From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Sheep in Organizations
Date: 25 Dec 92 21:05:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1992Dec25.130508.1
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <58017@dime.cs.umass.edu>, yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
> In article <1992Dec24.161708.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>Problem with what you are saying about land in trust and all that stuff, is
>>that is either fedalism in the old Norman model or god I hate to say it
>>Socialism.. Problme is we are supposed to be a democracy based on free person
> 
> Is it your opinion that National parks are unconstitutional?  There's no
> incompatibility between democracy and public ownership of some property.

Proplem is that some 75% of the land in Alasaka is either Federal or
State Government or Local Governments, of Native Corps. 
> 
>>and the ability to make wealth. Why would I go to the Welfare office? Im not a
>>brain dead pan handler from some parts of the US.. I work for my bread.
> 
> You're asking for a handout. You want the general public to give you our
> property for your private benefit. Why the hell should we? There are
> millions of acres of privately held land in Alaska. Earn some money and
> buy some instead of trying to grab our public land.

Yes there is some private land.. But have you ever tried to do anything with
much of it. Also by Alaska State Law you can't own the sub-surface rights to
the minerals available.. Question why does there have to be so much "Public"
land most is in places where you can't even get to unless you have a plane..and
even if you have a plane, you can't set foot on it..
> 
>>You must have me mistaken with some who lives back east.. As far as I know most
> Nah. I've run into plenty of people both in the East and the West who
> think that they deserve a big fat income courtesy of the public.
> 
I said I would not mind having land in the old fashion way (homestead) but that
is not to say that I deserve it... 

> 
> No. I mean that National Parks are for the benefit of all americans and 
> public property should not be given away. 
> 
Question is how did this "Public Property" come about? And why must the FED
own land anyway? I wonder how money the GOV pays to upkeep/maintain FEDERAL
land that they don't need to maintain. Turn most or all over to the States or
the Public.. 

>>When the founding fathers started our nation is was becuase of economic
>>reasons, they were all land owners.. Do you think they would liek it that they
>>did not own the land, but were only borrowing it.. Read up what feudalism is
>>and you find what Im talking about..
> 
> Tom Paine was not. Ever heard of him? But you should read some works by
> the founding fathers if you want to invoke them. For example, you might want
> to read Jefferson's letters to Monroe on land ownership. He explicitly
> dismisses the theory that ownership of land should entitle the land owner
> to use it up or to do with it whatever he/she pleases. Maybe Jefferson
> was a, god I hate to say it, *socialist*. 
> 
Did they all not earn their bread on land, also did not Tom Jefferson own
slaves... Maybe I should read the letters.. I try to keep an open mind.. I just
get annoyed when to build a road, dam, or anyting to benefit the local
population, you have to fill out a 400+ page environmental impact statement,
and that drives the price of the project up thru the roof.. 

> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
> 
As I say again, do I meddle in your politics of your state? If I don't have the
courtesy to not meddle in the polictics of my state. And that includes all
lands therein.. 


Michael Adams
Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel 
nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu