From: knguyen@emr1.emr.ca (Kim Nguyen)
Subject: Re : History lessons
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:21:09 GMT

>In article <BzMpG5.Kv9@Saigon.COM> tin@poseidon.smsc.Sony.COM writes:
>Dear netters,
>
>  Over the past week or so, I received some interesting
>informations that made me both happy and sad.  I am happy to see
>that there are some Vietnamese who have learned from the past, yet
>without holding on to the bitterness and hatred.  They are
>focusing on the positives and bright future that could be for our
>country.  I am very happy to know I am not alone.

I don't know whether or not we really learn anything from the past. I
had had no chance to escape from Vietnam before April 1975. I stayed
back there and worked with all my zeal in a geological team in Kien-
luong (Rach-gia) as doomed geologist. Every day in six working days of a 
week, I carried 20 kgs of rock samples from at least 10 calcareous 
mountains back to my base camp in Cho*.-Tro`n, Kie^n-lu*o*ng.

From 6 o'clock in the morning, I start walking 10 km through many roads and
many swamp areas before reaching any mountain and up its summmit through 
hundreds of ear-cat structures of limestone. Blood and scars are all over 
my legs; military boots worn out in only 3 months. After collecting samples
(around 20 kgs), I do the same routine through those roughed rocks, get 
back to the foot of that mountain and arrive home around 7 o'clock in the 
afternoon. For almost 4 years, I take the order to go enthusiastically and 
never utter any complaints although my North Vietnamese colleagues often 
allege illness as a reason for not going to work.

I can say for the whole project of all mountains in Kien-luong, I bear the 
whole hardship. They didn't know that I just worked for a future Vietnam 
not for any mercy from them. One day, there was one more line (around 2 km)
of rock sampling to go, which looks to the sea side. They order me to stay 
home and let one of NV go without any explanation.
 
Later I learn that because my relative was in a concentration camp they
were watching me and felt that I would use boat to escape. Until the day 
when they didn't like me to take a short leave to take care of my dying 
mother, I quit with great difficulty. I recognized that the regime did not 
care for inviduals except told them to fulfill *obligations* like machines. 

For 5 years in Vietnam after 1975, I hoped them to fulfill what they
usually propagandized through sympathizers in the student movement back in
1972 when all went protesting corruptions under Thieu's regime; but alas 
they did not fullfil anything except exloited the sincerity and patriotism 
of ordinary Vietnamese and still abode with a foreign doctrine.

Hatred and bitterness ? To somebody else, maybe. To me, nope ! I did not 
have any *bloody debt* with them, but one thing I know for sure that 
THEY DID LIE AND THEY WILL LIE. My sentiment is about great disappointment
in that regime more than bitterness and hatred.

How can we expect any *positive and bright future* from a group of 
liers ? I don't agree with you about using *hatred and bitterness*
rhetoric. This rhetoric can allure the Vietnamese youngsters, but to
all adults, it makes them sad. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST CURRENT RHETORIC
I AM FED UP TO HEAR. Please create another better and convincing one. 
 
>  Yet... I am also sad to know there are still some who are doomed to
>repeat history.  They can not learn from all the pains and sufferings
>that we have suffered.  They wish to create more pain and sufferings
>on our country.  All their life have been filled with hatred and they
>can not seem to let go of that which they know best.  My heart is full
>of sadness and pity for them.

Pains and sufferings ? Then and now ? Now and forever ? 

Again, I face the same rhetoric about hatred. True history is very 
important because it makes its people to be proud and stand up without 
shame. I often cite to Canadian friends about famous Vietnamese women
like The Trung Sisters, especially Trieu-Au whom I adore with these words :

 
 To^i muo^'n co*~i co*n gio' ma.nh, -da.p -du*o*`ng so'ng du*~, che'm ca'
 tra`ng ki`nh o*? be^? -do^ng, que't sa.ch bo*` co~i, -de^? cu*'u da^n ra
 kho?i no*i -da<'m -duo^'i, cho*' kho^ng the`m ba<'t chu*o*'c ngu*o*`i
 -do*`i cuo^'i -da^`u cong lu*ng de>? la`m ti` thie>'p ngu*o*`i ta.
 
 But who wants to talk about communist Nguye^~n thi. -Di.nh ?
 
 ...and many more, but how can I explain to them why they heard about a
 mountain called Marx or the stream Lenin in Pac-Bo ? About cruel land
 reform ? Hue massacre ?... How can I erase those killings in Vietnam
 modern history ?
 
 Why do we all remember Nguye^~n Hue^., the right stuff, who, after letting
 his people to enjoy the Tet few days earlier , ordered them to advance to 
 Thang-Long in the New Year's eve of 1789 ? But how can I answer to 
 foreigners about The Tet Offensive of 1968 ? I tell you I am really 
 ashamed to repeat that story to my colleagues around my office.
 
 When we all die, the next generation will bring that history up and
 argue as we have recently done. The sadness will emerge because 
 unavoidable facts can not be covered or misinterpreted by any skillful 
 reasoning.
 
 Why is there any discussion about Vietnam history ? The dissipation
 of communism and, furthermore, the cruel reality of a regime once 
 foreigners had some sympathy did make their own people to rethink and 
 reassess the history of their own country.
  
>  It is said that those who can adapt will grow and be stronger.  The
>bamboo _knows_ to bend in the wind, so it survive and prosper.  So must
>we, Vietnamese, learn to work with what we have and _bend_ (compromise)
>if we wish to accomplish our goals.  The water _knows_ to flow around
>an obstacle, and eventually it wears down even the biggest, hardest
>mountain there is.

Communist cadres often brings compromised rhetorics to let the populace 
to forget all the painful past and concentrate to build another modern
Vietnam; but did they forget the past ? They still watch and recall
detainees many times to ask or investigate about their past ! My cousin 
in Vietnam could not go to school because her father was in concentration 
camp !

My patriotism flied as high as Truong-son Mountains (Long Range); I was one 
to take the lead to go far away from my family to work like hell in 
Kien-luong. But I knew that there must be something wrong in their thinking : 
THEY NEVER TRUST
ANYBODY WHO IS NOT PARTY MEMBER; THEY MANIPULATE THE POPULACE BUT NEVER
TRUST THEM.

About bamboo : that is your standpoint as falling leaves : they fall to 
the direction of the wind. That viewpoint is of an opportunist. But 
opportunism is not bad; that is one of many ways to survive when someone 
else gets misfortunes because of not being flexible. As a matter of fact,
bamboo can break if it bends too much, or when bent too long by a permanent
wind, it cannot get back to its previous form.

On the other hand, opportunism has nothing to do with the genuity of a 
history. One can hold his viewpoint but can not distort the history. This
is a crime.

Furthermore, THERE IS NO PLACE FOR ANY OPPORTUNIST UNDER A COMMUNIST 
REGIME. Their organisation is the most disciplined and effective one in 
the world. Doan-Van-Toai's Vietnam Gulag is a real experience. The whole
book is just for one message : full cooperation or else.

About water : water is all over, strong and permanent as long as the earth
still exists; but Vietnamese abroad, as any human being, are vulnerable and
die at any time. Any mistake in calculation can make them doomed; any move
without knowing warning can ends up in disaster.

Your message can evoke many painful experiences and untold stories.


>  I see so many Vietnamese who have not yet learn these age old
>advice.  They wish to take on the communist government headon.


Is the advice about the flexibility of bamboo or water ? I don't
oppose to that advice, but it looks like that advice won't work safely
because it creates another sacrifice of dignity, emotional suffering and
current conflict of what you think and what you see. ONE FORGOT TOTALLY
WHY HE MUST END UP TO LEAVE HIS COUNTRY AFTER ONLY FEW YEARS. Now, one must 
bend his principles in order to make his opponents to bend with them. Is 
there such thing in communist world ? I try in vain to find any *history 
lesson* about a successful compromise. Are they stupid not to recognize
what one intends to do ? 

Just remember that what they are doing now is economic reform not a 
political one. IT IS STRANGE STATEGY BUT YOU CAN TRY IT.

The failures of this strategy were recorded in the modern Vietnam History :

-Viet-nam Doc-lap (Independence) Dong-Minh (Alliance) Hoi (League) or
Vietminh was formed in May 1941 by Ho-Chi-Minh (Ho who enlightens) or
Nguyen-Tat-Thanh (Nguyen who would be the victorious). Vietminh was a 
united front of several nationalist groups under communist direction to
liberate Vietnam from French occupation. When the Japanese surrendered in
August 1945, the Vietminh ordered a general uprising. After proclaiming 
the independence of Vietnam on September 2, 1945, Ho and Vo-nguyen-Giap
started to eliminate non-communist groups and gained the upper hand. 
Vietminh then became totally communist. I remember two netters did post
articles about this demolition.

-In December 1960, in South Vietnam, the various groups (communist and 
non-communist) had formed The National Liberation Front again under 
communist direction. This organization became a military arm of an openly 
Communist People's Revolutionary Party (a political puppet)  founded in 
1962; in that, Hanoi organized and took command of NLF. NLF fighters were 
commonly called Vietcong (Vietnamese communists); these fighters were old
Vietminh or by no means, North Vietnamese and South communists. The 
programs of NLF, endorsed by Hanoi in January 1962, was : NEUTRALIZATION OF
SOUTH VIETNAM, WITHDRAWAL OF ALL FOREIGN TROOPS, AND GRADUAL REUNIFICATION 
WITH THE NORTH.

In June 1969, the puppet Communist People's Revolutionary Party announced 
The Provisional Revolutionary Government (PRG) of South Vietnam ! With the 
reunification of Vietnam in 1976, the NLF joined the Vietnamese Communist 
Party and the other political organizations informing a National United 
Front. What was that National United Front ? It was The Communist Party of 
Vietnam ! Why did North Vietnam make a big circle like that ? Was that not
a skillful way to dupe foreigners, deceit gullible politicians and its 
people ?

What about non-communist parties and the names like Huynh-Tan-Phat and
Nguyen-Huu-Tho ? They had to mingle into the current water of history and
people never heard about them again. Were they like *bamboo* or *water* in
order to live strong ? May be they were.

>Failing that, they will attack and destroy all those who disagree
>with them.  In the process, they have become very much like those
>they _hated_ (they are now full of negative emotions -- hatred and
>bitterness for a fellow Vietnamese).

*Attack and destroy those who disagree with them* ? Wholly ! I never saw
on any forum this abuse words. Debate is debate. Cons and pros must be
on any discussed subject.

About *hated* rhetoric : you should use the word *disliked* or *disagreed*.

An article, called *Call for dialog* on SCV, displays many flaws about 
Vietnam History, mainly in the period 1925-1945. All is almost based on 
HKK's book and convince Vietnamese abroad that:

-Independence is what Vietnam communists are for. But if they are
really advocates for the independence of their beloved country, why
did they not respect the independence of Laos and Cambodia ?

If they love independence which they did exchange by innocent Vietnamese
corpses, why did they not use the home-grown VIETNAMESEISM to let 
Vietnamese enjoy to live in a independent and happy land ? Why do they 
still use Leninism to rule Vietnam ?

-This article suggests a deep-rooted Leninism and its natural fusion into
Vietnam. Is it ridiculous ? A champion of independence can say that ?
That part of history (1925-1945) has no deep-rooted origine from Leninism 
but IT WAS FORCED TO MINGLE WITH AN IMPORTED DOCTRINE. No one talks about 
HOISM, but Marxism or Maoism.

The only origin for that period is VIETNAMESE PATRIOTISM. Vietnamese has
shown to the world that they did not need Leninism or Maoism or Stalinism
or Troskyism to kick Chinese and Mongols out of their land ! WITH A 
PROTRACTED WAR, THEY WOULD DO THE SAME TO THROW FRENCH OFF THEIR 
TERRITORY NO NEED OF USING COMMUNISM.

No one likes to be proud of that period when the communist party of 
Vietnam did single out many nationalists and race for power not for the 
benefit of a democratic Vietnam; today's picture about Vietnam is the 
proof.

That period of history has shown a failure of APPLYING BLINDLY a foreign 
doctrine to solve a war and then to put that doctrine on every head of 
Vietnamese to bear until today.

About disagreement : a political debate is hot and fierce. This has nothing
to do with the rhetoric *hatred*. It is a debate about an attempt to cover
up crimes in Vietnam history, to distort it for an excuse of a gang 
monopoly and its faults.

>I know that I will not change
>your minds, but all I am asking is for you to think before you destroy
>another.

I hope you do the same but with clear-sighted heart. Almost Vietnamese
abroad are well-educated, well-informed and mature. They never listen
to any body, even listen to you and me. Let they decide for themselves
: THAT IS WHY THE DEMOCRACY IS ALL ABOUT.

Don't concern about them. WE LIVE IN DEMOCRACY AND DIE IN IT.

>Someday you may be surprised to find out that we are all
>working for the same thing, toward the same goals -- that is to see
>Vietnam once again prosperous, her people enjoying a happy life...
>just using different methods.

Yes. I agree wholeheartedly (you see, I don't hate you !).

Let us remember about history and not forget it :

-In 1946, Ho-Chi-Minh said :

Toa`n da^n, co^' ga<'ng vu*o*.t mo.i kho' kha<n, tha<'t lu*ng buo^.c bu.ng,
-da'nh -duo^?i thu*.c da^n Pha'p, nha^'t -di.nh chu'ng ta se~ sung 
su*o*'ng.

-After kicking French out of North Vietnam, Ho-Chi-Minh said in 1954 :

Mie^`n Ba<'c -du*o*.c gia?i pho'ng, nhu*ng -do^`ng ba`o ruo^.t thi.t tai. 
mie^`n Nam -dang qua<`ng qua.i du*o*'i su*. kie^`m ke.p cu?a -de^' quo^'c
My~ va` Nguy. tai sai, ha~y vu*o*.t mo.i thu*? tha'ch, ha.t ga.o che? la`m
tu*, -da'nh xong gia<. My~ nha^'t -di.nh toa`n da^n se~ sung su*o*'ng.

-Before he died in 1969, he wrote :

Our mountains shall always be,
Our rivers shall always be,
Our people shall always be;
The American invaders defeated,
We shall rebuild our land
Ten times more beautiful.

In 1975, after power taking, Le-Dua^?n, the General Secretary of the 
Communist Party of Vietnam said :

-Da?ng va` nha` nu*o*'c hie^.n -dang no^? lu*.c gia?i quye^'t mo.i kho'
kha<n do My~-nguy. -de^? la.i; pha?i mu*o*`i na<m nu*~a chu'ng ta mo*'i
-du*o*.c so^'ng sung su*o*'ng hoa`n toa`n, hoa<.c ne^'u ca^`n, chu'ng
ta co' the^? hy sinh the^' he^. na`y, the^' he^. con ca'i cu?a chu'ng ta
nha^'t di.nh se~ sung su*o*'ng.

After bringing army to invade Cambodia, China was angry at that behavior
of Vietnam and created conflict at the sino-vietnamese border. Through
an announcement to stimulate the Vietnamese patriotism, Hanoi's 
broadcasting station said on November 2nd 1978 :

Ha~y kha<'c phu.c mo.i kho' kha<n, thu*? tha'ch, tie^'n han`nh cuo^.c
kha'n chie^'n cho^'ng Ta`u xa<m lu*o*.c, toa`n da^n se~ sung su*o*'ng, 
ha.nh phu'c sau khi tha`nh co^ng...!

What we see Vietnam today ? It still remains, literally and metaphorically,
embattled.

>  This is the season to be harmonious, to think of family and friends.
>Enjoy this time... and I hope you will carry this loving feeling all
>through the year.

At last, I am in harmony with you in one goal !

>  Best wishes to you all.
>
>Regards,

The same to you,

Regards,

Newsgroups: alt.politics.vietnamese