HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nunn@sura.net (Deborah Nunn)
Subject: Re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.184341.705@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>In article <5zfmfz@lynx.unm.edu> dgalb@carina.unm.edu (David Galbraith CIRT) writes:
>>I've been following this debate, and I just have a quick point to bring up.
>>
>>When you buy a car, you should look not just at the car, but at the dealer
>>to.
>>
>>
>good point.  assume all dealers and their employees suck(cause most do) and
>pick a car that is not likely to have to go back to dealer.
>

But that's just the point!  Well, at least it's one of the points.  My
dealer *doesn't* suck.  I have no doubt that there are other quite
competent dealers out there, but when I describe the level of service my
dealer has provided me, people are astonished.  Maybe the Saturn dealer- 
ship doesn't really care, but they sure make you feel like they do!  I
don't care which car is better.  I am sure they are both very nice.  All
I care about is that I love my car (SL2) I loved my salesman, and I love
my dealership as a whole. I haven't come across one employee there who
was not the epitome of courteousness and genuine concern.

Just my $.02 worth.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm)
Subject: Re: Sentra SE-R VS. Saturn SL2 (was re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:43:42 GMT


Acctually you should compare the Nissan Sentra SE-R and
the Saturn SC Coupe (2-door)

Jeff
Who would love to have a Sentra GXE 4-door, with SE-R engine
tires and suspension.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: butler@quest.comm.mot.com (Jim Butler)
Subject: Camaro/Firebird clubs in Chicago area?
Reply-To: butler@quest.comm.mot.com (Jim Butler)
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:59:54 GMT
Keywords: camaro firebird club chicago


	Is anyone aware of a Camaro/Firebird (GM F body) special interest
group in the Chicago or Chicago suburban area?  I'm interested in getting
all of the information I can on the '70-'81 model years (interchanging
parts, axles, brakes, etc., etc.)

	I appreciate any help.

	Jim

--
Jim Butler (butler@Quest.comm.mot.com)
From: rkushner@sycom.mi.org (Ronald Kushner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Non-CFC A/C - What is the real scoop?
Distribution: world
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.95r
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:47:37 EST
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

In an article, nstern@cass.ma02.bull.com (Neil Stern) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking to purchase a new car and I would like to know the
>real scoop on auto a/c and CFC's. I have 3 basic questions:
>
>1) For how long will CFC refrigerants be available, and affordable?

Not too much longer. If either Bush or Gore/Clinton are elected, expect
a total phase out of R-12 by 1995.

>2) What cars are available today (or will be available for the '93 model
>   year) that use non-CFC refrigerant?

BMW, Chrysler LH & ZJ lines(LH = Concord  Intrepid  Vision '94 New Yorker - 
ZJ = Jeep Grand Cherokee and Grang Wagoneer), and some GM models which were
re-engineered for '92(Bonneville?) - I lost my full list. Basically as
platforms are being phased out, so is R-12.

>3) Can a car that currently uses CFC refrigerant also use the new 
>   non-CFC refrigerants, or is there a fundamental difference between
>   the types of A/C units?  In other words, can one replace the 
>   refrigerant with non-CFC refrigerant?

NO! The head pressures of R-134a are probably way too high for current
condensors and compressors. Plus the capacity of 134a is ALOT less than
R-12. Might as well fill it with Carbon Dioxide.

Basically, don't get A/C on a car if it uses R-12, it's not worth it. By the
time it's time to junk the car, reclaiming the ref. might cost up to $200. I
currently work for a Carrier dealer and we raised our rates for warranty
compressor changes $150 because we have to pump down the systems and
reclaim/dispose of the burnt refridgerant. Two years ago I bought a 30lb jug
of R-12 for $25, now the same can costs $60+ and all the added cost goes
into Uncle Sam's pockets.

>Thanks!

Are you sure?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com (Santa Wiryaman)
Subject: Re: How much is too much for a Used Car ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:52:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.160944.1@dranet.dra.com> chris@dranet.dra.com writes:
>
>I've checked to books (NADA and Edmunds) and they say the
>average retail of this car is about $7000 - $7500. The local
>dealers, however, are starting the price of this type of car
>at about $9000 and up.
>
>My question is that do the dealers really jack up the price
>of these cars by $2000?  
>

Most likely more, especially if they got the car from a buyer who traded in
the car.  They most likely paid less than the wholesale price for the car and
list it for more than the list price to give lots of room to bargain with you.
My best advice is to ask the dealer for the name and phone number of the
previous owner of the car.  Call this person up asking for the price of the
car (not trade-in allowance as this is inflated to include the discount of the
new car he/she got).  For example, in a trade I just did with a dealer my
trade in allowance was $5800 for my old car that was worth $2000 - $3200 (the
upper range was the NADA wholesale price, other dealerships offered ~$2000).
From the discount they offered me on the new car I figured the dealer paid me
$2600.  The dealer resells the car with a list price of $4900 (NADA list price
was $4100).  Even selling at wholesale price the dealer still has a profit.
It is also a good idea to ask the previous owner about the condition of the
car, service history, accidents, etc.  With this info you'll be better prepared
to deal with the dealer.

Good luck,

>
>Chris Yunker  
>
>


-- 
Santa Wiryaman

INTERNET : wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com
UUCP     : ...!decwrl!riscee.pko.dec.com!wiryaman
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ph279sw@prism.gatech.EDU (FR SIGING WEI)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL (SE-R & SC)
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:10:05 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Why, my, I wan wondering why some people likes Saturn sounds
like the old generation of Chinese Reverulationary?

Statements like "How about my 69 XXX" or "67 XXX", come on
it is in 90's now, sure there are great times of American
auto makers, but face it, they have been screwing up for
last 10 or so years.

I thought that I won't hear those teacher saying things, back 
in China, like "American is nothing, nor is Europeans, you know
we invented gun powder and compass, thousands years ago, without
those inventions, they will be nowhere even now!"
Or maybe, it is more familiar to say " my dad can beat your dad"
but who cares, if I am beaten right now?

So, go back to the GOOD OLD TIME if you want to, 
but just remember, the earth spins along without waiting for you.
From: pnelson@opus.Tymnet.COM (Phil Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Chrysler LeBaron
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:40:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <7446@monmouth.edu> bibbo@moncol.monmouth.edu (The Monk!) writes:
>
>I am thinking about buying a LeBaron and, never having owned a Chrysler
>car before, was wondering if there are any LeBaron owners out there who
>who have any interesting information (good or bad).

 I have a 1990 Lebaron GT (not the turbo 4, but the 3.0 V6). I kind of like
the car, the V6 (Mitsubishi) has good low-end torque and sounds good. I like
the analog gauge package very much, and I paid under 15K for it.

	BUT:

Buying this car was the most unpleasant purchase experience of my entire life.
The salesman lied about the car being all American, and who knows what else.
The fit and finish on the car was dismal.  3 different dealers dragged their
feet instead of fixing the squeaks, rattles, ill-fitting door, etc. until
they wore me out. The Chrysler district rep. was totally unhelpful and
incredibly rude. The person who answered the 800 number simply referred
me to the district rep.

If I ever buy a new car again, it almost certainly will not be a Chrysler.

>thank you...

You're welcome

>Steven R. Bibbo                       NET   : bibbo@moncol.monmouth.edu

Please note that this is my own private experience and opinion, it is
independant of my employer.

Phil Nelson . [ames|pyramid]!oliveb!tymix!pnelson . Voice:408-922-7508

  To make an apt answer is a joy to a man,
       and a word in season, how good it is!            Proverbs 15:23
From: blosser_cy@lrc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: IT'S YOUR FAULT!
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:42:30 GMT
Organization: Lenoir-Rhyne College, Hickory, NC

You filthy money-grubbing, rich capitalist pigs driving fast sports cars and
gas-guzzling automobiles, polluting the air with the nauseating stench of ex
haust, creating acid rain, and melting a gaping hole in the ever-diminishing
ozone layer...it's all your fault this world is so f--ked up!!! If everybody
got rid of their automobiles, we'd have a much nicer environment to leave to 
our children!!!! 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Skinny Puppy <htunca@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Need Info - T-Bird SC...
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Organization: ncsa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:06:00 GMT

Need Info - T-Bird SC...____________________         __          
____________________
\_____________      \       /_ \         /      _____________/ 
 \_____________      \_______/  \_______/      _____________/
  \_________________________      _________________________/ 
                           /______\
   Han Tunca
   National Center for Supercomputing Applications
   htunca@ncsa.uiuc.edu
From: v368ucgd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (TOM STEEGMANN)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 300zx better than the L88? NOT!
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	In reply to the poster who didnt seem to think that a L88
vette couldnt "survive" over 100mph, the top speed for this model
was, in fact, 147 mph. This was done with bias ply tires. Try that in 
your 300zx. Also, I dont need a lecture on brake cooling. The aluminum
calipered L88 did just fine. It stopped from 80mph in 218 feet. The 
300zx turbo takes *gasp* 231 feet! So much for your new technology
argument. In fact, despite what you think, there has been very little
new technology in any car for the past 30 or 40 years. Turbo or
super charging? Nope, Mercedes did both in the 30's. All wheel drive?
I guess if you dont count 50 
	I think that you get my point. 

Tom
'
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Need Info - T-Bird SC...
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:22:44 GMT

rrosen@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Randy Rosenberg) writes:


>I'm in the market for a new T-Bird SC, and I'll probably wait until
>the '93s are available.  Do any of you have any experience with this
>style of T-Bird ('90, '91, & '92)?  I want to know whether you like
>it, any problems, what to look (or look out) for, what options to
>get (or avoid).  Ya' know, I just want input!

>Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>Thanks,
>Randy

EVERYONE I know who has an SC bitches about it...either the trans. is
crappy, the car had too much body roll, etc etc..not to mention that
the dash is disgusting....(hey..its ford). If you want a 2 door
sports car w/ 4 seats <4 reals seats..not like the 300ZX> get
a Lumina Z34 or Grand Prix GTP...both these cars have a wonderful
engine..the new 3.4 Twin Dual Cam...and both have REAL ROOM
in back....the GTP is more like a fighterjet with its cockpit <hey
Pontiac is great at that..I love it> and the Z34 is a bit more sedate
and MUCH CHEAPER. Both cars look MEAN as hell from the out side
and at any angle..and neither look like their 'civilian' counterparts.
--
==============================  *  Marshal Perlman               * DO
=-> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu <-=  *  Huntington Beach, California  * NOT
==============================  *  (Surf City, U.S.A)            * EAT
"It's the greenhouse effect, officer. That's why I am not wearing pants."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght)
Subject: U-Joints, effects of ignoring?
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:22:30 GMT

Got a quesiton...
Recently my 74 caddilac has developed a severe squeek in the u-joint.
It needs to be replaced.  Is this too difficult to do in an apartment
parking lot with car up on ramps?  How time consuming is the job and
whst is involved?  What kind of time constrain am I looking at before I
absolutely can not drive the car, or is it too late already?  I
understand that it is possible for the drive shaft to fall from the car
if this is ignored.  How likely is this?  How long can I go before this
happens?  If I ignore the problem for a week or two or more am I risking
damage to other parts of the car as well?
  
Jim
From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Sentra SE-R VS. Saturn SL2 (was re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL)
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:12:46 GMT
Organization: Waldo  Fudpucker's  Flea  Circus

ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm) writes:
> 
> Acctually you should compare the Nissan Sentra SE-R and
> the Saturn SC Coupe (2-door)


  I agree.  The SE-R and Saturn SC make a great comparison.  The numbers
  are very close all around.  I looked closely at each and I just didn't
  like the SC. I bought an SE-R and think its the greatest thing since
  2-ply toilet paper.


> Jeff
> Who would love to have a Sentra GXE 4-door, with SE-R engine
> tires and suspension.

  I agree (almost).  Although the SE-R has dual power mirrors and
  available power sunroof, I don't understand why they didn't go for the
  sport/luxury market by adding power locks/windows to the SE-R.
  I, myself am more than happy with 2 doors.
From: yhmok@balaey.mips.com (Yeuk-Hai -Shark- Mok)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: SATURN PRICE INCREASE
Date: 23 Jul 1992 02:36:59 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: balaey.mips.com

In article <1992Jul23.015134.10059@u.washington.edu>, hustler@milton.u.washington.edu (Donald Heisler) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul22.213309.16875@wpi.WPI.EDU>, beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:
|> > 
|> > Saturn announced a 9+% price increase for the '93 model year
|> > 
|> > any surprises>>>>>
|> > 
|> 
|> Not realy considering that air bags are now standard in all models!
|> 
|> So take a 10,000 dollar car and add 900 dollars to the price.  Then take off
|> around 650 for the air bag and whamo, wow, woo, wa, only a $250 dollar increase.
|> I'm no to surprised although some might not want this standard air bag.
|> 
|> Don (I'm changing my middle name to SL2) Heisler
|> 
	How much is a Saturn now?  I heard the SC is about $15,000 (with AT,
ABS maybe?).  Is that true? 

	Shark at SGI
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sykes@donner.uucp (25816-sykes)
Subject: Re: IT'S YOUR FAULT!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:58:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.174231.160@lrc.edu>, blosser_cy@lrc.edu writes:
> You filthy money-grubbing, rich capitalist pigs driving fast sports cars and
> gas-guzzling automobiles, polluting the air with the nauseating stench of ex
> haust, creating acid rain, and melting a gaping hole in the ever-diminishing
> ozone layer...it's all your fault this world is so f--ked up!!! If everybody
> got rid of their automobiles, we'd have a much nicer environment to leave to 
> our children!!!! 

This has got to be a joke!!!
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Porsche 914--opinions anyone?
Date: 21 Jul 1992 16:52:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <135180002@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, by cba@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Brian Abernathy):
> The engine, according to my information, started life off as the same basic
> block as the 411 transporter (that particular beast was a midengine STATION
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^
                                                            rear
> WAGON from VW).  The power plant was bored and stroked, and dropped into 
> a new body.  The 914 was sold in Porsche dealerships, EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA,
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> where they were sold by VW dealers, to avoid the stricter pollution laws
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Nope, Porsche dealers sold them here, too.  And the pollution laws did
> that applied to "sports" cars.  If you ask nicely, most 914 owners will show
  not and do not distinguish "sports" cars from others.
> you the sticker on the fuel tank which identifies the car as a "VW PORSCHE".
> (At least, mine still has that sticker).

Chris Prael
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.motorcycles,rec.autos.tech
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 09:09:29 -0400 
From: David James Madden <dm4f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ++WHAT ARE BEST OILS FOR CAR/BIKE??++
Distribution: na

I feel I must intervene here fellows.  What everyone concerned seems to
be missing is a simple quality in motor oil called viscosity.  Viscosity
is an oils resistance to flow, i.e. 10w30 is thinner and flows more
freely than say a 20w50 would.  This is why many knowledgable people
change their oil seasonally using slightly different grades. 


Now... on to motorcycles.  Your clutch, as with nearly all motorcycle
clutches is a wet type multi-plate design.  This system relies on oil to
hold its many plates together, in much the same way a drinking glass on
a flat glass surface will seem to stick if some liquid is under it.  Its
actually very simple fluid mechanics.  Your best bet is to have a look
at your clutch before trying oil remedies, and keeping with the
manufacturers suggested oils.

By the way, Quaker State may do fine in some cars, but with a
motorcycles higher rpm's, and wet clutch, it has a tendency to foam and
sooner or later, this will cost you.

Mcnx
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: Non CFC Air Conditioning
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:04:09 GMT

In article <51300028@hpscit.sc.hp.com> gw@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Wilson) writes:
>  I can still remember a popular science article (must have been several
>years ago) that had a car air conditioner that used no refrigerant.
>It would compress the outside are, extract the heat, then pipe the
>resulting cold air into the car.  The only problem was the muffler
>required to silence the noise from the air pump.  They said it would
>be available in a few years.  Has anyone heard about cars that use this
>technology?

ROVAC was the name of the company and the system.  It used a rotary
compressor.  This was more than "a few years ago" it was in the mid
70's.  I bought stock in the company, watched it triple in a few
months, sold half and then watched it fade into nothing as the
company eventually went bankrupt..

Too bad, because it is an idea whose time has come..



-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
From: sudeep@arc.UUCP (Sudeep Sharma)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: M5 vs. Sports Cars
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:53:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advansoft Research Corp, Santa Clara, CA


 
 Oh! the Stealth/3000GT (even the VR-4) are slower than the 300ZXTT,
 so forget them.

 As far brakes and handling is concerned, and the "sporty" feeling,
 I tend to agree with you. But I think my response was for a person
 looking for high performance luxury cars.

 Sean.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jkaegi@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (John Kaegi)
Subject: Looking for info on 93 Integras
Keywords: When are they due out?
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:07:30 GMT

	I was planning on buying a 92 but I know that the 93 Hondas
are due out soon.  I've looked in car mags and can't find any info on
them.  I'm looking at a 92 LS with auto and air but if the 93's are
a new design I'll probably wait to see what they have to offer.
thanks,
	John
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Magnum PI
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:38:02 GMT

Heh...I was just watching Magnum PI..and Higgens was out front
working on his flowers when Magnum comes flying in the gates
in the Ferrari..and slams on the breaks right where Higgens was
working...and higgens said in his calm voice: "You, by chance, aren't
realated to the mechanic...we just had the breaks done a few weeks ago"...

Hehehehe..I just though it was funny..
--
==============================  *  Marshal Perlman               * DO
=-> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu <-=  *  Huntington Beach, California  * NOT
==============================  *  (Surf City, U.S.A)            * EAT
___ANYONE UNDER 18 IS A MINER___
Xref: sparky rec.autos:18315 alt.autos.antique:1449
From: mrm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Mark Muirhead .moo!.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,alt.autos.antique
Subject: The P6 Rover in the US
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:08:17 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia


For the curious, the P6 was put out by Rover from the mid '60s
through to the late '70s, in a 4 and 8 cylinder form.  The 8 is
referred to as the P6B (B for Buick, the original source for the V8).

Anyway, do they still exist over there?  

What I was looking for (I seem to be saying this a lot lately), was an
air conditioning unit out of one.  All models (of the P6B) sent to the 
'States had an integrated air conditioner, something we didn't get
down here, even though it gets just as hot.  I'm sick and tired of 
maiming passengers on an under the dash A/C which doesn't work properly
anyway.  Do people know of any, or is this where a copy of "Hemmings"
would come in handy?

Thanks in advance,

Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: smoriya@synoptics.com (Stanley Moriya)
Subject: 1985 Toyota Van For Sale
Reply-To: smoriya@synoptics.com
Organization: Synoptics Inc. Santa Clara, California.
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:43:04 GMT


* * * * * *  FOR  SALE  * * * * * *

	1985 Toyota Van
	Silver Metallic LE Model w/blue interior
	Automatic Transmission
	Dual Air
	Cruise Control
	Electric side mirrors
	Electric door locks
	AM/FM Cassette Deck w/4 speakers
	Mileage: 146K miles
	
	$4500/offer

	I am the original owner.  It is in excellent
	condition inside and out.  The miles are mostly freeway
	miles in and around town.  This is an extremely
	reliable car, but my family has outgrown it.  All
	servicing has been done by Toyota dealers and oil changed
	by me every 3-5k miles.

	Stan Moriya (408) 257-0248
	e-mail smoriya@synoptics.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos