HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Exegetical question on Devarim 1,2
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:57:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.173152.24011@cca.vu.nl> henk@ruben.th.vu.nl
(Henk Harmsen) writes:

>1. Which of the two makes most sense?

Rav Aryeh Kaplan (z"l) in his "Living Torah" (Maznaim Publishing,
NY/Jerusalem, 1985) says that Jewish commentators offer three
explanations regarding the place names in verse 1:

	1. That these are places surrounding the Aravoth Moab where
	   the Israelites were now camped.

	2. That they were places along the way, where Moses presented
	   these orations  (Chizzkuni and Abarabanel)

	3. That they were places regarding which Moses spoke in his
	   orations

Rav Kaplan favored the second interpretation in his translation.

>3. Does anybody happen to know the actual distance?

Rav Kaplan says it is 150 miles.

-- 
---

Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (preferred address)
moskowit@panix.com (alternate address)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:09:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul30.021338.26993@wixer.cactus.org> lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
>In article <5674@nosc.NOSC.MIL> mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross) wri
>tes:
>>Last week's Torah portion, Pinchas, which was read at synagogues all
>>over the world seems to support the death penalty for the described
>>circumstance.
>
>And what about "Thou Shalt Not Kill"?  Last time I checked, _that_ came from
>the Bible, too.  And while supporters of the death penalty can play nifty
>semantic games which somehow differentiate between the meaning of "kill" and
>"execute", both actions are the taking of human life.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! nonononononononono!

The Bible does NOT say "thou shalt not kill".  It says "Thou shalt not
MURDER".  The words are different in Hebrew and in English.  One
implies killing anything (including animals, plants, and even
insects), the other specifically means the taking of a human life in
an illegal way (not by court order or in war).  The bible not only
allows, but requires the taking of human life as punishment for
certain crimes, and in times of war.


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: BAtman returns
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:16:47 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: davis@reaumur.ilog.fr (Harley Davis)

In article <DAVIS.92Jul27184836@reaumur.ilog.fr>, davis@reaumur (Harley Davis) writes:
>		  The Pinguin is the archtype Jewish villlian, seeking to
>   kill the first born children of Gotham city.  Jewish sterotype
>   merchant cheating people with cheap Xmas trinkets....  etc... etc...

>This is garbage.  The movie had no reference to Jews, subtle or overt.

What's a reference?  If a Nazi propagandizes about people with big noses
and lots of money secretly controlling things, you know whom they mean.

>But you can have any fun you want to with this sort of thing.

That is more accurate.  Jewish themes are part of our cultural heritage,
and references to them are impossible to avoid.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Centrality of Men/Women (Was Re: Inheritance of Jewish
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:28:30 GMT

In <9207201152.AA10851@nysernet.ORG> RSPS707@HAIFAUVM.BITNET writes:

>JUST PUBLISHED
>ORIGINAL SINS : REFLECTIONS ON THE HISTORY OF ZIONISM AND ISRAEL
>Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi

This is the third time that I've seen this book annoucement today.
Each time under a different thread.  I seem to have missed what it has
to do with "Centrality of Men/Women".
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire ***		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold carrot.
 |warren@      But the farmer
/ nysernet.org is worried.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Subject: Koran References on Understanding
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:41:32 GMT

I have been asked by a colleague to gather some information for
him to present on Religious diversity, understanding and tolerance.

He says he remembers a quote from the Koran on Understanding and
Tolerance.  If any of the listmembers have some helps or citations,
please write him at

Ed@Housing.MsState.Edu

His name is Ed Grandpre'.

Thank you very much.


--
Bill Chapman <BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>   (601) 325-2042
Computing Consultant <wcc1@Msstate.bitnet> P.O. Box 1262
Dept. of Housing & Residence Life          Mississippi State, MS  39762
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Discovery
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:48:14 GMT

About discovering hidden codes:

I wonder if anyone has devised the following experiment:  Take a large
Hebrew text, such as the Torah.  It must have at least 100 000 letters,
probably more.  Now, take a short, say 6 to 10 letter word.  What is the
probability that you WON'T find the word "hidden" in the text using the
Discovery methods?

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:53:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Jul26.043801.24901@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.031539.16521@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>I do not advocate that other people violate the halachic code; that's
>>up to them and I don't approve of my, your, the local rabbi's, or any-
>>one else's attempting to sway the decision either way.

>This is bad. If you think that halacha is wrong, then, people following the 
>halacha on that point are not following God's given law.
>You should make them realize their mistake. After all, there should be a 
>reson for God giving the Jews his law.

God gave some law to the Jews.  Not all of the exegesis comes from God, and
different people will have different interpretations.  

Even within Orthodoxy, there are different halakhot.  There are differences
between the Ashkenazim and Sephardim, which are not mere trivia.

>Religion is not a personal matter, it includes God, the religious person and 
>his/her community. 

So who decides how to interpret God's message?  In each generation, there
must be fresh discussion, discarding that which does not fit with our 
knowledge.  It is not just knowledge of what previous sages said; in
every other field of knowledge, the words of even the greatest men are
continually being rejected as just plain wrong.

And in the end, it is the individual who must decide.

>>>So, are you violating halacha or what?

>>In some cases, yes. Those are the cases where I think it is an incorrect
>>assessment of what Torah means. But I don't push others to do so.

There are parts of halakha which even the Orthodox have discarded.

>Well, I believe that the current law about intermarriage is not what the 
>Torah means. I have never made anybody marry anybody else. Actally, I oppose 
>marriage as an institution. However, I hate when people come and say that
>intermarriage is killing my culture or something like that. 

We have at least one case in the Tanakh where intermarriage seems to have
occurred, and there seems to be no stigma attached to it.  Considering the
subsequent events, this does not seem to have hurt Judaism.

Despite Ezra, the returning exiles did not "put away their foreign wives,
and the children who know not our tongue."  This does not seem to have had
any adverse effect.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:55:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Jul28.105517.68701
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

   In article <1992Jul22.220540.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
   >
   > I'm looking for an apartment in Gilo Bet in Jerusalem for mid sept to mid
   > october for a couple.  If you know of any possbility, please respond to 
   > taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu or in J'lem call Lenn Schramm at 63 01 38 
   > during the day.  

   Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied
   territories. 

What about the Mt. Scopus campus of Hebrew University?

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:46:25 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Jul28.153259.18153@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

|> 
|> The Gemoroh states that he who is kind when he is supposed to be
|> cruel will be cruel when he is supposed to be kind.  Shaul left
|> Agag alive which led to Haman.  He was punished for this by losing
|> the kingdom.

Although Saul left Agag alive, I thought that he took
him prisoner and that Samuel then killed Agag.  So how
did Saul's action lead to Haman?

Did Agag conceive descendants between the time
Saul took him prisoner but failed to kill him
and the time Samuel killed him?  Or have I
misremembered something?

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Shabbetai Tzvi's continuing legacy
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:20:55 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

> 1990 Jewish census
> We're very heavy into baby boomers...

Well, of course.  One reason for this is the Holocaust.  After the Nazis
(y"s) destroyed almost a third of our number, we've been trying to make
up for lost time.  And we seem to be succeeding, despite intermarriage.
From a postwar world Jewish population of 14 million, as of 1987, we 
were almost at 18 million.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu

P.S. And intermarriage is a big drain on Jewish population.  According
to the NY Times this year, only 43% of Jews marry other Jews.  It
crossed 50% sometime in the mid-1970s.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Why I gave up on my People (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:26:17 GMT

In article <_-jm_ah.madhaus@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>
>I hope most of the Jews reading this group are more enlightened
>than David, and that the "Us first, everyone else last or not at all"
>attitude I grew up with is purged from the collective consciousness.

I do not about the others. I am not the onw who uses we to express myself.
I believe that the question is: Can we change the world by just looking at
ourselves? Can we finish with the segregation that has caused so much pain 
to us, if we do not work to stop all kind of segregation?
I believe that we will be free when all are free.
I believe that we, as Jews, cannot look around trying to help only ourselves. 
When we
help South African blacks to end segregation, we are helping ourselves to
never suffer another Holocaust.
I believe that we must join others and work together. 
There is a lot of talk about black anti-semitism. We should try to change it to work with them to end racism.
The idea that "we can put ourselves first", I believe, is just an ilusion.
Unless the idea is: We have to get together with all the others suffering
from the same we are suffering, we will not put ourselves first. We will just
kill ourselves.
I believe that we should join forces with all other groups who fell 
segregation. And, above all, end segregation from one group on another 
group, whithin the Jewish community. We should find the most urgent points
to solve, and solve them first. 
Accusing those who are secular or intermarried is just bigotry.
I hope we will join women, blacks, etc, on the way to end segregation.  


>-- 
>Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
>Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.
>
>Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553


                             |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
               |\/\/\/|      |    Alberto A. Pinkas (aka AAP)     |
               |      |      |      insultos y comentarios        |  
               |      |      |     a aap@wam.umd.edu              |
               | (o)(o)      |  recomendaciones para medicos      |
               C      _)     |       a ap31@umail.und.edu         |
                | ,___|   <==|____________________________________|
                |   / 
               /____\            " Don't have a cow man. "
              / _____\ 




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:22:13 GMT

In <3876@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D. Thorne) writes:

>My life is not ruined by the rejection of O halacha by the CR 
>movements and CR Jews should not need O approval.  If a C 
>hecsher for swordfish is sufficient then why do C 
>converts/divorces/halacha need an O hecsher?  That's not 
>being polemical, just practical.

Hear hear!  There is, however, one eminently practical problem: In
Israel, people who marry or convert in the C or R streams face many
problems.  If the Israeli govt. allowed C and R to perform marriages
and conversions in Israel, then most of the practical problems would
disappear, and everyone could live together more happily. :-)?

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ward@sun1.vlsi.waterloo.edu (Paul Ward)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:58:20 GMT

In article <55135@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>In each generation, there
>must be fresh discussion, discarding that which does not fit with our 
>knowledge.  

This may or may not be a good principle; it has rarely, if ever, been
tried.  What invariably happens is that in each generation things are
discarded without discussion because they are "old ideas" and do not
fit "modern realities".

Paul
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: New Jersey Kashrut Laws Declared Unconstitutional
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:18:39 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

David Charlap writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:
>>The NJ Supreme Court, ruling on a case involving the butcher I
>>go to, voted 4-3 that the NJ kashrut laws violate the separation
>>of church and state.
>....
>>While I don't know the details, the issues were over points that
>>various Rabbis will give various opinions on; the court case was
>>whether the state could enforce a specific set of Rabbinical opinions.
>
>This is a bad miscarriage of Justice.  The Rabbis are not dictating
>law.  The law simply states that products labeled as Kosher must
>actually be Kosher.  No crossing of church/state here.  The Rabbi is
>an expert witness who knows the laws of Kashrut.  Certainly, the court
>doen't think that a lawyer with no knowledge of judaism is more
>qualified than a Rabbi to clearly define what the laws of Kashrut are.

I think regular readers of this net know that the definition of
"kosher" is not cut and dry.  The proof we have, right here on SCJ,
are the discussions over which heckshers are "reliable".

We also know, and again stories are posted right here on SCJ, that
one of the favorite pastimes of meshgiach's is to plant rumors about
the unreliability of someone else.

From early articles involving the butcher in question, some of the
issues were "technical" in nature (that is, some Rabbis would have
certified the meat; others wouldn't), so it wasn't a clear-cut issue
of kosher or treif, and one of the issues the NJ Supreme Court had
to decide was whether the state could enforce a religious interpretation
of religious law.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: 5% bugs in ketchup!
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:59:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <92205.131410CARIAN@auvm.american.edu> CARIAN@auvm.american.edu (RABBI CHARLES ARIAN) writes:
>If the bugs are ground up it probably makes no difference to the
>kashrut. Only whole bugs (briah) are forbidden.

This is slightly misleading.  "Briah" is one of the categories to which
nullification by 1/60th does not apply.  Thus a pot of soup with even a single
whole bug in it is treif, even if the pot is the size of a room.

Once ground up, bugs are no longer "briah" but just ordinary treif stuff, so
their (inadvertent) presence in quantities less than 1/60th may not make the
overall food item treif.  Whether there is a problem depends on the details;
presumably in the case of kosher-certified foods such as Heinz ketchup the
details are such that the food is still kosher.

Under no circumstances is it okay to blithely add ground-up bugs to food and
assume the result is still kosher.  (I presume Rabbi Arian knows this, but his
wording could be taken to imply that it is okay.)

   Robert
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Linguistic Purity (was Re: Hidden agenda?)
Date: 20 Jul 92 14:59:43 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <2267@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
>
>>Akademia is from Greek.  But so is gemmatria, and even Sanhedrin.
>>I believe all of these were used 2000 years ago in the Jewish state.
>
>Gematria and Sanhedrin were used 2000 years ago, I don't think
>akademia was.  But the Sanhedrin did not have, as its mission, to make
>sure that everyone was speaking Hebrew rather than other languages
>(just as well, since they were speaking Aramaic, for the most part).
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not the case.
Members of sanhedrin were supposed to know languages but the
language that was spoken by the Sanhedrin was  Hebrew.
Even much latter Hebrew was spoken in Eretz Yisrael.
the Eretz-yisrael-talmud is written in Hebrew.


Shalom   Gideon Ehrlich   Eretz Tisrael


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: markr@mot.com (Mark)
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: MCIL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 04:12:42 GMT

In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.220540.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>>
>> I'm looking for an apartment in Gilo Bet in Jerusalem for mid sept to mid
>> october for a couple.  If you know of any possbility, please respond to 
>> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu or in J'lem call Lenn Schramm at 63 01 38 
>> during the day.  
>
>Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.
>--
>Yigal Arens

And why would that have any bearing on a person needing an apartment there for
a few monthes ?  (not to mention asking why either of these articles are in s.c.j)

mark
markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ed16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Etan Shalom Diamond)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Social history of Israeli army
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:36:19 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Someone in my class asked me to post this request:

Does anyone know of a good (or bad) social history of the Israeli army
or social histories of any of the Israeli wars?

he does not just want standard general's memoirs or strategic/tacitcal
accounts of war, but rather something that focuses on the social aspects
of the military or war's effects on society.

please e-mail me or post it on the net. 

Thanks

------
Etan Diamond
Dept. of History
Carnegie Mellon University
ed16@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:16:34 GMT
	<1992Jul26.214408.18665@umbc3.umbc.edu>
	<LERNER.92Jul26182033@division.cs.columbia.edu>
	<55213@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<LERNER.92Jul27212841@division.cs.columbia.edu>
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41

In article <LERNER.92Jul27212841@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>      PLEASE, DO ME THE COURTESY OF NOT CLAIMING THAT CARBON 14 DATING AND THE
>      LIKE IS A "DIRECT OBSERVATION".  HOW MANY PIECES OF ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT 
>      ARE IN USE IN  A C14 DATING OR THE OTHER PURPORTED "DIRECT OBSERVATIONS"
>      WHICH ESTABLISH?  IT IS A DERIVED CALCULATION,  NOT A DIRECT OBSERVATION.
>      WERE YOU THERE WITH A NOTEBOOK?  

How many pieces of electronic equipment separate your typing from your
perceived audience?  And yet you expect us to make sense out of your
nonsense.  Perhaps you should visit us individually and explain your
views.  Please bring your notebook.

--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish