From: akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom)
Subject: Re: The Harlot
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University
	<LAURAF.92Jul16083746@wolf.eecs.umich.edu> 
	<l6b7l6INNg1f@news.bbn.com> 
	<1992Jul20.195500.28494@portland.mdc.unisys.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 04:43:42 GMT

tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht) writes:

>ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) writes:

>>Much that occurs in Revelations is, of course, symbolic.  But on occassion
>>it spells out its meaning, as it does here: The Harlot is herself symbolic
>>of a city.

>>...and the most likely interpretation is that the writer(s) of Revelation
>>were refering to Rome.

More than "most likely."  There's no reasonable doubt that the harlot
is the city of Rome.  Revelation 17:3 says she was sitting on a beast
with "seven heads and ten horns."  17:9 says "the seven heads are
seven mountains."  Rome was famous for having been built on seven
hills, and any person at that time hearing of a city with seven hills
(or mountains) would immediately think of Rome.  The woman also has
written on her forehead "Babylon the great." (17:5).  Babylon was the
city that destroyed the First Temple in 586 B.C., just as Rome
destroyed the Second Temple in 70 A.D.; so Rome is the second Babylon.
Revelation 17:4 says "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and
bedecked with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden
cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication."  This
is clearly indicative of wealth and power (purple, even then, was the
"royal" color) and therefore of Rome.  The woman is "the great city
which has dominion over the kings of the earth" (17:18).  No city
could match that description except Rome.  And so on.  There are
plenty of other indications in chapters 17-19 that Rome is the city
referred to.

>Close, but no cigar.

Not close:  exactly right.

>  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood,
>  saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that
>  worship therein....
>  (Rev. 11:1,2,8)

Yes, the city in Rev. 11 *is* Jerusalem.  But it's not the same city
as in Rev. 17.  And it's not called the harlot.  Or Babylon.

>  And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen,
>  that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the
>  wrath of her fornication. (Rev. 14:8)

Babylon is Rome.  This passage is completely separate from Ch. 11 and
does not refer to the same city.  

>  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over
>  the kings of the earth.  (Rev. 17:18)

Which, as mentioned above, could only be Rome.  At *no* time, past,
present, or future, was Jerusalem ever ruler over the kings of the
earth.

>The "great city," according to Revelation, is Jerusalem (cf. Jeremiah
>22:8).  

Which is irrelevant.  There can be more than one "great city."

>Because of its gross sin and pagan worship, it is called spiritual
>Sodom and Egypt.  Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem, not Rome.  

That's true, Jerusalem *is* called Sodom and Egypt.  But it is *not*
called Babylon.  Revelation 11 and 17 are talking about two different
cities.

>The "harlot"
>represent unbelieving Judaism (cf Isaiah 1:21; Ezekiel 16).

In Isaiah and Ezekiel, yes.  Not in Revelation.

>Symbolically, the "great city" of earthly Jerusalem, the spiritual harlot
>who fornicated with pagan Rome, is contrasted with the new Jerusalem which
>comes down from heaven (Rev. 3:12; 21:2ff).

There is no such contrast made in either of those two passages.

If you want to deny that the harlot is Rome, you must explain away 
the connection to Babylon, the seven heads = seven mountains (a dead
giveaway for Rome) and the part about the dominion over the kings of
the earth, at the very least.  None of those fit Jerusalem in the
least.  They all fit Rome perfectly.

By the way: Revelation was talking about the ancient city of Rome.  It
has nothing to do with modern Rome, or with the Roman Catholic Church.
Any such comparison is as idiotic as it is slanderous.


Keith