HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: densond@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Dave Denson)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Free Usenet Access in Oregon
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:14:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <1gjajgINN82n@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> aj@ucs.orst.edu (AJ) writes:
>In article <06FVBAB2@cc.swarthmore.edu> jpaulso1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Justin Gram Paulson) writes:
>>bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
>>>  I am especially interested in knowing if Eugene or Corvallis
>>>  have free or very cheap bbs for Usenet.
>>>  thanks.  
>>>  mike
>>
>>Don't know about BBSs, but if all you want is e-mail and Usenet just get an
>>account on Oregon State's public access mainframes (in Corvallis, that is).
>>$5/month.
>
>Keep in mind, you need to live in Linn/Benton County to get an account.

Hi aj--I think that when they started charging they opened it up to the world.
I'm pretty sure of this, although this decision was made after I left...

>-aj

Dave
-- 
------ Dave Denson                      (Preferred:  densond@storm.cs.orst.edu)
Computer Sciences Corporation                       (densond@heart.cor.epa.gov)
US EPA Corvallis Environmental Research Lab
The above opinions are by no means whatsoever endorsed by US EPA, CSC, or OSU.
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:38:06 GMT
Subject: Re: am I suited for Oregon???
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon

Whoops!  sorry young Susannah!    

If they don't like you the rest of us do!

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: PDX/Corvallis doctoral programs (was Re: Oregon Questions)
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:46:11 GMT

In article <1gost4INNom6@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec16.134555.3567@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> stephas@dgp.toronto.edu (Tamara Stephas) writes:
> >
> >Salem is less than an hour's drive from Corvallis.  Willamette offers M.B.A.
> >and J.D. degrees.  The law degree is their only doctoral program.
> >
>  Does Willamette offer a joint J.D./M.B.A. program?  I am fairly sure
> that I will be returning to Oregon to get my law degree, and I would be
> interested in a joint degree program.... While we are on the subject,
> would anyone in the know (lawyers, judges, ???) care to comment on the
> quality of the various law schools in Oregon?
> -- 
>    ______________________________________________________
>    | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
>    | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
>    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 

Unless things have changed since I was last in Oregon, University of Oregon
has the best if not the only law school in the state while Oregon State
University has the best College of Business.  This makes a joint J.D./M.B.A.
program not likely from any of those two universities.  Portland State Un.
or one of the private schools might offer one but a College Directory at
the Yale library would be able to tell you that if no one else responds on
this group.

Don Palmrose




========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
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United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Joy is....
Date: 20 Dec 1992 23:45:26 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Travis Stansbury (stansbury-travis@yale.edu) wrote:
: Joy is finishing the semester and going home to Oregon!  You can't
: believe the stupid grin that refuses to leave my face this time every
: year - the time when I pack up my suitcase, triple-check my plane
: reservations, and go to sleep knowing that tomorrow I will be landing in
: Eugene...  YES!  Nothing matches the feeling of coming home to the best
: state in entire damned country.  Amen.

: -- 
:    ______________________________________________________
:    | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
:    | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
:    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please, don't rub it in.  I want to be out of Michigan and back in Oregon!
Maybe if I put on my emerald slippers....There's no place like home.

Karen
From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Free Usenet Access in Oregon
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:23:56 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

In article <06FVBAB2@cc.swarthmore.edu> jpaulso1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Justin Gram Paulson) writes:
~ bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
~ >  I am especially interested in knowing if Eugene or Corvallis
~ >  have free or very cheap bbs for Usenet.
~ >  thanks.  
~ >  mike
~ 
~ Don't know about BBSs, but if all you want is e-mail and Usenet just get an
~ account on Oregon State's public access mainframes (in Corvallis, that is).
~ $5/month.

How about for Portland?  Isn't the "agora" system (or something like that)
public access?  Anyone have phone numbers for these systems? 

I know my folks (in Gaston) would love to get email and the Net, but 
probably wouldn't want to pay long distance fees to Corvallis.

--
              Mike Sellers      User Interface Team Leader
           mike@isgtec.com      ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
              "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.
                         Furare tantum ab Optimis
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: ph0616@u.cc.utah.edu (Prometheus Hawthorne-Jones/Computer Science)
Subject: X-Ray Cafe Doomed?
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 12:16:57 GMT

	Rumor has it that the X-Ray Cafe is going to have to stop having
shows, at least loud music shows. What I heard is that the building it is
has been sold and will be renovated, and the new owner is cracking down.
	Is this horrible rumor true? What will Ben and Trez do? Luke?

	Theus (ph0616@u.cc.utah.edu)

	P.S. How many votes did Trez get in his Portland mayoral bid?
From: joe@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joe St Sauver x6-1720)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: PDX/Corvallis doctoral programs (was Re: Oregon Questions)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 15:47:45 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: darkwing.uoregon.edu

In article <1gost4INNom6@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec16.134555.3567@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> stephas@dgp.toronto.edu (Tamara Stephas) writes:
|> >
|> >Salem is less than an hour's drive from Corvallis.  Willamette offers M.B.A.
|> >and J.D. degrees.  The law degree is their only doctoral program.
|> >
|>  Does Willamette offer a joint J.D./M.B.A. program?  I am fairly sure
|> that I will be returning to Oregon to get my law degree, and I would be
|> interested in a joint degree program.... While we are on the subject,
|> would anyone in the know (lawyers, judges, ???) care to comment on the
|> quality of the various law schools in Oregon?

If you're willing to go a little further south, the U of O in Eugene might
work out for a joint degree program. Specifically...

The University of Oregon offers a joint MBA/JD program -- if you have
specific questions about the U of O law school or the fit between law and
business, feel free to send them to me via e-mail and I'll pass them along
to my wife -- she got her JD from the U of O, and has an MBA from Alaska,
so she is well situated to address the concerns you may have, if Eugene is
within your geographic area of interest.

Regards,

Joe St Sauver (joe@oregon.uoregon.edu)
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Free Usenet Access in Oregon
Date: 13 Dec 1992 12:50:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   I am interested in finding out if there are any free access
 bbs systems in Oregon which offer the major newsgroups plus
 e mail and where they are located.

 I have heard of one called  PDaXs with phone 503-220-0636
 and would like to know what city this is located in.
 I am especially interested in knowing if Eugene or Corvallis
 have free or very cheap bbs for Usenet.
 thanks.  
 mike

 
-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: PDX/Corvallis doctoral programs (was Re: Oregon Questions)
Followup-To: alt.culture.oregon
Date: 18 Dec 1992 02:29:17 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fp1-dialin-4.uoregon.edu

In article <1992Dec17.172119.1816@sequent.com>, coryc@sequent.com (Cory
Carpenter) wrote:
> I was recently told that U of O is in danger of losing or has already
> lost accreditation for its law program.  Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> -coryc
> 

Like Mark Twain's death, the difficulties of the law school at U of O have
been greatly exaggerated. What really happened in my opinon was a game of
chicken between the law school and the university where the former used the
accreditation people (probably with their encourage ment) to pressure the
latter to fund the program adequately.  Everything is cool now though at
the cost of some reductions in admissions to bring the faculty/student
ratio in line.  That means it will be harder to get in.

The current head of the Law School is Dave Frohnmayer, former Attorney
General, and would-have-been governor if he had kissed the right wing's
ass. His brother was the one the yahoos got canned as head of the NEA. I
don't think you have to worry about the future of the program.

Some of the comments I have seen here comparing the various programs in the
state sound  to me like the product of snobism and the notion that a public
school can't possibly be as good as a private law school. It may very well
be that if your intention is to get a cushy job with some old school types
you are better off at Willamette, but I wonder whether the quality of the
education you will get reflects the difference in cost.  Perhaps someone in
the know will quote some objective ratings.

Rich Haller <rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu>
University of Oregon, Eugene, OR USA
Xref: sparky alt.lwaxana-troi.die.die.die:62 alt.superman.dead:3 alt.tv.dinosaurs:468 alt.tv.mst3k:3701 alt.tv.muppets:1808 alt.tv.prisoner:1876 alt.tv.red-dwarf:1963 alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy:4590 alt.tv.simpsons:7311 alt.tv.simpsons.itchy-scratchy:314
From: cn577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine)
Newsgroups: alt.lwaxana-troi.die.die.die,alt.superman.dead,alt.tv.dinosaurs,alt.tv.mst3k,alt.tv.muppets,alt.tv.prisoner,alt.tv.red-dwarf,alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy,alt.tv.simpsons,alt.tv.simpsons.itchy-scratchy
Subject: Where to find CYBERSPACE VANGUARD
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:17:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cn577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu



The preview issue of CYBERSPACE VANGUARD:  News and Views of the
Science Fiction Universe has been posted in the following newsgroups:

alt.cult-movies
alt.cyberpunk
alt.fandom.misc
alt.horror
alt.vampyres
alt.zines
rec.arts.sf.misc
rec.arts.sf.announce
rec.arts.anime
rec.arts.misc
rec.misc
rec.mag
misc.misc

If you would like to recieve the magazine but your site doesn't
subscribe to any of these groups, just let us know and we'll
w-mail you a copy.  (Putting your request in the subject line
will get faster service.)


-- 
                     CYBERSPACE VANGUARD MAGAZINE
           News and Views from the Science Fiction Universe
TJ Goldstein, Editor      |   Send submissions, questions, comments to
  tlg4@po.cwru.edu        |         cn577@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: Digital Transmission Systems, Duluth, GA.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:54:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.172057.6793@borland.com> pete@borland.com (Pete Becker) writes:
>	That's certainly true, but I don't think it's a good thing.  It seems
>to me that the important factor in using a container is understanding its
>behavior.  A Queue and a Stack differ significantly, in that a Queue is
>FIFO and a Stack is LIFO. You pick which one to use based on what your
>current program requires.  Replacing a Queue with a Stack will change the
>behavior of the program.  So I don't want them to have the same interface.

By coincidence, I am working on a list-management module, that includes
Lists, Queues, Stacks, and several other types.

I am using a linked-list as the base structure, with auxiliary pointers to
allow circular access, size limits, etc.  To make the list a Stack, I
simply do this:

#define Push(list,element) AddElementToEnd(list,element)
#define Pop(list) RemoveElementFromEnd(list)

where AddElement... and RemoveElement... are generic linked-list functions.

For a Queue, I do this:

#define Enqueue(list,element) AddElementToEnd(list,element)
#define Dequeue(list) RemoveElementFromFront(list)

Thus, they have the 'same' interface, in the generic functions, using the same
data structure(s), and if I decide that the program need a queue instead of
a stack, all I need to do is change the Push() calls to Enqueue() calls, and
so on.

If I need a fixed-size container, mimicking an array, I have functions to
treat a linked-list as a fixed length container, with all the same data
structures, and minimal changes need to be made to the surrounding code
to dal with the possible error conditions that a fixed size container will
cause over a dynamic one.

-- 
Pete Hardie:  phardie@nastar  (voice) (404) 497-0101
Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA
Member, DTS Dart Team           |  cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" 
Position:  Goalie               |
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:35:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.141331.23325@ucc.su.OZ.AU> maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller) writes:
> In article <rmartin.724084666@ctbu> rmartin@ctbu.Rational.COM (Bob Martin) writes:
> >peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> >|Personally, I think object-oriented languages are a distraction from the real
> >|goal of good software component design.

> >I disagree.  Granted that some people are distracted!  Somem engineers
> >think they will write better programs just because they are using an
> >OO language.

Yes, that's my point. It's a distraction. It's not in the slightest bit harder
to write Fortran or Basic programs in C++ or Smalltalk than it is to write
them in C or Pascal.

> 	No, it is not. Many programmers *will* write better code
> when constrained by, say, strong typing in C++, or mandatory
> class orientation as in Eiffel.

I think you're looking at a marginal effect. I've never seen any indication
that any programmer who needs to use these tools as crutches is going to be
able to do a competant job of software design in the first place.

You still need someone good to design the system, whether or not they're doing
the coding, and object oriented languages can all too easily become a
distraction... not for the competant, but for their managers who refuse
to spent the money on design because "we're using OO languages".

Object oriented languages, structured languages, strong typing, all these
things are good. But they're neither necessary nor sufficient for good
design and implementation of a software system.
-- 
%Peter da Silva/77487-5012 USA/+1 713 274 5180/Have you hugged your wolf today?
/L{lineto}def/C{curveto}def/F{0 562 moveto 180 576 324 648 396 736 C 432 736 L
482 670 518 634 612 612 C}def/G{setgray}def .75 G F 612 792 L 0 792 L fill 1 G
324 720 24 0 360 arc fill 0 G 3 setlinewidth F stroke showpage % "Peerless"
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc
From: ronda@ais.org (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 18:38:53 EST
Organization: UMCC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

[ Article crossposted from news.misc,comp.bbs.misc,alt.culture.usenet ]
[ Author was Fuzzy Fox ]
[ Posted on Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:20:25 GMT ]

I'm not sure, but perhaps the article writer intended to show that the
_discussion_ which takes place in a newsgroup is democratic, and not the
actual newsgroup creation process.  After all, the discussion that will
take place in a newsgroup is based on what the majority of the people
want to talk about.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |  "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif             |     the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:16:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.200131.20598@rchland.ibm.com> lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:
> In article <id.S2UV.VMK@ferranti.com>, peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> |> I don't buy that argument. A well designed OO language can sure make it
> |> easier, but it's no more necessary than a structured language is necessary
> |> for structured programming.

> Oh?  Have you really looked at it?  Maybe it is easy to do it in C, but I can
> think of lots of languages out there that people still use that would make it
> darn near impossible to do decently.

Well, yes. I certainly agree that there are languages that make object
oriented programming damned hard. There are languages that make structured
programming damned hard, too. Quality of language design varies widely, and
C for all its faults is by no means the worst.

> In particular, what about overloaded functions (ie, methods with multiple
> signatures)?

You can create an opaque type with a calling mechanism that hides the
details. You are likely to end up with a program that looks pretty much
like it was written in lisp, but it's possible.

#include "classes.h"
#include "point.class"

	OBJECT bar, baz;

	assign(bar, POINT(10, 20));

	assign(baz, LINE(bar, POINT(15, 25)));

Generally, you take the stock types for granted and do a lot of memory
manglement by hand. Not as much as you might expect, though, since all
the memory you're managing is tagged and can be garbage collected.

Alternatively, you look for the important objects in the language, and
define operators that work with those. You have opaque types for symbol
tables, and graphic objects, and leave the rest in the language of choice.

> There are many things that are possible, but they are also neither necessary
> nor prudent, except in exceptional circumstances (mainly, the unavailability
> of a suitable compiler).

Unfortunately, those aren't "exceptional" circumstances. There are object
oriented languages I'd like to use for most of my work (no, C++ isn't one
of them) but they're not available.

> I remember some very brief experiments to permit "structured" assembly 
> language programming and the like.

I really see C++ as such an experiment. I know a lot of people are are quite
excited about it, but it's too tied to C to really make the sort of language
I want to use long term. Another analogy I use is Ratfor, and structured
Basics. Hell, Microsoft is still pushing structured Basic for Windows. It's
going to be around a long time, but it's too unweildy to become a language
of choice once better languages are generally available.

Yes, the tool set does matter. I'm not prepared to become an expert in the
use of the powered buggy-whip.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:31:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.201954.10831@rchland.ibm.com> lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:
> I agree.  But, that's mostly a learning curve discussion, which is a one or
> two project cost.  Once mastered, it can't be a distraction any more than any
> other formerly new idea is.

I don't know... I've been involved with too many projects that ended up mired
in the mud to become convinced that the "silver bullet" problem will ever go
away. I'm still seing structured design being abused like that, and it's hardly
new. I don't know what it's going to take to break this cycle, but I don't
think object oriented *languages* are necessarily going to help.

You compare object oriented languages and structured languages, and consider
both practical necessities. I disagree in both cases. They're highly
desirable, but in the face of external requirements (like, you don't have
a structured language available with good numeric support, so you use
Fortran) I wouldn't hesitate to abandon either.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
From: ronda@ais.org (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 18:41:20 EST
Organization: UMCC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

[ Article crossposted from news.misc,comp.bbs.misc,alt.culture.usenet ]
[ Author was Chip Salzenberg ]
[ Posted on Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:37:28 GMT ]

According to fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox):
>I'm not sure, but perhaps the article writer intended to show that the
>_discussion_ which takes place in a newsgroup is democratic...

Nonsense.  Discussion cannot be democratic, in which _decision-making_
and _control_ are excecised based on majority vote.  No discussion can
either make a decision or control anything.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagles to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc