HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markd@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Mark Diamond)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 08:36:02 GMT

Our library too has a system for preventing the theft of books.  I am
not an electronics guru, but so far as I can tell, there are in fact two
components to the system .. you must remember that legitimately borrowed
library books must be prevented from triggering the system, but that
they must be re-sensitized when they are returned; also, that one does
not want 'non-book' bits of metal from triggering the alarm.  So here
goes for an explanation.

(1) Each book does contain a small (thin) metal strip.  It is not
inserted in the spine as such; rather, it is inserted within the book,
jammed in between two pages right up agains the spine.  Usually the
alarm manufacturer produces these metalic strips so that they are
sandwiched between two equally long and skinny pieces of paper.  The
paper is sticky on the outside so that when the strip is inserted
against the spine of the book (inside between the pages) and the book is
close, the glue sticks to the two pages.  The pages then do not
subsequently open quite as far as they used to (about 3 mm less), but
equally, the strip is very difficult to see.  Easiest way to detect it
is to open the book at each page and kind of stretch the spine back.
This causes the glue to come away from the strip.
(2)	The actual detection system depends on two things.  Firstly, the
size (length) of the metalic strip is chosen so that it "tunes" the
circuit formed by the upright detectors.  This is just the same as when
you stop your car at the traffic lights ... usually your car then sits
within a loop of wire under the road surface, the car causes the circuit
to resonate correctly, and the traffic lights are set to change.
(3)	The next thing is that the strip of metal is magnetic material
(not aluminium).  When the book is "sensitized" the strip is magnetized.
When the book is "desensitized", the strip is demagnetized.
(4)	This means that the detection system is not triggered by any old
magnet.  Equally, it isn't triggered by any old bit of metal of the
right length.  It IS triggered by a strip of metal of the right length
to tune the circuit, that is ALSO magnetized.
(5)	The system can be defeated (CRUDELY) by removing the metal
strips from along the spine.  If the library permits the carrying in of
bags, then lining your bag with a ferrous-metal mesh (like fly screen)
will probably also defeat the system since it effectively shields the
strips from the detector.  For those of you who have not worked it out,
both of these systems are anti-social, and theft generally is a felony.
I do not advocate it.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Opening a Deadbolt (Request for Advice)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:13:36 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Sep10.125411.6932@samba.oit.unc.edu> Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins) writes:
>In article <1992Sep09.231642.34617@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
> ...
>>If it's a Kwickset, try using a slap-hammer to yank out the
>>cylinder.   ...
>
>What is a "slap-hammer"?  how does it work?  
>Is this tool home-made or store-bought?

  Go to your local auto parts and supplies store and ask to see their
burglar^H^H^H^H^H^H^H  err, body tools, and take a look at something
called a "dent-puller" or "slap-hammer" or "slam-hammer".  They come
in many sizes (usually rated by the weight of the "hammer" part)
with a number of attachments at the business end - you want the
common/cheap one - a screw.  This tool is cheap enough that you
would want to buy one rather than try to make it.

  Its potential for use in locksmithing should be obvious.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:58:11 GMT

tracker@wpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar) writes:
: 
:  On other hole models there is a 'true' pin system, where it does
: actually push certain pins. I would think that this would be difficult
: to pick, due to the sheer number of pins present, and the arrangement.
: There were about 30 holes in my cardkey, I think it was a Schlage
: brand cardlock...I could be wrong. 
: 
:  Granted, there are problems with both of these systems, and ways they
: can be bypassed. The former one can be outdone by collecting enough
: keys, and stacking them up. What's left is a pattern of holes that's
: the base pattern for the master key. Normally they modify that by
: putting one hole in an obscure corner, just to annoy you.

I don't understand.  If the master key setup is done right, then there
is not way you can find the master combination by analyzing the key
hole pattern. If there is one master key for the building, and all the
pins mastered, then it is no different than a change key - except it
happens to open all the locks, since each lock is keyed for the master
plus one particual change key.

In other words - if the master system is set up correctly, then there
is no way that analyzing any number of pass keys will produce the master
combination. That is because the master combination just appears to be
another change key.

:  They normally keep the keys for the pin-card system, so you can't
: stack them too easily to check for patterns. It would be incredibly
: simple to make copies of either kind of key though.

See above, it wouldn't do any good if you could.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:57:20 GMT

In article <18nfinINN1qv@bigboote.WPI.EDU> tracker@wpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar) writes:
>rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson) writes:
>>I don't know a whole lot about locks but I recently went to Disney World with
>>a friend and the room keys we were given were simply these plastic cards
>>with some holes punched in them.  Would it be all that hard to pick one 
>>of these kind of locks?  Just curious (no I don't plan to break in to 
>>hotel rooms). 
>
> On some models, those holes let LEDs emitted on one side pass through to the
>detectors on the other. If you block certain holes, the door won't
>open. It would be rather hard to pick, unless you could get something
>back towards the solenoid and move that. They're reasonably easy to
>disassemble from the front if the door is open, but when they took
>apart the one in my hotel room (No, I didn't do anything to it, the
>emitter batteries died.) it took them a good 5-10 minutes. And those
>are people that know exactly what they're doing. Well, at least they
>thought so.
>
> On other hole models there is a 'true' pin system, where it does
>actually push certain pins. I would think that this would be difficult
>to pick, due to the sheer number of pins present, and the arrangement.
>There were about 30 holes in my cardkey, I think it was a Schlage
>brand cardlock...I could be wrong. 
>
> Granted, there are problems with both of these systems, and ways they
>can be bypassed. The former one can be outdone by collecting enough
>keys, and stacking them up. What's left is a pattern of holes that's
>the base pattern for the master key. Normally they modify that by
>putting one hole in an obscure corner, just to annoy you.
>
> They normally keep the keys for the pin-card system, so you can't
>stack them too easily to check for patterns. It would be incredibly
>simple to make copies of either kind of key though.
>
>-Tracker
>
>

I encountered a similar system in Reno some years ago except that it
used a magnetic striped card, rather a cheap flimsy affair.  The desk
clerk said to let them know if we lost one of the keys and they would
change the code.  I finally found out that the locks were actually
computer controlled and the cards were encoded at the checkin desk.
There were also no room numbers or the name of the hotel on the card.
That one sounds impossible to pick, and would also allow changing the
master codes on an hourly basis if need be.  Or even just assigning
each employee a personal code and enabling access on as as needed
basis.
 
Dennis
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: ABUS Granite
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:18:52 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <1992Sep3.184541.24079@alf.uib.no>, 
Hakon Gjessing writes:
 
 G> I have a lock for my motorcycle wich is manufactured in West Germany and
 G> is called ABUS Granite Plus. I bought it some years ago when my bike had
 G> been stolen and luckily recovered. 
 G> The salesman told me it was the strongest lock available (as they often do!),
 G> that it was protected against drilling and that it was virtually impossible
 G> to pick. I myself have never seen any lock looking stronger than this one,
 G> but this one is quite popular.
 [blabla]
 G> In short, is it as safe as it looks? 
 G> If not, which lock is the safest for motorcycles?

 This lock's my favourite ! I've bought two of 'em and am still very 
 statisfied. They are strong, virtually unpickable, and they don't rust because
 of the plastic outsides. The only way someone would be able to open these, is
 either with a key or with TNT (Or maybe an industrial drill).
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason)
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:06:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.234131.29040@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.233828.21112@cco.caltech.edu>
>pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) writes:
>
>>4. The key I was given enters the code for the key of the next user.
>>I'm a little vague about this, but the implication was clearly
>>that they do not need to go to the room to change the key for
>>the next occupant. 
>
>The way this works is, the microprocessor "knows" about a sequence of
>change keys (say, 20 of them).  When key #n+1 is used, key #n becomes
>invalid and no longer works.  Thus, the staff only has to physically
>visit the door every 20 guests.  There are also special keys, for
>instance, there's one that tells the microprocessor "back up one key".
>
>Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com

Thanks Seth.  Do you know who makes them and are they in common use?
What protection is provided against a smart thief who carries his
own reader/programming unit?  A password? 
Peter Mason
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 17:24:23 EDT
From: The Computer.... <MABBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Wanted: no. and addr. of locksmithing stores..


Hello:

    A long time ago, someone posted the number to a store where they
had gotten their lockpicking kit from.  I had it but now it appears
that I have lost it.  Can anyone send me a number to a store that
sells lockpicks??  I would appreciate it also if the store has a
catalog...  Any help is appreciated....Also is it possible for the
responses to be sent to me in order to avoid crowded bandswidth..

Thanks in advance..

*======================================================================*
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Bitnet      <== Bitnet                                  *
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Cuny.Edu    <== Internet                                *
*======================================================================*
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Mushroom pins
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:36:33 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

How does one pick a lock with mushroom or pins?



-- 
ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)

MS-Windows NT:              Disclaimer:  I speak for
                            myself.
Better DOS than Windows,
Better Windows than DOS.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Subject: Re: Schlage Electronic keys
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:42:52 GMT

In article <23242@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, crussell@samson.hac.com (Chris Russell) writes:
> I just got one of those credit-card style keys for the electronic doors
> at work.  You don't have to insert the card into a slot or slide it
> through a reader --- the key is recognized by simply placing it FLAT against
> a detection plate.  (The plate can even be in the other side of a window.)
> 
> The system is made by Schlage Electronics.  Does anyone know how it works?

They had one of these at the last place I worked.  I believe they use RF
(radio waves) to read the card.  Not only can the plate be behind
glass, but many times the card can be read while it is still inside a
wallet.  Employees would often just hold their wallets up to the
detection plate to open the door.  (This trick only worked about 30% of
the time for me, so I would usually take my card out of my wallet.)

The cards themselves contain some sort of electronic assembly, as they
are quite thick (about .1") and consist of a sheet of PC board material
sandwiched between two sheets of plastic.  Where I worked, each employee
had his/her personal card, so Big Brother could tell who came to work
when :-(.  The doors were only locked outside of normal business hours,
however, so BB could only tell when you came/left if it was overtime
or on weekends.  But I digress.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Protecting Door Frames
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:51:42 GMT

As I understand it, one way to open a door is to "open" the door frame
a bit with a car jack or other device.  Apart from sensors, strong
frames (with bracing), and long lock bolts, what measures are used
to thwart this entry method?

-andy

--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: johnh@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (John Haddy)
Subject: Re: Aussie Key design
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:07:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.001155.20246@newshost.anu.edu.au>, jdb@arp.anu.edu.au (John D. Barlow) writes:
|> 
|> We use these at my work.  The key has the following markings
|> on it:
|> 
|> 	BiLock
|> 	Australia
|> 	regd. key system do not duplicate

|> side view:
|> 
|> 	|``---...
|> 	|        ``---...
|> 	|                ``` ----_____  ____  ______  ______
|> 	|                             \/    `'      \/      \
|> 	|                                                    \
|> 	|_____________________________________________________\
|> 
|> end views (x-section of side view):
|> 	______
|> 	|    | -plastic
|> 	|    |
|> 	|    |            ------
|> 	||  ||            ||  ||               ||  ||
|> 	||  || -metal     ||  ||               ||  ||
|> 	||__||            ||__||               ||__||
|> 	`----'            `----'               `----'
|> 
|> I have seen these used in our office (as standard door-locks) and I have
|> seen advertising for these in automotive alarm systems (after market
|> add-ons to the inside of your car).
|> 
We recently purchased a government approved classified document cupboard which
has one of these locks fitted standard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      |  _  |_   _   |_|  _   _|  _|              Electronics Department
    |_| (_) | | | |  | | (_| (_| (_| \/           School of MPCE
    ---------------------------------/-           Macquarie University
                                                  Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109

    Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:15:38 GMT

In article <BuDn4s.L6p@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mkohlhaa@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mike) writes:
> Could someone please post or e-mail me the FAQ or it's archived location?

The file is available for anonymous FTP at atlas.ce.washington.edu, in
the directory /pub/alt.locksmithing.  The file is named faq.txt.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:39:01 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <5566@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, Robert L Williamson writes:

 R> I don't know a whole lot about locks but I recently went to Disney World with
 R> a friend and the room keys we were given were simply these plastic cards
 R> with some holes punched in them.  Would it be all that hard to pick one 
 R> of these kind of locks?  Just curious (no I don't plan to break in to 
 R> hotel rooms). 
 
 I saw these cards in Sweden too. I didn't have much time too look at it, but 
 the locks looked mechanical to me. It wouldn't be too difficult to pick them 
 (i *think*), and copying should be even easier.
 On the other hand, the hotel-staff will be able to 'rekey' the lock in case
 of a lost card.
 
                  TD
From: steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Top Changwatchai)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Request for FAQ
Date: 8 Sep 92 08:41:20 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Is there an FAQ list for this newsgroup?  If so, could someone please e-mail
it to me at
  steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu?

Thanks,
Top


-- 
steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
"I'm gonna live forever or die trying."
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: 86b0062@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Sam Lander)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Master keys - how do they work?
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:20:34 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

I am completely new to locks, excuse me if this is too much of a FAQ, but 
    could someone please explain how "master" keys work?

When I picture a barrel lock I think of a series of pins split along their
lengths that have to be pushed up just the right amount so that the breaks
in their bodies all line up with the edge of a cylinder that then can turn
with the key. (? close enough ?)

Well then, what does a master key do? In particular, in this building each
floor has its own master key, they is not one single one. All the doors
have exactly the same make of lock it seems, a "lockwood schlage" deadlock.

When I buy a very similar looking lock for my front door, how can I be sure
that the would-be thief would actually have to pick the lock rather than just
turn it with a master key (presumably from a small set of such keys)? I 
realise from the discussion here that relying on the lock being difficult too
pick in the first place might be a mistake, but the question still stands. 
(Presumably picking the lock is at least a difficult, slow and/or suspicion-
arousing task)


Sam Lander

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sam Lander, Department of Psychology, University of New South Wales, Australia.
86b0062@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au or 90b1182@csd3090.csd. ... Phone 61 2 697 3030.
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Aussie Key design
Date: 12 Sep 1992 20:23:08 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Distribution: world
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

A vender showing other things had some high-security locks and
keys from Down Under. Here's a stab at what they look like:

end view:
		| 
		| |
		|_|

side view:

		^--^\_/-^-^

In short, from the side it's conventional, with a web at one
end, except you are looking at two sets of cuts, one on each 
vertical surface. 

Has anyone else seen these? The vender says they are unpopular,
mainly because the keys tend to saw holes in pockets ;_]
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 5 Sep 92 20:29:37 GMT

rdale@cstp.umkc.edu writes:
>However, the software store which has these apparently doesn't use it -- I see
>no indication that they've run it over a demagnetizer.

Let's *hope* they don't run your disks over a demagnetizer.. it will decrease
their value substantially if you just paid big money for the software.


And chad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Charles Dignes) writes:
>It's far easier to just pass the issued books *round* the side of the scanner
>gate.  This also removes the need for the librarian to re-enable the tags on
>returned books, a time consuming task which renders the whole system pointless
>if books are missed.

It doesn't render the system pointless unless it's easy for the patrons to tell
which books have been missed.  A 90% chance of detection when stealing a book
is basically as good as an 100% one, assuming that the object is to dissuade
theft attempts rather than to catch thieves in the act.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: charles@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Benjamin Roosen)
Subject: Opening a Deadbolt (Request for Advice)  
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:15:09 GMT

Greetings,

I am looking for some quick advice about locks.  I apologize if this post is
outside the focus of this group.  Please point me to the FAQ if appropriate.

I have lost the key to a deadbolt lock (I think it's a Kwikset).  If it doesn't
turn up in a day or two I guess I'll call a locksmith to get it open.  My
questions are:

1.  How big a job is opening a deadbolt?  Can it be picked relatively easily?

2.  Once I get it open what are my options in terms of rekeying?  Is it 
    straightforward to make a new key for a lock, or do I need to replace 
    either the cylinder or the whole lock?  Is a new cylinder something I can
    get at a hardware store and put in myself?  As long as someone's coming
    out to open the door should I have them rekey, or is it much cheaper to
    just do something myself?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.

Cheers,
Charles Roosen
charles@playfair.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Organization: large
Date: 5 Sep 1992 20:05:24 EDT
Expires: 1 Apr 93 12:34
Subject: dealing with complete novices
From: hobbit@babyoil.ftp.com (*Hobbit*)

When someone asks me how picking works, and seems confused by the principle,
I offer them the three-doorknob problem, and the companion Big Hint if they
need it.

You are in front of a door with three doorknobs, spaced such that your hand
[and the rest of your forearm] cannot span the distance between any two.  The
door opens inward, so you can't fiddle with the latches.  You have two hands,
and you are not allowed to use your feet or any tools.  How do you open the
door?

The Big Hint is that it is permissible to push against the door, with your
shoulder or something.  With sufficient discussion, even the seriously
clue-challenged will realize that one of the latches will stick open
and you can then let go of its knob.

_H*