HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr)
Subject: Re: double blind
Organization: gisle@ifi.uio.no
	<1992Sep28.181941.3425@memstvx1.memst.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:59:03 GMT
Originator: gisle@gyda.ifi.uio.no

In article <1992Sep28.181941.3425@memstvx1.memst.edu> isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

> When I did the purif, I got up each morning, bathed, and ate 
> breakfast.  Then I drove to the Church, took my vitamins and went 
> jogging.  I jogged for about twenty-five minutes, and then took a shower
> to cool of before I got in the sauna.  After about five hours in the 
> shower [sauna?] I got out and changed clothes.  Later in the afternoon
> I helped to clean up the sauna. Each day there was about two tablespoons of
> dark-gray gritty substance on the tile floor that comes out in your sweat.
> Like I said, I don't know what it was, but It couldn't have been dirt
> because I was clean when I got in there and the sauna was clean when I
> got in.  Also I took several showers between the beginning and end of the
> session.
>
> Some kind of crap definitely comes out of your body.  Like you said,
> this really can't be that hard to verify.  I'm sure that you can get access
> to a sauna and try it for yourself.  Just guessing, I would say that most
> of it is probably vitamins, because you take a lot of them.
> Any ideas what that substance was?

Yes, more than a dozen -- none of them involving substances coming out of
your body.  You state that you took several showers during the session,
and any material dissolved in your sweat should by washed away by the
showers.  But without knowing anything about the design of the sauna, the
type of oven used for heating, the type of porous rock used for steaming
and the purity of water used to produce the steam, I can't see any point
in guessing.  Actually -- even knowing all those things and a number of
other details -- I still can't see any point in guessing...

Rather than speculating, I'd rather just see that lab report.

And if I were paying top dollars for the PR, and was an a journey of
finding out about Scientology, I'd put a lot of effort into getting
that lab report.  Fortunately -- I'm neighter.
--
Disclaimer: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS!  MINE!  MINE!  ALL MINE!
 
- gisle hannemyr  (Norsk Regnesentral)
  OSI:   C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=nr;S=Hannemyr;G=Gisle (X.400 SA format)
         gisle.hannemyr@nr.no                      (RFC-822  format)
  Inet:  gisle@ifi.uio.no
  UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ifi!gisle
------------------------------------------------
From: houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Medical Science
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:26:38 GMT
Organization: New Mexico Tech

In article <BvB9xJ.ABp.2@cs.cmu.edu> lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay) writes:

>However, descriptions of the Purif keep bringing in things that
>aren't fat soluble, and/or leave *no* known residue in the body.  My
>Merck (14th edition, 1982) doesn't mention storage in its sections on
>addiction to opiates, barbiturates, cocaine, amphetamines, PCPs,
>solvents, nitrites, and alcohol. It does mention that "metabolic
>products of marijuana are retained in the tissues for as long as 8
>days".  Concerning LSD, "the mechanisms that produce flashbacks are
>not known, but they tend to subside over a period of 6 months to a
>year". LSD isn't fat soluble, BTW.

	The mechanisms that do produce flashbacks are well known,  and
they have very little to do with LSD itself,  except for the fact that
LSD might directly or indirectly do something to the amygdala that makes it
easier for the brain to write a memory in such a way that it becomes a
flashback.  The theory is that we have flashbacks to prior experiences all
the time,  even if we don't take acid.  When a person who does take acid
have a vivid memory of an acid experience,  this will stick out since
acid experiences (and memories of them) are pretty strange and different
from normal experience that people will pay attention to the flashbacks.

	When flashbacks cause problems for people,  this is generally
considered to be the same as post-traumatic stress disorder and is treated
in the same way.  Whereas a person might be bothered because they remember
the time the floor tried to kill them when they took too many mushrooms,  this
is the same as a person who is bothered because he remembers the time that
his buddies got shot up in Vietnam.  Fortunately because LSD memories have
weird submodality markers,  they don't seem to integrate well into a
personality without concentrated efforts;  So even a friend of mine who had
bad flashbacks (enough to make him change the route he took to class) got
over them entirely in a few months.

	Of course,  different schools of psychology have effective ways
of dealing with PSTD and probably the dianetics people have their own.


-- 
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: double blind
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:13:17 GMT


homer@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Homer Smith) writes:
>     This is all very well documented in some of the very books
>that you have in your faq list, you have read them all, right?

No, I've never said that I've read them all. That FAQ is a community
service: it's every reference that I catch in my nets, for good or
ill. 


>     This is my view of exteriorization.  I have known a number of
>people who claim to have gone out side of their bodies for short times.
>They invariably said it was scary as hell and went right back in.
>Sometimes they find themselves over in the other corner looking on
>at the room, and then they realize they are out, and bang they
>go back in again.

You make it sound remarkably like a brief perceptual glitch. If this
happened to me, I would not consider it proof of the existence of a
soul/thetan. Aside from Occam's Razor, "extraordinary claims demand
extraordinary evidence". The second cousin to a dizzy spell hardly
qualifies as a compelling reason to trash modern physics.

>     It is one thing the be out of your body, 3 feet back of your head
>as Hubbard is always saying, and guite another to be FREE of the body
>and go wandering where ever you will.  It is doubtful that
>many people have attained this state stabily,

Hubbard claimed to have visited the Van Allen belt, among other
places. 

>     Maybe there have been demonstrations and you were busy
>doing something else that day.  
>     The idea that if people could do this kind of thing that you
>and the whole world would know about it the next day is frivolous
>and demonstrates a lack of grasp on the ramifications of such a thing.

I beg your pardon? Have you ever heard of something called the
scientific literature? Among the million-plus scientists alive, a
great many pay attention to such stuff, and they often write about
it. This has been true for a great many years. Nor did Scientology
get invented yesterday.

As a scientist, I don't deal in certainties. There is a chance that
these (rather common) occurrences are solely perceptual glitches/
hallucinations, hypnotic suggestions, and the like. I rate that chance
as "superb" [to use Penrose's phrase]. There is a chance that it
implies the existence of the soul. I rate that chance as "vanishing".
I would love to be proved wrong.

Meanwhile, paranoia is bad mental health. Give it a rest.


-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Subject: Re: Creed.
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations
	<Bv5BBn.8Lu.2@cs.cmu.edu><1992Sep26.131245.3402@memstvx1.memst.edu>
	<SCG.92Sep28101031@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<1992Sep28.190849.3427@memstvx1.memst.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:24:43 GMT

isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>Its very relevant.  I never said the charges were withholding
>evidience on Prozac.  All I said is that they withheld evidence. 

So, you are impeaching Lilly's corporate character (by bringing up an
unrelated issue) in order to substantiate the claim that Prozac is
evil.  This is a logical fallacy; bonus points go to the student who
can identify which type.

--
The US has a vital interest in that area of the country.
		-- Vice President Dan Quayle, referring to Latin America.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle)
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:46:17 GMT

In article <BvowrJ.K9y@cup.hp.com> decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot) writes:
>> 1. What exactly is 'Clearsound'?
>
>It's the amazing new sound technology that's the most astounding
>completely original discovery made by L. Ron Hubbard since the
>phonograph!  It apparently has something to do with recording
>on tape, but the details are of course, based on hundreds of hours
>of OT auditing research and can't be released...

	Actually,  I was reading an article in People magazine (OK,  I
admit it!) about Tom Cruise's latest movie Far and Away,  and it said
that both Tom Cruise and his wife are members of the COS and that they
insisted that the movie be recorded on some special sound gear that
was designed or provided by the COS.  Is this called "clearsound"?
Does anybody know anything about it?


--
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: A Question for Critics.
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:29:48 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Oct1.183024.3485@memstvx1.memst.edu>
isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes: 
>
>To  :  Scientology Critics
>From:  John Holifield
>
>    Why have you spent so much of your time trying to make Scientology
>and L. Ron Hubbard look like an evil fraud?  

John - actually, it's just a hobby. :-)

Seriously though - it's not just Scn I pick on.  I expend energy
whenever I see someone making what I perceive to be a fraudulent
or extraordinary claim, no matter the subject.

If Scn didn't make such extraordinary claims and then waffle so much
when asked to produce evidence, I wouldn't care nearly so much.  I
don't go around bashing every belief system that differs with mine.
It's when they start trying to tell me everything I know is wrong that
I get involved. If Scn would stick to being a religion, I'd not give
it a second thought, except perhaps a chuckle at the wonderful scam
Ron pulled. 

On Usenet the groups I read most avidly include alt.alien.visitors,
alt.conspiracy, alt.religion.scientology, sci.skeptic, and
talk.origins.  I subscribe to the Skeptical Inquirer.  I see myself as
a general-purpose skeptic, not a single-issue one.

You addressed your post to 'critics'.  I'm only a critic because my
skepticism has not been answered, and the evidence that Scn is not
legitimate science, but a scam whose sole purpose is to make money,
continues to mount up.

Give me a controlled study, an article in a peer-reviewed scientific
journal, or primary-source evidence to refute charges of past fraud,
and I'd be considerably less critical.  Till then, don't expect me to
roll over & play dead.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent)
----------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot)
Subject: Re: WINS!!!
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:45:52 GMT
Organization: HP
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

: >>>Also, if any of you Scientologists have not yet accepted the General
: >>>Amnesty
: 
: hey, what is this General Amnesty, anyway?

If it is like earlier similar (!) amnesties, it is an attempt to bring back
to Scientology people who left Scientology after being accused of "crimes",
provided that they freely and sorrowfully admit to the crimes and anything
else they want to confess about.

Dave
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Other Services.
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:03:03 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Sep28.091749.15731@lds-az.loral.com>
jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes: 
[descriptions of a whole bunch of really neat-sounding Scn courses]

Jerry - could you post the costs associated with these?  Thanks.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: ABLE
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:54:15 GMT


isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>> In my experience, reports of reports of reports do not
>> often resemble the original.

>    Good Point Don.  I wonder though why you don't apply the same
>logic to the Xemu article you post every week.  (grin...)

Oh, I do. You may have noticed that that FAQ has two parts, which
disagree on something as fundamental as the name (Xemu versus Xenu).
Clearly, both are at some remove from whatever is the underlying
truth. I have kept this deficiency out in the open. My alternative
was to clean the FAQ up a bit: to edit it into a report. I didn't.

Further, I have appealed, here on this newsgroup, for information or
references which would allow me to improve that FAQ. Perhps you can
help - and of course you're welcome to post a Xenu FAQ of your own.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Other Services.
Date: 29 Sep 1992 00:46:30 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: szechuan.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Sep28.091749.15731@lds-az.loral.com> jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes:
>   Hubbard Key to Life Course.  1990 saw the long-awaited release of the
>monumental Hubbard Key to Life Course.  Years in preparation, the final
>course materials consist of 13 illustrated books, with a total of 2,200
>pages and almost 4,000 paintings, illustrations and photographs.  In less
>than a year, thousands and thousands of Scientologists have enrolled on
>this course, and report astonishing, life-changing wins.

Only 2,200 pages in 13 books?  Hell, get the O'Reilly and Associates X
Toolkit Intrinsics Reference Manual.  It's darn near 900 pages alone
and after mastering the X Toolkit I assure you that your life will
have changed.

>   What is the Key to Life?

42.

Damned Terrans, always asking silly questions.

Maximum improbablity, Trillian.  We're outa here.

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"When the cells are talking, you have to listen to them..."
                            - Liz Yoder, UCSD Neuroscience graduate student
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Monday, 28 Sep 1992 09:27:41 EDT
From: David Ehresman <DEEHRE01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Just wondering if anybody's from where I'm from

Well I'm not from Louisville, but I've been living here for the
last 12 years (my wife is from Louisville); I was raised in the
southeastern part of KY (Leslie and Bell counties).

My parents and a sister live in Fairview, NC, just outside of
Ashville.  I worked in Hickory, NC the summer of '75.
From: ljhr@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Stories wanted
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:29:54 GMT

I'm interested in getting ahold of any ghost stories or other such weirdness
from people who live in or used to live in Appalachia.  If you could identify
the area from which the story comes (state, county, township, town) I'd be
grateful.
From: tlloyd@lloyd.next.com (Todd N. Loyd home account)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Just wondering if anybody's from where I'm from
Date: 6 Oct 92 06:55:15 GMT

In article <92272.092741DEEHRE01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>  
DEEHRE01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (David Ehresman) writes:
> Well I'm not from Louisville, but I've been living here for the
> last 12 years (my wife is from Louisville); I was raised in the
> southeastern part of KY (Leslie and Bell counties).
> 
> My parents and a sister live in Fairview, NC, just outside of
> Ashville.  I worked in Hickory, NC the summer of '75.

Sorry, but I'm not from Louisville, but I am from Asheville (note the  
spelling, please) -- the home of the largest private home in the World --  
"The Biltmore House".
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: banjo query
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:37:11 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN

Foxfire 3 (or so) has a section on banjos.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: banjo query
Date: 3 Oct 92 11:47:44 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <16697@pitt.UUCP>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
> "That Half Barbaric Twang" by Karen Linn discusses this.
> 
> The banjo was so ubiquitous that it got everywhere in the US.
> It just didn't disappear in the Appalachians, as it did most
> everywhere else.

I've read Karen Linn's book and informative as it is, it's a good
example of how in spite of considerable research on the history of the
banjo the basic question is still unanswered, namely the question how it
got from being a black plantation instrument to being a white
Appalachian instrument.

Notice that (as Linn's book documents), at the time the banjo became
ubiquitous, it (a) was being played in the "classical" style, rather
like a guitar, and (b) spread among the middle class (university
students especially).  It can't be that *this* is what survived in the
Appalachians, because the Appalachian playing style was/is the original,
"down-picking" style of the plantation while what spread into
middle-class parlors was the new "classical" style, and also because people
living in Appalachia wouldn't have been exposed to the essentially
urban banjo fad.

In addition one would have to find some other Appalachian survivals of
this kind (my hunch is, though I'm certainly not that knowledgeable
about Appalachia, that those at least would not be hard to find...).
-- 
********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Homecoming
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:35:53 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN

Anyone going to Homecoming at the Museum of Appalachia in Norris, Tennessee? 
Lots of crafts, music, demostrations, etc.  I think it's the second or third
weekend in October.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Forword Joke re: Banjos
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:20:42 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS


At the risk of offending at least one of my nearest &
dearest who reads this group, I hereby exhort everybody
to trot out their hoariest banjo jokes (and fiddle jokes,
while you're at it).  Now *that's* appalachia!

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: largeman@aol.com (Beefta LargeMan)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Scratch 'n' Dent Beemer
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:01:41 GMT
Followup-To: alt.appalachian
Organization: HeadGuy Software

In article <1992Sep30.201240.14585@cs.unca.edu>, streeter@cs.unca.edu (Tom
Streeter) wrote:
> 
> BMW is breaking ground on their new assembly plant in Spartanburg Co.
> South Carolina.  A question occurred to me this morning:  are they 
> going to really get into the spirit of being a factory in the south and
> have an outlet store?
> 
The real question is whether the Germans remember the song by 
Johnny Cash about working in a Cadillac (sp) factory: "One piece at a time"

A song about a '61,'62,'63,'64,'65,'66,'67, .... Caddie
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: banjo query
Date: 26 Sep 92 09:06:36 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Tom Streeter said something earlier about "getting the traffic up" so
I hope readers won't mind something a little extraneous.

I have long had the dream of, some day, when I retire maybe,
researching and writing a really good book on the history of the
banjo.  (I'm a player (old-time styles) but not yet a researcher.)

The history of the banjo in America is a mysterious history in some
ways.  One of the major problems is: how did the instrument get from
being a black plantation instrument to being a white Appalachian
instrument?  If some of you who know the history of the area have any
insights into this question, I'd be grateful for them.

And by golly--how I do envy those of you who live in the area!  I
can't even get to the Mt. Airy festival because it's too far away...

********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+
From: DEEHRE01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (David Ehresman)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: location of towns?
Date: 25 Sep 92 12:44:41 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Sep23.213836.15810@husc3.harvard.edu>, ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu
(Nathan Rose) says:
>
>Can anyone tell me the location (ideally by county) of any of the following
>towns?
>
>Harrogate, TN
>
Harrogate, TN, home of Lincoln Memorial University, is on the
Ky-Tn border just south of Middlesburo, KY.  Middlesburo is in
Bell county, Ky, but I'm not sure of the Tn county.  This is also
just over the mountain from Cumberland Gap National Park.
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: banjo query
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:45:43 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

"That Half Barbaric Twang" by Karen Linn discusses this.

The banjo was so ubiquitous that it got everywhere in the US.
It just didn't disappear in the Appalachians, as it did most
everywhere else.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------