HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: PC's are *total* kludges
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:43:56 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>
>>This sounds like BS to me.  I run Windows on a 386, and switching between
>>DOS and Windows applications is instantaneous.
>
>Perhaps I should insult you and tell you that your statement is "BS" because
>my experience is different?  How many other people running Windows can
>switch between DOS and a Windows application "instantanously"?  Let's find
>out the secret of how this is done.
>

I've seen Windows on countless 386 machines, and I've never seen response time
degrade to anything close to the numbers you quoted.  On my own machine, which
admittedly has 8MB RAM, there's no difference between switching to a Windows
application and switching to a DOS application.  I used to run Windows on a
286 running at 8MHz with 1MB RAM, and it never took longer than 5 seconds or
so to switch to a DOS session.  This is why I said that your story sounded
like BS to me.  Note that I did say "to me".

It's obvious that PC weaknesses are greatly exaggerated by the Amigoids on
this newsgroup.  I'm not accusing you of making up your horror story, but
if you did, it sure wasn't the first time.

>
>John G. Ata
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: LEAVE MARC BARRET ALONE!
Organization: Columbia U., New York City
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:33:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <23681@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
>First off, if I've spelled Barret incorrectly I apologise.
>
>Secondly, this is not a post flaming Marc Barret, rather this is a post
>flaming those who flame Mr Barret.
>
>Thirdly if this post in anyway offends anybody I humbly apologise in
>advance.
>
	It is good to see that some things never change. 8-)
	-- Ethan
From: heuvdp@cbmnl.nl.so.commodore.com (Paul Heu vd Netherlands)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: blah (WAS: Re: Wing Commander I ?)
Date: 22 Jul 92 07:04:13 GMT
Organization: Commodore Netherlands

t-jcisek@microsoft.com (Julius Cisek) writes:
> Someone has to DEVELOP software before you can RUN it.  Don't you think it
> would be good to get a real good development system going?  AND FOLLOW THE
> RULES FOR ONCE!!!
>

Hmm did I hear anyone grumble AmigaBasic :)
-- 
     //        Whatever I write here are my personal opinions..
   \X/         E-mail : heuvdp@cbmnl.nl.so.commodore.com                  

            LIVE from the Mothership, the StarChild is here...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Virtual Memory for the Amiga?
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Distribution: orst
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:26:57 GMT

evermic@prism.cs.orst.edu (/X\.BiSON) writes:

>I have come across a program called 'gigamem' if anybody wants it.  It is very
>well made and the latest update I have is version 2.0 July 92.  It is
>obviosly made in german, but all the docs and stuff are in english.  There
>is a catch though.  It only works with some SCSI controller I have never
>heard of, obviosly a german brand too.  Well maybe somebody out there can
>fix it for the rest of us.

>quote:

>- This GigaMem works only with SCSI-Controller from
>  bsc broautomation AG.                           
WRONG!!!!...it should work on almost every controller....my versions works
fine with a Next Generation SCSI 2 and with an A3000 SCSI controller.

Bye...

-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
From: fettig@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Thomas Fettig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Date: 25 Jul 92 12:12:58 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson) writes:
: 
: >I mean what I say and say exactly what I mean.
: >Really- I mean it!  :) :)
:   The US is a *declining* global power.  Without a firm domestic policy there
: will be no need for a strong foreign policy if we are so deep in debt that 
: *we* will have to do what others say...

 There's alway's the fact that its a big economy with the biggest
 consumer market. If the US are doing really bad, Japan and Europe will
 suffer too. There's some sort of foreign interest in it!
: 
: >>  3. Out of control medical industry.
: 
: >But it is the best in the world.
: 
:   But it has zero value to someone who can't afford it.

Kind of reminds me of the situation over here in Germany. Our system
is less costly but expensive too. If you are searching for countries
with a really effective medical service, look in the scandinavian countries.
Denmark relly stands out in this area.

: 
: >I guess you don't rememeber BEFORE the last 12...with Jimmy Carter
: >and his policies resulting in double-digit unemployment, and
: >19% inflation and interest rates.  Woo woo.  Read: how NOT
: >to lead as President.
: 
:   20 years from now history will have a very different read on Carter and
: on Reagan/Bush...

Carter was better than you might think of him. And Reagen played
some tricks on him. Remember Iran/Contra ? And who destroyed the saving
and loan System (sp?- here in Germany called Sparkasse)? That was in my
eyes the worst thing the american government could do. They knew what 
would happen and didn't care. 

: 
:   Bank on it.
: 
:   -jack-

	
   nice amiga talk btw (-:)

		Thomas
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: let commodore speak
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:00:36 EST
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

-> That was sad... Real sad...  Sorry but Mr. Robinson is right... That
-> is just by the posting of this letter.... sigh... I agree with Mr.
-> Robinson.
->
-> Just my $0.02

 And that's all it's worth!

 While I do agree with some of what Mr. Robinson said Commodore deserves
the right to have their say. They also deserve the right to have a fair
review. Mr. Robinsons article was destructive. Not just to Commodore but
to the many Retailers and Consumers who handle Amiga products.

 People had a right to know that Commodore is a 1 billion dollar
company. They also  had a right to know that Commodore is till and will
continue to produce new hardware for the Amiga. The article was one
sided.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:37:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.190515.12765@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>Warner sold Atari to the Trameils, in return for a small promissory note.

   This kind of thing is popularly called a "leveraged buyout", where one
company purchases another company not with cash or equity but with debt.
Warner basically sold Atari to Tramiel inc. (a temporary holdings company
founded by J.T. with the expressed purpose of buying Atari) and lent the
money to Tramiel so that he could buy it.  It was very successful on Warner's
part, as Atari has paid back the debt in full, and Warner was rid of a 
subsidiary that was losing them  half a billion dollars a year.

>Atari itself has less than $40 million in cash... barely enough to cover
>overhead.  It needs to spend all of it in order to launch the Falcon and
>the Jaguar with any chance of sucess.  No billions floating around here...
>
>Would Atari be spending $15 million per year in R&D if Warner's billions
>were backing it?
>
>Nope.
>

   Actually, Warner is now called Time-Warner these days, since they merged
with the Time-Life corporation.

>Thom

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
From: dridi@choco.UUCP (Gilles Dridi ERF004)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amigas are cool; MP misunderstood...
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:35:34 GMT
Organization: None

In article <1992Jul28.222912.8025@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>In <dridi.034i@choco.UUCP> dridi@choco.UUCP (Gilles Dridi ERF004) writes:

>>    It's an utopia to think all programs are safe. Since the beginning
>>    until NOW this has never been the case.
>
>True. However, memory protection won't save you since the OS, like every
>piece of software, will have bugs. In my experience MP doesn't lead to
>better or safer software but to sloppy programming.

    So to speak, once MP included into an OS, it _Saves_ you time & money.

    In my experience MP...

      Certainly, an imcomprehensible OS bugs are due to illegal write and
    those, can easily be found when MP (the MMU) is activated.
    For instance: the Enforcer MMU program has been often used to debug
    early OS versions: 2.x.

      In fact, Enforcer do not really track illegals access (close to your
    memory allocation) and you'll have to use the very popular MungWall
    program instead.
    With this two programs, you can caught close and far illegal access but,
    it can still rest some illegal access somewhere after the wall or cookie,
    MungWall has installed.

--
Gilles Dridi
{cbmvax!cbmehq}!cbmfra!choco!dridi
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   Amiga Future?!?
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:45:38 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <gromyko.03p5@sputnik.rhein-main.de>, gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.121203.981@nic.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>>
>>But wait.  Nobody said you have to run Windows to have a useful
>>system.  I know a few people who are still using 8088 systems and are
>>quite happy running WordPerfect, Lotus, etc., on them.  These packages
>>run just fine, and are quite powerful and useful.

> Your are right. These machines run above mentioned software nicely.
> 386' and above may run the same software. More likely, they run
> Windows. Windows performs very poor even with better equipment.

Actually, despite the publicity that Windows has gotten and despite its
success in sales, the majority of 386 and 486 machines are still running
MS-DOS.

>>>	* bigger harddisk to store your few Windows Apps on

Several thousand is "few"?  You're right about the larger size of Windows
apps, though.  Along with that large size, you get additional functionality
and ease of use.

>>>	* faster harddisks to speed up swapping

No, just more memory for a larger disk cache.

>>All of this is available for well under $2500 from a top-notch dealer
>>(Dell 486P/33 - 486DX-33, 4MB RAM, 170MB 17ms HD, SVGA, $2199)
> 
> Nice price. But 4MB isn't enough to run Windows sufficiently. As I have
> mentioned earlier, to speed up graphic you need an 'intelligent' graphics
> board.  This will easily exceed the amount of $2199 :)

Well, actually, 4 MB is enough to run Windows.  I should know--that's the
amount I have in my machine.  Even so, you can add another 4 MB for $150
and the intelligent graphics board for $250.

> Well, I have the impression that the opportunity to run business software
> at home is of great importance to the PC user.

It depends on the user.  It was certainly not a factor in my decision.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 04:47:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.012214.3119@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> u1061038@keystone.arch.unsw.edu.au writes:
>Why repost this bullshit , is it not enough to go around the merry-go-round once already ?

Could people please read all their incoming news before replying?  We've
had about 10 responses to this post!  If you are using 'rn', just mark
all the articles you want to follow up to as unread (using the m key)
and continue reading.  When you reach the end of the newsgroup, all the
articles you were going to follow up to will be there, and you can
decide whether you still want to.  There is probably a similar method
you can use in nn.  It would save us all from reading the same thing
over and over again.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
From: rmast@cs.vu.nl (Mast RN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ik wil de Nederlanders !!
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:33:39 GMT
Distribution: eunet

De Amiga 500 met Kickstart 1.3 kost hier f779,-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: PC's are *total* kludges
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:45:43 GMT

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
: Really ?  I thought it was either a floor wax, or a dessert topping. :-)

No, at least floor wax shines, and dessert topping tastes good.
Windows is neither.  ;)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Presidential predictions Re: Perot?
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 14:02:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul25.130739.25878@Princeton.EDU>
  <1992Jul25.170853.23309@news.iastate.edu>

Hillery Clinton isn't even Hillery Clinton. She never changed her name
when she married.

Nothing wrong with that. She's a professional, and is/was known pro
fessionally by that name.

But how convenient for Bill that she uses a Pseudoname in public.

I swear that she wants to be president more than Bill does.
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Presidential predictions Re: Perot?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:01:06 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <dano.711761245@srl01> <Brsp87.209@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com>

Reagan used to regularly veto budgets from the democratic congress.

Used to stop the federal gov't in their tracks for a few days.

Did a lot of good with the runaway budget, didn't it?
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Amiga--Great computer--whens the secret gonna get out? Re: C= speaks!!!
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:46:13 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


> 
> Think about it... the Amiga is capable of any of these things... some of
> them even come from CBM.
> 
> Thom
> 

Does anyone but you and me and C= know about this.  Shesh, don't let
it out of the bag, it's all a secret.  That's why Amiga isn't
advertisd didn't you know..-); 
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka_
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cs902125@ariel.yorku.ca (SHUK C YIP)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:12:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.000946.6129@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>Okay, so the A500 and 386 system have roughly the same price.  That meets
>one of your comparison criteria.  They do not have roughly the same perform-
>ance or capabilities.  You may as well compare 386 systems to component
>stereo systems.
>

I don't think A500 and 386 system have roughly the same price. For the
price of A500, you just can get the 386 mother board unless you buy it
as second hand. However, A500 has already had 4096 colors, 4 channels 8
bit sound, all external port, floppy drive, mouse...

If you can buy AdSpeed,($149 from Montgomery, new) you will have the
power of low end 386 system.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gorrie@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Dennis Gorrie)
Subject: Dec + Amiga + Toaster
Originator: gorrie@hercules.cs.uregina.ca
Reply-To: gorrie@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Dennis Gorrie)
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:48:05 GMT


I killed all the noise and there was nothing left to read in this group!
Sheesh!

Anyways, I'm wondering what is the short term future for the Amiga? 
What new things can we expect by Xmas?  In particular I'm interested
in 33mhz 68040's (which I have already seen in HP 47x workstations).

Here is an interesting tidbit:  Dec is installing a 1600+ node network
at this university, with FDDI fibre to every building and every floor,
and ethernet to every machine that's not directly connected to the FDDI
ring (class A and B nodes).  Amiga's, which were re-packaged by NewTek,
as Toasters, have been re-packaged by DEC as Dec-multimedia-workstations.
Several of them will be set up around the university, connected to the
FDDI ring, to provide advertising and current events info. 

Any replies welcome.  E-mail is just fine.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:58:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.211936.1896@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>>
>>Besides being out of the discussion point, if half-OS (OS/2) need 
>>a *little* more hardware to run than windows, then it needs much more
>>hardware to run (just to run!) than AmigaDOS 2.04. And period.
>>
>
>So?  AmigaDOS 2.04 needs much more hardware to run (just to run!) than
>AtariDOS 2.0 on my old Atari 800!
>
>>
>>Don't 
>>start saying "You haven't seen it run!!" blah blah blah, you CAN'T
>>install it in a machine that's less than a 386DX-33 and hope for it to
>>run at an acceptable speed, but AmigaDOS can.
>>
>
>So?  You CAN'T install AmigaDOS in a machine that's less than a 68000
>and hope for it to run at an acceptable speed, but with AtariDOS you can!
>
>BTW, I guess I was wrong when I used OS/2 2.0 on a 386sx-16 and found it
>perfectly acceptable...
>
>>
>>You can't install it on a
>>machine with a 60Mb hard disk and hope to have enough disk space free
>>for some apps, and AmigaDOS can.
>>
>
>So?  You can't install AmigaDOS on a 90KB floppy diskette and hope to have
>enough space free for apps, but with AtariDOS you can!
>
>>
>>End of discussion.
>>
>
>Wise move.
>
>>
>>Gustavo Cordova Avila		| Majoring in Electronics & Computer Sciences
>>
>--
>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
>| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
>|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
>|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

I would venture that given two operating systems A & B, which had
roughly equivalent usefulness, then if one of them ran on 1/2 the
hardware that the other required, this would be considered a
positive point in its favor.  Therefore for your posting to have
any meaning, both operating systems compared should have been
equivalent in usefulness and functionality.  Not knowing anything
about this AtariDOS system, but keeping the above in mind, then I
would say this this AtariDOS system is great.  I will look into
buying one! :)

-- 
John G. Ata                     | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
Technical Consultant            |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!mercury!ata
HFS, Inc.		  VA20	|    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601 |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: LOADED LOADED LOADED Amiga system for sale!!!
Date: 24 Jul 1992 18:38:43 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <1992Jul22.152812.8812@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>	Or howabout-2400 baud external modem -$60  I saw one for $142 at a FLEA
>MARKET!! 

Let me get this straight:  You are asking -$60 for the modem, So you'll give me
$60 dollars to take it?

OK!

--Richard
From: catapcnl@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:47:07 GMT

Distribution: World

In article <1992Jul25.151610.9042@crash.cts.com> hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John  
Anderson) writes:
[comparison deleted]
:                                                                            
:I think the point here is that Jerry was saying that it's all relative to   
:the base machine you're comparing. You can always go lower and lower        
:to find an even less memory wanting machine. You can take that AtariDOS     
:90K machine and say that it won't fit on a 2K machine, but with Timex       
:SinclairDOS you can.                                                        
:                                                                            
:However, none of these operating systems rival the power of Kickstart or    
:OS/2. Kickstart compares very favorably to OS/2 in power. Kickstart is 512K 
:plus a few diskbased libraries and things, while OS/2 is tens of megabytes. 
:Both have a very nice GUI, CLI shells, multitask, give power to the user    
:should the user want it. etc. I think that's the point Gustavo was trying   
:to make. Kickstart is small, compact, efficient, and very fast compared to  
:OS/2, yet they rival each other in power.                                   
:                                                                            
:>>Gustavo Cordova Avila                                                     
:>Jerry J. Shekhel
:
:UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
:ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
:INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com

AmigaOS has the advantage in that you don't have to load it from disk (well, at  
least 90% of us don't...).  Also, try running OS/2 on a base-level PC system.   
It won't even run on the (relatively fast) VGA-based 386SX-16mhz clowns that  
are sold today at $1000, without another $500 of ram and a good sized HD for  
another $500.  The Amiga base system (as low as $500) can run KS 2.04, which  
matches up favorably to OS/2.
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to  
teenage boys."
     - P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"