HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brock@cs.unca.edu (J. Dean Brock)
Subject: Re: X11R5 server for the HX graphics controller?
Reply-To: brock@cs.unca.edu (J. Dean Brock)
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:42:13 GMT

I'm not sure anyone has said this, so I will.

You can get the X11R5 distribution from MIT and compile the Xdec server.
Xdec will run on the machines with the HX graphics controller.
However, it will be noticeably slower.

We have one fellow here who just MUST run phigs, so he runs the Xdec server
'cause we're either too cheap or too principled to pay for the phigs H-kit.
(I really don't understand how one TK50 and some docs can cost so much :-)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: Jeffrey Luszcz <jrl2@cornell.edu>
Subject: Emulex SC02/A and Kennedy 5300 SMD Drive
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18: 08:15 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: jrl2@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:04:39 GMT


  Has anyone ever used this combination?
If so can you tell me what you had to do
to get it formatted? I'm using RSX-11 ver 4.0
on a pdp-11/23+
   FMT does not work, neither does (seamingly
the hardware format switch on the board)
   Thanks,
   -Jeff Luszcz
    cc2x@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
I have also posted to alt.pdp-11
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: eklund@fman.enet.dec.com (Dave Eklund)
Subject: Re: Alpha 64 bit integers
Reply-To: eklund@fman.enet.dec.com (Dave Eklund)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:12:16 GMT

Yes, there are 64-bit integers, DEC Fortran will support them on AXP, and they
are little endian.  INTEGER*8 provides the fairly natural extension to
the 64-bit integers.

Dave Eklund
DEC Fortran team
From: cfstmpab@logica.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Logicals
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:19 GMT

Could you tell me, is there a call/or approach to obtain the
text of a logical, a sort of 'lib$get_logical'?

Also we had a problem where we couldn't delete a logical from 
the group table at DCL but on a simple system service call, it
was cleared. 

Andrew Buckle 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: burrsie@tgevax.life.uiuc.edu (Burr Nelson)
Subject: Re: Free BSD for uVax II
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:55:26 GMT

shor@utkvx3.utk.edu (Shor, Andy) writes:

>The net2 source distribution appears to have support for the uVax II.  Has
>anyone tried it?  

Yeah, I tried it but a few machine dependent header files were missing
when I ran the make depend.  I copped a few from a VS3100 running Ultrix
4.3 (probably certain death) but I couldn't find the duo referenced in
the following error msg:

kyoto: root 107> make depend
cc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -DMICROVAXII -DVAX630 -DTCP_COMPAT_42 -DINET -DQUOTA -DTIMEZONE=480 -DDST=1 -DMAXUSERS=8 -o genassym ../../vax/vax/genassym.c
../../vm/pmap.h:73: machine/pmap.h: No such file or directory
../../sys/proc.h: machine/proc.h: No such file or directory
*** Error Code 1

Grumpf!  

-Burr

-- 
   Burr Nelson * 217-333-2435 * burrsie@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu * FAX: 217-244-6615
  U of I Biophysics * 166 Davenport Hall * 607 S. Mathews * Urbana, IL  61801
From: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Memory questions about DS 5000/240
Keywords: memory
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:50:04 GMT
Reply-To: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1g4bk1INN4r4@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>, marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten) writes:
>
>Hello,
>I have some questions about memory and memory upgrades. 
>
>1.) How can I get the real used phsyical memory. vmstat didn't tell, or not ?
>

% vmstat -v

This is mentioned in the manual page.  The two real memory statistics
total real memory used and active real memory.

>2.) What must I do to upgarde a DECstation 5000/240 from 16 to 72 MB.
>    I put in the simms, then edit the config file and rebuild the kernel.
>    That's all ?
>

At a minimum:

1.  Shutdown the system.
2.  Install the memory.
3.  Boot.  You may want to run the console commands that check the
    amount and run a memory to make sure that everything is ok.

The physmem parameter in the configuration is used for setting some
table sizes (page tables, etc).  At one time the only interesting
values that I could see where less than 64 KB and greater than 64
KB (I don't remember which equal belonged to).  You'll probably want
to change physmem to reflect the actual amount, but it isn't absolutely
necessary.

>3.) How can I extend the swap space ? Is putting an entry in the config file 
>    the only thing I have to do ?

Update the "config" line in the configuration, rebuild and reboot the
new kernel and edit /etc/fstab to include a line for each additional
device.  The format of the lines is:

/dev/block-device::sw:0:0:ufs::

>
>ThanX for any response !
>--
># Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
--
Alan Rollow				alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com
From: lee@hsh.com (Lee Havemann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: VAX BSD final answer...
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:37:32 GMT
Organization: HSH Associates

In article <1992Dec14.041235.4661@panix.com>, tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) writes:
> 
> Except of course for VMS, which was as slow and ungainly a decade ago as UNIX
> has only just started to become.
> 
> (Now if there were only a TOPS-20 or ITS port for the vax...)
> -- 

How about a RSTS port :-)

-- 

 Lee Havemann, Sys_op       HSH Associates          (201) 838-3330 
 Internet: lee@hsh.com    Compuserve: 70410,3507    AOL: HSH Assoc
 "Any opinions expressed are not necessarily those of anyone else, 
  including myself."
From: vance@lpl.arizona.edu (Vance Haemmerle x4021)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Synch port for VS4000/90?
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:21:23 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.dec
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

In article <1992Dec15.163117.4120@arizona.edu> Leonard@Arizona.EDU writes:
>Does the VAXstation 4000/90 support a synchronous serial
>port?  All we need is one 9.6Kbps RS232 synch port, such as 
>the MicroVAX 3100/90 supports, I believe.

  Yes, both the Model 60 and 90 VAXstation 4000s have a Synchronous
  communications option.  It is customer installable and the EIA-232
  version is part number DSW21-AA.  It requires the WAN device driver
  and precludes the TURBOchannel adapter option.

>
>Thanks in advance,
>

  "Thanks Vance" would be sufficient. ;-)

>Aaron
>
>Aaron Leonard (AL104), <Leonard@Arizona.EDU>
>University of Arizona Network Operations, Tucson AZ 85721

--
Vance Haemmerle                         vance@vips.lpl.arizona.edu
Support Systems Analyst, Sr.            vance%toyvax@arizona.edu
Lunar & Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
From: przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov (Przemek Klosowski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: DEC workstation user feedback
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:48:29 GMT
	<Bz5MA5.6F2@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: U. of Maryland/NIST
In-reply-to: john@iastate.edu's message of 12 Dec 92 16:10:53 GMT


John Hascall wrote:
   On the other hand, I wish moronic programmers would stop using ESCAPE
   as a keystroke when it clearly is not.

   You'ld think someone from "nist" would have some respect for *standards*,
   wouldn't you?

Well, I am not sure if you are serious or joking. If you are serious, 
I would just say that I want my work done; my understanding of ANSI
escape sequences is that it is a standard for commands sent TO THE 
CHARACTER-BASED TERMINALS. The usurpation of ESC for keystrokes send
_from_ my Xterm is just unreasonable. What would be a reason for it,
besides an overwhelming desire to literally obey?

A standard is just that: a standard way of doing things. As far as I
know, only DEC insists on interpreting the ANSI standard for display
commands as prohibiting the existence of an ESC keyboard key.

A good example here might be the RS232 standard, requiring +-12V signal
swing; however, a vendor whose equipment won't work with smaller swings
would be crucified in the market. Is it good? well, probably not, but
such is life.
--
			przemek klosowski (przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov)
			Reactor Division (bldg. 235), E111
			National Institute of Standards and Technology
			Gaithersburg, MD 20899,      USA

			(301) 975 6249
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: VAX BSD final answer...
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:12:35 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <Byx3D5.326@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <DGRAY.92Dec2000244@menudo.uh.edu>, dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray
>Jr.) writes:
>
>|>It doesn't look like there is a free unix for the vax.  That's too
>|>bad, since there really isn't a really good OS for the vax anywhere.
>
>Except of course for VMS which did a decade ago all the things that UNIX has
>only just started to.

Except of course for VMS, which was as slow and ungainly a decade ago as UNIX
has only just started to become.

(Now if there were only a TOPS-20 or ITS port for the vax...)
-- 
Thor Lancelot Simon	 tls@panix.COM

"Better be careful there.  John might decide to start taking legal action
against people who refuse to buy stuff from him."  --Kevin McBride
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: skenny@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Stephen Kenny)
Subject: Graphics Board Woes
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:44:51 GMT




We're having a bad time trying to get  HX graphics boards working with
our DECstation 5000/120 machines (The monitors are Model VR319 type).  
We've suffered with the MX boards for ages, and after a very long
wait got word that DEC had replacement HX boards for our four 5000s.

We run Ultrix V4.2 on the machines.  The X servers available in /usr/bin are: 
Xtm, Xtm2d and Xws (for PXG, PX and MX & CX boards respectively, I 
understand).

When the new board is put in, we get a message about PMAGB-BA that
starts with a '?'. This doesn't look good for starters, particularaly as DEC 
support were talking about a PMAGB-BB on the phone.  Vmunix is then loaded, 
the "starting at 0x80030000" message is printed, and the console hangs.
One interpretation is that the kernel hasn't got support for the new
board built into it.  I built a kernel with the GENERIC config file and 
booted with it, but the same thing happened again. 

There are so many questions:

(1) Do I have the right board ?  Written on the board itself is "PMAGB-B"
    (there is no letter after the final "B").
(2) Is it going to work with Ultrix V4.2 (or do I have to upgrade first ?
    For filesystem reasons (AFS in fact), we haven't upgraded to 4.3.  Maybe 
    we need 4.2A ?)
(3) Have I even got the X server binary that is appropriate for this board ?
    (I fear not).
(4) What kernel configuration options do I need for the new board ?

If anyone can set me straight on this, I'd be most grateful.

Thanks a lot.
Stephen


_____________
Stephen Kenny					    +---------------------+
System Manager, Distributed Systems Group	    * skenny@cs.tcd.ie    *
Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College	    * +353 1 702 1222	  *
Dublin 2, Ireland				    +---------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: beyer@utrtsc.dec.com (Peter Beyer)
Subject: Re: X11R5 server for the HX graphics controller?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:18:18 GMT


In article <MCGRANT.92Dec17172132@rascals.stanford.edu>, mcgrant@rascals.stanford.edu (Michael C. Grant) writes...
> 
>How much longer am I going to have to wait for Xws to handle 
>the HX graphics card?
> 
>Thanks,
>Michael C. Grant
>Information Systems Laboratory
>Stanford University
>--
>"Long hair, short hair--what's the difference once the head's blowed off?" (?)

Xws from UWS 4.2 and upwards has the HX ddx code build in. 
Is still X11R4 though...

/Peter



Peter Beyer 
Windows, Graphics & Multimedia
Digital Equipment b.v.
beyer@utrtsc.enet.dec.com
beyer@athena.uto.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with a BA213 and a KFMSA?
Reply-To: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:23:53 GMT


In article <0096545A.661A7C40@vax.nott.ac.uk>, cczanj@vax.nott.ac.uk (Andy Jack) writes:
>
>We have a VAX 6410 that needs more disk. The existing KDB50 controller is full
>with 4 RA drives and there is a feeling that the whole system may be replaced
>next year by a 4000 series machine. It seemed a good idea to buy a KFMSA
>controller and start buying RF disks which would carry over to a 4000. An RF73
>won't go in the existing SA600 cabinet, so DEC offer us an R400X cabinet at a
>fairly high price (approx 50% of the cost of the RF73). A third party has
>offered an RF73 in a BA213 cabinet at a much lower cost but DEC say that the
>combination of a KFMSA and a BA-style cabinet for DSSI disks is not supported.
>
>Why ever not? What has the box got to do with it?

Lots of things actually.  When a particular configuration is SUPPORTED
it means that it has been qualified to work correctly in reasonably
extreme conditions.  This means that DEC doesn't believe that it will
break in normal operation nor violate typical laws, about running
radio stations and small space heaters...

The subsystem has to be tested to make sure that the box keeps in the
things in the box adequately cool and within their operating range
given reasonable outside conditions.  The subsystem has to be tested
to make sure the power supply can provide sufficient power in the
common extreme conditions (and that more extreme conditions aren't
like to be faced).  The subsystem has to be tested to make sure that
it doesn't "sound" like a small radio station to nearby radios (FCC
testing).

These are probably the most common things tested to make sure a
subsystem is supported.  It's expensive to do.  Therefore we limit
the configurations tested and supported.   In the specific example,
it is most likely the case that the combination of a BA213 was
never tested with an RF73.  Or if it was tested, problems not worth
the expense of solving were found.

If the 3rd party vendor is willing to guarantee that the disk won't
overheat in the box, that the power supply won't catch fire if you
spin up lots of disks at the same time and that your equivalent of
the FCC won't come banging on your door, go for it.
>
>	Andy
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Cripps Computing Centre,     JANET:    cczanj@uk.ac.nott.vax
>University of Nottingham,    BITNET:   cczanj%uk.ac.nott.vax@ukacrl.bitnet
>Nottingham NG7 2RD, UK	     Internet: cczanj%vax.nott.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
>(Phone: +44 602 513328)  
>
--
Alan Rollow				alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com

Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Re: Ultrix 4.3 / alternate console question
Organization: CS
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:26:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.200158.2820@tc.cornell.edu> olin@vger.cheme.cornell.edu writes:
>I have just installed Ultrix 4.3 on a DECstation 5000/200-PXG. When
>this system ran 4.2A, the graphics screen/keyboard was also the
>console. However, I now want to use an RS232 terminal (attached to
>the left port) as console. This appears to work fine, with the
>exception that I can get no display on the graphics screen. All the
>relevant software is installed and is running OK (yes, I have checked
>that the monitor is turned on). Anyone seen this before?

Seems to me I remember reading something about this.  

It has something to do with the kernel initializing the console, and if
it's using a standard tty, it doesn't init the frame buffer, or somesuch.

Watch the bootup messages, and see if your framebuffer device is showing up
during boot.

On the other hand, I could be so far off that this will only serve to
complicate the problem.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: strange@zk3.dec.com (Steve Strange)
Subject: Re: Question about Vax Station 2000
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:25:59

In article <1992Dec12.004537.17484@ultb.isc.rit.edu> tad@ritcsh.csh.rit.edu (Tad Hunt ) writes:

	   Hello, i don't know if this is the right place to post this,
   but I'm gonna try it here anyway.  I just purchased a VS 2000 and was
   wondering if there is any way to expand its memory above the included
   6 mb?  Thanks in advance for a reply.
				   -Tad

There is an upgrade kit from DEC that takes you to 14Mb.  Maybe they
are also available on the third-party market.

	Steve
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Steve Strange            |   Opinions expressed are my own and not      |
|   Digital Equipment Corp.  |   necessarily those of my employer, or       |
|   Nashua, NH 03062-2698    |   of anyone else, for that matter.           |
|   strange@zk3.dec.com      |                                              |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6480 comp.os.vms:19266 vmsnet.sysmgt:398
From: Hoverson@Fwva.Saic.Com (Jeff Hoverson %%% SAIC %%% 619535-7043 %%%)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: What's wrong with standalone backup?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:11:26 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

avk@hafnium.cchem.berkeley.edu (Tony Konashenok) writes:
>I am trying to restore my system disk (RD53) from backup tape (TK50).
>I boot standalone backup from TK50, it comes to "$" prompt, and I
>enter
>       backup/image/initialize/log _mua0:backup1.sav/save_set _dua0:
>
>(also tried it with fewer qualifiers).
>It calibrates the tape (which is by that time loaded and ready),
>probably finds the file backup1.sav, and says:
>
> ... Mount volume 1 in _SABKUP$MUA0: for reading
>     Enter "YES" when ready:
>
>I enter YES - it does *nothing* and repeats the same request.
>Entering YES doesn't help in any tape status (ready, just made ready,
>not ready), and there seems to be no way to get out of this loop
>except rebooting. If I initially load a wrong tape, BACKUP examines
>it all, reports "no such file" and comes back to "$".
>
>What is wrong in my actions? If nothing, what is wrong with BACKUP ?
 
It *APPEARS* that you are entering the needed commands properly.  A couple of
comments:
 
   o If you are using VMS V5.5 and have a slave printer connected to
     your console, there is a known bug which manifests itself when
     you respond to device mount questions.  If you enter `Y', the
     system hangs and the characters "ES" are not echoed.
 
  o It is conceivable that the system is allocating space on your
    system disk for the "new" files.  This can take a fair amount
    of time on slower VAXen.  However, I would suspect you would
    be able to verify this by watching the disk activity light on
    the front of your RD53.  If you see it flickering occasionally,
    this may be the case.
 
  o Also, you can NOT specify the command qualifier /NOASSIST when
    using standalone BACKUP.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Jeff Hoverson                    |       (619)535-7043
  SAIC                             |       Hoverson@Fwva.Saic.Com
  10260 Campus Point Dr., MS D2    |       VAX/VMS System Manager
  San Diego, CA  92121             |       But, I coulda' been ....
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,vmsnet.misc,comp.org.decus
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan B Gentry)
Subject: Re: Need help with MV2000
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:48:44 GMT

cts@dragon.com (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) writes:

>Can anyone give me any hints on what it takes to enable the Ethernet
>port?  Which test F...E...D, etc, indicates the Ethernet, or how
>to read the TEST 50 output?

	Test 1 is the one which checks the Ethernet, you need to have
	it connected to the net or at least have a t-connector with
	two terminators for it to test with success.

	If it is connected to the net, it should simply come up with
	the interface enabled.  Have you opened it up to see if it
	even has the Ethernet interface, or something which purports
	to be Ethernet?

>If anyone has an extra book on this puppy about, I'll pay shipping.

	I might be able to make a copy of relevant pages, but I
	need the books as I use VS2000's for testing purposes.

					Megan
From: Monica_Lee@smtp.esl.com (Monica Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Help --UISX application
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:43:50 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.dec
Organization: ESL Inc., S'vale CA

I have an uisx application and Motif Window Manager running.  I need to
shrink
this window down.  Does anybody know of the calls I need to make this work?
I have tried UIS$SHRINK_TO_ICON but DEC has told me several times that
this should not work with Motif Window Manager.  Even though I found it to
work but with problems.  Can some help me out? Are there any X calls I
could
make?  I have tried XQueryTree to find the window Id but no luck.

--
Monica
From: rjones@wsl.dec.com (Russ Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Where can I find the OSF's 'white papers (OSF/1)?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 22:13:03 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: raptor.pa.dec.com

Martin,

You may want to check on gatekeeper.dec.com in the /pub/DEC/DECinfo/whitepaper
directory.  There are 25 whitepapers there, many dealing with OSF/1 and OSF- derived technologies.  Most are written by Digital, but some are directly from OSF.  In addition to an index, each whitepaper has an abstract file (.abs) that describes what the whitepaper is all about, when it was published and, if Postscript, how many pages.

Hope this helps.

-- 
Russ Jones
UNIX Marketing
Digital Equipment Corporation
From: mjb@spl1.spl.loral.com (Melvyn J Brauns)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Audio Record/Playback S/W Tool Needed
Keywords: Audio
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:47:09 GMT
Reply-To: mjb@spl1.spl.loral.com
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Lab


   Does any out there know of (or have) any freeware/shareware that
will enable me (with a 5000/240 DECstation) to record audio tracks
and subsequently play them back?  We have that capability on our
SunSPARCs using s/w (I think made available to us from Sun), and
"hooked" it up to Interleaf documents with some LISP code to enable
creation/playback of audio tracks for self-paced training.  Now we
need the same capability on our DEC/5240 (hopefully using the same
audio files on both Sun & DEC).  Pls email any ideas directly to me.
   Thanx in advance.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mel Brauns
Loral SPL, MS:C-01		Phone: (408)473-4695
POB 49041, Bldg.220		F A X: (408)473-7131
San Jose, CA 95161-9041		Internet: mjb@spl1.spl.loral.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec