HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Subject: Re: where's will
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:54:41 GMT

In article <92211.131153U31764@uicvm.uic.edu> STEVE ROMAN <U31764@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Does anyone out there know what's up with Will Clark?  I've been out of
>touch for about a week, and I notice he's been out of the lineup (except
>for last night's heroic pinch-hit blast!).  Is he hurt?
>
>SF fan in Chicago...

Will fouled a pitch off his knee in Phillie last week. He feel to the
ground in obvious pain. The bases were loaded and the Giants trailing 
3-1. Will got up and blooped a double down the right field line to 
clear the bases and put the Giants ahead 4-3. Of course, in typical 1992
Giants fashion they went on to lose the game 8-4. He has been out of the
lineup until the pinch hit last night, which I was fortunate enough to
witness 1st hand. Haven't seen a homer in the bottom of the 9th to win
the game in some time. Makes the drive home more enjoyable.

luigi
--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mr. Subliminal says:  "twg"
Keywords: Medic!  Annnnnrrrrrcccccck.  Cang...Can...C..C..
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:35:36 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1477@cogsci.ucsd.EDU> king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) writes:
>zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay) writes:

>>Bruce Hurst?!  For half a season?  For Chitren, Armas, Neel, and Fox?

>Hey, groove it!  Actually, I think you'd get next season, too.  But
>I could be wrong.

Hurst is in the first year of a 3 year contract (extension).  Don't know the $$ amount,
but it's cheap compared to last winters free agent salaries.

How good are the prospects?

The LA Times reported that the Padres had sent several scouts to Oakland...
I think this trade rumor has a lot of substance.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: surrey_d@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Moises Alou
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:07:27 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

What is the status of Moises Alou? I think he
is eligible to come off the disabled list but
he hasn't? Is it a long term injury or in any
way related to last year's injury?

Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis)
Subject: Jays Roster Moves
Originator: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:43:42 GMT

The Jays have called up two catchers from AAA Syracuse, Ed Sprague and
Randy Knorr to replace Greg Myers.  There was no announcement of Hentgen
being sent down to make room for the extra catcher.  Does anyone have
any more info?  

It is good to see Eichhorn back.   He is about as good
as Ward, and is much better than the other middle relievers, except for
Stieb, who has improved a lot in the last four weeks (we'll see if it
continues).

Phill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: usscoop1@bnr.ca (Chuck McCusker P015)
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Keywords: Listen to the money talk....
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:51:18 GMT

In article <15480@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay) writes:
|> 
|> One of the big three freebies will end up in Oakland.  Either Maddux,
|> Bonds, or McGwire.  Of the three, I'd bet on Bonds.  Put him in

What makes you think the A's will not sign McGwire. He will probably be
cheaper than Bonds or Maddux. And with the Eck mentioning loyalty as a
big factor I would think that Mark will stay in Oakland. BTW didn't he
take a pay cut last year after that .201 season. He sounds pretty loyal
to me.  

Chuck Ross - Forced to play the A.L. in board baseball in the early 70's.
             Thats how I became an A's fan (I wanted to be the Pirates).
From: rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:36:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul24.221235.3817@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <3690@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari) writes:
>>Just because you can't have first hand knowldege of it doesn't make it okay to
>>ignore it IMHO.
>
>If I don't have any way of having any sort of accurate knowledge about it,
>then I would be just as well off making things up.  That's the problem.

I disagree with that.  Why would you be better off making up a story that says
Barry Bonds is a great guy who gets along with everybody when there are stories
in the local paper and on the local news that show him getting into arguments
with Leyland and complaining about how much money he makes as compared to other
players on his own team?  Just because you can't have first hand knowledge of
what he says doesn't mean you ignore the second hand knowledge that is
 available.  In statistics when you try to model a given distribution, that you
don't have "first hand" knowledge of, you use second and third hand knowledge
in order to build your model, you don't just make things up.

bert
-diehard sox fan (red that is)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brian@elara.mitre.org (Brian Toothman)
Subject: Re: Shoot Harry
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:22:04 GMT

According to Harry the Reds got a new player -- Hal Morse.

Being a Reds fan I hated how the Cubs' flyouts were blasts and the Reds
flyouts were "... and this one will stay in the park".
-- 

Brian M. Toothman -- brian@elara.mitre.org

1990 World Champions -- The Cincinnati Reds
Do it again in '92
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:34:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.081010.21868@m.cs.uiuc.edu> silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman) writes:

>What was the difference between Puckett and the average AL centerfielder, and
>the difference between Bonds and the average NL rightfielder? I suspect that
>though the edge may still go to Bonds, the figures may be closer.

Bonds is a leftfielder, not a rightfielder.  I did, however, do some RC/27
computations last year for PTP purposes.  My averages are unweighted (i. e.,
someone who started 50 games in CF would get as much weight as someone who
started 85 games), but if they are any indication, Bonds' RC/27 was 4.82 above
average for LF, and Puckett's RC/27 was only 1.46 above average for CF.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: NeXTwork.Rose-Hulma!rickert@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RP/PA for AL and NL (More bogus RP stats)
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:51:00 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


In article <3498@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)  
writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.032825.13187@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu  
(Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: 
> >RBIs are certainly lineup dependent.  So why don't we just take RBIs
> >as a percentage of opportunities?  Elias counts them for us, you
> >know...  Of course we are left with three percentages then.  But we
> >can use some sort of weighted average, if you like.
> 
> Does the Elias counting system take # of outs into account?  If not, I  
don't
> think it'll really work.  Two out RBIs are significantly harder.

They did the first year, but not afterwards.
I seem to recall that 2out RBI from 3rdbase were more difficult,
but that 2 out RBI from 1st and 2nd base were easier.
I'll see if I can remember to find the numbers.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bcschu@skws02.monsanto.com (Brett Schultz)
Subject: olympic baseball
Organization: Monsanto Company
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:36:44 GMT

Does anyone have the olympic roster and/or the schedule?
I glanced over the NBC schedule for the olympic events and didn't see
any baseball in there.  Are any of the games going to be televised?

Thanks

Brett
From: twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Best Looking Swing
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:59:47 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <3559@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>In article <92204.121229ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>>
>>    When I watch a good hitter at the plate, they will show the swing of the
>>  hitter in slow motion. IMHO the best looking swings I've seen are:
>>        1) Dave Justice
>>        2) Will Clark
>>        3) Don Mattingly
>>        4) George Brett
>
>Mattingly doesn't do much for me, especially after his back problems.  I 
>definitely agree on the other three, though.  I'd also add
>
>	 5) Fred McGriff
>	 6) Darryl Strawberry
>	 7) Barry Bonds
>
>Best right-handed swing: Craig Grebeck, of all people.

                          Jeff Bagwell.  What an uppercut.


--
 Thomas White          | Happy |   
 Austin, Texas         | Happy |  Don't just eat that burger,  
                       | Joy   |  eat the hell out of it!   
 twhite@mozart.amd.com | Joy!  |  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Rocket Roger, Enfant Terrible
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:25:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.014101.29982@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri 'Fortenberry fan club' Nichols) writes:
>Clemens has a 2.18 ERA in 156.2 innings, allowing 117 hits, 40 walks, and
>striking out 131, averaging 7 2/3 innings per start, while pitching his
>home games in hitter-friendly Fenway park.  If that's slipping, I'd like
>some more of it.

  Um, me too. Kinda like how I hear Frank Thomas (at ~.310/.445/.530) is
having a 'sophomore slump'. I'd *kill* for that. (Sorry about your cat, Noel,
but Jim Acker came to me in a dream and told me that if I did it Frank Thomas
would get traded to the Blue Jays for Alfredo Griffin, Joe Carter and Todd
Stottlemyre. I'm still waiting.) 

>Only Guzman of Toronto (2.03 ERA, 137.1 IP, 92 H, 50 W, 133 Ks, 6 2/3
>IP/start) and Appier of KC (2.12 ERA, 152.2 IP, 117 H, 43 W, 104 Ks, just
>under 7 1/3 IP/start) are comparable this year in the AL, and given the DH
>effect, no one is comparable in the NL.  Given that Rocket Roger has been
>performing at this level for quite a few years now, and Appier and Guzman
>haven't, I have no problem with the claim that Clemens is still the best
>pitcher in baseball.

  Agreed, with one personal exception. I'd have to put Greg Maddux of the
Cubbies on this list. True, he doesn't have to face the DH, but he *has* been
pitching late into games against pinch-hitters plenty this year and worst of 
all he pitches in Wrigley. All he's done so far is this: 2.20 ERA, 159.1 IP,
110 H, 42 BB, 110 K, about 7 2/3 IP/start (stats through Sunday). I know he 
won his last start, I believe giving up 2 runs in either 8 or 9 innings. 
Where would the Cubbies be without him? The Cubs were fools to screw around
with him in negotiations (if what he and Boras say is true). He'll get $30
mil on the open market *easy* if he gets a five year deal. Probably $35 mil. 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch       "Blue Jays all the way in '92"
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                                      Jeff Kent for ROY
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting, bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: WHAT SHOULD THE DODGERS DO???
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:59:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.184754.16681@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> frisbee@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Tyler Brown) writes:
>>
>>1B - This position looks like the most solid on the squad. Karros seems to
>>      be fitting in well and is doing very well for a rookie. I would hope
>>      that he is left alone and protected in the upcoming draft. He has been
>>      truly one of the bright spots of this season.
>>
>Agreed, but I'd like to see a decent sophomore year before I write
>him into the lineup for the next 15 years. I seem to remember bright
>starts for such luminaries as Greg Brock and Mike Marshall...

Greg Brock was a 26 year old rookie, and followed the expected
pattern.  He hit at about his rookie level for a couple more years,
then faded to nothing (with a blip in 1987).

And wasn't Mike Marshall a pretty decent hitter?  (He had other
problems, but he has always been able to swing the bat.)

Besides, from his minor league numbers I expect Karros to hit a bit
*better* than he is right now.  He's a quality prospect.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
If Plantier goes, I go!				tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Twins/Bo-Sox Game-8.......7/23/92 evening game
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:50:05 GMT

In article <19314@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
>Game-9 which promised some good pitching battle between the
>Rocket and Erickson was washed out today and a double header
>(games 8 & 9) will be held tomorrow.
>
>With great dissappointment, I switched the TV off.......
>
I was settling down with my wife for a nice evening of pizza and Twins.
I've got other things I've got to do tonight, so I won't be able to
watch.

You realize that there's only one way to stop rainouts from happening....

David Thornley
"Fenway must be domed" - Cato the Elder


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: minor leage info
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:30:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.220004.9216@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!) writes:
>hello.  i hope someone can explain to me some basics about the relationship
>between minor and major league teams.
>
>does the major league team 'own' their minor league teams as well? or is
>there a contract between the major league owner and the minor league
>owner?

There have been instances of the owner of a major league team also owning a
minor league team (I don't think any currently do, though I believe the
Tribune Company is trying to buy the Orlando team).  Basically, though, a
minor league owner signs a Player Development Contract with a major league
team.  The major league team provides the players, managers, and coaches,
and pays their salaries.  The major league team also pays the minor league
team a certain amount of money. 

Most, but not all, teams have PDCs.  Those that don't are referred to as
"Independent", and are responsible for getting their own players.  An
interesting book concerning the experiences of a minor league owner who
didn't have a PDC with a major league team is _Good Enough To Dream_, by
Roger Kahn.  

>do aaa teams call players up from aa teams the way major league teams do,
>such as to replace a player called up to the majors?

The major league team decides at what level all the players will play.  The
decision to move a player from AA ball to AAA ball is made by the major
league team, not by the AAA owner.

>also, sometimes in the news, a story will refer to a player being recalled
>(i think that's the word they use) from their aaa team.  other times,
>a player's ''contract is purchased'' from the aaa team.  are these terms
>synonymous, or do they refer to varying relationships between major and
>minor league teams?

I'm not positive of this, but I believe the difference is whether or not
the player in question is on the 40-man roster.  Anybody who is placed on a
major league roster prior to Sept. 1 must be on that team's 40-man roster.
Players on the 40-man roster may be in the minors, though.  If a player who
is not on the 40-man roster is called up, and there is no room on the
40-man roster, the team must make room by releasing a player on the 40-man
roster, trading a player on the 40-man roster for a player who won't be on
the 40-man roster, or by sending a player down who's on the 40-man roster.
The catch to sending a player down is that the player being sent down must
clear waivers first; that is, he must be made available to the other teams
in the league for a nominal price (the waiver price used to be $50K).  This
is in addition to having to make room on the 25-man active roster.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: All 6th-best team
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:18:41 GMT

In article <3848@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>       OF      Eric Anthony            Astros

Anthony?! That's a scary thought -- the Astros losing him, as well as
he's playing now. Let's see, in my mind, the only players who could even
be reasonably considered for top 5 would be Bagwell, Biggio, Finley,
Williams, Harnisch, maybe one of the pitching prospects (Juden, Kile,
Bowen), and Anthony. Did I leave anyone out? Well, when I list them out
like that, I can see how you might let Anthony go. Still, I guess I'll go
with the "What have you done for me lately?" philosophy and protect
Bagwell, Biggio, Finley, Williams(!), and Anthony. One justfication for
this: now the expansion team has a tough choice. Anthony is an easy pick
if he's left unprotected, but if you pretty much force them to pick one
of the young pitchers, they may end up taking one of the ones you don't
like. Heck, they might even go after Ken Caminiti!

>       SP      Kevin Brown             Rangers

Protect Gonzales, Rodriguez, Sierra, Palmiero, and ... who else? Palmer?
Franco? A prospect (Fariss? Maurer?)? I'd be tempted to go ahead and let
one of the sluggers go just to retain *some* semblance of pitching on
this team. It's scary to think what this team would be like with one of
the AAA cast of thousands starting in place of Brown.

Fun stuff!

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 00:43:48 EDT
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Errors on Double Plays (Was: Re: Mo Vaughn - All Star 1st Baseman)

I didn't see the play in question in which Vaughn dropped a throw
that would have completed a double play, but the scorer probably
had doubt in his mind that had Vaughn caught and held onto the ball
the batter-runner would have been out.

Rule 10.14c: No error shall be charged against any fielder when he
makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or
triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance
beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild.

The casebook ruling specifically addresses a fielder muffing a
thrown ball which results in the second runner being safe.

The only time a fielder is not charged with an error in an
attempted double or triple play is when his throw does not allow
a runner or runners to advance more bases than they would have
had had the throw not been wild. So, if the shortstop or second
baseman throw the ball away and the batter-runner or another
runner advances another base because of that wild throw, then
the fielder making that throw is charged with an error. If a
runner advances because of a wild throw on an attempted double
or triple play, then an error is charged. The rule does not
apply to dropped balls.
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RP/PA for AL and NL (More bogus RP stats)
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:28:22 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.032825.13187@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

>RBIs are certainly lineup dependent.  So why don't we just take RBIs
>as a percentage of opportunities?  Elias counts them for us, you
>know...  Of course we are left with three percentages then.  But we
>can use some sort of weighted average, if you like.

Does the Elias counting system take # of outs into account?  If not, I don't
think it'll really work.  Two out RBIs are significantly harder.


-- 
        David Tate         |   When I was a rookie arm and bit 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   And the greenest hurler to take the mound
  Prof. of Story Problems  |   (Sighed the old southpaw, dying of innings)...
  Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR  | 	"Lament", Dylan 'Big Frank' Thomas
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Jeff King must Die
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:40:32 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

I can't stand it.  With the score tied in the 8th inning, runners on first
and third, and two outs, the Astros just intentionally walked Barry Bonds
(who had homered earlier in the game) to pitch to Jeff King.  King flied out
to left to end the inning.  When was the last time you saw someone walked
intentionally to load the bases with first base already occupied?  

-- 
        David Tate         |   When I was a rookie arm and bit 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   And the greenest hurler to take the mound
  Prof. of Story Problems  |   (Sighed the old southpaw, dying of innings)...
  Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR  | 	"Lament", Dylan 'Big Frank' Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:05:26 GMT

In article <Bs3u7v.523@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson) writes:
>Do you read the newspaper for anything other than stats? Do you listen to the
>radio?  Do you watch TV.  If you answer ye to any of these my next question
>is why.  If you think that all reports are biased and can't be trusted then
>why the heck do you listen, read or watch them.

For entertainment value :-).

Seriously, I read those reports to glean factual information out of them,
and to figure out what the baseball establishment thinking is on a given
topic.  

>If you are 100% sure then why should you ignore it.  The value of the attitude
>also depends on the team.  If the team already has a good attitude then 
>bringing in a player who has been known to be a bit of a problem but is a
>quality player on the field may be worth it.  If the team has a bad attitude
>then trading away a little more quality for a good attitude may also be worth
>it.  If you want me to put a number on it I can't.

No, you don't have to put a number on it, just define it.  How do I know my
team has a bad or good attitude?  How do I know how adding particular
player A will affect the attitude of my team?  Does the attitude of the
team have any noticeable affect on the performance of the team?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball