HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:37:59 EDT
From: ^[corrigible <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: The Canadian Experience with Gun Control
 <9210101810.AA00256@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>

In article <9210101810.AA00256@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU (Andy
Freeman) says:
>
>I care a great deal about the experience of the civilized world.  I've
>researched the impact of gun control in the UK, Canada, Australia,
>Mexico, Jamaica, and US jurisdictions.  It hasn't produced any
>reduction in crime.  Low crime countries before gun control are low
>crime countries afterwards.  High crime countries before gun control
>are high crime countries afterwards.
I'm sorry, when did the UK, Canada and Australia introduce gun control?
It is a fallacy to suggest that at some time in modern history we were
highly armed societies that were suddenly disarmed. There has always been
gun control in these 3 countries, while it has been tightened over time
to suggest that there is a "before and after effect" of being armed
and disarmed or of having no restrictions followed by tight restrictions is
simply misleading if not self-delusional.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:20:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: CAU$E$ OF WAR$

Martin,

        Did you know our friend recently posted a book review of a book
which he says gives the FINAL SOLUTION to ALL PHYSICS PROBLEMS?  I remember
that it was more or less identical to another posting from him from
February or March, just before I lost my account.  At the time the term
final solution when applied to any problem by someone with his type of
mentality made me quite nervous.  I also read another post by this great
wonder which I may have mentioned, in which he talked about how the Russians
have three secret military bases on the moon, from which they control the
world's weather.  They have destroyed all America's spy satellites, and are
able to control people's minds with rays.  They have built anti-gravity
machines.  Pretty good for a country whose TV sets are always blowing up.
I told you this guy is psuchiatrically interesting!  Even more then me!

                                        Chris Morrison
                                        CMorriso@snyescva.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:47:53 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ==> 3 BUSH TAX AD `STARS' LINKED TO CAMPAIGN
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@OHSTVMA.IUPUI.EDU>
              11 Oct 1992 20:47:55 GMT from <thf2@ELLIS.UCHICAGO .EDU>

On Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:47:55 GMT Citecheck Hell said:

>I'm less concerned that the people in the Bush ad were all friends
>of the campaign (this is a surprise?), but I'm much more curious
>as to how the tax increases were calculated.  Is there any factual
>basis to the ad?  Or is it lying that is especially blatant by
>the Bush campaign?
>
>(Wouldn't it be a great commercial to show this Canes fellow being
>interviewed saying that the Bushes were lying about how his taxes
>would be raised under Clinton?)

Since Clinton committed himself to definite partitions in income &
taxation (only those > $200'000 / year), I trust those who have
screamed diligently about Bush breaking his promise will be as
consistent when Clinton raises their taxes...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:52:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Did you vote for Carter

        By the way, I weasn't exactly in favor of the Russians going into
Afghanistan, but I thought they had no choice, and if they were sure they
could defeat the guerrillas they should try, but be ready to pull out.  Boy,
was I wrong then too.  I am glad I wasn't in a position to be asked.

                                        Chris Morrison
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:36:59 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: return of the international zionist freemason conspiracy from
              hell
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@OHSTVMA.IUPUI.EDU>

On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:44:00 EDT welcome to the faith dome explosion said:
>I take back what I said about Robert McElwaine taking over Mitch's
>role as list conspiracist.  Mitch was small potatoes compared to this guy.
>
>>               The "volcanic" disaster in Cameroon, Africa in August
>>          1986, which killed 1,700 people there, was really a NEUTRON
>>          BOMB, tested BY ISRAEL for the United States, [4-14-87
>>          "National Examiner"].  (Note that the volcanic lake was
>
>Ah, the National Examiner, that well-renowned source of factual data
>on world events.

Good thing the National Examiner knows more about science than most of
the science magazines I read.  They all attributed the disaster to
gas...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: 199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET (Tyrone Slothrop)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: RE: michelle e. olson
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:17:00 GMT
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From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: michelle e. olson


        I have a bunch of them too.  One of them said if I gave them $5,000
I could have lunch with the President every so often.

        If you want to have any private meetings of the committee, let
me know.
                                        The Dirty Old Man,
                                        Chris Morrison

*******************

really?  clinton will have lunch with you if you give the republicans
5 K?

brni
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Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:41:37 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Guns, Freud, and Psychology

>Hang on to your hats, folks, this one's a corker. Andy Freeman
>actually said:
> "Freud said that gun/ weapons FEAR was associated with psychological
>problems, that such fear was manifested in attempts to ban and control
>said weapons of others."
>  I know, it's hard to believe that anyone could stoop to such dazzlingly
>stupid fabrication (Oliver North would be proud!), let alone expect to

At this point, I expected to see relevant evidence.  Deleting the
ad hominen, what we get is:

>"It is quite unmistakable that all weapons and tools are *USED* as symbols
>for the male organ: eg ploughshare, hammer, gun, revolver, dagger, sword,
>[_Basic Writings_, p.373; emphasis added]

So?  I said the Freud thought that weapons were penis symbols to some
people; thanks for providing supporting evidence.  I pointed out that
Freud thought that the people who made that association were NOT
people who had them, that the "guns are penis" attitude was associated
with gun controllers/banners, not gun owners.  (We could look at gun
CHOICES to see other ways that the theory fails.)

At this point, we've got two alternatives.  Did Morse find that quote
himself, and not bother to look for something relevant to the point
under discussion, or did he refer to canned "gun control is good"
arguments without bothering with whether or not they were relevant?
On second thought, is there an interesting difference between them?

>People like Andy and Robert are a disgrace to American education.

Nice rant Morse.  Too bad he aimed it in the wrong direction.  I've
reviewed the available data.  While it would be convenient if gun
control "worked", the real world isn't necessarily convenient.  Gun
control is an example of this.

Interested readers may want to read two articles from "The Public
Interest".  The first, James D. Wright's "Second Thoughts About Gun
Control" (in No. 91, Spring 88) reviews some of the arguments and data
about the relationship between gun control and crime.* The second, B.
Bruce-Briggs' "The Great American Gun" (in No. 45, Fall 76) discusses
the gun control debate, showing how it really isn't about crime, but
about other values.**

-andy

* - Wright's article is a good introduction to the subject but can't
be considered comprehensive.  Wright, Rossi, and Daly's "Under the
Gun" is a good review of the pre-1980 data, but its major contribution
is in pointing out how useless that data is.  Kleck's "Point Blank" is
much better for people who are interested in relevant data.

** - Tonso's "Social Science and Sagecraft in the Debate over Gun
Control", in Law and Policy Quarterly, Volume 5, No. 3, (July 83)
discusses the role that academics have played.
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:56:53 CDT
From:         "McAbee, Tracy" <TMCABEE1@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Electoral College

Greetings everyone,
  I was wondering if anyone has a copy of the latest electoral college
votes per state since the last re-districting.  What I need to know is
how many electoral college votes each state now has.  If anyone out there
has them, I would appreciate a copy either posted or sent to me e-mail.
Also, I am new to the list so I don't know how much of this goes on, but
I was wondering if there were any state-by-state reports of how the campaign
is going?  As for here, Alabama, Bush had a comfortable lead, but I think
the re-entry of Perot may have put our 9 electoral votes up in the air, with
Clinton having an equal shot at them.  If this is not appropriate discussion,
sorry.  Thanks in advance for the information....

                       Tracy McAbee

                       BITNET : TMCABEE1@UA1VM
                     INTERNET : TMCABEE1@UA1VM.UA.EDU
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:51:27 -0400
From:         Andrew Allen <E7L8ALL@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: kneejerk conservatism

>this whole "maybe clinton was a soviet spy-guy" thing is ridiculous.
>is *anybody* (well, anybody who doesn't fantasize about rush limbaugh, a
>vat of whipped cream, and leather goods) buying this business?
>just curious.

There is a small community in California named Whittier where this
belief is very popular. It will be interesting to see if screaming
"commie" still works.

>anneliese.

-other Andy
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:50:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Did you vote for Carter

        I thought I was too good to vote until 1988, at the age of 41!  In
retrospect I think it was damned childish of me.  I did not like Carter very
much the first time, although by the end I would have been happy to see any
Democrat win.  The second time I could see that not only was Carter at the
end of his run, the Democratic Party had just not learned anything from the
Nixon-Ford years.  My big idea then was that the failure to maintain a
non-communist South Vietnam meant the failure of containment based entirely
on force, and I thought the U.S. would have to go to a strategy of political
containment.  Boy, was I wrong!  I thought it might be nice if the Right
under Reagan had a chance to try out their policies, too, because by then
I thought leadership in any direction was better than no leadership.  But
I still think that it was the intellectual and moral ideas of the West that
won the cold war, the military aspect of the Reagan build-up just preserved
the West until the Communist world collapsed of its own accord.  I was much
too fond of thinking freely to be a leftist for very long, and once the
West seemed to start believing in itself again its ideas seemed to catch on.
But I'm sure you remember how Carter kept looking smaller and smaller in
the political cartyoons.  I remember one of him looking like a little dwarf
sitting on a stack of books, very nervous and about to pee his pants.  At
the other end of the table an enraged huge Brezhnev was standing up and
yelling "You'll whip my what?"  Of course later on we found out that Brezhnev
couldn't stand without support, and care was needed to keep him from walking
into walls.  This seemed to be true of the Soviet Union and its entire empire.

                                        Chris Morrison
                                        CMorriso@snyescva.bitnet
From: SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET (welcome to the faith dome explosion)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: michelle e. olson
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:31:00 GMT
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Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

>        I have a bunch of them too.  One of them said if I gave them $5,000
>I could have lunch with the President every so often.

Did any of them call you Michelle? :)

(yeesh, this list is quiet - must be watching the playoffs or something)

>                                        Chris Morrison

Gary W. Olson                "My lips may promise but my heart is a whore"
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU  - Nine Inch Nails, "Last"
20 days and counting down...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:06:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: THE LAW OF RETRIBUTION

        I believe in the Law of Retribution, and sooner or later McElwaine
will get it.

                                                Chris Morrison
From: CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: the kErry tickEt
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:48:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"


        I am very intereted in candidate positions on Guiness.

                                                Chris Morrison
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date: 09 Oct 92 09:05 PDT
Subject: The Decline of America: A "Kinder, 
Nf-ID: #N:9210091600.AA06070@tba.msi.corne:1675634090:000:2451
Nf-From: math.cornell.edu!harelb    Oct  9 09:05:00 1992


Subject: The Decline of America: A "Kinder, Gentler Nation"
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)

The Decline of America: A "Kinder, Gentler Nation"


==================================================================
Mortality rate per 100,000 due to homicide for children age 1 to
        19, 1983-86, and for males age 15 to 24, 1986-87:
==================================================================

COUNTRY(12)   CHILDREN AGE 1-19    MALES AGE 15-24

U.S. black         10.7                  85.6
United States       3.7                  21.9
Denmark             1.5                   1.0
Canada              1.1                   2.9
Switzerland         1.0                   1.4
Belgium             0.9                   1.7
Germany             0.8                   1.0
Norway              0 7                   3 3
France              0.5                   1.4
United Kingdom      0.5                   1.2
Netherlands         0.4                   1.4
Spain               0 3                   ---
Ireland             0.2                   1.3
New Zealand         --                    4.4
Finland             --                    3.0
Australia           --                    2.5
Sweden              --                    2.3
Japan               --                    0.5

Sources (for chart and text): Bret C. Williams and C. Arden Miller,
Preventive Health Care for Young Children (Arlington, Va.: National
Center for Clinical Infant Programs, 1991), p. 73; Lois A. Fingehut
and Joel C.  Kleinman, "International and Interstate Comparisons of
Homicide Among Young Males," JAMA, vol. 263, no. 24, June 27, 1990. p.
3293.

******************************************************************

From: 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  
_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New    
World Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro.   

New York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House.   
$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   

    "America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor.   
    This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The   
    facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But   
    ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation."   

                        -Robert B. Reich, author of The Work of Nations   



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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:31:38 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ==> 2nd Debate: Bush Just Doesn't Get It! (Rhetoric vs.
              Realit y)
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@OHSTVMA.IUPUI.EDU>
              16 Oct 1992 02:38:16 CDT from <U56503@UICVM.UIC.ED U>

On Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:38:16 CDT <U56503@UICVM.UIC.EDU> said:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Information in the public interest which does not imply that it
>is the opinion of UIC.  Contact 75300.3115@compuserve.com for
>further information.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why doesn't 75300.3115@compuserve.com just subscribe for themselves?

Or are they like that misc.bs guy who posts but never contributes?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: nmiller@STARBASE.TRINCOLL.EDU ((norman miller))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: New Mexico information needed
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:02:01 GMT
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Comments: To: politics%ucf1vm.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu

Does anyone know the names of the gubernatorial candidates
running in New Mexico this year?  I'm especially interested
in the minor parties.

Thanks in advance.

Norman Miller
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu
nmiller@trincc.bitnet
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 01:28:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: post-debate reaction

        Yeah, I already sent a longer message to Clinton@marist, but I don't
know whether it was ahead of anybody here.  Maybe I'll send one here, but
not right now.  Perot won, but I think Clinton did more than well enough
to keep the lead going.

                                        Chris Morrison
                                        CMorriso@snyescva.bitnet

"I'm all ears."                   --Ross Perot
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 01:25:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: post-debate reaction: yes, my spirit is snoring!

The American people just don't care about the demonstrations, and Perot said
that quite well tonight, the difference about mistakes when you're young and
mistakes when you're in authority.

                                        Chris Morrison
From: MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU (K=A*T)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Drats! Foiled Again
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:17:01 GMT
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From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET

> Well, I managed to download a batch of archive files from the listserv.
> Unfortuantely, my system won't let me actually _receive_ them in a form I can
> read; the file far exceeds my account quota, so I can't get into them.

> Unless anyone has any ideas, I suppose this ends my search for Jamie's
> comments.  I would appreciate it if he would retract his insinuation that I
> lied about him making the remarks in question,but I guess I really don't care
> one way or the other since I know I'm right.

Ok, I am gonna do *Jamie* a favor and volunteer.     :-)

If you tell me what time periods you are interested, I will
download and send you only those messages posted by Jamie.

For the interest of fairness, I want you to know that I think you were
wrong on most counts.

Let me know by private mail.

> Jason

--KAT
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:36:00 EDT
From:         welcome to the faith dome explosion <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: washington post
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

>Have any other major newspapers committed themselves yet?  I don't think the
>New York Times has come out yet.  Since I get the International Herald Tribune,
>which carries editorial from the Times and the Post, I think I would have
>noticed by now.  If Clinton loses now, it won't be have been because the vast
>majority of the media were against him, as was the case in the British election
>in April.

Well, the Detroit Free Press has (predictably) backed Clinton, and the Detroit
News has (predictably) backed Bush, although the News was considerably tepid
in it's support.

>james p mc bride

Gary W. Olson                "My lips may promise but my heart is a whore"
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU  - Nine Inch Nails, "Last"
22 days and counting down...
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:44:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: post-debate reaction: yes, my spirit is snoring!

>do so, and it shouldn't be any mystery why - the debate was utterly mudane,
>etherial, and uninspiring.

well, i had to work all wkend - catering 2 birthdays and a wedding. which meant
that i missed the debate. i was frustrated when i finally caught the news,
hoping for some debate "highlights" or whatever. every news station used
the same clips from the candidates...

could it be ...... a CONSPIRACY????

anyway, now i realize i didn't miss much. oh well, just another round of same ol
sh....stuff.

-linda
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