HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grover@emunix.emich.edu (Grover Thomas)
Subject: Re: Does apple ][ GS software work using the apple ][ emulator
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 10:47:57 GMT

In article <Dec18.194124.83750@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller) writes:

>FYI, Apple has announced that they have stopped all production (and I imagine
>all support) on the IIgs line.  They still will continue to produce IIe's.
>This might be a wise time to look into another platform to develop on.

FYI, Jeff, Apple has not been selling many GSes for years, so this announce-
ment is no big deal to II owners.  Secondly, Apple II DTS is still very active
in Apple II support, with System 6.0.1 coming out soon along with the
MS-DOS File System Translator and the Apple II Ethernet card.

>Tom Weishaar? From Beagle Bros.?  Beagle Bros. is dead. 

Beagle Bros. Apple II development is now owned by Quality Computers, who
is busy updating several Beagle products, including a new Grammer checker.
Beagle killed themselves by thinking they could just walk into the Mac
arena and make tons of money [so much for your "change platforms" argument].

>Who's talking about fun?  We're talking productivity here.

"Productivity" can be flexible in the terms of each user.  I think a game
game that stimulates creative thought (or relaxes you after a really
nasty exam) could be considered productive.

The learning curve of a machine is also important to productivity. That's
why my wife prefers this old Apple IIgs instead of any IBM, because she
knows she can use it without constantly asking me how to make the programs
work.

Many public schools rely on their old Apple IIs for computing needs. Since
few have money to totally change platforms, there is still a TON of educ.
software being produced each year for these machines, especially by MECC
and Sunburst.  These are still productive for those children.
[This is also a very strong argument for a good Apple II emulator that can
run on cheap PCs, to save software investments.  Schools are resisting
expensive Macs.]
-- 
 __                                                                        __
(__)  Grover Thomas                   InterNet:  grover@emunix.emich.edu  (__
(__)                                                                      (__)
(__)                                                                      (__)
From: alsu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alan Su)
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Subject: Re: Making disk images (was: Re: Apple2 emulator for the PC)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:22:11 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.234.31
Keywords: apple2 emulator dos pc

In article <Bz8r7A.CGD@rice.edu> jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu (Jim Wong) writes:
|>In article <1ghckmINNkrk@agate.berkeley.edu> alsu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alan Su) writes:
|>>   Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
|>>I'd be extremely grateful to anyone who could somehow get me an image of
|>>this game...Thanks.
|>
|>You could always buy the game and make a disk image yourself...
|>
I guess this is what I'm asking.  Where can I get a hold of the disk image
*or* the actual Apple ][ disk for BCW?  I can't find it anywhere.  (Where do
you get Apple ][ format games anyway?!?)  Thanks.
-- 
-alan su
-alsu@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: tombaker@world.std.com (Tom A Baker)
Subject: Re: speed of apple2em
Organization: Me, at The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:35:11 GMT

In article <1glhpgINN870@koh-sun3.usc.edu> dleslie@koh-sun3.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>
>Has anyone run any sort of benhmark on this apple//emulator? I'm
>curious how fast a PC you have to have to emulate an apple // at
>full speed, and if it will start to run too fast. I ran it on
>a 386dx 40, and It seemed about right.

Yeah, though I don't remember enough to be useful.  My boss has 
a very decent 486 (and the speed is what I don't remember).

I remember that 

    10 FOR I=1 TO 1000:NEXT I


used to be the near-equivalent of a one second delay.  Actually,
it depended on a number of factors, but close enough.

So, on the 486, that loop took two seconds.  How about on your machine?

tom
From: gerace@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Mad Poo Bandit)
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Subject: Re: The days ..
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:04:40 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <NOP.92Dec18034213@theory.Mankato.MSUS.EDU> nop@theory.cs.mankato.msus.edu (misinstalled gnus and now has to pay for it) writes:
>In article <RWIFALL.92Dec16131603@dante.nmsu.edu> rwifall@nmsu.edu (Richard J Wifall) writes:
>	   Umm.. Yeah, I suppose those of you off in the land of the I*M
>   don't realize this, but Mass-produced compact code still exists...
>   Ohh.. so do Apple II programmers.. On a side note, compact code would
>   be my explaination why all my AppleIIgs programs run as fast (from a
>   general users standpoint) as equivalent pc clone programs run on clone
>   machines that have a mhz rating 5 times as high as my GS.. Of course
>   the pipelining can take some credit.
>
>At least part of the reason is 65816 instructions on average take fewer
>cycles than 8086 instructions.  It could be argued that the 65816
>instructions get less done, but for tightly coded stuff the
>instructions are about equal.  
>
>There's a nice version of this seeming paradox for microcontrollers.
>A 2MHz 68HC11 is roughly the same speed as a 16MHz Z8.
>

I hope this isn't getting too off topic, but I suppose in general you're
right.  A 6502 may take less cyles to do an add for instance, than an
equivalanet 8086 or V20.  But as Intel progresses, they get better at 
reducing the time for clock cycles.  A '286 was faster yet, a 386 could
do an instruction in 2 cycles, and a '486 could do 'em in 1 cycle.  Meanwhile
the Pentium is capable of fetching one instruction while simultaneously
decoding yet another, while also executing a third.  A 66MHz Pentium is
rated (maximum) to be 100Mips.

I don't claim to know about how many cyles and what not a 6502 and
the Motorola 68xxx series is capable of, and if anyone knows, please tell me.

The difference of course relates to the two main theories of microcode 
optimization.  CISC (complex instruction set) vs. RISC (reduced instruction set)meaning CISC has more complex instructions that take longer, whereas RISC has
less instructions that perform faster.  Of course, you'd have to use more RISC
instructions to perform an equivalent CISC routine, but you get the point.

MPB
Xref: sparky alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2:161 comp.sys.apple2:25790
From: lesatz@phakt.usc.edu (Eric Michals)
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2,comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Prodos (and for that matter 3.3) Documentation ?
Date: 19 Dec 1992 11:19:42 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <vera.724718826@fanaraaken.Stanford.EDU> vera@fanaraaken.Stanford.EDU (James S. Vera) writes:
>
>Anyone have some documentation of the basic Prodos commands?
>Something suitable for archiving would be nice.  And for that matter,
>I can only remember a few DOS3.3 commands (for the life of me I can't
>remember how to switch to drive B).  Anyone have a summary of DOS3.3
>commands?
>
>[BTW, wilbur.stanford.edu now has an image of kermit available.  That
>should help getting some PD stuff into image format]
>
>James S. Vera       |         Internet         | Voice: +1.415.723.1089 
>Stanford University |  vera@anna.stanford.edu  | FAX:   +1.415.725.7398

To switch to drive 2, you just put a d2 after whatever command.

CATALOG,D2
SAVE FILE,D2

Hosekeeping commands: init, catalog, save, load, run, rename, delete,
lock, unlock, verify, mon, nomon, maxfiles, fp, int, pr#, in#, chain,
open, close, read, write, append, position, exec, bload a$start, brun,
bsave, A$state,l$length.

Note that you can also use decimal addresses on bload and bsave. Plase

mon: turns on monitoring of dos commands use mon c,i,o
     c= commands, i=input, o=output   use nomon to turn off
maxfiles: number of text files that you can have open at once.
fp: enter floating point basic
chain: This is a program on the master disk. You can run a basic
program without erasing variables.

The rest you should remember. Please don't send mail asking me what
these do. If you don't by now, it is too late!

As for ProDOS, I have a manual, but it is a piece of shit! The old dos
manual used to give you useful programming information and let you
poke around in dos. The PRodos manual is for idiots, and besides, I
haven't seen any master prodos disk images.

Eric
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: keving@netcom.com (Kevin Gwarada)
Subject: Getting the Emulator to work
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:37:44 GMT

Try booting absolutly clean, and working up from there.  I found that for
some reason, that loading my logitech bus mouse driver caused the emulator
to stop functioning after changing the screen mode.
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: grover@emunix.emich.edu (Grover Thomas)
Subject: Reading Apple disks in IBM drive (was Re: Does anyone know of...)
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:36:20 GMT

In article <2277@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> gazo@server.uwindsor.ca (ozaG .S luaP) writes:
>
>	So, we can't even use something like Norton DiskEdit to get a straight
>Hex content of an Apple disk?  I mean, there's _NO_ way of sticking an apple
>disk in an IBM drive and grabbing the contents directly?

Gosh, all this brings to mind all sorts of vague rumors and reports of
unknown little programs that can be used to read Apple disks in IBM drives.
I *know* that old Atari disks can be done this way, and Apple disks are
fairly similar...


>	I just want to sleep at night, so if someone could actually say "it
>absolutely, due to technical difficulties, cannot be done", I would be able to
>stop thinking of nasty assembly routines to decrypt Apple disks...

Apple II programmers are known for continually doing "what cannot be done!"
I'm sure there's a way, we just need the people who know how to start
reading this newsgroup.

This looks like a great question to start a FAQ list.
-- 
 __                                                                        __
(__)  Grover Thomas                   InterNet:  grover@emunix.emich.edu  (__)
(__)                                                                      (__)
(__)    Stupid Dan Quayle quote deleted, now that he's out of a job :-)   (__) 
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: bressen@cs.columbia.edu (Andrew Bressen)
Subject: Re: copying disk images
Summary: 50 years after death of author
Keywords: copyright
Organization: Apt of the Lotus Eaters
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:12:58 GMT

In the US, copyright is generally good for 50 years after the death
of the author, although if the original copyright is by a corporation,
weird things happen.

Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: vera@fanaraaken.Stanford.EDU (James S. Vera)
Subject: Disk images ftp site
Organization: Program Analysis and Verification Group, Stanford University
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:45:23 GMT

I've set up an ftp directory for disk images for apl2em.  All two that
I have are available from wilbur.stanford.edu:/pub/apple2/DiskImages.

I have also set up the directory /pub/apple2/incoming should anyone
have any non-pirated (freeware, shareware, ...) images they want to
share.

James S. Vera       |         Internet         | Voice: +1.415.723.1089 
Stanford University |  vera@anna.stanford.edu  | FAX:   +1.415.725.7398


Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: tombaker@world.std.com (Tom A Baker)
Subject: Copyrights, my $.02 (was Re: DEVELOPMENT: Slew o' images)
Organization: Me, at The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:04:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.134814.339@ncsu.edu> tmcreek@eos.ncsu.edu (Tobin M. Creek) writes:
>Third, these games are still copyrighted.  I have both Wolfensteins, although
>Beyond locks up.  I have Sabotage, Karateka, etc, and these are still under
>copyright.  I need to hear from the wilbur site maintainer about sending these
>anywhere.  Therefore, I will NOT upload them to wuarchive.  I fear losing 
>my privaledge, and I need access to wuarchive for my UltraSound and 
>cica win3 mirrors there.
>
>Barring that I get permission to upload these, I may talk to people on an
>individual basis.
>

(He also says he has lots of disk images; the copyrighted games are just
*SOME* pof the disks.)  Very much appreciated.

Regarding the copyrighted games, I think we should take a deep breath,
then agree that no one from this group should post copyrighted game disks,
and then persistently follow that policy.

There is the possibility of private e-mail and other routes, stick to that.

I know that these particular games are what everyone is most interested
in getting, and that it is not like you can just go buy a floppy with the
.DSK file on it, and that, at the present time, making a .DSK of a game
disk is not easy for us.

But posting copyrighted material is just a no-no that will cut off FTP
resources and net accesses.

On the positive side, here are two or so interesting thoughts.

1) is that, with such an *active* group like this has turned out to be
(yeah, applause!) I think we will keep at the .DSK-conversion problem
and *SOON* it will be much easier.  So if you have a disk, making a .DSK
file will eventually not be a big deal.

2) is that, *just maybe*, if we stick around and grow, folks like the game
writers will decide that the APL2EM is really easy to support -- just produce
a .DSK file of your game, and folks with ibms will buy it, for money.
Why not?

Again, can we agree?  Never post (C)-stuff?

tombaker



Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu (Jim Wong)
Subject: Re: copying disk images
Organization: Rice University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:41:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.164314.9213@hellgate.utah.edu> galt%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu writes:
>No, you are not stealing from them.  You are copying their software
>without compensating them.  If it is impossible to compensate them,
>then they are losing nothing.  The way that piracy resembles theft is
>that you are taking away some of their "potential profit".  If that
>potential doesn't exist (i.e. the company is out of business, and 
>does let people know where they are), then they aren't losing anything. 
>
Going back to my fifty dollar bill analogy, if they were never going
to spend the money, you haven't taken anything from them except
some worthless paper.  They should be thankful you took it off their hands.

Do you really believe that the fact that someone might not be distributing
software he owns the rights to effectively negates his ownership of
said rights?

>(why is it that people get so unreasonable about copying software,
>when NO-ONE ever complains about videotaping TV shows, recording
>songs off the radio, xeroxing magazine articles, etc...  I understand
>it when we are talking about brand new software that is still being

There are established rules governing "fair use" of books and magazines, and
I believe that established legal precedent regarding the taping of
tv shows is that it's ok, as long as the tape is for personal use
(or something like that).
-- 
Jim Wong (jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu)


Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: Does apple ][ GS software work using the apple ][ emulator
Followup-To: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:15:21 GMT

If you pull out the GS Toolkit manuals,and the Mac Toolkit manuals, you
will be surprised at the number of common calls, as well as all the
similar concepts with slightly different call names that are present.

This is the concept which made it possible for Apple to create hypercard gs -
a version of the Mac hypercard application which can run hyperscripts from
the Mac.
-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: jeffgus@netcom.com (Jeffrey Gustafson)
Subject: DIP switch setting on Super Serial Card II??
Summary: I can't talk to my Apple ][...
Keywords: Serial images copying
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:13:02 GMT

	I have access to an Apple ][.  I tried to get some disk images
off it but I can't seem to talk to it through a null modem.  I typed
PR#1 and IN#1 like the A2PCTRAN document said, but all I got was
*some* junk.  I'm guessing that the Super Serial Card II DIP switch
settings are wrong.  (The card uses standard RS-232 right?)
	Does anyone know what the switches do on a Super Serial Card
II?  If so please post or e-mail them to me. 
	

---
Jeffrey Gustafson
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: vera@fanaraaken.Stanford.EDU (James S. Vera)
Subject: Re: Does anyone know of...
Organization: Program Analysis and Verification Group, Stanford University
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:50:28 GMT

gazo@server.uwindsor.ca (ozaG .S luaP) writes:

>	I just want to sleep at night, so if someone could actually say "it
>absolutely, due to technical difficulties, cannot be done", I would be able to
>stop thinking of nasty assembly routines to decrypt Apple disks...

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe the problem is that Apple
drives are variable speed (spinning faster on the inner tracks) while
the PCs use constant speed drives.  So its not physically possible for
the PCs to read the Apple diskettes.

James S. Vera       |         Internet         | Voice: +1.415.723.1089 
Stanford University |  vera@anna.stanford.edu  | FAX:   +1.415.725.7398

Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: galt%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Greg Alt)
Subject: copying disk images 
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:20:39 MST
Followup-To: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Reply-To: galt%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu
Organization: University of Utah, CS Dept., Salt Lake City

First, if you own a copy, but are unable to get a disk image
easily (i.e. system dead, no modem for your apple, etc) I'm
pretty sure that getting a copy would be legal, since it is
the same as copying it from your own copy.  

For example, I got a TRS-80 model I emulator for X, and I 
copied the roms.  There is nothing wrong about this since I
have a TRS-80 in my closet, and I just made a working copy
of the roms.  I am positive that the rom code will not be
simultaniously running on 2 machines, so there is no problem.

Another thing that you might want to look into is writing a
letter to whoever originally wrote the software you want and
ask them if they would let you copy the software.  Someone on
alt.vectrex did this, and they sent back a letter saying that
anyone can copy the cartridges, manuals, etc. as long as they
didn't make a profit off of it.  You might try some of the
companies that put out large amounts of software, just send
a form letter.

And, if the software cannot be found in stores, and the company
is out of business or unreachable, then I wouldn't see any
ethical problem with copying the software.  In fact, since 
it would be so reasonable to copy it, there is very little 
chance of any problems even if it is against the letter of the
law.

If anyone does want to take the effort to send out some letters,
go to alt.vectrex to get a copy of that letter for a guide, and
make sure to post any replies here...
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: rwifall@nmsu.edu (Richard J Wifall)
Subject: Re: The days ..
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:16:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.183721.17939@netcom.com> keving@netcom.com (Kevin Gwarada) writes:

>   I've used Including my Amiga, and IBM.  I heard somewhere that there is an
>   excellerated 6502 for industrial purposes (somewhere around 10 Mhz)-- If
>   its true, for fun, I'd seriously concider trying to implement it in an old
	There is a product called the Zip chip, made by Zip
Technologies.. I don't have their # handy, but they have accelerated
65c02's that you can swap your regular 65c02 with..(Note: this is made
specifically for the II's, so it will come with instructions and all)
>   apple (I realize what this implicates); but it would be great to see it
>   functioning.  Will we ever return to the days of mass-produced compact code??
	Umm.. Yeah, I suppose those of you off in the land of the I*M
don't realize this, but Mass-produced compact code still exists...
Ohh.. so do Apple II programmers.. On a side note, compact code would
be my explaination why all my AppleIIgs programs run as fast (from a
general users standpoint) as equivalent pc clone programs run on clone
machines that have a mhz rating 5 times as high as my GS.. Of course
the pipelining can take some credit.

	Summary: It's hard to return to those days when they are still
here..... :)
>   -K
			Richard..

--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+==+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
|Richard Wifall - rwifall@nmsu.edu - IRCnick: TheJazz - Member GS<>IRC        |
|-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-|
|Ask me about DeskTracker, BorderBlinker, and a demo that Dave hasn't finished|
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu (Jim Wong)
Subject: Re: Does apple ][ GS software work using the apple ][ emulator
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:51:02 GMT

In article <Bz418G.Fy3@javelin.sim.es.com> pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu (Jim Wong) writes:
>
>>1) You'd have to rewrite the toolbox.  Good luck.  I don't see very
>>many software Mac emulators out there, and there would be if redoing
>>the toolbox was easy.  Sure it can be done, but not without a great
>>deal of effort.
>
>You don't see a lot of software Mac emulators?  Amiga, Atari ST, and Sparc
>aren't enough for you?

You still need the ROMs, at least for the Amiga emulator.
And I don't see any for MS-DOS machines, which are what we're talking
about here.


-- 
Jim Wong (jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu)


Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: Slick emulator...but need system disks.
Followup-To: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:12:26 GMT

User groups which pay the yearly licensing fee are free to make the
DOS and ProDOS disks available for their members at 0 to distribution
fee costs.  But no apple software is permitted to be made available other
than a) through apple or b) through a licensing agent to paid members.
-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
From: shooter@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Shooter)
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2
Subject: HELP!!! What to do with .bsq files (how to run binscii.exe
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:37:00 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore


Hello all,
	I have the apple emulator apple.exe (5/30/90) I see that all the
apple archives are using .bsq files.  What do I do with them?  How does
binscii work?  How does one load them into the emulator?

Thanks in advance!
Mark
-- 
  Mark M. Tramontozzi	   Internet: shooter@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu        
  User Consultant	   Bitnet:   shooter@jhunix.bitnet	          
  The Johns Hopkins U.     UUCP:     uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!shooter 
  Baltimore, MD 21218 Voice:  office:410-516-8096 ... home:410-235-9381
Newsgroups: alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2