HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Pigs is Pigs
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:55:27 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)

In article <1jkfisINNta@shelley.u.washington.edu>, twain@milton (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>>I guess this is the sort of response you'd expect from someone who really
>>*has* never heard the William Tell Overture accompanying the Lone Ranger,
>>but anyway...  I've read "Pigs is Pigs" but never heard of the others; it's
>>a story about an obstructive railway official who refuses to let a shipment
>>of a breeding pair of guinea pigs go at the small-pet rate and insists on
>>impounding them till he gets the full porker fee, right?  Who wrote it?

>Right.  And they kept breeding, and the rates mounted, and... 

>I think it was written by Stephen Leacock. 

Definitely not.  My copy of PIGS IS PIGS is in storage, but that situation
is hopefully not lasting for too much longer.  I only remember that the
author was someone I had never heard of.

Disney made an animated version of the story.  I would assume that this
is far more likely to be the direct inspiration for "The Trouble with
Tribbles" than the written story itself.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.censorship
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: Federal-level Book Censorship in the USA
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:40:32 GMT

In article <C1GpAs.65L@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>> Anyway, the US bans books on "obscenity" grounds every day. [...]
>> A famous case along this line was _Show Me_, a radical German sex ed book.
>> A friend of mine worked on the case, which went to the Supreme Court.
>> He has a copy, btw.  It's a bit much, imho--but I doubt it's killed anyone.
>
>WHAT???  This book was on open sale in the UK with never a flicker of a
>problem.  (We used to sell it in the radical bookshop I worked in once).
>I thought it was one of the better sex education books out there.  This
>simply *must* have been a ban for covertly political reasons, given that
>pictures of several miles of erect penis are published in the US every day.

"Show Me" was readily available in the U.S. for some years.  Back in the
early seventies, when I worked as a page for a library in the suburban
Northern Virginia area, we had a copy on the open shelves.  It caused
a minor flurry of controversy when it appeared in the U.S., as many parts
of the country are still hostile to sex education for children, and were
more so then, but none the less it received wide release in the seventies.
The book has largely disappeared from libraries and bookstores, in more 
recent years.  I don't believe it was ever officially banned.  Rather, I 
suspect bookstores decided that the heat was a little too hot for them to 
handle.  (The increasing number of chain bookstores in the U.S. makes them 
all the more susceptible to caving in to pressure groups.)

The problem with "Show Me" wasn't the pictures of adults having sex, but 
pictures of naked children.  The U.S. has gotten extremely sensitive about 
child pornography over the past ten years, and while the intention of "Show 
Me" clearly wasn't to pander to pedophiles, the mere appearence of pictures 
of children's genitals has become rather controversial.  Showing them in 
a sexual context is even more controversial.  There are probably still 
some relatively brave bookstores selling "Show Me", and probably a bunch 
of bluenoses who would delight in taking them to court (and picket them, 
and call them all sorts of nasty names) if they knew about it.  I know of
absolutely no political motivations (beyond keeping bluenose yahoos happy)
that would have any bearing on the availability of "Show Me" in the U.S.

-- 
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu
From: ian@nasser.eecs.nwu.edu (Ian Sutherland)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Help with name of children's story
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:23:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: eecs.1993Jan26.152346.16670
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

I'm looking for the title/author of a children's book I read as a
child.  Here's what I remember about it:

- It won the Newbury (sp?) medal.

- It was about a city of magicians whose magic was not "real", that is,
  it was stage magic, and the arrival of a person who could do "real"
  magic.  This person is greeted with great hostility, except by the
  daughter of the leading magician, who gets a lot of grief for being
  the "real" magician's friend.

- I think the "real" magician had some sort of talking animal
  companion.

I'd very much like to obtain this book if at all possible for a young
friend of mine.  Any help would be appreciated.
-- 
Ian Sutherland
ian@eecs.nwu.edu

Sans Peur
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: garrett@cs.rochester.edu (Bill Garrett)
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:11:32 GMT

In article <11798@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall) writes:
>So are you going to sign off the list or not?  These drawn-out goodbyes
>are bad form :-)
>
>John

This thread began when another member of RAB wrote to say goodbye and that
he was leaving due to the antagonistic nature of the responses to his
postings here (he is now back in the group).  I responded with a plea
for not quite as much rudeness and to date my posts have mostly been
of the form "Why I prefer not to participate in many discussions on RAB."
I don't believe that I ever threatened to sign off the list.  I have
just wanted to point out that there may be a sizeable amount of useful
knowledge and opinions thats never posted here because of the nature
most conversations here eventually take.  I can see how the title of the
thread may be misleading to someone who has followed all of the postings
however.

 -Bill


-- 
Bill Garrett			ARPA: garrett@cs.rochester.edu
University of Rochester		UUCP: {decvax,rutgers}!rochester!garrett
Rochester  NY  14627		VOX:  (716) 275-5605
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Book-title modesty
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:21:25 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

It occurred to me the other day that I feel compelled, when carrying a
book in public, to conceal the title, usually by carrying it with the
front cover toward my body.  Observation bears out my hunch that many
others do the same, at least if the book they're carrying falls into
the category of Good Literature (which much narrows the database of my
observation).

I wonder why we do this.  Much objectively pointless behavior is
"ritual" in nature, but this book-title modesty doesn't seem to fit
into any obvious larger pattern...  It certainly runs counter to the
coffee-table habit...

-Ken
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody.
opinions are my own      | G. K. Chesterton
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:33:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.221931.25999@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.190122.6751@cactus.org>, kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>|> Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
>|> speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
>|> of What Americans Do, or try to do, for good or evil. Two questions:
>|> 
>|> 1. Am I the only one who found the phrase pretty and evocative?
>
>Well, I find the phrase about as repulsive as I would find the phrase 
>"forcing morality".
>
>And I'm afraid that trying to use force to solve the problems we face is
>just about as futile as trying to "force spring" to come in Feburary.

April is the cruellest month,
Breeding lilacs out of the dead land,
Stirring dull roots with spring rain.

:-)



--
"Duff Beer for me, Duff Beer for you"
	"I'll have a Duff's, you have one, too...."
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26615 alt.president.clinton:1911
From: drkellic@sgidr2.sdrc.com (Scott Kellicker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:39:34 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: SDRC

In article <1993Jan27.124412.4408@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
|> In article <1k4r67INN9dk@harpo.uccs.edu> render@massive (Hal Render) writes:
|> >Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
|> >: Angelou also makes one huge politically incorrect faux pas in her
|> >: poem using the term "Eskimo" for the Inuit...which is akin to using
|> >: the N-word for African Americans...shame on her.  
|> >: 
|> >
|> >Perhaps she has not talked about the Inuit before and has not had occasion
|> >to be instructed on the new term.   Perhaps you could of sent her a letter
|> >explaining the preferred terminology before criticizing her.  Respect for 
|> >another person often means that you resist criticizing a person for a fault
|> >of which they are not aware.
|> >
|> 
|> Inuit is not a new term...the mistake she made is analagous to me going
|> to the KKK and asking them what to call African Americans, or me going
|> to a National Socialist and asking them what to call a Jew...if you
|> want to know what to call the Inuit, you should ask them what they
|> call themselves...not go to their rivals or competitors and ask them
|> what they call them.
|> 


What anti-Inuit group did Angelou phone-up to arrive at the term 'Eskimo'?
(I hardly think her ignorance, i.e. lack of knowledge, is analagous to
asking the KKK the term for an African American...)

Scott Kellicker
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Novels about writers
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:50 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Matthew P Wiener writes...

>>Anybody read any good books w/writer as protagonist lately?
> 
>Good: Samuel Beckett MALONE DIES.  Lately: Stephen King MISERY.

+---------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Also in the `lately' category by Mr. King is _The Dark Half_ another one of
those novels that looks like a short story on steroids.

Having taken care of the Eli Wallach and the Lee Van Cleef entries in one
go, I'll finish the trinity by recommending _Herovit's World_ by Barry
Malzberg.









-SubGenius
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Liar
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:38:25 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

D J Ford (py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk) wrote:
> 
> 	I was wondering, having just discovered this newsgroup,
> 	what the concensus opinion on Stephen Fry's The Liar
> 	was.
> 
> 	Myself, I though it was brilliant for a first attempt.
> 	God, no, that makes it sound cr*p. It was brilliant
> 	for any attempt. Hell, it was just brilliant. 
> 

Certainly one of the funniest novels I've read for a long time. Like many
first novels it was rather over-plotted (although to some extent this was
part of the parody of the spy novel...), and it was clearly at least
slightly autobiographical (parts of it tally with what Fry has said about
his own life, although there's always the possibility that he's lying!). 
It functioned well on several levels -- parodying public school stories, Le
Carre'-like spy novels, etc. and was downright hilarious in parts. Quite
substantial parts in fact. Well, ok, everywhere.

As ever Fry writes with a huge vocabulary and a fine command of the outer
reaches of the English language. One feels that the character in whom he is
most interested is Trefusis (go and read the Wireless Essays in
``Paperweight'' for more of the same...) -- Adrian ``is'' Fry, to a first
approximation; Trefusis seems to be the person that Fry wants to be...

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas'
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:22 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Laurie Mann writes...

>I don't think the US as a nation has censored a book since, maybe, the '30s.
>Maybe earlier.  James Joyce's book Ulysses had all kinds of problems
>being published here back in the '20s.
>Some libraries and school committees still ban books.  

+---------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
_Ulyssess_ was admitted into the U.S. after the landmark decision of the
United States District Court of the Southern District of New York, delivered
by the Hon. John M. Woolsey (of no relation to Sir Bernard Woolsey) on
December 6, 1933.

The following year in Paris Henry Miller wrote _Tropic of Cancer_ which
was promptly denied entry into England and the U.S., and remained banned
as obscene in the U.S. for twenty-seven years.

Yes, the United Snakes of Artless letters does indeed ban books.









-SubGenius
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Heather's Marilyn
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:51:13 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <C1BJv5.EFK@panix.com> mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

> Let me get this straight, Arne.  We have a discussion here which has
> been about films and acting.  Someone *finally* asks a question which
> might involve books (you know -- as in rec.arts.books <this was before
> Heather brought up Lindsay Anderson with his "one film-one interpretation"
> theory)) -- and you give him a hard time for it?

A hard time?  Heavens.  OK, a book about films and acting
that I think is wonderful is Charles Affron's _Star Acting:
Gish, Garbo, Davis_ (NY: Dutton, 1977). 

> A little cheeky, isn't it?

Oh, just a tad.

Arne
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:50:03 GMT

In article <1jt4n2INNado@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
|> The "which art" boyos, those of the Established Church, also use
|> the epilogue, "For Thine is the Kingdom, &c.", whereas their Papist
|> cousins leave it out. It has always seemed curious to me that Graham 
|> Greene would use the last five words of that epilogue for a title 
|> for one of his novels. Very confusing. It is as though he were saying 
|> "Since you are a Roman Catholic, for you there is no Kingdon, no Power, 
|> no Glory."
 
 According to what I remember from Papist Sunday School, it's God who has
the KP&G, not the church. So Greene is saying that God gets short shrift 
from the RC's, perhaps? Weird. 
 
 Of course, that line _is_ uttered in the Catholic Mass at the end of the 
Lord's Prayer, but it's the priest who says it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26416 alt.censorship:10120
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book-title modesty
Date: 23 Jan 1993 04:41:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclops.eece.unm.edu

In article <1993Jan22.132129.46644@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>It occurred to me the other day that I feel compelled, when carrying a
>book in public, to conceal the title, usually by carrying it with the
>front cover toward my body.  Observation bears out my hunch that many
>others do the same, at least if the book they're carrying falls into
>the category of Good Literature (which much narrows the database of my
>observation).
>

	Wow, I wonder what you classify as Good Literature... :)
	If I carry a book around, I proudly display the title;
	you even meet people this way:  I recall once carrying
	around a copy of Darwin in a mall here, and met a pretty
	biology grad student who's interest was thereby piqued.

>
>-Ken

rms
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: Benson, beyond Lucia
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 09:42:35 GMT

Cole Kendall <U48073@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>Following recommendations of various rabbisti, I found the Benson
>_Lucia_ series (six novels and one story in the omnibus _Make Way
>For Lucia_).

>Any further recommendations?  Is _Dodo_ worth seeking out.  Are his
>brother's diaries of any interest?

Funny, I always thought of E.F. Benson as a ghost-story writer.  I don't know
if there's a "best of" collection, but an omnibus volume of his Collected
Ghost Stories has just been published by Carroll & Graf.  (My personal favorite
of his stories is "Negotium perambulans in tenebris".)  While he's not as good
as M.R. James, he has a subtle touch and better characterization.  Other good
stories: "The Room in the Tower," "How Fear departed from the Long Gallery,"
"The Other Bed," "The House with the Brick-Kiln," "And No Bird Sings," "The
Step," and the very odd "Pirates."

- David Librik
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:39:29 GMT
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Bill Garrett (garrett@cs.rochester.edu) wrote:
: 
: This may be but I just want to note that this rudeness in nature is
: apparently isolating a lot of people (judging from the mail I've
: received) and results in a somewhat closed environment, which I do
: not think is desirable.

I have to grant that it certainly drives some people from debates.

: 
: To you and Mr. McCarthy's point that rude attacks often have valid
: criticism hidden within them, I totally agree.  I just don't have
: the time, the patience, or any great desire to accept valid
: criticism from people who are attacking me at the same time.

But my point would be, if the criticisms are useful and valid, what
matters the manner of their delivery?  I really am not trying to
be difficult, but part of the reason that I ask is that my personal
"growth" has often been most significantly spurred by people who
were not necessarily rigorously polite. 

:  There
: are much better ways of getting your criticism across, and in general
: I find criticism better received when given in a polite manner (of course
: your mileage may vary).

I think my mileage may vary.  I think that most meaningful criticism is,
by its very nature, somewhat rude to the person on the receiving end.
It is my opinion for myself that if I am HONESTLY interested in truth
and self-improvement, I have to learn to look at ALL criticism as
potentially valid and useful.  The more unpleasant it is to me, the
more careful attention I should pay to it, as instinctive negative
reactions on my part (and an urge to ignrore the input) could
represent reflexive behavior designed to cover up the need for
self-analysis and self-criticism and change for the better.

Of course you have to make some effort to distinguish between 
someone who is giving you valid criticism and someone who is merely
a rude idiot, but the tone alone is not all that relevant to making this
determination (for me).


doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Where is well met in Houston, TX?
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:38:39 GMT

'Sorry about changing the subject heading, but the misspelling was
getting on my nerves...

Katherine M. Catmull writes:
>Incidentally, I would also urge FM to ignore SubG's malevolent
>suggestion about seeking nightspots in the Fifth Ward. You want
>Montrose or West University.

I agree: especially about Montrose.  I'm a Houstonian currently
expatriated to the D.C. area, but since I've been up here two
years now, I don't feel confident about making a restaurant suggestion.
My own tastes lean in the direction of small, colorful, non-chain Mexican
restaurants with lots of character, but I don't know if that counts
as a "RABspielhaus."  Chapultepec, on Richmond just east of Montrose,
is one of my faves, and is probably still in business, since it's
been there for a long time.  If you want Bass ale on tap, in a
somewhap yupped-out atmosphere, try The Black Labrador, at about
the 4000 block of Montrose.  Past that, I'd be leery of recommending
places that may well no longer exist.

>I hear there's a good Magritte exhibition in Houston right now--

If it's still open, it's at the Menil gallery, also in Montrose,
within walking distance of the Rothko Chapel, also worth checking
out.  The Menil always has something neat going on, and they
probably have the largest collection of Magrittes in the country,
although not all of them are always on display.  Easy parking for
the Menil is available at about the 1500 (I'm guessing) block of
West Alabama.  From there you can walk to the Menil, walk around
and marvel at all the grey houses painted exactly the same color
in accordance with some weird Menil family dictum, and walk to the
Rothko Chapel and its interesting broken-obelisk sculpture in a
reflecting pool.

						--homesick,

							Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: JDMCGEE@VM1.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU
Subject: Any Discount Bookstores??
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:32:04 GMT

I am looking for a bookstore or bookseller where I books can be
purchased at "Discount" or below retail... Anyone know of a
Place???  Reply to me and I will post a summary to this list OR
Reply to list.... Thanks.....
From: c60b-2hz@e260-3d.berkeley.edu (Nathaniel Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-3d.berkeley.edu

This may be light-weight as a mere mystery rather than literature but
_Silver Pigs_ by Lindsey Davis, a P.I. mystery set in 70 A.D. Rome and Britain,
was a good read.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books