>
  An American (shudder, gasp) says:
>>I recommend:
>>
>>Mad Max
>>The Road Warrior
>>Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome(?)
>>Road Games
>>ANZACS
>>The Lighthorsemen
>>Gallipoli
>>Breaker Morant 
>>
>>None of these films in any way portrays nor advocates violence in any way... 
>>NOT.
>>
>>And those are just the ones which have received notice in the U.S.  Such
>>hypocrisy and deceit becomes you....
>
>Your choice of Australian film is very interesting. Hardly
>an unbiased sample!

  But they are Australian films, and so fit your own criteria.  You
can only reject them if you are willing to reject your own statement
above which portrays all Australian films as idyllic.  If you are
willing to pick and choose with Australian films, then why not with
American films?  I don't consider either Mad Max or Dirty Harry to
be the highest level of culture.  (However, if we get talking about
the James Bond films ...)

--henry schaffer
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Fire fighters and whatifs  (Was Re: Sanity arrives ...)
Summary: Sanity departs ...
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:42:24 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr7.031848.5817@matilda.vut.edu.au> db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman ) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.104946.15968@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (R.L.Taylor KB2OOA) writes:
>> ...
>>Gee, we have a fire department in my town, too.  But I still have smoke
>>detectors in my house, and fire extinguishers in my kitchen and my car.
>>To do otherwise would be pretty stupid, IMO.  Fire department response
>
>You must have a miserable life, worrying all the
>time about what can go wrong. I would get such equipment if
>I lived in the bush, but in the inner city, no way!
>
  I can understand a pacifist saying he will not protect himself or his 
family using violent methods, even if I don't agree.  However, I really 
have trouble with the philosophy which says that simple (nonviolent) 
methods to protect against fire should not be used.  The apparent
reason is that the city has a fire department and that a fire in a
person's home is the Fire Department's problem!  Don't install a smoke
detector, just let the Fire Department worry over whether your children
will be able to get out in time to save their lives - unbelievable.
  
>>time (like police response time) can be several minutes...longer if they're
>>already busy with another fire (crime).  Guess I should just let my house
>>burn down while I wait?
>
>No. I suggest you do something about the services your
>country provides.

  You admit above that your country doesn't provide sufficient fire
services in the bush.  I suggest that you rememdy that before you
criticize other countries.  After all, children in the bush should
have the same chance to burn to death as children in the cities,
now shouldn't they?

  I brought up the Fire Department analogy because I thought there
could be no reasonable argument against the concept of protecting
one's home against fire.  I seem to have greatly underestimated
the strength of the "let someone else take care of it, let
someone else be concerned about it" philosophy which some 
Australians have.  (Can it be true that Australians wouldn't even
carry a spare tire in their cars if the law didn't compel them?
Does the law allow use of a "mini" spare?  I guess that I must
be one of those macho paranoid little boy Americans because I have
a spare tire, a flashlight, jumper cables and a tool box in my
car even without a law requiring it.)  This total reliance on the
government will gradually ease the government into a position of
total power, and the "it can't happen here" will turn into a "when
did it happen?" - but it will still be ok, the Fire Departments
(and the trains) will run on time.

--henry schaffer
From: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:28:44 GMT
Reply-To: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Organization: Victoria University of Technology, Melb, Australia

In article <1992Apr08.023539.18156@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
>>
>>>>	And so he responds yet again and in the same vein.....
>>>>
>>>>	So, are you that afraid of having some beer spilled on your addled
>>>>brained pate?  Or do you like brawling for a living?
>>
>>>I certainly wouldn't let anyone get a bottle near enough my head to
>>>pour it on me-- how do I know the guy isn't going to do something more
>>>damaging with the bottle?
>>
>>	So, you'd provoke a fight, simply because the bloke was threatening
>>you?  Yep, such a big man Matthew, do you start fights when someone walks
>>across your shadow?
>
>Waving bottles around my head is a little more dangerous than walking
>across my shadow.  

Who said the guy "waved the bottle around"? Not me. Just
for the record, he definitely didn't wave it around. 
>
-- 
   "Leave our flies alone, you Pommy bastard!"
    Spectator at a Test match in the 1930s when an English cricketer
    was swatting at flies.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani)
Subject: Re: Lawmaster Case in Tulsa OK
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:00:39 GMT

In article <1154@tnc.UUCP> m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY) writes:
>Has anyone heard any more on the BATF's complete trashing of John
>Lawmaster's home.
>
>Has the search warrant affidavit been released?
> 
>Has BATF paid damamges?
>
>Has *anything* constructive been accomplished so far?

Some friends have sent their Representative a copy of the article from
"American Rifleman" on this travesty as a way to inform them of this
event. If you think it will help send your Representative a copy too.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"Fight fire with fire, I always say." -- Bugs Bunny
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: curmw@dcatla.uucp
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: CCW permits
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:24:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Communications Associates, Alpharetta, GA


	I live in Atlanta and have a CCW permit.  I also travel to
	FL to visit relatives, and I know that FL has a CCW law
	that is similar to GA's.  Is there any way to obtain a
	CCW permit in a state in which you do not reside?

	My grandad (who lives in FL) thinks that states with similar
	CCW requirements will honor each others' CCW permits, but I
	think that is unlikely.

	Florida is the only state that I really care about right now;
	are there any FL residents on the net that might know or
	be able to find out?  I'd appreciate it.

	BTW, what is this "wymmin" stuff?  Is this a sign of a real
	inferiority complex?  (Don't respond to me, Susan, you and
	Brian have been in my kill file for some time now...)

	//Rob Waterson
	My opinions, *not* DCA's.
	curmw@dcatla.uucp
From: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:54:03 GMT
Reply-To: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Organization: Victoria University of Technology, Melb, Australia

In article <1992Apr9.002311.418@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>> ...
>>	So, you'd provoke a fight, simply because the bloke was threatening
>                  ^^^^^^^                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>you?  Yep, such a big man Matthew, do you start fights when someone walks
>                                           ^^^^^
>>across your shadow?
>> 
>> ...
>
>  If a bloke "threatens" someone, one might think that it was the bloke
>who was "provoking" a fight, wouldn't one?  
>
Agreed. We can have some idiot be very provocative, but it is my belief
the best thing to do in such situations is to
1: ignore him,
2: avoid eye contact.

Sure, he is wrong to be provocative, but we shouldn't sink to his
level. We should teach others by example.  When my ex-mate chainsawed
my furniture I didn't like it: who would, but he felt a real fool
afterwards. Now, if I had chain-sawed his furniture, I would have been
acting like a child, wouldn't I.

>  How does "threatening" become equivalent to "walking across your
>shadow"?  Or is this another Australian idiom?
>
I haven't heard it.
-- 
   "Leave our flies alone, you Pommy bastard!"
    Spectator at a Test match in the 1930s when an English cricketer
    was swatting at flies.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: lambert@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Tim Lambert)
Subject: Re: Guns and Rape
Organization: CS&E, Uni of NSW, Australia
	<rob2fINNsab@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<LAMBERT.92Apr10023713@nankeen.spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au>
	<s4en8INNbpm@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:51:06 GMT

>>>>> On 10 Apr 1992 16:11:20 GMT, fcrary@ocf.berkeley.edu (Frank Crary) said:
> (Tim Lambert) writes:
>>Which does not explain why there was no change in the suburbs, where
>>there was just as much publicity.

> Presumably, the publicity was about women in Orlando carrying guns, not
> women in the suburbs of Orlando carrying them.

It seems likely that a significant number of women from the suburbs
took the gun training program.  I don't see why the publicity would
not have mentioned this.  Furthermore, the publicity is supposed to
have worked by reminding criminals of their chances of getting shot.
Should we assume that a rapist will not be able to make the connection
that if he could get shot in Orlando city, then he could get shot in
suburban Orlando.

Tim
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Getting the gun to your car and breaking the law
Keywords: law gun car
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:54:07 GMT

In article <23468@goofy.Apple.COM> earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace) writes:
>This information is based on the fact that you can carry the gun, locked or
>unlocked, on your property, but once you leave that property, you must have
>a CCW or live in a state where it doesn't matter.  Seems like a real
>concern to me.

No, that's not a "fact"; it isn't true.

First of all, living in a state with no CCW requirement is no defense.
The CCW defense only works if you have one, and if your state doesn't
do that, you're out of luck.

More importantly, there are legal ways to transport without a CCW.
Guess why the original message on this subject discussed different
types of cases?  (Hint: the legal cases for long guns are not commonly
owned, while the legal ones for handguns are.)

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: malloy@NPRDC.NAVY.MIL (Sean Malloy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Manhood, talking tough, posting in t.p.g., life, universe and
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:35:09 GMT
Organization: Navy Personnel R&D Center, San Diego

In article <susan.702687861@coombs> susan@coombs.anu.edu.au writes:
>	Wanting equality does not mean that we want to become the _same_ as
>men.  We don't want the male (violent) solution to our problems because all
>it causes in the long run is just more grief and suffering.  Wymmin seek an
>alternative _peaceful_ solution.  

Fine; you can let your 'alternative _peaceful_ solution' be lying down
and spreading your legs when a rapist isn't willing to listen to you,
but don't try to force _your_ idea of the _right_ solution on someone
to whom lying back, gritting their teeth, and accepting it is a
completely _unacceptable_ solution. Coercing everyone else to follow
your ideal of 'peaceful solutions' makes you different from men only
in that you're employing a different _kind_ of violence.

-- 
random sig #121:
Sean Malloy                                  | What good is freedom if the only
Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | people you can vote for are
San Diego, CA 92152-6800                     | politicians?
malloy@nprdc.navy.mil                        | 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Susan is still only thinking about herself
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:23:01 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns

As quoted from <1992Apr6.200345.7906@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> by aa543@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thom Boughton):

> <susan.702004163@coom>
> Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
> 
> In a previous article, susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) says:
> 
> 
> >
> >       US LAW DOES NOT APPLY IN AUSTRALIA.  I believe we fought quite
> >a large and loud flame war late last year over that little matter.  If
> >you'd like to provoke it again, do so.
> >
> 
> Ahhh! You should have said so.  Wasn't aware of where you were.  Odd, your 
> address comes out on this end as being from Duke University.

Don't let her throw you off.  Her formulation could best be stated as, 
"US LAW DOES NOT APPLY IN AUSTRALIA... but Australian law DOES apply in the US,
or at least OUGHT to".  This is a standard line for them.  They retreat to it
every time somebody makes them look foolish.  They retreat to it a LOT. :)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: In a few months this will be denied too
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:46:26 GMT
Reply-To: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Organization: Victoria University of Technology, Melb, Australia


We have had pro-gunners post saying they would kill for a penny,
that Australia should be nuked, and then we have had Chris Morton
falsely claim that Susan and myself want gays to die. You mob must be
desparate, resorting to such pathetic tactics. Now we have
Brian quoted out of context in a .sig and Terminator encouraging
murder. And I have been asked, am I a cleaning lady. I am not BTW
a lady and I am not a cleaner, but unlike the person who asked,
I can't see what is so terrible about being one. Oh yes, there
was the guy who emailed Susan and told her to put chili powder on her tampons.
What a rabble you are. I didn't really appreiate the term "redneck"
till I read this group.

I repost Terminator's charming posting. 

>Where should donations be sent to help buy the Hezbollah agents some
>plane tickets to England and a Rand-McNally map with detailed blueprints of
>Rushdie's house?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- 
   "Leave our flies alone, you Pommy bastard!"
    Spectator at a Test match in the 1930s when an English cricketer
    was swatting at flies.


-- 
   "Leave our flies alone, you Pommy bastard!"
    Spectator at a Test match in the 1930s when an English cricketer
    was swatting at flies.
From: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: NRA billboards
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:25:07 GMT
Reply-To: db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman )
Organization: Victoria University of Technology, Melb, Australia

In article <44837@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:
>My family's farm has a few billboards along I-65 between Indy and Chicago.
>
>I've spent a few hours thinking of catchy signs I could make.  (Can't
>recall most of them.)  Now if I could just make that huge color ink-jet
>printer...
>
>Experts Agree: Gun Control Works [pictures of Hitler, ..., local politician]
>Your Tax Dollars at Work [picture of no-knock entry of masked police into home]
>Armed Citizens are a Threat to the State [King video frame]
>Give up your gun, just use 9-1-1 [picture of woman being raped, phone off-hook]
>
Great idea. Completely over the top and hysterical. It certainly
shows the mind-set of the RKBAers. 


-- 
   "Leave our flies alone, you Pommy bastard!"
    Spectator at a Test match in the 1930s when an English cricketer
    was swatting at flies.
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Fire fighters and whatifs  (Was Re: Sanity arrives ...)
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:59:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article <1992Apr8.000921.995@ee.rochester.edu> vanremme@ee.rochester.edu (Bill VanRemmen) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.031848.5817@matilda.vut.edu.au> db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman ) writes:
>
>Is Dave really such a twit, or is he just pretending?

Yes.

--
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Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns